# Associated Press - Multiple women say opera star Domingo sexually harassed them



## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

http://www.apnews.com/c2d51d690d004992b8cfba3bad827ae9


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There's already a thread on this in the opera forum:

Placido Domingo accused of sexual harassment


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

now they will character assassinate him, just like Kevin Spacey. Banned from all opera houses, shun from former "friends". Maybe he will end up in suicide like the husband of Anne Sofie von Otter


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There's already a thread on this in the opera forum:

Placido Domingo accused of sexual harassment


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> There's already a thread on this in the opera forum:
> 
> Placido Domingo accused of sexual harassment


Sorry. Divert conversation there I guess. I could swear I skimmed and didn't see anything there


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Sadly this isn't the first time this has happened. Remember Maria?


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## samm (Jul 4, 2011)

Jacck said:


> now they will character assassinate him, just like Kevin Spacey. Banned from all opera houses, shun from former "friends". Maybe he will end up in suicide like the husband of Anne Sofie von Otter


The same Kevin Spacey who has only been tried for one of the several allegations against him? The same one who said he was 'seeking treatment for his behavior', then uploaded a weird video? I think Kevin Spacey's assassin is also called, by sheer coincidence, Kevin Spacey.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

samm said:


> The same Kevin Spacey who has only been tried for one of the several allegations against him? The same one who said he was 'seeking treatment for his behavior', then uploaded a weird video? I think Kevin Spacey's assassin is also called, by sheer coincidence, Kevin Spacey.


"In an interview with Buzzfeed News, actor Anthony Rapp claims Spacey made a sexual advance towards him when Rapp was 14. Rapp, now 46, claims Spacey laid on top of him at a party at the actor's apartment in 1986 and alleges the star "was trying to seduce" him."

yeah, that is really a huge transgression. In civilized countries Rapp would be laughed off that he is making absurd claims about things that happened 30 years ago on some party where everyone was drunk.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Jacck said:


> "In an interview with Buzzfeed News, actor Anthony Rapp claims Spacey made a sexual advance towards him when Rapp was 14. Rapp, now 46, claims Spacey laid on top of him at a party at the actor's apartment in 1986 and alleges the star "was trying to seduce" him."
> 
> yeah, that is really a huge transgression. In civilized countries Rapp would be laughed off that he is making absurd claims about things that happened 30 years ago on some party where everyone was drunk.


I will not go into details (partly because I know so few), but I heard a story from a well-known theatre person about how Spacey went after his son. I heard this story in the mid/late 90's.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> I will not go into details (partly because I know so few), but I heard a story from a well-known theatre person about how Spacey went after his son. I heard this story in the mid/late 90's.


I do not know the details and do not particularly care for Spacey (and care for Domingo even less). Maybe he was bad. I am however principially against such smear accusations about things that allegedly happened 30 years ago. And what I find particularly distusting is the reaction of all those movie producers etc.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41884878


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Jacck said:


> I do not know the details and do not particularly care for Spacey (and care for Domingo even less). Maybe he was bad.* I am however principially against such smear accusations about things that allegedly happened 30 years ago*. And what I find particularly distusting is the reaction of all those movie producers etc.
> https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41884878


you would soon change your tune if you were one of the victims

time is irrelevant to the need for justice if you are a victim. we still go after nazi war criminals 80 years later


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

stomanek said:


> you would soon change your tune if you were one of the victims
> 
> time is irrelevant to the need for justice if you are a victim. we still go after nazi war criminals 80 years later


nowadays everyone seems to be a victim, or to be triggered and offended by everything. This huge trauma that Spacey allegedly caused Rapp had obviously no big impact on his life, since he became an actor and singer. It is really curious to compare such minor incident as trying to kiss someone on a party with war crimes from the Holocaust.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Jacck said:


> *nowadays everyone seems to be a victim, or to be triggered and offended by everything. *This huge trauma that Spacey allegedly caused Rapp had obviously no big impact on his life, since he became an actor and singer. It is really curious to compare such minor incident as trying to kiss someone on a party with war crimes from the Holocaust.


No they dont.

As usual you a trivialising traumatic experiences that happen to other people.

