# A POLL NOW ! Cantabile or cavatina - how do you call the slow part of the double aria ?



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

... I have seen or heard using both expression and each one is ambiguous.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

A cavatina is a short aria in one or two parts with no repeat (distinguishing it from da capo). It's otherwise rather vaguely defined and is occasionally used by modern-day writers on music, though not by nineteenth-century practitioners, in the place of cantabile, the first, slow movement of a double aria, .


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Cantabile really means in a lyical, flowing or a singing style and comes up quite often in instrumental music, though the cavatina will often be sung _cantabile_.

In early to mid nineteenth century opera, the usual form was for ther singer to sing a recitative, followed by a cavatina, then a linking recitative before a fast cabaletta, as in. _E strano, e strano _(recitative), _Ah, fors' e lui _(cavatina) _Follie! Follie_ (recitative), _Sempre libera _(cabaletta) in *La Traviata*.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

This is what I feared . One response implies, the correct name is cantabile, the other cavatina. I should probably just call it "the slow movement".


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> This is what I feared . One response implies, the correct name is cantabile, the other cavatina. I should probably just call it "the slow movement".


No, Tsaras is correct.

N.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Cavatina is simply the first scene for a main role.

In the Italian wikipedia it's very well explained:





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it.wikipedia.org





_La cavatina è l'aria con cui in un'opera lirica italiana ciascun personaggio, e quindi ciascun interprete, si presenta in scena. In voga soprattutto nell'Ottocento, è nota anche come aria di sortita._

I think it's pretty easy to understand, no need to translate.

For instance, in the first scene of Norma, in "Norma": 

It's called Coro - Scena e Cavatina

And we have the recitative --> Sediziose voci, the cantabile --> Casta Diva, the tempo di mezzo --> Fine al rito, and the cabaletta --> Ah! bello a me ritorna

In this Opera forum there is a thread devoted to this structure, known as la solita forma or the Rossini code, under the title of My Favorite Cabaletta.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

schigolch said:


> Cavatina is simply the first scene for a main role.
> 
> In the Italian wikipedia it's very well explained:
> 
> ...


There was somewhere one, but important scholarly article, that calls the slow movement "cavatina" and created all this mess.

I should probably create a poll to reflect what people use or expect more.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

K.272


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> K.272


Sometimes your responses are obscure to me.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> Sometimes your responses are obscure to me.


Sorry, I meant that you should try the cavatina of that aria. As for your question, I think RIck RIekerT is RIghT.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

schigolch said:


> Cavatina is simply the first scene for a main role.
> 
> In the Italian wikipedia it's very well explained:
> 
> ...


This is all very well. However, it isn't only used to describe an entrance aria or _aria di sortita. _For example Anna's Al dolce guidami in Anna Bolena and Amina's Ah, non credea mirarti from Sonnambula are also Cavatinas.

N.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Only the first aria of a character includes a cavatina in Italian 19th opera. This is the rule. Apart from that you can call 'cavatina' whatever you want, but it's not the right name. It's a simple as that. 

I remember the same discussion in a seminar given by the late Alberto Zedda, and even him, the greatest Rossini specialist at that time, had a hard time explaining this (the Rossini Code) to part of the audience. 

In 18th century Italian practice, sometimes a 'cavatina' meant a short aria in one single session. But in 19th century opera, from Rossini onwards, this is not the case. However, there are people that use it sometimes as an incorrect replacement of 'cantabile'.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

schigolch said:


> Only the first aria of a character includes a cavatina in Italian 19th opera. This is the rule. Apart from that you can call 'cavatina' whatever you want, but it's not the right name. It's a simple as that.
> 
> I remember the same discussion in a seminar given by the late Alberto Zedda, and even him, the greatest Rossini specialist at that time, had a hard time explaining this (the Rossini Code) to part of the audience.
> 
> In 18th century Italian practice, sometimes a 'cavatina' meant a short aria in one single session. But in 19th century opera, from Rossini onwards, this is not the case. However, there are people that use it sometimes as an incorrect replacement of 'cantabile'.


The word "cantabile" is certainly less confusing in the context of opera.

