# Choral Works vs Opera



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm noticing a smoother touch in the approach to the singing style in Choral works such as Mozart's Requiem and C Minor Mass, and Bach's Mass in B Minor when compared to the Operas I've heard.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can provide me with some insight, are there different techniques utilized in these two different genres?

They sound similar, but I certainly can notice a softer touch to the Choral works. Maybe it's just the choral works I've listened to so far have been tame.

Insights? Thoughts?

:tiphat:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Yes, at least with earlier, pre-Romantic sacred works, the singing style traditionally uses less vibrato, some would say straight tone, especially noticable with boy choir sections. Some opera arias incorporate a lot of ad lib, like Callas' version of Rossini's Una Voce Poca Fa, while in sacred works, it would be deemed inappropriate, or irrevential. There is some use of ornamentation in sacred solo singing.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Conceptions of choral sound have been quite variable over time, in different styles of music, and in different national traditions. Current preference is for a very clean, minimal-vibrato sound in almost all music except opera, where the members of the chorus tend to be people who'd be singing solo if they were good enough (and some of them are just awaiting their opportunity). Singing style varies nationally, though, with German choruses traditionally producing a smoother sound than their Italian counterparts.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Do you guys have a preference?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Do you guys have a preference?


It depends on the period. In 18th-century and earlier music I like a very clean sound so that contrapuntal textures are clear. In Romantic music (Brahms or Mahler, for example) a warmer, more vibrant sound is appropriate to match the fuller orchestral sonorities.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> It depends on the period. In 18th-century and earlier music I like a very clean sound so that contrapuntal textures are clear. In Romantic music (Brahms or Mahler, for example) a warmer, more vibrant sound is appropriate to match the fuller orchestral sonorities.


Your posts are great by the way! Very well articulated, bringing complex concepts to a simplified communicable manner. That is a sign of greatness! Many can get lost in the abstract and not be able to communicate it with the masses, the greatest minds are able to do this. See Bill Clinton, or Einstein!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Your posts are great by the way! Very well articulated, bringing complex concepts to a simplified communicable manner. That is a sign of greatness! Many can get lost in the abstract and not be able to communicate it with the masses, the greatest minds are able to do this. See Bill Clinton, or Einstein!


Huh, Bill Clinton is one of he greatest minds? What kind of world do you live in? :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Huh, Bill Clinton is one of he greatest minds? What kind of world do you live in? :lol:


He is fantastic at speaking to the public people about complex ideas. That is a necessary trait if you want to spread your ideas!


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He is fantastic at speaking to the public people about complex ideas. That is a necessary trait if you want to spread your ideas!


Since i do not live in US, the most complex thing I remember from him is the Ms.Lewinsky's parables...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

cimirro said:


> Since i do not live in US, the most complex thing I remember from him is the Ms.Lewinsky's parables...


Sorry to hear it. The difference between that silly brouhaha and what we're faced with now is the difference between a very intelligent man with a character flaw and a collection of character flaws posing as a man.


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Sorry to hear it. The difference between that silly brouhaha and what we're faced with now is the difference between a very intelligent man with a character flaw and a collection of character flaws posing as a man.


Ah yes, I understand, anyway, "now", in this world, is something beyond my capacity to understand...


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Sorry to hear it. The difference between that silly brouhaha and what we're faced with now is the difference between a very intelligent man with a character flaw and a collection of character flaws posing as a man.


Which is who? Trump trumps Clinton in my book... in the good regards.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Do you guys have a preference?


If you mean choral sacred vs. Opera, I pick choral sacred any day. Even though I'm not religious anymore (for reasons as in the Religious Groups), I find that music very beautiful and moving.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Which is who? Trump trumps Clinton in my book... in the good regards.


Just pretend I didn't say anything.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Conceptions of choral sound have been quite variable over time, in different styles of music, and in different national traditions. Current preference is for a very clean, minimal-vibrato sound in almost all music except opera, where the members of the chorus tend to be people who'd be singing solo if they were good enough (and some of them are just awaiting their opportunity). Singing style varies nationally, though, with German choruses traditionally producing a smoother sound than their Italian counterparts.


Yes. Just to add some specific personal impressions to what Woodduck has posted: Though I haven't given time to opera for some years now, I thought that choruses in operas of the Romantic era (Wagner included) often sang like the group of individuals they actually were when seen on stage, but they used a fair bit of vibrato and produced a ragged sound.

My ideal chorus is one in which the voices co-operate in a disciplined manner, as instruments do in orchestras, so that the whole is greater than the parts. These days we are blessed with numerous recordings of such choirs creating a variety of sound worlds.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

jenspen said:


> Yes. Just to add some specific personal impressions to what Woodduck has posted: Though I haven't given time to opera for some years now, I thought that choruses in operas of the Romantic era (Wagner included) often sang like the group of individuals they actually were when seen on stage, but they used a fair bit of vibrato and produced a ragged sound.
> 
> My ideal chorus is one in which the voices co-operate in a disciplined manner, as instruments do in orchestras, so that the whole is greater than the parts. These days we are blessed with numerous recordings of such choirs creating a variety of sound worlds.


Listen to some of the live Wagner recordings made at the Bayreuth festival in the 1950s and 60s to hear what chorus master Wilhelm Pitz could do with the chorus. The choral singing in the 1962 Knappertsbusch _Parsifal,_ for example, is really splendid in its homogeneity and beauty. Compare it to the gaggle of would-be soloists in any Met broadcast (though there has been some improvement there in recent years). The Germans have long had an edge in this, while Italian opera choruses have been typically "every man for himself." This may be changing as national styles become more homogenized - a loss, in a way.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Do you guys have a preference?


I love both but if you've made a poll on it, I would have voted Opera.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> I love both but if you've made a poll on it, I would have voted Opera.


I think I'm the opposite, I prefer the Choral works but still love Opera.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

When I re-entered the classical realm around 2011 it was purely instrumental. I had a lifelong aversion to singing in classical works (with the exception of Beethoven's Ninth and Handel's Messiah). Then I got interested in choral works for a while. But then my Beethoven craze led me to his one opera, Fidelio. Eventually (about December 2014) dared to get a video, thinking just this one video because it is Beethoven. I was hooked. One thing led to another and now I have tons of operas on CD and DVD and most of my listening is opera (probably 95%+).


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