# I wrote another waltz



## adrien

Hi everyone

I wrote another waltz again. Pretty happy with how it turned out.

This time I waited until it had gone through a few more revisions before posting here.

Hope you enjoy it, and any feedback gratefully received.

Thanks!


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## Richannes Wrahms

Sounds like Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky had a child.


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## adrien

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Sounds like Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky had a child.


I'll take that as a great compliment, thanks!


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## Vasks

Your bass line writing is weak. You rely too much on root position chords.


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## adrien

Vasks said:


> Your bass line writing is weak. You rely too much on root position chords.


You're right! Thanks.

Not sure what changes to make about that though, except maybe for inverting some of the chords, or following some more melodic path in the bassi?

One of my main issues with this piece is there's basically nothing for the bassi or celli to live for.


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## Vasks

adrien said:


> One of my main issues with this piece is there's basically nothing for the bassi or celli to live for.


Yes, you are correct. Many of the instrumental parts are too simple and repetitive. And while that may be an unavoidable part of writing a basic waltz, it's still something that can be addressed via subtle rhythmic variations and your imagination. Sing through an individual part (preferably not via the score, but via off the part) and you'll quickly feel how the part at any point or thoughout is either interesting or boring.


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## adrien

Vasks said:


> Yes, you are correct. Many of the instrumental parts are too simple and repetitive. And while that may be an unavoidable part of writing a basic waltz, it's still something that can be addressed via subtle rhythmic variations and your imagination. Sing through an individual part (preferably not via the score, but via off the part) and you'll quickly feel how the part at any point or thoughout is either interesting or boring.


In terms of maintaining the pulse, sure I can hand off the bass pulse to other sections occasionally, but for example bassoons can't carry it in heavier sections, and tuba lacks definition it seems. Maybe double tuba with timp (to make a more defined start to the note) in some sections to carry the pulse and free the bassi for other things.

I'll have to percolate on it for a while. Thanks!


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## Vasks

Well, do not go by what your playback tuba sounds like. In reality, it's quite capable of handling a phrase of downbeats that are clear and strong. 

But you see, you've already are not using your imagination. There's no reason any bass playing instrument for a phrase here and there "has to" play on every beat 1. Imagine they play on beat 1 for the 1st measure of an interior phrase but for the next measure, they do not play on beat 1 but rather on beat 2 as a half note.


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## adrien

Vasks said:


> Well, do not go by what your playback tuba sounds like. In reality, it's quite capable of handling a phrase of downbeats that are clear and strong.
> 
> But you see, you've already are not using your imagination. There's no reason any bass playing instrument for a phrase here and there "has to" play on every beat 1. Imagine they play on beat 1 for the 1st measure of an interior phrase but for the next measure, they do not play on beat 1 but rather on beat 2 as a half note.


Fair enough!

Yes I guess in some places even a hole can sound interesting as another option as we will expect a hit on the beat and it will be very loud by its absence.

Do you have a checklist you work through to make sure you've considered everything you want to about a piece you're writing? In the end there always seems to be a lot to consider, and it's easy to overlook things (at least for a novice like me).

Thanks again!


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## adrien

I guess also if you can mute any part in any section and you can't hear the difference, then that part could be playing something else.

Point taken also about limitations of computer rendering. We're (the orchestra I'm in) playing the Prokofiev Vln Concerto #1 this Sunday. It has a substantial tuba part. Maybe it's the player or the room, but it seems like (maybe due to length of pipe) that it takes a while for the sound to come out once you start blowing and that takes the attack off the note?

Do tuba players e.g. anticipate this and play slightly early when marked marcato for example? I know organists often have to play early to account for delay due to distance between pipes and orchestra.


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## Vasks

The lower the tuba note, starting a few notes below the staff, the more a delay there is, but yes, good players know how to anticipate so it feels on the beat.

As for a checklist, no. And I don't think you can be an interesting composer by going by the books (or if you will, using a checklist). It's important to know each instrument's strength and weakness. Period. Otherwise, as long as your imagination takes that into account, you'll write playable yet interesting music.

I've been composing for 50 years and working with instrumental ensembles all that time.


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## anahit

Vasks said:


> Your bass line writing is weak. You rely too much on root position chords.


i personally think more about the harmonic development. even if the bass line is kept, i need some kind of diversity in harmonies. it is to inert and passive.
generally, if you have a very strong bass pedal tone, you can add WHATEVER chords you want above, even atonal, and it will still be stable.


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## adrien

Vasks said:


> The lower the tuba note, starting a few notes below the staff, the more a delay there is, but yes, good players know how to anticipate so it feels on the beat.
> 
> As for a checklist, no. And I don't think you can be an interesting composer by going by the books (or if you will, using a checklist). It's important to know each instrument's strength and weakness. Period. Otherwise, as long as your imagination takes that into account, you'll write playable yet interesting music.
> 
> I've been composing for 50 years and working with instrumental ensembles all that time.


I didn't mean a checklist for composing so much as a list of things to look at before pushing a piece out the door just to make sure nothing is overlooked / forgotten. Not to worry!

I had another go at the bass and cello lines, including giving the celli a strong-ish melody in the diminishing diminished 7th ish section of the first bridge doubled by the bassoons.


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## adrien

hmm, please ignore that last one. I read a forum post about someone complaining about their control room setup, and saying that Windows WDM applies filtering to the sound output. So I checked what Sibelius was sending out through.....WDM. I changed to ASIO, and the frequency balance was completely different (sounded a lot more like how it sounds in the car, which believe it or not is a gold standard for recording engineers to test in .

So ignore that last link, it's a mess (esp the timps). I'm fixing it now.


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## adrien

ok here's an updated one.

I'm sure there are a whole book full of psychoses that come along with composing. Second-guessing oneself for starters


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## adrien

OK, I gave up second guessing myself. Time to own it. This is the piece now, I don't have any more plans for it.


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## Fabulin

Your No. 8 is better than 90% of waltzes in the "classical" repertoire. Roughly equivalent to Sviridov's Snowstorm. I am not joking. Keep up good work.


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## adrien

Fabulin said:


> Your No. 8 is better than 90% of waltzes in the "classical" repertoire. Roughly equivalent to Sviridov's Snowstorm. I am not joking. Keep up good work.


thanks very much! I'll have to have a listen to some Sviridov


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## adrien

Vasks said:


> Your bass line writing is weak. You rely too much on root position chords.


just found this: 




Feeling even more ashamed of my bass writing. I wonder how much you can rely on an orchestral bass section to play stuff like this.


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## Vasks

adrien said:


> Feeling even more ashamed of my bass writing. I wonder how much you can rely on an orchestral bass section to play stuff like this.


There's a difference between writing for string bass and writing a bass line. I was speaking to the latter.

And what one writes for the string bass players in an orchestral work is often not as challenging as what fine string bass players soloists can do.


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