# Here's some of my music



## danae

These are two miniature pieces for piano, performed by me at a conservatory student concert. 
They are in fact exercises of style: the first refers to Prokofiev / Poulenc and the second to Messiaen. 
Also, there is a great distance between them. The first piece was my *very first* piece, written when I was 16. The second is actually more of an improvisation on Messiean's style and harmonic language, written 4 years ago.


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## Jaime77

Oh cool... I like this first piece. I am listening now. My early pieces were also somewhat neoclassical but this is an evocative little piece. Very good for 16. I would listen to this above some of Prokofiev's earliest or some of the Bartok microcosmos. 

The second has lovely harmonies - especially the lowest register chordal sequence. A little hint of the old Quartet for the End of Time there too. This does not sound like an imitation really, in the sense of pastiche. It stands on its own as does the first. There seems to be more intention to it than imitation, if you see what I mean. 

Thanks for sharing


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## danae

Thanks jaibyrne. Actually it was intended as an imitation. But maybe it sounds like it may "stand on its own" because I'm really into Messiaen and I think he encorporates most of my musical thoughts, that's why every Messiaen work I hear, immediately I relate to it like it's my own or something...


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## Jaime77

I get that from it. I'd like to hear one of your longer pieces


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## danae

OK, back in a jiff!


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## danae

This is something I wrote in my first year in university. It was performed in yet another student concert. It's not a good performance, the flutist makes a number of mistakes, but at least you can make something out of it.


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## SenorTearduct

Did you study music before you began writing?


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## chillowack

This is interesting music. I don't really care too much for atonal and modern music in general, but there is clearly some skill being exhibited here, whether or not I happen to fully understand/appreciate it. I did enjoy parts of the flute piece.

Due to the (apparently) unstructured nature of this music, it's a bit more difficult for me to follow than, say, a perfectly-metered Mozart piece. But maybe that's all part of the style.


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## danae

Chillowack, none of the pieces I uploaded are atonal music. Although I tried, I never managed to move away from tonality. 

Tearduct, I started studying music theory some years after I began writing. But I was already taking piano lessons.


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## Mirror Image

danae said:


> Chillowack, none of the pieces I uploaded are atonal music. Although I tried, I never managed to move away from tonality.


That's a wise choice. Atonality = nonsense.


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## danae

Mirror Image said:


> That's a wise choice. Atonality = nonsense.


Yeah, yeah whatever...


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## danae

MI, if you have any comments about the pieces I'll be glad to read them, but I guess all you care about is to provoke.


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## colin

that was inventive and good to hear, liked the change in timings. did you write the flute melody as well thanks.


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## danae

colin said:


> did you write the flute melody as well thanks.


What do you mean?


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## Scott Good

danae said:


> This is something I wrote in my first year in university. It was performed in yet another student concert. It's not a good performance, the flutist makes a number of mistakes, but at least you can make something out of it.


Nice little piece!

I like how it starts - as a question. And the flute entry is the answer, setting up the dialogue right from the start - very effective.

Danae, you must start to invest in getting good quality recordings! Seek out the best players and write for them. If you are a student, get another student performer to take on your music for their own recital - then they will spend more time on it. Try to organize a recording session, where the instruments can be properly miked, and several takes can be chosen from.


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## danae

Thanks for your comments Scott. 

I will try to have my music performed, but that's the least of my worries right now. My priority is ot get back on track with composition, which I have actually abandoned for 3 years...


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## Mirror Image

Both of these pieces, to put it bluntly, are terrible....sorry, but I listened and I have to say I'm disappointed in what you're doing with music. No melody, no harmony, no rhythm, and no structure. You're just composing noise. It's just as bad as your other piece you submitted. Where's the heart and soul? Where's the blood and glory? Where's the substance?

I'm sorry, but you should really rethink your music, because I don't hear anything remotely worth listening to here.


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## Aramis

I think you should practice improvising with some simple jazz/swing backing rhythm to learn how to keep things together. It's the best way to improve yourself. Unless you want to sound like avant-garde guy, but I don't think it would amount anywhere.


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## Mirror Image

Aramis said:


> I think you should practice improvising with some simple jazz/swing backing rhythm to learn how to keep things together. It's the best way to improve yourself. Unless you want to sound like avant-garde guy, but I don't think it would amount anywhere.


