# Worst symphony recordings



## Dedalus

Sorry if there's already been a post about this. People often ask what the best recordings of a particular composer or symphony is. Well, does anybody know any really terrible recordings that just ruin the work?


----------



## brotagonist

You're probably speaking about performances (I realize that the word recording can apply to both  ), but presentation has a lot to do with it. No doubt, there is much fine music on such albums, but the greatest classical hits, classics for relaxation, classics to become smarter, top hundred romantic symphonies of all time, etc., kind of ruin the experience for me.


----------



## hpowders

The Norrington performances of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony-the worst I have ever heard.

He turns the magnificent slow movement of the Ninth into unmusical graffiti. So fast!
What on earth was he thinking???

Are we to believe that everything in Beethoven's time was sped up like watching those early silent movies?


----------



## Mahlerian

hpowders said:


> The Norrington performances of Beethoven's Pastoral and Ninth Symphonies-the worst I have ever heard-so damn fast.
> 
> He turns the magnificent slow movement of the Ninth into unmusical graffiti. So fast! So unmusical!
> What on earth was he thinking???


Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


----------



## DiesIraeCX

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


Oh wow, now _that _is a truly glacial tempo! I'm not sure whether to be impressed or appalled. 

If this performance were on CD, I'd buy it just for the sake of novelty!


----------



## KenOC

hpowders said:


> The Norrington performances of Beethoven's Pastoral and Ninth Symphonies-the worst I have ever heard-so damn fast.


You sound like a man who needs some...Walter!


----------



## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


I don't have to play it. The 1' 54" speaks for itself. How do people like this ever graduate with a degree in music?

Oh, no!! It's playing!! How awful!!

If Cobra ever comes to Florida, I'lll simply remain with the Gators.

I'm actually laughing! How grotesque! Beethoven would have soundly boxed his ears!!!


----------



## SixFootScowl

The guy singing O Freunde, nicht diese Toene! at 124:45 sounds more like he is yawning.

Seriously, did somebody slow down a recording. This is insanely slow. But I will save the link in case I ever get around to trying to follow along with the score.


----------



## arpeggio

*Bad Shostakovich*

It is much easier for my to pick bad recordings over good.

I could not tell you the best recording of Beethoven's _Ninth_ but I can tell you the most horrible performance of Shostakovich's _The Execution of Stepan Razin_.






​
The fact that this monstrosity is still in print should be considered a crime against humanity. Everyone involved with this performance should be shot. To remind myself how bad it is I am listening to right now. Very anemic performance completely void of any passion. Torture!!!!

I think I will spend the rest of the evening listening to 4' 33".


----------



## techniquest

I thought I'd heard a bad Beethoven 9th when I came across the Norrington set, but that Maximianno Cobra performance (above) is _painful_!
BTW, I can't see the image regarding the Shostakovich "Execution" recording; which is it? I'm intrigued to know...I have 4 recordings of the piece and none of those is particularly awful.


----------



## arpeggio

techniquest said:


> I thought I'd heard a bad Beethoven 9th when I came across the Norrington set, but that Maximianno Cobra performance (above) is _painful_!
> BTW, I can't see the image regarding the Shostakovich "Execution" recording; which is it? I'm intrigued to know...I have 4 recordings of the piece and none of those is particularly awful.


Knowing my luck you will have it and love it.

Here is link to Arkive Music for it: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=30597


----------



## Bulldog

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Oh wow, now _that _is a truly glacial tempo! I'm not sure whether to be impressed or appalled.
> 
> If this performance were on CD, I'd buy it just for the sake of novelty!


Now is your opportunity. The Cobra-led performances of all nine symphonies is available for sale at CD Baby. Only $99. Order quickly - the Cobra is a hot commodity.


----------



## Bulldog

arpeggio said:


> It is much easier for my to pick bad recordings over good.
> 
> I could not tell you the best recording of Beethoven's _Ninth_ but I can tell you the most horrible performance of Shostakovich's _The Execution of Stepan Razin_.
> 
> View attachment 52032​
> The fact that this monstrosity is still in print should be considered a crime against humanity. Everyone involved with this performance should be shot. To remind myself how bad it is I am listening to right now. Very anemic performance completely void of any passion. Torture!!!!


Totally agree. It might be the worst recording I ever bought.


----------



## CyrilWashbrook

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


Excrutiating. Appropriately, all the performers appear to be bored witless.

Incidentally, I wonder what the odds are on this Amazon user being Maximianno Cobra under a pseudonym.


----------



## Manxfeeder

CyrilWashbrook said:


> Excrutiating. Appropriately, all the performers appear to be bored witless.


To me they look like the conductor has their children hostage and they are playing under duress.

It's amazing; this guy has a Ph.D. in musicology, and his dissertation was on the Beethoven symphonies! This is from his website:

"Maximianno Cobra completed a Ph.D. in musicology and music history under the supervision of Professor Serge GUT, graduating in 1999 from Paris-Sorbonne/Paris IV University. His dissertation: Les Symphonies de Ludwig van Beethoven : une étude analytique, critique et historique en vue d'une nouvelle édition followed up on Prof. Willem Retze Talsma's research and focused on the issues of Beethoven's tempi and metronome markings. This in-depth study marks another decisive turn: from then on he'll dedicate himself to the TEMPUS theory."


----------



## TurnaboutVox

I genuinely tried to listen to this, got to 18 minutes and just had to stop. Awful.



CyrilWashbrook said:


> Excrutiating. Appropriately, all the performers appear to be bored witless.
> 
> Incidentally, I wonder what the odds are on this Amazon user being Maximianno Cobra under a pseudonym.


Pretty good, I'd have thought!



> To all music lovers,
> 
> On one hand I can name my favorite conductors.They are Furtwängler, Knappertsbusch, Klemperer, Mengelberg, Golovanov, and one you may not be familiar with that is Maximianno Cobra.
> 
> I Know nothing about him personally  except that he is a musical genius. Like the others I listed he is totally unique. There is simply no one like him and I mean this in the most complimentary way. His way is to bring out the tragic elements of music in a manner I have never heard before. He conducts the great works very romantically and allows us to experience the tragic element in music better than anyone I have heard before.
> 
> Some know nothings have posted cruel reviews of his musical style. *My advice is to buy the cds or purchase them as downloads* and then you be the judge.I believe you will not only not be disappointed but the performances will come to you as a musical revelation. Purchase them for yourselves and find out.


