# Could you recognize the music in your collection?



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

How well do you know your albums (or digital files)?

To revive an old metaphor, if you were to "drop the needle" (i.e., start playback) at any point (beginning, some middle point, or near the end) in any or some or most of your recordings, would you be able to identify:

a.) the composer of the work;
b.) the composition;
c.) the movement; and
d.) (if you have more than one version) the particular performers

without getting any other clues than what you are able to hear?

I know a few pieces by how they start, and I recognize some passages in some movements of a few works, but these are but a minute number of the works that I have collected. If you started playback at any point, I would likely be completely lost, even in these few works. With some composers, I can kind of recognize their styles, but I could easily be fooled.

Despite how much I think I know and have learned, it would be a pretty hopeless endeavour.

How about you?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I've got it easy, then, with certainly under 100 CDs:

If held accountable for all recordings I have ever owned, "all the way back" and all the rep I've listened to, studied, played, performed, or read through, I would be in at least a bit of a muddle.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Like PetrB, I have a relatively small collection. I've listened to most of it to death, and don't even have many duplicates where I'd have to guess the performer. I don't know how much time I'd need to guess. In many or most instances, 10 seconds or so.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I could too with over 90% of my CDs.


----------



## stevederekson (Jan 5, 2014)

Usually, when I buy a recording of a piece, I listen to it enough times that I can play much of it in my head.

I would easily recognize anything in my collection.


----------



## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Until I started downsizing my life I had about 1500 LPs, representing I don't know how many compositions. Guiltily, I confess the were a few I never listened to all of -- especially sets. nevertheless, I suspect I could have named composers in 95 percent of them, actual piece in 85, place in piece 60-70, performer in 80-90 (mainly because although I had duplicates, there weren't that many, and by default I knew who most of my recordings were by, so if in could get the piece, I pretty much knew who it was by, and where I had duplicates I knew them well enough to have a good idea).


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I can recognize Beethoven's 9th 9 out of 10 times. Beyond that I'm lost.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

scratchgolf said:


> I can recognize Beethoven's 9th 9 out of 10 times. Beyond that I'm lost.


I can recognize it...as music. Well, most of it. :lol:


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I find it hard to believe that people couldn't recognise a, b, & c from their _own_ collection. Even if it is obscure...you bought it! :lol:
...unless you hated it and it immediately became a drinks coaster.


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I don't think I could. So many cds there.


----------



## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I probably couldn't. That's because I own rather a lot of "Complete Works" box sets, which I haven't got round to fully listening to yet. That said, of the stuff which has made it out of the box sets and onto my iPod, I am pretty good at identifiying the pieces. I sometimes test myself with a random shuffle "name the composer" game and do pretty well, although it's those renaissance masses which catch me out a lot of the time!


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2014)

Some, yes - a, b and c for the one recording of Shosty's 11th, for example - but unless it's the 4th movement of the 1st, I can't tell the difference between LvB's 1st and 2nd Symphony.

Of course, you didn't say how long the needle would continue playing...have I got one, ten, 30 seconds?


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I have listened to many pieces for only once and many others repeatedly. So it's a big mix. I have a feeling I will go through my listening life with this wonderful mix of familiarity and unfamiliarity.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have close to 1000 CD's so it might be difficult.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

hpowders said:


> I have close to 1000 CD's so it might be difficult.


...but we could probably identify 1000 pop songs on the radio if forced to do so.


----------



## lupinix (Jan 9, 2014)

I can recognise almost everything, though recognizing the performer depends on the piece


----------



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

No - I couldn't 

When I had far fewer CDs and a younger brain, then yes, I could have done so. 

But also, I seldom bother to learn the catalogue numbers of the pieces on my CDs any more - for example, I was listeing to one of a set of 9 CDs of Haydn's Piano Trios last night an whilst I can remember that they were really good (especially the second one, I think), I couldn't honestly say that I would know if you tested me with any movement of out the 10 hours on this set and asked if it were the one I liked best. Instead, I have a note book with a ratings system and a different code for each year so that I can see if I haven't heard something for a long time or if there is a particular disc that I liked more than any other in a set.


----------



## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Couac Addict said:


> ...but we could probably identify 1000 pop songs on the radio if forced to do so.


One pop song (which amounts to verse/chorus) doesn't equate to one cd of classical music. And really it depends how many times you have heard something as well as how much you have. Not everyone has a photographic memory, or whatever the equivalent is for sound.

I don't think it's a big deal anyway, better to have more to discover in the future anyway.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> ...but we could probably identify 1000 pop songs on the radio if forced to do so.


No problem. When do I start??


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

With pieces I know well, I can usually identify the work within two bars or so, sometimes even from a single chord if the voicing/instrumentation is recognizable enough.

