# Is Thomas Adès the best opera composer alive?



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm approaching him from the operatic standpoint... although some of his other works are equally striking.

Is he the real thing? The one who will be remembered side by side with the greats of the past, 100 years from now?

Or is it Saariaho? She's strong competition, for sure.

I don't think it's Glass. Wouldn't bet on Adams either, God, no! Tan Dun? Nah. Corigliano? His one opera (unless we also consider _The Naked Carmen_ to be an opera) is very good but then he stopped, while Adès is young and may still compose many others after his two hits on the mark with _Powder her Face_ and _The Tempest._

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on Adès. His compositions seem to be rich in ideas, varied, stimulating, inventive.

But I'm no expert in contemporary music so I'd like to hear some opinions or other names.

What do you all think? World Violist, what do you say?


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

What about Harrison Birtwistle? Composer of Punch and Judy, Sir Gawain and The Minotaur


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jflatter said:


> What about Harrison Birtwistle? Composer of Punch and Judy, Sir Gawain and The Minotaur


I don't know any of these. Should I explore them? Tell me more about them, please.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It can't be said that Ades hasn't made a very promising start with his overall output so far, not just opera. Releasing two operas relatively early in his career seems to reflect faith in his own abilities (rather than showing off and being a bit too smart which he has been accused of occasionally like Britten before him) and in the case of Powder Her Face this was totally justified - I think it's an excellent work. I haven't heard The Tempest yet. I think it'll probably need another couple or so more operas to emerge from his pen before we can say for sure how good he really is but he's got off to a flyer, whether it be with opera or anything else. I only hope he doesn't get carried away by the adulation he's received and becomes more prolific than he needs to be but he seems to be his own man so hopefully he'll write when he wants and not because he feels he has to.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I know a fan of John Adams who might weigh in on the contrary, but I personally can't say.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

science said:


> I know a fan of John Adams who might weigh in on the contrary, but I personally can't say.


I'm not a big fan of Adams' but of course I respect the taste of those who are.
Personally, I find Adès much more inventive.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> I'm not a big fan of Adams' but of course I respect the taste of those who are.
> Personally, I find Adès much more inventive.


I like some of Adam's other music more than his operas. Of his vocal works I like "El Nino" - which is more an oratorio than an opera (although I believe it has been semi-staged) the most. Adés is unfamilar territory to me.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Mark Anthony Turnage might be a contender. His new opera, _Anna Nicole_, has just opened at London's Royal Opera House. His previous operas, _Greek_ (1988), _Country of the Blind_ (1997) and _The Silver Tassie_ (1999), have all done well. Turnage has a natural aptitude for DRAMA (surely a 'must' for a good opera and something Philip Glass's miserably dull efforts lack totally).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Turnage has a natural aptitude for DRAMA (surely a 'must' for a good opera and something Philip Glass's miserably dull efforts lack totally).[/QUOTE]


I've put up with Glass' 'Akhnaten' pretty easily as it's 'only' about 2 and a bit hours long. I think I'd lose the will to live if I had to sit through the 4+ hours of 'Einstein on the Beach', though.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I actually haven't heard much Adès beyond a small clip of an orchestral piece I saw on Youtube and really didn't like; it seemed entirely based on orchestral color boundaries and made no musical sense to me whatsoever. I've thought about getting The Tempest in the past, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to listen with an open mind just yet (that orchestral piece was really terrible to me...).

I haven't heard any of Kalevi Aho's opera (since none of it has ever been recorded... silly record companies, I thought BIS was out to record _all_ his music), and he's written four or five. Just from hearing his orchestral music and how dramatic and colorful it is, I wouldn't doubt he's a masterful opera composer.

Saariaho seems like a force to be reckoned with as well. She's written a decent few operas apart from L'amour de loin, and they've been received very well indeed.

Then there's another composer I haven't heard much of but who's been raved about: Pascal Dusapin, who has written several operas and is sorta young (mid-50s).


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I don't know any of these. Should I explore them? Tell me more about them, please.


