# Symphonies?



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I've been listening to a lot of symphonies recently... in part due to fleshing out my collection of Russian music... which has never been at the top of my personal pantheon (don't tell Huilunsoittaja :lol. I found myself having to admit that when it came to the symphony, the Russians were unrivaled ... after the "Austro-Germanic Hegemony". 

This leads to my question... beyond the Austro-Germanic Hegemony (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Hartmann, Henze, etc...) and the Russians (Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Alexander Borodin, Myaskovsky, Mieczysław Weinberg, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Shostakovitch, Rachmaninoff, etc...) who/what are the greatest symphonic composers/symphonies... in your opinion?

The first names that pop up to me are Dvorak, Bizet (Symphony in C), Saint-Saëns, Sibelius, Berlioz (Symphonie fantastique... my current listening), and Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 (Symphony of Sorrowful Songs). What great symphonies would you add?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm glad you mentioned Saint-Saens. I just discovered his symphonies. I hadn't paid much attention to them until our own Marshallin Blair introduced me.

I would add Nielsen to the list.


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## hustlefan (Apr 29, 2016)

I would add on the French side Cesar Franck and Albert Roussel and there are some British symphonists such as Elgar and Vaughan Williams as well as the Scandinavians Carl Nielsen and Franz Berwald not to forget American Charles Ives and Polish Witold Lutoslawski.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm not sure about "great," but I've recently discovered the symphonies of Eduard Tubin and I feel some of them are worth further listening. More unsuspected (by me) pleasures were the two symphonies of Charles Gounod.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm glad you mentioned Saint-Saens. I just discovered his symphonies. I hadn't paid much attention to them until our own Marshallin Blair introduced me.
> 
> I would add Nielsen to the list.


Wow! I didn't even think about it until this thread. I only knew of the Organ Symphony, but I just went and listened to clips of the 5 symphonies and bought a set. Great music and cheap. I paid under $2 for a like new used set!

Thanks StLukesGuildOhio for starting this thread and mentioning Saint-Saens. I already have his violin concertos and like them very much. The symphonies will be a great addition to my collection.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Not mentioned yet is the British contribution to the field (Bax, Vaughan Williams, Bantock, Elgar, Moeran, Alwyn, Arnold, and so on).


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Don't forget the greatest 'symphonies in all but name' like Janacek's Sinfonietta or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra. Martinu also made many symphonic contributions, both in numbered symphonies and other odd ones. The Czech's are actually a great little place to look for good symphonies beyond Dvorak, because you also have Suk's Asrael Symphony, Tauras Bulba by Janacek(which is a 3 movement orchestral rhapsody that has some strong symphonic elements).


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Art Rock said:


> Not mentioned yet is the British contribution to the field (Bax, Vaughan Williams, Bantock, Elgar, Moeran, Alwyn, Arnold, and so on).


Yes, I can't believe I forgot Vaughan-Williams. I quite enjoy a number of works by Bax, Bantock... And especially Elgar and Moeran... but I'm not all that familiar with their symphonic output... to say nothing of Alwyn and Arnold.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

You've all pretty much covered the big names. There are a few more Scandinavian or Nordic symphonists worth noting - Stenhammar, Alfven, Rautavaara - even Joseph Martin Kraus if we can go back that far.

I like a few American symphonists, notably Schuman, Chadwick, Copland to an extent, David Diamond, Piston, etc.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

You could also learn a lot from exploring the chaff of early symphonies, many dating from when the high baroque was just nearing it's zenith. There are some great things in there by Sammartini, Molter, Richter, Stamitz, Wagenseil, and also some more baroque styled symphonies written later, most notably those of Boyce.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Berlioz's 4 symphonies are all greater than any symphony by any Russian not named Tchaikovsky, and maybe greater than Tchaikovsky too (unless Stravinsky's Symphon*ies* for Wind Instruments count as a symphony, which they probably doesn't) . Ditto Debussy's one.

