# Sibelius complete symphonies



## science

I don't have a complete set of Sibelius symphonies, and I wonder which one you recommend?


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## ahammel

I'm very happy with my Vänskä set. Good performances, and it also comes with some tone poems (including Tapiola, my favourite Sibelius piece) the Karelia suite, the violin concerto, and both versions of the fifth. 

Dynamic range is a little broad, though. Headphones or understanding neighbours are helpful.


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## Itullian

Digital recordings.


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## bigshot

BIS Vanska or Supraphon Talich (not complete but fantastic). It took me a long time to find Sibelius that connected with me. So far, these are the only two.


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## samurai

Hi, Science. I have recently acquired the Berglund/Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra set. As well, I have the Maazel/Vienna Philharmonic readings. I think both are very well-done.


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## AClockworkOrange

In addition to his Helsinki cycle, I find Berglund's cycle with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe very rewarding. I haven't heard the Bournemouth but I have no doubt that they would be very satisfying too.

Neeme Jarvi's Gothenburg cycle is also very worthwhile.


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## realdealblues

I'll second (or third) the Berglund/Helsinki cycle.

My other favorite is the Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic cycle.

I have about 10 other complete sets, but those two are still my favorites.


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## Art Rock

I have the Berglund Helsinki and can join the others in recommending them. My other (earlier) "cycle" consists of a mix of Jarvi, Askenazy and Karajan.


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## DrKilroy

If you want my recommendations, Maazel/VPO (for 1 - 4) and Berglund/COE (for 5 - 7).

Best regards, Dr


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## Aramis

I'm entirely satisfied with my Rattle box from EMI. I haven't heard better Sibelius 2nd than the one from this recording.


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## DaDirkNL

I have the Berglund/Helsinki cycle and the Karajan/Berlin cycle, and I'm very happy with both.


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## Vaneyes

Helsinki/Berglund, Philharmonia/Ashkenazy. :tiphat:


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## TxllxT

My first encounter with music from Sibelius were the Berglund / Bournemouth Orchestra recordings of all symphonic poems. However I do like Berglund conducting Sibelius here, especially in relation to getting the brooding Nordic atmosphere whelmingly (not over- nor under-) right, I find him too soft in dealing with Sibelius' symphonies. At present I hugely prefer von Karajan with the Berliner Philharmoniker (4,5,6,7 on DGG) over the whole range of spectacular digital recordings that somehow fail to grab my soul into the maelstrom, where there is no way of getting out. With Berglund and others the beauty is always stronger than the beast. I want the beast to wolf me all-consumingly. Perhaps Gergiev (who I didn't meet yet in doing Sibelius) can better von Karajan...


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## ptr

I have four conductors that I return to regularly in Sibelius;

Two recent:
Herbert Blomstedt (SFSO/DECCA)
Neeme Järvi (GSO/Bis)

An two antique:
Anthony Collins (LSO/Beulah)
Tor Mann (Var Swedish Orchestras), He also wrote a very interesting and detailed analysis of the Scores to all Sibelius Symphonies, that (for the most of You) are only (AFAIK) available in Swedish, a language for a minority of Culturally behaved Northerners!

Can't stand Vänskä's Sibelius, me thinks he conducts the orchestra like it is a Clarinet, no foundation at all, just a lot of wind! 

/ptr


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## Pip

If you can still find them Alexander Gibson's set with the Scottish National Orchestra is wonderful.
The recent LSO Live with Colin Davis is also a great buy - great performances.
My individual choices are
1 - Gibson
2 - Barbirolli RPO
3 - Davis LSO live
4-5-6-7 - Karajan BPO DGG


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## Blake

Segerstam or Vanska. Berglund is a good set, as well.


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## Rangstrom

Davis/BSO is my favorite, although nothing I've heard matches the Barbirolli RPO 2nd. The parts of the Maazel/VPO that I owned were also very good, unfortunately they were on RTR so I haven't listened to them in ages. I'm amazed that you can get the whole set for around $12.


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## ShropshireMoose

I'd say it's a question of horses for courses, which is my inevitable feeling about sets of works as diverse as the Sibelius symphonies. 
1. BBCSO/Sargent or Halle/Barbirolli
2. BBCSO/Beecham (a must this- and it's coupled with an equally stunning Dvorak 8) Halle or RPO/Barbirolli
3. LSO/Collins 
4. LPO/Beecham or VPO/Maazel
5. NYPO/Bernstein (1960s) or BBCSO/Sargent (another really outstanding performance from an underrated conductor)
6. RPO/Beecham or LSO/Collins
7. RPO/Beecham

A very personal list, but I do especially urge you to try the Beecham 2nd (it's a live performance and absolutely terrific) and the Sargent 5th.


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## julianoq

My favorite cycle is Neeme Jarvi with the GSO on BIS, but I also recommend Berglund, Segerstam, Vanska, Oramo and Sanderling. The ones that I didn't like are Ashkenazy and Karajan.


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## nightscape

Vänskä is a great set, but I'm not a fan of his reading of the 5th. Karajan is a must for the 5th.


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## Marschallin Blair

I could never abide by a 'set,' myself-- it isn't generous.

I see so much difference in the way everyone does a work- or even the way the same conductor approaches the same composer within the same symphonic cycle- that it just doesn't work for me. Ha. Ha. Ha. 

Karajan's multiple EMI and DG offerings- both Philharmonia and Berlin, Ashkenazy's Philharmonia/BSO creations, Stokowski's, Bergland's Bournemouth, Oramo's, Sergerstam's Ondines. . . the list just goes on and on.

I just get heady-- in a good way!  -- appraising and re-appreciating the canon; or at least what I consider to be such-- and delight in reformulating my aesthetic premises accordingly, infinitely and endlessly.

It just never ends.

-- Or I never learn. . . or I'm just not doctrinaire enough musically. I can't decide, but it doesn't matter. It's wonderful fun.


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## DrKilroy

May I ask - how do you rate Maazel/VPO cycle? I have heard some very unfavourable reviews about it, but it is one of my favourites, especially for the earlier symphonies. What's wrong with it? 

Best regards, Dr


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## Marschallin Blair

DrKilroy said:


> May I ask - how do you rate Maazel/VPO cycle? I have heard some very unfavourable reviews about it, but it is one of my favourites, especially for the earlier symphonies. What's wrong with it?
> 
> Best regards, Dr


Well Doctor, nothings wrong with you liking what you like; only liking what others like only because others like it, and not yourself 

As for moi though, the Maazel, upon scanted recollection- I think the last time I heard the set was in the mid-nineties-- just seems a bit too laid back and attenuated at the climaxes for my tastes. I like my Sibelius sumptuously beautiful, mysterious, with beautifully blended winds and strings--- and noble, cascading climaxes; 'Karajanesque' for the most part (though his climaxes can be more epic).

Examples?: like how Ashkenazy does the climax in the first movement of the Sibelius 5 with the Philharmonia; or how Oramo and the BSO do Pohjola's daughter. . . Oh, yeah!-- especially how Alexander Gibson and the SNO do Luonnotar; Stokowski's fifties One and Two as well-- fan-TAS-tic!

But these are the climaxes I'm talking about; the virile side of Sibelius.

