# Masterpieces Off the Beaten Track: Part Three: Symphonies



## Alypius

Under the "Solo & Chamber Music" Section, I began two threads, asking for recommendations of little known masterpieces in the genres of the string quartet and of works for solo piano:

http://www.talkclassical.com/32339-masterpieces-off-beaten-track.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/32743-masterpieces-off-beaten-track.html

They have alerted me-and hopefully alerted others-to a number of fascinating works. So perhaps, we might follow a similar exploration of symphonies. I realize that "little known" is a matter of degree. But as I have reflected back over my own journey of making discoveries, I realized that 10 years ago, while I was familiar with the big names and major symphonies of classical music, there were all sorts of composers beyond those big names whose symphonic works were unknown to me. Many of those somewhat lesser known (and often more recent) composers had composed remarkable symphonic works that opened new possibilities for the genre. Discovery of such works have opened new world of listening to me. A couple of examples:

*Karol Syzmanowski, Symphony #4 ("Symphonie Concertante"), op. 60 (1932)*










*Per Nørgård, Symphony #3 (1975)*










*Einojuhani Rautavaara, Symphony #7 ("Angel of Light") (1994)*










Any favorite discoveries? Please list the specific symphony number and not just the composer (something necessary, for example, with a composer such as Mieczyslaw Weinberg who has more than 20).


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## Guest

Favorite non-Nielsen/Sibelius Nordic symphonies:

Norgard 2/3
Rautavaara 7/8
Aho 8/9
Sallinen 6/8
Langaard 1/3
Svendsen 1
Alfven 4
Stenhammar 2
Berwald 3
Nystroem Sinfonia Del Mare
I believe it was Holmboe 4 that I enjoyed the most the last time I listened to his stuff?

Some others that come to mind first:
Schnittke 5 (Concerto Grosso 4)
Rubinstein 2
Dutilleux 2
Carter Symphonia
Hovhaness 2
Wagner C Major
Villa-Lobos 10
Penderecki 7
Lutoslawski 4
Szymanowski 3
Berio Sinfonia
Karlowicz Rebirth Symphony
Gliere 3
Walton 1

A few of these are fairly well-known around these parts even if they aren't standard fare for what I know of the performance repertoire, but since you dropped Szymanowski as well, I figured, might as well.


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## worov




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## SONNET CLV

Too, too many to name:

Erich Wolfgang Korngold's Symphony in F-sharp, Op. 40
Miklós Maros's Symphony No. 1 (1974) 
Gunther Schuller's Symphony 1965
Colin McPhee's Symphony No. 2
Howard Hanson's Symphony No. 2 in D-flat major, Opus 30, W45, "Romantic"
Malcolm Arnold's Symphony No. 3, Op. 63
Albéric Magnard's Symphony No. 3 in B-flat minor, Op.11
Ned Rorem's Symphony No. 3
William Alwyn's Symphony No. 4
Joly Braga Santos's Symphony No. 4
Einojuhani Rautavaara's Symphony No. 5
Vagn Holmboe's Symphony No. 6, Op. 43

Samuel Barber's Symphony No. 1
John Corigliano's Symphony No. 1
Jean-Claude Wolff's Symphony No. 2 (1978)
Ross Lee Finney's Symphony No. 2
Paul Creston's Symphony No. 2
Ernest Bloch's Symphony (No. 2) in E-flat
Hilding Rosenberg's Symphony No. 2 (_Sinfonia Grave_)
Roger Sessions's Symphony No. 3
Roger Goeb's Symphony No. 3
Sir Arnold Bax's Third _and_ Fourth Symphonies
Dag Wiren's Symphony No. 4, Op. 27
Sir Granville Bantock's _Celtic Symphony_ (Symphony No. 4)
George Lloyd's Symphony No. 5


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## dgee

I'd be wary of calling any of them masterpieces, but I quite enjoy:

Schreker Chamber Symphony
Henze 5&6
Norgard 6
Schmidt 4 
William Schuman 3
Honneger 3 and 4 (probably on the beaten track...)
Schubert 4 (also probably beaten track)


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## ptr

I think that all* of Allan Pettersson symphonies are unjustly neglected master pieces (but then I'm just a brainwashed local fan with no taste in music at all...  )

/ptr

* except maybe the first which was more a study symphony that weren't going any were, Christian Lindberg et all's "reconstruction" has proven this very well!