I'm positive I could identify any virtually Mahler work in less than 10 seconds.


----------



## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

I can sort of recognize a piece but I can't do it all of the time. I am good on recognizing the styles of composers though. For example today when I was on the coach listening to my iPod on shuffle play, a new song came up and I thought to myself, that sounds like Mozart! I looked down and I was right. I predicted it was the minuet to a Divertimento but it was the minuet to his 21th symphony though.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

With iTunes I quiz myself from time to time, and amaze myself with how poorly I do. Of course I'm ok on the very big ones, but then there's a lot of "I know that I know this and that I ought to be able to say exactly what it is, but...." 

A lot of other times maybe I'll know something like, "Well, this is from one of Mozart's later piano concertos" but not be able to say which one. 

And then there's times when I just get it wrong - like, "Oh, this is easy, this is Chopin's second piano concerto. I've got this." And it turns out to be Liszt's first. Or something like that. 

In just a few cases where I have multiple performers I'm able to say who it is, but in that case it's sometimes with extramusical cues like the volume of hiss or the nature of the recording, how long the pause is before the music starts (if I remember that), how far from the mic the piano seems to be, etc. But even when I recognize that kind of thing, I still have to remember which one it is, and I usually can't! Other times, of course - looking at Celibidache over there - it's easy.


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I find Schubert to be one of the easiest for me to recognize, or so I thought. I just placed my 160gb iPod on shuffle and skipped through until I felt I'd come across a Schubert piece. I nailed it first try, and by nailed it, I mean identified Mendelssohn as Schubert.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Since my collection could best be described as "an embarrassment of riches", anyone could walk into my music room, pull a CD from my collection, play a minute of it for me, and, as long as it isn't from the standard repertoire, completely stump me. I'd probably get the genre and period right, and maybe the composer, but that's about it.

As for the standard repertoire, I'd probably get the work and movement right as well, but probably not the performer/conductor (except for Szell).

And, frankly, that doesn't bother me a bit, unless I start thinking about more productive ways I could have used my money over the last forty years...


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have 6 complete sets of Beethoven's symphonies. I'm confident I could recognize which is which.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

hpowders said:


> I have 6 complete sets of Beethoven's symphonies. I'm confident I could recognize which is which.


I'd love to see that. I have even tried to memorize stuff, and it's hard. For some reason the fourth recording is the one that always gets me. I can keep three straight, but once there are four or more, I get them mixed up.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I guess I have a lot of listening to do. I wouldn't fare as well as most


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Couac Addict said:


> I find it hard to believe that people couldn't recognise a, b, & c from their _own_ collection. Even if it is obscure...you bought it! :lol:
> ...unless you hated it and it immediately became a drinks coaster.


Well, in my case, it's just the fact that I went through a period of time where I bought music at a faster rate than I could possibly listen to it. I've listened to everything in my collection at least once or twice but out of at least 2,000 pieces that I do have that's not enough to become that familiar with all of them.


----------



## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

it is not easy job to do, for every composer we have in our CDs

possibly I could recognize details in my most favourite


but...


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

science said:


> I'd love to see that. I have even tried to memorize stuff, and it's hard. For some reason the fourth recording is the one that always gets me. I can keep three straight, but once there are four or more, I get them mixed up.


The performances are so different, I don't think I would have any trouble.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Well, well, well.

Fascinating.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

some guy said:


> Well, well, well.
> 
> Fascinating.


Even when you don't have anything actually to say, you want to make sure we get your attitude.

Be careful up there, man. People fall sometimes.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Yeah. That was probably uncalled for.

But don't you find it fascinating that a group of classical fans contains so many people who report as not being able to recognize pieces of music that they've heard?

And last night, I couldn't think of a way to say that without seeming rude.

And I ended up being rude, anyway.

Oh well.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

some guy said:


> But don't you find it fascinating that a group of classical fans contains so many people who report as not being able to recognize pieces of music that they've heard?


Not particularly.

If I listen to thirty or forty works over and over for a year, and then couldn't recognize them, I'd find that fascinating.

If I listen to 3,000 different works once or twice while I'm working or driving during the course of a year, I'd find it more fascinating if I *could* recognize them.


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> With pieces I know well, I can usually identify the work within two bars or so, sometimes even from a single chord if the voicing/instrumentation is recognizable enough.
> 
> I'm positive I could identify any virtually Mahler work in less than 10 seconds.


For the record, Mahlerian, you are not invited to classical music trivia night!

:lol:


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> With pieces I know well, I can usually identify the work within two bars or so, sometimes even from a single chord if the voicing/instrumentation is recognizable enough.
> 
> I'm positive I could identify any virtually Mahler work in less than 10 seconds.


Ya there are some pieces with instantly recognizable first chords.

Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms for example.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't think I could recognize much. Heck, I have trouble recognizing the clothes in my closet.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

some guy said:


> Yeah. That was probably uncalled for.
> 
> But don't you find it fascinating that a group of classical fans contains so many people who report as not being able to recognize pieces of music that they've heard?
> 
> ...


I'll guess there's at least a hundred works I would recognize within the first seconds, maybe even from the first sound.

But I must've heard at least 3,000 works by now. You put something like Mozart's 28th symphony or Schubert's 13th piano sonata or Shostakovich's 4th string quartet or Fauré's 2nd piano quartet or Bach's 161st cantata - sorry, man, it's just too much for me to have memorized all of that.

You've boasted on here quite a few times about how much music you own. If it's really that much, and unless you've got some kind of genius for remembering everything you've heard, there must be works you've forgotten.


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

science said:


> You've boasted on here quite a few times about how much music you own.


Have I? I don't remember that. I have a pretty modest collection. Maybe 5000 CDs worth of music. Compared to my friend's collection of over 30,000 CDs, that's pretty small.



science said:


> If it's really that much, and unless you've got some kind of genius for remembering everything you've heard, there must be works you've forgotten.


Well, I'm very interested in music. It doesn't feel like genius or like remembering, either one. Just recognition. I hear something. Then next time it plays, I recognize it. Because the interest is so high is what I'm guessing. Things I'm really interested in don't seem to take any effort. Things I'm not as interested in do, though. Definitely.

I enjoy movies. But I rarely if ever watch one on my own. Or suggest watching a movie to others. But I do enjoy them.

If I were to participate on a film forum, I would probably sound like a lot of the responses to this thread.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

brotagonist said:


> How well do you know your albums (or digital files)?
> 
> To revive an old metaphor, if you were to "drop the needle" (i.e., start playback) at any point (beginning, some middle point, or near the end) in any or some or most of your recordings, would you be able to identify:
> 
> ...


I have a less prolific collection compared to some members of this forum. Its in the hundreds, not the thousands. So I would get at least the composer right, sometimes the work or even movement.

I tend not to duplicate with different performances so that cancels that out.

Its a reason though why I keep my collection small - I want to know it, and I want to know it as best as I could. If I get into the thousands, that sort of detailed way I approach music can be lost. There is plusses and minuses to my approach but the worst thing I can think of is just biting off more than I can chew - which leads to a kind of overkill and massive burnout. I got to sustain this interest!



> without getting any other clues than what you are able to hear?
> 
> I know a few pieces by how they start, and I recognize some passages in some movements of a few works, but these are but a minute number of the works that I have collected. If you started playback at any point, I would likely be completely lost, even in these few works. With some composers, I can kind of recognize their styles, but I could easily be fooled.
> 
> ...


I have often listened to radio, well more in the past than now. If I turned it on and they where in the middle of playing a piece that I think I knew, I would wrack my brain to guess what it is. If I had it in my collection, I would inevitably get it before the announcer came on. But if I missed the announcement, it would bug me for ages, in the end I would get it...or forget it.

If a piece was unknown to me, I would try guess the composer, or his influences. Sometimes my guess was totally off track, sometimes I was on the right track, sometimes I had absolutely no clue. One that I remember was listening to Gliere's Ilya Muromets Symphony - I thought it was Scriabin, which I guess is warm enough, since that would have been an influence.

I am guessing for opera fans, or those more highly into vocal music, its easier. When I hear something like Wozzeck's guttural scream, well its pretty easy to guess that. Nor is it hard to guess what opera that guy singing "figaro, figaro, figaro, figaro, figaro..." is from, no? Well, one of two figaros, maybe. :lol:



Mahlerian said:


> With pieces I know well, I can usually identify the work within two bars or so, sometimes even from a single chord if the voicing/instrumentation is recognizable enough.
> 
> I'm positive I could identify any virtually Mahler work in less than 10 seconds.


Do you think though Bruckner would be more challenging? What's to tell one blazing brass chorale from another? I'm asking because you are knowledgeable of them both, you can compare in this way, perhaps.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Sid James said:


> Do you think though Bruckner would be more challenging? What's to tell one blazing brass chorale from another? I'm asking because you are knowledgeable of them both, you can compare in this way, perhaps.


Not by a single chord, perhaps (because his methods of orchestration were really the same from work to work), but within a few bars, or at most a minute, sure. Aside, that is, from Symphonies 00~2, which I'm not really all that familiar with (although as I said that, the theme of the finale of 1 burst into my mind).


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Sid James said:


> I have a less prolific collection compared to some members of this forum. Its in the hundreds, not the thousands. So I would get at least the composer right, sometimes the work or even movement... Its a reason though why I keep my collection small - I want to know it, and I want to know it as best as I could.