By cavatina people sometimes mean

introductory aria of an operatic character
aria without repeats
the slow movement of the double aria

But after this thread I will probably avoid each of the words


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

From Wikipedia:

“A *cantabile movement*, or simply a "cantabile", is the first half of a double aria, followed by a cabaletta. The cantabile movement would be slower and more free-form to contrast with the structured and generally faster cabaletta.”

“A cabaletta is a more animated section following the songlike cantabile.”

“A favoured form of aria in the first half of the 19th century in Italian opera was the _cabaletta_, in which a songlike _cantabile_ section is followed by a more animated section, the _cabaletta_ proper, repeated in whole or in part. Typically such arias would be preceded by recitative, the whole sequence being termed a _scena_.”


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Op.123 said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> “A *cantabile movement*, or simply a "cantabile", is the first half of a double aria, followed by a cabaletta. The cantabile movement would be slower and more free-form to contrast with the structured and generally faster cabaletta.”
> 
> ...


Looking at 19th century Ricordi scores of bel canto operas they seem to somewhat support Wikipedia (entrance arias are termed _recitativo e cavatina_ whereas the finale arias are called _scena e aria finale)._ The slow movement of these two part arias (which is what the OP was about) do tend to be marked Cantabile or Andante cantabile, but the cabalettas aren't labelled as such, but have the indication of the tempo (Allegro, allegretto, allegro moderato etc.).

This Italian musical dictionary from 1826 doesn't help matters, but a cavatina isn't described as only relating to an entrance aria, cantabile isn't mentioned as being a word used for any type of aria and cabaletta is mentioned as a type of aria with two verses and being at a fastish tempo or the final part of an aria, duet or trio.
Dizionario di musica - Peter Lichtenthal - Google Books 

Was there ever a standard term used to mean "the slow first section of an aria in more than one part"?

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I have never experienced any confusion about these terms.

_Cantabile,_ an adjective, means "songlike" ( from _cantare_, "to sing"). It's frequently encountered as an instruction to perform in a lyrical, legato manner. It may be used as a title for a piece possessing such a lyrical, singing character, in the same way that "allegro" - also an adjective - may be a title for a piece to be played briskly_._

"Cavatina" is a noun referring to a song or songlike piece which generally has a lyrical, cantabile quality (whence the confusion). Beethoven, in his String Quartet in Bb, Op. 130, calls the slow movement "Cavatina." In opera, the term is typically affixed to the first, slower section of a dual aria, of which the second, faster section is called the "cabaletta" (possibly from cavallo, "horse," referring to the galloping rhythms typical of these pieces in Italian opera).

Wikipedia to the contrary, I have always encountered and used the terms "cavatina" and "cabaletta" for this traditional dual aria structure. The cavatina is very likely to be sung _cantabile _(adjective), but I would never call the cavatina (noun) a "cantabile" (adjective, and noun by extension) unless it were so marked in the score.

Plenty of terms get confused and conflated in popular usage. I'm for maintaining common, standard, traditional, logical and useful distinctions conducive to clarity of thought and communication.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Let's add difficulty. The duets and ensenbles in bel canto also have this two part structure. How do you call the slow part of the duet there ?

What I mean is, you can call the duet part a cantabile without looking ridiculous. Cavatina - not so much. Ensenble would also be reasonable as cantabile, although the internet says it should be Largo. 

But the language is what we make it, so I wanted to know the opinion of the group.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I have never experienced any confusion about these terms.
> 
> _Cantabile,_ an adjective, means "songlike" ( from _cantare_, "to sing"). It's frequently encountered as an instruction to perform in a lyrical, legato manner. It may be used as a title for a piece possessing such a lyrical, singing character, in the same way that "allegro" - also an adjective - may be a title for a piece to be played briskly_._
> 
> ...


This has always been my understanding too.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

For what it's worth the Oxford History of Western Music calls it the cantabile-cabaletta format too. My feeling is that a cantabile is a more generalised term, while cavatina applies to slow arias with certain characteristics, but I'm not 100% on that one.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)




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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)




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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Evidently, the use of the term "cavatina" has changed over time, but certain characteristics have been constant. According to one web site, Bach used it to refer to a simple melodic passage presented after a recitative and before an aria, while later opera composers used it to refer to vocal pieces characterized by simplicity of structure and lyricism, whether those pieces stood alone or were paired with contrasting ones. Simplicity - a clear melodic structure and an absence of development and contrast - seems to be a main distinguishing trait. This describes well the typical first section of the cavatina/cabaletta form, in which each of the two parts has a simple, clear-cut character and complexity is provided by their juxtaposition and contrast.

