# Leopold Antonin Kozeluch (1747 - 1818)



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

This rarely heard, or, even, unheard composer has written a ton of compositions. He is supposed to have taken over the position of Mozart at Prague, after the latter's death in 1792. I came across one of his works for the very first time - a sinfonia concertate. (In fact, I discovered this man only today.) The whole composition is very much Mozartean (Mozartean, as defined by a layman ). If I hadn't been told earlier, I would have guessed that this piece was due to Wolfgang. Even the first few notes sounds very much like one of the works of Mozart (or his contemporaries), although I'm not able to place my finger on it. You can listen to the clip at amazon. Has anyone else come across his works before (I'm quite sure Mr.Newman would have ), and are there any particular works of his that are 'must-hears'?


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

There is a good CD of his compositions played by the London Mozart players: http://www.amazon.com/Kozeluch-Symp...6407602?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1182861296&sr=1-1

It is not first rate music but it is enjoyable.

Of course, they all sound like Mozart since they lived at the same time.


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

Hi Op. 67,

Ah, yes !!!!!!! and so to Herr Kozeluch. You know what a 'can of worms' is in THAT subject ??

You are completely right. Not only can works by Kozeluch often sound like Mozart (as do various works by Myslivececk) but, in fact, the works of both Kozeluch and Myslivececk have rarely been appreciated or even studied in anything like the detail they deserve despite both men being literally as famous and as celebrated as Mozart was. And both friends and colleagues of Mozart.

To give but two examples. In a concert given in Paris by Maria von Paradis (which took place around 1785) a _'concerto by Kozeluch'_ was performed (according to a surviving report - though I do not have to hand the exact date - this around the same time (therefore) as a concerto was supposedly composed FOR von Paradis (according to Leopold Mozart ) by WA Mozart in Salzburg during the time of von Paradis's travels to Salzburg. The point is, of course, that virtually nobody on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) has heard much of Kozeluch's music despite the striking similarities in musical style to which you so accurately refer. At the very least, I encourage you and readers to look more closely at the life and career of this Jesuit educated musician, whose talents were very real and whose main city (Prague) plays such a huge role in the creation of Mozart's later career (real or supposed) including the writing of the first biography by Niemetscheck and of course visits there by Constanze Mozart after Mozart's death). I might also mention that, according to reports. a concerto by 'Mozart' premiered in Vienna was, within weeks, being performed in Prague by this very same Kozeluch. Sufficient reason, I think, for that area of research to be intensified. (And it's already under examination).

To say that many works by other composers sound Mozartean simply because they were contemporaries - is that enough ? The works of CPE Bach do not sound like Mozart. Nor those of Salieri. Or dozens of other contemporary composers. But Kozeluch.....now, there's a subject, for sure.

There is part of a very fine symphonia concertante from around 1770/80 on the link given by Mozart Forum -

http://www.mozartforum.com/MP3_FILES/L_Kozeluch_Sym_Concertante_RONDO_ALLEGRETTO.mp3

Regards

Regards


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

I acknowledge the fact that there are similarities between those composers. however, it is not enough to prove something. 

I’ve borrowed Kraus and Myslivececk’s works in the library of my town, in order to form my own opinion on that matter. I expected to find out Mozart in that music, and I dare say that I have been disappointed. 

I’ve found that Kraus’s music sounds more like Gluck’s, and Myslivececk's sounds hardly like Haydn.

likeness does not mean identical. Nevertheless, the topic is interesting.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

robert newman said:


> To say that many works by other composers sound Mozartean simply because they were contemporaries - is that enough ? The works of CPE Bach do not sound like Mozart. Nor those of Salieri. Or dozens of other contemporary composers. But Kozeluch.....now, there's a subject, for sure.
> 
> There is part of a very fine symphonia concertante from around 1770/80 on the link given by Mozart Forum -
> 
> http://www.mozartforum.com/MP3_FILES/L_Kozeluch_Sym_Concertante_RONDO_ALLEGRETTO.mp3


Thanks for the link.

