# Looking for Manfred Symphony recording recommendations



## Revel

Hi Folks,

Been eavesdropping on these forums for some time now. I'm just a listener, not a professional and not someone with a golden ear that can put down his impressions with great insight & adequate vocabulary.

I've decided it was time to register & post...as I'm looking for a dramatic recording of Tchaikovsky's Manfred Symphony. Currently, I own the Litton on Virgin. UPC # 077775923025 (1992 with Bournemouth SO).

I find the Litton recording to be a bore... lacking build-up & drama. Passion is non-existent. Litton's version lacks the Romanticism I need in my Tchaikovsky.

I've heard a 1977 version with Roz conducting the CSO that can be found here: 



 and I like it much more, but the sound quality is a bit "off".

To hint at my tastes in general, I'm the type of guy that will usually choose Karajan (vigorous) over Bernstein (may be passionate... but in a slow, drawn out way that gets on my nerves)...but have found that often I will go with Russian conductors in regards to Tchaikovsky specifically. My "Go To" recording for Tchai 1 through 3 is Gergiev with the London SO on UPC # 822231171027 (recorded 2011) and for 4 through 6 my favorite is Mravinsky with the Leningrad PO on UPC # 028941974525 (recorded 1960).

Any & all recommendations are appreciated.


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## Pip

Although I am not a fan of Maazel, his version with the Vienna Philharmonic is one of the glories of the great FFSS recordings by Decca made in Vienna at the sadly missed sofiensaal.
Also great is the LSO and Andre Previn(still available on an EMI twofer). Can't go wrong with either.


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## joen_cph

Svetlanov, USSR StateSO.

Another interesting, very passionate one is Rozhdestvensky/Mos RSO, russian revelation (1965, limited sound).

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/jan99/manfred.htm


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## Marschallin Blair

joen_cph said:


> Svetlanov, USSR SO.
> 
> Another interesting, very passionate one is Rozhdestvensky/USSR SO, russian revelation (1965, limited sound).


(The 'like' is for Svetlanov the Slayer.)


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## realdealblues

I've easily got 40 cycles of Tchaikovsky Symphonies and I can tell you Bernstein's early recordings on Sony from the 1950's to the 1970's are some of the best. The only time Bernstein was really slow was when he got older. His early Tchaikovsky recordings were often times far more "vigorous" than Karajan's. Now Bernstein's Deutsche Grammophone Tchaikovsky recordings are a whole other matter and I would assume those are the ones you've heard and I can understand your reservation against them as they are an acquired taste.

To answer your question though, for Tchaikovky's Manfred Symphony I would go with Riccardo Muti. Actually, you can get his whole Tchaikovsky cycle with the Manfred Symphony for around $20 which includes all the famous overtures, etc. Muti blows Gergiev clean out of the water and is easily on par with Mravinsky for Symphonies 4-6. Eugene Ormandy also did a really good version of Manfred and again you can get his later cycle in a budget box set for around $20. But my overall recommendation based on your statements looking for more drama and passion and energy with better sound quality than Rozhdestvensky would be for the Riccardo Muti set.


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## Revel

Thanks to all for the replies and excellent recommendations. A soon as I saw joen_cph call out Svetlanov, I had a good feeling about it. I found an HD rip on youtube of the 1st movement here: 



 It is from '67 I believe and is with the USSR State Academic Symphony Orchestra. If this is the recording you had in mind, joen, it's as though you got inside my head. The audio is fantastic for 1967. It has an overall recording quality similar to the Mravisky 4 - 6 recordings from '60. Forward sounding horns and expressive strings. I am also intrigued by the Roz recommendation you give from '65. I will look for it.

Thanks again to all. For now, I'm going to look on ebay and amazon for a copy of the Svetlanov. I don't have a ton of loot to afford buying multiple interpretations of the same piece...so I will likely only buy the Svetlanov for now...as I know it's perfect for my taste. I will undoubtedly seek the rest of the recommendations on Youtube, and if they strike me hard enough to replace the Svetlanov...I will consider a purchase of those as well.


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## Becca

Muti & the Philharmonia on CD - can't say that I have ever warmed to Muti, but it is an interesting recording.
I also have the Rozhdestvensky/ Moscow Radio Symphony on vinyl - I think that will be my next vinyl->CD transfer project.


