# Great melodists?



## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Hi - this is my first post in this forum. I hope to share and learn, as one of my greatest passions is classical music. I'm 63 years old and have been listening to classical music since I was a kid. But I really got going with it when I was 14. My dad and I were in his car and on the radio, Beethoven's 9th Symphony started. My dad was thrilled and said, "Just listen to this!" I did - bored because I wanted to listen to rock. And not understanding what I was hearing, as the 9th opened, I said, "So when are they going to stop tuning up?" 

Of course, now, the 9th is my favorite piece of music - period. The melodies are simply sublime - especially the 3rd movement. And the 4th movement sparkles. On a side note, now that I'm older, my hearing isn't what it used to be. So I don't hear the triangle and other high percussion instruments like I used to. Some of the sparkle is left for me to fill in with memories. (I can only imagine what Beethoven had to do in order to "hear" what he composed!)

For me, classical music needs melody. And so that brings me to my question.

Who are your favorite melodists in classical music? I'm very fond of Sibelius, Dvorak and Saint-Saens. All of their symphonies and concerti are magnificent.

Who are your favorites, and if you have any favorite pieces that are not super-well known, I'd love your recommendations!

Thanks!

~ Bal


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

you are probably familiar with the well-known composers like Sibelius, Dvořák, Beethoven etc.
My recommendation for lesser known melodic composers goes to Braga Santos and Atterberg

Joly Braga Santos - Symphony No. 4
Kurt Atterberg - Symphony No. 4
Erland von Koch - Symphony No.2 "Sinfonia Dalecarlia"
Alan Hovhaness - Symphony No. 6 'Celestial Gate'
Wilhelm Stenhammar - Symphony No.2


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Wonderful! Just the kind of response I was hoping for. Thanks, Jacck!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Well, Rachmaninov wrote some fine lush melodies. But melodic material (thematic material) is common to all music and I can't think of a noted composer who fails to provide strong melodic material. There is clearly a type of melody that is referred to in the OP but as the model provided is Beethoven 9 - with that very dramatic (but hardly conventionally melodic) call to attention that starts the last movement - I am thinking that we can be broad in our interpretation. There is melody that you can hum or whistle but there are also melodies and themes and _riffs _that get into your head and stand for something as they get manipulated by the composer in a variety of melodically interesting ways.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

MusicMuse said:


> And not understanding what I was hearing, as the 9th opened, I said, "So when are they going to stop tuning up?"


That's funny.

Maurice Ravel was a great melodist. His orchestration is so incredible, sometimes I forget there's an amazing melody on top.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

You might be familiar with these works already but in my personal opinion these works contain the most beautiful melodies in all of Art Music:

Mozart's Clarinet Concerto
Beethoven's 6th Symphony
Beethoven's Violin Concerto
Schubert's Trout Quintet
Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto
Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto
Brahms' Violin Concerto
Brahms' 1st Symphony
Dvorak's Cello Concerto
Dvorak's 8th Symphony
Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto
Holst's The Planets (especially Jupiter)
Copland's Appalachian Spring
Hanson's 2nd Symphony

There are more of course but these stood out for me.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

For me:

Glazunov: The Seasons, Raymonda; Symphonies IV & VI; Theme et Variations for piano, Piano Sonatas I & II.
Myaskovsky: Prelude & Rondo for piano, op. 58; Symphonies V, XV, XVI, XVIII, XX, XXV, XXVII; String Quartets II, X, XIII.
Balakirev: Symphony no. I; Tamara; Piano Sonata in B-flat, op. 5
Bax: Symphonies II, III, VI, VII; Piano Sonatas I, II; Christmas Eve.
Creston: Symphony no. II, Choreographic Suite.
Atterberg: Symphonies I, II, IV; Varmland Rhapsody; Cello Sonata (slow movement)
Sibelius: Symphonies II, VI.
Melartin: Opera "Aino"; Symphony no. IV; Lyric Pieces for piano, Melancholy Garden for piano.
Merikanto: Opera "Juha", Piano Concerto III
Tubin: Symphony no. IV; Sinfonietta on Estonian Motifs; Ballad for piano and violin
Schmitt: Anthony et Cleopatra, La Tragédie de Salomé
Massenet: Cinderella
Dukas: La Peri
Lehar: Der Zarewitsch, Giuditta, The Merry Widow, The Count of Luxembourg
Puccini: La Fanciulla del West


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Absolutely, Enthusiast - be as broad in your interpretation as you'd like. We won't share all of the same tastes. But if you find something melodic, I'd love to hear it.

