# Mind Your Tongue!



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Or, Why did English become the _lingua franca_ of much of the world? It is ill-equipped for the roll. I red someware that one should speak French to one's friends, German two one's enemies, Italian too women, and Spanish to God, butt that Russian did all these as well if knot bettor. But only in English could one report with a strait face that the whether gods had decided to rein in the reign of rain,

Several explanations have bin proposed. One is that bye being a non-inflected language, English did away with awl of the nonsense of gendered nouns and always having to match adjectives to those nouns. This made verbs simple too. And--get this--having one word instead of two, like the nutty _ser _and _estar _of Spanish. Tube bee or not two be--what could be a clearer question?

Another explanation is that English is the result of a shotgun wedding of Anglo Saxon and Norman French, with, at least in 'Murican English, a whole spicerack of Italian, Yiddish, Spanish, and numberless other languages. Sew there is always the proper word for most anything.

Yet another is the enormous--in its day--extent of the British empire, wear people either learned English or forever remained in a fixed and lower class.

But confusion? It's a wonder that anybody not born to English can learn to reed and rite it. Consider if you will the too words _fare_ and _fair_ and then all of the possible meanings of that sound wen herd by someone gnu to the language. It's a wonder English speakers themselves can communicate with won another!

Comments and examples well come.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Because the Spanish Armada failed.
In spite of the British Empire (that was of course an important factor), I'd guesstimate that English only really become the dominant world language around the mid-20th century with the establishment of the American dominance.
Even in the interwar period, French was as or more frequent as a second language (probably more frequent in continental Europe and the Mediterranean). French was the main language of diplomacy and scientific publications were also in French and German as well as in English. (I'd guess that in the time with many fields already publishing in the vernacular, roughly after 1700, French dominated the 18th and early 19th century, in the mid-late 19th century English and German had probably caught up, and there was still quite a bit published in Latin.) I have also seen the theory that English became only dominant in science with the braindrain from Germany in the 1930s and especially the industrialization of many scientific fields that began around the same time (big colliders and stuff) and that was dominated by the richest country, USA.

English is in some ways a horrible lingua franca. Some of the grammar is simple but there is huge vocab because of the complex history, among the worst spelling of all European languages, and rich in idioms. Italian or Spanish would be much better, for pronunciation and orthography alone.

And that joke above I heard about Emperor Charles V. (Holy roman emperor in the early 16th century). He supposedly spoke French with men, Italian with women, Spanish with God and German to his horse...


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

English is a great language but it is being hijacked and stupefied by street slang and idioms. Ignorance and stupidity have become fashionable.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Red Terror said:


> English is a great language but it is being hijacked and stupefied by street slang and idioms. Ignorance and stupidity have become fashionable.


Well, it's probably a reliable indicator of what type of person you're talking to (whether or not they comprehend that). Of course, this might change soon, if it hasn't already. 

We're very probably speaking a 'slang' version of our native language, or some people would say it's been improved by human use, more effecient, more relevant. 

As with jazz, which was at one time a derogatory term, because of blue notes, rhythms, and singing styles. vs ragtime etc.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Here's the complete story about the quote which is attributed to Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor - There are actually two versions -

"I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse" -

"Charles V sometimes used to say: if it was necessary to talk with God, that he would talk in Spanish, which language suggests itself for the graveness and majesty of the Spaniards; if with friends, in Italian, for the dialect of the Italians was one of familiarity; if to caress someone, in French, for no language is tenderer than theirs; if to threaten someone or to speak harshly to them, in German, for their entire language is threatening, rough and vehement"

Source: I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men,…

No matter what the language though, everything sounds better when spoken with an Irish accent - 

.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> No matter what the language though, everything sounds better when spoken with an Irish accent -


Better than what?


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

English became the de facto international language because the US became the number one economic power. If and when China replaces the US in that role, Mandarin will become the de facto international language.

