# Mozart performed on Period Instruments



## JSBach85

Do anyone enjoy Mozart played on Period Instruments? I started listening to Mozart recordings on modern instruments while purchasing/listening to baroque on period instruments. One day I thought, why not trying Mozart and Haydn on period instruments as well? I thought that should be an amazing experience to listen works of classical era using period instruments and the adecuate pitch. My interest in it grew, especially with fortepiano, the idea of listening Mozart in a similar instrument that he performed his works caught my attention. After discovering part of the discography of Freiburger Barockorchester, I finally ordered this recording:










Do you have recordings of Mozart performed on period instruments? Share your opinion.


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## Bulldog

I have Mozart period instrument recordings on solo keyboard, chamber, orchestral, choral and opera works. I most appreciate period instruments for the chamber music.


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## Guest

HIP performaces are not automatically better.
There is more clarity and transparency but often also a speed contest wich takes away all the grandeur and the singing quality of the piece.
Listen to the "Watermusic",no grandeur at all ,( mostly) no shining colors and the necessary pomp and they often sound bleak and academic.
So there are good and bad performances on both sides.
A good cookbook does not make you a good cook.


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## wkasimer

There are a number of excellent HIP pianists who play Mozart - I'd particularly recommend Tuiija Hakkila, Andreas Staier, and Kristian Bezuidenhout.


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## Granate

Oh now we're talking!

One day I should do a challenge on 'Modern' Mozart orchestral recordings, but for now Mozart is an HIP choice for me. I need to buy these two releases, and I have not checked out his Piano Concertos yet.

















I like some operas in modern sound like the Giulini Don Giovanni, the Solti 1st Zauberflöte and the Böhm Così fan tutte and Requiem. The Philips symphonies just give me the chills.

How do you compare the Gardiner late symphonies and the Pinnock complete, together with Marriner?


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## Josquin13

When I was first began discovering classical music, back in the 1980s, the first set that I bought of Mozart Symphonies was Karl Böhm's DG cycle with the Berlin Philharmonic. (I had already been listening to Sir Thomas Beecham's RPO recordings of the Late Symphonies 35-41 on Seraphim LPs for several years.) Though I enjoyed the music, I wasn't sure if I was listening to the best recordings, so I asked a composer friend what he thought of Karl Böhm's Mozart Symphonies? To my surprise, he replied that Böhm's style of conducting was all wrong for Mozart. He explained that Böhm conducted the symphonies as if they were Brahms, and that the 18th century Mozart shouldn't sound like late 19th century Romanticism. Instead, he recommended that I listen to Christopher Hogwood's more stylistically informed period recordings with the Academy of Ancient Music.

So, I went out and bought a L'Oiseau Lyre LP of Mozart's "Prague" Symphony (& No 39) performed by Hogwood & the AAM, and what a revelation it was! Hogwood's performance made the "Prague" symphony sound like completely different music--it was so much more nimble and faster paced and involving than Böhm's. In a moment, I realized that I was hearing Mozart for the first time. & to this day, I still enjoy Hogwood's "Prague" (& "Paris") above all others (even Bruggen & Koopman).

I then sold my Böhm set, and never looked back. Admittedly, I have from time to time, over the years, bought and enjoyed some modern instrument recordings of Mozart--especially in his chamber music (the Chilingirian Quartet, Beaux Arts Trio, etc.), and any Mozart performed by the Staatskapelle Dresden, my favorite orchestra (Schreier, Blomstedt, Davis, Harnoncourt...), along with the Camerata Academia of the Salzburg Mozarteum (Graf, Anda, etc.)--but, for the most part, that early experience of hearing Hogwood's "Prague" Symphony No. 38 changed my view of Mozart, and turned me into an avid period enthusiast. 

If anyone's interested, here's a list of my favorite "go-to" period conductors, musicians & ensembles for Mozart's music:

Symphonies--conductors Christopher Hogwood, Frans Bruggen, and Ton Koopman. (Pinnock & Harnoncourt can be good too. In comparison, I liked Gardiner's at first, but over time, less & less so. I don't know Immerseel, Jacobs, or Minkowski's recordings.)

Piano Concertos--Daniel Isoir/La Petite Symphonie, Bilson/English Baroque Soloists (Gardiner at his best), Bezuidenhout/Freiburg Barockorchester, and Immerseel/Anima Eterna.

Piano Sonatas--Bilson, Bezuidenhout, and Immerseel. (Lubimov & Brautigam can be good too.)

Violin Concertos 1-5--Thomas Zehetmair/Orchestra of the 18th Century, Frans Bruggen, Mullova/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. (I haven't heard Carmignola & Abbado.)

Piano Trios--The Mozartean Players are my first choice, though recently, I've enjoyed the Rautio Piano Trio.

