# The most epic symphonies?



## Dedalus

As the title says, what do you think the most epic symphonies are? I'm a pretty new classical listener, but so far I absolutely love Mahler's epic symphonies with great sublime finishes, or even anticlimaxes, yet somehow still epic all the same. I really love this kind of thing. Are there any other really epic symphonies/composers that give a similar epic, spiritual, uplifting or even depressing, but in any case moving. I'm a new listener, so I realize this is very subjective, and what moves one person might not move another, but I hope maybe people can get the "je ne sais quoi" that I'm driving at.


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## Muddy

I highly recommend Bruckner's 8th. The Adagio is for the ages! Have you listened to Beethoven, or did you jump straight for Mahler? Beethoven's symphonies are gloriously epic. The 3rd and the 9th should suit you just fine.


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## Dedalus

Funny you should mention both of those. I have in fact listened to both, and I particularly like Bruckner's 8th. That's the only Bruckner symphony I'm familiar with. I like it, but it almost seems slightly repetitive. Mahler's 2nd repeats certain parts, but I think less often, and with more variation. Bruckner's 8th seems like each movement almost has a chorus like in pop music that it goes back to. Man those choruses are catchy and brilliant sounding, but it keeps coming back to them, and I can't notice that much difference between them. This is coming from a fairly novice classical listener, though.

Beethoven I have listened to, and not disliked, but he hasn't gripped me so much. Maybe I should listen to him a bit more, I don't know. Eroica and the 9th are so well spoken of, but I just don't quite get the hubbub. Probably just inexperience talking.


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## Xaltotun

You might like Franz Schmidt's symphony 4 and Richard Strauss's Alpine Symphony.


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## elgar's ghost

Gliere's symphony no. 3 might be what you are looking for - lavish doesn't even begin to describe it. Try and listen to Harold Farberman's recording with the Royal Philharmonic if you can spotify it or something - it's a 90+ minute full-length monster as opposed to many other recordings where there are cuts which often reduce the length by about 20 minutes.


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## samurai

For "epic", what immediately come to my mind are Nielsen's 4th Symphony ("Inextinguishable"); Mahler's 6th ("Tragic"); Tchaikovsky's 6th ("Pathetique") and Ralph Vaughan Williams' 6th and 7th ("Antarctic"), which I have often thought of as one work directly seguing into the other, much as the Nielsen 4 has no breaks between its movements.
Great topic, BTW. :cheers:


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## Skilmarilion

'Epic' comes in different shapes and sizes, and so I'll suggest Sibelius' 7th.


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## Xaltotun

Skilmarilion said:


> 'Epic' comes in different shapes and sizes, and so I'll suggest Sibelius' 7th.


It sure does! But it seems that this poster is searching for a particular brand. No harm in introducing him to others, though.


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## ptr

Suk's Asrael, Havergal Brian's Gothic First, most of Mahler's, Ive's fourth...

/ptr


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## hpowders

Bruckner's Seventh is epic enough for me.

Sibelius 7 for "pithy epic".


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## Markbridge

Bruckner's Fourth is another great epic symphony, and also very easy to get into. Another Tchaikovsky you might try is his Fourth. Camille Saint-Saëns' Third ("Organ") has a very majestic finale. I might also add Franck's Symphony in D Minor.


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## Itullian

Lief's Saga Symphony


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## Xaltotun

Guys, I get the feeling that Bruckner isn't for him at this point. He seems to aim for a "colourful/kaleidoscopic" style of massiveness, instead of a "monochromatic/architechtural" style.


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## Dedalus

I honestly don't know what is "for me" or not at this point. I appreciate pretty much any and all suggestions though. I don't dislike Bruckner, in fact I really do like the 8th, just, like I said, I thought he used his "hooks" too often in each movement. I'm such a novice listener that I don't know if I have a right to really say such a thing, but hey, it's just my thoughts. The hooks are beautiful, but I don't need to hear them 4 or 5 times exactly the same way. Maybe there is variation between them that I'm not hearing, I don't know. But I saw a suggestion for Bruckner's 4th and 7th, so I'll certainly give both of those at least a couple of listens.


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## DiesIraeCX

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Schubert's 9th Symphony "The Great"! You should definitely give it a listen, epic doesn't begin to describe it.


