# Wagner's Ring des nibelungen



## svsvdb

hi

i'm a great fan of the ring des nibelungen by wagner.
any other fans?

my complete ring cycles on cd:
-edition Herbert Von Karajan
-edition Georg Solti
-edition Pierre Boulez
-edition James Levine

my complete ring cycles on lp:
-edition Wilhelm Furtwängler
-edition Herbert Von Karajan
-edition Georg Solti

any other good editions available?


----------



## Weston

I think there may be one or two other fans of Wagner on this forum . . .

_Der Ring des Nibelungen_ was my first opera experience and I watched all four operas back to back. It took nearly a week. I was never once bored -- in fact the experience held me captivated.

I must admit to being a little disappointed in the Siegfreid's Death and Funeral music section because I was comparing it to the same music used to far more epic effect in a similar scene in John Boorman's _Excalibur_. It is more epic than the Götterdämmerung production I was watching anyway.


----------



## nickgray

svsvdb said:


> i'm a great fan of the ring des nibelungen by wagner.
> any other fans?


Yes!



svsvdb said:


> any other good editions available?


I'd recommend: Haitink, Bohm, Keilberth ('55, Testament), Goodall (English libretto, really good).


----------



## woodenhead

For me, the Solti is still the recorded cycle to have. He seems to realise that the work is a music _drama_ as well as an epic work. I understand some people feel he overstates the excitement but for me his is a reading that truly returns the cycle to the the narrative arena aftter the Nazi associations and enables the listener to hear the work anew.

However, it is worth supplementing the CD set with the stupendous Boulez/Chereau Bayreuth production on DVD.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Weston said:


> I think there may be one or two other fans of Wagner on this forum . . .


Umm, yeah... hi.

My 'go-to' cycle remains Solti- but Keilberth 1955 contains my favorite _Siegfried_.
Not, I hasten to add, that I think there's anything really wrong with Solti's _Siegfried_.

Since you can get Böhm's _Ring Cycle_ as part of the "Wagner Cube" [a box set titled "Wagner- Great Operas from the Bayreuth Festival," on Decca] and get all 10 canonical Wagner operas for c. $70.00 (or less, haven't checked prices since I got mine over a year ago), the Böhm tops the chart of bargain recommendations.

I normally try not to pan _Ring Cycle_ recordings- but a caution should be entered into the record concerning Haitink and Goodall. The oft-cited stumbling block with the Haitink is a sub-optimal Brünnhilde. _Die Walküre_ and _Götterdämmerung_, particularly, suffer when this condition is present. Goodall is hampered by some truly distortive tempi- especially in _Götterdämmerung_. He takes so much longer than anyone else that once, when calculating average times for certain select Wagner opera recordings, I simply threw his time out. If I'd added it, I would have gotten an average that indicated that _Götterdämmerung_ took longer than _Meistersinger_! 
["The abominable slowman!" once quipped Wagner academic and author John Deathridge.]


----------



## tahnak

woodenhead said:


> For me, the Solti is still the recorded cycle to have. He seems to realise that the work is a music _drama_ as well as an epic work. I understand some people feel he overstates the excitement but for me his is a reading that truly returns the cycle to the the narrative arena aftter the Nazi associations and enables the listener to hear the work anew.
> 
> However, it is worth supplementing the CD set with the stupendous Boulez/Chereau Bayreuth production on DVD.


Visually, Boulez's Ring is good. For the musical punch from the orchestra, no one has improved on Solti. Why is Solti rued for the overstatement of excitement? He has brought vigour and I am sure his is a worthy offering. Many pooh his Mahler's Eighth but frankly I haven't come across a crisper and heavyweight recording than that...


----------



## World Violist

I've been looking at Boulez' Ring cycle (mostly because I think I'll be given the Solti cycle toward the end of this month). Boulez has risen from being one of my very least favorites to one of my top 5 conductors.

I've heard the Bohm Ring (from the Wagner Cube CTP has above mentioned), and while I liked it, it was completely blown out of the water by a Met broadcast of Das Rheingold, James Levine conducting, and it seriously made Bohm's sound practically monochrome as far as how magical the orchestra sounded. I'm not sure about the soloists, but the orchestra seems so much... more in general.


----------



## The J Dog

Weston said:


> I think there may be one or two other fans of Wagner on this forum . . .
> 
> _Der Ring des Nibelungen_ was my first opera experience and I watched all four operas back to back. It took nearly a week. I was never once bored -- in fact the experience held me captivated.
> 
> I must admit to being a little disappointed in the Siegfreid's Death and Funeral music section because I was comparing it to the same music used to far more epic effect in a similar scene in John Boorman's _Excalibur_. It is more epic than the Götterdämmerung production I was watching anyway.


Are you refering to the _Death of Arthur _scene in Excalibur? Do you know what the title of the original music is?


----------



## david johnson

my ring - a mix of solti/karajan on lp and the janowski cd set.

dj


----------



## scytheavatar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/thering/ring_recordings.shtml

This is a very comprehensive and accurate roundup of the current ring offerings available. I especially agree with the "I wonder how many people still manage to survive listening to it through" concerning Solti's Ring, considering how lacking his Walküre is.


----------



## mamascarlatti

david johnson said:


> my ring - a mix of solti/karajan on lp and the janowski cd set.
> 
> dj


I've just finished listening to the janowski set and was entranced (my first listen through as opposed to many watch-throughs).