For the landscape painting and beautifully blended strings and winds-- the whole 'naturalistic' effect?-- It's Karajan all the way for me; especially the sixties DG recordings of 5,6,7, The Swan of Tuonela, and Tapiola-- which is so sumptuously gorgeous and exotic sounding that words just fail me. . . the Segerstam Sibelius Seventh-- on Ondine-- is absolutely sublime, he does the last couple of minutes of that like nothing I've heard.

But back to Maazel: I can't recall with specificity what I didn't like in each of the symphonies because it's been so long ago that I've heard them; but I intuitively know that, given my tastes, he wouldn't even remotely approach the beauty and majesty of so many other recordings of the symphonies and tone poems that I've heard other conductors do. . .

What do YOU like about the Maazel readings?


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## bigshot

I like Karajan's Sibelius for what it is, but it seems a bit "upholstered", if you know what I mean. There is a kind of raw austerity in Sibelius that Karajan tends to gloss over with Germanic polish. But that's my objection to a lot of conductors. Not easy to find Sibelius done as Sibelius.


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## Marschallin Blair

. . . so as not to unintendedly bash of Maazel: Have you heard his Respighi Roman Festivals on Decca?-- EP-IC. His Prokofiev Romeo & Juliette ballet with Cleveland also on Decca-- wonderful. . . I really like those performances a lot.


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## Skilmarilion

samurai said:


> I have recently acquired the Berglund/Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra set.


I have this set too and would highly recommend it.


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## Marschallin Blair

Without qualification or reservation, Berglund's Bournemouth Sibelius always brings something epic to my table; it's not my favorite, but I like it. Have you heard his Bournemouth/Shostakovich 11?-- wow.


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## julianoq

bigshot said:


> I like Karajan's Sibelius for what it is, but it seems a bit "upholstered", if you know what I mean. There is a kind of raw austerity in Sibelius that Karajan tends to gloss over with Germanic polish. But that's my objection to a lot of conductors. Not easy to find Sibelius done as Sibelius.


I agree. I don't like the "hot romantic" Sibelius interpretation, I prefer to get my Sibelius ice cold. That's why Neeme Jarvi and Vanska on BIS are among my favorites and I am not a fan of Karajan's performances.

About the Maazel cycle, I think it is not a memorable set, but the performance of the 4th is quite amazing!


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## chalkpie

julianoq said:


> That's why Neeme Jarvi and Vanska on BIS


Is the DG Jarvi set the same as the BIS recordings (just updated packaging?). Thanks.


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## ptr

chalkpie said:


> Is the DG Jarvi set the same as the BIS recordings (just updated packaging?). Thanks.


NO, the Bis recordings are mid to late 80's stereo CD's, the DG set is mid 2000's and multi channel SACD's.. Same balance engineer (Michael Bergek)..

/ptr


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## Guest

Not quite complete:



















Complete:


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## Guest

Can someone describe the differences between Berglund/Helsinki and Berglund/BSO?

(Listening to the Fifth, Helsinski, I can't hear that thing the cellos are supposed to do...what's it called?)


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## aeschylus

I have the Philips Colin Davis/Boston SO set which is quite cheap, has really good sound, and is very enjoyable.

I have a sneaking admiration for Leif Segerstam. There's a live seventh by him on you tube which is well worth a listen.


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## starthrower

MacLeod said:


> Can someone describe the differences between Berglund/Helsinki and Berglund/BSO?
> 
> (Listening to the Fifth, Helsinski, I can't hear that thing the cellos are supposed to do...what's it called?)


Tempos are faster on the Helsinki set. For those considering Vanska, the 15 CD Essential set is the way to go. You can buy it for only 10-15 dollars more than the Symphony set.

Here's a link for the best price. A lot better than paying 40 dollars just for the 4 CD symphony set. And the incidental music is worth it. Lots of beautiful music.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7951535--the-essential-sibelius


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## Rmathuln

My top pick that is generally available is Segerstam on Ondine.
Someday I would like to acquire the Segerstam Chandos set, also once available from Brilliant Classics.
I include very high on my list Akeo Watanabe/Denon from the early 1960s (once available on Epic LPs in the USA). But the only CDs from official sources have been issued only in Japan, are OOP, are hard to find, and usually very expensive. I got a set before it went OOP the last time it was issued by Tower Records Japan.


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## david johnson

my sets - 
Watanabe
Sanderling
Berglund


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## Merl

I've been listening to the Davis / LSO set in the car recently and I really like it. Classy, broad readings that are perfectly judged and beautifully recorded. An impressive set, indeed. Recommended unreservedly.


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## jim prideaux

a number of cycles already mentioned really do the job......

however can I just politely alert people to the existence of a fine but apparently forgotten cycle by Sakari Oramo and the CBSO on Erato.


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## Becca

Forget the cycles...

Kullervo - P. Jarvi - Royal Stockholm Philharmonic
1st - Gibson - Scottish National
2nd - Barbirolli - Royal Philharmonic
3rd - Gibson - Scottish National
4th - Barbirolli - Halle
5th - Karajan - Philharmonia
6th - Gibson - Scottish National
7th - Beecham - Royal Philharmonic


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## starthrower

Becca said:


> Forget the cycles...


With complete sets selling for 10-12 dollars, I'm in love with cycles!


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## Becca

starthrower said:


> With complete sets selling for 10-12 dollars, I'm in love with cycles!


You get what you pay for


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## starthrower

I'm not a musician, and I don't read scores. If I pick up a set by a good Sibelius conductor like Berglund, Barbirolli, Vanska, it'll be good enough for me. I know a lot of folks here collect 20-30 versions of works, but I'm not one of them.


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## Heck148

for complete Sibelius symphonies: 
Bernstein/NYPO/ Sony....
unmatched, a great set throughout...


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## Becca

starthrower said:


> I know a lot of folks here collect 20-30 versions of works, but I'm not one of them.


Likewise, I listen to a few versions of works that I particularly like and keep 2 or 3 of the most interesting of each without any attempt to have a 'cycle'.


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## Josquin13

MacLeod said:


> Can someone describe the differences between Berglund/Helsinki and Berglund/BSO?
> 
> (Listening to the Fifth, Helsinski, I can't hear that thing the cellos are supposed to do...what's it called?)


In the following excerpt from an article in the Finnish Music Quarterly, written by Vesa Sirén, Paavo Berglund offers some thoughts on his three studio Sibelius cycles, with the Bournemouth S.O. (EMI), Helsinki Philharmonic(EMI digital), and Chamber Orchestra of Europe(Finlandia digital):

"Berglund began recording Sibelius in Bournemouth in the early 1970's. "Sibelius himself conducted in Bournemouth, so the tradition was there. When I recorded the symphonies again in the 1980's with the Helsinki Philharmonic, the Sixth Symphony was pure gobbledygook to the orchestra and the work was hard. The orchestra was enthusiastic, nevertheless. The Second and Fifth Symphonies went well," he recalls.

Berglund recorded his third Sibelius cycle with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. He recorded the Fourth, Sixth, and Seventh Symphonies with a small ensemble of around 50 players, resulting in some real Diet Sibelius where every note came through and many secondary lines seemed to stand on their own as full equals of the actual melody lines. To the Third Symphony, Berglund added only one cellist. The First, Second, and Fifth Symphonies were recorded with a full-strength orchestra.

