# why is pop nowaday so bad?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Dont get me wrong i dont hate POP music but were are the *my bloody valentine* of nowaday per se, good quality pop guitar laden , i hate commercial prefabricated pop like Nikelback, there song are lame ...Just because the singer is consider good looking, i said consider good looking, and it's always like this, canadian rock , whit a thin guitar sound and stupid frat boy song why???

When i was younger pop was better , now it's radio friendly pop, music you can even sing along because it's not memorable.Just like canadian film , english canadian, everyone beautifull tall, the women are are pretty but were the talent dammit...

I would preffered uglier people , as pop singer that can sing and actor that are good , just like in politic i would have preffer John lovitz to Justin Trudeau, i really dont know what american and european think he a superhero he a super zero, less handsomeness more brain i say

Are you wwhit me, sometime ugly are so called ugly people make better ruler of country, better singer , better actor.

:lol:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Perhaps because pop music simply has fewer and fewer places left to go. These days it is far harder to wring any kind of originality from what's already been done. Listen to virtually anything in the pop charts now and it could easily have been written fifteen to twenty years ago - re-distilling the same tired old formula seems to be the only option left and that does nothing but generate mediocrity. Even those few guitar bands who manage to get into the charts (Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon etc.) are dull beyond belief.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Canadian 70s-on pop/rock is about as abysmal as it gets. Don't even bring it up.

Anyways, to answer your question: pop is so bad _because the great Sammy Davis Jr. is no more._


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Tip #1: Don't use Nickelback as your reference point for pop music. They are a small sliver of what is out there.

There is still great music coming from people like Celine Dion, Kelly Clarkson, and many others.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

I think it's not true that there's no good new music anymore, it's just much harder to find it. There's a bit of overproduction and charts being saturated with mediocre music. But if you dig a bit deeper, you can find some decent stuff.
Here are 2 good songs from 2017:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Maybe Canadian pop is different, but down here in Nashville, the pop stations play songs which are less rock-based and more hip-hop-based. It seems like a corner has been turned away from the standard guitar-bass-drum sound to the voice of one singer over prefabricated computer-generated riffs and repeated chord patterns. I don't know if today's pop is worse (the stuff I used to listen to as a kid was kind of lame - like _Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I've Got Love in my Tummy_); it's just starting to sound different.

Of course, 71-year-old John Prine is still as quirky as ever and just released this one with a guitar, bass, piano, and interesting lyrics.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

John Seabrook's "The Song Machine" is a good article on this topic.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/03/26/the-song-machine


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

There is one more recent Canadian bands I like, which is Mother Mother. I hate Arcade Fire, which is so pretentious.

Check out this


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

These folks are not bad either. Folk duo from Sweden:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Blancrocher said:


> John Seabrook's "The Song Machine" is a good article on this topic.
> 
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/03/26/the-song-machine


Yep, it's all about manipulating people.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Re: Lorde, St Vincent

If that's some of the best pop of 2017, count me out. So many of these young female singers all have this annoying affected and completely unoriginal vocal sound and style. I might be able to relate to that Lorde song if I were a 14 year old girl feeling sorry for myself.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Pop is not always "so bad." You gotta know where to look! I love Kiesza's _Hideaway_ & the incredible dance video she did in one continuous take in NY; it must have taken days to work out. For those who are older, it's sometimes too easy to forget that one was once young. I would have been crazy about her vibrancy, creativity & sexiness. Youth is not always wasted on the young. There are a million-and-one-things that could go wrong in this video, but the youth and energy of everyone pull it off. I love her spirit and her moves...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

B/C the intention of current mainstream pop isn't artistry, it's about what will make the quickest buck.

St. Vincent is awesome, btw!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Some excellent pop right here, one of my favorites:


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

None of you have even heard the worst of it, and it just gets worse from here:











The stuff* I hear everyday at work....... 

*(you know what word I want to use)


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

This is not bad either:
Beyonce (2016) doing a solid country:






another St. Vincent (2014):






and yet another (2011):


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Pop has always been mostly bad--it's the nature of music and art to be mostly bad or boring or not our thing. Here is a song (I repeat exhibiting it again here) by a famous contemporary Pop singer/songwriter that I find so moving that "maybe it isn't really Pop" at all:


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Should read:

"Why is nowaday's pop so bad?"


