# Why buy Bmw when there are Hyundai and Kia?



## atsizat

People die for german cars but I would buy Hyundai or Kia instead.

I would take Genesis G70 or Kia Stinger over a Bmw 3 series.

I would take Genesis G80 over a Bmw 5 series.

And I would take Genesis G90 or Kia K9 over a Bmw 7 series.

There is no need to buy Bmw.


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## Guest

I like their old boxers.


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## Klassik

Forget the Stinger or Genesis Gwhatever (these companies really need to stop using such arbitrary numbering schemes and use real names for their cars), I'd rather have a Kia Optima than a 3 series BMW.

Anyway, who here wants a BMW Isetta? It's the power of Urkel!










If we move beyond BMWs and look at other German cars, I'd rather have a 1996 Kia Sephia than this new concept three-box SUV from Mercedes-Maybach that Mercedes thinks will be a huge hit in China:


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## Jos

I hope your campaign will be succesful Atsizat, I forsee a huge collapse in the 2nd hand market, in the BMW branche that is.
Good for me, because I'm lusting after a 7-series to replace the Audi. I love German cars, have you ever tried one ?


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## Klassik

Jos said:


> I hope your campaign will be succesful Atsizat, I forsee a huge collapse in the 2nd hand market, in the BMW branche that is.
> Good for me, because I'm lusting after a 7-series to replace the Audi.


Here in the US, German luxury cars have low residual value. This is due to a combination of factors. The main one is that most people lease luxury cars as opposed to buying them. Thus, there is usually a glut of late model used luxury cars on the market due to lease returns. Another factor is that used car shoppers tend to be more value oriented and German cars are not value cars. They're unreliable and expensive to repair. Another factor that's at play right now is the sinking desirability of sedans in the US marketplace. It seems like every senior citizen and mom out there wants a SUV now. People were leasing sedans 3 years ago, but now those sedans are very hard to sell at the prices they would have sold for a few years ago.

One thing I've noticed about Hyundai/Kia cars (at least mainstream models, I don't know about Genesis and the new higher-end sporty models) is that they still have not quite figured out suspension tuning and steering feel. They sometimes feel excessively floaty without feeling smooth and their electric steering systems feel like, well, electric steering systems. Other companies have done a better job tuning their electric power steering to feel more natural. I suppose these are minor complaints though.

I did seriously consider a Kia the last time I brought a new car and I seriously considered a Hyundai the last time I brought a car before that. While they are more reliable than they used to be and they do have long warranties, I do know people with H/K cars (more so with Hyundai than Kia) who have had trouble getting the dealers to honor the warranties. That is a big concern.


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## Jos

I know of some costly horror stories with a Hyundai SUV. Apparently the accelerator is not linked via cable or rods to the injector blocks (nostalgic aside; I rather have written carburetor) but is basically an electric switch or potmeter and actuates a solenoid and a whole bunch of electronics that cannot be handled with a spanner (or a large hammer)
At least with German cars you KNOW it will be expensive


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## Klassik

Jos said:


> I know of some costly horror stories with a Hyundai SUV. Apparently the accelerator is not linked via cable or rods to the injector blocks (nostalgic aside; I rather have written carburetor) but is basically an electric switch or potmeter and actuates a solenoid and a whole bunch of electronics that cannot be handled with a spanner (or a large hammer)


All new cars have throttle-by-wire these days.


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## Vronsky

I like Hyundai, particularly i30, and I'm not very familiar with Kia. Currently I'm driving Volkswagen Polo and Ford Mondeo (my father's car). I like them both, although the Mondeo seems too big and fast for me but I like the comfort. I'm a big fan of Alfa Romeo, and if I'm buying some bigger and faster car, it would be Alfa Romeo 159 (or Giulia, if I hit the jackpot one day). 

I don't know why people give big advantge to BMW. I would gladly choose Mercedes C, E or S instead of BMW 3, 5 or 7.


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## Triplets

I had 3 series Beemer once. Very expensive to maintain when it goes off warranty.
I am happy with my new Honda Accord


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## Klassik

Triplets said:


> I am happy with my new Honda Accord


Here in the US, midsized mainstream sedans like the Camry, Altima, Accord, Sonata, and Optima really do offer the best balance of performance, safety, reliability, and value. Compact sedans and hatchbacks are right up there too.

Another reason not to buy a BMW, Lexus, and cars like that are that they are only offered with leather/fake leather seating here in the US. Screw that. Leather/fake leather seats suck in places with extreme temperatures like here in Texas. I've heard that the most expensive executive cars in Japan (the kind that are driven by chauffeurs) come with cloth seats because Japanese VIPs don't want to deal with the noise made by leather seats.


