# Our top ten 20th century opera favorites



## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Let's see which are our favorites among operas written in the 20th century (i.e., from January, 1st, 1901 to December, 31st, 2000). We can name up to ten operas.

This will be my list:

Parisina (Mascagni)
Die Tote Stadt (Korngold)
Káťa Kabanová (Janáček)
Turandot (Puccini)
Lulu (Berg)
The Turn of the Screw (Britten)
Dialogues des Carmélites (Poulenc)
Saint François d'Assise (Messiaen)
Luci mie traditrici (Sciarrino)
L'amour de loin (Saariaho)


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

1. The Consul Menotti)
2. Dialogues des Carmelites (Poulenc)
3. Tosca (Puccini)
4. Madama Butterfly (Puccini)
5. Fanciulla del West (Puccini)
6. The Saint of Bleecker Street (Puccini)
7. Il Tabarro (Puccini)
8. Suor Angelica(Puccini)
9. Gianni Schicchi (Puccini)
10.Turandot (Puccini)


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> 1. The Consul Menotti)
> 2. Dialogues des Carmelites (Poulenc)
> 3. Tosca (Puccini)
> 4. Madama Butterfly (Puccini)
> ...


Who's this guy Puccini? And surely Menotti for The Saint!!

No Richard Strauss, no Benjamin Britten, no Dmitri Shostakovich, no Philip Glass, no hope for humanity. 

Surely Menotti for The Saint.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Strictly speaking, "Tosca" belongs to the 19th century, instead of the 20th, but we can make an exception here.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

1. Bluebeard's Castle (Bartòk)
2. Dialogues des Carmelites (Poulenc)
3. Wozzeck (Berg)
4. Peter Grimes (Britten)
5. Moses und Aron (Schoenberg)
6. St. François d'Assise (Messiaen)
7. La fanciulla del West (Puccini)
8. Le grand macabre (Ligeti)
9. Nixon in China (Adams)
10. Lear (Reimann)


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Firstly Schigolch, thanks for starting a thread that doesn't concern Wagner or Callas. 

I'm reluctant to include Puccini in my list, as undoubtedly he would dominate, and therefore not throw further light on this potentially interesting thread. When I first 'converted' to opera in 1988, even Verdi, at least Falstaff, was less than a 100 years old. Now the last century would pretty much mean 'post WWI', and I guess that's how I'll approach my list, which I'm about to do.

An immediate observation on the lists so far... no Richard Strauss!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> 6. The Saint of Bleecker Street (*Puccini*)


OK, so Menotti was neo-Puccini, but... 

1. Peter Grimes - Britten
2. Cunning Little Vixen - Janacek
3. Sir John in Love - Vaughan Williams
4. Turandot - Puccini
5. Gianni Schicchi - Puccini
6. Midsummer Marriage - Tippett (for the music, not the poorly written libretto)
7. Salome - Strauss
8-10 TBD


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Here's my non-Puccini, post WW1 list, and maximum of 1 per composer. I'm sorry that there's nothing from the past 59 years, and appreciate this is due my lack of knowledge. However I _don't_ apologize for not including anything by Glass or Adams.

1. Nerone (Boito) 1924
2. Ariadne Auf Naxos (R. Strauss)* 1916
3. The Cunning Little Vixen (Janacek)* 1923
4. Dialogues des Carmelites (Poulenc)* 1957
5. Peter Grimes (Britten)* 1945
6. Wozzeck (Berg)* 1925
7. Sir John in Love (Walton) 1929
8. Porgy and Bess (Gershwin) 1935
9. Bluebeard's Castle (Bartok)* 1918
10. The Fiery Angel (Prokofiev)* 1955

* I've seen live, the other three I'd love to. I'm targeting Porgy and Bess at La Scala next season. Sir John in Love is a fun listen, and hope it will get another outing in the UK. As for Nerone... I live in hope.