----------



## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


If I was performing in that orchestra, during rehearsal, given the ludicrous interpretation, I would have walked off the stage.... unless I needed the money.


----------



## Manxfeeder

hpowders said:


> If I was performing in that orchestra, during rehearsal, given the ludicrous interpretation, I would have walked off the stage.... unless I needed the money.


At that tempo, maybe they got paid overtime.


----------



## Mahlerian

CyrilWashbrook said:


> Excrutiating. Appropriately, all the performers appear to be bored witless.
> 
> Incidentally, I wonder what the odds are on this Amazon user being Maximianno Cobra under a pseudonym.


Got to be. He doesn't seem to have reviews of anything or anyone else, and nothing whatsoever but praise.

Speaking of conducting amateurs, though, I'll happily throw Kaplan's Mahler 2 on the pyre.


----------



## techniquest

arpeggio said:


> Knowing my luck you will have it and love it.
> 
> Here is link to Arkive Music for it: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=30597


Ha ha - I know the recording you mean now. Yes an absolute disgrace to the world of music; it's a wonder old DSCH didn't return zombie-style from the grave to extinguish all who had anything to do with it. I am also very happy to say that this recording does not feature in the 4 I referred to above


----------



## hpowders

Manxfeeder said:


> At that tempo, maybe they got paid overtime.


That would be a smart negotiation!! Sort of like Seinfeld insisting on residuals every time a Seinfeld episode is broadcast somewhere. That deal got him over $800,000,000 so far.


----------



## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> Got to be. He doesn't seem to have reviews of anything or anyone else, and nothing whatsoever but praise.
> 
> Speaking of conducting amateurs, though, I'll happily throw Kaplan's Mahler 2 on the pyre.


His Mahler 2 made a big splash when it first came out.


----------



## Mahlerian

hpowders said:


> His Mahler 2 made a big splash when it first came out.


The best-selling Mahler recording of all time, I believe. This is his second one, and other than high quality sound it boasts the first recording of the newest critical edition of the work. The problem is that his lack of expertise still shows even through the Vienna Philharmonic. He can't compete in terms of interpretation with a real Mahler conductor like Walter, Klemperer, Bernstein, Tennstedt, or Boulez.


----------



## violadude

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


That's the first thing that popped into my head as well.


----------



## csacks

Cobra´s version is in cetacean


----------



## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> The best-selling Mahler recording of all time, I believe. This is his second one, and other than high quality sound it boasts the first recording of the newest critical edition of the work. The problem is that his lack of expertise still shows even through the Vienna Philharmonic. He can't compete in terms of interpretation with a real Mahler conductor like Walter, Klemperer, Bernstein, Tennstedt, or Boulez.


Of course not. I wouldn't waste my money, like I already did on around $3000 worth of CD's, cassettes and LPs, 93% of which I never listen to.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Fans of the grotesque may want to check out Rozhdestvensky's 1984 live recording of Bruckner 5 with the Ministry of Culture State Symphony Orchestra on the Revelation label (which seemed to specialise in exhuming Soviet-era live concerts from archives of mysterious provenance). Despite the bull-in-a-china shop approach to which the old USSR orchestras were occasionally prone on live recordings, to call this performance shaky is probably being somewhat polite. Unless the engineers have made a right mess of any post-production it sounds like at least one section of the orchestra is at times in canon with itself, as if the musicians have been collectively blindfolded and are playing purely on memory (unless the conductor simply gave up and made smartly for the sanctuary of the Green Room). 

Almost bewitching in a head-in-the-hands sort of way.


----------



## MrCello

I used to have a recording on Dvorak's 9th that was dreadful. I'm currently scouring the internet to find which recording it was.

The problem was in the second movement. It was actually out of tune. I'm not sure if it was an effect of the recording process, but it was so dreadful I almost cried.


----------



## hpowders

That's why we have the Toscanini/NBC performance.


----------



## Guest

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


Perhaps he was being paid by the hour?


----------



## Polyphemus

hpowders said:


> Of course not. I wouldn't waste my money, like I already did on around $3000 worth of CD's, cassettes and LPs, 93% of which I never listen to.


You and me both HP.


----------



## hpowders

Polyphemus said:


> You and me both HP.


It's the equivalent of a woman looking at her dress-filled closet exclaiming, "I have nothing to wear!!" :lol::lol:

Looking at hundreds of CD's, I can't find any I want to listen to!


----------



## Polyphemus

Yet ones hand does tend to drift to familiar favourites or the bag containing the latest new ones (duds included).


----------



## hpowders

That's why when asked what's the difference between music I like and music I love, I reply, "I can always find the music I love."


----------



## SONNET CLV

hpowders said:


> I don't have to play it. The 1' 54" speaks for itself.


A Beethoven Ninth that lingers just short of two hours playing time! Celibidache would be jealous.


----------



## rrudolph

Perhaps the worst one in my collection. Another one from the bad old days of the Soviet Union (1982). Sound quality is bad enough that I'm not even sure how good or bad the performance is. There's a massive punch-in in the middle of a movement somewhere in there (I forget where because I never listen to this anymore)-the most audible splice I've ever heard on a commercially released recording...









Pretty sure this is out of print now, but if you see a used copy, don't bother.


----------



## Orfeo

*Dmitry Kabalevsky's Symphonies I & II.*
-Erwin Acel and Szeged Philharmonic Orchestra.
->The lack of rehearsals is apparent, painfully so.

*Anton Bruckner's Symphony no. V.*
-Lovro von Matacic & the Czech Philharmonic.
->A master, credible Brucknerian, but why the cuts in the outer movements and the added percussions (triangle and cymbals) at the finale's coda? That said, the recording is not bad per se, but it does not sell either (the album says Hass, but it's close to Schalk's edition).

*Carl Nielsen's Symphony no. IV.*
-Cincinnati Symphony/Max Rudolf.
->Nielsen was still being discovered by the time this 1966 recording came about. Let's just say that Nielsen's language and physicality eluded the otherwise dedicated, committed team.

*Reinhold Gliere's Third Symphony "Ilya Murometz."*
-The Philadelphia Orchestra/Leopold Stokowski.
->This is plain butchery, the sound picture forever disjointed and ruined by this recording.


----------



## omega

Tired of HIP performances?
Try this outstanding combination of classicism and Andean tones!