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## Marschallin Blair

Revel said:


> Thanks to all for the replies and excellent recommendations. A soon as I saw joen_cph call out Svetlanov, I had a good feeling about it. I found an HD rip on youtube of the 1st movement here:
> 
> 
> 
> It is from '67 I believe and is with the USSR State Academic Symphony Orchestra. If this is the recording you had in mind, joen, it's as though you got inside my head. The audio is fantastic for 1967. It has an overall recording quality similar to the Mravisky 4 - 6 recordings from '60. Forward sounding horns and expressive strings. I am also intrigued by the Roz recommendation you give from '65. I will look for it.
> 
> Thanks again to all. For now, I'm going to look on ebay and amazon for a copy of the Svetlanov. I don't have a ton of loot to afford buying multiple interpretations of the same piece...so I will likely only buy the Svetlanov for now...as I know it's perfect for my taste. I will undoubtedly seek the rest of the recommendations on Youtube, and if they strike me hard enough to replace the Svetlanov...I will consider a purchase of those as well.












The Svetlanov _Manfred Symphony_ takes the cake for an emotional intensity worthy of Byron himself.

Check out the emotional wallop that he brings the strings and horns at 14:51+

No one besides Svetlanov plays it like that.


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## joen_cph

Yes, it´s the Svetlanov one I mentioned. Actually, it seems that the exact orchestra name (AcSO or SO) vary a bit according to sources;I was too lazy to bother with that detail.


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## Marschallin Blair

joen_cph said:


> Yes, it´s the Svetlanov one I mentioned. Actually, it seems that the exact orchestra name (AcSO or SO) vary a bit according to sources;I was too lazy to bother with that detail.


Oh, its is.

_;D_


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## Triplets

Svetlanovol hard to beat. In modern sound, I like the Pletnev on Pentatone . I also have Muti and Ormandy and they both are quite good.


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## Revel

At 16:10 it gets _particularly_ intense. Absolutely unreal. The Russians sure know how to do Tchaikovsky. Think I'll surf the net for Svetlanov version of Marche Slave. Hope one exists...


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## Marschallin Blair

Triplets;829601 said:


> Svetlanovol hard to beat. In modern sound, I like the Pletnev on Pentatone . I also have Muti and Ormandy and they both are quite good.


Well, for what its worth: I daresay if you love the incandescence of the Svetlanov, then you'll be less than enthralled by the soporific Pletnev and the par-for-the-course Ormandy and Muti.


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## Marschallin Blair

Triplets said:


> Svetlanovol hard to beat. In modern sound, I like the Pletnev on Pentatone . I also have Muti and Ormandy and they both are quite good.


I find the incandescence of the Svetlanov unapproachable, myself; but the soporific Pletnev and the par-for-the-course Muti and Ormandy just bore me.

- Since you didn't ask.

_;D_


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## ptr

Yea, Svetlanov is the man, I personally favour his live Canyon release (Tokyo) to his earlier Melodiya...










There's also a live release on Testament with BPO...










I don't like it as much, from the web:


> It is astonishing and hard to explain why it was that Yevgeny Svetlanov found his way to the Berlin Philharmonic only quite late in his career, at the age of sixty. It was 1989, a year so very eventful for the orchestra (Herbert von Karajan resigned and died in the summer; the orchestra chose Claudio Abbado as its new principal conductor; its members first officially guested in East Berlin with James Levine; and, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, when Daniel Barenboim performed a moving concert for the citizens of the German Democratic Republic) that the Russian first came to the Philharmonic in March: it would remain his only encounter with this ensemble.
> 
> Svetlanov's widow Nina wrote the following recollections of the Berlin performance. They show the outstanding importance that the conductor's sole encounter with the Berlin Philharmonic had for him: Evgeny Svetlanov toured Germany a lot with his orchestra, The Russian State Symphony Orchestra (ex USSR Academic State Symphony Orchestra). But he would stubbornly refuse to accept invitations from German orchestras such as the Bayerischer Rundfunk, Hamburg, Cologne and Berlin Radio orchestras among others. His motivation was very clear - "as long as I am not invited to the Berlin Philharmonic, no matter the quality of all the others, I will not go". There was nothing to be done. Each great artist has his own principals and it was totally impossible to convince him to do otherwise.
> 
> Then, finally, the invitation came. Evgeny Svetlanov was very pleased with the choice of repertoire, especially with Tchaikovsky's Manfred. Usually promoters asked him to perform Tchaikovsky's Symphonies Nos.4, 5 or 6 when he was on tour abroad. The concert was a big success and was followed by long applause from both orchestra and public. He was very happy. Back in the artists' room he welcomed all those who wanted to greet him. After which he quietly said to me - "I am so tired, let's go back to the hotel". After a while, when I closed the door and the Maestro started changing, we heard a persistent knock on the door. He did not wish to be disturbed. Someone kept on knocking. When I opened the door, we saw the director of the Berlin Philharmonic who looked pre-occupied and who explained to us that the public was still there, the hall was still full and there was a standing ovation that would not end. Evgeny Svetlanov, who was already dressed in his coat with an umbrella in his hands, came out on the stage immediately. He saw the audience standing and screaming, greeting him with endless applause. He deeply bowed and stretched out his arms asking the public to calm down. And when the commotion died down he said, in German, that he was extremely happy to get this kind of welcome. "As long as I live, I will never forget this evening".


/ptr


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## Marilyn

I have this recording with Petrenko and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, which is very good









but I' m looking to aquire Jurowski's recording with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.


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## Celloman

Chailly with Concertgebouw

This is my only recording. It's dark and Russian when it needs to be, but Chailly is sensitive with the lighter parts.


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## JACE

I'm late to the party...

But I will say that I'm with joen_cph and MB on this.

Svetlanov on Melodiya is the one to have.

EDIT:
I have this recording on vinyl. But I just did some poking around, and it turns out that Svetlanov's set of Tchaikovsky's symphonies -- including Manfred -- were reissued by Melodiya about six months ago.










I'm just sayin'.


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## Marschallin Blair

JACE said:


> I'm late to the party...
> 
> But I will say that I'm with joen_cph and MB on this.
> 
> Svetlanov on Melodiya is the one to have.
> 
> EDIT:
> I have this recording on vinyl. But I just did some poking around, and it turns out that Svetlanov's set of Tchaikovsky's symphonies -- including Manfred -- were reissued by Melodiya about six months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just sayin'.


. . . and they're_ fantastic_- performance wise.

I'd go with the Warner box set first though, if you were to get only one. The Melodiya performances are awesome- but the Warner is almost as great, but with a vastly superior sonic 'punch' to them.


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## Guest

Is this one uncut?


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## joen_cph

Re-heard the Rozhdestvensky I mentioned, but it is not better than Svetlanov.


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## Revel

Kontrapunctus said:


> Is this one uncut?


Kontrapunctus, Just to let you know. A few days ago, I received the Melodiya CD you posted the cover picture of. It is the same performance shown in the Youtube video earlier in this thread, from 1967. The audio is better on the Youtube video than it is on the disc. The Manfred sounds a little bit like a crumpled cassette tape (I hope that makes sense) on small portions here & there. Not too bad. But during crescendos, the sound breaks up a bit, especially if bass is involved. I tried the disc on 3 separate CD players...utilizing 2 different sets of headphones. The performance is tops, but the audio is not perfect

Makes me wonder if the Youtube video is taken from another transfer or re-master.

The youtube site belongs to #StateAcademicSymphonyOrchestra. Maybe they have the ultimate transfer in their archives, I don't know.

Just wanted to gives you a heads up. Don't expect pristine audio.


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## Guest

Revel said:


> Kontrapunctus, Just to let you know. A few days ago, I received the Melodiya CD you posted the cover picture of. It is the same performance shown in the Youtube video earlier in this thread, from 1967. The audio is better on the Youtube video than it is on the disc. The Manfred sounds a little bit like a crumpled cassette tape (I hope that makes sense) on small portions here & there. Not too bad. But during crescendos, the sound breaks up a bit, especially if bass is involved. I tried the disc on 3 separate CD players...utilizing 2 different sets of headphones. The performance is tops, but the audio is not perfect
> 
> Makes me wonder if the Youtube video is taken from another transfer or re-master.
> 
> The youtube site belongs to #StateAcademicSymphonyOrchestra. Maybe they have the ultimate transfer in their archives, I don't know.
> 
> Just wanted to gives you a heads up. Don't expect pristine audio.


