# Recommended Mravinsky Shostakokovich symphony 'cycle'



## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

*Recommended Mravinsky Shostakovich symphony 'cycle'*

The holy grail of Shostakovich symphony cycles is Kondrashin on Melodiya which is hampered by Soviet era 60s sound. Then there's Rozhdestvensky, again on Melodiya from the 70's, and recently they recorded another modern cycle by Sladkovsky.
The question i want answered is that everytime i read about true Russian Soviet performances the name that keeps creeping up is that of Mravinsky. He ofcourse never recorded a complete cycle and was averse to studio recordings, so therefore there are a ton of concert recordings of the handful of Shostakovich symphonies he did like and play. These recordings because they were played behind the Iron Curtain have been available in the West on various labels intermittently , here, there, everywhere, and nowhere.
Because he has so many concert recordings on so many labels with same symphonies, my question is what do you recommend as a definitive recording of a particular symphony he played and on what label was it available and when was it recorded (not including any mono thank you very much). I know that even his discography is near impossible to compile. It could be one you have, heard, like, but ultimately is it considered definitive? Any help would be appreciated.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

He was a great conductor but much of his Shostakovich recording was marred by poor sound - at least that was how things were at the time I was doing a similar search to yours - and, although most is listenable, there are better records of the works. Ancerl recorded some of the symphonies and again the sound is not modern but it is better. And, to move away from Russia for a moment, some of the best historical Shostakovich can be found in live recordings by Stokowski. Mravinsky did 8 on one of those BBC Legends records among other recordings (he recorded many symphonies several times). And his 10, below, has quite good sound (and is great).

View attachment 153636


I'm sure others will have found other good ones.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

IMO Mravinsky's performances of Shostakovich didn't change too much over the years, therefore in general, I would recommend picking up those later recordings as they usually (although not always) have the best sound.

Mravinsky's discography is also a minefield full of inaccurate recording dates/venues, fake applause, even wrong tape playback speed during mastering; while some labels have cleaned up the coughs etc. making it more difficult to uniquely identify a recording, therefore it will involve a lot of detective work if you want to collect all of them, but that does not sound like what the OP is after.

The sound quality of the same recording may also differ from a little to a lot among labels. Some may have been mastered from the original tape, some others from a tape recorded of a broadcast which is a very different thing, so beware! I don't have all the releases of all the surviving recordings, but I'll try to state the ones that I have/know that have the best sound below.

No. 5
No. of surviving recordings: 16+
Recommended for best sound: *1973.05.03 live recording in Leningrad (Altus).* This has been released by only Altus, but it is not the most recent recording. Also note that there are at least 4 surviving recordings from 1973 (Altus has released two of them). On the other hand, the most recent recording is the 1984.04.04 live recording on Erato etc., which IMO sounds a bit muddier but arguably less boosted so you might like that.

No. 6
No. of surviving recordings: 3
Recommended for best sound: *1965.02.21 live recording in Moscow (Scribendum).* This 1965 recording has also been released by Melodiya, BMG, etc. This is not the most recent recording. There is a more recent 1972.01.27 live recording (also on Scribendum, Melodiya etc.), which I think sounds thinner than the 1965.

No. 7
No. of surviving recordings: 1
Recommended for best sound: *1953.02.26 studio recording in Leningrad (Omega or Vanguard).* There is only one recording and it is in mono! If I remember correctly the Omega sounds more natural while the Vangurad sounds more boosted (don't have the Vanguard); while both sound more full-bodied than the Melodiya.

No. 8
No. of surviving recordings: 7+
Recommended for best sound: *1982.03.28 live recording in Leningrad (Altus, Regis or Alto).* This is available on many other labels. All three stated above have good sound. The only one to definitely avoid is the Philips. It was mastered with a wrong tape playback speed, hence it's shorter and the pitch is wrong. On the other hand, an earlier, 1960.09.23 live recording in London (BBC Legends) has slightly inferior sound, but it is much quicker and grittier in the middle movement than other recordings, so it is also worth investigating.

No. 10
No. of surviving recordings: 4
Recommended for best sound: *1976.03.03 live recording in Leningrad (Erato).* This is not the most recent recording. Melodiya and other labels have released a 1976.03.31 live recording that sounds thinner and more frequency-limited.

No. 11
No. of surviving recordings: 2
Recommended for best sound: *1957.11.03 live recording in Leningrad (Russian Disc or Profil).* This is in mono! This is also not the most recent recording. Melodiya and others have released a 1959.02.02 studio recording, also in mono, that sounds much worse.

