# Dieterich Buxtehude



## HarpsichordConcerto

*My Music Mini-Marathon: Buxtehude*

I had a mini-marathon listening session over the weekend (it was a public holiday on Monday too), of the music of Dietrich Buxtehude (c.1637 - 1707). DB was a mid-Baroque composer who wrote most of his music in Protestant Germany. It was interesting because the vocal church pieces reminded me of early Bach cantatas. Scholars and performers agree on the influence DB had on Bach and late German Baroque in general. (Indeed, the young Bach supposedly hiked over 400km/250 miles to see & hear DB in 1705. DB was lucky enough to have also met the young Handel and Mattheson in 1703).

Eleven CD's I bought recently on a Naxos sale. (All performed on period instruments/historically informed performances). Vocal/church music, keyboard music (harpsichord, of course) and instrumental pieces.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

... continued. Anybody here care to comment on Buxtehude's music?


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## nefigah

I quite like what I've heard of his organ works; I'm not familiar with any of his other music. Unfortunately I'm not totally satisfied with the couple of renditions I have on disc, but I've since found out that it's just the organist I need to avoid (all of his interpretations seem to rub me the wrong way). I need to get around to checking him out more fully...

I bet Krummhorn could comment on him too


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## HarpsichordConcerto

nefigah said:


> I quite like what I've heard of his organ works; I'm not familiar with any of his other music. Unfortunately I'm not totally satisfied with the couple of renditions I have on disc, but I've since found out that it's just the organist I need to avoid (all of his interpretations seem to rub me the wrong way). I need to get around to checking him out more fully...
> 
> I bet Krummhorn could comment on him too


I did not buy the Buxtehude organ music issued in 7 CD volumes by Naxos, deciding to save that for sometime in the future. Are you referring to those?

The discs above were fine. The 3rd CD in my post #1 with _La Capricciosa_ was interesting: an aria with 32 variations. Just like Bach's _Goldberg Variation_ (published a few decades later), it started with an aria, then came the 32 variations of the opening aria. There is little doubt that Bach must have studied or was at least familiar with _La Capricciosa_.


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## Krummhorn

nefigah said:


> I quite like what I've heard of his organ works; I'm not familiar with any of his other music. Unfortunately I'm not totally satisfied with the couple of renditions I have on disc, but I've since found out that it's just the organist I need to avoid (all of his interpretations seem to rub me the wrong way). I need to get around to checking him out more fully...
> 
> I bet Krummhorn could comment on him too


I too have great appreciation for Buxtehude's organ works, and have performed many of his compositions either in concert or as service music in church. Guess I'm somewhat partial to him, considering my Danish ancestry and all.


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## nefigah

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I did not buy the Buxtehude organ music issued in 7 CD volumes by Naxos, deciding to save that for sometime in the future. Are you referring to those?


Oh, no; I haven't heard the Naxos ones--I was referring to Ton Koopman's. (He's just not my style... very energetic, though!)

La Capricciosa sounds interesting! How does it compare to the Goldbergs?


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## HarpsichordConcerto

nefigah said:


> Oh, no; I haven't heard the Naxos ones--I was referring to Ton Koopman's. (He's just not my style... very energetic, though!)
> 
> La Capricciosa sounds interesting! How does it compare to the Goldbergs?


Hi nefigah,

_La Capricciosa_ is interesting in the way it probably stimulated Bach's creativity, and offered Bach a model to study on. As a piece of music, it was interesting to listen to. I feel unfair to compare it with the mighty _Goldberg Variations_ of course, for example, the opening aria of the _Goldberg Variations_ is one of my favourite melodies of all time. But it was nicely played on the harpsichord, crunching away.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I actually quite enjoy Buxtehude... who I have been exploring as part of an effort to deepen my collection of Baroque music. I purchased the following discs... all of which I found quite marvelous:




























Contrary to our esteemed administrator, Krummhorn, I found the Ton Koopman recordings to be the strongest of all... albeit these are his choral works... not organ compositions. Nevertheless, I plan to purchase some of Koopman's recordings of Buxtehude's organ works as well.


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## Sid James

His sacred work _Membra Jesu Nostri_ has been in my sights for a while, since I've enjoyed Monteverdi's & Gesualdo's vocal works, I also want to get into Buxtehude soon...


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## tdc

Previously having only been familiarized with some of this composers various organ works, I just stumbled across this:






I found this quite impressive, and was curious as to whether or not there are any fans of this composer among the posters of TC that may have any further suggestions or general information on this great and influential composer!

:tiphat:


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## StlukesguildOhio

I can't name specific works... but I quite enjoy Buxtehude's cantatas. As I ended up opting for Gardiner and Suzuki for Bach, I have gone with Koopman in a big way for his choral works and his organ pieces. If you are on Spotify you can listen to a great majority of his works there. I especially like Suzuki's performance of his organ works.


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## Sid James

He was basically "the Danish Bach."

I've mainly heard his organ works, which I like heaps. I've got some recordings by Wolfgang Rubsam, Helmut Walcha & others. It's music that I like to kind of chill out to, but it also has real substance, eg. the weaving of the contrapuntal lines, etc. On the whole he's less heavy than J.S. Bach in this area, & I like him more for that reason. When I have time, I'll check out that choral work you posted, it's been on my backburner for a while now...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I bought a pile of Naxos CDs featuring just Buxtehude's music (they went on sale at that time). JS Bach was familiar with Buxtehude's music and I think listening and reading up on pre-Bach German Baroque composers and their music really brings one to appreciate Bach's music even more, and also realise that career wise, Bach was really just like many others of his contemporaries who chose a more local church oriented path. Buxtehude's music (both vocal and instrumental) was German Baroque inside out, and the influence of the church was pervasive throughout.

