# Shostakovich Symphony 15 Peace Summit



## Chi_townPhilly

Shostakovich's 15th Symphony... mentioned by *Robert Newman* (twice) on the "10 favorite symphonies" thread, _and_ mentioned by *Mango* on the "post-1950 masterworks" thread. So, to help commemorate the week of the 40th anniversary of the Hollybush Summit between Kosygin & Johnson [held just down the road from me in Glassboro, NJ; USA, heh, heh], perhaps we can discuss the unique mastery that is Shostakovich's final symphony


----------



## robert newman

What a great idea ! This masterpiece is music of the very greatest kind on all levels. 

I first heard Shostakovitch 15 (his last symphony) performed at the South Bank in London to a packed audience - the Royal Philnarmonic Orchestra - some 15 years ago. It can be compared to a survey of music over the centuries. It first introduces themes that are deliberately populist and childlike before moving in to deeper territory in the movements that follow, finally ending with an astonishing finale of mystical, tense, almost sacred hush over several minutes by the use of rythmic percussion and wonderful sustained strings. In my view it's the greatest symphony of the 20th century. What a work !! From a marvellous composer.


----------



## tutto

I remember,10 years ago, it was in Marburg, I was holding all of them in my hand, but...
Is this the one that has vibraphone in it? that was nice..


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Thanks, *robert*, for your heartfelt advocacy of this work. The piece went to the top of my re-audition list today. I prepped myself with some program notes beforehand. I found a parallel between my feelings on this very substantive symphony and Hanslick's comment expressing belated support for Brahms' Symphony #4, wherein he said something like "its charms do not unfold themselves in a democratic manner." The charms of Shostakovich's 15th don't unfold in a democratic manner, either. 
Interesting- your mention of the concluding rhythms of the final movement. They reminded me of subjective period Ginastera. I look forward to another spin soon.

And (concerning my other motive in starting this thread), I'll quote from a story mentioned by the most-quoted person in history- "...I have done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room."


----------



## robert newman

Written in just over a month, that symphony seems (to me anyway) to be calling for people to listen in its 2 opening movements, quoting (mischievously) such hackneyed music as Rossini’s ‘William Tell’ Overture. A sort of burlesque opening movement. 

I notice from the Wikipedia article on this work - (an online source that has so often been hugely helpful for ready references) - 

‘Ever the humourist, Shostakovich delighted in placing allusions to the works of himself and other composers in his work, and the 15th (last) symphony is particularly rich in quotations. In addition to the cryptic references to his own music, it includes an outburst of Rossini's William Tell Overture in the first movement,. allusions to Mikhail Glinka and Gustav Mahler; and the use of Richard Wagner's ‘Fate’ leitmotif from The Ring Cycle.
Most skilful is his manipulation of the famous grief leitmotif from Wagner's Tristan and Isolde at the end of the fourth movement. Beginning at rehearsal letter 143 in the first violin part, Wagner's famous motif of a rising minor sixth followed by a two note chromatic descent grows organically out of Shostakovich's own theme: a quirky and grotesque reference to the composer's own sense of suffering at his late stage of life, stated towards the close of this semi-autobiographical work.
The composer said in conversation with his friend, Isaak Glikman: "I don't myself quite know why the quotations are there, but I could not, could not, not include them". (Glikman p. 315).

I got the distinct impression when first hearing it of ‘What does he want to call our attention to ‘ - a question that is finally answered with the 3rd and 4th movements and which, till then, plays with us. But that great slow movement, the 3rd and 4th movements - wow ! - they really are almost prophetic. Taking music back to quiet, highly personal, mystical things. 

I remember that the audience in London kept silent after the work was over for some seconds before they erupted in applause. 

With creative and sensitive people like Shostakovich there is no question that great music is still possible, even in these strange times. But summits are nice places to appreciate fresh air, for sure. That work is one in my view. 

Regards


----------



## cato

I have to strongly disagree with you guys.  

First, let me say that I am a HUGE Shostakovich fan, and I love just about everything he wrote, with the exceptions of the 13th, 14th, and 15th symphonies.

I think the 15th, is one of his weaker compostions, and even more suprising in that he knew that death was aproching, and that his time was drawing to a close.

The "William Tell" overture insertion, sounds like a cheap trick, that was thrown in at the last minute, and gives the whole symphony a "burlesque" feel through out.

