# Finnish orchestral composer -- greater recognition?



## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Which Finnish orchestral composer's music most deserves greater recognition? (Sibelius not included)


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Raitio is surely under-recorded, an interesting, early-20th century fellow for sure - wrote stuff like "Moonlight on Jupiter" for orchestra, etc.

We need more recordings of Per Henrik Nordgren's music, they're all unique and so expensive.

Kokkonen has been well served by recordings & is probably my favourite besides Rautavaara.

Melartin, Englund, Palmgren, Kilpinen (no orchestral by him, I think), Madetoja, Rautavaara, Saariaho, Lindberg, Kaipaninen, Salonen have all been reasonably recorded too.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Add Aho and Sallinen to that final line and you have a pretty good overview.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> Raitio is surely under-recorded, an interesting, early-20th century fellow for sure - wrote stuff like "Moonlight on Jupiter" for orchestra, etc.
> 
> We need more recordings of Per Henrik Nordgren's music, they're all unique and so expensive.
> 
> ...


Agree.

I'll add Aarre Merikanto. His opera "Juha" is glorious and compelling while I find his symphonies and concerti well worth knowing (the second movement "Pieta: Tranquillo" of Piano Concerto III, for instance, is simply sublime).

I'll also add Toivo Kuula and Kalervo Tuukkanen


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

There are several who are fairly obscure in my country, the USA. Of the composers who are somewhat known, I can't honestly say that they deserve to be lumped in the company of the great composers. Aho is very prolific but nothing I've heard really strikes me as truly great or unique. He's like the Finnish version of the American, Joseph Schwantner. A fairly benign contemporary tonal composer whose music is unlikely to ruffle any feathers.

Saariaho, and Lindberg wrote some pieces of interest and vitality earlier in their careers but have been less inspired in recent years. Sallinen, and Salonen are just okay, but nothing spectacular. Rautavaara I haven't listened to enough to form an opinion. Segerstam apparently holds the title for the most symphonies never recorded or heard by anybody. Several hundred are claimed to have been composed.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I have three favourites among those already mentioned:

Firstly: Aulis Sallinen. He's great! There are some wonderfully beautiful pieces of music from him, especially the earlier operas, a few of the 8 (?) Symphonies, Quartets, and what I see as his masterpiece, the Songs of Life and Death. He has relaxed his style in his later years, in the same sort of way Penderecki has, but the music still remains very personal, and has a genuineness I appreciate.

Then Leevi Madetoja. The last of his three Symphonies is an utter utter masterpiece, and its predecessor is no slouch either. It probably doesn't "travel well", but the two big operas - Juha, and The Ostrobothnians - are works of a very fine musician indeed.

Aarre Merikanto. Sterner stuff than equally fine composers like Klami or Kuula. I need to persevere with him.

I respect Rautavaara, especially his wonderfully beautiful opera Thomas, and ditto Kokkonen for The Last Temptations, but find both hard to fathom in other works. I am very proud of the highly tentative link I have with the former, in that my fantastic cousin commissioned his most famous work!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you everyone, this is an excellent selection for someone (me) who knows only Sibelius and has very little knowledge of the others.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Two other talented composers are Klami and Fagerlund (especially the 2 operas). And I second the raves for Sallinen--the symphonies, the chamber music and, of course, the operas.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2019)

Aulis Sallinen and Kokkonen are two that I find less recognized than their music seems to justify, at least to me.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The only piece I've heard by Fagerlund is his bassoon concerto which I enjoyed. I bought the CD for Aho's bassoon concerto but was more impressed with Fagerlund. But a great disc overall for wind pieces. Includes two solo works as well.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Here are my favorite Finnish composers:

Aarre Merikanto
Vaino Raitio
Erik Bergman
Paavo Heininen
Eero Hameenniemi
Kaija Saariaho

Music by the half-dozen above (plus many more besides) deserves wider dissemination.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Melartin! I love those six symphonies - tuneful, well orchestrated, exciting. Would make nice additions (or replacement) to some of the tired, worn-out standard repertoire. Wish scores/parts were easier to get.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Seppo Pohjola. His symphonies prove to be accesible modern works.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I've been actively exploring the music of late 19th, 20th & early 21st Finnish composers over the past several years myself. Like you, I started with Jean Sibelius (back in the 1980s), whose 7 symphonies I rate among the finest in music history.

