# Cats vs. dogs



## Dim7

Feline supremacy does seem to be rampant here but let's see what the poll tells us.


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## Sloe

I don´t have to go out with cats for a walk.


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## Art Rock

Dogs, by far. I like walking ours, no matter what the weather is.


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## Cosmos

My friends tell me I have the personality of a cat...funny enough, I much prefer dogs. They're friendlier, active, put a smile on my face, and yeah walking is the best.


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## Abraham Lincoln

CAT










Look at how beautiful this creature is










The picture of true grace and beauty right here










Confident stride










Me as a kitty, probably

And who could forget these guys -










And that's not all I've got to say. The forum won't allow me more than five pictures per post, so I've just gotta make do with what I have I suppose.


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## sospiro

Cats.

I don't trust dogs. I've twice been badly bitten when the owners have insisted that the dog 'won't harm you, just wants to say hello' and these incidents have occurred in public places. There must be something I'm doing which antagonises dogs but I have no idea what it is; I don't attempt to touch dogs and I don't stare at them but I'm annoyed that the onus is on me to behave in a certain way.


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## Pugg

None, allergic to both


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## TurnaboutVox

I like both but have never been in a position to keep a dog in suitable circumstances, having lived all my life in a succession of four cities. We've had one, sometimes two, cats over the last 30 years. They are very easy to look after and a simple pleasure to have around the house.

Mrs. Vox intends to get a dog if we retire to the country and have somewhere to walk it. She had a nice lurcher as a teenager, whom I knew when she was an 'old lady'. That will be fine with me, as long as it gets on with our present cat Arthur (see my profile page).


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## Dr Johnson

Why no wombats?


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## Abraham Lincoln

Dr Johnson said:


> Why no wombats?


Because they are neither cats nor dogs.


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## Guest

I like some dogs but wouldn't fancy the daily walking around these grim streets. Plus the poop scooping, I don't think so. And some dogs do the nasty stuff; our friend's dog has been attacked twice whilst out walking him.

So yeah I'm a cat person. Till I can get my hands on a red panda...


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## Dim7

dogen said:


> I like some dogs but wouldn't fancy the daily walking around these grim streets. Plus the poop scooping, I don't think so. And some dogs do the nasty stuff; our friend's dog has been attacked twice whilst out walking him.
> 
> So yeah I'm a cat person. Till I can get my hands on a red panda...


The irony..........


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## Guest

Dim7 said:


> The irony..........


Indeed.

What? a husky perchance? or chow?


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## Dim7

dogen said:


> Indeed.
> 
> What? a husky perchance? or chow?


The username...........


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## bestellen

I like dogs overall better because they are cute and protect you (sometimes).


I like cats still though because they are so damn cute!


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## Manxfeeder

Cats have the advantage because they take care of themselves. One of my cats got lost and sustained himself for three months in the woods before we found him. Dogs are great, but cats are low-maintenance.


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## brotagonist

I am very fond of cats. They are very affectionate, but don't slobber all over you. They don't follow you step for step and like a bit of private time, too, just like me. They don't expect your undivided attention 24/7. They are not noisy. They are relaxed. You don't have to take them out for walks a few times a day. They are not a lot of work.

I like dogs, too. A neighbour has a golden Labrador and he is adorable. He is nearly fully grown now, so he is no longer lapping and licking. He is still playful, but he's more relaxed now. But, no matter the age, dogs like to be the centre of attention and they are insistent about it: a nudge of the muzzle, a whip of the tail, constant commotion. They are work. And they bark. And they knock things over. And they're clumsy. As much as I like a nice dog—not those little toy yappers that women find so adorable—I couldn't live in the same house with one.


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## Kivimees

We have both at home - but it's the dog that shows me greater appreciation.


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## Guest

Hang on...the dogs are winning...


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## mstar

I have a dog. I chose cat. 

Without hesitation.


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## Abraham Lincoln

dogen said:


> Hang on...the dogs are winning...


The cats will catch up soon, I predict.


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## MrTortoise

Dogs, like cats as well but if I had to choose, dogs. This topic reminds me of a friend who was in a master class with Ned Rorem who was trying to explain the differences between French and German styles. One of his comparisons was 'Dogs are German and cats are French'. That sorta makes sense to me.


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## Lucifer Saudade

I LOVE dogs (who doesn't?), but I have way more personal experience with cats, and I've known more than my fair share of unfathomably annoying canine. Sometimes I feel like I would choose a great dog over a cat, but that depends really. So for this thread... 1 vote for our graceful, majestic independent feline friends.


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## elgar's ghost

I like dogs (my uncle used to keep Boxers) but if I were to have a pet it would be a cat as I've always find them more fascinating, even the one we used to have years ago who didn't really like anyone unless she could hear the rattle of the Go-Cat box or wanted the door opening. In a nearby street there is a really friendly black cat who never fails to trot up and say hello if he/she's out and about - that used to cheer me up if I was on my way to work!


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## Abraham Lincoln

MrTortoise said:


> Dogs, like cats as well but if I had to choose, dogs. This topic reminds me of a friend who was in a master class with Ned Rorem who was trying to explain the differences between French and German styles. One of his comparisons was 'Dogs are German and cats are French'. That sorta makes sense to me.


That also reminds me of a comparison that was basically "Dogs are men and cats are women".


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## Dim7

Abraham Lincoln said:


> That also reminds me of a comparison that was basically "Dogs are men and cats are women".


Dogs are beta men and cats are alpha women.


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## Guest

I see a cat
I smile.


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## Dim7

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Dr Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why no wombats?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are neither cats nor dogs.
Click to expand...

And if they were either they would be included in either of the two options. But maybe Dr Johnson is implying that wombats are both cats and dogs at the same time, so there would need to be a third option.


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## Dr Johnson

Dim7 said:


> And if they were either they would be included in either of the two options. But maybe Dr Johnson is implying that wombats are both cats and dogs at the same time, so there would need to be a third option.


No. I was just being silly.

Sorry.


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## Ingélou

I adore both, and I've kept both. At present I have no animals because it's simpler when either my mother or my husband might have a health problem & I might have to be out at the hospital. I admit, the longer I go on without pets, the more reluctant I feel to think seriously about getting another. I'm a slob at housework, but the house looks more civilised these days after I've done nothing than it used to do in my pet days.

