# Four Last Songs recommendations?



## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Must listen. Whom do you like, _and why?_ I'm interested in the "why."

Thanks folks!


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## SerbenthumInDerMusik (Nov 9, 2012)

My favorites:

Janowitz/Karajan. Usually regarded as the best recording of Letzte Lieder ever. Nothing else to say, I can only spoil it for you.









Norman/Masur. Enormous soaring voice perfect for the immensity of Strauss' vision here. 
Schwarzkopf/Szell. I'm not a fan of Schwarzkopf's voice, but here it works out well, probably because the tired, ragged quality of it suggests the mood of repose and sunset behind the pieces, going to sleep...
Popp/Tennstedt. Cannot go wrong with Miss Poppova. 

Standard operatic sopranos like Dame Kiri, L.Price, Caballe ... can't seem to do these pieces justice, for various reasons. 
Lisa della Casa has an old recording which is sometimes exquisite, but the sound quality is low and her voice overall too thin. Definitely worth a listen though.

Haven't heard: Flagstad, Mattila.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I see that we are overwhelmed with Strauss fans here.
I do not disagree with Serbenthum's assessment of the Janowitz/Karajan recording,it is really unrivalled as an orchestral performance and vocally too.
Vier Letze Lieder is the last will and testament of one of the supreme lieder composers written in his 83/84 th years.
You should undoubtedly own more than one version of the work and this is where I differ.
The cycles's first conductor was Furtwaengler with Kirsten Flagstad,the venue was London's Royal Albert Hall and the date May 22nd,1950.Flagstad was 55 at the time and in wonderful vocal form. It was recorded live and issued by Cetra and is available on CD,it is a must but allowance has to be made for the age of the recording.
The first commercial recording was Lisa Della Casa's with the VPO/Boehm 1953. This is the version from which a whole generation learned to love the work. I hear none of the criticisms that Serbenthum lists ,I have the LP but it is now on CD with Strauss operatic items, It is a moving experience from a famous Straussian and is sung with a silver purity of tone.
Other performances that should be heard are
Sena Jurinac/Stokholm Phil./Fritz Busch,1951,live. One of the greatest Strauss--Mozart sopranos and a very fine conductor who was a close acquaintance of Strauss. Her voice is silver and gold and her interpretation is among the most touching.
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Berlin Radio S.O./Szell. 1965. This recording has been widely praised and regarded as almost holy writ in some quarters. But some, as always with this artist,hurl accusations of overstylization and refinement.I am not a Schwarzkopf fan but on this occasion do not see such strictures as valid ,I find her magnificent and Szell's support fine-grained in every detail.
Teresa Stich-Randall/Vienna Radio Orch./Somogy. One of my favourites from a famous Sophie in "Rosenkavalier", unfortunately this is a Westminter issue and not presently available.
Kiri Te Kanawa/LSO/Davis,1979.Lyrical sweetness,unmannered phrasing and enunciation and unassailable technical security plus full-throated ease. The LSO is on top form.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Jessye. The sentiments conveyed by that voice add a sort of Amazonian significance to the lyrics. Valhalla next stop, no whitewash required.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I like the Janowitz/Karajan the best; I "imprinted" on it.

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I also enjoyed seeing Renée Fleming sing them on PBS. I really enjoyed seeing the emotion on her face. I have this on CD as well, and Elizabeth Schwarzkopf/Szell.


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## SerbenthumInDerMusik (Nov 9, 2012)

moody said:


> The cycles's first conductor was Furtwaengler with Kirsten Flagstad,the venue was London's Royal Albert Hall and the date May 22nd,1950.Flagstad was 55 at the time and in wonderful vocal form. It was recorded live and issued by Cetra and is available on CD,it is a must but allowance has to be made for the age of the recording.


There are some scratchy uploads on Youtube which claim to be this premiere recording. Flagstad is in great form, but the sound quality is just regrettable. 

Actually I'd retract my criticism of Della Casa recording. It's up there with the best and Lisa is of course a great Straussian.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I first heard the Elisabeth Schwarzkopf one, which is great, but the one I keep coming back to is the Eva Marton Lp I suppose I just connect with her voice more.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Janowitz / Karajan. Superbly sung and conducted.
Also have Schwarzkopf's early reading with HvK which wasn't released at time. Also Della casa / bohm which has historical authority but always strikes me as being too fast. Wonderful singing though.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

A question about Schwarzkopf's recording of the VLL with Szell -

This has been issued by EMI/Warner several times, with different transfers.

The first one, 1985:









GROC version, 1997:









and the most recent Masters incarnation, 2011:









Does anyone have an opinion about which transfer sounds best? I'm not a big fan, but I'm a firm believer that one should have recordings that one doesn't like in the best possible sound. :devil:


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Isn't the 2011 issue the same 1997 remaster? I believe it is. Although there was a Japanese issue out in 2011 on Hybrid SACD, as well, which has to be DSD, doesn't it? So there may be a DSD remaster on CD too, but I'm not sure about that. If so, that's the one I'd go for, personally (assuming you don't want to splurge for the Hybrid SACD). Here are several Japanese issues to sample & compare, sound-wise:

2011 Japanese Hybrid SACD:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/R・シュトラウス-4...9300&sr=8-35&keywords=strauss+four+last+songs

2011 Japanese CD release:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/R-シュトラウス-4...9300&sr=8-27&keywords=strauss+four+last+songs

2014 Japanese CD release:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/R-シュトラウス-歌..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=S66RAQXDB449F62G8QE4

There's also a more recent 2015 Japanese CD release, but it uses the 1997 remaster. So the Japanese CDs may all be the 1997 remaster, except for the hybrid SACD, which is surely DSD? Which begs the question: Is there any sound difference between the DSD hybrid SACD and the 1997 remaster on CD? Or, do any of the several Japanese CDs (issued in 2011 & after), or any of the American or UK CD issues from the same time period, use the DSD remaster that was the basis for the 2011 Japanese hybrid SACD?

Unfortunately, I can't answer these questions, sorry.

To complicate matters even further, I remember once comparing the 1997 remaster to the 1985 CD and being unsure whether it really did represent an improvement, sound-wise. I recall that I was glad I had both, since I couldn't make up my mind.

You've asked a difficult question to answer, Bill. I hope someone can do better than I have.

