# Pollini, Zimerman or Horowitz ???



## CRIMSONDRAGON

Hi guys, I have just joined this marvellous site and was hoping that the many experts on here could possibly help in pointing out a few solid recommendations of possible 'definitive' recordings of Chopin that i am interested in!. ..also mybe some Liszt as well.
I have a love of classical music but have only recently started to seriously collect cd's and would love to put together a great library over time.
I would like to start by buying some Chopin works but would like to know what would the best recordings be to get?.. 3 artists come to mind, Pollini, Howrowitz and Krystian Zimerman, All are great but is there any recommendations of their best recording to get??..

I would like to get all of Chopin's works with the best recording of each if possible!.
Some have suggested that the young Pollini and young Zimmermans cd's are excellent compared to their later versions, but some say all of Zimerman's recording are fantastic and are an excellent choice in any cd library!.. did any of these artists record a complete Chopin set?? and where would I be able to purchase it?
many thanks for all replies.
Fergus


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## Aramis

Pollini is best for Nocturnes and Etudes, Zimerman for Ballades (on CD together with fantaisie and barcarolle) and Horowitz... FOR NOTHING AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

Hi, many thanks for your reply and information.. so you would not rate Horowitz for much then??.. Are there any specific recordings you would recommend?
thanks again.


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## Aramis

Horowitz is great pianist and at some point you will definitely have to check him out, but for beginning stick to Zimerman, Pollini and Argerich in cases of both Chopin and Liszt.

Just get these:


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

Hi there, many thanks for your recommendations on which recordings to get..I will try to get these recordings asap. I will take on board what you say about Horowitz!. Ihave never heard of Martha Argerich ..but I take it that she is top drawer as a pianist etc and will try to get her works as well.
thanks again for your help.


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## Guest

A great all around Chopin pianist is Rubinstein. I have a multi-disc recording of Chopin's works from him, and it is excellent. After him, Pollini is my top pick. His recordings of the Etudes, Nocturnes, and Polonaises are excellent. I have multiple recordings from Pollini covering a variety of composers, and enjoy them all.


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## Clov

http://www.talkclassical.com/11289-advice-some-potential-purchases.html

This is a recent topic I started which should give you quite a lot of info.

I can't recommend highly enough the 2 Argerich cds I got as a result of this - amazing. I am not quite so thrilled with the Pollini Polonaises, but would suggest Arrau, and especially at the price, is well worth buying for the Nocturnes. Cortot is a nice, and again budget, addition to Argerich's preludes, and whilst I will certainly buy the Rubinstein original jacket collection in time, the naxos Polonaises cd of his I bought is fantastic for now.


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## Ukko

Aramis said:


> Horowitz is great pianist and at some point you will definitely have to check him out, but for beginning stick to Zimerman, Pollini and Argerich in cases of both Chopin and Liszt.J


Not for Liszt; that would be Cziffra and several Russians.


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## Aramis

> Not for Liszt; that would be Cziffra and several Russians.


Argerich's Sonata in B is highly praised and considered as definitive even here on this forum. Pollini's recording isn't worse.


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

*Pollini, Zimmerman, Horowitz*

Hi, thank you to all for you comments and recommendations. I have bought 4 cd's lastnight from all your recommendations and look forward to listening to them..I got Pollini Nocturnes, Zimmerman 4 Balladen, Zimmerman Chopin Piano Concertos 1 &2 with Carlo Maria Giulini conducting, and Zimmerman Liszt Piano Concertos 1 & 2 with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I hope to get more later today especially the Legendary Recordings by Martha Argerich and Pollini Etudes. I have heard alot of conflicting opinions regarding Rubenstein in his interpretations of pieces etc, would he be an excellent addition to my music collection or as Aramis has suggested like Horowitz, should I leave him to later?
Also has any of the greats here, Pollini,Zimmeman,Argerich etc tackled Rachmaninov? if so is there a recording/s that would be recomended?
thank you to all again for your help and advice.
Fergus


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## Air

CRIMSONDRAGON said:


> Also has any of the greats here, Pollini,Zimmeman,Argerich etc tackled Rachmaninov?


Horowitz: 3rd Piano Concerto with Reiner or Ormandy (1978) conducting.
Argerich: 3rd Piano Concerto with Chailly conducting.


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## StlukesguildOhio

A great all around Chopin pianist is Rubinstein. I have a multi-disc recording of Chopin's works from him, and it is excellent. After him, Pollini is my top pick. His recordings of the Etudes, Nocturnes, and Polonaises are excellent. I have multiple recordings from Pollini covering a variety of composers, and enjoy them all.

