# My favorite symphonies to perform - Beethoven and Mozart



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Most of you probably know that I spent some 40+ years as an orchestra performer, holding many principal bassoon positions during that time....I consider myself so lucky to have had the opportunity to perform much of the world's very greatest music... The symphonies of Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, etc are, of course, staples of the repertoire and I've had the chance to play them many times...
I see lots of threads about favorite Beethoven symphonies, favorite Mozart, etc, etc....which are fine, and give listeners the chance to voice their preferences...
I thought I'd put a slightly different twist on it, and list my favorites to perform, as an orchestra musician...
first off, all of the Beethoven symphonies are great, and wonderful to perform, same with the last 6 of Mozart....great stuff, no doubt, and well-deserving of their popularity and high regard...

for Beethoven - ascending order [sort of]
*#1* - good, fun to play, has some interesting parts, but definitely the lightweight from performance pov...
*#8* - has some fun parts, quirky little solos in the first mvt, with violins....nice counter-melody in the minuet 2nd strain - marked _p_, but you have to play it at _forte_ ,at least, to get it thru...

*#2* - very fun to play - some delicious solo parts, esp in mvts II and IV.....the woodwind writing,esp in mvt II is really exquisite.
*#7 *- fun, not difficult - lots of blowing, exciting and vigorous; lots of good woodwind parts, of course

*#5* - love playing this, as many times as I have [my most performed symphony, I'm sure] - excellent solos in mvt II, and the neat bassoon staccato parts in the transition from from III - IV....of course, I love the recap of mvt I, where the bassoons intone the horn call of the exposition. conductors used to always add the horns here to augment the bassoons, but I've never experienced that - always punched out plenty of sound!!
*#3* - BIG piece - lots of solos, lots of important parts - mvts I, II and IV are really rich for the bassoon...the funeral march has some really juicy parts.

*#9* - a marathon blow!! probably the greatest endurance test of any work in the standard repertoire....the first 3 mvts are constant blowing - important, thematic lines and entrances...if the conductor takes repeats in the scherzo....a real test....great stuff for bassoon tho - esp in mvt II... solo entrances, running 1/4s in cut time in the trio, etc....this is one work where you put your nose right on the ball, get in the groove, and go...don't let up....the last mvt is actually a break, you get some long rests and breaks - and - the wonderful counter melody solo on the second presentation of the "Ode to Joy" theme...great part, that just begs for _espressivo molto_.

*#4!! *- this is the hardest one, and the "nerviest" - the whole part is challenging, but the last mvt is famous for its bassoon staccato solo that recaps the opening theme of 16th notes....this lick gets asked on virtually EVERY orchestra audition....it is a bit scary, you have to jump right in and go like hell!! I actually played this with a conductor who wanted to go, actually, in excess of 1/4 note - 160/minute...that was crazy....I've always had good luck with this part tho - I learned to 2ble tongue a long time ago, so I could pop it out pretty readily....comes in very handy.....tough part tho ...

*#6 *- overall, my favorite to play - wonderful solos - esp mvts I and II, but throughout,too...the clarinet/bassoon writing is glorious, delicious solos/duets.....great key to play in, also - F major - everything "lays nicely on the horn" - ie - it sounds good!! the 2nd mvt is really wonderful - if your reeds are behaving, you can just relax, lay back and sing your heart out!!

I'll address the Mozart symphonies on a subsequent post, I'm sure I've bored everyone to death with this lengthy one!! lol!!:lol::lol:


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I enjoyed reading your perspective on your instrument and look forward to Mozart as well. 

Don't forget about Haydn's bassoon fart.....I would think this could make or break a player.....:lol:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Great stuff. What about the Brahms Orchestral works?


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I always wondered about a bassoonist's perspective on THAT passage of LvB4. When I first heard a recording of that symphony (a LONG time ago), I remember the exact moment I heard it and literally said out loud "Holy $#@! that's hard!"

I'm a hornist so my personal favorite thing to play is the trio in the Eroica's third movement. Also all those great horn parts in the 7th


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I should add for Beethoven - playing the *Violin Concerto *is always a most rewarding experience - great part with many solos, soli...big solo in 2nd mvt, and wonderful solo in Rondo [III] - the second Rondo theme, where the bassoon mimics the solo violin, while the violin soloist embellishes and winds about the attractive tune...
The overtures are fun, too - *Leonore #3 *is great to play - super music, exciting, and a great part - the flute/bassoon duet that ushers in the recap is esp clever, and a little tricky....
*Coriolon* is fun too, not really difficult - but at the end, there is a low sustained G natural that you hold for approx 5 1/2 hours, or so it seems...:lol: 
I never had to "rotary breathe", but that was one part that nearly pushed me to it...