----------



## Rangstrom

Keilberth '55
Knapppertsbusch '56
Solti
Barenboim DVD
Furtwängler '53 (would be higher if sound were better)
von Karajan
Krauss '53
Levine/Boulez DVD

is probably my order today (it will change). I still have to listen to the budget Böhm that I picked up recently and I'd like to hear the early 40's Met Ring and the '60 Kempe Bayreuth Ring. And there are many individual recordings worth sampling (Haitink Rheingold/Furtwängler studio Walküre/De Billy Rheingold DVD/Mehta Siegfried DVD).


----------



## World Violist

I'm looking at getting this set next month; EMI are re-releasing it at a reduced price for the 125th anniversary of the Ring.










It's the RAI Furwangler Ring, with Martha Modl, Suthaus, and so on.


----------



## Bill H.

Krauss '53 from Bayreuth

The Furtwangler '53 from Rome (I am listening to the '50 La Scala in bits to see how I like it in comparison). 

'55 Keilberth from Bayreuth remains my overall favorite because it is a staged performance, but in decent stereo from the 50s, and with many of the main singers in younger voice than for Solti. I also like Varnay overall as Brunnhilde, but am nearly as fond of Nilsson and Modl.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

mmm.....

Pierre Boulez? Pierre Boulez! Why in heaven have you choosen Pierre Boulez?...pierre boulez....

A very personal interpretation of Der Ring...Very personal Das is not Wagner! It is Boulez' Ring.

Martin


----------



## SixFootScowl

I found a nice summary of the Ring that is helping me as I work my way through my first DVD set. Had I not read this I would have been totally baffled with Walkurie as I am 40 minutes in and have yet to see any clear connection to Rheingold. But with this article giving the missing details of what happens between the two operas I can watch in contentment.

http://www.well.com/user/woodman/singthing/ring/story.html


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I found a nice summary of the Ring that is helping me as I work my way through my first DVD set. Had I not read this I would have been totally baffled with Walkurie as I am 40 minutes in and have yet to see any clear connection to Rheingold. But with this article giving the missing details of what happens between the two operas I can watch in contentment.
> 
> http://www.well.com/user/woodman/singthing/ring/story.html


Why don't you buy a nice book with opera synopsis and date of first performances and more background, you can find these in lots of book stores ,for a good price.


----------



## bigshot

My favorites... Goodall, Furtwangler (both), Keilberth, Karajan, Knappertsbusch 56, Solti, Janowski, Barenboim (not as video) and my favorite video Ring- Mehta...the ones I don't care for as much. Levine (both), Haitink, Boulez (but I like it as a video)


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

I've been collecting _Rings_ for 40 years (gulp!), and I have one full cycle for each of those years. The pedant in me says it should be 38, in that I've doubled-up on Boulez and Barenboim in that I own the CDs and DVDs, but they're different "soundtracks", so I'll count them separately.

Favourites? I might hazard a Top Ten in no particular order: Solti, Karajan, Barenboim, Böhm, Goodall, Keilberth '54, Krauss '53, Janowski (Dresden), Furtwängler (both). That said, every set certainly has its virtues - whether vocal, orchestral or both - and I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. There are one or two exceptions, but I'm too gallant to drop names


----------



## GodotsArrived

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I've been collecting _Rings_ for 40 years (gulp!), and I have one full cycle for each of those years. The pedant in me says it should be 38, in that I've doubled-up on Boulez and Barenboim in that I own the CDs and DVDs, but they're different "soundtracks", so I'll count them separately.
> 
> Favourites? I might hazard a Top Ten in no particular order: Solti, Karajan, Barenboim, Böhm, Goodall, Keilberth '54, Krauss '53, Janowski (Dresden), Furtwängler (both). That said, every set certainly has its virtues - whether vocal, orchestral or both - and I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. There are one or two exceptions, but I'm too gallant to drop names


Well said. Given the number of Brit-o-philes here, I was surprised no one had thus far mentioned Goodall. Under-rated; unlike many today who shall remain nameless, a conductor who spoke through his music rather than his ego.


----------



## Pugg

GodotsArrived said:


> Well said. Given the number of Brit-o-philes here, I was surprised no one had thus far mentioned Goodall. Under-rated; unlike many today who shall remain nameless, a conductor who spoke through his music rather than his ego.


With all respect, if you read all the Wagner threads you find plenty of Goodall talking.


----------



## bigshot

I listed Goodall first on my list. A lot of the reason I love that set so much is for Hunter and Remedios. They are the ones that don't get enough credit.


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

bigshot said:


> I listed Goodall first on my list. A lot of the reason I love that set so much is for Hunter and Remedios. They are the ones that don't get enough credit.


Great singers, both, and Goodall's expansive tempi really allow their beautiful voices to bloom. The rest of the cast is pretty special too: Norman Bailey (Wotan), Derek Hammond-Stroud (Alberich), Gregory Dempsey (Mime), Ann Howard (Fricka), Margaret Curphey (Sieglinde) and Norman Wellsby (Gunther), to name a chosen few. I mention these in particular because each gives a superb account of their respective roles, among the very best on record in my opinion. So, too, do Hunter and Remedios, of course.


----------



## Barbebleu

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I've been collecting _Rings_ for 40 years (gulp!), and I have one full cycle for each of those years. The pedant in me says it should be 38, in that I've doubled-up on Boulez and Barenboim in that I own the CDs and DVDs, but they're different "soundtracks", so I'll count them separately.
> 
> Favourites? I might hazard a Top Ten in no particular order: Solti, Karajan, Barenboim, Böhm, Goodall, Keilberth '54, Krauss '53, Janowski (Dresden), Furtwängler (both). That said, every set certainly has its virtues - whether vocal, orchestral or both - and I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. There are one or two exceptions, but I'm too gallant to drop names


Keilberth '54? Sure you don't mean '55?


