# The Paradox of Zinka Milanov



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Over the years I have acquired a deep love of the Yugoslavian mid century dramatic soprano Zinka Milanov. They play her often on Sirius MetOpera Radio in complete recordings from the Sat. matinee broadcasts of the past. She comes closer to the miracle of Ponselle's voice than any other singer in this repertoire. I think she even trumps Price as a Verdian soprano, particularly with the thrust at the top which eluded Leontyne ( gorgeous though Price's voice was at the top). Nevertheless, there are times when Zinka's voice becomes very nasal and resembles the sound of a parrot IMHO. I notice this more usually in her later recordings from the Met. Does anyone else notice these paradoxes in the sound of her normally ravishing instrument.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Unfortunately most of her studio recordings were made closer to the end of her career and missed her peaked by a few years. She as also roughly 16-17 years older than Tebaldi and Callas. She was already kind of in retirement in late 1940's and Bing brought her back to the Met in 1950's. Her Trovatore recording in 1952 still captured her at her prime but her Aida's in 1955 already showed quite a bit of deterioration. Too bad her Verdi's Requeim with Toscanini had such a poor sound. 
At her best, she was hard to beat, I think.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

suteetat said:


> Unfortunately most of her studio recordings were made closer to the end of her career and missed her peaked by a few years. She as also roughly 16-17 years older than Tebaldi and Callas. She was already kind of in retirement in late 1940's and Bing brought her back to the Met in 1950's. Her Trovatore recording in 1952 still captured her at her prime but her Aida's in 1955 already showed quite a bit of deterioration. Too bad her Verdi's Requeim with Toscanini had such a poor sound.
> At her best, she was hard to beat, I think.


Thanks! I read somewhere that she had pitch problems in the 40's that got better in the 50's and that the early to mid 50's was actually her peak. Just quoting from memory. She was a vocal miracle.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

suteetat said:


> Unfortunately most of her studio recordings were made closer to the end of her career and missed her peaked by a few years. She as also roughly 16-17 years older than Tebaldi and Callas. She was already kind of in retirement in late 1940's and Bing brought her back to the Met in 1950's. Her Trovatore recording in 1952 still captured her at her prime but her Aida's in 1955 already showed quite a bit of deterioration. Too bad her Verdi's Requeim with Toscanini had such a poor sound.
> At her best, she was hard to beat, I think.


Thanks! I read somewhere that she had pitch problems in the 40's that got better in the 50's and that the early to mid 50's was actually her peak. Just quoting from memory. She was a vocal miracle.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Over the years I have acquired a deep love of the Yugoslavian mid century dramatic soprano Zinka Milanov. They play her often on Sirius MetOpera Radio in complete recordings from the Sat. matinee broadcasts of the past. She comes closer to the miracle of Ponselle's voice than any other singer in this repertoire. I think she even trumps Price as a Verdian soprano, particularly with the thrust at the top which eluded Leontyne ( gorgeous though Price's voice was at the top). Nevertheless, there are times when Zinka's voice becomes very nasal and resembles the sound of a parrot IMHO. I notice this more usually in her later recordings from the Met. Does anyone else notice these paradoxes in the sound of her normally ravishing instrument.


I've been listening to her more often lately and to be honest I'm falling in love. She sounds to me like what Ponselle would have been if she was born later. She had the best clarity of tone and vowels rivaled only by Tebaldi and that "nasal" sound is very similar to Ponselle. She has better acuti and a slightly more matronly timbre than both. But her singing is some of the finest I've heard in that repertoire.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Her Aida with Jussi Bjoering and Boris Christoff was my first opera recording, so I'm still fond of it. Of course, I was twelve and didn't know anything.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

I suggest her Norma from 1944 at the Met with Tourel as Adalgisa, Jagel as Pollione, and Sodero conducting. It is actually quite credible and her sound is quite impressive. True, she is not Sutherland or Callas with some trouble turning the corners of coloratura but she has a "don't mess around with me" quality which is quite impressive. I actually I like her better than Cigna in the role. There are some Gioconda's from these years which are good. However, Callas' 1952 "ruined" the opera for me as I find there's no more intense Gioconda than hers.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

I think she's excellent, but I know many dislike the sound of her voice. You're right that she has some sour notes increasingly in her 50s recordings but as those mostly don't happen in her big arias, they don't really prevent me from enjoying her performances even rather later in her career. 

