# What’s your format?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Some news I haven't seen mentioned here, but which may be of interest to some.

The RIAA has issued its *2018 year-end report* on the US music industry. It shows that trends of the last few years are continuing. Here's what it says about the overall music market:

Streaming - Now 75% of all recorded music revenues; dollar value up 30% from 2017 levels.

Digital file downloads - 11% of revenues, down 26% from 2017 levels.

Physical media - 12% of revenues, down 23% from 2017 levels. CD sales revenues were down 34% and dropped below $1 billion for the first time since 1986. LP sales revenues were up a bit and are now 60% of CD sales revenues.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

I can see why Digital file downloads are down. I used to do a lot of that but now when I want something I go to my Amazon Music Unlimited subscription, which I pay $8.76 a month for, and record the music to .mp3 files.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm still a physical CD person. Ever since Olivia Newton-John said Let's Get Physical, I've been getting physical. (That's what she meant, right?)


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I listen to all my music as FLAC files from my digital music player, whether it's over headphones or on the stereo.

The source for my music files is probably 90% CD (ripped to FLAC) and 10% hi-res downloads from places like HDTracks.

I subscribe to no streaming services. I like to own my music, and I don't want any more monthly fees.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2019)

Now basically 100% FLAC files, streamed from a computer to a DAC or the digital input of my CD/SACD player. More than 95% ripped from CDs, but lately I'm more likely to get a FLAC download from presto classical, eclassical or hyperion-records.co.uk. I usually opt for standard resolution, unless the price difference is negligible.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm a happy camper with physical media and streaming from Naxos Music Library.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Several years I ripped all my CDs to Amazon then Amazon stopped carrying them, now mostly downloaded Amazon Unlimited and iDagio


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

LPs CDs and You Tube


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

CDs (90%)
Streaming (5%) - like the Berlin Philharmonic
LPs (2%)
Youtube (3%)


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

CD's. vinyl and hi res downloads.

Hi res downloads are quickly becoming a larger part of my collection, especially DSD.

As of now, I don't stream.

I use YT only for research, to sample music/composers that are unknown to me.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Vinyl will soon be outselling CDs:
https://www.cnet.com/news/vinyl-records-will-soon-outsell-cds-for-the-first-time-since-1986/
I consider this a positive, welcome trend because vinyl cannot be pirated in the same way and benefits retail sales... There's the value of personal ownership plus the warmer sound that some listeners prefer.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Larkenfield said:


> Vinyl will soon be outselling CDs:
> https://www.cnet.com/news/vinyl-records-will-soon-outsell-cds-for-the-first-time-since-1986/
> I consider this a positive, welcome trend because vinyl cannot be pirated in the same way and benefits retail sales... There's the value of personal ownership plus the warmer sound that some listeners prefer.


But note this quote from your link:
'Just because vinyl may soon outpace CDs doesn't mean music lovers are trading in their iTunes accounts for turntables. Streaming remains the most popular way to consume music, accounting for 80% of industry revenues, and growing 26%, to $4.3 billion, for the first half of 2019.'

Plus, people are not buying vinyl over CDs across all music genres. My guess is the sales of new CM vinyl is minimal.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I try to avoid the hassle of needing highest quality format by overcompensating with better music taste than everyone.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Pianola Rolls .


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Current buyings: No streaming or downloads. 
CDs maybe 85-90%, LPs maybe 10-15% (having difficulties finding ones that interest me).

Collection:
LPs maybe 60%, CDs maybe 40%.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm a CD man myself.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

CD's all the way at home. Even downloads I burn to CD's (or DVD's). 

For the car, 4500+ pop/rock songs in MP3 format on two 32MB USB sticks (the car system did not play the 64 MB stick I got for it).


