# Low cost for a hard to get Beethoven Cycle.



## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

*Low cost for a hard to find Beethoven Cycle.*

This may have been covered before but I couldn't find it.

Rene Leibowitz Beethoven cycle is available at $2.69 for the download from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JWNY1QA?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top

I saw this about a year ago and bought it and it is still available. Well worth $2.69. This cycle was originally a Readers Digest mass market kind of thing in the 60's. Amazon comments mention some remastering that has been done, I don't know if with this recording or not. I do know I have to turn this one up a bit more on my headphones, but it is pretty clear. In all a remarkably strong cycle up until the 9th, which is the weakest of the bunch IMO.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm trying to decide if I need another Beethoven symphony cycle. My other complete one is also from the early 60s (Karajan). Still, the samples sound better than my collection of the piano concertos performed by Ashkenazy and the price is very tempting.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Money and music goes never hand in hand. 
You're get what you paid for.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I got that set when KenOC first mentioned it and it was only 99 cents! I rarely listen to it. Just bought it because it was a great deal. I should give Leibowitz another try. You should look up his cycle on Amazon. Last I checked it was very rare on CD and expensive.


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## tahnak (Jan 19, 2009)

Though I have not heard this cycle, I assume it would be a set worth listening to as Rene Leibowitz was a fine conductor.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Pugg said:


> Money and music goes never hand in hand.
> You're get what you paid for.


Not really a valid, general rule. 
It´s a recommendable Beethoven cycle, and a good offer.

Prices are different in Europe, though.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> Not really a valid, general rule.
> It´s a recommendable Beethoven cycle.


That's why I love this forum, all those different views.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> Not really a valid, general rule.
> It´s a recommendable Beethoven cycle, and a good offer.
> 
> Prices are different in Europe, though.


Not always a hard fast rule. We have Amazon Prime and there are a number of great cycles available for members as well as a great deal of fantastic classical recordings by all of the well known composers. The wife and I have a number of albums downloaded from there. If I average out the cost it would come to well under $.99 and album. Not bad price for Kleiber, Bernstein, Toscanini, Furtwangler, etc. Plus we get a whole lot more than just music. It's a hundred dollars a year well spent as far as we are concerned.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

These Leibowitz recordings can also be heard on youtube, although I can't recall which channel there . Just put Rene Leibowitz/ Beethoven symphonies on the youtube search engine .


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

The recording frequency range in the samples seems just a tiny bit narrow compared to more modern recordings, even to my aging ears. So I'm leaning toward "nicht diese Töne!"


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

The basic question, do you need another Beethoven cycle beyond the Karajan, meets with a resounding affirmative from me, though I wouldn't necessarily put Leibowitz in the top dozen. 
Here are my sets:
Bernard Haitink
Claudio Abbado
Daniel Barenboim
Georg Solti
Herbert Blomstedt
Herbert von Karajan - Philharmonia 1950s
Herbert von Karajan - Berlin Phil 1960s
Herbert von Karajan - Berlin Phil 1970s
Herbert von Karajan - Berlin Phil 1980s
John Eliot Gardiner
Leonard Bernstein
Otto Klemperer
Rafael Kubelik
I grew up on the Klemperer and love them - titanic, magisterial, vastly slower than today's tastes. John Eliot Gardiner is the opposite pole, swift, light, period instruments. Karajan's 1950s accounts are my favourite by him, followed by the 1960s. Later he was into the Karajan sound too much. For modern sets, I recommend Abbado with the Berlin Phil, Haitink,and perhaps Barenboim (he gets brownie points for his Jewish-Palestinian youth orchestra, but they are lively and good performances).


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Steatopygous said:


> The basic question, do you need another Beethoven cycle beyond the Karajan, meets with a resounding affirmative from me, though I wouldn't necessarily put Leibowitz in the top dozen.
> Here are my sets:
> Bernard Haitink
> Claudio Abbado
> ...