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## dgee

Maybe try Walton 1 or the Elgar Symphonies? Prokofiev 5 or Shostakovich 5 or 10? They all pack plenty of punch


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## Vaneyes

Off the top of my head, which some say is pointed...LvB 3, 5, 6, 9. Mahler 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9. Brahms 1 - 4. Schumann 1 - 4. Gliere 3. Scriabin 3. Bruckner 4, 5, 7, 8, 9. Saint-Saens 3. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. Franck Symphony in D minor. Elgar 1, 2. RVW 2, 4, 9. Tchaikovsky 6. Dvorak 9. Myaskovsky 6. Lutoslawski 3. Nielsen 4, 5. Sibelius 2, 5, 6. Rachmaninov 2. Roussel 3. Szymanowski 3, 4. Shostakovich 4, 8, 10, 11. Schnittke 2. Walton 1, 2. Hovhaness 50.:tiphat:


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## quack

Karl Weigl - Symphony No. 5 "Apocalyptic Symphony" can't get much more epic than the apocalypse (unless it ends with a whimper.)


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## starthrower

Messiaen's behemoth!


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## techniquest

Some great suggestions so far (not all, but some). For 'epic' symphonies not already mentioned I'd suggest trying Shostakovich 7th "Leningrad"; Khachaturian 2nd; George Lloyd 11th and Tchaikovsky "Manfred". Also, though not strictly a symphony, Rimsky-Korsakov "Scheherazade".


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## fjf

Don't know if epic is the word, but I agree. Schubert's 9th is one of the best orchestral works of all time. If epic means a music that would help you go into battle and die, maybe the overwhelming use of loud wind instruments in Bruckners' symphonies would be better suited...


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## sharik

no doubt Shostakovitch 7th is the most epic ever written.


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## Guest

Beethoven 3, 5, 6, 7, 9
Bruckner 4, 9
Schubert 8, 9
Dvorak 9
Mahler 2, 6, 9
Tchaikovsky 6
Berlioz Symphonie fantastique
And hey - just for kicks - I'll throw in Alkan's Symphony for Solo Piano - Nos. 4-7 of his Op. 39!!!!


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## SixFootScowl

Try Mendelssohn's 4th symphony.


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## omega

Some Nielsen, perhaps? I'm especially thinking of #3, #4, #5.


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## csacks

I would suggest Saint Sean´s 3rd. Its finale is enough to go and win the war. If you are about to broad the spectrum and include some other musical genres, go for Wagner. He is the epitome of Epic.


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## chalkpie

A good chunk of Shosty's symphonies
Sibelius 2, 4, 5, 6, 7
Ives 4
A good chunk of Vaughan Williams symphonies
Kalevi Aho
Messiaen Turangalila
Copland 3
William Schuman
etc etc


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## Rangstrom

No love for Maw Odyssey--the mother of all symphonies.

Schubert 9th (try Klemperer or Knappertsbusch) is indeed epic.


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## GreenMamba

Wendy Mae Chambers' Symphony of the Universe is epic in scope, I suppose. Starts with the Big Bang.

First movement has 100 timpani, last movement a large chorus. In between there's a jazz big band, organ and tape, among other stuff. The music is more or less minimalistic is style, however.


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## hpowders

Surprising that no composer's symphony was ever subtitled "Epic".


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## KenOC

hpowders said:


> Surprising that no composer's symphony was ever subtitled "Epic".


"Epic Symphony" in A-flat minor.


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## hpowders

Awful!! Which epoch does that one come from?


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## Animato

samurai said:


> For "epic", what immediately come to my mind are Nielsen's 4th Symphony ("Inextinguishable"); Mahler's 6th ("Tragic"); Tchaikovsky's 6th ("Pathetique") and Ralph Vaughan Williams' 6th and 7th ("Antarctic"), which I have often thought of as one work directly seguing into the other, much as the Nielsen 4 has no breaks between its movements.
> Great topic, BTW. :cheers:


These would be exactly my recommendations. Thank you Samurai ! I would like to add Richard Strauss' 'LIfe of a hero' (in German: Heldenleben)


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## KenOC

hpowders said:


> Awful!! Which epoch does that one come from?


Truly sad, how few great composers are recognized in their own time. :lol:


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## Dutchman

Schubert's 8th.


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## Tristan

Shostakovich's 7th is so epic, it's almost too much 

I'd also recommend his 11th for "epicness"


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## Art Rock

Off the beaten path: Gliere 3, Zweers 3, Wetz 3.


