# The Path to Counterpoint



## Majed Al Shamsi

Hello everyone,

So, I've asked my current teacher to teach me about counterpoint, but she said she couldn't even begin to explain it to me without going through the basics (of chord construction and rules of progression, I think.)

I won't be able to see her for the next week or two because of conflicting time schedules, so I thought perhaps I could get a head start to save time the next time I meet her.

Could you suggest a list of topics you would have me cover before learning about counterpoint, assuming that I know nothing past the construction of major/minor triads?

Much appreciated.


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## PetrB

That is somewhat nonsensical, since counterpoint is what led to 'chord progressions.' But, maybe your teacher mistook your request as wanting to learn about tonal 18th century counterpoint.

It is a good idea to start with the much earlier modal counterpoint. Some swear it is _the first thing_ one should study as the gateway into all music theory, which I believe is a valid statement but since I did not have that training plan, I can only say I think I agree with that approach.

At any rate you need to be more clear as to _what / which sort_ of counterpoint you want to study and to what kind of depth, and then your teacher can at least help you in steering you to another theory / comp teacher of at least recommend a textbook or two.

Many instrumental teachers took the typical theory courses required to graduate. They aren't theory experts -- or teachers of -- beyond the basics, and they should not be expected to be teachers of theory -- including a study of counterpoint.

P.s. in virtually each and all of your posts which are questions about literature, theory, playing, I sense a severe impatience, or some lack of awareness that there really is no quick hit "magic bullet" to get to fully know the mechanics or nuances of music literature, theory, or playing technique. It is all a very long-haul progression requiring patience and acceptance of 'where you presently are' in that learning sequence. The progression is a series of learning any one aspect, and the sequence is _cumulative_ -- at each step along the way, things learned and put into application -- there is just no quick and instant access.


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## Richannes Wrahms

I remember after learning me harmony I was like "and then what? chorale forever? melody n' block chords? counterpoint = arpeggios + ornaments?" then I looked up your typical Bach counterpoint text, still nothing. When I found about Fux it was a revelation, it made sense, I started to compose something that sounded authentically 'classical'. After that I re-learned everything again with new eyes and ears (though much more quickly than the 'first time' for obvious reasons).

The true objective of a great deal of 'musical training' is not just for the skills (which are important still!) but for gaining confidence. For that, Fux and Schoenberg's are some of the best. Piston's harmony and counterpoint 'manuals' and Alfred Mann's The Study of Fugue, among other books, may serve to fill up the gaps (in common practice). Persichetti's is essential for twentieth-century and from there one can go to many other 'advanced books'. For orchestration at least Rimsky-Korsakov's for an initial guide of timbre and Adler's for basic contemporary instrumentation are usually recommended (as well as taking some direction classes if possible). Listening and studying scores is as important as all of the above. (and contact people to look up and mark your scores)

If one has the drive to compose one just does it; everything learned, practiced, found by yourself via experimentation and whatever else related is at your service.

I hope this answer-guide-ish satisfies your anxiety. Most of the books I've mentioned are easily available, you/your teacher/s may prefer newer more expensive colourful ones that contain the same information with a similar teaching style.


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## violadude

Richannes Wrahms said:


> The true objective of a great deal of 'musical training' is not just for the skills (which are important still!) but for gaining confidence.


To add to this sentiment, which I think is spot-on, a lot of musical training is also not necessarily about learning every single rule to the point where you can recall them all off the top of your head. It's about the internalizing of those rules in a general sense to the point where you can recognize the contexts in which they work, don't work and when to fiddle with the rules (and how).


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