# The recorder in Bach's 4th Brandenburg Concerto



## Aurelian (Sep 9, 2011)

At 2:23 in this video:






The woman mentions the "echo flute", which I never heard of. My Dover score does not use this term.

At 2:53 on the right side you see this instrument being played.

I have never seen an instrument like this. Have you?


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

The term _Fiauti d'Echo_ is unique to the Fourth Brandenburg Concerto. As Sarah Jeffery scoffingly mentions, musicologist David Lasocki believes the echo flute might have been made by 'fastening together a loud and soft recorder'. He quotes a passage from John Hawkins' 'General History of Music' which mentions a musician known for playing on two flutes [recorders] at once. Anyway, there are lots of opinions about this instrument (see below) and no definitive answers.

http://www.gardane.info/immagini_link/fiauti_decho_controversy.pdf


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Aurelian said:


> At 2:23 in this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, she's delightful.






As for the _*flauti d'echo*_, it's in Bach's handwriting, so I'd venture to speculate that the Dover score is somewhat lacking. Of course, many editors over the centuries have taken their "learned" knowledge to make changes, omit things, add things, and even add pedal, phrasings, and dynamics to Bach's works, be they chamber, oratorio, or keyboard works.


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

pianozach said:


> Oh, she's delightful.


She has been instrumental in my progression while learning to play the recorder instruments, and is an excellent advocate for the much maligned little tube that can so easily turn into the thing of nightmares in the hands of an unmusical child.

The flauti d'echo problem is an interesting one. I can see why the soft/loud approach has been adopted because the recorder is very limited in its ability to produce dynamics in the traditional sense due to air pressure affecting pitch rather dramatically, and there is a lot of early baroque music with dynamic markings of alternating passages that are exactly the same other than p or f markings alternating from 'loud' to 'soft', and you have to come up with different solutions.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

thejewk said:


> She has been instrumental in my progression while learning to play the recorder instruments, and is an excellent advocate for the much maligned little tube that can so easily turn into the thing of nightmares in the hands of an unmusical child.
> 
> The flauti d'echo problem is an interesting one. I can see why the soft/loud approach has been adopted because the recorder is very limited in its ability to produce dynamics in the traditional sense due to air pressure affecting pitch rather dramatically, and there is a lot of early baroque music with dynamic markings of alternating passages that are exactly the same other than p or f markings alternating from 'loud' to 'soft', and you have to come up with different solutions.


I suck at the recorder. 
I just don't seem to be able to master the breath control. 
You simply cannot "strong-arm" a recorder. 
I was able to manage to become competent on the Flutophone though.


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

You learn something new every day. Never heard of a flutophone before, but I might get one to check it out at some point. 

I initially found the breath control tricky with the recorder until I found a comfortable posture and internalised the sort of diaphragm breathing that allowed me to take in a lot of air quickly and play longer between breaths. 

I'm no expert, and have been playing only for a year and a few months, so everything is still a learning process.


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