# SS 13.09.14 - Bruckner #4 "Romantic"



## realdealblues

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Anton Bruckner (1824 - 1896)*

Symphony No. 4 in E-flat major, WAB 104 "Romantic"

1. Bewegt, nicht zu schnell
2. Andante, quasi allegretto
3. Scherzo. Bewegt
4. Finale: Bewegt, doch nicht zu schnell

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues

This weekend I'll go for one of my favorites:

View attachment 50951


Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra


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## Cosmos

Ah cool!

I've got Barenboim and the CSO


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## GioCar

For Bruckner I usually go for Celibidache/Munich PO, but this time i'll listen again to:










Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra

which I liked very much when I heard it some time ago.


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## joen_cph

A ravishing symphony.

Will probably go with *Barenboim/BPO* (Teldec/Warner), but I might hear one or two further recordings as well ...


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## Marschallin Blair

Cosmos said:


> Ah cool!
> 
> I've got Barenboim and the CSO


Barenboim really pulls the rabbit out the hat with that DG/CSO Bruckner's Fourth. The brass chorale in the first movement is absolutely monumental. The last movement has climaxes of Straussian proportions. The very ending of the symphony is pure noble exaltation.


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## Blancrocher

I'll listen to Chailly & the Concertgebouw Orchestra.


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## ptr

Berliner Philharmoniker u Günter Wand (RCA)










Outstanding musicianship!

/ptr


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## Rhythm

The listen was enjoyable after the switch from Solti to Celibidache.








*
Symphony No. 4 in E-flat major*
^ Sergiu Celibidache conducted LIVE Münchner Philharmoniker

Bewegt; nicht zu schnell (E-flat major)
Andante; quasi allegretto (C minor) 22:20
Scherzo; Bewegt; Trio: Nicht zu schnell (B-flat major) 40:20
Finale; Bewegt; doch nicht zu schnell (E-flat major) 51:35​


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## JACE

I'll go with Jochum's B4 with the Staatskapelle Dresden:










Others in my collection:
- Jochum, BPO (DG)
- Klemperer, Philharmonia O (EMI)
- Skrowaczewski, The Hallé O (IMP Classics)


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## Mahlerian

I'll listen to this one twice.

First:
Young/Hamburg Philharmonic, for the 1874 version.









Then later:
Tennstedt/Berlin Philharmonic, for the 1878/80 version.


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## csacks

I will go with Abbado and the Wiener Philharmoniker O. It has been one of my favorites symphonies ever


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## Celloissimo

Claudio Abbado conducting Bruckner's 4th with the Wiener Philharmoniker.


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## Marschallin Blair

ptr said:


> Berliner Philharmoniker u Günter Wand (RCA)
> 
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> 
> Outstanding musicianship!
> /ptr


_Epic._

A full-blown, wide-open-throttle, 572 nitromethane Hemi-- of a performance. . . at least with some of the build-ups and climaxes.

Great-sounding recording as well.


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## hpowders

Marschallin Blair said:


> _Epic._
> 
> A full-blown, wide-open-throttle, 572 nitromethane Hemi-- of a performance. . . at least with some of the build-ups and climaxes.
> 
> Great-sounding recording as well.


Post deleted......see below...


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## hpowders

ptr said:


> Berliner Philharmoniker u Günter Wand (RCA)
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outstanding musicianship!
> 
> /ptr


Looks like he could be the next Pope.


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## ptr

Marschallin Blair said:


> _Epic._
> A full-blown, wide-open-throttle, 572 nitromethane Hemi-- of a performance. . . at least with some of the build-ups and climaxes.
> Great-sounding recording as well.


Perfectly Judged Bruckner as You say! I have only heard one B4 that I have heard that comes close, it was a concert I heard with Stan Skrowaczewski in Gothenburg, and that tells me that a conductor needs to be beyond his 80th year to really understand that Elusive Anton! Younglings should not bother... 

/ptr


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## ptr

hpowders said:


> Looks like he could be the next Pope.


Like all the best popes he's already dead! (That would go for all the best conductors as well!) 

/ptr


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## Jeff W

This is the only Bruckner I have in my collection... Peter Oundjian leading the Toronto Symphony Orchestra for me...


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## Marschallin Blair

hpowders said:


> Looks like he could be the next Pope.


The Pope can be trainbearer to Wand's artistry.


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## brotagonist

I'm in! I'll get out the Klemperer/Philharmonia:


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## Itullian

Celi baby............


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## Vaneyes

*Bruckner*: Symphony 4, w. BPO/Jochum (rec.1965).


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## OperaGeek

This is a terrific performance in excellent sound:


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## AClockworkOrange

I'll be going with *Klaus Tennstedt & the London Philharmonic Orchestr*a as I am on overtime and this excellent live recording is on my iPod.

