# Nothing Feels Real to Me Anymore in Music



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

This is what you need.






Back to roots.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> This is what you need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Certainly awesome, I think I just feel like listening to classical a whole lot right now to help me digest it. I'll come back around, thank you for sharing, I really loved that!


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

*Don't Waste Your Time*



Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


Very little pop/rock is worth your time.

Classical music [and a good bit of jazz] is the opposite. Nearly all of it's worth your time.

You're born, you live for little bit. Then you die.

Don't waste your time.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Neward Thelman said:


> Very little pop/rock is worth your time.


Albeit this is a classical music forum, that is one opinionated statement. I agree with you on the pop side of things, but don't tell me I'm wasting my time with Pink Floyd!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


I am the same. I go back to rock and can hardly listen, but blues music does keep me captivated.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

It just all feels bland, I know what I enjoy in other genres, but as of late, I just don't feel like putting it on.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Johnny Winter paid tribute to Son House's song (posted above) on his last album, posthumously released.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It just all feels bland, I know what I enjoy in other genres, but as of late, I just don't feel like putting it on.


It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Florestan said:


> I am the same. I go back to rock and can hardly listen, but blues music does keep me captivated.


It's interesting to me that Blues of all forms of rock keeps you captivated. It is perhaps the most repetitive style of rock there is in terms of chord progression, lyrics within a song, and subject matter.


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## Daniel Atkinson (Dec 31, 2016)

That's just primarily teenage arrogance right there, you'll come around. Classical music isn't above anything else, music exists on a continuum, it's not boxed in as would make you comfortable.

Though whenever someone makes such a statement about any non-classical music on this forum or other sites, for some reason they purposefully avoid any specific references to the actual music they allegedly liked.

*What* rock music did you like?
*What* pop music don't you see any personal value in?
*Why* don't you?
*How* does this apply back to classical music? 
et al


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing


Are you trying to tell me that rock has swing and that because of this I should enjoy it, or I should just keep listening to what is making my soul happy?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

*Everything Feels Real To Me In Music*, if I like it.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

"Blues is the roots, everything else is the fruits"

- Willie Dixon


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Are you trying to tell me that rock has swing and that because of this I should enjoy it, or I should just keep listening to what is making my soul happy?


Guess you never heard of that Jazz song?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Daniel Atkinson said:


> That's just primarily teenage arrogance right there, you'll come around. Classical music isn't above anything else, music exists on a continuum, it's not boxed in as would make you comfortable.
> 
> Though whenever someone makes such a statement about any non-classical music on this forum or other sites, for some reason they purposefully avoid any specific references to the actual music they allegedly liked.
> 
> ...


I won't say Classical is above, but it does have a certain culture around it of class and sophistication because the music is classy and sophisticated.

I listened to Dave Matthews, Radiohead, Phish, Paul Simon, Flaming Lips, Frank Zappa, Primus, Pink Floyd, a bit of Beatles, Beck, and Tom Waits. I still find inspiration to listen to Rufus Wainwright (but he has a lot of classical influence in his songwriting, and it's highly sophisticated).

With pop, I've never ever really listened to much, Michael Jackson is the one I explored the most. I just find a solid beat and groove too simple these days after listening to a lot of classical that doesn't rely on steady drum patterns and such.

Jazz is considered to be of high class as well, and I stated in OP that it doesn't seem to be appealing to me as much as of late either. I have many of the rock artists listed above albums, and several jazz albums as well. But classical has been dominating my purchases as of late and my listening time as well.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Guess you never heard of that Jazz song?


Of course I have, just curious how you meant it.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Of course I have, just curious how you meant it.


Just a different kind of view.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It just all feels bland, I know what I enjoy in other genres, but as of late, I just don't feel like putting it on.


Just don't do it my friend, waste of time and energy.


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing


Or the arrogance of this song too:






People have that attitude in all genres, it's ****

Can't people enjoy their music without making these stupid authoritative opinions?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

David OByrne said:


> Or the arrogance of this song too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true, I'm just trying to be honest with my soul. As I said above, Rufus Wainwright is one songwriter I still love to listen to, he is amazing. Check out this song that utilizes only an orchestra as the only backing instruments that he composed:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It's interesting to me that Blues of all forms of rock keeps you captivated. It is perhaps the most repetitive style of rock there is in terms of chord progression, lyrics within a song, and subject matter.


I never considered blues to be in the category of rock music, though there is some cross over. But the best I can sum it up is to point you to what Willie said:



Phil loves classical said:


> "Blues is the roots, everything else is the fruits"
> 
> - Willie Dixon


I used to have a Johnny Winter quote (but lost it) something to the effect of he checked out rock and roll, but when he got into the blues he knew he had found the real thing.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I keep promoting Blues in this thread because it "feels more real to me" than a lot of Classical. Yes it is a few chords over and over, but the soul and guts you hear poured out is I would say more real than a lot of the highly complex, structured and "calculated" music in Classical.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Phil loves classical said:


> I keep promoting Blues in this thread because it "feels more real to me" than a lot of Classical. Yes it is a few chords over and over, but the soul and guts you hear poured out is I would say more real than a lot of the highly complex, structured and "calculated" music in Classical.


With the obvious exception of Beethoven who had a lot of soul and guts in his music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Florestan said:


> With the obvious exception of Beethoven who had a lot of soul and guts in his music.


Yeah, that's why I said a lot of, not all.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Florestan said:


> I used to have a Johnny Winter quote (but lost it) something to the effect of he checked out rock and roll, but when he got into the blues he knew he had found the real thing.


Yeah, exact same journey as mine.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I keep promoting Blues in this thread because it "feels more real to me" than a lot of Classical. Yes it is a few chords over and over, but the soul and guts you hear poured out is I would say more real than a lot of the highly complex, structured and "calculated" music in Classical.


I used to be against Bach and Baroque period music because I found it too unemotional. Then I learned being pleasant and light is nice to hear sometimes as well. I agree lots of Blues is heartfelt, but I'd take a sophisticated piece that lacks deep emotion (which is what they were intending to do with it) over what I feel is unsophisticated and bland at this point in my life.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

David OByrne said:


> Or the arrogance of this song too:
> 
> People have that attitude in all genres, it's ****
> 
> Can't people enjoy their music without making these stupid authoritative opinions?


I never take those kind of lyrics seriously, just find them amusing. How do you find the lyrics to Roll Over Beethoven?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Another thing that separates Rufus Wainwright from other rock songwriters other than the great sophistication and classical influence is that he has a fantastic voice. The man can sing like a bird, it's incredibly refreshing!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Another thing that separates Rufus Wainwright from other rock songwriters other than the great sophistication and classical influence is that he has a fantastic voice. The man can sing like a bird, it's incredibly refreshing!


I listened to your link to Wainwright. To me it sounds like pseudo-Classical, especially with the lyrics. Sounds very sarcastic.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I listened to your link to Wainwright. To me it sounds like pseudo-Classical, especially with the lyrics. Sounds very sarcastic.


Thanks for giving it a chance, that means a lot to me! It's not straight up classical, he makes it his own. Certainly you can hear the Baroque influence! I don't typically listen to lyrics, however, just to how it all sounds and makes me feel.

I definitely LOVE Rufus. I think he is fantastic, he's quite diverse too. I won't try to sell you on him, but I know I really have a lot of respect for him. There has never been a Rufus Wainwright, and most likely will never be another! He is that good in my book.


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Portamento said:


> Albeit this is a classical music forum, that is one opinionated statement. I agree with you on the pop side of things, but don't tell me I'm wasting my time with Pink Floyd!


You are.

Rock on, 
Severius!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

He has also written an Opera that is quite good:

https://www.amazon.com/Wainwright-Figueroa-Symphony-Orchestra-Morrison/dp/B014XRP8VQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491537323&sr=8-1&keywords=rufus+wainwright+opera


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Perhaps try out his cover of Lennon's "Across the Universe". I find it MUCH better than the original, much stronger vocals:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Perhaps try out his cover of Lennon's "Across the Universe". I find it MUCH better than the original, much stronger vocals:
> 
> []


Whoa, i find Lennon's vocals more unique. Forget the Phil Spector version, the George Martin produced version is much better, though the vocals are the same.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Whoa, i find Lennon's vocals more unique. Forget the Phil Spector version, the George Martin produced version is much better, though the vocals are the same.


I've never really loved Lennon's voice, and the guitar work on Across the Universe (especially the opening riff) sound sloppy to me, like he's barley hitting the right notes. I like how Rufus' version builds to a climax by adding the strings, and I certainly enjoy his voice much more.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I've never really loved Lennon's voice, and the guitar work on Across the Universe (especially the opening riff) sound sloppy to me, like he's barley hitting the right notes. I like how Rufus' version builds to a climax by adding the strings, and I certainly enjoy his voice much more.


I think it was intentional, it sounds more rustic and less polished, the engineer may have recorded it like that intentionally.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I think it was intentional, it sounds more rustic and less polished, the engineer may have recorded it like that intentionally.


It really (and I mean no disrespect) always made me cringe. I'm not really big on the Beatles anyways, but Paul was always my favorite singer in the band. Much prettier, and he had real pipes. Lennon didn't even like his own voice!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It really (and I mean no disrespect) always made me cringe. I'm not really big on the Beatles anyways, but Paul was always my favorite singer in the band. Much prettier, and he had real pipes. Lennon didn't even like his own voice!


No problem, it would be boring if everyone liked the same music. Polished singing is not my thing in rock, except I really hate some intentionally bad singing. The guy in the Flaming Lips, and Mike Stipe from REM is in that category.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Perhaps try out his cover of Lennon's "Across the Universe". I find it MUCH better than the original, much stronger vocals:


I watched a bit of that and thought, okay that is different, not bad, but not really my thing. then the You Tube put up a documentary on Neil Young and I got caught up in that, which reminds me that Neil is one artist in the rock realm that I really like a lot. There is a lot of depth with Neil. I could listen to a lot of Neil Young but that I am so caught up in opera that I don't have the time right now. Maybe I should spin some in the car though.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Florestan said:


> I watched a bit of that and thought, okay that is different, not bad, but not really my thing. then the You Tube put up a documentary on Neil Young and I got caught up in that, which reminds me that Neil is one artist in the rock realm that I really like a lot. There is a lot of depth with Neil. I could listen to a lot of Neil Young but that I am so caught up in opera that I don't have the time right now. Maybe I should spin some in the car though.


I love Neil Young's guitar work to the movie Dead Man starring Johnny Depp. One of my favorite movies and soundtracks!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think I've always leaned towards liking music where the music (instruments and arrangement) are the highlight and not lyrics. That is why I could never really get into Dylan, I'd probably take the time to read through his lyrics one day, but I'm not inclined to listen to his music.

Rufus' music is very colorful and interesting, and he can actually sing. I also like that it's sophisticated and classy! I think those are the two main reasons I'm drawn to him so much.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Some Jazz albums I really Love:

Herbie Hancock: Thrust; Headhunters
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane: Blue Train
Chick Corea & Bela Fleck - The Enchantment


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Florestan said:


> I watched a bit of that and thought, okay that is different, not bad, but not really my thing. then the You Tube put up a documentary on Neil Young and I got caught up in that, which reminds me that Neil is one artist in the rock realm that I really like a lot. There is a lot of depth with Neil. I could listen to a lot of Neil Young but that I am so caught up in opera that I don't have the time right now. Maybe I should spin some in the car though.


I prefer listening to Neil Young over Opera, in general.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Classical, rap, pop, country & western, whatever else, it's all "real." It's all music. It's all entertainment. Just pick whatever entertains you the most. Music can be inspirational too so pick whatever works in that regard. I listen to a lot of different kinds of music and have music that I like in all kinds of genres including disco, but classical is the most entertaining and inspirational music to me the majority of the time. That said, the simplicity or auditory texture of some other forms of music (or of light classics) are desired in certain situations. One advantage that classical has over the various pop/folk subgenres is that there is a tremendous variety of classical music so there might be something classical to find every need.

I've never been big on caring about the emotionality of music. Well, let me refine that thought. I really don't care if the music reflects the composer's emotions or not. I know that's a big deal to some, but not to me. I want music that puts me in my desired emotional state. If that means that the music is a photograph of the composer's emotional state, fine. If that means that the music was written as a total crowd pleaser for fame and fortune, fine. Everyone deals with emotions differently anyway. To some, a feeling of loneliness may manifest itself in dark music. For some, it may manifest itself in positive, upbeat music perhaps in an effort to look at the bright side of things. For some, it may manifest itself in a total bon-bon of a crowd pleaser as the composer wants fame and mass affection to fill in the loneliness. I could go on. To say that music is only real if positive/negative emotions are displayed in a certain cookie cutter way is pretty silly to me and not reflective of how the mind works.



Captainnumber36 said:


> I used to be against Bach and Baroque period music because I found it too unemotional. Then I learned being pleasant and light is nice to hear sometimes as well.


While some Baroque/early Classical era music was written out of happy/sad emotions, there were certainly a number of popular works that were made simply as a business transaction. I'm not even sure which fit into which category, but it does not matter to me if I enjoy the music. I fully accept that a lot of the "class and dignity" portrayed in music from that era is pretty fake in that it didn't really reflect real life at the time, but it is nice to hear music that inspires one to live with or even think about class and dignity instead of the music that seems to accept and glorify the worst of humanity. Then again, hearing the harsh stuff might inspire one to live with class. The human mind is weird and consistently inconsistent like that.

