# Haydn Symphonies where to start?



## whispering (Oct 26, 2013)

Hello

I have recordings of most of Haydn’s string quartets and thoroughly enjoy them. 

I have looked in amazement at the sheer number of symphonies created by this composer. My simple question is where do you start to introduce yourself into such a large number of works?

Would it be best to buy a box set of the complete works, or groups of the symphonies eg the London symphonies.

I note many of these works have individual names, which previously I read meant they were popular? That is they have some type of story attached to them. 

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thank you.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

whispering said:


> Would it be best to buy a box set of the complete works, or groups of the symphonies eg the London symphonies.


I would first try a few on YouTube to see whether you like them sufficiently to follow up in depth. If you do, a complete box is usually better value for money. You also need to decide whether you want HIP (historically informed performance) or regular performance.

Suggestions to sample:

7 Le Midi (link)
22 Philosopher (link)
55 Schoolmaster (link)
82 Bear (link)
104 London (link)



> I note many of these works have individual names, which previously I read meant they were popular? That is they have some type of story attached to them.


The eternal conunudrum: are they popular because they are named, or are they named because they are popular?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Try a set of symphonies- Paris, London for starters...
Bernstein and Szell are terrific recordings
..you'll get lots of the popular ones that way


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I have video walkthroughs of 24 symphonies by Haydn and Mozart that you can listen to here for free:

http://somethingclassical.blogspot.com


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Olias said:


> I have video walkthroughs of 24 symphonies by Haydn and Mozart that you can listen to here for free:
> 
> http://somethingclassical.blogspot.com


Those are yours? Excellent!

I'd echo the advice to not go straight for a full set, I reckon that would be overwhelming. Do think about a set of the London Symphonies, or the Paris ones, but do not neglect looking into lower numbers. 6 to 8 are superb, 26 is a personal favourite.

If it's got a nickname, it's guaranteed to be great, but if it's doesn't have one, it's guaranteed to be great. 88 and 102 are name-free, and among the very best Symphonies by anyone.

Enjoy!


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I always recommend starting at the beginning - symphony no. 1 and upward! That's the best way to understand the composer's development.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I prefer the Haydn of the Sturm und Drang period. It's those symphonies in the middle where he was exploring and experimenting that produced some energetic, potent and enjoyable music. This set is relatively cheap and extremely rewarding:


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> I would first try a few on YouTube to see whether you like them sufficiently to follow up in depth


I agree with Art Rock's sound advice.

Here are some of my suggestions:

Symphony no. 6 in D major (Le matin)
Symphony no. 31 in D major (Hornsignal)
Symphony no. 38 in C major (Echo)
Symphony no. 88 in G major
Symphony no. 92 in G major (Oxford)


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Another approach is to start with his London symphonies (93-104), which are collectively probably his best set. Also include 88 and 82.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I have numbers in my notebook from 1 - 107. Each time I buy a symphony set, cross the numbers out so will know which ones I have. Hoping to have them all eventually. 

Never listen to his symphonies as often as I should do but love his cello concertos!


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

I honestly started quite casually, looking at the youtube videos which had more views, which is arguably the wrong approach ahah but the symphony I chose was pretty beautiful and pleasant indeed:






There are surely better works but this is were I started. I'd also suggest you to look at Michael Haydn as well, his very underrated brother:






(You can look at hammeredklavier's posts for better info on him).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Amadea said:


> Michael Haydn (You can look at hammeredklavier's posts for better info on him).


https://www.talkclassical.com/70979-haydn-mozarts-symphonies-2.html#post2068406
https://www.talkclassical.com/70979-haydn-mozarts-symphonies-4.html#post2068817

As for J. Haydn symphonies, I think the slow movements of the 49th, 80th, 96th are decent. The 80th in particular. -a movement where he doesn't do his trademark (attention-seeking) "surprises", but actually tries to express "serenity", like the slow movement of his 1st cello concerto. 
But of course, he doesn't reach the level of Mozart's 34th.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I would definitely start with the best.
The London and Paris symphonies.
Leonard Bernstein did both sets wonderfully.
But whomever you get start there.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Last year I listened to the whole lot of them over a couple of weeks. I found the ones between 40 and 70 the most interesting that time around.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Itullian said:


> I would definitely start with the best.
> The London and Paris symphonies.
> Leonard Bernstein did both sets wonderfully.
> But whomever you get start there.


Yes, the London Symphonies were my next listen. After that, if I were the OP, I'd listen to Beethoven again to perceive the influences.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

What about some late ones? Like #88, 92, 94, 101, 104


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> I prefer the Haydn of the Sturm und Drang period. It's those symphonies in the middle where he was exploring and experimenting that produced some energetic, potent and enjoyable music. This set is relatively cheap and extremely rewarding:
> View attachment 154988


Yes. That collection (plus the Solti disc of 93 and 99) were what got me into Haydn's symphonies.

