# What are the best recordings of the following works?



## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

Bach, Mass in B minor

Bach, St. Matthew Passion

Mozart, Mass in C minor

Beethoven, Mass in C major

Brahms, A German Requiem

Verdi, Requiem

Faure, Requiem

Mahler, Symphony No. 8


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I'll answer for the last one.

It's Klaus Tennstedt's live performance with the London Philharmonic Orchestra, which is available both as a CD and a DVD.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Boldertism said:


> Bach, Mass in B minor
> 
> Bach, St. Matthew Passion
> 
> ...


For the Verdi Requiem, you would have to put up with mono sound-Arturo Toscanini.

For the Mahler 8-Leopold Stokowski; Georg Solti and Leonard Bernstein (LSO) are all very fine.

For the Mozart Mass in C minor, I love the Sir Colin Davis, though the Gardiner performance has its passionate advocates.

For the Bach Mass in B Minor, I still love the old Karl Richter performance-completely-UN-HIP, but terrific.


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

Boldertism said:


> Bach, Mass in B minor
> 
> Bach, St. Matthew Passion
> 
> ...


Bach BMinor Mass: Minkowski, perhaps
Verdi. Requiem: Gardiner
Mahler: pause. Hmmm...Tilson Thomas, I suppose.
Mind you, there are scores of recordings that might qualify. I just mention my particular favorites....and there are lots I have not heard.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Bach's Mass in B minor - Leonhardt (could be hard to find)
Bach's St. Matthew Passion - Herreweghe (his first of two on Harmonia Mundi)
Mozart's Mass in C minor - Leppard (could be as hard to find as the Leonhardt)


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## anthonycwein (Jan 20, 2016)

My favorite for Mahler no. 8 - Goerg Solti with Chicago SO (on vinyl)


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

OK, before anybody else shoots from the hip, I need to ask Boldertism a question: What aspect(s) of a recording is/are most important to you? Do you prefer a great performance, never mind the sound quality? Or do you find it difficult to enjoy even the greatest performance if it's recorded in crappy sound? (Like an old 1930s mono recording, for example.)

I personally can't stand crappy sound, regardless of how wonderful the performance might be, but that's just my preference. It does have a major effect, however, on which recordings I consider "great".

So what aspect(s) is/are most important to you?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bach, Mass in B minor
Herbert von Karajan ( old recording)on Emi

Bach, St. Matthew Passion
Peterchreier on Philips

Mozart, Mass in C minor
Leonard Bernstein

Beethoven, Mass in C major
The on on Telarc conducted by Shaw

Brahms, A German Requiem
Sinopoli on GD

Verdi, Requiem
Reiner on Decca 

Faure, Requiem
Colin Davis (former on Philps)

Mahler, Symphony No. 8 
George Solti on Decca.
best recording and best sound


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## Le Peel (May 15, 2015)

dsphipps100 said:


> OK, before anybody else shoots from the hip, I need to ask Boldertism a question: What aspect(s) of a recording is/are most important to you? Do you prefer a great performance, never mind the sound quality? Or do you find it difficult to enjoy even the greatest performance if it's recorded in crappy sound? (Like an old 1930s mono recording, for example.)
> 
> I personally can't stand crappy sound, regardless of how wonderful the performance might be, but that's just my preference. It does have a major effect, however, on which recordings I consider "great".
> 
> So what aspect(s) is/are most important to you?


I'm not too picky about sound quality. I suppose I prefer to stereo over mono, but I'm not against mono recordings. If there's one thing I do care about, it's the sound of the venue. Some recordings have dead sound while others sound bloated due to reverberation.

A good recording of the B minor mass is with Klemperer on EMI


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## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

dsphipps100 said:


> OK, before anybody else shoots from the hip, I need to ask Boldertism a question: What aspect(s) of a recording is/are most important to you? Do you prefer a great performance, never mind the sound quality? Or do you find it difficult to enjoy even the greatest performance if it's recorded in crappy sound? (Like an old 1930s mono recording, for example.)
> 
> I personally can't stand crappy sound, regardless of how wonderful the performance might be, but that's just my preference. It does have a major effect, however, on which recordings I consider "great".
> 
> So what aspect(s) is/are most important to you?


I don't fuss about the sound. Old, new, I'm fine.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Boldertism said:


> I don't fuss about the sound. Old, new, I'm fine.


OK, that helps, thanks.

