# Tinnitus



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

I have suffered from tinnitus for several years now. I've not been able to find a thread on this issue here (though mentions of it in some posts), which surprised me. So I searched for an article about tinnitus and music and found this:

https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/53196-Musicians-tinnitus-and-hearing-loss



> very few musicians actually talk about their tinnitus because they believe that doing so puts their reputation at risk. And so they suffer in isolation, hiding their pain from the world.


Is this true? Could it explain why it's not (apparently) been discussed here?

More importantly, I'm interested in others' experience of this problem, and in particular, whether you have any strategies for diminishing its impact on your listening pleasure.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

I ignore my tinnitus. The only time I'm really conscious of it is when I listen to organ music.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2021)

Sometimes I notice it sometimes I don't. I suspect that it is always there at some level, and what varies is the mind's ability to tune it out.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Baron Scarpia said:


> Sometimes I notice it sometimes I don't. I suspect that it is always there at some level, and what varies is the mind's ability to tune it out.


Yep I am in the same situation and what brings it on is too loud music, My wife and I attended a concert by Christ College Choir and the only seats we could get were front row directly in front of the Sopranos it was a magnificent concert but I had Tinnitus for a couple of days but well worth it.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Dan Ante said:


> Yep I am in the same situation and what brings it on is too loud music, My wife and I attended a concert by Christ College Choir and the only seats we could get were front row directly in front of the Sopranos it was a magnificent concert but I had Tinnitus for a couple of days but well worth it.


Does that mean you don't have it all the time, or you don't notice it all the time?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I’ve suffered for many years. I first noticed it at piano recitals. It worsened significantly during a nasty sinus infection and stayed that way ever since.

Now it’s 24 hours a day, although the intensity and pitch vary. The silver lining is that I’m reasonably able to ignore it (unless I am evaluating sound quality of a recording or component).

These days there are a lot of worse health problems to have.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Forster said:


> Does that mean you don't have it all the time, or you don't notice it all the time?


Yes I do not notice it most of the time just got used to it I suppose.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Pulsatile tinnitus here, 24hrs a day, usually louder in the afternoon, staying loud longer when I'm deprived of sleep.

Listening habit is obviously affected. 

My strategy is twofold: 

1. Adjust my daily routines; only listen to music when the tinnitus is not loud. 

2. Mitigate the problem when it's serious (e.g. loud video games or loud youtude rain/thunder session to drown out the tinnitus; or simply use sedatives) in order to not get upset about it, otherwise it will get louder and longer, and that will leave no quiet hours for music.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I have tinnitus, but mine is episodic. I will have it for two or three days. On the second to the third day, it will fade and then I won't have any tinnitus at all for a few days. While loud noises can trigger an episode, most of the time I will wake up with it. This might seem hard to believe, most of my episodes of tinnitus are triggered by dreaming. If I have been dreaming vividly as I wake I will usually have tinnitus. 

I got my first episode of tinnitus in 2009 when I had the swine flu. It persisted for days but then went away as my other symptoms of the flu reduced. I didn't get tinnitus again for at least a year. Then the year after that my tinnitus came and went more frequently. Late in 2012, I had my hearing checked - there is some hearing loss in the high-frequency range in my left ear, the only ear in which I hear my tinnitus. 

Most of the time now, I will have tinnitus for two or three days and then two or three days without it. However, this summer my episodes of tinnitus have been less frequent. I've wondered if stress is also a trigger because I don't work summers. 

As I understand it, tinnitus is really occurring in the brain, and that's why there is no cure. And for me, it might explain why my episodes are triggered by stress and dreaming. 

For all of you sufferers, you have my sympathies.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I've had the constant ringing for several years. Forty years of loud music in the car probably did the damage. A number of prominent musicians have spoken about it. Guitarist Al Di Meola, for one. But I'm not sure who if any in the classical world have admitted to being sufferers?


