# Frederick Delius



## JTech82

Frederick Delius was an English composer who forged a unique version of the Impressionist musical language of the early twentieth century. He was born in Bradford, England, in 1862, and died in Grez-sur-Loing, France, in 1934. He did not come from a musical family; rather, his father owned a wool company and hoped that his son would follow a career in business. Delius, however, wanted to study music, and though his father did not approve of music as a profession, he did not discourage music-making as a pastime; thus, Delius was allowed to study the violin and the piano. To his father's dismay, he also spent much of his youth sneaking away from school to attend concerts and opera performances. When he completed school, he went to work for his father in the family business. In 1884, he left England for Florida, where he worked on a plantation as an orange grower. While in Florida, he began studying music with Thomas Ward, a musician and teacher from Jacksonville. Delius proved to be a failure as an orange grower, and began supporting himself as a musician. In 1886, his father arranged for him to spend a year and a half studying music in Germany at the Leipzig Conservatory. Though Delius would later insist that he learned very little of importance during his stay in Leipzig, it was there that he met Grieg, with whom he forged a lifelong friendship. Grieg convinced Delius' father to allow the young man to become a composer, and Delius, with the support of his formerly reluctant father, soon moved to Paris and began living the life of an artist.

Once in Paris, Delius began composing in earnest, and towards the end of the nineteenth century had already completed two operas, Irmelin and The Magic Fountain. In the first decade of the twentieth century, Delius married the painter Jelka Rosen and produced a number of important works, including the opera A Village Romeo and Juliet, the large-scale choral works Appalachia and A Mass of Life (based on the writings of Nietzsche), a piano concerto, and a number of songs and chamber pieces. His music was well-received throughout Europe, and Delius was quite successful up until World War I, when he was forced to leave France for England. Despite his renown in continental Europe, Delius was virtually unknown in his native England, and his stay there was marred by financial difficulties. After the war, Delius returned to France, where the syphilis he had contracted in Florida gradually caused him to become paralyzed and blind. Ironically, as Delius became increasingly infirm, his fame began to spread. This was due in large part to the efforts of English composer Sir Thomas Beecham, who championed Delius' music and organized a Delius Festival in 1929. Though terribly ill, Delius nonetheless still wanted to compose, and in 1928 enlisted the services of English musician Eric Fenby, to whom he dictated music (Fenby would later write a book about Delius). Towards the end of his life, Delius was made Companion of Honor by King George V of England, and was awarded an honorary degree in music by Oxford University. Before his death, Delius was able to hear his music over the radio and on record, but these accomplishments paled before the terrible deterioration of his health, and he died in seclusion.

(Article taken from All Music Guide)

What do you guys think of this very underrated composer? He was an English impressionist that produced some very outstanding and singular works in his time. He was a very unique composer.


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## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> What do you guys think of this very underrated composer? He was an English impressionist that produced some very outstanding and singular works in his time. He was a very unique composer.


I agree about the uniqueness - he's often instantly recognisable, isn't he? And he's a composer that I've always felt I _should_ be drawn to, and yet somehow I've never been able to get him to work for me. I think this is primarily because I never quite know what to do with the 'impressionist' style - I have the same sort of restricted response to Debussy. While I'm listening, I don't seem to have any feel for where we're going, or why. I hasten to point out that I'm talking here about limitations in my own responses - and not making any judgement on the music itself.

I can't claim to an extensive knowledge of his work - I've tended to work on the assumption that if I struggle with pieces like _Brigg Fair_ and _First Cuckoo_, then there isn't much hope for me with the other stuff. That said, though, I do have some interesting historic recordings of the Harrison Sisters playing Delius: May Harrison playing the Violin Sonata no.1, with Arnold Bax on piano (how about _that_ for a combination!!?), and Beatrice Harrison playing the Cello Sonata with Harold Craxton on piano. I know they both loved Delius's stuff, and he wrote work specifically for them, I believe. But despite my own love and admiration for Beatrice Harrison, which encourages me to keep trying, I don't make any headway. I wish it were otherwise.


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## Lang

To me, it's a matter of structure. On the second-to-second level the music of Delius can be beautiful and arresting, but overall it never seems to work for me. This is why for me the smaller works are the most successful. The larger works don't work for me unless the music is forced into a particular form, as it is in the Mass of Life. That work does seem to be rewarding.


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## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> I agree about the uniqueness - he's often instantly recognisable, isn't he? And he's a composer that I've always felt I _should_ be drawn to, and yet somehow I've never been able to get him to work for me. I think this is primarily because I never quite know what to do with the 'impressionist' style - I have the same sort of restricted response to Debussy. While I'm listening, I don't seem to have any feel for where we're going, or why. I hasten to point out that I'm talking here about limitations in my own responses - and not making any judgement on the music itself.
> 
> I can't claim to an extensive knowledge of his work - I've tended to work on the assumption that if I struggle with pieces like _Brigg Fair_ and _First Cuckoo_, then there isn't much hope for me with the other stuff. That said, though, I do have some interesting historic recordings of the Harrison Sisters playing Delius: May Harrison playing the Violin Sonata no.1, with Arnold Bax on piano (how about _that_ for a combination!!?), and Beatrice Harrison playing the Cello Sonata with Harold Craxton on piano. I know they both loved Delius's stuff, and he wrote work specifically for them, I believe. But despite my own love and admiration for Beatrice Harrison, which encourages me to keep trying, I don't make any headway. I wish it were otherwise.


The "impressionist" style is hard to get into if you're not willing to develop an ear for it. It isn't straightforward like Shostakovich, Rachmaninov, or Elgar. At least with the impressionist movement we're still dealing with tonality, but take somebody like Ravel he started using scales in his pieces like Aeolian, Phrygian, Dorian, and Mixolydian. The way he used them was very different at that time, but of course, Ravel wasn't just an impressionist, he made some other very straightforward pieces. Debussy also did some very different things in his music by using pentatonic and whole tone scales. There is also a very raw and abstract feeling to Debussy that I find very refreshing.

Delius' music is merely an extension of what was going on with Debussy and Ravel, but he blended chromatic and pentatonic type of tonalities together and also experimented with different kinds of rhythms like those found in Africa. Since he was English, there was also some of that aesthetic to his music as well.

Delius, like Debussy, Ravel, and all other composers labeled in this style of composing, is not for everyone. But I do like much of his orchestral works, they are just so beautiful in their execution of ideas and the overall atmosphere of his pieces are refreshing, especially after listening to Shostakovich or Bruckner all day!

But of all my favorite impressionist, Ravel is still my favorite. Not because of the meticulous structure found in his pieces, which was a glaringly obvious contrast to Debussy's more rawer approach, but because the most beautiful melodies that are found in his music, he is simply one of my favorite composers of all time.


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## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> The "impressionist" style is hard to get into if you're not willing to develop an ear for it.


It not so much an unwillingness in my case - more a matter of knowing that an awful lot of concentrated listening is going to be needed if I'm to make any headway (with no guarantee of success, of course). To some extent I'm taking the lazy road: I'm finding, right now, Handel operas so unexpectedly beguiling and their enjoyment so relatively effortless, that I'm reluctant to embark on something that I know will be a trudge - initially, at least. I guess I'm waiting for the day when I hear a chunk of Delius and somehow, it clicks into place. I know it often happens that way for me - for instance, I wouldn't have given you tuppence for a Handel opera just a year ago. It's a matter of going with the flow.



