# Tips for helping me become a better singer....



## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm just starting out getting (more) serious about practicing my voice. I'm still not very good yet, and although I'd like to I will not be taking voice lessons (yet).

Any tips or suggestions?

In particular what can I do to improve my pitch accuracy? 
I have never sung in any choir much, and the few chances I do, i notice that I can't always find the pitch right away, especially with an unfamiliar song. I know that I'm off, but I can't always tell if I'm high or low, and by the time I find the note its too late.

Singing acapella it seems a little bit better, I can sing alright without many noticible 'pitch' mistakes at least for easier intervals. Larger intervals like a 5th or higher (octaves are alright though) I'm very unsure about.

And it gets worse. I imagine the reason why singing acapella is easier for me is because I'm likely transposing to a more suitable key for me. However, although like i said there aren't many noticiable mistakes pitch-wise, I've noticed that little by little, (you'd probably have to have a highly trained ear or have perfect pitch to notice) I'm getting off 1/4 of a half step at a time, so at the end of the some I'm singing in a different key than I started. I can tell because I do have Relative Pitch... I can remember the note I start on usually pretty well. Maybe that is a carryover from my taining in piano or trombone. But you'd think having studied trombone I'd be even better at singing. Someone pointed out that singing is a lot like trombone, having to remember positions of slide, etc etc to get the right note. But with singing is different, with trombone you can visually see and feel the position of the slide, with voice, geez its not like I can look and see whats going on inside my throat.

Also, I'd like to know if I'm a Bass, Baritone or Basso-Baritono. 
Previously I have been focusing on my lower range. I used to have difficulty hitting F2 & F#2, but not having checked for years it appears I can now sing down to Eb2 with relative consistency, and I might even be reaching a D2 or maybe I'm just wishful thinking. 
On the other end I think I need to do more work to truly get a good idea of where my falsetta begins. I *think* it starts on D4 or E4 but it might be up to G4 depending on if I'm using my falsetta or not. Sometimes its clear that I am, other times I'm not sure if its just my modal voice, or a more strong falsetta.

secondly, how can I tell if I'm singing in a weak modal voice, strong/ weak falsetta etc etc...

And also what do you think of this song?
Il Balen del Suo Sorriso





It is a Baritone Aria from Il Trovatore. Do you think its too difficult or too high for me to be singing?
(Although this particular song, I guess might actually be classified as Tenor... it goes down to the C below middle C and up to G above middle C.... correct me if I'm wrong.)

Thanks!


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

OK, calm down. Apologies, but I got the image of you hyperventilating as I read your post.

(1) Do you want to be a soloist or a choral singer? Nothing wrong with the latter - I was one for ten years.

(2) If you want to be a soloist, get lessons - you can shorten the paid for learning time by committing to practising and, if you are drifting off pitch, you'll need an accurately tuned keyboard or other reference device to keep your pitch steady. If you attempt to progress any distance without professional guidance, you'll just develop bad habits which you'll then have to pay someone to eradicate. I would question: do you _know _you're drifting off pitch?

(3) If you want to sing in a choir, then the answer depends on where you live. In the UK, there are enough choirs, reachable from any given location, for you to find the one that's right for you. I guess you're in the US, and I have no idea of what is available there.

Even if you want to be a soloist, you should consider singing in a choir first. And don't be a snob about choirs that sing a capella - if you're unsure whether you're hitting the right note, having a large orchestra with you is very helpful! I don't know what you mean by "I imagine the reason why singing acapella is easier for me is because I'm likely transposing to a more suitable key for me". There is no way any choir worth singing in will let you transpose your part! Please explain.

(4) "But you'd think having studied trombone I'd be even better at singing. Someone pointed out that singing is a lot like trombone, having to remember positions of slide, etc etc to get the right note." No, singing is a lot easier - because singing is a natural activity which requires far less practice for it to become intuitive.

(5) "Also, I'd like to know if I'm a Bass, Baritone or Basso-Baritono." If you don't know, you're a baritone.

(6) "how can I tell if I'm singing in a weak modal voice, strong/ weak falsetta etc etc..." Perhaps it would be best to face the fact that either you need a teacher - they'll tell you straight away - or you need to join choir, in which case the choirmaster should soon tell you if you're screwing up.

