# Greatest Beethoven recording ever?



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Opinions?

I nominate these five. Obviously I am considering only performance and not sound quality, but you are free to factor in sonics if you like. For me the music is paramount.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Nice post BHS. This is gonna take some thinking about.


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## Beethoven14 (Feb 14, 2019)




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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)




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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Schnabel op. 109. Fricsay 9th symphony.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

flamencosketches said:


> Schnabel op. 109. Fricsay 9th symphony.


Thats only 2......come on Flamenco! 3 more!


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Schnabel op. 109. Fricsay 9th symphony.


I very nearly went with 109 instead of 111. Tough choice, but I believe 111 is the more monumental.

Fricsay's 9th is excellent, the best in modern sound. But none can top Furt '42 for me. It is other-worldly.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Merl said:


> Thats only 2......come on Flamenco! 3 more!


I would say Gould's piano sonata no. 17 deserves a mention, mediocre as his Beethoven generally is. Hmm... maybe the Quartetto Italiano Razumovsky quartets.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

No such thing. .


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## Beethoven14 (Feb 14, 2019)

MarkW said:


> No such thing. .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

MarkW said:


> No such thing. .


Absolutely. With the plethora of Beethoven recordings - so many of them very fine - you cannot say 'greatest'. For a single work we might be able to get near that but even then it is a matter of opinion and preferences. Any overt dogmatism in these matters is plainly ridiculous.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Absolutely. With the plethora of Beethoven recordings - so many of them very fine - you cannot say 'greatest'. For a single work we might be able to get near that but even then it is a matter of opinion and preferences. Any overt dogmatism in these matters is plainly ridiculous.


My post very clearly and explicitly asks for opinions. In fact it is your reply that is dogmatic, ironically.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Opinions?
> 
> I nominate these five. Obviously I am considering only performance and not sound quality, but you are free to factor in sonics if you like. For me the music is paramount.


Are you sure, that there haven't been any great musicians since the end of the 78 RPM era?


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2019)

premont said:


> Are you sure, that there haven't been any great musicians since the end of the 78 RPM era?


The worse the sound the more you get to use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Nothing matches my sweet imagination.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

premont said:


> Are you sure, that there haven't been any great musicians since the end of the 78 RPM era?


Bit of an unfair, extreme statement to make from my post. I like the Vegh, Hungarian, Alban Berg, and Italian Quartets, Gilels, Richter, Rubinstein, and Pollini in the sonatas, Bernstein, Klemperer, Walter and Karajan in the symphonies, and Perlman in both the violin concerto and sonatas. But this topic is about the absolute greatest, my desert island choices. The greatest among the greats.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

An absolutely impossible question! But here's an attempt, deliberately avoiding any symphony...


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

My take:
Alban Berg Quartett, late string quartets (EMI)
Gilels, Hammerklavier (DG)
Pogorelich, Sonata 32, op. 111 (DG)
Kleiber, symph 5+7 (DG)
Bruggen II, Symph 9 (Glossa)

Nice question, fully depending on preferences and opinions, like 99,9% of TC:tiphat:


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Nowadays my favourite Beethoven recordings are often HIP. Give me Hogwood, Harnoncourt, Brüggen, Krivine any day and I'll be a very happy lad.

However, there are still many recordings done by modern big bands that have struck me as being absolutely amazing! (To say the obvious it does not have to be period instruments to make Beethoven work.) Therefore please allow me to share five of these, listed in chronological order -

Symphony No. 5 / Furtwängler / 1947 Live - What has left me awestruck is how every line is beautifully and purposely phrased that makes this super romantic account work. OK, it's made in 1947 so we don't hear much details but it's the line that matters here.









Symphony No. 4 / Mravinsky / 1955 Live - The most lively No. 4 that I've ever heard.