I agree. His Nocturnes are essential.


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## Sid James

I love Horowitz's Chopin - very atmospheric. I'm no expert but I have enjoyed the following disc which mainly consists of classic recordings done in the 1930's. The main works are the Liszt _Sonata in B minor_ & _Funerailles_, but he also plays a range of etudes & mazurkas from Chopin as well as one nocturne and impromptu each, and two works by Schumann and one of the etudes of Debussy which has to be heard to be believed. The sound is not too bad for recordings of this vintage. Love him or loathe him, Horowitz was a great pianist, but he has to be taken on his own terms...


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

Thank you Andre for getting back to me with your information. I have only one Horowitz cd in my small collection..that of his concert in Moscow and it is magnificent playing. I am not a pianist but rather a professional brass player but appreciate the immense talent needed to play the keyboard as he and the other greats mentioned here do!!..its fantastic playing and beautiful to listen too. 
One question has come to mind over the last few days.. is that although i want to have the best recording possible etc of selected pieces played by certain artists, is it good advice to buy certain recording for their historical context etc??.. I like to have complete sets or recording of artists im interested in but is their anywhere where I can find a complete listing of all Chopins work as well as Lizst's that has been recorded? or has the like of Martha Agerich or Zimmerman recorded complete works of Chopin or Lizst?
appreciate your help.
Fergus


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## Air

Generally, going for the whole deal usually isn't an effective strategy. You are sacrificing quality recordings of masterpieces for an overwhelming quantity of mediocrity. But this doesn't mean there _aren't_ large box sets out there that contain both _quality_ and _quantity_. It's rare, of course, because very few of the great pianists felt the need to be "completists", and simply played what they wanted to play, recorded what they wanted to record. And many of them died even before the era of modern recording technology began.

*Josef Hofmann*, for example, is commonly regarded as one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century, yet he only managed to recorded a couple discs worth of music total - much less than many of the mediocre talents today - and most of it in atrocious sound. But recordings like this are priceless:






To be honest, the only significant pianist I know of to have recorded all of Chopin's works is *Garrick Ohlsson*, and he does it quite nicely. Here's the big box if you're interested: http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Complete-Works-Box-Set/dp/B001F4YGUA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1294277710&sr=8-6

For Liszt I would recommend the following box sets:

"the Liszt reincarnated" ala *Georges Cziffra*: http://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Oeuvres-pour-Piano-Franz/dp/B00005IA06/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294282930&sr=1-1
... and the equally good (and quite complementary to Cziffra) box of *Jorge Bolet*: http://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Piano-Works-Box-Set/dp/B00005ND3L/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294281896&sr=1-1

*Leslie Howard* is renowned for having played and recorded all of Liszt's solo piano works (94 cds), but as far as I know, there isn't a big set yet. Individual discs may be tedious to buy - but Howard's Liszt project is a legend, and his recordings are top-notch too, though sometimes criticized. I myself have not gone to this extreme yet of buying his entire cycle - but who knows, someday I may come to it too.

*Alfed Cortot* is my favorite Chopinist and the Chopinist all other Chopinists look up to: http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Oeuvres-pour-Piano-Works/dp/B000002SBV/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294279486&sr=1-3

There's also *Artur Rubinstein*, as many people have already mentioned, and this box set is a steal at this price: http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Collection-Box-Set/dp/B000026OW3/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294281034&sr=1-1
_
Beware though_ - no doubt, Rubinstein's Chopin is one of the overall best but the recordings included here are mostly from his later period - less virile, quite old and often very predictable. The early recordings featured, which make up only one CD in the entire 11 disc set, are unfortunately in mono sound - not even good mono. But it's a good starter set, with some good, solid work and a good alternative if you don't want to dig for individual recordings by the pianist (though some of the great ones _are_ included, like the _Nocturnes_).

Happy listening!


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## PianoCoach

Horowitz performance of Liszt transcriptions of Schubert's Staendchen and Soiree de Vienne are excellent. Horowitz, always the expressive pianist, fits well with these two pieces.

I also agree that Rubinstein's Chopin Nocturnes are excellent. He made two recordings of the set. I prefer the more mellow, slower, expressive versions that he recorded in later life.