I feel rather the same way: if I buy it, I want to know it. Some people seem to be able to digest music much easier. I'm sure that music training has something to do with it. Me, I need many listenings to be able to achieve that kind of familiarity. Even for works I have known since the mid-'70s, I don't believe I could make that claim yet. I recognize a lot of composers, but, like I said, it wouldn't take much to trick me. Perhaps that is what sustains the interest for me, that it always feels like my mouth is still full, no matter how long I chew


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

The condition of the OP was whether we could recognise the music "wherever the needle was dropped." I'm sure I could recognise much of my collection if it were played from the beginning, but might struggle with some dustier corners (I don't listen to the Mahler's 8th I was given).

In the case of, say, Debussy's Preludes and Etudes - I've not yet committed the numbers to memory, so I doubt I could say which was which.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

There are days when I can't remember my nephews' names, or whether I dated girl X before or after girl Y dumped me, or whether my wife asked me to get chocolate milk and banana pie or banana milk and chocolate pie, and so on, so I don't think we should get too up or down on ourselves over this kind of thing.

I really love the DHM 50 box set, but if you play a bit of Gluck's _Le Cinesi_ and I get it, I either cheated or got lucky. I don't see any realistic way for it to be otherwise, given the sheer volume of music out there. It's one thing to recognize a Mahler symphony, but anyone who can recognize, say, Schubert D. 845, is a serious student of the piano sonata. And that's a fairly famous work by a fairly famous composer. Anyone who can recognize one of Leyendecker's symphonies is either a professional performer or student who happens to have studied that closely, or a really dedicated fan of Leyendecker, or his mother, or a genius.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

When I was younger, I generally wore out my LP collection listening over and over with full attention. I would probably have been able to recognize most of the things in my collection within (estimating modestly) about 30 seconds, and a lot of them within 5 seconds.

In more recent times, my collecting has outstripped any possibility of such serious and sustained listening. I have a number of huge boxed sets that it might still take me years to get through even with casual listening while I work or drive. Some might find the whole thing incongruous - why have so much? And, why, at the same time, take advantage of my local library system to regularly check out even more discs? 

Why, indeed? I have no logical answer for that.

But, my love for music has very little of logic about it. I enjoy what I'm doing, so why should I have to justify it to someone else?


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Vesteralen said:


> I enjoy what I'm doing, so why should I have to justify it to someone else?


Ex-thefreak-zactly.

I think I just fell in love with you.

I don't even try to justify it to my own worthless self anymore. It's just, hey, this is what the stank I want to do, and I have the cash, and I might die this year, so I'm doing it right the flap now. Stand back.

I know that's an unnecessarily dramatic attitude to have about spending a few hundred more dollars on CDs or whatever, but the thing is, it's easy to get guilted out by stuff, even when no one else is trying to do it to me. I mean, my wife is past caring at this point. I walked in today with $200 of CDs, she doesn't even blink or comment, she has to tell me something about the cheese in the fridge. Everything that I have to get through is in my own head.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Now I have to count my CDs. I estimated about 1000. Then there's all the tapes!!!


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Then there's all the tapes!!!


Hmmmm.... I would've that you were younger than that....


----------



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

When it comes to classical I would fail miserably. I've sold off a lot but still have at least 5-6,000 CD's.

I can usually pick out Mozart, Mahler & Beethoven symphonies within a few seconds to a minute or two when listening to the radio. Same with my favorite works from other composers, but there are thousands of works that I've heard but couldn't pick out. If you play me one of Haydn's 104 Symphonies, I can probably make a guess that it's Haydn, but I couldn't necessarily tell you which one. I've listened to them all, but I don't have all of them memorized by any means.

My Rock and Roll CD's of which I have again several thousand, I would fair much better with. I spot singers and guitarist extremely well so even if it's a track off an album that I might not be all that familiar with I can match up the voice or the guitarist pretty quickly and be reasonably sure that I'm correct.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

science said:


> Hmmmm.... I would've that you were younger than that....


And then there's the 78's of Al Jolson and Enrico Caruso acquired first hand when I was still in my 80's.


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

This challenge seems to me to sit alongside the idea that one could come up with a meaningful list of 100 composers in some kind of rank order. I notice that thread is not exactly bursting with contributions (possibly poll/list fatigue) and some of those fell short of the initial request for 100.

I'd like to suggest that whilst we might reasonably assert that some members are 'expert' (though I'm not suggesting that they themselves will necessarily make such a claim) and some are relatively inexperienced, most members fall between these two poles and would not claim to be (or wish to be labelled) either 'experts' or 'ignoramuses' (to use a term others have bandied about).

