# Mahler's symphonies



## mueske

Today I was in a record store, and went looking for a box with all of Mahler symphonies, I found one, but never heard of the conductor, so didn't buy it (yet) because I'd like to get some advice about it first. 

The conductor is Eliahu Inbal, don't remember which orchestra. Anyone familiar with his work, his Mahler, is it good, worth roughly 60 dollars?


----------



## World Violist

I'm not so familiar with Inbal, but I've heard good things about his Mahler.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

My memory is that when people discuss a selection for a Mahler cycle, Inbal/Frankfurt is not a cycle that is considered a top-level recommendation... and that judgement seems to be borne out by a perusal of my three major review texts.

Not long ago, we had a discussion about Mahler cycles (among others) in this thread. In frequency of citations, it broke down: 1. Bernstein 2. Tennstedt 3. Kubelik 4. Solti 5. Chailly 6. Bertini.


----------



## mueske

Problem is, I can't find a Bernstein cycle, and I don't like his sixth, my favourite Mahler symphony. Does Abbado have a cycle? Chailly does good things from what I've heard. It's just that I'm not fond of ordering stuff or bying stuff online, and I live in a rather small city, where finding decent recordings is rather hard. 

If anyone knows a trustworthy site, that serves Europe (Belgium in particular) please let me know, I might reconsider my opnion about bying online.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

mueske said:


> Problem is, I can't find a Bernstein cycle, and I don't like his sixth, my favourite Mahler symphony.


I don't blame you.


mueske said:


> Does Abbado have a cycle?


Yes- and he has his fans. His seventh, especially, is widely praised.

I am sympathetic to efforts to provide business to "bricks-and-mortar" outlets. Perhaps your local outlet can place a special order for you, if you remain reluctant regarding on-line sellers. Having said that, though, the only obstacles to on-line shopping are making sure that your computer has the appropriate security protections, and taking care to deal with a reputable seller.

Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Moldyoldie

I've only heard Inbal in the _Sixth_. I can tell you unequivocally that this performance is about as straightforward and no-nonsense as any Mahler symphony I've heard -- no fawning or groveling here! The martial rhythm which sets the stage is appropriately snappy and Inbal keeps the pace on a steady and even keel throughout. Though the Frankfort Radio Symphony Orchestra lacks the heft of the majors, all timbres are clearly delineated and the sound reproduction is crystal clear -- orchestral ensemble is exemplary. The explosive fortissimos, including the two massive hammerblows in the tragic finale and at the hair-raising final bars, are splendidly chilling! If it matters to you (conductors and musicologists debate about it and apparently Mahler was non-committal), the Scherzo movement is placed second followed by the Andante.

Though I've yet to hear them, Inbal's Mahler No. 1 and No. 7 received much critical praise on their release.

If this is the re-release on the Brilliant label that you're considering, know that it was originally released by Denon in the late '80s. If what I heard in the Sixth is exemplary of the entire cycle, then the digital recording is immediate, clean, and spectacular...certainly state-of-the-art at the time.


----------



## PostMinimalist

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Yes- and he has his fans. His seventh, especially, is widely praised.


With the Boston Symphony. Yes one of the great recordings!

Listen to this and then to the Naxos recording with Witt and the Krakow band. It's like listening to 2 different pieces!

Abbado!!
FC


----------



## SamGuss

I like this as a resource when researching who does Mahler well:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html


----------



## JTech82

mueske said:


> Today I was in a record store, and went looking for a box with all of Mahler symphonies, I found one, but never heard of the conductor, so didn't buy it (yet) because I'd like to get some advice about it first.
> 
> The conductor is Eliahu Inbal, don't remember which orchestra. Anyone familiar with his work, his Mahler, is it good, worth roughly 60 dollars?


No it wouldn't be worth $60, especially when you can buy sets with alot better conductors and orchestras. I haven't heard that set, which doesn't make it bad, but if it costs that much, I would put towards a set with a more well known conductor who is perhaps more versed in Mahler's language like Bernstein and the NYPO for example.


----------



## Rachovsky

SamGuss said:


> I like this as a resource when researching who does Mahler well:
> 
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html


Well hello Sam. Been preoccupied with reality lately? Glad to see your still here.


----------



## tahnak

*Inbal's Mahler*



mueske said:


> Today I was in a record store, and went looking for a box with all of Mahler symphonies, I found one, but never heard of the conductor, so didn't buy it (yet) because I'd like to get some advice about it first.
> 
> The conductor is Eliahu Inbal, don't remember which orchestra. Anyone familiar with his work, his Mahler, is it good, worth roughly 60 dollars?


The answer is No. Not for Sixty Dollars. You may wait or collect individually. If Bernstein's cycle on CBS is economical, that is recommended but his Deutche Grammophon would be quite high priced again. But Bernstein isa good entry to Mahler with either the New York Philharmonic or the Wiener Philharmoniker.


