# Who is your favorite Wotan?



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I love George London myself.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Hotter is great as well.
And Hines on the Kempe 1960 Walkure is awesome.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Itullian said:


> Hotter is great as well.
> And Hines on the Kempe 1960 Walkure is awesome.


I do remember hearing Hotter on the Solti WALKEURE when I was in college, but I haven't heard it since and can't really call it to mind right now. I haven't got much experience with different Wotans, but recently I heard Bryn Terfel's recording of Wotan's Farewell that he made with Abbado in 2000 or so and was surprised by how effective it was -- very beautiful and touching.


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## Volve (Apr 14, 2013)

Hotter is still my favorite, closely tied with McIntyre, but I also enjoy the more lyrical approach of Thomas Stewart or James Morris. I'm not too big on Terfel's Wotan though, personally, his light and clear voice puts me off, much like Fischer-Dieskau's did when he recorded Wotan. Never heard Rene Pape singing the entire role, only the Leb Wohl, and I was quite pleased with that.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I didn't really care for Terfel either. He was ok though.
James Morris was very good as was Stewart.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love George London myself.


I'm with you. His dark, virile roar was made for _Gottheit_. I grew up (1960s) with him on the Solti _Rheingold_ and the Leinsdorf _Walkure_ (a recording which deserves more acclaim than it gets, BTW - best all-round cast of any, in my estimation, if a little recessed in vocal presence). Hotter was great, of course, though rougher-sounding even when young; I can't enjoy him much by the time he recorded Solti's _Walkure_, Shakespearean eloquence notwithstanding. Some others have done well, but - no, London has the measure of the part: an absolutely individual voice, great intelligence, superb diction, the whole package.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Hotter is awesome on the Krauss but by the time he got round to recording the role with Solti, the voice had worn badly. Of course, there are Wotans with just as little voice as the later Hotter but little of the insights he brought to the part. 
Stewart for Karajan is good but a bit light on voice. I also think Theo Adam was good in the role.
Actually, I think Wotan is a pain of a role, a mass of contradictions. I have no sympathy for him at all. He is just a greedy, self-centred power monger. The farewell at the end of Walkure is supposed to be heart rending but I'm just irritated by this self obsessed creep who, having got his daughter into this mess, now lets her take the rap for it. Mind you, reading the history of the Wagner family, it doesn't surprise me the image of fathers the self-absorbed RW imagined.
If a Wotan can make us sympathise with him in this role he has done a good job.


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## OperaMaven (May 5, 2014)

Itullian said:


> And Hines on the Kempe 1960 Walkure is awesome.


Interestingly, Hines quit performing that role not too long afterwards, claiming the tessitura was uncomfortably high for him. An interesting interview with him can be found here: http://www.kcstudio.com/hines.html


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Hotter...particularly with the Keilberth '55 recording.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I like McIntyre best. Hotter is an obvious choice as was London. I sometimes wonder how London would have sounded as Alberich with his somewhat Ogreish sound lol. I love the way basses sound in the role as well, but oftentimes the role lies too high & the strain becomes apparent especially at the end of Walkure...call me crazy but I don't like Morris' voice in the role at all. It sounds all wrong after listening to other great Wotan's. I know he is generally regarded as the Wotan of his generation, but his voice is not for me. I also don't like Terfel very much in the role. I prefer him in less dramatic stuff.


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## Robe (Feb 2, 2016)

Hotter, 1955 Keilberth.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Hotter '57 Kna' and Morris for Levine. The final passages of _Walkure_ are amazing in the Levine recording. Very lyrical, and very beautiful.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Any Hans Hotter from the 1950s Bayreuth as Wotan/Wanderer......he is able to characterize the role better than any other I have heard, his agile nuanced voice paints the most complete emotional canvas for me, others are singing notes Hotter brings them vividly to life, his lieder training paying off in spades


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

While he is overlooked because it is the slow Goodall Ring, I think that Norman Bailey belongs up there with the best. As to Terfel ... not impressed.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Hans Hotter will do it for me, any day of the week.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I really like James Morris' Wotan in the Levine 1990 DVD. I think it is also that James Morris was my first Hans Sachs in Meistersinger and I like him there quite well also.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Florestan said:


> I really like James Morris' Wotan in the Levine 1990 DVD. I think it is also that James Morris was my first Hans Sachs in Meistersinger and I like him there quite well also.


