# Pieces with pauses where people clap, mistakenly thinking it is the end



## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Not talking about clapping between movements or after major arias.

Yesterday I was listening to a live performance by the Minnesota Orchestra of Dvorak's _"New World" Symphony_. In the famous slow movement, during the reprise of the opening theme there is a place where the melody breaks off ... at that point someone broke in with raucous clapping! The orchestra didn't miss a beat.

Not trying to mock mistaken listeners; I appreciate their enthusiasm. But still, it's kind of amusing. Anyone know of other examples?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Bruckner’s 2nd Symphony has been called the ‘symphony of pauses’ because of long rests, particularly in the 1st movement. Maybe some people unfamiliar with it would tend to clap at some point.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

I avoid making this embarrassing mistake by clapping _throughout_ a performance, in time with the orchestra of course.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

There's a false cadence in the development section of the finale of Haydn's Symphony No. 90, written in such a way to encourage the audience to applaud. And most do so...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It occurs to me that premature clapping could be a form of music criticism, perhaps a way of saying, "this thing may not be over, but it should be."


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> It occurs to me that premature clapping could be a form of music criticism, perhaps a way of saying, "this thing may not be over, but it should be."


Reminds me of a Samuel Johnson anecdote:
_Upon his hearing a celebrated performer go through a hard composition, and hearing it remarked that it was very difficult, he said, "I would it had been impossible."_


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> Bruckner's 2nd Symphony has been called the 'symphony of pauses' because of long rests, particularly in the 1st movement. Maybe some people unfamiliar with it would tend to clap at some point.


Never heard of that one. Maybe the rests are stops for breath while climbing in the Alps?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

For me, the most exciting one is the deceptive ending before the coda of finale in the Tchaikovsky 5th. Both as an audience member and performer I always get anxious as it nears to see if any bozo is going to clap - someone usually does. Some conductors try using huge arm movements to hold the clappers off. One I know just goes straight from the fermata onto the next bar with no cut off. As Lorin Maazel would have said, "Philistines!". (Of course, he said that in terms of the ubiquitous applause after the 3rd movement of the 6th.)

Another real trap for audiences is the ending of the Sibelius 5th. More than once I've heard morons fall into the trap.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Logos said:


> I avoid making this embarrassing mistake by clapping _throughout_ a performance, in time with the orchestra of course.


Cool -- The Symphony of a Thousand Claps -- some composer will take up this idea!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

erroneous post here


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> For me, the most exciting one is the deceptive ending before the coda of finale in the Tchaikovsky 5th.


The Tchaikovsky 5th finale I have experienced playing double bass in a youth orchestra. The silence is after a loud dominant seventh chord! As the performance was already pretty rough, in the orchestra we may have actually appreciated the clapper's supportiveness (probably a parent!).


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

You'd have to be quite anti-musical but imagine someone started clapping at the silence near the end of the Poem of Ecstasy, right before the buildup to the last chord. Coitus interruptus indeed.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

One year at Tanglewood, Leinsdorf was conducting the Brahms Fourth, and after the scherzo, when a good portion of the audience erupted in applause, he just went with the flow -- leaping around, spreading his arms, and accepting the applause with a big smile.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Not long ago I went to a concert by the Estonian Symphony Orchestra led by Neeme Järvi. One of the pieces was Arvo Pärt's _Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten_, for strings and a single tubular bell.

The ending fades away. Then there is a long pause before a final toll of the bell. The audience evidently didn't know about the bell, because the applause started early. Maestro Jarvi was ready for it. Without turning around, he shot out one arm with a hand motion that clearly meant, "Not yet!" It worked.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Some conductors try using huge arm movements to hold the clappers off.


I once saw Barenboim frantically gesticulate at the audience to stop the premature applause during a performance of Schoenberg's Five Pieces for orchestra. But who can blame them? With that sort of music I'm not sure even the performers are always sure where the end is.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2018)

One thing I will never understand is why in some opera performances I have seen the audience applauds before an act finishes, like, in the last 20 bars or so of music, as if there are people with such a strong desire to ruin the emotional weight of an ending that they begin to interrupt the performance with applause. It can't be a mistake though, because the the story, the music, the production blatantly continues on right up until the final note has sounded, the emotion of whatever the ending was still carries through as _the opera has not yet ended._

One of my favourite experiences in the entire world is the silence between the end of a good performance and the first clap. (please don't ruin that!)


