# Pieces that have underwhelmed you lately



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I heard this on the radio and couldn't tell it was Beethoven. Maybe Mozart. I was underwhelmed.

Sextet for Two Horns and Strings in E-flat Major, Op.81b; Ludwig van Beethoven; Gewandhaus Quartet; Hermann Baumann, Vladimir Dhambasov, horns. Philips 426440

I will not be purchasing this CD.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Was it the piece or the performance that underwhelmed you?

The live performance I'm listening to sounds great. Excellent horn players.

Good topic for a thread. I hear scores of pieces that underwhelm me, ones that other listeners react to with enthusiasm. I can't help thinking those listeners are trying too hard to broaden their horizons.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> I heard this on the radio and couldn't tell it was Beethoven. Maybe Mozart. I was underwhelmed.
> 
> Sextet for Two Horns and Strings in E-flat Major, Op.81b; Ludwig van Beethoven; Gewandhaus Quartet; Hermann Baumann, Vladimir Dhambasov, horns. Philips 426440


Perhaps you were just blinded by your ears.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Open Book said:


> Was it the piece or the performance that underwhelmed you?
> 
> The live performance I'm listening to sounds great. Excellent horn players.


Did I forget to mention, I hate horns?

Perhaps this piece was written during an earlier, 'hornier' period of Beethoven's life.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> Did I forget to mention, I hate horns?
> 
> Perhaps this piece was written during an earlier, 'hornier' period of Beethoven's life.


You must have something of a love/hate affair with Bruckner.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Open Book said:


> Good topic for a thread.


A thread devoted to negative comments about musical works is a good topic? I doubt it.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> A thread devoted to negative comments about musical works is a good topic? I doubt it.


says someone who made a game about the most hated classical works :lol:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Jacck said:


> says someone who made a game about the most hated classical works :lol:


Yes, but in that entire game there were no negative comments about any musical work or composer.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I've tried two different recordings, and it just won't click for me. I can appreciate it as daringly modern for 1830. I just can't ever crave listening to it.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

I remember hearing what I thought was a mediocre, trite, uninspired, early 19th century symphony on the radio a few months ago, and wondered why they bothered playing it. It turned out to be Schubert’s sixth.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

At last, back on topic.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

flamencosketches said:


> You must have something of a love/hate affair with Bruckner.


Yes, I do. I love/hate his use of horns, but only if they are played perfectly out-of tune.

What about the bass trumpet in The Rite? I love/hate that one also, but in a more innovative way.

Thread duty: Rachmaninoff's Vespers. What's the big deal?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Negative comments about musical works is only traceable to the composers.


That's not true. Negative comments about a work loved by a particular member are also traceable to that member.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> That's not true. Negative comments about a work loved by a particular member are also traceable to that member.


Yeah, what kind of human being would love Schubert's sixth symphony?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Waldesnacht said:


> I remember hearing what I thought was a mediocre, trite, uninspired, early 19th century symphony on the radio a few months ago, and wondered why they bothered playing it. It turned out to be Schubert's sixth.


Well, if you can't trust a brand name like Schubert, what _can_ you trust? Your ears?


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> Did I forget to mention, I hate horns?
> 
> Perhaps this piece was written during an earlier, 'hornier' period of Beethoven's life.


Wow, I love horns. The French horn is used nowhere else but in classical music, and its sound is unique. It can be haunting in a way that no other brass instrument is.

Beethoven makes great use of horns in his 7th symphony. Do you dislike that?


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2019)

Open Book said:


> Good topic for a thread. I hear scores of pieces that underwhelm me, ones that other listeners react to with enthusiasm. I can't help thinking those listeners are trying too hard to broaden their horizons.


Producing a list of duff recommendations? I'm not sure that would serve much purpose. It would be quite a long list, I guess.

I basically finished building my classical music library ages ago (15-20 years). At that time it comprised about 2000 CDs covering every century from the 12th to the 20th. Since then I have found a few extra works that I had missed previously, mainly in the 20th C. I have also added quite a few extra versions of the same works that I had originally.

In total my collection is now the equivalent of about 3000 CDs including downloads. That doesn't include radio recordings of concerts like the BBC Proms and various other live events, which account for a few 100 more hours.

I realise that some members' collections are probably much larger, but I doubt that I am missing anything of any importance in the main classical music repertoire.