----------



## mueske

I think I'm going to pass on the box, and buy individual interpretation I like ie: Abbado's sixth, Bernstein's 7th and third,...

Thanks for the advice guys!


----------



## EarlyCuyler

Abbado's cycle that he is doing with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra on DVD is OUTSTANDING. Especially the 5th, and out of that the Finale. Best recording that I have ever heard. Well, its tied with the Mehta/NYPO recording of the 5th. IMHO, one of the 2 best recording ever made by the NYPO.


----------



## handlebar

I own the Inbal 2nd and 9th. Both are mediocre. Ok for beginners but not astounding.
The Abbado set is good with the 6th and 7th as highlights. 

I agree with Earlycuyler that the new Abbado DVD is wonderful!

I own 6 complete(almost for MTT and Boulez) sets with my top favourites being Boulez and Tilson Thomas followed by Bernstein,Tennstedt,Solti and Bertini. Some by Haitink are fine,especially the 3rd and 6th.

I think Abbado is under rated in his viewpoint and hope that he will continue to record Herr Mahler.
Same goes for Tilson Thomas. Another that was a bit over praised for presentation yet came out very well was Zander's collection. I admire his 2nd,4th and 6th.

Just a few observations.


Jim


----------



## World Violist

handlebar said:


> I own 6 complete(almost for MTT and Boulez) sets with my top favourites being Boulez and Tilson Thomas followed by Bernstein,Tennstedt,Solti and Bertini.


I started collecting the MTT cycle but I think I started with the wrong ones; although the 2nd is fine, I can't think it's quite the best (Ormandy, Tennstedt, et al). I also have his 3rd (pretty boring compared to Chailly and Bernstein I) and 7th (which I don't have any other recordings of beside Bernstein I and don't listen to much anyway).

I've heard good stuff about his 4th, 6th, and 9th... and I REALLY want to hear his 8th... thoughts?


----------



## handlebar

The 8th is the only one I don't own as it has not been released yet. I was not too impressed with Das klagende Lied or Symphony #1 and 5. But the rest were good with splendid sonics. I think this is one area where he does well as the SACD's which I own are brilliant and well worth the price.
I hope the 8th comes out soon but I'm not holding my breath.

If I had to pick one I liked the most for beauty it would be the 6th. The 4th is the best in the final movement as i found Laura Claycomb to be so very fine a voice.

I hope to see him live this next season.

Jim


----------



## SixFootScowl

So what Mahler symphony should I try next? I have heard 1, 5, and 7 and like all three very much. Which is the next one I should try?


----------



## chesapeake bay

Try the 6th, I like Tennstedt and the London Philharmonic


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Symphony 9 is very good. On the other hand if you want to go for a really long one you could go for symphony 3, which goes from 90 to 105 minutes. Tennnsetedt goes 98 minutes.


----------



## SixFootScowl

6, 9, 3, ... maybe i get out my randon number generator. :lol:

I only have Bernstein and an extra 5th conducted by Shipway (good one too). I poked my head into Dearborn Music today for about 5 minutes and see they have about 2 to 3 dozen used Mahler CD sets, mainly individual symphonies. Probably have full cycle in the new CDs section but I don't usually look at those as very pricey at full retail.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Leonard Bernstein, the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Christa Ludwig (contralto solo), the Viena State Opera Chorus and the Vienna Boys Choir playing the Symphony No. 3 of Gustav Mahler, at 1973.






This is very long, 1:45:36


----------



## SixFootScowl

I have heard three Mahler symphonies, all of them instrumental. It is time for a choral symphony. I see this nice list has several choral symphonies listed.

I think I will do #4 for soprano and orchestra for now.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Florestan said:


> I have heard three Mahler symphonies, all of them instrumental. It is time for a choral symphony. I see this nice list has several choral symphonies listed.


2,3,4 and 8 are choral. He wrote a high percentage of choral symphonies.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Johnnie Burgess said:


> 2,3,4 and 8 are choral. He wrote a high percentage of choral symphonies.


I am doing #3 so far half minute in and loving it!


----------



## Becca

Johnnie Burgess said:


> 2,3,4 and 8 are choral. He wrote a high percentage of choral symphonies.


#4 is not choral, it only has a single soloist in the last movement.


----------



## Becca

When you get to the 2nd (which I suggest next), it is interesting to pay attention to the timings for the various recordings. About 15 or so months ago I posted the timings for a bunch of them and the most intriguing thing about it was that the two conductors who knew and had worked with Mahler, i.e. Bruno Walter and Otto Klemperer, had the fastest versions of the 2nd, around 77-79 minutes. Others were spread from about 80 on up with (if I remember correctly) Bernstein being one of the slowest. Personally I would recommend the Klemperer. I should also note that despite my liking Simon Rattle, I find his recordings and performances of the 2nd to be annoyingly slow in the first movement.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I am doing #3 so far half minute in and loving it!


