# Is this likely why I haven?



## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

*Is this likely why I haven't gotten past the exposition?*

So the progress I have on the fugue exposition is slow. But I have been told by a musician that composing a fugue is like learning a language, despite how simple it seems on the outside, it is hard and that my instinct to finish my C minor fugue and write another fugue is correct if I want to get good at writing fugues.

I have also been told that I am limiting myself by only thinking in terms of what Bach would do and only studying Bach's fugues. But am I really limiting myself if Bach composed such a diverse array of fugues with the stricter rules of Baroque counterpoint?

Also I have seen multiple fugues where Bach uses parallel octaves which according to the rules of counterpoint aren't allowed.

But is this free counterpoint and me thinking:



> So many possible notes, thousands of possible fugues at least with the same subject and countersubject. It is like there is this fog that is in front of me at all times. I can't see 1 clear path to go, how am I even going to decide when to invert the subject or present it retrograde or if I want to add another countersubject? How am I going to even get past those first 16 measures? I mean I could leap from 1 octave to another for any voice, I could invert the countersubject, I just know that I don't want my first fugue to end up being a double fugue because that's going to be almost impossible if I can't even decide which notes to use in the development of a single fugue(so like 1 subject and countersubjects and that's it). How am I going to decide if I want a canonic moment or what fragments of the subject to use in the development? Do I want a recapitulation to make it closer to sonata form than it already is?


why I haven't gotten past those 16 measures of the exposition?

I mean how am I going to decide on the notes to use or when to present the subject again?


----------



## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

You are definitely limiting yourself both long term and short term. Write the fugue how YOU want to, don't make it some knock off imitation.


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

My suggestion is to study and analyze as many fugues as you can get your hands on. Bach is so often mentioned, and rightly so, because he was a master at it. Two-part fugues are generally easier to write than four-part fugues, though no fugue should be taken for granted as easy to write, and there are ways to work with secondary or counter-themes... Here's a very clear and entertaining example of a two-part fugue and what can be done with a knowledge of the principles of writing a fugue and a little fun imagination. Fugues are a way of highly organizing sound and they don't necessarily have to be serious, but they do have to be correctly written or most listeners will know.


----------



## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)

> Also I have seen multiple fugues where Bach uses parallel octaves which according to the rules of counterpoint aren't allowed.


I don't believe you. Please post evidence of just one example.


----------



## paulc (Apr 18, 2011)

caters said:


> "Also I have seen multiple fugues where Bach uses parallel octaves which according to the rules of counterpoint aren't allowed.


The 'parallel octaves' you are seeing may be voice doublings? Doublings of a single independent line do not always count as clashes (?).

There's an example in my harmony book of a Chopin Waltz which seems to have parallel 5ths in the inner voices. The author (Robert Gauldin) notes that the conforming notes of the soprano have been copied and pasted down.


----------



## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

caters said:


> I mean how am I going to decide on the notes to use or when to present the subject again?


I think you might benefit from a more playful approach. Like a new toy. Try this, try that, see and feel the limits, the wrong directions, the right directions, the trivial or boring directions, the interesting though incorrect directions, all that. Playful, fun, innocently exploratory. Ignorant (for the moment) of the need to "do it right" or sound great or be intelligent or get a good reaction.


----------



## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

I agree with JeffD. I think trying to force form into music is counterintuitive. If you can't force your ideas into one rigid format, don't


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

By parallel octaves, I think you mean a 3rd voice starting the subject in an octave above or below the 1st voice? That is pretty common, and not against any counterpoint rules that I know of.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

caters said:


> So the progress I have on the fugue exposition is slow. But I have been told by a musician that composing a fugue is like learning a language, despite how simple it seems on the outside, it is hard and that my instinct to finish my C minor fugue and write another fugue is correct if I want to get good at writing fugues.
> 
> I have also been told that I am limiting myself by *only thinking in terms of what Bach would do and only studying Bach's fugues*. But am I really limiting myself if Bach composed such a diverse array of fugues with the stricter rules of Baroque counterpoint?


In learning to write tonal counterpoint that is exactly what you should do - but you aren't doing it. Respondents have pointed out that within the first four measures you did several things neither Bach nor anyone else in that era would have done. If you are really trying to write in Baroque style, you need to throw this one away and start over. It isn't salvagable.

When you start over it might be a good idea to write five different expositions before deciding which to go with.


----------



## MarkMcD (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread as I'm trying to write a fugue also and finding it really hard too.


----------

