# Messiaen, where next?



## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

I have just started exploring Olivier Messiaen. I only have the Andre Previn CD of Turangalîla-Symphonie and Quatuor pour la fin du temps, and love it, and the Roger Muraro Myung-Whun Chung Quatuor pour la fin du temps, which is interesting but will take a bit more time to get into.

Now I have the "greatest hits" I wanted to get a bit more. If anyone can recommend some other key works or specific performances they enjoy that would be wonderful.

I was thinking of getting the Messiaen: Orchestral Works (DG Collectors Edition) 10 CD box set for a broad overview of some key works. Any thoughts on this would be good as well.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I downloaded this box set from Apple Music last night.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

You have not heard the Messiaen "Greatest hits" if You have not explored his organ and vocal works! I recommend Oliver Latry for the former and fx. Annika Skoglund in the "Harawi". As You suggest Yourself, getting the DG orchestral works edition will help You explore many of the good (maybe better then the Turangalila) Messiaen orchestral works!

/ptr


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Rather than delve near enough exclusively into the orchestral works at this early stage I think you may want to try some of the keyboard and vocal works before too long as they are as much central to Messiaen's output as anything else. Albert and Ptr have mentioned organ and vocal and I would add piano, too - sample the following works on youtube or whatever and tell us what you think.

Vocal/piano - Harawi or Chants de terre et de ciel
Organ - La nativite du Seigneur or Livre d'orgue
Piano - Canteyodjaya or some selections from Catalogue d'oiseaux


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

FPwtc said:


> I have just started exploring Olivier Messiaen. I only have the Andre Previn CD of Turangalîla-Symphonie and Quatuor pour la fin du temps, and love it, and the Roger Muraro Myung-Whun Chung Quatuor pour la fin du temps, which is interesting but will take a bit more time to get into.
> 
> Now I have the "greatest hits" I wanted to get a bit more. If anyone can recommend some other key works or specific performances they enjoy that would be wonderful.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the Messiaen: Orchestral Works (DG Collectors Edition) 10 CD box set for a broad overview of some key works. Any thoughts on this would be good as well.


4 Etudes de rhythm, try Paul Jacobs.

I'll be interested to hear what the Messiaen people make of St Francois.

Can you read French? if so there's a good book on Messiaen which I can put you on to.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2015)

My favorite work by Messiaen has always been Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jesus. I enjoy the Steven Osborne recording on Hyperion.


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

thanks for these, I will add to my list!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> I'll be interested to hear what the Messiaen people make of St Francois.


I love it, as long as I'm in the right state of mind and don't have anything else pressing to occupy me.

For the OP, my introduction to Messiaen was _Trois Petites Liturgies Pour la Presence Divine_ for women's choir, ondes martenot, piano, strings, and percussion, and it remains a favorite among his works to this day.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I simply love Messiaen.

My recommendation would be listening to "Des canyons aux étoiles".


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Some Messiaen CDs I enjoy.










This one is a posthumous release with a good variety of music. Organ, chamber, piano, etc...










This CD features the work Mahlerian mentioned.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2015)

For a broad overview:

Organ: La Nativite Du Seigneur
Piano: Vingt Regards Sur L'Enfant-Jesus
Vocal: Harawi
Choral: Trois Petites Liturgies Pour La Presence Divine
Orchestral: Des Canyons Aux Etoiles
Opera: St. Francois

Add these 6 works to your Turangalila and Quatuor and it should be a bit safer to say you've experienced Messiaen. But hey, don't stop there!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I love it, as long as I'm in the right state of mind and don't have anything else pressing to occupy me.
> 
> For the OP, my introduction to Messiaen was _Trois Petites Liturgies Pour la Presence Divine_ for women's choir, ondes martenot, piano, strings, and percussion, and it remains a favorite among his works to this day.


The reason I asked about St François is that a few months ago I heard the live recording on Orfeo, Zagrosek conducting and FiDi singing, and I enjoyed it much more than I ever had done before. I'd go and see it if a decent production turned up in London or Paris.

Anyway, because of this little thread I went off and listen to some late organ music, and was struck by the terrifying brutality of it. What vision of God did he have? No still small voice for him.

Another piece that I'd recommend to the OP is the lovely little liturgical piece called O Sacrum Convivium.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Anyway, because of this little thread I went off and listen to some late organ music, and was struck by the terrifying brutality of it. What vision of God did he have? No still small voice for him.


I often wonder about this kind of thing. Same goes for Penderecki. I think we must assume that they merely saw their music as J.S. Bach saw his own. All music may glorify God, not just the passive, pretty stuff.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> Anyway, because of this little thread I went off and listen to some late organ music, and was struck by the terrifying brutality of it. What vision of God did he have? No still small voice for him.


Truly, Messiaen's was (thankfully) not the God of white happy bearded Jesus kitsch. There was a mystical bent to his outlook rather than a blandly pious one, and mystical visions can be awesome (in the original sense of instilling awe).


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

A while back I picked up the 32 CD "OLIVIER MESSIAEN Complete Edition" box set on Deutsche Grammophon -- CD ADD / DDD 0289 480 1333 3 GB 32.









See track list of the discs here: http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/4801333

I have never been a big fan of Messiaen and for years had collected only a handful of Messiaen discs (including three versions of the _Quatuor pour la fin du temps_, the one Messiaen work I found inescapable). But because the composer was a major player in contemporary music, and because I did not know much of his music (though what I had generally heard I generally found uninteresting, aside from the stunning _Quatuor._...), I decided to invest in the DG box set when it was released. And the price was reasonable.