English would be much easier to learn if it used additional punctuation like umlauts, carets and accent marks. That would make pronunciations much less ambiguous.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

To put it in perspective, modern High German was in statu nascendi in Charles V. time. 
And the main factor for establishing it was his enemy's, Luther's bible translation as well as pamphlets and German church music in the Protestant regions. Still, the "lateness" of German literary culture was exacerbated with the Catholic/Protestant split and the devastation of the 30 years war. One indication is that Luther's bible was about 80 years before the King James, but the first great and "classic" era of German literature was only in the late 18th century (Lessing, Goethe, Schiller, and Kant in philosophy). Of course there was earlier (modern) German literature, but nothing from before ca. 1750 would be considered as important as Shakespeare or Milton.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

A "serious" effort to make written English rational and consistent was that undertaken by Dolton Edwards in 1946. It is titled_ Meihem in ce Klasrum _and is fun reading. See how far you get.

Meihem In Ce Klasrum, by Dolton Edwards


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Strange Magic said:


> A "serious" effort to make written English rational and consistent was that undertaken by Dolton Edwards in 1946. It is titled_ Meihem in ce Klasrum _and is fun reading. See how far you get.
> 
> Meihem In Ce Klasrum, by Dolton Edwards


I laik it, when do we begin?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Why English? Well, it renders the name "The Beatles" and the common newspaper riddle (meant only to be spoken, never written) "What's black and white and 'red' all over" as virtually untranslatable. 

"Reigns that rein in rains" aside, puns have a power in English which the great poets have long recognized. Shakespeare reigns as the master. When Mercutio (in _Romeo and Juliet_) refers to Benvolio as a "heartless hind", the resonances are many. Like the above riddle, some words cannot be spelled out but only pronounced. "Heartless hinds" may indeed be "cruel or uncaring rearends" (I'm not sure the "a" word would compute on this website), but of course to English ears a "hart" is a buck deer (male) and a "hind" is a female deer. A female deer without a male companion is a "hartless hind". If one considers that a "hind" can also refer to a gay man, we can hear what Mercutio is actually saying of Benvolio, of whom a close reading of the play will show has a great affection for his cousin Romeo, an affection beyond Platonic cousinly love. Indeed, Benvolio's name derives from the Italian verb "to have affection for", and Shakespeare, who may have had "little Latin and less Greek" certainly had some command of the Italian tongue.

So, why not English? It generally works for me.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Eye halve enjoyed awl the posts in reply sew far. Watts knot two like? 

I think that each explanation of the widespread use of English given so far collectively account for the predominance of the language.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Red Terror said:


> I laik it, when do we begin?


Yeah, you know what I mean, it's like, like awesome. You know what I mean, I mean, you know what I'm saying, it's like...I dunno..


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> *A "serious" effort to make written English rational and consistent *was that undertaken by Dolton Edwards in 1946. It is titled_ Meihem in ce Klasrum _and is fun reading. See how far you get.
> 
> Meihem In Ce Klasrum, by Dolton Edwards


It looks more difficult than it really is - All it takes is a little bit of practice - This is Lincoln's Gettysburg Address -

"Fair fa’ your honest, sonsie face,
Great Chieftain o’ the Puddin-race!
Aboon them a’ ye tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm:
Weel are ye wordy of a _grace_
As lang ‘s my arm.

Then, horn for horn, they stretch an’ strive:
Deil tak the hindmost, on they drive,
Till a’ their weel-swall’d kytes belyve
Are bent like drums;
Then auld Guidman, maist like to rive,
_Bethankit_ hums.

Ye Pow’rs wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o’ fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware
That jaups in luggies;
But, if ye wish her gratefu’ prayer,
Gie her a _Haggis_!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

French was the official court language in England well into the middle ages, and on certain occasions far later. Apparently the first post-conquest monarch who could actually converse in English was Edward III and that was as late as the mid-14th century. Even the 18th century Hanoverian king of England George II conversed with and wrote to his wife in French, as did the Russian Tsars until later still. 

French is a more glamourous language and flows off the tongue better than the more guttural English (even with all the loanwords which the Normans and Angevins thrust upon it) ever could. The Normans and Plantagenets considered themselves a cut above, and back then the Old English language was marginalised as being the language of a subjugated race. Anyone who reads even the most basic of sentences in Modern English can discern some Latin origins thanks to the distortions of time. Otherwise, I would say that modern English is closer to Dutch than anything else.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

N


Shaughnessy said:


> It looks more difficult than it really is - All it takes is a little bit of practice - This is Lincoln's Gettysburg Address -
> 
> "Fair fa’ your honest, sonsie face,
> Great Chieftain o’ the Puddin-race!
> ...


