# Your Old Testament and New Testament of Music



## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier and Beethoven's Piano Sonatas are referred to often as the Old and New Testaments of music- the defining works of the piano genre. *What to you are the "Old Testament" and "New Testament" of music?* Not necessarily your favorite works, but works or collections of pieces that stand as the giants and pinnacles of musical development- a sum of ideas of everything that came before it and/or everything that came after it.

For me, the Old Testament of music would also be Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, just because of it's absolute depth of every emotion, every technique, every musical "flavor." It is the pinnacle of the Baroque and Classical Periods. As for a New Testament, I would go with either Beethoven's ninth symphony or Wagner's Ring Cycle, because both changed music and art forever.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

It's the colored illustrations in the back that most hold my attention.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Didn't we have this exact thread a few weeks ago? Or am I going crazy?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Why just two testaments? You yourself suggest three by positing Bach, Beethoven and Wagner. How about a fourth for the 20th century? There are peaks of achievement in all eras.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Why just two testaments? You yourself suggest three by positing Bach, Beethoven and Wagner. How about a fourth for the 20th century? There are peaks of achievement in all eras.


Three for keyboard? Bach's WTC, Beethoven's sonatas, and DSCH's Op. 87?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Art Rock said:


> Didn't we have this exact thread a few weeks ago? Or am I going crazy?


Well, close:
What would be considered the old and new testament for violin?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Monteverdi's Madrigals would have to be the New Testament; perhaps the Cantigas de Santa Maria would be the Old Testament. Vivaldi, Handel, and Bach can be the Cappadocian Fathers; Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven can be Maximos the Confessor, Simeon the New Theologian, and Gregory Palamas. Everyone from Schubert to Ravel can be the Philokalia. 

Valuing the metaphor over strict chronology, Wagner will have to be Augustine; Schoenberg, Aquinas; Cage, Luther; Babbitt, Calvin; the jazz guys must be Copernicus, Vesalius, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Darwin, Maxwell, Einstein, Watson and Crick. 

Pop music must be New Religious Movements: Robert Johnson can be Joseph Smith; Chuck Berry can be Mary Baker Eddy; the Beatles can be L. Ron Hubbard; Afrika Bambaataa can be Raël.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

MarkW said:


> It's the colored illustrations in the back that most hold my attention.


That's Satie, of course.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Didn't we have this exact thread a few weeks ago? Or am I going crazy?


Wow, I never even saw that. My apologies.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Why just two testaments? You yourself suggest three by positing Bach, Beethoven and Wagner. How about a fourth for the 20th century? There are peaks of achievement in all eras.


Well... it's an obvious Bible allusion... even though there's no Christianity actually involved the names come from the Bible, which only has Two Testaments. If you want to make it four that's fine, but there's generally considered to be two in Christianity.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

All right, so far this thread has been a failure. I guess there's just too many "greatest pieces" "favorite pieces" threads and people just get sick of them.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Three for keyboard? Bach's WTC, Beethoven's sonatas, and DSCH's Op. 87?


I don't buy the premise, but if I did I'd say Prokofiev's sonatas would be a better choice than the Shostakovich.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Prokofiev's War Sonatas are the Matthew, Mark and Luke of the NT. Beethoven's Appassionata the Exodus. Bach's WTC the Genesis. Schoenberg's pieces the Revelation. Cage's Music of Changes the Q gospel (widely considered heretical).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Tchaikov6 said:


> All right, so far this thread has been a failure. I guess there's just too many "greatest pieces" "favorite pieces" threads and people just get sick of them.


It's ok. I really thought my posts were funny, yet the first contained subtle, serious points about the importance of Renaissance music and Byzantine theology. People don't always get us.

I like to think we're the Islay scotches of Talk Classical.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

science said:


> Monteverdi's Madrigals would have to be the New Testament; perhaps the Cantigas de Santa Maria would be the Old Testament. Vivaldi, Handel, and Bach can be the Cappadocian Fathers; Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven can be Maximos the Confessor, Simeon the New Theologian, and Gregory Palamas. Everyone from Schubert to Ravel can be the Philokalia.
> 
> Valuing the metaphor over strict chronology, Wagner will have to be Augustine; Schoenberg, Aquinas; Cage, Luther; Babbitt, Calvin; the jazz guys must be Copernicus, Vesalius, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Darwin, Maxwell, Einstein, Watson and Crick.
> 
> Pop music must be New Religious Movements: Robert Johnson can be Joseph Smith; Chuck Berry can be Mary Baker Eddy; the Beatles can be L. Ron Hubbard; Afrika Bambaataa can be Raël.


Remind us now: how many angels...?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Remind us now: how many angels...?


All real music is gelic. Angelic music is just noise.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

science said:


> All real music is gelic. Angelic music is just noise.


There's always room for gelo.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Old Testament: Bach's WTC Book II, Art of Fugue
New Testament: Beethoven's Late Quartets


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I accept the premise that the WTC is the "Old Testament" and Beethoven's Piano Sonatas are the "New Testament"

After that, I'd suggest

Hindemith - LudasTonalis
Shostakovich - 24 Preludes and Fugues,, Op. 87
Cage - Sonatas & Interludes for Prepared Piano


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

God is dead in the 20th century.

The music landscape of the 20th century is so vast, only seeds were sown.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Afraid I cannot answer this because there is nothing in music to compare with the Old and the New Testaments when the latter are understood.


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

science said:


> I like to think we're the Islay scotches of Talk Classical.


Now that's the first thing in this thread I understand.


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