# sound and vision



## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

A few years ago I was in Vienna for a week, for work!

One evening I got on the "tram" and went to Belvedere palace.

The purpose was double, to see a most favourite painting and to feel the power of the place,
where Anton Bruckner lived his last years and died.

*The painting was the "Kiss" of Gustav Klimt.*

In the palace room, I stayed long to admire the painting, the colours,
the structure, the material, the subject.

While I was doing this, I turned on my mp3 and my ears accepted thankfully
*the divine sounds of the 9th. *

I said to myself " this is how paradise must look and feel".

Yes, I want to read your views and opinions and experience.

*Which painting to which classical piece? How is your paradise?*


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Peter Bruegel, "Peasant Dance" and Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, third movement (a peasant dance!)

Nice idea, Clara s!!!

I listen to the Beethoven and I can visualize these simple folk, devoid of cell phones and completely innocent of atonal music debates, yet SO HAPPY, dancing for joy amongst their relatives and friends; a much more simple life!!!


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Probably something by Caspar David Friedrich










...whilst listening to the finale of Sibelius' 5th!!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Victorian preRaphaelite with early music - together, they'd *send *me... :angel:

Marie Spartali Stillman, The Enchanted Garden of Messer Ansaldo, 1889:







------- (click to see it bigger.)

and music from a Flemish manuscript, by Les Witches:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^^Ohhh! Why was I born so late!!!!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

hpowders said:


> ^^^^Ohhh! Why was I born so late!!!!


You're making up for lost time, though... 
Have you seen the Thousandth Post thread in the Community Forum?
I'm having a terrible time keeping up with you! :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> You're making up for lost time, though...
> Have you seen the Thousandth Post thread in the Community Forum?
> I'm having a terrible time keeping up with you! :lol:


Yes. I notice I'm at 996. Too bad we don't get paid by the post! 
I find this stuff so interesting, Ingélou. I could do this 24/7. It's what I love. 
Hope the rite of initiation isn't too humiliating in that Thousand Post thread. if they ask for my American Express card number, I'm not joining!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Great thread idea.

View attachment 32669

Winter landscape by Anselm Kiefer

goes well with the 6th movement (Field of the dead) of Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm agin all this sort of synergy _being realized,_ at least, and currently with all the portable toys, it is entirely possible.

What I think it does in the negative: I keeps the listener from imagining other images, specific or otherwise, if that is what they are prone to do when listening to music. Now, instead, Bruckner's 9th is forever attached to the Klimt, and whatever imagined music the Klimt may have conjured up is now blocked by the Bruckner having become attached.

What seemed like a highly imaginative and 'creative' act was instead rather literal, "this fits with this," and in realizing your dream connection, I think it was actually more self-indulgent than of any real benefit... i.e. it has limited the future perception via a freer imagination of both the specific Bruckner piece and the Klimt painting -- you have now extremely limited the scope of how both pieces may work on you in future -- and perhaps have directed your imagination toward becoming that much more literal and less imaginative upon making further realizations in the future concerning other artworks.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I guess there must be some folks looking for paintings of medieval torture to be matched with atonal musical compositions.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Satie's Gymnopedies remind me of dancers on a Greek vase. Of course, I think that's what the pieces are about, anyway.

(I know, this looks like a plate. I didn't have find to hunt down a vase.)


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I guess there must be some folks looking for paintings of medieval torture to be matched with atonal musical compositions.


Sigh, or heavy sci-fi fantasy illustrations, or ... something _not really very imaginative at all_


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> Satie's Gymnopedies remind me of dancers on a Greek vase. Of course, I think that's what the pieces are about, anyway.
> 
> (I know, this looks like a plate. I didn't have find to hunt down a vase.)
> 
> View attachment 32674


If you go the literal route with this one, you'd have a video clip of a group of young men (males only, probably in their early to mid-teens), dancing in the nude.

I think I'll stick with just the music, thanks.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

It will happen.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

This thread is living proof the world and general thought are more and more awash with literalism.

That growing trend toward literalism may have a serious dent on the creative thinking processes for an entire generation or worse, their descendents as well.

(For an entire generation, worthwhile practical and creative problem solving and abstract creative thinking invaluable for making art and other inventions shoots the tubes: _film at eleven._)


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I was just thinking about something related to this this morning while I was listening to Dvorak's 7th. Everytime I think of this work, my mind goes back to a plain white London STS LP with a sepia portrait of Anton on the cover. I was wondering if that's why I have a slightly bored reaction to this symphony. Musically, it's great, but the plain white LP is my mental image.

Just as Saint Saens' 3rd brings up a picture of water lilies in an orange frame and Mozart's Posthorn Serenade a blue twilight formal garden.

