# Writing music



## drankdrank (Oct 1, 2014)

Hey, 

Are new symphonies still being written? Or do orchestras just rely of the past work of Mozart, Handel, Bach etc.?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Yes, they are. Symphonies, vocal music, concertos; there are lots of new pieces being written for orchestras. 

Are you meaning the symphony specifically? Sure. For example, in the year 2000, John Corigliano won a Pulitzer Prize for his second symphony. Philip Glass has written several symphonies. They're out there if you're looking.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2014)

Most orchestras still rely on the works of the standard repertoire to fill seats (with exceptions, of course!), but yes, there is always new classical music being written, and quite a few symphonists.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

The symphony did seem to fall out of favor early in the 20th century, but has made a comeback. Of course, a lot of it was just naming, i.e., they didn't call their symphonies symphonies.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> The symphony did seem to fall out of favor early in the 20th century, but has made a comeback. Of course, a lot of it was just naming, i.e., they didn't call their symphonies symphonies.


Not to quibble, but there are arguably more great early 20th century symphonies than from the entire 19th c. (Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, Dutillieux, Nielsen, Martinu, Copland, Piston, Ives, Honegger, Rachmaninoff, Hanson, Tippett, W. Schuman . . .)  John Harbison and Peter Maxwell Davies, to name two, are still writing them.


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## mikey (Nov 26, 2013)

GGluek said:


> Not to quibble, but there are arguably more great early 20th century symphonies than from the entire 19th c. (Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, Dutillieux, Nielsen, Martinu, Copland, Piston, Ives, Honegger, Rachmaninoff, Hanson, Tippett, W. Schuman . . .)  John Harbison and Peter Maxwell Davies, to name two, are still writing them.


Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Saint Saens, Bruckner, Berlioz, Liszt...I think arguably is the right word


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GGluek said:


> Not to quibble, but there are arguably more great early 20th century symphonies than from the entire 19th c. (Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, Dutillieux, Nielsen, Martinu, Copland, Piston, Ives, Honegger, Rachmaninoff, Hanson, Tippett, W. Schuman . . .)  John Harbison and Peter Maxwell Davies, to name two, are still writing them.





mikey said:


> Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Saint Saens, Bruckner, Berlioz, Liszt...I think arguably is the right word


Gee... each century just littered with such comparable numbers of great composers of the first magnitude... amazing, isn't it?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

GGluek said:


> Not to quibble, but there are arguably more great early 20th century symphonies than from the entire 19th c. (Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, Dutillieux, Nielsen, Martinu, Copland, Piston, Ives, Honegger, Rachmaninoff, Hanson, Tippett, W. Schuman . . .)  John Harbison and Peter Maxwell Davies, to name two, are still writing them.


And the rest of the 20th century wasn't too bad either. Schnittke, Hans Werner Henze, William Schuman, Aulis Sallinen, Karl Hartmann, Hindemith, Ernst Krenek, Kalevi Aho.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

GGluek said:


> Not to quibble, but there are arguably more great early 20th century symphonies than from the entire 19th c. (Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, Dutillieux, Nielsen, Martinu, Copland, Piston, Ives, Honegger, Rachmaninoff, Hanson, Tippett, W. Schuman . . .)  John Harbison and Peter Maxwell Davies, to name two, are still writing them.


True. I was thinking specifically of Modernists (Debussy, Ravel, Bartok), though even then, it's not absolute.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Actually, the symphonic form arose in an earlier age, before democracy, when kings and royalty ruled.

Now that there is an increasing disparity in the wealthy and those in poverty, and a shrinking middle class, there seems to be an increase in the form's popularity.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

millionrainbows said:


> Actually, the symphonic form arose in an earlier age, before democracy, when kings and royalty ruled.
> 
> Now that there is an increasing disparity in the wealthy and those in poverty, and a shrinking middle class, there seems to be an increase in the form's popularity.


You haven't seen anything yet. Just wait for the explosion in secular cantatas, ouvertures, serenades, divertimenti, and cassations. That's when we'll know the middle class is history.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> You haven't seen anything yet. Just wait for the explosion in secular cantatas, ouvertures, serenades, divertimenti, and cassations. That's when we'll know the middle class is history.


