# Alan Hovhaness



## handlebar

In my opinion one of the most underrated American composers of the 20th century. 
he was rather prolific having just under 70 symphonies but many are very well worth a listen. Crystal records and Delos are the major CD distributors and if you have not heard his works, give them a try. 
His Symphony #2 is one of the most popular with many recordings out there.

I also moderate a yahoo group dedicated to Hovhaness. Slowly but surely he is getting a bit more attention.

Jim


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## JTech82

handlebar said:


> In my opinion one of the most underrated American composers of the 20th century.
> he was rather prolific having just under 70 symphonies but many are very well worth a listen. Crystal records and Delos are the major CD distributors and if you have not heard his works, give them a try.
> His Symphony #2 is one of the most popular with many recordings out there.
> 
> I also moderate a yahoo group dedicated to Hovhaness. Slowly but surely he is getting a bit more attention.
> 
> Jim


I own around 9 or 10 Hovhaness recordings now. He's a great composer and yes he is underrated. He has a very unique style.

I played Hovhaness for my Grandfather, whom had never heard his music, today and he was blown away. I played him "Mysterious Mountain," which is a standard piece to play to someone unfamiliar with Hovhaness. I played him the version with Fritz Reiner and the CSO.


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## handlebar

The Reiner recording is a standard by which many judge up and comers. Another good recording of that work is the Delos CD with Gerard Schwartz.
Also,along the same vein is the CD on Delos of Symphony #22 and 50.

The Prayer of St Gregory is my favourite Hovhaness piece I would say. And there are too many to name off in that regard. I have all of the CD's in the Crystal catalog as well as most commercially available Hovhaness CD's of all other firms. Even some private recordings.

The man lived until 2000 and gave many interviews in both audio and video format,of which I'm happy to say i own. One of his many dedicated friends is a personal friend of mine,Martin Berkofsky,the pianist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Berkofsky

Jim


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## JTech82

handlebar said:


> The Reiner recording is a standard by which many judge up and comers. Another good recording of that work is the Delos CD with Gerard Schwartz.
> Also,along the same vein is the CD on Delos of Symphony #22 and 50.
> 
> The Prayer of St Gregory is my favourite Hovhaness piece I would say. And there are too many to name off in that regard. I have all of the CD's in the Crystal catalog as well as most commercially available Hovhaness CD's of all other firms. Even some private recordings.
> 
> The man lived until 2000 and gave many interviews in both audio and video format,of which I'm happy to say i own. One of his many dedicated friends is a personal friend of mine,Martin Berkofsky,the pianist.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Berkofsky
> 
> Jim


I have 3 different versions of Mysterious Mountain. One with Reiner and the other two are with Schwarz, and it is Schwarz by the way, on Delos and Telarc.

I especially like the Naxos recordings of Hovhaness.

A great American composer who's potential hasn't yet been fully realized. I mean there are champions of his work like Schwarz, but I would like to hear more of his works being recorded for major labels, which probably won't happen anytime soon.


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## handlebar

Yeah,I added that extra T by mistake in Gerard's name. I need to slow down on my typing!
The major labels have been approached by friends of mine but they just don't want to take risks with it.
Hence the smaller labels like Crystal and Koch,etc.
Peter at crystal (which is only 10 miles from my house here in Vancouver) has done a wonderful service to the world with his work on Hovhaness recordings. The old Poseidon recordings have been released on CD and sound wonderful. Many are conducted by Hovhaness himself.

Here is Martin's site for Hovhaness:

http://cristoforifund.tripod.com/alanhovhaness1.html

A new recording of Janabar, Talin, Shambala is truly spectacular and Lousadzak was just re-released with Keith Jarrett playing the piano part. Great recording.

Jim


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## Weston

Like many people, I was first introduced to Hovhaness via the Carl Sagan _Cosmos_ TV series in the early 1980's. The soundtrack uses an excerpt from the Symphony No. 19. That exceprt is indeed cosmic. I don't currently have this piece but it is on my want list. I would love to hear the whole thing.

I do have the Symphony No. 2 "Mysterious Mountain" conducted by John Williams. Is this a fairly short work for a symphony? There are several other pieces on the album by other composers (I got the disc as an impulse buy actually] and I'm not convinced I have the entire work.

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Concerto-Takemitsu-Hovhaness-Mysterious/dp/B0000029TZ

What is present is riveting.

I also have a Koch recording of three other symphonies that I hardly ever listen to because I feel it does not fully capture the string sonoroities that probably should be there.


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## JTech82

Handlebar,

I have a very broad range of tastes in classical music. What I try to do is get a few recordings by each composer that interests me like Ravel, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Berlioz, Mahler, or Bartok start building from these composers backwards and forwards.

I have 9 Hovhaness discs so far, but I will be acquiring more as time goes on.


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## JoeGreen

I love Hovhaness, his String writing is very lush ( for the most part), and there is something very ethereal about his music.

I thought his *And God Created Great Whales* was very interesting, there is something eerie about whale song, and even though I like the piece I rarely listen to it because i'm, ashamed to say, sort of scared of the whale songs.


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## handlebar

JTech82 said:


> Handlebar,
> 
> I have a very broad range of tastes in classical music. What I try to do is get a few recordings by each composer that interests me like Ravel, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Berlioz, Mahler, or Bartok start building from these composers backwards and forwards.
> 
> I have 9 Hovhaness discs so far, but I will be acquiring more as time goes on.


Glad to hear that! You will enjoy AH even more as time progresses. He has duds like all composers do but i admire most of his works.

Jim


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## Lisztfreak

Hovhaness' music is immobile and opstipatingly boring.

(Whoa, I'm falling under Bach's influence... this was his style.)


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## JTech82

Lisztfreak said:


> Hovhaness' music is immobile and opstipatingly boring.
> 
> (Whoa, I'm falling under Bach's influence... this was his style.)


What have you heard by Hovhaness, Lisztfreak? I'm just curious, because we may very well be listening to two totally different composers.

Hey Jim, I take it Lizstfreak hasn't listened to "Mysterious Mountain" conducted by Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra yet, because if he has, then he wouldn't be calling Hovhaness boring.

Everybody has a right to their own opinions of course, but what I'm interested in finding out what you have heard and what you haven't heard? That's what I would like to know.


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## Lisztfreak

I've heard Symphony No.6, 'Celestial Gate' (I admit the main theme is one of the most beautiful melodies I've heard), Prelude and Quadruple Fugue op.128, Tzaikerk 'Evening Song', Prayer of Saint Gregory, Alleluia and Fugue op.40b and Concerto No.7 op.116 for orchestra.
Played by I Fiamminghi (The Orchestra of Flanders), conducted by Rudolf Werthen, released on Telarc.

The problem is that the music lacks _movement_. It may be ethereal, but it sounds empty because it moves nowehere and gets nowhere. Such are my impressions, perhaps the recordings I've heard aren't good, dunno, but after this one CD I bought, I've lost my interest in Hovhaness.


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## JTech82

Lisztfreak said:


> I've heard Symphony No.6, 'Celestial Gate' (I admit the main theme is one of the most beautiful melodies I've heard), Prelude and Quadruple Fugue op.128, Tzaikerk 'Evening Song', Prayer of Saint Gregory, Alleluia and Fugue op.40b and Concerto No.7 op.116 for orchestra.
> Played by I Fiamminghi (The Orchestra of Flanders), conducted by Rudolf Werthen, released on Telarc.
> 
> The problem is that the music lacks _movement_. It may be ethereal, but it sounds empty because it moves nowehere and gets nowhere. Such are my impressions, perhaps the recordings I've heard aren't good, dunno, but after this one CD I bought, I've lost my interest in Hovhaness.


Sounds like you're suffering from QDS (Quick Dismissal Syndrome). Don't worry I had QDS too, but after years of treatment I'm finally cured. The doctors say I'll doing good now. I can now listen to something with an open-mind without coming to it with pre-conceived notions. Hovhaness' music must be listened to on its own terms, not yours.

