# BASS TOURNAMENT (Final): Plancon vs Reizen



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Pol Plancon, France, 1851-1914 (defeated Chaliapin 12-6, Siepi 15-4, Pinza 21-7)






Mark Reizen, Russia, 1895-1992 (defeated Christoff 15-3, Ghiaurov 15-2, Borg 8-7)






"Elle ne m'aime pas'/'Ella giammai m'amo' from Verdi's _Don Carlo(s)_.

Who's singing did you prefer and why?


----------



## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

I went easily to* Mark.* Everything in the second video is better: Voice of the interpreter & sound quality. Thanks for this new game, my friend.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

This being one of my favorite arias, I've heard a lot of good ones . These two are not necessarily the best ones of the lot but between the two of them -- and they were both wonderful -- I must choose Reizen. His sound brings a plaintive sadness so necessary in this part.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I'm still giving them a listen. However, as I've said before, if it's in French, then it's Plancon. (Interesting that the French version of Don Carlos wasn't totally obliterated from the record at the time his recording was made, was the whole opera performed in French at that time in France?)

I have yet to listen to Reizen, but I can't imagine him giving such a perfect performance as Plancon's wonderfully francophone version.

N


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Perhaps I was too hasty in my (pre) judgement. The slower tempo taken for Reizen's (the technology of Plancon's time may have caused him to have to rush compared to how he would have sung it in the theatre) puts him at an advantage. Then, of course, he sings it in Italian rather than French, which takes away Plancon's impeccable francophone advantage. Having now listened, I'm very pleasantly surprised to go ahead and vote for Reizen. He doesn't have the stylish refined line of our miraculous French hero, but he uses a greater variety of colours (and I recognise that means that he sacrifices sound technique at times).

Reizen wins.

N.


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Although Reizen benefits a lot from the orchestra, the sound quality, and his stupendous voice, I still feel Plancon is the better singer here. The smoothness of his legato, ease with which he sings, and the emotion his embellishment of the melodic lines instill, makes him the superior choice in my eyes.

However, I have a sneaking suspicion I may be outvoted in this one and Reizen's singing is good enough that that wouldn't be too much of a disappointment.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This is almost possible. How do you compare these two performances? One in the original French, one in Italian. One in better sound than the other and one which includes the whole of the introduction and opening recitative and one that doesn't.

Both are wonderful, but I think ultimately I'm going to vote for the greater refinement and inner feeling of Plançon. Not that it's an easy choice. On another day and in another mood, I might just as easily have gone for Reizen. How fortunate we are to have two such mementoes of these great singers.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Plancon sings it perfectly, but it's emotionally inert. Reizen may not be as linguistically adept, but he sings in a way that demonstrates Philip's tormented soul.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

^Precisely my take as well. I know that this is definitely not a standard take because everyone seems to praise Plancon for his perfection, but I find him to be too light and flippant, skimming over the surface. Reizen has so much more weight and authority in his voice, and even though I don’t know what the aria is about, you can tell that he is investing his singing with deep pathos.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's an English translation of the scene:

FILIPPO (deep in thought)
She never loved me!
No, her heart is closed to me,
she feels no love for me!
I can still see her,
sad-faced, gazing
at my white hair the day
she came here from France.
No, she has no love for me,
she does not love me!
(recovering himself)
Where am I?
Those candelabra are almost spent!
Dawn whitens my balcony,
day is already breaking!
I see my days passing slowly!
Sleep, oh God,
has vanished from my drooping eyelids.
I shall sleep alone in my royal mantle
when I attain the evening of my days,
I shall sleep alone beneath the black vault,
there, in my tomb in the Escurial.
If the royal crown could but give me
the power to read human hearts
which God alone can see!
Ah, if the royal crown, etc.
If the prince sleeps, the traitor watches;
the King loses his crown, the husband his honour!
I shall sleep alone in my royal mantle, etc.
Ah, if the royal crown, etc.
She never loved me!
No, her heart is closed to me,
she does not love me!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This is unfair to Plancon, both in the great difference in recorded sound which allows only Reizen's voice to make its true impact, and in the fact that Reizen is framed by a most expressively played introduction and accompaniment that has our emotions fully engaged even before the singer opens his mouth. I admit to being bothered by Reizen's Italian, which at times sounds an awful lot like Russian and makes me feel as if Boris Godunov is vacationing in the south. He sings the aria superbly and misses none of its emotional changes; Plancon is less specific moment-to-moment, but projects perhaps as much meaning in the subtle molding of the musical line. I'm going to give it to Plancon in view of the relatively primitive recording and the abridgment of the music which nonetheless can't hide his extraordinary sensitivity to musical values and finesse in realizing them.