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Barbebleu said:


> Keilberth '54? Sure you don't mean '55?


Good catch! If only I had a complete recording of Keilberth's 1954 _Ring_, I'd be a very happy bunny 

I meant his 1955 cycle, of course. Slip of the finger.


----------



## Pugg

Barbebleu said:


> Keilberth '54? Sure you don't mean '55?


Sharp as ever.


----------



## Barbebleu

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Good catch! If only I had a complete recording of Keilberth's 1954 _Ring_, I'd be a very happy bunny
> 
> I meant his 1955 cycle, of course. Slip of the finger.


Me too. That and Kna's '55 Parsifal would be quite the coup. I have the '54 Walkure and it's not the best quality but in the absence of anything better it will suffice unto the day.


----------



## DavidA

There is no perfect Ring cycle nor could there be. The challenge of the thing in casting and recording is really quite incredible. The best conducted and played and recorded Ring has to be Karajan's. However, there are some quirks of casting which some find more difficult than I do. 
Solti's is of course the most famous with a fabulously cast and conducted Gotterdamerung. But his Wotan (Hotter) is a distinct liability in parts of Siegfried as his voice had by then almost gone and in Walkure it is disastrous in spite of his experience and artistry. Nilsson is a phenomenon but I do find her somewhat chilly.
I find Janowski 1 a pretty good all round set although Altmeyer's Brunnhilde is a bit strained.
Bohm is very swift and I don't like the Bayreuth recording. But he certainly strikes sparks. The cast is pretty good although somewhat elderly by that time. Some swear by it but not me.
Krauss would be the ideal Ring if it had been recorded by Decca engineers 10 years later. As it is the sound is just not up to modern standards. But a great performance with a great cast all the same. Listen to the real Hotter Wotan here!


----------



## SixFootScowl

Here is a Ring that has not been mentioned yet. 









https://www.melbarecordings.com.au/catalogue/album/wagner-der-ring-des-nibelungen


----------



## SixFootScowl

This appears to be one excellent Ring. This one from 1968 live performance. (sound clips to Walkure):









Can get the whole ring in this live performance, but it will be expensive, about $278 plus $16 shipping on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5D2
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5DC
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ12
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ1C

But if you open the four links given in this page There is a streaming link for each opera and you can listen to all of it.


----------



## Barbebleu

Florestan said:


> This appears to be one excellent Ring. This one from 1968 live performance. (sound clips to Walkure):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can get the whole ring in this live performance, but it will be expensive, about $278 plus $16 shipping on Amazon.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5D2
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5DC
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ12
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ1C
> 
> But if you open the four links given in this page There is a streaming link for each opera and you can listen to all of it.


Opera depot have it cheaper.

https://operadepot.com/search?type=product&q=Roma+1968


----------



## SixFootScowl

Weston said:


> *I think there may be one or two other fans of Wagner on this forum .* . .


:lol: Understatement of the century! :lol:


----------



## SixFootScowl

Barbebleu said:


> Opera depot have it cheaper.
> 
> https://operadepot.com/search?type=product&q=Roma+1968


But cheaper yet is the free streaming links above!


----------



## Scopitone

Florestan said:


> :lol: Understatement of the century! :lol:


:lol: #Truth :lol:


----------



## Pugg

Scopitone said:


> :lol: #Truth :lol:


Sometimes we need a bit of light-hearted things....


----------



## Barbebleu

Barbebleu said:


> Opera depot have it cheaper.
> 
> https://operadepot.com/search?type=product&q=Roma+1968


The date and venue seemed to ring a bell in my mind so I went into my iTunes database and to my surprise, although pleasantly so, I already have this set. Purchased about 18 months ago and still not listened to! I need to stop buying stuff. I think it was in one of operaDepots 50% off sales so I grabbed it at the time. Your enthusiasm has pushed it up the list for attention.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Not finding anywhere else to post this, so what has Meistersinger have to do with the Ring?

The God's Day Off

What to you think?


----------



## SixFootScowl

What does anyone think of these Valkyries?


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> What does anyone think of these Valkyries?


Atrocious, I wouldn't booed but left the house.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Atrocious, I wouldn't booed but left the house.


I don't care for the concept, but if they are to be Valkyries, they should at least be in black leather jackets on big motorcycles. I still won't watch.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I don't care for the concept, but if they are to be Valkyries, they should at least be in black leather jackets on big motorcycles.


I am sure Wagner turned in his grave is he saw this.


----------



## Barbebleu

Florestan said:


> What does anyone think of these Valkyries?


The (bike) Ride of the Walküre! Incidentally what production is this Flo?


----------



## timh

Florestan said:


> What does anyone think of these Valkyries?


Wagner's Ring cycles.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Barbebleu said:


> The (bike) Ride of the Walküre! Incidentally what production is this Flo?


Here is the link: https://kurier.at/kultur/radelnde-walkueren-im-marathon/78.483.773
Google translator give me this for a sub heading:


> The Tyrolean Festival Erl made Richard Wagner's "Ring des Nibelungen" in just 24 hours.


From what I can tell they did the ring cycle straight through the night.

It is linked off this page: http://www.scoop.it/t/opera-classical-music-news/?tag=Der+Ring


----------



## Pugg

timh said:


> Wagner's Ring cycles.