As far as pleasant and light music being nice to hear sometimes, I totally agree! If we ignore classical music for a moment, what ever happened to the light instrumental pop hits that seemed to die sometime in the 1970s? Is it something that does not resonate with modern people anymore or are people afraid of being uncool if they listen to it (kind of like the death of the mainstream station wagon in the US)? I know classical fans like to make fun of instrumental pop, but it filled a void IMO. Well, at least the thrift stores are full of Bert Kaempfert, Ferrante & Teicher, and Tijuana Brass albums for those who want it I guess.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

"Just pick whatever entertains you the most. Music can be inspirational too so pick whatever works in that regard."


I definitely agree that it's all subjective and what moves you is personal. I think people that don't get hardcore into music have the best ideas on what they like and don't. They haven't been swayed by ideas of better or worse in music, or intelligent music or not, and other negative concepts attached to music by hardcore music fans. My mom is a great example, she just loves what she loves, if she hears something she doesn't like, she says it. It's so simple, but it's become really hard for me. 

I've gone through all the stages that come with becoming obsessed with something, including being a music snob, which I like to think I am not one anymore. I really respect anyone that really has an appreciation for what they listen to; that's all that matters to me.

I really just need to ask the question, do I love this or not and leave it at that instead of trying to carve myself out into a specific genre or culture.

At the same time, I need to know my limits and not say I love it all, which I'm capable of doing too in hopes of showing my "diversity".

I just need to be honest with myself.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I think people that don't get hardcore into music have the best ideas on what they like and don't. They haven't been swayed by ideas of better or worse in music, or intelligent music or not, and other negative concepts attached to music by hardcore music fans.


There is some truth to this. I'm sure we all have music we like because we're "supposed" to like it and dislike other music because we're not supposed to like it. Obviously a non-music fan may not be aware of the depth of music that's available like classical music, but sometimes even simplistic pop/folk music can cut through all the layers and barriers in our minds and have some sort of magical impact. Perhaps the simplistic nature of it is even helpful.



> I really just need to ask the question, do I love this or not and leave it at that instead of trying to carve myself out into a specific genre or culture.
> 
> At the same time, I need to know my limits and not say I love it all, which I'm capable of doing too in hopes of showing my "diversity".
> 
> I just need to be honest with myself.


I don't know, these are complex questions that can be asked well beyond the confines of music. Probably the best approach is to respect all kinds of music, but be honest with yourself about what you like and what you don't. Respect that others will have other tastes. Even then tastes change as time goes on so don't try to be too dogmatic with yourself about what you like and don't like.

I take it that you're pretty young. You'll have less time to listen to music as you get into middle age. Music then may be just a hobby instead of a way of life. Music is a fine hobby, just listen to what makes you happy. There's no need to worry about what the "music gods" think about your tastes or how weird your playlist might look.

I can only speak for what works for myself. None of this may be relevant to you or anyone else. Even then my listening habits have changed and will probably change again as time goes on. Anyway, I don't get a ton of time to critically listen to music so I try to make the most of it. I try not to think about anything, even the music, when I listen. I just focus on my hearing senses and take it in. In the real world, I have no choice but to think critically about language and such or else I'll get ripped off, lied to, scammed, and whatever else. Everyone is trying to sell you something no matter where you go. Music is an escape from that. I try to avoid the "language thought" (I'm sure a cognitive psychologist could define this much better than I can right now) as much as possible and let the music hit me in some sort of deeper way. I'm not afraid of music scamming me. That may explain why I hate spoken/sung words in music, I don't know. If there's words, I have to keep my language faculties up to avoid being persuaded into something. With just the instrumentals, I can relax and allow myself to take it in without filters. Maybe I'm allowing myself to be scammed by doing this, but I really haven't seen that played out.

Anyway, I don't even know where I'm going with all of this, but I think the point is to allow yourself to enjoy music in a very personal manner. It's just entertainment. It's just a hobby. It's just a way to relax. It has to be personal to you. Don't force yourself to like/dislike particular music. Let the music speak for itself to you. You'll know if you like it or not.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> There is some truth to this. I'm sure we all have music we like because we're "supposed" to like it and dislike other music because we're not supposed to like it. Obviously a non-music fan may not be aware of the depth of music that's available like classical music, but sometimes even simplistic pop/folk music can cut through all the layers and barriers in our minds and have some sort of magical impact. Perhaps the simplistic nature of it is even helpful.
> 
> I don't know, these are complex questions that can be asked well beyond the confines of music. Probably the best approach is to respect all kinds of music, but be honest with yourself about what you like and what you don't. Respect that others will have other tastes. Even then tastes change as time goes on so don't try to be too dogmatic with yourself about what you like and don't like.
> 
> ...


Music will always be a way of life for me. I compose my own music on the piano and get paid to perform (not much I must add) so I consider myself a professional musician. I'm also a Social Worker, and I love that work too. My professions must be a way of life for me, they must reflect who I am as a man.

But I agree, I definitely need to start enjoying whatever it is I love and go with it!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

So I've gone back tonight and re-visted some pop/rock/pop-rock I used to listen to and have come to the conclusion it does not come anywhere near the elegance, sophistication that I am provided with Classical (and limited Jazz). I 

I am getting rid of some Jazz that I used to think was interesting and now find (or finally admit) to really thinking it's rubbish.

Bitches Brew
Black Saint and Sinner Lady
Almost all Thelonious Monk (I really don't care for his style).


I'd like to add Jeff Beck's album Blow by Blow to jazz albums I love.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


You are now much more discerning with quality art music.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

ArtMusic said:


> You are now much more discerning with quality art music.


I wouldn't say that out loud, though I kind of think it in the back of my head, but I mostly respect anyone that is genuinely into what they are into and aren't posers.

But of course my closest musical colleagues will be into very similar music as myself, certainly!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> So I've gone back tonight and re-visted some pop/rock/pop-rock I used to listen to and have come to the conclusion it does not come anywhere near the elegance, sophistication that I am provided with Classical (and limited Jazz). I
> 
> I am getting rid of some Jazz that I used to think was interesting and now find (or finally admit) to really thinking it's rubbish.
> 
> ...


Whoa, you are an impetuous one! I think you are getting carried away with the moment, you felt you didn't like MozarT before remember? I think you're into the earlier classical eras right now. But Bitches Brew, the great Black Saint and Sinner Lady, and Monk's stuff, especially Brilliant Corners is not rubbish. Mingus like Ellington thought that Jazz is just a form of modern classical music, which I agree with, for their work at least. The Black Saint and Sinner Lady is an avant garde masterpiece, and i would say definitely more complex than what Vivaldi and some other classical composers ever wrote in their lives (not that I'm not a fan of Vivaldi's or more simpler music). You are still in the exploration stage. I think you shouldn't be too judgemental at the moment.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Some Jazz albums I really Love:
> 
> Herbie Hancock: Thrust; Headhunters
> Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
> ...


This probably does not stand with your picks and I never was a jazz fan, but did get into Tom Scott, starting with this album:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Whoa, you are an impetuous one! I think you are getting carried away with the moment, you felt you didn't like MozarT before remember? I think you're into the earlier classical eras right now. But Bitches Brew, the great Black Saint and Sinner Lady, and Monk's stuff, especially Brilliant Corners is not rubbish. Mingus like Ellington thought that Jazz is just a form of modern classical music, which I agree with, for their work at least. The Black Saint and Sinner Lady is an avant garde masterpiece, and i would say definitely more complex than what Vivaldi and some other classical composers ever wrote in their lives (not that I'm not a fan of Vivaldi's or more simpler music). You are still in the exploration stage. I think you shouldn't be too judgemental at the moment.


I feel like my head is clear for the first time, musically. I sometimes over-think or under-think it. But what I truly desire from music is class and sophistication (which are relatively subjective terms) and I have to love it.

I will say those Jazz albums I mentioned above to disliking are certainly filled with class and sophistication, but I just don't love them. The Sinner Lady gets to unrhythmic at times, at times it is also glorious and fantastic, but I can't say I love the whole thing as a complete work.

With Bitches Brew, I wish there was more structure and direction to the endless improvisation and shorter song lengths (unless given structure and direction that justifies their length).

Monk, I really just don't care for his touch on the piano too much. I much prefer Red Garland and Oscar Peterson's piano technique.

I'm more of a Kind of Blue/Blue Train kind of guy.

For fusion, I really enjoy Herbie's output, and Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow if phenomenal.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Florestan said:


> This probably does not stand with your picks and I never was a jazz fan, but did get into Tom Scott, starting with this album:


Not exactly to my taste. Thanks for sharing though!


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

I know the feeling Captain. I feel as if I am letting classical music down if i stray for a moment and listen to some Radiohead or Divine Comedy. Although, I normally only seek out rock/indie music if it complies with classical music techniques etc, quick deceiving modulations, interesting melodies and harmonies. I have yet to come across a band that has used fugal techniques and I wonder if I ever will, or maybe it has already been done and I'm forgetting or missing it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

As for not liking Mozart, I didn't ever feel the need to cleanse my music collection of his output. I came to the conclusion that Haydn just overwhelmed me with a freshness to the classical era that Mozart didn't bring and he won my heart. But then i realized Mozart was great as well upon revisit.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

beetzart said:


> I know the feeling Captain. I feel as if I am letting classical music down if i stray for a moment and listen to some Radiohead or Divine Comedy. Although, I normally only seek out rock/indie music if it complies with classical music techniques etc, quick deceiving modulations, interesting melodies and harmonies. I have yet to come across a band that has used fugal techniques and I wonder if I ever will, or maybe it has already been done and I'm forgetting or missing it.


A band doing a Fugue you ask for? Here you go:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

The Flecktones are one of my favorite bands!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

beetzart said:


> I know the feeling Captain. I feel as if I am letting classical music down if i stray for a moment and listen to some Radiohead or Divine Comedy. Although, I normally only seek out rock/indie music if it complies with classical music techniques etc, quick deceiving modulations, interesting melodies and harmonies. I have yet to come across a band that has used fugal techniques and I wonder if I ever will, or maybe it has already been done and I'm forgetting or missing it.


W/ Radiohead, whom I feel do have class and sophistication, I feel Thom Yorke's voice is very hit or miss. There is at least one song on all their albums where I feel he gets too whiny. However, when it's smooth and pretty, it's divine.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Whoa, you are an impetuous one! I think you are getting carried away with the moment, you felt you didn't like MozarT before remember? I think you're into the earlier classical eras right now. But Bitches Brew, the great Black Saint and Sinner Lady, and Monk's stuff, especially Brilliant Corners is not rubbish. Mingus like Ellington thought that Jazz is just a form of modern classical music, which I agree with, for their work at least. The Black Saint and Sinner Lady is an avant garde masterpiece, and i would say definitely more complex than what Vivaldi and some other classical composers ever wrote in their lives (not that I'm not a fan of Vivaldi's or more simpler music). You are still in the exploration stage. I think you shouldn't be too judgemental at the moment.


Music to me is a reflection of your identity. I consider myself a gentleman, and find my heart lays in music I find to be sophisticated and enjoyable. I have been listening to music for years, in the last year or so, I've been trying to narrow down what it is *I* really care about in music.

In the past I would try to be open to everybody's taste to not exclude people (which is really a bit crazy if you stop and think about it). Now I can relax because I have the mindset that I seek what I want from music and I am proud of it, and others have their own taste that suits their lifestyle.

In the past, I got caught up in trying to listen to music of "genius" and trying to determine what is a musical genius. Now I can relax because I for one no longer believe in the word genius and much prefer the term successful. Being successful in music, to me, is creating something that someone enjoys, even if it's just the artist him/herself. So, there is no objective musical genius, there is just you music you love.

In the past I got caught in being a music snob, trying to say I knew what good music was. Now I can relax b/c I know all Art is 100% subjective. But what you listen to does reflect something about you, no doubt.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Klassik said:


> In the real world, I have no choice but to think critically about language and such or else I'll get ripped off, lied to, scammed, and whatever else. Everyone is trying to sell you something no matter where you go. Music is an escape from that. I try to avoid the "language thought" (I'm sure a cognitive psychologist could define this much better than I can right now) as much as possible and let the music hit me in some sort of deeper way. I'm not afraid of music scamming me.


Word! What I hate the most in life is scamming, selling, advertising, persuasion, stealing, dishonesty, all that human crap. I never thought about it, but yeah, I think I like music also for that reason. I've always though that in music I can get closest to the Truth (which ain't much to talk about). Truth is quite far from the real world.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

If you want interesting, innovative, "real" rock


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

mathisdermaler said:


> If you want interesting, innovative, "real" rock


The voice doesn't quite do it for me, and the arrangement is a bit silly to my ears. Very much like Zappa, trying too hard to be different in my opinion. I know Zappa and Beefheart worked together too.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Lenny said:


> Word! What I hate the most in life is scamming, selling, advertising, persuasion, stealing, dishonesty, all that human crap. I never thought about it, but yeah, I think I like music also for that reason. I've always though that in music I can get closest to the Truth (which ain't much to talk about). Truth is quite far from the real world.


Are you speaking about some deeper spiritual kind of truth? Because there are several facts that are truths about reality that we can discuss.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Are you speaking about some deeper spiritual kind of truth?


Can't talk about that! 

But yeah, in this mad world, music seems to be the only voice I want to really hear.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


Welcome to the dark side, brother.

We have all the best tunes.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

To be honest many people in music industry are fakes like rappers.They talk about being a gangster but ARE NOT REAL GANGSTERS.Most in the music industry are just actors.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This certainly is one of the more interesting threads to come around in a while here as regards discussion of various genres of music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

mathisdermaler said:


> If you want interesting, innovative, "real" rock


Yeah, like that one. Especially Moonlight on Vermont. A lot of filler though.


