# Understanding Renaissance Music



## Lindenbaum (Jun 8, 2017)

I've been getting into renaissance and late medieval music lately and loving every moment, but I have trouble understanding the pieces the way I understand classical/romantic/baroque stuff.

Partly I think this is because I would always try to understand first of all the form of a piece and what the composer is doing with the form type. But renaissance music is mostly through-composed, so that method doesn't work so well.

Any tips or tricks for upgrading my ability to understand this awesome repertoire? What should I be listening for?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The way I approach Medieval Renaissance music is, it is melody-based, so it is linear. You are listening for the interaction between voices and combining of voices into colors more than the traditional post-1700 way of listening to music driven by chord progressions. Also, especially with Medieval pieces, the structure will be time-based or proportional, so the structure will be, like, 3:2:1.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Lindenbaum said:


> I've been getting into renaissance and late medieval music lately and loving every moment, but I have trouble understanding the pieces the way I understand classical/romantic/baroque stuff.
> 
> Partly I think this is because I would always try to understand first of all the form of a piece and what the composer is doing with the form type. But renaissance music is mostly through-composed, so that method doesn't work so well.
> 
> Any tips or tricks for upgrading my ability to understand this awesome repertoire? What should I be listening for?


What are you listening to, I mean, which pieces?


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

here there is a member "deprofundis" who has perhaps the most comprehensive experience about renaissance music than the rest of us. well, others are knowledgeable about this music too, but I think he is one of the most enthusiastic one at the moment on this forum.
maybe you can search some of his posts to get an idea how he listens and what. I think it might be helpful for you.
It's just my opinion.


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## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Hello Lindenbaum, you might be interested in a thread I created a while ago:
http://www.talkclassical.com/43253-recordings-medieval-music-what.html?highlight=
It's focus is maybe a bit different, but some information TC members have provided may be relevant to your question. So I hope this helps


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## Lindenbaum (Jun 8, 2017)

@Mandryka I have listened to quite a range of things, from Machaut, Landini, and the ars subtilior folks, through Dufay, Okeghem, Josquin, Taverner, Tallis, Byrd, Victoria, Lassus, Marenzio, Monteverdi, etc. (Most of the big late renaissance guys)

@Myriadi, that was quite a helpful post, thanks!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Lindenbaum said:


> @Mandryka I have listened to quite a range of things, from Machaut, Landini, and the ars subtilior folks, through Dufay, Okeghem, Josquin, Taverner, Tallis, Byrd, Victoria, Lassus, Marenzio, Monteverdi, etc. (Most of the big late renaissance guys)
> 
> @Myriadi, that was quite a helpful post, thanks!


Just thinking specifically of the Machaut mass, and your question about form, this came up recently in Bjorn Schmelzer's booklet essay for his recording of the music, with Graindelavoix. There was a lot of online discussion earlier this year, Schmelzer joined in using someone's blog as a platform, PM me if you can't find it.

I believe that the formal aspects of early music are really very bound up with numerology, I've never explored it but a friend tells me that _The Josquin Companion_ is very good on this.

I'll just mention that this week I've been listening to Metamorphoses Biscantor's recording of Josquin's Missa Pange Lingue and Beauty Farm's recording of Ockghem's Missa Quinti Toni, both very stimulating recordings, the latter raising all sorts of questions about the how much this music should flow, how dissonant it should be, how individual the voices should be.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

One of the challenges (and joys) of Renaissance motets is that there is often a meticulously calculated structure that is all but imperceptible through casual listening. In motets by Dufay, for example, the exact number of notes in one voice or another, recurring pitch patterns and rhythmic values, choices of meter, etc. are governed by strict numerical patterns, with the patterns themselves symbolizing very specific references to Christian theology. His motet _Nuper rosarum flores_ is probably the most well-known example: it was written for the consecration of the Cathedral of Saint Mary of the Flower in Florence, so appropriately the tenor melodies are based on the Gregorian chant _Terribilis est locus site_, which for centuries was itself sung on the occasion of consecrations of churches. Moreover, the number of notes in the motet's isorhythmic patterns, as well as the four meter changes, have been shown to be numerical references to the Biblical passage 1 Kings 6, whose text is about-you guessed it-the building of a temple (the Temple of Solomon).

Anyway, if you have access to scores and are keen on this level of analysis, then this is a fun (if laborious) way to study structure in Renaissance music.

A much less analytical strategy would be to familiarize yourself with as much canonical Gregorian chant as you can, because so much Renaissance sacred music is based on these chants. (The practice goes by several names but is usually referred to as the cantus firmus technique.) To take the most famous examples from the "greatest hits" of Renaissance music: all of the voices in Josquin's _Pange lingua_ Mass are based on the 13th century hymn of the same name, _Pange lingua_; several composers, including Josquin and Dufay, wrote masses based on the 14th century song _L'homme armé_; Ockeghem's _Caput_ Mass is taken from a small segment of the plainchant _Venit ad Petrum_; and so on. In other words, familiarizing yourself with the Medieval hymns that resurface in Renaissance polyphony is a good way to get a handle on the "logic" behind the music.

EDIT: I see that Mandryka beat me to many of my punchlines!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

For Ars Nova music and secular chanson you should understand the formes fixes (rondeau, ballade and virelai) which are the standard song forms used by Machaut, Dufay, Binchois, the Ars Subtilior composers, etc.

Many Renaissance motets fall into a few consistent patterns, I seem to remember, but don't remember details off hand. I think a two part form along the lines of ABAC was pretty common for example.


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