P.S. Frustratingly, there's no review posted for the hybrid SACD issue on HR Audio.net (which is unusual), nor in the single layer SACD issue either, but there might be one from the various vendors whose links are provided, if you wish to look through them (I haven't done so):

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=7640#related


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

There's a whole thread already devoted to these wonderful songs, and in it I compared five of my favourite recordings (Schwarzkopf/Szell, Popp/Tennstedt, Janowitz/Karajan, Fleming/Thielemann and Norman, Masur). You can read it here https://www.talkclassical.com/33688-richard-strauss-four-last-10.html#post980552

My only difference in opinion since then would be to place Popp ahead of Janowitz, for paying more attention to the meaning of the songs. Schwarzkopf/Szell remains my favourite though.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> A question about Schwarzkopf's recording of the VLL with Szell -
> 
> This has been issued by EMI/Warner several times, with different transfers.
> 
> ...


There's yet another transfer in Warner's recent Schwarzkopf Recitals box, which reproduces the programming from the original LP, and omits the extra orchestral songs she recorded with the LSO a few years later. I don't know all the transfers, but the first one on EMI, and the most recent are both excellent. Both the LP and CD were always amongst EMI's best sellers.

Unlike you, Schwarzkopf/Szell remains my favourite version. So many singers simply bask in the beauty of the music and the vocal line, whilst paying too little heed to the meaning of the texts. Schwarzkopf's reading reminds me of their deeper meaning.


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

The Four Last Songs are some of my very favourite pieces in all of classical music. I've collected over 40 different recordings on cd over the last few years.

For some reason, I don't connect with the famous Janowitz/Karajan recording. It's beautiful, for sure, but Janowitz' voice is a little too 'instrumental' for me, if that makes sense. I miss a certain connection with the text. In that regard, I very much like the *Schwarzkopf/Szell*, which is more 'relaxed' than the earlier recording with Ackermann, in which Schwarzkopf seems to want to make the most of every single syllable.

*Jessye Norman *reigns supreme in her recording with Masur. The tempo they choose for 'Im Abendrot' is too slow and I miss a certain forward movement in the orchestra, but Norman makes it work, and the phrase "so tief im Abendrot" at the climax of the song is simply the most gorgeous thing I have ever heard. Goosebumps every time.

Her voice is fresher in the earlier recording with Andrew Davis, but to my ears, *Kiri Te Kanawa *is better served by Solti in her second recording. The text comes across better, and I love Solti's way with the orchestra. The brass section especially sounds better than in many other performances.

*Renée Fleming *being one of my favourite singers, I have to sing her praises here. The Thielemann recording is the one to have. As with Te Kanawa, she sounds more involved, and I prefer Thielemann over Eschenbach by a lot.

I've recently found myself impressed with *Anja Harteros*, live with Jansons and the BRSO, I like it better than her earlier recording with Fabio Luisi. The vibrato tends to be a little strong here and there, but she scales her voice back appropriately at the right moments.

For a dark horse, listen to *Aga Mikolaj*, who apparently studied with Schwarzkopf. Beautiful voice that soars in the big moments.










Whatever you do, stay away from *Anna Netrebko*'s horrible rendition, although Barenboim does wonderful things.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

betterthanfine said:


> The Four Last Songs are some of my very favourite pieces in all of classical music. I've collected over 40 different recordings on cd over the last few years.
> 
> For some reason, I don't connect with the famous Janowitz/Karajan recording. It's beautiful, for sure, but Janowitz' voice is a little too 'instrumental' for me, if that makes sense. I miss a certain connection with the text. In that regard, I very much like the *Schwarzkopf/Szell*, which is more 'relaxed' than the earlier recording with Ackermann, in which Schwarzkopf seems to want to make the most of every single syllable.
> 
> ...


You have similar feelings to mine, except that I find Solti too fast, and Kiri is still a little under-characterised. On the other hand, the stumbling block for me on the Norman recording is Masur's slow speeds. It starts slow and just gets slower.

I listened to the Harteros/Jansons recording only recently, and she sounds a bit effortful to me; also a little unsteady in places. However the orchestral realisation under Jansons is, I think, one of the best I've ever heard.

I don't know the Mikolaj; in fact the name is completely new to me. I will have to seek it out.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

betterthanfine said:


> The Four Last Songs are some of my very favourite pieces in all of classical music. I've collected over 40 different recordings on cd over the last few years.
> 
> For some reason, I don't connect with the famous Janowitz/Karajan recording. It's beautiful, for sure, but Janowitz' voice is a little too 'instrumental' for me, if that makes sense. I miss a certain connection with the text. In that regard, I very much like the *Schwarzkopf/Szell*, which is more 'relaxed' than the earlier recording with Ackermann, in which Schwarzkopf seems to want to make the most of every single syllable.
> 
> ...


Can't really disagree with you on your comments and you are absolutely right about Netrebko. I bought it thinking how bad could it be? Little did I know!!


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

GregMitchell said:


> You have similar feelings to mine, except that I find Solti too fast, and Kiri is still a little under-characterised. On the other hand, the stumbling block for me on the Norman recording is Masur's slow speeds. It starts slow and just gets slower.
> 
> I listened to the Harteros/Jansons recording only recently, and she sounds a bit effortful to me; also a little unsteady in places. However the orchestral realisation under Jansons is, I think, one of the best I've ever heard.
> 
> I don't know the Mikolaj; in fact the name is completely new to me. I will have to seek it out.


Agreed about Harteros, she does sound a little stretched. Her enunciation is better than most though. As a whole, I found the recording a pleasure to listen to, which indeed has a lot to do with Jansons. And yes, Solti is speedy, but not so much as Böhm with Della Casa or Janowski with Isokoski (both recordings I like a lot as well).

Do let me know what you think of Mikolaj, once you've had a chance to listen to it. She's in the Fleming/Te Kanawa field when it comes to voice type and repertoire, but with a slight hint of a slavic accent. I heard her perform with the Concertgebouw last year and was impressed again. The performance that was later released on cd:


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> Can't really disagree with you on your comments and you are absolutely right about Netrebko. I bought it thinking how bad could it be? Little did I know!!


Netrebko should stay far away from the German repertoire, not only is she unidiomatic in the music, but completely unintelligible too!


