# Help me with Sibelius



## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I would like to get to know Sibelius's music better; so far, I only know the Violin Concerto, Finlandia, and The Swan Of Tuonela. Where should I go next; the tone poems, or the symphonies? Please recommend single CDs only, rather than sets, explaining why you think your particular chosen version of a work is great. For a heads-up, I am drawn to the symphony cycle with Pietari Inkinen on Naxos, but you might have different opinions, so please share them with me.

Thanks.

Louis Solomons


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

All seven symphonies are essential, perhaps best to start with 2, 5 and 7 (although as time goes on you may find that others become your top favourite - for me it is the fourth).

Tapiola is a must among the tone poems. Valse Triste is overplayed, but I still love it.

One recommendation outside the box: the music composed for Pelleas & Melisande (I rate it higher than many of the tone poems.

I don't do recommendations of versions - I find there is not that much consensus any way between various listeners.


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

I just got this and love it. Because I have only heard this version, from personal experience, I can say it's the best I've ever encountered, due to the unparalleled interpretation by the conductor and peerless playing of the orchestra.









Sibelius
Lemminkainen Legends, Tapiola
Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra
Leif Sederstam
Label: Ondine
CD-quality download purchased for $5 (USD) yesterday from Qobuz.com


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Get symphonies 2 and 5. The rest can wait. For no. 2 look for Szell's Tokyo recording or Barbirolli's Royal Philharmonic version. For 5, the Sony Bernstein is thrilling. Those two are his most popular for good reason. The First is my favorite, but takes more time to appreciate. 

Then check out the Karelia Suite - it's a lighter work, hardly profound, but it's a well-known work that any classical listener should at least know.

His string quartet, Voces Intimae, is beautiful and shows a totally different side of the composer. 

Sibelius wrote a lot of terrific tone poems: Tapiola, Pojola's Daughter, En Saga and others are just terrific. Some, like Night Ride and Sunrise, are dreadfully dull. There's a DG 3-disk set with Neeme Jarvi that has them all and there's no better way to collect all that music.

Be careful! Sibelius can be very, very addicting and you'll wind up like me by purchasing that huge 13 volume set of disks from Bis with his complete works - supposedly.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Karelia suite
Symphonies # 1, 2
Violin Concerto
Finlandia


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Apart from the symphonies try his Voces Intimae String Quartet op.56. A personal favourite.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you for all your recommendations. I couldn't find the Szell, Barbirolli, or Bernstein (Sony) versions of Symphonies 2 & 5 on Qobuz, so I'll just follow my anthology (The Rough Guide To Classical Music) instead. (I think they have Vanska somewhere in there anyway; I've heard he's pretty good). I'll also check out some of the tone poems mentioned above. I would also just like to say that The Penguin Guide (a 2010 one or thereabouts) recommends the complete cycle of Symphonies with Pietari Inkinen. Maybe I'll check if Symphonies 2 and 5 are coupled together and start from there. Thoughts?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There are lots of good Sibelius sets. There are a few stinkers, too. But then there are some of the classic GREAT ones. While no conductor get everything perfect, there are some who know the music and played it a lot before setting down a recording that their sets are really worth the time to find. Some of the best IMO: Paavo Bergland (EMI), Leonard Bernstein (Sony, NOT DG), Herbert Blomstedt (Decca), Neeme Jarvi (Bis on DG), and Lorin Maazel (Decca). Other people will have their own preferences.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

1) Symphony #2 (Szell - either Cleveland live in Tokyo or Concertgebouw. Ormandy is also very enjoyable)
2) Symphony #5 (Karajan - '70's EMI is my favorite)
3) Tapiola (Karajan from the 80's. Awesome.)


