# JS Bach - St John Passion



## JSBach85

*Johann Sebastian Bach - St. John Passion*

The Passio secundum Joannem or St John Passion or Johannes Passion is the older of the only two surviving passions by Johann Sebastian Bach. Written during Bach's first year as director of church music in Leipzig and was first performed on April 7, 1724, at Good Friday Vespers at the St. Nicholas Church. Probably unfairly neglected by the most famous passion: St Matthew Passion since has been described as more extravagant, with an expressive immediacy, at times more unbridled and less "finished".

I do like St. John Passion mainly for the breathtaking opening chorus: Herr, unser Herrscher






and also for the quality of the recitatives. The work is most often heard today in the 1724 version although Bach revised it in 1725 replacing the original opening chorus.

This is precisely the work of which I have more recordings, I own 9 recordings of St. John Passion that I will split as follow:

1. One-Voice-per-Part (OVPP) HIP recordings:

John Butt / Dunedin Consort

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-John-Passion-plays-players-x/dp/B009G7WUOM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564609&sr=1-1&keywords=john+passion+butt

Philippe Pierlot / Ricercar Consort

https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-S-Bach-Passion-Ricercar-Consort/dp/B004LYIDQY/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564630&sr=1-1&keywords=john+passion+pierlot

Konrad Junghanel / Cantus Colln (1749 version)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Johannes-Passion-Version-1749-Cantus-Colln/dp/B005QF335I/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564646&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=john+passion+junghanel

Andrew Parrott / Taverner Consort and Players

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-John-Passion-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00005UNXC/ref=sr_1_24?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564701&sr=1-24&keywords=john+passion+bach

2. Various voices per part (traditional choir) HIP recordings:

JE Gardiner / The English Baroque Soloists (1986)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-John-Passion-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B0000057CW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564591&sr=1-1&keywords=john+passion+gardiner

Stephen Layton / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Vinyl/Bach-St-John-Passion-Neal-Davies/B00ARL9P2Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564569&sr=1-1&keywords=john+passion+layton

Masaaki Suzuki / Bach Collegium Japan

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-John-Passion-Johannes-Passion-Suzuki/dp/B000026BB8/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564543&sr=1-1&keywords=john+passion+suzuki

Jos van Veldhoven / The Netherlands Bach Society

https://www.amazon.co.uk/J-S-Bach-St-John-Passion/dp/B002QJ51L6/ref=sr_1_19?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564180&sr=1-19&keywords=bach+john+passion

Benoit Haller / La Chapelle Rhenane

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Secundum-Johannem-Chapelle-Rhenane/dp/B0036V4DMG/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502564348&sr=1-2&keywords=bach+benoit

Which recordings do you like?


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## wkasimer

> Which recordings do you like?


The new Jacobs recording is superb.

At the other end of the spectrum is my "imprint" version - an English language recording with the King's College Choir, conducted by David Willcocks, with superb soloists, including Peter Pears, David Ward, and Helen Watts.

A really fine HIP but off the beaten track recording is the Smithsonian recording conducted by Kenneth Slowik:


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## Marc

I should relisten a lot to make a 'weighed' choice... but, spontaneously, I would like to mention both expressive Gardiner's recordings (1986 and 2003/live, issued in 2011) and also Sigiswald Kuijken: both recordings, the OVPP of 2013, and especially his first one (1987), which is slow yet very intense.

And, like *wkasimer*, I also have a weak spot for the Slowik/Smithsonian recording of 1989/1990.

Besides that, it could be an interesting idea to listen to renowned conductors like Karl Richter, Karl Munchinger and Fritz Werner, and after that pick the 1965 Gillesberger/Harnoncourt Telefunken recording. 
Just to relive the shock it must have caused.


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## Pugg

I like those two the most, bot got Peter Schreier involved.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Philips/4220882

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/RCA/74321491812


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## JSBach85

Marc said:


> I should relisten a lot to make a 'weighed' choice... but, spontaneously, I would like to mention both expressive Gardiner's recordings (1986 and 2003/live, issued in 2011) and also Sigiswald Kuijken: both recordings, the OVPP of 2013, and especially his first one (1987), which is slow yet very intense.


Unfortunately, I never listened either of Kuijken's recordings of Bach's passions and certainly I am interested in both, mainly because I don't own many St. Matthew's recordings using OVPP aproach. I wonder if Kuijken's St. Matthew's passion is better than McCreesh that if I am not wrong, was the first one using OVPP practice (I don't own any of them). If Kuijken uses the same vocal cast in St. John Passion that in his cantatas for the liturgical year, I will be encouraged to buy it.


