# Round One: Lehar- Vilja. Graham and Sutherland



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I was going to do O mio bambino caro but T-London said I had done it already and named people I planned to use. I couldn't find it but I thought I'd wait a year. I am doing an aria I really love: Vilja. I haven't featured the beautiful Susan Graham before but she is great here. I don't normally allow myself to post later Sutherland with this crowd but her stronger low voice is much more effective here than in her 1966 studio version and like Graham she really gets into the aria in this version. She sings it in English.

A Vilja who lived by a cool forest glade Had fallen asleep in the deep leafy shade A hunter came near to the place where she lay Entranced by her beauty he'd not look away Suddenly the nymph awoke and music filled the air above So he sighed, swearing his eternal love Vilja Oh Vilja, Oh nymph of delights Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you (Chorus) Vilja Oh Vilja, a nymph of delights Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you She then cast a spell with a wave of her hand Transporting him into a strange fairyland No mortal had viewed such enchanting delight Then escorted her home for one magical night Suddenly, at break of day she vanished to go far away Hill and dale echoed with his mournful tale Vilja Oh Vilja , Oh Nymph of delight Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you. (Chorus) Vilja, Oh Vilja, Oh Nymph of delight Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you Oh Vilja, Vilja




Susan Graham sings in English, Vilja from Lehar's "The Merry Widow". Loren Maazel Conducts the New York Philharmonic here is the text, sing along:




Joan Sutherland Lincoln Center
We didn't need HDTV- WE HAD VOICES THEN.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Susan Graham - lovely rendition - clear and bright - beautiful voice - effortlessly soaring - perfectly enunciated English - expressive, yet not overplayed...

Sutherland... This is the first time that I genuinely understood the criticism of her enunciation as I found her to be virtually unintelligible - all vowels and no consonants - and could not say with any degree of certainty just what language she may have been singing in. 

Graham without hesitation - Graham without waiting to see who everyone else voted for before jumping on the hipster bandwagon - Graham, even if I stand alone...


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I can't say I particularly enjoyed either of these. Sutherland's wobble was quite distracting though. Graham by default.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This is an interesting one. I don't like Graham and so I'm expecting to vote for Sutherland. I don't know if further rounds are planned, but I find it difficult to listen to anyone other than Schwarzkopf or Studer in this (it's that kind of rep that they sang so well).

Graham is pleasant, but I don't hear much that makes this anything more than that. She does have a wonderful floating quality on the high notes that I like though.

Sutherland's version is something else. Her diction is very old fashioned (not that I mind that), but she has much more core to her voice than Graham. Sutherland gives us a performance that places the piece at the end of the 19th century light music tradition, whereas Graham looks ahead to the jazz era.

I think in some ways neither _really _does it for me, but Sutherland has more personality and it's quite something to hear such a large voice in this piece.

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Joan Sutherland had some productions mounted for her in late career, one of which was *The Merry Widow*, presumably because she didn’t die at the end. The best I can say about the Sutherland video is that her diction is occasionally intelligible. it is an easy sing for her and, to me, it is a waste, though I’m not a fan. San Francisco was one of the companies that mounted the operetta for her (as well as *Die Fledermaus*).

Neither am I a fan of Susan Graham, whose video is recorded at a very low volume. She is in much younger voice than Sutherland, as well as having better diction as she sings off the words, whereas Sutherland‘s approach is predicated on voice production. Nevertheless, not every word is understood.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> This is an interesting one. I don't like Graham and so I'm expecting to vote for Sutherland. I don't know if further rounds are planned, but I find it difficult to listen to anyone other than Schwarzkopf or Studer in this (it's that kind of rep that they sang so well).
> 
> Graham is pleasant, but I don't hear much that makes this anything more than that. She does have a wonderful floating quality on the high notes that I like though.
> 
> ...


