# How multilingual are you?



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is another chance for some of us losers to show off in cyberspace. How many languages can you speak or program?

I speak 2 languages: English and Cantonese. I'm sure many of you can easily beat that.

I can program in Basic, Fortran77, VMS, Pascal, C, Java. Any nerds bigger than me in that department?


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

Best

German
Polish
Russian

Good

English
Latin
Classic Greek

Ok

French

Some

Dutch
Norwegian/Swedish
Italian


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

You probably forgot at least reading some Danish on your list, given its proximity to the other Scandinavian languages, German and English ? .


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> You probably forgot at least reading some Danish on your list, given its proximity to the other Scandinavian languages, German and English ? .


Ja they are so much alike I normally only list Norwegian because I have relatives there. If I travel I may be told that I used the wrong word but it is ok they know what ai mean.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Swedish and Norwegian speech is much clearer and better articulated, whereas Danish has become more sloppy in speech than it was half a century ago, often making it rather difficult for foreigners to understand when they hear it. 
We keep the elder, more transparent way of spelling, though. But classic Norwegian is probably the most pleasant among the Scandinavian languages to listen to, followed by Swedish. 
Still, Scandinavia has a lot of dialects that can be surprisingly different from the main languages.


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual.

What do you call a person who speaks three or more languages? Polylingual.

What do you call a person who speaks one language? American.


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

RockyIII said:


> What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
> 
> What do you call a person who speaks three or more languages? Polylingual.
> 
> What do you call a person who speaks one language? American.


Brits are bad for only one. The Brit boy I am friends with at school knows many languages surpised.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

RockyIII said:


> What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
> 
> What do you call a person who speaks three or more languages? Polylingual.
> 
> What do you call a person who speaks one language? American.


What do you call a person who wants to get in trouble on a forum? C*nylingual.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Native: Dutch
Fluent: English, German
Reasonable: French

I can manage basic subjects like restaurants and hotels in Italian if required. And I know about a hundred words in Mandarin, and a few in Shanghainese.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Native - English
Did 5 years French at school and can still read a bit. Might manage a simple conversation, but have forgotten a lot of vocabulary.
Did a year’s German correspondence course, could probably manage in a shop or restaurant. 
Also a year of Spanish at night school but remember very little.
Also 4 years Latin which I loved. Always on the lookout for a Roman soldier to chat to 

I think it’s shameful that a lot of British schools no longer have foreign languages in the curriculum.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Old Russian maxim: one should speak French to one's friends, German to one's enemies, Italian to one's lover, and Spanish to God. But Russian surpasses them all for all uses (say the Russians).


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

On a good day, I can make myself understood in Spanish, English, French, Italian, German and Portuguese.

However, I can program only in SAS, and I'm rather rusty.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

_ofiaZay, elcomeway otay ethay alkTay assicalClay orumfay onay attermay atwhay anguagelay youyay eakspay._


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

Native - français Québécois
Dual language schooling - grades 1 through 12 - le français international (because no one outside of Québéc is able to comprehend français Québécois) and English (Canadian).


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I was born and educated (sic) in England. I therefore have a miserable command of any languages.

Fluent: English
Half-way competent: French
A few handy phrases and newspaper headlines: Dutch, Spanish, Irish, Welsh


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

I took Latin and Spanish in school but remember muy poco. Thus my "American" joke above about only speaking one language.

During World War II, my father was in the US Army and learned the Russian language to be a translator. After the war, he was a graduate teaching assistant in European history and also tutored Russian on the side. My mother was in graduate school at the same university for mathematics and decided it would be a good idea to learn Russian since a lot of advances in the field were being made at the time by Russians. They were introduced by mutual friends for that purpose, but she didn't learn any Russian. Instead, they fell in love and got married.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

A baseball coach once said about one of his players that he can speak four languages and can't hit in any of them.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I was born and educated (sic) in England. I therefore have a miserable command of any languages.
> 
> Fluent: English
> Half-way competent: French
> A few handy phrases and newspaper headlines: Dutch, Spanish, Irish, Welsh


I'm British too, so *snap* - well, apart from the Dutch and the Welsh.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

English and Pittsburghese


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2019)

Native English speaker.

