# Blind Comparison #3 - Enigma Variations



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

For your weekend edification, entertainment and enlightenment, another blind comparison 

This time there are 5 performances of Elgar's Enigma Variations. As before the idea is to listen, compare and comment on each. The intent is not to guess who is performing ... but if you want to, go right ahead! Just one request, if you are sure that you recognize a particular performance, please don't post it in order not to ruin it for others, but feel free to PM me. Mostly I am interested in reading the various commentaries on each.

A - https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=XZOH3w7ZJb09UAXWDr4DDzHdaxOtq7YQ8x3y
B - https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=XZ3H3w7Zf1GNSLdowd5orK6P0wt6YXqWEqbk
C - https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=XZkz3w7Zn3mKqef2TXuPr6tM6CMjvJGKlo57
D - https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=XZ0z3w7Zwn2cJipMQjRusx5gBCPdrurLRUMV
E - https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=XZQz3w7ZsazC8Abtn8zjM68CQ9CwqyjpAnRX


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Wow! This is hard  I've never paid attention to this piece before, but I get the feeling it's a wonderful piece. I only listened to the theme and 1st variation of all versions and discovered some differences in time and dynamics (I think). AND I wonder how my memory works...In first instance I think I like D & E the most, but that might change. They clock in at 3'23" & 3'17", which is 3rd & 4th slowest tempo, if I managed to stop the recording at the right time. I think the dynamics in those 2 were well placed according to the score, that I found online. Actually this comparison seems huge to follow through. I'm ambivalent to the process  There are many things to consider and getting the piece under your skin is first step. I'm not quite there yet...


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Have fun!  .....


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Thanks, I'll see if I can get onto this over the weekend. It is a totally new work to me that I can't say I have ever heard before unless back around 1980 when i listened to Carl Hass' program on the classical station.


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I'm looking forward to a surprise! I often go for my so called favorite orchestras and conductors, but I'm not sure my favorites are justified out of a purely musical standpoint. I will probably learn a thing or two of my preferences in orchestral performance. I'm not used to comparing orchestras in the same piece, solo performances is what I'm familiar with. Anyway, I enjoy the music.


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Thanks Becca for setting up another blind comparison. Had a casual listen to all 5 today. Definitely like C the most. I like Elgar played with grit and no trace of sentimentality! (Could I be in the minority?)


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I only care to listen to Nimrod. Didn't like the performance in A. Really hated the performance in B, the very deliberate slow timing of the changes. Liked the performance in C, easily my favourite of the 5. Didn't like the timing of the changes in D either, nor the exaggerated diminuendo at the end. Liked the performance in E.

Agree with Kiki above. The pacing of C, and the control of the climax.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

As usual, with these comparisons, I have a quick skip through to find one that catches my ears and one stood out above the others so I've just listened. Recording C is dynamic, wonderfully paced (there's nothing worse than those that loiter in this repertoire - see Bernstein's dreadful Enigma) and sounds as familiar as an old shoe. Early stereo (?) but with great sound for its age I love this. Will listen to another in a bit but this one is gonna take some beating. Superb!


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The hardest part about doing these blind comparisons is resisting the temptation to respond to posts by announcing the results :lol:


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I've done a quick trawl through each of them (listening to the whole piece each time). I will listen again but so far I don't hate any of them. It is a work that can respond to many different approaches. I even like the infamous Bernstein one (which is not one of the five). I am left feeling that D and E are a little dull but that may be because I got to them last and at a different time. I actually enjoyed the first three and wouldn't want to choose between them, different though they are, not yet anyway. B seems to have a couple of faults in the recording so I am thinking it is not a commercial recording. I have several versions of this work but I don't think any that I have are among the five on offer here.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

OK. I'm done with them. It is a strange business to listen knowing that I am going to critique them. It focuses me on the detail rather than the whole. But,

1st - My favourite was C. It is lively and well characterised and very nicely phrased. I liked nearly everything about it. Why haven’t I got this one?
2nd - and very close to my 1st but a very different account is B. Perhaps because I am not sure I have heard anything like it before, I really liked it! It is a live recording and by its timing is the slowest of the bunch. But it doesn't sound that way - it is dynamic and has lots of life. The variations are nicely characterised and I love some of the phrasing. 
3rd - jointly A and E. A is fairly slow but quite nicely characterised and phrased. It seems like a fairly traditional reading from perhaps the 60s. E – Is more modern, I think, and is gentle and played fairly straight. I liked some parts but in other parts the conception seems a little quaint. Overall, is it a little capricious? 
5th - D. This is a little lugubrious and heavy. And it wasn't strongly characterised. I don’t hate it but I certainly don’t greatly warm to it. 

There was nothing in the five as slow as the slowest I have (which comes in at nearly 38 minutes) or as fast as the fastest (Elgar's own at a bit more than 27 minutes). I do look forward to hearing who B and c were.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Finally listened to two other performances (the rest will have to wait till at least Tuesday). After the Joy of performance C, account D was a big comedown. Broad and lacking in drama it's a labored reading and whilst it isn't rubbish its not a recording I'd return to again. E was much more enjoyable and a good account that I enjoyed (orchestra sounded very 'English but I could be well off the mark). Will tackle A&B on Tuesday but up to now it' s C, E, D in order of preference.