By coincidence, my opera-going in the next couple of weeks includes Oedipe (Enescu) in London, The Greek Passion (Martinu) in Essen, and Juliette (Martinu) in Berlin. I'm enjoying my CD homework on these three, but they seem unable to break into my top ten.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

1. Salome
2. Elektra
3. Peter Grimes
4. Lulu
5. Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk
6. Death in Venice
7. A Midsummer Night's Dream
8. Einstein on the Beach
9. Die Tode Stadt
10. Die Frau Ohne Schatten

But this is by no means definitive. I want to include Capriccio, Turn of the Screw, Der Rosenkavalier usw.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> 1. Salome
> 2. Elektra
> 3. Peter Grimes
> 4. Lulu
> ...


And not even a nod to your namesake?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> And not even a nod to your namesake?


Ok. I could substitute Duke Bluebeards Castle for Salome but I would also now need to sub Rusalka for Einstein or Midsummer Night's Dream. It's getting too complicated now. I am off to listen to a little relaxing music by Cecil Taylor!


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Great topic! This is mine (hope I got the time correct)

1) Pelléas et Mélisande (1902)
2) Jenůfa (1904)
3) Salome (1905)
4) The Cunning Little Vixen (1924)
5) L'enfant et les sortilèges (1920)
6) Dialogues des carmélites (1956)
7) Wozzeck (1922)
8) Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District (1932)
9) Peter Grimes (1945)
10) Lear (1978)

Honorable mention:
The Devils of Loudun ,Saint François d'Assise , War and Peace, Billy Budd, King Roger, Bluebeard’s Castle, Moses und Aron, Vanessa and of course, all of signore Puccini


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## WaterRat (May 19, 2015)

1 Elektra (Strauss)
2 Pelleas et Melisande (Debussy)
3 The Fiery Angel (Prokofiev)
4 Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk (Shostakovich)
5 Wozzeck (Berg)
6 Madame Butterfly (Puccini)
7 The Rake’s Progress (Stravinsky)
8 Lulu (Berg)
9 Rusalka (Dvorak)
10 Akhnaten (Glass)


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

1. Antonín Dvořák- _Rusalka_- 1901
2. Debussy- _Pelléas et Mélisande_- 1902
3. Puccini- _Madama Butterfly_- 1904
4. Richard Strauss- _Salome_- 1905
5. Richard Strauss- _Elektra_- 1909
6. Béla Bartók- _Bluebeard's Castle_- 1911
7. Richard Strauss- _Der Rosenkavalier_- 1911
8. Leoš Janáček- _The Cunning Little Vixen_- 1924
9. Puccini- _Turandot_- 1924/26
10. Britten- _The Turn of the Screw_- 1954

Runners-up would include Stravinsky's _Le Rossignol_ (1914), Korngold's _Die tote Stadt_ (1920), Shostakovitch's _Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District_ & _The Nose_, Franz Lehár's _Die lustige Witwe_ & _Das Land des Lächelns_, Janáček's _The Excursions of Mr. Broucek, From the House of the Dead_, & _Jenůfa_, several other Britten operas, and _Florencia en el Amazonas_ by Daniel Catán.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. Antonín Dvořák- _Rusalka_- 1901
> 2. Debussy- _Pelléas et Mélisande_- 1902
> 3. Puccini- _Madama Butterfly_- 1904
> 4. Richard Strauss- _Salome_- 1905
> ...


Yes, they are amazing (indeed most of Janackek's after Jenufa are)! I feel a bit uncomfortable leaving them out of top 10.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> 1. Nerone (Boito) 1924


Hmm ... Boito died in 1918  The opera was completed after his death and premiered in 1924 but Boito had been working on it since 1877 so not really 20th century.

