# which Schubert sonata is this?



## timbo (Aug 2, 2011)

I was going through an old reference volume, 'the Columbia book of musical masterworks', and amongst the works of Schubert that it suggested listening to was Sonata No. 9 in A. Only problem is that, as far as I can find out, there is no such sonata! There are two piano sonatas in A, numbers 13 and 20, while number 9 is in B. Is it possible, since the book in question was published in the 40's, that a reworking of the numbering has taken place since then, or am I missing something? I thought that it might be some other type of sonata, for example for violin, but haven't been able to find anything on that line either.

Confused!


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

Did the 'book' give a *D* reference. Like the Sonata in B has the 'opus' *D575* after it.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

timbo said:


> I was going through an old reference volume, 'the Columbia book of musical masterworks', and amongst the works of Schubert that it suggested listening to was Sonata No. 9 in A. Only problem is that, as far as I can find out, there is no such sonata! There are two piano sonatas in A, numbers 13 and 20, while number 9 is in B. Is it possible, since the book in question was published in the 40's, that a reworking of the numbering has taken place since then, or am I missing something? I thought that it might be some other type of sonata, for example for violin, but haven't been able to find anything on that line either.
> 
> Confused!


I think it's a mistake in the book. The sonata described is piano sonata no 13, D 664, in A major (op. 120). This work was composed in either 1819 or 1825, as scholars are undecided.

Piano sonata no 9, as referred to in the book, is D 575 and is in the key of B. That work was composed in 1817.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

If you can't find a definitive answer, I'd assume it was referencing what we would now call Piano Sonata No. 13 in A, D. 664.

Numberings can sometimes be subject to change - it's happened with the works of various composers - but you ought to be able to rely on the key they give you. Seeing as there are only two sonatas in A, and the D. 959 is a very late, very famous work, it's more likely that an obscure reference to 'No. 9' will mean the earlier sonata.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

Polednice said:


> If you can't find a definitive answer, I'd assume it was referencing what we would now call Piano Sonata No. 13 in A, D. 664.


I have already stated this, haven't I?

A little more investigation makes this quite conclusive. The reference in the Columbia book states:_"SONATA NO. 9 IN A MAJOR, OP. 120 Allegro moderate - Andante Allegro

SCHUBERT'S piano music has suffered undeserved neglect chiefly be cause this music offers little opportunity for external display on the part of the pianist ..."
_​The clue is in the reference Op 120, which is piano sonata No 13 (D 664).



> Numberings can sometimes be subject to change - it's happened with the works of various composers - but you ought to be able to rely on the key they give you. Seeing as there are only two sonatas in A, and the D. 959 is a very late, very famous work, it's more likely that an obscure reference to 'No. 9' will mean the earlier sonata.


Piano sonatas No 4 (D 537), No 13 (D 784), No 16 (D 845), and No 20 (D 959) are in the key of A.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Artemis said:


> I have already stated this, haven't I?


I didn't think you were particularly clear.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Piano sonatas No 4 (D 537), No 13 (D 784), No 16 (D 845), and No 20 (D 959) are in the key of A.


Two of those are in A _minor_, the minor ordinarily being specified; major assumed if unspecified.


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## timbo (Aug 2, 2011)

*Hmmmmm!*

I guess the assumption that it's No. 13 is correct. I went back to the book after what Artemis stated about the year of composition, and noted the following - _There has been some little dispute as to when the Sonata No. 9 was composed. In Breitkopf & Hartel the date given is 1825, but three authorities, Scheibler, Koltzsch and Glock feel that the sonata has little in common with the other sonatas of the period. and therefore have assigned it to the year 1819. In the works of most composers the opus numbers bear a direct relation to the dates of their compositions. but with Schubert this is not the case._

Also note, for those familiar with the sonata in question, is the following - _An unusual feature of the allegro moderato is the single bar of transitional passage work that separates the two themes..._ Makes sense to the resident musicologists?

The fact that No. 13 and the mysterious no. 9 (according to the book) both share identical movement signatures I guess nails it.

Interesting point I guess is that some time between the 40's and the present some Schubert scholar saw to it that the numbering system for the composer's works was revised. That or I'm dealing with a misprint!

While we're on the subject of misinformation, can anyone explain why Paganini's sonatas for guitar, as with all his work, are officially numbered via Opus and MS listings when it comes to reference materials and albums, yet all over Youtube they're frequently listed by a basic designation such as 'Sonata no.9' and so on. If it was just a few people doing it I'd assume that they're simply making an error, being lazy, etc, but it happens with such frequency that one can only assume that there must be some sort of reference material that does categorise the works in such a fashion. It's a little confusing, as I'm trying to research some of the sonatas via Youtube (I'm a big classical guitar fan, as I studied it for some years) but can't correlate the MS/Op. numbers with the straight numbering I'm finding, particularly as some of the sonatas are in the same key.

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Tim


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## timbo (Aug 2, 2011)

PS to Artemis. You posted while I was still writing my previous note, so we overlapped somewhat! You noted the same thing I discovered upon returning to the book, that 13 and the mysterious 9 both share the same movement signatures. Funny that you should own the same dated tome that I possess.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

timbo said:


> PS to Artemis. You posted while I was still writing my previous note, so we overlapped somewhat! You noted the same thing I discovered upon returning to the book, that 13 and the mysterious 9 both share the same movement signatures. Funny that you should own the same dated tome that I possess.


I'm quite keen on Schubert!

Can I take it that your curiosity is now satisfied, and that the work in question is piano sonata No 13?

If you are interested in a recommendation, I like the version by Leon Fleisher on this CD:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

The recent recording by Eldar Nebolsin is also very nice.


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## timbo (Aug 2, 2011)

I love Schubert as well, though I have to admit his vast body of Leider don't do much for me, with a few exceptions of course. His chamber music, on the other hand, is extraordinary - I remember the first time I heard 'Trout', on a Laker flight from London to New York many years ago, just took my breath away. It still delights, as do many of his other chamber pieces.

Thanks for the recommendations, and also for the help. I'm sure you could appreciate why I was somewhat confused!


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