I think that's another problem with the pieces danae, besides totally lacking in everything that makes music great, she isn't trying hard enough to create her own style, which maybe a reason why she's playing this gibberish. She needs to first establish a good, solid musical idea and then take it from there. The "music" she provided for us to critque is nonsense. I know she can do better.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> ... No melody, no harmony, no rhythm, and no structure...


This is what you seem to say about most contemporary music. I don't have access to sound on this computer, so I can't judge for myself, but I remember MI saying the same thing about Frank Martin's music on that thread & he was completely wrong about that. So I'd take what he has to say with a grain of salt, so to speak...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> This is what you seem to say about most contemporary music. I don't have access to sound on this computer, so I can't judge for myself, but I remember MI saying the same thing about Frank Martin's music on that thread & he was completely wrong about that. So I'd take what he has to say with a grain of salt, so to speak...


Well I listened to these pieces and I gave my opinion of them like danae wanted me to. I'm just being honest. I think she can do much better.

I would take what Andre says with a grain of salt as well. I'm a musician, he isn't.


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## SenorTearduct

I'm sorry I must interject. MI I understand you feel you are only giving your true opinion of her music and her style, but I think there is a less judgmental manner you can present it. Now I know I'm only 15 and haven't been living very long; but these people including me, respect your opinion. Unless you feel like losing those relationships full of respect, I suggest the following.

1. Don't ever say a certain kind of music is good or bad, or weather or not it is music; avoid the subject if at all possible. This is the most insulting a comment a composer can hear, and will leave their hope's in ruin.

2. If you do not like her style and you think she can do "better", don't say she could have done better. Instead challenger her to compose a work of a different style, give her suggestions on that style if she chooses to compose the piece you challenged her to.

Constructive Criticism, no one wants to hear the bleak end and closed hole of a situation.


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## Mirror Image

SenorTearduct said:


> I'm sorry I must interject. MI I understand you feel you are only giving your true opinion of her music and her style, but I think there is a less judgmental manner you can present it. Now I know I'm only 15 and haven't been living very long; but these people including me, respect your opinion. Unless you feel like losing those relationships full of respect, I suggest the following.
> 
> 1. Don't ever say a certain kind of music is good or bad, or weather or not it is music; avoid the subject if at all possible. This is the most insulting a comment a composer can hear, and will leave their hope's in ruin.
> 
> 2. If you do not like her style and you think she can do "better", don't say she could have done better. Instead challenger her to compose a work of a different style, give her suggestions on that style if she chooses to compose the piece you challenged her to.
> 
> Constructive Criticism, no one wants to hear the bleak end and closed hole of a situation.


You see this is the problem with composers today. They can't take criticism. You don't want me to be "judgemental," but you want me to give you my opinion. I don't think so, SenorTearduct.

If someone can't take my criticism, then I feel sorry for them. Whether or not danae can take it in the composing world is up to her, but nobody is going to give her a hand out. Composing is hard work, but be prepared for rejection and criticism.


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## Scott Good

Mirror Image said:


> No melody, no harmony, no rhythm, and no structure.


Sorry, but I hear all this stuff. Clear as a bell.


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## Mirror Image

Scott Good said:


> Sorry, but I hear all this stuff. Clear as a bell.


Good for you. I hear nonsense.


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## Scott Good

Mirror Image said:


> Good for you. I hear nonsense.


You call yourself an "expert" (and put others opinions down because of your supposed expertise), yet cannot hear the basic foundations in this relatively straight forward music?

No jazz musicians I have worked with would miss these details.


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## Mirror Image

Scott Good said:


> You call yourself an "expert" (and put others opinions down because of your supposed expertise), yet cannot hear the basic foundations in this relatively straight forward music?
> 
> No jazz musicians I have worked with would miss these details.


LOL....I never said I was an expert. Where did you read that I said I was an expert? This is supposed to be jazz? You could have fooled me.

Anyway, look Scott, I gave my opinion. For better or for worse, I was honest. God forbid I give an opinion!!!!


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## Scott Good

Mirror Image said:


> This is supposed to be jazz? You could have fooled me.


No. But the jazz musicians I know would be able to hear the melody and harmony and rhythm in this music.



Mirror Image said:


> Where did you read that I said I was an expert?


