# Les Six



## Sid James

*Les Six* is a name associated with a group of six composers who came together in the Montparnasse district of Paris in 1920. Their music is often seen as a reaction against Wagnerism and Impressionism. The group consisted of:

*Georges Auric *(1899-1983), 
*Louis Durey* (1888-1979), 
*Arthur Honegger* (1892-1955), 
*Darius Milhaud* (1892-1974), 
*Francis Poulenc* (1899-1963) & 
*Germaine Tailleferre* (1892-1983)

They originally around and found a degree of inspiration from the idiosyncratic composer *Erik Satie *(1866-1925) but they eventually broke away and formed their own respective styles, which echoed his disdain for the conventions of the time.

The context was post WWI Paris, which had become the world's leading arts centre, attracting people as diverse as Diaghilev, Picasso and Gershwin.

Their music is very different, though. *Auric* is mainly known for his film scores, whilst *Milhaud* was influenced by Jazz and the folk music of his native Provence. *Poulenc*, one of the first openly gay artists, was the most versatile of the group, producing songs, chamber works, ballets, operas and concertos. Perhaps the most serious composer of the lot was *Honegger*, who produced the orchestral showpiece _Pacific 231_ and the profound _Symphonie Liturgique_. I have not heard any of the music of the other two, *Durey* or *Tailleferre*. This would be interesting , especially as the latter was the only female member of the group.

About a year ago I came across a set of LP's with music by these composers. I regret not buying it. I have seperate CD's of Milhaud & Honegger, and have some Poulenc songs. I am interested in what people's knowledge and opinion is of these composers. They don't seem to be as popular as they deserve, considering that they seemed to be very innovative, and went against the grain of the musical establishment.


----------



## Lang

Of the six, my favourites are Honegger and Poulenc. IMO Honegger is one of the major figures of the twentieth century. His symphonies rank among the very finest, and his music dramas are unsurpassed. Jeanne d'Arc au Bucher is one of the most moving works I have ever heard. 

Poulenc is again a somewhat underrated composer. I am currenly doing MIDI transcriptions of the songs, Banalites, and the Promenades for Piano. His style is a curious mixture, and can go from extreme disssonance to Debussyian voluptuousness from one bar to the next. La Voix Humaine, a one act opera with one character, a woman who is carrying on a conversation by phone with her ex-lover, is very moving and dramatic. He has created a very varied output, with such gems as the Concert Champetre, for Harpsichord and Orchestra.

Milhaud can be great, but he can also be awful. My favourite works are the Saudades do Brasil, a collection of orchestral Brasilian dances, and the Suite Provencale. But also he has to be credited with the worst symphony ever written (in my opinion) - number six for large orchestra.

Auric, I think is very much a lesser light. Durey I have never heard. I did hear something by Tailleferre once a long time ago, and thought it was quite good.


----------



## JTech82

I have heard Honegger, Poulenc, and Milhaud. I'm not really a fan of any of them. In my honest opinion, it was crazy to form a group that's basically _against_ the music of Wagner and the Impressionistic movement. I mean it's like this "Let's rebel against good music! Yay!!" The whole thing just seems silly to me.


----------



## handlebar

I agree with Lang regarding the Honegger symphonies. Very well written and a delight to listen to.
Poulenc charms me with his piano works and vocal pieces as well. Milhaud i admire but have not investigated enough to more more informed quotes about.
Same goes for the other three.

Jim


----------



## Lisztfreak

Honegger, I agree with Jim and Lang, is a true master - brilliant symphonies, especially the 'inside' ones (in between Nos. 1 and 5). I have only heard these plus Pacific 231 (which is a blockbuster piece) and Rugby - I'm planning to buy Le roi David and Jeanne d'Arc au bucher asap.

Poulenc is not so... serious, let's say, but his chamber music rocks, particularly the wind sonatas. They're sublime. Also wrote very listenable and accessible songs.

Milhaud is strange, I have yet to grasp him. I've heard the 4th and 8th symphonies, not bad, Piano Concerto No.4 (I don't like it) and Ballade for piano and orchestra (with Brazilian rhythms, very nice).

The other members I haven't heard.


----------



## Sid James

Of what I have heard of them, their music is quite memorable.

I still remember the striking opening theme of Auric's film score from _The Lavender Hill Mob _(1951), even though I saw the film more than 10 years ago. It complemented the scene of inner city London, with grand buildings like the bank of England, perfectly. Funnily enough, it sounded very British to me.

Same goes with Poulenc. I once had a tape of the _Piano Concerto, Les Biches_ ballet & the _Gloria_. Although I no longer have it, the tunes still linger in my head sometimes. They are good quality works in their respective genres, and are easy to listen to. It must also be said that Poulenc became somewhat religious near the end of his life, and I think the _Gloria_ is a very good example of this. It's definitely one of the great choral pieces of the C20th.

From Milhaud, I have the delectable_ Scaramouche _for saxophone & orchestra, and have heard his _Le Boeuf sur le Toit (The Ox on the Roof)_. He seems to have a very light style, but it is quite an individual voice. I'd like to get more of his stuff.