In that case, on the Brahms German Requiem, I would definitely recommend the Abbado-Berlin recording

http://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Deutsches-Requiem-German-Op-45/dp/B000001GI5

On the Verdi Requiem, I would strongly, strongly recommend the Robert Shaw-Atlanta version:

http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Requiem-Operatic-Choruses-Giuseppe/dp/B000003CUH/

And on the Faure Requiem, I would most strongly repeat recommending Shaw-Atlanta...

http://www.amazon.com/Faure-Requiem-Op-48-Durufle/dp/B000003CU2/

...on which you also get the lesser-known but absolutely _gorgeous_ Durufle Requiem as well.

Anything with Shaw-Atlanta (including the other recommendations from other people in this thread) is pretty much guaranteed to have excellent sound (it's Telarc, after all), with all the singers using crystal clear diction (a rarity among most other choruses) and excellent blend. (Robert Shaw was George Szell's choir conductor, after all.)

On the Mahler Sym # 8, that's a tough one to answer, because I have 21 different versions of it, and well.....I don't like any of them. Oh, they're all good recordings, to be sure (most of them, anyway), but they all fall short somewhere, usually by wimping out at the ending. The only Mahler 8 ending I've ever heard that is really up to snuff is the Rattle-Birmingham version, which absolutely blows the walls out of the room (more than Solti/Chicago), but in other places Rattle just does _weird_ things with the score.

***SIGH*** Probably the best overall version I've heard of Mahler 8 is the Chailly-Amsterdam recording. It has great quality of sound (which is essential in Mahler 8 or you'll lose half the goings on...), Chailly's interpretation is reasonably involved, but also _sensible_. And what I mean by that is that he does make you feel emotionally involved, but he manages to avoid doing anything weird with the score, which too many conductors are guilty of at one point or another. Much like Abbado was often so good at, Chailly (an Italian like Abbado) seems to have an operatic sense of dramatic pacing and overall structure. Everything seems to fit into a larger, overall setting that, to my ears at least, always seems to be shaped just right. Never once during Chailly's Mahler 8 do I find myself suddenly sitting up and saying, "What the.....????!!!!" as so often happens with too many other Mahler 8s.

In addition, you won't find a more authentic "Mahler sound" than the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra, they are really perfect for him. And lastly, Chailly does the ending up pretty good. Not quite as good as Rattle, but he's really close. (And he doesn't rush the ending like way too many other conductors seem to have an inexplicable urge to do, as if they're late for a date or something.)

Interestingly, there's a breathmark in the score just before the final 13 measures. This breathmark is for everybody, the whole orchestra, all the singers, and even the organ. Mahler clearly wanted a brief (dramatic) pause at that moment. And yet, there's only one recording that I remember taking that breathmark - Chailly's.

As for Solti's Mahler 8, it was revelatory for it's time, and it definitely set a new standard for massed recordings...but it's been outdone since then, if we can all face the truth. And that's not being critical of Solti or Chicago by any means, it's just something that happens over time. Athletes set new world records, and then somebody comes along later and breaks them anew. It's the same with music. Solti/Chicago set the bar higher, so other orchestras aimed higher - and some of them have achieved it, including Chailly-Amsterdam.

In case you're interested, here's all the Mahler 8s that I have in my collection:










(I also have Bernstein-London and Kubelik-Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, but haven't organized them yet into folders with the others, and I also have the ending of the Ozawa-Boston version.)

If anybody want to, they can feel free to ask me about any of these Mahler 8s.









Happy listening.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bach, Mass in B minor - Gardiner or Herrewegh

Bach, St. Matthew Passion - Harnoncourt's last recording or Herrewegh's first

Mozart, Mass in C minor - McCreash

Beethoven, Mass in C major (I assume you mean the earlier mass) - Gardiner

Brahms, A German Requiem - Klemperer

Verdi, Requiem - Giulini live (if you can get it), Gardiner or Fricsay (mono but electrifying performance)

Faure, Requiem - Rutter

Pass on the Mahler as I don't like the work


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Bach Mass in B minor: Herreweghe

Bach St. Matthew Passion: Herreweghe

Mozart Mass in C minor: Gardiner

Beethoven Mass in C major: Gardiner

Ein Deutsches Requiem: Klemperer or Gardiner's second recording

Verdi Requiem: Solti or Gardiner

Fauré Requiem: Gardiner

Mahler 8th: Uhm...Solti?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Needless to say, you´ll get about as many different answers as posters here. Recordings vary a lot in style and playing as regards all these works. It´s a good trend to present what one´s heard, I think; and actually, the more recordings you listen to, the more you´ll also develop your own taste.

But: my strongest recommendation would be that of the *Verdi* _Requiem_ with Bernstein, on Sony.

