# Warnings please



## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Just listened to the final movement of Mahler's 6th for the first time, driving. With about 30 seconds left I turned up the volume to the max in order to be able to hear the last few peaceful bars.. only to have my ear drums perforated by a shattering final drum and brass clash. 

Any other similar moments !!!?? (I am aware of Haydns well signposted example !)


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2016)

Just be careful with how loud you want to hear Lulu's last words.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Be aware of the volume level you have your player set at if you decide to listen to the very start of either Prokofiev's 3rd or Khachaturian's 2nd symphony


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

There's a moment in the first movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony that almost killed my ears.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Aside from the Mahler and Tchaikovsky examples mentioned, another one that made me jump on first listen was the sudden crash that begins the middle section of the 2nd movement of Rachmaninov's Symphony No. 2.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Them Russians.... 

A REALLY great example I have of a composer playing a prank on the audience (just like Haydn's practical joke in the Surprise Symphony) is below. Just listen all the way through, a soothing waltz... and it won't matter too much how you're listening to it, headphones or speakers:






:tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I recently played Ton Koopman's Six Trio Sonatas by Bach on organ and wasn't prepared for the intense bass vibrations at moderate volume that nearly shook a mirror off the listening room wall!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Here's some warnings:


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2016)

Warning
No Tonal Centre Ahead.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2016)

Warning
Effort Required


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2016)

Warning
It's NOT more of the Same.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

The opening of Haydn's Creation has an ear splitting moment with the chorus and full orchestra - "And there was light" - it can really catch you out the first time you hear the piece.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Well, in Mahler's first symphony there is this all-decisive moment where the whole orchestra clashes in. For me it is the part I look up, when listening to a new interpretation: do the shivers go down the spine or am I left alone in the cold? Up till now I cling unto Haitink's Concertgebouw & Berlin Philharmonic rendering of Mahler's first, because he is there (with me).


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

You have picked probably the most wonderfully extreme example. I first heard it in probably tenth grade, high up in the second balcony of Symphony Hall in Boston. It was an exhausting work (this was the mid-1960s and it was not widely known), and by the time of the quiet brass chorale at the end, my friend was facing away from the stage and seemed half asleep. I, on the other hand, was watching the orchestra and saw the percussionists tensing up and one raising the cymbals -- so I knew what was coming. Watching my friend propelled toward the ceiling was a priceless moment.


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

juliante said:


> Just listened to the final movement of Mahler's 6th for the first time, driving. With about 30 seconds left I turned up the volume to the max in order to be able to hear the last few peaceful bars.. only to have my ear drums perforated by a shattering final drum and brass clash.
> 
> Any other similar moments !!!?? (I am aware of Haydns well signposted example !)


Never listen to Mahler while driving... I find the only music you can listen to and enjoy while driving is Baroque. Especially when driving on the highway... (solo piano is completely out of the question).

But cheers for listening to Mahler's 6th for the first time...


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## rspader (May 14, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> Here's some warnings:


Where I grew up, High Surf was not cause for a warning but rather a reason to skip school and hit the beach.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Them Russians....
> 
> A REALLY great example I have of a composer playing a prank on the audience (just like Haydn's practical joke in the Surprise Symphony) is below. Just listen all the way through, a soothing waltz... and it won't matter too much how you're listening to it, headphones or speakers:
> 
> ...


I for one am glad we had a heads up first!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I was startled the first few times I heard Howard Hanson's "Beowulf's Lament." We get 13 seconds of what sounds like a pleasant barcarole before being slammed with an orchestral power chord.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Have a try on some contemporary/modern works? They just killed my ears.
Kurtag: grabstein fur stephan
Ligeti: atmospheres
Boulez: Le marteau sans maitre


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Bruckner Anton said:


> Have a try on some contemporary/modern works? They just killed my ears.
> Kurtag: grabstein fur stephan
> Ligeti: atmospheres
> Boulez: Le marteau sans maitre


You may have misunderstood the point of the thread.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

juliante said:


> Just listened to the final movement of Mahler's 6th for the first time, driving. With about 30 seconds left I turned up the volume to the max in order to be able to hear the last few peaceful bars.. only to have my ear drums perforated by a shattering final drum and brass clash.
> 
> Any other similar moments !!!?? (I am aware of Haydns well signposted example !)


