# Underrated Works By Beethoven.



## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

Beethoven is my third favorite composer of all time only surpassed by Mozart and Bach. He has a great library of works but some of those works I consider very underrated and should be placed among his more famous works such as his Symphonies. Here's some of my choices and tell me what you think of them and some of your choices. 

Octet Op. 103
Sextet Op. 71
Trio for Two Oboes and English Horn Op. 87
Rondo WoO 25
Three Equale for Four Trombones WoO 30
March in D Major WoO 24
Any Piano Sonata that isn't famous like the Moonlight or Appassionata, Most notably Sonatas 1,2,3, 12 and 18 off the top of my head.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I can't say I have found obscure Beethoven that worthwhile, after venturing outside the sphere of his well-known works, I can recall only couple of things.

One of these is overture to _King Stephan_, tuneful orchestral piece:


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## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

Aramis said:


> One of these is overture to _King Stephan_, tuneful orchestral piece:


That's a great overture and surely underrated. My favorite overtures of his along with King Stephan would be the Egmont and Leonore No. 1.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

In terms of being rarely played/recorded, the String Trios op.9


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I would consider the cello sonatas underrated. That's because there seem to be quite a few knowledgeable people who don't much care for them. I could never understand that!


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

The Bagatelles
Symphony No. 1
Symphony No. 8 (yes, it's underrated)
Piano Sonata No. 7


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I agree with the string trios op. 9 - op. 1 too, though they seem to be fairly well represented. 

Possibly my favorite underrated Beethoven is the Horn sonata, Op. 17. It is supposedly unsophisticated compared to many of his other works, but who cares? It sounds amazing.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The horn sonata was premiered by Beethoven and Stich in 1800. From a review of that performance: "The sonata pleased so much that, in spite of the new theatre regulations, which forbid da capo and loud applause in the Court theatre, the virtuosos were nevertheless moved by loud applause to start from the top and repeat the work after they had finished." They don't do that sort of thing any more!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2013)

Cello Sonata No. 2 should be a favorite but it's not


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I don't hear the Piano Trios discussed much, but I thoroughly enjoy these works. Not just the famous Archduke, but also the two Pianos Trios Op. 70, with an honourable mention for the Kakadu Variations


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Winterreisender said:


> I don't hear the Piano Trios discussed much, but I thoroughly enjoy these works. Not just the famous Archduke, but also the two Pianos Trios Op. 70, with an honourable mention for the Kakadu Variations


The opus one trio of piano trios are also excellent, in my opinion.

I like his 12 Variations on 'See the conqu'ring hero comes', WoO45.

Let's hear it as well for the last violin sonata, Op. 96, a work of serene beauty.


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

I've a soft spot for the Eighth Symphony - which seems to get less exposure than the other mature symphonies.

I love the Piano Trio Op 70 No. 2 - pretty open and relaxed music.

I like the cello sonatas - the last two of which were written in that mysterious phase in which he worked out his third period style.

Also I love the lesser known mature piano sonatas No. 22 (Op. 54), No. 24 (Op. 78) and No. 27 (Op. 90). The last movement of Op. 90 sounds as if Schubert wrote it!


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I'd say the octet and 32 variations in c-minor are not as performed as I'd like them to be.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

shangoyal said:


> The Bagatelles
> Symphony No. 1
> Symphony No. 8 (yes, it's underrated)
> Piano Sonata No. 7


I don't think any of those are underrated.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Of course I'm not sure what is meant by underrated here,but not heard enough would include "Christ On the Mount Of Olives" which I rate highly.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

_An die ferne Geliebte_ (To the distant beloved), Op. 98

Possibly the first true song cycle... and the model for Schubert's subsequent masterful work in the genre.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

The Triple Concerto. Not exactly obscure, but it seems underplayed and people often dis it.


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## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

moody said:


> Of course I'm not sure what is meant by underrated here.


In this case of being underrated, I meant it to mean a work by Beethoven that doesn't get a lot of attention compared to his famous works like his Symphonies or Piano Concertos.


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## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

moody said:


> I don't think any of those are underrated.


Personally, I consider his First Symphony overrated.


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## MozartEarlySymphonies (Nov 29, 2013)

Winterreisender said:


> I don't hear the Piano Trios discussed much, but I thoroughly enjoy these works. Not just the famous Archduke, but also the two Pianos Trios Op. 70, with an honourable mention for the Kakadu Variations


I love the Op. 70 Piano Trios. Below is a good underrated recording of them.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

GioCar said:


> In terms of being rarely played/recorded, the String Trios op.9





KenOC said:


> I would consider the cello sonatas underrated. That's because there seem to be quite a few knowledgeable people who don't much care for them. I could never understand that!


