# Round 3: "Come in quest'ora bruna". Freni, Gheorghiu, de los Angeles



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

See links below. I am entering Freni twice in the contest as people criticized the sound of her selection Shaughnessy helped me find a good one.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't know WHY this site won't let me cue up pieces! If you want to get to the aria for Gheorghiu go to 2:20 and DLA go to 2:40. Sorry. I try to keep the time down for your listening.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

For me this one was easy. As much as I appreciate the stalwart offering of VDLA I do not find her voice as beautiful as I do the other two.
Freni's rendtition was, as usual, beautifully executed, but those vulnerable throat tones that are owned by La Draculette are incredibly alluring and her voice is immediately recognizable to me. Gheorghiu gets the crown in this house.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> For me this one was easy. As much as I appreciate the stalwart offering of VDLA I do not find her voice as beautiful as I do the other two.
> Freni's rendtition was, as usual, beautifully executed, but those vulnerable throat tones that are owned by La Draculette are incredibly alluring and her voice is immediately recognizable to me. Gheorghiu gets the crown in this house.


I was not prepared for how gorgeous Gheorghiu's version was. I wish her last name was not such a chore for me to spell LOL.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I can appreciate the fresh loveliness of Mirella Freni's voice as heard in early recordings such as her _L'Amico Fritz_ with Pavarotti, but I have to say that I've never found her particularly interesting. The freshness didn't last forever, and I've ignored her later work, of which this performance strikes me as an example. It seems loud and a bit effortful on top, where the vibrato has slowed perceptibly, and she thus sounds less sensitive musically than she really is. Besides being past her best vocally, she's idiomatic but ordinary, and I hear nothing to prompt a repeat listening.

Gheorghiu is not ordinary, and if her precise way of articulating notes brings Callas to mind she at least chooses an interesting model. It's all a bit contained and perhaps overdeliberate - a quality I've often observed in her singing - and I miss a greater sense of freedom and spontaneity, but she keeps me wanting to hear what follows, which is requirement number one in making music. The voice itself is distinctive in color and seems in fine condition.

I want to like VDLA in this even more than I do. I say "even" because she sings with her usual intelligence and sensitivity, and her voice has its usual lovely purity. But the relentless purity is the problem; I simply want a little more depth and body to the tone, and perhaps some darker shading, some chiaroscuro to relieve the insistent brightness of the sound. I just can't feel that this sort of "nice girl" sound works as well in Verdi as it does in Puccini, Massenet or Gounod.

In terms of both vocal timbre and musical shaping, its Gheorghiu who most engages me here.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I’m not fond of de Los Angeles and both she and Freni sound uncomfortable in their respective top registers - Verdi was cruel giving them those exposed notes. Gheorghiu’s studio recording finds her in good voice and she’s my pick mostly because Freni was not in top form for her take.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I can appreciate the fresh loveliness of Mirella Freni's voice as heard in early recordings such as her _L'Amico Fritz_ with Pavarotti, but I have to say that I've never found her particularly interesting. The freshness didn't last forever, and I've ignored her later work, of which this performance strikes me as an example. It seems loud and a bit effortful on top, where the vibrato has slowed perceptibly, and she thus sounds less sensitive musically than she really is. Besides being past her best vocally, she's idiomatic but ordinary, and I hear nothing to prompt a repeat listening.
> 
> Gheorghiu is not ordinary, and if her precise way of articulating notes brings Callas to mind she at least chooses an interesting model. It's all a bit contained and perhaps overdeliberate - a quality I've often observed in her singing - and I miss a greater sense of freedom and spontaneity, but she keeps me wanting to hear what follows, which is requirement number one in making music. The voice itself is distinctive in color and seems in fine condition.
> 
> ...


You wrote what I wanted to say but was not as gifted at doing so as you, especially the "purity" of VDLA's voice and the uninteresting quality of Freni, at least to me.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh! Now we're talking! I will listen later and vote.

N.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

This version of VDLA is a remastered label authorized release without the noticeable hiss that you'll find in the recording used which was taped from the original LP.










Victoria de los Angeles - click on name to open YouTube page


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> This version of VDLA is a remastered label authorized release without the noticeable hiss that you'll find in the recording used which was taped from the original LP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I tried to use the one you sent me but when I wanted to share it wouldn't let me, darnit! I guess I could have tried just typing in the link but sometimes I sit at the back of the class 🤪


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Yes I tried to use the one you sent me but when I wanted to share it wouldn't let me, darnit! I guess I could have tried just typing in the link but sometimes I sit at the back of the class 🤪


It's cool - I lost track of what we've been doing over the course of the last two days - I don't quite understand the "sharing" part as all you have to do is just copy and paste the address that will be found at the top of your browser on the YouTube page which contains the video and place it right into your post.

Just copy and paste right into the post itself - Simple and straightforward without the headaches which come from "sharing".