Fluent in German, au 's bitzli Schwiizertüütsch.

Very, very basic Hungarian (did some CD courses from Pimsler pursuant to spending 1.5 months there adopting a little girl). By far the hardest.


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

DrMike said:


> Native English speaker.
> 
> Fluent in German, au 's bitzli Schwiizertüütsch.
> 
> Very, very basic Hungarian (did some CD courses from Pimsler pursuant to spending 1.5 months there adopting a little girl). By far the hardest.


My Uncle (Father side) is marrieid to lovely Hungarian lady I have spent much time there. I could be wrong but I believe so that Hungarian is not an Indo-European language similar to Estonian and Finish. This is what makes it much harder although I love both Estonia and Hungry very much.


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## sethmadsen (Jan 29, 2019)

DrMike said:


> Native English speaker.
> 
> Fluent in German, au 's bitzli Schwiizertüütsch.


hehe -Schwiizertüütsch

I also studied German for 6 years and tested advanced for written and spoken. I myself and more in the Boarisch camp, but also learned me some Fränkisch. Leider spreche ich weniger und weniger, und hoffe, dass ich in 10 Jahre immernoch Deutsch könnte. Thats the first sentence in German I've written in at least a year .


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

Native in: English, Dutch and Spanish (Languages I was literally born into).

Later on learned French and German. My computer career was initiated all in French.

Then there is a smattering of Italian. I can read it well (as well as some Portuguese).

For the interest of it, I have learned some Nahuatl, but actually never really use it other than to read.

Back in the day when I worked with computers, I had mastered quite a number of computer languages, but that is now past history for me.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

I've been convinced we are born with language , and I've heard it described as old , old language . I will think with it , and then my English is a translation . I use these two languages . The primal language is best for art : art is good for survival .


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

My old Latin teacher in high school was born in Greece. He told us that he learned Latin early and became fluent in Latin/Greek translation back and forth. When he emigrated to the USA, he worked on his Latin/English doggedly, but continued to think in Greek. So he said he went through a long period where he would read his English (newspapers, novels, etc.), translate them instantly in his head to Latin, and then instantly from Latin into Greek.

One thing that intrigues me is the ubiquity of English as the common medium of communication in the EU. It will be strange indeed if Brexit removes the UK from the EU and yet English remains the _Lingua Franca _ of Continental communication.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Native in English
Rusty, but was once fluent in Czech
Still ok in French
Discovered I was still ok in German on a recent holiday in Vienna
Rediscovering I was once quite good at Latin, now my elder daughter has started learning it.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> My old Latin teacher in high school was born in Greece. He told us that he learned Latin early and became fluent in Latin/Greek translation back and forth. When he emigrated to the USA, he worked on his Latin/English doggedly, but continued to think in Greek. So he said he went through a long period where he would read his English (newspapers, novels, etc.), translate them instantly in his head to Latin, and then instantly from Latin into Greek.
> 
> One thing that intrigues me is the ubiquity of English as the common medium of communication in the EU. It will be strange indeed if Brexit removes the UK from the EU and yet English remains the _Lingua Franca _ of Continental communication.


I think that's the main reason why we in the UK tend not to learn other languages. We don't know which are going to be useful. A friend of mine did Spanish at school but got a good job with Volvo and was initially sent to Sweden where they all speak English. But then he was sent to their German depot for a few months to train some technicians, so he had to do an intensive course in German including a lot of technical terminology. 
My mum went to what was called a commercial school in Liverpool in the 1910s where Spanish was taught with shorthand and typing as Liverpool did a lot of trade with South America.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Norwegian and English here. Can read a bit German, French and Spanish, and Swedish & Danish (of course). I can sing a song in Swahili that I get to show off whenever I meet East Africans  I'm glad I wasn't born in Greece because I don't know a word Greek.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

What's the trouble with adopting a Universal Language ? The trouble is not universal , but it's an ornery one .