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## Torkelburger

Hans Werner Henze's Symphony No. 7. Unfortunately, not on youtube so can't post a link.


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## Torkelburger

Peter Mennin's Symphony No. 7 is epic, especially from the second movement onwards.


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## violadude

hpowders said:


> Surprising that no composer's symphony was ever subtitled "Epic".


I think that's a sign that most composers have good taste.


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## SONNET CLV

hpowders said:


> Surprising that no composer's symphony was ever subtitled "Epic".





KenOC said:


> "Epic Symphony" in A-flat minor.





hpowders said:


> Awful!! Which epoch does that one come from?


From the epic epoch, of course.

Some great suggestions here for epic symphonies: Beethoven's Third and Ninth, Berlioz's _Fantastique_, Schubert's Ninth, Franck's D minor, Ives's Fourth, Havergal Brian's _Gothic_, Messiaen's _Turangalila_, the Mahler's, Bruckner's, Shostakovich's, Sibelius's, Nielsen's, Jón Leifs's ... great listens, all. Great epics, all.

There are many others that qualify, for sure: Mozart's _Jupiter_, Schumann's _Rhenish_, Copland's Third, the Brahms's, Magnard's, Pettersson's, Rautavaara's ... so many.

I'll add one favorite: Joly Braga Santos's Symphony No. 4


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

The genre kind of lends itself toward epicosity, I would almost say most symphonies have something epic about them.....but some of the American neo-romantic composers come to mind for me, especially Howard Hanson's symphonies, especially the 3rd (with him conducting), Peter Mennin's 5th, to name a few.


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## PeterPowerPop

elgars ghost said:


> Gliere's symphony no. 3 might be what you are looking for - lavish doesn't even begin to describe it. Try and listen to Harold Farberman's recording with the Royal Philharmonic if you can spotify it or something - it's a 90+ minute full-length monster as opposed to many other recordings where there are cuts which often reduce the length by about 20 minutes.


Here 'tis:

https://play.spotify.com/album/1EvPfOJwSLFSpzoojxgPCl


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## PeterPowerPop

Torkelburger said:


> Hans Werner Henze's Symphony No. 7. Unfortunately, not on youtube so can't post a link.


It's available on Spotify:

https://play.spotify.com/album/06VfJC61fZy8MMsD5SUSag


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## hpowders

The most epic symphony I know is just over 20 minutes long, the great Sibelius Seventh Symphony.


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## elgar's ghost

Good work, PPP - if Daedalus is still around I hope he checks the Gliere out.


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## LouisMasterMusic

How about Bax's Symphony No.1? The end of the first movement is enough to grip you.


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## JACE

Nothing tops Beethoven's Ninth for overwhelming, heaven-storming "epic-ness." That choice may be a bit clichéd -- but, speaking for myself, it's undeniably true.

After that: Mahler's Second and Third.


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## double

Sibelius Symphony No.2, especially the finale. Sometimes I think every epic soundtrack owes its epicness to the finale


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## perempe

JACE said:


> Nothing tops Beethoven's Ninth for overwhelming, heaven-storming "epic-ness." That choice may be a bit clichéd -- but, speaking for myself, it's undeniably true.


I'll hear it on New Year's Day. I have to wait about 3 weeks for the 7th.


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## Queen of the Nerds

Tchaikovsky's Symphony No.1. A DEFINITE must-listen. Especially the second and third movemets.


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## MoonlightSonata

Vaughan Williams, "A Sea Symphony". Very epic, especially the opening.


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## Celloissimo

Nielsen's Symphony No. 4, "The Inextinguishable" comes to mind, but it personally didn't click with me the first few listens. Bruckner's 7th is also pretty damn epic, the Adagio is the most beautiful thing I've heard in my life.


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## musicrom

I would consider Tchaikovsky's 4th and 5th symphonies to be pretty epic. Also Sibelius 2, Franck, etc...


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## aajj

Schubert's 9th, Berlioz's Fantastique, Brahms' 4th and Mahler's 9th are plenty epic for me.


