# Should we expect opera singers to act?



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Many great singers in opera have been less than convincing actors. Joan Sutherland was one who was more concerned with her vocals and stage presence than acting. As she told Susan Heller Anderson of the New York Times, "If you want to see a wonderful actress, you go to see a straight play. … You can't be as emotionally involved when you sing as when you're acting. There are many singing actresses who do the sort of roles that don't demand the vocal techniques of bel canto."
Should we expect opera singers to also be good actors on stage? Or is the voice alone enough?


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This reminds me of the question:

"Do dogs go to heaven?"

Answer: "No, they don't!"

Should opera singers act?

Answer: "Yes, they should"

N.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I guess the issue is _how_ they should act. For the galleria or for the camera of a recording/telecast? I'm from the land of Shakespeare (and Judi Dench), so I value great acting.

And yet... I'm a sucker for the moments when a singer moves front of stage and just delivers a great aria. Bottom line, great voices singing great tunes for me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

It makes the director look incompetent if the singers stand on stage and do nothing but sing in fancy dress........


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> It makes the director look incompetent if the singers stand on stage and do nothing but sing in fancy dress........


Put on a costume, sing your heart out. That's my ideal opera performance.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Some operas benefit from good acting more than others.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Certainly they should act, and it should be a natural part of the performance. They are entering a character and representing him/her. I think directors pay considerable attention to that today. 
How much they should act, how much they should move, is an individual matter. Rita Hunter, famously, could not climb 3 steps and sing, but if she didn't have to move she was a superb singer.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

We should expect opera singers to act and they should expect us to forgive them, if they fall short of the task and give us less than brilliant acting. The logic of the artform says: I'm music and drama - you have to sing and act me out, no reprieve. The logic of life, though, brings us to ask: if what we praise as fine opera singer emerges after many years of hard musical training supported by extraordinary musical talent, how could you boo the final product for being "only" one-sidedly extraordinary? In how many disciplines of art do you excell, good sir? A complete artist who could ravish your ears, eyes and whatever else you perceive opera with is nothing short of a miracle. Opera isn't reasonably designed vehicle. It calls for more talent-fuel that this world can support for a continuous flight. That is why we must lower our standards and can expect attempts on acting, but can't damand and take for granted that these will be satisfying.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> Some operas benefit from good acting more than others.


Good point. I suspect our ideas about acting have been influenced most by film and TV, where naturalism in acting is the general ideal. But opera is a stylized art, and different periods and styles of opera suggest different styles of acting. That dramatic paragon, Callas, knew this, drew her manner of acting from the music, and varied her acting style depending on whether she was performing a more stylized work such as Medea or a highly naturalistic one such as Tosca. We can see these differences even in still photographs. Music led, the manner of acting followed.

Yes, singers should strive to act convincingly, but we should not be too rigid in our expectation of what that entails, or bring preconceptions drawn from other dramatic forms. Sometimes just striking an eloquent pose and singing beautifully is precisely the acting required.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> Put on a costume, sing your heart out. That's my ideal opera performance.


Hear hear :cheers:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

There are some really fine singers who struggle to act and I wouldn't want them to act realistically to the detriment of their singing.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> Put on a costume, sing your heart out. That's my ideal opera performance.


...and when you see and hear someone in a costume, singing thier heart out AND acting up a storm, isn't that something even better than 'ideal'?  Do you keep your eyes shut at the Opera? Don't the best singers act with their voice? Judy Dench does.

Yes its hard to do all things well but we spend our time on here discussing the best that music has to offer and when it comes to Opera why limit your choices to a "2 dimensional" characterisation when more is available.

