# National Coming Out Day



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

October 11 is National Coming Out Day for LGBT folks here in America, and I think its a very special day. People shouldn't need to hide who they are in this day and age.

So since today is that day, I wanted to come out as a transgender woman (which most people here probably didn't know) and bisexual (which I've been pretty open about). And anybody else that wants to come out can go ahead as well ^_^


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

My niece is also transgendered and bisexual. She's quite open about her status. What surprised and pleased me is that when she came out in high school she received almost no negative reactions from friends or classmates. Her school was also very understanding.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

mmsbls said:


> My niece is also transgendered and bisexual. She's quite open about her status. What surprised and pleased me is that when she came out in high school she received almost no negative reactions from friends or classmates. Her school was also very understanding.


How wonderful!  I'm very happy for her.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

People's sexual orientation are what they are by birth. They should not have to hide it. The only ones who NEED TO HIDE are those who are unwilling to accept this truth.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I'm sorry, I'm a little bit confused about what being a transgendered female means. Does that mean that you were born as a boy and you are transitioning into being a girl or is it that you were born a girl and are currently transitioning into being a boy?

Anyway, great thread idea. Being heterosexual, I have no personal experience with coming out myself but I would hate it if I felt like I couldn't openly love the person I actually loved.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

So let it be, I will also come out.

I'm transpersonal Napoleon Bonaparte. I have encountered much negativity about that, people tell me "you were born as who you were born, it doesn't matter what you feel inside because as a matter of fact you're NOT Bonaparte!". Fortunately, there are also many open-minded people who support me. Thought of their understanding accompanies me when I hear laughs and mockery from random people that I pass by on the street, dressed in my French Empire military uniform and with bicorne on my head.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> October 11 is National Coming Out Day for LGBT folks here in America, and I think its a very special day. People shouldn't need to hide who they are in this day and age.
> 
> So since today is that day, I wanted to come out as a transgender woman (which most people here probably didn't know) and bisexual (which I've been pretty open about). And anybody else that wants to come out can go ahead as well ^_^


Making Coming Out a special day suggests that a dam's spillway is opened. So... people 'hold it in' until the Day, or jump out before they are ready. Seems like a bad idea. Perhaps the confrontational aspect is desirable?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> People's sexual orientation are what they are by birth. They should not have to hide it. The only ones who NEED TO HIDE are those who are unwilling to accept this truth.


There are plenty of people in backwards countries who need to hide their sexual and/or "genderial" orientation for fear of being publicly shamed, physically and mentally abused or even stoned to death-as happened earlier this year at a village in Somalia. In what we might term a more "civilised" nation, Russia, it is now possible to be fined up to 1,000,000 rubles for "gay propaganda," and gay or "pro-gay" foreigners visiting the country can be detained for up to two weeks and fined up to 100,000 rubles if they are seen holding their partner's hand, sporting an LGBT rainbow flag about their person or voicing any pro-LGBT sentiment.

In the west these fears of being killed or legislated against such that one may incur a fine simple for holding one's partner's hand are generally not there, but what we have regrettably come to call tolerance is not necessarily a given here either, with several prominent conservative groups promoting inequality or hatred of people who fall outside the very narrow spectrum of lifestyle choices they deem acceptable. And whether we want to admit it or not, social pressure to conform to a pre-packaged media-enforced concept of normal human behaviour does exist and is pervasive in our culture, and indeed is compartmentalised such that depending on where you come from, your income bracket, the clothes you wear etc. there is a unique set of unwritten but heavily implied social rules you are expected to follow. Have you considered that there are plenty of gay people who are afraid to come out because they don't "act gay" and thus do not conform to what is expected of them, or because being gay could cause problems for their family's reputation in a given community? It is not so easy to rise above social pressure as you seem to think.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm slightly with the Troll, if an issue needs a special day I don't think the issue is burning enough! (Even if I intellectually know and understand that this issue needs focus in some parts of the less civilized world!)

I think the opposite day would be much much more fun, where the bigots that who don't accept what religion, sexuality or mind set the fun and marginalized has can "come out" with out being ridiculed as they ought to be! Something like "World day for kindness to bigots", so that we can spend the remaining 364 days of the year educating them about their utter wrongness!