It all comes from staring at the LP's too long while I listened 35-40 years ago. 


(Incidentally, I think I'm a bit with PetrB on this one...I can't see that it really does any good to make these attachments. It narrows perspective instead of widening it. But, I'm not about to round up a posse...)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Sort of like Toscanini stating that "some see Napoleon.... I see allegro con brio!" regarding the first movement of the Eroica symphony.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Yes. I notice I'm at 996. Too bad we don't get paid by the post!
> I find this stuff so interesting, Ingélou. I could do this 24/7. It's what I love.
> Hope the rite of initiation isn't too humiliating in that Thousand Post thread. if they ask for my American Express card number, I'm not joining!


You have to get both ears pierced -- while sober and under no anesthetic whatsoever.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

PetrB said:


> This thread is living proof the world and general thought are more and more awash with literalism.
> 
> That growing trend toward literalism may have a serious dent on the creative thinking processes for an entire generation or worse, their descendents as well.
> 
> (For an entire generation, worthwhile practical and creative problem solving and abstract creative thinking invaluable for making art and other inventions shoots the tubes: _film at eleven._)


In today's society, the lack of discussion, as it is proposed in your first line, leads to a full and sad acquiescence.

In this thread, i felt like telling you here about an event, that was quite intriguing
and made me think deeper about music and painting, at the specific moment.

Do not be afraid, I am not going to eternally mix Bruckner with Klimt.

Bruckner is Anton, the genious composer, and Klimt is Gustav, the well known representative of Sezession.

Music literalism has nothing to do with this thread!

Who is so expert and authorised to accuse poor clara s for being a dent
on the creative thinking process?

And as a great philosopher said " let him that would move the world, first move himself"

Regards


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> You have to get both ears pierced -- while sober and under no anesthetic whatsoever.


Is old Kentucky bourbon considered to be an anesthetic?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

clara s said:


> In today's society, the lack of discussion, as it is proposed in your first line, leads to a full and sad acquiescence.
> 
> In this thread, i felt like telling you here about an event, that was quite intriguing
> and made me think deeper about music and painting, at the specific moment.
> ...


Poor Clara is not exactly poor, and I do not mean financially, if she can visit a Klimt painting and decide to listen to Bruckner while looking at it 

I hope nothing was taken personally about my statement. But not being completely with the painting you are looking at, I think anyway, is cheating yourself out of some good part of the painting and being in it; I would say the same for listening to the Bruckner while also looking at a specific painting.

What can be rich, is connecting different art and ideas from an era, visiting sites where some of the architecture is also still to be seen, visited, and get some first hand historic sense of those things from the past which still interest and speak to us.

But some of what you did, and my spin on the literalism of it, is an increasing trend which I find at least a bit anti-poetic while it may seem highly poetic.

Some may not be old enough to recall it, but in the song, "Video killed the radio star," the lyric addressed how video had changed what was expected of the popular song lyric -- a literal narrative story line which could be easily transliterated into a video to go with the song. This did change again later, but initially, there were a flood of songs with video which were all storylines, the production companies thinking this was the only way to go. Compared to earlier lyrics, which were not required to 'illustrate' anything, but instead could be more abstract, about ideas, complex feelings, and all without a specific narrative. That trend did have a killing effect on many a good songwriter and the more abstract (and poetic) arena of lyrics they used to write.

There is something to highly recommend that with anything like a great classical piece or a masterly painting, you take each one full on without adding on to the other, like frosting an already very rich cake.

If Clara's adventure with Klimt and Bruckner was not to affix Bruckner's 9th to Klimt's _The Kiss_, so much the better, while one could still say it was very much an act of "Painting the lily." And there is no one to stop you if you choose to go at it that way. It does sound like you had a great trip 

There is a neologism, "Nocializing." The act is defined as visiting with your friends but instead ignoring them while being busy with your iPhone


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Then there is also the issue of certain composers adding puzzling subtitles to their compositions.

William Schuman's 9th Symphony is subtitled "Ardeatine Caves", the site of a 1944 Nazi atrocity.

I bet I could play this symphony for 100 music lovers who never heard it before and ask them to add a programmatic description of the music, and not one will say the music evokes descriptions of ANY caves! He creates a somber mood, but caves don't come to mind.

Schuman was probably more concerned with creating a mood of the atrocity that took place within those caves, rather than describing the caves themselves.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Poor Clara is not exactly poor, and I do not mean financially, if she can visit a Klimt painting and decide to listen to Bruckner while looking at it
> 
> I hope nothing was taken personally about my statement. But not being completely with the painting you are looking at, I think anyway, is cheating yourself out of some good part of the painting and being in it; I would say the same for listening to the Bruckner while also looking at a specific painting.
> 
> ...


thank you

Now, this is a fruitful discussion, and no matter what you think, I became richer with this 

Look PetrB,

most of the people here seem to be mature and experienced in classical music knowledge.

