# How do you pronounce Turandot?



## Radames

It seems that it's the conventional practice to pronounce Turandot with its final t articulated. I know some people who don't. I got into it with a guy one time when I told him that every performance I went to had them pronouncing the t. He said every performance he heard had the t silent. I think he just had a hearing problem. Don't they always pronounce the t in modern performances? Should they? Apparently in the first performace with Toscanini and in early recordings they didn't. Some say it was Puccini's intention that his opera be pronounced Turando.

Here's a blog with many responses: http://medicine-opera.com/2008/12/turandot-without-the-t/


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## Bix

Tur an doh is how you pronounce it


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## Radames

Like Homer Simpson?


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## Bix

Yep, Turandot means daughter of Turan. Daughter is one of the English words we get from Persian - dokhtar - pronounced _doh-tar_. So the dot bit in Turandot is doh.


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## moody

Bix said:


> Tur an doh is how you pronounce it


Fraid not ,you sound the dot


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## deggial

you're all wrong, it's the last option


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## Bix

moody said:


> Fraid not ,you sound the dot


In the Nizami poem Turan-Dokht (the story Turandot is based on) you certainly would use the Persian pronunciation, but of course the International Phonetic Alphabet would argue dot.

But of course either dot or doh is acceptable depending on which viewpoint you take. Whether you got with Nizami or Puccini .............. I suppose it's his opera so go with dot, no doh, no dot.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Wrong

It's _TORNADO_


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## deggial

Bix said:


> In the Nizami poem Turan-Dokht (the story Turandot is based on) you certainly would use the Persian pronunciation, but of course the International Phonetic Alphabet would argue dot.


persian schmersian, she's Chinese!


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## Bix

deggial said:


> persian schmersian, she's Chinese!


Yes she is, but the opera is based on a Persian poem.


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## Bix

Mind you, in Chinese we are all saying it wrong 图兰朵 is Tú lán duo


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## deggial

mmmm, so are all those Metastasio librettos based on Suetonius and whatnot and the characters still have Italianised names.


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## katdad

Bix said:


> Yep, Turandot means daughter of Turan. Daughter is one of the English words we get from Persian - dokhtar - pronounced _doh-tar_. So the dot bit in Turandot is doh.


Well, if you're pronouncing the word via its original Persian syntax, then the final "t" is silent. But if the pronunciation is intended to be Italian, then you would sound the final "t". I've always heard it with the "t" spoken, as "tour-ahn-dought", slightly soft on that final "t".


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## Bix

katdad said:


> Well, if you're pronouncing the word via its original Persian syntax, then the final "t" is silent. But if the pronunciation is intended to be Italian, then you would sound the final "t". I've always heard it with the "t" spoken, as "tour-ahn-dought", slightly soft on that final "t".


Italian is my second language so I would agree with you, it would be tuRAndott and in English it would be Turendot. If your commenting on spoken language pronunciation you would be speaking of phonics and the articulatory features of words not syntax.

I've always heard it with the T but I'm abstaining from agreeing with it on a preferring the poem basis


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## Couchie

Better to just not pronounce it at all and discuss Tristan und Isolde instead.


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## Bix

Couchie said:


> Better to just not pronounce it at all and discuss Tristan und Isolde instead.


So that's TryStan und I-Sold-Er by Varg-nuh


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## Mahlerian

Bix said:


> Mind you, in Chinese we are all saying it wrong 图兰朵 is Tú lán duo


So let's correct Puccini's setting so that it fits the tonal language.


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## suteetat

I suppose if Toscanini and Puccini pronounced it Turando then Turando is good enough for me!


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## Ukko

Too-RAN-doh, so it can be rhymed with Commando in heroic poetry... or perhaps in doggerel
("There was a young lady named Turandot,
Who... etc.)


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## Celloman

How do I pronounce "Turandot"?

That's easy. I don't.


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## Crudblud

You might be surprised to learn that _Turandot_ has never come up in any conversation I have ever had with anyone I have ever met, so I haven't had to navigate this particular phonetic minefield as of yet.