& I have a naxos cd of Honegger's _Symphonie Liturgique_ & orchestral movements like _Pacific 231 _& _Rugby_. I think the symphonie is a very profound & moving piece (esp. the slow movt.), reflecting on the horrors of WWII. I think it is on par with Hindemith's _Mathis der maler symphony_.

The last two are the ones I have heard nothing about, like people above. They seemed to have dissappeared off the radar somewhat. But if I see anything by them, I will probably buy it.


----------



## andruini

i too have only heard works from the three better-known composers.. 
i really admire Poulenc's Gloria.. i found an old LP of it in my dad's collection and was just blown away, i still like to listen to it from time to time..
also mentioned, Milhaud's Scaramouche.. what a superb piece.. though i heard it performed on a clarinet once, and i must say i prefer it so..
and Honegger, the Symphonie Liturgique, i think, is one of the best French orchestral pieces ever written.. 
it's been a big item in my to-do list to check out more of these three composers, and now my interested is peaked on the other three.. i do love that French 20th Century music..


----------



## Lisztfreak

I forgot Poulenc's Concerto for Organ, Strings and Timpani. One of the very first pieces I've heard of 20th-century music, and it made me explore further! Still, it is very neo-classical. And there are some terrific, huge clusters on the organ in the introduction section.


----------



## Sid James

Yeah, I think *Poulenc*'s _Concerto for Organ, Strings and Timpani_, is a great work. The ascending theme played by the organ against a background of strings, which makes its appearance at the beginning & end, is so gripping & memorable. Anyone who dismisses the work of _Les Six _as trivial or superficial should listen to this work. In my opinion, it thoroughly beats Saint-Saens' similar effort, _Symphony No. 3 'Organ Symphony_.' The Poulenc _Concert_o provides much more of a visceral experience & is more profound.


----------



## confuoco

Poulenc is the most melody-gifted composer of the 20th century. His was very musical and talented by nature, unfortunately his personality and art preferencies allow him to compose only works of limited deepness. As with other great composers, his style is original and individual, undoubtedly recognized from few measures of work. His operas are probably the best French operas of the 20th century.


----------



## Mirror Image

Poulenc is a composer I just can't take that seriously for some reason. I've heard his Concerto For Organ, his Concerto for 2 pianos, Les Biches, and Gloria, which I feel is probably his greatest composition.

I still feel that this group of composers really had nothing to rebel against. I mean historically they were all trying to move away from Wagner and impressionism, but I have not heard one piece of music by Poulenc, Honegger, or Milhaud that I didn't have a hard time grasping. Mahler I had no problem. Bruckner I had some difficulty, but I always had a deep admiration for. Ravel I liked every freaking note I heard. Anyway, my point is it's not that I don't think these composers were talented and gifted. That goes without question, but I just can't get into them at all, especially Honegger, Milhaud, and Poulenc.


----------



## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I still feel that this group of composers really had nothing to rebel against. I mean historically they were all trying to move away from Wagner and impressionism, but I have not heard one piece of music by Poulenc, Honegger, or Milhaud that I didn't have a hard time grasping...Anyway, my point is it's not that I don't think these composers were talented and gifted. That goes without question, but I just can't get into them at all...


Maybe they were rebelling just for the sake of it, much like the Dadaist movement in the visual arts. There's alot of whimsy, and a sense of fun, joie de vivre, in some of the works of the less serious ones, Milhaud & Poulenc. Like _Les Biches_, which you mention, & some of Milhaud's work (like the famous _Ox on the Roof_), are like parodies of high art, kind of art for art's sake, if you like. I don't think we're meant to receive it the same way as obviously more serious composers (like Bruckner & Mahler), which they were trying to get away from. We must also remember that by the 1920's, even impressionism was beginning to become more part of 'the establishment.' It was no longer really avant garde, in either music, painting or literature. & of course, the horrors of WWI had exposed the absurdity of modern life. Here you had a bunch of (supposedly) civilised nations, which couldn't wait to tear eachother apart due to some outdated military alliances. So artist's response to all this was to question the whole nature of high art, which was meant to be the measure of European civilisation. Some, like _Les Six _(& the Dadaists), embraced a sense of the absurd in everyday, urban life. Their music is a rebellion not only against so-called 'universal' emotions (as expressed by high Romantics like Wagner) but also the picturesque quality of the impressionists.

Of course, I am generalising, to a degree. Milhaud did compose some works which suggests images of places, such as Paris, & also his native Provence. Same with Honegger, with his _Rugby_ and _Pacific 231_ symphonic movements. But these impressions are somehow more hard-edged than that of the impressionists, there are no blurry notes or sensuous passages. They're basically more down to earth; movement is emphasised, and they are generally more rhythmic.

I agree that, perhaps the music of Les Six can be somewhat more out-there & esoteric. But I think that the fact that they were trying to respond to current ideas and movements in the arts & society generally & not simply go on with the established norms, means that inevitably their music will sound different & thus, has to be approached differently to the way we approach music by composers of the generation prior to them. In general, it is far less cerebral & much less concerned with technique than either that of the high Romantics or impressionists.


