# English Opera



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

What are some of your favourite operas in the English language? I know for some, English is perhaps an awkward language for opera, but nonetheless many great pieces have been composed.

I shall start with a few. Perhaps the greatest of all English operas ever written. 

Handel, _Semele_ (1744)

Handel, _Hercules_ (1744)

Both are categorised in his _oeuvre_ as "oratorios" (historical reasons) but oratorios they ain't.

Does anyone have the following version of _Hercules_ by William Christie (2006)?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Yes I do and I love it. I'm always banging on about Joyce DiDonato's heart-rending performance of "Where shall I fly".

Handel oratorios I also love are Solomon and Athalia.

Other English language favourites are the Rake's Progress, Porgy and Bess and Dido and Aeneas.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Yep. Purcell's _Dido and Aeneas_ is a fine piece. Lots of very good versions around.

I haven't listened to Stravinsky's _The Rake's Progress_ entirely yet. Shall do soon.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

English operas... written by a German composer who was profoundly impacted by the Italians.

I quite like Delius' _A Village Romeo and Juliet_.

Britten might be the greatest native English opera composer:_ Peter Grimes, A Midsummer Night's Dream, The Turn of the Screw, Billy Budd, Death in Venice_.

Thomas Adès seems promising... although I have only just heard bits of _Powder Her Face_, and only heard _The Tempest_ once all the way through.

While I quite like Purcell, I wasn't sold on _Dido and Aeneas_... should I give _The Faerie Queene_ a shot?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> While I quite like Purcell, I wasn't sold on _Dido and Aeneas_... should I give _The Faerie Queene_ a shot?


Absolutely. It's wonderful. Just keep in mind that it is a masque, not opera, therefore it is very different, it is a synthesis of different genres that doesn't follow the usual operatic language.

I love many of the above quoted (Peter Grimes and The Rake's Progress are among my favorites, and Porgy and Bess is very special), and I'd add The Ghosts of Versailles.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Absolutely. It's wonderful. Just keep in mind that it is a masque, not opera, therefore it is very different, it is a synthesis of different genres that doesn't follow the usual operatic language.
> 
> I love many of the above quoted (Peter Grimes and The Rake's Progress are among my favorites, and Porgy and Bess is very special), and I'd add The Ghosts of Versailles.


Fair point about Purcell, although at that point in time (1689), the genre of English opera was not as well developed as one might think, and _Dido_ was the closest one could associate the terms "English opera" with it.

The first true English opera came along when Handel penned his masterpieces.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I think the first work to be called an English opera was John Blow's Venus and Adonis.
But I hear what you mean about Handel.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

"*English language*" operas? Accck! I missed that. Surely add _Porgy and Bess_, Albéniz' _Henry Clifford_ and _Merlin_, Glass' _Einstein on the Beach_ and _Waiting for the Barbarians_, Victor Herbert _Babes in Toyland_, Carlisle Floyd's _Susannah_, Menotti's The Consul, Amahl and The Night Visitors, The Medium, Louis Andriessen's _Rosa - The Death of a Composer_, Tobias Picker's _Therese Raquin_, Jake Heggie _Dead Man Walking, Three Decembers_, James MacMillan _The Sacrifice,_...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I think the first work to be called an English opera was John Blow's Venus and Adonis.
> But I hear what you mean about Handel.


Yep. I've got _Venus and Adonis_ directed by Rene Jacobs on the Harmonia Mundi Gold label. Nice.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> "*English language*" operas? Accck! I missed that. Surely add _Porgy and Bess_, Albéniz' _Henry Clifford_ and _Merlin_, Glass' _Einstein on the Beach_ and _Waiting for the Barbarians_, Victor Herbert _Babes in Toyland_, Carlisle Floyd's _Susannah_, Menotti's The Consul, Amahl and The Night Visitors, The Medium, Louis Andriessen's _Rosa - The Death of a Composer_, Tobias Picker's _Therese Raquin_, Jake Heggie _Dead Man Walking, Three Decembers_, James MacMillan _The Sacrifice,_...


Wow, wow! Slow down. I don't know several of them. Which ones are your favourites, as an English language opera?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Wow, wow! Slow down. I don't know several of them. Which ones are your favourites, as an English language opera?