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## bigshot

No one outside of Europe pronounces the o umlaut properly in Gotterdammerung.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

bigshot said:


> No one outside of Europe pronounces the o umlaut properly in Gotterdammerung.


What about German speaking people outside Europe?


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> You might be surprised to learn that _Turandot_ has never come up in any conversation I have ever had with anyone I have ever met, so I haven't had to navigate this particular phonetic minefield as of yet.


and the only place it may elsewhere crop up is in a crossword puzzle, the pronunciation again a dead issue.


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## Jobis

Bix said:


> So that's TryStan und I-Sold-Er by Varg-nuh


I think you mean 'Iseult' as it was in the original french tales.


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## Tristan

I always pronounced it "Turando" because I thought it was French and so the final-T was silent. I'm not sure why I thought it was French, but that's how I pronounced it. I now pronounce it with the "t" but I have nothing against the t-less pronunciation. 

I wonder how the t-less pronunciation came about; in Persian, final-t is pronounced. French is the only language I know of where it isn't pronounced so I wonder if some people down the line made the same mistake I did...

It's an Italian opera based on a Persian story about a Chinese woman with a French-like pronunciation of her name. Oy.


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## PetrB

Depends upon what food I have in my mouth while talking....


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## Mahlerian

bigshot said:


> No one outside of Europe pronounces the o umlaut properly in Gotterdammerung.


Which, given your location, includes you as well....


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## PetrB

deggial said:


> persian schmersian, she's Chinese!


The opera, In Italian, ergo, Italian rules of pronunciation, regardless of etymological origin.


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## Guest

> Origin and pronunciation of the name[edit]
> 
> Turandot is a Persian word and name meaning "the daughter of Turan", Turan being a region of Central Asia which used to be part of the Persian Empire. In Persian, the fairy tale is known as Turandokht, with "dokht" being a contraction for dokhtar (meaning daughter), and both the "kh" and "t" are clearly pronounced. However, according to Puccini scholar Patrick Vincent Casali, the final "t" should not be sounded in the pronunciation of the opera's name or when referring to the title character. Puccini never pronounced the final "t", according to soprano Rosa Raisa, who was the first singer to interpret the title role. Furthermore, Dame Eva Turner, the most renowned Turandot of the inter-war period, insisted on pronouncing the word as "Turan-do" (i.e. without the final "t"), as television interviews with her attest. As Casali notes, too, the musical setting of many of Calaf's utterances of the name makes sounding the final "t" all but impossible.[1] However Simonetta Puccini, Puccini's granddaughter and keeper of the Villa Puccini and Mausoleum, has stated that the final "t" must be pronounced. Maestro Italo Marchini questioned her about this in 2002 at the Villa in Torre del Lago and she stated that in Italian the name would be Turandotta. In the Venetian dialect of Carlo Gozzi the final syllables are usually dropped and words end in a consonant, ergo Turandott, as the name has been made Venetian.


Goo' ol' wikipediat!


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## moody

suteetat said:


> I suppose if Toscanini and Puccini pronounced it Turando then Turando is good enough for me!


Who said they did---unlike 95% of members here I've been listening to opera for about 63 years and have only ever heard it with the dot pronunciation....does it matter ?


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## Guest

moody said:


> ....does it matter ?


You even have to ask????


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## suteetat

moody said:


> Who said they did---unlike 95% of members here I've been listening to opera for about 63 years and have only ever heard it with the dot pronunciation....does it matter ?


Rosa Raisa who sang Turandot at the world premier under the baton of Toscanini did. She gave several interviews in the past and she always said that both Puccini and Toscanini always pronounced it Turando! 
This has been well documented all over the place.


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## Delicious Manager

Silent 't's at the ends of words are French. Puccini was Italian. The final 't' should be articulated, just as it should be in Jorge Bolet's name (because he wasn't French either).

