# Haiku for Piano



## Mahlerian

I've been wondering about whether I should post this here for a little while for a few reasons. First, I felt it needed some context to be more accessible and seem less "abstract". Second, it really loses a lot without the full resonance of a real piano. I will not be providing a link to the score this time.

Two of my inspirations for this brief piece were the sound of the traditional "In" (een) scale, famous for its use in the traditional song Sakura Sakura:





And also Takemitsu's aesthetic of alternating meditative with violent episodes, as here (particularly in reference to the first movement):





That said, the piece is not pentatonic, but chromatic, and I didn't use quite the same range of harmonies as Takemitsu (who was inspired in the above by Messiaen).

View attachment Haiku Revision.mp3


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## Matsps

I think the range of harmonies is really important and you should strive to use them (thanks for introducing me to Takemitsu - Litany btw, something I would not have normally listened to). 

So yeah I thought the piece of music was not exciting enough harmonically and not pianistic enough for the piece to sound good on a piano.


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## Ingélou

Maybe because I am fairly used to (traditional) oriental music, I liked this. Of course it's a haiku so meant to be short and oblique & evocative - all of which it is - but hey, I'd have liked more of it...


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## Aramis

The dissonant sforzato harmonies you use remind me of Japanese music for koto (or biwa) where such parts are done in a manner resembling Bartók pizzicato. I agree with above comment that it won't sound any good on piano. Or maybe it could, if you would have it played directly on strings inside, without using the keys.


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## Mahlerian

Aramis said:


> The dissonant sforzato harmonies you use remind me of Japanese music for koto (or biwa) where such parts are done in a manner resembling Bartók pizzicato. I agree with above comment that it won't sound any good on piano. Or maybe it could, if you would have it played directly on strings inside, without using the keys.


Actually, the particular resonance of the piano is intended there, because the sforzandi resonate with the held notes in the left hand, all of which is lost in MIDI playback.


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## aleazk

I know the sforzandi are the main idea of this piece, but, paradoxically, I think the piece would work better if those chords are highlighted not through sforzandi, but precisely using the opposite technique!, i.e., by playing them softer than the other notes. At least some of the chords. Mainly because of two things: one, in some parts, the sforzando device simply does not work; second, it becomes repetitive and predictable after the second time you use it. I would play the chords of the beginning softer, and then increase the intensity at the middle of the piece, for then reducing it again after this.

I think the piece can work if played with abundant sustain pedal and very delicate touch, the piece sounding like a passing breeze.

The comment about the lack of harmonic diversity is true, but not necessarily a problem. If you want this to be a single, self contained piece, then it's a problem, because there's simply not enough "meat" for the listener. On the other hand, if played like one "episode" of some kind of suite containing other, also short and simple, contrasting episodes, then it can work.


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## Mahlerian

aleazk said:


> I know the sforzandi are the main idea of this piece, but, paradoxically, I think the piece would work better if those chords are highlighted not through sforzandi, but precisely using the opposite technique!, i.e., by playing them softer than the other notes. At least some of the chords. Mainly because of two things: one, in some parts, the sforzando device simply does not work; second, it becomes repetitive and predictable after the second time you use it. I would play the chords of the beginning softer, and then increase the intensity at the middle of the piece, for then reducing it again after this.


Some of the things you're hearing as szforzandos weren't intended as such, I'm sure. In parts, it's a problem with the MIDI realization. I've made a few changes that I feel make more clear what I wanted originally anyway, and added pedal sparingly.

Your comment on a light touch is apt. When I've played this for myself, I try to play as lightly as possible, save for the chords at the very beginning and the one in the center. Computers are not known for their lightness of touch, though...


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## aleazk

Mahlerian said:


> Some of the things you're hearing as szforzandos weren't intended as such, I'm sure. In parts, it's a problem with the MIDI realization. I've made a few changes that I feel make more clear what I wanted originally anyway, and added pedal sparingly.


Sounds better now, note the difference in the flow of the piece because of those nuances you added to the dynamic; for example, the sudden soft arpeggiated chord at 0:30 is unexpected and makes the piece more interesting. Also, the increase at the middle gives the piece a sense of direction. I'm still not very sure about the first two chords, they are too loud and hysterical. I know that you are looking for contrast, but here is not working. The reason is subtle. The problem is in the general character of your piece: it's too quiet and peaceful. In this way, yes, the loud chords make a big contrast, but also they sound very out of place. The idea can work if the general character of the piece is already with tension, with a dense mood. This has a lot of tension already from the beginning, and that makes that loud part at 0:28 a very effective thing. May be a question of personal taste, but I don't like very much those kind of deliberate contrasts, i.e., when they are added somewhat artificially and not as a consequence of the flow of the piece. It's possible to make very contrasting sections and at the same maintain the character of the piece, I prefer that sense of cohesion. An example is the Takemitsu piece I linked.

Also, have you considered the vibraphone instead of the piano?.