I prefer dogs for their love & possibilities, but if I ever do get an animal in the future, it will probably be a cat. They are easier.

PS ^^^ Hail, Cham! What an attractive person - not only enjoys being silly, but doesn't mind admitting it.


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## TurnaboutVox

Abraham Lincoln said:


> That also reminds me of a comparison that was basically "Dogs are men and *cats are women*".


I related this to Arthur. He told me to tell you "Men are pussies. Women are tigers!"


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## Guest

Dr Johnson said:


> No. I was just being silly.


I hope you're not setting a precedent.


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## brotagonist

Abraham Lincoln said:


> That also reminds me of a comparison that was basically "Dogs are men and cats are women".


They're graceful, so it is easy to make that mistake, but it couldn't be more wrong! A male cat is very male and you know it, if you live with one. I have had one of each, not at the same time; my sister has both presently: Hilary is a girl and James is a boy-and boy, do you know it!


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## Flamme

Plants?


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## Strange Magic

The ideal compromise for those like myself who like both creatures, is to own a Maine **** Cat-- the cat that thinks (sometimes) it's a dog. Large, handsome, friendly, very talkative (responds with chirrups), likes to go for walks with a member of its support staff around the property, will groom your eyebrows, and likes to explore high places (this is not doglike behavior). They generally find the world much to their liking, expect to be liked and treated well, and are very rarely disappointed.


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## Lucifer Saudade

Dim7 said:


> Dogs are beta men and cats are alpha women.


Cats are the true alpha on the internet. He don't take **** from nobody
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e4/90/41/e490414cdc5fda3985ac1d25701be61c.gif


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## Guest

What about chows? Don't they think they're a cat?

(Wiki:"some owners have attributed a cat-like personality to the Chow Chow.")


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## Flamme




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## Abraham Lincoln

brotagonist said:


> A male cat is very male and you know it, if you live with one.


Until they get fixed.


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## Balthazar

Dogs for sure. Weimaraners and Schnauzers are great. But they don't show up in the shelter too often...

The only cats I've known that led me to entertain the idea of keeping one were a Burmese and a Russian Blue. But they were extremely dog-like.


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## Krummhorn

We have two cats ... one is an elderly Maine **** male and the other is a young Turkish Angora male (both neutered long ago). 

Cats work out best for our lifestyle - both of ours are strictly indoor cats. Both have unique personalities and are as much part of our family as our grown children.


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## ArtMusic

Dogs are more intelligent and more loyal. So I voted dog.


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## clavichorder

ArtMusic said:


> Dogs are more intelligent and more loyal. So I voted dog.


No ArtMusic! Why did you open this can of...Cats and Dogs have their own incomparable merits in terms of intelligence. Forget comparing two very different styles of animal intelligence.


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## Lukecash12

This was my gorgeous friend Ruby:









I'm a little despondent to share that she died this last Easter because of a stroke.

She was a dachsund mix; I've had nothing but dachsunds and dachsund mixes all of my life because their personalities are always so intriguing and compatible with my own, not to mention that I find them entirely too adorable.


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## ArtMusic

clavichorder said:


> No ArtMusic! Why did you open this can of...Cats and Dogs have their own incomparable merits in terms of intelligence. Forget comparing two very different styles of animal intelligence.


Just based on my experience of having a cat previously and a dog previously. I agree they are intelligent in their own ways but I find a dog more engaging if I could put it that way. It's almost like comparing composer X with composer Y


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> Dogs are more intelligent and more loyal. So I voted dog.


You throw a stick away from a dog: the dog retrieves it.
You throw a stick away from a cat: you threw it, so if you want it back...


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## Guest

Until I got married, I was more of a dog person, but my wife had had two cats, and I began to fall under their charms. Both have since passed away, and we adopted two sisters from a shelter about 18 months ago. Here they are the day we brought them home (Lucy and Ethel):










and today:










Dog are perhaps more unconditionally loving and loyal, but our cats are quite cuddly and follow us around like dogs! Plus, as others have said, they are far more independent and lower maintenance than dogs.


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## TurnaboutVox

According to recent-ish research, cats and dogs are wired differently for social communication (dogs, like us, seem to attach to individuals and groups, cats more to a familiar place). Cats - I can vouch for this from experience - don't greatly like to be made to live with unrelated felines, though they seem to be able to get along with people and non-feline animals. They can certainly tolerate to live with close genetic relatives.

The cats I have known are almost entirely focused around their own needs and comfort, whereas (securely attached) dogs, like humans, have a capacity to empathise with other individuals to attend to the needs of the social group. I have never felt that my cats could or were interested in understanding my state of mind/affect, though if their needs coincide with mine, they're quite happy to cooperate. Of course the upside of this is that if our interests don't coincide for a while (us = need to go to work, cats = want a warm static lap) they're not that fussed and will settle down alone.

They're different species, with different brain wiring, attachment behaviour and optimal survival strategies, is all. I'm not sure that this necessarily implies anything about intelligence - again, a dog can and will turn this to social purposes whilst a cat by and large won't.

I have sometimes wondered what effect a very long period of domestication will have on cat intelligence and social communication, as presumably in that setting both capacities might give a reproductive advantage to a female cat at least.


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## clavichorder

We lost our black cat Raven some months earlier, so now we only have Simon our part Siamese tomcat. We also have a very large, collie-sized shelty named Max. Simon and Raven used to actually get along. Simon appeared to tolerate poor Raven's presence while Raven clearly loved Simon, would sleep on top of Simon who is by nature a very placid and tolerant cat. Raven would see Simon and he would perk up and move over to rub against Simon, who would express indifference at the most usually. Sometimes Simon would gently bite Raven and flick his tail, and I would not call it playful, just a gentle indication of annoyance and not to trouble him further. Sometimes Raven would understand, sometimes not, and then Simon would tackle him. Raven became somewhat more assertive as he got older, but they never came to blows, clearly knowing they had to coexist peacefully, Raven probably halfway thinking Simon was his mother or something.

We think we lost Raven to coyotes in the neighborhood. Simon seems to have noticed not having him around, because he is much more talkative these days, always meowing with a sad sounding meow when he wants out. I wouldn't call it grief directly over Raven, but sort of a confusion from a change of things.