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Strange Magic said:


> Pop has always been mostly bad--it's the nature of music and art to be mostly bad or boring or not our thing.


All music; pop, classical, jazz, whatever, is subject to Sturgeon's Law!

Same as it ever was.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, there's always been plenty of mediocre stuff, but there were also many very talented artists that got recognized, became famous, and made a full time living from their music. Now just about all of the famous pop stars are mediocre talents and young women performing in lingerie. Joni Mitchell and Linda Ronstadt didn't need to perform in their underwear to sell records.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I would put some pop reccomendations that I usually listen to, but I don't think it would change anyone's minds, The most stupid Disney pop music I liked 10 years ago cannot be taken away from the emotional attachment I had with that music at that age. It's a genre that is usually shared with people, or can be put up with more easily by untrained ears. When I listen to INNA I never care about the cheapness of the lyrics or production compared to other genres. She was and is still the artist I relate the most to the "Summer" a very heated season in Spain and the one I enjoy the most every year. My first steps into Alternative and Indie music were by listening to Lana del Rey and Björk, the latter which was reccomended by the 2012 Eurovision winner, Loreen.






That you've been able to drive away from pop or commercial music is the best news that you could give yourself. It's useless to feel pity about those people that have remained in a very confined but anyway emotional world.

And yay Lorde! <3


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

And by the way, I know a great and raved vocal album that serves as a score for the Summer: "Trouble in Paradise" by La Roux.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

starthrower said:


> Yes, there's always been plenty of mediocre stuff, but there were also many very talented artists that got recognized, became famous, and made a full time living from their music. Now just about all of the famous pop stars are mediocre talents and young women performing in lingerie. Joni Mitchell and Linda Ronstadt didn't need to perform in their underwear to sell records.


Hmmm, have you seen the inside of the album _For The Roses_ and inside Rolling Stone magazine for December 2, 1976?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Room2201974 said:


> Hmmm, have you seen the inside of the album _For The Roses_ and inside Rolling Stone magazine for December 2, 1976?


Yes, and it's a very tasteful photo. And the music on For The Roses happens to be brilliant, so I doubt people bought the record to see a naked bum. Those can be seen anywhere. I don't know about Rolling Stone. Joni can actually write great songs, and play excellent guitar and piano. Can Brittany Spears or Beyonce do this?


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

starthrower said:


> Yes, and it's a very tasteful photo. And the music on For The Roses happens to be brilliant, so I doubt people bought the record to see a naked bum. Those can be seen anywhere. I don't know about Rolling Stone. Joni can actually write great songs, and play excellent guitar and piano. Can Brittany Spears or Beyonce do this?


Not comparing Linda and Joni to any current singer, but in the both cases I reference, Joni and Linda were not selling records that's for sure!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Granate said:


> That you've been able to drive away from pop or commercial music is the best news that you could give yourself. It's useless to feel pity about those people that have remained in a very confined but anyway emotional world.


Interesting viewpoint. I foresee myself as never being fully liberated from the shackles of pop or commercial music (sobs), but I do agree that pity for those with musical tastes different from our own is indeed useless--they may be happier than we!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

starthrower said:


> Yes, and it's a very tasteful photo. And the music on For The Roses happens to be brilliant, so I doubt people bought the record to see a naked bum. Those can be seen anywhere. I don't know about Rolling Stone. Joni can actually write great songs, and play excellent guitar and piano. Can Brittany Spears or Beyonce do this?


First, you have an amazing memory, Room 2201974, to pull out these references.

However, I think it should also be noted, the Linda Ronstadt photo was more of an Annie Leibovitz thing, wasn't it? She had a habit of photographing people in skimpy clothing. She did the same thing to Carly Simon. Back then, Annie was the "it" photographer, and people went along with whatever she suggested.

As to Joni Mitchell, I don't remember anyone mentioning the photo as the reason they bought that album, at least in my neck of the woods. Joni was a hippie; that kind of thing was what hippies did. In fact, For the Roses was the only album of hers selected by the Library of Congress to go in the National Recording Registry, so it must have had thought it had some merit beyond the photo.

