# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Round 1, Match 1): Callas vs Raisa



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Thank you Vivalagentenuova for lending me your knowledge!!!

Maria Callas, USA, 1923-1977






Rosa Raisa, Poland 1893-1963






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

I don't know the backstory behind Ros Raisa's recording but let me take a stab at it. Immediately before recording this, she has a gentleman, who happens to look like Paul Newman and improvise Lord Byron-like poetry about her, demand that she go on a long romantic walk along the Polish beach backdropped by the setting sun, to which she responds, "Just one moment, I've got to make this recording thing. I'll be quick!"

Anyway, on an unrelated note, I voted for Callas.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I liked Raisa's 'Bolero,' but she does some strange things with her voice. I LOVE Callas's version and the way she shades her voice, the breezy "_o caro sogno dolce ebbrezza_, the rhythmic verve, and that high E!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Two very accomplished ladies enjoying themselves... Ah, me. I suspect the Raisa recording is one of those instances in which the conditions of recording interpose themselves somewhat between us and the artist; I'd guess that the tempo would have been slightly less breathless live, though I must say she isn't derailed by it. Dynamics are flattened out too; neither she nor her band show much awareness of the markings in the score, some of which are surprisingly quiet. Callas predictably takes these very seriously, and the piece is revealed as more interesting than we thought it was. With smiles for Raisa, I have to give this one to Callas. But I wish she hadn't interpolated that high note at the end.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I was not familiar with Raisa. The conducting was too fast for her but that was not her fault. What really stood out for me with her were her trills. She may have the most amazing trill I have ever heard. They are extraordinary! She had a beautiful voice but she had marks against her for avoiding the low note and the high note.
Callas.... well, this is one of my favorite Callas arias. Every single word is brought to life with such joy and fun and she unified her registers really well here. I am not sure if I really like the high note at the end. Other than that, it is a perfect rendition of the aria and she gets my vote.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I was not familiar with Raisa. The conducting was too fast for her but that was not her fault. What really stood out for me with her were her trills. She may have the most amazing trill I have ever heard. They are extraordinary! She had a beautiful voice but she had marks against her for avoiding the low note and the high note.
> Callas.... well, this is one of my favorite Callas arias. Every single word is brought to life with such joy and fun and she unified her registers really well here. I am not sure if I really like the high note at the end. Other than that, it is a perfect rendition of the aria and she gets my vote.


I unabashedly *love* the high note at the end! I got so used to it over the years that I miss it when it's not sung! _Pace_ those who object to it!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I wouldn't mind the high note if it were easy and vibrant. Well...not as much, anyway.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I wouldn't mind the high note if it were easy and vibrant. Well...not as much, anyway.


It's a high E and is at the very limit of Callas's range. When she sang the role in Florence she also interpolated the high E, though she momentarily splits the note, but it rings out more freely.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

A _locus classicus_ of Callas's art and how good it is to follow the score and see how she takes note of all the composer's markings. Raisa is very good too, but the piece doesn't sound nearly so interesting. Callas makes it into something quite magical,

PS Just as an aside, it does rather annoy me when Callas is referred to as a US soprano.Yes she was born there, but, aside from a couple of years between 1945 and 1947, she never lived there again after leaving for Greece at the age of thirteen. She later even gave up her American citizenship and took up her Greek citizenship. There is little doubt that she considered herself Greek rather than American.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

P


Tsaraslondon said:


> A _locus classicus_ of Callas's art and how good it is to follow the score and see how she takes note of all the composer's markings. Raisa is very good too, but the piece doesn't sound nearly so interesting. Callas makes it into something quite magical,
> 
> PS Just as an aside, it does rather annoy me when Callas is referred to as a US soprano.Yes she was born there, but, aside from a couple of years between 1945 and 1947, she never lived there again after leaving for Greece at the age of thirteen. She later even gave up her American citizenship and took up her Greek citizenship. There is little doubt that she considered herself Greek rather than American.


