# Good Places to Learn and Talk about Music



## SilverstreakBlue (Apr 28, 2021)

I didn't grow up listening to a lot of classical music, and am just beginning to listen and explore. At this point, I want to listen and learn as much as I can about music.

I had a couple of questions:

1. It would be great to know about some place, where there is discourse on or discussion about music. What would you recommend the best place is: communities and forums like this one; reading some good books on the subject; some music blogs/websites; or magazines? Or some combination of these?

2. If you have any recommendations for good books, and forums (apart from this forum), it would be great to know them. If the recommendations list is too long, please drop it in the dm if you like!
Similarly for good blogs/websites/magazines.

Often what happens is - I listen to a new piece (and right now, mostly everything is new to me), and want to know what others have said or thought about it. What they appreciate in it. And sometimes to talk about it myself. Often this helps me understand things that I had liked, but without fully realising why; things I had picked up without full understanding, and those that I had missed. And I often also learn some of the elements/technicalities, and the "jargon" about the music. (I am learning music theory separately in my spare time - mostly from Youtube).

Any answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!​


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> If you have any recommendations for good books, and forums (apart from this forum), it would be great to know them.


Welcome to Talk Classical SilverstreakBlue! Please note that recommendations of other classical music forums is not allowed (see the Terms of Service). But I'm sure you will find plenty information on this site.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

The best place is this this forum as it covers a lot of genres and a lot of personal likes and dislikes, there used to be a lot of forums for classical music but for some reason they have dwindled down to a handful at most and this one seems to be the busiest.
Anyway welcome and enjoy...


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

A book which was important to me when I first was getting into classical music was _Lives of the Great Composers_ by Harold C. Schonberg. It is still available, although a little pricey. Others have found this valuable: _The 50 Greatest Composers and Their 1,000 Greatest Works_ by Phil Goulding.

But the only method that will last you a lifetime is the long and winding personal road of discovery.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Welcome. There are some good books by eminent musicologists on great composers. Dr. Christoph Wolff for example is an authority on Bach. I'm not sure which composers you might be particularly interested in but I prefer to read in depth about the great composers rather than one book about the top number of them.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Since you are at the start of the journey, this thread might be of interest:

A Beginner's Guide to Classical Music


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Welcome to the site. It's a lot of fun here, and some very knowledgeable folks too. We are all in love with music, and it makes for a great community.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

SanAntone said:


> A book which was important to me when I first was getting into classical music was _Lives of the Great Composers_ by Harold C. Schonberg. It is still available, although a little pricey. Others have found this valuable: _The 50 Greatest Composers and Their 1,000 Greatest Works_ by Phil Goulding.
> 
> But the only method that will last you a lifetime is the long and winding personal road of discovery.


An addendum to my previous post would be to suggest *Alex Ros*s's blog and book both titled _The Rest is Noise_. Ross is a excellent writer, his style will end up inspiring you to listen to the music he describes, which includes much of the best music from the 20th century.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> I didn't grow up listening to a lot of classical music, and am just beginning to listen and explore. At this point, I want to listen and learn as much as I can about music.
> 
> I had a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


Consider a course. For example at City Lit in London, they're all online with Zoom so it doesn't matter where in the world you are

https://www.citylit.ac.uk/courses/performing-arts/music/music-history


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> I didn't grow up listening to a lot of classical music, and am just beginning to listen and explore. At this point, I want to listen and learn as much as I can about music.
> 
> I had a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


Welcome! I am doing a similari path. I can suggest you books I am reading myself but I need to know what exactly are your goals, if you want to know some composers in particular, if you know some theory already or you're not interested in theory etc. I know also a couple of YouTube channels. You can DM me if you want!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Lots of intro to Classical books are more into standard repertoire.

This one I thought is good.
https://www.amazon.ca/NPR-Guide-Building-Classical-Collection/dp/0761104879

But for more comprehensive list of different eras, this online site is great.

http://www.classical.net/music/rep/lists/class.php


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> But for more comprehensive list of different eras, this online site is great.
> 
> http://www.classical.net/music/rep/lists/class.php


That site is great, thanks.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I've found Robert Greenberg's courses from the Great Courses very, very helpful in understanding and appreciating classical works, even ones that I thought I knew well:

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/professors/robert-greenberg/

Many public libraries have these, and you can often find them cheaply on eBay. And they go on sale frequently.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

wkasimer said:


> I've found Robert Greenberg's courses from the Great Courses very, very helpful in understanding and appreciating classical works, even ones that I thought I knew well:
> 
> https://www.thegreatcourses.com/professors/robert-greenberg/
> 
> Many public libraries have these, and you can often find them cheaply on eBay. And they go on sale frequently.


...or you can subscribe to Great Courses Plus for $45.00 a month, granting you unlimited access to all Great Courses in online format I do so and it is a great bargain for the amount of material that is available to you.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Welcome to TC!

I am not sure there are any other forums as good as this one out there. There are many knowledgeable people here, on all eras of classical music.

A great book to check out, maybe not quite for those new to classical, but definitely worth adding to your list, is:

The Rest Is Noise: Listening to the Twentieth Century - Alex Ross









Since you have already discovered YouTube vids about theory, you might want to explore some of the channels from classical composers.