I would claim to have sufficient knowledge to be able to name 100 composers I've heard of (though not rank them except in some approximation of the quantity of their work I've heard); describe why I like Haydn more than Handel (though not justify my likes with reference to their entire oeuvres); identify at least 100 pieces of 'classical' music (though not selected at random as a test); engage in general debate about such vital topics as "What is music?" and "Why Mozart is not universally regarded as the greatest Classical composer" etc

That's not much to go on really, but it's enough to enable me to annoy fellow TCers with the incompleteness of my knowledge!


----------



## Matsps (Jan 13, 2014)

For classical music:
a) yes
b) yes
c) yes
d) no

My friends actually seem to take great pleasure in testing me on this on whatever genre (from classical, to rock, to EDM) they are interested in (pulling up whatever on Youtube and asking me artist/composer and song title). It's a fun game to play. I definitely recommend giving it a go. 

Fortunately, none of my friends like jazz.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Vesteralen said:


> When I was younger, I generally wore out my LP collection listening over and over with full attention. I would probably have been able to recognize most of the things in my collection within (estimating modestly) about 30 seconds, and a lot of them within 5 seconds.


Me, too. I still recognize them within seconds, sometimes on the very first note, and I know every bit of it right through to the end... but it was Beatles, not Beethoven


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I just started attempting to recognize my CD collection. I closed my eyes and reached for a CD. Awkwardly placed it in the player (eyes closed). I recognized it immediately as "Pet Sounds" by the Beach Boys.

Wow! Is there nothing I can't do???


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

hpowders said:


> I just started attempting to recognize my CD collection. I closed my eyes and reached for a CD. Awkwardly placed it in the player (eyes closed). I recognized it immediately as "Pet Sounds" by the Beach Boys.
> 
> Wow! Is there nothing I can't do???


But could you tell whether it had been remastered?

j/k!!!!!!


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

science said:


> But could you tell whether it had been remastered?
> 
> j/k!!!!!!


The sound stinks, so a definite yes, it's been remastered.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

science said:


> But I must've heard at least 3,000 works by now. You put something like Mozart's 28th symphony or Schubert's 13th piano sonata or Shostakovich's 4th string quartet or Fauré's 2nd piano quartet or Bach's 161st cantata - sorry, man, it's just too much for me to have memorized all of that.


This forces me to admit I may have over-rated my ability in my response. I have the complete Shosty Quartets (well, 1-13 by the Borodins) and can recognize them as Shostakovich's quartets. But in many cases I probably wouldn't be able to name the number and/or the movement. It's also probably harder to guess the movement than it would be with, say, Haydn.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Closed my eyes. Picked out a thick CD jewel box. Awkwardly opened said box, fumbled with inserting one of the CD's in CD player (all with eyes closed), pressed play and immediately recognized Bartok's 4th Quartet played by the Emerson.
Opened eyes. I was correct. The only set I have of the Bartok is by the Emerson.

So far: 2 for 2.


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

Vesteralen said:


> I enjoy what I'm doing, so why should I have to justify it to someone else?


Ah, the magic of language. You can create a whole world with just a couple of words. And you can get instant love from a reader, too.

But I'm curious about the unstated question that should precede your question, which is "has anyone asked you to justify it?"

If not....



science said:


> ...it's easy to get guilted out by stuff, *even when no one else is trying to do it to me.*


Yes. This is key. This explains quite a lot, and not just about science. Provides a fair context for Vesteralen's question, too.

[Emphasis mine.]

So anyway, to get back to the thread question, yes to recognizing music in my collection. Yes to recognizing music I've heard before. A big maybe to recognizing music I haven't heard before. I haven't heard Mozart's early symphonies. Not to speak of. But probably I could recognize them as symphonies )) and as by Mozart.

I've only heard a few minutes of a Leyendecker piece on youtube--not a symphony--so that would limit recognition to "vaguely twentieth century." And since the twentieth century was one in which stylistic devices from the past persisted, dating things just from the sound is more difficult than with any other century before that.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

some guy said:


> Ah, the magic of language. You can create a whole world with just a couple of words. And you can get instant love from a reader, too.


Yeah, I love language.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

> So anyway, to get back to the thread question, yes to recognizing music in my collection. Yes to recognizing music I've heard before. *A big maybe to recognizing music I haven't heard before*.


Maybe? Remember, the OP wasn't just asking about the composer and type of work, but the exact work, movement and performers.

"Oh, this sounds like a Bach cantata. Not sure which, but words sound secular." Fair enough.
Naming the exact cantata you've never heard before? Maybe is a pretty high bar to set for yourself.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If that !s what the OP was asking, then probably nobody could do it unless he just has 10 or fewer recordings. I have close to 1000. Under those circumstances, no way!


----------



## Centropolis (Jul 8, 2013)

There is no way that I can recognize more than 5% of my modest collection which I started about 7 months ago. Like a few others, I can probably get the time period but not the composer and the specific opus number etc. from listening to any movement and starting from anywhere in the middle of the piece.