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## KenOC

Tulse said:


> I like their old boxers.


No no no, it's gotta be a PROPER beemer!


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## CnC Bartok

To give credit where credit's due, BMW do maintain strict standards when it comes to permitting purchase of their cars. Prospective buyers must fulfill at least two of the following criteria to qualify:

1] Sperm count must be at least two standard deviations below the average
2] Must be hung like a hampster
3] Must have more money than sense

I am serenely content with my Czech-built car


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## mhenderson

I enjoyed my BMW bikes, when I was a lot younger (and fitter). I had the BMW R100RS, similar to the RT here. I have to admit it was not trouble free though. I have also had to be recovered by breakdown services twice, both times on BMWs, an R65 and R80. That never happened with Honda.


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## chill782002

Robert Pickett said:


> To give credit where credit's due, BMW do maintain strict standards when it comes to permitting purchase of their cars. Prospective buyers must fulfill at least two of the following criteria to qualify:
> 
> 1] Sperm count must be at least two standard deviations below the average
> 2] Must be hung like a hampster
> 3] Must have more money than sense
> 
> I am serenely content with my Czech-built car


I used to have German cars but now I have become a Lexus devotee. More comfortable, better tech, more reliable and less cripplingly expensive to service.


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## Guest

mhenderson said:


> I enjoyed my BMW bikes, when I was a lot younger (and fitter). I had the BMW R100RS, similar to the RT here. I have to admit it was not trouble free though. I have also had to be recovered by breakdown services twice, both times on BMWs, an R65 and R80. That never happened with Honda.


When I could only afford MZs I used to aspire to the big BMWs, but then I found Jap horsepower and reliability. Those air cooled bikes were essentially vintage bikes being sold in modern times, albeit very well put together. I'm sure that they'd be much easier to work on when you need to. (Wouldn't fancy a clutch failure though).


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## david johnson

I had a BMW 3series that was great fun to drive. It gave unexpected problems so I traded for a Jeep. No problems in 8 years


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## mhenderson

I have to admit I had a test ride with a BMW R90S, but being a student, and having no money, went back and bought an MZ ES2, the Earles forks 250. It was awful. I did have an ETZ later, which was better. Do you remember those terrible tyres ? I once slid down the road, following the bike, one damp morning. I haven't seen an MZ for a long time. I'd love to have a ride again on my R80, which I bought new in 1987.


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## Klassik

I've heard it said that there was a time where people brought luxury cars like Mercedes-Benz with the intent of passing it down to their children. This was probably sometime before the early 1980s. Since then, people "buy" (lease them more specifically) to last three years. The quality of the cars shows this difference, but leasing does allow every hairdresser to afford a new BMW 3-series or MB C-class. Unfortunately, Honda is seriously getting into the leasing game here in the US and I think this shows in their products as well based on their falling reliability in things like Consumer Reports' surveys. Still, a Honda will probably be far more economical in the long-run than a German car. A loaded up Accord is probably more luxurious than an equivalently priced 3-series and will have better residuals.


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## Jos

I’ve only owned one Japanese car, a 1984 (or thereabout) Mazda 626. 
Felt like it would run forever, until the headgasket went. The repair was ridiculously expensive, but that impression might have had something to do with my budget at the time..
But a Merc I once had is the only car I’ve seen with a 5 as the first number on the km. counter (there probably is another word for it)
@Klassik. That is almost a conspiracy theory you’re presenting here. Manufacturers built in obsolescense because their products only need to last for the lease period, typically 3 years. After that, good luck to the paupers like me who only buy 2nd hand cars.
I shall find out soon enough, my cars are always 15 years old due to an absurd but lucrative tax thingy. I change car every 3 or 4 years.


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## Klassik

Jos said:


> But a Merc I once had is the only car I've seen with a 5 as the first number on the km. counter (there probably is another word for it)


Every now and then we'll hear stories about million mile (1,000,000 mi. = 1,609,344 km.) Volvos (older Volvos). I do remember hearing about someone who put 1,000,000 on their 1990 Honda Accord. Honda ended up giving the person a new Accord.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/million-miles-and-counting-for-a-honda-accord/

I suspect that a modern BMW or Mercedes (or just about any car that does not have rust issues) could last 500km if maintained properly, but it would require so many costly repairs to get to that point that most people would give up and get something cheaper to operate.



> @Klassik. That is almost a conspiracy theory you're presenting here. Manufacturers built in obsolescense because their products only need to last for the lease period, typically 3 years. After that, good luck to the paupers like me who only buy 2nd hand cars.
> I shall find out soon enough, my cars are always 15 years old due to an absurd but lucrative tax thingy. I change car every 3 or 4 years.


