# Was Ernest Chausson very innovative?



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Do you think he was? Is he given enough credit?





Ernest Chausson - La légende de Sainte Cécile, Op. 22 (1891)


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

No, I think he was more of a follower. He refined some of the ideas of others, and he sure wrote some gorgeous music. It's a scandal that his beautiful symphony hardly ever gets played anymore. Everytime I get on a bicycle I think of Chausson.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Nowhere nearly enough credit but I have to agree he was a "refiner" of musical concepts rather than an innovator. Regardless, I find his music to be beautiful and worthy of repeated listening


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

What composer's concepts was he refining? Otherwise, I disagree if evidence isn't given.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Chausson can be described as innovative, or at least progressive, as he was a student of Cesar Franck. The bande à Franck also included d’Indy and Duparc. 

The innovation which Franck is most widely known for is cyclic form. Franck and his protégés, and also Saint-Saens, also worked to increase the prominence of instrumental music in France.

The influence of Wagner on this generation had impacts on the next. Chausson was a friend of Debussy, who he helped financially on a number of occasions.

Towards the end of his life he had success with the symphony and also the Poeme for violin and orchestra. The poeme is such an intense piece, written for Ysaye and taken up by so many violinists since. At a concert I attended, the conductor said that Chausson’s death is the best reminder to wear a helmet when cycling.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

regenmusic said:


> What composer's concepts was he refining? Otherwise, I disagree if evidence isn't given.


I don't want to write a dissertation here, but the symphony is a good example. Franck pointed to a new direction for the form: 3 instead of 4 movements, and collapsing the traditional slow movement and scherzo into one. Chausson, and others of the Franckian school, went with that. He extended the cyclic form further: note how the close of the symphony mirrors the very beginning. His orchestration is much more careful and delicate - almost impressionistic. Study the Franck and Chausson side by side; it's fascinating.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

mbhaub said:


> I don't want to write a dissertation here, but the symphony is a good example. Franck pointed to a new direction for the form: 3 instead of 4 movements, and collapsing the traditional slow movement and scherzo into one. Chausson, and others of the Franckian school, went with that. He extended the cyclic form further: note how the close of the symphony mirrors the very beginning. His orchestration is much more careful and delicate - almost impressionistic. Study the Franck and Chausson side by side; it's fascinating.


Thanks. It just seems more analysis is needed, as if you study the piece I posted, it seems advanced for it's time in other ways.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Regenmusic was right to take me to task for not providing reasons for my slightly adverse comments on Chausson. 

The first and last passages of the work are pure Wagner and initially one would be forgiven for thinking the wrong disk had been placed in the sleeve - at least until the main theme is introduced- then Chausson's familiar melodies are evident - nothing wrong with that - many composers essentially use the same material repeatedly in numerous works but his usage is hardly innovative, unlike.say Mahler, Bruckner etc.

Perhaps the Mitropoulos version of the E flat major symphony is not the ideal starting point for analysis due to his weird speed variations. No doubt he had his reasons, but the pace of the allegro Vivo does nothing for me except wonder if he had a bowel problem and needed to get out quickly. 

Don't get me wrong - I actually do Like Chausson's music, but innovative - not really


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I sure liked his imaginative_ Symphony in B-flat _ but I 
wasn't entirely convinced that he knew how to end it.
It's a shame that he didn't have more years to compose.
That's the fateful thing about being a composer: 
you could be gifted with talent but not the years to fully 
develop it. I admired his contributions to French music,
the fiercely independent French music that refused to be 
swallowed up by the Austro-Germanic tradition as great
as it sometimes was, especially Wagner's part in it,
though there are some of Wagner's influences in it.
Because of his essentially conservative nature, 
I believe he would have been more innovative 
and sure of himself had he lived longer and not 
died in that terrible bike accident.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

mbhaub said:


> No, I think he was more of a follower. He refined some of the ideas of others, and he sure wrote some gorgeous music. It's a scandal that his beautiful symphony hardly ever gets played anymore. Everytime I get on a bicycle I think of Chausson.


I don't get on bicycles _because_ of Chausson. But I agree with you on the Symphony. It's long been a favorite of mine. So is the gorgeous _Poème de l'amour et de la mer_.

When I listen to Chausson I don't dwell on whether he was innovative or not. I simply enjoy the music.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

He was innovative enough to be remembered by us nobodies today, so there's that.


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