# Mahler Symphonies Boxed Sets Packaging Quality



## starthrower

For those of you who own one or more of any of the available symphonic sets, I'm looking for some feedback on the packaging, sequencing, and overall presentation. I've read numerous reviews on a number of boxes, but hardly anyone mentions the actual contents.

I'm leaning towards one of the Bernstein sets, or maybe the Tennstedt box. And possibly a more recent set of recordings in modern sound. Thanks for any details!

PS I don't need any more opinions on the performances or interpretations. I've already read numerous reviews and threads.


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## JACE

Top to bottom, my favorite set is Kubelik's with the Bavarian Radio SO.

The packaging itself is nothing to write home about. It's basic. Minimal liner notes. CDs come individual heavy paper sleeves, and all ten CDs are housed in a slim cardboard box.

But the music is sublime.

Kubelik's not everyone's cup of tea, of course. His recordings have been called lightweight -- and he _doesn't_ go for super-heavy textures. But I LIKE that about his approach. As a result, there's a tremendous amount of inner detail, an almost chamber-like quality.

If I had to describe Kubelik's approach in one word, it would be "woodsy" or maybe "natural" -- as opposed to Berstein ("impetuous") or Klemperer ("monumental") or Horenstein ("fierce") or Tennstedt ("mystical").

That's probably more than you were looking for!  But I hope it helps.

EDIT: Just re-read you original post. If sound quality is a concern, you might want to look at the Tennstedt box instead of Kubelik's. Kubelik's sound isn't bad, but it's not great either.

If you do get the Tennstedt box, be sure to get the one with the "extra" live recordings. I think he's at his best outside the studio. His live M5 -- in that box -- is AWESOME.


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## Xaltotun

I have Bernstein / Sony. The box is rather pretty, with gold and bronze tones. A very good leaflet is included, with a great essay about Mahler by Bernstein. The disc sleeves are robust cardboard with pictures of Bernstein all over, which is a bit of overkill in my view. Still, they retain the beautiful colour scheme, and each Bernstein is different. Sequencing is good. We have:

Symphony 1 and the adagio of 10 in a single disc;
Symphony 2 on two discs, with the first one having (very interesting) interviews of people who played under Mahler's baton reminiscing about the man, and the first movement. The second disc has the remaining movements. I could see someone not liking this split-up;
Symphony 3 on two discs as well, with the first movement on one disc and the remaining ones on the other;
and all the remaining symphonies have their respective, single discs.
There's also Das Lied von der Erde included, on a single disc.

I love this box!


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## realdealblues

I have pretty much every Mahler cycle in existence...what exactly are you looking for or wondering about? 

Are you just looking for something with like a big booklet with essays about Mahler? Are you not wanting something with paper sleeves vs cardboard sleeves or jewel cases or something?


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## realdealblues

There's a few different Bernstein editions depending on what you are looking for. All of them are nice although the newer Sony ones (like many of Sony's newer large box sets) have cardboard sleeves for the double albums where the CD's pull out from the inside towards the spine which is annoying and sometimes difficult to get out. My Rubinstein box set is like that as well.

There's the Carnagie Hall Presents edition (which also includes Das Lied with Ludwig and Kollo as well as Mahler remembered CD from the old Mahler History Of The New York Philharmonic Box Set)
View attachment 55196


Then there's the newer one with the original jacket style covers (which does not include Das Lied or the Mahler Remembered)
View attachment 55197


There's the old DG box set with vocal works. Paper sleeves instead of Cardboard.
View attachment 55198


Those will give hopefully kind of give you an idea of what you're looking at. My recommendation would be for the Sony Carnagie Hall Edition because of the bonus Das Lied and Mahler Remembered CD's.

Bernstein did Symphonies 1 & 5 better on the later DG release although honestly his Sony 1st is still very well done. Symphony 5's main draw back is the timpanist got lost in the scherzo and the sound isn't as good as some of the others. Some argue the 2nd is better as well in the DG recording but I still like this earlier NY recording for the extra drive in the first movement. But symphonies 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 & 9 are all top the pile.

Some say Bernstein was too emotional and given to excess in his Mahler recordings and that his Mahler isn't the real Mahler, but I think that's a load of hooey. There's nothing in Bernstein's early Mahler recordings that doesn't lack justification going by what's on the printed page and Lenny paid far more attention to small details that Mahler gave above and beyond a bunch of other famous Mahler conductors.