Probably best if I link a couple of amazon reviews for Punch & Judy and Gawain. Punch & Judy was regarded as deeply subversive at the time it was written. I won't pretend that this is easy music. Both these reviews generally encapsulate the pieces well ans therefore save me typing time. You can of course check out Youtube. I saw the Minotaur live about three years ago and that was interesting and I understand that its back in London next year.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/RPKDTPY4D0T8W/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RPKDTPY4D0T8W

hhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B000PHVXXQ/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Punch & Judy - singular enough to make Britten and Pears leave well before the end on opening night. Although there are supposed to be elements of humour in it I find it a pretty bleak and disturbing work (but absorbing nonetheless).


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Thank you all, guys, you've mentioned some very interesting ideas for my next explorations!

@World_Violist - I think you need to get _Powder Your Face_, I really liked it, and since our tastes for contemporary/modernist opera have overlapped quite a bit lately in terms of your suggestions for me, do try my suggestion for you.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Almaviva said:


> @World_Violist - I think you need to get _Powder Your Face_, I really liked it, and since our tastes for contemporary/modernist opera have overlapped quite a bit lately in terms of your suggestions for me, do try my suggestion for you.


I'll get it when I've got the money to. It looks rather strange compared to the other operas I've heard, but yes, I'll give it a go.


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## 1648 (Mar 4, 2011)

I think it's too early to tell.

Right now I'd favor Saariaho, Birtwistle, Henze, Reimann and Rihm over him.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Juste Retour said:


> In truth Ades and Adams are no competition at all for Saariaho, They are mere entertainers who want to be celebrities and whose music is Broadway musical - she is serious thoughtful and expressive.


I know neither Adams' nor Saariaho's works so I cannot comment on them but I do have Thomas Adès' The Tempest.










I have to say that this amazing recording does not remind me of a Broadway musical.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Juste Retour said:


> In truth Ades and Adams are no competition at all for Saariaho, They are mere entertainers who want to be celebrities and whose music is Broadway musical - she is serious thoughtful and expressive.


Oh, brother...


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I have the Adès operas and while they are quite good I question whether he comes near to striking me as being anywhere as interesting as Osvaldo Golijov or Pascal Dusapin. Seriously, for my money Jake Heggie looks more promising than Adès considering not only his recent acclaimed operatic works, but also his wealth of art songs.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I'm approaching him from the operatic standpoint... although some of his other works are equally striking.
> 
> Is he the real thing? The one who will be remembered side by side with the greats of the past, 100 years from now?
> 
> ...


Sorry for digging up this post, but I have to use it as a catharsis after watching a few clips on you tube with Adès opera Tempest and the makeup her face one (forgot its name). 
My temporal cortex was deeply scorched. It is true I sometimes sing similar tunes invented out of the blue, but I am careful to be alone.
I have to confess I quickly used an antidote that restored my damaged hearing (Ferruccio Furlanetto singing La calunnia's aria).
For other possible patients:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Sabrina... you clearly don't appear to be a Modernist. There are far more "scorching" operatic works out there than anything by Thomas Ades.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sabrina, modernist and contemporary operas will make little sense if you just see fragments on YouTube. Watch the entire thing so that you can form your opinion - you may not like it after you see it, and that's fine, but passing judgment after watching a few fragments in my humble opinion is not the best way to get into a work's structure and to immerse yourself into what is being accomplished. I believe that both these operas are excellent. Give them a chance by watching then whole. Then if it's not your cup of tea, fine.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

So Alma... who would be your choice for greatest living operatic composer at this time?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> So Alma... who would be your choice for greatest living operatic composer at this time?


 Well, St. Luke's, while I still like Adès a lot, I got to know Birtwistle after my original post above, and I confess that I was mightily impressed. _The Minotaur _is a spectacular masterpiece. I saw your suggestions above but I haven't explored them yet. Regarding Turnage, I got _Anna Nicole_ but is still in my unwatched pile. So for now only Birtwistle and Saariaho would be able to dislodge Adès in my appreciation since I don't care as much for the other opera composers still alive that I know. The bottom line is that all three are very good. I have to explore other contemporary composers to be able to make up my mind, given the numerous suggestions I gathered from this thread.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I liked the orchestra part (not too much), but the arias, the plot was not for me, now. The sex scene was weird. I wonder how could the poor tenor sing after that.
I stick to Puccini, Rossini, Mozart, et al.
I really love some fashion in clothes and decorations. Music is different. I attended live concerts with dodecaphonic/atonal music. I enjoyed only parts of those compositions. I would not compare those styles to Beethoven, Mozart et comp. It's like comparing Kandinsky to Monet. I like some Kandinsky, but not everything he painted. But I love Van Gogh and his friend Gaugin


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Sabrina, modernist and contemporary operas will make little sense if you just see fragments on YouTube. Watch the entire thing so that you can form your opinion - you may not like it after you see it, and that's fine, but passing judgment after watching a few fragments in my humble opinion is not the best way to get into a work's structure and to immerse yourself into what is being accomplished. I believe that both these operas are excellent. Give them a chance by watching then whole. Then if it's not your cup of tea, fine.


