# Most Under-Appreciated Composers.



## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm curious what composers you find to be under-appreciated, and by that I mean not listened to enough. (Please take note that this is not my opinion, just an example.) It could be someone major who is already respected and already performed often, like Saint-Saens or Mendelsohn, or could be someone less known like Crusell. Again, it's not necessarily someone who's not well known, but someone who you feel should be listened to more.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm surprised no one picked this up. Isn't this like our dream question? 

I don't mean that all of the following are equally under-appreciated, or that they ought to be appreciated more. I only mean that my sense of how much their music is enjoyed (i.e. how popular they are) is less than my sense of how much it could be enjoyed (i.e. how much I enjoy their music).

Babbitt 
Byrd 
Cage
Crumb
D'Indy 
Dohnanyi 
Dufay 
Dutilleux 
Enescu 
Faure 
Frescobaldi 
Handl-Gallus
Hartmann 
Haydn 
Henze 
Hindemith
Janacek 
Kilar 
Kodaly
Literes 
Luython 
Martinu 
Pachelbel 
Palestrina 
Rzewski 
Schoenberg 
Victoria 
Zelenka


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Witold Lutosławski
Brian Ferneyhough
Richard Barrett
Michael Finnissy
Aribert Reimann
Harry Partch
Helmut Lachenmann
Luigi Nono
Luciano Berio
Hans-Joachim Hespos
Friedrich Cerha
Beat Furrer
Georg Friedrich Haas* (Admittedly, a lot of his music just sounds like a suspense film score)
*Henry Purcell*

Witold Lutosławski's relative obscurity is incomprehensible to me. At the very least, he is Stravinsky's equal.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Morimur said:


> *Witold Lutosławski
> Brian Ferneyhough
> Richard Barrett
> Michael Finnissy
> ...


I considered putting Nono on my list, but my sense is that he's become fairly popular here now.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I've said this in another occasion, but anyway the more I listen to Maurice Ohana the more I feel he was really one of the giants of the twentieth century.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Malcolm Arnold
Witold Lutoslawski
William Mathias

Renaissance Music


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

norman bates said:


> I've said this in another occasion, but anyway the more I listen to Maurice Ohana the more I feel he was really one of the giants of the twentieth century.


I should mention that I've been listening to him (and Alec Wilder, btw) on your recommendation. Thanks for the great tip!


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2015)

Well, the OP poses a big question. Let's start with some of the 50 composers originally "contracted" to write a variation on a theme by publisher Diabelli, many of whom are under-appreciated:

Ignaz Assmayer (or Aßmayer)
Carl Maria von Bocklet
Leopold Eustachius Czapek (or Čapek)
Carl Czerny
Joseph Czerny
Moritz Graf von Dietrichstein
Joseph Drechsler
Emanuel Aloys Förster
Franz Jakob Freystädtler
Johann Baptist Gänsbacher
Joseph Gelinek (Abbé Gelinek)
Anton Halm
Joachim Hoffmann
Johann Horzalka
Joseph Huglmann (or Hugelmann)
Johann Nepomuk Hummel
Anselm Hüttenbrenner
Friedrich Kalkbrenner
Friedrich August Kanne
Joseph Kerzkowsky
Conradin Kreutzer
Eduard Baron von Lannoy
Maximilian Joseph Leidesdorf
Joseph Mayseder
Ignaz Moscheles
Ignaz Franz Edler von Mosel
Franz Xaver Wolfgang Mozart
Joseph Panny
Hieronymus Payer
Johann Peter Pixis
Wenzel Plachy
Gottfried Rieger
Philipp Jakob Riotte
Franz Roser (Franz de Paula Roser)
Johann Baptist Schenk
Franz Schoberlechner
Simon Sechter
Maximilian Stadler
Joseph von Szalay (or de Szalay)
Wenzel Johann Tomaschek (Václav Tomášek)
Michael Umlauf
Friedrich Dionysius Weber (Bedřich Diviš Weber)
Franz Weber
Carl Angelus von Winkhler
Franz Weiss
Johann Nepomuk August Wittasek (= Jan August Vitásek)
Johann Hugo Worzischek (Jan Václav Voříšek)
Carl Czerny


