# Beethoven



## vivaciouswagnerian (Jul 21, 2005)

Does anyone have any opinions of some of Beethoven's Masses? I'm currently listening to the Missa Solemnes and his use of soloists is certainly not uncommon but he does it so elegantly that you can't tell the choir stopped singing because it is so powerful. Let me know what ya'll think and if any of his other masses exhibit similar technique.


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## Mr Salek (Apr 11, 2006)

*Beethoven 

Yes I've downloaded Missa Solemnis recently and I think it's pretty good. I haven't looked into anyhting else.


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## vivaciouswagnerian (Jul 21, 2005)

*BeetHoven*

Forgive me, it was 5 in the morning, lol.


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## Weltschmerz (Jun 19, 2006)

If you like the Beethoven choral music, listen to Bruckner's - probably the most genuine yet innovatinve Catholic choral music composer of the Romantic era.


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

Beethoven: Missa Solemnis. My version is Klemperer. I don't have any other Beethoven Masses. This Mass is considered his great work in this area.

Other fairly similar choral works:


Bach's Mass In B Minor. It's very long. The best version by far is John Eliot Gardner. 
Haydn Mass No 11
Mozart Requiem
Schubert Mass 6 in E Maj, D 950 (very conventional Mass, beautiful)
Schumann Mass Op 147 
Verdi's Requiem 
Brahms German Requiem (not a Mass) 
Faure's Requiem (not a Mass)
In many ways I like the Schumann and Brahms pieces best. My version of the Brahms Requiem is Klemperer. There are many but this is the best. I just love the Romantic period flavour of these two pieces. They repay repeated listening.

Topaz


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## 4/4player (Nov 17, 2006)

I am a fan of Beethoven's Symphonies....Thought I have never heard of his "Missa Solemis"...
Im going to buy a cd recording of this piece soon...so..Care to give me a somewhat
(p)review of this piece?=) Thanks!

4/4player


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

Missa Solemnis: Klemperer on EMI Classics. Watch out for the Benedictus. It will blow your socks off. 

Think Beethoven: think Furtwangler, Klemperer, Kleiber, HVK, Abbado.

Isn't it about time you got moving into Brahms? Just wait for the "composer of the week", coming soon. I hope you have plenty of spare cash. 


Topaz


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## 4/4player (Nov 17, 2006)

LOL, Topaz!

I hope I will enjoy the cd when I buy it..
Yes, I SHOULD be moving to Brahms(Since he's your favorite composer!=P)...Though I don't know what pieces to start off with,lol..any suggestions?=) Thanks!

4/4player


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

If you're coming to Brahms from beethoven the obvious choice is Beethoven's 10th...  oops, I mean Brahm's 1st Symphony. Coming from Missa Solemnis? The German Requiem is quite lovely (Gardiner or Klemperer)


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## classiko (Jan 23, 2007)

You can find lots of Beethoven's works at http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/79.htm. You can also get streaming


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## Hexameron (Oct 7, 2006)

classiko - do you think you can offer any further opinions without referencing the Naxos website? You're coming off as a phony bot, promoting the Naxos website even in the Mozart Controversy thread.


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

classiko is obviously only interested in promoting Naxos.com. I'm surprised such a reputable outfit is allowing this sort of thing. I'm afraid adverts like this have completely the opposite efect on me; I will now go out of my way to avoid buying anything from Naxos; do you get get that classiko?


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

I almost clicked the link before realizing the horror to which I would succumb.

I hadn't ever heard *Missa Solemnis* well into my university days. I was first exposed to it during the opening funeral scene from the movie *Immortal Beloved*, it is the opening *Kyrie* that is heard there. I like the piece very much, but I _respect_ it even more, if you can accept that distinction.

It is very interesting how very different the choral writing is from the finale of the 9th symphony.

____________________________________
_... perhaps the title of this thread can be changed to "Beethoven Masses"?_


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

A Missa Solemnis is the poshest version of sung Mass (missa cantata) in the everyday R.C. liturgy. It's one up from ordinary missa cantata, but not as "high" as a Pontifical High Mass. None of these is normally used for requiem purposes.

Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is probably the best, or at least I would argue so. Anything that Beethoven put his mind to usually trumped all, and here was no exception. I understand he spent a lot of time getting it right. 

Bach's Mass in B Minor is a long sprawling piece, good in parts, but seems to have nothing to with any kind of mass I know (and it's far too long). I can't relate to it at all.

Mozart's Mass in C Minor (K 427 written 1782) is of course "great" not just in name but in quality; in fact it's superb. I wonder what Robert Newman may have to say about this?

Franz Schubert also wrote some gorgeous masses. Mass 2 is a notable early one he wrote when he was only 18. This Mass was a staple of the R.C. Church for a long while in the 19th C. His Mass 5 is the equivalent of a Missa Solemnis. His last Mass - Mass 6, written in the year of his death, 1828 - is magnificent. I think I prefer it to most others. 

The thing about Schubert's masses is that they sound the "biz" in the sense that you can imagine them actually being used routinely as such, unlike many of the glitzy things written by several other composers, before and after. He gets exactly right the required tone/tempo for each part of the Mass, clearly because he knew what was required.

One curious feature about Schubert's masses is that, for some peculiar reason, he left out a few key words in the Credo, which used to upset the Church authorities a bit, but because they generally loved him so much he was forgiven for this transgression (sin?).


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

Topaz said:


> Bach's Mass in B Minor is a long sprawling piece, good in parts, but seems to have nothing to with any kind of mass I know (and it's far too long). I can't relate to it at all.


If anyone else is wondering why the B Minor mass is what it is, it is so long and varied because Bach wrote it as an "audition piece" for a job, sorry, can't remember which one and I'm too lazy to fire up Wikipedia right now.

In it, he tried to demonstrate every single style possible, to show off his technical compositional prowess.


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

Re Bach's Mass in B Minor: He probably couldn't recall what job he was applying for either, so as a precaution he may have added another few extra sections each year in case the right job turned up one day. 

It sure needs a good pruning. On one occasion, I inadvertently left my CD player on random play, and found I wasn't aware of it for a few days. Has that ever happened to anyone else? It seems shocking to admit this, but it's true. My excuse is that it was a Bach session, so how was I to know?


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## Explorer-8 (Jan 18, 2007)

*Missa Solemnis*

I heard the Missa Solemnis on the radio last year and I thought it was good music. I don't know what Beethoven's cantatas, other masses, oratorio, choral fantasia, or "Calm sea and prosperous voyage" sound like. They should be worth exploring.


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## Rod Corkin (Jun 1, 2007)

Explorer-8 said:


> I heard the Missa Solemnis on the radio last year and I thought it was good music. I don't know what Beethoven's cantatas, other masses, oratorio, choral fantasia, or "Calm sea and prosperous voyage" sound like. They should be worth exploring.


Good Music? GOOD MUSIC?? There's nothing better than the Missa Solemnis!

For the record I can recommend any vocal piece by Beethoven, certainly those you mention, though these are relatively small in number as a whole. The cantatas consist only of the 'Joseph' and 'Leopold' - really a double cantata, and also 'The Glorious Moment' - a proto-late period piece with some great numbers and a barn-storming finale. Very few recordings of this last piece however. Also is the Mass in C, slowly coming out from under the Missa's shadow at long last.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

The Choral Fantasia is a joyful piece. I have not heard any other choral piece by Beethoven, apart from the 9th symphony of course.


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## gabby (Nov 14, 2010)

*Music Form and Analysis*

Hello Anyone;

i need help with the analysis of classical compositions. Can anyone help me?

Thank you,

Gabby


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

gabby said:


> Hello Anyone;
> 
> i need help with the analysis of classical compositions. Can anyone help me?
> 
> ...


You have chosen a very old and seemingly irrelevant thread to post your request in. Can you clarify what you mean? Which compositions are you talking about and what kind of analysis are you seeking?


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