Me thinks you went to far in seeking a pithy line.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

I think we should expect them to act also, but not if they just can't. There is no point in doing something if it seems forced or unnatural. Like Tebaldi said that if you do something without really feeling it the public will notice. If you do something because you feel it the public will feel it. Tebaldi wasn't exactly known for her acting, but I think she has a point. Every singer should do what comes to them naturally.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Belowpar said:


> ...and when you see and hear someone in a costume, singing thier heart out AND acting up a storm, isn't that something even better than 'ideal'?  Do you keep your eyes shut at the Opera? Don't the best singers act with their voice? Judy Dench does.
> 
> Yes its hard to do all things well but we spend our time on here discussing the best that music has to offer and when it comes to Opera why limit your choices to a "2 dimensional" characterisation when more is available.
> 
> Me thinks you went to far in seeking a pithy line.


Perhaps, but given that we can rarely have it all, I'll settle for as I described, although I do like singers to be emotionally immersed in their part, and let their singing come from that.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There's another point here, what do we mean by act?

In general and in this thread it is being used to mean act visually. What about vocal acting? In fact, Don Fatale above has voiced a preference for a singer to be "emotionally immersed in their part". Surely that is part of vocal acting. The use of vocal colours to express a line and the way a singer uses the composer's music to produce a dramatic delivery of the text are not mentioned as much as they could be.

N.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

In my view, an opera singer should be first and foremost a vocal actor, capable of expressing the drama through singing.

Of course, each opera, each period, is different. It's not the same _Lulu_, than _Norma_. But vocal acting, is always paramount.

Personally, I love very much vocal actors, such as Maria Callas that was mentioned above. I'm pretty much indifferent (in Opera) to actors that sing.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Hear hear :cheers:


In other words, a concert in costume. Then why bother staging it at all?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Like it or not, opera is a show biz game these days. Not only should singers learn to act, but sadly, being a visual medium, they need to look good too. No more Eaglens will be getting the jobs when you can have a Netrebko, Fleming, Garanca and Gheorghiu, etc. And those few who do get cast are lucky because their pipes passed the test.
The better the actor, the more likely to be cast, assuming the voice of the singer is still in top notch category (and there are plenty of those to choose from today).


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> In other words, a concert in costume. Then why bother staging it at all?


Given the stagings we are subjected to in many modern productions it would be an improvement to just have singers in costumes.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

nina foresti said:


> Like it or not, opera is a show biz game these days. Not only should singers learn to act, but sadly, being a visual medium, they need to look good too. No more Eaglens will be getting the jobs when you can have a Netrebko, Fleming, Garanca and Gheorghiu, etc. And those few who do get cast are lucky because their pipes passed the test.
> The better the actor, the more likely to be cast, assuming the voice of the singer is still in top notch category (and there are plenty of those to choose from today).


Of course this is accentuated by live cinema broadcasts and DVD where the camera is unforgiving. Whereas a singer might have passed for a young man / woman at one time from the back of the stalls, the camera now shows their age as well as their size. I must confess I enjoy an opera with singers who look the age they are supposed to and also at least show some talent in acting out the part. I think it was the Chearau Ring )whatever one's opinion of the staging) that made people realise just how opera should be acted as well as sung.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> Given the stagings we are subjected to in many modern productions it would be an improvement to just have singers in costumes.


One shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Admittedly I recently saw an awful production of *La Boheme* at the ENO, which made me think I would far rather have been seeing a concert in costume, though, given the standard of the singing, that wouldn't have afforded much pleasure either. It was a massive disappointment, given I don't get to live opera often these days.

On the other hand, about a year ago I saw a superb production of *Rigoletto* at Covent Garden. The Duke was a bit wooden, both dramatically and vocally (though he looked splendid), but everyone else, especially Simon Keenlyside as Rigoletto, were wonderful actors _and_ singers. Supremely moving and involving. That, to me, is the sort of performance opera should be striving towards.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> In other words, a concert in costume. Then why bother staging it at all?


Although I don't think that personal operatic taste can be simplified to an easy dialectic, there are signs of two schools of thought emerging:

1) On the one hand there are people who perceive opera as sung drama; and
2) on the other people who view it as a staged music concert.