Either way, neither of those two made that the centerpiece of their music, as opposed to many current singers, which I think was starthrower's point.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Manxfeeder said:


> First, you have an amazing memory, Room 2201974, to pull out these references.
> 
> However, I think it should also be noted, the Linda Ronstadt photo was more of an Annie Leibovitz thing, wasn't it? She had a habit of photographing people in skimpy clothing. She did the same thing to Carly Simon. Back then, Annie was the "it" photographer, and people went along with whatever she suggested.
> 
> ...


Yes I got the point *Starthrower* was making, but my point is that neither Linda nor Joni shied away from using their considerable sex appeal to sell records. Why did Linda agree to the shoot dressed in a negligee? Why would Joni pose nude on the inside of a record cover? No one was twisting their arms to sell their sex appeal....along with records. If the effect of using sex appeal is more overt now, it's because there is a solid foundation for it established by previous performers.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Room2201974 said:


> Yes I got the point *Starthrower* was making, but my point is that neither Linda nor Joni shied away from using their considerable sex appeal to sell records. Why did Linda agree to the shoot dressed in a negligee? Why would Joni pose nude on the inside of a record cover? No one was twisting their arms to sell their sex appeal....along with records. If the effect of using sex appeal is more overt now, it's because there is a solid foundation for it established by previous performers.


That's true; performers have always relied on things like that to promote themselves, going all the way back to Elvis Presley and probably even farther, if they could get away with it.

But looking back, I still don't think Linda Ronstadt needed to do anything but flash those incredible eyes to get anyone's attention (I think her costar in Pirates of Penzance called them eyes to die for). And I never saw Joni Mitchell as needing to sell her looks to get her point across. (I never thought she was that attractive compared to others who were flaunting their looks). Personally, her photograph strikes me as a statement of innocence, of her going back to nature without inhibition (again, the hippie mindset), and I think that was her intention. Of course, I could be wrong. That period was strange, the transition from the hippie free love to the materialism and hedonism which began in the early '70s and the disco era.

I can think of others back then who _were_ overtly sexual to make their mark. And I think Donna Summer is more of a catalyst for what is happening now than these two. Her hit song was a shock that it warranted an article in Time magazine complete with a picture of her singing while sitting suggestively with limbs akimbo.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2018)

Why the silly voice with St Vincent? Sounds like a Tori Amos clone but without the talent.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

ZJovicic said:


> I think it's not true that there's no good new music anymore, it's just much harder to find it. There's a bit of overproduction and charts being saturated with mediocre music. But if you dig a bit deeper, you can find some decent stuff.
> Here are 2 good songs from 2017:


was St Vincent tune, 2nd video, written by the same writers that wrote the movie "Good Fellows"?


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2018)

I would think that Linda Ronstadt's looks would have boosted her popularity somewhat (eg the cover on Hasten Down the Wind) but really it isn't possible to compare her talent with some of the dross posted on this thread.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

ldiat said:


> was St Vincent tune, 2nd video, written by the same writers that wrote the movie "Good Fellows"?


I think she writes her own material.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2018)

Here is a good pop song written recently.






What do you young folk think of it?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Tulse said:


> Here is a good pop song written recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is awesome! I love it.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

MEW - Introducing Palace Players

My favorite newer band, they have all kinds of new music out (Actually, they go back about 20 years, lol).


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> This is awesome! I love it.


Great! And apologies to all for my overly dismissive comments about your chosen singers yesterday.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm curious; is this pop music? Lake Street Dive formed at the New England Conservatory of Music, so they have chops, and they are consistently interesting. This song features a 6/8 verse and 4/4 chorus.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2018)

I like that one Manx.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

some more Lorde


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

Robots are now capable of singing but still sound like garbage:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Tulse said:


> I would think that Linda Ronstadt's looks would have boosted her popularity somewhat (eg the cover on Hasten Down the Wind) but really it isn't possible to compare her talent with some of the dross posted on this thread.


BTW, Ronstadt is one of the most successful female artists in the history of the music business. She made millions singing live in concert, and not by making stupid videos. She was the first female rocker to front a band playing huge arenas back in the 70s.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> BTW, Ronstadt is one of the most successful female artists in the history of the music business. She made millions singing live in concert, and not by making stupid videos. She was the first female rocker to front a band playing huge arenas back in the 70s.