Can you explain to me the appeal of James Morris in the role of Wotan? Not to be antagonistic at all, I genuinely want to understand this. I really like his acting, but I don't understand why people like the voice. To my ears it is among the least godlike of the Wotan's I've heard. Its even whiney sounding & tenorial at times. Not what I expect from the god of gods. I know he has the reputation as the best Wotan of his generation & I'd love to know why.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Richards said:


> Can you explain to me the appeal of James Morris in the role of Wotan? Not to be antagonistic at all, I genuinely want to understand this. I really like his acting, but I don't understand why people like the voice. To my ears it is among the least godlike of the Wotan's I've heard. Its even whiney sounding & tenorial at times. Not what I expect from the god of gods. I know he has the reputation as the best Wotan of his generation & I'd love to know why.


Well it may in part be his acting. I am getting it from watching the Levine DVD set. He just seems to have this smart alecky look that seems to fit quite well the personality of Wotan who acts like he is the greatest. In both videos he comes off as this guy who has it together--calm, cool, and collected.

Also I do like his voice and the connection to him (albeit an older Morris) in my Meistersinger set adds a lot because I really like his performance there too. I suppose I should listen to the voice sometime without the video just to see if it stands apart from the great acting, but off hand I don't recall anything about his voice that bothered me.

I very well might like Donald McIntyre as Wotan, at least the voice. What I saw of him on video in You Tube clips was okay but not as good IMO as James Morris. But Donald McIntyre is my star Dutchman in the Sawallisch DVD.

So, I don't know if I fully answered your question, so feel free to inquire further.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Well it may in part be his acting. I am getting it from watching the Levine DVD set. He just seems to have this smart alecky look that seems to fit quite well the personality of Wotan who acts like he is the greatest. In both videos he comes off as this guy who has it together--calm, cool, and collected.
> 
> Also I do like his voice and the connection to him (albeit an older Morris) in my Meistersinger set adds a lot because I really like his performance there too. I suppose I should listen to the voice sometime without the video just to see if it stands apart from the great acting, but off hand I don't recall anything about his voice that bothered me.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with your opinions on his acting. He is really good as both Sachs & Wotan. He really does embody the character. Its his timbre as Wotan that doesn't seem quite right to me. Plus his scooping. If you listen to him after Hotter, London, Tomlinson, McIntyre, Fritz, Hines, Schorr etc I think you'll understand what I mean. Not saying there's only one way to sing Wotan, but he doesn't sound Godly enough imo


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

James Morris certainly looked the part the most. On CD I like Tomlinson best.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Friedrich Schorr and Alexander Kipnis run Rings around the competition for me.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Friedrich Schorr and Alexander Kipnis run Rings around the competition for me.


Great choices! I especially like Kipnis' farewell.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Friedrich Schorr and Alexander Kipnis run Rings around the competition for me.


Is there a recording of Kipnis singing the whole role?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Kipnis was a deep bass, not a bass-baritone. He didn't sing Wotan on stage - the high notes would stretch him a little - but this is fabulous:






Gurnemanz was his greatest Wagner part, and no one was better at it.











There were giants in the earth in those days.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> There were giants in the earth in those days.


Of course there were! What would the Ring be without them?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> Of course there were! What would the Ring be without them?


And they could sing Rings around the pygmies of today.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> And they could sing Rings around the pygmies of today.


Do you have a theory for why that is? Why aren't the singers getting better?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Schorr is my blind spot among Wotans--I've yet to hear a recording of him I like. By 1941, he's clearly the weak link in the great day-before-Pearl-Harbor Met _Walküre_ broadcast under Leinsdorf, with Melchior, Traubel debuting as Brünnhilde, and the twenty-three-year old Varnay making her first stage appearance ever as Sieglinde. Schorr's aged, colorless voice, lacking any vibrato, is just a blunt instrument on high notes.

That was at the very end of his career, but I have similar issues with his recordings from the 30's, like the 1936 San Francisco _Walküre_ Act II conducted by Reiner, with Melchior, Flagstad, and Lehmann.

Maybe I'll have to look into even earlier recordings to fully appreciate his ability.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> . . . the Leinsdorf _Walkure_ (a recording which deserves more acclaim than it gets, BTW - best all-round cast of any, in my estimation, if a little recessed in vocal presence).


Second all of this.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

amfortas said:


> Schorr is my blind spot among Wotans--I've yet to hear a recording of him I like. By 1941, he's clearly the weak link in the great day-before-Pearl-Harbor Met _Walküre_ broadcast under Leinsdorf, with Melchior, Traubel debuting as Brünnhilde, and the twenty-three-year old Varnay making her first stage appearance ever as Sieglinde. Schorr's aged, colorless voice, lacking any vibrato, is just a blunt instrument on high notes.
> 
> That was at the very end of his career, but I have similar issues with his recordings from the 30's, like the 1936 San Francisco _Walküre_ Act II conducted by Reiner, with Melchior, Flagstad, and Lehmann.
> 
> *Maybe I'll have to look into even earlier recordings to fully appreciate his ability*.


