# Pink Floyd - Dogs



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

An interesting track, one of Pink Floyd's better songs in my view. I'm a big fan of minor 9th chords, this song starts off with one. I often like to strum this chord progression and I wonder to myself, how the hell they came up with it?

The chords according to wiki are D minor ninth, E♭maj7sus2/B♭, Asus2sus4, and A♭sus2(♯11). (?!)

Anyway this is unlike any other chord progression I've played and I'm wondering if anyone can think of any other songs that use something similar. Are there any predecessors? What inspired these chords? Random experimentation?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Yes. I find that Gilmour's voice is quite likeable. I have a difficult time listening to Waters' voice for more than one song at a time.

I could do without the extended instrumental in the center, with the endlessly repeated _stone stone stone stone stone stone stone stone stone stone . . . . _. Cute for a short time, but beaten like a horse for far too long.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

They obviously experimented blending vocals with dog howling and this "stone" episode works really well, lending to the overall atmosphere. In fact, I love that bit too! (I consider Animals their strongest work)


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I really like Animals, and I will be listening to the entire album within the next few days. As for that chord progression, I have no idea. Gilmore probably just stumbled across it noodling on his guitar one evening while half-baked. 

I have a memory of listening to that album often in the early 80s. I was in high school and I lived only a quarter-mile from my high school. I used to race home for lunch, my parents at work, put on an album, make lunch, the forty-minute album finished, lunch finished, and race back to class for my afternoon classes. That album, among others, got many spins during those lunches.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Azol said:


> (I consider Animals their strongest work)


Let's agree to disagree.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I like _Dogs_ but agree that the '_stone...stone...stone..._' section is overlong. With Rick Wright now out of the song-writing picture perhaps they were short of options and needed to pad the _Animals_ album out this way. I think the precursor to _Dogs_ was written some years earlier when it was tentatively titled _You've Gotta Be Crazy_.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

What's their track, Seamus, with the howling dog? One of the few extant examples of cross-species music making.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

tdc said:


> The chords according to wiki are D minor ninth, E♭maj7sus2/B♭, Asus2sus4, and A♭sus2(♯11). (?!)


One other piece of information for anyone interested - in order to play this progression using the right voicings in the right key requires down tuning all the strings of the guitar one whole step. Not sure what the reason was for them doing that, I'm guessing that the key worked better with the vocals. When I strum it I just do it in standard tuning starting with an E minor 9.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I used to space out listening to Dogs through my Koss headphones back in the late 70s. But I haven't returned to this album but a couple of times in the past 40 years. My wife bought me the 2011 CD reissue which is supposed to be a good sounding edition so maybe I'll give it a fresh spin. I do like the strummed acoustic guitar part. I never bothered to figure out the chords.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> I used to space out listening to Dogs through my Koss headphones back in the late 70s. But I haven't returned to this album but a couple of times in the past 40 years. My wife bought me the 2011 CD reissue which is supposed to be a good sounding edition so maybe I'll give it a fresh spin. *I do like the strummed acoustic guitar part. I never bothered to figure out the chords*.


That is why I'm interested in this progression, not just because it seems unique, (anyone can find some weird chords to string together) but that they are seemingly so unique yet also flow together so nicely. I think they sound so good together most people probably don't realize their weirdness.

Next time you're strumming if you get a chance try these out:

-2 -0 -0 -2 -0 -1
-3 -1 -2 -2 -1 -1
-0 -0 -4 -4 -3 -3
-2 -3 -4 -4 -3 -3
-2 -3 -x -x -x -x
-0 -x -x -x -x -x

Looks like 6 chords there because of those quick 'ornamental' notes in the last two chords on the high e string on frets 2 and 1 respectively.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I will try to get around to listening to the album tonight. But Animals is a bit of a downer and I usually do not care to re-live my teenage years of alienation.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I will try to get around to listening to the album tonight. But Animals is a bit of a downer and I usually do not care to re-live my teenage years of alienation.


I'll give props to *Waters* for being a decent lyricist, although a lot of his lyrics are downers. I find his voice annoying, and he's thoroughly unlikeable as a person. He wasn't even a great musician, with Gilmour having to teach him how to play the bass properly. In fact, Gilmour simply recorded many of the bass parts for Pink Floyd songs himself, as it saved a great deal of time. While Waters gets official credit for 90% for playing bass on PF songs, the reality is that once Gilmour joined the band for their second album, he played bass on roughly half the tracks.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't mind Waters' voice myself - whatever its technical shortcomings his sour vinegar is a necessary contrast with Gilmour's creamier tones and I think it actually compliments the negativity of much of PFs later subject matter.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I will try to get around to listening to the album tonight. But Animals is a bit of a downer and I usually do not care to re-live my teenage years of alienation.


