# Music by famous old composers for "extinct" instruments



## Perotin (May 29, 2012)

Do you know any pieces by older composers for unusual, out-of-use instruments. By older I mean pre 20th century composers, by extinct I mean either instruments, that were once common, but are no longer in use, like baroque instruments viola da gamba and oboe d'amore, or instruments, that were inovations in their time, but never became popular, like arpeggione. And try to attach youtube clip of a hip, if there is any.

Mozart: Adagio for glass harmonica






Haydn: Concerto for 2 lyras organizzatas






Haydn's baryton trios






And famous arpeggione sonata






Oh, and happy new yeeeaaaar!!! :cheers:


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

The lute of course !
Here, Dowland played by Nigel North :






The vihuela deserves some attention too, it's a lovely instrument. Here a very good vihuelist with Arianna Savall.

There are many other cool instruments from the guitar/lute family but I'll let others talk about them q:


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Perotin said:


> Mozart: Adagio for glass harmonica


That was like watching a chiropractor take a spin class.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mozart wrote his clarinet concerto for basset clarinet in A. Go try and find one.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Those instruments being around, they ain't extinct. The gamba isn't even close; that new music for it is lacking is a case of poor judgement.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

You haven't even lived 'til you attempt to play a samba on the gamba!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Couac Addict said:


> That was like watching a chiropractor take a spin class.


Ha! That's the best comment all year!


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Wagner tubas seemed to go out of fasion pretty quickly.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I'd never heard of a heckelphone, so how about Hindemith's:

Trio for viola, heckelphone (or tenor saxophone) and piano, Op. 47 (1928)...?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The original chamber instrumentation of Saint-Saens Carnival of the Animals uses the Glass Armonica, in the section "Aquarium"





Tchaikovsky's Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy was originally intended for Glass Armonica, but while the composer was working on it he visited the Pleyel showroom in Paris and was shown the about to be made public first ever Celeste -- he extracted a promise from Pleyel that he would have first and exclusive rights to premiere the instrument in the upcoming ballet. We 'lost' a glass Armonica part in a Tchaikovsky ballet, but initially, kept 'secret' until the premiere, I imagine the debut of the Celeste in Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy was a sensational surprise.

EDIT ADD: The Glass Armonica is not extinct, but the handful of working instruments there are make it a very rare instrument.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Albrechtsberger, who was (among other things) a teacher of Beethoven, wrote several Jew's harp concertos. The Jew's harp is still around, but never since that time in classical music SFAIK. If you listen to one of his concertos, the reason will be apparent.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Charles Ives used the Jews' Harp to memorable effect in some of his compositions.


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## Perotin (May 29, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Albrechtsberger, who was (among other things) a teacher of Beethoven, wrote several Jew's harp concertos. The Jew's harp is still around, but never since that time in classical music SFAIK. If you listen to one of his concertos, the reason will be apparent.


In my part of the world, this instrument is quite well known, because it was used in a very popular song from an equally popular serbian/yougoslavian comedy. Song is sung by two gypsies and accompanied by accordion and jew's harp. I guess you will experience culture shock after hearing this. :lol:


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Albrechtsberger, who was (among other things) a teacher of Beethoven, wrote several Jew's harp concertos. The Jew's harp is still around, but never since that time in classical music SFAIK. If you listen to one of his concertos, the reason will be apparent.


That is quite possibly the silliest thing I have ever heard.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Strauss calls for the oboe d'amore in his Sinfonia Domestica, and Berlioz's original scoring for the Symphonie Fantastique required ophecleides rather than tubas (which are a poor substitute for the effect he wanted).


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Bach used several different types of oboes for example, which modern orchestras don't allow for.

Oboe da caccia





Chalumeau


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Daddy Mozart did one of these, he's kind of famous.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ricola!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

For your consideration...


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

ArtMusic said:


> Bach used several different types of oboes for example, which modern orchestras don't allow for.


If memory serves, one if the Brandenburgs calls for a _flauti di echo_. Problem is: nobody knows what the hell that is.