Later at home, I may also listen to *Celibidache & the Münchner Philharmoniker.*


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## Haydn man

I will try No. 4 from this cycle via Spotify


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## Itullian

Haydn man said:


> View attachment 51003
> 
> I will try No. 4 from this cycle via Spotify


Excellent cycle.


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## contra7

Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker


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## CyrilWashbrook

Like Haydn man, I'm going to listen to Wand's recording with the Kölner RSO.


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## brotagonist

Oh, good grief! I saw the *B* and thought Brahms. It is Bruckner :lol:

I'll spin my disc: Haitink/Concertgebouw:


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## TurnaboutVox

I'm in too...

Today:
*Bruckner
Symphony No. 4 in E flat major 'Romantic'* (1878/80 version, ed. Haas)
Georg Tintner, Royal Scottish NO [rec. 1996]
[Naxos, 2001]










Tomorrow I'll see what I can find on Spotify


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## Mika

Wand Kölner box set in use here also.


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## D Smith

After lurking for a while, I finally joined this forum, one of the reasons being the Saturday Symphonies. I like having a specific work to listen to and making the time to do it. While Bruckner is not always my cup of tea, I did enjoy listening to Abbado and the Wiener Philharmoniker perform it, emotional and flowing, especially the second movement.


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## TurnaboutVox

D Smith said:


> After lurking for a while, I finally joined this forum, one of the reasons being the Saturday Symphonies. I like having a specific work to listen to and making the time to do it. While Bruckner is not always my cup of tea, I did enjoy listening to Abbado and the Wiener Philharmoniker perform it, emotional and flowing, especially the second movement.


Welcome to the forum, D Smith, glad you decided to join. Enjoy TC.


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## Vaneyes

D Smith said:


> After lurking for a while, I finally joined this forum, one of the reasons being the Saturday Symphonies. I like having a specific work to listen to and making the time to do it. While Bruckner is not always my cup of tea, I did enjoy listening to Abbado and the Wiener Philharmoniker perform it, emotional and flowing, especially the second movement.


Feel free to add your listens at any time to the archive of Saturday Symphony dates. These threads are not dead, and you'll find them throughout *Orchestral Music*.:tiphat:


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## psu

Bohm with the VPO


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## D Smith

Vaneyes said:


> Feel free to add your listens at any time to the archive of Saturday Symphony dates. These threads are not dead, and you'll find them throughout *Orchestral Music*.:tiphat:


Thanks, I'll certainly do that, a good excuse to revisit some pieces I haven't listened to in a while.


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## GreenMamba

Klemperer and the WDR Sinfonieorcheter Koln (1954). Had to lean on Spotify for this as I don't own a copy of Br4.


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## Lord Lance

View attachment 51167


The definitive recording of Bruckner's Fourth Symphony, conducted by Maestro Karajan.


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## TurnaboutVox

Bruckner - Symphony No. 4 (1881 version)
Günter Wand, Münchner Philharmoniker [Profil, 2006]

I listened to this impressive version for comparison with my Tintner / RSNO CD this afternoon


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## SONNET CLV

The Fourth remains my second favorite Bruckner symphony, and it matters not which of the several recordings I have that I listen to (and I believe I have most of those mentioned here already). It is always enjoyable.

If any of you can recommend a really _terrible _interpretation of the Fourth, I'd be interested in listening to that.


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## Mahlerian

SONNET CLV said:


> The Fourth remains my second favorite Bruckner symphony, and it matters not which of the several recordings I have that I listen to (and I believe I have most of those mentioned here already). It is always enjoyable.
> 
> If any of you can recommend a really _terrible _interpretation of the Fourth, I'd be interested in listening to that.


Have you heard the performance from Vanska and the LPO where a guy walked out partway through the finale?






I've heard the whole performance...and it's got a lot of problems.

Edit: Pulled out my digital files of this performance...and it's a MESS. Brass flubs and out of tune winds everywhere, poor ensemble, etc. The interpretation is extremely idiosyncratic: the second theme group of the finale starts out more slowly than the first, and _he proceeds to continue slowing it down!_ This is the moment when the man shouting in the Youtube video walks out. The tempos throughout are very poorly judged, and the phrasing is odd; I remember at the climax of the Adagio he inserts a caesura that's not in any version of the score.


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## SONNET CLV

Mahlerian said:


> Have you heard the performance from Vanska and the LPO where a guy walked out partway through the finale?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard the whole performance...and it's got a lot of problems.


Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a spin.


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## Mahlerian

SONNET CLV said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a spin.


It hasn't been released, for obvious reasons, but the recording I picked up is probably still floating around somewhere on the internet.


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## ptr

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> The definitive recording of Bruckner's fourth symphony conducted by Maestro Karajan.


Sure, there's not that many Karajan Bruckner Fourths to compete with!

/ptr


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## Marschallin Blair

ptr said:


> Sure, there's not that many Karajan Bruckner Fourths to compete with!
> 
> /ptr


Well, like Lancelot, that is to say: 'without peer'-- Karajan can only struggle against himself: So it comes down to his EMI endeavor versus his DG incarnation (my fave).


