# Need for Intermediate Level Compositions



## Nox

I know everyone wants to make their mark by writing 'the' composition...but the more I look through available music ...the more need I see for intermediate level works...

...and although these would likely end up as student works...they don't have to...

...easy to play doesn't necessarily mean the work can't be musically complex...and I see a big challenge there...

...how many composers make it big? How many get to see their works become popular and remain popular?

...I'm working on the Seitz pieces in the Suzuki book 4...these are beautiful, enjoyable works...and because they're in the Suzuki books...everyone has heard them...Seitz lives! :lol: 

Point is...instead of trying to compose as complicated an advanced work as you can...maybe we need more intermediate works emerging from the genius of young composers' imaginations...


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## baroque flute

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Sep 13 2004, 03:12 PM
> *I know everyone wants to make their mark by writing 'the' composition...but the more I look through available music ...the more need I see for intermediate level works...
> 
> ...and although these would likely end up as student works...they don't have to...
> 
> ...easy to play doesn't necessarily mean the work can't be musically complex...and I see a big challenge there...
> 
> ...how many composers make it big? How many get to see their works become popular and remain popular?
> 
> ...I'm working on the Seitz pieces in the Suzuki book 4...these are beautiful, enjoyable works...and because they're in the Suzuki books...everyone has heard them...Seitz lives! :lol:
> 
> Point is...instead of trying to compose as complicated an advanced work as you can...maybe we need more intermediate works emerging from the genius of young composers' imaginations...
> [snapback]1920[/snapback]​*


What kind of intermediate works are you suggesting, and what you do consider intermediate as opposed to beginning or advanced? I am interested in what you are saying here, but am curious to know exactly what you mean.


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## Nox

I guess I'd like to see more works like the Seitz...so Suzuki Book 4-5 type material...or RCM Grades 4-5. I'd like to see most of the material in first position for strings...but with some easy shifting involved.

Most orchestra/ensemble works require a min. of Grade 6-8 and so many people never get there.

Even material where certain parts are interchangable for certain instruments for ensemble work (i.e. violin 1= flute = oboe) so that different groups of individual can successfully play the pieces...

...we're already doing stuff like that anyway...I'll be playing an easy oboe piece on my violin for my daughter's piano accompaniest class in the spring music festival recitals...or I'm currently working on a transcribed Bach (from flute to violin)...so I'd like to see some more works where the substitution of instruments is planned for...

...like I said...I think the challenge would be to make the pieces nicely complex (also gratifying for the players!!!) without being technically too difficult for them at the intermediate stage of playing...


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## baroque flute

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Sep 14 2004, 02:02 AM
> *I guess I'd like to see more works like the Seitz...so Suzuki Book 4-5 type material...or RCM Grades 4-5. I'd like to see most of the material in first position for strings...but with some easy shifting involved.
> 
> Most orchestra/ensemble works require a min. of Grade 6-8 and so many people never get there.
> 
> Even material where certain parts are interchangable for certain instruments for ensemble work (i.e. violin 1= flute = oboe) so that different groups of individual can successfully play the pieces...
> 
> ...we're already doing stuff like that anyway...I'll be playing an easy oboe piece on my violin for my daughter's piano accompaniest class in the spring music festival recitals...or I'm currently working on a transcribed Bach (from flute to violin)...so I'd like to see some more works where the substitution of instruments is planned for...
> 
> ...like I said...I think the challenge would be to make the pieces nicely complex (also gratifying for the players!!!) without being technically too difficult for them at the intermediate stage of playing...
> [snapback]1928[/snapback]​*


I think that would be fun to do, and not hard! Though I would do it in a Baroque style myself.


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## Daniel

I agree. The problem is - I think many composer think so - that they would be not free to make what they want. They would be limited. And if THEY were the performers, they wouldn't write easy stuff. :lol: But besides there are some works done by great composers for youth and beginners. To mention e.g. Dvorak's Sonatina (violin) (for his children), Mozart's children and youth works, Schubert Sonatinas (violin), Bach's keyboard books for his children, Schumann keyboard works for the youth, Mendelssohn's keyboard works for the youth etc. and those lots of student concerts which are for studying aims as you mentioned: Seitz, Rieding, Küchler etc.

I can understand that composers want to express themselve free. But they could compose more intemediate stuff right, which can also be HIGH MUSICAL LEVEL. That is a point many forget. The musical value is not related with technical difficulty.


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## Nox

You're right...there is some stuff...and I've been playing a bit of it...

...but it would be nice to have more/new stuff too...

...if a composer where to do intermediate music...and it caught on...just think of the revenues he'd collect...and hopefully all his/her own lifetime! :usd:


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## Quaverion

Nox, I agree that intermediate and sometimes even beginner works are the best to practice at certain times. However, I believe that the public does not have a refined enough taste in music to see the best shine through those works. As an example, if we lined up Heifetz, Paganini, Perlman, Shaham, Zuckerman, Mintz, etc. and made each of them play "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" in a very simple fashion, how many people would be able to determine which one was the best?

Also, because many people always link fastest and most emotional with the best (I sort of do as well  ) I think Sarasate, Lalo, and the rest of that bunch are commonly held as the best.

I think that if people want music that is easier to play, they can rearrange it to make it more suitable for their needs. That way, later on, when the player has more skill, they feel more familiar with the piece.


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## Nox

...well, then we need someone willing to re-arrange...but I've always had the impression that re-arranged works are considered of 'low' value...and so no one wants to actually perform them...

...do you really think people only want to hear fast works? Seems like there are an awful lot of adagios out there...and some are very VERY dull....(others of course...beautiful)...


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## Quaverion

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Sep 18 2004, 12:28 PM
> *...well, then we need someone willing to re-arrange...but I've always had the impression that re-arranged works are considered of 'low' value...and so no one wants to actually perform them...
> 
> ...do you really think people only want to hear fast works? Seems like there are an awful lot of adagios out there...and some are very VERY dull....(others of course...beautiful)...
> [snapback]1999[/snapback]​*


I think what people want to hear depends upon the mood people are in. I must say, people do like slow movements, but many of the uneducated hill-billies going to these high class performances would think them dull. I love them just as much as any other tempo myself, but others may not. I agree about the "low-value." I think people should be taught at conservatories how to arrange music properly. <_< This is a good topic Nox. It is good that you brought it up.


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## Quaverion

Overall, I think you are totally correct.


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## Daniel

Rearranging might be nice, but I in many eyes it isn't seen in the same value as the original. One other point: Why did the composer write it as he does in the original?...In all cases. arrangements can't contain ALL what the original is special for. But it could show some new aspects as well, though I think not often. Anyway, I don't like rearrangeremts that much...


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## Nox

> _Originally posted by Quaverion_@Sep 19 2004, 04:59 AM
> *Overall, I think you are totally correct.
> [snapback]2005[/snapback]​*


...heh...I luv being correct... :lol:

...that aside...anything that brings more music to the forefront...so more people can play it/ hear it...should be a good thing...so in that regard...rearrangements ar of value...at least I would think so...


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## Daniel

I didn't mean there isn't value, but all what you arrange (if you make it easier) must loose facettes, details, and you come away from composer's intension...


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## 009

> *I didn't mean there isn't value, but all what you arrange (if you make it easier) must loose facettes, details, and you come away from composer's intension... *


If rearrangement means dabbling with the keys, positions, some bowing marks then it's still acceptable to me.
But I don't like those with excessive ornaments reduction. Ornaments are there for specific purposes... sometimes it's not wise to simplify them.


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