----------



## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

The problem for me is that Plancon and Reizen give totally different interpretations. Plancon's is more personal and elegant, whereas Reizen's is tragic and grand. Both are completely valid interpretations of this aria, and both are realized about as well as I could imagine for their respective interpretation. What about technique? Well, if we're going for vocal polish and musical elegance, it's Plancon all the way. If we're going for a huge, rich voice with power and beauty built into the instrument, then it's Reizen. Again, both are important to me in a singer. So who to choose? Ultimately, I'm going to go with the one that moved me the most after several listenings, and that's Reizen. As I said about Pinza and Mardones, I imagine that in another mood I would lean the other way. Okay, enough vacillations and qualifications: Reizen it is.


----------



## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I`m afraid I find Plançon`s voice quite underwhelming. Of course his control over his voice is admirable but not very surprising considering his smaller voice. On the other hand, Reizen`s voice is as overwhelming as it gets. I also prefer Reizen`s grandioso interpretation here so I`d say it`s not even close for me.


----------



## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Okay, I'm catching up with the voting, and what an aria it is, finally!
Reizen's Italian pronunciation is jarring but the interpretation is on the grand scale - exactly what is needed here. Not to diminish Plancon, but he doesn't sound like king of Spain at all (not that I claim to know exactly how a real king would sound.... probably hysterical and out of tune )


----------



## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

P.S. 9 - 2 for Reizen by post count but 11-15 by actual votes. Don't be afraid to state your opinions so we might publicly... ahem... discuss them


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Azol said:


> P.S. 9 - 2 for Reizen by post count but 11-15 by actual votes. Don't be afraid to state your opinions so we might publicly... ahem... discuss them


I'm a fan of Reizen's singing, but I consider Plancon unbeatable in this rep. All of the things I want in a singer Plancon has, and more. If a role requires elegance and refinement, which I believe Filippo does, there cannot be a better choice than Plancon imo. I'm also ok with a Filippo who's voice isn't especially dark, as long as the low notes are strong, because of the contrast it creates in the Grand Inquisitor scene that follows. I want the Inquisitor to have more weight to his sound than the King. There are roles where I would favor Reizen, but this is not one of them. I only wish we had a full length recording in more modern sound...

"Philip was described by the Venetian ambassador Paolo Fagolo in 1563 as "slight of stature and round-faced, with pale blue eyes, somewhat prominent lip, and pink skin, but his overall appearance is very attractive...he dresses very tastefully, and everything that he does is courteous and gracious."

Sounds like a Plancon voice to me!


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> I'm a fan of Reizen's singing, but I consider Plancon unbeatable in this rep. All of the things I want in a singer Plancon has, and more. If a role requires elegance and refinement, which I believe Filippo does, there cannot be a better choice than Plancon imo. I'm also ok with a Filippo who's voice isn't especially dark, as long as the low notes are strong, because of the contrast it creates in the Grand Inquisitor scene that follows. I want the Inquisitor to have more weight to his sound than the King. There are roles where I would favor Reizen, but this is not one of them. I only wish we had a full length recording in more modern sound...
> 
> "Philip was described by the Venetian ambassador Paolo Fagolo in 1563 as "slight of stature and round-faced, with pale blue eyes, somewhat prominent lip, and pink skin, but his overall appearance is very attractive...he dresses very tastefully, and everything that he does is courteous and gracious."
> 
> Sounds like a Plancon voice to me!


I agree with all you say, whilst stating that we should be careful not to take too much from the history books when playing characters who actually existed. History's Richard III, for instance, has very little to do with Shakespeare's and it is Shakespeare's Richard we should interpret if performing the play. Callas noted that when she first took on the role of Anna Bolena, she at first looked at the history books, but then quickly setting them aside and took all her character clues from Donizetti's music. I wish more directors would do the same. These days I often feel that they plough their own course with scant regard to the music and the libretto.


----------

