# Fugue in a song by Lady Gaga!



## MusicalOffering

First off, I would just like to inform everyone that I seldom, if ever, listen to any of Lady Gaga's work. However, when I watched this music video for one of her songs, "Bad Romance"; I was amazed when I heard the introduction to it. For some reason, a baroque fugue is played at the beginning (in an electronic fashion). I was rather pleasently surprised by this, a reference that perhaps the largest part of her target group is unaware of. The explanation to this might be that there is a certain degree of fugal singing at the climax of the song. The fugatto itself is not very impresive though.

Not much to discuss really, thought it would be interesting to point out.

Also, it would seem as if I cannot place my finger on which fugue it actually is. Sounds like something out of the Well Tempered Clavier. Does anyone have a clue? The link to the video: 



 (ignore everything after 0:11, it get's rather explicit after that).


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## Weston

Bah - not to be a curmudgeon, but it's been done by far better and with more integrity in a "pop" setting decades before her.






the actual fugue part starts at about 0:49


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## sara

According to Wikipedia you're right on the money MusicalOffering! 

_'She is surrounded by several people and her signature harlequin Great Dane. She has her finger on the mute button of an iPod speaker (from which a synthesized excerpt of the fugue in B minor from Book 1 of the Well-Tempered Clavier by Johann Sebastian Bach emanates as an intro to the music video), and when she presses it, "Bad Romance" begins to play.'_

I wonder if there are more 'recent artists' out there sampling the classics? The only other recent artist I can think of is Beyonce. A track on her recent album features a sample of Bach/Gounod's 'Ave Maria'. The name of the track is... hehe you guessed it, Ave Maria!






And this is a weird coincidence... I tried listening to Gaga's entire album today but had trouble listening to it after the 4th song (to be honest I got a little bored...) so I ended up turning that off and listened to Shostakovich's 15th Symphony for the first time instead.

So I was very surprised to hear (and this is sort of related to the 'sampling classics' topic) that Shostakovic included little bits of Rossini's 'William Tell Overture' and bits of Wagner in his 15th Symphony!


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## Polednice

Weston said:


> Bah - not to be a curmudgeon, but it's been done by far better and with more integrity in a "pop" setting decades before her.


That doesn't surprise me. When I listened to the clip on YouTube, I was expecting it to be some way integral to the piece, or at least have an actual purpose. Instead, it seems like someone has gone onto IMSLP, searched for Bach, taken a random fugue and said, 'What the hell, let's put that on a synthesiser. Yeah? Doooooood!'


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## MusicalOffering

Weston said:


> Bah - not to be a curmudgeon, but it's been done by far better and with more integrity in a "pop" setting decades before her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the actual fugue part starts at about 0:49


Yes, I agree with you completely. The fact that they used the b minor fugue (which sara pointed out, thanks) in a such a horrific rendition is ghastly. To be honest, the main reason I had trouble identifying the fugue might have been because of their decision to speed it up to a rather fast pace (at least if you compare it to Gould's version). And while I had a theory regarding the point with the fugue, it's too weak to justify the exploitation of the piece.

But it is rather interesting to see one of the biggest pop stars on the planet using a Bach fugue as an intro, altought the result left alot to be desired.


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## Jaime77

There is Lady Gaga and there is Bach. Some Lady Gaga I like but I prefer Bach  The two should be kept seperate. Borrowing however happens and when it does happen... all bets are off. Approaching Gaga from the same critical viewpoint as one would approach a recording by a classical musician is ludicrous. Usually results in sarcastic or condescending remarks about the pop musician. 

Forget pop for a moment, if a bunch of brilliant folk musicians from Cuba heard Bach and mixed it into their playing, would it be any different? No. If a top jazz musician who never knew Bach wrote a fugue or what a fugue was, worked it into one of his improvisations or used it as an intro should we analyse it from a classical perspective? Of course not. Different genres demand a different way of listening and a different critical angle. This is pop music and to that end, this 'baroque-sounding music' captures whatever sound or atmosphere she wanted to convey, something kind of gothic or antique. Within this context it therefore works and that is all needs to be said. 

Not that I am saying it isn't interesting for us to know what fugue it is, purely as a matter of curiosity. That's all.


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## Argus

jaibyrne said:


> If a top jazz musician who never knew Bach wrote a fugue or what a fugue was, worked it into one of his improvisations or used it as an intro should we analyse it from a classical perspective?


You've given me enough of an excuse to post this gem.

Modern Jazz Quartet


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## David58117

MusicalOffering said:


> And while I had a theory regarding the point with the fugue, it's too weak to justify the exploitation of the piece.


