# Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?



## ArtMusic

Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?

It appears to me some elder members tend to bark on younger members here far too easily, as if it's a school master's working hour and students are at school. 

What do you think? Just your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.


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## moody

ArtMusic said:


> Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?
> 
> It appears to me some elder members tend to bark on younger members here far too easily, as if it's a school master's working hour and students are at school.
> 
> What do you think? Just your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.


Well that was quick,do you think you may be developing a complex?


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## ArtMusic

moody said:


> Well that was quick,do you think you may be developing a complex?


No. But your comment encouraged me to vote my misspelled "yes".

I hope no Nazism gets mentioned in this thread.


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## Kieran

The spelling Nazis will wonder what school you went to, but tell them to fudd off and you should be grand...


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## moody

ArtMusic said:


> No. But your comment encouraged me to vote my misspelled "yes".
> 
> I hope no Nazism gets mentioned in this thread.


Seven of my friends are "young" and they all asked to be a friend , we are in touch all the time.
It will be interesting to see what comments you glean because I seldom see condescending treatment of the younger crowd.
Some playful humour sometimes and we know that certain members are somewhat flowery in their prose ,but that's all I see.
Also ,I believe that the mods keep an eye open for this type of thing.


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## Ingélou

I voted 'no'. When I see 'geezers' posting in reply to 'whippersnappers', I see helpfulness and/or banter. The 'whippersnappers' seem to enjoy bantering back, too.

There is unpleasantness sometimes on TC, as everywhere in this world, but I don't think it's generation-related.

(PS - Several hours later. ArtMusic, I *love* 'Yed'. It's an inspired typo. It sounds hip & carefree.  I think we must use it on TC for when we *really* love something. As in - Jean-Baptiste Lully? *Yedddddd*!)


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## Crudblud

There's a generation gap by virtue of us being from different generations. Does this affect our interactions? Only marginally. I have noticed some of the geezers offering advice to the whippersnappers from time to time, and there is a slight tendency for the advice to be misinterpreted as mean spirited criticism by the receiving party, but overall it seems to get sorted out fairly quickly and without much bad blood accruing. The gaps between different political ideologies are far more prominent and the cause of more bitterness here than probably anything else—of course, TC is not special in that regard.


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?
> 
> It appears to me some elder members tend to bark on younger members here far too easily, as if it's a school master's working hour and students are at school.
> 
> What do you think? Just your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.


Assuming that any of the responses to the 'How old are you poll?' can be taken at face value, those who make intelligent and polite posts on matters of substance are of all ages. Exactly the same can be said of those whose posts are of poor quality.

By all means check me out, but I think I post _on _the subject, not _to _the poster. I see no reason to cut 'the young' any slack or 'the old' any extra deference. I try to treat everyone as an equal: I'm not really interested in how old anyone is here, not even moody or regressivetransphobe!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Everyone here just enjoys to banter at everyone else regardless of age...........


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I go for yed


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## Kieran

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Everyone here just enjoys to banter at everyone else regardless of age...........


Exactly. I don't even know the real name or gender, let alone the ages, of most of yiz...


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## Ukko

*First off*, you whippersnappers are using 'banter' incorrectly. You can't _banter at_ somebody; banter is a cooperative effort in both directions.

*Second off*, whether you know it or not, you whippersnappers _need_ all the instruction/correction we geezers can give. The chore is tiring, and most of us don't have the stamina we once did, but the mental exercise and typing helps us get to sleep.

[Any questions regarding the _quality_ of the instruction are irrelevant. Accept all of it with grace. If it's rubbish, toss it over your shoulder along with the pinch of salt. Which leads us to another important _instruction_: Toss a pinch of salt over your shoulder every day, just _in case_ you have spilled some.]


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> I hope no Nazism gets mentioned in this thread.


LOL. 3rd post in... .:lol:


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## joen_cph

Voted yes because at times it is a simple fact concerning fields of knowledge and approach.


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## ArtMusic

MacLeod said:


> ...those who make intelligent and polite posts ...


Oh yed, I should take node of that to make intelligend and polide posts.


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## Vesteralen

We geezers have gaps of our own to worry about.