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

Strange Magic said:


> My old Latin teacher in high school was born in Greece. He told us that he learned Latin early and became fluent in Latin/Greek translation back and forth. When he emigrated to the USA, he worked on his Latin/English doggedly, but continued to think in Greek. So he said he went through a long period where he would read his English (newspapers, novels, etc.), translate them instantly in his head to Latin, and then instantly from Latin into Greek.
> 
> One thing that intrigues me is the ubiquity of English as the common medium of communication in the EU. It will be strange indeed if Brexit removes the UK from the EU and yet English remains the _Lingua Franca _ of Continental communication.


Agree but I think it will most countries teach English. My English is ok I just still think in German my teacher says I must stop if I ever hope to improve. It is possible when I stay in Polen for few days I think like a Pole.

I don't think EU will eject english French will push for French and maybe German for it's language. I do not see the smaller countries Netherlands, Denmark, Poland etc accept not English as they all teach it in school.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Tikoo Tuba said:


> What's the trouble with adopting a Universal Language ? The trouble is not universal , but it's an ornery one .


I did a year's Esperanto at evening class. It was very easy but for some reason it just didn't stick in my brain and I didn't retain it at all.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> One thing that intrigues me is the ubiquity of English as the common medium of communication in the EU. It will be strange indeed if Brexit removes the UK from the EU and yet English remains the _Lingua Franca _ of Continental communication.


English was always the Lingua Franca before we joined the EU so perhaps not so strange.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

English is my only language

Computers: I used to do a lot of programming in Basic and Fortran. Haven't done it in over 25 years, but pretty sure it would not be hard to pick it up again.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

LezLee said:


> I did a year's Esperanto at evening class. It was very easy but for some reason it just didn't stick in my brain and I didn't retain it at all.


I still speak and read Esperanto. I have a subscription to the UEA magazine (which incidentally is here in NL, Rotterdam).

Others: English (native), Dutch (the language I use day-to-day here), German (language of my grandparents), French (though it's slipping from under-use). I learned a good deal of Sranantongo, the language of Suriname from my ex-wife, but don't have much use for it these days. Since 2016 I've been muddling through Spanish, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be sticking quite so well.

I have a smattering of other languages, though they wouldn't be of any use trapped in a foreign country. In fact I would probably get into more trouble if I tried using them.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Native: Dutch.
Fluent: English, German, Czech. Have worked as a tri-lingual official guide in Prague.
(I did guide quite a number of Czech groups of deaf people in Holland, who taught me their sign language. Still remember the sign for 'Dutch': follow the triangle shape of a Volendam folklore cap, but not too big, because that's the sign for 'nun'.)
Reading: Latin, Greek, Hebrew.
Reading and pretending: French.
Enjoying: Russian, thanks to my wife.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

LezLee said:


> English was always the Lingua Franca before we joined the EU so perhaps not so strange.


I've read that, besides the former economic and political centrality of the U.K. and the USA, English established its own centrality by being relatively easy to learn (no genders, few different endings, little matching of this to that), and because of its enormous vocabulary. As I remember (probably inaccurately), English is described as a synthetic language, and not an analytic language. But its spelling is hopeless: _rain, rein, reign_ it's all in _vain, vein, vane_.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Strange Magic said:


> I've read that, besides the former economic and political centrality of the U.K. and the USA, English established its own centrality by being relatively easy to learn (no genders, few different endings, little matching of this to that), and because of its enormous vocabulary. As I remember (probably inaccurately), English is described as a synthetic language, and not an analytic language. But its spelling is hopeless: _rain, rein, reign_ it's all in _vain, vein, vane_.