In light of his really great symphonies, like the 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, and 11th, the 15th sounds like it was just thrown together as some kind of sick joke. 

Maybe he wanted the 15th to be some kind "F___K You" to the Communist Party of the USSR.... a parting shot as he was about to leave this life. To be honest, we will never really know what he wanted to say within that symphony.

But this much is clear (at least in my humble opinion), the 15th does not have the raw power and emotion of his symphonies like the 8th or the 10th. War and communist repression lead him to write some of the greatest works any composers has writen, but for some odd reason, as death stalked him in his final years, he just could not write the symphonies he used to write.

Like I said, I love Shostakovich, but his 15th symphony leaves me cold.


----------



## Guest

> To be honest, we will never really know what he wanted to say within that symphony.


But Cato, we honestly do know exactly what he did say, or at least what the conductors and orchestras let us know--exactly as with any other piece of orchestral music. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. The 15th is quite possibly his finest symphony--I certainly prefer it, myself--and will continue to be fine up to and beyond the day you're ready hear it.


----------



## robert newman

What a pity, Cato, that you should put such great trust in the blatantly faked Shostakovitch 'memoirs' - documents that you believe show his deep hatred of the USSR. In point of fact Shostakovitch hated repression of all kinds. He was definitely NOT highly political. In fact, he did more for the USSR in terms of his music than most composers of the west did for the capitalist system.

Which brings me to the 15th Symphony, a work that you describe as a '"_F___K You" to the Communist Party of the USSR.... a parting shot as he was about to leave this life'. _

Well I've no wish to spark a musical 'Cold War' but I strongly suggest that Shostakovitch did more for ordinary people worldwide in terms of his musical output than virtually any musician of the 20th century. I strongly disagree with the view that his last symphonies are of a poorer standard than his earlier ones. Doesn't the history of music show the opposite (time and time again) that composers actually write better and better music as they mature ? You turn things on their head to argue in this way. Shostakovitch used burlesque type music in the 15th Symphony NOT as some 'anti-communist' statement (since none of the musical allusions that he uses have anything to do with communism or anti-communism) but as parodies of popular music. He draws us in, finally, to a sound world in the finale of that last symphony, the 15th, that is far, far removed from the opening movement. Quite how this work can be interpreted politically escapes me. The 'anti-communist' view of Shostakovitch is simply the product of western Cold War propaganda, nothing more. Ask Shostakovitch's wife, who openly condemns the 'Memoirs' as being complete nonsense. This interpretation of Shostakovtich is most unfair.

Regards


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

My clairvoyance not being what it should be, I can't say whether or not *cato* relied on Volkov's _Testimony_ for his judgements. So that we stay focused on *robert*'s _message_, there is a significant thread of respected, one could even say "mainstream" scholarship that regards _Testimony_ as bogus in its whole cloth.
Do we owe the (purported) Shosty line about Symphony 12 ("the material put up resistance") to Volkov? It's such a good sound-bite, I'd hate to think that it's of dubious authenticity! 
The summation of the "quotations" makes for an interesting thought-game. He quotes an Italian- Rossini, a German- Wagner (in the wake of World War II memories, that probably didn't go over too well with a few comrades)... and the Russian quotes came from-- himself! Peter Gammond had a nice line about Shostakovich: "He kept us, and 'them,' guessing, until the very end."


----------



## robert newman

Let the evidence for and against be produced and the verdict will be straightorward. Shostakovitch wrote literally dozens of pieces FOR the USSR. He wrote none against the USSR. Does that plain fact count ? Surely it DOES count.

Secondly, is there, anywhere, in the entire body of Shostakovitch's writings anywhere that he attacks socialism ? No. There is not.

Thirdly, can Cato (or anyone else) provide evidence that the 15th Symphony of Dimitri Shostakovitch (a symphony written by one of the greatest composers who ever lived) was intended to be a "_F___K You" to the Communist Party of the USSR.... a parting shot as he was about to leave this life'. _ NO, neither Cato nor anyone else can do so. So where, exactly, do Cato and others get these ideas from ? Surely, from the 'Memoirs' of Shostakovitch - a published document which is in fact a blatant fake and on which the falsehoods within it have been proved over and over.

It is true that the search for 'meaning' in music is a feature of music itself. But shall we now argue that Georg Gershiwn's music was, in fact, an anti-capitalist outburst ? Shall we say that the founding documents of the USA are communist, since they call for a 'government by the people and for the people' ?

