# MEZZO/CONTRALTO TOURNAMENT (By Request): Obraztsova vs Baltsa



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Elene Obraztsova, Russia, 1939-2015






Agnes Baltsa, Greece, 1944-






'Voi lo sapete' from Mascagni's _Cavalleria Rusticana_.

Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

If we are talking about pure passion and true depth of character more than anything else then my vote enthusiastically must go to Obraztsova even though I recognize that as a Santuzza her voice is more contralto than soprano or mezzo. But damn! She really pulls out all the stops and to me that's what opera should be all about.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

They are both truly magnificent so this is hard. As a physical actress Baltsa has an edge. Obraztsova, who could be Melania Trump's aunt but is hopefully nicer, simply blew me away with her mammoth, beautiful, orgasmic voice. Boy howdy, I had never heard her before and to show up Baltsa is no small task. I wonder who generally tends to sing this role better: mezzos or sopranos?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> If we are talking about pure passion and true depth of character more than anything else then my vote enthusiastically must go to Obraztsova even though I recognize that as a Santuzza her voice is more contralto than soprano or mezzo. But damn! She really pulls out all the stops and to me that's what opera should be all about.


Right on, sista.


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## Operasinger (May 28, 2021)

Wow! Never heard Baltsa sing like this before. Thanks for posting! It’s so interesting cause they’re both trying to do similar things, both performances are not perfect, and both performances are beautiful and powerful.
I wish Baltsa would have worked those transitions more, and Obraztsova would have eliminated the nasality from her high notes.
Obraztsova definitely win with her devotion to the character though!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm not sure how much of my hesitation over Baltsa's performance is due to her and how much to her conductor and orchestra, which is clearly a pickup group and sounds limp and somnolent whenever the music isn't loud and propulsive. I don't care for the harsh, braying quality this music brings out in Baltsa's chest voice, or for some of her dynamic shifts. Santuzza is not a subtle character. I can't say, though, that she doesn't sing passionately and well. Obraztsova? Has there yet been a hurricane named Elena? Maybe she sounds less like a hapless Sicilian girl than like Medea lamenting her betrayal by Jason, but like hurricane winds and sorcery, she's hard to stand against. Her voice is integrated from top to bottom, with no shift between registers, and superb at both ends. That said, Baltsa is warmer and more human; I admire Obraztsova, but I don't find either hurricanes or sorceresses lovable. I'll have to go with Baltsa, who allows me to visualize and identify with the character.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

There are better versions from Baltsa out there (as Woodduck says the orchestra is woeful) but I'm still granting her the palm. For all the glories of Obraztsova's voice, I've never taken to her in anything. There is absolutely nothing of Santuzza or her sad plight here. It's all just too way over the top. With a Santuzza like this, I'm not in the least suprised to hear Turiddu ran for the hills and found solace elsewhere. Baltsa is more in character and gives us so much more light and shade. 

Santuzza is one of those roles that is sung by both sopranos and mezzos, but, as this is a mezzo challenge, we won't be hearing any of my favourite versions, who all tend to be sopranos; Muzio, Callas, Souliotis, Scotto, Tebaldi and De Los Angeles, all of whom remind us that Santuzza is not some barnstorming temptress but just a simple young girl abandoned by the man who seduced her.


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

Depends whether you prefer con belto to something more subtle!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Parley said:


> Depends whether you prefer con belto to something more subtle!


I've never been a fan of con belto, or can belto, as I usually call it.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Elena is good, but sounds to me very artificial for this role. This intonation of the words doesn't need. Makes the whole thing unnatural. Agnes is maybe the top MS around (MS pure, solid not something like MS) and with this role smashes the competition with the maturity and simplicity of her voice. I want to say something: I like the easiness in every kind of art. The great but effortless results. Sit in front of the piano and play like Earl, Vladimir, Arturo etc. Be natural, easy and well looking. Go to the stage and be your self (first) and after the hero and nothing more or less. Acting is also SUPER important. ALL the artists must be good actors. Also the instrument players. So, when I see a video, I can vote for a inferior voice (here Agnes is also superior) due to the scenic appearance. Thanks for the video (Bonetan) and the friends for the comments. Such games drive the community forward.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I'm not sure how much of my hesitation over Baltsa's performance is due to her* and how much to her conductor and orchestra, *which is clearly a pickup group and sounds limp and somnolent whenever the music isn't loud and propulsive. I don't care for the harsh, braying quality this music brings out in Baltsa's chest voice, or for some of her dynamic shifts. Santuzza is not a subtle character. I can't say, though, that she doesn't sing passionately and well. Obraztsova? Has there yet been a hurricane named Elena? Maybe she sounds less like a hapless Sicilian girl than like Medea lamenting her betrayal by Jason, but like hurricane winds and sorcery, she's hard to stand against. Her voice is integrated from top to bottom, with no shift between registers, and superb at both ends. That said, Baltsa is warmer and more human; I admire Obraztsova, but I don't find either hurricanes or sorceresses lovable. I'll have to go with Baltsa, who allows me to visualize and identify with the character.