Very good technique, but I'm doubtful about the rendition...


----------



## Art Rock

My introduction to Mahler's 9th back in the 80s was the Levine double CD on Sony - with such a shrill sound in the upper registers of the strings that I tossed it out of my collection quickly. Fortunately, I bought several great performances of this masterpiece later.


----------



## Couac Addict

Sure, it was a joke but that doesn't stop it from sounding like Babar being raped.


----------



## omega

Couac Addict said:


> Sure, it was a joke but that doesn't stop it from sounding like Babar being raped.


Is this supposed to be Penderecki? :lol:


----------



## bigshot

Ormandy did a Death and Transfiguration in 1945 that sounds like the soundtrack to a potboiler romance movie. I've never seen it reissued... only heard it in the 78 set.


----------



## AClockworkOrange

Couac Addict said:


> Sure, it was a joke but that doesn't stop it from sounding like Babar being raped.


That may be the worst recording of any kind I have ever heard. In any genre. That actually made me cringe (and spare a thought for poor, poor Babar).

It is so bad I don't know how to react.

Was that really a joke? If so, I don't get it - am I missing something of having 'sense of humour failure'?


----------



## Dave Whitmore

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


I think Beethoven woud throw a fit if he could hear this!


----------



## TurnaboutVox

Ah, the notorious Portsmouth Sinfonia. Wikipedia has a good article on them.



> The Portsmouth Sinfonia was an orchestra founded by a group of students at the Portsmouth School of Art in England, in 1970. The Sinfonia had an unusual entrance requirement, in that players had to either be non-musicians, or if a musician, play an instrument that was entirely new to them. Among the founding members was one of their teachers, English composer Gavin Bryars. The orchestra started as a one-off, tongue-in-cheek performance art ensemble but became a cultural phenomenon over the following ten years, with concerts, record albums, a film and a hit single.
> 
> Bryars was interested more in experimenting with the nature of music than forming a traditional orchestra. Instead of picking the most competent musicians he could find, he encouraged anyone to join, regardless of talent, ability and experience. The only rules were that everyone had to come for rehearsals and that people should try their best to get it right and not intentionally try to play badly. The first recording made by the Sinfonia was a floppy 45rpm disc of Rossini's William Tell Overture, which was sent out as the invitation for the degree show that year.
> 
> The early repertoire of the Sinfonia was drawn from standard classical repertoire (such as "The Blue Danube" waltz and "Also sprach Zarathustra"), so that most orchestra members had a rough idea of what the piece, or at least famous parts of it, should sound like; even if they could not play their chosen instrument accurately, they would at least have an idea that they should be going higher at one part then lower at another, and so on. The end result was the musical ensemble producing not only the correct note but several notes nearby, 'clouds of sound' that gave an average impression of the piece.
> 
> Many modern composers and musicians found this to be interesting and even profound; the comedic aspects of the music were merely a bonus, though it was used extensively for marketing purposes. *Brian Eno was interested enough to join the orchestra, playing clarinet, and subsequently producing their first two albums*.
> 
> The orchestra was invited by the composer Michael Parsons to play the Purcell Room at London's Royal Festival Hall. Their album, Portsmouth Sinfonia Plays the Popular Classics was released in 1974. On 28 May 1974, as their fame increased, they played a concert at the Royal Albert Hall with conductor John Farley, which sold thousands of tickets. The orchestra's take on the late 1970s / early 1980s vogue for pop classical medleys, "Classical Muddly" - produced by their manager Martin Lewis and released by Springtime!/Island Records in 1981 - is particularly characteristic of their unique sound; it was specifically inspired by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra's "Hooked on Classics". The single, which consisted of the group's previous recordings sped up, amalgamated and synchronized (rather poorly) to a disco beat, was a Top 40 hit in the UK Singles Chart.
> 
> As the years passed, the musicians eventually became accustomed with, and more skilled at, their instruments, which diminished the novelty of the group. Although the group never formally disbanded, it ceased performing in 1979.
> 
> A recording of the Sinfonia playing the beginning of Also sprach Zarathustra has recently achieved some fame as an internet meme under the moniker "orchestra fail" [...]


----------



## Vaneyes

Cobra, Kaplan, Norrington are good examples of interpretation gone bad. Others? Consider Gergiev, Rattle, Maazel, Celibidache, Chailly, Ozawa, Slatkin, Stokowski, MTT, Mehta, Gilbert, Thielemann, Dudamel, Nezet-Seguin, to name a few.:tiphat:


----------



## hpowders

Dave Whitmore said:


> I think Beethoven woud throw a fit if he could hear this!


He would box that dude's ears!!!


----------



## Dave Whitmore

TurnaboutVox said:


> Ah, the notorious Portsmouth Sinfonia. Wikipedia has a good article on them.


They actually threw a concert? And charged money?? I could maybe see the comedic value of hearing one or two songs played badly but I think I would have an actual nervous breakdown listening to a whole concert played like that! I could see something like this being done for something like Comic Relief.


----------



## Couac Addict

AClockworkOrange said:


> Was that really a joke? If so, I don't get it - am I missing something of having 'sense of humour failure'?


A joke. An experiment. Call it what you will. The performers were either non-musicians or musicians who were unfamiliar with the instrument they were playing. They are intentionally playing to the best of their abilities.
When I first told my family that I would be playing at the Royal Albert Hall, all excited and buzzing etc. They kindly said to me _"So has Portsmouth Sinfonia"_. That killed the moment :lol:


----------



## AClockworkOrange

TurnaboutVox said:


> Ah, the notorious Portsmouth Sinfonia. Wikipedia has a good article on them.


Thank you for sharing that article TurnaboutVox, I had never heard of this ensemble before this thread.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

AClockworkOrange said:


> Thank you for sharing that article TurnaboutVox, I had never heard of this ensemble before this thread.


They were quite infamous at the time (the early 70's), incredulous pieces on BBC news, low-key general outrage, that sort of thing.


----------



## Dave Whitmore

TurnaboutVox said:


> They were quite infamous at the time (the early 70's), incredulous pieces on BBC news, low-key general outrage, that sort of thing.


It sounds like they were the Tommy Cooper of the music world! Funny, I don't remember them at all.


----------



## tgtr0660

Norrington in general is atrocious with post-classical-era music. 

