# Finale:Ma dall'arrido stelo divulsa. Cigna, Arrangi-Lombardi, Welitsch, Callas



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Other than dear Viva... everyone else was bored with today's contest so we are moving on. Let's do something fun to clear the air and pick the winner for this very popular contest. There was a tie. Because Callas is in this you are REQUiRED to pick two favorites to keep this worthwhile. Many of you won't need to rewatch the videos but here they are.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

In recent contests, I voted for both Cigna and Arangi-Lombardi, so the choice is between those singers. Pitted against each other, it’s a tough choice. I’ll vote for Cigna, because she gives off a sense of anguish and terror that I find lacking in Arangi-Lombardi’s traversal, and Cigna uses all of her voice, including the chest, which Arangi-Lombardi eschews. 

My benchmark for this aria, as with many others, is Maria Callas. In this instance, this is from a live performance, recorded on opening night at La Scala in 1957 when she was in good voice, compact and sure up to high C. This is her first time singing the role in the theater.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Not going to listen again and just go with the impression left by the first hearings. 

Y'all are a bunch of Callas-nuts and you're turning me into one! I don't find the circumstances of Ballo overly compelling. But these singers, because they are invested in their various ways so fully in the music, give it the human dignity that I'm sure Verdi hoped for. And along that line nobody makes Amelia more compelling than Callas (51 or 57). If I listen casually her sound won't command my attention, recognizable as it is, the way Caballe or Schwarzkopf or Flagstad will. But if I'm paying attention she brings me into the human drama of an aria, line by line, in a way that puts her in the front group of any list of sopranos.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Oh dear me! This is tough. It uses up all my strength just to go back and forth, back and forth between two.
Callas' typical sound is overwhelming, even over that powerful orchestra, and is mesmerizing to this ear to say the least, but trying to be fair I swear that the one that really touches my heart for it's sounds of fear and sadness is Arangi-Lombardi. The way she addressed the end of the aria was poignant. 
Maria already knows I adore her but my vote is going to go to Arangi-Lombardi, with a smile and a tip of my cap to Maria as well.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sorry I didn't realise until it was too late that I was supposed to vote for two favourites. Had I done so, I'd have gone for Cigna.

That said I have absolutely no hesitation giving the palm to Callas in full flight on stage in an actual production of the opera with Gavazzeni giving her all the support she needs. This is what opera is all about and I can only dream about what it must have been like to hear and see such a performance live.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Oops! I am afraid I did not see the caveat that I must vote for 2 and only ticked Arangi-Lombardi, but my post sure indicates who my other choice would have clearly been -- Callas.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Just by the way, why does the clock in this opera strike only six times at midnight?


----------



## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

I don’t wish to reiterate the same opinions I stated on each of these singers, but in short, Welitsch is not so Italianate, and Cigna more a verist than a Verdian. That leaves Callas and Arangi-Lombardi, and thanks to Seattleoperafan, I don’t have to choose between them. Both of them sing extremely well, their bel-canto schooling very apparent, though Callas is as usual more dramatic. It helps though that hers is a live performance unlike Arangi-Lombardi’s, and I’m sure that Lombardi would have sounded even better live without the impediments of the then-primitive recording techniques.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Just by the way, why does the clock in this opera strike only six times at midnight?


I wondered the same when I first heard it. I suppose Verdi didn't want the public and the _prima donna _ to wait for another six strikes - the urgency would've been lost.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> I wondered the same when I first heard it. I suppose Verdi didn't want the public and the _prima donna _ to wait for another six strikes - the urgency would've been lost.


I've always assumed that was the case too.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I wondered the same when I first heard it. I suppose Verdi didn't want the public and the _prima donna _ to wait for another six strikes - the urgency would've been lost.


He takes a different approach in _Falstaff,_ where the harmony changes on each of the 12 strokes.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Not going to listen again and just go with the impression left by the first hearings.
> 
> Y'all are a bunch of Callas-nuts and you're turning me into one! I don't find the circumstances of Ballo overly compelling. But these singers, because they are invested in their various ways so fully in the music, give it the human dignity that I'm sure Verdi hoped for. And along that line nobody makes Amelia more compelling than Callas (51 or 57). If I listen casually her sound won't command my attention, recognizable as it is, the way Caballe or Schwarzkopf or Flagstad will. But if I'm paying attention she brings me into the human drama of an aria, line by line, in a way that puts her in the front group of any list of sopranos.


Take the passage at about 4:30 _Ha negli occhi Il baleno dell'ira_ after the _Mezzanote_ bell clangs. Notice how she "vibrates the voice" (advice she gave one of the students in her masterclasses) to create excitement and give the phrase more tension. Listen to the others and see how flat the other versions are.

Callas' arias are always full of these touches; how does she do it? I doubt Elvira de Hidalgo, her teacher ever sang like this; nor do I think Tullio Serafin, who coached her early on, could've imparted these secrets. She was as faithful to the score as she was able - Shirley Verrett said that listening to Callas was like taking dictation.

But surely she went beyond what the composer asks for: note values, dynamics, etc., otherwise everyone could sing like her, but none can or do.

I should note, that the above is true only if her voice is functioning correctly, though she could do amazing things even if the voice was going.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It brings me fulfillment to see you people so passionately invested in your choices I love this aria so much.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I also forgot to vote twice. Alluring as Welitsch is its between Cigna and Arangi-Lombardi. The veristic vs. Verdi never occurred to me so I wont pretend it matters now....although I will go back for a listen with that in mind. Sensuously beautiful sound vs the whole picture, a little bit of everything asked for...Cigna! ( that is...if I could still vote  )


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Just by the way, why does the clock in this opera strike only six times at midnight?


