# ballet



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

ballets have beautiful music which should not be overlooked.

to begin with for example Boris Asafiev's -


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Ludwig Minkus _La Bayadère_ -


----------



## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

I for one do not overlook ballet music - it is as you say (often) beautiful - though I find it has to be approached, listening-wise, in a different way to a say a symphony, or chamber piece. Best of all one should see the dance movements - without which it is little like an opera without the stage. Still, lots to enjoy simply as is through a decent set of speakers or headphones.


----------



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

My favorites.
5.The Nutcracker, 4.Romeo and Juliet, 3.Giselle, 2.The Sleeping Beauty, 1.Swan Lake


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> My favorites.
> 5.The Nutcracker, 4.Romeo and Juliet, 3.Giselle, 2.The Sleeping Beauty, 1.Swan Lake


 Great list! I also like Coppélia. From my childhood, when I listen to music, I always imagine people dancing to it. I do wonder, though, if that makes me a bit shallow compared with those who listen to the musical qualities of music, pure and simple.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> Romeo and Juliet


honestly speaking, i don't get its music except for _The Knights' Dance_ of course, i'd rather prefer _The Stone Flower_ by the same composer -






- that is, Prokofiev.


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Not to mention Lully


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Not to mention Lully


but its no ballet, its just dance.


----------



## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I _love_ ballet. The Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, Coppélia, Sylvia, La Source, La Bayadère, Don Quixote, Paquita, Romeo and Juliet, Cinderella, The Tale of the Stone Flower, Les Ruses d'Amour, Raymonda, The Seasons, The Limpid Stream, The Firebird, Petrushka, Daphnis et Chloé, Bacchus et Ariadne, etc.

At least, those are some of the ones I have on CD  The only problem is that only a few are regularly performed and it can be difficult to find performances of the rest.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Some favourite ballets ?*

Daphnis & Chloe/Ravel, 
Sacre/Stravinsky, 
Aubade/Poulenc, 
Agon/Stravinsky, 
Belkis/Respighi, 
Petrouchka/Stravinsky, 
Miraculous Mandarin/Bartok, 
Firebird/Stravinsky, 
La Peri/Dukas, 
Alla & Lolli/Prokofiev and 
La Tragedie de Salome/Schmitt.

The Russians and the French rule in this genre, generally speaking ;-).


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KRAANERG!!!


----------



## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Some ballets have great music which should not be overlooked (many of the ones mentioned above). But there is a lot of ballet music (esp.eighteenth and nineteenth century) which is intentionally, impossibly bland -- because ballet masters didn't want it to upstage the dance.


----------



## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

sharik said:


> but its no ballet, its just dance.


That's baroque ballet, which most people consider the first stage in the life of ballet, as it was "born" in the French baroque-era court.

(I like classical ballet best myself. Musically, my favorite ballet scores are Swan Lake and Cinderella. I find Minkus scores rather dull as music, although they do work really well with the choreography; for example, I really love Don Quixote as a complete ballet, but I'd never sit around listening to the score.)


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

hreichgott said:


> I'd never sit around listening to the score


of course ballet should be watched in the first place, to see beautiful movements of hands and shoulders and necks of the dancers, not only listened to.


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

sharik said:


> but its no ballet, its just dance.


Exactement, mon ami. Pour Lully, le ballet était la danse qui raconte une histoire.

What we call ballet is a 19th century development aided by the use of ballet pumps which allow a more flexible foot movement and the development of en pointe figures.


----------



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> Great list! I also like Coppélia. From my childhood, when I listen to music, I always imagine people dancing to it. I do wonder, though, if that makes me a bit shallow compared with those who listen to the musical qualities of music, pure and simple.


I have never seen Coppélia but I am delighted to see that the local company, the PA Ballet, has just scheduled three performances in March 2014. I'm sure it will be worth the wait.