See....I can safely say: I told you.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Each one I burn a disk and play in the car so I am sure to hear it in fuller sound instead of my mono (combining channels) earbud. I just burned #3 to disks. I have heard #1, #3, #5, and Das Lied von der Erde. I decided my next one must be big on vocals, so what else but #8? Not today. But sometime in the next few days as I won't be able to hold off any longer.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Each one I burn a disk and play in the car so I am sure to hear it in fuller sound instead of my mono (combining channels) earbud. I just burned #3 to disks. I have heard #1, #3, #5, and Das Lied von der Erde. I decided my next one must be big on vocals, so what else but #8? Not today. But sometime in the next few days as I won't be able to hold off any longer.


No 8 is the only one with big vocals, you gonna love it, trust me .


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> No 8 is the only one with big vocals, you gonna love it, trust me .


I am confident that I am going to love all of Mahler's symphonies. They rank right up there with Beethoven's for me.


----------



## Marc

Becca said:


> When you get to the 2nd (which I suggest next), it is interesting to pay attention to the timings for the various recordings. About 15 or so months ago I posted the timings for a bunch of them and the most intriguing thing about it was that the two conductors who knew and had worked with Mahler, i.e. Bruno Walter and Otto Klemperer, had the fastest versions of the 2nd, around 77-79 minutes. Others were spread from about 80 on up with (if I remember correctly) Bernstein being one of the slowest. Personally I would recommend the Klemperer. I should also note that despite my liking Simon Rattle, I find his recordings and performances of the 2nd to be annoyingly slow in the first movement.


In no 2, I would recommend Ivan Fischer & his Budapest Festival Orchestra.
IMHO, an impressive combination of good playing and catching involvement.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Becca said:


> When you get to the 2nd (which I suggest next), it is interesting to pay attention to the timings for the various recordings. About 15 or so months ago I posted the timings for a bunch of them and the most intriguing thing about it was that the two conductors who knew and had worked with Mahler, i.e. Bruno Walter and Otto Klemperer, had the fastest versions of the 2nd, around 77-79 minutes. Others were spread from about 80 on up with (if I remember correctly) Bernstein being one of the slowest. Personally I would recommend the Klemperer. I should also note that despite my liking Simon Rattle, I find his recordings and performances of the 2nd to be annoyingly slow in the first movement.


Kubelik Symphony 2 takes 76:24.


----------



## bz3

Becca said:


> When you get to the 2nd (which I suggest next), it is interesting to pay attention to the timings for the various recordings. About 15 or so months ago I posted the timings for a bunch of them and the most intriguing thing about it was that the two conductors who knew and had worked with Mahler, i.e. Bruno Walter and Otto Klemperer, had the fastest versions of the 2nd, around 77-79 minutes. Others were spread from about 80 on up with (if I remember correctly) Bernstein being one of the slowest. Personally I would recommend the Klemperer. I should also note that despite my liking Simon Rattle, I find his recordings and performances of the 2nd to be annoyingly slow in the first movement.


Agreed, and I did not know that Klemperer and Walter stuck out so much with regards to pace. The Klemperer is virtually the only Mahler 2 I listen to because I think it's nearly perfect. Bernstein, who I enjoy in every other symphony, is just too ponderous. I listen to it sometimes but by the 5th movement I've often become overwhelmed - and to me, the 1st movement is best when it's taut rather than dramatic and sustained.

I also like the Kubelik and Gielen, and I don't think Boulez or MTT are too bad. I've heard the Mehta and didn't particularly like it so I never bought it, but it seems popular. I'm always on the look out for more Mahler 2 interpretations but I find myself often let down. I hope to soon buy a Tennstedt cycle or simply a few individual discs - perhaps a Resurrection.


----------



## Mahlerian

bz3 said:


> I also like the Kubelik and Gielen, and I don't think Boulez or MTT are too bad. I've heard the Mehta and didn't particularly like it so I never bought it, but it seems popular. I'm always on the look out for more Mahler 2 interpretations but I find myself often let down. I hope to soon buy a Tennstedt cycle or simply a few individual discs - perhaps a Resurrection.


For Mahler 2, Tennstedt's live recording is preferable to the studio one.


----------



## chesapeake bay

Mahlerian said:


> For Mahler 2, Tennstedt's live recording is preferable to the studio one.


Wow, this one is really good, amazing sound balance in a live recording. I'm usually with Becca tempo wise, but the pacing here is excellent.


----------



## Merl

I'm currently listening to the Bertini Mahler cycle and it's really impressive. Fischer's Mahler discs are currently getting heavy play.