I really think cats who live together in pairs, benefit from each other's presence. Especially if they knew each other from when they were relatively young. Simon was 2 years old when we found a 5 or 6 week old Raven(we had lost a 5 month old kitten Pearl, who was hit by a car, so Raven was the unintended replacement). When we first introduced Raven to Simon, Simon appeared not to notice him for a very long time, which was really strange, like he didn't want to accept the truth of another young cat. When he finally did notice him, his eyes dilated and he clearly seemed unhappy about it. But when Raven grew up to be an independent and gentle but slightly messed up(we think he was weened too early from his stray mother, because he was found abandoned in a parking lot) and overly shy cat, they learned to coexist. I definitely think they were comfortable in the same house, because they would frequently be at the door together wanting in, eating together, ect.


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## mmsbls

I've lived longer with cats than with dogs, but I strongly prefer dogs. I will admit that I have a prejudice since I'm rather allergic to cats. Basically everything I desire in a pet I find preferable in dogs. The fact that dogs require more maintenance effects my decision about as much as the fact that my children required even more maintenance than dogs.


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## Strange Magic

Both of our two current cats are half Maine ****, and display to a certain extent the Maine **** positive interest in my presence. They will search for me, look into my face, chirrup. One snuffles in my ear; the other pats me gently on my face with a very soft paw while I am asleep to ensure that I am still well and not comatose. One licks my hand and chews thoughtfully but painlessly on my fingers, and allows me full access to his belly for scratching. And the purring.....


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## Abraham Lincoln

I'm surprised that this thread didn't generate a huge spitstorm like other Cats vs Dogs discussions I've chanced upon on the net.


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## Lukecash12

mmsbls said:


> I've lived longer with cats than with dogs, but I strongly prefer dogs. I will admit that I have a prejudice since I'm rather allergic to cats. Basically everything I desire in a pet I find preferable in dogs. The fact that dogs require more maintenance effects my decision about as much as the fact that my children required even more maintenance than dogs.


I couldn't agree more. The reason I like dogs is that I often long for that kind of companionship, that there is something that often wants my attention and I am happy to oblige. Missing Ruby pretty bad right now.


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## Guest

Lukecash12 said:


> I couldn't agree more. The reason I like dogs is that I often long for that kind of companionship, that there is something that often wants my attention and I am happy to oblige. Missing Ruby pretty bad right now.


The missing doesn't stop, you can only come to live with the loss and cherish the memories.


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## Guest

Both. Our dog died last June. Looking forward to getting another this spring. In the meantime, our cat, 15yo, remains very loyal.


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## Dim7

Dogen prefers cats over dogs, I have a cat in my avatar yet I prefer dogs... Life is so confusing! Also I think that while dim7 chords are fine, they are hardly my favorite type of chords...


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## violadude

I like dogs better because when I get a pet I want to feel like it loves me and I rarely get that feeling from cats.


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## starthrower

violadude said:


> I like dogs better because when I get a pet I want to feel like it loves me and I rarely get that feeling from cats.


You have to give them alot of love as kittens. Hold them and hug them. The two I have now are very loveable. But cats, contrary to the assumptions of many people, are pretty high maintenance if you're going to treat them well. Lots of litter box changing, and they scratch the hell out of the furniture and woodwork. And they love to puke all over the carpet. And every other day they decide they hate their food, so don't buy 10 cans of the same flavor.


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## clavichorder

violadude said:


> I like dogs better because when I get a pet I want to feel like it loves me and I rarely get that feeling from cats.


A lot of that is perception. I get that feeling from my cat. And this agrees with what Starthrower says, because I raised him very lovingly from 10 weeks old. He's now 12 years old.


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## Richannes Wrahms

violadude said:


> I like dogs better because when I get a pet I want to feel like it loves me and I rarely get that feeling from cats.


It's all an illusion anyway.


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## clavichorder

Richannes Wrahms said:


> It's all an illusion anyway.


Love between humans is arguably just as illusory, if you meant to take it that direction.

(I don't really believe that)


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## Chronochromie

I like both, but never kept either. Although cats seem as if they require less work, and I'm lazy, so...


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## Bellinilover

I've been a major cat-lover since age 8 and since then have had three cats (one at a time). If you want to know the truth, I'm not very fond of dogs.


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## Flamme

Balthazar said:


> Dogs for sure. Weimaraners and Schnauzers are great. But they don't show up in the shelter too often...
> 
> The only cats I've known that led me to entertain the idea of keeping one were a Burmese and a *Russian Blue.* But they were extremely dog-like.


I heard Russian blues are very aristo in behaviour and they dont make mess or leave to much hair everywhere...Siamese, those that i ve encountered at least seem to be pretty arrogant and reserved and even sinister in a way, like in that cartoon


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## ArtMusic

My favorite type of dog is the Siberian Husky and the Alaskan Malamute. Intelligent, loyal and very pretty.


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## Sloe

I like really big cats.
I would like to have a cat that was as big as a big dog.


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## Abraham Lincoln

Sloe said:


> I like really big cats.
> I would like to have a cat that was as big as a big dog.












This is a Maine **** cat.


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## Guest

That's one big tigger!!!


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## Strange Magic

Many, many years ago, Maine **** cats were called "shaggy cats" in their native homeland in rural Maine. One would advertise them as being available for sale or otherwise by putting out a hand-lettered sign on the front lawn that would just say Shaggy Cats.


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## EdwardBast

I don't keep pets but visitors to my little slice of paradise have brought cats along and I vastly prefer them to dogs because of the ease of maintenance. A recent frequent visitor has been a Persian polydactyl (lots of extra toes), who will not sit in your lap but will spend lots of time beside you. Out here, cats must be kept indoors because Fishers, which are big, vicious weasels, prey on them, when they can't find a porcupine to kill, and on small dogs as well.


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## elgar's ghost

A question - can house cats remain in a kitten-like state assuming they remain unfamiliar with what can be life's harder lessons outdoors (the instinct to hunt, learning to avoiding dangers such as vehicles and dogs, interaction/rivalry with other cats etc.)?


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Cats are hilarious, acting like they own the place . Makes them quite amusing.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Abraham Lincoln said:


> This is a Maine **** cat.


Which one of them's the cat?


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## HaydnBearstheClock

ArtMusic said:


> My favorite type of dog is the Siberian Husky and the Alaskan Malamute. Intelligent, loyal and very pretty.