The late Mozart symphonies are wonderful to play - challenging. rewarding - great music....they all feature outstanding parts for bassoon:
*#36 "Linz"* is very fun to play, some delicious solos that lay nicely on the horn...
*#40* - has some very good parts throughout - I love the duet in mvt III - the "fugal" entries of bssn II, then bssn I above it.

with 35, 38, 39, 41 we get into heavy duty stuff -

*#35 "Haffner"* - nice part - not alot of solos - bu the fun part is the finale - fast. with jillions of notes - this is standard audition stuff for all strings....tricky and difficult.....these fast parts are marked staccato - all tongued, but that is not really possible, for that length of time...slurs are applied as needed...once, I remember, I did play them all tongued - I nailed every note, didn't miss even one!! I couldn't believe it!! when we finished, I said to myself <<did you just do that?? I don't remember f----g anything up!!>>:lol:

*#38 "Prague"* has a wonderful part for bassoon....all the way thru, a main melodic voice...great woodwind parts - the "HarmonieMusik". so fun to play. I remember playing this at an all-Mozart program, that also featured the Clarinet concerto - David Shifrin was soloist....the conductor was really a jerk, wanted everything super-soft, and suppressed in volume all the time....always with the hand in everyone's face [napalm conducting - as in "_Nay-palm_"...my section partner and I were going at the music with considerable gusto and vigor, and this was not meeting with maestro's approval...
Mr. Shifrin was listening to the rehearsal, and came up to us when it concluded: "The bassoons sound great!! really terrific. you guys sound great!!" I asked him if it was too loud, too much, poorly balanced - DS: "No way, it's sounds great, perfect!! don't change a thing!!"

*#39* has a wonderful part as well - esp mvts II and IV....beautiful solo lines in mvt II for both parts....finale features the zippy dialogue between flute and bassoon, with the 16th note figures answering back and forth....this is tricky, and it goes by in a hurry....you have to jump right in on top of it. it returns in the recap....

*#41 "Jupiter"* - major part - big solos throughout, every mvt....my own favorites are the middle mvts - the slow mvt has wonderful melodic lines, so poignant, and lovely - they just beg for _espressivo _- why so many of the HIP guys insist on uninflected sterility is beyond me!! [go listen to Bruno Walter!!] the minuet is one of the greatest - and the splendid descending lines in the bassoon, with oboe are always a highlight for me...mvt IV is very athletic!! to say the least - lots of fast notes!! some are exposed, some are tutti with strings - again - put your nose on the ball, get in the groove and go!!

2 overtures need mention - *Marriage of Figaro* - this is a standard - the opening is fast, a little tricky, and it's virtually always the first thing on the program....one of those you just learn it by rote, know it by heart...it's on many auditions...I figure it's the bassoon equivalent of *Stars and Stripes Forever* for the piccolo!! just get it down solid - you're going to play it hundreds, upon hundreds of times during your orchestra career.

*Magic Flute* - superb bassoon part!! esp fun after the slow middle section which echos the opening...the ensuing allegro has wonderful writing for woodwinds....lots of solos, one after another....delicious duet with flute, then soli for 2 bassoons....again, I remember playing this with another "podium poseur", a real noodnik with hearing deficiencies... constantly griping at the woodwinds in general, the bassoons in particular, that everything was too loud, had to be ultra _pianissimo_!! first, there is no score marking supporting that, and second, we were playing in a big concert hall, that seated nearly 2000 people....and this jerk wants everything inaudibly soft?? Hey, jackass, the audience all bought tickets, do they also get to hear the concert, or are we keeping it a secret?? :lol::lol:
I had played Magic Flute with Boris Goldovsky, a great Mozartean.....I learned from him...heard a playback of the concert tape - everyone played out, the balance was fine.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm also a bassoonist (albeit not professionally), so I appreciate these posts. I've yet to meet a bassoonist who doesn't swoon over that countermelody in the Beethoven 9 finale, but I mostly perform with contrabassoon these days so I've never gotten to play that part in an orchestra. One day!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Bigbang said:


> I enjoyed reading your perspective on your instrument and look forward to Mozart as well.
> 
> Don't forget about Haydn's bassoon fart.....I would think this could make or break a player.....:lol:


I never had the chance to play Haydn #93, [dammit]...that is indeed one of the greatest musical jokes. If you've not heard it, you must check out Szell/Cleveland for this work!! LOL!! When they rehearsed it, George Goslee, the great CO principal, played it loud, but way too polite - Szell kept after him - louder, more raucous, coarse, rude....none of Goslee's reeds were making the grade....the following day, they went at it again, to record it...Goslee had taken a raw reed blank - right off the profiling machine, no adjustments, no finishing, just the raw cane on the newly formed reed....what resulted is the wonderfully raucous, crassly blatty flatulence that went on the recording....it's a miracle that the orchestra didn't instantly dissolve into guffaws of uncontrolled mirth!!

BTW - Haydn scored again with this effect, which he no doubt relished - The big Dinosaur farts in "The Creation" wonderful effect - <<and the great beasts trod the earth>> SSSSPPPPLLLLAAAAAAAATTTT!! low Bb is such a wonderful note!! :lol::lol:

PS - on the subject of instrumental flatulence, sometime I'll have to recount my experience playing 2ble Reed Slide Tromboon on PDQ Bach's "The Seasonings"!! toughest gig I ever played; or - How Am I supposed to Play, When Everyone is LTAO??!!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Heck148: as a bassoonist/contrabassoonist I really enjoyed your Beethoven article. I've played them all, and the 4th is always a nightmare. The violin concerto is a delight to play also. It's a great part. The last time I played it, the violin soloist (not the conductor) asked me to stand for recognition. There's one Beethoven that still is harder than heck - Lenore Overture #3! That and the contrabassoon part to the finale of the 9th (those sextuplets! what was LvB thinking?)

I like playing Mozart and Haydn, too. Brahms a little less so. Dvorak is much more fun. There's something about the way those old guys wrote that made all parts, not just bassoon, rewarding and fun to play. I think that's another thing going against so many modern composers - the parts are dull to play. Like Adams' Short Ride in a Fast Machine. What a bore.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

What a great thread. It is great to meet other bassoonists.

I have played symphonies five through nine. 

My favorite experience was playing the contrabassoon on the Ninth (Note: I have had to retire from playing the contra.)


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

This place is FULL of bassoonists. Who'd have thunk it? You guys must be like rats.... We're never more than 5 feet away from one of you!:lol:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I like reading about musicians' experiences as long as it doesn't focus on the kind of technical minutiae that goes way over the head of laymen such as myself - I don't blame them at all when they adopt a more rarefied 'musos in it together' style when discussing the finer aspects of their craft but this thread is the kind of thing that anyone can understand and enjoy.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

continuing on - the works of Brahms and Dvorak figure prominently in the orchestral repertoire...these are some of the most popular works....
The symphonies of Brahms are always enjoyable to play....lots of blowing, Brahms' texture is pretty full...there are lots of wonderful inner voices, melodies that Brahms awards to the tenor and alto voices - bassoons, clarinets, violas, etc...I've always liked conductors who bring these lines out....if they are obscured or indistinguishable, the texture can take on a very thick, muddy sound which, to me, is most unappealing...
of the Brahms symphonies, by far the hardest is #3 - this one is tough for the conductor and the orchestra...but it's also great fun to play..plenty of technique needed in mvt one, plus woodwind ensemble challenges - keeping all of those off-beat eighth note runs and arpeggios together...mvt II features some wonderful woodwind stuff - esp for clarinet and bassoon...Brahms has the clar/bssn duet repeat throughout the mvt, but each time, it is slightly different....the last time I played this, I felt really good about the clarinet/bassoon parts, I thought we did a fine job....mvt III is lovely to play, great lines, and mvt IV is tough!! the running eighth note main theme recurs throughout, usually exposed....
Brahms #3 is a real challenge for the conductor, also - getting the right 6/4 swing in the first mov't is not easy - the big note groups - 2/bar must prevail - but the subdivision is so crucial - it must be maintained for rhythmic accuracy....too often it slows down into a 6 beats/bar trudge that slogs along...deadly....mvt IV is tough, as well - staging the climaxes correctly...