> Delius, like Debussy, Ravel, and all other composers labeled in this style of composing, is not for everyone. But I do like much of his orchestral works, they are just so beautiful in their execution of ideas and the overall atmosphere of his pieces are refreshing, especially after listening to Shostakovich or Bruckner all day!


I have no difficulty at all believing this. The atmosphere created is often very effective and very lovely; my problem is that it loses my attention quite quickly (which of course is _my_ problem, not Delius's or Debussy's). Someone once said about William Morris's poetry that it's like wallpaper - there seems no reason why it should ever stop. That's the kind of feeling I get with these impressionists. I suspect it's something to do with a limitation in my ability to carry a tune. Unless the tune and its development are very clear (you were right to pick up on the straightforwardness of Elgar in that respect), I lose my way - and lose interest.

It's likely that there will come a day when suddenly I shall see (hear?) the light; then I'll come here enthusing about _First Cuckoo_, and you'll be able to smile benignly and say 'I told you so...'


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## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> It not so much an unwillingness in my case - more a matter of knowing that an awful lot of concentrated listening is going to be needed if I'm to make any headway (with no guarantee of success, of course). To some extent I'm taking the lazy road: I'm finding, right now, Handel operas so unexpectedly beguiling and their enjoyment so relatively effortless, that I'm reluctant to embark on something that I know will be a trudge - initially, at least. I guess I'm waiting for the day when I hear a chunk of Delius and somehow, it clicks into place. I know it often happens that way for me - for instance, I wouldn't have given you tuppence for a Handel opera just a year ago. It's a matter of going with the flow.
> 
> I have no difficulty at all believing this. The atmosphere created is often very effective and very lovely; my problem is that it loses my attention quite quickly (which of course is _my_ problem, not Delius's or Debussy's). Someone once said about William Morris's poetry that it's like wallpaper - there seems no reason why it should ever stop. That's the kind of feeling I get with these impressionists. I suspect it's something to do with a limitation in my ability to carry a tune. Unless the tune and its development are very clear (you were right to pick up on the straightforwardness of Elgar in that respect), I lose my way - and lose interest.
> 
> It's likely that there will come a day when suddenly I shall see (hear?) the light; then I'll come here enthusing about _First Cuckoo_, and you'll be able to smile benignly and say 'I told you so...'


Well I think it's good to know that you're making an effort to listen and not just dismiss him altogether for some reason that has nothing to do with the music.

I'm a very open listener, but there are some things that I don't like and have made a strong effort in trying to understand. Some of them are Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Hindemith, among others. I find their work to be too intellectual and not emotional enough for me.

But my tastes vary from Saint-Saens, Liszt, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Sibelius, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Ravel, Debussy, Mahler, Bruckner, Barber, Bax, Dvorak, Langgaard, Borodin, Tchaikovsky, among others are my favorite composers.

It's all a matter of tastes and personal preferences and what you get out of the music that dictates whether you'll like it or not.


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## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> Well I think it's good to know that you're making an effort to listen and not just dismiss him altogether for some reason that has nothing to do with the music.


I'm aware that every negative decision I make about any music (or any art) can only be provisional. I spent too much of my time, years ago, declaring an aversion for this or that, only to discover, much later, that aversion had turned to admiration - even passion. Sometimes it's not the trying that's the problem - it's the _timing_. Five years ago I'd have been quite unable to find emotion in Handel, no matter how hard I tried. Yet here and now, his music frequently has me on the edge of tears, and all that's happened is the passage of time: more experience of life? physiological changes? Who knows?

Meanwhile, I have my secret weapon up my sleeve: my Beatrice Harrison CD. If _anyone_ can persuade me to enjoy Delius, Beatrice and her cello can do it.


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## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> I'm aware that every negative decision I make about any music (or any art) can only be provisional. I spent too much of my time, years ago, declaring an aversion for this or that, only to discover, much later, that aversion had turned to admiration - even passion. Sometimes it's not the trying that's the problem - it's the _timing_. Five years ago I'd have been quite unable to find emotion in Handel, no matter how hard I tried. Yet here and now, his music frequently has me on the edge of tears, and all that's happened is the passage of time: more experience of life? physiological changes? Who knows?
> 
> Meanwhile, I have my secret weapon up my sleeve: my Beatrice Harrison CD. If _anyone_ can persuade me to enjoy Delius, Beatrice and her cello can do it.


You know, Elgarian, you ask some very good questions. I guess as we get older our tastes do change somewhat, but I've always been into the Romantic period. This music to me has the most emotion or at least in my opinion it does.

I used to not enjoy Mozart that much, but as I got older I'm able to appreciate him more and more, especially his later works like his symphonies.


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## Bach

I tell you who you'd love, JTech - that's Herbert Howells - if you're interested, I shall openly recommend his requiem. 

Takes that beautiful mystic English music that you seem to love so much to the next level of harmonic interest and development. For once I'm not being ironic.


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## JTech82

Bach said:


> I tell you who you'd love, JTech - that's Herbert Howells - if you're interested, I shall openly recommend his requiem.
> 
> Takes that beautiful mystic English music that you seem to love so much to the next level of harmonic interest and development. For once I'm not being ironic.


Thanks Bach. You know I've read a lot about Howells and heard a lot of stuff about him. I'll definitely check him out.

Yeah, you're not being ironic, are you feeling okay?


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## Bach

I must take a lie down. My unrelenting Britishness is cocking up


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## JTech82

Bach said:


> I must take a lie down. My unrelenting Britishness is cocking up


Yeah go lie down. You're not sounding like yourself.

I bet you and I would be friends in real life, especially since you're a composer. I'm a composer too, but I always considered myself an improviser first and foremost.

Perhaps one day I will be improvising a solo to one of your pieces? Who knows.


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## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> I guess as we get older our tastes do change somewhat, but I've always been into the Romantic period.


So was I, for a very long time: weaned on Elgar, RVW, Sibelius; grew into Wagner and Puccini; later Massenet and his pals. So for a long time I thought I was a Late Romantic through and through. Yet these days, you're more likely to find me sighing with longing over Couperin, Charpentier, Rameau, Mondonville, or Handel - so I was completely wrong about myself. Or at least, only partly right.

I really don't want to admit it, and I never thought it would ever happen, but these days I can find Wagner a bit 'too much': sledge-hammer emotion, bullying me into acceptance of it, rather than seducing me into it. Fortunately, my love of Elgar remains unaltered.



> This music to me has the most emotion or at least in my opinion it does.


I suppose that's part of the character of this big, complicated, and often hard-to-define thing called 'Romanticism'. It's no less true of painting than of music. Turner's 'Romantic' _Fighting Temeraire_ seems to flood its canvas with emotion, while Watteau's 'Baroque' _Fêtes Venitiennes_ may seem fanciful, frothy, artificial and contrived. But it isn't. It just doesn't wear its heart on its sleeve. The delicate subtlety of its formal relationships is doing its work quietly, all the time one is looking at it attentively, and the tears can come without warning or explanation, and without understanding from where they come.

And _that_ is why one day I feel sure that Delius will get through: when I'm ready, even though I may not know it.


