# Beethoven Symphony No 6



## peter jones

Can anyone recommend a British Orchestra recording on Vinyl or CD of Beethoven's 6th. Look forward to your recommendations.


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## Manxfeeder

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I'm a sucker for John Eliot Gardiner (is his orchestra considered British?), but some find his historically informed orchestra too fast and lacking in soul. Rene Liebowitz with the Royal Philharmonic used a modern orchestra with Beethoven's original metronome markings, so he is an alternative.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Manxfeeder said:


> I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I'm a sucker for John Eliot Gardiner (is his orchestra considered British?), but some find his historically informed orchestra too fast and lacking in soul. Rene Liebowitz with the Royal Philharmonic used a modern orchestra with Beethoven's original metronome markings, so he is an alternative.


They were founded in England. Thought they were from somewhere else. They are based in London.


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## Merl

Most of my favourite 6ths are by non-British orchestras (Bohm, Chailly, Szell, Gardiner, Kleiber, etc) but there's one that I love from a fantastic Beethoven cycle.

Mackerras with the SCO


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## Merl

I've just bought Weller and the CBSO's cycle dirt cheap and his 6th is very good, too.









I'm not mad on some of Norrington's Beethoven but if you want a light-speed 6th then go for his with the London Classical Players. You'll either love it or hate it. Less of a stroll in the countryside - more of a Ferrari ride across Saddleworth Moor)! It calms down later on but it is quick.


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## Pugg

peter jones said:


> Can anyone recommend a British Orchestra recording on Vinyl or CD of Beethoven's 6th. Look forward to your recommendations.


Why on earth only British when you can have such very good recordings from Amsterdam/ Vienna/ Berlin, to name a few .


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## Dr Johnson

You could try the version contained in this (I don't think it's available separately):










*You can buy the whole set for under 20 quid.*


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## Poodle

Dr Johnson said:


> You could try the version contained in this (I don't think it's available separately):
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> *You can buy the whole set for under 20 quid.*


Good album Dr Johnson :tiphat:


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## Delicious Manager

Johnnie Burgess said:


> They were founded in England. Thought they were from somewhere else. They are based in London.


Full of British freelance period-instrument musicians.


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## Delicious Manager

Pugg said:


> Why on earth only British when you can have such very good recordings from Amsterdam/ Vienna/ Berlin, to name a few .


Probably a good reason for it. His choice!


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## Pugg

Delicious Manager said:


> Probably a good reason for it. His choice!


That's exactly what I like to know, can be that hurtful.


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## Headphone Hermit

Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI with Kemperer from 1958 - a wonderful version (and from memory, it has been near the top of the 'most recommended' list of the Penguin Guide for decades)


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## Delicious Manager

Pugg said:


> That's exactly what I like to know, can be that hurtful.


Let's call it 'healthy curiosity'. ;-)


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## Merl

Haitink's Beethoven 6 with the LSO (live) is a safe recommendation. Decent reading that won't set yer world on fire but is very well played, beautifully recorded (lovely bass) and a perfect pace. Btw, the account of the 9th, in this cycle, is outstanding.


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## peter jones

Many thanks for all responses, I will make a choice soon. 

Pugg, my reason for choosing a british orchestra is, post-brexit (I chose to remain in the EU), my overwhelming feeling to promote and buy all things british for the forseeable future. I am aware of the many wonderful recordings from the rest of the world but there seemed to be not too many recommendations for a british orchestra (conductor is not a factor for me, they are all very proficient). Once again, many thanks.


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## DavidA

Headphone Hermit said:


> Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI with Kemperer from 1958 - a wonderful version (and from memory, it has been near the top of the 'most recommended' list of the Penguin Guide for decades)


Be prepared for a slow, slow Peasant's merrymaking though!


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## Headphone Hermit

DavidA said:


> Be prepared for a slow, slow Peasant's merrymaking though!


It is still one of the 'four star' recordings of this work .... and doesn't sound laboured "This account of the Pastoral stands out among Klemperer's Philharmonia Beethoven recordings...the performance overall is memorable for its combination of warmth and drama".... and a real bargain at about £6 for the download

A full(ish) list of recordings, many with reviews, available at http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/...oven-Symphony-No-6-in-F-major-Op-68-'Pastoral'


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## Genoveva

peter jones said:


> Can anyone recommend a British Orchestra recording on Vinyl or CD of Beethoven's 6th. Look forward to your recommendations.


In my opinion one of the most useful places to obtain reliable recommendations about the best recordings of classical music is the "Presto" website: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/

The process is easy. Select "composers and works" from the list on the left. Then select the relevant composer, in this case Beethoven. Look down the list of "major works" to find Symphony No 6. Then you will find a list of recommendations from the likes of Gramophone, Penguin Guide, etc.