Brahms Sym #2 - is also fun to play - lots of notes, but considerably easier than #3...very fine, and prominent, recurring line for bassoons in the slow movement...as always, Brahms makes great use of woodwinds, in solo or in combinations...
Syms #s 1 and 4 are most enjoyable, also - not as difficult as the others - but always rewarding...#1 has some nice solo, soli sections for bassoon. the slow mvt of #4 is remarkable - the whole beginning section features the clarinets and bassoons, after Horn III and IV introduce the main theme...the clar/bssn passage goes on for many measures, and features Brahms' rich writing for woodwinds...
Academic Festival Overture needs to be mentioned, as well - this is a fun piece, for sure...excellent bassoon part, esp the perky little duet for 2 bassoons - a bouncy little tune that needs to be played with plenty of playful accents...

of the Dvorak symphonies -I've played 6, 7, 8, 9 many times - esp 8 and 9....these are always fun to play...the "New World" is one symphony I've played more than any other except Beethoven 5, and maybe Schubert "Unfinished"....many good parts for bassoon - the bassoon joins the English horn on the last phrase of the famous 2nd mvt solo, clever little counter melodies in mvt IV, under the strings and woodwinds that need to be brought out....of course, there's the tricky little g# minor lick in the first mvt to keep everyone honest!!
Dvorak #6 has a fine bassoon part!! this is my favorite Dvorak symphony...the 2nd mvt is not his strongest, but mvts I, II and IV are truly outstanding....great fun to play.
#8 is good too - many colorful parts - my special favorite is the lovely, wistful oboe/bassoon duet in the Trio of mvt III...such a great melody, and so fun to play "_molto espressivo_"!
#7 is heavy for Dvorak....the scoring in some ways is more reminiscent of Brahms...a thicker texture overall...as always splendid writing for combinations of woodwinds...I esp enjoy mvt II - the scherzo - in which Dvorak superimposes the 6/4 melody over the 3/2 rhythmic background....very clever...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm not surprised to read the comments about the tendency of the Brahms Symphonies to get bogged down in a muddy mix of undistinguished lines and details. It makes me wonder if I've really heard what's in the music? Do I have any good recordings?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

starthrower said:


> I'm not surprised to read the comments about the tendency of the Brahms Symphonies to get bogged down in a muddy mix of undistinguished lines and details. It makes me wonder if I've really heard what's in the music? Do I have any good recordings?


Toscanini, Reiner and Solti always bring out the inner voices...they "get into " the score...Brahms is so rich with mid-range voices, it requires skilled conducting to bring these out.
A good personal example of "how not to do it" - an orchestra I played in was performing Amy Beach Gaelic" symphony....ok piece, not great, but very thickly scored, scored rather "Brahmsian", thick texture, but without the skill of the great master....lots of inner voices, counter melodies....but very covered due to thick texture..this conductor flubbed it completely, his solution was to have everyone, esp woodwinds, play with this wimpy, non-descript mezzo-piano/pianissimo dynamic....the result was a muddy, indistinguishable sonic oatmeal, in which nothing came thru...really frustrating to play..heard the concert tape....awful - measure upon measure of sonic sludge.
The conductor must find what is important in the score, and what is not important, or what is less important, and address the proper balance....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I do like the Solti cycle. I just had it out of the library. I need to buy a copy.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

starthrower said:


> I do like the Solti cycle. I just had it out of the library. I need to buy a copy.


Thst is a very excellent set...all top level, the #1 is really great...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

One of my favorite pieces to perform - at least the last 3 mvts - is Berlioz = Symphonie Fantastique...
The writing for bassoons is this work is truly unique, and really unprecedented....
Berlioz writes for the bassoons as a separate instrumental section - like the horns, trombones, trumpets....prior to Berlioz - bassoons were written in pairs [occasionally add contrabssn] in the classical "Harmoniemusik" style, with other pairs of woodwinds.
But Berlioz changes that in the latter mvts of Sym Fantastique - the bassoons are a separate entity - 4 bassoons, paired rather as I & III, II & IV [not always, tho], and they are given major work, which is challenging and rewarding. I can't imagine what the original musicians thought of this when they first played it - of course, that could apply to many other instruments as well 
No composer treated the bassoons in this fashion until Stravinsky, with Le Sacre Du Printemps in 1913. that work is another marvel of wondrous and original orchestration.

