# Modern classical music



## xanhil (Mar 3, 2013)

I know, the title might be a bit paradoxal, but I'm sure you guys know what I mean. 
I'm looking for "classical" music composed in this century. I'm not looking for movie music, rather piano music. 
I've heard some modern piano music and it was kinda abstract and strange. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. Do you have any suggestions?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)




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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Also, not really abstract, but I find this piece to be quite strange:


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Are you sure it has to be from 21st century? 20th century produced so many great, abstract and strange works.  When I read those words, I immediately thought of Webern's Variations for piano op. 27. It is one of my favourite dodecaphonic pieces.






Best regards, Dr


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

No I'm not sure I understand or follow Your train of thought, please explain further!

/ptr


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## xanhil (Mar 3, 2013)

DrKilroy said:


> Are you sure it has to be from 21st century? 20th century produced so many great, abstract and strange works.  When I read those words, I immediately thought of Webern's Variations for piano op. 27. It is one of my favourite dodecaphonic pieces.
> 
> Best regards, Dr


Well not necessarily from the 21st century. Im just looking for different music that doesn't necessarily have a structure to it.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Oh well, dodecaphonic music, especially Webern, is very structured, so I guess it was not a good idea.

It still sounds random, however. 

Best regards, Dr


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

xanhil said:


> Well not necessarily from the 21st century. Im just looking for different music that doesn't necessarily have a structure to it.


That's going to be difficult. Pretty much all music has structure to it.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

*Boulez three sonatas?*





*Ustvolskaya's set of 6*





*Allgéns Fantasia*





/ptr


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## xanhil (Mar 3, 2013)

violadude said:


> That's going to be difficult. Pretty much all music has structure to it.


Think John cage and you know what I'm looking for.

Spot on there ptr. Im going to check out the composers, thank you.

Oh, and I can't remember the name of the composer that introduced the world to 12 tone music. Do you know who I'm looking for?


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Schoenberg, perhaps?

Best regards, Dr


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

xanhil said:


> Modern classical music


modern in the sense of 'modern' or 'contemporary'?


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## scarbo (Aug 3, 2011)

There is not really a forum here to discuss contemporary compositional music (whatever that means)... The forum titles very much follow traditional classical/romantic music tradition, which I think is a shame. Where would one discuss ensemble music from the late 20th century or transitional forms between music and theater. Also, early music seems to be forgotten completely...

Some potential posters could easily be discouraged by this...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

xanhil said:


> Think John cage and you know what I'm looking for.


Ya, but it still has structure.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

xanhil said:


> Well not necessarily from the 21st century. Im just looking for different music that doesn't necessarily have a structure to it.


LOL, Whatever the piece, set or allowing for a bit of chance, there is a 'structure.' 
I imagine you mean not typical common practice period forms like 'Sonata' etc.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I take xanhil to mean random sounding rather than literally random. I think that Boulez's 2nd sonata does have underlying structure, even as a non musician I can hear that contrast in dynamics and rhythm (but of course there is not melody, or if there is, its fragmented as put in a blender). But I like his piano sonatas. I think the 3rd sonata is the most 'random,' especially since with that Boulez took on some ideas of John Cage. These are impressive and dramatic works, even if for the moods and vibes Boulez creates with them. Quite unique.

Others in this sort of quite experimental vein (for the mid 20th century, anyway) are Stockhausen's klavierstucke, Carter's piano sonata & Jean Barraqué's sonata. But I'm not up on the latest piano stuff internationally speaking. I know some Australian composers but I don't know if its any use to you. Hard to get hold of overseas. Last time I checked though, a piano work called Corruscations was on youtube by Richard Meale. That was from his early serialist inspired period (c.1970's).

I dunno if that helps. Maybe clutching at straws here but maybe go to jazz from very 'out there' stuff. Late 20th century you had pianist Thelonius Monk, someone said he did an album with two bands in separate studios, they could not hear what eachother where doing. I guess that would be very random (but have not heard the album myself). Does anybody here know that album? I don't, but I know his more mainstream stuff. Another one like that is Ornette Coleman, that 'free jazz' style, which isn't my cup of tea, but maybe its a lead worth checking out for you?...

[EDIT - I forgot to say, another one is *Xenakis*, a classic piano work by him is _Herma._ Again, not without structure, but like much of his music it brings images of nature to my mind's eye, its got that organic structure, like waves crashing on a shore (ironic since this is a guy who based his music on mathematics and also used computers to aid him in composing with the algorithms etc).]