You haven't heard Hovhaness until you hear Fritz Reiner and the CSO play "Mysterious Mountain."

Not all music resonates with you at first, in fact, I'll wager that the best music hits you the hardest the second, third, fourth, or even twentieth time. Give things a chance to grow on you. You will be glad you did.


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## Sid James

*Alan Hovhaness *(1911 - 2000) was an American composer of Armenian and Scottish ancestry, but the inspiration for his mature work was as much Eastern as Western.

His music is accessible to the lay listener and often evokes a mood of mystery or contemplation. The Boston Globe music critic Richard Buell wrote: "Although he has been stereotyped as a self-consciously Armenian composer (rather as Ernest Bloch is seen as a Jewish composer), his output assimilates the music of many cultures. What may be most American about all of it is the way it turns its materials into a kind of exoticism. The atmosphere is hushed, reverential, mystical, nostalgic."

He was among the most prolific of 20th century composers, his official catalog comprising 67 numbered symphonies (surviving manuscripts indicate over 70) and 434 opus numbers.[1] [2] However, the true tally is well over 500 surviving works since many opus numbers comprise two or more distinct works.

(From Wikipedia)

I've just got acquainted with some of Hovhaness' music on a Naxos cd. It's interesting music, because he wasn't one for big contrasts or suprises. His music, with influences such as Arabic music, is pretty low key but still seems to make an impact.

What are people's experiences & recommendations about this C20th American composer?


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## Mirror Image

I like Hovhaness' music a lot. I consider his music to be mystical in a way, much like Scriabin's music kind of reaches that other realm of conscience. He's quite remarkable in the way he writes these very sweeping fugues like that heard in "Mysterious Mountains." I'm also fond of his concertos for guitar. I'm not impressed with everything he composed, of course, but his music should be noted for it's directness and lyricism.

It should also be noted that there's still a wealth of compositions that have never been recorded by anyone of Hovhaness' music. Unfortunately, for reasons I don't know, his music isn't very favorable amongst classical elitists.


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## Sid James

I agree, he didn't avoid complex forms like fugues, but in his hands they don't sound heavy like with some other composers. Of course, he was influenced by the old traditions of music, both Western & Eastern, but there is undoubtedly alot of modernity there as well.

I also enjoy his _Guitar Concerto No. 2_, which is on the cd I bought. It's much more understated & far less showy than those by others. It's also interesting that many of the recordings you get of Hovhaness are the only recordings, world premiere recordings. His output was so vast that it's only more recently beginning to be recorded.

I would like to see some of his music peformed live here in Sydney, but that's unlikely to happen. Somehow, more neoromantic composers fall between the gaps of the Romantics and the Moderns, as far as concert programmers are concerned...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I agree, he didn't avoid complex forms like fugues, but in his hands they don't sound heavy like with some other composers. Of course, he was influenced by the old traditions of music, both Western & Eastern, but there is undoubtedly alot of modernity there as well.
> 
> I also enjoy his _Guitar Concerto No. 2_, which is on the cd I bought. It's much more understated & far less showy than those by others. It's also interesting that many of the recordings you get of Hovhaness are the only recordings, world premiere recordings. His output was so vast that it's only more recently beginning to be recorded.
> 
> I would like to see some of his music peformed live here in Sydney, but that's unlikely to happen. Somehow, more neoromantic composers fall between the gaps of the Romantics and the Moderns, as far as concert programmers are concerned...


Yes, I have that recording you're talking about and it's on the Naxos label with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra.

One of the things that attracted me to his music was the overall beauty of it. He wasn't *afraid* to compose beautiful music. I think it's a shame that he was frowned upon by the establishment. I remember reading somewhere that at a composers convention hosted by L. Bernstein and Aaron Copland his music was treated like second-rate garbage. I believe it was Bernstein who sat at the piano about to play one of Hovhaness' pieces and he said "I'm not going to play this crap," or something to that effect. This upset Hovhaness so badly that he burned all the compositions he wrote at that point and started all over again.

He was a very sensitive person, but I think it's this negativity that he experienced that pushed him and he wound up composing some of his best works.


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## Sid James

Well, that's an interesting anecdote. Obviously, artists, including composers, can be some of the most bitchiest & critical people around, particularly when it comes to what others produce. This is no surprise, because his style is much more understated than what you find in Bernstein's or Copland's works, who both went through hard-edged modernistic phases.

I think that the range of Hovhaness' expression was not limited compared to more modern composers like that, but I think that he used a more restricted palette, so to speak. In the music I've heard (_Guitar Concerto No. 2, Loon Lake Symphony, Fanfare for New Atlantis_), uses quite alot of repetition to build up momentum. There's less of an emphasis on high drama or use of strikingly vivid colours. Instead he has a way, as you say, of expressing himself pretty directly, without any big thrills. I suppose you have to be more of a perceptive listener & let it just grow on you. That's why I have found this music perfect for relaxing, but nonetheless, it doesn't lack some depth...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well, that's an interesting anecdote. Obviously, artists, including composers, can be some of the most bitchiest & critical people around, particularly when it comes to what others produce. This is no surprise, because his style is much more understated than what you find in Bernstein's or Copland's works, who both went through hard-edged modernistic phases.
> 
> I think that the range of Hovhaness' expression was not limited compared to more modern composers like that, but I think that he used a more restricted palette, so to speak. In the music I've heard (_Guitar Concerto No. 2, Loon Lake Symphony, Fanfare for New Atlantis_), uses quite alot of repetition to build up momentum. There's less of an emphasis on high drama or use of strikingly vivid colours. Instead he has a way, as you say, of expressing himself pretty directly, without any big thrills. I suppose you have to be more of a perceptive listener & let it just grow on you. That's why I have found this music perfect for relaxing, but nonetheless, it doesn't lack some depth...


He's a true American maverick.

There are many influences in his music as mentioned in your article, but I think there was something very special about his music. It very much gives me the feeling of some kind of spirituality. His music almost sounds like it's so ancient like it should have been composed a long time ago. It kind of echoes a long lost time of people riding horseback to get to their destinations or sailing by boat. It has this very flowing, watery type of cohesiveness to it.

"Loon Lake" is a beautiful piece of music. I haven't heard it in a while, but all this talk of his music has made me want to hear him again.


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## starry

One of the works I like is the Christmas Symphony from 1981.

I don't really know much about the background of his work such as how he is supposed to be categorized or stereotyped, but it doesn't matter to me. The main matter is the music and understanding it in pure musical terms.


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## BuddhaBandit

I hate to crash the party, but I've got to agree with Bernstein in MI's quote. For me, Hovhaness' music is new age music in formal dress: pretty but simple melodies, uninteresting harmonies, and a manufactured sense of mystery. I can see why some consider him to be groundbreaking, but I think there's a reason why nobody else composed music like him (because all other professional composers were far beyond it).

Hovhaness' music, to me, fails my ultimate test: repeat listenability. I got a little out of him the first time I heard his work; the second time, nada.


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## Mirror Image

BuddhaBandit said:


> I hate to crash the party, but I've got to agree with Bernstein in MI's quote. For me, Hovhaness' music is new age music in formal dress: pretty but simple melodies, uninteresting harmonies, and a manufactured sense of mystery. I can see why some consider him to be groundbreaking, but I think there's a reason why nobody else composed music like him (because all other professional composers were far beyond it).
> 
> Hovhaness' music, to me, fails my ultimate test: repeat listenability. I got a little out of him the first time I heard his work; the second time, nada.


Well I'm not the biggest Hovhaness fan in the world, but some of his works I have really enjoyed like "Mysterious Mountain."

Ultimately, there's not enough rhythmic intensity in his works to hold my interest for very long, but as I said, there are a few works that I like.


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## starry

Yeh I wouldn't like to brandish *all* a composer's works as bad because when you find something that you actually like (might even be a small piece) you might have to come on here and say that maybe you were wrong in being too critical.  No doubt Hovhaness did some weak pieces (maybe alot even), but so does every composer.