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## KenOC

ArtMusic said:


> I hope no Nazism gets mentioned in this thread.


I suspect you are, just now, too late. :tiphat:


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## Sid James

ArtMusic said:


> Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?
> 
> ....


I think there is, but put it this way, I've had just as much discussions of all types - from agreeing, to disagreeing, to in between - with members of one demographic as the other. Well, who I percieve as younger or older, since its not always obvious.


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## PetrB

"Yed" there is a generation gap, and a "trained / informed" gap, which is more to the nub of the question, I think.

I was more than amused / irritated when I looked at one of those generic TC "let's make a list" posts, that on chamber music:
Several pages of empiric or made-up definitions as to "what is chamber music" needed to happen -- town meeting style -- until things somewhat settled in.

My irritation? Anyone can readily look up chamber music in a myriad of sources, and get same / near identical definitions. I would think by the time you'd signed up for a classical music forum, that you might be willing to look up some basic terminology, if not in methodical order, then as it comes up.... 

Ditto for many other basics, rhythm vs. meter, other terminology... after all, even if you are asking a fundamental question (which most, even the very practiced and advanced, would happily answer) you can write a clearer question / post.

But no, instead, you see far too often, "To me, romantic is..." this in discussing Romantic period music. Instead of a hair of clarity, you get Babel About Music on a Music forum.

I would hope no one would expect "total musical literacy" on a forum like TC -- that is a good deal of its purpose, to let in those who are listeners who not only want to discuss but want to learn and know more, and it is not an exclusive members only club for those with a full training and one or more degrees in music 

So my irritation I suppose is -- take a moment of time before you ask for time from others


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## regressivetransphobe

The new generation is just catching up to opinions I had and grew out of when I was 13. I'm not old but I feel it.


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## arpeggio

*Gap between musicians and non-musicians.*

I am with PetrB and his "'trained / informed' gap, which is more to the nub of the question" statement.

Even though I have a Master Degree in Music Education, I am a lowly amateur musician. There are many individuals here whose experiences and training are far superior to mine.

I had some excellent professors in music theory and history. They taught me a great deal about the history and the progression of not only classical music but popular music as well. I had some outstanding jazz instructors. One of the concepts that Dr. Luce, Dr. Cowling and Dr. Hunkins taught me is that the music of the Second Viennese School grew out of the music of Mahler. Yet whenever one tries to discuss the evolution of chromaticism in Western European Music some members show up with little or no training or experience at actually performing music telling me that 90% of what I learned in college is bogus.

I have lost track of how many times I have been subjected to, "Since you know so much, why don't explain it" remarks. Whenever I have tried, I became the target of many pejorative statements. I have lost track of how many times I have been accused of being an "arrogant elitist".

I realize my shortcomings as a writer as many of my speeling and greymatical errors can atteest too. Many of my contributions could have been better. I did the best I could.

As a result I avoid many types of discussions. I have a rule that I avoid spending more than fifteen minutes trying to respond to an inaccurate observation concerning music. If a member calls me a "contemptuous twit" I just let them have the last word and move on.

I am a sixty-six year old cancer survivor. I have better uses of the time I have left than trying to convince somebody that classical music did not die in 1911 or that I am not "b*tcr*pcr*zy". Like tonight I had a marvelous evening babysitting my grandchildren. My granddaughter is studying ballet. We had a great time watching a DVD of _The Firebird_ and _The Rite of Spring_. Both my grandson and she loved the DVD. She was showing me some of steps she has learned and my grandson lifted her a few times mimicking what they saw on the DVD.

(Disclaimer: I have spent more than fifteen minutes on this entry so I will have to let it stand as is warts and all. I realize that many will disagree. There is really nothing more than I can add.)


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## Guest

Of course there is as on 98.44566% of forums, now don't upset the grumpy old farts


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## ArtMusic

Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


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## Ingélou

I regularly *do* discuss music with someone young enough to be my son - my violin teacher!

And I have received *lots of help* on this forum from young contributors who are studying music at university.

Honestly, I think there may be a few times when a young contributor feels that an older one is 'crusty', and the old one decides that the young one is 'cheeky'. But mostly I think the interaction is beneficial to both parties.