. . . where people will be looking back wistfully to the golden years of the mass man and Mariah Carey.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

These days, there a quite a few composers who are returning to an almost Classical (period, not genre) format, but with modern content. These people often write quite a few symphonies, with some writing more than 100.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> These days, there a quite a few composers who are returning to an almost Classical (period, not genre) format, but with modern content. These people often write quite a few symphonies, with some writing more than 100.


Do you have any names? This is not a phenomenon I was aware of


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

Why of course! XD

http://www.talkclassical.com/20154-my-symphony-three.html


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Celloissimo said:


> Why of course! XD
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/20154-my-symphony-three.html


O.M.Flippin'.G.

You gotta love the internet and the outlet it offers for the creative. While the symphonies do seem mind blowing, I'm more taken with Billy's most recent project of synthesizer music for the US states in 2030. North Dakota was quite manic so I'm now chilling with Rhode Island






Seriously tho, who's writing hundred of classical format symphonies?


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

I actually quite like that ^^


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Hmm, this is rather embarrassing. I've forgotten names. I believe the one with more than 100 was a Finnish chap with a name I couldn't pronounce or remember. One of his symphonies (might have been No 38) was written to include a certain number of notes, but he wrote one too many. The harpist who played the extra note became his wife.
Anyone recognise this? I read it a while ago. Can't remember the details, I'll try to find the book.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

He certainly seems more at home in this genre than in the symphonic form. I just love the mad concept of states in 2030 and the map-based imagery - almost outsider art


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Well, hasn't Lief Segerstam written something like 6000 with another 200 in progress? Is that the guy?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Celloissimo said:


> I actually quite like that ^^


Reminds me vaguely of Men Without Hats, but without the great weird baritone vocals.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Hmm, this is rather embarrassing. I've forgotten names. I believe the one with more than 100 was a Finnish chap with a name I couldn't pronounce or remember. One of his symphonies (might have been No 38) was written to include a certain number of notes, but he wrote one too many. The harpist who played the extra note became his wife.
> Anyone recognise this? I read it a while ago. Can't remember the details, I'll try to find the book.


Leif Segerstam's up in the high 200s I think - I'm not sure he uses a classical era model however


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh.
Maybe I did mean him. Sorry for the error.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Actually, the symphonic form arose in an earlier age, before democracy, when kings and royalty ruled.
> 
> Now that there is an increasing disparity in the wealthy and those in poverty, and a shrinking middle class, there seems to be an increase in the form's popularity.


An interesting hypothesis, and one that can be tested too, because the middle class isn't shrinking everywhere. Here in Dark Africa, and in places like India and China, it is rapidly growing. Not sure about Europe. Perhaps we can compare the popularity of the symphony between these various regions. Admittedly, around here, you'd have to add the option "Huh?" to your poll about whether people like symphonies or not...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

dgee said:


> Leif Segerstam's up in the high 200s I think - I'm not sure he uses a classical era model however


Alan Hovhaness managed to crank out 67 numbered symphonies before he popped his clogs....


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> Actually, the symphonic form arose in an earlier age, before democracy, when kings and royalty ruled.
> 
> Now that there is an increasing disparity in the wealthy and those in poverty, and a shrinking middle class, there seems to be an increase in the form's popularity.


Such utter hyperbole, so wrongly thought out.

The symphonic form, like the most commonplace house floor plan, is readily recognized by millions of lay listeners. They are comfortable with it, and for those who haven't ventured further into modern and contemporary, many cling to the form as being a recognizable format they can readily follow.

Comments like "at least it is in a form and syntax I'm already familiar with" or something very like abound when comments are on conservative / moderate modern-contemporary music vs. the more wholly contemporary.

Symphony and Sonata are generally thought of by the more contemporary composers as something so old-style and perhaps bourgeois that some do not consider anything in sonata or symphonic form, regardless of its musical vocabulary, as being in any way truly modern or contemporary if it is in sonata or symphonic form.

Ergo, any resurgence in the symphony is due to a consumer base for newer classical comprising a swelling working / middle class, their craving for the more usual and already known formats, and not some disparity of wealth and a once again rising wealthy class, ready to crush and hold down us peasants.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

dgee said:


> He certainly seems more at home in this genre than in the symphonic form. I just love the mad concept of states in 2030 and the map-based imagery - almost outsider art


No doubt inspired by Sufjan Stevens' _Fifty States Project,_ though an idea can spontaneously crop up in several minds in far apart places...