Just imagine how the world would learn and speak Dutch, if the dream of Czar Peter the Great would have become reality. He wished that all Russians would start to speak Dutch as he did. But the Dutch were not interested. Just like they left Manhattan to become English (the same happened with South Africa & Australia & New Zealand).


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

TxllxT said:


> Just imagine how the world would learn and speak Dutch, if the dream of Czar Peter the Great would have become reality. He wished that all Russians would start to speak Dutch as he did. But the Dutch were not interested. Just like they left Manhattan to become English (the same happened with South Africa & Australia & New Zealand).


When you add India and Indonesia to the list, it becomes quite a lost Dutch linguistic empire.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> When you add India and Indonesia to the list, it becomes quite a lost Dutch linguistic empire.


India? I've never known of any significant Dutch language pockets in India. Indonesia yes, but even there it has rapidly declined since independence.

The problem with Afrikaans in South Africa was that it became a language despised by the majority; the language of the boss. So they deliberately spoke English as a protest.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

eugeneonagain said:


> India? I've never known of any significant Dutch language pockets in India. Indonesia yes, but even there it has rapidly declined since independence.


I post about Dutch in TxllxT's What If? sense. Here is Wikipedia on Dutch India:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_India


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2019)

Zofia said:


> My Uncle (Father side) is marrieid to lovely Hungarian lady I have spent much time there. I could be wrong but I believe so that Hungarian is not an Indo-European language similar to Estonian and Finish. This is what makes it much harder although I love both Estonia and Hungry very much.


You are correct. While some more modern words are similar to other Germanic and Romance languages, Hungarian (or Magyar, as they call it), is completely unrelated. The grammar and the words are completely foreign. Estonian and Finnish are related, but are over 1000 years separated, and as I understand it, are no longer mutually intelligible.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

The mutual intelligibility between Finnish and Estonian is far greater than Finnish-Hungarian. The latter relationship is popularly cited because, I suppose, the greater geographical separation makes it a more exciting fact. However it's no different than the movement of Angles/Saxons from Germany to England (when neither had those names!). We know these languages are related and belong to the same group, but the relationship is not considered particularly special or exciting.

I suppose the relocation of Finno-Ugric people from one place ultimately to another far away makes the link less immediate, but there are also other members of that language group, between the two, much closer to both. So Finnish-Hungarian may be related, but don't really move in the same circles.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

I haven't had much interest in Esperanto . Why ? For a world language it's too Euro-centric , and we all know where the Earth center really is . Within mother . There is an ancient petroglyph site in the desert I have visited that offers explanation . One reads that old language as expressive geometry . If ever star-people arrive and think to have a chat with me , I'd be all geometric about it . The period at the end of this sentence could be one example of geometric sense . And , you know , it's even rather consistent in it's meaning . With that , one might have a guess at the meaning of the dot(period) in the letter* i* .
It's funny .


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> A baseball coach once said about one of his players that he can speak four languages and can't hit in any of them.


I heard that that comes from a director, in a comment about Ingrid Bergman... "she speaks five languages, and she can't act in any of them."


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Tikoo Tuba said:


> I haven't had much interest in Esperanto . Why ? For a world language it's too Euro-centric , and we all know where the Earth center really is . Within mother . There is an ancient petroglyph site in the desert I have visited that offers explanation . One reads that old language as expressive geometry . If ever star-people arrive and think to have a chat with me , I'd be all geometric about it . The period at the end of this sentence could be one example of geometric sense . And , you know , it's even rather consistent in it's meaning . With that , one might have a guess at the meaning of the dot(period) in the letter* i* .
> It's funny .


I don't put much store in the chances of successfully ordering a beer or telling someone you love them using the language of geometry.