I also have other CDs by other period instrument groups. _Membra Jesu nostri_, BuxWV75 seems to be a standard Buxtehude favourite, juding by the number of recordings of it around compared with his other works. I also have the Bach Collegium Japan/Suzuki version, which I can recommend.


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## StlukesguildOhio

JS Bach was familiar with Buxtehude's music and I think listening and reading up on pre-Bach German Baroque composers and their music really brings one to appreciate Bach's music even more...

Yes. I was playing Bach's organ works in my studio this summer under the ideal conditions: LOUD AS HELL. After listening to the great Passacaglia and Fugue my studio mate exclaimed, "What the f*** was he thinking?!" He was absolutely stunned by the audacity of this great wall of sound churning endlessly through the same hypnotic theme. Bach has the knack for repeatedly building upon a pre-existing form and taking it to an absolutely unheard-of... unimaginable height. Just as with Handel and Brahms and a number of other composers, it is possible to become complacent about Bach... and even dismiss him as the overly stodgy religious composer... and yet he can be so incredibly audacious... and then turn around and toss off the most exquisitely beautiful passages or arias in one of his hundreds of cantatas... and do this again and again and again...






Not to bury our poor Mr. Buxtehude:


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## Sid James

To add to what I said before, I quite like Buxtehude's chaconnes, like THIS one. The harmonies & colours are kind of light, it's not exactly easy listening, but compared to some others it is lighter. Maybe it's with being Danish or in the North German area, perhaps there were some links to places further West like France, the organ music of which does tend to be more delicate & less full-on than J.S. Bach, etc...


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## Manxfeeder

Jos Van Immerseel's cantata recording is outstanding.


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## Llyranor

I haven't heard much about Buxtehude, but I quite like this cantata


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## neoshredder

Listening to his Organ works right now. Very nice. Probably my favorite composer in the early part of Baroque. His Sonatas are nice as well. Heard one of them on youtube.


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## Llyranor

Oh wow, this is really amazing. Buxtehude is going on my list of composers I need to get to know more.


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## Krummhorn

I've always enjoyed the organ works of Buxtehude, possibly because I am of Danish heritage, but the music is very agreeable to my senses, both as a listener and as a player. 

I played a Ciaconna (e minor) just last weekend for one of my church services.


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## Crudblud

I've been really enjoying the Buxtehude organ set by Walter Kraft. In time his may be a body of keyboard works I'd put on par with Scarlatti.


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## clavichorder

I've played a movement from one of his harpsichord suites. Its quite unpredictable music and full and satisfying as well. But sometimes a little strange, which in my book is good.


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## Renaissance

I love Buxtehude's cantatas, especially "Jesu membra nostri". I can barely find something from Bach's to top it up. And of course, the Organ works, highly contrapunctual pieces and with a "softer" feeling overall. I still have much to discover from this master.


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## Llyranor

Does anyone have any recommendations for recordings of some of his chamber works?


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## hocket

Llyranor said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for recordings of some of his chamber works?


There's a three disc complete set by John Holloway and chums on Naxos. Elizabeth Wallfisch recorded the first seven sonatas too. Ton Koopman has recorded a complete works so naturally they'll be there too. I've also got a selection along with some Pachelbel by Musica Antiqua Koln.

Anyway, the Holloway set is excellent and I'd suggest you go with that.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Damn! Holloway and crew doing Buxtehude on Naxos?! Thanks for the heads up on that one. I've just put in my order. As can be seen from my list of favorite composers on the 110 Favorite Composers thread, Buxtehude is among my favorites. I have a good amount of his choral music, organ and other keyboard works... but from what I could sample on Amazon, these are the usual top-notch performances that Holloway and friends have applied across the board to any number of other Baroque masters. Thanks again!

:tiphat:


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## hocket

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Damn! Holloway and crew doing Buxtehude on Naxos?! Thanks for the heads up on that one. I've just put in my order. As can be seen from my list of favorite composers on the 110 Favorite Composers thread, Buxtehude is among my favorites. I have a good amount of his choral music, organ and other keyboard works... but from what I could sample on Amazon, these are the usual top-notch performances that Holloway and friends have applied across the board to any number of other Baroque masters. Thanks again!
> 
> :tiphat:


In that case I hope you'll be pleased. The sound isn't as stellar as on some of Holloway's other recordings (where it's usually spectacular) but the playing is excellent as you'd expect (with Lars Ulrik Mortensen and Jaap Ter Linden it's something of an Early Music supergroup!). The sound could probably benefit from being a little warmer, but it's far from being a problem. It's comfortably the best set IMO and has the advantage of being complete.


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## neoshredder

Great Composer. Love his Organ works.


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## ptr

Buxtehude is one of my favourite Baroque composer any side of JSB, I strongly recommend the outstanding German organist Harald Vogel's recordings of the "complete" organ works on MDG (*Review*). Vogel is one of the finest Baroque Organ interpreters, I heard him live several times when I lived in Gothenburg, he has a lightness and unpredictability that makes you believe that Your hear the music for the first time!