I bought La Cenerntola, after viewing 1 (one) clip on YouTube (it was Zitto, zitto, piano piano). It was enough. When i got the DVD I was mesmerized.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> I bought La Cenerntola, after viewing 1 (one) clip on YouTube (it was Zitto, zitto, piano piano). It was enough. When i got the DVD I was mesmerized.


 Sure, but what I meant is that modernist and contemporary operas are fragmented affairs with disrupted music, but when you stick around and get into the mood, it starts to make sense. If you watch a blockbuster belcanto aria it can work as a good fragment - like a trailer - to spike your appetite for the work. But when you watch a fragment of a contemporary opera, it's more likely that you'll get turned off (which is what happened) but it is no proof that the whole work wouldn't be able to please you after you get passed the initial shock of the unfamiliar sounds.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Now I am listening to Harrison Birtwistle' Minotaur. The whole opera is on youtube. It is much better then what I listened/viewed from Adès. I am sure I don't like Adès. Maybe I tolerate Birtwistle because I like Greek Mithology. Anyway the music matches the plot. A lot better, though maybe not enough for spending money on it.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

The problem I would have is that I can't think of a single living composer who has produced a decent number of operas that are clearly quite good. Thomas Adès has two strong efforts... and he's quite young. But I don't think either of them rivals Pascal Dusapin's _Perelà, Uomo di Fumo_... unfortunately none of his other operas appear to be available in recordings. I feel the same is true of Osvaldo Golijov's _Ainadamar_... but in this instance this appears to have been the composer's only operatic effort as of the present. I still haven't gotten around to exploring Kaija Saariaho's _L'Amour de Loin_ which I suspect I will quite like considering what I know of her other works as well as the praise lavished on the work here. I haven't really liked anything I've heard by Birtwhistle... so I suspect the last remaining possibility might be Philip Glass... of those I've heard enough of to offer some opinion.

Of those I haven't heard enough of... there's Carlisle Floyd who has several operas... including Susanna:











Other possibilities include Louis Andriessen, Wolfgang Rihm, Tobias Picker (who has at least three operas that I know of in recording: _Emmaline, An American Tragedy_, and _Therese Raquin_), Hans Werner Henze (_Pollicino: A Musical Fairy Tale_ and _The Raft of the Medusa_), Jake Heggie (who has at least three operas that I know of: _Three Decembers, Dead Man Walking_, and _Moby Dick_... and a sizable collection of stunningly beautiful "art songs"), Leonardo Balada (who has four operas available of Naxos: _Cristobal Colon, La Muerte de Colón, Hangman! Hangman!_ and _The Town of Greed_), James MacMillan (_The Sacrifice_), and there's Salvatore Sciarrino and who knows how many other Italian, French, German, etc... composers.

It's embarrassing how many acclaimed contemporary operas I have yet to hear... but then I'm still playing catch-up with many of the unquestionable "classics" of the past.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

sabrina said:


> Now I am listening to Harrison Birtwistle' Minotaur. The whole opera is on youtube. It is much better then what I listened/viewed from Adès. I am sure I don't like Adès. *Maybe I tolerate Birtwistle because I like Greek Mithology*. Anyway the music matches the plot. A lot better, though maybe not enough for spending money on it.


You should try _The Mask of Orpheus_, then. 

About who is 'the best' opera composer today, of course it will depend on taste. If we think about prestige and exposure, I'd say Hans Werner Henze. My personal favourite will be Salvatore Sciarrino.