She is my favorite female non-classical singer. Also did some albums of Spanish music and big band with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra--all very well done!


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Almost every pop song in the last decade or so, have been written by the same 2 guys, Max Martin and Lukasz Gottwald. They literally write songs like an assembly line.

Take a look at this list of hits written by Max Martin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Max_Martin

To make matters even worse, there have been several studies (analyzing databases of millions of songs) in the last few years, that show that modern POP music has less timbrel and harmonic complexity. Modern POP is also more likely to state the the 'hook' earlier in the song, and state it more often than in decades past. Also, there is much less variation in tempos, compared to decades past.

"second trend that was detected was the restriction of pitch transitions, with metrics showing less variety in pitch progressions"

"researchers detected a trend of homogenization of the timbral palette"

https://newatlas.com/pop-music-trends/23535/

https://mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same#.dRrAyPoLc

This is not a case of older generations believing their music is superior to modern POP, it is quantifiable.

Now, you kids get off mu lawn!


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2018)

Linda Ronstadt had a very powerful voice for a rock singer. It is good that she moved to those other genres to demonstrate her talent further. She was also instrumental in forwarding the careers of a number of aspiring musicians in the 70s, Emmylou Harris being the best example maybe.

She is also very intelligent and articulate, as evidenced by a number of interviews on You Tube.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Tulse said:


> Linda Ronstadt had a very powerful voice for a rock singer. It is good that she moved to those other genres to demonstrate her talent further. She was also instrumental in forwarding the careers of a number of aspiring musicians in the 70s, Emmylou Harris being the best example maybe.
> 
> She is also very intelligent and articulate, as evidenced by a number of interviews on You Tube.


She created quite a stir for us Californians when she dated Governor Jerry Brown. They must have had some interesting discussions.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2018)

Yes, especially given her left wing politics.

Apparently Brown has made something of a comeback in recent years?


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Simon Moon said:


> Almost every pop song in the last decade or so, have been written by the same 2 guys, Max Martin and Lukasz Gottwald. They literally write songs like an assembly line.
> 
> Take a look at this list of hits written by Max Martin:
> 
> ...


Does it apply to POP as a narrowly defined genre or to popular music as a whole (which can include anything from indie rock, to funk, to R&B and to thrash metal). I guess it applies only to narrowly defined pop. But then what belongs to this category? Pop is not the same as popular. Pop is a genre. Popular can mean two things: 1) anything that is non-classical and non-traditional; 2)anything that achieves huge popularity: be it Fifth Symphony or Despacito.

This is important because there is still good new popular music out there, it just might be in genres other than pop.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Tulse said:


> Linda Ronstadt had a very powerful voice for a rock singer. It is good that she moved to those other genres to demonstrate her talent further. She was also instrumental in forwarding the careers of a number of aspiring musicians in the 70s, Emmylou Harris being the best example maybe.
> 
> She is also very intelligent and articulate, as evidenced by a number of interviews on You Tube.


Ah yes, I do recall that Linda did an album with a country star, and it probably is Emmylou Harris.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Sadly, it may be that a lot of people are not liking the types of people that the "system" of power uplifts to such positions. I am all for making my life a heaven in my own mind and heart, so I don't think the current generation is bad. What I do think is that there is a need for more courage to education everyone around us, including the very rich. That is something that has failed. There is a ton of revisionist type history, saying the old greats were not so good, when in fact they are still the greats.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

If only all pop music could be like this...


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

most pop music is generic crap that a computer could have composed. For example this song in the style of Beatles was composed by an AI


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## malc (Apr 19, 2018)

People like this music , on a day to day basis , listening to the radio , in every era of "Evergreen" pieces , there were the other 200 tunes coming out that week , my dad left me a copy of "nobody loves a fairy when shes forty" and many other scintillators from the 30s and 40s.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Tulse said:


> Yes, especially given her left wing politics.
> 
> Apparently Brown has made something of a comeback in recent years?


He has, and I'm amazed. He's turning into a climate-change rock star. I saw a photo of him in China. Going up the escalator was the official U.S. representative with one or two minor officials, and on the other was Gov. Brown descending with a gaggle of Chinese higher-ups.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Ah yes, I do recall that Linda did an album with a country star, and it probably is Emmylou Harris.