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## starthrower

Thanks a lot for the detailed rundown on the Bernstein boxes. I was wondering what the differences were concerning the two Sony sets. I have two single CDs from the Bernstein Century series released in the 90s, but I read that the Carnegie Hall set had improved sound.

I'll probably get the DG recording of no. 5. I have the NYP version, and I really like that symphony.


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## starthrower

realdealblues said:


> I have pretty much every Mahler cycle in existence...what exactly are you looking for or wondering about?
> 
> Are you just looking for something with like a big booklet with essays about Mahler? Are you not wanting something with paper sleeves vs cardboard sleeves or jewel cases or something?


I just want a booklet with readable type. I don't want to spend money on a box set that only has cardboard sleeves with micro print and no booklet. And I know many of the cheap Sony boxes are like that.

Those gatefold sleeves with the disc openings toward the center are pretty stupid, but I guess they can't be avoided. I have one of those in the Bernstein original jacket box.


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## elgar's ghost

Like JACE, I have the Kubelik but mine is the early clunky and space-consuming 3 x double-sized jewel-case variety packed into a slipcase. The notes come in essay form: 'Mahler and His Time' (by Karl Schumann) and 'On the Interpretation of Mahler's Symphonies' (by Constantin Floris), and also include the texts. I'm assuming that the disc sequence is the same as the re-issue as all of the symphonies bar the 3rd fit onto one disc anyway so the first movement of the 10th shares a disc with the final movement of the 3rd.


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## realdealblues

starthrower said:


> Thanks a lot for the detailed rundown on the Bernstein boxes. I was wondering what the differences were concerning the two Sony sets. I have two single CDs from the Bernstein Century series released in the 90s, but I read that the Carnegie Hall set had improved sound.
> 
> I'll probably get the DG recording of no. 5. I have the NYP version, and I really like that symphony.


No problem. Sounds like a plan 

Yes, the sonics are a little better on a few of the symphonies in the Carnagie Hall box. I'd also recommend getting Lenny's Das Lied Von Der Erde on the Decca label with James King and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.

View attachment 55262


Some people don't like the Tenor/Baritone combination but this recording is my desert island choice for Das Lied Von Der Erde. The Vienna Philharmonic+Lenny+Decca's Sonics is truly one of the greatest combinations I've ever heard. I wasn't a huge fan of Das Lied Von Der Erde until I bought this recording and I had several famous/classic recordings before I got this one. After I heard it I think I listened to it every night when I was going to sleep for about a full year. It's in my top 10 favorite classical albums of all time.


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## starthrower

I love the Boulez DG recordings of Mahler's lieder. I'm not sure if Das Lied Von Erde is something I'll enjoy. I listened briefly to a live version on YouTube, and the vocal style is more extroverted and forceful. But I have no idea what the entire work is like.


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## realdealblues

elgars ghost said:


> I'm assuming that the disc sequence is the same as the re-issue as all of the symphonies bar the 3rd fit onto one disc anyway so the first movement of the 10th shares a disc with the final movement of the 3rd.


Yes, the reissue that JACE has is the same track listing. I do miss the earlier set that you have. I used to love double jewel case sets but now with space being a premium I've had to sell and re-purchase many items. I now have the "Kubelik Symphony Edition" box set.

View attachment 55263


Having Kubelik's Beethoven, Dvorak, Mahler & Schumann cycles in one box is just too good of a deal. I would not want to be without his Mahler, Dvorak or Beethoven cycles. His Schumann is excellent but I could probably get by without it if I had too. Luckily I don't have too though.


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## realdealblues

starthrower said:


> I love the Boulez DG recordings of Mahler's lieder. I'm not sure if Das Lied Von Erde is something I'll enjoy. I listened briefly to a live version on YouTube, and the vocal style is more extroverted and forceful. But I have no idea what the entire work is like.


It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's worth hearing Mahler's orchestral music even if you tune out the singing. The last song is 30 minutes long and obviously there isn't singing going on the entire time. Mahler just wrote some gorgeous themes in Das Lied. Like I said, I wasn't a big fan until I got that particular recording. It just changed everything for me.

I think it's on Spotify if you can listen on there.