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## NjaP (Jun 7, 2018)

I really like the Elisabeth Schwarzkopf recording, mostly because it's the only one I've listened to.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

NjaP said:


> I really like the Elisabeth Schwarzkopf recording, mostly because it's the only one I've listened to.


There are three Schwarzkopf commercially issued recordings with Schwarzkopf; the early mono under Ackermann, a live version from the Royal Festival Hall under Karajan and the stereo recording under Szell, of which the Szell would be my preference, and indeed remains my favourite of all recordings of the songs.

That said, there are others which I enjoy, amongst them Norman/Masur, Popp/Tennstedt, Fleming/Thielemann and Janowitz/Karajan. Give them a try.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

Interestingly I find this the weakest of the bunch mentioned....her phrasing is awful especially in the ....freien Flügen schweben...portion of Beim Schlafgehen (few do get it right mind!) ......no finesse when she cuts the note off for her huge gasp of breath and sounds like she is fighting the orchestra and their direction.
fine singer no doubt but this work is too delicate for her I feel....just my opinion...


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> There's a whole thread already devoted to these wonderful songs, and in it I compared five of my favourite recordings (Schwarzkopf/Szell, Popp/Tennstedt, Janowitz/Karajan, Fleming/Thielemann and Norman, Masur). You can read it here https://www.talkclassical.com/33688-richard-strauss-four-last-10.html#post980552
> 
> My only difference in opinion since then would be to place Popp ahead of Janowitz, for paying more attention to the meaning of the songs. Schwarzkopf/Szell remains my favourite though.


I have all these recordings above and from them I would rate the Popp the highest....but I would like to add another and that is Dame Felicity Lott with Neemi Jarvi....

The OP asked more for the why, well, this I can't explain very accurately, but as a Tuba player, breath control is hugely important and that affects how one constructs phrases. For me, as a brass player, I like to tend to hearing the end of phrases being rounded off rather than chopped off (unless the music demands it obviously) and good and great lyrical sopranos do much more of the former.....a little in the Popp recording and massively so in the Lott recording, the orchestra/conductor makes way for the singer to end the phrase musically by holding the orchestra back, for want of a better expression.....the orchestra isn't being subservient to the singer, but rather subservient to both the music and the idea of the music. As I mentioned earlier, listen to the Lott version of ....freien Flügen schweben...in Beim Schlafgehen, and compare, and again neither Schwartkopf (which if memory serves, is brutal) nor the aforementioned Norman recording are musical enough for my tastes.

The orchestration from Strauss here (the whole work), even though comparatively sparse, I think is probably his finest work.
I find the piece intensely emotional given his time of life when he composed it so any approach that is tender and thoughtful is the right way to go for me......some of the recordings I've heard treat it like full tilt Wagner....no no no no........


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ShaunRoche said:


> Interestingly I find this the weakest of the bunch mentioned....her phrasing is awful especially in the ....freien Flügen schweben...portion of Beim Schlafgehen (few do get it right mind!) ......no finesse when she cuts the note off for her huge gasp of breath and sounds like she is fighting the orchestra and their direction.
> fine singer no doubt but this work is too delicate for here I feel....just my opinion...


How strange that you should think so. The Schwarzkopf/Szell (if this is the recording you are talking about) has survived as a classic for over 50 years now and will no doubt survive for another 50. Those who don't like it tend to complain about too much, rather than too little, finesse. When it comes to a proper understanding and appreciation of the text, Schwarzkopf is not the singer to be found wanting.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

Just bought the Aga Mikolaj recording....but my it is soooo sloooow! all of it!
It's a bit grating at first and the last movement, which will stand a bit of speed, is probably the slowest of the lot!...which perversely allows you to enjoy her incredible mellifluous voice that bit longer - she is a fantastic, lyrical singer it has to be said. Probably a slow burner this version!


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

It's been a long time since I have heard that recording Greg - I'll go and have a listen and report back...it's unlike me not to like finesse!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

GregMitchell said:


> How strange that you should think so. The Schwarzkopf/Szell (if this is the recording you are talking about) has survived as a classic for over 50 years now and will no doubt survive for another 50.


Certainly true, but there's nothing strange about a difference of opinion.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

ShaunRoche said:


> Just bought the Aga Mikolaj recording....but my it is soooo sloooow! all of it!
> It's a bit grating at first and the last movement, which will stand a bit of speed, is probably the slowest of the lot!...which perversely allows you to enjoy her incredible mellifluous voice that bit longer - she is a fantastic, lyrical singer it has to be said. Probably a slow burner this version!


Actually, the tempi for this recording are pretty close to the mean. Nothing like, for example, the ridiculous lengths to which Norman and Masur stretch the music.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

Not that anyone is suggesting anything other, but I’m not decrying any of these recordings mentioned, they all have musical and artistic merits, it’s just that I feel some are more appealing than others and I'm definitely enjoying what is an intellectual and enlightening debate on a work that is absolutely central to who I am! Thank you chaps! 

…..I’ve just listened to the Schwartzkopf recording and I find it too pedestrian – She sounds like a cleaning Lady as she goes about her chores at some points, a little bit absent mindedly going through the motions…..I find some of her lack of emphasis on the start of phrases a bit odd for an artist of her quality too, but I understand that artistic styles come and go and this may have been the norm 50 odd years ago?


I realise for comparison that at some point I'll have to go and listen to the Norman recording....oh well... 

As an aside, even though I had said how almost painfully slow the Mikolaji recording was, I’ve just had a look to see how it compares against the other recordings I’ve been listening to timing wise and Im Abendrot in particular….my favourite recording with Felicity Lott/Jarvi comes in at 7’40’’, Lucia Popp/Tennstedt, 8’24’’, Schwartzkopf/Szell 8’26’’ and would you believe, the quickest version is the Mikolaji/Sollak version at 7’33’’!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

ShaunRoche said:


> I realise for comparison that at some point I'll have to go and listen to the Norman recording....oh well...


Be sure to leave yourself plenty of time. Her "Im Abendrot" with Masur runs nearly 10 minutes.



> As an aside, even though I had said how almost painfully slow the Mikolaji recording was, I've just had a look to see how it compares against the other recordings I've been listening to timing wise and Im Abendrot in particular….my favourite recording with Felicity Lott/Jarvi comes in at 7'40'', Lucia Popp/Tennstedt, 8'24'', Schwartzkopf/Szell 8'26'' and would you believe, the quickest version is the Mikolaji/Sollak version at 7'33''!