"The size of the orchestra is not a problem. For instance, the Fourth Symphony is so totally absolute music that the mass of the sound affects the result very little. It is almost like Bach's Art of the Fugue, which was not composed for any particular instrument."

::

While writing this article, I made a startling discovery that supports Berglund's position. From the depths of the National Archive there appeared a large envelope containing slips of paper on which Sibelius' son-in-law, conductor Jussi Jalas, had recorded the master's utterings complete with dates. Some of these utterings had, for some reason, neglected to find their way into Jalas' memoirs or his book on Sibelius' symphonies.

"The IV Symphony does not require a large orchestra," noted Sibelius to Jalas on October 1, 1939. "The III Symphony is well suited for a very small orchestra," the composer continued on June 18, 1940. "I performed it in Moscow with an orchestra that had 12 violas, etc., and the woodwinds were almost wiped out. When I had it published, I was going to add a note that the orchestra should not exceed 50 players."

Most conductors, it appears, conduct the Third Symphony with an oversize orchestra! The Chamber Orchestra of Europe is thus, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, a more authentic Sibelian orchestra than one would have thought. However, the Sibelianism did not originally extend to the Chamber Orchestra of Europe's phrasing.

"Initially, the orchestra's way of playing did not work with Sibelius. You can't play Sibelius like Mozart, which is bread and butter for this ensemble. You need a totally different type of phrasing. But these are good, professional people. They are good to work with," extols Berglund.

He says he considers the sound quality of the Fourth and Sixth Symphonies to be a bit on the thin side. The other records sound undeniably better.

"A recording reflects the interpretation of the moment. I already think differently of certain things as compared to the recordings [of the Fourth and Fifth Symphonies]. But I certainly claim them as my own, nevertheless, and the older ones as well.""

What I find interesting about these comments, apart from Sibelius' remarks about the size of the orchestra, is that Berglund found a Sibelius tradition in Bournemouth in the early 1970s that was still intact from an earlier time when Sibelius conducted the orchestra. I would have expected to him to say that about the Helsinki Philharmonic, not the Bournemouth S.O., so I was surprised. Although they do play Sibelius very well.

I'd say that the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th & 7th are among his best performances in the Bournemouth cycle, while the 2nd, 4th & 5th are exceptional in the Helsinki cycle. (I've never been as keen on his COE cycle, overall, but do value having heard the 3rd and 4th symphonies performed by a reduced chamber orchestra, in light of Sibelius' comments to his son-in-law.) EMI provided excellent sound for both cycles, but the 1980s Helsinki cycle is digitally recorded, while the Bournemouth cycle is analogue, if that matters to you.

If forced to choose, I'd pick Berglund's Bournemouth set over the Helsinki cycle, but by a narrow margin. (They're both terrific bargains at the moment, at under $12 each 'new', on Amazon.)






With that said, Berglund was known to be at his best live in Sibelius. His studio recordings can be a bit more restrained and tightly controlled--though not always. To my ears, Berglund's Sibelius sounds more contained within the studio, whereas in live concert performances he can become very inspired & quite caught up in the moment: as with his live Barbican recordings with the London Philharmonic of the 5th, 6th & 7th Symphonies. These performances go with me to my desert island; along with his two studio recordings of the 2nd Symphony by the Bournemouth & Helsinki orchestras. The final three symphonies were Berglund specialties, as he knew the scores of the 5th, 6th, & 7th more intimately than most other conductors (& it shows), having been responsible for the revised 1980s Hansen edition that was based on Sibelius's own hand corrected conducting scores (of the original Hansen edition), which Berglund discovered in the possession of the Helsinki Philharmonic.

But, I also think that the Helsinki Philharmonic plays better for Leif Segerstam on their later Sibelius cycle released on Ondine, although I'm not a huge fan of Segerstam's rather spacious, broad conducting in this cycle (& generally prefer his earlier Chandos cycle).

Here's the full Finnish Quarterly article: https://fmq.fi/articles/sibelius-the-view-from-the-podium

For anyone that's interested, here's a list of my favorite desert island Sibelius recordings (from the older mono historical recordings to recent years):

--Robert Kajanus--all his historical recordings.
--Thomas Jensen--all his historical recordings.
--Hans Rosbaud--his tone poems on DG.
--Sir John Barbirolli--his Halle Orchestra Symphony cycle on EMI, including the tone poems, and his Royal Philharmonic 2nd.
--Eugene Ormandy--his Lemminkäinen Suite, Pohjola's Daughter, Symphony No. 2, and Violin Concerto (with violinist David Oistrakh), all with the Philadelphia Orchestra.
--Sixten Erhling--his Violin Concerto (with violinist David Oistrakh): I've never heard the opening passages played more mysteriously, than by Oistrakh here: 



Gennady Rozhdestvensky--the Violin Concerto (again, with David Oistrakh).
--Paavo Berglund--Bournemouth S.O. symphony cycle, Helsinki Philharmonic Symphony cycle (including the tone poems), all of his live London Philharmonic Barbican recordings (especially 5 & 7), the Violin Concerto (with Arve Tellefsen, who I slightly prefer to Ida Haendel in the earlier Bournemouth series), both Kullervo recordings on EMI, and his wonderful EMI tone poems with the Philharmonia Orchestra, which includes the finest performance of The Swan of Tuonela I've ever heard--here Berglund's insistence on less vibrato from his strings and beautifully translucent horns work especially well: 



.
--Sir Alexander Gibson--his swan song recordings of Symphonies 1 & 2 with the Uppsala Chamber Orchestra: 



, and a 2 CD set of tone poems with the Scottish National Orchestra, on Chandos.
--Leif Segerstam--his symphony cycle with the Danish National Radio Orchestra on Chandos (especially their brilliant 7th: 



), both Tempest Suites (on Chandos & Ondine), Kullervo on Ondine, the tone poems on Ondine (with the Helsinki Philharmonic), and the Violin Concerto with a young Pekka Kuusisto (Ondine: 



).
--Jukka-Pekka Saraste--his 1st studio cycle on RCA, and the complete incidental music to The Tempest (on Ondine). (Saraste's live Finnish RSO cycle in Russia is good too--on Finlandia, along with his more recent live London Philharmonic 5th.)
--Osma Vanska--his two versions of Sibelius' Violin Concerto (with Leonidas Kavakos), the world premiere recording of The Wood Nymph (on BIS), the original 1915 version of the 5th Symphony (on BIS):



, and the world premiere recording of the complete score to The Tempest: 



 .
--Okko Kamu--the Violin Concerto (with violinist Miriam Fried--a former student of Heifetz, and Jonathan Biss' mom): 



, Symphonies 1, 2, & 3 on DG: 



, and his remarkable Symphony No. 4 from the recent Lahti S.O. cycle on BIS hybrid SACD (though I wasn't completely won over by the whole cycle, which I found a mixed success). I'd also like to see Kamu's recording of the Sibelius VC with violinist Elina Vähälä get released: 




Among more recent cycles, I've most liked Sakari Oramo's Birmingham S.O. cycle on Erato. Conductor Hannu Lintu has been making some interesting Sibelius recordings too.

