# SS 22.02.14 - Mahler #1



## realdealblues

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Gustav Mahler (1860 - 1911)*

Symphony #1 in D Major

1. Langsam, schleppend
2. Kräftig bewegt
3. Feierlich und gemessen, ohne zu schleppen
4. Stürmisch bewegt

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues

Usually when I listen to this Symphony my picks are Kubelik or Walter but this week I'm going to listen to one I haven't listened to in many, many years.

View attachment 35607


Bernard Haitink/Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam


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## DaDirkNL

I am in fact going to listen to Kubelik. The Haitink rendition is also excellent.


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## GioCar

Kubelik is my favourite - also because it was my first - but tomorrow I'll go with Zubin Mehta and the Israel PO.










just to listen again to the rejected "Blumine" movement.


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## samurai

I'll try Maestro Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic.


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## ptr

I'm always game for Mahler!

I'll return to an old favourite; Klaus Tennstedt and the London Philharmonic Orchestra, but not the EMI releases but the 1985 BBC Live recordings from Royal Festival Hall released by LPO Live (0012).

/ptr


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## DavidA

Sorry! I'm afraid Mahler gives me little pleasure. Maybe it's me but his strainings and heavings depress me!


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## Cosmos

DavidA said:


> Sorry! I'm afraid Mahler gives me little pleasure. Maybe it's me but his strainings and heavings depress me!


Sorry to hear

And I"M REALLY EXCITED because I've been thinking about this symphony lately and haven't listened to it in a while. The only recording I own is of Valery Gregiev conducting the LSO


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## csacks

I will go for Ormandy and Filadelfia Orchestra. Kubelik and the Bayern Orchestra are also excellent. But Ormandy is my gold standard for this.


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## maestro267

London Symphony Orchestra/Georg Solti


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## clara s

when i saw this thread i was really glad,

because a few days ago I listened to one of the best recordings of Mahler's 1


New York Philharmonic conducted by Dimitri Mitropoulos
if you find it, do not miss it

such freedom in expression 
you really feel the dynamic of Gustav transmitted to you


One recording I also want to listen is Leonard Slatkin and Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra
I will do it this weekend and tell you


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## Haydn man

Not listened to this for a while but pleased about the choice this week
In the past I have struggled with Mahler but feel I am ready to try again and this is just the opportunity I need:tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

*Mahler*: Symphony 1, w. Philadelphia/Muti (rec. 1984, EMI Toshiba Japan 24-bit remastered).

View attachment 35632


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## Mahlerian

DavidA said:


> Sorry! I'm afraid Mahler gives me little pleasure. Maybe it's me but his strainings and heavings depress me!


Sorry about that.

I'm going to have an hour of solid enjoyment (absolutely no depression whatsoever!) with:









Tennstedt and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra on EMI


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## Itullian

I'll go with Chailly. Only because the recorded sound is so beautiful.


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## Marschallin Blair

Mahlerian said:


> Sorry about that.
> 
> I'm going to have an hour of solid enjoyment (absolutely no depression whatsoever!) listening to Tennstedt
> 
> Ha! Ha! Ha! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! . . .I almost spat my orange juice out of my mouth when I read that!-- _Vous avez tellement raison_.


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## Marschallin Blair




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## Guest

For me it is going to be my favorite recording - Kubelik's excellent live recording with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on Audite.


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## senza sordino

samurai said:


> I'll try Maestro Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic.


Ditto

I had the chance to play the first movement in an orchestra. Plenty tough, but fantastic climax to reach. Quite thrilling really. Though this performance was more for us, a bunch of amateurs, than it was for the audience.


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## CyrilWashbrook

Have struggled to really get into the later Mahler symphonies but I certainly enjoy the first three. I'll listen to the Kubelik/BR recording on DG, which I haven't heard before.


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## Mika

Giulini & CSO


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## AClockworkOrange

It looks like I'm going to be listening to this Symphony on the move, so I will be going with Tennstedt's Live recording with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.
View attachment 35685


I did toy with Bernstein & the NYP as I haven't listened toy this recording as much but I haven't had time to rip it and load it onto my iPod.

