# Mozart: Symphony 40 vs. 41, a poll



## clavichorder

A contest between Mozart's last two symphonies. Hopefully this will be somewhat interesting.


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## KenOC

Wow, the 40 and the 41. No way am I going to vote on this one!


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## clavichorder

KenOC said:


> Wow, the 40 and the 41. No way am I going to vote on this one!


For me its quite easy. I find 40 more moving, almost romantic. Each movement is extremely thrilling. 41 is reputed to be extremely ingenious and yet it is permeated in parts by a relatively cool emotional scope.


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## trazom

38 is my favorite, but I'll have to go with #41 mainly because of the second movement. It's very 'late' Mozart' in style like his 27th piano concerto, which is my favorite: brimming with intelligence and emotion despite a thinner, almost austere texture in the music.


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## Andreas

I like no. 40 better, not only for the almost-twelve-tone-row in the finale, but that's a great tiny moment. Kind of like the beauty mark on Marilyn Monroe's face. The Jupiter's opening movement, on the other hand, sounds a little too kitschy to me, even by Mozart's standard, and the finale, although wonderfully conceived, only really makes me sad that Mozart did not equip all of his works with a stronger contrapuntal foundation.


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## GGluek

I too am a big fan of 38. One cannot deny the greatness of 40, but I've always been turned off by the whineyness of the first movement (that's just _my_ reaction to it), so I prefer 41. No accounting for taste however.


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## neoshredder

40 ftw.


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## presto

I cant decide, both are utter masterpieces and I enjoy one as much as the other.


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## realdealblues

I voted 40. I don't have a musicologist answer...I just like it better.


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## Ukko

I dislike both of them, 40 more than 41. Too much stopping and starting, like the symphony is in city traffic.


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## neoshredder

Sounds like CPE Bach. I like stopping and starting. CPE Bach was great at it.


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## Guest

The 40th has a drab first movement and a comical last. The 41st wins by default.


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## mmsbls

Two of the greatest symphonies ever written. 40 is more evocative and poignant. 41 is in some sense austere but nonetheless beautiful. For me 41 is the closest anyone has ever gotten to musical perfection. The final movement never ceases to amaze and delight me. I think I could listen to each symphony once a week for the rest of my life and never tire of the sheer beauty in both.
If pressed I would vote 41, but both are musical gems of the highest order.


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## Ukko

neoshredder said:


> Sounds like CPE Bach. I like stopping and starting. CPE Bach was great at it.


CPE did it for esthetic reasons. Mozart did it to annoy me.


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## joen_cph

The other day I got an old stereo LP with the two symphonies (price around 0,25€), No.40 was an an old Mercury-Philips Dorati/Minneapolis recording (actually the reason I bought the LP), in No.41 the conductor was Schmidt-Isserstedt, a musician I thought of as being rather dull. 

But nonetheless 41 turned out to be a fascinating performance, unusually clear in its playing, the motifs and the structure. Somewhat light in the playing style (probably related to some of the HIP performances in that respect, but I tend to avoid those), nonetheless architecturally very convincing. And it really struck me then, how these two symphonies to an unusual degree illustrate the importance and effect of the individual recording, also as regards the psychological experience of a work - which is - at some level - quintessential also for one´s preferences.

Take No.40, where some conductors plays the 1st movement in a rather gentle, restrained or resigned way (Böhm, for instance), others emphasize the potential intense drama there (Karajan EMI, to my ears at least). 

Or take the 1st Movement of the 41st, which becomes pompous, massive and broad with Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, or light and fireworks-like with Schmidt-Isserstedt.

I´ve got a good deal of recordings, 12 of No.40 and 9 of No.41, and I am probably rather alone in appreciating the EMI Karajan recordings of the later Mozart symphonies (I´m not so fond of the DGs); other favourites are Harnoncourt and Britten in No.40, and Walter and Harnoncourt/ Concertgebouw in No.41, just to mention some. 

