# Music similar to early Webern



## prestige (Mar 5, 2021)

Hi all,

have found out about a lot of composers I had never heard of thanks to this forum. Would love to call on your collective knowledge regarding music that sounds similar to early Webern, I am thinking particularly of the chamber music:
















Also the very early songs:






Looking forward to your response!


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

The man you are looking for is probably Strauss, in particular

Late late Richard Strauss
*
Metamorphosen for 23 strings (1945)*

Vier letzte Lieder for high voice and orchestra (1948)

Also Strauss-influenced tonal Schoenberg


String Quartet No. "0" in D major (1897)

*Verklärte Nacht* (Transfigured Night), Op. 4, for string sextet (1899)

Gurre-Lieder, cantata (sometimes considered an oratorio) (1903)

Weihnachtsmusik (Christmas Music) (1921)


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## prestige (Mar 5, 2021)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> The man you are looking for is probably Strauss, in particular
> 
> Late late Richard Strauss
> *
> ...


Great suggestions, thank you!


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

The tonal period Webern. You might like Medtner piano and chamber and check out Wellesz piano works and string quartets.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

And some users don't think that the SVS were masters in common practice composition.


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## Zwolfton Musik (Jun 13, 2014)

I would also look at some of the non-Germanic composers from the Post Wars years. Expressionism came a little later to Scandanavia and blended with influences from Scriabin AND Sibelius as in works by Ernest Pingoud, Väino Raitio and the early works of Aarre Merikanto. There are also some Dutch composers who briefly entered into that over-heated late-Romantic sound world and beyond, whose names are works were largely erased during the Nazis occupation. Much find music there to discover, though. https://forbiddenmusic.org/2015/10/09/the-lost-legacy-of-the-netherlands/


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

chu42 said:


> And some users don't think that the SVS were masters in common practice composition.


Yes, I enjoyed clicking through the OP's links and was surprised by how lovely the music is.


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## prestige (Mar 5, 2021)

gregorx said:


> The tonal period Webern. You might like Medtner piano and chamber and check out Wellesz piano works and string quartets.


I listened to Medtner's Piano quintet in C Major - marvelous! Also tried Wellesz quartet no.3; very good. Thanks for the recommendations!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

..................................................


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Korngold: Lieder des Abschieds
Anne Sofie von Otter, soprano

- Piano Quartets by Mahler, Strauss, Reger -- a bit earlier, where Webern "came from" ...
- Florent Schmitt (e.g. Piano Quintet) from Alsace, was the most "German" of French composers
- perhaps the early Bartok Piano Quartet and Piano Quintet


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## prestige (Mar 5, 2021)

Roger Knox said:


> Korngold: Lieder des Abschieds
> Anne Sofie von Otter, soprano
> 
> - Piano Quartets by Mahler, Strauss, Reger -- a bit earlier, where Webern "came from" ...
> ...


Great suggestions, thanks! Especially enjoying Schmitt, of whom I had no knowledge at all.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

chu42 said:


> And some users don't think that the SVS were masters in common practice composition.


I have often wondered if the anti-modernists on TC think that, composers of the 2nd Viennese School, and composers from post 1950's, don't fully understand, both in theory and in practice, common practice?

Do they think that when they were in conservatory, they didn't fully cover that curriculum, or even know it themselves before they entered their studies? Just as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et. al., knew their predecessors music, so do modern composers know their's.

I would be very surprised if any composer from these modern eras could not compose a piece, that would sound as if it came from the classical era. Maybe the melodies and themes would not be up to the standards of the best of that era, but I am pretty sure it would sound like it was composed in 1800.

It's not as if they lack those skills, it may be because they may believe, those earlier styles had no where else to go, besides repeating themselves.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Simon Moon said:


> I have often wondered if the anti-modernists on TC think that, composers of the 2nd Viennese School, and composers from post 1950's, don't fully understand, both in theory and in practice, common practice?
> 
> Do they think that when they were in conservatory, they didn't fully cover that curriculum, or even know it themselves before they entered their studies? Just as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et. al., knew their predecessors music, so do modern composers know their's.
> 
> ...


I think you're absolutely right, as a matter of fact I was going to write something similar in response before I saw your comment. I think that to break rules you have to know them, how could you move forward if you don't know what came before you?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Simon Moon said:


> I have often wondered if the anti-modernists on TC think that, composers of the 2nd Viennese School, and composers from post 1950's, don't fully understand, both in theory and in practice, common practice?
> 
> Do they think that when they were in conservatory, they didn't fully cover that curriculum, or even know it themselves before they entered their studies? Just as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et. al., knew their predecessors music, so do modern composers know their's.


It's very strange. I once mentioned the idea that avant-garde composers were all extremely competent in traditional composition, and the anti-modernists expressed extreme skepticism along the lines of "people of such poor taste surely could not compose any good music".

It seems to me that the anti-modernists really do not have much knowledge of the very composers they are arguing against. When I pointed out the inclusion of Ligeti, Stockhausen, and Xenakis in the canon and certain users were adamant that it wasn't true, despite the fact that this is relatively commonplace knowledge among those experience in classical music.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

Simon Moon said:


> Do they think that when they were in conservatory, they didn't fully cover that curriculum, or even know it themselves before they entered their studies? Just as Beethoven, Bach, Mozart et. al., knew their predecessors music, so do modern composers know their's.


This actually reminded me of an interview of Elliott Carter. He was asked about how he feels about teaching, and talking about students who've come to him with a wish to compose more "traditional" sounding music, Carter expressed his worry that a lot of these students don't have an intimate knowledge of the past composers' work. So he wasn't against people composing in an "older style" at all, but rather of the opinion that people just don't do it _well enough_. More studies of harmony, counterpoint, form - that was his medicine! I wonder what the situation is these days.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Janspe said:


> This actually reminded me of an interview of Elliott Carter. He was asked about how he feels about teaching, and talking about students who've come to him with a wish to compose more "traditional" sounding music, Carter expressed his worry that a lot of these students don't have an intimate knowledge of the past composers' work. So he wasn't against people composing in an "older style" at all, but rather of the opinion that people just don't do it _well enough_. More studies of harmony, counterpoint, form - that was his medicine! I wonder what the situation is these days.


I always think what if i were a composer. And if i were one, i would have composed 7 symphonies similar to Bruckner's, except shorter in length each lasting movement lasting around 10 minutes! Would've been fun.


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