# Anyone have Thielemann's new Beethoven cycle?



## Itullian

Wanted a review.............


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## Moscow-Mahler

I have heard only his Ninth. Which is very good.


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## GrosseFugue

No Itullian, but you got me really curious. One reviewer said that _*"Christian Thielemann should certainly remind people [of] Wilhelm Furtwängler."*_ Whoa. http://www.alsosprachanalyst.com/life-arts/beethoven-symphonies-cycle-christian-thielemann.html I don't know if that's hyperbole or being plain delusional.  But regardless I want to listen to it now.

Does look like a very nice set though in terms of presentation and deluxe hard-bound book, etc.

BTW, here are the reviews for the DVD set. They are off the hook:

*"Thielemann´s reading of the Beethoven symphonies stands heads and shoulders above the countless and mostly undistinguishable versions on offer." Die Presse

"The performances, the Vienna Philharmonic on top form, can't help sounding wonderful...oddly, it is the discussions that are the most enjoyable elements in this ambitious set." BBC Music Magazine * * */ *

"This is growling, mane-shaking Beethoven: a traditional approach to the music with full sound and large forces. Thielemann takes a precise yet lyrical approach to the music, as he discusses and demonstrates in the three hour-long accompanying musicological discussions." Classic FM Magazine * * * **

PS -- Yes, we need a TCer who has this set to weigh in! Please!


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## GrosseFugue

Ok, here's a link to a more substantial review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Nov11/Beethoven_Thielemann_703508.htm

This set, along with Pletnev's, are the ones of recent times that have me very interested. Great to see that new blood can still be infused into these warhorses.


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## GrosseFugue

Ok, since I'm the only one following up on this thread I will continue the trend. 

I just heard Thielemann's finale to the 3rd: 




And I have to say: OMG!

It rocks! This is balls-to-the-wall Beethoven. With a definite nod to the Old School. Christian truly puts his own stamp on it. After a thrilling opener just listen to how he slams on the brakes at *6:40* and REALLY milks this slow section (I guess it's the "poco andante"?). It makes for an even greater contrast to what went before and what's to come. This is the kind of stuff I would imagine only a Furtwangler or Mengelberg doing.

And check out *11:52* where Christian gently coaxes his players to take it eaaaasy before the thrilling climax. You gotta love how the guy's conducting with just the fingers of his left hand. He looks like Merlin weaving a spell. 

And I really dig the big, muscular sound of the VPO here. It's got serious WEIGHT to it. None of that fleet-footed wimpy stuff a'la' David Zinman and the like. It's clear the VPO are committed and sensitive to Christian's every direction.

So, yeah, I guess I'm gonna have to get this set for sure now. Darn it! And I was hoping to avoid getting another Beethoven cycle. 

PS -- Mikhail Pletnev is another guy who apparently does some really different and cool things with B. Some people say he's too "wacko." But other people's "wacko" is my genius. :lol:


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## tgtr0660

I've read bad reviews too, and Thielemann's Schumann cycle is quite horrendous so I'm scared to try it. Reviews needed.


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## Itullian

following............


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## Vaneyes

Itullian said:


> Wanted a review.............


Don't go near it. Sluggish tempi. I sampled a while back, and noted it on Current Listening.


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## Itullian

encouraging since i like Celibidache and Klemperer....................


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## Moscow-Mahler

I've only watched the Ninth (and the conversation between Thielemann and that famous old Austrian guy - forgot his name) on Austrian TV. It was not sluggish for me. In fact it was faster then my favourite Solti's famous recording with CSO (the first one). 

But I have not heard the other symphonies.


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## Moscow-Mahler

Well, I re-listened to the Ninth on youtube - and had mixed feelings. He should have gotten more angry and militant sound from die Wiener Philharmoniker. They sound too much beautiful sometime.

And on the Seventh he is too slow. 

Still, I hope someone will decribe his feelings of Thielemann's Die Frau ohne Shatten in the "Opera" sub-forum.


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## pentaquine

Agree, the 7 is way too slow……


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## Albert7

Is this on DVD or CD set or both? I was wondering which version was being discussed here.


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## Pugg

Itullian said:


> encouraging since i like Celibidache and Klemperer....................


Stay far away from Thielmann then .


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## Itullian

Pugg said:


> Stay far away from Thielmann then .


I need no more Beethoven cycles.


