# Dream casts / "If only you could pick and mix the best bits"



## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Dream casts

Do you ever imagine when listening to records, "if only you could join those recordings together it would be brilliant"? I think the most tantalising examples are when recordings were made within a few years and combined they'd be terrific.

For instance, I wish that the _Aida_ records from 1955 could be combined = Callas, Bjorling, Barbieri, Gobbi and Christoff.

How about _Lohengrin_ with Konya off the Leinsdorf set + Grummer, Fischer-Dieskau and Ludwig off the Kempe...

If we had a time machine you might merge the Schippers and Gardelli _Macbeths_ to have Nilsson, Taddei, Pavarotti and Ghiaurov 

Finally I thought how Corelli and de los Angeles are arguably not a great match in _Cavalleria_. However, swap the tenor with the Erede set and you'd have a scorching Corelli/Tebaldi/Bastianini and the mellow and better matched Bjorling/de Los Angeles/Sereni... I wonder how that would sound?

Any examples where you wish singers could swap and tantalise the imagination?

Cheers 
David


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Especially when a number of sets of the same opera were made by the same label.

Butterfly by EMI in 54 with De los Angeles, Di Stefano and Gobbi feels like it should have had Callas in with De los Angeles appearing with Gedda and Boriello in 55. 

I agree about the Corelli Cav/Pag, but I would take Amara out of the Pag and replace with De los Angeles and put Gobbi in the Cav (his Decca outing of the role came a bit too late). Imagine a Corelli, De los Angeles, Gobbi Cav/Pag! (However, it is worth noting that I agree that De los Angeles isn't really a Santuzza and Callas may have been a better choice.)

Callas was due to record Mefistofele for Cetra, but then she moved to EMI. Otherwise she may have ended up on the 1956 Cetra recording instead of Marcella Pobbe (who fortunately isn't to be sniffed at).

Every Cetra verismo opera recording of the fifties should have had Magda Olivero in, what was wrong with them?

N.

P.S. I would have like Corelli and De los Angeles to have been in the Callas Turandot (although Corelli may not have been with EMI at that point).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The most obvious to me would be to replace Stella with Callas in the 1955 La Scala Traviata. If only Legge had tried to get an agreement with Cetra, who stipulated she couldn’t make another recording of the opera for 5 years after she recorded of it for them, or even just waited until she was free, what a Traviata we might have had.

As for Macbeth, I might be cheating a bit, but what I wouldn’t give for a recording of Macbeth with Callas and Gobbi as the murderous pair, Di Stefano as MacDuff and Zacharia as Banguo. Given his 1956 Trovatore, Karajan might just have been the conductor for the job.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Olivero as Leonora/Shicoff as Manrico/Hvorostovsky as Count di Luna/Verrett as Azucena (Il trovatore)
Olivero as Tosca/Shicoff as Cavaradossi/Gobbi as Scarpia (Tosca)
Olivero as Butterfly/Shicoff as Pinkerton/Simionato as Suzuki (Madama Butterfly)
Olivero as Minnie/Corelli as Mr. Johnson/Warren as Rance (La Fanciulla del West)
Olivero as Tatiana/Bastianini as Eugene Onegin/Shicoff as Lensky (Eugene Onegin)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

As much as I respect the aging Wolfgang Windgassen's ability to make me overlook his leathery, non-heldentenor vocal tone through sheer artistry, I'd like to replace him with Jon Vickers in the 1966 Bayreuth _Tristan_ under Bohm. Vickers and Nilsson were both in their fabulous primes in that year, and with the best all-around cast on recordings including Ludwig, Wachter and Talvela, the pairing of their heroic voices would have made the recording even more of a classic than it is.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The most obvious to me would be to replace Stella with Callas in the 1955 La Scala Traviata. If only Legge had tried to get an agreement with Cetra, who stipulated she couldn't make another recording of the opera for 5 years, or even just waited until she was free, what a Traviata we might ha e had.
> 
> As for Macbeth, I might be cheating a bit, but what I wouldn't give for a recording of Macbeth with Callas and Gobbi as the murderous pair, Di Stefano as MacDuff and Zacharia as Banguo. Given his 1956 Trovatore, Karajan might just have been the conductor for the job.


I was going to say replace Stella with Callas in all her recordings! (And I think you have chosen the most necessary replacement casting with that Traviata, I fear it was a great waste of Gobbi and Di Stefano.)