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## BuddhaBandit

starry said:


> Yeh I wouldn't like to brandish *all* a composer's works as bad because when you find something that you actually like (might even be a small piece) you might have to come on here and say that maybe you were wrong in being too critical.  No doubt Hovhaness did some weak pieces (maybe alot even), but so does every composer.


I understand that, and, certainly, I might find some gems among his 70 (or whatever) symphonies and other works. But, I've listened to what many call his "major" works, and formed the opinion you see above. It's possible that, by reading this thread, I'll find some more obscure Hovhanness works that I really like.


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## Mirror Image

BuddhaBandit said:


> I understand that, and, certainly, I might find some gems among his 70 (or whatever) symphonies and other works. But, I've listened to what many call his "major" works, and formed the opinion you see above. It's possible that, by reading this thread, I'll find some more obscure Hovhanness works that I really like.


The unfortunate part about Hovhaness, Buddha, is that his works are rarely, if ever, performed or recorded, so his music is quite limited for purchase amongst the public.

Where's Jim (Handlebar) at? He's the resident "Hovhaness" expert. He could definitely help in this discussion.


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## BuddhaBandit

Mirror Image said:


> The unfortunate part about Hovhaness, Buddha, is that his works are rarely, if ever, performed or recorded, so his music is quite limited for purchase amongst the public.


That's true, but my local library happens to have a slew of Naxos Hovhaness discs- so I think I've had substantial exposure to his music.


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## Mirror Image

BuddhaBandit said:


> That's true, but my local library happens to have a slew of Naxos Hovhaness discs- so I think I've had substantial exposure to his music.


Well isn't that something.


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## JoeGreen

BuddhaBandit said:


> That's true, but my local library happens to have a slew of Naxos Hovhaness discs- so I think I've had substantial exposure to his music.


My library also has quite a few Hovhaness CD's I was actually quite surprised.


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## Mirror Image

I never understood why people would want to go to the library and "rent" a CD. I mean that just seems absurd to me. I've looked at the condition of a lot of these CDs they keep at the library and it's a wonder that they even play. Scratches, snot, fungus, saliva, and God only knows what else many of these CDs have on them.


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## starry

Because it's a heck of alot cheaper perhaps. I would never have got into classical music as I did in the 80s or looked at stuff in the 90s without the aid of libraries (either records or cds, or even tapes sometimes). I could look through all kinds of music without having to pay out probably thousands of pounds to buy all of it.


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## Mirror Image

starry said:


> Because it's a heck of alot cheaper perhaps. I would never have got into classical music as I did in the 80s or looked at stuff in the 90s without the aid of libraries (either records or cds, or even tapes sometimes). I could look through all kinds of music without having to pay out probably thousands of pounds to buy all of it.


Yes, I can see the use for the library for some people, but for me, I try to just stay away from that stale environment. I especially get annoyed with the librarians that work in these places. Everybody there just whispers all the time. I can't talk in my normal talking voice, then I don't want to be there. It's like "we should whisper, because we don't want to disturb other people who are reading."

Forget libraries, I don't need them.


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## Tapkaara

Mirror Image said:


> I never understood why people would want to go to the library and "rent" a CD. I mean that just seems absurd to me. I've looked at the condition of a lot of these CDs they keep at the library and it's a wonder that they even play. Scratches, snot, fungus, saliva, and God only knows what else many of these CDs have on them.


Perhaps not everyone has the money to spend on CDs that you do!


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## Mirror Image

Tapkaara said:


> Perhaps not everyone has the money to spend on CDs that you do!


Perhaps not, but I'm not a rich man, Tapkaara, so I'm not sure if I agree with what you're implying.

As I told many people, I don't have a wife or kids, so I'm able to have some extra money to buy CDs. Not that it's really anybody's business.


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## starry

Mirror Image said:


> I never understood why people would want to go to the library and "rent" a CD. I mean that just seems absurd to me. I've looked at the condition of a lot of these CDs they keep at the library and it's a wonder that they even play. Scratches, snot, fungus, saliva, and God only knows what else many of these CDs have on them.


I bet you wouldn't talk like that if it was something rare that wasn't easily available and that you really wanted to hear but the only way you could get it was off some second hand record or cd.


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## Mirror Image

starry said:


> I bet you wouldn't talk like that if it was something rare that wasn't easily available and that you really wanted to hear but the only way you could get it was off some second hand record or cd.


I actually would continue to talk this way, because I don't go to the library. Not a fan of libraries or the people that work at them.

By the way, I've bought many second-hand CDs. I buy them only in "like new" condition though.


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## emiellucifuge

Mysterious Mountain!

great composer of symphonies.


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## Mirror Image

emiellucifuge said:


> Mysterious Mountain!
> 
> great composer of symphonies.


"Mysterious Mountain" is by far my favorite Hovhaness piece. No question about it.


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## Sid James

I've only heard two Naxos discs of Hovhaness, and I like what I hear. I disagree strongly that it's music that doesn't stand up to repeat listening. Sure, it lacks big drama or contrasts, but it has this calming effect which I like. I think he's a pretty good composer, and look forward to acquiring more of those Naxos cd's, including the _Cello Concerto_, which jezbo praised on the current listening thread last week.

As I said, it would be great to hear something by him performed live here in Sydney...


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## BuddhaBandit

Mirror Image said:


> Yes, I can see the use for the library for some people, but for me, I try to just stay away from that stale environment. I especially get annoyed with the librarians that work in these places. Everybody there just whispers all the time. I can't talk in my normal talking voice, then I don't want to be there. It's like "we should whisper, because we don't want to disturb other people who are reading."
> 
> Forget libraries, I don't need them.


But you don't have to use the environment to use the materials. Just go in, grab a book, and leave. What's the point of buying anything (a book, a CD, a magazine) if you're only going to use it once?

And, for a student like myself, libraries are godsends.


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## Sid James

Maybe we should make a seperate thread called 'Do you like/use libraries?' because this doesn't have anything to do with Hovhaness.

I for one have made some interesting discoveries from my local library's pretty ok classical cd collection. I also borrow music from other genres (like blues or rock) which I don't buy regularly. & it's thanks to them that I first got exposed to composers like Walton & Janacek...

Back to Hovhaness, and on the weekend, I introduced a friend to one of the Naxos cd's, which included the _Loon Lake symphony_. The friend found it just as instantly appealing as I did. Said he wants to get that cd. What a great musical discovery this has been. As I said, I'm looking forward to getting more of his works...


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## handlebar

The Loon Lake Symphony is indeed a delight. He wrote many of his later works in reference to the beautiful Pacific Northwest, where I live as well. I find that those who admire Hovhaness tend to prefer the symphonies as opposed to the chamber music or songs. His lush flowing melodies stay with the listener and seem to make one want more. His oeuvre spans a long many years. That gives us plenty to discover.
My friend Martin Berkofsky has told me of his many visits and discussions with Alan Hovhaness. How i wish I'd had the chance to meet the man myself.

As for the library: That was the one place I could go (back in the early 80's) to listen to LP's and cassettes. No internet, no way of hearing a work unless the radio played it. That left out the obscure composers. Many people still do not have internet service or ways to afford the millions of Cd's on the market. So the library is a great service that deserves more attention. My local library has become the receiver of many CD's i donate now and then. I like to give back to the institution that gave to me.

Jim


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## JoeGreen

Mirror Image said:


> Yes, I can see the use for the library for some people, but for me, I try to just stay away from that stale environment. I especially get annoyed with the librarians that work in these places. Everybody there just whispers all the time. I can't talk in my normal talking voice, then I don't want to be there. It's like "we should whisper, because we don't want to disturb other people who are reading."
> 
> Forget libraries, I don't need them.


Lol, Mirror Image you seem to have a very stereotypical library in your area, my condolences. The one I go to isn't like that, maybe a bit stale looking, but not so hush hush and the CD's there are in pretty good condition for the most part, in fact I've never been to one that I've never liked.


