# Classical Music On the Radio Part One



## Colin M (May 31, 2018)

Question to my new found friends. I listen to Classical radio two times a day on average. In a less than ten minute drive each way work apartment to hospital. Does it bug you that a lot of stations don’t play a complete work but just a movement or even less? I ask that while looking at Monet’s impression Sunrise in our Winston Condo and if all I could see is the red orange sun rising above the harbor it would be really speciAl. However seeing its light reflect off the water and the clouds being washed away make it a work and not a snapshot. Thoughts?


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

I listen to our local CM station most nights and on the whole they play complete works but some times they do play selection from works I think this is part of dumbing down in an effort to attract new listeners to CM.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Colin M said:


> Does it bug you that a lot of stations don't play a complete work but just a movement or even less?


As someone who doesn't especially care for the symphonies of Brahms: No.

Radio is, by and large, something that people have on in the background while doing something else. Like taking a ten-minute drive! It relies on variety to keep people listening. This isn't about attention spans, either - if faced with a lengthy period of programming you don't like, of course you're going to switch off or change stations. Given the widespread availability of recordings and means of listening to them, I don't see why it needs to be radio's job nowadays to always play full works.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Colin M said:


> Question to my new found friends. I listen to Classical radio two times a day on average. In a less than ten minute drive each way work apartment to hospital. Does it bug you that a lot of stations don't play a complete work but just a movement or even less? I ask that while looking at Monet's impression Sunrise in our Winston Condo and if all I could see is the red orange sun rising above the harbor it would be really speciAl. However seeing its light reflect off the water and the clouds being washed away make it a work and not a snapshot. Thoughts?


It does bug me, yes. Classic FM in the UK will play the _Sunrise_ from Strauss's masterpiece _Also Sprach Zarathustra_ but no more (although, in their defence, they do feature full works in their evening slot). I generally listen to Radio 3........


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Used to listen to Classic FM a lot when in kitchen but was fed up with listening with what they were telling me to listen to, so bought a small CD player for in there. Rarely listen to radio now.


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## Score reader (Mar 18, 2018)

No it doesn't. As previously mentioned, it just prevents people from switching stations and I don't really want to be stuck listening to a 45-minute symphony I don't care about. If it's something I do like, I'll just find the full version on Spotify.

I think in today's times, listening to the radio is either another way of discovering new works, or just background so keeping it short and snappy makes sense.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

As I've said before, I loathe radio. Nothing worse than listening to music you'd rather not hear again or stuff you never liked in the first place. I only ever listen to what I want to listen to via 1x64Gb and 1x32Gb USB stick in the car. At home I have all my CDs and a couple of hard drives to go at and if I'm elsewhere I have 16Gb on my phone. If I never heard one radio station again I would die a happy man. Harsh but true.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

At home, with so many CDs at my disposal, I have no need for radio.

In the car, I used to play the radio sometimes in the past, but when we bought our Corsa in 2011, we spent a bit extra for a music centre with USB connection. A 32 gb stick takes care of all our listening desires.

The idea of playing bleeding chunks (isolated movements of symphonies) is completely alien to me, even though I know that on TC several people do that.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Colin M said:


> Does it bug you that a lot of stations don't play a complete work but just a movement or even less? I ask that while looking at Monet's impression Sunrise in our Winston Condo and if all I could see is the red orange sun rising above the harbor it would be really speciAl. However seeing its light reflect off the water and the clouds being washed away make it a work and not a snapshot. Thoughts?


It really bugs me. Chunks of music tell you so little about the work. Even Wagner! And the same for paintings. Having said this, I am conscious that I have just posted that for some ballets in prefer the suite to the whole thing. I think that is because with some ballets the whole thing has quite a lot of filler. And I guess a well made suite is a whole piece and not mere chunk.