It so happened that right before that sinf.conc., another piece for fortepiano and orchestra was being aired. The display on the receiver said it said Bach's Air on the G String. Now, sometimes, the display shows the wrong information. I haven't heard that Bach piece enough number of time to recognise it, so I assumed what was displayed was true. But later, I heard the 'signature' - the set of notes that clearly shows a piece is from the Classical era. I learnt afterwards that it was a concerto for fortepiano by Salieri.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

BTW, has anyone been able to pinpoint the Mozart/Haydn/Someone else composition which sounds similar to the one I linked to in my first post? (It's the beginning of the first movt.)


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Haydnian compositions show some late baroque traits. These traits are generally absent in later composers production (e.g. Mozart, before he had contact with Handel and Bach music).


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

Interesting that Kozeluch, in his time, was as highly regarded as Mozart. In fact, often more so. And it was Kozeluch who, within weeks of Mozart's death, had a notice published in the paper "Wiener Zeitung" dated 31st December 1791 (written in Latin), that says -

_AN INSCRIPTION FOR MOZARD'S TOMB

He who lies here as a child added to the wonders of the world and as a man surpassed Orpheus with his playing. Go on your way! And pray for his soul! 'K'. _

Notice Kozeluch refers to Mozart's childhood reputation and even credits Mozart with being a great pianist. (So too, by all accounts, was Kozeluch himself). No other dedicatory verses are known on Mozart's death but this. But it says nothing, in fact, of Mozart the mature composer. A strange omission, for sure. And why Latin ? What was Kozeluch trying to say ? Also, the name 'Mozard' (mispelled) was hardly ever used of Mozart in Vienna during the last 10 years of Mozart's life (1781-1791) though it was a not uncommon spelling of the surname in documents from Mozart's childhood and youth. Again, curious.


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

robert newman said:


> Interesting that Kozeluch, in his time, was as highly regarded as Mozart.


Not everybody agreed on that at the time. Haydn, for example.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

robert newman said:


> Interesting that Kozeluch, in his time, was as highly regarded as Mozart. In fact, often more so. And it was Kozeluch who, within weeks of Mozart's death, had a notice published in the paper "Wiener Zeitung" dated 31st December 1791 (written in Latin), that says -
> 
> _AN INSCRIPTION FOR MOZARD'S TOMB
> 
> ...


Is the letter K enough evidence to show that it was by Kozeluch?


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

True - by itself the letter 'K' does not prove Kozeluch was the author of those verses.

(Alnitak has a good point. In fact, Kozeluch (officially) was a rival to Mozart. He is portrayed as not liking Mozart and vice versa. But the same picture has been painted of Mozart and Abbe Georg Vogler. If a person did not like Mozart or anything connected with his reputation this was always portrayed as 'jealousy'. In actual fact Mozart was on very good terms with Kozeluch and with Abbe Georg Vogler. Things are never quite what they seem to be with Mozart). 

There are various other points - 

1. The fact that Mozart research has always seen these 1791 newspaper verses as having been posted by Kozeluch
2. 'K' was a writer fluent in Latin (as was Kozeluch)
3. As a Jesuit educated man (as Kozeluch was) these Latin verses about Mozart are of significance. Their significance includes the fact that the reforming Emperor Joseph 2nd had expressly ordered in writing some years before that Latin should no longer be used as the medium of communication/instruction within the Austrian Empire. That decree was issued in the early 1780's. And it began, finally, the use of German language in German speaking lands in schools, colleges and universities). Joseph had died the year before Mozart's own death). Joseph's successor, Leopold, was far more open to the Jesuits and (therefore) to the return of tradition. 

4. The Jesuit Order, who once dominated the academic and art world within Austria used only Latin as its medium of instruction up until their outright ban in 1773. The writer 'K' chose to write memorial verses to Mozart in Latin because, clearly, he was Jesuit educated and use of Latin in Vienna at that time (late 1791) in such verses was intended to show support of both the Jesuits and of Mozart. The signficance of such a strange notice (appearing as it did in a Vienna newspaper in December 1791 and, in fact, the only memorial verses ever published on Mozart around the time of his death) would not have been missed by anyone. Beyond reasonable doubt the poster was Kozeluch. 

Of course, one cannot de dogmatic about this. But in my view fairly, reasonably, Kozeluch was the poster.


----------



## Guest (Jun 28, 2007)

Perhaps, Mr K. was jealous of Mozart, and hated him secretly, in which case the inscription was a kind of epigram…


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

Yes Handel. Haydn and Mozart were bosom buddies, for sure !