This disc of Buxtehude's "Abendmusik" cantatas is also very good!









Göteborg Baroque Arts Ensemble u. Magnus Kjellson, organ

The Holloway discs on Naxos mentioned earlier in this tread was originally released by DaCapo in Denmark (who has a licensing deal with Naxos)..

/ptr


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## southwood

Julia Brown and Rubsam on Naxos are good.



Krummhorn said:


> I've always enjoyed the organ works of Buxtehude, possibly because I am of Danish heritage, but the music is very agreeable to my senses, both as a listener and as a player.
> 
> I played a Ciaconna (e minor) just last weekend for one of my church services.


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## tdc

I was blown away by the sound quality and performance of Buxtehude's _Membra Jesu Nostri_ done by the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis. I stumbled across it on youtube, and it inspired me to start this thread. Since that time I have come to gain an even deeper appreciation of Buxtehude's music, and this particular work is still my personal favorite. After recently sampling other versions of it, I realized how magical I feel this performance is so I decided to go ahead and purchase the DvD.










Unfortunately the link I posted of the work in the OP has been taken down and there is not a good sound quality version of that interpretation on youtube anymore. This version is also quite good though.


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## clavichorder

Buxtehude has been a gateway into Bach for me, playing his suites on the keyboard last summer and then playing a little of Bach's French suites helped me to think of Bach as being like 64 bit to Buxtehude's 32 bit but that they are both great.


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## science

Let's bump this because I want to get more Buxtehude recommendations.


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## opus111

You will most definitely want to hunt down either or both of the first two volumes of the complete chamber music on Naxos -- absolute gems if you're a fan of Baroque music. Both CDs consist of sonatas for violin (John Holloway), Viola da gamba (Jaap ter Linden) and harpsichord (Lars Ulrik Mortensen) -- what a first-rate line-up! 

These discs were previously released on Dacapo in the mid-nineties, but Naxos later picked up the licensing rights. Pick up the first volume as a great representation of Buxtehude and Baroque Chamber music, both. The Naxos recording of Membra Jesu Nostri is also great, but I always find myself inching back to the Naxos recordings of the chamber sonatas -- and have purchased many copies of them to hand out as Xmas and birthday gifts, no less!


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## Mandryka

science said:


> Let's bump this because I want to get more Buxtehude recommendations.


For the organ music, I really think Harald Vogel is the place to start, for just the right combination of stylus fantasticus and spirituality.


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## GioCar

I heartily recommend this album










A selection of some of his most beautiful organ works played by Masaaki Suzuki on two wonderful instruments.
An excellent introduction to his music, very much enjoyable also by who is already familiar with his organ music.
I've discovered this CD by chance, and I fell in love with it.


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## Biwa

tdc said:


> *I was blown away by the sound quality and performance of Buxtehude's Membra Jesu Nostri done by the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis.*I stumbled across it on youtube, and it inspired me to start this thread. Since that time I have come to gain an even deeper appreciation of Buxtehude's music, and this particular work is still my personal favorite. After recently sampling other versions of it, I realized how magical I feel this performance is so I decided to go ahead and purchase the DvD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the link I posted of the work in the OP has been taken down and there is not a good sound quality version of that interpretation on youtube anymore. This version is also quite good though.


I second this recommendation. Schola Cantorum Basiliensis's DVD performance/recording is excellent!


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## Biwa

GioCar said:


> I heartily recommend this album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A selection of some of his most beautiful organ works played by Masaaki Suzuki on two wonderful instruments.
> An excellent introduction to his music, very much enjoyable also by who is already familiar with his organ music.
> I've discovered this CD by chance, and I fell in love with it.


Masaaki Suzuki's cycle of J.S.Bach's Cantatas on BIS is a real treasure as well.


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## Mandryka

GioCar said:


> I heartily recommend this album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A selection of some of his most beautiful organ works played by Masaaki Suzuki on two wonderful instruments.
> An excellent introduction to his music, very much enjoyable also by who is already familiar with his organ music.
> I've discovered this CD by chance, and I fell in love with it.


Yes I agree with this.


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## GioCar

GioCar said:


> I heartily recommend this album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A selection of some of his most beautiful organ works played by Masaaki Suzuki on two wonderful instruments.
> An excellent introduction to his music, very much enjoyable also by who is already familiar with his organ music.
> I've discovered this CD by chance, and I fell in love with it.


For some reason I wasn't able to paste the album cover.

Here it is


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## JSBach85

I enjoyed this topic so much, despite is about 2 years old. If I had to set up a top ten favourite composers, surely Buxtehude would be one of them, I really enjoy the Buxtehude works and also I have been collecting some recordings. I agree with the comments above and I also have the Seven Sonatas, Op.1 and Op.2 by Holloway, Jaap ter Linden and Lars Ulrik Mortensen, what a great trio!, in Naxos:



















I only own 3 recordings out of 29 or so of Koopman's Opera Omnia and I am thinking about getting the entire set in the future, would be outstanding to own the complete cantatas!. As for the cantatas cycle: Membra Jesu Nostri, BuxWV 75 I own 3 recordings: Veldhoven/Netherlands Bach Society ; Fasolis/Sonatori de la Gioiosa Marca ; Gardiner/The English Baroque Soloists and despite I am happy with them, I am also opened to your suggestions.

PS: Please, keep this alive!


