# Modern Chamber music?



## Manok

Other than the Shostakovich chamber music I've heard including his wonderful string quartets, I can't really find much in the way of chamber music that I enjoy. I think it is because modern chamber music sounds so very different from the orchestral music to my ears. So what would you recommend?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I think it is relatively easier to get into the chamber music because it can be less dense than orchestral music a lot of the time.

This is very entertaining:


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## mmsbls

It's always a bit difficult to recommend works without knowing a bit more about what someone (in your case) dislikes. Can you tell us what you've heard that you did not like?

Without knowing more, my first suggestion would be Messiaen's Quatuor pour la fin du temps (Quartet for the End of Time). To many, this work is a profoundly moving and beautiful piece.


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## Vaneyes

*String Quartets* - Arnold, Bartok, Berio, Britten, Carter, Dutilleux, Enescu, Ginastera, Gubaidulina, Hindemith, Janacek, Krenek, Ligeti, Messiaen, Moeran, Myaskovsky, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Rawsthorne, Sibelius, Schnittke, Schoenberg, RVW, Walton.


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## Manok

I tend to enjoy the dense stuff more, honestly. Modern composers I enjoy orchestral works by: Penderecki, Ligeti, Hindemith, Janacek, Myaskovsky, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Britten, Bartok, Schnittke, Walton, RVW (most of this list came form the above poster (RVW I assume is ralph vaughan williams?) and Sibelius.


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## Vaneyes

Manok said:


> I tend to enjoy the dense stuff more, honestly. Modern composers I enjoy orchestral works by: Penderecki, Ligeti, Hindemith, Janacek, Myaskovsky, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Britten, Bartok, Schnittke, Walton, RVW (most of this list came form the above poster (RVW I assume is ralph vaughan williams?) and Sibelius.


I did, also ('enjoy the dense stuff more'), when I began earnestly collecting classical music. Once I'd had my fill of listening to, what must have been dozens of "unknown composers" orchestral, I decided to return to the "greats", to see what else they wrote. It wasn't long before I appreciated chamber as much as orchestral. That's not to say one won't find some composers top heavy in either.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Manok said:


> I tend to enjoy the dense stuff more, honestly. Modern composers I enjoy orchestral works by: Penderecki, Ligeti, Hindemith, Janacek, Myaskovsky, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Britten, Bartok, Schnittke, Walton, RVW (most of this list came form the above poster (RVW I assume is ralph vaughan williams?) and Sibelius.


For a more dense sound, try some of *Ligeti's* chamber works from the 60s especially the Chamber Concerto, String Quartet no. 2 and Ten Pieces for Wind Quintet. You'd be able to find them all on Aleazk's blog right here on TC.


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## Head_case

Not sure how to help. 

You have a list of orchestral pieces by composers whom you do like. 

Perhaps you could go and try their chamber pieces?

I'm pretty useless at helping others find out what they like. Almost as useless as trying to convince others that they might like what I like. Equally, I know what I like, and specialise mostly in listening to what I like (the string quartet). I know it's not what you like for the most part, but if you like the Shostakovich string quartets, you could try the Myaskovsky string quartet cycle, then the Salamanov string quartet cycle. Going by region/country, the Soviet field is very rich. Moving to Hungary, you could try the Bartok string quartet cycle (maybe a tougher nut to crack than the Shostakovich or Myaskovsky. If you do crack the Bartok string quartet cycle, then you could try the Lathja string quartet cycle; the Matjas Seiber quartet cycle; the two Kodaly string quartets and the Dohnanyi string quartets. If you don't like the folk idiom of the Hungarian style, then the Czech quartets, by Dvorak; Foerster; Janacek (whom you do like) Martinu and Smetana are enticing. If you're interested in Polish ones, then there are threads on Polish Quartets; similarly, French Quartets; English Quartets; American Quartets. 

Perhaps you'll have decided after a handful you can't stand quartets. Then there is only one option left. Try listening to virtuoso tuba solos.


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## principe

For some 20century intriguing Chamber Music, try some Rhim, Klein, Krenek, the great Britten (there is some marvelous Chamber works in his opus), the wonderful Bax, the fascinating Delius, the creative Shchedrin and the glorious Weinberg.
For utterly beautiful but looking backwards composer, Korngold is the best example: some superb, almost sublime Chamber works, written surprisingly in the 20th century. Some French, like Widor, Pierne, Ropartz, or francophone, like Jongen, may satisfy you, at least to some extent.
Keep exploring, even in 20th century there is much to discover.

Principe


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## starthrower

Here's a fine Penderecki CD.