Also Sir John in Love is Vaughan Williams not Walton.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

I haven't heard any opera by Britten, Puccini or Janacek in full, so this will probably change, but right now (in rough order of preference):

Debussy - Pelléas et Mélisande
Berg - Wozzeck
Messiaen - Saint François d'Assise
Sciarrino - Luci mie traditrici
Poulenc - Dialogues des Carmélites
Berg - Lulu
Bartók - Bluebeard's Castle
Ravel - L'enfant et les sortilèges
Strauss - Elektra
Schoenberg - Moses und Aron


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

After seeing some of the lists there is no way I could come up with just ten.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Rusalka (Dvorak)
Die Tote Stadt (Korngold)
Káťa Kabanová (Janáček)
Turandot (Puccini)
Tosca (Puccini)
Madama Butterfly (Puccini)
The Rake’s Progress (Stravinsky) 
Vanessa ( Barber)
“The Dangerous Liaisons" (Conrad Susa’s opera)
Le Coq d'Or(Rimsky Korsakov)


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

From reviewing the lists I saw some operas that I am unfamiliar with that I have to check out.

So I thought I would come up with ten of my favorites that have not been mentioned yet including two _Moby Dick's_.

Sallenen _Palista_
Adams _Dr. Atomic_ Seen live production
Blomdahl _Anaria_
Britten _Billy Budd_ Seen live production
Dallapiccola _Ulisse_
Floyd _Susannah_ Seen live production
Heggie _Moby Dick_ Seen live production
Hindemith _Mathis der Mahler_
Rautvarra _Vincent_
Westergaard _Moby Dick_

Sorry if I mentioned one that has already been mentioned.

Note: Messed up. Two composed after 2000, Heggie _Moby Dick_ and _Dr. Atomic_.

Substituting:

Barber: _Anthony and Cleopatra_
Menotti: _The Last Savage_ I saw a live production with the Santa Fe Opera. It was great. Sadly are no recordings of it.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

arpeggio said:


> After seeing some of the lists there is no way I could come up with just ten.


I see you already have. Yay!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Becca said:


> Hmm ... Boito died in 1918  The opera was completed after his death and premiered in 1924 but Boito had been working on it since 1877 so not really 20th century.
> 
> Also Sir John in Love is Vaughan Williams not Walton.


You're not going to take my Nerone away from me! 

Walton, Vaughan Williams, Elgar... even in the UK we often get their works confused.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm not a list maker, but some composers that could be included might be: Strauss, Berg, Schoenberg, Korngold, Schreker, Bartok, Debussy, Ravel, Britten, Tippett, Henze, Sciarrino, Zimmermann, Glanert, Eotvos

And I'd like to see someone mention the Stockhausen Licht cycle because it's amazing


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> Who's this guy Puccini? And surely Menotti for The Saint!!
> 
> No Richard Strauss, no Benjamin Britten, no Dmitri Shostakovich, no Philip Glass, no hope for humanity.
> 
> Surely Menotti for The Saint.


A thump on my noggin for that gaff on Puccini vs. Menotti in "The Saint..." an obvious oversight.

And the question was "what operas" not what composers. Jack comes before Richie, Benny, Dimi and Phil in my book.

PS. From Kobbe's: "Premiere at Teotro Constanza, Rome 14 January 1900."


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## Bardamu (Dec 12, 2011)

Only from italian composer and with no order (of course there are many many beautiful operas composed in that century by non-italian composers such as Saint François d'Assise):

Torneo Notturno (Gian Francesco Malipiero)
La fiamma (Ottorino Respighi)
Il dibuk (Lodovico Rocca)
Re Lear (Vito Frazzi)
Le astuzie di Bertoldo (Luigi Ferrari Trecate)
La pulce d'oro (Giorgio Federico Ghedini)
Il prigioniero (Luigi Dallapiccola)
Il contrabbasso (Valentino Bucchi)
Don Perlimplin (Bruno Maderna)
Doktor Faustus (Giacomo Manzoni)

EDIT:
I decided to remove Puccini, Mascagni because why not 

To tell you the truth I would have liked to add some operas by Pietro Mascagni, Ferruccio Busoni, Franco Alfano, Valentino Bucchi, Antonio Veretti, Guido Pannain, Azio Corghi, Flavio Testi and others.



Becca said:


> Hmm ... Boito died in 1918  The opera was completed after his death and premiered in 1924 but Boito had been working on it since 1877 so not really 20th century.
> 
> Also Sir John in Love is Vaughan Williams not Walton.


Depend on the definition.

I'm just glad that Boito's Nerone get recognition since it is a great Opera.


