# Bach Cantatas



## Der Titan

Some months ago I bought the complete Bach cantatas with Rilling, it was a very good offer, so I bought it. I heard the first 7 CDs but then my exploration stopped. My experience is that you have some wonderfull music in these cantatas, really the "best Bach" but on the other hand and more so very boring cantatas as well, and even worse, some cantatas have fascinating pieces and boring pieces as well, which is not astonishing. And these are 69 CDs, I will never listen to all that in my life. But is there anybody out there who would give me a good advice which cantatas I should listen to? The sad fact is that you have wonderfull music in these cantatas, but most people will not know it because it's somewhere in the cantatas. 

Rilling isn't bad, but I have also 5 CDs with Rotzsch, which I like alot, for example the easter cantatas, and then I have 7 CDs Leusink ( I have even 10 CDs more Leusink I never heard). I don't know wether the Leusink is that bad as some people say, but I defintely don't like the countertenor, the voice isn't beautifull at all, it's shrill and ugly.


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## Taplow

My favourite Bach cantata is the BWV 170, "Vernügte Ruh". My favourite recording, the Philippe Herreweghe with Andrea Scholl on Harmonia Mundi. Definitely a desert island disc.

I have a complete set of the (earlier) Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cantatas. I bought them second hand at a silly price, partly because of the scarcity of the set, but partly also because back then Harnoncourt insisted on using exclusively male voices. While some of them are very nice, they remain mostly curiosities. Like you and the Rilling, I shall most likely never hear them all.


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## SiegendesLicht

I have not heard all of them either, but here are some of my favorites: 

Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern BWV1
Ich habe genug BWV 1 (my favorite one of all!)
Der Friede sei mit dir BWV 158
Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme BWV 140

I would encourage you though, to try and listen to each one of them at least once. There are surely more gems waiting to be discovered. I have undertaken such a listening project a few times, but have not carried it to completion as yet. The collection I own is one by Karl Richter and Münchener Bach-Orchester (and it is not complete), but I am planning to obtain the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt one too. The voices in the latter one are lovely.

OP, it's nice to see you posting again


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## hpowders

Der Titan said:


> Some months ago I bought the complete Bach cantatas with Rilling, it was a very good offer, so I bought it. I heard the first 7 CDs but then my exploration stopped. My experience is that you have some wonderfull music in these cantatas, really the "best Bach" but on the other hand and more so very boring cantatas as well, and even worse, some cantatas have fascinating pieces and boring pieces as well, which is not astonishing. And these are 69 CDs, I will never listen to all that in my life. But is there anybody out there who would give me a good advice which cantatas I should listen to? The sad fact is that you have wonderfull music in these cantatas, but most people will not know it because it's somewhere in the cantatas.
> 
> Rilling isn't bad, but I have also 5 CDs with Rotzsch, which I like alot, for example the easter cantatas, and then I have 7 CDs Leusink ( I have even 10 CDs more Leusink I never heard). I don't know wether the Leusink is that bad as some people say, but I defintely don't like the countertenor, the voice isn't beautifull at all, it's shrill and ugly.


That has been my experience too.

Have you explored the Bach solo instrumental music? Much higher quality overall:

The Keyboard Partitas, Goldberg Variations, Solo Cello Suites, Unaccompannied Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin.

Bach at his most inspired.


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## Bulldog

Der Titan said:


> Some months ago I bought the complete Bach cantatas with Rilling, it was a very good offer, so I bought it. I heard the first 7 CDs but then my exploration stopped. My experience is that you have some wonderfull music in these cantatas, really the "best Bach" but on the other hand and more so very boring cantatas as well, and even worse, some cantatas have fascinating pieces and boring pieces as well, which is not astonishing. And these are 69 CDs, I will never listen to all that in my life. But is there anybody out there who would give me a good advice which cantatas I should listen to?


I think it's best to start with the most popular cantatas - can't go wrong. Sales sites such as ArkivMusic report the number of recordings for each cantata and is a good place to start.


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## haydnfan

SiegendesLicht said:


> I have not heard all of them either, but here are some of my favorites:
> 
> Ich habe genug BWV 1 (my favorite one of all!)


That's my favorite as well but the bwv # is 82.