Of course, I guess tastes vary so much that radio stations need to keep people who don't much care for the current piece willing to stay tuned for the next piece. And I suppose a taste is a way of remembering the whole thing if you already know it. But, still,it bugs me.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

The only time I've listened to the radio in the car over the past decade (maybe a half dozen times) is because something happened and I left the house without a few CD's. Almost all of the public radio stations in my area have stopped playing classical music and switched over to talk shows.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's it was a different story. Whoever was doing the programming for the local NPR station had great taste. He would play the most recent releases of the leading labels. I would often amaze my wife by stating the piece of music, orchestra, conductor, and label before it was announced. No magic involved, it was what I had just purchased myself. And, listening back then did turn me on to some music I was unfamiliar with. I remember hearing Copland's "The Red Pony Suite" for the first time one Sunday morning on the way to the record store I worked part time at. I ordered it as soon as I got there and had people coming into the store asking about it all morning. But in retrospect, my car back then did not have a CD player. If it had, I'm sure I would have been listening to my own discs.
Listening to the radio at home has not been happening since the late 60's.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Classical radio has always been mostly ghastly for many reasons -- I dscovered this as a kid in Boston in the '60s when what I haerd on the commercial classical station never held my attention like what I played on the phonograph at home. When I was in charge of CM at a college stationm I had a hard and fast rule against playing anything but complete works. (Exception: operatic arias, ballet suites.)


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Does it bug you that a lot of stations don't play a complete work but just a movement or even less?_

I assume you are talking about NPR, the public radio outlets in USA, or the relatively few privately-owned commercial stations.

I think the issue you are having is the times you choose to listen. NPR has several unstated "rules" it follows during the daytime and especially the 9 am-2 pm time slot:
-- Play little or nothing of greater than 12 minutes' duration.
-- Play nothing in a minor key.

They relax these "rules" in the evenings and overnights, especially if the station broadcasts live or taped concerts.

The only times I hear entire pieces played during the day is after 2 pm and usually after 3 pm going into their news broadcasts that begin at 4 pm. And these are usually symphonies or concertos of less than 30 minutes' duration.

One DJ on my local station used to play the 4 Schumann symphonies in that time period with such regularity my friends and I began calling it the "Schumann hour."

Only one time in 45 years listening did I hear them play a complete Bruckner symphony in the afternoon -- and the DJ complained of its length!

One other time, on the first anniversary of 9/11, I heard them play Beethoven's 9th symphony in the afternoon.

The program director has a new recordings program Friday afternoons; if he plays a Mahler symphony, he will split it in two parts with station breaks et al in between.

My advice to you is start listening at night and before you go to bed when the programming is better.


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## Colin M (May 31, 2018)

Great responses and great advice. There is a reason I have a CD player in my car


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

I listen to radio almost every day.
I look up in advice what music will be played so I don´t miss something I am interested in.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

listen to Kusc on a APP for the smart phone. free. also WQRX on i heart radio APP phone.


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## DBLee (Jan 8, 2018)

I have limited options for classical radio; but, thankfully, those limited options (almost?) exclusively play works in their entirety.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I have found that KUSC plays single movements often during normal work hours and commute times. It seems to me that this tendency has become more pronounced in recent years and seems logical. Similarly, the station plays more movie and video game music recently, likely following what it thinks are the tastes of its audience.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

The chief offender here in Britain is Classic FM, usually listened to by people driving to and from work, and in kitchens: it is the standby when I do my share of the cooking. This kind of listening indicates the scheduling of short pieces (of which there are plenty) and an argument could be made for playing the slow movement from symphonies as so many of them have an inner coherence and can stand alone. I'm not sure about other symphonic movements, which too often cry out for the rest of the work to be played. No doubt I'm not alone in muttering 'What about the rest of the symphony?'. Truly appalling are the circumstances in which there is a segue at the end of a movement, ignored by the classic FM announcer who goes on to announce the next piece. The only appropriate punishment for this is a consignment to the outer darkness!


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

manyene said:


> The chief offender here in Britain is Classic FM, usually listened to by people driving to and from work, and in kitchens: it is the standby when I do my share of the cooking. This kind of listening indicates the scheduling of short pieces (of which there are plenty) and an argument could be made for playing the slow movement from symphonies as so many of them have an inner coherence and can stand alone. I'm not sure about other symphonic movements, which too often cry out for the rest of the work to be played. No doubt I'm not alone in muttering 'What about the rest of the symphony?'. Truly appalling are the circumstances in which there is a segue at the end of a movement, ignored by the classic FM announcer who goes on to announce the next piece. The only appropriate punishment for this is a consignment to the outer darkness!


Why do you think I bought a CD player for kitchen?