I rest my case. In the many cases where Shostakovitch refers to conflict in his music only a propagandist of the Cold War would interpret it as 'anti-Communist' or 'anti-capitalist'. The fakery of the 'Memoirs' is yet another example of Cold War propaganda.

Rgds


----------



## cato

I highly respect you guys, and your opinions, and you make some good points. However, I would like clear some things up.

First, no, I do not take Solomon Volkov's words as "the gospel truth". Yes, I have read his "Testimony" and the newer book, "Shostakovich and Stalin". They are interesting works, with a certain point of view.

However, I have also read Elizabeth Wilson's "Shostakovich: A Life Remembered", as well as a few other Bios, some writen by Soviet writers in the late 70's and 80's. Now, one or two books does not the truth make, however, if you take the totality of books and articles writen about him and his life, at no point, can you come to believe that he was anything by a passive anti-communist, which one could almost say decribes the whole population of the USSR from 1917 to 1991.

Why did he only join the communist party late in life? Was that really a free choosing?

Second, yes, most composers get better with age and experence, and music is a matter of taste, but I am just not moved by the 15th symphony, (or the 13th and 14th) as I am by his middle to late works like the 5th and 11th, or the 8th and the 10th.

Lastly, can you really listen to something like the 5th or 10th symphony, and not believe that Shostakovich hated his communist masters?

Is it really "cold-war propaganda" to say that? And is it really "unfair"? To who? Shostakovich? Or the communists who had their boots on the back of his neck?

Let me quote Maxim Gorky in 1917, who directed this at Lenin and his band of communist thugs....

"_Murder and violence are the arguments of despotism. I cannot find harsh enough words to reproach those who try to prove something with bullets, bayonets, or a fist in the face." _*Maxim Gorky, 1917*


----------



## cato

Mr. Robert Newman, I respectfully disagree with you and I wish to ask you two questions.

First, if YOU were Shostakovich, composing during the years, 1926 to 1975.... would YOU (if you were so inclined) write ANYTHING against the USSR?

Second, would YOU ever publish ANYTHING against socialism, say between 1926 to 1975?

That is the weakness of your view.... in a police state, if you value your life, your job, and your family, then you keep your mouth shut, and "go along, to get along". Shostakovich kept quiet, because to do otherwise, was like signing your own death warrent.

And as for writing music "for the USSR", let me ask you this..... if the state is your only employer, who else would buy your music? Were there private music companies in the Soviet Union? No, the state, staffed and ran by the communist party, was the "only game in town". Was he going to sell his works to music firms in the West? No, the communist party would never have let him get away with that. It's not in the spirt of socialism to sell your work on an open market.

Again, you have your view, I have mine, and history will have to judge.


----------



## robert newman

Cato, you are right that we must agree to disagree on this one. I admire the music of Dimitri Shostakovitch as being the work of one of the greatest composers of musical history. To interpret his music as anti-socialist is in my view one reason why his final, greatest symphonies do not yet have such a great value to you. I believe Shostakovitch and every great composer deserves to be appreciated without political bias. A man is judged solely by his works. In this sense I can love Wagner, JS Bach, Zelenka, Schubert and all the great composers without seeing them through capitalist or socialist spectacles. They were of course the creators of works which transcend political discussion. The suggestion that we, in the 21st century, can hear Shostakovitch's 'attack' on socialism in his own creations begs the question of whether anyone in the USSR could do so ? I cannot agree that such things are to be found in his works. 

But I respect your view. Sincerely. Hasn't history already judged ? And, if not, we owe it to Shostakovitch to hear him more.

(p.s. The Cleveland Orchestra are great).


----------



## Guest

One wonders from time to time what Shostakovich's music really sounds like. That is, what do those pitches, those harmonies, those rhythms really sound like, all on their own, without any biography (spurious or not), without any politics (dissident or not), attached to them?

My natural way of listening does not include biography or philosophy, but with Shostakovich, it's hard to avoid hearing things about him and then hearing those things in the music. And when I was a kid, I could hear, or thought I was hearing, all sorts of Soviet things in it. In these post-Memoirs days, we're taught to hear those Soviet things as heavily ironic. When I was a kid, we took 'em straight. The point is the same--extra-musical values are assigned to melodies, harmonies, and rhythms and then Hey Presto! those melodies et cetera are found to have extra-musical meanings! (It would never work in a magic show, would it. "First I put the rabbit in the hat. Then I wave my wand and say the magic words. Then I pull... yes! I pull the rabbit out of the hat!!")