The best sound quality to really hear Schorr in prime voice is the Pristine XR potted Ring from 1926-32 HMV studio recordings, and many other famous singers of the same era......must wait a bit longer till Pristine website is back on line


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

amfortas said:


> Schorr is my blind spot among Wotans--I've yet to hear a recording of him I like. By 1941, he's clearly the weak link in the great day-before-Pearl-Harbor Met _Walküre_ broadcast under Leinsdorf, with Melchior, Traubel debuting as Brünnhilde, and the twenty-three-year old Varnay making her first stage appearance ever as Sieglinde. Schorr's aged, colorless voice, lacking any vibrato, is just a blunt instrument on high notes.
> 
> That was at the very end of his career, but I have similar issues with his recordings from the 30's, like the 1936 San Francisco _Walküre_ Act II conducted by Reiner, with Melchior, Flagstad, and Lehmann.
> 
> Maybe I'll have to look into even earlier recordings to fully appreciate his ability.


Schorr debuted in 1912. He was in his prime before the mid-1930s. His 1927-1931 _Meistersinger_ excerpts are superb.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DarkAngel said:


> The best sound quality to really hear Schorr is the Pristine XR potted Ring from 1926-32 studio recordings, and many other famous singers of the same era......must wait a bit longer till Pristine website is back on line


Potted Ring only $174 used on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000000WP5/


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Florestan said:


> Potted Ring *only $174 used* on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000000WP5/


The Pearl label set draws from the same material 1926-32 HMV studio recordings, but Pristine XR takes the initial work by Obert-Thorn and further enhances it.......it is the best sound

That is crazy price to pay also, the "only" must be sarcasm for us bankrupted readers 

HMV = his masters voice


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*George London Sings Wotan's Farewell*



Seattleoperafan said:


> I love George London myself.


I'll second that emotion!






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## cheftimmyr (Oct 28, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> The best sound quality to really hear Schorr in prime voice is the Pristine XR potted Ring from 1926-32 HMV studio recordings, and many other famous singers of the same era......must wait a bit longer till Pristine website is back on line


Thankfully this is next in my line... hope to be well into this by the end of the weekend! I loved Schorr in his Meistersinger recordings... can't wait to hear him as Wotan


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Did anyone have the privilege of hearing John Tomlinson live? His voice seems cavernous & huge on recordings. Did it sound that way in the house?


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Did anyone have the privilege of hearing John Tomlinson live? His voice seems cavernous & huge on recordings. Did it sound that way in the house?


The reason why John Tomlinson sounds different is because he started out as a Bass. He usually played Hagen. Tomlinson is my favourite Wotan, followed by George London.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

^ Wow, That IS Wotan! I may have to change my avatar picture. But where is the eye patch? Oh it is an eyglass with a black lens. Hey, what is with the geometry later in the clip?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Loge said:


> The reason why John Tomlinson sounds different is because he started out as a Bass. He usually played Hagen. Tomlinson is my favourite Wotan, followed by George London.


Yes Tomlinson has the ideal voice for Wotan! I'm aware he is a bass, but what I'd like to know is how big the voice is live? I have heard however that he often reached the 'Leb Wohl' without much voice left due to the role being written for a higher voice...London also has an amazing voice for the role, but there is no recording of him in the full role that I'm aware of, so i can't really say how great he was. His vocal crisis preventing him from truly showing what he could do.


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Florestan said:


> ^ Wow, That IS Wotan! I may have to change my avatar picture. But where is the eye patch? Oh it is an eyglass with a black lens. Hey, what is with the geometry later in the clip?


The famous or infamous laser ring. My personal recommendation for the Ring on DVD. Sort of inspired the Matrix ten years later. And it still has the best immolation scene on DVD, though the ending is still a bit weird for me.


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Yes Tomlinson has the ideal voice for Wotan! I'm aware he is a bass, but what I'd like to know is how big the voice is live? I have heard however that he often reached the 'Leb Wohl' without much voice left due to the role being written for a higher voice...London also has an amazing voice for the role, but there is no recording of him in the full role that I'm aware of, so i can't really say how great he was. His vocal crisis preventing him from truly showing what he could do.


I have heard Tomlinson live twice in the last few years. His voice isn't what is was, but he was playing the roles of Gurnemanz and King Marke, old world weary men, so it kind of worked. But every so often you can hear the flashes of his youthfulish Wotan. It is a big voice, but then most basses and bass baritones sound big. The thing with John Tomlinson is he has amazing stage presence. When I saw Parsifal at the Royal Albert Hall people who did not know who he was, were in awe of him. So I can only imagine what his live Wotan was like.

