# What Changes do you think need to be made to help the symphony orchestra problem?



## xRIOSxx (Sep 8, 2012)

For my World Issues Class, for my summative assignment I need to write an essay about any world issue of my choosing. I decided I wanted to do something I can relate to, so I decided to discuss the problem symphony orchestras are facing and the changes they could incorporate to better the situation. So now I'm here asking you guys what you think orchestras need to change in the future. Personally, I believe they need to create a much larger emphasis on digital marketing, publishing, distribution, and overall online presence. I haven't fully formulated my thoughts and ideas yet, but I think things like the LSO Live Mahler cycle that was engineered specifically for itunes are great ideas. By doing so the orchestras can self publish their recordings without needing involvement from major labels, and its virtually free to digitally distribute your content. What else do you guys think orchestras can do digitally that can help their current situation? What else do you guys think could help orchestras outside the digital realm?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

The concertgebouw orchestra is starting to release apps for each concert series which will broadcast the concert live onto your iPad. You can then access more info such as interviews with the conductor and orchestra, and you can even control your viewing I believe, zooming in and out and changing angles.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

I think you're right about digital presence. The LSO is very good at that. I've been impressed with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra in that regard too.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

1) Stop paying conductors more than the entire orchestra combined.

2) Require new literature be performed alongside the standard repertoire every season and then have the performance of the new work and information on the piece given by the composer available for online streaming.

3) Occasionally feature members of the orchestra as concerto soloists instead of spending huge amounts of money bringing in outside guest artists all the time.

4) Create youth orchestras within the community that perform occasionally with the parent orchestra to draw community and financial interest in both organizations.


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## xRIOSxx (Sep 8, 2012)

Olias said:


> 1) Stop paying conductors more than the entire orchestra combined.
> 
> 2) Require new literature be performed alongside the standard repertoire every season and then have the performance of the new work and information on the piece given by the composer available for online streaming.
> 
> ...


It's funny, this outline matches up pretty well with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, the closest symphony to me. I don't know how much Peter Ounjian makes, but most of their concerts open with a concerto/chamber piece as well as a new piece, they do hire many outside guests, but a lot of their concerto performances feature there own players, and the toronto symphony youth orchestra plays with the TSO a few times a year.


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## xRIOSxx (Sep 8, 2012)

emiellucifuge said:


> The concertgebouw orchestra is starting to release apps for each concert series which will broadcast the concert live onto your iPad. You can then access more info such as interviews with the conductor and orchestra, and you can even control your viewing I believe, zooming in and out and changing angles.


Im going to need to look this up, it sounds incredible! I'd definitely use this app. This goes in my paper!


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Have discounts for younger concert-goers. This is incredibly useful for drawing in your future audience. It's what hooked me in.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

All of the above sound good. For a different (and probably unsellable) perspective, there's an essay somewhere by G.B.Shaw advocating persuasively for public financing of orchestras. Yes, he had socialist tendencies, and the Tea Party would scream bloody murder at the thought, but his bigger point -- that governments and taxes exist to do for the public good things that cannot be done profitably by the private sector -- is worth keeping in mind as the debate continues. 

george


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

A better economy. "Luxuries" are always the first to be cut when times get tight. 
Get out of the concert hall and into the school auditoriums (I know, auditoria). 
Bring the students in to dress rehearsals. 
Return arts and music to the k-12 schools. 
North America, Stop thinking that only foreign conductors are good conductors. 
Build a relationship with your local community in the same way that sports teams do.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Olias said:


> 1) Stop paying conductors more than the entire orchestra combined.
> 
> 2) Require new literature be performed alongside the standard repertoire every season and then have the performance of the new work and information on the piece given by the composer available for online streaming.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me :3


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

If they do release a self published cd, a good idea is to give a bonus track people can download. Naxos have done this & BBC music magazine has these 'free' downloads with some issues (& also sometimes a cd). 

& this might sound stupid but what about the thing you have in coffee shops like a 'frequent sipper' card? I mean, if the person downloads a certain number of tracks/pieces, then (say) the 10th one is free?

Dunno if that helps, I'm not that much into IT.

drpaetorus and Olias get my 'vote' to come down here and do the things they've listed. Some 'outreach' things are being done though, but I think more 'family concerts' or ones put on for school students (esp. free or low cost ones) like we had back in the days would be great.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Ensure governmental funding and keep ticket prices down.


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## campy (Aug 16, 2012)

Compulsory concert attendance.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I personally do not think that an "online presence" is the answer. I think the youth culture put way too much value on it as a tool. The fact is that even with an online presence someone has to be interested in the orchestra in the first place. Online users are not likely to just "stumble" onto an orchestras website and say "wow this is cool! I should listen to classical music more!". I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it's not likely to happen. It's unfortunate that many orchestras do not have the budgets they need to make their "presence" more known in their own communities because that is where the answer lies. Orchestras need audiences and very few of them are willing to make sacrifices to gain new audiences. Part of that is the hindrance of unionized musicians unwilling to play unless they are paid. If musicians would donate more of their time to educate the public by playing free in public places and in school programs they would find their audiences increasing over time. They have to take chances by advertising and also performing in unconventional places. 