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I do the lot except vinyl (although I still have Mr Twirly). I play digital media the most (mp3s ripped from FLAC or CD) , then streaming, then CD. Couldn't give you any figures as it depends if I'm at work, on holiday, etc.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

90% lossless rips of CDs
7% SACD rips (which in almost all cases duplicate CD rips from double layer discs) and DVD-A rips
3% downloads, almost all CD quality or better.
My original discs are in storage.
Tidal is a major source of background music, and sometimes foreground music.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> 90% lossless rips of CDs
> 7% SACD rips (which in almost all cases duplicate CD rips from double layer discs) and DVD-A rips
> 3% downloads, almost all CD quality or better.
> My original discs are in storage.
> Tidal is a major source of background music, and sometimes foreground music.


I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Some news I haven't seen mentioned here, but which may be of interest to some.
> 
> The RIAA has issued its *2018 year-end report* on the US music industry. It shows that trends of the last few years are continuing. Here's what it says about the overall music market:
> 
> ...


That pretty much reflect the way it has been for me personally: I discover new recordings on Spotify, I NEVER download and I only buy cds when there is something I hear on Spotify which I no I couldn't live without in case they'd "go-out-of-stream"* (see footnote). This has recently happened with two releases: the chamber ensemble Florilegium's arrangement of Bach's trio sonatas for organ and it also happened with Savall's new recording of the last three Mozart symphonies. Oh, then there is the old bargain purchase, something I don't really need, but which is selling so cheaply that I just have to get it (This happened with Adam Llalom's recording of Brahms' piano concertos on Sony which I got for 3 euros). When I buy I usually use German amazon. I ought to support the last??? Danish store still in business, namely Danacord instead of amazon - but sometimes I forget about this basic "support the local store principle" and just buy from amazon.

[HR] [/HR]

*Footnote: You know things can go out of print, right? So going out of stream means that all of a sudden your favorite music disappears from streaming services - without any warning! Ouch! What if the cd is out of print? How could I possibly live without it?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I once began ripping my collection, including LPs, having a 500 GB external harddisk, but gave up, it takes too long when you even have to start with a big amount of material, IMO. Back then, 1 CD was often around 0.1 GB, I think.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


I have roughly 4000 discs including about 400 hybrid SACDs - so 4400 rips. Not all of them are classical and many of my jazz discs (which include a disproportionate number of SACDs) are less than 40 minutes. As noted, I also have a modest number of downloads. Virtually all of my rips and downloads are lossless. These take up about 1.6 terabytes.

I have three external drives, each of which contains a copy of my music library plus other stuff.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Mostly FLACs stored on my 30TB NAS that I've downloaded from a variety sources and ripped from CDs. I also own a good collection of SACDs for surround listening. If there were any good streaming services that had most of what I listened to I'd subscribe, but most everything I've researched has been pretty limited given my broad tastes.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

CDs including LPs I've either made into CDs myself or paid vendors to remake onto CD as well as MP3s I've downloaded.

One trend I've noticed that supports the stats cited here is the market for used classical CDs on Amazon.com in USA is no longer very good. The market is still good in UK, however. I can find much better options now on ebay and discogs.

So I think the idea that CDs have been abandoned in the classical music marketplace is in the main an American phenomenon.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I wonder what the stats are like for the classical sector alone... Would there be any significant deviation?

BTW I rip all my CDs, SACDs, BDs, DVDs.

When I buy downloads, I buy only hi-res; but I'd rather buy a physical disc if it's significantly cheaper.

Believe me, my LPs (and LDs incidentally) look really nice in my listening room. So do my turntables. Enough said.

No streaming for any serious listening. Free, lossy streaming is used only for sampling purpose; never for serious listening.

Lossy audio has no place in my house.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Most (80-90%) of my listening is on CD, either at home or at work. The rest is Spotify.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I listen to Spotify these days.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I still buy CD's though I usually listen to encodings from them through my computer. I only stream when auditioning (I use Apple Music which has most of the new classical releases). I have also started getting hires downloads as my apartment has no more room left for CD's!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Pianola Rolls .


