# Mahler vs Stravisnky



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

From a previous poll.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I voted for The Rite because I know it better(as I have known it for years), but I do not in any way mean to diminish the greatness that is Das Lied. I simply am not as thoroughly versed in it, though I have heard it through a few times and have a sense of its greatness.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Two masterpieces, but I'm going with Stravinsky because I think that DLVDE is a bit too derivative of Wagner.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Allerius said:


> Two masterpieces, but I'm going with Stravinsky because I think that DLVDE is a bit too derivative of Wagner.


I haven't thought about Wagner's straight influence on _Das Lied von Erde_ but it might be that this is the unconscious reason why I like it a lot. On the other hand, I haven't familiarised myself with Stravinsky too much and therefore voted for Mahler.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

A violent depiction of a pagan ritual vs the most poignant farewell to life ever penned?

No contest Gustav beats Igor 6-2 6-4 7-5.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

According to Mahler, the whole Rite of Spring is getting drunk, falling asleep, getting drunk, rinse and repeat. To be fair, apparently Li Po thought the same thing.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Totenfeier said:


> According to Mahler, the whole Rite of Spring is getting drunk, falling asleep, getting drunk, rinse and repeat. To be fair, apparently Li Po thought the same thing.


Clever old Mahler, considering The Rite was premièred two years after he died.

I assume you refer to Das Lied? Then again the description is perversely apt for both pieces....:lol:


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Perhaps the two greatest works of the first quarter of the 20th century. The Rite hits me in a visceral way with its brilliant orchestration and innovation, while Das Lied moves me emotionally. I vote for the latter.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

CnC Bartok said:


> Clever old Mahler, considering The Rite was premièred two years after he died.
> 
> I assume you refer to Das Lied? Then again the description is perversely apt for both pieces....:lol:


I believe he's referring to the Drunkard's ritual from Der Trunkene im Frühling as a "Rite of Spring" of sorts.

I voted Das Lied, but could have gone either way.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The Stravinsky is one of my all-time favourites, one of the rare works that scores 6/6 on the Artrockometer. But the Mahler is my all-time favourite piece of music bar none.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Mahler is boss.

But le Sacre on its own is higher on my list than DLVDE


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I find the two works so different that it is impossible to compare and select one over the other - spoiled voting paper for me!


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> The Stravinsky is one of my all-time favourites, one of the rare works that scores 6/6 on the Artrockometer. But the Mahler is my all-time favourite piece of music bar none.


Could you please recommend me your favorite performance of DLVDE? Considering that you love the work so much, I'm very curious to know.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

For DLVDE, Bernstein in Vienna, with James King and DFD.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Allerius said:


> Could you please recommend me your favorite performance of DLVDE? Considering that you love the work so much, I'm very curious to know.


Too many really, but if I must limit it to three/four:

orchestra/tenor/alto:
Wunderlich/Ludwig/Philharmonia and New Philharmonia Orchestras/Klemperer (EMI, 1967) best performance, but sounds less
Kollo/Ludwig/Berliner Philharmoniker/von Karajan (DG, 1975) second best performance, much better sounds

orchestra/tenor/baritone:
King/Fischer-Dieskau/Wiener Philharmoniker/Bernstein (Decca, 1966)

Of the unusual versions, I quite like the one for piano, tenor and mezzo:
Berchtold/Haselböck/Vorzellner (Cavi, 2009)


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> Too many really, but if I must limit it to three/four:
> 
> orchestra/tenor/alto:
> Wunderlich/Ludwig/Philharmonia and New Philharmonia Orchestras/Klemperer (EMI, 1967) best performance, but sounds less
> ...


When discussing interesting unusual versions of Mahler, I would also suggest this very refreshing take on Mahler-Jazz-Klezmer, true to the spirit of the music, Uri Caine's Urlicht:








Two songs of DLVDE are on it


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Ulfilas said:


> For DLVDE, Bernstein in Vienna, with James King and DFD.





