# Idiots Guide to HIP?



## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

Yes, I'm the idiot and what I need is a simple guide to historically informed performance. All I know is that I prefer HIP and period instruments but would like to be able to understand the philosophy an ideas and sources behind it. Does anyone know of an article, documentary, podcast, easy to understand poster(lol!) for a musical ignoramus like myself? I've tried to understand music theory before but it's like pushing a snowball up a hill in Venezuela to me.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's a start for you, this pioneering paper from the start of the HIP period:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r.../3125608.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0VoIzyIaf7hQkBByZaJUbi


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

What I do is I focus on a specific period. A particular generation, even a particular locale if I can. For example, right now I am playing music by Mauro Giuliani written in Vienna between 1810 and 1825

I like to read history, so I will read about the political and social backdrop for the period. I like to know about the science and philosophy of the day. For example, in my 18th century Vienna music, I find that it is good to know about G.W.F. Hegel, and if I was wondering why I am running into all this nationalistic music, a quick browse of the history of the Napoleonic Era explains alot

Then I read about performance practices of the era, particularly for piano (even though I don't play piano) 

then I investigate the ornaments that are idiomatic to that era

then I take my piece and make a plan of what, from all that prep work, I want to try and do with the specific piece at hand and then I play

but the basic point is to understand the historical context and the performance practices of the time and bring all that with you when you put the score on your music stand. Its great fun, really....if you like that sort of thing


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Thurston Dart's pioneering book -- The Interpretation of Music -- can be an eye-opening look for the beginner at what kinds of questions interpreters of older music should ask themselves. Which gives you an idea of the basis for HIP.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> What I do is I focus on a specific period. A particular generation, even a particular locale if I can. For example, right now I am playing music by Mauro Giuliani written in Vienna between 1810 and 1825
> 
> I like to read history, so I will read about the political and social backdrop for the period. I like to know about the science and philosophy of the day. For example, in my 18th century Vienna music, I find that it is good to know about G.W.F. Hegel, and if I was wondering why I am running into all this nationalistic music, a quick browse of the history of the Napoleonic Era explains alot
> 
> ...


Very interesting indeed. My main interest lies in placing music within it's historical and social milieu and from sociohistorical point of view I'm pretty good at it. However, it's the actual music side where I struggle and I certainly do not play an instrument. Understanding performance practice and the technicalities of the period instrumentation is where I'm looking to improve.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> What I do is I focus on a specific period. A particular generation, even a particular locale if I can. For example, right now I am playing music by Mauro Giuliani written in Vienna between 1810 and 1825


If you live in the Boston area, my orchestra is playing the Guitar Concerto #1, Op. 30 on May 15...


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Are HIPsters allowed to have a piece of bone from a woolly mammoth on their bow? Just saw the cellist from the Doric quartet on utube worrying about this (although he had a modern cello...) Does this herald a move into prehistoric/period/modern fusion?


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Well, if you have a grasp of the social and historical setting, studying the period performance practice might be that missing link that helps you connect elements in the music to ideas and events in the society of the time.

For example, one of the Giuliani pieces I'm working with now is the Grand Rondo op 109. It is subtitled "La Chasse" and the theme is supposed to mimic the sound of the hunting horns. Now I happen to know that themes about nature were very romanticized in that time. So I think of the piece as not a musical depiction of a hunt, but a musical depiction of a _romanticized _ hunt. It is more like remembering a hunt in the past. Nevermind the mud, the rain, the blood, the getting the truck stuck in a ditch.....the story we tell of that hunt is the good part, the fun part, embellished for sure, and remembered that way. That is the emotional backdrop that I approach the piece with.

but sometimes the connection is more direct. Another example is a set of 12 military marches by Giuliani, one from each of the countries that had sent delegates to a military council held in Vienna that year. He was commissioned to write the set of military marches to honor the allied countries present. Simple enough. But that also means that he would have been using themes that the visiting generals would have recognized, too, so there are probably other settings of these marches out there. See where this goes?

any connections I can make from the piece at hand to other works or events of the day, or even simply the reason the work was commissioned in the first place....and all this goes into my interpretation. You might not hear all the connections when I play, but the more "deep background" I have on a piece, the more of a personal connection I feel and that does come out in the playing


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

classical yorkist said:


> Very interesting indeed. My main interest lies in placing music within it's historical and social milieu and from sociohistorical point of view I'm pretty good at it. However, it's the actual music side where I struggle and I certainly do not play an instrument. Understanding performance practice and the technicalities of the period instrumentation is where I'm looking to improve.


