# Vivaldi



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

His music seems to be top notch for the Baroque Era. Exciting melodies, and perhaps more diversity from piece to piece than his peer JS Bach. Is there anyone who can shed some light on that assertion? I'm listening to one of his Mandolin Concertos, and it's fantastic!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Captainnumber36 said:


> His music seems to be top notch for the Baroque Era. Exciting melodies, and perhaps *more diversity from piece to piece than his peer JS Bach.* Is there anyone who can shed some light on that assertion? I'm listening to one of his Mandolin Concertos, and it's fantastic!


Without denigrating Vivaldi your statement highlighted seems incredible to me in the light of the fact that Bach could write the St Matthew Passion, The Brandenburgs and the Art of Fugue. Seems plenty of diversity there.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Without denigrating Vivaldi your statement highlighted seems incredible to me in the light of the fact that Bach could write the St Matthew Passion, The Brandenburgs and the Art of Fugue. Seems plenty of diversity there.


I do love the B Minor Mass and St Matthews Passion, I don't know there just seems to be something about Vivaldi that's doing it for me, it doesn't feel like I'm hearing the same piece over and over again...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm just going to turn this into a Vivaldi love thread: Post your favorite Youtube videos:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Bach is my #1 composer of all times, Vivaldi is my 2nd favourite in the baroque period, way behind Bach, but clearly ahead of any other baroque composer.

Less famous, but personal favourites:

Cello concertos.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ugo Orlandi, Dorina Frati; Claudio Scimone: I Solisti Veneti

Talking about top notch.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DavidA said:


> Without denigrating Vivaldi your statement highlighted seems incredible to me in the light of the fact that Bach could write the St Matthew Passion, The Brandenburgs and the Art of Fugue. Seems plenty of diversity there.


Not to mention the solo keyboard music, organ music (which I distinguish from keyboard music primarily because I don't especially like the organ), music for solo violin and cello (and maybe lute), 200+ cantatas, which demonstrate nearly infinite variety . . . I could go on.

All the examples of Vivaldi music on this thread so far are concertos. Vivaldi certainly wrote many, many more of those than Bach, and he used a wider variety of solo instruments. If one focuses solely on concertos an argument could be made for Vivaldi, but not if one looks at the entire output of each composer.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Vivaldi is a fine composer - and beloved by all bassoonists!! how can you not love a composer who wrote 38 bassoon concerti!!
further...each piece is unique, challenging and enjoyable....and....no he did not write the same concerto 38 times!!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I do love the B Minor Mass and St Matthews Passion, I don't know there just seems to be something about Vivaldi that's doing it for me, it doesn't feel like I'm hearing the same piece over and over again...


Bach is way more diverse than Vivaldi, who was accused of writing the same concerto 500 times? I like Vivaldi's arrangments for various instruments though, especially his Guitar Concerto, and can listen to it even if it is the same concerto written 1,000,000 times.

With some exceptions by Bach, I've always liked Telemann and Clementi over him when I was learning their pieces. Scarlatti and CPE Bach are up their as well.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> His music seems to be top notch for the Baroque Era. Exciting melodies, and perhaps *more diversity from piece to piece than his peer JS Bach*. Is there anyone who can shed some light on that assertion? I'm listening to one of his Mandolin Concertos, and it's fantastic!


 fifteen characters


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## Boston Charlie (Dec 6, 2017)

While I consider Bach to be practically in a class by himself; one that transcends his time and space; Vivaldi can't be faulted for being a very, very fine composer. I'm a big fan of the "Four Seasons", the guitar concerto with the famous slow movement, and the concerto for diverse instruments. There's a also a wonderful concerto for trumpet featuring a soprano that I found on a NAXOS collection of "Baroque Trumpet Concertos" and a sizzling concerto for three violins that I know via a recording that features Stern, Perlman and Zukerman in top form as if one thinks that their violins will catch fire at any moment during the finale.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Ugo Orlandi, Dorina Frati; Claudio Scimone: I Solisti Veneti
> 
> Talking about top notch.


That's what I was listening to last night!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This is great:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Antonio Vivaldi, Gloria rv 589 parte 1/5

Teresa Berganza: Mezzo-soprano
Lucia Valentini-Terrani: Contralto


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Antonio Vivaldi, Gloria rv 589 parte 1/5
> 
> Teresa Berganza: Mezzo-soprano
> Lucia Valentini-Terrani: Contralto


Fantastic!   Amazing!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Antonio Vivaldi "Stabat Mater" Marta Benackova


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Vivaldi is an admirable composer, but his music is not more varied than Bach's or Handel's.

