# 'Worst' track on...Hot Rats



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Which is your least fave track from Hot Rats?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Wrong album to pick for "worst" track. They're all great.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

I can't say it's an album I've listened to much to be honest but of course I love it. It'd be interesting to try this on one of his lesser albums, like You Are What You Is? For example


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

My thoughts entirely, notice I did not vote either


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Willy The Pimp with Beefheart is awesome!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Xenakiboy said:


> I can't say it's an album I've listened to much to be honest but of course I love it. It'd be interesting to try this on one of his lesser albums, like You Are What You Is? For example


Give it a go or maybe Thingfish now that would bind my mind

Interestingly I saw this poll on another site and thought I would see what TCer's thought, my vote on the other site was none they are all good. Looks like they didn't like Willie The Pimp


Peaches En Regalia1







[8.33%]Willie The Pimp5







[41.67%]Son Of Mr. Green Genes0







Little Umbrellas2The Gumbo Variations1It Must Be A Camel3


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which is your least fave track from Hot Rats?


Never heard of it. Can I vote anyway?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> Never heard of it. Can I vote anyway?


Do yourself a favour and have a listen. Of course you can vote. Most people fav is below.........


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Vaneyes said:


> Never heard of it. Can I vote anyway?


I don't think we are qualified for this.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Pugg said:


> I don't think we are qualified for this.


come on haveago


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Pugg said:


> I don't think we are qualified for this.


You probably aren't but you might be if you would listen to it. It would be good for you.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Xenakiboy said:


> I can't say it's an album I've listened to much to be honest but of course I love it. It'd be interesting to try this on one of his lesser albums, like You Are What You Is? For example


You're in dangerous territory, ha ha. I like You are what you is a whole lot! I wouldn't consider it one of his lesser albums. I would put forward maybe Studio Tan or The Man from Utopia but even those have great pieces. It would be interesting to see a poll on his albums from the middle and last period.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Give it a go or maybe Thingfish now that would bind my mind
> 
> Interestingly I saw this poll on another site and thought I would see what TCer's thought, my vote on the other site was none they are all good. Looks like they didn't like Willie The Pimp
> 
> ...


Not like Willie The Pimp? How can anyone not like Willie The Pimp?

What extraordinary people must inhabit this other site you speak of!


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which is your least fave track from Hot Rats?


I've listened to Hot Rats again with great attention - which is of course not a punishment - with just the aim of determining one track that has maybe a little less to offer than the other tracks. Just to be able to answer your question. I completely failed at my task. They are all excellent without any exception. Of course you knew this because otherwise you would have included the 'all tracks are great'-option in the poll. I suppose you will get very little votes.

A thing I would like to mention is that Hot Rats - although the music is great - hasn't been my favorite Zappa-album or competing for that title. I now know why. The sound quality and mixing of the vinyl copy I own is just bad. It has hardly any dynamics and the high frequencies are suppressed far too much. I've listened to a HQ upload on YouTube of a 1987 remix that is so much more enjoyable, I think I'll have buy it.... This forum is gonna cost me.

Maybe a poll on one of the lesser rated Zappa albums would be interesting!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> I've listened to Hot Rats again with great attention - which is of course not a punishment - with just the aim of determining one track that has maybe a little less to offer than the other tracks. Just to be able to answer your question. I completely failed at my task. They are all excellent without any exception. Of course you knew this because otherwise you would have included the 'all tracks are great'-option in the poll. I suppose you will get very little votes.
> 
> A thing I would like to mention is that Hot Rats - although the music is great - hasn't been my favorite Zappa-album or competing for that title. I now know why. The sound quality and mixing of the vinyl copy I own is just bad. It has hardly any dynamics and the high frequencies are suppressed far too much. I've listened to a HQ upload on YouTube of a 1987 remix that is so much more enjoyable, I think I'll have buy it.... This forum is gonna cost me.
> 
> Maybe a poll on one of the lesser rated Zappa albums would be interesting!


I did suggest Thingfish - anyone game


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Dr Johnson said:


> Not like Willie The Pimp? How can anyone not like Willie The Pimp?
> 
> What extraordinary people must inhabit this other site you speak of!


Extraordinary or something else lol, its a prog music forum that's all I'll say. Couldn't bring myself to vote for a least fave track


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I did suggest Thingfish - anyone game


You did. I ignored it because Thingfish is great. Maybe try Francesco Zappa.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Well, exchange of opinions on Thinghfish would be great too of course


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> You did. I ignored it because Thingfish is great. Maybe try Francesco Zappa.


Or we could vote on the merits of Francesco Zappa's music but that would not fit in the non-classical forum.....


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

you wont like the worst 5 listing of FZ from the same not mentioned site above (not saying I agree with it, far from it)
1. Thing-Fish
2. Cruising With Reuben and the Jets
3. Them or Us
4. The Man From Utopia
5. Jazz From Hell


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I did suggest Thingfish - anyone game


I've heard that one plenty of times


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> you wont like the worst 5 listing of FZ from the same not mentioned site above (not saying I agree with it, far from it)
> 1. Thing-Fish
> 2. Cruising With Reuben and the Jets
> 3. Them or Us
> ...