Symphony No. 7 / Karajan / 1978 Live - Electrifying atmosphere. I hope I'm not imagining things because of the poor sonics... XDDD









Piano Concerto No. 3 / Lupu/Mehta / 1979 - Haven't seen this talked about much here, but I absolutely love the poetry and the elegance.









Symphony No. 8 / Ádám Fischer / 2016 - Have to admit, straightly speaking Ádám Fischer's new set is HIP on modern instruments. For me, he has made Beethoven's most avant garde (?) symphony sound like what it should like, and I didn't expect that!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Kiki said:


> Symphony No. 8 / Ádám Fischer / 2016 - Have to admit, straightly speaking Ádám Fischer's new set is HIP on modern instruments. For me, he has made Beethoven's most avant garde (?) symphony sound like what it should like, and I didn't expect that!


Have you been reading my yet-to-be-posted next part of my LvB symphony cycle reviews, Kiki? Lol. I really like that Fischer set.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Merl said:


> Have you been reading my yet-to-be-posted next part of my LvB symphony cycle reviews, Kiki? Lol. I really like that Fischer set.


If I had the ability to manipulate the time-space continuum then let me assure you reading your next yet-to-be-posted cycle reviews would be high up on my to-do list!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Kiki said:


> If I had the ability to manipulate the time-space continuum then let me assure you reading your next yet-to-be-posted cycle reviews would be high up on my to-do list!


Awww shucks! What a charmer!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Merl said:


> Have you been reading my yet-to-be-posted next part of my LvB symphony cycle reviews, Kiki? Lol. I really like that Fischer set.


We don't need to now, you've spoiled the surprise!

I like Fischer, got a lot of very fine recordings by him, and his little brother. His Beethoven set is now on order, mainly because I think I will need a 52nd complete cycle.....:tiphat:


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Symphonies: Anima Eterna (Jos Van Immerseel)

Quartets: Alban Berg Quartet

Sonata's: not sure yet

Violin sonata's: Perlman + Ashkenazy


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Razumovskymas said:


> Symphonies: Anima Eterna (Jos Van Immerseel)
> 
> Sonata's: not sure yet


I have to give the plug to my guys Artur Schnabel and Wilhelm Kempff on this one. Each is worthy of serious consideration, but I feel like Schnabel is especially towering. Also, I really do not like his Beethoven generally, but Glenn Gould really is superlative in the three op.31 sonatas. He really exposes the innovation of these works. They were so ahead of their time!

I've heard the Immerseel/Anima Eterna Beethoven 5th. I just wasn't convinced, I don't think HIP Beethoven is for me. I'm not big on Gardiner or Norrington either. But I'll give Immerseel another shot, what's a really good symphony they've done?


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Ow I forgot Glenn Gould: I don't like his sonata's really, only as a curiosum or as a tool for analytics for someone who can't read sheet music hahaha. I think we all now he didn't take all of that too seriously.

But his piano concerto's are very good in my opinion, not slowed down like his sonata's and very passionate, Beethoven-worthy

For Van Immerseel I really like his approach, very clear sound, very fast and those horns are really shining. Maybe try the 2nd, 3th or 5th but maybe if his approach is not really your thing you should try the overtures (Coriolan, Egmont, Weihe des Hauses etc...) They're really something else compared to others, the firm tempo and tight sound really gives them a fresh sound!

For the sonata's I have a bit of a problem because I'm a "full cycle-guy" I heard really good sonata's but from pianists who didn't record a full cycle. Maybe I should let that obsession go and go after individual recordings.

I have the Wilhelm Kempff Cycle but it's recorded in a way it hurts my ears. I have a sensitivity for these upper-mid piano frequencies that some recordings seem to emphasize on.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Razumovskymas said:


> Ow I forgot Glenn Gould: I don't like his sonata's really, only as a curiosum or as a tool for analytics for someone who can't read sheet music hahaha. I think we all now he didn't take all of that too seriously.
> 
> But his piano concerto's are very good in my opinion, not slowed down like his sonata's and very passionate, Beethoven-worthy
> 
> ...