That's my problem, I can't seem to stop reliving my teenage years of alienation. :lol:



pianozach said:


> I'll give props to *Waters* for being a decent lyricist, *although a lot of his lyrics are downers*. I find his voice annoying, and he's thoroughly unlikeable as a person. He wasn't even a great musician, with Gilmour having to teach him how to play the bass properly. In fact, Gilmour simply recorded many of the bass parts for Pink Floyd songs himself, as it saved a great deal of time. While Waters gets official credit for 90% for playing bass on PF songs, the reality is that once Gilmour joined the band for their second album, he played bass on roughly half the tracks.


Mental health, depression, alienation, politics, socio-politics, abandonment, isolation, and death. Yes, a lot of downer topics. :lol:

Probably why I identified with the music of Pink Floyd. :lol:

When the band you're in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, when I finish listening to Allan Holdsworth I'll put it on. I do want to hear what my CD sounds like on the stereo.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

tdc said:


> An interesting track, one of Pink Floyd's better songs in my view. I'm a big fan of minor 9th chords, this song starts off with one. I often like to strum this chord progression and I wonder to myself, how the hell they came up with it?
> 
> The chords according to wiki are D minor ninth, E♭maj7sus2/B♭, Asus2sus4, and A♭sus2(♯11). (?!)
> 
> Anyway this is unlike any other chord progression I've played and I'm wondering if anyone can think of any other songs that use something similar. Are there any predecessors? What inspired these chords? Random experimentation?


I just listened to it for the first time. What inspired those chords is likely the ease of fingering in fifth position when whoever wrote it was mucking around with a drop D tuning. There are three open strings in the first chord (1,5, & 6), one finger is lifted and one added for the next chord. The next two are easy too in that tuning and position.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> I just listened to it for the first time. What inspired those chords is likely the ease of fingering in fifth position when whoever wrote it was mucking around with a drop D tuning. There are three open strings in the first chord (1,5, & 6), one finger is lifted and one added for the next chord. The next two are easy too in that tuning and position.


Not sure if you listened to the wrong song, or came across a different arrangement? But the first chord has only strings 6 and 3 open, and going to the second chord requires all the fingers to move. The song is not in drop D, it was recorded in D standard which means all the strings are lowered so the chords would be fretted exactly the same way as in standard tuning. Not sure if you are familiar with how to read guitar tablature but I tabbed out the chords in post #10.

I do think one of the things that makes this progression work well is there are open D's (or E's if you are using standard tuning) in all of the chords, unifying them and all of them have inner parts that move by a half step into each successive chord.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The first chord change in itself is unorthodox, usually see that second chord shape functioning as a C sus4 chord (talking in standard tuning terms here).

The last two shapes flow easily under the fingers into each other but the shape itself coming from that second chord is not commonly used or intuitive. Like I said I haven't come across a chord progression I can think of like this in any other song, and I know hundreds of pop and rock songs. Maybe there is something out there like it I'm not thinking of at the moment which is why I asked.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

I remember listening to a 70s Brazilian pop song that had the same RHYTHM as the main riff in Dogs. Beautiful song. I think it featured a nylon string guitar. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of it...

By the way, tdc: I've also been fascinated by this chord progression ever since the first time I heard it. It really is something inspired. One of their best numbers, for sure.

I don't really know any other song with a chord progression remotely like it, which is not something I can say for any other Floyd song.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I've been listening to a lot of good folk (Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Jackson Frank), Bossa Nova and Jazz lately, so the chord progression doesn't sound that unique to me, although if you set it up in a rock context, like who is rock has done this before, then it makes it sound more unique.

Maybe it's the very odd synthesizer patch that is making it sound more unusual.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> I don't really know any other song with a chord progression remotely like it, which is not something I can say for any other Floyd song.


True, although there are plenty of Floyd songs I don't know. The album 'Piper at the Gates of Dawn' sounds pretty unique to me, that's for sure.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

regenmusic said:


> I've been listening to a lot of good folk (Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Jackson Frank), Bossa Nova and Jazz lately, so the chord progression doesn't sound that unique to me, although if you set it up in a rock context, like who is rock has done this before, then it makes it sound more unique.
> 
> Maybe it's the very odd synthesizer patch that is making it sound more unusual.