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## Marinera

Has anyone heard Minkowski's St John Passion released this year?


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## Manxfeeder

A few years ago, the St. John was given a bad rap because people claimed it was anti-Semitic. Have the critics gotten over that in favor of the music?


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## Pugg

Marinera said:


> Has anyone heard Minkowski's St John Passion released this year?


I did once, on the radio, for reviews :
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/9029585405


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## JSBach85

Marinera said:


> Has anyone heard Minkowski's St John Passion released this year?


Unfortunately, not yet but I am almost sure this can be one of the best OVPP recordings available.


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## Marc

JSBach85 said:


> Unfortunately, not yet but I am almost sure this can be one of the best OVPP recordings available.


It's not OVPP, it's with a small 'chorus' of 8 soloists.
It's in the dramatic style, almost operatic style, which is OK (sometimes a bit too hasty), with an opening choir that I personally don't like, with a continuo sounding almost like a Mahlerian percussion section. (As was already done by a.o. Fasolis and Haller in earlier recordings.) The voices of the choir do not blend that well, mainly caused by soprano Lenneke Ruiten (too shrill, too audible) and alto Delphine Galou (much more vibrato than the other singers, also too audible).
In short, I think it's OK, but not a must-have.


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## JSBach85

I didn't even looked at the vocal cast. Delphine Galou? It's been a long time I haven't listened to a recording where Galou took part but I remember her as a great singer for Vivaldi operas, I don't know how good can perform in sacred music.

Thank you for your opinion, I think I won't get it...


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## Marc

JSBach85 said:


> I didn't even looked at the vocal cast. Delphine Galou? It's been a long time I haven't listened to a recording where Galou took part but I remember her as a great singer for Vivaldi operas, I don't know how good can perform in sacred music.
> 
> Thank you for your opinion, I think I won't get it...


Remember though, it's just one opinion. And I don't think it's a bad recording, but I've listened to better ones.
There are others though who think otherwise.

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-St-John-Passion-2CD/dp/B01N19EGHT

I.c. Galou: it's noteworthy that I was only referring to her participation in the choir parts.


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## DavidA

The OVPP rests own pretty speculative scholarship imo. Besides, do we really want to create the same conditions Bach had when we know he appears to have been constantly frustrated with them? I learned the St John from LPs I bought of Karl Richter but the St John does benefit from a more modern, HIP approach. 

The versions I have:

Bruggen - typically individual

Suzuki - I bought this is a charity shop for next to nothing - superb performance by the Japanese Lutheran conductor

Gardiner - the choir is superb but does Gardiner go deep enough with the spiritual side of the work?

Jacobs - tremendous performance bringing out the drama.


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## haydnfan

Suzuki is my go to. I think he really hits the meditative and spiritual elements as well as the dark, fiery aspects as well. This is a very difficult work to pull off. It has to sound dramatic but not romantic. Rhythmic but not effervescent. Large but with chamber level transparency. Sometimes tranquil, sometimes passionate. Never swift but never plodding either. It is amazing how if any of those lines are crossed the recording quickly becomes dull and mechanical sounding to me. Suzuki navigates the terrain quite well.


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## bz3

Manxfeeder said:


> A few years ago, the St. John was given a bad rap because people claimed it was anti-Semitic. Have the critics gotten over that in favor of the music?


Many Jews have complained that the Gospels, and the Book of John in particular, is anti-semitic virtually since it was written. The outrage industry has, of course, given these complaints a bit of bullhorn but I don't anticipate either one going away anytime soon.


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## DavidA

bz3 said:


> Many Jews have complained that the Gospels, and the Book of John in particular, is anti-semitic virtually since it was written. The outrage industry has, of course, given these complaints a bit of bullhorn but I don't anticipate either one going away anytime soon.


You might find this an interesting article

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/j-s-bach-the-misunderstood-musician-1.35536


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## WildThing

Are there any recommendations for a good non-HIP recording of this work, in German, besides Karl Richter's?


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## wkasimer

WildThing said:


> Are there any recommendations for a good non-HIP recording of this work, in German, besides Karl Richter's?


This one, conducted by Wolfgang Gonnenwein:









Vastly superior singing to Richter's, and to virtually every other recording, except perhaps this one:


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