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

In no particular order:

Elektra
Rusalka
L'enfant et les sortilèges
Pelléas et Mélisande
Le Voix humaine
Wozzeck
Die Frau ohne Schatten
Sour Angelica
Der Rosenkavalier
Jenufa


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Berg: Wozzeck
Debussy: Pelleas et Melisande (assuming it counts?)
Stravinsky: The Rake's Progress
Schoenberg: Moses und Aron
Berg: Lulu
Janacek: From the House of the Dead
Britten: The Turn of the Screw
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Messiaen: St Francois d'Assise
Adams: Nixon in China

Not in any specific order, but a general ranking of my tastes all the same, and certainly with those first two on top.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes, of course _Pelléas et Mélisande_ counts, as it was premiered in 1902.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

13 operas has received at least four mentions. They are:

Wozzeck - 7 mentions
Pelléas et Mélisande - 6
Dialogues des Carmélites - 6
Turandot - 5
Peter Grimes - 5
Lulu - 5
Elektra - 5
A kékszakállú herceg vára - 4
Saint François d'Assise - 4
Salome - 4
Rusalka - 4
Příhody lišky bystroušky - 4
Madama Butterfly - 4


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> Who's this guy Puccini? And surely Menotti for The Saint!!
> 
> No Richard Strauss, no Benjamin Britten, no Dmitri Shostakovich, no Philip Glass, no hope for humanity.
> 
> Surely Menotti for The Saint.


Menotti for The Saint?


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Turandot 
Billy Budd
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Il Trittico 
Kashchey the Immortal
Tosca
Akhnaten 
Satyagraha
Salome
Daphne
Pelleas et Melisande


What really complicates this is Massenet. 
Roma
Amadis
Don Quichotte 
Cherubin
Griselidis
Ariane


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## Aldarion (Feb 9, 2016)

A list of ten is too restrictive, but let's try anyway:

Das Wunder der Heliane (Korngold)
Jenůfa (Janáček)
Die Gezeichneten (Schreker)
Turandot (Puccini)
Eine florentinische Tragödie (Zemlinsky)
Dialogues des Carmélites (Poulenc)
Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk (Shostakovich)
Salome (R.Strauss)
Elektra (R.Strauss)
Król Roger (Szymanowski)


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SimonTemplar said:


> Menotti for The Saint?


Post #2 had Puccini down for The Saint of Bleeker Street rather than Menotti. Hence my reference!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

In no particular order:

Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Debussy: Pelleas et Melisande
Puccini: La Fanciulla del West
Puccini: Gianni Schicchi
Dvorak: Rusalka
Britten: Peter Grimes
Szymanowski: King Roger
Enescu: Oedipe
Korngold: Die Tote Stadt
Busoni: Doktor Faust


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## Buoso (Aug 10, 2016)

In order of preference I like them (I can only immediately think of 9 without including Tosca as I haven't seen much 20th century opera and I refuse to split apart Il Trittico on principle ) 
Puccini: Il Trittico 
Puccini: Tosca
Puccini: Madama Butterfly 
Puccini: La Fanciulla Del west
Puccini: Turandot
Puccini: La Rondine
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle 
Strauss: Salome 
Strauss: Ariadne auf Naxos 
Shostakovitch: The Nose

I really wish Bartok had composed more operas as Bluebeard's Castle is a fascinating work. I also wish Puccini had lived long enough to complete Turandot and finalize revisions on La Rondine's third act otherwise these works may be significantly higher fin my personal ranking also more Puccini operas as innovative as Turandot was or another Triptych even close to the quality of the first Triptych would have been amazing.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Buoso said:


> In order of preference I like them (I can only immediately think of 9 without including Tosca as I haven't seen much 20th century opera and I refuse to split apart Il Trittico on principle )
> Puccini: Il Trittico
> Puccini: Tosca
> Puccini: Madama Butterfly
> ...


Die hard Puccini fan, no doubt.


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## Buoso (Aug 10, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Die hard Puccini fan, no doubt.


