# Women composers



## Hazel

I have tried to give all due credit for the paragraph that I have copied below. If it still offends copyright laws, we can remove it but I felt it worth reading. I suppose, as a woman, I would? 

From booklet included with Hyperion CD "Haydn Piano Trios" Volume 2, The Florestan Trio by Robert Philip, 2009.

"Many outstanding musicians of the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries never performed in public for one simple reason: they were women. Those who composed might or might not have their work preserved, let alone published. Mozart's sister Nannerl, for example, was described as a remarkable pianist and composer but none of her work survivies. Who knows how many gifted women musicians were denied opportunities that their male counterparts enjoyed."


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## Art Rock

Quite worthwhile symphonies from a slightly later time by Alice Mary Smith (1839-1884). Still a time where women composers had little chance to get their works heard.


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## Hazel

I'll have to have that! Thanks.


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## mmsbls

Amy Beach (1867 - 1944), an American, was known mostly as Mrs. H.H.A. Beach. She was a talented pianist, but her husband limited her performances after they were married.

The piano concerto and symphony were written in the late 1890s. I especially like the concerto. She also wrote a piano quintet that is lovely.


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## Delicious Manager

It's a question I have been asked many times: "Why aren't there more woman composers?" My answer is usually along the lines of "Well, until relatively recently, they weren't ALLOWED to be." Although there were some famed women composers and performers in the past (I'm thinking of Barbara Strozzi, Elisabeth-Claude Jacquet de la Guerre, Louise Farrenc and Pauline Viardot-García), they were very much in the minority. Others composed 'on the quiet' (like Fanny Mendelssohn, Amy Beach and Clara Schumann (Wieck)), while others were forced to give-up their composing career either permanently (like Alma Mahler) or with a huge hiatus (like Minna Keal).

Happily, things are different now, although women composers are still viewed by some as something of a curiosity. It is also important that music by women composers wins its place in the repertoire on merit alone and not by way of some phoney 'positive' or 'reverse' discrimination, which only goes to undermine both the composer and her music.


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## jhar26

A big favorite of mine is Louise Farrenc (1804-1875). And she's one of the few female composers of the 19th century who was actually successful. Her works - including the orchestral pieces like her symphonies were performed to critical praise. And this would have been a big achievement even for a male composer in the Paris of that time when opera ruled everything and orchestral concerts were rare. And the few that took place were dominated by the works of Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn. For a French composer to get a symphony performed was virtually mission impossible until Saint-Saéns entered the scene. Farrenc was also a great pianist and in 1842 she was appointed professor of piano at the Paris Conservatory - another amazing achievement for a woman at this time in history.

I've never heard a poor piece from this lady, but if I can choose two favorites they are the Symphony No.2 and the Sextet Op.40 for piano, flute, oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon.


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## Hazel

Haydn wrote piano trios for one of his favourites: Therese Jansen. But, of course, that wasn't her being a composer. Apparently, many such trios were written especially for women to play in the privacy of their own homes. 

Right, Things are different now.


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## Meaghan

I also really like Farrenc. My favorite work I've heard by her is probably the 3rd Symphony. It's very unfortunate that she is so little-known today. Sadly, I think a lot of people don't bother getting to know Farrenc once they hear of her (or a lot of other women composers, for that matter) because they assume that if she hasn't secured a prominent place in history she can't be that good, but that assumption ignores the societal factors influencing who gets recognition.

Another favorite 19th century female composer of mine is Elfrida Andrée (1841-1929, Swedish). I highly recommend her _Fritiof_ Suite (a suite from her opera, which never got performed) and her 1st Swedish Mass. I have friends who speak very highly of her string quartets, though I have yet to become familiar with them. Andrée was also a great organist and composed many works for organ. She and her father won a legal battle to overturn a Swedish law banning women from being church organists.

And anybody know Ethel Smyth's (1858-1944) opera, _The Wreckers_? Kind of an odd opera, but worth a listen--some very beautiful arias, creative use of English folk melodies, and lovers being drowned in caves.


