# Opera



## 8j1010 (Aug 29, 2020)

This probably has already been posted but I think I'm gonna post it anyway. I've heard a lot of things about opera, and I've watched none of them (although I did listen to 2 minutes of Wagner before deciding I didn't like it), but I don't understand why some people listen to more opera than anything else. My opinion so far is that it's just another category of theater. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting into opera, because I feel like I'm missing the point. Are you supposed to pay attention to the music, or the story?


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## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

There is a thread on the "journey to opera" made by some posters on this board that may address your question:

https://www.talkclassical.com/65667-your-journey-opera.html?highlight=journey+to+opera


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## 8j1010 (Aug 29, 2020)

Ok I'll go check this out right now!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Please report back on your impressions from the Journey to Opera thread. 

In my opinion you need to find an opera with a story you like and that is musically appealing to you. Then get a good video production with subtitles so you can follow along with the story.

Wagner is probably not the best starting point for entry into opera.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

SixFootScowl said:


> Wagner is probably not the best starting point for entry into opera.


For most people, perhaps. For me, it's what got me hooked.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

SixFootScowl said:


> Wagner is probably not the best starting point for entry into opera.


Der Ring Des Nibelungen is precisely where i started listen to classical music and opera. Wagner is the best option to understanding music sooner as possible, because his way of musical narrative seems based on linguistics; as you read the subtitles and hear the music changing to follow the story, then you begin to figure out how sound and music work.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

amfortas said:


> For most people, perhaps. For me, it's what got me hooked.


Exactly the same case. I struggled a lot with opera and it was Wagner's Ring which got me totally hooked!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

annaw said:


> Exactly the same case. I struggled a lot with opera and it was Wagner's Ring which got me totally hooked!


Maria Callas and Verdi got me started.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Wagner is my favorite composer, but I still wouldn't recommend his operas as a starting point, though apparently that works for some.

I got into opera with _Carmen_ .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

If you are interested in music then Mozart would be a good place to start. Marriage of Figaro perhaps? Or maybe Bizet's Carmen.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> If you are interested in music then Mozart would be a good place to start. Marriage of Figaro perhaps? Or maybe Bizet's Carmen.


My advice: don't rely on any one work. Try a number of operas, of different periods and styles, before throwing in the towel.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

amfortas said:


> My advice: don't rely on any one work. Try a number of operas, of different periods and styles, before throwing in the towel.


Definitely! There is so much variety that you would have to try maybe ten different operas to just get a proper glimpse.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

If you like similar 20th-century music, Wozzeck might be an interesting entry point!

I think one of the most flawlessly-realized operas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

It's very hard to suggest a starting point to someone when you don't know what other music that person enjoys and we all have different stories about our "way in". If someone had sugested I listen to *Wozzeck* as a first entry point, I'd probably have gven up before the end, though I may have felt differently if I'd seen a really good production in the theatre.

Ultimately nothing beats seeing opera on stage in an actual theatre with an audience collectively and attentively enjoying the performance. Unfortunately that is not possible at the moment and DVD is a poor substitute, though invaluable for those who already have the bug.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I suggest starting with the music. What period is your favourite when it comes to classical music? I then suggest listening to arias and choruses by composers from that period. Do you like non operatic vocal music? If you like Mozart or Haydn masses, try Mozart opera ensembles and arias. Into Schubert? Bellini might be your thing. Like Mahler? Listen to Wagner, you get the idea. Let us know your favourite composers and we can suggest opera composers and arias to explore. I would suggest listening to excerpts before trying a complete opera and seeing if there are any pieces you like. If you find an opera composer whose music you like, then you can explore their most famous operas and see if the blend of music and theatre is your thing.

N.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

The Conte said:


> I suggest starting with the music. What period is your favourite when it comes to classical music? I then suggest listening to arias and choruses by composers from that period. Do you like non operatic vocal music? If you like Mozart or Haydn masses, try Mozart opera ensembles and arias. Into Schubert? Bellini might be your thing. Like Mahler? Listen to Wagner, you get the idea. Let us know your favourite composers and we can suggest opera composers and arias to explore. I would suggest listening to excerpts before trying a complete opera and seeing if there are any pieces you like. If you find an opera composer whose music you like, then you can explore their most famous operas and see if the blend of music and theatre is your thing.


Good advice. But another approach might be, what sort of books/plays/movies do you like? Light romantic comedies? See Donizetti's _L'Elisir d'Amore_. Sentimental tearjerkers? Puccini's _La Boheme_. Historical melodrama? _Tosca_. Shakespearean tragedy? Verdi's _Otello_. _Lord of the Rings_-type sword-and-sorcery fantasy? Wagner's _Ring._ Sad Russian novels? Tchaikovsky's _Eugene Onegin_. Period comedies of manners? Mozart's _Nozze di Figaro_ or Strauss's _Der Rosenkavalier_. And if you're a fan of Hitchcock's _Vertigo_, check out Korngold's _Die Tote Stadt_.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Ulfilas said:


> If you like similar 20th-century music, Wozzeck might be an interesting entry point!
> 
> I think one of the most flawlessly-realized operas.