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## Aramis

Mieczysław Karłowicz - Symphony in E minor
Ignacy Jan Paderewski - Symphony in B minor 

both released on CDs in performances under baton of Jerzy Maksymiuk


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## Alypius

Thanks, all, for the many suggestions. A few are familar, many are not. Among the ones I'm familiar with, let me especially second Lutoslawski 4, Dutilleux 2, William Schuman 3, and Norgard 6.

















William Schuman's 3rd brings up an interesting point. Bernstein was a strong advocate of it and the works of other contempoary American symphonists such as David Diamond and Roy Harris. But those don't seem to have continued to be regular works in the concert repertoire.










Has anyone heard the works that they recommended live, in a concert venue? It seems to me that the conservatism of programmers has excluded most of these works from being performed and heard by concertgoers.


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## dgee

Good point Alypius, of all those listed I have heard Schmidt 4, Walton 1 and played Schubert 4


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## Chronochromie

Joachim Raff - Symphony #3 and #5
Hans Rott - Symphony in E major (I've read it inspired Mahler)
Erno Dohnanyi - Symphony #1


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## techniquest

I suppose it's easy to list a whole host of lesser-known symphonies, but I have a few that I genuinely think are worthy of a bigger profile. 
First, George Lloyd - Symphony No.11. A rip-roaring work that has great melodies, big lush climaxes and beautiful, delicate moments too (below is the 1st movement).





Secondly, here is the Symphony No.7 by Cornelius Dopper. It is subtitled "Zuiderzee", has some great tunes, superb orchestration and a fantastic finale, especially the closing few minutes. Below is a complete live performance from 1990.





Finally (and a rather a long way off the beaten track), is the Symphony No.4 "Epitaph" by Karen Khachaturian. Much more modernist in style than the above two symphonies, it is a strange but approachable work with some very emotional writing, and music quotes (such as a moment from Bach's "Air on a G String") which appear out of nowhere and then disappear. If you can find it (it's not even on Youtube), then give it a listen.


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## SONNET CLV

Der Leiermann said:


> Joachim Raff - Symphony #3 and #5
> *Hans Rott - Symphony in E major* (I've read it inspired Mahler)
> Erno Dohnanyi - Symphony #1


Good choices, especially the Rott.

Though Raff's "Im Walde" (No. 3) deserves to be better known.


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## BRHiler

I may be repeating some, and if I do, please don't flog me!!!!

Soren Nils Eichberg: Symphony #1 and 2
Roberto Sierra: Sinfonia #4
Ingolf Dahl: Sinfonietta
Adolphus Hailstork: Symphony #3
Christopher Rouse: Symphonies #1,2,3
Stephen Albert: Symphony "River Run" (he died way too young)
Malcolm Arnold: Symphonies #3 and 4
Morton Gould: Symphony #4 "West Point"
Gunther Schuller: Symphony for Brass and Percussion, and Symphony #3 "In Praise of Winds"



> I think that all* of Allan Pettersson symphonies are unjustly neglected master pieces (but then I'm just a brainwashed local fan with no taste in music at all... )


Ptr, I hope you are being silly here, because I just bought (don't have yet though) a couple of Pettersson discs solely based on your recommendation /evil glare


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## Alypius

BRHiler said:


> I may be repeating some, and if I do, please don't flog me!!!!
> 
> Soren Nils Eichberg: Symphony #1 and 2
> Roberto Sierra: Sinfonia #4
> Ingolf Dahl: Sinfonietta
> Adolphus Hailstork: Symphony #3
> Christopher Rouse: Symphonies #1,2,3
> Stephen Albert: Symphony "River Run" (he died way too young)
> Malcolm Arnold: Symphonies #3 and 4
> Morton Gould: Symphony #4 "West Point"
> Gunther Schuller: Symphony for Brass and Percussion, and Symphony #3 "In Praise of Winds"
> ...


Actually repetitions are helpful since they draw added attention to works.

Could you say something about Roberto Sierra's recent _Sinfonia_? I've had my eye on that.


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## Mahlerian

I don't know about "Masterpiece", but I've enjoyed these:

Yashiro: Symphony









Akio Yashiro was a student of Messiaen and Boulanger, as well as Ifukube and Hashimoto, and his music has a French sound to it overall. His symphony is based on a few motifs presented in different guises throughout. Very colorful and enjoyable, if not groundbreaking or original.

Harbison: Symphony No. 6







(Available for digital download via the Boston Symphony's Website)

American composer John Harbison has written a total of six symphonies to this point. His last two have featured a vocal element, five throughout and six in its brief first movement. That first movement provides the thematic material for the rest of the symphony, which is also colored by the cimbalom.