Perception of "slowness" isn't all about tempo. Some conductors are able to maintain very slow tempi while still maintaining forward movement - Furtwangler, for example. There are others who can't seem to maintain momentum even at moderately slow tempi. The problem I have with Jessye Norman's recording with Masur is that it's both ridiculously slow AND Masur is unable to maintain musical forward motion.

BTW, the fastest "Im Abendrot" I''ve heard is Janowitz's with Haitink, which runs 5:35. That's *too* fast, and for me, it spoils an otherwise excellent performance. Della Casa with Bohm is nearly as fast at 6:00.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

A late composer friend of mine, who knew more about classical music & Strauss than anyone I've ever known, once told me that Andre Previn's timings with Arleen Auger looked about right for this music. (Though, at the time, he hadn't yet heard Auger's recording, he was simply looking at the timings.) He said that the Four Last Songs were often taken too quickly on recordings. 

I find Auger at her best in the 4th song. She was ill at the time, and her performance probably wasn't as good as she could have done several years before--that is, except in the 4th song, which she sings with deep insight:

Auger/Previn/Vienna Philharmonic:

Frühling--3:28
September--4:38
Beim Schlafengehen--5: 28
Im Abendrot--8:22

I agree that Bohm's conducting was frustratingly poor in soprano Lisa Della Casa's Four Last Songs. 6:00 minutes is much too fast in the final song. I haven't heard Haitink's 5:35, but can't imagine what he was thinking.

Elisabeth Schwarzkopf & Elisabeth Söderström are favorites of mine in the 3rd song. & I like Elly Ameling's live recording with Wolfgang Sawallisch, who was so obsessed with Strauss's music throughout his life that he performed every note (or virtually so) in the composer's opus, either by conducting, or on the piano, accompanying singers. I also like the sheer opulence of Jessye Norman's version with Masur and the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, and don't mind how slowly Masur conducts Im Abendrot, which must be the slowest performance on record. As I like having different interpretations of music that I treasure.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> Perception of "slowness" isn't all about tempo. Some conductors are able to maintain very slow tempi while still maintaining forward movement - Furtwangler, for example. There are others who can't seem to maintain momentum even at moderately slow tempi. The problem I have with Jessye Norman's recording with Masur is that it's both ridiculously slow AND Masur is unable to maintain musical forward motion.


How very well put! Yes, I can feel what you say and have never considered that before so I will think more on that in future.

Just returning to the Norman/Masur version and, well, what a revelation! - having just purchased and listened to it Norman/Masur I can say that I am actually very moved by it. It is so alien to what I remember that I can only assume that there must be another Norman version that I have heard as there is no demonstration of that Tutonic Brunhilde that I remember, what with the curt, cut off bumpy phrasing and gasps for air that are definitely absent here.

Sure, Im Abendrot is very, very slow, but it's actually quite langorous and very, very musical, in fact, this movement shows the whole recording up for what it is - very intelligently directed, beautifully performed and well thought out. I understand what you are saying regarding the lack of forward motion, I think the first minute or so (ie up until the chord/phrase resolution) should be driven, but I can see what's happening there after. I suppose taking the movement as an allegory for Death. I understand why it's so, erm, tender....

In addition I am quite taken with the quality and timbre of Her voice, again employing my favourite word and in this case a certainly apt one, as mellifluous it certainly is. Quite why I have been so offended in the past by this recording I certainly cannot imagine, though at least, what a very pleasant surprise it is to have discovered it now: I first heard it about ten years ago so I can only imagine that my tastes have matured somewhat, though no matter how mature, I still can't find room for any of that Wagner nonsense 

I appreciate that no one attacked me here for may have sounded like anti-Norman comments and allowed my the space to waffle - I must have come across as ill-educated and not worth the bother: I will now consider myself none the wiser but at least, better informed…..

I can see I have some work to do here regarding all the other recordings mentioned here and on the other 'who's the Mummy?' thread - not an entirely unpleasant way to fill my time though


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's a fairly comprehensive discography, including timings:

http://www.gopera.com/lieder/recordings/strauss_vll.html


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ShaunRoche said:


> Not that anyone is suggesting anything other, but I'm not decrying any of these recordings mentioned, they all have musical and artistic merits, it's just that I feel some are more appealing than others and I'm definitely enjoying what is an intellectual and enlightening debate on a work that is absolutely central to who I am! Thank you chaps!
> 
> …..I've just listened to the Schwartzkopf recording and I find it too pedestrian - She sounds like a cleaning Lady as she goes about her chores at some points, a little bit absent mindedly going through the motions…..I find some of her lack of emphasis on the start of phrases a bit odd for an artist of her quality too, but I understand that artistic styles come and go and this may have been the norm 50 odd years ago?
> 
> ...


We obviously have diametrically opposed views. Anything _less_ like a cleaning lady than Schwarzkopf I can't imagine.

Though I find Masur for Norman a bit too slow, I don't like overly fast tempos either. Böhm for Della Casa has always seemed too fast for my tastes, as does Solti for Te Kanawa. I also find Karajan too fast in his live recording with Schwarzkopf. By the time he came to record it with Janowitz, he'd slowed down quite a bit, so presumably he thought so too.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Thanks for the list, Bill. It's helpful. I didn't know there was a (presumably) live performance from Janowitz & Celibidache. It's probably a bootleg. I'm curious now if Celi outdoes Masur in the final song (maybe at around 13 minutes?).

As for the list's mistakes, the 15:17 Schwarzkopf timing for September isn't the only misprint. The list also indicates that Karita Mattila & Abbado bring in Im Abendrot at 4:25! I checked, and they bring it in at 8:25:






So, I suspect there may be other misprints ...

The list also doesn't include Elisabeth Söderström's live 1976 version with Antal Dorati. At the time the list was made the Dorati recording was probably sitting neglected in the BBC vaults. I mention the recording because it's a version that has grown on me over time.






Söderström's later 1982 digital version with conductor Richard Armstrong and the Orchestra of the Welsh National Opera was mostly panned by the critics when it came out, and it's been harder to find than her BBC performance. Yet it's actually one of my favorite Four Last Songs, and as I wrote earlier, Söderström is especially committed in Beim Schlafengehen.






