# Waltz or minuet ?



## tonyyyyguitar (May 17, 2008)

I played a piece which I thought of as a lively waltz to a friend (the title is simply 'Dance'). She thought it was a minuet. Neither of us could quite define the difference - Wikipedia didnt clarify much either .  

Anyone have any ideas?


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

I can usually differentiate the two when I hear a work, but I'm afraid I don't know the exact definitions of both.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

Waltz = 3/4 time. Minuet = 6/8 time.


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

Um... no. Both are 3/4. Minuets are sometimes 3/8, but never 6/8.

In terms of difference, I can't definitively tell.


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## tonyyyyguitar (May 17, 2008)

opus67 said:


> I can usually differentiate the two when I hear a work, but I'm afraid I don't know the exact definitions of both.


I can _usually _feel an difference intuitively too. Maybe its more the difference in period and composer, though

Also minuet/minuetto is not the same I think


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

Some differences:

- upcoming time: minuet grew from a former folkdanse to a royal danse (France, ~ 17th century), valse (public, Vienna, ~19th century)
- steps
- musical form: minuet has usually three parts (minuet - trio - minuet) with basically periodical structures (4-8-16...), valse often splitted in many valses, not that strict rules in length...
- rhythm: minuet with a pulse of three quarternotes with a light emphasize on the first, valse: quarternotes and typical for Vienna: half - quarter, half - quarter and so on, English valse, the other way
- use: minuet got implemented into suites, sonatas and symphonies..., valse remained more in an entertaining-context


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2008)

Yagan Kiely said:


> Um... no. Both are 3/4. Minuets are sometimes 3/8, but never 6/8.
> 
> In terms of difference, I can't definitively tell.


*Yeeks*, careless and stupid me. Too much red wine.


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> (public, Vienna, ~19th century)


Mozart wrote one or two.



> quarternotes and typical for Vienna: half - quarter, half - quarter and so on,


Could you explain that again. And also translate from American please.


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

Rather translating from German...

You are right, the valse is first mentioned in the late 18th century (developed out of the German Dance), but was frowned upon because of being too "revealing" (women). Becoming really popular and in the way we know it nowadays, it is an invention of the 19th century.
In the case of Mozart, he probably wrote "German Dances", and because of the similiarity later on, some editors entitled them as valses.

Concerning the rhythm, I meant the beat: typically you have accentuations on the 1 and 3 (connection to the steps --> two measures for one full sequence, in 6/8 of course just one measure), the English Valse has a "syncopated" rhythm with accentuations on 1 and 2.


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## tonyyyyguitar (May 17, 2008)

thanks Daniel - thats cleared things quite a bit 

by German Dance - do you mean Laendler...or is this a new controversy


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

With "German Dance" I mean the genre of "Deutscher Tanz". As a musical genre Ländler, Deutscher Tanz and valse differ, but in fact the borders are fluent in that time. One theorie says, Ländler and valse grew out of the German Dance. Ländlers were danced in later times exactly like valses.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Minuets and Waltzes sound nothing like one another.. if it has oom-cha-cha oom-cha-cha in the accompaniment part then it's a waltz.


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> Minuets and Waltzes sound nothing like one another.. if it has oom-cha-cha oom-cha-cha in the accompaniment part then it's a waltz.


Waltzes got more obscure later. Tchaik 6 for example. Waltzes CAN be in 4/4 also.


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