----------



## Granate

I have been comparing *Bernstein* cycles for Sony and DG, and I would keep Sony because of the remasters and the conducting in the 60s. I have not listened to his Lieder yet. 
With *DG*, I think he beats older versions with the *1st, 8th, 9th and 10th*. The 3rd is equally good in both sets.
My next challenge for Bernstein's Mahlers will be Kubelik, but I am sick of listening insanely to Mahler for a month. I need to rest. 
Is Chailly's set only praised because of the sound quality?


----------



## Becca

I am convinced that there is no single conductor who has done all 10 symphonies and Das Lied with equal consistency, That is especially true considering that most cycles were recorded over a period of many years, even decades in some cases. I then wonder just what the point is of getting 'cycles', other than to plump the record company's bottom line.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Becca said:


> I am convinced that there is no single conductor who has done all 10 symphonies and Das Lied with equal consistency, That is especially true considering that most cycles were recorded over a period of many years, even decades in some cases. I then wonder just what the point is of getting 'cycles', other than to plump the record company's bottom line.


It is a great question. The reason to get a cycle is for the consistency of the same conductor? But in reality, one would likely experience many different conductors if one were going to see live concerts. So, instead of conductor cycles, maybe they should produce cycles that purportedly have the best performance or each symphony. Not sure there is such a set. The alternative is to get individual recordings, if one is able to sort them all out.

I don't suppose this set comes close to the best of each symphony but at least there is one out there with various performances/conductors:


----------



## Becca

Consider the Mahler works as three groups...

1 - Symphonies 1, 2, 3 & 4
2 - Symphonies 5, 6 & 7
3 - Symphonies 8, 9, 10 & Das Lied

Now, how many conductors who have done the complete cycle, have recorded a highly rated symphony from all three of these groups? Just to make it a bit more useful, if a conductor has done more than one Mahler cycle, *all* of the choices must be from a single cycle. I suspect that there will be very few amongst all the cycles which are out there. Personally I might pick two.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Becca said:


> Consider the Mahler works as three groups...
> 
> 1 - Symphonies 1, 2, 3 & 4
> 2 - Symphonies 5, 6 & 7
> 3 - Symphonies 8, 9, 10 & Das Lied
> 
> Now, how many conductors who have done the complete cycle, have recorded a highly rated symphony from all three of these groups? Just to make it a bit more useful, if a conductor has done more than one Mahler cycle, *all* of the choices must be from a single cycle. I suspect that there will be very few amongst all the cycles which are out there. Personally I might pick two.


From the reviews I have read, I am going to guess the best two cycles are Boulez and Tennstedt.


----------



## Guest

Florestan said:


> From the reviews I have read, I am going to guess the best two cycles are Boulez and Tennstedt.


Start reading other reviews !


----------



## Merl

Becca said:


> I suspect that there will be very few amongst all the cycles which are out there. Personally I might pick two.


I bet you say Kubelik and Bernstein (or Kubelik and Haitink)


----------



## bz3

Becca said:


> Consider the Mahler works as three groups...
> 
> 1 - Symphonies 1, 2, 3 & 4
> 2 - Symphonies 5, 6 & 7
> 3 - Symphonies 8, 9, 10 & Das Lied
> 
> Now, how many conductors who have done the complete cycle, have recorded a highly rated symphony from all three of these groups? Just to make it a bit more useful, if a conductor has done more than one Mahler cycle, *all* of the choices must be from a single cycle. I suspect that there will be very few amongst all the cycles which are out there. Personally I might pick two.


Interesting challenge! I would unhesitatingly say Boulez and Kubelik. Maybe the DG Bernstein cycle. Maybe Rattle or Gielen's (2+5+10 and 3+6+9 for me) but those are likely very debatable. I find interesting things with all the Mahler cycles I own, but Haitink is the one I listen to (by far) the least and some say he's the most consistent in vision.


----------



## realdealblues

Becca said:


> Consider the Mahler works as three groups...
> 
> 1 - Symphonies 1, 2, 3 & 4
> 2 - Symphonies 5, 6 & 7
> 3 - Symphonies 8, 9, 10 & Das Lied
> 
> Now, how many conductors who have done the complete cycle, have recorded a highly rated symphony from all three of these groups? Just to make it a bit more useful, if a conductor has done more than one Mahler cycle, *all* of the choices must be from a single cycle. I suspect that there will be very few amongst all the cycles which are out there. Personally I might pick two.


Bernstein's Sony Cycle is excellent throughout with the exception of the timpanist getting lost in the 5th. His recording of the 3rd from the first group is to me the best ever put on disc! His recording of the 7th from the second group is also for me the best ever put on disc, and his recording of the 9th from the 3rd group is among the best ever recorded. Many reviewers and critics will back up those recordings.