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## Lord Lance

ptr said:


> Sure, there's not that many Karajan Bruckner Fourths to compete with!
> 
> /ptr


Thank you. Correction made.


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## ptr

Marschallin Blair said:


> Well, like Lancelot, that is to say: 'without peer'-- Karajan can only struggle against himself: So it comes down to his EMI endeavor versus his DG incarnation (my fave).


Karajan always struggles with himself! Pity he choose to indulge in his own ego rather then music!

/ptr


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## DiesIraeCX

ptr said:


> Karajan always struggles with himself! Pity he choose to indulge in his own ego rather then music!
> 
> /ptr


The usual clichéd "soundbyte" about Karajan. Wanna know what I hear when I listen to Karajan's Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, etc.? *The music*.


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## Marschallin Blair

ptr said:


> Karajan always struggles with himself! Pity he choose to indulge in his own ego rather then music!
> 
> /ptr


He's very Michaelangelo that way._ ;D_


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## ptr

DiesIraeVIX said:


> A common clichéd "soundbyte" about Karajan. Wanna know what I hear when I listen to Karajan's Beethoven, Brahms, or Bruckner, etc.? *The music*.


A typical Ostrich view, head stuck solidly in the ground with no regard for the music! (I will but out here as not to start a new WW!)

/ptr


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## DiesIraeCX

ptr said:


> A typical Ostrich view, head stuck solidly in the ground with no regard for the music! (I will but out here as not to start a new WW!)
> 
> /ptr


I merely am fighting against a double-standard. If someone says something akin to your Karajan comment, a baseless negative criticism about Penderecki, Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Ligeti, etc. Immediately people ask for academic rigor: Reasons why, citations, quotations, proof. *And I agree with that!* Negative criticisms for the sake of negative criticism without a base *should *be called out. Same goes for when someone says Mozart's music is merely "pretty", "surface-deep"... But there are easy targets like Karajan, the "low hanging fruit", someone can say what you say and nobody bats an eye. I did. But I guess equating me to an ostrich with his head in the ground is proof? I don't know.


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## DiesIraeCX

For the OP, I only own the Gunter Wand recording with the Berliner Philharmoniker (it's been brought up a few times on this thread), but I think I need a change. I'll be giving Mahlerian's recording choice a chance, thankfully it's on Spotify. 

Simone Young/Hamburg Philharmonic, for the 1874 version.


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## Guest

I have most of the Bruckner 4s mentioned in the posts above (Karajan, Tintner, Wand, etc., etc.,) as well as their original/revised//Haas/Novaks... and they all have their respective merits/demerits. I'll add one more that has not had any mention as far as I can see : *Dennis Russell Davies* with the *Linz Bruckner Orchestra*. I really have nothing insightful to say about the performance (which is as competent as anyone would wish) except to say that I like the idea of an orchestra from a city with close links to Bruckner, plus I like the rather smooth pate of the conductor who on the CD jacket I have looks like a younger Captain Picard from Star Trek.


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## DiesIraeCX

TalkingHead said:


> ... *I like the idea of an orchestra from a city with close links to Bruckner*, plus I like the rather smooth pate of the conductor who on the CD jacket I have looks like a younger Captain Picard from Star Trek.


I too love things like this, it adds an extra level of enjoyment when listening. It _may _be a placebo effect, but I'm OK with that! For instance, John Eliot Gardiner's recording of _Symphonie Fantastique _ was performed in the same Paris concert hall where it was premiered in 1830. It makes it more of an immersive experience.


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## Woodduck

DiesIraeVIX said:


> I too love things like this, it adds an extra level of enjoyment when listening. It _may _be a placebo effect, but I'm OK with that! For instance, John Eliot Gardiner's recording of _Symphonie Fantastique _ was performed in the same Paris concert hall where it was premiered in 1830. It makes it more of an immersive experience.


Parenthetically (because it has nothing to do with Bruckner), that Gardiner _Fantastique_ is fascinating and a must-have recording. The acoustics of the hall are very dry, and the period-style instruments Gardiner uses are thus revealed in all their wonderful weirdness - serpent, ophecleide, etc. These were the sounds Berlioz shoved at the unsuspecting public in 1830! No wonder they thought he was mad. But, as someone in his _Beatrice et Benedict_ says, madness is preferable to idiocy.

Sorry to interrupt. Back to Bruckner.


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## Mahlerian

DiesIraeVIX said:


> For the OP, I only own the Gunter Wand recording with the Berliner Philharmoniker (it's been brought up a few times on this thread), but I think I need a change. I'll be giving Mahlerian's recording choice a chance, thankfully it's on Spotify.
> 
> Simone Young/Hamburg Philharmonic, for the 1874 version.


If you haven't heard it before, the differences can be quite shocking. It's actually quite a good version, though it takes some time to stop hearing it as "not the version you're used to".


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