David Bruce and Samuel Andreyev have excellent channels by contemporary composers.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

For books, I quite like the Vintage Guide to CM by Jan Swafford.

YouTube has a lot of nice learning opportunities. Two of my favorite channels are Inside the Score (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4ihNhN8iN9QPg2XTxiiPJw) and Classics Explained (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjjae93847ZdOM9FDpgGVRg).


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Simon Moon said:


> A great book to check out, maybe not quite for those new to classical, but definitely worth adding to your list, is:
> 
> The Rest Is Noise: Listening to the Twentieth Century - Alex Ross


But is the content of this book focused in presenting interesting aspects of twentieth century music or it keeps the mocking tone towards earlier music? I know that it's famous and I considered buying it some years ago, but ultimately didn't due to it's provocative title.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Allerius said:


> But is the content of this book focused in presenting interesting aspects of twentieth century music or it keeps the mocking tone towards earlier music? I know that it's famous and I considered buying it some years ago, but ultimately didn't due to it's provocative title.


No mocking of pre-20th-century music there! In Alex Ross's own words, this is what the title means:
"I had in mind the widespread perception that classical composition devolved into noise as the twentieth century went on. What may sound like noise on first hearing may reveal hidden beauty if you give it a second chance."


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Bookspan is a wonderful introduction to the top repertory









The All Music Guide covers far more and was published 2010


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> For books, I quite like the Vintage Guide to CM by Jan Swafford....


I've found Swafford to be very informative in both this, and the lighter, The Language of the Spirit.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I second _The Lives of the Great Composer_ by Harold Schonberg. _Who's Afraid of Classical Music_ is a short volume by Michael Walsh that is somewhat outdated in terms of what is now available via new technology, but it's a great read and also approaches classical music with a sense of humor.

I've learn a lot by reading the liner notes that came with my records and later CDs.

During the previous century, I had subscriptions to _Stereo Review_ and _Opus_ magazines; but I don't even know if they've gone defunct since then.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> Since you are at the start of the journey, this thread might be of interest:
> 
> A Beginner's Guide to Classical Music


I'll second that. 

There are uncountable threads here though that discuss individual works; just explore. Find a thread about a particular work, pull that work up on Youtube, listen, and read the comments. There's an awful lot of knowledgeable folks here that can point out stuff in any given work. Don't worry if some of the comments are over your head - you'll start following along better and better as you go along.


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## ThankYouKiwi (May 2, 2021)

I have been reading and listening through this book recently and it's been a lot of fun. It's nice to go through the composers I already know again, and there are some cool new discoveries i've made too!


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## SilverstreakBlue (Apr 28, 2021)

Can you recommend books/authors on Beethoven, Mozart and Mahler too? I read the Beginner Guide on this forum, and I thought I would begin with these composers.


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## SilverstreakBlue (Apr 28, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> Welcome. There are some good books by eminent musicologists on great composers. Dr. Christoph Wolff for example is an authority on Bach. I'm not sure which composers you might be particularly interested in but I prefer to read in depth about the great composers rather than one book about the top number of them.


Can you recommend books/authors on Beethoven, Mozart and Mahler too? I read the Beginner Guide on this forum, and I thought I would begin with these composers.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> Can you recommend books/authors on Beethoven, Mozart and Mahler too? I read the Beginner Guide on this forum, and I thought I would begin with these composers.


Jan Swafford has written on Ives, Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart. I can't speak for these books but his general works are excellent.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> Can you recommend books/authors on Beethoven, Mozart and Mahler too? I read the Beginner Guide on this forum, and I thought I would begin with these composers.


Definitive music biographies


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

SilverstreakBlue said:


> Can you recommend books/authors on Beethoven, Mozart and Mahler too? I read the Beginner Guide on this forum, and I thought I would begin with these composers.


Maynard Solomon's biographies on Mozart and Beethoven, W. A. Mozart by Hermann Abert (explains not only his life but his works and influences, big book), Alfred Einstein's Mozart,
Charles Rosen's books about Classicism and Romanticism.

Cambridge University Press:
- The Cambridge Mozart Encyclopedia
- The age of Mozart and Beethoven by Giorgio Pestelli
- The Cambridge Companion to Mozart
- The Cambridge Companion to Beethoven
- The Cambridge Companion to Mahler. 
You can find the Cambridge Companion's books on almost any important composer.

Oxford University Press:
- Beethoven 1806, by Mark Ferraguto
- Beethoven by William Kinderman
- Romanticism, a very short introduction by Michael Ferbert
- Mozart by Julian Rushton (Master Musicians Series) 
- Music in the Galant Style by Robert O. Gjerdingen

Others:
- Interpreting Musical Gestures, Topics and Tropes, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert by Robert S. Hatten
- Musical Meaning in Beethoven by Robert S. Hatten
- Mozart the dramatist, the value of his operas to him, to his age and to us
- Mozart's grace, Princeton University Press

These are quite academical. Maybe you could read the Cambridge Companion's books only and that would be more than fine. I'm sorry I don't have more on Mahler.


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