# Miscasting In Movie Musicals



## MAS

*Mame*

There have been serious miscasting in movie musicals, but none so bad as Lucille Ball in the movie musical version of *Mame*. Angela Lansbury was available, but the producers wanted a movie star with bankability. Unfortunately, there was one: Lucille Ball, who should've known better. At 65, she couldn't dance. All the dances had to be choreographed around her. She was definitely not a singer, as shown in the clip. She couldn't even walk in rhythm to the music.. And "if he walked into my life today" is just pathetic - Ball cannot even summon any other emotion but sadness. A mistake all around. It didn't even make back its cost ($12 million).

Watch and cringe.


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## Guest

Cringeworthy, I agree. Here's another hopeless miscast: embarrassing. And she knew it!!






Marnie Nixon's voice but the shrill Cockney required of Eliza was not a fit for Hepburn.


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## Guest

An Italian playing a Frenchman and way too old for Nellie!!






Frank Sinatra miscast in "Can Can"; he was too strident and unsympathetic:






Rita Hayworth way too old for this role and trying to compete with Kim Novak!!!


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## jegreenwood

Giving Sinatra the non-singing male lead in _Guys and Dolls_, although they worked him into one or two numbers - and Marlon Brando the singing lead.

Neither Barbra Streisand nor Walter Matthau was right in _Hello, Dolly_. Streisand got by on sheer star-power.


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## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> Giving Sinatra the non-singing male lead in _Guys and Dolls_, although they worked him into one or two numbers - and Marlon Brando the singing lead.


Agree, but Brando was so stunningly gorgeous I just didn't care!!


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## SanAntone

There is a funny story about Patti LuPone and a letter to her from Sondheim concerning the casting for the movie of _Sweeney Todd_. This letter from Sondheim, Patti had framed and keeps on her piano.

She had written a note to him something to the effect, "too bad they couldn't have cast a single actual singer when the made the movie of Sweeney." Sondheim wrote back, "Who asked you, c*nt?"

He had a sardonic sense of humor.


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## MAS

Christabel said:


> Cringeworthy, I agree. Here's another hopeless miscast: embarrassing. And she knew it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marnie Nixon's voice but the shrill Cockney required of Eliza was not a fit for Hepburn.


I think she did a good job acting the role, even if she didn't sing it.


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## MAS

SanAntone said:


> There is a funny story about Patti LuPone and a letter to her from Sondheim concerning the casting for the movie of _Sweeney Todd_. This letter from Sondheim, Patti had framed and keeps on her piano.
> 
> She had written a note to him something to the effect, "too bad they couldn't have cast a single actual singer when the made the movie of Sweeney." Sondheim wrote back, "Who asked you, c*nt?"
> 
> He had a sardonic sense of humor.


Yeah, casting was stunningly awful for the leads, but again, they wanted _movie stars_ to sell it.


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## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> Giving Sinatra the non-singing male lead in _Guys and Dolls_, although they worked him into one or two numbers - and Marlon Brando the singing lead.
> 
> Neither Barbra Streisand nor Walter Matthau was right in _Hello, Dolly_. Streisand got by on sheer star-power.


Completely agree with this!! I'd forgotten about it but, then again, it was a forgettable film!!


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## Luchesi

MAS said:


> *Mame*
> 
> There have been serious miscasting in movie musicals, but none so bad as Lucille Ball in the movie musical version of *Mame*. Angela Lansbury was available, but the producers wanted a movie star with bankability. Unfortunately, there was one: Lucille Ball, who should've known better. At 65, she couldn't dance. All the dances had to be choreographed around her. She was definitely not a singer, as shown in the clip. She couldn't even walk in rhythm to the music.. And "if he walked into my life today" is just pathetic - Ball cannot even summon any other emotion but sadness. A mistake all around. It didn't even make back its cost ($12 million).
> 
> Watch and cringe.


At 65, how did she walk that fast backward in heels? But I agree about hitting the notes. Maybe she thought that was her 'sound'. 
She talked about her life at that time, in that famous interview. 'Many struggles.


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## pianozach

MAS said:


> *Mame*
> 
> There have been serious miscasting in movie musicals, but none so bad as Lucille Ball in the movie musical version of *Mame*. Angela Lansbury was available, but the producers wanted a movie star with bankability. Unfortunately, there was one: Lucille Ball, who should've known better. At 65, she couldn't dance. All the dances had to be choreographed around her. She was definitely not a singer, as shown in the clip. She couldn't even walk in rhythm to the music.. And "if he walked into my life today" is just pathetic - Ball cannot even summon any other emotion but sadness. A mistake all around. It didn't even make back its cost ($12 million).
> 
> Watch and cringe.


I just found this thread, and the first film musical that came to mind was *MAME*. I didn't know that Angela Lansbury was available; she'd have been great.

