# Learning to play the organ but finding it difficult



## MisterMusicMan

I've passed my Grade 8 Piano and I'm now learning to play the organ. However, I'm finding it really difficult. I'm finding it really hard to use both the pedals and the keyboard and all the stops. Considering that I've passed my Grade 8, should I be finding the organ an easy instrument to learn or is it down to incompetence on my part that I can't get to grips with the organ?

Please be honest, I can take criticism. Cheers.


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## Krummhorn

Firstly, get yourself a tutor or teacher. It is most difficult to self-teach oneself on the organ without some proper guidance. 

There are a couple great books that will help you as well. One is by Harold Gleason and the other by John Stainer. The Gleason book is rather pricey and sometimes a used one pops up on amazon. The Stainer method is also excellent material and far cheaper. 

In the meantime, don't keep trying to master the keyboards along with the pedalboard all at once. This will only lead to great frustration ... try one hand and pedals, pedals alone, manuals alone, etc.


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## MisterMusicMan

Hi, thanks for your reply. I have got a tutor but I just can't get the hang of it. I'm even struggle to use just the pedals because my teacher advices me not to look at them.


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## n.piano21

Hey Ilovemusic,

You definately want a teacher instead of a tutor. Sometimes if you are lucky you can find one who is a hard core christian and then convince them to teach you for free. lol. As far as the non pedal looking. I look at them when doing warm ups with the pedals, ONLY. One exercise that helps is the toe, heel, toe, heel pattern. Have you learned this? start on c do a c scale first one foot then the other and end on c. do this a couple times and then look straight forward and do this a couple more times. SLOwly. if you are having a hard time feeling the pedals, i can give you a suggestion. CHECK YOUR SHOES. thin shoes with NO SOLES on them are a great difference in feeling. the problem with shoes with soles on them is you have a big think piece of rubber between your feet and the pedals making it hard for you to feel them. sometimes running shoes are great. but try a different type of shoe for now, preferably ones with out soles. other than that, good luck with your journey with the pipe organ. as you go you i hope you will get to bigger organs that just shack the walls. lol. 

nick~composer and artist

ps. some music to try would be J.S. Bach's little preludes and Fugues. i think there are a total between 6 and 8 of them. becareful this set is a little hard to find. Bach wrote different sets of little prelude and fugue. its the one with the prelude starting in the key of c. first note starts an 8va above middle c. and goes. c,b,c,g,c,b,c,e-hold. in a downward motion. C's are being repeated. while g and e are closer below the repeated C's. if it doesn't make sense just through me a message and ill see if i can get the BWV for you.

nick


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## kmisho

Ilovemsuic said:


> Hi, thanks for your reply. I have got a tutor but I just can't get the hang of it. I'm even struggle to use just the pedals because my teacher advices me not to look at them.


I hate that. Starting out, you have to look. How else do you learn exactly where to place your toe and heel?

Just this one thing alone makes me feel like maybe you need a new teacher. Believe me, I've had some terrible teachers in my time.

I had a great organ teacher. Great because his attitude was "use any facility you have to get the job done." He was not one of those must follow every traditional rule type of teachers. I grew by leaps and bounds under him.


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## Lukecash12

> Learning to play the organ but finding it difficult


No kidding. It's every bit as hard to learn as the piano. it's not fun trying to relaern how to hold something to it's full length. Not only that, but different key touch you have to learn.


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## nefigah

Hmm, well really, there's no reason to look. There are techniques (which the teacher should be showing you) for finding your way around on the pedalboard by feel. For example, sliding your foot at an angle in the appropriate direction so you silently bump into the corners of the groups of "black" pedals. Once you're at the appropriate group, slide back and play the note you're looking for (assuming you want a "white" note).


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## Krummhorn

That's exactly right ... once you are positioned correctly it is learning by feel, or at least the way I was taught. Eventually, and with practice, the feet will instinctively "know" where each pedal is. I only turn on the pedalboard light on Sunday mornings, as my choir and other visitors love to watch my footwork, otherwise, I leave it turned off, even for my personal practice times. 

