# Really odd thing that sticks with me



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Many years ago, I knew the members of a young professional string quartet for most of the 15 years of its existence. After one of its final concerts, I was chatting with a member and he asked if I could suggest a short, festive piece they could play for an occasion they had agreed to take part in. I suggested the alternative finale to Beethoven's B-flat quartet, Opus 130 -- the one that replaced the Grosse Fuge. He looked at me and said "We don't know it. We've never played it." Although I admire their decision always to play Opus 130 with the fugue finale, I was nevertheless flabbergasted that here was a respected professional ensemble that called itself a string quartet, but had never even played through an entire complete late quartet movement by Beethoven! I still am.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. That is odd.

I also consider it to be the remark of a boorish snob. Hence, I don't believe him.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

Personally I think either decision to go with the fugue or the rondo are both valid. Its interesting how it effects the overall piece. It does seem strange that this string quartet had never played rondo finale before.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The rondo is a cop out. Shame on Beethoven for caving in to the pressure.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The rondo is a cop out. Shame on Beethoven for caving in to the pressure.


I think the rondo is a lot of fun and a wonderful addition. Did you know it was the very last piece he ever completed?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> The rondo is a cop out. Shame on Beethoven for caving in to the pressure.


Spare me. Can you supply an example of the "pressure" put on Beethoven? That probably wouldn't have worked very well!

A different approach to the finale was suggested, and Beethoven agreed (somewhat to his friends' surprise, as they expected the usual ill-tempered explosion). The new finale, his last completed composition, is quite substantial, the longest finale aside from the Fugue in all his late quartets. It is certainly very original and very fine.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

That Rondo, like every other movement in the late quartets, is brilliant.

Yeah, odd that a professional string quartet would play Op 130 but not play the Rondo.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

In defense of the string quartet group: If I were paying for a ticket, I’d likely prefer the fugue as giving me a bit more for my money since it is more difficult to pull off, can be approached in several ways, and is subject to any number of disasters in performance. But listening at home, I’m probably 50-50 between the fugue and the “approved” finale, depending on my mood.

Some believe that the choice of finale should affect the way the earlier movements are played. But most quartet cycles simply offer one finale or the other. An exception is the Elias Quartet, who offer two totally separate complete recordings of the Op. 130.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

KenOC said:


> In defense of the string quartet group: If I were paying for a ticket, I'd likely prefer the fugue as giving me a bit more for my money since it is more difficult to pull off, can be approached in several ways, and is subject to any number of disasters in performance. But listening at home, I'm probably 50-50 between the fugue and the "approved" finale, depending on my mood.


 Some quartets play both the fugue and the alternate finale.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Some quartets play both the fugue and the alternate finale.


Yes, I think most quartets do that. But only the Elias, that I've seen, offers two separate performances of the complete Op. 130. I really can't tell if the choice of finale affects the way they play the earlier movements, but I guess they think it does.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I am going on record ( no pun intended) to say that I will never respect any string quartet that records the quartet with the rondo instead of the Grosse Fuge.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I am going on record ( no pun intended) to say that I will never respect any string quartet that records the quartet with the rondo instead of the Grosse Fuge.


Punishments. We demand to know the punishments!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> That Rondo, like every other movement in the late quartets, is brilliant.
> 
> Yeah, odd that a professional string quartet would play Op 130 but not play the Rondo.


Unthinkable even.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I like the rondo of opus 130 as an extroverted stand alone piece. As a convincing finale to the string quartet, no. As far as I am concerned, it's Grosse Fuge or don't bother performing it.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> I like the rondo of opus 130 as an extroverted stand alone piece. As a convincing finale to the string quartet, no. As far as I am concerned, it's Grosse Fuge or don't bother performing it.


The beautiful thing about music is it doesn't have to be one way or the highway. How fortunate are we that Beethoven composed two unique and amazing finales to this piece and we have the opportunity to appreciate both of them for what they are? If there's a fork in the road take it.


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