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## haydnfan

Der Titan said:


> Some months ago I bought the complete Bach cantatas with Rilling,


I find the performances in that set highly uneven, which I think is part of it. The other part of it is yeah it's not consistent in quality like Haydn's string quartets. I enjoy them all but not equally. A good guide to the cantatas can be found here where they are subjectively ranked:

http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/bachjs/rateindx.php

It's not definitive since it's just personal taste but the 1* list is a great place to start.

Please don't get discouraged, there is alot of amazing music in your box that will deeply move you. And as you listen to those you might find yourself more interested in lesser cantatas as well.

If you took Hpowders advise and ignored your box set in favor of only listening to solo keyboard music you would be missing out on some of the finest sacred works of the baroque era.


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## SiegendesLicht

haydnfan said:


> That's my favorite as well but the bwv # is 82.


Of course! That is just about the only BWV I have memorized, and the above was a typo.


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## Marc

Funny, I consider the cantatas (and other vocal music) as Bach's Zenith... even the 'lesser' cantatas are still very good. In my ears that is, of course.

The least interesting is probably BWV 143.
The list of 'very good' is endless IMHO, but check out at least these church cantatas (in random order): BWV 4, 106, 21, 54, 161, 12, 23, 36, 104, 105, 56, 82, 8, 78, 140, 147, 11, 125, 39, 6, 80, 51, 84, 199, 58.
And these secular cantatas: BWV 198 (must listen!), 202, 208, 211, 213.

Have fun!


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## Marc

I might add that part of the 'problem' could be the Rilling performances... at least, they're not among my favourites. In the last, say, 4 decades, many other conductors and musicians have delivered far more interesting stuff. 
But, again, that's personal, too.

Oh, and I just discovered that I'm a lazy reader.  I missed the classical.net list. That is, indeed, a very fine list, with apparantly some shared tastes.


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## jenspen

I've only listened carefully to half of the cantatas so far. Marc has mentioned enough to please anybody.

The four that Siegendes Licht mentioned are, IMO, absolute hits.

Here are more (though Marc has already recommended some of them):

BWV 4 Christ Lag in Todes Banden (dramatic in parts)
BWV 56 Ich will den Kreuztab gerne tragen (Fischer-Dieskau great on this bass cantata)
BWV 68 Also hat Gott die Welt geliebt (short and jolly)
BWV 80 Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott (stirring chorus)
BWV 93 Wer nur den lieben Gott lasst walten (includes a great tenor aria)
BWV 104 Du Hirte Israel (you won't be able to get the chorus out of your head)
BWV 131 Aus der Tiefe (melodious throughout)
BWV 147 Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben A long and lusciously melodious cantata (you recognise the final chorus)


Thanks for the opportunity to think about the cantatas. My favourite recordings (so far) have been by:

Suzuki and Bach Collegium Japan 
Harnoncourt and Leonhardt
Ton Koopman
Karl Richter

These interpreters have four different ways of treating the cantatas and I love them all (YouTube is you friend).


Oh, you want still more? OK:

BWV 12 Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen (for when you feel like lamenting)
BWV 18 Gleichwei der Regen und Schnee (for the beat)
BWV 26 Ach wei flüchtig, ach wie nichtig (a fun chorus)
BWV 172 Erschallet ihr Lieder (thrilling chorus and a couple of irresistable arias)


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## Flavius

There are some extended works by major composers that are 'canonical' (Monteverdi's 'Madrigals', Beethoven's 'Quartets'...), and Bach's 'Cantatas' are among these ultimate musical accomplishments. Monuments. My preferred versions are by Richter and the Munich Bach Choir & Orchestra, and the Suzuki Collegium Japan, which is complete. Let me suggest, as the cantatas are for Sundays and feast days of the Lutheran liturgical year, that the cantatas for each particular Sunday be listened to as they proceed through the year.


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## KenOC

Hi Flavius. Good to see you here! Haven't seen Edgar yet, but most of the other active members on Amazon have arrived.


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## Flavius

Hi, Ken. Glad to see you here, too. Hope Edgar joins us. This promises to be an enjoyable forum.


