# How to discover noise music ?



## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

Hello,

I do not expect an exhaustive list of what pieces I should listen to, what I should hear in them, etc.
I'm just very curious about some subjective opinions : 
How persons who listen to noise music perceive it ?
What are the first names of composer you'd advise me to listen ?
Is noise music a genre of music of its own or more an approach to composing (for instance, there are pieces by Murail and Radulescu which could be called noise music, at least for an ignorant like me).



Noise music has been a great discovery for me, and I look forward to learn more about it.


thanks


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

I perceive noise music more as noise than as music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I once asked in this group for youtube links to contemporary music that was on the same level as Beethoven and Mozart. Aside from one very simple piece by Avo Part, it was the nastiest collection of noise I ever heard. I think it was specifically selected to punish me. Perhaps you can find that old thread. For noise mining, it's a mother lode.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

Noise is indeed the name of a genre. Many of the people who perform this genre are from the rock world (as are many of its fans), but its construction and its effects are more closely aligned with contemporary classical music, which may partly explain why it keeps coming up on classical forums.

Noise is also a term of opprobrium. As such, it can be used to identify practically anything the user dislikes, regardless of any particular musical characteristics.

There are no pieces by Murail or Radulescu that could be called noise in any technical or musicological sense.

Merzbow. Incapacitants. Karkowski. Government Alpha. Xenakis. Those are some good names for noise. There are lots of things that are loud. And lots of things that are loud and noisy. Death metal, for instance. And the less a metal song relies on regular rhythms or on rhythm at all and the more it relies on sound, the closer it approaches noise.

The wiki article on Noise Music is actually quite good. You could do a lot worse than start with that.

[Edit: I should add, in response to bigshot's reminder, that "on the same level as Beethoven and Mozart" doesn't make any sense. But we do likes our "levels," don't we?]


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Stand under a busy metal bridge.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

Kopachris said:


> Stand under a busy metal bridge.


Mmmmmmmm. Busy metal bridge.

Delightful!!


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

_Incapacitants_ and their concert, I honestly could not tell the difference between noise and perceived music.






The only noise I do enjoy hearing for seconds of outburst is this, which I do every now and then myself:-


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

some guy said:


> Mmmmmmmm. Busy metal bridge.
> 
> Delightful!!


Indeed--especially if you like bass-heavy ambient music.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I honestly could not tell the difference between noise and perceived music.


You keep reminding us of your shortcomings. But really, HC, we all have shortcomings. It ain't no thang. How about spending more time thinking about your strengths?

Nice clips, though. Both of them.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> I once asked in this group for youtube links to contemporary music that was on the same level as Beethoven and Mozart. Aside from one very simple piece by Avo Part, it was the nastiest collection of noise I ever heard. I think it was specifically selected to punish me. Perhaps you can find that old thread. For noise mining, it's a mother lode.


Mozart and Beethoven (as awesome as Beethoven is) are not the ultimate in music. They were great, but there's lots of great composers. Maybe they picked some rather imposing pieces to punish you, but can you really blame modern music fans for not being amused when you call music they like "the nastiest collection of noise I ever heard"? I mean, I'm sure fans of Mozart and Haydn wouldn't like me calling their music "mindless, powdered wig noodlings for snooty stupid rich people" (thats not what I actually think, btw). It would be nice, and mature of you, to acknowledge that the music is difficult for you, rather than to just constantly insult it and those who write and enjoy it.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Mozart and Beethoven (as awesome as Beethoven is) are not the ultimate in music.


Mozart and Beethoven are at the top of their genres in music... just like Duke Ellington, Hank Williams and Irving Berlin. Saying they are great doesn't denigrate anyone else who is also great.

When I asked for contemporary music that was on a level with the best of other musical forms, I was presented with links to noise. One can talk a blue streak about how great contemporary classical music is, but I offered the opportunity to illustrate it conclusively. Aside from one Avo Part piece (which was listenable and nice, but not really great) all of the other examples appeared to be deliberately selected to shock. It didn't shock me. It just showed that those promoting contemporary classical knew that in a fair comparison, their pet genre didn't stand a chance.