The March to the Scaffold has the bassoons tutti first crying out in the upper register,, as the unfortunate prisoner is paraded to his doom...then the bassoons, again tutti/divisi, playing the running eighth notes along with the pizzicato melody in the strings....this passage is tough, it covers 3 octave range - low Bb to Bb 3rd line treble clef...the danger here is that the strings tend to rush the pizzicati....there are many rests and space between the pizzicato notes, and the string players sometimes like to cheat, and shorten these spaces....this is disaster of course, because the bassoons are filling in all the spaces with their eighth notes....it is imperative that the strings listen to the bassoons to ensure the proper rhythm for the pizzicati notes...this passage leads straight into the famous march tune...

The Night of Witches" Sabbath mvt V - is a spectacular piece, full of great orchestration and again the bassoons get a rich share of the action...
When the clarinets introduce the twisted version of the main theme, the bassoons join in with their rapid fire ascending 16th note arpeggios....this is a difficult part, and always one of my pet audition licks to present to prospective orchestra candidates - there are repeated ascending arpeggios - all tongued, and fast....many bassoonists cannot tongue the notes fast enough - also - frequently, players in their efforts to master this part, distort the rhythm
there are 4 notes in each group the downbeat is accented/tenuto, like this: * _ ... _ ... _...*
but often it gets twisted around to this *..._ ..._ ..._*
This puts the tenuto on the top note, and produces a weird inaccurate triplet figure, which is distorted and wrong....

so I'd divvy up the parts among the 4 bassoons, with different articulations to make sure it was covered and sounded right....I can 2ble tongue so I played as written; another player would slur 2/tongue 2, the third player tongue 2/slur 2, the last player, slur them all...that way, every note was sounded, and every note articulated by at least 1/2 the section...it always worked well and we sounded impressive...:tiphat:

The bassoons then slur downward into the lowest register, and the "Dies Irae" tune is intoned by the 4 bassoons and 2 tubas...this is a truly remarkable sonority - because Berlioz scores the bassoons in their lowest register, and the tubas are an octave higher...this produces a huge, rich sonority....best when the reedy bassoons poke thru in the bass, with the huge resonant tubas sounding above...I always thought the bassoons should "lay on the edge", let it buzz and rattle a bit, [think Haydn #93 lol!!], to differentiate from the tubas...happily the conductors I worked with liked it that way too, in fact a few really loved it!!

There is another tough part in the final section [just after #82 Kalmus score] with woodwinds, tutti, playing fast triplets, with a fast trill/mordent on the first note of every triplet [2/bar]....it is difficult to to make this sound strong, so again we divvy up the parts - Bassoons I & III play just the triplets, II & IV play just the trills....this makes the passage quite easy, and you can really rattle the trills, and drive the triplets....I had a few conductors compliment the section on our fine work, that they hadn't heard that part sound so full and strong....well. of course, we're all great players!! :tiphat::angel: [Ah....the secrets of the trade!! :devil:]


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Heck, I love reading what you say about performing pieces of music. Sometimes I feel that I shouldnt have a clue what you're talking about (I've no musical education apart from playing guitar badly and using these two ears I have) but the way you explain things actually makes sense to me. Maybe that's because....
a) I understand more about music than I thought
B) You are a good teacher
whatever, your enthusiasm for the music you love shines through each post. Thank you.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand half of what's going on here, but am reading it enthusiastically!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Berlioz is a trip! A rule breaker who did things his own way. I've enjoyed the symphonie for 35 years and reading this inspires me to pick up some more recordings. I already have four but I don't think I have the most exciting performances. I want to hear Bernstein, Paray, and maybe Solti.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

starthrower said:


> Berlioz is a trip! A rule breaker who did things his own way. I've enjoyed the symphonie for 35 years and reading this inspires me to pick up some more recordings. I already have four but I don't think I have the most exciting performances. I want to hear Bernstein, Paray, and maybe Solti.


Both Solti recordings ['72 & '92] are terrific...the bassoon playing is absolutely stellar on both. Mitropoulos/NYPO is really great also... he emphasizes the many creepy, spooky points of the score...woodwind glissandi, muted brass, etc.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Merl said:


> Heck, I love reading what you say about performing pieces of music. Sometimes I feel that I shouldnt have a clue what you're talking about (I've no musical education apart from playing guitar badly and using these two ears I have) but the way you explain things actually makes sense to me. Maybe that's because....
> a) I understand more about music than I thought
> B) You are a good teacher
> whatever, your enthusiasm for the music you love shines through each post. Thank you.