I don´t think I´ll grow tired of exploring these two works & find it impossible to choose between them. The 40th was one of the first classical symphonies I heard and has always been a favourite of mine, but my appreciation of No.41 is growing.


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## Kieran

41.

It's the greatest symphony of them all, before symphony creation went up its own _A-double-dollar-sign..._


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## Ondine

Both are wonderful. 

Hard to give a vote but tempted to give it, my vote is for number 40.

I feel that 40 is more about the temper of Mozart as that of his enjoyment to surprise -playing with - the audience.

As an aside comment, the ones that I love most are Haffner, Linz and Prague.

Maybe could be good to have a poll for this three.


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## Ondine

Kieran said:


> 41.
> 
> It's the greatest symphony of them all, before symphony creation went up its own _A-double-dollar-sign..._


Hello Kieran. I'm curious... what means _'a double dollar sign'._ English is not my first language.


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## Ondine

Hilltroll72 said:


> [...]. Mozart did it to annoy me.


That's Mozart... :lol:

He always tried to annoy Colloredo and Co.


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## presto

I’ll always have a soft spot for these beautiful two symphonies because they were on the very first classical recording I ever bought. 
Colin Davis was the conductor on a music for pleasure LP, I still have it in the loft somewhere.
I had an old second hand record player, probably from the 1960’s and used to play the record over and over again.
Even now listening to these works 40 years on it takes me back to my childhood.


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## obwan

I voted for 40 but wanted to vote for 39. Why did you leave his greatest symphony off the poll?


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## Huilunsoittaja

Glazunov compare the final mvmt. of the Mozart Symphony 41 to the Cologne Cathedral, I guess that means something important about it. 

I still vote 40 though, I like the tunes more.


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## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> CPE did it for esthetic reasons. Mozart did it to annoy me.


Rather brilliant of him to write it knowing that his goal would one day be achieved when Hilltroll72 first heard it and became annoyed.


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## Kieran

Ondine said:


> Hello Kieran. I'm curious... what means _'a double dollar sign'._ English is not my first language.


Hi Ondine,

_A-double-dollar-sign_ means....A$$! :lol: :tiphat:


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## clavichorder

obwan said:


> I voted for 40 but wanted to vote for 39. Why did you leave his greatest symphony off the poll?


I love 39 too, particularly that amazing intro in the 1st movement, but I wanted it to be a contest between the two "warhorse" symphonies.


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## Ukko

clavichorder said:


> Rather brilliant of him to write it knowing that his goal would one day be achieved when Hilltroll72 first heard it and became annoyed.


He was a brilliant dude. There was a time when I thought 41 was OK. Which probably annoyed _him_.


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## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> He was a brilliant dude. There was a time when I thought 41 was OK. Which probably annoyed _him_.


I'm sure he was rolling in his grave.


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## Kieran

clavichorder said:


> I love 39 too, particularly that amazing intro in the 1st movement, but I wanted it to be a contest between the two "warhorse" symphonies.


They do kinda come in a 3-pack, but much as I love the 39th, I think his last three symphs grow exponentially, culminating in the perfection of the Jupiter. I placed it ahead of the 40th because I think that movement for movement, it's better. The music seems larger in the Jupiter than in the 40th.

The first movement of the Great G-minor is comparable, maybe, to the opening movement of the 41st, but then there's the almost esoteric mysteriousness of the Jupiter's andante, the precise sweeping motion of the minuet, that beautiful switch into the trio. The final movement is the greatest final movement of anything, it gets so cluttered - without ever losing its clarity. gets to the stage at the end where it could be a parlour game, counting how many themes and musical ideas he juggles in the air at the same time. Some commentators say six, but I've read seven. It really breaks my heart wondering what Mozart would have done with the symphony, had he even had another five years of life, and another five symphs....