String Quartets--Quatour Mosaïques, Quatour Festetics, and two brilliant "Dissonance" Quartets (& Early Quartets) from Cuarteto Casals (they use period bows with modern strings) and the Chiaroscuro Quartet. Recently, I've also enjoyed Quatour Cambini-Paris in the 6 Haydn Quartets (though probably not in preference to the others).

String 6 Quintets--Hausmusik London, Ensemble 415.

Clarinet Quintet--Quatour Mosaïques/Wolfgang Meyer, L'Archibudelli/Charles Neidich.

Piano Quartets 1 & 2--The Mozartean Players, Bilson & co. on Archiv, and Isoir/La Petite Symphonie. 

Violin Sonatas--Gatti/Alvini, Podger/Cooper, and Mülljeans/Bezuidenhout. (Manze is interesting too.)

Operas--Ostman/Drottingholm Baroque Orchestra (on DVDs--I enjoyed seeing the authentic 18th century stage sets at the Drottingholm Palace theater, which were also used in Ingmar Bergman's film of The Magic Flute), Gardiner/English Baroque Soloists, William Christie/Les Arts Florrisants, and Rene Jacobs/Freiburg Barockorchester. (I've not heard Currentzis, Minkowski, Koopman, or Harnoncourt in the operas.)

Choral Music--William Christie/Les Arts Florrisants--in my opinion, Christie's Requiem is in a different class from Gardiner's, Ton Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque Soloists--a very good "fire & brimstone" performance of the Requiem, and Peter Neumann/Kölner Kammerchor & Collegium Cartusianum. I also occasionally find myself in the mood for the wild extremes of Harnoncourt's 2nd recording of the Requiem on a Deutsche Harmonia Mundi Hybrid SACD, though I strongly dislike most of Harnoncourt's earlier Mozart choral works survey for Teldec, which I wouldn't recommend in preference to Neumann.


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## DarkAngel

For complete symphonies boxset you go to Hogwood and Pinnock, you almost have to own the Hogwood since it is so comprehensive with many unnamed symphonies and fragments you will find nowhere else, 19 CDs of music compared to Pinnock boxset which fits conventional symphonies on 11 CDs.......there are several very good partial sets of the later 25-41 symphonies by Gardiner, Bruggen and others


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## DarkAngel

For keyboard concertos large sets (using forte piano) I just went through my collection again (bilson, immerseel, brautigam, levin etc) recently and came to same conclusion as before......Sofronitsky is my favorite plus has the best sound balance between soloist and orchestra which for me can be a problem with other sets, the forte piano is not dwarfed in scale by orchestra










For one off or limited release I like Staier and Bezuidenhout........


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## DarkAngel

For keyboard sonatas (forte piano) you almost have to own the Brautigam boxset not only because it is very good, but also like Hogwood symphonies it is very comprehensive collection with assorted other solo keyboard works not found in other sets......

For just the sonatas and a few extras I again really like Bezuidenhout, I expect someday there will be a boxset but for now only individual releases.....


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## JSBach85

I am looking for Mozart Piano Concertos recordings, played on fortepiano. The options I have seen until now: Freiburger Barockorchester, Gardiner/English Concert, Musica Antiqua Collegium Varsoviense. Which one would you recommend me?


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## DarkAngel

JSBach85 said:


> I am looking for Mozart Piano Concertos recordings, played on fortepiano. The options I have seen until now: Freiburger Barockorchester, Gardiner/English Concert, Musica Antiqua Collegium Varsoviense. Which one would you recommend me?


My preference was made above for Sofronitsky boxset (Musica Antiqua Collegium Varsoviense), I would recommend trying to sample your choices first on spotify or tidal to see if you like the sound balance between solo instrument and orchestra....this is a big factor for me


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## JSBach85

Josquin13 said:


> Choral Music--William Christie/Les Arts Florrisants--in my opinion, Christie's Requiem is in a different class from Gardiner's, Ton Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque Soloists--a very good "fire & brimstone" performance of the Requiem, and Peter Neumann/Kölner Kammerchor & Collegium Cartusianum. I also occasionally find myself in the mood for the wild extremes of Harnoncourt's 2nd recording of the Requiem on a Deutsche Harmonia Mundi Hybrid SACD, though I strongly dislike most of Harnoncourt's earlier Mozart choral works survey for Teldec, which I wouldn't recommend in preference to Neumann.


I am also interested in sacred/choral music of W.A.Mozart. I agree with you that Christie is a good reference for the Requiem and is my second favourite recording after Herreweghe. I have 4 recordings of Mozart's Requiem: 1- Herreweghe / La Chapelle Royale, Collegium Vocale ; 2- Christie / Les Arts Florissants ; 3- Gardiner / English Baroque Soloists ; 4- Butt / Dunedin Consort (Reconstruction of first performance). I am also considering one of the following recordings:

Hogwood / The Academy of Ancient Music









Suzuki / Bach Collegium Japan









Any thoughts about those recordings?