Highest quality sound reproduction currently available you know :lol:
but I'm having trouble finding Ed Sheeran Rolls might have to make my own..........


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## Curmudgeon (Jun 14, 2019)

CDs, for the most part. I buy a lot used off of Amazon and Ebay, generally. I do download FLAC and MP3 recordings, but generally burn them to a CD if it's something I really enjoy and will listen to a lot. I have 2 2 Terabyte external drives almost filled with stuff I've archived.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

CD's (hybrid SACD's if available) and FLAC files when I can not purchase material in physical format.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Lately, I buy tons of CDs and transfer them to digital, and then listen on my laptop with headphones. While driving, it's either CDs themselves, or streaming on my phone. I was all digital for a while, and my whole life I have been interested in vinyl, but I have been buying less vinyl LPs ever since moving, as my current turntable is complete garbage.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I use everything.

I receive streaming from Qobuz and Tidal.

I download digital files from several vendors.

I buy CDs, mostly from Amazon, but also from other vendors, including bootleg.

I buy physical media, in other formats than CD.

Just about anything. But no problem, only my wallet complains.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

schigolch said:


> I use everything.
> 
> I receive streaming from Qobuz and Tidal.
> 
> ...


So recognizable.....................:lol:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Lately, I buy tons of CDs and transfer them to digital, and then listen on my laptop with headphones. While driving, it's either CDs themselves, or streaming on my phone. I was all digital for a while, and my whole life I have been interested in vinyl, but I have been buying less vinyl LPs ever since moving, as my current turntable is complete garbage.


Simple just get a better turntable 

PS I shun anything digital, in fact I better turn this PC off now :lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Simple just get a better turntable
> 
> PS I shun anything digital, in fact I better turn this PC off now :lol:


I can guarantee, whatever you hear, it's analog (sound waves in air, usually).


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


I have ripped perhaps 250 albums to FLAC files. Depending on the album, of course, the average is around 300mb per disc. If they were all CD rips (they're not), that would run about 75gb. So, if you use 300mb as a rule of thumb, you can easily purchase a Micro-SD card that will hold a ton of music (400 CDs would warrant a 128gb card, 800 CDs a 256gb card, 1,300 CDs a 400gb card, 1,700 CDs a 512gb card).

Now, I have my entire collection on a 400gb Micro-SD card in my Sony NW-A45 Walkman, and there is about 156gb free. But a fair number of my files are high-res, and they take up more space. My 192k/24b Beethoven cycle, for instance, takes up 11gb on its own (CD quality would take up perhaps 1.5gb).

Anyway, long story short, you should get a Micro-SD card, because 121gb onboard storage probably won't cut it. But Micro-SD storage is dirt cheap even at the 256gb level. A relatively inexpensive alternative would be a portable USB SSD drive (1tb is not too terrible expensive, I have a 512gb drive that I back up my music collection onto) or even a thumb drive, but those don't have the virtue of being playable in a portable media player.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Typical 60-minute CD ripped to WAV: 700 MB
Ripped to FLAC: 300-350 MB
Ripped to 320 CBR MP3: 150-200 MB
Ripped to 256K VBR MP3: 100 MB.​


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


I have my entire CD collection ripped and now mostly buy digital when I can for the ease of organization and access to my collection. My computer definitely doesn't have enough storage, and I wouldn't trust having all my music on my computer without a backup anyways for fear of it crashing and losing everything. So I buy external hard drives and back my collection up on those. A 2TB hard drive costs less than $100, 1TB costs about $50.

I don't pay for streaming because I have enough music in my own collection to keep me happy, and I upload everything to my Google Play account which allows me to access my music anywhere I have an internet connection. The only time I'll jump on spotify is to sample a recording they have that I'm considering purchasing.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Some news I haven't seen mentioned here, but which may be of interest to some.
> 
> The RIAA has issued its *2018 year-end report* on the US music industry. It shows that trends of the last few years are continuing. Here's what it says about the overall music market:
> 
> ...