In addition to the recordings already mentioned, there's also an excellent Ballo with Bjorling, Castagna, and Alexander Sved from 1940 on Pristine that's quite good. It's also in Sony's Met box, but I'm not sure of the sound quality on that one--the Pristine is one of their typically good restorations of 1940s Met performances.

I've read the same thing about how her peak was really the 50s and not the 40s, but she sounds great in all the 40s recordings I have with her (1940 and 1944 Ballo and the 1940 Toscanini Requiem). My collection of her isn't that complete though, so perhaps I've just lucked into the good ones.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've never been a fan of Milanov since hearing her in the duets on the Bjorling duets disc. She's never done it for me in any of the recordings I've heard her in. Her voice sounds like a wall of sound that lacks flexibility and expressiveness to my ear. However, it's worthwhile my giving her a go again.

What would you consider her greatest recording that shows the 'Ponselle like' qualities of her voice?

(I have the live Ballo from 1940, should I give that another listen?)

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've never been a fan of Milanov since hearing her in the duets on the Bjorling duets disc. She's never done it for me in any of the recordings I've heard her in. Her voice sounds like a wall of sound that lacks flexibility and expressiveness to my ear. However, it's worthwhile my giving her a go again.
> 
> What would you consider her greatest recording that shows the 'Ponselle like' qualities of her voice?
> 
> ...


https://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Trovat...usic&sprefix=milanov+il+tr,popular,211&sr=1-3 I have this Trovatore with Warren and it is marvelous. Mono. She was born to sing this. From 1952 and has legendary status. 



. Here is D'amore .... on Youtube from this.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Trovat...usic&sprefix=milanov+il+tr,popular,211&sr=1-3 I have this Trovatore with Warren and it is marvelous. Mono. She was born to sing this. From 1952 and has legendary status.
> 
> 
> 
> . Here is D'amore .... on Youtube from this.


It's a shame, I can't find the complete recording on YouTube.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> It's a shame, I can't find the complete recording on YouTube.
> 
> N.






 From a Met matinee 6 years before. Those tend to have great sound.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Here's a sample of Zinka in her early 30s from a 1938 D'amor sull'ali rosee I found while poking around on youtube:


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Previously I've found Milanov's last recital with RCA interesting. It is probably the best recording we have of her voice in terms of sound engineering: it's beautifully clear and detailed stereo given the period. As you'd imagine, she inevitably sounds mature:






I enjoyed hearing her in close-up all the same since you get a better idea of the timbre and focus of her voice. I try to keep this aural impression in mind when listening to her various recordings when she was at her peak.

For Milanov at her peak there was a Gioconda broadcast with Martinelli and Panizza which was well-cast. Trovatore with Bjorling, Warren and Cellini is also a standout


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Revitalized Classics said:


> For Milanov at her peak there was a Gioconda broadcast with Martinelli and Panizza which was well-cast. Trovatore with Bjorling, Warren and Cellini is also a standout


That Gioconda from 1939 is magnificent with Martinelli, Castagna. There's another one from 1946 with Tucker, Stevens and Warren which is also quite exciting. I am also partial to the late (1957) Tosca with Bjoerling and Warren but that is *late Milanov* and only for the converted.

Does anyone know if her (also late) Decca Gioconda with Di Stefano and Warren is available somewhere?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

VitellioScarpia said:


> That Gioconda from 1939 is magnificent with Martinelli, Castagna. There's another one from 1946 with Tucker, Stevens and Warren which is also quite exciting. I am also partial to the late (1957) Tosca with Bjoerling and Warren but that is *late Milanov* and only for the converted.
> 
> Does anyone know if her (also late) Decca Gioconda with Di Stefano and Warren is available somewhere?


It is interesting that this thread died 7 years ago and has been reborn. I've heard a Suicidio from that early period and she rocks... as it were.The low notes are amazing and go with the rest of the voice.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is interesting that this thread died 7 years ago and has been reborn. I've heard a Suicidio from that early period and she rocks... as it were.The low notes are amazing and go with the rest of the voice.


LOL... Life can be so much fun because it is so unexpected (I am sure that you probably know who am I quoting here...)

BTW, I am with you on loving a great, musical chest voice. Milanov could use hers magnificently.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

I love this video and the quotes in the description from Ponselle, Toscanini, Callas etc...


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Tuoksu said:


> I love this video and the quotes in the description from Ponselle, Toscanini, Callas etc...


