# Brahms 4: Thoughts



## Forte (Jul 26, 2013)

A couple months ago I heard this analysis of the first movement of Brahms' fourth symphony in E minor.






I had a two piano reduction score with me and I followed along, and my mind was just being blown the whole time. I knew the greatness of Brahms' symphonies beforehand, and of course his reputation as a composer, but after listening to this I feel like I discover the most ingenious things in every single new piece by Brahms that I hear. This guy was just an unbelievable level of genius when you break down his stuff. And on top of that there is something moving about the mental stimulation you get when you understand so many structural layers on top of each other in a piece of music.

Somehow when I took a step back and listened for emotional content it seemed so much deeper and richer than I ever imagined it could be.

Having heard this, I now have a huge appreciation for all of Brahms' music whether it be his symphonies, chamber works, or concerti. It's just opened up a way of thinking about microstructures and motivic development that I'd never have thought existed. Reminds me of when I first got hooked on Bach's genius.

So what are your thoughts on this symphony? Also if you haven't listened to Bernstein's analysis I'd encourage you to if you like Brahms or even more so if you don't get what Brahms is about.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

It definitely is my favourite symphony


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

The emotional surge is sometimes too great for me contain from the very opening.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Powerful work.
A favorite.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

My first hearing of this symphony, some 50 or so years ago, remains an indelible memory, for the good. A great work, all round.


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## revdrdave (Jan 8, 2014)

One of my favorite pieces by Brahms but I have a confession: I often stop listening after the first three movements. As much as I try, I can't get into the finale. I know all about it's supposed greatness--and I'm sure it is great--but it just doesn't work for me.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I had several of those 'Music Appreciation' LPs back in the day. They were a great help in getting orchestral music sorted out. Not so much in 'appreciating' the subject work as for the bunch of them.


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

revdrdave said:


> One of my favorite pieces by Brahms but I have a confession: I often stop listening after the first three movements. As much as I try, I can't get into the finale. I know all about it's supposed greatness--and I'm sure it is great--but it just doesn't work for me.


I had a similar experience with the symphony upon my initial impressions. The last movement didn't seem to match the greatness of the last. I have learned to accept it, and think it is indeed great, but there's still something about it that isn't quite competing on the same playing field as the other three.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Brahms' 4th is my favorite non-Beethoven symphony. I think it's one of the few symphonies that is pretty much perfect, from the first movement to the last. My favorite recording is the justly celebrated, and in my opinion, the definitive recording by Kleiber/VPO (DG). I also really like Toscanini with the NBC Symphony Orchestra (1952).

Also, with regards to the final movement, I really enjoy it (not as much as the first or second movement). However, since I'm not a "music person" in the sense that I don't know the technical terms and I don't study it, I love classical music because I enjoy listening to it. I'm not truly able to appreciate how great it is "musically", I'm not able to identify a passacaglia when I hear one or its homages to Baroque music. For instance, here's a passage from Tom Service's article on Brahms' 4th in this 50 Greatest Symphonies guide:

"The finale. Brahms's symphonic passacaglia is when I can explain the meaning of those "abstract" quotation marks. This is one of the most tightly constructed movements ever composed, with 30 variations (and a concluding coda) on the melody you hear blazed out at the beginning in the brass and woodwind; that melody is part of the texture of every single succeeding variation, as the passacaglia form demands. But although it's made from the highest watermark of musical arcana and compositional virtuosity, all that supposed "abstractness" means that the piece is actually an explosion of expressive meanings. The main melody is an expansion of a chaconne tune from Bach's cantata 150 (a "chaconne", like the one in Bach's D Minor Partita for solo violin, is a similar form to a passacaglia), and Brahms's use of a baroque method of construction is his homage to an era of musical history that this piece simultaneously honours and draws to a tragic conclusion.* For me, the finale has the ineluctable power of a Greek drama: it's a dark prophecy that's fulfilled in that shattering final cadence. The journey from Brahms's First Symphony to his Fourth is from optimism to pessimism, from the possibility of reshaping the world to a resignation at its essential melancholy.*"

Myself, I'm able to identify much more with the section in bold, not so much the musical terminology that precedes it.


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