It is a source of constant annoyance to me when people pronounce words as if they are from a language other than the one from which they actually derive (eg 'ei' always pronounced as if it's German when, in fact, only German and Danish pronounce this letter combination as the English "eye") and pronouncing Arvo Pärt's surname name as if he's German and the 'ä' is an a-umlaut (ae). Listen to how Estonian and Finnish speakers pronounce this letter and you will hear it's quite different from the German one.

TurandoT.


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## elgar's ghost

Can you imagine if it would have been the third riddle for Calaf? 

'How do you properly pronounce Turandot...oh, f...'


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## moody

suteetat said:


> Rosa Raisa who sang Turandot at the world premier under the baton of Toscanini did. She gave several interviews in the past and she always said that both Puccini and Toscanini always pronounced it Turando!
> This has been well documented all over the place.


Well well,fancy that ,in which case why are you the only one to have noticed ?


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## suteetat

moody said:


> Well well,fancy that ,in which case why are you the only one to have noticed ?


well if you actually read this thread properly, a number of posts already mentioned this, even links to Raisa's interview etc so
true question should be why you have not noticed!
Not to mention number of articles/forum threads in Opera News, opera-L, wikipedia etc etc, this is an old topics....I would have thought anyone who have listened to opera as long as you have, would have known about this a long time ago!



> Silent 't's at the ends of words are French. Puccini was Italian. The final 't' should be articulated, just as it should be in Jorge Bolet's name (because he wasn't French either).


One explaination that I came across was that the source of story for Gozzi's adaptation for Turandot the play which ultimately became source for Puccini was Les Mille et un jours by François Pétis de la Croix so Puccini kept the French pronounciation.


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## DavidA

I am no expert on Italian but on the Mehta recording Pavarotti pronounces it Tur-an-dott..


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## Radames

Crudblud said:


> You might be surprised to learn that _Turandot_ has never come up in any conversation I have ever had with anyone I have ever met, so I haven't had to navigate this particular phonetic minefield as of yet.


Really? Well if it happens don't argue. I almost got into a fistfight.


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## Radames

moody said:


> Who said they did---unlike 95% of members here I've been listening to opera for about 63 years and have only ever heard it with the dot pronunciation....does it matter ?


I have been listening for 30 yeas and have only heard it pronounced dot in performance. There is a radio host in VT - Peter Fox Smith- who always says Turandoh. He points to the lines in the opera where Turanot is rhymed with something - and it's always an o sound.

In the second act ping pang and pong sing:

Tutto andava secondo
l'antichissima regola del mondo
Poi nacque Turandot

Translation: "The ancient rule of the world succeeded itself again and again... then came Turandot."

Apparently early recordings had a silent "t". The first recording to sound the final "t" was the 1959 RCA
Nilsson/Bjoerling/Tebaldi set. It is speculated that Leinsdorf may have made the case for a sounded "t," possibly based on contemporaryGerman, Swiss and Austrain practice.


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## schigolch

My favorite ever recording of _Turandot_ is the one by Franco Ghione, with Merli, Olivero and Cigna, back in the 1930s, and you can hear "Turando" there.

Then again, I don't think this is really something to fight about. What's about the Turandot written in German by Ferruccio Busoni, an Italian composer?. Or the _Turanda_, with a final a, written by Antonio Bazzini?.


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## Bix

Jobis said:


> I think you mean 'Iseult' as it was in the original french tales.


My attempt at sarcasm clearly failed there 

Iseult could be pronounced in Breton or Gealic in the medieval French poems. Mind you the whole thing has been nicked from Vis and Rāmin and re-jiggered.


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## Bix

Tristan said:


> I wonder how the t-less pronunciation came about; in Persian, final-t is pronounced.


you're right it is, but the dot is shortened from Dohktar, so the T is in the middle.



Tristan said:


> It's an Italian opera based on a Persian story about a Chinese woman with a French-like pronunciation of her name. Oy.