There's a funny story about Milanov as told by Ronaldo Giaiotti. Giaiotti was in NY with Milanov after her retirement and some Milanov fans listening to some of her records. Milanov was on a rocking chair quietly rocking while the others were going about her high notes not being emitted by anyone else. Then, they were talking about how powerful and wonderful her low notes were and nowhere else to be found. Milanov still rocking asked: "And the middle?"


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

VitellioScarpia said:


> There's a funny story about Milanov as told by Ronaldo Giaiotti. Giaiotti was in NY with Milanov after her retirement and some Milanov fans listening to some of her records. Milanov was on a rocking chair quietly rocking while the others were going about her high notes not being emitted by anyone else. Then, they were talking about how powerful and wonderful her low notes were and nowhere else to be found. Milanov still rocking asked: "And the middle?"


You remind of another funny story. I read when Nilsson started singing Aida at the Met, a role that belonged to Milanov at the time, the latter was "jealous" and after one performance she "hijacked" a Rolls Royce that was for Birgit and said "If Madame Nilsson takes my roles, I must take her Rolls." 
That was a very petty/childish move, to be honest.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tuoksu said:


> You remind of another funny story. I read when Nilsson started singing Aida at the Met, a role that belonged to Milanov at the time, the latter was "jealous" and after one performance she "hijacked" a Rolls Royce that was for Birgit and said "If Madame Nilsson takes my roles, I must take her Rolls."
> That was a very petty/childish move, to be honest.


I may have to buy her bio as i want to do a Toastmaster speech on her and include some of her witticisms.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Previously I've found Milanov's last recital with RCA interesting. It is probably the best recording we have of her voice in terms of sound engineering: it's beautifully clear and detailed stereo given the period. As you'd imagine, she inevitably sounds mature:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I listened to the Rusalka and Otello arias. Whilst recorded when she was past her best (although I didn't notice vocal problems). Her voice sounds to me somewhat of a cross between Tebaldi's and Nilsson's. It doesn't seem quite as big as Nilsson's, but has something of her metalic edge and her way of singing above the vowel. Milanov's voice is also warmer than Nilsson's and hence there being something akin to Tebaldi's beautiful tone. Another reason why she reminds me of Tebaldi is because despite solid technique, taste and musicianship she has a cold, inexpressive delivery that leaves me emotionally disconnected to her art.

I must look out for that studio Trovatore and then some live performances to see if she gave more emotionally live.

N.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

The Conte said:


> Thanks for this. I listened to the Rusalka and Otello arias. Whilst recorded when she was past her best (although I didn't notice vocal problems). Her voice sounds to me somewhat of a cross between Tebaldi's and Nilsson's. It doesn't seem quite as big as Nilsson's, but has something of her metalic edge and her way of singing above the vowel. Milanov's voice is also warmer than Nilsson's and hence there being something akin to Tebaldi's beautiful tone. Another reason why she reminds me of Tebaldi is because despite solid technique, taste and musicianship she has a cold, inexpressive delivery that leaves me emotionally disconnected to her art.
> 
> I must look out for that studio Trovatore and then some live performances to see if she gave more emotionally live.
> 
> N.


Tebaldi sometimes did not articulate text well and she could lack impetus which I received as a lack of engagement, flaccid singing. As a comparison, Farrell never gave that impression even though she was sparing of effects, but her singing was always engaged.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I suspect her somewhat nasal placement is derived from being Slavic. I have heard a number of middle Europeans talk and their speaking voices are often with a nasal placement. I have heard some similarities of her voice to Nilsson's, because of the resonant focus.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

The Conte said:


> Thanks for this. I listened to the Rusalka and Otello arias. Whilst recorded when she was past her best (although I didn't notice vocal problems). Her voice sounds to me somewhat of a cross between Tebaldi's and Nilsson's. It doesn't seem quite as big as Nilsson's, but has something of her metalic edge and her way of singing above the vowel. Milanov's voice is also warmer than Nilsson's and hence there being something akin to Tebaldi's beautiful tone. Another reason why she reminds me of Tebaldi is because despite solid technique, taste and musicianship she has a cold, inexpressive delivery that leaves me emotionally disconnected to her art.
> 
> I must look out for that studio Trovatore and then some live performances to see if she gave more emotionally live.
> 
> N.


There was a soprano called Daniza Ilitsch who could sound very like Milanov on record: I find comparing them is instructive as I tend to find Ilitsch the slightly more interesting and emotive singer.

*Cavalleria*
Milanov




Ilitsch





*Ballo in Maschera*
Milanov




Ilitsch


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