(My next Sibelius purchase will be the newly released box set of Sibelius' complete incidental music, with the Turku Philharmonic, conducted by Leif Segerstam, on Naxos. I expect the music itself to be of a variable quality, but being a Sibelius nut, I want to hear it anyways:https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Inc...543029567&sr=1-11&keywords=segerstam+sibelius.)


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## starthrower

Josquin13 said:


> (My next Sibelius purchase will be the newly released box set of Sibelius' complete incidental music, with the Turku Philharmonic, conducted by Leif Segerstam, on Naxos. I expect the music itself to be of a variable quality, but being a veritable Sibelius nut, want to hear anyways.)


I ordered it from Arkiv Music a few days ago. They had the lowest price at 24.99
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2273212


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## DarkAngel

> --Sir John Barbirolli--his Halle Orchestra Symphony cycle on EMI, including the tone poems, *and his Royal Philharmonic 2nd*.


J13 glad you mentioned the RPO 2nd on Chesky label, famous "fire & ice" performance.....


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## Brahmsianhorn

Been sampling, and my picks so far:

1 - Collins
2 - Barbirolli
3 - Kajanus
4 - Beecham
5 - Bernstein
6 - Karajan
7 - Koussevitzky


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## Oldhoosierdude

I like 1-5 from here. 








6 & 7 here.


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## Merl

Got lots but my current fave is Davis LSO live

Otherwise Berglund Helsinki, Orama and Karajan are the ones ive played most in the last year.


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## RobertKC

If you want excellent audio (DTS-HD MA 5.1 surround-sound) and video (1080i), then consider this Blu-ray box set:

Jean Sibelius: 7 Symphonies, The Finnish Radio Symphony, Hannu Lintu










I'm working my way through this box set for the second time, listening via surround-sound (tube amps, Klipsch RF-7II speakers), and watching via plasma HDTV. IMO this is a very enjoyable way to experience classical recordings.


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## Ras

*Paavo Jarvi has just released a complete recording of Sibelius' symphonies on RCA:*


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## jim prideaux

first time featuring a French Orchestra? ^^^^^


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## Ras

jim prideaux said:


> first time featuring a French Orchestra? ^^^^^


I hadn't actually noticed this, but Paavo Jarvi recorded a lot of mainly French repertoire with the Orchestra Paris. 
You can see a list on amazon:

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=popular&field-keywords=jarvi+paavo+paris

Oh, wait a second Wikipedia says:


> In 2010, he became Music Director of the Orchestre de Paris,[3] concluding his tenure in 2016, the same year in which he was named Artist of the Year by both Gramophone and Diapason magazines.


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## jim prideaux

jim prideaux said:


> first time featuring a French Orchestra? ^^^^^


ie. first Sibelius cycle recorded by a French orchestra...I had been under the impression that he had never really become established with French audiences?


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## Konsgaard

For a complete set: Ashkenazy/Philharmonia/DG, Blomstedt/San Francisco/Decca, Jarvi/Gothenburg/DG or Storgards/BBC/Chandos. Some critivs, ok most critics, don't like them but then again a lot of people have the notion that Sibelius should sound like chamber music.

I'd avoid the Vanska (both sets) unless you like really lean sound. And Berglund for rushing through is some symphonies (in all his three cycles).

For analogue sound Barbirolli or Karajan (though not a complete cycle).


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## Konsgaard

I'd love to recommend the Davis LSO live cycle which has really splendid performances, but I find the recorded sound poor.


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## vincula

This Sibelius box's really growing on me. Found it very cheap at a local charity shop and I've been listening intensely to it during the last month. I've got the one with the Bournemouth Orchestra too, which I also enjoy, but this one's refreshing and the orchestra plays beautifully.









Regards,

Vincula


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## CnC Bartok

vincula said:


> This Sibelius box's really growing on me. Found it very cheap at a local charity shop and I've been listening intensely to it during the last month. I've got the one with the Bournemouth Orchestra too, which I also enjoy, but this one's refreshing and the orchestra plays beautifully.
> 
> View attachment 143562
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


It's growing/has grown on me too. However, I have also found it has some eccentricities in it, weird tempo changes, some funny dynamics, so I wouldn't have it as a first choice. But the reason I do like it is because either of Berglund's EMI cycles - Bournemouth or Helsinki - are about as good as it gets, and this one (as well as some LSO Live recordings) give a different view of the same fantastic conductor in his element! Well worth hearing, though.

Anthony Collins probably remains my favourite overall, despite the dated sound. After him, I have found that nobody does the opening of No.1 anything like justice, and absolutely everyone else is far too slow/sedate in No.3!!


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## vincula

CnC Bartok said:


> It's growing/has grown on me too. However, I have also found it has some eccentricities in it, weird tempo changes, some funny dynamics, so I wouldn't have it as a first choice. But the reason I do like it is because either of Berglund's EMI cycles - Bournemouth or Helsinki - are about as good as it gets, and this one (as well as some LSO Live recordings) give a different view of the same fantastic conductor in his element! Well worth hearing, though.


I do agree with you. That's why I bought it. It has taken me some time to adjust my ear to some of the readings and I still prefer the Bournemouth one overall though. Szell on the no.2 and other individual renditions, etc. But as a refreshing cycle in good sound, it's a worthy addition to the catalogue.

Regards,

Vincula


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## Eclectic Al

For complete sets, I have:
Ashkenazy/Philharmonia, Barbirolli/Halle, Berglund/Helsinki, Saraste/Finnish RSO
I also have plenty of Karajan, plus occasional Davis/Boston, Rattle/CBSO/Philharmonia.

I got the Saraste set recently on Supraphon - one of their 199 Koruna specials, so why not? I have only so far listened to number 7 plus some tone poems. It seems really good, so I'm surprised to have noticed no mentions on this thread.

Otherwise, Sibelius is a composer where I like most performances. They are pieces where I find that conductors struggle to ruin them. I seem to recall that years ago I had an LP (or even cassette - remember those) of Maazel doing number 4 and he managed to do a pretty bad job - but I can't remember why. 

I listen more to 3, 4, 6 and 7 than the others, and I probably visit Karajan most often among conductors as his 4, 6 and 7 are all great (so it's a shame he didn't do number 3) with the BPO on DG in the 60s. I think Ashkenazy did pretty well in 1 and 2. Rattle did a pretty good number 3 with the CBSO and a good 5 with the Philharmonia.

Litening to number 3 with Saraste at the moment, and it seems pretty good - but then it always does.


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## Kiki

^

Glad you mentioned Saraste. His Sibelius has been mentioned often enough elsewhere in TC although like you said not in this thread. His Finlandia cycle with the Finish RSO is one of my favourites. It's spontaneous and idiomatic. His earlier RCA cycle sounds to me creamier, grander and safer. 

For me the overall speaking most satisfying cycle is Ashkenazy's first cycle with the Philharmonia on Decca. High tension throughout, and very well recorded. Only have got his 6 & 7 from his second cycle with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra on Exton. Great stuff also. 

Apart from these, I've been impressed by Berglund (x3), Barbirolli and recently Rozhdestvensky. Have to confess I'm not a fan of Colin Davis and Karajan in Sibelius. While Simon Rattle is an acquired taste. His Berlin cycle has to be the most beautiful and gloriously played out there.


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## CnC Bartok

Another purchaser of the Supraphonline Saraste set here! Haven't had the chance to listen yet, but will do so soon.....