Look, I really agree with that generally speaking (with Gould). But he really was onto something special with the op.31 set. I heard these 3 sonatas played by him and went and bought the box set with all of the sonatas he recorded for Columbia (almost the complete cycle) and was seriously disappointed with everything else :lol:

His Beethoven concertos are all amazing!! His recordings are what convinced me to like these works.

You won't like Schnabel then, it's much more upper-mid register than Kempff, in shrill 1930s sound. Though I wouldn't use that terminology to describe the Kempff cycle that I have (the later, 1960s stereo on DG). Maybe you have the mono cycle...? From what I heard that one is mixed a little bit more on the trebly side. The stereo one is very warm and rich with good bass, I think.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I'm gonna have a look at the Schnabel AND Goulds op 31 (I have all his Beethoven Sonata's too)!

Thanks for the recommendations!


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Thanks likewise for the Immerseel! I'll have to check out his recordings of the overtures. I barely know those works.

I think you'll like the Gould. Not so sure about the Schnabel, as I said the sound quality leaves much to be desired. But as an interpreter, Schnabel stands alone.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I’m with Flame. Tried Immerseel to see what all the hubbub was about and came away cold. It just seems to entirely miss the point of Beethoven. 

Schnabel was a genius. Sloppy, poorly recorded, but genius. Clean, neat, and pretty is not Beethoven.


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## StrE3ss (Feb 20, 2019)

i wil say :









































i have so much more to discover...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> ...Clean, neat, and pretty is not Beethoven.


"Music should not be normal, well-bred, with its tie all neat." --Györgi Ligeti


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I wasn't going to reply to this thread...simply too many possibilities - 
anyway -

Sym #9 - Reiner/CSO

I might add Reiner's #5 and 6 as well...

Leonore Ov #3 - Szell/Cleveland


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't think it possible to list a "greatest ever" Beethoven recording. The field is too broad and there are too many contenders.

In my lifetime I would say Pollini's 1977 recording of the final five piano sonatas comes close but, as has already been argued, many great pianists have recorded the music.

That's true for everything from Beethoven -- even smaller or less-known works like the early chamber music, septet, songs and cantatas Der glorreiche Augenblick (the glorious moment) and Auf die Erhebung Leopold des Zweiten zur Kaiserwurde (On the elevation of Leopold the Second to the Imperial) are in a crowded field.

We learned that in the Beethoven bicentennial in 1970 when DG recorded everything he wrote...and then everyone else copied it. Now we are almost 50 years later, or halfway to the 300th anniversary of Beethoven's birth.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Off of the top of my head I would say that these 5 recordings are absolute essentials among my collection of Beethoven recordings:









Are there others? Certainly...

Any of these might have made the list on another day:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

^
Which Budapest Qt recording is that, the early mono, the Library of Congress, or stereo?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't know which version the above pictured CD is. I couldn't find the covers of my prefered versions: the set they made for Columbia in the early 1950s, playing the magnificent instruments owned by the Library of Congress. This is the one I know the best. But I also have the Sony set from the late 1950s-early 1960s.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

^Excellent choices, SLG! Karajan '63, Gardiner Missa, Kempff sonatas... all sublime. No String Quartet recordings in your top 5 though?! Though I must say I am still looking for the right recordings of the string quartets. I love the Quartetto Italiano middle quartets. The only complete set I have is the Colorado String Quartet MP3. I like it, but none of them is "greatest Beethoven recording of all time" caliber. I really want to get that Budapest Quartet cycle, or maybe the Alban Berg Quartett...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