I *love* it that there are so many young people on this forum.


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## violadude

I think there is a maturity gap more so than a generation gap to be honest...


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## PetrB

Ingenue said:


> I voted 'no'. When I see 'geezers' posting in reply to 'whippersnappers', I see helpfulness and/or banter. The 'whippersnappers' seem to enjoy bantering back, too.
> ....
> (PS - Several hours later. ArtMusic, I *love* 'Yed'. It's an inspired typo. It sounds hip & carefree.  I think we must use it on TC for when we *really* love something. As in - Jean-Baptiste Lully? *Yedddddd*!)


Since earliest childhood, I studied / worked with more than earnest adult professional musicians. Those relationships, if you are lucky enough to have them made available, are deeply familial, and I value not only what I learned, but recall them with a great deal of positive sentiment  With family as well as those teachers, I am conditioned to like / love and desire relationships with all generations. Now, in my geezer years, I as much enjoy sometimes being on the other end of that type of relationship.

As to that *Yed*, Ingenue, it struck me exactly the same way. A neologism which I hope sticks around, at least on TC


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


Yes .


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## PetrB

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


A-Yep! ... or rather, *Yed!*


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## mmsbls

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


I love discussing classical music with anyone who has a significant interest in classical music. I probably talk most about it to my daughter (music student and much younger). I love TC because there are those, young and old, who are passionate and/or knowledgeable about classical music. I love to share with them and learn from them. I don't particularly care about their age - only that they are interested in discussing what I wish to discuss or that they can answer my questions.


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## Guest

mmsbls said:


> I love to share with them and learn from them. I don't particularly care about their age - only that they are interested in discussing what I wish to discuss or that they can answer my questions.


Agreed (with the proviso that you are also willing to discuss what _they_ wish to discuss). Which is why the only 'gap' is in the perception of those who think it matters. There is no gap if you just get on and talk about music.


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


In real life ?? of course I belong to music groups with members from 85 years down to a juvenile 40 something, I have found that a younger age group tend to look down upon us as past it, but I suppose that is part of growing up sighhhhhhhhhhhh.


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## Taggart

Andante said:


> Of course there is as on 98.44566% of forums, now don't upset the grumpy old farts


You mean don't wake them up?


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## moody

Taggart said:


> You mean don't wake them up?


Yes or it might be a case of "The Kraken Wakes".


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## Ukko

ArtMusic said:


> Oh yed, I should take node of that to make intelligend and polide posts.


I hope the head cold gets better. Intelligent TC posts are ipso facto polite. This post is proof that polite posts may not exhibit any intelligence. [The formal logic here involves the quality of the _converse_.]


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## Ukko

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


I seldom turn down an opportunity to shoot the bull. My hearing has developed a lowpass filter at ~4KHz, affecting the resolution of consonants. This means that conversation in a noisy environment (like a bowling alley) requires 'close-ups'. I have noticed a moderate but direct relationship between age and spittle.

[It ain't all bad. Conversations with women are necessarily intimate.]


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## Ingélou

Hilltroll72 said:


> I seldom turn down an opportunity to shoot the bull. My hearing has developed a lowpass filter at ~4KHz, affecting the resolution of consonants. This means that conversation in a noisy environment (like a bowling alley) requires 'close-ups'. I have noticed a moderate but direct relationship between age and spittle.
> 
> [It ain't all bad. Conversations with women are necessarily intimate.]


'Ain't all bad' - for whom???


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## Ukko

Ingenue said:


> 'Ain't all bad' - for whom???


It varies; if she keeps edging away... I re-evaluate the necessity for the conversation. If it must continue, I learned from a master how to steer the target into a wall or a post.


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## Tristan

As one of the younger members, I haven't felt condescended to by any of the older members. I haven't really been involved in many arguments on this site, so that could also be a factor. A generation gap could explain some misunderstandings, but I don't think it's necessarily a source of condescension or berating.


