# Modern Christian Ballet



## regenmusic

I just googled "Christian Ballet" and a ton of stuff came up, even someone who studied with Martha Graham.. Anyone have any experience with this?


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## Tikoo Tuba

I wish Christian dance musics were word-less . Could a Christian feeling be expressed purely with dancers and orchestra ?


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## Manxfeeder

Tikoo Tuba said:


> I wish Christian dance musics were word-less . Could a Christian feeling be expressed purely with dancers and orchestra ?


I can see how using familiar images would obviate the need for words. But to express Christian feeling? That would be a challenge, to express how your faith has affected you only by how you move, unless the orchestra is playing something that outlines your faith, like Amazing Grace.


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## Manxfeeder

regenmusic said:


> I just googled "Christian Ballet" and a ton of stuff came up, even someone who studied with Martha Graham.. Anyone have any experience with this?


One thing that has become popular in churches is what they call praise dancing. I don't know if that rises to the level of ballet. But when it is done with sincerity, it is pretty effective.


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## Tikoo Tuba

Manxfeeder said:


> ...to express Christian feeling? That would be a challenge, to express how your faith has affected you only by how you move...


One modern dynamic to artfully advance will be the physical expression of family . People have had the circle dances for a long time now , and these have not required narrations such as We Are Worshipping Now .


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## DavidA

Unfortunately in our westernised form of Christianity that has been practiced, we have often failed to realise that it comes from the East where dancing would be part of the worship.


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## Tikoo Tuba

To be of family in peace , the beauty of god is received in unity and quiet astonishment . Personal ecstasies can seem annoying to witness , or is that entertainment ?


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## SixFootScowl

DavidA said:


> Unfortunately in our westernised form of Christianity that has been practiced, we have often failed to realise that it comes from the East where dancing would be part of the worship.


Oddly, I don't see anything of dancing in the New Testament early church as depicted in the Bible. So was dancing in the east a tradition the church in the east came up with? Then it would not follow that it is needed. And what would be the failure in not realizing that it (form of worship) came from the east. I assume by "form of Christianity" you mean the form or worship? Not a whole lot on form of worship is given in the Bible, which leads me to believe we have great freedom in how we conduct our worship services. Certainly prayer, song, thankfulness to God, and the Word of God would be part of it. Essentially it should be a joyful celebration of God's glory and what He has done for us.


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## starthrower

Christian Ballet, eh? I'm glad Bach's music isn't referred to as "Christian Classical".


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## Tikoo Tuba

Fritz Kobus said:


> Essentially it should be a joyful celebration of God's glory and what He has done for us.


 I suspect the doctrine of original sin can be a creativity problem . I'll think about it .


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## Larkenfield

I saw more references to Christian ballet companies rather than Christian ballets. But I would think that any ballet that somehow relates to certain traditional Christian values or settings might be considered one, but preferably without the name. I would include the innocence of the Nutcracker as possibly being related though only vaguely. I’ve never seen any performance promoted as a Christian ballet, but only as a ballet company. I would think that most composers are trying to reach the widest possible audience rather than being identified with a specific religion.


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## regenmusic

Tikoo Tuba said:


> To be of family in peace , the beauty of god is received in unity and quiet astonishment . Personal ecstasies can seem annoying to witness , or is that entertainment ?


I think it would be more like an choreography expressive of many dynamics and dimensions of the sacred experience and the journey of the soul leading to edification by grace, and the lessons that only salvation by grace can teach us.


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## Tikoo Tuba

_tis a gift to be simple , tis a gift to be free_

How would ballet interpret Copeland's orchestration ? Shaker-ly , I suppose . Men and women in Shaker society have a ritualized family Christian relationship yet with no children born to them . A Gift To Be Simple is their loving dance , a moon dance .


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## dismrwonderful

Beyond the Nutcracker it seems the dance companies are using music and concepts by Christian composers. There is much modern or contemporary Christian music that is only heard in Church or in companies like these. Seems legit.

Dan


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## Tikoo Tuba

Seems I hear modern Christian music sounding similar to a Disney cartoon movie tune . Oh , well . Devotion .


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## joen_cph

Well, the Christmas Oratorio has been made into a ballet
https://www.cmajor-entertainment.com/movie/j-s-bach-christmas-oratorio-ballet-by-john-neumeier-9663/

But:"_My choreography is not a religious undertaking. We perform to Bach's music, for a few hours unifying individuals of many different cultural and religious backgrounds. For me, the basic human values expressed through the choreography are always the most important thing. Therefore, in my ballet, Mary is known simply as 'the Mother' and Joseph as 'her Husband_'."

