# Null



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

* Let's skip this round.*


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I can see the photo of Weidinger, but don't hear the music at all. Is there an alternative video ?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> I can see the photo of Weidinger, but don't hear the music at all. Is there an alternative video ?


It plays on yotube.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> It plays on yotube.


Haha, it plays also embedded on Talk classical. It just had been cued at the end of the aria for some reason. OK, let's find out who is better.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I would like to hear this aria sung by a soprano with a darker voice color, like Maria Callas or Leyla Gencer. Youtube is offering me Callas, but I'll resist and wait if she shows up in a later round, I don't know her in this aria yet. 
As for the two sopranos in this contest, the voice of Weidinger sounds more feminine to me, but it also has some kind of imperfection I don't know the name for. Or maybe it is not an official imperfection, but it is something I dislike quite reliably. Like an uneven color bordering on squeaky. 
Cerquetti is smoother, so she has my vote. 
But, really, I am waiting for a different voice type.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Experienced same problems as posts above - Recording ends at the six minute mark with eight minutes of silence following - Video was cued to start after the six minute mark thus no sound.

Interesting interview with Anita Cerquetti - 

SZ: What is your opinion about chest voice?
AC: I hate it.
SZ: To me you sound as if you used pinches of it as Gioconda.
AC: Well, I used chest notes despite myself—but lightly. The part brought them out of me. I couldn’t sing with heavy chest resonance if I wanted to because I’ve always tried to avoid it.
SZ: Are chest notes harmful to the voice?
AC: Yes. They ruin the middle voice, and they are ugly. I prefer a note that is less forte but more beautiful. If you throw a note into the chest you hear the difference when the sound rises and passes the first _passaggio _[change of register]. You hear that it’s no longer the same voice, that something has happened. It’s as if you open a door and find a narrower hallway because the notes in the middle voice are comparatively thinner and weaker.









Anita Cerquetti - Bel Canto Society


Anita Cerquetti in Opera Fanatic: Stefan and the Divas: “Singers should stay motionless when they sing. Otherwise the voice shifts. The singer has to be an actor through gestures, face, arms and hands. Through the voice.“ Demonstration: Norma Born in 1931, Cerquetti first studied violin and sang...



dev.belcantosociety.org


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> The Weidinger link used in the first post plays but without audio in the US - This version works -


I replaced it. Thanks. Perhaps it was Premium???


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I replaced it. Thanks. Perhaps it was Premium???


Maybe. I have a Premium, too.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Experienced same problems as posts above - Recording ends at the six minute mark with eight minutes of silence following - Video was cued to start after the six minute mark thus no sound.
> 
> Interesting interview with Anita Cerquetti -
> 
> ...


Yes. She certainly avoids sounding darker in this aria.

And La Gioconda is exactly a recording I have with her and like.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

*Voice of Experience : Why Christine Weidinger Left the Met Path to Stardom*

As a tyro, she wins a big-time contest and is rewarded with a role in “La Boheme” at the Metropolitan Opera. That mighty establishment finds the soprano “useful” and keeps her busy for the next few seasons, offering better and better opportunities.

But one day, Marilyn Horne, a trusted colleague, suggests that the path to stardom lies not in rising through the ranks.
“If you want to develop as an artist,” says Horne, “then get away from the spotlight. Find your own style and voice. Leave this cozy arrangement at the Met--or be doomed to mediocrity.”

Christine Weidinger followed that advice and in 1975, left for Europe where, indeed, she came in for the vast, often knockabout experience that builds character, not to mention repertory and sophistication.

“But to this day, I’m not sure I did the right thing,” says Weidinger, who sings the demanding leading role in Mozart’s “Cosi fan Tutte,” the Music Center Opera revival that opens Monday for five performances.

“Maybe it was foolish to walk away from such a sweet deal as I had at the Met. After all, that’s what most singers aspire to and there I was, giving it all up, breaking my ties there.

“Why? Because that fear--being mediocre--had me by the throat.”









Voice of Experience : Why Christine Weidinger Left the Met Path to Stardom


As a tyro, she wins a big-time contest and is rewarded with a role in "La Boheme" at the Metropolitan Opera.




www.latimes.com


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Cerquetti needs to sing only a single note for her vocal superiority to be obvious. Her style, musicianship and expressiveness are far better too. Weidinger was a house soprano? Sounds about right.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I replaced it. Thanks. Perhaps it was Premium???


You're more than welcome - I do think that you need to sign out of Premium before adding your videos as that has been the source of all of the difficulties that you've been experiencing lately. Do your research, sign out, post the videos, and then sign back in.