(7) "And also what do you think of this song? Il Balen del Suo Sorriso... Do you think its too difficult or too high for me to be singing?..." You display a touching confidence in the members of this forum! Frankly, the only truthful answer can be: "we have no idea". Anyone giving you an honest answer would have to hear you. However, given your other questions, I would guess that it is too difficult for you right now.

I think you need to join a choir and put in the hours, both in rehearsal and in private practice of whatever is being programmed. That will compensate for not having a teacher, if funds do not allow this at present. Allow the chorusmaster to assign you a part (they will know more about this than you do). If you transcend the limitations of the choir you join, great. Join a better one. If you live in the US or some other country without a choral tradition, you may well have to get a teacher if the nearest acceptable choir is an unacceptable distance away.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Jeremy is handing out good advice.

If you can get to sing with a choir it will help you tremendously in very many ways regardless of whether you can afford (I am assuming this is part of the reason why you say not yet?) It might be an idea to ask a teacher if he/she would be willing to give you shorter lessons (better) or lessons less frequently than is usual. 

You don't say what your musical training has been, but from the fact that you understand intervals and transposition, it does sound like you have some theory and/or aural training. 

If you join a choir you will find other people there who can help you with aural exercises and training - absolutely essential to any musician, but vital to singers. If your theory is a bit lacking you will find people there who can encourage you to brush up on this regard and work through sight singing exercises with you. A singer who can sight sing well is a blessing in choirs, ensembles and solo work. If you have good theory skills you may find you can swop coaching these with other choir members for their assistance with aural work. But you may find that there are people who will do it just for the love of working with the voice.

If you are young in years and experience it is advisable NOT to try singing heavy opera because this can, in addition to the problem of picking up habits you will have to learn to break, damage your instrument, the vocal chords and other body parts necessary to the creation of pleasing sounds.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks for both of your great advices. I will try to get voice lessons and to join a choir both. Its mostly because I just want to be a better singer not necessarily to be a soloist. What I meant by transposing into a key more suitable for me is I don't know what key i'm actually singing in most of the time, I'm without a piano etc, and have been singing in the shower/round the house Sarastro's 2 arias from the magic flute, even though a little low for me, and after a few years of doing that on and off, when I did finally check I found that I have extended my lowest note from an inconsistant F2 to a fairly consistant Eb 2.

My background is in piano and trombone but its been years. I've never had a voice lesson, although my mom who was a classically trained soprano on a couple of instances heard me singing along with the piano and gave me a couple of pointers. I just want to sound a little better and be a bit more consitant
thanks for all of your great advice.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

btw, the pointers my mom would give me would be something along the lines of "open your throat more" and then I would go what do you mean? my mouth or my throat? as she was invariably preoccupied she wouldn't hear me and I'd try to stick my fist in my mouth to try and pry open my throat wider.... lol j/k.... 

But I did notice something recently, after my mom had criticized some opera singer for "singing from the back of his throat" in a recent email, i started listening to my self differently, which is what lead me to re-question my falsetta, was I singing a G4 in my head voice, or was it just that I was singing from the front of my falsetta voice as opposed to the back of my falsetta voice.... lol.... I hate singers' lingo. 

and I don't know if this makes a difference but I read on wikipedia that head voice/falsetta overlaps for about an octave... so this to lead me to notice that sometimes (at least it seems to me) that singing up a scale vs singing down a scale I may be more apt to sing certain notes in either falsetta or headvoice... like if I start on an e4 in my head voice then go up chromatically it seems i can keep the g in head voice (or at the very least as I say i have a much better tone than my falsetta generally), but if I were to sing a c5 in my falsetta than go down chromatically that same g4 is going to be invariably in a rather weak falsetta.... Is this normal?

You asked me if I know i'm drifting off pitch.... Well yes i'm pretty certain. I think I qualify as having relative pitch. Although I don't if this is how you define it. Back when I used to have a piano I devised a little test, I would play an A 3, hum it to myself, then go watch television for half an hour. then I would hum what I thought to be an A3, then go play it on the piano. I was usually right on, but sometimes maybe it was a Bb or an Ab.... is this relative pitch? like I said I can keep a fairly good idea of the pitch that I start on, and then take the pitch I end on, and although I may not be able to hear the interval is wrong... i can usually go up chromatically and end on the starting note, and sometimes its off....