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

Can't go wrong with the Symphonies with Lahti, either the Vänskä set or the newer Kamu set. Kamu also has 
*Lemminkäinen Suite & The Wood-Nymph (now a bit expensive)*


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> Thank you for all your recommendations. I couldn't find the Szell, Barbirolli, or Bernstein (Sony) versions of Symphonies 2 & 5 on Qobuz, so I'll just follow my anthology (The Rough Guide To Classical Music) instead. (I think they have Vanska somewhere in there anyway; I've heard he's pretty good). I'll also check out some of the tone poems mentioned above. I would also just like to say that The Penguin Guide (a 2010 one or thereabouts) recommends the complete cycle of Symphonies with Pietari Inkinen. Maybe I'll check if Symphonies 2 and 5 are coupled together and start from there. Thoughts?


I am almost positive Barbirolli's recording of No. 2 is on Qobuz (at least their streaming service, not sure about sales):






Qobuz


Listen to your music in high quality




play.qobuz.com





Pretty sure the Bernstein recordings are also on.






Qobuz


Listen to your music in high quality




play.qobuz.com





Not sure if this is the Szell recording being referenced:






Qobuz


Listen to your music in high quality




play.qobuz.com





I would seek out Vanska's set with the Lahti SO rather than the later set with Minnesota.


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

If I own Vanska/Lahti, would Kamu/Lahti be different enough to be interesting?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> There are lots of good Sibelius sets. There are a few stinkers, too. But then there are some of the classic GREAT ones. While no conductor get everything perfect, there are some who know the music and played it a lot before setting down a recording that their sets are really worth the time to find. Some of the best IMO: Paavo Bergland (EMI), Leonard Bernstein (Sony, NOT DG), Herbert Blomstedt (Decca), Neeme Jarvi (Bis on DG), and Lorin Maazel (Decca). Other people will have their own preferences.


Add Alexander Gibson / Royal Scottish National Orch., to that list.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> Get symphonies 2 and 5. The rest can wait. For no. 2 look for Szell's Tokyo recording or Barbirolli's Royal Philharmonic version. For 5, the Sony Bernstein is thrilling. Those two are his most popular for good reason. The First is my favorite, but takes more time to appreciate.
> 
> Then check out the Karelia Suite - it's a lighter work, hardly profound, but it's a well-known work that any classical listener should at least know.
> 
> ...


I have the Jarvi cycle of Symphonies on BIS. Fantastic sound as most BIS discs are


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Though not well known Sibelius has some interesting solo piano works as well. I have a few of the Tawaststjerna cycle on BIS


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Sibelius 5th is my personal favourite symphony by anybody,Sibelius is my favourite composer.......i have been listening to him since I was young. This does not mean that I listen to him all the time but it does mean that I listen to his music frequently. The previous recommendations are all admirable in my opinion and this will always reflect individual taste and preferences but I would recommend the 3rd symphony....it appears to be missing from the above and is often missing from a lot of discussions of this nature.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like to get to know Sibelius's music better; so far, I only know the Violin Concerto, Finlandia, and The Swan Of Tuonela. *Where should I go next; the tone poems, or the symphonies*? *Please recommend single CDs only, rather than sets*, explaining why you think your particular chosen version of a work is great. For a heads-up, I am drawn to *the symphony cycle with Pietari Inkinen on Naxos*, but you might have different opinions, so please share them with me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Louis Solomons


In response to the three parts of your post I've highlighted, I can only say what worked for me:

1. The symphonies next. I started with 3, only because it was a gift from my brother, ripped from its origin, so I don't know whose it is. Then 5, which I'd seen on TV - Rattle and the BPO. I went and bought the Inkinen so I could enjoy it myself, paired with the 4th. It took me some time to get into the 4th, thinking the last movement sounded trite with its glockenspiel. Eventually, I so fell in love with the third movement that I bought the Davis/LSO Live.

In the meantime, Mahlerian (no longer a member here) recommended the Bournemouth/Berglund and I worked my way through the whole set, finding the 6th the most appealing. This took me from Feb 2015 to June 2015. By October 2015, I was binging on the 7th.

2. You'll notice that despite your asking for members not to recommend sets, almost all of us have failed. That may be because it's sometimes just more economic to buy a set, rather than singles (or it may be people just ignored your request). Becca here most often says that she doesn't do sets - doubtless there are others, but I can't remember any.