:lol:


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## moody

suteetat said:


> well if you actually read this thread properly, a number of posts already mentioned this, even links to Raisa's interview etc so
> true question should be why you have not noticed!
> Not to mention number of articles/forum threads in Opera News, opera-L, wikipedia etc etc, this is an old topics....I would have thought anyone who have listened to opera as long as you have, would have known about this a long time ago!
> 
> I'm not interested in the gabbling,when are you going to tell every announcer and every critic around the world,I have never heard your pronounciation
> 
> One explaination that I came across was that the source of story for Gozzi's adaptation for Turandot the play which ultimately became source for Puccini was Les Mille et un jours by François Pétis de la Croix so Puccini kept the French pronounciation.


I am not interested in the gabbling,but when are you going to tell every announcer and every critic around the world ?
Also do try to be polite if you know how.


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## superhorn

Yes, Turandot does mean "daughter of Turan" in Persian(actually Farsi), but Turan is not a person but a geographical area , basically the central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union, Turkmenistan,Uzbekistan,
Kazakhstan,Kirghizstan and Tajikistan ,plus what is now called Xinjiang province in the far west of China, or Eastern Turkestan .
So Turandot is metaphoricaly the daughter of this region . Turkic peoples , Mongols, Manchus, Finno-Ugrian peoples, and even Japanese and Koreans are sometimes called "Turanian" peoples . And to Turkic peoples, the concept of Turan, the homeland of the Turks, is sacred idea rather like the concept of Aztlan to Hispanics of Indian origin .
The Turkic peoples have an ancient relationship with the Chinese , who were their overlords about 1500 years ago , and China has controlled East Turkestan, which they call Xinjiang province, since 1949.


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## suteetat

moody said:


> I am not interested in the gabbling,but when are you going to tell every announcer and every critic around the world ?
> Also do try to be polite if you know how.


Just curious


> I suppose if Toscanini and Puccini pronounced it Turando then Turando is good enough for me!


exactly where is this not polite!
You have been rather condescending since my original post, why? What I stated is a common knowledge, well documented,nothing made up, published, talked about in many many places. So the last 60 years, more people pronounced it with standard Italian pronounciation, what's wrong with mentioning that Puccini and Toscanini pronounced it differently or that I care more about how Puccini or Toscanini pronounced it rather than how other people around the world pronounce it?

You will get polite when you are actually polite as well!


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## Adeodatus100

Turando - because (with apologies to Edith Wharton) it's clear that an Italian opera about a Chinese princess should be pronounced as if it's French for the clearer understanding of English-speaking audiences.


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## bigshot

I pronounce it "tourettes". Don't ask me how I prounounce "puccini"! It's unprintable!


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## deggial

poossini? haha.

in regards to the name cropping up in conversation: ask Three Tenors fans which opera does Nessun dorma come from and see how many are stumped. Then you can get the double satisfaction of enlightening them _and_ peddling your own version of the pronunciation


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## moody

suteetat said:


> Just curious
> 
> exactly where is this not polite!
> You have been rather condescending since my original post, why? What I stated is a common knowledge, well documented,nothing made up, published, talked about in many many places. So the last 60 years, more people pronounced it with standard Italian pronounciation, what's wrong with mentioning that Puccini and Toscanini pronounced it differently or that I care more about how Puccini or Toscanini pronounced it rather than how other people around the world pronounce it?
> 
> You will get polite when you are actually polite as well!


Telling me that I ought to read the posts properly is damned rude.
I did not miss any statements of fact,every announcer on every music programme pronounces the T .The people I mix with are mostly opera buffs and I have never heard that pronunciation questioned. Therefore there is no reason to go through a pile of mixed -up nonsense.
Macleod has come up with the definitive information as far as I'm concerned---are you one of the people who pronounce Verdi as Vurdi which is certainly a problem that you should perhaps sort out.


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## TresPicos

I used to say "turan-doh", but after reading this thread, I don't know what to say anymore. I think I'll just go with "to-may-to". No, wait... "to-mah-to". Oh, darn...


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## suteetat

moody said:


> Telling me that I ought to read the posts properly is damned rude.
> .


