# Sub-genres of classical music - can a comparison be made to rock music?



## bruirn (Nov 5, 2009)

Not sure if the comparison will work or not but how would you compare the different styles of classical music to the different style of rock music?

What composers would you say were the classic rock bands? (Led Zeppelin, The Who, the Jimi Hendrix Experience etc)

Who were the boundary pushing prog rockers? 

Who were the punks?

Who were the death metallers? 

Feel free to add your own genre comparisons.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Who were the death metallers?


only death is real


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

... I don't understand :/


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## bruirn (Nov 5, 2009)

Polednice said:


> ... I don't understand :/


Fair enough. If you had asked me which band best compared to Mozart or Beethoven I would have been struggling too!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm not sure classical music has yet been marketed in quite the way that popular music has (which has hundreds of different genres). Really I think the obsession with genres has probably hurt popular music, music being made just to fit narrow styles.


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

bruirn said:


> Fair enough. If you had asked me which band best compared to Mozart or Beethoven I would have been struggling too!


Oh, but that's quite easy actually;

No band at all


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

It's not that I don't understand the _concept_, it's that I don't understand the _point_...


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

There may not be a point but ill go anyway.

Classic Rock - Brahms, Mendelssohn

Prog - Beethoven, Wagner.

All I can think of..


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> There may not be a point but ill go anyway.
> 
> Classic Rock - Brahms, Mendelssohn
> 
> ...


That's all that came to my mind too. When looking at cross-genre comparisons, it seems as though it can only ever come down to 'who are the conservatives and who are the progressives' - though that is something that can never be agreed upon anyway! As for considering the punk and death metal equivalents, well... I don't see how it even begins to make sense!


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Why don't we start with getting the difference between style and genre right...


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Polednice said:


> As for considering the punk and death metal equivalents, well... I don't see how it even begins to make sense!


Bartóks string quartets sound actually remotely similar to death metal to my ears... though even that is far-fetched. But the "philosophy" of punk is so anti-classical that I can't think anything punkish in classical music.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Dim7 said:


> Bartóks string quartets sound actually remotely similar to death metal to my ears... though even that is far-fetched. But the "philosophy" of punk is so anti-classical that I can't think anything punkish in classical music.


Indeed, that's the problem. The point of this mental exercise doesn't seem to be to find classical music that in some remote way might happen to slightly sound like death metal just a little bit if you really strain your ears, but rather to find the 'character equivalents' which, as I suggested, can only exist in the sense of 'conservative' and 'progressive', unless we start taking a look at the composers' potentially outrageous personal lives!


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## Bartók (Dec 10, 2009)

Polednice said:


> Indeed, that's the problem. The point of this mental exercise doesn't seem to be to find classical music that in some remote way might happen to slightly sound like death metal just a little bit if you really strain your ears, but rather to find the 'character equivalents' which, as I suggested, can only exist in the sense of 'conservative' and 'progressive', unless we start taking a look at the composers' potentially outrageous personal lives!


I that case, I think the music of Niccolo Paganini could be compared the guitar parts of some metal bands, because the way he wrote for the violin seems somewhat similar to the extremely fast and hard to play music of the metal genre.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Polednice said:


> That's all that came to my mind too. When looking at cross-genre comparisons, it seems as though it can only ever come down to 'who are the conservatives and who are the progressives' - though that is something that can never be agreed upon anyway! As for considering the punk and death metal equivalents, well... I don't see how it even begins to make sense!


Punk - Schoenberg

lol.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

I read a short story once where a Baroque composer was transported into the future (can't remember his name, it wasn't a famous composer). And once he got there he continued living in the same manner, just with modern technology and mentality... he was rock star


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> Classic Rock - Brahms, Mendelssohn


No wai. Brahms and Mendelssohn wrote their music in traditional way because they were traditionalists. Classic rock was popular decades ago and now it's gone, because there is no Brahms and Mendelssohn of classic rock that would make oldschool music and reach fame.


