# Why is Beethoven Symphony 9 movement 4 sometimes split into 2 parts



## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

I have several copies of Beethoven's 9th symphony. Conductors such as Gardiner, Fricsay, Krajan and others split it into 2. Why do they do this. Do people like the way this is done?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I don't think the conductor splits it into two. The CD just breaks it up for tracking purposes.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

It is strange that a lot of them do that. It's like they're saying the good stuff doesn't start until the tenor opens his mouth.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Get the one conducted by Benjamin Zander. It is in 38 tracks (I believe for educational purposes):


Disc: 1
1. First Movement. Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso. Quarter note = 88
2. First Movement. Exposition. First Tutti
3. First Movement.Exposition. Transition Theme
4. First Movement. Exposition. Second Theme
5. First Movement. Exposition. Bar 132
6. First Movement. Exposition. Development
7. First Movement. Exposition. Fugato
8. First Movement. Lead into recapitulation
9. First Movement. Recapitulation
10. First Movement. Coda
11. Second Movement. Molto Vivace. Dotted half-note = 116
12. Second Movement. The extra timpani figure (Starting 2 bars before)
13. Second Movement. Stringendo il tempo
14. Second Movement. Trio, Presto (Whole note = 116)
15. Second Movement. Repeat of Scherzo, Molto Vivace (dotted half-note = 116)
16. Second Movement. Coda
17. Third Movement. Adagio molto e cantabile (quarter note = 60)
18. Third Movement. Andante moderato (quarter note = 63)
19. Third Movement: Tempo 1
20. Third Movement. The new note (starting one bar before)
21. Third Movement. Andante moderato (quarter note = 63)
22. Third Movement. Adagio for winds (quarter note = 60)
23. Third Movement. Lo stesso tempo 12/8 (dotted quarter note = 60)
24. Fourth Movement. Presto, 'cry of terror' cello, bass recitative (dotted half-note = 66
25. Fourth Movement. Allegro ma non troppo (first movement) (quarter note = 88)
26. Fourth Movement. Vivace (second movement) (dotted half-note = 116)
27. Fourth Movement. Adagio cantabile (third movement) (quarter note = 60)
28. Fourth Movement. 'Freude' theme (half-note = 80)
29. Fourth Movement. Second 'cry of terror' and Bass recitative
30. Fourth Movement. 'Freude schöner Götterfunken' Chorus and soloists (half-note = 80)
31. Fourth Movement. Allegro assai vivace, alla Maricia. Tenor and Chorus (half-note = 84)
32. Fourth Movement. Fugato section
33. Fourth Movement. 'Freude schöener Götterfunken' Chorus
34. Fourth Movement. 'Seid umschlungen, Millionen' Andante maestoso. Chorus (half-note = 7
35. Fourth Movement. 'Ihr stürtzt nieder' Adagio ma non troppo. Chorus (half-note = 60)
36. Fourth Movement. Double Fugue. Allegro energico Chorus (dotted half-note = 84)
37. Fourth Movement. Allegro ma non tanto (half-note = 120) Soloists and chorus
38. Fourth Movement. Prestissimo (half-note = 132)


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

It sometimes splits before the entry of vocal voices, maybe only for tracking purpose. Before the split is the first large section of this movement, and another three sections come after it. Also it can be further divided into smaller parts (variations, fillers etc).


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Get the one conducted by Benjamin Zander. It is in 38 tracks (I believe for educational purposes):
> 
> Disc: 1
> 1. First Movement. Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso. Quarter note = 88
> ...


Punctuational as ever :tiphat:


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Is there a real break between the two sections when you listen to it?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> It is strange that a lot of them do that. It's like they're saying the good stuff doesn't start until the tenor opens his mouth.


It may have to do with individual track purchases. For all three of these versions, Amazon will charge you $1.29 for the first part of it. They don't want you to buy the whole movement, maybe hoping you'll invest in the whole CD instead

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sy...468939013&sr=1-1&keywords=fricsay+beethoven+9


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

MarkW said:


> Is there a real break between the two sections when you listen to it?


No, there is no gap.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> It may have to do with individual track purchases. For all three of these versions, Amazon will charge you $1.29 for the first part of it. They don't want you to buy the whole movement, maybe hoping you'll invest in the whole CD instead
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sy...468939013&sr=1-1&keywords=fricsay+beethoven+9


No, this is how they are on cd.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Then we have David Zinman's Beethoven Ninth where you get the break before the choral part of the 4th movement, and as a bonus you get two of the choral parts to choose from (track 5 or track 6) (also note Zinman has fast tempos for all this to fit one disk):

1. I. Allegro Ma Non Troppo
2. II. Molto Vivace
3. III. Adagio Molto E Cantabile
4. IV. Presto
5. Allegro Assai Vivace All Marcia-end
6. Allegro Assai Vivace All Marcia-end (With General Pause)


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Florestan said:


> Then we have David Zinman's Beethoven Ninth where you get the break before the choral part of the 4th movement, and as a bonus you get two of the choral parts to choose from (track 5 or track 6) (also note Zinman has fast tempos for all this to fit one disk):
> 
> 1. I. Allegro Ma Non Troppo
> 2. II. Molto Vivace
> ...


What I do not get is how the one with the general pause is shorter than the one without the pause.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

More obnoxious: in the days of LPs at least one record company that should know better (I mean you, Decca) tried fitting the Ninth on one LP by putting a side break in the middle of the slow movement.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MarkW said:


> More obnoxious: in the days of LPs at least one record company that should know better (I mean you, Decca) tried fitting the Ninth on one LP by putting a side break in the middle of the slow movement.


I have one like that but it's DG:


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

MarkW said:


> More obnoxious: in the days of LPs at least one record company that should know better (I mean you, Decca) tried fitting the Ninth on one LP by putting a side break in the middle of the slow movement.


What does that mean?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There is no gap in the music. The tracking is done in case people want to go straight to the cantata without the introduction.


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## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

MarkW said:


> More obnoxious: in the days of LPs at least one record company that should know better (I mean you, Decca) tried fitting the Ninth on one LP by putting a side break in the middle of the slow movement.


Bless my soul...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> What does that mean?


Meaning you turned the record over from Side A to Side B in the middle of the slow movement.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

I had one Decca LP guilty of this: the VPO/Schmidt-Isserstedt one from the late 60s, as re-issued as the first Jubilee LP.
Great performance; Martti Talvela magnificent as bass, with James King, Marilyn Horne & Joan Sutherland. 
Graeme


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> What I do not get is how the one with the general pause is shorter than the one without the pause.


That is odd. I just looked at my CD and the track that includes the general pause is 12 seconds shorter than the other track. That is the written number on the back of the disk case, but I pulled up the two tracks and on my media player they are only 1 second different in length, the pause track being the longer one. Both play from beginning to end with no dead space at either end.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

GraemeG said:


> I had one Decca LP guilty of this: the VPO/Schmidt-Isserstedt one from the late 60s, as re-issued as the first Jubilee LP.
> Great performance; Martti Talvela magnificent as bass, with James King, Marilyn Horne & Joan Sutherland.
> Graeme


Buy it on CD, still out there.


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