I didn't warm so much (initially) to the Paris symphonies (where my original exposure was via Kuijken), and I didn't like the London symphonies so much apart from the Solti pair I mentioned above (and where Davis was my original set). At risk of kicking a hornet's nest, I like the Karajan versions of the Paris and London symphonies.

I then got the Fischer complete set, and listened to them in the order suggested by the amusing ClassicFM article, not listening to anything else until I finished. It was a great experience,

https://www.classicfm.com/composers/haydn/guides/definitive-ranking-haydn-symphonies/

I can't say I agreed particularly with his order, but it provided a mechanism for selecting the next one, and was quite amusing.

I still have a real fondness for number 93.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Amadea said:


> (You can look at hammeredklavier's posts for better info on him).


And then some!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

First, you should probably decide whether you have a preference for modern instrument or period instrument performances in Haydn (& Mozart?). Do you know which you preferred in Haydn's string quartets? Did you listen to both, or just one? Or, did you like both? (Personally, I don't have much interest in Haydn that sounds like Brahms, because it isn't Brahms. The late romantic style didn't exist in the classical era, & therefore, that's not how Haydn would have expected to hear his symphonies. In fact, Haydn wouldn't have even recognized a late romantic style in his symphonies. Although to be fair to Brahms, he didn't like a heavily romantic German style in his symphonies, either, according to Pierre Monteux, but instead wanted them played in a more classical style)

Secondly, I would first steer you towards those conductors that are well regarded for their Haydn, and suggest that you sample enough of their recordings on You Tube or Spotify or wherever--for free, in order to decide which conductors & orchestras you are most especially drawn to. Sound quality may also be an important factor in your decision.

When I first began to collect classical music recordings, I asked a composer friend of mine about which conductors he would most recommend in Haydn? He was known to have an extensive LP and later CD collection, and musicians and friends alike would often ask him for advice about recordings (including me). I remember one musician that swore he always recommended the "best" recordings. & his reasons for choosing one recording over another were always fascinating and very well informed, being that he was also a highly respected teacher of composition.

But it was the mid-1980s--around '84, and on the period instrument front, not even Christopher Hogwood had yet recorded much Haydn. If I remember right, Hogwood had only done Haydn's Symphonies 100 & 104 and 94 "Surprise" & 96 "Miracle" at the time (both terrific records by the way). So, my friend wasn't in a position to strongly recommend a period Haydn conductor at that time. Which I know he would have done, had it been 10 years later, because he had already recommended Hogwood and Pinnock to me in Baroque music, as well as Hogwood & The Academy of Ancient Music in Mozart's Symphonies.

This is what he told me: He recommended two conductors for Haydn--Sir Colin Davis, who was at the time recording a series of Haydn Symphony recordings with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam for Philips, and Leonard Bernstein, who he said was an erratic conductor--either very good, or very bad, but at his best in Haydn. I also recall asking my friend if he would recommend George Szell's Haydn? because I had seen Szell's set of "Paris" Symphonies in a record store & was curious about it. He said no. & when I asked him why?, he told me that Szell's conducting was too "stiff" for Haydn. Which is something that many years later, I came to strongly agree with him on. Szell's Haydn conducting is stiff (especially when heard next to Bernstein & Davis).

So, I bought the Davis and Bernstein Haydn recordings (which complimented each other perfectly), and was very happy with them until I came to become more of a period instrument fan: first via Christopher Hogwood's recordings of Mozart's Symphonies with the Academy of Ancient Music, and then via some of Hogwood's first Haydn recordings--such as Symphonies Nos. 100 & 104 and Nos. 94 & 96. From there, I then bought some of Sigiswald Kuijken's Haydn recordings with La Petite Bande, which I liked. Then later on, I bought Frans Bruggen's Haydn recordings with the Orchestra of the 18th Century, which I probably liked the best of all. Yet, I would also agree that Trevor Pinnock's recordings of the Sturm und Drang Symphonies are good, too, as is Nicholas McGegan's Haydn with the Philharmonia Baroque and more recently with Capella Savaria.

So this is what I'd suggest that you sample from and draw comparisons between:

I. On period instruments:

--Christopher Hogwood, Academy of Ancient Music, Nos. 100 & 104:








Nos. 96 "Miracle" (a recording that won a rosette from the old Penquin Guide, & deservedly so, IMO):
















& Hogwood's not quite complete cycle: 




--Sigiswald Kuijken, La Petite Bande & the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, in the "Paris" & "London" Symphonies:









--Trevor Pinnock, The English Concert, the "Sturm und Drang" Symphonies: 
No. 38: 



No. 42: 



No. 45 "Farewell": 



ETC.