Bernstein's DG Cycle is excellent throughout with the exception of the odd choice of a boy soprano in the 4th. The recording of the 1st is often cited as one of the best. The recordings of the 5th and 6th are often cited as two of the best ever as well as his recording of the 9th from your third group.

Depending on where you want to throw in Bernstein's Decca recording of Das Lied Von Der Erde which again is highly praised and also my favorite recording of the work but you could add that one into the mix.

Bertini, Kubelik, Gielen are all excellent across the spectrum. Solti, Chailly, Haitink and Tennstedt aren't perfect but all have recorded at least one highly rated symphony from all three of your groups.

I have well over 20,000 CD's in my Classical music collection and with the exception of Beethoven's symphonies, I have more Mahler symphony recordings than I do of anyone else and while I love having the variety, if a friend only wanted to have one excellent cycle to spend their life enjoying, I would not feel bad for them if they only had one of the Bernstein cycles or Bertini or Kubelik or Gielen or even Solti or Chailly. None of them are terrible, you might not get the full Mahler experience that different conductors bring out, the emotion of Bernstein, the drive of Solti, etc. but you would get very good performances none the less and at least be able to enjoy Mahler's music.


----------



## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> ...
> *I have well over 20,000 CD's in my Classical music collection* and with the exception of Beethoven's symphonies, I have more Mahler symphony recordings than I do of anyone else and while I love having the variety, if a friend only wanted to have one excellent cycle to spend their life enjoying, I would not feel bad for them if they only had one of the Bernstein cycles or Bertini or Kubelik or Gielen or even Solti or Chailly. None of them are terrible, you might not get the full Mahler experience that different conductors bring out, the emotion of Bernstein, the drive of Solti, etc. but you would get very good performances none the less and at least be able to enjoy Mahler's music.


Wow, my head is spinning under the weight of 20,000+ CDs and how in the world do you store them? Do you have all backed up electronically? It is nice to see that Beethoven and Mahler top your list.


----------



## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> Wow, my head is spinning under the weight of 20,000+ CDs and how in the world do you store them? Do you have all backed up electronically? It is nice to see that Beethoven and Mahler top your list.


I don't have all of them backed up electronically. When I want to hear something I usually rip it or when I buy something new I will rip it. I moved back in December so a lot of them are still in boxes in my basement. I have a bunch of bookshelves and I have a bunch out on those right now just to get rid of some of the boxes but they are in absolutely no order. Eventually I plan to take and build shelves into the basement walls from floor to ceiling and have that space for my collection.


----------



## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> I don't have all of them backed up electronically. When I want to hear something I usually rip it or when I buy something new I will rip it. I moved back in December so a lot of them are still in boxes in my basement. I have a bunch of bookshelves and I have a bunch out on those right now just to get rid of some of the boxes but they are in absolutely no order. Eventually I plan to take and build shelves into the basement walls from floor to ceiling and have that space for my collection.


I have this dread of a flooded basement ruining all my collection. I would be inclined to keep them higher up. Actually, you should build a nuclear bomb proof bunker with total self contained life support and get a Gilligan's Island generator exercise bicycle to power your CD player--just in case, you know. 

By the way, after Beethoven and Mahler, who is next biggest represented in your collection?


----------



## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> I have this dread of a flooded basement ruining all my collection. I would be inclined to keep them higher up. Actually, you should build a nuclear bomb proof bunker with total self contained life support and get a Gilligan's Island generator exercise bicycle to power your CD player--just in case, you know.
> 
> By the way, after Beethoven and Mahler, who is next biggest represented in your collection?


I did have an issue with flooding in there when I moved in. There were no downspouts so all the water ran next to the foundation and water ran in through several cracks and it did ruin several boxes of CD's sadly. I have sealed all the cracks with Drylock and then used a Drylock paint that is supposed to seal and keep out up to like 35psi worth of pressure and of course added downspouts and we've had some really hard rains with no signs of water since. I also plan to do this on the side of the house were there are no water pipes so if one does burst it should all run into the sump pump and be pumped out which is thankfully on the side of the house where the pipes are. The house is pretty much all PVC pipe so leaking shouldn't be a big issue and if the worst case scenario happens, well I guess that's why we have good homeowners insurance.

Mozart and then Bach and then Brahms and then Tchaikovsky are my next biggest collections. Add Schubert, Dvorak, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Liszt, Schumann, Haydn, Wagner, Debussy, Ravel, Shostakovich, Vivaldi, and you have most of my collection. Most of my collection is dominated by the big names and famous works honestly. I have a bunch of stuff I'm going to sell off though too because I have a bunch of duplicates.

I admit I'm classical mainstream for the most part and that's fine with me because I know what I enjoy. I still try new composers all the time. I will be the first one to admit I don't know anything about any of the modern composers for the most part. I struggled with a lot of Prokofiev and Bartok until the last couple years. I'm still trying to get into Schoenberg, Webern and Berg more. Some works I latch onto immediately, others I have tried for years to get into but still just sound like noise to me.

