# Squillo comes from OPEN THROAT, not Squeezing!



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Excellent explanation and demonstration by Craig Sirianni, student of Tom LoMonaco.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Other important points he touches on
1) There is no "technique for tenors", "technique for basses", etc. All male voices have the same technique. Change maybe 10-20% and you have the technique for all female voices.
2) Dynamics are over-analyzed. Sing with your full, open voice, and, with a few obviously marked exceptions, they will mostly take care of themselves. You don't need to worry about "my piano should sound exactly like this", "my forte should sound exactly like that". You aren't mixing lab chemicals. It's all relative and subservient to sound production and intensity.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Sensible discussion. Singers should never try to make a particular sound, but only to free their own voices to make the sound inherent in them.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Sensible discussion. Singer's should never try to make a particular sound, but only to free their own voices to make the sound inherent in them.


This is a big reason why, even though I like fachs a little more than you, I hate the whole thing where people teach students how to sing based on their fach. You learn to sing correctly, and your biology shows you your real voice over time. Simple as that.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> This is a big reason why, even though I like fachs a little more than you, I hate the whole thing where people teach students how to sing based on their fach. You learn to sing correctly, and your biology shows you your real voice over time. Simple as that.


I was thinking about fachs and their premature application. I'm glad we agree in this context.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

What was it that Joe Friday used to say in Dragnet? - ‘ Just the fachs, ma’am!’


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Perfect example of squillo: Marcello Giordani (gone too early)


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Another point he alludes to but doesn't quite make: the differences in vocal weight and power between different voices are exaggerated. It's more about _where _your voice has greatest power/intensity. For example, a major reason why dramatic sopranos have more vocal weight than lighter sopranos is that they...tend to sit about a 3rd or a 4th lower.

In the Golden Age, they didn't talk much about "big voices' because...*all good singers had big voices*. You could hear greats from even the lightest end of the voice spectrum like Luisa Tetrazzini and Herman Jadlowker from a mile away, because the actual size of the vocal cords is only a small part of what provides volume and weight. All singers have a pharynx, a tongue, cricothyroid muscles, etc.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Squillo, like most characteristics of good singing, come about naturally as a matter of course if the technique is correct. Correct technique comes from pure vowels (the five accurately pronounced Italian vowels in a voice as close to ones speaking voice as possible, or as Woodduck puts it above, "Singers should never try to make a particular sound, but only to free their own voices to make the sound inherent in them") and coordination of the registers.

The throat should always be open (although it tends to be more so at the extremes of the voice) and singers shouldn't attempt to add or put on squillo or darkness or any other. Squillo comes from having enough head register in the coordination and therefore is the result of the crico-thyroids being engaged rather than just the arytenoids alone. (Knowing which muscles are doing what doesn't help the singer sing any better, of course, but some may find it to be of interest.)

N.


----------



## kappablanca (9 mo ago)

I wasn't always a fan of This Is Opera's content on YouTube, but this is likely the most helpful bit of advice they used to preach. Openness of the throat, with a low, but relaxed, larynx. Too many singers nowadays will sacrifice true virtue in singing that comes from a free, open voice (proper vowel formation, squillo, freeness, etc.) for qualities that are not virtues in and of themselves (ie, darkness...looking at you, Kaufmann.)


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

kappablanca said:


> I wasn't always a fan of This Is Opera's content on YouTube, but this is likely the most helpful bit of advice they used to preach. Openness of the throat, with a low, but relaxed, larynx. Too many singers nowadays will sacrifice true virtue in singing that comes from a free, open voice (proper vowel formation, squillo, freeness, etc.) for qualities that are not virtues in and of themselves (ie, darkness...looking at you, Kaufmann.)


I think they had many great concepts (albeit a touch dogmatic about others and taking some to unhealthy extremes). If you want something a little more balanced, GeneralRadames and Trrill both host excellent channels.


----------



## kappablanca (9 mo ago)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I think they had many great concepts (albeit a touch dogmatic about others and taking some to unhealthy extremes). If you want something a little more balanced, GeneralRadames and Trrill both host excellent channels.


I am very aware of those two channels, and can't recommend them enough! They have the right message, without TIO's belligerence.
I would add the small channel Francisca to the list. It's not the same type of commentary/criticism channel, but AfroPoli is always quite good as well--and AfroPoli (the owner of the channel, not the 20th century one) has a rather nice amateur baritone voice as well.
In any case, quite a few of TIO's videos manage to remain quite calm and moderate.


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I'm curious. Do you think Jon Vickers had squillo?