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## Mirror Image

handlebar said:


> As for the library: That was the one place I could go (back in the early 80's) to listen to LP's and cassettes. No internet, no way of hearing a work unless the radio played it. That left out the obscure composers. Many people still do not have internet service or ways to afford the millions of Cd's on the market. So the library is a great service that deserves more attention. My local library has become the receiver of many CD's i donate now and then. I like to give back to the institution that gave to me.
> 
> Jim


You have to remember Jim not all of us are fortunate enough to have a decent library in their area. My local library or as I call it "The Hell Hole" doesn't have anything there. Perhaps libraries are a cool thing to have where you live, but for me, they're nothing in the world but infested tax payer-funded swamp.


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## handlebar

Mirror Image said:


> You have to remember Jim not all of us are fortunate enough to have a decent library in their area. My local library or as I call it "The Hell Hole" doesn't have anything there. Perhaps libraries are a cool thing to have where you live, but for me, they're nothing in the world but infested tax payer-funded swamp.


I agree very much with that. The rural areas don't have such luxuries,true. But many also don't have the internet. Soon it will be available everywhere. But until then we do what we can.

Jim


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## Sid James

handlebar said:


> The Loon Lake Symphony is indeed a delight... His lush flowing melodies stay with the listener and seem to make one want more.


I agree with these comments. The _Loon Lake Symphony _has become one of my favourite works. I love how he takes you to the New Hampshire area of his youth. Images of calm lakes conjured up by the woodwind & percussion. & the final fugal treatment of the birdsong theme is just glorious! As you say, I want more, and will be looking out for more Hovhaness cd's whenever I can...


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## Sid James

I've created a seperate thread on libraries, in member's chat. Feel free to continue discussing the topic there:

http://www.talkclassical.com/5846-do-you-use-libraries.html#post59360


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I agree with these comments. The _Loon Lake Symphony _has become one of my favourite works. I love how he takes you to the New Hampshire area of his youth. Images of calm lakes conjured up by the woodwind & percussion. & the final fugal treatment of the birdsong theme is just glorious! As you say, I want more, and will be looking out for more Hovhaness cd's whenever I can...


Hovhaness recordings are hard to come by. If I'm not mistaken there are 3 or 4 on the Naxos label. Hopefully more will follow. I only own two Hovhaness Naxos recordings, two on Telarc, and few on the Delos label.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> Hovhaness recordings are hard to come by. If I'm not mistaken there are 3 or 4 on the Naxos label. Hopefully more will follow. I only own two Hovhaness Naxos recordings, two on Telarc, and few on the Delos label.


Looks like the old adage that a composer has to die for there to be interest generated in his music is true when applied to Hovhaness. Unfortunately we still don't have a cycle of his symphonies available. Or all of the concerti. I've got two of those Naxos cd's & probably be ordering the other two in the future. I'm especially looking forward to Starker playing the _Cello Concerto_...


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## handlebar

For Hovhaness recordings one can tackle the Delos and Naxos series (which are wonderful) but for the best and most definitive one needs to visit the Crystal Records site. This company (which is just down the road from me literally) has the entire back catalogue of Hovhaness recordings endorsed by Alan himself.
AH had started his own recording company back in the 60's and issued many LP's. The collection was then taken over by Crystal and then reissued on CD,etc.

Here is the link:

http://www.crystalrecords.com/Hovhaness.html

These are the bulk of the extant recordings on the market. They get pricey if trying to collect them all. But it is well worth it. I have them all now and wouldn't part with any of them.Highly recommended.

There are still plenty of works unrecorded.Hopefully Naxos will see to undertaking that project further.

Jim


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## Sid James

Have been listening to his _Symphonies Nos. 4, 20 & 53_ on Naxos. Interesting use of wind band & percussion. It's also quite laid-back music. There's only a hint of dissonance in the _Trumpet Concerto_. But I like the other cd, with the _Guitar Concerto No. 2 & Loon Lake Symphony_ somewhat more. That crescendo at the end of _Fanfare to the New Atlantis_ is just magnificent! You can easily imagine the island rising out of the waves. It's one of the best tone-poems I have heard...

I looked at that website, Jim. Looks tantalising, but way too expensive for me now. Maybe sometime in the future. Now, I'll be content with listening to the four Naxos cd's...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Have been listening to his _Symphonies Nos. 4, 20 & 53_ on Naxos. Interesting use of wind band & percussion. It's also quite laid-back music. There's only a hint of dissonance in the _Trumpet Concerto_. But I like the other cd, with the _Guitar Concerto No. 2 & Loon Lake Symphony_ somewhat more. That crescendo at the end of _Fanfare to the New Atlantis_ is just magnificent! You can easily imagine the island rising out of the waves. It's one of the best tone-poems I have heard...
> 
> I looked at that website, Jim. Looks tantalising, but way too expensive for me now. Maybe sometime in the future. Now, I'll be content with listening to the four Naxos cd's...


Interesting that you've become quite the Hovhaness fan, Andre. I like some of his works as I mentioned to you. There's no question that there aren't any composers that sound like him. He developed his own musical language. People always talk about how his music kind of sends your mind somewhere else almost like mental transportation.

He's a good composer no question about it. Like all great American composers like Ives, Copland, Barber, Harris, etc., Hovhaness marched to the beat of his own drummer and did what he wanted to do musically.


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## handlebar

Mirror Image said:


> Interesting that you've become quite the Hovhaness fan, Andre. I like some of his works as I mentioned to you. There's no question that there aren't any composers that sound like him. He developed his own musical language. People always talk about how his music kind of sends your mind somewhere else almost like mental transportation.
> 
> He's a good composer no question about it. Like all great American composers like Ives, Copland, Barber, Harris, etc., Hovhaness marched to the beat of his own drummer and did what he wanted to do musically.


He really did find his own voice. His earlier works do belie a more romantic yet classical approach. But after about 1950, i find the style took on quite a different life. His eastern influences embedded themselves in the music to some degree and that is certainly noticeable. The 70's and 80's seemed to ebb a bit and he became more tonally western in the symphonies and piano works.
I have a letter from him to Martin Berkofsky that details some of his thoughts regarding influence,etc.
Someone needs to write a book on AH. It is way overdue.

Jim


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## Mirror Image

handlebar said:


> He really did find his own voice. His earlier works do belie a more romantic yet classical approach. But after about 1950, i find the style took on quite a different life. His eastern influences embedded themselves in the music to some degree and that is certainly noticeable. The 70's and 80's seemed to ebb a bit and he became more tonally western in the symphonies and piano works.
> I have a letter from him to Martin Berkofsky that details some of his thoughts regarding influence,etc.
> Someone needs to write a book on AH. It is way overdue.
> 
> Jim


I'm not sure if I would sit down and read a book about Hovhaness. I'm usually not one for getting too much into the composer's life, except for maybe a few facts about their inherent style of composition and what were some of the ideas behind the specific composition. I mean I know many people here are into reading, but for me, it has to be REALLY good for me to continue reading, otherwise, I loose interest. I'm much more guided by figuring out music for myself and what it means to me. Nobody really knows what a composer is thinking during a piece. In the words of Leonard Bernstein "It's not like you can call up Beethoven and ask him what he was feeling."

It's the conductors job to interpret the piece of music the way they see fit. This is one reason why I collect different versions of the same pieces, because each interpretation will be different. The music is always the same. It's on paper and it's not going anywhere. It's the job of the conductor to make the music move off the sheets and make it take on a life of it's own.

I'm not a conductor, so my job is to just listen and that's what I do and I come to my own conclusions from listening.