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## Ukko

Kieran said:


> [...]
> gets to the stage at the end where it could be a parlour game, counting how many themes and musical ideas he juggles in the air at the same time. Some commentators say six, but I've read seven. It really breaks my heart wondering what Mozart would have done with the symphony, had he even had another five years of life, and another five symphs....


I have read that he had those themes and runs stashed in a desk drawer, and stuffed them into 41 because he was planning no more symphonies; no profit in them. He was still young, figured he could make a better living as a haberdasher.


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## Ramako

One day I hope I will be able to enjoy the Jupiter...

40, on the other hand, has always been a favourite of mine, although the last movement does become (for me) a little academic at times.


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## RadiGen

41 - The 1st, 2nd and 4th movements are just... Great!


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## KenOC

Voted the Jupiter, without much confidence in the choice. I wish the poll had included the last six -- I find myself listening to the Prague and #39 more often, maybe due to overexposure.


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## presto

I always wonder what kind of symphonies Mozart would have composed if he had lived to 76.
He could have easily written an extra 40 more of them, and that would have only been one symphony a year.
What a thought!


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## neoshredder

presto said:


> I always wonder what kind of symphonies Mozart would have composed if he had lived to 76.
> He could have easily written an extra 40 more of them, and that would have only been one symphony a year.
> What a thought!


On pace with Haydn possibly. Those Classical Era Composers were prolific no doubt.


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## ProudSquire

Let's listen with fresh phonological ears, to pilfer the words of a certain someone!






So good!


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## KenOC

neoshredder said:


> Those Classical Era Composers were prolific no doubt.


Herschel, the famous astronomer, was also a prolific composer though a bit nearsighted. He wrote 24 symphonies before he was able to discover his -- uh -- I mean, Uranus.


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## poconoron

neoshredder said:


> On pace with Haydn possibly. Those Classical Era Composers were prolific no doubt.


I believe _presto_ was referring to the advancements Mozart made with his last 4 symphonies, in particular, and was daydreaming about how Mozart might have advanced the form much, much further had he lived another 20-30 years or so.

Your statement about how "prolific those classical composers (primarily Haydn and Mozart) were" completely misses the point. But I think you know that............ and the implied undercurrent seems to be that, yes, they were so prolific, but not particularly groundbreaking. And that is, of course, nonsense.


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## neoshredder

My assumption was that they would be great. Just like Haydn's Symphonies. So you missed the point of my post. And it is true that they were prolific. Not a bad thing.


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## poconoron

neoshredder said:


> My assumption was that they would be great. Just like Haydn's Symphonies. So you missed the point of my post. And it is true that they were prolific. Not a bad thing.


Excellent.......... in that case, then I created and destroyed the wrong straw man!


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## Manxfeeder

TheProudSquire said:


> Let's listen with fresh phonological ears, to pilfer the words of a certain someone!


Oh, nuts. I love their skill, but today all it's doing is conjuring up the cast of Glee.


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## Manxfeeder

Personally, I connect more with 40. George Szell sees the first movement as a prayer. Charles Rosen called it one of Mozart's supreme expressions of suffering and terror, then noted also in it there is something shockingly voluptuous.


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## clavichorder

Manxfeeder said:


> Oh, nuts. I love their skill, but today all it's doing is conjuring up the cast of Glee.


The vocal tone quality of the singers is a bit Pop-ish.


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## DaDirkNL

The 40th, but with the 41st a millimeter behind.


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## Mandryka

Manxfeeder said:


> Personally, I connect more with 40. George Szell sees the first movement as a prayer. Charles Rosen called it one of Mozart's supreme expressions of suffering and terror, then noted also in it there is something shockingly voluptuous.


Where did Szell say he saw the first movement of 40 as a prayer?


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I voted the G minor because I personally prefer a more 'focussed' sound and I like how Mozart keeps the mood of the symphony constant. The Menuet is also one of his best, I think.


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## shangoyal

Jupiter is my pick because I like happy and uplifting Mozart better than emotional and disturbed Mozart.