Maybe you should stop generalising and see another perspective.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

this is almost like some Stalinist show trials, or even better, like the Process from Kafka
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kevin-spacey-sexual-battery-accuser-142303417.html
so someone accuses him of sexual harassment. Spacey does not even know who that is. A trial is held against him. Everyone can watch the trial, everyone knows Spaceys name, but the accuser can stay anonymous.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

stomanek said:


> No they dont.
> 
> As usual you a trivialising traumatic experiences that happen to other people.
> 
> Maybe you should stop generalising and see another perspective.


rape, physical assault, robbery, car incidents, war indicents. There are actual traumas that cause actual PTSD. Not these minor incidents where whiners and histrionic personality disorders think that they have been traumatized.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Jacck said:


> rape, physical assault, robbery, car incidents, war indicents. There are actual traumas that cause actual PTSD. Not these minor incidents where whiners and histrionic personality disorders think that they have been traumatized.


People are definitely more delicate today. In my country, some college campuses have "safe rooms" where students threatened by opinions different from their own can retreat and soothe themselves with cuddly toys. I'm not making this up, BTW...

NOTE: I am not equating such trivialities with sexual harassment, especially if practiced by a man with a potentially strong influence on a woman's future career. That's simply a form of extortion.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Mods. Could this thread be moved somewhere else. Kevin Spacey has nothing to do with classical listening. Thank you.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Jacck said:


> rape, physical assault, robbery, car incidents, war indicents. There are actual traumas that cause actual PTSD. *Not these minor incidents where whiners and histrionic personality disorders think that they have been traumatized.*


Whether people who allege they have been abused have been truly traumatised - is something you cannot possibly know.

What seems to you as an observer like a minor incident - can affect some victims very deeply.

so best not make foolish statements about these things.


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## samm (Jul 4, 2011)

Jacck said:


> rape, physical assault, robbery, car incidents, war indicents. There are actual traumas that cause actual PTSD. Not these minor incidents where whiners and histrionic personality disorders think that they have been traumatized.


Yeah yeah. It's all 'whiners' and opportunists. I remember the same being said about Bill Cosby, that guy now doing time. Your views are sadly retrograde and shallow. From the school of: 'I'd smack that guy in the mouth if he tried it on me' and anyone who doesn't or can't and only reports things years later, is a 'whiner'. Take a hike fella.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

samm said:


> Yeah yeah. It's all 'whiners' and opportunists. I remember the same being said about Bill Cosby, that guy now doing time. Your views are sadly retrograde and shallow. From the school of: 'I'd smack that guy in the mouth if he tried it on me' and anyone who doesn't or can't and only reports things years later, is a 'whiner'. Take a hike fella.


Well you put it much better than I could have done.

Hopefully he will quit with his misogyny.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

stomanek said:


> Whether people who allege they have been abused have been truly traumatised - is something you cannot possibly know.
> 
> What seems to you as an observer like a minor incident - can affect some victims very deeply.
> 
> so best not make foolish statements about these things.


I know these things are not black and white. But from a purely rational perspective. If you have some famous person, and someone comes 30 years later with an accusation, that that person has tried to kiss him on some party, it is ridiculous. I do not believe for a single instant, that it is about justice. It is about money, or trying to get 5 minutes of fame for the accuser, or using it in a political fight etc. And even if it were about justice, it should not be done in such a public, character assassinating way, where the accuser does not need to provide any solid evidence, and the accused has no way of defending himself. Innocent until proven guilty used to be the golden principle of justice. Now someone says you harrassed him 30 years ago, and they fire you from your job, and delete you from movies you have made.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

KenOC said:


> People are definitely more delicate today. In my country, some college campuses have "safe rooms" where students threatened by opinions different from their own can retreat and soothe themselves with cuddly toys. I'm not making this up, BTW...
> 
> NOTE: I am not equating such trivialities with sexual harassment, especially if practiced by a man with a potentially strong influence on a woman's future career. That's simply a form of extortion.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Jacck said:


> I know these things are not black and white. But from a purely rational perspective. If you have some famous person, and someone comes 30 years later with an accusation, that that person has tried to kiss him on some party, it is ridiculous. I do not believe for a single instant, that it is about justice. *It is about money, or trying to get 5 minutes of fame for the accuser*, or using it in a political fight etc. And even if it were about justice, it should not be done in such a public, character assassinating way, where the accuser does not need to provide any solid evidence, and the accused has no way of defending himself. Innocent until proven guilty used to be the golden principle of justice. Now someone says you harrassed him 30 years ago, and they fire you from your job, and delete you from movies you have made.