..just a simple thought from a guy who have little patience with organisations and people who oppress (including himself)!

/ptr


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

ptr said:


> I think the opposite day would be much much more fun, where the bigots that who don't accept what religion, sexuality or mind set the fun and marginalized has can "come out" with out being ridiculed as they ought to be! Something like "World day for kindness to bigots", so that we can spend the remaining 364 days of the year educating them about their utter wrongness!


That can be Oct. 12. :lol:

I'm a "bigot" and I'm proud of it! People can call me names, but I will be what I will be, and if that means I will be hated, then so be it. Oh the irony of such a statement...

I have a problem with people saying that we just need to "educate" people and they will become more moral or whatever. In real life that doesn't happen, and actually sometimes the most "educated" people are the meanest people, mean when it comes to the important things in life. It's what _kind _of education/influences you have that's the most important.

True Love isn't just letting people love what they love, it's also letting people hate what the hate, especially if they have reasonable reasons behind it. I'm totally oppose hatred without cause, but if people have legitimate reasons for disapproving of any idea, _we have to let them._


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

You can hate something and not be clearly partial and intolerant right? What exactly are you bigoted about?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> [...]
> True Love isn't just letting people love what they love, it's also letting people hate what the hate, especially if they have reasonable reasons behind it. I'm totally oppose hatred without cause, but if people have legitimate reasons for disapproving of any idea, _we have to let them._


www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/*hate*‎
a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury. b : extreme dislike or antipathy : loathing <had a great _hate_ of hard work>

"Hate" is 'multi-definitional' based on intensity. The [a] definition above is the one that applies to bigotry (the example in <> is a sample of low intensity). True Love has nothing to do with it.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I have a problem with people saying that we just need to "educate" people and they will become more moral or whatever . . . I'm totally oppose hatred without cause, but if people have legitimate reasons for disapproving of any idea, _we have to let them._


That's something I'm seeing creeping into American society; a nonallowance for freedom of _thought._ I believe in tolerance; I don't believe in forced compliance.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

National Coming Out Day? Is this real? I mean, seriously, this is a _Day?_ Like Martin Luther King Day and Mother's Day?

Is there a National Hetero Day and a National Celibacy Day too?

What other days do we lack that would make the calendar seem less treadbare?


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

It does seem that things are going in the right direction in the west, albeit much more slowly than they should. The fact that people are still made uncomfortable by NCOD, gay pride etc. shows that these things are still necessary.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

How about International Everyone, Anyone, and No One's Day? That way I'm not leaving out anyone!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/*hate*‎
> a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury. b : extreme dislike or antipathy : loathing <had a great _hate_ of hard work>
> 
> "Hate" is 'multi-definitional' based on intensity. The [a] definition above is the one that applies to bigotry (the example in <> is a sample of low intensity). True Love has nothing to do with it.


I'm sure you are right and if not you should be.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, I consider myself straight, but I am supportive of the LGBT community and so is my family, despite being Catholic. I have found other males incidentally attractive, but not in the same way I feel about the opposite sex.

I see nothing wrong with Coming Out Day; the point of it is to empower LGBT people (usually teens or young people) who feel like they have to hide it from their family and friends (if they surrounded by unsupportive people, etc.) It shows that they do have support. If you think a "hetero day" or something would serve the same function, then by all means, create it. But right now, I don't see the two as being similar. You have to look at _why_ these things were created. And if your reason for wanting another day is just to spite the other side, I don't see much value in that.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Tristan said:


> Well, I consider myself straight, but I am supportive of the LGBT community and so is my family, despite being Catholic. I have found other males incidentally attractive, but not in the same way I feel about the opposite sex.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with Coming Out Day; the point of it is to empower LGBT people (usually teens or young people) who feel like they have to hide it from their family and friends (if they surrounded by unsupportive people, etc.) It shows that they do have support. If you think a "hetero day" or something would serve the same function, then by all means, create it. But right now, I don't see the two as being similar. You have to look at _why_ these things were created. And if your reason for wanting another day is just to spite the other side, I don't see much value in that.