If someone came to me and said, "Perhaps I don't know enough about Jazz. Show me the best of the best." I wouldn't go straight for the worst of the worst to try to convince them.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

bigshot said:


> When I asked for contemporary music that was on a level with the best of other musical forms, I was presented with links to noise.


Why so coy, though?

Give us the url of this thread so we can revisit it ourselves if we want.

So we can see what links were given to you.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The thread title "How to discover noise music?" made me think of an old joke.

Waiter asks, "And how did madam find her steak?" "Quite easily, thank you. I moved a pea and there it was."


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

some guy said:


> Give us the url of this thread so we can revisit it ourselves if we want. So we can see what links were given to you.


You were a participant in the thread. I don't know how to search for it. The only name I made a point of remembering in the discussion was Avo Part, and that name brings up a lot of threads. Perhaps someone else remembers how to find it.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Couldn't find your thread in threads you started. "On the same level as Beethoven" doesn't make much sense to me either, perhaps if you ask the wrong things of people you get the wrong answers.

Anyway here are some noise suggestions:

Full album of Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music. No one is quite sure if this was Lou's joke, a way to annoy his record label or the logical culmination of metal, a genre he also claims to have invented, but it is an important early album bringing noise into the semi-mainstream.






While noise is a genre lots of bands have included noise-like ideas, particularly drowning feedback in bands like _Sonic Youth _and _My Bloody Valentine_ which might be a soft entry into the world of noise, there is also the closely related genre of drone, _Sunn O)))_ seems to be the best modern example of that. Plus there is industrial bands such as _Whitehouse_ which are again similarly different.






Japanoise is a name often used as japanese artists produce a large proportion of well known noise music. Merzbow you all ready probably know is kinda the archetypal noisenik along with the other names some guy mentioned. Other famous names are _Hijokaidan_, _Gerogerigegege_ and _Boredoms_. A personal favourite of mine and a little more approachable than Merzbow is Met-Banana!!!!!!!!!






There are quite a few other experimental bands of various renown who played with noise such as _Throbbing Gristle_, _Nurse With Wound_, _V/VM_ and probably a whole lot more I don't remember right now.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

bigshot said:


> When I asked for contemporary music that was on a level with the best of other musical forms, I was presented with links to noise. One can talk a blue streak about how great contemporary classical music is, but I offered the opportunity to illustrate it conclusively. Aside from one Avo Part piece (which was listenable and nice, but not really great) all of the other examples appeared to be deliberately selected to shock. It didn't shock me. It just showed that those promoting contemporary classical knew that in a fair comparison, their pet genre didn't stand a chance.
> 
> If someone came to me and said, "Perhaps I don't know enough about Jazz. Show me the best of the best." I wouldn't go straight for the worst of the worst to try to convince them.


You don´t strike me as a "I-can-go-as-far-as-Debussy,-occasionally,-concerning-the-modern-music"-type .... If I was involved in that thread, IMHO, I´m pretty sure that links to more traditionally attractive music, including expansive symphonies and concertos for example, were provided.

Pärt is probably one of the best cases of psychologically comforting music, but one can´t expect contemporary music to be devoid of conflict material or merely pastiches of earlier styles. Symphonies of Holmboe (10-13), Sumera (5), Rochberg (3,5), Rautavaara, Petterson´s 8th, Rubbra, Silvestrov etc. would be illustrative of a vital, more modern middle-of-the-road style with rather attractive content.

Nørgård´s oeuvre is an example of a more varied palette, at time with moments of great beauty or enigma, primitive energy or glimpses of the past, quite radically different from the tradition and as such inventive and demanding a good deal of listening. Elliott Carter too. Or Messiaen in "Des canyons ...". But unfamiliarity could produce the "noise"-label to them.