Regarding Great Mass in C Minor K427, I have not any recording but I see interesting options: Gardiner, Herreweghe, Suzuki, Hogwood, Christie. I will listen to some samples to have an idea about the performances of each one.


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## Taplow

I cannot listen to baroque music performed on anything other than period instruments in a HIP style. When it comes to classical, however, I have a good mix of modern and HIP recordings.

Some classical period works just sound better on modern instruments to my ears. I generally prefer a modern piano for Mozart than the fortepiano, for example, which often sounds weak, lacks dynamics, and gets drowned by the orchestra. I have a complete set of the Mozart piano concertos by Gardiner/Bilson on Archiv, and while these don't suffer as much from this complaint as the Hogwood/Levin, I much prefer the Murray Perahia modern instrument recordings on Sony.

When it comes to orchestral and vocal works, however, it is less easy for me to choose between HIP and modern. I have some rousing great Mozart symphonies and masses on modern instruments, but have also recently discovered some recent period performances that make compelling listening - the Jordi Savall/Capella Reial de Catalunya recording of the Requiem on AliaVox, in particular.


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## bigshot

I love Bohm's Mozart. It was the proper style for Bohm to perform in. A conductor with a personal vision is better than one that worries about hitting all the marks of historical accuracy. The performer is half of the experience.


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## Taplow

bigshot said:


> A conductor with a personal vision is better than one that worries about hitting all the marks of historical accuracy.


Historically-informed performance is not about historical accuracy as I see it. It's about making use of available musicological resources to inspire and influence the interpretation. That is why it's called "historically-informed" and not "historically-accurate". It can never be accurate because we have no recordings, and no one alive today was there to hear how these works may have actually been performed in their time. And in any case, doing exactly what the composer intended may not always be best for the music.

At the end of the day it is about what sounds best to the ears of the listener, about which each one of us must make our own decision. And that is about the performance as a whole, including the vision, the interpretation, the instrumentation and the instrumental technique.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Seems like all my favorites have been mentioned. I'm doing a non-HIP thing right now  practicing Tarrega's transcription of the minuet from string quartet K421 on a modern classical guitar. It would be HIP if I used my Torres copy with gut-strings...


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## JSBach85

Taplow said:


> the Jordi Savall/Capella Reial de Catalunya recording of the Requiem on AliaVox, in particular.


Thanks for your suggestion. I will listen to the samples of this recording as well.


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## Josquin13

Hi JSBach85,

The Hogwood Mozart Requiem is very beautiful, and worth hearing (& owning). He uses Richard Maunder's edition, which sought to expunge all of Sussmayr's contributions. As a result, there is no Sanctus and Benedictus, as Maunder concluded these sections contained no genuine Mozart. The Lacrimosa is also largely reworked, with Maunder using material from the Introit. He also uses a rediscovered Mozart sketch for The Amen section of the Lacrimosa, which is fascinating. Basically, Maunder takes the view that Sussmayr was no Mozart. And, if you think about it, how high an opinion could Mozart really have had of his 25 year old student, considering that Constanza subsequently asked several other composers to complete her husband's work--who all declined--before asking Sussmayr to do so. (I would imagine that Mozart must have had a discussion with Constanza about which composers to ask, before he died, despite that he was desperately trying to finish the work himself. Wouldn't it have been interesting if Constanza had asked Beethoven or F.J. Haydn?, and one of them had said "yes"...)

Of course, the problem with getting rid of all of Sussmayr's contributions is that he may well have been working directly from Mozart's sketches for the Sanctus, Benedictus, and Lacrimosa (& elsewhere), and/or possibly composing in accordance with Mozart's last minute wishes and instructions. It also obviously leaves the Mass that much more unfinished and incomplete.

Hence, the Hogwood recording is unique, & radically so when it first came out in the mid-1980s. If you're going to acquire multiple recordings of the Requiem, then yes, I'd say it does make sense to own Hogwood's. As personally I've found it of value to hear the work stripped of Sussmayr's contributions. I would also add that Hogwood was, IMO, one of the finest Mozart conductors on the period scene for many years, with a great deal of experience conducting a wide range of Mozart works. For me, it shows in the excellence of his interpretations, whether he was conducting the complete symphonies, or the wind, violin, & piano concertos, or the choral works, etc.--that is, unless you have an aversion, as some people do, to the grittier sound and playing of the Academy of Ancient Music's period strings--compared to today's period groups--from the early days of the period revival in the 1980s.