Plus one on Cerquetti...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> You're more than welcome - I do think that you need to sign out of Premium before adding your videos as that has been the source of all of the difficulties that you've been experiencing lately. Do your research, sign out, post the videos, and then sign back in.
> 
> Plus one on Cerquetti...


Sooooooooooooooooooo many steps. I do put the info following the link but that is not enough? Why do I hear singers differently from other people I wonder. I thought Weidinger sounded so beautiful. Now I have to take her out of several contests and find replacements.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Why do I hear singers differently from other people I wonder. I thought Weidinger sounded so beautiful. Now I have to take her out of several contests and find replacements.


In some way her voice is very sweet, I wrote "feminine" before. Maybe that (possible) imperfection I have no name for doesn't disturb you. I, in turn, do not hear the "lacking core", which is so important to Opus123. So what ? If you try one or two other arias with her in the contests, you will find out if the grumbling is consistent  . This aria seems to me like built in squeaky. Almost like Beatrice di Tenda. I can't bear Sutherland singing that role (Beatrice), it feels almost as an ultrasound. But I like Sutherland, otherwise.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *Why do I hear singers differently from other people I wonder. I thought Weidinger sounded so beautiful. Now I have to take her out of a bunch of contests.*


I don't really know why you hear singers differently from the other people here on the forum - I have a similar problem - I can't really hear what everyone else is hearing despite my best efforts to try and differentiate the various voices - I like everything that I hear and think that everyone sounds wonderful but the truth is that I can't tell one soprano or mezzo from another (except for Callas - you would have to be deaf to not be able to pick her out) which is why I put so much emphasis on looks rather than talent -  - I may not know whether what I'm hearing is worth listening to but I sure as hell can tell whether what I'm seeing is worth looking at thus my tendency to put more weight on "ankles thinner than calves" and "ample bosoms" and "shapely bottoms" than I do on anything that involves actual singing... Hey, it works for me and that's all that really matters...

Don't be discouraged by the lack of enthusiasm being shown for your selections - They probably wouldn't even like their own selections if given a chance to make them - There are many variations of the phrase "Some people just aren't happy unless they're miserable" but they all pretty much mean the same thing - It's not the contests that attract us every day - It's the chance to find something to complain about the contests that we find to be so entertaining -

If you give the people what they want, they'll show up every time - So keep up the steady parade of mediocrity - Be the guide that brings us to what we seek - the second-rate, the also-rans, and the so-so - The singers who make us shrug our shoulders with indifference - Give us the mundane - and the fair-to-middling - the career minor leaguers - the no-names and no-talents meant to be relegated to a lower division - Give us something to complain about - and not just run-of-the-mill every-day garden-variety complaints - but bitter complaints - seething with rage complaints - complaints that we can really sink our sharpened fangs into as if we were Angela Gheorghiu before she spent like 25,000 dollars on cosmetic dentistry... 

You're American... You're probably not familiar with the the phrase "a dog's breakfast"... Look it up, John... And you shall find what you're looking for and what we are seeking...


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

@Shaughnessy is a wise man.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> When you sign into your YouTube Premium account, an identifier is added which allows you to access material that is not available to non-Premium members. YouTube does not want you to be able to copy and paste these premium videos and introduce them into an alternate location such as this forum. However, the methods they use to prevent you from doing this with Premium videos can also interfere with your ability to do a straightforward copy and paste with standard non-Premium clips thus the difficulties that you've been experiencing with "Video Not Available" notices.
> 
> Also, when you fail to sign out of Premium, the cue settings that you are using do not work - I can see the yellow colored cue mark which you set when sharing the video - It can clearly be seen against the red time line which runs across the bottom of the video but the cue isn't being transferred with your copy and paste - YouTube is limiting the amount and kind of information that you can transfer with the copy and paste. And so, if you don't sign out, none of your cue marks will work - You have to sign out.
> 
> ...


Okay, I checked and I can open a new tab and sign out of Youtube just on that tab but not in my browser. I will try that. Thanks. That is fascinating about you not being able to hear the differences in voices as easily as most of us Hmmmmmm. At what age did you start listening seriously to opera? Many of us started quite young ( like in our teens) and maybe our ears were fine tuned when the brain was more plastic. That snapped me out of my funk. Fascinating. Hmmmmmm. I think my weakness in determining if someone is emotionally discerning in an aria is from my family dynamics, although in real life I am very sensitive to others emotions... just not it seems in music.
You are much younger than my but I feel like your younger brother sometimes 
I took a gorgeous date to Elektra and he couldn't tell who was singing ( we were up high) when I easily told who was who from the sound.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Weidinger was wise to accept the steady job is all I can say.