We still need a great HIP LvB symphony cycle. None of those before us seem to me to qualify as the potentials for the "greatest Beethoven recording ever". Gardiner might have qualified but to me his set was all about his concept with less than enough care for the musical achievement. If you want to hear what I mean try out the live recordings of 5 and 7 that were made later. They care for the music as well as Gardiner's revolutionary idea and represent for me what he could have done if he hadn't rushed to record. I did quite enjoy van Immerseel's set when I first heard it but, really, I don't think you could use words like "great" or "essential" to describe any of the performances. Ultimately I find them a bland alternative for those who want HIP but can't take Gardiner. Harnoncourt recorded a great cycle - one of the greatest ever to my ear - but it is not HIP. He did record an excellent disc of 4 and 5 with the Concentus Musicus but that is the extent of his HIP Beethoven symphonies on record. Norrington doesn't really wake me up (I have heard the Beethoven symphonies so often that I really do need astonishingly good performances to enjoy them these days) and too much of Krivine puts me to sleep. So we have had some hints of what a great HIP cycle might achieve (the live Gardiners and the HIP Harnoncourt recordings - two symphonies each) but the field seems open for a full cycle.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> We still need a great HIP LvB symphony cycle. None of those before us seem to me to qualify as the potentials for the "greatest Beethoven recording ever". Gardiner might have qualified but to me his set was all about his concept with less than enough care for the musical achievement. If you want to hear what I mean try out the live recordings of 5 and 7 that were made later. They care for the music as well as Gardiner's revolutionary idea and represent for me what he could have done if he hadn't rushed to record. I did quite enjoy van Immerseel's set when I first heard it but, really, I don't think you could use words like "great" or "essential" to describe any of the performances. Ultimately I find them a bland alternative for those who want HIP but can't take Gardiner. Harnoncourt recorded a great cycle - one of the greatest ever to my ear - but it is not HIP. He did record an excellent disc of 4 and 5 with the Concentus Musicus but that is the extent of his HIP Beethoven symphonies on record. Norrington doesn't really wake me up (I have heard the Beethoven symphonies so often that I really do need astonishingly good performances to enjoy them these days) and too much of Krivine puts me to sleep. So we have had some hints of what a great HIP cycle might achieve (the live Gardiners and the HIP Harnoncourt recordings - two symphonies each) but the field seems open for a full cycle.


The perfect cycle is out there!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

A lot of great Beethoven recordings out there.
If I have to pick one, I choose Klemperer's stereo "Eroica".
Monumental imho.
Also, Bruno Walter's Pastoral


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> We still need a great HIP LvB symphony cycle. None of those before us seem to me to qualify as the potentials for the "greatest Beethoven recording ever". Gardiner might have qualified but to me his set was all about his concept with less than enough care for the musical achievement. If you want to hear what I mean try out the live recordings of 5 and 7 that were made later. They care for the music as well as Gardiner's revolutionary idea and represent for me what he could have done if he hadn't rushed to record. I did quite enjoy van Immerseel's set when I first heard it but, really, I don't think you could use words like "great" or "essential" to describe any of the performances. Ultimately I find them a bland alternative for those who want HIP but can't take Gardiner. Harnoncourt recorded a great cycle - one of the greatest ever to my ear - but it is not HIP. He did record an excellent disc of 4 and 5 with the Concentus Musicus but that is the extent of his HIP Beethoven symphonies on record. Norrington doesn't really wake me up (I have heard the Beethoven symphonies so often that I really do need astonishingly good performances to enjoy them these days) and too much of Krivine puts me to sleep. So we have had some hints of what a great HIP cycle might achieve (the live Gardiners and the HIP Harnoncourt recordings - two symphonies each) but the field seems open for a full cycle.


Try Bruggen II (Glossa), it's my ultimate HIP LvB cycle.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ OK, I will! .....


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> A lot of great Beethoven recordings out there.
> If I have to pick one, I choose Klemperer's stereo "Eroica".
> Monumental imho.


