# The message of rap



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I'm going to do a bit of generalizing here, so sorry if that bugs you. My current roommate listens to nothing but rap music (not the good kind that some of my fellow TCers of introduced me to) and I've had to listen to this crap for a few months now.

I don't get what the message is supposed to be. The only thing I can gather is that the main message of most of the music he listens to is "I've got money and a big dick so I'm better than everyone else. And I may or may not have obtained my money illegally" Is there something I'm missing here or is that really the message that these rap guys wanna put out there. 

My roommate seems like a nice enough guy, I don't know why he would want to fill his head with that junk...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

It's rap, what else did you expect? I think that word was originally spelled with an initial "C" but it got lost somewhere along the way


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Exactly. Horrible music. Annoying beat. You forgot to add the part about the women and booze. But I'm not going to go too far in analying this music. As long as I don't have to hear it, I'm fine.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

Anyone that completely dismisses rap as a form is a moron, and more than likely has some pent-up racism that they try and package as 'I don't like it because it's all guns and hookers and fighting and crack and beamers'.

Still, on with the debate, gangsta rap was originated by, well, gangstas. Much like Polish common folk would compose music about Polish common folk, for Polish common folk to enjoy. Same concept, although it quickly became commercially viable, so developed a fan base outside of this community, much larger than the community itself, and through years and years it becomes a main theme of the genre and leads to many gangsta pretenders that had a pleasant upbringing talking about 'slanging gats and stuff'.

I, in general, disapprove of most of the gangsta rap thing, particularly from the last 10 years or so because of the rampant sexism, inciting of violence, idiotic butchery of language, homophobia and such. 

However, gangsta rap is by no stretch the spectrum of rap and it irks me when people tend to think it is (not aimed at you violadude!) It's a wonderful art form with fine exponents numbering in the hundreds. There's plenty of cliques, with your political guys (Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Sage Francis, Rage Against The Machine), the hippies (De La Soul, PM Dawn), the experimentalists (Handsome Boy Modeling School, Dr. Octagon, Vast Aire) and the message rappers (Grandmaster Flash, KRS One, Black Eyed Peas pre-Fergie).

Now, the 'message' you describe is indeed a poor one, but of a certain type of the genre. I listen to some of the older gangsta rap now and then, but it's entertainment. Some of my favourite films are Scarface, Pulp Fiction and Silence of the Lambs, does this mean i snort coke off a half eaten corpse whilst discussing foreign burger outlets? You don't have to practice the subject of art to be informed, amused, entertained, shocked or moved by it.

There's a similar level of talk about shady characters, murder and substance abuse on various Tom Waits albums, the only difference being he is typically the narrator rather than the participant, and i'd put them both under the 'entertainment' category, just like all other music.

And for the record, there's an enormous poster of the Notorious B.I.G on my wall. I am one to occasionally kick in the door waving a .44 and such.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Mesa said:


> Anyone that completely dismisses rap as a form is a moron, and more than likely has some pent-up racism that they try and package as 'I don't like it because it's all guns and hookers and fighting and crack and beamers'.


Hahaha! That's one of the most funnily ridiculous things I've read for a while (except for all the religious news I see). I always had my suspicions that you're probably racist, violadude.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Mesa said:


> Anyone that completely dismisses rap as a form is a moron, and more than likely has some pent-up racism that they try and package as 'I don't like it because it's all guns and hookers and fighting and crack and beamers'.
> 
> Still, on with the debate, gangsta rap was originated by, well, gangstas. Much like Polish common folk would compose music about Polish common folk, for Polish common folk to enjoy. Same concept, although it quickly became commercially viable, so developed a fan base outside of this community, much larger than the community itself, and through years and years it becomes a main theme of the genre and leads to many gangsta pretenders that had a pleasant upbringing talking about 'slanging gats and stuff'.
> 
> ...


Well those are some good points you make. I wasn't meaning to dismiss rap entirely...but unfortunately the only type my roommate listens to is the type that I mentioned that seems to be all about bragging about how great you are because of money, criminal behavior and "bitches." As a normal human being (or perhaps even an abnormal one), I can't imagine anyone being so egocentric so I was wondering if I was missing a deeper part of the message of this style of rap.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Hahaha! That's one of the most funnily ridiculous things I've read for a while (except for all the religious news I see). I always had my suspicions that you're probably racist, violadude.


Oh ya, I am. That's exactly why my second favorite music is Jazz, all them black folk....


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Actually, talking about racism that's something else I was thinking of. So many of these mainstream (mostly African American) rappers rap about criminal behavior and promiscuity and drug use and such in a seemingly positive light. Doesn't this promote a negative stereotype that is already somewhat prevalent in the attitudes of whites to blacks? It seems like many of these mainstream black rappers are doing a terrible disservice to their community at large, even though they claim to be "for black people."


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

As a hip-hop fan I can safely say no, there isn't a deeper meaning to any of the rap music you mention. It is absolutely terrible and is a disgrace to the music that I do enjoy. It is a reflection of the values of corporate America and the materialists that run rampant in the country, as well as the sheer avoidance to intellectual and logical thought. There is nothing redeeming for the majority of it and I will not pretend there is. I hold plenty of hip-hop in high esteem but I will not defend garbage. I refuse to acknowledge people's arguments on hip-hop also for the most part, due to the fact that they are born out of ignorance and are formed, typically, by people who get their worldview straight from mainstream America.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

Having met a fair share of small and mid-range 'gangsta' MCs through uni, i can confirm that some of them are indeed as vapid, stupid and egocentric as their material, but most of them are just trying to impress girls. It's the same thing as my brother being an atheist leftie such as i, but also being in a black metal 'church burning and gore' type band, because he enjoys the music. (A fair chunk of it is actually rather technical and well written stuff, and i recall a black metal version of some Paganini caprice by a group with a name to the effect of 'horse flesh ********* matricide' being quite remarkable).