Some of my opener (the story of my first experience with Beethoven's 9th) was just to tell a tiny bit about my musical life.  

The conversational context of my opener is that I found myself continually going back to composers and pieces that I know and love. Which is fine. But it's a huge world out there and there are many composers who may not have become as renowned as "the greats," but whose music is nevertheless sweet, dramatic, light and airy, etc., and well worth the listen.

Also - if there are pieces that are primarily melodic, but throw in a bit of dissonance, I love that, too. Stravinsky's Petrushka is an example of that, yes?

Thanks for your comment - it broadens and deepens the conversation.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Fantastic - my music list has expanded significantly!


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## Steve Mc (Jun 14, 2018)

When talking of melodists, of course you must talk about Mozart and Tchaikovsky. 
I must recommend John Williams, though, and not just his more popular stuff. Great melodies to be heard in scores like Empire of the Sun, Artificial Intelligence, and Memoirs of a Geisha.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Tchaikovsky is my go-to melodist. His Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake ballets are full of fantastic melodies (I'm assuming you are already familiar with The Nutcracker).


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

bharbeke said:


> Tchaikovsky is my go-to melodist. His Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake ballets are full of fantastic melodies (I'm assuming you are already familiar with The Nutcracker).


I agree with this. Dvorak would be my second choice. But in general, I would recommend listening to works from the romantic era, c. 1800 to 1910.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

I am familiar with much of the classical repertoire. Not nearly enough (is there ever enough?). On some of the lists are pieces I'm familiar with, but mostly not. So this is proving to be a treasure trove for me.

My go-to composers have been Beethoven, Sibelius, JS Bach, Brahms, Dvorak, Saint-Saens, Grieg, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Stravinsky - and others. 

I just finished listening to the Santos Symphony #4 recommended by Jacck and found it terrific. 

In a way, I feel like I'm back in my college days, where I would do my homework at the college library, and check out vinyl records to listen to. (We couldn't take them away from the listening area.) It's where I first learned of Sibelius and Stravinsky. Now I'm going to learn of others. 

Yippee! :tiphat:


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Schubert was an uncanny melodist; his extremely short career is jammed full of memorable melodies. Sometimes it seems that he must have knocked out half a dozen great melodies in an afternoon to be able to have such an extensive catalogue in so few years.


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## Dima (Oct 3, 2016)

What do you think about the composer of these melodies. Are they great? (both melodies belong to one composer)


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Tchaikovsky, Vaughan Williams, Ravel. I can listen to them anytime, and be moved.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

There have been many, many great melodists, from Bach to Tchaikovsky to Mahler and beyond, but for my ears, no one has a greater batting average for writing consistently memorable, beautiful and inspired melodies, fully supported by rhythm and harmony, than Frederick Chopin. His Nocturnes are perfect examples. When heard in great detail, they are exquisite in the beauty and inspiration of their melodic ideas. Nor was he ever in danger of running out-elegant, elegiac, singing, flowing, graceful, poetic, bold, sensitive, joyous, melancholy, refined, introspective, miraculous, magical, and sublime.

(Chopin was also called "the greatest harmonist since Bach" by one of his biographers, James Huneker, and I couldn't agree more. Chopin was as exacting and disciplined as Bach. One can hear the exactness by simply slowing down any passage to half-speed of anything he wrote. It's precise, carefully worked out, technically brilliant, skillfully chromatic, innovative, daring, and often revolutionary. He set out to create a new world, and he did.)


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

I think many and clear great melodists have been already named, so I could add the next ones and some of the works I consider contain some stirring tunes:

Elgar - Symphonies, Cello concerto, several choral works
Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade, Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Easter Festival Overture
Prokofiev - Symphonies, ballets, sonatas, etc.
Peterson-Berger - Symphonies (esp. the No. 3), Last Summer
Larsson - A Winter's Tale, Little Serenade for strings, Pastoral Suite, Symphonies
Smetana - My Country, The Bartered Bride, chamber music
Bantock - A Celtic Symphony (plenty of stunning melodies)
Khachaturian - Gayaneh, Spartacus
Respighi - Roman Tryptich, Vetrate di Chiesa, Belkis, Trittico Botticelliano, Metamorphoseon
Suk - Fantastic Scherzo, A Fairy's Tale
Johann Strauss II - Another possible candidate for the king of melodists
Franck - Violin sonata, Le Chasseur Maudit
Kalinnikov - Symphonies 1 & 2, Tsar Boris
Strauss - An Alpine Symphony, Till Eulenspiegel, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Don Juan, Aus Italien, Four Last Songs


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Wow - this is a melodist lover's playground. I'll add a few of my own now.