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## mmsbls

jhar26 said:


> I've never heard a poor piece from this lady, but if I can choose two favorites they are the Symphony No.2 and the Sextet Op.40 for piano, flute, oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon.


I just heard the sextet. It's beautiful! Unfortunately the Naxos site does not have recordings of the symphonies so I couldn't hear them, but I certainly want to explore her more!



Meaghan said:


> Another favorite 19th century female composer of mine is Elfrida Andrée (1841-1929, Swedish).


I love Andree's Piano Quintet, but I don't know other works by her.


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## jhar26

mmsbls said:


> I just heard the sextet. It's beautiful! Unfortunately the Naxos site does not have recordings of the symphonies so I couldn't hear them, but I certainly want to explore her more!


Cool, I'm glad you like her music.


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## jhar26

Meaghan said:


> Another favorite 19th century female composer of mine is Elfrida Andrée (1841-1929, Swedish). I highly recommend her _Fritiof_ Suite (a suite from her opera, which never got performed) and her 1st Swedish Mass. I have friends who speak very highly of her string quartets, though I have yet to become familiar with them. Andrée was also a great organist and composed many works for organ. She and her father won a legal battle to overturn a Swedish law banning women from being church organists.
> 
> And anybody know Ethel Smyth's (1858-1944) opera, _The Wreckers_? Kind of an odd opera, but worth a listen--some very beautiful arias, creative use of English folk melodies, and lovers being drowned in caves.


I know about the Ethyl Smyth opera, but I've never heard it myself. Andrée sounds interesting as well. I will check her out.


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## jurianbai

Maddalena Laura Lombardini (1735-1799), is the only female species of 18th composer I can remember now and owned, on a hunt for rarity check his 6 string quartets. Her name known mostly as a recipient of Tartini's long "violin lesson" letter, also known as Madame Syrmen.


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## Il_Penseroso

mmsbls said:


> Amy Beach (1867 - 1944), an American, was known mostly as Mrs. H.H.A. Beach. She was a talented pianist, but her husband limited her performances after they were married.


Her Concert Etude Op.15 No.4 "Fire flies" was a favorite number in late 19th. century and was played by famous Virtuoso Pianists such as Busoni, Rosenthal and Hofmann.


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## StlukesguildOhio

The was Chiara Margarita Cozzolani (1602-c. 1678). I have a disc of hauntingly beautiful music by her. There is even a web site devoted to her here:

http://music.cozzolani.com/

Probably the greatest female composer until the 20th century... end even then... was Hildegard of Bingen (1098 - 17 September 1179)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen


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## Manxfeeder

jhar26 said:


> A big favorite of mine is Louise Farrenc (1804-1875).


Thanks for the intro! I'm listening to her 3rd symphony on YouTube.


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## Il_Penseroso

Cécile Chaminade (8th August 1857 - 18th April 1944) was very famous during her life especially for her ballet music Challirhoe and also her lovely piano pieces.










Her Chansons, sung by Anne Sofie von Otter for Dg :










and Her Piano music:










See also here for her biography.


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## Saturnus

A sad thing about women composers is that not only did the social restrictions hinder them in getting recognized but also hindered them in *getting better*. Being able to spend a lot of time on composing is simply essential for getting better at it, also, knowing that your orchestral pieces will never be performed isn't very motivating. Though the women composers were not behind their male counterparts in amounts of talent their opportunities of developing and growing those talents were never the same and none of them ever reached their full potential.
That's the reason for why they haven't entered the general repertoire. 'The Greats' are exclusively made of composers who devoted many hours a day to composing for the largest parts of their lives. That's no coincidence.


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## Vaneyes

Fanny Mendelssohn (pianist, composer 1805 - 1847) and Clara Schumann (pianist, composer) 1819 - 1896) are well represented on CD. 