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## Manok

Head_case said:


> Not sure how to help.
> 
> You have a list of orchestral pieces by composers whom you do like.
> 
> Perhaps you could go and try their chamber pieces?
> 
> I'm pretty useless at helping others find out what they like. Almost as useless as trying to convince others that they might like what I like. Equally, I know what I like, and specialise mostly in listening to what I like (the string quartet). I know it's not what you like for the most part, but if you like the Shostakovich string quartets, you could try the Myaskovsky string quartet cycle, then the Salamanov string quartet cycle. Going by region/country, the Soviet field is very rich. Moving to Hungary, you could try the Bartok string quartet cycle (maybe a tougher nut to crack than the Shostakovich or Myaskovsky. If you do crack the Bartok string quartet cycle, then you could try the Lathja string quartet cycle; the Matjas Seiber quartet cycle; the two Kodaly string quartets and the Dohnanyi string quartets. If you don't like the folk idiom of the Hungarian style, then the Czech quartets, by Dvorak; Foerster; Janacek (whom you do like) Martinu and Smetana are enticing. If you're interested in Polish ones, then there are threads on Polish Quartets; similarly, French Quartets; English Quartets; American Quartets.
> 
> Perhaps you'll have decided after a handful you can't stand quartets. Then there is only one option left. Try listening to virtuoso tuba solos.


In pieces written before classical music became mostly atonal, I can usually like the chamber music of a composer I like the orchestral stuff by, even if they write differently for whatever group of instruments is used. I haven't quite figured out why the more modern chamber music is so hard to listen to.


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## Head_case

My guess is as bad as any other....I suppose with the dense orchestration, orchestral music has many different layers to follow. There will be more layers to listen to, or at least, a thread within the textures to hold onto and grip the listener. 

Chamber music is very exposing: it is by nature, intimate, like a chamber or a small room. For the players, it is very exposing, and its intensity can sometimes be a little off putting, especially written in the contemporary idiom. 

Bit of a fluffy explanation, but it's beyond my field really. I used to like orchestral music when I was 12years old; Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition; Khachaturian's amazing cello concertos...Wienawski's too. 

Maybe I just grew out of it. The thick textures were at once, something I loved. Now, it's something which gets in the way of the individual instrument's timbre. Maybe I've just become more focussed and analytical, to the exclusion of the orchestral format. 

If you don't get into chamber music, don't worry - it's a bit like not getting into opera (which I can't stand!) or perhaps chorale music, or even Lieder. There are too many choices, and most of us aren't wet fish who claimm to like any and everything indiscriminately. 

As for chamber music ...maybe it's the Ravel Piano Trio; the Debussy String Quartet; the Fauré cello sonatas which might be a safe and inoffensive era of chamber music to start off with. Most chamber music fans prefer the romantic and classical era, even if your orchestral taste is very contemporary. I suppose I'm saying, maybe start off in the late 19th century and move slowly forwards until you find yourself at the limit of your comfort zone?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Schoenberg's string quartet no. 1


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## Manok

Just as a side note, I do enjoy chamber music, I just find it difficult to listen to a good bit of modern chamber music. It may help that I typically enjoy odd uses of standard instruments or even unconventional combinations of instruments. I suppose that it does make sense that there is less to listen to and that could likely make it harder to appreciate.


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## clavichorder

If it hasn't been mentioned already, I do believe that Bartok wrote some fine string quartets that are just a tad bit more adventuresome than many of Shostakoviches, although I've played Bartok SQs and Shosty SQs for some more conservative listeners and they've preferred the Bartok! Its usually the last movement of the 4th that gets em...


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## Andolink

Try any of the 21 string quartets of Danish composer Vagn Holmboe. The complete set and various parts thereof are on the Da Capo label.


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## norman bates

Bloch - string quartet 2





Harbison - wind quintet


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## Prodromides

I think the larger forms of chamber music (the octet, the septet, quintets, etc.) are easier to "get into" if one finds sonatas or quartets less approachable.

A fascinating "octet", for me, is Roberto Gerhard's _Concerto for 8_ (1962), wherein instruments included are accordion, mandolin plus percussion!


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## PetrB

Darius Milhaud, late in his career, composed a *Woodwind Quintet* which I heard on the radio and found delightful. There is also his well-known earlier wind quintet, *La Cheminée du Roi René*.

Debussy and Ravel wrote *one string quartet each*, Ravel also a *piano trio* and a *violin and piano sonata*.
Debussy has those great late three *sonata*s, for *'Cello and piano* / *Flute, Viola and Harp* / *Violin and Piano.*

(added, 2: Aaron Copland ~ Vitebsk, study on a Jewish Theme, for piano trio. This is Copland in his more intellectual -- vs. populist -- mode, and a fine piano trio which, imho, deserves more play and exposure.)