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## handlebar

Mirror Image said:


> I'm not sure if I would sit down and read a book about Hovhaness. I'm usually not one for getting too much into the composer's life, except for maybe a few facts about their inherent style of composition and what were some of the ideas behind the specific composition. I mean I know many people here are into reading, but for me, it has to be REALLY good for me to continue reading, otherwise, I loose interest. I'm much more guided by figuring out music for myself and what it means to me. Nobody really knows what a composer is thinking during a piece. In the words of Leonard Bernstein "It's not like you can call up Beethoven and ask him what he was feeling."
> 
> It's the conductors job to interpret the piece of music the way they see fit. This is one reason why I collect different versions of the same pieces, because each interpretation will be different. The music is always the same. It's on paper and it's not going anywhere. It's the job of the conductor to make the music move off the sheets and make it take on a life of it's own.
> 
> I'm not a conductor, so my job is to just listen and that's what I do and I come to my own conclusions from listening.


I agree with some of your conclusions. Yet I cannot help but feel that the emotions and thoughts of a composer lay on that page and come to life through the orchestra. 
The letters,interviews,diaries and thoughts on page by a composer about his or her works speak volumes about the composition. Conductors do not interpret all of the music in my opinion.The orchestra does.There are many orchestral members that know far more than a conductor. It used to be the norm for a conductor to be able to play every instrument in the orchestra. Not any more. They only now need to be younger,good looking,wave a wand sexily and bring in the crowds.(of course I'm teasing a bit-not all of them are like that)
The conductor might set tempo,etc but that's really up to the composer when the work is laid out. Some conductors mess with the thoughts and works of the composer and I have to say I disagree with that intrusion. Mahler did it to Schumann and I dislike that it was done at all. Therefore the conductor should play the music to only the degree that the composer gives latitude. Call me eccentric in that.

No cuts to a symphony by a conductor.

Jim


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## Mirror Image

handlebar said:


> I agree with some of your conclusions. Yet I cannot help but feel that the emotions and thoughts of a composer lay on that page and come to life through the orchestra.
> The letters,interviews,diaries and thoughts on page by a composer about his or her works speak volumes about the composition. Conductors do not interpret all of the music in my opinion.The orchestra does.There are many orchestral members that know far more than a conductor. It used to be the norm for a conductor to be able to play every instrument in the orchestra. Not any more. They only now need to be younger,good looking,wave a wand sexily and bring in the crowds.(of course I'm teasing a bit-not all of them are like that)
> The conductor might set tempo,etc but that's really up to the composer when the work is laid out. Some conductors mess with the thoughts and works of the composer and I have to say I disagree with that intrusion. Mahler did it to Schumann and I dislike that it was done at all. Therefore the conductor should play the music to only the degree that the composer gives latitude. Call me eccentric in that.
> 
> No cuts to a symphony by a conductor.
> 
> Jim


Yes, the orchestra plays the music, but the conductor interprets it. The best conductors are the ones where they keep a tight leash on the orchestra like Karajan, Abbado, Chailly, etc. Depending on the composer's music, orchestras will and forever overplay the music they see in front of them. I don't like hearing an orchestra that's out-of-control. There needs to balance and order and that's the job of the conductor. It's the conductors job to relate what their feelings are to the orchestra and it's the orchestra's job to react to that conductor and play the music.

I'm not degrading the role of the orchestra, but it's role is very simple: they play the music the way the conductor wants it played. I've seen many videos of an orchestra in rehearsal and contrary to what you're saying, Jim, the conductor runs the show, not the orchestra.


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## handlebar

Mirror Image said:


> Yes, the orchestra plays the music, but the conductor interprets it. The best conductors are the ones where they keep a tight leash on the orchestra like Karajan, Abbado, Chailly, etc. Depending on the composer's music, orchestras will and forever overplay the music they see in front of them. I don't like hearing an orchestra that's out-of-control. There needs to balance and order and that's the job of the conductor. It's the conductors job to relate what their feelings are to the orchestra and it's the orchestra's job to react to that conductor and play the music.
> 
> I'm not degrading the role of the orchestra, but it's role is very simple: they play the music the way the conductor wants it played. I've seen many videos of an orchestra in rehearsal and contrary to what you're saying, Jim, the conductor runs the show, not the orchestra.


The orchestra for decades played with no direction per se in the late 18th to early 19th centuries. Conductors then became the "in" thing and popular for their fanciful actions.
Orchestras could easily then and today play without a conductor in front of them.
That said, I do admire many of today's conductors but mainly for the insight they give an orchestra, not for their tempo changes and fluctuations and additions in instrumentation.
Some are very knowledgeable in music history and in counterpoint,theory,etc. Some conductors are mere wand wavers that look good for the audience and fill seats. Just my .02.
Having been an orchestra/band member for years, i can relate. I'm not against conductors. I merely find most are not worth the trouble.

Jim


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## Mirror Image

handlebar said:


> The orchestra for decades played with no direction per se in the late 18th to early 19th centuries. Conductors then became the "in" thing and popular for their fanciful actions.
> Orchestras could easily then and today play without a conductor in front of them.
> That said, I do admire many of today's conductors but mainly for the insight they give an orchestra, not for their tempo changes and fluctuations and additions in instrumentation.
> Some are very knowledgeable in music history and in counterpoint,theory,etc. Some conductors are mere wand wavers that look good for the audience and fill seats. Just my .02.
> Having been an orchestra/band member for years, i can relate. I'm not against conductors. I merely find most are not worth the trouble.
> 
> Jim


With your logic, Jim there shouldn't even be a conductor.  You'd just let the orchestra do whatever they wanted to. That's pretty ridiculous. I'm not going to listen to an orchestra without a conductor's direction.

I whole-heartedly disagree with you on this one. An orchestra is useless without direction. End of story.


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## handlebar

Mirror Image said:


> With your logic, Jim there shouldn't even be a conductor.  You'd just let the orchestra do whatever they wanted to. That's pretty ridiculous. I'm not going to listen to an orchestra without a conductor's direction.
> 
> I whole-heartedly disagree with you on this one. An orchestra is useless without direction. End of story.


Well at least mature people can agree to disagree and not let it get out of hand.Fair enough.

Jim


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## Sid James

There's some interesting information about Hovhaness' working methods in one of the Naxos cd's notes, written by his widow Hinako Fujihara Hovhaness:

_"So his music came from his head - even orchestral music, complete in sound and form. Then he put it down on paper, using his mastery of musical knowledge, combined with his developing skill and technique. Even though he was an excellent pianist, he used the piano only after the music was written down on paper - just to examine its accuracy."_

Is this common for composers to do? Work the music out in their heads, put it on paper & then check it with an instrument? I don't know much about other composer's working methods, so to me, this sounds like a pretty unique thing...


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## Sid James

I just acquired Hovhaness' _Cello Concerto _(1936), one of his few early works to survive, since he (famously) destroyed most of the rest. I think that he already had his style pretty much sorted out at this early stage, judging from this work. It's in a slow-fast-slow format, very meditative and lyrical for the most part. The part where the flute accompanies the cello in the first movement sounds quite East Asian, and the last movement sounds quite Middle Eastern (Jewish?).

Listening to this work, one realises how much of a pioneer Hovhaness was of non goal oriented music. He was doing this decades before Gorecki, Part & Rautavaara came onto the scene. I think that the _Cello Concerto _withstands repeated listening more than the companion piece on the disc, the _Symphony No. 22 'City of Lights_,' which can get a bit predictable & tedious at times, even though it has a magnificent fugal ending like some other Hovhaness symphonies...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I just acquired Hovhaness' _Cello Concerto _(1936), one of his few early works to survive, since he (famously) destroyed most of the rest. I think that he already had his style pretty much sorted out at this early stage, judging from this work. It's in a slow-fast-slow format, very meditative and lyrical for the most part. The part where the flute accompanies the cello in the first movement sounds quite East Asian, and the last movement sounds quite Middle Eastern (Jewish?).
> 
> Listening to this work, one realises how much of a pioneer Hovhaness was of non goal oriented music. He was doing this decades before Gorecki, Part & Rautavaara came onto the scene. I think that the _Cello Concerto _withstands repeated listening more than the companion piece on the disc, the _Symphony No. 22 'City of Lights_,' which can get a bit predictable & tedious at times, even though it has a magnificent fugal ending like some other Hovhaness symphonies...