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> As a hip-hop fan I can safely say no, there isn't a deeper meaning to any of the rap music you mention. It is absolutely terrible and is a disgrace to the music that I do enjoy. It is a reflection of the values of corporate America and the materialists that run rampant in the country, as well as the sheer avoidance to intellectual and logical thought. There is nothing redeeming for the majority of it and I will not pretend there is. I hold plenty of hip-hop in high esteem but I will not defend garbage. I refuse to acknowledge people's arguments on hip-hop also for the most part, due to the fact that they are born out of ignorance and are formed, typically, by people who get their worldview straight from mainstream America.


Well I am glad to hear there is good stuff out there. I have heard some of the good stuff I think...but it looks like I have more searching to do.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

So if I don't like rap, I'm racist? lol What great logic. I do like Rage Against the Machine. Rap with guitars I'm fine with for the most part. Rap with annoying beats is different though.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I think something has been lost in majority of gangster rap. In the early days when Gambino rap was just becoming popular you had rappers that intentionally made it cinematic, as if you were listening to Scarface in musical form, and they would form loose plots and actually talk about the positives and the negative aspects of that lifestyle. These days it is used as a go-to device to get popular, form "street cred", and form a status. Majority of them are not imaginative in any manner, which is quite sad. Although, some of them really did grow up in those environments and did do the things they claim. You have a lot of emcees who see it as a means to an end, or a way to make money and don't care about the art form. The corporate side completely ruined the art in my opinion. They first killed sampling, making it expensive for anybody to do except for corporations themselves. This basically formed a monopoly on rap music and as it gained popularity they completely watered it down for mainstream consumption to the point where it is nothing but cliche after cliche. There is a formula for it in order to sell. Rap artists on major labels do not have a lot of say in their music, for its either make the song cookie cuter as the label demands or get dropped. There are large psychological reasons why the rappers act as they do and it stems from the environment they grew up in and their attempts to escape it all while typically getting subpar educations. This is no way excludes hip-hop from being a valid form of music and I think a lot can be done with it but not too many people are willing to take it there. You, as well as I, are a Jazz lover. Think about how you feel about smooth jazz for a minute and then apply it to hip-hop and you'll have my opinion basically.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Mesa said:


> Having met a fair share of small and mid-range 'gangsta' MCs through uni, i can confirm that some of them are indeed as vapid, stupid and egocentric as their material, but most of them are just trying to impress girls.


Isn't the latter included in the former category of vapid and stupid?


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

"Completely dismisses rap as a form" =/= "Doesn't like rap"

I don't like most country music or opera, but i respect them as diverse and established forms.

^and Polednice, not exactly, how many intellectuals have done something daft to impress a prospective sexual partner?


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Mesa said:


> "Completely dismisses rap as a form" =/= "Doesn't like rap"
> 
> I don't like most country music or opera, but i respect them as diverse and established forms.


I don't like rap music, _and_ I don't respect it as a form. I'm still not racist. :tiphat:


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Too bad Mesa didn't actually call anybody who dismisses rap music a racist... just a moron.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Anyone that calls someone a moron for not liking rap is a moron.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

I was expecting at least 'I can't be racist, i have loads of black friends!' but actually received 'I know you are, you said you are, but what am i?'.

Result and a point well proved.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> Too bad Mesa didn't actually call anybody who dismisses rap music a racist... just a moron.


Mesa actually said, "moron ... and more than likely has some pent-up racism."



Mesa said:


> I was expecting at least 'I can't be racist, i have loads of black friends!' but actually received 'I know you are, you said you are, but what am i?'.
> 
> Result and a point well proved.


Result and point void. No one called you a racist. We just denied your silly assertion that a dislike of rap music probably points to racism.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Mesa said:


> ^and Polednice, not exactly, how many intellectuals have done something *daft* to impress a prospective sexual partner?


Daft = stupid, no? These are some impressive acrobatics!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

This thread degenerated quickly...


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

I hate to drag this to the point of redundancy, but the public got aware of rap, it got profitable, and now it's (generally) for the lowest common denominator. I'd say the same is true of traditional rock, and numerous electronic genres.

As dumb as gold-toothed rappers rapping about their cars and hos might seem, remember no matter where you look on our cultural spectrum, there are status symbols. Does classical music need expensive suits involved and all that fancy bourgeois crap, artistically speaking? Of course not.

And I think new hip-hop is trash, but I can understand a basically good guy appreciating an artist's beats, flow, wordplay, or whatever without considering the "message" too much.

Anyway, I stand by my statement that like most genres, it basically turned to crap, if we follow the popular narrative anyway. In the old stuff, even the rappers who engaged in that sort of macho braggadocio (that now dominates rap) did so with a certain degree of humor, wit, intelligence and consciousness.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

That it did... sounds like racism to me


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Mesa said:


> I was expecting at least 'I can't be racist, i have loads of black friends!'


Sorry, not everyone is a strawman stereotype created to validate your somewhat self-righteous attitude. I recommend coming in swingin' a bit less when OP is asking a legit question.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

violadude said:


> This thread degenerated quickly...


It's probably my fault, too. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood and particularly cannot stand stupidity today.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

All this name calling is really boring and unnecessary.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Let's instead discuss the familiarity with hip-hop of posters here and exactly why they dismiss it as a valid form.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> Let's instead discuss the familiarity with hip-hop of posters here and exactly why they dismiss it as a valid form.


OK, OK, I admit it! I'm racist! I hate black people. But, for fairness, I do also hate white people. After all, I am a pig.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

I think you and Mesa should settle this with a rap battle.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Polednice can be "The Notorious P.I.G." What does Mesa want to be called?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I know very little about rap. My initial response was, jokingly, that rap had replaced my favorite music, soul music (when I was young) so I wish it would go away. I always thought that rap was more about the lyrics and power for a group that has been long marginalized in society rather than the music.