Why does Handel get so little mention? His operas, oratorios, assorted choral works, concerti grossi, organ concertos, violin sonatas, harpsichord music... Extraordinary creativity.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Vivaldi is an admirable composer, but his music is not more varied than Bach's or Handel's.
> 
> Why does Handel get so little mention? His operas, oratorios, assorted choral works, concerti grossi, organ concertos, violin sonatas, harpsichord music... Extraordinary creativity.


You can start a thread about anyone you want, I assume you know that so what's keeping you.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Beethoven thought the world of Handel. He seemed to place him above Bach, whom he greatly admired as well. One of his final gifts was the collected works of Handel that he had requested.

The other final gift, of course, was a case of fine wine, perhaps giving a hint of his value system.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

*Vivaldi (born Venice, 4 March 1678; died Vienna, 28 July 1741)*



(born Venice, 4 March 1678; died Vienna, 28 July 1741)

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Vivaldi


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Vivaldi fares well against J.S. Bach and Handel; he had similarities and differences to both. Like Bach he wrote magnificent sacred choral music. Like Handel he wrote Italian opera. He outdid both in quantity and quality of concertos; he wrote more concertos than anyone who ever lived, many of them masterpieces. 

I agree he isn't as varied in mood as Bach, nor did he write the quality of keyboard music. But J.S. Bach's peers only include Mozart and Beethoven so it is little slant against the Red Priest. Take away Messiah and Vivaldi is probably Handel's equal as well.

In my survey J.S. Bach came in No. 3, Handel No. 7 and Vivaldi No. 24. I think that fairly describes their places in the CM universe.

If you don't know this music from Vivaldi it is worth pursuing:

Dixit Dominus RV 594
Gloria
Domine ad adjuvandum me RV 593
"La Notte" concerto either for flute and strings RV 439 or flute, bassoon and strings P. 342
"Il Gardellino" and "La Tempesta di Mare" flute concertos RV 439 & 433
"La Caccia" violin concerto Op.8 No. 10 RV 362
"Alla Rustica" violin concerto RV 151
Concerto Grosso for 2 Violins in A minor Op. 3 No. 8 RV 552
Concerto in G for 2 Cellos RV 531
Concerto in B flat major for Violin and Cello RV 547
Concerto in A major for Violin and Cello RV 546
Concerto Gross in D RV 562a/P. 444 the latter better under Marriner if you can find it


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Vivaldi is an admirable composer, but his music is not more varied than Bach's or Handel's.
> 
> Why does Handel get so little mention? His operas, oratorios, assorted choral works, concerti grossi, organ concertos, violin sonatas, harpsichord music... Extraordinary creativity.


Handel was the Mozart of his time. Excelled at everything he touched.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

chu42 said:


> Handel was the Mozart of his time. Excelled at everything he touched.


Water Music is overrated . . . .


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

pianozach said:


> Water Music is overrated . . . .


Yes, while the 12 Concerti Grossi are hardly talked about. They are probably my favorite works from the Baroque besides Bach.

As for Vivaldi, I like his sacred works a lot. His Gloria is a wonderful pick-me-up piece. A lot of his music doesn't do anything for me though it sounds pleasant. And yes, I admit to liking the Four Seasons, even though the rest of the concerti in that opus are the equal of the four.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Water Music is overrated . . . .


Just like Eine Klein Nachtmusik is overrated. If these are the only pieces you know by Handel/Mozart then you can't really consider yourself a classical music fan at all. What's your point?

And about Vivaldi, he's a superb composer and in the league with Telemann and Domenico Scarlatti; similarly underrated Baroque composers often unfairly dismissed for being quantity over quality when in fact they had both quantity _and_ quality.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> His music seems to be top notch for the Baroque Era. Exciting melodies, and perhaps more diversity from piece to piece than his peer JS Bach. Is there anyone who can shed some light on that assertion? I'm listening to one of his Mandolin Concertos, and it's fantastic!





Woodduck said:


> Vivaldi is an admirable composer, but his music is not more varied than Bach's or Handel's.
> 
> Why does Handel get so little mention? His operas, oratorios, assorted choral works, concerti grossi, organ concertos, violin sonatas, harpsichord music... Extraordinary creativity.