"Cantabile/cabaletta" seems to be used by some, but it's a linguistic gryphon, the second term being always a noun while the first is originally an adjective indicating a certain musical character and corresponding manner of execution. There's no neccessity for the first part of a dual aria to be performed, much less marked, "cantabile," although it no doubt usually is in the genre of Italian opera where we generally find the form. 

Verdi inherited the cavatina/cabaletta from his predecessors but increasingly found it an artificial structure, fun to hear and great for vocal display but not always useful for moving the drama forward. I can't think offhand of any examples in his late operas, or in any operas by Puccini and his contemporaries.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> View attachment 177429


I don't want to pick hairs (ok, I do!), but I disagree about 'without repeated sections'. Casta diva (which is a cavatina _even _according to Wikipedia) has two verses which are the same (or thereabouts) only with different words. I believe that a Cavatina was an aria, usually with two verses, but no middle section as opposed to a Da capo aria with an ABA structure (so the Cavatina is AA).

And MAS, this is no reflection on you, I realise you are just posting sources to help come to a conclusion.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Let's add difficulty. The duets and ensenbles in bel canto also have this two part structure. How do you call the slow part of the duet there ?
> 
> What I mean is, you can call the duet part a cantabile without looking ridiculous. Cavatina - not so much. Ensenble would also be reasonable as cantabile, although the internet says it should be Largo.
> 
> But the language is what we make it, so I wanted to know the opinion of the group.


I've always used 'slow movement' for the first part of an ensemble written in the same style and 'stretto' for the fast final section. However, I have seen cabaletta used for that as well. In the dictionary I linked to above it does allow for the use of the term cabaletta for the fast, final part of a duet or trio as well.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Verdi inherited the cavatina/cabaletta from his predecessors but increasingly found it an artificial structure, fun to hear and great for vocal display but not always useful for moving the drama forward. I can't think offhand of any examples in his late operas, or in any operas by Puccini and his contemporaries.


Julian Budden suggests in his final volume of _The Operas of Verdi _that _Si pel cie_l in *Otello *is a cabaletta. 



> Iago's work has been accomplished; the act requires a 'clinching'design; and for Verdi even in 1887 there was none better than the cabeletta with its formal repetitions that drive home the poit that has been made. Hene for the first time since the choral episode a symmetrial melody with a self-propagating rhythmic pattern. No wonder that the unsophisticated find this the most enjoyable moment in the opera. It is of course a cabaletta with a difference, since nobody at this time was writing the conventional Doniettian variety.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Julian Budden suggests in his final volume of _The Operas of Verdi _that _Si pel cie_l in *Otello *is a cabaletta.


Ah yes, I have heard that suggested by another person as well. However, there isn't a corresponding cavatina for it, is there? You could term the willow song a cavatina, but the Ave Maria isn't a cabaletta and comparing Verdi's treatment with the same scene in Rossini's Otello almost tells you everything you need to know about the development of 18th century Italian opera.

I think Vepres is the last Verdi opera to use the Cavatina/Cabaletta formula.

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> I don't want to pick hairs (ok, I do!), but I disagree about 'without repeated sections'. Casta diva (which is a cavatina _even _according to Wikipedia) has two verses which are the same (or thereabouts) only with different words. I believe that a Cavatina was an aria, usually with two verses, but no middle section as opposed to a Da capo aria with an ABA structure (so the Cavatina is AA).
> 
> And MAS, this is no reflection on you, I realise you are just posting sources to help come to a conclusion.
> 
> N.


I was mostly trying to illustrate the differences between the words _cavatina_ and _cantabile._


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Deleted


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

..............................


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

If we can transfer the idea to non-Italian opera, how about the two sections of Siegfried's sword-forging music as a kavatina/kabaletta?


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> What's he cavatina that precedes it?


I think there is none. I actually deleted it, because I became unsure if I didn't make it up.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BBSVK said:


> I think there is none. I actually deleted it, because I became unsure if I didn't make it up.


I'll delete my post too, in order to preserve your reputation.


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