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I did not try hard enough. Only listened to the first 6 variations of all versions. It just seemed too complicated to decide on my preferences. Haven't done that before. I think I liked E the most, but I actually gave up and decided to hear the whole thing with Sir Colin Davies and the Bavarian radio symphony orchestra.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

That's the problem with the comparisons, they do take a fair bit of time to listen to and so if you're not keen on the piece it can be daunting (but why would you do a comparison of pieces you don't like? Lol) The payoff is you can listen to different versions of the work that you may not have considered or thought about trying because of an aversion to certain styles, conductors, etc. I've got a nightmare of a week to come but I'm determined to squeeze the last two recordings in as soon as possible.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

OK, I got through recording B today and it's certainly a very individual account. There's a strange attraction about it. Reminded me of a certain very individual Mahler conductor and was very quirky. Recording-wise I'm guessing early analogue and obviously live (some intrusive coughing, congestion in louder passages and the orchestra are pretty noisy too) . At one point it sounded like assorted members of the brass were trying to put up scaffolding. You know what...... I rather liked it. Just started A and it's the polar opposite of B. Will feed back tomorrow, when I've heard it all.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Crap, this is my 3rd post on the run!!!! Oh well. Finally done all 3 recordings so to summarise.....

1st *C* - My favourite recording by some distance and I'm pretty sure I have this (will PM you later to check, Becca). Lovely older stereo recording with plenty of wallop and really well paced.
2nd* A* - This is a grower for me. Warmly romantic at first but starts to kick into life later. The strings are very good but there's some lovely horns throughout and the finale is the best of the rest (after C).
3rd *B* - Strange, uneven, dodgily-recorded and older this is the sort of performance I expect from one of the old-guard (long-gone). For all its faults it has an inner charm I find endearing.
4th *E* - Another decent-ish performance but a little uneventful. It's all played well but it's straight down the line and doesn't really excite. Dynamically it's normalised. Agreee that it's a more modern recording (but I also think the same of A). 
5th *D* - Don't like this one much at all. Do I know this one? Sure I've heard it before and thought the same as I do now. Too slow, making the music drag and robbing the variations of character. Second time round it was a little better but still one to avoid. Old conductor / newer recording?


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Is there anyone else who will wants to finish the comparison before I post the results?


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Never mind about me... often found myself running out of time these days.

Only listened to A & D for a second time. A is very expressive but not over the top. D is easy-going, a lot more relaxed but it's not weak. My favourite is still C.

Looking at the timings, even C is not overly quick. Barbirolli did it at 25:51 in 1947, Elgar himself at 27:16 (both played _Troyte_ like a real presto!). However, C at 29:19 has a much firmer "control" over the pulsating rhythm and the contrast in the dynamics. Reminds me of a certain Italian conductor...


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Kiki said:


> However, C at 29:19 has a much firmer "control" over the pulsating rhythm and the contrast in the dynamics. Reminds me of a certain Italian conductor...


Or maybe a French guy? 

Just sent Becca my guesses. I'll be amazed if I've got C wrong cos I'm sure I have it.


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Merl said:


> Or maybe a French guy?
> 
> Just sent Becca my guesses. I'll be amazed if I've got C wrong cos I'm sure I have it.


Given that it's in stereo.... um, I don't know, the French guys I can think of are pretty slow (or were), but in reality even Celi is not necessarily the slowest so who knows. :lol:


----------



## pianoville (Jul 19, 2018)

Just by listening to the beginning of all recordings I can easily say that C is my favorite. Great tempo and a beautiful sound. My least favorite was B which I found way too sentimental. The rest I found quite dull and none of them were anything special to me. I don't know this work though so it kinda needs to get under my skin before I can do a proper comparison.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Yay, 2 out of 5. I'm chuffed. C and E nailed. Whoop! Great comparison, Becca. :trp:


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Thank you :wave:


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Becca said:


> Is there anyone else who will wants to finish the comparison before I post the results?


I fell way behind on this and likely will never catch up so proceed without me. There was one that sounded like it was taken from a vinyl lp. B i think it was.


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I don't mind that you post the results. I'm sort of in a Mozart and Nono state of mind. I liked the piece and would likely not have heard it if you didn't make this blind test.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Here are the details of the 5 performances...

A - Eugen Jochum / London Symphony (studio)
B - Gennady Rozhdestvensky / Royal Philharmonic (live, Proms)
C - Pierre Monteux / London Symphony (studio)
D - Simon Rattle / Berlin Philharmonic (live, Digital Concert Hall)
E - Mark Elder / Halle (live?)


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

It was interesting to me that the Monteux (I didn't know it was he at the time) was so similar to Oramo's recording. I knew it wasn't Oramo and it was somewhat better (more telling detail) but the approach was very similar, I thought. The Monteux is a record (or a set) that need! I am no Rattle fan but would not have expected him to be that dull. I feel vindicated for ignoring him all these years! Rozhedestvensky? I seem to love most of what he did. It was not at all idiomatic, though. 

Thanks, Becca. That was fun.


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

OK this is the fun part.... Jochum is not a surprise, though I didn't know he recorded the Enigma. Monteux is a big surprise, even though I was given a hint I could not guess it; it is so different from the _volatile_ impression (in a good sense) of him that I've got over the years. Rattle's "nice guy" Enigma is hard to believe; I would have expected him to be examining every strand of hair in Elgar's mustache... Rozhdestvensky and Mark Elder - no way I could have guessed these two, haha.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I got Monteux cos I've had it years and it's probably my favourite Enigma (as soon as I started listening my 'familiar recording' alarm was ringing). I guessed Elder too as its the last one I heard, a few months back. Otherwise I'm chuffed that Jochum was popular as I like a lot of what he recorded. Surprised at the age of that one too as it sounds far more modern in really good sound. I don't have that Enigma but i will be getting it now. Like many others, the Rattle surprised me as it was pretty boring. I actually thought it was Davis and the LSO's live version (similarly lethargic and dull, IMO) so I wasn't that far off. I guessed Barbirolli for the Rozhdestvensky as it was quirky, like Barbirolli's Mahler, and sounded of a similar vintage. Great comparison, Becca, and a joy to reacquaint myself with, for me, Elgar's finest work. It had been a while.


----------

