# Crimptor's Classical



## Crimptor (Mar 25, 2012)

Hey Talk Classical,
About 6 months ago I began to get really interested in classical music. So interested, in fact, that I began to compose it myself. So, in this thread I will post all of the classical music I have composed, and update it with things when I compose them in the future. I am also posting only things I have composed in 2012, as everything before was pretty shoddy. I thought it would be a better idea to have one thread for all of my compositions than many for each individual one. 

*Gavotte in A Major*





*Historic Overture in D Minor*





*Piano Concerto 1 in C Major*





The other three movements can be listened to on my YouTube channel, if you are so inclined.

If you're feeling nice today, don't forget to like or dislike my videos. I need input, or else I will not improve!

Thank you in advance, and criticism is welcomed. Remember to make it constructive, too, since I don't want to cry myself to sleep tonight. :lol:

If anyone is wondering what I use to compose, it is Finale 2011, with a few Garritan Instruments. Thanks everyone for reading this thread!

(You may have noticed a similar thread was posted on Facepunch. I'm not spamming, it just seems as though Facepunch was somewhat unresponsive to my request for comment!)


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## chee_zee (Aug 16, 2010)

I fuggin love the gavotte, what the floop have you done with your life that such amazing violin and cello interplay can be interpolated with such ambivalently pleasant yet haunting oboe melodies?! At 1:55 the strings that come in to play the dissonant note sound a little too dissonant to my ears, it seems out of place there. could you show us the pdf score and maybe I could give you a suggestion as to softening that through orchestration? Were you going from some sort of 7th chord there I'm guessing?
I feel as though you could reorchestrate this now, using more than just strings and an oboe. having dissonances between softer timbres helps, so in addition to having one of the violin sections playing the dissonant note you might throw in flutes (a soft timbre) to the note you intend to accent, which I'm guessing would be the root of the chord as accenting the 7th could be worse, you might also just have the second violin play divisi, one half play the root and the other half the 7th, since the 2nd section is already smaller and then combined with divisi this should balance things out. dissonant notes can easily stand out even if just one instrument playing in a bare colorless register is playing it, even just doubling the third of a minor chord with a low flute (a colorless, non-piercing timbre if ever there was one) can throw the whole thing off balance. it just feels too strong and you didn't seem to do it for a specific reason, it's too detracting from the principal voice imo.

love the open harmonies of the d minor overture, reminds me of the 'harmonica' sound from beethoven's dankgesang. the wind melodies are idiomatic and moving as usual. you've just about mastered string writing already, so props for that. you should check out the garritan online edition of rimsky-korsakov's principles of orchestration, it's free and one of the most enlightening resources on orch. I'm curious to know if you had a certain form or structure in mind for the overture, or did you just kinda free form it? either way, it's very moving job well done.

at about 5 minutes in, there are several seconds where the first violins only play a melody and are later doubled by the rest. I feel as though this would be more of a job for a solo woodwind, as at that point it's a timbre you haven't heard in a while, and a solo instrument would be much more effective at expressiveness here, it would be really moving compared to the overused first violins section, or even a solo violin. this movement is largely lacking in brass, something I feel would add to the epicness if not overused. the solo timpani hits at about 6:45 just beg for some low brass marcato to either double it or play in say 6ths, a bass trombone a 6th above and a tuba at the unison, with both tenor trombones an octave above this, all in ff would make for a driving and progressive momentum of hurrah. just make sure to leave these guys in the background or tacet for a good while before that part so as no to reduce the surprising effect of novelty of timbre.

you could easily have the tuba play along with the timpani at 1:20 or so, and switch between the tuba doing that and the bass trombone each time that motif occurs. the rest of your orchestra will be bigger so you wouldn't have to worry about balance here if you don't mark the brass too high, plus we'd just be using either one or the other at a time while the other is tacet. you might have a couple of the french horns doubling the strings. the choir kicks in shortly after that, I don't want to ruin that entrance, so when the melody suddenly pulls higher and higher at 1:38 you could have the other 2 horns chime in. the oboe solo I feel would be more effectively accompanied by the violas rather than violins for that complentary nasal tone. you might divisi them, half of the violas playing the oboe down an octave (maybe unison you will just have to try it) and the other half playing the chordal passages you've currently got in the violins.

when the choirs kick in, I'm not sure what you have the cellos doing, I think maybe some sort of arpeggio figure, but you could have the contrabass playing some marcato notes along with the bass voices. have staccato oboe hits doubling the upper choir voices. at 3:20, since we would perhaps get a bit bass heavy with contrabass marcatoing along with the bass vox, you might have a french horn double the violins, and slowly do an orchestrated crescendo by having the other horns chime in one by one. I also love the echo effect of different string section around 3:45, very cool.


I'll leave suggestions at that, hopefully that will show a few of the things you could be doing to make a good work into a great one, just give it time and hard work and voila, as it seems you have a knack for this type of thing. this is meant to be a compliment, but the historic overture sounds like I'm playing an epic SNES rpg.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I strong effort, overall. I would rethink the name of that 'piano concerto'. Only thing.