Esperanto may teeter toward Eurocentrism, but it is popular in China and South-East Asia. China has one of only two major News services in Esperanto.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I studied Esperanto in my teens, having inherited a book on it from my optimistic socialist grandfather. But upon reflection, Esperanto is best regarded as a hobby language like learning Klingon or Elvish. One's time is better spent becoming tolerably fluent in a real-world language.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> I studied Esperanto in my teens, having inherited a book on it from my optimistic socialist grandfather. But upon reflection, Esperanto is best regarded as a hobby language like learning Klingon or Elvish. One's time is better spent becoming tolerably fluent in a real-world language.


Yes you're right. There are only 2 million speakers worldwide so the likelihood of meeting another speaker when you really need to must be incredibly remote!


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

eugeneonagain said:


> I don't put much store in the chances of successfully ordering a beer or telling someone you love them using the language of geometry.











Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Strange Magic said:


> When you add India and Indonesia to the list, it becomes quite a lost Dutch linguistic empire.


You know, in the 17th century people were also very concerned with what would have been the original language before the Tower of Babel... Simon Stevin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Stevin proofed that Dutch was the original one. Funny, such 'scientific' discussions.


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

TxllxT said:


> Just imagine how the world would learn and speak Dutch, if the dream of Czar Peter the Great would have become reality. He wished that all Russians would start to speak Dutch as he did. But the Dutch were not interested. Just like they left Manhattan to become English (the same happened with South Africa & Australia & New Zealand).


Brits bought New Amsterdam from you no? Did you not also lose a war to them in Africa? If only you had joined us we could have crushed the Brits!!

Best Lands in Black


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Zofia said:


> Brits bought New Amsterdam from you no? Did you not also lose a war to them in Africa? If only you had joined us we could have crushed the Brits!!
> 
> Best Lands in Black
> 
> View attachment 112525


Bought? Not exactly. It was a forced deal by which the Dutch gained a piece of jungle called Surinam. But no worry, later on they discovered lots of bauxite over there (aluminium). What I like about Russian is the Dutch influence that protruded into their dirty slang... You know, those Dutch seamen in Sint Petersburg were so pious and they never did swear...


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

[QUOTEBrits bought New Amsterdam from you no? Did you not also lose a war to them in Africa? If only you had joined us we could have crushed the Brits!!QUOTE]

Why did you want to 'crush the Brits'? Do you still feel that way?


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

eugeneonagain said:


> I don't put much store in the chances of successfully ordering a beer or telling someone you love them using the language of geometry.
> 
> Esperanto may teeter toward Eurocentrism, but it is popular in China and South-East Asia. China has one of only two major News services in Esperanto.


Positive experiences are needed , and then faith . Anyway , one thing you already know about a language of geometry is it's usefulness for pointing . When I ask my dog where something is she points with her nose .

Yes , I'd think Esperanto is less confusing than English . Too many English words have the same sound/different meanings . Wee can grin and bear it . How else can you be happy to have a can of beer ?

The up-rising spiral , a geometric word ... this I've seen it a couple times in nature . Twice is nice . After the second occurrence I could believe to hold an understanding of its meaning . That's one way to learn . I also wrote a little book about language , but anymore I think it's as well to share that language as feeling , as music .

beer=laughing magical substance

_Ok , Mister , I hear you - I get you ... what's it going to be , beer or ganja ?_
That's when you might just point .


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

I’ve just been watching repeats of ‘The Fast Show’ (called ‘Brilliant’ in the US) and realised their ‘Chanel 9’ sketch has the perfect invented language! ‘Scorchio!’


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Thethethethe scorcio chriswaddle boutros, boutros ghali


.....which was nice.


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

LezLee said:


> [QUOTEBrits bought New Amsterdam from you no? Did you not also lose a war to them in Africa? If only you had joined us we could have crushed the Brits!!QUOTE]
> 
> Why did you want to 'crush the Brits'? Do you still feel that way?


I don't really but I play war games with pen and paper or on my computer. I am happy Nazis lost the war IRL but I like to play alt History games like Crusader Kings or Total War. I love Britain IRL was just a joke partly on my country.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

English
Australian
New Zelandian
Canadian 
American
Russian, studied for a few years but have not used much in 50 years.

