# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Round 1, Match #3): Traubel vs Modl



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Helen Traubel, USA, 1899-1972






Martha Modl, Germany, 1912-2001






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

Helen Traubel

If the award was for the best Kundry then Modl would be the winner...


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I find this one somewhat difficult because part of the reason I preferred my favourite of the two is due to the conducting being more elastic and varied in tempo. Traubel has the better vocal production of the two and sounds more like a soprano than Modl with her dark tone. However, I don't much like Traubel's polite phrasing and there's not much feeling there. Modl, on the other hand, is all monumental expression and whilst I'm not sure that she is exactly my idea of what Isolde should sound like I enjoyed this second version more than the first. I pick Modl and expect to be in a minority.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Modl turns in a first class entry. Beautifully and sensitively sung. I think she had better emotional interpretation. BUT:
Traubel is on a whole other level by virtue of the incredible seamless beauty of tone and the the power to give you the musical climax one wants with that big orchestra and the importance in the opera. Traubel had one of the biggest voices ever heard in the annals of opera. Just a notch under Flagstad in size. I read where one recounter remembers his teacher having heard Traubel sing at Chicago Lyric and the voice was so huge she felt it hit her in the chest on a big note and then hit her as it bounced off the back of the hall. Traubel brings tremendous nobility to the aria.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Traubel doesn't sound very interested in the assignment - one of the great voices, given to someone who seems to have had more fun making movies and singing in nightclubs. Modl's chesty vocal production sounds like air being blown through a bellows, squeezed out of a tube, or slowly let out of a balloon. 

I'm sitting this one out.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't like to read others' posts till after I have stated my own preference. As a newbie in this category, and being a fierce lover of the orchestration of the liebstod, there simply was no contest to this ear. That conductor was superb (whoever it was) and brought out the juiciness of the music that impelled Traubel to great heights.
Helen Traubel won it by a country mile.
Now I shall go up and vote for her and read the other posts.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

After reading Woodduck's post I sat here spraying coffee all over my keyboard.
Sometimes being ignorant of a genre is comforting.
God bless that orchestra and how do I find out the conductor of Traubel's offering?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> After reading Woodduck's post I sat here spraying coffee all over my keyboard.
> Sometimes being ignorant of a genre is comforting.
> God bless that orchestra and how do I find out the conductor of Traubel's offering?


Careful! You can ruin a computer that way.

I think the conductor was Artur Rodzinski. His Wagner was highly regarded, and a performance of _Tristan_ was the last thing he conducted. He'd been in poor health for some time, and had been warned by his doctor that further conducting could put him at risk. So of course he chose to conduct _Tristan,_ went home, and died soon thereafter. If ya gotta go...


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Careful! You can ruin a computer that way.
> 
> I think the conductor was Artur Rodzinski. His Wagner was highly regarded, and a performance of _Tristan_ was the last thing he conducted. He'd been in poor health for some time, and had been warned by his doctor that further conducting could put him at risk. So of course he chose to conduct _Tristan,_ went home, and died soon thereafter. If ya gotta go...


Bless you and miracle of miracles: I know not much of Wagnerian operas but the Prelude and Love-Death have been my soul since teenage days (what are they?)
And what a pleasant surprise to note that Artur Rodzinski was my very favorite conductor for them way back then, sans singer. I _knew_ it sounded perfect to my ear.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I think the conductor was Artur Rodzinski. His Wagner was highly regarded, and a performance of _Tristan_ was the last thing he conducted. He'd been in poor health for some time, and had been warned by his doctor that further conducting could put him at risk. So of course he chose to conduct _Tristan,_ went home, and died soon thereafter. If ya gotta go...


He was probably cursed by the ghost of Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Traubel has the better voice, no doubt about it, but she sounds singularly uninvolved and impassive. Mödl does at least give us a performance, though the sound she makes is not particularly beautiful. Neither of them appeal to me as much as the others we've heard so far, but I'll give this round to Mödl (by a whisker).

Now how about some slightly more recent Isoldes? It might be interesting to comapare Nilsson and Margaret Price, for instance. And of course Callas recorded it (in Italian) back in 1949, when the role was still in her repertoire.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Traubel has the better voice, no doubt about it, but she sounds singularly uninvolved and impassive. Mödl does at least give us a performance, though the sound she makes is not particularly beautiful. Neither of them appeal to me as much as the others we've heard so far, but I'll give this round to Mödl (by a whisker).
> 
> Now how about some slightly more recent Isoldes? It might be interesting to comapare Nilsson and Margaret Price, for instance. And of course Callas recorded it (in Italian) back in 1949, when the role was still in her repertoire.