----------



## kappablanca (9 mo ago)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I'm curious. Do you think Jon Vickers had squillo?


Maybe not none, but quite little comparatively on most notes. He always did seem to me like he sung from the back of the throat, especially with the crooning. A bit like Giacomini (sometimes) or Kaufmann.

Not to say that Vickers was bad, or not audible. He just seemed to not have squillo. There’s little to no ”ping” to the voice.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Vickers is like Jessye Norman, both very large, resonant voices but without much in terms of proper squillo.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> Vickers is like Jessye Norman, both very large, resonant voices but without much in terms of proper squillo.


I see what you mean. But why "proper"? What's not proper about this?






Voices differ. Vickers' timbre is unique. For me its peculiar quality makes him almost incomparable in certain roles, particularly Grimes and Siegmund, where his haunted quality captures more of the character than Melchior's brighter, more squillante timbre.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I see what you mean. But why "proper"? What's not proper about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if Vickers voice would have been any less unique if he sang with squillo, I find the voices of Vinay, Melchior, del Monaco etc. all unique. I don't dislike Vickers, although I do prefer Melchior's Siegmund. Personal preferences.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> I'm not sure if Vickers voice would have been any less unique if he sang with squillo, I find the voices of Vinay, Melchior, del Monaco etc. all unique. I don't dislike Vickers, although I do prefer Melchior's Siegmund. Personal preferences.


I question whether Vickers could have "sung with squillo." I also wonder if that notion doesn't represent a limited idea of vocal technique and of what is "proper." Vickers' voice functioned quite well and aged gracefully during a sizable career, in music as varied as Handel, Cherubini, Verdi, Wagner and Britten, and served well his exceptional artistry. Whether we like his unique sound is largely a matter of taste. I do generally like it, even in Handel's _Messiah_, where I'd rather hear him than any so-called Baroque specialist or, in fact, anyone else I've ever heard.

I find myself skeptical, and occasionally annoyed, with opera experts insisting that voices "should" make a particular kind of sound. Such pronouncements are no doubt well-intentioned and, often, well-informed, but easily become dogmatic. As a musician, I think that the best vocal production and sound is the one that best serves the music.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I question whether Vickers could have "sung with squillo." I also wonder if that notion doesn't represent a limited idea of vocal technique and of what is "proper." Vickers' voice functioned quite well and aged gracefully during a sizable career, in music as varied as Handel, Cherubini, Verdi, Wagner and Britten, and served well his exceptional artistry. Whether we like his unique sound is largely a matter of taste. I do generally like it, even in Handel's _Messiah_, where I'd rather hear him than any so-called Baroque specialist or, in fact, anyone else I've ever heard.
> 
> I find myself skeptical, and occasionally annoyed, with opera experts insisting that voices "should" make a particular kind of sound. Such pronouncements are no doubt well-intentioned and, often, well-informed, but easily become dogmatic. As a musician, I think that the best vocal production and sound is the one that best serves the music.


I agree, everyone finds their own ways in the end, but the basics should always be the same. Squillo is one aspect that many, although more so in the past than now, would have considered essential. With a big voice it does become less important as the voice is able to be heard clearly without it, but even then it does bring an extra level of immediacy and involvement to the sound. Vickers voice aged better than many, but also not as well as many others, while I quite like his early work, such as his 1957 performance of Les Troyens under Kubelik I find his timbre in the 1969 recording with Davis far less enjoyable. As to whether everyone can sing with squillo I'm not quite sure, but it's not as hard to produce as some might think and should naturally occur when the throat is properly opened and the vocal chords are allowed to resonate fully. Whether you like her or not I think Melba was giving good advice when quoted as saying "good singing is easy singing".


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> Whether you like her or not I think Melba was giving good advice when quoted as saying "good singing is easy singing".


This is certainly what Flagstad meant in saying that when she sang she felt as if she had no throat. We can hear that naturalness and ease. This is technically optimal, but is it always musically and dramatically optimal? I wonder if perhaps such perfect emission made both Melba and Flagstad less exciting to listen to than other singers where the sound contains a certain element of tension.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> This is certainly what Flagstad meant in saying that when she sang she felt as if she had no throat. We can hear that naturalness and ease. This is technically optimal, but is it always musically and dramatically optimal? I wonder if perhaps such perfect emission made both Melba and Flagstad less exciting to listen to than other singers where the sound contains a certain element of tension.