--Frans Bruggen, Orchestra of the 18th Century, "Sturm und drang", "Paris", & "London" Symphonies: 












-Nicholas McGegan, Philharmonia Baroque, & Cappella Savaria:
Philharmonia Baroque nos. 57, 67, 68: 



& nos. 88, 101, & 104:
















Cappella Savaria nos. 79, 80, 81: 




You might want to also consider Ton Koopman's Haydn with the Amsterdam Baroque Soloists, and Bruno Weil's Haydn recordings with both Tafelmusik and on hybrid SACD, with Cappella Coloniensis (which has audiophile sound):
.
--Bruno Weil, Tafelmusik:



--Bruno Weil, Cappella Coloniensis: 




II. On modern instruments,

--Sir Colin Davis, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam--the "London" Symphonies (I don't know Davis's later Haydn recordings of the same with the LSO enough to recommend them, but they may be very good...?):
No. 88: 



No. 96 (LP): 



No. 99 (LP): 



Nos. 94-96 (CD): 



Nos. 100-104: 




--Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic, the "Paris" and "London" Symphonies:
Nos. 82-88, 93-95: 



No. 102 (this is a fantastic performance!):
















No. 104: 




You might want to also consider Nikolaus Harnocourt's Haydn recordings with the Concertgeobouw Orchestra, as well as Adam Fischer's complete symphony cycle with the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra.

Of course, I'm not saying that you have to listen to every single symphony by these conductors--unless you want to, but just enough to begin to get a sense of who you like best.

And then take it from there, & possibly purchase a box set at that point, or perhaps buy a variety of individual recordings.

P.S. I also wanted to mention two more modern instrument recordings of one of my favorite earlier Haydn symphonies, his No. 49 "La Passione":

--Orchestra of St. John's Square, London, conducted by John Lubbock: 



--Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, conducted by Sir Neville Marriner (a recording that won a rosette award from the old Penquin Guide):



(--New York Philharmonic, live, conducted by Leonard Bernstein: 



)

Finally, I'd also recommend Gunther Herbig's Haydn with the Dresdner Philharmonie, etc., as an excellent discount buy (if memory serves it is very inexpensive to buy in a box set, where you get all of the London Symphonies for just $7.99 USD, presently, & with free shipping if you have Amazon prime--see link below, but sample them first):





.
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...s=gunther+herbig+haydn&qid=1620641841&sr=8-26


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

12 years ago was the Haydn anniversary. I had loved his music before (and probably listened to most symphonies at some stage as I had bought the Fischer box in the early 2000s or so) but back then I listened to all the symphonies somewhat systematically. I tried this as a project at a forum (but this was never finished because the forum basically split due to quarrels unrelated to Haydn). Not to get bogged down by early works the plan was to start with 1 and 104, then 2 and 103 etc. and continue like this with 2 symphonies per week.
In the age of streaming I hesitate to recommend a whole cycle on disc as one can probably close gaps by streaming or download more easily.

Of course, the traditional numbering has a lot of errors but this is probably left for later.

There is nothing wrong in starting with some named pieces although many of my favorites have no nicknames and the nicknames sometimes tend to highlight rather trivial aspects of the pieces.
The last ones are the most popular but some people prefer the "Sturm and Drang" composed around 1770. The Pinnock box shown above is very good and I'd recommend it as well but maybe a bit much for the start (unless very cheap).

Good single discs for a start (or listen to the pieces at online sources)

6/7/8 matin/midi/soir: Harnoncourt (Teldec) or Freiburger Baroque (harmonia mundi)

31/59/73 Harnoncourt (Teldec)
if you don't go for the Pinnock box: one or two discs with Solomons (Sony) 45/48 or 26/48/49 or 45/59/39 have appeared as single discs. Solomons is among the leanest and meanest there is but it works for these early pieces. Pinnock has a more pleasant sounding ensemble, but not quite the storminess.

22/63/80 Orpheus Chamber orchestra/DG. IMO the best of their Haydn and a great selection of pieces.

60/70/90 Rattle/Birmingham/EMI. I am not the biggest fan of the gimmicky "Distratto" but 70 is a huge favorite and totally underrated, and 90 also not sufficiently appreciated

the Paris set 82-87: Harnoncourt (harmonia mundi) for colorful HIP, Bernstein for traditional big band, Marriner or Wolf for chamber orchestra, Fey for HIP influenced modern. Brüggen is also good, Kuijken or Weil serviceable (a bit too lean HIP for my taste) Plenty of very good recordings, 

at least 88 and 92, but as I said 90 is one of my favorites as well and 89 and 91 are underrated. There is a traditional set with Böhm (not my cup of tea but regarded highly), also Bernstein.

the London set or some subset, again too many, just take your pick.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> I prefer the Haydn of the Sturm und Drang period. It's those symphonies in the middle where he was exploring and experimenting that produced some energetic, potent and enjoyable music. This set is relatively cheap and extremely rewarding:
> View attachment 154988


That is a great set for introducing the mature but not late symphonies. It is such an enjoyable set.

