# Is big necessarily beautiful? Chamber Orchestras



## Delicious Manager

I am relatively new in TC and I have noticed that, as nearly everywhere else, talk of orchestras tends to concentrate almost entirely on the big symphony orchestras. As someone who has managed three chamber orchestras in London in the past, I thought for my first-ever new thread, I would wave the flag for those often unsung heroes - the *chamber orchestras*.

Of course, the big orchestras are numerous and have all those large, sexy pieces of the Romantic and 20th-century repertoire to play. However, the chamber orchestras (usually ensembles ranging in size from a small 12-piece string group up to, say, a 45-piece orchestra suitable for playing Beethoven or Mendelssohn) can hold there own in music from the Baroque and Classical periods, as well as much of the string-orchestra repertoire up to the present day (the Tchaikovsky Serenade for Strings works VERY well with a 24-piece chamber-sized string orchestra, for example).

So, what are your favourite chamber orchestras and recordings they have made?


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## Danielghofrani

in fact I like chamber orchestras because they feel more intimate. the soundstage is easier to feel


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## World Violist

I love chamber orchestras, not only for the smaller pieces, but also sometimes for bigger works. There's a recording out recently on BIS of Thomas Dausgaard conducting the Bruckner 2nd (Scottish Chamber Orchestra, I think? Has about 40 players in it.). Some of my most favorite recordings are by John Eliot Gardiner's ensembles: his recently finished Brahms cycle (about 65 players in the ORR; not quite chamber dimensions, but much closer than the 100-or-so-strong Berliners) is sheer brilliance, and his Bach cantatas series is definitely a favorite of mine.

As for proper chamber orchestras, I've been fascinated by the idea and haven't heard enough of the actual orchestras themselves. One particular set of recordings I've been looking out for is Paavo Berglund's last Sibelius cycle, with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. One ensemble I've always deeply admired is Boulez's brainchild, the Ensemble InterContemporain.

And then there are chamber _operas,_ which have haunted me for years since my first hearing of Benjamin Britten's first church parable, "Curlew River."

Basically, anything that has "chamber orchestra" on it is going to get me rather interested... which is rather odd (or maybe strangely right) considering I was a longtime fan of the music of Gustav Mahler.


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## Aramis

I'm not fan of string orchestras. Somehow I can't find much of diversity and colorfullness in music written for this ensambles - if there have to be strings only, give me chamber ensamble with solo instruments and if there has to be tutti strings, let them be enforced by some other instruments. 

That said I can think of couple of string orchestra works that I quite enjoy.


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## Saturnus

I recently bought some recordings with the Swedish chamber orchestra on BIS, cond. by Thomas Dausgaard, including their take on Schubert's 'Great' symphony. Long story short, those are the best symphonic recordings I've heard ever.


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## Delicious Manager

> I love chamber orchestras, not only for the smaller pieces, but also sometimes for bigger works. There's a recording out recently on BIS of Thomas Dausgaard conducting the Bruckner 2nd (Scottish Chamber Orchestra, I think? Has about 40 players in it.).


I have heard about this recording (it was with the SWEDISH Chamber Orchestra) but haven't heard any more than the extracts on the Naxos website I would love to know why BIS chose to record this symphony with a small orchestra (no doubt the CD booklet notes would reveal this), especially as the version of the symphony presented is the frequently-recorded 1877 Nowak edition (rather than the 1873 original). Listening to the opening of each movement on the Naxos website, I was not particularly aware of a much leaner string sound.



> Some of my most favorite recordings are by John Eliot Gardiner's ensembles: his recently finished Brahms cycle (about 65 players in the ORR; not quite chamber dimensions, but much closer than the 100-or-so-strong Berliners) is sheer brilliance


I have Charles Mackerras's superb set of Brahms symphonies with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. This recording, as presumably does Gardiner's, reproduces the size of orchestra to that in 1870s/1880s Meiningen, which Brahms would have had in mind when writing his works. Also, as I consider Brahms a Classical composer born 50 years too late, this approach suits his music for me.



> One particular set of recordings I've been looking out for is Paavo Berglund's last Sibelius cycle, with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.