Pardon? Last time I saw that I felt like throwing myself off the nearest bridge!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

DavidA said:


> Pardon? Last time I saw that I felt like throwing myself off the nearest bridge!


Perhaps Wozzeck is meant to make you feel like that. It's certainly one of the bleakest operas ever.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> Der Ring Des Nibelungen is precisely where i started listen to classical music and opera.


Same here, with a set of Solti's _Siegfried_ borrowed from my local music library. It was on mono LP's, too - a relic of the time when Decca still issued both mono and stereo versions of their records.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If someone had sugested I listen to *Wozzeck* as a first entry point, I'd probably have gven up before the end, though I may have felt differently if I'd seen a really good production in the theatre.


I took some "opera virgin" friends to see _Wozzeck_, and they were totally captivated. Ditto my 12 year-old nephew, although he was already well acquainted with opera by then.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I took some "opera virgin" friends to see _Wozzeck_, and they were totally captivated. Ditto my 12 year-old nephew, although he was already well acquainted with opera by then.


No accounting for taste


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Perhaps Wozzeck is meant to make you feel like that. It's certainly one of the bleakest operas ever.


Toss up between that and Death of a Salesman


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

8j1010 said:


> This probably has already been posted but I think I'm gonna post it anyway. I've heard a lot of things about opera, and I've watched none of them (although I did listen to 2 minutes of Wagner before deciding I didn't like it), but I don't understand why some people listen to more opera than anything else. My opinion so far is that it's just another category of theater. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting into opera, because I feel like I'm missing the point.


I'd suggest compilation discs of opera so it is easy to sample a mixture of composers, works and performers.

There are quite a lot about and have titles like 'The Best Opera Album In The World Ever', 'The Only Opera Album You'll Ever Need', '100 Best Opera Classics' etc.

After that, you could choose which particular operas or singers you'd like to focus on and try a highlights disc of the best-bits from the operas you enjoy (or an album by a singer you like).

If you are still interested after that, you could check out the complete opera to hear how it all works together as drama.



> Are you supposed to pay attention to the music, or the story?


The first thing you will notice is the music and how it makes you feel.

Later, if you get into listening to longer pieces of music, you will find some singers and conductors can make the bits in-between the famous arias interesting as well: this depends on your personal taste.

By that point you are starting to enjoy how the operas hang together as drama, and how the pieces combine to tell the story.

Lots of luck: hope you enjoy whatever you choose to sample


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## DeGustibus (Aug 7, 2020)

Revitalized Classics said:


> I'd suggest compilation discs of opera so it is easy to sample a mixture of composers, works and performers.
> 
> There are quite a lot about and have titles like 'The Best Opera Album In The World Ever', 'The Only Opera Album You'll Ever Need', '100 Best Opera Classics' etc.
> 
> ...


This is a very good suggestiion. "Opera Goes to the Movies" was one of my gateways into opera.


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## 8j1010 (Aug 29, 2020)

Update:
I've listened to a little over an hour of Das Rhinegold. So far it's incredible. I thought I hated Wagner, but the music is amazing! Renunciation of Love stood out to me, although it's just a 20 second leitmotif. When Loge (I think it's Loge) came in and sang the story of Alberich taking the gold, and the Renunciation of Love was played, I listened to that 10 seconds of music at least 5 times. It's 57:17 into this production, but the link there should take you right there.




edit: the video link seems to just be randomly picking between 57 minutes and 1 hour.


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Happy to hear that you are liking Rheingold so far. Like other people who commented to this thread, I to got the opera bug from the Ring Cycle. In my first listen of Rheingold, I was really infatuated by the Rhine River, giants, and spear motifs. I wish you the best of luck in your Wagner journey if you continue on with the other Ring operas.

If you are looking to get a taste of what other operas and composers sound like, definitely explore some other operas such as those by Mozart, Rossini, and Verdi. You might already be familiar with overtures to operas by Mozart and Rossini through concert repertoire, so trying out some operas like Marriage of Figaro or Barber of Seville is not a bad idea if you like what you hear.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

DavidA said:


> No accounting for taste


No accounting for a sense of adventure.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Great, good to know that you like Rheingold. In which case keep on exploring the Ring and then onto Tristan und Isolde and Parsifal. If you like all that, but want to try something a bit different I would suggest Puccini and Strauss as your next ports of call.

N.


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## 8j1010 (Aug 29, 2020)

I left a question, but now I understand your comment. So I'm just replacing that question with this .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> No accounting for a sense of adventure.


Well if you count an adventure exploring the worst parts of human nature


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

DavidA said:


> Pardon? Last time I saw that I felt like throwing myself off the nearest bridge!


Only felt, DavidA?.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Barbebleu said:


> Only felt, DavidA?.


Well there was a sign saying 'No litter'


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