British seem to be the accepted leading European language much to the annoyance of the French.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

Anglophone (which is a bit of luck at this particular point in history)

I have attempted, in decreasing order of success:

French
Latin
German
Italian

I have fallen in love with them all, but German has been the most useful to me because - music! 

I'm currently having a go at Spanish via DuoLingo. It feels like cheating, being so much like Italian, but I'm hoping to be comfortable pronouncing it.

I'd love to get a tiny grasp of some Asian language - Mandarin maybe - since I live in the Eastern hemisphere. I have been given the impression that I would be out of my league.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Phil loves classical said:


> Here is another chance for some of us losers to show off in cyberspace. How many languages can you speak or program?
> 
> I speak 2 languages: English and Cantonese. I'm sure many of you can easily beat that.
> 
> I can program in Basic, Fortran77, VMS, Pascal, C, Java. Any nerds bigger than me in that department?


Besides my Danish native language, I have some knowledge - to a descending degree - of English, Swedish, German, Norwegian, French, Spanish, Italian, plus a little Latin. Am much better at reading those languages than using them grammatically correct, however.
Absolutely no knowledge about computer programming, unfortunately.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> I studied Esperanto in my teens, having inherited a book on it from my optimistic socialist grandfather. But upon reflection, Esperanto is best regarded as a hobby language like learning Klingon or Elvish. One's time is better spent becoming tolerably fluent in a real-world language.





LezLee said:


> Yes you're right. There are only 2 million speakers worldwide so the likelihood of meeting another speaker when you really need to must be incredibly remote!


This sort of talk makes the Esperanto community boil with rage! Esperanto has been handicapped from the start; not because it doesn't measure up, but from hostile powers. It's little known that the Nazis sent Esperantists to camps because the language was considered both 'Jewish' and 'Bolshevik' despite being called 'The International Language' (though we know Mr Hitler's opinions on internationalism).
This also happened in the USSR for a time, which was odd because it had been embraced early on. However, it recovered and survived.

There is a well-known story, which is true, about when in the 1920s the League of Nations was willing to adopt Esperanto and of the eleven delegates just one, the French, voted against. At the time French was already losing its position as the language of diplomacy. This little tantrum just further cemented the position of English.

The question of numbers is one that plagues the Esperanto world. The truth is no-one knows. The '2 million' figure is a mythical number that is simply quoted from article to article, book to book. There is no research behind it. It could be less or more.

Many people miss the point of Esperanto's function, which is not to replace national languages, but to level the field between people of different languages. So that in a meeting of people from different language backgrounds no one national language dominates and no speakers have a communicative upper-hand. The clearing away of difficult idioms and cultural baggage that doesn't translate or may even offend in delicate situations.
There is a curious assumption among non-Esperantists that the language is some kind of basic pidgin which can't convey complicated and sophisticated thoughts. I can tell you now that whatever you can express in French, or English or Spanish or whatever, you can also express in Esperanto. This is no 'Klingon' or other deliberately difficult and limited 'conlang'.

The central question has to be: does it actually work? It certainly does work and there is long-term research to prove it. In the UK several studies have been done teaching Esperanto to primary school children as a 'springboard' into language learning. The rapidity with which these children gained fluency and could speak with one another outstrips other languages taught in the same way at the same age. It also greatly improved that group's further instruction in French - and we know that further languages after learning a second tend to be easier.
There are people who have learned the language at birth and many worldwide groups (Latin America, Eastern Europe, Asia) who speak it fluently. Here's a short video of such a gathering:






Sometimes I am baffled by the hostile responses, and the dismissive ones, since one of the frequently-repeated reasons for learning, which you hear from non-native English speakers, is that they find English 'easy' and easier than many other languages (though one also hears the opposite claim). Which of course is true for the basic structure of English. So why wouldn't Esperanto be even more attractive since it is far easier than English? One answer of course, is the position of English for economic and cultural purposes and the general cachet of the language. Is that good thing? Is it right that the native language of sections of the world that already wield a lot of power should also dominate and direct cultural power?
Just look at this website and how non-native English speakers vary in their participation according to how they communicate.