A bit naughty but fun


----------



## SixFootScowl

Just found this discography site for Wagner and they list a lot or Ring cycles:

https://wagnerdisco.net/


----------



## SixFootScowl

Check this out for top rated Ring cycles. They have top 3 studio, top 3 live, and top 3 overall. Do you generally agree, disagree or what? What cycles do you think should be in those top 3.

http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2014/03/the-best-ring-cycle-of-all-time-winners.html


----------



## Brahmsianhorn

For me it is always performance over sound. Over time, sound quality becomes less important.

1. Furtwangler 1950
2. Furtwangler 1953
3. Knappertsbusch 1956
4. Krauss 1953
5. Keilberth 1955
6. Bohm
7. Solti


----------



## SixFootScowl

Brahmsianhorn said:


> For me it is always performance over sound. Over time, sound quality becomes less important.
> 
> 1. Furtwangler 1950
> 2. Furtwangler 1953
> 3. Knappertsbusch 1956
> 4. Krauss 1953
> 5. Keilberth 1955
> 6. Bohm
> 7. Solti


So of those you have listed, I believe the sound quality is quite good for Bohm and Solti, but I see them at the bottom of your list, though that list may not be in order of preference.

But of the first five, which is the best sound? I am curious because I am listening to a very good remaster of Krauss right now. It is very good, but sound quality is not quite where I like it. Would Keilberth, Kna or one of the Furts be better?


----------



## Brahmsianhorn

Unfortunately neither Furt is well recorded. Kna, Krauss, and Keilberth are all a step up in sound quality. The Keilberth is stereo, and might be the best choice of the early Rings based on just that alone. However, the new Orfeo remastering of the Krauss is so good that I must say it may be the best Ring of all when performance and sound are weighed equally. It really depends on how much you value stereo over mono. Otherwise to my ear the Keilberth and newly remastered Krauss sound roughly equal sonicly, with Krauss getting the nod for being a more engaging performance.

Frankly after these earlier recordings, Solti and Bohm bore me too much despite the superior sound quality. In fact I consider the Solti the only one of the two worth having just so I can have a top notch sounding Ring if I ever need it. If these were the only two Rings available however, I would choose Bohm.

Of course for me Furtwangler's 1950 La Scala Ring still draws me in like no other. With an opera tale this long, sound quality concern diminishes over time, and you want a performance that keeps you engaged. The Gebhardt release has the best sound. It's not that the sound quality is bad to distraction. It's just not on par with the others mentioned.


----------



## DarkAngel

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Unfortunately neither Furt is well recorded. Kna, Krauss, and Keilberth are all a step up in sound quality. The Keilberth is stereo, and might be the best choice of the early Rings based on just that alone. However, the new Orfeo remastering of the Krauss is so good that I must say it may be the best Ring of all when performance and sound are weighed equally. It really depends on how much you value stereo over mono. Otherwise to my ear the Keilberth and newly remastered Krauss sound roughly equal sonicly, with Krauss getting the nod for being a more engaging performance.
> 
> Frankly after these earlier recordings, Solti and Bohm bore me too much despite the superior sound quality. In fact I consider the Solti the only one of the two worth having just so I can have a top notch sounding Ring if I ever need it. If these were the only two Rings available however, I would choose Bohm.
> 
> Of course for me Furtwangler's 1950 La Scala Ring still draws me in like no other. With an opera tale this long, sound quality concern diminishes over time, and you want a performance that keeps you engaged. The Gebhardt release has the best sound. It's not that the sound quality is bad to distraction. It's just not on par with the others mentioned.


Latest Orfeo Krauss and Gebhardt Furtwangler Rings have been surpassed in sound quality (I used to own them) by the amazing restorations of Andrew Rose for Pristine XR, makes them even more valuable Rings by uncovering large amounts of fine detail previously masked or obscured, it is quite remarkable and a gift from the opera god for wagner fans.....

There are extended high quality sound samples at Pristine website, reviewer comments:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Apr10/wagner_ring_paco039-41.htm


----------



## SixFootScowl

Hey what goes on here. Looks like both these sets used the same basic artwork:


----------



## Brahmsianhorn

I got the 1957 Knappertsbusch and was blown away. This may be the best Ring in terms of performance plus sound. You can get all four operas separately for about $60 on Amazon.


----------



## Vox Gabrieli

Excellent choices!


----------



## SixFootScowl

In case anyone is thinking of buying the Janowski set, it is in this big box (this is how I got it), which is available for a reasonable price (as low as £23.10 on Amazon.UK):









It is a fun set as you can see by the contents listed on the back cover. Albeit, not all are great recordings (e.g., Levine's Hollander as I recall is said to be mediocre.)

Original jackets cardboard sleeves make this set very nice:


----------



## wkasimer

Fritz Kobus said:


> In case anyone is thinking of buying the Janowski set, it is in this big box (this is how I got it), which is available for a reasonable price (as low as £23.10 on Amazon.UK):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a fun set as you can see by the contents listed on the back cover. Albeit, not all are great recordings (e.g., Levine's Hollander as I recall is said to be mediocre.)


This is an odd set, because BMG has never been very eager to record Wagner, probably because the Leinsdorf Lohengrin was a financial disaster. But it's worth having for any number of recordings, not least of which is Gosta Winbergh's recording of Wagnerian excerpts - the original separate CD was only available as an import, and I think that I paid close to $25 for that disc alone.