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I listen to two different radio stations when I drive for work. They will mostly play complete works, but not always. Seems they are careful to not talk during any part of the recording. Both stations however do populate their programming with syndicated offerings such as Exploring Music, etc.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> As someone who doesn't especially care for the symphonies of Brahms: No.
> 
> Radio is, by and large, something that people have on in the background while doing something else. Like taking a ten-minute drive! It relies on variety to keep people listening. This isn't about attention spans, either - if faced with a lengthy period of programming you don't like, of course you're going to switch off or change stations. Given the widespread availability of recordings and means of listening to them, I don't see why it needs to be radio's job nowadays to always play full works.


Brahm´s third symphony is around 35 minutes long not that much. Some of us like to hear full works.
I spend four hours last Saturday evening listening to Die Walkyrie and two weeks earlier Tristan und Isolde.
One good thing with radio is to hear performances and even works that is not available on record.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Dan Ante said:


> I listen to our local CM station most nights and on the whole they play complete works but some times they do play selection from works *I think this is part of dumbing down in an effort to attract new listeners to CM*.


I don't see why that is 'dumbing down'. When I was a kid getting into listening I listened to selections and movements from bigger works.
The best way to put off new listeners is to plonk a long work in multiple movements onto the playlist. That listener doesn't know when it starts and ends and if he's still listening to the same work.

I've been listening to francemusique.fr the last few months and they play a decent selection (a lot of Debussy!) and split the stations into: Easy, plus, concerts, contemporary...

The first plays movements from the well-known canon. The second plays works from well-known and lesser-known composers; the third plays entire concerts. Contemporary plays, well, contemporary music!

No, chatter in between. Probably not so good for people who want info and are only listening rather than listening and reading.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Judith said:


> Why do you think I bought a CD player for kitchen?


Do you use different music for different dishes? Do you have a Beethoven casserole, perhaps, or a Mozart meat loaf? I'm wondering what dishes you do to Ligeti? Or maybe you don't.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I despise our local non-profit classical station, run by the local community colleges. The rarely play complete works of the and have a predilection for playing Baroque music, which I detest, too. Then again on the weekend, it's Sunday Baroque. They used to have concert relays of major orchestra, but have dropped that, too.


Tucson however has a terrific station. They play complete works. Driving about I've heard Gliere 3, Mahler 6, Tchaikovsky Manfred -- and very little baroque! They relay concerts from Dallas, Chicago, New York, Cleveland and San Francisco. And two terrific locally produced programs. One, Fiesta!, is on music from south of the border. Another plays modern, avant garde music. Great station. But I still keep the car stocked with a load of cds and memory sticks just in case.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Just a little side thought - if I listen to Act one of a Wagner opera am I committing some heinous crime against music?
Or put another way is that regarded as a bleeding chunk?

Frankly I really don't care what radio stations play as I rarely listen to music programmes. I will take in the odd discussion about music with illustrative excerpts, that I can live with. On my long car journeys I tend to listen to news and travel info - boring but there we go.


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## Martin D (Dec 13, 2016)

manyene said:


> The chief offender here in Britain is Classic FM, usually listened to by people driving to and from work, and in kitchens:


That's always been the case. The problem is that Radio 3 has steadily gone the same way and is now a virtual match for CFM is awfulness.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Radio 3 is nothing like Classic FM. Alongside their full concerts and coverage of festivals they play commissioned works and always go in-depth. They also produce related arts programming.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

eugeneonagain said:


> I don't see why that is 'dumbing down'. When I was a kid getting into listening I listened to selections and movements from bigger works.
> The best way to put off new listeners is to plonk a long work in multiple movements onto the playlist. That listener doesn't know when it starts and ends and if he's still listening to the same work.
> 
> I've been listening to francemusique.fr the last few months and they play a decent selection (a lot of Debussy!) and split the stations into: Easy, plus, concerts, contemporary...
> ...


Why does the "Easy" station play movements from well known works?


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Dan Ante said:


> Why does the "Easy" station play movements from well known works?


So that people can listen to works that are well-known. Do you want to ask a more direct question?


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

eugeneonagain said:


> So that people can listen to works that are well-known. Do you want to ask a more direct question?


Why would they do this? 
I suggest it is to tempt the casual listener/more people into the classical repertoire. In other words dumbing down as in presenting what the program makers see as the easiest and more accessible parts of complete works. Perhaps you don't like the term dumbing down so call it what ever you like.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Playing the parts of a composer's or musician's output that are the most popular or memorable is done for all genres. Even The Beatles only get maybe 20% of their songs played outside of specialty programs like Breakfast with The Beatles. Greatest hits compilation CDs are the same way. I would much prefer the term "sampling" to "dumbing down," as what is being discussed is not dumb on either end.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

bharbeke said:


> Playing the parts of a composer's or musician's output that are the most popular or memorable is done for all genres. Even The Beatles only get maybe 20% of their songs played outside of specialty programs like Breakfast with The Beatles. Greatest hits compilation CDs are the same way. I would much prefer the term "sampling" to "dumbing down," as what is being discussed is not dumb on either end.