Yeah, huskies are beautiful dogs - very wolf-like too.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I'm surprised that this thread didn't generate a huge spitstorm like other Cats vs Dogs discussions I've chanced upon on the net.


It's like apples and oranges, you can't really argue much, both are great in their own ways.


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## Guest

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Cats are hilarious, acting like they own the place . Makes them quite amusing.


I don't understand; "_like_ they own the place"?!


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## Abraham Lincoln

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Which one of them's the cat?


The one being carried?


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## DeepR

Cats, all the way. I generally dislike dogs and I love cats. 

I don't want to bond with an animal and I don't want it to be all dependent and obedient. Dogs, the poor, silly creatures that they are for letting themselves be dominated by apes. Some of them look hideous and filthy too.

I love cats for their grace, independence, stubbornness. They are still partially wild creatures and have only decided to stick with us for its benefits. Pet inside, wild outside. Best of both worlds. Cats can make me laugh like no other animal. And the big wild cats are among the most magnificent creatures on this planet.

All hail our feline masters!


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## Strange Magic

As we recall, Doctor Johnson, the compiler of the famous Dictionary, had a cat named Hodge, of whom he was quite fond. Here is Boswell, in a famous passage, describing the Doctor communing with his cat Hodge:

Nor would it be just, under this head, to omit the fondness which he showed for animals which he had taken under his protection. I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his cat: for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants having that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am, unluckily, one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in the room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr. Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend smiling and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail; and when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, "Why yes, Sir, but I have had cats whom I liked better than this;" and then as if perceiving Hodge to be out of countenance, adding, "but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat indeed."


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## Guest




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## Strange Magic

The story goes that a dog will look around itself and observe that another being provides it with food, shelter, affection, entertainment, and says to itself: "This other being must be a god!"

A cat looks about itself, observes exactly the same phenomena, and says to itself, "I must be a god!"


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## Dr Johnson

Strange Magic said:


> As we recall, Doctor Johnson, the compiler of the famous Dictionary, had a cat named Hodge, of whom he was quite fond. Here is Boswell, in a famous passage, describing the Doctor communing with his cat Hodge:
> 
> Nor would it be just, under this head, to omit the fondness which he showed for animals which he had taken under his protection. I never shall forget the indulgence with which he treated Hodge, his cat: for whom he himself used to go out and buy oysters, lest the servants having that trouble should take a dislike to the poor creature. I am, unluckily, one of those who have an antipathy to a cat, so that I am uneasy when in the room with one; and I own, I frequently suffered a good deal from the presence of this same Hodge. I recollect him one day scrambling up Dr. Johnson's breast, apparently with much satisfaction, while my friend smiling and half-whistling, rubbed down his back, and pulled him by the tail; and when I observed he was a fine cat, saying, "Why yes, Sir, but I have had cats whom I liked better than this;" and then as if perceiving Hodge to be out of countenance, adding, "but he is a very fine cat, a very fine cat indeed."


There is a statue of Hodge outside Johnson's house in Gough Square (now a museum).










A few years ago I went to visit the house. When I came out I was standing looking at Hodge's statue. As I did so a group of foreign students led by an English chap (probably a student making a few bob) came up to the statue. The English guide said something like, "This is Hodge, Dr Johnson's cat. He is an English folk hero."

I was going to interrupt and tell these foreigners that nobody would have heard of Hodge unless they had read Boswell but in the end I didn't.


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## Guest

Today I shall assert my authority. I shall sit on my side of the sofa earlier than is usual. Thus I won't have to sit on the floor. That'll show him who's boss.


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## trazom

Also with dogs, there's the unfortunate burden of having to attend to another animal's basic emotional needs besides your own and sometimes they need walks which means, getting dressed, going outside and occasionally talking to people and making eye contact. Some days I would rather be a troglodytic lump and not have some needy creature whining and pawing at my door trying to get me to go outside and do things that I don't want to do.


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## Guest

Now really, who could resist these cuties?


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## MoonlightSonata

I have a cat and a dog. The dog is completely brainless and the cat is a sociopath.

Based on this, I vote chickens.

Except I didn't. Because that's not an option.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Kontrapunctus said:


> Now really, who could resist these cuties?
> 
> https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn....=d7889bb626d5233ef5ee7a27602a3975&oe=573A7A31


That reminded me of this:


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## Guest

MoonlightSonata said:


> I have a cat and a dog. The dog is completely brainless and the cat is a sociopath.
> 
> Based on this, I vote chickens.
> 
> Except I didn't. Because that's not an option.


You say "sociopath" like that's a bad thing.


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## Bellinilover

Flamme said:


> I heard Russian blues are very aristo in behaviour and they dont make mess or leave to much hair everywhere...Siamese, those that i ve encountered at least seem to be pretty arrogant and reserved and even sinister in a way, like in that cartoon


Russian blues are so beautiful! If I could only afford it, I'd buy one someday.


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## Ingélou

I fancy the Abyssinian cat. So gorgeous!


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## Bellinilover

Ingélou said:


> I fancy the Abyssinian cat. So gorgeous!


My current cat is half-Abyssinian. I don't have a photo of her to upload, but she definitely has the Abyssinian ears.


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## Abraham Lincoln

Cats in general also remind me more of Beethoven.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Mozart: Corgi
Kromfohrlander: violadude


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## elgar's ghost

I like the British Shorthair - they sometimes look quite wise.


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## hagridindminor

Cats are a risk, you could end up getting one which hates being anywhere near you.

Any dog is guaranteered to be a cuddler


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## Abraham Lincoln

elgars ghost said:


> I like the British Shorthair - they sometimes look quite wise.


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## Ilarion

I love both dogs and cats - And I have both - and they are so close as friends - no rivalry whatsoever...


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## Piwikiwi




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## EarthBoundRules

Everybody's just going to say whatever type of pet they've owned in the past, so I'll jump on the bandwagon and say cats.


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## Sloe

hagridindminor said:


> Cats are a risk, you could end up getting one which hates being anywhere near you.
> 
> Any dog is guaranteered to be a cuddler


There are much more problems with aggressive dogs.
I have never had a cat that have hated being anywhere near me.


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## georgedelorean

Nothing better than coming home and being licked to death by one of those big balls of fur known as dogs. I like cats just fine, however I've always been preferential to dogs as I find their more friendly loving natures to be more of what I align with.