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## Mandryka

I thought the sound quality on this recording by La Rêveuse was exceptional, like having them in front of you.


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## tdc

Here is a great playlist of Buxtehude organ works, Ulrik Spang-Hanssen organ.


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## JSBach85

tdc said:


> Here is a great playlist of Buxtehude organ works, Ulrik Spang-Hanssen organ.


Extraordinary! May somebody explain me if owns the set or a recording of Ulrik Spang-Hanssen, which organs are used?

In other words... those organs are historical organs from the period of Buxtehude (more or less)?


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## Mandryka

JSBach85 said:


> Extraordinary! May somebody explain me if owns the set or a recording of Ulrik Spang-Hanssen, which organs are used?
> 
> In other words... those organs are historical organs from the period of Buxtehude (more or less)?


Roskilde (parts of it C16)
Vichy St-Louis (C20 I think)
Norden (C17)
Noordbroek (C17)
Praesto (?)


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## JSBach85

I promised myself that the rest of this year and the following one I will be fully devoted to JS Bach and Buxtehude. There are certainly lots of recordings of both composers that worth listening in detail.

Unfortunately, there are not as much variety in Buxtehude recordings as you can find in recordings of Johann Sebastian Bach (several box sets of cantatas, organ works, Passions, ...). In this sense, I was really happy to know that there is such a great authority of Johann Sebastian Bach vocal and keyboard works devoted to start and finish a big project of Buxtehude works: Ton Koopman. After a Bach cantata series which occupied him for ten years, Ton Koopman started (2005) and completed (2014) a project known as Dieterich Buxtehude - Opera Omnia, to record the complete works of the German Baroque composer Dieterich Buxtehude and released on Challenge Records label. The complete box set is about 300 EUR but you can find each volume separately and getting the entire collection cheaper. There are 20 volumes comprising 29 cds including keyboard works (harpsichord, organ), chamber music and vocal works (mainly sacred cantatas and oratorios). I started this collection about 3 years ago but I only got 3 volumes and now I am committed to get all of them.

Recently, I got the second volume of harpsichord works: Opera Omnia VI, Harpsichord Works II because I still have the first volume. According to the booklet, 3 harpsichords were used for this recording: a flemish harpsichord after Ruckers, a flemish virginal after Ruckers and an italian harpsichord after Stefanini. It's just my opinion, however, but I like his recordings more than Mortensen in Naxos but I am also thinking about getting those in a far future. I like the contrast, dynamic and articulate performance of Ton Koopman. Fortunately the recording in two discs had been uploaded to youtube and I want to share them with you:




















To illustrate the importance of this project: Buxtehude - Opera Omnia, there is even a wikipedia page covering this topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieterich_Buxtehude_%E2%80%93_Opera_Omnia


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## Mandryka

Over the years I've come to think that Buxtehude's harpsichord music is so sweet that everyone sounds good in it, however I've got a special liking for Glen Wilson here.


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## JSBach85

The more I listen to Buxtehude harpsichord works, the more I like them and indeed Buxtehude is my favourite harpsichord composer. For this reason, in addition to Koopman recordings I got the following ones:



















The instrument used is a copy after Ruckers (the following is a sample picture of a Ruckers harpsichord)










Both recordings were previously issued on the DaCapo label, as well as those of chamber music mentioned in a previous post. The cover of the first one was taken from a contemporary painting of Buxtehude and fellow musician Johann Adam Reincken. Lars Ulrik Mortensen is a well known harpsichord player and conductor that offered several live concerts in Europe, not only covering instrumental baroque works (mainly composers from northern Europe) but also as conductor of some baroque operas (on period instruments). His playing is technically mastery, especially with the complexity of some works such as the opening Toccata in G major, BuxWV 165 and I appreciate that he avoids ornamentations, he plays harpsichord academically and accurately. The clear sound of the harpsichord is another point in his favor.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

Buxtehude is one of my favorite composers......this is my favorite video featuring his music:


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## JSBach85

I finally got the remaining volume of harpsichord works by Mortensen in Naxos, vol.2










I've just found an interesting information in Naxos label that summarizes the keyboard music in 17th century and Buxtehude keyboard works played by Mortensen in this recording:

_Keyboard music of the seventeenth century was not usually designated for particular instruments, and most of it could be played on organ, harpsichord, or clavichord. The manuscripts that transmit Buxtehude's keyboard music, however, generally restrict themselves to one of three types of music that can indeed be associated with particular instruments: free works such as praeludia and toccatas, many of them designated "pedaliter", and thus for organ; settings of German chorales, most of them also requiring the pedal; and a distinctly secular repertoire consisting of dance suites and variations, presumably for harpsichord. These boundaries are by no means rigid, however, and this series of recordings exploits such fluidity by drawing from all three genres for its programmes.

Nearly all of Buxtehude's suites and variations on secular tunes are preserved in a single Danish manuscript, now at the Royal Library in Copenhagen, which contains the history of the Ryge family reading in one direction and a collection of keyboard music, mainly by Buxtehude, in the other. The musical portion was probably copied early in the eighteenth century. The fact that two of the suites attributed to Buxtehude in this manuscript were actually composed by Nicolas-Antoine Lebègue underlines the stylistic similarity of the German keyboard suite to French models, particularly in the use of stile brisé, which the French clavecinistes had adapted from lute music. The standardisation of the movements to Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, and Gigue, however, can be credited to German composers.