You should really hear this recording if you want to hear some good Hovhaness:


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## Bach

good Hovhaness..? Paradox.. mm, you're punny.


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> good Hovhaness..? Paradox.. mm, you're punny.


At least my musical choices reflect my individuality as oppose to your choices, which reflect what the academic circle you've webbed into yourself tells you to think.

Music isn't a popularlity contest. This whole mentality of "my composer is better than your composer" is childish. You're still a teenager, so in time you'll learn that it's not about what composer is better, it's about which composers complete you, satisfy you, and emotionally/intellectually give you the most gratification. That's what music is about or at least in my opinion this is what it's supposed to do.

By the way, you're quick to dismiss Hovhaness, but you dismissed Arvo Part a month or so ago, and now you, all of a sudden, like his choral music? I think this is a prime example of a teenager who is still exploring and experimenting with what they like and what they don't like.


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## Bach

I'm only teasing  I'm fully aware that my choices and tastes are on the move.. !


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> I'm only teasing  I'm fully aware that my choices and tastes are on the move.. !


Well I'm glad Bach. That's very refreshing to hear.


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## Bach

Only you must remember that I can only speak for the present me - some hypothetical future me is a bit irrelevant.. 

Being a fickle *******, I know that what I like and what I deem acceptable is liable to change at any given moment.


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> Only you must remember that I can only speak for the present me - some hypothetical future me is a bit irrelevant..
> 
> Being a fickle *******, I know that what I like and what I deem acceptable is liable to change at any given moment.


You being a fickle individual, you're tastes will change quite often, but I think there will be about 10 composers that you'll always return to after all is said and done.

Ten composers I always return to even after all the classical that I've heard: Ravel, Debussy, Bartok, Delius, Mahler, Poulenc, Barber, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, and Bruckner.


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## Sid James

Well after collecting three of those Naxos discs, I think I have enough Hovhaness. It is true that there is a uniformity & (somewhat) lack of contrast between his works. He tends to use the same devices, and goes up the same roads, so to speak. The only dissonance I have heard is in his _Trumpet Concerto_, a part of it actually sounds like Lutoslawski.

I can understand why some dismiss his music as not being able to stand up to repeated listening. However, I think that the three concertos I have heard (cello, guitar No. 2, trumpet) are probably as satisfying for the listener as any in the modern repertoire, although not showy or gratifying for the soloist. His concertos and symphonies do not pit the soloist against the orchestra, or the different sections of the orchestra against eachother. He uses his musical forces in a unified way, which has more to do with ancient ways of music making, rather than the sturm und drang of the classical tradition.

That said, I do enjoy Hovhaness' music quite alot, not because he matches any of the great C20th composers in terms of deep insight into the human condition, but because he offers a (viable?) alternative. Other composers I enjoy liked to experiment with the current trends in C20th music, such as atonalism, concrete music, chance elements, and so on. But Hovhaness wasn't interested in any of these, and just produced music that is pleasing to the ear. It's that simple & I don't have a problem with that, even though I love other composers who were more experimental as well...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well after collecting three of those Naxos discs, I think I have enough Hovhaness. It is true that there is a uniformity & (somewhat) lack of contrast between his works. He tends to use the same devices, and goes up the same roads, so to speak. The only dissonance I have heard is in his _Trumpet Concerto_, a part of it actually sounds like Lutoslawski.


So that's it? You're done collecting Hovhaness? You haven't even heard "Mysterious Mountain" yet!


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> So that's it? You're done collecting Hovhaness? You haven't even heard "Mysterious Mountain" yet!


Well that Telarc cd above is a good recommendation, but maybe it's somewhat out of my price range? It's been given a thumbs up in the Penguin Guide, I notice, so you've got a good one! From my limited experience, I have developed a liking for Hovhaness' concertos rather than symphonies. I'd actually be interested to he a piano or violin concerto by him, but these aren't widely available. So I'll be content to listen to what I've got.

We actually listened together with a friend of mine to the _Guitar Concerto No. 2/Loon Lake Symphony_ disc a while back. He had never heard any Hovhaness before, and liked it alot. He's only familiar with composers like Gershwin, Copland & Bernstein, if you're talking American classical music. He didn't mind that lack of drama or contrast, & liked how the music has a tendency to flow freely.

So I think that many people, like my friend & I, who hadn't heard Hovhaness in the past can very easily get to like him. His music is very accessible, it's not an acquired taste like some composers. & its a welcome break from the more complicated things in classical, even though Hovhaness idolised composers like Handel for their complex contrapuntal writing, he didn't ape them. He integrated all this knowledge into his own style. So I think he knew how to compose as good as anyone else.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well that Telarc cd above is a good recommendation, but maybe it's somewhat out of my price range? It's been given a thumbs up in the Penguin Guide, I notice, so you've got a good one! From my limited experience, I have developed a liking for Hovhaness' concertos rather than symphonies. I'd actually be interested to he a piano or violin concerto by him, but these aren't widely available. So I'll be content to listen to what I've got.
> 
> We actually listened together with a friend of mine to the _Guitar Concerto No. 2/Loon Lake Symphony_ disc a while back. He had never heard any Hovhaness before, and liked it alot. He's only familiar with composers like Gershwin, Copland & Bernstein, if you're talking American classical music. He didn't mind that lack of drama or contrast, & liked how the music has a tendency to flow freely.
> 
> So I think that many people, like my friend & I, who hadn't heard Hovhaness in the past can very easily get to like him. His music is very accessible, it's not an acquired taste like some composers. & its a welcome break from the more complicated things in classical, even though Hovhaness idolised composers like Handel for their complex contrapuntal writing, he didn't ape them. He integrated all this knowledge into his own style. So I think he knew how to compose as good as anyone else.


I'm glad you enjoy Hovhaness' music. Not many people do, but we both share yet another composer we both enjoy. 

Andre, that Telarc recording is quite good. I'm very keen on that performance of "Mysterious Mountain," but I have to say that the Fritz Reiner/CSO gets my number one vote.

Anyway, here is my Hovhaness collection if you would like to take a look at it:

- Celestial Gate and Other Orchestral Works
Orch: Orch. of Flanders
Cond: Rudolf Werthen
Label: Telarc

- Mysterious Mountain
Orch: Chicago Symphony
Cond: F. Reiner
Label: RCA

- Guitar Concerto No. 2
Orch: Royal Scottish National Orchestra
Cond: Stuart Robertson
Label: Naxos

- Symphony No. 60; Guitar Concerto; Khrimian Hairig
Orch: Berlin Radio Symphony
Cond: Gerard Schwarz
Label: Naxos

- Symphony Nos. 22 "City of Light Symphony" & 50 "Mount St. Helens Symphony"
Orch: Seattle Symphony
Cond: Gerard Schwarz
Label: Delos Records

- Mysterious Mountain, And God Created Great Whales
Orch: Seattle Symphony
Cond: Gerald Schwarz
Label: Delos Records

- Mysterious Mountains
Orch: Royal Liverpool Philharmonic
Cond: Gerald Schwarz
Label: Telarc

- Mystery Of The Holy Martyrs, Symphony No.3
Orch: KBS Symphony
Cond: Vakhtang Jordania
Label: Soundset Records

- Requiem and Resurrection; Symphony No. 19 "Vishnu"
Orch: NJ Wind Symphony, Sevan Philharmonic
Cond: Alan Hovhaness
Label: Crystal Records


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## handlebar

I currently own 99% of the available Hovhaness recordings on CD and many CD's of past issues,historic issues and 78's/LP's converted to CD. All in all i would say it they number around 60-70CD's. I would have to find them all and catalog them.

Not all Hovhaness is heaven sent. Some are just plain duds. We all have our favourites and the works we don't like. What irritates me is someone who prejudges a composer before hearing any of his works or only a very small fraction. It is like someone reviewing a film and basing it ONLY on the first 5 minutes. One does not form a good impression of the overall aspect.

