# Conclusion to Bruckner 9



## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

Bruckner, of course, never finished his epic Ninth Symphony, but there have been a few attempts to reconstruct and finish the conclusion of that work, using his notes and drafts.
I've recently listened to the one done by Samale/Phillips/Cohrs/Mazzaca, recorded by Simon Rattle:
https://www.amazon.ca/Bruckner-Symp...ttle+bruckner+9&qid=1601093348&s=music&sr=1-1

I don't like because to my ear it just doesn't sound like Bruckner: too dissonant and modern. I've ordered Schaller's renderings; apparently there's one by Carragan and one by Schaller included in this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Bruckner-Comp...uckner+complete&qid=1601093467&s=music&sr=1-1
I haven't received it yet; anyone heard Schaller's or Carragan's completion of the finale?
Are there any other attempts to finish it?


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Pure Fool, know first that the dissonance and modern aspects to it are in fact definitely Bruckner, who had completed the fourth movement in short score, complete with dissonance. Some of the pages of the short score were taken away from Bruckner's chambers as momentos; that plus the striking dissonance were part of why the lie was promulgated that the last movement was far, far less complete and and more fragmentary than it actually was. 

For more specifics, take a listen to Harnoncourt's lecture concert about the fourth movement with the Vienna Philharmonic. 

What you'll discover is that the padding added by others to cover some of the gaps is never the dissonant parts, which were most definitely in Bruckner's short score and definitely his and definitely his vision for the piece. 

And, by the way, those dissonances in the fourth are entirely in line with the dissonances in the first three movements. Of all four, the most extreme movement for dissonance is and always was the third.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Pure Fool said:


> I've ordered Schaller's renderings; apparently there's one by Carragan and one by Schaller included in this:
> https://www.amazon.ca/Bruckner-Comp...uckner+complete&qid=1601093467&s=music&sr=1-1
> I haven't received it yet; anyone heard Schaller's or Carragan's completion of the finale?
> Are there any other attempts to finish it?


Gerd Schaller did his own completion which was recorded in 2016, then subsequently revised it and recorded that 2 years later.

As to other attempts ... quite a few!

The most difficult part of any completion of this symphony is with the coda which is the largest missing part. Of the completions with which I am familiar, I find Schaller's revised version to be the most convincing.


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

Knorf:
Thanks for your input. I will try to find that Harnoncourt lecture; do you know if it's on youtube? So, of the several reconstruction/completions of the finale, which do you prefer?
Cordially,


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

Thanks, Becca; I look forward to hearing Schaller's completion. I assume his revision is the one I ordered. I may look into his earlier version as well. May I ask, why do you "find Schaller's revised version to be the most convincing"?


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Pure Fool said:


> Knorf:
> Thanks for your input. I will try to find that Harnoncourt lecture; do you know if it's on youtube? So, of the several reconstruction/completions of the finale, which do you prefer?
> Cordially,


I looked for the lecture on YouTube, without luck.

So far I like the Samale/Mazzuca/Phillips/Cohrs, but I haven't heard Schaller. Becca's advocacy is compelling!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

It feels more like it 'fits', gives a satisfying conclusion. The Samale et.al., not quite so much.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The Harnoncourt talk is available on Spotify


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

Knorf and Becca:
Is this the Harnoncourt talk we've discussed?
https://play.primephonic.com/album/884977275759
If you can't link, it seems to be a talk called "Like a Stone From the Moon," included on an album of Harnoncourt conducting the 9th with the Vienna Phil.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Bruckner has had three movements of darkness. This meant that the victory of the finale had to be hard-won. From Purgatory to Heaven. That is why the finale is dissonant.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I rather enjoyed the Samale/Phillips/Cohrs/Mazzuca. Given the staggering challenge all these "editors" face, overall their version is quite compelling. I've heard most of the versions out there, some are better than others. But one thing is for certain: that fourth movement really changes my perception of the previous three and now, when the 9th is on I always use one of the 4-movement versions. One of my most memorable thrills of all was to play Carragan's last version and talk to him about his version and the other Bruckner work he has done. There's so much actual Bruckner in the 4th movement (far, far more than Mahler left in his 10th) that it would be a shame not be able to hear it just because the closing pages weren't there.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Pure Fool said:


> Knorf and Becca:
> Is this the Harnoncourt talk we've discussed?
> https://play.primephonic.com/album/884977275759
> If you can't link, it seems to be a talk called "Like a Stone From the Moon," included on an album of Harnoncourt conducting the 9th with the Vienna Phil.


Yep! That's it. Enjoy.


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

I did find it enjoyable, Knorf; thanks for alerting me to it. I also found it educational and enlightening.


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

I just finished listening to Schaller's rendering of William Carragan's completion of the conclusion to Bruckner 9 and Schaller's 2016 completion. Of the 3 I've heard, I consider Schaller's the most convincing because it's the heaviest, most powerful, and sounds the most like Bruckner to me. I've yet to hear his 2018 revision. I find the Samale et al version the least convincing and least enjoyable, although it's nonetheless pretty good; worhtwhile if you're into Bruckner.


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

Pure Fool said:


> anyone heard Schaller's or Carragan's completion of the finale?
> Are there any other attempts to finish it?


Here is a list of all versions and recordings:

https://www.abruckner.com/discography/symphonyno9indmino/

In my opinion the conducting style is more important than the exact version. Nobody is used to play this movement, so there are big discrepancies. Overall the movement is conducted too fast most of the time.

I recommend the Kurt Eichhorn recording of the 1992 SPCM version:






Here is also good recording of the Carragan version (Conductor: Hubert Soudant):

https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/February09/


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Wildner has recorded *early SMPC* version (1996?) for Naxos.
Rattle offers later *2012 SMPC* version on EMI.
*Schaller*'s boxset on Profil contains both *Carragan* and his own versions of the Finale.

Carragan is my least favorite. I do not think I ever gave it another listen beyond the first one.

I haven't had a chance to listen to Schaller's completion yet but I will very soon and I'll report my findings. I think he amended his completion in 2018 but since the boxset has been released in 2017 I believe it's the previous version I'm going to listen to.

Also you can easily discard any previous SMPC completions, as these were superseded with 2012 version. I'm not aware if there are any newer ones, but Rattle B9 recording is the only one that I come back to regularly and actually enjoy the Finale. This is definitely the most satisfying attempt and the performance is immaculate. But if I must listen to just the first 3 movements, my go-to recording is Giulini on DGG (no big surprise).


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

The different versions of Bruckner's symphonies tell us that there are multiple options for his music to unfold. There is not just one way how it has to be. Just listen to the recordings you like the most.


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## Pure Fool (Jul 30, 2018)

Many thanks, Aries: I will look into those.


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