So there is no danger to use any external assistance (like Klimt's "kiss"),
to enrich the already most powerful 9th of Bruckner.

And now the most important

For me, art means freedom,
freedom to express myself, to feel, to create, to admire.

I want to try new feelings and techniques, so that to appreciate and understand more and more.

By the way, what is your classical piece? Try to see it differently

As for nocializing, what do you think we are doing in here?


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Is old Kentucky bourbon considered to be an anesthetic?


Is my JD old Kentucky bourbon?

if yes, no its not an anesthetic hahaha


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> Is my JD old Kentucky bourbon?
> 
> if yes, no its not an anesthetic hahaha


Actually, Tennessee bourbon! Your JD post was my inspiration for my "anesthetic" post to PetrB.

In the 1800's, in the old wild west, wounded cowboys would be given quite a bit of whisky before attempting to remove bullet fragments.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Going back to the OP:









Rachmaninov's Isle Of the Dead?
Not at all, for me it's the final movement of Mahler 2nd symphony. 
Look at the heavenly light rising from the background of Arnold Bocklin's painting...


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Actually, Tennessee bourbon! Your JD post was my inspiration for my "anesthetic" post to PetrB.
> 
> In the 1800's, in the old wild west, wounded cowboys would be given quite a bit of whisky before attempting to remove bullet fragments.


today i will have a different drink

i will try earl gray tea


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Actually, Tennessee bourbon! Your JD post was my inspiration for my "anesthetic" post to PetrB.
> 
> In the 1800's, in the old wild west, wounded cowboys would be given quite a bit of whisky before attempting to remove bullet fragments.


very nice and symbolic, like Bocklin was

I like this, and Mahler's choice is good


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

GioCar said:


> Going back to the OP:
> 
> View attachment 32716
> 
> ...


sorry for the above mistake
it goes here

very nice and symbolic, like Bocklin was

I like this, and Mahler's choice is good


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> today i will have a different drink
> 
> i will try earl gray tea


I like that too! Intoxicating flavor and I'm not a tea lover. Straight strong espresso is what I like for a pick me up.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> very nice and symbolic, like Bocklin was
> 
> I like this, and Mahler's choice is good


 It appears like that cup has much more JD in it than EG!!!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Actually, Tennessee bourbon! Your JD post was my inspiration for my "anesthetic" post to PetrB.
> 
> In the 1800's, in the old wild west, wounded cowboys would be given quite a bit of whisky before attempting to remove bullet fragments.


You didn't need to be a cowboy; you could have been a prim and proper school ma'arm about to have an abcessed tooth pulled

Ah, the good ole days


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> You didn't need to be a cowboy; you could have been a prim and proper school ma'arm about to have an abcessed tooth pulled
> 
> Ah, the good ole days


Kidney stone removal used to be a real treat. President Tyler, as a teenager, had a stone removed using an auger that was used to drill straight up from behind the scrotum. I do hope that underage drinking was OK in this case.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Charles Ives Symphony #3 (The Camp Meeting)
A Yankee get-together in New England-folks picnicking, children playing, communion and singing of hymns. A simpler time, long since past.








"Gloucester Harbour" Maurice Prendergast


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## Draugen (Dec 26, 2013)

hpowders said:


> I guess there must be some folks looking for paintings of medieval torture to be matched with atonal musical compositions.


I would say there could be a relationship between atonal music and abstract art. The 2nd Vienna School, I would associate with various modernist artists of the time.. Kandinsky, Mondrian, Paul Klee.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Frank Dicksee, Romeo and Juliet
Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet Ballet.
Need I say more? Sigh!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Draugen said:


> I would say there could be a relationship between atonal music and abstract art. The 2nd Vienna School, I would associate with various modernist artists of the time.. Kandinsky, Mondrian, Paul Klee.


This painting was actually inspired by a concert of Schoenberg's music (note the piano player and audience). They were friends for a while, but their relationship soured as Kandinsky started becoming increasingly anti-semitic.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^^Very romantic!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Schumann Carnaval. One of my favorite piano pieces, a whirlwind of characters and moods. Matched with Masquerade by Karl Hofer.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> This painting was actually inspired by a concert of Schoenberg's music (note the piano player and audience). They were friends for a while, but their relationship soured as Kandinsky started becoming increasingly anti-semitic.


very very right

this post of yours can start a whole thread

"Gesamtkunstwerk" is the word, and R. Wagner, whom Kandinsky admired, was the core of this idea.

total artwork

Wagner, Scriabin, Schoenberg, the three composers Kandinsky had very high


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PetrB said:


> What I think it does in the negative: I keeps the listener from imagining other images, specific or otherwise, if that is what they are prone to do when listening to music. Now, instead, Bruckner's 9th is forever attached to the Klimt, and whatever imagined music the Klimt may have conjured up is now blocked by the Bruckner having become attached.
> 
> What seemed like a highly imaginative and 'creative' act was instead rather literal, "this fits with this," and in realizing your dream connection, I think it was actually more self-indulgent than of any real benefit... i.e.* it has limited the future perception via a freer imagination of both the specific Bruckner piece and the Klimt painting* -- you have now extremely limited the scope of how both pieces may work on you in future -- and perhaps have directed your imagination toward becoming that much more literal and less imaginative upon making further realizations in the future concerning other artworks.


I just have one problem with this. Instead of telling her "go farther" you're indirectly telling her "you shouldn't have _gone_." Her first step of interpretation to you is a mistake which you're telling her to regret, that is what you are saying indirectly. She should never had associated those 2 things in the first place because it now made her _biased_ not to see _other _things. But how are _you _to know that she may be much more flexible than that, and in a few years comes up with something entirely different regardless? Then she could have two different images or pieces of music going alongside each other, perhaps some becoming obsolete, and as years go by, 3, 4 maybe a dozen different things all connecting in a huge web just about one painting or piece of music! Is this not creativity? It's creative because it is personal, it's an experience that can't be carbon-copied for someone else. If we are constantly rapping our wrists saying that we can too easily get it wrong so we have to keep searching, searching, searching until we see _everything_ and then be able to tell the world about our impressions, albeit tentatively, or perhaps be too ashamed the rest of our lives to say anything in case we were too narrow-minded, i.e. "wrong"... that's like musing about going on a long, epic journey from your home and all the pitfalls that await without even taking the first step outside your front door.

I'll tell clara s something that my own flute professor told me that's on ball with this topic. He told me that when interpreting a piece of music, never expect yourself to be the same all the way throughout your life. One year you'll see one thing, another year you'll see something else. Some things might never change too, which are indeed rare and personal. But interpreting music is about the here and now, about how you're feeling about it that very moment, and simply be open to the idea that you might just change, even if you don't. If you ever feel a change in taste, never be frightened by it: "oh no, why can't I see that painting how I use to see it anymore?" or "oh no! why don't I feel the same imaginative reaction to this piece of music the next time around?" It's ok! _Let that happen._ Tell me about it, that's happened to me dozens of times, and as far as I know, I'm still living and breathing!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique.

Van Gogh, Shepherd With A Flock of Sheep.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I just have one problem with this. Instead of telling her "go farther" you're indirectly telling her "you shouldn't have _gone_." Her first step of interpretation to you is a mistake which you're telling her to regret, that is what you are saying indirectly. She should never had associated those 2 things in the first place because it now made her _biased_ not to see _other _things. But how are _you _to know that she may be much more flexible than that, and in a few years comes up with something entirely different regardless? Then she could have two different images or pieces of music going alongside each other, perhaps some becoming obsolete, and as years go by, 3, 4 maybe a dozen different things all connecting in a huge web just about one painting or piece of music! Is this not creativity? It's creative because it is personal, it's an experience that can't be carbon-copied for someone else. If we are constantly rapping our wrists saying that we can too easily get it wrong so we have to keep searching, searching, searching until we see _everything_ and then be able to tell the world about our impressions, albeit tentatively, or perhaps be too ashamed the rest of our lives to say anything in case we were too narrow-minded, i.e. "wrong"... that's like musing about going on a long, epic journey from your home and all the pitfalls that await without even taking the first step outside your front door.
> 
> I'll tell clara s something that my own flute professor told me that's on ball with this topic. He told me that when interpreting a piece of music, never expect yourself to be the same all the way throughout your life. One year you'll see one thing, another year you'll see something else. Some things might never change too, which are indeed rare and personal. But interpreting music is about the here and now, about how you're feeling about it that very moment, and simply be open to the idea that you might just change, even if you don't. If you ever feel a change in taste, never be frightened by it: "oh no, why can't I see that painting how I use to see it anymore?" or "oh no! why don't I feel the same imaginative reaction to this piece of music the next time around?" It's ok! _Let that happen._ Tell me about it, that's happened to me dozens of times, and as far as I know, I'm still living and breathing!


thank you for the support

it is very kind of you to give your own experience and advice

but huilunsoittaja, things are much simpler for me

clara s could be an artist, in one of the fine arts.

She is free to get her inspiration from other fine arts and from representatives that she feels they will add to this inspiration.

Like Kandinsky did with Wagner's and Schoenberg's music.