Now you've made me hungry, you swine...


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Becca said:


> Better than what?


Than anything not spoken with an Irish accent, _Sasanach... _


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> Than anything not spoken with an Irish accent, _Sasanach... _


Ohh y Gwyddel, fel rhech mewn pot jam 😁


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Becca said:


> Ohh y Gwyddel, fel rhech mewn pot jam 😁


Iesu Mawr! - Rhechan fel ci defaid ar jaen gwta - Cer i grafu, merch Saesneg -


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer, Deer, such language!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ezra Pound's contribution: *Winter is Icummen In*

*Winter is icummen in,
Lhude sing Goddamm,
Raineth drop and staineth slop
And how the wind doth ramm!
Sing: Goddamm.
Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us,
An ague hath my ham.
Freezeth river, turneth liver
Damn you, sing: Goddamm.
Goddamm, Goddamm, tis why I am,
Goddamm.
So 'gainst the winter's balm
Sing Goddamm, damm, sing Goddamm
Sing Goddamm, sing Goddamm,
DAMM.*


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

When I moved up to Scotland from Manchester I thought I had enough experience of the Scottish accent to cope with understanding the Scottish equivalent of the English language but I was unprepared for quite how many words the Scots add to their own unique vocabulary. There are probably an extra 100,000 words added to your average Glaswegian or Fifer's vocab that many poor Englishmen fail to understand. Also, if you're visiting Scotland and you've stayed in a pub for a little too long you may use nearly any made-up term to mean "I am/was drunk." 🍺🍻🍷🥂🥃


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Red Terror said:


> English is a great language but it is being hijacked and stupefied by street slang and idioms. Ignorance and stupidity have become fashionable.


I am torn between lamenting the ghastly neologisms forced upon us purists, and accepting the truth that language is organic: it's in a constant state of change and like Cnut before the incoming tide, we cannot resist.

Besides, if language should be a democratic tool of communication, it can't be owned by those who wish it to be fixed in some mythical era when there was no slang and everyone observed their Oxford Commas and avoided their split infinitives.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

I care not for language ,to me it's just raw communication


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

An English squire was addressing his guests at the dinner table on the singular pith and accuracy of the English language. Picking up a utensil from the table, he held it aloft and said:

"The Germans call this a _Messer._
The French call this a _couteau. _
The Spanish call this a _cuchillo._
But we English, we call it a knife, and by Jingo, That's just what it is!"


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Forster said:


> I am torn between lamenting the ghastly neologisms forced upon us purists, and accepting the truth that language is organic: it's in a constant state of change and like Cnut before the incoming tide, we cannot resist.
> 
> Besides, if language should be a democratic tool of communication, it can't be owned by those who wish it to be fixed in some mythical era when there was no slang and everyone observed their Oxford Commas and avoided their split infinitives.


Such as the Académie Française?


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Red Terror said:


> English is a great language but it is being hijacked and stupefied by street slang and idioms. Ignorance and stupidity have become fashionable.


Such with every language,they all have changed through slang and accentation ,actually Noam Chomsky one suggested that although people surely use sounds to communicate,"language does not exist" 
And he is actually right.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Becca said:


> *Such as the Académie Française?*


Or even worse - the Académie irlandaise...


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

A long time ago, Greek was the language of scholarly writing.

then the Romans made Latin the official language....because they could

Then after Rome got sacked, the only people who could read and write were a few monks, so Latin was still the language of literate people

After the advent of the printing press, German because the official language of academics. I think mostly because the really important work was all written in German to start with. I mean, its hard to go around Kant, isn't it?

Then after the war the language of academics became English because the English speakers won

so it seems like if you want your language to be the official language, you have to get out there and do it the old fashioned way and win a few battles. Then when you do the peace treaty, put in a few lines about your language being the official one, and off you go


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Becca said:


> Such as the Académie Française?


So, how successful have they been over the past, say, 100 years? They've failed to stop 'le weekend' from use in France and they continue to struggle against the tide.

Académie Française denounces rise of English words in public life | France | The Guardian


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> Or even worse - the Académie irlandaise...


The Irish Academy speaks French?!


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Becca said:


> The Irish Academy speaks French?!