One conductor I LOVE for baroque music is Rene Jacobs. But his performance and recording of Mozart's 41st (my favorite of his symphonies) absolutely destroys it. He tried to become the start of the show with his sudden tempo changes and dynamic alterations and utterly murders everything that is glorious about this work.


----------



## Triplets

Any one care to nominate a Celibidache recording? I am not a fan so I haven't heard that many of them, but the few that I do know are so turgid that they made me reach for the coffee pot to jolt myself back to life.


----------



## Autocrat

I submit Klemperer's Mozart Symphonies with old/new Philharmonia Orchestras.  Glacially slow (yes, all of them, but the G minor is a travesty), coupled with the excruciatingly thin and out of tune oboes of the time. What was that about? Nasty to my ears, and ironic that it's included in a series called "Great Recordings of the Century".

Also, I have the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, recorded live in Japan in 1997 (cover looks like this). Rachmaninov Symphony #2, Lohengrin Prelude to act 3, Powerhouse by Graeme Koehne. The Rach is a truly awful performance of an extraordinary piece of music - the strings completely fall apart in a section of the second movement, and a percussionist drops things a number of times. Maybe it was their last night on tour, and they'd been celebrating? Mercifully, the slow movement went off without too many problems.

In the Wagner, the trombones completely stuff up their entry, every single time. Powerhouse is good, but not much of a challenge.


----------



## senza sordino

I've had my eye on this complete set of Prokofiev symphonies conducted by Rostropovich 
View attachment 56997


Allmusic didn't have much good to say about the set. And going so far as calling Rostropovich one of the worst conductors of the 20th Century. The website says that no set of the Prokofiev symphonies is flawless, but the Rostropovich set is the furthest from flawless.

I haven't bought the series, and now this review has put me off. Does anyone know the series? Is it one of the worst set of Prokofiev symphonies?


----------



## PeterPowerPop

techniquest said:


> I thought I'd heard a bad Beethoven 9th when I came across the Norrington set, but that Maximianno Cobra performance (above) is _painful_!
> BTW, I can't see the image regarding the Shostakovich "Execution" recording; which is it? I'm intrigued to know...I have 4 recordings of the piece and none of those is particularly awful.


It's this recording:

*SHOSTAKOVICH: The Execution of Stepan Razin, Op. 119*
*SVIRIDOV: Oratorio Pathetique*

*Assen Vassilev, bass*
*Varna Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus*
*Andre Andreev, conductor*

Koch International Classics

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001SDB

Front:









Back:


----------



## KenOC

senza sordino said:


> I haven't bought the series, and now this review has put me off. Does anyone know the series? Is it one of the worst set of Prokofiev symphonies?


Dunno, but nothing I have conducted by Rostropovich has risen to the top of the heap. I can readily recommend the Rozhdestvensky set of the Prokofiev symphonies.

http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Sym...+symphonies+rozhdestvensky&pebp=1416975821365


----------



## senza sordino

KenOC said:


> Dunno, but nothing I have conducted by Rostropovich has risen to the top of the heap. I can readily recommend the Rozhdestvensky set of the Prokofiev symphonies.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Sym...+symphonies+rozhdestvensky&pebp=1416975821365


Snooping 'round the web and Gergiev conducting the LSO gets good reviews. However, I find some of his interpretations a bit too fast.


----------



## techniquest

senza sordino said:


> Snooping 'round the web and Gergiev conducting the LSO gets good reviews. However, I find some of his interpretations a bit too fast.


I'd avoid that one unless you're happy with his ambient noises scattered among the music. 
There's nothing particularly wrong with the Rostropovich set, it's just that there are much better sets out there. Try Kitajenko (Phoenix Edition) for solid tempi and glorious sound, or Weller (Brilliant Classics) if you need to stick to a reasonable budget.


----------



## hpowders

senza sordino said:


> Snooping 'round the web and Gergiev conducting the LSO gets good reviews. However, I find some of his interpretations a bit too fast.


His Rite of Spring is deliberate in tempi. Massive and primitive!


----------



## realdealblues

Here's a total dud...

View attachment 57068


Mahler: Symphony No. 4
Christoph Von Dohnanyi/Cleveland Orchestra


----------



## Dave Whitmore

CyrilWashbrook said:


> Excrutiating. Appropriately, all the performers appear to be bored witless.
> 
> Incidentally, I wonder what the odds are on this Amazon user being Maximianno Cobra under a pseudonym.


Given that this reviewer has posted exactly the same review on every one of Cobra's cds I would think it's highly likely! What a horrible version of Beethoven's 9th. I wouldn't even listen to it for the novelty value.


----------



## TheOtherStrauss

Gergiev conducting almost anything is fairly bad in my opinion. The orchestra is never together, slower movements lack passion and execution, and his tempo changes are too erratic. I find his Shostakovich cycle unbearable. He also recorded Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante with Gautier Capucon...my head exploded after the initial downbeat.


----------



## Silkenblack

Cobra evokes an another Cobra from the 80's. The poster said:

"Crime is a disease.
Meet the cure."


----------



## hpowders

Roger Norrington's Beethoven's Ninth. Trying to be HIP, but turned out laughably un-HIP.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

You can't get much mor pedestrian than this


----------



## Vaneyes

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You can't get much mor pedestrian than this
> 
> View attachment 58355


I like it very much.:tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

TheOtherStrauss said:


> Gergiev conducting almost anything is fairly bad in my opinion. The orchestra is never together, slower movements lack passion and execution, and his tempo changes are too erratic. I find his Shostakovich cycle unbearable. He also recorded Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante with Gautier Capucon...my head exploded after the initial downbeat.


I agree for the most part, though his Salzburg "Firebird" w. VPO (DVD), and Tchaikovsky/Myaskovsky w. Repin, are in a good recording realm.:tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Toxic: Do not go near.


----------



## ToneDeaf&Senile

realdealblues said:


> Here's a total dud...
> 
> View attachment 57068
> 
> 
> Mahler: Symphony No. 4
> Christoph Von Dohnanyi/Cleveland Orchestra


What a coincidence! Years ago I bought Mahler's fifth in this same series. I felt about it as you apparently do for the fourth. In fact it's the one recording I've every thrown in the trash. Why? Well, I obviously didn't want it. What's more, I thought it such a poor representation of what a Mahler symphony ought to sound like that I couldn't bring myself to give it away, let alone sell it. Quite a shame really. It was well played and well recorded. I just found it totally unidiomatic.