The same applies to extent on Jurowski's recently released recording with the London Philharmonic, interesting in it's inclusion of Blumine - in sequence if memory serves. However, Blumine aside, this recording pales noticeably in comparison with that of Tennstedt. If I did have time to put another recording on my iPod, it would be Bernstein who takes priority.

If I were listening at home, I would likely go with the Tennstedt DVD which Mahlerian has chosen. I have watched the Eight that is included but I haven't had time to watch the recording of the First Symphony.


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## techniquest

Aha - a Saturday Symphony I can certainly take part in. The question with Mahler's 1st however is to do it with or without the 'blumine' movement? So I've decided to go with both: one with (Hungarian State Orchestra / Ivan Fischer) and one without (Philharmonia / Zander).


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## brotagonist

Ich bin dabei!

The fin de siècle is possibly my favourite time in classical music. Mahler is one of the greats of that time. I will listen to the disc I have:









Solti/LSO (1964 recording)


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## TurnaboutVox

brotagonist said:


> I will listen to the disc I have:
> 
> Solti/LSO (1964 recording)
> 
> View attachment 35695


Same one for me


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## techniquest

I just listened to the Hungarian State Orchestra / Ivan Fischer recording (see above) and my overall conclusion is that this is not a good one, the inclusion of the 'Blumine' movement as a curiosity being it's only real saving grace. The orchestra sounds small, thin and lacking in anything that doesn't play in the treble clef.
That said, the first movement opens well with nicely distant off-stage trumpets and then a suitably jolly main tune. The central quieter section of the movement has some very nice low harp, but with such a poor bass signal otherwise, the menace has gone from the part with the slowly thudding bass drum. The build up to the climax of the first movement is taken very slowly, and then, once we get there the 3 horn 'whoops' are too slow to work properly and the tempi are kind of all over the place.
The Blumine movement come next and, while pretty enough, has so many repeats of the main theme that it becomes tiresome. Then the Kraftig movement, placed now 3rd rather than 2nd, comes in nicely paced with great nose-tweak muted horm interjections and small percussion that can be heard but isn't too far forward.
The slow movement is very tightly controlled; Fischer keeps everything on a tight rein. It's a shame that the sound is so thin rendering the solo double bass to a mere whine, in this most imaginative of Mahler symphonic movements. 
So to the finale which explodes out of the silence. It is in this movement that the orchestra sounds at it's worse. The sound seems even smaller, even more trebly and to be honest, the orchestra sounds tired with the movement becoming very episodic. There are parts where the whole thing slows down as if everyone needs to take a breath, and that's kind of how it goes to the end. In the final pages, at the symphony's conclusion it sounds as though the timpanist has gone for a lie down, and the final bass drum roll is the only thing that gives any relief from the the tinniness of the overall sound. Unless you must have Blumine, this is one to avoid.


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## nightscape

Tennstedt/London Philharmonic


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## techniquest

Philharmonia / Zander - a far FAR better recording than the 1988 Fischer, but in terms of performance, not necessarily outstanding. The dynamic range is vast; turn the hi-fi up to hear the very quiet bits and your ears will be blown off when a loud bit suddenly bursts in (such as the start of the final movement)!
Overall the pace is good throughout (though a tad sluggish at the end), the quality of the playing superb, and the depth of sound from the orchestra first rate. What really helps with this recording is that you get a second CD in which Benjamin Zander explores the symphony in a lot of detail along with the Songs of the Wayfarer (which is the 'filler' for the symphony on CD1). Well worth it 

I must just add that I have a great recording on vinyl from CfP with the LPO under Gaetano Delogu which is a real rip-roarer, especially the final movement. I must treat myself to a CD version of this.


