# Mandarin, Scythian, Sacre



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

At least once (such as post #5 here: Stravinsky: Le Sacre du printemps (The Rite of Spring)) I saw someone make a comparison between these three works, apparently seeing them as being in a similar vein. That seemed like an interesting comparison. So which is your favorite?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Like them all - 
Le Sacre is tops
Mandarin is next
Scythian is 3rd


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I know I'm supposed to like Stravinsky the most, but I have more recordings of the Miraculous Mandarin. It relates more to modern times, especially with the opening, which sounds like you're in an apartment in the city with the windows open to the noise of traffic. And there is the acknowledgement of the prevalence of sex trafficking, which is a plague of our times, or at least something we're finally coming to grips with.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I voted the Stravinsky work, which I think is likely to lead the poll.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Almost exactly 10 years ago, I attended one of the most memorable concerts of my life, with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting The Miraculous Mandarin and The Rite of Spring. They're both great works, of course - the Prokofiev is good, albeit not in the same league - but I couldn't live without "The Rite". It would be one of my Desert Island discs, for sure.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Almost exactly 10 years ago, I attended one of the most memorable concerts of my life, with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting The Miraculous Mandarin and The Rite of Spring. They're both great works, of course - the Prokofiev is good, albeit not in the same league - but I couldn't live without "The Rite". It would be one of my Desert Island discs, for sure.


Wow!! what a concert!! nothing like getting the hormones all stirred up!! I heard Salonen conduct Le Sacre with Chicago a couple years ago...amazing - he really had it down, the orchestra sounded fabulous....never heard him do Mandarin...I'm sure it was terrific....


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Heck148 said:


> Wow!! what a concert!! nothing like getting the hormones all stirred up!! I heard Salonen conduct Le Sacre with Chicago a couple years ago...amazing - he really had it down, the orchestra sounded fabulous....never heard him do Mandarin...I'm sure it was terrific....


Salonen is superb in this repertoire, that's for sure. As for the concert, the "filler" was a fine performance of Shostakovich's 2nd Piano Concerto! I really got my money's worth there


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Salonen is superb in this repertoire, that's for sure. As for the concert, the "filler" was a fine performance of Shostakovich's 2nd Piano Concerto! I really got my money's worth there


Shosty PC #2!! - excellent - that's a really neat piece!!

Salonen is the real deal - I heard him do Petrushka with CSO [same trip as Le Sacre] - very excellent...
Then I heard them do Mahler 9 - that was amazing!! superb in every way - Salonen had excellent grasp of the work - orchestra sounded great...


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

This was so, so difficult for me. MM or Rite? I went for Rite in the end. As good as Scythian is, it can't get a look in with these two giants .....


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Back in the early '70s Boulez did a "greatest hits" concert with Cleveland in Boston's Symphony Hall: La Mer, Mandarin suite, and Sacre . . . My ears were ringing for a long time.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Close for me between the Bartok and Prokofiev, ultimately I find the Prokofiev a little more fun and exciting... adventurous or something, playful. I love Prokofiev's use of orchestral color. 

I've never liked Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I haven't listened to the Scythian Suite, but I doubt it's as good as Le Sacre du Printemps.

I enjoy The Miraculous Mandarin, but it's nowhere near my favorite Bartok work.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

ORigel said:


> I enjoy The Miraculous Mandarin, but it's nowhere near my favorite Bartok work.


This is how I feel about it too. I like it, but its not near the top of my favorite Bartok works either.


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

I like Stravinsky a lot, but his ballets are not my favorite works by him. So in a close call I voted MM. It's not near the top of my favorite works by Bartok, but that's only because he composed so much great stuff.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

It didn't take a lot of thinking for me to settle on the Rite, which is one of those pieces that's almost in a class of its own. That's not to denigrate either of the other works -- especially not the Bartok, which is one of my favourite pieces. Never have managed to get to a live performance of it, though. The Scythian Suite I like but it's really not in the same league as the other two. 

I agree with the assessments of Salonen in this repertoire. He has a Mandarin Suite with the LA Phil which is absolutely on fire, one of my favourite versions, though I wish it was the full ballet!


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I voted for Stravinsky, but it was a very close call over the Bartok.

It could have gone either way...


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I once read about a patient in a mental asylum who listened to nothing but Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin every day. He was obsessed with the ballet, and would play it over and over and over again. There was no other music for him. It was the only recording that he wanted to own. So I think we can safely say which way he'd have voted.

As for myself, I find it difficult to choose between The Miraculous Mandarin and Le Sacre du Printemps. I see them as similar works, and like both. I also occasionally listen to the Scythian Suite, which is another work that is full of brilliant orchestral textures, but I don't listen to it nearly as often as the other two. (Despite that I probably listen to Prokofiev's music more, overall.)

Considering that I own many more recordings of Le Sacre, I'll have to pick Le Sacre here. Yet, one of the reasons why I own fewer recordings of the Bartok is because I like Claudio Abbado's LSO recording on DG so much that I've never felt a strong need to collect many other versions. IMO, it's one of the best recordings that Abbado made during his career: 



. Nevertheless, I do own other versions--by Chailly, Dorati, Boulez, and Ivan Fischer. Which isn't all that many recordings for me, at least not when I like a piece of music, as I do here.

In contrast, I've bought an almost obscene number of recordings of Le Sacre over the past four decades (on both LP & CD)--by the following conductors, who I'll try to list in some order of preference, starting with my top three favorite versions of Le Sacre--from (1) Igor Markevitch & the Philharmonia: 



, (2) Ernest Bour: 



, and (3) Pierre Boulez in Paris in 1963: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wK8fSkjOy0; as well as other recordings that I've liked by Dutoit, Chailly in Cleveland, Dorati x 2, Stravinsky, Monteux, Abbado, Craft, Boulez on CBS/Sony & DG, Bernstein in NY, Ansermet, Litton, Salonen in LA (along with his earlier version with the Philharmonia, which I don't like quite as much), Van Zweden on Exton, C. Davis, Haitink, Muti in Philadelphia, Currentzis, and Tilson Thomas on Sony. So I feel almost obligated to pick Le Sacre, since I'm obviously a bit obsessed with the score (despite that my favorite ballet by Stravinsky is The Firebird...).

Whereas I own only a single recording of Prokofiev's Scythian Suite--by Abbado & the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, on DG. Which is another remarkable performance: 



. Again, I've never felt a need to buy any other recording; since, IMO, Abbado was at his best in the music of Profokiev (along with Berg, Bartok, Schoenberg, Webern, Nono, Rossini, Mozart, Verdi, Mahler, Stravinsky, Debussy, & Ravel). For me, Abbado's tenures in London & Chicago represent his best years as a conductor.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Stravinsky , no shadow of a doubt for me


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Heck148 said:


> Like them all -
> Le Sacre is tops
> Mandarin is next
> Scythian is 3rd


That's probably how I'd rank them. _Le Sacre_ is definitely first for me.



Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Almost exactly 10 years ago, I attended one of the most memorable concerts of my life, with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting The Miraculous Mandarin and The Rite of Spring. They're both great works, of course - the Prokofiev is good, albeit not in the same league - but I couldn't live without "The Rite". It would be one of my Desert Island discs, for sure.





Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Salonen is superb in this repertoire, that's for sure. As for the concert, the "filler" was a fine performance of Shostakovich's 2nd Piano Concerto! I really got my money's worth there


That sounds like an amazing concert!


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