----------



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Tristan said:


> I _love_ ballet. The Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, Coppélia, Sylvia, La Source, La Bayadère, Don Quixote, Paquita, Romeo and Juliet, Cinderella, The Tale of the Stone Flower, Les Ruses d'Amour, Raymonda, The Seasons, The Limpid Stream, The Firebird, Petrushka, Daphnis et Chloé, Bacchus et Ariadne, etc.
> 
> At least, those are some of the ones I have on CD  The only problem is that only a few are regularly performed and it can be difficult to find performances of the rest.


Did you forget?


----------



## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Shchedrin's 'Anna Karenina' and Khachaturian's 'Spartacus' are two ballets which I really enjoy listening to, and would probably enjoy seeing as well.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> What we call ballet is a 19th century development aided by the use of ballet pumps


which more important is that ballet developed an ability to create *characters* to convey emotions and meanings like for example in Khatchaturan's _Spartacus_ -


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Prokofiev _Ivan The Terrible_ -


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

sharik said:


> which more important is that ballet developed an ability to create *characters* to convey emotions and meanings like for example in Khatchaturan's _Spartacus_ -


If I want character, I watch Shakespeare. If I want good dancing music, then I watch Lully (or possibly Rameau).

Actually, if I want really good (non-classical) dancing music then Colin Dewar is hard to beat.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> If I want character, I watch Shakespeare


in fact *every* form of *visual* Art should create Character in the first place, otherwise its not art at all.



Taggart said:


> If I want good dancing music, then I watch Lully


but we talk *ballet* here.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Shakespeare


Moltchanov _Macbeth_ -


----------



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

_More ballet talk........_

Ballet has never been "popular", even back in the day- it has always took a back seat to Opera. It's too bad that the Viennese masters of the classical/romantic eras didn't take MORE interest in ballet music. They certainly composed tons of minuets and waltzes . Mendelssohn created one of the greatest works of ballet music ever(but he didn't know it) when he composed incidental music to Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream in 1842. George Balanchine used this music when he choreographed the ballet of the same name in the 20th century. I'm surprised this hasn't been successfully done more often. I've often thought that Mozart's Magic Flute would make a good ballet- it's great music and a silly story, which are the requirements. I would guess that it has been tried but, if it had been, it didn't stand the test of time and is not around today. At least not that I know of.
Well that's my take on it. Maybe you have a different one.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> Ballet has never been "popular", even back in the day


it wasn't back then but it is popular (relatively to the opera) these days that we already have such masterpieces as _Spartacus_, _The Stone Flower_ and _The Golden Age_ -


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

How's about a bit more of 'Bayadere?'...from a dance point of view, it's my favourite ballet.
I think this relatively recent dvd release of The Royal Ballet's production is probably the best available in terms of performance and blu-ray presentation!














But I really enjoy Nureyev's production for Paris Opera, too...


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

JCarmel said:


> I really enjoy Nureyev's production for Paris Opera


i like Lanchberry's orchestration but have to admit Nureyev was a lousy choreographer.


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> I have never seen Coppélia but I am delighted to see that the local company, the PA Ballet, has just scheduled three performances in March 2014. I'm sure it will be worth the wait.


I'd totally agree with this. I think Coppelia is one of the 3-4 ballets where music is never sacrificed to dance. I think it's one of the most symphonically sound ballets around...






RD


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

sharik said:


> of course ballet should be watched in the first place, to see beautiful movements of hands and shoulders and necks of the dancers, not only listened to.


I'm going to disagree with *sharik* here. I've never really enjoyed seeing a ballet live - I just don't get what's there to see. In fact, after 10 minutes I start wishing somebody would launch into a good aria! 

Having said that, I really love ballet music. In fact, for the past several years, I've been going to see various orchestras here in London play complete scores of major ballets in concert. A fantastic experience - all the good stuff without the sound of pointes hitting the wood 

RD


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

Ah! And the last thing before I overload this thread 

Dance technique and staging aside, I really think that musically, the Russians perfected the genre... After Tchaikovsky, ballet was a whole different game...