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

William Schuman
Vincent Persichetti
Peter Mennin
Franz Schmidt


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2015)

I just noticed in my post #8 above that Carl Czerny gets a double mention. That's because they were probably twins. Or something.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

So many, but I will drop just one name: E.J. Moeran.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Blancrocher said:


> I should mention that I've been listening to him (and Alec Wilder, btw) on your recommendation. Thanks for the great tip!


I'm glad that you liked his music and Wilder too obviously, I've not mentioned him only because I feel like I'm a bit obsessive advocating his music


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

science said:


> I'm surprised no one picked this up.


We could start a poll; *Reasons why this wasn't picked up much * (No,please .... let''s not!!)

Options might include some of the following (this is not an exhaustive list!):

1. We seem to have had a similar question a number of times
2. It just becomes a list of obscure composers (as well as others like Purcell, Palestrina and Lutoslawski etc who appear to be highly and widely appreciated)
3. I don't know any composers except for those on the Classic FM Hall of Fame
4. Apathy
5. Being at work
6. Is anyone *really* interested in what I think?


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

A short list of a few not-so-obscure compatriots of mine deserving to be much more performed / better known:

Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina
Luca Marenzio
Andrea and Giovanni Gabrieli
Girolamo Frescobaldi
Carlo Gesualdo
Pier Francesco Cavalli
Alessandro Scarlatti (Domenico's father)
Ferruccio Busoni
Alfredo Casella
Luigi Dallapiccola
Goffredo Petrassi
Bruno Maderna


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Morton Feldman... easily criticized by many who never heard a single piece by him.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

For me, under-appreciated can go hand in hand with being under-recorded to the point when only very few works of a particular composer's output is available at all. Some may warrant such obscurity, but others certainly don't. 

Humphrey Searle (1915-1982) is a glaring example of a composer who deserves wider exposure based on the merits of what little is currently available, and if it wasn't for cpo (a label I have a very high regard for in any case) taking the trouble to record his five symphonies we'd have almost nothing.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Is Elliott Carter under-appreciated? I think that he is well-recorded however he isn't to nearly well enough. Hardly even programmed on orchestral lists.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

albertfallickwang said:


> Morton Feldman... easily criticized by many who never heard a single piece by him.


Only because they confuse him with this guy.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> Only because they confuse him with this guy.


Feldman wasn't _that_ ugly.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Morimur said:


> Feldman wasn't _that_ ugly.


Indeed... I still suspect many who judge the music based on the man all too often.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> Is Elliott Carter under-appreciated? I think that he is well-recorded however he isn't to nearly well enough. Hardly even programmed on orchestral lists.


He's certainly not as popular as Glass and Reich. Those two are basically pop stars in the US.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Morimur said:


> He's certainly not as popular as Glass and Reich. Those two are basically pop stars in the US.


No doubt. Glass and Reich are not under-appreciated in fact. I seriously think they are very very popular here . Carter is like still scary to audiences.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

We all like to champion our own pack of underdog composers. Here's a sampling of mine in alphabetical order, and my reasons:

*Alfvén, Hug*o - if only for his Symphony No. 4 in C minor, "Fran Havsbandet," Op. 39. The longing portrayed in this piece sends chills up my spine every time I listen.

*Asia, Daniel* - fun, contemporary, and accessible for most listeners. I have his symphony nos. 2 and 3. Both should be more well known.

*Bach, Wilhelm Friedemann* - quirkier than the rest of his composer family, his unpredictable chromaticism is always satisfying.