You imply that your musicianship implies a more worthwhile opinion - an expert perspective.


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## Mirror Image

As I sald, calm down. I just gave an opinion. It's not the end of the world.



Scott Good said:


> No. But the jazz musicians I know would be able to hear the melody and harmony and rhythm in this music.


Who cares, Scott!! I know I don't!! I gave an opinion, an opinion that evidently touched a nerve for you, so get over it and move on. *If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen!!*

If you want to be in the creative field you've got to learn how to deal with criticism. If you can't deal with it, then you should find yourself a new career as should danae.


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## Scott Good

Mirror Image said:


> Who cares, Scott!! I know I don't!! I gave an opinion, an opinion that evidently touched a nerve for you, so get over it and move on. *If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen!!*
> 
> If you want to be in the creative field you've got to learn how to deal with criticism. If you can't deal with it, then you should find yourself a new career as should danae.


ha ha ha!

you tell me to calm down. can't even take a little critique yourself!


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## Guest

danae said:


> These are two miniature pieces for piano, performed by me at a conservatory student concert.
> They are in fact exercises of style: the first refers to Prokofiev / Poulenc and the second to Messiaen.
> Also, there is a great distance between them. The first piece was my *very first* piece, written when I was 16. The second is actually more of an improvisation on Messiean's style and harmonic language, written 4 years ago.


Quite honestly I just dont get it, sounds like a random bunch of notes. not my cup of tea


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## SenorTearduct

All the worlds' a stage, and we men mearly players.
Oh loving hate o' hating love are these what we strive so quick fro' o' to?
Would a rose smell as sweet if we were to call it but other than a rose?
Goodnight
Farewell
Goodnight
Goodnight
Burning 
Burning
Burning
.


Is this anything other than poetry? Can we define it? Should we? at what cost? to what extent?
Tis true our measurement is only as good as our weakest instrument, yet when that instrument is a blind mind, what worth is a measurement?

These are questions not asked, as they (the questions) sit waiting to be asked before sound is ever struck, words ever spoken.

catch my drift?


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## chillowack

Mirror Image, I don't know if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, or what, but your comments toward danae have crossed the line from "constructive criticism" into "flaming."

I don't know the history you two have, but judging from your posts in these threads, I'd say you hold some kind of grudge toward danae, and you're using these "critiques" as an opportunity to slap her in the face as much as you can. These are nasty comments you're making now, not good faith critiques.

I agree with SenorTearduct and Scott Good, you need to re-think your approach here. You're getting more aggressive and irrational with each post, and at least three people have now called you on it. Maybe you should chill out, cut your losses, and post elsewhere for awhile.


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## Andy Loochazee

chillowack said:


> Mirror Image, I don't know if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, or what, but your comments toward danae have crossed the line from "constructive criticism" into "flaming."
> 
> I don't know the history you two have, but judging from your posts in these threads, I'd say you hold some kind of grudge toward danae, and you're using these "critiques" as an opportunity to slap her in the face as much as you can. These are nasty comments you're making now, not good faith critiques.
> 
> I agree with SenorTearduct and Scott Good, you need to re-think your approach here. You're getting more aggressive and irrational with each post, and at least three people have now called you on it. Maybe you should chill out, cut your losses, and post elsewhere for awhile.


Why the surprise? Haven't you worked out yet that it's "end of term" for the thrice banned MI, who's off to another Forum where the pastures are greener, so he thought he'd have a few digs at people before leaving. I bet it won't be long before he's back, for reasons which should be obvious.


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## Krummhorn

And we now return you to our regularly scheduled program _and_ the topic of this thread 



danae said:


> These are two miniature pieces for piano, performed by me at a conservatory student concert.
> They are in fact exercises of style: the first refers to Prokofiev / Poulenc and the second to Messiaen.
> Also, there is a great distance between them. The first piece was my *very first* piece, written when I was 16. The second is actually more of an improvisation on Messiean's style and harmonic language, written 4 years ago.


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## danae

Wow, I go away for a day and all hell breaks loose! 
Don't worry, and by all means *do not* feel the need to support me, because I'm confident I can take any kind of criticism. Besides, I'm used to MI's comments. They're always the same.


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## danae

Mirror Image said:


> Both of these pieces, to put it bluntly, are terrible....