Linda Ronstadt did two albums with Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris and one just with Emmylou Harris. She also did standards with Nelson Riddle, Mexican, operetta (Mabel in "The Pirates of Penzance") and opera (Mimi in "La Boheme").


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm curious; is this pop music? Lake Street Dive formed at the New England Conservatory of Music, so they have chops, and they are consistently interesting. This song features a 6/8 verse and 4/4 chorus.


My brother got me interested in them. And this morning I heard a song from their forthcoming album on WFUV. Yesterday on WFUV I heard a 1970's Linda Ronstadt classic. I mention this because I had been undecided about posting about WFUV, the radio station of Fordham University in NYC. WFUV offers a wonderful blend of old popular with current indie rock.

On Sundays you get religious programming (it's a Jesuit school) and Irish music. And sometimes you get college basketball games.

http://www.wfuv.org/

Oh - I also discovered St. Vincent on WFUV. I bought the album.


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## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

I think y'all are slightly out of touch with what is truly "POP" music nowadays. The groups you've mentioned are mostly pop-rock or folk. That isn't anywhere near modern day pop music in terms of quality...

Pop music is so much worse....

The Chainsmokers are one of the most popular artists in popular music, along with Nikki Minaj (Hip-Hop has become the new Pop, it's probably the biggest genre right now), Taylor Swift (Use to be country, now she is a HOT MESS), and the most egregious of all offenders... Rihanna (She has some songs I like, but she shamelessly exploits trends.)

These are the pinnacle of the same chord progressions with different lyrics. Taylor Swift is bizarre, churning out things so unstylistic and cynical, turning the music charts into a drama forum, releasing songs such as "Bad Blood" and "Look what you made me do" that are literally about celebrity feuds. Nikki Minaj has a talent for lyricism and tune-writing when she applies herself, but has resorted to writing generic mumble-hip-hop tunes to rack in cash.

Fear not! There are a few new artists who are producing genuine works of art. Harry Styles, a former member of the pop band "One Direction" released a self-titled album last year, with the album hearkening back to the days of Art-Rock and Glam-Rock, with such great songs as "Meet me in the hallway", "From the dining table" and the powerful rock-ballad "Sign of the Times". Lady GaGa, known for her dancefloor pop songs of the late 2000's, has returned with songs that return back to her art-pop creativity, and even a few lyrical pop-ballads. 

But generally, what is popular to the masses is utter garbage nowadays.


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## malc (Apr 19, 2018)

The masses have always liked garbage because it makes them happy?


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

In general it is Preferred that one has a ''happy go lucky'' attitude toward life than an ''overthinking'' one...I even made a topic about it Witty mind and how to achieve it...


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2018)

Amy Winehouse, LeeAnn Rimes, Duffy.


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

This one is quite frankly, embarrassing


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Used to love pop when I was young but as I got older, went straight off it. Most of the "so-called" singers can't sing a note, has a continuous thud all the way through and as for rapping, call that singing??????


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

Judith said:


> Used to love pop when I was young but as I got older, went straight off it. Most of the "so-called" singers can't sing a note, has *a continuous thud* all the way through and as for rapping, call that singing??????


"Nowadays"? The whole point of pop is to make music that is *pop*ular (geddit?), with either a strong and simple vocal or a strong and simple beat, or both.

The Honeycombs...from 1964!






As for focusing on 'rap', it's not the only branch of pop and shouldn't be used to demonise the whole genre.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MacLeod said:


> "Nowadays"? The whole point of pop is to make music that is *pop*ular (geddit?), with either a strong and simple vocal or a strong and simple beat, or both.
> 
> The Honeycombs...from 1964!


Never heard of them before. Fascinating! And a lady drummer!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Pop was invented so that people could wring their hands and lash out at the degraded tastes of others. It's part of the plan by The Masters to keep the masses docile and the Intelligentsia occupied when their attention wanders from the Serious Music they should be listening to (instead of uselessly posting about others' musical sins).


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> "Nowadays"? The whole point of pop is to make music that is *pop*ular (geddit?), with either a strong and simple vocal or a strong and simple beat, or both.
> 
> The Honeycombs...from 1964!
> 
> ...


I remember as a child being told off by my parents (several times) for repeatedly stamping on the floor to this. It's a sort of proto-metal, I feel.