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## beetzart

I am working my way through all known Bach Cantatas and I think the throw away hypothesis 'Bach wrote some bad cantatas' will be never be proven. I am though very greedy and wish the 'lost' cantatas would show up in some Austrian University vault or a trunk in someone's attic in Leipzig maybe. 

The Bach Cantatas, Beethoven's String Quartets, Chopin's Nocturnes, Franck's Piano Trios, Bruckner's Symphonies, and Brahms' Concertos (to name but a few collections) are what makes my life that little bit more emotional and enjoyable!!!


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## classical yorkist

The cantatas are pretty intimidating in my opinion. I am another listener who would recommend listening weekly based on the religious strategy.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/LCY/index.htm


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## jegreenwood

classical yorkist said:


> The cantatas are pretty intimidating in my opinion. I am another listener who would recommend listening weekly based on the religious strategy.
> 
> http://www.bach-cantatas.com/LCY/index.htm


If One Voice Per Part is not anathema, you might want to look at this set of cantatas for the liturgical year.

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantata...7962150&sr=8-1&keywords=kuijken+bach+cantatas

I bought it with the intention of doing a close listening next year.


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## starthrower

jegreenwood said:


> If One Voice Per Part is not anathema, you might want to look at this set of cantatas for the liturgical year.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Cantata...7962150&sr=8-1&keywords=kuijken+bach+cantatas
> 
> I bought it with the intention of doing a close listening next year.


Just bought this box last week. Looking forward to getting into it.


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## Taplow

beetzart said:


> The Bach Cantatas, Beethoven's String Quartets, Chopin's Nocturnes, Franck's Piano Trios, Bruckner's Symphonies, and Brahms' Concertos (to name but a few collections) are what makes my life that little bit more emotional and enjoyable!!!


If your avatar is anything to go by, you seem like a generally grumpy fellow. But you have fine taste in music! I would add Haydn's Piano Trios to this list.


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## Manxfeeder

The Bach Cantatas website has been mentioned. Simon Crouch's survey of the cantatas has helped me. He gives each one, rates each one, and gives a description of what's going on.

http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst
/works/bachjs/cantatas.php


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## Manxfeeder

Der Titan said:


> I don't know wether the Leusink is that bad as some people say, but I defintely don't like the countertenor, the voice isn't beautifull at all, it's shrill and ugly.


I think the Leusink recordings sound like Bach's actual choir would have sounded in his day, warts and all, so technically they are probably the most "historically informed" recordings out there. The best of them have a go-for-broke feel, and the worst of them sound like they are grabbing for the brass ring and miss.

I've heard the countertenor described as sounding like he just came with a numbed mouth from the dentist. Fortunately, he gets replaced in the later recordings. Ruth Holton has also been criticized because she sounds expressionless, but from my understanding, she was instructed to sing in the manner of a boy to make it sound historically accurate.


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## Marc

Manxfeeder said:


> I think the Leusink recordings sound like Bach's actual choir would have sounded in his day, warts and all, so technically they are probably the most "historically informed" recordings out there.


:lol:

To me, that would be the worst excuse in the (musical) world.

"Yeah, we're bad, I know, but, you know, Bach's squad was pretty bad too, so, actually, we're very authentic and historically informed."

"Yeah, the conductor didn't have a clue and got it messed up, but, you know, Beethoven was deaf and messed things up in the 9th too, you know, so historically we're damn accurate."

Funny enough, when I was a member of a Dutch discussion board on a website that celebrated the Bach year 2000, there was a guy who actually defended the Leusink recordings for such 'scholastic' reasons. After a while, it turned out that he was a tenor in Leusink's choir.



Manxfeeder said:


> I've heard the countertenor described as sounding like he just came with a numbed mouth from the dentist. Fortunately, he gets replaced in the later recordings.


He doesn't. Countertenor Sytze Buwalda is there, from the beginning of the project until the end. One might not like his voice, we all have our favourites, but at least he seems to know what he's singing about. Which can't always be said from...



Manxfeeder said:


> Ruth Holton [...]


That's her.



Manxfeeder said:


> [...] has also been criticized because she sounds expressionless, but from my understanding, she was instructed to sing in the manner of a boy to make it sound historically accurate.