The selection of suites offered here, in E minor, BuxWV 235, and G minor, BuxWV 242, presents the intimate, domestic aspect of Buxtehude's keyboard art. In each case the allemande is the weightiest element, "the proposition in a musical suite, from which the corrente, sarabande and gique [sic] flow as parts", in the words of Buxtehude's grandstudent Martin Heinrich Fuhrmann. Indeed, the openings of Buxtehude's correnti often follow the melodic contour of the allemande. The Ryge manuscript usually spells this movement "Courent" in a curious mixture of French and Italian; in fact Buxtehude usually follows the Italian corrente, with its lightly running quaver motion, rather than the more subtle French courante. Fuhrmann characterizes the Sarabande as an "instrumental aria, usually eight measures, going slowly in triple", and this is the shortest and simplest movement of a Buxtehude suite. The gigues in Buxtehude's suites have a more contrapuntal texture than the other movements, but they are not strictly fugal, usually dissolving into homophony after a few entrances. It is through the gigue, however, that the dance makes itself most strongly felt in the other genres of Buxtehude's keyboard music.

Each of the two variation sets included here is grounded in dance rhythms. Courant Zimble, BuxWV 245, as its name implies, is a courante, shorter and simpler than those in the suites. Each of its eight variations is highly unified in its figuration. The set More Palatino, BuxWV 247, is based on a student drinking-song.

Buxtehude's chorale settings for keyboard are preserved mainly in manuscripts compiled by Johann Gottfried Walther, organist in Weimar and cousin of J. S. Bach. Although most of them require two manuals and pedal, a few do not, and there is no reason why they should be confined to the church organ. Buxtehude's manualiter setting of Nun lob, mein Seel, den Herren, BuxWV 215, follows the chorale in its lilting, triple metre.

Buxtehude's free keyboard works, those independent of a preexisting melody or dance pattern, are mainly transmitted in manuscripts that include both pedaliter and manualiter works. Buxtehude may have conceived his canzonas as teaching pieces; they are all manualiter works, and students most often practised on the clavichord or harpsichord. They are variously titled canzon, canzonet, or fuga and consist either of a single fugue (BuxWV 174) or of three related fugues (BuxWV 170) in the manner of the variation canzona inherited from Frescobaldi and Froberger. The gigue makes an appearance yet again as the second fugue of BuxWV 170 and as the sole fugue of BuxWV 174, one of Buxtehude's most engaging and popular fugues._

Abridged from a Note by Kerala Snyder, 1998

https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp?item_code=8.570580&catNum=570580&filetype=About%20this%20Recording&language=English


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## JosefinaHW

*If there were mountains, marmots and lots of snow I would move immediately to the Netherlands*.....

Buxtehude - The Netherlands Bach Society - Utrecht Early Music Festival - Classical Music Concert HD


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## tdc

Reading Christoph Wolff's book on J.S. Bach, I came across some interesting information on Buxtehude which increased my understanding and appreciation for his influence and musical contributions:

_...for Bach, Buxtehude then in his mid 60's signified a kind of father figure who anticipated the ideal of the autonomous composer, a category unheard of at the time. The bourgeois, liberal, and commercial atmosphere of the free imperial city of Lübeck provided Buxtehude with considerable flexibility in developing and realizing his various projects. Although he held the distinguished position of organist at St. Mary's, his overall activities were characterized by a display of artistic initiative combined with unusual managerial independence. Courtly service would not have permitted such free conduct. Buxtehude was able to develop his career as a virtuoso, to travel, and to surround himself with pupils. He regularly played public organ recitals in Lübeck, performing compositions of his own that set new standards of form, size, texture and character. He seized numerous opportunities for composing vocal works and, acting as his own impresario, organized and financed performances of evening concerts at his church.

...he conducted his office of organist in the style of a municipal capellmeister, thereby serving as a clear role model, most notably for Georg Philipp Telemann when he took a post in Hamburg and Bach when he moved to Leipzig.

...Buxtehude placed more emphasis on musical practice: rather than writing treatises, he demonstrated his contrapuntal sophistication in diverse practical applications, thus again showing the way for the Bach of The Well-Tempered Clavier and The Art of Fugue - that is, Bach the musical scholar.

...Buxtehude also involved himself in organology (the study of musical instruments) and was a widely recognized organ expert.

...(Buxtehude's) compositional orientation included a broad spectrum of styles and genres, incorporating retrospective as well as modern tendencies (showing aspects of Dutch, Hanseatic, English, French and Italian traditions in his music). Nearly all new genres of the seventeenth century can be found in his music: concerto, motet, chorale, aria and recitative in the vocal realm; toccata, prelude, fugue, ciaconna, suite, sonata, dance and variation in the instrumental._


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## tdc

What I find tragic is that all of Buxtehude's oratorios have been lost, these were large scale works that Bach would have had an opportunity to hear and because some of the librettos survived we can gain some insight into the scale and ambition of these works:
_
The two librettos indicate that the performances were of grandiose spectacle at St. Mary's church...The musical presentations included both large organs and featured several instrumental and vocal choirs positioned in different galleries; and the end, at least, of Castrum doloris had the entire congregation join in...The instrumental requirements as outlined in the librettos are particularly striking and were apparently without precedent or parallel. The intradas require two bands of trumpets and timpani, a ritornello "two choirs of horns and oboes" a sinfonia "twenty-five violins in unison", and a passacaglia "various instruments."_