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## Orpheus (Jul 15, 2012)

One of my favourite Vivaldi concertos is this charming, lively work, starring both Lute and Viola d'amore:






Or this radiant piece by Palestrina, featuring the surprisingly delicate early wind instrument, the Cornett:






The renaissance composer Kapsburger was a worthy and often strikingly original composer for instruments in the lute family. Here's some fine solo music for an instrument even rarer than the lute, for which he also composed extensively, the Theorbo:






The three-rowed triple harp was widely played in the baroque and might be considered the most authentic instrument for performing much harp music from that period, though it is now extremely rare except in traditional Welsh music. Here, however, is a performance of some Lully by Andrew Lawrence-King, a notable pioneer (or maybe reviver) of performing early music on the triple harp:






That will do for now


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

Do people actually use the oboe d'amore when it is performed? And does the Sinfonia Domestica use saxophones?



Mahlerian said:


> Strauss calls for the oboe d'amore in his Sinfonia Domestica, and Berlioz's original scoring for the Symphonie Fantastique required ophecleides rather than tubas (which are a poor substitute for the effect he wanted).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

spradlig said:


> Do people actually use the oboe d'amore when it is performed? And does the Sinfonia Domestica use saxophones?


Don't know, because I dislike the piece and don't go out of my way to listen to it, and yes.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

spradlig said:


> Do people actually use the oboe d'amore when it is performed? And does the Sinfonia Domestica use saxophones?


Yes!!! Or they'd better. If I catch anyone using Cor, they're in trouble. I've seen it live once and they had an Oboe d'amore. There is optional sax quartet in the finale but I can't imagine the option is taken very much if at all (hopefully...)

Strauss also used basset horn in operas and wind ensemble music and I think Stockhausen did too

Stravinsky's Threni is scored for a contrabass Sarrusophone instead of contrabassoon - (it's a metal double reed instrument). Threni probably doesn't get the performances it deserves (it's an intriguing piece) and I bet the sarrusphone is never used for it

More orchestras are using cimbasso for Verdi and some Puccini these days - it's like a valved contrabass trombone that's less "full" sounding than tuba and apparently what pit orchestras in Italy used to have back in the day. It makes for a more consistent blend in the low brass as they the cimbasso is cylindrical rather than conical like a tuba


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I love Bach's Concerto for Oboe d'amore! One of my favorite pieces!


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Bach used several different types of oboes for example, which modern orchestras don't allow for.
> 
> Oboe da caccia
> 
> ...


What pieces are those?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

dgee said:


> Stravinsky's Threni is scored for a contrabass Sarrusophone instead of contrabassoon - (it's a metal double reed instrument). Threni probably doesn't get the performances it deserves (it's an intriguing piece) and I bet the sarrusphone is never used for it.


It can actually be seen behind the tenor soloist in this video. It's certainly _heard_.
http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/file/stravinsky-festival-complete-sacred-works-0

(Threni begins at 6:00.)


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

brotagonist said:


> I'd never heard of a heckelphone, so how about Hindemith's:
> 
> Trio for viola, heckelphone (or tenor saxophone) and piano, Op. 47 (1928)...?


Another Hindemithian pioneering work is his Concertino for Trautonium and Strings 












It didn't really set the concert stage alight but it did have one later starring role of note. It played "the birds" in the Hitchcock film of the same name. Here's the man himself tinkling the electronic ivories.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I love Bach's Concerto for Oboe d'amore! One of my favorite pieces!


I don't think Bach wrote any surviving concertos for the oboe, d'amore or otherwise. If you're thinking of BWV 1060, that's an arrangement for oboe and violin of one of his double harpsichord concertos. Possibly a reconstruction of its original form. If this is wrong, hope somebody will point it out!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

It is rather interesting that some instruments, that were thought to be extinct, turned to just have been in a long eclipse, and there have been ever more authenticated sightings. The lute comes to mind. In fact, even the harpsichord used to be considered extinct until the the Baroque revival recreated large expanses of suitable habitat.