If you do not know of it, Poulenc, his wonderful *Sextuor* for piano and winds. along with *Sonatas*, one each, for *Violin and piano, Clarinet and Piano, Flute and piano, Oboe and piano*

Manuel de Falla's *Concerto for Harpsichord, Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Violin and 'Cello* is an outstanding work you may wish to investigate.

... and Prokofiev, the *Overture on Hebrew Themes*, piano, clarinet and strings / *Sonata, flute and piano* / *Sonata, 'Cello and Piano*.

You may have missed the Shostakovich *Two pieces for String Octet, Op.11* - all his musical trademarks clearly present in this early work.

Irving Fine:
*Notturno* for Strings and Harp








*Partita*, for woodwind Quintet








*String Quartet* (_serial and tonal_)









Stravinsky:
*Duo Concertant*, violin and piano




Septet: (_serial and tonal_)













Morton Feldman ~ *Piano and string quartet
*




Luciano Berio ~ *Concertino* for violin, clarinet, strings and harp (and Celesta) - a magical neoclassical / serial work.





Elliott Carter ~ *Sonata for Flute, Oboe, 'Cello and Harpsichord*









John Adams ~ excerpts from '*John's alleged book of dances*.'




(His original version of 'Shaker Loops' is for seven strings.)

David Lang ~ *Child*. for Flute, Clarinet, Violin, Viola, 'Cello, Piano and additional percussion.





















*ADDED:*
Steve Reich ~ *Double Sextet*













Terry Riley ~ *Requiem for Adam* (String quartet and sound collage)
Three movements in four links, on a playlist with other Riley works....





On the lighter (and conservative / traditional side of things...
Pavel Karmanov
*'7 before Christmas*, for Flute, String quintet, taped sound.




*Force Major*, for two pianos and two violins




*Different Brooks*, for piano quintet and tape


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## PetrB

Please do not overlook, as I did in my other sizeable list, Schoenberg's early Op. 4 string sextet, Verklärte Nacht, a gorgeous late romantic work....


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## Olias

A lot of the really great wind quintet repertoire came from the "Modern" period. The Nielsen Wind Quintet is marvelous as is Malcolm Arnold's "Three Shanties".


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## Andolink

I'm always stunned by Alban Berg's "Lyric Pieces" for String Quartet.


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## KenOC

PetrB said:


> Manuel de Falla's *Concerto for Harpsichord, Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Violin and 'Cello* is an outstanding work you may wish to investigate.


I'll single this one out. A superb piece, with a wonderful middle (slow) movement that is very intense in a Spanish medeival sort of way.


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## Andolink

I'm always stunned by how good Alban Berg's "Lyric Suite" for String Quartet is.


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## opus55

Bartok and Hindemith also wrote excellent quartets. You might also like Beethoven's late quartets which are surprisingly advanced for its time.


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## Vaneyes

*Roussel* (Brilliant Classics boxset).

View attachment 10004


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## perduto

In case you find Bartok's quartets too serious and/or neurotic, try *Gian Francesco Malipiero*'s String Quartets, especially the recordings by the Orpheus String Quartet, reissued on Brilliant Classics.


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## Guest

Olivier Greif is very tuneful but powerful:










As is Lera Auerbach:










She also has some CDs on the BIS label.


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## Head_case

Anyone else into Auerbach's string quartets?

I'm listening to Ponelli at the moment. Not mentioned much these days. 

This is probably the first time I've listened to new string quartet music in a month, having travelled with mini-discs chocked full of Vissarion Shebalin; Nikolai Myaskovsky and David Diamond!


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## PetrB

These may surprise and / or please you:

_Gavin Bryars_:
The South Downs (1995) - For Piano and Cello 





_Nico Muhly_ ~ Motion, for piano, strings and clarinet





_Gavin Bryars_ ~ 
One last bar Then Joe can sing, for percussion (five players.)








The Vespertine Park, for 2 pianos, 2 vibes, 2 marimbas and percussion (1980)





_Lukas Foss_ ~ Capriccio for 'Cello and Piano (1943)





_Arther Berger_ ~ 
duo for Cello and Piano (1951)




Duo No. 2 for Violin and Piano (1950)








_

George Rochberg_ ~ 
String quartet VI, iii - Variations (on Pachelbel) ... ad alert ....





Summer ~ for piano and string quartet





Serenata d'estate, for flute, harp, guitar and strings (more summer music, lyrical serial piece)





_Samuel Barber_ ~ Summer Music, for woodwind quintet









_Aaron Copland_ ~ Piano Trio 'Vitebsk'


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Andolink said:


> Try any of the 21 string quartets of Danish composer Vagn Holmboe. The complete set and various parts thereof are on the Da Capo label.


I have the complete set, listened to them all a few months ago. It was discussed in the SQ thread. Overall, interesting but not terribly engaging. I think it was more of a compositional exercise for the composer who must have found it very engaging for him to write quite so many.