I chose a sample that I didn't think that you were going to use just to demonstrate the procedure...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> It's cool - I lost track of what we've been doing over the course of the last two days - I don't quite understand the "sharing" part as all you have to do is just copy and paste the address that will be found at the top of your browser on the YouTube page which contains the video and place it right into your post.
> 
> I chose a sample that I didn't think that you were going to use just to demonstrate the procedure...


 I normally try to use the share feature where you can copy and share the video below the description of the song because I often like to cue it up but since this site won't let me do that of late I will start doing it the way you showed. Thanks.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I normally try to use the share feature where you can copy and share the video below the description of the song because I often like to cue it up but since *this site* *won't let me do that* of late I will start doing it the way you showed. Thanks.


Will no one rid us of this turbulent site?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I keep wondering why we've ignored Freni's version from the studio recording under Abbado, which, having been recorded in 1977, strikes me as almost ideal. Maybe it isn't on youtube. Anyway she sounds rather effortful in this version. I don't know the date, but I'm assuming it's quite a bit later than the Abbado recording.

De Los Angeles does sound relentlessly bright in the version you posted, which is an awful transfer. She sounds completely different if you follow the link Shaughnessy posted. You could almost be listening to a different recording, but unbelievably it is the same performance. To me, she sounds perfect for the role of the young Amelia/Maria.

I like Gheorghiu too and she sings the aria gloriously, but I feel she's a touch too sophisticated and I prefer De Los Angeles's purity and simplicity. It's VDLA for me, but only because the second link is so much better. I have the recording on CD, and this is much more as I remember it.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> *I keep wondering why we've ignored Freni's version from the studio recording under Abbado, which, having been recorded in 1977, strikes me as almost ideal. Maybe it isn't on youtube*.


There was kind of a steep learning curve for me when it came to searching for these arias - As I progressed, I learned more about how to do what I was attempting to do and was able to add more tricks to my search parameters and thus, from this point forward, the results should be significantly improved.

Searching for arias was probably one of the more difficult arts to master that I've encountered - It's a tough gig - Just ask SOF - He's certainly earned the respect that he's acquired - but I have a new arsenal of weapons at my disposal and I think the results will soon be evident .

Here's the version that I wish I would have found two days ago - The entire recording is available but I've yet to find a way to access the link which would list all of the videos under a single page - This is one of the rare times when I haven't been able to do this.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> There was a bit of a steep learning curve for me when it came to searching for these arias - As I progressed, I was able to add more tricks to my search parameters and from this point forward the results should be significantly improved.
> 
> Searching for arias was probably one of the more difficult arts to master that I've encountered - It's a tough gig - Just ask SOF - but I have a new arsenal of weapons at my disposal and I think the results will be evident -
> 
> Here's the version that I wish I would have found two days ago - The entire recording is available but I've yet to find a way to access the link which would list all of the videos under a single page - This is one of the rare times when I haven't been able to do this.


Quite a difference! It helps having Abbado conducting the La Scala orchestra as well.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Quite a difference! It helps having Abbado conducting the La Scala orchestra as well.


Some things defy even me - I still can't find a single page with all of the links lined up in order - DG recordings can be particularly problematical - but I was able to find something that someone may find of interest - 

It's a box set entitled "Verdi: Six Great Operas" - conducted by Abbado - It's out-of-print and only available as hideously expensive downloads but I was able to find a single page link featuring all of the recordings.

This Presto Music page lists the contents and performers -









Verdi: Six Great Operas


Verdi: Six Great Operas. DG: 4790379. Buy download online. Katia Ricciarelli (Aida), Plácido Domingo (Radamès), Elena Obraztsova (Amneris), Leo Nucci (Amonasro), Nicolai Ghiaurov (Ramfis), Ruggero Raimondi (Il Re di Egitto), Lucia Valentini-Terrani (Una Sacerdotessa) & Piero De Palma (Un...



www.prestomusic.com





And this is the link to the 193 selections which represent the entire label authorized contents -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n8ucC_wug4oNmbjqMZHTClExaE03IPSuk


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> There was a bit of a steep learning curve for me when it came to searching for these arias - As I progressed, I was able to add more tricks to my search parameters and from this point forward the results should be significantly improved.
> 
> Searching for arias was probably one of the more difficult arts to master that I've encountered - It's a tough gig - Just ask SOF - but I have a new arsenal of weapons at my disposal and I think the results will be evident .
> 
> Here's the version that I wish I would have found two days ago - The entire recording is available but I've yet to find a way to access the link which would list all of the videos under a single page - This is one of the rare times when I haven't been able to do this.


Now that sounds more like the Freni I remember!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Some things defy even me - I still can't find a single page with all of the links lined up in order - DG recordings can be particularly problematical - but I was able to find something that someone may find of interest -
> 
> It's a box set entitled "Verdi: Six Great Operas" - conducted by Abbado - It's out-of-print and only available as hideously expensive downloads but I was able to find a single page link featuring all of the recordings.
> 
> ...