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Requi...279869&sr=1-1&keywords=hogwood+mozart+Requiem

As for Suzuki, I haven't heard his Mozart Requiem. It did receive a number of awards from the British rags (BBC & Gramophone), but I don't recall what the critics at the International Record Review had to say about it (if anything). In my opinion, IRR was the finest of the British rags before the magazine sadly went out of print (as their critics would actually tell you when a Gardiner recording missed the mark, etc.). Personally, I tend to be a little wary of recordings that receive accolades from Gramophone (though BBC magazine may be a little better). Judging purely by the listening samples, I have to say I dislike what Suzuki does with the opening of the Kyrie in the Mass. He makes it sound almost bouncy, which I find strange. Though, admittedly, I haven't heard the performance, so I shouldn't comment any further.

As for the unfinished "Great" Mass in C minor, it's one of my favorite works by Mozart. From the recordings I know, I'd say there are very few first rate recordings of this Mass in the catalogue, on period instruments or otherwise. At least, not when you consider that some of Mozart's most incredibly beautiful vocal writing comes in this mass, and therefore in order to do the music full justice it's essential that the two sopranos are first rate. With that in mind, it's difficult to find everything working together on a single recording--i.e., two wonderful sopranos, & male singers, first class Mozart conducting, combined with excellent choral singing and instrumental playing. In other words, it's rare to get the whole package.

After such an exceptional Mozart Requiem, I was slightly disappointed with William Christie's Mass in C minor. (I admit I came to it with very high expectations.) It's not Christie's best Mozart conducting, in my view. Nor was I altogether won over by his singers. Nor has Gardiner's recording worn well on me over time. I think it's a bit overrated (like his Requiem). Among other period conductors that I've most liked in Mozart, neither Koopman, Bruggen, or Pinnock has recorded the Mass, unfortunately (as far as I can recall), nor has Jacobs: which leaves Hogwood and Peter Neumann. Both conductors have excellent sopranos--particularly Arleen Auger for Hogwood, and Barbara Schlick for Neumann. Of the two, Hogwood's recording remains my first choice among period recordings, though Neumann's performance is very solid and good (as is his whole Mozart series). I appreciate that there's no funny business or quirkiness from Neumann (as there was with Harnoncourt on Teldec), and consider his survey to be worth having at such an attractive discount price (currently $24 at Presto Classical), or very inexpensively per individual CD on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Dawso...515269666&sr=1-2&keywords=hogwood+mass+mozart

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8001869--mozart-complete-masses

https://www.amazon.com/Mass-C-Minor...515269800&sr=1-5&keywords=neumann+mass+mozart

Having said that, another favorite recording of mine of Mozart's Mass in C minor is a live modern instrument performance from Claudio Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic on Sony, which offers some very beautiful singing from Barbara Bonney and Arleen Auger--who are among the two best sopranos I've heard in this work. Peter Schreier's recording in Dresden is also very good, except that I prefer Abbado's singers (while I prefer Schreier in the Requiem). While others have liked Raymond Leppard's old recording on EMI as their first choice.

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Mass-...0245&sr=1-1&keywords=abbado+auger+mass+mozart

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Mass-...515276157&sr=1-2&keywords=leppard+mozart+mass

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Minor...515276157&sr=1-1&keywords=leppard+mozart+mass

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Great...15276225&sr=1-4&keywords=schreier+mozart+mass

Hope that helps.

P.S. Don't forget about Harnoncourt's thrilling "wild & terrible" 2nd account of the Requiem (on hybrid SACD), as here his extremes (& rhythmic distortions) seem to work very well:

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Requi...68&sr=1-2&keywords=harnoncourt+mozart+Requiem


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## Malx

Hi Josquin,

Do you know Herreweghe's Great C Minor Mass recording.

I find the singers very good, but as it is my only recording of the work I have no basis for comparison.

View attachment 100650


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## Josquin13

Hey Malx,

Nice to see you on these threads. I do own Herreweghe's Mass in C minor, but it's been many years since I've heard it, as it's in storage: I'd say too many to offer any valuable comments on the performance. I don't recall being overly crazy about it, but I also don't remember it being a weak performance either. That's about all I can say, sorry! 

But yes, Herreweghe normally gets very good soloists & choral singers, which is rarely, if ever, a weakness on his recordings.


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## Malx

Josquin,

It's all a bit different around here in comparison to the old place but they say a change is as good as a rest!

I am listening to Herreweghe right now and whilst I'm happy with the singing, and as yet I have yet to try and sample another recording, the one thing that occurs to me is that the orchestral playing seems a tad lacklustre but then again that could just be the way the work is.


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## Bulldog

Malx said:


> I am listening to Herreweghe right now and whilst I'm happy with the singing, and as yet I have yet to try and sample another recording, the one thing that occurs to me is that the orchestral playing seems a tad lacklustre but then again that could just be the way the work is.


The problem is Herreweghe, not the work. There's a definite lack of majesty in his interpretation.


