# My vision of classical music



## exaltation (Nov 22, 2012)

Hello,

I am a classical cellist, as is my mother. I am the type of artist who is extremely uninhibited emotionally when I play, I feel the emotion very strongly, and I communicate how strongly I feel it by the way I play. If I was a technical prodigy then that would work out great, but I am not. So, I have this really strong connection to the feelings that are involved in the music I play. I really feel so disappointed when the emotion to communicate is not communicated by the artist who plays it. I don't understand why, but I feel so saddened when the audience or the musicians aren't "feeling" it. I realize that some people just don't express outwardly what they are feeling which is a viable explanation for this.

I have always had this thought that if the members in the orchestra looked like how the music felt, that many more people would come to the concerts. Some of the players do not feel music so they would have to just act I suppose. But what a strange dream, everyone's face and body language becoming the character of the music. All of the musicians with every fiber of their being in the feelings, soul, essence, character, whatever that is...God perhaps... I really believe that classical music performances would get so many more audience members if everyone moved together and felt together. I'm sure there are some that do, just, why is it that that is not taught in schools?

People say that you cannot teach that, to play emotionally. This is very disappointing because technique is not the purpose of so much music. Why is getting into character not the first thing anyone learns about performing music? Perhaps because teachers do not know? 

CLASSICAL MUSIC CAN BE A SOURCE OF TRUE EXHILARATION, but maybe only for me?

What are your thoughts?

Go ahead and share even if it could be considered harsh.

"the truth is born out of the clash of differing opinions." Abdul-baha


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Who made your cello, which maker?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Art is subjective.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The Nashville Symphony has one of those players in Zeneba Bowers, who leads the second violins. I don't know if she is conscious of what she's doing, but I remember watching her perform Beethoven's 9th, and it was fun seeing her express all the moods. She even bowed her head at "Ihr sturzt nieder, Millionen." Plus she had her hair up like the Bride of Frankenstein, which was quite striking. She isn't distracting, just one of those who I like to single out.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

exaltation said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a classical cellist, as is my mother. I am the type of artist who is extremely uninhibited emotionally when I play, I feel the emotion very strongly, and I communicate how strongly I feel it by the way I play. If I was a technical prodigy then that would work out great, but I am not. So, I have this really strong connection to the feelings that are involved in the music I play. I really feel so disappointed when the emotion to communicate is not communicated by the artist who plays it. I don't understand why, but I feel so saddened when the audience or the musicians aren't "feeling" it. I realize that some people just don't express outwardly what they are feeling which is a viable explanation for this.
> 
> ...


I think what you're looking for in music is _drama. _The Greeks used music to illustrate dramatic stagings, and only in later times did "chamber music" and purely instrumental music emerge.

Much instrumental music, like symphonies, therefore has a lot of residual "dramatic gesture" built-in to it, because it was meant to express dramatic action in the past.

Some conductors, like Leonard Bernstein, seem to know this, and get very dramatic as they conduct. This seems to help the audience feel the drama in the music.

I think orchestral players _do_ feel the drama of the music, but just don't show it. And _the "drama" is in the music itself,_ so I don't feel it's the player's responsibility to be a "conveyor of drama" except in his playing; but not in physical gestures or expressions.

If you ever get a chance to play as a soloist, or in a concerto, then there's your chance to convey drama in your playing and gestures. Just be careful that the cello does not fly out of your hands!:lol:


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

exaltation said:


> I have always had this thought that if the members in the orchestra looked like how the music felt, that many more people would come to the concerts. Some of the players do not feel music so they would have to just act I suppose. But what a strange dream, everyone's face and body language becoming the character of the music. All of the musicians with every fiber of their being in the feelings, soul, essence, character, whatever that is...God perhaps... I really believe that classical music performances would get so many more audience members if everyone moved together and felt together. I'm sure there are some that do, just, why is it that that is not taught in schools?