3. Once I'd started to love Sibelius, I sought out a variety of interpretations, so I didn't buy any more of the Inkinen. I like the Davis/LSO except when he hums along, and he takes the 6th too fast (for my taste). I won't mention the set that I listen to most often. Suffice to say that while I have sampled some of the older recordings named by others (eg Gibson, Barbirolli, Karajan) I own none of them and have settled on Segerstam, Vanska and Davis and am on the lookout for others such as Thomas Sondergard and the BBC NOW, though as he's not with them any longer, I don't think the cycle will be completed.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Some of the conductors mentioned above are included in The Rough Guide To Classical Music. I think Jarvi is recommended for Symphony No.2, as well as the Vanska/Lahti cycle. Jansons's recording with the Oslo Philharmonic is recommended for the First Symphony, coupled with Finlandia. 

Somehow, I like the idea of listening to a symphonic cycle in order to experience the composer's orchestral and melodic development, so I might do that using the recordings in my anthology. 

I have the Violin Concerto coupled with the Nielaen in a recording by Cho Liang Lin, with Esa Pekka Salonen conducting the Philharmonia & Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestras (seemingly one for each concerto).

The reason why I prefer individual discs to sets is because I can enjoy each work in its own right better than feeling that I must sit through a whole set of something. That's just my preferred way of listening generally.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

There is nothing wrong with listening to the symphonies in chronologica/numerical order. As others have said, the 2nd and 5th seem the most popular and the 3rd and 4th could be a bit tough after 1 and 2 (the most "romantic") but if you like the general style as you apparently do, there should not be a huge problem and you can always move on to the next one if a piece does not appeal. 
The tone poems are all over the place from more picturesquely romantic than the symphonies (Lemminkäninen suite, En saga...) to rather slight (popular/theatrical) works and some maybe even more "abstract" or daring than the symphonies (e.g. Luonnotar and Tapiola). I'd just go with the best known popular ones, often used as fillers on symphony discs.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

If you got Spotify. Talk Classical recommended from Sibelius. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/58hwTJNwXaU23x1X183nJ1?si=zInbHsz8TRmGmqJlMbfROw


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> There is nothing wrong with listening to the symphonies in chronologica/numerical order. As others have said, the 2nd and 5th seem the most popular and the 3rd and 4th could be a bit tough after 1 and 2 (the most "romantic") but if you like the general style as you apparently do, there should not be a huge problem and you can always move on to the next one if a piece does not appeal.
> The tone poems are all over the place from more picturesquely romantic than the symphonies (Lemminkäninen suite, En saga...) to rather slight (popular/theatrical) works and some maybe even more "abstract" or daring than the symphonies (e.g. Luonnotar and Tapiola). I'd just go with the best known popular ones, often used as fillers on symphony discs.


Thanks. I will look through _The Rough Guide To Classical Music _and use their recommendations. As it happens, some of the symphonies are indeed coupled with the tone poems. See my previous post for some of the conductors involved.


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

I listened to this CD last night. Recording technically a beautiful sound!


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

I wonder if there is any scientific research on the best method of getting to know a composer?

Some of us go with the ”easiest first” method, some of us think one should get to know the greatest compositional achievements first.

Considering we are all so different and get to know composers at different stages of our personal development, I really have a feeling that one method works for some, some other method works for some others.

I would say that if you do not care for any of these works, you might not like Sibelius at all:

Karelia Suite
Lemminkäinen Legends
Symphony no. 2
Pohjola’s Daughter
Symphony no. 5
Symphony no. 7


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

Waehnen said:


> I would say that if you do not care for any of these works, you might not like Sibelius at all:
> 
> Karelia Suite
> Lemminkäinen Legends
> ...


A few people like Op. 26 pretty well. I think somebody should try it before dismissing Sibelius.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

N Fowleri said:


> A few people like Op. 26 pretty well. I think somebody should try it before dismissing Sibelius.