For a small cycle of informal lectures, we chose a list of contemporary 'fundamental operas' (understanding by contemporary, being premiered in the last 50 years), and prepared a basic presentation of each one. This was the list:

_*Montezuma*_ 1964	Roger Sessions
_*Die Soldaten*_ 1965	Bernd Alois Zimmermann
_*Antony and Cleopatra*_ 1966	Samuel Barber
_*The Bassarids*_ 1966	Hans Werner Henze
_*Die Teufel von Loudon *_ 1969	Krzysztof Penderecki 
_*Der Besuch Der Alten Dame*_ 1971	Gottfried von Einem
_*Death in Venice*_ 1973	Benjamin Britten
_*Dead Souls*_ 1976	Rodion Shchedrin
_*Le Grand Macabre*_ 1978	György Ligeti
_*Lear*_ 1978	Aribert Reimann
_*Saint François d'Assise*_ 1983	Olivier Messiaen
_*Atalanta*_ 1985	Robert Ashley
_*The Mask of Orpheus*_ 1986	Harrison Birtwistle
_*Nixon in China*_ 1987	John Adams
_*A Night at the Chinese Opera*_ 1987	Judith Weir
_*Die Eroberung von Mexico*_ 1991	Wolfgang Rihm
_*Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern*_ 1996	Helmut Lachenmann
_*Luci mie traditrici*_ 1998	Salvatore Sciarrino
_*L'amour de loin*_ 2000	Kaija Saariaho
_*Shadowtime*_ 2005	Brian Ferneyhough

Of course, there can be additions or deletions, according to different criteria.

Maybe we can try to do something similar in TC. I mean, one member could select one contemporary opera from an agreed list, and present this opera here during one month, or so. There is a lot of material available on the web for repertoire operas, but not so much for this kind of operas (at least, not for all of them), so perhaps could be interesting.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

schigolch said:


> You should try _The Mask of Orpheus_, then.
> 
> About who is 'the best' opera composer today, of course it will depend on taste. If we think about prestige and exposure, I'd say Hans Werner Henze. My personal favourite will be Salvatore Sciarrino.
> 
> ...


I do think that Dr. Atomic should be part of that list. Sure, it mainly consists of angsty scientists singing pretentious poetry, but I quite like it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I like it a lot, too. 

In fact, in my personal list, it will be included, for sure.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm familiar with a few in schigolch's list (four of them, with two more in my unwatched/unlistened to pile) but before I explore more heavily contemporary and modernist opera, I still have some old timers that I need to get to know (similar problem encountered by St.Luke's - some examples: Francesca da Rimini, Lucio Silla, Giovana d'Arco, Beatrice di Tenda, Giuditta, Linda di Chamounix, etc.). For the last year or so I've been involved in a sort of personal project to complete my opera education by eliminating the most glaring gaps, and I have a loosely organized list of goals. There is also what I call my "French Project" which has been long in the making (about two years now) and hard to finish, since the more I advance, the less available the remaining operas are - 56 have been watched/listened to, 29 to go, of the 85 that I selected for this. Once I feel satisfied with my exposure to the most important operas composed in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries (and hopefully get closer to the end of the French Project), I'll turn my full attention to the 20th and 21st centuries. It's not that I haven't listened to 20th-21th century stuff - not counting the more obvious 20th century composers like Puccini, Richard Strauss, and Britten, I've explored some 50 operas composed in the last 110 years - but a big problem is that often I only know one or two works by each of the most recent composers I've tried to explore - there is so much stuff!!! And the availability of these works is not even close to that of the old timers. Often you can only find YouTube clips, and I confess that watching a full opera on YouTube is definitely not my cup of tea. I like the total immersion of using the full capacity of my home theater and watching an opera for 2-3 hours on my laptop with grainy image that freezes at times and with mediocre sound can't compare.

I agree that Dr. Atomic is - at least for me - a lot more interesting than Nixon in China.

@St.Luke's: Ainadamar has arrived in the mail and is sitting pretty on top of the unwatched/unlistened to pile.

@schigolch: no love for Poulenc? Edit, oh, OK, I missed the 50 years part, his operas fall right outside of your range.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> ... I confess that watching a full opera on YouTube is definitely not my cup of tea. I like the total immersion of using the full capacity of my home theater and watching an opera for 2-3 hours on my laptop with grainy image that freezes at times and with mediocre sound can't compare....


The list is not 100% "my list", and is perhaps a little bit too unbalanced towards the avantgarde kind of contemporary opera. 