Sessions: Symphony No. 3









A word should be put in for Harbison's teacher, Roger Sessions, who was one of the preeminent 12-tone composers in America. His music is akin to Schoenberg's, dark and lyrical. The Third Symphony is the first he wrote using the 12-tone technique (he wrote nine in all).


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## ptr

Some slightly contemporary symphonies I've enjoyed, posterity will tell their masterpiece worth;

Erkki-Sven Tüür's third, fourth, sixth and seventh symphony's (ECM)
Fazil Say's Istanbul Symphony (Naive)
Galina Ustvolskaya's Symphonies 2 - 5 (MegaDisc)

And from a slightly older generation I feel that the Symphonies of Michael Tippett, Roberto Gerhard, Vagn Holmboe have embryos of future masterpiece's !
I've "always" been thinking that both Janacek and Poulenc's Sinfoniettas are very underrated masterworks!

/ptr


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## Guest

I will have to give Tuur another chance. I listened to one of his discs on ECM and wasn't quite convinced.

Also the Yashiro sounds intriguing...always cool to have more Japanese music


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## Mahlerian

arcaneholocaust said:


> Also the Yashiro sounds intriguing...always cool to have more Japanese music


Yashiro had a very small output, and he died relatively young. I've heard four pieces by him: a String Quartet, a Piano Sonata, and the two on that Naxos disc, and that accounts for a good deal of his mature output. According to the Japanese Wikipedia article, he was admired by Boulez and Penderecki, who are of the same generation (though his music seems pretty far from the things Boulez normally appreciates).

For an unexpected answer to the question, I propose Bruckner's Fourth Symphony...in its original 1874 version.









Even though the original version of the Third is beginning to supersede the revisions in the concert hall, the original version of the Fourth is still an extreme rarity. More so than with the Third or the Eighth, the Fourth is very nearly a completely different composition in its original form. The first two movements were extensively revised, the Scherzo was replaced with a new movement without any relation to the original, and the finale was completely rewritten, based on much of the same material.

There's little question that the final version is more streamlined in many respects, and the problematic finale is even more problematic in the original version, but there are a lot of wonderful inspirations and moments that were removed in the process, from all of the movements. The climax of the development in the first movement in the revision leads to a string passage based on the second theme, and then to the recapitulation, but in the original version, this passage led to a building crescendo complete with a string figure that reappeared at the beginning of the original finale, and this crescendo elided directly into the recapitulation where the subsidiary melody was on strings rather than flute. There are some additional complexities of texture that were cut, admittedly in part because they can obscure the main lines, but they are fascinating all the same.


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## Kilgore Trout

ptr said:


> Erkki-Sven Tüür's third, fourth, sixth and seventh symphony's (ECM)


Sadly, ECM hasn't recorded Tüür's 5 and 8 yet, which are his best symphonies with the third to me.

Tüür can be bland at times, but there are good works too.


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## Alypius

Arvo Pärt is, of course, one of the best known contemporary composers -- best known for his choral works and for his distinctive "tintinabuli" style. He is not as well known for symphonies partly because he has written only one in the last 40 years and the works of his pre-tintinabuli style are much less known. His symphony #3 dates from 1971, just when he was changing his style. There was a recent superb performance by Kristjan Jarvi, son of Neeme Jarvi, to whom the work was dedicated. Part and the Jarvi family are longtime friends. And this is a superb performance:










A review:



> "A landmark symphony in a new recording by its dedicatee's son. A fine new disc in celebration of Pärt's 75th birthday, with world premier recordings of the Stabat Mater in choral-orchestral guise and the Cantique des degrès, and the Third Symphony, a work that marked the beginning of a sea-change in the composer's compositional style, back in 1971... As for the Symphony no. 3, the work's dedicatee Neeme Järvi has a sure feel for the music's disconcerting contrasts, of almost academic bicinia and heart-on-sleeve pseudo-Tchaikovsky, but I detect overall a little more warmth, a touch more flexibility and a more legato sound in this new recording. Most remarkable is the second movement, which in the Berliners' performance runs to just over nine minutes, whereas Neeme Järvi brings it in at 6'22". I'm more convinced by the latter; the slower speed stretches it to just beyond that point at which the innate tension and relaxation of the long melodic lines is broken. But the orchestral sound is luscious and no subtlety missed: an important disc for any admirer of the composer."-Ivan Moody (_Gramophone_)