Doesn't seem kitschy either, luckily, judging from the pictures.


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## SixFootScowl

Tikoo Tuba said:


> Seems I hear modern Christian music sounding similar to a Disney cartoon movie tune . Oh , well . Devotion .


Christian contemporary music or CCM is repetitive and seems to be very similar musically to secular pop music.


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## regenmusic

The best Christian contemporary music was unaccepted, the artists made 100 or 300 copies of the records. Hipsters are finding these in thriftshops, branding them with the keyword XIAN, and they are sometimes selling for over $1500 an lp. Even non-religious people are paying that much. There is a huge book called The Archivist that lists some of them, but more are being discovered every month. You can hear a great playlist on YouTube by typing XIAN rock, or XIAN psych, for psychedelia.


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## SixFootScowl

regenmusic said:


> The best Christian contemporary music was unaccepted, the artists made 100 or 300 copies of the records. Hipsters are finding these in thriftshops, branding them with the keyword XIAN, and they are sometimes selling for over $1500 an lp. Even non-religious people are paying that much. There is a huge book called The Archivist that lists some of them, but more are being discovered every month. You can hear a great playlist on YouTube by typing XIAN rock, or XIAN psych, for psychedelia.


Wow, a treasure trove of awesome music with a 60s sound. Thanks for the tip. 
Here is a good one I just found on the You Tube XIAN search:


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## Tikoo Tuba

Yes , I think I would like Christian ballet as psychedelic . Last night I had a another dream of the Living Water . Perhaps I may imagine a flow of the springhead and the forever river as dance .


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## Larkenfield

I listen to everything... Amy Grant wrote a terrific number of inspired Christian hits with world-class production values and sound before she took her life in another direction unrelated to religion:






Christian music is so often denigrated because it seeks to be positive in outlook, inspirational, philosophical or religious, and worst "sin" of all, quotes the name of Jesus as representing the Christian faith. Its value is not understood by those disinterested in such areas that are not based on everyday materialism, sexual content, and cynicism. There's been a large market for Christian contemporary music for years and some of it is exceptionally good musically, sometimes just as good, IMO, as anything in commercial pop. But it's generally not as aggressive, and for good reason, because of the inspirational subject matter of most songs, perhaps related more to easy listening but seeking greater depth, sincerity, and something related to spiritual faith.


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## SiegendesLicht

joen_cph said:


> Well, the Christmas Oratorio has been made into a ballet
> https://www.cmajor-entertainment.com/movie/j-s-bach-christmas-oratorio-ballet-by-john-neumeier-9663/
> 
> St. Matthew's Passion as well, by the same John Neumeier:


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## Tikoo Tuba

Larkenfield said:


> ....the Christian faith. Its value is not understood by those disinterested in such areas that are not based on everyday materialism, sexual content, and cynicism.


l

The value of non-materialism and positive life is well understood . All have heard the Word .

Perhaps the return of Jesus will advance art . All the colors of heaven . Why not dance and play from that reality now ? hmm ? Reality , of course , is more and more inevitable .


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## Tikoo Tuba

I wonder what may be a strong story for a ballet of living water . In my mind-vision I see this beautiful pure water , and I wonder this is of a new creation understanding .


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## regenmusic

When was about 20, I wrote music for a Christian ballet based on the book of Ezekiel. There is some interesting visual imagery in that book and thought it would make a good ballet.


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## Tikoo Tuba

The wheel within a wheel sounds like a gyroscope . Spinning music - when the bell rings for dinner the band finds some way to gracefully end the song of circles happily , eh ?


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## Tikoo Tuba

Ballet of the Living Water

.
.
.
enter the New Jerusalem
what is it ?
a cube .
and within it is ?
only the peaceful may enter .
there-in is the springhead of the living water , flowing from a cylinder .
and this cube is a new understanding of physical ?
is now and will be .

the harmless may enter its gates even now .
what's to do there ?
play with the crystal river , which is as the tumble of a mountain stream over stones .
how are the people at play ?
huh ? pray and frolic , drink and weep 
the orchestra is there frreely
until the silence of dawn
then appears only the awakening and questions of little children , and caring for them
assemble the circle high noon , hand in hand , humming
and guide a parade of colorful , honored , now quiet in amazement children to the center
in one moment all silence will be broken with joy

drink of the good water beyond confusion
stay within the new city come from above or leave as you please .


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