I suspect that most manufacturers design their cars to hold up for around 3-4 years depending on the warranty offered. Of course, those buying their cars will probably keep them longer and will not want a car that will completely fall apart after 3-4 years. For those leasing their cars, what happens to them after 3-4 years is not their problem.


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## St Matthew

Why drive when you can fly?


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## KenOC

Here's my last BMW, a thousand miles north of here in the Columbia River Gorge on a long road trip. Took a bad spill a few years ago and my motorcycling days are now over.


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## Guest

mhenderson said:


> I have to admit I had a test ride with a BMW R90S, but being a student, and having no money, went back and bought an MZ ES2, the Earles forks 250. It was awful. I did have an ETZ later, which was better. Do you remember those terrible tyres ? I once slid down the road, following the bike, one damp morning. I haven't seen an MZ for a long time. I'd love to have a ride again on my R80, which I bought new in 1987.


I'm sorry to hear the ES250 was no good. They look great (in a Teutonic way)

For everyone else:









I like the position of the front indicators.

I put 49,000 miles on an ETZ251 with minimal maintenance but everything was clapped out by then so I chucked it in a skip.


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## Guest

Oh yes, the Pneumant tyres. I managed fine with them, but I think that they must have improved by the late eighties when I bought my MZs.

They are still made, the company is now called Heidenau or something. I have one on my Enfield Bullet.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I've had only one BMW - a 1999 328i convertible, last of the 36 series it was a beauty tripl3 black highline model got it with 120K on it had it for 5 years and only did 18ks in it, had no trouble but didn't get to use it much. Top down here you get burnt to pieces


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## hpowders

OP: Because RWD rules!









My current BMW 2 Series Coupé.

Click to enlarge.

Don't gasp too loudly. Your neighbors may be still sleeping!


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> OP: Because RWD rules!


All the Hyundais/Kias OP listed are RWD/AWD.


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## Dan Ante

I have a Z3 and a series 3 coupe, yes they cost a bit if and when something needs doing, but the road handling and acceleration are fantastic, the Coupe has averaged 29mpg over the last 50-55000k. 







The Z3 at Wanganui with a Beemer from Alexandra.








On the way to a club run


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## Klassik

The one positive thing I'll say about BMWs is that they have maintained their design standards ever since Chris Bangle left. Bangle butts aside, BMWs are well-designed cars from an appearance standpoint. They've so far avoided a lot of the embarrassing designs that a lot of other manufacturers, including Mercedes-Benz, are pumping out these days. Kias also has some of the best designs on the road today. Their designer, Peter Schreyer, comes from Audi.

If you want to see hideous car design, check out the two grilles available depending on trim level on the 2019 Toyota Avalons:


















All of this on a car typically brought by senior citizens and is quite conservative otherwise!  It's like the automotive version of atonal music.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^ Wow, and I thought my work one was bad ...............


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## Klassik

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Wow, and I thought my work one was bad ...............
> 
> View attachment 103110


At least the Avalon does not have fake vents in the rear bumpers like that Camry.  But, yeah, Toyota keeps making them uglier and uglier.  Who knows what's next, a whole car made of grille?


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## hpowders

Post deleted.


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## schigolch

In my family, we had always bought German cars. But now, we have decided for a KIA Optima PHEV, in order to "go green", as with the car's 55 km electric range, we can manage the daily commute without spending a single drop of benzine.


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## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Wow, and I thought my work one was bad ...............
> 
> View attachment 103110


The only thing uglier than the new Camry's front end is its dash. What a confused mish-mash!


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## Flamme

hpowders said:


> Post deleted.


Best posts out there.:tiphat::angel::devil:


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> The only thing uglier than the new Camry's front end is its interior. What a confused mish-mash!
> 
> View attachment 103120


The 2019 Avalon might be even worse:












Long gone are the glory days of the classy 1992-96 XV10 Camry which many auto journalists consider the greatest regular car of all-time:


















That thing was like a Lexus inside even if you brought the base model. Although the XV10 Camry gets a ton of accolades to this day, we had a 1992 Camry in the family, made in Japan no less, and it was a POS plagued by many problems. Maybe it was just a case of first model year blues.


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## hpowders

Flamme said:


> Best posts out there.:tiphat::angel::devil:


I myself would have ignored such a post, even though its brevity was momentarily tempting.

Others seem to find pure poetry in "post deleted".

I am not so easy to please.

Perhaps if it was written Bach-wards.....

sdraw-hcaB: a little better, but still disappointing.


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## hpowders

Flamme said:


> Best posts out there.:tiphat::angel::devil:


Some of my most popular pithy posts:

"Post deleted.