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Jay Greenberg, synphony 5


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Luciano Berio ~ Sinfonia (1968)
One of the greater masterpieces of the last half of the 1900's -- here, the third of its four movements....





and a rag-taggle and probably very incomplete list of composers and symphonies they have written, all from 1950 to 2000, from wikidubiouspedia, of course:

1950-2000

Peter Paul Nash (1951- ), English composer of 2 symphonies.
Lepo Sumera (1950-2000), Estonian composer of 6 symphonies and 1 symphony for string orchestra and percussion.
John Buckley (1951- ), Irish composer of 1 symphony.
Brian M. Israel (1951-1986), American composer of 6 symphonies.
Craig H. Russell (1951- ), American composer of 2 symphonies.
Robert Savage (1951-1993), American composer of 1 symphony.
Brenton Broadstock (1952- ), Australian composer of 5 symphonies.
Oliver Knussen (1952- ), English composer of 3 symphonies.
Alla Pavlova (1952- ), Russian composer of 6 symphonies.
Wolfgang Rihm (1952- ), German composer of 2 symphonies.
Daniel Asia (1953- ), American composer of 5 symphonies.
Roberto Sierra (1953- ), Puerto Rican composer of 4 symphonies.
Takashi Yoshimatsu (1953- ), Japanese composer of 5 symphonies.
Elisabetta Brusa (1954- ), Italian composer of 1 symphony.
Daniel Bukvich (1954- ), American composer of 2 symphonies.
Robert Carl (1954- ), American composer of 3 symphonies.
Tobias Picker (1954- ), American composer of 3 symphonies.
Sergio Rendine (1954- ), Italian composer of 2 symphonies.
Sinan Savaskan (1954- ), British composer of 4 symphonies.
Carl Vine (1954- ), Australian composer of 7 symphonies.
John Kenneth Graham (1955- ), American composer of 4 symphonies.
Ye Xiaogang (1955- ), Chinese composer of 1 symphony.
Nigel Keay (1955- ), New Zealand composer of 1 symphony.
Dieter Lehnhoff (1955- ), German-Guatemalan composer of 2 symphonies.
Richard Danielpour (1956- ), American composer of 3 symphonies.
Jouni Kaipainen (1956- ), Finnish composer of 4 symphonies.
Thomas Sleeper (1956- ), American composer of 2 symphonies.
Mark Alburger (1957- ), American composer of 9 symphonies.
Bechara El-Khoury (1957- ), Lebanese-born French composer of 1 symphony.
Harri Vuori (1957- ), Finnish composer of 2 symphonies.
Julian Jing-Jun Yu (1957- ), Chinese-Australian composer of 1 symphony.
Tan Dun (1957- ), Chinese composer of 1 symphony.
Frank Ticheli (1958- ), American composer of 2 symphonies.
Salvador Brotons (1959- ), Catalan composer of 5 symphonies.
Shigeru Kan-no (1959- ), Japanese composer of 6 symphonies.
Erkki-Sven Tüür (1959- ), Estonian composer of 8 symphonies.
Kamran Ince (1960- ), American composer of 5 symphonies.
Aaron Jay Kernis (1960- ), American composer of 3 symphonies.
Nicolas Bacri (1961- ), French composer of 6 symphonies.
Gordon Kerry (1961- ), Australian composer of 1 symphony.
Lowell Liebermann (1961- ), American composer of 3 symphonies, the second with chorus to texts by Walt Whitman.
Michael Torke (1961- ), American composer of 1 symphony.
Alexander Kaloian (1962- ), Armenian composer of 2 symphonies.
Evgeni Kostitsyn (1963- ), Russian composer of 5 symphonies.
Sean O'Boyle (1963- ), Australian composer of 1 symphony.
David del Puerto (1964- ), Spanish composer of 2 symphonies.
Robert Steadman (1965- ), British composer of 2 symphonies and 1 chamber symphony.
Jeffrey Ching (1965- ), Chinese-Philippine composer of 5 symphonies

That link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphony_composers#1950.E2.80.932000


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