# Russian nationalism.



## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Hello

During the coming year 2022 I am going to spend some time listening to music of Russian nationalism. Obviously I will include works by Tchaikovsky, one of my favorite composers. Could anyone recommend me some biography of this Russian composer? 
What I intend to do is to learn about his life and the motivations that led him towards his work. My knowledge on composition is very basic, so there is no need to go deeper into this subject.
In this thread I will be including the works I listen to and my personal opinions, in case they are of interest.

Thank you very much
Vicente


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

First, Tchaikovsky is not generally considered one of the Russian Nationalists. He was in the Rubinstein camp, which was much more influenced by German music. Of course, the Mighty Five (Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, Mussorgsky, Cui and Borodin) had contact with him, but he frequently criticized their lack of professional training and skill.

There are several excellent biographies on Tchaikovsky. The Anthony Holden book is fine, and the newer one by John Suchet is very good and reveals new information and thinking. Then there's the David Brown bio that I like very much. All are very readable by the non-musician. And all deal with the controversy of his death in different ways.

Another very useful book, but deals more with the music was edited by Gerald Abraham. Separate chapters on the operas, ballets, symphonies, chamber music, other orchestra music, piano, etc. Sadly out of print. I found my copy years ago at a used book store. But highly recommended for the Tchaikovsky fanatic.

When I first bought the Brown book I had by then amassed a sizable, and nearly complete Tchaikovsky library. I spent several months reading the book: as each work was dealt with I would listen to the music.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Thomas Mann's son Klaus wrote a biographical novel on Tchaikovsky that is quite romanticized but interesting, if one likes such books.

Pathetic Symphony. A novel about Tchaikovsky. Allen, Towne & Heath, New York 1948 (first German edition was 1935)


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Isn't Mikhail Glinka considered to be the "founder" of Russian nationalist music?? He was the first recognized classical composer in Russia...I know the Mighty Five were influenced by him....


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, such as via the orchestral piece '_Kamarinskaya_':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamarinskaya


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The opera Boris Godunov might be considered (okay _I_ consider it) the greatest work of Russian nationalism in the repertoire.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Boris is a seminal work, and in the Rimsky-Korsakov version you get the absolute peak of Russian Nationalism: Mussorgsky's incredible lyricism and R-Ks stunning orchestration. I've tried but the Mussorgsky original version (as recorded by Gergiev) take a back seat to Rimsky-Korsakov's version. Karajan, Cluytens, Abbado -- they're all great.

In some ways, Tchaikovsky got closer to the Nationalists in his operas. I love Queen of Spades, Eugen Onegan, The Enchantress. Did anyone else watch the Berlin Philharmonic do Mazeppa today? Brilliant!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Vicente said:


> Hello
> 
> During the coming year 2022 I am going to spend some time listening to music of Russian nationalism. Obviously I will include works by Tchaikovsky, one of my favorite composers. Could anyone recommend me some biography of this Russian composer?
> What I intend to do is to learn about his life and the motivations that led him towards his work. My knowledge on composition is very basic, so there is no need to go deeper into this subject.
> ...











Klaus Mann: Tchaikovsky. Symphonie Pathétique.


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Thank you very much for the information. The truth is that in the book "A New Way of Listening" by Alexander Waugh they include Tchaikokvsky as the first in his journey through Russian nationalism. Hence my mistake. Well, and that he is a composer I love.

I'll start next year's tour with Glinka and continue with "The Mighty Five", I'll see what I include next. 

I'm doing some research on Glinka's biography on the internet and selecting some recordings. The truth is that what I am listening to is pleasing me a lot. I am amused by the Spanish influence in some of his works (I am Spanish).

Greetings and thanks
Vicente


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## RussianFlute (Jul 26, 2021)

Is anyone aware of recordings of only the incidental music from Boris Godunov? I just can't get into opera vocals, but I hear such good things about the music.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

A Symphonic Synthesis has been arranged from the opera, it was recorded several times.

What I've heard, and it's been a while since, Stokowski's, didn't perhaps quite match my expectations on the basis of the original opera music, but it was because of that recording's phrasings ... And yes, the opera's instrumental sections are very catchy, and downright fantastic.

Some recordings here:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=boris godunov symphonic


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

I have made my initial Glinka music selection from the nine recordings I have:

- Vals Fantasie
- Ruslan and Ludmila Overture
- Kamarinskaia
- Pathetique Trio
- Viola sonata

I am not an opera fan, so just have selected orchestral and chamber music.