In a more modest league, Ives' 3rd and 4th are really good.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Americans are pretty good when you consider William Schuman and Roy Harris. And Honegger the Frenchman was good as well.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Off the top of me head...Roussel 2, Scriabin 3, Elgar/Payne 3, Vaughan Williams 5, 6, 9, Nielsen 1 - 6. Hovhaness 50. Various from Szymanowski, Lutoslawski, Penderecki. :tiphat:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

regenmusic said:


> Americans are pretty good when you consider William Schuman and Roy Harris. .


To this I can relate very much:tiphat:


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I've been listening to a lot of symphonies recently... in part due to fleshing out my collection of Russian music... which has never been at the top of my personal pantheon (don't tell Huilunsoittaja :lol. I found myself having to admit that when it came to the symphony, the Russians were unrivaled ... after the "Austro-Germanic Hegemony".
> 
> This leads to my question... beyond the Austro-Germanic Hegemony (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Hartmann, Henze, etc...) and the Russians (Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Alexander Borodin, Myaskovsky, Mieczysław Weinberg, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Shostakovitch, Rachmaninoff, etc...) who/what are the greatest symphonic composers/symphonies... in your opinion?
> 
> The first names that pop up to me are Dvorak, Bizet (Symphony in C), Saint-Saëns, Sibelius, Berlioz (Symphonie fantastique... my current listening), and Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 (Symphony of Sorrowful Songs). What great symphonies would you add?


Here we go:
Nielsen
Van Holmboe
Atterberg
Wellesz
Tischenko
Martinu
Schmidt
Piston
Ives
W.Schumann
Berwald
Kraus
Kabelac
Honegger
Harris,Diamond,Bernstein,Creston
Aho,Lutoslawski, Penderecki, Tuur, Tubin, Panufnik,Hindemith, Furtwangler,Toch, 
The Brits: Bax,V/Williams, Elgar, Parry, Stanford, Walton,Britten Spring Symphony, Alwyn,
Roussel, Arnold, Szymanowski,
I could go on...


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## Grotrian (May 5, 2016)

One very interesting symphony that has not been mentioned is the Gothic by Havergal Brian, with excitement, pomp, and pageantry aplenty. A fine cycle that has also not yet been mentioned here is that of Howard Hanson. Much dignified and noble music is to be found there. The same goes for Enescu. I would also like to add that it is nice to see several here recognizing the quality of Saint Saens' other four symphonies. To me, he is somehow taken for granted despite having given us some very famous works. Much of his music is overlooked, but wherever one looks, it almost always has a melodic fluency and sheen that are very attractive and memorable.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Three more underperformed symphonic cycles: Villa-Lobos', Gade's and Casella's:


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Also Magnard, wonderful works.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Philip Glass. Lepo Sumera.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Sibelius, Sibelius, Sibelius. He was one of the 7 greatest ever symphonists (IMO - with Haydn, Mozart, LvB, Brahms, Bruckner and Mahler) and so disproves the original argument. I don't think Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Shostakovich or Prokofiev rise to quite that level of achievement with their symphonies. There are also Nielsen, Dvorak, Vaughan Williams and Franck to bolster the case and many British, Finnish and French composers to back it up further.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

My personal favourite "fringe" symphonists are Holmboe, Langgaard, Martinů, George Lloyd and Fartein Valen; they left behind some truly wonderful works. More difficult, but no less rewarding, are the symphonies of Ib Nørholm.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

GioCar said:


> Three more underperformed symphonic cycles: Villa-Lobos', Gade's and Casella's:


I'm thinking of getting that Gade collection but I waver. The samples sound so -- normal.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Weston said:


> I'm thinking of getting that Gade collection but I waver. The samples sound so -- normal.


I don't think so. They are quite lively intead, having Mendelssohnian traits and qualities, particularly the first three. His symphony no.1 is a little gem, as if Felix had been inspired by the Danish clear skies. 
From the fourth on, they acquire personality and so are more interesting, imo, than the earlier ones. The fifth is a sort of piano concerto. I find the first, the fourth, the fifth and the sixth the most attactive of the group.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Some great American symphonists of the mid-twentieth century:

William Schuman

Peter Mennin

Roy Harris

Walter Piston

Paul Creston


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Some great American symphonists of the mid-twentieth century:
> 
> William Schuman
> 
> ...


I missed Menin...


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