> How to discover noise music ?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


As regards the OP, I don´t know if he´s done that, but for some enjoyable historical perspective of noise aesthetics, some references might be interesting to listen to, if nothing else as cultural utterances; a sketchy "_vintage noise_" chronology:

J. F. Rebel: "Les Elemens" (1737): 



interesting foreword by the composer: http://eventail.chez-alice.fr/AvertissementElemens_us.html

Russolo: there are several works on you-t, including
"Risveglio d´una citta": 



"Macchina tipografica" 



"L´Art Bruit", manifesto: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Art_des_bruit

Cowell: "The Tides of Manaunaun" 




Antheil: "Ballet Mecanique" 




Mosolov:" Iron Foundry" 




Varese:"Ionisation" 




Schwitters: from "Ursonate" 




Schaeffer/Henry: from "Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

Xenakis:"Bohor" 




Varese:"Poeme Electronique" (1958)


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I have Messaien's Canyon Etoiles and Varese's Ionization. They sound like cartoon soundtracks to me. (not that that's a bad thing). The ultimate work I've found like this is Ligeti's Nouvelle Aventures, which I'm convinced was created as a joke to see if anyone took it seriously. It's all interesting and I enjoy it to play for friends to create a goofy mood, but it doesn't give me anywhere near as much as Ives' symphonies or Central Park in the Dark. It's like the difference between using sound for the purpose of personal expression, and using sound purely for abstract effect.

When I listen to a Louis Armstrong trumpet solo or Beethoven's piano sonatas, I'm hearing an expression of humanity. I happen to really like people and i get excited when they create things that are bigger than they are. That's what I look for in music, and all art for that matter. I'm not interested in a concerto for screen door slamming or performance art with someone in their underpants smearing peanut butter in their hair. Stuff like that makes me angry because it belittles and demeans the human spirit to create.

I'll check your links. Thanks very much for taking the time.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks, the links were especially related to the OP though. It´s impossible you´ll find them a treat .


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2012)

When I listen to Messiaen's _Des Canyons aux Étoiles_ or Varèse's _Ionisation,_ I hear an expression of humanity.

When I listen to Henry's _Variations for a Door and a Sigh,_ I hear an expression of humanity.

People who belittle those works and others like them make me angry because they diminish the possibilities for what it means to be human into something impossibly narrow.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

bigshot said:


> I'm not interested in a concerto for screen door slamming or performance art with someone in their underpants smearing peanut butter in their hair. Stuff like that makes me angry because it belittles and demeans the human spirit to create.


You probably shouldn't make art like that if you believe it demeans the human spirit.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Is there actually a piece written for slamming screen door?! I just made that up!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Exactly, you make it up and then you complain about it, stop making art you don't like.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

(sorry, deleted).


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

quack said:


> You probably shouldn't make art like that if you believe it demeans the human spirit.


I'm not a musician, but I've been very fortunate in my humble career to never have to contribute to something I totally didn't believe in. Some projects have been better than others, and others didn't come out the way they should have, but the effort to create something of value was always there.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

How do you think you´d have reacted to "Le Sacre du Printemps",
if attending the premiere ?


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I have no idea actually. But it's not like I've never listened to modern/experimental music. When I was in college I had albums of Varese, Ligeti... I saved up and bought the box set of Einstein on the Beach. I had both of Throbbing Gristle's Annual Reports and 20 Jazz Funk Tunes. I listened to Eno's Thursday Afternoon, Daniel Lanois, Harold Budd, the guitar experiment albums by Frith and Fripp. I listened to it and was convinced that I was superior to all my friends who listened to Led Zeppelin, my mother who laid on the couch and listened to Rubinstein's Chopin, my dad who had Glenn Miller Air Force Band records, my sister the Beatlemaniac and my brother who liked the Stones... I was different. I was better than all them. I liked ART rock... Music that CHALLENGED the listener!

What happened to me then? I heard Cab Calloway's "Some of These Days" on a college radio station and it blew my mind. It had 100 times the energy, the musicianship, the sheer unmitigated joy of life than anything I was listening to. I went out promptly and got some of that stuff... Waller, Ellington, Armstrong... Then I wondered if maybe other genres that I'd dismissed as "old" and "too popular" might have great stuff I was missing out on too. That led to Wagner's operas, BeBop, pop vocals, country music... And here you find me, still with my horizons still expanding faster than I can listen to it all.

