# Music moved to another context (testing)



## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

For some reason I have occasionally consciously moved pieces of music to another context and tested how it affects my listening.

My first test was listening to Sibelius’ 3rd convincing myself it was a Haydn symphony. I was so thrilled! The 3rd sounded so brilliant. Haydn truly revolutionized the musical world with this masterpiece! How is it possible he was so inventive?

My second test was listening to Sibelius 3rd convincing myself it was an early Brahms symphony. I was puzzled. What an earth was the primitivism and constant repetition? Why on earth was the orchestral writing so translucent? Was Brahms maybe expressing the no-nonsense atmosphere of the northern city Hamburg?

It occurred to me that only later on Brahms developed his mature, noble style with thicker orchestral textures and very rich harmonies. I also connected the emotional thematic and melodic richness of the symphony to the 3rd Piano Sonata in F minor. 

The Early Symphony was a very valuable look deep into the heart of young Brahms. There was even something obsessive about the repetitive rhythms — a trait very rarely found in later Brahms. Fascinating!

(I have a strong imagination.)

Please suggest some other context tests for me or try them yourself! This is fun.


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Interesting post. Makes me wonder about which works departed the most from a composer's style.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Waehnen said:


> My first test was listening to Sibelius’ 3rd convincing myself it was a Haydn symphony. I was so thrilled! The 3rd sounded so brilliant. Haydn truly revolutionized the musical world with this masterpiece! How is it possible he was so inventive?


As I was listening to this, I thought, "WTF? an 18th century composer would never have composed like this", (for a moment I thought of Michael's notorious drinking habits, which were criticized by Leopold). But then I looked up the details of the recording and found the composer was actually Jean Francaix (1912-1997).




Theme and Variations for Clarinet and 11 Strings


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

4chamberedklavier said:


> Interesting post. Makes me wonder about which works departed the most from a composer's style.


I became aware of this context thing recently at a summer cottage with a friend. We listened to the finale of Mahler’s 2nd Symphony. When the two sopranos started to sing in thirds, I was all of a sudden embarrassed. Then I realized why: I knew subconsciously that is exactly the kind of vocal sound my friend dislikes. 

So I was taken out of the magic due to the social context. I was proven right a few seconds later when my friend commented on the ’horrible double soprano sound’.

For me the finale has always been about the holistic sound, not about a passage with some sopranos. It is leading to the wonderful choir passages.

So even the presense of someone else alone can change the way we perceive music.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

I remember driving home catching an inventive, engaging work on the radio. I arrived home and waited in the car to hear what it might be. I was thinking it was Mozart or an early LvB trio I hadn't heard yet. 

It was Hummel. My reaction was, "Oh, that's just Hummel." 
Why do I do that?

Anyway, the announcer said, "Now after that Hummel we'll listen to a more modern example by (I forget who)." No identification. Why do they do that? You wait 10-15 minutes to hear what the piece is, but they've already talked about it at the beginning. Grrrr.. 
These days at least you can take the time to look up the schedule on a website. 

Public radio used to run short clips of famous works as fillers, like some Scarlatti or a Schubert impromptu, no identifications, very frustrating, but now they run some nonsense interludes that sound like jingles. Which is worse?


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Luchesi said:


> I was Hummel. My reaction was, "Oh, that's just Hummel."


You're pretty calm. If I found out I was Hummel I'd curse the heavens for not making me Beethoven instead.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

4chamberedklavier said:


> You're pretty calm. If I found out I was Hummel I'd curse the heavens for not making me Beethoven instead.


Fun, I fixed it. Hummel probably had a happier life.. 

Who's to say.. I wouldn't wanted to have lived back then. Probably not in the future, a hundred years from now either.. I think 'progress' will continue to reduce the simple joys (because personal dedication is required). Generally speaking, kids are surrounded by other people's stories (flickering screens everywhere), but there's no time or thought for being creative themselves.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Luchesi said:


> I remember driving home catching an inventive, engaging work on the radio. I arrived home and waited in the car to hear what it might be. I was thinking it was Mozart or an early LvB trio I hadn't heard yet.
> 
> It was Hummel. My reaction was, "Oh, that's just Hummel."
> Why do I do that?
> ...


When that happens I just drag out my iPhone and ask it (Siri) _"What song is this?"_. She usually knows.

When she doesn't I can always make note of the time I heard the piece, and when I get home can look up the station's playlist log to find what it was.

Way back in the 20th Century, when I was a Music Major, the Music History teacher would play "Drop the needle" [Drop the stylus on an LP in a random place] for quizzes, where we'd have to guess the piece, composer, format, genre, etc.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I've had a similar experience to Waehnen and Hammered at the same time. Back in 2020 I was listening online to an American classical radio station, I think a Boston one, and my browser showed that they were supposedly playing music by Sibelius. I was shocked how modern it sounded. Then I realized... that was no Sibelius, it was Williams's 2019 The Rise of Skywalker


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

pianozach said:


> When that happens I just drag out my iPhone and ask it (Siri) _"What song is this?"_. She usually knows.
> 
> When she doesn't I can always make note of the time I heard the piece, and when I get home can look up the station's playlist log to find what it was.
> 
> Way back in the 20th Century, when I was a Music Major, the Music History teacher would play "Drop the needle" [Drop the stylus on an LP in a random place] for quizzes, where we'd have to guess the piece, composer, format, genre, etc.


You lose 6 hrs of the unparalleled appreciation of trying to find the correct Scarlatti sonata or Chopin Mazurka. I know I've heard it..


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

There was some speculation on another thread that Sibelius´ Tapiola could have once been a movement from the 8th Symphony. It resulted in me trying yet another of these context games of mine -- listening to Tapiola as though it was the long sought after 8th Symphony.

More than ever I was thrilled by the harmonies, textures, tone colours and orchestral writing. I wasn´t listening to "the trees" or "the forest" but the actual musical material. All of a sudden I heard all the work Sibelius put in the actual very refined constellation of the material. All of a sudden it is clear to me that the 7th Symphony wasn´t the Goodbye Symphony. With the 8th Symphony something totally new came to life. All of a sudden the amazing musical quality of Tapiola and the compositional mastery of Sibelius became evident.


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