Need? 
Nah.
I lived all of my childhood and past college days with only one cycle, the old Krips Columbia Record Club edition. Purchased in the introductory offer by my father because "you boys need some culture". If I had never heard a Karajan 9th Symphony on the radio I would have stuck with Krips forever. I couldn't believe the difference.

I could lose all of my symphony cycles except one and be happy with that one no matter which it was.

Leibowitz is a fun cycle and inexpensive right now. Amazon offers these mega box sets from time to time for low price.


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## jcofer (Jan 23, 2016)

The Leibowitz Beethoven cycle was re-released on the Chesky label in the early 90's; don't know if they were remastered for that release. I notice that several of them are going for absurd prices on Amazon.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I have listened through this cycle a few times since purchasing for a bargain price. Every time I listened was on my stereo external speakers. Leibowitz has a unique take quite a few times that I don't mind. This last time I listened was with headphones, everything was reasonably good until the Ninth. My only thought was "yikes, that isn't what I wanted to hear". You can judge for yourself. All in all I have heard other cycles that I rank below this one. But it's one I simply don't need. I have my faithful Krips for automobile listening, so I don't need another average cycle. I guess I am stuck with this one and may listen to it from time to time. The purchase stays on my Amazon account even if I were to give the files away, which I am not opposed to doing.


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## maudia (Jun 25, 2016)

*Try Charles Mackerras / Hyperion and Gunther Wand*



Steatopygous said:


> The basic question, do you need another Beethoven cycle beyond the Karajan, meets with a resounding affirmative from me, though I wouldn't necessarily put Leibowitz in the top dozen.
> Here are my sets:
> Bernard Haitink
> Claudio Abbado
> ...


I acquired Charles Mackerras recently - at least it is the best First Symphony of the 20 I have - I have not listen to the others yet but it has very good reviews.

Gunther Wand is, for me, one of the top 10 cycles easily. His fifth, for instance, is superb

I do not have the Kubelik and the Blomstedt cycles, how do you reviews them?


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## PeterF (Apr 17, 2014)

I have just two complete Beethoven cycles Jochum / London Symphony Orchestra and Bernstein / New York Philharmonic.
The Joachum is part of the EMI Icon Jochum box which also includes complete cycles of Brahms and Bruckner.

Of the two, my preference is the Jochum cycle.
However, I have 4 symphonies by Walter, 7 symphonies by Szell, 4 symphonies by Monteux, 5 symphonies by Vanska and a smaller number by a few others.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

PeterF said:


> However, I have 4 symphonies by Walter, 7 symphonies by Szell, 4 symphonies by Monteux, 5 symphonies by Vanska and a smaller number by a few others.


Close to a cycle with Szell.

I like the Monteux cycle a lot (in fact, am listening to it right now) and it looks like the other 4 of the first 8 can be picked up pretty reasonably, the Ninth is a separate CD. But they also just released the whole cycle in one box set.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

The Leibowitz cycle is my go-to recommendation whenever someone wants advice on a Beethoven symphony cycle. Leibowitz takes Beethoven's metronome markings seriously, so it's quite brisk and lively, plus he takes a lot of the repeats that are often not observed (though unfortunately not all of them). It was recorded by Decca, so the sound even though it's from the 1960s is quite excellent throughout. It's got an HIP flavor, because of the tempo, though played on modern instruments. I'm constantly hearing things in Leibowitz' cycle I've never noticed in other recordings of these symphonies, and believe you me, I've heard them many many times. But when I check the score I see that they're there---it's just no one has managed to bring them out as Leibowitz does. An absolute steal at $2.69.

When I want to listen to one of the Beethoven symphonies for enjoyment, more often than not I turn to Leibowitz.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

gardibolt said:


> When I want to listen to one of the Beethoven symphonies for enjoyment, more often than not I turn to Leibowitz.


I have Leibowitz, but prefer the latter Toscanini cycle (circa 1950). Have you tried Zinman's cycle?