Regards
Vicente


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

For Glinka, that's a great start. But...do try to listen to the operas. They both suffer from messy, convoluted libretti, but put in context of his contemporary German and French operas they're a real treat. If you love the Russlan & Lyudmilla overture (who doesn't?), the closing scene of that opera will startle you, especially in the Gergiev performance. Besides, no thorough study of Russian Nationalism can avoid opera. Opera was the classiest entertainment of the day and any composer worth his salt tried his hand at it: Glinka, Mussorgsky, Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky etc. But to really understand Nationaiism, the operas of Serov, Dargomyzhsky, Cui, Rubinstein, Arensky all wrote operas which are well worth your time.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Lots of good suggestions in this thread.
I'll just add a quiet reminder about Anatoly Lyadov. Small output but resoundingly Russian.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Tchaikovsky may not have been a member of the so-called "mighty five " and his music is certainly much more polished technically and influenced by the musical traditions of western Europe, but it's still profoundly Russian in nature , and he sometimes makes use of Russian or Ukrainian folk songs . 
For example, his second symphony , subtitled "Little Russian " ( little Russia being another name for Ukraine ) , makes use of Ukrainian folk songs .


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

What Stravinsky said about Tchaikovsky is so true: "He was the most Russian of us all."


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> For Glinka, that's a great start. But...do try to listen to the operas. They both suffer from messy, convoluted libretti, but put in context of his contemporary German and French operas they're a real treat. If you love the Russlan & Lyudmilla overture (who doesn't?), the closing scene of that opera will startle you, especially in the Gergiev performance. Besides, no thorough study of Russian Nationalism can avoid opera.


I will include some operas, begining with Glinka's Ruslan and Ludmila. I have found a Youtube recording, just to make a first aproach to the story. Only thing is that I will need more than a year for this study. No problem, it will be fascinating.

Regards


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> For Glinka, that's a great start. But...do try to listen to the operas. They both suffer from messy, convoluted libretti, but put in context of his contemporary German and French operas they're a real treat. If you love the Russlan & Lyudmilla overture (who doesn't?), the closing scene of that opera will startle you, especially in the Gergiev performance. Besides, no thorough study of Russian Nationalism can avoid opera.


Thank you very much for your recommendation. I have listened to both Glinka operas and loved them. It is certainly difficult to get an idea of Russian music of the second half of the 19th century without listening to these works. It's a pity that recordings are not plentiful, especially in quality video.


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

The Mighty Five are a must! They were five prominent 19th-century Russian composers who worked together to create a distinct national style of classical music: Mily Balakirev (the leader), César Cui, Modest Mussorgsky, Alexander Borodin, and Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. Although Cui is an odd man out. He championed Russian music but his own music didn't sound very Russian.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't think Tchaikovsky was in the place to criticize Rimsky or Borodin. He adopted the cheese of the West instead of all the technique, his blasting, vanilla melodies and harmonies. Rimsky, Borodin and Tchaikovsky stayed equally true to Russia with high-level beauty, pulse and harmony.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Boris is a seminal work, and in the Rimsky-Korsakov version you get the absolute peak of Russian Nationalism: Mussorgsky's incredible lyricism and R-Ks stunning orchestration. I've tried but the Mussorgsky original version (as recorded by Gergiev) take a back seat to Rimsky-Korsakov's version. Karajan, Cluytens, Abbado -- they're all great.
> 
> In some ways, Tchaikovsky got closer to the Nationalists in his operas. I love Queen of Spades, Eugen Onegan, The Enchantress. Did anyone else watch the Berlin Philharmonic do Mazeppa today? Brilliant!


I disagree. R-K butchered it, literally, cutting out measures because his four-square brain couldn't deal with the metric irregularities. What he did to the prologue I consider disgraceful.

When Gergiev performed Mazzepa with the Met, probably the first performance since the 19thc, the parts he sent had never been proofread. There were hundreds of errors, some of them leaving out whole harmonic changes. He complained about the corrected parts but is probably using them now - one hopes.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Yes, such as via the orchestral piece '_Kamarinskaya_':
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamarinskaya


I find Glinka too old-school as regards his instrumental music generally though, and much prefer names like Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, R-Korsakov, some Balakirev, Lyapunov, Lyadov, Glazunov, Medtner, Rachmaninov etc.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I like Putin's version.

I think he has a Judo Dan grade, and as such gets my vote


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