# Blood, Sweat & Tears in Electronic Music



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'll start things off by pasting an excerpt of a post by millionrainbows from another thread:

*For me... Stockhausen... I think he had the greater desire to communicate.*

*Stockhausen is much, much more tuned-in to the human aspect of music. He has made studies of how we perceive time, and has incorporated the act of listening into his works as an integral element. His article in Die Reihe called "How Time Passes..." was pioneering in this regard. ... Stockhausen was a major influence into the nature of sound, spectral analysis, and electronic sound. He also used human ideas such as "intuition" and built-in "empathetic listening and reacting" into the instructions to his musicians.*

OK, whether or not you're a Stockhausen fan, or you agree or disagree with millionraibows is besides the point. My point is, I just discovered Stockhausen's Oktophonie, and I think it's a great piece of electronic music that connects with me as a listener. And I want to discover more of this stuff by various composers. I'm looking for pieces that are generated electronically by machines, computers, whatever the technology, but that possess a musical and human quality. As opposed to blips and bleeps, or the sound of dripping water in a cavernous parking garage. Works that compel you to listen again and be moved.

Thanks for any suggestions!


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## sloth (Jul 12, 2013)

something like that, you mean?


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Purely electronic, or is a combination of electronic and acoustic elements allowed?


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Either way, _Trilogie de la mort_ and other works by Éliane Radigue are purely electronic; certainly musical; "human," I guess, if you're into that - in any case, certainly endowed with blood, sweat, and tears; and incidentally sound 100% not like Stockhausen:


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I wasn't sure what you meant by no bleeps and cavernous dripping, so I listened to parts of Oktophonie on YT. I hate to say it, though I really like it, it sounds an awful lot like Lustmord to me. So was Stockhausen just the first dark ambient performer? Or perhaps I'm missing something subtle. (Lustmord actually disturbs me a bit. I won't own any of his work. Don't want it in my house. I sort of like cavernous dripping)


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Those three pieces are not really what I'm looking for. Too static and drone like. I need something with a bit more happening.


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Keep listening. I solemnly swear, if you listen to the first movement from beginning to end, you'll become sufficiently acclimated to its idiom that a passage in the middle will sound as turbulent as the storm from Beethoven's _Pastorale_.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Weston said:


> So was Stockhausen just the first dark ambient performer? Or perhaps I'm missing something subtle.


I didn't find the Stockhausen piece to be dark or ambient. The Lustmord piece is ok, but not very original sounding. I suppose there's the 90 percent cliche and derivitive dreck I'll have to wade through to find the interesting and inventive stuff.


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm mad at Stockhausen for having beaten Brian Eno to some of the effects on _Another Green World_. God only knows how poor Lustmord will sound in a comparison. Maybe I'll find out later tonight.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

My next stab would be Wendy Carlos' microtonal Beauty in the Beast, but you've probably already heard it. Nothing but very short samples available in either event, only available at highway robbery prices. 

Edit: Never mind. In re-listening to the samples I see I have grown beyond it somewhat from when I first heard it.


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

I find those Wendy Carlos samples charming.

re: earlier entries - As expected, the Lustmord did little for me. But I'm now listening to _Oktophonie_ - or maybe relistening; I'm pretty sure I've heard it before, but if so, I remembered literally nothing - and I have to say, I'm not feeling it. Maybe I'll change my mind later, but right now it sounds like a superficially more dramatic, basically much thinner version of his electronic music of the '50s and '60s. And this just when I'd decided that "Lichter/Wasser" was probably good enough to suggest that the old man never lost it, and that I really needed to get serious about absorbing his later work. Well, maybe he just lost interest in purely electronic music.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Oktophonie to me just sounds like a bunch or weird noises and sounds that would find their place at home in a sci-fi/horror film. It's fun to listen through one time but it's not anything I would listen to on a regular basis, or ever again for that matter. 

As for Lustmord I do think much of his soundscapes are dark and can be disturbing. If his recordings are a reflection of who he is you have to wonder what kind of monster lies within his bosom?

Kevin


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

The key words above are "desire to communicate". I think this was true with Stockhausen. I also think this was true and is still true for many composers - the urge to communicate but the message and means are obviously different by period, genre and composer's idiom in general.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2016)

I can't imagine Oktophonie in a horror movie :lol:


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> The key words above are "desire to communicate". I think this was true with Stockhausen. I also think this was true and is still true for many composers - the urge to communicate but the message and means are obviously different by period, genre and composer's idiom in general.


ArtMusic- I very much agree. Quite a mature perspective you brought up. I also think that all composers try to communicate, but in different idioms and musical structures.

Starthrower- a few suggestions.

Xenakis- La lengende de'er 



Varese- Deserts with Electronic Interpolations 



Ferrari- L'Escalier 



Cage- Imaginary Landscapes 



 (listening to the entire playlist, about an hour long, as an episodic narrative works best)
Parmegiani- De Natura Sonorum 



Berio- Visage 



Risset- Sud 



Dhomont- Frankenstein Symphony 



 



 



 (This is a four movement work that electronically samples and modifies orchestral sounds. I've linked three of the movements. You'll have to buy it if you want to hear the last movement, it's not on youtube as far as I know.)
Dufour- Bazar Punaise 



Merzbow- Merzzow 



 (I don't like all Merzbow, but I think this album stands out as a very good one. Merzbow's 1930 and Hybrid Noisebloom are good choices as well if you like this one. Not for everyone, but I'm slowly warming up.)
Schumacher- El Espejo de Alicia 



Marchetti and Noetinger- Paris 




^ I rate all of these very highly.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Harold in Columbia said:


> I'm mad at Stockhausen for having beaten Brian Eno to some of the effects on _Another Green World_. God only knows how poor Lustmord will sound in a comparison. Maybe I'll find out later tonight.