So the first thirteen years in the U.S. are chopped liver? Plus Mary Ann only gave up her American citizenship because that would facilitate her marriage to Aristo. . And, after she left Greece, she never went back there to live, if that's any measure of nationality. But she lived in the perfect place, Paris!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> P
> 
> So the first thirteen years in the U.S. are chopped liver? Plus Mary Ann only gave up her American citizenship because that would facilitate her marriage to Aristo. . And, after she left Greece, she never went back there to live, if that's any measure of nationality.


I know Americans like to claim her as their own, but there is ample evidence to suggest that she considered herself Greek through and through. Her career was European rather than American. Indeed Tebaldi had more of an American presence than she did. She set up a scholarship to help young singers in Greece not the US. She showed no great love for the USA, not surprisingly considering the way the press over there treated her. In Greece she is a national hero. I'm half Greek myself so no doubt I'm biased, but I will always think of her as a Greek soprano, not an American one, and I think you'll find it's usally only Americans who refer to her as an American soprano.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I know Americans like to claim her as their own, but there is ample evidence to suggest that she considered herself Greek through and through. Her career was European rather than American. Indeed Tebaldi had more of an American presence than she did. She set up a scholarship to help young singers in Greece not the US. She showed no great love for the USA, not surprisingly considering the way the press over there treated her. In Greece she is a national hero. I'm half Greek myself so no doubt I'm biased, but I will always think of her as a Greek soprano, not an American one.


I, too, consider her Greek-American, as they style nationalities over here. And the press in the U.S. hold no sway in mistreating her - the world press did, too, join the bandwagon. Where her career flourished was as much chance as intent - had she been hired by the Metropolitan Opera, she might've had an American career. Chance also played a part in the scholarship - who knows why Vasso Devetzy's motives were. She lived in Greece, so that's where she stablished the scholarship. Let's remember she defrauded both Callas sisters of a large portion of the estate.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I was determined to listen to this one with an open mind as I know the Callas version so well. Callas' use of tonal colours and her need to flip into a very separate head register make for an uncomfortable listen. I'm also not getting a sense of Elena's joy at her approaching wedding. Instead there is a sense of foreboding about what is shortly to happen.

Raisa's voice is more even. However, there is very little characterisation and the speed at which she takes the piece means that she trips over some of the fioriture.

I'm reminded of Callas' assertion that she was so different that when people first heard they weren't sure about her singing, but it was when they heard another soprano in the same role that they realised they were missing the embodiment of expression that was Callas' art.

Neither is technically perfect here, although once past the first section Raisa is pretty close to it. However, Callas' more considered delivery of the music makes her the winner for me.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> I, too, consider her Greek-American, as they style nationalities over here. And the press in the U.S. hold no sway in mistreating her - the world press did, too, join the bandwagon. Where her career flourished was as much chance as intent - had she been hired by the Metropolitan Opera, she might've had an American career. Chance also played a part in the scholarship - who knows why Vasso Devetzy's motives were. She lived in Greece, so that's where she stablished the scholarship. Let's remember she defrauded both Callas sisters of a large part of the estate.


The whole Vasso Devetzi situation has never been explained, it's true. Who knows what was going on there? That said I'm sure I read that Callas donated the fee from one of her performances in Greece to establish the scholarship and this would have been before Devetzi was in her life, so the seeds had already been sown.

It is also true that it is no doubt chance that her career ended up being mostly European, but you could say that about almost anyone. Artists go where the work is. The Met was very late on the Callas bandwagon. Why on earth did Bing wait so long before hiring her? And, let's face it, the Met treated her very shoddily when she did sing there. She was probably quite relieved that Bing "fired" her when he did.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Callas and nationality is a strange one. She did consider herself more Greek than anything else, but she also felt a bit of a fish out of water no matter where she was and not only did she move around a lot from country to country, in her early years she was continually moving from one apartment to the next in both New York and Athens so that would have contributed to a feeling of rootlessness no doubt too.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The whole Vasso Devetzi situation has never been explained, it's true. Who knows what was going on there? That said I'm sure I read that Callas donated the fee from one of her performances in Greece to establish the scholarship and this would have been before Devetzi was in her life, so the seeds had already been sown.
> 
> It is also true that it is no doubt chance that her career ended up being mostly European, but you could say that about almost anyone. Artists go where the work is. The Met was very late on the Callas bandwagon. Why on earth did Bing wait so long before hiring her? And, let's face it, the Met treated her very shoddily when she did sing there. She was probably quite relieved that Bing "fired" her when he did.