If you are looking for a recommended British orchestra recording of the Pastoral Symphony, you will see under Gramophone 2006 "Editor's Choice" a recording by the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Bernard Haitink.

I don't have that recording myself but I suspect it's very good, as both orchestra and conductor are top notch.

Among my own favourites of the Pastoral Symphony are Bohm/Vienna Philharmonic and David Zinman/Zurich Tonhalle.

The Presto website is good for very many composers and the same procedure as above can be used.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Delicious Manager said:


> Full of British freelance period-instrument musicians.


Is there anything wrong with that.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Merl said:


> I've just bought Weller and the CBSO's cycle dirt cheap and his 6th is very good, too.
> 
> View attachment 87567
> 
> 
> I'm not mad on some of Norrington's Beethoven but if you want a light-speed 6th then go for his with the London Classical Players. You'll either love it or hate it. Less of a stroll in the countryside - more of a Ferrari ride across Saddleworth Moor)! It calms down later on but it is quick.


If Norrington is fast what do think of Krajan who takes over 4 minutes less to do it on his 1962 taking only 35:50 to do it?


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## Manxfeeder

Headphone Hermit said:


> Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI with Kemperer from 1958 - a wonderful version (and from memory, it has been near the top of the 'most recommended' list of the Penguin Guide for decades)


I forgot about that one. I really like it. I guess the name "Klemperer" threw me off track.


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## Headphone Hermit

Manxfeeder said:


> I forgot about that one. I really like it. I guess the name "Klemperer" threw me off track.


Don't let it do so ..... he wasn't as sluggish as his later reputation. Its well worth a listen (I've just really enjoyed listening again to it)


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## Headphone Hermit

Johnnie Burgess said:


> If Norrington is fast what do think of Krajan who takes over 4 minutes less to do it on his 1962 taking only 35:50 to do it?


Karajan was fairly fast, but the biggest difference to the timing was that he left out some repeats, (for example, the first repeat in the first movement). Some liked it that way, others very much did not


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## Merl

Headphone Hermit said:


> Karajan was fairly fast, but the biggest difference to the timing was that he left out some repeats, (for example, the first repeat in the first movement). Some liked it that way, others very much did not


You beat me to it. I've got 3 of the Karajan cycles and each account is similarly swift but he omits repeats. His 6ths are fairly average in comparison to the other symphonies. I believe it was a symphony he never cared for much. Been listening to Pletnev's cycle over the past week or so and it's very impressive (first time I'd given it a proper spin).


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## Pugg

Headphone Hermit said:


> Karajan was fairly fast, but the biggest difference to the timing was that he left out some repeats, (for example, the first repeat in the first movement). Some liked it that way, others very much did not


Some didn't even notice it, I am sure off that .


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## Merl

Genoveva said:


> If you are looking for a recommended British orchestra recording of the Pastoral Symphony, you will see under Gramophone 2006 "Editor's Choice" a recording by the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Bernard Haitink.
> 
> I don't have that recording myself but I suspect it's very good, as both orchestra and conductor are top notch.


It's a very good, solid account from a strong cycle. It's not top of my recommendations but youll be hard-faced not to be impressed with it. As I said before, the account of #9 ifrom that cycle s one of the better ones out there.


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## Merl

Just remembered De Burgos did a complete cycle with the LSO (Collins Classics). Loughran with the LPO too - I have only listened to a few clips on youtube (there's loads of clips of a cycle on there) but it sounds competent enough.


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## Pugg

peter jones said:


> Many thanks for all responses, I will make a choice soon.
> 
> Pugg, my reason for choosing a british orchestra is, post-brexit (I chose to remain in the EU), my overwhelming feeling to promote and buy all things british for the forseeable future. I am aware of the many wonderful recordings from the rest of the world but there seemed to be not too many recommendations for a british orchestra (conductor is not a factor for me, they are all very proficient). Once again, many thanks.


Thanks for this explanation.


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## realdealblues

If you want a British Orchestra and you just want the 6th without having to buy a complete cycle then get this recording with Antal Dorati conducting the London Symphony Orchestra which also includes a fantastic 5th. You will not be sorry.

View attachment 87684


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## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> If you want a British Orchestra and you just want the 6th without having to buy a complete cycle then get this recording with Antal Dorati conducting the London Symphony Orchestra which also includes a fantastic 5th. You will not be sorry.
> 
> View attachment 87684


Ah yes, I forgot how GREAT this performance of the 5th is.