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## Rhombic

Most people have already suggested Bruckner, Beethoven, Mahler and those composers, so I will go for the Russians here.
*Myaskovsky's 6th symphony* is extraordinarily strong and powerful, with a massively well planned orchestration. You'll definitely like this one. *Myaskovsky's 16th symphony* also conveys these feelings... popularly known as the Aviation symphony, I also consider it quite suitable to be epic.
*Lyatoshynsky* also composed quite good symphonies in this aspect, especially his *3rd, 4th and 5th symphonies*.
*Glière's 3rd Symphony* was written in a more Romantic-oriented style, albeit still violent in their approaches to "epicness", so I think that it is also interesting.


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## hpowders

For me the Sibelius Seventh Symphony is ideal. It is epic AND pithy!!


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## Nope

I am going to go for Mahler 6th. Man that hammer is truely epic.


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## Becca

If you want a real epic symphony, go for Sibelius' _Kullervo_ - the only one based on a literary epic, the Finnish _Kalevala_


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## Marschallin Blair

Sibelius' _Kullervo_, _First, Second, Fourth, Fifth_, and _Seventh_

Bruckner's_ Fourth_, _Eighth_, and _Ninth_

Nielsen's _Fourth _and _Fifth_

Shostakovich's_ Seventh_ and_ Eleventh_

Mahler's _First, Second, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth,_ and _Ninth_

(at least the outer movements of) Rachmaninov's _First_

RVW's _First, Second_, and _Seventh_

Dvorak's _Ninth_

Walton's _First_

William Mathias'_ Second_ and _Third_ . . .

Too many to name- and of course I have to stay on topic and not stray into tone poems and operas.


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## Marschallin Blair

LouisMasterMusic said:


> How about Bax's Symphony No.1? The end of the first movement is enough to grip you.


I actually love the self-contained, 'epic-tone-poem'_ second _movement the best, myself._ ;D_


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## Becca

Sir Arthur Bliss - _Colour Symphony_
Sir Granville Bantock - _Pagan Symphony_


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## silentio

I would add Berlioz' _Roméo et Juliette_ and _Grande symphonie funèbre et triomphale_


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU

samurai said:


> For "epic", what immediately come to my mind are Nielsen's 4th Symphony ("Inextinguishable"); Mahler's 6th ("Tragic"); Tchaikovsky's 6th ("Pathetique") and Ralph Vaughan Williams' 6th and 7th ("Antarctic"), which I have often thought of as one work directly seguing into the other, much as the Nielsen 4 has no breaks between its movements.
> Great topic, BTW. :cheers:


I agree to you. What did he mean "epic?" I first felt the most successful and with a tight form. So I select as the peak of the history of symphonies Mahler's 6th. And talking furthermore, the origin is in Haydn's work. Possibly the finale of #101 or the whole four movements structure is #104 named "London."


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## hpowders

The most epic symphony?

The recently discovered Sibelius No. 8.

April Fool!!!


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## pentaquine

Beethoven 5th, Mahler 5th, Tchaikovsky 5 and 6.


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## 20centrfuge

Sibelius 2
Sibelius 5

5 is epic in a different way than Mahler or even Bruckner, but epic, to be sure. I can't recommend these two highly enough.


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## Dedalus

Wow! I made this thread a while ago. I've since explored a good deal more classical, though I still have very much left to explore. There is something strange about seeing my words from 5 months ago. I can tell I didn't even know what I was really asking for.


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## Wunderhorn

In terms of production, scale and performance duration I definitely would nominate Alexander Scriabin's unfinished Magnum Opus which was realised by Alexander Nemtin. I would put it into the category Choral Symphony.
At 2 hours and 40 minutes I'd say this is as 'epic' as it can get.
Musically too, it unleashes a blissful apocalypse on a cosmic scale.


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## joen_cph

Allan Pettersson for example hasn´t been mentioned so far - the 8th. He seems very much off the Talkclassical radar these days.



> Surprising that no composer's symphony was ever subtitled "Epic".


Borodin´s 2nd is sometimes called _Symphonie Epique_, apparently a name created by the music critic Stassow, or even Borodin himself. There are also some very obscure "epic symphonies" by Franco Marsili and Antonio Veretti.


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## EDaddy

Dedalus said:


> Funny you should mention both of those. I have in fact listened to both, and I particularly like Bruckner's 8th. That's the only Bruckner symphony I'm familiar with. I like it, but it almost seems slightly repetitive. Mahler's 2nd repeats certain parts, but I think less often, and with more variation. Bruckner's 8th seems like each movement almost has a chorus like in pop music that it goes back to. Man those choruses are catchy and brilliant sounding, but it keeps coming back to them, and I can't notice that much difference between them. This is coming from a fairly novice classical listener, though.
> 
> Beethoven I have listened to, and not disliked, but he hasn't gripped me so much. Maybe I should listen to him a bit more, I don't know. Eroica and the 9th are so well spoken of, but I just don't quite get the hubbub. Probably just inexperience talking.