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## Mahlerian

aleazk said:


> Sounds better now, note the difference in the flow of the piece because of those nuances you added to the dynamic; for example, the sudden soft arpeggiated chord at 0:30 is unexpected and makes the piece more interesting. Also, the increase at the middle gives the piece a sense of direction. I'm still not very sure about the first two chords, they are too loud and hysterical. I know that you are looking for contrast, but here is not working. The reason is subtle. The problem is in the general character of your piece: it's too quiet and peaceful. In this way, yes, the loud chords make a big contrast, but also they sound very out of place.


The idea is that those two chords are an amplification of what we've heard already, and I think this is more clear if they're played with a sharp but rapid attack with the other notes held down. As I said above, this produces sympathetic resonance between the G-A already held down and the sevenths A-G played quickly, which is not heard on a MIDI reproduction.

In the third section (the form is more or less ABA'), the chords instead turn inwards, and as such are contracting rather than expanding. Or that was the idea, at least...


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## BurningDesire

I really like this piece Mahlerian  It sorta makes me think of Prokofiev, but filtered through Cage cerca the 1940s. I think aleazk has a really good idea, of having it be for vibes, especially with the motor on. Perhaps it can be a piece for either or, cause I think it sounds fine on the piano as is, but that whirling tone of the vibraphone (or even a fender rhodes piano with vibrato) would add to the strong atmospheric leanings of the piece. As is, I think it is beautiful


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## aleazk

Mahlerian said:


> The idea is that those two chords are an amplification of what we've heard already, and I think this is more clear if they're played with a sharp but rapid attack with the other notes held down. As I said above, this produces sympathetic resonance between the G-A already held down and the sevenths A-G played quickly, which is not heard on a MIDI reproduction.
> 
> In the third section (the form is more or less ABA'), the chords instead turn inwards, and as such are contracting rather than expanding. Or that was the idea, at least...


Well, that's not exactly what I was talking about; but, anyway, as I said, it's more or less taste-related, so nevermind.

Yes, BD, I was thinking in a vibraphone with the motor on precisely.

I have a sound library with good vibraphone samples, Mahlerian. Send me the score if you are interested (as a Sibelius file) and I could make a render of the piece. It will be fun to try. I can try also for piano.


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## aleazk

So, here are my renders:

-Piano:
View attachment Haiku.mp3


-Vibes:
View attachment Haiku (vibes).mp3


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## Mahlerian

Thank you so much! It sounds great.

The vibraphone does work out a lot better than I'd thought it would, and it didn't end up requiring much arrangement, either. (Sorry about the notation on bar 5, but MuseScore doesn't arpeggiate chords correctly unless you put all of the notes on the same staff.)


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## brotagonist

I missed the première yesterday, but I just heard it. The Tamemitsu influence is immediately apparent. Very nice!


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## aleazk

Mahlerian said:


> Thank you so much! It sounds great.
> 
> The vibraphone does work out a lot better than I'd thought it would, and it didn't end up requiring much arrangement, either. (Sorry about the notation on bar 5, but MuseScore doesn't arpeggiate chords correctly unless you put all of the notes on the same staff.)


Indeed, sounds great. I'm a little surprised too. Now I can appreciate some of the gestural nuances. The piece works simply because you actually wrote those nuances . There's no magic, they simply needed to be heard more clearly. That's what motivated my suggestion. The piano sounds good too. In fact, those chords I was talking about sound better now.


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## PetrB

The very tonal sounding 'cadence' at 0'38'' - 0'40'' is so out of place it is neither funny or jarring in a positive way: it sounds like a stumble only, or like a long dead relative of a sudden showed up at the party. 

It isn't uncommon for those making forays into this sort of vocab or serial music to 'find' this sort of display and, being bemused it is there, to leave it in. I would not recommend doing any such trick or schtick until you are very fluid in the vocabulary, and can then, if you want, place something like that wherever you like, and to whatever effect is intended.

I thought the rest went pretty well


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## Mahlerian

PetrB said:


> The very tonal sounding 'cadence' at 0'38'' - 0'40'' is so out of place it is neither funny or jarring in a positive way: it sounds like a stumble only, or like a long dead relative of a sudden showed up at the party.


I suppose that any appearance of a tritone resolving into a sixth or a 6/4 inversion triad does tend to set the mind off looking for tonal resolution...


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## PetrB

Mahlerian said:


> I suppose that any appearance of a tritone resolving into a sixth or a 6/4 inversion triad does tend to set the mind off looking for tonal resolution...


You can have fourths and fifths, and tertian triads of any sort in a freely tonal or atonal piece, but the assiduous avoidance of any and all which _sound to function_ as I - V / IV - I, either horizontally or vertically, is a fundamental must.


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## SergeOfArniVillage

This threads shows the kind of thing I like to see on a forum: helpful, practical suggestions to help a musician out!

Great call on the vibraphone, it does, in my opinion, work better than a piano for this kind of "meditation music." A piano is a veritable orchestra at the fingertips, and it seems a little underwhelming to use it in this way, which is probably why you were hesitant about uploading it in the first place. Even minimalist piano music explores the extreme registers sometimes, along with dynamics.

The vibraphone is a more specialized instrument, and its timbre is already somewhat like a mini-gong (or more assertive chimes, take your pick), which seems to fit the piece better. 

I learned a lot listening to this and reading this thread ^_^ Thanks a lot for that!


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