I'm not keen on Jazz From Hell.


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

As it's been said already, there are no bad tracks - Gumbo Variations is maybe the track I listen to least, but I don't enjoy it any less than any other track, I just don't always feel like listening to a 17 minute jam. But Hot Rats is such a great album because its constituents are all so great alone and just seem to fit together really well. Aesthetically, I've never heard anything else like that album, even from Zappa himself. It's very unique.

The best track I think is It Must Be a Camel, it's one of those pieces you can just get lost in. It's so layered, so many little lines intertwining, forming this dense, contrapuntal texture. In a way, I'm glad there are no more recorded versions - the recording IS the piece, the dense, layered writing evidently faciliated by Zappa's whole overdubs-heavy approach to the entire album. Nobody really seems to talk about this track too often, but it's among my favourite pieces by Frank.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Love Jazz From Hell! Night School is one of FZ's beautiful creations. That piece really moves me. And the live guitar solo St Etienne is also a big favorite. Like many of FZ's other fine solos, it's full of mind bending phrases and musical ideas, and it tells a story. There's a narrative flow, so to speak. I believe it was extracted from a performance of Drowning Witch.

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Them Or Us over the years. Sure, there's a few silly numbers, but there's some brilliant compositions as well. Sinister Footwear, Marqueson's Chicken, and I love the vocal harmonies on several of the R&B/Doo-***, and parody numbers such as Be In My Video. And FZ's vocal delivery on the comical Truck Driver Divorce is priceless!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Casebearer said:


> You probably aren't but you might be if you would listen to it.


Hell, just spend 3 and a half minutes listening to opening number, Peaches En Regalia. It's such a charming and likeable composition with a memorable melody, and a very classical sounding intro.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

It's the only Zappa album I own!


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I think _Hot Rats_ is one half to two thirds a good album. Zappa spends too much time playing guitar, and his playing/improvisational prowess were not at their peak at that time (imo his "golden age" on guitar dates roughly from 1975 to 1984). The compositions themselves are very good (the first and last tracks are stellar bookends to an inconsistent interior), and in particular his abilities as an arranger and producer come to the fore (this is also true of almost all of his '60s output after _Freak Out!_). The heavy slant towards improvisation lets the album down quite a bit in my estimation, though Ian Underwood's solo on _The Gumbo Variations_ is a highlight.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> I think _Hot Rats_ is one half to two thirds a good album. Zappa spends too much time playing guitar, and his playing/improvisational prowess were not at their peak at that time (imo his "golden age" on guitar dates roughly from 1975 to 1984). The compositions themselves are very good (the first and last tracks are stellar bookends to an inconsistent interior), and in particular his abilities as an arranger and producer come to the fore (this is also true of almost all of his '60s output after _Freak Out!_). The heavy slant towards improvisation lets the album down quite a bit in my estimation, though Ian Underwood's solo on _The Gumbo Variations_ is a highlight.


I can't argue with the Crudblud. I too feel the first and last pieces are the strongest compositions on the album. The only guitar driven piece that feels like it goes on a bit too long is Son Of Mr Green Genes. FZ had only been playing guitar for about ten years at this point. He definitely improved over the course of the following decade.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I never heard Hot Rats until I saw this thread. Listened to it and I really like Peaches. The rest is just OK.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I never heard Hot Rats until I saw this thread. Listened to it and I really like Peaches. The rest is just OK.


Good to hear we may have inducted a newbie into the world of FZ


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Good to hear we may have inducted a newbie into the world of FZ


Yeah, there seems to be a lot of promising music to explore. By the way, I'm not a complete newbie to FZ. I've heard some of his stuff before. Love the G-spot tornado!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Yeah, there seems to be a lot of promising music to explore. By the way, I'm not a complete newbie to FZ. I've heard some of his stuff before. Love the G-spot tornado!


G-spot tornado - good choice
Love the Ensemble Modern version on The Yellow Shark, Frank was such a prankster (and a boaster lol)


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> G-spot tornado


I wonder if anyone ever asked Frank what marvelous experience inspired that title?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I wonder if anyone ever asked Frank what marvelous experience inspired that title?


The answer is Roxy and Elsewhere


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Back to topic...

One thing that has impressed me maybe on the same level as his music is how he also took control over the whole chain of activitities that comes with writing, performing, recording and issuing his music. I think it is incredibly difficult to manage all of that at the same time. One particular aspect of that is the improvement of sound quality on his vinyl output over the years. The sound on his later vinyl albums (for instance Them or Us, Thingfish, Jazz from Hell) is just incredible in my opinion.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Some off-topic comments have been removed.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Good to see, if not hear (had to add more characters to post)


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

least favorite: "Gumbo Variations"
most favorite: "It Must Be A Camel"


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