Or the Met was very early on the Callas bandwagon, remember she was offered a contract by Edward Johnson, but it was a 'beginners contract' or one for a secondary singer and Callas didn't think the roles offered her were suitable for a debut and turned them down. I have always thought it strange that Paris and New York waited so long to get her booked.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Or the Met was very early on the Callas bandwagon, remember she was offered a contract by Edward Johnson, but it was a 'beginners contract' or one for a secondary singer and Callas didn't think the roles offered her were suitable for a debut and turned them down. I have always thought it strange that Paris and New York waited so long to get her booked.
> 
> N.


Well Paris wasn't such a major operatic centre at that time, certainly not as big as La Scala, London or the Met. Mind you she didn't appear in Vienna until 1956 and then only because Karajan took the La Scala company there.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

I have my reservations about Raisa's overall voice timbre, as if the recording has been speeded up, but it's not the case here. At that breakneck speed I'd say the performance is surprisingly good, but I prefer more luxury and heft of Callas' voice. She perfectly knows what she does at each point and this is hypnotizing. The top note does not bother me at all (at least not in a sense that I really have to brace myself to experience it...)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The whole Vasso Devetzi situation has never been explained, it's true. Who knows what was going on there? That said I'm sure I read that Callas donated the fee from one of her performances in Greece to establish the scholarship and this would have been before Devetzi was in her life, so the seeds had already been sown.
> 
> It is also true that it is no doubt chance that her career ended up being mostly European, but you could say that about almost anyone. Artists go where the work is. The Met was very late on the Callas bandwagon. Why on earth did Bing wait so long before hiring her? And, let's face it, the Met treated her very shoddily when she did sing there. She was probably quite relieved that Bing "fired" her when he did.


Not until she became svelte did Bing want her. Bonardi muddled some of the communication, or Meneghini did. Fees were a bone of contention. When Chicago hired her and she was a sensation, Bing capitulated and traveled to Chicago to sign her up. By the time she appeared at the Met, she was in decline.

I don't think the Metropolitan Opera treated her any worse than the other artists, they just had a different system than she was used to. She had to fit into the machine that was the Metropolitan, where scheduling was a major undertaking. The system at La Scala was the presention of one opera for a number of consecutive performances (with two or three days in between performances), while the Met presented five or six different operas per week and an artist could sing Norma one day, Traviata three days later, Norma again after two days, Lucia four days later. Almost no rehearsal, whereas at La Scala, she was singing mostly in new productions so there were ample rehearsals, and they built everything around her (except *Andrea Chenier*). No wonder she felt neglected!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Not until she became svelte did Bing want her. Bonardi muddled some of the communication, or Meneghini did. Fees were a bone of contention. When Chicago hired her and she was a sensation, Bing capitulated and traveled to Chicago to sign her up. By the time she appeared at the Met, she was in decline.
> 
> I don't think the Metropolitan Opera treated her any worse than the other artists, they just had a different system than she was used to. She had to fit into the machine that was the Metropolitan, where scheduling was a major undertaking. The system at La Scala was the presention of one opera for a number of consecutive performances (with two or three days in between performances), while the Met presented five or six different operas per week and an artist could sing Norma one day, Traviata three days later, Norma again after two days, Lucia four days later. Almost no rehearsal, whereas at La Scala, she was singing mostly in new productions so there were ample rehearsals, and they built everything around her (except *Andrea Chenier*). No wonder she felt neglected!


