# Beethoven's 7th



## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Beethoven's 7th Symphony is, for me, the greatest piece of music ever written and will always be my desert island disc. It just seems to have everything that anybody could ever wish for.

Until very recently, Carlos Kleiber's recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic and his DVD recording with the Royal Concergebouw were, as far as I was concerned, unsurpassed. Sure, I loved Furtwängler's 1943 recording with the Berlin Philharmonic but the recording quality cannot compete with more modern technology, although the significance of the epoque does make it somewhat unique and well, Furtwängler is just Furtwängler. I also loved Paavo Järvi's recent recording with the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie of Bremen

Thanks to a recent post regarding Beethoven's 6th, however, I have just discovered Ashkenazy's recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra. Wow!! Why is this version not better known? Absolutely stunning and it has left me wondering, what are other posters' favourite recordings of this masterpiece and what other versions are there out there for me to still discover?

So, over to you all. Please pass on any suggestions that you may have and thanks, in advance.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

George Szell has a very serviceable rendition with Cleveland. Kleiber's is also very good and Karajan's name tends to get tossed around as well.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Try Pierre Monteux:





7th movement 2
7th movements 3 and 4

His 7th with the London Symphony Orchestra is available on a set with three other Beethoven symphonies.


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks Scratchgolf. I agree that Szell produced a great version with the Cleveland Orchestra and, in fact, he tends to be, along with Wand, my fall to guy for most of the classics. What he did with Cleveland was incredible and his Beethoven cycle is definitely in my top five. I have other Karajan Beethoven symphonies but oddly, not the 7th, now that I think about it, so maybe another one to check out. Any that you recommend? Cheers again.


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## Le Peel (May 15, 2015)

Riccardo Muti with the Philadelphia Orchestra for both 6 and 7.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This is a great thread because it enables me to make a lot of likes. Also, because the 7th is one I have neglected, not in that I don't listen to it, but that I don't single out for extra attention. Probably my habit of listening to whole symphony cycles at a time is not good as a full-time practice, but occasionally I should single out a symphony and listen to it exclusively multiple times until I am very familiar with it. Otherwise it can get lost in the whole.

A second thing to consider is that, while you will invariably need to buy CDs that are specifically of the 7th, when possible, get the whole cycle. You can do this with Szell for around $10 in a nice boxed set by Sony that I happen to have (I just got the Bernstein one the other day):


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks Florestan and Le Peel for your suggestions, which are exactly the type of recommendations that I was looking for. Neither crop up that often on the Beethoven threads, so I will definitely be checking them out. I already have the Szell cycle, the first full cycle I bought, if my memory serves me correctly. What's the Bernstein cycle like? The only Bernstein Beethoven that I have is the 1989 Berlin concert of the 9th, commemorating the fall of the Berlin Wall. I know that a lot of people are quite critical of it but like Furtwängler's wartime recordings, the sheer significance of the occasion makes it very special indeed. It has even greater significance for me, as I lived in Berlin, in the mid-80s, when the city was still divided and nobody dared contemplate the events that would occur just a few years later. Anyway, thanks again.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I just got the Bernstein cycle yesterday and have only listened to the first symphony so far. I am impressed that I will like the Bernstein cycle very much. Here is what one reviewer says:



> Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic. "Bernstein's cycle was recorded between 1961 and 1964, but was not released on LP as a box set until 1969 (at the time of Bernstein's "retirement" as music director of the NYPO). Bernstein challenges the musicians and the listener. To quote from a reviewer of the current CD release, 'These performances have an exuberance, energy, and scrappy, rough-hewn quality...' Bernstein brings enthusiasm and love for the music to these works."


From this link.

More review of the Bernstein cycle in this list and in this list.

I also think you would do well to get Ferenc Fricsay's 7th. You Tube of Vinyl.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

One to hear is Haitink's new recording with the LSO. He's entered his "quasi-HIP naturalistic just-the-facts" phase. Works well for him! And you get a nice Triple.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Klemperer's 1955 recording with the Philharmonia. This was originally released only in mono but a stereo tape had been made and was released early in the CD era. It has all the virtues of Klemperer's granitic Beethoven but without the slowness that is heard in his later version.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

#7 is a thoroughly great piece of music indeed.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> #7 is a thoroughly great piece of music indeed.


Yes, all nine are in fact!


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

If you enjoy Beethoven's Seventh Symphony, then surely sample various recordings of the music. You may find certain ones please you more than others, that some even rise above your current expectations of the music and will forge new "desert island" must have discs for you to enjoy for years onward.

