# Is Brahms’ Clarinet Quintet overrated?



## RogerWaters

I’ve been listening to Brahms for about four years now and find the quintet somewhat meandering, like it never hits home and says ‘anything’, a bit like overly adjectival prose or something. I like the clarinet sonatas much more, and the beautiful horn trio.


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## Art Rock

Tastes differ. Many think it's a masterpiece (like I do), some don't hear it. It happens with every piece of music. Overrated is a very overrated word.


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## RogerWaters

Art Rock said:


> Tastes differ. Many think it's a masterpiece (like I do), some don't hear it. It happens with every piece of music. Overrated is a very overrated word.


Perhaps a better question would have been simply 'do you think it is a masterpiece'?


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## Art Rock

Yes, it would have been better imo. 

I don't think you can edit the poll title, but I can if you want me to.


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## Kreisler jr

I can understand that people don'the like the persisting melancholy mood but it is a great masterpiece and rated as such. As any mature or late Brahms it's not at all meandering but very tightly constructed and unified. Not as laconic as the trio which I always found tougher and less immediately appealing. Especially poignant the return of the motto theme at the end which had been prepared by the last variation.


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## Bulldog

Meandering - No.
Overrated - No.
Masterpiece - Yes.


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## Enthusiast

A work I never tire of. So beautiful. So true.


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## jegreenwood

Certainly in my top 10 chamber music works. Maybe top 5.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Not only do I consider it a masterpiece, but also a wonderful and soulful work, certainly among the top tier of my Brahms favorites.



RogerWaters said:


> I like the clarinet sonatas much more


I also like very much the Clarinet Sonata no. 2, however, I don't feel as strongly about no. 1


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## Eclectic Al

Prompted by this thread, I have just put it on.

The version I'm listening to is the Cleveland Quartet with Stoltzman, which I think someone on this site was good enough to share for free along with some other Cleveland Quartet stuff including Brahms' quartets and sextets, and the Beethoven Quartets, plus some Barber and Ives (quite legally, I believe): worth downloading if you can find the relevant thread.
My long standing version is Thea King and the Gabrlieli.

It's a gorgeous work. Out and out masterpiece.


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## Manxfeeder

I don't find it meandering; rather, to me it is ambiguous, like a statement of uncertainty. 

There's a great story about when the quintet was played for Brahms and a few friends. As a pupil of Clara Schumann described it, "When they had finished playing this heavenly work, we were all so moved that nobody found a word to say. But Nikisch fell on his knees before Brahms, and that exactly expressed our feelings."


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## Bruckner Anton

Astonishingly beautiful music


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## Merl

Beautiful piece. Certainly not meandering for me.


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## Celloman

I find it beautifully meandering, like a clear, trout-filled mountain stream.


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## hammeredklavier

A fine work, but I think certain sections in the slow movement**, Brahms may have found inspiration lacking (at least in terms of melody). For instance; 



 (although I like the bit from 3:45~4:00)

**compared to;


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## Bwv 1080

No, but Reger's is its equal


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## Bulldog

Bwv 1080 said:


> No, but Reger's is its equal


I've known the Brahms for over 50 years, the Reger only a few years. These days I'm more likely to play the Reger but much of that has to do with a little over-exposure to the Brahms on my part. Which is better? Don't know.


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## starthrower

Is Karl Leister the clarinetist to listen to for this piece? Which recording is recommended by the experts here?


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## Highwayman

starthrower said:


> Which recording is recommended by the experts here?


I feel the one with the Amadeus has gained the "reference recording" status but the rest of his recordings are fine as well. All of them are well-balanced and have decent sound. The one with the Vermeer Q is a bit different because they produce a gentle even feeble sound therefore Leister really shines there. There is also a live recording with Zapolski Q on YT which is also very fine.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Agreed with Highwayman on the Leister/Vermeer recording; it is mellow, burnished, and exquisite. Also Shifrin/Emerson and either of the two old Kell/Busch recordings are wonderful. As for the work itself, the only Brahms chamber works I prefer to it nowadays are the Piano Quintet and the first Piano Trio. The movements are maybe all a bit homogeneous in mood - but oh, what a mood it is! The opening melody of the third movement is one of those inexplicable Brahmsian beauties.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Love it. One of my favorite chamber pieces by any composer. Don't really care about its rating, all that matters is that I love it.


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## Brahmsian Colors

starthrower said:


> Is Karl Leister the clarinetist to listen to for this piece? Which recording is recommended by the experts here?


Leister is an outstanding clarinetist. My preferred interpretation of his is with the Leipzig String Quartett on the DG Gold label. Wonderful tones and balances.


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## SanAntone

The Reger is more rigorous/pedantic. IMO, the Brahms is far and away the finer work.


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## Kreisler jr

The Reger is comparably melodic and accessible _for Regerian standards_ which is a strong qualification for most listeners... Of course anyone who likes clarinet should try it but because most other Reger is so extremely thorny for most people I think the clarinet quintet has acquired a reputation ("Mozartian") that can be slightly misleading.


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## ORigel

A masterpiece, yet I prefer Mozart's Clarinet Quintet just a teeny bit over it. My favorite movement of the Brahms is the slow movement.


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## SONNET CLV

*Is Brahms' Clarinet Quintet overrated?*

It depends upon what you compare it to.

Compared to the force a nuclear explosion has to destroy a city, I'd say, yes, the Brahms is overrated. But off hand I can't think of much else that might make the comparison fall against Brahms. So let's give it a "no" for now.


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## SanAntone

Not overrated. I usually don't think about whether a work is a masterpiece or not, but would not debate the issue regarding this work.


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