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## Brahmsian Colors

My wife and I have had three cats and three dogs. She pefers dogs, I prefer cats. At the moment, we have neither one nor the other. We no longer feel like dealing with the monetary costs or the responsibilities.


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## Judith

Didn't vote as love both equally. They all have their individual personalities and ways


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Happy reunion here! Our cat "Snapp" home again after over 72 hours in a neighbourhood garage. He is our baby, soon 3 human years old.


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## Tchaikov6

How are dogs losing! I'd choose them any day over cats.


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## Pat Fairlea

Cats.

Cats live with you on their terms.

Dogs are just too needy.

Our cat is very old, totally deaf, a bit arthritic, and she still puts the neighbourhood dogs in their place.


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Dogs, definitely! I've had Irish terriers since I was a teenager. Wonderful dogs: clever, energetic, friendly, and with a definite sense of humor. I'm indifferent to cats - don't dislike them, but I'm nonplussed by the internet's obsession with them.


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## Annied

I have a background of living with full or part Siamese. Even so, when 2 already elderly Siamese cats moved in with me in the very early noughties, I didn't know the half of what I was taking on. They managed (with a little bit of help from me), to produce 2 books, the profits from which went to PDSA, a British veterinary charity. That the profits went to charity didn't go down at all well with them as they had their own plans for the money. As a result, they unleashed numerous scams on their unsuspecting public. http://www.catsup.co.uk/scam.htm

The pair of them lived to the ripe old ages of 20½ and 19½ and, one way and another, brought an unbelievable amount of joy and fun to my life.


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## Azol

Voted for this one... (photo taken a couple of days before)


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

i voted for this one


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## Becca

Manxfeeder said:


> Dogs are great, but cats are low-maintenance.


Clearly spoken by someone who has never been owned by a Siamese cat


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

The cats are giving the dogs a licking


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## Klassik

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The cats are giving the dogs a licking


I think it's pretty well-known that most TCers don't like dogs.


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## Guest

Klassik said:


> I think it's pretty well-known that most TCers don't like dogs.


That road is closed.


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## Guest

Annied said:


> I have a background of living with full or part Siamese. Even so, when 2 already elderly Siamese cats moved in with me in the very early noughties, I didn't know the half of what I was taking on. They managed (with a little bit of help from me), to produce 2 books, the profits from which went to PDSA, a British veterinary charity. That the profits went to charity didn't go down at all well with them as they had their own plans for the money. As a result, they unleashed numerous scams on their unsuspecting public. http://www.catsup.co.uk/scam.htm
> The pair of them lived to the ripe old ages of 20½ and 19½ and, one way and another, brought an unbelievable amount of joy and fun to my life.


Well done for all the money that you raised for the PDSA. (I'm in the cats camp).

PS Have you been known to read anything by Tom Cox?


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## Capeditiea

cats! are far more superior. :3 plus i happen to be an aspiring crazy cat lady.  so there.


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## Klassik

Capeditiea said:


> i happen to be an aspiring crazy cat lady.


Oh no, we can't let that happen.


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## Capeditiea

Klassik said:


> Oh no, we can't let that happen.


but then i could official compose and perform the first Cat Symphony! which would be amazing and cute at the same time.


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## Bulldog

I like cats; I love dogs. They are loyal, understanding, fun and able to defend the territory. Also, their pee smells much better than a cat's. 

Just a couple of days ago, my dog discovered a cat who had invaded our back yard. The chasing began, and the cat climbed quickly up a utility pole. My dog kept jumping up the pole, but couldn't get anywhere near the cat. Instead of waiting for my dog to move on to other activities, he/she tried getting down the pole but fell most of the way to the ground. I don't know what happened to that cat, but my dog just moved on to other activities including guarding the fence. She's a great dog - kills birds, kills rodents, beats up other dogs and guards the property day and night. Also, she loves little children. The only humans she hates are those who are afraid of her. 

Yes, dogs are high maintenance compared to cats, but they are worth the work.


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## Guest

Maybe you know as little about cats as I do dogs, but I don't get the maintenance thing. Do you just mean relatively or do you think cats are "low maintenance" ?

(I realise cat people and dog people should never talk to each other, but I'm an eternally naive optimist)


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## Tennessee Dave

Dogs by a wide margin in our home.


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## Bulldog

dogen said:


> Maybe you know as little about cats as I do dogs, but I don't get the maintenance thing. Do you just mean relatively or do you think cats are "low maintenance" ?
> 
> (I realise cat people and dog people should never talk to each other, but I'm an eternally naive optimist)


I've had both cats and dogs - know them well. Dogs crave love and attention more frequently than cats who are more independent.

One of my current dogs demands a belly rub every few hours. She will be all over me until she gets her rub. I think she would love a day at the spa with my wife.


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## Guest

Now there's an image. Or several.


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## ZJovicic

For me it's complicated. I never owned either of them. As a kid I had strong preference for cats. They seemed simply nicer, gentler, more graceful and less violent. I was also somewhat afraid of dogs because I was once bitten and several times barked at angrily by some unfriendly dogs... so I am kind of on edge when I am around dogs, even now, perhaps to a lesser extent. Then I read about toxoplasmosis that's common in cats and that can mess with your head, so I decided that perhaps owning cat wouldn't be too wise idea either.
Aesthetically speaking I prefer dogs. There are some breeds of dogs that are really absolutely beautiful.
Behaviorally, over time I've come to prefer dogs too, but not all types of dogs. What I prefer are dogs that are smart, playful and usually non-violent. I also prefer larger dogs and I think most of the time they have nicer temperament.
If I decided to get a pet, which I probably won't soon, because I live in a small flat, it would probably be a dog, and a larger breed, perhaps Labrador or golden retriever, or collie.


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## Capeditiea

ZJovicic said:


> For me it's complicated. I never owned either of them. As a kid I had strong preference for cats. They seemed simply nicer, gentler, more graceful and less violent. I was also somewhat afraid of dogs because I was once bitten and several times barked at angrily by some unfriendly dogs... so I am kind of on edge when I am around dogs, even now, perhaps to a lesser extent. Then I read about toxoplasmosis that's common in cats and that can mess with your head, so I decided that perhaps owning cat wouldn't be too wise idea either.
> Aesthetically speaking I prefer dogs. There are some breeds of dogs that are really absolutely beautiful.
> Behaviorally, over time I've come to prefer dogs too, but not all types of dogs. What I prefer are dogs that are smart, playful and usually non-violent. I also prefer larger dogs and I think most of the time they have nicer temperament.
> If I decided to get a pet, which I probably won't soon, because I live in a small flat, it would probably be a dog, and a larger breed, perhaps Labrador or golden retriever, or collie.


my goddess, you are morbid. :O toxoplasmosis is scary as hell...