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## Mahlerian

I like both about evenly, so I'm glad to have tied the poll with a vote for the C major.


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## LancsMan

Well I've voted for the Jupiter. But on a movement by movement basis it's quite an even match.

I prefer the first movement of the G minor.

The slow movement of the Jupiter wows me big time.

Slight preference for the minuet in the G minor.

Strong preference for the Jupiter Finale - Mozart really showing off here - what miracles he can achieve from some undistinguished thematic scraps. (Although the 40 Finale has that extraordinary modulation passage at the start of the development - using every chromatic tone except the tonic).


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## Dustin

My vote goes to 41 although I love both.

The first and last movement of the Jupiter seal it for me. The 1st movement of the 41st has just an irresistible melody that ranks near the top of my all-time favorite melodies. 

And the finale...well, that needs no explanation. Just an extraordinary ending that gives me chills every time.


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## starry

Although 40 is obviously a brilliant piece I somehow expected 41 to win this poll clearly.


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## Vesteralen

I just made it even 34 to 34 by voting for #40.

Though, as I've said many times (you may say, "ad nauseum") #39 is my personal favorite.


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## Winterreisender

I've just pushed 41 into the lead again. I find the piece utterly joyous and the finale never ceases to amaze me. However I agree with Vesteralen that 39 is superior to both!!


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## starry

I definitely prefer the slow movement of 41 to that in 39. There is something so expressive and personal about it, while still being fluid and inevitable sounding.


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## Vesteralen

starry said:


> I definitely prefer the slow movement of 41 to that in 39. There is something so expressive and personal about it, while still being fluid and inevitable sounding.


Yes. There's no doubt that the slow movement is the weak link in #39.

I don't know what it is, but I think I just don't have the "triumphal" gene. I'm totally unmoved by the final movements of Mozart's #41 and Beethoven's 5th as well. Give me something frenetic like Beethoven's 2nd or mercurial like Haydn or like Mozart's 39th everytime.


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## scratchgolf

Vesteralen said:


> Yes. There's no doubt that the slow movement is the weak link in #39.
> 
> I don't know what it is, but I think I just don't have the "triumphal" gene. I'm totally unmoved by the final movements of Mozart's #41 and Beethoven's 5th as well. Give me something frenetic like Beethoven's 2nd or mercurial like Haydn or like Mozart's 39th everytime.


I really enjoy the fact that opinions can differ on a specific topic so greatly here, yet have no bearing on other topics. Often in other genres of music, I find polar opposites to be just that. Here you can see eye to eye with someone a majority of the time but have some stark contrast to specific works. Take Beethoven's 5th finale, for example. I find it to absolutely glorious and uplifting. Certainly I'd call it "heroic" if any of his works are. It's the only movement of any symphony I regularly listen to as a stand alone work.


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## csacks

I would vote for number 38 if were it included, but the 40th is, from my ears, better than Jupiter. Just from the bottom of my right hemisphere. No technical analysis (I do not have how to do that)


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## Vesteralen

scratchgolf said:


> Take Beethoven's 5th finale, for example. I find it to absolutely glorious and uplifting. Certainly I'd call it "heroic" if any of his works are. It's the only movement of any symphony I regularly listen to as a stand alone work.


I understand exactly what you're saying. It all makes perfect sense.

It's odd, though...I just don't really feel it. I was able to feel it a little more when I was younger, I guess, though never to the degree you're describing.

Anyway, I agree it is fascinating how we differ on our reactions to things, and I'm happy we can be honest about it without descending into argument.


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## scratchgolf

I joined another forum days before this but was very frustrated with the one-upmanship and basic nonsense most of the members engaged in. It was a general music forum and the Classical threads were crickets. I'm very happy to have found this one, as most member are older than me and very mature. I'm 36 but I've always enjoyed the company of older, more intelligent people. I think the day my great grandfather told me he saw Babe Ruth play in person was the day I realized there's a lot you can learn if you just listen to those with experience.


