# Your 100 Best Modern Tunes



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

This may strike you as a ridiculous idea, but bear with me...

As you'll have noticed, there have been a few recent threads regarding "modern" music, and the usual arguments have ensued. No need to go over it again.
On this thread, _some guy_ said of the music of the past 100 years, "It is fine, meaning it is worth listening to. It repays repeated listening as well. It is enough. ... Start by assuming that there's nothing wrong with it. See where that leads you." A sensible idea, obviously.
Then I noticed the revival of an old (and short) thread begun by _science_ regarding the great "pops" works - as _science_ said there, "Please don't take "great" too seriously - I know a lot of you won't admit the possibility of "great pops" works if you do, and anyway, I only mean something like "famous" or, if it's not unforgivably redundant, "popular.""

Now, it struck me that how I got into classical music as a teenager was by listening to these "pops" - your Albinoni Adagios and your Sorcerer's Apprentices. On that thread I drew attention to a now-defunct BBC radio show called "Your Hundred Best Tunes", which played "that sort of thing".

And _then_ I got to thinking, Can we do this sort of thing for modern music?
By which I don't mean, Is there modern music that sounds just like the popular old stuff?
I mean, Can we look at the vast range of modern music and pick out "highlights" that could provide a gateway into that music, in the same way that "The Classic Experience" worked for classical music and me many years ago?
As you can see from that track list, these are short pieces (most shorter than 5 minutes, nothing longer than 8) and many are excerpts from larger works. And, significantly, the selection is not well representative of classical music as a whole. So there's an inherent "dumbing down" involved in the process.
But still, can we do this sort of thing for modern music? Just as, if someone says "classical music is crap/difficult", we can point to "Your Hundred Best Tunes" and ask, "but have you heard this?", can we hear someone say "modern music is crap/difficult" and respond with this theoretical "Your 100 Best Modern Tunes" and ask "well, have you at least listened to all of _this_?"

*The purpose of this thread isn't to invite suggestions just yet, though*: I'm curious first about whether TC contributors who are enthusiastic and knowledgable about modern music think the idea is feasible or even desirable (and, among those who are OK with the idea, is there a subset who'd be opposed to the process of compiling some sort of list!).

Now, I know there's already a "TC Top 150 Recommended Modern Classical Works" list, but that's focused on complete works. (And of course there's plenty of scope for argument over how "modern" some of the music actually is! This is the sort of thing that would need to be considered.)

Let me just give a specific example. Dvorak wrote quite a bit of piano music, but only one piece seems to be popular, the Humoresque in G flat (one of 8 in that opus). You hear it and it immediately strikes you as the sort of thing that would indeed be popular. Can we do the same for a living composer? Is there one of, to pick a work off the top of my head, Boulez's "Notations" that stands out from the others? Or is it foolish to look at modern music that way?

(edited to put in bold something that 2 of the posters seem to have already missed!) (Not wishing to be ungrateful for the contributions, just that I'm right now more curious about what people think of the concept)


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Apart from short pieces I'm not sure classical music is often about a standout tune, it tends to be more about a larger structure with more numerous ideas and their interrelation.


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## Freischutz (Mar 6, 2014)

starry said:


> Apart from short pieces I'm not sure classical music is often about a standout tune, it tends to be more about a larger structure with more numerous ideas and their interrelation.


If I'm not misinterpreting Nereffid, I think the point is basically to have something like that Classic Experience CD but for modern music. I think it's supposed to be deliberately misrepresentative by taking things out of context in order to provide hooks for listeners. "Hey try this, if you like it, you can dig deeper."

There are surely loads of places to start! And of course it depends on the kind of music. For minimalism, I'm pretty sure this could work as a hook:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Freischutz said:


> If I'm not misinterpreting Nereffid, I think the point is basically to have something like that Classic Experience CD but for modern music. I think it's supposed to be deliberately misrepresentative by taking things out of context in order to provide hooks for listeners. "Hey try this, if you like it, you can dig deeper."


That's certainly one aspect of what I'm trying to get at - fairly "safe" points of entry into modern music. But at the same time there's the question of whether one can be _too_ safe, so I'd assume there'd be room for pieces that for the uninitiated would produce a "whoa! what?" reaction on first listen.