It should also be mentioned that these aren't actually Strauss' 4 last songs, since later in November of 1948 Strauss composed a fifth and final song, "Malven" or "Mallows" (a type of flower). Strauss' friend Ernest Roth didn't publish Malven with the other four songs as a unit--as the "Five Last Songs"--so he may not have known about "Malven": which was newly discovered among the belongings & estate of soprano Maria Jeritza, after she passed away in New Jersey in 1982 at the age of 94.

The unpublished score to "Malven" contained a dedication to her from Strauss--"To my beloved Maria, this last rose!" Interestingly, Miss Jeritza also owned an earlier version of the song "September", which was likewise dedicated to her by Strauss. That may suggest the five last songs were connected thematically in Strauss's mind, or at least composed for Miss Jeritza.

I wonder if the 5 songs would have worked together had Strauss orchestrated "Malven"?; though the addition of "Malven" would have made the order of the songs and Strauss's intentions more debatable. I've only ever heard "Malven" sung with piano accompaniment, so presumably Strauss didn't orchestrate it. Given that he lived for almost another year after composing "Malven"--passing away on September 8, 1949, it appears unlikely that he ever intended to orchestrate the song: which suggests that he didn't see "Malven" as part of a unit with the other four, even if the five songs were all composed for Miss Jeritza. Though, of course, it may have been only the publisher Roth, who in the first place saw the four songs as a unit, & not Strauss.










Here is a New York Times article detailing the history of "Malven", Miss Jeritza, Strauss, and the English composer Richard Blackford's role in the discovery of Strauss' last song:

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/09/15/arts/song-by-richard-strauss-discovered.html


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> Here's a fairly comprehensive discography, including timings:
> 
> http://www.gopera.com/lieder/recordings/strauss_vll.html


A lot of more recent recordings are missing though, including Fleming's second (and I think better) version with Thielemann.


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Janowitz / Karajan for me. Sheer beauty of sound.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> We obviously have diametrically opposed views. Anything _less_ like a cleaning lady than Schwarzkopf I can't imagine.




I have seen a few other different Schwarzkopf recordings so I'll look into those too, but on the recording we're talking about, she definitely doesn't sound too committed....what is it that particularly appeals with this version Greg?

I've just bought the Janowitz and Della Casa recordings, so I'll come back with some crack pot views later!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ShaunRoche said:


> I have seen a few other different Schwarzkopf recordings so I'll look into those too, but on the recording we're talking about, she definitely doesn't sound too committed....what is it that particularly appeals with this version Greg?


Just about everything. The autumnal glow of both the orchestra and the recording. Szell's tempi seem absolutely spot on to me. Though spacious, I don't find them in the least bit too slow (and, in any case, they are nowhere near so slow as Masur for Norman). Schwarzkopf's absorption and identification with the text is so complete, so all encompassing, her every utterance so inevitably right that, however much I enjoy other versions, I still hear Schwarzkopf in my mind's ear. Certain phrases in Swhwarzkopf's recording are now so firmly etched into my memory, that they spoil me for all others and Schwarzkopf and Szell seem to be completely at one in their vision. I'll cite a couple of examples, though there are countless more. Schwarzkopf's voicing of the words _langsam tut er die müdgewordenen Augen zu_ in *September*, where Szell matches her tone perfectly in the orchestra. The other is in the final song, *Im Abendrot*. The way Schwarzkopf sings the words _so tief im Abendrot_ has an almost cathartic release, not matched in any of her other recordings (nor by any other soprano), and superbly seconded by the rich carpet of sound Szell provides for her. _Ist dies etwa der Tod_, asks Schwarzkopf/Eichendorff, and as the orchestra creeps in with the quote from *Tod und Verklärung*, one can only assume that it is. For me it is one of the classic discs of all time, and would definitely be one for my desert island.

People hear things differently of course, but what strikes me as odd is your assertion of a lack of commitment. Schwarzkopf has her detractors. Which great artist doesn't? But they usually complain about a lack of spontaneity, of over-inflection of the text, of too much sophistication, and, though Schwarzkopf is one of my very favourite sopranos, I'd have to admit they have a point. I simply cannot understand anyone finding her uncommitted.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Haven't listened to too many recordings but I am fond of one that's not often mentioned: Della Casa/Bohm, but not the studio recording--the live version from 1958 that came as a bonus to the live Keilberth Arabella.









Della Casa and Bohm take it a little more leisurely and dreamily than the studio recording, in very good mono sound. Della Casa often strikes me as the answer to the question, "who do I listen to if I like Schwarzkopf but find her archness and fussiness a touch irritating?"


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

*Jessye and Kurt are the best* (as you have already written)

My second choice: *Edith Mathis!* The Swiss soprano is THE hammer für die Lieder!

View attachment 109160


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## wahidovic (Jan 10, 2019)

moody said:


> I see that we are overwhelmed with Strauss fans here.
> I do not disagree with Serbenthum's assessment of the Janowitz/Karajan recording,it is really unrivalled as an orchestral performance and vocally too.
> Vier Letze Lieder is the last will and testament of one of the supreme lieder composers written in his 83/84 th years.
> You should undoubtedly own more than one version of the work and this is where I differ.
> ...


Yes, this recording was widely praised and considered almost sacrosanct
The media, but why they are accusing them of exaggerating
I do not see why


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wahidovic said:


> Yes, this recording was widely praised and considered almost sacrosanct
> The media, but why they are accusing them of exaggerating
> I do not see why


My reactions to Janowitz/Karajan tend to vary each time I hear it. The orchestral playing is gorgeous and Janowitz's voice has a sort of disembodied beauty which gloriously rides over the orchestral texture. Like many I can just sit back and wallow in the beauty. But that disembodied beauty I talk about is also one of the recording's problems for me. These are not mere vocalises but Lieder, and I feel that the deeper meaning of the songs gets lost. For that I inevitably turn to Schwarzkopf under Szell, another justly famous interpretation, which has stood the test of time. Here we get beauty _and_ truth.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

*My favorite is Netrebko with Barenboim on DG:*


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I listened to both the Schwarzkopf versions, the Della Casa, Norman, Fleming, Janowitz, and my favourite is Schwarzkopf's first version with Ackermann. The music flows better to me and her singing has more variety. Next is probably Janowitz's


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

betterthanfine said:


> For a dark horse, listen to *Aga Mikolaj*, who apparently studied with Schwarzkopf. Beautiful voice that soars in the big moments.