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## Knorf

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so I'll just toss in that my favorite among more recent cycles is Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra on BIS. That's an incredibly special set of performances and audiophile-quality recordings. 

One I've been curious about but have seen very little reaction to is Rattle/Berlin. Is that because it's own their own label? (I've noticed that reviewers as well as recording collectors have had weirdly suspicious reactions to orchestra releases on their own labels.) Or is the Sibelius set just bland and lacking in distinction, like almost all Rattle?


----------



## HenryPenfold

Knorf said:


> I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so I'll just toss in that my favorite among more recent cycles is Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra on BIS. That's an incredibly special set of performances and audiophile-quality recordings.
> 
> One I've been curious about but have seen very little reaction to is Rattle/Berlin. Is that because it's own their own label? (I've noticed that reviewers as well as recording collectors have had weirdly suspicious reactions to orchestra releases on their own labels.) Or is the Sibelius set just bland and lacking in distinction, like almost all Rattle?


I bought the Rattle BPO because I found it as a crazy under £10 bargain 24/96 Hi-Res download. I've only heard it through twice, but I find it unremarkable. Bland, unlike his Mahler 2, 9 & 10, Szymanowski, 2VS, Maw, Debussy, Ravel and Nielsen concerts (which are all superb).


----------



## Merl

HenryPenfold said:


> I bought the Rattle BPO because I found it as a crazy under £10 bargain 24/96 Hi-Res download. I've only heard it through twice, but I find it unremarkable. Bland, unlike his Mahler 2, 9 & 10, Szymanowski, 2VS, Maw, Debussy, Ravel and Nielsen concerts (which are all superb).


Agreed about Rattle's BPO Sibelius... Bland. Not awful, just unremarkable. Kamu gets a thumbs up from me too. I find it increasingly difficult to pick a fave cycle though.


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## Eclectic Al

Knorf said:


> I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so I'll just toss in that my favorite among more recent cycles is Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra on BIS. That's an incredibly special set of performances and audiophile-quality recordings.
> 
> One I've been curious about but have seen very little reaction to is Rattle/Berlin. Is that because it's own their own label? (I've noticed that reviewers as well as recording collectors have had weirdly suspicious reactions to orchestra releases on their own labels.) Or is the Sibelius set just bland and lacking in distinction, like almost all Rattle?


Love the side-swipe.

I'm not particularly pro or anti Rattle, but that was a beautiful destruction in passing.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Knorf said:


> I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so I'll just toss in that my favorite among more recent cycles is Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra on BIS. That's an incredibly special set of performances and audiophile-quality recordings.
> 
> One I've been curious about but have seen very little reaction to is Rattle/Berlin. Is that because it's own their own label? (I've noticed that reviewers as well as recording collectors have had weirdly suspicious reactions to orchestra releases on their own labels.) Or is the Sibelius set just bland and lacking in distinction, like almost all Rattle?


I'm ignoring the sideswipe, but weighing in with a similarly positive evaluation of the BIS Kamu set. :angel:


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## Knorf

Merl said:


> Agreed about Rattle's BPO Sibelius... Bland. Not awful, just unremarkable. Kamu gets a thumbs up from me too. I find it increasingly difficult to pick a fave cycle though.


I certainly agree. Kamu for me is one favorite, most clearly my favorite among recent cycles, but there are many good ones, and some I have not heard, such as Rattle, but it sounds like I need not bother with that one.



Eclectic Al said:


> Love the side-swipe.
> 
> I'm not particularly pro or anti Rattle, but that was a beautiful destruction in passing.


Apologies: that was probably unnecessary. But Rattle is consistently a major disappointment to me, especially for someone so long at the helm of the Berliner Philharmoniker!


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## Merl

I'm not pro or anti Rattle but neither of his Sibelius cycles are wholly impressive. He's done good stuff elsewhere, though. It's not all bad news.


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## Simplicissimus

Knorf said:


> I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so I'll just toss in that my favorite among more recent cycles is Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra on BIS. That's an incredibly special set of performances and audiophile-quality recordings.
> 
> One I've been curious about but have seen very little reaction to is Rattle/Berlin. Is that because it's own their own label? (I've noticed that reviewers as well as recording collectors have had weirdly suspicious reactions to orchestra releases on their own labels.) Or is the Sibelius set just bland and lacking in distinction, like almost all Rattle?


I just found the Okko Kamu/Lahti SO Sib cycle on my streaming service a couple of weeks ago and wow, it's spectacular. I'm getting it in 24-bit/96 kHz FLAC sound, too. Previously I'd heard some of Okko Kamu's Sib with the Berliner Philharmoniker and Helsinki Radio SO, but this with the Lahti sounds better to me. For years I've sworn by the Ormandy/Philadelphia cycle (my only cycle on CD) but this new one is definitely my new #1. ArkivMusic has the set on SACD for $40... an early birthday present perhaps.


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## Kiki

Sounds like there isn't much love for Rattle's Berlin set. I wouldn't rate it as high as my favourites, but have to admit I've been marvelled by how beautiful it sounds.

Hadn't heard any of Kamu's Sibelius so I went to Spotify. Went through 3 and 6 once. 3 is solid. 6 is nice, but the 2nd movement is a bit too moderato or me. It sounds squarish. (Barbirolli was equally slow but it doesn't sound squarish.) Have to admit my level of interest has dropped... which of Kamu's seven would you recommend sampling outside of 3 & 6?


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## JAS

I think Rattle's recording of the 5th symphony is good.


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## Geoff48

Not perhaps a complete set of the symphonies by one conductor but valuable non the less.
Warner has a set of historical recordings mainly recorded in the thirties as part of the HMV Sibelius society 78 boxes. Originally it was intended that the symphonies be recorded by Robert Kajanus, a conductor friend of the composer and his preferred interpreter. Unfortunately he only managed to record no’s 1,2,3 and 5 before his untimely death and Beecham and Koussevitsky completed the set. The sound is obviously not hi fi but it is perfectly listenable to. The set also includes most of his other orchestral music including the Heifetz/Beecham violin concerto and his string quartet. 
Now I would never suggest this should be your only Sibelius in your collection but it is an invaluable guide to what the composer may have intended. 
If I had to suggest one stereo set I would opt for Barbirolli and the Halle. Yes the orchestra was good but certainly not world class and towards the end of his life Barbirolli tended to expansivity but it is clear that the conductor was in love with the music and that is worth a great deal. A more central interpretation which is highly recommended is that by Colin Davis, either with the Boston or London Symphony Orchestras but I really think Sir John has more to offer.


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## Allegro Con Brio

The three cycles I regard most highly are probably Bernstein, Berglund/Bournemouth, and Collins in that order. Berglund sounds most “idiomatic” to me, Collins makes the music sing and dance, but Bernstein simply lights the music on fire and projects it with dazzling colors.


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## Merl

Looks like Hurwitz has had his say on this too. Do you think he's reading this thread? Lol.