True! I love the hymn especially when sung but the celebratory brass repetition stuff is not my cup of tea. So I could not list Finlandia, really.

It is an awful thought that Mahler knew only Finlandia, Spring Song and Valse Triste from Sibelius! Really awful. I better not even think about it.


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

Waehnen said:


> True! I love the hymn especially when sung but the celebratory brass repetition stuff is not my cup of tea. So I could not list Finlandia, really.
> 
> It is an awful thought that Mahler knew only Finlandia, Spring Song and Valse Triste from Sibelius! Really awful. I better not even think about it.


Have you ever listened to the YL Male Voice Choir's a capella version of Finlandia? I love it.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you for your help. Sibelius sounds like a new exciting listening adventure for me, beyond Finlandia, Karelia, The Swan of Tuonela, and the Violin Concerto. Here goes!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Just don't let the words of conductor/composer Rene Leibowitz get in the way. He described Sibelius as "the world's worst composer".


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

The symphonies of course!! But there's a wonderful cd on BIS, incidental music, Lahti SO/ Osmo Vanska. Pelleas, Karelia, and King Christian. The latter is a personal favourite among Sibelius' works. It's just lovely... .!


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> Just don't let the words of conductor/composer Rene Leibowitz get in the way. He described Sibelius as "the world's worst composer".


Critcs Virgil Thomson and Harold Schoenberg didn't like Sibelius very much either. 

While I'm a big Sibelius fan myself there's not much I can add to the various suggestions already made. Right now where I live in the Boston are of the USA it is very and HOT and humid and I find this tropical weather not very conducive to Sibelius' musical reflections of big lakes, powerful hiils and mountans, mighty pines, and other pictures of the arctic north. Along with Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, and Shostakovich; I tend to save Sibelius for wintertime when we here in New England often recieve our own blasts of Arctic weather and part of the fun of Sibelius is also the wintery cover art.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Coach G said:


> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmMWP-nJALoDHBxw-QdUk_I-hh-HNzKXcGXg&usqp=CAU[/IMG]


Thanks for this recommendation, but I'll follow _The Rough Guide To Classical Music _instead...hope you're not offended. I just use it for most other pieces, that's all. I think they recommend Neeme Jarvi's version, but I'll listen to the Symphonies in order. No 1 is with Mariss Jansons and the Oslo Philharmonic, coupled with Finlandia and the Karelia Suite.


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## MusicInTheAir (Apr 21, 2007)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like to get to know Sibelius's music better; so far, I only know the Violin Concerto, Finlandia, and The Swan Of Tuonela. Where should I go next; the tone poems, or the symphonies? Please recommend single CDs only, rather than sets, explaining why you think your particular chosen version of a work is great. For a heads-up, I am drawn to the symphony cycle with Pietari Inkinen on Naxos, but you might have different opinions, so please share them with me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Louis Solomons


As has already been recommended, I would try to find the "live" Szell Tokyo performance of the Sibelius Second. If you can't find that, then Barbirolli/Royal Philharmonic or Monteux/LSO is the way to go. After that, I'd recommend the 1st or 5th symphonies. To be honest, any of the symphonies are fine listening experiences. I prefer Sir Colin Davis. Another fine choice is the previously recommended Segerstam recording of the Four Leminkaenen Legends.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Coach G said:


>


These must be two of the most underrated Sibelius cycles.
Abravanel was my introduction to Sibelius, and his cycle still stands pretty strong. Saraste's cycle with the Finnish Radio SO is idiomatic, exciting (live recordings!) and in very well captured sound.
Though I'm not sure if the Finlandia disks that I own are identical to the RCA edition?


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## mahler9 (9 mo ago)

SearsPoncho said:


> 1) Symphony #2 (Szell - either Cleveland live in Tokyo or Concertgebouw. Ormandy is also very enjoyable)
> 2) Symphony #5 (Karajan - '70's EMI is my favorite)
> 3) Tapiola (Karajan from the 80's. Awesome.)