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## Pugg

Itullian said:


> I need no more Beethoven cycles.


Not even his first recording on DG from the '60


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## Itullian

Pugg said:


> Not even his first recording on DG from the '60


What 60s recording?


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## Pugg

Itullian said:


> What 60s recording?


Yep , this one;

​


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## Itullian

Pugg said:


> Yep , this one;
> 
> ​


Have it ....................


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## Pugg

Itullian said:


> Have it ....................


Sorry, I understood you only had the two you mentioned:tiphat:


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## Lord Lance

Read my review of The Third Symphony.


Otherwise, fine cycle. Recommend it. Not the best or the favorite but a very good one.


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## hpowders

Really now!! Does anyone really need a new Beethoven cycle? This music has been explored, re-explored, ad nauseam.

Why the heck don't these forces record something worthy that hasn't been recorded all that much?

Economics? You think there are a lot of folks ready to plunk coin down for their 11th complete Beethoven Symphony set?

How dull!


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## Albert7

Lord Lance said:


> Read my review of The Third Symphony.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, fine cycle. Recommend it. Not the best or the favorite but a very good one.


This makes me curious how much Celibadache recorded Beethoven in this case. I like my cycle slower for a focused reading. Kleiber is the best however.

Just found a CD link for Thielemans's cycle. Can't tell you how good it is however.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B005D4Y522/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426349882&sr=1-1&keywords=thielemann+beethoven


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## Becca

Itullian said:


> I need no more Beethoven cycles.


What does 'need' have to do with anything?? :lol:


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## Albert7

Becca said:


> What does 'need' have to do with anything?? :lol:


Agreed. You could never have enough Beethoven that is for sure.


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## Lord Lance

hpowders said:


> Really now!! Does anyone really need a new Beethoven cycle? This music has been explored, re-explored, ad nauseam.
> 
> Why the heck don't these forces record something worthy that hasn't been recorded all that much?
> 
> Economics? You think there are a lot of folks ready to plunk coin down for their 11th complete Beethoven Symphony set?
> 
> How dull!


11th? What is this? 2012? No, *25th*.


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## Albert7

Lord Lance said:


> 11th? What is this? 2012? No, *25th*.


The bear is clueless at this point... Not sure what straws the ursine listener is grasping at here.


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## Lord Lance

Albert7 said:


> The bear is clueless at this point... Not sure what straws the ursine listener is grasping at here.


If you could read the quote and find the 11th in it and compare it to my reply, you'd know what I mean.

However, your sentence doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


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## realdealblues

My biggest issue with Thielemann is that he reminds me of some pianists who can't keep the same tempo during loud or quiet passages. He slows down in quiet sections and speeds up in loud spots and nowhere in the score does it call for such fluctuations. I say pass...


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## Albert7

I think that I will get the Thielemann box set at some point soon.


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## AnotherSpin

I rate Thielemann very high in my personal list of conductors, so my opinion is biased (who's not?) 

Well, this set of is not stunning or shattering. Those, who accustomed to grandeur reading of Beethoven Symphonies will be most probably disappointed. Thielemann approach is somewhat neutral, it might be he leaves music speak by itself without hurry, excessive stress or articulating. Interpretation is rather pensive and dreamy. And that is what I like in this conductor. Sound quality is acceptable.


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## DiesIraeCX

I have Thielemann's Beethoven 7, 8, and 9 on Blu-ray with the Wiener Philharmoniker. I've also heard 4-6 on YouTube. The performances are definitely of high standard, no doubt about that. For those wondering, they are in the old-school, full-bodied Romantic vein of Furtwangler, fluctuating tempi and all. At time, Thielemann can be quite interventionist with his interpretations, for instance, in the Ninth, he takes these cringe worthy overly-long pauses that hinder the pulse and forward momentum. If you buy the Blu-ray, there are excellent and informative hour long videos for each symphony. Each video consists of a conversation between Thielemann and Joachim Kaiser (one of Germany's preeminent musicologists) in which they discuss other performances, different conductors, the music itself, Beethoven, Thielemann's performance, and Kaiser's thoughts. Thielemann discusses why he goes over those pauses, I'm not convinced. I still think Thielemann's Beethoven is worth hearing, he offers something a bit different and it's a welcome change after so many HIP Beethoven cycles.

*PS. Look for Thielemann's Egmont Overture on Beethoven, it's the best I've heard.*


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