Shall we examine a few facts here: (apologize to other people as this is not all that relevance to the topic of discussion).



> Who said they did---unlike 95% of members here I've been listening to opera for about 63 years and have only ever heard it with the dot pronunciation....does it matter ?


your first reply to my post, I would say this is rather on the rude side of civilized conversation!



> Well well,fancy that ,in which case why are you the only one to have noticed ?


I would say your second reply was definitely rude!

Let me give you a hint, when you are rude to someone else for no good reason, what do you expect in return?



> I did not miss any statements of fact......
> Macleod has come up with the definitive information as far as I'm concerned


Did you miss an article written for NPR that quoted Patrick Vincent Casali' s article from Opera Quarterly!
The article that also mentioned Rosa Raisa's interview?
Don't you consider these articles and interview as reliable source and rather factual?



> Macleod has come up with the definitive information as far as I'm concerned


Hmm.. I assume you talked about his information from wikipedia. If you look at wikipedia's article and the reference
that it made regarding pronounciation, it came directly from Casali's Opera Quarterly article mentioned in the NPR article above!
So, you said the first article was a mixed up nonsense not worth your consideration but accept fragment of a wiki article that shared the same content and used exactly the same reference?

After quite a few people provided informations regarding Raisa's interview before I even posted on this thread, why did you asked that "Well well,fancy that ,in which case why are you the only one to have noticed ?"
I think a lot of people noticed that long before this thread is even started!

Too bad, I was curious to hear what other people might have said about the fact that the article alluded to Leinsdorf being the first one to use TuranDOT pronounciation (that was recorded or documented) in his Turandot and suddenly everyone followed his trend and ignored the traditional TuranDOH pronounciation that was in practice before that.
Instead, I am stuck with this 'rude' exchange!


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## moody

SUTEETAT.
I was around before the Leinsdorf thing and so were you ,weren't you.
As for it being in the public domain,you would think there would have been a deafening response agreeing no T
BUT,never let it be said that I would be unfair and something has arisen to make me doubt my convictions---and this is from the horse's mouth. It is also what I consider to be real proof.
As ridiculous as it may seem this problem has been niggling at me since yesterday. Then,in a blinding flash, the thought came to me that somewhere I had an introduction by Dame Eva Turner on disc, this was made in her 97th year for the centenary of HMV I think.She was the greatest Turandot of all time and her voice was so stupendous that it could be heard outside Covent Garden Opera House.
Her diction is quite fabulous and you would think her age was that of a 50 year old and not a near centenarian.
She does not quite pronounce the T,I played it over and over ,it sounds as if the T is coming but it does not and is cut off.
Also the o sound is as in chop and not dough and so it seems as if this must be correct.
She worked extensively in Italy and with Alfano who finished the opera after Puccini's demise.
This all proves,although not of vast import, that one can always learn something ,but proof must be supplied and I can argue happily with you but not Dame Eva.
Also one must attempt to get things right or not be taken seriously.


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## suteetat

Yes, Eva Turner was one of the greatest Turandot and I have been enjoying her recording very much.

One has to wonder why the interviewer kept pronoucing it his way even after she said the proper pronounciation at least in her day and quoting the very first performance of Turandot which she attended.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> SUTEETAT.
> I was around before the Leinsdorf thing and so were you ,weren't you.
> As for it being in the public domain,you would think there would have been a deafening response agreeing no T
> BUT,never let it be said that I would be unfair and something has arisen to make me doubt my convictions---and this is from the horse's mouth. It is also what I consider to be real proof.
> As ridiculous as it may seem this problem has been niggling at me since yesterday. Then,in a blinding flash, the thought came to me that somewhere I had an introduction by Dame Eva Turner on disc, this was made in her 97th year for the centenary of HMV I think.She was the greatest Turandot of all time and her voice was so stupendous that it could be heard outside Covent Garden Opera House.
> Her diction is quite fabulous and you would think her age was that of a 50 year old and not a near centenarian.
> She does not quite pronounce the T,I played it over and over ,it sounds as if the T is coming but it does not and is cut off.
> Also the o sound is as in chop and not dough and so it seems as if this must be correct.
> She worked extensively in Italy and with Alfano who finished the opera after Puccini's demise.
> This all proves,although not of vast import, that one can always learn something ,but proof must be supplied and I can argue happily with you but not Dame Eva.
> Also one must attempt to get things right or not be taken seriously.