After learning the very sad news of her death from COVID-19 at 50(!) last November, I've come back to this recording a few times. While the orchestra sounds a little pedestrian here and there (at the start of Im Abendrot for instance, which could have been phrased a tad more poetically), I still find a lot to enjoy. Mikolaj is in gorgeous voice and sensitive to the text. I played this cd for a friend of mine, who remarked: "She obviously listened to Schwarzkopf very carefully," not knowing that Mikolaj studied with her between 2001 and 2006. Myself, I actually hear the influence of her teacher more in the rendition of Dove Sono that's also on this disc.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

betterthanfine said:


> After learning the very sad news of her death from COVID-19 at 50(!) last November, I've come back to this recording a few times. While the orchestra sounds a little pedestrian here and there (at the start of Im Abendrot for instance, which could have been phrased a tad more poetically), I still find a lot to enjoy. Mikolaj is in gorgeous voice and sensitive to the text. I played this cd for a friend of mine, who remarked: "She obviously listened to Schwarzkopf very carefully," not knowing that Mikolaj studied with her between 2001 and 2006. Myself, I actually hear the influence of her teacher more in the rendition of Dove Sono that's also on this disc.


I did mention here in:
Roll of Honour


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> I did mention here in:
> Roll of Honour


Yes, I saw that.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Of the more recent recordings of _Vier letzte Lieder_, I have to say that Sandrine Piau is impressive in every way:










In fact, the whole program on this recording is top-notch (Berg and Zemlinsky make great disc mates with Strauss). The conductor Jean-François Verdier and the Orchestre Victor Hugo provide gorgeous accompaniment.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Neo Romanza said:


> Of the more recent recordings of _Vier letzte Lieder_, I have to say that Sandrine Piau is impressive in every way:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, I am going to push the buy button like in a minute, was wandering for weeks .


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

I did like Piau's performance a lot, only I was very disappointed with the recorded sound. It very much favours the voice, and there's a muffled quality to the orchestra, like it's playing in a different hall next door.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Karajan BPO with, ideally Gundula Janowitz. If not, Anna Tomowa-Sintow.

or

Tennstedt LPO with Lucia Popp


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I enjoy a variety of approaches to this most piercingly poignant work, but it's usually Schwarzkopf/Szell that leaves me with the most complete experience—ravishing beauty of tone and achingly poetic inflection of the text, with a feather-light accompaniment that highlights every detail. I also love Norman/Masur's grand style, Popp/Tennstedt's gleaming beauty, Fleming/Eschenbach's golden richness, and whatever you can hear that comes through the wretched sound of the Flagstad/Furtwängler. I don't like the famous Janowitz/Karajan; the accompaniment is ideal and Janowitz has a unique and beautiful tone, but all I hear is some pretty singing, not an interpretation.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I enjoy a variety of approaches to this most piercingly poignant work, but it's usually Schwarzkopf/Szell that leaves me with the most complete experience-ravishing beauty of tone and achingly poetic inflection of the text, with a feather-light accompaniment that highlights every detail. I also love Norman/Masur's grand style, Popp/Tennstedt's gleaming beauty, Fleming/Eschenbach's golden richness, and whatever you can hear that comes through the wretched sound of the Flagstad/Furtwängler. I don't like the famous Janowitz/Karajan; the accompaniment is ideal and Janowitz has a unique and beautiful tone, but all I hear is some pretty singing, not an interpretation.


They are all _famous _not just Karajan (more Karajan bashing? zzzzzz)

One doesn't _interpret_ these songs, they are to be sung. And Janowitz sings like a silver-throated angel. If all you hear is 'pretty singing' then this sort of music is not really for you.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

HenryPenfold said:


> They are all _famous _not just Karajan (more Karajan bashing? zzzzzz)
> 
> One doesn't _interpret_ these songs, they are to be sung. And Janowitz sings like a silver-throated angel. If all you hear is 'pretty singing' then this sort of music is not really for you.


I do have that with Popp, she is the only one who could get me to tears .


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

betterthannnfine said:


> I did like Piau's performance a lot, only I was very disappointed with the recorded sound. It very much favours the voice, and there's a muffled quality to the orchestra, like it's playing in a different hall next door.


I only wonder if she has enough voice for them. I like Piau in Handel, but I'm told the voice is quite small.

Elsa Dreisig has recorded them with piano accompaniment on her album _Morgen_ and I believe an orchestral version is in the pipeline. It's definitely one I'd be interested to hear.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I enjoy a variety of approaches to this most piercingly poignant work, but it's usually Schwarzkopf/Szell that leaves me with the most complete experience-ravishing beauty of tone and achingly poetic inflection of the text, with a feather-light accompaniment that highlights every detail. I also love Norman/Masur's grand style, Popp/Tennstedt's gleaming beauty, Fleming/Eschenbach's golden richness, and whatever you can hear that comes through the wretched sound of the Flagstad/Furtwängler. I don't like the famous Janowitz/Karajan; the accompaniment is ideal and Janowitz has a unique and beautiful tone, but all I hear is some pretty singing, not an interpretation.


I tend to agree with you, except for preferring Fleming's second recording to her first. Schwarzkopf/Szell would be my top choice, with Norman/Masur and Popp/Tennstedt not far behind.

I used to think more highly of the Janowitz/Karajan, but now I find the almost disembodied purity of the singing a bit empty. It's all very beautiful, but does it mean anything? I don't agree with Henry that the songs should just be sung, and not interpreted. After all, these are not just vocalises and Strauss must have chosen the texts for a reason. Schwarzkopf, Norman, Popp and Fleming all in their various ways make us think about the meaning of the texts. Personally, I don't get that same degree of emotional commitment from Janowitz.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I used to think more highly of the Janowitz/Karajan, but now I find the almost disembodied purity of the singing a bit empty. It's all very beautiful, but does it mean anything? I don't agree with Henry that the songs should just be sung, and not interpreted. After all, these are not just vocalises and Strauss must have chosen the texts for a reason. Schwarzkopf, Norman, Popp and Fleming all in their various ways make us think about the meaning of the texts. Personally, I don't get that same degree of emotional commitment from Janowitz.