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## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> So was I, for a very long time: weaned on Elgar, RVW, Sibelius; grew into Wagner and Puccini; later Massenet and his pals. So for a long time I thought I was a Late Romantic through and through. Yet these days, you're more likely to find me sighing with longing over Couperin, Charpentier, Rameau, Mondonville, or Handel - so I was completely wrong about myself. Or at least, only partly right.
> 
> I really don't want to admit it, and I never thought it would ever happen, but these days I can find Wagner a bit 'too much': sledge-hammer emotion, bullying me into acceptance of it, rather than seducing me into it. Fortunately, my love of Elgar remains unaltered.
> 
> I suppose that's part of the character of this big, complicated, and often hard-to-define thing called 'Romanticism'. It's no less true of painting than of music. Turner's 'Romantic' _Fighting Temeraire_ seems to flood its canvas with emotion, while Watteau's 'Baroque' _Fêtes Venitiennes_ may seem fanciful, frothy, artificial and contrived. But it isn't. It just doesn't wear its heart on its sleeve. The delicate subtlety of its formal relationships is doing its work quietly, all the time one is looking at it attentively, and the tears can come without warning or explanation, and without understanding from where they come.
> 
> And _that_ is why one day I feel sure that Delius will get through: when I'm ready, even though I may not know it.


I think the best music touches us regardless whether it's baroque, classicism, romantic, or 20th century.

If you find enjoyment in it and can relate to it in some way, it's only going to touch your heart eventually.

I completely wrote RVW off when I first heard him. I heard "Five Variants on Dives And Lazarus" and thought to myself "That's pretty..." but that was as far as it went, but as time went on, my appreciation and love for his music really grew, especially when I heard his "Concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra." That piece really just blew me away and still does. "Job" is also another piece that's just so beautiful to me. RVW's symphonies are also outstanding. The man has done some great work.

Elgar, on the other hand, I loved immediately. It didn't take much convincing to enjoy his music.


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## JTech82

Resurrecting this thread....

My question is simple: why do you think people don't know much about Delius? Do you feel his music is an acquired taste? Is there something about his music that you just can't connect with?

I loved Delius when I first heard him mainly because he's coming very much from that Impressionist style as Debussy and Ravel, but to my ears he's doing his completely own thing with it. He definitely had an ear for unique harmonies.

It's a shame that he's not discussed more around here, but that can be said about many composers. Hardly nobody around here talks about Paul Dukas or Karol Szymanowski and that's a unfortunate. There are other composers besides the ones that all of us knows.

Listening to three different versions of say Delius' "In A Summer Garden" by Hickox, Barbirolli, and Mackerras is an interesting experience because I know this piece so well and like all interpretations some conductors accent or feel strongly about a certain measure that the other conductor doesn't and so forth.

That's the great thing about this music. It's open for different interpretations.


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## Sid James

I have only heard Delius' _*Two Aquarelles *_for string orchestra. They are, as had been stated above, quite impressionistic and full of light. However, they are not fully Delius, as he originally wrote them for choir and then had a colleague make this string arrangement. The work really stands out on the Naxos disc of English string music because, unlike the other composers on it (Britten, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Warlock) it doesn't seem to be heavily based on folk idioms or non-impressionist influences (eg. modernism like the Britten & Warlock).

Of what I've read about him here, Delius was (like his friend Grieg, to a degree) more comfortable with composing shorter, more compact pieces rather than writing in the larger symphonic forms. I think he also had this in common with Ketelbey, who was though a much lighter composer and even less willing to venture into the bigger genres. As the article says above, he did produce some larger scale works, but it for his smaller scale works that he is better known.

Very sad how he ended his days (syphilis/blindness). I remember seeing a print of a drawing of him by Augustus John in his final years. It captured his vulnerability well...


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## JTech82

I would say the work that demonstrates Delius very well is [_B]In A Summer Garden[/B]_, _*North Country Sketches*_, and [_B]Florida Suite[/B]_.

I find they blend that Impressionistic style with more of his own personal experiences. Yes, I do agree that he seemed more comfortable composing more small pieces or shall I say symphonic poems, but like Ravel and Debussy, he was a master of color.

If you listen to him with an open ear and heart, than his music completely enraptures you with it's elegance and beauty.

He did do some large scale works like his _*Requiem*_ and _*Mass For Life*_, but they don't quite live up to his symphonic pieces.

It is very sad what happened to him. He spent the last six or seven years of his life completely blind and paralyzed. He had a man stay with him the last years of his life who wrote his compositions for him. It's really a shame.


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## Lisztfreak

JTech82 said:


> I find they blend that Impressionistic style with more of his own personal experiences. Yes, I do agree that he seemed more comfortable composing more small pieces or shall I say symphonic poems, but like Ravel and Debussy, he was a master of color.


_The_ Master of Colour, even. I always have a feeling while listening to his music that every single note and chord is a differently coloured ray of light, or a flower - and that these also exude different fragrances. Getting synesthetico-poetic here... but that's what I mean.


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## JTech82

Lisztfreak said:


> _The_ Master of Colour, even. I always have a feeling while listening to his music that every single note and chord is a differently coloured ray of light, or a flower - and that these also exude different fragrances. Getting synesthetico-poetic here... but that's what I mean.


Yes, like Debussy and Ravel, Delius was a master of color. He was also very advanced in his approach to harmony and melody.

I've been listening to the Richard Hickox and the Bournemouth Symphony play Delius and it's just so great.

What's so great about Delius is on the surface it's really beautiful music, but with a deeper listening will reveal his vulnerability, a deep despair, and even sadness.

What is sad is when we think of his life and the circumstances he composed music under. All of the suffering he endured, but the music somehow prevails over that pain. It's unbelievable really.


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## Lisztfreak

JTech82 said:


> What's so great about Delius is on the surface it's really beautiful music, but with a deeper listening will reveal his vulnerability, a deep despair, and even sadness.
> 
> What is sad is when we think of his life and the circumstances he composed music under. All of the suffering he endured, but the music somehow prevails over that pain. It's unbelievable really.


It must have been because of his Nietzscheanism. He was a nasty fellow in that respect, as was his wife, I think they met exactly because of their mutual interest in Nietzsche. Herr Friedrich had some fine ideas, but it's not a particularly merry life-philosophy to live by, is it?


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## JTech82

Lisztfreak said:


> It must have been because of his Nietzscheanism. He was a nasty fellow in that respect, as was his wife, I think they met exactly because of their mutual interest in Nietzsche. Herr Friedrich had some fine ideas, but it's not a particularly merry life-philosophy to live by, is it?


No, it's a shame that Delius was this way. I personally feel that nobody should live by another person's philosophies. If an idea sounds good and you're inspired by it, then great adopt that into your way of thinking, but I don't think a "system" of philosophy is worthy enough to live by. People have to develop their own thoughts independently.


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## Lisztfreak

Agreed. But beware of Popes and Ayatollahs - they curse people for such religious and philosophic separatism!


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## Mirror Image

Delius' religious and philosophical beliefs aside, he was a remarkable composer. What is truly astonishing to me is why isn't he listened to more? I mean he wrote some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard, but yet he gets very little recognition, especially nowadays.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I have only heard Delius' _*Two Aquarelles *_for string orchestra. They are, as had been stated above, quite impressionistic and full of light. However, they are not fully Delius, as he originally wrote them for choir and then had a colleague make this string arrangement. The work really stands out on the Naxos disc of English string music because, unlike the other composers on it (Britten, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Warlock) it doesn't seem to be heavily based on folk idioms or non-impressionist influences (eg. modernism like the Britten & Warlock).


