# Transcriptions



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Do you like transcriptions or do you prefer to hear music played on the instrument(s) it was written for? Transcriptions are heaven for classical guitarists and I just came across this:






But what about other music and other instruments? Chamber versions of Beethoven piano concertos? Orchestral versions of Brahms piano quartets? Organ music played on the violin or vice versa? What do you think?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I like transcriptions, in principle. Some composers, like Bach, stand up well to that sort of treatment. Beethoven, much less so.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I like transcriptions. I like to hear both versions.

I don't know if they would be considered transcriptions, but there are many Bach pieces for harpsichord that are also played on the piano.
Andrés Segovia transcribed many works for classical guitar.

Brahms' _Viola Sonatas_ (originally _Clarinet Sonatas_)
Mahler's _Des Knaben Wunderhorn_ in a version for Baritone and Piano (although Mahler's own music in the _critical edition_ is apparently entirely different, so it's not really a transcription)
Shostakovich's _String Quartet 8_ transcribed for chamber orchestra by Rudolf Barshai
Schönberg's _Quintet_, Op.26 arranged for string quintet by Henk Guittart of the Schoenberg Quartet
Liszt's _Wagner Transcriptions_

etc.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

lol, I read the title of the thread and I immediately thought about these annoying classical guitarists and their even more annoying transcriptions.
So, you are a composer and you worked like a pig in order to achieve a balanced orchestration...: don't worry too much!, a classical guitarist will come and sure will make a transcription of it!... organ concerto transcribed for an ensemble of seven classical guitars and viola.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> lol, I read the title of the thread and I immediately thought about these annoying classical guitarists and their even more annoying transcriptions.
> So, you are a composer and you worked like a pig in order to achieve a balanced orchestration...: don't worry too much!, a classical guitarist will come and sure will make a transcription of it!... organ concerto transcribed for an ensemble of seven classical guitars and viola.


Time for me to make Poulenc turn in his grave then..........:lol:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Let me mention something a bit obscure, just on the offchance that someone may have some ideas.

Just recently I've been listening to the music of Antonio Cabezón, and I've found that the most humane and attractive performances have been tanscriptions to small ensembles. All the performances I'm finding on keyboard seem a bit too severe and monochromatic. If that's right, this is maybe a composer, an important composer, who is better transscribed.

Another thing I'm interested in is Busoni's Bach transcriptions of harpsichord pieces for piano. I'm not a great fan of The Goldberg Variations on a piano, I think that harpsichordists have made much more of it, have gone much deeper. But I've heard a record of the Busoni transcription by David Buechner which is great fun. I believe Busoni made a piano transcription of WTC too, but i've never heard it (there is a record of Busoni himeself playing some WTC 1, but I think it's Bach's music he's using)









Other things I've found particularly enjoyable and illuminating are Reger's piano transcriptions of the Brandenburgs 3 and 5, on a CD by Santiago Rodriguez and Peter Rösel, Leonhardt's transcription of Bach's solo violin music and Ludger Remy's of the solo cello music.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

The most amazing transcriptions I heard are those Ravel made of his own solo piano pieces. Like _Le Tombeau de Couperin_, _Ma mère l'oye_, some movements from _Miroirs_, and some others.
And of course the classical guitar version!!: 



 (seems quite difficult, particularly because of all those setions at the edge, close to the sound hole, of the fingerboard)


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I said that Beethoven didn't stand up well to transcriptions. But there's a major exception: Liszt's piano transcriptions of his symphonies. These seem to have been a labor of love and are very well done indeed. Great listening! The Katsaris performances are outstanding.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Lis...1377413079&sr=8-1&keywords=beethoven+katsaris


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> The most amazing transcriptions I heard are those Ravel made of his own solo piano pieces. Like _Le Tombeau de Couperin_, _Ma mère l'oye_, some movements from _Miroirs_, and some others.
> And of course the classical guitar version!!:
> 
> 
> ...


Now _that's_ what I'm talking about! See? Everything sounds much better on the guitar!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I said that Beethoven didn't stand up well to transcriptions. But there's a major exception: Liszt's piano transcriptions of his symphonies. These seem to have been a labor of love and are very well done indeed. Great listening! The Katsaris performances are outstanding.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Lis...1377413079&sr=8-1&keywords=beethoven+katsaris


Did Liszt or anyone else make a transcription of the Missa Solemnis?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> Did Liszt or anyone else make a transcription of the Missa Solemnis?


Never heard of such a thing. I'd be very surprised if any kind of transcription existed...

Nice to see you here Mandryka.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Never heard of such a thing. I'd be very surprised if any kind of transcription existed...
> 
> Nice to see you here Mandryka.


