# Where's the non opera Italiano after the Classical era?



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

If I look into this list, I see that the Italian composers stop competing in other genre outside the opera world post Classical era.

The last significant Italiano that famous for not being opera guy is... Paganini??

Post classical Italian composers Verdi, Puccini, Respighi all get their fame for Opera. Considering how Vivaldi, Scarlatti, Tartini, Viotti, Boccherini and Paganini done in the past seem odd that the region less interest in outside the opera genre.


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

There is Berio I guess.

Maybe Mozart's hatred of Italians (particularly Italian composers) had something to do with it.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

It's right there on the list you cite. There are over a dozen composers that I know of on that very short and selective list who made their name in something other than opera.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

Martucci
Casella
Sgambati
Busoni
All worthwhile composers, Martucci is especially neglected. I think that Martucci and Busoni composed operas, but they are not opera composers. Nor is Respighi an opera composer, although he composed at least one. Giuliani was a fine composer for the guitar. Pizzetti wrote a beautiful Requiem amongst other things. Castelnuovo-Tedesco's guitar works are on the fringe of the repertory. Bossi, Pick-Mangiagalli, the list goes on. And of more contemporary composers, Dallapiccolla, Nono, Berio, Maderna, Petrassi are not considered opera composers.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

But then seeing how Eastern Europe, the French, Uk, russian come out with all their strong name in symphony and chamber music, I found I very little see Italian composers there, in the era post Classical onward. I mean, in the past Italy have enough composers as the rest of Europe , but now they are less found, or at best neglected. None of names above recognized by me. See the Top 150 Symphonies thread, no Italian found ,yet.


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

I enjoy Respighi for his symphonic poems...


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

Well, one, that list is not at all comprehensive.

For two, many of those names are familiar to others of us.

I think you're right that Italian composers weren't well known for symphonic music in the nineteenth century, but some of the more prominent twentieth century composers of non-operatic music were from Italy.

Berio
Nono
Dallapiccola
Maderna
Sciarrino
Scodanibbio
Romitelli
Marchetti (Walter)
Scelsi
Sani
Busoni
Donatoni

(I went off the wiki list for some of these, you'll have noticed. Wiki only knows what it knows.)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't even know if Busoni can even be counted as being Italian, as he spent most of his life outside of Italy (in Germany, in particular, where he made a big impact as a teacher - Varese being amongst his students)...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

some guy said:


> ... more *prominent twentieth century composers *of non-operatic music were from Italy.
> 
> Scodanibbio


Prominence? I randomly picked a name from your list; actually, the most unusual sounding name, which was Scondanibbio.

*Stefano Scondanibbio*, currently active, appears to be a double bass soloist and composer.

Here is a piece of his, which I randomly picked, given that Scondanibbio appears to be a double bass soloist. To my ears, it is lacklustre piece, not quite sure what the music is trying to do and if the musician in the clip (perhaps the composer himself) was punishing the instrument or not. Weird.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

There are plenty of post-Classical Italian composers of non-operatic music is you care to look for them, some of them very fine indeed:

Luciano Berio (1925-2003)
Ferruccio Busoni (1866–1924)
Alfredo Casella (1883–1947)
Mario Castelnuovo-Tedescò (1895–1968)
Luigi Dallapiccola (1904–1975)
Giorgio Ghedini (1892–1965) 
Bruno Maderna (1920–1973)
Gian Francesco Malipiero (1882–1973)
Giuseppe Martucci (1856–1909)
Luigi Nono (1924–1990)
Goffredo Petrassi (1904–2003)
Ildebrando Pizzetti (1880–1968)
Ottorino Respighi (1879–1936)
Vittorio Rieti (1898–1994)
Nino Rota (1911–1979)
Giacinto Scelsi (1905–1988)
Giovanni Sgambati (1843–1914)


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

only Respighi's string quartet I got over that list, though I also have Verdi's excellent sole string quartet.