Another facet of the Classic Experience/Hundred Best Tunes format is the implication that there's a (nebulous) canon of "standards" that everyone, even people who don't listen to much classical music at all, knows (and generally likes). And what I'm curious about is, in an idealised world where everyone on TC is enthusiastic about modern music, what would be the equivalent set of "standards" that the general public knows from adverts, TV and movies?


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Just for the fun of it!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Alfacharger said:


> Just for the fun of it!


If we remove all the sarcasm out of that, it's _exactly_ what I envision!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

My first thought would be that no highlights or "pops" type of hooks are available in some modern music and therein lies the problem, but then I remember quite recently hearing the same theme or motif in the beginning of Ligeti's Lux Aerterna and Lontano both. So maybe there is something to it after all -- though admittedly Ligeti may be more accessible than some. We may need a little guidance as to how to pick out these catchy phrases to hum in the shower. 

I doubt I am qualified to participate, though I could nominate about 10 pieces maybe.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2014)

I'm not sure general accessibility is the goal, Weston, but I could be interpreting this thread incorrectly. Relatively more accessible than the rest, to one whose ears are ready to hear modern classical music, seems to be the goal.

I think ArtRock's post fits perfectly, though it kinda annoys me that the Threnody of all things is Penderecki's most popular work. Nice sound experiment, I suppose, but, strictly looking at earlier Penderecki, I'm finding his vocal music to have more replay value. And I kinda like some neo-romantic Penderecki too. *ducks*


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I think it's absolutely fine to listen to some bleeding chunks (and you might also get some "movements" as well). The chunks could probably best communicated by timing on a youtube video. I've already thought of a few


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> *The purpose of this thread isn't to invite suggestions just yet, though*: I'm curious first about whether TC contributors who are enthusiastic and knowledgable about modern music think the idea is feasible or even desirable (and, among those who are OK with the idea, is there a subset who'd be opposed to the process of compiling some sort of list!).


Nereffid, I think it's time to follow through on your idea, which is a good one. The time for caution has passed: people have recommendations (10, in one case), and are sitting on them till you give the go-ahead to post them. The way to test the feasibility of the thread is not to discuss it in advance, but just to let it play out.

At least, that's my view.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Bartok and Shostakovich would be a good start.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Just a start. Modern music is not without it's "catchy tunes."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

It strikes me as ridiculous when any poster requests 20 or more specific citations of anything. 

Requesting, suggesting 100 of anything is outrageous


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

It looks like the list was already made. Top 150 Modern Works even. http://www.talkclassical.com/17996-compilation-tc-top-recommended.html


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2014)

Read the OP, brah


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

A greatest hits collection? I usually look down on those type of collections for Classical Music. And I would say Modern would be the absolutely toughest style to make that kind of cd on. But Clair De Lune is an easy choice as well as Gymnopédie No.1. It seems like the Impressionists/Minimalists were the best at writing tunes. Here's another excerpt. 
Part - Spiegel Im Spiegel (Chillout Excerpt) - Tasmin Little and Martin Roscoe - Classical Chillout *(4:04). And I know Ligeti has "The Devil's Staircase". So there's 4 right there.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> It looks like the list was already made. Top 150 Modern Works even. http://www.talkclassical.com/17996-compilation-tc-top-recommended.html


But are those all _hummable?_ :lol:


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> Nereffid, I think it's time to follow through on your idea, which is a good one. The time for caution has passed: people have recommendations (10, in one case), and are sitting on them till you give the go-ahead to post them. The way to test the feasibility of the thread is not to discuss it in advance, but just to let it play out.
> 
> At least, that's my view.


Actually, what I was hoping for was a discussion of how one could go about producing something other than just a whole bunch of random suggestions of music written in the last 100 years. 
And, Is there enough interest in producing some sort of list, through voting or organised discussion, that would be a _modern_ (and by modern, come on, guys, you must know I don't mean Rachmaninov! That's why I mentioned Boulez in the OP) equivalent of the "Hundred Best Tunes" list.
And also, just to make absolutely clear: friendly "hooks" are nice but in my vision of this hypothetical list they're in no way necessary.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Come to think of it, the sort of end-product I have in mind might be exemplified by the soundtrack album for the film "Shutter Island" - track listing here. Stretches from Max Richter's dreamy, radio-friendly "On the Nature of Daylight" to Naim June Paik's collage "Hommage à John Cage".
(Side note for those who haven't seen the movie: the Mahler is there for plot purposes, not because of its modernist credentials!)