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## starthrower

Will give it a listen, thanks! I think the music on the Anne Sophie Von Otter DG recording is fantastic! Mostly brass and winds accompaniment, with some percussion, harp, and occasional strings.


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## JACE

It took me a long time to find my way into _Das Lied von der Erde_ too.

But now it's one of my favorite compositions. (Not just by Mahler, but by anyone.)


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## starthrower

I took blues advice and listened to the all male version of Das Lied, and I like the sound of this. I didn't care too much for the Israel Philharmonic version. maybe it's the female singer, who sounds rather labored. Is that the one included in the box set?

There is some interesting rehearsal footage on YouTube. And it's also fascinating to listen to Bernstein expound on this work. When you hear Bernstein talk about a piece, you realize how deep his understanding goes, which lays to waste the assumption that he's all ego and emotion. It's nonsense.


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## realdealblues

starthrower said:


> I took blues advice and listened to the all male version of Das Lied, and I like the sound of this. I didn't care too much for the Israel Philharmonic version. maybe it's the female singer, who sounds rather labored. Is that the one included in the box set?
> 
> There is some interesting rehearsal footage on YouTube. And it's also fascinating to listen to Bernstein expound on this work. When you hear Bernstein talk about a piece, you realize how deep his understanding goes, which lays to waste the assumption that he's all ego and emotion. It's nonsense.


Yes, the version that comes in that box set is the Israel Philharmonic version with Christa Ludwig. That's why I recommended picking up that Decca recording separately. You can usually find it new from an amazon seller or something for like $8. I'm in the minority that prefers the male singer, but I just think it works and balances better overall with the Baritone vocalist. I can listen to female singers in the work, but I just think this particular recording has the most impact of any of the probably 50 recordings I currently own.

Lenny was an amazing man. He was intelligent, articulate and he loved to teach and discuss music. He did make the comment once (paraphrasing here) that Mahler could have never finished the 10th symphony because he "said everything in the 9th" kind of a deal, which I don't really buy. Had Mahler lived I have no doubt he would have finished the 10th, but none the less, Lenny was a wealth of information. DG released this DVD that's pretty good as well if you're interested.

View attachment 55342


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## starthrower

I could listen to Bernstein talk all day. As you mentioned, he was very intelligent, articulate, and knowledgeable. And of course he had the love and passion. He lived and breathed music.

Many years ago I read a biography that painted the older Bernstein as a pathetic, drug addicted egomaniac that was desperately seeking recognition for his "serious" classical works. It kind of turned me off to that writer.


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## starthrower

Personal anecdote here:

My cousin Linda, a graduate of Eastman School of Music, and a very talented vocalist, got to work with Bernstein in the 1970s during the Chichester Psalms rehearsals. She said it was like being in the same room with a Beethoven or Mozart. An experience of a lifetime working with one of the geniuses of the 20th century.


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## Mahlerian

starthrower said:


> Many years ago I read a biography that painted the older Bernstein as a pathetic, drug addicted egomaniac that was desperately seeking recognition for his "serious" classical works. It kind of turned me off to that writer.


Would that be Joan Peyser? She's infamous for writing gossipy biographies that focus on psychoanalysis and the like; her book on Boulez seems to claim that he took out repressed sexual feeling in the violence of his early music.


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## starthrower

I believe it was Meryle Secrest.


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## Markbridge

starthrower said:


> I took blues advice and listened to the all male version of Das Lied, and I like the sound of this. I didn't care too much for the Israel Philharmonic version. maybe it's the female singer, who sounds rather labored. Is that the one included in the box set?


I cut my teeth on the Bernstein/King/Fischer-Dieskau Das Lied and it is still my top favorite. However, I do suggest you check out the Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig recording as well. It was one of the few stereo recordings of Wunderlich and features a younger Christa Ludwig. I think it's safe to say that the Bernstein and the Klemperer recordings are probably considered to be in the top five recordings of the Das Lied.