Nice to see someone mention that lat 70s Karajan EMI recording. It's an awesome performance, very well recorded.


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## mahler9 (9 mo ago)

Sibelius is a huge favorite of mine -- just a few things I'll mention: 

-All the symphonies, but you could start with the first two - Maazel/Vienna PO on Decca would be my recommendation, but there are many others.
-Lemminkaïnen Suite (aka Four Legends from the Kalevala), some of his greatest music, particularly "Lemminkaïnen and the Maidens of Saari"
-"Pohjola's Daughter" symphonic poem, a towering masterpiece


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

MusicInTheAir said:


> I prefer Sir Colin Davis.


The first Davis set from Boston is terrific. The fine orchestra and recorded sound really help. His third set, live with the LSO is also pretty good. But DO NOT get the second set now in a cheap RCA box. There's some really bad playing there. A timpanist who gets lost in the 5th is funny, but unacceptable. I will never understand why the producer for that set allowed it to be released.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Thanks all. Here are my selections, following _The Rough Guide To Classical Music, except for the Symphony No.5, which I couldn't find on Qobuz. I therefore made my own choice._

*Symphony No.1. Oslo Philharmonic, Mariss Jansons. *Coupled with the Karelia Suite and Finlandia.

*Symphony No.2. Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra, Neeme Jarvi. *Coupled with the Romance in C Major.

*Symphony No.3. London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis. *Coupled with the Symphony No.7

*Symphony No.4. Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Osmo Vanska. *Coupled with the Symphony No.1. *How does this compare to that other great Sibelian, Mariss Jansons?

Symphony No.5: Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra, Neeme Jarvi. *Coupled with the Karelia Overture (no, not the Suite) and the Andante Festivo.

*Symphony No.6: Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Osmo Vanska. *Coupled with the Symphony No.7 & Tapiola.

*Symphony No.7: *See details for Symphony No.6

What do you think?


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

mahler9 said:


> Nice to see someone mention that lat 70s Karajan EMI recording. It's an awesome performance, very well recorded.


And that single EMI disc is paired with an excellent 4th Symphony. The '60's recordings on DG are very good as well, but that EMI single disc from the '70's is desert island-worthy.


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> Thanks all. Here are my selections, following _The Rough Guide To Classical Music, except for the Symphony No.5, which I couldn't find on Qobuz. I therefore made my own choice._
> 
> *Symphony No.1. Oslo Philharmonic, Mariss Jansons. *Coupled with the Karelia Suite and Finlandia.
> 
> ...


I might not quite understand. You solicited recommendations on what pieces and recordings you should listen to. Then, you announced that you are rejecting all the input you received and are just going with _The Rough Guide_ and sorry no offense. Now, you ask what people think of _The Rough Guide's_ recommendations?

Nonetheless, I'll tell you what I really think of those recommendations. They sound perfectly good to me. Enjoy and, once you have listened to them, I would be interested to hear your opinions of them.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I wasn't aware that Mariss Jansons, for all his other virtues, was considered a "great Sibelian". Having said that, I hope you like them.

P.S. There are two Davis/LSO Sibelius sets, the LSO Live one is generally considered to be the better of them.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Becca said:


> I wasn't aware that Mariss Jansons, for all his other virtues, was considered a "great Sibelian". Having said that, I hope you like them.


That's my thinking on Jansons, too. I'll even go further: what exactly was Jansons truly great at? But he's never been in any short list of great Sibelius conductors.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

N Fowleri said:


> I might not quite understand. You solicited recommendations on what pieces and recordings you should listen to. Then, you announced that you are rejecting all the input you received and are just going with _The Rough Guide_ and sorry no offense. Now, you ask what people think of _The Rough Guide's_ recommendations?


I should have been clearer. I only meant which actual pieces to listen to. For recordings, I try and follow _The Rough Guide To Classical Music, _unless a performance isn't sufficiently idiomatic for my taste. I apologise if I hurt your feelings and will be more careful with my future posts.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> That's my thinking on Jansons, too. I'll even go further: what exactly was Jansons truly great at? But he's never been in any short list of great Sibelius conductors.


