# Barenboim's Chicago Tenure



## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

People seem to talk of Reiner's and Solti's golden era with Chicago. Some may even talk about Abbado's various recordings with CSO. What I don't hear about is Barenboim's long fifteen year tenure at CSO or the various recordings they produced. Why is this? Is Barenboim considered a bad conductor or not suited for the CSO? Were the recordings he produced with them not excellent? I heard some of his Strauss and it seemed fine to me. A little bright but Solti was king of extravagance.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> People seem to talk of Reiner's and Solti's golden era with Chicago. Some may even talk about Abbado's various recordings with CSO. What I don't hear about is Barenboim's long fifteen year tenure at CSO or the various recordings they produced. Why is this? Is Barenboim considered a bad conductor or not suited for the CSO? Were the recordings he produced with them not excellent? I heard some of his Strauss and it seemed fine to me. A little bright but Solti was king of extravagance.


I am sure our Chicago friends will help you.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Barenboim is one of those conductors you love or you hate. With whatever orchestra, people tend to find his performances either revelatory or boring. There is little middle ground.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I am sure our Chicago friends will help you.


Regardless of his concerts, what of his recordings?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

That is an interesting question that I never pondered. One reason that DB tenure doesn't have the luster of Reiner or Solti is that he didn't spend nearly as much time here as those two. He jet settled to Berlin, the Middle East, Argentina, and only would lead the Orchestra a quarter season or less. He Had much less say in picking the players than those two . His recorded legacy is more of a yawner...I can't think of one DB/CSO recording that I regard as essential, and there are many Reiner and Solti recordings that I regard as such.
Finally, he led the Orchestra at a time when most people on the Planet couldn't give a flying fig about Classical Music. Most Chicagoans couldn't have named him, or the present MD (Muti), if their lives depended upon it. Not so in years past


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> Regardless of his concerts, what of his recordings?


I love his early set of Mozart Concertos as the piano sonatas, his Chopin Nocturnes on DG. are a classic , he mad some spectacular recordings also with his late wife also. So no complaining from me.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I love his early set of Mozart Concertos as the piano sonatas, his Chopin Nocturnes on DG. are a classic , he mad some spectaculis recordings also with his late wide also. So no complaining from me.


I meant about his CSO recordings. What about his recordings with the CSO like Strauss, Mahler, Bruckner, Stravinsky, Brahms, Berlioz, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Ravel, etc.?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I do have a box with Bruckner but that's not with the CSO, it's the B.P playing.
The rest I am not familiar with, so perhaps someone else can enlighten you.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I do have a box with Bruckner but that's not with the CSO, it's the B.P playing.
> The rest I am not familiar with, so perhaps someone else can enlighten you.


How do you rate his Bruckner/BPO?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Claudio Abbado was at one time principal guest conductor in Chicago, but never music director . He certainly made some wonderful recordings there, though .
I haven't hard all of Barenboim's Bruckner set, but what I have heard is excellent . So is his live recording on Teldec of the Furtwangler second symphony , a symphony of genuine stature which deserves to be better known . Of course, Barenboim has been a great admirer of Furtwangler all his life and even played for him as a small boy and impressed him greatly with his talent .
I would also recommend Barenboim's recording with the Chicagoans of the first symphony of John Corigliano also on Teldec . Plus the Tedec Mahler 5th and the Saint-Saens Organ symphony on DG , to name only some.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> How do you rate his Bruckner/BPO?


Sorry, just seen your question, I do like the box very much, not all are strong but overall very good .


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Sorry, just seen your question, I do like the box very much, not all are strong but overall very good .


Have you tried his new Staatskapelle Berlin set?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> Have you tried his new Staatskapelle Berlin set?


 I don't, not high on my priority list either, sorry.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I don't, not high on my priority list either, sorry.


That's understandable. What are some of your favorite Bruckner symphony sets? Solti, perhaps?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> That's understandable. What are some of your favorite Bruckner symphony sets? Solti, perhaps?


Haitink and Karajan are my favourites.
( In no particular order )


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Haitink and Karajan are my favourites.
> ( In no particular order )


So, do you mean Haitink's COA set specifically or his various recordings issued after that boxed set?


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A lot of what Barenboim did in Chicago was mediocre. There were a couple standouts like the Furtwangler Symphony #2 that was mentioned and the Saint-Saens Symphony #3 (although I still prefer the likes of Munch, Paray and Martinon when it comes to the Saint-Saens) but the vast majority of his output was nothing special. 