During her era, writer George Sand aka Amantine Lucile Aurore Dupin, later Baroness/Baronne Dudevant (1804 - 1876) was respected and openly praised by male colleagues, knowing full well that George Sand was female. As we know now, the George Sand pseudonym was born out of rebellion, not because she couldn't get published as "Lucy" or "Baroness".

I wonder if the so-called discrimination was due more to social class and expectation of motherhood. No doubt, any perceived or otherwise discrimination gave men the expectation/confidence that orchestras could also serve as male clubs.

There's plenty of evidence to show that women who "defiantly" chose to, could succeed on a different path than the one dad or society had mapped out. Easier said than done, certainly.


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## Il_Penseroso

Saturnus said:


> A sad thing about women composers is that not only did the social restrictions hinder them in getting recognized but also hindered them in *getting better*. Being able to spend a lot of time on composing is simply essential for getting better at it, also, knowing that your orchestral pieces will never be performed isn't very motivating. Though the women composers were not behind their male counterparts in amounts of talent their opportunities of developing and growing those talents were never the same and none of them ever reached their full potential.
> That's the reason for why they haven't entered the general repertoire. 'The Greats' are exclusively made of composers who devoted many hours a day to composing for the largest parts of their lives. That's no coincidence.


The same problems were with the women authors as well as women composers. The first time such a masterwork like Pride and prejudice was published , it was written "by a Lady" instead of "Jane Austen" on the cover! and what could one say about the Brontë sisters Charlotte, Emily and Anne ? They published their poems and novels under the pen names Currer, Ellis, and Acton Bell. Currer (Charlotte), Ellis (Emily) and Acton (Anne). Some believe because they were too shy and didn't want to be famous due to their country life and manner but I think it was only to hide their real name, and so their sexuality, probably because of the negative point of view over women authors and poets by most critics of the time ! What a shame !


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## Il_Penseroso

*Hildergard von Bingen* (1098 - 1179) a famous medieval Church woman known also as Saint Hildegard was not only a great philosopher and benedictine but a poet and composer as well. Infact she wrote many liturgical monophonic songs which some have been survived. These songs were probably written for her own nuns to perform on special days. The most important of her works is a sacred drama called *Ordo virtutum* (the fisrt well-known sacred drama) contains a set of songs representing sixteen female virtues and a human soul, plus one speech part for the devil.

A CD has been released by RCA is a good performance of Ordo virtutum by Cologne Sequentia Ensemble for Medieval Music :










Cologne Sequentia Ensemble also has recorded some of her most important songs :










There is also a Deutsche Harmonia Mundi release, which contains some of her songs :










And see also here for more information about her life and works.


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## Hazel

I never realized there were so many women composers. Surely good to learn this. I begin to think women composers were doing better than women poets and authors. Thank you all.


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## Meaghan

Hazel said:


> I never realized there were so many women composers.


Most people don't. There are various encyclopedias of women composers which together, according to one of my professors (a musicologist who focuses on creating editions of works by women composers for publication), contain over 2000 names. But the myth of their being very few, if any, women composers has persisted throughout history until very recently. You have no idea how many reviews you can find, especially from the 19th century, calling various composers "the first woman to write a symphony," "the first female composer of merit," etc., and praising their works for their "surprising virility."


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## Meaghan

Through said professor, I've been introduced to a lot of really terrific works by women, and have felt almost cheated not to have heard of them before. Some of the music is of such high quality that it seems patently obvious to me that the only reason it has not made it into the standard rep is that it was written by women.


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## Hazel

Meaghan said:


> Most people don't. There are various encyclopedias of women composers which together, according to one of my professors (a musicologist who focuses on creating editions of works by women composers for publication), contain over 2000 names. But the myth of their being very few, if any, women composers has persisted throughout history until very recently. You have no idea how many reviews you can find, especially from the 19th century, calling various composers "the first woman to write a symphony," "the first female composer of merit," etc., and praising their works for their "surprising virility."