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

shirime said:


> One thing I will never understand is why in some opera performances I have seen the audience applauds before an act finishes, like, in the last 20 bars or so of music, as if there are people with such a strong desire to ruin the emotional weight of an ending that they begin to interrupt the performance with applause. It can't be a mistake though, because the the story, the music, the production blatantly continues on right up until the final note has sounded, the emotion of whatever the ending was still carries through as _the opera has not yet ended._
> 
> One of my favourite experiences in the entire world is the silence between the end of a good performance and the first clap. (please don't ruin that!)


I can kind of understand people clapping after an exceptional aria, especially in an opera that is well-known, and especially in an opera or other pieces where sections smaller than movements/acts are clearly separate like in many of Tchaikovsky's works.

Some examples, I saw a performance of The Nutcracker where there were deliberate pauses between sections of the dream part with the dance of the sugar plum fairies et al., also, I believe it was Eugene Onegin, there was an extremely moving aria by a bass/baritone and they paused for applause, which I partook in.

One thing that is inexcusable is when applause is included in a recording and it begins before the final notes have faded away.

In general I would rather people not clap before a piece has ended or make other interrupting sounds like laughter. I saw Waiting for Godot recently, and I was distracted by people laughing at certain scenes, though it was still very moving. I can understand it but I don't like it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A few years ago I attended a concert by the Takacs Quartet. Their first piece was a Haydn quartet, can't remember which one (there are so many!)

Anyway, they totally aced the first movement. People couldn't help applauding. The players seemed quite pleased.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

shirime said:


> One thing I will never understand is why in some opera performances I have seen the audience applauds before an act finishes, like, in the last 20 bars or so of music, as if there are people with such a strong desire to ruin the emotional weight of an ending that they begin to interrupt the performance with applause. It can't be a mistake though, because the the story, the music, the production blatantly continues on right up until the final note has sounded, the emotion of whatever the ending was still carries through as _the opera has not yet ended._
> 
> One of my favourite experiences in the entire world is the silence between the end of a good performance and the first clap. (please don't ruin that!)


I find that there is always someone who wants to be the first to yell "bravo". He wants everyone else to hear him yell "bravo" as if he is part of the show. I've heard the yell of "bravo" before the last line of La Traviata. Irritating because that's what I remember, and not the singing of Violeta as she dies.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

senza sordino said:


> I find that there is always someone who wants to be the first to yell "bravo". He wants everyone else to hear him yell "bravo" as if he is part of the show. I've heard the yell of "bravo" before the last line of La Traviata. Irritating because that's what I remember, and not the singing of Violeta as she dies.


Is yelling bravo bad if you do it during the bows for a particular performer you enjoyed? It's certainly bad during the actual performance.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

shirime said:


> One thing I will never understand is why in some opera performances I have seen the audience applauds before an act finishes, like, in the last 20 bars or so of music, as if there are people with such a strong desire to ruin the emotional weight of an ending that they begin to interrupt the performance with applause. It can't be a mistake though, because the the story, the music, the production blatantly continues on right up until the final note has sounded, the emotion of whatever the ending was still carries through as _the opera has not yet ended._
> 
> One of my favourite experiences in the entire world is the silence between the end of a good performance and the first clap. (please don't ruin that!)


Opera lovers are not like other humans. But in their partial defense, I think it is, or was, common for opera houses to begin lowering the curtain slowly during the last bars of music. I dare say that many people never heard the final chord of many an opera until they bought their first recording of it.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Yelling bravo during the bows and applause is of course permitted, it's a good thing, while the performer is still singing, not so good. Maybe I'm trying to mind read the yeller of bravo, but I think they want to be heard first, heard alone and be noticed. The yeller of bravo is saying "look at me".  It's not about the yeller, it's about the performance. But as I said, I'm probably mind reading and getting it wrong.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

senza sordino said:


> Yelling bravo during the bows and applause is of course permitted, it's a good thing, while the performer is still singing, not so good. Maybe I'm trying to mind read the yeller of bravo, but I think they want to be heard first, heard alone and be noticed. The yeller of bravo is saying "look at me". It's not about the yeller, it's about the performance. But as I said, I'm probably mind reading and getting it wrong.


I agree that someone yelling bravo during the decay of the final sound is trying to be noticed, but I am glad that it's appropriate to laud specific performers during the bows. I believe I yelled bravo for the baritone in Eugene Onegin during the bows, if I remember correctly. If that's not a moving aria then I don't know if I'm remembering correctly.

When I saw String Quartet No. 2 live, I wanted to cry and embrace every member of the quartet, but they only stayed on the stage for about 30 seconds before they left. It left me a bit sad after 5 hours of brilliance.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Two recordings I have stick in my mind,

1. I have a live Soviet-era recording of Shostakovich's ballet _The Age of Gold_ which is a fairly long work made up mainly of short-ish numbers. Whether the audience was generally unfamiliar with the work or simply over-enthusiastic I don't know, but there is more often than not smatterings of applause after nearly every track. The performance is rather good, but the clapping is certainly obtrusive.