Yes, by the time she arrived at the Met, she'd got used to a whole different way of working. Bing was so fixated on not giving her any more concessions than he gave any other singer that he never took into consideration the fact that she was practically blind on stage and adequate stage rehearsal was essential, expecially for an artist like Callas who didn't just stand and deliver.I must say, after reading his memoirs _5000 Nights At The Opera_ I didn't take to Bing at all.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes, by the time she arrived at the Met, she'd got used to a whole different way of working. Bing was so fixated on not giving her any more concessions than he gave any other singer that he never took into consideration the fact that she was practically blind on stage and adequate stage rehearsal was essential, expecially for an artist like Callas who didn't just stand and deliver.I must say, after reading his memoirs _5000 Nights At The Opera_ I didn't take to Bing at all.


I think he learned too late what a valuable artist she was and probably regretted he didn't do more for her while he could.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

So...what to do, what to do?
When I hated both and have to choose between a voice I simply dislike the sound of (Raisa) but whose tempo was much more appealing to my ear with more vigor and energy, OR:
a too slow tempo but with a voice I preferred to the first but who also was certainly anything but showing off what she really CAN do when given the right material -- and this just wasn't it for me.
Both had fine trills and Callas did excite with the chance-taking final high note.
With less than any enthusiasm and because I really cannot stand the sound of Raisa's voice, I guess my vote goes to Callas by default.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I unabashedly *love* the high note at the end! I got so used to it over the years that I miss it when it's not sung! _Pace_ those who object to it!


I like the high note per se. I would have liked for her to have sung this with the E in it when she was fat. Her E's from Armida were awesome. She still has it... but just. Forgive me, buddy.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Two amazing recordings. Callas is wonderful, this being one of my favorite of her recordings. There is no hint of the wobble or, with the exception of the last unfortunate high note, shrillness. That leaves us with Callas' considerable virtues, such as precision, agility, power, dynamics, and phrasing. Raisa is also awesome. Hers was a dramatic voice as well, and she was the first _Turandot_. Her tones are pure and focused like a laser, and her fioritura is every bit as accomplished as Callas'. She was taught by Barbara Marchisio, a very famous 19th century contralto who also taught Toti Dal Monte. She had a real bel canto teacher, just as Callas did. She had the profound admiration of singers like Alexander Kipnis and Rosa Ponselle.

I actually like the faster tempo in Raisa's version. Within that tempo, she certainly does vary things, and takes the _dolcissimo_ sections with much grace. I like her phrasing better than Callas' in the final section of the aria. The phrases seem more compact and better balanced, with the fioritura sounding like elaborations on a main line that continues throughout the section. She does that odd effect that you hear in recordings of that period where she bounces her trills, creating a kind of second pulsation. Kurz used to do that too sometimes.

So who to vote for? Well, I can see why Callas is running away with it. Her voice is certainly captured better by the recording, and her rendition is excellent. I'm going to vote for Raisa though, not just because I think she doesn't deserve to be shut out, but also because I simply really enjoy her rendition.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I like the high note per se. I would have liked for her to have sung this with the E in it when she was fat. Her E's from Armida were awesome. She still has it... but just. Forgive me, buddy.


The live recording of the complete opera from Florence was made in 1951. She does the high E though she splits the note for a fraction of a second. It's still pretty spectacular.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I like the high note per se. I would have liked for her to have sung this with the E in it when she was fat. Her E's from Armida were awesome. She still has it... but just. Forgive me, buddy.


I wish she had sung e everything with that voice, but here we are...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The live recording of the complete opera from Florence was made in 1951. She does the high E though she splits the note for a fraction of a second. It's still pretty spectacular.


That is more like it;-)


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Oh wow, these are amazing! Raisa's voice seemed more acrobatic with more satisfying trills, but I definitely enjoyed Callas's performance more. I just love how she varied the color of her voice throughout! Raisa seemed to stay relatively surface level with the excitement that could have been brought out of the piece.


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