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

senza sordino said:


> I have tinnitus, but mine is episodic. I will have it for two or three days. On the second to the third day, it will fade and then I won't have any tinnitus at all for a few days. While loud noises can trigger an episode, most of the time I will wake up with it. This might seem hard to believe, most of my episodes of tinnitus are triggered by dreaming. If I have been dreaming vividly as I wake I will usually have tinnitus.
> 
> I got my first episode of tinnitus in 2009 when I had the swine flu. It persisted for days but then went away as my other symptoms of the flu reduced. I didn't get tinnitus again for at least a year. Then the year after that my tinnitus came and went more frequently. Late in 2012, I had my hearing checked - there is some hearing loss in the high-frequency range in my left ear, the only ear in which I hear my tinnitus.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Interesting that you think it might be brought on by dreaming. Now I think about it, mine can seem quite strong when I first wake up in the morning, but it's not noticeable if I wake up in the night in the middle of a dream. I too had my hearing checked, maybe 6-7 years ago, and have lost some high frequency sensitivity, more in my left ear, but I have tinnitius in both.



starthrower said:


> I've had the constant ringing for several years. Forty years of loud music in the car probably did the damage. A number of prominent musicians have spoken about it. Guitarist Al Di Meola, for one. But I'm not sure who if any in the classical world have admitted to being sufferers?


Listening to loud music in the car, on headphones and some loud concerts in my teens may have contributed - if it is just an ear thing. I went to see the so-called supergroup UK (Wetton, Jobson, Bruford, Holdsworth) in 1978/9 and was stood at the front, pretty close to the speaker stack. It was a blast, literally, but I had ringing in my ears for several days afterwards. When it returned forty years later, I hoped that it was also going to pass after a while, but no, it's been with me ever since. It doesn't seem to interfere with my listening, not even to quiet stuff. My hearing loss (normal range for a 60+ year old) does interfere with my wife's listening, as I need the TV volume higher than she does!


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Mine comes and goes ... sometimes more notable like when it's completely quiet. Did it to myself all those years of tuning pipe organs and analog electronic organs. 

I wear hearing aids now.


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## skroderider (Jun 21, 2020)

I have it from time to time, not more than once a month or so. I did go to a doc who did some preliminary hearing tests and said nothing is wrong  - go home.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

I've read that orchestra musicians who sit in front of the brass are most prone to develop tinnitus. I've looked at orchestra seating charts for several orchestras and if true the violas and second violins are particularly vulnerable.

I've had severe, incessant tinnitus since adolescence and it has seriously interfered with my enjoyment of life. The sensation can best be described as either "frying eggs" or loud swamp sounds. I assiduously protect my hearing (which is normal otherwise). My greatest fear is natural deafness: the thought of 'hearing" only my tinnitus is terrifying.

Other than that I'm in good spirits.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

Sometimes my tinnitus has 2 tones bouncing random. Then it's fun.


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

Mine comes and goes, varies in intensity.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

Forster said:


> Does that mean you don't have it all the time, or you don't notice it all the time?


Oh man, am I happy that I am not that challenged! Mine's constant but mild in my left ear, so I try to stay distracted from it


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Forster said:


> Does that mean you don't have it all the time, or you don't notice it all the time?


It's always there for me, in the background, if I pay attention to it. Most of the time I don't, and I don't think about it. High pitched squealing sounds will definitely make it worse.



geramar said:


> I've had severe, incessant tinnitus since adolescence and it has seriously interfered with my enjoyment of life. The sensation can best be described as either "frying eggs" or loud swamp sounds.


Really? "Frying egg sounds"? That doesn't sound like tinnitus as I know it. Mine, and all others I've heard about, are two sine tones, less than an octave apart (about 4,000Hz and 5,000Hz), playing constantly in a dissonant chord. I once made an audio file, to play for somebody who wanted to hear what it sounded like, and boy-oh-boy was that painful to play.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Musicians and music fans who have been around loud music for many years, are likelier to have this annoying problem, I guess. Hopefully it doesn't get worse than just sporadic and annoying.