Art Rock said:


> Too many really, but if I must limit it to three/four:
> 
> orchestra/tenor/alto:
> Wunderlich/Ludwig/Philharmonia and New Philharmonia Orchestras/Klemperer (EMI, 1967) best performance, but sounds less
> ...





NLAdriaan said:


> When discussing interesting unusual versions of Mahler, I would also suggest this very refreshing take on Mahler-Jazz-Klezmer, true to the spirit of the music, Uri Caine's Urlicht:
> 
> Two songs of DLVDE are on it


Thanks very much for the recommendations! I don't have yet any of these performances and will try to acquire them soon.


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## sstucky (Apr 4, 2020)

Le Sacre by a mile.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Well, they both end in death. One is violent and one is peaceful. 

I can't remember how I voted, but regarding the Mahler, I had a friend who discovered Das Liede and was especially moved by The Farewell. He died a week later. Now I can't hear that piece without thinking of him.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I voted for something else.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I can’t see the point of voting between two works which are so completely different. Like voting between chalk and cheese


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

These two pieces are wildly different but I voted for "Le Sacre" because Stravinsky is in my top 10.

That said, Mahler has been the only composer to make me misty eyed—a tall order!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

_Sacre_ feels to me like a "stunt" piece - a very impressive stunt, but more effective than meaningful. Whatever shallow depths it mines you can get in five or ten minutes. _Das Lied_ is Mahler at his greatest, deeply felt and poetic but without the gauzy philosophical pretensions, grotesquerie and hysteria that make much of his other stuff hard for me to like. No contest for me.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

^^^ "More effective than meaningful"...... Hits the nail on the head.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

Both highly admirable works. I prefer the Rite, one of my favorites in the the whole of the 20th century.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

My preferred versions are









and


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## ZeR0 (Apr 7, 2020)

Very tough choice; two tremendous works. I ultimately went with Le Sacre as I find it to be the more surprising and unique work. But a good vocal performance of Das Lied von der Erde can be emotionally devastating.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> The Stravinsky is one of my all-time favourites, one of the rare works that scores 6/6 on the Artrockometer. But the Mahler is my all-time favourite piece of music bar none.


Where am I going wrong with DLVDE? I've tried a few times and...well, it just doesn't seem to work.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

janxharris said:


> Where am I going wrong with DLVDE? I've tried a few times and...well, it just doesn't seem to work.


I don't think you can say you go wrong. I don't think there is even one single famous composition that is universally liked, let alone universally loved.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

janxharris said:


> Where am I going wrong with DLVDE? I've tried a few times and...well, it just doesn't seem to work.


You have to read it alongside the poetic text and realize that it is the work of a dying man with all his hope stripped away. Some might say that the context doesn't matter, but for me it certainly does.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> You have to read it alongside the poetic text and realize that it is the work of a dying man with all his hope stripped away. Some might say that the context doesn't matter, but for me it certainly does.


I don't hear it that way at all... and I _love_ Das Lied. I think there is hope and joie de vivre all over the work. (To clarify, this goes for both text and music).


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

flamencosketches said:


> I don't hear it that way at all... and I _love_ Das Lied. I think there is hope and joie de vivre all over the work. (To clarify, this goes for both text and music).


I would think you're in a clear minority with this interpretation, including how Mahler felt about it himself.

"What do you think," he asked Bruno Walter, "Is it at all bearable? After hearing this, won't people want to do away with themselves?"


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> I would think you're in a clear minority with this interpretation, including how Mahler felt about it himself.
> 
> "What do you think," he asked Bruno Walter, "Is it at all bearable? After hearing this, won't people want to do away with themselves?"


Maybe so, but I would find it surprising. I've never seen Das Lied as an entirely dark or depressing work, but something that is transcendental. But then again, I suppose I am always someone who can find light in the dark and dark in the light. Please, someone tell me I'm not crazy...


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

You are not crazy.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I am shocked I voted against _The Rite_!


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## The nose (Jan 14, 2014)

Easy one, I would have voted Le sacre du printemps over almost anything.


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