----------



## Lord Lance

KenOC said:


> You sound like a man who needs some...Walter!


You LIKE Walter?


----------



## hpowders

Vaneyes said:


> Toxic: Do not go near.


To Leinsdorf's credit, he never conducted the same piece, the same way twice. He was always trying new ways. Sometimes repeats. Sometimes, not. Faster. Slower. Trills begun on upper note; sometimes, lower note; reduced size orchestra; full orchestra in Mozart or Haydn.

When I attended a Leinsdorf concert, I never knew what to expect. Completely unpredictable. Always learning. Always sharing. Never in a predictable rut.

He made a very nice series of Prokofiev recordings back in the day for RCA.


----------



## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> You LIKE Walter?


I know you weren't asking me, but... I don't _like_ Walter. I LOVE Walter.


----------



## hpowders

I find Walter's Mahler too fast.

I like Walter in Beethoven, particularly his Eroica and Pastoral.


----------



## Vaneyes

hpowders said:


> I find Walter's Mahler too fast.
> 
> I like Walter in Beethoven, particularly his Eroica and Pastoral.


I haven't heard Bruno's Mahler for a while, but his M1 & M2 always struck me as labored, though still valued.

His autumnal LvB 4 & 6 are genius, as is Brahms 2 & 3, as is Bruckner 9. Making the most with what he had.:tiphat:


----------



## JACE

Vaneyes said:


> I haven't heard Bruno's Mahler for a while, but his M1 & M2 always struck me as labored, though still valued.


Walter's NYPO M2 is my all-time favorite version of that work. 

As they say, "Different strokes for different folks."


----------



## Lord Lance

JACE said:


> I know you weren't asking me, but... I don't _like_ Walter. I LOVE Walter.


Any particular favorites?


----------



## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Any particular favorites?


Well, I just mentioned the Mahler Second with the NYPO (Sony). I'd also point to two of his recordings of _Das Lied von der Erde_ -- the legendary one with Kathleen Ferrier & Julius Patzak (Decca), as well as the stereo version with Mildred Miller and Ernst Haefliger (Sony), which in some ways I like even more.

Walter's entire Brahms cycle with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra is uniquely wonderful -- particularly the Second & Third Symphonies. This is desert-island music for me. (Others have raved about Walter's MONO Brahms symphony recording with the NYPO made a few years earlier. But I've not heard them.)

Walter's Bruckner Symphony No. 9 (with the Columbia SO) is also outstanding, a very special recording.

That's a start...


----------



## waldvogel

Back a long time ago, I bought a set of Mozart Piano Concertos performed by Lili Kraus with something called the Vienna Festival Orchestra. Lili was fine, but this so-called orchestra was one of the earliest into authentic Mozart playing - authentic as the first performance of Don Giovanni, in which the overture arrived shortly before the performance and was played without a rehearsal. Ragged, undisciplined and out of tune. 




Sort of like the Portsmouth Sinfonia, but I think they actually got paid for this.


----------



## Albert7

Some people think that Chailly's recordings of Mahler are too fast.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Vaneyes said:


> Toxic: Do not go near.


Hey, it's on Spotify! Putting on my Hazmat suit for a foray.


----------



## hpowders

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You can't get much mor pedestrian than this
> 
> View attachment 58355


The only way you can get more _pedestrian_ than that, is if the conductor was named _Walker_.


----------



## Manxfeeder

If you're in your used CD store and see this for $3 and are tempted to pick it up, look in his eyes. He's telling you, "What do you think you're doing?"


----------



## Buntobox

Mahlerian said:


> Strange, I was just thinking of this exemplar of the other extreme...


That sounds like a half-speed rehearsal run-through. It's dire. The slide that comes up at the beginning of the fourth movement states "Presto". Cobra obviously has no idea what that means. He's playing it adagio, maybe even largo! The man's an amateur.


----------



## Buntobox

rrudolph said:


> ...There's a massive punch-in in the middle of a movement somewhere in there (I forget where because I never listen to this anymore)-the most audible splice I've ever heard on a commercially released recording....


Then you haven't heard the opening bars of Glasunov's 4th on Orfeo by Neeme Jarvi. A more cack-handed edit I have never heard (I used to edit classical music on quarter inch at the BBC and if I had done this one I'd have been sent to the library to do tape recycling!). It destroys the opening of the symphony completely!


----------



## fluteman

TheOtherStrauss said:


> Gergiev conducting almost anything is fairly bad in my opinion. The orchestra is never together, slower movements lack passion and execution, and his tempo changes are too erratic. I find his Shostakovich cycle unbearable. He also recorded Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante with Gautier Capucon...my head exploded after the initial downbeat.


Even if one is a fan of Gergiev in certain repertoire, his overall approach just doesn't work for me with some music, such as that of Debussy. Delicacy and subtlety just aren't his cup of vodka. Overaggressive, overcharged, overloud, overintense, over the top, just plain over. Though I can't say this reaches the level of badness of some other recordings cited in this thread.


----------



## Merl

Triplets said:


> Any one care to nominate a Celibidache recording? I am not a fan so I haven't heard that many of them, but the few that I do know are so turgid that they made me reach for the coffee pot to jolt myself back to life.


Wow, this is an old thread! I'll nominate Beethoven's 7th with Celi from the set below. Excruciatingly slow and he manages to suck every ounce of joy out of it. The allegretto is so slow it becomes an adagio. The first movement weighs in at 16 minutes (minus repeat) and at 40+ minutes with no repeats (compared to Tocanini's 32 minutes) its one of the slowest, most turgid accounts of a Beethoven symphony ever (apart from Mr. Cobra). Beethoven would have hung himself if he'd heard it. Tbh, the rest of the cycle is painfully slow too. The 8th becomes a ponderous dirge in his hands.


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Klemperer's Mahler 7 on EMI. I love his other Mahler recordings but, try as I might, I've never been able to get to grips with this.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Klemperer's Mahler 7 on EMI. I love his other Mahler recordings but, try as I might, I've never been able to get to grips with this.


...in which case you might enjoy the review of the Klemperer Mahler box I bunged on Amazon a few years back:

Otto Klemperer's association with Mahler himself, and his recordings of about half of the major works, are familiar to many music lovers, and make no mistake, here in this superb-value boxed set, all lovingly remastered very recently, are performances which have stood the test of time, and remain at or near the top of any Mahler recommendations.

