# Nelson Mandela Tribute



## Guest (Dec 7, 2013)

A beautiful poem written and read by a beautiful woman for a beautiful man.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Members are reminded of the terms of service:



> A special forum has been created for Political and/or Religious discussions that are related to Classical Music. If members wish to create topics for discussion regarding political and religious topics not related to Classical Music, such will be strictly limited to Social Groups only.


This thread was allowed as a simple tribute to Mr Mandela *not for any political discussion* about what he did or didn't do.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Members are reminded of the terms of service:
> 
> This thread was allowed as a simple tribute to Mr Mandela *not for any political discussion* about what he did or didn't do.


Thank you. I hate it when thread get derailed.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Members are reminded of the terms of service:
> 
> This thread was allowed as a simple tribute to Mr Mandela *not for any political discussion* about what he did or didn't do.


I notice there is a group called "Political Junkies" (http://www.talkclassical.com/groups/political-junkies.html), where no doubt people can go vent against Mandela to their hearts' content. But it doesn't seem to have many members or to be very active, thus we can conclude that most classical music fans are just not all that much interested in that sort of controversy (the religious discussion group is equally dead).

Here in South Africa, Mandela is almost universally revered across the entire political spectrum, with the exception of a rather small number of people. Like Gandhi, he was one of the few politicians/political activists who seemed to eventually completely transcend politics.

His face adorns all the bank notes:









and monuments and places, streets, etc. named after him abound.

In short, calling him a terrorist is not likely to win one many friends here. But I would invite all who wish to do so, to go do it on the political discussion group.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

The greatest tribute you can pay to anyone is to understand them. Neither daemoning nor sanctifying them, recognising their faults as well as their achievements. If praise of Mandela is not off-topic then neither is criticism.

Apparently he liked Handel and Tchaikovsky. There's quite a few songs about him but I expected to find more classical compositions, the only ones I found were Richard Arnell's _Mandela Ode_ and an unfinished _Symphonic Statement M_ perhaps part of his 7th Symphony. Can't find that online so here's a "classic".


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Well, there is this CD from my collection:

View attachment 30063


and corresponding YouTube of a fragment:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

quack said:


> The greatest tribute you can pay to anyone is to understand them. Neither daemoning nor sanctifying them, recognising their faults as well as their achievements. If praise of Mandela is not off-topic then neither is criticism.


He himself got very irritated when people treated him like a saint or implied that he single-handedly saved the entire country. He always insisted that it was a team effort.

In due course there will be a more balanced appreciation of his achievements. But at the moment, the atmosphere here is like it was when Princess Diana died: a media-fueled frenzy of mourning. I try not to contribute too much to it; the whole thing seems to me to be a tad tasteless.

But a polite tip of the hat is in order. The man surely deserved at least that much.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Taggart said:


> Members are reminded of the terms of service:
> 
> This thread was allowed as a simple tribute to Mr Mandela *not for any political discussion* about what he did or didn't do.


Some off-topic political statements have been deleted from this thread.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

He and other figures of the 20th century like Gandhi have made me reasses how I handle the challenges in this thing called "life." No, they where not perfect, they where complex and flawed human beings like the rest of us. However the main things I take from their examples is to try and empathise with others and be as respectful as possible, even with people I might not like that much. Also, the thing that "an eye for an eye" approach doesn't solve problems, it makes them worse. There's a better way out of all this mess, even though in my darker moments I think that people will never get out of the cycle of violence and mind games. 