Yes, agreed, Dame Eva has authority. But so surely does Pavarotti as an Italian. He sounds the t at the end. But then so was Toscanini.

Perhaps this is something that there is no definite answer to.


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## DavidA

suteetat said:


> Yes, Eva Turner was one of the greatest Turandot and I have been enjoying her recording very much.
> 
> One has to wonder why the interviewer kept pronoucing it his way even after she said the proper pronounciation at least in her day and quoting the very first performance of Turandot which she attended.


What a grand old lady!

She actually looked the part to from photos. Many Turandots are not blessed with what attracted her admirers - her beauty.


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## norman bates

PetrB said:


> The opera, In Italian, ergo, Italian rules of pronunciation, regardless of etymological origin.





Delicious Manager said:


> Silent 't's at the ends of words are French. Puccini was Italian. The final 't' should be articulated, just as it should be in Jorge Bolet's name (because he wasn't French either).
> 
> It is a source of constant annoyance to me when people pronounce words as if they are from a language other than the one from which they actually derive.


if so, madama butterfly should be pronounced madama boot ter flee.
Obviously, nobody pronounce it this way. And I'm italian


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## moody

deggial said:


> poossini? haha.
> 
> in regards to the name cropping up in conversation: ask Three Tenors fans which opera does Nessun dorma come from and see how many are stumped. Then you can get the double satisfaction of enlightening them _and_ peddling your own version of the pronunciation


But they know it's a song about soccer ,right ?


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## deggial

one of the greatest sports anthems :lol:


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## Zabirilog

In Finland we say (nearly) everything like written, so I say just Turandot... but I'll start calling it Tomato!!!


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## katdad

Ah, flame wars! I'm usually one of the culprits so it's fun to just sit back and watch the shuttlecock go back and forth over the net, eh?


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## Radames

katdad said:


> Ah, flame wars! I'm usually one of the culprits so it's fun to just sit back and watch the shuttlecock go back and forth over the net, eh?


Like I said - my conversation almost came to blows!



suteetat said:


> Yes, Eva Turner was one of the greatest Turandot and I have been enjoying her recording very much.
> 
> One has to wonder why the interviewer kept pronoucing it his way even after she said the proper pronounciation at least in her day and quoting the very first performance of Turandot which she attended.


I know why - because if you have only heard it pronounced TuranDOT it is hard to change. I understand the argument for TuranDOH, but when the word comes out of my mouth it's TuranDOT. I have a hard time changing. It would be like saying tom-ah-to after saying tom-ay-to all these years.


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## DavidA

I must say - never so much discussion about a minor point!


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## Guest

Radames said:


> It would be like saying tom-ah-to after saying tom-ay-to all these years.


Or vice-versa, of course!


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## suteetat

Radames said:


> I know why - because if you have only heard it pronounced TuranDOT it is hard to change. I understand the argument for TuranDOH, but when the word comes out of my mouth it's TuranDOT. I have a hard time changing. It would be like saying tom-ah-to after saying tom-ay-to all these years.


