# May I talk tam tam?



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I was listening to Ashkenazy's new Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances with the Philharmonia.

There is something I have to channel out.

The tam tam at the end sounds like, um, the percussion player decided to join in for the fun, but suddenly remembered that Vladimir had told him not to let the sound reverberate beyond the last note.... I made this up of course, but I hope you get what it sounds like -

TAM ~ then suddenly falls into silence, in an unnatural way, like a fade filter *fading out too quickly*.

BTW, in his old Concertgebouw recording Ashkenazy did not let the tam tam reverberate for long either, but that sounds a lot more natural than in this new recording.

The other thing I want to ask is,

Does the score say anything about the tam tam reverberating beyond the last note? Can someone enlighten me please?

But then there are conductors who let the tam tam reverberate beyond the end as if it will last forever........

Sorry I'm perplexed. Have to channel it out! Thank you for listening!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The printed part says: 








From top to bottom: Cymbals - cut short. Bass Drum - cut short. But the Tam tam is given an extra 2 8th notes. But it clearly is not marked "let ring", although that has become a traditional way of playing it.

Now here's the score, heavily marked up by some conductor, who has added the "let ring" notation to the Tam tam part:








I wonder who started that? Maybe Stokowski? Ormandy? Historical recordings would be interesting to listen to. Maybe Ashkenazy just decided to play it as written.

There is a lot of tampering with percussion parts in Rachmaninoff's works, usually to the detriment of the music. In this case, from an audience perspective, letting the Tam tam part die out really is effective.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Thank you so much for explaining in such a concise way! The mystery is now solved!

Out of curiosity, I did a check on all the recordings of Symphonic Dances in my library. Most conductors were in favour, 13 to 7 in fact, of letting the tam tam ring beyond the marked end. Really that's quite a lot.

I know there's an Ormandy recording although I don't have it... but did Stokowski record it? Don't seem to be able to google it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't know if he did. The real crime is that we don't have recordings of the 2nd and 3rd symphonies and some of the other orchestral music, especially the Symphonic Dances, conducted by the composer himself. It would clear up once and for all some of the questions about how to play these marvelous works. My biggest peeve about Rach recordings: that stupid added timpani thwack on the very last note of the first movement. Rach knew what he wanted, and many conductors respect it and play it that way. But too many add a timpani stroke which ruins the sound, at least for me. I've been told that the composer added it when he conducted it, but it sure would be nice to know definitively what's right.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Read that the timpani thwack in the second symphony could be a Russian tradition but don't know if that's true, or did it have anything to do with Rachmaninov himself, but the thwack is so obvious and it does change how it feels at the end of the first movement. Maybe we should all resort to what Thomas Beecham said about the public only remembering the beginning and the end of a piece therefore everything should be OK :lol: ... but not really once you know it's there.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Something that really annoys me at some live performances is when the audience applauds at the end of the 'Symphonic Dances' _before_ the tam-tam has finished ringing. They'd never dare to do the same thing in 'The Planets' before the choir has completely faded away.


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