I have heard Berglund's COE set and it's wonderful. Sibelius wouldn't have a large orchestra at his disposal in Helsinki at the time he was writing so, again, this seems apt to me. Incidentally, Berglund's first set of Sibelius symphonies with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra was made partly while I was a fresh-out-of-university 'apprentice' manager there.


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## Aksel

Here in my town, we have a chamber chamber orchestra. It's called Bodø Sinfonietta, and it consists of 14 or so players. They mostly play newish works, but they have played some rather fetching versions of larger symphonic pieces, like Respighi's Botticelli Pictures and Mahler's Lied von der Erde and his fourth symphony. I find that a lot of large-scale pieces can be played just as well by smaller ensembles, especially pieces that are very chamber-musically written in the first place.


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## Delicious Manager

Aramis said:


> I'm not fan of string orchestras. Somehow I can't find much of diversity and colorfullness in music written for this ensambles - if there have to be strings only, give me chamber ensamble with solo instruments and if there has to be tutti strings, let them be enforced by some other instruments.
> 
> That said I can think of couple of string orchestra works that I quite enjoy.


I'm not just talking about STRING orchestras, but chamber orchestras with double woodwind, 2 (or 4) horns, 2 trumpets, timpani (perhaps a harp) and strings of around 24 players (8.6.4.4.2).


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## Delicious Manager

Aksel said:


> Here in my town, we have a chamber chamber orchestra. It's called Bodø Sinfonietta, and it consists of 14 or so players. They mostly play newish works, but they have played some rather fetching versions of larger symphonic pieces, like Respighi's Botticelli Pictures and Mahler's Lied von der Erde and his fourth symphony. I find that a lot of large-scale pieces can be played just as well by smaller ensembles, especially pieces that are very chamber-musically written in the first place.


The two Mahler pieces you mention were arranged for chamber ensemble by Erwin Stein (4th Symphony) and Arnold Schoenberg (_Das Lied von der Erde_) and work surprisingly well. Mahler's orchestration was often an example of chamber-music restraint.


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## Aksel

Delicious Manager said:


> The two Mahler pieces you mention were arranged for chamber ensemble by Erwin Stein (4th Symphony) and Arnold Schoenberg (_Das Lied von der Erde_) and work surprisingly well. Mahler's orchestration was often an example of chamber-music restraint.


I know that. I think Schoenberg also arranged the 4th symphony, but my memory might be serving me wrong.


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## Delicious Manager

Aksel said:


> I know that. I think Schoenberg also arranged the 4th symphony, but my memory might be serving me wrong.


No, Schoenberg never arranged the 4th Symphony - only the _Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen_ and _Das Lied von der Erde_.


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## Aksel

Delicious Manager said:


> No, Schoenberg never arranged the 4th Symphony - only the _Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen_ and _Das Lied von der Erde_.


Very well. I think I might not remember correctly from the program notes. But it was wonderful nevertheless.


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## Delicious Manager

Aksel said:


> Very well. I think I might not remember correctly from the program notes. But it was wonderful nevertheless.


You might be interested in this: http://www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/schoenberg/arrngmts.htm


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## Aksel

Delicious Manager said:


> You might be interested in this: http://www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/schoenberg/arrngmts.htm


That's interesting. But I think it might be another arrangement they played. There was only two violins, one piano and I don't remember the amount of percussionists. But the Fahrende Gesellen arrangement looks familiar. They played that one too not too long ago.


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## Sid James

I like going to chamber orchestra concerts because there is more to watch than just say a string quartet and less than a full sized symphony orchestra. Like one of the posters above, I find it easier to take in music played by a chamber orchestra. There are a number of chamber orchestras that perform regularly in Sydney - the Australian Chamber Orchestra, the Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra & the Lurline Chamber Orchestra. I've seen the first two but not the last one. I have particularly enjoyed their performances of things like Beethoven, Brahms and Schumann concertos and symphonies...


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## Vaneyes

Mahler CO has been very successful. I particularly like their Mahler 4 with Roschmann and Harding.

Bruno Walter was magical with smaller forces in his later years. Sony examples, Bruckner 9 and Beethoven 4 & 6.


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## jurianbai

I have good enjoying the period orchestra with harpsichord element. Somehow I prefer harpsichord crispy and dynamic sound among the strings. For modern CO, I've watched few concerts by chamber orchestra , playing Schuberts, Brahms and Bach.


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