The Hollander recording with Levine is well cast but painfully slow. There's no Tristan and no Tannhauser. Meistersinger is represented by a recording that suffers mightily from Otto Wiener's Sachs. The Lohengrin isn't very well cast (Konya aside), but the sonics are excellent, and the BSO is fabulous. But the set is also a good way to hear some great historic material from Flagstad, Melchior, and Traubel. If I didn't already have all of it except for the orchestral "bleeding hunks", I'd snap it up in a second at that price.


----------



## Granate

For the Janowski Sony Ring, one of my favourites in stereo and definetely the ring with the best sound quality (not counting present and future SACD releases), I would prefer to get the new 2016 remasters even if they cost 40€ altogether.


----------



## wkasimer

Fritz Kobus said:


> This appears to be one excellent Ring. This one from 1968 live performance. (sound clips to Walkure):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can get the whole ring in this live performance, but it will be expensive, about $278 plus $16 shipping on Amazon.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5D2
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5DC
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ12
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ1C


This is a good cycle; the Siegfried performance is one of my favorite recordings of the opera, very well cast, and in excellent sound.

I bought my copy from Norbeck, Peters, and Ford, and I see that they still have copies, selling for $9.99. Not sure whether the rest of this Ring is also still available on their site.


----------



## Granate

Fritz Kobus said:


> This appears to be one excellent Ring. This one from 1968 live performance.
> 
> Can get the whole ring in this live performance, but it will be expensive, about $278 plus $16 shipping on Amazon.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5D2
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BLI5DC
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ12
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1OZ1C
> 
> But if you open the four links given in this page There is a streaming link for each opera and you can listen to all of it.




Opera Depot has it (although I think the Rheingold is in mono instead of stereo. It was a possible purchase during sales for my Mono challenge, but the cast was so similar to the rings of the late 60s in stereo that I gave up.


----------



## Oakey

Already posted this in the bargains thread, and I know not all of you are fans of Karajan's Ring but for those who are, the 14CD DG Eloquence release is now available for €21.99 at dodax.nl including P&P.


----------



## Biffo

Granate said:


> For the Janowski Sony Ring, one of my favourites in stereo and definetely the ring with the best sound quality (not counting present and future SACD releases), I would prefer to get the new 2016 remasters even if they cost 40€ altogether.


Interesting to hear your opinion. I bought Rheingold when it was first issued on LP and it is very fine. For various reasons I never followed up with the rest. A few years ago I bought Walkure as a bargain price download; the sound was ropey (possibly because it was mp3) and Theo Adam sounded to have gone right off (far better for Bohm). I have the Wagner box above but haven't had a chance to sample The Ring - will have to give it a try very soon.


----------



## SixFootScowl

wkasimer said:


> This is a good cycle; the Siegfried performance is one of my favorite recordings of the opera, very well cast, and in excellent sound.
> 
> I bought my copy from Norbeck, Peters, and Ford, and I see that they still have copies, selling for $9.99. Not sure whether the rest of this Ring is also still available on their site.


Yep, I saw that offer and got Rheingold, Siegfried, and Gotterdammerung for $9.99 each--brand new! Sadly no Walkure. I ordered the Walkure for $50 off of Alibris and in two days was told the seller did not have it and was refunded.


----------



## SixFootScowl

What is with this edition? They switched out conductors for one of the operas.


----------



## Granate

^^

My opinion of the individual operas:

DR Keilberth 52 - Fine
DW Furtwängler WPO - Meh
SF Keilberth 53 - Top!
GDR Keilberth 52 - Top!

The problem is that it's impossible to take Mödl and Varnay as the same character in a single cycle. Their styles are too different.

Not my pick if I went for a cheap Membran release.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Here is a real oddball recording technology: Complete Krauss Ring on only 7 CDs.


















It is discussed in this article. A quote regarding the recording and playback:


> ...a new wrinkle in digital technology called the double-duration disk. The trick is achieved by recording separate monaural information on each channel of what in a conventional stereo recording would take two channels.
> 
> Technically, according to audio experts, this results in no loss of fidelity whatsoever, assuming you're dealing with an original monaural source; the digital information in a single channel is fully adequate for reproducing monaural sound.
> 
> To play these disks, you need a simple switching device that feeds mono sound signals on one channel into both of your speakers. [or flip the balance control to one channel at a time]


----------



## SixFootScowl

Only $40.25 at Presto on sale!


----------



## bigshot

I have a question on the van Zweden Ring... I've been buying the multichannel version but it appears that the outer two operas are on blu-ray and the middle ones on DVD-A. Why is that? Have blu-ray versions of the middle operas been released? That's what I'm looking for.


----------



## Adamus

Fritz Kobus said:


> Only $40.25 at Presto on sale!
> 
> Qobuz download (EU only?) 4,75 euro's


----------



## DavidA

Fritz Kobus said:


> What is with this edition? They switched out conductors for one of the operas.


Probably because Furtwangler's only studio version of the Ring was this one. The cast, however, leaves a lot to be desired


----------



## Merl

A mate of mine (whose son works at a garage) gave me USB stick the other day and told me it was full of "that classical ***** that you like" and was left in a car he was selling. Just opened it and it's rammed with 32GB of operas, string quartets and symphonies (with the worst tagging youve ever seen). Noticed straight away that the Haitink Ring was on there (320k). I may even give it a go. Not tried any Wagner operas for years. Will i enjoy it, Fritz? Lol


----------



## Becca

Merl said:


> Noticed straight away that the Haitink Ring was on there (320k). I may even give it a go. Not tried any Wagner operas for years. Will i enjoy it, Fritz? Lol


A generally good cast with the same Wotan, James Morris, as on Levine's Ring which was recorded around the same time. However I remembered a big issue, so here from a review...