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## starry

Vesteralen said:


> It's odd, though...I just don't really feel it. I was able to feel it a little more when I was younger, I guess, though never to the degree you're describing.


Yeh I also probably liked the end of the 5th even more when I was younger. Of course it's still a great piece, and one of my biggest favourites of his symphonies. But there's so much heroic Beethoven and I like the change of pace with the 6th which can feel more personal to me.

And although Mozart's 41st is in the triumphal C major key I'm not sure he liked to do pieces often that were pure triumph. The first movement has that comic opera theme, and there are troubling moments in the work, apart from the slow movement there's the trio in the minuet. The 40th is great too of course, but in some ways it might be a more straightforward piece in a sturm und drang style.


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## Vesteralen

starry said:


> And although Mozart's 41st is in the triumphal C major key I'm not sure he liked to do pieces often that were pure triumph. The first movement has that comic opera theme, and there are troubling moments in the work, apart from the slow movement there's the trio in the minuet. .


Well, I was referring specifically to the last movement, which is an amazing piece of writing to be sure. There's just something about me that doesn't respond to it the way most people do. It's a complete intellectual exercise to me, and what is moving to many about it is just, I don't know, kind of loud.


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## starry

I wouldn't say it's an exercise, but it could be overhyped considering how it seems to get talked about at the expense of the rest of the piece. The classical style if anything balanced a piece towards the first half of the work more often than not and the slow movement to me is the heart of 41.


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## trazom

Vesteralen said:


> Yes. There's no doubt that the slow movement is the weak link in #39.


I feel the exact opposite, the second movement of the 39th is the deepest section and most moving to me. The first half of the symphony feels more like late Mozart than the rest.


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## Vesteralen

trazom said:


> I feel the exact opposite, the second movement of the 39th is the deepest section and most moving to me. The first half of the symphony feels more like late Mozart than the rest.


Endless differences of opinion. It's good to recognize that's all they are.


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## starry

trazom said:


> I feel the exact opposite, the second movement of the 39th is the deepest section and most moving to me. The first half of the symphony feels more like late Mozart than the rest.


Even if that was the case there's obviously some moving such as joyously moving) and great music in earlier Mozart too. The last two movements are certainly popular. The first two movements are in a way more ambitious but that doesn't _have_ to make them better of course.


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## DebussyDoesDallas

Hate to say it, but "Jupiter" as great as it obviously is, has never been a personal favorite, whereas 40 is an all-time champ.


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## lupinix

hm difficult choice, have to think of it, 1st movement of 40 is great, but the jupiter symphony is also great as a whole


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## DeepR

Time to change the perfect balance (40/40 votes). 
I've been listening to both symphonies today. 
Symphony No. 41 wins, simply because of the supreme greatness of the final movement. And that's funny because now the votes are 40/41!


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## DeepR

Oh come on!!!


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## brotagonist

I can't, in all fairness, vote. I have a few dozen Mozart CDs, but only one disc of symphonies, Nrs. 39 and 41. 41 wins by default?


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## lupinix

finally chose 40, wasn't easy though
I first listened again to his 41 today, at which I thought: yeah this ones definitely better
but then I listened to 40 and changed my mind, was doubting again halfway but in the end I like this one best


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## shangoyal

The Jupiter lost?


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## tgtr0660

No. 40 was one of the works that got me into classical music at a very early age and it used to be my favorite. Also, I always tend to minor-key works with all composers, especially with Mozart (k. 466, K 626, etc). But with time 41 started to gain on me until I essentially had an epiphany of the greatness of the Finale. Then it all fall into place, including the too-beautiful second movement and the perfect first one. Only the minuet doesn't fully match other ones yet but the surrounding movements are enough to make it my favorite Mozart symphony.


