# Odd meter



## Sol Invictus (Sep 17, 2016)

Not too long ago, I posted a thread about furiants and it began a short but interesting discussion about rhythm and meter. From there I discovered just how "rhythm deaf" I really was and I began to think of other pieces in which I can't feel the rhythm. Due to my very limited knowledge of classical music, the only other example I could think of is "Claire de Lune." I find it remarkable how the notes sound as if they could fall almost anywhere. Are there any others who struggle understanding the meter of a composition just by listening to it?


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

When you say "odd meter" are you trying to insinuate irregular, or unusual meters? Or odd meters specifically? Because you refer to Clair de Lune which is in 9/8, which could be called an odd meter, simply because the upper number is odd, rather than even.

As for the question at the end, about being able to discern the meter just by hearing the music, I have known accomplished musicians who were not capable of doing it.


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## Sol Invictus (Sep 17, 2016)

You're right, I will clarify. Odd as in unusual not odd/even.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

no i dont have trouble but I can see how you might have more difficulty in classical music as opposed to other forms.

It is definitely easier to identify odd meters when there's a steady pulse from a drumset than how these meters may be presented in classical music (very slow tempos with no percussion will probably be the most difficult)


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## Sol Invictus (Sep 17, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> no i dont have trouble but I can see how you might have more difficulty in classical music as opposed to other forms.
> 
> It is definitely easier to identify odd meters when there's a steady pulse from a drumset than how these meters may be presented in classical music (very slow tempos with no percussion will probably be the most difficult)


If I'm not mistaken Pink Floyd's "Money" has pretty memorable guitar riff that will help you identify the 7/4 time.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

are we talking about _asymmetric_ meters??

this would be things like 5/8 [5/4], 7/8 [7/4], 11/8 [11/4] - 
where there are mixed groups of beats subdivided into 2 or 3 note groups, with the subdivision remaining constant.

Brubeck's "Take five" is a good example of asymmetric meter [5/4]
The finale of Barber's Piano Cto is in fast 5/8...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

There are composers who are almost obsessive about writing through the barline and disguising the meter, whatever it is. Brahms is famous for this and there's no shame in falling for it.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Here's an odd meter for you (and one of the best pieces ever made). Play it loud and dance!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Many of the 20th and 21st century composers have a habit of changing meter almost as often as they change notes. It's next to impossible to keep up, even if there is a discernible pulse. I can't imagine trying to count while playing, but surely the performers do somehow.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Want an odd meter? Count this one, if you can!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Another good one


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

dream theater is a ****** band but check out the track "Dance of Eternity" And read along with the time sig changes. That'll help you. It's a rock song so it has a steady pulse with drums, and probably has the most time sig changes of any pop/rock song ever recorded

edit: actually just watch this dude 




pretty enjoyable


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

The Promenade passage from Mussorgsky's Pictures changes time signature in alternate bars, yet it doesn't sound odd nor is it difficult to play.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Here's an odd meter for you (and one of the best pieces ever made). Play it loud and dance!


One of Zappa's early albums IIRC - "We're only it in it for the $$" contains a wonderful "tarantella" in 7/8 meter...tarantella [tarantula dance], is usually in compound duple, 6/8.


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## pokeefe0001 (Jan 15, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Want an odd meter? Count this one, if you can!





TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Another good one


A Bartok "Alla bulgarese" (where he's playing with Bulgarian rhythms) and Sedi Donka - a Bulgarian and Serbian folkdance. Balkan folk rhythms weren't notated much until 20th century composers like Bartok started studying them. They are not based on the duple and triple meters we've grown up with in classical music. They are (mostly) built on sets of slow and quick beats where the the slow beat is 1 1/2 to 2 times as long as the quick beat. Sedi Donka is already playing around with the rhythms. It combines two: SQQ-SQQ-QQSQQ. Bartok just goes a bit further.

And if you think there is something "unnatural" about those rhythms you need to listen to your heart. Literally. Your lub-dub lub-dub is a Bulgarian and Macedonian Pajduško rhythm where dub is about 1 1/2 times the lub. You've been living to a Balkan rhythm all your life


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