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I would like specific examples maybe with Youtube timing indices stating what specifically it is about a work that catches the attention. "I like Elizabeth Schplatterboomerklang's Opus 1.5 Sonata for Rubber Band and Prepared Moose Antler ensemble in Q minor because at 3:41 there is the sound of the antlers breaking at the climax of the piece, signifying a nihilistic ideology toward _capreolinae_ and all they represent." Something like that.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Weston said:


> I would like specific examples maybe with Youtube timing indices stating what specifically it is about a work that catches the attention. "I like Elizabeth Schplatterboomerklang's Opus 1.5 Sonata for Rubber Band and Prepared Moose Antler ensemble in Q minor because at 3:41 there is the sound of the antlers breaking at the climax of the piece, signifying a nihilistic ideology toward _capreolinae_ and all they represent." Something like that.


I'd say it would depend on the music in question. Some of it's sufficiently well-known/notorious (Penderecki's Threnody), some of it's "accessible" enough that it's perhaps obviously a good choice on first listen (Reich's Electric Counterpoint). If it's one of several grouped pieces (say, Ligeti's Etudes) then I suppose one might have to discuss "why this one, and not another one?"
Or if it's a very obscure piece- but I'm thinking that very obscure pieces perhaps might be their nature be excluded.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I often hum the opening theme of the finale of Schoenberg's violin concerto, I find it really catchy - though I probably hum it, well, I was gonna say off-key, but you know what I mean.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

If you want to pursue this further, I think you need to define "modern". Personally, I would not have included Debussy or Satie in a list of "modern" classical music.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> If you want to pursue this further, I think you need to define "modern". Personally, I would not have included Debussy or Satie in a list of "modern" classical music.


Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I didn't want to merely invite suggestions. As I said in the OP. "And of course there's plenty of scope for argument over how "modern" some of the music actually is! This is the sort of thing that would need to be considered."
Perhaps some sort of (ultimately, arbitrary) cutoff date combined with the deliberate exclusion of some music or named composers. A reasonable definition might be worked out among those wishing to get involved.


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## Freischutz (Mar 6, 2014)

Maybe we should start by _not_ assuming this hasn't been tried commercially before. Whack a few search terms into Amazon and you get these:

Discover Music of the 20th Century

20th Century Masterpieces

Their usefulness all depends on where you want to draw your boundaries, but each represents the likes of Debussy and Gershwin, moving up to Prokofiev and Shostakovich, Janacek and Bartok, Schoenberg and his ilk, Ives, Varese, Messiaen, Stockhausen, Boulez, Reich, Adams, Birtwistle, Takemitsu, Ades and so on.

It's possible, it's sensible, it's easy, it's been done before!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Yes, there's also EMI's "100 Best 20th Century Classics", which is probably the only time Berio, Boulez, Lloyd Webber, and McCartney have shared disc space!

Of course, doing something commercially and doing something for fun are two different things (usually)...


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

I think we have to start by discarding the first 50 years of the 20th Century. 
1940 is no longer modern. It's 74 years ago. 

To compare Handel wrote 12 Concerto Grossi Op.6 in 1740 - 74 years later Beethoven premiered his 8th Symphony.
I'm sure no-one was talking about Handel as modern at that time.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> But Clair De Lune is an easy choice as well as Gymnopédie No.1.


The funny thing is that both of those are from the 19th century...



neoshredder said:


> It seems like the Impressionists/Minimalists were the best at writing tunes.


And yet Debussy's music was cited as _the_ prime example of "tuneless, horrible modern music" by many critics in his day...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

"The Girl With The Flaxen Hair is as beautiful a "tune" as you could ever hear." sayeth my avatar.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I think we use the term "modern" for lack of a better one. I differentiate modern as a genre from contemporary as a time frame. For me contemporary means within my lifetime, which these days still allows for considerable latitude.

(It seems as though we've had this duiscussion before too, but that's okay.)


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I think the term PostModern would've been a better term. Modern is a style imo describing Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Satie, Bartok, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and etc.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

What will come after Post Modern? And how will we describe new Modern music. Neo-Modern?

All this terminology and use of Modern for a specific genre 100 years ago was very shortsighted of someone.
Let's retcon the 'Modern' era and call it something else. Any ideas?


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

MagneticGhost said:


> What will come after Post Modern? And how will we describe new Modern music. Neo-Modern?


I favor "ancient." I have a cyclical view of history, you understand.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Perhaps we'll live to see the beginning of a new Renaissance.


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