# Israeli Philharmonic



## Kezza

Aapparently the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra Conducted by Zubin Mehta, Played Mahlers 3rd at the Sydney Opera house tonight. I only found out it about it yesterday so I couldn't really go.

Can someone tell me how they sound live so I can make sure I don't miss an oppurtunity like that again.


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## Guest

I heard them at the Proms in London 3 years ago playing Rite of Spring. It was the best performance I have ever heard. 

They played three concerts at the Sydney Opera House but the tickets cost up to $295 each, otherwise I would have gone. You can hear a broadcast of one of the concerts tomorrow (Wednesday) at 1.05pm EST on ABC Classic FM. They play the Beethoven 5th and 6th Symphonies.


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## World Violist

They are very good live (I've not really seen them live, but I have seen the live broadcast of their 60th anniversary concert through PBS...). All they played when I saw them was concerti, except for a very good Brahms Second to round out the program. Very good ensemble in general!


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## YsayeOp.27#6

They come to town last year. But I was so upset about the program they played that I didn't want to attend. They played Beethoven's 5th and Dvorak's 9th.... Come on!


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## World Violist

Warhorses if ever I knew any...

Well, this last year for their 70th anniversary they played the Bruch G minor violin concerto, the Brahms D minor concerto, and Ravel's La Valse. I think they play warhorses a little much, actually... but they play them well.

EDIT: At least it wasn't BOLERO!!!


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## Kezza

Well Hopefully I'll be able to see ACO when they in Canberra with some Russian Violinist.
I've Never heard of her but her name is Alina Ibragimova.

This will only be the second concert I've been to. I saw Canberra Symphony play once but that was before I was REALLY into classical.


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## Guest

Well you are in for a treat with the Australian Chamber Orchestra, no matter what the repertoire. Enjoy.


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## Yagan Kiely

I wonder when they will play Wagner. The rest of the world has the ability to ignore politics for the purpose of enjoying music, Jewish Palestinians can't do it...


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## Isola

Well, may be after the last Holocaust survivor's passing? For those who still bare the tattooed prisoner number on their arms and the memories of Wagner blasting out of loud speakers while their relatives and friends were herded to gas chamber, hearing Wagner must be unbearable. Would it be possible, say, after 9/11, the music of an Islamic fundamentalist composer used by Bin Laden for propaganda ever played in the US? Guess not, no matter how great the music could be. Let's hope the future generations of Israel can separate Wagner's music from his anti-Semitism.

I happened to come across an article lately: 
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Wagner.html

_"The entire argument about playing Wagner in Israel does not, in reality, centre around the quality of his music. The question is not whether Wagner's music is of high or low quality, nor is the argument about how deep-seated was his antisemitism really relevant. There is no doubt that there have been other composers who were no less antisemitic. While it cannot be maintained that Wagner was directly responsible for German national socialism, there is no doubt that he was a powerful symbol in the Nazi era, and his music held a singular importance in the Nazi psyche. Thus, for Jewish survivors of the Nazi horrors, Wagner's music represents a vivid reminder of that regime. The argument that music must be separated from politics is not cogent in general, and certainly not in this case. If anybody introduced politics into music, it was Richard Wagner himself."_


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## Yagan Kiely

Holocaust survivors aren't the majority in the Jewish portion of Palestine. They _need_ to be less sensitive about it, it happened 60-70 years ago. If Vietnam did the same thing as the Jewish population they would be criticized for focusing on the past or variants.

How can you compare 9/11 to the holocaust? Only 3000 died in 9/11, 4-6 million Jews died in the holocaust. 3-500,000 civilians died in the atomic bombings of Japan. 9/11 is _not_ as big a deal as it is beat up to be. It is a extremely great tragedy, but such sentiment about it stems from US propaganda and the general shock of such a large (large in the sense of an attack on US soil) attack. Also, no Arabic music is heard in the US eitherway, reglardless of who the composer is, they are far to anti-Muslim.



> Let's hope the future generations of Israel can separate Wagner's music from his anti-Semitism.


It is despicable that current generations havn't. An overwhelming majority of Jewish palestinians have never gone near a gas chamber or 'death' camp, they have no history of hearing 'Wagner blasting out of loud speakers while their relatives and friends were herded to gas chamber'.


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## Isola

Who are we to say "they _need_ to be less sensitive about it" while their grandparents are still around?

You clearly missed my point: I wasn't comparing 9/11 with holocaust (and I did study history); I was merely making an example on the issue of separating music from politics. Also there's no need to take Bin-Laden's composer seriously, I assure you it's hypothetic. 

By the way I found your term of 'Jewish Palestinians' rather amusing but that's beyond the point.

Anyhow, I have no intention to further hijack the original thread.


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## World Violist

Yagan Kiely said:


> How can you compare 9/11 to the holocaust? Only 3000 died in 9/11, 4-6 million Jews died in the holocaust. 3-500,000 civilians died in the atomic bombings of Japan. 9/11 is _not_ as big a deal as it is beat up to be. It is a extremely great tragedy, but such sentiment about it stems from US propaganda and the general shock of such a large (large in the sense of an attack on US soil) attack. Also, no Arabic music is heard in the US eitherway, reglardless of who the composer is, they are far to anti-Muslim.


I definitely agree with you here. 9/11 was a terrorist attack, but it was no attempt to wipe out an entire religious following. Sure, the people who planned it talked about purifying the earth of non-Islamic peoples, but that never really got anywhere. Just a scare tactic that the US citizens fell into as easily as they could possibly hope to fall into. It catapulted us into another war that subsequently became a far bigger deal than it should have; after two world wars and Vietnam, why would a skirmish over a hijacked plane be such a huge deal? There have been far more dire situations.

Anyway, I can't blame them for not wanting to play Wagner, but still, it's too much like these countries not wanting German music played during WWII; there must come a time when music passes the boundary of politics and become its own entity--and that means Wagner, too. What is music otherwise?


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## Yagan Kiely

> By the way I found your term of 'Jewish Palestinians' rather amusing but that's beyond the point.


How come? Israel is an illegal nation on land that isn't theirs. Palestine are the rightful, moral and legal owners of the land.



> Who are we to say "they _need_ to be less sensitive about it" while their grandparents are still around?


If they so sensitive about it just because of their grandparents, it is closely related to a religion. Having grandparents there does not mean they have any idea about it.



> I was merely making an example on the issue of separating music from politics


I absolutely agree, you should never (and technically can't) separate music from politics (but the act of genocide on Jews, gays, gypsies, communists, and the mentally impaired is hardly politics anyway). While you can't, that doesn't mean you boycott and riot at any performance of such amazingly beautiful music. I'd listen to Howard's or Bush's music if it was as good.


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