John Cage did a transcription of that for toy piano, prepared fish and carrot juice on the side.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

I generally love transcriptions. I like Stokowski's version of the toccata and fugue more than the organ solo. Just to come with an example.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Trivia: To promote Schubert's music, Liszt wrote many transcriptions of Schubert songs. Schubert is the composer who had the most Liszt' transcriptions.


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## homunculus (Jul 1, 2013)

Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern transcribed several Strauss waltzes.






​
Schoenberg and Webern also transcribed Bach. Kempff's transcription of Bach's sonata for flute and harpsichord is exemplary as well.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

I do it the other way round - I've got a complete Dowland in lute tablature and full score which is great for playing on the keyboard!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Here's an intriguing one. Busoni arranged the second of Schoenberg's _Drei Klavierstucke_ for his own use, making it more idiomatic as a piano piece, occasionally adding or deleting figurations, etc. The two had been corresponding, and Schoenberg was against it, but relented as long as his own version was published first. For people who know the original well, this one is a bit of an odd experience.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

There was a marvelous recital from Carnegie Hall by Earl Wild in 1981 . His complete programme ,including encores, was a selection of transcriptions.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Pianists-20th-Century-Earl/dp/B00000IIYU


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

aleazk said:


> lol, I read the title of the thread and I immediately thought about these annoying classical guitarists and their even more annoying transcriptions.
> So, you are a composer and you worked like a pig in order to achieve a balanced orchestration...: don't worry too much!, a classical guitarist will come and sure will make a transcription of it!... organ concerto transcribed for an ensemble of seven classical guitars and viola.


If composers don't like that, they should consider composing something for the classical guitarists. If all the great composers are going to flatly refuse to compose anything for guitar, they must not act all hurt and surprised when guitarists retaliate with a barrage of transcriptions.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

brianvds said:


> If composers don't like that, they should consider composing something for the classical guitarists. If all the great composers are going to flatly refuse to compose anything for guitar, they must not act all hurt and surprised when guitarists retaliate with a barrage of transcriptions.


I don't see the problem. If transcriptions are made, so what.... The original is still there for the purist.
When the transcription arguably becomes better than the original, it still does not matter the original has not been expunged!


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

A while ago heard Rite Of Spring for piano-four hands, also Petrushka. Both amazing and reveal the extent of Strav's invention.
Pure and unadorned by timbre. It's all in those 12 pitches.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Petwhac said:


> A while ago heard Rite Of Spring for piano-four hands


There's a great recording with Ashkenazy and Gavrilov (



). I'd also recommend Dag Achatz's transcription for 2 hands--it's full of fire.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

I have nothing against transcriptions or re-arrangements, but some work better than others.

Toru Takemitsu often wrote multiple arrangements of his works, for example there is A Way a Lone, which is a string quartet, and A Way a Lone II, for string orchestra or Toward the Sea, Toward the Sea II, Toward the Sea III - get it? And I've yet to hear something by him I did not like.

Charles Koechlin did the same on occasion. Le Heures persanes and Paysages et marines were originally for solo piano then re-arranged for orchestra and chamber ensemble. Like Takemitsu, everything is candy to these ears.

I am also a big fan of the chamber arrangements of Mahler's works - and Slowik's interpretations of them.

A lot of Spanish pianist have been transcribed for guitar - Albeniz's Iberia, Falla's 7 Canciones populares espanoles and Granados' 12 Danzas espanoles come to mind. Although I think some work better than others, I find none of them offensive to the ears.


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## Wicked_one (Aug 18, 2010)

I fancy the classical guitar transcriptions because ok, you can't play the piano or...the orchestra, but, hey! Classical guitar will help!  The wrote for orchestra, Liszt said "Piano players, this is for you" and now weird people come and say "here's for the classical guitar, enjoy!". Ok, this is number 1.

Number 2: The interpretation has a lot to do with the way the transcription is received. Classical guitarists tend to take a liberty on messing with tempi, rubato and whatnot because, surely, it has some kind of a different impulse and they might think they will send so many feelings if they break the chord or the play it slowly, but then again, why? If it's a transcription it should be played as written without all these weird liberties. I do play guitar and I used to do that and then I asked myself "why?"... and yeah..


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Mitchell said:


> A lot of Spanish pianist have been transcribed for guitar - Albeniz's Iberia, Falla's 7 Canciones populares espanoles and Granados' 12 Danzas espanoles come to mind. Although I think some work better than others, I find none of them offensive to the ears.


Those pieces work well on guitar because of their very Spanish flavour. They were probably inspired by Spain's guitar music to begin with. The same goes for some of Scarlatti's many keyboard sonatas. Though I confess that all that very Spanish stuff is by no means my favourite work for classical guitar, and I wish the instrument had not become so completely dominated by it.