Delius actually borrowed ideas from and absorbed a lot of Black spiritual music while he lived in Florida. He blended African rhythms, melodies, and harmonies with more late-Romantic influences and impressionism and formed a very singular style.

I think the first step to understanding this genius' music is understanding his environment in which he wrote his music around and what music influenced him to start composing in the first place. He was a big Wagner fan, he was friends with Grieg, who ended up being an influence on him and who also gave him that push he needed to pursue composing, the Black music of America during the final years of the 1800s, and finally the music he heard when he finally settled in Paris, France. All of these factors played a role in his development as a composer.


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## Lisztfreak

What's also important with Delius is not to expect a lot of fortissimo playing, clear-cut rhythms and blaring fanfares. I think that's what many people consider soft or boring in his music, the absence of pomp and overt drama. Some say it lacks strength, because it's more flowing and blooming than pounding and sharp. I couldn't disagree more that those are weaknesses, and I think it's the originality, colour, rafinement and profound impact that are its prinicipal qualities. And who could say that Koanga lacks overt drama?


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## Mirror Image

Lisztfreak said:


> What's also important with Delius is not to expect a lot of fortissimo playing, clear-cut rhythms and blaring fanfares. I think that's what many people consider soft or boring in his music, the absence of pomp and overt drama. Some say it lacks strength, because it's more flowing and blooming than pounding and sharp. I couldn't disagree more that those are weaknesses, and I think it's the originality, colour, rafinement and profound impact that are its prinicipal qualities. And who could say that Koanga lacks overt drama?


Absolutely, Lisztfreak. That's very true. He's kind of frowned upon because he didn't go for those huge, suspenseful type of climaxes and finales, but I think where he may lack, he makes up for with gorgeous beauty. I think people should really listen more closely to how everything works in his compositions. The melodies are there right in front of you, but they have a certain sadness to them. The harmonies he employed are also very interesting. I honestly feel that it's not that a conductor has trouble appreciating his music, it's that it may be tough to find the right orchestra who are equally enthusiastic.


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## Frasier

JTech82 said:


> It is very sad what happened to him. He spent the last six or seven years of his life completely blind and paralyzed. He had a man stay with him the last years of his life who wrote his compositions for him. It's really a shame.


Although critically they never won many fans, two works from this late period always hold me spellbound: Cynara and Song of Summer.

I can only agree with JTech82's enthusiams on this thread. Delius' "major works" period from about 1899 (of the Nocturne, Paris) until about 1920 yielded some superb music: The Mass of Life, North Country Sketches, the Violin Concerto, Brigg Fair (which is perhaps the closest he touched bases with Debussy), Song of the High Hills....

His only problem was having no musical nationality - born in the UK, travelled through Florida, Germany, Norway, France. The only real impression he made was in the UK and that was probably thanks to Beecham.


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## Mirror Image

Frasier said:


> Although critically they never won many fans, two works from this late period always hold me spellbound: Cynara and Song of Summer.
> 
> I can only agree with JTech82's enthusiams on this thread. Delius' "major works" period from about 1899 (of the Nocturne, Paris) until about 1920 yielded some superb music: The Mass of Life, North Country Sketches, the Violin Concerto, Brigg Fair (which is perhaps the closest he touched bases with Debussy), Song of the High Hills....
> 
> His only problem was having no musical nationality - born in the UK, travelled through Florida, Germany, Norway, France. The only real impression he made was in the UK and that was probably thanks to Beecham.


I'll always view his nationality to be English, although his parents were German and the fact that he did travel around. His music had a very English sound, but he blended that distinct sound with other influences. He was the foremost English impressionist.


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## Mirror Image

I was just listening to "Florida Suite" and "North Country Sketches" these are gorgeous pieces that I think newcomers to Delius' music would enjoy.

Has anyone heard these pieces? What are your impressions (no pun intended ) of them?


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## Mirror Image

I watched a fascinating documentary about Delius' music the other day and I actually got to see his music performed in a live setting in this film. It's quite interesting to witness this.


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## Mirror Image

Delius' music has become very important to me these past few months. I have realized that the more I listen to him, the more I understand him a lot better. He was kind of an enigmatic person in some regards, because his style wasn't really rooted in the Western Classical tradition, but rather an amalgamation of a lot of different kinds of music such as music he heard while he was working on an orange plantation in Florida. It was there he heard Black church music and spirituals. It was also in Florida where he received composition training. When he returned to Europe, he settled in Paris and became a permanent resident. This is where some of his best writing came about: "In A Summer Garden," "North Country Sketches," etc.

It's interesting that his music is rarely talked about on this forum as he was an important part of classical music's rich history. Nobody sounded like Delius and his music is certainly an acquired taste, but once you close off any pre-conceived notions of his style of composition, which is very impressionistic, you may have, then you can understand him better.


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## Sid James

JTech82 said:


> My question is simple: why do you think people don't know much about Delius? Do you feel his music is an acquired taste? Is there something about his music that you just can't connect with?


I just borrowed & listened to a Naxos Delius cd from the library. It has _The Walk to the Paradise Garden, On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring_, and _American Rhapsody_, among others.

I can hear the influence of Wagner, Debussy & Ravel, but Delius obviously had his own individual style. He was a good orchestrator, & I especially like his use of woodwinds when they are playing with the strings. But I have to say that I agree with some of Elgarian's comments above. The music, for me, suffers from 'sameness,' there seems little to distinguish the pieces from eachother. They all seem to tell the same story, if you wish. I have a similar problem with Takemitsu. It sounds like it is background music to a film, although I realise that these pieces were written before the advent of cinema & the techniques have probably been copied by film composers since then.



JTech82 said:


> What's so great about Delius is on the surface it's really beautiful music, but with a deeper listening will reveal his vulnerability, a deep despair, and even sadness.





Mirror Image said:


> I think people should really listen more closely to how everything works in his compositions. The melodies are there right in front of you, but they have a certain sadness to them.


These comments give me some hope that, upon repeated listenings, I will hear what you are hearing. How do you hear sadness & despair in Delius' pieces?



Mirror Image said:


> I was just listening to "Florida Suite" and "North Country Sketches" these are gorgeous pieces that I think newcomers to Delius' music would enjoy.


I'll have to check these works out. I also like concertos very much, so I am interested in Delius' contributions to that genre. Any impressions?


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I just borrowed & listened to a Naxos Delius cd from the library. It has _The Walk to the Paradise Garden, On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring_, and _American Rhapsody_, among others.
> 
> I can hear the influence of Wagner, Debussy & Ravel, but Delius obviously had his own individual style. He was a good orchestrator, & I especially like his use of woodwinds when they are playing with the strings. But I have to say that I agree with some of Elgarian's comments above. The music, for me, suffers from 'sameness,' there seems little to distinguish the pieces from eachother. They all seem to tell the same story, if you wish. I have a similar problem with Takemitsu. It sounds like it is background music to a film, although I realise that these pieces were written before the advent of cinema & the techniques have probably been copied by film composers since then.
> 
> These comments give me some hope that, upon repeated listenings, I will hear what you are hearing. How do you hear sadness & despair in Delius' pieces?
> 
> I'll have to check these works out. I also like concertos very much, so I am interested in Delius' contributions to that genre. Any impressions?