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

robert newman said:


> Yes Handel. Haydn and Mozart were bosom buddies, for sure !


No I mean that Haydn was asked one time his opinion on some composers including Kozeluch and Mozart. He said that Kozeluch was elegant not more nor less. He was however entusiastic about Mozart.


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks Handel. I will find rather more enthusiastic comments on Kozeluch's music from Joseph Haydn (which I certainly know exist).

I note an online source saying that no less than 6 Kozeluch operas have all been lost. The famous English musicologist Charles Burney wrote in 1789 of Kozeluch's music being _'in general excellent, abounding with solidity, good taste, correct harmony; and the imitations of Haydn are less frequent than in any other master of that school'. _


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Just FYI. I came across this article on Kozeluch the other day.


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

robert newman said:


> Thanks Handel. I will find rather more enthusiastic comments on Kozeluch's music from Joseph Haydn (which I certainly know exist).
> 
> [/I]


I have no doubt that Haydn had good comments on Kozeluch. Actually, he usually generous with his comments. The only composer who he has criticize was Sammartini.


----------



## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Here is the allegro from a G minor symphony composed by Kozeluch : http://www.box.net/shared/n2mn8edslg


----------



## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks again Handel. Very interesting music (the G Minor Symphony). 

Yes. Haydn, got really angry when it was pointed out by Myslivececk and other contemporary writers that he (Haydn) owed a great debt to Sammartini and many others - a debt today better appreciated. After all, it was Sammartini, Luchesi, Boccherini and various others who had been supplying musical works to Esterhazy for years (many of them wrongly attributed to Haydn).


----------



## Morigan (Oct 16, 2006)

I've been listening to the 3 symphonies available on the Naxos database (I have unlimited access through my University network). They're great! Thanks Handel from bringing this up.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Kozeluch Piano Sonatas. Must be a recent release.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

opus67 said:


> Just FYI. I came across this article on Kozeluch the other day.


Perhaps this is the one from the same forum to which this old link won't work anymore? Very interesting. I'd need to look more into it. "Leopold Kozeluch" "The Real Salieri??""

http://www.mozartforum.com/Contemporary Pages/Kozeluch Contemp.htm


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A fascinating story, and some interesting insight into the musical politics of the day. Thanks!


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I first got to know Kozeluch from a collection of clarinet concertos, his beautiful concerto stood out from the Crusell and Krommer concertos on the same disc.
I would go as far to say it could almost be a rediscovered work by Mozart because of it's sheer quality.
I’ve since purchased some symphonies and not disappointed, must look into his chamber works.
I get the impression he’s getting the comeback he deserves.

In fact, after I post this I’m going to listen to that fine clarinet concerto again!


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Very interesting thread. I enjoyed the article from the Mozartforum too. There really is a treasure of Mozarteans on that site. The articles in the library were well worth a look.

This guy Newman. He's not Newman outta Seinfeld, is he?


----------



## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I was hoping for more recommendations from this thread, as Wikipedia did not see fit to give any compositions their own page. I started with the clarinet concerto no. 1, and the next thing I heard was the first piano concerto. Both were excellent works. Should I keep going with the concertos, or are there masterpieces to be found among his other genres?


----------



## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Kozeluch was no schlub. A number of pieces once attributed to Beethoven by musicologists have turned out to actually be by Kozeluch instead (e.g., 3 Pieces for Piano Four Hands WoO Anhang 8). The set of six string quartets WoO Anhang 2 may also be his work, though that attribution is far less certain.


----------



## John Kiunke (Mar 25, 2016)

I own two volumes of sonatas by him on the Barenreiter label. They are really fun to play, and they have a lot of "virtuoso" stuff in them, but it "lays so well in the hand" (as Dittersdorf says in his autobiography). I highly recommend it. And it's edited by Hogwood!


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I like his clarinet concertos, wonderful music.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Kozeluch seems to have been disliked by some -- Beethoven called him "Miserabilis." He once complained repeatedly about a Haydn piece to Mozart, saying he could have done much better. Mozart finally said (from memory): "You and I working together couldn't have written such a fine work."


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

All hearsay, nothing can prove things as no-one is no longer amongst us.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Pugg said:


> All hearsay, nothing can prove things as no-one is no longer amongst us.


Not really. Beethoven's comment is in an 1809 letter.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/c.asp?c=C6061


----------