I have long favored the Seventh above all other Beethoven symphonies, though not because I feel it is "better" than say the Fifth or the Ninth or more interesting than say the First or Eighth or more innovative than say the Third ... but because I "like" it, whatever that may mean.

I still recall my first hearing of the symphony decades ago when I was in my teens. I fell in love with it instantly -- a recording by Josef Krips -- and have never had it fall out of favor.

The second movement especially remains precious to my ears, and I cherish each listen, regardless of recording. And I've heard several dozen.

So, enjoy. If the Seventh is indeed your most favored work, you have chosen well. You will find much to savor in repeated hearings of this work.

And there is absolutely no reason to stop exploring the other Beethoven symphonies ... or, for that matter, the music of anybody else! The Seventh will always be there for you to return to for a visit whenever it should please.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

SONNET CLV said:


> ...The second movement especially remains precious to my ears, and I cherish each listen, regardless of recording. And I've heard several dozen.


Grove says that in France, in the early days, LvB's 2nd Symphony was often played with the 7th's slow movement in place of its own, in order to "make it go down." Imagine if we did that sort of thing today!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Great Beethoven 7th included Carlos Kleiber and also Klemperer's magnificently truculent 1955 recording. Don't forget Toscanini in 1936 with the NYPO


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)




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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I've always loved the 7th, especially the intensity of the searing slow movement which sounds almost like proto-Bruckner to me. The 60s Karajan/BPO recording was the first I heard of the symphony in its entirety and it's probably still my favourite overall, with honourable mentions to C. Kleiber and Wyn Morris.


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

I am also a huge fan of this masterpiece. Owning several records I would like to point the 3 most listened:
Toscanini 1936 NYPO
Karajan (1951??) Philharmonia Orchestra
Karl Bohm (1971) Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

For a complete different approach, sometimes I listen to Celibidache`s 1989 with Munich PO.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Solti's first recording with the CSO has always been my favorite. It was the highlight of that cycle.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Has anyone heard Bruggen's 7th? I have a download of a live performance, and for a HIP performance, he manages to blend the lightness and precision of the authentic instruments with the expressiveness of modern instruments.


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

+1 on Kleiber and Klemperer for the two extremes. I also love Järvi's Beethoven cycle, and he does a good job on the 7th.

The 7th also happens to be my favorite Beethoven symphony. I have three more versions I'd recommend for different aspects that haven't been mentioned yet:

Gardiner ORR: Not so dissimilar in style from Kleiber in the end, but "HIPper".









Jos van Immersel, Anima AEterna: Very HIP, sometimes too much, but nevertheless, some interesting discoveries to be made.









And finally, no Beethoven cycle is complete without good old Bruno Walter, really the other extreme opposite. Wouldn't want this every day, but the sheer power is impressive.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Grove says that in France, in the early days, LvB's 2nd Symphony was often played with the 7th's slow movement in place of its own, in order to "make it go down." Imagine if we did that sort of thing today!


That is a listening experiment I must try soon. Helpfully, I just today in the mail received my order of the 10-CD collection on the Intense Media label of "The Complete Symphonies" of Ludwig van Beethoven as performed by Otto Klemperer and the Philharmonia Orchestra coupled with "The Complete Symphonies" of Johannes Brahms as performed by Rudolf Kempe and the Munchner Philharmoniker.









Perhaps when I turn to Klemperer's take on the Second, I shall substitute the second movement of the Seventh to hear what I can hear.

Perhaps I may just load five Beethoven symphony discs into my 5-disc Marantz CD deck and push the random play button. Yet, maybe I'll save that experiment for a later date.

I'm sure that at least old Beethoven won't object.


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

May I add one from Felix Weingartner? It might be the best kept secret, if not only one expect great transfer from recordings made somewhere in 1930s. His 7th is full of youthful spontaneity, lightness and air. It is not your usual stone-carved Beethoven from 50-60s.


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Thank you so much to everybody who has responded to my original post. Whilst I already knew several of the versions suggested, there were many that I did not and had never even considered. It has been an enlightening experience and will certainly be a pleasurable future one, as I 'work' my way through all of your suggestions. Thank you again and please feel free to suggest further options, as they may arise.


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## FLighT (Mar 7, 2013)

While I have more sets and one-offs of the Beethoven symphonies than I want to list here, and while I also wouldn't want to be without Kleiber or Szell, this is the seventh that caught my attention most recently.









I found it to be an involving performance, well recorded, and a nice middle ground between the authentic instruments and practices and the big band approach.