The issue of racism is interesting. I have some sympathy for Mesa's comment about racism, but I would state it differently. To the extent that groups of people respond to certain music with _excessive_ shows of displeasure, there is likely some underlying cause in addition to simply disliking or hating the music. I remember during the disco era (late 70s) there were large events where people brought disco records to a stadium, for example, and burned them while cheering. All of my friends hated country music, but we'd simply state (sometimes emphatically in arguments) that fact and let it go. We would not gather country albums, drive to some location, and burn the records while insanely cheering. I strongly suspect that those record burnings were motivated by racism. That does not mean that everyone who disliked disco music was racist or even that everyone who went to the record burnings was racist (although I believe the vast majority of the latter were).

So... unless violadude is planning to don a hood and sneak off with ipods laden with mp3s of rap music to burn them along with a cross and taping the event to put on youtube... well maybe he just doesn't like rap music. I don't much either.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I honestly don't think anybody in here was targeting violadude. He posted that he thought there were some valid artists in the genre. I'm sad to see his thread get turned into mockery.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Mesa said:


> Still, on with the debate, gangsta rap was originated by, well, gangstas. Much like Polish common folk would compose music about Polish common folk, for Polish common folk to enjoy.


Exactly! Rap was invented by criminals for criminals and I don't understand how an ordinary law-abiding citizen can find anything attractive about it. Yes, you can pretend not to pay attention to the "lyrics" but you cannot completely filter their message out of your head. And since your head is a pretty valuable body part, one has to be selective about the stuff one puts inside it.

In my part of the world there is another type of this trash (the West has just one type, we have two) called chanson. It has nothing to do with French love songs, it is mostly verses sung to a guitar glorifying the criminal way of life and trying to invoke sympathy for those who live it. I don't know how anyone with any amount of decency would listen to that stuff either. And surely none of both types of trash belongs on the forum about real music. And you can call me a racist all you want, I couldn't care less.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

This woman has to be a joke


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

BTW way back in the late 70s, the Sugarhill Gang released a rap (or hip hop) single called _Rapper's Delight_. According to Wikipedia that single was the first hip hop record to make the top 40. I thought the song was great - fun, very funny, and danceable! You could actually hear the lyrics easily and many parts were hilarious. The tone was more upbeat than in your face.

Do any rappers make rap songs anything like that now?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, they do make songs like that still.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

violadude said:


> I'm going to do a bit of generalizing here, so sorry if that bugs you. My current roommate listens to nothing but rap music (not the good kind that some of my fellow TCers of introduced me to) and I've had to listen to this crap for a few months now.
> 
> I don't get what the message is supposed to be. The only thing I can gather is that the main message of most of the music he listens to is "I've got money and a big dick so I'm better than everyone else. And I may or may not have obtained my money illegally" Is there something I'm missing here or is that really the message that these rap guys wanna put out there.
> 
> My roommate seems like a nice enough guy, I don't know why he would want to fill his head with that junk...


I think it's the fact that music is a private thing. Everyone has different taste in it. & living within those close confines with the roommate, it's bound to be an issue. Also overexposure. If he had variety in what he listened to, it would probably be better. I mean I like 50's rock once in a while, or Charlie Parker, but not all the time.

I'm no expert on rap or hip-hop but I'd repeat what some others have suggested. There's cliches in it, there's conventions, and these ultimately get hackneyed and tired after a while. I think a lot of those things you mention, violadude, it can be about humour, almost sending up the genre, a spoof of the cliches of the genre. I think Kanye West does this a lot, eg. in his song _Monster_ (which also gets into vampire territory, it's a kind of post-modern thing, wierd but I like it sometimes).

I'm not a huge fan of the swearing but it's part of not only hip hop now but many other genres, eg. many types of rock, of course metal, stuff like that.

As for this, not strictly on topic, but I liked this post, and I'll respond to it by keeping it semi-relevant -



regressivetransphobe said:


> I hate to drag this to the point of redundancy, but the public got aware of rap, it got profitable, and now it's (generally) for the lowest common denominator. I'd say the same is true of traditional rock, and numerous electronic genres....


...and also classical. Eg. the genre of _Holy Minimalism _was an interesting reposte to the avant-garde and serialism when it first appeared around the 1970's and '80's, but now for the last 20 years we've been in rehash territory with that, seriously. There's nothing new to be said in this style, but it keeps repeating, and being rehashed by one of it's founding fathers, Arvo Part, and also others mimicking him.

So I agree with the premise of what you say. Easy to do the highbrow thing and dump on non-classical - which a good number of people here will ultimately be biased against - but harder to face the facts that similar thing goes on in your beloved classical. Plenty of rehash composers out there, and I try to avoid them like the plague, esp. as they take themselves waaaaaay too seriously compared to the product they're giving us, which is the equivalent of last night's - or last millenium's - dinner, old and stale, just repackaged. Sorry, I am not a fool guys, give us something other than rehash.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Sid James said:


> I think it's the fact that music is a private thing. Everyone has different taste in it . . .


Wholeheartedly agree with that.

I really don't care for Rap - it's not my thing - but it can be other people "thing" and I respect that. At the same time, those who play their Rap stuff, need to also respect my rights not having to listen to it while driving about town. The "rap" people find they need to open all their car windows (even when it's 114° outside) and play that 'crap' (it's crap to me) at full volume with pounding bass thumps (which give me a headache) and force me to listen to it as well, basically, not giving me a choice in the matter.

If they love their rap music that much, then close the windows and enjoy it - I don't go around playing my Messiaen organ recordings at full volume in traffic - it's a private thing for me and I will not deliberately force someone else to listen to what pleases my ears in musical taste.