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## JosefinaHW

tdc said:


> What I find tragic is that all of Buxtehude's oratorios have been lost, these were large scale works that Bach would have had an opportunity to hear and because some of the librettos survived we can gain some insight into the scale and ambition of these works:
> _
> The two librettos indicate that the performances were of grandiose spectacle at St. Mary's church...The musical presentations included both large organs and featured several instrumental and vocal choirs positioned in different galleries; and the end, at least, of Castrum doloris had the entire congregation join in...The instrumental requirements as outlined in the librettos are particularly striking and were apparently without precedent or parallel. The intradas require two bands of trumpets and timpani, a ritornello "two choirs of horns and oboes" a sinfonia "twenty-five violins in unison", and a passacaglia "various instruments."_


'Completely agree re/ the oratorios. I have a memory like a sieve and i'm not near my books, but didn't Bach arrive to hear/be enveloped  by the Christmas festivities at the Marionkirche? Castrum doloris doesn't sound like it was the Christmas Oratorio, though. TYVM for taking all the time to share those excerpts from one of Wolff's books. I will also share info. Re/ book I am reading re/ History of Choral Music later....


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## tdc

JosefinaHW said:


> 'Completely agree re/ the oratorios. I have a memory like a sieve and i'm not near my books, but didn't Bach arrive to hear/be enveloped  by the Christmas festivities at the Marionkirche? Castrum doloris doesn't sound like it was the Christmas Oratorio, though. TYVM for taking all the time to share those excerpts from one of Wolff's books. I will also share info. Re/ book I am reading re/ History of Choral Music later....


No problem, and your memory serves you well, Bach was exposed to two Buxtehude Oratorios in December of 1705, _ Castrum doloris_ BuxWV 134 and _Templum honoris_ BuxWV 135. It is quite possible that Bach was not just an audience member but a performing musician in the pieces.


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## JosefinaHW

tdc said:


> No problem, and your memory serves you well, Bach was exposed to two Buxtehude Oratorios in December of 1705, _ Castrum doloris_ BuxWV 134 and _Templum honoris_ BuxWV 135. It is quite possible that Bach was not just an audience member but a performing musician in the pieces.


You made my YEAR re/ the memory, tdc.  Yes, I see that BuxWV134 was not related to Christmas but to mourn the death of Leopold I and 135 was to honor the accession of Joseph I the previous May. Apparently they are also bother lost.


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## JosefinaHW

If he was one of the performing musicians that must have been a thrill for him, especially since I do remember that Buxtehude had attracted many excellent musicians. I wonder why Buxtehude did not invite him to stay on as a violinist? I know he was AWOL from his current employment and although it's often said he was scoping out Buxtehude's role as organist, I read again that he went there looking forward to hearing Buxtehude's Advent music. Had he met his future wife Barbara already? Maybe that's why he came home instead of staying there.....


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## JosefinaHW

Yes, according to Gardiner, he "had begun a liaison" with her right around the same time. Interesting.


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## JosefinaHW

The book that I referred to earlier is _A History of Western Choral Music Vol. 1_, Chester Awles, 2015. He goes into significant detail about how the various "German" and "Italian" composers of the 16th century influenced one another. It's not easy reading for me but I am learning from it and appreciate its value. Part of my problem was that I started with the Kindle version to save a buck--big mistake in this case; I later bought the paperback version.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0199361932/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

One very interesting point as it relates here is that Awles maintains that Gabrieli's influence on Schutz was not the sole foundation of German Baroque music, as is often implied. Awles argues that the "recruitment of Orlandus Lassus as Kapellmeister to the Bavarian court in Munich 1565 was true foundation of German Baroque music".


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## JosefinaHW

There are many different factors that were at play in all this, tdc. I am going to put together a diagram that makes sense to me and then I will share it with you here when I'm done. Maybe by Monday or earlier. In the meantime, let's put on some Lassus....


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## JosefinaHW

TDC: Just an update in case you were waiting. I didn't forget the diagram--I confused my topics. I've been reading several other books and articles re/ the history of the "oratiorio"--particularly it's early history: what a confusing, difficult topic! (I mixed that up with my reading re/ Buxtehude and other influences on Bach's cantatas.) No diagram of the history of the oratorio will be forthcoming anytime soon.


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## tdc

JosefinaHW said:


> TDC: Just an update in case you were waiting. I didn't forget the diagram--I confused my topics. I've been reading several other books and articles re/ the history of the "oratiorio"--particularly it's early history: what a confusing, difficult topic! (I mixed that up with my reading re/ Buxtehude and other influences on Bach's cantatas.) No diagram of the history of the oratorio will be forthcoming anytime soon.


No worries. 

Lassus being the foundation of German Baroque was an interesting suggestion...not sure if it is correct, but I listened to some Lassus yesterday and found it enjoyable.

I will say to my ears Schütz and Buxtehude sound like the foundation of the _North_ German Baroque sound, culminating in the music of J.S. Bach.


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## flamencosketches

I like what (very little) I've heard of Buxtehude's compositions. On an unrelated note, I've recently discovered the lautenwerk (lute-harpsichord) and am obsessed with its sound. Are there any recordings of Buxtehude's keyboard works performed on the lautenwerk? Is that even a HIP thing to do? I don't know whether that instrument was invented before or after his time. But I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone for my library :lol:


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## Mandryka

Noit that I know of, but I could well believe that on a good lute harpsichord Buxtehude's suites etc could sound good, there's a recording of The Goldberg Variations suites on a lautenwerk by Wolfgang Rubsam, and that sounds good -- The Goldberg Variations are similar to Buxtehude's La Capricciosa.


