# Music that overstays its welcome



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Some music is just great, but (as they say) the ending is desired some minutes before it arrives. Any nominees out there?


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Any nominees? The number of nominees defies listing. Some composers are more guilty than others, such as, ahem, _Wagner_, whose music goes beyond a few minutes at times.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2012)

No.

If it's something I enjoy, the ending always comes way too soon.

If it's something I don't enjoy, I end it myself, so it never goes on past me wanting it to end.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ramako said:


> ...such as, ahem, _Wagner_...


Well, the OP does say "minutes" and not "hours," so perhaps Wagner doesn't qualify here. :lol:


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

It mostly comes down to the overuse of recapitulation for me. I like some of the works by Bax very much, while many of his others start out great and then go into recapitulation mode, which is tiresome.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Einstein on the Beach was like that for me after about five minutes.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto comes to mind. It seems like the Romantic Composers in general tend to go too long.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto comes to mind. It seems like the Romantic Composers in general tend to go too long.


I actually don't like his first PC( the first movement) very much.


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

Final movement of Beethoven's Symphony No.5.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Heresy - and perhaps related to vulgar performances - but: the finale of Bartok´s 1st String Quartet.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Carpenoctem said:


> Final movement of Beethoven's Symphony No.5.


WHAT!?!??!


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

"Hello, I must be going.
I cannot stay,
I came to say
I must be going.......
I'll stay a week or two,
I'll stay the summer through,
but I am telling you,
I must be going."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

If not 'too long' some works of Bartok seem to me like he did not want to, or could not end his final movements 'properly.' The last of the final movements of the Concerto for orchestra and the 3r piano concerto coming immediately to mind -- what sounds lie 'wrap it up' coda material gets exercised, and then another bit gets exercised, and so on (rather like Vesteralen's little verse, above.) Any one Could Have Been 'the ending.' .... it sounds like he tried several ways 'out' and left them all in the piece


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

jani said:


> WHAT!?!??!


The last couple of minutes seem to go on forever. I always want to yell, "Ok, finish it already!" while listening to it.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Some of the Mahler's symphonies.
Also some long Jazz pieces.
...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> Some of the Mahler's symphonies.
> 
> ...


This is unacceptable.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Re Beethoven's 5th going on a bit too long at the end...



jani said:


> WHAT!?!??!


Please repeat that a few dozen times, tonic dominant tonic dominant etc. etc. Thanks! Now I feel better!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> This is unacceptable.


Agreed. More like all of them. lol


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

violadude said:


> This is unacceptable.


When you listen to Mahler Symphonies, do you always listen to the complete Symphony in one sitting?


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Both Mozart (occasionally) and Schubert (quite a lot), for me, tend to have forms too large for the ideas contained within. I know this creates a more relaxed feel but it just doesn't cut it for me sometimes.

For Mozart, that would be for example symphonies 36,38,41.

For Schubert that would be for example symphony 8,9 and all the chamber works which are for string quartet or similar.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

tdc said:


> When you listen to Mahler Symphonies, do you always listen to the complete Symphony in one sitting?


I always do - for Mahler perhaps more than anyone else the whole symphonic 'narrative' is of great importance.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

KenOC said:


> Some music is just great, but (as they say) the ending is desired some minutes before it arrives. Any nominees out there?


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

In terms of music that overstays it's welcome, I'd go for the opening part (O Fortuna) of Carmina Burana - it gets everywhere! In another respect, I'd consider the rising trumpet theme in Scriabins' 'Poem of Ecstasy' is overused and outstays it's welcome within that piece.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Agreed. More like all of them. lol


 :scold:


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

tdc said:


> When you listen to Mahler Symphonies, do you always listen to the complete Symphony in one sitting?


Usually I do. But I always have favorite movements that I go back to.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


>


Great piece for when you're high.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

KenOC said:


> Some music is just great, but (as they say) the ending is desired some minutes before it arrives. Any nominees out there?


I agree with Rossini's whimsical quip about the composer who I'm a moron for not liking/understanding/shutting myself off from/being biased towards/whatever:

"Wagner has wonderful moments but dreadful quarters of an hour."

But seriously I don't often listen to sprawling works like the longer Mahler symphonies, or Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony, or Feldman's 80 minute long 1st string quartet. However, I do ocassionally listen to these works when I'm 'in the mood.' What mood you ask? Well, for Mahler it's a 'Mahler mood,' for Messiaen its a 'Messiaen mood' and no prizes for guessing which mood for Feldman!

I agree with Ramako re some of Schubert's chamber works, he does seem to go on and on, go through the motions, in winding some of them up. Eg. the finale of his 2nd piano trio is based on material that he streches too far. Also Brahms in some of his piano trios (but not the 3rd one, which is pretty tight).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Sid James said:


> I agree with Rossini's whimsical quip... "Wagner has wonderful moments but dreadful quarters of an hour."


Rossini doesn't seem to have been a big Wagner fan. Another: "One can't judge Wagner's opera Lohengrin after a first hearing, and I certainly don't intend to hear it a second time."


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Pretty much everything by Philip Glass.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

violadude said:


> Great piece for when you're high.


