# Cadenzas When can you ad lib?



## obwan

When is a written cadenza acceptable to be altered? If there is a piece of music, that IS a cadenza, that is comopletely solo, but is not marked Cadenza per se, can you still ad lib if you prefer?


or unless its marked as cadenza I assume that its obligatorio?


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## Lunasong

You can improvise if the composer specifies it. Many cadenzas are marked "as played by (famous soloist)." Feel free to improvise your own here.


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## KenOC

You can improvise any time the composer's not in the audience, or if he is small and weak. Be aware that local laws may apply.


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## Lunasong

I have always felt it is the musician's job to interpret the composer's intentions. Thus my answer.
You don't get to make it up as you go along if the composer has written directions.


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> You can improvise any time the composer's not in the audience, or if he is small and weak. Be aware that local laws may apply.


That "small and weak" won't cut it, long as he is strong enough to pull a trigger. Better if he's blasé about it.


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## clavichorder

I doubt Medtner would want a performer to improvise during one of his cadenzas, especially the one in the 2nd concerto. He was usually very precise with his scores. But he felt at liberty to write his own cadenza to Beethoven's 4th.


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## Krisena

Lunasong said:


> I have always felt it is the musician's job to interpret the composer's intentions. Thus my answer.
> You don't get to make it up as you go along if the composer has written directions.


What if the composer's directions goes against his intentions for the piece?


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## Ukko

Krisena said:


> What if the composer's directions goes against his intentions for the piece?


Um, say what?


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## joen_cph

oops, unintended double post.


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## joen_cph

Some famous & refreshing examples of soloists taking liberties in recordings are

- Jenkins/Little Orchestra of London in Haydn´s "Militairy"symphony, where Jenkins improvises on an harpsichord not in the score (http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/military.html);

- Gulda/Swarowsky in Mozart piano concerti, where Gulda supplies extra notes while the orchestra plays (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/html/NF7497567?thread=6356284);

- Peter Breiner in Mozart´s 20th Concerto playing the concerto quite brilliantly, changing for jazz in the cadenzas (



)

This is much rarer nowadays than what it used to be, and almost only related to pre-1800 works, it seems, except from the more modern scores allowing improvisation (including such an early example as Nielsen´s timpani part in Symphony 5, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._5_(Nielsen)). But it would probably make concert life more interesting .


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