"I have left Eva Marton's Brünnhilde to the last and hers is the achievement that is most problematic. No one can deny that she has the grand voice for the role and she has many moments of deep-probing insights.. *But* - and the extra bold type is intentional, since it is a strong but - very little of her singing is attractive as pure singing. Her once glorious instrument had by the late 1980s lost much of its lustre and steadiness. Following her through almost four years, from Die Walküre, recorded in February and March 1988 to Götterdämmerung recorded in November 1991, the vocal decline is obvious. The tone becomes more occluded and - most annoying of all - the already over-generous vibrato develops more and more into a wobble."


----------



## SixFootScowl

Merl said:


> A mate of mine (whose son works at a garage) gave me USB stick the other day and told me it was full of "that classical ***** that you like" and was left in a car he was selling. Just opened it and it's rammed with 32GB of operas, string quartets and symphonies (with the worst tagging youve ever seen). Noticed straight away that the Haitink Ring was on there (320k). I may even give it a go. Not tried any Wagner operas for years. Will i enjoy it, Fritz? Lol
> 
> View attachment 110167


I never heard this one, but I would go with Becca's note. I do like Morris as Wotan. But I am kind of hooked on Behrens for Brunnhilde. However, lately I have been favoring the Goodall sung-in-English ring.


----------



## bigshot

There isn't a heck of a lot of electricity in Haitink's conducting, but he isn't that kind of a conductor. For operas that last so long, it's nice to have a little jolt of energy injected once in a while.


----------



## wkasimer

Becca said:


> A generally good cast with the same Wotan, James Morris, as on Levine's Ring which was recorded around the same time. However I remembered a big issue, so here from a review...
> 
> "I have left Eva Marton's Brünnhilde to the last and hers is the achievement that is most problematic. No one can deny that she has the grand voice for the role and she has many moments of deep-probing insights.. *But* - and the extra bold type is intentional, since it is a strong but - very little of her singing is attractive as pure singing. Her once glorious instrument had by the late 1980s lost much of its lustre and steadiness. Following her through almost four years, from Die Walküre, recorded in February and March 1988 to Götterdämmerung recorded in November 1991, the vocal decline is obvious. The tone becomes more occluded and - most annoying of all - the already over-generous vibrato develops more and more into a wobble."


Marton is certainly the biggest problem with this RING recording, but there are a number of other casting flaws in key roles. Theo Adam should never have sung Alberich, and by the time this was recorded, probably shouldn't have been singing anything at all. Likewise, John Tomlinson's transition from Wotan to Hagen isn't a positive. And Reiner Goldberg is a pretty dull Siegmund.

It's a shame, because there are a couple of really fine performances in this set - but too often one has to tune out some of the other people on the aural stage. Studer's Sieglinde is one of her best recordings, and Morris sings well, even if he's not the most interesting Wotan. And it's nice to hear the genuinely musical Siegfried Jerusalem in the last two operas. But the only parts of this RING that I listen to with any regularity are Siegfried Act 1 and Act 3 until Brunnhilde wakes up and spoils the show, and the first forty or so minutes of Goetterdammerung Act 3.


----------



## Kiki

Zweden's HK Ring is now listed at £35.70 at Presto, and £32.70 at MDT. For those of us who don't pay VAT, it's even more of a bargain.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Here is *a free-to-watch ring cycle with English subtitles*. They do suggest donations.



> In 2016, Opera North's extraordinary journey through Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen came full circle, in a series of six full Ring cycles. Comprising the four operas which make up Wagner's epic masterpiece, Das Rheingold, Die Walküre, Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, more than 15 unforgettable hours of music and passion are now also available online, in full, for free.


----------



## apricissimus

I think I'm an open-minded person, but I have a hard time watching Der Ring when the gods, et al., are dressed in modern attire. (I know I'm far from alone in this.) It seems like the recorded video productions of "modern" Ring cycle far outnumber the traditional ones. I find this a bit strange.

Maybe if you're really used to traditional productions, and you've seen a lot of them, you're ready for something new and different. I'm not there yet.


----------



## apricissimus

Or maybe it's just cheaper to put people in business suits and stuff than to create fancy Norse god costumes. I don't know.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Or you consider it to be a semi-staged production and enjoy it for the music with subtitles to help follow along.


----------



## SixFootScowl

I am going to have to give this ring a listen. It is the first Ring I ever had, came as part of a compete Wagner set.

Reviews:

http://www.wagnerdiscography.com/reviews/rin/rin93neuhold.htm

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11030/










*Image of back cover.*


----------



## SixFootScowl

What does anybody make of this ring which is on sale at the moment. Unfortunately it is abridged. If it is a good ring, maybe they have it complete at Opera Depot.



> 7679-7 DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN (Wagner)
> Price: $41.93
> Sale Price: $17.94
> Quantity:
> 7679-7 DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN (Wagner)
> Abridged 7 Disc Box Set - Leider, Schorr, Ljungberg, Widdop, Austral, Melchior, Olszewska, Andresen; Blech, Coates, Heger, Alwin, Barbirolli, Collingwood (7 CDs)


----------



## Kreisler jr

Could this be a "pirate" of the "Potted Ring" from the 1930s that was released on PEARL in the 1990s?