Cerquetti is of another caliber altogether as Woodduck asserts above.

Wish she would’ve accepted a slower entry into the profession instead of being thrown into it at the deeper end. Acclaimed as the new Italian dramatic soprano, she was given the heaviest roles almost immediately (1951 opera _debut as *Aida*!), _was offered Abigaille in *Nabucco* for her 1957 La Scala debut. What, Callas canceled *Norma *in Roma (1958)? Let’s call Cerquetti, who is already singing it in Napoli! She can do both. Cerquetti retired in 1961. One could surmise that the paralyzed vocal cord was a heSven-sent. When she was interviewed by Stefan Zucker in his very strange film, she seemed a happy house wife.

The voice is beautiful, silvery and dark, sizable, ample, even in tone and ductile. She has reasonable command of most of the attributes of bel-canto, but no trill (a major fault) and sometimes falls behind the beat. Occasionally, she is clumsy, but this is a testing aria. The breath control can be spotty - the work up to the last _acuto, _where she almost misses it and can’t sustain it. (This is live by the way)
Cerquetti had one year of vocal studies before her operatic debut.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Null ? Ah, @Seattleoperafan , now I see Weidinger is your true love and you cannot bear people writing not 100% nice stuff about her. I have the same problem with Marina Rebeka and the "Sombre foret" competition, which I foolishly promised to make, maybe it will never happen.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> Null ? Ah, @Seattleoperafan , now I see Weidinger is your true love and you cannot bear people writing not 100% nice stuff about her. I have the same problem with Marina Rebeka and the "Sombre foret" competition, which I foolishly promised to make, maybe it will never happen.


I think the same would occur if I made a competition with my favorites Tatiana Serjan or Ekaterina Semenchuk or Vladislav Sulimsky. They are too contemporary, too underrecorded or underfilmed, their repertoire is overexplored. They would be swept away by shadows of the past.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

And I join the question: why null? Miss Weidinger sounds nice, it's the case when carrier scale shouldn't diminish our idea of an artist. Indeed, I voted for Cerquetti, because I can't help it. 
Several years ago I opened Spanish Wikipedia and discovered that she died (there is a considerable necrologue column on the main page, reading it is a kind of weird hobby). I didn't hear about her before and began a research. Hence I'm her fan, her Norma is one of my favorites.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Null ? Ah, @Seattleoperafan , now I see Weidinger is your true love and you cannot bear people writing not 100% nice stuff about her. I have the same problem with Marina Rebeka and the "Sombre foret" competition, which I foolishly promised to make, maybe it will never happen.


Thanks. Not a true love but another in a long list of singers I really like that hardly anyone likes here. You are new here. Jane Eaglen, Alessandra Marc, Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, any Joan Sutherland after 1961 ( very disappointing to me) , Astrid Varnay, Dimitrova, Eva Marton, much of Marilyn Horne. Where I tend to do well is with male singers I am not all that interested in but whom I have discovered just with research on the subject.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks. Not a true love but another in a long list of singers I really like that hardly anyone likes here. You are new here. Jane Eaglen, Alessandra Marc, Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, any Joan Sutherland after 1961 ( very disappointing to me) , Astrid Varnay, Dimitrova, Eva Marton, much of Marilyn Horne. Where I tend to do well is with male singers I am not all that interested in but whom I have discovered just with research on the subject.


I am pretty sure somebody here wrote they like older Sutherland specifically. Me too. Norma and Maria Stuarda. I sm still a beginner. All the names you mention are famous, only Alessandra Marc is the one I personally haven't heard of before.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks. Not a true love but another in a long list of singers I really like that hardly anyone likes here. You are new here. Jane Eaglen, Alessandra Marc, Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, any Joan Sutherland after 1961 ( very disappointing to me) , Astrid Varnay, Dimitrova, Eva Marton, much of Marilyn Horne. Where I tend to do well is with male singers I am not all that interested in but whom I have discovered just with research on the subject.


I like at least Dimitrova, Podles, Varnay, Blythe. Sutherland is an artist of such a level, that criticism looks like petty fault-finding. She's beautiful warts and so. 
And I like Bartoli, keeping mum.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> I am pretty sure somebody here wrote they like older Sutherland specifically. Me too. Norma and Maria Stuarda. I sm still a beginner. All the names you mention are famous, only Alessandra Marc is the one I personally haven't heard before.


You are a breath of fresh air. You weren't around when most of these differences were being discussed. You have injected a breath of fresh air into the discussion. I love her in Maria Stuarda and you give me the courage to post a thread with her it in Lucretia Borgia where she was fabulous.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> Sutherland is an artist of such a level, that criticism looks like petty fault-finding.