Wicked_one said:


> Number 2: The interpretation has a lot to do with the way the transcription is received. Classical guitarists tend to take a liberty on messing with tempi, rubato and whatnot because, surely, it has some kind of a different impulse and they might think they will send so many feelings if they break the chord or the play it slowly, but then again, why? If it's a transcription it should be played as written without all these weird liberties. I do play guitar and I used to do that and then I asked myself "why?"... and yeah..


Well, the guitar only has six strings, so very often the transcriber has to make choices about simplifying the harmony, which probably almost inevitably leads to taking other liberties as well. And a thing that works well on a piano may not work as well when played exactly the same way on a guitar. The instrument often lends itself to arpegiating chords that, on the piano, you might have played as solid chunks.

Of course, the whole thing should be done tastefully, and there will be endless debate about that. I have a seen a video by a classical guitarist whose name has now escaped me, in which he plays a guitar transcription of Dvorak's New World symphony, displaying breathtaking virtuosity. But is it tasteful? On a guitar board that I am a member of, there was a lot of debate about it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Those pieces work well on guitar because of their very Spanish flavour. They were probably inspired by Spain's guitar music to begin with. The same goes for some of Scarlatti's many keyboard sonatas.


It also seems popular to play Scarlatti on the accordion. There are several recordings of this, and the one I have is quite nice (and fun).

http://www.amazon.com/Vivi-Felice-S...377487051&sr=1-2&keywords=scarlatti+accordion


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Wicked_one said:


> I fancy the classical guitar transcriptions because ok, you can't play the piano or...the orchestra, but, hey! Classical guitar will help!  The wrote for orchestra, Liszt said "Piano players, this is for you" and now weird people come and say "here's for the classical guitar, enjoy!". Ok, this is number 1.
> 
> Number 2: The interpretation has a lot to do with the way the transcription is received. Classical guitarists tend to take a liberty on messing with tempi, rubato and whatnot because, surely, it has some kind of a different impulse and they might think they will send so many feelings if they break the chord or the play it slowly, but then again, why? If it's a transcription it should be played as written without all these weird liberties. I do play guitar and I used to do that and then I asked myself "why?"... and yeah..


It depends on whether it is a transcription or an arrangement.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)




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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

Brianvds, the guitarist you're talking of is Jorge Caballero and the transcriptions is Kazuhito Yamashita's (unless it's Caballero's own ? I don't think so).
Here's a good video of the first movement

This causes debates q: and it's perfectly understandable - although I admire the guitarist, his knowledge, his technique, etc. I don't like those transcriptions. I think his transcription of the Berg Sonata op1 and the Fantasia cromatica & Fugue BWV903 work _much_ better.

I think the guitar world suffer from the quality of many of the transcriptions used (this is probably beginning to change since 20 or 30 years ago). While pianists had right from the start persons such as Liszt who did a very serious work and did not hesitate to rely on their amazing knowledge of the piano technique to find solutions, guitarists seemed more preoccupied with finding an easy way of play some of the more important notes q:
With the development of guitar technique nowadays (see Caballero !), transcriptions for our instrument are beginning to get more consistent.

Here is an absolutely wonderful, perfectly tasteful, and amazingly played transcription, with a great cellist and a great guitarist :




From the album Ibérica, on Naive.

I've always wondered what the limit between transcription and rewriting is. One of my fantasy would be to transcribe classical piano sonatas (Haydn, Dussek, Mozart, you name it) on the guitar, but it would include changing pianistic formula (such as Alberti bass lines) to more guitaristic ones. This would be a rewriting. So, if someone does that, he has to say it's Haydn/himself and not just a transcription of Haydn, right ? Where should we draw the line ?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Of course, the whole thing should be done tastefully, and there will be endless debate about that. I have a seen a video by a classical guitarist whose name has now escaped me, in which he plays a guitar transcription of Dvorak's New World symphony, displaying breathtaking virtuosity. But is it tasteful? On a guitar board that I am a member of, there was a lot of debate about it.


I would assume the guitarist was Yamashita but I'm not sure....


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I like many transcriptions of Bach's music that I have heard. His music has a universal quality that transcends the limitations and abilities of whatever instruments have been invented. The piano did not really exist when he composed and I would assert a lot of his music simply sounds better on the piano than on the harpsichord or clavichord or whatever he was writing for. On the other hand, I generally dislike classical guitar music (except for Joaquin Rodrigo), there seems to be tons of music transcribed for guitar, probably because of the small repertoire written for the instrument, and I don't care for it. Also, a lot of music seems to have been transcribed for brass quintet, probably for the same reason, and I've never heard any that I liked.