Maybe I should appreciate noise and art rock music because that's what started me out. But when I pull my Throbbing Gristle or Philip Glass LPs out and play them now, all I can say is "What the hell was I thinking?" To me with ears that have experenced so much in the past thirty years, it all sounds so threadbare and pretentious.

I'm always open to the possibility that musical genres may surprise me. I still haven't even written off punk or rap. But I've found that it takes a really knowledgeable guru to point me in the right directions, because I know some areas aren't stacked as high with riches as others are. So far, it seems that those who really champion modern music are college kids. Maybe it's "kid music". That's what it was for me. Who knows. Maybe I'll be surprised some day.

But I'm through with music I have to make excuses for and justify with lots of fancy words. I want music that I put on the stereo and it wows me. I keep finding more of that music than I have time to listen to, so it's not like I'll be running out and have to lower my standards anytime soon.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Fair enough (but still: you haven´t heard enough ).

We can agree about Glass though - he should have written a "Bagatelle for Piano" and stopped there .

He´s not _noisy_ though, it´s the quanta of it ...


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

It's not that I haven't heard enough. It's that I haven't heard the right ones yet.


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## Ivanovich (Aug 12, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Mozart and Beethoven are not the ultimate in music.


You're right. That distinction belongs to Johann Sebastian Bach.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> Maybe I should appreciate noise and art rock music because that's what started me out. But when I pull my Throbbing Gristle or Philip Glass LPs out and play them now, all I can say is "What the hell was I thinking?" To me with ears that have experenced so much in the past thirty years, it all sounds so threadbare and pretentious.


Somebody could make the same accusations to the music of Mozart and Beethoven and Chopin and Wagner. It wouldn't make an sense there either. I don't understand the mentality of listening to music _because_ you think its more challenging, and thus... somehow superior? People make this accusation towards modernist music fans all the time, and its usually the same people who think they're better because they love stuff like Mozart and Beethoven rather than stuff like Green Day or Skrillex. I don't listen to Cage or Varese or Zappa or Melt Banana or anything because I think its challenging, I listen to it because I think its beautiful, just as I think Chopin and Beethoven and Wagner are beautiful, not because they're of some "higher order" of music. To me, this concept is absurd, and I find it quite analogous with racism, sexism, bigotry of any kind. I think there is good music, but there's infinite varieties of completely different music that are all great. Beethoven isn't the ultimate, and neither is Schoenberg, nor the Beatles, nor Cage, nor Robert Johnson, nor Kraftwerk or anybody else.

Also, considering all the older folks making alot of this "kid's music" and listening to it, I think its a bit silly to call it kid's music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> I don't understand the mentality of listening to music _because_ you think its more challenging, and thus... somehow superior?


I was 20 years old. I blame the folly of youth. Everything I listened to back then was great to me. Everything I didn't know much about was flawed. It's an ego thing. "Oh yes! Brian Eno is a genius! His Discrete Music is SO MUCH better than his commercial work with Talking Heads and Devo. Listen to the sound textures of Thursday Afternoon. I'll play his video installation for you..." I'd spout bologna like that all the time. I forced my friends to listen to unrelenting "knee plays" and klackity prepared piano records. I made them watch slow motion footage of semi naked girls in bathtubs on a sideways TV. I was full of it, and I was too stupid to realize that what I was proud of was really my shame. I admit it. I've learned an awful lot about music since then.

Some things actually *are* better than other things. Figuring out which is which is a skill that you acquire just like any other skill. The longer you listen and think, the better you become. That isn't bigotry. It's discernment.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

Oh grasshopper. To have gone from one folly to a different folly, thinking that you've gone from folly to wisdom.

'Tis sad.

And now you seem bent on forcing what you think you've learned about music onto everyone else.

When I was 20, I was fairly bigoted. I thought that some things actually _are_ better than other things. I went from that to thinking that there were things that I liked and things that were good and that since they were not necessarily the same, wisdom was in knowing the difference.

But I've learned a lot since then, about music and about everything else.