- Sibelius - All of his Symphonies (all of which, for my 60th birthday, I got to see performed live by the Seattle Symphony) a few years ago, Finlandia, Lemminkainen Suite, Karelia Suite and Violin Concerto

- Alan Hovhaness - Rubaiyat of Omar Khayam 

- Edvard Grieg - Piano Concerto

- Camille Saint-Saens - All of his Piano Concertos, Symphony No. 3 (Organ Symphony)

- Samuel Barber - Adagio for Strings

- Charles Ives - Symphony No. 2

I wonder how long we can keep this list going. Thanks to all for making this thread a keeper for me! Truly appreciated!

~ Bal


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

thanks to Bulldog's game, I discovered the symphony No.3 by Tyberg. It has a wonderful melody in the adagio sections, on par with the Braga Santos




keep listening till the end, it gets fantastic

another melodist I would recommend is Glazunov
Alexander Glazunov : Symphony No. 4 in E-flat major Op. 48





we should not forget Tchaikovsky. I love his symphony 5


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## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

MusicMuse said:


> - Samuel Barber - Adagio for Strings


...and a bunch of other stuff from this melodic maestro , incl.:

Violin Conc.
Cello Conc.
Symph 1
Symph 2
Essay 1, 2, 3
Music from a Scene from Shelly
etc., etc.

In a Naxos podcast with Marin Alsop, she noted Barber as being among her most melodic conducting projects.


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## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

John Williams (film composer).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Chopin lazy? Find George Sand's descriptions of Chopin composing when they were living together. He used to go over and over and over and over his work, get exasperated, practically pull his hair out working out certain passages.... He studied Bach and Mozart and his works were very exacting and thoughtful, no matter how casual they may seem, and very correct harmonically. But people don't usually understand this because they might accept some critic's dismissive opinion about Chopin because he was not interested in writing string quartets, symphonies, and operas, though he did do an elegiac cello sonata and a number of lovely songs, in addition to his famous writings for the piano. He's played virtually everywhere in the world. Very few know this unless they have studied his life and heard the entire range of his music. His emotional range is staggeringly wide, from the utmost sensitivity of his Nocturnes to the anger and sarcasm of his Scherzi. Many of his Polonaise are epic and thrilling, full of fire, battle, war and military heroism, full of story and narrative but never exactly spelled out... and virile with masculinity.

Here's where Huneker's book can be found, who did a detailed study of everything Chopin wrote, and his analysis was brilliant. It's not a book to read for all the exacting details of his biography because it's over 100 years old and that aspect of Chopin's life has been updated in other biographies... The value of the book is in Huneker's analysis, and he was a true Chopin fanatic who not only looked at Chopin's strengths but also did a fair and honest appraisal of his weaknesses.

All composers have their shortcomings, even Mozart. But Chopin wasn't lazy and it does him a great disservice for anyone to say that who is not more familiar with his life, including his wretched suffering with tuberculosis. He wasn't trying to be another Bach or Mozart in mastering the writing of fugues... He was Frederick Chopin-the revolutionary carving a path out for himself, and he was accepted as a genius in his own lifetime.

Chopin: The Man and His Music: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4939/4939-h/4939-h.htm


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Frankly the comment that Chopin was lazy is somewhat ridiculous when we see the amount of music he produced in a relatively short life . The fact was he was a pianist was interested in writing a certain type of music for the piano which he did very well. Wasn't Donizetti. On hearing Rossini had compiled 'the Barber' in just three weeks remarked, "yes, he always was lazy!"


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Bellini is the greatest melodist I know. Norma, La Sonnambula...I Puritani is one of the only operas I can enjoy just as well by closing my eyes and letting myself be carried away by the beautiful melodies, not having to keep up with the libretto.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Gallus said:


> Bellini is the greatest melodist I know. Norma, La Sonnambula...I Puritani is one of the only operas I can enjoy just as well by closing my eyes and letting myself be carried away by the beautiful melodies, not having to keep up with the libretto.