Good question, I do however find that Flagstad could be perfectly exciting when under good direction. She is on fire in those Bodanzky Tristans. I feel like perfect emission is something which conveys more excitement live than through recording however. Live, the power and freedom of the sound generates the excitement but this doesn't always come through on recordings. A more effortful emission may give the timbre an exciting 'edge' in recordings but usually won't have the same effect live. But I find the greatest artists are able to generate excitement with a wonderful emission on record too, prime Callas, del Monaco, Tebaldi, Guelfi, Taddei, Basiola etc. The list goes on.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> Good question, I do however find that Flagstad could be perfectly exciting when under good direction. She is on fire in those Bodanzky Tristans. I feel like perfect emission is something which conveys more excitement live than through recording however. Live, the power and freedom of the sound generates the excitement but this doesn't always come through on recordings. A more effortful emission may give the timbre an exciting 'edge' in recordings but usually won't have the same effect live. But I find the greatest artists are able to generate excitement with a wonderful emission on record too, prime Callas, del Monaco, Tebaldi, Guelfi, Taddei, Basiola etc. The list goes on.


That's true about Flagstad in live performance, She had a placid temperament, a natural reserve, but came to life under the right circumstances.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> That's true about Flagstad in live performance, She had a placid temperament, a natural reserve, but came to life under the right circumstances.


I heard a quote about Heifetz and (I think!) Mischa Elman that went something like Elman got hot under the collar and the audience was calm and Heifetz stayed calm while the audience got hot! I think the Frida leider recording you put on here a few months back was an example of an exciting effect from an easy emission. Young Bjoerling can make me feel the same way. I think a voice that ascends with some gain of power and comparatively little feeling of effort is almost always exciting to me.


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> That's true about Flagstad in live performance, She had a placid temperament, a natural reserve, but came to life under the right circumstances.


The 1936 Liebstod perfectly illustrates your point. It makes an interesting contrast to Leider's live performance, but one can also call it a legitimate demonstration of ecstasy.


----------



## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

The Conte said:


> Correct technique comes from pure vowels (the five accurately pronounced Italian vowels in a voice as close to ones speaking voice as possible


Standard Italian has seven vowels, of course, and there are many, many more vowels out there, all of which can be sung. Furthermore, squillo does not come primarily from the head-voice register. In a man (and squillo is essentially a male feature), head-voice dominance up high results in mezza voce. Add in chest function when you are covered, and you get squillo. Headier singers are breathier and darker and have LESS squillo.

Now as for this open-throat thing...it's really not true, beyond its use as a pedagogical cue, in which case it's as subjective and haphazard as the rest of them. Operatic singers all narrow their aryepiglottic folds to produce brightness and ring. That is not maximal openness. All vowels and consonants are the result of constriction somewhere in the vocal tract. Vowels are tuned to specific formants, especially in singing. This is not done through maximal openness but through selective constriction.

On another note, squillo is perfectly possible with a raised larynx if other things are done correctly, but it's obviously not ideal.

And on a final note...I definitely don't agree that Jadlowker is on the extreme end of the lightness scale. I hear a spinto.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

PaulFranz said:


> Standard Italian has seven vowels, of course, and there are many, many more vowels out there, all of which can be sung. Furthermore, squillo does not come primarily from the head-voice register. In a man (and squillo is essentially a male feature), head-voice dominance up high results in mezza voce. Add in chest function when you are covered, and you get squillo. Headier singers are breathier and darker and have LESS squillo.
> 
> Now as for this open-throat thing...it's really not true, beyond its use as a pedagogical cue, in which case it's as subjective and haphazard as the rest of them. Operatic singers all narrow their aryepiglottic folds to produce brightness and ring. That is not maximal openness. All vowels and consonants are the result of constriction somewhere in the vocal tract. Vowels are tuned to specific formants, especially in singing. This is not done through maximal openness but through selective constriction.
> 
> On another note, squillo is perfectly possible with a raised larynx if other things are done correctly, but it's obviously not ideal.


I realise you may have misunderstood my point about the crucial nature of the five vowels as they occur in Italian and the training process. There are, of course, seven Italian vowels, but two are dependent on others. (The open e and o are not generally vocalised on, perhaps because they are close enough to the closed versions of those vowels and the closed versions provide a more phonated vowel.) I, of course, didn't mean that singers should only sing in Italian and without open vowels! All (or perhaps most) vowel sounds can be sung correctly. However, it's not as easy as it sounds. The key is how you get there and a key part of training the voice is by vocalising on the five main vowels as they occur in Italian with the singer's natural voice, they must be phonated purely. Once a singer is singing actual rep, then the muscles will adapt what they have become used to doing to the vowels of the piece sung, whatever language it is in.

The main question though, is what are singers that don't have squillo NOT doing?

N.