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Since "music without structure" really refers to our _perception_ of structure, then anything "Man the pattern-seeker" listens to or looks at will eventually yield some sort of "structure."

The only alternative is to damage or destroy part of the brain itself, rendering you incapable of perceiving structure. I suggest straining liquid shoe-polish through several pieces of white bread, then drinking the clearish liquid which results.


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> The only alternative is to damage or destroy part of the brain itself, rendering you incapable of perceiving structure. I suggest straining liquid shoe-polish through several pieces of white bread, then drinking the clearish liquid which results.


I tried that twice and it didn't work for me. What can I try next?


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)




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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Regarding the OP request, they may be interested in Jean Barraqué's _Piano Sonata_. The most popular recording seems to be that of Pi Hsien Chen, though I have not heard it, I'm quite partial to Herbert Henck's recording myself. Above all I would suggest avoiding Stefan Litwin's recording, he completely ignores tempo markings and makes for quite an awkward stilted listen.


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## xanhil (Mar 3, 2013)

PetrB said:


> I imagine you mean not typical common practice period forms like 'Sonata' etc.


Yeah pretty much


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

xanhil said:


> ...
> I've heard some modern piano music and it was kinda abstract and strange. That's pretty much what I'm looking for. Do you have any suggestions?


Kinda strange and abstract? Lots around.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

xanhil said:


> Yeah pretty much


Schoenberg's Five Orchestral Pieces might do the trick.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

*Pierre Boulez*'s piano sonatas have been mentioned. If you are looking for pieces whose structure differs from traditional form, then those pieces are very important. They were writen using the principles of _Integral Serialism_, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_serialism.
Another set of important pieces are *György Ligeti*'s piano etudes. In these pieces, a new conception of polyphony and rhythmic relation between the voices are explored, based on abstract principles from african traditional music, 



, 



.
*Unsuk Chin*'s piano etudes follow the Ligeti school, 



.
*Toru Takemitsu*, 



.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

To me, the top #1 absolute do not miss it recommendation of "modern" classical piano music must be Rzewski's Variations on The People United Will Never Be Defeated! 

I hesitate to list more for fear of compromising the urgency of that recommendation, but I will just offhandedly toss out Scriabin (not all that modern, technically, but might satisfy and interest you), Roslavetz, Messiaen, Kapustin, Sorabji, and of course Cage. There are of course more, lots more, but I've got to go to work....

Edit: Ah, I see Ligeti was mentioned. Yes, that is true too. Maybe my recommendations would flow in this order: 

1. Rzewski's VoTPUWNBD!
2. Ligeti's Etudes and Musica Ricercata. 
3. Messiaen's Catalog of Birds. 
4. All that other stuff. 

With even a moment's further thought I might change something there... but I really cannot spare it now!


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

This is the best.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

2nd best. This is the best, and of course the most original.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

hayd said:


> 2nd best. This is the best, and of course the most original.


Yes, and I would have demanded an encore.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh, look, 4'33" jokes! That hasn't been done in _this_ thread yet! Very, very clever.

Let me see if I can think of one...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

. . . . . .


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I did it! I'm clever too!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*The Sound of Silence*

A gentleman in another music forum, I think "Brightcecilia", made an interesting observation about Cage. It appears that his entire reputation is based on _4' 33"_ and that many use this one composition to invalidate his entire body of music. His entire catalog is much more diverse and creative than he gets credit for.

Let us assume that _4' 33"_ is the dog that many believe it is, to then claim everything he composed is garbage is shameful. Every great composer, including Beethoven, composed his share of losers.

The one Cage work that I like is _Atlas elipticalis_. In the hands of a talented conductor like James Levine it can be a very effective piece.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

a bit modern piano music of the eccentric kind:

Michael Finissy: "English Country Tunes"




(but also the beauty of this 



)

Per Nørgård:"Achilles & the Tortoise" 



and especially the piano concerto "in Due Tempi" 




Claude Ballif:"Pieces Detachees" 




Some earlier stuff:
Langgaard:"Insektarium"


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

science said:


> I did it! I'm clever too!


Actually, I thought that was quite funny.

Is it not okay to laugh at stuff we like?

Female singers in Indian classical music are wonderful to listen too. Sometimes they go off their trolley (for want of a technical expression). I love it for its musical qualities, but at the same time I find it incredibly amusing.

When I play a Haydn symphony, at the strange pauses which are common in some movements, I can visualise the conductor turning to the audience with a bemused but comical expression, until the music piles in again. If I was at a concert and the conductor actually did this, I would find it wryly amusing, and would certainly not feel that it would tarnish the performance.


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