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## flamencosketches

Funny that you mention that. I'm a big fan of the Goldberg Variations and have actually for the past couple days been seeking out Rübsam's recent recording of it. I just listened to Glenn Gould's 1955 recording about an hour ago (obviously the complete other side of the spectrum from something like Rübsam's, but I am not one to mind the anachronism and I appreciate both styles). Anyway, I love what I've heard from Rübsam's Goldberg, he plays it like a Japanese lullaby. I just found it on Itunes for 8 bucks, may have to pull the trigger. 

But yes, hearing snippets of Rübsam playing Goldberg is what sparked my recent interest in this instrument. Obviously Buxtehude is not as widely recorded in as many different traditions as is Bach, but I'll look out for anything of his played on the lautenwerk if such a thing exists.


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## Anna Strobl

flamencosketches said:


> I like what (very little) I've heard of Buxtehude's compositions. On an unrelated note, I've recently discovered the lautenwerk (lute-harpsichord) and am obsessed with its sound. Are there any recordings of Buxtehude's keyboard works performed on the lautenwerk? Is that even a HIP thing to do? I don't know whether that instrument was invented before or after his time. But I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone for my library :lol:


I have an obsession with the lute-harpsichord as well.

Here's Gergely Sárközy doing Bach BWV 997 :






And a guy who builds some crazy good instruments along that line :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMSNLioy9gDyMs4w1oMsHcg


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## starthrower

Glad to learn about the Membra Jesu nostri vocal work. I love the sound of it and I'm going to pick up a recording. Probably the Koopman 2 disc re-issue on Erato. And I like the sound of the Purcell Quartet/Fretwork ensemble on Chandos. I'm currently enjoying the organ works by Spang-Hanssen.


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## Enthusiast

Stunning CD. Almost perfect. I didn't know much Buxtehude when I bought this, one of my favourite purchases of this year.









I enjoyed this one, too.


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## Janspe

I'm totally into Buxtehude's organ works at the moment: currently listening to the 2nd volume of Ton Koopman's traversal in the 4th entry of the magnificent _Opera omnia_ project. I'm so grateful to him that he recorded the complete works - makes it really easy to explore this great composers output!


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## Dimace

@ Enthusiast

Many years ago, we celebrated in Germany the XXX years from his birth. The German Posts made also a very special anniversary Briefmarke for the occasion. Dieterich was German but not 100%. He was born in Denmark or one of his parents was from there. I have works of him, but, till this moment, I have listened nothing. This thread gives me some motivation to start with him. A very nice WE, my dearest!


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## premont

Dimace said:


> @ Enthusiast
> 
> Many years ago, we celebrated in Germany the XXX years from his birth. The German Posts made also a very special anniversary Briefmarke for the occasion. Dieterich was German but not 100%. He was born in Denmark or one of his parents was from there. I have works of him, but, till this moment, I have listened nothing. This thread gives me some motivation to start with him. A very nice WE, my dearest!


Buxtehude's father was from Holstein, which by then was Danish. Diderik grew up in Helsingborg and Helsingør, which also by then were Danish. Even if he spent the larger part of his life in the Hansestadt Lübeck, he considered himself Danish during all his life.


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## Marc

premont said:


> Buxtehude's father was from Holstein, which by then was Danish. Diderik grew up in Helsingborg and Helsingør, which also by then were Danish. Even if he spent the larger part of his life in the Hansestadt Lübeck, he considered himself Danish during all his life.


Buxtehude is also the name of a town nearby Hamburg, iirc. So maybe his ancestors were German after all. But hey, who cares. His music is great. Vocal works, chamber music, keyboard works (especially for organ). I've been a fan since I first heard _Membra Jesu Nostri_, which is probably around 30 years ago. Learned to love his organ works mainly thanks to Harald Vogel and his recordings for MDG.


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## NLAdriaan

The complete Buxtehude set ( Opera Omnia /30 cds) by Ton Koopman, is now available at an attractive discount, for €156 in stead of €195:

https://www.challengerecords.com/products/156758158815.23

I just ordered mine and look forward to get to know the music better!


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## premont

Marc said:


> Buxtehude is also the name of a town nearby Hamburg, iirc. So maybe his ancestors were German after all. But hey, who cares. His music is great. Vocal works, chamber music, keyboard works (especially for organ). I've been a fan since I first heard _Membra Jesu Nostri_, which is probably around 30 years ago. Learned to love his organ works mainly thanks to Harald Vogel and his recordings for MDG.


I do not dispute whether some distant ancestor was German. The question was what Diderik himself was. But of course this has no importance for the music.


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## Marc

premont said:


> I do not dispute whether some distant ancestor was German. The question was what Diderik himself was. But of course this has no importance for the music.


Oops, small misunderstanding. I did not mean to suggest that you were disputing the ancestor things… just wanted to add some fun facts. (Followed by "hey, who cares". )

I.c. his music: it's funny, from time to time, at organ concerts, I meet and talk to Bach lovers. In general, they can be divided into 2 categories:
1. Those who love Bach and see him as a culmination of what was before.
2. Those who love Bach and see him as the starting point of 'modern' classical music, who was only rarely equalled.