Don't put it bluntly then. I asked for constructive criticism, not vindictive, venom-tongued agression. I can take criticism, as you very well know by now, but this just takes the whole thing to another level. You should think about the way you state your opinion, and maybe you should consider re-phrasing several comments, because I don't know if you're gonna have any friends left in the end.



Mirror Image said:


> No melody, no harmony, no rhythm, and no structure. You're just composing noise.


There is a difference between the *lack* of melody, rhythm and structure, and the *presence* of poorly composed (synonyms: terrible, bad, not remotely worth listening to) melody, rhythm and structure. These elements you mention are present in all 3 pieces. Whether or not they are well-composed, effective, interesting or whatever I meant them to be, that's another quetsion. In fact, that's one of the questions I would expect you to address, since there obviously is an intention to melody, rhythm and structure in every one of the pieces. 
Now, if there was no intention to melody or rhythm, if, for example I was attempting to write something like, let's say, Ligeti's "Atmospheres", would that still be a legitimate comment? Meaning would you have the same problem with *any* piece that lacks melody and rhythm (structure is another matter)?



Mirror Image said:


> It's just as bad as your other piece you submitted.


The other "piece" I submitted was a sample of free improvisation, not a composed piece. Maybe there is, on my part, a clarification problem, on what is and what is not a "piece". In any case, I greatly distinguish between the two (composition and improvisation), although I think they're very close to each other.



Mirror Image said:


> Where's the blood and glory?


Come again?



Mirror Image said:


> I'm sorry, but you should really rethink your music, because I don't hear anything remotely worth listening to here.


I _*am*_ rethinking my music every day. Of course, the reason for my constant rethinking of my music couldn't possibly be the fact that you "don't here anything remotely worth listening to" in it.


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## danae

Mirror Image said:


> If someone can't take my criticism, then I feel sorry for them. Whether or not danae can take it in the composing world is up to her, but nobody is going to give her a hand out.


No one has _ever_ given me a handout, as you put it. And I don't think that re-phrasing your criticism in a less personal and agressive way would amount to you giving me a "handout".



Mirror Image said:


> Composing is hard work, but be prepared for rejection and criticism.


Yes, it is hard work, and I have experienced both rejection and harsh criticism, neither of which came in the form of your totally dismissive comments.

And what is interesting is that these pieces are 3 of the 5 pieces I submitted in order to be accepted to the Music Academies of Rotterdam and Berlin. In Rotterdam I got in easy. They liked what I had submitted. 
In Berlin they said "OK, these are well-done, with melody, harmony etc, but here what we do is more avant-garde, so write something that makes broader use of instrumental effects and dissonance and then come see us again".

Funny isn't it?


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## danae

Mirror Image said:


> This is supposed to be jazz?


No, it's not. I don't know where you got that from.


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## danae

Aramis said:


> I think you should practice improvising with some simple jazz/swing backing rhythm to learn how to keep things together. It's the best way to improve yourself.


Maybe, if you're interested in jazz. I don't see how practicing jazz and swing improvisation is relevant to what I have uploaded on this thread. If you could elaborate please?


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## TresPicos

danae said:


> And what is interesting is that these pieces are 3 of the 5 pieces I submitted in order to be accepted to the Music Academies of Rotterdam and Berlin. In Rotterdam I got in easy. They liked what I had submitted.
> In Berlin they said "OK, these are well-done, with melody, harmony etc, but here what we do is more avant-garde, so write something that makes broader use of instrumental effects and dissonance and then come see us again".
> 
> Funny isn't it?


I guess MI can teach the Music Academies of Rotterdam and Berlin a thing or two about composing, then?


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## danae

TresPicos said:


> I guess MI can teach the Music Academies of Rotterdam and Berlin a thing or two about composing, then?


Please don't be so ironic because you're probably gonna start another wave of spiteful remarks on his part...

Apart form that, I don't wanna sound arrogant by saying that these are some of the pieces that got me into Rotterdam. The reason I mentioned this was that these very same pieces were rejected in Berlin due to the fact that they were too melodic and too tonal. In Berlin they like things to be more avant-gardish. And that's the funny thing: that they rejected them for the opposite reason for which MI rejected them.