Just for the sake of curiosity, why don't you connect your laptop to the home theater equipment?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Aksel said:


> . . . angsty scientists singing pretentious poetry . . .


Nothing wrong with that. Especially when there's beer involved!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

So Alma, since you set individual listening projects for yourself, I was wondering if there have been similar projects for the forum to participate in as a group? Sort of like an Oprah's (or in this case Opera's) Book Club, where all those who want to participate would work their way through a list of predetermined operas on a set schedule, then discuss their reactions work by work? It would be a fun and helpful way for me, personally, to get more familiar with, say, more of the 20th/21st-century opera repertoire.

A big difficulty of course, would be access to recordings--people would either have to purchase all the works, which could be prohibitive, or find CD/DVD copies at their local libraries, which could be futile, especially with a more esoteric repertoire. 

Sigh . . . I'm not sure how or if we could surmount that barrier, so on second thought maybe such a project would only work out for the most well-off among us--of which I, sadly, cannot count myself.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

amfortas said:


> So Alma, since you set individual listening projects for yourself, I was wondering if there have been similar projects for the forum to participate in as a group? Sort of like an Oprah's (or in this case Opera's) Book Club, where all those who want to participate would work their way through a list of predetermined operas on a set schedule, then discuss their reactions work by work? It would be a fun and helpful way for me, personally, to get more familiar with, say, more of the 20th/21st-century opera repertoire.


It's a nice idea, but the problem I might have with that is one of mood and whimsy. I have a lot of things in life that I *must* do, and opera is one of the few things (along with reading) where I can follow my own desires and go where my inclination leads me at any one time. I'd hate it to become another chore.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

amfortas said:


> Nothing wrong with that. Especially when there's beer involved!


I don't either! I just think it's a very apt description of it. And it makes me chuckle.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I think this could be a good idea. We could start by one opera, easy to find, and see how it goes. If it's instructive and funny, we go for the second. If not, we just stop there.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Nowadays we have a CD/DVD Catalogue of Operas at our disposal, that was ten-fifteen years ago unimaginable. When William Christie brushes up a forgotten gem from the French Baroque, it is something that is happening *'in our time'*. What I don't like on modern operas is this dogmatic claim that is glued within the very concept of being 'modern'. Actually many things that took place in the sixties of the 20th century are to me more deadish & long long ago, than things that took place in, say, the first half of the 18th century. So I would like to see this claim of being 'modern' to be dropped. Why should the hippy sixties *have to* be closer to me than the wigpowdered 18th century?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, amfortas and schigolch, it's a very good idea, especially when done in a less ambitious way like schigolch has suggested (one opera at a time), which could very well eliminate Nat's objection. We could involve as many people as possible, vote to select which work to see and discuss, and give ourselves the time to acquire it (by various means - library, purchase, online streaming, Netflix), watch it, and discuss it in detail - including characteristics of the opera itself such as musical structure, pace, theatrical impact, libretto, notable parts, etc, and characteristics of the production - stage direction, scenarios, costumes, concept, acting, singing, conducting, orchestral playing.

By the way, I've done this kind of thing with the online courses (with discussion board between students and faculty) of Opera America. It's fun and very informative.

It's high time to make of this place not only a space for fun discussions and interactions, but also a place for structured, in-depth learning.

By now, we have a significant corps of members with enough expertise. We have musicians, we even have a professional soprano (I hope she can participate), and we have people who have demonstrated scholarly knowledge of opera. We could make of each of these discussions (we'd have one thread for each opera, and would run it for a long time - at the very least several weeks) a sort of reference of accumulated expertise about a specific opera/production, that could be consulted by present and future members and visitors as a resource.

I'm willing to coordinate the implementation of this project, but to make it really fruitful we'll need the full and frequent participation of folks who have advanced expertise (I don't include myself there - I'm just a fan, still with limited exposure, and I'm not a musician).

