# Vivaldi operas - a bit repetitive?



## Pantheon (Jun 9, 2013)

For a while I have been collecting the Vivaldi editions by Naïve on CD and noticed that same or very similar arias come up in different operas! Only the lyrics are sometimes changed. What do you think ?

Take the example *"Io Sembro Appunto"*. This aria appears in at least 4 different operas such as Ercole Sul Termodonte, Ottone in Villa, Orlando Furioso (1714 version) and Teuzzone!

Not to mention *"Andero Chiamero dal Profondo"* in Orlando Furioso, *"Andero Volero Gridero"* in Orlando Finto Pazzo, *"Scendero Volero Gridero"* in Ercole and *"Si ribelle andero moriro"* in Teuzzone are the same...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Pretty standard fare in Baroque opera - use the same aria in different operas (not to mention pinching other people's). Handel is a bit inclined that way too.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

For someone with a schedule as Vivaldi had (not even Handel had one like him!), naturally some arias had to become similiar, even stolen from earlier operas.

But hey! That was baroque era.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

dionisio said:


> For someone with a schedule as Vivaldi had (not even Handel had one like him!), naturally some arias had to become similiar, even stolen from earlier operas.


yes, same deal with Rossini, another composer with a breakneck schedule (so it's not just Baroque). Shameless self-plagiarizing abounds! I play a game of spot the re-used aria with these composers.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I decided to explore Handel's Italian cantatas earlier this year and then found out I knew half of them already from the operas:lol:!


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ having not been familiar with Handel's cantatas, I popped the term into youtube. The first thing that came up was Apollo e Dafne. To my amusement, the cantata starts with a very recognizable earlier version of Bella sorge la speranza, goes through a couple more familiar things I failed to pinpoint then presents bits that will eventually make up Venti turbini and Vorrei vendicarmi! there's about 100 more cantatas to go through and see how other great arias developed


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## Pantheon (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you for your answers ! I remember listening to Vivaldi's Bajazet and realising that practically every aria is somebody else's.
I can imagine Vivaldi liked pasticcios... especially when confronted with a deadline.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Pretty standard fare in Baroque opera - use the same aria in different operas (not to mention pinching other people's). Handel is a bit inclined that way too.


True! Rameau reused themes from his harpsichord suites and chamber works in his operas. Porpora commonly recycled music from his secular cantatas into his operas, too.


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## Pantheon (Jun 9, 2013)

The funniest one of Vivaldi I ever came across was this one... does this sound just a bit too familiar to you?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ later greats weren't too proud either for a bit of rehashing  I wonder who actually wrote this, seeing as how it's part of a pasticcio.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Pantheon said:


> The funniest one of Vivaldi I ever came across was this one... does this sound just a bit too familiar to you?


He's got it in another opera too - just can't remember which one at the moment....

Never let a good tune go to waste.


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## leafman (Dec 21, 2014)

Vivaldi produced a lot of music and a lot of opera works. A few examples of cross pollination is no big deal. There's plenty of diversity of character in his themes and melodies.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Back then I don't think many of the opera-going public would have noticed anyway - unless they had phenomenal memories it's not as if they would have been sufficiently familiar with a current work to know whether any material was rehashed, especially as previous works would have disappeared once their run was over and the chances of hearing them again were remote.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

The trouble with Vivaldi is that he sounds formulaic and repetitive even when he's writing original material. Easily the most overrated "popular" composer in my book.


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## leafman (Dec 21, 2014)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> The trouble with Vivaldi is that he sounds formulaic and repetitive even when he's writing original material. Easily the most overrated "popular" composer in my book.


That sounds like a very boring book! lol

I disagree, as do many other music scholars.

However, it's personal tastes, as I have mentioned elsewhere. People's choice of art, music, women and food is very subjective. I cannot criticize anyone for their choices.

Vivaldi certainly had a style of his own. But, within that particular style is great diversity of passion and musical elements. Unlike many composers whose work changed over the time of their career, Vivaldi's basic style remained less varying over his very prodigious career.

As far as repetition in opera works, Vivaldi wrote a great number of opera pieces and hundreds of arias. Reprising some of those pieces and cross pollinating a few operas is not unusual. Many opera composers of the day (and later) did the same.

Hey, if you don't like it, turn it off and go to something else. Cue the elevator music! LOL Everybody has different tastes.

I like variety and that includes the work from Don Vivaldi.


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