Of course there are pieces that I do recognize right off the bat just because I've listened to them so many times or they have a very memorable melody. Like Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Beethoven's Piano Concerto #5. But even then, I am not sure if you just start playing in the middle of the 2nd movement that I can tell you in 10 seconds that I can tell you exactly which piece.


----------



## Centropolis (Jul 8, 2013)

I may be able to recognize more if you play the beginning. Like Rite of Spring or The Planets.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

It depends how many performances you have of these pieces. Say I have 12 different CD's of Le Sacre Du Printemps.
I couldn't begin to tell you which is which, hearing the opening bassoon...maybe 2 or 3 if I'm lucky.


----------



## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Having just done the experiment, I can say that there are dark corners of my collection that I totally missed (Schubert's second symphony, anybody?) but generally I get everything but the movement. Sometimes I know the movement but not the work (I usually know when I'm in the finale of a haydn symphony, but not the symphony).


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

brotagonist said:


> I feel rather the same way: if I buy it, I want to know it...


That's the reason why I collect too.



> ...Some people seem to be able to digest music much easier. I'm sure that music training has something to do with it...


I dare say yes, musicians need to have a good - even brilliant - memory. Not only to play things from memory, but also to compose of course, to get often elusive thoughts down on a page.



> ...
> Me, I need many listenings to be able to achieve that kind of familiarity. Even for works I have known since the mid-'70s, I don't believe I could make that claim yet. I recognize a lot of composers, but, like I said, it wouldn't take much to trick me. Perhaps that is what sustains the interest for me, that it always feels like my mouth is still full, no matter how long I chew


Reading that last bit and also what others have said and added, I think I might have overestimated myself as well a bit. In terms of what I said, turning on the radio and guessing what is playing by the time the announcer comes on, most often that's with works I've known for ages. They also tend to be the distinctive works by composers, so less likely to be the "dark corners" of my collection that ahammel talks about above.

The other thing is when I hear an influence or a tune similar in one piece of music to another. It often bugs me no end thinking "what is that similar to?" Or even question if I am imagining things. I just listened to some music Coates, the British composer of light music, and it reminded me vaguely (or more than vaguely) of a song by Gershwin. I could name the song while listening to _By the Sleepy Lagoon_, but now its gone, I can't remember what I thought it was like. That's memory, so elusive and ephemeral! Its a funny thing, the answer can come in the middle of something else entirely a day or more later, it can be frustrating like that.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Sid James said:


> ...when I hear an influence or a tune similar in one piece of music to another. It often bugs me no end thinking "what is that similar to?" Or even question if I am imagining things.


Well, I hope it's music you're hearing, and not something you're imagining 

It's crazy, the perceived similarity of one piece with another, imprecise as that similarity can be, and dependent as it is on what one has come to know well.

When I retire, I think I'll take a course in music. I want to finally know what a key is and be able to recognize one when I hear it


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I just thought I'd mention by the way that this thread has reminded of one of my favorite reviews by David Hurwitz (a 10/10 for Andrew Manze's Geminiani):



> Ah, the memories! Way back in my college days, I was very proud of my LP collection containing some 1,600 albums, including virtually all of the Philips "Living Baroque" series. One day I had occasion to welcome a couple of houseguests, self-styled "culture aficionados," and we naturally fell into a tediously predictable game of "who knows more about what." That's what sophomores do, after all, and some of us eventually grow out of it. Many others don't. Not that I felt at that time (or now for that matter) that I was anything terribly special in this department. I simply knew that I had 1,600 albums and that I could identify every damn piece on all of them. Anyway, at some point I asked my guests if they would like to hear something. They asked me if I liked Baroque music (this was when The Four Seasons and the Pachelbel Canon had just burst onto the scene via public radio pledge drives and the like). "Naturally," I replied, "What would you like to hear?" "How about some Geminiani?" came the suggestion, "He's simply DIVINE!"
> 
> Well, didn't that just beat all? I had Corelli, Albinoni, Veracini, Vivaldi, Frescobaldi, Locatelli, not to mention Addison, Scarlatti, Fasch, Tartini: by God, I probably could have found Tortellini and Spumoni if I had to, but the great Baroque Repertoire Expansion of the 1980s, largely brought on by the original instrument movement, was just getting started. There was no Geminiani anywhere in my collection, or in my Schwann catalog. I knew it, and they knew it, and they knew that I knew that they knew it. So I did the only thing I could under the circumstances. I bluffed. I took out my "Living Baroque" copy of stuff by Albinoni, put it on the stereo (which thankfully was in another room), and announced: "This is my very favorite Geminiani album!" "Oh yes," they agreed immediately. "We have this one too and we play it all the time." "I thought you might," I replied somewhat smugly. Gotcha!
> 
> And what is the moral of this story? Well, there isn't one really, unless we want to make the generic observation that all Baroque music sounds the same-until you actually listen to it, that is. Here's a particularly acute case, in which Geminiani turns out to be a sort of Corelli in drag. These marvelous Concerti Grossi take Corelli's Op. 5 violin sonatas as their starting point, and metamorphose them into something else entirely. Geminiani's music has more fire and guts, requires a higher level of musical virtuosity, and replaces some of Corelli's winsome melodic inspiration with an almost devilish sense of fun. Taken by themselves, this is Baroque entertainment of the highest order, but if you feel daring and actually spend some time comparing these works to Corelli's originals, the result adds an entirely new level of fascination to your listening experience.