Ravel or Debussy wasn't an influence on Delius as far as I know, but I'm sure he had heard these composers music at some point, especially living in Paris. Wagner, Grieg, and Black church music he heard when he worked on an orange plantation while in Florida, was really the catalyst that got him going. He, as you may know, was good friends with Grieg, which he met when he returned from America to study in Leipzig.

His music is very unique and Wikipedia describes it as the following:

_Delius's musical style is one of the most unusual in Western musical history. Characterized by a curious mixture of pentatonic figures and chromaticism, although still largely tonal, it reflects a move from the textbook post-romanticism of the years following the death of Richard Wagner (1883) to a style that was unique to Delius, blending Impressionism with the slightly older post-romanticism and northern European and African-American folk idioms. His use of luscious harmonies - mainly slow moving, and constantly evolving melody, with the frequent use of leitmotifs - is what prompted Sir Thomas Beecham to describe him as "the last great apostle of romantic beauty in music." His harmony and melody were influenced greatly by African-American music of the time, using blues harmony and melodic characteristics that would become distinctly jazz and blues 20 years later.

His best-known works include the brief orchestral piece On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring; Brigg Fair ('An English Rhapsody'); In A Summer Garden; North Country Sketches; A Mass of Life to Friedrich Nietzsche's Also Sprach Zarathustra; Florida Suite; Sea Drift, a setting of text by Walt Whitman, for baritone, chorus and orchestra; A Late Lark, setting of text by William Ernest Henley; Songs of Farewell, another setting of Whitman texts, for chorus and orchestra; Cynara and Songs of Sunset, both settings of texts by Ernest Dowson; Koanga, which as an opera with a black principal character antedates George Gershwin's Porgy and Bess by four decades and is roughly contemporaneous with Scott Joplin's Treemonisha; an atheist Requiem; four concertos: a violin concerto, a cello concerto, a double concerto for violin and cello, and a piano concerto (also somewhat Gershwinesque); the colourful, picturesque tone poem Paris: Song of a Great City; and the beautifully exuberant symphonic composition Life's Dance. Orchestral excerpts from his operas, for example La Calinda from Koanga - which originated in the Florida Suite - and The Walk to the Paradise Garden from A Village Romeo and Juliet, are also played and recorded reasonably often. There are a number of chamber works (three mature violin sonatas, a cello sonata and a string quartet).
_

You asked me where do I get the sadness and despair in Delius' pieces? I soon found this element in his music, which is quite prevalent in many of his compositions, to be beneath the surface of these works, especially in "In A Summer Garden," "North Country Sketches," and "Florida Suite." This feeling can also be found in his "Mass For Life" and his "Requiem." His concertos also have a certain degree of sadness.

Where I get this from is simple: reading about his life. The suffering he must have went through at many stages of life (he had syphilis as you probably know), which contributes to this feeling of emptiness. I also think there's something a lot deeper than this that happened to him perhaps while he lived in Florida. It's hard to tell really, but I can just feel that for Delius his music wasn't all "rose gardens and butterflies" if you know what I mean.

The more you read about the man, the more you come to the realization that composing was the only way he could keep his sanity as is the case with many composers. There's just something disturbing going on in Delius' music that warrants deeper listening.

About it suffering from sameness, I happily disagree. You never heard his "Dance Rhapsodies" or "Brigg Fair." Delius' music is slower, yes, than a lot of music, but don't be fooled by this, each listening will reveal another layer of truth.


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## Mirror Image

Here is the entire video of "A Portrait of Frederick Delius." Please excuse the bad transfer, I'm not sure who uploaded this, but at least you can get a better idea about his music:


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## Sid James

I re-listened to some of the Naxos Delius disc, and yeah, his music does repay you somewhat with reppeated listenings.

I could clearly hear the Negro spiritual influence in _American Rhapsody_. Also, the outburst by the brass at the end playing _Yankee Doodle Dandy_ reminded me very much of Ives. The way Delius treated the spiritual reminded me of Gershwin, and his orchestration of Copland. Undoubtedly, his music must have been known by these later composers.

I also heard some of the other pieces. Yes, there is a certain melancholy in the music, but to me it's kind of under the surface. His music seems to be almost ephemeral, here one minute but gone the next. There's a sense of the transcience of human life, and even frailty, but I don't want to get too arty farty here...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I re-listened to some of the Naxos Delius disc, and yeah, his music does repay you somewhat with reppeated listenings.
> 
> I could clearly hear the Negro spiritual influence in _American Rhapsody_. Also, the outburst by the brass at the end playing _Yankee Doodle Dandy_ reminded me very much of Ives. The way Delius treated the spiritual reminded me of Gershwin, and his orchestration of Copland. Undoubtedly, his music must have been known by these later composers.
> 
> I also heard some of the other pieces. Yes, there is a certain melancholy in the music, but to me it's kind of under the surface. His music seems to be almost ephemeral, here one minute but gone the next. There's a sense of the transcience of human life, and even frailty, but I don't want to get too arty farty here...


Yes, it's true that Delius does repay the listener in a big way. What's amazing about Delius is his music predates so much music and he's given very little credit, but he was a very innovative composer. It's like I have told you he was using jazz harmonies before jazz was even established as a musical form.

I think people are generally put off by his music, because of the unusual synthesis he created, which blended those desperate influences I mentioned in this thread. His music is without question an acquired taste music like Debussy or Janacek are acquired tastes, but I think there is so much to learn from what he composed.


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## Mirror Image

Frasier said:


> His only problem was having no musical nationality - born in the UK, travelled through Florida, Germany, Norway, France. The only real impression he made was in the UK and that was probably thanks to Beecham.


I don't really see this as a "problem" as you put it, but it certainly makes his music all the more enigmatic.

I have several books about classical history that consider Delius an English composer. Perhaps he didn't have a strong English nationality like Elgar or Walton, but he was raised in England to German parents.

I just look at Delius as this nomad. He spent most of his life in France, so something could be said of this as well.

Whatever the case may be, he's still highly underrated and was a truly innovative composer during his time.


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## Mirror Image

I think it's funny that so many people are actually scared of admitting they like Delius like it's some kind of sin. Do we live in an age where beauty is no longer preferrable? I mean I enjoy Bartok and Stravinsky as much as the next person, but their sound worlds are a little too much for me after a while. I think as I get older, I'm wanting more out of music than just a "musical slugfest of dissonances."

Delius' life was anything but a picnic, but what amazes me is he was able to counter-balance that ugliness in his own life through remarkably beautiful music. I continue to be amazed by each listening at what an astonishing and inventive composer he truly was.

I have criticized a lot of composer's music on this forum, but I guess it's what we truly don't understand that we criticize or dismiss. From this point forward, I'll make it a point to not say anything terrible about another composer's music unless I've given it a chance and have spent a great deal of time with it (are you reading this Andre?).