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## Whistler Fred

A close call, to be sure. But I'll give my vote to the Jupiter, The coda of the Finale almost always thrills me.


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## jlaw

This one is simply a matter of testing listener's mood. You get about equal number of people who are either ecstatic or melancholy.


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## DavidA

Can't we just like and appreciate both as masterpieces?


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## Itullian

Jupiter for me 
That and 36.


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## Mahlerian

DavidA said:


> Can't we just like and appreciate both as masterpieces?


I think the constant back-and-forth shows that as a community, we do!

I voted for the C major only because it was behind at the time.


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## Eviticus

41 for me all the way although I'd say 40 has the better minuet. It definitely sounds like he was moving away from the traditional minuet in his last 3 symphonies with 40 having his finest in my opinion.

For me Jupiter has my favourite symphonic slow movement (the Prague has my 2nd favourite). Subjective as it may be, it just feels like Mozart at his most sincere.


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## Roi N

Two of the greatest symphoniews ever written. And yet there is no competition. The 41st might as well be the best symphony in the symphonic repertoire. The first movement is enormous, and has three amazing themes. The development is so good, it's almost like Haydn wrote it. And the last movement - counterpoint _everywhere_. The main theme, the bridge, the secondary theme, the development, and the peak of all - the coda fugue. Sorry 40th, you're amazing as well, but this isn't even close.


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## Radames

I broke the tie! Normally I go for minor key works, but the finale of 41 has some of the best couterpoint ever with 5 melodies.


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## Roi N

Radames said:


> I broke the tie! Normally I go for minor key works, but the finale of 41 has some of the best couterpoint ever with 5 melodies.


I'd drink to that! Wow de Mozart redifine the word "coda".


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## Alydon

I think we all grew up on both of them and it is almost impossible to choose between these mighty masterpieces. Over the years I have been drawn to 41. I think this is a very difficult symphony to get right and having just listened to Bruno Walter in this work and am convinced of its ultimate greatness. Although Mozart didn't know it was to be his last symphony there hangs around it a finality which is hard to ignore, and although it opens with triumph it is somehow tinged with sadness as well - many other great symphonies before him but this one was to show what might have been. A last symphonic statement from this greatest of composers.


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## Chronochromie

I love them both but 41 wins for me.


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## hpowders

Ukko said:


> I dislike both of them, 40 more than 41. Too much stopping and starting, like the symphony is in city traffic.


I'm with you. I find symphony #40 annoying. As for #41, I can think of 12 Haydn symphonies I prefer to it.

Mozart wrote great music. I find it in the piano concertos, the operas, concert arias and string quintets. Not here.


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## Celloman

Tied it up! 56 - 56

Why? Because #40 is dark and sweet, like chocolate.


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## Chronochromie

Can you list those 12 Haydn symphonies? you mean the "London" ones?


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## KenOC

Der Leiermann said:


> Can you list those 12 Haydn symphonies? you mean the "London" ones?


My father used to say, "Comparisons are odious." I never really agreed with him, but comparing Haydn and Mozart symphonies...I guess it's true!


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## Guest

I have two versions of #41, one whose 4th movement lasts around 6 minutes (Marriner/St Martin in the Fields) and the other whose 4th lasts around 11 minutes (Abbado/Orchestra Mozart)...what's going on??


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## hpowders

Der Leiermann said:


> Can you list those 12 Haydn symphonies? you mean the "London" ones?


Yes. #93-104. My personal preferences. Like what you like.


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## Chronochromie

I've only listened #94 and other one I can't remember. I will listen them all now, I've treated poor Haydn poorly.


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## hpowders

Der Leiermann said:


> I've only listened #94 and other one I can't remember. I will listen them all now, I've treated poor Haydn poorly.


 94 is a good place to start. Other top notch London Symphonies are #97, 98, 100, 102 and 104.

Hope you get to hear them.

Mozart and Haydn were both great and I need both of them. Mozart for the string quintets, operas and piano concertos and Haydn for the Paris and London Symphonies and The Creation.