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## JSBach85

Anyone has listened recordings of the Opera "La clemenza di Tito" performed on period instruments? I have Jacobs/Freiburger Barockorchester recording on Harmonia Mundi but I see with great interest the following ones: Gardiner/English Baroque Soloists, Marchi/Academia Montis Regalis, Hogwood/AAM.


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## JSBach85

What is your favourite recording of symphony 41 "Jupiter"?

With Jacobs/Freiburger Barockorchester I am not so convinced about the tempi:






I am now listening to Bruggen/Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century and as is more neutral, I am in general more satisfied with the performance:


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## JSBach85

Josquin13 said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a list of my favorite "go-to" period conductors, musicians & ensembles for Mozart's music:
> 
> Symphonies--conductors Christopher Hogwood, Frans Bruggen, and Ton Koopman. (Pinnock & Harnoncourt can be good too. In comparison, I liked Gardiner's at first, but over time, less & less so. I don't know Immerseel, Jacobs, or Minkowski's recordings.


I do have the complete symphonies by Hogwood but I just ordered this recording after listening to it through youtube:










It's the first time I listen a Mozart recording by Bruggen and I do like it. Great tempi and the Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century sounds excellent. Also I have been looking for more recordings of Symphony 40, one of my favourites and this one is among the top period instrument performances.


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## Josquin13

JSBACH85 asks, "What is your favourite recording of symphony 41 "Jupiter"?"

I'll assume you mean on 'period' instruments, given the subject of the thread. The Jacobs 41 is too quirky for me. I also can't say that I'm overly keen on Bruggen's late "live in Rotterdam" 41 recording either, or most of his live Rotterdam Mozart or Beethoven symphonies for that matter: at least among those I've directly compared. Rather, I've almost consistently found that I prefer Bruggen's earlier Philips studio recordings by a good margin (with the same orchestra), & the live Rotterdam 41 is no exception.

If I were pressed to pick just one Mozart "Jupiter" no. 41 on period instruments to take with me to my desert island, the choice would almost surely come down to Pinnock or Hogwood, & I might go with Pinnock for the slightly better playing and more recent sound quality. Although I do love the spirit of Hogwood's AAM performance, which is more rhythmic and dynamic than Pinnock's smoother take on this music. And, I'd probably place Bruggen 1 closely behind those two (though it depends on the day, as some days I really enjoy listening to Bruggen's Philips Mozart).

Granted, those choices are more conservative, which seems a strange thing to say now, since they certainly weren't in the early days of the period revival. But by "conservative" I mean in relation to period recordings that have come out since: from Jacobs, Minkowski, Bruggen 2, Immerseel, and possibly late Harnoncourt (in Vienna), which I've only heard parts of on You Tube.

Ton Koopman's Erato recording is another "Jupiter" that might be worth checking out, as I've generally liked his Mozart series on Erato. Although it's been such a long time since I've heard his 41. It isn't at all fresh in my mind--so I shouldn't recommend it.



















As for period recordings of "La clemenza di Tito", you might check out the recent Jeremie Rhorer recording with Le Cercle de L'Harmonie on the Alpha label. I haven't heard it myself but have read favorable reviews for the production & particularly the singers (though apparently Rhorer does adopt quick tempi in places, which may not be to all tastes):

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/May/Mozart_Tito_270.htm
https://www.operanews.com/Opera_News_Magazine/2015/3/Reviews/PARIS__La_Clemenza_di_Tito.html




https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Cleme...4934&sr=1-1&keywords=mozart+la+Clemenza+alpha

As for myself, I've liked the Drottingholm production of La clemenza di Tito, conducted by Arnold Östman. Though be warned that not everyone shares my enthusiasms for these authentic period productions, which use actual 18th scenery (discovered perfectly intact within the Drottingholm palace theater) that was contemporary to Mozart's time. (Note that Ingmar Bergman's wonderful film of The Magic Flute was also shot at the Drottingholm theater.) I should mention that the singers in the Drottingholm productions were not, for the most part, international 'stars', as they were on the later recordings that Östman made for L'Oiseau Lyre. Even so, I find these productions a lot of fun:






https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Cleme...42&sr=1-1&keywords=la+clemenza+di+tito+ostman

Other than that, I've been happy enough with Gardiner's recording of La Clemenza di Tito. But I haven't heard any other period recordings, including Teodor Currentzis HIP Music Aeterna recording from 2017, which I find is on YT in its entirety:






Hope that helps.


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## DarkAngel

Mackerras later recording with SCO is very fine in SACD hybrid format...........

and for old school many might turn to Bohm, Bernstein, but in a big surprise Klemp really delivers for me, I didn't expect the exciting lifted tempos from this guy......


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## jegreenwood

DarkAngel said:


> Mackerras later recording with SCO is very fine in SACD hybrid format...........
> 
> and for old school many might turn to Bohm, Bernstein, but in a big surprise Klemp really delivers for me, I didn't expect the exciting lifted tempos from this guy......