Schwarzkopf is coming in an approved video. I wish I could post Studer.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I would love to see Graham live. She is a fine singer and very beautiful. My issue with her is that she doesn't really sound like a mezzo and she has an anonymous sound to me. Live and in a role I could get around these issues.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I would love to see Graham live. She is a fine singer and very beautiful. My issue with her is that she doesn't really sound like a mezzo and she has an anonymous sound to me. Live and in a role I could get around these issues.


She has flirted with soprano roles in her career (*Iphigenie en Tauris*, for instance, as well as *Die lustige Witwe*).


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

It was pretty thrilling to be able to finally hear and comprehend some of what the others have been writing about even though I disagree and still prefer Graham's version - Great curating by the way - Super strong selections - My compliments!"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'd just been listening to Schwarzkopf before this and that rather spoiled me as neither of these renditions are in her class. This is late for Sutherland, though her diction, if hardly perfect, is a bit better than it often was. The voice has developed quite a beat by this time, but it still retains its beauty and the last floated high note was lovely (though I note that she gives up on words to get the effect she wants).

Graham is just a bit ordinary and I thought she took it too slow as well. We get to hear more of the words, but she didn't hold my interest and I just got bored.

I'm rather surprising myself and voting for Sutherland, because she made the piece more intersting.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I would love to see Graham live. She is a fine singer and very beautiful. My issue with her is that she doesn't really sound like a mezzo and she has an anonymous sound to me. Live and in a role I could get around these issues.


I have seen her live, as Chérubin in Massenet's opera and she was terrific. I also have a disc of her singing French operetta arias, which is great fun Susan Graham – French Operetta Arias I recommend it to anyone wh enjoys lighter fare now and them.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I have seen her live, as Chérubin in Massenet's opera and she was terrific. I also have a disc of her singing French operetta arias, which is great fun Susan Graham – French Operetta Arias I recommend it to anyone wh enjoys lighter fare now and them.


It is a beautiful if generic voice but she is a good musician and is so attractive both in person and personality. I'm glad you got to see her. Isn't she towering like Goerke? 6' or so?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd just been listening to Schwarzkopf before this and that rather spoiled me as neither of these renditions are in her class. This is late for Sutherland, though her diction, if hardly perfect, is a bit better than it often was. The voice has developed quite a beat by this time, but it still retains its beauty and the last floated high note was lovely (though I note that she gives up on words to get the effect she wants).
> 
> Graham is just a bit ordinary and I thought she took it too slow as well. We get to hear more of the words, but she didn't hold my interest and I just got bored.
> 
> I'm rather surprising myself and voting for Sutherland, because she made the piece more intersting.


I know most of you aren't so crazy about late Sutherland but I thought this might work because she got better with her physical performances as she gained in confidence and I thought she really sold this aria, which is important to you and others.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *I know most of you aren't so crazy about late Sutherland* but I thought this might work because she got better with her physical performances as she gained in confidence and I thought she really sold this aria, which is important to you and others.


I really can't tell late Sutherland from early Sutherland as I just don't have the same level of extensive listening experience that the others have. One thing that I can hear - more so now that I've heard her sing in English - is that Southerland's enunciation really is as problematic as the others have always claimed and in this instance, apparently it isn't even all that bad which makes me wonder what she can possibly sound like when she is all that bad - I genuinely couldn't understand the words - They seem to be all vowels and no consonants - but I did enjoy being exposed to the selection as the more I hear the more I will learn. Maybe next time try "middle Sutherland" -


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Here's a nice one with Eleanor Steber on the radio, inevitably _Voice of Firestone_, from 1946, that you might use -






- only, NOT the "Live from the Continental Baths" one from 30 years later, OK?

Text is the one used in the 1907 hit Broadway production, still the best one in English IMHO -

There once was a vilia, a witch of the wood,
A hunter beheld her alone as she stood,
The spell of her beauty upon him was laid,
He looked and he longed for the magical maid!
For a sudden tremor ran,
Right through the love bewildered man,
And he sighed, as a hapless lover can.