Wrong thread.

I'm leaving.

I'm banned?

Why me?

Me 2?

Blaming me?

I dunno.

BMW? Yes!!!

Kia? No!!

Another poll???"

I'm sure there are a few more hpowders' posts out there, illustrating characteristic, to the point brevity that I am deservingly well-known 4.


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## Strange Magic

Why would anybody buy a German (or any European) car? Expensive (many) to buy; expensive to maintain. The Japanese figured out cars decades ago, learning all about quality control from an American prophet (W. Edwards Deming) ignored in his own country for decades. Subaru, Honda, Toyota, Mazda. Even (finally!) the Americans, except for Chrysler, figured out from the Japanese how to build better cars.


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## atsizat

Look at Genesis G90


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## Dan Ante

If ya want a real sports car it gota be a German or British, Italian a bit pricey I think, American naaa dont think so.


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## Klassik

Dan Ante said:


> If ya want a real sports car it gota be a German or British, Italian a bit pricey I think, American naaa dont think so.


Corvettes, at least modern versions of it (C6-C7), are very legitimate sports cars.


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## hpowders

Dan Ante said:


> If ya want a real sports car it gota be a German or British, Italian a bit pricey I think, American naaa dont think so.


Most folks just want an appliance to get them to the CD store and back and Japanese cars are fine for that.

You and I obviously see a car's value a bit differently. It's called fun!!!

I've had a 1993 325i; a 2003 325i, a 2005 545i, a 2007 328i, a 2013 VW GTI and finally, now I'm loving a 2015 228i coupe. Five BMWs and a VW.

I don't drive Japanese. I *EAT* Japanese. Pass the Sake.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> Most folks just want an appliance to get them to the CD store and back and Japanese cars are fine for that.
> 
> You and I obviously see a car's value a bit differently. It's called fun!!!


Meh, if you have access to a race track, a Miata/MX-5 is about as fun as any car priced in a normal price range. They're a heck of a lot more reliable too.  Now, obviously, they would not be as fun to be in while in normal driving conditions - stuck in a traffic jam on I-45 or I-10 because there is a broken down BMW taking up a lane. 

Ok, ok, it's usually a broken down Mercedes or Chrysler. Most of the broken down Chryslers come from an era when they are/were German or Italian cars anyway.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Klassik said:


> The 2019 Avalon might be even worse:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long gone are the glory days of the classy 1992-96 XV10 Camry which many auto journalists consider the greatest regular car of all-time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That thing was like a Lexus inside even if you brought the base model. Although the XV10 Camry gets a ton of accolades to this day, we had a 1992 Camry in the family, made in Japan no less, and it was a POS plagued by many problems. Maybe it was just a case of first model year blues.


What happened the steering wheel is on the wrong side?  No wonder it looks bad


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## Klassik

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What happened the steering wheel is on the wrong side?  No wonder it looks bad


The left side is the right side in good countries. You know, the ones who know how to pronounce _Baroque_.


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## Dan Ante

Klassik said:


> Corvettes, at least modern versions of it (C6-C7), are very legitimate sports cars.


Nah...Tanks is what they are, it aint the grunt you have its keeping it on the road that counts.....


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Klassik said:


> The left side is the right side in good countries. You know, the ones who know how to pronounce _Baroque_.


Yeah sure mate, we have BBQ's too


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## Dan Ante

hpowders said:


> Most folks just want an appliance to get them to the CD store and back and Japanese cars are fine for that.
> 
> You and I obviously see a car's value a bit differently. It's called fun!!!
> 
> I've had a 1993 325i; a 2003 325i, a 2005 545i, a 2007 328i, a 2013 VW GTI and finally, now I'm loving a 2015 228i coupe. Five BMWs and a VW.
> 
> I don't drive Japanese. I *EAT* Japanese. Pass the Sake.


They call them Jappers down here and in Pome land, OK for commuting etc but as you say not much fun to drive, I have had a few MGs over the years but now in my senile years want just a wee bit more comfort so a Z3 330i for sunny days and a series 3 coupe E46 330i for winter, hmmmm I'm getting soft and loving it.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Dan Ante said:


> They call them Jappers down here and in Pome land, OK for commuting etc but as you say not much fun to drive, I have had a few MGs over the years but now in my senile years want just a wee bit more comfort so a Z3 330i for sunny days and a series 3 coupe E46 330i for winter, hmmmm I'm getting soft and loving it.