Even better when you're sober. ^_^


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Even better when you're sober. ^_^


Or better yet when you're drunk. lol


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Or better yet when you're drunk. lol


Nah o3o I like to expose my mind as it normally is to the stimulus of music :3


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sid James said:


> "Wagner has wonderful moments but dreadful quarters of an hour."


We are not amused.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

RichardWagner said:


> We are not amused.


What's up Couchie? Finally fixed your name. lol


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

tdc said:


> When you listen to Mahler Symphonies, do you always listen to the complete Symphony in one sitting?


You always listen through the entirety of Beethoven's 9th?


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## palJacky (Nov 27, 2010)

tdc said:


> When you listen to Mahler Symphonies, do you always listen to the complete Symphony in one sitting?


most of the time. Sometimes I'll start a symphony with a movement or two and finish it at my next listening session, but I won't listen to anything else in between. BTW, this is also true for most anything including opera, including Wagner operas.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> You always listen through the entirety of Beethoven's 9th?


Its not a work I listen to very often...and when I do, I don't always listen all the way through, no. Symphonies like that are generally not my thing. My two favorite composers wrote no symphonies, (come to think of it my 3rd and 4th didn't either).

Bach
Ravel
Debussy
Bartok


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

tdc said:


> Its not a work I listen to very often...and when I do, I don't always listen all the way through, no. Symphonies like that are generally not my thing. My two favorite composers wrote no symphonies, (come to think of it my 3rd and 4th didn't either).
> 
> Bach
> Ravel
> ...


So, Mass in B minor, St. Matthews Passion, Daphnis et Chloe, Jeux, Pelleas et Melisandre, etc, are all chopped liver for you?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

RichardWagner said:


> We are not amused.


Is that the R.W.(Royal "We")?

If so, you can make a Royal Decree banning all criticism of Herr Wagner's music on this forum.

But Rossini's comment would still pass through that net - he said it as a joke (but as with many jokes, they sometimes contain a - painful? - grain of truth).


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> So, Mass in B minor, St. Matthews Passion, Daphnis et Chloe, Jeux, Pelleas et Melisandre, etc, are all chopped liver for you?


I'm not sure I get exactly what you are asking, but I wouldn't say any of those works are very similar to a Beethoven or Mahler Symphony, or Symphonies in the Romantic style that Beethoven kind of paved the way for...and with the longer works like the Mass in B minor and St. Matthews Passion I often do listen to them in chunks.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I could list some works, but I'll refrain out of respect for those who love them.
Some of them are by my favorite composers!


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Okay just listened to a good recording of this piece and didn't think it overstayed its welcome at all. Nevermind!


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

The Taco Bell Cannon. Far to popular for it's actual worth.
Anything by Delius
Anything by Mahler
Most things by Debusy
The Grieg Piano Concerto
for those unfamiliar with American cuisine, Taco Bell is a chain of americanized mexican food outlets. It's hard to call them restaurants. Think McDonalds with a Mexican accent. It is too bland to be really Mexican and to spicy to be really American. 
Anyway, Taco Bell is a play on Pachelbel. Get it? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Say no more?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

tdc said:


> I'm not sure I get exactly what you are asking, but I wouldn't say any of those works are very similar to a Beethoven or Mahler Symphony, or Symphonies in the Romantic style that Beethoven kind of paved the way for...and with the longer works like the Mass in B minor and St. Matthews Passion I often do listen to them in chunks.


For the record I am not suggesting in anyway that St. Matthews Passion or the Mass in B minor overstay their welcome. On the contrary I think they are among the greatest of compositions. (When I read in another thread PetrB's comments about Bach's music being like a crossword puzzle, I wonder if he has ever actually bothered listening to these particular works... I could see someone getting that impression about some of Bach's solo instrument works at times, perhaps even some Concertos but not in these works - which are widely considered his two greatest masterpieces).


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)




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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Bach's Goldberg Variations with all the repeats observed.
Schubert's Impromptus.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

As much as I love Schubert's late string quartets and his string quintet, I find them too repetitive at times, which apart from being a tad annoying it also somewhat reduces the beauty of the melodies and themes.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto comes to mind. It seems like the Romantic Composers in general tend to go too long.


I disagree with your assessment on the era as a whole, but emphatically agree about this piece in particular.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Sonata said:


> I disagree with your assessment on the era as a whole, but emphatically agree about this piece in particular.


The pieces in this Era are probably twice as long as any other Era. There are really high points of the Romantic Era but the low points can bore you to sleep. And obviously, we will disagree what those low points are.  Maybe someday I'll warm up more to the Romantic Era but not at the moment.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Well, I like the Romantic era quite a lot, but on more thinking I guess I don't really disagree. Not every piece, but there are many. There are some chamber pieces that go on for 40-50 minutes when I think 25 minutes would be perfect.


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

Much of the late-romantic music.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Chrythes said:


> As much as I love Schubert's late string quartets and his string quintet, I find them too repetitive at times, which apart from being a tad annoying it also somewhat reduces the beauty of the melodies and themes.


The repeat of the exposition in the first movement of the String Quintet is particularly annoying. Fortunately there's freeware you can use to edit the repeat out...


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> The repeat of the exposition in the first movement of the String Quintet is particularly annoying. Fortunately there's freeware you can use to edit the repeat out...


No!!! Don't kill the repeat!!!

Just play a Mozart quintet instead


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