I remember disliking loud music as a teenager in a garage band. So loud! I would complain, "Can't we turn it down so that the 'music' and the lyrics can be heard?" Nobody else wanted to lower the volume as much as me, so I was stuck. Ever since I've had a bias against loud music, at parties, in movie theaters, even in restaurants it often gets to be too loud. I'm unaffected so far.

I notice when going out to eat that many young people (and waitresses) talk quite loud in normal situations, like they're hard of hearing and don't know it. It reminds me of old folks I would care for. They were likewise a little hard of hearing. 'Weird world observing such behavior in 25 yr olds. The ongoing damage is accumulative.

What were we hearing 20,000 years ago? It was generally a quiet existence.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Luchesi said:


> What were we hearing 20,000 years ago? It was generally a quiet existence.


What, you've never heard a saber-tooth tiger?


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

NoCoPilot said:


> What, you've never heard a saber-tooth tiger?


That Neanderthal music went quiet when those brutes went extinct 35k yrs ago. After 10 millennia of fighting and 'sharing genes' with them our wilderness home was finally quiet. …Until the 1980s, that is, when that loud and empty/vain music came back, omg!


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Luchesi said:


> That Neanderthal music went quiet when those brutes went extinct 35k yrs ago.





Wikipedia said:


> Along with most of the Pleistocene megafauna, Smilodon became extinct 10,000 years ago in the Quaternary extinction event. Its extinction has been linked to the decline and extinction of large herbivores, which were replaced by smaller and more agile ones like deer. Hence, Smilodon could have been too specialized at hunting large prey and may have been unable to adapt.


I think that was about when Heavy Metal first became popular.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

My natural hearing has ebbed in my, now, later life. For the past 8 years I have had to resort to hearing aids. 

I invested in a pair of top of the line hearing aids - the kind that have a unit that goes over the ear and has a little speaker that goes into the ear canal. I have multiple settings on these, and one is set for music. I turns off any attenuation of incoming sound and the organ never sounded better. 

It's been an adjustment during Covid as there were three items wrapped over my ears: 1)hearing aid, mask straps, and an oxygen cannula. Complicates things when I also serve as a cantor and sporting a wireless mic that also goes over the ear at some of our 5pm Saturday services ... that's four things wrapped over the ears!!

Then, one of the hearing aid batteries quits during a service and has to be changed out. No, it can't happen before or after the service, always during and while I am playing!! 

Kh


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

NoCoPilot said:


> I think that was about when Heavy Metal first became popular.


For the human wannabes it was Heavy Rock.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)




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## verandai (Dec 10, 2021)

I'm having it since I'm a child (for about 35 years now). The sound is quite loud - luckily the frequency is quite high (about 15 kHz), so I learned to ignore it. Normally it doesn't disturb my musical sense at listening or playing. Only if I pay attention to it, the sound is quite loud.

At the moment I can still hear this high frequency in "real" sounds (just tested it at an online tone generator). I'm curious if I'll still hear the tinnitus sound once I don't hear the real frequency anymore, because of age 

As I have it since I was a child, I can reject hearing loud music as a possible cause. I went to doctors back then, but they couldn't help. But I've learned to deal with it quite soon.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I have had tinnitus for decades and thankfully early reached a point where I no longer paid attention to it--it is just part of the ambient environment and almost never rises to conscious attention (as it does when, as here, referred to).


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I have had tinnitus for decades and thankfully early reached a point where I no longer paid attention to it--it is just part of the ambient environment and almost never rises to conscious attention (as it does when, as here, referred to).


Wow, a lot of cases in here. I'd like to hear from others like me who can't imagine what music lovers must deal with. Is it true that a high percentage of contributors have this problem?
Someone should invent an internal noise canceller specifically for this malady. And charge whatever the market will allow. Big profits, like decades ago with the very expensive hearing aid innovations.

Would you undergo the operation or the condition's not bad enough? I'm just curious, if it's too personal..