The Klemperer recordings were also issued on SACD as part of EMI's quickly abandoned Signature Series. The sound is good for EMI recordings of that era. I think these may have used the same mastering as some very expensive Japanese SACDs of these recordings. (The Signature Series releases were quite moderately priced.)

Perhaps Warner used the same mastering for its recent reissue.

Edit - forgot for the moment that the topic was period instruments. I have the Pinnock cycle for that.


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## JSBach85

DarkAngel said:


> Mackerras later recording with SCO is very fine in SACD hybrid format...........
> 
> and for old school many might turn to Bohm, Bernstein, but in a big surprise Klemp really delivers for me, I didn't expect the exciting lifted tempos from this guy......


As far as I know Otto Klemperer do not use period instruments neither under HIP performance. I do not know about Scottish Chamber Orchestra and Sir Charles Mackerras.

Edited: Seems that Mackerras and Scottish Chamber Orchestra is an hybrid of period performance practice using modern instruments. is not unusual to find ensembles working like this.


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## Biffo

JSBach85 said:


> As far as I know Otto Klemperer do not use period instruments neither under HIP performance. I do not know about Scottish Chamber Orchestra and Sir Charles Mackerras.
> 
> Edited: Seems that Mackerras and Scottish Chamber Orchestra is an hybrid of period performance practice using modern instruments. is not unusual to find ensembles working like this.


Your edit showed up as I was replying so I can only add that the booklet lists natural horns and natural trumpets, in other words the SCO is playing a mixture of modern and period instruments. Mackerras also does this on his Telarc Brahms Symphony cycle.


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## JSBach85

Back to the Mozart's Requiem, I have been purchasing and listening more recordings. The last recording was Jacobs/Freiburger Barockorchester:










The recording of Jacobs follows the Sussmayr edition completed by the contemporary French composer Pierre-Henri Dutron. Jacobs conducting is forceful and also presents a good balance between voices and orchestra is achieved by using a smaller choir with respect to other recordings. Unlike Suzuki and Christie recordings, the tempi are sometimes too risky, with some very hasty sections. The performance of Freiburger Barockorchester is as usual extraordinary, with great transparency and clarity on string instruments. The main problem of this recording is that it is a too risky bet for the tempi of some sections and the overornamentation that Dutron has incorporated on the Sussmayr edition, the decision of Jacobs to introduce these variations does not quite like me. Summarizing, I am not happy with this recording and I prefer others instead.

Suzuki/Bach Collegium Japan










I got Suzuki recording last week along with Jacobs, it is a reconstruction on the Sussmayr edition. As positive aspects, as is usual in Suzuki, the conducting is very careful and transparent, the tempi are not risky and a good cohesion between voices and instruments is achieved, however, it lacks the luminosity and contrast of Christie and Herreweghe recordings. The vocal cast is good, standing out the soprano Carolyn Sampson and the tenor Makoto Sakurada, although in the vocal aspect in general I prefer Gardiner. The sound recording is very good, in this aspect it stands out in the same way as the recording of Butt.

Butt/Dunedin Consort










John Butt also follows the Sussmayr edition, but it is also a reconstruction of the premiere / first performance of the complete work in 1793. I bought this recording in December, relying on the good reviews it has received in other forums. The main difference compared to other versions is the use of a reduced choir of 16 singers and its main virtue is that it achieves an extraordinary balance between the choir and the orchestra. Other positive aspects of this recording are the solid, contrasted and energetic direction, as well as a varied orchestra that provides a colorful instrumental performance. The sound capture is very good, which contributes to better appreciate all the textures.

This is a translation of a review I've done last week in a spanish forum concerning my last purchases on Mozart's Requiem, I also have my opinion of the other ones I own: Herreweghe (my favourite recording), Gardiner and Christie. I am a little dissapointed of Jacobs so that following your advice and my criteria, I finally decided to order Bruggen recording on Glossa since I noticed in samples that is well balanced and more academic than Jacobs. I may consider Hogwood later on since has good opinions.


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## Larkenfield

I find it a strange irony that some of these fine period performances designed to capture the authentic sound of the period, such as the Pinnock and Bruggen, have an added _artificial_ ambiance. I think that very much detracts from the overall impression and adds a note of falsity. Only the Hogwood sounds natural and honest in its setting and ambiance. Not to have a period recording with honest acoustics seems like a contradiction of terms. I'm for a natural ambiance as much as possible, or only add a little extra without it becoming so noticeable. The ambiance is quite apparent using headphones, with too much sound hanging artificially in the air and spoiling the period effects. Just a personal preference of mine, probably not important to anyone else.