http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4935/?search=1

For what it's worth, I like Geminiani too and have a copy of this Manze disk in my collection--just don't ask me to identify it :lol:


----------



## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

I play the "name the composer/work" game whenever I turn on the classical radio. I get the composer about 80%, the work about 40-50% - though I can take as long as I want.

I've got thousands of cds and lps, but the success rate sould be roughly the same. Getting the performers is far more problematic.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

From the radio I get the composer right 97.2% of the time. "Vivaldi"


----------



## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

hpowders said:


> From the radio I get the composer right 97.2% of the time. "Vivaldi"


Heh. From what I hear around TC it seems we here in NZ are slightly luckier with the classical radio programming than many.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SimonNZ said:


> Heh. From what I hear around TC it seems we here in NZ are slightly luckier with the classical radio programming than many.


Except for Chicago and Boston, classical free radio is in serious decline in the USA.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Except for Chicago and Boston, classical free radio is in serious decline in the USA.


Actually the most widely-heard public classical station is in Southern California...any decline is well-concealed.


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

That one is also the one most seriously and consistently questioned for its questionable programming practices.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

They need to come on board with all Vivaldi all the time except for breaks 5 minutes before the hour for news and weather.


----------



## Donata (Dec 28, 2013)

I think I could recognize most of them, but then I don't have that large of a collection.


----------



## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I could recognize probably 80% of it but I only have around 100 classical albums in my iTunes. The rest is on Spotify. Even knowing the composer, it might be a bit of a struggle nailing down the exact work within certain groups of works(piano concertos, sonatas, symphonies). But having that kind of encyclopedic knowledge and recall over most of the major repertoire is definitely something I think about quite a bit and strive for. I guess it just takes time but ironically time is the thing that will also rob me of memory.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hey, you guys who can recognize all that music - does that include Vivaldi? There's a piece I've been trying to identify and I can't do it! 

On a Virgin album, Marielle Nordman plays something labeled as "Harp Concerto in D minor," and it is attributed to Vivaldi. So, if it really is Vivaldi (I guess it could be a transcription of perhaps a mandolin concerto...), what is its RV number?


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

science said:


> all that music


Equivocation is fun, I know. But it doesn't really do anyone any good.



science said:


> does that include Vivaldi?


If it is, as the OP asked for, in my collection, then "yes."



science said:


> There's a piece I've been trying to identify and I can't do it!


Give us a clip, then, if that's what you really want. A verbal reference to a recording won't get any results unless you happen to get someone who also has that recording. And that person might only be able to recognize that recording.

That is, their answer would be, legitimately, "That's Vivaldi's harp concerto in d," which you already know. Or "know."


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

hpowders said:


> From the radio I get the composer right 97.2% of the time. "Vivaldi"


Not much variety, it's true--but at this point I give them credit for playing all four seasons.


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

science said:


> Hey, you guys who can recognize all that music - does that include Vivaldi? There's a piece I've been trying to identify and I can't do it!
> 
> On a Virgin album, Marielle Nordman plays something labeled as "Harp Concerto in D minor," and it is attributed to Vivaldi. So, if it really is Vivaldi (I guess it could be a transcription of perhaps a mandolin concerto...), what is its RV number?


I reckon you'll find that it is a transcription of Vivaldi's Concerto for Violin and Organ in D minor, *RV 541*.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

The classical radio station in my hometown used to publish a programming guide for each month and almost always programmed complete works. Now, there is no program guide and all you hear are single movements, but oddly, the pieces themselves are often unexpected and somewhat unknown things. I do very, very badly in identifying and even recognizing what I'm hearing.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^^Same deal. I used to get a comprehensive monthly program guide published by my commercial FM classical station.
An embarrassment of riches. Usually all the Beethoven and Brahms Symphonies, etc;

Now the program guide looks like "The Complete Works of Antonio Vivaldi".


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

Partita said:


> I reckon you'll find that it is a transcription of Vivaldi's Concerto for Violin and Organ in D minor, *RV 541*.