I also try to search "string quartet" on your first composer, Luciano Berio "Sincronie" for string quartet:





aaargh, why they do this on string quartet.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I actually found the Berio _Sincronie_ interesting and stimulating. I'm sure it is the sort of piece which rewards repeated listening. Be assured, the musical language in this piece is very moderate compared to some pieces in my collection!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

GF Malipiero wrote sixteen symphonies; they are all available on Naxos. Alfredo Casella's three symphonies have been revived in the past two years, with several recordings now available; check out this one:

*http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12314*

Both composers fell from favour after World War II because of alleged ties to the Mussolini regime.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Respighi wrote at least seven operas, a few of which have been recorded .
The best known. and an opera that definitely deserves to be performed more,is La Fiamma (The Flame), a strange and disturbing story of superstition and witchcraft in medieval Byzantine Italy. 
The late Lamberto Gardelli, who did so much to promote interesting obscure works by Italian composers, made a fine recording for Humgaroton with the orchestra and chorus of the Hungarian State opera and a mostly Hungarian cast. It may still be available, and I recommend it. La Fiamma would definitely be worth a Met production .
He also recorded Respighi's Belfagor(a comic opera), Semiranis (same story as Rossini's Semiramide) , but I have not heard these.I'd definitely like to.
Interestingly, all four of Busoni's operas are set to librettos in German by the composer. 
Doktor Faust is one of the greatest operas of the 20th century; a fascinating ,haunting and enigmatic work. If you haven't heard the recordings on DG and Erato, or seen the DVD from the Zurich opera, don't miss them.
Turandot is only loosely based on the story used by Puccini, and Arlecchino is an amusing and wry comic opera. I have not heard Die Brautwahl(the Bridal choice) but would very much like to hear the Barenboim recording, which I believe is no longer available.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I do read about Sgambati before, who later I found compose no opera(?). Btw, I forget to mentioned Luigi Cherubini who is also , maybe, the only later Italiano who composed a number of string quartets.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Here is a piece of his, which I randomly picked, given that Scondanibbio appears to be a double bass soloist. To my ears, it is lacklustre piece, not quite sure what the music is trying to do and if the musician in the clip (perhaps the composer himself) was punishing the instrument or not. Weird.


I too had never heard of Scodanibbio before today. I like that piece you posted. It's rhythmic and drony, which is the kind of thing I like.

I've had a listen to most of what's available on Youtube from him and found these two to be the best.










However, I didn't really like a piece of his called 'Western Lands'.

Solo contrabass is not the easiest instrument to write interesting music for anyway. Why don't you recommend me some better solo acoustic bass, for as far as I'm concerning it fares well against other pieces in that category. What this has to do with the topic I don't know.

Back on topic,



superhorn said:


> Respighi wrote at least seven operas, a few of which have been recorded .
> The best known. and an opera that definitely deserves to be performed more,is La Fiamma (The Flame), a strange and disturbing story of superstition and witchcraft in medieval Byzantine Italy.
> The late Lamberto Gardelli, who did so much to promote interesting obscure works by Italian composers, made a fine recording for Humgaroton with the orchestra and chorus of the Hungarian State opera and a mostly Hungarian cast. It may still be available, and I recommend it. La Fiamma would definitely be worth a Met production .
> He also recorded Respighi's Belfagor(a comic opera), Semiranis (same story as Rossini's Semiramide) , but I have not heard these.I'd definitely like to.
> ...


This thread is posing the question of why most Italian composers after the Classical period stuck mainly to opera. I don't really understand how your post relates to the question. By listing operas I'd guess you agree with Jurianbai, that most Italians succeeded better in opera.

I'll add Luigi Russolo to the list of non-opera Italians. Well ahead of his time in envisaging the growth of noise and electronics in music.

I also have it on good authority from a member on this forum that Giovanni Allevi is the greatest composer to have ever lived.


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## Bardamu (Dec 12, 2011)

Argus said:


> This thread is posing the question of why most Italian composers after the Classical period stuck mainly to opera. I don't really understand how your post relates to the question. By listing operas I'd guess you agree with Jurianbai, that most Italians succeeded better in opera.


The answer is easy, the Opera industry in Italy during that period guarantee the better chance of income for operatic works.
That meant that the pool of talent were directed mainly toward Opera.
When the industry began its crisis around WW1, italian musical environment started to be less reliant on Opera as a genre.
That said the composers known under the label "la generazione dell'80" were still producing many operas with the exception of Casella.
Pizzetti is now remembered mainly as an opera composer (Fedra, Debora e Jaele, Assassionio nella cattedrale).
Respighi , while very famous for his symphonic poems, did a good number of operas some of which very good and popular at the time (La fiamma, La bella dormiente nel bosco, Maria Egiziaca).
Malipiero was insufferable about the common melodramma concept but created many operas although some very strange (L'orfeide, La bottega del caffè, Torneo notturno).
Casella as I said was rarely engaged by the genre but still composed 3 (La donna serpente, La favola di Orfeo).


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