# Hans von Bulow



## JohannesBrahms

I have been scouring the internet looking for information about Hans von Bulow. I don't know why, but I am interested in him and how he sounded as a pianist. All I can find is that he studied under Liszt. Does anyone know anything?


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## moody

von Bulow first met Liszt as a young man in Weimar in 1849, he found him "quite a perfect man,admirable and outstanding".
In 1850 he saw Liszt conduct "Lohengrin" and asked him to give him lessons.He was in fact Liszt's first great pupil.
By 1853 he was ready for concerts and also married Liszt's daughter, Cosima.She stayed with him for twelve years and then left him for Wagner.
Through his life he cut a swathe through Europe and America terrifying and amazing people with his intellect,his temper and his sarcasm.
As a teacher he was a holy terror.
He insulted conductors,orchestras and audiences.
von Bulows playing was clear,analyticaly precise and probably cold.


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## ScipioAfricanus

he was a lowlife who couldn't stand up to Wagner for taking away his wife. And not only did he not stand up to Wagner, he saved his most venomous vitriol for Bruckner, because "he didn't like Bruckner's music". Von Bulow and Hanslick were the biggest lowlives in the musical scene at the end of the 19th century, and Brahms lived vicariously through them, since they did his dirty slanderous deeds against Bruckner for him.

Aside from that he is noted for premiering Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto, and Wagner's Meistersinger.


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## Mahlerian

He also famously said, upon hearing the first movement of Mahler's Second Symphony played at the piano by the composer (after uncovering his ears) that it made Tristan sound like a Haydn symphony...


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## JohannesBrahms

Thank you for the information, y'all.


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## Ukko

ScipioAfricanus said:


> he was a lowlife who couldn't stand up to Wagner for taking away his wife. And not only did he not stand up to Wagner, he saved his most venomous vitriol for Bruckner, because "he didn't like Bruckner's music". Von Bulow and Hanslick were the biggest lowlives in the musical scene at the end of the 19th century, and Brahms lived vicariously through them, since they did his dirty slanderous deeds against Bruckner for him.
> 
> Aside from that he is noted for premiering Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto, and Wagner's Meistersinger.


Near as I can tell, Cosima went willingly; if she were my wife I'd be glad to see her go. Maybe throw a party.


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## JohannesBrahms

Hilltroll72 said:


> Near as I can tell, Cosima went willingly; if she were my wife I'd be glad to see her go. Maybe throw a party.


I'm with you there, brother.


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## Guest

JohannesBrahms said:


> I have been scouring the internet looking for information about Hans von Bulow. I don't know why, but I am interested in him and how he sounded as a pianist. All I can find is that he studied under Liszt. Does anyone know anything?


You've been scouring the Internet looking for info on Hans von Bulow and *all* you have come up with is that he studied under Franz? Do you have gas-driven browser or what?


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## Guest

ScipioAfricanus said:


> he was a lowlife who couldn't stand up to Wagner for taking away his wife. And not only did he not stand up to Wagner, he saved his most venomous vitriol for Bruckner, because "he didn't like Bruckner's music". Von Bulow and Hanslick were the biggest lowlives in the musical scene at the end of the 19th century, and Brahms lived vicariously through them, since they did his dirty slanderous deeds against Bruckner for him.
> 
> Aside from that he is noted for premiering Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto, and Wagner's Meistersinger.


I think he was extremely thankful to Wagner for doing him a favour. Still, I do agree that he should have popped one on RW's snout for the sake of form, then hand him a cheque 'behind the scenes'. What a ghastly women Cosima was.


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## JohannesBrahms

TalkingHead said:


> You've been scouring the Internet looking for info on Hans von Bulow and *all* you have come up with is that he studied under Franz? Do you have gas-driven browser or what?


I should have clarified myself. I learned a lot about his life. I was looking for how he sounded as a pianist. The only thing I came up with was that he studied with Liszt.


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## SiegendesLicht

TalkingHead said:


> I think he was extremely thankful to Wagner for doing him a favour. Still, I do agree that he should have popped one on RW's snout for the sake of form, then hand him a cheque 'behind the scenes'. What a ghastly women Cosima was.


Could you please enlighten me? What was so ghastly about her?


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## Guest

I think a search by Herr von Google (or similar) will enlighten you. If not, check with other - more seasoned - luminaries on this forum. If they disappoint you, come back to me.


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## ahammel

SiegendesLicht said:


> Could you please enlighten me? What was so ghastly about her?


She did not exactly cover herself in glory during her tenure running the Bayreuth festival following Richard's death.

Here are a few details.


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## moody

JohannesBrahms said:


> I should have clarified myself. I learned a lot about his life. I was looking for how he sounded as a pianist. The only thing I came up with was that he studied with Liszt.


I mentioned a description of his playing in my post above.
There is a piano roll recording of him playing one of his own polkas on You Tube.
The Edison company did record him but the recordings have not been found.