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## 89Koechel

Oh, no, Eclectic Al ... I hope you won't downgrade a Maazel/Sibelius' 4th any further! Sure, there was (in the pages of High Fidelity) a criticism that the VPO Cello player, esp. in the opening part, was "flaccid". Maazel seemed to reach a certain "zenith" in his Sibelius' Symphonic cycle, and maybe his results have been surpassed, in recent recordings. Well, I'll, again mention the man from Malmo/Sweden - Sixten Ehrling - in HIS transversal of the Sibelius 7 ... even in monaural recordings. These are FINELY-judged, propulsive and have (to my mind) the requisite BALANCE of inspiration, execution and the elements that a Sibelius' Symphony truly should HAVE, when it comes to a conductor's baton. Just an opinion, of course ... and thanks.


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## annaw

Eclectic Al said:


> Otherwise, Sibelius is a composer where I like most performances. They are pieces where I find that conductors struggle to ruin them. I seem to recall that years ago I had an LP (or even cassette - remember those) of Maazel doing number 4 and he managed to do a pretty bad job - but I can't remember why.


That's interesting. I've been listening to Sibelius a lot recently. I just finished Maazel's 2nd and I was rather impressed with it. It has great forward momentum. The last movement sounds very grand and the playing is in overall wonderfully driven. Now I'm interested to hear his account of the 4th, though - seems to really divide opinions (just read someone describe Maazel's cycle as "Hollywood" Sibelius and that was not a compliment).


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## Heck148

annaw said:


> .....Now I'm interested to hear his account of the 4th, though - seems to really divide opinions (just read someone describe Maazel's cycle as "Hollywood" Sibelius and that was not a compliment).


Maazel's VPO Sibelius #4 is quite good. My top choices are Bernstein/NYPO and Toscanini/NBC, but Maazel is next in line for me...It's on a cd with "Tapiola" which receives a terrific performance.


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## annaw

Heck148 said:


> Maazel's VPO Sibelius #4 is quite good. My top choices are Bernstein/NYPO and Toscanini/NBC, but Maazel is next in line for me...It's on a cd with "Tapiola" which receives a terrific performance.


I'm listening to Maazel's _Tapiola_ at the moment. Indeed, a great recording and VPO's playing is beautiful. It seems that I really need to check out the rest of his cycle as well . I feel Maazel's Sibelius is stylistically different from some of the more recent Sibelius recordings.


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## Heck148

annaw said:


> I'm listening to Maazel's _Tapiola_ at the moment. Indeed, a great recording and VPO's playing is beautiful. It seems that I really need to check out the rest of his cycle as well . I feel Maazel's Sibelius is stylistically different from some of the more recent Sibelius recordings.


I don't know all of Maazel's Sibelius symphonies...I've heard 3,4,6 and 7...they are good recordings...i prefer Bernstein in each, and some others, as well...but Maazel is certainly due an "honorable mention".


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## jim prideaux

Listened/watched Davie H......Sibelius 5 is my favourite symphony, Sibelius my favourite composer....

Went back to Davis/BSO a recording where he appears very clear in his recommendation.

No doubt very very good but I believe Segerstam in Helsinki has a clear edge!

Now have a bid in for the Gibson Chandos cycle on e bay........a result of Davie's comments re the 3rd which is my personal 2nd favourite among the 7......however relevant that comment might be!


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## Colin M

I love this thread. We are moving away from the key cycles to the works themselves. I think I saw a reply along the way that Sibelius is hard to ruin. I kind of agree but might add that Sibelius as a symphonist is also hard to perfect and different conductors succeeded at different symphonies


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## jim prideaux

Had a look at Hurwitz's written review of Segerstam's Helsinki 3rd and 5th. This has been one of my personal favourite Sibelius CD's for a while now. I learn that Davie and I are total agreement as he awards it 10 out of 10 on his two measures and the review is completely complementary!

Will listen again today in the knowledge I have got something right!


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## jim prideaux

You will be relieved to read that I believe Davie H. has got it right regarding Segerstam Helsinki 3/5.......on reflection and in comparison the acclaimed Davis/BSO recording of the 5th is just not quite as good!


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## Handelian

Karajan’sSibelius was admired by the composer himself. Of course, for some reason he never played no 3 but the rest are pretty fine whether with the Philharmonia or BPO


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## jim prideaux

Handelian said:


> Karajan'sSibelius was admired by the composer himself. Of course, for some reason he never played no 3 but the rest are pretty fine whether with the Philharmonia or BPO


I did read once that Sibelius himself was in the habit of heaping praise upon those conductors who happened to be performing his works at the time......Ormandy being an example, particularly when he was visiting Ainola!


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## Handelian

jim prideaux said:


> I did read once that Sibelius himself was in the habit of heaping praise upon those conductors who happened to be performing his works at the time......Ormandy being an example, particularly when he was visiting Ainola!


Yes he did, but Silbelius preferred Karajan's to Beecham's


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## wkasimer

Today's Hurwitz Youtube video features complete Sibelius sets:






(his preferences are Segerstam, Blomstedt/SFO, and Davis/BSO)


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

My favourite set is Blomstedt with SFSO. Recorded in the 90s in outstanding sound, all of the symphonies are among the best I've heard with the 7th being clearly the best one I've listened to. Everything about this set is great. I'm comparing it to other sets I own, Vanska with Lahti and Minnesota, Davis both with Boston and London, Karajan and BPO, Bergland and BSO, Ashkenazi and Philharmonia, Jansons and Oslo, which are pretty good in their own way but the Blomstedt is better than any of them overall.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> Today's Hurwitz Youtube video features complete Sibelius sets:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (his preferences are Segerstam, Blomstedt/SFO, and Davis/BSO)


I agree with Hurwitz that Blomstedt is excellent and Collins and Barbirolli are largely poor. I can't stand that awful-sounding Collins set.


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## Knorf

Why do we have to keep referring to Hurwitz? His preferences are uneducated, pretentious crap. I trust any number of reviewers here on TC over him.

ETA: I mean, Segerstam is great for Sibelius as long as you want to hear what that music might have sounded like if Segerstam ruined it, er, sorry I mean had composed it himself.


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## CnC Bartok

Merl said:


> I agree with Hurwitz that Blomstedt is excellent and Collins and Barbirolli are largely poor. I can't stand that awful-sounding Collins set.


As far as I am concerned, Collins is wonderful, and yes the sound is a bit dated, but to be honest it doesn't matter to me, it's even often hard to recognise that it's in mono.

My most redent acquisition in Sibelius has been the Vanska Minnesota cycle. It's all very nice and well played, but I don't think it adds anything whatsoever to his view of Sibelius that his Lahti cycle doesn't say (and there are plenty of times when the dynamic range is just as extreme) All in all I found it a bit dull......sorry.


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## jim prideaux

Knorf said:


> Why do we have to keep referring to Hurwitz? His preferences are uneducated, pretentious crap. I trust any number of reviewers here on TC over him.
> 
> ETA: I mean, Segerstam is great for Sibelius as long as you want to hear what that music might have sounded like if Segerstam ruined it, er, sorry I mean had composed it himself.


Rather harsh Knorfy and just after I had eulogised with regard to that particular cycle!


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## jim prideaux

jim prideaux said:


> Rather harsh Knorfy and just after I had eulogised with regard to that particular cycle!


.....and what does ETA stand for? (forgive my ignorance)


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## Knorf

jim prideaux said:


> Rather harsh Knorfy and just after I had eulogised with regard to that particular cycle!