I'll have to give Bellini a listen. But you reminded me of another melodist who delights me no end: Arthur Sullivan of Gilbert & Sullivan fame. Some of the melodies I most enjoy come from their operettas. I know that's probably a bit "low brow," but I can't help it.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## DLOinQUEENS (Nov 22, 2018)

For a fairly rare, but really great melody, try Fibich’s second theme from the third movement of his second string quartet. The Kocian Quartett on Orfeo really nailed this, with a pleasantly tame tempo. And the last movement of his second symphony is also incredibly melodic and cheerful - played with appropriate energy by the Detroit SO under Jarvi.

The 2nd movement from Raffs 8th symphony is melodically brilliant - played beautifully by the Basel RSO on Tudor. A truly forgotten gem.

Another rare and beautiful lost treasure is the opening movement from Klughardt’s 3rd symphony - really bright and uplifting. The CPO recording is not to be missed.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Scriabin was a great melodist. Many wonderful little melodies and themes throughout his earlier music that I cannot ever seem to get enough of. 
Actually, there's no doubt in my mind he was, or could have been, great at any aspect of classical music if he set his mind to it.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Choose William Wallace (like a good Englander... Ok he was from Scotland but who cares), Howard Hanson (like a good American) and Franz Liszt (like a good Classic music friend) and you have what are you looking for. 

*there are numerous excellent melodists out there. You need only your ears and time to listen to them.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Dimace said:


> there are numerous excellent melodists out there. You need only your ears and time to listen to them.


Yes - of course... Which is what my opener was about. 

Thanks for your suggestions.

~ Bal

Addendum: In order to listen to melodists, you have to know about them. I figured in a group like this, I could get good recommendations rather than going the hit-and-miss route of looking for music on my own (which I will continue to do).


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> "He even gave up composition in the last 3 years of his valuable lifetime."


I don't think it's a matter that he "gave up".



> From 1842 onwards, Chopin showed signs of serious illness. After a solo recital in Paris on 21 February 1842, he wrote to Grzymała: "I have to lie in bed all day long, my mouth and tonsils are aching so much." He was forced by illness to decline a written invitation from Alkan to participate in a repeat performance of the Beethoven Seventh Symphony arrangement at Érard's on 1 March 1843. Late in 1844, Charles Hallé visited Chopin and found him "hardly able to move, bent like a half-opened penknife and evidently in great pain", although his spirits returned when he started to play the piano for his visitor. Chopin's health continued to deteriorate, particularly from this time onwards. Modern research suggests that apart from any other illnesses [tuberculosis], he may also have suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy." [unquote]
> 
> Despite his deteriorating health, he managed to compose the following list of works in 1842 and during most of his remaining years... His Op. 60, Barcarolle in F♯ major written 1845-6 is considered one of his major works in which he furthers his development in the way he seems to "float" time and make it more drawn out and spacious as the final deepening and maturing of his genius. After 1846, because of his ill-health and his emotional turbulence in his break-up with George Sand, he was essentially emotionally and creatively exhausted, though he continued to perform when he had the strength until Nov. of 1848, in which he had gotten down to 99 lbs.
> 
> ...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

MusicMuse said:


> Absolutely, Enthusiast - be as broad in your interpretation as you'd like. We won't share all of the same tastes. But if you find something melodic, I'd love to hear it.
> 
> Some of my opener (the story of my first experience with Beethoven's 9th) was just to tell a tiny bit about my musical life.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I missed this. I guess thematic material (= melody?) can be of various types. I remember decades ago when I was discovering the bebop saxophonist, Charlie Parker, that I listened a couple of time to a record and thought "oh yeah, quite nice" but then his distinctive riffs kept repeating themselves in my mind's ear and after that I think I got his music properly. I have had similar experiences with atonal music and some very contemporary music: not all such music but music that seemed to resist an understanding of the structure and where the music is going.

OK, such examples are still not that easy or enjoyable to hum along to but getting the thematic material (being able to attach apparent "abstract meaning" to it) is the key to getting the music itself. But there are plenty of composers who use short thematic motifs that are deeply hummable - such as the material that Wagner uses to build his musical dramas.


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## pianoville (Jul 19, 2018)

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Brahms! The late piano works are full of great themes, and the violin sonatas also have some very beautiful melodies.


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## ribonucleic (Aug 20, 2014)

MusicMuse said:


> Hi - this is my first post in this forum.