That is what Jimmy Saville was telling the police every time a new accusation came in. And they believed him! They did not follow up with proper enquiries - Saville went on to abuse 100s of victims - even girls dying of cancer in the hospital that he was doing charity work to fund. After he died it all came out and he has been stripped of all honours but he never faced justice for his crimes.

There may be cases where the accuser is looking for money. But what you must not do is dismiss every case without knowledge of the facts.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

I don't know what happened... USA have a very good law system. What I could say is only this: Thank you mercy full God I'm living in Germany where such problems are greatly unknown or extremely seldom.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Dimace said:


> I don't know what happened... USA have a very good law system. What I could say is only this: Thank you mercy full God I'm living in Germany *where such problems are greatly unknown* or extremely seldom.


these abuses tend be be kept quiet,by their nature

just because they are not in the news - doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Jacck said:


> rape, physical assault, robbery, car incidents, war indicents. There are actual traumas that cause actual PTSD. Not these minor incidents where whiners and histrionic personality disorders think that they have been traumatized.


It must be a good thing that crimes that used to be invisible and ignored - crimes that are hard to prove and where the victim risks being blamed or shamed - are taken more seriously these days? As a result of this all sorts of truly horrendous crimes, crimes that were sometimes committed on an industrial scale, have come to light and have led to successful prosecutions. It is enlightening (and frightening) that making it possible for victims to be heard has uncovered such systematic abuse. People ask themselves "how could we not know?" and it often turns out that many people had at least been aware of the rumours but had failed to act upon them.

This is the background and it explains a lot. It explains why multiple accusations from unconnected people and demonstrating a similar pattern are being widely believed without the cases ever going to law, for example. It may be true that we are all innocent until proven guilty but it is hardly surprising that the existence of widespread rumours are enough to block people from getting big jobs. They do, of course, have the option to challenge the accusations in court - to clear their names - which could be expensive but not beyond the means of international stars.

As for the suggestion that it is flaky to be traumatised by rape .... I am astonished that anyone living in the modern world can think that.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Enthusiast said:


> It must be a good thing that crimes that used to be invisible and ignored - crimes that are hard to prove and where the victim risks being blamed or shamed - are taken more seriously these days? As a result of this all sorts of truly horrendous crimes, crimes that were sometimes committed on an industrial scale, have come to light and have led to successful prosecutions. It is enlightening (and frightening) that making it possible for victims to be heard has uncovered such systematic abuse. People ask themselves "how could we not know?" and it often turns out that many people had at least been aware of the rumours but had failed to act upon them.
> 
> This is the background and it explains a lot. It explains why multiple accusations from unconnected people and demonstrating a similar pattern are being widely believed without the cases ever going to law, for example. It may be true that we are all innocent until proven guilty but it is hardly surprising that the existence of widespread rumours are enough to block people from getting big jobs. *They do, of course, have the option to challenge the accusations in court - to clear their names -* which could be expensive but not beyond the means of international stars.
> 
> As for the suggestion that it is flaky to be traumatised by rape .... I am astonished that anyone living in the modern world can think that.


That can only happen if the case goes to crown court.

In any case nobody is cleared as such. Since courts only establish whether the prosecution have proven their case.

Courts do not proclaim innocence.

When there is no court case - it is up to organisations to decide whether on the balance of probabilities, that Mr X, or whoever - poses a risk to their employees. They may still make this decision even if Mr X is found not guilty.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I meant that the accused could bring civil cases against their accusers. Is this not the case? 

As for the process of criminal law there has recently been a very high profile case in Britain in which an apparent "whistle-blower" who claimed knowledge of a network of high profile and powerful child abusers (from 30 years or so back) was successfully prosecuted for lying and given a severe sentence.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I meant that the accused could bring civil cases against their accusers. Is this not the case?
> 
> As for the process of criminal law there has recently been a very high profile case in Britain in which an apparent "whistle-blower" who claimed knowledge of a network of high profile and powerful child abusers (from 30 years or so back) was successfully prosecuted for lying and given a severe sentence.


Yes Domingo could bring a case against his accusers - defamation of character, possibly.

As for the other case - that was initiated by the crown prosecution service who had enough evidence that the accuser had fabricated all his accusations.


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