No, it's not spite, Tristan, and I have no problem with people having days, but it seems faddish to me, the Oprah-fication of politics. I imagine these Days all started in America and spread out then. I also have no problem with "empowering" people but I do have a problem with being told what to respect and the institutionalising of victimhood. I'm not referring now to the Coming Out Day (which is really a dreary title) but International Women's Day, which we may scoff at at our peril...


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

violadude said:


> I'm sorry, I'm a little bit confused about what being a transgendered female means. Does that mean that you were born as a boy and you are transitioning into being a girl or is it that you were born a girl and are currently transitioning into being a boy?
> 
> Anyway, great thread idea. Being heterosexual, I have no personal experience with coming out myself but I would hate it if I felt like I couldn't openly love the person I actually loved.


the first one VD. ^^;


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

mstar said:


> How about International Everyone, Anyone, and No One's Day? That way I'm not leaving out anyone!


Where do *I* fit in??? *sobs*


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Mahlerian said:


> Where do *I* fit in??? *sobs*


International Mahlerian Day! It's February 30th, every a hundred years... :devil:


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Kieran said:


> No, it's not spite, Tristan, and I have no problem with people having days, but it seems faddish to me, the Oprah-fication of politics. I imagine these Days all started in America and spread out then. I also have no problem with "empowering" people but I do have a problem with being told what to respect and the institutionalising of victimhood. I'm not referring now to the Coming Out Day (which is really a dreary title) but International Women's Day, which we may scoff at at our peril...


Fair enough. I don't know much about Women's Day, so I can't really speak for it. And Coming Out day _is_ a little faddish, not going to deny it, especially for people who "support" it by pressing a button on Facebook. That said, I do know that it has real value, at least from knowing LGBT teenagers, who have used it to help their friends come out or come out themselves. It's also an anniversary of an important march on Washington for pro-LGBT rights in 1987, which is how it started in the first place.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I must say I am a bit annoyed (though not surprised) that the predominating subject of this thread seems to be homosexuality, even though I didn't come out as such, and actually the really big thing was me coming out as being trans. Thats something that is annoying about the LGBT rights movement, that trans and bisexual people and the issues they face are often ignored.

Also I'd appreciate it if you guys would take these discussions about racial privilege and nationalism and make some other thread or discussion elsewhere, because those are going pretty off-topic.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> I must say I am a bit annoyed (though not surprised) that the predominating subject of this thread seems to be homosexuality, even though I didn't come out as such, and actually the really big thing was me coming out as being trans. Thats something that is annoying about the LGBT rights movement, that trans and bisexual people and the issues they face are often ignored.


When did you learn that you were transgender? What feelings exactly point toward it? I ask this out of curiosity only, without any exterior motive to speak of - and certainly I do not condemn you. It interests me and few are willing to talk about it, so now that this thread's here :lol:


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

Coming out is important for the gay and trans community because it has been shown that the best way to reduce negative attitudes about gay or trans people among the straight community is for more straight people to know more gay or trans people. 

One of the main reasons young Christians in the US are more accepting of the gay community and more accepting of things like gay adoption and gay marriage than their parents and grandparents is because they have grown up in a world where more and more people are out of the closet.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Also to those who don't get the point of having such a day, it is for solidarity and support, because it is a difficult thing for a person to do. I know it may be hard to understand if you're cisgender and heterosexual, because most people will just assume you're those things. You don't need to come out as anything in that regard. Being trans is scary in a world where many people have so much ignorance and hatred towards against transgender people (even many gay and bi people don't understand). Same with being gay or bisexual in many parts of the world. I'm absolutely against shaming or blaming everybody who is cis or straight for these problems; you don't fight bigotry with more bigotry. All I ask from those who are open-minded is understanding, and if you can lend it, support. I don't think thats too much to ask.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

I do feel boring being all cisgender and heterosexual. I've never even met a transgendered person, or at least one that admitted (knew about?) it.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> Also to those who don't get the point of having such a day, it is for solidarity and support, because it is a difficult thing for a person to do. I know it may be hard to understand if you're cisgender and heterosexual, because most people will just assume you're those things. You don't need to come out as anything in that regard. Being trans is scary in a world where many people have so much ignorance and hatred towards against transgender people (even many gay and bi people don't understand). Same with being gay or bisexual in many parts of the world. I'm absolutely against shaming or blaming everybody who is cis or straight for these problems; you don't fight bigotry with more bigotry. All I ask from those who are open-minded is understanding, and if you can lend it, support. I don't think thats too much to ask.