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## Cosmos

After hearing the work for the bajillionth time, I've rekindled my love for the music. No, it's not the most profound symphony Mahler wrote, nor would most rank it high up on the masterpiece ladder. But, it's FUN. The music is so energetic and passionate, it makes me feel like I'm climbing a mountain or something. I think the work is much more enticing to younger crowds, and it's easy to hear why. I love the first, because it makes me really happy.

So, while I was listening to it, I took a nice long walk [and as usual got some breathtaking views of the lake]








When I was on the beach, I found a boardwalk that stopped at a small rectangular platform, in the middle of the beach, which had islands of sand poking out of the sea of surrounding snow, and beyond the edge of ice was the blue of the lake. Needless to say, since I was alone, I air-conducted the finale of the work in a Beethoven-like frenzy. Hopefully no one saw or they'd think I had some mental problems :lol:

After the symphony was over, I decided to listen to Beethoven's first two symphonies because I was in a happy mood, but didn't want anything as bombastic as the Mahler finale.

I hope you all have[had] as much fun with the symphony as I did!


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## maestro267

My observations on Mahler 1:

- I find the first movement the weakest, tbh. The introduction is interesting, but to me it fails to really get going beyond that, like several failed attempts to start a car. Only near the end (with that cymbal crash) does the proverbial car start moving.

- The slow movement is one of my favourites. A minor-key version of Frere Jacques, then a drunk uncle dancing at a party. Which dies down, and then this huge explosion out of nowhere grabs everyone's attention for the start of the turbulent finale.

- The finale almost seems like a symphony in itself, for its journey from turbulent darkness to glorious D major light. The fact Mahler asks the horns to stand up for its triumphant final bars is brilliant! Also, the drum roll at the end, and the way it just keeps building and building, to the point where the bass drum even joins in the roll for the last few bars, is one of the most amazing endings in all music.


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## DrKilroy

I did not intent to listen this time, but oh well - why not?  I have got some cheap recording with Karel Ancerl and Czech Philharmonic Orchestra and I will listen to it. I remember it was not bad, after all - it was the recording that made me interested in Mahler. 

Best regards, Dr


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## Mahlerian

techniquest said:


> The Blumine movement come next and, while pretty enough, has so many repeats of the main theme that it becomes tiresome.


I agree. Mahler's decision to cut this movement was a wise move that strengthened the symphony (even though it was consequently left without a traditional slow movement).


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## senza sordino

I got the orchestra wrong when I posted this morning. I said Bernstein with New York. My CD is Bernstein conducting the Concertgebouworest Amsterdam.


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## FLighT

As a result of this thread, and several other Mahler threads that always run close to the surface on these forums, I whipped out my Kubelik /Audite 1st yesterday for a listen. What a great performance. He runs a bit faster than most in the first movement (by 2 ½ to 3 minutes over many others) but overall his view of the symphony is so youthful in character, fresh, clean and satisfying. Sonics aren’t bad, I would just wish for a little more recorded heft with the closing bass drum roll (probably a result of the recording venue or for technical reasons). That is a favorite effect for me in this work that fills the hall with energy and really underpins the drama at closing.

The problem of the Mahler symphonies to me seems to be that the perfect performance can only be realized by the listener in his/her mind. The experienced Mahlerite knows very well what tempos work where, how long a pause should last, how the next section should be addressed, the dynamics, the overall flow, etc. 

But, that’s also a lot of the appeal for me, there’s always something to be discovered among the numerous recordings available. And believe me; I’ve got way too many of each symphony. :lol: And while first loves of a given work are hard to displace, over the years and as I’ve gotten older and experienced more takes on Mahler’s symphonies, I find there’s more room to enjoy alternate versions for their unique performance aspects.

Going to live performances is, of course, the ultimate Mahler experience.


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## realdealblues

This symphony has a special place for me because it was the second complete symphony from Mahler I heard.

The first thing I heard from Mahler was the Adagietto from the 5th Symphony. I went out to my local Music shop at the time looking for a copy of the 5th, but the only recording they had was Mahler's 6th. So I figured, why not take the chance. After listening to the 6th I was hooked. I went and ordered Leonard Bernstein's complete Mahler Symphonies with the New York Philharmonic and when it arrived, started with Symphony No. 1.