In my time spent here, on the occasions when I have spotted something new to me that sounded potentially interesting, I have normally acquired a copy or listened to it on Spotify. There have been some very good suggestions and I'm glad I followed them up. Unfortunately, there have also been more occasions when I found the stuff didn't suit my tastes after all. Some of it, in fact, I found to be very poor, but I have never said so, for the reason that it may have caused offence to whoever made the recommendation, and that piece might appeal to some other people.

As a general rule, for my purposes I have found that the best way to seek out new material is to work my way further down the various lists of the most popular works by each composer I'm interested in, as given on various music websites. This can be done at any level, for beginners to quite sophisticated collections. I have more or less finished this now, and doubt that I'll be adding much more, as my present collection is already far more than I can handle. I have literally forgotten about some 80-90% of all the stuff I have, in that it hardly ever gets played.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> That's not true. Negative comments about a work loved by a particular member are also traceable to that member.


Only by proxy, in a second-hand sense. Those don't count; otherwise, we'd be playing "traceable to Kevin Bacon" all day.

Only a negative comment about an 'actual comment on a composer by a member', using at least 85% of the actual wording/phrasing, can count as a (second degree) ad hominem.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> Well, if you can't trust a brand name like Schubert, what _can_ you trust? Your ears?


Interesting comment. I find that "the brand names" usually deliver. The works I find tiresome and cliched were mostly written by 2nd or third tier composers, who are capable of a couple of high level works and then keep writing pale imitations of them.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Only by proxy, in a second-hand sense. Those don't count;


They may not count to you, but they sure count to me.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> A thread devoted to negative comments about musical works is a good topic? I doubt it.


I'm OK with it. There are two few topics, a lot that has been said already. A topic that raises some passions even in a negative way gets participation.

I don't want to see things get too negative, but at least it's individual works being criticized and not composers' entire outputs.

Everybody has pet peeves they want to get off their chests regarding works they just don't like.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Open Book said:


> Wow, I love horns. The French horn is used nowhere else but in classical music, and its sound is unique. It can be haunting in a way that no other brass instrument is.
> 
> Beethoven makes great use of horns in his 7th symphony. Do you dislike that?


You should start a thread called "Horn Lovers Unite! (A Celebration Of The Noble Horn)"


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Open Book said:


> Interesting comment. I find that "the brand names" usually deliver. The works I find tiresome and cliched were mostly written by 2nd or third tier composers, who are capable of a couple of high level works and then keep writing pale imitations of them.


I see what you mean but "juicy-bad" works by the likes of Mozart and Beethoven are much more exciting.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> Well, if you can't trust a brand name like Schubert, what _can_ you trust? Your ears?


So long as they don't blind you.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> They may not count to you, but they sure count to me.


That's because you take criticisms of composers you like way too seriously. If the critic is not actually quoting your own words back on you, you really have no grounds for a legitimate complaint.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Waldesnacht said:


> So long as they don't blind you.


Oh, that's clever, _ver_y clever!

Back on topic: Brahms Academic Festival Overture: reeks hard. (Please Help Me To Like Brahms)


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> That's because you take criticisms of composers you like way too seriously.


No, it's because I've seen worthy threads blow up through negative comments that ushered in full-scale hostilities.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> No, it's because I've seen worthy threads blow up through negative comments that ushered in full-scale hostilities.


Are you referring to a certain piece you like? Or are you simply "arguing on principle?" The latter is a much more difficult task, albeit much more noble and admirable.

BTW, Paul Best's temporary ban will be lifted on July 16, that's sometime on Tuesday. Let's all welcome him back when that time comes, because we love and value all our members here in the TC family!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> No, it's because I've seen worthy threads blow up through negative comments that ushered in full-scale hostilities.


Yeah, but the premise of this thread is _already negative,_ so if it _does_ blow up, it will be caused by members who are _advocating positivity!_ That would be ironic, wouldn''t it?


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> Oh, that's clever, _ver_y clever!
> 
> Back on topic: Brahms Academic Festival Overture: reeks hard. (Please Help Me To Like Brahms)


Here is a spirited rendition:






It should be noted that it's not a work of a very serious character, but it's certainly well-composed and more accessible than the symphonies.


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> Thread duty: Rachmaninoff's Vespers. What's the big deal?


What's the big deal? It's one of the most sincerely moving pieces of music I know! That's enough for me.