The Greek's don't have the orchestral tradition the Russians have, but someone must tell them (the Russians) that the Italian scholl has it own rules and the MUST learn them. It isn't the first time they murder an Italian composer. (and the Germans have our issues with the Italian scholl. Maybe we consider it easier, lighter, with more freedom etc. like many pianists consider the music of Liszt. SUPER, MEGA mistake!)


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Both singers are surely powerhouses in a "take no prisoners" kind of way, this is what I am looking for in this opera.
Well, I might be biased or sort-of imprinted but the white-hot Elena is my choice here. Agnes demonstrates slightly harsh chest voice while Elena is amazingly consistent in the full range. I witnessed one of her full concert performances of Cavalleria Rusticana and it was tremendous experience. Hurricane Elena indeed


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I voted for Obraztsova, but I understand the opposing position for sure. In this case, I'm just not invested in the character enough to care as much about the interpretation.


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I voted for Obraztsova, but I understand the opposing position for sure. In this case, I'm just not invested in the character enough to care as much about the interpretation.


That just says where we differ.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Parley said:


> That just says where we differ.


Baltsa is a fine singer. I have no complaints about anyone liking her work


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Baltsa is a fine singer. I have no complaints about anyone liking her work


Very good of you!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Parley said:


> Very good of you!


Were you sent to TC specifically to troll BalalaikaBoy?? :lol:


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Having initially been hooked by Obraztsova's extraordinary volume - her voice is solid from top to bottom in a way which Baltsa's is not - I found it just too unrelentingly loud. Baltsa for me, this time.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

Bonetan said:


> Were you sent to TC specifically to troll BalalaikaBoy?? :lol:


I was thinking the exact same thing! :lol:


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

I have an active dislike of Baltsa's voice. She's got a great big hole in the middle of it and she has to drag her chest voice up way high to try and cover it up. Obraztsova is a force of nature and (in my opinion) a much better singer. Baltsa did some lovely singing in her early days, in particular of Rossini. But then Karajan got hold of her and had her singing Amneris and Eboli. And that was the finish of what was a quite beautiful voice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am so in debt to these contests for alerting me to singers I wasn't acquainted with. Baltsa was definitely one of them. Obratzsova is another. She has blown me away!!! So so so much squillo, great size and beauty. Her Mon Coeur... is really extraordinary! 



. She is one of the very very few who carries all of the rich, lush sexiness of a considerable chest voice down to the low lying phrases of this aria. Almost everyone else avoids the chest on that aria, one of the most beautiful and sexy in the whole mezzo repertoire. My opera loving buddy that I listen to opera in the car with in the car every week was completely blown away like me with Obratzsova.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

A very interesting conundrum.
On the one hand Obraztsova sings with complete abandon and uses an enviable chest tone. She's got that "kick-***" factor that gave me goosebumps. However, her voice is more mature sounding than perhaps what Santuzza's voice should be.
So I compare that to the more beautiful sounding voice of Baltsa and try to hear any chest tones -- there were none --- and as much as she seemed to put drama into it and delivered a knock-out high that was worthy of note, from a visual perspective she still seemed like a singer singing an aria with no true passion to buff it up.
So which gets my vote because they were both different interpretations and it is hard, but I must go with my goosebumps. Obratzsova wins the day, but with a gracious nod to Baltsa and her beautiful high note.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I see that I was the first to vote and did, in fact vote for Obratzsova.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> A very interesting conundrum.
> On the one hand Obraztsova sings with complete abandon and uses an enviable chest tone. She's got that "kick-***" factor that gave me goosebumps. However, her voice is more mature sounding than perhaps what Santuzza's voice should be.
> So I compare that to the more beautiful sounding voice of Baltsa and try to hear any chest tones -- there were none --- and as much as she seemed to put drama into it and delivered a knock-out high that was worthy of note, from a visual perspective she still seemed like a singer singing an aria with no true passion to buff it up.
> So which gets my vote because they were both different interpretations and it is hard, but I must go with my goosebumps. Obratzsova wins the day, but with a gracious nod to Baltsa and her beautiful high note.