Most of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt's solo boy sopranos sing with more variety and understanding IMO. And I can't believe that a professional conductor would instruct a professional singer in that way. It becomes even more unbelievable because Marjon Strijk, who replaced Holton, sings with much more expression. Maybe less slick and ethereal, but at least she's able to give more meaning to the lyrics.

Of the soloists, to me the biggest let-down was Knut Schoch. I don't understand why he's screaming so much. Maybe because he was intructed to shout like a mature man?

All in all, I find Leusink's set a disappointment. Recording 200 cantatas in about 16 months, with a choir of (amateur) children... he should have said "no". But, as he has pointed out in several interviews, he's also very much a business man. And it was good business. His name and his choir became known all around the world. The label Brilliant Classics, too. Since 2000, the concerts of Leusink's ensemble are a certain 'full house' in his home country. And Brilliant Classics, after some hick ups, is now a regular and popular label in the classical music bizz. So, in the end, it turned out to be a very successful project.


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## Manxfeeder

Marc said:


> :lol:
> 
> To me, that would be the worst excuse in the (musical) world.
> 
> "Yeah, we're bad, I know, but, you know, Bach's squad was pretty bad too, so, actually, we're very authentic and historically informed."


I'm glad you got the joke. I have a Harnoncourt Bach oratorio recording where he gushes about compassing land and sea to use an authentic oboe d'amore for the right sound for this recording, but then he wouldn't bring himself to go the extra mile in authenticity to recreate a hastily rehearsed church performance from Bach's time.

I had forgotten that Buwalda was there the whole time. I guess the Novicaine wore off. I need to get that set out and go through it again.

I remember the discussions when the Leusink cycle was being recorded and marketed at the Kruidvat drug stores. I think the consensus was that it should never have happened and Leusink ruined his choir by doing it, but I remember an interview with him about it where he used a Dutch phrase in response which was untranslatable but came out as "I couldn't care less what they think."

Personally, I was just glad to get a complete cantata cycle that didn't break the bank, and again personally, I preferred it over the Harnoncourt recordings that I was able to pick up. Back then I was tempted to put money into a mutual fund so that it would mature by the time Suzuki's cycle was concluded, and then I could cash it in and afford it. But now, for some reason, Suzuki doesn't do it for me; it sounds too slick. Though I admire his faith in God, I guess I prefer a choir driven more by the fear of God.

But I'm glad Leusink is still around; I was wondering what happened to him.


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## starthrower

Der Titan said:


> And these are 69 CDs, I will never listen to all that in my life. But is there anybody out there who would give me a good advice which cantatas I should listen to? The sad fact is that you have wonderfull music in these cantatas, but most people will not know it because it's somewhere in the cantatas.


Why not listen to a CD or two a week? Probably anyone would lose interest trying to digest a huge box of church music too rapidly unless you're a Bach/baroque fanatic. When it comes to older music, I'm only interested in vocals and keyboard/organ music, and only in small doses.


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## Marc

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm glad you got the joke. I have a Harnoncourt Bach oratorio recording where he gushes about compassing land and sea to use an authentic oboe d'amore for the right sound for this recording, but then he wouldn't bring himself to go the extra mile in authenticity to recreate a hastily rehearsed church performance from Bach's time.
> 
> I had forgotten that Buwalda was there the whole time. I guess the Novicaine wore off. I need to get that set out and go through it again.
> 
> I remember the discussions when the Leusink cycle was being recorded and marketed at the Kruidvat drug stores. I think the consensus was that it should never have happened and Leusink ruined his choir by doing it, but I remember an interview with him about it where he used a Dutch phrase in response which was untranslatable but came out as "I couldn't care less what they think."
> 
> Personally, I was just glad to get a complete cantata cycle that didn't break the bank, and again personally, I preferred it over the Harnoncourt recordings that I was able to pick up. Back then I was tempted to put money into a mutual fund so that it would mature by the time Suzuki's cycle was concluded, and then I could cash it in and afford it. But now, for some reason, Suzuki doesn't do it for me; it sounds too slick. Though I admire his faith in God, I guess I prefer a choir driven more by the fear of God.
> 
> But I'm glad Leusink is still around; I was wondering what happened to him.