Arts can all be interactive.

Klimt's "kiss" could be seen from a different angle, when combined with Bruckner's masterpiece.

Nobody, can stop an artist from trying, testing, expressing.

And your professor was a good professor, perfectly right and very open-minded.

Art is not something that we are obliged to do, it is something that our soul and spirit needs any specific time.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> View attachment 32826
> 
> 
> Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique.
> ...


you have good mood today

"fantastique" choice


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Anytime clara s is posting, it's a "fantastique" moment!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

William Schuman, Symphony #9, "Le Fosse Ardeatine" matched with Marc Chagall, "The Fall of the Angel".


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I sometimes think of this Caspar David Frederich piece when listening to Vaughan-Williams' _Sinfonia Antartica_ even though they depict opposite poles. (Yes, I know I am being literal here. But -  )









This will not make much sense to many of you. I'm not sure I understand it myself. When I was a young fellow first getting into hard rock, my sister had a piano in the living room. On the music stand (or mantle or whatever you call that part of the piano) was a song book from Franco Zeffirelli's _Romeo and Juliet_. I would go into the living room and crank up Black Sabbath to gene mutating levels and see that beautiful depiction of young lovers. The incongruity of the horrific doom-laden apocalyptic sludge with that beautiful image is forever etched into my surreal mental art gallery so that now I have trouble seeing Olivia Hussey (who is still ravishing) without thinking of Black Sabbath's terrifying _A National Acrobat_. But somehow that is still weirdly beautiful.









I know! I know! But therapy is expensive.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Anytime clara s is posting, it's a "fantastique" moment!


I will put it in my CV hahaha

thanks


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> View attachment 32878
> 
> 
> William Schuman, Symphony #9, "Le Fosse Ardeatine" matched with Marc Chagall, "The Fall of the Angel".


now you hit target

Marc Chagall is one of my very favourite


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Weston said:


> I sometimes think of this Caspar David Frederich piece when listening to Vaughan-Williams' _Sinfonia Antartica_ even though they depict opposite poles. (Yes, I know I am being literal here. But -  )
> 
> View attachment 32883
> 
> ...


yes you show some symptoms of literalism but its quite controllable, yet, as it looks 

I am sure that National Acrobat has a different sound when heard with Olivia's face on the book


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> now you hit target
> 
> Marc Chagall is one of my very favourite


Mine too! At the Metropolitan Opera House in NYC, there is a huge Chagall mural that greats you as you enter from just outside. His paintings are endlessly fascinating, especially the ones of a world gone mad.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Mine too! At the Metropolitan Opera House in NYC, there is a huge Chagall mural that greats you as you enter from just outside. His paintings are endlessly fascinating, especially the ones of a world gone mad.


he speaks straight to my soul

so sad that the paintings I love most, they are in private collections
and I am not going to admire them live (with the proper music of course )


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> he speaks straight to my soul
> 
> so sad that the paintings I love most, they are in private collections
> and I am not going to admire them live (with the proper music of course )


Well, we could pool our resources for one painting: 6 months on one side of the pond, 6 months on the other. My house is air conditioned just about every day.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Well, we could pool our resources for one painting: 6 months on one side of the pond, 6 months on the other. My house is air conditioned just about every day.


wow done

"the big circus" which is one of my best favourite, was sold 12,5 M dollars.

I propose to go for something cheaper hahaha

mine is on the coast, sea breeze 24 h/d


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> wow done
> 
> "the big circus" which is one of my best favourite, was sold 12,5 M dollars.
> 
> ...


Sea breezes are nice. Used to summer 2 blocks from the beach and 1 block from the bay. Hot as heck during the day, very nice after 9 PM or so.

Too bad! Last night I got American Express to raise my credit limit!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The more I gaze, the more I want it.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Sea breezes are nice. Used to summer 2 blocks from the beach and 1 block from the bay. Hot as heck during the day, very nice after 9 PM or so.
> 
> Too bad! Last night I got American Express to raise my credit limit!!!


sea breezes are more than nice, combining with the salty scent of the of the sea water drops

we should bit for the Sagall's "Birthday" then 
its even more expensive


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> View attachment 32992
> 
> 
> The more I gaze, the more I want it.


one of the best

Schuman's 9th matches incredibly perfectly

divine sense


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> sea breezes are more than nice, combining with the salty scent of the of the sea water drops
> 
> we should bit for the Sagall's "Birthday" then
> its even more expensive


Yes, but not so good for the car. Rusts faster.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> one of the best
> 
> Schuman's 9th matches incredibly perfectly
> 
> divine sense


Not satisfied. I spent $12 for the CD, yet the painting costs so much more!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Not satisfied. I spent $12 for the CD, yet the painting costs so much more!