Kh


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^RE the car thing, I agree, it sucks. Someone here joked that these people are very generous, they are "sharing" their music with all of us on the public streets. But it's not called a public street for nothing, so there.

The only fair solution to violadude's problem I can think of is for no music to be played in the house/room he lives in with his roommate. No music on speakers that is, by either of them (that's fair, isn't it?). They can both privately, separately listen to their own music with headphones. It's not ideal (eg. I hate headphones, prefer to only use them as last resort), but that's what I can think of in terms of practical advice, if it's wanted.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

So many generalizations in this thread


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Hmm, I think people are misinterpreting my OP, let me try to rephrase it. 

Since I think my roommate is generally a nice guy but he listens to rap music with a whole bunch of crud about criminal activity and having a huge ego I was wondering from people who know their stuff about rap if there is a way to legitimize the aforementioned qualities of the lyrics as something deeper...or more meaningful to that culture, or are those kind of lyrics really just the stupid **** I think they are? That was all I was wondering in the OP.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Exactly! Rap was invented by criminals for criminals and I don't understand how an ordinary law-abiding citizen can find anything attractive about it. Yes, you can pretend not to pay attention to the "lyrics" but you cannot completely filter their message out of your head. And since your head is a pretty valuable body part, one has to be selective about the stuff one puts inside it.
> 
> In my part of the world there is another type of this trash (the West has just one type, we have two) called chanson. It has nothing to do with French love songs, it is mostly verses sung to a guitar glorifying the criminal way of life and trying to invoke sympathy for those who live it. I don't know how anyone with any amount of decency would listen to that stuff either. And surely none of both types of trash belongs on the forum about real music. And you can call me a racist all you want, I couldn't care less.


That's probably the most ignorant thing i've read this week, and i spent most of my time on Youtube so...

Moving on. You people obviously haven't heard _anything_ out of the massive amounts of quality music that's being released right now, yes hip-hop included. Is everyone basing their opinion on what their kids are listening? Top 40 radio? Please...

CunninLynguists - Stars Shine Brightest (In The Darkest Of Night) 





CunninLynguists - "Enemies With Benefits" featuring Tonedeff


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2012)

Crack selling, ho beating, cop killing....I think that about covers it.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Maybe Mesa had a point...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

violadude said:


> Hmm, I think people are misinterpreting my OP, let me try to rephrase it.
> 
> Since I think my roommate is generally a nice guy but he listens to rap music with a whole bunch of crud about criminal activity and having a huge ego I was wondering from people who know their stuff about rap if there is a way to legitimize the aforementioned qualities of the lyrics as something deeper...or more meaningful to that culture, or are those kind of lyrics really just the stupid **** I think they are? That was all I was wondering in the OP.


It really wasn't difficult to understand but the direction this topic went in isn't surprising. The lyrics are just garbage.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> It really wasn't difficult to understand but the direction this topic went in isn't surprising. The lyrics are just garbage.


Alright haha, thanks!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Webernite said:


> I think you and Mesa should settle this with a rap battle.


We all know that I'm the undisputed king of that on talkclassical...


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

I drop rhymes at a rate not dissimilar to Mozart dropping phat concertos.

Be warned, sucker masters of ceremonies.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> We all know that I'm the undisputed king of that on talkclassical...





Mesa said:


> I drop rhymes at a rate not dissimilar to Mozart dropping phat concertos.
> 
> Be warned, sucker masters of ceremonies.


Yo yo, this' ma boy clavichorda..
Fo sho he's gonna bring it to ya
Thas right, to this day he' still undefeated
I'm talkin' 10 months his flow' still undepleted

Ya heard about this new guy Mesa?
Been here 2 days and thinks he's gangsta
Droppin' beats like Mozart apparently..
So most'a his rhymes be written by his daddy

Starthrowa in da house!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I got ma hat on backwards
And I'm lookin' real bad.
Don't look me in da eye
'cause I might get mad.

I got a chip on ma shoulder 
the size of a boulder.
I'm only sixteen, but I 
look ten years older!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

D.J. clavichord already brought it down
On the unsuspecting homies of T.C. town
Talkin' 'bout finding the meaning
In my rhymes it be teaming
No bitches and hos
Not in my lyrics, yo
Corny and white
In this hood it be a'ight
Clavichords, Medtner and past fixations
All one in my lyrical creations
But yo, its time get up to date
For when I wage war on the player hate


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to denigrate rap. (For those of you who do like rap, "denigrate" means to belittle or insult someone or something.)


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

When the MTV music awards finally acquiesced, under pressure because Rap had become a social and economic factor in the pop music industry, to create a category of award for the genre, they did so. 'Best Rap' became a category.

What I found deliciously ironic, less than subtle, and no one seems to have noticed it much, either: ALL the other awards are for "Genre + MUSIC." As in, "The award for best country and western Music." No one seems to notice that even the pop music industry has withheld the word 'music' in relation to rap. The award is announced as for 'best Rap' not 'best Rap Music.'

That should be a strong indication that even the pop music industry recognizes this pop genre as all talk, no music.

Ancient Greek Bards were thought to sing / deliver their narratives with music which fundamentally gave one beat to each syllable and once in a while two or a few more beats to a word they wished to emphasize. The music, more or less, was incidental.

So it is with Rap: essentially it has inadvertently re-created the ancient form of relaying text before most anyone knew how to read.

The text content, in about the early 90's, was more 'intelligent.' Content was more about oppression of class and race. Too, there was much about regret, regret in having caved in to peer pressure within a ghetto demographic, to less than good behavior, often a sort which only held the individual down and was also detrimental to their peers. That did not last long.

