# Beethoven - Op. 123 - Missa Solemnis



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

If you have not voted in the poll Best Dramatic Film Score - 1996 for my competition yet, it's your last chance.


How do you rate this piece?

Performed by the Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra and Choir
Conductor: Herbert Kegel
Organ: Joachim Dalitz
Soprano: Enriqueta Tarrés
Alto: Violetta Madjarova
Tenor: Sergej Larin
Bass: Kurt Rydl


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Beethoven considered it his best work, and I have no reason to doubt his verdict.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

In my view the Missa Solemnis is an outstanding piece of music, perhaps the greatest work of it's genre created in the 19th century. I love, love this work, and have several performances of it. My favorite movements are the Sanctus and the Gloria, followed by the Credo and the Kyrie. The only moment of the mass that to my ears is less than superb is the Dona Nobis Pacem, and I wish that Beethoven had not included that military march in it. I rate it as a 9.5 out of 10 in terms of how much I enjoy it.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It's an incredibly intense work, especially in a live performance. 12/10.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Clearly it is a masterpeice, one of the greatest works ever written. In form it is the pinnacle of religious music with only Verdi's and Mozart's Requia and the latter's Mass in C minor able to be mentioned in the same phrase. Some of Haydn's Masses might be mentioned too but none is its equal.

It is to similar religious music what Beethoven's "Emporer" is to other piano concertos and his Ninth Symphony to other symphonies. It transcends everything else -- remarkably so here _spiritually_ as well as musically.

I have performed this in concert. It is with J.S. Bach's St. Matthew Passion the most difficult piece of music I ever encountered as a singer. Beethoven expects the same leaps from singers he expects from instruments. The "mental illness" sequence near the finale is among his most unusual sequences.

The one thing I like most about it is the soloists do not make or break the performance. Neither does the choir or the orchestra. It is so great is it better than any of its parts. I have heard recordings that were terrible, where the timing was way off and the orchestra was ahead of the chorus, and it still sounded better than any other work.

There is no greatest performance; it is such a monument it can stand any variety of approaches. Some of the recordings I've found most enjoyable over 50 years are Bernstein-Concertgebouw, Gunther Wand in Cologne, and Ken Schermerhorn's performance from Nashville, Tenn. (!) on Naxos. I also enjoyed John Gardiner's period recording. It's hard to find a version without something good you can relate.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

larold said:


> In form it is the pinnacle of religious music with only Verdi's and Mozart's Requia and the latter's Mass in C minor able to be mentioned in the same phrase. Some of Haydn's Masses might be mentioned too


Considering your preference for scale of works and the idiom, I think you might also want to try Missa hispanica (1786), which has heart-wrenching harmonies in the Kyrie, and long drawn-out melodies reminiscent of Romanticism in its various sections such as the Et incarnatus est and Agnus dei.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Despite my username I didn’t actually realise this was his Op.123. Wonderful work though, the Toscanini recording with Milanov, Castagna, Björling and Kipnis is the one to get. Peerless.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

. When it’s not bombastic it’s tearfully sentimental.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> . When it’s not bombastic it’s tearfully sentimental.


I think it's very intense and evocative of strong emotions, but not bombastic nor sentimental. Maybe you're listening to the wrong performances. I suggest Bernstein, Giulini or Toscanini for this mass.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

As someone who rarely listens to choral or vocal music and for whom religious music of any kind holds virtually no appeal, I have to plead ignorance, as well as disinterest, despite the composer being one of my absolute favorite composers.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I love it, such a great piece from begin till end. 
I love the Karjan recording in DG , the live Bernstein from Amsterdam , Solti does a good job .
Bernstein on Sony is my absolute favourite.


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## Scherzi Cat (8 mo ago)

I know that a lot of people put it up there with Beethoven's greatest works, but I disagree. It's very good, but not excellent like most of his symphonies.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I am a huge Beethoven fan and absolutely love all of his symphonies, most of his string quartets, piano sonatas, concertos and chamber music. But the Missa simply does not do it for me. I still recognize it as excellent music but it isn't something I want to listen to. There are beautiful moments in it, no doubt, but most of it bores me. I feel the same way about pretty much all religious music. Love Brahms, don't care for his Requiem. Love Bach's keyboard and other secular output, don't care for his religious music.

The problem with religious music, as with opera, is that there is just too much singing.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It seems the most incommensurable of Beethoven's major works because even more than Fidelio it is not quite as universally admired and people struggle with it. I think this is an indication that it's even more extraordinary than his instrumental works. But if one just doesn't like most or any music with singing it's not very surprising or significant that they don't like this one either.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Op.123 said:


> Despite my username I didn’t actually realise this was his Op.123.


Which work inspired your user name then?
Schumann's Rheinweinlied-Ouverture?
Reger's Konzert im alten Stil?
Saint-Saens' 2nd Cello Sonata?


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

I think it is beautiful.
My favorite at this point is this recording


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

RobertJTh said:


> Which work inspired your user name then?
> Schumann's Rheinweinlied-Ouverture?
> Reger's Konzert im alten Stil?
> Saint-Saens' 2nd Cello Sonata?


I just typed 123


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Xisten267 said:


> I think it's very intense and evocative of strong emotions, but not bombastic nor sentimental. Maybe you're listening to the wrong performances. I suggest Bernstein, Giulini or Toscanini for this mass.


The first Toscanini, with Kipnis, is worth hearing in the Agnus Dei. But really, I am waiting for an a cappella OVPP version.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Kreisler jr said:


> It seems the most incommensurable of Beethoven's major works because even more than Fidelio it is not quite as universally admired and people struggle with it. I think this is an indication that it's even more extraordinary than his instrumental works. But if one just doesn't like most or any music with singing it's not very surprising or significant that they don't like this one either.


More extraordinary than his instrumental works? Sure. Better than his instrumental works? Absolutely not. (and I'm aware of Beethoven's assessment of this work).


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