I have no problem with gays and transgender people, and as a straight guy I enjoy enormously such company. I do have one little quibble if I dare raise it: I remember the first time I met a bunch of transgenders (these being on the boy-to-girl path) in a bar who were 'dressed to the nines' in their feminine outfits. No really, such bad taste I have never seen, cheap and tacky. Now, whatever one's gender, there is no excuse for bad taste!


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

What I don't like is when some people use their purported "LGBT-ness" to do anything they want. I am, of course, referring to these specific people and not the LGBT population as a whole.


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## Fermat (Jul 26, 2013)

I doubt anyone here will ever have a need to know this, but in the spirit of the thread, I'll share the fact that I'm a dude who has always been, and always will be, attracted to other dudes. 100% homo. No confusion or fluidity here.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

Celloman said:


> What I don't like is when some people use their purported "LGBT-ness" to do anything they want. I am, of course, referring to these specific people and not the LGBT population as a whole.




What do you mean?


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Garlic said:


> What do you mean?


I don't think I need to explain myself. We can all agree there are people who will take advantage of social change for their personal gratifications, whether that change is good or bad.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

I honestly don't know what you mean, but never mind.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Garlic said:


> I honestly don't know what you mean, but never mind.


If I'm being rather vague, my apologies! I'm trying to tiptoe as carefully as possible...

Have a nice day.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Celloman said:


> I don't think I need to explain myself. We can all agree there are people who will take advantage of social change for their personal gratifications, whether that change is good or bad.


Are you referring to people who "flaunt" their homosexuality by taking part in Gay Pride and other such events? I know that many people have a problem with such events and I know that these events cause certain people who would ordinarily just "put up with" homosexuality actively dislike it. At the same time I think it is important for the gay community to raise awareness of the difficulties they face in society until absolute equality is reached. I don't think they should have to accept merely being "put up with."


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

No, my friend. That is freedom of speech.

I am referring to specific behaviors and abuses. Take Benjamin Britten (to use a musical example). Arguably, he misused his homosexuality, ie., his relationships with young boys. I am certain that some other individuals have responded to their own sexual tendencies in ways that were harmful to society. Again, these were specific individuals and not "LGBT" populations as a whole.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Celloman said:


> No, my friend. That is freedom of speech.
> 
> I am referring to specific behaviors and abuses. Take Benjamin Britten (to use a musical example). Arguably, he misused his homosexuality, ie., his relationships with young boys. I am certain that some other individuals have responded to their own sexual tendencies in ways that were harmful to society. Again, these were specific individuals and not "LGBT" populations as a whole.


I know nothing about BB's 'official' sexual orientation - however "relationships with young boys" is pedophilia. Not the same thing as homosexuality, not part of the LGBT confederation.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> I know nothing about BB's 'official' sexual orientation - however "relationships with young boys" is pedophilia. Not the same thing as homosexuality, not part of the LGBT confederation.


Exactly, I was thinking the same thing...


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Hilltroll72 said:


> I know nothing about BB's 'official' sexual orientation - however "relationships with young boys" is pedophilia. Not the same thing as homosexuality, not part of the LGBT confederation.


Thank you for clarifying.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Celloman said:


> No, my friend. That is freedom of speech.
> 
> I am referring to specific behaviors and abuses. Take Benjamin Britten (to use a musical example). Arguably, he misused his homosexuality, ie., his relationships with young boys. I am certain that some other individuals have responded to their own sexual tendencies in ways that were harmful to society. Again, these were specific individuals and not "LGBT" populations as a whole.


Ok sorry for the false accusation!

As for the example you give, "relationships with young boys," I don't recall pedophilia being exclusive to homosexuality?