This means: This is, right now, the "golden age" of CDs. They're going for dirt-cheap, in multi-disc editions, so buy 'em up NOW!


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Typical 60-minute CD ripped to WAV: 700 MB
> Ripped to FLAC: 300-350 MB
> Ripped to 320 CBR MP3: 150-200 MB
> Ripped to 256K VBR MP3: 100 MB.​


No problem with wav and flac, because quality extern HD's are relatively inexpensive nowadays.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> This means: This is, right now, the "golden age" of CDs. They're going for dirt-cheap, in multi-disc editions, so buy 'em up NOW!


Yes. There is eventually going to be a "CD Renaissance" akin to the current vinyl revival, and CD prices are going to go way up. In this day and age, brand new, single-disc vinyl LPs go for $20-30. It's outrageous.

Anyway, I'm glad to have rediscovered CDs in this past year. I think they are the best media, though sometimes I do indeed prefer the warmth of vinyl.


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

I am 100% CDs. I have been thinking for a few years now about converting to a digital collection, probably by putting a laptop computer by my stereo, but so far thinking about it is as far as I've gotten.


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## DBLee (Jan 8, 2018)

For serious listening:
Mostly CDs
I prefer LPs for pre-1980s jazz and rock

Streaming for something to listen to while I'm working or falling asleep.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


I have a 2TB external drive where most of my stuff is stored but there's still stuff scattered about on old external drives that I've just not gotten around to moving over and sorting. I should have done it in the summer hols but I couldn't be bothered.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Merl said:


> I have a 2TB external drive where most of my stuff is stored but there's still stuff scattered about on old external drives that I've just not gotten around to moving over and sorting. I should have done it in the summer hols but I couldn't be bothered.


Caution: external drives can fail - it's a good investment to get two and have a spare back-up.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

^ Seriously, one would never have too many copies of backup. Only too few.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Kiki said:


> ^ Seriously, one would never have too many copies of backup. Only too few.


I need to move one of my back-ups offsite.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I think it's wise to have a mix of backup media, as well. Like, one backup on a HDD, one on an SSD (or a flash memory stick/card). 

The real trick is remembering to put new files on the backup. I know I only do it when I have some spare time in a late evening, maybe once every 3-6 months.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


It really depends on the individual. I'm a bit of a nutty collector so I like to download tons of stuff, much of which I'll probably never listen to even if I live 4 lifetimes, and I almost never delete anything. I've invested in a 12-bay NAS to store all my media, and right now I have 30TB worth of HD space for my music that only has 3TB left; but this also includes tons of jazz and pop (not just classical), and also includes many concerts both on DVD (about 7GB per disc) and blu-ray (between 20-40GB per disc).

I think most people could get away with just a few terabytes of storage if you aren't nutty like I am, but I'd highly recommend investing in something that has an automatic backup. NASes are great (I use/prefer Synology) because you use multiple hard drives and one is "mirrored" on another so that if one fails, all you have to do is replace it without losing any data. Only way to lose anything is in the super-unlikely case that multiple drives fail at the same time, or if there's some natural disaster (or theft, I guess). They're a bit of an investment, but worth it if the thought of losing everything scares the dickens out of you.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2019)

Blancrocher said:


> I'm curious: for those who rip/download their collections, how much storage space do you need? My computer came with 121GB, and I feel that would get eaten up pretty quickly if I were to rip my collection.


I'm still in the process of ripping my classical collection and it is up to about 2 TB. Probably it will top out at 6 TB. I have an external USB drive which is the "master copy." I don't rip directly to the master copy, I rip CDs to an internal hard drive and when I've got a big enough pile of new stuff that it is straining the capacity of the internal drive I copy the lot to the "master copy" and then I copy the master copy to 3 other USB drives that are "mirrors." This way the master copy gets read, which confirms that it is still working.