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## Armanvd (Jan 17, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


You Listen To What Your Heart Goes To ,I'm Doing The Same But When You Talk About Musical Value , You Can't Say All Music But Classical Music Are Plain,Simple And Unsophisticated And Deep Down You Know It's Not True And I Know You Can Think Of Examples Of Complex And Sophisticated Music Other Than Classical Music.
Of course This Is Only My Opinion and I Might Be Wrong.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Armanvd said:


> You Listen To What Your Heart Goes To ,I'm Doing The Same But When You Talk About Musical Value , You Can't Say All Music But Classical Music Are Plain,Simple And Unsophisticated And Deep Down You Know It's Not True And I Know You Can Think Of Examples Of Complex And Sophisticated Music Other Than Classical Music.
> Of course This Is Only My Opinion and I Might Be Wrong.


1. Why did you capitalize every letter of most words in your response?
2. I do acknowledge Rufus Wainwright as being my favorite songwriter. I find his music quite to my taste!
3. There are certainly complex rock compositions, I just don't care about them anymore. My focus has altered to classical music, while still following Rufus Wainwright, and I don't plan on scanning jazz in future. I have a small but mighty collection of some classics that I adore, and that is enough for me.

*Trust me, I need these kinds of limitations, or I'll go crazy. I don't feel I'm missing much either, classical has the most captivating music to me for the most part anyways.


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## Armanvd (Jan 17, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> 1. Why did you capitalize every letter of most words in your response?
> 2. I do acknowledge Rufus Wainwright as being my favorite songwriter. I find his music quite to my taste!
> 3. There are certainly complex rock compositions, I just don't care about them anymore. My focus has altered to classical music, while still following Rufus Wainwright, and I don't plan on scanning jazz in future. I have a small but mighty collection of some classics that I adore, and that is enough for me.
> 
> *Trust me, I need these kinds of limitations, or I'll go crazy. I don't feel I'm missing much either, classical has the most captivating music to me for the most part anyways.


It's Just My Typing Style 
As I Said Before , You Listen To What Your Heart Goes To and Enjoy Yourself.Since Last Year I Mostly Listen To Classical Music Too.


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

There are some very interesting themes/topics touched on and explored well by others in this thread, so I'll try to keep my contribution brief and to the point....

I have dived head-first into classical music in the past few months, so my energy and listening attention has been largely limited to classical music lately. However, I will always respect and enjoy some pop, jazz and blues. I have rarely in my life been interested in what is popular, when it is popular (sometimes much later, I will be interested). However, I was lucky as a child to be exposed to a wide variety of music. So I have always been able to appreciate classical, jazz, blues and pop - but I also early in my life developed a relatively demanding taste in music. I learned early to recognize talent and innovation, versus musicians and writers who were in it for money and/or fame, or were just not very talented.

Pop: I am not interested in most pop, which I find boring. However, there have been big exceptions. I "discovered" the music of Jacques Brel about 20 years ago. Although some of his lyrics treat women in a way few of us would find acceptable today, in general his wit and songwriting abilities were unequalled in the pop realm. He was an amazing performer, also. Look also at the career of Edith Piaf, Leonard Cohen, and some other unique and creative people - I could never be entirely uninterested in them. 

Often, long after a pop song is popular, I will listen to it with less prejudice and realize it is really good - for example, some of the Beatles music is in that category for me (e.g. Eleanor Rigby, Let It Be). From the same era, try listening to "Hung Up On A Dream" by The Zombies - I will always be impressed by that kind of talent and thoughtful creativity. I dare you not to be moved by Shirley Bassey singing "Ballad of the Sad Young Men." 

One thing many talented pop song writers and performers have in common: a background in classical music, which is reflected in their music. You can hear it in the music of The Beatles and others. It is no coincidence that many of my favorite jazz and pop musicians as a child (and today) were heavily influenced by classical music, such as: Dave Brubeck (and his quartet), The Modern Jazz Quartet, and others in the jazz world, and in the pop/rock world: Yes, Peter Gabriel and Genesis, and more. 

So, I don't see a clear distinction between the various music worlds we categorize as pop, blues, rock, classical, folk - they are often mixed up and they clearly influence each other. Lately, other than classical music, I listen mainly to "roots" blues, and some jazz. Most recent pop music is too thickly congealed with electronic overproduction and cheap sentiment to sound real to me. I've been listening to Mississippi John Hurt, Son House, Robert Johnson and the like, as well as Sister Rosetta Tharpe (the true predecessor to rock and roll stars - not Elvis or Chuck Berry - although Berry was smart about writing songs with crossover appeal).

One last word about emotion in classical music. I think there is a lot of emotion in Baroque music - but it is hidden and tamped down by the customs of the time. It wasn't acceptable to show one's emotions in public the way it is today, and that is reflected in the music - particularly in that much of what we hear was meant for performance in churches. In a way, the emotion in Baroque music is more interesting because it is so controlled and semi-buried. That combination of control and emotion makes the music more beautiful, in the hands of Bach and other talented composers.

OK, I see that I've failed in my brevity goal....oh well.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> The voice doesn't quite do it for me, and the arrangement is a bit silly to my ears. Very much like Zappa, trying too hard to be different in my opinion. I know Zappa and Beefheart worked together too.


. I find that surprising coming from someone who likes blues music. Beefheart's voice is classic blues in the vein of Howlin' Wolf. The arrangement is not silly to me, but I definitely see how you could perceive it that way. This video is an interesting and enlightening analysis of it (begins 17:20):






I don't get that from Zappa. His corny "weird for weirdness's sake" humor never did it for me, but I never saw it as a sign of pretense, just his admittedly juvenile sense of humor. Yes, Zappa produced this album 

I guess what it comes down to is just different strokes for different folks. To me this album is one of the greatest musical works on earth.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

mathisdermaler said:


> . I find that surprising coming from someone who likes blues music. Beefheart's voice is classic blues in the vein of Howlin' Wolf. The arrangement is not silly to me, but I definitely see how you could perceive it that way. This video is an interesting and enlightening analysis of it (begins 17:20):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could never get into this, I'm a Zappa fan but definatetly not a Beefheart fan Zappa himself did support and promote Beefheart at times and said himself 
"I wanted to do the album as if it were an anthropological field recording -- in his house" which for me sums up this record.......

Now Zappa thats is something else and does make other pop/rock music sound dull- I think because Zappa was often composing his music in a classical music style.....


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Florestan said:


> This certainly is one of the more interesting threads to come around in a while here as regards discussion of various genres of music.


Certainly one of the weirdest!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Lenny said:


> Word! What I hate the most in life is scamming, selling, advertising, persuasion, stealing, dishonesty, all that human crap. I never thought about it, but yeah, I think I like music also for that reason. I've always though that in music I can get closest to the Truth (which ain't much to talk about). Truth is quite far from the real world.


I once listened to an interview Maestro Muti gave with Charlie Rose, an American talk show host. Muti said that music won't lie to you. He was then quick to say afterwards to forget about opera when thinking about that, but instrumental music won't scam you. I mean I suppose it could if someone secretly put the Coca-Cola jingle into instrumental music, but otherwise it is true.



mtmailey said:


> To be honest many people in music industry are fakes like rappers.They talk about being a gangster but ARE NOT REAL GANGSTERS.Most in the music industry are just actors.


Even with what I said above, it's still best to think of all music as being fictional works. Obviously we've seen the fake gangsters in rap, the fake anti-authoritarianism in rock, the fake heartthrobs in pop, the fake cowboys in country. The thing that always gets me with pop music are the songs with lyrics about breakups and such when the singers (and probably songwriters) are married. But it's important to remember also that a lot of classical music, even from the most popular composers, were written as a business transaction as well. Just because the music "industry" was completely different before does not mean that fake elements did not exist then. People were still seeking out fame and fortune - it's an important part of humanity!



NorthernHarrier said:


> OK, I see that I've failed in my brevity goal....oh well.


No worries, I fail at that all the time!

On another note, another thing that causes me to avoid a lot of pop genres these days is the terrible sound quality of the recordings. Some of this is due to the way the music is written. Many genres just try to be loud and boomy all the time. That's rubbish music IMO. But even when the music isn't specifically written that way, the music is mastered to be loud and in your face all the time on recordings. It just makes for a terrible listening experience IMO. Classical music is generally recorded and mastered well. That can really spoil a person who is used to listening to classical music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

mathisdermaler said:


> . I find that surprising coming from someone who likes blues music. Beefheart's voice is classic blues in the vein of Howlin' Wolf. The arrangement is not silly to me, but I definitely see how you could perceive it that way. This video is an interesting and enlightening analysis of it (begins 17:2
> I don't get that from Zappa. His corny "weird for weirdness's sake" humor never did it for me, but I never saw it as a sign of pretense, just his admittedly juvenile sense of humor. Yes, Zappa produced this album
> 
> I guess what it comes down to is just different strokes for different folks. To me this album is one of the greatest musical works on earth.


Didn't the band practice the piece like for a year and a half before recording it?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> I prefer listening to Neil Young over Opera, in general.


Good God man that would not be difficult, after all your talking about opera


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Klassik said:


> No worries, I fail at that all the time!
> 
> On another note, another thing that causes me to avoid a lot of pop genres these days is the terrible sound quality of the recordings. Some of this is due to the way the music is written. Many genres just try to be loud and boomy all the time. That's rubbish music IMO. But even when the music isn't specifically written that way, the music is mastered to be loud and in your face all the time on recordings. It just makes for a terrible listening experience IMO. Classical music is generally recorded and mastered well. That can really spoil a person who is used to listening to classical music.


I read somewhere they found the louder they record the music, the more records they sell. As they said, and I ran some recordings through a digital processor and fiund it was true, the levels are turned up so high there is actually some clipping, where the loud parts are distorted.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I could never get into this, I'm a Zappa fan but definatetly not a Beefheart fan Zappa himself did support and promote Beefheart at times and said himself
> "I wanted to do the album as if it were an anthropological field recording -- in his house" which for me sums up this record.......
> 
> Now Zappa thats is something else and does make other pop/rock music sound dull- I think because Zappa was often composing his music in a classical music style.....]


So what is actually the ugliest part of your body?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> So what is actually the ugliest part of your body?


Your mind apparently


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

More Ghoul


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I read somewhere they found the louder they record the music, the more records they sell. As they said, and I ran some recordings through a digital processor and fiund it was true, the levels are turned up so high there is actually some clipping, where the loud parts are distorted.


This is true for a few reasons. Studies show that the louder the music is, people will prefer it over the same music that is recorded less loudly. Of course, sometimes the record labels take this too far and push the levels into clipping!

But, yeah, this factor is what makes comparing classical recordings so difficult. You could take the same recording, but have one mastered a little hotter. If played back at the same volume setting on the amp, people will probably pick the louder one as being better. Some people may say they prefer a particular performance just because of the mastering.

Back to rock/pop music, music without dynamics are easier to listen to to some extent. One does not always have to fiddle around with the volume control. Also, loud all the time music can also make cheap headphones, speakers, and car stereos sound better. There is actually some consumer preference for pop music to be recorded the way it is. Fortunately, classical music isn't recorded this way perhaps because the assumption is that the listener is listening on a home stereo of decent quality.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


That's fine; you are going through a "phase." Keep your mind open to all forms of music, and try to learn something from what catches your ear, and ignore the rest.

Just like people: you can learn something from every person you connect with.

I realize, though, that in this era, we are constantly bombarded by music and images, most of it designed to sell something. Plus, classical music probably gets less airplay than country or pop.

Classical music then becomes a real sanctuary from the storm, especially as you get older and your nervous system needs more pampering. So, right on, brother, keep listening!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm so excited about all the music I get the chance to get to know more, and all the exciting first listens to works that truly strike me. "Now I'm in a whole new world with TC".


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> That's fine; you are going through a "phase." Keep your mind open to all forms of music, and try to learn something from what catches your ear, and ignore the rest.
> 
> Just like people: you can learn something from every person you connect with.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's a phase, my taste has always been leading up to classical music, I just know it in my heart. It took many steps, but i'm here. I'm not sure if anyone else can resonate with going through stages with other music and continually having your tastes become more and more refined.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I don't think it's a phase, my taste has always been leading up to classical music, I just know it in my heart. It took many steps, but i'm here. I'm not sure if anyone else can resonate with going through stages with other music and continually having your tastes become more and more refined.


Can it really become more refined than Classical music? I doubt it. Only between performances within Classical music I say!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Good God man that would not be difficult, after all your talking about opera


I would rather listen to harpsichord music over Neil Young, but not Neil Diamond.


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

If it doesn't bother you, then I don't think you should try to change your tastes. There is nothing wrong with liking classical music alone.