But the London symphonies may come first as they are among Haydn's greatest works. Even those who don't want to spend a lot of time with Haydn need to hear/have these works along with The Creation, The Seasons and the Severn Last Words. There are many good sets of the London symphonies but for me the Jochum has just a little extra something compared with other excellent "conventional" sets (Davis, Bernstein etc.). The Beecham set is also superb and there used to be a set conducted by Woldike which was also very enjoyable. For HIP accounts of the London symphonies there is Minkowski which has many merits but is, I think, a little unrelenting.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Itullian said:


> I would definitely start with the best.
> The London and Paris symphonies.
> ...


I remain a great fan of the Haydn symphonies. Each year on the composer's birthday I select the symphony of my own age number and give it a close listen, usually with score in hand. I've been doing this now for over half a century, and I look forward to running out of symphonies to program for March 31, but (following Hoboken) I have backup plans about how to approach that 109th year of life, perhaps by playing two symphonies, numbers 1 and Hob. I/108, the Symphony B. Or maybe I'll just start over going backwards down the list.

In any case, I agree with Itullian for an approach to the Haydn Symphonies. Though with some composers I might suggest begin at the beginning, Haydn is probably better appreciated for his large symphonic oeuvre by starting with some of the masterpieces. My own first two Haydn symphonies were the famous _Surprise_ and _Clock_ Symphonies. I was fairly young when I got these on a vinyl record, which I literally wore out playing.

I have since listened to every Haydn symphony, at least once doing so on a day-to-day basis, starting with number 1 and going through a box set, listening to one symphony per day in numerical order without missing a day. I may do this again with a second box set of the symphonies. I have several.

But the later symphonies are a good place to start with Haydn. And none are better "Haydn symphonies" than the _Surprise _and the _Clock_. They introduced me into Haydn's world, and I've been a resident ever since. Maybe you will be, too.


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## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

Brahmsian Colors said:


> I agree with Art Rock's sound advice.
> 
> Here are some of my suggestions:
> 
> ...


The finale of Symphony No. 38 in C major is one of my favorite melodies Haydn ever wrote.

How come no-one mentioned 25 in C Major? Is very Mozartian. For the early symphonies, No. 10 in D Major is perhaps the most immediately grabbing. And check out the finale of 46 in B major.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

OH, yes, Beecham ... "Tommy" (as John Barbirolli termed him) ... Sir Thomas. Woldike had a very-fine group of interpretations, also. Don't forget George Szell/Cleveland in THEIR recordings of some of the later ones. Geez, there was even Furtwangler, in the 88th. Until now, didn't even realize that he recorded it with BOTH his excellent Berlin Phil, and the Vienna Phil. To be honest, I think some of the entrances, of the VPO, seem a bit "soggy", almost imprecise and lagging ... and I'd prefer Szell.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

BTW, let's not forget the Decca/London set, with Antal Dorati & the Philharmonia Hungarica, in ALL the Symphonies. I have parts of the complete set, and Dorati and the Hungarians were almost-uniformly FINE, in their interpretations.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I would not recommend Beecham for a beginner. The sound is dated, the editions he used are bad (lots of missing wind parts etc.) and the style is rather narrowly focused on "elegant" and melodic. And while I like a lot of Dorati, he is (as most large projects) is not always very good, sometimes routine, some rough playing from a not quite top rank orchestra and some minuets tend to drag.
I also think that it is a bit unfortunate and contributing to clichés of the "prankster" (but also harmless and staid) Papa Haydn, that pieces like "the clock" and the "Surprise" are the main first encounters. They are great pieces but there greatness is IMO more hidden by the surface features referred to by the nicknames. 103 and 104 are IMO a bit better as they lack the "jokes" and are more obviously "serious" symphonies on a grand scale. And as nowadays almost anything can be easily sampled online, I'd always recommend listening to some of the austere minor key ca. 1770s symphonies like 44,45,49 in addition to some of the London set.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"Slow fan-fare tune~! D min-or gloom~!"


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

I have the full set from Brilliant Classics.

I listened to, and enjoyed, them all. I am now on my second listen, and am currently on number 51.

It is hard for me to pick favorites; they are all, for the most part, very good, fast, lively and just plain fun!


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> "Slow fan-fare tune~! D min-or gloom~!"


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Judas Priest Fan said:


> I have the full set from Brilliant Classics.
> 
> I listened to, and enjoyed, them all. I am now on my second listen, and am currently on number 51


I love #51....absolutely insane Horn I part..goes up to high concert Bbs repeatedly...1/2 step higher than Schumann Konzertstuck, or Strauss "Symphonia Domestica"!!


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