# Performer's Facial Expression?



## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

While orchestra musicians usually play stone faced and appear very professional while playing, occasionally breaking into a discreet smile if they are genuinely enjoying themselves, soloists, on the other hand, will often display dramatic facial expressions, presumably for the entertainment of the crowd. Many are fairly discreet, but many over do it (Yo Yo Ma) and some are really over the top (I am looking at you Lang Lang). Frankly I would prefer if most of them would really tone it down.

Conductors, can sometimes use body language and facial expression as a method to convey their intentions, and I can to some extent appreciate that, but many are also often guilty of overdoing it. I can probably understand it a bit more with conductors, if they are genuinely trying to convey their wishes through body language.

What is your opinion of performers', and conductors' use of facial expressions and to some extent body language?


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't think the visual facial language enhances or decreases my enjoyment or lack of it. Certainly a deliberate and pretentious facial expression is detrimental to the artist in the long run especially with played with certain types of music. But I won't get into that. It's also the same with opera singers on stage who act inappropriately and or with modern trash staging that do nothing to aid the music and plot. It's still possible to enjoy the performance with eyes shut.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Yes, some people emote too much. Some are too stoic. I had a conducting teacher who insisted that some wannabes take acting classes. To learn how to use the face and body to convey feeling. There's a conducting book by Jack Lee from University of Arizona where he demonstrates facial expressions. It's a hoot, but not entirely without merit. Bernstein sure used facial expression to get What he wanted. Reiner and Karajan were at the opposite extreme. Lorin Maazel made a funny movie about conducting that skewers the over-emoters. Hilarious!


----------



## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Performer`s facial expressions do not affect me much because I rarely watch performances, even in the concert hall. But when I do, it might be off-putting when the performer is clearly faking it (e.g., LL) otherwise I make myself comfortable with them if I believe the expressions are genuine (e.g., Lucas Debargue, Daniil Trifonov).


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Couldn't agree more. Clown gestures, be them facial or otherwise are simply here to appease those who see value in clown gestures. Jumping around like a circus chimp is also a 'no-no'.(Bernstein et al)... or closing your eyes to fake passion whilst conducting for long extended periods of time (Karajan)


----------



## premont (May 7, 2015)

Performers making faces may be very distracting. This is why I avoid DVDs where you often get the performers face right up in your face. At concerts from a longer distance it may be less distracting, or else I close my eyes most of the time. A lot of the concerts I have attended were organ recitals, and here one usually can't see the performer or only from behind.


----------



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

While there are performers who "act out" their preconceived notions of the emotional aspects of the music they are playing, there are others who are very genuine in their expressions but may express their emotions differently than we might if we were performing the same piece. This can be perceived by "us" as phony or contrived when it isn't.

Watch a dance floor at the next wedding you go to. You will see many people moving very differently to the same song. All that is, is their individual physical emotional expression to that particular song. It's no different with musicians. I've always felt that Mick Jagger looked spastic on stage, but that's just him being him. Some artist's movements jibe with our personal emotions and some don't.

V


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

What do you know? I've listened to thousands of records over the years, and I never noticed a single performers facial expression. There must be something wrong with my ears!


----------



## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Varick said:


> While there are performers who "act out" their preconceived notions of the emotional aspects of the music they are playing, there are others who are very genuine in their expressions but may express their emotions differently than we might if we were performing the same piece. This can be perceived by "us" as phony or contrived when it isn't.
> 
> Watch a dance floor at the next wedding you go to. You will see many people moving very differently to the same song. All that is, is their individual physical emotional expression to that particular song. It's no different with musicians. I've always felt that Mick Jagger looked spastic on stage, but that's just him being him. Some artist's movements jibe with our personal emotions and some don't.
> 
> V


On the other hand I have almost never seen significant facial expressions from countless orchestra musicians, except for the occasional smile. I think it would look a bit interesting if we listened and watched as 100 orchestral players during a Mahler or Tchaikovsky symphony emoting Lang Lang style.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Whether stone-faced or over-indulgent; I don't blame performers for making annoying facial expressions while playing. It's probably something that most of them do on an unconscious level. I loved watching Leonard Bernstein conduct. I never saw him in concert, but caught him on TV a few times before he died. Once he was conducting a really heart-felt slow movement and he started crying while he was conducting.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

John Lenin said:


> Couldn't agree more. Clown gestures, be them facial or otherwise are simply here to appease those who see value in clown gestures. Jumping around like a circus chimp is also a 'no-no'.(Bernstein et al)... or closing your eyes to fake passion whilst conducting for long extended periods of time (Karajan)


How do you know if what they did was more-or-less unconscious? When they asked Elvis Presley back in the 1950s why he danced the way he did (i.e. when they cut him off at the waste on TV); he said that he couldn't help it.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Sometimes when I'm at home listening to some of my favorite orchestral music by one of my favorite composers such as Mozart, Beethoven or Tchaikovsky, I start conducting the orchestra. Sometimes my wife will walk in and say "What are you doing?"; and I tell her that I can't help it, it just happens when I caught up in the music.