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## Sid James

I've just heard Delius' _Piano Concerto _on the radio. My first impression is that it's quite a poetic concerto, a bit like Schumann's. There's plenty of lyricism in this work, & I like how he lets the melodies just flow freely. It doesn't sound like he was too concerned with adhering to the rules of the sonata form or anything like that. I also thought that, under the surface, there was quite alot of darkness there. It would be quite easy to dismiss this work as simply a light one, but I think that would just show that one is listening superficially. The way the piano seemed to do it's own thing, quite independent of the orchestra on many occassions, reminded me of a person wandering alone in a vast landscape (whether it is hospitable or not, who knows?). Anyway, I think this work appeals to me more than the other ones by Delius I have heard, and I wouldn't mind buying it at some stage...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I've just heard Delius' _Piano Concerto _on the radio. My first impression is that it's quite a poetic concerto, a bit like Schumann's. There's plenty of lyricism in this work, & I like how he lets the melodies just flow freely. It doesn't sound like he was too concerned with adhering to the rules of the sonata form or anything like that. I also thought that, under the surface, there was quite alot of darkness there. It would be quite easy to dismiss this work as simply a light one, but I think that would just show that one is listening superficially. The way the piano seemed to do it's own thing, quite independent of the orchestra on many occassions, reminded me of a person wandering alone in a vast landscape (whether it is hospitable or not, who knows?). Anyway, I think this work appeals to me more than the other ones by Delius I have heard, and I wouldn't mind buying it at some stage...


Yes, it's a great piece. You should hear his Violin and Cello Concertos next. Interesting thing I read somewhere that mentioned Delius not being satisfied with the Piano Concerto. I think it is a an interesting piece and a piece that shows great lyricism and individuality.

Having judged from what you've listened to so far Andre, you must check out his large scale choral work "A Mass Of Life." Truly one of the great choral works of the 20th Century. Delius, like Finzi and Britten, had an affinity for the human voice and many of his best works are choral. Also checkout "Songs of Farewell." Another outstanding piece of music.

Good to hear you've heard something that appeals to you. Delius is definitely an acquired taste. Most people think just because somebody wrote tonal music they're going to be accessible. This couldn't further from the truth. Delius' style is very unique and entirely his own I think.


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## Sid James

Yeah, I'm also beginning to enjoy choral, so that's a good recommendation. I also like solo piano - did Delius compose anything for that instrument?


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## Mirror Image

Yes, he wrote a little bit for piano and harpsichord too (got this from Wikipedia):

Pensées Mélodieuses (no. 2, 1885)
Two Pieces for Piano (1889–90)
Dance for Cembalo (1919)
Five Pieces for Piano (1922–23)
Three Preludes for Piano (1923)
Zum Carnival
Badinage
Presto leggiero

I'm not interested in solo piano, so I'm sure how good these compositions are.


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## Sid James

Ok well thanks for the info. Doesn't look like he specialised in solo piano, does it? But I can't think of any C20th English composer who did, really. Maybe they all left it to the guys on the continent, who they thought could do it all better?


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Ok well thanks for the info. Doesn't look like he specialised in solo piano, does it? But I can't think of any C20th English composer who did, really. Maybe they all left it to the guys on the continent, who they thought could do it all better?


Well, Howells and Bax wrote a ton of piano music. Check them out.


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## Sid James

Ok that's interesting - thanks.


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## Evoludo

Delius is one of my favourite composers. His music definitely has a unique style, which I'm sure is a result of his peripatetic life. I would hesitate to call him an English composer; he was merely born in England (I was born in Germany but in no way would I consider myself German), and spent much of his life in other countries. I think I remember reading that he had a negative view of England and didn't like to be associated with it (please forgive my memory, his actual sentiments could have been better or worse). I would class him, uniquely, as an undefinable amalgamation of countries, a "citizen of the world".

Delius composed some of the most beautiful and moving music I have ever heard; of particular note are the Double Concerto for Violin and Cello (nonpareil sublimity, the zenith of opulence), and the lieder (I feel his highly poetic style of music is particularly suited to the song form, especially when combined with the lyricism of the french language), notably "La Lune Blanche". I also highly admire his Cello Concerto.

I agree with Lisztfreak that Delius also manages to illustrate a rich array of hues in his works; each note has a weight to it that is both decadently sweet and achingly melancholic. Perhaps this duality is a reflection of two elements of his life - the many whores of Paris, and the incapacitating disease which contracted from them.


Sadly some of his rarer works are very difficult to find, or haven't even been recorded within the last 50-60 years. One thing that I would like very much is to have a complete collection of his entire musical output.


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## audiophilia

Love Delius. Do not love his amanuensis!

Brigg Fair is a favourite.


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## Vaneyes

For *Delius *admirers, a link to information for an upcoming weekend symposium in London. Reasonably-priced, if I may say so.

http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_news.php?id=2143


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## Vaneyes

Film review: _'Delius: Composer, Lover, Enigma'._

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...at-british-musical-myth-was-born-7778714.html

Though it's common thought that Delius succumbed to syphilis, a Delius Society journal article from 1988 puts forward some contrary opinion. (pdf link).

http://www.delius.org.uk/images/journals/pdfs/journal98.pdf

Re the film review, Wikipedia suggests it was Delius' own wish to be buried in England, not Beecham's.

Re syphilis, I didn't notice anything via Wikipedia, to refute common opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Delius


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## Vaneyes

An extensive discography from The Delius Society/Stephen Lloyd.

http://www.delius.org.uk/discography/discography.htm


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## Neo Romanza

Just wanted to drop by and say that Delius is one of my absolute favorite composers. I've been struggling a bit with accepting this because there are so many that seem to have a pure hatred for his music, so I have had a very limited experience with others who actually enjoy his music, but those I've met that love his music are passionate about it, which is good for me. I need someone to talk to about Delius! 

Of the recent recordings I've been enjoying have been Bo Holten's series on the Danacord label. Exquisite! Pick these up if you haven't already. They're quite pricey but worth every penny. Holten has the best _Songs of Sunset_ on record. His _Song of the High Hills_ and _North Country Sketches_ are also incredibly fine. _Eventyr_, though the only competition really is Vernon Handley, fares much better in Holten's hands. Not to discount Handley, but Holten brings a much needed clarity to this complex work.

Anyway, hope to enjoy some discussions with some other Delians here.


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## MagneticGhost

I've recently re-discovered Delius.
When I was young I found his music dull in the extreme. With maturity has come a new appreciation for it's beauty and subtleties. 
Song of the High Hills is probably my favourite work of his. I've always had a soft spot for wordless Choirs ever since hearing VW's Sinfonia Antartica. 
I haven't at this stage explored different interpretations. I've got the one box set "150th Anniversary edition" and that does me just fine at the moment.


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## Neo Romanza

MagneticGhost said:


> I've recently re-discovered Delius.
> When I was young I found his music dull in the extreme. With maturity has come a new appreciation for it's beauty and subtleties.
> Song of the High Hills is probably my favourite work of his. I've always had a soft spot for wordless Choirs ever since hearing VW's Sinfonia Antartica.
> I haven't at this stage explored different interpretations. I've got the one box set "150th Anniversary edition" and that does me just fine at the moment.


I'll say I loved Delius' music on first hearing. The music hit my ear softly as a lot of his music does and I was truly mesmerized by what I heard. The work in question was the intermezzo _The Walk to the Paradise Garden_. I believe it was the Barbirolli performance that I heard. Anyway, I've been a fan from the beginning.