I went to a master class this past summer for flute, and I remember specifically 2 players that liked to grimace when they played. The Professor told them to stop because she said _not _grimacing would _help _them play better, although she didn't go into details why. I think just because it starts becoming the center of focus, what you look like, as opposed to what you're actually playing. However, this teacher would grimace a little when she played too. And personally, I'm not against it at all, and I actually thought those 2 flutists were some of the best of the bunch. Surely showing your facial expressions when you play makes a difference psychologically on the player as well as audience.

Cello is definitely a very physical instrument, where you can use your physicality to express emotion. Flute isn't quite like that, because we have to keep part of our body rather still if we want to play well. We can't shake or nod our heads, or smile (except with our eyes), although in general I move my spine a lot when I play because it releases tension in my body. If I don't move, I feel tense. And I think using the flute as a visual device for expression is definitely viable, doing different motions. But it can only go so far before it starts to hinder you. It can't be too much.

Also, I want to add that I'm an INTJ, the supposedly un-feeling, "shy," overly logical personality. And yet I have played with more feeling than extroverted, touchy-feely people. So how is this possible? Is it just your emotional _personality _that defines everything? When I play my flute, I feel as if I become another person, an actor. I'm very constrained as a person when I speak, I don't talk a lot, but my mind is always on fire, and I think what goes on in the heart and mind is most important for a musician, not that they're vociferous. However, this is a growing process that not everyone overcomes quickly. I know somewhat quiet people that play shyly anyway because their personality intersects their playing in that way. But I _am _emotional I think, and just because I love analysis of music doesn't mean I hate looking at music in an emotional way. I _emotionally _analyze music! Music is the intersection of mind _and _heart.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I am confused by what you say of 'feeling' and the way of 'expressing it through the instrument,' because the only way to get any form of expression in the music to be heard _is by technique._

Technique is the tool box which lets us make the music sound at all expressive to the audience: accuracy, control of tone color, phrasing, articulation, the micro agogic which a good musician automatically applies to both intensity and rhythm while staying within the limits as directed in the score (and known period style performance practice) are really all we have.

All you've written of is how you feel about expressing emotion through playing, with no mention at all of the means to make the music expressive: this makes little or no sense to me, your statements seeming rather an irrelevant confession of sorts.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

exaltation said:


> I am a classical cellist, as is my mother. I am the type of artist who is extremely uninhibited emotionally when I play, I feel the emotion very strongly, and I communicate how strongly I feel it by the way I play. ...I realize that some people just don't express outwardly what they are feeling which is a viable explanation for this.


My daughter is a cellist and my mother is a violinist. Both feel the emotion of the music they play, and they express that emotion using their instruments. In this sense they would agree with the first part of the above. While my daughter is slightly more _physically_ expressive, neither strongly expresses that emotion outwardly with their bodies or faces. Personally, when any of us sees a musician physically expressing the emotion of the music in a demonstrative manner, we find that expression distracting. I prefer the music to move me and agree with million's comment below.



millionrainbows said:


> I think orchestral players _do_ feel the drama of the music, but just don't show it. And _the "drama" is in the music itself,_ so I don't feel it's the player's responsibility to be a "conveyor of drama" except in his playing; but not in physical gestures or expressions.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

PetrB said:


> I am confused by what you say of 'feeling' and the way of 'expressing it through the instrument,' because the only way to get any form of expression in the music to be heard _is by technique._
> 
> Technique is the tool box which lets us make the music sound at all expressive to the audience: accuracy, control of tone color, phrasing, articulation, the micro agogic which a good musician automatically applies to both intensity and rhythm while staying within the limits as directed in the score (and known period style performance practice) are really all we have.
> 
> All you've written of is how you feel about expressing emotion through playing, with no mention at all of the means to make the music expressive: this makes little or no sense to me, your statements seeming rather an irrelevant confession of sorts.


I am probably wrong, but... the OP may be using the term 'technique' to mean 'mechanics'. Some folks use the latter term to describe musicianship minus the aesthetic subtleties - the emotional 'colorings' - the 'touch'. But body language isn't really involved in that. The OP must be referring to something that wouldn't be present in a sound-only recording.