It would also help if music education was put back into the curriculum of all public schools. I think it should be against the law not to have a required music ed program. Young people will still have "their music" but I also think with the right education and exposure young people would also make room for classical music. Youth are the key to any orchestras future because they are the concert goers of tomorrow. And I think most orchestras do a very poor job of reaching the youth, which will ultimately be to their own demise.

A few years back some young classical musicians had the idea of performing in clubs in small ensembles and I think that was a brilliant idea because it took the music to places where they would not normally if ever be heard and heard by people who might not have given any notice or thought to classical music before. Folk musicians started doing concerts in homes and that has been incredibly successful. What if skilled classical musicians started doing the same thing? Performing all over the community in peoples homes and using those intimate home concerts as opportunities to promote the orchestras they work for. 

There are lots of ideas and things orchestras can do and an online presence should be one of those things but you're sadly misled if you think an "online presence" can be an orchestras salvation.

Kevin


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Olias said:


> 1) Stop paying conductors more than the entire orchestra combined.
> 
> 2) Require new literature be performed alongside the standard repertoire every season and then have the performance of the new work and information on the piece given by the composer available for online streaming.
> 
> ...


I love this because it has a promise of making attending a live performance more affordable, and ignores, I think rightly, the digital world.

The more you go digital, the less you are inviting people to make the effort to park their butts in a seat and attend a live performance. All the other approaches, apps, etc. are more about selling recordings, which is also important, but not anywhere near the top priority of keeping an orchestra, and an audience for whom it performs, alive. I would love to see a statistic of how many live audience attendees were brought to the orchestra via apps  The orchestra in good financial shape, live performing and full real audiences is the font from which all else flows, and is the highest priority.


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## regnaDkciN (May 24, 2011)

drpraetorus said:


> A better economy. "Luxuries" are always the first to be cut when times get tight.
> Get out of the concert hall and into the school auditoriums (I know, auditoria).
> Bring the students in to dress rehearsals.
> *Return arts and music to the k-12 schools.*
> ...


That really is the big one. We may have groaned about "music appreciation" classes back in the late '60s, but at least we learned something about it. For the vast majority of Americans under the age of 45 or so, classical music is practically invisible -- people know little (and what they are made to "know" in popular youth culture is that it's stuffy old music for stuffy old people) and, therefore, care even less.

The state of the economy can be pointed to as a factor, but the fact is that attention to classical music fell off the cliff even during the boom years of the 1990s...which, coincidentally, was when we got the first waves of classical music-illiterate young people entering their twenties. If we can't regain their interest -- and that starts with gaining some knowledge of the genre, even if it has to be "crammed down our throats" like other subjects such as algebra and physics -- then the orchestra and the rest of classical music will be dead in the United States in the next thirty years.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

regnaDkciN said:


> ... If we can't regain their interest -- and that starts with gaining some knowledge of the genre, even if it has to be "crammed down our throats" like other subjects such as algebra and physics -- then the orchestra and the rest of classical music will be dead in the United States in the next thirty years.


It might make it worse, if you use the cramming (or ramming?) approach. Classical is already seen by some people as a thing like plain green veges, good for you but you don't like it anyway.

I think that ultimately, the old 'meat and three veg' format of the traditional concert is kind of now not just the one way to give a concert. Here, our orchestras are doing things like playing a film score live simultaneously while the film is playing above them on a big screen. It was done with Howard Shore's 'Lord of the Rings' films, and its being done with other films too (even documentaries, eg. on nature, which go well with this sort of thing). Then there's the orchestra collaborating with musicians outside classical, like from rock and jazz.

I don't know if this is too broad for this thread, the impression I get is the OP wanted to talk more about digital things. But ultimately things are changing, and classical can embrace the things young or younger people are interested in, but it may well not be the 'old' ways. I think that's good, I see classical as a living thing, I don't see it as dying if it can adapt to things in the here and now. But the days of around before 1990 are over, its adapt or die time now, basically. & some days depending on my mood I feel hopeful of the future of classical, other times not. But my definition of classical is not really that its strictly or always separate from other genres in music, in many respects the 'fences' and 'boundaries' have been erected by those who want them there. I don't on the whole, I'm like Bernstein and Schnittke who did not see a need to always draw firm lines between so called 'high' and 'low' art. Its all quite intermixed now, has been for ages.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

drpraetorus said:


> Bring the students in to dress rehearsals.


yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes


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