Here is a partial list of American operas (many more exist), for what it's worth (I don't know most of them)

Amahl and the Night Visitors​Amelia Goes to the Ball​Antony and Cleopatra​The Aspern Papers​The Ballad of Baby Doe​The Boor​The Canterbury Pilgrims​The Consul​The Cradle Will Rock​Cyrano​David Rizzio​The Death of Klinghoffer​Doctor Atomic​Evangeline​A Full Moon in March​Gallantry​The Ghosts of Versailles​Goya​The Greenfield Christmas Tree​A Hand Of Bridge​Harvey Milk​I Was Looking At the Ceiling And Then I Saw the Sky​Introductions and Good-Byes​Judith​The Jumping Frog of Calaveras County​The King's Henchman​Little Women​Lord Byron​The Medium​Merry Mount​Miss Havisham's Fire​Miss Havisham's Wedding Night​Nixon in China​Peter Ibbetson​The Picture of Dorian Gray​The Pipe of Desire​Porgy and Bess​Postcard from Morocco​A Quiet Place​Robin Hood​The Ruby​The Sacrifice​The Saint of Bleecker Street​Six Characters In Search of an Author​Solomon and Balkis​The Stoned Guest​The Stronger​Susannah​The Tender Land​Treemonisha​Trouble in Tahiti​Vanessa​A View From The Bridge​The Visitation​A Water Bird Talk​Will You Marry Me?​


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Wow, wow! Slow down. I don't know several of them. Which ones are your favourites, as an English language opera? 

_Porgy and Bess_ is a clear favorite. 
I also quite like any of the Britten operas and as I already noted, Delius' _A Village Romeo and Juliet_.
I have a thing for Minimalism (which may be connected with my love of Indian music) and so I quite like Glass' _Einstein of the Beach_ and _Waiting for the Barbarians_
Another I failed to mention is Harry Partch' _Delusion of the Fury_... which in many ways is far more innovative (and challenging) than anything by Schoenberg, Berg, Cage, Ligeti, Glass, etc...
Of the less-well-known I quite like the operas by Menotti, Floyd's _Susannah_ and Picker's _Therese Raquin_. 
Louis Andriessen's may be a bit too "out there"... along with Glass and Reich's _Dr. Atomic, Death of Klinghoffer_, and _Nixon in China_... but I quite like it.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I like Dido and Aeneas, Semele, A Village Romeo and Juliet, Sāvitri, Troilus and Cressida, The Midsummer Marriage, Peter Grimes, Albert Herring, The Turn of the Screw, Owen Wingrave, Death in Venice and The Rake's Progress.

Janet Baker recorded some of those mentioned and I'm especially partial to her recordings!

I wonder why English is considered awkward as an opera language, since most of the popular music is sung in English. Could someone explain that to me?


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Vaughan-Williams is an underrated opera composer. Try the Chandos recordings of Sir John in Love and Pilgrim's Progress to get an idea of what he was able to accomplish.

Britten probably has the most interesting selection, with Peter Grimes being in my opinion one of the best operas ever. I also like Albert Herring, Billy Budd, Death in Venice, Midsummer Night's Dream etc.

For American I would add Moore's Baby Doe, Davis' X, Tania, Amistad, Previn's Streetcar.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Rangstrom said:


> Vaughan-Williams is an underrated opera composer. Try the Chandos recordings of Sir John in Love and Pilgrim's Progress to get an idea of what he was able to accomplish.


I got the Pilgrim's Progress but it is still on my unlistened to pile.


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Herkku said:


> I wonder why English is considered awkward as an opera language, since most of the popular music is sung in English. Could someone explain that to me?


No, I can't, I'm also puzzled. In my opinion, the most unsuited language of those in common operatic use is very clearly French, and by a wide margin, with all these nasal sounds. In fact, every time I watch a French opera, I'm in constant fear the singers might hurt themselves. (Apologies to our French friends here, but it's not your fault.)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Gualtier Malde said:


> No, I can't, I'm also puzzled. In my opinion, the most unsuited language of those in common operatic use is very clearly French, and by a wide margin, with all these nasal sounds. In fact, every time I watch a French opera, I'm in constant fear the singers might hurt themselves. (Apologies to our French friends here, but it's not your fault.)