In very general and broad terms those in group 1 are more attracted by vocal actors and artists who excel at word painting, expression and acting (both vocal and visual), whereas the second group focus more on aesthetic qualities of the voice (such as beauty of tone) and intonation.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Although I don't think that personal operatic taste can be simplified to an easy dialectic, there are signs of two schools of thought emerging:
> 
> 1) On the one hand there are people who perceive opera as sung drama; and
> 2) on the other people who view it as a staged music concert.
> ...


Or to put it another way, those in group 2 couldn't care less what is supposed to be going on, as long as it sounds pretty! :devil:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Obviously, opera was invented before the age of film, and filmed closeups of singers are automatically an intrusion upon theatrical illusion and have probably given some of us unrealistic expectations of how singers should look and act. It's absurd to expect people with voices capable of doing justice to the difficult music of opera to look exactly like our ideal images of the characters they portray, and not always reasonable to expect them to act realistically while executing complex coloratura, holding long high B-flats, and dominating an orchestra. People don't do those things in real life, and there is really no real-life way of doing them. If the soprano and tenor portraying Tristan and Isolde are beautiful, slender, and young and look great on film, we are not likely to hear Wagner's powerful and taxing music sounding much like he wanted it to sound. The first Tristan and Isolde, Ludwig and Malvina Schnorr von Carolsfeld, were quite substantial physically, and Wagner was very happy with their performances. Not all roles make such extreme demands on singers, but we shouldn't forget how demanding operatic singing can be.

We're all entitled to our tastes and requirements for personal enjoyment, but we'll miss out on a lot of potential enjoyment if we can't accept the reality of what it means, in an imperfect universe, to sing opera. Singers should of course keep themselves looking as good as they can and act as well as they can, and I do have the impression that the modern epidemic of obesity is affecting many of the young singers coming along, despite the increased demand for good looks; most of the great singers of past eras were not really fat. What their acting was like before opera was filmed, we can never precisely know, but we can certainly hear how well they sang. If anyone at the moment sang Tristan and Isolde like Leider and Lorenz or Flagstad and Melchior I'd happily put up with a few extra pounds of flesh and less than brilliant acting, but my suspicion is that those people acted quite tolerably well too. Audiences were certainly very happy to come, hear, and see them.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> In other words, a concert in costume. Then why bother staging it at all?


You know very well that I replied to a other member.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

We must also remember that it is only relatively recently that opera audiences sat quietly and listened. For many the opera was a time to socialise. Wagner was considered revolutionary when he constructed Bayreuth for watching rather than socialising. Hence early opera audiences were probably not too demanding as folks today as half the time they weren't paying too much attention.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Pugg said:


> You know very well that I replied to a other member.


Indeed, and I thought my reply would be considered a response to both of you, as evidently it was by the original poster (Don Fatale). Or would you prefer I don't respond to any of your posts?


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

I just saw this on the BBC news site and thought I'd pitch it in, as it seemed relevant; an opera with an actor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34796350


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Or to put it another way, those in group 2 couldn't care less what is supposed to be going on, as long as it sounds pretty! :devil:


That's a pretty bad faith argument. Being predominantly interested in the musical expression as opposed to the written narrative isn't equivalent to only wanting things to sound pretty, or do you believe everyone who listens to non-operatic music is only interested in things sounding pretty?


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

One of my favorite singers, Giorgio Zancanaro, had a reputation in some quarters for being a stiff actor, but then there's another camp that thinks he was one of the better actors. His acting seemed better suited for television and film opera productions than the stage, it seems to me. I can see where his restrained acting style probably didn't travel well past the second row. Then there are people who saw him live and thought he was one of the best singing actors they'd ever seen. As for what part of acting should be separate from singing, Zancanaro had a very interesting stage mannerism which I've thought other opera singers ought to steal. Even when he didn't have lines to sing, he would often make as if his character had something to say (just before the other character in the scene would start singing their "line," thus "interrupting" his character). It made him seem very present in the scene, heightened the drama (not calling attention to himself, but to the situation and his character's motivations and inner state), and seemed like a non-operatic acting technique effectively adapted for the opera stage. In other words, to Zancanaro, duets were conversations.

