# outliers among your favorites



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm curious - among your favorite works, say your top 100, what are the ones that would surprise people? 

For example, mine would include: 

- Albeniz: Iberia
- Bach: Concerto BWV 1060
- Rebel: Les elemens 

But most people probably wouldn't list those in a top 300, let alone a top 100. 

What would be the surprises on your list?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Alwyn - Harp concerto
Barber - Knoxville summer of 1915
Bax - Symphony 6
Gorecki - Symphony 3
Moeran - Symphony, cello concerto
Raff - Symphony 5
Respighi - Pini di Roma
Suk - Asrael symphony


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## Guest (May 20, 2011)

Hold on here a second, buckaroos!!

Without some little context, these so-called outliers are just pieces.

I could say Kabalevsky's 2nd cello concerto and Sibelius' _Kullervo,_ for instance, but those only would seem like outliers if you knew that some of my other favorites are Luc Ferrari's _Dances Organiques_ and Otomo Yoshihide's _Turntable Music._ And that the latter two are more typical, for me.

So, for me, what do you two favor more typically?

(btw, I haven't heard much of Guy's work, but as I recall, I've liked what I've heard.)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The question (at least as I read it) was not outliers with respect to the rest of your taste (my list is in line with the rest of my taste), but outliers in the sense, as Science put it, "most people probably wouldn't list those in a top 300, let alone a top 100".


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

some guy, get a life? Please? Stop trolling this forum. 

Off the top of my head I can think of a few:
Copland - Piano Variations
Faure - Barcarolle No. 1
Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 7, Op. 10/3
Rautavaara - Piano Concerto No. 1
Schnittke - String Quartet No. 2
Scriabin - Piano Sonata No. 2


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

i guess the biggest surprise is that performances of some of my favorite works are on keyboard/synthesizer, not so much the piece itself


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I suppose that most of my top 100 would be outliners since I prefer some unknown to most of you geezers and their works over piano/chamber works by Brahms, operas by Rossini/Donizetti and symphonic poems by Richard Strauss etc.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Late Schumann piano pieces, Bach organ works, Beethoven Op. 34 and Op. 126 (a masterpiece), some early Richard Strauss... Does the whole of Webern's output count as an outlier?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm not sure all of these would make my top 100, but I'm pretty certain that I like them much more than the average classical listener. The Tallis work did make our top 100 in the "Classical Music Project", but I doubt it would be on many top 100 lists.

Cannabich: Symphony #49
Giannini: Pianio Concerto
Hummel: Piano Concerto No. 3
Schubert: Adagio in E Flat major, D897 "Notturno"
Tallis: Spem in Alium

For a real outlier - 

Gottschalk's version of Mehul's La Chasse Du Jeune Henri for 3 pianos and orchestra


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> I'm curious - among your favorite works, say your top 100, what are the ones that would surprise people?
> For example, mine would include:
> - Alberniz: Iberia
> - Bach: Concerto BWV 1060
> ...


That's _Albeniz_. The recording by Sanchez is in my top 50. So is everything Hamelin has recorded by Alkan.


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## Guest (May 20, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> some guy, get a life? Please? Stop trolling this forum.


My dear Ravellian,

I have a life. It's a very interesting and varied one. It even includes posting to online forums.

I really have to wonder about your life, though, that leads you to question my desire for a little context and even to call it trolling.

A little note. All the bad widdle people who say things you don't wike are not going to go away just because you ask them to.

Kiss kiss,

Michael


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Ravellian said:


> some guy, get a life? Please? Stop trolling this forum.


So making a valid point is trolling in this place.

Outliers are relative to each individual.



mcamacho said:


> i guess the biggest surprise is that performances of some of my favorite works are on keyboard/synthesizer, not so much the piece itself


What would be the names of some of those synthesizer pieces? I can think of quite a few pieces for synths, electric organs and the like that I really like, and I wonder if they're the same as the ones you're talking about. (Generally, I prefer the minimalist side rather than the serialist/IRCAM stuff). In particular, Terry Riley's improvs on a Yamaha YC-45 in the 70's are up among my favourite music.

Here's some music by Daniel Lentz with some nice synth. There's not much of his music floating about on the net but it sounds very influenced by Glass.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

I don't really see what the point of this derailing snippy circlejerk is.

I guess I have none. Everything I appreciate fits somehow in my brain.


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

It's not a valid point. This poster thinks he can just come in any topic and make himself look smart by raising pointless objections when everyone understands the point of the topic already. It's obvious that outliers are relative to the individual. It makes me wonder if he has any friends in real life.. 

I won't make an issue of this though, I'll just ignore his posts from now on.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

some guy said:


> My dear Ravellian,
> 
> I have a life. It's a very interesting and varied one. It even includes posting to online forums.
> 
> ...