Jim


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## Mirror Image

handlebar said:


> What irritates me is someone who prejudges a composer before hearing any of his works or only a very small fraction. It is like someone reviewing a film and basing it ONLY on the first 5 minutes. One does not form a good impression of the overall aspect.


I don't think there's anything wrong with someone who dismisses a composer that they haven't heard. Would I listen to someone like Ligeti? Of course not, because I have read enough about him to know that I wouldn't like his music. I'm not a fan of post WWII classical music anyway unless it's written by someone whose music I actually enjoy like Malcolm Arnold's or Barber's.


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## Sid James

handlebar said:


> What irritates me is someone who prejudges a composer before hearing any of his works or only a very small fraction. It is like someone reviewing a film and basing it ONLY on the first 5 minutes. One does not form a good impression of the overall aspect...


I agree with you 110%. This is not only the case with Hovhaness, who some may judge as a inferior compose for various misguided reasons. & maybe there are issues of snobbishness, just because his music is not as challenging as some of his contemporaries, people dismiss him as a lightweight. I can hear many influences in his music, such as Haydn, Brahms & Bruckner, but Hovhaness assimilated these in a unique way. I have only heard a small proportion of his output, but all of these 3 naxos cd's have something to offer. For me, he's a relaxing but still stimulating accompaniment to some of the more intense music I listen to, such as by Varese, Schoenberg or Messiaen. Even though I like these types of composers, it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate Hovhaness for his unique way of reinterpreting the ancient traditions found in both Western & Eastern music. It's interesting in it's own way, and the only reason I can think of for Leonard Bernstein dismissing Hovhaness' music is perhaps professional jealousy...


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## handlebar

Andre said:


> I agree with you 110%. This is not only the case with Hovhaness, who some may judge as a inferior compose for various misguided reasons. & maybe there are issues of snobbishness, just because his music is not as challenging as some of his contemporaries, people dismiss him as a lightweight. I can hear many influences in his music, such as Haydn, Brahms & Bruckner, but Hovhaness assimilated these in a unique way. I have only heard a small proportion of his output, but all of these 3 naxos cd's have something to offer. For me, he's a relaxing but still stimulating accompaniment to some of the more intense music I listen to, such as by Varese, Schoenberg or Messiaen. Even though I like these types of composers, it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate Hovhaness for his unique way of reinterpreting the ancient traditions found in both Western & Eastern music. It's interesting in it's own way, and the only reason I can think of for Leonard Bernstein dismissing Hovhaness' music is perhaps professional jealousy...


Bernstein and his attempt at witticism regarding Hovhaness were ,in my opinion, mere bloviations that were made at a time when AH was at his most vulnerable. I think LB knew this and, using his powerful tongue, said some things that would have an impact in his immediate circle of friends ie Copland,Thomson,Rorem,etc. Later i life i wonder how LB might have viewed Hovhaness. Many years had passed since those views uttered by Bernstein. And even though AH had success and recordings under his belt while LB was alive, he has started to come into his own Renaissance over the last 15 years since Delos ans Naxos have recorded some things. AH and his time are still futuristic to me. He has not been appreciated by the masses yet. But it will happen.

Jim


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## jurianbai

just borrowed from library :









I like this style. Sounds new age, soundtrack like, and melodious. But I can see what Andre pointed out, maybe in more than 3 CDs I will see many repeated idea. The other composer like this maybe Korngold. I read Hovhaness also do string quartets, now that is interesting to get. I wonder if this is 'American' style.


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## Guest

After hearing the Symphonies nos. 2 and 22 (Mysterious Mountain and City of Light), I definitely heard some very similar things going on in both. But from all I've heard, there isn't much that is really "American," at least not like Copland or Still or Gershwin. Hovhaness' style seems more diverse. I love it, though.


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## Sid James

jurianbai said:


> ...I like this style. Sounds new age, soundtrack like, and melodious. But I can see what Andre pointed out, maybe in more than 3 CDs I will see many repeated idea. The other composer like this maybe Korngold. I read Hovhaness also do string quartets, now that is interesting to get. I wonder if this is 'American' style.


I just lent that_ Loon Lake Symphony_ Naxos cd to a friend & she loved it. I think that it is very accessible, finely crafted & likeable music. & it does stand up to repeated listening, imo.

I have Hovhaness' _String Quartet No. 3_, called "Memories from my childhood." It's an interesting work, like Lutoslawski's string quartet, there are no meter markings. But while the Lutoslawski sounds quite intense and dramatic, the Hovhaness is far more laid back. I haven't listened to it in a while, I'll go back and listen & tell you more if you're interested. It's played by the Shanghai String Quartet & on a Delos budget double cd set of Hovhaness' orchestral & chamber music:

http://www.amazon.com/Hovhaness-Col...2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276577737&sr=1-2-spell


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## Falstaft

I feel the same fatigue with Hovhaness that Andre and a couple others have expressed -- with a style as consistent (and at times not very dynamic) as his, and an output as BIG as his, I suppose it's bound to happen.

That said, I also _really_ like AH. Like some of you, I discovered him through "Mysterious Mountain" (on that same excellent Williams recording that also has wonderful take on the kindred spirit Toru Takemitsu's _Tree Line_, not to mention JW's cool bassoon concerto). Taken on its own, it's a pretty remarkable composition (though perhaps not so impressive once you hear a lot of other AH that sounds similar). The 2nd and 3rd movement in particular are wonderful, from that dazzling double fugue to the subdued monumentality of the the finale. It was terrific music to accompany a visit to Mount Rainier I made a couple years back. At his best, I find AH synthesizes the harmonic language of Vaughan Williams with a more personal, Eastern-influence

Judging from the enthusiasm here, I will definitely pick up the Naxos recording of "Loon Lake." As a New Englander myself, I can't resist a piece that is inspired by some secluded lake in New Hampshire.


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## clavichorder

There is great controversy in my mind about Alan Hovhaness. If I were merely to enjoy him on his own terms, not put him down, or blow him up, I might listen to him every once in a while and be fine with that. The only reason I ever put him down, is because I sometimes feel that he is a guilty pleasure. I legitimately used to not care about him that much. 

For some reason I think I have a sort of sympathy for this composer. I don't know what it is exactly, but I just like him. I like listening to Mysterious Mountain anyway, his most performed piece perhaps.

I'm curious about the standout pieces in his output that might remain gems in the rough, so to speak.

Also, I tried to revive the Hovhaness thread, but it wouldn't show up for some reason. Thoughts on this composer?


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## neoshredder

I'd rank him up there with many of the early 20th century composers. Maybe not as high as Stravinsky, Bartok, or Shostakovich, but it is basically anyones choice after that imo. That is a good name for the piece imo. It is like a big journey. It's visual in that way.


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## suffolkcoastal

Have just posted this on the Hovhaness thread on the articles page, so thought it was worth copying to this thread too.

I first heard Hovhaness's music through the use of his 'Vishnu' symphony in the Cosmos TV series. Whilst composing such a vast catalogue of works there is the inevitable variability in quality (the Vishnu Symphony is superb but the Christmas Symphony really is very weak), Hovhaness's music is ultimately unlike anything else. In relation to his symphonies for example, you must throw away any preconception on how a symphony should be written in the traditional western sense and instead allow Hovhaness's own individual sound world to take over. It is understandable that his style isn't for everyone, but if his style registers with you then his music can be a real experience.


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## Ukko

I associate much of his music with _long, slow thoughts_. The Leviathan, or Pratchet's trees. When I listen, I get the illusion that _I_ am thinking long, slow thoughts. Turns out, if I'm really into the music, that I'm not thinking at all; just letting those modal shifts roll on.


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## Vaneyes

The Hov composed too much, but he has some beauties. Mount St. Helens (No. 50), I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best symphony since Shostakovich.

View attachment 3718


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## Sid James

I do like his stuff, esp. in terms of it being very listenable but still of high quality of craftsmanship & very visual, which I like.