I realize I'm responding to your post of nearly a year ago, but if you're still not being barreled over by Beethoven's 3rd and/or 9th, I urge you to check these out if you can:
















These might well provide a whole new perspective. They certainly did for me.


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## DeepR

Wunderhorn said:


> In terms of production, scale and performance duration I definitely would nominate Alexander Scriabin's unfinished Magnum Opus which was realised by Alexander Nemtin. I would put it into the category Choral Symphony.
> At 2 hours and 40 minutes I'd say this is as 'epic' as it can get.
> Musically too, it unleashes a blissful apocalypse on a cosmic scale.


Yes, I recently listened to it again. It's a magnificently wild and over the top work. Worthy on its own, despite the fact that it's obviously more Nemtin than Scriabin since it's only based on chaotic sketches. Apparently some of its themes are directly lifted from those sketches, so that's nice. 
It's probably the coolest story behind any piece of music: For a composer to spend 28 years of his life to realize a barely existing work by another composer, which was in itself an impossible, ridiculous, megalomaniacal, apocalyptic concept. I can't think of any cooler story.


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## Wunderhorn

DeepR said:


> Yes, I recently listened to it again. It's a magnificently wild and over the top work. Worthy on its own, despite the fact that it's obviously more Nemtin than Scriabin since it's only based on chaotic sketches. Apparently some of its themes are directly lifted from those sketches, so that's nice.


Also, to top this story off is when Nemtin finished, it was performed, recorded, and then he died. As if his life purpose was fulfilled and and he could move on.

Given that there were only so many pages with sketches left by Scriabin of course a lot of "Nemtin" had to be added to complete it. But if you listen to some Piano Sonatas and the Prometheus by Scriabin I dare say that Nemtin tuned into the spirit of Scriabin extremely well. Almost like a collaboration between dimensions. In the end I think it does not matter so much, because the music itself is what counts and it is magnificent.
If you have the opportunity to listen to it on a good sound system, in complete darkness, scaringly loud (no neighbors) then it really can unfold its true power - that's how I do it.

Somewhere I read that Nemtin has written other orchestral works (2 symphonies?) prior to the completion of the Mysterium. I would love to hear those.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Shostakovich # 7 and Beethoven # 3.


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## LarryShone

Shostakovich 11. I bought that on a whim and it blew me away. Such power and then sensitivity. Amazing.


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## aglayaepanchin

20centrfuge said:


> Sibelius 2
> Sibelius 5
> 
> 5 is epic in a different way than Mahler or even Bruckner, but epic, to be sure. I can't recommend these two highly enough.


I definitely agree. The trumpets of the third movement! I read somewhere that Sibelius came up with the theme as inspiration hit him when he saw swans fly over the surface of a lake.


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## Templeton

Franz Schmidt's Fourth Symphony was mentioned earlier but his second is even more 'epic' imho. Others I like are Strauss's 'Alpine Symphony', Bruckner's Ninth, Beethoven's Seventh and Shostakovich's 'Leningrad' Seventh, which is truly epic. Some great suggestions already posted.


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## hpowders

The most epic for me usually has the name "Sibelius" attached to it, in particular, the Second, Fifth and Seventh.


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## Pugg

Mahler's Second, Third and Eight


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## znapschatz

All the above are musically inspiring enough to qualify, but for truly epic, it's got to be *Symphony #3, Ilya Murometz* by Reinhold Glière. It is, after all, the programatic telling of an epic story. Doesn't get more epic than that.


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## TxllxT

znapschatz said:


> All the above are musically inspiring enough to qualify, but for truly epic, it's got to be *Symphony #3, Ilya Murometz* by Reinhold Glière. It is, after all, the programatic telling of an epic story. Doesn't get more epic than that.







Well, I agree but only with adding Sibelius' Kullervo


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## Brahmsian Colors

No necessary order. 

Brahms 1, Beethoven 3 and 9, Schubert 9, Bruckner 8, Mahler 3, Sibelius 5, Mozart 41


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