Apologies. If you like it, please don't let my opinion stand in your way under any circumstances.



jim prideaux said:


> .....and what does ETA stand for? (forgive my ignorance)


ETA = "Edited To Add."


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## Ulfilas

Knorf said:


> Why do we have to keep referring to Hurwitz? His preferences are uneducated, pretentious crap. I trust any number of reviewers here on TC over him.
> 
> ETA: I mean, Segerstam is great for Sibelius as long as you want to hear what that music might have sounded like if Segerstam ruined it, er, sorry I mean had composed it himself.


I actually think it's a very good survey. Blomstedt is a great first choice I think, along with Berglund (I prefer the Helsinki cycle). But you're never going to agree on everything. At least his criteria are clear.


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## Knorf

Ulfilas said:


> At least [Hurwitz's] criteria are clear.


There's a significant list of caveats I'd add to this statement. But really those are for another thread, and I've already said my piece more than once.

I just wish I could convince TC posters to stop using Hurwitz as reference for opinions on recordings. There are SO many better reviewers in the world, including some of our very own here on TC.


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## jim prideaux

Listened again to Segerstam's 3rd. I can only reiterate a point I made ages ago in a different thread. In many recordings of this apparently underestimated symphony the problem ( to my ears) lies with the central movement. Almost underplayed in its significance it can sound almost like an interlude. Segerstam does not approach the work in this way and achieves a sense of balance whereby the central movement is performed with a sense of parity.

I watched Davie H ( thanks Merl) and will be taking little notice of his suggestion re the best cycle. It may well be my loss and only reflect my own opinion/prejudice but I am following Knorf's advice in this instance. Blomstedt with the SFSO have disappointed me before, primarily with their acclaimed Nielsen cycle. I find it rather too bland ( unlike his earlier Nielsen cycle with a Danish orchestra).....although his Hindemith recordings are a different matter!

I notice there is no mention of Oramo's cycle with the CBSO........a conductor who appears to too often 'go under the radar' ( his Schumann cycle with a Swedish orchestra is superb......but I digress and will now 'belt up!)


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## CnC Bartok

ETA? I thought Knorf was promoting Basque independence....

I don't see many taking Hurwitz as gospel here tbh. I quite enjoy watching him, although if he infuriates me with such crass nonsense such as his dismissal of Collins in Sibelius that might not last forever. Its interesting to hear an opinion, but I am now old enough and ugly enough to make my own opinion, in the same way as I'm not rejecting everything Gramophone says for fear of pro-British bias. Daft.


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## jim prideaux

Thanks CnC for the previous post as that just about encapsulates my opinion re Hurwitz. Have not heard the Collins set and have reservations about the dismissive tone that Hurwitz adopts.......same as his advocacy of the Blomstedt SFSO cycle will have little impact.

My initial introduction to the 5th came with the Decca Eclipse Tuxen/Jensen Danish RSO recording of the symphony with Finlandia and the Karlelia Suite c.50 years ago........Might have to get a copy as a Xmas pres to myself as I now do not know where it is!
At the time listening to the 5th for the first few time it came as a revelation and marked the point where my interest in classical music was really sparked....


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## julide

Listened to some davis lso live performances and the sound was horrible. I don't understand how it was recommended for good sound on here or was it just my speakers.


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## Allegro Con Brio

The Collins performances remain special for me. There is a special dancing quality in the quicker movements that you don’t find elsewhere. Phrasing is non-Romantic but still full of feeling. Everything breathes an idiomatic understanding of the composer and I frequently return to them. I think the sound is about as good as it gets for mono.

My favorite cycles remain Bernstein/NY for the sweeping, dramatic colors and Berglund/Bournemouth for the Finnish flavor. Ashkenazy is a quite underrated cycle with lovely plush playing and great sound that I return to often. But then there is Gibson, and that’s what I go for whenever I want some raw Nordic power! I’m afraid I’m not a fan of Vanska or Karajan in Sibelius, opposite ends of the spectrum as they are (though the Vanska/MN recordings are IMO better than the Lahti, I find his plain-Jane approach generally unrewarding).


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## Becca

Karajan's early Philharmonia recordings of the 2nd & 5th are quite good, not the best but definitely up there, before things really started getting Karajanized :lol:

P.S. I wonder how his style would have developed if Walter Legge had been involved with his BPO recordings.


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## HenryPenfold

Merl said:


> I agree with Hurwitz that Blomstedt is excellent and Collins and Barbirolli are largely poor. I can't stand that awful-sounding Collins set.


Blomstedt is excellent, the EMI Barbirolli set has too many poor moments, BUT the Collins traversal is excellent!!


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## Malx

Oramo, & Neeme Jarvi are two sets worth a listen that tend to fly under the radar. 
I keep going back to Collins - in the recent Great Performance box it sounds pretty decent for its age but if HiFi sound is a prerequisite then I guess you must look/listen elsewhere. 
Ashkenazy was my first set so there's an element of first love going on for me there. 
Berglund is probably the safest pair of hands all three sets are worthy but I do listen most to the Bournemouth box. 
Colin Davis is steady in Boston and London but the LSO live recordings do little for me.
I haven't heard Blomstedt - something to put right soon.
Karajan - I'm glad I have the recordings but I have to be in the mood (EMI & DG).
Vanska, Lahti is decent enough but lacks that special something - haven't heard the all the Minnesota set. 
I also have some Ehrling / Beecham / Koussevitzky and a few others that are primarily of historic interest, and I don't believe Barbirolli to be as bad as some others have said.
If I've missed some out, its just the memory starting to go.......


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## Knorf

Karajan for me is indispensable in Sibelius's Fourth and Sixth Symphonies. In both cases, I prefer the later EMI recordings. For the Fifth and Seventh, I prefer the DG. The EMI 1st is tremendous, one of the best, and the 2nd is a misfire. Such a pity he never did the Third! That would have been a good one for Karajan's skill set.

The best Sibelius cycle on BIS in my opinion is that of Okku Kamu, with Lahti. It's more detailed and more emotionally engaged to my ears than either of Vänskä's cycles, which admittedly are hardly bad.

"Hardly bad" is how I'd describe the Blomstedt/San Francisco cycle as well. I heard them do the Sixth live, on a very intriguing program of Berg's _Seven Early Songs_, then Sibelius Symphony 6, and concluding with Tchaikovsky's Sixth. It was terrific. But in the end, I have to admit I turn more enthusiastically to cycles other than this one.

For Neemi Järvi, I prefer his earlier Gothenburg cycle on BIS. (But the DG cycle is, again "hardly bad.")

All three of Berglund's cycles are great, but I find myself most intrigued by the Chamber Orchestra of Europe cycle. If you want something earthier, the Helsinki is the one to get, but I learned more about Sibelius from the CoE set.

Bernstein. Well, I'm glad I've heard them. But the only one of his Sibelius recordings I find truly indispensable is the NYPO Second, which might be my favorite of all them. The NYPO Fifth is also a favorite. The DG Bernstein Sibelius recordings (1, 2, 5 & 7) are only for the curious Bernstein fan, proof if you will that it _is_ possible to exaggerate too much in music.

It's a pity Saraste/Finnish Radio doesn't get mentioned more often in these threads. His RCA cycle is great, and the Finlandia cycle very close. Some reviewers swap preferences between the two. But definitely a more than worthy Sibelius voice, here.