However, I would not say no to a Toyota 2000 GT circa 1969


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## Strange Magic

hpowders said:


> Most folks just want an appliance to get them to the CD store and back and Japanese cars are fine for that.
> 
> You and I obviously see a car's value a bit differently. It's called fun!!!
> 
> I've had a 1993 325i; a 2003 325i, a 2005 545i, a 2007 328i, a 2013 VW GTI and finally, now I'm loving a 2015 228i coupe. Five BMWs and a VW.
> 
> I don't drive Japanese. I *EAT* Japanese. Pass the Sake.


Actually, the secret ingredients for driving fun are 1) a good manual transmission; 2) good twisty but well-paved hill-and-dale roads not well-policed; and 3) a skillful driver who knows how to shift, downshift, brake, and steer that particular vehicle through long practice and association on such roads. This is driving fun, and can be experienced in surprisingly "modest" vehicles, many of them Japanese.


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## Klassik

Dan Ante said:


> Nah...Tanks is what they are, it aint the grunt you have its keeping it on the road that counts.....


This would be true if you're talking about the C5 and earlier Corvettes. The C6 and especially the C7 Corvette are much better handling cars. The C8 will be even better as it's rumored to be mid-engined. The C7 Corvette is a great sports car made even better by the relatively modest cost of it. Tarted up pick-ups and family SUVs cost more than what a Corvette can be purchased for. GM doesn't do many things right, but the Corvette is an exception to that. It is genuinely a better sports car than some others that cost a lot more.

Here's a comparison of a $70k C7 Corvette Stingray vs. a $87k Porsche Cayman S. The results? The Corvette is better in the straight line, in the slalom, and on the skid pad. The Porsche might be more composed with the electronics off compared to the same situation with the Corvette, but that's just more opportunity for a skilled driver to make things right. 

https://www.edmunds.com/porsche/cayman/2014/comparison-test.html



Strange Magic said:


> Actually, the secret ingredients for driving fun are 1) a good manual transmission; 2) good twisty but well-paved hill-and-dale roads not well-policed; and 3) a skillful driver who knows how to shift, downshift, brake, and steer that particular vehicle through long practice and association on such roads. This is driving fun, and can be experienced in surprisingly "modest" vehicles, many of them Japanese.


If you ever go to a track, I will say that driving a slow car fast (or a wild, untamed beast of a car) is a lot more fun than driving a fast car that practically drives itself. Of course, certain things should only be tried by qualified drivers. 



EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> However, I would not say no to a Toyota 2000 GT circa 1969


Ooh, that's a nice one. I'm a fan of the old Nissan/Datsun (I'm not sure what they called them over there) 240Z as well.


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## hpowders

PS: At 6'2", hpowders can't fit well inside a Mazda Miata, but he does, inside a Porsche Boxster.


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## atsizat

I would like to buy Genesis G70. This Genesis G70 must be mine. I will buy it in my dreams only


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## KenOC

Lots of silly talk around here. If you're really interested in carving up those twisties, you should do it on a proper motorcycle. Not sitting in a cage.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> PS: At 6'2", hpowders can't fit well inside a Mazda Miata, but he does, inside a Porsche Boxster.


I'm not sure why you wouldn't. The Miata is listed as having ~2.5" more legroom than the Boxster and only 1" less headroom.

https://www.carmax.com/research/por...68079&enginenumber=1238840&trannumber=1203807
https://www.carmax.com/research/maz...65499&enginenumber=1237571&trannumber=1204552


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## Dr Johnson

KenOC said:


> Lots of silly talk around here. If you're really interested in carving up those twisties, you should do it on a proper motorcycle. Not sitting in a cage.


Or a Mazda MX5. Also very reliable.


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## Dr Johnson

To address the OP:

The heart wants what the heart wants (yes, dreadful phrase).


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## hpowders

The females prefer BMW and Porsche. Kias and Hundais are losers. Mazdas take me to the po' boy take-out window.

One must ride with the ocean waves; not agin' them.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> *The females prefer BMW and Porsche.* Kias and Hundais are losers. Mazdas take me to the po' boy take-out window.


Klassik is not interested in women who expect diamond jewelry for the six week anniversary. Real women prefer Miatas/MX-5s.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Klassik is not interested in women who expect diamond jewelry for the six week anniversary. Real women prefer Miatas/MX-5s.


Short women.


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## hpowders

In Carlsbad, we drive BMWs and Porsches....and wonder why we moved away from unspoiled Solana Beach.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> Short women.


Not a problem. Short women = lower center of gravity = better handling.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Not a problem. Short women = lower center of gravity = better handling.


The love of my life when I was a kid was quite petite. In those days I drove a 1967 Impala.

Now, I am the love of my life and I drive German luxury cars.