The first movement is anything but 'Allegroi con brio'. Sorry, far too slow


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

A few more very strong candidates for the best Beethoven recording ever - The Late Quartets from the Busch Quartet and the complete quartets from the Vegh Quartet (the ones pictured below, which are truly exceptional). I know all of the other quartet recommendations in this thread (mostly they are very good) but it is both of those sets that seem indispensable to me. For the Piano Sonatas - and although I can think of many other excellent sets and numerous individual performances - the sets from Kempff and Annie Fischer stand out of me (and are again indispensable as far as I am concerned). It helps that they are so very different from each other (and from any other sets I know).

View attachment 121611


I don't know any HIP versions of the Beethoven quartets (any recommendations?) but do know good few forte piano accounts of the sonatas. I value Brautigam's accounts very highly indeed and have often been surprised at how many people in this forum (perhaps those who have not spent some time with them?) see them as lacking. They have been represented by some (probably those who don't like forte pianos?) as "superficial" but have also been attacked by HIP fans, I'm not sure why. They are big performances.

I can't choose piano concerto recordings as there are so many excellent sets but Aimard with Harnoncourt stands out for its imagination and gentle reinvention. There are also many really great recordings of individual concertos. Gould's Emperor is exceptional, for example, but I don't think that much of his recordings of the other concertos.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

DavidA said:


> The first movement is anything but 'Allegroi con brio'. Sorry, far too slow


DavidA has spoken :lol:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

DavidA said:


> The first movement is anything but 'Allegroi con brio'. Sorry, far too slow


Any thoughts about why he decided to play it like that?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's my vote


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> DavidA has spoken :lol:


As is my right to give my opinion on TC.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Ah but you said it about one of the greatest Eroicas ever! You must expect a little flack for doing that!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Merl said:


> Have you been reading my yet-to-be-posted next part of my LvB symphony cycle reviews, Kiki? Lol. I really like that Fischer set.


Yes, it is the best of the new ones I have heard for a long time.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> The first movement is anything but 'Allegroi con brio'. Sorry, far too slow


But it works! I don't approach recordings with a litmus test. I approach with an open mind. Klemperer's stereo Eroica is without question one of the great exponents of the work in existence. There is a power and majesty you find with few others. If you want speed, listen to Toscanini '39. Both recordings are great and both entirely valid in their greatness.

Art is not about perfection. Art is about individual expression. You are either moved or you are not. Those that aim at simple mechanical (or "historical") perfection miss the point.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Any thoughts about why he decided to play it like that?


Klemperer did what he felt. That was part of his genius and part of what is sorely lacking in today's overanalytical world. It would be nice if musicians today spent less time educating us about what is "correct" and more time moving us by spiritually connecting with the music.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> As is my right to give my opinion on TC.


Absolutely! Keep speaking your mind. That is why we are all here, to trade opinions on our musical passion.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

My favorite string quartet sets, in order:

Busch (incomplete)
Budapest mono
Vegh stereo
Hungarian mono
Talich
Takacs
Italian
Lindsay
Alban Berg


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Klemperer did what he felt.


Are you sure?

I ask because Furtwangler wasn't so casual and self centred, however superficial his grasp of Schenkerian analysis was.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> I ask because Furtwangler wasn't so casual and self centred, however superficial his grasp of Schenkerian analysis was.


I never said casual. Quite the opposite! Klemperer did what he felt was RIGHT, and he was quite obstinate about it. The point I am making is the difference between intuitively grasping the score vs being a pedantic slave to what is written. Ultimately a truly great artist funnels the composer's vision through his own lens, and that is when true art occurs.

Trying to precisely reproduce the composer's intentions like a trained monkey is both futile and boring. Perhaps that is why we lack a great HIP symphony cycle.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I never said casual. Quite the opposite! Klemperer did what he felt was RIGHT, and he was quite obstinate about it. The point I am making is the difference between intuitively grasping the score vs being a pedantic slave to what is written. Ultimately a truly great artist funnels the composer's vision through his own lens, and that is when true art occurs.
> 
> Trying to precisely reproduce the composer's intentions like a trained monkey is both futile and boring. Perhaps that is why we lack a great HIP symphony cycle.