I once read an analysis of the 'Symphony' movement of Prokofiev's _Cantata_ that claimed 1) that it was a perfect example of sonata-allegro form and 2) that it portrays, in detail, a particular battle. But if it's a textbook sonata-allegro (and it is), then its portrayal of a battle must be entirely fortuitous. Either that or almost any sonata-allegro can be said to be portraying a battle, and not just any battle, but THAT battle. Which is absurd, perhaps even patently so.

Better, I think, to stick with themes and development and recapitulation and the like and leave the battles to the soldiers. And the biographers.


----------



## cato

I think I know what the problem is here.

You guys are just looking at Shostakovich's music, strictly from a musical point of view, and Robert Newman from the point of view that Shostakovich being an anti-communist is just "cold-way propaganda."

I take a different view, because I look at books, music, and many other things through the lens of history, and the society in which each artist/author lived.

It would have been immpossable for Tolstoy to have writen his greatest works, without him living in 19th century Russia, under a Tsar, and having seen serfdom up close and personal. (He was a rich landowner, who's family had owned many serfs, and he felt guilty about it.)

Tolstoy, and his great works, were a product of his society, of his time, of his experence.

If Tolstoy were living in 21st century America, he would probably be a stock broker, or the midlevel manger of some big chain reatail store.

It is the same with Shostakovich. You CAN NOT seperate the man from his time, and from his society.

He lived his life in a Police State, he composed his greatest works, knowing full well, that any devation from the "party line" was like signing your own death warrent.

How many of his friends and fellow artists were murdered by communists?

How many were sent to death camps like Koyma?

Can you really seriously say that he composed his music in a vacum?
That he wasn't touched by all that was happening all around him?

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that music, or any art is created in a vacum. And I have a hard time believing that Shostakovich did not burn with rage and hate, as he watched the bodies plie up all around him. The dead were not just his neighbors, they were his friends, and they were put to death and imprisoned by communists. He could not compose freely because of communists..... how could he not be anti-communist to some degree?

Again, we have to agree to disagree.  

Respectfully.


----------



## Guest

cato said:


> ....I look at books, music, and many other things through the lens of history, and the society in which each artist/author lived.
> 
> ....
> 
> It is the same with Shostakovich. You CAN NOT seperate the man from his time, and from his society.


Are you applying this concept across the whole range of classical music, or just to Shostakovich?

If you think it applies generally, in what way does a historical perspective lend any useful information about the interpretation of "absolute music".

Even in the case of "programme music", I can't see that a historical persepective, per se, is necessarily of the slightest relevance. It may be but that's all, and any possible historical aspect is not something that I go looking for anyway.

My viewpoint on Shostakovich's music is that he clearly had to adjust his output in order to fit the requirements of the Communist Overlords, otherwise it would never have seen the light of day. While obviously unhappy it (and who would be?) he managed to meet the requirements of the regime and at the same time produce some great music. Beyond this simple observation, I can't see there's much else to argue about.


----------



## robert newman

Hi there Cato, 

I completely agree that the lives and careers of artists and composers cannot be separated from the historical and other contexts in which they lived and worked. But the other side is that art (the creative things artists and composer do), and which we today appreciate, has clearly transcended its time. It's one of the things art does. And Shostakovitch was a great artist. 

I share with you the revulsion of the huge crimes done in the name of Russian 'communism' though I must ask if you are aware of how Marxism and the creation of the USSR was actually financed, supported and even kept in power by western governments ? Karl Marx also. For example, what of detailed works such as 'Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution' by Antony C. Sutton ? That provides plain, indisputable and very little appreciated evidence that the Communist Party of the USSR was actually the child of powerful vested interests from outside of Russia. We can trace the same elitist origins in bringing to power fascism in Nazi Germany where, again, it was Wall Street bankers and secret societies who brought Hitler, Mussolini and others to their crazy regimes. Such things are plain, historical facts. And they are very disturbing. Communism (as almost everyone knows) was in fact socialism hijacked soon after its successful Revolution in 1917 by the Bolsheviks. The parallels between the horrible regime of Stalin and that of Jesuit colonies in places such as Paraguay are striking and they are not coincidental. They are, in fact, mirror images of one other for the simple reason that both are creations of one and the same sort of people.