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## Reukeboom (Dec 3, 2011)

I went through the same thing in early 2009. I sold all of my non-classical CD's and haven't gone back, all-classical ever since. I could write an essay on the reasons why, but I'd rather not bore everybody. It's enough to say that popular music is more about creating a catchy element and repeating it as much and as loud as possible, it doesn't challenge the creator or the listener. Whatever it takes to have a good time quickly. Whatever. I've been happier with classical than I ever was with popular music.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I have the distinct feeling that most of the posts on this thread, note I said most, not all, are from, dare I say it, "the younger generation". I have no problem with that but I do recognise the dogma of the young raising its head! I remember discovering classical music when I was about 22 and thinking similar thoughts. There is no God but Wagner and thou shalt not worship at any other altar, until I discovered Mahler, then Richard Strauss, then...., need I go on? Then I remembered how much I loved Dylan, Joni, Coltrane, Coleman, Reed, Young, Waits and a myriad of other great and provocative artists. There is only music and enough room for it all to give meaning and joy to your soul. To paraphrase Spock - Live long and appreciate everything! :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> I have the distinct feeling that most of the posts on this thread, note I said most, not all, are from, dare I say it, "the younger generation". I have no problem with that but I do recognise the dogma of the young raising its head! I remember discovering classical music when I was about 22 and thinking similar thoughts. There is no God but Wagner and thou shalt not worship at any other altar, until I discovered Mahler, then Richard Strauss, then...., need I go on? Then I remembered how much I loved Dylan, Joni, Coltrane, Coleman, Reed, Young, Waits and a myriad of other great and provocative artists. There is only music and enough room for it all to give meaning and joy to your soul. To paraphrase Spock - Live long and appreciate everything! :lol:


We should all do what's right by ourselves. I'm 33, btw, and learned classical piano while growing up. I think it's been an inevitable resolution for me to primarily follow classical, all my ideas about music and performance sync up with how it's all done in the classical culture.

I really feel I've gone through stages, finding my way home to Classical music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

My musical heirarchy:
1. Classical (any era, but special emphasis on modern)
2. Jazz (avant garde and free only, hate conventional)
3. Blues (pre 70's)
4. Rock (psychedelic, folk, roots)
5. Alternative (noise like Sonic Youth; Pixies; hate anything since early 90's)
6. R&B/Soul (classic only especially Sly and Family Stone, Otis Redding; hate any R&B past early 70's, except maybe some Prince)
7. Classic country (Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline,etc. Hate post 70's country)
8. Old school rap (hate post '93 rap)

What's yours? Please don't say Classical only...


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

These days I pepper my Wagner obsession with some solo piano (Schumann, Beethoven, Ravel, Debussy, Chopin) and some Bruckner. But I always want to go back to Wagner - nothing else feels real for now. But I've felt that way about various other composers in the past.

More appropriate to the topic, it_has_ been quite a while since I got excited about non-classical music. Some folk and classic country I listen to in the car but that's about it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

1. I was intrigued by Michael Jackson around age 8, I was inspired by him certainly and attempted to dance like him. It wasn't a full on musical obsession, but it was the first time music clicked with me in a deeper way.

2. Around 6th grade, I found my sister's copy of "Crash" by the Dave Matthews Band and started listening to it quite a bit. Then my close friend showed me more music by the band and I fell in love. They were my first full on musical obsession, I loved how unique Dave's guitar riffs were and the overall groovy nature of the music. It stood out against what else was popular, and that is certainly something that gravitated me towards their music. I've always had a flavor for the unique! Dave Matthews Band was also one of the more complex bands in the mainstream, and that certainly was attractive.

I always had a strong distaste for their Violinist Boyd Tinsely who is just terrible in my opinion and I'm sure many on this board would agree with me. His solos lack depth, creativity, and diversity and it's quite terrible how much he squeaks. It's awful, but he is a very kind and gentle man, I've met him and Dave Matthews before and both were very down to earth.

3. When I entered college, I discovered Phish. It has always been quite a weird relationship I've had with Phish, I like a lot of the concepts they attempt to do, but feel they don't quite pull it off. Listening to Phish hurt my head, but I kept coming back because it was intriguing. Again, I was drawn to the uniqueness of the music. Phish also has some rock and roll compositions, which I now feel are mostly poor compositions with hints of greatness here and there. So I've always been drawn to composition in general. Phish is also more complex than Dave Matthews Band, so it was a step closer to the complex and moving nature found in classical music.

One thing I must say, I think the fact that Phish makes so many mistakes live during their actual song sections (they are a jamband if you are unfamiliar and do lots of improvisations, 10-30 minute extended jams of improv) makes them ineligible for the title they often receive as being the greatest live act of the 90s.

4. In college, while being obsessed with Phish, I also exposed myself to so much different music. Pink Floyd, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, Radiohead, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Nine Inch Nails, Beck, and many many more. I had to listen to everything and try to understand everything, and try to connect on a personal level with everything. But my main love was definitely Phish.

5. Then I got really into Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, who are super complex and extremely unique, and all virtuosos (no doubt). Bela Fleck is a banjoist who has single handedly brought the Banjo into the jazz and classical worlds. He just released a concerto for banjo for his son, and it is incredible. It's called Juno Concerto.

6. I still have a strong love for Bela Fleck, and have started digging heavily into Classical music. Throughout all these stages, I exposed myself to bits and pieces of classical music. Some reasons I didn't click with it faster is because none of my friends were into it, and as an aspiring piano composer, I wanted to focus on listening to music that was similar to what I was going to compose. Throughout college I was in bands, I was pursuing the Jamband scene, partially because I enjoyed it, but moreso, b/c I didn't think anyone would really appreciate my solo piano pieces.

Now that I have come to love my solo piano work and received more positive recognition from it than any band I've been in, I am ready to explore what has always been hiding underneath, classical music.


That's my story, I hope this isn't as long as it feels it has been! I think it's an interesting read though.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I typed all that out only to discover I misinterpreted what you were asking me to do. I gave you the history of the stages I went through to find my home in classical music.

I like to think I love everything in my collection equally. I love the few but top notch jazz albums I have, I love all my Rufus Wainwright albums (I have all the ones where he does original music on and he is the lead singer on at least some of it), and I love my classical albums. However, classical is really the only genre I want to continue to explore extensively. Perhaps that will change in the future, but I don't think it will.

I will most likely continue to collect Rufus' CDs as well. I have faith that he will continue to create albums I love all the way through. If he doesn't, then I'll skip one, but I doubt that will happen, he's so fantastic in my opinion.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It's weird - I have hundreds of rock albums which I used to devour in their entirety yet these days I skip tracks all over the place and not worry about it any more. But if I was ever to do that to a classical album I'd feel like I was committing some kind of sacrilege. 

Please tell me I'm not alone.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> It's weird - I have hundreds of rock albums which I used to devour in their entirety yet these days I skip tracks all over the place and not worry about it any more. But if I was ever to do that to a classical album I'd feel like I was committing some kind of sacrilege.
> 
> Please tell me I'm not alone.


I at least get it. I think you don't regard rock as precious as classical these days and have lost a bit of respect for it in that you don't hold it on the same pedestal you once did but continue to do with classical.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Phil loves classical said:


> My musical heirarchy:
> 6. R&B/Soul (classic only especially Sly and Family Stone, Otis Redding; hate any R&B past early 70's, except maybe some Prince)


Here is some killer R&B for ya:


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Even though I listen to some non-classical occasionally (Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Santana, to name a few), and prefer it to opera or Strauss waltzes, for example, it tends to make me lose interest fairly quickly these days and long for going back to my beloved symphonies of Beethoven or Sibelius, Bach's keyboard music or Mozart's piano concertos, to briefly name some of my favorite. I find that in the non-classical music I listen to I miss the abstract, musical thought that is so central to the classical music I love dearly. It can express so much more and in much deeper levels. I am affected both intellectually and emotionally to a much greater degree by it. Nothing wrong with blasting "Back in Black" in the car on the way to work, though.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Having been immersed mainly in classical music for nearly six decades (after I'd lost my childhood fascination with things like the flying purple people eater, the yellow polka dot bikini, and grandma's lye soap), I've never been very knowledgeable in, or impressed by, most other types of music, and find much popular music downright disagreeable (and possibly the more popular, the more disagreeable). But there are random exceptions (Joni Mitchell as a composer, Amalia Rodrigues as a fado singer) and one major exception: North Indian classical music for sitar, sarod, or surbahar, and tabla. The latter tradition, for me, stands worthily alongside Western classical music in its complexity and expressive richness, while being profoundly different from it as an improvisatory, rather than written, art. In that respect it's more akin to jazz, which seems, however, less goal-directed and transcendental, more hedonistic, and tends to try my patience as it rattles on and on.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Florestan said:


> Here is some killer R&B for ya:


Hey, that's great. Like the vocals


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Captain36 - Stick with classical music. It's REAL music, unlike the noise and entertainment that's passed of in the world of pop/rock. 

Keep this in mind - you may always - always always always - turn to pop/rock. It's always available. It's everywhere. In fact, it's hard to go anywhere with out hearing it.

Classical music is music in depth. Every time you listen to a piece, it reveals something new - something you didn't get before. You could spend your life listening to classical music and still never fully understand the music. That;s not just my own bit of puffery - nearly all great musicians and composers have said so. 

Put a piece aside for a while. Come back to it some time later - months, years, decades - and it suddenly reveals new aspects you'd never heard before - even if you knew the piece in your sleep, backwards and forwards.

By contrast, you don't even have to pay attention when rock's playing. Most folks don't. They just respond to the laughably simple thump thump rhythm, bobbing their heads like pigeons on the pavement. 

I am, 
Severius!


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

Neward Thelman said:


> Captain36 - Stick with music. It's REAL music, unlike the music that's passed of in the world of music.
> 
> Keep this in mind - you may always - always always always - turn to music. It's always available. It's everywhere. In fact, it's hard to go anywhere with out hearing it.
> 
> ...


I fixed a few words to make it realistic


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The reason I listen to classical music is because I like it. I've been listening to it since I was maybe four years old. I like lots and lots of other kinds of music also--different musics for different moods and mindsets. But I never find myself worrying or fretting whether what I'm listening to is good or bad or whether I'm worthy of it or whether it's worthy of me or whether I'm wasting my time and should be listening to something better. There are enough other things to worry about in the world.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> The reason I listen to classical music is because I like it. I've been listening to it since I was maybe four years old. I like lots and lots of other kinds of music also--different musics for different moods and mindsets. But I never find myself worrying or fretting whether what I'm listening to is good or bad or whether I'm worthy of it or whether it's worthy of me or whether I'm wasting my time and should be listening to something better. There are enough other things to worry about in the world.


You are blessed. Some of us tortured souls worry about everything. Or so they tell me.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Music to me is a reflection of your identity.
> But what you listen to does reflect something about you, no doubt.


This is what I have listened to in the past few days. What do you think my listening taste reflects about me?

Track Artist(s) Album

Vaughan Williams: The Lark Ascending, Nigel Kennedy, Simon Rattle,	British Music - Elgar, Vaughan Williams
Happy (Live), Rolling Stones, Love You Live [Disc 1]
Cilea: La Dolcissima Effigie, Aureliano Pertile (Tenor), The Record Of Singing: Vol.1-4 [Disc 7]
Leoncavallo: Buona Zazá (Zazá, Act II), Apollo Granforte (Baritone), The Record Of Singing: Vol.1-4 [Disc 7]
I'll Sing to You, Ralph Towner, My Foolish Heart
Picture 2, Jack DeJohnette & John Abercrombie, Pictures
Adagio for Strings, Op. 11 (Arr. for Choir Barber),	Rundfunkchor Berlin, Simple Gifts
Nunc Dimittis (from "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", Paul Phoenix and St Paul's Cathedral Choir,	Jubilate! Golden favourites from St. Paul's 
California Dreamin', Mamas & The Papas, The First Summer Of Love
Groovin', The Rascals, The First Summer Of Love
59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin' Groovy), Harpers Bizarre, The First Summer Of Love
Can't Find My Way Home, Joe Cocker	, The Life Of A Man - The Ultimate Hits 1968-2013
The Boss,  James Brown, Gold
Lady D'arbanville,	Cat Stevens, Cat Stevens Gold
Missing You, Alison Krauss, Soundtracks: Duets & Guest Appearances
Forever Autumn, Justin Hayward, Classic Blue
Baker Street, Gerry Rafferty, City To City
Tryin' To Get To Heaven, Lucinda Williams, Chimes of Freedom: The Songs of Bob Dylan 
Just Breathe, Eddie Vedder, Just Breathe
If I Fell, Reba McEntire, I'll Be
Schooling	, Aroah, The Last Laugh
The War Came Home Tonight, Roy Harper, Death Or Glory
Rose Of Cimarron, Poco, Gold
Bhairavi Bhatiyar With Ragmala, Ali Akbar Khan, Signature Series Vol. 2 - Three Ragas
Woodstock, Matthews Southern Comfort, The First Summer Of Love
The Rose (LP Version), Bette Midler, Experience The Divine
Emmylou, First Aid Kit, Emmylou
Song To The Siren, Robert Plant, Dreamland
It's Only Make Believe, Conway Twitty, Dreamboats And Petticoats 2
Singing The Blues, Tommy Steele & The Steelmen, Dreamboats And Petticoats 2
Well I Ask You, Eden Kane, Dreamboats And Petticoats 2
The Wanderer, Dion, Dreamboats And Petticoats 2
The John Dunbar Theme, John Barry, Dances With Wolves
It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, Joni Mitchell, The Complete Geffen Recordings
Threads And Steel, Son Volt, Notes Of Blue
Ritha, Larry Young, Into Somethin'
Julie La Belle, Larry Coryell, The Restful Mind
Die Meistersinger, Keilberth, Munich 1963
Das Rheingold, Solti, Covent Garden 1965
Schoenberg String Quartets, LaSalle Quartet, Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, Krenek
Nonetheless, Kenny Wheeler, Songs For Quintet
Jumbles, John Abercrombie Quartet, Up And Coming
Strauss (R): Winterweihe, Op. 48/4, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf; George Szell:, LSO	Four Last Songs, 12 Lieder
Strauss (R): Ruhe, Meine Seele, Op. 27/1, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf; George Szell:, LSO	Four Last Songs, 12 Lieder
Life Short Call Now, Bruce Cockburn, Life Short Call Now
Joy Will Find a Way (A Song About Dying), Bruce Cockburn, Joy Will Find A Way


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

The Wagner probably took longer than all the rest combined 

That selection also shows you have multiple personality disorder.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> This is what I have listened to in the past few days. What do you think my listening taste reflects about me?
> 
> Track Artist(s) Album
> 
> ...