I'd also think it worth hearing some of the really recent versions. Meier? Steme? (Not because I think they will be better, but it's worth comparing how the singing of the Liebestod has changed over the years.)

N.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Well, I can clearly understand why most of the listeners are sitting on the fence here 
Mödl sounds a bit matronly at the very beginning but that changes soon (not enough warm-up?) but the articulation, phrasing and legato lines are exquisite and the traitorous "Lust" is negotiated much better than that of Traubel.
But I wouldn't say Helen Traubel fared much worse - in fact, I listened to her version first and I had tears in my eyes by the end, but, for me, Mödl is the winner here.

P.S. Many thanks to The Conte for Meier suggestion: we definitely should hear her rendition, it's spectacular! I'd recommend Bayreuth one.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I've rarely found Traubel's interpretations especially inspired, although she is excellent in a preserved Met broadcast of _Tristan_ with Melchior that you can get from Naxos. It's a shame, as her instrument is easily one of the greatest of the century.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Traubel has the better voice, no doubt about it, but she sounds singularly uninvolved and impassive. Mödl does at least give us a performance, though the sound she makes is not particularly beautiful. Neither of them appeal to me as much as the others we've heard so far, but I'll give this round to Mödl (by a whisker).
> 
> Now how about some slightly more recent Isoldes? It might be interesting to comapare Nilsson and Margaret Price, for instance. And of course Callas recorded it (in Italian) back in 1949, when the role was still in her repertoire.


After I suggested this list of German dramatic sopranos I thought of Christine Brewer who has a really glorious Wagnerian voice. I love her on disc, but don't know how she was received in the theater. Likely many would not be familiar with her. If you have not heard her she has a really glorious voice and fills the stage as well as the opera house ;-) Margaret Price has a great voice, but I just don't think of her as a dramatic soprano. Perhaps i'm wrong. She is almost unparalleled in Mozart.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

The Conte said:


> I find this one somewhat difficult because part of the reason I preferred my favourite of the two is due to the conducting being more elastic and varied in tempo. Traubel has the better vocal production of the two and sounds more like a soprano than Modl with her dark tone. However, I don't much like Traubel's polite phrasing and there's not much feeling there. Modl, on the other hand, is all monumental expression and whilst I'm not sure that she is exactly my idea of what Isolde should sound like I enjoyed this second version more than the first. I pick Modl and expect to be in a minority.
> N.


Conte we are of like mind here, and I would be contrary to myself to not give the palm to Miss Modl since I think her live 52 Bayreuth Tristan performance perhaps my favorite version of all, she has to vocally "work harder" but she is doing much more dramatically with the aria and that is most important to me (not technical vocal superiority) and by the end I am convinced she has reached out beyond this world to join her beloved Tristan.....

Traubel is really good for the reason SOF and other eloquently point out with the purity of tone and immense power, notice she carefully follows RW orchestral backing and her vocals swell and recede as the music flows, I don't find it bland or detached just when you are painting a science of delerious ecstasy that culminates in reaching beyond this world (the transfiguration) no need to play it safe, let it all go


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Traubel has the better voice, no doubt about it, but she sounds singularly uninvolved and impassive. Mödl does at least give us a performance, though the sound she makes is not particularly beautiful. Neither of them appeal to me as much as the others we've heard so far, but I'll give this round to Mödl (by a whisker).
> 
> Now how about some slightly more recent Isoldes? It might be interesting to compare Nilsson and Margaret Price, for instance. And of course Callas recorded it (in Italian) back in 1949, when the role was still in her repertoire.


The three you've named are a diverse group indeed. The Callas is predictably unlike any other, sad and mysterious, beautifully detailed in its phrasing and expression. Nilsson and Bohm at Bayreuth achieve a shattering climax that a friend of mine compared to the best orgasm you've ever had. Margaret Price seems to have wandered in from the Almaviva household but gives a sensitive rendition with a bit of help from the microphone. It's really extraordinary what a variety of singers have recorded this aria, many of whom would or could never sing it onstage.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Now how about some slightly more recent Isoldes? It might be interesting to comapare Nilsson and Margaret Price, for instance. And of course Callas recorded it (in Italian) back in 1949, when the role was still in her repertoire.





The Conte said:


> I'd also think it worth hearing some of the really recent versions. Meier? Steme? (Not because I think they will be better, but it's worth comparing how the singing of the Liebestod has changed over the years.)
> 
> N.