No. 12
No. of surviving recordings: 4+
Recommended for best sound: *1984.04.28-30 live recording in Leningrad (Erato).* There are at least two surviving recordings from the three days between 1984.04.28 and 1984.04.30. Erato claimed its recording was made on 1984.04.30. To cut a long story short, it could probably be a blend of multiple concerts from those three days. Therefore other labels that also claimed 1984.04.28 or 29 or 30 may sound a bit different in the performance.

No. 15
No. of surviving recordings: 3
Recommended for best sound: *1965.05.26 live recording in Leningrad (Melodiya).* I'm afraid this 1965 recording is the only one I have, so I don't know what the other two sound like (from 1972 and 1976). However, this 1965 recording sounds more like 1980s quality than 1960s. Suspect Melodiya was being casual with the date.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Thank you so much. I have for the moment the 3 symphonies by Erato (S5,10 & 12). They are in fantastic sound considering Mravinsky recorded history being from I believe 1976-84. I also have S8 on Regis which i understand to be a definitive recording by Mravinsky of that particular symphony.









And would i be correct in assuming that the above compilation on Melodiya is his one size fits all Melodiya wise?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Excellent post from Kiki, and one that will be more than useful for future reference purposes. Although I could guess that there was a degree of technical chicanery with one or two of Mravinsky's Shostakovich recordings I had no idea that so much separating the wheat from the chaff was required when collecting them.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Subutai said:


> Thank you so much. I have for the moment the 3 symphonies by Erato (S5,10 & 12). They are in fantastic sound considering Mravinsky recorded history being from I believe 1976-84. I also have S8 on Regis which i understand to be a definitive recording by Mravinsky of that particular symphony.
> 
> View attachment 153649
> 
> ...


I think this Melodiya set is a great compilation for the convenience of collectors; just beware it does not include all Shostakovich/Mravinsky symphony recordings that Melodiya has ever released.

It contains the following recordings. There may be more mono recordings than you'd have liked; but I think the older ones are quite listenable (the 1953 No.7 is borderline IMO), while the newer ones are rather decent in fact.

No. 5: 1954.04.24 studio, mono. 
No. 6: 1972.01.27 live, stereo.
No. 7: 1953.02.26 studio, mono.
No. 8: 1961.02.25 live, stereo (not quite apparent as a stereo rec.).
No. 10: 1976.03.31 live, stereo (sounds like mono).
No. 11: 1959.02.02 studio, mono.
No. 12: 1961.10.01 studio, stereo. 
No. 15: 1965.05.26 live, stereo.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> Excellent post from Kiki, and one that will be more than useful for future reference purposes. Although I could guess that there was a degree of technical chicanery with one or two of Mravinsky's Shostakovich recordings I had no idea that so much separating the wheat from the chaff was required when collecting them.


It really is a minefield of deceits and errors... but the detective work is kind of fun.

I keep a spreadsheet to track all Mravinsky recordings/releases that I could identify. I have extracted the Shostakovich symphonies into the following spreadsheet on OneDrive. If it would be of any use to anybody, please feel free to do whatever you want with it.
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AixPph3hiAvd1ATh6iLM2GnOoe2k?e=yyTGYy

Now the disclaimer: I created this content by consolidating info from two discographies on the web (links stated in the spreadsheet), correcting some of their errors through listening tests, and filling in the missing ones that I know. I cannot guarantee its correctness, therefore use it at your own risk. 

If you should find any error or any missing recording, the OCD collector in me will be very grateful if you would let me know.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> ... Ancerl recorded some of the symphonies and again the sound is not modern but it is better.


I like the Ancerl 10th on DG very much. Love the grit. Haven't heard his 1st, 5th, and 7th (think they are on Supraphon's Ancerl Gold series?). Are these all that he has left us?


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Erato released a box set containing Mravinsky's Shostakovich 5,10,12 with Leningrad PO, definitely top-notch performance. The recorded sound is OK (probably best among Mravinsky's Shostakovich), though it is worse than most recordings from big labels in the same period. I also own the Kondrashin's cycle on Melodiya, great interpretation (straight, concise, powerful) but disastrous sound quality.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Kiki said:


> I like the Ancerl 10th on DG very much. Love the grit. Haven't heard his 1st, 5th, and 7th (think they are on Supraphon's Ancerl Gold series?). Are these all that he has left us?