Intuition.

C,merncjke femjnqejfnrej


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Excellent choices, SLG! Karajan '63, Gardiner Missa, Kempff sonatas... all sublime.

Thanks. 

No String Quartet recordings in your top 5 though?! 

Honestly, I'm only now coming to really enjoy string quartets, trios, quintets, etc... Not that I disliked them before... but my preferences are for vocal music first (lieder, melodie, choral works, opera, etc...) followed by symphonic, concertos, and solo instrumental (Bach's Cello Suites, Beethoven's piano sonatas, etc...)

Though I must say I am still looking for the right recordings of the string quartets. I love the Quartetto Italiano middle quartets.

I owned a box set of the QI recordings... until my idiot son-in-law stole them and sold them back to a used-record store for a few bucks so he could afford the fuel his drug habit for another day or two.  He hasn't been allowed in our home for almost 10 years now.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Intuition.


Ultimately, the job of the performer is to maximize the impact of the score on the audience. If as a performer I merely try to slavishly reproduce what I think were the composer's instructions, but fail to spiritually connect with the music and move my audience, I am being quite CASUAL in my task as a performer. Yes, intuition is the ultimate barometer in knowing what will make an impact on the audience.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Ultimately, the job of the performer is to maximize the impact of the score on the audience. If as a performer I merely try to slavishly reproduce what I think were the composer's instructions, but fail to spiritually connect with the music and move my audience, I am being quite CASUAL in my task as a performer. Yes, intuition is the ultimate barometer in knowing what will make an impact on the audience.


Whether a performance has an impact on me depends a lot on my mood. Some things my friends like have no impact on me whatsoever, and vice versa.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> My favorite string quartet sets, in order:
> 
> Busch (incomplete)
> Budapest mono
> ...


A good list. I can disagree with some minor details of the order but this more or less coincides with my preferences. Which Lindsays' recording were you thinking of?


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> A good list. I can disagree with some minor details of the order but this more or less coincides with my preferences. Which Lindsays' recording were you thinking of?


I only know the early one on ASV


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> I ask because Furtwangler wasn't so casual and self centred, however superficial his grasp of Schenkerian analysis was.


A bloke who fathered 13 illegitimate children seems fairly causal to me!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Interestingly, I listened to the Lindsays' first cycle a few weeks ago and it was nice to hear it again. I like the gruffness and dark tone of their performances but what lets the set down, for me, is the sudden violence of their attacks (which at times feel inappropriately harsh). The Veghs {stereo set} do it much better and without some of the Lindsays' intonation issues (although the Veghs are rough and ready occasionally) and hard, glassy sound (not their fault.... just the ASV recording}. The second Lindsays set is not good at all. In fact, I'd say its one of the worst I've heard. I'm currently relistening to the Alexander,'s 2nd set and it's just superb (Foghorn).


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I owned a box set of the QI recordings... until my idiot son-in-law stole them and sold them back to a used-record store for a few bucks so he could afford the fuel his drug habit for another day or two.  He hasn't been allowed in our home for almost 10 years now.


Really a shame, sorry to hear that. It's not a cheap set either...!

I'm honestly not a huge fan of Beethoven's symphonies. They're great and all, definitely a big achievement, but not really something I listen to for pleasure, though I have been listening and enjoying the 9th a bit lately, I also like the first 4 quite a bit. I would never say the same for the string quartets. That is an endlessly fascinating, totally enjoyable/listenable body of works. I didn't like them at all at first myself, I thought they kind of paled in comparison to those of Mozart, Haydn, Shostakovich, etc. Then one day a few months ago, something clicked while I was listening and reading along with a score to one of the middle quartets. Finding the beauty in the string quartets really renewed my interest in and respect for Beethoven.

... this is to say nothing of the piano sonatas, which I love even more...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I omitted a great one....wasn't thinking

Sym #3 "Eroica" - Toscanini/NBC/ 1949, 

to go with my previous listing:

Sym #9 - Reiner/CSO

I might add Reiner's #5 and 6 as well...

