# Beethoven Symphony Game



## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

For all those people who took part in the Shostakovich symphony game, you know the rules. If not:

1. You can vote every 9 hours.
2. For each vote, you have a +1 and two -1s or a -2.

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 5 
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5 
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5

Let the games commence.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 3 (-2)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5 
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 (+1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I do believe you have overlooked Beethoven's masterwork:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 3 
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 6 (+1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3 (-2)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 
Richard Wagner Symphony in C WWV 29 - 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> #1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5
> #2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 3
> #3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5
> #4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 6 (+1)
> ...


#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 1 (-2)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 6 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

After jani:

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
*#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 0 (-1) out*
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 (-1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

Oh crap - should we include his (hypothetical) tenth?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Why does no one take me seriously?????


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Why does no one take me seriously?????


We all wonder.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

An Die Freude said:


> We all wonder.


But Wagner's Symphony in C should be counted in this game. JUST LISTEN TO IT!


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

composerofavantgarde said:


> but wagner's symphony in c should be counted in this game. Just listen to it!


BUT IT'S BY WAGNER!!!!!

Now to the more pressing issue, what abouts LvB's 10th?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

an die freude said:


> but it's by wagner!!!!!


BUT IT'S BEETHOVEN BY WAGNER!!!!! random text


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

So Prokofiev's First should be in the Haydn game<<<


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

An Die Freude said:


> So Prokofiev's First should be in the Haydn game<<<


No it shouldn't because it sounds like Prokofiev. Wagner's symphony in C should be in the Beethoven game BECAUSE IT IS BEETHOVEN BY WAGNER!!!!!!!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

An Die Freude said:


> BUT IT'S BY WAGNER!!!!!
> 
> Now to the more pressing issue, what abouts LvB's 10th?


LvB's 10th should _not_ be included because the current reconstruction we have of it is ****. I've been meaning to reconstruct it myself based on the sketches and _actually fix it up in order to make worthwhile music. _


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

And you destroyed my beloved #2 *leaves this thread*


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

After maestro267:

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 4 (-1)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6 (+1)
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5 (-1)


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

after Trout: 

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 3 (-1)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4 (-1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 6 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

After science:

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 3 
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 (-1)
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5 (-1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6 (+1)
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

K. Spieler and I clashed: 

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 1
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 6
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 6 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I edited mine. ^^^^


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

After Klavierspieler

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 2 (-1)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 3 (-1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 (+1)


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

after mmsbls

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 1 (-1)
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4 (+1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4 (-1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

After toddler

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 1 
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 (+1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3 (-2)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

It would be a fun (and evil) thing if we made No. 5 2nd last.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Toddlertoddy said:


> It would be a fun (and evil) thing if we made No. 5 2nd last.


That's what I'm trying to do


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Of course, we all know Brahms #1 is the greatest Beethoven symphony of all. 

*#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 0 (-1)*
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4 (-1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7 (+1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

pjang23 said:


> Of course, we all know Brahms #1 is the greatest Beethoven symphony of all.
> 
> *#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 0 (-1)*
> #3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5
> ...


*NO, WAGNER'S SYMPHONY IN C IS THE GREATEST BEETHOVEN SYMPHONY OF ALL.

*on another note: 
*HOW DARE YOU KILL BETTHOVEN'S FIRST SYMPHONY?!?!*


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> *NO, WAGNER'S SYMPHONY IN C IS THE GREATEST BEETHOVEN SYMPHONY OF ALL.
> 
> *on another note:
> *HOW DARE YOU KILL BETTHOVEN'S FIRST SYMPHONY?!?!*


Two rages from COAG. I'm getting good at this.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 (+1) Let's not be stupid here
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 (-1)
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 4 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

After Toddlertoddy:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6 (+1)
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 3 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 (-1)


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

After Trout:

7/8

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 1
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

After Connor71:
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 0 (-1) OUT
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7 (+ 1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

After jani

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 (+1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 2 (-2)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

jani said:


> After Connor71:
> #3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
> #4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 4
> #5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4
> ...


It seems you are missing a -1.

After ComposerOfAvantGarde:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 2
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 (+1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 (-1)


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 3 -2
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3 +1
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 1 (-2)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7 (+1)


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
*#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 0 (-1)*
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4 (-1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 8 (+1)


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

*6. Symphony #4 In B Flat Major, Op. 60
7. Symphony #8 In F Major, Op. 93
8. Symphony #1 In C Major, Op. 21
9. Symphony #2 In D Major, Op. 36*

So far.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 3 (-1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 7 (-1)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4 (+1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5 (-2)


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 2 (-2)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 6 (+1)


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

After pjang23:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 7 (+1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 2
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 4 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5 (-1)


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

after trout

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6 (-1)
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 3 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

after TT: 

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 (+1)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 3 (-1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 2 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

After science

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 (-1) 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 4 
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4 (+1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 2 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 4 (-1)


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 2 (-2)
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3 (+1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 4


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

After pjang23

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6 (+1)
*#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 0 (-2) *:devil:
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 4
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 4


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

After ComposerOfAvantGarde:

7/6

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 2
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 4
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 4


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

After maestro267 (and staying ON TOPIC!)