I was thinking about both of these. I really treasure the cello sonatas, mostly 3, 4 and 5. I have no idea why but the adagio of his 3rd cello sonata blows my mind. I heard it once while in a half-asleep, half-awake state(the BEST for listening to music) and I thought i was in heaven. The rest of the 3rd is perfect in my opinion as well, with unreal melodies. And as for the 4th and 5th sonata, I don't say this lightly, I don't think I can say I like any other music in the world as much as these magical pieces. They take me to another world. Of course, they are bordering on his late period so I guess nothing else could be expected.

Oh and to edit here and add one more, I have to mention Beethoven's 15th piano sonata "Pastorale". The first movement of this piece is another of my favorite pieces of music. It sounds very spiritual and choral-like.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

There is a Wind Sextet Op 71 that is delightful (2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 bassoons). I played one of the horn parts in a chamber group in college (back when the Dead Sea was still alive). Its an early work from the Bonn days so its very much in the Classical mold but it is very well written and fun to play.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

moody said:


> I don't think any of those are underrated.


Maybe you are right, I just meant they were all better than I expected them to be.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Olias said:


> There is a Wind Sextet Op 71 that is delightful (2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 bassoons). I played one of the horn parts in a chamber group in college (back when the Dead Sea was still alive). Its an early work from the Bonn days so its very much in the Classical mold but it is very well written and fun to play.


Beethoven wrote a few of these "lighter" works, none in the heaven-storming category and so often overlooked. The Octet Op. 103 was mentioned a while back, but how many know of the String Quintet Op. 4, which (despite the opus number) is a "new and improved" version of the much earlier Octet? Fine stuff!

Another string quintet, the Op. 29, was written as Beethoven launched into his middle period. Solid gold. But it seems to get little notice.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

... or indeed the String Quintet Op. 104, a version of Piano Trio Op.1/3. I love the charming and whimsical Fugue for String Quintet Op. 137


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Though they don't sell tickets and fill up seats like the others, I think the first two symphonies are very underrated. They make me think of a nice summer day, very charming. They also have the unique orchestration and ideas that Beethoven is well known for, and they have little quirks and humorous moments that remind us Haydn was his teacher once.

In general I think much of pre-Heroic Beethoven is underrated. His first piano sonata is a favorite of mine, very nocturnal, with just the right balance of lightness and heaviness.

His Piano Sonata No. 22 in F is another sonata that, as others have mentioned, is overshadowed by the extraordinary popularity of the sonatas around it. I think it's a very energetic piece that deserves more attention.

Finally, his Choral Fantasy is usually forgotten, though it seems to have had it's own little revival recently. If you haven't heard it, it's for piano chorus and orchestra, and starts out in C minor (of course) with an improv-like intro, then comes in the orchestra with variations on a theme that sounds a lot like Ode to Joy. Then the chorus comes in for a grand finale to a very majestic work that I would consider to be a good introduction to the Romantic era.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

spradlig said:


> The Triple Concerto. Not exactly obscure, but it seems underplayed and people often dis it.


I think the problem here is the expense of getting three good soloists together, but I've heard no "dissing".

What about : Sonatina in C Minor for Mandoline and Cembalo.
Sonatina in C major " " "
Adagio in E Flat Major for " " "
Theme and Variations In D major " "

Variations for 'Cello and Piano on "Bei Maennern Welche Lieben Fuelen " and "Ein Maedchen Oder Weibchen ". from 
Mozart's "Die Zauberfloete ".

Variations for piano on : "God Save the King ".
Variations On " La stessa ,la stessissima " from "Falstaff " (Salieri ).
Variations On "Une fievre brulante" from "Richard Coeur de Lion" (Gretry ).
Six Easy Variations in G Major.
Variations on "Menuet a la Vigano " from "Le Nozze Disturbate" (Handel). 
Variations On "Nel Cor Piu Non Mi Sento" from "La Molinara" (Paisello).

Beethoven's arrangement of his violin concerto as a piano concerto--this is great fun. 
Your friends know it but can they guess it, often not !!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> _An die ferne Geliebte_ (To the distant beloved), Op. 98
> 
> Possibly the first true song cycle... and the model for Schubert's subsequent masterful work in the genre.


I've always loved it, first time I heard DF-D from the fifties and I still play it although I'm not normally a fan.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

MozartEarlySymphonies said:


> Personally, I consider his First Symphony overrated.


It's a really consistent piece. The last movement is one of his best symphonic finales I think, the scherzo is also really good. So it avoids the trap of fading away after the strong opening.

I'm sure I agree with quite a few things mentioned here. For example the second sonata, which I heard had a Russian story inspired by it (The Garnet Bracelet by Kuprin). The whole work is good, the slow movement being particularly expressive.