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## trazom

hpowders said:


> I'm with you. I find symphony #40 annoying. As for #41, I can think of 12 Haydn symphonies I prefer to it.
> 
> Mozart wrote great music. I find it in the piano concertos, the operas, concert arias and string quintets. Not here.


Yes, Mozart wrote great music, and the last symphonies are great. The 40th (and 39th, though in a different way) heavily foreshadows key techniques of romanticism, and the 41st is a synthesis of classical's formalism and the contrapuntal techniques popular in the Baroque and Renaissance. They synthesized everything Mozart had learned from his operatic and orchestral experiments and diligent study of the past masters. I pity anyone that can't hear their genius.


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## Fugue Meister

Wow I made the results precisely 50/50 with my vote for 41. 

However I agree with trazom that 38 is the best.


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## sdtom

41 is a masterpiece. What is there to not like about it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

41, nothing by Mozart has beaten the 4th, 2nd, 3rd bad 1st movements of this symphony. Jacobs does the best recording


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

MacLeod said:


> I have two versions of #41, one whose 4th movement lasts around 6 minutes (Marriner/St Martin in the Fields) and the other whose 4th lasts around 11 minutes (Abbado/Orchestra Mozart)...what's going on??


One omits the repeats, one doesn't. Reason why people might have omitted repeats was possibly so it could fit onto one side of an LP....the symphony as a whole should actually last around 36 to 38 minutes.


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## KenOC

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> One omits the repeats, one doesn't. Reason why people might have omitted repeats was possibly so it could fit onto one side of an LP....the symphony as a whole should actually last around 36 to 38 minutes.


This was a major consideration. One side of an LP could fit 25 minutes fairly easily. More in a pinch, but at significant cost in inner-groove distortion. And since those pesky classical composers tended to put the loudest parts at the end, the results weren't pretty.


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## Antiquarian

I chose K551 but it was a pretty close decision to do so; it was a toss up between the two. Personally I like the "Haffner" Symphony #35 more than the two choices given, and I have to concur with many of the other responses here in prefering Haydn's London Symphonies. (Particularly if they are performed by the Concertgebouw Orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davis-- his Philips set is one that I consider "indispensable")


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## nightscape

41 for me. Perfect from beginning to end.


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## michael5150

Both 40 and 41 are uneven. 40 deteriorates after the second movement. 41 is even more uneven. You might aswell save the final movement and discard the rest

There is great merit in mozarts very first symphony. He did not equal it for another dozen or maybe more symphonies


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## PeterF

Some years ago I would have selected 41, but over time I have grown to appreciate 40 a bit more.
Both are great symphonies.


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## EDaddy

Wow. neck and neck poll... 67% and 68% with Jupiter at a sliver of a lead. I was born in '67 so how fitting as I voted for 40.

They're both Mount Olympus symphonic works ... so very difficult to choose between the two. For me I guess it's 40, but only by a narrow margin. I prefer the main theme of the opening movement in 40 to 41 among other things, but the Andante cantabile of the Jupiter is a work of sublime perfection...


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## aeschylus

G minor is the private Mozart in a state of turbulence. C major Mozart is the public, extrovert one, with trumpets and drums and that outdoor panoramic sweep.

It strikes me as remarkable that composers who struggle with poverty/illness/grief so often manage to write joyful, major-key music. The G minor symphony 40 links with the 20th and 24th piano concerti and the Requiem; I suppose it's no surprise that all those piano concerti for subscription concerts are so bright and airy. But what about number 23 with its minor key slow movement?

Maybe there's a parallel with Brahms' last two symphonies? The brooding third, and then the fourth transformed by its Bachian passacaglia finale.

40 and 41 are like chalk and cheese. Maybe the more interesting question is what kind of symphony would Mozart have written next??


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## SARDiver

41 for me. I just like Jupiter a bit more.


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