And yeah, it's a good debate to have, because honestly, if there is an opera film or videotaped stage performance, I'd like to see some acting.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Zefferelli Paggliacci - the singers look exactly as they should with Stratas a beautiful Nedda who any Silvio would fall for.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

DavidA said:


> Many great singers in opera have been less than convincing actors. Joan Sutherland was one who was more concerned with her vocals and stage presence than acting. As she told Susan Heller Anderson of the New York Times, "If you want to see a wonderful actress, you go to see a straight play. … You can't be as emotionally involved when you sing as when you're acting. There are many singing actresses who do the sort of roles that don't demand the vocal techniques of bel canto."
> Should we expect opera singers to also be good actors on stage? Or is the voice alone enough?


Yes. Also emote. No extended sobbing and/or moaning though.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Or to put it another way, those in group 2 couldn't care less what is supposed to be going on, as long as it sounds pretty! :devil:


Ooooooh!

You and I both know that we are in group one, but that's no reason to look down on people in group two.

Chacun a son gout!

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> The Zefferelli Paggliacci - the singers look exactly as they should with Stratas a beautiful Nedda who any Silvio would fall for.


Stratas is superb in this film, the best thing in it in my opinion. There is so much sub-text going on. You see from the way she plays with the children that this is a woman who longs for children of her own. Her Nedda is not the conventional tart. She is a warm, passionate woman trapped in a childless marriage to an older, controlling man.

Stratas is the perfect example of a singer with a less than first rate voice, who is a superb stage animal. But, though the voice was not a great one, she certainly knew how to use it. Many, many years ago I saw her play Susanna at Covent Garden. I can't remember who else was in the cast, but I do remember Stratas, and the magical effect she created in Susanna's _Deh vieni_.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Opera singers should act, and I think that most of them can act at least adequately if they have strong direction. Generally, you can't expect Method-style acting from an opera singer, but you can expect them to move well and appear involved in the role, at least.

And, DavidA, I'd question the idea that Joan Sutherland was not a very good actress. Maybe _she_ didn't think she could act or that acting was all that important (I read that as a schoolgirl she had a terrible time with feeling awkward and ugly in drama class); but I've seen some videos of her and, while she wasn't Callas or Stratas, she seemed quite convincing to me, especially as Lucia di Lammermoor. Certainly she did a lot more than simply stand and sing.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Here's an example of what I was referring to above with Sutherland. I especially like the desperate look she gives Paul Plishka as the minister shortly before she collapses:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bellinilover said:


> Opera singers should act, and I think that most of them can act at least adequately if they have strong direction. Generally, you can't expect Method-style acting from an opera singer, but you can expect them to move well and appear involved in the role, at least.
> 
> And, DavidA, I'd question the idea that Joan Sutherland was not a very good actress. Maybe _she_ didn't think she could act or that acting was all that important (I read that as a schoolgirl she had a terrible time with feeling awkward and ugly in drama class); but I've seen some videos of her and, while she wasn't Callas or Stratas, she seemed quite convincing to me, especially as Lucia di Lammermoor. Certainly she did a lot more than simply stand and sing.


And you only need to listen to the second studio Norma to realise that she could act vocally as well.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I prefer it, but a really great voice can trump it. I'd give anything to have been able to have heard Stignani, Milanov, or Traubel live, all of whom were notoriously wooden on stage but spun out pure gold with their throat.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> Here's an example of what I was referring to above with Sutherland. I especially like the desperate look she gives Paul Plishka as the minister shortly before she collapses:


Sutherland was not naturally a very good actress, but she labored very hard with Zeffirelli and her acting coach at Covent Garden on Lucia, and she fully realized the part on stage and it became the role most identified with her over decades. Yes, Callas was a genius on stage, but Sutherland was a very good actress with Lucia. Even Callas was impressed with what she did.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