Glad you are enjoying my posts..I wasn't sure how it would go over....I didn't want to get into too much "shop talk" - save that for "Bassoonists United" FB page - but I've always found that classical music listeners enjoy talking with, hearing from the performers themselves - the "view from the other side of the podium"", so to speak...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Just wanted to add that I too appreciate that Heck and Haub are frequent contributors and provide a perspective on what the music is like to play in an actual orchestra. I'm a non-musician but have a good ear, and you both point out things to listen for that may have escaped me (to say nothing about anecdotes about performance, other musicians and conductors).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

The symphonies of Tchaikovsky are, of course, an important part of the standard symphonic repertoire...they are some of the most often programmed works...I've played all of the Tchaikovsky symphonies, some of them many, many [too many] times....

I really enjoy the first three symphonies: #1 - Winter Dreams, #2 - Little Russian, #3 - "Polish".....they are fun to listen to, and they are very rewarding to play...there is a freshness, a straightforward tunefulness, colorful orchestration; without the melodramatic chest-beating, hair-pulling that so affects # 4-6.

#1 begins with a delightful solo for flute and bassoon, sort of wispy, flighty, like the first offerings of a fresh snowfall....the 2nd mvt features a lovely solo for oboe, which is then joined by bassoon and flute for a wonderful chamber-music passage of most attractive beauty...mvt III is the scherzando - which features a neat swinging little tune, that almost sounds like 2/4 rhythm played against 3/8 background...neat woodwind parts,ensemble and soli....the Finale is fun - the bassoons get to intone the opening tune, which will lead into the Allegro maestoso, and reappear in the main section...
Tchaik #1 is fun to play - the music is most refreshing....fun part

Sym #2 is fun also - lots of good bassoon work - the bassoon follows the horn solo in the opening....there is fine woodwind writing throughout - the quirky little march of the 2nd mvt features some nice clarinet/bassoon ensemble work....I esp like the finale, one of Tchaikovsky's best....PIT puts the little march tune thru a number of variations - nicely scored, clean, clear texture....I esp like the 2nd theme, syncopated in cut time....as it is developed, it begins to take on a real "swing" feel to it - almost like a Big Band lick!! The Abbado/CSO recording is awesome, man, they are really into it - like Duke Ellington or Count Basie!! really rocking!! lol!!

#3 I've only played twice, widely separated...it is wonderful to play....lovely counter melody to the mvt II Alla Tedesco...excellent woodwind writing throughout this movement...the middle - slow - mvt features a recurring bassoon/horn theme that sounds much like an eastern Orthodox church chant...interesting - Shostakovich uses a very similar them in mvt I of his Sym #11. the scherzo mvt is fast, and features wispy, flighty strings and WWs over sustained melodies in the trombone...Tchaikovsky could really orchestrate well, when he set himself to it...the finale is a fiery Polacca, in 3/4 time...and a rousing finale it is...I love the 2nd theme with its counter melody in the bass...this excellent symphony deserves much more program time than it receives.
Tchaik Sym #6 is rewarding, and challenging to play - has many fine bassoon parts - the excellent opening solo can work very well - low, dark....I played for one conductor, this is the guy who is obsessed with everything being played soft, _pianissimo_ - inaudibly soft even...who wanted it so soft that notes don't speak, as if that has some great musical value - "really taking a chance"!! - to me, as I was taught, missed notes, ones that don't speak, is a screw-up, a mistake....it's also cheating the audience....they paid for a ticket to hear the concert....what's with this playing so softly that it's inaudible out in the hall?? it's a bunch of bs.....anyway, this guy kept telling me to play the opening solo ultra-soft - he actually said it's OK if the first note didn't speak!! maybe ok with him - not ok with me, and I doubt ok with Tchaikovsky!! anyway, I played it perfectly, softly, but it was frustrating to work under that sort of limitation...I've always greatly admired the renditions by Leonard Sharrow [Reiner/CSO] - and Bill Polisi[Mitropoulos/NYPO] - beautiful, deep, dark sound - so rich and expressive..great playing!!
there are many solos in the first mvt, and a long difficult sustained solo in the last mvt for both bassoons, soli in unison....Tchaik did screw up in one place tho - at the end of the Adagio [mvt I] - the clarinet solo - there is gradual diminuendo in the clarinet, descending to lower and lower pitches...it gets out of range of the A clarinet, so Tchaik gives the last 4 notes to the bassoon - incredibly marked _pppppp_ - this is really unplayable, since the bassoon in lower register cannot play as softly as the clarinet, which is relatively easy to play softly in its low register, and it changes the timbre rather dramatically....most conductors simply have the bass clarinet play these notes - it preserves the timbre of the clarinet, and is easier to play very softly....one conductor asked me to play it on bassoon - I obliged, but I took off the bell and stuffed a rag into the truncated end of the bassoon so it was very muffled....it was amazingly soft, but tone-wise, it sounded nothing like a bassoon or a clarinet!! He opted for bass clarinet, I'm glad to say!!