A NAS with redundancy (RAID) is attractive, but even though the redundancy will protect you from an individual disc failure, what if the RAID controller itself fails and zaps the discs, or gets damaged by fire or flood? Best to have something at a different location.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Caution: external drives can fail - it's a good investment to get two and have a spare back-up.


I have two 1TB drives that my stuff is backed up to but I'm going to get a new, bigger drive for my birthday and back up on the 2TB. Last year a mate of mine rescued all the files from a few 500GB HDs that died in my great HD crash. I got stuff back I thought was lost forever (including stacks of Brahms symphony cycles). All that stuff needs moving over to a new drive and then backing up. I'll sort it in December. I have too many drives and not enough time to sort them.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Simon Moon said:


> CD's. vinyl and hi res downloads.
> 
> Hi res downloads are quickly becoming a larger part of my collection, especially DSD.
> 
> ...


Let me add, that I am so happy that CD's have currently lost favor.

On almost a weekly basis, I visit several brick and mortar record stores in the LA area to purchase classical CD's. Amoeba Music sells them for under $6, and often $4 each. Classical vinyl is usually around the same price. And lucky for me, they have a quite large avant garde and contemporary section.

Also, I have removed ALL my CD's and the artwork from the plastic cases, and put them in plastic bags specifically made for holding CD's (talk about a huge job). I then filed all of them in CD file cases. My entire CD collection (1000's of CD's) now takes up less than a quarter of the space (probably less), and is much more convenient. I can pick up one file (100's of CD's) and move it with ease.

As I said previously, I am buying an increasing amount of DSD downloads. They are a bit pricey, and take up a lot of disc space, but they sound so good.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2019)

Simon Moon said:


> Also, I have removed ALL my CD's and the artwork from the plastic cases, and put them in plastic bags specifically made for holding CD's (talk about a huge job). I then filed all of them in CD file cases. My entire CD collection (1000's of CD's) now takes up less than a quarter of the space (probably less), and is much more convenient. I can pick up one file (100's of CD's) and move it with ease.


When I rip CDs, I also throw away the "jewel case" but I don't bother with a plastic sleeve. I just put the CDs between the pages of the booklets and pile them into plastic storage boxes. I never listen to them after that, they are just tucked away to be re-ripped in the event of a catastrophic data loss event. (That's just psychological protection, I won't live long enough to re-rip them.)


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

I really don't have a specific format. CDs, LPs, SACDs (hybrid and single layer), Blu rays, MP3 and MP4, Music Tapes, YT Videos in External Drives, USB sticks, everything. Music is something enorme to be limited in one format. Jazz from CDs? Never! Cold, soulless sound. LP with closed eyes. Ambient/electronic music from LPs? Only MP4. Ballet? Blu-ray without second thought!


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

99.9% CD ripped to wav files
Now I'm at ~500GB (40GB of it are flac files ripped earlier. I moved to wav files, as storage has become so cheap these days)


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

Simon Moon said:


> Let me add, that I am so happy that CD's have currently lost favor.
> 
> On almost a weekly basis, I visit several brick and mortar record stores in the LA area to purchase classical CD's. Amoeba Music sells them for under $6, and often $4 each. Classical vinyl is usually around the same price. And lucky for me, they have a quite large avant garde and contemporary section.
> 
> ...


As classical records are becoming a niche within a niche, CD price in my region is actually ~50% higher than what I can find on the internet. I still buy some from time to time to support the local shops.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Baron Scarpia said:


> ...
> 
> A NAS with redundancy (RAID) is attractive, but even though the redundancy will protect you from an individual disc failure, what if the RAID controller itself fails and zaps the discs, or gets damaged by fire or flood? Best to have something at a different location.