I remembering listening to his early chamber music and thinking works were underrated, particularly perhaps in the wind music. I think the problem is people wanting to forget that Beethoven belonged to the classical period, so any pieces pointing in that direction will be ignored. A corrolory to this problem is an over-romantic performance of pieces which distort them into sounding bad. The two most ignored sonatas are probably 19 and 20. 19 in particular is pretty good, but the first movement is sometimes performed very dourly and without some more subtle expression/dynamics. This sounds a pretty good performance of it.






Yes it's a technically simple piece compared to some other sonatas but that doesn't mean it's bad. Mozart did a simple sonata too K545 and that doesn't face criticism so much does it?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

4th symphony, unexplicably the least often performed of the nine symphonies . The Mass in C.
The Choral Fantasy .


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

The trios Op. 1 are really good. Don't know how well rated they are though.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's the beginning of a choral work by a very young Beethoven that may be surprising.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This one is nearly an opera for it drama:


moody said:


> Of course I'm not sure what is meant by underrated here,but not heard enough would include "Christ On the Mount Of Olives" which I rate highly.


Both of these are underrated in my opinion:







Glorreiche Augenblick "the Glorious Moment" and the Choral Fantasy.

I am very familiar with the Choral Fantasy and love that it starts like a piano sonata, then becomes like a piano sonata, and then finally enter the voices. I do like sung German.

EDIT: Oh let me add the Mass in C as underrated.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

The choral fantasy surely has one of the most ridiculous themes Beethoven ever did. I can't listen to THAT part without embarassement.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

My favorite Beethoven works are his first piano sonata, his archduke piano trio and his 3rd and 4th Piano concertos, so from my perspective his most underrated work is his first piano sonata.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I actually like the Choral Fantasy. To me, it seems underrated and underplayed (at least on classical radio- I don't know how often it's performed in concert). I don't know what critics think - am I supposed to like it? The main theme of the choral part is very similar to the melody of the Ode to Joy, isn't it?

This is largely a matter of taste (unless there is some objective reason why the Choral Fantasy is good or bad), and I respect your point of view.



Aramis said:


> The choral fantasy surely has one of the most ridiculous themes Beethoven ever did. I can't listen to THAT part without embarassement.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Aramis said:


> The choral fantasy surely has one of the most ridiculous themes Beethoven ever did. I can't listen to THAT part without embarassement.


I find the Choral Fantasy to be a delightful work and have read that it pre-figures the Ninth Symphony in that the last part is choral. I would be interested in learning more about the reason you don't care for it.

I will add that the most over rated (I know I am getting the topic backward) piece, or should I say over played, is Für Elise. It is not a bad piece, but I think there have been media associations, movies it was played as part of, is put on every Beethoven introduction disk, etc. that it has become burned out.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Here's the beginning of a choral work by a very young Beethoven that may be surprising.


Very beautiful. Thanks for posting that.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Choral Fantasy, third movement, the choral part


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

op.54 is a bit unloved, or as unloved as one of his sonatas can be.
...deserves better.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Couac Addict said:


> op.54 is a bit unloved, or as unloved as one of his sonatas can be.
> ...deserves better.


I pretty much ignored Op. 54 until I heard Schiff's lecture on it. That was an eye (or ear) opener! I can't recommend Schiff's extensive lectures on every single sonata too highly -- they're available as MP3s at the Guardian's site.

Think you know all there is to know about any of these sonatas? You may be surprised.

http://music.theguardian.com/classical/page/0,,1943867,00.html


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

TallPaul said:


> I find the Choral Fantasy to be a delightful work and have read that it pre-figures the Ninth Symphony in that the last part is choral. I would be interested in learning more about the reason you don't care for it.


It's not that I don't care. There are some great moments in it and I appreciate the whole work, the only thing that spoils it for me it the secondary theme. The one introduced by winds later in the piece, after some developement on the main theme is done.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

The incidental music Beethoven wrote for a play entitled _Leonore Prohaska_ WoO 96 is certainly fairly obscure. The funeral march is an orchestration of Beethoven's own Op. 26 piano sonata.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

shangoyal said:


> The Bagatelles
> Symphony No. 1
> Symphony No. 8 (yes, it's underrated)
> Piano Sonata No. 7


I agree but the symphony 7 sounds WAY BETTER than 1 or 8.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

mtmailey said:


> I agree but the symphony 7 sounds WAY BETTER than 1 or 8.


The 7th is more expansive and grand, also a personal favourite of mine. But the 8th is no less. The 1st is an early work but it is truly Beethovenian and has a unique charm only seen in the works of a budding composer who is more enthusiastic and fresh in his musical thought. I can always listen to it and enjoy it a lot.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Couac Addict said:


> op.54 is a bit unloved, or as unloved as one of his sonatas can be.
> ...deserves better.