Here's one of my favorite moments. Gavrilin's _Anyuta_:






RD


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

KRoad said:


> I for one do not overlook ballet music - it is as you say (often) beautiful - though I find it has to be approached, *listening-wise*, in a different way to a say a symphony, or chamber piece. Best of all one should see the dance movements - without which it is little like an opera without the stage. Still, lots to enjoy simply as is through a decent set of speakers or headphones.


I wanted first to reply first to Sharik, but your post (KRoad) provides me with a 'better' entry, if you don't mind. What I wanted to say to Sharik (and now to you) is how much I regret the lack of sensibility on my part for ballet, that is to say the dance forms, not the music. I have attended a couple of ballet performances but have always been left totally ... unmoved. If I may reveal my philistine side, I find classical ballet to be so utterly kitsch. On the other hand, I have been to performances of 'modern' ballet (or dance) where the 'idiom' of the physical gestures I found much more engaging, for example dance troupes with the 'Merce Cunningham' touch, for want of a better term.
So once again, no problem with the ballet music (well, that depends), but certainly a big problem with understanding what the dance side is all about. Maybe I should stick with the football.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> I have been to performances of 'modern' ballet (or dance) where the 'idiom' of the physical gestures I found much more engaging


well i think i have posted enough of the most up-to-date and even ahead of this time ballets on here, what can be more modern than these?


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

With reference to your post, Sharik....I'm afraid that I cannot comment on how good or bad Nureyev was as a choreographer. But my recommendation for the dvd of his 1992 Paris Opera production was based totally on the excellence of the performances both by the principles and the corps de ballet. Below is an excerpt from a review in the 'New York Times' for when the production was presented in the USA.

" The United States premiere of the staging he completed three months before his death in January triumphed on Wednesday night through the outstanding dancing of its principals: Isabelle Guerin, Laurent Hilaire and Elisabeth Platel.
Appearing before a packed opera house as part of the France Danse festival at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts here, these three stars offered a performance to remember. Brilliantly, profoundly, confidently, they searched and found the emotional core of a ballet...."

Edit. I just want to mention also the Royal Ballet production from the early 1990's by Natalia Makarova because that featured perhaps my favourite Nikiya, danced by Altynai Asylmuratova. The dvd isn't the best in terms of visual quality...the youtube link below reflects this but is worth a watch for her performance.


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

sharik said:


> well i think i have posted enough of the most up-to-date and even ahead of this time ballets on here, what can be more modern than these?


Er, lovely. Back to the football for me. Sorry.


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

*TalkingHead*, do you mean American football? I have a colleague in New York who's always told me that watching (American) football is like watching ballet - and he is a huge fan of both. I could never get either...

RD


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

RobertoDevereux said:


> *TalkingHead*, do you mean American football? I have a colleague in New York who's always told me that watching (American) football is like watching ballet - and he is a huge fan of both. I could never get either...
> RD


Football American or European is beyond me too, as is classical ballet, unfortunately. What's curious to me is that even though a complete ignoramus about this form, I 'respond' with more 'engagement' when faced with a dance troupe nor dressed in tutus making the 'expected' moves. I really can't express it better than that. I know I must come across as some sort of hooligan in all of this, but it's not about the music.


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> I 'respond' with more 'engagement' when faced with a dance troupe nor dressed in tutus making the 'expected' moves.


I totally know what you mean! That's why for me, the epitome of dance is not ballet, but flamenco:






Having said that, as far as music is concerned (and this is a forum about music), nobody beats the great ballet masters like Prokofiev, Delibes, and Tchaikovsky. 

RD


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

There are sooo many ballets that I love.

Some samplings:

Some of my favorite stuff is in Act II. Bland eh? :tiphat:





I couldn't find a complete video of the Bolt Ballet which I found before, so I have a clip here of one of my favorite parts:





This is pure <3 <3 <3 <3 :


----------



## Ryan (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't like ballet, but I bloody well respect it


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

JCarmel said:


> 1992 Paris Opera production was based totally on the excellence of the performances both by the principles and the corps de ballet


sorry i can't agree with it either... here's how this ballet should actually be performed -






- not the best dancers but way better than Nureyev's.