They should at least try to act! Opera is a dramatic medium after all. No one expects superb acting from an opera cast, but we do expect the cast to look like they care about the presentation.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> Opera singers should act, and I think that most of them can act at least adequately if they have strong direction. Generally, you can't expect Method-style acting from an opera singer, but you can expect them to move well and appear involved in the role, at least.
> 
> *And, DavidA, I'd question the idea that Joan Sutherland was not a very good actress.* Maybe _she_ didn't think she could act or that acting was all that important (I read that as a schoolgirl she had a terrible time with feeling awkward and ugly in drama class); but I've seen some videos of her and, while she wasn't Callas or Stratas, she seemed quite convincing to me, especially as Lucia di Lammermoor. Certainly she did a lot more than simply stand and sing.


I didn't actually say that. What I said was: "Joan Sutherland was one who was more concerned with her vocals and stage presence than acting." This is true based on the quote I gave from her and from other interviews I heard her give. That's not to say she couldn't act but that it wasn't her priority.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Stratas is superb in this film, the best thing in it in my opinion. There is so much sub-text going on. You see from the way she plays with the children that this is a woman who longs for children of her own. Her Nedda is not the conventional tart. She is a warm, passionate woman trapped in a childless marriage to an older, controlling man.
> 
> *Stratas is the perfect example of a singer with a less than first rate voice, who is a superb stage animal. *But, though the voice was not a great one, she certainly knew how to use it. Many, many years ago I saw her play Susanna at Covent Garden. I can't remember who else was in the cast, but I do remember Stratas, and the magical effect she created in Susanna's _Deh vieni_.


Yes. You really need to see her as well as hear her. She is superb.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

SHOULD they have fair to good acting skills as well? Yes, they should because opera is musical theatre. That's my "generalist" answer. Is good acting important to me personally? Not really, as 95% of my opera consumption is audio alone.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Sonata said:


> SHOULD they have fair to good acting skills as well? Yes, they should because opera is musical theatre. That's my "generalist" answer. Is good acting important to me personally? Not really, as 95% of my opera consumption is audio alone.


There are some singers one would prefer just to hear. As someone said to me once: "Your face is made for radio!" :lol:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

yes, but subtly, not running across the stage doing all kinds of tricks and acrobatics. if you want to see that, go to the circus or the theater


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Talking about singing and acting:
​May not be the best know singer in the world but its a damn good production :tiphat:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I didn't actually say that. What I said was: "Joan Sutherland was one who was more concerned with her vocals and stage presence than acting." This is true based on the quote I gave from her and from other interviews I heard her give. That's not to say she couldn't act but that it wasn't her priority.


Sorry -- you're absolutely correct that you didn't directly say she was a poor actress. Many people seem to think she was, however, and I would think videos like the one above would set them straight. And yes, Sutherland did say something like, "If people want great acting, they should go to a straight play."


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Try this for singing and acting. I know it's a concert performance but how Carolyn Sampson acts it out! Begin at 26:29 for "Myself I shall adore"


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Stratas is superb in this film, the best thing in it in my opinion. There is so much sub-text going on. You see from the way she plays with the children that this is a woman who longs for children of her own. Her Nedda is not the conventional tart. She is a warm, passionate woman trapped in a childless marriage to an older, controlling man.
> 
> Stratas is the perfect example of a singer with a less than first rate voice, who is a superb stage animal. But, though the voice was not a great one, she certainly knew how to use it. Many, many years ago I saw her play Susanna at Covent Garden. I can't remember who else was in the cast, but I do remember Stratas, and the magical effect she created in Susanna's _Deh vieni_.


Just looking at this Pagliacci again - what a superb actor Domingo was. In fact all the cast are brilliant.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> highly naturalistic one such as Tosca.


I prefer an exagarrated Tosca where the soprano acts like she was playing Bianca Castafiore.


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