in such a case, and in order to manage financial equilibrium,

you can organize a performance of Schuman's 9th, at the Carnegie Hall hahaha

I wonder, which orchestra and conductor you would use


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> in such a case, and in order to manage financial equilibrium,
> 
> you can organize a performance of Schuman's 9th, at the Carnegie Hall hahaha
> 
> I wonder, which orchestra and conductor you would use


Ha! Stupid I'm not. I avoid losing situations whenever possible.
However, if someone else wishes to finance such a low attended enterprise, i recommend trying to hire the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Leonard Slatkin. Big bucks, but they won't be my bucks!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Ha! Stupid I'm not. I avoid losing situations whenever possible.
> However, if someone else wishes to finance such a low attended enterprise, i recommend trying to hire the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Leonard Slatkin. Big bucks, but they won't be my bucks!


other have thought it before us

do you know what I found just now?

on 17 April 2014, at the symphony center of Chicago,
the Symphony Orchestra, with Leonard Slatkin,
will play the 6th of W. Schuman

small world huh?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> other have thought it before us
> 
> do you know what I found just now?
> 
> ...


Small world indeed that someone such as I, located near the Gulf of Mexico in the USA can be communicating instantaneously with someone located close to the Mediterranean in Europe. I find that miraculous!

Leonard Slatkin is a tireless champion of American contemporary music. Bless him for that! I just hope there isn't too much coughing during that performance. I hope the concert is recorded. I would like to hear it.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Small world indeed that someone such as I, located near the Gulf of Mexico in the USA can be communicating instantaneously with someone located close to the Mediterranean in Europe. I find that miraculous!
> 
> Leonard Slatkin is a tireless champion of American contemporary music. Bless him for that! I just hope there isn't too much coughing during that performance. I hope the concert is recorded. I would like to hear it.


clever hpowders

yes, clara s could be in the greater Mediterranean area

but she could be in the part of Asia, Europe or Africa hahaha

Florida is close to Chicago, what? 3 hours flight?

you still have plenty of time to book 

Slatkin deserves it


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

PetrB... I think you may have won the "Old Curmudgeon" Award in this thread. :lol:

Honestly, as a painter I listen to music almost continually while I am in the studio. I doubt, however, that I will ever find myself trapped into forever associating a given work of art with a given work of music. Off the top of my head there are a few works of literature that I find myself associating with certain works of art. Paul Verlaine's _Fêtes galantes_ may lead me to think of Watteau's paintings:



...and now looking at Watteau again I can almost hear the light and wit and sensuality of Mozart...

just as looking at the complex interior structures of a Gothic Cathedral...










... may lead me to think of the contrapuntal structures of Bach...

still I have no problem separating Verlaine from Watteau from Mozart or Bach from Chartres... or in appreciating each for itself. Surely making connections or finding analogies is a common human trait.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> clever hpowders
> 
> yes, clara s could be in the greater Mediterranean area
> 
> ...


I strongly doubt if it's Africa or Asia. My best two guesses would be Italy, perhaps Amalfi Coast; and Spain perhaps Barcelona, Valencia or Malaga; my third guess, Greece. Also, possibly Tel Aviv-Jaffa or even Croatia. 

You are right. It is 3 hours from Tampa to Chicago and I have never been to Chicago. I'll think about it. Doesn't sound like the concert will be "Standing Room Only"!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I strongly doubt if it's Africa or Asia. My best two guesses would be Italy, perhaps Amalfi Coast; and Spain perhaps Barcelona, Valencia or Malaga; my third guess, Greece. Also, possibly Tel Aviv-Jaffa or even Croatia.
> 
> You are right. It is 3 hours from Tampa to Chicago and I have never been to Chicago. I'll think about it. Doesn't sound like the concert will be "Standing Room Only"!


why you strongly doubt?

your guesses sound perfect, but you can add France, Monaco, Albania, Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon,
Egypt, Libya,Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco hahaha. Syria not this period of Time.

The concert in Chicago will be for 4 consecutive nights, and the program is very good.
So there is a possibility of SRO tickets

go and write a review

a new horizon might open for you


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> why you strongly doubt?
> 
> your guesses sound perfect, but you can add France, Monaco, Albania, Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon,
> Egypt, Libya,Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco hahaha. Syria not this period of Time.
> ...


Because to me you write and sound European (a compliment). Possibly Israeli. Well.... Monaco perhaps. The granddaughter of Princess Grace!

Your Majesty! :tiphat: (I didn't find any Royal Bowing emoticons!)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> why you strongly doubt?
> 
> your guesses sound perfect, but you can add France, Monaco, Albania, Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon,
> Egypt, Libya,Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco hahaha. Syria not this period of Time.
> ...