Dumbing down is not part of their output or repertoire its part of a particular work say the first eight bars of a Beatles song, perhaps "simplified" would be more acceptable as in "Simplified so as to be intellectually undemanding and accessible to a wide audience" perhaps look up dumbed down on the www.


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## DBLee (Jan 8, 2018)

Dan Ante said:


> I suggest it is to tempt the casual listener/more people into the classical repertoire.


I don't see this as a bad thing. Classical music needs more listeners, and more people are likely to start out by dipping their toes in the shallow end rather than doing a triple lindy off the high dive. Once they do get in, they are far more likely to swim to the deep end than those who steer clear of the water.

I personally much prefer hearing whole works, but I suppose playing single, more accessible movements has its place as well. Sirius (satellite) Radio used to have a "Pops" station that did this, playing such things as the 1st movement of Beethoven's 5th, the Andante from Mozart's 21st Piano Concerto, etc. At the same time, they also have a "Symphony Hall" channel that plays entire works and somewhat more ambitious works for the listener. I am sure many of the "Symphony Hall" listeners started out solely by tuning into "Pops" every now and then.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

DBLee said:


> I don't see this as a bad thing. Classical music needs more listeners, and more people are likely to start out by dipping their toes in the shallow end rather than doing a triple lindy off the high dive. Once they do get in, they are far more likely to swim to the deep end than those who steer clear of the water.


I agree 100% I am all for it, a rough poll carried out years ago in NZ said classical listeners accounted for approx 10%
of radio listeners I would think that may be even lower today, we are in fact lucky to still have a station devoted to classical + a wee bit of jazz and advert free.


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## Martin D (Dec 13, 2016)

eugeneonagain said:


> Radio 3 is nothing like Classic FM. Alongside their full concerts and coverage of festivals they play commissioned works and always go in-depth. They also produce related arts programming.


It is in regard to its "playlist" programmes in the mornings. Check out all the criticism it has received on the Radio 3 forum website. Things have got a lot worse as it has tried to emulate CFM. It's all a matter of taste and preference but I don't much care for R3 programming at any time of the day, and I loathe CFM. Agreed that outside R 3's prime-time morning schedules things haven't changed a lot, but it's not that good generally, involving a mix of what I find quite boring gossipy/news/personal interview programmes. The whole of the night time schedule ("TTN") is always taken up completely with live recordings, some of which are of dubious quality. I find its coverage of events like the Proms to be of variable quality, and involving far too much chat around the main event. I do agree however that CFM doesn't offer anything similar in regard to live events and this makes it even worse.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

It's only recently that I checked back at Classic FM - via internet - because I hadn't listened to it since the 1990s. I saw they have employed Charlotte Green, ex Radio 4 newsreader/announcer with the golden voice, so I thought it had improved. She can't possibly be enjoying it there.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Malx said:


> Just a little side thought - if I listen to Act one of a Wagner opera am I committing some heinous crime against music?
> Or put another way is that regarded as a bleeding chunk?
> 
> Frankly I really don't care what radio stations play as I rarely listen to music programmes. I will take in the odd discussion about music with illustrative excerpts, that I can live with. On my long car journeys I tend to listen to news and travel info - boring but there we go.


No, I don't think a full act of Wagner counts as a "bleeding chunk". We're only human, after all. BTW that term - "bleeding chunks" - I have it in mind as a Beecham invention. Do you know if I'm right in this.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

"Does it bug you that a lot of stations don't play a complete work but just a movement or even less?"

Not really. It doesn't bother me because most listeners have probably already heard the entire work before. Playing a movement or section is likely to happen only during some of the more popular hours of the day when it may not be the best time to play longer works from the station's point of view. It's not exactly that most stations have _never_ played an entire symphony or suite; it usually only happens during certain hours, such as commute or lunch times.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Enthusiast said:


> BTW that term - "bleeding chunks" - I have it in mind as a Beecham invention. Do you know if I'm right in this.


Probably Donald Tovey (link).


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