# Maestro2Maestro :Article on the relationship between Bernstein and Karajan



## SalieriIsInnocent

I don't know if it counts as news, as some of you may have already read this, or knew about it.

As it was news to me, I thought I would share this interesting article.


It seems as though they could have been friends if the cards weren't dealt so poorly.


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## violadamore2

Thanks for posting. I'm sure you're aware LB only conducted the Berlin Phil one time for a concert and live recording of Mahler's 9th. I forget where (maybe first movement) the trombones miss a prominent entrance. Accident or intentional?


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## World Violist

violadamore2 said:


> Thanks for posting. I'm sure you're aware LB only conducted the Berlin Phil one time for a concert and live recording of Mahler's 9th. I forget where (maybe first movement) the trombones miss a prominent entrance. Accident or intentional?


The trombones miss the entrance at the climax of the finale, actually. I haven't heard it myself, but I've heard that it's one of the best Mahler 9ths ever regardless.

As to whether it was accidental or intentional, I don't see why it would be either, really. It's a rather silly thing to wonder about if you ask me, merely because most of the people involved are probably dead or something like that. The reason is lost to history by now.

As to the article, it's really fascinating. I'd heard something about this, but it's great to see a more "fleshed out" telling of the story. Amazing how seemingly minor circumstances largely beyond one's control can radically change a relation or history itself.


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## superhorn

I've heard the recording , and in the last movement the trombones do for some reason,not come in.Very unlike this highly polished orchestra. But those things happen in live performaces. There have been more than a few similar mishaps in concerts I've played in over the years,although I unfortunately never had the opportunity to play in an orchestra as auugust as the Berliners. 
There's a live Mahler 6th on the superbudget laserlght label with Hartmut Haenchen
and the Nwetherlands Philharmojnic,where the trumpets make a glaring early entrance in the finale.


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## violadamore2

I've remembered a recording of Barbarolli and a German radio orchestra in a live concert of the Mahler 2 and the trumpets make a very wrong entrance. Also a live recording Mahler 4 with Berlin and Abaddo in the slow movement at the great climax where the timpani beat out the big two eighth note motto and the top note is a half-step flat. He fixed very quickly, it would seem to spoil an otherwise perfect recording of the 4th, but there's SO much this performance has it's worth it. It's the DG with Fleming as the boy singer.

And there's the Mahler 8th with Bernstein and Austrian Radio Orch. The organist comes in OK in the lst two minutes, yet he holds on to his chord for twice too long. I think it was only issue because LB and died and they wanted a complete modern recording to complete the cycle.


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## drth15

*Bernstein/Karajan*

The Bernstein/Berlin Mahler 9th momentarily stumbles in the 4th movement, when the orchestra seems to loose its way and a climactic trombone entrance is missed. This moment is jarring, but has never struck me as planned, and the balance of the movement is played with angelic beauty, as if the orchestra is atoning for its error.


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## 1648

It's not like Bernstein was the only victim of von Karajan's paranoia, he severed ties with numerous artists on grounds of similarly vague suspicious of disloyalty.


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