With group 1, I can have fun sharing our love for the richness and variety of Buxtehude.
With group 2, I can have fun when they comment on Buxtehude "I don't understand one bit he is trying to say... it's utter chaos to me... give me Bach any time." :lol:


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## premont

Marc said:


> I.c. his music: it's funny, from time to time, at organ concerts, I meet and talk to Bach lovers. In general, they can be divided into 2 categories:
> 1. Those who love Bach and see him as a culmination of what was before.
> 2. Those who love Bach and see him as the starting point of 'modern' classical music, who was only rarely equalled.


Strange skisma, because I think both 1. and 2. are true of him.



Marc said:


> With group 2, I can have fun when they comment on Buxtehude "I don't understand one bit he is trying to say... it's utter chaos to me... give me Bach any time." :lol:


Also strange to me. In my teens, when I was a newcomer to Buxtehude's music and attended organ recitals and tried to play his keyboard suites on our piano, it never struck me, that the music was chaotic. On the contrary I saw it as formally rather strict.


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## Marc

premont said:


> Strange skisma, because I think both 1. and 2. are true of him.


Yes. I agree.
I had better made 3 groups then.



premont said:


> Also strange to me. In my teens, when I was a newcomer to Buxtehude's music and attended organ recitals and tried to play his keyboard suites on our piano, it never struck me, that the music was chaotic. On the contrary I saw it as formally rather strict.


No, I understand what they mean… it's the stylus phantasticus thing. Before they get into the piece, suddenly something 'completely different' is happening... and then it changes back again… et cetera. It's not about the strictness of those short episodes, it's the free and improvising character that strikes them as 'chaotic'.


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## erki

For me Buxtehude has been very nice and welcoming addition to Bach music. When you listen Bach a lot it gets kind of too familiar. Then if you put Buxtehude on it sounds suddenly fresh and fun. Maybe since Lübeck is by the sea you get a bit of that rawness and unexpected mixed in with all that Barocue music is about.


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## Gallus

Membra Jesu Nostri is an absolutely astonishing work. Truly great.


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## kfriegedank

Thought I would share his Cantata numbered BuxWV 33 in the catalogue, titled "Gott fähret auf mit Jauchzen", with the original manuscript, which are almost exclusively notated in Organ tablature, a lost art that will be incomprehensible to most people on this planet.


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## kfriegedank

I suppose it would be appropriate also to put here a playlist of Buxtehude score-videos I have arranged and uploaded over the years with performances for study + enjoyment. Many of these scores are a first on the website until I posted them.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLafpqg3vsKmdHVSRIxUpfU7rD21Mc1l4J


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## mikeh375

^^^^I'll check out your YT, it sounds interesting, I don't know much Buxtehude.


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## joen_cph

Gallus said:


> Membra Jesu Nostri is an absolutely astonishing work. Truly great.


I agree, the only work that I've come across so far that really interested me as a major one. The BIS recording with Suzuki is magical.


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## kfriegedank

mikeh375 said:


> ^^^^I'll check out your YT, it sounds interesting, I don't know much Buxtehude.


If you don't know much then you are in for a treat - J.S Bach learned a lot from him and travelled over 250 miles on foot just to meet him, so if that doesn't cement his reputation as one of the great of the Baroque (top 3, 5), then I don't know what does.


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## Helgi

JosefinaHW said:


> The book that I referred to earlier is _A History of Western Choral Music Vol. 1_, Chester Awles, 2015. He goes into significant detail about how the various "German" and "Italian" composers of the 16th century influenced one another. It's not easy reading for me but I am learning from it and appreciate its value. Part of my problem was that I started with the Kindle version to save a buck--big mistake in this case; I later bought the paperback version.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/0199361932/ref=rdr_ext_tmb
> 
> One very interesting point as it relates here is that Awles maintains that Gabrieli's influence on Schutz was not the sole foundation of German Baroque music, as is often implied. Awles argues that the "recruitment of Orlandus Lassus as Kapellmeister to the Bavarian court in Munich 1565 was true foundation of German Baroque music".


I realize I'm quoting a post from 2019, but I've been looking at these books and they're not cheap! Around €100 for each volume.

Were they that expensive when you bought them?


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## premont

Yes, books are indeed expensive. For musicological litterature of the kind you mention I use to pay between 75 Euro's and 150 Euro's. Paperback is cheaper and equally useful. If the author is German an edition in German often exists, which in some instances is cheaper than the English translation.


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## Helgi

I've bought my fair share of books over the years, but these are on a different level. Seems like serious academic literature = serious prices.


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## Ludwig Schon

What are the greatest recordings of Buxtehude’s organ works? 

I have the Harold Vogel set, but have heard good things about Winsemius’ recordings.

Any experts out there?


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## Ludwig Schon

Offt… I’ve just seen that Sarogin’s definitive 1960s recordings have been reissued by HM And uploaded to iTunes… 

There goes the next 6hrs of Lil Ludi’s life…


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## premont

Ludwig Schon said:


> What are the greatest recordings of Buxtehude’s organ works?


Harald Vogel
Ulrik Spang-Hanssen
Hans Davidsson
Bine Bryndorf
Rene Saorgin
Lionel Rogg
Bernard Foccroulle
Julia Brown 
Christopher Herrick 
Walter Kraft (dated sound but idiomatic musicianship)


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