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

*Cortot, Agerich, Zimerman,Pollini*

Thank you very much for your detailed reply!..its very much appreciated and very interesting reading!. I had heard the name of Cortot being mentioned here but didn't know much about him or how he stood up against the likes of Pollini, Agerich, Horowitz and the like..but as you say all chopiniasts look up to him, so I will do some listening research on him.. I take it his recordings are worth getting!???  and could you recomend which ones?

Yes I agree with you..buying a complete set in one go is often a sacrifice in terms of recording quality or even artists quality etc, so I will endeavour to buy single disc recording of the best of each work I can get!. a slow task i know but it will be worth it.

If I can ask..How good is/was Martha Agerich compared to the likes of Zimerman, Pollini, Horowitz, Glen Gould or even Cortot??.. A lot of people here and on youtube etc describe her as the greatest pianist of the 20th Century!!.. I have listened to her most of yesterday and am very impressed with her playing..and an artist whos work I would like to aquire..
But to build a quality set of Chopin and Liszts work should I buy separate recordings with Zimerman, Agerich, Cortot and Pollini to achieve the best recording of each work? and also as you say the best listening experience!!??.
many thanks for your help with this.
regards
Fergus


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## Lipatti

I would personally also recommend the Deutsche Grammophon-issue of Michelangeli performing Chopin (10 mazurkas, the first ballad, the second scherzo and I believe a prelude). Absolutely brilliant.

For the Chopin etudes and Liszt's B minor sonata, Pollini (who's already been mentioned to you) is excellent enough. But I would also definitely check out Richter's live recordings if you're interested!


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## Air

CRIMSONDRAGON said:


> I had heard the name of Cortot being mentioned here but didn't know much about him or how he stood up against the likes of Pollini, Agerich, Horowitz and the like..but as you say all chopiniasts look up to him, so I will do some listening research on him.. I take it his recordings are worth getting!???  and could you recomend which ones?


The Box Set I mentioned in my previous post is a very good start. Warning, though, if you are easily put off by wrong notes, Cortot may not be the guy for the job. Personally, I'm always so far drawn into the pianist's musicality that a few scattered misses here and there are almost negligible to my ears!



CRIMSONDRAGON said:


> If I can ask..How good is/was Martha Agerich compared to the likes of Zimerman, Pollini, Horowitz, Glen Gould or even Cortot??.. A lot of people here and on youtube etc describe her as the greatest pianist of the 20th Century!!.. I have listened to her most of yesterday and am very impressed with her playing..


There are very few modern pianists that came claim the same sort of aura and charisma that Martha Argerich possesses. What sets Argerich apart in my mind is the tradition that her playing reflects - the romantic tradition in which all the greats of the past were brought up in. In an era of predominantly modern pianists, Argerich is one of the last to carry the torch of Romanticism, and in her, the culture of individualism in which the pianist is the hero of the music still burns bright.

Argerich's kind of romanticism is not the soft, delicate touch that one would find in the playing of a woman like Guiomar Novaes. Instead, we get a brash, confident sound, brilliant, virtuosic, and always a bright, golden tone. No other pianist on the planet can produce the same brilliant tone as Argerich can, and it is this brilliance that critics, connoisseurs, and listeners alike swoon over. A Brendel or Pollini performance can sound tame next to one of hers. I think as far as concerti are concerned, she's one of the best to turn to. I even know a few people who refer to her regularly as "the concerto queen". Rightly so, IMHO, but I wouldn't necessarily take her over Cortot or Horowitz, or even Pollini.



CRIMSONDRAGON said:


> But to build a quality set of Chopin and Liszts work should I buy separate recordings with Zimerman, Agerich, Cortot and Pollini to achieve the best recording of each work? and also as you say the best listening experience!!?


It's ultimately up to you, but one good strategy is to supplement a couple box sets with a large number of individual recordings. Though box sets are cheap, and provide a broader scope than individual recordings do, I often find that it is the dearly bought single CDs that are most close to one's heart - the "jewels" of my collection if you may. But there's quite a few jewels to be found in box sets too, for example the one of Cziffra playing Liszt is a goldmine of jewels from beginning to end. I think the most important thing is to know what you're buying, so the "deal" you get doesn't ultimately disappoint you...

By the way, the Michelangeli CD that Lipatti recommended is a desert island CD. The op. 45 Prelude and the op. 23 Ballade are tops for me.


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## toucan

The only argument against listening to Horowitz at any time is that his playing was so above even that of other great pianists, that when you are under his sway even the best of the rest seem flat, unimaginative and uninspired!

