# Beethoven's late string quartets on period instruments?



## Llyranor

Hi,

I'm looking for recordings of Beethoven's late string quartets (incl. the Grosse Fuge - ESPECIALLY the Grosse Fuge, hehehehe) played with period instruments/HIP. I know Quatuor Mosaiques has recorded some of the earlier ones (I have 2 or 3 of their CD's lying around), but can't seem to find any of the later ones.

Anyone know? Thanks!


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## Ukko

I _should_ know of a set, but there must be a clog in that memory connection. Anyway, I wanted to _suggest_ that by the time of those late quartets, most professional string players had converted their instruments from Baroque to 'Modern'. So... playing them on Baroque instruments may be at least arguably not HIP.


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## Hausmusik

As far as I know there is no complete HIP cycle, strangely enough! You would think there would be a market for that, instead of the 77th coupling of the two Mendelssohn piano trios in five years. . .

My favorite HIP Beethoven SQ is the Turner Quartet's CD of Op. 59/3 and Op. 74--one of my most-listened-to recordings.

Quatuor Mosaiques have recorded the Opus 18.

The Eroica Quartet on Harmonia Mundi have recorded several, but I don't recommend them.


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## Vaneyes

Smithson SQ, but again, only for Op. 18. FTI, this reissue is available inexpensively at Amazon Marketplace.


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## Brahmatist

Please no. Granted, I have not heard a period performance of these gems, but I can't imagine they could improve on the Alban Berg Quartet's 1985 recording. Is it possible to improve on perfection?

The problem with the late quartets is that at the time of their publication they were ahead of their time not only in their content but, it is fair to say, beyond the abilities of the the day's performers and their instruments to do them justice.

I have never heard a period performance of any piece that did not sound better on modern instruments.


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## worov

Brahmatist said:


> I have never heard a period performance of any piece that did not sound better on modern instruments.


I agree in the case of Beethoven. In baroque repertoire, I prefer HIP. I could never listen to Bach's Matthäus Passion with a modern orchestra.


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## Downbeat

To my ears these are so forward-looking that they sound perfectly valid on modern instruments. I can hear the the strains of the middle slow movement to the opus 132 quartet in Mahler's 9th and Wagner's Lohengrin...Beethoven was a real master of tension and release...just a thought.


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## Guest

I hope never to hear the Grosse Fugue or any Beethoven on period instruments. Besides, if that piece were properly played, it would destroy those flimsy-*** period instruments!


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## Josquin13

Over the past few years, I've begun to explore Beethoven's early, middle, and late String Quartets on period instruments. Here's what I've liked so far (with asterisks * placed by those recordings that are special favorites):

I. Early String Quartets--Op. 18, 1-6

*Schuppanzigh Quartett--Op. 18/4--in my opinion, this is one of the finest string quartets today, period or otherwise (along with the Chiaroscuro SQ.):














*Quatour Mosaïques (1-6):





Quatour Turner (1-6):





II. Middle Quartets--Rasumovsky Quartets Op. 59 nos. 1-3, Op. 74 "Harp", and Op. 95

*Schuppanzigh Quartett--Op. 59/No.3--another remarkable performance from this brilliant quartet:





*Chiaroscuro Quartet--Op. 95

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-St...2294464&sr=1-1&keywords=Chiaroscuro+beethoven

Quatour Turner--Opp. 59 1-3, Op. 74 "Harp" (period)
Kuijken Quartet--Opp. 59 1-3 (period)--EDIT: A correction--On re-listening to these discs today, I find the performances are actually on modern instruments--surprisingly; yet the Kuijkens, who are normally a period group, are decidedly HIP in their scale & approach, which is what fooled me. Fine performances, nevertheless.

III. Late Quartets--Opp. 127, 130, 131, 132, Grosse Fuge 133, 135

Other than the Eroica Quartet in Op. 135 (which I don't recommend), there aren't many other period groups that have recorded Beethoven's late quartets. Though I've recently ordered the new Quatour Mosaïques set, which should be arriving soon--has anyone heard and liked (or disliked) this set?:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-La...512294611&sr=1-1&keywords=mosaiques+beethoven

There's also a very fine recording of Opp. 130 & 133 on period instruments from the *Edding Quartet:






https://www.amazon.com/Ludwig-van-B...4794&sr=1-1&keywords=edding+quartet+beethoven

And, a Op. 132 from Quatour Terpsychordes:


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## tortkis

Josquin13 said:


> III. Late Quartets--Opp. 127, 130, 131, 132, Grosse Fuge 133, 135
> 
> Other than the Eroica Quartet in Op. 135 (which I don't recommend), there aren't many other period groups that have recorded Beethoven's late quartets. Though I've recently ordered the new Quatour Mosaïques set, which should be arriving soon--has anyone heard and liked (or disliked) this set?:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-La...512294611&sr=1-1&keywords=mosaiques+beethoven


Thank you, I didn't know about this release. I immediately purchased the album download after reading this post. I don't have many other recordings of Beethoven SQs, but Quatuor Mosaïques is my favorite so far. Clear, graceful, and lively. I think their rendition is very lyrical. I am looking forward to their recording of the middle string quartets.


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## Merl

I didn't think I'd like Quatuor Mosaiques' accounts of the String Quartets, fearing they may be scrawny and weak, but they are very strong performances and beautifully recorded. They wont displace Quartetto Italiano and Vegh, for me, but there's no doubt they're impressive.


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## Quartetfore

Merl said:


> I didn't think I'd like Quatuor Mosaiques' accounts of the String Quartets, fearing they may be scrawny and weak, but they are very strong performances and beautifully recorded. They wont displace Quartetto Italiano and Vegh, for me, but there's no doubt they're impressive.


I have the Quartetto Italiano set, and think of of it as my reference set. Compared to other recordings of the music, they might be a bit slower in some of the works. For a more modern recording (sound) I would still go for the Takacs set. I will say that the Beethoven Quartets seem to bring out the best in any group that record them.


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## Heliogabo

I’ve heard the New Mosaique ser on spotify, and wow, ordered inmediately. 
They’re so interesting renditions, strong performances and full of details and nuances that turns this eternal pieces new.
Highly recomended .


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## Josquin13

Since I wrote my post above at the end of 2017, the Eybler Quartet has made new period recordings of the Op. 18 nos. 1-6 set. Interestingly, they took Beethoven's 1818 metronome suggestions seriously. I've not heard the recordings myself. They plan to record the complete cycle for the Coro label.






https://galleryplayers.ca/shop/music





In addition, Cuarteto Casals has recorded a new cycle, which is now finished, using period bows on modern strings. What I've heard so far from this cycle has been excellent.


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## DavidA

The late quartets were modern not just for 1826 but for 1926 so period instruments appears rather pointless.


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## Bulldog

DavidA said:


> The late quartets were modern not just for 1826 but for 1926 so period instruments appears rather pointless.


There is a pont to me, and it's called maximum enjoyment.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

DavidA said:


> The late quartets were modern not just for 1826 but for 1926 so period instruments appears rather pointless.


For real, it's uncanny how anachronistic the late quartets were. That's an understatement - more like downright freaky. He was ahead of not just his own time but the time of tons of composers who came after him. _Große Fugue_ almost sounds like avant-garde jazz or a daring 20th century composition.


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## DavidA

Bulldog said:


> There is a pont to me, and it's called maximum enjoyment.


So how as a Beethoven couldn't hear them?


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## DavidA

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> For real, it's uncanny how anachronistic the late quartets were. That's an understatement - more like downright freaky. He was ahead of not just his own time but the time of tons of composers who came after him. _Große Fugue_ almost sounds like avant-garde jazz or a daring 20th century composition.


I was listening to parts of the Diabelli. Like boogie-woogie


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## Bulldog

DavidA said:


> So how as a Beethoven couldn't hear them?


I'm talking about my ears, not Beethoven's.


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## SanAntone

Bulldog said:


> I'm talking about my ears, not Beethoven's.


While there are many performances of Beethoven, Mozart, and Haydn on modern instruments that are very good, on balance, I almost always prefer a period instrument group doing them. The music just sounds better to me played on gut strings and other period adjustments.

Since reading this thread I found the Mosaïques recording of the Beethoven late quartets and am listening to it: Highly recommended.


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## Scion7

The best. But only the first version recorded in 1969! With the Italiano a close second.


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## Oldhoosierdude

I want it played on instruments, period!


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## DavidA

SanAntone said:


> While there are many performances of Beethoven, Mozart, and Haydn on modern instruments that are very good, on balance, I almost always prefer a period instrument group doing them. The music just sounds better to me played on gut strings and other period adjustments.
> 
> Since reading this thread I found the Mosaïques recording of the Beethoven late quartets and am listening to it: Highly recommended.


I'm never quite sure of this business as regards to strings. Heifetz used gut strings. Does that make him HIP?


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