Now if that's not trolling, I really don't know what is.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> It's not a valid point. This poster thinks he can just come in any topic and make himself look smart by raising pointless objections when everyone understands the point of the topic already. It's obvious that outliers are relative to the individual. It makes me wonder if he has any friends in real life..
> 
> I won't make an issue of this though, I'll just ignore his posts from now on.


But the idea of just saying pieces doesnt explain why this specific piece would surprise people. like if one says Verdi's Requiem, I cant understand why he chose it, but if he says Verdi's Requiem because I hate all other Verdi's works - that explains it


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The following would all probably rank a lot higher on my personal list, than most universal lists

Rodrigo - solo piano music
Ravel - Piano Trio in A minor
Bartok - Bluebeard's Castle
Liszt - Piano Concerto no. 2
Webern - Six Pieces for Orchestra
Szymanowski - Harnasie
Takemitsu - Spirit Garden
Rachmaninov - Symphonic Dances


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Going with the theme of works I would rate higher than most people would (because most people probably don't know them), as opposed to works that are different from most of what I like:

Smyth - The Wreckers
Tailleferre - Harp Sonata
Saariaho - Six Japanese Gardens
Andree - Fritiof Suite
Ligeti - Six Bagatelles
Corigliano - Clarinet Concerto
Clarke - Three Irish Country Songs
Farrenc - Symphony No. 3


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## Guest (May 20, 2011)

I find myself with Some Guy and Pieck here - I thought it was also meaning an outlier in your own collection, so I thought Some Guy's question (which really didn't look like trolling to me, and seemed like a reasonable enough question) was right on.

I would respond in this way: I heavily favor baroque, classical, and romantic period works. Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, and Brahms are some of my favorite composers. I don't care much for much of the 20th century repertoire, especially the atonal stuff. So the outlier in my collection would be the works of Messiaen - his Quartet for the End of Time, Turangalila symphony, complete organ works, and piano works. They don't fit in with much anything else I life, but somehow I really like them. Very much an outlier when you consider the rest of my collection.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

science said:


> I'm curious - among your favorite works, say your top 100, what are the ones that would surprise people?
> 
> For example, mine would include:
> 
> ...


Probably a few CDs of late 19th/20th century chamber music. Last night I was listening to two string quartets by Ferruccio Busoni (1866-1924), which was not bad. Thinking a little more about this question, these pieces all seem to be chamber music. (I also have lots of other works that are "outliers" with respect to the rest of my collection but are not my favourites).


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

To _Science_ - I thought your premise was clear enough, but apparently not. Care to clarify?


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Well, an answer in Dr. Mike's style:
It's very late right now (04:24) AM 'cause it's Lag Ba'Omer, we did a poike (you probably didnt understand anything ), so what I can think of right now is that:
I like Dido and Aneas although I'm not an opera fan.
I like Allegri's Miserere although not a fan of Renaissance (just because I'm not very fimiliar with it), although I like beautiful music in general 
That't it right now, maybe I'll come up with more tomorrow


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Pardon the long post. I love this sort of thing.

Trying not to come across as a boring list of pieces no one has ever heard of to show off my vast esoteric (but nonetheless uninteresting) knowledge, I still had to consult my musical catalog to come up with works on the fringe. Mostly I'm pretty mainstream, but here's some outlying favorites:

Contemporary composer *J. Brendan Adamson* composed a work called _Juxtaposition in two movements_. It's basically an atonal or quasi-tonal string quartet, but part way through the second movement a rock drum kit kicks in (literally) and it's nearly heart stopping in a good way. It helps to tie the rhythm together and make the near atonality suddenly make sense to those of us raised on Beethoven and The Who. Absolutely top notch work. I think he is currently working with some form of musical robotics. I'm not sure I would appreciate that as much, but I'll reserve judgment.

*Ernst Bloch*, _Concerti Grossi Nos. 1 and 2. _ I just love these two pieces, described by Allmusic as "modern in harmony, and sound, romantic in mood and subjectivity, and classical only as to forms and in the way the piano is treated as a voice emerging from the orchestral group." It's haunting music.

*Emil Frantisek Burian* was an actor, writer, singer, and sometimes composer. I have his _String Quartet No. 4, Op. 95_ composed in 1947. It doesn't sound like anything else I've ever heard. Modern, but accessible - and maybe a little bit naive in a good way.

*Wendy Carlos*, better known as the person who popularized synthesizer and baroque music at the same time, composed a group of microtonal works for the album _Beauty in the Beast._ They range from chilling to profound to (almost) comforting. And they _must_ be performed with electronics. How could an orchestra logistically and artistically play these?