I agree that Shostakovitch was deeply unhappy with what he saw and knew about the Soviet regime. But there are American composers and musicians today who are just as deeply unhappy with the hidden agenda of the 'New World Order', the 'official' version of tragedies such as 9.11, the Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay and the countless wars and military ventures of the USA. It's the very hardest thing for an artist or a creative person to keep silent at any time. But perhaps it's an artists lot to show and to remind people that creative things are greater than the forces of destruction or terror (real terrorism or the 'false flag' variety). This in itself is a great characteristic of art. I believe Shostakovitch brilliantly succeeded in practicing these things. He could not have done anything else, as we agree.

To me Shostakovitch speaks out against tyranny and political lies whether those lies were in his own time and place or not. The same is true of Beethoven's great opera 'Fidelio', and others. 

Regards


----------



## cato

OMG Robert Newman! I actually find myself agreeing with you!  

Yes, I read that book more then 20 years ago, and I was not only shocked to find out how Wall Street bankrolled the Bolsheviks, but even more shocked to find out about their support of Hitler and his Nazis. (Henry Ford, of Ford Motor Company, was lavish with his support of Hitler.)

Wow! That book really brings back memories.  

Yes, you are right to a degree, about artists in the West being "unhappy" with the New World Order that is consuming us. (I am not a "happy camper" myself.)

However, there is a HUGE difference with living in the West, and being "unhappy" with current events in your own country, and living in a communist police state, where your life and liberty are under constant threat.

Things are not great in the US, they could be a whole lot better, but I do not as yet feel threatened by my Gov. (Although that day may be just around the bend.)

There is a HUGE difference between "unhappy" and "threatened."

Which is the difference between a composer (like Philip Glass) living in the US in 2007 and being "unhappy" and a composer like Shostakovich living in the USSR in 1937, and being under constant threat.

Thanks for bring up that book, we all owe a debt to Antony C. Sutton.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Me said:


> Shostakovich's 15th Symphony... mentioned by *Robert Newman* (twice) on the "10 favorite symphonies" thread, _and_ mentioned by *Mango* on the "post-1950 masterworks" thread... perhaps we can discuss the unique mastery that is Shostakovich's final symphony





Wotan said:


> ...das schlug fehl! (rough translation: "that didn't work out!")


My thoughts: a) I can't speak for whether or not Shostakovich was pro-or-anti-Socialist/Communist, but I can guess that the musical rendering of Yevtushenko's _A Career_ in the _Babi Yar_ Symphony strongly indicates that his status as anti-apparatchik is beyond argument. b) I continue to think that Symphony 15 isn't that easy a nut to crack. Still, I prefer it to... 14, 12, 9 and likely others. the version I have is the Haitink LSO disc (from the Haitink complete set). What versions have others tried? Anyone willing to make a case for other renditions?


----------



## myaskovsky2002

*Do you like William Tell?*

Do you like William Tell?
Do you like dodecaphonic music alla sovietica?

Then THIS symphony is for you, otherwise forget this total FIASCO. Shostakovich tried to make a dodecaphonic mixture without any success...too old for starting a new style...

What is the opposite of Master piece? a Master pee?

Martin


----------



## Musicbox

Chi_townPhilly said:


> ... the version I have is the Haitink LSO disc (from the Haitink complete set). What versions have others tried? Anyone willing to make a case for other renditions?


It works for me.... The Haitink LSO version is the first one I heard and its sort of imprinted on me. But there are other good ones, none more so than Maxim Shostakovich and the Moscow RSO from 1973, the premiere recording. I've got it on an EMI-Melodiya LP but not sure its ever been available on CD which is a terrible sin. Great sound quality - not what I was expecting from 1970s soviet recording.

Kondrashin's recording from same era (Moscow Phil I think) seems rushed and lacks impact by comparison.

Maxim's recent remake with the Czech Phil (Supraphon I think) has had great reviews. But I wonder if he gets tired of his dad's music?

Ormandy/Philadelphia well worth a listen.

Disappointed by recent Pletnev/Russian National Orch on Pentatone.... too straightfaced.

I don't believe that Shostakovich (or any other Russian) has to be played by Russians to get the best results.


----------



## Musicbox

BTW folks, most people in totalitarian states skate a very thin line between passive acceptance and passive resistance. Its not a clear cut line, its a huge grey area full of nuances that are not clear as it actually happens.