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> In general, it is far less cerebral & much less concerned with technique than either that of the high Romantics or impressionists.


I chose this specific statement out of what you just typed because I think it sums up part of the reason I don't really like this group of composers. For me, there's nothing really of depth in these composers. It's all surface. The only piece I enjoyed of any of these composers was Poulenc's "Gloria." My main problem comes back to the fact that their music just doesn't do anything for me. Now, there are plenty of people who enjoy them, so I'll just make my exit by saying that right now I don't enjoy them, but that's not to say 10 years from now that I won't. It's always good to keep an open-mind about music and this is something I'm trying to do. My most recent attempt at keeping more of an open-mind comes from actually sitting down and listening to some Mozart and Beethoven and forcing myself to listen to them. After about an hour, I was standing up conducting Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 with a pencil!


----------



## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I chose this specific statement out of what you just typed because I think it sums up part of the reason I don't really like this group of composers. For me, there's nothing really of depth in these composers. It's all surface.


I agree that Milhaud & Poulenc weren't the most serious composers to walk this earth, but one must remember that eventually, the group split up, & they began to pursue their own interests & pathways. So the music of these composers post-_Les Six _(like Poulenc's Gloria, which you mention) inevitably sounded different. Some of them became more political (I think Durey became a Communist), and others (like Milhaud) became exiles in the USA due to WWII.

As has been discussed above previously, Honegger was the most serious of the group. Of course, there are his symphonic movements, which are really quite flashy, sophisticated & well written orchestral showpieces. However, his symphonies are quite another thing, they are quite profound statements. Especially _No. 3 'Symphonie Liturgique_,' in which he reflects on the horrors of WWII (he wrote it after the war). I think, in a way, he saw that the group were running out of steam & chose to pursue his own directions, which were concerned with making profound statements about the human condition, which had been anathema to the group. I also think that there is some quite moving & emotional music in his film output, notably _Les Miserables_.

Beyond this, I can't really give you other examples (eg. I am not familiar with the post-_Les Six _output of the others, save soem Milhaud & Poulenc, whose works you already seem to know). But I dare say that, especially in their years after they split up, they probably produced some works of more weight, gravity & profundity...


----------



## JoeGreen

While I don't know what "SERIOUSNESS" would entitled but *Dialogues des Carmélites* by Francis Poulenc is absoulutely one of the most heart wrenching, emotional operas ever written.

Poulenc my favourite of _Les Six_ is definitely one of the most underrated composers. His harmony is what I just love. I always try to invoke and emulated in my own stuff.
It's hard for me to describe it, but I always imagine a swirling of gold!

It's just hard not to fall for this...


----------



## Lisztfreak

I had a remarkable experience this early morning.

I was still awake at half past four, chatting on the MSN and transcribing a composition of Liszt's for piano quintet. The skies were already growing blue, and the moon was setting. I put on some Honegger, choosing his Symphony No.2. Then, at about five o'clock, just as the symphony was nearing its end and the glorious, optimistic trumpet started to dispell the general darkness of the work, the first rays of sun came over the hills which can be seen from my window. Such a splendid coincidence! To see the sunrise to Honegger's 2nd!


----------



## Saturnus

Mirror Image said:


> Poulenc is a composer I just can't take that seriously for some reason. I've heard his Concerto For Organ, his Concerto for 2 pianos, Les Biches, and Gloria, which I feel is probably his greatest composition.
> 
> I still feel that this group of composers really had nothing to rebel against. I mean historically they were all trying to move away from Wagner and impressionism, but I have not heard one piece of music by Poulenc, Honegger, or Milhaud that I didn't have a hard time grasping. Mahler I had no problem. Bruckner I had some difficulty, but I always had a deep admiration for. Ravel I liked every freaking note I heard. Anyway, my point is it's not that I don't think these composers were talented and gifted. That goes without question, but I just can't get into them at all, especially Honegger, Milhaud, and Poulenc.


If every notable 20th century composer from France was called _enfant terriblé_ (as it seems to me), how must the other composers have been? I think they were simply rebelling against mediocricity and against art as a service to the audience (the upper-middle class).

You cannot say you've heard Poulenc untill you hear his late woodwind chamber works. I recommend the oboe & violin sonatas, the last movement of the oboe sonata particularly.


----------



## Mirror Image

I'm going to give Poulenc and Honegger a shot. I own nothing by them, so why not take a chance.

Picked up these two beauties:



















I also picked this Roussel up:


----------



## JoeGreen

aww, what a shame the Poulenc CD doesn't have his *Nocturnes* on there, I just love those. Pascal Roge, great interpreter of Poulenc.


----------



## Mirror Image

JoeGreen said:


> aww, what a shame the Poulenc CD doesn't have his *Nocturnes* on there, I just love those. Pascal Roge, great interpreter of Poulenc.