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## Ukko

Tristan said:


> As one of the younger members, I haven't felt condescended to by any of the older members. I haven't really been involved in many arguments on this site, so that could also be a factor. A generation gap could explain some misunderstandings, but I don't think it's necessarily a source of condescension or berating.


I have so far managed to hold myself back.


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## DavidA

Of course there is a generation gap. Different generations see things differently. My own kids have very different opinions and outlooks to the one I have. That doesn't necessarily mean one is right and what is wrong. As far as music is concerned there are now different ways of doing music than there were when I began collecting classical discs. Four example, Klemperer was held up as the ultimate in Beethoven conducting by the generation before me. Now completely different styles have emerged. Again it is not a matter of right and wrong but of style. 
The only way to bridge a generation gap is to actually talk to each other and appreciate one differences. Just think, we might even learn from each other!


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## Cheyenne

I've never noticed it at all.


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## mstar

Yes, inevitably, there is a "generation gap" between the members at TC. Undeniably, if opportunity is taken, a 50-year-old member of TC has much more knowledge of music and its many aspects than, no matter how enthusiastic about music, a 15-year-old does. That is just a matter of education in music over time. 

Even so! Assuming that not everybody on TC has a degree in music, or is getting one, and at least some members may have "discovered" classical music at a later age in life, older doesn't ALWAYS mean "more (musically) educated." It is simply somewhat more likely to be connected with more knowledge about classical music (because there is more time, therefore, there may have been more potential for more knowledge). 

Also! Say an older member has always particularly liked a certain era. A younger member is very enthusiastic about another era, which may be very different from the former. In such cases, I believe that both opinions are valuable. Music has never just been EXCLUSIVELY about technicality, anyway, has it? 

In addition, I think that the younger members on our lovely forum can most certainly benefit and learn from the older members at TC. And.... Whose right is it to deny them the wonderful pleasures of contributing to a forum where they can share their love for such great music?!  

Still.... If we find a less-musically-educated member giving strong opinions about, say, Wagner, when they have not listened to more than, say, two of his works in their life, and have not read much about him, than I do suppose that we have a right to be a little phased.... 

But judging someone based solely on their age is a loss for the person, the forum, and the rest of us, too, since we'd most likely be losing some good input to our threads.  

(Btw.... I've posted quite considerably so far on this forum.... Anyone want to shoot a guess as to what my age is?  )


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ArtMusic said:


> Or maybe I should ask the question in a different guise - would you in real life want to discuss classical music with someone much younger than you and vice versa?


To tell you the truth, in real life I've had more informed conversations about music with people my age (around 16) than people older than me. Maybe it's because at this age many people I know understand all the technicalities of classical music composition and performance without having so much experience as older people to have biased opinions.


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## Guest

Hilltroll72 said:


> I have so far managed to hold myself back.


You take yourself in hand...............


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## Rapide

Yed fir shure. 

Why does TC keep asking posters to have at least twenty-five damn characters? So annoying ....


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## mmsbls

Rapide said:


> Why does TC keep asking posters to have at least twenty-five damn characters? So annoying ....


The answer is that most members probably consider the 25 character limit vastly less annoying than the spam the limit helps prevent.


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## Taggart

mmsbls said:


> The answer is that most members probably consider the 25 character limit vastly less annoying than the spam the limit helps prevent.


Also there are a number of workarounds to make posts look neat and under 25 chars e.g. a single picture with no words.


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## moody

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> To tell you the truth, in real life I've had more informed conversations about music with people my age (around 16) than people older than me. Maybe it's because at this age many people I know understand all the technicalities of classical music composition and performance without having so much experience as older people to have biased opinions.


I'm glad that at 16 you have so much expertise and know the technicalities of music composition and performance.
I have noticed no lack of biase coming from your direction incidentally,depending of course on which composer is IN with you this month.
So what is to become of members who are not music students but have just spent years attending opera and concerts and listening to music generally to build up their biases ? Do we have to be composers and/or performers ,or is this just me putting down one of the young crowd ?


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## Guest

mmsbls said:


> The answer is that most members probably consider the 25 character limit vastly less annoying than the spam the limit helps prevent.