Some "messages," like "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp"




are, my opinion, worthy of no more sympathy than the recent complaint of the guy who is in the top 1% of the income bracket who was whining he might not be able to afford his summer home anymore because some fund did not pay out at its usual percentage this year (private schools for the children; two breed dogs whose care and maintenance, including grooming and dog walkers = $70k per annum, etc.)

They are social polar opposites, of the same clueless whine.

Your roommate - no matter how promising the I.Q. or intellect, there are more people out there who can only be moved by simple, obvious, and loud two-to-four pitch bass lines, in the fundamental 4/4 - with the simplest of base / basic rhythms, who may also 'track the top' line a bit, than you would ever care to imagine without making yourself either very frightened or contemplating how alone you are.

This just somewhat confirms, too, that classical music, any era, was never a popular entertainment or a populist consumer product.

If you are in college, and this is a college roommate -- well if you thought high school was the end of herd mentality and unthinkingly going along with peers' collective taste, I don't want to be the messenger, but - well, it is ongoing.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> If you are in college, and this is a college roommate -- well if you thought high school was the end of herd mentality and unthinkingly going along with peers' collective taste, I don't want to be the messenger, but - well, it is ongoing.


Indeed, it is a college roommate. I am learning the hard way.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Some people interpret gangsta rap as more of an impression of street life, just as outlaw country artists don't actually advocate shooting a man just to see him die.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Some people interpret gangsta rap as more of an impression of street life, just as outlaw country artists don't actually advocate shooting a man just to see him die.


I guess I just don't understand what could possibly be appealing about that lifestyle...but different strokes I guess...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Mesa said:


> I drop rhymes at a rate not dissimilar to Mozart dropping phat concertos.
> 
> Be warned, sucker masters of ceremonies.


Pretty much the essence of rap. Senseless bragadoccio. And then they call Wagner "a beastly personality with horrible opinions".


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

"Classical piano is for old rich and boring people who want a neutral background music. Anyone who doesn't think classical music is **** is a rich snob."


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Praeludium said:


> "Classical piano is for old rich and boring people who want a neutral background music. Anyone who doesn't think classical music is **** is a rich snob."


The "rich" part is quite a nice stereotype. But you don't believe that, do you?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

To be fair, rap had noble beginnings, and is a legitimate form of expression like anything else. Of course like everything else it's been co-opted by the corporate world in the pursuit of big profits.

All of the lowest common denominator/vulgar stuff being poked fun at here is the product of highly cynical, non-artistic business minded people.

When you stop to think about poor city kids with few opportunities, and maybe no chance of getting hold of a real musical instrument, rap was their way of creating an art form out of nothing.

For me this says a lot more about human ingenuity and creativity than some spoiled upper middle class kid who is given a violin or clarinet and sent off to private instruction.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

This thread makes me cringe.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> To be fair, rap had noble beginnings, and is a legitimate form of expression like anything else. Of course like everything else it's been co-opted by the corporate world in the pursuit of big profits.
> 
> All of the lowest common denominator/vulgar stuff being poked fun at here is the product of highly cynical, non-artistic business minded people.
> 
> ...


I agree with your over-all point, but I think your last sentence just kind of replaces one stereotype for another. There is plenty of room for all kinds of artistic expression in this world, (sometimes I've been guilty of this myself but) there is no need to denigrate something to raise something else up -and nobody gets an easy life in this world. There is really no need to pre-judge anyone rich or poor.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Sure, everyone has to work hard and make things happen, but most wealthy kids have a world of advantages over kids in poverty.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Sure, everyone has to work hard and make things happen, but most wealthy kids have a world of advantages over kids in poverty.


So, you are saying that kids who are poor go through harder times generally - and this makes their artistic statements more valid somehow? Or it says more about human creativity and ingenuity...doesn't that line of thinking simply reinforce and justify the status quo?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

No, it's in spite of the status quo.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Here is a thought for anyone who loves blues and rap yet criticizes the status quo. Your favorite music wouldn't exist if somebody hadn't oppressed its creator. 

I tip my hat to the creative spirit in all forms of music, and I think great artists can be found across all genres, but I don't think being poor qualifies someone to be taken more seriously as an artist, and I think thinking that way only reinforces the status quo. 

I do believe all forms of artistic expression (not necessarily the art itself - the outlets) should be treated equally, its the only way to resolve all of these paradoxes, and I admit to being biased towards classical music in the past, but I am trying to correct that way of thinking myself.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

So who was it that created the blues and who oppressed him (or her)? If you mean who created a particular song, then I could probably name a hundred blues artists who weren't particularly oppressed.

Also, once a rap artist makes his first million, is he still being oppressed? 

I see a lot of what strikes me as rap schtick in the above postings. Perhaps if I enjoyed the genre more, I'd be more receptive to it.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I may be mistaken, but a lot of music, created for the "common folks", for example medieval European folk music, was composed by people whose social conditions were not much better than those of modern rappers. However it doesn't glorify crime and violence to such an extent, and overall, it sounds much better. It has a tune at least. 

And being poor is no excuse for the gangsta lifestyle either.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

I can't say I've heard enough rap music to say that all rap music is bad. The rap music I have heard however brief and ill representative of rap as a whole I did not like. However I dislike these rap threads that seem to come around quite often not just on this forum but on other Classical/Opera forums.

If you dislike rap music that's fine if you like it that's fine I see no need to start threads about it. Unless there is some outrageous rap song or otherwise rap related event that is news worthy that is worth starting a thread about. It will just turn into a mud slinging.

>_<


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mesa said:


> I drop rhymes at a rate not dissimilar to Mozart dropping phat concertos.
> 
> Be warned, sucker masters of ceremonies.


Too bad 'Rhymes' just Are Not 'Poetry.'