Yes, I think that's it.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Kiki said:


> I think this Melodiya set is a great compilation for the convenience of collectors; just beware it does not include all Shostakovich/Mravinsky symphony recordings that Melodiya has ever released.
> 
> It contains the following recordings. There may be more mono recordings than you'd have liked; but I think the older ones are quite listenable (the 1953 No.7 is borderline IMO), while the newer ones are rather decent in fact.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and yes it's a shame half are in mono. In my 'one size fits all' comment, would you say (if you know) if these particular performances are the 'best' that Melodiya hold, even though there may others in their vaults?


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Kiki said:


> I like the Ancerl 10th on DG very much. Love the grit. Haven't heard his 1st, 5th, and 7th (think they are on Supraphon's Ancerl Gold series?). Are these all that he has left us?


There are actually some other recordings out there from the great Karel Ancerl, not easy to find though. There's also a Ninth from 1966 on here: sell a kidney, and it's yours! The Leningrad is a 1967 live version, not the mono one on Supraphon, and apparently the Fifth was recorded a week earlier than the Supraphon one, so is not the same. There's also a 1st Cello Concerto with Milos Sadlo (a very fine version it is too!)









BTW, Kiki, I suspect your 1965 date for the Mravinsky 15th is not correct, not for a work composed in 1971 and first performed in January 1972!


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Great post Kiki. I should bookmark this.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Enthusiast said:


> Yes, I think that's it.[/QUOTE
> 
> Again, it appears that the only Shostakovich symphonies by Ancerl, 1 & 5 are stereo. Symphonies 7 & 10 are in mono.
> From what I can tell there's only 3 albums by Ancerl (1 on DG and 2 on Supraphon).


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Subutai said:


> Thanks, and yes it's a shame half are in mono. In my 'one size fits all' comment, would you say (if you know) if these particular performances are the 'best' that Melodiya hold, even though there may others in their vaults?


In short, if you like Mravinsky's ways of playing Shostakovich, which I assume you do, then I'm reasonably sure that you will find all of those included in this set good. I hesitate to talk about whether they are the "best" performances from Melodiya's vault. They are all subtly different, but not all that different from one another. If one should scrutinize every performance, one may favour one over another, but honestly the others are not bad at all. They're all good.

I've listed the performances that has ever been released by Melodiya, according to the discographies that I quoted in the spreadsheet earlier on. Those included in the Melodiya set MEL CD 10 00771 to 00775 are marked with (S).

Can't pretend I remember all these performances, so I went to sample them to refresh my memory. I have some of them released by other labels instead of Melodiya, but this time we are talking about performance instead of sound mastering quality so I think it's valid to do this.

I don't think there is a big difference between these performances. They were all done by Mravinsky and the Leningrad PO after all, and they had been remarkably consistent through the years (even those acidic brass!) Choice of tempo may differ, some sounding slightly grittier, others more intense, but the difference is not night-and-day, and they are all good performances. 

No. 5
1938.03.27 Studio Mono
<=1954.07.09 (could be the same as 1954.04.24) Studio Mono - No idea
*1954.04.24 Studio Mono (S)*
1978.06.12,13 Live Stereo
> The 1938 is the slowest and has poor sound. The 1954 and 1978 are similar, the 1978 being slightly faster and grittier, 1954 slightly slower and more intense. I like things fast and gritty. You might have a different preference. But beware the difference is not that big here.

No. 6
1946.11.04 Studio Mono
1965.02.21 Live Stereo
*1972.01.27 Live Stereo (S)*
> There are slightly variation in tempo but really there is no big difference in these performances.

No. 7
*1953.02.26 Studio Mono (S)*
> The only performance available. Let me emphasize again though, that the Vanguard and the Omega releases have better sound than the Melodiya.

No. 8
1947.06.02 Studio Mono
Unknown Live Unknown - No idea. Was released by Old Melodiya and Bruno(USA).
*1961.02.25 Live Stereo (S)*
> The 1961 is more pushy than the 1947. The difference is obvious but not night-and-day.

No. 10
1954.04.24 Studio Mono
*1976.03.31 Live Mono (S)*
> No big difference in these performances.

No. 11: 
*1959.02.02 Studio Mono (S)*
> The only one released by Melodiya. The other 1957 performance was not released by Melodiya. That sounds slightly more terrifying than this 1959.

No. 12: 
*1961.10.01 Studio Stereo (S)*
> The only one released by Melodiya. Other performances, released by other labels, don't differ too much in this rather monotonal symphony.