Syms #4 and 5 get played way too often, IMO....I've played them each so many times that I really suffer from over-kill, over-exposure...there are some very famous solos for bassoon, but I ceased to be excited by these some time ago...if I never ave to play either of them again, that would be fine....the slow mvt of #4 has a nice solo at the end, and the waltz of #5 is a major solo...Every new conductor always felt the need to program these two warhorses in the first 2 or 3 seasons they led....
I much prefer the first three symphonies for their freshness, tunefulness, and rewarding experience....


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Have you played any of Tchaikovsky's Suites for Orchestra?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Becca said:


> Have you played any of Tchaikovsky's Suites for Orchestra?


yes, a while back - IIRC, #2 or 3....

I like playing Capriccio Italian, and Marche Slav....1812 is ok....one of those things like Stars/Stripes Forever....you're going to play it a million times...
the concerti are fun to play - Vln Concerto has excellent bassoon and clarinet parts. Piano concerto [#1] is good also...
the ballets are excellent as well - Love the Nutcracker - has a long strenuous part, with lots of important solos - have played it zillions of times, but always enjoyed it....I particularly love the end of Act I - the Pas de deux of Clara and Prince, leading to Snowflakes...and the opening of Act II...it's the dreamy, fantasy music as they are transported to the magic land - sounds almost Impressionistic in passages...you've got to bring your "A" game to the show...Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty are excellent too...Never played complete "Sleeping Beauty"...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

The symphonies of Sibelius and Shostakovich are some of the most rewarding to perform - great bassoon parts, both composers wrote so well for the instrument - utilizing its expressive tonal capabilities and its great extensive range...In the works of these composers we hear the low, reedy, thick, growly low notes, and esp with DS, the extended high range....Sibelius doesn't write as high as Shostakovich, but he gets it up there pretty well - to High A, Bb, B on occasion...
lots of solos in all ranges, and great sounding section soli for pairs, or bassoons plus contra.
I wish that Shostakovich had written a bassoon concerto!! would have been awesome!!

I've performed all of the Sibelius except #s 3 and 6....#1 is a real delight, I loved the piece before I ever played it, and enjoy it now more than ever...lots of important parts,, and some tricky stuff, too - scherzo - wonderful solo/duet passage in mvt II after the opening statement...

I've played #2 many times - great part - important soli/duet right at the beginning after the string opening....many solos throughout, and of course, major soli for 2 bassoons in mvt II when they present the main tune in a long passage in octaves over pizzicato bass strings....Sibelius #2 is a monster part, with lots of important passages, and lots of notes....

#5 is wonderful to play also - big mid-range solo in mvt I, legato, moving around the main theme, kind of "moaning", or humming leading to orchestra tutti....the scherzo [part 2 of mvt I] opens with the delicious rising scale passage in thirds of the 2 bassoons, to be joined by other woodwinds....
#4 and 7 are very enjoyable to play, as well - #4 has some really juicy low register passages, in keeping with the general tone of the work - lots of long, sustained tones, crescendi.....