----------



## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

The Conte said:


> The main question though, is what are singers that don't have squillo NOT doing?


I would say that they lack chest voice participation above their secondi passaggi. I believe that the overdarkened, yawny sound that we've been treated to since the second world war is the product of excessive head voice in the mix. The vowels get more and more indistinct as such a voice rises in either volume or pitch, and vocal-fold adduction becomes more and more strenuous or incomplete as a result of thyroarytenoid (vocalis aspect) hypofunction.

In more normie terms: they push their larynx down and phonate on a semi-yawn sensation, deliberately focusing on maximum depth and darkness. They chase a sound they were taught in school and never, ever listen to early singers. They pay attention to sympathetic resonances in their body even more than they chase that specific sound. They seek out nasal and orbital buzzing sensations and attempt to "focus" or "project" their sound onto their own foreheads. They are universally taught this in private instruction. All of this leads to the mechanical dysfunction I mentioned in my first paragraph.

Also, in their everyday lives, at least nowadays, they don't even listen to classical music at all, and when they do (for rôle prep exclusively), the way-back-ancient-dusty times to them are when Pavarotti and Sutherland roamed the Earth.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

PaulFranz said:


> I would say that they lack chest voice participation above their secondi passaggi. I believe that the overdarkened, yawny sound that we've been treated to since the second world war is the product of excessive head voice in the mix. The vowels get more and more indistinct as such a voice rises in either volume or pitch, and vocal-fold adduction becomes more and more strenuous or incomplete as a result of thyroarytenoid (vocalis aspect) hypofunction.


I find this a really interesting suggestion. My perception is that male singers aren't using their head voice mechanisms efficiently above the break I think you are referring to as the second passaggio. This is an issue that mainly (if not exclusively) applies to tenors (I think Kaufmann would be the main example of this).

Getting back to squillo, it's clear that both head and chest mechanisms are needed to be efficiently used in coordination with each other and whether you think lack of squillo is due to not enough of one or the other depends on which you perceive to be lacking in the singer in question. It's also clear that this will depend on the singer. Perhaps some of today's lyric Rossini tenors fit with your description.

N.


----------



## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

The Conte said:


> I find this a really interesting suggestion. My perception is that male singers aren't using their head voice mechanisms efficiently above the break I think you are referring to as the second passaggio. This is an issue that mainly (if not exclusively) applies to tenors (I think Kaufmann would be the main example of this).
> 
> Getting back to squillo, it's clear that both head and chest mechanisms are needed to be efficiently used in coordination with each other and whether you think lack of squillo is due to not enough of one or the other depends on which you perceive to be lacking in the singer in question. It's also clear that this will depend on the singer. Perhaps some of today's lyric Rossini tenors fit with your description.
> 
> N.


I definitely agree that it's all about balance, but no, you're thinking of the exact opposite of what I'm thinking of. Head voice = dark, hooty, muffled. Chest voice = bright, buzzy, shouty. Listening to singers before WWII, you get the very, very clear impression that they were shoutier all the way through. So the "darker" the sound, the more head-oriented they are to me. My criticism applies most of all to basses, then to baritones, then to tenors. Speech is clear, usually, and speech is chest-dominant. Many classical singers turn into a bizarre Kermit impression the second they sing anything nowadays--that's reduction of chest dominance. So yes, I do think it applies to Rossini tenors, but probably not for the reason you do.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Head voice = dark, hooty, muffled. Chest voice = bright, buzzy, shouty. Listening to singers before WWII, you get the very, very clear impression that they were shoutier all the way through. So the "darker" the sound, the more head-oriented they are to me.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds convincing to me but it sounds like it is about singing at mf and louder. Even bright and dark can be perceived differently by different people, but I perceive Gigli, DiStefano, Bjoerling type of soft-singing in the upper register to be bright. From your perspective this would seem to imply some kind of shift in the point mentioned above when singing softly. I always assume soft singing up high to be largely a product of head voice.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

ScottK said:


> This sounds convincing to me but it sounds like it is about singing at mf and louder. Even bright and dark can be perceived differently by different people, but I perceive Gigli, DiStefano, Bjoerling type of soft-singing in the upper register to be bright. From your perspective this would seem to imply some kind of shift in the point mentioned above when singing softly. I always assume soft singing up high to be largely a product of head voice.


You need head voice participation to sing softly, and chest voice participation to sing powerfully, but you also have examples of:

softer chest voice singing (note: this isn't an opera singer)






and more powerful, exciting head voice singing (massive head voice at the beginning. HUGE chest voice at the end)


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> You need head voice participation to sing softly, and chest voice participation to sing powerfully, but you also have examples of:
> 
> softer chest voice singing (note: this isn't an opera singer)
> 
> ...