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Luchesi said:


> Wow, a lot of cases in here. I'd like to hear from others like me who can't imagine what music lovers must deal with. Is it true that a high percentage of contributors have this problem?
> Someone should invent an internal noise canceller specifically for this malady. And charge whatever the market will allow. Big profits, like decades ago with the very expensive hearing aid innovations.
> 
> Would you undergo the operation or the condition's not bad enough? I'm just curious, if it's too personal..





The Mayo Clinic said:


> Tinnitus is a common problem. It affects about 15% to 20% of people, and is especially common in older adults.
> 
> *Common causes of tinnitus*
> 
> ...


There usually is no cure for tinnitus, no "internal noise canceller" unfortunately.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Luchesi said:


> Wow, a lot of cases in here. I'd like to hear from others like me who can't imagine what music lovers must deal with. Is it true that a high percentage of contributors have this problem?
> Someone should invent an internal noise canceller specifically for this malady. And charge whatever the market will allow. Big profits, like decades ago with the very expensive hearing aid innovations.
> 
> Would you undergo the operation or the condition's not bad enough? I'm just curious, if it's too personal..


In my case, I would forego the operation as the tinnitus rarely rises to the point of conscious recognition-it's hardly there for me now, and the operation might go south.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Luchesi said:


> Wow, a lot of cases in here. I'd like to hear from others like me who can't imagine what music lovers must deal with. Is it true that a high percentage of contributors have this problem?
> Someone should invent an internal noise canceller specifically for this malady. And charge whatever the market will allow. Big profits, like decades ago with the very expensive hearing aid innovations.
> 
> Would you undergo the operation or the condition's not bad enough? I'm just curious, if it's too personal..


I might. It often makes itself intrusively aware, so if there were a cure, I might consider it.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Luchesi said:


> . . . Would you undergo the operation or the condition's not bad enough? I'm just curious, if it's too personal..


If such an operation would be able to restore my hearing back to normal I would certainly look at that option ... as opposed to going totally deaf.

The operation would also have to be covered by insurance, in my case Medicare. I've also heard about a procedure where some sort of implant is made just behind the ear in the skull.

Kh


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

I found this on twitter. It seems to work, but my tinnitus is mild and I don't notice it most of the time anyway.

"Put your palms on your ears and thumps the soft spot in the back of your head with your fingers. Should resonate and feel like your head is the inside of a drum. 15-30 seconds. Makes tinnitus go away for a while for most people. Sometimes mine goes away for the rest of the day."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566263328149647360


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Interesting. Ordinarily I wouldn't take science advice from Twitter, but I tried this, and I did notice an effect. What I _think_ the effect is, the "drumming inside your head" is louder than the tinnitus so for a few seconds, after you quit drumming, your ears perceive the end of the loud drumming rather than the constant low-level tinnitus. It doesn't affect the tinnitus at all, it just shifts your perception from small sounds to loud ones for a few seconds afterward.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Another method which works quiet well is as follows:
Put a little lubricant on the tip of both of your little fingers,
Insert left finger gently into your left ear hole,
Insert right finger gently into your right ear hole, 
Manipulate both hands so that you can touch both thumbs together under the front of your chin,
Take a deep breath then open your mouth as wide as possible and slowly exhale do this 7 times ,
Repeat every day for a week and you should be cured. NB it is vital that finger contact must not be broken.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Dan Ante said:


> Another method which works quite well is as follows:
> Put a little lubricant on the tip of both of your little fingers,
> Insert left finger gently into your left ear hole,
> Insert right finger gently into your right ear hole,
> Manipulate both hands so that you can touch both little fingers together.


Fixed that for you!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

You are too kind but what needed fixing???


NoCoPilot said:


> Fixed that for you!


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Forster said:


> I have suffered from tinnitus for several years now. I've not been able to find a thread on this issue here (though mentions of it in some posts), which surprised me. So I searched for an article about tinnitus and music and found this:
> 
> Musicians, tinnitus and hearing loss - a hidden problem
> 
> ...