EDIT: Ok a bit slow making this post...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Whoa, whoa. Having read Britten's Children and the biography by Humphrey Carpenter, (both of which went to great pains to track down and interview the subjects) let us make it quite clear that while it is probable that Britten was attracted to adolescent boys, and formed friendships with them, the ones who were sexually innocent stated that they were unaware of any such attraction and that he never made any sexual advances to them. The ones who were sexually aware had an inkling, but said that he did not act inappropriately at all.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whoa, whoa. Having read Britten's Children and the biography by Humphrey Carpenter, (both of which went to great pains to track down and interview the subjects) let us make it quite clear that while it is probable that Britten was attracted to adolescent boys, and formed friendships with them, the ones who were sexually innocent stated that they were unaware of any such attraction and that he never made any sexual advances to them. The ones who were sexually aware had an inkling, but said that he did not act inappropriately at all.


Thanks for that, mamascarlatti. I'm glad to read this post...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> the first one VD. ^^;


Thanks for letting me know 

I think I can understand the feelings of a transgender person. I've never felt completely cisgender growing up, but I've never felt completely transgender either.

I don't really feel like I have any gender-specific traits actually.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> It is not so easy to rise above social pressure as you seem to think.


No, I don't think it is "so easy to rise above social pressure" as you seem to think I do.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

violadude said:


> Thanks for letting me know
> 
> I think I can understand the feelings of a transgender person. I've never felt completely cisgender growing up, but I've never felt completely transgender either.
> 
> I don't really feel like I have any gender-specific traits actually.


Well its a complex thing really. You don't have to be stereotypically like a gender to be that gender. I view myself as a bit of a tomboy actually. You also don't have to strongly identify as a guy or a girl, you can identify as one or the other at different times if thats how you feel, or as just androgynous or genderqueer ^^


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

People are people. We all have souls. Big sins or little sins, I treat people like people. Because they are people. Case closed.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

mstar said:


> People are people. We all have souls. Big sins or little sins, I treat people like people. Because they are people. Case closed.




Is this your thread-closing persona in action? Natalie, maybe you should make a note; the girl has moderator potential.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Well I'll at least say I'm happy that most people here seem accepting ^^ and any bigots seem to have abstained from saying mean things. So that was more painless than it could have been.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> But why? You might learn something, become a better person


You have my deepest love and respect BD, go get them ole' farts!

/ptr


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

This thread is temporarily closed for repairs.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> This thread is temporarily closed for repairs.


and has now been reopened again.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't see why every post by Saul was removed, only one thing he wrote was really offensive. What he expressed was potentially hot, but this thread is controversial by it's nature and many things that are written here are explosive, able to stir things up. 

So I feel as if only one sentiment was enabled to be expressed here and anybody outside the majority of LGBT applauders gathered disallowed to speak his mind, even in mild words. In such case I think there shouldn't be this thread at all.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Aramis said:


> I don't see why every post by Saul was removed, only one thing he wrote was really offensive. What he expressed was potentially hot, but this thread is controversial by it's nature and many things that are written here are explosive, able to stir things up.
> 
> So I feel as if only one sentiment was enabled to be expressed here and anybody outside the majority of LGBT applauders gathered disallowed to speak his mind, even in mild words. In such case I think there shouldn't be this thread at all.


Last statement is agreed with. Do 't get me wrong, everyone's a person and has my respect, but I won't support something I know is wrong. Taking that this is a controversial topic, I was actually a little relieved when this thread was closed.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

This is a "coming out day" thread. Not your opinions about it. Nice and simple...


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

It's one thing to say you're not interested, but if you're truly not interested, then I'd keep away. Same goes for a religion thread or something else. But calling it "disgusting" is quite the judgment there. If I went into another thread and said that, would people be okay with that? I doubt it.

It would be like coming into a thread about Mac computers and saying "Macs are stupid. Everybody should use Windows". That kind of comment contributes nothing and a thread about Macs is obviously not geared toward someone who only uses Windows and doesn't like Macs. Of course that person has a right to not like Macs and talk about why he doesn't like them. But why bother posting in a thread about Macs and for Mac users about how much they are bad? 

I just don't understand it.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Mrs. Natalie, I propose we re-close this thread. It looks as if it's not gonna die for quite a while.... 

Or we can just forget posting on it anymore, if we would like.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Oh dear, I don't want to have to close it, but it looks like I have to. BD has made her point, and the National Coming Out day is over. 

There is a difference between expressing an opinion, using what Aramis calls "mild words", and hate speech. Hate speech is not tolerated on this forum. 

It is also unacceptable to insult other members directly.


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