How does it prevent it? seriously


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## Guest

Taggart said:


> Also there are a number of workarounds to make posts look neat and under 25 chars e.g. a single picture with no words.


 yep.......................................


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## Taggart

Or.......................................................................


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## Taggart

Andante said:


> How does it prevent it? seriously


Much spam is simply a link to another site - I've come across one or two - and as such falls foul of the 25 character limit which doesn't count HTML stuff like links, images, quotes etc. By setting a 25 character limit it stops automated postings and much spam is done by bots. Plus - it works! This site is generally spam free and what spam gets through gets fried fairly quickly.

Leave the mods alone - they do a good job under difficult circumstances for free and help maintain an excellent site. Well done. :tiphat:


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## Guest

Clever.......................................


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## deggial

moody said:


> So what is to become of members who are not music students but have just spent years attending opera and concerts and listening to music generally to build up their biases ? Do we have to be composers and/or performers ,or is this just me putting down one of the young crowd ?


we're lucky to have him here us so young. By his logic, in a few years he'll have developed biases and his conversation will become meaningless


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## Ukko

deggial said:


> we're lucky to have him here us so young. By his logic, in a few years he'll have developed biases and his conversation will become meaningless


Please note that _COAG_ specified "in real life". Most of us _really informed_ older people are unavailable for real life conversations with him. For instance, without my physical presence to drive him he probably does _not_ split a half cord of firewood every day.


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## ArtMusic

Taggart said:


> Also there are a number of workarounds to make posts look neat and under 25 chars e.g. a single picture with no words.


Yed, god idea!

This is a lively thread indeed. Very interesting.


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## science

COAG is pretty cool. He's much better than I was at 16, so I give him a pass for not being as cool as I am now at the age of... well, let's use the age I look, 32.


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## Guest

This is so much fun..............


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> I'm glad that at 16 you have so much expertise and know the technicalities of music composition and performance.
> I have noticed no lack of biase coming from your direction incidentally,depending of course on which composer is IN with you this month.


:lol: Right you are, moody! I often am biased after all but I never hammer people with my opinions rather than fact (most of the time). 



> So what is to become of members who are not music students but have just spent years attending opera and concerts and listening to music generally to build up their biases ? Do we have to be composers and/or performers ,or is this just me putting down one of the young crowd ?


I think they have a different kind of knowledge of the repertoire. They may know more works and have a great collection of recordings, but these are the consumers talking about music at the surface level, often regarding the interpretation of music and whether they like it or not. I don't know heaps and heaps of composers, I've only been attending opera and concert performances for the last three or four years, I don't have a huge classical music library but I'm glad I'm also being exposed to this type of classical music knowledge by participating on this forum. And at this age too! In most cases when people are older, the music that they can remember the most and love the most throughout their life is the music from when they were around this age give or take a few years. In the world today we have access to so much more music than in the world 50 years ago due to things like YouTube, Spotify, ITunes, Amazon, many more radio stations for classical music than ever before so it's a case of younger generations to find all this for themselves and they're set for life.


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## PetrB

Hilltroll72 said:


> Please note that _COAG_ specified "in real life". Most of us _really informed_ older people are unavailable for real life conversations with him. For instance, without my physical presence to drive him he probably does _not_ split a half cord of firewood every day.


And he is in Australia-- other than getting about town by bus and tram, its really far to the next cultural navel of the universe


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## KenOC

science said:


> ... well, let's use the age I look, 32.


You ain't fooling me, gramps.


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## moody

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> :lol: Right you are, moody! I often am biased after all but I never hammer people with my opinions rather than fact (most of the time).
> 
> I think they have a different kind of knowledge of the repertoire. They may know more works and have a great collection of recordings, but these are the consumers talking about music at the surface level, often regarding the interpretation of music and whether they like it or not. I don't know heaps and heaps of composers, I've only been attending opera and concert performances for the last three or four years, I don't have a huge classical music library but I'm glad I'm also being exposed to this type of classical music knowledge by participating on this forum. And at this age too! In most cases when people are older, the music that they can remember the most and love the most throughout their life is the music from when they were around this age give or take a few years. In the world today we have access to so much more music than in the world 50 years ago due to things like YouTube, Spotify, ITunes, Amazon, many more radio stations for classical music than ever before so it's a case of younger generations to find all this for themselves and they're set for life.