I can assure anyone who hasn't heard her live that Baltsa had an appreciative chest voice and the voice itself was pretty large. Probably not as large as Obraztsova's, but pretty large nevertheless. If she doesn't use full chest voice in this aria, you can be sure it was a conscious decision.

Though I've heard better versions of this aria, some from Baltsa herself, I voted for her because she remembers who and what Santuzza is, whilst Obraztsova is more intent on showing off her big, voluminous voice. Maybe I'm biased, because I've never liked her in any of the recordings she made, and her recording career was in fact quite short-lived. I don't know how long her stage career was, but I remember she seemed to disappear almost as quickly as she arrived on the operatic scene.

Here's Baltsa's studio take on the aria, recorded for a recital in 1981. She doesn't overdo the chest here either.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> ! So so so much squillo, great size and beauty. Her Mon Coeur... is really extraordinary!
> 
> 
> 
> . She is one of the very very few who carries all of the rich, lush sexiness of a considerable chest voice down to the low lying phrases of this aria. Almost everyone else avoids the chest on that aria, one of the most beautiful and sexy in the whole mezzo repertoire. My opera loving buddy that I listen to opera in the car with in the car every week was completely blown away like me with Obratzsova.


I don't like it at all. I'd say those that avoid full chest voice in the aria do it on purpose. I hear absolutey nothing sensual or sexual in Obratztsova's delivery. If I were Samson, I'd be out of there like a shot. Yes, the voice is glorious, but she pays absolutey no attention to context. She recorded Dalila for Barenboim, with Domingo having his first shot at Samson. It's one of my least favourite recordings of the piece. Her Charlotte is even worse.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^ I tend to agree. Sexiness is a highly individual thing. If you're looking for a dominatrix, Obraztsova may be your cup of white lightning. There's a thrill to be had from a big, vibrant voice used without inhibition, but for many people an artful inhibition - call it subtlety or romance - is an important component of sexual appeal. Samson should have known something bad was afoot when this Dalila came at his head with a chainsaw. To be fair, she does pull back a little at the start of the big tune, and her legato is exemplary. I think aggressiveness is just a natural characteristic of her voice, which makes it all the more necessary for her to work at creating a sense of intimacy and tenderness. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but Obraztsova scares me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I tend to agree. Sexiness is a highly individual thing. If you're looking for a dominatrix, Obraztsova may be your cup of white lightning. There's a thrill to be had from a big, vibrant voice used without inhibition, but for many people an artful inhibition - call it subtlety or romance - is an important component of sexual appeal. Samson should have known something bad was afoot when this Dalila came at his head with a chainsaw. To be fair, she does pull back a little at the start of the big tune, and her legato is exemplary. I think aggressiveness is just a natural characteristic of her voice, which makes it all the more necessary for her to work at creating a sense of intimacy and tenderness. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but Obraztsova scares me.


I can understand your point of view. I like very powerful, dominating women except as friends. So does my friend, so maybe that is why we like her. When I was young there was a strong tom boy across the street and she loved to boss me around. I am sure most of you had more conventional childhoods. In movies and tv I like Alexis Colby type of characters or that lady from the Alien movies.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I can understand your point of view. I like very powerful, dominating women except as friends. So does my friend, so maybe that is why we like her. When I was young there was a strong tom boy across the street and she loved to boss me around. I am sure most of you had more conventional childhoods. In movies and tv I like Alexis Colby type of characters or that lady from the Alien movies.


I wouldn't call my childhood conventional. Then again, it was in some ways too conventional and I had to become an alien to compensate. But I think my forum mates should be spared any more specific personal revelations, with apologies to the morbidly curious.


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## PatriciaAzSydney (Dec 31, 2020)

*Mezzo Obrastova vs Baltsa*



Dimace said:


> The Greek's don't have the orchestral tradition the Russians have, but someone must tell them (the Russians) that the Italian scholl has it own rules and the MUST learn them. It isn't the first time they murder an Italian composer. (and the Germans have our issues with the Italian scholl. Maybe we consider it easier, lighter, with more freedom etc. like many pianists consider the music of Liszt. SUPER, MEGA mistake!)


Are halb Juden (e.g. Ashkenazy) only half as good?


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## PatriciaAzSydney (Dec 31, 2020)

I agree with the Baltsa preferers and I know she's more of a Santuzza but the voice, the voice, of Obrastsova! A guilty pleasure for me. The size of it! The beautiful transitions from f to p! What comes out when she really lets loose is a tsunami. I love it.


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