# was there bad tension between Tchaikovsky and Rimsky Korsakov???



## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

why we gossip??? because it is super entertaining!

I read Rimsky Korsakov's book "my musical life" and I couldn't help myself but to wonder how come Korsakov didn't mention Tchaikovsky?? is it because of jealousy or could it be that Tchaikovsky was so irrelevant???


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I personally have never found any Rimsky Korsakov that I actually liked. I've never been a big Tchaikovsky fan, but I would say that Tchaikovsky is much more relevant in every sense of the word that Rimsky Korsakov. Tchaikovsky's music has infiltrated our lives, and we cannot avoid it. Rimsky Korsakov music is for pretty much people that already know a good deal of classical music, and about 30 composers that are more well known.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

There always was tension between Tchaikovsky and the members of the "Mighty Few" or "The Five" as Rimsky's group was called, because of their different artistic goals and methods. But Rimsky and Tschaikovsky always respected each other, the latter even being somewhat of a mentor to the younger composer. So no, there was no enmity , just slight rivalty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ilyich_Tchaikovsky_and_The_Five#Rimsky-Korsakov


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

regenmusic said:


> I personally have never found any Rimsky Korsakov that I actually liked. I've never been a big Tchaikovsky fan, but I would say that Tchaikovsky is much more relevant in every sense of the word that Rimsky Korsakov. Tchaikovsky's music has infiltrated our lives, and we cannot avoid it. Rimsky Korsakov music is for pretty much people that already know a good deal of classical music, and about 30 composers that are more well known.


Flight of the Bumblebee is at least as ubiquitous in common culture as anything Tchaikovsky wrote.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

As a music critic for various publications, Tchaikovsky gave a favorable reception to Rimsky-Korsakov's first symphonic works while noting some of their technical shortcomings: "There can be no doubt that this exceptionally talented man is destined to become one of the most admirable exponents of our art", he concluded. As a result of this criticism, Rimsky undertook various exercises in counterpoint: fugues, canons and chorales with figured bass, which he sent to Tchaikovsky to correct. The latter replied to him with a letter showing his regard: "I sincerely admire and bow down before your noble modesty as an artist and your astonishing strength of character. These countless exercises in counterpoint that you have written, the sixty fugues and the numerous other musical subtleties, all this is such an exploit for a man who, eight years ago, composed _Sadko_, that I would like to proclaim it before the whole world!"

In 1873 Tchaikovsky wrote the brilliant incidental music for Ostrovski's play _Snegurochka_ (The Snow Maiden) which included twenty symphonic and vocal numbers, featuring many folk melodies. A cloud darkened the relationship between Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov when, seven years later, in 1880, the latter wrote an opera on the same theme which he was always to consider as his most accomplished work. Tchaikovsky vented his resentment in a letter to his editor: "Is it not disagreeable to you too to know that our subject has been stolen, that Lel is to sing other music on the same text, and that something intimate and precious has been snatched from me and used in another arrangement. I am so vexed that I could cry"! From this point, a heated rivalry developed between the two men.


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## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

progmatist said:


> Flight of the Bumblebee is at least as ubiquitous in common culture as anything Tchaikovsky wrote.