Facts---what is a fact about ,for instance, "Who's Your Favourite Tenor", etc.etc. These are the types of questions you find here--have you got facts about that one ??
Do you really imagine that the majority of members here are qualified to talk academically about music ? If that was what this is all about there wouldn't be a very large membership would there?
I'm very happy for Burning Desire and you and others to talk technicalities but most of us cannot,should we leave ?
Mind you I remember your utterances that Ligetti was the greatest then,no he isn't now Sibelius is the greatest. At the time I remember thinking that it was wonderful to see such fact-based opinions.


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## Ramako

I am surprised so many think that there is a generation gap here.

Obviously there are different generations, but I don't think there is a gap between them. I have friends from very different ages here, something which cannot be said for people I know in real life.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

My theory, for people misinterpreting it due to my bad choice of words, is this: younger people are subject to the opinions and knowledge of older people. This can be good or bad, but it is up to the younger individual to find an opinion for themselves so that they are not given biased information on a slightly different area of classical music expertise.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> Facts---what is a fact about ,for instance, "Who's Your Favourite Tenor", etc.etc. These are the types of questions you find here--have you got facts about that one ??
> Do you really imagine that the majority of members here are qualified to talk academically about music ? If that was what this is all about there wouldn't be a very large membership would there?
> I'm very happy for Burning Desire and you and others to talk technicalities but most of us cannot,should we leave ?
> Mind you I remember your utterances that Ligetti was the greatest then,no he isn't now Sibelius is the greatest. At the time I remember thinking that it was wonderful to see such fact-based opinions.


Well, I was talking about facts about music, not opinions in the post I wrote...


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## Guest

Ramako said:


> I am surprised so many think that there is a generation gap here.


I am too - perhaps disappointed, rather than surprised.

Possibly it's because there is a presumption about what is meant by the term. As some posters have reasonably claimed, that a 'gap' exists is self evident, if we take what Artmusic posted in the OP.



ArtMusic said:


> Is There A "Generation Gap" Between Some TalkClassical Members?
> 
> It appears to me some elder members tend to bark on younger members here far too easily, as if it's a school master's working hour and students are at school.


There are undoubtedly 'gaps' between some members - a friction in exchanges which, on Artmusic's side at least is characterised by the older members asserting themselves as a teacher might over a pupil.

However, whether the gap arises as a result merely of age difference, I doubt. There are 'gaps' of all kinds between members that can result in friction in exchanges. What's most important - in consideration of the OP - is whether the existence of this gap is significant. I don't think it is.

Nevertheless, if Artmusic thinks I've barked at him in some of our exchanges, I'm sorry. I don't intend to bark, and I don't belive that if I do, it's because of my age (or his). The test will be whether, if we come back here in 20 years time, I'll still be barking and Artmusic will still be polling - or whether we've changed in some way (for the better, I hasten to add).


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## Ukko

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Well, I was talking about facts about music, not opinions in the post I wrote...


There are several aspects involved in _music_, especially external ones. Some of those must be useful in the making of music, and some of that 'some' are tagged as 'academic/musicological'. Another external aspect may be loosely termed 'historical'. That covers who performed what, when and where, and what record there may be of it. (This historical aspect is prime geezer territory.)

Every one of these variously interested people knows that music also has _internal_ aspects. Music plays in _and with_ all of our minds. That is the Big Why of music - it exists because it plays with our minds. We may be playing/working at music, but: *Music is playing with our minds, man!*



[Comic strip of large net falling, straightjacketed Hilltroll being led away]


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## moody

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> My theory, for people misinterpreting it due to my bad choice of words, is this: younger people are subject to the opinions and knowledge of older people. This can be good or bad, but it is up to the younger individual to find an opinion for themselves so that they are not given biased information on a slightly different area of classical music expertise.


