# Brendel's Beethoven



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Being extremely impressed with Brendel's Haydn and Mozart I thought he may be a classical era expert, but he can play Beethoven so romantically it's not even funny. 

Very diverse and multi-talented pianist Brendel is!


Commonalities between his Haydn/Mozart and Beethoven is his light smooth touch. But his dynamics change ever so appropriately.

I'm very impressed with him!

Can he do it all?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hopefully all of you knew I mean Brendel in the thread title, silly spell check!


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

IMO, there are so many pianists who play Beethoven better than Brendel, but if you like him that much, that's all that matters.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Being extremely impressed with Brendel's Haydn and Mozart I thought he may be a classical era expert, but he can play Beethoven so romantically it's not even funny.
> 
> Very diverse and multi-talented pianist Brendel is!
> 
> ...


Me too. He's one of my favorites. He wasn't a slouch with Bach either! One of my all-time favorite Bach recordings, so beautiful nuanced and expressive... as real music and not as a sewing machine:

https://www.amazon.com/Brendel-Plays-Bach-Concerto-Chromatic/dp/B00000419P


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> IMO, there are so many pianists who play Beethoven better than Brendel, but if you like him that much, that's all that matters.


I think I'm more impressed with how well he adjusts between Classical and Romantic eras so seamlessly. I won't deny their are others who perhaps take Beethoven to even greater depths, but I think he is rare in being able to adjust so seamlessly between eras.

And I really enjoy all of it, his Beethoven is dramatic and emotional as it should be, but he holds onto his light approach with his fingers floating over the keyboard.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> Me too. He's one of my favorites. He wasn't a slouch with Bach either! One of my all-time favorite Bach recordings, so beautiful nuanced and expressive... as real music and not as a sewing machine:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Brendel-Plays-Bach-Concerto-Chromatic/dp/B00000419P


I'll give a listen to his Bach here in a bit.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mrs. Beethoven, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Brendel's approach to your hubby!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Mrs. Beethoven, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Brendel's approach to your hubby!


I think she's in the hospital after finding out about Brenda! :lol:

Just kidding with you, Captain!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> I think she's in the hospital after finding out about Brenda! :lol:
> 
> Just kidding with you, Captain!


:lol: hahaha, that was hilarious, a Klassik indeed!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> :lol: hahaha, that was hilarious, a Klassik indeed!


Let's just hope Beethoven did not provide Bettina with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. His bad breath might doom Bettina! 

Seriously though, Brendel does a good job. I can see why you like his performances.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> Let's just hope Beethoven did not provide Bettina with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. His bad breath might doom Bettina!
> 
> Seriously though, Brendel does a good job. I can see why you like his performances.


It's kind of interesting, and I'm sure others have shared this experience as well, but sometimes I purchase a CD blind not knowing anything about the performer and then after learning something about him/her, re-discover the CD in my collection and listen with fresh ears and new perspectives.

That is what happened with this Brendel Beethoven; I had a CD of him performing some Beethoven, and came back to it after hearing his Mozart/Haydn.

Neat how that works in Classical music!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> Me too. He's one of my favorites. He wasn't a slouch with Bach either! One of my all-time favorite Bach recordings, so beautiful nuanced and expressive... as real music and not as a sewing machine:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Brendel-Plays-Bach-Concerto-Chromatic/dp/B00000419P


Oh my, his Bach is delightful! Very playful where Gould is more stern and muscular.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Mrs. Beethoven, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Brendel's approach to your hubby!


I love Brendel's approach to Haydn and Mozart, but I'm not as crazy about his take on Beethoven. It's not passionate enough for my tastes - it sounds a bit too studied and precise. I admire his insight into the music, but he doesn't sweep me away emotionally the way that some pianists do (Kempff, Schnabel).


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Bettina said:


> I love Brendel's approach to Haydn and Mozart, but I'm not as crazy about his take on Beethoven. It's not passionate enough for my tastes - it sounds a bit too studied and precise. I admire his insight into the music, but he doesn't sweep me away emotionally the way that some pianists do (Kempff, Schnabel).