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## atsizat

hpowders said:


> The females prefer BMW and Porsche. Kias and Hundais are losers. Mazdas take me to the po' boy take-out window.
> 
> One must ride with the ocean waves; not agin' them.


How is a 75.000 $ Genesis G90 for losers? You must confuse Hyundai Genesis cars with Hyundai Accent?


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## hpowders

atsizat said:


> How is a 75.000 $ Genesis G90 for losers? You must confuse Hyundai Genesis cars with Hyundai Accent?


Genesis is the separate luxury division of Hundai. The thread topic specifically referred to Hyundai and NOT Genesis.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> I'm not sure why you wouldn't. The Miata is listed as having ~2.5" more legroom than the Boxster and only 1" less headroom.
> 
> https://www.carmax.com/research/por...68079&enginenumber=1238840&trannumber=1203807
> https://www.carmax.com/research/maz...65499&enginenumber=1237571&trannumber=1204552


I dunno about that.....just because someone wrote it down doesn't make hpowders, "unskeptical".


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> The love of my life when I was a kid was quite petite. In those days I drove a 1967 Impala.
> 
> Now, I am the love of my life and I drive German luxury cars.


I'll take the petite one. You can keep the Impala and the German cars. 



atsizat said:


> How is a 75.000 $ Genesis G90 for losers? You must confuse Hyundai Genesis cars with Hyundai Accent?


The Accent is a pretty decent small car. It's not for losers. A Mercedes CLA, OTOH, is for total posers.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> I'll take the petite one. You can keep the Impala and the German cars.
> 
> The Accent is a pretty decent small car. It's not for losers. A Mercedes CLA, OTOH, is for total posers.


I'm spoiled. I got used to 0-60 at around 5.5 seconds. Some of those cars are lucky to do it in 8.

When I merge on a highway or attempt to get away from a texting SUV driver with tires in my lane, I NEED powerful acceleration. It can save one's life.


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## Dr Johnson

hpowders said:


> The love of my life when I was a kid was quite petite. In those days I drove a 1967 Impala.
> 
> *Now, I am the love of my life and I drive German luxury cars.*


It can take a lifetime to acquire an insight like that.

Recently I bought a (2nd hand) Mercedes.


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## atsizat

hpowders said:


> Genesis is the separate luxury division of Hundai. The thread topic specifically referred to Hyundai and NOT Genesis.


A Genesis is a Hyundai just like a Lexus is a Toyota.

Who is making Genesis cars? Hyundai itself. The same firm.

Hyundai Equus became Genesis G90 and Hyundai Genesis became Genesis G80 after Hyundai decided to use a different name for its luxury cars.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> I'm spoiled. I got used to 0-60 at around 5.5 seconds. Some of those cars are lucky to do it in 8.
> 
> When I merge on a highway or attempt to get away from a texting SUV driver with tires in my lane, I NEED powerful acceleration. It can save one's life.


5.5 seconds? Bah, that's nothing. An Accord with the turbo 4 can do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds with the automatic. The fastest I've done behind the wheel is 3.2 seconds...in a German luxury sedan of all things.


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## hpowders

Dr Johnson said:


> It can take a lifetime to acquire an insight like that.
> 
> Recently I bought a (2nd hand) Mercedes.


Nice! I once had a used Porsche 911. Sold it in less than a year. Too rough-riding for street driving. At least I found that out, instead of wondering my whole life..... :lol:


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> 5.5 seconds? Bah, that's nothing. An Accord with the turbo 4 can do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds with the automatic. The fastest I've done behind the wheel is 3.2 seconds...in a German luxury sedan of all things.


I don't want anything faster-uses up too much gas and too easy to get a speeding ticket.

My 228i is really too damn fast as it is. The power is so effortless, you don't realize how fast you are really moving.


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## Dr Johnson

hpowders said:


> Nice! I once had a used Porsche 911. Sold it in less than a year. Too rough-riding for street driving. At least I found that out, instead of wondering my whole life..... :lol:


A friend of mine bought a (very) used 911.

Bills, heartache and speeding tickets it brought him.

Now he has a Honda Jazz.


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## Klassik

Porsche 911? Too much junk in the trunk. 

But, seriously, a Porsche 911 hasn't really been a Porsche 911 since they got rid of the air-cooled engines. Plus, the stink of Karajan has ruined the Porsche name.


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## Dr Johnson

I'm sure that my chum had an air cooled 911.

I didn't realise that they even made_ water_ cooled ones!


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## Klassik

Dr Johnson said:


> I didn't realise that they even made_ water_ cooled ones!


Yeah, they've been water cooled for about 20 years now. So, in other words, the 911 has been dead for ~20 years now.


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## Dr Johnson

The horror, the horror!