The Poulenc I ordered is actually a 5-CD set. Let me see if I can find the contents of the box:

1. Piano Concerto in C sharp minor, FP 146 19:41
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by New Philharmonia Orchestra of London and Pascal Rogé

2.	Concerto for 2 pianos & orchestra in D minor, FP 61 18:38
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by Sylviane Deferne, New Philharmonia Orchestra of London and Pascal Rogé
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

3.	Concerto for organ, strings & timpani in G minor, FP 93 22:00
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Peter Hurford and New Philharmonia Orchestra of London

4.	Sinfonietta, for chamber orchestra, FP 141 28:32
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

5.	Concert champêtre, for harpsichord & orchestra, FP 49 24:58
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France and Pascal Rogé

6.	Pièce brève sur le nom d'Albert Roussel, for piano (for collab. work, Hommage à Albert Roussel), FP 50 2:12
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

7.	Bucolique, for orchestra (for collab. work, Variations sur le nom de Marguerite Long), FP 160 2:31
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

8.	Esquisse d'un fanfare, for winds, percussion & piano (overture for Act V of Shakespeare, Roméo & Juliet), FP 25 2:55
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

9.	Deux marches et un intermède, for chamber orchestra, FP 88 5:21
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

10.	Suite française (d'après Claude Gervaise), for winds, percussion & harpsichord, FP 80 11:46
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Yves Coueffe, Laurent Decker, Orchestre National de France, Pascal Rogé, Marc Bauer, Philippe Hanon, Jacques Fourquet, Claude Fustin, André Goudenhooft, Sébastien Larrère and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

11.	Les biches, suite for orchestra (from the ballet), FP 36 19:58
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

12.	Les animaux modèles, suite for orchestra, FP 111 20:43
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

13.	Matelote provençale, for orchestra (for collab. work, La guirlande de Campra), FP 153 1:25
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

14.	Pastourelle, ballet movement (for collab. work, L'éventail de Jeanne), FP 45 1:54
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

15.	Valse (pour Micheline Soulé), for piano in C major (for collab. work, Album des Six), FP 17 1:50
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

16.	Discours du général, ballet movement (for collab. ballet, Les mariés de la Tour Eiffel, by Les Six), FP 23/1 0:55
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

17.	Les mariés de la Tour Eiffel, ballet (collaborative work: nos. 3-4 only), FP 23: La Baigneuse de Trouville (Nos. 3 & 4) 1:57
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

18.	Aubade, choreographic concerto for piano & 18 instruments, FP 51 20:19
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France and Pascal Rogé

19.	Deux préludes posthumes et 3e gnossienne (orchestraton of 3 piano works of Erik Satie), FP 104 9:17
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Performed by Orchestre National de France

20.	Le bal masqué, for baritone (or mezzosoprano) & chamber ensemble, FP 60 18:02
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Pascal Rogé, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, François Le Roux, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

21.	Le bestiaire (Cortège d'Orphée), song cycle for voice & piano (or chamber ensemble), FP 15a 4:52
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, François Le Roux, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

22.	Rapsodie nègre, for baritone & chamber ensemble, FP 3 11:01
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Pascal Rogé, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, François Le Roux, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

23.	Cocardes, song cycle for voice & piano (or ensemble), FP 16 7:21
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, François Le Roux, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

24.	Trois mouvements perpétuels, for chamber orchestra (orchestration of piano work, FP 14) 6:27
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

25.	Le gendarme incompris, incidental music, FP 20 21:11
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Dominique Visse, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Lambert Wilson, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

26.	Quatre poèmes de Max Jacob, for baritone voice & wind ensemble, FP 22 6:22
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by B. Balet, Andre Gantiez, Gabin Lauridon, Orchestre National de France, Philippe Pierlot, Marc Bauer, Marc Bauer, Alessandro Carbonare, Muriel Pouzenc, Philippe Hanon, Florence Binder, Teodor Coman, Sébastien Larrère, Philippe Litzler, Philippe Litzler, Liliane Rossi, François Le Roux, Pascal Saumon and Pascal Saumon
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

27.	Gloria, for soprano, chorus & orchestra, FP 177 22:16
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by Choeur de l'Armee Francaise, Orchestre National de France, Francois Polgar and Francoise Pollet
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

28.	Litanies à la Vierge Noire, for women's chorus & organ (or strings & timpani), FP 82 8:58
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by Denis Dupays, Maîtrise de Radio France and Orchestre National de France
Conducted by Charles Dutoit

29.	Stabat Mater, for soprano, chorus & orchestra, FP 148 31:24
Composed by Francis Poulenc
Performed by Choeur de l'Armee Francaise, Orchestre National de France, Francois Polgar and Francoise Pollet
Conducted by Charles Dutoit


----------



## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I'm going to give Poulenc and Honegger a shot. I own nothing by them, so why not take a chance.
> 
> Picked up these two beauties...
> 
> I also picked this Roussel up...


I really like Poulenc's concertos, _Les biches & Gloria_. They display a certain wit, grace & elan, but can also touch one on deeper levels. I also think that Honegger's _Symphony No. 3 'Liturgique' _is as eloquent as any musical statement on the horrors of war & brutality. & his symphonic movements are really down to earth, by contrast, about the 'here & now' - technology, sport, landscapes - but they do not resort to the cliches of impressionism. So good luck in your exploration of these composers. I can't comment much on Roussel, I only know that he was an older contemporary of _Les Six_, & like them, trying to forge a style which was different to Romanticism & impressionism.