There is the "sameness" issue with him, the uniformity of his style, but I think that Delius and Takemitsu also have that kind of issue. In these cases, I don't see it as a problem, these guy's sound is not easy to replicate and very unique.

I have liked most things I've collected from Hovhaness on disc, but it's not like a dozen cd's. But I do have a fair amount of his things, THIS twofer on Delos is a great one stop shop, it has the _Mount St. Helen's _symphony mentioned above, as well as the _Mysterious Mountain _one, as well as many other goodies.

Naxos also has a good range of Hovhaness' music, and Telarc as well.

I like how he was very eclectic, but his voice is unique overall. A blend of many things, from neo-classicism, to Romanticism, things from his ARmenian heritage, as well as Japan (where his wife was from), also he took (like Lutoslawski) controlled chance techniques from John Cage (who was a friend and admirer of his music). He really bought a lot of things together in his music.

Earlier thread on Hovhaness HERE.


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## starthrower

Vaneyes said:


> The Hov composed too much, but he has some beauties. Mount St. Helens (No. 50), I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best symphony since Shostakovich.
> 
> View attachment 3718


By coincidence, my local classical radio station played no. 50 this morning. I like it!


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## neoshredder

Listening to this right now recommended from somebody based on my taste of music. Really melodic.


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## hreichgott

I recently checked out Hovhaness' "Visionary Landscapes" for piano from the library (funny that there were library flames on this thread from years ago!) and gave it a first read-through. I think it's wonderful stuff. They are piano miniatures that appear simple: often only one note playing at a time, long passages without bar lines and lots of repeated notes. But when I miscounted one of those repeated notes, it was evident right away that something was wrong. Although the ingredients are simple these pieces are very precisely constructed. While an experienced pianist can certainly find much detail work to sink his/her teeth into, an intermediate student would be capable of playing them and enjoying the lovely sound quality and sense of atmosphere. The last piece, "Midnight Bell," is played entirely on the strings without use of the keyboard. As the number of notes is limited, it would be a good first piece for a student who has not done any unconventional manipulation of the piano before.


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## Ukko

http://www.amazon.com/Fred-Cat-Cent...id=1362925290&sr=1-6&keywords=hovhaness+piano

Hovhaness had a much wider vision than he generally gets credit for. The above CD is on the expensive side, but pieces from the 'list of ingredients' can be found elsewhere. And this CD is enjoyable if you want to spring for it.


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## Selby

I like a lot of Havhaness' work...

I think highly of the the 3rd and 4th SQs "Reflections of my Childhood" and "The Ancient Mountain," The Mt. St. Helens and the Mysterious Mountain symphonies, the Cello and Harp concertos, Mountains and Rivers Without End, and The Prayer of St. Gregory.

A lot of good work in my opinion. I find his voice very unique. I may throw on the Cello Concerto again tonight.


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## techniquest

My favourite Hovhaness work is the orchestral piece Fra Angelico, while my fave symphony of his (though I haven't heard all of them) is the 11th 'All Men are Brothers'.


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## mstar

Years ago, my siblings played Hovhaness's Mystic Flute, a piano piece. I was struck by the unique style in which Hovhaness writes. Truly wonderful and different!


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## neoshredder

Love Symphony 6 "Celestial Gates". Great tonal music of modern music.


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## FilmMusic

*Hovhaness sacred choral music*

Nothing has been said about Hovhaness sacred choral music. There is a brilliant album on Delos featuring his Magnificat and other hymns. Hovhaness could really write for choir. For me, this is my favorite way to experience his music although I love the orchestral music as well.









Magificat on Delos
The Choirs and Orchestra of St. John's Cathedral, Denver, CO
Donald Pearson conducting

Hovhaness 
Magnificat, Op 15
Psalm 23: The Lord is My Shepherd	
Jesus, lover of my soul, Op. 53, No. 1
4 Motets, Op. 246: No. 4. A Rose Tree Blossoms
Easter Cantata, Op. 100, No. 3, "Jesus Christ is Risen Today"
The Lord's Prayer	
3 Motets, Op. 259: No. 1. Peace be Multiplied	
O for a shout of sacred joy, Op. 161
Out of the Depths, Op. 142, No. 3, "Psalm 130"	
O God our help in ages past, Op. 137


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## clavichorder

He has a certain reputation, but I enjoy Mysterious Mountain quite a bit. The criticism that he doesn't move anywhere and is static is simply not true of this work, though entirely accurate for others. It takes its time with the material that it uses, but due to the relative concision of the work, it does go places with different layering and returning of themes. I particularly feel excited listening to the finale, but there are certain moments that really effectively mark the progress of the first and second mvts. I respect his work as a composer on the whole; he certainly did go his own way. I am also fascinated by his connection to Martinu, as a student who looked up to him.


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## Strange Magic

Back in the 1950s, MGM Records briefly seized upon the music of Alan Hovhaness as a vehicle to augment their reputation as a pioneer in recording contemporary classical music. They released a number of Hovhaness' works, often using a small orchestra conducted by Carlos Surinach, including a spectacularly fine album, MGM E 3674, with IMO the definitive reading of his Piano Concerto #1, _Lousadzak_, with Maro Ajemian at the keyboard. The other side of the 33 yielded Hovhaness' stunningly beautiful Violin Concerto #2, Opus 89a, with violinist Anahid Ajemian.

The album was re-released years later by MGM on their Heliodor label, as HS-25040, but I think has long vanished from sight. I have heard other performances of _Lousadzak_, the one by Keith Jarrett is most commonly referenced, but Maro Ajemian most clearly understood the underlying structure of the piece, and my reaction after hearing Jarrett and other pianists try their hand at the concerto, and then listening to Ajemian, is to say, Aahhh, That is how it is to be played.

The violin concerto is a masterpiece. It is in seven short movements that alternate slow and fast, with a final Hymn that can bring tears to the eyes. I cannot recommend this album too highly-- it is definitive Hovhaness.


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## Skilmarilion

Strange Magic said:


> Back in the 1950s, MGM Records briefly seized upon the music of Alan Hovhaness as a vehicle to augment their reputation as a pioneer in recording contemporary classical music. They released a number of Hovhaness' works, often using a small orchestra conducted by Carlos Surinach, including a spectacularly fine album, MGM E 3674, with IMO the definitive reading of his Piano Concerto #1, _Lousadzak_, with Maro Ajemian at the keyboard. The other side of the 33 yielded Hovhaness' stunningly beautiful Violin Concerto #2, Opus 89a, with violinist Anahid Ajemian.
> 
> The album was re-released years later by MGM on their Heliodor label, as HS-25040, but I think has long vanished from sight. I have heard other performances of _Lousadzak_, the one by Keith Jarrett is most commonly referenced, but Maro Ajemian most clearly understood the underlying structure of the piece, and my reaction after hearing Jarrett and other pianists try their hand at the concerto, and then listening to Ajemian, is to say, Aahhh, That is how it is to be played.
> 
> The violin concerto is a masterpiece. It is in seven short movements that alternate slow and fast, with a final Hymn that can bring tears to the eyes. I cannot recommend this album too highly-- it is definitive Hovhaness.


The album you refer to is on Spotify.


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## Selby

^ That's fantastic. I thought that it had never been released on CD>


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## MonagFam

There was a time when Hovhaness (whom I affectionaly referred to as Hovh-y-baby) was perhaps my favorite modern composer. There probably weren't many trips to Best. buy that did not in with bringing a CD of his works back home.

He grew a little stale for me as I felt that so many of the works I had were almost indistinguishable to my ears. I think I could use a refresher course on him to get that appreciation back up. Still has some of my favorite pieces.


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## DeepR

The first 7 minutes of Celestial Gate Op. 173 are absolutely marvelous, gorgeous! 
The entire middle section seems a bit unnecessary to me. But who cares, I already like this composer for those 7 minutes. The last part is very pretty too.


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