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## JohannesBrahms

moody said:


> I mentioned a description of his playing in my post above.
> There is a piano roll recording of him playing one of his own polkas on You Tube.
> The Edison company did record him but the recordings have not been found.


Thank you. I had no idea he was recorded. Its too bad they haven't found the recordings. If they did, there is a good chance they would sound like the recording of Brahms.


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## Guest

SiegendesLicht said:


> Could you please enlighten me? What was so ghastly about her?


Well, as Ahammel has pointed out, you coud read the link he has posted to an article. Here is a quote from it:
_It was during this remaining period of her life that Cosima's toxic mixture of quasi-religious devotion, self-definition through her husband's accomplishments, virulent judgmentalism, implacable anti-Semitism, and megalomaniac confidence all combined to cause irreparable harm to Wagner's artistic legacy, and to lay the groundwork for the rise of right-wing German nationalism.
_


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## Ukko

JohannesBrahms said:


> Thank you. I had no idea he was recorded. Its too bad they haven't found the recordings. If they did, there is a good chance they would sound like the recording of Brahms.


There is a chance for better sound, as they were (?) made later. Maybe _bigshot_ has an opinion? The documentary value of the piano roll depends to some extent on which outfit made it, and how the analog or digital recording was created.


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## DavidA

Von Bulow was also the dedicatee of Liszt's Hungarian Fantasia in addition to the Tchaikovsky 1

A great pity he didn't give Wagner one for pinching his wife. although, as has been said, he may have been glad to get shot of her.
In fact it is a wonder that Wagner didn't suffer some serious physical assault with his carrying on with other people's wives. But the same might be said of his philandering father-in-law!

Just to say another book, The Wagner Clan, by Jonathan Carr, shows how dysfunctional the whole family was (is). Well worth a read.


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## PetrB

moody said:


> I mentioned a description of his playing in my post above.
> There is a piano roll recording of him playing one of his own polkas on You Tube.
> The Edison company did record him but the recordings have not been found.


_A polka_ -- thank goodness it was not found!


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## PetrB

Hilltroll72 said:


> There is a chance for better sound, as they were (?) made later. Maybe _bigshot_ has an opinion? The documentary value of the piano roll depends to some extent on which outfit made it, and how the analog or digital recording was created.


Unless it was a very early generation player with the capacities of the later duo-art mechanisms, that roll might sound midi flat-line dead.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> Unless it was a very early generation player with the capacities of the later duo-art mechanisms, that roll might sound midi flat-line dead.


The three main types are ,the Welte Mignon,the Ampico and the Duo art. They all are capable of reproducing exactly what the pianist played with every nuance. But they are fairly complicated and must be set up only be experts.
von Bulow recorded a Chopin mazurka in 1888 at the Edison studio onto a wax cylinder---when he heard it he promptly passed out. This was where the Brahms recording was made but also please remember that von Bulow died in 1894 for lands sakes ---so don't expect much !!


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## Notung

"In the beginning, there was rhythm."-Bulow

"Myerbeer's worst opera"-Bulow, on Wagner's _Rienzi_


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## Il_Penseroso

moody said:


> von Bulow recorded a Chopin mazurka in 1888 at the Edison studio onto a wax cylinder---when he heard it he promptly passed out. This was where the Brahms recording was made but also please remember that von Bulow died in 1894 for lands sakes ---so don't expect much !!


There are still rumors about Anton Rubinstein, but never heard about von Bülow's wax cylinder recording... so which Mazurka and also the source please?


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## moody

Il_Penseroso said:


> There are still rumors about Anton Rubinstein, but never heard about von Bülow's wax cylinder recording... so which Mazurka and also the source please?


Ward Marston:'The Edison Legacy" I imagine that you have the same facilities as I have to investigate these matters.


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## Il_Penseroso

moody said:


> Ward Marston:'The Edison Legacy"


Ok, thanks...



> I imagine that you have the same facilities as I have to investigate these matters.


Yes sir, and no hint needed... anyhow thanks again for answering.


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## KateSmith

I have never heard about him!


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## Фильм Любовник

ScipioAfricanus said:


> he was a lowlife who couldn't stand up to Wagner for taking away his wife. And not only did he not stand up to Wagner...


Almost all your comments about von Bülow and Wagner are patently false–please stop parading your ignorance before everyone here as it seems like common trolling. Bülow was considered by the highest echelon of musicians (F. Liszt, R. Wagner, J. Brahms, R. Strauss, J. Sibelius, just to name a few) to be the greatest conductor of his day and one of the greatest pianists of his time. Richard Wagner wrote, after attending the premiere performance of _Die Meistersinger_, which had been prepared and conducted by Bülow, that it "...was the best that has ever been given of any of my works."


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## Фильм Любовник

Il_Penseroso said:


> There are still rumors about Anton Rubinstein, but never heard about von Bülow's wax cylinder recording... so which Mazurka and also the source please?


There is no absolute proof, but this does give every appearance of it being a recording of Anton Rubinstein


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