Never turn up the volume whilst driving!:tiphat:


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

DiesIraeCX said:


> You may have misunderstood the point of the thread.


You are right. Thanks for your reminder :tiphat:


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Dynamic range compressor is a must. If the compressor is something fantastic like Bombardier, you can make it compress the dynamic range in just the right way to make the music sound like nothing changed except the loud parts aren't quite as loud and you can hear the soft parts better. I can't think of a better invention.


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## Johnhanks (Feb 21, 2016)

Hovhaness's Mount St Helens Symphony. The title alone should be warning enough, but don't let yourself be lulled too far by the tranquil music preceding the "eruption". (And for your speakers' sake don't turn the volume up to savour the tranquility.)


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Going back to Mahler, if you're not familiar with the 2nd symphony then beware the massive fortissitissimo entry of the whole orchestra at the very start of the 5th movement. After the beauty and gentleness of the 'Urlicht' movement before, it can be a real shock.
On a different tack, the 4th sy,phony of Giya Kancheli has extremes of very soft and explosive loud passges; in fact iirc, one recording even had a warning on the CD cover about these dynamic extremes.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Now you know why I stick to Mozart - no ear damage here.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Chordalrock said:


> Dynamic range compressor is a must. If the compressor is something fantastic like Bombardier, you can make it compress the dynamic range in just the right way to make the music sound like nothing changed except the loud parts aren't quite as loud and you can hear the soft parts better. I can't think of a better invention.


I am personally aghast that someone would suggest using compression with classical music! (No offense. )


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

MarkW said:


> I am personally aghast that someone would suggest using compression with classical music! (No offense. )


If musicians didn't habitually and apparently without awareness play fortes as fortissimos and pianos as ppp, I might sympathise with your position. I'm more aghast than you are that people don't put effort into fixing this sort of thing, that they're seemingly as comfortable with it as pigs lying in mud. I don't see why anyone would want to listen to music without hearing it properly, or music that is too loud. If I hadn't found a good compressor, I probably wouldn't listen to classical music anymore beyond early music.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Most classical music was not composed with car engines or even refrigerators and washers and dryers and neighbors mowing the lawn in mind. There are times I can't hear it even with headphones. (Not my noise cancelling ones though! They work great)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Weston said:


> Most classical music was not composed with car engines or even refrigerators and washers and dryers and neighbors mowing the lawn in mind. There are times I can't hear it even with headphones. (Not my noise cancelling ones though! They work great)


I hear you! Whenever I start listening to CM, my wife turns up the TV volume in an adjoining room, so much, that after a while I just give up.

Good thing she's a great cook!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The problem is, my wife sometimes complains how "loud" my CM is. And she will not believe me when I try to explain that every measure of her ultra-compressed Josh Grobin album is as loud or louder to the brain than any of even the (infrequent) loudest measures of any CM I play.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

juliante said:


> Just listened to the final movement of Mahler's 6th for the first time, driving. With about 30 seconds left I turned up the volume to the max in order to be able to hear the last few peaceful bars.. only to have my ear drums perforated by a shattering final drum and brass clash.
> 
> Any other similar moments !!!?? (I am aware of Haydns well signposted example !)


That happened the first time i ever listened to M-6. Wonder if it knocked the original concert goers out of their chairs.


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## JEC (Mar 11, 2015)

Same thing happened to me - Verdi's overture to Nabucco. It comes CRASHING in after a few seconds of soft music. I had to change my underwear afterwards.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Chordalrock said:


> Dynamic range compressor is a must. If the compressor is something fantastic like Bombardier, you can make it compress the dynamic range in just the right way to make the music sound like nothing changed except the loud parts aren't quite as loud and you can hear the soft parts better. I can't think of a better invention.


Wow, really?? That takes a huge thing out of the whole experience. You are turning cm into the sound of a radio station.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

DeepR said:


> Wow, really?? That takes a huge thing out of the whole experience. You are turning cm into the sound of a radio station.