I love your dream Macbeth cast, I would be happy just to have Gobbi in the live La Scala performance.

N.


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

Bohm 62 Cosi-

Callas as Fiordiligi
Simoneau as Ferrando

IMO Cosi is one of the most under appreciated works of Mozart- he truly wrote it ”con amore”. Callas should have sang Fiordiligi- and I’m not a big Callas fan. The role just seems perfect for her.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

The Serafin Otello with Vickers/Gobbi/Rysanek should have had a better Desdemona, like Tebaldi (well, she was DECCA's prima donna), Zeani or a young Scotto. Come on, EMI!


Bohm's first studio Die Frau ohne Schatten with Rysanek/Hopf/Goltz/Schoeffler/Hongen would be perfect for me if Eleanor Steber was the Empress. I have no qualms with Rysanek, but there is a live recording of an abridged, concert performance of Die Frau conducted by Bohm with pretty much the same cast. Steber soars at ease on the busy orchestra with her gorgoues voice and she nails all of the most difficult pasages.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I'd take the 1984 Met Don Carlo, kick Quilico out and put Sherrill Milnes in. There, perfection.

Also, for the Salzburg 2013 Don Carlo, I'd have Salminen do the Grand Inquisitor instead and Furlanetto or Pape do Filippo. 

I'd also love to combine the fantastic ensemble of the old ROH Grimes and the perfection of Philip Langridge from the ENO production. No Wagner tenor should ever touch that role.

As for Rings, I'd kick Hübner out of the Chéreau Ring and make Salminen sing Hagen too. 

Switch Behrens to literally anyone else in the Met Ring. Kick that mediocre Siegmund out (I don't even remember his name) and let Jerusalem do that too.

Obviously, force Domingo to never sing baritone roles so we could have Ruciński replace him in both the Salzburg and the Berlin Trovatores. Salzburg also needs a decent tenor instead of Meli but finding a god Manrico seems near impossible these days. 

Kick Vargas out of the Leaf Magic Onegin and bring in Breslik or Castronovo. Also Furlanetto for Gremin just to be luxurious.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> The Serafin Otello with Vickers/Gobbi/Rysanek should have had a better Desdemona, like Tebaldi (well, she was DECCA's prima donna), Zeani or a young Scotto. Come on, EMI!


That would be one of mine too. If only Desdemona had been Tebaldi. It might have been a bit early for Scotto, who would still have been singing roles like Gilda at that time. How about Victoria De Los Angeles, who was a lovely Desdemona at the Met in 1958?

Incidentally what had EMI to do with it? The Vickers/Gobbi/Rysanek *Otello* was RCA.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I was going to say replace Stella with Callas in all her recordings! (And I think you have chosen the most necessary replacement casting with that Traviata, I fear it was a great waste of Gobbi and Di Stefano.)
> 
> N.


The 1954 *Don Carlo*. Gobbi and Christoff are completely wasted on that recording and are actually the only elements I'd keep. Looking at the singers in EMI's stable, you could re-cast it with Di Stefano as Don Carlo, Callas as Elisabetta, Barbieri as Eboli and give it a proper conductor, like Karajan or even Serafin. That would have been a *Don Carlo* to reckon with.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Music Snob said:


> Bohm 62 Cosi-
> 
> Callas as Fiordiligi
> Simoneau as Ferrando
> ...


I might wish that Callas had also sung Donna Anna in the early 50s, or got to record Constanze - or at least there had been a recording of her singing the role at La Scala in 1952.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> That would be one of mine too. If only Desdemona had been Tebaldi. It might have been a bit early for Scotto, who would still have been singing roles like Gilda at that time. How about Victoria De Los Angeles, who was a lovely Desdemona at the Met in 1958?
> 
> Incidentally what had EMI to do with it? The Vickers/Gobbi/Rysanek *Otello* was RCA.


This is interesting because I have always liked Rysanek's Desdemona, but De los Angeles replacing her would improve the recording.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The 1954 *Don Carlo*. Gobbi and Christoff are completely wasted on that recording and are actually the only elements I'd keep. Looking at the singers in EMI's stable, you could re-cast it with Di Stefano as Don Carlo, Callas as Elisabetta, Barbieri as Eboli and give it a proper conductor, like Karajan or even Serafin. That would have been a *Don Carlo* to reckon with.


You and I should have been in charge of EMI in the 50s and 60s!

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> You and I should have been in charge of EMI in the 50s and 60s!
> 
> N.