Hahaha, well science, ya lucked out!!


----------



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

No, I can't recognise all of my 2500+ CDs .... I know that because I'm now listening to Chausson Symphony in B Flat (for the third time since January 2012) and I would have had no idea of the composer, let alone the piece. What's worse is that I have two versions of this work (Jerome Kaltenbach with Orchestre Symphonique et Lyrique de Nancy and Francesco D'Avalos with the
Philharmonia Orchestra) and I honestly wouldn't have remembered that either conductor was on my shelves

now, what WAS my name and where do I live????


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> No, I can't recognise all of my 2500+ CDs .... I know that because I'm now listening to Chausson Symphony in B Flat (for the third time since January 2012) and I would have had no idea of the composer, let alone the piece. What's worse is that I have two versions of this work (Jerome Kaltenbach with Orchestre Symphonique et Lyrique de Nancy and Francesco D'Avalos with the
> Philharmonia Orchestra) and I honestly wouldn't have remembered that either conductor was on my shelves
> 
> now, what WAS my name and where do I live????


I'm in a similar position. I know without even trying that my success rate in identifying composer, work, movement, version of any random sample of size, say, 30 taken out of my collection would be very low indeed, if not virtually zero.

If my collection was of the order of about 100 CDs across 10 composers I would get the composer right in most cases, the work itself on most occasions, the specific movement sometimes, and the version of the work only with a bit luck and probably not that often.

However, with several thousands of hours of music across some 450 composers, with several versions of each of the main works, the level of difficulty increases geometrically, and there's no chance that I'd get it right except possibly the composer on some occasions and maybe the movement. Nor I guess would anyone else be able to do so if they were in the same or similar position.

The same problem might kick in at a much lower level if someone's collection comprises what might loosely be described as mainly atonal works, as I would imagine that it is more difficult to identify such works if there is no melody, or a less pronounced one, and less structure.

On the other hand, someone's collection might be quite large but comprise the works of only a small number of composers in various different versions. Here it should be a lot simpler to identify the composer, the work, but maybe not the particular version with such ease.

The question therefore only really makes sense in the context of smallish collections of a certain type. Overall, I doubt that that answers to the question posed in the OP inform anything except the size and composition of one's collection, and not much at all about how good people are at recognising the material they have in their collections.


----------



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks, Partita!

I'm glad some of us have popped our heads above the parapet and admitted that we're only human - I was beginning to feel that I was alone in having a collection that was bigger than my memory. Phew!


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

some guy said:


> Hahaha, well science, ya lucked out!!


Well, I hope you enjoyed your snark, but it did not turn out to be my luck.



Partita said:


> I reckon you'll find that it is a transcription of Vivaldi's Concerto for Violin and Organ in D minor, *RV 541*.


I found out it's RV 238. The blessed internet. I couldn't find this information out there two years ago, and now there it is.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2014)

Nothing to do, however, with being able to identify the music in one's own collection.

Agreed about the interwebs, though. It wasn't all that long ago that I tracked down a favorite Vivaldi from my childhood with it.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

some guy said:


> Nothing to do, however, with being able to identify the music in one's own collection.


I think you left out some scare-quotes. Perhaps you meant: "Nothing" to do, however, with being "able" to "identify" the music in one's "own" collection. Or perhaps: Nothing to "do," however, with "being" able to identify "the" music in one's own "collection."

But I suppose the important thing was that an attitude was communicated, and you succeeded as well as usual.

Edit: Perhaps I'm wearing down. Your strategy is beginning to attract me to the music you promote.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2014)

Haha, well I am certainly going to have to leave the snarkiness to you. You're much better at it than I am.

(Not that what I just said has anything to do with recognizing the music in my collection. I wanted to say this earlier, but there was never an opportunity. So I'll just do it anyway. And that is that one of my favorite things is to put on a piece blind (by having a friend put it on) and not recognize it. It's in my collection. I've heard it at least once before. But it seems completely new and strange. That I like.)


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

some guy said:


> You're much better at it than I am.


Wishful thinking on both our parts!



some guy said:


> (Not that what I just said has anything to do with recognizing the music in my collection. I wanted to say this earlier, but there was never an opportunity. So I'll just do it anyway. And that is that one of my favorite things is to put on a piece blind (by having a friend put it on) and not recognize it. It's in my collection. I've heard it at least once before. But it seems completely new and strange. That I like.)


I'll go with the majority here and say it strikes me more like a character flaw. Why have I bought a 14th recording if I don't know the first 13 so well after all? Not to mention a 6000th....


----------



## Fortinbras Armstrong (Dec 29, 2013)

I would recognize most of it, but there are some I've only listened to once or twice, and I would be hard pressed to give a specific name to some of those.


----------