----------



## Barbebleu

Kreisler jr said:


> Could this be a "pirate" of the "Potted Ring" from the 1930s that was released on PEARL in the 1990s?


You may have the right of it!:lol:


----------



## Kreisler jr

There certainly must be an overlap with this HMV Potted Ring because of the artists mentioned. Of course the source might be an own transfer or an older LP transfer of these historical recordings. They are legendary because of the singers but I had to realize that I never listened to it because of the historical sound, so I sold it. The Pearl set can be rare/expensive.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Ok. I removed the source website from my post to avoid copyright issues.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Last night I bought the Van Zweden Hong Kong Naxos complete Ring. I already had the 2 hour 20 minutes Highlights disc and it didn't do much for me. But because of all the chat about how good this cycle is, I streamed it and became a convert.

I got it as a 16 bit CD quality download from Qobuz for £28. (should have got it when they had a Naxos sale on a short while ago).

Very pleased with it. Currently listening to Die Walküre Act II.

Also pleased with the complete librettos with side by side English translations.

I keep forgetting that it's actually a live recording.

Glad that the singers are quite forward (a strength in Karajan's Ring, too). The singers are very good, given they are modern and not from the platinum era of the 40s & 50s.


----------



## SixFootScowl

^  As if I don't already have enough rings (13+) but now I have to check this one out!


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> Last night I bought the Van Zweden Hong Kong Naxos complete Ring. I already had the 2 hour 20 minutes Highlights disc and it didn't do much for me. But because of all the chat about how good this cycle is, I streamed it and became a convert.
> 
> I got it as a 16 bit CD quality download from Qobuz for £28. (should have got it when they had a Naxos sale on a short while ago).
> 
> Very pleased with it. Currently listening to Die Walküre Act II.
> 
> Also pleased with the complete librettos with side by side English translations.
> 
> I keep forgetting that it's actually a live recording.
> 
> Glad that the singers are quite forward (a strength in Karajan's Ring, too). The singers are very good, given they are modern and not from the platinum era of the 40s & 50s.
> ]


Ok, I nailed a copy. See here.


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> Last night I bought the Van Zweden Hong Kong Naxos complete Ring. I already had the 2 hour 20 minutes Highlights disc and it didn't do much for me. But because of all the chat about how good this cycle is, I streamed it and became a convert.
> 
> I got it as a 16 bit CD quality download from Qobuz for £28. (should have got it when they had a Naxos sale on a short while ago).
> 
> Very pleased with it. Currently listening to Die Walküre Act II.
> 
> Also pleased with the complete librettos with side by side English translations.
> 
> I keep forgetting that it's actually a live recording.
> 
> Glad that the singers are quite forward (a strength in Karajan's Ring, too). The singers are very good, given they are modern and not from the platinum era of the 40s & 50s.


For any who have doubts about this Ring:

"(Wagner Ring cycle CD) There is the conducting of Jaap van Zweden, which is fully alive to all the nuances of the score and whose pacing often yields dividends in unexpected places, such as his sense of forward movement in the Act One interlude that can so often hang fire between its detached phrases."
Paul Corfield Godfrey, MusicWeb International
February 2019

"(Wagner Ring cycle CD) With all four operas of the Hong Kong Ring in front of us, it is clear that the linchpin is the conductor, Jaap van Zweden. He has rehearsed his players to form a credible Wagner orchestra and exerts a formidable grip on the drama. This Götterdämmerung, the last instalment, is urgent, feisty and impassioned."
Richard Fairman, Financial Times
December 2018

"(Wagner Götterdämmerung CD) Some elements have remained at a high standard throughout - namely the quality of the playing of the Hong Kong Philharmonic, in particular the authority of Jaap van Zweden's conducting. His control of the huge musical and dramatic paragraphs of Götterdämmerung is always confident, and the orchestral set pieces - the Rhine Journey and Siegfried's Funeral March - have an undeniably impressive dramatic presence." 
Andrew Clements, The Guardian
November 2018

"(Wagner Götterdämmerung CD) The Dutch conductor Jaap van Zweden, the music director of the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra, deserves an award for steering his players through initially unfamiliar music with such a firm hand and sustained panache."
Geoff Brown, The Times
November 2018

Source: https://www.hkphil.org/review/jaap-van-zwden

"One of the most sustained and remarkable achievements in all of music, the tetralogy is performed by an all-star cast, conducted by the new music director of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, Jaap van Zweden, in performances that have been critically acclaimed worldwide for their "thrilling sense of drama." (The Sunday Times, London)"
https://www.arkivmusic.com/products/wagner-der-ring-des-nibelungen-van-68365

And a longer general review:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jan/Wagner_ring_8501403.htm
Which closes noting that "It's a budget price Ring but not a budget performance, and if it is an indication of Wagner performance in our time, then it's a welcome reason to be cheerful."


----------



## SixFootScowl

I am really liking this one. Am on my fourth trip through since last week.


----------



## SixFootScowl

So I am wondering why the Zagrosek Ring on CD is not sold as a complete cycle, but just the separate operas, yet the video is sold as a single set for the cycle.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Granate said:


> For the Janowski Sony Ring, one of my favourites in stereo and definetely the ring with the best sound quality (not counting present and future SACD releases), I would prefer to get the new 2016 remasters even if they cost 40€ altogether.


Good review on Janowski's first Ring recording *at this site*.


----------



## Granate

:lol:

That's an old post of mine. No, I would have enough with the Bargain Sony edition and still I did not purchase it.