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## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> There's a few different Bernstein editions depending on what you are looking for. All of them are nice although the newer Sony ones (like many of Sony's newer large box sets) have cardboard sleeves for the double albums where the CD's pull out from the inside towards the spine which is annoying and sometimes difficult to get out. My Rubinstein box set is like that as well.
> 
> There's the Carnagie Hall Presents edition (which also includes Das Lied with Ludwig and Kollo as well as Mahler remembered CD from the old Mahler History Of The New York Philharmonic Box Set)
> View attachment 55196
> 
> 
> Then there's the newer one with the original jacket style covers (which does not include Das Lied or the Mahler Remembered)
> View attachment 55197
> 
> 
> There's the old DG box set with vocal works. Paper sleeves instead of Cardboard.
> View attachment 55198
> 
> 
> Those will give hopefully kind of give you an idea of what you're looking at. My recommendation would be for the Sony Carnagie Hall Edition because of the bonus Das Lied and Mahler Remembered CD's.
> 
> Bernstein did Symphonies 1 & 5 better on the later DG release although honestly his Sony 1st is still very well done. Symphony 5's main draw back is the timpanist got lost in the scherzo and the sound isn't as good as some of the others. Some argue the 2nd is better as well in the DG recording but I still like this earlier NY recording for the extra drive in the first movement. But symphonies 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 & 9 are all top the pile.
> 
> Some say Bernstein was too emotional and given to excess in his Mahler recordings and that his Mahler isn't the real Mahler, but I think that's a load of hooey. There's nothing in Bernstein's early Mahler recordings that doesn't lack justification going by what's on the printed page and Lenny paid far more attention to small details that Mahler gave above and beyond a bunch of other famous Mahler conductors.


Another nice Bernstein Mahler box set. There are 12 disks so the one item in the stack with no writing on the edge must be a booklet.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Another nice Bernstein Mahler box set. There are 12 disks so the one item in the stack with no writing on the edge must be a booklet.


Did it arrived yet?


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Did it arrived yet?


Not yet. Tracking says it arrived at origin facility two days ago. Meanwhile I am ripping the 40 Mendelssohn disks as that set arrived yesterday.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Not yet. Tracking says it arrived at origin facility two days ago. Meanwhile I am ripping the 40 Mendelssohn disks as that set arrived yesterday.


Keeps you of the streets and out of danger.


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Keeps you of the streets and out of danger.


I am in danger of going mad with so much great music in front of me. Where to start, where to go next. A million decisions to make. Need a much bigger MP3 player capacity. :lol:


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I am in danger of going mad with so much great music in front of me. Where to start, where to go next. A million decisions to make. Need a much bigger MP3 player capacity. :lol:


If these are your biggest problems................. you are a lucky man .


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## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> Another nice Bernstein Mahler box set. There are 12 disks so the one item in the stack with no writing on the edge must be a booklet.


I had that set for many years. It served me very well.


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## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> I had that set for many years. It served me very well.


Ripping them right now. Looking forward to many pleasurable hours of listening.


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## SixFootScowl

The Bernstein Mahler set arrived today. Was a little disappointed because it was not as described (Like New) and the disks are all scuffed and/or scrached some, but all of them did rip to MP3 and I sent a complaint to the seller. The slip cases of original jackets are extra sturdy and in like new condition. 

I renumbered some of the tracks to get all the symphonies into one folder each. There is a movement of symphony 5 and part of symphony 8 that are live (besides the full versions in studio tracks). The other extras are stuff I already have and while I like Janet Baker, I already have the Kindertotenlieder with Waltraud Meier, whom I like better on this. 

I have listened to the Shipway Mahler 5 about 9 times since last week, so I am going to start the Bernstein set right now with symphony 1, which is the one I heard live last October.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> The Bernstein Mahler set arrived today. Was a little disappointed because it was not as described (Like New) and the disks are all scuffed and/or scratched some, but all of them did rip to MP3 and I sent a complaint to the seller. The slip cases of original jackets are extra sturdy and in like new condition.
> 
> I renumbered some of the tracks to get all the symphonies into one folder each. There is a movement of symphony 5 and part of symphony 8 that are live (besides the full versions in studio tracks). The other extras are stuff I already have and while I like Janet Baker, I already have the Kindertotenlieder with Waltraud Meier, whom I like better on this.
> 
> I have listened to the Shipway Mahler 5 about 9 times since last week, so I am going to start the Bernstein set right now with symphony 1, which is the one I heard live last October.


Have a wonderful experience trough the world of Mahler.


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Have a wonderful experience trough the world of Mahler.


I am. Quite I am. This is thrilling and I still have 7 I have never ever heard before. Funny thing. I remember my dad was always a big Beethoven fan, but I also seem to remember him recommending Mahler to me.


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