(Savile was always a creepy ***)


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

I got told off for this too!


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

dogen said:


> I got told off for this too!


This was the other band from the period that I had in mind who well exemplified a thumping beat, but any rock and roll from the 50s onwards had the kind of infectious driving rhythm that must have been similarly irritating to those for whom pop is anathema.

The OP laments that there is no equivalent today to My Bloody Valentine, but they were no more 'pop' than Radiohead. I listen to very little 'new' pop or rock, spending much more time with classical, so I couldn't answer the OP's cry - is there an equivalent to MBV - but I find it helpful to keep an eye on what is in the lists in Metacritic's albums of the year.

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best-albums-released-in-2017


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> but I find it helpful to keep an eye on what is in the lists in Metacritic's albums of the year.
> 
> http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best-albums-released-in-2017


Well, I've heard of three of those artists. I must be just about ready to be a high court judge


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

Judith said:


> Used to love pop when I was young but as I got older, went straight off it. Most of the "so-called" singers can't sing a note, has a continuous thud all the way through and as for rapping, call that singing??????


Can't sing, continuous thud...aah happy memories of my parents comments about the rubbish I was enjoying all those years ago!


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

dogen said:


> Well, I've heard of three of those artists. I must be just about ready to be a high court judge


How far down did you go? I ticked off 9 from the top 50 that I'd heard of - and I've actually heard music by four or five of them - though not the featured albums (I've got albums by The National and The xx).


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

All the way!
Paul Weller, Robert Plant and Randy Newman. Artists with _proper_ names!


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

dogen said:


> All the way!
> Paul Weller, Robert Plant and Randy Newman. Artists with _proper_ names!


LOL! (Is that passé these days?)

Randy is the only one with a proper name to whom I'd give house room, though I had to let Weller in once as he was accompanying Robert Wyatt! The Jam were a proper pop band and I went to see them twice back in the day - but once they went all Style Council and smug, I went off them.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

For myself, of the three, I don't mind a bit of Zep (I've got one whole album). My brother was a big Matching Mole fan as I recall. To be fair, most of my tastes in popular music were never really mainstream.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

''It is what it is''...We must avoid grumpiness and remember there were difficult times for arts and good taste in past too...Good thing about modern world is that everyone can find his or her place, like here, where no one can bother you...Others have a choice, its on them, not on us.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Neil Finn - _Second Nature_


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

dogen said:


> I remember as a child being told off by my parents (several times) for repeatedly stamping on the floor to this. It's a sort of proto-metal, I feel.


The Dead Kennedys used to cover this at some of their early live shows so you may well be right.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2018)

chill782002 said:


> The Dead Kennedys used to cover this at some of their early live shows so you may well be right.


_Really!?_ The things said in jest...


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I haven't really paid attention to the charts for about 20 years or so but if what my teenage daughter blasts out from her room is what attains their higher reaches nowadays then you can keep it. I was never really into "pop", my musical tastes at her age were more grunge, punk, 70s hard rock and thrash metal (God help me) but I try not to be like my father who used to complain about "that incessant drumming" so I just ignore it as best I can.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

dogen said:


> _Really!?_ The things said in jest...


Oh yes...


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2018)

Perhaps the OP is right - pop nowadays doesn't compare to pop when I was listening to it



Room2201974 said:


> Neil Finn - _Second Nature_


I think I'll follow this one up, but I saw Split Enz live in Southampton when I was 18 ('77) and got backstage too! They didn't become 'pop' until their breakthrough single in 1980. I had the album (True Colours), but had to ditch it as it reminded me of my break-up with a girlfriend.

That is, of course, exactly what pop is about.



chill782002 said:


> The Dead Kennedys used to cover this at some of their early live shows so you may well be right.


Well, didn't know that - but the DKs' could hardly be described as pop either.

Contains scenes that some viewers might find upsetting...


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Judith said:


> Used to love pop when I was young but as I got older, went straight off it. Most of the "so-called" singers can't sing a note, has a continuous thud all the way through and as for rapping, call that singing??????


Well, one of those rappers just got a Pulitzer. It's a different age, I guess.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> Well, one of those rappers just got a Pulitzer. It's a different age, I guess.