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## hpowders

Dr Johnson said:


> A friend of mine bought a (very) used 911.
> 
> Bills, heartache and speeding tickets it brought him.
> 
> Now he has a Honda Jazz.


Here it's called a Honda Ellington.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Porsche 911? Too much junk in the trunk.
> 
> But, seriously, a Porsche 911 hasn't really been a Porsche 911 since they got rid of the air-cooled engines. Plus, the stink of Karajan has ruined the Porsche name.


I only cared about the females and what they thought. Couldn't care less about Karajan.


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## Dr Johnson

Mind you, in the latter days of my Mazda MX5 ownership, I took to waving at Porsche drivers because they always looked like they needed cheering up.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> I only cared about the females and what they thought. Couldn't care less about Karajan.


Yeah, but the stank of Karajan came with Porsches for a while. Talk about a turn off for women! Or men for that matter! 



Dr Johnson said:


> Mind you, in the latter days of my Mazda MX5 ownership, I took to waving at Porsche drivers because they always looked like they needed cheering up.


It was probably those depressing Karajan performances. Something HIP would have made them more hip.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Yeah, but the stank of Karajan came with Porsches for a while. Talk about a turn off for women! Or men for that matter!
> 
> It was probably those depressing Karajan performances. Something HIP would have made them more hip.


That's why a lot of times, I would simply chuck the car for a less anxiety-inducing ride on the LIRR, when I lived in NYC.

Finally! A conductor I could admire!!


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## KenOC

hpowders said:


> That's why a lot of times, I would simply chuck the car for a less anxiety-inducing ride on the LIRR, when I lived in NYC.
> 
> Finally! A conductor I could admire!!


Another conductor to admire!


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## Klassik

KenOC said:


> Another conductor to admire!


Overall, I must say that I prefer this conductor to Karajan. When she conducts Beethoven, fate really knocks. 

It's just too bad we can't see the caboose on that thing. Bummer.


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## hpowders

KenOC said:


> Another conductor to admire!


She's the LIRR conductor from my youth!!! She had a very throaty, "tickets please".


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## Guest

Modern cars are fast. My Kawasaki has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds, so there is not much difference these days.


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## Tristan

I love my Audi A6.  I feel cool when I drive it...

Though admittedly when my dad lets me drive his Tesla I feel even cooler. Although I do sometimes worry that the battery will explode


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## cwarchc

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> However, I would not say no to a Toyota 2000 GT circa 1969


Nice car if you have a couple of million $AD to spare
Loved the convertible in the James Bond film.
They had to make is specially as Sean Connery couldn't fit in the hard top


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## Klassik

Tristan said:


> Though admittedly when my dad lets me drive his Tesla I feel even cooler. Although I do sometimes worry that the battery will explode


Ah, yes, the Ford Pinto experience.


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## laurie

Klassik said:


> Ah, yes, the Ford Pinto experience.


That was the gas tank, which I imagine would make a much more impressive fireball than a battery! :lol:
I actually wanted to buy a Pinto in high school (!) but my mom said no way .


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## Klassik

laurie said:


> That was the gas tank, which I imagine would make a much more impressive fireball than a battery! :lol:
> I actually wanted to buy a Pinto in high school (!) but my mom said no way .


Careful, Wagner fans like the Illinois Nazis drive Pintos! 






Actual flying Pintos were kind of cool though...until the designer's flying Pinto had the wings separate in mid-air causing him to die.


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## laurie

We had a BMW 1995 M3 until recently; we bought it when it was about 15 yrs. old, in really nice shape & w/very low miles ~ my husband _loved _driving that car! But it was always needing _something_ repaired, often something he couldn't fix himself, & always pricey. When the head gasket went, that was the last (very expensive!) straw. He had no trouble selling it, even in that condition; those BMW's are very popular around here. We just replaced it with his dream car (well, his dream car in_ our_ price range, anyway! ) ~ a 2013 Mustang GT, in Deep Impact Blue ~ it's awesome, & he's a _very _happy camper now! And, I have to say, he looks really hot behind the wheel! 



Klassik said:


> Meh, i*f you have access to a race track, a Miata/MX-5 is about as fun as any *car priced in a normal price range. They're a heck of a lot more reliable too.  ....


My daughter races a '92 Miata, in a spec Miata class .... she loves her little race car, & has _more _than enough fun on the track to scare the bejeezus out of her poor mother! :lol:


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## Klassik

laurie said:


> My daughter races a '06 Mazda3, in a spec Miata class .... she loves her little race car, & has _more _than enough fun on the track to scare the bejeezus out of her poor mother! :lol:


The specs for that Miata class must be pretty loose if they let a Mazda3 in it.  But, yes, where there is a road course track in the US, there are many happy people racing MX-5 Miatas around them. They're very fun cars. I believe Fiat is selling a rebadged version of the Miata now with a Fiat engine in it. I suppose European car snobs can now have their own Miata with a much less reliable powerplant. Instead of racing it, they'll be telling Tony to fix it again.