"Vilia, O Vilia! The witch of the wood!
Would I not die for you, dear, if I could?
Vilia, O Vilia, my love and my bride!"
Softly and sadly he sighed.

The wood maiden smiled, and no answer she gave,
But beckoned him into the shade of the cave;
He never had known such a rapturous bliss,
No maiden of mortals so sweetly can kiss!
As before her feet he lay,
She vanished in the wood away,
And he called vainly till his dying day!

"Vilia, O Vilia! The witch of the wood!
Would I not die for you, dear, if I could?
Vilia, O Vilia, my love and my bride!"
Softly and sadly he sighed.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I really can't tell late Sutherland from early Sutherland as I just don't have the same level of extensive listening experience that the others have. One thing that I can hear - more so now that I've heard her sing in English - is that Southerland's enunciation really is as problematic as the others have always claimed and in this instance, apparently it isn't even all that bad which makes me wonder what she can possibly sound like when she is all that bad - I genuinely couldn't understand the words - They seem to be all vowels and no consonants - but I did enjoy being exposed to the selection as the more I hear the more I will learn. Maybe next time try "middle Sutherland" -


I remember one critic saying that she reduced every single vowel to 'aw' and just didn't bother with the consonants. It's a bit harsh, but I can hear what he meant. I don't speak Italian but I learned my Italian opera through the likes of Callas, Di Stefano and Gobbi, all of whom not only had superb diction but used the words tellingly. With Sutherland she could have been singing in Urdu for all the sense she made of the words. I realise there are some people for whom this makes no difference, but for me it's a very important part of the listening experience.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

*Cheryl Studer* in the _Vilja-Lied_, with piano accompaniment.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> Here's a nice one with Eleanor Steber on the radio, inevitably _Voice of Firestone_, from 1946, that you might use -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I switched her for Fleming in the next round.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *I switched her for Fleming in the next round.*


Switch Steber for Moffo... Objectively speaking, I think she makes for a significantly more credible Hanna Glawari singing the_ Vilja-Lied _in Lehar's_ Die Lustige Witwe..._













Spoiler: Vilia from "The Merry Widow" - Anna Moffo


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I remember one critic saying that she reduced every single vowel to 'aw' and just didn't bother with the consonants. It's a bit harsh, but I can hear what he meant. I don't speak Italian but I learned my Italian opera through the likes of Callas, Di Stefano and Gobbi, all of whom not only had superb diction but used the words tellingly. With Sutherland she could have been singing in Urdu for all the sense she made of the words. I realise there are some people for whom this makes no difference, but for me it's a very important part of the listening experience.


One of the critics called Sutherland “The Queen of Esperanto.” For those who’ve never heard of it, Esperanto was an invented language by a Polish doctor, supposed to be used for international communications. It is supposedly a mixture of several of the European languages (French, English, Spanish, German and, of course, Polish),


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> One of the critics called Sutherland “The Queen of Esperanto.” For those who’ve never heard of it, Esperanto was an invented language by a Polish doctor, supposed to be used for international communications. It is supposedly a mixture of several of the European languages (French English, Spanish, German and, of course, Polish),


I must be without refinement as she could be singing in Icelandic and I wouldn't care as I love her singing so! Of course I am completely illiterate in the common languages of opera. I don't even pay attention to English in most pop songs to be honest.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

For all you chest vice voice fans out there, here's Zarah Leander doing it in a 1940 potpourri 78 (4:40 in)