also Sheherazade, Russian Easter Overture, Capriccio Espagnole, The Song of India from Sadko, Procession of the Nobles from Mlada, and the Polonaise from Christmas Eve. These will frequently be encountered in classical concerts, recordings and on radio. The Symphony No. 2 "Antar" isn't as well known, but it should be. His operas are rarely performed outside of Russia, but if they were I think his reputation would rightly improve. In conclusion, R-K wasn't the greatest Russian composer of all time, but I would put him in sixth place behind Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev and Rachmaninov, with Scriabin nipping at his heels and Mussorgsky, Borodin, and Glazunov straggling in the rear.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> As a music critic for various publications, Tchaikovsky gave a favorable reception to Rimsky-Korsakov's first symphonic works while noting some of their technical shortcomings: "There can be no doubt that this exceptionally talented man is destined to become one of the most admirable exponents of our art", he concluded. As a result of this criticism, Rimsky undertook various exercises in counterpoint: fugues, canons and chorales with figured bass, which he sent to Tchaikovsky to correct. The latter replied to him with a letter showing his regard: "I sincerely admire and bow down before your noble modesty as an artist and your astonishing strength of character. These countless exercises in counterpoint that you have written, the sixty fugues and the numerous other musical subtleties, all this is such an exploit for a man who, eight years ago, composed _Sadko_, that I would like to proclaim it before the whole world!"
> 
> In 1873 Tchaikovsky wrote the brilliant incidental music for Ostrovski's play _Snegurochka_ (The Snow Maiden) which included twenty symphonic and vocal numbers, featuring many folk melodies. A cloud darkened the relationship between Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov when, seven years later, in 1880, the latter wrote an opera on the same theme which he was always to consider as his most accomplished work. Tchaikovsky vented his resentment in a letter to his editor: "Is it not disagreeable to you too to know that our subject has been stolen, that Lel is to sing other music on the same text, and that something intimate and precious has been snatched from me and used in another arrangement. I am so vexed that I could cry"! From this point, a heated rivalry developed between the two men.


hmmmmmmm....

interesting!


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Tchaikovsky to me is the same genre and class as Rimsky-Korsakov. People historically pretend they're not because Tchaikovsky is more immediately approachable to the farther Western medium by utilizing their language out of context--it's a general lack of knowledge of the Russian traditional genre. I have them both at the top of the Russians personally, but Rimsky a bit higher. 

Rimsky better form and imagination, Tchaikovsky better knowledge of drama and orchestration


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> As a music critic for various publications, Tchaikovsky gave a favorable reception to Rimsky-Korsakov's first symphonic works while noting some of their technical shortcomings: "There can be no doubt that this exceptionally talented man is destined to become one of the most admirable exponents of our art", he concluded. As a result of this criticism, Rimsky undertook various exercises in counterpoint: fugues, canons and chorales with figured bass, which he sent to Tchaikovsky to correct. The latter replied to him with a letter showing his regard: "I sincerely admire and bow down before your noble modesty as an artist and your astonishing strength of character. These countless exercises in counterpoint that you have written, the sixty fugues and the numerous other musical subtleties, all this is such an exploit for a man who, eight years ago, composed _Sadko_, that I would like to proclaim it before the whole world!"
> 
> In 1873 Tchaikovsky wrote the brilliant incidental music for Ostrovski's play _Snegurochka_ (The Snow Maiden) which included twenty symphonic and vocal numbers, featuring many folk melodies. A cloud darkened the relationship between Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov when, seven years later, in 1880, the latter wrote an opera on the same theme which he was always to consider as his most accomplished work. Tchaikovsky vented his resentment in a letter to his editor: "Is it not disagreeable to you too to know that our subject has been stolen, that Lel is to sing other music on the same text, and that something intimate and precious has been snatched from me and used in another arrangement. I am so vexed that I could cry"! From this point, a heated rivalry developed between the two men.


I knew the general outlines here but appreciate the comprehensive post


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I know that there was tension and distrust between Tchaikovsky and the The Mighty Five earlier on. The Mighty Five saw Tchaikovsky as too much of a cosmopolitan composer whose training and templates were from Western Europe; while Tchaikovsky saw the Five as undisciplined and weak in technique.

My understanding was that as Rimsky became a teacher and learned to become a more smooth and polished; Rimsky and Tchaikovsky became less opposed to one another and eventually became respected colleagues and friends. Conversely, Rimsky and his new circle of students and admirers probably came to see Tchiakovsky as just as Russian as they all were (if not more so) despite the Western-style frameworks to which we composed. 

I like Tchaikovsky and Rimsky. Both are great composers. While Tchaikovsky is one of the really great composers, Rimsky is no hack. While Rimsky is rightfully known for Russian Easter, Scheherazade, Bumblebee, etc. his operas deserve more of a chance here in the USA.


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