I don't compress it as much as a radio station, as should have been clear from what I wrote. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has yet provided any evidence that conductors and pianists don't habitually exaggerate dynamic contrasts. Composers rarely write fortissimos or ppp, but that is what you hear all the time in recordings. Sorry, I think you're a little off on this topic.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

After the initial sedate opening minute or two of Szymanowski's "Krol Roger", get ready to hang onto your chair. The beginning of Verdi's "Otello" will shake your walls also if the volume is turned up.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Bl00dy h3ll! Wish someone had mentioned Daphnis and chloe. Ouch!!!!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

The start of the last movement ("Orgie De Brigands") of Harold in Italy shocked me every time I heard it until I had listened at least 50 times!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

juliante said:


> Bl00dy h3ll! Wish someone had mentioned Daphnis and chloe. Ouch!!!!


Perforated eardrums from music is no joke. My sincere regrets to you, the OP -- and hopes for a better future.

I have some hearing loss in the area of 2000-4000Hz, just enough to miss hearing certain consonants sometimes. My audiologist says this area of loss is typical for musicians. For me, playing in high school band and university orchestra, singing in chorus, and listening to music of many different kinds over a lifetime have all contributed. But, I have a piano-related arm injury that has had far more serious consequences.

I'd like to see more compassion on this thread.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I was playing a budget version of Holst's Planets the other week, loudly, in the car. The recording seemed to be getting a little quieter towards the end so I turned it up a tiny bit. When the orchestra hit that last, short note, in unison, it was deafening and I nearly swerved off the A92.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Roger Knox said:


> Perforated eardrums from music is no joke. My sincere regrets to you, the OP -- and hopes for a better future.
> 
> I have some hearing loss in the area of 2000-4000Hz, just enough to miss hearing certain consonants sometimes. My audiologist says this area of loss is typical for musicians. For me, playing in high school band and university orchestra, singing in chorus, and listening to music of many different kinds over a lifetime have all contributed. But, I have a piano-related arm injury that has had far more serious consequences.
> 
> I'd like to see more compassion on this thread.


Details please í ½í¹‚


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Towards the end of Schoenberg's violin concerto there is an almighty crash as the orchestra comes back just after the solo - years later I still brace myself for it.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

I got the same feeling the first time I listened to Gould's Goldberg Variations. You start by thinking your listening to just beautiful piano music then all of a sudden *WHAM!!!!!*


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

juliante said:


> Details please ������


I won't be supplying personal details about my arm injury. But here's another example of inconsiderate replies to a story concerning musicians' injuries.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/wellness-centre-university-ottawa-musicians-1.5309387


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

techniquest said:


> Be aware of the volume level you have your player set at if you decide to listen to the very start of either Prokofiev's 3rd or Khachaturian's 2nd symphony


Forget about Khachaturian's 2nd symphony; it's his 3rd that is in the danger zone.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

The classic warning is the one Telarc put on their recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture that was recorded with real cannons without a ton of compression. Basically, the work is recorded at a pretty low/quiet level so that when the cannons actually fire, their volume is "realistic" as it would've been hearing them live. If you aren't careful, this is a great way to blow out a speaker or weak subwoofer!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Telarc was notorious for that. I have a CD with the Grofe Grand Canyon suite, in which an alternative movement contains actual thunderstorms recorded at the location. And they are LOUD.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Did nobody mention Stravinsky's Firebird?


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Eduard Strauss, Bahn Frei Polka, op. 45, Telarc, 1985
Another notorious Telarc.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The start of the fourth movement of Mahler’s 1st Symphony. I about jumped out of my skin.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Loud noises can damage tiny hair cells in the inner ear. These hair cells vibrate in response to noise and send a message to the brain. Once destroyed, the cells do not grow back.
Scientists think that damage to these cells causes the brain to misinterpret the signal it receives, so it makes up a sound instead. This is what causes a person to hear ringing in their ears after a concert, even when the room is silent.

MYTH: Noise-induced hearing loss is immediately noticeable – While many people may experience temporary hearing loss after a loud party or concert, a damaged ear may not be immediately noticeable. Often, Noise-Induced Hearing Loss is the result of years of exposure to loud noise, and isn’t noticed until a family member points out common signs of hearing loss.

Headphones might damage your hearing but you won't get to the threshold of initial hearing loss until you're 50 or 55 years of age. Until then your brain will compensate and you won't notice any problems. It's the same with a few sessions of loud music when you're very young. You won't notice it until you're 50 or 55.﻿ That's why I think it's such a danger to young people {who often feel they're invincible anyway}.


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