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

Ferneyhough's _La Terre est Un Homme_. I had a friend recall his experience hearing it live, and he recommended it to me, so I did have some expectations. Unfortunately I was not left sharing his enthusiasm. I couldn't shake that the dynamic level changed minimally throughout, so it starts and ends like a grating shout with only a couple detectable drops in the jarring loudness. It did very briefly conjure an image in my mind, of some kind of wild cat scrambling down a dark mountain after it lost its footing, and luckily some of the sounds happened to match his claws scraping the rock... but the image got boring relatively quickly because nothing changed. It's not long before you start staring into space because the music just keeps shouting the same chaos at you for thirteen minutes. Way too static. The random string plucking and trills/tremolos in the rest of the instruments just lost its effect after that amount of time. You could appreciate the sheer size of the orchestration, I guess, but sitting and listening to the result it's just too easy to become indifferent to whatever pluck or spasm of sound might come next.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Littlephrase1913 said:


> What's the big deal? It's one of the most sincerely moving pieces of music I know! That's enough for me.


Yes, but didn't you say on another thread that you were preparing for the priesthood? :lol:


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Minor Sixthist said:


> Ferneyhough's _La Terre est Un Homme_. I had a friend recall his experience hearing it live, and he recommended it to me, so I did have some expectations. Unfortunately I was not left sharing his enthusiasm. I couldn't shake that the dynamic level changed minimally throughout, so it starts and ends like a grating shout with only a couple detectable drops in the jarring loudness. It did very briefly conjure an image in my mind, of some kind of wild cat scrambling down a dark mountain after it lost its footing, and luckily some of the sounds happened to match his claws scraping the rock... but the image got boring relatively quickly because nothing changed. It's not long before you start staring into space because the music just keeps shouting the same chaos at you for thirteen minutes. Way too static. The random string plucking and trills/tremolos in the rest of the instruments just lost its effect after that amount of time. You could appreciate the sheer size of the orchestration, I guess, but sitting and listening to the result it's just too easy to become indifferent to whatever pluck or spasm of sound might come next.


_Hey! What have you got against Ferneyhough? It's a good listen!_


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> Yes, but didn't you say on another thread that you were preparing for the priesthood? :lol:


Irrespective of my personal opinions about that calling, also that you apparently are referring to the wrong person, I think that the above post is just plain nasty and almost certainly qualifies as an ad-hom comment.


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> What have you got against Ferneyhough?


Read my comment! It was a loud annoying listen and I kept zoning out.


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

Every work that I've ever heard by both Philip Glass and Steve Reich.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Handel continues to be a frustratingly top heavy composer for me. The 15 or 20 percent of his work that I love gives me the "voice of God" fervor that Mozart is supposed to, and is likely my favorite music. The other 85 to 80 percent I still like well enough, but sounds just a teeny bit like a genius running from his deadlines on autopilot because he knows he can get away with it. I go into each lesser known opera and oratorio ready to discover an underrated companion to Messiah in need of a revival, and I usually leave with a couple arias here and one chorus there, and no real desire to ever hear the rest again. 

I suppose it's a bit unfair that if I like 40 minutes of a non-classical musician or band's albums I'll praise them for consistency and consider myself a huge fan, but if Handel leaves me a comparative mountain of spiritually uplifting art I'll call him "frustrating" because I don't like the rest of the mountain range.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2019)

Minor Sixthist said:


> Read my comment! It was a loud annoying listen and I kept zoning out.


Having heard the work on YT I have to admit that it's not to my taste and never likely to be. Your vivid description of how it sounds is pretty accurate. Strange as it may seem, some parts of it bore a vague resemblance to Stravinsky's ballet music, which of course is in a totally different quality league.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I've tried two different recordings, and it just won't click for me. I can appreciate it as daringly modern for 1830. I just can't ever crave listening to it.


Same with me for most of my life. I bought Davis, Munch and several others included in mega-boxes; none of them grabbed me. Then I bought the Mercury box and listened to Paray. Wow!!


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

jegreenwood said:


> Same with me for most of my life. I bought Davis, Munch and several others included in mega-boxes; none of them grabbed me. Then I bought the Mercury box and listened to Paray. Wow!!


That's it: Paray is the top with this symphony (and many others too)


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Someone nominated this in one of the game threads. Cliche without inspiration. The composer put on his "spooky, mystical movie music" hat and wrote something. There are so many works like this.
I have heard piano works by this composer that are better, though.


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