Exploitation? Are you kidding? It's not like millions of classical music fans are going to hear the intro and listen to her music because of it.

Like it or not, the main portion of the song is what is popular and what the masses want to hear..not the first 20 seconds of the bach intro. So no, I don't think it's exploitation.


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## Jaime77

_You've given me enough of an excuse to post this gem.

Modern Jazz Quartet

_

I love it!


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## rojo

I wonder if Bach is credited in the album notes. If not, then tsk tsk. lol


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## rojo

Say, I wonder if Gaga came up with that P-p-p-poker Face lyric after listening to the _Magic Flute._ I mean, if she knows some Bach, chances are she knows some Mozart, right?


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## Huilunsoittaja

rojo said:


> I mean, if she knows some Bach, chances are she knows some Mozart, right?/
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I think that very likely. Although many contemporary artists don't admit it, the really intelligent ones often listen to classical music. I think Lady Gaga's music is very intelligent (for it's genre/style), and she's musically talented, so I think she would be attracted to more complex music.
Click to expand...


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## rojo

^ Well, she can play a reasonably decent piano from what I've seen / heard, and studied music at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts according to her bio, which I just looked up. Chances are fairly high that she would have come into contact with the famous Papageno / Papagena duet at some point, I guess. However, I haven't heard mention that she was influenced by it. Not that I've checked into it. The connection _is_ seeming more plausible though, it seems..

I found her recent video, _Telephone_, to be her best work yet. I'm not a Gaga fan per se, but I will say that I think she's one of the most, if not _the_ most, refreshing and interesting thing to happen to pop music since.. well, since Michael Jackson. Minus the lightning dance moves and top of the line vocals, of course. Not that she's a bad singer by any means. It'll be interesting to see if this girl has staying power. She's got a lot going for her, and she's off to a great start.

Sidenote: Just to mention, MJ was an avid listener, and spoke of his love for classical music fairly often. Guess he felt free to admit it. His fav. composers were Debussy and Tchaikovsky. 

Edit: Good grief, to think I thought this way only a couple of years ago. Things do change... :lol:


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## MusicalOffering

Interesting theory regarding the Pokerface song and the link with the Papegeno/a duet. Truth be told, I have never actually seen the connection between the two, but when you mentioned it; it became rather apparent. 

Now, I might despise her explicit videos and the atrocious way she dresses, but she is most likely alot more talented as far as music is concerned than I'll ever be.


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## Ravellian

I found it particularly interesting she quoted Bach with that song, since "Bad Romance" is basically a rebellion song against the music industry. Maybe she's hinting that things should be the way they 'used to be,' like when Bach was around?


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## rojo

Gaga strikes again. She used Vittorio Monti work _Czardas_ in her song _Alejandro._ And why not, it's a neat piece.


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## 151

sara said:


> I wonder if there are more 'recent artists' out there sampling the classics? The only other recent artist I can think of is Beyonce.




Y'all act like you never heard of hip-hop before.



Polednice said:


> it seems like someone has gone onto IMSLP, searched for Bach, taken a random fugue and said, 'What the hell, let's put that on a *synthesiser**. Yeah? Doooooood!'


*Sampler.**

Seriously though, Lady Gaga is awful, talentless, commercial smut.


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## stijn

*Fugue Bach*



MusicalOffering said:


> First off, I would just like to inform everyone that I seldom, if ever, listen to any of Lady Gaga's work. However, when I watched this music video for one of her songs, "Bad Romance"; I was amazed when I heard the introduction to it. For some reason, a baroque fugue is played at the beginning (in an electronic fashion). I was rather pleasently surprised by this, a reference that perhaps the largest part of her target group is unaware of. The explanation to this might be that there is a certain degree of fugal singing at the climax of the song. The fugatto itself is not very impresive though.
> 
> Not much to discuss really, thought it would be interesting to point out.
> 
> Also, it would seem as if I cannot place my finger on which fugue it actually is. Sounds like something out of the Well Tempered Clavier. Does anyone have a clue? The link to the video:
> 
> 
> 
> (ignore everything after 0:11, it get's rather explicit after that).


Hello everyone,

I'm from the Netherlands and I am a very big Bach-fan. The moment I heard the intro of Lady Gaga's
Bad Romance, I noticed the fugue that was played. Luckily, I was just practicing some fugues and
preludes from Das Wohltemperierte Klavier, so I knew which fugue it was. For those of you who
want to know which fugue it is; it is the very last fugue of the first part of Das Wohltemperierte Klavier.
It is, to be more specific, the fugue from Bwv 869. If you want to check it, listen from 4:23 and you will hear it. 