This is based on having
- CD Bernstein,soli,NYPO/cbs-sony 2cd 70-93 sm2k 47639
- CD + LP Reiner,Price,Elias,Björling,Tozzi,WienPO/decca cd (quite subdued) 
- LP Markevitch,soli,MosPO/turnab 2lp "st" tv 34210-211 (also very good, but with poor sound)
- LP Solti,Price,Baker,Van Dam,ChicSO/rca 2LP rl 02476 (2)
- LP Muti,Studer,Pavarotti,Ramey,AllaScala/emi-ang 87 dsb 49390
- LP Toscanini,Nell,Barbieri,Stefano,Siepi,NBC/rca 51 2lp mono lm 6018

I´d also recommend checking out the *Mass for Rossini*, a magnificent collective work by Verdi and several of his contemporaries, including an alternative version of Verdi´s _Dies Irae_, in the Rilling recording:
- CD Rilling,soli,StuttgRSO/hänssler 2cd96 lrc01027


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

Bach, Mass in B minor - Suzuki on BIS

Bach, St. Matthew Passion - Herreweghe's 2nd recording on Harmonia Mundi (I know, I seem to be the dissenting vote on whether to get his first or second recording)

Mozart, Mass in C minor - Gardiner on Phillips

Beethoven, Mass in C major - Gardiner on Archiv

Brahms, A German Requiem - Klemperer on EMI

Verdi, Requiem - Gardiner on Phillips (although I am not a big fan of this work, this is the only recording I don't mind)

Faure, Requiem - Rutter on Collegium

Mahler, Symphony No. 8 - tough one. It isn't my favorite Mahler symphony, by a long shot. I was introduced to it with the Solti recording, which many will cite as THE recording, but Solti has never impressed me with Mahler. The recording that opened my eyes to this work, and to which I turn, is the Nagano on Harmonia Mundi.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Not super knowledgeable about the whole record repertoire, but I'll list some personal favourites.

Bach, Mass in B minor: Klemperer

Bach, St. Matthew Passion: Klemperer

Mozart, Mass in C minor: I'd like to encounter a very good version myself!

Beethoven, Mass in C major: Rilling

Brahms, A German Requiem: Klemperer

Verdi, Requiem: Solti

Faure, Requiem: Dutoit

Mahler, Symphony No. 8: Bernstein NYPO


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

I didn't realize Bernstein had recorded the Mahler 8th with New York...


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Of all of the pieces, I have only heard two and enjoyed one. I will second the recommendation for Klemperer's version of Bach's Mass in B minor. I have no idea if that one was HIP or modern.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

dsphipps100 said:


> I didn't realize Bernstein had recorded the Mahler 8th with New York...


Oh! You're right! What I meant, then, was Bernstein/LPO, in the bronze little box where most of the other things are done with NYPO. Thanks for the correction!


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

bharbeke said:


> Of all of the pieces, I have only heard two and enjoyed one. I will second the recommendation for Klemperer's version of Bach's Mass in B minor. I have no idea if that one was HIP or modern.


Klemperer is definitely not HIP.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

For the Verdi Requiem I second the Giulini recommendation. 

For Mahler, I usually am very pleased with Abbado/Berlin, but I can't refer specifically to the Eighth, don't remember.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Verdi Requiem ... Giulini/Philharmonia with an honorable mention for the recent Pappano/Santa Cecilia
Brahms Requiem ... Klemperer/Philharmonia
Mahler 8th ... I have had various versions of this going back to an early Abravenel/Utah recording but I give pride of place to the Rattle/CBSO and honorable mention to Tennstedt/LPO. And if you want to hear what happens when you really get 1000+ involved, look up the Dudamel/LA Philharmonic & Simon Bolivar Orchs. With 2 orchestras and 1200+ voice choir, it definitely makes an impact.

As to the Faure Requiem ... be sure you know which version you want before you buy.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Xaltotun said:


> Oh! You're right! What I meant, then, was Bernstein/LPO, in the bronze little box where most of the other things are done with NYPO. Thanks for the correction!


Got it, thanks for the clarification.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Mahler 8: Mao Zedong conducting the Re-educated Shantung Philharmonic Bicycle Factory Workers (1965)

Bach b-minor: Helmut Umlaut/Baden Baden Radio Symphony

Verdi Requiem: Antonio Luigi Finarini / Santa Vittoria Choral Society

Faure Requiem: A bunch of French people after sitting around drinking wine 

Beethoven Mass in C: The old Reader's Digest set of "Everything in C Major"

Brahms Deutches Requiem: Sanjay Rajmanathan conducting the Benares Philharmonic

Mozart Mass in c: The Vox Box set of "Unfinished Masterpieces" by various Central European pick-up orchestras.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

In the two Bach works it's important to know whether you want a period performance or something like Klemperer's immensely slow, lumbering Bach performances. With respect I can never see how anyone can endure the interminable St Matthew Passion conducted by K - by the end of the opening chorus I want to scream!
If you want a 'traditional' rather than 'period' approach try Karl Richter's first version off the St Matthew and his recording of the Mass


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

MarkW said:


> Mahler 8: Mao Zedong conducting the Re-educated Shantung Philharmonic Bicycle Factory Workers (1965)


Preposterous.