Mariss Jansons happens to be one of my favourite conductors. For me, he always puts the music first. Nonetheless, there is some music here and there that he's unidiomatic in and he can be too heavy-handed sometimes. Perhaps surprisingly, I think he did well at the New Year's Day Concert, for example.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Becca said:


> There are two Davis/LSO Sibelius sets, the LSO Live one is generally considered to be the better of them.


It's the LSO *Live* set that I will be listening to for the Symphonies Nos 3 and 7.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

N Fowleri said:


> I might not quite understand. You solicited recommendations on what pieces and recordings you should listen to. Then, you announced that you are rejecting all the input you received and are just going with _The Rough Guide_ and sorry no offense. Now, you ask what people think of _The Rough Guide's_ recommendations?
> 
> Nonetheless, I'll tell you what I really think of those recommendations. They sound perfectly good to me. Enjoy and, once you have listened to them, I would be interested to hear your opinions of them.


It's a pattern I see on these TC forums that people who are new to classical music or new to certain composers come here to get advice and are then bombarded with more recommendations than anyone could handle. It's all well-meaning I'm sure, and as people who are classical music fanatics of course we are drawn to sharing our opinions every chance we get especially since off-line the genre only finds like-minded people in places few and far between. At least that's true in the circle of people I see day-to-day.

When I think back to my own beginnings as I tried to navigate my way through classical music; it was the early 1980s and I was just a teenager. I had no musical literacy beyond the basics, and a lot was mystifying to me. Apart from going to high school, and falling asleep in class, and just getting by with a C average; I worked a lot of part-time jobs delivering newspapers, washing dishes in a local Italian restaurant, and pulling the weeds out of the neighbors' back yards. I spent every last dime of the two or three dollars I was making per hour on classical records. I searched high and low in used record stores and in the bargain bins of the stores that sold new records looking for something that might be interesting. While the internet and on-line shopping creates the advantage of being able to sample and order anything I want; sometimes I miss the days when it wasn't that easy because you never knew what you might find even at a flea market or yard sale.

One Christmas my mother, who was not a fan of classical music but none-the-less supported my interest in it, bought me a copy of Harold Schonberg's wonderful _Lives of the Great Composers_ and that sort of became my guide book. Now, almost forty years later that book is long since worn out, with broken binding, and pages falling out; but I read it and re-read it so many times that I've committed parts of it to memory. But the Schonberg book always gave me a point of reference and an idea as to where to go next. Even so, the framework was loose and not rigid; and as I built my classical music library I rarely set out to do things chronologically or by-the-book, but I rather allowed myself to skip around like the moody teenager I was: happy Haydn one day, brooding Shostakovich the next.

The point I'm making here is that sometimes you just have to be willing to let yourself get lost; to go this way and that way; to climb high mountains, cross lonely deserts, sometimes walking in circles, and sometimes following dead end streets, old country roads, and back alleys.

Sometimes you come across something like Bach's _St. Matthew Passion, _Wagner's _Ring Cycle, or _Bartok's_ String Quartets; _and even though you read that this is supposed to be some kind of great masterpiece, you remain feeling overwhelmed and mystified by something that seems so wide, and so deep, and so dense; like a neutron star where just one spoonful has the weight of ten battleships. After making a sincere effort and even after several hearings; you still wonder how you will ever be able make sense of it; but then something clicks and you see why they call it so great.

Sometimes you find a composer like Roy Harris, Walter Piston, William Schuman, or Ulysses Kay; who never quite caught on with the public; but you've managed to find something to like in them and even if the music is too academic, or too derivative, or too lacking in catchy melodies; you still appreciate the sincerity, the hard work, and occasionally you see flashes of genius in what they have to say. Besides, you enjoy cheering for the underdog and while you recognize the greatnes of Bach, Mozaart, Beethoven, and the rest of the heavy-hitters, you like going off the beaten path now and then.