*****

In 2008, he composed his Symphony #4, commissioned by Esa-Pekka Salonen and the Los Angeles Philharmonic and premiered by them. It was released in 2010 and was nominated for a Grammy under the category for "Best Contemporary Classical Work":










A review:



> "Nobody, I think, would have predicted a Symphony from Arvo Pärt nearly 40 years after his last one. But since No 3 he has developed a vocabulary of a singular intensity and cohesion, which is something he was grasping for, and not quite finding, while still in his native Estonia in 1971. That vocabulary has been established by means of an extended series of choral works, linked ever more clearly with his Orthodox faith but employing an ever-expanding range of musical and linguistic colour. That confidence-evinced most clearly, perhaps, and most recently in the majestic Kanon Pokajanen, fragments of which complement the new Symphony-has transferred itself in no uncertain terms to his instrumental work. There has probably never been a symphony like this, though one can in some way imagine Bruckner approving of it, and it has a precedent in La Sindone from 2006. Inspired by the Canon to the Guardian Angel (an Orthodox devotional text), it harks back to a Bachian pre-tintinnabuli history, but with the slow lushness characteristic of the composer's recent work. I find it difficult to comment on the work structurally, so much of a continuous stream is it, but it is important precisely to emphasise the astonishing feeling for that very continuity that the LAPO under Salonen clearly has. The sheer beauty of the sound-and the silence-also does not escape them (I wonder if there is any orchestra on the planet that can make pizzicatos sound as sensuous as this?), but that is also part of the work's never-ending line. Repeated listening brings great rewards: this is a true symphony for the 21st century."-Ivan Moody (_Gramophone_).


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## GreenMamba

I was going to mention the *Yashiro Symphony*, but Mahlerian beat me to it.

*Cowell Symphony #11*
*Chambers Symphony of the Universe*


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## Piwikiwi

I like Dukas his oboy symphony


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

The third symphony by Louise Farrenc I wouldn't hesitate to call a masterpiece!

Not sure how "off the beaten track" Janacek's Sinfonietta is but it's also certainly a masterpiece.


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## Alypius

In the opening post, I highlighted Per Norgard's _Symphony #3_. His _Symphony #8_ was released in the US just on June 10th and is performed by the Vienna Philharmonic, with Sakari Oramo conducting. Several TC members already have it, and I've seen it popping up on the "Current Listening" thread. It seems appropriate to highlight it here. We need to celebrate new symphonies by major composers. My copy is on order. In the meantime, I've been listening to it on Spotify:


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## GioCar

Alfredo Casella's Symphony #2










with a sort of "mahlerianesque" flavour


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## nightscape

Myaskovsky 17









Raff 5









Piston 2


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## maestro267

I'm a big fan of Casella's 2nd (mentioned above) as well.

I'm following Naxos' cycle of Heitor Villa-Lobos' symphonies and really enjoying them. Only 3, 4, 6 & 7 have been released so far, and I'm waiting increasingly impatiently for Volume 3 (Vol. 2 came out in March 2013).

Penderecki's symphonies are also recent favourites of mine.


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## BRHiler

Alypius said:


> Actually repetitions are helpful since they draw added attention to works.
> 
> Could you say something about Roberto Sierra's recent _Sinfonia_? I've had my eye on that.


Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this one Alypius! Had a big backlog of CD's to get through before I could come back to the Sierra.

What I love about Naxos discs, is that you can't go wrong. $10 for a CD is awesome. I got it purely because I love checking out new (to me) composers and if it sucks, I only lost $10!

But, in this case, the whole disc is fantastic. The Fandangos and Carnavale have a very "latin-y" sound to them.

The Sinfonia is wonderful as well. Definitely more "serious" than the other two, and more "serious" than his other Sonfonias. The best way to describe it without getting into too many details is a modern Samuel Barber. It has the more lush sound, and long arching melodies, especially in the slower sections/movements. While there is a hint of Latin America sound in the Sinfonia, it is not as prevalent as the other two pieces. He's a fantastic orchestrator. The colors shine on all three pieces.

So, yeah, get it


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## arpeggio

*Atterberg, Lennox & Michael Berkeley & Fibich*

Great thread. Many fine suggestions.

Four new composers for me that I have submitted posts about in the "Latest Purchases" Thread.

Atterberg: http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-490.html#post693673

Just completed listening to these fine works.

Lennox & Michael Berkeley:

http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-467.html#post643943

http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-425.html#post574598

http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-423.html#post572242

http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-423.html#post572668

http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-424.html#post573386

Fibich: http://www.talkclassical.com/1006-latest-purchases-439.html#post603644


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