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Well....each to his/her own Nikiya & Solor I think on this one, Sharik?!









A nice turn-of-leg on this Solor?!


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

JCarmel said:


> A nice turn-of-leg on this Solor?!


seems like in the 19th century they had a long way to go to understanding of ballet characters...


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Maybe...but it looks as if they had a good understanding of something else?!


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

JCarmel said:


> Maybe...but it looks as if they had a good understanding of something else?!


music, maybe, because these days they perform the scores in tempos way too slow. Swan Lake, for example, is impossible to listen to, for the tempo is so slow, should be played much faster actually like this -


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Shostakovitch _The Bolt_ -


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

sharik said:


> music, maybe, because these days they perform the scores in tempos way too slow. Swan Lake, for example, is impossible to listen to, for the tempo is so slow, should be played much faster actually ...


That's right! And since I normally treat ballet simply as programmatic music, I've given up watching it live - it always drags, and all excitement is lost. If on the other hand you get a good recording of Swan Lake or Coppelia or see the score played in a concert performance, it's a fantastic experience - you really start to appreciate the work of the composer.

BTW, *sharik*, where did you unearth this video? I've almost lost all hope for seeing Swan Lake danced at a tempo like this!

RD


----------



## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

Recordings of classical ballet scores are often purposely recorded at the wrong tempos so that it will be impossible for schools and small companies to use the CDs to perform the ballets -- can't dance the ballet to music at the wrong tempo.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

RobertoDevereux said:


> where did you unearth this video?


its downloadable from rutracker.org - a 1957 Soviet film released in the West by VAI in 2003.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

hreichgott said:


> Recordings of classical ballet scores are often purposely recorded at the wrong tempos so that it will be impossible for schools and small companies to use the CDs to perform the ballets -- can't dance the ballet to music at the wrong tempo.


- news to me... i always presumed they alter tempos in order to convey the iterpretation of a piece.


----------



## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

hreichgott said:


> Recordings of classical ballet scores are often purposely recorded at the wrong tempos so that it will be impossible for schools and small companies to use the CDs to perform the ballets -- can't dance the ballet to music at the wrong tempo.


Hmm... Not sure that some great conductors (e.g., Previn and Rattle) would actually purposefully alter their interpretations to prevent "illegitimate" use of their recordings. I find it hard to believe... Plus, over the past couple of years I've gone to see (or, rather, hear) complete ballet scores of Coppelia, Romeo and Juliet, and Swan Lake played in concert performances in London, and the tempi were just like the ones in recordings - i.e., generally faster than for stage performances - and there couldn't be any question of altering it to prevent anyone from using it, as nothing was recorded. So, I think I'm going to go with *sharik's* interpretation here...

RD


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Adam _Giselle_ -


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

sharik said:


> but we talk *ballet* here.


I have a book of Lully's music. Title of piece number 2 = 'Sarabande from Ballet des Plaisirs'.

I look up Lully in Wikipedia & come across the following sentences:
By February 1653 Lully had attracted the attention of young Louis XIV, dancing with him in the Ballet Royal de la Nuit.
His vocal & instrumental music for court ballets gradually made him indispensable. 
He introduced lively ballets of rapid rhythm.

Ergo Lully wrote ballets. Ergo Lully is relevant to this thread. Ergo you are in denial.

(PS there are many forms of visual art that don't create character. Landscapes & seascapes, for instance. They have a character, obviously. But so do Lully's Ballets.)


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> Ergo Lully is relevant to this thread. Ergo you are in denial


but you are free to elaborate on his 'ballets' anyway, post videos etc.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Schedrin _Anna Karenina_ -


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Daphnis et Chloe
The Rite of Spring 
Petrouoshka
The Firebird
Swan Lake


----------