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Whilst looking around I found this compilation of full performances of the 7th, which includes the ones by Krips, Toscanini and Karajan that were mentioned earlier, as well as several others, of which I know nothing:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethovens-7th-Symphony-Anniversary-Collection/dp/B007N35MS2/ref=sr_1_4?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1433104803&sr=1-4&keywords=beethoven+7th+symphony

It's also available on iTunes and, I imagine, from Google Play.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

There are lots of good Seventh's out there worth a listen. A couple worth seeking out: Schmidt-Isserstedt's with the VPO (fabulously played); Fricsay's with the BPO (tempos a little less exuberant, but still appropriate).


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

I have been watching Hurwitz talk on the seventh. Not sure if you have seen the video. Nothing really confrontational, he picked some really good versions. One he left out was my favourite. Not sure if you guys agree with the video and his top choice.

My favourite: A balanced, exciting, good quality recording.







Davis/RPO (warner/emi)


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Haven't seen the vid but that Davis version is a good one right enough. He's not always my favourite conductor but he was on his game with this performance.

I have a number of recordings but I keep going back to James Loughran's lovely performance with the Halle.


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

AnotherSpin said:


> May I add one from Felix Weingartner? It might be the best kept secret, if not only one expect great transfer from recordings made somewhere in 1930s. His 7th is full of youthful spontaneity, lightness and air. It is not your usual stone-carved Beethoven from 50-60s.


Nice pick! I'm a firm admirer and listener of Weingartner's Beethoven. Her with the VPO in 1936. The remasters on Naxos historical are a delight!









Regards,

Vincula

PS. Weingartner's an interesting composer too.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I agree with a lot of Hurwitz’s observations on his recent video, including Kleiber’s DG 7th being overrated. It’s a dull performance. The live Orfeo is much better. Also glad to see him give props to the Bernstein/VPO and Beecham/RPO.

In general I prefer exciting 7ths that also retain Beethovian opulence and color. Furtwängler is unparalleled for weighty drama, though Toscanini certainly gives him a run for his money in a work tailor made for the Italian maestro. For modern sound my choice recording is Böhm’s colorful VPO account.

My essential 7ths include:

Furtwängler/BPO 1953
Furtwängler/BPO 1943
Toscanini/NYPO 1936
Klemperer/PO live 1957 (Testament)
Weingartner/VPO 1936
Böhm/VPO 1975
Davis/RPO 1961
Kleiber/BSO 1982
Bernstein/VPO 1978
Beecham/RPO 1959


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

a lot of really fine ones - 

Toscanini/NYPO 1936
Szell/Cleveland
Dorati/LSO
Solti/CSO
Reiner/CSO - the 1954 TV one on video
Walter/ColSO


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## happyclassicalfeet (Jul 6, 2020)

I'm quickly becoming the person that spams 'Reiner' on practically every post. But here's a symphony I dislike that only Reiner makes me like.

Edit: Kleiber's is not to my personal liking.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

happyclassicalfeet said:


> I'm quickly becoming the person that spams 'Reiner' on practically every post. But here's a symphony I dislike that only Reiner makes me like.....


Reiner - great conductor, without doubt...really superior, produced so many great performances over wide range of repertoire....but rather a miserable person....tyrannical, domineering, sarcastic....nasty guy., great musician, a real pr*ck.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Upon reading just today the "Orchestral Choice" review in the May 2021 issue of BBC Magazine (Yeah, I'm a couple months behind in my attentions to that magazine which I subscribe to), I promptly ordered conductor Teodor Currentzis take on the Beethoven 7th on Sony Classical 19439743772. The recording is set to arrive in early July, and I'm looking forward to hearing it on my rig.















The reviewer, Julian Haylock, remarks in his critique: "... the second movement _Allegretto_ is revelatory in its multifaceted soundscaping and enhanced dynamic flexibility -- the Symphony's generic imaging appears to dissolve in front of our ears, to reveal pristine musical surfaces." Earlier in the review he writes: "At a moderate tempo, Currentzis presents a radical viewpoint, which is more ramped-up Haydn than Tchaikovsky in embryo." And this: "Throughout, rather than adopting a headlong interpretive profile, Currentzis inflects Beethoven's indelible invention with an at times startling range of articulation that bristles with spontaneous relish. Rather than cossetting us in a warm bath of reassuring musical semantics, Currentzis offers up a bracing, tingling cold shower." Haylock assigned both the Performance and the Recording 5 out of 5 stars.

I'm eager to hear this interpretation.


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