# What is year 0 of avant-garde in classical?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

We may never know i was reading an article yesterday archeologist dig up a new codex music has old as 1000 years, they did not cracked it yet until recently.

For me of course year zero is the birth of polyphonie - polyphonie aquitaine saint-martial de limoge but there is Pérotin and school of notre dame that is bold and daring or the fameous Bamberg codex of hoquetus that if very odd to my ears.

Or what to think of a classical composer like Alfonso X el sabio, he introduce rhytm or somesort of latin groove to classical music during 13th century this is a novelty itself is music sound avant for it's time.

Or the medieval Carmina Burana?

What is your point of view on this do you share the same vision has i ( sir deprofundis).


:tiphat:


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I one sense it was avant garde to organize large ensemble singing. Ambrosian chant?


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Maybe the Futurist noise machines made by Luigi Russolo in 1913. I don't think you can count Debussy or Satie because what they were doing was still very much a movement of music which was soon to be accept by the mainstream, as opposed to creating a cult of eternal non-conformity to accepted ideas of what is musical.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm going to agree with the polyphony idea. Who could imagine such a thing if it was not around yet? Maybe it was discovered by accident when someone came in at the wrong time, but to have the courage to continue trying it even then must have been pretty radical.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

The term apparently began usage in 1825 Europe, describing a group of artists. So, to respect the original meaning, thinking should be toward groups, rather than individuals. Of course, at TC, rules have been known to be broken.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

depending on the specific criteria used to define "avant-garde in classical music".


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> Maybe the Futurist noise machines made by Luigi Russolo in 1913. I don't think you can count Debussy or Satie because what they were doing was still very much a movement of music which was soon to be accept by the mainstream, as opposed to creating a cult of eternal non-conformity to accepted ideas of what is musical.


I would also consider Russolo as the first avant-garde composer.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> I would also consider Russolo as the first avant-garde composer.


When you started a poll about Russolo as the first extreme avant-garde composer half the forum raged against you but in that context I think you are right. His noise machines are a more noticeable difference than other innovations.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

When it started to innovate outside the culture, society and civilization it was supposed to represent and became bashful toward the previous styles. A side effect of late 19th century philosophies that was actualized in 20th century. 2nd Phase was in the 1960s indeed. But we're talking about the first phase.

So some time in the first half of the 20th century.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

the worlds second musician was probably avant gard


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