I had the same experience with Suzuki. Compared to f.i. Koopman, there was a certain gravity in his early cantata recordings, which I liked. But in the end, Koopman's set might have more depth.

I must admit that, despite some problems with tuning/instruments/voices, I still prefer the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt set, when talking about cantata integrals. Very expressive, and (esp. by Leonhardt) delivered like a Lutheran/protestant sermon. Suzuki, as you mentioned, is too slick sometimes. The same goes for his Bach organ playing, btw. OTOH, I recently listened to his Musikalisches Opfer disc, and I very much appreciated it. I also love his Partitas and Goldbergs. Apparently I prefer him as a harpsichordist and chamber musician. Personal taste of course. (But that's all right.)

I.c. Leusink: his ensemble is now called The Bach Choir and Orchestra of the Netherlands. Not taken very seriously (still) by the 'serious' music press here, but he could not care less, since Bach made him a millionaire. No need for the Dutch government to subsidize him.


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## Manxfeeder

Marc said:


> I had the same experience with Suzuki. Compared to f.i. Koopman, there was a certain gravity in his early cantata recordings, which I liked. But in the end, Koopman's set might have more depth.
> 
> I must admit that, despite some problems with tuning/instruments/voices, I still prefer the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt set, when talking about cantata integrals. Very expressive, and (esp. by Leonhardt) delivered like a Lutheran/protestant sermon.


I also tend to lean toward Koopman. I am disappointed that his complete set goes for around $1,000. It's good but not _that_ good.

"Leonhardt . . . delivered like a Lutheran/protestant sermon." What a compelling description! I'll have to dig out my Harnoncourt cantata recordings and relisten to them. Thanks!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Manxfeeder said:


> I also tend to lean toward Koopman. I am disappointed that his complete set goes for around $1,000.


Blimey! I'm glad I bought it piecemeal for much less than that. Like you say, good but not _that_ good. I also have Gardiner's and Suzuki's complete sets - both excellent, although Gardiner takes the crown for me. That said, I really enjoy Philippe Herreweghe's excellent recordings of the cantatas, albeit he hasn't (yet?) recorded them all.


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## Marc

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Blimey! I'm glad I bought it piecemeal for much less than that. Like you say, good but not _that_ good. I also have Gardiner's and Suzuki's complete sets - both excellent, although Gardiner takes the crown for me. That said, I really enjoy Philippe Herreweghe's excellent recordings of the cantatas, albeit he hasn't (yet?) recorded them all.


I share your positive view on his performances. But, not to ruin your day , he's not planning to record them all. He's said that more than once in Belgian/Dutch interviews. In fact, after he left Harmonia Mundi, he already recorded a few works for the 2nd time, instead of focusing on 'new' ones.


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## Derek23

My enjoyment of the cantatas has been hugely enhanced by the high quality video recordings available at Bachipedia.org and at allofbach.com. These two groups both intend to make all the cantatas (and much else) available on the internet. After viewing these performances, I go back to my CDs with greater understanding and enthusiasm.


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## RICK RIEKERT

In an interview Herreweghe gave last month he made the interesting observation that only when people know and understand the very precise points of Lutheran belief that Bach's cantatas talk about will there be a very strong communication between the music and the listener. People from different backgrounds often don’t know what the cantatas are about. They can still hear the beauty of the music but not feel its power. In order to understand and feel the power of the music, Herreweghe says, you must know exactly what the music means and what its texts are about.


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## Derek23

I am sure that there is something in Herreweghe's view, but it should not deter one from just listening (or viewing video performances) of these marvellous works. There is much on the net to aid in some understanding of Lutheran beliefs, and, of course, translations of the texts. The Allofbach video recordings provide interviews with performers which provide useful insights to the works.


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## Dorsetmike

The Baroque Music Library has 4 volumes of Bach cantatas, recorded by the Thomanerchor of St Thomas Leipzig under the Kantor Gunther Ramin

Some background here

http://www.baroquemusic.org/GuntherRamin.html

The 4 volumes from the Bach Heritage Performances are here

http://www.baroquemusic.org/bmlcatalogue.html

Scroll down to bottom of page, click on album cover thumbnail, then left click on track to listen orr Right click for free download


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## flamencosketches

Any opinions on the Jan Leusink/Netherlands Bach Collegium recordings of the cantatas? I ask because I see a 5-CD set for $5. I like the very little bit that I've sampled. So they use an all boys choir and female soloists, eh? I don't care all that much about authenticity, if it sounds good it sounds good. I'm just curious if this conductor and ensemble has any fans here.