*Berwald, Franz* - competent restrained music in transition between the rigid structures of the classic and the more gushing histrionics of the romantic. This is what most people would point to as typical of the genre "classical." It's simply perfect music.

*de Frumerie, Gunnar* - based solely on his Concerto for trombone & orchestra, Op 81. The opening theme is a stunning beauty.

*Enescu, George* - he's fairly well known, but the piece Suite for orchestra No. 3 in D major "Villageoise," Op. 27 should make him a household name. The themes are stunning.

*Field, John* - inventor of the nocturne and one of the most Beethovenian of LvB's contemporaries. His piano sonatas rank with many of Beethoven's.

*Koechlin, Charles* - the guy looks like he walked out of the late 1800s, but wrote timeless music that could be from out of the late 1900s or contemporary or post-romantic from another planet, a completely unique voice.

*Kraus, Joseph Martin* - "The Swedish Mozart" makes me want to refer to Mozart "The Tedious Kraus." Kraus' music is timeless and less teasing than Mozart's to my ears. (Don't worry, I do like Mozart too.)

*Kuhlau, Friedrich* - as catchy as Mendelssohn, but without so much frenetic energy, which is a good thing because Mendelssohn wears me out sometimes.

*Ramette, Yves* - a composer who seems to have lived and died in relative obscurity, but his music has a profound effect on me. As far as I can tell it may only be available through a dedicated web site.

*Rawsthorne, Alan* - his piano concerto No. 1 is an eye and ear opener. When I first heard about a year ago I thought, "Where has this guy been hiding?" It rivals or is equal to the best piano concertos I've heard including Beethoven's.

*Reinecke, Carl* - the themes from the opening of Symphony No. 2 sound iconic, like something you remember hearing all your life yet never heard before. They're that good.

*Salonen, Esa-Pekka* - I'd rather he start being better known as a composer than as a conductor. "Wing on Wing" is astonishing, beautiful and ominous all at the same time. It always has a profound impact on me when I hear it. His other works aren't too shabby either.

*Turina, Joaquin* - his chamber works have some of the most moving harmonic structures I've ever heard, as compelling as much of Brahms' chamber works. I especially enjoy his unnumbered Trio in F in which each movement incorporates the same theme, sometimes well disguised so you don't realize it until after several listens, much in the way each movement of Beethoven's 5th Symphony uses the same motif. It's glorious!

*Weiner, Leo* - another composer of deeply moving themes, rarely mentioned.

Of course there are hundreds of other composers I might rave about as well. These were the ones that leaped out at me from my catalog, the ones firmly in my memory as being top notch and under-discussed.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Weston said:


> *Koechlin, Charles* - the guy looks like he walked out of the late 1800s, but wrote timeless music that could be from out of the late 1900s or contemporary or post-romantic from another planet, a completely unique voice.


A big second for Charles from me.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Also Helen Grime should be added to this list. We need more recognition for female composers.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

I put in a kind word for Gerald Finzi, who made an impressive contribution in his 55 years.

http://www.geraldfinzi.com/


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Any time I start to worry about underappreciated composers I do two things:

1) I remind myself that most of the composers I would put in that category are already dead, so fame isn't going to do much for them at this point.

2) I pick up one of my massive books on available recorded music and realize that I've already marked for future listening three times as many discs as I could possibly buy or borrow and listen to in the short time before I turn 90.

I have no complaints about underappreciated composers.

Are there composers I especially like who are not as popular as Mozart, or even Bizet or Monteverdi? Sure. But, that doesn't bother me a bit.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Headphone Hermit said:


> 6. Is anyone *really* interested in what I think?


Well, of course!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Anonymous
Traditional
Unknown


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Those of us who listen to contemporary composers probably have our personal list of composers we like who don't seem to get mentioned much or at all. It's a bit hard to know if those composers are truly under-appreciated. Yes, we like them, but should they really get much more attention? Hard to say. Certainly "great" modern composers get less attention than "great" earlier composers because many do not enjoy modern music as much as earlier music. So if you love Lutoslawski, Carter, Feldman, etc., you won't see that level of love on TC that earlier composers may get. 