A short bike ride from where I am sitting there is road and a little monument named in honour of the founder of Esperanto - Ludwig Zamenhof. It was once very active as a language here in the Netherlands, but was displaced by English. In Bialystok, now officially in Poland, which is Zamenhof's birthplace, the authorities there refused to honour a UNESCO-sponsored "Zamenhof Year" in 2017 (the year of his death). A shame I thought.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I think it would be wonderful if Esperanto were widely--nay, universally--promoted as the world's global language. That might just be possible after the world's nations agree and act on AGW, female equality, and global population reduction to sustainability. Anytime soon.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

eugeneonagain said:


> This sort of talk makes the Esperanto community boil with rage! Esperanto has been handicapped from the start; not because it doesn't measure up, but from hostile powers. It's little known that the Nazis sent Esperantists to camps because the language was considered both 'Jewish' and 'Bolshevik' despite being called 'The International Language' (though we know Mr Hitler's opinions on internationalism).
> This also happened in the USSR for a time, which was odd because it had been embraced early on. However, it recovered and survived.
> 
> There is a well-known story, which is true, about when in the 1920s the League of Nations was willing to adopt Esperanto and of the eleven delegates just one, the French, voted against. At the time French was already losing its position as the language of diplomacy. This little tantrum just further cemented the position of English.
> ...




















Two photos from Texel. The monument almost was turned into a parking lot for bicycles, when people protested. So everything got restored.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Two additional thoughts: Should not a true global language that avoided linguistic favoritism have its own devised alphabet and script, brand-new? And should not every "word" be also be totally new, rather than picking scraps from the bones of a handful of pre-existing European languages? Esperanto is/was a noble effort and I honor it. But in an era when Arabic, Hindi, Mandarin, and Urdu, and several other Asian languages--many totally unrelated--are spoken by billions, it becomes maybe less and less tenable to advance such a Eurocentric language as Esperanto.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Two additional thoughts: Should not a true global language that avoided linguistic favoritism have its own devised alphabet and script, brand-new? And should not every "word" be also be totally new, rather than picking scraps from the bones of a handful of pre-existing European languages? Esperanto is/was a noble effort and I honor it. But in an era when Arabic, Hindi, Mandarin, and Urdu, and several other Asian languages--many totally unrelated--are spoken by billions, it becomes maybe less and less tenable to advance such a Eurocentric language as Esperanto.


No, I don't think it needs to. The experience of how Turkish adopted a modified Latin alphabet and thus simplified written literacy (which had a huge effect upon literacy) demonstrates the wise use of existing knowledge systems.

Further creation generally leads to new complications and this is very evident in language.

Plus, Esperanto is not merely a hotchpotch of words culled from European languages. . It has used root forms, but the system of use - the endings etc - is singular to the language. The agglutinative nature of its word-building appeals to, among others, Chinese speakers. I attended a group discussion about this very thing at an international congress.
Even though all those languages you mention are spoken by billions, they are still all clamouring to learn English, which is much more difficult, expensive and more of a centrism than 'Eurocentric'.

Everything has some flaws and Esperanto is no exception, but they are small. I've spent a lot of time over years countering these and they are always the same objections. It's curious that no-one ever questions the qualities of a national language in much the same way, even though they may be difficult, awkward or foisted upon populations who struggle with them.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

The library I worked at in Sheffield was in a very multicultural area with a large population of Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Indian families. They spoke several different languages, mainly Urdu, Gujarati, Punjabi and Bengali and dialects within those groups. Most of the men spoke reasonable English but their wives were usually at home with the children and often their husbands didn’t want (allow?) them to go out and mix with other cultures and actively discouraged them from learning English. 
However most families came en masse to the library on Saturdays and it was very gratifying to see the children translating for their parents and were able to switch from Urdu to Punjabi etc. without thinking about it. Quite amusing that they spoke English with a Yorkshire accent.
We stocked a number of Asian books which were a complete nightmare to shelve as some are printed how we think of as back to front and of course we couldn’t read the characters. Quite a challenge!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

TxllxT said:


> Two photos from Texel. The monument almost was turned into a parking lot for bicycles, when people protested. So everything got restored.