No. 15: 
*1965.05.26 Live Stereo (S)* - Dubious date as CnC Bartok pointed out
1972.05.05 or 06 Live Unknwon - No idea.
1976.05.26 Live Unknown - No idea.
> The only one I've heard is this incorrectly dated 1965. Certainly a good 15th.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

CnC Bartok said:


> There are actually some other recordings out there from the great Karel Ancerl, not easy to find though. There's also a Ninth from 1966 on here: sell a kidney, and it's yours! The Leningrad is a 1967 live version, not the mono one on Supraphon, and apparently the Fifth was recorded a week earlier than the Supraphon one, so is not the same. There's also a 1st Cello Concerto with Milos Sadlo (a very fine version it is too!)
> 
> View attachment 153672
> 
> ...


To be fair Kiki does qualify Melodiya's claim by saying it sounds like 1980s quality. Is it possible there are only two recordings rather than three?


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

CnC Bartok said:


> There are actually some other recordings out there from the great Karel Ancerl, not easy to find though. There's also a Ninth from 1966 on here: sell a kidney, and it's yours! The Leningrad is a 1967 live version, not the mono one on Supraphon, and apparently the Fifth was recorded a week earlier than the Supraphon one, so is not the same. There's also a 1st Cello Concerto with Milos Sadlo (a very fine version it is too!)
> 
> View attachment 153672
> 
> ...


A kidney will do? This sounds like familiar territory... think Martinů! :lol:

Now I feel like I've opened a can of worms.

Yep, you're absolutely right. The 1965 date for the Mravinsky 15th (printed at the back of the Melodiya CD) is obviously wrong. Unfortunately I have no other Mravinsky 15th to compare with. All I can say is, this incorrectly dated Melodiya 15th could be the same recording as the 1972, or the 1976, or neither!


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> To be fair Kiki does qualify Melodiya's claim by saying it sounds like 1980s quality. Is it possible there are only two recordings rather than three?


Quite possible, given that it sounds "new", like from the 80s (OK, the 70s as well, as the other two known recordings were dated 1972 and 1976, both in Melodiya's collection).

It's probably less likely that it's a previously unknown recording, as the more recent it is, the less likely it is unknown. But this is all guessing.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

OK, mystery solved!!! -

The back cover of the Melodiya CD stated "26.05.1965 (Symphony No. 15) - live at the Grand Hall of the Leningrad Philharmonic Society."

But the booklet stated "at the Grand Hall of the Leningrad Philharmonic Society, 26.05.1976 (Symphony No. 15) - live".

Should have checked the booklet as well as the back cover.

This alleged 1965 is most probably the 1976, with the 1976 having been released by a whole bunch of labels.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Many thanks to all, especially Kiki. I have now created my 'frankencycle' of Mravinsky Shostakovich symphonies, it's the same as the Melodiya (ultimately I wanted recordings released by Melodiya) 6CD set with replacements for the mono recordings, except 7 & 11 which were only ever released in mono.


Symphony 5 (Praga)
This Symphony is actually the Melodiya 1978 recording in stereo, fraudently released as a 1967 Prague radio broadcast by Praga (with fake coughs added).

Symphony 8 (BBC Legends)
Although the Melodiya boxset says theirs is stereo, it is clearly mono. Supplemented with BBC Legends as it was recorded around the same time.

Symphony 10 (Erato)
Again, the Melodiya boxset claims theres to be a stereo recording, yet is clearly mono (even though it was supposedly recorded in 1976). Supplemented with the Erato as again, it was recorded around the same time.

The remaining Melodiya boxset recordings of 6, 12 & 15 all have acceptable stereo sound.


So thanks again to everyone who chimed in. And yes, as with Furtwangler and Beethoven before him, there is something about Mravinsky and Shostakovich that just sounds 'right'. Shame he never recorded a complete cycle. Would have given Kondrashin a run for his money.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

^^

Good call! Glad you've put together what you wanted. 

Praga's live Vienna 1978 #5 has decent sound. I think they firmly believe it was recorded in 1965, as I've seen a couple of Praga releases both stating 1965. :lol: 

On the other hand, there are several recordings of #5 from 1973 and 1984 that imo sound better, but I don't believe they are Melodiya recordings.

The live 1960 BBC #8 is good choice. I really like its fanatic middle movement. Performance-wise, I prefer this BBC recording over his other #8s.

The live 1982 #8 on Alto, Altus, Regis etc. has slightly better sound, but I believe it is not a Melodiya recording.

The live 1976 Melodiya #10 has really disappointing sound. Supplementing it with the Erato, recorded less than a month earlier, is a no brainer!

It would be really intriguing if Mravinsky had left us a complete Shostakovich cycle (similarly he had left us only Beethoven #1-7, Tchaikovsky #4-6). I'd love to hear especially his #9. Would it be fanatic like Kondrashin or sarcastic like Petrenko? I wouldn't imagine it would be fun and carefree like Bernstein though.


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