But then, why should you care. Pianism that is as great as Horowitz's is enough to fulfill the most recalcitrant listeners, for several life times.

In his youth (1920's/early 30's) Horowitz focused too much on being brilliant (there was a purpose to it, he wanted to accumulate the money to escape Soviet Russia and get settled in the West).

In his old age Horowitz kinda loss his touch, his ability to make that percussive instrument, the piano, sing.

In between he is out of this world, his touch, his colour, his emotive palette, his uncanny ability to realize his intention, his devillish freedom, his depth of affect, his spirituality - but also his balance, his classicism if you will, as Horowitz never loses sense of the overall structure of a piece, no matter how wild he gets in the negotiation of its details. You cannot go wrong by listening to the recordings he made from the forties to the early to mid-seventies, including the _Horowitz Plays Chopin_ series on Columbia Masterworks (three CD's), and the _Horowitz Collection_ on RCA Victor (also three CD's).

If you don't mind the scratchy sound of old recordings, try the two Chopin recordings by Paderewski on PEARL. On volume I there are two personal favorites, the Nocturne in F major op 15/1, excrutiating, the sense of loss it conveys - and the more famous Berceuse op 57, which Paderewski plays like Chopin taught his students to play his music, the left hand mainting a strady, mechanical, metronomical rhythm, like Bach, the right hand getting no more freedom than it can steal from the left hand.

If you like Paderewski then you will probably also like the many goodies published by the Dante company, including Josef Levine, Benno Moiseivitch, and Vladimir de Pachmann.

Also try the Alfred Cortot box-set. He was just as good on Chopin as on Schumann and Debussy.


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## Air

toucan said:


> benno moiseivitch


++++++++++1

Besides Pearl and Dante, there is also the relatively cheaper Naxos Historical.


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## CRIMSONDRAGON

HI,
Sorry for late response but was in hospital for a few days!. Many thanks to everyone for their help, advice and comments, it's greatly appreciated and I have made quite a few purchases on all your recommendations. I must admit, Air, I agree with your assessment of Argerich and you can always be assured of a passionate and sometime fiery performance and your indeed right that she is does carry the torch for romanticism and most do sound tame against her!!.. I got her live performance of the Rach 3 with Chailly and it it is stunning and full of emotion and of course technical brilliance!!.
Toucan many thanks for your comments on Horowitz!.. I would agree with you on alot of points. Although I am not a pianist i can appreciate great talent and expression coupled with passion and brilliance and Horowitz indeed had it all in the periods you have mentioned. I have only a few cd's of him and he always produced polished performances full of deep emotion and I will try and get some recordings of his earlier performances from the 40's onwards!.
thanks again to all for your help with this.
Fergus


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## Ravellian

I do not recommend either Rubinstein or Michelangeli for Chopin.. their playing style is much too intellectual for this style of music. Chopin is meant to be sentimental..

Of course, Horowitz is highly recommended. His playing style is unique, brilliant, dazzling, and _very_ emotional, and fits excellently with Chopin's compositional writing.


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## krystian

Dear friends, if anyones has krystian zmerman's rare recordings (i mean which aren't upload in youtube & any public website) pleas connectme in private thank you


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## CypressWillow

Rubinstein for me. I highly recommend him. 
The others mentioned here already are also wonderful, in my world the more Chopin you listen to, the better.
Only one whose Chopin I simply abhor: Horowitz.


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## Crassus

Pollini lacks the delicacy to play certain preludes and nocturnes.

He is good for concertos and sonatas, but i would recommend you either Cortot or Rubinstein for the preludes/nocturnes.


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## DavidA

Horowitz was one the all time greats in music that suited him. But be selective. There is a very good box by Membran of 10 CDs which is a good introduction to the great man. There was something (almost) diabolical about his laying that grips you. 
There is a Rach 3 I have with Barbirolli of fantastic virtuosity and lousy recording quality.
The best modern Rach 3 is by Argerich in a live concert with Chailly. Listen and be amazed.
Argerich also recorded a live Chopin 1 at Lugano which is the best I have ever heard. Her Liszt sonata is fantastic, but there are other notable ones by Richter, Horowitz, Cziffra, Rubinstein, Cherkassky, etc..


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## DavidA

CypressWillow said:


> Only one whose Chopin I simply abhor: Horowitz.


Horowitz has this effect on some people. Maybe an allergy? Thankfully it's not one I suffer from.


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## DavidA

For a different take on Liszt try Rubinstein's Liszt album on RCA.