(Oh god I wish i had not just a keyboard but a chromatic tuner, that would really relieve me of any uncertainties I may have)
I realized my lowest pitch, Eb2 in the same manner as described above. well mostly. I humed along one day to a youtube of the bergman version of the magic flute to O isis und osiris and in diesem heilgen hallen, when the library was practically empty and no one would be bothered. I then waited till sarastro had finished his part, paused the youtube, and chromatically sung down 2 half steps to an Eb. This was only after I had been practicing O isis und osiris acapella without any other musical aid, and lo and behold one day I said to myself, you know, that sounds lower than an F.... that sounds like it could even be a d. and lo and behold I had in fact lowerd my lowest note by at least a whole step. This is why I think I'm justified in claiming to have relative pitch. How can someone with relative pitch be so almost tone-deaf at times is beyond me.


I may add that I'm just approximating these pitches here as I don't have a key board.

Thanks you all again for listening to me rant and again your advice is very much appreciative.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

To return the compliment, Moira speaks wisely.

It sounds to me that you have the talent, you just need the focus and guidance a professional teacher or chorus master can provide.

I would say, join a choir first. I joined a big London choir, Crouch End Festival Chorus, in the early nineties. I cannot tell you how nervous I was - I wouldn't have got to the first rehearsal had it not been for my mate Chris, who went with me. He left the choir after a few rehearsals, and I was only allowed to stay because I was a tenor and they were in chronically short supply.

David Temple, the cofounder of the choir, conductor when I joined and still the conductor, is a charismatic and inspirational teacher and he has consistently raised the standard of the choir to the point where I certainly wouldn't pass an audition now. (I left years ago.)

If you can find a choir that will provide a good learning environment, you'll be able to improve for some time without needing a coach. I'm sure I was a poorer singer then than you are now and I did take singing lessons with an Italian tenor. I was happy to sing from his book of Italian operetta because he let me sing simple Schumann Lieder, which was a joy. After quite a few lessons, I marched up to David and proudly told him of my endeavours. "I thought I was beginning to hear you" is all he said.

One important consideration for me was repertoire. CEFC was then probably the most innovative big choir in the UK in terms of programming. We commissioned a lot, and David was very imaginative in his choice of works: in addition to the standard repertoire, we sang Pärt (extremely difficult on a big choir), Tippett, Patterson, John Adams's _Harmonium _(my idea!), Gerhard's _The plague_ (David's idea and a brilliant one), and much more. We even did Honegger's _Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher_, in collaboration with the local drama college, complete with Jeanne Loriod playing ondes martenot. I loved all that stuff - I even loved trying to get to grips with Simon Bainbridge's _Herbsttag _(a commission), although it was several orders of magnitude too difficult for us at the time.

But I had a problem with some of the standard repertoire. The term when we did _Elijah _was just dire. I hated every minute. So, do choose a choir, if one is within reach, where you can sing what you want to sing. That said, I learnt that some things I will never voluntarily listen to (like _The dream of Gerontius_) were not so bad to sing, and other pieces that I loved (specifically Britten's _Spring symphony_) are gratuitously difficult.



obwan said:


> btw,... [and all the rest]


You're exhibiting all the symptoms of someone floundering around, who knows a little more than is good for them right now. Stop thinking about it, obwan, and *just do it* (ie, join a choir!).


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

obwan said:


> I may add that I'm just approximating these pitches here as I don't have a key board.


Do you have a trombone? 

Maybe what you mother was encouraging you to do was improve the capabilities of your vocal resonators. My choral director has instructed us to think of retaining an opening the size of an egg in our mouths. Wiki has a pretty good article on this.
I have never taken voice lessons but I'm now in a choir associated with our local professional orchestra and have learned a lot about voice from the types of warm-ups we do and listening to the director and following his instructions.

Relative pitch is being able to hear and identify the intervals and chords in music. It is being able to understand how the pitches relate to one another. What you describe is having a memory for pitch. Perfect pitch is knowing which note (by name) is sounding.


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