The longer you listen and think, the more you realize how little you know, the more you realize how little can be known, the more humble you are, the less likely you are to make pronouncements from on high about standards and discernment, and the more willing you are to live and let live. Not everything is for you. Cherish the things that are. Accept that the things that aren't may be for someone else, no need for you to denigrate.

_That's_ wisdom, grasshopper.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

That is exactly what happened to me. When I was 20 I thought I knew it all. But I only knew one tiny backwater. Once I opened my horizons, I found more great music than I can ever listen to. Some fields are more fertile than others, but I know there is something good just about everywhere.

I got to this point by asking people for recommendations for "the good stuff" and listening to them. It's the reason I'm here. I want the good stuff. No second stringers or completism. Just the grade A prime meat. I've found some myself, and I'm happy to share what I've found with people who are interested. That's the game we're playing here. Join in.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

You're rewriting your earlier post already. Tut tut. That is not exactly what happened to you.

Whatever their similarities, our trajectories were quite different, and we have ended up in quite different places.

You did not, however you try to convince us, get to this point by asking people for recommendations for "the good stuff," you got to this point by having strong prejudices against certain musics, by challenging their proponents to accomplish things that were either silly or nonsensical, and by mocking anyone's attempt to supply you "the good stuff." You're not capable of recognizing "the [new] good stuff," yourself; you would do well to accept your limitations.

"I want the good stuff. No second stringers...." Right. And who gets to decide? You ask us, we answer, you mock us. If you can't take our advice, if you insist on calling our picks second rate or even "the worst," then we're very definitely NOT gonna play with you!


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Chicken!! Smiley here

You want A Team jazz? I'll give it to you. How about Cuban Big Band? Bluegrass? 50s Pop Vocals? Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar? I'd be happy and able to point you to the best and let you know why I think it's the best. Why are you so afraid to put up something you say is great and support it?

Honestly, there is an awful lot of talking about theories around here and not enough sharing what we like. Be brave. Be secure. Don't be afraid that your favorite music might be criticized. That's how we all learn.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

You might also want to consider politics.

You just keep saying that I'm afraid often enough, and you might be able to convince other people than yourself that it's true.:lol:

Dude, really? Are you for real? I've been on this board since April of 2007 and have a long history of talking about the music I like and taking flack for it. You've been here since November of 2011. Do you really think you can just make stuff up and get people to believe it? Good luck with that.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Would you mind pointing me to a thread where you posted a youtube video of a work you thought was on a par with the best of the past and discussed why you thought it was good?


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

We all need a good old fashioned Throbbing Gristle singalong, sing it with me:

There's never a way, there's never a day
To convince people
You can play their game, you can say their name
But won't convince people

There's several ways, and there's several ways
To convince people
Now you people, and we people, we've got a way
To convince people

It's the name of the game
It's the game of the name
Convincing people
Convincing people

Now there's several ways, and there's several days
To convince people
And there's several ways, there's never a way
To convince people

There's one way though, that you'll never convince people
And that's when you try, to be someone
Who's not telling and who's trying to compel
Who's trying to tell you, what you ought to be convinced of

So there's several ways, and there's several days
To convince your people, and you are the people

Convincing people
Convincing people


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

bigshot said:


> Would you mind pointing me to a thread where you posted a youtube video of a work you thought was on a par with the best of the past and discussed why you thought it was good?


You first. Find the thread you keep referring to where you asked for modern works as good as Beethoven and give us a link.

In the meantime, "on a par with the best of the past" has so much wrong with it, we could spend all our time while we're waiting for the link just exploring that.

OK, you think that the phrase "on a par with the best of the past" is perfectly sensible. Fine. I do not. I think it's about as empty and as chimerical as can possibly be imagined. You are not going to get me to play your game by your rules, which I reject, you are just not. Keep trying if you like, but it ain't gonna happen.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

some guy said:


> When I listen to Messiaen's _Des Canyons aux Étoiles_ or Varèse's _Ionisation,_ I hear an expression of humanity.
> 
> When I listen to Henry's _Variations for a Door and a Sigh,_ I hear an expression of humanity.
> 
> People who belittle those works and others like them make me angry because they diminish the possibilities for what it means to be human into something impossibly narrow.