Yes, it is hard to make a change and I was used to TuranDOT for a long time before finding out about this as well.
But, assuming that it was TuranDOH before Leinsdorf's recording came out ( I don't have Borkh/Erede recording but Serafin/Callas recording which came out before Leinsdorf also clearly pronounced TuranDOH) suddenly within a few years,
TuranDOT caught on. I wonder why? At least it was noticeable enough in the change that 3 years after Leinsdorf' s recording came out, John Gutman interviewd Raisa and asked her what the proper pronounciation is. 
Some recordings of Madame Butterfly also tried to correct Puccini's mistake (I think it was more intentional rather than a goof on Puccini's part) and had Butterfly sang the correct name "BF Pinkerton" instead of "FB Pinkerton" as in the libretto but that never really caught on. Not surprising, in that particular line BF Pinkerton sounded very awkward and FB Pinkerton sounded much better. TuranDOH is also much easier to sing especially if one has to hold it longer or if it is part of a legato line. May be we will need one of the big HIP conductors to take up Turandot for TuranDOH to makea comeback again!


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## Seattleoperafan

Here is the final word on the subject from THE opera expert:
http://www.seattleoperablog.com/2012/07/how-to-pronounce-it-and-other-riddles.html


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## Bix

In the words of Emperor doodle the twelfth........... Uh huh!


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## guythegreg

I think they got into the sherry.


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## MAuer

suteetat said:


> Some recordings of Madame Butterfly also tried to correct Puccini's mistake (I think it was more intentional rather than a goof on Puccini's part) and had Butterfly sang the correct name "BF Pinkerton" instead of "FB Pinkerton" as in the libretto but that never really caught on. Not surprising, in that particular line BF Pinkerton sounded very awkward and FB Pinkerton sounded much better. TuranDOH is also much easier to sing especially if one has to hold it longer or if it is part of a legato line. May be we will need one of the big HIP conductors to take up Turandot for TuranDOH to makea comeback again!


I think Pinkerton's name was originally Francis Blummy Pinkerton (odd middle name; I know), hence Butterfly's references to "F. B. Pinkerton." Unfortunately, I'm really not familiar with David Belasco's source material for his play.


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## RobertaP

I'm sorry, but I disagree for the following reason: There are no Italian names that end in T. If you wished to pronounce the T in Italian, it would be spelled Turandotte, which is the spelling of the original Italian play by Gozzi. Also, FYI, Puccini did NOT pronounce the final T. The original Turandot, Rosa Raisa, is quoted; "Puccini says 'Turan-do', Toscanini says 'Turan-do', I say 'Turan-do'."


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## RobertaP

Seattleoperafan said:


> Here is the final word on the subject from THE opera expert:
> http://www.seattleoperablog.com/2012/07/how-to-pronounce-it-and-other-riddles.html


Except THE opera expert doesn't seem to know that the original Turandot, Rosa Raisa, is documented as saying "Puccini says Turan-doh, Toscanini says Turan-doh, I say Turan-do." It is generally agreed by Puccini scholars like Patrick Cersali that Puccini himself did not pronounce the T.


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## Pugg

RobertaP said:


> I'm sorry, but I disagree for the following reason: There are no Italian names that end in T. If you wished to pronounce the T in Italian, it would be spelled Turandotte, which is the spelling of the original Italian play by Gozzi. Also, FYI, Puccini did NOT pronounce the final T. The original Turandot, Rosa Raisa, is quoted; "Puccini says 'Turan-do', Toscanini says 'Turan-do', I say 'Turan-do'."





RobertaP said:


> Except THE opera expert doesn't seem to know that the original Turandot, Rosa Raisa, is documented as saying "Puccini says Turan-doh, Toscanini says Turan-doh, I say Turan-do." It is generally agreed by Puccini scholars like Patrick Cersali that Puccini himself did not pronounce the T.


Good and value points, also welcome to Talk Classical.


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## Guest

RobertaP said:


> Except THE opera expert doesn't seem to know that the original Turandot, Rosa Raisa, is documented as saying "Puccini says Turan-doh, Toscanini says Turan-doh, I say Turan-do." It is generally agreed by Puccini scholars like Patrick Cersali that Puccini himself did not pronounce the T.


Perhaps THE opera expert doesn't, but it's not clear either way from the blog.

As for what Puccini himself said, so what? All Rosa Raisa was saying is that she will say whatever the composer and conductor say. Judging by Toscanini's reputation, who would say otherwise??


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