Couldn't agree more. I've seen it several times when a RAID card went banana fruitcake, it happily "took out" all the harddisks with it. RAID is honestly a single point of failure, no matter what the vendors have been telling the consumers. It really is best to maintain backups on multiple independent NASes/PCs. Keeping an old copy off-site is even better!


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Simon Moon said:


> Let me add, that I am so happy that CD's have currently lost favor.
> 
> On almost a weekly basis, I visit several brick and mortar record stores in the LA area to purchase classical CD's. Amoeba Music sells them for under $6, and often $4 each. Classical vinyl is usually around the same price. And lucky for me, they have a quite large avant garde and contemporary section.
> 
> ...


As I mentioned, while I have ripped all my discs, I keep them in storage. I keep box sets because that's generally an efficient method of storage, but I get rid of plastic cases and keep those discs in 100 disc binders. I added two fields to my JRiver database, binder# and sleeve#, so I can find the discs quickly. Alas, when transferring my music to a new computer, I discovered the hard way that these extra fields don't become part of the file metadata; they reside within JRiver. I had to redo the process once and now make sure to clone JRiver when moving my music library to a new computer.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Dimace said:


> I really don't have a specific format. CDs, LPs, SACDs (hybrid and single layer), Blu rays, MP3 and MP4, Music Tapes, YT Videos in External Drives, USB sticks, everything. Music is something enorme to be limited in one format. *Jazz from CDs? Never! Cold, soulless sound. *LP with closed eyes. Ambient/electronic music from LPs? Only MP4. Ballet? Blu-ray without second thought!


I think you mean "accurate sound." LPs are just CDs with distortion due to the flaws in the medium. Some people like these flaws, but CDs (at least well-mastered ones) are much higher-fidelity and closer to what musicians/producers hear in the studio.


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## DBLee (Jan 8, 2018)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> I think you mean "accurate sound." LPs are just CDs with distortion due to the flaws in the medium. Some people like these flaws, but CDs (*at least well-mastered ones*) are much higher-fidelity and closer to what musicians/producers hear in the studio.


That tends to be the rub, especially with older recordings. And analog mastered recordings tend to reproduce better on an analog medium. But these are all generalities--some recordings sound better on vinyl, some on CD, and it's not always clear why.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2019)

DBLee said:


> That tends to be the rub, especially with older recordings. And analog mastered recordings tend to reproduce better on an analog medium. But these are all generalities--some recordings sound better on vinyl, some on CD, and it's not always clear why.


When you think about it, a digitally remastered recording is nothing more than a digital recording of an analog playback. If the analog recording is anything other than state of the art and the digital recorder is not a complete piece of junk, the digital recording will be able to reproduce all of the subtle distortions present in the analog playback. This was my experience, back in the day when I was doing transfers of my old LP's using a DAT recorder and later a CD-A recorder. When I played back my digital copy that warm analog aura was still there.

I think the problem comes when the remaster producers have the impulse to "fix" the recording, removing pops, putting it though noise suppression software, "fixing" equalization, etc. If they would just make a digital recording of a needle-drop of an LP and be done with it, there would be no problem.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

DBLee said:


> That tends to be the rub, especially with older recordings. And analog mastered recordings tend to reproduce better on an analog medium. But these are all generalities--some recordings sound better on vinyl, some on CD, and it's not always clear why.


Nah, analog masters transfer perfectly to digital via Nyquist's Theorem, and then can be played back nearly perfectly (all the flaws are outside the realm of human hearing) without any of the inherent flaws of vinyl. The only problem with digital mastering has nothing do with it being digital and everything to do with companies marketing to people who think "louder = better" and destroying dynamics to increase the loudness. Unfortunately, most modern vinyls are made from digital masters anyway and thus aren't any better. In both cases, if you can get older vinyl it might sound better, but if you can get older CDs (between the late 80s and early 90s is the sweet spot) they're usually better still.