If they are seen as tokens and idols, their real philosophies and the consequences of their actions is easily overlooked and of not much practical use. So what I take from them is to apply these things in daily life - and I am tested every day - of course for me the consequences are not as dire as what they faced, eg. being imprisoned, being put into the political wilderness for decades, numerous attempts to break their spirit and wear them down. In any case, whenever I face certain obstacles, their example is there to guide me, they are like positive signs in the desert of the spin, gobbledigook and ideology that is so easily encountered in everyday "Modern" life. That's all fake, what these guys did was for real.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Not my intention to derail this thread. I hope this is somewhat relevant. I last left Afghanistan in 09. Someone in my position has a very tangible reason to feel hatred. I lost many friends and saw many atrocities. I always believed there was some good in all men. I've seen things that have made me question that over and over. I've also seen redemption. Many are quick to dig up the past and label Mandela a terrorist. Others mindlessly praise him. The one thing I know to be true is the man faced hardships. Hardships that most of us will never come close to experiencing. That was my takeaway from combat. I was there for a limited amount of time. I fought, but when it was all said and done, I returned to my family and the comforts of everyday life. My enemies stayed. It's their land and they do what they know how to do. I might disagree with their principles but I respect their courage. Mandela has been called many things, both good and bad, in ignorance. The fact remains he succeeded in a land where he had no chance to succeed. He experienced redemption. That I respect.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

brianvds said:


> He himself got very irritated when people treated him like a saint or implied that he single-handedly saved the entire country. He always insisted that it was a team effort.
> 
> In due course there will be a more balanced appreciation of his achievements. But at the moment, the atmosphere here is like it was when Princess Diana died: a media-fueled frenzy of mourning. I try not to contribute too much to it; the whole thing seems to me to be a tad tasteless.
> 
> But a polite tip of the hat is in order. The man surely deserved at least that much.


Hey, brianvds, why does it rain so much in Centurion?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Hey, brianvds, why does it rain so much in Centurion?


One of the effects of climate change is that the Indian monsoon season has shifted from India to Centurion. 

In a rather dry country, I suppose we shouldn't complain too much when we have a wet summer, but I find myself increasingly frustrated. All the cloud made me miss out on Comet ISON, and now, even worse, there is an even rarer phenomenon that I am missing out on, namely a bright and easy to find nova near the Southern Cross.

I'm going to sue the International Astronomical Union; they should arrange for these things to happen in the southern hemisphere winter, when we typically have clear skies here.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Haha, cool that you are an astronomy enthusiast. I am a small one too, I try to see Jupiter these days. No telescopes though.

I was talking about the rain spoiling the cricket however...

The test matches should be fun.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Haha, cool that you are an astronomy enthusiast. I am a small one too, I try to see Jupiter these days. No telescopes though.


Yes, I am not a total fanatic, but a sort of casual but enthusiastic sky watcher. I have a small spotting scope, mainly for bird watching, but it does come in handy for amateur astronomy too now and then. In my opinion though, the best equipment for the casual sky watcher is a pair of binoculars, which are easy to handle and carry around, and will show you almost anything a small telescope will, including the moons of Jupiter, craters on our own moon and even the crescent phase of Venus.



> I was talking about the rain spoiling the cricket however...
> The test matches should be fun.


India had better PRAY for rain...


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Wow, yes I am thinking of buying a good pair of binos sometime... I like geometry and stuff, and imagining things in 3D is such a challenge, trying to answer questions like: How does the vernal equinox shifts backwards by about a few minutes every year. 

As for the cricket, if nothing miraculous happens, India's fate should be similar to what our dear Englishmen are facing Down Under. They will be Steyned, Morkeled and Philandered. Which will be a good thing because that'll make them look at their game more closely...


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Wow, yes I am thinking of buying a good pair of binos sometime... I like geometry and stuff, and imagining things in 3D is such a challenge, trying to answer questions like: How does the vernal equinox shifts backwards by about a few minutes every year.


Yup, those aspects of astronomy are pretty challenging! Also trying to work out when exactly a celestial event will take place on any particular spot on Earth, when you have to take into account various time zones and stuff.



> As for the cricket, if nothing miraculous happens, India's fate should be similar to what our dear Englishmen are facing Down Under. They will be Steyned, Morkeled and Philandered. Which will be a good thing because that'll make them look at their game more closely...


Getting completely humiliated has thus far worked well to keep the South African team on their toes, so perhaps the same will be the case for India. But then, I would strongly advise the South African team not to underestimate India just because they have had a few bad games.


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