The old boy couldn't half play!


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## Blake

I've really enjoyed Abbey Simon's Chopin Nocturnes for some time.


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## YiQue

Thanks for sharing


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## Copperears

Funny nobody mentions Ashkenazy; I find his performances quite wonderful.


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## Antony

Always love Artur Rubinstein's Chopin, especially his Nocturnes.

How's about Evgeny Kissin? Here he plays Andane Spianato & Grande polonaise


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## Vaneyes

For *Chopin*, I don't have anything by the illustrious three pianists the OP mentions. Rather...*Argerich, Pogorelich, ABM, Demidenko, Barenboim, Tharaud, Ts'ong, Gavrilov*. Just sayin'. :tiphat:


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## moody

CRIMSONDRAGON said:


> Hi, many thanks for your reply and information.. so you would not rate Horowitz for much then??.. Are there any specific recordings you would recommend?
> thanks again.


Take no notice,Horowitz is a stand alone genius,buy anything he does regardless.

I've answered an ancient post !!!


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## KenOC

moody said:


> Take no notice, Horowitz is a stand alone genius, buy anything he does regardless.


Durn tootin'! I'm saving my pennies for his Well-tempered Clavier!


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## moody

KenOC said:


> Durn tootin'! I'm saving my pennies for his Well-tempered Clavier!


Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, edit. Buy everything he DID . Happy now ?
But as I've mentioned before re: another artist, he made a fantastic recording of the Ill Tempered Clavicle---it's becoming quite popular now.


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## BurningDesire

Pollini is one of my favorite performers all around. Spectacular Chopin performances (even when I'm not a huge fan of a couple interpretations, it still sounds great) and other Romantic/Classical pieces, and at the same time amazing performer of Modernist pieces. Check out his playing of Boulez and Stockhausen. Some of the best playing of these composers out there.


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## DeepR

The etudes by Pollini may be near "perfect"' renditions but the sound of the recording is very harsh and clinical. I prefer a bit more warmth.

Horowitz' Chopin can be charming, but the ballades for example are downright awful. No grace and elegance whatsoever. Go to Zimerman for the Ballades.

I'd recommend Rubinstein for the Nocturnes as well.


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## Blake

Pollini is most excellent. He's much more direct, and not overly sentimental. And I quite admire this approach, as I'm not overly fond of emotional thickness.


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## hpowders

Horowitz never recorded WTC. Scarlatti was as far back as he went.

You want good Horowitz, then Clementi is your man!


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## Ukko

hpowders said:


> Horowitz never recorded WTC. Scarlatti was as far back as he went.
> 
> You want good Horowitz, then Clementi is your man!




Horowitz playing the WTC - the notion works to exercise the imagination. But - it must be 'live' performance.

Example:

Start with Arthur Loesser's Book I (notable among other things for what I choose to term 'voice revelations').

Rats. Good luck with that, I got nothing. Dammit, I sort of hoped something was going on in there.

Just in case it helps to be philosophically prepared, you whippersnappers... there may come a time when things stop going on.


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## hpowders

Ukko said:


> Horowitz playing the WTC - the notion works to exercise the imagination. But - it must be 'live' performance.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Start with Arthur Loesser's Book I (notable among other things for what I choose to term 'voice revelations').
> 
> Rats. Good luck with that, I got nothing. Dammit, I sort of hoped something was going on in there.
> 
> Just in case it helps to be philosophically prepared, you whippersnappers... there may come a time when things stop going on.


I never respected Horowitz because of his limited repertoire choices, the complete opposite of why I love Sviatoslav Richter.


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## SONNET CLV

Welcome to the Forum, CRIMSONDRAGON.
I expected you'd be asking for Bruckner recommendations.
In any case, Earl Wild plays some mean sounding Liszt. As does Jorge Bolet.
If my Chopin comes from the hands of Artur Rubinstein, I'm generally satisfied.
But Martha Argerich is my fave, whatever she plays.
Enjoy your stay here.


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## Ukko

hpowders said:


> I never respected Horowitz because of his limited repertoire choices, the complete opposite of why I love Sviatoslav Richter.


My impression is that those two had much different attitudes both toward public performance and toward piano music. It seemed to me that Horowitz wanted a connection with the music that he could project to the audience as a sort of chemical compound - Horowitz+music - not just interpretation. That sought after chemistry limited the repertoire to the suitable compounds. I think Richter was limited only by what he thought he could successfully - to his standards - interpret.

Both of them super musicians.


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