That recording doesn't come close to the Adolf Hitler/Third Reich Philharmoniker with the Hitlerjugend Choir


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## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

DavidA said:


> In the two Bach works it's important to know whether you want a period performance or something like Klemperer's immensely slow, lumbering Bach performances. With respect I can never see how anyone can endure the interminable St Matthew Passion conducted by K - by the end of the opening chorus I want to scream!
> If you want a 'traditional' rather than 'period' approach try Karl Richter's first version off the St Matthew and his recording of the Mass


I don't discriminate approaches, it really depends on if I like what I'm hearing or not. I really, really like Richter's recording of Bach's St. John Passion on DG, which isn't HIP. And I really, really like Gardiner's recording of Missa Solemnis on Soli Deo Gloria, which I'm pretty sure is HIP. I've heard the opening of the Klemperer St. Matthew Passion, what a world of difference from Gardiner it is! (It almost sounds like a movie!)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Boldertism said:


> I don't discriminate approaches, it really depends on if I like what I'm hearing or not. I really, really like Richter's recording of Bach's St. John Passion on DG, which isn't HIP. And I really, really like Gardiner's recording of Missa Solemnis on Soli Deo Gloria, which I'm pretty sure is HIP. I've heard the opening of the Klemperer St. Matthew Passion, what a world of difference from Gardiner it is! (It almost sounds like a movie!)


If you don't discriminate approaches the performers certainly do!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Klemperer´s recording of the _St. Matthew _is fine, whereas his _Mass in b_ is less captivating, IMO.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> Klemperer´s recording of the _St. Matthew _is fine, whereas his _Mass in b_ is less captivating, IMO.


It's only fine if you can take the excessively lumbering approach. K makes Richter appear a speed merchant!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

.... as an alternative to HIP-style, lightfooted restlessness, and countertenors, Klemperer can be downright balmy ...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> .... as an alternative to HIP-style, lightfooted restlessness, and countertenors, Klemperer can be downright balmy ...


And anachronistic!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

On the contrary. The romantic approach is a part of our cultural heritage as well. Music shouldn´t be museum pieces.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> On the contrary. The romantic approach is a part of our cultural heritage as well. Music shouldn´t be museum pieces.


I quite agree but there is a limit. Klemperer's is a relic of the romantic museum where slowness was mistaken for reverence. Now I got to know the work through Karl Richter 1 which is much slower than most HIP but within limits. Remember that much baroque music was some form of dance (try dancing to Klemperer's recording!) and that the rhythmic impulse in Bach's music is just as important as any harmony, melody or counterpoint. Obviously some dances are quicker than others but there is a limit. There is also a limit as to speed as if it is taken too fast it loses all sense of reverence and meaning. I'm all for different approaches but within limits!


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

A lot of people have recommended Solti for the Mahler 8 choice, which is fine if you simply want a 'crash, bang, wallop' approach to the work. In my very humble opinion, you can do much better by exploring one, two or all of the following three recordings (in no particular order):

1. LPO / Tennstedt








2. Warsaw / Wit








3. Symphonica of London / Morris


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## billeames (Jan 17, 2014)

Bach, Mass in B minor Richter 1962

Bach, St. Matthew Passion I dont have a good feel for this, but I would say good ones are Werner, Klemperer

Mozart, Mass in C minor Karajan BPO 

Beethoven, Mass in C major I would say Karajan BPO

Brahms, A German Requiem Klemperer Philharmonia

Verdi, Requiem Karajan VPO 1985

Faure, Requiem I dont have a good feel for this Shaw Atlantic SO chorus

Mahler, Symphony No. 8 Bernstein LSO


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## czgirb (May 27, 2011)

My choise :

Bach, Mass in B minor .......... Leonhardt & Gardiner
Bach, St. Matthew Passion .......... Richter (1959) & Gardiner & Herreweghe
Mozart, Mass in C minor .......... Gardiner_ ... that's what I have_
Beethoven, Mass in C major .......... Gardiner & Klemperer
Brahms, A German Requiem .......... Gardiner & Klemperer
Verdi, Requiem .......... Toscanini, Fricsay, Shaw
Faure, Requiem .......... _sorry, i don't have it_
Mahler, Symphony No. 8 .......... Solti & Bernstein & Tilson Thomas


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