# Bach and the Beatific Vision



## MichaelNahari (Feb 3, 2019)

In my estimation, Bach's Chaconne is an attestation that the great master achieved visions of the Divine throughout his music. I share my favorite rendition of the piece, that of Jascha Heifetz. What opinions do you have on contemporary versions such as Vengerov's and Hahn's?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Someone once told me that there's a very good one from Heifetz from 1942, in CD 103 in The Complete Album Collection. I'm not a great fan of his approach to music normally, so I haven't pursued it, but if someone would upload it for me I'd be glad to check it out.


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## MichaelNahari (Feb 3, 2019)

Thank you for the reference


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## Schoenberg (Oct 15, 2018)

Personally I find Grumiaux to be the best (for not only the chaconne, but the rest of the sonatas and partitas).
I haven't listened too much to other recordings, but they generally all seem lacking.
Perhaps it's just because Grumiaux's ideas are closest to mine when it comes to interpreting the piece.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I imprinted on this piece on classical guitar, and it took me a while to appreciate it to the same extent on solo violin, (solo violin in general is not a favorite sonority of mine) but I just listened to Heifetz and Grumiaux, and it is starting to click now. The climax and faster passages sound amazing to me and I think better on violin (the opening harmonies are more clear on guitar though, they seem comparatively fragmented on violin). Anyway this is one of the greatest masterpieces no question but it seems like I haven't yet heard a version that is exactly what I'm looking for somehow. Perhaps I just need to continue to acclimate to the sound of it on violin, or maybe I want something closer to a HIP? I don't know.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

One thing I would say is that this chaconne is part of a bigger piece of music called the Partita for solo violin BWV 1004. It’s quite an integrated suite I think, and it’s well worth listening to the whole thing rather than a bleeding chunk.

I had to search the word “beatific” - apparently it means to do with bliss, which I suppose is a bit like happiness. In fact, there’s some evidence that the music in the chaconne in particular, and the partita in general, is based on traditional Christian mourning music, it’s a study in death. Whether this is compatible or not with a beatific interpretation I do not know, not being a believer.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> One thing I would say is that this chaconne is part of a bigger piece of music called the Partita for solo violin BWV 1004. It's quite an integrated suite I think, and it's well worth listening to the whole thing rather than a bleeding chunk.


Yes, this is a good point. I have listened to the Chaconne many times within the context of the suite. Personally my experience is that all of the movements from BWV 1004 work well together, or as stand alone pieces.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

My favorite recordings of the chaconne, and all of Bach's unaccompanied violin music, are Henryk Szeryng (modern violin) and Rachel Podger (baroque violin).

I think it works fine as a standalone piece. It's longer than the rest of the partita put together, I believe.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> I had to search the word "beatific" - apparently it means to do with bliss, which I suppose is a bit like happiness. In fact, there's some evidence that the music in the chaconne in particular, and the partita in general, is based on traditional Christian mourning music, it's a study in death. Whether this is compatible or not with a beatific interpretation I do not know, not being a believer.


Well, being a believer I would say that one can find a form of happiness in the comfort of God, even in times of grief. The second part of the Chaconne seems to perhaps be about finding this kind of comfort.

I will also say that the God I believe in predates Christianity, and that many previous belief systems were similar (featuring dying and resurrecting gods, symbolic of the sun moving through the zodiac and 'dying' at the Winter solstice, then being reborn). I believe in the core teachings of Christ, but much in the Holy Bible I think is misinformation. The stories in the Bible are allegorical. Christ was not a literal person, but a symbol. Christianity like so many other belief systems that predate it is astrotheological in basis. The old priest class knew this (as they do today). But do not want to empower people with true knowledge so give them mythology instead.

Time for the sheeple to wake up.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Grumiaux's version is tops for me, great balance between expression and the technical aspects. I also have the Mintz version. I found Hahn's completely plain and boring.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I have heard no performance as majestic and gripping as Joseph Szigeti's. His has nothing to do with "authenticity" or even beauty. The intensity he gathers and finally releases is almost frightening. "Beatific" is not a word I would apply to it; if God is here it's the God of Thunder.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I think that trumpet solo in "Penny Lane" is the best example of Bach and the Beatleific Vision.


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