[2] Andante con moto

[3-4] Allegro - Allegro


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## Triplets

Klaus tendtstedt recorded a few versions with the London Philharmonic all recommendable


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## Pugg

peter jones said:


> Many thanks for all responses, I will make a choice soon.
> 
> Pugg, my reason for choosing a british orchestra is, post-brexit (I chose to remain in the EU), my overwhelming feeling to promote and buy all things british for the forseeable future. I am aware of the many wonderful recordings from the rest of the world but there seemed to be not too many recommendations for a british orchestra (conductor is not a factor for me, they are all very proficient). Once again, many thanks.


Sill puzzled by this, does it helps the economy you think?


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## Johnnie Burgess

Pugg said:


> Sill puzzled by this, does it helps the economy you think?


He might just want to promote things done by a British orchestra. Why should the orchestra's from the other EU countries get all the praise.


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## Pugg

It's not the praise, although Europeans are better, it's about economy , so he told .


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## LarryShone

Academy of Ancient Music/Hogwood. Recorded in London in the 80s.


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## Johnnie Burgess

LarryShone said:


> Academy of Ancient Music/Hogwood. Recorded in London in the 80s.


Another fine British orchestra.:tiphat:


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## Becca

Johnnie Burgess said:


> If Norrington is fast what do think of Krajan who takes over 4 minutes less to do it on his 1962 taking only 35:50 to do it?


post deleted,,,,,,,,,,,


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## KenOC

In the days of LPs it was common to omit repeats, often in order to fit the movements of the piece nicely to the sides of the LP. Each side could hold about 25 minutes, or a bit more but at the risk of serious inner-groove distortion.

Any performance that was originally recorded for LP release may be lacking some or all repeats. Taking repeats seems more common today, either due to the generous time allowance of the CD format or changes in taste, or both.


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## Wood

I enjoy London Symphony Orchestra / Jochum


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## Johnnie Burgess

KenOC said:


> In the days of LPs it was common to omit repeats, often in order to fit the movements of the piece nicely to the two sides of the LP. Each side could hold about 25 minutes, or a bit more but at the risk of serious inner-groove distortion.
> 
> Any performance that was originally recorded for LP release may be lacking some or all repeats. Taking repeats seems more common today, either due to the generous time allowance of the CD format or changes in taste, or both.


Hearing the repeats is nice. If Beethoven wrote them why take them out and if you do you should at least put on the cd or other recording that you did.


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## KenOC

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Hearing the repeats is nice. If Beethoven wrote them why take them out and if you do you should at least put on the cd or other recording that you did.


An interesting example: Beethoven struggled long and hard to decide whether to repeat the expo in his Eroica. On the one hand, it was new and complex music, and the repeat might help as things moved forward into the development. On the other, it was already, even without the repeat, the longest symphony yet written.

He rehearsed it both ways over several days and decided, narrowly, to write the repeat in. I suspect it might as well have gone the other way. Of course today we consider Beethoven's decision to have the force of Moses's tablets!


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## Johnnie Burgess

KenOC said:


> An interesting example: Beethoven struggled long and hard to decide whether to repeat the expo in his Eroica. On the one hand, it was new and complex music, and the repeat might help as things moved forward into the development. On the other, it was already, even without the repeat, the longest symphony yet written.
> 
> He rehearsed it both ways over several days and decided, narrowly, to write the repeat in. I suspect it might as well have gone the other way. Of course today we consider Beethoven's decision to have the force of Moses's tablets!


If you are going to change what Beethoven or another composer wrote at least be honest enough to say you changed it. Give your reason but do not say you played it like the composer wrote it.


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## KenOC

Johnnie Burgess said:


> If you are going to change what Beethoven or another composer wrote at least be honest enough to say you changed it. Give your reason but do not say you played it like the composer wrote it.


That might require a book! Beethoven said the ideal size of an orchestra for his symphonies was about 60, but performances today are often played by close to 100. The larger number of strings means more flutes, clarinets and so forth are required than Beethoven called for, so that they can be heard. Conductors routinely fiddle with the brass parts to better take advantage of modern valved instruments not available to Beethoven. Other adjustments may be made to suit the orchestra or the hall. And of course few conductors are careful to follow Beethoven's clearly stated metronome markings.

In short, departures from "the composer's intentions" are quite common, and are often for good reasons.


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## Manxfeeder

Wood said:


> I enjoy London Symphony Orchestra / Jochum


I was just about to ask about that. I have heard that it is very good. I can only find it bundled in the Jochum Icon box set. I've been dithering about spending all that money, because right now, I have about nine Beethoven cycles (two Karajans, Szell, Bernstein, Blomstedt, and others). And more frustrating is, I can't find any samples in YouTube videos or Spotify to give it a prehearing.