I have had it for 20 years. It is rather severe. I have no way of dealing with it. I just accept it.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

eljr said:


> I have had it for 20 years. It is rather severe. I have no way of dealing with it. I just accept it.


Info I didn't know from the Mayo Clinic;

If the hairs inside your inner ear are bent or broken — this happens as you age or when you are regularly exposed to loud sounds — they can "leak" random electrical impulses to your brain, causing tinnitus.
*Ear infection or ear canal blockage.* Your ear canals can become blocked with a buildup of fluid (ear infection), earwax, dirt or other foreign materials. A blockage can change the pressure in your ear, causing tinnitus.
*Head or neck injuries.* Head or neck trauma can affect the inner ear, hearing nerves or brain function linked to hearing. Such injuries usually cause tinnitus in only one ear.
*Medications.* A number of medications may cause or worsen tinnitus. Generally, the higher the dose of these medications, the worse tinnitus becomes. Often the unwanted noise disappears when you stop using these drugs.
Medications known to cause tinnitus include nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) and certain antibiotics, cancer drugs, water pills (diuretics), antimalarial drugs and antidepressants.

There are very few loud sounds in nature which would repeat and damage your hearing, so we're adapted to a very quiet world by comparison to today's constant noisiness.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I have had tinnitus for years, a high-pitched hiss in my left ear. Doesn't vary much in pitch, timbre or volume. Purging ear wax makes no difference. I just do my best to ignore it.


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## MartinDB (9 mo ago)

I think my tinnitus, which I have had for a couple of decades, has gotten worse and I am now in a concerted campaign to lessen it. I am taking ginkgo biloba, have just started on B-12, and am cutting down on coffee and alcohol (both of which are tough to reduce, especially the former). I think I notice the difference with less alcohol and coffee. I am also now starting with a neti pot to rinse my sinuses each day. This last is because I am sure part of my problem is something to do with my eustachian tube (some doctor once told me mine was very short, I recall) and I find myself constantly holding my nose and trying to "open" my ears which feel clogged. The tinnitus is most pronounced in the ear that feels less blocked though, so maybe that is nonsense. I would be very interested to hear what other methods people have tried and which help. I am sceptical that I can cure it - though would pay dearly to do so - but ameliorating it should be possible.

It definitely affects my listening to music. I listen to more music on headphones, which I tended to use anyway. Not loudly, I stress. And perhaps perversely, it makes me push the quality of my listening equipment more, so I can squeeze out whatever sounds I can. I have recently been upgrading a bunch of equipment and this does make me happy (though it also keeps reminding me of the tinnitus).


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Whether the problem can be ameliorated to any degree, I suppose, depends on what kind of tinnitus one has. Mine is pulsatile tinnitus, which is caused by real sound of blood flowing through the vessels in my neck. In fact, the doctor said no cure could be provided, and his only suggestion was joining a therapy group!!!

However, I have found ways to mitigate the problem. 

Putting on a thunderstorm youtube video when I go to sleep will drown out the tinnitus, making it possible to sleep.

Exercising will intensify the loudness, but it also seems to alleviate it in the following 4 - 6 hours.

During the day, putting on loud music while I am doing other things will also drown out the tinnitus so it will distract/annoy me less.

I have found that using headphones will only make me more aware of the tinnitus, perhaps because headphones will block a lot of noise from the environment, so when a passage of the music is relatively quiet, the tinnitus catches all my attention. I use only loudspeakers these days, and I have found that I am less aware of the tinnitus this way. 

And since the loudness of the tinnitus varies during the day, I have adjusted my daily routines so that I can listen to music when the problem is less severe. At first it was difficult psychologically to "restrict" my life like this, but I have got used to it.

My experience of using sedative is that, it may make me feel less annoyed by the tinnitus or less emotional about it, but it is like a drug, and using it long-term is not good, so I only use it when the problem is really severe, like when it is so loud that even a thunderstorm video cannot drown it out.


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