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I was going to do O mio bambino caro but T-London said I had done it already and named people I planned to use. I couldn't find it but I thought I'd wait a year. I am doing an aria I really love: Vilja. I haven't featured the beautiful Susan Graham before but she is great here. I don't normally allow myself to post later Sutherland with this crowd but her stronger low voice is much more effective here than in her 1966 studio version and like Graham she really gets into the aria in this version. She sings it in English.
> 
> A Vilja who lived by a cool forest glade Had fallen asleep in the deep leafy shade A hunter came near to the place where she lay Entranced by her beauty he'd not look away Suddenly the nymph awoke and music filled the air above So he sighed, swearing his eternal love Vilja Oh Vilja, Oh nymph of delights Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you (Chorus) Vilja Oh Vilja, a nymph of delights Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you She then cast a spell with a wave of her hand Transporting him into a strange fairyland No mortal had viewed such enchanting delight Then escorted her home for one magical night Suddenly, at break of day she vanished to go far away Hill and dale echoed with his mournful tale Vilja Oh Vilja , Oh Nymph of delight Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you. (Chorus) Vilja, Oh Vilja, Oh Nymph of delight Haunting the woodland, enchanting the night Vilja Oh Vilja be tender, be true Love me and I'll die for you Oh Vilja, Vilja
> 
> ...


It's unusual for me to listen to opereta. I'll give my vote to Sutherland, but Graham was good as well.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Sutherland... This is the first time that I genuinely understood the criticism of her enunciation as I found her to be virtually unintelligible - all vowels and no consonants - and could not say with any degree of certainty just what language she may have been singing in.


I admit, it took me quite a long time to determine it is English. But then, the libretto given by @Seattleoperafan helped. Although she had a slightly different version.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish I could post Studer.


Try and see what happens.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Joan Sutherland had some productions mounted for her in late career, one of which was *The Merry Widow*, presumably because she didn’t die at the end.


Didn't she like dying, or what ?

I ask, because I have read that Semiramis was modified by Bonynge for her to survive the opera


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Callas, unlike Sutherland, was very understandable, meant every word, and I imagine her just having all day long that processing at the back of her brain, which of the words should be accented, where to use chest voice etc.

At the same time, is Sutherland _that_ bad with words ? For an opera singer ? (For someone who is not Maria Callas ?) Also, she lived in Australia. I couldn't understand Australin English in a movie when I tried.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

It's operetta. It should be funny. So, Sutherland! 
(I can't explain why, but she seemed to look like Julia Child. A _cuisine _musical).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Callas, unlike Sutherland, was very understandable, meant every word, and I imagine her just having all day long that processing at the back of her brain, which of the words should be accented, where to use chest voice etc.
> 
> At the same time, is Sutherland _that_ bad with words ? For an opera singer ? (For someone who is not Maria Callas ?) Also, she lived in Australia. I couldn't understand Australin English in a movie when I tried.


In a word, yes. Not always, I would add. In her earlier days when she was working with Italian conductors, Serafin for her first Lucias at Covent Garden, Santi and Molinari-Pradelli for her first recitals, it wasn't bad at all. She may not have made words "tell" in the way they did with Callas, but you could hear most of the words. When she worked almost exclusively with Bonynge, his emphasis was on beauty of sound over verbal acuity. There is a middle period when it's hard to make out any words at all. You can really hear the difference in some of those recordings in which she was paired with Pavarrotti whose diction was always superb, even when he was singing in French. His French _pronuniciation _wasn't very good, but his _diction _is so clear you can hear how bad his French is. With Sutherland, it was often hard to know what language she was singing in.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Didn't she like dying, or what ?
> 
> I ask, because I have read that Semiramis was modified by Bonynge for her to survive the opera


Sutherland was by nature a very sunny cheerful personality. She could pull off the tragic lady when the part required and the supremely grand diva in concert but her favorite part was The Daughter of the Regiment where she could be funny. I think also as you get older falling down ( you have to do this when you die) and having to get back up again gets harder. It would for me.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> ... she was paired with Pavarrotti whose diction was always superb, even when he was singing in French. His French _pronuniciation _wasn't very good, but his _diction _is so clear you can hear how bad his French is.


So I probably prefer to have the whole thing slightly blurred rather than hear a bad pronunciation to be clearly bad. She didn't bother me in Norma, unlike other singers who replace "e" with "i".


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