But, as I said already, 19 and 20 tend to be the most unloved.

I thought of another..
op18 no3 great work. One of my favourites of his quartets, not 'big' enough sounding to get critical acclaim like some of the others of Op18, but I don't care less. More of a Mozartean fluency to it.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I have heard that Brahms's Double Concerto is less often performed than it ought to be for the same reason.



moody said:


> I think the problem here is the expense of getting three good soloists together, but I've heard no "dissing".
> 
> What about : Sonatina in C Minor for Mandoline and Cembalo.
> Sonatina in C major " " "
> ...


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I agree with you about Beethoven's First Symphony. I think the last movement is terrific. I prefer it to his Second, which is generally considered better.



starry said:


> It's a really consistent piece. The last movement is one of his best symphonic finales I think, the scherzo is also really good. So it avoids the trap of fading away after the strong opening.
> 
> I'm sure I agree with quite a few things mentioned here. For example the second sonata, which I heard had a Russian story inspired by it (The Garnet Bracelet by Kuprin). The whole work is good, the slow movement being particularly expressive.
> 
> ...


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I definitely prefer it to the second (and some others) as well. The second does have a great slow intro, nice first movement development and great slow movement, but I definitely prefer the final two movements of the 1st and the first two movements aren't bad either really.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Pastoral symphony is underrated, with many folks preferring the bombast of the 5th and 7th to the poetic sensitivity of the former. For me, it is his greatest work.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> In general I think much of pre-Heroic Beethoven is underrated. His first piano sonata is a favorite of mine, very nocturnal, with just the right balance of lightness and heaviness.





hpowders said:


> The Pastoral symphony is underrated, with many folks preferring the bombast of the 5th and 7th to the poetic sensitivity of the former. For me, it is his greatest work.


I concur with the above sentiments. Nowadays, my favourite Beethoven works come from his first period, and as for the symphonies, I greatly prefer the first two, and after that the even numbered ones, to the more heavyweight ones. This is not to say that I disrespect the other work, or deny its historical importance. There's a just a bit too much Beethoven in them to my taste. 

As for my choices for underrated works, I'll stick out my neck very far and nominate the piano quartets, WoO 36, that he wrote in his mid teens. They already have Beethoven written all over them and seem to me to belie the notion that he wasn't a youthful prodigy. Surely not his greatest works, but a delight on the ear.


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## Fried fifer (Dec 14, 2013)

I really love his 1st Sonata. Especially the fourth movement, I think it really shows what Beethoven was all about in five short minutes. Anger, beauty, genius, passion, all in one movement and in such an early work. I've probably listened to it a hundred times and it is the sole reason I am as good at piano as I am now. I cant fathom why it isn't as appreciated as some of his other piano music.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

^ I completely agree about Beethoven's 1st Sonata, perhaps his later sonatas are more innovative and I respect that, but none seem better composed to me or more enjoyable to listen to than his 1st. As cosmos put it there is just the right balance. I think it is a masterpiece and a near-perfect composition.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Probably not underrated in the grand scheme of things, but I often think that Op. 127 doesn't get as much love or mention as the other late quartets. The first movement is beautifully lyrical with unusually high (for the time) cello and viola parts. The second movement variations are just as great imo as the variation movement in Op. 131. The third movement is incredibly varied, manic and bursting with nervous energy. And I love the country bumpkin inflections of the last movement.

I'm guessing it doesn't get as much attention because it doesn't share the thematic unity between the middle three late quartets and it is still in the standard classical format as far as movements go. Op. 135 suffers from a similar fate.

Also, I hate to be a Negative Nancy but I do kind of think "underrated" is being over used a bit. I mean, are all these little piano pieces by Beethoven _really_ underrated or are they nice and likeable pieces that are nevertheless fairly ranked not as popular in correct proportion to their quality? It seems to happen a lot here that "underrated pieces by x composer" threads become "Name as many random, rarely heard pieces by x composer as possible" threads.


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## csacks (Dec 5, 2013)

I believe that the first piano concert, whose last movement is a delight, receives less attention than the others, which are at least as beautiful as this one.
In between the compositions for cello and piano there are some variations from a theme from Judas Maccabeus which are very solemn and beautiful. Probably because in the synagogues there is the same piece that it is so close to me (albeit I am not that close to liturgy), but I like them so much and they are not that popular.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

How about Christ on the Mount of Olives? That is a very nice work. And of course Fidelio is a great work, sometimes underrated.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The late Bagatelles. Fabulously witty, inventive music.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Cello sonatas and creatures of Prometheus


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I think his 32 variations in C minor on an original theme are underrated - I recently discovered the piece and wondered why one doesn't hear of it that much.


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