*cries, i shall grant ye the award of creeping me out the most.  feel special.


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## Room2201974

You lookin at me? Are you lookin at me?


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## Capeditiea

Room2201974 said:


> View attachment 103691
> 
> 
> You lookin at me? Are you lookin at me?


cute little kitty.


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## Capeditiea

in related news, a chick decided it was a great idea to be a cat burgler... in the next town over. but the cat decided it was probably not a great idea to enter into the car with this lady and fled. :O that lady should be eaten by cats.


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## David Phillips

The cat is one of the very few pets allowed to wander where it will without being imprisoned. If you feed it well and provide it with love and kindness it will always come home to you.


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## Harmonie

Dogs for sure! Especially since English and French bulldogs entered my family. There's no turning back.


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## Open Book

MoonlightSonata said:


> I have a cat and a dog. The dog is completely brainless and the cat is a sociopath.


Is your first name Jon?


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## Jacck

the dogs have toxocara and ascaris and cats have toxoplasma


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## CnC Bartok

I love and adore my cat. Could never feel the same about a dog.

I did once consider getting a beagle though. At least then I wouldn't be the only smoker in the house. :devil:


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## starthrower

Cats are great if you want your furniture trashed, barf stains on the carpet, and smelly litter boxes. That's why I have two! But no more after these cross the rainbow bridge.


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## KenOC

ZJovicic said:


> ...If I decided to get a pet, which I probably won't soon, because I live in a small flat, it would probably be a dog, and a larger breed, perhaps Labrador or golden retriever, or collie.


We also live in an apartment (flat) and have found that an ideal "indoor" large breed is a standard poodle. They typically weigh 70-75 pounds at maturity but are careful in the way they move around and don't tend to bark a lot. They should get out maybe twice a day to be walked or let run at a leash-free dog park. They are quite intelligent - we have to spell some words around ours because it knows what the words mean, but hasn't yet mastered spelling!

Above all they are friendly, not snappish, and don't pose any threat to small children or others. And they are one of the few breeds that doesn't shed! However, unless you find a rescue dog, a pup may be rather expensive.


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## Luchesi

I've had 12 dogs and 8 cats over the years. No more, because I feel so bad when I have to leave them home alone. What goes through their minds? Locked in a house, not knowing when or if I'll return. It's possible that it isn't hard on them. I don't know..

Now I have my garden plants. I'm growing a variety of trees and assorted wild flowers for bees and butterflies. ..All they need is a drip system (in this desert) and to be somewhat protected over winter.


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## starthrower

^^^
That's the reason I don't want anymore pets. I want be able to travel without subjecting my cats to a kennel. They would freak out. Right now I can only get away for two days at a time. And spoiled cats will let you know when they feel neglected. They start peeing in unsuspected places.


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## Guest

The option, "hate both" is conspicuously absent from the poll.


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## Merl

I've had both but far prefer cats. Currently have 3 and the house wouldn't be the same without them
Furniture would last longer though.


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## Sloe

Abraham Lincoln said:


> This is a Maine **** cat.


This is more of the type of cat I want:






Then cats and dogs can be really good friends.


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## jegreenwood

Allergic to cats.


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## starthrower

My male cat brought home a baby opossum a couple of weeks ago. Amazingly it was not dead or mortally wounded. We kept it in the pet carrier for a day and fed it blueberries, seeds and cat food. Yup, they love the stuff! The little fella regained his strength so we released him the following night. Hopefully he was able to find his mother who has been out in the yard after dark.


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## pianozach

clavichorder said:


> We lost our black cat Raven some months earlier, so now we only have Simon our part Siamese tomcat. We also have a very large, collie-sized shelty named Max. Simon and Raven used to actually get along. Simon appeared to tolerate poor Raven's presence while Raven clearly loved Simon, would sleep on top of Simon who is by nature a very placid and tolerant cat. Raven would see Simon and he would perk up and move over to rub against Simon, who would express indifference at the most usually. Sometimes Simon would gently bite Raven and flick his tail, and I would not call it playful, just a gentle indication of annoyance and not to trouble him further. Sometimes Raven would understand, sometimes not, and then Simon would tackle him. Raven became somewhat more assertive as he got older, but they never came to blows, clearly knowing they had to coexist peacefully, Raven probably halfway thinking Simon was his mother or something.
> 
> We think we lost Raven to coyotes in the neighborhood. Simon seems to have noticed not having him around, because he is much more talkative these days, always meowing with a sad sounding meow when he wants out. I wouldn't call it grief directly over Raven, but sort of a confusion from a change of things.
> 
> I really think cats who live together in pairs, benefit from each other's presence. Especially if they knew each other from when they were relatively young. Simon was 2 years old when we found a 5 or 6 week old Raven(we had lost a 5 month old kitten Pearl, who was hit by a car, so Raven was the unintended replacement). When we first introduced Raven to Simon, Simon appeared not to notice him for a very long time, which was really strange, like he didn't want to accept the truth of another young cat. When he finally did notice him, his eyes dilated and he clearly seemed unhappy about it. But when Raven grew up to be an independent and gentle but slightly messed up(we think he was weened too early from his stray mother, because he was found abandoned in a parking lot) and overly shy cat, they learned to coexist. I definitely think they were comfortable in the same house, because they would frequently be at the door together wanting in, eating together, ect.


We adopted two brothers about 14 years ago from some friends. The wife discovered she was allergic to cats, so they had to go. We were actively seeking two siblings so it worked out great for us.

Physically the two cats were of similar build, although Coal is almost completely black, and Ginger was an orange guy (These were the names that the cats came with . . . although Ginger still didn't seem to know his name for awhile . . . it seemed he was a slow learner)

Personality-wise they were quite different: Coal was the smart one, and Ginger the loveable one. Over the years Ginger started putting on the poundage. I would joke that he was a "Chonka Chonka" class cat when he got up to 18 pounds. He just kept putting on more weight and graduated to "Good Lawd He's A-Comin'" when he reached 21 pounds. He wore it well, though. Both cats were large.