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## JSBach85

Larkenfield said:


> I find it a strange irony that some of these fine period performances designed to capture the authentic sound of the period, such as the Pinnock and Bruggen, have an added _artificial_ ambiance. I think that very much detracts from the overall impression and adds a note of falsity. Only the Hogwood sounds natural and honest in its setting and ambiance. Not to have a period recording with honest acoustics seems like a contradiction of terms. I'm for a natural ambiance as much as possible, or only add a little extra without it becoming so noticeable. The ambiance is quite apparent using headphones, with too much sound hanging artificially in the air and spoiling the period effects. Just a personal preference of mine, probably not important to anyone else.


Well... As far as I know, Historically Informed Performance is just an approach to the performance of classical music, which aims to be faithful to the approach, manner and style of the era in which a work was originally conceived. I hope nobody belive and assume that this was exactly what music sounded centuries ago. We never know about how music sounded centuries ago, nobody was there. If someone wants authenticity, then there is no point to listen any work in a CD or DVD, because this is not authentic in any way. Then, we all should listen to Early Music in a 18th century hall or church, everybody with 18th century costumes, with candlelights, forgive about microphones, amplifiers and other sounds (no cars, no motorbikes, no planes, no mobile phones) probably performed somewhere in the middle of the field.

Concerning Mozart's Requiem, we must recreate the situation in 1793, but which musicians? what about the tempi used by this time? what about the choir size? We must forgive then about just listening the Requiem movements as we know today and then contextualize the Requiem within a strict Catholic religious rite, with all the ordinary parts of a catholic mass, understood the Requiem as a strict Catholic religious office. Women singing? That is a heresy, men and kids trained to sing from their earliest childhood.

In addition to this, everybody remember... Nowadays musicians, performers, follow a modern 21th century life. By those times a composer lived to compose and play music and that's it, kids were trained and lived to sing and this was the only purpose of their lifes. Yes, life was fairly harder...


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## JSBach85

Regarding Piano Concertos, I finally ordered and got Gardiner / Bilson. The English Baroque Soloists. as a first approach to this works:










I have been listening to some random piano concertos of Sofronitzki/Musicae Antiquae Collegium Varsoviense and Immerseel/Anima Eterna through youtube. I have a fairly easy question: why Sofronitzki plays harpsichord in earlier piano concertos while Gardiner and Immerseel plays fortepiano? Which criteria would you consider more correct in terms of using harpsichord/fortepiano in early piano concertos?


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## Josquin13

Mozart's three K. 107 concertos are often considered 'harpischord' concertos because they were (1) early Mozart, composed in 1771, and (2) based on sonatas by J.C. Bach. I recall that Ton Koopman has likewise recorded them on a harpischord.


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## KenOC

Mozart's Piano Concerto KV175 in D major, usually called No. 5, is his first fully original work in that form and dates from late 1773. Arthur Schoonderwoerd's recorded version is played on the harpsichord, and the program notes argue that, for technical reasons, it is certain that the concerto was written for that instrument.

Mozart resurrected that every early work some years later, in 1782, for a concert in Vienna, though he wrote a new final movement for it. On the same CD, Schoonderwoerd performs that version of the KV175 on a tangent piano.


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## JSBach85

Regarding the german opera "Die Entführung aus dem Serail" (The Abduction from the Seraglio) I am now listening Gardiner through youtube and I like it:






Which recording of this opera played on period instruments would you recommend?


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## wkasimer

JSBach85 said:


> Regarding the german opera "Die Entführung aus dem Serail" (The Abduction from the Seraglio) I am now listening Gardiner through youtube and I like it:
> 
> Which recording of this opera played on period instruments would you recommend?


The recent Jacobs is my HIP Entfuhrung of choice. Lots of energy, and very well sung:


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## JSBach85

wkasimer said:


> The recent Jacobs is my HIP Entfuhrung of choice. Lots of energy, and very well sung:
> 
> View attachment 103265


Thank you for your recommendation, Jacobs seems to be a solid conductor for this opera as usual.


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## JSBach85

Taplow said:


> I cannot listen to baroque music performed on anything other than period instruments in a HIP style. When it comes to classical, however, I have a good mix of modern and HIP recordings.
> 
> Some classical period works just sound better on modern instruments to my ears. I generally prefer a modern piano for Mozart than the fortepiano, for example, which often sounds weak, lacks dynamics, and gets drowned by the orchestra. I have a complete set of the Mozart piano concertos by Gardiner/Bilson on Archiv, and while these don't suffer as much from this complaint as the Hogwood/Levin, I much prefer the Murray Perahia modern instrument recordings on Sony.
> 
> When it comes to orchestral and vocal works, however, it is less easy for me to choose between HIP and modern. I have some rousing great Mozart symphonies and masses on modern instruments, but have also recently discovered some recent period performances that make compelling listening - the Jordi Savall/Capella Reial de Catalunya recording of the Requiem on AliaVox, in particular.


