# World's Favorite Orchestra



## Vaneyes

Drumroll. World's favorite orchestra is...

http://www.cleveland.com/musicdance/index.ssf/2013/10/cleveland_orchestra_voted_worl.html

http://www.bachtrack.com/files/wfo top 20 final.jpg

Americans do know ballot-box stuffing. They do it every year for MLB's All-Star game.


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## Turangalîla

How on EARTH did they get 20%—I hadn't even heard of them!


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## moody

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> How on EARTH did they get 20%-I hadn't even heard of them!


When George Szell was their conductor they were equal to and better than most of the world's orchestras. But he died in 1970.
I don't know what they're like now,somebody from Cleveland might like to comment ?


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## Pip

I don't like the question, it is too subjective. The world's best would be more appropriate.
Cleveland could not be the "favourite", it is no longer so much in the public eye as it was 45 years ago. With the kind of recording contract that Szell had and the promotion that CBS made for him elevated the Cleveland to a position of eminence among the world's elite orchestras. I don't know if that still holds true today.
I would say that the Chicago Symphony with their succession of great principal conductors from Reiner to Muti and all the great in between would have a better chance at that title.
as for the world's "favourite", just based on the viewing figures every January 1st, the Vienna Philharmonic springs to mind.


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## dgee

Well, that is interesting - however I can't see the bachtrack link on my machine so all based on the CO link. 

What I know about the world's orchestras is based on recent recordings and second hand from a number of good friends who have played all over Europe and the US (including a lot of the top pick bands). Some thoughts peppered with received wisdom:

Cleveland were great and pioneered the big clean US sound with a European richness and carried that on through Szell (backed up by the systematically excellent Curtis Institute) but they are definitely on the wane from what I've heard 
RTE concert orchestra? No merit-based explanation for this
Berlin Phil are going from strength to strength (really getting the best players from everywhere) - digital concert hall is sooo well done and such a solid idea - should be top
Vienna carries on in their own special way polishing up their own special sound but not as flexible as Berlin
LSO is clearly the leading UK band and has been for a while - they haven't so much pulled away from the rest as the rest are not quite keeping up with advancing technical an artistic standards. For my taste (and others'), still not able to create the huge sound the Americans and some Europeans can through weighty sounding strings and rich heavy brass 
Concertgebouw - still consistently awesome. The strong in every department option
NY Phil - a unique sound, a bad hall, too brash for some? Quite possibly
Chicago - US pioneer of huge sound but suspicions they are falling away
Surprised didn't do better? San Francisco - well run, popular and very good. Montreal - apparently reliable and historically a big and well-recorded name. Bavarian Radio - such a great blend! What about some chamber orchestras and original instrument bands you guys (go Freiburg!!)?


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## moody

Pip said:


> I don't like the question, it is too subjective. The world's best would be more appropriate.
> Cleveland could not be the "favourite", it is no longer so much in the public eye as it was 45 years ago. With the kind of recording contract that Szell had and the promotion that CBS made for him elevated the Cleveland to a position of eminence among the world's elite orchestras. I don't know if that still holds true today.
> I would say that the Chicago Symphony with their succession of great principal conductors from Reiner to Muti and all the great in between would have a better chance at that title.
> as for the world's "favourite", just based on the viewing figures every January 1st, the Vienna Philharmonic springs to mind.


What a strange opinion,the reason for the Clevelanders' pre-eminece was George Szell and the way he handled and built up the orchestra. I saw them often and it was breathtaking.


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## Pip

WHAT a strange answer to my post Moody. Sometimes I don't think,that you even understand the context of what I have written.
The Cleveland Orchestra would have remained a fine provincial orchestra without Szell and his recording contract. He built them into something tremendous, and his many recordings brought them to the public notice and achieved a popularity that developed with European tours ect. That was 43 years ago. 
Since his death they have not remained such a force as before. Their place in the pecking order has changed.
Vaneyes, proposition was "The World's favourite orchestra". There is no way that the Cleveland would or could ever merit that description whatever you think about them. They could conceivably win an American Favourite Orchestra poll, but not the World.


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## moody

Pip said:


> WHAT a strange answer to my post Moody. Sometimes I don't think,that you even understand the context of what I have written.
> The Cleveland Orchestra would have remained a fine provincial orchestra without Szell and his recording contract. He built them into something tremendous, and his many recordings brought them to the public notice and achieved a popularity that developed with European tours ect. That was 43 years ago.
> Since his death they have not remained such a force as before. Their place in the pecking order has changed.
> Vaneyes, proposition was "The World's favourite orchestra". There is no way that the Cleveland would or could ever merit that description whatever you think about them. They could conceivably win an American Favourite Orchestra poll, but not the World.


I'm sorry but it's you who seem to misunderstand. Why was he given a recording contract,just on a whim do you suppose ?
I said nothing about their position in the world,nothing.
In fact I stated that I didn't know their situation now and I suggested that somebody from Cleveland should let us know the present situation.


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## moody

I was looking at past directors of the Cleveland Orchestra :
Artur Rodzinski 1933/43. A fierce orchestral trainer he trained the NBC Orchestra for Toscanini. This is also where the contract with American Columbia started.
Erich Leinsdorf, No slouch really.


I was looking at their website and was most impressed by what I read,it belies everything that Pip has said. So where did he get his information from,I'm sure he'll tell us.
The orchestra by the way is still listed in America's big five orchestras I note.
In the information that I've read it merely states that under Szell the recording schedule increased.
The present director Franz-Welser Moest has been there eleven years so I can only presume that he's alright ! Donald Rosenburg in the "Cleveland Orchestra Story " labels them second to none.

All this and more is easily available and I' ve found it best to read up before launching into print.


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## Ukko

How do you determine "the world's favorite orchestra? With a *poll* of course. Do you suppose that TC is sufficiently representative? Sure you do.


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## dgee

Moody - do you really think reading the organisation's own promotional material is more accurate than actual listening or professional opinion? Or are you being contrary?

The Big Five American Orchestras is a somewhat outdated concept and you might want to read more about that on the thoroughly referenced wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_(orchestras)


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