As for George London I have read he was the heir apparent at Bayreuth to replace Hotter until he got ill and had voice problems.

P.S

I am off to see John Tomlinson as the Sergeant in the Pirates of Penzance at the ENO next Saturday. It should be great fun and an added bonus to hear the great man sing.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Loge said:


> I have heard Tomlinson live twice in the last few years. His voice isn't what is was, but he was playing the roles of Gurnemanz and King Marke, old world weary men, so it kind of worked. But every so often you can hear the flashes of his youthfulish Wotan. It is a big voice, but then most basses and bass baritones sound big. The thing with John Tomlinson is he has amazing stage presence. When I saw Parsifal at the Royal Albert Hall people who did not know who he was, were in awe of him. So I can only imagine what his live Wotan was like.
> 
> As for George London I have read he was the heir apparent at Bayreuth to replace Hotter until he got ill and had voice problems.
> 
> ...


Very cool! I think he was definitely THE Wotan of his time. I wonder if he teaches regularly, in addition to the masterclasses...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I saw Norman Bailey in Glasgow many years ago when ENO brought the Ring there with Rita Hunter and Alberto Remedios. That was a fabulous production and Bailey was a brilliant Wotan.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Who do you all find is the best Wotan singing the role currently?


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Who do you all find is the best Wotan singing the role currently?


Bryn Terfel have never heard his Wotan live, but have heard him sing the Dutchman. And I must say recordings do not do justice to his voice. Live he sounds so much more resonant, deep and chocolaty. His voice is far larger than you may think, so I would love to hear his Wotan.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Loge said:


> Bryn Terfel have never heard his Wotan live, but have heard him sing the Dutchman. And I must say recordings do not do justice to his voice. Live he sounds so much more resonant, deep and chocolaty. His voice is far larger than you may think, so I would love to hear his Wotan.


Good to know! In the Lepage Ring recordings his voice doesn't sound right for it imo, but perhaps in the house it's a different story. Sign me up to hear his live Wotan as well!


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> Good to know! In the Lepage Ring recordings his voice doesn't sound right for it imo, but perhaps in the house it's a different story. Sign me up to hear his live Wotan as well!


He can be heard as the Walkure Wotan on the Barenboim 2013 Proms concert performance. Better than on the Lepage, and by no means is his performance an impediment to enjoying that excellent performance, but he still sounds more like Scarpia than a Wotan to me. But then I tend to prefer high basses over baritones with low extensions for Wotan.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Whoever your Wotan is right now, you need to hear this singer I've just discovered, Austrian baritone *HANS REINMAR*(1895-1961).






Here's a bit of bio:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/mar04/Reinmar.htm

His other YouTube selections are well worth hearing, especially his Amfortas and a spine-tingling _Otello_ "vengeance duet" with Helge Roswaenge (in German).


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^^ Nice, the name was unknown to me previously, goes back to the discussion of really great wagner singers in the old days virtually unknown today.....

As great as Hotter was in the 1950s there are even better examples from 1940s, here is an early 1942 "wotans farewell" what an amazing emotional vocal characterization such a beautiful soft voice, a true artist............


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> ^^^^ Nice, the name was unknown to me previously,* goes back to the discussion of really great wagner singers in the old days virtually unknown today.....
> *
> 
> As great as Hotter was in the 1950s there are even better examples from 1940s, here is an early "wotans farewell" what an amazing emotional vocal characterization such a beautiful soft voice, a true artist............


I'm constantly and pleasantly surprised at my discoveries of singers from the past who could really sing Wagner's supposedly impossible operas with vocal purity, ease, legato, clear diction, and style.

Thanks for that wonderful "Abschied" by the young Hotter. Truly moving.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> ^^^^ Nice, the name was unknown to me previously, goes back to the discussion of really great wagner singers in the old days virtually unknown today.....
> 
> As great as Hotter was in the 1950s there are even better examples from 1940s, here is an early 1942 "wotans farewell" what an amazing emotional vocal characterization such a beautiful soft voice, a true artist............


Wow Dark Angel, thanks for that! Amazing how much the voice darkened with age. Hotter is an idol of mine


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> He can be heard as the Walkure Wotan on the Barenboim 2013 Proms concert performance. Better than on the Lepage, and by no means is his performance an impediment to enjoying that excellent performance, but he still sounds more like Scarpia than a Wotan to me. But then I tend to prefer high basses over baritones with low extensions for Wotan.


I agree with this. I prefer Terfel in the italian baritone roles, & unless the baritone has a very dark color ala George London, I prefer a bass for Wotan as well


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Has anyone heard Matthias Goerne sing Wotan? It doesn't seem like the right voice, but I've been reading favorable reviews.


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