Bear with me guys, we're not even through the first round yet. I went out of my way to include modern singers in the baritone tournament and I'll do the same here.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> After I suggested this list of German dramatic sopranos I thought of Christine Brewer who has a really glorious Wagnerian voice. I love her on disc, but don't know how she was received in the theater. Likely many would not be familiar with her. If you have not heard her she has a really glorious voice and fills the stage as well as the opera house ;-) Margaret Price has a great voice, but I just don't think of her as a dramatic soprano. Perhaps i'm wrong. She is almost unparalleled in Mozart.


Price's Isolde is just a product of the gramophone. I doubt she'd ever have been able to sing it in the theatre. I just thought bringing her in would be an interesting comparison, as the Kleiber recording has such a good reputation. By the same token, Jessey Norman sang the _Liebestod_ in concert, but never attempted the whole role. I do rather like her performance of it under Karajan though.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Price's Isolde is just a product of the gramophone. I doubt she'd ever have been able to sing it in the theatre. I just thought bringing her in would be an interesting comparison, as the Kleiber recording has such a good reputation. By the same token, Jessey Norman sang the _Liebestod_ in concert, but never attempted the whole role. I do rather like her performance of it under Karajan though.


From what others have said about her height (6'1"?), the only recent Tristan who wouldn't have been dwarfed by Jessye Norman's Isolde was Ben Heppner. Even Heppner could only just hold his own against Jane Eaglen (though her immensity was perhaps more horizontal than vertical), and I'm reminded of a description of Melchior and Traubel onstage as "the collision of two buses."


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> From what others have said about her height (6'1"?), the only recent Tristan who wouldn't have been dwarfed by Jessye Norman's Isolde was Ben Heppner. Even Heppner could only just hold his own against Jane Eaglen (though her immensity was perhaps more horizontal than vertical), and I'm reminded of a description of Melchior and Traubel onstage as "the collision of two buses."


I almost suggested Jane Eaglen as a more recent Wagnerian, but I think only Seattleites are crazy about her. Her Liebestod was wonderful. She could have sung another couple of hours it sounded like. We got her younger and fresher voiced than NYC. At her debut in Norma she was only 33 here. She had to retire early as her breath support suffered as she aged with all that vast weight she had put on.
Norman toyed with recording Isolde for years, but after the weight loss the curse would have been too much for her. She rocked the Liebestod, which of course never goes unusually high.. a G at most I think. When you think of the substituted lowered notes in the Immolation Scene for the opening Benaroya Hall on tv after her weight loss, one shudders at what she would have had to do for Isolde. It is a wonder Traubel was so good at the role with her short top.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^ Isolde has two brief high Cs in Act 2 which you can leave out without too much damage. Otherwise I don't think there was anything Traubel couldn't hit, though I imagine she didn't draw out the curse in the electrifying way Nilsson and the younger Flagstad could. Norman might have had some trouble with the high notes later in her career, but I can imagine her as a fine Isolde in her prime. She and Eileen Farrell are the two Wagner heroines we never had except in bits and pieces. Farrell's "Immolation scene" with Bernstein was my introduction to it, and it's among the best.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> ^^^ Isolde has two brief high Cs in Act 2 which you can leave out without too much damage. Otherwise I don't think there was anything Traubel couldn't hit, though I imagine she didn't draw out the curse in the electrifying way Nilsson and the younger Flagstad could. Norman might have had some trouble with the high notes later in her career, but I can imagine her as a fine Isolde in her prime. She and Eileen Farrell are the two Wagner heroines we never had except in bits and pieces. Farrell' "Immolation scene" with Bernstein was my introduction to it, and it's among the best.


I agree, in her prime Norman could have recorded a great Isolde. I LOVE her Wagner CD she recorded in her prime. Her Immolation Scene then was one of the very best I have ever heard. She was talking about recording Isolde mostly later. Jessye had the wrong voice for Sieglinde as it wasn't youthful, but surely she must have been one of the most thrilling ever when she got that sword. Her chest notes in Der Manner Sippe were like a contraltos. Early on her Kundry was really good, but after the weight loss the big high note was a let down. She was a wonderful Elsa.

Farrell has some of the finest Wagner on recordings, including a great Siegfried last act with rich rich low notes but she refused singing full roles for Bing as she was afraid it would harm her voice. It must have worked as she sounded great as late as her 70's. I heard her pre teen as a fan and she kept saving her voice for an act that never came. Of course, I wouldn't want to bust my butt for Jackson, MS either LOL.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Traubel sounds noble, like the princess she is, but remote and doesn’t engage - she’s like Eileen Farrell to me, who thinks just singing the notes is enough - it’s not.
I don’t like Modl’s voice at all, but she emotes and sings quite well, but not pleasingly for me.

I can’t pick either one.


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