I will consider attending one of those concerts. Thanks!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Because to me you write and sound European (a compliment). Possibly Israeli. Well.... Monaco perhaps. The granddaughter of Princess Grace!
> 
> Your Majesty! :tiphat: (I didn't find any Royal Bowing emoticons!)


OK the old Continent it is

and thanks for the compliment

but not "your majesty"

Monaco has only princesses hahaha so it would be "your royal highness"

(but no,no Monaco, too expensive  )

If you attend the concert, tell me if it suits with Marc Chagall's masterpieces


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

You really should see the Chagall mural at the Metropolitan Opera. Dazzling.

I will help you book your flight. I'm looking now:

Old Continent to JFK, New York. I found 2 flights daily.

clara s (no caps) 2328 Mediterranean Vista, Building C, Old Continent. 
(You can insert passport number.)

8:17 AM or 4:23 PM (as if any flight leaves on such precise time!)


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> You really should see the Chagall mural at the Metropolitan Opera. Dazzling.
> 
> I will help you book your flight. I'm looking now:
> 
> ...


I saw the Chagall murals in the internet

they are two of them in the Metropolitan opera

so exceptional

book now hahaha

you know what old continent is huh?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> I saw the Chagall murals in the internet
> 
> they are two of them in the Metropolitan opera
> 
> ...


If I mailed a CD to clara s, Old Continent are you telling me there's a possibility it won't get to you? I'd better send it insured then!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> I saw the Chagall murals in the internet
> 
> they are two of them in the Metropolitan opera
> 
> ...


The first thing I used do when I went to the Met after I entered was look at Chagall and then have a vodka tonic, which is probably why I didn't see the second mural or anything else for that matter!!!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> The first thing I used do when I went to the Met after I entered was look at Chagall and then have a vodka tonic, which is probably why I didn't see the second mural.


do you remember what performance you saw in the Met opera?

to check if vodka tonic was the proper "aperitif" hahaha


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> If I mailed a CD to clara s, Old Continent are you telling me there's a possibility it won't get to you? I'd better send it insured then!!!


if you mail it to clara s, she will receive it, insured it or not 

and anyway, she is a most famous pianist in the old continent


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> if you mail it to clara s, she will receive it, insured it or not
> 
> and anyway, she is a most famous pianist in the old continent


I know. She had two famous composers competing for her affections. Wouldn't you have loved to be at one of the Schumann's soirées; great music, lilting conversation and great wine, so much laughter....now just ghosts....


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> do you remember what performance you saw in the Met opera?
> 
> to check if vodka tonic was the proper "aperitif" hahaha


Sure! I had a subscription for 3 years. One season I saw Peter Grimes twice (I had to pay extra for that!). I saw the entire Wagner Ring, Rigoletto, Tosca, La Boheme, Il Trittico, Die Zauberflote, Don Giovanni, Le Nozzi di Figaro, Abduction From the Seraglio, Fidelio, etc; I will never forget that....and the vodka tonics were memorable too!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

hpowders said:


> The first thing I used do when I went to the Met after I entered was look at Chagall and then have a vodka tonic, which is probably why I didn't see the second mural or anything else for that matter!!!


It was really hard to even get near the bar. Seems EVERYBODY had to have a drink before the opera.
Reminded me of the bars at the airport terminals packed with imbibers.
They all had something in common: they were expecting the worst, whether it was fear of flying or fear of opera!!! 
As for me, I just wanted to relax.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I know. She had two famous composers competing for her affections. Wouldn't you have loved to be at one of the Schumann's soirées; great music, lilting conversation and great wine, so much laughter....now just ghosts....


her life story is wealthy of experiences

imagine to have the great Johannes at your feet

your last 3 words are quite philosophical


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Sure! I had a subscription for 3 years. One season I saw Peter Grimes twice (I had to pay extra for that!). I saw the entire Wagner Ring, Rigoletto, Tosca, La Boheme, Il Trittico, Die Zauberflote, Don Giovanni, Le Nozzi di Figaro, Abduction From the Seraglio, Fidelio, etc; I will never forget that....and the vodka tonics were memorable too!!


quite a program

they ususally have important productions

and great performers


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> It was really hard to even get near the bar. Seems EVERYBODY had to have a drink before the opera.
> Reminded me of the bars at the airport terminals packed with imbibers.
> They all had something in common: they were expecting the worst, whether it was fear of flying or fear of opera!!!
> As for me, I just wanted to relax.


fear of opera is even bigger than the flight's

I was 15 years old, when i went to an opera ( i do not remember which now)
and it was so boring, that i could not take my feet in the end hahaha


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> her life story is wealthy of experiences
> 
> imagine to have the great Johannes at your feet
> 
> your last 3 words are quite philosophical