Post deleted because, somehow, I missed a whole page!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Conor71 said:


> After ComposerOfAvantGarde:
> 
> 7/6
> 
> ...


#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 6
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 0 (-2) OUT
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 4
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5 ( +1)


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

After jani:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 7 (+1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 4 (-1)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

After trout
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 7 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 4 (+1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2 (-2)


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

After Art Rock:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 (-2)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 (+1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

After Klavierspieler

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 3 (-2)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 3 (+1)


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

After mmsbls:

7/9

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 3
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 6
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 1


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 3
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 4 (-2)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2 (+1)


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 2 (-1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3 (-1)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 3 (+1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

After pjang23

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 3 (+1)
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 3
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 1 (-2)


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

You are a terrible person

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 3
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 1 (-2)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2 (+1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

VOTE DOWN THE NINTH!!! white


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> VOTE DOWN THE NINTH!!! white


NO DON'T! VOTE DOWN THE SEVENTH!

Beethoven himself said that Eroica was his favorite work. When he was asked " What was your favorite work Ludwig" on the final days of his life!


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

I can't look...

After Toddlertoddy:

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 4 (+1)
*#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 0 (-1) gone* 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 1 (-1)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jani said:


> NO DON'T! VOTE DOWN THE SEVENTH!
> 
> Beethoven himself said that Eroica was his favorite work. When he was asked " What was your favorite work Ludwig" on the final days of his life!


Yes. I believe that we should keep no. 3 and get rid of no. 9 and then no. 7


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

After Trout (curse you):

#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 2 (-2)
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2 (+1)


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Klavierspieler said:


> After Trout (curse_ you):
> 
> #3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 2 (-2)
> #9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 2 (+1)


#3 (Op. 55, E flat Major) -2 (-2) OUT
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) -2 (+1)


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Final result:

1. Symphony #9 in D Minor "Choral", Op. 125
2. Symphony #3 in E Flat Major "Eroica", Op. 55
3. Symphony #7 in A Major, Op. 92
4. Symphony #6 in F Major "Pastoral", Op. 68
5. Symphony #5 in C Minor, Op. 67
6. Symphony #4 In B Flat Major, Op. 60
7. Symphony #8 In F Major, Op. 93
8. Symphony #1 In C Major, Op. 21
9. Symphony #2 In D Major, Op. 36


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Trout said:


> Final result:
> 
> 1. Symphony #9 in D Minor "Choral", Op. 125
> 2. Symphony #3 in E Flat Major "Eroica", Op. 55
> ...


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

The ninth? Boooo!! Why hadn't I participated earlier!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

eorrific said:


> The ninth? Boooo!! Why hadn't I participated earlier!


Yeah, I also joined the game far too late.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

This is the order from the link in my sig (for comparison):

1 (1). 9 
2 (3). 3
3 (7). 5
4 (8). 7
5 (12). 6
6 (34). 8
7 (55). 4
8 (100). 2
9 (114). 1


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> This is the order from the link in my sig (for comparison):
> 
> 1 (1). 9
> 2 (3). 3
> ...


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Only one symphony ended up where I personally would have placed it, but I have no strong argument with the result. Is it just because the 9th "won" or is the overall order heretical somehow?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> Only one symphony ended up where I personally would have placed it, but I have no strong argument with the result. Is it just because the 9th "won" or is the overall order heretical somehow?


I would guess that the only thing heretical might be that the 5th isn't higher than it is.

I'm personally fine with that part - I just never participated in this thread because by the time I saw it the 2nd was already gone. Both the 2nd and the 4th were far too low on the list (and the 3rd was far too high) for my taste.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

Yay the ninth won!

Cue COAG's NO.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Are we gonna start a new one?

Edit: Ok i am gonna a start a new round since lots of people started playing too late.



1. You can vote every 9 hours.
2. For each vote, you have a +1 and two -1s or a -2.

#1 (Op. 21, C Major) - 5 
#2 (Op. 36, D Major) - 5 
#3 (Op. 55, E Flat Major) - 5 
#4 (Op. 60, B Flat Major) - 5 
#5 (Op. 67, C Minor) - 5 
#6 (Op. 68, F Major) - 5 
#7 (Op. 92, A Major) - 5 
#8 (Op. 93, F Major) - 5 
#9 (Op. 125, D Minor) - 5

Let the games commence.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't think many of us would want to participate in the same game again, so perhaps a different game?


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Trout said:


> I don't think many of us would want to participate in the same game again, so perhaps a different game?


Why not, how about a Beethoven String quartet/Piano concerto game? or Tchaikovsky symphony game?


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

jani said:


> Why not, how about a Beethoven String quartet/Piano concerto game?


A Beethoven string quartet game was done here and the piano concerto game will be very short and pretty predictable considering he only wrote 5. I actually might be interested in a Mahler symphony game (which would include _Das Lied von der Erde_) if it has not already been done.


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