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Yes, I like both the 1950s Toscanini and Zinman's cycles. Zinman is an exhilirating experience, but now and then he comes off the rails a bit. He also takes some liberties with the score that I dislike (there's an odd violin solo in the Eroica, for instance). But for casual listening he's a wild ride and a lot of fun.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

As someone who collects Beethoven symphony cycles (on disc and downloaded) I really love to find uber-cheap cycles online. One set that was a pleasant surprise to me was Erdlinger's super budget set on Adamis which I bought for the princely sum of £2.19 from Ebay, a few years back There's not a dud performance in the lot, tbh. The 7th is very good and the 9th is a really impressive performance (honestly). The biggest bargain I ever got was my first full cycle of Beethoven symphonies - Blomstedt's superb set with the Dresden Staatskapelle on Brilliant. Bought it many, many moons ago in Superdrug for £1 (yes £1) when they were selling off all their old classical stock. Still one of my favourite Beethoven cycles (but I love Chailly's too).


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Merl said:


> One set that was a pleasant surprise to me was Erdlinger's super budget set on Adamis which I bought for the princely sum of £2.19 from Ebay, a few years back


Yes I got the Erdlinger set for a few dollars on Ebay. I was surprised at the nice artwork on the disks:









They come in an foldout cardboard case (I think it is 5 sections, but shown here only partly open):


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Although Erdlinger's isn't by any means a great set it's consistently pleasant, well recorded, well packaged and has at least 2 very good performances, For £2 I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep about losing money. My copy hasnt got the fancy packaging though.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Merl said:


> As someone who collects Beethoven symphony cycles (on disc and downloaded) I really love to find uber-cheap cycles online.


You often can find Ferencsik's cycle cheap. I paid $8 shipped and then saw if for less. The low priced sets are in this release:


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

That Ferencsik is another set I dont have or know. I recently picked up Karajan's 80s cycle secondhand (but pristine) for £2.50 just cos I have his others. I already had a few on individual discs but had never heard the full set as I just never thought he could improve on his the previous 2 cycles. I was right. It's one of the strangest recordings I've ever heard. The miking is bizarre and listening to it loud there's bits that make you jump out of your seat. It's certainly 'an experience'. I do really rate the Eroica on there though. The rest is not dissimilar to his other accounts but the sound is so unnatural it's off-putting. I own the Zinman set but it's never wowed me. I prefer Gardiner and especially Chailly. Chailly's 7th and 9th are wonderful.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Merl said:


> That Ferencsik is another set I dont have or know. I recently picked up Karajan's 80s cycle secondhand (but pristine) for £2.50 just cos I have his others. I already had a few on individual discs but had never heard the full set as I just never thought he could improve on his the previous 2 cycles. I was right. It's one of the strangest recordings I've ever heard. The miking is bizarre and listening to it loud there's bits that make you jump out of your seat. It's certainly 'an experience'. I do really rate the Eroica on there though. The rest is not dissimilar to his other accounts but the sound is so unnatural it's off-putting. I own the Zinman set but it's never wowed me. I prefer Gardiner and especially Chailly. Chailly's 7th and 9th are wonderful.


Ferencsik, as with Edlinger, is a good set but not outstanding. I never had a Karajan cycle and as there are several and people continually debate which is better. Zinman was a revelation to me. When I got his cycle I felt like I was listening to Beethoven anew. Toscinini's later cycle (circa 1950) also is very good but not as high of sound quality, but about as high tempo as Zinman. Those two and Monteux are my top cycles for Beethoven. I avoid slow tempo Beethoven like the plague--evidence being that I gave away both my Walter set and my Klemperer set.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Florestan said:


> -evidence being that I gave away both my Walter set and my Klemperer set.


Klemperer's Beethoven sends me to sleep. The sonics are good but it's so slow I wanna tell him to get a move on. Asahina can be a bit slow too. I still love Chailly's pacey Beethoven. I find Mackerras' cycle consistently excellent too - it aint superfast but the playing is wonderful. The new Rattle set is pretty impressive too but it certainly aint cheap!


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## Poodle (Aug 7, 2016)

Any cycle is good, not all are superior


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