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## Aramis

danae said:


> Maybe, if you're interested in jazz. I don't see how practicing jazz and swing improvisation is relevant to what I have uploaded on this thread. If you could elaborate please?


That's how I see it - when improvising, you have some kind of rhythm inside of your head, and if you want to practice and learn hot to create it, you should play with real rhythm that you can physically hear. Of course, it depends on what kind of improvisations you play, if you're not into jazz, perhaps it's just not your way.


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## danae

Aramis said:


> That's how I see it - when improvising, you have some kind of rhythm inside of your head, and if you want to practice and learn hot to create it, you should play with real rhythm that you can physically hear. Of course, it depends on what kind of improvisations you play, if you're not into jazz, perhaps it's just not your way.


I like jazz, but in this case, I mean in the music I uploaded, jazz is irrelevant. There is no such intention or premice. These pieces were inspired solely by the western european art music tradition, and specifically the first half of the 20th century.


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## Mirror Image

I think I made my point crystal clear. Let me know when actually compose some music, then get back with me.


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## SenorTearduct

MI that was mean 

Oh and when you said compose for an orchestra, did you mean like a full orchestra, or would a string orchestra suffice?


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## TresPicos

danae said:


> These are two miniature pieces for piano, performed by me at a conservatory student concert.
> They are in fact exercises of style: the first refers to Prokofiev / Poulenc and the second to Messiaen.
> Also, there is a great distance between them. The first piece was my *very first* piece, written when I was 16. The second is actually more of an improvisation on Messiean's style and harmonic language, written 4 years ago.





danae said:


> This is something I wrote in my first year in university. It was performed in yet another student concert. It's not a good performance, the flutist makes a number of mistakes, but at least you can make something out of it.


Wow! That was amazing!

Fresh and imaginative, at a pleasant level of "avant-garde-ness". When I hear stuff like this on the radio, from composers that I don't know that much about, I usually find myself placing orders on Amazon before the day is over.


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## danae

TresPicos said:


> Wow! That was amazing!
> 
> Fresh and imaginative, at a pleasant level of "avant-garde-ness". When I hear stuff like this on the radio, from composers that I don't know that much about, I usually find myself placing orders on Amazon before the day is over.


Oh man, I didn't expect *that* kind of positive reaction. You 're going too far though. I know all too well that this piece is immature. There is the promise of something, but it's certainly not something that could or would be performed outside the walls of the conservatorium.
It's good for what it is: a piece written by a first year university student. A lot of work needs to be done.


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## Mirror Image

SenorTearduct said:


> MI that was mean
> 
> Oh and when you said compose for an orchestra, did you mean like a full orchestra, or would a string orchestra suffice?


Either a full orchestra or a string orchestra. I would like to hear both.


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## Tapkaara

Very well done, Danae.

I will say that "Two Pieces" is perhaps just a touch too modernistic for me, but just a touch. Having said that, I found the two pieces to be unconventionally melodic and with a great sense of flow.

The first piece truly does have a bit of Prokofievian sarcasm and bit with a hint of jazz. The second piece reminded my of the piano music of Toru Takemitsu. This should certainly confirm the Messiaen influence because Takemitsu himself was a composer heavily influenced by Messiaen. So, it all comes together in a round about way.

I preferred the second piece...not because it is intrinsically better than the first, but the somewhat dark atmosphere it creates with the dissonances (while remaining tonal) was very evocative.

You have obvious talent as a composer and I think you should certainly continue to pursue your artistic activities.

Now I have to listen to the other work you posted...


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## danae

Tapkaara said:


> I will say that "Two Pieces" is perhaps just a touch too modernistic for me, but just a touch. Having said that, I found the two pieces to be unconventionally melodic and with a great sense of flow.
> 
> The first piece truly does have a bit of Prokofievian sarcasm and bit with a hint of jazz. The second piece reminded my of the piano music of Toru Takemitsu. This should certainly confirm the Messiaen influence because Takemitsu himself was a composer heavily influenced by Messiaen. So, it all comes together in a round about way.
> 
> I preferred the second piece...not because it is intrinsically better than the first, but the somewhat dark atmosphere it creates with the dissonances (while remaining tonal) was very evocative.


Thanks Tap  You are obviously in tune with musical aesthetics and everything you said about my influences is spot on. Now all I have to is build up a technique!


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