# Overproductive composers



## Perotin (May 29, 2012)

I have recognized a repeating pattern in my listening experience. Whenever I listen to composers that have produced excessively large body of works, I find them somewhat boring, like Haydn, Vivaldi, Telemann, D. Scarlatti. Mozart and Bach are the only composers with large output, that I don't find boring, which is a sign of their true greatness, I think. Even if overproductivity doesn't reduce the qualitiy, it most certainly does reduce the diversity of music. Do you have the same experience?


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Perotin said:


> Even if overproductivity doesn't reduce the qualitiy, it most certainly does reduce the diversity of music. Do you have the same experience?


I think I can agree with this somewhat, for every composer you mentioned except for Haydn. Certainly his oeuvre isn't lacking in diversity.

I might somewhat question Scarlatti too.

But I still enjoy all those composers music just fine.


----------



## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

And then there are those composers who develop a tendency to repeat the same melodic, rhythmic, harmonic ideas with minor variations from work to work. Martinu and Holmboe seem to me to fit into this category.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

Not knowing much about music at the engineering level, I can evade a sense of disappointment for strictly structural reasons. So then it's a matter of how keenly I can engage with the flow of the thing. I'm never bored, because boredom is the final frontier of the mind, and when you suit up to go there it ceases to be boring. (they're studying this at that big particle accelerator, using Morton Feldman records) 

/love Holmboe, Martinu, Milhaud & Villa-Lobos, all over-producers


----------



## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

A mentor once told me, when I complained about boredom, that if I can stop resisting boredom, I could have a breakthrough in creativity. Put a whole new spin on boredom for me. 
That being said, I must admit that Telemann bores me! Would he still bore me if he'd written less? In a word: yup.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

CypressWillow said:


> A mentor once told me, when I complained about boredom, that if I can stop resisting boredom, I could have a breakthrough in creativity. Put a whole new spin on boredom for me.
> That being said, I must admit that Telemann bores me! Would he still bore me if he'd written less? In a word: yup.


Simple solution. Subject Telemann to that program that slows it down 800%

Problem solved. Voila.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kleinzeit said:


> Simple solution. Subject Telemann to that program that slows it down 800%
> 
> Problem solved. Voila.


It is still boring...


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

PetrB said:


> It is still boring...


Yes, but... as it's written in Genesis II: The Transmogrifycationing...

In the beginning all was void, and there was nothing.
And God said, Let There Be Light.
And there was still nothing.
But you could see it.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Funny that the names mentioned by the OP are some of my favorites of classical music.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bach's complete extant works are about 1,000 BWV numbers, taking about 170 CDs to hold them. It's estimated that another 1,000 works have been lost. So Bach wrote maybe 300 hours of music (conservative estimate). I don't recall anybody saying that the quality of his output suffered!


----------



## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

I've never noticed a pattern. Some composers with a relatively small output kept working on the same ideas (Bruckner), some composers with a relatively large output did everything (Schubert).


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Perhaps it is the constriction presented by formulae that can lead some composers to create a lot of the same music over and over; perhaps, alternatively, those composers simply write music that they know will sell and are careful not to move too far away from their signature (on a cheque) sound; perhaps both in varying degrees or something else entirely. I have seen Mozart and Haydn praised for constantly approaching formulae in new ways, that is to say that while they were largely subject to quite strict formal constraints they were always developing new ways to work within them, thus avoiding this issue of over-repetition. Whether or not that is true, it certainly seems to fall in line with the common perception that most prolific composers are not on the level of Mozart and Haydn, and these regrettably termed _second-rate prolifics_ are lacking the imagination (likely through self-doubt, as often seems to be the case) to really work within their own constraints. I have observed this in some prolific composers, while others never cease to amaze with the depth of their ingenuity, but I'm sure this division is no less true of composers who wrote comparatively little.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vivaldi and Telemann are quite enjoyable actually. Nothing wrong with being ambitious.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Perotin said:


> I have recognized a repeating pattern in my listening experience. Whenever I listen to composers that have produced excessively large body of works, I find them somewhat boring, like Haydn, Vivaldi, Telemann, D. Scarlatti. Mozart and Bach are the only composers with large output, that I don't find boring, which is a sign of their true greatness, I think. Even if overproductivity doesn't reduce the qualitiy, it most certainly does reduce the diversity of music. Do you have the same experience?


I'd say that the fact that Mozart and Bach are the only composers with large output that you don't find boring says more about you than it does about the "greatness" of Mozart and Bach.

Also, define "_excessively_ large". Is there a quota?

Snark aside, I'd say that the more of Haydn, Vivaldi, and Telemann I hear (don't know much Scarlatti), the more I find to enjoy, and the more variety I find. So, no, I don't have the same experience.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I find these era of Composers that you picked from to be the most accessible. So much hate on Baroque and Classical Era as of late. Makes me not want to be here.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Kleinzeit said:


> Boredom is the final frontier of the mind, and when you suit up to go there it ceases to be boring. (they're studying this at that big particle accelerator, using Morton Feldman records)


I'd like to be part of that study. I wonder if I could get a grant?

I have to admit, Justin Bieber is more interesting slowed down. It's kind of like a whale song.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> I'd like to be part of that study. I wonder if I could get a grant?
> 
> I have to admit, Justin Bieber is more interesting slowed down. It's kind of like a whale song.


Write up a grant proposal, has to be at least 1,500 pages single spaced, and a CV. Send it to CERN.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

John Tavener in da house yo
featuring MC Monstro


----------



## Perotin (May 29, 2012)

> Bach's complete extant works are about 1,000 BWV numbers, taking about 170 CDs to hold them. It's estimated that another 1,000 works have been lost. So Bach wrote maybe 300 hours of music (conservative estimate). I don't recall anybody saying that the quality of his output suffered!


I didn't suggest, the qualitiy of Bach suffered, but anyway, maybe his lost works got lost, because they weren't good enough. 



> Also, define "excessively large". Is there a quota?


I'd say 400 (or 500) works, not including miniature forms for piano or Lieder.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Maybe some Composers put too much into their Symphonies. Simplicity of the earlier Composers made the music more enjoyable. So what if it isn't incredibly dense like the later Composers. And maybe they didn't have anything better to do but Compose or was forced to. Either way, they did enough for me to be a fan.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

J Strauss II 

......


----------