And then sometimes you across a composer like Varese or Xenakis, Carter and Cage; and you say to yourself what Dorothy said to her dog Toto in _The Wizard of Oz_, "Now I know we're not in Kansas anymore."

But that's part of the fun and to me that's what classical music is all about.


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## N Fowleri (5 mo ago)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I should have been clearer. I only meant which actual pieces to listen to. For recordings, I try and follow _The Rough Guide To Classical Music, _unless a performance isn't sufficiently idiomatic for my taste. I apologise if I hurt your feelings and will be more careful with my future posts.


No, I apologize. I think I genuinely misunderstood what were you were initially seeking. It is 100% reasonable to seek only input on what compositions people recommend while you already have a trusted source for recommendations on particular recordings. You may know that the book matches your taste in recordings, but doesn't given adequate guidance about which ones to try first. Again, that is on me for not understanding.



Coach G said:


> It's a pattern I see on these TC forums that people who are new to classical music or new to certain composers come here to get advice and are then bombarded with more recommendations than anyone could handle. It's all well-meaning I'm sure, and as people who are classical music fanatics of course we are drawn to sharing our opinions every chance we get especially since off-line the genre only finds like-minded people in places few and far between. At least that's true in the circle of people I see day-today.


I very much appreciate your post. Although I am not new to classical music, I don't have much knowledge or experience.

I actually found TalkClassical.com when I was searching for reviews of Beethoven symphony cycles. I find it educational and enjoyable to hear multiple recordings of the same works. It helps me to understand what the composer contributes and what the conductor and orchestra contribute. It was really @Merl 's posts on Beethoven symphony cycles that brought me here. So, people should blame him for my presence. 

I have found the recommendations on TalkClassical.com extremely helpful. It is helpful to see the range of views. It is helpful to see when large numbers of people recommend the same recording of a particular work. It is helpful to see when there is no consensus at all about which is the best recording. Of course, as one tries out the suggestions of different people, one starts to see whose tastes seem to match one's own.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like to get to know Sibelius's music better; so far, I only know the Violin Concerto, Finlandia, and The Swan Of Tuonela. Where should I go next; the tone poems, or the symphonies? Please recommend single CDs only, rather than sets, explaining why you think your particular chosen version of a work is great. For a heads-up, I am drawn to the symphony cycle with Pietari Inkinen on Naxos, but you might have different opinions, so please share them with me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Louis Solomons



With current pricing for classical music "box sets" whether as CDs or as downloads, the price of the entire set is often not much more, and occasionally even less than a single "disc"! Do not dismiss box sets out of hand. I can highly recommend the entire sets by Vanska/Lahti, Blomstedt/San Francisco and Ormandy/Philadelphia.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Coach G said:


> It's a pattern I see on these TC forums that people who are new to classical music or new to certain composers come here to get advice and are then bombarded with more recommendations than anyone could handle.


yes, one will especially get the impression that the interpretation/recording makes a lot of difference and one should get "the right one". I think this is wildly exaggerated. Sure, sometimes it can matter and especially for music until the mid/late 18th century we have by now very different approaches. 
But I struggle to think of clear cases where I had, as a beginner, or even as a relative beginner, i.e. encountering e.g. Sibelius' symphonies after about 8 or more years of listening to other classical music, difficulties _because_ of a particular interpretation recording. (I remember some, e.g. the fast and brassy Schubert C major with Karajan was probably part of my problems with the piece but this was an exception.)
A better case could be made that e.g. Tapiola, the 4th symphony or Kullervo are not the best first stops for Sibelius but rather more popular pieces. But usually one will encounter the popular pieces (here Finlandia, violin concerto, 2nd symphony etc.) first and this will usually "work" to appreciate the composer. And if not, nowadays on youtube one can just casually listen to a different interpretation or a different piece.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> yes, one will especially get the impression that the interpretation/recording makes a lot of difference and one should get "the right one". I think this is wildly exaggerated. Sure, sometimes it can matter and especially for music until the mid/late 18th century we have by now very different approaches.
> But I struggle to think of clear cases where I had, as a beginner, or even as a relative beginner, i.e. encountering e.g. Sibelius' symphonies after about 8 or more years of listening to other classical music, difficulties _because_ of a particular interpretation recording. (I remember some, e.g. the fast and brassy Schubert C major with Karajan was probably part of my problems with the piece but this was an exception.)
> A better case could be made that e.g. Tapiola, the 4th symphony or Kullervo are not the best first stops for Sibelius but rather more popular pieces. But usually one will encounter the popular pieces (here Finlandia, violin concerto, 2nd symphony etc.) first and this will usually "work" to appreciate the composer. And if not, nowadays on youtube one can just casually listen to a different interpretation or a different piece.