I've felt for some time that Hindemith is mentioned on TC vastly less than might be expected based on my impression of his standing in "knowledgeable" music circles (yes, I know it's hard to define that). I'm not sure if there is any other major composer born before 1900 who gets less "respect" in my opinion.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

For my purposes, "underappreciated" means underappreciated by the kind of people one might expect to appreciate them. I'm not going to put, e.g., Berio or Josquin because, while they are niche tastes, I think they are appreciated about as much as one would expect by the people who are into that kind of thing.

Francis Poulenc
Charles Wuorinen
Dieterich Buxtehude
Heinrich Schutz
Heinrich Scheidemann
Johann Kuhnau
Marc-Antoine Charpentier
Maurice Durufle
Paul Hindemith
Ernst Krenek
Domenico Scarlatti


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## Revel (Feb 25, 2015)

Lots of opinions here: http://www.talkclassical.com/12497-most-overrated-underrated-composers.html


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

science said:


> Well, of course!


Oh, that's a surprise!

In that case, since you asked - *Geirr Tveitt* - a wacky individual who wrote buckets of stuff, much of which was not published and was destroyed when his house burnt down. His _Hundred Hardanger Tunes_ contains a lot of interesting and enjoyable music and points to the possibility that there could have been much more that has been lost


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

Not yet mentioned appreciation-worthy composers:

Christopher Tye
Hans Leo Hassler
Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

hpowders said:


> William Schuman
> Vincent Persichetti
> *Peter* *Mennin*
> Franz Schmidt


So glad to see this name! A very impressive composer.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

All these guys are great:

Alfano
Alyabiev
Bonis
Busoni
Canteloube
Catoire
Cras
Durosoir
Enescu
Farrenc
Freitas Branco
Griffes
Hovhaness
Jongen
Kapustin
Koechlin
Lekeu
Lyapunov
Pizzetti
Reinecke
Rontgen
Saygun
Tveitt
Villa-Lobos


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

*Ludwig Thuille.* Beautiful post-Brahms chamber music.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

I cannot really answer for the late classical period and beyond. I am not enough knowledgeable of the composers of those times. For the Baroque era, I think Telemann is under appreciated. Yes, his production is a notch below Handel's and Bach's but he is at the very least on par with Vivaldi's. For the classical era (let say until 1800), I will be bold and say Johann Stamitz. He is nowhere near the major composers of that period but I think he is very interesting in his own right. He was one of those who contributed to transform the baroque style into the classical one during what I call the "dark period" (From the time Handel and Bach stopped to compose around 1750 to the emergence of Haydn in the 1760s.).

For example, check that symphony composed between 1753 and 1755.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

France, early twentieth century: 

Cras
Durosoir
Koechlin
Ropartz
Milhaud


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Handel said:


> I cannot really answer for the late classical period and beyond. I am not enough knowledgeable of the composers of those times. For the Baroque era, I think Telemann is under appreciated. Yes, his production is a notch below Handel's and Bach's but he is at the very least on par with Vivaldi's. For the classical era (let say until 1800), I will be bold and say Johann Stamitz. He is nowhere near the major composers of that period but I think he is very interesting in his own right. He was one of those who contributed to transform the baroque style into the classical one during what I call the "dark period" (From the time Handel and Bach stopped to compose around 1750 to the emergence of Haydn in the 1760s.).
> 
> For example, check that symphony composed between 1753 and 1755.


I definitely agree with both of those as well!! Another composer that I feel is not appreciated as much as he should be is Scarlotti. You can also hear that transition of eras in his works as well. From the Classical era Boccherini is another!! He wrote beautiful Cello Concertos!! But yeah, Stamitz's Clarinet Concertos share a lot of similarities with Mozart in terms of phrasing, and his middle movements are exquisite!!!