----------



## Malx

I meant to mention the two live discs Berglund issued on the LPO's own label featuring Symphonies 2 & 7 and 5 & 6 - both discs offer first rate performances.


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## Knorf

Malx said:


> I meant to mention the two live discs Berglund issued on the LPO's own label featuring Symphonies 2 & 7 and 5 & 6 - both discs offer first rate performances.


I've been eyeing those...


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## Merl

There are plenty of decent Sibelius cycles not mentioned here. I'm currently enjoying Sakari's pared-down Naxos cycle at the moment. It's nice to return to it after a long break. Btw, I have the Collins cycle (along with many others) and I've had it for a few years. I just don't think it's particularly impressive (just an opinion).


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## wkasimer

In Fanfare's January/February 2007 issue, Richard Kaplan wrote a long and extremely detailed essay about the Sibelius symphonies and their recordings - worth seeking out if you're a subscriber.

Interestingly, among his five choices of complete cycles, three are the same as Hurwitz's - Davis/BSO, Segerstam/Helsinki, and Blomstedt/SFO. The other two are Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (Decca) and Rattle/CBSO.


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## Heck148

wkasimer said:


> Interestingly, among his five choices of complete cycles, three are the same as Hurwitz's - Davis/BSO, Segerstam/Helsinki, and Blomstedt/SFO. The other two are Ashkenazy/Philharmonia (Decca) and Rattle/CBSO.


I have to check out more of Blomstedt/SFSO - I have #2, which is really excellent, one of the very best.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Heck148 said:


> I have to check out more of Blomstedt/SFSO - I have #2, which is really excellent, one of the very best.


Blomstedt's 7th is the best one I've heard. 1st, 4th and 7th stand out for me but the others are all great too with the 3rd perhaps being the weakest in the cycle.


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## jim prideaux

This thread contributed to me getting hold of the Gibson RSNO cycle.....

listening now to the 3rd for the first time.


----------



## Broos

Just starting with Sibelius.

The only cycle i have is Barbirolli - Halle Orchestra and so far i like it.

And i have 2 albums (Symphony 1 and Symphony 2) by Santtu-Matias Rouvali and The Gotenburg Symphony. I believe nobody mentioned Santtu-Matias Rouvali in this thread so far. Anyone listened to these albums?


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## Knorf

Broos said:


> Just starting with Sibelius.
> 
> The only cycle i have is Barbirolli - Halle Orchestra and so far i like it.


And for good reason; it's a distinguished set.



> And i have 2 albums (Symphony 1 and Symphony 2) by Santtu-Matias Rouvali and The Gotenburg Symphony. I believe nobody mentioned Santtu-Matias Rouvali in this thread so far. Anyone listened to these albums?


I've been very curious about these, but have not heard them. I saw that Hurwitz bashed them harshly, but if anything that's a point in their favor. Like Procrustes of Greek myth, Hurwitz reflexively trashes any performances that stray even slightly from his arbitrary, narrowly-defined preferences, which of course like Procrustes's bed are absolutely objective...


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## starthrower

jim prideaux said:


> This thread contributed to me getting hold of the Gibson RSNO cycle.....
> 
> listening now to the 3rd for the first time.


I love that Gibson cycle. And the 3, 6&7 disc is my fave of the three. Some great sounding brass on these excellent recordings. I don't even reach for my Berglund set anymore.


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## Becca

Broos said:


> And i have 2 albums (Symphony 1 and Symphony 2) by Santtu-Matias Rouvali and The Gotenburg Symphony. I believe nobody mentioned Santtu-Matias Rouvali in this thread so far. Anyone listened to these albums?


I think that Rouvali's 1st is very good, up near the top of my list (admittedly not my favourite Sibelius). I have only heard the 2nd one time so will not make any judgments other than it is unlikely to better the Barbirolli/RPO or even the Karajan/Philharmonia.


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## Becca

Knorf said:


> I've been very curious about these, but have not heard them. I saw that Hurwitz based them harshly, but if anything that's a point in their favor. Like Procrustes of Greek myth, Hurwitz reflexively trashes any performances that stray even slightly from his arbitrary, narrowly-defined preferences, which of course like Procrustes's bed are absolutely objective...


Hurwitz' opinion just reinforces my view as to the value thereof.


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## CnC Bartok

Knorf said:


> I've been eyeing those...


Don't just eye them, buy them! They are superb performances, very well recorded, even if you can hear Berglund encouraging his orchestra on more then one occasion!


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## Joachim Raff

For a consistent box-set without the need of getting individual recordings I would recommend the Bergund/ BSO or Segerstam/HSO but that would no fun.
My favourite individual recording are:

Kullervo: Berglund/BSO 
Lemminkaïnen: Paavo Järvi 
1. Maazel/VPO
2. Barbirolli/RPO
3. Kamu/Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra 
4. Sanderling/BSO
5. Vanska \ Lahti SO
6. Karajan/BPO
7. Segerstam/ HSO

What i fascinating is, the same names do keep creeping up.


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## flamencosketches

The one I always return to is Berglund in Bournemouth. Just about every symphony is exactly how I want it to sound. A perfect balance of the lean Nordic sound and a more full bodied Romantic style. Damn, what a conductor. I finally ordered the Ashkenazy/Philharmonia set, it's en route to me now. The other one I have is Sakari/Iceland on Naxos, which is also really good. Kind of the same style of Vänskä/Lahti, but I like it better.


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## hoodjem

The two cycles, about which I've heard the most rave reviews, are Vanska/Lahti and Barbirolli/ Halle.


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## Merl

hoodjem said:


> The two cycles, about which I've heard the most rave reviews, are Vanska/Lahti and Barbirolli/ Halle.


Hmm, I'm not sure the Barbirolli set is universally loved by everyone. For once, I slightly agree with Hurwitz (although I'm nowhere as dismissive as him) regarding the Barbirolli set. Although I don't dislike it I find many of the performances too slow and some of the playing of my hometown orchestra (the Halle) is sometimes quite ropey (but I blame Barbirolli for some of that). As I said, I don't think it's a 'bad' set but I much prefer others for a complete cycle. One of the cycles that many rate on here and critically is the Berglund / Bournemouth set (see above). Very few people have a bad word to say about it and it often turns up cheap secondhand on cd. I paid peanuts for that cycle (£3) yet I return to it often.


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## tancredi76

ptr said:


> Can't stand Vänskä's Sibelius, me thinks he conducts the orchestra like it is a Clarinet, no foundation at all, just a lot of wind!
> 
> /ptr


Couldn't agree more. Not sure if this is a minority view, but wow, the first movement of the first is a disaster of pacing, oddly compressed and rushed. Hardly recognizable.


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## Heck148

tancredi76 said:


> Couldn't agree more. Not sure if this is a minority view, but wow, the first movement of the first is a disaster of pacing, oddly compressed and rushed. Hardly recognizable.


I tend to agree about Vanska/Sibelius....the only one I really checked out was the complete Karelia music, for which I had high hopes...I love the suite....however, not to be - pretty awful...dull, flaccid, wimpy...not even close to Gibson (overture) or Barbirolli's high-stepping, wonderfully swaggering account (A la Marcia, etc), to say nothing of Fennell's excellent brassy March...i don't understand all the hoopla about this guy.


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