Day-to-day life and concerns are more important than political statements to 99% of people 99% of the time. Shostakovich was in a difficult position as a publicly known artist, but had to try to live all the same, making compromises all the way. Being pro- or anti- anything was not a principle: Paying the rent, feeding the family, meeting the deadline, educating the kids, gaining and retaining the respect of people around you, holding one's place in society, having a career: - all take priority over holding to principle.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Musicbox said:


> I don't believe that Shostakovich (or any other Russian) has to be played by Russians to get the best results.


Like the Royal Scottish National Orchestra! Besides Russians, no one performs Russian music with as much heart/enthusiasm as they do.

Perhaps one day in my life, I will go see them perform a Russian program... a far off dream.


----------



## Musicbox

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Like the Royal Scottish National Orchestra! Besides Russians, no one performs Russian music with as much heart/enthusiasm as they do.
> 
> Perhaps one day in my life, I will go see them perform a Russian program... a far off dream.


.... and by a strange quirk, I am going to see the Royal Scottish National Orchestra tomorrow night perform Rachmaninov's 2nd Symphony! (but actually more interested in Oliver Knussen's Violin Concerto at the same concert - Leila Josefiwicz playing, Stephane Deneve conducting). They are my local band.

The RSNO's recordings of Shostakovich 4, 6 & 10 with Neeme Jarvi are among the best available IMO -but they haven't recorded the 15th.

I saw them do the 15th with Vladimir Fedoseev (sp?) about 16-17 yrs ago. Not bad.


----------



## Rondo

Musicbox said:


> Ormandy/Philadelphia well worth a listen.
> 
> .


Assuming you are referring to Shostakovich's 15th symphony, I agree completely. It is a great performance which stands out on its own, a lot like the Karajan/BPO performance of the 10th symphony.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

*Eh?*

Like the Royal Scottish National Orchestra! Besides Russians, no one performs Russian music with as much heart/enthusiasm as they do.

Perhaps one day in my life, I will go see them perform a Russian program... a far off dream. 

The best for Shostakovich is Rozhdestvensky...He also was a personal friend of the composer. Kirill Kondrashin could also be a wonderful choice. I believe that you have to be Russian to play Russians well...and Soviet to play a Soviet guy as Shostakovich.

Of course this is just MY opinion.

The Scottish is a fine orchestra...Were they with Neeme Jarvi? This is one of the finest conductors I know. His Scriabin is flawless.

Martin


----------



## emiellucifuge

Im also a big fan of Neeme Jarvi


----------



## Musicbox

Neeme Jarvi was Chief Conductor of the SNO (later RSNO) from mid 1980s to early 1990s. They were at their best for him, the Chandos recordings of Shostakovich 1 & 6, 5 & 9, 7, 8, 4, and 10 are clear evidence of this. The 4th & 7th especially - still the best versions available IMO.

He was suceeded by Bryden Thompson who made good recording of Nielsen, Martinu and Rachmaninov Concerti with the RSNO but after his tenure they went into decline IMO under Walter Weller and then Alexander Lazarev..... but now Stephane Devane is raising their game again thank goodness. Just returned home from a concert with them - will put a review in the concerts section shortly.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

cato said:


> I have to strongly disagree with you guys.
> 
> First, let me say that I am a HUGE Shostakovich fan, and I love just about everything he wrote, with the exceptions of the 13th, 14th, and 15th symphonies.
> 
> I think the 15th, is one of his weaker compostions, and even more suprising in that he knew that death was aproching, and that his time was drawing to a close.
> 
> The "William Tell" overture insertion, sounds like a cheap trick, that was thrown in at the last minute, and gives the whole symphony a "burlesque" feel through out.
> 
> In light of his really great symphonies, like the 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, and 11th, the 15th sounds like it was just thrown together as some kind of sick joke.
> 
> Maybe he wanted the 15th to be some kind "F___K You" to the Communist Party of the USSR.... a parting shot as he was about to leave this life. To be honest, we will never really know what he wanted to say within that symphony.
> 
> But this much is clear (at least in my humble opinion), the 15th does not have the raw power and emotion of his symphonies like the 8th or the 10th. War and communist repression lead him to write some of the greatest works any composers has writen, but for some odd reason, as death stalked him in his final years, he just could not write the symphonies he used to write.
> 
> Like I said, I love Shostakovich, but his 15th symphony leaves me cold.


I think like you Cato.

Martin


----------