Eclectic, surely! .


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

David OByrne said:


> I fixed a few words to make it realistic


You've replaced the words 'classical' and 'rock' in my post and you've made my post meaningless. On other sites, such interference would result in you being banned from the site.

You should make amends by editing your gratuitous post to put back my actual words.

And, just to be crystal clear where I stand on the issue - pop/rock [and I use that term to cover all of so-called popular music - from cowntry to whatever metal to disco to cRap - all of it] is mostly garbage. Simpleton garbage. If people had the ability to hear harmonically, they'd immediately understand why it's garbage. But, most humans just don't. So, the I IV V chord progression [over and over] called pop/rock continues to churn out its thumping drivel, year after year; decade after decade.

I'll start a thread in which I'll spell out all of the problems with popular music very simply and thereby explain and establish why it can't be taken seriously and why anyone [I, for example] would call it garbage. I'm not trying to be mean or nasty. I'm stating facts.

Rock on,
Severius!


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> The Wagner probably took longer than all the rest combined
> 
> That selection also shows you have multiple personality disorder.


Hilarious!

[15 letters needed to post]

Severius!


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> You've replaced the words 'classical' and 'rock' in my post and you've made my post meaningless. On other sites, such interference would result in you being banned from the site.
> 
> You should make amends by editing your gratuitous post to put back my actual words.
> 
> ...


Is music appreciation only about the chords and notes?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Barbebleu, a suffocatingly constricted program! If you had only added some cante flamenco, some West African pop, and some Gharnati, there might be some hope for you :lol:.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> You've replaced the words 'classical' and 'rock' in my post and you've made my post meaningless. On other sites, such interference would result in you being banned from the site.
> 
> You should make amends by editing your gratuitous post to put back my actual words.
> 
> ...


I agree, but I also like the notion of live and let live.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Live and let live?? What kind of nonsense is that? Several dozen of the musical issues of utmost importance are subsumed within the list of musics that Herr Thelman dislikes and that others would be wise to dislike. I hope he likes New Order!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

As I was getting into on one of my melody/harmony vs. Rhythm posts, complexity in music is relative. In Modern classical you can modulate, harmonize any 12-tone melody by getting into the 9th chords multiple ways. If you get more tones than 12, then you need to go to higher harmonics, there is no limit. As mathisdermaler earlier put it, Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica is one of the most rhythmically complex pieces if music on the planet, but you can get more complex, that a totally random rhythm (is there such a thing) can be put into meters, time signatures, etc. Basically a computer could end up recognizing more harmonies and rhythms than a human can, but is a computer more capable of appreciating music than us lowly humans?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> Barbebleu, a suffocatingly constricted program! If you had only added some cante flamenco, some West African pop, and some Gharnati, there might be some hope for you :lol:.


That will be next week!:lol:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> Live and let live?? What kind of nonsense is that? Several dozen of the musical issues of utmost importance are subsumed within the list of musics that Herr Thelman dislikes and that others would be wise to dislike. I hope he likes New Order!


Now, I know you are kidding, but will anyone else?:lol:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Phil loves classical said:


> As I was getting into on one of my melody/harmony vs. Rhythm posts, complexity in music is relative. In Modern classical you can modulate, harmonize any 12-tone melody by getting into the 9th chords multiple ways. If you get more tones than 12, then you need to go to higher harmonics, there is no limit. As mathisdermaler earlier put it, Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica is one of the most rhythmically complex pieces if music on the planet, but you can get more complex, that a totally random rhythm (is there such a thing) can be put into meters, time signatures, etc. Basically a computer could end up recognizing more harmonies and rhythms than a human can, but is a computer more capable of appreciating music than us lowly humans?


In answer to your final question, not a snowball's chance!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Eclectic, surely! .


Thank you Cap. There's not much out there that I don't like. Possibly some baroque (but I like Rameau, Couperin, Handel, et al), but that's about it. A day without music is a day wasted and there is so much wonderful stuff out there. What's not to like?


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## Ziggabea (Apr 5, 2017)




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## Dharma66 (Apr 4, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> You've replaced the words 'classical' and 'rock' in my post and you've made my post meaningless. On other sites, such interference would result in you being banned from the site.
> 
> You should make amends by editing your gratuitous post to put back my actual words.
> 
> ...


Weird how you feel that everyone world call it rubbish, when in fact virtually everyone pays good money for it.

I don't deny its unsophisticated in the large part, but I'm not sure that can be the only criteria by which it is judged.

Frankly, I mind most most sophisticated classical music to be rubbish, leaving me cold and unmoved, whereas an extremely simplistic Led Zeppelin track, for example, can move me greatly.

I'm interested in why your emotional response is more valid than mine?


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> And, just to be crystal clear where I stand on the issue - pop/rock [and I use that term to cover all of so-called popular music - from cowntry to whatever metal to disco to cRap - all of it] is mostly garbage. Simpleton garbage. If people had the ability to hear harmonically, they'd immediately understand why it's garbage.


One could equally (and equally misguidedly) say that if people had the ability to hear timbrally, or rhythmically, they'd write off all classical music as simpleton garbage.



Neward Thelman said:


> But, most humans just don't. So, the I IV V chord progression [over and over] called pop/rock continues to churn out its thumping drivel, year after year; decade after decade.


There are plenty of subgenres of rock and pop in which you'd be very unlikely to hear I IV V.



Neward Thelman said:


> I'll start a thread in which I'll spell out all of the problems with popular music very simply and thereby explain and establish why it can't be taken seriously and why anyone [I, for example] would call it garbage.


If you can come up with any judgments of aesthetic value that aren't 100% subjective, I'll be impressed!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Ziggabea said:


>


True, I'm just not interested in them, at least for now.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

It's quite interesting, I would never buy a rock or pop CD without listening to it first. For the most part, I feel confident in buying blindly works by most composers.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It's quite interesting, I would never buy a rock or pop CD without listening to it first. For the most part, I feel confident in buying blindly works by most composers.


I would never buy a rock or pop CD. (There, my version is much easier.)


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It's quite interesting, I would never buy a rock or pop CD without listening to it first. For the most part, I feel confident in buying blindly works by most composers.


I wouldn't buy Classical either without listening first to particular versions. Sometimes it becomes a matter of liking a piece or hating it depending on the interpretation.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I wouldn't buy Classical either without listening first to particular versions. Sometimes it becomes a matter of liking a piece or hating it depending on the interpretation.


I know. It's just bound to be at least very good imo with classical.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


..............................


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> ..............................
> 
> View attachment 93487


Sorry! But I must be true to myself. Not everyone is about being eclectic!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Sorry! But I must be true to myself. Not everyone is about being eclectic!


No problem... just kidding


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2017)

Maybe this does help to find your true feelings in more than one respect.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Traverso said:


> Maybe this does help to find your true feelings in more than one respect.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I know. It's just bound to be at least very good imo with classical.


Now you've got me perplexed. Are you saying that it's not possible for some classical music to to be nonsense? Because I could point you in the direction of some right old rubbish! I think if you have liked everything you've heard so far then you have been extremely fortunate.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> Now you've got me perplexed. Are you saying that it's not possible for some classical music to to be nonsense? Because I could point you in the direction of some right old rubbish! I think if you have liked everything you've heard so far then you have been extremely fortunate.


There's just a larger percentage of quality, in my experience, of good quality classical recordings. I'm not sure I'd call any professional classical performer rubbish, I may not prefer it, but highly doubt I'd call it rubbish.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Traverso said:


> Maybe this does help to find your true feelings in more than one respect.


That make me want to:


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2017)

Florestan said:


> That make me want to:


The real dangers are lying in the hidden dark corners in ourself Florestan !


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Florestan said:


> That make me want to:


 This!! :lol::lol::lol: 
It's hilariously perfect, Florestan, but you should have posted a warning, not to click that link while eating or drinking .... I nearly choked! :lol:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Your title of this topic makes me NOT want to read what's on your mind, but I did...I'm a true believer that there is really good music being made today, in all styles. It's a very diverse world we live in, and it's beautiful, despite all...


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> ...I'm a true believer that there is really good music being made today, in all styles. It's a very diverse world we live in, and it's beautiful, despite all...


This sums it up, perfectly & simply. 
I noticed elsewhere on the site, that it's a special day for you today ~ Happy Birthday!
(but you know, _some_ people on this thread would be_ horrified _by the "rubbish" music that you are celebrating with!) :lol:

Enjoy! :cheers:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

HEY! I'm celebrating with over 40 year old Funkadelic! BUT Jamiroquay just released a fab & funky album! I've listened to a lot of contemporary classical & SATYRICON, so I needed something else. I'm addicted to music  ...and I'm a smart guy! Got a Master of Music degree!


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> HEY! I'm celebrating with over 40 year old Funkadelic! BUT Jamiroquay just released a fab & funky album! I've listened to a lot of contemporary classical & SATYRICON, so I needed something else. I'm addicted to music  ...and I'm a smart guy! Got a Master of Music degree!


:lol: But haven't you heard? Truly smart people listen to Classical music _only!_ :lol:
I like lots of different kinds of music, too; & still discovering new things all the time ..... but I've never really listened to any Funkadelic stuff. Maybe I should try that, too?! (Although I have to say, that Maggot Brain album cover creeps me out!)


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Funkadelic is a good compromise when my wife loves 60's music and I love the other t's. They are pretty modern for early 70's  By the way, a variety and openness to different music is the only sane thing...


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Funkadelic is a good compromise when my wife loves 60's music and I love the other t's. They are pretty modern for early 70's*  By the way, a variety and openness to different music is the only sane thing...*




^^^ This! I couldn't agree more :cheers:.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> HEY! I'm celebrating with over 40 year old Funkadelic! BUT Jamiroquay just released a fab & funky album! I've listened to a lot of contemporary classical & SATYRICON, so I needed something else. I'm addicted to music  ...and I'm a smart guy! Got a Master of Music degree!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I don't look down on anyone for what they choose to listen to. I can listen to pretty much anything, but my main preference is classical music if I'm picking.

I'm a social worker, I'm all about empowering people! .


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> I read somewhere they found the louder they record the music, the more records they sell. As they said, and I ran some recordings through a digital processor and fiund it was true, the levels are turned up so high there is actually some clipping, where the loud parts are distorted.


Yes, I've noticed that in pop music today, especially singing, there are no dynamics - everything is belted out at one level.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

NorthernHarrier said:


> Yes, I've notice that in pop music today, especially singing, there are no dynamics - everything is belted out at one level.


Oh no doubt! That is one thing that certainly sets classical apart is dynamics. It is also the area I feel I need to improve in in my own compositions, I've been too influenced by the likes of rock, even prog rock lacks good dynamics.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

There is no doubt that classical music is quite arguably the most sophisticated and intellectual music around, however. But listening to it doesn't make you smarter or anything, it's just that those who truly love it tend to be more sophisticated and classy.

Other music to me, besides a few essential jazz records and singer/songwriter Rufus Wainwright (who is considered very sophisticated, he even wrote an opera and will release his second soon), just doesn't quite do it for me on the same level. If I'm in a car with someone playing Brittaney Spears, I can listen to it, but it's certainly not my preference.

For those that listen to classical and rock or pop, more power to you. While I wouldn't personally judge, however, if you are blasting pink floyd in your car, others will think you use drugs, most likely, b/c it comes with that scene. Not that this is a problem, who cares what others think, but, it is true, you will be judged by most.


I empower anyone that listens to something they genuinely enjoy, for that is what it's all about. But my statements above cannot be denied.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm not trying to look smart, certainly, for Jazz is considered very sophisticated and intellectual as well, but I note that it doesn't do it for me on the same level as Classical aside from a few essentials:

Herbie Hancock: Thurst; Head Hunters
Miles: Kind of Blue
Coltrane: Blue Train
Bela Fleck and Chick Corea: The Enchantment 
Jeff Beck: Blow by Blow
John Scofield: Country for Old Men
Bela Fleck and the Flecktones: Rocket Science; UFO TOFU


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> There is no doubt that classical music is quite arguably the most sophisticated and intellectual music around, however. But listening to it doesn't make you smarter or anything, it's just that those who truly love it tend to be more sophisticated and classy.
> 
> Other music to me, besides a few essential jazz records and singer/songwriter Rufus Wainwright (who is considered very sophisticated, he even wrote an opera and will release his second soon), just doesn't quite do it for me on the same level. If I'm in a car with someone playing Brittaney Spears, I can listen to it, but it's certainly not my preference.
> 
> ...


Yes, there is no doubt classical is one of the most sophisticated and intellectual. I would still say a small % of jazz is more sophisticated and intellectually challenging than most of classical. And nothing is more heartfelt than classic blues.

A lot of psychedelic music is actually very brilliant and complex like the Beatles' Strawberry Fields, Love's Forever Changes, Red Krayola's Parable of Arable Land. Can't speak for prog rock, not my thing.