Really? There are so many spectacular French operas and arias...
They got such a beautiful style...

Think of an aria like 'Pourquoi me réveiller?'
Or one like 'Je crois entendre encore'
Or the Barcarolle...

French opera and French style of singing can be quite outstanding.
French *is* a beautiful language.











And now, for this sublime video with these two gorgeous ladies:


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Really? There are so many spectacular French operas and arias...


Perhaps I should have been more specific, I think the main culprits are _oi_ and (nasal) _i._ Try this little composition of mine:

Quinquin, pourquoi boire du vin?

It seems next to impossible to control pitch while pronouncing these sounds.
Maybe it's because French already sounds so melodic when spoken.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

A linguistically minded friend recently complained of a famous tenor in a performance of Carmen pronouncing Carmen like "car men" in English...

How about the "th" as in the article "the"? I "th"ink "th"at could be difficult for a non-native English singer.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Gualtier Malde said:


> Perhaps I should have been more specific, I think the main culprits are _oi_ and (nasal) _i._ Try this little composition of mine:
> 
> Quinquin, pourquoi boire du vin?
> 
> ...


I know that French has some harsh sounds but I find it beautiful anyway.
I fell in love with French literature in translation since I was a teenager, and when I learned French for good, I read again many of those works in original language, and was stunned with the poetry of the language. Granted, it is not as melodic as Italian, but it is melodic enough, it is elegant and precise.
I like French opera, and I find that with the right singers, the sounds are very beautiful, like in the clips that I posted above.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Herkku said:


> A linguistically minded friend recently complained of a famous tenor in a performance of Carmen pronouncing Carmen like "car men" in English...


I believe that the right way to sing Carmen in the original language - French, of course, in spite of the Spanish name and subject - *is* to stress the last syllable.

Like they sing right before the Habanera:

Carmen! sur tes pas nous nous pressons tous!
Carmen! soi gentille, au moins répond-nous...

Remember?


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I like French opera.


Oh, me too, in fact, my French is still in much better shape than my Italian, so it's easier for me to digest French operas. Of course, that's just because I know hardly any Italian, but I'm now working on this (the Italian).
I just noticed that French seems really hard to sing because it moves your jaws into funny tight positions. However, TC members with French signature lines may keep them.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Yes, but I don't mean the stress, but the "r".


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Herkku said:


> Yes, but I don't mean the stress, but the "r".


Oh, OK. Hehehe


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

The one I'd add is Tippett, if you mean opera from the UK.

As for operas in English, there have been a fair few from here Down Under, including by the late Richard Meale (_Voss_) & the more recent _Bliss_ by Brett Dean...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have struggled to like English opera (that written to an English language libretto). So far, there is only one I really like a lot: Michael William Balfe's "The Bohemian Girl"









This opera is most famous for this wonderful aria:


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## zxxyxxz (Apr 14, 2020)

I have been meaning to check out the Bohemian Girl so I might give it a whirl. However I have been burned by English Opera before, great sounding plots dull operas. 

Case in point
Mcfarren's Robin Hood
Wallace Lurline
Sullivan Ivanhoe

Obviously Britten's works are good but I do admit to struggling with his style a bit. 

For a lesser known (or at least recommended work) I will add Edward Loder's Raymond & Agnes. A gothic story of lust and violence with a villian caught by his own trap.

There is a fantastic studio recording on Retrospect Opera, conducted by Richard Bonynge with Mark Milhofee, Majella Cullagh and Andrew Greenan. There are some wonderful moments for the evil Baron Lindenberg (Bass Baritone?).

It has all the dialog which for me is great as I love that they treat the piece almost as serious Gilbert and Sullivan. The opera is usually catchy the easiest comparrision is with Der Freischütz, it is on the lighter side of opera but certainly an opera as opposed to an operetta.

The recording also comes will full track by track libretto. Though the diction of the cast is usual good.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Sid James said:


> The one I'd add is Tippett, if you mean opera from the UK.
> 
> As for operas in English, there have been a fair few from here Down Under, including by the late Richard Meale (_Voss_) & the more recent _Bliss_ by Brett Dean...


Specifically Tippett's "The Midsummer Marriage," which has a weird libretto, but contains some of the most beautiful music written in midcentury.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

How is Hanson's _Merry Mount_?


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