It's rather ironic that we finally got a high-fidelity medium capable of near perfect playback and then we proceed the spend the last 25 years ruining it because people couldn't be bothered with buying decent amps, not to mention all the music that's been released over that period that never had any decent masters at all because of this (thankfully, classical and most jazz has remained unaffected).


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Baron Scarpia said:


> When you think about it, a digitally remastered recording is nothing more than a digital recording of an analog playback. If the analog recording is anything other than state of the art and the digital recorder is not a complete piece of junk, the digital recording will be able to reproduce all of the subtle distortions present in the analog playback. This was my experience, back in the day when I was doing transfers of my old LP's using a DAT recorder and later a CD-A recorder. When I played back my digital copy that warm analog aura was still there.
> 
> I think the problem comes when the remaster producers have the impulse to "fix" the recording, removing pops, putting it though noise suppression software, "fixing" equalization, etc. *If they would just make a digital recording of a needle-drop of an LP and be done with it, there would be no problem.*


Steven Wilson has done this with many of his remasters/remixes, including such needle drops as a bonus in addition to his remasters/remix and older masters. Gives listeners the ultimate freedom to choose which they prefer.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Having seen this thread for the first time, after reading through it it appears as those the physical media seems to outweigh streaming services, which is not consistent with the figures cited by OP


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Amazon Music rolls out lossless streaming service:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20869526/amazon-music-hd-lossless-flac-tier-spotify-apple

"Amazon is launching a new tier of its music service, dubbed Amazon Music HD. It offers lossless versions of audio files for streaming or downloading at a price that aggressively undercuts Tidal, the main competition for this kind of audio. Amazon will charge $14.99 a month for the HD tier, or $12.99 if you're an Amazon Prime customer."


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Larkenfield said:


> Amazon Music rolls out lossless streaming service:
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20869526/amazon-music-hd-lossless-flac-tier-spotify-apple
> 
> "Amazon is launching a new tier of its music service, dubbed Amazon Music HD. It offers lossless versions of audio files for streaming or downloading at a price that aggressively undercuts Tidal, the main competition for this kind of audio. Amazon will charge $14.99 a month for the HD tier, or $12.99 if you're an Amazon Prime customer."


It'll be interesting to see if they can offer gapless playback. Their current online player can't do that. That led me to cancel Music Unlimited after the free trial.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I wonder if they'll get into selling these lossless tracks. I almost never buy downloads from Amazon for that reason.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I wonder if they'll get into selling these lossless tracks. I almost never buy downloads from Amazon for that reason.


In my experience, Amazon downloads are fine (if you like 256k VBR). It's their online player that's the problem.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Baron Scarpia said:


> This was my experience, back in the day when I was doing transfers of my old LP's using a DAT recorder and later a CD-A recorder. When I played back my digital copy *that warm analog aura was still there.*


Yes, I had a similar experience, when I digitized my LPs with a CD recorder. Except for the fortunately rare pops some of my digital copies sounded often "better" and particularly warmer than the labels own digital remasterings.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

premont said:


> Except for the fortunately rare pops....


You can often get rid of those with Audacity (a simple freeware programme).


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

KenOC said:


> It'll be interesting to see if they can offer gapless playback. Their current online player can't do that. That led me to cancel Music Unlimited after the free trial.


I've had contradictory experiences with gapless playback on Tidal. Here's something I posted in another forum.

Just tried a pair of tracks (Dixie to Divide) from "Rock of Ages" by The Band. I know this album very well; I think I've played it more than any other album. On my first Win 10 machine (using the Tidal App) I could clearly hear a gap. On the second, a very cheap ASUS with a solid state drive (also using the Tidal App) there was no gap.

In both cases I was listening through Focal Elears plugged directly into the computer.

I can't explain it - just report it.​
For those of you not fans of The Band (shame on you ) there is no musical break between those two tracks. And on the ASUS, I listened several times and could not even hear a minuscule break.

It just occurred to me that it might be the result of different audio drivers.


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