I agree. The worst interpetation of a Sibelius symphony that comes to mind is Bernstein doing the 3rd with New York Philharmonic. The same with Maazel/Vienna, the 3rd. Those versions are just WRONG. But even those two fail to totally ruin the music.

(Which is the opposite of Mahler where actually most conductors succeed in somehow ruining the music. Mahler is such an enormous challenge.)


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Waehnen said:


> I agree. The worst interpetation of a Sibelius symphony that comes to mind is Bernstein doing the 3rd with New York Philharmonic. The same with Maazel/Vienna, the 3rd. Those versions are just WRONG.


 - those are my 2 favorite versions of Sibelius #3!!


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Heck148 said:


> - those are my 2 favorite versions of Sibelius #3!!


Really? Then I am sorry. 😃

If you want a faster version of the 3rd, I would strongly suggest switching the aforementioned to Järvi/Gothenburg/DG or Rattle/Berlin or Blomstedt/San Francisco. 😁


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Waehnen said:


> Really? Then I am sorry. 😃
> 
> If you want a faster version of the 3rd, I would strongly suggest switching the aforementioned to Järvi/Gothenburg/DG or Rattle/Berlin or Blomstedt/San Francisco. 😁


I'd like to hear Blomstedt/SFSO....his #2 with SFSO is very fine...


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Heck148 said:


> I'd like to hear Blomstedt/SFSO....his #2 with SFSO is very fine...


If I were a teacher and had to play on version of the 3rd to the students, it would be the Blomstedt/SFSO version. Rattle is more artistic -- but with Blomstedt everything works and sounds just wonderful. Very convincing. I like convincing. Järvi is the European version of the Blomstedt approach.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

It always strikes me as funny that Sibelius 3 can be done in two completely different ways, and still be successful either way. You can play it like the first 2 symphonies, emphasizing the romantic aspects and going for a dark sound - or do the opposite and turn it into a bright-eyed neoclassical piece.
My first 3rd was Okko Kamu's, coupled with the 1st on a DG cd, and it's of the light and bright kind. Still a very powerful performance. But when I tried Kurt Sanderling's 3rd later, it was like I was listening to another composition.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

RobertJTh said:


> It always strikes me as funny that Sibelius 3 can be done in two completely different ways, and still be successful either way. You can play it like the first 2 symphonies, emphasizing the romantic aspects and going for a dark sound - or do the opposite and turn it into a bright-eyed neoclassical piece.
> My first 3rd was Okko Kamu's, coupled with the 1st on a DG cd, and it's of the light and bright kind. Still a very powerful performance. But when I tried Kurt Sanderling's 3rd later, it was like I was listening to another composition.


I will check those two. Haven´t found the Kamu from iTunes so far. The Sanderling is now playing from youtube (after quickly checking the Kamu), and I much prefer the 1st movement by Sanderling. I really like the 3rd this dark. Sounds good indeed. Strings are thick and full of expression. Wonderful.

(Damn -- just when I had promised myself not to buy records for a little while.)


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Deleted post, sorry.


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## Hogwash (5 mo ago)

I'm waiting on pins and needles for my reserved copy of this to arrive at the library:


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

For Symphonies 1 - 6, I have the recordings with Vladimir Ashkenazy conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. For the Second Symphony though, I have him with the Boston Symphony.


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