Possibly the best thing here is The Resurrection, beautifully paced, beautifully sung, and as dramatic and overwhelming as any recording I know. It's now just over 80 minutes long, by the way, suggesting that the rumours of the earlier CD releases having been sped up slightly could well be true. The Fourth too has an elegance that is hard to beat, again beautifully sung in the finale by Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, even if she is hardly boy-ish in her tone.

The last two great finished works of Mahler, Das Lied and the 9th Symphony benefit here from Klemperer's stately approach. I miss the zing that someone like Solti gets into the inner movements of No.9, but there is something inherently "right" about the Klemperer way, and both are moving performances, even on the nth hearing. Das Lied is genuinely a performance of stature, with Christa Ludwig cool, but powerful in the bigger songs, and (an often overlooked consideration) Fritz Wunderlich living up to his name in the tenor songs, the best tenor recording I have of this piece. I do prefer Janet Baker to Ludwig, but I fancy a touch more warmth in Der Abschied, merely a personal preference, which no doubt many will disagree with. Ludwig is also excellent in the selection of songs included in this box, three of the Ruckert Lieder and a couple of Wunderhorn songs (incidentally the only items not newly remastered).

I knew these recordings from before, but I am glad I have invested in this absurdly cheap box, as the recordings now sound fresher, clearer and almost ageless. And as a set it is worth having for these four big recordings, which are, as I said among the best ever made.

And the worst? Klemperer's Mahler 7 is surely one of the most appalling renditions of any major work ever committed to disc. This is a version new to me, and I did buy the box almost exclusively so as to check this reading out. There is some beauty in the performance (well done all members of the New Philharmonia for persevering!) especially some lovely passages in the two Nachtmusiks, but to all intents and purposes this sounds like someone conducting a professional orchestra at school orchestra rehearsal pace. Somehow Klemperer takes just over a hundred minutes to get through the work, and it feels significantly longer! My favourite readings - Abbado and Solti - are not unusual in taking 20-plus minutes less. The first movement lumbers along, never gain momentum, and the closing pages (among the finest music Mahler ever wrote) have none of that inexorable cumulative effect others do. Twenty Eight minutes!!!! Good grief!

It doesn't get much better. The "Castrol GTX" music of the second movement is hardly recognisable as the beautiful serenade it is, and the formally weak second nachtmusik drags and drags and drags, even though some have played it even slower than Otto! And while the best performance really let rip in the finale and go for it hell-for-leather, here it is all distinctly underwhelming. The booklet notes here describe the performance as "eccentrically laboured". An understatement, I'd say.

If you are intrigued by this infamous Seventh, don't be, it's dull, and will inspire intense dislike for what is a beautiful, fantastic, magical work. But if you want to hear a conductor at his very best, Nos. 2, 4, 9 and Das Lied are out of this world.


----------



## Merl

Can I put Klemperer's Beethoven 7 in here too (from his Philharmonia studio cycle)? That one's awful too. Don't get me wrong I like the rest of his cycle but the 7th is dire (though nowhere near as tedious as Celi).


----------



## Merl

I'm nominating poor Kletzki's shocking Mahler 1&9 with the Israel PO, too. Terrible recording (sounds like it was recorded under a tarpaulin at the bottom of a ditch), sloppy ensemble, joyless playing and cuts make this a total dud. I got this from a charity shop and may yet take it back. Worst £1 I've ever spent.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I know not all that many conductors have nailed Bruckner's 6th over the years but I was so disappointed with Colin Davis's LSO recording that I did something I don't often do and ditched it, despite giving it various opportunities to grow on me. Fair enough if the 6th is supposed to have certain so-called 'enigmatic' qualities but I found this performance vapid and uninvolved and it's without doubt, along with Rozhdestvenky's live 5th on the Russian Revelation label, my most disappointing Bruckner purchase ever.


----------



## david johnson

I once heard a record of Swan Lake Suite preformed by "The Mighty Hamburg Philharmonic". It was grim.


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Robert Pickett said:


> ...in which case you might enjoy the review of the Klemperer Mahler box I bunged on Amazon a few years back...


Thanks for that, Robert. Excellent review, which tallies extremely well with my take on those recordings.


----------



## MarkW

Okay, I've actually been listening to Cobra's Beethoven Ninth, at least the first movemnt so far. Aside from it being a whole new concept in Beethoven interpretation -)), it's really educational to listen through it (once). When it's way slowed down it gives you a note by note view of how Beethoven put it together - things that at normal tempi sound like rough edges, actually turn out to be, at slow speed . . . real rough edges. It's good to know my ears haven't been wrong all these years. Next, the scherzo, which I can't imagine being anything less than ponderous


----------



## Ethereality

This #1 recording on YouTube of Beethoven's 5th is frankly, utterly ridiculous.






It says 'Klaus Tennstedt, London Philharmonic Orchestra.'


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

I'm going to be controversial here and nominate Scherchen's Beethoven 3 with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra. Now, I don't at all mind subpar playing _if and only if_ there is a worthy interpretation to be found under the surface. This is what people like Hurwitz fail to understand IMO. But this sounds like a middle school orchestra that a sadistic conductor forced to play 3x the speed of what they were capable of. It sounds like fast for the sake of being fast. Thin, whiny strings scrubbing, huffing, and puffing away at ridiculous speeds and missing seemingly every other note. Weak tuttis. Blowing through all the important structural moments to get to some unclear destination. A pitiful funeral march that sounds like a joyful dance with no gravitas whatsoever. This is some of the most dispassionate playing and one of the most boring interpretations I've ever heard. I have no idea what Mr. S was thinking here. I'm absolutely astonished that it came in at No. 2 on Trout's recommended Eroica recordings.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Klemperer's Mahler 7 on EMI. I love his other Mahler recordings but, try as I might, I've never been able to get to grips with this.


This recording helped me to love M7. Yes, some of the tempo choices are questionable to say the least from Klemp very late in his career, but I haven't heard another recording that allows us to savor so many little juicy details in the score.


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

Ethereality said:


> This #1 recording on YouTube of Beethoven's 5th is frankly, utterly ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says 'Klaus Tennstedt, London Philharmonic Orchestra.'


LOL what is this? The intonations are so bad, the timpani sounds like an oil barrel, the strings drag and were out of sync. How the hell is this #1 when you can access so many great recordings on YT? Google's recommendation algorithm has no ears!