Leonore Ov #3 - Szell/Cleveland

Late String 4tets - plenty of good ones:

Budapest, Alban Berg....hard to just name individuals tho...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

^That 1939 Toscanini/NBC Eroica is on fire. Surely worthy of this conversation. I have not heard the 1949.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

flamencosketches said:


> ^That 1939 Toscanini/NBC Eroica is on fire. Surely worthy of this conversation. I have not heard the 1949.


The AT/NBC Eroicas of '39, '49 and '53 are all excellent - but for me, the '49 has a special flow, intensity that exceeds the others...It's my Eroica of choice, along with Reiner '54 and von Matacic/CzPO/'59


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> A bloke who fathered 13 illegitimate children seems fairly causal to me!


How many illegitimate children did Karajan father?


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

The reason I like the '39 Toscanini is that I want to hear Toscanini at full throttle, doing what he does best. Similarly, this is why I prefer the stereo Klemperer to the earlier, fleeter mono version. The stereo shows Klemperer doing what he does best, moving forward with an intransigent, inevitable flow that compels you more the further you listen. That was his genius.

But the greatest Eroica is Furtwangler 1944. Easily a Top 10 great Beethoven recording, perhaps even the greatest of all. No one did the Marcia funebre better.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> No one did the Marcia funebre better.


I prefer Pfitzner, and indeed Mengelberg and Klemperer. More noble and heroic, less bloated. And that's just thinking of very old performances.

Pfitzner's Eroica is my favourite old time Beethoven recording.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I prefer Pfitzner, and indeed Mengelberg and Klemperer. More noble and heroic, less bloated. And that's just thinking of very old performances.
> 
> Pfitzner's Eroica is my favourite old time Beethoven recording.


Thanks for reminding me I need to investigate the Mengelbergs. I have tended not to like his Beethoven so much as he makes interpretive decisions that often sound arbitrary. His Brahms 1st is excellent though, and of course his St Matthew Passion is timeless.

I have at last count 27 Eroicas on disc and have heard several more.

My working ranked list:

Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944) (Tahra, Orfeo, Music & Arts, Preiser, Andromeda)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (12/8/1952) (Tahra, Music & Arts)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1950) (Tahra)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953) (EMI Great Conductors)
Otto Klemperer (1957) (Testament)
Otto Klemperer (1959) (EMI)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1952) (EMI)
Arturo Toscanini (1939) (RCA, Music & Arts, Naxos)
Sir John Barbirolli (Dutton)
Herbert von Karajan (1984) (DG)
Erich Kleiber (1950) (Decca)
Paul van Kempen (Philips)
Otto Klemperer (1955) (EMI)
Rudolf Kempe (1961) (Testament)
Karl Böhm (1961) (DG)
Hans Pfitzner (Preiser, Naxos, DG)
Felix Weingartner (Naxos, Opus)
Erich Kleiber (1955) (Decca)
Bruno Walter (1941) (Dante Lys)
Herbert von Karajan (1962) (DG)
Hermann Abendroth (1949) (Music & Arts)
Sir Colin Davis (Philips)
William Steinberg (EMI, XXI)
Eugen Jochum (DG)
Karl Böhm (1972) (DG)
Bruno Walter (Sony)
Leonard Bernstein (Sony)
Arturo Toscanini (1953) (RCA)
Eugene Ormandy (Sony)
Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt (Decca)
Andre Cluytens (EMI, Royal Classics)
Carl Schuricht (DG, Profil, Dante Lys)
Evgeny Mravinsky (Classical Masters)
Hermann Scherchen (1958) (MCA, Westminster)
Arturo Toscanini (1949) (Music & Arts)
Arturo Toscanini (1938) (Music & Arts)
Arturo Toscanini (1945) (Music & Arts)
Nikolaus Harnoncourt (Elatus, Teldec)
Eugen Jochum (1937) (Teldec, Magic Talent)
Jascha Horenstein (1957) (Vox)
Bruno Walter (1957) (Music & Arts)
Eugen Jochum (Philips)
Bruno Walter (1949) (United Archives, Urania, Dante Lys)
Pierre Monteux (Decca)
George Szell (Sony)
Carlo Maria Giulini (DG)
Leopold Stokowski (RCA)
Sir Adrian Boult (Vanguard)
Rudolf Kempe (1973) (EMI)
Eugen Jochum (EMI)
Eugen Jochum (1977) (Tahra)
Leonard Bernstein (DG)
Sir Thomas Beecham (Sony)
Rafael Kubelik (DG, Belart)
Sir Neville Marriner (Philips)
Sir Simon Rattle (EMI)
Gunter Wand (Testament)
Herbert von Karajan (1977) (DG)
James Levine (DG)
Sir Simon Rattle (EMI)
Jordi Savall (AliaVox)
Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI)
Roger Norrington (EMI, Virgin)
Kurt Masur (Philips)
Claudio Abbado (BPO) (DG)
Günter Wand (1989) (RCA)
Charles Mackerras (EMI, Classics for Pleasure)
Herbert Blomstedt (Decca)
Victor de Sabata (Decca)
Fritz Reiner (1955) (RCA)
Erich Leinsdorf (RCA)
David Zinman (Arte Nova)
Franz Konwitschny (Berlin Classics)
Josef Krips (Everest, Madacy)
John Eliot Gardiner (DG Archiv)