As a director of stage musicals, I've found that I'd rather have a great actress that's a good singer than a great singer that's only a good actress. *But* when it comes to film, it's always more convincing to find someone who's great in all departments, a "triple threat"; a great dancer, singer, AND actor.

I still don't understand the arrogance of film producers and directors that will deliberately cast someone that has "star" power rather than someone that is perfect for the role. (For that matter, I'm perplexed how a film studio will purchase the rights to a great musical, say, one that has multiple Tony awards, and then decide to make major changes.

For the former, there are several films in which they've cast a great actress that doesn't have a singing voice that can carry the vocal part (*My Fair Lady, Camelot, West Side Story*, etc.).

For the latter, I'll cite two very successful films. First there's *Cabaret*, which was nominated for 11 Tony Awards, winning in 8 categories. So the producers/writers/director promptly eliminate the two largest and most important roles in the stage production, the jewish greengrocer Herr Schultz and the weary German boardinghouse owner Frau Schneider.

The story of Sally Bowles was the subplot, with the scenes and songs in the actual Cabaret meant as commentary to the 'outside' world. So, the film, instead, centers around Liza Minelli (who couldn't manage an English accent, so the character became American instead) as Sally.

And, yes, I'm fully aware that the film adaptation was nominated for 10 Oscars, winning 8.

If you ever get an opportunity to see the stage production, be sure to attend.

The other is *Grease*, which was nominated for 8 Tony Awards, winning none. The show was an ensemble musical, with every one of the supporting characters having a song in which to shine.

The film adaptation of Grease, chose, instead, to just eliminate half the songs from the show, stripping all of the supporting characters' backstories and context. The only supporting character song they kept was _Greased Lightning_, which was given to star John Travolta when he insisted on having that song. One of the best songs in the show, *Alone At the Drive-in Movie*, was cut due to Travolta's inability to sing it well enough, and the song was replaced with the insipid horror "_*Sandy*_". A few other songs were added, including the Top Ten Hit Hopelessly Devoted to You, which sounded anachronistic in the context of the film, and looked like an MTV video had been spliced in. Then there was the song written by the Bee Gees, the disco-infused *Grease Is the Word*, sung by Frankie Valle, another oddball anachronism. Then there's the miscasting of former teen heartthrob Frankie Avalon as Teen Angel, who was only able to sing *Beauty School Dropout* after it was lowered from a 1st tenor range down to a baritone range, which robbed the song of a great deal of its charm. To cover up the lukewarm vocal delivery a production number was staged around him.

The finale song, "_*I'm All Choked Up*_" was sacked, replaced by "*You're The One That I Want*". And then Danny and Sandy drive the car Greased Lightning into the sky, a rather headscratching eyerolling moment.

Oh, and Olivia Newton-John couldn't manage an American accent, so Sandy's backstory (and last name) had to be changed.

The film version received only one Oscar nomination.


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## jegreenwood

Can anyone comment on Peter O'Toole in _Man of La Mancha_ or Elizabeth Taylor in _A Little Night Music_? I have to admit I passed on both of them.


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## pianozach

jegreenwood said:


> Can anyone comment on Peter O'Toole in _Man of La Mancha_ or Elizabeth Taylor in _A Little Night Music_? I have to admit I passed on both of them.


Again . . . great actors not known for being great singers (or singers at all), cast in major singing roles.

Why would you do this when there are performers that excel at both acting AND singing?


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## jegreenwood

Another one I passed on.


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## Sloe

jegreenwood said:


> Another one I passed on.


I like that Paint Your Wagon is real:


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## elgar's ghost

It was bad enough having _Wand'rin' Star_ as a no.1 hit single over here. I was only 6 at the time but I absolutely loathed the song then and I still do now. I have always managed to avoid hearing Eastwood's b-side.


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## jegreenwood

elgars ghost said:


> It was bad enough having _Wand'rin' Star_ as a no.1 hit single over here. I was only 6 at the time but I absolutely loathed the song then and I still do now. I have always managed to avoid hearing Eastwood's b-side.


I had no idea it was a hit.


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## Sloe

Christabel said:


> Rita Hayworth way too old for this role and trying to compete with Kim Novak!!!


She was not even 40 at that time so I do not think she was too old unless she played a teenager but she appearantly played a widow.


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## MAS

jegreenwood said:


> Another one I passed on.


This was a disaster all-round. Didn't they see the rushes? I can say the same for *Mame*. One look at the first song and they should've cancelled the film.


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## pianozach

jegreenwood said:


> Another one I passed on.


LOL. *The Simpsons* did a great send-up of it.


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## Luchesi

pianozach said:


> Again . . . great actors not known for being great singers (or singers at all), cast in major singing roles.
> 
> Why would you do this when there are performers that excel at both acting AND singing?


Probably because they're thinking more about making money on the production than they are about good singing or attractive singing. They assume they know what sells tickets, they can dismiss the critics.

It's really interesting what you said about Grease the movie. I liked everything that you thought was wrong with it, as I approach it for its musical merit.


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