Well I am not too fond of Edgar and I think Le Villi and Manon Lescaut have serious flaws. However, I do have a copy of all the operas except Edgar on my I-pod...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I haven't listened to nearly enough operas to choose my definitive ten. And many that I enjoy have already been mentioned.

Britten, Janacek, Berg, Schoenberg, Stravinsky, etc... I have a tough time getting through Lulu, but I love Wozzeck. Also like Hindemith's Das Nusch-Nuschi, Mathis Der Maler.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Just in order of premiere:

Debussy - Pelléas et Mélisande
Janáček - Jenůfa
Strauss - Elektra
Bartók - A kékszakállú herceg vára
Berg - Wozzeck
Berg - Lulu
Martinů - Řecké pašije
Glass - Satyagraha
Adams - Nixon in China
Saariaho - L'amour de loin


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Buoso said:


> Well I am not too fond of Edgar and I think Le Villi and Manon Lescaut have serious flaws. However, I do have a copy of all the operas except Edgar on my I-pod...


Le Villi certainly has, one the other hand Manon Lescaut, is sublime .


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## cybernaut (Feb 6, 2021)

This is a very interesting and useful thread for me. I'm a novice when it comes to opera, even though my father is a life-long opera fanatic. (He took me to see Pavarotti, Bergonzi, Dessay, Hvorostovsky and some others sing.) There are so many pieces here that I've never even heard OF, much less heard. I will be exploring a lot based on what people have chosen.

I will say that when it comes to 20th Century music, I'm much more of a fan of minimalism than I am of the Schoenberg/Berg 12-tone school. I'm curious about the works by Janacek, Strauss, Dvorak, Bartok and Menotti that people have chosen.

Thank you all for your posts.


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## AlexD (Nov 6, 2011)

Two I've liked - The Rose & Fall of the city of Mahoganny and Jerry Springer, the Opera


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

1. Les dialogues des carmelites, Poulenc. 
2. Oedipus Rex, Stravinsky. 
3. The tale of the invisible city of Kitezh and a maiden Fevronia, Rimski-Kórsakov. 
4. The fiery angel, Prokófiev. 
5. Die Frau ohne Schatten, Strauss. 
6. Written on skin, Benjamin. 
7. Elektra, Strauss. 
8. Salome, Strauss. 
9. Love to three oranges, Prokófiev. 
10. Prihody liski bistrouski, Janacek.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

AlexD said:


> Two I've liked - The Rose & Fall of the city of Mahoganny and Jerry Springer, the Opera


I think you'll find it's "Rise and Fall", as in _Aufstieg und Fall der Stadt Mahoganny. _


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

It doesn't look as if I've come up with a list yet, but I have a feeling that if I did, the majority would have been written in the first half of the twentieth century.
My candidates that have been written since 1950 would include *Billy Budd*, *Gloriana*, *The Turn of the Screw* and *Dialogues des Carmélites*, but I'd have a much harder time confining myself to ten from the first half of the century, which incudes operas by Puccini, Strauss, Janáček, not to mention *Pelléas et Mélisande*, which premiered in 1902. Twenty years into the 21st century and I can't think of a single one.


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## Zorro1313 (1 mo ago)

Its one thing to hear these operas but to go see them in person? Imagine when they give the opera in English if you dont have an aisle seat and the guy in the seat next to you hogs the elbo. Example Dorian Grey . If you hate your son in law or daughter in law get them tickets to that opera and some of the operas mentioned here. Cant go wrong w Straus Prokofiev. Most were probably trained by those brilliant 19 century teachers. if you could hear La Traviata vs: one of those 20 century ones be honest which would you want to see in person? For Christmas put on Amal & the Night Visitors. Can you imagine had ta 1950's kid listening that opera while the other kid got a Mario Lanza Christmas carol album with a gormet dinner & Cassata cake. The kid that watch Amal got a marginal dinner & a outdated fruit cake for dessert. The Amal opera wasnt too bad compared to some but beauty is in eye of the beholder. We should all give these 20th century a chance. I evenhave many of them but I did give the Carmalite opera to some Cloistered nuns. Merry Christmas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Zorro1313 said:


> Its one thing to hear these operas but to go see them in person? Imagine when they give the opera in English if you dont have an aisle seat and the guy in the seat next to you hogs the elbo. Example Dorian Grey . If you hate your son in law or daughter in law get them tickets to that opera and some of the operas mentioned here. Cant go wrong w Straus Prokofiev. Most were probably trained by those brilliant 19 century teachers. if you could hear La Traviata vs: one of those 20 century ones be honest which would you want to see in person? For Christmas put on Amal & the Night Visitors. Can you imagine had ta 1950's kid listening that opera while the other kid got a Mario Lanza Christmas carol album with a gormet dinner & Cassata cake. The kid that watch Amal got a marginal dinner & a outdated fruit cake for dessert. The Amal opera wasnt too bad compared to some but beauty is in eye of the beholder. We should all give these 20th century a chance. I evenhave many of them but I did give the Carmalite opera to some Cloistered nuns. Merry Christmas.



Actually I'd probably choose *Billy Budd *over *La Traviata*, but mostly, these days, because I'm more likely to see a good performance of the former than the latter.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

ColdGenius said:


> 1. Les dialogues des carmelites, Poulenc.
> 2. Oedipus Rex, Stravinsky.
> 3. The tale of the invisible city of Kitezh and a maiden Fevronia, Rimski-Kórsakov.
> 4. The fiery angel, Prokófiev.
> ...


Actually "Written on Skin" is 21st century, not 20th, but it's ok.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

schigolch said:


> Actually "Written on Skin" is 21st century, not 20th, but it's ok.


I still live in 20th. 😄
Kaja Saariaho's operas are from 21st century too.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

ColdGenius said:


> I still live in 20th. 😄
> Kaja Saariaho's operas are from 21st century too.


Not all.

"L'amour de loin" was premiered in August 2000, that is the 20th century.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

A Quiet Place


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## j.frinzi14 (1 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Actually I'd probably choose *Billy Budd *over *La Traviata*, but mostly, these days, because I'm more likely to see a good performance of the former than the latter.
> [/QUOTE
> Each to his own. Verdis masterpiece the music has so much more to offer but a weak tenor can spoil your fun. Although a local tenor who stays in his range the music can sort of carry him. You could go to a Rossini Barber and the music would keep you awake. And if you take a grandchild the kid will identify w the cartoon musicals those bugs bunny ones are comming back. You knew the opera was in Jeapordy when those 3 tenors were done and many had to
> listen to Cinderella w Bartoli and those Ukrainian Sopranos. Then Samuel Ramey lost his voice and even when the 3 tenors were popular they had Pav sounding like an airplane engine and the other two carried the day. You d probably should see the Nutcracker w a grandchild even a bad cast can’t spoil that.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Zorro1313 said:


> Its one thing to hear these operas but to go see them in person? Imagine when they give the opera in English if you dont have an aisle seat and the guy in the seat next to you hogs the elbo. Example Dorian Grey . If you hate your son in law or daughter in law get them tickets to that opera and some of the operas mentioned here. Cant go wrong w Straus Prokofiev. Most were probably trained by those brilliant 19 century teachers. if you could hear La Traviata vs: one of those 20 century ones be honest which would you want to see in person? For Christmas put on Amal & the Night Visitors. Can you imagine had ta 1950's kid listening that opera while the other kid got a Mario Lanza Christmas carol album with a gormet dinner & Cassata cake. The kid that watch Amal got a marginal dinner & a outdated fruit cake for dessert. The Amal opera wasnt too bad compared to some but beauty is in eye of the beholder. We should all give these 20th century a chance. I evenhave many of them but I did give the Carmalite opera to some Cloistered nuns. Merry Christmas.


I agree with Tsaras - I love Traviata but would pick a more modern opera any day of the week. A poorly sung traviata is not worth seeing, more modern operas can survive without great singers.


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## j.frinzi14 (1 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> I agree with Tsaras - I love Traviata but would pick a more modern opera any day of the week. A poorly sung traviata is not worth seeing, more modern operas can survive without great singers.