I doubt many rappers would call what they do "singing," except when they actually try to sing-like André 3000 on Hey Ya (a pretty good pop song, imo, if horribly overplayed when it came out).


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

After I first saw this thread, I had to take some time to think about the topic. It is a rather difficult question for a variety of reasons, and I think the various meanderings of this thread (interestingly, often into music that people actually like) illustrate the difficulty. I find it impossible to answer this question in any sort of objective way, although I do find that contemporary "pop" music (as I find the genre) is largely not to my taste, while I like a lot of older "pop" music.

The term "pop" is so vague and ill defined that it is difficult to discuss the topic. The overall category of popular music is far too diverse to make any generalizations. However, it may be possible with a narrowly defined "pop" genre. As I have always interpreted the word, it points to the world of slickly produced, commercial, middle-of-the-road type music. The radio format category "adult contemporary", formerly known as "MOR (middle-of-the-road)," certainly qualifies. Music of a similar nature, but geared toward teenagers, should also fit within the pop umbrella. Top 40 radio should be full of this sort of music. In general, pop music, in order to appeal to a wide audience, needs to be simple, straightforward, and uncontroversial, although I find that sophistication will sometimes lurk beneath an apparently simplistic veneer. This is still rather vague, but it helps to bound my understanding of the term, so perhaps I can make some tentative points on this basis.

Simple, straightforward pop music is nothing new. For an early example of a straightforward, middle-of-the-road song, here is a 1909 recording by Henry Burr, an extremely popular singer of the acoustic era who is nearly forgotten now. His music is typical of the pre-jazz era: popular songs of a light classical nature and proto-Broadway style music - very much the "pop" music of his day.






It has all the hallmarks of a typical pop song - a catchy tune (especially the chorus), love lyrics (like the vast majority of pop songs), straightforward harmonics, and a style of singing and instrumentation that were typical for the time. (I like this style of music despite the poor sound quality, and Henry Burr is one of my favorite pop singers from the acoustic era.) How does this compare to today's pop music? Personally, I find a higher standard of musicianship in this ancient recording than I do in much of the contemporary music I have casually encountered. However, since I don't actively seek out contemporary pop, I might have heard too small a sample to justify my judgment. My major complaint - and this is a matter of personal preference - is that much of today's pop music sounds more programmed than performed. I feel like a computer is the real performer. That ancient acoustic recording has no electronics involved whatsoever, even in the recording process; it is a record of a single live performance. To me, it feels more "authentic" (whatever that means) than the synthesized and Autotuned soup that dominates the music scene these days. Perhaps this derives from my love for classical music; I prefer music performed by actual musicians and singers. If there is electronic manipulation, I prefer the sort that exhibits real originality and creativity and doesn't just sound like a vague, cheap imitation of instruments and orchestras. But this is just my opinion - the opposite opinion is equally valid.

A few posts back, somebody posted a link to studies indicating that pop music (however the authors of the study define it) has recently become simpler and more homogeneous in harmony and timbre. If so, this could provide objective evidence for the idea that pop music has become worse. But that rests on the assumption that this simplification is inherently undesirable, and to me, that is an opinion, albeit one with which I am in agreement.

Thankfully, we have far more music readily available to us today than has ever been the case, so if we don't like current trends in mainstream pop, we are free to listen to something else. Perhaps the fragmentation in musical taste enabled by this situation is the truly important trend.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

> Weird Heather: "Thankfully, we have far more music readily available to us today than has ever been the case, so if we don't like current trends in mainstream pop, we are free to listen to something else. Perhaps the fragmentation in musical taste enabled by this situation is the truly important trend".


Exactly! Couldn't have said it better.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Commercial pop music in the last 15 or more years is worse and worse. Probably because most stars have only 2 composers: Lukasz Gottwald and Max Martin. Other composers simply copy even same musical motifs because of philosophy that people will connect with something they already heard before, so they will buy it.

This is some of the music in last years that I do like. I especially love Brandi Carlile:


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> Well, one of those rappers just got a Pulitzer. It's a different age, I guess.


From what I read, rap/hip-hop is where musical creativity has moved. I wish I could say it's also from what I hear. Despite some effort (albeit not a wholehearted one) I can't adjust my musical sensibility to it.

Of course my parents (and I'm now 65) felt the same about rock.


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