As mentioned earlier in the thread, it is not so much that these chords sound unusual, its that they _are_ unusual. If you can point out something similar, even in a jazz context I would be interested to know about it.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

tdc said:


> As mentioned earlier in the thread, it is not so much that these chords sound unusual, its that they _are_ unusual. If you can point out something similar, even in a jazz context I would be interested to know about it.


Nothing off the top of my head, but if you asked Rick Beato, who has a popular music theory YT channel, I think he would know one.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Rick Beato possibly would, yes. I'm bumping this thread because perhaps MR knows of something.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

NoCoPilot said:


> What's their track, *Seamus*, with the howling dog? One of the few extant examples of cross-species music making.


Listen again. It's not just a dog howling, it's using the dog as an instrument. There's an instrumental section, where if you're paying attention, the dog IS the solo (instead of a guitar solo or whatever). It's actually musical throughout the song.

I've heard a similar thing done by Paul Winter in his track _*Lullaby From The Great Mother Whale For The Baby Seal Pups*_, where he used actual whale calls to make an 8-note passacaglia.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

tdc said:


> True, although there are plenty of Floyd songs I don't know. The album 'Piper at the Gates of Dawn' sounds pretty unique to me, that's for sure.


*See-Saw* (from their 2nd LP, A Saucerful of Secrets) is pretty unique in terms of chord progression. Analysis:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

I love this song - dreamy and shimmery, like a late-Victorian impressionist painting slowly coming to life. Roger Waters didn't think much of Richard Wright's two songs on _A Saucerful of Secrets_ (the other being _Remember a Day_). Wright himself characteristically self-deprecating about their merit but they still chime with me 40-odd years after first hearing them.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> ^
> ^
> 
> I love this song - dreamy and shimmery, like a late-Victorian impressionist painting slowly coming to life. Roger Waters didn't think much of Richard Wright's two songs on _A Saucerful of Secrets_ (the other being _Remember a Day_). Wright himself characteristically self-deprecating about their merit but they still chime with me 40-odd years after first hearing them.


Yeah, *See-Saw* is far more brilliant when you go all intellectual on it, but because of its apparent simplicity, the song just seems a little 'odd'.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Interesting discussion. i was always amazed at how little you hear this album on the radio. It has pretty much disappeared.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

pianozach said:


> Listen again. It's not just a dog howling, it's using the dog as an instrument. There's an instrumental section, where if you're paying attention, the dog IS the solo (instead of a guitar solo or whatever). It's actually musical throughout the song.


They did the dog in the Pompeii Concert as well in 1972. Some dogs really sing naturally with resonating tunes.
The Animals record has been for me the point when I lost the interest in PF. The Wall and specially Final Cut(and from there on) I find boring even today.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Animals and The Wall are both top tier Pink Floyd albums in my view. After The Wall, I'm less interested, but still have a number of good songs.

Interesting that Saucerful of Secrets is Nick Mason's favorite Floyd album. I like his drumming contributions on the title track.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

I think _A Saucerful of Secrets_ is better than it probably had any right to be - culled from different sessions, Dave Gilmour not yet bedded in, Syd Barrett fading into the wallpaper and both Roger Waters and Richard Wright forced to raise their songwriting game almost overnight. All this could have been a recipe for disaster but I think the album hangs together well. The real masterstroke was concluding the album with Barrett's harrowing _Jugband Blues_ - part confessional, part mental breakdown. Possibly the most poignant end to an album I can remember.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

erki said:


> They did the dog in the Pompeii Concert as well in 1972. Some dogs really sing naturally with resonating tunes.
> The Animals record has been for me the point when I lost the interest in PF. The Wall and specially Final Cut(and from there on) I find boring even today.


I find it rather amusing that they attempted to perform *Seamus* live with an actual singing dog. One of the things I love about PF.

I remember when *The Wall* came out . . . it seemed so epic, so intense, so purposeful, so personal. It wasn't really very long before it wore thin with me. It quickly became whiney, simple, overblown, a lot of filler tracks. Sure, there's certainly some great tracks, but I don't ever listen to the album as a whole anymore.

I like *Another Brick In the Wall* (I actually created an all-in-one version), _*Goodbye Blue Sky, Hey You*_, and *Comfortably Numb*, but Roger's screechy voice is as annoying as Yoko Ono.

I heard some of the tracks off the *The Final Cut*, but because it had minimal involvement from Gilmour, and because Wright had been fired by a petulant Waters, I never even bothered listening to the full album until a few years ago (Thanks Youtube!). It didn't really impress me, although it wasn't nearly as awful as I thought it might be.

I like the post-Waters albums (Gilmour's Floyd) . . . I enjoy his vocals, and, of course, his guitar playing is nifty and unique.


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