Is Jochum is doing something revelatory here?


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## Johnnie Burgess

KenOC said:


> That might require a book! Beethoven said the ideal size of an orchestra for his symphonies was about 60, but performances today are often played by close to 100. The larger number of strings means more flutes, clarinets and so forth are required than Beethoven called for, so that they can be heard. Conductors routinely fiddle with the brass parts to better take advantage of modern valved instruments not available to Beethoven. Other adjustments may be made to suit the orchestra or the hall. And of course few conductors are careful to follow Beethoven's clearly stated metronome markings.
> 
> In short, departures from "the composer's intentions" are quite common, and are often for good reasons.


With the financial problems orchestra's are having they might be back to they days of about 60 members.


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## Wood

Manxfeeder said:


> I was just about to ask about that. I have heard that it is very good. I can only find it bundled in the Jochum Icon box set. I've been dithering about spending all that money, because right now, I have about nine Beethoven cycles (two Karajans, Szell, Bernstein, Blomstedt, and others). And more frustrating is, I can't find any samples in YouTube videos or Spotify to give it a prehearing.
> 
> Is Jochum is doing something revelatory here?


I can't help you too much I'm afraid. I have it digitised from a cassette copy of a library CD loaned by me 20+ years ago. Despite all that it sounds so fresh and vivid and is my clear favourite out of the various Beethoven 6 that I own.

To my untrained ears it doesn't sound unique compared to other versions, and is certainly un-HIP, so if you pay a lot for it expecting something outstanding and different, then you may be disappointed.

OTOH it has a level of joie de vivre not apparent in my other versions, many of which are very good too. It doesn't feel revelatory, but it is the perfection of the Seventies sound world for Germanic music.

Amazon UK currently have an LP of this going for a tenner.


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## Vaneyes

Chirping in on what's been said re 60 members, I agree with LvB for Nos. 1, 2, 4, 7, 8. I've heard say WAM was a proponent of big bands...Mannheim Steamroller, for instance. Wolfie must've been planning something before his untimely departure. Mahler, understandably, was a big band guy at heart, though Harding did a nice job with a more intimate, yet boisterous M4. Impressive out-of-the-hat-trick, that, say wha. To the thread topic at large, I probably said something already. But if not, I'll be back.

I'm back, with as requested, a UK band for LvB 6. Here's a Hanover tease (their 44 members contradict what I said earlier). :tiphat:


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## Larkenfield

One of Beethoven's favorite books was a work by a Lutheran pastor called _Reflections on the Works of God and His Providence Throughout All Nature_, an example of the early-Romantic love of the natural world. The first edition in German was originally published in the 1780s and I believe that one can see why it was of such deep and profound inspiration to the composer, whether one shared his views or not.

https://archive.org/stream/reflectionsonw00stur#page/n5


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## SixFootScowl

Larkenfield said:


> One of Beethoven's favorite books was a work by a Lutheran pastor called _Reflections on the Works of God and His Providence Throughout All Nature_, an example of the early-Romantic love of the natural world. The first edition in German was originally published in the 1780s and I believe that one can see why it was of such deep and profound inspiration to the composer whether one shared his views or not.
> 
> https://archive.org/stream/reflectionsonw00stur#page/n5


Thanks for posting that. December XXII on page 425 is on music.


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## SONDEK

My go-to Beethoven 6th has always been BRUNO WALTER's classic stereo version. But if you ever stumble across this (quite rare) 1988 CD, it is beautifully played and recorded.

Prepare for a treat.

*HEINZ ROGNER & YOMIURI NIPPON SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA
Beethoven Symphony No. 6"Pastorale"*


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## Merl

SONDEK said:


> My go-to Beethoven 6th has always been BRUNO WALTER's classic stereo version. But if you ever stumble across this (quite rare) 1988 CD, it is beautifully played and recorded.
> 
> Prepare for a treat.
> 
> *HEINZ ROGNER & YOMIURI NIPPON SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA
> Beethoven Symphony No. 6"Pastorale"*


One of the two decent performances from that Rogner cycle. I reviewed it here.


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## Musicaterina

I was lucky to listen to Beethoven 6th played by the Chamber Orchestra of Europe live some years ago in the Philharmonie of Cologne. That was really a great performance. Unfortunately I don't know who was the conductor then.

By the way, it is my favourite Beethoven symphony anyway, but I also like the 7th and naturally the 9th very much.


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