I've got Savall Requiem recording this week and I am satiesfied overall with the result. Savall uses a smaller ensemble and choir compared with other recordings, conducting is not as colorful as in other recordings but provides a good sense of drama, reinforced by the inclusion of the opening masonic funeral music. Regarding the instruments, the strings sound enough powerful but my favourite are the period basset horns. The recording sound is outstanding being a SACD. Savall as many other conductors uses the Sussmayr edition which is the one I like.

At this time my favourite recording is Herreweghe/Collegium Vocale, La Chapelle Royale, but among my favourites I would say Butt/Dunedin Consort, Suzuki/Bach Collegium Japan, Gardiner/English Baroque Soloists and Savall/Le Concert des Nations.


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## Ras

*Harnoncourt*

*Some of my favorite period recordings are Harnoncourt's last recordings with the Concentus Musicus Wien:
Buchbinder normally plays modern instruments, but here he plays a fortepiano* and he will rock your house in the 25th piano concerto which has become my favorite Mozart concerto since I first heard this recording:









*The Haffner Symphony is mind blowing in this recording:*









*This one isn't half bad either:*


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## Guest

Harnoncourt is excellent for Mozart. I think he is my favourite musician in the HIP scene.


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## Ras

If you can go through yet one more *Eine Kleine Nachtmusik* without going googiey-chouuks  - then you should try *Andrew Manze on Harmonia Mundi:
*








Manze also recorded some of the violin concertos, but my favorite is *Simon Standage with Hogwood*:









*Rachel Podger recorded the best complete set of the violin sonatas with Gary Cooper* (no kidding that's his name!):


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## Guest

One thing I really do not understand is the vibrato-less playing for Mozart and other 18th century composers, despite vibrato being a thing that people did back then.......


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## Ras

shirime said:


> One thing I really do not understand is the vibrato-less playing for Mozart and other 18th century composers, despite vibrato being a thing that people did back then.......


*I think you will like this essay by David Hurwitz:*

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/ClassicsToday-Vibrato.pdf


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## Guest

Ras said:


> *I think you will like this essay by David Hurwitz:*
> 
> http://www.classicstoday.com/features/ClassicsToday-Vibrato.pdf


I've read this, and also treatises by L. Mozart, Gragnani and other treatises, letters (from Mozart himself) and descriptions of _singing_ at the time, and why it was important that musicians imitate the expressiveness of the human voice.........hence my interest in HIP vibrato. It's an interesting essay for sure, and compiles more than a few pieces of evidence, but I feel that Hurwitz's main thesis here is that Norrington was wrong and Harnoncourt is right. Personally, there are things about Norrington I rather like _other_ than his [racist, snobby, crackpot] claims about Eastern Europeans and gypsies 'infecting' the otherwise 'pure' string tone.


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## DavidA

JSBach85 said:


> Regarding Piano Concertos, I finally ordered and got Gardiner / Bilson. The English Baroque Soloists. as a first approach to this works:


I have just acquired this set. Revelatory performances. Interesting as Bilson says the pianist can really let himself go on a fortepiano in Mozart whereas on a Steinway the pianist has to be restrained. Gives a totally different feel to the performances. I'm not deserting Perahia, Brendel, Serkin & co but this makes a fascinating listen.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

Consider me a cheapskate, but I like a good boxset. I don't think one will find a definitive box set of all known works, but picking and choosing each style is well worth it.

Symphony wise, I don't think you'll find a better set than Trevor Pinnock's. The recordings are very alive and well recorded and I find myself going to them more than other sets. They're practically giving these away if you know where to look.








If you want a very good solo fortepiano works set, I highly recommend Bart van Oort's set on the Brilliant label. Another contender would be Brautigam's set, but my copy only focuses on the sonatas. Oort's set features smaller pieces, fugues, works original intended for harpsichord and organ, etc. 







Then for clavier-concerte, I have to recommend Jos van Immerseel's set. Immerseel is a good introduction to HIP. His Beethoven sounds like the Beethoven we're used to. His Mozart sounds like the Mozart we're used to. Sure, the orchestras are smaller, but in no way do they ever sound weaker. 







Then for the violin concertos, I have to recommend Isabelle Faust's set, though it's not complete by all means. 







As far as sets, that's what I have. After that, I mostly just focus on single releases for certain works I like. I have Herrweghe recordings of the Requiem and the Mass in C. Various Harpsichord works. A release from Immerseel containing the 2 piano concerto, the flute and harp concerto, and a horn concerto.

I've been trying to find performances of the operas that I can hold up to my favorite "modern" performances, and I just haven't found ones I like. Ostman, Currentzis, Jacobs, and Gardiner seem to follow the school of thought that Mozart must played as quickly as possible. Some like the brisk pace, but it sounds rushed. I quite like Kuijken's operatic performances, but I'm not the biggest fan of the choice of singers, though I will not say they are bad.


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