Barenboim had neither the drive and excitement that Solti could generate, nor the discipline, clarity or energy that Reiner did. They were leaps and bounds above Barenboim in my book. I have heard most of what Barenboim has done behind the keyboard as well as the podium and most of it fails to impress me. Every now and then he has a hit that will surprise me but he's got an awful lot of misses in my opinion.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

realdealblues said:


> A lot of what Barenboim did in Chicago was mediocre. There were a couple standouts like the Furtwangler Symphony #2 that was mentioned and the Saint-Saens Symphony #3 (although I still prefer the likes of Munch, Paray and Martinon when it comes to the Saint-Saens) but the vast majority of his output was nothing special.
> 
> Barenboim had neither the drive and excitement that Solti could generate, nor the discipline, clarity or energy that Reiner did. They were leaps and bounds above Barenboim in my book. I have heard most of what Barenboim has done behind the keyboard as well as the podium and most of it fails to impress me. Every now and then he has a hit that will surprise me but he's got an awful lot of misses in my opinion.


I kind of agree. His Bruckner set with the CSO (DG) is quite special (I have a very high regard for his take of the Eighth, which I prefer it to his Berlin PO recording and the Fourth is among my favorites). But yes, he can be too self-conscious for his own good as critics (like Richard Osborne of Gramophone) had observed. Thankfully, he has gotten better as his career progressed, and his Wagner recordings are quite up there because of it (still with the quirkiness here and there, but a good deal more decisive).


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> So, do you mean Haitink's COA set specifically or his various recordings issued after that boxed set?


I mean the set with the Royal Concertgebouw orchestra from Amsterdam.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I mean the set with the Royal Concertgebouw orchestra from Amsterdam.


Have you heard his heard other Bruckner releases?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Herrenvolk said:


> Have you heard his heard other Bruckner releases?


I've heard 9 and 4 with the L.S.O and one from Vienna I believe ( no 3 )from the back of my head, not sure,I look in to it.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I've heard 9 and 4 with the L.S.O and one from Vienna I believe ( no 3 )from the back of my head, not sure,I look in to it.


How

How did you like the remakes?


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> I kind of agree. His Bruckner set with the CSO (DG) is quite special (I have a very high regard for his take of the Eighth, which I prefer it to his Berlin PO recording and the Fourth is among my favorites). But yes, he can be too self-conscious for his own good as critics (like Richard Osborne of Gramophone) had observed. Thankfully, he has gotten better as his career progressed, and his Wagner recordings are quite up there because of it (still with the quirkiness here and there, but a good deal more decisive).


What does "self-conscious" mean in audio recordings?


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> What does "self-conscious" mean in audio recordings?


Too deliberate in approach and interpretative insights, rather than just perform the work straight away, unadorned, and getting to the bones of the matter (what Wand and Haitink managed to do and to more satisfactory results). Just allow the music to flow, and its architecture will reveal itself (Karajan is a master at this, and Giulini come to think of him). Barenboim, and worse, Jochum, are the opposites of that, and with their rather too deliberate tempo changes, the structure of the music becomes distorted.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> Too deliberate in approach and interpretative insights, rather than just perform the work straight away, unadorned, and getting to the bones of the matter (what Wand and Haitink managed to do and to more satisfactory results). Just allow the music to flow, and its architecture will reveal itself (Karajan is a master at this, and Giulini come to think of him). Barenboim, and worse, Jochum, are the opposites of that, and with their rather too deliberate tempo changes, the structure of the music becomes distorted.


Any notable examples?


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

^^^
Examine their approach of the Eighth Symphony (or the Fifth for that matter), and you'll see what I mean.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> ^^^
> Examine their approach of the Eighth Symphony (or the Fifth for that matter), and you'll see what I mean.


The CSO, BPO, SB or all of them?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Barenboim worked with many record companies, of course.

I like the controversial DG S-Saens 3rd with Chicago & his later Teldec BPO Bruckner (extremely varying quality, though) and Teldec Wagner, less so his early Westminster or EMI recordings.

He also did some CBS recordings, such as Elgar, which I vaguely remember as quite good.

As for more Chicago recordings, I don´t recall hearing any other ones, including the DG Bruckner. 
I might actually have some, though.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> The CSO, BPO, SB or all of them?


All of them................


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> All of them................


Thank you, Orfeo.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> Thank you, Orfeo.


You're welcome.


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