There are lots of somewhat lesser known composers I really like such as Joly Braga Santos or Havergal Brian and I have pretty much every recording available of their works, but there's really not a lot out there. I have tons of stuff I haven't heard yet as well. Just the nature of the beast.

Anyway, I tend to study the works I really love and listen to different recordings of them over and over and occasionally inject something new into my listening. I'd say on average I would guess my listening is about 6 to 1. Half a dozen works I am familiar with to every one I am either less familiar or completely unfamiliar with, but Mahler, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach & Brahms are the most dominant for me although it goes in spurts. Lately I've listened to a lot of French stuff even though I don't post half of it...lol.


----------



## SixFootScowl

^
Thanks for posting all the details of your collection. I think my approach is similar to yours though you are much farther along in the collection and diversity of listening.

Don't forget besides water through the foundation, sewers sometimes back up. In Detroit a couple years ago we had a really nasty one where people had floor drains blowing sewage water up into the basement like a fire hose. Expressways were under 17 feet of water in some low spots.


----------



## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> ^
> Thanks for posting all the details of your collection. I think my approach is similar to yours though you are much farther along in the collection and diversity of listening.
> 
> Don't forget besides water through the foundation, sewers sometimes back up. In Detroit a couple years ago we had a really nasty one where people had floor drains blowing sewage water up into the basement like a fire hose. Expressways were under 17 feet of water in some low spots.


Yuck! No floor drains in my place, just a large pipe straight out to the street. The town I moved too is only about 1,500 people and they have a newer system with 4 inch pipe out under the road so I'm hopeful we won't have anything like that ever happen here.


----------



## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> Yuck! No floor drains in my place, just a large pipe straight out to the street. The town I moved too is only about 1,500 people and they have a newer system with 4 inch pipe out under the road so I'm hopeful we won't have anything like that ever happen here.


Yeah. I just get carried away sometimes imagining disaster scenarios. I am the tell people "don't run with scissors" type.


----------



## LarryShone

I only have his 7th. Laziness I suppose, it came as a cover disk on BBCMusic mag years ago. I like it. But what next? Where do I go next symphony wise? Bear in mind I cant stomach operatic singing and I know many of his symphonies feature soloists.


----------



## SixFootScowl

LarryShone said:


> I only have his 7th. Laziness I suppose, it came as a cover disk on BBCMusic mag years ago. I like it. But what next? Where do I go next symphony wise? Bear in mind I cant stomach operatic singing and I know many of his symphonies feature soloists.


How about symphonies 1 and 5? Neither have singing and both are very good.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> I only have his 7th. Laziness I suppose, it came as a cover disk on BBCMusic mag years ago. I like it. But what next? Where do I go next symphony wise? Bear in mind I cant stomach operatic singing and I know many of his symphonies feature soloists.


You should try his 5, 6 and 9th symphonies. Try this thread to find Symphony 5 recommendtions.

http://www.talkclassical.com/44835-mahler-5-recommendtions-compliment.html


----------



## LarryShone

Johnnie Burgess said:


> You should try his 5, 6 and 9th symphonies. Try this thread to find Symphony 5 recommendtions.
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/44835-mahler-5-recommendtions-compliment.html


I find such threads confuse me. I have no idea what conductor is best at what performance. I find one and buy it. I havent tried different versions of a certain recording, I don't have the money, or the time, to do that! It doesnt help that my local music shop is ridiculously limited classical wise!


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> I find such threads confuse me. I have no idea what conductor is best at what performance. I find one and buy it. I havent tried different versions of a certain recording, I don't have the money, or the time, to do that! It doesnt help that my local music shop is ridiculously limited classical wise!


This thread people are picking what they consider a great performance. All of the ones I have seen on there is great. You can not go wrong by picking one of them.

Mahler Symphony has been performed a lot. So yes there are a lot to pick from.

Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C-Sharp Minor
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002X9W5DG/ref=dm_ty_trk</a>

Mahler: Symphony No.5
Sir John Barbirolli

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin:625150011

Both are great.


----------



## LarryShone

Thanks for those. Classical music is a funny old world. Mention Karajan and get booed. But I have him on a disk of Rachmaninov pf cncs and love it!


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> Thanks for those. Classical music is a funny old world. Mention Karajan and get booed. But I have him on a disk of Rachmaninov pf cncs and love it!


I have on Beethoven, his 1962 set and Brahms and a few other things. I like him. He might not have been a good person but was a good conductor.


