# Are we spinning our wheels here?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

And maybe an indication of where music is really "happening," compared with the anemic performance in our own small corner of the music world.

"It took 45 years, but they did it: Black Sabbath's new album, '13,' topped the Billboard 200 album chart, selling 155,000 copies in its first week. It also topped the UK albums chart."

http://tinyurl.com/olxu6sj

45 years is the distance between Beethoven's 9th and Das Rheingold.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

In our own past 45 years we've seen the rise of hip hop and electronic music, so _things_ are happening. It seems to me that world music has become more popular, and crossover combinations of all kinds of music.

If I'm not mistaken, Starbucks currently has a song by the Yoshida Brothers on rotation. Of course it's way below us here - I'm joking - sort of - but anyway, that would not have been made in 1968. Of course there was _Within You Without You_. But now stuff like that is almost, well - I mean, heck, Yo Yo Ma and Kronos Quartet and Bang on a Can do that kind of thing. How long can it be before John Eliot Gardiner puts out an album of Siberian shamans drumming with the Monteverdi Choir chanting and the English Baroque Soloists tooting away in polyrhythmic New Age bliss? Or _Marc-André Hamelin Meets Psy_? Don't act like you wouldn't be jivin' to Czerny-Style. Ok, you act however you want, but I won't pretend that I wouldn't be ridin' my horsey.

And people say there's no progress in music.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

"It is a sobering thought that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years" - Tom Lehrer.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I'd rather poke my ears out with a pick than buy Black Sabbaths- to much like necrophilia to me.....

The dead should stay dead.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'd rather poke my ears out with a pick than buy Black Sabbaths- to much like necrophilia to me.....
> 
> The dead should stay dead.


Yet you listen to music by long dead composers. I don't get it.

I think the effect KenOC is seeing is a recognition for achievement where none was given back in the day. The press has finally recognized how overwhelmingly influential Iommi and company were on those who came after, for good or ill, and they're making up for lost time, especially in view of Iommi's undergoing chemo treatment for lymphoma - while still touring! That is all that this is about. It's sort of like if there could be a Beatles reunion. It makes headlines.

We need not worry that more innovative music isn't happening. The popular press is always a few decades behind the times in that.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The popular press hasn't recognized anything when it comes to music. Most of the writers don't know anything about the subject. "It makes headlines" is what the editors are concerned with. Black Sabbath was overshadowed by Led Zeppelin in the 70s, and the press always paid attention to the later. Much of this has to do with a band's management, record company, and agents who organize massive promotional campaigns, interviews, and radio station payola.

I'm glad Sabbath fans have a new album to listen to, but that type of music never did anything for me. As far as "world music" is concerned, there's a lot of contrived stuff marketed by certain labels. It's really nothing new. Jazz musicians have been doing this sort of thing since the 50s. It was pioneered by artists like Yusef Lateef, Tony Scott, Emil Richards, and John McLaughlin in the early 70s.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Given the choice I'd rather have Ozzy in Sabbath revisiting old glories for a year or two rather than treading water with another average solo album. And from what I've heard so far this album is better then the last two he did with Sabbath back in the late 70s. I admit to being surprised by the level of success it's gained, though - especially in the UK. Good on 'em but still a pity drummer Bill Ward wasn't involved.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

probably a korean girl band is the most happening if you go by numbers sold.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

elgars ghost said:


> Given the choice I'd rather have Ozzy in Sabbath revisiting old glories for a year or two rather than treading water with another average solo album. And from what I've heard so far this album is better then the last two he did with Sabbath back in the late 70s. I admit to being surprised by the level of success it's gained, though - especially in the UK. Good on 'em but still a pity drummer Bill Ward wasn't involved.


Success doesn't mean the music is good. In fact usually is quite the opposite. What it means to me is that they did a good job marketing the album and nothing more.

As far as I'm concerned personally their music was awful 45 years ago and is awful now.

Kevin


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Kevin Pearson said:


> Success doesn't mean the music is good. In fact usually is quite the opposite.


The history of classical music from about 1750 until at least 1900 suggests, in general, that you are mistaken.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Kevin Pearson said:


> Success doesn't mean the music is good...
> 
> Kevin


In many cases quite so, but whether their music is awful or not I still never expected the Sabbath album to do this well, even though topping a chart doesn't really have as much significance these days. I just wish Argus was around to give his judgement on it.


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## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

Sabbath are a classic band. Let the record show however that I'd rather they did a reunion with the much under appreciated Tony Martin than Ozzy, who is barely even a shadow of his former self nowadays.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Weston said:


> Yet you listen to music by long dead composers. I don't get it.
> 
> I think the effect KenOC is seeing is a recognition for achievement where none was given back in the day. The press has finally recognized how overwhelmingly influential Iommi and company were on those who came after, for good or ill, and they're making up for lost time, especially in view of Iommi's undergoing chemo treatment for lymphoma - while still touring! That is all that this is about. It's sort of like if there could be a Beatles reunion. It makes headlines.
> 
> We need not worry that more innovative music isn't happening. The popular press is always a few decades behind the times in that.


I didn't realise that the Rapidly Greying Sabbath were dead already, might make there music more interesting if it was from beyond the grave.

My issue with bands like Black Sabbath is more that these sort of reunion deals are just that - Deals driven by accountants and marketers rather than any form of artistic expression with the bands interests being Retirement fund/ or repaying taxman etc.


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

science said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Starbucks currently has a song by the Yoshida Brothers on rotation


They were playing baroque music in a mcdonalds I was eating in a few weeks back. It was weird.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Just wait till Kanye West starts doing Baroque- if he thinks there is a buck in it.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I didn't realise that the Rapidly Greying Sabbath were dead already, might make there music more interesting if it was from beyond the grave.


Hmm, Grey Sabbath is actually a pretty cool name. I hear rumors Iommi is about to release a bunch of riffs - just riffs, to be used by anyone who can afford the license after he's gone. So it's not that far fetched.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Schubussy said:


> They were playing baroque music in a mcdonalds I was eating in a few weeks back. It was weird.


Ha Haaaa Haaaaaa.

So, bubbeleh, a bit of Baroque goes just dandy with a _caffé latte_ and a _cwahssahnt_ at *$'s.... 
but doesn't sit so well with a Big Mac, Fish fillet or Chicken McNuggets?

LOL, *"Welcome to McBaroque. How can I help you?"*


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm not sure metal is exactly where it is happening in popular music, but if it is it would be in a more progressive vein than I suspect Black Sabbath are. And as was said sales probably aren't as important an indicator as they may have been before, and of course marketing is a big part of music sales anyway.

It's true though that popular music is a far busier area of music now than classical, with all the many different styles and the intermingling that takes place as well (part of what can be progressive). Perhaps classical music needs to leave many of its traditional limits aside and join the party, some of it has done that in the modern era but maybe even more is needed for classical music to really redefine itself in a new way rather than looking backward too much.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you count of the plethora of "baroque concerti" and "Baroque pieces" from wannabe through various levels of the self-taught composers, the vehicle is on a set of rollers, running in reverse while stationary, pulling the odometer back from 2013 to ca. 1723.

I don't give a flying fig how long it took a pop music group to pull it together to write and record between 12 to fifteen songs... really.


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