Thus far, my favorite Finnish symphony composers (in addition to Sibelius) have proven to be Joonas Kokkonen (via the Oramo, Berglund, & Kamu recordings)--whose 4 Symphonies I rate highly (though they may be an acquired taste), Einar Englund--whose 7 Symphonies I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet (if interested, see YT links below), Einojuhani Rautavaara, Helvi Leiviskä, Pehr Henrik Nordgren, Leevi Madetoja, & Paavo Heininen. I've yet to get to Kalevi Aho, Tauno Marttinen, and Erkki Melartin. Nor have I delved into Aulus Sallinen's symphonies in any real depth, though I have bought the CPO box set, so I plan to at some point. I'm also wondering whether Magnus Lindberg will be composing symphonies in the future--he hasn't yet, but I hope he does. Another student of Rautavaara & Heininen's, Harri Vuori, has composed two symphonies to date (see links below), & Vuori's music interests me, among current Finnish composers:

Harri Vuori:

Lintu, Symphony no. 1: 



Pirilä, Symphony no. 1:

















Pirilä, Symphony no. 2: 




Joonas Kokkonen:

Oramo, Symphony no. 1: 



Oramo, Symphony no. 2: 



Oramo, Symphonies nos. 3 & 4: 



Berglund, Symphonies nos. 1 & 4: 



Kamu, Symphony no. 4 (frustratingly, it has never been released on CD, only LP): 




Pehr Henrik Nordgren:

Oramo, Symphonies nos. 3 & 5: 



Kangas, Symphony no. 7: 



Kangas, Symphony no 4: 




Einar Englund:

Symphony no. 1 "War": 



Symphony no. 2 "The Blackbird": 



Symphony no. 3 "Barbarossa": 



Symphony no. 4 "Nostalgic": 



Symphony no. 5 "Fennica": 



Symphony no. 6 "Aphorism": 



Symphony no. 7 (untitled):


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Thanks again for everyone's recommendations, which are the ones I'm listing! Finland was chosen for its high reputation in composition, and for the feeling that Finnish orchestral composers (apart from Sibelius) are neglected at least in North America. Thinking in terms of _dates of birth_ and _quarter centuries_, I'll begin with comments on selected orchestral works (including concertos) by the composers below, born 1875-1899. This thread is intended to be selective not comprehensive as the Neglected German/Austrian Composers one was. I'll start with a selection from the following composers and welcome comments on them as well as on other composers and works.

*Finnish orchestral composers born 1875-1899*:

*Erkki Melartin 1875 
Selim Palmgren 1878 (concertos)	
Toivo Kuula 1883 
Leevi Madetoja 1887 
Väinö Raitio 1891 
Aarre Merikanto 1893*

Will we answer the OP? *joen_cph* has already named *Väinö Raitio* and* Per Henrik Nordgren* as being "under-recorded."


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Roger Knox said:


> Thanks again for everyone's recommendations, which are the ones I'm listing! Finland was chosen for its high reputation in composition, and for the feeling that Finnish orchestral composers (apart from Sibelius) are neglected at least in North America. Thinking in terms of _dates of birth_ and _quarter centuries_, I'll begin with comments on selected orchestral works (including concertos) by the composers below, born 1875-1899. This thread is intended to be selective not comprehensive as the Neglected German/Austrian Composers one was. I'll start with a selection from the following composers and welcome comments on them as well as on other composers and works.
> 
> *Finnish orchestral composers born 1875-1899*:
> 
> ...


If you extended by one year of birth, you could also include Uuno Klami (1900-61) whose music does deserve wider recognition outside of Finland. Or are you saving him for a 20th-century selection?


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Melartin! I love those six symphonies - tuneful, well orchestrated, exciting. Would make nice additions (or replacement) to some of the tired, worn-out standard repertoire. Wish scores/parts were easier to get.


I'm starting with *Erkki Melartin (b. 1875)*. Is there a particular reason why getting scores and parts is difficult.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

CnC Bartok said:


> If you extended by one year of birth, you could also include Uuno Klami (1900-61) whose music does deserve wider recognition outside of Finland. Or are you saving him for a 20th-century selection?


Previously I found that setting a rigid time boundary was one clear, factual way of grouping composers for learning purposes. So the next group would be 1900-1924, then 1925-1949, 1950-74, 1975-1999. So *Uuno Klami (b. 1900)* will certainly be in the 1900-1924 group and added as deserving wider recognition out of Finland. And I invite you to "make a case" for him too!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I think I might be able to manage that! However, I would say I'd be making warmer cases for other individuals. That said, the handful of works of his I know are actually significantly better than average....


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

This may be slightly off topic, but over the past several days I've been keenly listening to a new arrival in my collection: a 6 CD Ondine box set of live chamber performances from the Kuhmo Festival, entitled "A Century of Finnish Chamber Music". There are Finnish composers represented in this collection that were brand new to me, as well as chamber works that I didn't know by composers that I was already familiar with. The performances are generally first rate throughout, & played by today's top Finnish musicians, as well as musicians from outside of Finland, such as the Danel Quartet, & Gryphon Trio.