Re the technicalities, here's some notes by Bradley Lehman on harpsichord technique

http://www.glenngould.org/f_minor/msg06047.html

Re understanding performance practice, maybe consider buying Bruce Haynes' book called _The End of Early Music. _


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> If you live in the Boston area, my orchestra is playing the Guitar Concerto #1, Op. 30 on May 15...


no, I'm about an 8 hour drive south of you

the A major concerto is probably the most well known of the 4 he wrote.

but that's really cool that you guys are playing some Giuliani music. If you play strings, you know he started on cello as a child, so he writes nice string parts.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Oh, and here's a discussion of pulse in Frescobaldi by Andrew Lawrence King. It goes further than just Frescobaldi performance because what Frescobaldi says about how to read his scores is sometimes taken as a guide for how to interpret other composers.

https://andrewlawrenceking.com/2015/10/23/frescobaldi-rules-ok/


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> If you play strings, you know he started on cello as a child, so he writes nice string parts.


Giuliani actually played in the premiere of the Beethoven 7th (presumably as a cellist).


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

classical yorkist said:


> Very interesting indeed. My main interest lies in placing music within it's historical and social milieu and from sociohistorical point of view I'm pretty good at it. However, it's the actual music side where I struggle and I certainly do not play an instrument. Understanding performance practice and the technicalities of the period instrumentation is where I'm looking to improve.


Given your user name, I wonder if you can get to the York Early Music Festival - http://www.ncem.co.uk/yemf or the National Centre for Early Music - http://www.ncem.co.uk/?idno=1

The University has a good Baroque section https://www.york.ac.uk/music/about/ensembles/ube/
and http://eboracumbaroque.co.uk/ have an educational section.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> Giuliani actually played in the premiere of the Beethoven 7th (presumably as a cellist).


yes, he was good friends with Beethoven and Rossini. there is even a legend in the guitar community that Beethoven wrote a piece for guitar for his friend to play, but it has never turned up. Still, a guitar piece written by Beethoven...that's the kind of legends we like to have


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## Biffo (Mar 7, 2016)

A few years ago, in a different forum, Mandryka recommended to me a book by Nikolaus Harnoncourt. I recall it being called Early Music Today but now can't find any trace of it. There is a hideously expensive book called Baroque Music Today by Harnoncourt for sale on Amazon so perhaps my memory is defective. I borrowed a copy from my local library.

The book was a collection of essays from the mid-50s to the late 70s and explained Harnoncourt's philosophy and practice of what is now called 'historically informed performance'. He was very dogmatic in these essays and mellowed in later life but they are well worth reading if you can find the book. Ideas of HIP have moved on since then but Harnoncourt is always worth reading.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Biffo said:


> A few years ago, in a different forum, Mandryka recommended to me a book by Nikolaus Harnoncourt. I recall it being called Early Music Today but now can't find any trace of it. There is a hideously expensive book called Baroque Music Today by Harnoncourt for sale on Amazon so perhaps my memory is defective. I borrowed a copy from my local library.
> 
> The book was a collection of essays from the mid-50s to the late 70s and explained Harnoncourt's philosophy and practice of what is now called 'historically informed performance'. He was very dogmatic in these essays and mellowed in later life but they are well worth reading if you can find the book. *Ideas of HIP have moved on* since then but Harnoncourt is always worth reading.


Indeed, the variation in so-called HIP recordings of individual works has been quite startling, and remains so.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

Taggart said:


> Given your user name, I wonder if you can get to the York Early Music Festival - http://www.ncem.co.uk/yemf or the National Centre for Early Music - http://www.ncem.co.uk/?idno=1
> 
> The University has a good Baroque section https://www.york.ac.uk/music/about/ensembles/ube/
> and http://eboracumbaroque.co.uk/ have an educational section.


Yes, I am close and planning to go to some of the concerts this year.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Biffo said:


> A few years ago, in a different forum, Mandryka recommended to me a book by Nikolaus Harnoncourt. I recall it being called Early Music Today but now can't find any trace of it. There is a hideously expensive book called Baroque Music Today by Harnoncourt for sale on Amazon so perhaps my memory is defective. I borrowed a copy from my local library.
> 
> The book was a collection of essays from the mid-50s to the late 70s and explained Harnoncourt's philosophy and practice of what is now called 'historically informed performance'. He was very dogmatic in these essays and mellowed in later life but they are well worth reading if you can find the book. Ideas of HIP have moved on since then but Harnoncourt is always worth reading.


Probably this:

https://www.amazon.de/Musik-als-Kla...preST=_SY264_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Baroque-Mu...preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch


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