Oh, I know. In an odd way, sometimes the raw sound contributes to the intensity! I should have my copy soon.


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## Joachim Raff

To throw a spanner in, Veronika Dudarova tends to get over looked. This is one great version.


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## Joachim Raff

Was this Tchaikovsky's greatest of works? Tchaikovsky in later life loathed it and threaten to destroy most of the score. He was his own greatest critic. I love this unfinished symphony like no other. My recommended recordings are:

1st Choice:







"Svetlanov is still to be surpassed"

2nd Choice:


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## Merl

Much as Manfred largely bores me rigid, this account at least makes Russian Pete's dreary piece listenable.


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## Joachim Raff

Becca said:


> Muti & the Philharmonia on CD - can't say that I have ever warmed to Muti, but it is an interesting recording.
> I also have the Rozhdestvensky/ Moscow Radio Symphony on vinyl - I think that will be my next vinyl->CD transfer project.


I agree with your opinion on Muti. Alot rave about his symphony cycle but I think it is consistent set with no exceptional individual performances. On the other hand his Manfred is something else


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## Animal the Drummer

Another vote for Svetlanov. Frankly this symphony isn't a favourite of mine but the white heat (in places) of Svetlanov's reading saves it for me.


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## Judith

Merl said:


> Much as Manfred largely bores me rigid, this account at least makes Russian Pete's dreary piece listenable.
> 
> View attachment 133092


I love this symphony and this one is my favourite recording


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## HenryPenfold

I think it's a terrific work, but I only came to that conclusion in recent years. For a very long time the only version I had was Jansons/Oslo. It is IMHO a rather dull performance and I never took to it as a work. Then I acquired the Jurowski LPO and it just seemed to come to life. That would be my top choice. I also would recommend Ashkenazy and the Philharmonia.


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## Geoff48

I agree that Svetlanov is a very exciting version but it is a typical example of his Tchaikovsky with blaring brass. To be fair I’d happily sacrifice polish for his involvement but I accept that many would not. Also the recording I own is by Melodya and whilst that is no problem for me it may be for some who see Tchaikovsky as a westernised composer rather that a true Russian. Sophisticated Svetlanov is not.
I also own an old mono recording by Paul Kletzki which was the way I got to know Manfred. Recorded in the early fifties it still sounds very acceptable and is more rounded perhaps. Yes I love the lack of sophistication of the Svetlanov but still get a great deal of pleasure from Kletzki. And it’s now available as part of a 10 disc membran milestones set at super-bargain price which also includes his Pathetique and the first three Sibelius Symphonies, Mahler’s ninth all well regarded in their day as well as a live Mendelssohn with Menuhin and Chopin concertos with Pollini. My one regret is that room wasn’t found for his Schehrezade with the Philharmonia. Well worth looking into and about £15 for the set. And Membran has improved their transfers considerably in recent years with considerably less reliance on cedar to remove the slightest hint of hiss.


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## Kiki

Tchaikovsky's Manfred is a beautiful, epic narrative, although not quite as symphonic as his last three numbered symphonies. 

I've always liked young Mariss Jansons' subtlety since his LP came out. In recent times, my favourites are Vladimir Jurowski for his attention to details and Vasily Petrenko for a clean, no-nonsense reading that IMO has done the score justice. 

Got a chance to listen to Igor Markevitch re-issue recently. Really exciting stuff. On the other hand, if one doesn't mind a bit of eccentricity, Mikhail Pletnev's two accounts are also very interesting. 

Also have got a Svetlanov 1992 live recording. Again, very exciting stuff, but unfortunately it's heavily altered. I believe the older Melodiya recording is not cut/altered, but I haven't been able to hunt it down.

Interestingly, apart from Jansons, they are all Russians... Another non-Russian recording I like is Riccardo Chailly's recent Lucerne account. More polished, more romanticized, and superbly played.


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