Everything you've said in this is absolutely correct. Except that every opinion is biaised ,that's the nature of an opinion,you should listen to these opinions and then make your mind up.
This incidentally has nothing to do with age ,but you deem to have a problem with age --remember the dinosaur business ?
W£hat examples have you got of people hammering you ? As far as your following post is concerned you most certainly brought up the matter of opinions perhaps Taggart didn't notice that in your original post.


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## Blancrocher

From what I can tell, a generation gap is maintained on this site for the purposes of good-natured humor and gentle ribbing. It's probably worthwhile as long as that doesn't change!


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## Cheyenne

Yes, just make sure it does not become an excuse for quarrels and disagreements. Anyone can contribute something worthwhile, as long as he knows his own limits, and is somewhat open-minded.


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## PetrB

Hilltroll72 said:


> There are several aspects involved in _music_, especially external ones. Some of those must be useful in the making of music, and some of that 'some' are tagged as 'academic/musicological'. Another external aspect may be loosely termed 'historical'. That covers who performed what, when and where, and what record there may be of it. (This historical aspect is prime geezer territory.)
> 
> Every one of these variously interested people knows that music also has _internal_ aspects. Music plays in _and with_ all of our minds. That is the Big Why of music - it exists because it plays with our minds. We may be playing/working at music, but: *Music is playing with our minds, man!*
> 
> 
> 
> [Comic strip of large net falling, straightjacketed Hilltroll being led away]


Music is the only art I can think of which totally plays with / messes _with our sense of time_....

In my book, nothing else comes anywhere near close (well, maybe seriously long term space travel) and nothing else has the capacity to evoke not only emotion, but a sense of something tangible of enormous scope and scale, as if there were a monumental sculpture or overwhelming and vast landscape you were looking at, or standing within.

Call me if they're about to cart you away on that count -- I can make a pretty good rational argument for the effect, and claim it is "mostly harmless"


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> Everything you've said in this is absolutely correct. Except that every opinion is biaised ,that's the nature of an opinion,you should listen to these opinions and then make your mind up.
> This incidentally has nothing to do with age ,but you deem to have a problem with age --remember the dinosaur business ?
> W£hat examples have you got of people hammering you ? As far as your following post is concerned you most certainly brought up the matter of opinions perhaps Taggart didn't notice that in your original post.


I don't have a problem with age. I don't have a problem with anything. I'm just making a generalisation based on my experiences outside of TC.

PS I don't have a precise definition of the word "dinosaur" because I never came up with it to bash classical music listeners.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> Everything you've said in this is absolutely correct. Except that every opinion is biaised ,that's the nature of an opinion,you should listen to these opinions and then make your mind up.
> This incidentally has nothing to do with age ,but you deem to have a problem with age --remember the dinosaur business ?
> W£hat examples have you got of people hammering you ? As far as your following post is concerned you most certainly brought up the matter of opinions perhaps Taggart didn't notice that in your original post.


One more thing, every opinion is biased, but it can be a personal bias or a bias that is influenced on them by what other people tell them.

Some are born biased 
Some achieve bias
Some have bias thrust upon them.


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## ArtMusic

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> One more thing, every opinion is biased, but it can be a personal bias or a bias that is influenced on them by what other people tell them.
> 
> Some are born biased
> Some achieve bias
> Some have bias thrust upon them.


Everyone is bias, it's just some are more bias than others.


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## arpeggio

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan (1927-2003).

(Note: Famous former Amercan Senator.)


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## Taggart

ArtMusic said:


> Everyone is bias, it's just some are more bias than others.


What is this, a bowls match?


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## arpeggio

*Old vs New*

My wife just got home from work and we were discussing this thread. (She was unimpressed with my big post. She thought it was rather contrived.)

She made the observation that in every generation there will always be those who long for the good old days.

She reminded me of the old political joke, "What is the differece between a liberal and a conservative?"

"A liberal wants to set around the campfire holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'."

"A conservative wants to return to those good old days that never existed."


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## PetrB

arpeggio said:


> My wife just got home from work and we were discussing this thread. (She was unimpressed with my big post. She thought it was rather contrived.)
> 
> She made the observation that in every generation there will always be those who long for the good old days.
> 
> She reminded me of the old political joke, "What is the differece between a liberal and a conservative?"
> 
> "A liberal wants to set around the campfire holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'."
> 
> "A conservative wants to return to those good old days that never existed."