Bon apetit!


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I really like Poulenc's concertos, _Les biches & Gloria_. They display a certain wit, grace & elan, but can also touch one on deeper levels. I also think that Honegger's _Symphony No. 3 'Liturgique' _is as eloquent as any musical statement on the horrors of war & brutality. & his symphonic movements are really down to earth, by contrast, about the 'here & now' - technology, sport, landscapes - but they do not resort to the cliches of impressionism. So good luck in your exploration of these composers. I can't comment much on Roussel, I only know that he was an older contemporary of _Les Six_, & like them, trying to forge a style which was different to Romanticism & impressionism.
> 
> Bon apetit!


Thanks, Andre. Yeah, I look forward to digging into these composers. I need to find some Milhaud now, though his music is harder to find than Honegger and Poulenc.


----------



## Air

I'm ashamed that we must label a composer "unserious" or "serious". I never felt this was a test of true quality. In the case of Francis Poulenc, he may not have had the "bigness" or "depth" of Mahler, but instead a flair for color, harmony, and voice that is arguably unmatched. 

No one yet has mentioned the Violin sonata or the Oboe sonata. Both are trandescendently beautiful but horribly underrated. Poulenc's beautifully harmonized choir works, too, evoke in me a spiritual feeling that very few works bring. Among them, I have enjoyed "Salve Regina", "Un soir de neige", "Mass in g minor", "Ave verum corpus" and many more.

LOL, maybe we should change the name of this thread. Not giving much attention to the other members of "Les Six" it seems.


----------



## Mirror Image

airad2 said:


> I'm ashamed that we must label a composer "unserious" or "serious". I never felt this was a test of true quality. In the case of Francis Poulenc, he may not have had the "bigness" or "depth" of Mahler, but instead a flair for color, harmony, and voice that is arguably unmatched.
> 
> No one yet has mentioned the Violin sonata or the Oboe sonata. Both are trandescendently beautiful but horribly underrated. Poulenc's beautifully harmonized choir works, too, evoke in me a spiritual feeling that very few works bring. Among them, I have enjoyed "Salve Regina", "Un soir de neige", "Mass in g minor", "Ave verum corpus" and many more.
> 
> LOL, maybe we should change the name of this thread. Not giving much attention to the other members of "Les Six" it seems.


I like Poulenc better now then I did a week or so ago, which only proves don't ever write off somebody until you've given them a fair trial.

I just bought a Milhaud 2-CD set of orchestral works, so I look forward hearing it as well:










I know Milhaud composed about 12 symphonies, which is pretty prolific. It's a shame there's not many conductors that have championed any of these composers works, especially the lesser known of this group.


----------



## danae

airad2 said:


> I'm ashamed that we must label a composer "unserious" or "serious". I never felt this was a test of true quality. In the case of Francis Poulenc, he may not have had the "bigness" or "depth" of Mahler, but instead a flair for color, harmony, and voice that is arguably unmatched.


Is "bigness" and "depth" the essense of art? This is a very big discussion of course but I have to say at least a word or 2. It is common place to regard the dramatic, depth, seriousness, heroism, grandiose proportions etc etc, as key elements to a great work of art. But what about all these artists that sought to do something different? Like Poulenc, or Satie even, who wrote a short piece with the instruction "to be played 846 times non-stop" just to annoy the audience!
Or in movies, are the Monty Python less important than Federico Fellini just because their work is satire and comedy?
Well I don't think so.

After all, there is nothing sexier than a great sense of humour!!


----------



## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I like Poulenc better now then I did a week or so ago, which only proves don't ever write off somebody until you've given them a fair trial.
> 
> I just bought a Milhaud 2-CD set of orchestral works, so I look forward hearing it as well:
> 
> I know Milhaud composed about 12 symphonies, which is pretty prolific. It's a shame there's not many conductors that have championed any of these composers works, especially the lesser known of this group.


I think that, once you listen to some of the works of _Les Six_, it becomes apparent how different their output was to the generations that had gone before, the Romantics & the impressionists. They composed much different music & had their own individual styles. They were not imitative of anyone else or eachother, even though Satie was like a father figure to them.

For me, Milhaud is a bit more difficult to get into than Honegger or Poulenc. I have an EMI CD which contains works like _Le Carnaval d'Aix, Paris, Suite Provencale, La belle Martinique, Suite Francaise & Scaramouche_. The fact that these are smaller scale works, with movements that last for, in most cases, about 5 minutes or less, means that the music is less 'fixed' & more 'fluid' than larger scale works. No sooner is my attention focused on one piece, then it ends & we are at the beginning of another relatively brief piece.

I haven't heard any of Milhaud's symphonies or concertos, so do get back to us, Mirror Image, once you have heard the CD's in that boxed set. It would be interesting to get your views on his larger scale works in particular.