So, let's do it. I'll start a thread.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a question regarding the living composers. Is at least one of them known who writes opera in the belcanto style, or close to it? I sometimes like atonal music (not opera), but I find it like somebody is trying to cheat. It is much easier to throw in some notes, cluttered around whatever melody, then creating different levels in harmony. 
I can't believe all living composers embraced this style.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Well there's Andre Previn's _Streetcar Named Desire_:











Then there's the Mexican Daniel Catan who just died a couple of months back. His operas _Rappaccini's Daughter_ (based on the tale by Hawthorne), Il Postino, and _Florencia en el Amazonas_ all of which are unabashedly beautiful:











Of course, no serious contemporary composer is going to write an opera in the belcanto style any more than a serious painter would paint in the style of Rembrandt... not unless it were intended as a sort of ironic pastiche. Previn and Catan are both rooted in late Romanticism... drawing upon elements of Strauss, Puccini, Wagner, Debussy and jazz and American Romanticism in the case of Previn and Latin-American rhythms and Magic-Realism in the case of Catan. The old adage, "They don't make 'em like that anymore," is true for the simple reason that today's artists/composers have grown up under far different circumstances and been exposed to far different musical influences than the great belcanto composers. Not all contemporary opera or classical composers embrace avante gard ideas and atonalism and reject traditional tonality and melody. Check also into the songs of Jake Heggie (I highly recommend this disc:










Seriously, I think a lot of people are put off from exploring almost any contemporary "classical" music because of the snobbish attitude held by some, dismissive of all but the most esoteric and experimental. In reality, I think that if someone does a bit of exploration they will find that there's a lot of contemporary classical music that is unabashedly beautiful... and with time... these individuals may begin to explore further... discovering that a lot of the more "experimental" work out there isn't as scary as they've been led to believe.

who has produced a number of highly acclaimed operas as well:


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Thank you for your wonderful answer! I heard about some of these operas but I've never listened to any of them yet. Talking about Il Postino, I watched a movie with the same title, that touched me, more than almost any other movie I've seen. Beyond the storyline, it's the story of Massimo Troisi playing il postino, who struggled to finish the shooting (heart failure), and died the day after the camera stopped rolling. He was aware of his condition, but considered the film more important.









The opera was based on this Italian movie.

I uploaded a picture but it disappeared after some time. Witches flying around? Maybe Harry Potter is hovering over this site.

HAHAHA, the image came back!!!


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

TxllxT said:


> Nowadays we have a CD/DVD Catalogue of Operas at our disposal, that was ten-fifteen years ago unimaginable. When William Christie brushes up a forgotten gem from the French Baroque, it is something that is happening *'in our time'*. What I don't like on modern operas is this dogmatic claim that is glued within the very concept of being 'modern'. Actually many things that took place in the sixties of the 20th century are to me more deadish & long long ago, than things that took place in, say, the first half of the 18th century. So I would like to see this claim of being 'modern' to be dropped. Why should the hippy sixties *have to* be closer to me than the wigpowdered 18th century?


In my opinion, much of the music (not only opera) being composed today, has more in common with the Baroque or the Renaissance, that with the Romantic or post Romantic era.

This is what appears not 'modern' to many people creating music, those Romantic overtones that many times are taken for granted.

Just think about the interest that composers like Carlo Gesualdo awaken today. In the last 15 years or so, how many operas on the subject have been premiered: _Luci mie traditrici_, by Sciarrino, _The Prince of Venosa_, by Scott Glasgow, the _Gesualdos_ from Schnittke, Franz Hummerl or Marc-André Dalbavie...

Those operas are closer to the 16th or the 17th century, than to Wagner, or Strauss, or Puccini.

On the other hand, I agree that some operas from the '60s or '70s do seem kind of outdated, time has not been generous to them.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm bumping up this thread after having seen/heard a few more contemporary operas -The Minotaur (Birtwistle), Ainadamar (Golijov), Luci mie traditrici (Sciarrino), Boulevard Solitude (Henze), and L'Upupa (Henze), all five excellent in my opinion.

Sciarrino and Henze have grown in my appreciation after that - Golijov is good but probably not at the same level. Birtwistle is very good too but I need to explore him more.

Probably I'd place at least Henze ahead of Adès for now, if not Sciarrino too (although I only know this one opera from him). Now I have St.François D'Assise on my UWP so soon I'll be checking out another one from these suggestions.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Probably I'd place at least Henze ahead of Adès for now, if not Sciarrino too . . .


First Anna, now Adès. You are *so* fickle.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> First Anna, now Adès. You are *so* fickle.


L'uomo è mobile.


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