Precisely! That's what the problem is!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Merl said:


> When I moved up to Scotland from Manchester I thought I had enough experience of the Scottish accent to cope with understanding the Scottish equivalent of the English language but I was unprepared for quite how many words the Scots add to their own unique vocabulary. There are probably an extra 100,000 words added to your average Glaswegian or Fifer's vocab that many poor Englishmen fail to understand. Also, if you're visiting Scotland and you've stayed in a pub for a little too long you may use nearly any made-up term to mean "I am/was drunk." 🍺🍻🍷🥂🥃


One of my favourites is ‘blootered’. As in ‘I am totally blootered!’ And also ‘fleein’’ as in ‘I am absolutely fleein’ min!’


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Lovers of wordsmithing will enjoy thoroughly reading the slender volume entitled_ N'Heures Souris Rames: The Coucy Castle Manuscript_, as translated from the Medieval French and copiously and painfully annotated by Ormond de Kay. We are offered a selection of short poems of the period and their translations into modern English, and must rely upon Mr. de Kay's expertise in order to deal with the archaic French and understand the many references peculiar to the time and place. Note: if you speak, read, or write perfect French (I do not), you may be even more astounded at de Kay's scholarship than I.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> One of my favourites is ‘blootered’. As in ‘I am totally blootered!’ And also ‘fleein’’ as in ‘I am absolutely fleein’ min!’


You could add - 'wrecked', 'aff ma face/puss', 'smashed', 'trollied', 'steamin', 'bladdered', 'mortal', 'rat ar*ed', 'leathered', and while 'pissed' in the US tends, I believe, to mean really annoyed in Ecosse it means drunk - all this talk has made me thirsty so I'm away for a glass of Adam's Ale.

I had to edit the part of the rat's anatomy referred to


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Nate Miller said:


> A long time ago, Greek was the language of scholarly writing.
> 
> then the Romans made Latin the official language....because they could
> 
> ...


Don't forget that the Greeks got (at least ) there Alpha Bet from the Phoenicians which came from Proto-Sinaitic


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

It may be true that English may become a world language,I think the Netherlands is thinking of changing there official language from Dutch to English.
But of coarse English will fragment into sub-dialects and were back to square one.

Boston already has street signs that say "Use Yah Blinkah" so English is already fragmenting,so it looks like Chomsky is right in that language does not exist.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

A famous article in a scientific journal on nuclear reactions in the sun was authored by physicists Alpher, Bethe, and Gamow.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

bagpipers said:


> Don't forget that the Greeks got (at least ) there Alpha Bet from the Phoenicians which came from Proto-Sinaitic


yes, good you brought that up. I believe they were the same people who also invented window blinds


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Fastest pronunciation in the West---how can anyone speak so rapidly?


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Nate Miller said:


> yes, good you brought that up. I believe they were the same people who also invented window blinds


Fragments of Deuteronomy-27 ,so far oldest fragment of Torah found.Dated 13th century BCE in Proto-Sinaitic found in Israel about 6 months ago.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Becca said:


> *The Irish Academy speaks French?!*


The _Académie irlandaise_ also known as the Irish Academy, is the principal Irish council for matters pertaining to the Irish language.

The _Académie_ is Ireland's official authority on the usages, vocabulary, and grammar of the Irish language.

The _Académie_ publishes a dictionary of the Irish language, known as the _Dictionnaire de l'Académie irlandaise _which is regarded as official in Ireland but is largely ignored in Norn Iron out of pure spite.

The _Académie irlandaise_ is responsible for awarding several different prizes in various fields - The most important prize is the _Grand prix de la hibernophonie_. Other important prizes include the _Grand Prix de Littérature de l'Académie irlandaise_, and the _Grand prix de poésie de l'Académie irlandaise._

As the use of English terms by media increased over the years, the _Académie_ has tried to prevent the Anglicization of the Irish language. For example, the _Académie_ has recommended the avoidance of loanwords from modern English (such as _pillock, plonker, charlie, noddy, wally, and berk_) in favor of good old-fashioned Irish words (_bodach, bosthoon, jackeen, omadhaun, gobshite, and feckin' eejit_).


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

bagpipers said:


> Fragments of Deuteronomy-27 ,so far oldest fragment of Torah found.Dated 13th century BCE in Proto-Sinaitic found in Israel about 6 months ago.