We disagree, I don't think I can be your friend anymore.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> We disagree, I don't think I can be your friend anymore.


Sometimes I think watching Kempff perform makes us feel like he is digging deeper than he really is. His eyes pull you in, perhaps more than his playing. He's very good, but I recall watching his moonlight (the one on youtube that has mistakes) and being pulled in, but it was more his "eye work" than his playing.

But I definitely enjoy his takes!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> We disagree, I don't think I can be your friend anymore.


I have nothing against Brendel, so please don't unfriend me! :lol: He's an excellent pianist. It's just that he doesn't deliver the very specific sound that I prefer when listening to Beethoven. My preference is for a highly sensual, fiery interpretation, in order to enhance my feelings of love and passion (I'd better not go into too much detail about that here on the main forum...) :devil:


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

The first of his three cycles, on VOX, was the best of the lot IMO. I heard him play the Hammerklavier live during this period and was left with the feeling that this was a truly wonderful musical experience. After that he got too intellectual for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Holden4th said:


> The first of his three cycles, on VOX, was the best of the lot IMO. I heard him play the Hammerklavier live during this period and was left with the feeling that this was a truly wonderful musical experience. After that he got too intellectual for me.


That is what other people saying,I do not agree I am more impressed by his first Philips recordings to be honest.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Bettina said:


> I love Brendel's approach to Haydn and Mozart, but I'm not as crazy about his take on Beethoven. It's not passionate enough for my tastes - it sounds a bit too studied and precise. I admire his insight into the music, but he doesn't sweep me away emotionally the way that some pianists do (Kempff, Schnabel).


Generally I agree, but before I go any further I want to emphasize that there's really no right or wrong in preferring one pianist over another. Personally, I find Brendel to be more in a journeyman, generic classification, good, sometimes very good, but, in the end just doesn't move me.

Listen to the great opening of the #29 Hammerklavier Adagio. Brendel skips along thru the grand opening in almost a perfunctory manner. On the other hand, (the late) Emil Gilels, one of the great Beethoven interpreters, carefully draws out the detail and substance of the opening. Sokolov does also, perhaps too slowly for some tastes, but listen to the tone!

Brendel:





Gilles:





Sokolov:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> Generally I agree, but before I go any further I want to emphasize that there's really no right or wrong in preferring one pianist over another. Personally, I find Brendel to be more in a journeyman, generic classification, good, sometimes very good, but, in the end just doesn't move me.
> 
> Listen to the great opening of the #29 Hammerklavier Adagio. Brendel skips along thru the grand opening in almost a perfunctory manner. On the other hand, (the late) Emil Gilels, one of the great Beethoven interpreters, carefully draws out the detail and substance of the opening. Sokolov does also, perhaps too slowly for some tastes, but listen to the tone!
> 
> ...


Listening to the first few minuets of each of these, really shows you the difference in the takes. I can see how Brendel makes Beethoven almost elegant, where the other two bring out the darkness more.

I still really like Brendel's approach though!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

You need to be a wary about talking about "Brendel's Beethoven" because the whole approach changed significantly, and maybe there are three periods, starting with the Vanguard set, followed by two sets for Philips. For the sonatas I'm very keen on the last Philips set, I like its delicacy, expressiveness and sense of emotion controlled. I think what he does with rubato etc is imaginative and organic.

I've very often heard people say that the second set, that's to say the first of the Philips surveys, is disappointing. But I haven't formed an opinion myself, I've just not given it the time. At one time I intended to compare the sonatas in all three sets, maybe that would be a fun thing to do this summer . . .