Of course


Op.123 said:


> I agree with Tsaras - I love Traviata but would pick a more modern opera any day of the week. A poorly sung traviata is not worth seeing, more modern operas can survive without great singers.


Of course. If you want to sit thru those modern opera have fun. I compare that to eating a healthy pizza that does not taste good but you tell yourself it does. I can’t imagine a Golden Age Composer coming up w that modern stuff. Id stay home w Verdi . The test will be that those modern ones will be forgotten.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

j.frinzi14 said:


> Of course
> 
> Of course. If you want to sit thru those modern opera have fun. I compare that to eating a healthy pizza that does not taste good but you tell yourself it does. I can’t imagine a Golden Age Composer coming up w that modern stuff. Id stay home w Verdi . The test will be that those modern ones will be forgotten.


That’s just ignorance. Everyone is welcome to their preferences but there are plenty of modern operatic masterpieces. I can’t imagine Verdi writing like Saariaho but I can’t imagine Henze writing like Mozart either. I always wonder if the people dismissing modern music realise that if they’d been born 150 years earlier they’d likely be the ones dismissing Wagner and his contemporaries.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Anyway,

O. Respighi: La Fiamma
R. Strauss: Salome
G. Puccini: Turandot
K. Saariaho: L'amour de Loin
H. W. Henze: Das verratene Meer
B. Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
R. Strauss: Elektra
C. Debussy: Pelléas et Mélisande
A. Berg: Lulu
L. Janáček: Jenufa


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

j.frinzi14 said:


> Of course. Id stay home w Verdi . The test will be that those modern ones will be forgotten.


Of course. The Blue Danube will also always survive the "test of time". There are people out there who don't sympathize with Brahms' feelings about the Blue Danube, and value modern opera over Verdi cause Verdi reminds them too much of the Blue Danube.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Martinu - Julietta


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## j.frinzi14 (1 mo ago)

starthrower said:


> Martinu - Julietta


Excellent choice from a Great Composer. To me this guy transitioned for his own creativity and Juliette many that enjoy a creative type both old and modern would go to both.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Temporarily closed for clean up.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I removed a number of posts that were not in line with this site's rules. A reminder:









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Let's keep the discussion civilized. The thread is open again.


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## Zorro1313 (1 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> Of course. The Blue Danube will also always survive the "test of time". There are people out there who don't sympathize with Brahms' feelings about the Blue Danube, and value modern opera over Verdi cause Verdi reminds them too much of the Blue Danube.


There are so many Verdi operas take the chorus from Nabucco Italians played when they were under opression. Most old timers know V E R D I the people said Victor Emmanuel King of Italy. In that Verdi really wrote Nabocco to represnt the struggle of Freedom of Italy for Independence. I have difficulty hearing that Blue Danube in Verdi's music.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

In no particular order:

Berg - Wozzeck
Schönberg - Moses und Aron
Strauss - Elektra
Janáček - Jenufa
Bartók - Bluebeard's Castle
Ravel - L'enfant et les sortilèges
Zemlinsky - Der Zwerg
Schönberg - Erwartung
Strauss - Der Rosenkavalier
Britten - Peter Grimes


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

You can count "Erwartung" as opera for the purposes of this thread. 

"Tosca", however, was premiered in the 19th century, not the 20th.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

schigolch said:


> You can count "Erwartung" as opera for the purposes of this thread.
> 
> "Tosca", however, was premiered in the 19th century, not the 20th.


Thank you, then I'll replace Tosca with Erwartung.


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## Amara (Jan 12, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. Antonín Dvořák- _Rusalka_- 1901
> 2. Debussy- _Pelléas et Mélisande_- 1902
> 3. Puccini- _Madama Butterfly_- 1904
> 4. Richard Strauss- _Salome_- 1905
> ...


Very interesting inclusion of Florencia en el Amazonas! The Met is performing it next season. I'm looking forward to discovering an opera so highly recommended.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Actually, "Florencia" has a lot of things in common with Puccini (mostly) and Strauss.


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