----------



## LarryShone

Oh you know I need to stop posting on here. The Mahler symphony I have is n°5! I recognised it immediately from the Amazon link.
I'm an idiot.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Johnnie Burgess said:


> This thread people are picking what they consider a great performance. All of the ones I have seen on there is great. You can not go wrong by picking one of them.
> 
> Mahler Symphony has been performed a lot. So yes there are a lot to pick from.
> 
> Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C-Sharp Minor
> Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002X9W5DG/ref=dm_ty_trk</a>
> 
> Mahler: Symphony No.5
> Sir John Barbirolli
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin:625150011
> 
> Both are great.


Both Orchestra's are British.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> Oh you know I need to stop posting on here. The Mahler symphony I have is n°5! I recognised it immediately from the Amazon link.
> I'm an idiot.


Which do you have?

I have 7 versions.


----------



## SixFootScowl

LarryShone said:


> I find such threads confuse me. I have no idea what conductor is best at what performance. I find one and buy it. I havent tried different versions of a certain recording, I don't have the money, or the time, to do that! It doesnt help that my local music shop is ridiculously limited classical wise!


I often will look at Amazon reviews (with a grain of salt of course) and then listen to clips from various performances, then buy one that may work out wonderfully or sometimes not. My local music shop is also limited though they do have a couple dozen or more in used in the Mahler section that I need to get over to and browse. But I am pretty happy with my Bernstein 1960s Mahler cycle, though I did find a better 8th.


----------



## LarryShone

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Which do you have?
> 
> I have 7 versions.


It came free with BBC Music magazine back in the 90s


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> It came free with BBC Music magazine back in the 90s


BBC Magazine puts good music on cd with their magazine.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Florestan said:


> I often will look at Amazon reviews (with a grain of salt of course) and then listen to clips from various performances, then buy one that may work out wonderfully or sometimes not. My local music shop is also limited though they do have a couple dozen or more in used in the Mahler section that I need to get over to and browse. But I am pretty happy with my Bernstein 1960s Mahler cycle, though I did find a better 8th.


Well I would also look at other reviews. If more than 1 source says a recording is good I believe I can trust that.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Well I would also look at other reviews. If more than 1 source says a recording is good I believe I can trust that.


Oh, I forgot to mention, I do google for reviews outside Amazon after I find one I think I might want, especially if it is expensive. For some reason, with Mahler I started looking at other reviews before focusing on a particular recording, perhaps because I just wasn't getting one to click into place, and that was how I found the 1995 Colorado Mahlerfest 8th.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Florestan said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention, I do google for reviews outside Amazon after I find one I think I might want, especially if it is expensive. For some reason, with Mahler I started looking at other reviews before focusing on a particular recording, perhaps because I just wasn't getting one to click into place, and that was how I found the 1995 Colorado Mahlerfest 8th.


Tony Duggan was a very good reviewer of the recordings of Mahler symphonies. He gives the 1995 Colorado recordings high marks.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Tony Duggan was a very good reviewer of the recordings of Mahler symphonies. He gives the 1995 Colorado recordings high marks.


Yes, that is where I saw the good review of it and decided to give it a try. I figured what better than to hear Mahler performed by a bunch of folks who are so Mahler crazy that they meet in Colorado every year over it. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing that but my wife is not into Mahler or any other music for that matter.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Florestan said:


> Yes, that is where I saw the good review of it and decided to give it a try. I figured what better than to hear Mahler performed by a bunch of folks who are so Mahler crazy that they meet in Colorado every year over it. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing that but my wife is not into Mahler or any other music for that matter.


That is too bad. What does she like?


----------



## LarryShone

Johnnie Burgess said:


> BBC Magazine puts good music on cd with their magazine.


Yea thats the prime reason I buy the magazine. Only trouble is of late there are a lot of live performances complete with coughing which isnt too bad. But worse is applause at the end. Just what you need when chilling out with some good music-rousing applause


----------



## LarryShone

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Well I would also look at other reviews. If more than 1 source says a recording is good I believe I can trust that.


I take people's reviews with a huge pinch of salt. Music and art is very subjective. One might hate Solti on a certain piece, someone else might favour him. Personally I probably couldn't tell one from another


----------



## Becca

If you want to sample recordings to see what you like, then subscribe to the Spotify, the internet music service, as it is very cheap (even free if you can tolerate the ads) and there is a surprisingly wide selection.


----------



## LarryShone

I do have Spotify on my phone. But i dont often get chance to buy CDs and when I do I tend to go with whats available. Having said that I did search earnestly for a good interpretation of Smetana's Ma Vlast. That was in pre internet times. A lot of trawling and it took a while.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> Yea thats the prime reason I buy the magazine. Only trouble is of late there are a lot of live performances complete with coughing which isnt too bad. But worse is applause at the end. Just what you need when chilling out with some good music-rousing applause


It seems like they liked recording a lot of stuff when the weather was cold and it was flu season.


----------



## Marc

LarryShone said:


> Thanks for those. Classical music is a funny old world. Mention Karajan and get booed. But I have him on a disk of Rachmaninov pf cncs and love it!