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I think that, once you listen to some of the works of _Les Six_, it becomes apparent how different their output was to the generations that had gone before, the Romantics & the impressionists. They composed much different music & had their own individual styles. They were not imitative of anyone else or eachother, even though Satie was like a father figure to them.
> 
> For me, Milhaud is a bit more difficult to get into than Honegger or Poulenc. I have an EMI CD which contains works like _Le Carnaval d'Aix, Paris, Suite Provencale, La belle Martinique, Suite Francaise & Scaramouche_. The fact that these are smaller scale works, with movements that last for, in most cases, about 5 minutes or less, means that the music is less 'fixed' & more 'fluid' than larger scale works. No sooner is my attention focused on one piece, then it ends & we are at the beginning of another relatively brief piece.
> 
> I haven't heard any of Milhaud's symphonies or concertos, so do get back to us, Mirror Image, once you have heard the CD's in that boxed set. It would be interesting to get your views on his larger scale works in particular.


One of the most difficult aspects of Milhaud's music is it's use of polytonality (two or more keys sounding at the same time). This gives his music a very difficult, unsettling feeling, but he's influenced by jazz music, so it will be interesting to hear how this jazz influence ties into the actual compositions themselve.

Les Six, is an interesting group of composers for sure. The fact that they made it their goal to follow their muses is very intriguing.

Indeed, I will let you know my impressions of their music once I had time to absorb them.


----------



## Lisztfreak

Mirror Image said:


> I also picked this Roussel up:


Excellent sets! I take them of the shelf at least once a week.


----------



## Mirror Image

Lisztfreak said:


> Excellent sets! I take them of the shelf at least once a week.


Alright this is good to know. You can't go wrong with Charles Dutoit. He excels in the French repertoire.


----------



## Sid James

I just listened to the Naxos disc, conducted by Adriano, of the complete film music by *Honegger* to _Les Miserables _(1934). It's a really fine score, particularly the final part (it is an hour long), which contains some quite emotional music. I think that this music is equal to his _Symphony No. 3_, he really elevated the level of film music to a higher plane when he composed this. I wonder if there is anyone out there who has actually seen the film? It is reputed to be the best version of the story ever put to celluloid.


----------



## andruini

Andre said:


> I just listened to the Naxos disc, conducted by Adriano, of the complete film music by *Honegger* to _Les Miserables _(1934). It's a really fine score, particularly the final part (it is an hour long), which contains some quite emotional music. I think that this music is equal to his _Symphony No. 3_, he really elevated the level of film music to a higher plane when he composed this. I wonder if there is anyone out there who has actually seen the film? It is reputed to be the best version of the story ever put to celluloid.


It's available from the Criterion Collection in a set with another Bernard film called *Wooden Crosses*. I don't have it, but I've only heard great things about the set..


----------



## Mirror Image

I'm in agreement with Andre about Milhaud. I find his work very difficult to get into. What do you guys think? Although his "Concerto for Harp and Orchestra" is quite nice. I also find Honegger quite a difficult pill to swallow.


----------



## Sid James

Actually, Milhaud's _Sacred Jewish Service _is on my to-get list...

I'm beginning to appreciate his style a bit more now, having listened to that EMI cd many times. There is a quirkiness, lightness & idiosyncracy to his style which is quite enjoyable, if not my favourite. My favourite of _Les six_, from the ones I've heard so far, is Honegger. I find his way of orchestrating to be quite individual, this can be heard in his symphonic movements in particular...


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Actually, Milhaud's _Sacred Jewish Service _is on my to-get list...
> 
> I'm beginning to appreciate his style a bit more now, having listened to that EMI cd many times. There is a quirkiness, lightness & idiosyncracy to his style which is quite enjoyable, if not my favourite. My favourite of _Les six_, from the ones I've heard so far, is Honegger. I find his way of orchestrating to be quite individual, this can be heard in his symphonic movements in particular...


Perhaps I need to spend more time with Milhaud and Honegger. Poulenc really amazes me and keeps me wanting more. His orchestral works, chamber, and choral works are astonishing.

I know Milhaud was very much a fan of jazz music, so perhaps there's just something I'm missing. Honegger just sounds incredibly dissonant to me, but again, perhaps I'm missing something.


----------



## Sid James

Well I think that Poulenc's output is the most varied of the lot. There's so much variety in his work, from the comparatively serious _Organ Concerto _, to the _Piano Concerto _- full of references to the popular music of the time - to the wry & witty _Les Biches _& the late religious works like the _Gloria_. Not to mention the operas which I haven't heard. I think he was the most versatile of the lot (difficult to say, as the lesser known of _Les six _haven't received that much exposure outside France).

But I really like Honegger's pared down, almost lean style. He doesn't get too emotional, but it's always under the surface & the sounds he gets from the instruments are very unique. Obviously, what Honegger was doing was a reposte to the emotiveness of the Romantic era & the lushness of Impressionism...


----------



## haydnguy

I'll just say a word about the women. I have the CD shown below of Tailleferre and can tell you that she is quite good. I haven't played it in a long time but I remember when I was listening to it my wife commented on how good it was. (She's not much into classical music.)