Are you talking about Dr. Stripling's discovery on Mount Ebal?


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> Don't forget that the Greeks got (at least ) there Alpha Bet from the Phoenicians which came from Proto-Sinaitic


their


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> The _Académie irlandaise_ also known as the Irish Academy, is the principal Irish council for matters pertaining to the Irish language.
> 
> The _Académie_ is Ireland's official authority on the usages, vocabulary, and grammar of the Irish language.
> 
> ...


I don't know if you're serious.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Nate Miller said:


> A long time ago, Greek was the language of scholarly writing.
> 
> then the Romans made Latin the official language....because they could
> 
> ...


its is possessive, it's is never possessive


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> A famous article in a scientific journal on nuclear reactions in the sun was authored by physicists Alpher, Bethe, and Gamow.


Actually including Hans Bethe's name was a mischievous addition.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Luchesi said:


> its is possessive, it's is never possessive


No? How about, "It's mine!"?


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> Are you talking about Dr. Stripling's discovery on Mount Ebal?


Yes precisely.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> their


Yea I always forget to differentiate


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Forster said:


> No? How about, "It's mine!"?


pretty funny..


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> Yea I always forget to differentiate


A quick estimation of the level of 'seriousness' of a person can by had by whether or not they're miffed by a grammar Nazi, they say.

But I would only be like that in a thread like this. In my field I say let English continue to morph/expand and adapt. Trough and monsoon are terms which my customers have trouble with. They naturally make assumptions due to misunderstandings.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> A quick estimation of the level of 'seriousness' of a person can by had by whether or not they're miffed by a grammar Nazi, they say.
> 
> But I would only be like that in a thread like this. In my field I say let English continue to morph/expand and adapt. Trough and monsoon are terms which my customers have trouble with. They naturally make assumptions due to misunderstandings.





Luchesi said:


> A quick estimation of the level of 'seriousness' of a person can by had by whether or not they're miffed by a grammar Nazi, they say.
> 
> But I would only be like that in a thread like this. In my field I say let English continue to morph/expand and adapt. Trough and monsoon are terms which my customers have trouble with. They naturally make assumptions due to misunderstandings.


It's to damn little to damn late to phoneticize English ,so I'd guess we'd just best run with the ball.I have thought it might be fun to Semeticize English and get rid of the vowels,and then "Boutique" could be spelled like this "btk" with a couple dots underneath.Not sure anyone would go for that though.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> It's to damn little to damn late to phoneticize English ,so I'd guess we'd just best run with the ball.I have thought it might be fun to Semeticize English and get rid of the vowels,and then "Boutique" could be spelled like this "btk" with a couple dots underneath.Not sure anyone would go for that though.


Yes, interesting.
I suspect that there are real advantages for English to be the way it is, at this time, for our uses. I'd have to ask someone who's studied it much more than I have. 

When I worked in Athens Greece, my kids went to the embassy school, and their little friends of course spoke Greek, but they fervently wanted to learn (useful) English. They spoke some British English, but they wanted American English (they heard it on TV). 
Anyway, I was very surprised about how much Greek my kids learned to speak in 4 years. It came so easily to them, it seemed to me. I've learned that I have little aptitude for languages.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> Why did English become the _lingua franca_ of much of the world?


The Crusades.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Luchesi said:


> Anyway, I was very surprised about how much Greek my kids learned to speak in 4 years. It came so easily to them, it seemed to me. I've learned that I have little aptitude for languages.


NOBODY does, after the critical period of brain development when that part of the brain is making new connections. It lasts from like, ages 1-10?


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> Yes, interesting.
> I suspect that there are real advantages for English to be the way it is, at this time, for our uses. I'd have to ask someone who's studied it much more than I have.
> 
> When I worked in Athens Greece, my kids went to the embassy school, and their little friends of course spoke Greek, but they fervently wanted to learn (useful) English. They spoke some British English, but they wanted American English (they heard it on TV).
> Anyway, I was very surprised about how much Greek my kids learned to speak in 4 years. It came so easily to them, it seemed to me. I've learned that I have little aptitude for languages.