The whole thing reminds me of a sea symphony. I always feel like I'm journeying across the ocean on a ship. It's a very happy, and adventurous feeling. I never get tired of that feeling or hearing this symphony.

As for my chosen recording of Haitink and the RCO, while Haitink may not pick up on as much subtle humor as Walter or Kubelik, it's still very nicely paced and the RCO play and sound wonderful.

Thanks again to everyone who participated and for making this another very successful weekend!


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## Mahlerian

realdealblues said:


> The whole thing reminds me of a sea symphony. I always feel like I'm journeying across the ocean on a ship. It's a very happy, and adventurous feeling. I never get tired of that feeling or hearing this symphony.


Surprisingly, this actually fits with parts of Mahler's initial program. I recall the third movement (originally the fourth of five) had the name "Shipwrecked", and _possibly_ the second had something like "Sails out".

But of course the program was appended after composition, so we can't take it as evidence of Mahler's intentions as to what the music "means".


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## Zarathustra

I have great love for this symphony. I was a preteen when I first heard it. My mum had brought home a few cd's of classical music out of the blue - she didn't and does not listen to classical, nor does anyone in my family - and one of them was this, The Titan it was called.

The other cd's included Liszt, Bach, Corelli which I didn't like as well as Mozart and Beethoven which I did. There were others with various degrees of indifference.

This was the one that really catched my attention, however. At a time when all my friends were listening to Nirvana, Guns 'n Roses and Metallica, I was listening to Mahler. Don't get me wrong. I like thrash metal as much as the next guy but this was just somehow special.

After a while we moved and somehow most of my cd's got lost. Here ended abruptly my classical music interest. 

Fast forward to college and one day while looking for an Einstürzende Neubaten cd (don't ask) I somehow remember Mahler and get an irresistible urge to buy a copy of Titan. I bought the cheapest cd I could find, by a Michael Halász with the Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, fearing that I wouldn't like it as much as before and not wanting to spend too much money on it.

But I did like it and again I was hooked. From there I started rebuilding my collection, Beethoven's 3rd with Klemperer, then the 5th with Haitink, Mozart's Requiem with Karajan, back to Mahler's 5th with Baremboim, and so on and so forth. 

So this symphony is pretty much guilty of getting me into classical. As a newbie I thoroughly enjoyed the different colors a full orchestra provides and I would recommend it to someone new to classical.

During the last few days I have gone on somewhat of a Titan (yes I now know the name is apocryphal) binge listening to Ozawa, Halász, Abbado, Baremboim, Mitropoulos, Walter, Salonen, and finally Tennstedt. I am burned out and can't really tell which one is which anymore. I should have taken notes but I hadn't planned on gorging this much.

What I do remember is for some reason I didn't like the final movement of Baremboim (Bavarian Radio), or Abbado (Lucerne) as he tries to uncover certain details but smothers others that I feel are more important for the momentum of the piece. Mitropoulos I quite enjoyed throughout. The minor complain I do have is he slows down at the end when the horns stand up and I like it more when the tempo is more even. It's not that uncommon. It's the same with Halász and Horenstein and Maazel if my memory isn't toying with me. I prefer it the other way however. Tenntedt's second movement I liked. The third movement was faster than I'm used to, but perhaps it's more inkeeping with Mahler's own indications. I prefer it a bit slower however. Salonen third movement I specially hated. Too bipolar and swingy. As for Walter's I have absolutely no recollection of it so it's safe to say I didn't hate any of it. 

I should add that I have no training in music whatsoever and that these listening were all done within a (too) short period of time, at different times (and moods) of day, and with different setups (home, poor speakers or headphones or out walking) and all of that combined with the aforementioned ignorance of technical matters makes this evaluation's conclusions highly dubious, even for me.

I suggest you take the time to listen to them all by yourselves and make up your own mind. In my opinion it's worth the time spent.

Best regards.


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