We tend to forget that back then Callas and Schwarzkopf recorded for Columbia in the UK, Angel in the USA and De Los Angeles for His Master's Voice, though I think they were all under the umbrella of EMI. Wasn't RCA under that umbrella for a short period too? I seem to remember the Beecham *La Boheme* was on RCA at one time.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

The Conte said:


> You and I should have been in charge of EMI in the 50s and 60s!
> 
> N.


Now in hindsight it is amazing how much talent they had back then and how much of it was wasted. This thread is a good example of what they could have achieved back then. Not to mention Legge with stereo sound. It's just beggars belief how many dream cast recordings could have been achieved.

For me some of these would be:

Callas, Di Stefano and Gobbi Madama Butterfly and the same with La Traviata

Callas La Forza, Corelli or Di Stefano with Gobbi

Callas Aida Corelli

Callas Turandot Corelli or Di Stefano

I have to say the Don Carlo with Callas & co sounded pretty good. I would have liked to have seen an earlier recording of Carmen with Callas and Di Stefano instead of Gedda. Di Stefano could have also been in the Il Barbiere. There are a few live recordings of him and he is pretty good.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't know enough about voice types to pick singers for any opera, so my dream cast would be such that the dream includes change in vocal characteristics. :lol:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Diminuendo said:


> Now in hindsight it is amazing how much talent they had back then and how much of it was wasted. This thread is a good example of what they could have achieved back then. Not to mention Legge with stereo sound. It's just beggars belief how many dream cast recordings could have been achieved.
> 
> For me some of these would be:
> 
> ...


Corelli in Aida and Forza definitely.

All in all, though, I'm happy with Gedda in Carmen, if only because of his excellent French and with Alva in Barbiere, who has a lighter voice, much more in the Rossinian style and plays beautifully off both Callas and Gobbi.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I actually am very fond of Fleming in her prime's recording of Armida BUT if by magic you could time warp Callas from 52 into the 21st century recording booth... well I might just drive off the road listening to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine?


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Corelli in Aida and Forza definitely.
> 
> All in all, though, I'm happy with Gedda in Carmen, if only because of his excellent French and with Alva in Barbiere, who has a lighter voice, much more in the Rossinian style and plays beautifully off both Callas and Gobbi.


I like Alva too and he is great. I'm maybe a bit biased on Di Stefano. Gedda is excellent in so many languages, but Di Stefano does "ok" in French.

Manon





Manon






Carmen


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Corelli in Aida and Forza definitely.
> 
> All in all, though, I'm happy with Gedda in Carmen, if only because of his excellent French and with Alva in Barbiere, who has a lighter voice, much more in the Rossinian style and plays beautifully off both Callas and Gobbi.


In fact I listened to the Barbiere the other day and just continue to be amazed of how amazing the recording is. It's really one of my favorite recordings of Callas. The opera is just so great and just the change from the live performance to this is amazing. When listening to the duet between Rosina and Figaro I was just blown away again. It's just amazing what two great singing actors can do.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I actually am very fond of Fleming in her prime's recording of Armida BUT if by magic you could time warp Callas from 52 into the 21st century recording booth... well I might just drive off the road listening to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine?


Ah yes, I believe you are taking Callas before her massive weigh loss that hurt her voice. I like your idea.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I don't know enough about voice types to pick singers for any opera, so my dream cast would be such that the dream includes change in vocal characteristics. :lol:


Guess I should take a stab at this anyway. Will need a time machine as I want them at story appropriate ages.

La Sonnambula (I know, this is going to be stupid and probably would be a failure, so someone can help fix it if they so desire)

Rolando Villazon as Elvino
Beverly Sills as Amina
Dmitri Hvorostovsky as Count Rodolfo
Anna Netrebko as Lisa
Vessilina Kasarova as Teresa
Jonas Kaufmann as Alessio


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Guess I should take a stab at this anyway. Will need a time machine as I want them at story appropriate ages.
> 
> La Sonnambula (I know, this is going to be stupid and probably would be a failure, so someone can help fix it if they so desire)
> 
> ...


I think your cast more properly belongs in this thread, Fritz It's your DREAM NIGHT at the opera, so..............................

This one is more about recordings that could have happened.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I think your cast more properly belongs in this thread, Fritz It's your DREAM NIGHT at the opera, so..............................
> 
> This one is more about recordings that could have happened.


Thanks, reposted it over there with a different Amina.


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