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## starthrower

^^^
Did you ever pick up that set? I listen to their live performances on YouTube and I like them a lot.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> ^^^
> Did you ever pick up that set? I listen to their live performances on YouTube and I like them a lot.


Never did. I am not sure if it's still available so cheaply. I'm still looking for a good limited box set of Bach cantatas, I don't think I need the whole shebang just yet.


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## Bulldog

flamencosketches said:


> Any opinions on the Jan Leusink/Netherlands Bach Collegium recordings of the cantatas? I ask because I see a 5-CD set for $5. I like the very little bit that I've sampled.


I've listened to a few of their recordings, and they are quite enjoyable. However, not as expressive as the best groups, a bit matter-of fact.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Never did. I am not sure if it's still available so cheaply. I'm still looking for a good limited box set of Bach cantatas, I don't think I need the whole shebang just yet.


As far as tempos and pacing I like the Netherlands, and Ton Koopman's Erato recordings. Gardiner is too fast. The Netherlands set is available new for 15 dollars from Grooves, inc https://www.grooves-inc.com/leusink...s-cantatas-brilliant-cd-pZZa1-1899084331.html
But I agree with Bulldog about the vocals not being too exciting.


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## gardibolt

The Leusink cantatas are a mixed bag; some quite good, others not so much. But I do like the use of a boy choir; that's what Bach wrote these for, and I've found I much prefer the sound of a boy choir to one of adults on these pieces. Soloists are more of a problem for obvious reasons. But for the price, whether in the Brilliant boxes or otherwise, Leusink is a good way to hear a LOT of Bach cantatas without much investment. Some people find these recordings intolerable; I think they're quite acceptable overall. 

The Kuijken box referenced above is also excellent and not too pricey if you shop around. Another similar box to look for is Biller's box set for the liturgical year with the Choir of St. Thomas in Leipzig, which has gone to the top of my list of favorites. Unfortunately, as far as the complete sets Gardiner and Koopman require a substantial investment and Suzuki is at this point quite unreasonable to try to collect, at least in complete form. Maybe BIS will release a new big box of all of the Suzuki Bach vocal works some day, and these recordings will again become more generally accessible.


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## Manxfeeder

gardibolt said:


> But for the price, whether in the Brilliant boxes or otherwise, Leusink is a good way to hear a LOT of Bach cantatas without much investment. Some people find these recordings intolerable; I think they're quite acceptable overall.


I feel the same way. Leusink gives you all of them, and from there you can pick out the ones you connect with and find the more expensive/better recorded versions of those piece by piece.


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## flamencosketches

When the time comes to get a complete box of the cantatas, I will get the Rilling. All of the others are just absurdly priced. The Koopman box is going for $1400 on amazon :lol: - I like what I've heard of Rilling's recordings well enough!


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## starthrower

Between the 3 volumes of used Koopman CDs I picked up and my Complete Liturgical Year box, I'm all set for quite a while. And these Koopman Erato recordings sound wonderful.


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## flamencosketches

This might be a blasphemous question to ask, but has anyone ever recorded any of Bach's cantatas in an English translation?


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## premont

flamencosketches said:


> This might be a blasphemous question to ask, but has anyone ever recorded any of Bach's cantatas in an English translation?


Don't know, but there is a St.Matthew passion in English.


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## premont

gardibolt said:


> The Leusink cantatas are a mixed bag; some quite good, others not so much. But I do like the use of a boy choir; that's what Bach wrote these for, and I've found I much prefer the sound of a boy choir to one of adults on these pieces. Soloists are more of a problem for obvious reasons. But for the price, whether in the Brilliant boxes or otherwise, Leusink is a good way to hear a LOT of Bach cantatas without much investment. Some people find these recordings intolerable; I think they're quite acceptable overall.