There never was anything dull about his music to me because the music is clearly trying to express something _different_. Delius doesn't pound you over the head with motor rhythms and shrieking glissandos. He has always composed beautiful music that reveals little pieces of himself along the way. His early style was heavily influenced by Wagner and Grieg, but his maturity (works past 1900) reveal a man consumed with sadness and the feeling of longing seems to permeate so much of his later music.

That EMI 150th Anniversary set is fantastic. Really a treasure trove of great performances. I do have a few problems with some of the performances and since you mentioned _Song of the High Hills_, Groves' performance is one of the worst on record IMHO. Definitely give Eric Fenby's, Charles Mackerras', and Bo Holten's performances a listen. There's also a newer recording with Andrew Davis that's quite good. You never can have too many interpretations of Delius' music because every conductor brings something different to the table.


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## Neo Romanza

So let's recap some of Delius' innovations in music:

1. Used the first wordless chorus --- (1897's _Koanga_ which predates Debussy's _Nocturnes_ by two years)
2. Wrote the first African-American opera, Koanga (1887 -- predates Gershwin's _Porgy & Bess_ by thirty something years)
3. Used blues and Negro spiritual music in a classical context (_Florida Suite_, 1887) for the first time, which again predates Gershwin
4. Used American folksongs (_Yankie Doodle_) and other marching band tunes and collided these together creating an unheard kind of dissonance which predated Charles Ives (_American Rhapsody_ 1896 later reworked as _Appalachia_)

The reason why none of these innovations have been acknowledged by scholars and critics is because of politics, which, unfortunately, still exist in classical music.


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## MagneticGhost

Neo Romanza said:


> So let's recap some of Delius' innovations in music:
> 
> 1. Used the first wordless chorus --- (1897's _Koanga_ which predates Debussy's _Nocturnes_ by two years)


Wow!! I'm actually amazed. Not that it was Delius but that it took till 1897. Never really thought about it.
I just know I love wordless choirs


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## MagneticGhost

Neo Romanza said:


> 3. Used blues and Negro spiritual music in a classical context (_Florida Suite_, 1887) for the first time, which again predates Gershwin


What about Dvorak and Coleridge Taylor. They made extensive use of these too. Gershwin was a bit of a johnny come lately on that front. But was Delius the prime innovator here?


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## Neo Romanza

MagneticGhost said:


> Wow!! I'm actually amazed. Not that it was Delius but that it took till 1897. Never really thought about it.
> I just know I love wordless choirs


As far as I know Delius was the first one to use it but whether it has been used prior to the 1890s remains a mystery. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I am could shed some light on this?


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## MagneticGhost

Neo Romanza said:


> As far as I know Delius was the first one to use it but whether it has been used prior to the 1890s remains a mystery. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I am could shed some light on this?


I did a little google work.. Apparently L'Arlésienne (Bizet) has one or two wordless choruses in Act 2. I've never heard it so can't say if the sources are correct.


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## Neo Romanza

MagneticGhost said:


> I did a little google work.. Apparently L'Arlésienne (Bizet) has one or two wordless choruses in Act 2. I've never heard it so can't say if the sources are correct.


This could very well be true. I personally never heard it either but I seldom listen to Bizet.


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## Neo Romanza

MagneticGhost said:


> What about Dvorak and Coleridge Taylor. They made extensive use of these too. Gershwin was a bit of a johnny come lately on that front. But was Delius the prime innovator here?


Dvorak didn't complete _Symphony No. 9_ until 1893 which is six years after Delius composed the _Florida Suite_. As for Coleridge-Taylor, his famous works, like _Hiawatha's Wedding_ for example, wasn't composed until 1898 again a considerable amount of time after _Florida Suite_.


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## Richannes Wrahms

If there is an English composer that genuinely deserves great recognition, it is this guy.


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## senza sordino

I used to call him "Drearius". But as I age and slow down, it's lovely music I hadn't appreciated. In orchestra I once played The Walk to the Paradise Garden. 

Delius has a musical language I haven't completely understood, the musical lines can be long but once you get it, it's lovely music that is "Dreamius"


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## Richannes Wrahms

I think it is easier to start getting Delius by remembering that he was a protégé of Edvard Grieg.

For those who dislike mature Delius but love Grieg (Peer Gynt, Holberg Suite) , try the early 'Norwegian Suite' (1897), you might get hooked on:


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## TurnaboutVox

I like Delius very much. 

Being a chamber music fan I actually appreciate his violin sonatas, cello sonata, string quartet and his songs for voice and piano as much as his better known orchestral works.

His sound-world is rather unique - I have always wondered why so many people don't care for his music.


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## norman bates

TurnaboutVox said:


> I like Delius very much.
> 
> Being a chamber music fan I actually appreciate his violin sonatas, cello sonata, string quartet and his songs for voice and piano as much as his better known orchestral works.
> 
> His sound-world is rather unique - I have always wondered why so many people don't care for his music.


I guess he's a composer for those who enjoy in particular lush harmonies (after all he was a big Wagner fan) and don't care too much about structure. When I'm in the right mood, I can listen his dreamy musical landscapes for hours.


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## Ronaldo

I have been enjoying the music of Delius for more than seventy-five years, and I am unable to understand why his music is not more popular. True, there are multiple recordings of some of the shorter pieces like La Kalinda, the Arabesques, "On cooking the first Hero in Spring" -- sorry, that´s what we used to call "on hearing the first cuckoo . . . " when I was a growing up in England long, long ago. Some of my favourites today are the violin concerto, the opera A Village Romeo and Juliet, Paris, Song of the High Hills . . . . but I'd better stop.


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## leroy

Just listening to the Ulster Orchestra play Delius' Florida suite, it's a rather fine rendition of a beautiful piece of music.


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## Haydn man

leroy said:


> Just listening to the Ulster Orchestra play Delius' Florida suite, it's a rather fine rendition of a beautiful piece of music.


I couldn't agree more


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## joen_cph

From the house at Grez sur Loing, near Paris.

Some good Delius stuff:

- Florida Suite & North Country Sketches / Handley;
- Paris - The Song of a Great City
- Dance Rhapsodies I-II, for orchestra
- Life´s Dance, for orchestra
- Piano Concerto / Fowkes
- Violin Concerto / Holmes

- 3 Violin Sonatas / Holmes

- Songs of Sunset, Sea Drift, Songs of Farewell /Terfel, Hickox


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## Grizzled Ghost

I've had this for a while:









but can't really say it did much for me. Not sure why.

Anyway, just stumbled across this:









I'm really impressed! With both the songs and the Paris Nocturne. Ironically the one song shared with the first album "In a Summer Garden" is my least fave on the new album.

Based on this new discovery and comments above, I'm gonna have to sniff around a bit more!

First stop - ArkivMusic search!


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## Dim7

I like Delius, surprisingly


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## elgar's ghost

One of Delius's more 'Un-English' works is the opera Koanga, written during 1896-7. Set on a Spanish-owned Louisiana plantation during the 18th century, it concerns the arrival of a proud African prince forced into slavery and the plantation owner's non-violent (but nonetheless self-serving) attempt to pacify Koanga by introducing him to his maid, Palmyra, whom Koanga then falls for. However, the plantation owner's thuggish overseer has designs on the maid himself.