P.s. For those that think there are only a few predictable chord progressions in rock/pop, Love's Forever Changes will change that view.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yes, there is no doubt classical is one of the most sophisticated and intellectual. I would still say a small % of jazz is more sophisticated and intellectually challenging than most of classical. And nothing is more heartfelt than classic blues.
> 
> A lot of psychedelic music is actually very brilliant and complex like the Beatles' Strawberry Fields, Love's Forever Changes, Red Krayola's Parable of Arable Land. Can't speak for prog rock, not my thing.
> 
> P.s. For those that think there are only a few predictable chord progressions in rock/pop, Love's Forever Changes will change that view.


No arguments here, Strawberry Filed may be intricate for a rock song, but not nearly as intricate as perhaps any classical piece nor not nearly as classy.

Blues is certainly heartfelt, but not truly sophisticated nor intricate nor classy.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This is perhaps the most sophisticated bluegrass album I've heard! Excellent, and mostly all instrumental!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> No arguments here, Strawberry Filed may be intricate for a rock song, but not nearly as intricate as perhaps any classical piece nor not nearly as classy.
> 
> Blues is certainly heartfelt, but not truly sophisticated nor intricate nor classy.


No way, Strawberry Fields works on multiple levels, and is as intricate as a lot of classical, and more than some. Every beat and sound is immaculate.

Here is one of the better songs by Love. You may not like the hippiness, but on strict musical terms it is up there:






If you count the chord changes, there are at least 12, and they are not conventional.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> No way, Strawberry Fields works on multiple levels, and is as intricate as a lot of classical, and more than some. Every beat and sound is immaculate.
> 
> Here is one of the better songs by Love. You may not like the hippiness, but on strict musical terms it is up there:


I listened to the first 2:33 of it, it's nice, but not really to my taste.

You can argue the intricacy of Strawberry Fields, but it's certainly not very classy imo.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

If this band was still around, I'd be into them:


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

'Real music' is the music you enjoy, played at the right time to connect with your emotions. Whether that's Beethoven, Baccara or the Beastie Boys is unimportant. Music is an emotional, personal experience. It shouldn't be devalued because of genre.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Merl said:


> 'Real music' is the music you enjoy, played at the right time to connect with your emotions. Whether that's Beethoven, Baccara or the Beastie Boys is unimportant. Music is an emotional, personal experience. It shouldn't be devalued because of genre.


Yes! Definitely.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I listened to the first 2:33 of it, it's nice, but not really to my taste.
> 
> You can argue the intricacy of Strawberry Fields, but it's certainly not very classy imo.


The problem with the word "classy" I have is it doesn't describe any real objective quality. Beethoven and many composers were not classy, and neither is some of their best music. The Appassionata is one of the most turbulent pieces of music, and is not classy as baroque music, while more real in emotion than almost all. Classiness means the same as superficial to me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> The problem with the word "classy" I have is it doesn't describe any real objective quality. Beethoven and many composers were not classy, and neither is some of their best music. The Appassionata is one of the most turbulent pieces of music, and is not classy as baroque music, while more real in emotion than almost all. Classiness means the same as superficial to me.


So we have different ideas on what is classy. No problem! Listen to what you like, and i'll do the same.

Cheers!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> If this band was still around, I'd be into them:


Now I do really like this Pentagle group. I have a thing for Folk music. They are similar to Fairport Convention.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

this number always puts a smile on my dial -when complex prog meets sarcastic country & western !


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> There is no doubt that classical music is quite arguably the most sophisticated and intellectual music around, however. But listening to it doesn't make you smarter or anything, it's just that those who truly love it tend to be more sophisticated and classy.
> 
> Other music to me, besides a few essential jazz records and singer/songwriter Rufus Wainwright (who is considered very sophisticated, he even wrote an opera and will release his second soon), just doesn't quite do it for me on the same level. If I'm in a car with someone playing Brittaney Spears, I can listen to it, but it's certainly not my preference.
> 
> For those that listen to classical and rock or pop, more power to you. While I wouldn't personally judge, however, if you are blasting pink floyd in your car, others will think you use drugs, most likely, b/c it comes with that scene. Not that this is a problem, who cares what others think, but, it is true, you will be judged by most.


Following what's socially acceptable is a perfectly legitimate way to choose what music you listen to, and insofar as we're all social creatures, we all do it. But it's a rather limiting behaviour in some ways, and certainly not a very 'intellectual' one.

Once you really start to learn about music, you learn the family bonds between plainchant, classical orchestral pieces, folk tunes, country, blues, African music, jazz... you see it as one big family tree (and not just a tree... a network that has influences that merge, split, and recombine again). You may _like _some of it more, sure, but you see lines that _connect _the genres... the lines that _divide _them fade away and become meaningless.

If I hear someone say "I like this type of music, but not other types..." - I tend to think that person hasn't _really _got into music properly yet.

Classical music is so broad that to say you basically like music that falls under that label and don't like most music that falls outside it makes it extremely likely that you're drawing a somewhat 'artificial' boundary that's liable to limit your enjoyment of music.

Of course, if that works for you, that's fine. But is it possible that this thread is something of a cry for help?



Captainnumber36 said:


> I empower anyone that listens to something they genuinely enjoy, for that is what it's all about. But....


No 'Buts'. That's what it's all about, period.


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Now I do really like this Pentagle group. I have a thing for Folk music. They are similar to Fairport Convention.


Pentangle was definitely one of the most talented folk-rock groups.

I agree with the comments about the sophistication of some psychedelic groups. For example, I've always been impressed by songs such as "Incense and Peppermints" (Strawberry Alarm Clock). In its early albums, Jefferson Airplane also had some very "classical" musical ideas sprinkled into its songs (for example, the opening bass line in "White Rabbit").

Ray Charles used to tell a story about the days when he and Quincy Jones were playing Bar Mitzvahs and other small gigs to pay the rent. Charles complained to Quincy that the music required for such jobs didn't inspire him. Jones responded: "Ray, every kind of music has its own soul."


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> Following what's socially acceptable is a perfectly legitimate way to choose what music you listen to, and insofar as we're all social creatures, we all do it. But it's a rather limiting behaviour in some ways, and certainly not a very 'intellectual' one.
> 
> Once you really start to learn about music, you learn the family bonds between plainchant, classical orchestral pieces, folk tunes, country, blues, African music, jazz... you see it as one big family tree (and not just a tree... a network that has influences that merge, split, and recombine again). You may _like _some of it more, sure, but you see lines that _connect _the genres... the lines that _divide _them fade away and become meaningless.
> 
> ...


I'm really just not too interested in much besides classical.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

As a aspiring artist, I like that I am knowledgeable about lots of different music, and will continue to expose myself to other music for that reason. But that doesn't mean I like it all equally.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm really just not too interested in much besides classical.


Sure... and no problem! Presumably you started this thread to get people's reaction though, and my honest reaction is that it's strange that your tastes would include almost all of the enormously diverse range of musics that come under the 'classical' label, but almost none of the enormously diverse range of musics that don't (especially given that some classical genres have a lot in common with some non-classical genres).

To me, it's a bit like someone who claimed to be into international travel saying "I like almost all countries in the Northern Hemisphere, but in the Southern Hemisphere I only like Paraguay and Fiji". It's a perfectly fair enough opinion if it's genuine, but still a bit curious to hear...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> Sure... and no problem! Presumably you started this thread to get people's reaction though, and my honest reaction is that it's strange that your tastes would include almost all of the enormously diverse range of musics that come under the 'classical' label, but almost none of the enormously diverse range of musics that don't (especially given that some classical genres have a lot in common with some non-classical genres).
> 
> To me, it's a bit like someone who claimed to be into international travel saying "I like almost all countries in the Northern Hemisphere, but in the Southern Hemisphere I only like Paraguay and Fiji". It's a perfectly fair enough opinion if it's genuine, but still a bit curious to hear...


It's genuine. Like I said most music is at least listenable, but what moves me the most is classical. It's where I'm at right now with music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

NorthernHarrier said:


> Pentangle was definitely one of the most talented folk-rock groups.
> 
> I agree with the comments about the sophistication of some psychedelic groups. For example, I've always been impressed by songs such as "Incense and Peppermints" (Strawberry Alarm Clock). In its early albums, Jefferson Airplane also had some very "classical" musical ideas sprinkled into its songs (for example, the opening bass line in "White Rabbit").
> 
> Ray Charles used to tell a story about the days when he and Quincy Jones were playing Bar Mitzvahs and other small gigs to pay the rent. Charles complained to Quincy that the music required for such jobs didn't inspire him. Jones responded: "Ray, every kind of music has its own soul."


Yeah, I was gonna say Jefferson Airplane too. What Topo Morto said is very reasonable. The Beatles were influenced by Stockhausen, and as I keep beating to death Strawberry Fields and a few other songs used his techniques, and George Martin was a classically trained composer and musician even before the Beatles.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

For anyone interested, Rufus Wainwright released an album last year where he put music to Shakespeare's Sonnets. It's great!

https://www.amazon.com/Take-All-My-Loves-Shakespeare/dp/B01CUV13OS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491836639&sr=8-1&keywords=rufus+shakespeare


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

topo morto said:


> If I hear someone say "I like this type of music, but not other types..." - I tend to think that person hasn't _really _got into music properly yet.


Technically, I suppose this is Captainnumber36's thread, but since it is open to the general membership, I feel permitted to reply.

The portion of the statement quoted seems to suggest that one cannot apply personal judgment to music and that it is somehow an all or nothing thing deal, at least if the listener has "_really_ got into music properly" (whatever that means). Are you really saying that if I like Beethoven I have no choice but also to like Justin Bieber?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yeah, I was gonna say Jefferson Airplane too. What Topo Morto said is very reasonable. The Beatles were influenced by Stockhausen, and as I keep beating to death Strawberry Fields and a few other songs used his techniques, and George Martin was a classically trained composer and musician even before the Beatles.


Ya, Martin wrote all the orchestral arrangements on Yellow Submarine.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

JAS said:


> Technically, I suppose this is Captainnumber36's thread, but since it is open to the general membership, I feel permitted to reply.
> 
> The portion of the statement quoted seems to suggest that one cannot apply personal judgment to music and that it is somehow an all or nothing thing deal, at least if the listener has "_really_ got into music properly" (whatever that means). Are you really saying that if I like Beethoven I have no choice but also to like Justin Bieber?


That's true. Partially, and it's certainly the much lower percentage of the total, I am judging the cultures of other music, but it's mostly what I care to listen to as well.

And it's a fair point to ask why a person can't make this judgement.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> Sure... and no problem! Presumably you started this thread to get people's reaction though, and my honest reaction is that it's strange that your tastes would include almost all of the enormously diverse range of musics that come under the 'classical' label, but almost none of the enormously diverse range of musics that don't (especially given that some classical genres have a lot in common with some non-classical genres).
> 
> To me, it's a bit like someone who claimed to be into international travel saying "I like almost all countries in the Northern Hemisphere, but in the Southern Hemisphere I only like Paraguay and Fiji". It's a perfectly fair enough opinion if it's genuine, but still a bit curious to hear...


I did say I love Rufus Wainwright because of his clear influence by Classical music.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

JAS said:


> The portion of the statement quoted seems to suggest that one cannot apply personal judgment to music and that it is somehow an all or nothing thing deal, at least if the listener has "_really_ got into music properly" (whatever that means).


You're right - it's a loose statement - just my personal feeling, based on how my own picture of the 'musical universe' has evolved, and also based on the thoughts of other musicians whose thoughts I've heard or read - I rarely hear anyone who I see as accomplished or creative write off a whole branch of musical creativity. Maybe they're just too polite to do so!



JAS said:


> Are you really saying that if I like Beethoven I have no choice but also to like Justin Bieber?


My statement was about types of music, rather that individual artists... again a loose statement, as 'types' can be quite general or rather specific, and of course the further down the levels of granularity you go, the more sense it makes to draw a line around something and say 'I don't like this'. Beethoven|Justin Bieber is a long way away from the level of the 'classical|non-classical' distinction under discussion, though!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Beiber is so far removed from Beethoven, that the closest thing they share is the first letter to their surname. What is more applicable is some people that like the Stones or Zeppelin, but don't like the blues, or like Gershwin but not Ellington, or again Stockhausen but not the experimental Beatles (I'll never let that one go!). It's not a straight comparison, and other factors come in, but there is some truth to what Topo was saying, I believe.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> What is more applicable is some people that like the Stones or Zeppelin, but don't like the blues, or like Gershwin but not Ellington, or again Stockhausen but not the experimental Beatles (I'll never let that one go!).


Yes, you're clarifying my thoughts better than I am  As you say, there's a proximity between the Stones and the blues, and a proximity between Gershwin and Ellington. And there is, pretty much by definition, a proximity between classical and non-classical. So it would be interesting to know what's 'significant' about that line such that someone would like stuff on one side but not the other.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Beiber is so far removed from Beethoven, that the closest thing they share is the first letter to their surname. What is more applicable is some people that like the Stones or Zeppelin, but don't like the blues, or like Gershwin but not Ellington, or again Stockhausen but not the experimental Beatles (I'll never let that one go!). It's not a straight comparison, and other factors come in, but there is some truth to what Topo was saying, I believe.


Just because you like a certain artist, doesn't mean you'll love their influences. The minute, or sometimes great differences can do a lot.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Beiber is so far removed from Beethoven, that the closest thing they share is the first letter to their surname. What is more applicable is some people that like the Stones or Zeppelin, but don't like the blues, or like Gershwin but not Ellington, or again Stockhausen but not the experimental Beatles (I'll never let that one go!). It's not a straight comparison, and other factors come in, but there is some truth to what Topo was saying, I believe.