An interesting anecdote regarding Sym #2 - we were auditioning conductors to assume the role of Music director for one of my orchestras, and this candidate chose Sibelius #2 as his work to perform....This guy was generally ok, nothing great, but very enthusiastic - anyway - he either loved the bassoon, or had a serious hearing impairment - he wanted everything from the bassoons to be louder..."louder, more bassoons...bassoons give me more at letter %&^" it was amazing because we were laying into it pretty good and putting out a lot of sound...he still wanted more...ok, for the big soli passage in mvt II I used a top solo reed, I wanted that to sound very beautiful.....for the rest of the piece, I used a really loud, raucous, raspy reed, one that I might use for an outdoor concert with 1812 Overture, Sousa marches, etc....IOW - a real "*Buzz Bomb*" - lots of projection, let's not worry about tone :lol: This seemed to satisfy the Maestro, finally....so we played the concert, and the bassoons were ultra loud....
I later heard the recorded concert tape - geezus!! all the notes are there - sticking right out!! I played 'em....can't say I was too thrilled with the result, tho....

Shostakovich wrote superb bassoon parts, some really major league stuff - bassoon was one of his favorite instruments - all of his works feature great parts - in addition to the symphonies, the concerti, film music, and esp the big ballets - Golden Age, and the Bolt.....great bassoon parts!!
Of his works I've been lucky enough to play #1, #5 [many times][, #7 [twice], #9 [several]....I never got to play #s 4, 8 or 10, all of which have major bassoon parts....of course, these symphonies are not programmed too often, except by the major orchestras, because they are exceedingly difficult to put together....many smaller orchestras program #5 but they probably shouldn't!!
#7 has some big solos - esp in the first mvt - it alternates with the oboe on one of the early variations of the big march tune - and after the huge climax, DS gives the bassoon the long lament of grief and loss, _molto espressivo_....great solo to play, but it requires a lot of air - some long sustained notes, and long phrases - you have to get together with the conductor to let him know where you intend to breathe, that he can give you a little time to sneak in a breath...
Sym #9 has a wonderful bassoon part - in fact, the bassoon gets the entire 4th mvt as a solo!! well, the brass make the introduction, and the interlude, but it's the bassoon's show!! 
This piece has a special significance to me, as my first performance of it came at a rather crucial time in my musical training and development. I was a freshman at Eastman School, and I drew the assignment to play principal on Shost #9, with Walter Hendl conducting....Hendl was at the time, the Director of the school, and at times would conduct the school orchestras....Hendl held numerous posts, but his most notable was as Reiner's assistant in Chicago during the 50s- early 60s...a great conductor, Hendl knew exactly what he wanted, how to get it, how to fix things - he was also a miserable tyrant, a real domineering bully, first class sob - he was Reiner's clone....his rehearsals could be murder, if he singled somebody out for totally demolition....if he detected any weakness, tentativeness,uncertainty, he would swoop in for the kill, and reduce the unfortunate musical miscreant to a quivering glob of jelly....gawd, he could be nasty!!
Needless to say, the prospect of performing a major solo work with Hendl was a pretty frightening prospect...hopefully it would go well, but if it didn't...?? This was a real test for me - I was only a freshman, so I faced a crux point in my training - if I pulled this off and did well, maybe I had the "right stuff" to go on?? If I screwed it up, did poorly, maybe better to find something else to do....
I don't think I've ever been so scared as that first rehearsal with Hendl on the podium....but the rehearsal went well, he made one small suggestion about a phrasing change he wanted, and I fixed it to his satisfaction....he didn't rip me to pieces, so all in all, the rehearsal was a big success!! :tiphat: 
I felt as if a 500lb weight had been taken off me....
the concert went very well, we delivered a very exciting performance...I got a nice solo bow, shuffle from the orchestra musicians...and it was a big success...I had passed my own trial, and on I went!!

A couple years later - another Hendl story - he was conducting a rehearsal of Debussy - Nocturnes, iirc - I was playing principal...he was on the warpath that day, going after the strings esp, but everyone was on alert....on some solo entrance, I cracked my first note...Hendl stopped a short time later, addressed a problem - looked at me - 
"Bassoon - was that your mistake, or was it _"the reed's fault"_??" ......he said _the reed's fault_ with almost a sneer, a really sarcastic slur to his delivery....s--t, I thought, this was a loaded question, a trap....he was just waiting to pounce....so I quickly responded - 
"It's my fault, I made the reed!!" Hendl glared at me for a second, then shrugged, almost chuckled, looked at the violins "Well, at least he's honest!!" turned to the strings - "Violins - letter D"......I felt the near miss whistle past my head....


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