"Surprising"??? Ha!


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## Ukko

Sofia Gubaidulina Is reasonably well known, and recorded. Her music is 'modern', and I am not, but even so some of the solo piano music works for me.

Nobody has mentioned the American woman who eventually stopped composing to assist her folksinger husband. A powerful (and hard to assimilate) string quartet, among other things.


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## Hazel

Hilltroll72 said:


> Sofia Gubaidulina Is reasonably well known, and recorded. Her music is 'modern', and I am not, but even so some of the solo piano music works for me.
> 
> Nobody has mentioned the American woman who eventually stopped composing to assist her folksinger husband. A powerful (and hard to assimilate) string quartet, among other things.


All right. Who is she? No sense asking "why did she"!

Now I am getting curious. I have a nice set of art history books and I am going to see how many women artists I can find. I do know of a few but not many. An interesting project.


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## Meaghan

Hilltroll72 said:


> Nobody has mentioned the American woman who eventually stopped composing to assist her folksinger husband. A powerful (and hard to assimilate) string quartet, among other things.


Ruth Crawford Seeger


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## Hazel

Oh, Pete Seeger. All right. Thanks.


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## Ukko

Couldn't remember her name for awhile. Here's a youtube link.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcmLTuYRdRA

(Not Pete Seeger's wife)


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## Hazel

Did you know that today is Pete Seeger's 92nd birthday?


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## starthrower

Ellen Taaffe Zwilich is a fine contemporary composer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Taaffe_Zwilich


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## Ukko

Il_Penseroso said:


> Cécile Chaminade (8th August 1857 - 18th April 1944) was very famous during her life especially for her ballet music Challirhoe and also her lovely piano pieces.
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Hamelin recorded a CD of her piano music for Hyperion. It's 'salon' stuff, sort of light duty Faure. Good background music for your drawing room - if you happen to have one.


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## Il_Penseroso

Hilltroll72 said:


> Hamelin recorded a CD of her piano music for Hyperion. It's 'salon' stuff, sort of light duty Faure. Good background music for your drawing room - if you happen to have one.


My favorite number is Etude du concert Op.35 No.2 Automne. I've played it. It's the kind of music so adorable and delightful with some elements maybe in common with Schumann's piano music, i.e. romantic and emotional but not sentimental or something like background music...


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## Oldhoosierdude

No sense starting a new thread. Though this one is quite old.






Alice Smith






Dora Pejacevic

Two symphonies I recently discovered thanks to TC.


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## Vaneyes

'We need more women composers'

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...need-more-women-composers-talent-not-tokenism


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## Bettina

I enjoy listening to music by female composers. It's inspiring, when you think about the obstacles that they had to overcome to do their work. Power to the sisterhood! :lol: Anyway, feminist rant aside, these are some of my favorite female composers:

Elizabeth Jacquet de la Guerre
Clara Schumann
Fanny Mendelssohn
Cecile Chaminade
Amy Beach
Ethel Smyth
Augusta Holmes
Rebecca Clarke


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## Taggart

*A belated premiere for Fanny Mendelssohn*

From today's Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/mendelssohns-sister-finally-has-musical-genius-honoured/


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## DavidA

Hazel said:


> "Many outstanding musicians of the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries never performed in public for one simple reason: they were women. Those who composed might or might not have their work preserved, let alone published. Mozart's sister Nannerl, for example, was described as a remarkable pianist and composer but none of her work survivies. Who knows how many gifted women musicians were denied opportunities that their male counterparts enjoyed."


Philip's point is to me simplistic. The points that to compose music of any stature a thoroughly musical education was needed, something denied to most women of the past, problem even Mozart's own sister. So while it was quite possible for the Brontes and Jane Austin to write outstanding works of literature, it was not possible for a woman to compose (say) a symphony of any stature, not through lack of genius but through lack of training. Of course, today things are very (and rightly) different.


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## sprite

Vítězslava Kaprálová


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