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## WavesOfParadox (Aug 5, 2012)

The octobass was never used much at all, although Berlioz wanted it to be.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

WavesOfParadox said:


> The octobass was never used much at all, although Berlioz wanted it to be.


If anyone built a real octaventral heebiephone, Berlioz would want to use that too. Preferably thirty of them.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I don't think Bach wrote any surviving concertos for the oboe, d'amore or otherwise. If you're thinking of BWV 1060, that's an arrangement for oboe and violin of one of his double harpsichord concertos. Possibly a reconstruction of its original form. If this is wrong, hope somebody will point it out!


That's not the piece I was referring too. The oboe concerto is in A and was originally a single harpsichord concerto.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

ahammel said:


> If memory serves, one if the Brandenburgs calls for a _flauti di echo_. Problem is: nobody knows what the hell that is.


He was referring to a flute hooked up via a microphone to a delay pedal. Bach truly was a genius to foresee this future advancement in music-making.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> That's not the piece I was referring too. The oboe concerto is in A and was originally a single harpsichord concerto.


Gotcha, thanks! That's from the BWV 1055. From JSBACH.org, on the 1055: "This concerto is a transcription from an oboe concerto, which has been lost. Reconstructed as Concerto for Oboe d'amore, Strings and Basso Continuo."

I think I have it somewhere, you inspire me to give it a listen!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Gotcha, thanks! That's from the BWV 1055. From JSBACH.org, on the 1055: "This concerto is a transcription from an oboe concerto, which has been lost. Reconstructed as Concerto for Oboe d'amore, Strings and Basso Continuo."
> 
> I think I have it somewhere, you inspire me to give it a listen!


It's one of Bach's happiest pieces. I have it with Heinz Holliger.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> It's one of Bach's happiest pieces. I have it with Heinz Holliger.


Mine is Cafe Zimmerman. Soloist is Antoine Torunczyk. Listening now.

Cannot -- repeat cannot -- beat Bach on a Sunday morning!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Either way, it's a wonderful piece.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> It can actually be seen behind the tenor soloist in this video. It's certainly _heard_.
> http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/file/stravinsky-festival-complete-sacred-works-0
> 
> (Threni begins at 6:00.)


Well I never! And what a festival too


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> He was referring to a flute hooked up via a microphone to a delay pedal. Bach truly was a genius to foresee this future advancement in music-making.


Ah, that explains the _Concerto for Keytar, Prepared Piano and Barbershop Quartet_ (BWV 33⅓) as well.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

BurningDesire said:


> He was referring to a flute hooked up via a microphone to a delay pedal. Bach truly was a genius to foresee this future advancement in music-making.


But then again, as with everything Bach did, that was old-fashioned technology at the time.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Albrechtsberger, who was (among other things) a teacher of Beethoven, wrote several Jew's harp concertos. The Jew's harp is still around, but never since that time in classical music SFAIK. If you listen to one of his concertos, the reason will be apparent.


Awwww, if only they had mics and amplification back then I bet the rep for the Jew's Harp (a mistaken and now common homonymic for "Juice Harp") could have soared to the heights, and we would have dozens of concerti for this great little instrument.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> I'd never heard of a heckelphone, so how about Hindemith's:
> 
> Trio for viola, heckelphone (or tenor saxophone) and piano, Op. 47 (1928)...?


Yes, the Heckelphone is a near cousin to the Hectorphone.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Its sad that instruments get left by the wayside, more out of the laziness of orchestras to actually follow the wishes of the artists they supposedly respect.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Heckelphone's essentially a bass oboe heard to effect most frequently in Saturn in The Planets. 

I'm a bit sad burningdesire thinks orchestras are being lazy and disrespectful, tho. Proper pro bands will generally go to great expense to get and practice heckelphones, oboes d'amore and other such odd contraptions but if it's contrabassoon or no Threni (and it might cost you $20k to hire and freight a sarrusophone and the associated player), I'll take the contra gladly


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I introduced the chalumeaux in an earlier post (same thread). Fascinating sound. Here is a double concerto.


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