Last year Ginger got very sick, and we thought we were going to lose him. We took him to a vet that a friend recommended - he gave us the bad news that Ginger might not even last the weekend, but offered to come in the next day, a Saturday, to do some exploratory surgery. He was rude, brusque, and expensive. They really didn't do anything other than shave a large swath of his fur in front of his neck.

We brought him home to die in peace and comfort, but on Monday we decided to get a second opinion. Vet #2 recommended a "Specialist", but did give Ginger some antibiotics. The Specialist suspected cancer, and again suggested expensive exploratory surgery. We again brought him home and he recovered nicely in three or four days.

We suspect he had a very bad ear infection. We stopped "free feeding" them as Ginger's weight seemed alarming (and Coal was up to 18 pounds himself). Ginger lost weight very slowly, and after a year was down to 18 pounds. Then he started dropping weight, then stopped eating. He lost 6 pounds in two months. It was around this time we finally realized that Ginger was almost stone deaf. He could hear really loud sounds, and some high frequencies, but mostly deaf. Maybe it was the ear infection, but it's also possible that he'd been hearing-deficient for a long time . . . in fact, we suspect it may have been why he had trouble learning his name in the first place. Looking back, there were many clues that we missed, having never had any deaf pets before . . . Deaf pets will compensate - pick up vibrations, visual clues and body language.

He stopped eating and we had to syringe-feed him, although he would still drink water. After he threw up some stomach lining we had to let him go at 14 years old. We finally had to "transition" him a month ago or so.

He and Coal had a great relationship, and it was nice that we could leave them alone together for extended periods of time if we went on a mini-trip somewhere. They'd groom each other, and sometimes try to eat each other.

When Coal left the house for the last time we worried that Coal might worry. He didn't. Barely batted an eye over the loss, except when I played a video of Ginger meowing on my smartphone. Coal would meow back every time video Ginger would meow. Other than that, nothing.

Coal has always been rather "chatty". He's a great communicator.

I miss Ginger . . . there were so many quirky things about him that endeared him to us


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## Chilham

Cats.

Tissy and Micky were my brothers cats when I was a kid. Micky2 came and went pretty quickly. Sooty was my cat, but always preferred my mothers company. Timmy my sister's and Oscar a companion for my mother after my father passed. Milligan was our kids cat. He lived the life of 'Riley'. Five years of gallivanting through rural Kent, then five years in a spacious Paris apartment, doing balancing acts on the balcony to the terror of all onlookers. 

I'm not good with dogs. I did once have am interesting experience with one. My wife and I were camping in the Lake District. I crawled out of the tent one morning and stretched. As I did, I noticed a dog coming towards me between the tents, sniffing at guy ropes and occasionally peeing on them. As it neared me I starred at it. It stopped, looked at me, and turned away whimpering. The guy sitting in the entrance of his tent next to ours was impressed. I never managed to do it again.


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## progmatist

If you die, your dog will stand guard over your body....









Your cat will make you its very next meal.


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## Ingélou

I used to like having both cats and dogs, and after our move looked forward to having them again. But the garden isn't secure for dogs, and as for cats, we bought a new sofa.


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## Merl

After we lost Fender, our rescue cat, a while back we've been looking for a grey kitten (always wanted a grey) to introduce to the bother two. Mrs Merl has her heart set on a Maine **** and has contacted a few breeders to try and sort one. Watch this space. I don't think it will be long before we're back to being a 3 cat family.


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## Flamme

Plants?...:trp::trp::trp:


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## HenryPenfold

Dogs. 
Cats are disloyal and selfish.


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## Flamme

Im not a great fan of both but if pressed would go with dogs...I like loyalty and warmtth in pets and dogs tick that box much more than other...


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## MrNobody

HenryPenfold said:


> Dogs.
> Cats are disloyal and selfish.


I disagree. Dogs are yes-men and yes-women. Cats are artists. My cat is able to see the third eye in my forehead when I'm in clairvoyant mood. During those moments, she just stares at my forehead. Once I saw my cat meet a viper. They were very close. Both seemed to know very well what they were doing. The duel never came. The viper was too afraid to bite and my cat was too wise to attack.


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## Ingélou

Cats can be very different. We've had four in our time, all nice, and the last two were very friendly and loyal. Especially our last black cat, Bramble, that we found as a stray kitten. He was close to us and to the two dogs too.


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## MrNobody

Rarest big cats
http://siberiantimes.com/ecology/others/news/rarest-big-cats-in-the-world-reach-key-milestone-in-evading-extinction/
like this


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## EdwardBast

HenryPenfold said:


> Dogs.
> Cats are disloyal and selfish.


Really? Watch this:


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## HenryPenfold

EdwardBast said:


> Really? Watch this


And sometimes aggressive


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## mikeh375

^^^lol Henry. Cats for me, we've had 6 to date, mostly rescue in some form or another. Our latest is Shelley Bean and she's a handful of playfulness even though she was originally found under the bonnet of a car after a 70 mile journey.


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## EdwardBast

HenryPenfold said:


> And sometimes aggressive


Of course, that's the obvious lesson to draw from the video.


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## Ingélou

EdwardBast said:


> Really? Watch this:


What an amazing video. :tiphat:

I can't find any links but some years ago (maybe 15 or so) there was a raid on a post-office in the UK. The postmistress's big black cat normally lay peacefully snoozing in a basket on the counter, but obviously there was something in the robbers' demeanour that alerted him. He got up, snarled, and launched himself at them. The robbers fled, empty handed. 

I think the cat got some award or other for his bold & loyal behaviour.

PS - While I was hunting bootlessly for links, I came across this article about Tibs The Great which may interest cat-lovers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibs_the_Great


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## geralmar




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## CnC Bartok

Cats vs dogs? Ok then:

Chap walks into a bar with a very large, strange-looking labrador.
"That's a weird- looking dog you've got there" says the barman
"Yup, I know"
"Is it any good at fighting?"
"Don't know, never tried to find out."
"Ok, my pitbull is vicious. If yours can beat mine, I'll give you £500".
"Ok," so the barman goes upstairs and gets his rabid-looking pitbull. The fight starts.
Within five seconds, the pitbull is lying dead in a pool of blood. The barman, though upset, hands over the £500.
"Ok, your dog can fight, but I still think it's weird-looking"
"I couldn't agree more. But it looked even weirder before I shaved its mane off."