Pretty easy to understand. I've always wondered though, about the byways of pronounciation as regards Esperanto - depending on their origins, people will - intuitively at least - pronounce the letters and spellings differently.

Reminds me of the story that goes about the Danish author Hans Christian Andersen: he taught himself English by reading books etc, but since he was taking the spellings quite literally and with a Danish background, nobody understood a word the first times he actually tried speaking it.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The truth is that English is the successful Esperanto. It is a hodge-podge of the scraps of other languages, has the other simplicities I posted of before and it is spoken by billions already. English and its success is a primary reason why Esperanto will always remain stillborn; a hobby language for the enthusiast.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

English is the successful English.That's all. It is also 'spoken' and understood by fewer people than is imagined. The common;y-cited foreign-English areas like Western Europe there is a tendency for speakers to grossly overestimate their abilities. In other areas, it just isn't there or has a tiny presence. This can be easily verified by travelling about.

I'm not naive; I know the position of English, but the unquestioned acceptance of this situation is not good. It's true that Esperanto is generally a language learned out of interest or for the love of it - a 'hobby' language as you put it. I wouldn't want to let that nomenclature mislead people into believing that it is some kind of low-grade toy.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

According to this Wikipedia entry, English leads the pack if we combine those speaking it as a primary or as their second language:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

The universal language could well be self-defining ; decipherable with a scientific logic key . 

The language LINCOS was one such attempt , and it had been considered for inclusion in the Voyager Project . Perhaps , the scientists thought , aliens might like it . They sent a Golden Disc along on that spacecraft headed into deep space - and a record-player - and confident aliens would find its presentation of human music enlightening . LINCOS had to stay home . It needed development . It has needed children to play with it .


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> According to this Wikipedia entry, English leads the pack if we combine those speaking it as a primary or as their second language:
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers


That is mere data. I can go about here asking people if they speak/are fluent in English. What people say and what the reality is often do not tally.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

eugeneonagain said:


> That is mere data. I can go about here asking people if they speak/are fluent in English. What people say and what the reality is often do not tally.


Mere data v. anecdote. Fluency: how defined?


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Mere data v. anecdote. Fluency: how defined?


How defined indeed.

I don't care to go on with it. You're right, Esperanto is a diabolical failure and always was. Long live English (even though large swathes of those who have it as a native language can't even speak it properly).


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Strange Magic: "Esperanto is/was a noble effort and I honor it.". I also honor your fluency and your dedication. :tiphat:


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Native: Serbian

Advanced: English, Italian


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

English (DUH!) and Spanish.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

English
Vout - I'm a Slim Gaillard fan.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

After Estonian, my beloved hobby English, followed by German and a passive understanding of Finnish and Hungarian.

I don't include Russian on the list, because I refuse to speak it.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

starthrower said:


> English
> Vout - I'm a Slim Gaillard fan.


Oh yes. Slim was as a true voutie linguist. (*)


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Kivimees said:


> I don't include Russian on the list, because I refuse to speak it.


Gosh! why is that?


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Kivimees said:


> After Estonian, my beloved hobby English, followed by German and a passive understanding of Finnish and Hungarian.
> 
> I don't include Russian on the list, because I refuse to speak it.


Grammatically, Russian is a fascinating language, it's very interesting to see that the verbs "subjugate', "assassinate" and "annexe" are nowadays categorised as regular....


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