It looks as if the set is still available as a download. However, I think only the *Macbeth *and *Simon Boccanegra *are essential, and the *Don Carlo *of interest because of it being in French and including just about all the music Verdi wrote for the opera, or at least all that was known when it was recorded. The *Aida *and *Falstaff *are disposable.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It looks as if the set is still available as a download. However, I think only the *Macbeth *and *Simon Boccanegra *are essential, and the *Don Carlo *of interest because of it being in French and including just about all the music Verdi wrote for the opera, or at least all that was known when it was recorded. The *Aida *and *Falstaff *are disposable.


As Shaughnessy and I learn how to work together better I think you will see an improvement in the selections for contests. Youtube doesn't always yield up it's treasures easily for me. He finds the gold veins better than me. I am going to stop using the "share" feature on Youtube as I no longer am able to cue up a number. I won't run into the problem of this site not posting an aria like happened on this one and I couldn't use his suggested link. I'm going to ask Art Rock about that.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> It's cool - I lost track of what we've been doing over the course of the last two days - I don't quite understand the "sharing" part as all you have to do is just copy and paste the address that will be found at the top of your browser on the YouTube page which contains the video and place it right into your post.
> 
> Just copy and paste right into the post itself - Simple and straightforward without the headaches which come from "sharing".
> 
> I chose a sample that I didn't think that you were going to use just to demonstrate the procedure...


Art Wolf told me about the Share feature which did work but won't. Now I must put in the time to cue up videos, which is a drag for everyone.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Art Wolf told me about the Share feature which did work but won't. Now I must put in the time to cue up videos, which is a drag for everyone.


Art Rock seems to have found a fix which cues up the videos - He's testing it now and it works - I'm sure he'll provide the follow-up which is one less headache.

I think I worked out most of the problems that I was encountering when trying to search for these arias without knowing which search parameters to use and you should see an improvement in the selections.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

VDLA. And her voice is pure but the lower register was to my ears both rich and warm, but not heavy. She makes more of the words than Freni. Her very timbre evokes the landscape in the text


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I only need to listen to the first line sung by De los Angeles and she wins by a whole marathon!

She is Amelia!

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It looks as if the set is still available as a download. However, I think only the *Macbeth *and *Simon Boccanegra *are essential, and the *Don Carlo *of interest because of it being in French and including just about all the music Verdi wrote for the opera, or at least all that was known when it was recorded. The *Aida *and *Falstaff *are disposable.


Interesting. I would say that the Simon Boccanegra is the only essential one with the Falstaff and Macbeth also being of interest. I agree about Don Carlos with Aida and Ballo being the disposable ones.

N.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> As Shaughnessy and I learn how to work together better I think you will see an improvement in the selections for contests. Youtube doesn't always yield up it's treasures easily for me. He finds the gold veins better than me. I am going to stop using the "share" feature on Youtube as I no longer am able to cue up a number. I won't run into the problem of this site not posting an aria like happened on this one and I couldn't use his suggested link. I'm going to ask Art Rock about that.


Would you let us know separately about the youtube tricks you learn ? I am sometimes forwarding videos to my mother, or to the discussions, when "someone is wrong on the internet".


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Would you let us know separately about the youtube tricks you learn ? I am sometimes forwarding videos to my mother, or to the discussions, when "someone is wrong on the internet".


The most helpful tip he turned me onto was using https://www.opera-arias.com/ because it will list all the artists that have done an aria, something Youtube is reluctant to divulge.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

As pleasant as Gheorghiu's voice is, I feel the results of this contest are a testament to the difference of recorded and live performance.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Gheorghiou is the only one here I heard live. I always admired her voice, but her acting as well. How she hides a restive diva and shows a fragile daisy-girl. 
But when I listened to Victoria de los Angeles, I couldn't vote for anyone else. I've acquired a new obsession.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ColdGenius said:


> Gheorghiou is the only one here I heard live. I always admired her voice, but her acting as well. How she hides a restive diva and shows a fragile daisy-girl.
> *But when I listened to Victoria de los Angeles, I couldn't vote for anyone else. I've acquired a new obsession.*












*Victoria de los Ángeles: The Voice of an Angel*

List of contents -









Victoria de los Ángeles: The Voice of an Angel


Victoria de los Ángeles: The Voice of an Angel. Warner Classics: 2173082. Buy download online. Victoria de los Ángeles (soprano), Jussi Björling (Rodolfo), Robert Merrill (Marcello), Carlo del Monte (Alfredo), Jussi Björling (Pinkerton), Mario Sereni (Sharpless), Nicolai Gedda (Faust), Boris...



www.prestomusic.com





Link to label authorized complete set of 165 recordings - 8 hours and 50 minutes -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nuJmRNQv8R07_6Slda1YFZS_V7blcqqVk



It makes for an excellent start...

*Groups & Artists*

Angeles, Victoria de los
Björling, Jussi
Christoff, Boris
Fischer-Dieskau, Dietrich
Gedda, Nicolai
Giaiotti, Bonaldo
Gobbi, Tito
Larrocha, Alicia de
Merrill, Robert
Mesplé, Mady
Moore, Gerald
Palma, Piero de
Schwarzkopf, Elisabeth
Sereni, Mario
Warren, Leonard


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