If you're that biased you'd best not listen to any of it. Lustmord's style doesn't have anything to do with Stockhausen or other avantgarde electronic composers so there is no comparison.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Lustmord is a non-classical or popular artist. Sorry I brought him up. It was only for the similarity of having long droning "pad" patches as they are called in the world of synths with lots and lots of chorusing and reverb to create space.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

not a classical composer, but there's a magnificent album called Plux quba, released in 1988 by Nuno Canavarro that I've always considered the "human side" of electronic music (besides being one of my favorite albums ever), with a organic and playful sound (and some distant quiet voices in the background that add a subliminal quality to the music). 
The thing is that while Oktophonie is a long piece Plux quba is a collection of miniatures.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

*Francis Dhomont* is your man, then:

Lettre de Sarajevo

Je te salue, vieil océan!

(and, of course, the FS mentioned by Septimal)

I remember a Richannes trademark critique on the lines of "great... more lobotomy-inducing stuff" lol!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> ArtMusic- I very much agree. Quite a mature perspective you brought up. I also think that all composers try to communicate, but in different idioms and musical structures.
> 
> ....


Why thank you sir.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I abhor Stockhausen's piano stuff but I do enjoy some of the electronic music I've heard from him, including this piece.
I can only recommend tons of electronic music that is generally not associated with classical music (which doesn't automatically make it "popular" music, fortunately).


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

DeepR said:


> I abhor Stockhausen's piano stuff but I do enjoy some of the electronic music I've heard from him, including this piece.
> I can only recommend tons of electronic music that is generally not associated with classical music (which doesn't automatically make it "popular" music, fortunately).


I'd love to hear any recommendations. I've always loved electronic music but generally hate the inane thump thump thump thump of dance music. I love the works of Subotnik, Autechre, Bebe and Louis Barron, Carbon Based Lifeforms -- that sort of thing.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2016)

Weston said:


> I'd love to hear any recommendations. I've always loved electronic music but generally hate the inane thump thump thump thump of dance music. I love the works of Subotnik, Autechre, Bebe and Louis Barron, Carbon Based Lifeforms -- that sort of thing.


Klaus Schulze is WAY too obvious, right?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Once you've listened to Stockhausen and Xenakis, much else will sound tame and derivative. The only other electronic composer I can recommend (for now) is _Eduard Artemyev_. He scored a few of Tarkovsky's films, including _Stalker_. Artemyev's music certainly doesn't inhabit the same realm as the aforementioned composers' but it is enjoyable enough.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Klaus Schulze is WAY too obvious, right?


Schulze is fun!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Almost forgot about _Igor Wakhévitch_ and _Michel Chion_.

Wakhévitch






Chion


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

This recording of Kontakte combines human players with electronics, and Stockhausen is an active participant:

~

Electronic, with voices of children: The Song of the Youths

~


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

nathanb said:


> Klaus Schulze is WAY too obvious, right?


Well yes. I already have most of Tangerine Dream but none of his solo efforts. It never hurts to mention him however, may he rest in peace.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2016)

Weston said:


> Well yes. I already have most of Tangerine Dream but none of his solo efforts. It never hurts to mention him however, may he rest in peace.


Ah, well you need his solo stuff too! _Timewind_ and _Mirage_ are reasonable places to start.

Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf has a couple of excellent solo tape pieces among his five magnificent NEOS discs.

Claude Vivier's opera is not electronic, but certainly emphasizes his Stockhausen influence.

As others have already said, Xenakis, Ferrari, and Oliveros are pretty indispensable as peers of Stockhausen from the electronic side. Personally I listen to Francisco Lopez more than just about anyone else for solo electronic, but I wouldn't say he's similar to Stockhausen beyond writing large, sprawling pieces of intense sonic might.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I was hoping this had to do with the great band Blood, Sweat and Tears, but if they moved into electronic music then I guess it is as well I did not know it. I liked them as they were.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Weston said:


> Well yes. I already have most of Tangerine Dream but none of his solo efforts. It never hurts to mention him however, may he rest in peace.


Schulze is alive, you confused him with Edgar Froese. Schulze only participated on the first Tangerine Dream album before going solo. 
Schulze's catalogue is insanely large, it seems he simply releases everything he's ever done. I'd recommend sticking to the 1970s albums at first.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

So I did! 

Too many passing for me to keep up with lately.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

nathanb said:


> Personally I listen to Francisco Lopez more than just about anyone else for solo electronic


+1 for Lopez.

Aside from that for an intense listening experience pay special attention to the sounds used in many David lynch films. Especially _Eraserhead_ and _Fire walk With Me_.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

My problem with some of the music posted is that it sounds too dry and claustrophobic. I'm not transported anywhere. It sounds like a collage of seperate noises instead of a coherent soundscape.
Ok, I guess I'm ruined by the reverb in a lot of ambient music, but when it is applied well, it really does add a sense of depth, space and expansion. It takes me out there in the open, beyond the horizons, instead of feeling locked inside some cellar.
I'm curious, Starthrower, if you've found what you're looking for in a piece like this: 



because to me it seems to against your description.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Check out Jonathan Harvey's Mortuos Plango. Great work!


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