Also, I would be remiss if I didn't a VERY underrated performer (IMHO) that was not an "official member" of Les Six but was closely associated, and that was Marcelle Meyer. She was a pianist that frequently performed for the Les Six and was highly respected by them.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Meyer-Marcelle.htm

Tailleferre:










Link to CD:

http://www.amazon.com/Germaine-Tail...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1249520559&sr=1-5

EDIT: I'm going to relisten to the Tailleferre to refresh my memory of her music.


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well I think that Poulenc's output is the most varied of the lot. There's so much variety in his work, from the comparatively serious _Organ Concerto _, to the _Piano Concerto _- full of references to the popular music of the time - to the wry & witty _Les Biches _& the late religious works like the _Gloria_. Not to mention the operas which I haven't heard. I think he was the most versatile of the lot (difficult to say, as the lesser known of _Les six _haven't received that much exposure outside France).
> 
> But I really like Honegger's pared down, almost lean style. He doesn't get too emotional, but it's always under the surface & the sounds he gets from the instruments are very unique. Obviously, what Honegger was doing was a reposte to the emotiveness of the Romantic era & the lushness of Impressionism...


Honegger's love for trains comes through loud in clear in his music. I think if you try and envision a train his music gets pretty close to that experience. He was, indeed, a very unique composer. He got some very interesting sounds, especially from the string section. Like I said, I'll just have to give him more time to sink in. I may come to appreciate him as much as you do? Who knows?

Anyway, I like what you wrote about Poulenc. I agree with you, but I think even in those more humorous sections he was able to turn back around and leave you heartbroken like the Larghetto movement of his "Piano Concerto for Two Pianos." This is a testament to his incredible writing ability.


----------



## Sid James

That Tailleferre disc looks really interesting, haydnguy. I haven't heard anything from either her or Dufay, the other lesser known member of _Les six_...


----------



## haydnguy

I have _something_ from all of them except Dufey. I don't have a whole lot from any of them though. I need to get some more Poulenc.


----------



## Mirror Image

haydnguy said:


> I have _something_ from all of them except Dufey. I don't have a whole lot from any of them though. I need to get some more Poulenc.


I strongly suggest this set to you with Charles Dutoit conducting. It's unbelievably good:










You should be able to get it for around $20. You better get it while you can. Knowing how Decca are it'll be gone soon.


----------



## haydnguy

Thanks, M.I., it's going in my cart right now.


----------



## Mirror Image

haydnguy said:


> Thanks, M.I., it's going in my cart right now.


Alright!!! You won't regret that purchase.


----------



## haydnguy

I just wanted to post that I just discovered that a new book on the Les Six is going to be released later this month (Aug. 2009) on Amazon (U.S.). The release date is August 29, 2009.


----------



## Mirror Image

haydnguy said:


> I just wanted to post that I just discovered that a new book on the Les Six is going to be released later this month (Aug. 2009) on Amazon (U.S.). The release date is August 29, 2009.


That should be very interesting! I might be interested enough to even buy it. I don't buy that many books, but the prospect of that book seems quite intriguing.


----------



## Sid James

Yeah, looks like an interesting book. I must also mention that my favourite period in music is the period between the two world wars, exactly when _Les six _were active & together...


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Yeah, looks like an interesting book. I must also mention that my favourite period in music is the period between the two world wars, exactly when _Les six _were active & together...


You know what, Andre, I guess you could say the same for me. I actually love the time from about 1860-1945. Such an interesting period.


----------



## Sid James

I've just acquired the Naxos recording of *Milhaud's* _Service Sacre _(1947). It's a Jewish liturgical work for solo baritone, speaker, chorus and orchestra (in Hebrew & English). Over the past few days, I've grown to love it. It has interesting use of polytonality, which was characteristic of Milhaud's native Provence. It was written after his move to the USA, and there he really became interested in his Jewish roots, producing a string of Jewish inspired works.

Thumbs up for Naxos & the Milken Archive of American Jewish Music for publishing little known gems like this. I look forward to acquiring more from the series. I'm not Jewish myself, and I don't think you have to be that to enjoy this music. It really speaks about the universal truths of human existence, just like Handel's _Messiah_, for instance...


----------



## violadude

I know this thread is really old. I'm not sure what the rules are for bumping threads so sorry if I broke a rule or something like that. 
But anyway, I wanted to say that, and I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Milhaud's piano concertos are some of the most underrated and underplayed of the genre. I really enjoy them a lot.


----------



## Meaghan

Tailleferre needs some love! I don't object to Poulenc being the most lauded of the bunch, but I remain unconvinced that Milhaud and Honegger have more to offer than Tailleferre to justify them getting performed and recorded so much more than she does. She was very prolific and had the rare talent (shared with Stravinsky and Copland) of composing in vastly disparate styles while still sounding like herself. I recommend "Image" for Eight Instruments, the Harp Sonata, and the Sonata for Solo Clarinet. Especially the harp sonata.


----------



## Vaneyes

The music of Poulenc, Honegger, Milhaud have secured sufficient legacies. The others need to come back and write more music.