Where do you FIND this stuff BBoy?!?! 🤔🤔🤔...Very cool😎🤓!!


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

ScottK said:


> Where do you FIND this stuff BBoy?!?! 🤔🤔🤔...Very cool😎🤓!!


For this one in particular? I randomly heard a Ukrainian folk piece and thought "omg! this is *gorgeous!*", so I proceeded to search "Ukrainian folk music" and listen to several dozen clips. Most of them were titled in Cyrillic, so I ended up randomly sifting through several times that many videos, inevitably stumbling across several lovely Polish and, in this case, Russian pieces using the same alphabet.

Something about the cord structure of Eastern European music resonates with me more, as does the phrasing, which often includes better portamento than even some of the Golden Age Italian composers and singers. Perhaps it's that I don't tend to relate as much to the fiery, expressive Mediterranean temperament. The emotions they express feel more like something that I would experience and come off a bit more melancholic and contemplative (Italian opera is often tragic, but "tragic" vs "melancholic" are different concepts to me).

If one thing can be said of Russians, they have made suffering into an artform. Less Italian melodrama, more severe, icy stoicism covering deeper sensitivity and vulnerability. This piece in particular gives me a very distinctive image: a Russian grandmother burying her grandson who succumbed to fever and was taken by the harsh Russian Winter. It's not just the acute emotional pain I hear in her voice, but a heavier, weathered kind of pain, as if this is something she's done before.

Edit: It helps that Russians tend to appreciate deeper voices more. More work for bass, contralto, baritone, etc rather than everything being a sappy tenor/soprano duet.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> ...
> If one thing can be said of Russians, they have made suffering into an artform. Less Italian melodrama, more severe, icy stoicism covering deeper sensitivity and vulnerability. This piece in particular gives me a very distinctive image: a Russian grandmother burying her grandson who succumbed to fever and was taken by the harsh Russian Winter. ...


If the case in hand is Zykina's song, then it's about a lonely woman who can't be together with a man she loves, both are present as trees, rowan and oak.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> For this one in particular? I randomly heard a Ukrainian folk piece and thought "omg! this is *gorgeous!*", so I proceeded to search "Ukrainian folk music" and listen to several dozen clips. Most of them were titled in Cyrillic, so I ended up randomly sifting through several times that many videos, inevitably stumbling across several lovely Polish and, in this case, Russian pieces using the same alphabet.
> 
> Something about the cord structure of Eastern European music resonates with me more, as does the phrasing, which often includes better portamento than even some of the Golden Age Italian composers and singers. Perhaps it's that I don't tend to relate as much to the fiery, expressive Mediterranean temperament. The emotions they express feel more like something that I would experience and come off a bit more melancholic and contemplative (Italian opera is often tragic, but "tragic" vs "melancholic" are different concepts to me).
> 
> ...


You couldn’t have pointed up the contrast much more clearly than you did by posting the Russian song next to Voi Lo sapete! Melancholic and beautiful to the max! And all the other things you mentioned as well!


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

ScottK said:


> You couldn’t have pointed up the contrast much more clearly than you did by posting the Russian song next to Voi Lo sapete! Melancholic and beautiful to the max! And all the other things you mentioned as well!


Come to think of it, traditional Russian music is full of soft chest voice singing. A more recent example, Zhanna Bichevskaya.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Come to think of it, traditional Russian music is full of soft chest voice singing. A more recent example, Zhanna Bichevskaya.


Its lovely, if not quite as poignant as the first song....the photographer does like close close-ups. But what was cool was that when the architecture wasn't decidedly Russian, it looked like Vermont. A yoga teacher who was Russian said that life is more fun there but more dangerous because the law doesn't act on things like it does here.....present circumstances in Russia were not part of that.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ScottK said:


> Where do you FIND this stuff BBoy?!?! 🤔🤔🤔...Very cool😎🤓!!


good as your modern singer was, it made me want to come back here!! I love her! Her crying in the music - at least without words that's what is sounded like - was just right. I want to see if I still remember how to load a song on here. My son just turned me onto this guy...the album came out in October....and, among alot of other things, I LOVE his musical cry in the voice. Lets see if I can do it


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Perfect example of squillo: Marcello Giordani (gone too early)


This ugly singing, not properly open and definitely not a good example of proper squillo.


----------



## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Op.123 said:


> This ugly singing, not properly open and definitely not a good example of proper squillo.


And horrifically out of tune, to boot.


----------