Here's a Presto Classical link to the set and it's contents, which you may find useful towards exploring the symphonies by composers not already mentioned on the thread: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7947248--a-century-of-finnish-chamber-music

For example, yesterday in my car I listened twice! to a fascinating "Sonatina for 2 Violins" by Finnish composer Erkki Salmenhaara. I later realized that I'd previously heard a Wind Quintet by Salmenhaara on a BIS recording & was similarly impressed, but had since forgotten his name (https://www.amazon.com/Mortensen-Qu...bis+salmenhaara&qid=1573755045&s=music&sr=1-1). Well, I won't be making that mistake again. Salmenhaara, who died in 2002, appears to have been an unusually gifted composer, & I see that he composed at least five symphonies! and no less than conductor Paavo Berglund recorded one (or more?) of them for the Finlandia label. So, I'm now looking forward to hearing more of Salmenhaara's music.

Here's his Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erkki_Salmenhaara

& a selection of works by Salmenhaara that I found on You Tube (but haven't listened to yet):

Symphonies 2, 3, 4: 



Symphony no. 5: 




Orchestral works: 




Sonatina for 2 Violins: 



Wind Quintet: 




Yet, I've been impressed by nearly all of the music in this Ondine set, and equally surprised by the consistently high quality of it. Other interesting discoveries have included Erkki Melartin's String Trio, Op. 133--which is a very imaginative piece, a massive (in length) Piano Trio by Toivo Timoteus Kuula (1883-1918), who studied privately with Sibelius, and Paavo Heininen's fascinating String Quintet, Op. 78:

Melartin, String Trio, Op. 133:

















Kuula, Piano Trio, Op. 7: 




Heininen, String Quintet, Op. 78:













Lastly, I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention an 'introductory' CD series that was formerly released by the now defunct Finlandia label, called "Meet the Composer", which is comprised of reissued Finlandia recordings in '2 for 1' discount CD sets of representative music by a wide array of Finnish composers: such as Aarre Merikanto, Selim Palmgren, Magnus Lindberg, Heikki Sarmanto, Tauno Marttinen, Einojuhani Rautavaara, Jukka Linkola, Jouni Kaipainen, Einar Englund, Leevi Madetoja, Aulis Sallinen, Joonas Kokkonen, Uuno Klami, Erik Bergman, Pehr Henrik Nordgren, etc. The series is well worth seeking out, if you can find the sets at a reasonable price. (I expect these are the type of CDs that used to end up in discount bins, if those sort of stores still exist...).


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

For me, at this point I'm happy to be able to recognize more names of these chamber music composers than I would have a week ago -- thanks in part to your previous links for Finnish symphonic music. Always appreciate and am inspired by your posts, Josquin13, they set a standard unmatched here.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Roger, that's very kind of you to say, and I appreciate it.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Very much inspired by this thread I have returned to my collection of various works by Madetoja and Melartin, loaded them on to my I pod and about to listen over the next few days.

Already reminded just how enjoyable Madetoja can be (Sakari et al on Chandos) and both composers about to accompany me on an early morning walk...….

Thanks to all the previous posts.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

jim prideaux said:


> Already reminded just how enjoyable Madetoja can be (Sakari et al on Chandos) and both composers about to accompany me on an early morning walk...….


I've now listened to *Erkki Melartin's* Symphonies 1-3 (1902, 1904, 1907) from the set by the Tampere Philharmonic Orchestra/Leonard Grin, and am very impressed by the performances and recording. Also I'm sad upon having found out the partial answer to my question in post #17 about getting scores and parts. Melartin's symphonic music was unpublished for a very long time and much Erkki-Melartin-Society-supported editorial work has gone into into producing performance-ready scores, which might well still be expensive or unavailable. Anyway, all three are IMO excellent works with appealing melodies, Finnish folk-music influences and magical creation of mood. As for remediating the neglect of his work, I'll start with hearing Symphs. 4-6!

Re listening: there are "outdoorsy" passages in Melartin that do suggest getting out for a walk!


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Madetoja-Symphonies 1 and 2....Sakari and the Iceland S.O. on Chandos….

wonderful!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

^^^ I await your response to the 3rd Symphony. I adore it!!


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ I await your response to the 3rd Symphony. I adore it!!


Have had the Sakari Chandos collection for a while and have returned to it as a result of this thread.....it has always been the 1st and 2nd that have impressed me the most nut this morning I am concentrating on the 3rd.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ I await your response to the 3rd Symphony. I adore it!!


I did love the 3rd Symphony by *Erkki Melartin*. Unfortunately life has intervened and for now I don't have enough listening time to do justice to this thread. Also am cutting back on posting in other areas of TalkClassical.

But please, if people can continue this thread on Finnish orchestral composers that would be wonderful!


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