# Opening of Beethoven's Seventh



## Beet Lover (Jan 11, 2018)

Ok the first link is the funeral march from the Eroica. The second link is the first movement of the Seventh. Listen to the first link starting at the 17:45 mark a few times, the falling three chords. Then listen to the second link, specifically the introduction to the first movement. Any thoughts? I hear a set of variations on the three note falling motif, almost like it was taken right from the ending of the funeral march.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Beet Lover said:


> Ok the first link is the funeral march from the Eroica. The second link is the first movement of the Seventh. Listen to the first link starting at the 17:45 mark a few times, the falling three chords. Then listen to the second link, specifically the introduction to the first movement. Any thoughts? I hear a set of variations on the three note falling motif, almost like it was taken right from the ending of the funeral march.


Interesting first post, welcome to Talk Classical, Beet Lover


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I wouldn't make too much out of this. Yes, similar but on purpose? Who knows. Many great composers have a musical thumbprint. Something that just permeates every thing they do conscious or not. For Mahler it was the major-minor chord progression. Shostakovich had his DSCH that he used frequently. Then Brahms and Schumann had the FAE and FAF motifs that were clearly on purpose. But this Beethoven I think is a stretch - although it takes good ears and a good memory to find details like this. Mahler's symphonies are chock full of these references but I've never been convinced he did them on purpose.


----------



## Beet Lover (Jan 11, 2018)

I totally agree and I'd also recommend not to read much into this. Nonetheless, it is fun to speculate on the composing process of one of the greatest composers who ever lived, one who has said that music is a higher revelation than wisdom itself. For example, in the Eroica, compare the opening of the scherzo to a precise section of the first movement.






Then listen to the strings in the 1st movement from 1:20 - 1:26. It is similar to the opening of the 3rd movement, only slower and more deliberate.






Intentional or not, I think it's neat to be honest. It is something I have not read about anywhere and, like the 4 note motif in the 5th symphony, illustrates how precisely a work can be unified, consciously or unconsciously. But how many times have we heard that about the 5th. It also illustrates, to me at least, how putting music under a microscope can help one appreciate it even more.


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Beet Lover said:


> Ok the first link is the funeral march from the Eroica. The second link is the first movement of the Seventh. Listen to the first link starting at the 17:45 mark a few times, the falling three chords. Then listen to the second link, specifically the introduction to the first movement. Any thoughts? I hear a set of variations on the three-note falling motif, almost like it was taken right from the ending of the funeral march.


Yes, they sound like similar three chord patterns... but perhaps so short that one might be reluctant to exaggerate their significance... He would often work with brief motifs or short phrases and develop them as part of his Beethoven DNA signature. But it's worth hearing both sections again as a reminder. Thanks for pointing them out.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Interesting find, but I doubt significant. The various linkages and foreshadowings within the Eroica itself, however, are always fascinating and speak to the absolute greatness of that work.


----------