Delius was of course exposed to African-American music during his time as a young man in Florida and this knowledge enabled him to sprinkle the music of Koanga with Creole-ish touches (not to mention using African-American vocal forms such as working songs and spirituals). Although opera as a whole didn't exactly turn out to be Delius's strong suit this work is nevertheless well worth investigating. Below is the recording I have:


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## Richannes Wrahms

Richannes Wrahms said:


> If there is an English composer that genuinely deserves great recognition, it is this guy.


Well, maybe not 'great' (I can see faults in technique) but more than he's got, for developing an original style and language at the same time of Debussy and Strauss. He's sometimes got a lot of vulgarity that's offputting. In terms of recomendations: the last part of the Requiem for example, is very colourful, might deserve some arranging.


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## Vaneyes

I feel a *Delius* mini-fest coming on.

Concerti from Lane, R. Wallfisch, Little, Holmes. Handley and Mackerras conducting.
Orchestral from Beecham, Barbirolli (incl. String Music), and Groves.
Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonata, from LSO soloists and Margalit.


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## Biwa

Vaneyes said:


> I feel a *Delius* mini-fest coming on.


Hope you don't mind if I join you with...:cheers:









Delius: A Village Romeo and Juliet & Songs of Sunset (The Beecham Collection)

This 150th anniversary box set is also wonderful...









http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Mar12/Delius_150_0841752.htm


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## Grizzled Ghost

Picked up another:









I've got the hunger now.... Pretty soon I'll start growing fangs!

By the way, re-listened to the Mackerras album above. I will say this... the Florida Suite was absolutely amazing! I kept thinking of Smetana's Ma Vlast, and thinking this blows that away.

And as far as I can tell, that was his first work. Not sure he ever topped it, but we'll see.


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## Woodduck

Just now listening to the Violin Concerto. It's so sweetly lovely my teeth hurt. Sweets can be addictive. Caution warranted!

Beneath the loveliness of Delius is the recognition that all things must die. His rich, delicate harmonies, always changing, always dissolving into new configurations which promptly dissolve in turn, tell of life's transience. It's music that lives for the exquisite moment, often showing little overall direction or structure, but I don't think it's correct to call it "impressionism"; it's too sentiment-laden, too personal, music of private indulgence and intimate confession, neither objective nor transcendental. Ultimately I find it sad and, sometimes, almost too beautiful.


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## Becca

The _Florida Suite_ is, without a doubt, my favourite Delius piece. I suspect that _Brigg Fair_ runs it a close second. However, as Woodduck says, I always check by blood sugar level prior to indulging.


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## clavichorder

I just heard the Florida Suite on the radio. First time I've ever really listened to Delius. Intriguing style, it definitely is it's own sound world and I respect that.

I'm listening to Brigg Fair. It reminds me of Honegger's Pastorale D'ete.


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## David Phillips

The Florida Suite is an early work, much influenced by Grieg, and none the worse for that since it is incredibly tuneful. For those who think they are allergic to Delius's mature chromatic writing, the Florida Suite would be a good work to get to know an intriguing composer. It baffles me why such an engaging piece is so rarely performed when the old warhorses are trotted out endlessly.


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## Judith

Letting you know that Delius's birthplace isn't far from where I live, in the neighbouring city of Bradford. I live in Leeds and the place of birth is about twenty miles away. It is now a private building with a bar next door called "Delius Lived Next Door"!


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## clavichorder

Really enjoying "A Walk to the Paradise Garden." Has a fine musical orgasm three quarters in.


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## JosefinaHW

Bulldog's _CM and Water Game_ led me to Delius (and this thread). :tiphat:

The following are the two films mentioned in posts above. At first the boot-leg version of one of the films seems to be impossible to understand, but it improves later. I didn't upload that video and I just purchased the original, so I like to think that the BBC and the film maker are not being cheated.


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## elgar's ghost

Woodduck said:


> Just now listening to the Violin Concerto. It's so sweetly lovely my teeth hurt. Sweets can be addictive. Caution warranted!
> 
> Beneath the loveliness of Delius is the recognition that all things must die. His rich, delicate harmonies, always changing, always dissolving into new configurations which promptly dissolve in turn, tell of life's transience. It's music that lives for the exquisite moment, often showing little overall direction or structure, but I don't think it's correct to call it "impressionism"; it's too sentiment-laden, too personal, music of private indulgence and intimate confession, neither objective nor transcendental. Ultimately I find it sad and, sometimes, almost too beautiful.


Your view definitely chimes with an excerpt from an article on Delius where, if I recall correctly, he was described as 'the poet of regret for the vanquished hour and hedonistic delight'.


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## JosefinaHW

JosefinaHW said:


> Bulldog's _CM and Water Game_ led me to Delius (and this thread). :tiphat:
> 
> The following are the two films mentioned in posts above. At first the boot-leg version of one of the films seems to be impossible to understand, but it improves later. I didn't upload that video and I just purchased the original, so I like to think that the BBC and the film maker are not being cheated.


The following is really just for myself. The two different performances of Sea Drift that I listened to for the Water Game. I can't remember what really first grabbed my attention the grief for the bird or what I thought must be Terfel having lost his ability to sing.... I'm not so sure if the way he sang at the Proms wasn't deliberately harsh or angry or a shout or he meant it to sound like that. Here I go:


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## Larkenfield

When I hear the Delius _Sea Drift_, I sense an underlying ecstatic bliss that's almost pagan; truly otherworldly and heavenly; refined, exquisite music for the connoisseurs. I've never heard anyone like him, including Debussy and Ravel, who are not the same. Delius was strong in his own unique idiom, immediately identifiable if one gets more familiar with him. Ravishing! (But I don't care for this work with a big, wide warbling vibrato! When are singers going to learn?) There's also a sensuality to his music that I find irresistible, sensual like sleeping on silk and velvet...


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## norman bates

Larkenfield said:


> When I hear the Delius _Sea Drift_, I sense an underlying ecstatic bliss that's almost pagan; truly otherworldly and heavenly; refined, exquisite music for the connoisseurs. I've never heard anyone like him, including Debussy and Ravel, who are not the same. Delius was strong in his own unique idiom, immediately identifiable if one gets more familiar with him. Ravishing! (But I don't care for this work with a big, wide warbling vibrato! When are singers going to learn?) There's also a sensuality to his music that I find irresistible, sensual like sleeping on silk and velvet...


Delius is one of my favorite composers and I agree with what you're saying. 
It must be said that while he's considered an impressionist and rightly so (I don't care if Debussy and other composers didn't like the term, I know what it means and it's at least a good way to know what to expect in a composition when I read impressionism) he's closer probably to the composers he admired like Wagner and Grieg (and some of his friends like Percy Grainger and Peter Warlock) than Debussy or Ravel .


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## flamencosketches

I need to look into his work more. All I know is he wrote a suite for my home state, and he's just about the only one. I listened once and didn't find it particularly memorable. 

I was never sure where to fit him into the timeline of music history. So y'all are saying he's an impressionist? I'm a huge fan of Ravel and Debussy.


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## philoctetes

This is a really good Delius collection ... looks are deceiving... it's actually a 2-for-1 (Handley + Del Mar) with two bonus tracks by Hickox


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## philoctetes

Delius is well represented in historical recordings thanks to Beecham.. in some ways I prefer his 30s premiers to the EMI.. but this one is really good too and has no Beecham...


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