----------



## JAS

Allegro Con Brio said:


> . . . I'm absolutely astonished that it came in at No. 2 on Trout's recommended Eroica recordings.


Maybe no. 1 was even worse.


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I'm going to be controversial here and nominate Scherchen's Beethoven 3 with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra. Now, I don't at all mind subpar playing _if and only if_ there is a worthy interpretation to be found under the surface. This is what people like Hurwitz fail to understand IMO. But this sounds like a middle school orchestra that a sadistic conductor forced to play 3x the speed of what they were capable of. It sounds like fast for the sake of being fast. Thin, whiny strings scrubbing, huffing, and puffing away at ridiculous speeds and missing seemingly every other note. Weak tuttis. Blowing through all the important structural moments to get to some unclear destination. A pitiful funeral march that sounds like a joyful dance with no gravitas whatsoever. This is some of the most dispassionate playing and one of the most boring interpretations I've ever heard. I have no idea what Mr. S was thinking here. I'm absolutely astonished that it came in at No. 2 on Trout's recommended Eroica recordings.


This sounds quite like the style of HIP, but it is definitely rushed. There are great moments and clarity of texture is here, I don't think middle school can play like this. A great performance (where the orchestra did not fall apart) of similar style (quite a bit slower) is Paavo Jarvi's DKB recording where all boxes are checked.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

JAS said:


> Maybe no. 1 was even worse.


It was Furtwängler's 1944 VPO, which is one of my favorites

https://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/trout/1662-rr-23-beethoven-symphony.html


----------



## flamencosketches

Ethereality said:


> This #1 recording on YouTube of Beethoven's 5th is frankly, utterly ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says 'Klaus Tennstedt, London Philharmonic Orchestra.'


Is this really Tennstedt & the LPO? It does not sound up to that conductor's usual high standards.


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

flamencosketches said:


> Is this really Tennstedt & the LPO? It does not sound up to that conductor's usual high standards.


That's impossible. Youth orchestra can play much better than this.

Tennstedt would leave the podium after hearing the first 4 bars.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Klemperer's Mahler 7 on EMI. I love his other Mahler recordings but, try as I might, I've never been able to get to grips with this.


Haha, that one's #18 on my list of greatest symphony recordings:

Greatest Symphony Recordings of All Time

1.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (3/1942)
2.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
3.	Mahler, Symphony No. 9 - Sir John Barbirolli (1960)
4.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/25/1947)
5.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 5 - Leopold Stokowski (1939)
6.	Mahler, Symphony No. 8 - Jascha Horenstein
7.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 2 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1954)
8.	Mahler, Symphony No. 1 - Bruno Walter (1939)
9.	Brahms, Symphony No. 1 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
10.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 3 (Eroica) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
11.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
12.	Mahler, Symphony No. 6 - Sir John Barbirolli 
13.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 9 - Vaclav Talich (1954)
14.	Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique - Pierre Monteux (1930)
15.	Brahms, Symphony No. 4/Mozart, Symphony No. 40 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1949)
16.	Prokofiev, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 5 - Serge Koussevitzky
17.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
18.	Mahler, Symphony No. 7 - Otto Klemperer
19.	Schubert, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
20.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 5 - Leonard Bernstein (1961)
21.	Mahler, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
22.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/23/54)
23.	Brahms, Symphony No. 2 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1945)
24.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 5 - Sir John Barbirolli 1944)
25.	Schumann, Symphony No. 4 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
26.	Sibelius, Symphonies Nos. 1-3 & 5 - Robert Kajanus 
27.	Mahler, Symphony No. 3 - F. Charles Adler (1952 studio)
28.	Beethoven, Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/53)
29.	Mahler, Symphony No. 5 - Jascha Horenstein
30.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 8 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957)
31.	Mahler, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1970) 
32.	Mozart, Symphonies Nos. 35-41 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1935-41)
33.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
34.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 8 - Yevgeny Mravinsky
35.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957) 
36.	Elgar, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 - Edward Elgar
37.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 7 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
38.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 7 - Serge Koussevitzky
39.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler
40.	Haydn, Symphonies Nos. 99-104 - Mogens Wöldike


----------



## Heck148

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I'm going to be controversial here and nominate Scherchen's Beethoven 3 with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra.


Scherchen's Mahler 5 & 7 VSOO are real stinkers, too...scrappy playing, a disjointed mess...
Scherchen's was my first exposure to Mahler 
5....i was already familiar with 2 &1, with Walter....i couldn't believe the same composer produced such a turkey as what i was hearing for #5!! Then i heard Walter and it all made sense....Scherchen was always good for laughs at parties....my LP copy was last seen imitating Frisbee, gliding over the Great Gorge at Letchworth State Park, NY...lol!!


----------



## flamencosketches

A propos of the current conversation, as far as the "legendary" old conductors go, I suspect I will never understand the appeal of Hermann Scherchen. I've heard a handful of recordings of his and they all strike me as quite bad, with that Mahler 5 being the worst offender. Scherchen fans, what am I missing?


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Haha, that one's #18 on my list of greatest symphony recordings:
> 
> Greatest Symphony Recordings of All Time
> 
> 1.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (3/1942)
> 2.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 3.	Mahler, Symphony No. 9 - Sir John Barbirolli (1960)
> 4.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/25/1947)
> 5.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 5 - Leopold Stokowski (1939)
> 6.	Mahler, Symphony No. 8 - Jascha Horenstein
> 7.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 2 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1954)
> 8.	Mahler, Symphony No. 1 - Bruno Walter (1939)
> 9.	Brahms, Symphony No. 1 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 10.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 3 (Eroica) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 11.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 12.	Mahler, Symphony No. 6 - Sir John Barbirolli
> 13.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 9 - Vaclav Talich (1954)
> 14.	Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique - Pierre Monteux (1930)
> 15.	Brahms, Symphony No. 4/Mozart, Symphony No. 40 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1949)
> 16.	Prokofiev, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 5 - Serge Koussevitzky
> 17.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 18.	Mahler, Symphony No. 7 - Otto Klemperer
> 19.	Schubert, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
> 20.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 5 - Leonard Bernstein (1961)
> 21.	Mahler, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
> 22.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/23/54)
> 23.	Brahms, Symphony No. 2 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1945)
> 24.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 5 - Sir John Barbirolli 1944)
> 25.	Schumann, Symphony No. 4 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
> 26.	Sibelius, Symphonies Nos. 1-3 & 5 - Robert Kajanus
> 27.	Mahler, Symphony No. 3 - F. Charles Adler (1952 studio)
> 28.	Beethoven, Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/53)
> 29.	Mahler, Symphony No. 5 - Jascha Horenstein
> 30.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 8 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957)
> 31.	Mahler, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1970)
> 32.	Mozart, Symphonies Nos. 35-41 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1935-41)
> 33.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
> 34.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 8 - Yevgeny Mravinsky
> 35.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957)
> 36.	Elgar, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 - Edward Elgar
> 37.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 7 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 38.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 7 - Serge Koussevitzky
> 39.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler
> 40.	Haydn, Symphonies Nos. 99-104 - Mogens Wöldike


All I see is Furtwangler in that list. 