*Lukas Foss*, _American Landscapes for Guitar and Orchestra._ This is a contemporary work I didn't quite grasp at first listen, but it was on a CD someone gifted me. On repeated listens I find it quite a thrilling ride, especially once it hits its stride after a slow start.

*Joseph Martin Kraus*, not all that obscure but not a household name either. He composed right in the middle of the classical period, yet to me his symphonies sound like everything from baroque to more romantic than classical. I think he was way ahead of his time.

*W. A. Mozart*. Outlying? Well, for me he is. It's no secret that I've been having trouble warming to his work for decades, but I go nuts over his _A Musical Joke_, K. 522, perhaps the weirdest most entertaining piece of music from his time period, especially if you can make to the latter half.

*Paderewski's* _Piano Concerto in A_ is full of fantastic melodies and quirky musical adventures. I think he, like Rubinstein, is among the most underrated of romantic composers.

*Franz Schreker's* _Prelude to Memnon_ I have pelted people with before, and I probably will again. This piece takes me away to exotic ancient worlds.

*Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck's* _Variations on "Mein junges Leben hat ein End "_ for me is the archetypal early baroque variation suite. It's counterpoint is riveting, the melody weirdly sad and joyous at the same time. The link is played a little too slowly for my tastes, but the organ stops are tasteful.

*Charles Tournemire*, _Symphony No. 3, "Moscow"_ is among my favorite symphonies of all time, certainly among my top 100 works. I can't remember if it made the TC top 150 or not. I guess it reminds me of an epic movie soundtrack.

*Leo Weiner*, who may not be very well known, wrote one of my all time favorite beautiful pieces, the _Romance for cello, harp, and string orchestra, Op. 29_ Let's say he knows how to manipulate the heart strings.

Hmmm. I keep hitting mostly the same guy's YouTube channel over and over. I wonder who it could possibly be with such similar tastes. :angel:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> To _Science_ - I thought your premise was clear enough, but apparently not. Care to clarify?


I can see how my post was misunderstood, especially as the thread title itself is completely ambiguous (that was unintentional, just careless and inexcusable, mea culpa mea maxima culpa) - though I also feel that the content of the first post was just about clear enough to let someone figure out that I meant something like "works you like much, much more than most people evidently do." It's not something that I want to fight about though, especially if not fighting about it will disappoint some of the people who've complained about the ambiguity.

Some posters, such as Art Rock, took it in a different sense than I meant, but his list was very interesting to me, so I genuinely don't care much either way, as long as I'm learning something. I'm not the legalistic sort. As usual my primary goal was to help me prioritize my listening, learning, and purchasing.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

???
My list is exactly along the lines you want - works I love very much that most people would not list amongst their top favourites.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> ???
> My list is exactly along the lines you want - works I love very much that most people would not list amongst their top favourites.


Yes, you're right! My bad!

I must have mixed you up with someone else, or something.

I may be losing my mind.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Here are a few pieces I can think of that will likely fit the criteria

Overture to Gwendoline, Emmanuel Chabrier. Most people haven't even heard this work, but I bet it would make lists if it was better known.

Suit Pastorale, Emmanuel Chabrier. 

Largetto for Horn and Orchestra, Chabrier.

I'm a little too proud of my Chabrier appreciation, you can count on me mentioning him where he hasn't been mentioned before. 

Muzio Clementi-Symphony op. 18 number two in D major. This is a surprisingly rich and fun piece, very forward looking for the 1780s, very much a worth predecessor to Beethoven.

Franz Joseph Haydn-Symphony no. 51. Who in has heard of that symphony? It has a fantastic theme in the first movement, very rich and well constructed minor key contrast. The second movement is an oddball with low/high horn parts. The Minuet has one of the most warm trios I've heard of Haydn. And the finale is pretty dainty at first, but gets really sturm and drang for a brief episode, then coming back with more force. I haven't even been able to find this symphony on youtube.

W.F. Bach Adagio and Fugue for Orchestra(Sinfonia). Very unique piece, very haunting and simple adagio in D minor, breaks out into a wild fugue on drugs in the same key. It just has personality like no one else. W.F. Bach was a strong musical personality, and in this piece it shows fully. 

CPE Bach, first of the Hamburg symphonies in D major. This is a very unique symphony, it starts with a few violins playing the same note a few times with an irregular rhythm and it uses arpeggios around this note to escalate into a bunch of storm modulation that quickly finds its way to a most exuberant D major full of fluttering flute arpegios. Lots of neat contrast between complex string parts and then simple wind parts with repeating notes and second intervals. It jumps right into the next movement with a beautiful wind drone and pizzicato strings. The finale starts off solid CPE and then he pulls out a few tricks like a lingering rapid lone arpeggio in the violins. 