Well, petty fault finding is what the game is about, or ?

@Seattleoperafan you make me blush.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> Sutherland is an artist of such a level, that criticism looks like petty fault-finding.


Sutherland is an artist of such a level that the unwillingness to criticize her looks like sheer contrariety. 

Is your statement principled, prejudiced or provocative? Are there other singers you think should be immune to criticism? Should they be eliminated from consideration in these enjoyable matches? Would you take a stand against petty fault-finding and desist from participating if those singers were included?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Sutherland is an artist of such a level that the unwillingness to criticize her looks like sheer contrariety.
> 
> Is your statement principled, prejudiced or provocative? Are there other singers you think should be immune to criticism? Should they be eliminated from consideration in these enjoyable matches? Would you take a stand against petty fault-finding and desist from participating if those singers were included?


Did I offend anyone? It's even interesting. 
Let's look at the questions in order they are put. 
1. Neither principled, nor prejudiced, nor provocative. This all us extrinsic to me. 
2. None is immune to criticism, until the very criticism generates strong doubts in its object's professional suitability.
3. Of course not! 
4. Oh, no. My bad taste and excessive tolerance to mediocre singers is well known here.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> Did I offend anyone?


Probably not.


> None is immune to criticism, until the very criticism generates strong doubts in its object's professional suitability.


Anyone who doubts Sutherland's professional suitability based on someone else's criticism of her needs to read less, listen more, and do self-esteem affirmation exercises in front of a mirror.


> My bad taste and excessive tolerance to mediocre singers is well known here.


No comment.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Anyone who doubts Sutherland's professional suitability based on someone else's criticism of her needs to read less, listen more, and do self-esteem affirmation exercises in front of a mirror.


Wonderful! Although I always liked Snow White's stepmother.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Probably not.


Then this mess is even less needed.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> Then this mess is even less needed.


Forethought is better than hindsight.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Forethought is better than hindsight.


... For everyone.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Did this contest get cancelled because of Weindinger? Absurd.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Did this contest get cancelled because of Weindinger? Absurd.


I felt stupid for putting her in with everyone's very negative response to her because I was excited to have found her and I thought she sounded really good. so I felt what's the point .Nobody else will like her either and I will open myself to more people making me feel my taste is bad. It hit me on a bad day when myriad things went the wrong way. I have rarely killed a contest but since I go to the trouble to create these I think I have the right to do so occasionally to. I rarely take contestants so personally but I usually stick with generally accepted artists as opposed to one I felt like I had discovered for the group. Normally I hope I am not so difficult to deal with.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I felt stupid for putting her in with everyone's very negative response to her because I was excited to have found her and I thought she sounded really good. so I felt what's the point .Nobody else will like her either and I will open myself to more people making me feel my taste is bad. It hit me on a bad day when myriad things went the wrong way. I have rarely killed a contest but since I go to the trouble to create these I think I have the right to do so occasionally to. I rarely take contestants so personally but I usually stick with generally accepted artists as opposed to one I felt like I had discovered for the group. Normally I hope I am not so difficult to deal with.


You are not difficult at all. And Weindinger is not second you know who, but it's not what anyone expected. She's one more interesting but not widely known artist.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I felt stupid for putting her in with everyone's very negative response to her because I was excited to have found her and I thought she sounded really good. so I felt what's the point .Nobody else will like her either and I will open myself to more people making me feel my taste is bad. It hit me on a bad day when myriad things went the wrong way. I have rarely killed a contest but since I go to the trouble to create these I think I have the right to do so occasionally to. I rarely take contestants so personally but I usually stick with generally accepted artists as opposed to one I felt like I had discovered for the group. Normally I hope I am not so difficult to deal with.


Hope today is going better for you. I usually don't contribute to these contests but I do keep an eye on them. Even if your choice wasn't appreciated by the crowd, it still generated some good discussion.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Monsalvat said:


> Hope today is going better for you. I usually don't contribute to these contests but I do keep an eye on them. Even if your choice wasn't appreciated by the crowd, it still generated some good discussion.


I was stressed because I had a friend blow up at me and I can't handle that and I had to end our friendship. Add that to my little frustrations with our contests and I got a little stressed. Everyone has been very nice and I am better. Thanks. I have a very exciting contest tomorrow I think will be well liked.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I was stressed because I had a friend blow up at me and I can't handle that and I had to end our friendship. ...


Ouch ! These things hurt a lot when they happen to me, I can relate or maybe even over-relate to that. Maybe I am ending a friendship right now, although I am trying not to overreact. Well, good luck.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Trust your instincts - These are your contests - They feature your contestants - Don't apologize for the decisions that you've made in good faith.


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