# The concept of honesty-how do you look at it?



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I came across this quote

_"In common life we see two principles at work. Honesty is open-faced, plain-mannered, simple-hearted, pure-souled. Policy is curtain-faced, courtier-mannered, and serpent-hearted. Honesty is sound to the core; Policy is hollow or rotten to the rind. Honesty speaks right out; Policy hesitates, considers, makes polite round-about speeches, and expresses an equivocal indefiniteness. Honesty is as good at home as abroad; Policy is most interesting among strangers. With Honesty, familiarity creates respect; with Policy, it breeds contempt. In the market-place, Policy puts the fairest fruit on the top of the measure; Honesty makes it all alike. Policy conceals the blemishes of the animal or articles to be sold; Honesty presents the plain truth, the article as it is, the good and bad alike exposed. Honesty shows goods as they are; Policy as they should be. Honesty sells for an equivalent; Policy for what it can get. Honesty believes in quick sales and fair profits; Policy in the sales and profits it can get. The word of Honesty is its bond; the word of Policy is what happens to be for its best. Honesty has one price for all its customers; Policy a price for each customer. Honesty is satisfied with a living profit; Policy, like the grave, cries forever for more.

GEORGE SUMNER WEAVER, The Ways of Life"_

There is no denying that in my experience, by this more penetrating definition of honesty, there are some people who are legitimately pretty honest in most settings, but the average person I think, operates more on a basis of policy, it seems necessary for the cultivation of ambitions. I don't know, your thoughts on this quote? Isn't there such a thing as an honest policy?

I wonder how honest I am in the truest sense of the word. Perhaps if I were honest in this way, I wouldn't wonder. I know that I sacrifice some honesty for the forcing of ideas on myself.

I may be mistaken, but I don't see anything so bad about policy as long as one is honest to themselves and close ones about the nature of their policy. He did say there were two principles at work after all.

Sometimes I wonder if when people talk and think with excessive nuance and like I do all the time, they are cheating themselves out of a more straightforward meaning, if only they were accustomed to accepting the negative aspects of that straightforward meaning. For example, me saying "sometimes I wonder." I refuse to exit the world of speculation.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

This all very much depends on which arenas of conversation and relationships you want to take it. Honesty in business would be laudable, for example, but some naive people take honesty to mean openly criticising people around you with whatever comes into your mind.

Both honesty and policy are necessary and useful in human interaction.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm so politic, a lot of times I don't know what I actually think.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

science said:


> I'm so politic, a lot of times I don't know what I actually think.


I don't know science, you seem to me to express your honest views here on TC, I would might say that you are highly introspective and happen to notice your policy too much, with a critical eye.

But sometimes, I feel the same way.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I got past the Brutally Frank stage a long time ago. Since then my _policy_ is to tell it like it is unless 'like it is' is Brutally Frank.

_Science_, if you have been trying to be PC, you have failed.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Brutally Frank


Imagine if your user name was Brutal Frank.

Edit, actually I like _Feudal Frank_ better.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> I don't know science, you seem to me to express your honest views here on TC, I would might say that you are highly introspective and happen to notice your policy too much, with a critical eye.
> 
> But sometimes, I feel the same way.





Hilltroll72 said:


> _Science_, if you have been trying to be PC, you have failed.


I often wonder at the difference between my online persona and my real-life personality. In real life, I hardly ever have a serious conversation because I cannot stand them. If someone tries, I make a joke and avoid it. No one in my family knows my religious beliefs, for instance. There are people who I talk to seriously - today I had a good conversation with a guy about Kierkegaard, German romanticism, Heidegger, and so on - but that is very rare. Most of my conversations are confined to my own imagination; most of the rest are on the internet.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I like to be honest, but with respect to other people. Of course, sometimes I get emotional and it is best to avoid anything that can cause bad vibes. I like to put things plainly and to the point (although sometimes I ramble, but I try to avoid jargon).

I think the bottom line is being able to communicate, encouraging open communication, not authoritarian type closed communication. This is an art and skill that's a work in progress for me, learning from life experience as well as things like communications courses and books on the topic. Good communication does not depend on your education or income.

Anybody can be a good communicator (I've seen good ones and bad ones and in-between, from various walks of life, etc.). It all boils down to attitude for me, also empathy, and accepting that humans are different, but we have things in common that go across our differences. It's finding those things in common that matter to me.

I often forget what people say, but I try to note in my mind if I see an example ("live" in front of me) of good communication. I just saw one today! Often it's not necessarily what you say to a person, but how you say it, the delivery of the message.

Anyway, these are the parts of your quote, clavichorder, that resonated with me, how I see things, etc. (although, taken to an extreme, these can be false dichotomies, but I see them more stimulus for thinking about topics related to honesty & not as rigid rules) -

_With Honesty, familiarity creates respect; with Policy, it breeds contempt.

Honesty is open-faced, plain-mannered, simple-hearted, pure-souled. Policy is curtain-faced, courtier-mannered, and serpent-hearted.

Honesty speaks right out; Policy hesitates, considers, makes polite round-about speeches, and expresses an equivocal indefiniteness._


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