# Haendel inspired by Marin Marais



## Jitto (Jun 16, 2013)

I knew for long time folie d'Espagne from Marin Marais, Then I discover the sarabande from Haendle. There is no doubt for me that there is a resemblance with those two. Since I think folie d'Espagne was written first, can we say that Haendle was inspired by Marais?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Jitto said:


> I knew for long time folie d'Espagne from Marin Marais, Then I discover the sarabande from Haendle. There is no doubt for me that there is a resemblance with those two. Since I think folie d'Espagne was written first, can we say that Haendle was inspired by Marais?


Why the affectation of spelling the name this way ? It would be Haendel in any case.
He became a naturalised British citizen in 1727 and from then on spelled his name George Frederic Handel.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I've heard that on Facebook, Haendle was his handle.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

KenOC said:


> I've heard that on Facebook, Haendle was his handle.


Well look it up,that's the thing to do--but I think this is another of your famous attempts at humour.
Please include some instructions e.g. "Get ready to giggle !".


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The Follies d´Espagne/La Folia melody had been widely known in the whole of Europe since the Renaissance - and was used by Lully, Corelli, Marais, Vivaldi, Scarlatti, Geminiani, among others ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folia) ... so Marais isn´t necessarily the source.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

moody said:


> Well look it up,that's the thing to do--but I think this is another of your famous attempts at humour.
> Please include some instructions e.g. "Get ready to giggle !".




In the US at least, the two spellings would be pronounced exactly the same way. I'm not sure it qualifies as a joke, because even a smile is an optional response. Probably a 'quip', of the 'throw away' sort.

[If it were a joke, I would be guilty of killing it by explaining it; fortunately... .]


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> In the US at least, the two spellings would be pronounced exactly the same way. I'm not sure it qualifies as a joke, because even a smile is an optional response. Probably a 'quip', of the 'throw away' sort.
> 
> [If it were a joke, I would be guilty of killing it by explaining it; fortunately... .]


Yes,if it was spelled Handel but trust me he thinks it is amusing.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I have read there was very little stigma associated with borrowing themes and even entire arrangements during the baroque. Everyone borrowed from everyone else, and Handel famously borrowed from himself a lot.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Weston said:


> and Handel famously borrowed from himself a lot.


it's the safest thing, the self seldom complains about it... on the contrary, it enjoys the pat on the back


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_with_the_theme_%22La_Folia%22


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Weston said:


> I have read there was very little stigma associated with borrowing themes and even entire arrangements during the baroque. Everyone borrowed from everyone else, and Handel famously borrowed from himself a lot.


And even beyond the Baroque: Haydn's Fifth Baryton Trio's first movement is "Che Faro Senza Euridice", etc. 

Cherubini uses "Folies d'Espagne" in the first act dance movement [the only one in the first act] in his opera "Les Abencerages". It was quite a famous tune.


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## Jitto (Jun 16, 2013)

Spelling is from there, no intent to joke

http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich_Haendel


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

moody said:


> He became a naturalised British citizen in 1727 and from then on spelled his name George Frederic Handel.


"Frideric", actually.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

moody said:


> Why the affectation of spelling the name this way ?


As a long time resident of Berlin, I can confirm that this is the normal method of writing a German "ä" in English (i.e. "ae") which sounds more like more like Hendel - but not quite. It's a language thang. No big mystery... just saying.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Weston said:


> I have read there was very little stigma associated with borrowing themes and even entire arrangements during the baroque. Everyone borrowed from everyone else, and Handel famously borrowed from himself a lot.


As in recycling his own works for maybe at least one-fourth of the Messiah


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KRoad said:


> As a long time resident of Berlin, I can confirm that this is the normal method of writing a German "ä" in English (i.e. "ae") which sounds more like more like Hendel - but not quite. It's a language thang. No big mystery... just saying.


Like Arnold *Schönberg* becoming Arnold *Schoenberg* -- because The British and Americans are infamously non-accommodating about names from other languages. If Arnie had immigrated to the U.S.A. as late as the 1920's, and didn't speak English, he might have ended up Arnold Beautifulmountain or Prettyhill -- if he was lucky.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Like Arnold *Schönberg* becoming Arnold *Schoenberg* -- because The British and Americans are infamously non-accommodating about names from other languages. If Arnie had immigrated to the U.S.A. as late as the 1920's, and didn't speak English, he might have ended up Arnold Beautifulmountain or Prettyhill -- if he was lucky.


Schönberg became Schoenberg mostly because there is no umlaut on a US typewriter. The 'oe' version doesn't give a better clue for pronunciation - that being the reason for most anglicizing of non-English names since Ellis Island Imports closed.


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