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

I agree with Scarlatti. He is a little forgotten because he specialized himself into keyboard sonatas. I agree too about Boccherini. He was great in orchestral and chamber works. As for Stamitz clarinet concerto, are you thinking of those by Johann or by his son Karl Philip?


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Handel said:


> I agree with Scarlatti. He is a little forgotten because he specialized himself into keyboard sonatas. I agree too about Boccherini. He was great in orchestral and chamber works. As for Stamitz clarinet concerto, are you thinking of those by Johann or by his son Karl Philip?


Haha yes I was meaning Karl. I didn't realize you said Johann. I need to look more into his works; have any other suggestions?


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Naxos released quite some time ago two CDs of his symphonies from the 1740s-1750s. I know some of his concertos are available on Youtube as well.


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## brg5658 (Mar 2, 2015)

Two I am quite fond of but are not very available on recordings are *Francois Couperin *and *Ignaz Pleyel*.


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Some major composers that I'm shocked haven't come up yet are Hoffmeister, Devienne, Hummel, and Dittersdorf. Most of these composers were late Classical Era composers, and Hoffmeister and Hummel show a transition into the Romantic Era. Devienne and Hoffmeister wrote some of the best Flute Concertos, Dittersdorf wrote all sorts of wonderful stuff, I believe he was second only to Haydn in popularity during his life, and Hummel wrote several great concertos including ones for Piano, Trumpet, and Bassoon. Hummel shows a lot of similarities to beethoven. If haven't heard of these composers I strongly recommend them. http://


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Good stuff Bevo. Those are worthy composers, even if I don't know that much about Devienne and especially Hoffmeister. I enjoyed Dittersdorf symphonies. I think the one he composed on Ovid's _Metamorphoses_ show some pre-romantic stylistic traits. As for Hummel, he was roughly a generation younger. He is a different bird. I enjoy his concertant production, including the one you linked. I discovered some real good late piano works played by Christopher Hinterhuber (on Naxos), including a piano piece (_Oberons Zauberhorn_) Hummel composed after the death of his friend C.M. von Weber.

https://app.box.com/s/xdectfmgtej7py6smhwzsbagu9a7vune


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks for all of the recommendations! Now my eagerness to listen to each one of these guys is going to drive me insane hunting down more albums.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

If there are any words that are thrown around caution to the wind the most in the Classical music community, it's "underrated/underappreciated" and "Masterpiece".


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

violadude said:


> If there are any two words that are thrown around caution to the wind the most in the Classical music community, it's "underrated/underappreciated" and "Masterpiece".


Yeah! And where is the evidence to back up these assumptions?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Yeah! And where is the evidence to back up these assumptions?


Are you being sarcastic?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

violadude said:


> Are you being sarcastic?


I'm in agreement with you, and following up with the obvious question. Where do listeners get their evidence to support the assumption that certain composers are under-appreciated? And underrated? I didn't know there was a rating system for composers.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

This conversation would be more useful with an adequate definition. For instance, "Underappreciated: Adjective describing any composer that others like less than I do."


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starthrower said:


> I'm in agreement with you, and following up with the obvious question. Where do listeners get their evidence to support the assumption that certain composers are under-appreciated? And underrated? I didn't know there was a rating system for composers.


I feel like a lot of people confuse "underrated" with "I like this composer"

For example, I like the music of Takashi Yoshimatsu. Do I think he's underrated? No, not really. He's had about as much acclaim as I would expect from what his music is like.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The unacknowledged part of the question is "among what group of listeners or potential listeners?" I think _all_ composers of good music are under-appreciated, simply because they will never be appreciated by all the potential listeners who could appreciate them. Beethoven is under-appreciated, isn't he?


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## Baregrass (Feb 16, 2015)

I recently discovered Bartolomeo Campagnoli played by Orchestra Di Padova E Del Veneto. Nice!


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