Admitting that an opinion is just an opinion, I would argue that exact opposite of the statement made:



topo morto said:


> If I hear someone say "I like this type of music, but not other types..." - I tend to think that person hasn't _really _got into music properly yet.


Indeed, I would say that only the most superficial interest in music would allow one to treat all forms equally. Even the very idea of music becomes problematic in such an open view, with essentially any kind of sound necessarily qualifying. (And let's not get into something like 4'33, which is not itself sound, although it would still be sound if we accept the idea that it includes the sounds of listeners scuffling feet, crickets in the background, tape hiss, etc.) Some might even go so far as to say that sound itself isn't necessary, as it excludes those with profound hearing loss from a musical experience --- which might actually be an interesting debate. (Sounds are basically vibrations, so perhaps there is a loophole, although it would certainly be a very different experience than generally embodied by hearing.)

Types of music are just convenient labels applied to groups of music that share some or all of certain characteristics, not always well or strictly defined. If I take the statement made at that level, then it still argues that if I like Baroque music, I must also like minimalism, and if I like minimalism, I must like heavy metal, which I also think is fundamentally untrue.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Just because you like a certain artist, doesn't mean you'll love their influences. The minute, or sometimes great differences can do a lot.


true, and in general, just because you like an artist doesn't mean you'll like artists who are in some (or even many) respects similar. However, the thing that would be noteworthy about liking "classical" almost 100% and not liking "non-classical" almost 100% is that it means that your boundaries of preference - "I like this, but I don't like this similar thing" - are consistently, across many 'minimal pairs' of genres, following that long classical/non-classical boundary, which straddles the whole musical space, and is in some places fairly arbitrary.

So, unless the person is just "being snobby" about things being labelled as classical (which it doesn't seem you are), it invites the question - what's the real, qualitative difference between what's on one side of that boundary, and what's on the other side?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> true, and in general, just because you like an artist doesn't mean you'll like artists who are in some (or even many) respects similar. However, the thing that would be noteworthy about liking "classical" almost 100% and not liking "non-classical" almost 100% is that it means that your boundaries of preference - "I like this, but I don't like this similar thing" - are consistently, across many 'minimal pairs' of genres, following that long classical/non-classical boundary, which straddles the whole musical space, and is in some places fairly arbitrary.
> 
> So, unless the person is just "being snobby" about things being labelled as classical (which it doesn't seem you are), it invites the question - what's the real, qualitative difference between what's on one side of that boundary, and what's on the other side?


For one, I just really like the instruments and the way they sound in classical music. I like the heavy use of dynamics in classical that is often lost in other forms of music. Jazz is the next genre that comes close, but I don't love it as much. There are the few notable albums I love, but as a whole, the genre doesn't do as much for me.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

JAS said:


> Indeed, I would say that only the most superficial interest in music would allow one to treat all forms equally.


Treating all forms equally would be very unusual too. What's much more common among people with a lot of listening experience is to have a complex, gradated, nuanced set of preferences - which may somewhat correlate with arbitrary genre boundaries, but rarely as exactly as the OP seems to be experiencing.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> Treating all forms equally would be very unusual too. What's much more common among people with a lot of listening experience is to have a complex, gradated, nuanced set of preferences - which may somewhat correlate with arbitrary genre boundaries, but rarely as exactly as the OP seems to be experiencing.


I like the exactness of my preferences. It makes it easier for me, and I need that.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

I've been looking at the title of this thread for several days and thinking you meant all of music, even classical. I thought "how negative!" and avoided it. Now I know what you mean. :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

shangoyal said:


> I've been looking at the title of this thread for several days and thinking you meant all of music, even classical. I thought "how negative!" and avoided it. Now I know what you mean. :lol:


:lol::lol::


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> For one, I just really like the instruments and the way they sound in classical music. I like the heavy use of dynamics in classical that is often lost in other forms of music. Jazz is the next genre that comes close, but I don't love it as much. There are the few notable albums I love, but as a whole, the genre doesn't do as much for me.


Definitely a fair point! Does anything else spring to mind, or do you think that's the main factor?



Captainnumber36 said:


> I like the exactness of my preferences. It makes it easier for me, and I need that.


Probably the most efficient approach!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

JAS said:


> ...If I take the statement made at that level, then it still argues that if I like Baroque music, I must also like minimalism, and if I like minimalism, I must like heavy metal, which I also think is fundamentally untrue.


You make a good point, and I think it actually supports what Topo is saying. Minimalism can be more similar or related to New Age or electronic/trance than to Baroque. Avant garde modern classical is more similar to avant garde Jazz than Renaissance. To say you like classical in all of its forms but put a dividing line between some styles actually more similar than one era within Classical Music to another is what we are getting at.

There are many different types of Classical and Classical fans. To say you're a fan of ALL Classical but not ANY non-Classical is like Topo, putting an imaginary line.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> You make a good point, and I think it actually supports what Topo is saying. Minimalism can be more similar or related to New Age or electronic/trance than to Baroque. Avant garde modern classical is more similar to avant garde Jazz than Renaissance. To say you like classical in all of its forms but put a dividing line between some styles actually more similar than one era within Classical Music to another is what we are getting at.
> 
> There are many different types of Classical and Classical fans. To say you're a fan of ALL Classical but not ANY non-Classical is like Topo, putting an imaginary line.


I made a thread recently about Rachmaninov and Liszt. I wasn't attracted to a some of their work, hearing it as too technical and not enough substance. But, some in the thread showed me some works that I really liked! I'm still thinking they are, as a whole, too technically based with some greatness in there if you dig.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also don't think I like a lot of Gershwin. But, there are some piano pieces I really enjoy here and there, but don't know by name atm.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I also don't think I like a lot of Gershwin. But, there are some piano pieces I really enjoy here and there, but don't know by name atm.


No problem Capt'n. You must feel we are slicing you up and dissecting your musical taste, but we're not :lol:


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> You make a good point, and I think it actually supports what Topo is saying. Minimalism can be more similar or related to New Age or electronic/trance than to Baroque. Avant garde modern classical is more similar to avant garde Jazz than Renaissance. To say you like classical in all of its forms but put a dividing line between some styles actually more similar than one era within Classical Music to another is what we are getting at.


Exactly - I've been listening to some John Adams today that wouldn't raise an eyebrow if you put it in the 'techno' section of a record shop.

The point about dynamics is an interesting one. 'Non-art' music does tend to be written such that a piece performs a particular function - 'this is a piece to relax to', 'this is a dance', and so on. Having said that, there's plenty of 'functional' classical music that has that same restriction.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

How similar is this piece of classical music to Baroque or Mozart? It is probably more similar to production in rap music!


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> You make a good point, and I think it actually supports what Topo is saying. Minimalism can be more similar or related to New Age or electronic/trance than to Baroque. Avant garde modern classical is more similar to avant garde Jazz than Renaissance. To say you like classical in all of its forms but put a dividing line between some styles actually more similar than one era within Classical Music to another is what we are getting at.
> 
> There are many different types of Classical and Classical fans. To say you're a fan of ALL Classical but not ANY non-Classical is like Topo, putting an imaginary line.


Here, I think we are wandering into the inherent vagaries of language once again. In common usage, one might certainly say "I like classical music and I do not like rock music," without any concern about being seriously misunderstood. I absolutely have made this statement on more than one occasion, and fully intend to make it again in a suitable context.

If the response provided to such a statement was the question "do you like classical music _in all its forms_?" the answer would be, in my case, "no, not _in all its forms_," and I would then be forced into pedant mode if the point were to be pursued further.

Now, I will agree that certain categories of what is broadly defined as classical music (accepted for the lack of a more suitable term, and not taken as being music of the classical era) have equivalents in what would normally be considered non-classical music. The combinations that you mention certainly seem similar enough to me that they would qualify, although I don't happen to like any of them personally, so I am not forced to evaluate them more closely.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> How similar is this piece of classical music to Baroque or Mozart? It is probably more similar to production in rap music!


I was always a bit miffed by the wording in http://deutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=212 - "The Speech-to-Song Illusion was discovered by Deutsch in 1995" - when Reich had obviously been exploring it many years earlier!


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

JAS said:


> Here, I think we are wandering into the inherent vagaries of language once again. In common usage, one might certainly say "I like classical music and I do not like rock music," without any concern about being seriously misunderstood. I absolutely have made this statement on more than one occasion, and fully intend to make it again in a suitable context.


Agreed - that's just "how people speak". I have, on occasions, been reckless enough to say that I "don't like opera"!

I had thought that the OP was himself making a stronger point: that he genuinely found a strong and consistent falloff along the 
classical / non-classical border, and was himself a little surprised at the revelation. Perhaps I read too much into it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> How similar is this piece of classical music to Baroque or Mozart? It is probably more similar to production in rap music!


I dislike this, very much. I thought the video was broken at first, then I realized it's just how the music is.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> Agreed - that's just "how people speak". I have, on occasions, been reckless enough to say that I "don't like opera"!
> 
> I had thought that the OP was himself making a stronger point: that he genuinely found a strong and consistent falloff along the
> classical / non-classical border, and was himself a little surprised at the revelation. Perhaps I read too much into it.


That would be accurate. But maybe you did read too much into it. Perhaps you are debating your own preferences against my recent conclusions and are trying to understand more clearly where I am coming from.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I dislike this, very much. I thought the video was broken at first, then I realized it's just how the music is.


You may rest assured that you are not alone . . .


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> No problem Capt'n. You must feel we are slicing you up and dissecting your musical taste, but we're not :lol:


You are, but it's good for me. Therapeutic!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Really I think all music is ok and listenable, rap is my least favorite for sure because it lacks a lot of melody and that's my favorite part about music, but what I get from classical and a few other albums/artists I've mentioned throughout this thread is no match. I think it's ok to limit yourself in what you devote your time too.

I feel as music aficionados, we sometimes try to be open to too much and forget what is more personal to us. That is something I think non music aficionados are really good at doing.

I'll be open if something in rock/pop moves me as much as Rufus Wainwright does, but until then, I'm content just browsing classical and checking out the billboard top hits and recommendations from others on the side to keep my knowledge up to date.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Really I think all music is ok and listenable, rap is my least favorite for sure because it lacks a lot of melody and that's my favorite part about music, but what I get from classical and a few other albums/artists I've mentioned throughout this thread is no match. I think it's ok to limit yourself in what you devote your time too.
> 
> I feel as music aficionados, we sometimes try to be open to too much and forget what is more personal to us. That is something I think non music aficionados are really good at doing.
> 
> I'll be open if something in rock/pop moves me as much as Rufus Wainwright does, but until then, I'm content just browsing classical and checking out the billboard top hits and recommendations from others on the side to keep my knowledge up to date.


Give me a scalpel again! The reprogramming protocol isn't working on this one...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Give me a scalpel again! The reprogramming protocol isn't working on this one...


 lol haha


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Ya, Martin wrote all the orchestral arrangements on Yellow Submarine.


I remember an interview of George Martin in which he said that Paul asked him to help him arrange something for trumpet to put into Penny Lane, Paul having been inspired by a classical piece. Martin apparently wrote the trumpet part that was included in the final arrangement - at least that is the impression I had from the interview.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I agree with a lot of what you have said. But what about rock bands such as "Yes', "Dream Theater", and even more recent "Tool" that do have much complexity to their music? They certainly break away from the the 1, 4, 5 structure.

I still prefer Classical to these guys, but I'm interested to see what you have to say about them. My opinion is, rock and roll that attempts to write classical inspired recordings falls short and doesn't really work. 

A band like "Return to Forever", I feel, which is a jazz fusion band lead by Chick Corea, successfully applies composition with rock and roll instruments, but in jazz tradition. I've never been a fan of the band, because I find the compositions too erratic, but dynamically, and musically, it is certainly well done.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*Music Theory *section?


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I agree with a lot of what you have said. But what about rock bands such as "Yes', "Dream Theater", and even more recent "Tool" that do have much complexity to their music? They certainly break away from the the 1, 4, 5 structure.
> 
> I still prefer Classical to these guys, but I'm interested to see what you have to say about them. My opinion is, rock and roll that attempts to write classical inspired recordings falls short and doesn't really work.
> 
> A band like "Return to Forever", I feel, which is a jazz fusion band lead by Chick Corea, successfully applies composition with rock and roll instruments, but in jazz tradition. I've never been a fan of the band, because I find the compositions too erratic, but dynamically, and musically, it is certainly well done.


Captain: Where ever it was that I made remarks about the serious failing of pop/rock as a form of music, I believe that I noted that my estimate was that about 75% of it consisted of nothing more than a simple I IV V chord progression [and actual key changes? way beyond their meager abilities, except when they stumble onto something by accident].

So, I'm sure there are some rockers who have a bit of slim talent that allows them to create timeless melodies and higher quality harmonic spans. But, I don't pay attention to rock - if it doesn't bore me outright, then it's root canal irritating. So, I can't answer specific questions about The Mighty Windowsills, or The Milk Hammers, or The Large Small Intestine [see another issue here? the incredibly ludicrous names these rockers give themselves - how can anyone take them seriously?] . And really, unless you're a rocker - who cares? There's so much classical music - so much that it'd take several lifetimes to really hear and understand it all.

And that's my point to you.