As far as the Hammerklavier is concerned, where this thread seems to have gravitated, I think one of the best recordings of it I've ever heard is from Brendel, it's a live one on Philips.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I once saw Brendel play The Diabelli Variations in the Edinburgh Festival, it was a midnight concert in a small church on the outskirts of the centre of town. This was one of the most memorable concerts I've ever been to, not least because of the ambience in the queue to gain admission - everyone excited, slightly drunk probably, in festival mood, many people including myself had come straight from a fully staged Siegfried (or was it Walkure?) and that gave us all something to discuss with strangers. He developed a fabulous rapport with the audience and the recital was magic. 

The Diabelli Variations is one of his strengths, one of the pieces he has worked on over his whole career, and there are many many recordings by him: I've learned that connoisseurs disagree about which one they like the most. For me it's a recording from 2001, which I think is an almost perfect balance of heart and head: the passion of the early recording which Tom Deacon put in his Great Pianists, tempered with more control and noble delicacy.

Another memorable concert was his final farewell at The Wigmore Hall, some Beethoven cello sonatas with his son Adrian, again a magical ambience. I believe it was recorded, I haven't heard the recording.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I once saw Brendel play The Diabelli Variations in the Edinburgh Festival, it was a midnight concert in a small church on the outskirts of the centre of town. This was one of the most memorable concerts I've ever been to, not least because of the ambience in the queue to gain admission - everyone excited, slightly drunk probably, in festival mood, many people including myself had come straight from a fully staged Siegfried (or was it Walkure?) and that gave us all something to discuss with strangers. He developed a fabulous rapport with the audience and the recital was magic.
> 
> The Diabelli Variations is one of his strengths, one of the pieces he has worked on over his whole career, and there are many many recordings by him: I've learned that connoisseurs disagree about which one they like the most. For me it's a recording from 2001, which I think is an almost perfect balance of heart and head: the passion of the early recording which Tom Deacon put in his Great Pianists, tempered with more control and noble delicacy.
> 
> Another memorable concert was his final farewell at The Wigmore Hall, some Beethoven cello sonatas with his son Adrian, again a magical ambience. I believe it was recorded, I haven't heard the recording.


Sounds amazing! You are very lucky.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Can we get this title fixed to "Brendel" instead of "Brenda"?

Thanks mods!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I love Brendel's approach to Haydn and Mozart, but I'm not as crazy about his take on Beethoven. It's not passionate enough for my tastes - it sounds a bit too studied and precise. I admire his insight into the music, but he doesn't sweep me away emotionally the way that some pianists do (Kempff, Schnabel).


I know what you mean. His "Appassionata," for example, sounds a little bloodless and tame to me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> I know what you mean. His "Appassionata," for example, sounds a little bloodless and tame to me.


I hear what you guys are saying, I just like it that way, and that's ok!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I hear what you guys are saying


I think some of this is about how you understand the "heroism" in Beethoven's middle period -- as a noble Promethean striving or as a sort of sweaty struggle. This is what sets expectations about how you think something like the Appassionata should go.

For my part I rarely listen to the middle period whoever's playing. I don't like the music.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> I think some of this is about how you understand the "heroism" in Beethoven's middle period -- as a noble Promethean striving or as a sort of sweaty struggle. This is what sets expectations about how you think something like the Appassionata should go.
> 
> For my part I rarely listen to the middle period whoever's playing. I don't like the music.


Not heroism necessarily. If the first movement of the Appassionata doesn't sound completely unhinged it isn't intense enough for me. In the retransition of that movement one should feel crushed beneath waves of sound - IMO, obviously. (I really like the middle-period sonatas.)


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I hear what you guys are saying, I just like it that way, and that's ok!


I'm with you. In a recording which I'm going to live with for a long time (I hope!) I like the degree of objectivity Brendel brings to the music and would add that I don't find it bloodless, though these things will always strike different listeners differently and that's entirely legit.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> Not heroism necessarily. If the first movement of the Appassionata doesn't sound completely unhinged it isn't intense enough for me. In the retransition of that movement one should feel crushed beneath waves of sound - IMO, obviously. (I really like the middle-period sonatas.)