My rationale was that I could then sample much more of Messiaen's music and perhaps find other pieces among his oeuvre that I found as interesting as I find the _Quatuor pour la fin du temps_. Alas -- that didn't happen.

I admit that of modern music composers, I turn to Messiaen perhaps least of all the major players, though on occasion I will tap back into the box set and try something out. I find Messiaen is best listened to when in a particular "mood", though that "mood" seldom strikes me. I remain a great fan of contemporary music, and I can understand and even "appreciate" what Messiaen does, but the music is just not to my preference. There are so many other composers to whom I'll turn first.

That said, I still recommend the box set to you if you have found several works of Messiaen to your liking. The box set will be an investment, sure. But by having a complete collection of the composer's music, you can find pieces that really appeal to you and then seek out additional interpretations of the work, as I have done by adding multiple interpretations of _Quatuor pour la fin du temps _to my collection. I currently have about a half dozen. (Compare this to works I truly enjoy, such as Schubert's _Winterreise_, Bach's _Brandenburg Concerti_, or Beethoven's Fifth, all of which I have several dozen versions each.) If you count yourself a fan of Messiaen, that's okay. By investing in the box set, you may actually save money in the long run because that whole box of 32 discs (which will currently run you about $100 at AMAZON for a used set) can cost you a lot less than say picking up a half dozen CDs at full price.

That's my recommendation, anyhow.

I've become interested now in cracking back into that Messiaen box and exploring further, but I'll have to wait till after the Fourth of July, since I traditionally dedicate this day to listening to American music such as that of Don Gillis, to whom I am currently listening as I type this.

But maybe on July 5th.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> A while back I picked up the 32 CD "OLIVIER MESSIAEN Complete Edition" box set on Deutsche Grammophon -- CD ADD / DDD 0289 480 1333 3 GB 32.
> 
> View attachment 71846
> 
> ...


OMG I wish that this were on iTunes. I really need it.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

To all the other excellent suggestions I'd add another early work, Visions de l’Amen for two pianos.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

DrMike said:


> My favorite work by Messiaen has always been Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jesus. I enjoy the Steven Osborne recording on Hyperion.


I second this selection and interpretation. Stunning cycle of piano pieces. Can be appreciated individually and as a whole. Osborne is brilliant. Must-have recording in my listening world.

Ps just yesterday I saw the 18 disk Messiaen Edition new on eBay for $15. An absolute steal. May still be there. This is like $30 cheaper than all other competitive prices on eBay and Amazon marketplace.

Pps its still there and it's $14.50 with no shipping costs.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm not a Messiaen fan, really, but I do like _L'Ascension_, a supremely colourful "medium length" work for the orchestra, and I recommend it wholeheartedly.


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## Sina (Aug 3, 2012)

With Boulez on Deutsche Grammophon I'm in love:
http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4534782
http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4458272


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Messiaen's organ works are some of the most profound things from the 20th century!


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

My favourites are:

1- *Chronochromie*. Its odd, complex, varied, doesn't give a damn, the high peak of his technique.

2 - *Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum* because of its many beautiful moments, specially the quiet bits.

3 - *L'Ascension*. A bit of Pelleas, a bit of Bartók, pinch of Boris Godunov and Stravisnky here and there somehow works. The least odd of the lot.


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> 4 Etudes de rhythm, try Paul Jacobs.
> 
> I'll be interested to hear what the Messiaen people make of St Francois.
> 
> Can you read French? if so there's a good book on Messiaen which I can put you on to.


I don't but maybe this is a good way to make me learn! My wife does so she can read it to me.....


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> A while back I picked up the 32 CD "OLIVIER MESSIAEN Complete Edition" box set on Deutsche Grammophon -- CD ADD / DDD 0289 480 1333 3 GB 32.
> 
> View attachment 71846
> 
> ...


I better start saving some money!


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## MessiaenIsGod (Mar 25, 2010)

FPwtc said:


> I have just started exploring Olivier Messiaen. I only have the Andre Previn CD of Turangalîla-Symphonie and Quatuor pour la fin du temps, and love it, and the Roger Muraro Myung-Whun Chung Quatuor pour la fin du temps, which is interesting but will take a bit more time to get into.
> 
> Now I have the "greatest hits" I wanted to get a bit more. If anyone can recommend some other key works or specific performances they enjoy that would be wonderful.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the Messiaen: Orchestral Works (DG Collectors Edition) 10 CD box set for a broad overview of some key works. Any thoughts on this would be good as well.


 I'm rather shocked no one has mentioned "La Transfiguration De Notre Seigneur Jesus Christ", it's a towering piece for orchestra and choir and I think it's one of the greatest things he ever wrote, and I'm a total Messiaen-fanatic and have all his stuff.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Luca Francesconi*:"_Isole_" for Piano & orchestra (1992).

This guy seems brilliant and I think he´s of interest to people fascinated by Messiaen too.

The piece has a wow-effect for me, and at least some Messiaen-like traits in the marked contrasts between piano, percussion & winds (works such as "_Des Canyons _...", "_Turangalila_" and "_7 Haiku_" come to mind, when I hear this piece), but stylistically he moves around quite a bit ...


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