Learning young is the key to language.I started Hebrew at age 22 and that was 25 years ago and I'm still working.Had I started at age 7 I'd been fluent in two years.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

NoCoPilot said:


> The Crusades.


In the crusade period Latin and French were on top and Greek too because Constantinople was still big.In the Crusades period only illilerate's spoke middle English.English was not even the language of England until 1550.

I would say more around the Victorian era English became so popular


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

NoCoPilot said:


> NOBODY does, after the critical period of brain development when that part of the brain is making new connections. It lasts from like, ages 1-10?


One of the 11 year olds at school was born in Lithuania. He speaks Lithuanian, English and Russian fluently and can speak some Polish. Interestingly he only speaks in his native tongue when in the company of his family and refuses to even speak a word of it to the teachers at school even if we pester him for basic greetings. I once learned how to say hello in his language and greeted him when he came into school. He looked almost annoyed when I said it, even though I ensured my pronunciation was good. I've never bothered since. Lol.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> Learning young is the key to language.I started Hebrew at age 22 and that was 25 years ago and I'm still working.Had I started at age 7 I'd been fluent in two years.


I find teaching youngsters, that it's a similar concept in music. 

Motivated adult beginners are quite hard on themselves. They seem to need to tear down 'accrued bad habits'. Brain pain. Kids are immature, but they're sponges.

getting back to the op;

Classical music lookalikes - composers and their celebrity doppelgängers
• Bach and Brian May. ... 
• Grieg and Albert Einstein. ... 
• Mozart and George Osborne. ... 
• Puccini and Freddie Mercury. ... 
• Debussy and Ricky Gervais. ... 
• Shostakovich and Harry Potter. ... 
• Poulenc and Bruce Forsyth. ... 
• Schubert and Krishnan Guru-Murthy.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> I find teaching youngsters, that it's a similar concept in music.
> 
> Motivated adult beginners are quite hard on themselves. They seem to need to tear down 'accrued bad habits'. Brain pain. Kids are immature, but they're sponges.
> 
> ...


Music is very hard later in life: Guitar/Piano by thirty and winds by 15 and Violin/Viola by 6 for there are small muscles that must develop by 6 maybe 7 absolute latest or else all is lost.But Cello and Double Bass can be done in ones 20's


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> Music is very hard later in life: Guitar/Piano by thirty and winds by 15 and Violin/Viola by 6 for there are small muscles that must develop by 6 maybe 7 absolute latest or else all is lost.But Cello and Double Bass can be done in ones 20's


Very good, that aligns well with my experience.

But my adult beginners wish they hadn't quit piano lessons so young, but then they didn't think they had time until they were 40, 50 or retired. Now they're really into it, but they might assume it's like learning to ride a bike (which it is, but only in a few aspects). 
They need to not give up. It takes 3 or 4 years learn use a new language, so I try to convince them. Each breakthrough accelerates them further along, easier and easier.

back to op;
Wolfgang had six children, only Karl and Franz Xavier survived. No grandchildren. There are no Mozart descendants.

oops wrong thread, sorry


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> Very good, that aligns well with my experience.
> 
> But my adult beginners wish they hadn't quit piano lessons so young, but then they didn't think they had time until they were 40, 50 or retired. Now they're really into it, but they might assume it's like learning to ride a bike (which it is, but only in a few aspects).
> They need to not give up. It takes 3 or 4 years learn use a new language, so I try to convince them. Each breakthrough accelerates them further along, easier and easier.
> ...


What instruments do you teach,is it just you or are you part of a music school.

I have a friend who has his own music school both kids and adults ,he doesn't get rich but gets by.He is trained as a classical guitarist ,I used to take lessons from him 35 years ago but since I decided 25 years ago to focus only on composition I just play piano.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> What instruments do you teach,is it just you or are you part of a music school.
> 
> I have a friend who has his own music school both kids and adults ,he doesn't get rich but gets by.He is trained as a classical guitarist ,I used to take lessons from him 35 years ago but since I decided 25 years ago to focus only on composition I just play piano.


I've made a living as a meteorologist (contract work most of the time). I've been sent all over the world, and I've tried to save young families money - teaching piano part time and tuning pianos. It can get me in trouble with the Piano Guild in the States though.
I've been affiliated with the local universities, tuning contracts and referrals and concerts.


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