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## laurie

Klassik said:


> *The specs for that Miata class must be pretty loose if they let a Mazda3 in it*.  But, yes, where there is a road course track in the US, there are many happy people racing MX-5 Miatas around them. They're very fun cars. I believe Fiat is selling a rebadged version of the Miata now with a Fiat engine in it. I suppose European car snobs can now have their own Miata with a much less reliable powerplant. Instead of racing it, they'll be telling Tony to fix it again.


Oops! .... that's her _street_ car (which she also loves!), she_ races_ a '92 Miata .
The spec Miata class is always one of the most fun to watch, with a big field & competitive racing ~
_*zoom zoom!*_


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## atsizat




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## Dan Ante

I prefer this kind of car this is a vehicle for men not boy racers :lol:


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## KenOC

Here's a more...ah...appropriate way to get about town.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Dan Ante said:


> I prefer this kind of car this is a vehicle for men not boy racers :lol:
> 
> View attachment 103471


If you drive a Morgan you gotta play this song whilst driving it


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## geralmar

Nothing in particular against Hyundai; but when I was in the army, KIA was the abbreviation for "killed in action" .


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## Pyotr

Why pay the expense of a Hyundai or Kia? Just wait until the Chinese start rolling out autos. We will all need 12-car garages.


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## hpowders

OP: Why buy a diamond when there are rhinestones?

I rest meinem case.


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## Dan Ante

Pyotr said:


> Why pay the expense of a Hyundai or Kia? Just wait until the Chinese start rolling out autos. We will all need 12-car garages.


Only a 12 car garage you may be better off to employ an on site mechanic to keep at least one of them running.


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## atsizat

hpowders said:


> OP: Why buy a diamond when there are rhinestones?
> 
> I rest meinem case.


My point is, Hyundai Genesis is as good as Bmw 5 series and it is cheaper.

In 2017, Hyundai Genesis started being sold under the name of Genesis G80.

And there is Kia K9. I am not sure if it is E segment or F segment, though.

Brands like Audi, Bmw, Mercedes will be more expensive than they are worth because of the brand value. You don't only pay for the car but also for the brand. More expensive doesn't always mean better.

You seeing a Bmw logo is more important than the quality. So you also pay for the logo.

I would be proud to drive if I had a Hyundai Genesis. I don't need the Bmw logo.

Koreans went crazy. Hyundai was **** in the past. Samsung was **** in the past. Look at them now.


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## atsizat

Deleted Message.


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## hpowders

My BMW 228i. So well-balanced and fast. Hyundai and Kia. Come on!!! 

Click on it if you must to enlarge.

Not responsible for poorly growing foliage.


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## atsizat

hpowders said:


> View attachment 108596
> 
> 
> My BMW 228i. So well-balanced and fast. Hyundai and Kia. Come on!!!
> 
> Click on it if you must to enlarge.
> 
> Not responsible for poorly growing foliage.


Have you driven a Hyundai Genesis ( Sedan) and decided that it is not as good as Bmw 5 series?


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## KenOC

atsizat said:


> Have you driven a Hyundai Genesis ( Sedan) and decided that it is not as good as Bmw 5 series?


A choice of cars, especially among the young, is not always a rational one. In my motorcycling days (a truly irrational hobby) gum-chewing waitresses, seeing my helmet, would often ask, "What kind of Harley do you ride?" Since I was riding a very fine BMW, I would merely roll my eyes and continue to masticate, pretending I was hard of hearing.


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## hpowders

atsizat said:


> Have you driven a Hyundai Genesis ( Sedan) and decided that it is not as good as Bmw 5 series?


I drive small cars because they handle better than large cars, and are more agile, due to their lighter masses. The BMW 228i is one of the smallest cars BMW makes. It handles wonderfully due to its size and relatively light mass and also because its platform is rear wheel drive.

The BMW 5 Series is too large for the likes of me! The Genesis G70 is a BMW 3 Series competitor. The 3 Series is getting a redo and will be available for me to drive in March, 2019. I would check out the Genesis G70, since its reviews have been quite good. Both cars are a bit too large for me.

By the way, thanks for not mentioning the foliage!


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## Dan Ante

I have a 330i very similar to yours, since new it has averaged 30mpg, a bit slower than our Z3 but more boot space.


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