# More slow and dark Schubert lieder?



## Oortone

I've found that I really love the dark, moody and/or slow, calm lieder of Schubert.

So, considering how many songs he wrote I might save myself a lot of time by asking you experts here which other songs he wrote that are somewhat in the same style as these ones. If you see the idea why I group these together, you will probably understand what I'm looking for:

The dark (dramatic, moody) songs:
*Erlkönig
Der Zwerg
Gretschen am Spinnrade*
Der tod und das mädchen

The slow, calm/beautiful songs
*Ave Maria
Du bist die ruh
*Nacht und Träume
Erster Verlust

I know of Winterreise and Die Schöne Müllering so suggestions from those song cycles are not needed, but from all the other songs I know very little and I found I don't care much about all those more happy tunes. For me they feel outdated while those listed above does not. Especially those in bold are absolutley fantastic in my opinion.


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## Merl

I'm not a big fan of most lieder but there are a few songs I like a lot. This is one of them. It's about the spirit of a dead person returning to Earth. Very cheery stuff.


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## elgar's ghost

There are the fourteen final songs which were posthumously gathered together to make up _Schwanengesang_ D.957 - apart from _Die Taubenpost_ these could mostly be described as keening, poignant and reflective but taken as a whole they are not as bleak as _Winterreise_, at least musically speaking.


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## wkasimer

Try Litanei, D343:


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## Barelytenor

_Eine Leichenphantasie_ is a long one (about 20 minutes), almost a tone poem in Lied form if such a thing exists, telling of a ghostly cavalcade to a cemetery as a man buries his Golden Boy son. I think Schubert was either 16 or 18 when we wrote it. Don't listen to it if you are depressed.

Christoph Prégardien gives a bang-up rendition of it here:






Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## jenspen

Ha. There is an embarrassment of Schubertian riches in the categories you like so far. Just a few more famous examples that are similar to those you've already discovered:

Die Götter Griechenlands.D 667





Wandrers Nachtlied II





Der Wandererer





Ständchen (Serenade)





Im Frühling 





I'm going to stop here but he did compose over 600 songs and the majority of them have been recorded, so keep searching and listening.


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## Mandryka

Try to hear Karl Erb singing Litanei and Peter Schreier singing Nachthelle


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## Oortone

Thank you all for all great advice. This will keep me busy for a while.


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## EdwardBast

Der Doppelganger:


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## Josquin13

You might try listening to recordings by sopranos Arleen Auger, & Elly Ameling, and mezzo-soprano Dame Janet Baker in Schubert lieder. One of Schubert's best known songs that you didn't mention is "Der Hirt auf dem Felsen" or "The Shepherd on the Rock"--for soprano, piano, & clarinet. It's a favorite of mine, although it may not be exactly what you're looking for (I'm not sure). It may also partly depend on who's singing it. Sopranos Ameling & Auger have done excellent (but contrasting) versions. Here's a link to Ameling's recording (while Auger's is on her album with Graham Johnson that I've linked below):






1. However, I'd suggest that you start with Schubert's Goethe lieder (which includes Gretchen am Spinnrade, D. 118), sung by Auger, with pianist Walter Olbertz, as a selection of these songs closely fit what you're asking for (though maybe not all):





https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Goe...qid=1539463219&sr=1-8&keywords=auger+schubert

The following Auger album from pianist Graham Johnson's extensive Schubert lieder survey for Hyperion is another favorite of mine: https://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-Sch...qid=1539463219&sr=1-1&keywords=auger+schubert

Auger also did a Schubert lieder album with pianist Lambert Orkis (on a historical piano--which is worth hearing): 




https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Lie...54&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=auger+schubert+works

or

https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Arl...qid=1539466112&sr=8-6&keywords=auger+schubert

2. Dame Janet Baker: especially her 'classic' Schubert recordings with pianist Gerald Moore:

https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Lie...39463328&sr=1-4&keywords=Baker+janet+schubert
https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Lie...-5&keywords=janet+baker+gerald+moore+schubert

The old Seraphim LPs (personal nostalgia on my part): https://www.amazon.com/Janet-Baker-...1539466859&sr=8-1&keywords=janet+baker+double

3. Elly Ameling:

Here are links to four 'desert island' Ameling/Schubert discs of mine (note that the Pentatone hybrid SACDs catch Ameling's beautiful voice especially well, although the Philips CD is probably the more essential):

https://www.amazon.com/Elly-Ameling..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=XHJ30RGVAK68BAC5T61T--recorded early in Ameling's career, & her voice is especially pure & beautiful. The disc also includes Ameling's version of "The Shepherd on the Rock" mentioned above. Here too is an alternative reissue of the same recording: https://www.amazon.com/Elly-Ameling...d=1539468330&sr=1-6&keywords=ameling+schubert

https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Ave...d=1539463364&sr=1-4&keywords=Ameling+schubert--a classic Schubert recording.
https://www.amazon.com/Frauenliebe-...9463489&sr=1-2&keywords=Ameling+schubert+sacd
https://www.amazon.com/Lieder-Franz...9463489&sr=1-3&keywords=Ameling+schubert+sacd