You've told us about your weaknesses: what about telling us about your strengths?


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

quack said:


> Exactly, you make it up and then you complain about it, stop making art you don't like.


If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it IS a duck.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> How do you think you´d have reacted to "Le Sacre du Printemps",
> if attending the premiere ?


He or she would probably have said/thought, "Oh my God; listen to the possibilities of using interesting tonality with complex rhythm. And love the sexy dancing!"


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

some guy said:


> Oh grasshopper. To have gone from one folly to a different folly, thinking that you've gone from folly to wisdom.
> 
> 'Tis sad.
> 
> And now you seem bent on forcing what you think you've learned about music onto everyone else. That's wisdom, grasshopper.


With respect, someguy, I think that's what YOU DO - forcing your opinion onto everybody else. And it isn't wisdom, it's conceit and arrogance.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

the only i can stand is silent hill soundtracks.

the combination of eerie disordered noise and the dark images worked well.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I think a video game is probably the most appropriate context for noise music.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> I think a video game is probably the most appropriate context for noise music.


Why? Cause video games are some lesser medium? (I don't think noise is inherently bad, so I wouldn't consider it degrading to a game to have a noisey musical score if it fits, but I know you think pretty lowly of noise music)

I have played games that have beautiful scores more in a noisey medium, like the musique concrete score for LIMBO, and the noisy scores for the Silent Hill games. One thing that's nice about most games though is that the music is actually well written enough that (unlike a disproportionate amount of film music) it works as music, and can fit into the game it was written for, as well as exist on its own, as should be the case with any music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Music that is purely atmospheric and without structure is easier to break up into random length sprites. I really like the work of Alan Splet in David Lynch's films. That is a very good context for and application of noise.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2012)

I loves my random length sprites. Not like those all the same length sprites. They're about as much fun as a gremlin.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Some listeners just lack discernment, even video games' sound effects can be "beautiful" in the context of music.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kopachris said:


> Stand under a busy metal bridge.


But that is not ORGANIZED sound - ergo, it really is just noise. Now, record it, manipulate, edit it, then it could be called 'music.'
Ditto for 'sounds of nature.' BTW.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2012)

You're forgetting that it's me standing under that bridge, you know.

Listening.

Ergo, it's organized sound.

Ditto for sounds of nature.

For anything--a piece of paper with black dots on it put there by Beethoven (well, initially), a length of magnetic tape with train sounds on it (cut up and reassembled even), a soundfile in ProTools, traffic on a metal bridge, sounds of nature--it all becomes music when someone listens to it. Say whatever you like about potential, it's the listening that does the alchemy.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

some guy said:


> You're forgetting that it's me standing under that bridge, you know.
> 
> Listening.
> 
> ...


You love listening to noise. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2012)

Thank you dear.

(The reason ad hominem is classified as a flaw in logic is because it substitutes a statement about a person for a response to what the person has said.)


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> You love listening to noise. Nothing more, nothing less.


And you love listening to bland old English noise.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> And you love listening to bland old English noise.


Your sense of humour was about as engaging as your pieces of music.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2012)

That is just about the rudest thing I've ever seen anyone say, which, if that's what you were going for, great job!

I know I would be more impressed with you if you were to actually engage in conversation about ideas rather than this facile tossing out of random insults.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Some listeners just lack discernment, even video games' sound effects can be "beautiful" in the context of music.


Some listeners lack any spirit of adventure or curiosity or imagination. Some are close-eared.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I wonder if you could construct a bridge that would ring like a bell when a city cars drove over it, chime when an SUV did and tolled mournfully when a truck drove across it. Most bridges I have known have been mercifully quiet, only the traffic makes a noise.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Some listeners lack any spirit of adventure or curiosity or imagination. Some are close-eared.


I have always suspected that being the case for yourself. Thanks for confirming.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Is this noise music, too? BurningDesire, what do you think?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Is this noise music, too? BurningDesire, what do you think?


Yes it is. It has a fair amount of charm to it too.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Noise huh?

Raison D'Etre - Metamorphyses Phase IV

https://www.box.com/s/v5squg8gjgbwhu2p1i68


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