I heartily concur with the opinion that Vivaldi's music "is _not_ more varied than Bach's or Handel's." I also concur with opinions that rank Vivaldi among the greats. He certainly didn't write the same concerto hundreds of times, but he does have a recognizable sound that filters through nearly every piece he wrote, making him, in my opinion, more readily identifiable by way of a short phrase of music than either Bach or Handel. And this is not a bad thing, or a weakness. All the greatest composers have their own identifiable sound; Vivaldi's is simply unique and perhaps more homogenous overall than many others. I have quite a bit of the man's music in my collection, including a couple dozen versions of the _Four Seasons_ concerti, and the big Brilliant Classics box set (_Vivaldi: The Masterworks_) which samples quite a range of the Red Priest's music over 40 CDs. It's a treasure.

But Bach, especially Bach, is much more diverse. I still am amazed after years of listening to Bach's music that the same man who composed the Brandenburgs also wrote those stunning (and varied) Cantatas, the great Passions, the solo works for violin and cello, the organ and harpsichord masterpieces. Bach, too, has a recognizable sound, but it is one that is marked by its unique sense of profundity rather than by way of its particular "sound", if that makes any sense. (In other words, Bach's music to me sounds so impossibly "moving" that I tend to be able to recognize an unfamiliar Bach piece -- which is becoming more and more rare for me after a lifetime of listening to this music -- rather quickly simply because it so touches my soul in a way that no other music achieves.)

I admit to less familiarity with Handel, but I recognize that Handel is not so homogenous in sound-style as Vivaldi. There is a certain richness of texture through the Handel oeuvre which makes his solo keyboard music much different in several ways than the orchestral pieces or the vocal works. There is a world of variety in all of those operas, but we tend to know Handel by a mere few pieces, notably _Messiah_ and the _Water Music_ and a handful of other often played works. It's rather a shame that of major composers Handel seems to get the least exposure for his vast number of works than do others. So much of Bach remains familiar to the repertoire. Even Vivaldi, anchored perhaps in the four concerti of the _Four Seasons_, is well represented in the concert hall and on radio play by dozens of those ("same sounding" -- forgive me!) concertos. I wish his vocal music was better known; it tends to dispute that "familiar Vivaldi sound" perhaps moreso than any of the orchestral music.

But though I love Vivaldi and have likely heard every one of the violin concerti, the bassoon concerti, the flute concerti, etc. etc. etc., I cannot defend the comment that opens this thread. I will defend it vehemently with Bach. I will stand beside the Handel supporters and offer my limited-knowledge agreement. But when it comes to Vivaldi, I will continue to listen to his music, to enjoy it immensely, and to relish the notion that when I hear a snippet of a Vivaldi piece out of the blue, as they say, I can heartily proclaim "Hey! That's Vivaldi!" with nary a doubt in my mind. But in no way with Vivaldi is there "more diversity from piece to piece than his peer JS Bach." Just no way.

Added as an addenda: I refer to having quite a few versions of _Four Seasons_ in my collection. This is true. For years I've collected different versions of these pieces and of the Bach Brandenburg Concerti. Some years back I actually stopped adding to my _Four Seasons_ discs because I did not find there was much difference in the production sound of one version to another, in a general sense. I cannot say that of the Bach concerti, which I still enjoy adding to my collection and listening to to hear what is done differently in terms of sound and emphasis (especially those brassy horns!). Some of this has to do with the fact that the Vivaldi is written for strings, which allow for less variation of sound, while the Bach pieces feature a variety of instruments and great meter/style contrasts from movement to movement. But the variety from one _Brandenburg_ to the next compared to that from one Vivaldi violin concerto to the next is simply much more evident with the Bach than the Vivaldi.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

larold said:


> Vivaldi fares well against J.S. Bach and Handel; he had similarities and differences to both. Like Bach he wrote magnificent sacred choral music. Like Handel he wrote Italian opera. He outdid both in quantity and quality of concertos; he wrote more concertos than anyone who ever lived, many of them masterpieces.
> 
> I agree he isn't as varied in mood as Bach, nor did he write the quality of keyboard music. But J.S. Bach's peers only include Mozart and Beethoven so it is little slant against the Red Priest. Take away Messiah and Vivaldi is probably Handel's equal as well.
> 
> ...


Over the years I have collected many Vivaldi. Recently found three cd set of Vivaldi by Israel Chamber Orchestra, Shlomo Mintz-conductor violinist. Have found others on Denon labels. What I like about these more rare finds are more subtle differences in playing Vivaldi. Vivaldi though can be a composer that certain works can only be heard one way one time and that is it for me. I may hear other versions but cannot get my favorite one out of my mind. Not so with Bach or Handel.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I'm with those that place Vivaldi as their second favorite baroque composer; I much prefer him over Handel, Telemann or Scarlatti. For me, the man was a genius.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

One of Vivaldi's more beautiful creations wonderfully fulfilled ...


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2020)

I think the romantic period started in the music of the vivaldi


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