Please don't take the brutal hazing rituals personally. We've all gone through it.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

pianoville - I love Brahms, too.

ribonucleic - I appreciate the encouragement. it's been a rough go, but I think I'll survive. 

~ Bal


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> "He was a lazy composer who did not put instruction in his music. Take, for example, the Second Scherzo. It is marked presto but the middle section which is in three sharps does not have a new tempo instruction and yet everyone plays it as an andante or moderato. The music here lends itself to a slower tempo but as far as Chopin's manuscript states the works is presto throughout."
> https://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/frederick-chopin.pdf
> (I know there are some unfair attacks on Chopin's personal life in the article but) I didn't notice on the score Chopin didn't bother to write a tempo marking for the middle section of Scherzo in B flat minor until I read this.


That's interesting. I'm an amateur composer, currently working on the final edits of a Piano Quartet. I do not have formal training, but I do have the help of a music teacher who does. I asked her this question: How much instruction should I put on the score versus how much should I leave it to the performers' interpretations of my intention? I've opted for a smaller instruction footprint so as to give more room for the musicians to bring their own expertise and passion to the effort. Might Chopin have had a similar intention? (Note: I'm not asserting. I don't know enough to assert. I'm just wondering.)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Reading the comments about Chopin's lack of instruction in his score raises some questions for me.

I am currently working on a piano quartet. My music teacher and I had a discussion about how much instruction to include, and she indicated that there was less during the baroque era than in later times. Is this accurate? My main goal in composing for musicians to play is that they enjoy playing the piece. My secondary goal is that the audience, if there is one, enjoys it. The musicians come first because if they're not happy, the audience can't be.

So I'm viewing instruction as akin to management. And in any management situation, you ideally have enough instruction to make intentions clear and to provide enough information that the people performing the tasks can do a good job. What you don't want is to micromanage them.

So was Chopin of this mind - wanting to provide enough instruction to make the piece properly playable and not so granular as to be micromanaging?

Hopefully, I'm making sense.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

A thread on melodists, yet no mention so far of Faure? 

Some mistake, surely?


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Pat Fairlea said:


> A thread on melodists, yet no mention so far of Faure?
> 
> Some mistake, surely?


What would be a good introduction to Faure, Pat?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Pat Fairlea said:


> A thread on melodists, yet no mention so far of Faure?
> 
> Some mistake, surely?


Not as bad as no one mentioning Prokofiev (except one person rating him as second tier).


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

After Chopin announces that he's going to tell a story in the introduction, here's another elegant, unforgettable Chopin melody that draws in the listener. There's a sense of epic drama and a tremendous outpouring of feeling, great emotional expression, with dazzling pianism often involving both hands working with and not against each other. Chopin has a narrative story but he too smart to ever exactly spell out the specifics and yet he's conveying something of the experience. Brilliant. Some of the Chopin Polonaise also have a strong sense of narrative, such as his famous Polonaise #6 In A Flat, Op. 53, "Héroïque," which is reminiscent of a military battle that is being won by the right side. Thrilling.

Specifically, a Ballade in music is "the setting of a literary ballad, a narrative poem, in the musical tradition of the Lied, or to a one-movement instrumental piece with lyrical and dramatic narrative qualities reminiscent of such a song setting, especially a piano ballad." Superb performance by Zimerman. I believe one of Chopin's greatest gifts is his ability to establish a mood, a vivid setting, and not spoil it. He lets his instincts and what he has to say about the narrative run their course... and his G minor Ballade is a perfect example.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

****double post


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Larkenfield said:


> Superb performance by Zimerman.


^ Ah yes, the infamous, magically changing stool performance (3:20 vs 8:20).
Hehe I love it though.


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

Schubert, Schubert, and Schubert.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

One of Scriabin's famous Etudes played by Hamelin being more soulful than he's often given credit for. Like Chopin, Scriabin often kept his melodies in the forefront; and also like Chopin, piano literature would have been unthinkable without him-he drove the potential power of the instrument even further.


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## MusicMuse (Nov 21, 2018)

Olias said:


> You might be familiar with these works already but in my personal opinion these works contain the most beautiful melodies in all of Art Music:
> 
> Mozart's Clarinet Concerto
> Beethoven's 6th Symphony
> ...


I just finished listening to Hanson's 2nd Symphony - the only one on your list that I was familiar with. I enjoyed it a lot. Thanks muchly.

~ Bal


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Liszt was mentioned and for good reason:


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