I never said _just_ sung. I said they are to be sung. Singing must have feeling, emotion and relevance to the words. All of which Janowitz's performance has. In my opinion, to talk of _interpreting_ and 'disembodied purity' is highfalutin. I also think that such views are a barrier to classical music and contributes its decline.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I used to think more highly of the Janowitz/Karajan, but now I find the almost disembodied purity of the singing a bit empty.


Last time I did comparative listening, I preferred HvK's recording with Anna Tomowa-Sintow.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> They are all _famous _not just Karajan (more Karajan bashing? zzzzzz)
> 
> One doesn't _interpret_ these songs, they are to be sung. And Janowitz sings like a silver-throated angel. If all you hear is 'pretty singing' then this sort of music is not really for you.


I have to agree with you about this recording, it is sublime, her soaring high notes are overwhelming.

But it is not my favorite; that would be *Schwarzkopf* (Szell). *Jessye Norman* is also very good. I also have the Renée Fleming recording with Christian Thielemann/Munich and like it a lot.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

SanAntone said:


> I have to agree with you about this recording, it is sublime, her soaring high notes are overwhelming.
> 
> But it is not my favorite; that would be *Schwarzkopf* (Szell). *Jessye Norman* is also very good. I also have the Renée Fleming recording with Christian Thielemann/Munich and like it a lot.


Indeed, overwhelming!

Perhaps I must revisit Schwarzkopf and Norman - they seem highly rated by TC members.

I haven't heard the Fleming/Thielemann. It's gone on my to listen to list!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

HenryPenfold said:


> Indeed, overwhelming!
> 
> Perhaps I must revisit Schwarzkopf and Norman - they seem highly rated by TC members.
> 
> I haven't heard the Fleming/Thielemann. It's gone on my to listen to list!



View attachment 163372


Dutch Masters: Bernard Haitink (Volume 48) (Strauss: Don Quixote, Op. 35 Fantasische Variationen (1977); Vier Letzte Lieder (1968))
This is Janowitz best performance .
alas very expensive


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I only wonder if she has enough voice for them. I like Piau in Handel, but I'm told the voice is quite small.
> 
> Elsa Dreisig has recorded them with piano accompaniment on her album _Morgen_ and I believe an orchestral version is in the pipeline. It's definitely one I'd be interested to hear.


On record, I didn't have issues with the size of her voice. I imagine live would possibly a different matter.

Very much looking forward to Dreisig with orchestra!


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

HenryPenfold said:


> They are all _famous _not just Karajan (more Karajan bashing? zzzzzz)
> 
> One doesn't _interpret_ these songs, they are to be sung. And Janowitz sings like a silver-throated angel. If all you hear is 'pretty singing' then this sort of music is not really for you.


He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing? Janowitz doesn't do much for me either, to be honest. Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

betterthanfine said:


> He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing? Janowitz doesn't do much for me either, to be honest. Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.


I find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything she sings, and that there is no music that someone else can't make more interesting. Its worth something to make the Four Last Songs sound as beautiful as she does, but more is possible. I'll take Schwarzkopf in either of her recordings - the earlier being superior vocally, the latter more detailed in interpretation - and Norman, in one of her finest efforts.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

betterthanfine said:


> He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing?


Dead giveaway - immediately referring to fame when Karajan is involved rather than so many other more relevant aspects.



> Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.


Hatred is a very strong negative emotion and I don't hate, never mind _hate so much_ and I have never used the word in any of my many posts. That aside, I think that virtually anyone could _do better _with any song.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> I never said _just_ sung. I said they are to be sung. Singing must have feeling, emotion and relevance to the words. All of which Janowitz's performance has. In my opinion, to talk of _interpreting_ and 'disembodied purity' is highfalutin. I also think that such views are a barrier to classical music and contributes its decline.


Well that's me put in my place, though I'm afraid I can't quite see how explaining my preferences and impressions of a performance is "highfalutin" and "a barrier to classical music", which is contributing to its decline. Of course the songs are to be sung, but your assertion implies, pardon me if I misunderstand, that interpretation should be avoided; that a singer should just sing the notes, observing expression marks, but not worrying too much about _why_ they are there, or what they might mean. But any performance involves the performer interpreting what is on the printed page and trying to understand the composer's or the writer's intentions. That is why two performances of the same piece can vary so much.

Now when it comes to Janowitz's performance of the Strauss songs, I find I like it less now than I used to do because I don't hear the "feeling, emotion and relevance to the words" you do. For me it is beautiful but marmoreal. A lot of people like marble. Nothing wrong with that. You may disagree with me. We all have different ears after all, but I see nothing wrong with discussing our impressions of different performances or our preferences, and lovers of classical singing will discuss their preferences and impressions of different _interpretations_ ad infinitum. I don't see how doing so contributes to the decline in classical music.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything she sings, and that there is no music that someone else can't make more interesting.


I suppose someone might find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything, even though I might find such an opinion hard to understand. Some may even find they don't care for the superb Martha Mödl, as hard to believe as that may be. This only shows that people can be wrong. Me, I mean.

Its worth something to make the Four Last Songs sound as beautiful as she does, but more is possible.



> I'll take Schwarzkopf in either of her recordings - the earlier being superior vocally, the latter more detailed in interpretation - and Norman, in one of her finest efforts.


Happily, I have the recordings of Schwarkopf and Norman, and along with RogerX's excellent recommendation of Fleming, I shall listen further.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> " ...........I see nothing wrong with discussing our impressions of different performances or our preferences and lovers of classical singing will discuss their preferences and impressions of different _interpretations_ ad infinitum. I don't see how doing so contributes to the decline in classical music."


Agreed, wouldn't deny that. But that's not what I was reacting to. I feel that when we become hifalutin is the problem. All the i_nterpretation_, _achingly poetic_,_ piercingly poignant_ et al is a barrier to the man in the street and gives classical music an elitist feel. This I think is a barrier that may be a reason why we are a declining race ............

Seems to be more of an issue with opera and song, IMVHO.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> Agreed, wouldn't deny that. But that's not what I was reacting to. I feel that when we become hifalutin is the problem. All the i_nterpretation_, _achingly poetic_,_ piercingly poignant_ et al is a barrier to the man in the street and gives classical music an elitist feel. This I think is a barrier that may be a reason why we are a declining race ............
> 
> Seems to be more of an issue with opera and song, IMVHO.


How many "men in the street" visit this forum I wonder?