----------



## Meaghan

I dunno, I think Tailleferre wrote a shitt*n of music that should have secured her a sufficient legacy. I suspect her obscurity is due mostly to factors other than the quantity or quality of her compositions relative to her colleagues'.


----------



## Jeremy Marchant

Meaghan said:


> I dunno, I think Tailleferre wrote a shitt*n of music that should have secured her a sufficient legacy. I suspect her obscurity is due mostly to factors other than the quantity or quality of her compositions relative to her colleagues'.


Gosh, you couldn't possibly be referring to the fact that she was a _woman_?!


----------



## Meaghan

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Gosh, you couldn't possibly be referring to the fact that she was a _woman_?!


God forbid!


----------



## Manxfeeder

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Gosh, you couldn't possibly be referring to the fact that she was a _woman_?!


I wasn't aware gender had anything to do with it. I thought it had more to do with Pierre Boulez purging French music of anything not related to his vision of modernity.


----------



## Cnote11

Poulenc and Milhaud are my favorites out of the bunch. They wrote a lot of really solid pieces. France has produced a lot of great composers.


----------



## moody

Mirror Image said:


> I like Poulenc better now then I did a week or so ago, which only proves don't ever write off somebody until you've given them a fair trial.
> 
> I just bought a Milhaud 2-CD set of orchestral works, so I look forward hearing it as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know Milhaud composed about 12 symphonies, which is pretty prolific. It's a shame there's not many conductors that have championed any of these composers works, especially the lesser known of this group.


There are many recordings available of Milhaud being championed by well known conductors such as Bernstein, Cellibidache, Fremaux etc, not to mention Milhaud himself.


----------



## clavichorder

My favorite of the bunch is actually Honegger. I mostly just love Symphony Liturgigue and Symphony no. 5. Super intense.


----------



## moody

I am not particularly enamoured of Les Six, but Poulenc has got points in his favour.
His Concerto for Organ, Strings and Timpani--his Concert Champetre for Harpsichord and Orchestra---also his Concert in D Minor for Two Pianos and Orchestra. I have the HMV recording of the last two and the soloists in the piano concert are the composer and Jacques Fevrier.
But the more important side of Poulenc to me are his Melodies, which are the French equivalent of Lieder.
There is a very fine 1947 recording of the soprano Rose Dercourt acc. by Poulenc singing a variety of his songs including some based on Paul Eluard poems.She was actually Polish but studied in Paris and became a "French" singer she also became a friend to Poulenc.
The great French baritone Pierre Bernac recorded a disc in 1947 of Melodies with Poulenc inc. Milhaud, Poulenc and Auric plus others---it is very highly recommended.
Another French icon was the tenor Charles Panzera and he is represented in my collection by a double album of Schubert, Schumann, Severac, Falla,Milhaud, Faure and Duparc plus others. Also opera by Debussy, Berloz and Mozart. ( 1920's and 1930's recordings). EMI Reference.
Gerard Souzay is another master of the art of singing Melodies.
It is really paramount to obtain French singers for French vocal music in fact I would say it is obligatory.











organ Strings


----------



## Vaneyes

Hurrah for Poulenc. I'd like to suggest "Concerto pour deux pianos" with Le Sage & Braley (RCA, rec. 2003).

This work is one of classical music's supreme thrills.

View attachment 4695


----------



## Piwikiwi

violadude said:


> I know this thread is really old. I'm not sure what the rules are for bumping threads so sorry if I broke a rule or something like that.
> But anyway, I wanted to say that, and I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Milhaud's piano concertos are some of the most underrated and underplayed of the genre. I really enjoy them a lot.


Can you recommend a recording? I can't find any one spotify


----------



## PetrB

Piwikiwi said:


> Can you recommend a recording? I can't find any one spotify


Remember, you have available venues _other than_ spotify <g>

Milhaud:
Piano Concerto No. 1




Piano Concerto No. 2




Piano Concerto No. 3





Concerto for two pianos and orchestra













Le Carnaval d'Aix, for piano and orchestra









I'm quite attached to this:
Cinq études pour piano et orchestre op.63 
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Milhaud+cing+etudes


----------



## Piwikiwi

PetrB said:


> Remember, you have available venues _other than_ spotify <g>
> 
> Milhaud:
> Piano Concerto No. 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Concerto No. 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Concerto No. 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Concerto for two pianos and orchestra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le Carnaval d'Aix, for piano and orchestra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite attached to this:
> Cinq études pour piano et orchestre op.63
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Milhaud+cing+etudes


Thank you! (15 characters)


----------



## Piwikiwi

Bump! Can someone recommend me more music by Tailleferre? Peterb send me the piano concerto and I have listened to the harp/piano concerto myself and I really like it so far.


----------



## haydnguy

Piwikiwi said:


> Bump! Can someone recommend me more music by Tailleferre? Peterb send me the piano concerto and I have listened to the harp/piano concerto myself and I really like it so far.


I can't recommend any more of her music but I noticed I bought that CD (the one you posted) in 2008 so it's high time I revisit that one!


----------