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Lenfer, you are so right! I'm out of this thread.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

You people do realise that a lot of rap isn't about being a gangster and not all rap even rhymes. What would exclude raps from being a form of poetry?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> I guess I just don't understand what could possibly be appealing about that lifestyle...but different strokes I guess...


To be kind - yeah, even a bit compassionate, it's all they've got and all they know.

"Lifestyle" - I'm old enough to remember when that was not a pop-psych / talk show buzz word. Without the concept people just... lived the way they lived.

Now as a perceived 'concept' or 'option,' well, that's just all f*cked-up in this old geezer's thinking. Implies how you live is something that can be simply obtained, like going to a store, choosing something you want, and paying for it with a credit card!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Praeludium said:


> "Classical piano is for old rich and boring people who want a neutral background music. Anyone who doesn't think classical music is **** is a rich snob."


Shouldn't someone tell Rich that what he plays is an ultimate "neutral background music."?

And Gasp: A WHITE PIANO!

Is Clayderman RACIST? Or just a tastelessist?

Or perhaps a successful pop pianist who is still sour over not having gone further in another direction while in that college music department or conservatory?

I really must discuss with Richy his income as a musician compared to mine. Mine from the get-go having finished conservatory and ever since compared to his from whenever he 'finished training' and first started working.

I might be more of a snob, but there is no question about which of us is relatively 'rich,' at least on the fiscal front.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Hi guys, is this gangster rap? I listened to the whole clip. Certain images come to my mind. I say it's interesting from the perspective that it probably paints something about the part of society/culture where such music may have originated from, like all original music probably do. I would like to read a bit more about that.

I chuckled at the end imagining how would fellow motorist react if I turn this up loud and windows down.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm not really feeling that track... oh, how Ice Cube has fallen off... but yes he is gangster rap.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

If we've proved nothing else, we've proved that there are at least two massive racists on this forum.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mesa said:


> If we've proved nothing else, we've proved that there are at least two massive racists on this forum.


Yes, perhaps, but racists with good musical taste ~ or racists who happen to much prefer a genre which is mostly music vs. a genre which is 99.9999% all about text.

Oh, and your 'proved there are,' = ridiculous / patently absurd / insupportable / back to the logic - science - law 101a classroom for you, 'boy!'


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

SiegendesLicht is a Wagner fanatic. She's obviously a racist.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mesa said:


> If we've proved nothing else, we've proved that there are at least two massive racists on this forum.


What if they like Blues and Reggae but not rap. Also they are a fan of basketball.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2012)

...and Jimi Hendrix? Anyway, not liking rap does not equate with being a racist--that's about the least logical argument one could make. Besides, there are lots of white rappers, too.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I couldn't help but let out a bellow of laughter at the last few posts.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah we should know better. This troll is obviously looking for attention. We should all ignore him.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Anyone who doesn't like Brahms is a total ****ing racist scumbag.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Funny you mention that. My fiancee told me today that she doesn't really care for Brahms and I told her that I wasn't sure if I could be with a bigot.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Anyone that doesn't like Vivaldi is racist.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

In fact, anyone who doesn't agree with everything I say is a neo-Nazi fascist.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Some people would see that as a compliment. 

I read a post on here once and the poster was trashing Vivaldi. I was shocked and dismayed and thought, "What century are we in?!" I honestly can't believe people still think like that.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

Praeludium said:


> "Classical piano is for old rich and boring people who want a neutral background music. Anyone who doesn't think classical music is **** is a rich snob."


Such rhetoric might send you to the head of the debating class at your local JuCo, but it has a tendency to send people like me packing. If that's the intent, you've succeeded. If it's a quote from a rap song . . . then . . . well . . .


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

I didn't intend it to have some rhetoric power (and in fact I don't even know what is a JuCo q: I'm from France actually), I was just saying exactly what some people here have said... reversed. The weight of the prejudices is the same in both cases, and the example is as badly taken.
Now I wasn't attending to "fight" anyone particularly here, and certainly not the OP who doesn't seem to have such prejudices.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Why is rap monolithically judged?

http://www.vulture.com/2010/09/the_biggest_rapper_alive_jay-z.html


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Psh, I scoff at the idea of either of them being mentioned as the best rappers ever.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Haha how this thread has blown up.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> Why is rap monolithically judged?
> 
> http://www.vulture.com/2010/09/the_biggest_rapper_alive_jay-z.html


The best rapper is probably Black Thought from The Roots. The Roots is currently the house band for the Late Night with Jimmy Fallon.

This guy can freestyle like there's no tomorrow:





The Roots:


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

^ Sure that takes talent and a decent vocabulary, but I'm still waiting for rap that has what I would consider to be really well thought out, interesting poetry... without curse words scattered throughout as fillers


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> ^ Sure that takes talent and a decent vocabulary, but I'm still waiting for rap that has what I would consider to be really well thought out, interesting poetry... without curse words scattered throughout as fillers


That's because it's improvised. If you want thought out lyrics check out the two links below that clip, or any hip-hop video i've posted on this site.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Philip said:


> That's because it's improvised. If you want thought out lyrics check out the two links below that clip, or any hip-hop video i've posted on this site.


Alright, I'll check it out.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I know some people who really like this





Sage Francis performs poetry as well as raps





People tend to enjoy Aesop Rock





Cannibal Ox is a little more street-edged





People like to quote Immortal Technique





Some random Canibus





These aren't really the lyrics I'd exactly choose to cite but they're just some quick glances into non-mainstream hip-hop.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Hell yeah, there's about an infinity of non-mainstream hip-hop. A lot of different vibes:

Dibiase - Phantom Power 





FOREIGN BEGGARS & NOISIA 'CONTACT'





Dark Time Sunshine- Little Or No Concern 





More or Les - Ain't Goin' Out


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Some random stuff. None of this stuff is about being gangster.