2. Tennstedt's Proms recording of Mahler's sixth - just before the absolute dying away of the final movement's conclusion some clown yells BRAVO! Assuming the man is familiar with the work he should have known that the shattering impact of the conclusion is given even more gravitas by its fade into complete silence. If he wasn't, then surely the giveaway sign that the work is over is when the conductor turns, at length, to face the audience (it's a safe bet that Tennstedt wouldn't yet have done at that moment)? Either way, the exclamation was premature and should have been edited out.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Duplicate post - please ignore.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2018)

On a related note, there are other ways the music can be interrupted: https://www.limelightmagazine.com.a...mid-performance-after-audience-member-coughs/


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

shirime said:


> On a related note, there are other ways the music can be interrupted: https://www.limelightmagazine.com.a...mid-performance-after-audience-member-coughs/


I don't like to think of music as the sound produced, but rather as the intention of the composer.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

shirime said:


> One of my favourite experiences in the entire world is the silence between the end of a good performance and the first clap. (please don't ruin that!)


Oh yes.

Early 1970s some time, Berglund conducting Sibelius 6. The piece finished with that beautiful final sigh and the entire Royal Festival Hall audience sat in silence for what seemed like minutes. It was perfect.

And when the applause eventually broke out, it was ecstatic.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> I think it is, or was, common for opera houses to begin lowering the curtain slowly during the last bars of music.


It's still the standard operating procedure at the Met, to the detriment of the music.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

KenOC said:


> A few years ago I attended a concert by the Takacs Quartet. Their first piece was a Haydn quartet, can't remember which one (there are so many!)
> 
> Anyway, they totally aced the first movement. People couldn't help applauding. The players seemed quite pleased.


This was a topic on a podcast I recently heard (Joshua Weilerstein's "Sticky Notes"). Allegedly, the prohibition about applause between movements was instituted by Mahler. I think that it's a silly "rule" - there are certain movements that *beg* for applause (the third movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th, for example).


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

It's not only orchestral and opera concerts. Towards the end of Chopin's Ballade no. 4 in F Minor for piano there is a big triple-fff cadence in C Major (the dominant key) followed by a pause, where I've heard people break out in applause. It is followed by a series of soft chords, after which all hell breaks loose in the wild F Minor coda. 

What is interesting is that during the soft chords the premature applauders stop, because they see the pianist still playing but can't hear it. Also I am curious as to what percentage of the audience retains a sense of the tonic key, and what percentage has heard the piece recently enough to remember what happens here.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Fredx2098 said:


> I saw Waiting for Godot recently, and I was distracted by people laughing at certain scenes, though it was still very moving. I can understand it but I don't like it.


If people don't laugh at certain scenes of _Waiting for Godot_, it's not a very good production.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

amfortas said:


> If people don't laugh at certain scenes of _Waiting for Godot_, it's not a very good production.


That's true, but people were laughing at Lucky's speech which I thought interrupted it. It was an extremely moving performance of it as well.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Schubert's Trout - I warn classical newbies.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Fredx2098 said:


> That's true, but people were laughing at Lucky's speech which I thought interrupted it. It was an extremely moving performance of it as well.


I would not consider laughter inappropriate during Lucky's speech.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

jegreenwood said:


> I would not consider laughter inappropriate during Lucky's speech.


You're right, I laughed, but quietly. At times I couldn't hear what he was saying.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

amfortas said:


> If people don't laugh at certain scenes of _Waiting for Godot_, it's not a very good production.


Mike Nichols directed a New York production a number of years ago with Steve Martin and Robin Williams as Vladimir and Estragon. Bill Irwin (best known at the time as a post modern clown) played Lucky. F. Murray Abraham played Pozzo.

It was the toughest ticket in NYC. I didn't get to see it.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

shirime said:


> On a related note, there are other ways the music can be interrupted: https://www.limelightmagazine.com.a...mid-performance-after-audience-member-coughs/


Back in the 1960's and later, pianist Anton Kuerti would lecture the audience on the evils of smoking if he heard persistent coughing.


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## BiscuityBoyle (Feb 5, 2018)

There's a live recording by Gilels playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15 where, after he dispatches the last bravura chords of the first section with incomparable aplomb, some poor soul starts clapping and is shooshed by another audience member. I get the excitement but did s/he really think it lasts a mere 1:34?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I had the opposite experience at an Alfred Brendel concert: he finished a short piece, paused, no one applauded, and he went onto whatever was next.


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