Your own ears are still the best judge.
Still, over the years, I myself discovered that some (at first) good recordings are 'less' good when you listen to other recordings. In the beginning I didn't have the money, so I went to the library to check out other performances. Now, decades later, I still do that. Very old-fashioned, I know, but... I'm very happy with it.



Johnnie Burgess said:


> I have on Beethoven, his 1962 set and Brahms and a few other things. I like him. He might not have been a good person but was a good conductor.


I'm not sure if many people who don't like Karajan are basing their 'dislike' on the man's personality. Personally, I don't feel the need to boo him because of that. Who am I to judge? I never met the guy.

My 'problem' is that I find Karajan a conductor who's approaching all kinds of music from various periods with the same (roughly said) intentions and esthetic ideas. Which makes his Bach sound more or less the same as his, say, Richard Strauss or Rachmaninov. Whilst realizing that I'm generalizing here, it's just that I find his recordings less interesting than those of many other conductors and musicians. 
But if one happens to like Karajan's Karajan-esque  approach, than one should buy as many Karajans as possible. Even I have got some of his stuff. I enjoy his recordings of f.i. Puccini's _Madama Butterfly_ and Wagner's _Parsifal_. But since I'm mostly a 17th/18th century guy, I must admit that it's been a long time since I last listened to them.

My 'favourite' Karajan/Mahler disc is _Das Lied von der Erde_ with Christa Ludwig and René Kollo. The other Lieder-cycli with Ludwig are also very worthwhile. Karajan loved singers and the human voice, and it shows.


----------



## Vaneyes

Marc said:


> *Your own ears are still the best judge.*
> Still, over the years, I myself discovered that some (at first) good recordings are 'less' good when you listen to other recordings. In the beginning I didn't have the money, so I went to the library to check out other performances. Now, decades later, I still do that. Very old-fashioned, I know, but... I'm very happy with it.
> 
> I'm not sure if many people who don't like Karajan are basing their 'dislike' on the man's personality. Personally, I don't feel the need to boo him because of that. Who am I to judge? I never met the guy.
> 
> My 'problem' is that I find Karajan a conductor who's approaching all kinds of music from various periods with the same (roughly said) intentions and esthetic ideas. Which makes his Bach sound more or less the same as his, say, Richard Strauss or Rachmaninov. Whilst realizing that I'm generalizing here, it's just that I find his recordings less interesting than those of many other conductors and musicians.
> But if one happens to like Karajan's *Karajan-esque  approach*, than one should buy as many Karajans as possible. Even I have got some of his stuff. I enjoy his recordings of f.i. Puccini's _Madama Butterfly_ and Wagner's _Parsifal_. But since I'm mostly a 17th/18th century guy, I must admit that it's been a long time since I last listened to them.
> 
> My 'favourite' Karajan/Mahler disc is _Das Lied von der Erde_ with Christa Ludwig and René Kollo. The other Lieder-cycli with Ludwig are also very worthwhile. Karajan loved singers and the human voice, and it shows.


Not that Karajanesque thing again.


----------



## Vaneyes

realdealblues said:


> Yuck! No floor drains in my place, just a large pipe straight out to the street. The town I moved too is only about 1,500 people and they have a newer system with 4 inch pipe out under the road so I'm hopeful we won't have anything like that ever happen here.


Some advancement, I'd say, since chucking it out the windows.


----------



## Vaneyes

Granate said:


> I have been comparing *Bernstein* cycles for Sony and DG, and I would keep Sony because of the remasters and the conducting in the 60s. I have not listened to his Lieder yet.
> With *DG*, I think he beats older versions with the *1st, 8th, 9th and 10th*. The 3rd is equally good in both sets.
> My next challenge for Bernstein's Mahlers will be Kubelik, but I am sick of listening insanely to Mahler for a month. I need to rest.
> Is Chailly's set only praised because of the sound quality?


Mahler burn-out has been known to happen. I see as of today, you've reached the finale of. Or did I mis-read?

AFAIC Chailly's sound is the best thing he's got going for his cycle, but I could say that for MTT and a lot of others. Through the 90's and beyond, everyone it seemed got the Mahler urge. A collapsed recording industry had little effect.

FWIW I like No. 5 in LB's DG set, and that's about it. The fire present in the Sony years was extinguished for the most part. A more relaxed (less threatening) pace with better sound lures more than a few. Cheers. :tiphat:


----------



## Granate

Vaneyes said:


> Mahler burn-out has been known to happen. I see as of today, you've reached the finale of. Or did I mis-read?


As you have been seeing in Current Listening, you misread. 

Or am I misreading your mis-read? You mean I reached the finale of Mahler only with Bernstein or I reached the finale of the Mahler-burn out by listening to even more Mahler?

Boom.


----------