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## Head_case

I'd love to know what insights fans of Holmboe can glean from his complete string quartet cycle. I'm another one who just doesn't get it. 

It's quite depressing to think that he wrote so many, whose aesthetic purpose eludes. Does anyone get him? What is it that makes his string quartets appealing if you do?


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## Prodromides

Here's a modern "trio" for harpsichord, oboe & horn (a combo which is infrequent, to say the least, if not totally unique).

Maurice Ohana's _Sacral d'ilx_


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## Head_case

Hmmm...perhaps it's not a favourite combination? 

I like his string quartets:










They are at least as difficult as the Georges Enescu string quartets to appreciate. Fans of Enescu and intricate string quartet music will love this.

I'm loving it


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## Quartetfore

This music was recorded by the same label that recorded the interesting Kochlin quartets.


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## Guest

Head_case said:


> Anyone else into Auerbach's string quartets?


I've only heard the 3rd, but I like it very much. She has written a new quartet for the Tokyo String Quartet, which they will premiere on their final tour in 2013.


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## Head_case

Oooh....I've got to stay away from this thread. It's making me too curious to try out new $$$ music!

The Auerbach is really appealing. It's sad to see the Tokyo Quartet on their farewell tour although it would be a happy event to join them if they came to a city near any of us. 

The Koechlin Quartets are still on my to buy list. I'm quite cagey about buying downloads - to date, I haven't bought a single download (which is probably why I'm running out of physical space for new music) although I keep getting MP3 vouchers from left right and centre to pick up new music


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## kskdn

Do you listen to much solo guitar music? We're [ractically chamber-only musicians 

If you like music that's clearly modern, check out some of David Starobin's recordings, he's one of the big players of modern guitar music. Elliott Carter wrote a few pieces for him, including _Shard_, a solo piece which also fits into a larger work _Lumien_.

One of my favorite modern pieces is Leo Brouwer's Sonata for Guitar (written in 1990, don't know the op# but there's 3 movements and the first is called 'Fandangos y Boleros'). It's a really interesting piece that uses a lot of really cool timbres (though not extended techniques) and traces Brouwer's influences through allusions to Beethoven, Scriabin, and others.

Another modern guitar favorite is Britten's _Nocturnal_, a series of variations on a Dowland tune (_Come, Heavy Sleep_). More tonally speaking, Carlo Domeniconi's _Koyunbaba_ is a popular and exotic piece, if perhaps not as dense.

Not sure if it counts as 'chamber music', but there's always Schoenberg's solo piano works like op 19, 23, & 25.


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## Head_case

Ohh.

Morgan Szymanski plays to pretty large chambers 






Funny enough, I tried one of the guitars he's playing concert with. My goodness. If I thought guitars without amps were quiet, these classical guitars blew away my preconceptions. They are built larger and bigger than standard (folk?) guitars.

Back to modern chamber repertoire - sometimes it'a s real pleasure to discover that cross between cultures which happens with the modern era: in this case, a fusion between the Ural and Turkish culture with that of the magnificent German symphony:










The two string quartets and string trio are played with intensely focussed sensitivity by the Gémeaux Quartet. Ponnelle himself has brought Mahler, Bruckner and German music to the brink of the ex-Soviet Baskiria in the Urals, removed from such European influences. His first string quartet hails from 2005 and was recorded as recently as 2009. First listen to the disc and it is mindblowing. I bought it on the strength of the Diapason D'Or review:



> Le quatuor à cordes : s'agirait-il de ce genre velouté qui fait célébrer à quatre messieurs âgés des oeuvres de compositeurs, eux aussi âgés, ou tout du moins défraîchis depuis belle lurette ? Pas dans le cas du Gémeaux-Quartett, qui se manifeste chez GENUIN avec un enregistrement de main de maître, à la fois fougueux et tendre, de trois oeuvre de Pierre-Dominique Ponnelle : il s'agit là d'une culture du quatuor hautement sophistiquée, et de sonorités qui se situent quelque part entre avant-garde et steppes de l'Asie centrale, entre liberté d'improvisation et extrême rigueur. Des premiers enregistrements mondiaux d'un genre tout particulier : dans ces quatuors à cordes rutilants, pas de traces du moindre grain de poussière !


Impeccably engineered. Not music for the faint of heart - this is hair-raising music but if you're curious and daring and want complete immersion into contemporary chamber music, without abandoning the classicism [he uses the B-A-C-H motif throughout the explosive first string quartet], then you won't be disappointed.


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## Noak

Chamber Music Vol.1-Taku Sugimoto, Taku Unami, and Masahiko Okura (Hibari Music)

Can't seem to find any sample anywhere, but it's a great set of recordings.


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