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Yeah, the 1939 Toscanini Eroica would have to be on my list as well.

René Leibowitz's 9th

Hm, so many choices. This is hard.

Viktoria Mullova Kreutzer Sonata (though I dearly love the Oistrakh/Levin one as well)

String Trio op.3 Heifetz/Primrose/Piatagorsky

Klemperer Missa Solemnis

I wanted to come up with a piano sonata but couldn't land on just one.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Enthusiast said:


> A few more very strong candidates for the best Beethoven recording ever - The Late Quartets from the Busch Quartet and the complete quartets from the Vegh Quartet (the ones pictured below, which are truly exceptional). I know all of the other quartet recommendations in this thread (mostly they are very good) but it is both of those sets that seem indispensable to me. For the Piano Sonatas - and although I can think of many other excellent sets and numerous individual performances - the sets from Kempff and Annie Fischer stand out of me (and are again indispensable as far as I am concerned). It helps that they are so very different from each other (and from any other sets I know).
> 
> View attachment 121611
> 
> ...


The Smithson String Quartet recorded Op. 18. A great recording with remarkably good sound for an early CD (now OOP).

I know Quatour Mosaiques has recorded Op. 18 and the Late Quartets. I like their Haydn recordings a lot.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

This is perhaps the Beethoven symphony that people care about the least but the Steinberg/Pittsburgh recording makes it seem like a special and underrated work to me. Not because it plumbs the tragic depths (there are none) but because it is supremely sunny and structurally perfect.









Good luck finding it.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Open Book said:


> This is perhaps the Beethoven symphony that people care about the least but the Steinberg/Pittsburgh recording makes it seem like a special and underrated work to me. Not because it plumbs the tragic depths (there are none) but because it is supremely sunny and structurally perfect.
> 
> View attachment 121751
> 
> ...


Steinberg/PittsSO did an outstanding LvB #5 on Command, as well...too bad these never made it to CD, at least, tmk...


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Open Book said:


> This is perhaps the Beethoven symphony that people care about the least but the Steinberg/Pittsburgh recording makes it seem like a special and underrated work to me. Not because it plumbs the tragic depths (there are none) but because it is supremely sunny and structurally perfect.
> 
> View attachment 121751
> 
> ...


Yup, that's a good one. I rank it right up there with Karajan, Klemperer, Walter and Bohm.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

A few more classics:


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