Two of Ameling's Schubert recordings that was made later in her career:

https://www.amazon.com/Ameling-Sing...d=1539463364&sr=1-1&keywords=Ameling+schubert
https://www.amazon.com/Die-Musik-Fr...=1539463364&sr=1-10&keywords=Ameling+schubert

4. Gundula Janowitz is also excellent in Schubert lieder, and another soprano whose recordings you may wish to sample at some point: 




https://www.amazon.com/Lieder-Gundu...980&sr=1-1&keywords=gundula+janowitz+schubert
https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Lie...980&sr=1-2&keywords=gundula+janowitz+schubert

5. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf's Schubert lieder recordings with pianist Edwin Fischer are highly regarded too (although they were recorded in mono sound, and I personally prefer Ameling, Auger, Baker, & Janowitz in Schubert myself; even though Edwin Fischer is a favorite pianist of mine. I mention this recording because it's a favorite of others, and it won a 'rosette' award from the old Penquin Guide.): 




https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Lie...&sr=1-6&keywords=fischer+schwarzkopf+schubert

6. Here's another excellent Schubert recital to explore, given by American soprano Cheryl Studer, with pianist Irwin Gage: 




Considering that it's so easy to sample recordings these days for free, if you take the time to explore the above recordings, I expect you'll make many new discoveries along the lines of what you're looking for (& hear the songs in very fine performances).

I'd also strongly urge you to eventually explore the lieder of Robert Schumann as well, down the road, since Schumann was arguably an even finer lieder composer than Schubert (in my view); along with the songs of Hugo Wolf and Johannes Brahms.

Hope that helps.


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## Gallus

Behold, the greatest lieder ever written:


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## Mandryka

Oortone said:


> I've found that I really love the dark, moody and/or slow, calm lieder of Schubert.
> 
> So, considering how many songs he wrote I might save myself a lot of time by asking you experts here which other songs he wrote that are somewhat in the same style as these ones. If you see the idea why I group these together, you will probably understand what I'm looking for:
> 
> The dark (dramatic, moody) songs:
> *Erlkönig
> Der Zwerg
> Gretschen am Spinnrade*
> Der tod und das mädchen
> 
> .


The one to try for this type of thing is Der Zwerg, and the singer to try IMO is Quasthoff, this CD


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## Mandryka

Gallus said:


> Behold, the greatest lieder ever written:


He'd put on weight by then, he looks quite porcine, it's scary. I remember seeing him do Winterriese with Brendel when he'd morphed like that, he had his hair plastered back with brylcream and had big fat cheeks.

For some reason, I'm not sure why, I've just had a Proustian involuntary memory of Mr Creosote


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## jenspen

Mandryka said:


> He'd put on weight by then, he looks quite porcine, it's scary. I remember seeing him do Winterriese with Brendel when he'd morphed like that, he had his hair plastered back with brylcream and had big fat cheeks.
> 
> For some reason, I'm not sure why, I've just had a Proustian involuntary memory of Mr Creosote


Try listening with your eyes closed then.


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## Oortone

Mandryka said:


> The one to try for this type of thing is Der Zwerg, and the singer to try IMO is Quasthoff, this CD


Thanks a lot, but actually the question was not recordings of these songs but similar works by Schubert.


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## Oortone

Gallus said:


> Behold, the greatest lieder ever written:


Well I don't want to be rude but that's the kind of Schubert I really don't care much for. Neither dark nor beautifully elevated (it's hard to find the right words for a non-native writer in English here). Although I do think Schubert is one of the few composers who can write beautiful sad melodies in major keys this is not an example of that. Dieter is a great singer though, but the pianist here is not very interesting.


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## Oortone

Josquin13 said:


> ...
> I'd also strongly urge you to eventually explore the lieder of Robert Schumann as well, down the road, since Schumann was arguably an even finer lieder composer than Schubert (in my view); along with the songs of Hugo Wolf and Johannes Brahms.


Thanks for all advice.

Regarding your advice on Schumann and Brahms, it's interesting how different tastes are. I've never really cared for lieder before, and I'm more into orchestral music, but this Schubert thing really got me, I've always had a special relationship to his late music for some reason I don't fully understand. But I've heard a lot of songs by Brahms and Schumann and I doubt the same thing will happen there, I really don't like much of their music at all, not even the orchestral stuff. It has never touched me. Same thing, I've no idea why. It must has something to do with personality. 
But I fully understand that a fan of lieder from the early 20th century finds all these composers interesting. Makes perfect sense.


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## Oortone

EdwardBast said:


> Der Doppelganger:


Challange to Der Zwerg having the most intriguing title. That's definitely a lyric I will have to translate.


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## Mandryka

Der Zwerg is a disturbing poem charged with sadism, death and sex.


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## pjang23

The sublime 4 Gesänge aus 'Wilhelm Meister', D.877.


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## pianoville

Litanei auf das Fest Allerseelen is a real gem and also my favorite. Other than that, Auf dem Wasser zu singen is very beautiful and pretty dark.


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