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## Crimptor (Mar 25, 2012)

chee_zee said:


> *Paragraph 1: I fuggin love the gavotte, what the floop have you done with your life that such amazing violin and cello interplay can be interpolated with such ambivalently pleasant yet haunting oboe melodies?! At 1:55 the strings that come in to play the dissonant note sound a little too dissonant to my ears, it seems out of place there. could you show us the pdf score and maybe I could give you a suggestion as to softening that through orchestration? Were you going from some sort of 7th chord there I'm guessing?*
> *Paragraph 2: I feel as though you could reorchestrate this now, using more than just strings and an oboe. having dissonances between softer timbres helps, so in addition to having one of the violin sections playing the dissonant note you might throw in flutes (a soft timbre) to the note you intend to accent, which I'm guessing would be the root of the chord as accenting the 7th could be worse, you might also just have the second violin play divisi, one half play the root and the other half the 7th, since the 2nd section is already smaller and then combined with divisi this should balance things out. dissonant notes can easily stand out even if just one instrument playing in a bare colorless register is playing it, even just doubling the third of a minor chord with a low flute (a colorless, non-piercing timbre if ever there was one) can throw the whole thing off balance. it just feels too strong and you didn't seem to do it for a specific reason, it's too detracting from the principal voice imo.*
> 
> *Paragraph 3: love the open harmonies of the d minor overture, reminds me of the 'harmonica' sound from beethoven's dankgesang. the wind melodies are idiomatic and moving as usual. you've just about mastered string writing already, so props for that. you should check out the garritan online edition of rimsky-korsakov's principles of orchestration, it's free and one of the most enlightening resources on orch. I'm curious to know if you had a certain form or structure in mind for the overture, or did you just kinda free form it? either way, it's very moving job well done.
> ...


Thanks so much for your comments! I'll number each paragraph and address them all individually.

Paragraph 1: Yeah, I agree with you on that. The sound definitely clashes.

Paragraph 2: Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.  I'm only 13 and never had any formal music training, save for my violin lessons. My violin teacher did recommend that I attend music theory and harmony classes, but I don't have enough money to. Are there any resources you could recommend for me to learn music theory and/or harmony? That would be excellent.

Paragraph 3: I can understand most of this. Thank you for these compliments, I didn't know I had almost mastered writing for strings, haha. As well, And yes, it was free-form. In fact, what I'm trying to do with my compositions is to have the quality of 17th, 18th, and 19th century compositions without some of the needless rules that restrict. I'm very glad you found it moving. 

Paragraph 4: Again, thank you for your time. I will definitely take your considerations into account when I write future pieces, as I have no intention of continuing my effort on these current ones. Thanks again!


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## Crimptor (Mar 25, 2012)

kv466 said:


> I strong effort, overall. I would rethink the name of that 'piano concerto'. Only thing.


Yeah, I quickly named it that without much consideration for the subject matter of the piece. I'm thinking of renaming it "sperimantale", which means experimental in Italian. Thanks for listening!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

"My violin teacher did recommend that I attend music theory and harmony classes, but I don't have enough money to."

Your violin teacher can also teach you fundamental theory, just ask. It will cut into the playing time of the lesson, but it is invaluable to have both, as a player, let alone if you wish to keep composing.

P.s. Never name a piece by a form unless you are certain you know it is in that form, or directly somehow related / connected to that form. Even a 'deconstructed' concerto is playing off the idea of the form, and you need deep familiarity with the form if you are going to deconstruct it


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## chee_zee (Aug 16, 2010)

other than downloading pdfs of books there are some good free books on harmony, counterpoint, and orch by alan belkin, as well as form and the general techniques behind being a composer, that's probably your best free and legal resource in addition to the garritan manual already listed.

read in this order:
letter to a young composer
harmony
counterpoint
orch
form

I also recommend getting 'classical form' by william caplin as it covers beethoven mozart and haydn (sonatas, theme and variations, minuet/trio, scherzo, rondo, concerto etc) so that may be of interest. if you are only 13, then that's even better than I thought, as you really truly have a nack for music. these next few years are gonna be about the artisanship, learning the craft. think of it like a swordsmith apprentice, you do not belt out the most amazing weapon ever just based on your emotional guidance, the true masters have a nack for the emotional side while making sure to keep up to par with the technical craft side of things to allow the most efficient and amazing use of their skills and talents. that involves a lot of listening to the master, following by the rules, getting comfortable with their formulaicness til you can do that without too much thought, and then forgetting all of it and let your soul guide you, but that's something that takes years for any occupation. composing in the modern day is both a job/career and an art form.

for instance, while you've basically mastered string writing in terms of basic cliches and getting that 'lush' sound as well as stereotypical accompaniments (which you've no doubt picked up through listening, the single greatest and most efficient way to learn music by far, just get some questions you want answered and specifically listen for the answers).......would you be able to write a half hour long solo piece for each of the 4 string instruments, using extended techniques unique to each, and fingerings/multistops/ultra wide stretches idiomatic to each? things like this take more than just listening to music, and is what is meant by artisanship and craft.

if you want, I'm an active member at piano files, and have many rare scores on many subjects, and in many genres, gigs worth. if you ever need some study scores (whether it's contemporary opera, film, video game, or even pop music and rare orch manuals) I have a lot.


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