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## Luchesi

This vet says;

Should you kiss your dog? We get asked often. Some people love to kiss and some do not. In most cases, we say it's better not to kiss your dog. However, recent research suggests that dog saliva could aid wound healing.
Yes, your dog has bacteria in their mouth.
_Pastuerella_ - lives in the mouths of cats and dogs that can cause skin, lymph node and, sometimes, more severe infections.
_Bartonella henselae _can cause a severe skin and lymph node infection called cat-scratch-fever.
_Salmonella_, _E. coli_, _Clostridia _and _Campylobacter - _intestinal bacteria of pets that can cause severe intestinal disease in humans.

https://doralpetcare.com


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## Flamme

geralmar said:


>


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## Musicaterina

My favourite pets are neither cats nor dogs (but I like them both) but guinea pigs.


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## progmatist

Musicaterina said:


> My favourite pets are neither cats nor dogs (but I like them both) but guinea pigs.


I'm a bird person myself. If I could afford one, I'd buy a hyacinth macaw.


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## Ingélou

progmatist said:


> I'm a bird person myself. If I could afford one, I'd buy a hyacinth macaw.


I like birds, but cages and small aviaries seem too constricting. Also, I've gone off birds somewhat since my sister wound up in hospital with psittacosis. She wound up with what at first was a mystery illness (but extremely serious) by visiting a pet shop - the owner later died of the disease.


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## progmatist

Ingélou said:


> I like birds, but cages and small aviaries seem too constricting. Also, I've gone off birds somewhat since my sister wound up in hospital with psittacosis. She wound up with what at first was a mystery illness (but extremely serious) by visiting a pet shop - the owner later died of the disease.


When I had birds in the past, they had the run of the house. They only went in the cage to sleep at night.


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## hammeredklavier

I like all creatures in both species, except Bulldog


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## progmatist

In my travels on public transportation, I've seen many dogs who stay with their "unhoused" owners. I have yet to see a cat do that.


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## science

Oh goodness, I never expected cats to be winning. Now I will have to read the thread to find out whether there are any good excuses for this situation.

Edit: 

Nope. No excuses for it at all. 

True, if "cats" included bobcats, there'd be a legitimate conversation here. But no one has raised that point. 

One of the great things about growing up in the country was having dogs. We used to have four or five at a time. We had cats too, but whatever. 

The only animal better than a dog is a horse. 

Unless you need to eat it. In that case there's nothing better than salmon.


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## Ingélou

It does seem surprising. I love both of them and wouldn't want to vote for one over the other. Possibly that's it - those that love dogs often also love cats. But cat people are specialists!


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## Open Book

hammeredklavier said:


> I like all creatures in both species, except Bulldog


My cousin has a bulldog. She picks it up like a baby. It has a huge head and barks furiously in defense of her. Can't say I like bulldogs either.


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## progmatist

Ingélou said:


> It does seem surprising. I love both of them and wouldn't want to vote for one over the other. Possibly that's it - those that love dogs often also love cats. But cat people are specialists!


A stand up comedian explained the difference between a cat lover and a crazy cat lady. The cat lover names her cats fluffy, pickles, etc. The crazy cat lady names her cats Mark, Jennifer, Paul and Steve.


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## geralmar

Found this twitter post:

"Dog people always act like dogs are so much better than cats; but as a cat person I just want to say you never see cats working with the cops."


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## NoCoPilot

science said:


> Unless you need to eat it. In that case there's nothing better than salmon.


OH MY GOD, YOU BARBARIAN. I have had Solomon the Salmon as my pet and best friend since he was a fingerling. We bath together, eat brine shrimp together, I have a portable tank for taking him on walks....


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## science

NoCoPilot said:


> OH MY GOD, YOU BARBARIAN. I have had Solomon the Salmon as my pet and best friend since he was a fingerling. We bath together, eat brine shrimp together, I have a portable tank for taking him on walks....


Our childhoods are incomparable.


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## Art Rock

I've always considered myself a dog person. We had a lovely cocker spaniel (Jazz) from 2002 until 2017, and decided not to get another dog to have our hands free for traveling (then came Covid...). Last year our new neighbours got a Labrador puppy, and as they run a coffee place, he is outside a large part of the day, and available for petting. They also have three cats by now, and to my own surprise I like them a lot too. Maybe *Ingélou *is right when she says "those that love dogs often also love cats. "


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## NoCoPilot

Art Rock said:


> Maybe *Ingélou *is right when she says "those that love dogs often also love cats. "


People who love dogs are *human*. Anyone who doesn't is missing some empathy gene, and not to be trusted.


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## progmatist

geralmar said:


> Found this twitter post:
> 
> "Dog people always act like dogs are so much better than cats; but as a cat person I just want to say you never see cats working with the cops."


I've yet to see a seeing eye cat. If there was such a thing, they'd likely lead their client right into traffic.


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## Art Rock

progmatist said:


> I've yet to see a seeing eye cat. If there was such a thing, they'd likely lead their client right into traffic.


Probably push them off a cliff.


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## Open Book

Our neighbor across the street had a Siamese cat that tried to lead its enemy the dog next door into traffic. Chilling.


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## Aerobat

progmatist said:


> I've yet to see a seeing eye cat. If there was such a thing, they'd likely lead their client right into traffic.


Assistance cats are out there, but not welcome everywhere:

Court fight looms over Sainsbury's cat ban


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## elgar's ghost

Aerobat said:


> Assistance cats are out there, but not welcome everywhere:
> 
> Court fight looms over Sainsbury's cat ban


What a mean-spirited attitude from Sainsbury's - the cat is unlikely to be anywhere near the produce and also would be a far more diminutive presence than a guide dog. I'm fine with both cats and dogs - for me one of the biggest nuisances in a supermarket are those who roar around on mobility scooters the size of armoured personnel carriers like a cross between Ben Hur and Mr. Toad and then when stationary do their best to impersonate a roadblock.


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## Luchesi

I like cats more than I do dogs. But cats carry many diseases which humans can pick up.


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## NoCoPilot

Luchesi said:


> I like cats more than I do dogs. But cats carry many diseases which humans can pick up.


Not indoor cats.


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## Krummhorn

Love our two cats and they love us as well. One of them cuddles up on my desk all the time.


----------