This is also how I feel generally. The boy choir is an important + to me, and another + is the generally fine playing of the obligate instruments. The singing soloists are variable, but this is true of most recordings. What I particularly don't stand is operatic singing, and this I do not find in the Leusink cantatas.


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## Manxfeeder

premont said:


> The generally fine playing of the obligate instruments.


The orchestra is very good. I actually burned a CD of just orchestral opening pieces from this set. It sounds great.


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## wkasimer

premont said:


> Don't know, but there is a St.Matthew passion in English.


And several recordings of the St. John Passion in English.


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## gardibolt

The first one to come to mind was Robert Shaw as the most likely to do that, since he did English versions of both the John and Matthew Passions. But I'm not finding any of his cantata recordings being done in English (though a couple were released with English titles on the albums, the tracks still appear to be in German).

bach-cantatas.com doesn't indicate much, but there are these tidbits responsive to your question:

Cantatas BWV 11, BWV 67, Chorale from BWV 147 - all conducted by Reginald Jacques. See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Jacques.htm Kathleen Ferrier sings alto on this. That page also indicates Jacques did a BWV 6 and BWV 140 in English, but there don't seem to be any modern releases of those that I can find.

A recording of BWV 78 in English, by the Bach Choir of Bethlehem under Ifor Jones, appeared on RCA Victor in the 1940s.

The few others in English listed there are quite ancient indeed:

BWV 50 - "Now Shall The Grace" - Hugh Allen, conductor, 1928
BWV 70 - "Watch ye, Pray ye! - opening chorus - Hugh Allen, conductor, 1928.
BWV 70 - Aria - "Lift up your heads on high" - Gervase Elwes, tenor; F. B. Kiddle, piano, ca. 1919
BWV 227 - "Jesu, Joy, and Treasure" - Kennedy Scott and the Bach Cantata Club - 1927

Good luck tracking those down!


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## Sad Al

Ristenpart on DG is good. You get BWV 4 Christ Lag in Todes Banden (a gem!) BWV 56 Ich will den Kreuztab gerne tragen and Ich habe genug. Early 1950s, mono, young Fischer-Dieskau. I have also the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt boxed set which is very good indeed and still recommended above others by some pros. I have no problem with those boy soprano voices. Leonhardt and Harnoncourt were specialists in this stuff


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## Allegro Con Brio

So many cantatas that are so dear to my heart (it just may be my favorite body of work by any composer), but I'm no good at remembering BWV numbers or German titles. I really need to take notes so I remember which one is which...current favorite is probably tied between "Ich Hatte" and the secular cantata "Lass, Furstin." As far as recordings, obviously if you are into physical collecting (which I am not so I can't provide price details, etc.) a complete box set is going to be a significant investment, so I suggest you do some deep listening via streaming before deciding. I get word that the Suzuki box is out of print. That's a major disappointment, for these performances are hands-down my favorites for the cantatas. Suzuki is sensibly HIP without the breakneck tempi that often characterize others. His players and singers always sound like they're having the time of their lives, and there is such a poignant prayerful intimacy and joy to every cantata. They truly sound like they're _discovering_ Bach and loving every second of it. His team of soloists is also pretty much unmatched - they rotate from cantata to cantata but Carolyn Sampson, Peter Kooij, Robin Blaze (a great countertenor), Gerd Turk, and the others are all excellent and idiomatic. The only other full set I've spent significant time listening from is the Koopman, which I liked for a while due to the larger choir, but eventually I became annoyed with the unnecessarily slick tempo choices and the inferior soloists to Suzuki (including a positively dreadful countertenor that makes frequent appearances). Sometimes it sounds like they're skating over the surface of the music rather than finding meaning in it like Suzuki's team does. I've heard a handful of cantatas from Herreweghe, Rilling, Richter, and Gardiner, of which I highly recommend the ones Herreweghe did with Andreas Scholl even though I often find his overall conception of Bach rather too subdued for me. I haven't been impressed with Rilling at all from the limited stuff I've heard, and Richter is simply too stodgy and old-fashioned even for an old-school guy like me. I've been too afraid to hear Harnoncourt because the second I hear "boy singers," I'm outta there like a gazelle running from a lion.


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