----------



## Barbebleu

Given SixFoot and Henry’s enthusiasm for Zweden’s Ring Cycle I gave Rheingold a go. Based on Rheingold I doubt I’ll be spending any more time with this cycle. I found the conducting pedestrian and the overall quality of the singing mediocre with the possible exception of Goerne. I know I’m probably a fuddy-duddy reactionary immersed in the past but I haven’t heard Wagner sung by modern singers that approaches, far less surpasses, anything done by anyone in the last twenty to thirty years. I’m not looking for a new Melchior or Flagstad but I’d settle for a Dernesch and Thomas! Sorry, not for me. Back to Bayreuth 1976 it is.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Barbebleu said:


> Given SixFoot and Henry's enthusiasm for Zweden's Ring Cycle I gave Rheingold a go. Based on Rheingold I doubt I'll be spending any more time with this cycle. I found the conducting pedestrian and the overall quality of the singing mediocre with the possible exception of Goerne. I know I'm probably a fuddy-duddy reactionary immersed in the past but I haven't heard Wagner sung by modern singers that approaches, far less surpasses, anything done by anyone in the last twenty to thirty years. I'm not looking for a new Melchior or Flagstad but I'd settle for a Dernesch and Thomas! Sorry, not for me. Back to Bayreuth 1976 it is.


I like the Zweden Ring a lot, but like Zagrosek's Ring even more.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Of all my commercial Rings my favorites include,

Sawallisch 1989
Sawallisch 1968
Zagrosek

If I include Opera Depot (OD) and sound tracks from DVDs, then also include these

Levine live from DVD
Horst Stein 1971 (OD)

My second tier includes the following,

Goodall
Swarowsky
van Zweden
Simone Young
Bohm
Barenboim
Janowski (earlier recording)


----------



## HenryPenfold

Barbebleu said:


> Given SixFoot and Henry's enthusiasm for Zweden's Ring Cycle I gave Rheingold a go. Based on Rheingold I doubt I'll be spending any more time with this cycle. I found the conducting pedestrian and the overall quality of the singing mediocre with the possible exception of Goerne. I know I'm probably a fuddy-duddy reactionary immersed in the past but I haven't heard Wagner sung by modern singers that approaches, far less surpasses, anything done by anyone in the last twenty to thirty years. I'm not looking for a new Melchior or Flagstad but I'd settle for a Dernesch and Thomas! Sorry, not for me. Back to Bayreuth 1976 it is.


Only just seen this.

Setting the bar at performances from the past is perfectly legitimate, but it does rather mean that anything contemporary is going to come up short.

The Van Zweden Ring does actually get better as it goes along, partly because as the project went on and word got around, they were able to attract better singers. And it's fair to say the orchestra needed a bit of time and further experience to better internalise the Wagner idiom. I don't blame you for quitting if you're not enjoying what you hear, but it does mean you miss out on the better performances that follow Rheingold.

But life's too short to spend too much time on the _wrong_ Ring!!


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> The Van Zweden Ring does actually get better as it goes along, partly because as the project went on and word got around, they were able to attract better singers. And it's fair to say the orchestra needed a bit of time and further experience to better internalise the Wagner idiom. I don't blame you for quitting if you're not enjoying what you hear, but it does mean you miss out on the better performances that follow Rheingold.


This may explain why it ended up in my second tier above.


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> But life's too short to spend too much time on the _wrong_ Ring!!


I only know of one wrong Ring. *This one!*


----------



## HenryPenfold

SixFootScowl said:


> I only know of one wrong Ring. *This one!*


I'm lost! Which one are you referring to?


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> I'm lost! Which one are you referring to?


It is a live link, just click it.


----------



## HenryPenfold

SixFootScowl said:


> It is a live link, just click it.


I clicked it and it took me to posts 1-9 om the Wagner on DVD and Blu-ray thread where they are talking about Tannhäuser. Hence my query.


----------



## Art Rock

Linking to a post is not as straightforward as you'd think. It may help to check how to link to a post:

Tips, Tricks and Workarounds


----------



## Barbebleu

HenryPenfold said:


> I clicked it and it took me to posts 1-9 om the Wagner on DVD and Blu-ray thread where they are talking about Tannhäuser. Hence my query.


Look at post #479 in the same thread. That's where the link took me.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Barbebleu said:


> Look at post #479 in the same thread. That's where the link took me.


It will remain a mystery to me. I'll get over it!


----------



## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> It will remain a mystery to me. I'll get over it!


I never had that problem before but to clear up the mystery I will post the direct image of the atrocity here. The guy on the cover I am told is Siegfried!


----------



## HenryPenfold

The music better be better than the box!


----------



## Kiki

SixFootScowl said:


> I never had that problem before but to clear up the mystery I will post the direct image of the atrocity here. The guy on the cover I am told is Siegfried!


Many years ago, I saw a neck tie in Boulez's Ring when it was shown on TV. I thought that was avant-garde.

The first DVD Ring I bought was the Barenboim/Bayreuth. I thought a plastic spear was ridiculous.

Now this... I haven't seen anything yet. Obviously.

Those "love scenes" must be very "interesting".


----------



## Rogerx

SixFootScowl said:


> I never had that problem before but to clear up the mystery I will post the direct image of the atrocity here. The guy on the cover I am told is Siegfried!


Now this one belongs for sure in ridiculous cover thread .


----------



## Malx

SixFootScowl said:


> *The guy on the cover I am told is Siegfried!*


I thought that is pretty obvious........:devil:


----------