Pharcyde





Del





Flying Lotus





Busdriver




About:
The song's instrumental is sampled from Bach's "Minuet and Badinerie Orchestral Suite No 2 in B Minor". Toward the end of a song, the theme from Paganini's 5th Caprice is used.

Aceyalone:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kontrapunctus said:


> ...and Jimi Hendrix? Anyway, not liking rap does not equate with being a racist--that's about the least logical argument one could make. Besides, there are lots of white rappers, too.


and Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Andre Watts, Jessye Norman, Barbara Hendricks, and... but wait, before if I single out all the accomplished great black musicians within all genres, ISN'T THAT BEING RACIST?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Racial intent


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

That's what I've been thinking to myself all the while, if you call people who look down on rap racist, then you've immediately assumed that rap is only for people of a race which is not represented by classical music listeners. What races are you then assuming represent these separate genres of music? Do you have a genre set out for each race? It opens up a lot of problematic racial issues and questions where there need be none.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Picture isn't working will fix it if I can... *thinks*


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Why are people still going on about that random racist comment? Although I will say that some of the comments in here were a bit... pushing it, but weren't necessarily racist as much as they were ignorant. "Music by criminals, for criminals" and "it is all aggressive and violent" certainly play off certain racist stereotypes after all. It is hard to believe people would actually believe the above without having some negative intentions behind it.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Hey, this guy is pretty good Cnote11.
Thanks for posting.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

There was an interesting scene out in California and there still is. Alternative hip-hop was very big out there and you had various "crews" like the Hieroglyphics which had Del The Funkee Homosapien, Souls Of Mischief, etc., then you had The Pharcyde and the Jurassic 5, and then you had the Living Legend with Murs later on, as well as Project Blowed who were probably the most interesting to come out of there, of which Aceyalone is the founder of that label and Busdriver is a part of. It started out of a cafe where locals would gather to freestyle and they were all heavily inspired by jazz and improvisation. These were some of the most interesting rappers at the time, stressing unconventional delivery and ability to come off the head with rhymes. Mind you, people were *AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFIED FOR CURSING*. They wanted to challenge their skills ad not fall back on the easy tropes. This whole west coast scene was a large reaction against the major uprising in gangster rap. At the center of this was the group Freestyle Fellowship which included Aceyalone. A lot of what they did stressed comedy and parody as well. All the stuff on the west coast reflected the Daisy Age/Native Tongue stuff going out on the East Coast as well. There is plenty of clever, witty, and fun hip-hop out there. I'm glad you could find something you can enjoy. Today you have groups like Lightheaded, Giant Panda, Crown City Rockers (who play live instruments), etc. still carrying the torch out on the west coast.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

And btw not all black people like rap and live on the streets. Great point Iforgotmypassword. That stereotype by itself is racist. So you Mesa have issues with stereotyping a race. This is an example of culture vs. race. Culture is the type of crowd you hang with. Race is just your color.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm gonna have to keep posting until somebody likes one of my posts... :devil:

Zion I - Coastin' 





CunninLynguists - The Gates 





Samiyam - Escape 





Mos Def - Casa Bey


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I always like all your posts Philip  A Piece of Strange is one of my favorite albums. It was stuck on repeat when it came out.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

tdc said:


> Here is a thought for anyone who loves blues and rap yet criticizes the status quo. Your favorite music wouldn't exist if somebody hadn't oppressed its creator.
> .


This is an assumption that is not entirely true. Blues music is not a direct result of injustice or oppression. The musical style itself is very old and goes back to the African continent. The late guitarist Ali Farka Toure from Timbuktu commented that the music of John Lee Hooker sounds very similar to music he grew up hearing in his hometown. It's just not that simple or cut and dried.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

misterjones said:


> So who was it that created the blues and who oppressed him (or her)? If you mean who created a particular song, then I could probably name a hundred blues artists who weren't particularly oppressed.
> 
> Also, once a rap artist makes his first million, is he still being oppressed?
> 
> I see a lot of what strikes me as rap schtick in the above postings. Perhaps if I enjoyed the genre more, I'd be more receptive to it.


Sure you could probably name a hundred blues artists who weren't oppressed, but the form of music itself had to come from somewhere. Do you think people can just randomly come up with these musical styles, or do you think their evolution is dependent on personal and societal experiences? If you think it is more the latter than I think it is possible to give some credit to the hard times in the development of musical styles such as the Blues. Do I know this for a fact - no. It was a thought I was throwing out there as I thought it might elicit some interesting responses, but not because I necessarily believe it is 100% accurate either. Your question about the rapper is irrelevant because my comment was in regards to the origin of a style, not how that style is used after it has been created.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> ^ Sure that takes talent and a decent vocabulary, but I'm still waiting for rap that has what I would consider to be really well thought out, interesting poetry... without curse words scattered throughout as fillers


French is the most poetic language..

Grand corps malade : rencontres


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Oui, j'adore francais. Il est beau.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

There's some french rap groups that even people who usually dislike rap sometimes listen to (here) :















I'm not necessary a huge fan of these musically wise (I actually like them a more lot than what's usually on the radio).

Here's a special one : rap music from Versailles q:






With english subtitles. I don't how good they're but they seem ok.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

tdc said:


> Do you think people can just randomly come up with these musical styles, or do you think their evolution is dependent on personal and societal experiences?


I don't know. I was asking you. You seemed certain as to the creation of the blues and the experiences of those behind it. I thought I perhaps had found the Holy Grail of the blues.

Regarding the rapper, I thought the issue was the experiences of the particular performer, and I assumed he or she continued to pursue his or her oppressed art even after significant monetary rewards were reaped.