There's a tragic feeling about this one which I enjoy more than unhinged


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Not my favourite but I like him better than Kempff who's all over the place to my ears


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Listening to the first few *minuets* of each of these, really shows you the difference in the takes. I can see how Brendel makes Beethoven almost elegant, where the other two bring out the darkness more.
> 
> I still really like Brendel's approach though!


This has opened up a whole new world of enjoyment of the Hammerklavier for me. I never appreciated the minuets in the Adagio opening! (Just kidding. We all make typos. Just couldn't let that one pass. )


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> This has opened up a whole new world of enjoyment of the Hammerklavier for me. I never appreciated the minuets in the Adagio opening! (Just kidding. We all make typos. Just couldn't let that one pass. )


I've always struggled with Minuet and Minute my whole life. I have to concentrate and think about the spelling each time I try to spell out each word. :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Brendel has an excellent Waldstein performance. I'm not sure how many times he has recorded it, but the one I have is impressive.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Can we get this title fixed to "Brendel" instead of "Brenda"?
> 
> Thanks mods!


Yes, we can.

I grew up on Brendel's Beethoven, as it happens, and know the 1960s Vox recordings intimately - hence my username - and the 1970s Philips set almost as well. This has spoiled other pianists' interpretations for me, unfortunately, as they don't sound like Brendel, not even Paul Lewis who supposedly does.

In recitals, he introduced me to Haydn and Liszt's music for piano too*, for which I am eternally grateful. A very fine pianist indeed.

*Edit: and Busoni's.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I love Brendel's Beethoven. For me, the pinnacle is his Haydn recordings played with a sparkle and conversational quality second to none; Haydn does need to sparkle.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> I love Brendel's Beethoven. For me, the pinnacle is his Haydn recordings played with a sparkle and conversational quality second to none; Haydn does need to sparkle.


He brings that sparkle to everything he does I feel but adjusts well dynamically to adhere to the composer.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I can say that I certainly rate him above Gould.


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

All three of Brendel's traversals of the 32 are worth knowing. I am partial to his second recording though...

...Brendel was also an *excellent* Liszt player. His versions of the Sonata and some of the late works are stupendous.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

lextune said:


> All three of Brendel's traversals of the 32 are worth knowing. I am partial to his second recording though...


Agree. I no longer have that recording, though, only his first traversal for Vox. His talent is evident there, but there are a few rough edges and the sound, even in the CD incarnation, is variable. About the time of his 2nd recording (for Philips I think) he also recorded the Diabellis in a most excellent performance.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

lextune said:


> All three of Brendel's traversals of the 32 are worth knowing. I am partial to his second recording though...
> 
> ...Brendel was also an *excellent* Liszt player. His versions of the Sonata and some of the late works are stupendous.


Although I'm not a great fan of Liszt, I do agree that Brendel was a brilliant interpreter. His Bmin Sonata is maybe a little cooler than some recordings but he brings out the detail of the music superbly. I like his Beethoven interpretations, too, most especially the later sonatas. Brendel seems to get the thoughtful, even playful, elements alongside the darker moments. But for the stormy middle period, it's Gilels all the way!


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## David9 (Aug 13, 2017)

I agree! Brendel has that whole Viennese thing in his DNA but there is another Waldstein that I like better than his - Emil Gilels. So many great pianists and performances - I don't think there is a definitive cycle (my search for 'the one' has led to 5 complete sets, so far! and now Annie Fischer's is in my sights!).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

lextune said:


> ...Brendel was also an *excellent* Liszt player. His versions of the Sonata and some of the late works are stupendous.


Not everyone likes Brendel's Liszt, but I agree with you. I compared his recording of the _Annees de Pelerinage_ piece by piece with Lazar Berman's, and almost invariably preferred Brendel. He was taking Liszt's music seriously, as more than a virtuoso vehicle, when that wasn't a consensus view.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

best pianist of the 20th century, i said it! Well, at least the best I've heard :lol: The only thing I've heard from him that was even slightly flawed was the Diabelli Variations, some of which sounded a bit mechanical.


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