Klemperer's Mahler 7th is a tremendous achievement. It's an "X-ray" approach that makes you understand the work like never before.


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

flamencosketches said:


> A propos of the current conversation, as far as the "legendary" old conductors go, I suspect I will never understand the appeal of Hermann Scherchen. I've heard a handful of recordings of his and they all strike me as quite bad, with that Mahler 5 being the worst offender. Scherchen fans, what am I missing?


I am no Scherchen fan but I could definitely understand the appeal: VSOO was clearly not up to the task of what Scherchen tries to do but nonetheless it was a wild ride and a freak show (in a good way) that makes modern recordings seems like having afternoon teas at the back garden.


----------



## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> A propos of the current conversation, as far as the "legendary" old conductors go, I suspect I will never understand the appeal of Hermann Scherchen. I've heard a handful of recordings of his and they all strike me as quite bad, with that Mahler 5 being the worst offender. Scherchen fans, what am I missing?


He was quite the individualist, i guess...I'm with you...never did much for me....


----------



## Heck148

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> I am no Scherchen fan but I could definitely understand the appeal: VSOO was clearly not up to the task of what Scherchen tries to do but nonetheless it was a wild ride and a freak show (in a good way) that makes modern recordings seems like having afternoon teas at the back garden.


In defense of the VSOO, these recordings may have been made right after a full opera performance....4 hours of Wagner, then go record "Eroica" at midnite?? Fatigue could certainly be a factor....


----------



## UniversalTuringMachine

Heck148 said:


> In defense of the VSOO, these recordings may have been made right after a full opera performance....4 hours of Wagner, then go record "Eroica" at midnite?? Fatigue could certainly be a factor....


Thanks for pointing that out, and I somehow doubt that Mahler himself would conduct the 5th like say, Haitink or Sinopoli.

I have to admit when it comes to an explosive Mahler 5th performance, Solti CSO is definitely the Tsar Bomba of them all. I would need to have some Grieg lyric pieces after listening to that.


----------



## Heck148

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> Thanks for pointing that out, and I somehow doubt that Mahler himself would conduct the 5th like say, Haitink or Sinopoli.


There is a piano roll version of Mahler playing Sym #5/I - sounds a lot like Walter!! Or vice versa as the case may be!!



> I have to admit when it comes to an explosive Mahler 5th performance, Solti CSO is definitely the Tsar Bomba of them all. I would need to have some Grieg lyric pieces after listenineg to that.


Yes, it's amazing...I heard them play it live in Carnegie Hall 3/70, a concert that has attained "legendary" status...incredible....most amazing concert I've ever heard...audience went nuts, SO for at least half an hour...


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

Bernstein’s late DG Dvořák 9 with the Israel Phil is a hideous one that jumps out to me. His earlier account in New York is one of the most exciting versions of that symphony I know, but this one is everything people hate about Lenny dragged out to 200% the amount he usually does.


----------



## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Haha, that one's #18 on my list of greatest symphony recordings:
> 
> Greatest Symphony Recordings of All Time
> 
> 1.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (3/1942)
> 2.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 3.	Mahler, Symphony No. 9 - Sir John Barbirolli (1960)
> 4.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/25/1947)
> 5.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 5 - Leopold Stokowski (1939)
> 6.	Mahler, Symphony No. 8 - Jascha Horenstein
> 7.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 2 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1954)
> 8.	Mahler, Symphony No. 1 - Bruno Walter (1939)
> 9.	Brahms, Symphony No. 1 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 10.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 3 (Eroica) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 11.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1944)
> 12.	Mahler, Symphony No. 6 - Sir John Barbirolli
> 13.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 9 - Vaclav Talich (1954)
> 14.	Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique - Pierre Monteux (1930)
> 15.	Brahms, Symphony No. 4/Mozart, Symphony No. 40 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1949)
> 16.	Prokofiev, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 5 - Serge Koussevitzky
> 17.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 18.	Mahler, Symphony No. 7 - Otto Klemperer
> 19.	Schubert, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
> 20.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 5 - Leonard Bernstein (1961)
> 21.	Mahler, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
> 22.	Beethoven, Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique) - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/23/54)
> 23.	Brahms, Symphony No. 2 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1945)
> 24.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 5 - Sir John Barbirolli 1944)
> 25.	Schumann, Symphony No. 4 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1953)
> 26.	Sibelius, Symphonies Nos. 1-3 & 5 - Robert Kajanus
> 27.	Mahler, Symphony No. 3 - F. Charles Adler (1952 studio)
> 28.	Beethoven, Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (5/53)
> 29.	Mahler, Symphony No. 5 - Jascha Horenstein
> 30.	Dvorak, Symphony No. 8 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957)
> 31.	Mahler, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1970)
> 32.	Mozart, Symphonies Nos. 35-41 - Sir Thomas Beecham (1935-41)
> 33.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 4 - Willem Mengelberg
> 34.	Shostakovich, Symphony No. 8 - Yevgeny Mravinsky
> 35.	Vaughan Williams, Symphony No. 2 - Sir John Barbirolli (1957)
> 36.	Elgar, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 - Edward Elgar
> 37.	Bruckner, Symphony No. 7 - Wilhelm Furtwängler (1951)
> 38.	Sibelius, Symphony No. 7 - Serge Koussevitzky
> 39.	Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 5 - Wilhelm Furtwängler
> 40.	Haydn, Symphonies Nos. 99-104 - Mogens Wöldike


I think it's somewhat obtuse to do a thread on the worst symphony recordings of all time and even more so for someone to put his greatest symphony recordings of all time on it:lol:


----------