Regarding the origins of rap, I have no idea. I always assumed it existed at least to a certain degree outside of the white man's enslavement of the black man in the inner-city ghetto, but I could be wrong.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Good luck trying to come up with an official version of the origins of blues and rap, or jazz for that matter. Everybody's got their own take on it. No one musician can take credit for the inventing these genres, although some have tried. Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented jazz. All we can do is study the key contributors to see how the music developed and evolved while simultaneously studying and listening to folk music to see where musical elements were borrowed and incorporated into contemporary styles.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I must admit that I own not one rap album and don't plan to, but any genre that continues to hang around for this long and show that it is dynamic (I mean by that, changing in style, flexible in expression and varied in details - all of which it has or does..must have something of substance to recommend it as it crossed the racial lines a long time ago. In popular music of this country which in a long view would include jazz in my opinion, the African American Community has given us Ragtime, Blues, Jazz (and its many styles), RnB, RnR (Little Richard!), Soul and Rap...I'm sure I left some genres out. Anyway, this is extraordinary. I don't intend to educate myself in rap, there's just too much message (good, bad or mediocre) and too little musically for my interest, but it cannot be dismissed as crap....in my very humble opinion. In the mid-90's it began to draw younger white youths away from the fading Grunge scene and other rock genres with a little help from Eminem. 

The bottom line is that America's first musical export of any magnitude was Jazz and Blues, then RnB, then RnR and then Rap, and these exports have changed the popular musics of the world profoundly.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

Ignoring the mainstream rap I think that when done well and for a fairly good purpose (the ghetto rap, and the "how bad our society/world is") it's bearable. 
I used to listen to Israeli Hip-Hop (and rap) from time to time (even now I sometimes), and most of the songs actually had playful and interesting lyrics.
I guess it's a good genre if you want to talk out as much as you want using rhyme. The beat just gives you the rhythm.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

starthrower said:


> Good luck trying to come up with an official version of the origins of blues and rap, or jazz for that matter. Everybody's got their own take on it. No one musician can take credit for the inventing these genres, although some have tried. Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented jazz. All we can do is study the key contributors to see how the music developed and evolved while simultaneously studying and listening to folk music to see where musical elements were borrowed and incorporated into contemporary styles.


Rap was originally created by a white woman called Deborah Harry in 1980.

Proof:






Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash and Chuck D all copped licks from Debbie Harry.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

I'll buy that. Or how about a middle class white boy from Minnesota? Talk about oppressed! Having to clean up your room and take out the garbage on a regular basis. Beat that! (Or, at least, phat beat that.)


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Argus said:


> Rap was originally created by a white woman called Deborah Harry in 1980.
> 
> Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash and Chuck D all copped licks from Debbie Harry.


The Wikipedia article on _Rapture_ says, "While it was not the first single featuring rapping to be commercially successful, it was the first to top the charts. Its lyrics include references to hip-hop pioneers Fab Five Freddy and Grandmaster Flash."

Another Wikipedia article references The Sugarhill Gang's _Rapper's Delight_ released in 1979 as the first hip hop record to make the top 40. Rapper's Delight was the first time I was aware of rap, but there were undoubtedly earlier, less successful rap songs.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

i don't know. but mr wet biscuit seems very angry at someone. maybe he wasn't breast fed.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

mmsbls said:


> The Wikipedia article on _Rapture_ says, "While it was not the first single featuring rapping to be commercially successful, it was the first to top the charts. Its lyrics include references to hip-hop pioneers Fab Five Freddy and Grandmaster Flash."
> 
> Another Wikipedia article references The Sugarhill Gang's _Rapper's Delight_ released in 1979 as the first hip hop record to make the top 40. Rapper's Delight was the first time I was aware of rap, but there were undoubtedly earlier, less successful rap songs.


I am 100% serious in every single one of my posts.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

As am I. Well, maybe 75-80%.

Listen to the below starting at 1:14. Anyone able to identify an earlier rap? If so, you win a copy of "101 Bad-*** Rapper Poses for All Occasions".


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Argus said:


> I am 100% serious in every single one of my posts.


Sorry. Honestly it's hard to tell. I've thought you were joking at times when you were apparently serious. I guess I should ask first.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Jazz rap:

Surreal And The Sound Providers - Push On 





Jazz Liberatorz - Vacation


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Lady Gaga rap :devil:

Paper Gangsta


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Well that is one post of yours I will not like, Philip.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Does RATM count as rap?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> You people do realise that a lot of rap isn't about being a gangster and not all rap even rhymes. What would exclude raps from being a form of poetry?


The same thing that excludes many a fine song lyric from being 'a form of poetry.'

Uh... 'Poetry.'


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I honestly say no. It has rapping type cadence but I wouldn't really count it as hip-hop derived rap music. Same way you could say some funk songs are "rapped" but I wouldn't classify them as so. You could count them as some some sort of fusion, but I could easily call them funk metal instead of rap metal or the like.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

PetrB said:


> The same thing that excludes many a fine song lyric from being 'a form of poetry.'
> 
> Uh... 'Poetry.'


That honestly doesn't answer the question in any shape or form. I really am interested in your response and I hope you can clarify what you mean.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

French celtic rap, very catchy chorus:

Manau - La Tribu de Dana


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> I honestly say no. It has rapping type cadence but I wouldn't really count it as hip-hop derived rap music. Same way you could say some funk songs are "rapped" but I wouldn't classify them as so. You could count them as some some sort of fusion, but I could easily call them funk metal instead of rap metal or the like.


Which is why I liked Rage. They were rock influenced rap. Biohazard also played that style sort of. Urban Discipline and State of the World Address were good rock/rap cd's. So I'm wrong for saying I didn't like any rap. Just don't care for the Hip Hop influenced rap.


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## DavidJones (Aug 17, 2011)

Bitch,fucck,smoke,sh1t= rap song


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

DavidJones said:


> Bitch,fucck,smoke,sh1t= rap song


...and = your post as well in this case.


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