When playing a fast and very technical piece on the organ, there isn't time to look at the feet and watch the notes on the page, too.


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## kmisho

I agree in the long run, krummhorn, but I found it extremely useful early on to look at exactly where I placed my toes and how that felt and to observe the angle of my foot between toe and heel on slow scales in order to establish the most precise and regular technique. One should always work on weening oneself off the eyes, on any instrument. But if you have eyes and they can help, why ban them?


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## GraemeG

"Playing the organ is easy. All you have to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." - J S Bach

Sage advice from the master... !
Graeme


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## Rasa

Krummhorn said:


> When playing a fast and very technical piece on the organ, there isn't time to look at the feet and watch the notes on the page, too.


From my experience as a piano player, this applies to the keyboard aswell.

Being good in music is all about practice. And then some more.


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## ellll

Does anyone have an interest, as well as maybe a slight distaste in the super- speed pedal work of Barbara Dennerlein?-?

John (ellll)


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## hlolli

Don't end up doing this


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## Krummhorn

Exactly why I never ... repeat never ... use automatic transposers . 

In this particular case though, the organist hit a numbered transposer piston instead of a General piston. Kudos to the choral group who remained solid in the key of D major.


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## Rasa

Polytonality 

The effect is awesome though, could be Milhaud.


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## Orgelbear

Hi, I...

Probably the best advice is not to get discouraged. Playing the organ is hard. It takes a different kind of coordination than what the piano calls for. Learning to be comfortable at the console or keydesk takes time.

Practice slowly. VERY slowly. First just the right hand. Then the left. Then the feet. Then one hand and feet. Then the other and feet. Then both hands without feet... Well, you get the idea. You're learning a whole new orientation to your instrument. It will take time. 

As for looking at the pedals, look when you have to, but only when you have to. It's like shifting hand positions on the piano keyboard. It feels awkward now, but you can get used to it.

I hope you'll give us updates on how you're doing.


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## Romantic Geek

hlolli said:


> Don't end up doing this


HAHAHAHA. Wow. I needed a good laugh. That was awesome.


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## elfish

ellll said:


> Does anyone have an interest, as well as maybe a slight distaste in the super- speed pedal work of Barbara Dennerlein?-?
> 
> John (ellll)


I have never heard of her, or seen her play - where can I find something to look at /listen to?

(always interested in fancy footwork! ..)

Elfish


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## ellll

Please check on You Tube for Barbara... Should be plenty!!!!

Hi and Regards... you're new ?

ellll


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## rborganist

As someone who majored in organ as an undergraduate but who didn't have time to practice for a long time, sometimes you just have to look at the pedals; the thing is to be able to minimize that. There are some recurring spaces that can help you feel for some of the notes: E-flat and F sharp and B/C. If you can feel those notes with your feet and go up or down from there, you can minimize the amount of looking you have to do. However, if you have a passage with no pedal, and then the pedal comes in again, it does absolutely no harm to look to be sure you start on the right note. All of this assumes that the builder has built to AGO standards and is not one of those builders who still builds flat straight pedal boards in some instruments, sneering at the "anatomic pedal board" as if it were inherently inferior. As someone who is not very tall, I wouldn't be able to reach the top notes of a flat straight pedal board. If you do encounter one of those, then you have to relearn everything and then relearn the more standard type when you go back to it. As for learning to play hands and feet together, it does indeed take practice; even now, if I'm learning a new piece, I will learn the right hand first, then the left hand, then the pedal, then put the hands together, then one hand and pedal, then the other hand and pedal, and finally everything. You would do the same thing with a piano piece, only without the pedal part. The old saying "Rome wasn't built in a day" definitely applies to learning to play the organ. But when you learn it will be very satisfying indeed.


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