In general, I am reluctant to listen to transcriptions made by people other than the composer, because in my opinion they are rarely improvements. I think Bach is an exception.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Saw Captainnumber36's post on Joshua Bell's performance of a Chopin Nocturne and thought it worthwhile to bring this thread back. Like many of the previous posters, my favorite transcriptions are those of Bach. I have all 12 of the violin and cello suites performed on lute and guitar. Goran Sollscher on 11-string guitar is a favorite. I also enjoy Scarlatti on guitar, especially a disc by Narciso Yepes. I actually have a disc of Chopin Nocturnes on guitar, but I'm not fully convinced. Debussy can be nice.

Of course the only way one can hear Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata is in a transcription. I have a few versions, but prefer the cello.

I also need to listen to the Liszt transcriptions of Beethoven.

My collection is organized around transcriptions, so I'm sure I have quite a few that don't come to mind.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I used to be against them, now I enjoy them!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

One of the most ridiculous things I ever heard was jazz guitarist Larry Coryell's transcription of The Rite of Spring for Electric guitars.
How about Yngwie Malmsteen's version of Albinoni's Adagio? Malmsteen really knows how to drive a melody into the ground! :lol:


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## Swosh (Feb 25, 2018)

Well I love transcriptions and arrangements! It's challenging, fun, and lets you understand a piece more in my opinion.


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## Swosh (Feb 25, 2018)

KenOC said:


> I like transcriptions, in principle. Some composers, like Bach, stand up well to that sort of treatment. Beethoven, much less so.


Did you not like my arrangement of his sonata?


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## Swosh (Feb 25, 2018)

spradlig said:


> I like many transcriptions of Bach's music that I have heard. His music has a universal quality that transcends the limitations and abilities of whatever instruments have been invented. The piano did not really exist when he composed and I would assert a lot of his music simply sounds better on the piano than on the harpsichord or clavichord or whatever he was writing for. On the other hand, I generally dislike classical guitar music (except for Joaquin Rodrigo), there seems to be tons of music transcribed for guitar, probably because of the small repertoire written for the instrument, and I don't care for it. Also, a lot of music seems to have been transcribed for brass quintet, probably for the same reason, and I've never heard any that I liked.
> 
> In general, I am reluctant to listen to transcriptions made by people other than the composer, because in my opinion they are rarely improvements. I think Bach is an exception.


Do they have to be improvements? Or just opening the music to more players of different instruments?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Swosh said:


> Did you not like my arrangement of his sonata?


Until I hear your flugelhorn and ukulele version, I'll withhold judgment.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Swosh said:


> Do they have to be improvements? Or just opening the music to more players of different instruments?


If so they are of considerably greater interest to the players than to potential listeners.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> One of the most ridiculous things I ever heard was jazz guitarist Larry Coryell's transcription of The Rite of Spring for Electric guitars.


Oh I wish I could hear that MR. I did a search and found this instead.........


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

KenOC said:


> I said that Beethoven didn't stand up well to transcriptions. But there's a major exception: Liszt's piano transcriptions of his symphonies. These seem to have been a labor of love and are very well done indeed. Great listening! The Katsaris performances are outstanding.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Lis...1377413079&sr=8-1&keywords=beethoven+katsaris


Enjoying the Pastoral performed by Yury Martynov right now.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> One of the most ridiculous things I ever heard was jazz guitarist Larry Coryell's transcription of The Rite of Spring for Electric guitars.


Don't know that, but a friend of mine in college had this album. At that time I was just getting into classical and had yet to get seriously into jazz.

But I did own Emerson, Lake and Palmer's "Pictures at an Exhibition."


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## Forsooth (Apr 17, 2018)

Swosh said:


> Well I love transcriptions and arrangements! It's challenging, fun, and lets you understand a piece more in my opinion.


This is the way I feel. Any worthy (or even not-so-worthy) music is fair game. I especially enjoy transcriptions for small groups (3-8) of instruments that do not include a keyboard.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Liszt's transcriptions are often labors of love, especially when working with the music of Beethoven and Schubert.











Busoni's transcriptions of Bach are oftimes overly romantic but they convey so much emotional power:






A brilliant young violinist named Roman Kim has almost miraculously transcribed Mozart and Bach onto the violin, retaining all the voices:


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Malcolm McNab's Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto in D major recorded with a trumpet instead of the violin


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2020)

Taggart said:


> I do it the other way round - I've got a complete Dowland in lute tablature and full score which is great for playing on the keyboard!


What is the title and publisher? Are they arranged for the piano or are you making your own versions?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KlavierKing said:


> What is the title and publisher? Are they arranged for the piano or are you making your own versions?


There are lots of c16 and c17 keyboard transcriptions of Dowland's music, lute music and songs, Colin Tilney collected them together and recorded them for Anthony Rooley's complete Dowland. He plays them very well IMO.


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