Perhaps their energies are bouncing around together, interacting forever in an ecstatic dance as 3 bright beams of light; Clara, Robert and Johannes.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> quite a program
> 
> they ususally have important productions
> 
> and great performers


Well that was over 3 years and 23 drinks.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> fear of opera is even bigger than the flight's
> 
> I was 15 years old, when i went to an opera ( i do not remember which now)
> and it was so boring, that i could not take my feet in the end hahaha


I was also around 15 years old (5 years ago? ) and I had a seat at the Met for Die Walküre about 10 rows back, downstairs-my neighbor got sick and offered me a free ticket and I too was bored out of my skull until 20 minutes before the end of Act One when Siegmund pulls the sword out of the tree that nobody else could do, symbolizing that he was a great hero (of course nobody even asked me to do it!) and the effort at pulling out that sword and Wagner's descriptive music, it's like WOW!
But then Act 2 and the first part of Act 3 went back to being dull with long monologues-I could have gone back home, taken a shower, come back and the same guy would still be singing the monologue! Alcohol must have been created for these moments!


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Paul Klee and Scriabin--because I think both might have approved of the association.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marc Chagall, Lovers With Half Moon.

Brahms, Klavierstücke, Opus 116-119. Brahms at his most introspective. Feelings of longing, loneliness and very likely, aching for Clara and fantasizing about what could have been.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Blancrocher said:


> View attachment 33188
> 
> 
> Paul Klee and Scriabin--because I think both might have approved of the association.


very nice

and both they had their own individual style

by the way Klee was teaching at the Bauhaus!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> View attachment 33190
> 
> 
> marc chagall, lovers with half moon.
> ...


my respect

what can i say

you will steal clara s's literature style for posts


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So glorious, clara s. One just wishes to be able to jump into it and become one or the other!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I was also around 15 years old (5 years ago? ) and I had a seat at the Met for Die Walküre about 10 rows back, downstairs-my neighbor got sick and offered me a free ticket and I too was bored out of my skull until 20 minutes before the end of Act One when Siegmund pulls the sword out of the tree that nobody else could do, symbolizing that he was a great hero (of course nobody even asked me to do it!) and the effort at pulling out that sword and Wagner's descriptive music, it's like WOW!
> But then Act 2 and the first part of Act 3 went back to being dull with long monologues-I could have gone back home, taken a shower, come back and the same guy would still be singing the monologue! Alcohol must have been created for these moments![/QUO
> 
> DIE WALKURE IS THE OPERA THAT YOU LOVE OR HATE
> ...


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> so glorious, clara s. One just wishes to be able to jump into it and become one or the other!


great painting, great music


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> hpowders said:
> 
> 
> > I was also around 15 years old (5 years ago? ) and I had a seat at the Met for Die Walküre about 10 rows back, downstairs-my neighbor got sick and offered me a free ticket and I too was bored out of my skull until 20 minutes before the end of Act One when Siegmund pulls the sword out of the tree that nobody else could do, symbolizing that he was a great hero (of course nobody even asked me to do it!) and the effort at pulling out that sword and Wagner's descriptive music, it's like WOW!
> ...


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Walkure too long??!!!!
Blasphemy
I think it's much too short!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Itullian said:


> Walkure too long??!!!!
> Blasphemy
> I think it's much too short!!


Yet I find the longer Gotterdammerung just right. To me, this is Wagner at his peak; also Die Meistersinger.

I've been called worse!!!

Do not judge me!!! My other qualities are good!!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Itullian said:


> Walkure too long??!!!!
> Blasphemy
> I think it's much too short!!


I hope you won't mind if clara s and I walk out and pay the bar a visit!

We should be back for Wotan's magnificent farewell to Brünhilde at the end of act 3.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> clara s said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds fine to me! The problem is Die Walküre is too long and the drink is too short!
> ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> hpowders said:
> 
> 
> > what? five - six hours?
> ...


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> clara s said:
> 
> 
> > An hour of that is the intermissions!
> ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> hpowders said:
> 
> 
> > "live" has its own beauty
> ...


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> clara s said:
> 
> 
> > Just be sure to have a tetanus shot a few weeks before! And hope the chronic coughers in the audience had their pneumonia shots as well. Too bad there is no inoculation for "acute boredom". That would make those coughs disappear like magic!!
> ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> hpowders said:
> 
> 
> > I will follow your instructions doctor
> ...


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> clara s said:
> 
> 
> > I have already scheduled you for a follow up visit right here on TC for tomorrow.
> ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes that would be nice. With a view like that, I wouldn't get much work done. Vacation. In pochi mesi. All work and no play makes hpowders a rather dull uomo.


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