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Coach G said:


> *Whether stone-faced or over-indulgent; I don't blame performers for making annoying facial expressions while playing*. It's probably something that most of them do on an unconscious level. I loved watching Leonard Bernstein conduct. I never saw him in concert, but caught him on TV a few times before he died. Once he was conducting a really heart-felt slow movement and he started crying while he was conducting.


I do blame them. This super-emoting, face-making, jumping all around is a relatively recent development...partially a response to the "we have to make classical music more accessible" mania...appealing to the pop music crowd which is used to the idiotic visuals which are part and parcel of popular music performance. It is unnecessary, ridiculous and distracting.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

haziz said:


> On the other hand I have almost never seen significant facial expressions from countless orchestra musicians, except for the occasional smile. I think it would look a bit interesting if we listened and watched as 100 orchestral players during a Mahler or Tchaikovsky symphony emoting Lang Lang style.


I actually worked under a conductor who wanted his orchestra musicians to do exactly that!! extreme emotional facial expressions, lots of bobbing and weaving, rocking up and down, extreme [and distracting] physical histrionics, within the orchestra!!...this jackass actually tried to put such requirements in the job description for potential auditioners for orchestra membership <<applicants must "look convincing" on stage, and "display a positive visual outlook" while performing>> !!
The union negotiators instantly blew this tripe out of the H2O at the first meeting...
this guy wanted the percussion section to "look more like the Blue Man Group" [Boston] - IOW - lots of body language, extreme physical histrionics - they should "put in show"!! [smh]  
Gawd, what a pile of crap....


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> I actually worked under a conductor who wanted his orchestra musicians to do exactly that!! extreme emotional facial expressions, lots of bobbing and weaving, rocking up and down, extreme [and distracting] physical histrionics, within the orchestra!!...this *jackass *actually tried to put such requirements in the job description for potential auditioners for orchestra membership <<applicants must "look convincing" on stage, and "display a positive visual outlook" while performing>> !!
> The union negotiators instantly blew this tripe out of the H2O at the first meeting...
> this guy wanted the percussion section to "look more like the Blue Man Group" [Boston] - IOW - lots of body language, extreme physical histrionics - they should "put in show"!! [smh]
> *Gawd, what a pile of crap*....


A pile of crap for sure!! A jackass indeed!

I would love to know his name but I know you wish to be discreet and I am not asking you to tell us..unless you really want to!! 

As bad as I think this "put-on-a-show" trend is, I didn't think it had sunk as low as this conductor.


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

haziz said:


> On the other hand I have almost never seen significant facial expressions from countless orchestra musicians, except for the occasional smile. *I think it would look a bit interesting if we listened and watched as 100 orchestral players during a Mahler or Tchaikovsky symphony emoting Lang Lang style*.


Why? Isn't the great music enough for you? It is for me!

Such histrionics just cheapen the experience.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Haydn70 said:


> Why? Isn't the great music enough for you? It is for me!
> 
> Such histrionics just cheapen the experience.


Excessive rocking, rolling, bobbing and weaving is really distracting in an orchestra...it's also unnecessary, and is actually detrimental to one's ability to play, at least for wind instrument players...it can disrupt the embouchure and hand positioning, and interfere with proper breathing.
Musicians certainly communicate by body English. But it is generally subtle, visible to nearby musicians. Exaggerated histrionics are unnecessary and distracting. 
The aforementioned podium noodnik simply could not comprehend this....he wanted huge, ostentatious gestures....he also tried to appoint a section leader, which is total bs....the section musicians will establish those relationships on their own...the conductor needs to butt out. Give clear signals, let the musicians respond....


----------



## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Haydn70 said:


> Why? Isn't the great music enough for you? It is for me!
> 
> Such histrionics just cheapen the experience.


I was being sarcastic and diplomatic when I called it interesting. I think Lang Lang's "emoting" is way over the top.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

The scenario that Heck148 descrubed where his conductor wanted the players to make faces while playing is one thing and does sound quite ridiculous, but if the music itself is good, and the performer is doing it because he or she is not under the duress of a kooky conductor or stage manager, then I don't see the problem. Can't you just close your eyes and not look?


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Alfred Brendel said he used to practice In front of a mirror so he could learn to project himself visually to show an audience how he thought the music should be presented.


----------