In any case I've never been a believer in dumbing down. When I was first getting into classical music and opera we didn't have the internet, but I learned a great deal not only from my peers, who clearly had a great deal more knowledge than I had, but by reading magazines like _Opera_ and _Gramophone_ and the now defunct _Records and Recording_. I'm afraid I don't see what is wrong with calling a performance "achingly poetic" or "piercingly poignant" if that is what the writer feels about them.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> How many "men in the street" visit this forum I wonder?


Most of us are 'men in the street' on this forum, I would say.



> In any case I've never been a believer in dumbing down.


What do you see as 'dumbing down'?



> When I was first getting into classical music and opera we didn't have the internet, but I learned a great deal not only from my peers, who clearly had a great deal more knowledge than I had, but by reading magazines like _Opera_ and _Gramophone_ and the now defunct _Records and Recording_.


Pretty similar to my experience, too.



> I'm afraid I don't see what is wrong with calling a performance "achingly poetic" or "piercingly poignant" if that is what the writer feels about them.


I too have no truck with anyone 'feeling that way'


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

HenryPenfold said:


> I never said _just_ sung. I said they are to be sung. Singing must have feeling, emotion and relevance to the words. All of which Janowitz's performance has. In my opinion, to talk of _interpreting_ and 'disembodied purity' is highfalutin. I also think that such views are a barrier to classical music and contributes its decline.


I own that Janowitz/Karajan recording - the accompanying orchestral works on that disc are sublime - and I agree with a lot of the comments. I don't hear any feeling or connection to the music.

In addition to both Schwarzkopfs and Norman/Masur, I also like Della Casa/Böhm and Jurinac/Busch. The Flagstad is tough listening, even for a dedicated Furtwänglerian like me, but musically it is among the best.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Re Janowitz. Sometimes it is enough to have a beautiful voice!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Lucia Popp - Strauss' Vier Letzte Lieder - Im abendrot
My guilty pleasure, I have ones made a tape from these clips.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I also like a version with Margaret Price with Sawallisch at at Rome RAI (not an orchestra I'd immediately associate with Strauss). I've always loved M. Price and her soaring tones suit Strauss's music very well and she as a Lieder singer does not neglect the text.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

As this thread has been amicably running for almost 10 years now I thought I would send out a quick 'Hello' bearing in mind that so much has happened and is continuing to happen in those intervening 10 years, I hope that we and our loved ones are safe and well! Much love to all! xx


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

ShaunRoche said:


> As this thread has been amicably running for almost 10 years now I thought I would send out a quick 'Hello' bearing in mind that so much has happened and is continuing to happen in those intervening 10 years, I hope that we and our loved ones are safe and well! Much love to all! xx


Now that is a nice post, all the best to you and your loved ones.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I don't think about other recordings besides *Janet Baker*.

And this LP with the other works is among my favorites.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> I don't think about other recordings besides *Janet Baker*.
> 
> And this LP with the other works is among my favorites.


The Strauss songs on here are not the _Vier letzte Lieder_. Baker never sang them, because they are for a soprano, and she was very definitely a mezzo. It is a wonderful disc, however, and I think one of the best recordings of the Wagner. The _Alto Rhapsody _is also wonderful.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The Strauss songs on here are not the _Vier letzte Lieder_. Baker never sang them, because they are for a soprano, and she was very definitely a mezzo. It is a wonderful disc, however, and I think one of the best recordings of the Wagner. The _Alto Rhapsody _is also wonderful.


Oops.  Thanks for the correction.

Since I am not a huge R. Strauss fan, but a huge Janet Baker fan, I leaped into the fray before thinking about it. I have heard Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, though, and probably would name that one, although for me it is silly since I hardly know the repertory.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> Oops.  Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Since I am not a huge R. Strauss fan, but a huge Janet Baker fan, I leaped into the fray before thinking about it. I have heard Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, though, and probably would name that one, although for me it is silly since I hardly know the repertory.


Baker and Schwarzkopf are in my top three female singers. The other is Callas, of course. All three, though so different, were artists, whose instrument just happened to be the voice.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I am looking for any thoughts on the recording by Elisabeth Meyer-Topsoe with the Copenhagen SO on the Kontrapunkt label. I cannot find it to try on the either Qobuz or Spotify. I am curious to find out if its worth adding to my collection.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Malx said:


> I am looking for any thoughts on the recording by Elisabeth Meyer-Topsoe with the Copenhagen SO on the Kontrapunkt label. I cannot find it to try on the either Qobuz or Spotify. I am curious to find out if its worth adding to my collection.












WAGNER - Wesendonk Lieder/RICHARD STRAUSS Vier Letzte Lieder - CD - Meyer-Topsoe | eBay


WAGNER - Wesendonk Lieder/RICHARD STRAUSS Vier Letzte Lieder - CD - Meyer-Topsoe | Music, CDs | eBay!



www.ebay.nl




Here you are , no verdict from me, I don´t know the disc.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Rogerx said:


> WAGNER - Wesendonk Lieder/RICHARD STRAUSS Vier Letzte Lieder - CD - Meyer-Topsoe | eBay
> 
> 
> WAGNER - Wesendonk Lieder/RICHARD STRAUSS Vier Letzte Lieder - CD - Meyer-Topsoe | Music, CDs | eBay!
> ...


When the recording was first released, since it was a new artist, I gave it to a new friend who owned many opera recordings. I then found out that he hated Wagner and Strauss! But I liked her voice and her singing…


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

After *Elisabeth Schwarzkopf*; Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra / George Szell and *Jessye Norman*; Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra / Kurt Masur - this 2002 recording is excellent.

*Soile Isokoski; Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra / Marek Janowski *


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> After *Elisabeth Schwarzkopf*; Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra / George Szell and *Jessye Norman*; Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra / Kurt Masur - this 2002 recording is excellent.
> 
> *Soile Isokoski; Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra / Marek Janowski *


I was excited to see this when it was published but found it strangely bland.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> I was excited to see this when it was published but found it strangely bland.


Me too, actually. It had some excellent reviews and I think even won a Gramophone Award, but I didn't find it that special.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Me too, actually. It had some excellent reviews and I think even won a Gramophone Award, but I didn't find it that special.


No, there are too many more worthy. I was also disappointed in the ones by Karita Mattila, Cheryl Studer and Eva Marton. Never cottoned to Fleming at all.


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