Whatever happened to that classic, "A conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged." ???


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## mstar

I'M ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS OLD AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS A GENERATION GAP!!! 

So is there still one now?...


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## Ukko

mstar said:


> I'M ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS OLD AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS A GENERATION GAP!!!
> 
> So is there still one now?...


Using the standard number, the generation one 'gap' from you is about 40. You may be pleased to learn that the gap has closed between that generation and the 65 generation. There is, however, no bridging the gap between the 65s and the 15s. We think you are nuts.


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> Using the standard number, the generation one 'gap' from you is about 40. You may be pleased to learn that the gap has closed between that generation and the 65 generation. There is, however, no bridging the gap between the 65s and the 15s. We think you are nuts.


And if I told you I am actually 34 years old, would you believe me? Because I what if I am 53? No, no.... I am 173! Tchaikovsky reincarnated! 

_I have returned.... As a 3453173 year old girl.... AsjhvjkshvjksvkjSDfkhhdkerh...._

Creepy....


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## Ukko

mstar said:


> And if I told you I am actually 34 years old, would you believe me? Because I what if I am 53? No, no.... I am 173! Tchaikovsky reincarnated!
> 
> _I have returned.... As a 3453173 year old girl.... AsjhvjkshvjksvkjSDfkhhdkerh...._
> 
> Creepy....


 In your case it doesn't matter; you are still nuts. I was speaking of a general rule, not a specific case


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> In your case it doesn't matter; you are still nuts. I was speaking of a general rule, not a specific case


I am very nuts.  I am around 15 years old, really. Though really, TC still values my opinion, I hope....

Except Hilltroll72 may be an exception if he wishes. After all, Mr. Hill, we cannot deny that you are at least _slightly_ nuts as well.... 

Hehe, mastabas....


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## moody

mstar said:


> And if I told you I am actually 34 years old, would you believe me? Because I what if I am 53? No, no.... I am 173! Tchaikovsky reincarnated!
> 
> _I have returned.... As a 3453173 year old girl.... AsjhvjkshvjksvkjSDfkhhdkerh...._
> 
> Creepy....


It's easy to tell you're a juvenile.
As for TC valuing your contributions ,there is no escape.


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## mstar

moody said:


> It's easy to tell you're a juvenile.


Thanks, same to you.


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## moody

mstar said:


> Thanks, same to you.


Go to bed you must be tired.


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## mstar

moody said:


> Go to bed you must be tired.


Aw, Moody doesn't like me anymore? Very well then....


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## LordBlackudder

music is music despite the age really


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## Guest

mstar said:


> I am very nuts.  I am around 15 years old, really. Though really, TC still values my opinion, I hope....
> 
> Except Hilltroll72 may be an exception if he wishes. After all, Mr. Hill, we cannot deny that you are at least _slightly_ nuts as well....
> 
> Hehe, mastabas....


I don't believe you, Mstar! Unlike some of the recent posters, your use of vocabulary suggests a more refined (a more evolved, therefore older...) mindset. I value your contributions enormously, you always make me laugh, not like some of the miserable grey beards around here !!!! 
Add 'I'm joking but ban me anyway' icon.


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## mstar

TalkingHead said:


> I don't believe you, Mstar! Unlike some of the recent posters, your use of vocabulary suggests a more refined (a more evolved, therefore older...) mindset. I value your contributions enormously, you always make me laugh, not like some of the miserable grey beards around here !!!!
> Add 'I'm joking but ban me anyway' icon.


I'm glad, you've always been something of a formidable character to me.  But perhaps that's just me. I'm still uncomfortable around those monstrous (if you will) letters at the top of every page: *[HR]TALKCLASSICAL[/HR]*

So don't be too hard on yourself.

As for my age, you're not the first to suggest my age being greater than what it is claimed to be.... It is around 15 years old. Here is a picture from 3 years ago or so, and that should be proof enough. Don't talk about posing - this was for Facebook, nothing more or less. Now let me fish it out.... 








There I am.


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