Thanks!

Stijn


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## jani

Gaga also uses Beethovens pathique on one of her music vids.


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## violadude

stijn said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm from the Netherlands and I am a very big Bach-fan. The moment I heard the intro of Lady Gaga's
> Bad Romance, I noticed the fugue that was played. Luckily, I was just practicing some fugues and
> preludes from Das Wohltemperierte Klavier, so I knew which fugue it was. For those of you who
> want to know which fugue it is; it is the very last fugue of the first part of Das Wohltemperierte Klavier.
> It is, to be more specific, the fugue from Bwv 869. If you want to check it, listen from 4:23 and you will hear it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Stijn


Oh damn! It is that fugue! That's one of my favorite fugues from that book and I couldn't even recognize it in the Gaga video because of the bastardly tempo they play it in!


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## Arsakes

Making a song popular, using an old music piece by dumbing down it in a pop or rock work (techno,electrical) is disgraceful and I'm smart enough not to fall into it.


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## elgar's ghost

I think the Byrds used a baroque ensemble to play a snippet on their song 'Old John Robertson' - quite nice, too.


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## TrazomGangflow

Ravellian said:


> I found it particularly interesting she quoted Bach with that song, since "Bad Romance" is basically a rebellion song against the music industry. Maybe she's hinting that things should be the way they 'used to be,' like when Bach was around?


Good point. If things were the way they were when Bach was around, Lady Gaga would actually need some talent.


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## Ravndal

as stated before in this thread, lady gaga used to have talent


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## Praeludium

She might just be a cultivated person and musician preferring money and fame to great music.


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## violadude

Arsakes said:


> Making a song popular, using an old music piece by dumbing down it in a pop or rock work (techno,electrical) is disgraceful and* I'm smart enough not to fall into it.*


:clap::clap::clap:

Congratulations. Have a cookie.


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## Philip

Arsakes said:


> Making a song popular, using an old music piece by dumbing down it in a pop or rock work (techno,electrical) is disgraceful and I'm smart enough not to fall into it.


It's called sampling. Most people couldn't care less about that intro anyway, it's more of a _clin d'oeil_ to the elitists.


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## violadude

I have newfound respect for Lady Gaga ever since I saw Bill O'Rilley freaking out about her music video for "Telephone" (apparently, seeing Lady Gaga's *** will corrupt the children forever). You know you're doing something right when you manage to upset Fox News.


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## Sid James

Arsakes said:


> Making a song popular, using an old music piece by dumbing down it in a pop or rock work (techno,electrical) is disgraceful and I'm smart enough not to fall into it.


But its not much different in classical, has been done for ages, but the other way round. Eg. Haydn putting heaps of stuff he would have heard on the streets of London into his symphonies - eg. bagpipe drones, bells tolling, fiddlers on streets and in drinking establishments, high and low. I see it just as mixing 'high' and 'low' arts. & often I see very little difference between them.

People earlier in the thread (eg. Argus) where right, its been done in jazz for ages. Claude Bolling, Dave Brubeck, Jacques Loussier, to name three have all incorporated music of J.S. Bach. & the bit in the middle of Nina Simone's 'Love me or leave me' is pure ersatz Bach (she was a classically trained pianist) -





We could talk for ages about this sort of thing (in fact, I think I have but ages ago) -
http://www.talkclassical.com/12123-non-classical-fusions-classical.html


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## Trout

What about Fugue _on_ a song by Lady Gaga?


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## BurningDesire

Philip said:


> It's called sampling. Most people couldn't care less about that intro anyway, it's more of a _clin d'oeil_ to the elitists.


Actually its called musical quotation (though sampling is a form of that technique). Its an old as dirt compositional technique. Goes all the way back to good ol' plainchant.


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## Philip

BurningDesire said:


> Actually its called musical quotation (though sampling is a form of that technique). Its an old as dirt compositional technique. Goes all the way back to good ol' plainchant.


I was talking about what i quoted.


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## BurningDesire

Lady Gaga really isn't that bad. I mean, she's not amazing, but she incorporates some pretty interesting harmonies in her work, and unlike alot of pop musicians, she actually composes the music she sings and plays. Its pretty silly to get all bent out of shape because she quoted Bach. I personally think that is kind of cool. The view of some classical fans that pop and rock and electronic music is all insipid garbage really pisses me off, and really betrays their ignorance, just as much as with a pop music fan dismissing classical music.


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## Philip

The Fame Monster is a very good album.


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