Most of the music that I most deeply admire aside from these pieces mentioned, will make it into at least a few people's top 100 but these are highly likely not to be in the top several hundred because they may not even be known. Although any CPE enthusiast knows the symphony I mentioned.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

And after having slept on it(I really do have a life for sleeping on a forum question), there is one more piece I'd like to add. A set of pieces actually. The Brahms op. 10 Ballades. Especially when played by Gilels.


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## haydnfan (Apr 13, 2011)

Outliers in terms of my taste: Mozart's operas, Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle because I love those, but not much of an opera fan overall

Outliers in terms of overall taste: JC Bach's concertos, Telemann's violin concertos, some symphonies of Sallinen, Pettersson and Arnold. From saccharine to dark they are personal favorites that are not considered part of the canon.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

clavichorder said:


> And after having slept on it(I really do have a life for sleeping on a forum question), there is one more piece I'd like to add. A set of pieces actually. The Brahms op. 10 Ballades. Especially when played by Gilels.


Love the op. 10 Ballades. I find early Brahms as appealing as late Brahms in most cases, but I've discovered that most pianists seems to only be able to tackle one or the other successfully (Katchen is early, Lupu is late, for example). I haven't spent enough time with Gilels' Brahms but it seems like he can take on practically anything - I love his two concerti. Also, Michelangeli's recordings of the op. 10 and op. 35 Paganini Variations are absolutely incredible! Wish he had recorded more.

I need to hear the three Brahms sonatas some day and revisit the op. 116-9 too.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Air said:


> Love the op. 10 Ballades. I find early Brahms as appealing as late Brahms in most cases, but I've discovered that most pianists seems to only be able to tackle one or the other successfully (Katchen is early, Lupu is late, for example). I haven't spent enough time with Gilels' Brahms but it seems like he can take on practically anything - I love his two concerti. Also, Michelangeli's recordings of the op. 10 and op. 35 Paganini Variations are absolutely incredible! Wish he had recorded more.
> 
> I need to hear the three Brahms sonatas some day and revisit the op. 116-9 too.


There are a _lot_ of recordings of ABM, but many of them were made before 1950. There is a 10 CD set available on the Aura/Documents label - check amazon.com.

I like Katchen's late Brahms; it's different from Lupu's but valid. For a _really_ different approach, check out Backhaus.


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## Guest (May 21, 2011)

Give Richter a try with one and two.

And Grimaud for three.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Hilltroll72 said:


> There are a _lot_ of recordings of ABM, but many of them were made before 1950. There is a 10 CD set available on the Aura/Documents label - check amazon.com.


Sorry, I meant in Brahms - Michelangeli only recorded the op. 10 and op. 35. I do have one of the Aura boxes you mention, the second one (contains both Brahms pieces, but the Paganini Variations in this set is not his best). ABM is one of my absolute favorite pianists - he's tops for me in Debussy, Ravel, Scarlatti, and a lot of the Romantic repertoire. What frustrates me though is that he was even less of a completist than Richter, having only recorded a few works by many composers he clearly excelled at.

Thanks for the Backhaus recommendation.



some guy said:


> Give Richter a try with one and two.
> 
> And Grimaud for three.


Yes, I will! Thanks.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I'd like to freshly add Ameriques by Edgar Varese to my list. It is stylistically an outlier indeed from my typical tastes, and may be a gateway piece that transforms my initial list to a smaller or lesser extent. 

Almost all the 20th century pieces I really like seem to be outliers, I like quite a few, but it doesn't all connect so well to me, the more I listen, the more intergrated my base of taste will be regarding the 20th century.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Schumann - Violin Concerto and Third Violin Sonata.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Klavierspieler said:


> Schumann - Violin Concerto and Third Violin Sonata.


Maybe I misunderstand the question, I assumed it was outliers from the style of music your tastes typically gravitate towards?


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

This:





And this:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

^Am I correct in assuming that you like requiems?^

You really like the Scrianno sonata? Too avante garde for my tastes I think.


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> ^Am I correct in assuming that you like requiems?^
> 
> You really like the Scrianno sonata? Too avante garde for my tastes I think.


I'm fascinated with Requiems, yes. [EDIT: Or at least, I used to be. Now, I'm a little bit more optimistic and things have changed]. But what a shame Bach never wrote one.

And no, putting the Sciarinno piece there was more of a joke really.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

HerlockSholmes said:


> I'm fascinated with Requiems, yes. What a shame Bach never wrote one.
> 
> And no, putting the Sciarinno piece there was more of a joke really.


Do you like Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem?


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Do you like Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem?


Haven't heard it. Yet.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Maybe I misunderstand the question, I assumed it was outliers from the style of music your tastes typically gravitate towards?


Err... did you read the OP?


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