You don't need to be encouraged to listen to more rock. That's like being encouraged to drink more soda - or more beer. You can always listen to rock. There's so much classical music waiting for you - THAT'S what you should be encouraged to turn you attention to. And, keep in mind that this's real music - so there's always more to it. Years and years after you think you know a piece, you come to it again only to discover a whole different level.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> Captain: Where ever it was that I made remarks about the serious failing of pop/rock as a form of music, I believe that I noted that my estimate was that about 75% of it consisted of nothing more than a simple I IV V chord progression [and actual key changes? way beyond their meager abilities, except when they stumble onto something by accident].
> 
> So, I'm sure there are some rockers who have a bit of slim talent that allows them to create timeless melodies and higher quality harmonic spans. But, I don't pay attention to rock - if it doesn't bore me outright, then it's root canal irritating. So, I can't answer specific questions about The Mighty Windowsills, or The Milk Hammers, or The Large Small Intestine [see another issue here? the incredibly ludicrous names these rockers give themselves - how can anyone take them seriously?] . And really, unless you're a rocker - who cares? There's so much classical music - so much that it'd take several lifetimes to really hear and understand it all.
> 
> ...


While I agree with your conclusion that I should be encouraged to listen to Classical, I do feel you are ignorantly shunning away from classically inspired rock. I have listened to it and feel it's not really for me because they don't have the same dynamics as Classical music, and it doesn't really seem to work very well IMO. Rock musicians don't have the same amount of attention to detail as Classical musicians in my opinion.

But listen to this song by Phish and let me know your thoughts on the composition:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also agree with someone who said earlier that real music is what you enjoy. But, it is totally ok to be proud of your taste and the culture that you are a part of due to that taste. It is ok to acknowledge that other forms of music tend to have less intellectual basis and inclusion within their culture and to state that in a kind way, but I don't think it's ok to say my taste is better. That is arrogant! 

Not everyone seeks to be a thinking man, indeed, and that is ok!


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> While I agree with your conclusion that I should be encouraged to listen to Classical, I do feel you are ignorantly shunning away from classically inspired rock. I have listened to it and feel it's not really for me because they don't have the same dynamics as Classical music, and it doesn't really seem to work very well IMO. Rock musicians don't have the same amount of attention to detail as Classical musicians in my opinion.
> 
> But listen to this song by Phish and let me know your thoughts on the composition:
> 
> ...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> Captainnumber36 said:
> 
> 
> > While I agree with your conclusion that I should be encouraged to listen to Classical, I do feel you are ignorantly shunning away from classically inspired rock. I have listened to it and feel it's not really for me because they don't have the same dynamics as Classical music, and it doesn't really seem to work very well IMO. Rock musicians don't have the same amount of attention to detail as Classical musicians in my opinion.
> ...


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> While I agree with your conclusion that I should be encouraged to listen to Classical, I do feel you are ignorantly shunning away from classically inspired rock. I have listened to it and feel it's not really for me because they don't have the same dynamics as Classical music, and it doesn't really seem to work very well IMO. Rock musicians don't have the same amount of attention to detail as Classical musicians in my opinion.


I listen to quite a bit of "classically inspired rock" and I'm not sure I agree with you assessment of it lacking attention to detail.

But my tastes tend toward the more avant garde side of the genre (RIO, avant prog, Zeuhl). These are bands much more influenced by composers from the mid 20th century to the present. Quite a bit more "thorny" sounding than YES, Dream Theater, Genesis and most of the bands people are familiar with in the genre.

Maybe give some of them a shot?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> My musical heirarchy:
> 1. Classical (any era, but special emphasis on modern)
> 2. Jazz (avant garde and free only, hate conventional)
> 3. Blues (pre 70's)
> ...


There is only one honest response I can offer - all classical.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> Quite a bit more "thorny" sounding than YES, Dream Theater, Genesis and most of the bands people are familiar with in the genre.
> 
> Maybe give some of them a shot?


Problem is Dream Theater is terrible, Yes and Genesis are amazing


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Surfin with the alien


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> Problem is Dream Theater is terrible, Yes and Genesis are amazing


This is the truth.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Surfin with the alien


Very rocking, great playing and execution, but I still found it rather dull. I've never been big on Satriani. And actually, I really don't enjoy the way Zappa plays lead on guitar at all. To me it sound very amateurish. I'm pretty sure Satriani and Zappa worked together if my memory serves me right.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

satriani is incredibly boring


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

But good in small doses


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Very rocking, great playing and execution, but I still found it rather dull. I've never been big on Satriani. And actually, I really don't enjoy the way Zappa plays lead on guitar at all. To me it sound very amateurish. I'm pretty sure Satriani and Zappa worked together if my memory serves me right.


Kinda agree on Satch but with Zappa your missing the mark, he was the master of distortion and effects. If you want to hear amateurish guitar listen to my stuff...........






http://www.kompoz.com/music/listen/release/713288


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

My favourite avant garde rock band:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> My favourite avant garde rock band:


I think I could enjoy this if it were arranged for stringed instruments. I couldn't get into the vocals though.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

jailhouse said:


> Problem is Dream Theater is terrible, Yes and Genesis are amazing


I was only using the same bands that were listed in the post I was responding to. I am not a DT fan.

True, YES and Genesis are amazing. 2 of my favorites.

My post was an attempt to recommend bands that are influenced by 20th century and contemporary classical composers, as opposed to the Classical period, which is where most prog bands get their influences.

Bands like: Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, Magma, Aranis, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, and the like.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Simon Moon said:


> I was only using the same bands that were listed in the post I was responding to. I am not a DT fan.
> 
> True, YES and Genesis are amazing. 2 of my favorites.
> 
> ...


Checked out Henry Cow, it feels fake to me for some reason.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think when it comes to highly composed music, I prefer classical instruments doing it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This is amazing:


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> My post was an attempt to recommend bands that are influenced by 20th century and contemporary classical composers, as opposed to the Classical period, which is where most prog bands get their influences.


If you look at who the founding fathers (they're all men) King Crimson and Emerson, Lake & Palmer are rewriting in 1969, it's actually early 20th century composers - early Bartok, Janacek, Holst. Though granted that the very earliest example I know of is The Nice on their second album (1968) with the intermezzo from Sibelius' "Karelia" suite, which is indeed pre-20th century, albeit barely. Unless we count "America" from Bernstein's "West Side Story," which they adapt on their first album (1967), in which case we're back in the 20th century again.


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

nothing _is_ real
and nothing to get hung about


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Magnum Miserium said:


> nothing _is_ real
> and nothing to get hung about


At least I'm knowledgeable to pick up on such references!


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Yeah, Bela Bartok is all over the way Robert Fripp plays guitar, especially his constant use of quick chromatic runs built around tritones.

lets take this track for example





the awesome polyrhythmic passage between 4:55-6:00 is very bartokian


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

jailhouse said:


> Yeah, Bela Bartok is all over the way Robert Fripp plays guitar, especially his constant use of quick chromatic runs built around tritones.
> 
> lets take this track for example
> 
> ...


Not for me, at all.


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> Yeah, Bela Bartok is all over the way Robert Fripp plays guitar, especially his constant use of quick chromatic runs built around tritones.
> 
> lets take this track for example
> 
> ...


The first time I heard the beginning of Bartok's string quartet 5, I immediately thought of the beginning of the loud part of that track.

(Yeah, sue me, I came to rock before I came to Bartok's quartet. I came to Mozart, Beethoven & Wagner before I came to rock, though, so I'm still cool.)


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)




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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Not for me, at all.


For me neither.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> That would be accurate. But maybe you did read too much into it. Perhaps you are debating your own preferences against my recent conclusions and are trying to understand more clearly where I am coming from.


Your prefernces are certainly very different to mine - I have little 'islands' of preference across almost all genres. I will admit that I haven't been too concerned with efficiency - I've spent years trawling through genres I perhaps don't like very much to find one or two gems that are appealing and fresh to me.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> Captain: Where ever it was that I made remarks about the serious failing of pop/rock as a form of music, I believe that I noted that my estimate was that about 75% of it consisted of nothing more than a simple I IV V chord progression.


There might be something in that if you were talking about the very early days of rock and roll (though even then, 75% is too high if you _literally _mean progressions containing _only _those chords). But if you're talking about rock/pop over the decades from then till now, then... no. For a start, there are way too many clichéd chord progressions for any single one of them to be found in more than a small percentage of songs!


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Yeah well larks tongues in particular is a king crimson album even more influenced by the classical and jazz avant garde than usual. Other albums would probably appeal more to traditional classical lovers


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

jailhouse said:


> Yeah well larks tongues in particular is a king crimson album even more influenced by the classical and jazz avant garde than usual. Other albums would probably appeal more to traditional classical lovers


Agree 100%. Like i said, appreciation for certain types of Classical is more similar to certain types of non-Classical than to other Classical types.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)




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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


I really don't enjoy Zappa.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Too bad your missing out


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Too bad your missing out


I've listened to quite a bit and just don't enjoy his guitar playing much at all.

I do like Yellow Shark, though.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

His Uncle Meat is great.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> His Uncle Meat is great.


"Meh" :tiphat: :tiphat:


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Checked out Henry Cow, it feels fake to me for some reason.


Then maybe check out Pere Ubu, starting with their first albums and then following with David Thomas and The Pedestrians.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Like this one. One of the best albums ever made.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> Then maybe check out Pere Ubu, starting with their first albums and then following with David Thomas and The Pedestrians.


Pere Ubu's Modern Dance rocks!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> Like this one. One of the best albums ever made.


That is awesome. Always liked the guy's earlier style


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> His Uncle Meat is great.


Agreed, its his best work


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Agreed, its his best work


I always thought this was entertaining


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is a great album for its aural qualities


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Pere Ubu's Modern Dance rocks!


One of my favourites!

I know many people don't listen to his later work, but a lot of that is interesting as well.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

And now this has become a showcase of taste in rock thread...go ahead, carry on! :tiphat:


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

If you all don't mind I wanna post it again and draw specific attention to the third piece "The Crickets in the Flats". It starts at 4.15 or so. The most incredible percussive piece I've ever heard. Right there with Zappa's Black Page as far as I'm concerned.

If you like it, spread the word! Pieces like this should be part of our common heritage.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> And now this has become a showcase of taste in rock thread...go ahead, carry on! :tiphat:


I'm sorry if it's not what you were looking for. I didn't follow the thread from the start, just followed up on one of the posts, but in a sincere way, so don't be cynical please.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> I'm sorry if it's not what you were looking for. I didn't follow the thread from the start, just followed up on one of the posts, but in a sincere way, so don't be cynical please.


I'm not being cynical, i was really attempting to be playful and acknowledge where the thread has turned too. I'm not worried about it, I've gotten what I needed already! Happy listening!


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Okay then. I'm enjoying myself. What did you get that you needed? I would be interested.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> Okay then. I'm enjoying myself. What did you get that you needed? I would be interested.


A rigorous challenge of my conclusions to help me work it out in my head.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Sounds like a personal thing. Hope you figure it out


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> Sounds like a personal thing. Hope you figure it out


I have! ! !


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

By the way, what classical do you get down to when you want to have a good old dance?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> By the way, what classical do you get down to when you want to have a good old dance?


I'll leave the dancing to the ballerinas!


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'll leave the dancing to the ballerinas!


I don't necessarily mean strutting your stuff in public type dancing.... just feeling the beat and moving your feet (even if just on your own doing the washing up)? What hits that spot?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> I don't necessarily mean strutting your stuff in public type dancing.... just feeling the beat and moving your feet (even if just on your own doing the washing up)? What hits that spot?


An energetic classical piece can make me glide around.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

This should hit the spot


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> This should hit the spot


It sure cured my gender-equality seeking side, this is the first time I've seen the woman lift the guy more times and higher than other way around. But I couldn't get a clear look long enough to see if it was really a woman.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> It sure cured my gender-equality seeking side, this is the first time I've seen the woman lift the guy more times and higher than other way around. But I couldn't get a clear look long enough to see if it was really a woman.


Your suspicions are correct the dance is a gender swap- the guy is a girl and the girl a guy


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Your suspicions are correct the dance is a gender swap- the guy is a girl and the girl a guy


How do you know? Did you check? Lucky I didn't quite drool.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> How do you know? Did you check? Lucky I didn't quite drool.


Was doing a bit of droolin' and wheelin and dealin' but no I read the posts below the vid which explained the dance..........


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The hyperactive and acrobatic blonde bears an uncanny resemblance to Michael Monroe of _Hanoi Rocks_!


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> This should hit the spot


Great post, Eddie. Never knew G-spot was a modern ballet piece


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Casebearer said:


> Great post, Eddie. Never knew G-spot was a modern ballet piece


The dancing is a bit too aggressive for me, but I like the music!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> The dancing is a bit too aggressive for me, but I like the music!


Is pretty cool, love the music and the dancing was good for someone not into dance too.

Thanks too Casebeater - I only just found it googling Gspot I never knew there was a vid to the *Ensemble Modern* performance


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Music of the Devil.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Vaneyes said:


> Music of the Devil.


Doesn't he have all the best tunes anyway?:lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)




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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I feel that now there's going to be hell to pay!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)




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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

QUOTE=Captainnumber36;1219259]Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.

[/QUOTE]

I'll resurrect. I know the feeling. I can listen to my 70's classics or smooth jazz or even some country (I hear the gasping), but it all gets old in a hour or so. Classical I can do all day .


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> QUOTE=Captainnumber36;1219259]Except Classical music. It's hard to go back to rock, it's so plain, simple, and unsophisticated. Even jazz doesn't feel as appealing anymore. I'm not really worried about it, but I'm definitely heavily into classical music right now.


Gaaaaaaaasssssssspppppppp - Coooooouuunntrrryy!

I'll resurrect. I know the feeling. I can listen to my 70's classics or smooth jazz or even some country (I hear the gasping), but it all gets old in a hour or so. Classical I can do all day .[/QUOTE]


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