So never mind.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't know if orchestral musicians don't feel deep emotions when they play . But outward appearance doesn't necessarily mean they don't . I've played who knows how many concerts as a horn player in orchestras , concert bands, opera companies, chamber ensembles etc , and I certainly have felt great emotion and excitement at times, depending on the circumstances . If the performance is really going well, certainly .
Some orchestra musicians become cynical, burned out and apathetic after many years of playing, 
but you can find people like this in every field .


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## stanchinsky (Nov 19, 2012)

I can say as a pianist that when I play I find that making faces/ moving about unnecessarily inhibits my playing. I'm kind of a statue when I play but there are plenty of players that I know of that are a lot more emotional outwardly that are no doubt amazing (and way better then myself) . I think your being judgmental when you say that the orchestral players are not 'feeling it' (although you do mention that you realize that some people just don't express outwardly). I think what your missing is that music is expression through _sound_ not movement. _Listen_ rather then look at what the player is doing, then make judgments as to whether or not they are 'feeling it'. But be aware that just because it isn't being played how you would play it doesn't mean that they are not expressing themselves. I think you should look into ballet (although it's not my thing) you may find the synthesis of dance and music very gratifying.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I am confused by what you say of 'feeling' and the way of 'expressing it through the instrument,' because the only way to get any form of expression in the music to be heard _is by technique._
> 
> Technique is the tool box which lets us make the music sound at all expressive to the audience: accuracy, control of tone color, phrasing, articulation, the micro agogic which a good musician automatically applies to both intensity and rhythm while staying within the limits as directed in the score (and known period style performance practice) are really all we have.
> 
> All you've written of is how you feel about expressing emotion through playing, with no mention at all of the means to make the music expressive: this makes little or no sense to me, your statements seeming rather an irrelevant confession of sorts.


ADD: Gestures, facial expressions, body attitude can all 'convey' something to an audience. A minimum, if any at all are desired.
The more you gesticulate as it is not related to the physical act of playing, the more you lose force that could go into the playing and come out as 'expressive sound.'

It is best to assume that the audience is blind, and focus all your energy on getting sound and expression out through the instrument. The rest, other than a normal releasing of natural tension because one is performing, is 'mugging' or 'hamming it up.'
Some people loved watching the hyper-dramatic Leonard Bernstein conduct, some: the rest thought it was wildly self-indulgent and so distracting they had to close their eyes if they were in attendance when he was conducting.


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## exaltation (Nov 22, 2012)

wow, I think I'd like to see a maximum amount of gestures and facial expressions in a live performance.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

exaltation said:


> wow, I think I'd like to see a maximum amount of gestures and facial expressions in a live performance.


The music not enough for you, then?


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

exaltation said:


> wow, I think I'd like to see a maximum amount of gestures and facial expressions in a live performance.




You must really like Lang Lang then, right?


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

exaltation said:


> I have always had this thought that if the members in the orchestra looked like how the music felt, that many more people would come to the concerts.


I think this actually puts off a lot of people.


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## exaltation (Nov 22, 2012)

I do love lang lang!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

to the OP: you may enjoy Lindsey Stirling, she is a modern violinist. She puts quite a lot of a physical show dancing while she plays. I rather enjoy what she does. That said, that's a bit different than what you're discussing, conveying emotion through physical expression, facial features, gestures, etc. I don't mind that within reason. Really intense ones I actually find distracting though and don't particularly care for them.


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

I get quite emotional listening to classical music. I am an extremely reserved person and never show my emotions on my sleeve. That is why I enjoy classical music so much. At the end of the day, I can retreat the the privacy of my studio/study and truly feel emotions without worrying about other people seeing. 

In fact, I'll let you in on a little secret: Yesterday, while listening to Darius Milhaud's "Piano Sonata No. I, Mvt.I," I started to get teary-eyed because it was so hauntingly beautiful and strangely intense. How embarrassing would that have been if I were in public. Perhaps that is why I like to listen to music alone?


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

the japanese are always still but the sound is good.

i heard one jazz composer say she wanted to get as many black people for the orchestra as they sound better than stiff people.


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