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## scytheavatar (Aug 27, 2009)

Mahler is definitely just as pretentious as any prog band.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Dim7 said:


> But the "philosophy" of punk is so anti-classical that I can't think anything punkish in classical music.


The nearest thing to a punk composer that I can think of is George Antheil. Check out this article on his *Ballet mecanique*:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballet_Mécanique


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Beethoven was probably the speedmetal composer of his day. His works were more technically demanding than a lot of others, and he was rather eclectic and aggressive when compared to his early contemporaries.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I read a short story once where a Baroque composer was transported into the future (can't remember his name, it wasn't a famous composer). And once he got there he continued living in the same manner, just with modern technology and mentality... he was rock star

The story is entitled, Gianni... by Robert Silverberg. In the tale he brings Giovanni Battista Pergolesi into the future and Pergolesi spend his time listening and absorbing the whole of Western musical history since his death. He is most stunned by Mozart. Beethoven he finds crushing and too intense. He sees Wagner as a madman. Schoenberg and Stravinsky he just finds terrifying... ugly... and bizarre... while Ligeti, Xenakis, and Stockhausen he simply dismissed as having absolutely nothing to do with music whatsoever. Continually he returns to Bach and Mozart. And then one day he comes upon pop music and he ponders "Who listens to this music? _Imbecelli? Infanti?_" Taken to a pop/rock concert, however, he becomes seduced by the screaming fans and the theatrics... and the realization that the most "skilled" pop musician is a moron in comparison to himself and he certainly could make a fortune... far more than he ever made as a starving composer in the service of the church. And so he enters into the world of pop music... where he ends up dying once more... another casualty of the usual drink and drugs.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Punk - Schoenberg

No way. The punks could barely play their instruments... not even on the level of the early raw roots of rock (Elvis, Little Richard, etc...). Schoenberg was anything but. Raw and untutored classical music? Erik Satie?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

There are never exact comparisons, so trying to look for any in specific detail has no point. Really this is just a bit of FUN. Popular music as I said elsewhere created a new tradition largely (with new instruments, new forms - the musical, the album etc etc).

Schoenberg was a punk in that he rebelled against the progressive music (Mahler, Wagner, Bruckner etc) which had just gone over the top. It was a more economical music and seemed an obvious act of rebellion.

The rock n roll was the virtuosos like Liszt and others with their piano music and violin concerti. They were the stars of their age, worshiped by their audience.

The classicists were the classic songwriters of the earlier period such as Rodgers/Hart, Gershwin, Porter and Kern. With their craft and concern for form, for expression within tight structures these could vaguely be equated with Haydn, Mozart etc.

Then back to the 20s and jazz. This brought a new energy into popular music, and perhaps could be compared to baroque.

The Renaissance with its soothing arrangements and melodic lines could be compared perhaps to some of the early lyrical songwriters like Stephen Foster.


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## helorime (Dec 15, 2009)

I have noticed perhaps a "mood" comparison, or a taste comparison over the years, with people who like both rock and classical.

For instance I am a Beethoven, Shostakovitch, Dvorak, Schubert/Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Talking Heads kind of a person.

I know others who are Mozart, Puccini, Ravel/ Enya, Robby, Queen kind of people... does that make any sense?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

helorime said:


> I have noticed perhaps a "mood" comparison, or a taste comparison over the years, with people who like both rock and classical.
> 
> For instance I am a Beethoven, Shostakovitch, Dvorak, Schubert/Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Talking Heads kind of a person.
> 
> I know others who are Mozart, Puccini, Ravel/ Enya, Robby, Queen kind of people... does that make any sense?


I don't like this kind of pop / rock division anyway, seems like it was just made for some to feel superior to others. The fewer boundaries people put around music the better. Music is music.


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## helorime (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm not sure what you mean, I was talking about a heavier and more driven mood vs a brighter more flowing one.


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