Not going to check but in the beginning of Trovatore doesn't he address the same problem and come up with another questionable answer...a super quick twelve count! Do I have that right?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> Not going to check but in the beginning of Trovatore doesn't he address the same problem and come up with another questionable answer...a super quick twelve count! Do I have that right?


I haven't heard the beginning of _Trovatore_ in decades. Hopefully someone here has the answer.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Not going to check but in the beginning of Trovatore doesn't he address the same problem and come up with another questionable answer...a super quick twelve count! Do I have that right?


I think it's difficult to tell, as the chorus and orchestra cover the bells, which don't toll as much as clang rapidly and blend into the orchestral and chorus _tutti_. It happens during the _cabaletta_ to _Abietta Zingara_ at the end of the first Act.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> Take the passage at about 4:30 _Ha negli occhi Il baleno dell'ira_ after the _Mezzanote_ bell clangs. Notice how she "vibrates the voice" .


MAS....I hope I've made it clear that I have nothing but respect for your opinions and seek them out.......BUT......if my attention is drawn to that passage......it sounds like the beginning of a wobble due to pressure. Not a full fledged wobble or anything I'd complain about but......are you sure its an artistic decision? (WHATEVER Maria says!!!....I've got Carlo Bergonzi explaining in an interview the "adolescent haze" he created for a note above C on an early verdi aria and all I hear is "Wooohhh Carlo....don't try that again!")


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> MAS....I hope I've made it clear that I have nothing but respect for your opinions and seek them out.......BUT......if my attention is drawn to that passage......it sounds like the beginning of a wobble due to pressure. Not a full fledged wobble or anything I'd complain about but......are you sure its an artistic decision? (WHATEVER Maria says!!!....I've got Carlo Bergonzi explaining in an interview the "adolescent haze" he created for a note above C on an early verdi aria and all I hear is "Wooohhh Carlo....don't try that again!")


I'm not necessariy tarring you with this brush, but sometimes I feel that critics spend so much time listening for faults in Callas's execution (usually for any passing unsteadiness) that they forget the bigger picture. Callas was never about note spinning. She was always about searching for dramatic truth and this, even in her glory days, could lead to moments of unsteadiness or harsh tone.

There are many such stories, but I recall one that Rescigno told about her Covent Garden *Traviatas*. When it came to _Addio del passato_ and its final A, she would attempt such a frail, thread of sound that the note would become unsteady or crack. Rescigno kept telling her to give the note a bit more oomph to stop that happening, but she wouldn't compromise. Even if her voice cracked, she had to strive for her dramatic truth.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

A little tar is just the whip cream on top of my post!!! I do want to point out though that I was commenting on a section that MAS was bringing my attention to... not exactly the same as listening for faults. 

BUTTTTT....you did make me think immediately of a similar moment with Maria’s baritone counterpart… beloved Tito! Bocanegra has a long held soft… I believe it’s an F ...at the end of the figlia duet and Gobbi’s recording has the same kind of “is it a voice breaking?” or “is it the character breaking?” question to it.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'm not necessariy tarring you with this brush, but sometimes I feel that critics spend so much time listening for faults in Callas's execution (usually for any passing unsteadiness) that they forget the bigger picture. Callas was never about note spinning. She was always about searching for dramatic truth and this, even in her glory days, could lead to moments of unsteadiness or harsh tone.
> 
> There are many such stories, but I recall one that Rescigno told about her Covent Garden *Traviatas*. When it came to _Addio del passato_ and its final A, she would attempt such a frail, thread of sound that the note would become unsteady or crack. Rescigno kept telling her to give the note a bit more oomph to stop that happening, but she wouldn't compromise. Even if her voice cracked, she had to strive for her dramatic truth.


Tsaraslondon:
I know it's late in the game for me and maybe I didn't actually see and hear what I think I did on a video where Volpe (I believe) told Maria that her last note has to be improved upon and she replied with words to the effect that, "this is a woman who is dying and I must show her to be frail and fragile so I will not be singing a perfect note." (these are my words)

Now it's perfectly possible that she actually knew she couldn't do that note well and it was just a neat way for her to make an excuse for it.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Tsaraslondon:
> I know it's late in the game for me and maybe I didn't actually see and hear what I think I did on a video where Volpe (I believe) told Maria that her last note has to be improved upon and she replied with words to the effect that, "this is a woman who is dying and I must show her to be frail and fragile so I will not be singing a perfect note." (these are my words)
> 
> Now it's perfectly possible that she actually knew she couldn't do that note well and it was just a neat way for her to make an excuse for it.


I don't know who Volpe is, or what he had to do with the Covent Garden Traviatas, but if you think Callas would make compromises in performance to suit her voice then you don't know anything about Callas.

Zeffirelli also recalls that when she was doing those final Normas in Paris, when she was only comfortable in about 70% of the music, she flatly refused to make things easy for herself when the going got tough. On one occasion she apparently missed a top C completely and the audience went wild, shouting and booing. She then actually stopped the performance, indicating that the conductor should start the phrase again and this time hit the note perfectly. The audience went even more wild. Every single person who worked with her, conductors and directors, attest to her absolutely uncompromising attitude to her work and her absolute devotion to doing justice to what the composer put in the score.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> MAS....I hope I've made it clear that I have nothing but respect for your opinions and seek them out.......BUT......if my attention is drawn to that passage......it sounds like the beginning of a wobble due to pressure. Not a full fledged wobble or anything I'd complain about but......are you sure its an artistic decision? (WHATEVER Maria says!!!....I've got Carlo Bergonzi explaining in an interview the "adolescent haze" he created for a note above C on an early verdi aria and all I hear is "Wooohhh Carlo....don't try that again!")


Callas certainly puts a lot of pressure on her voice in certain passages, and I get your point of view… in hindsight (Callas=wobble)… but I think it is an artistic decision; anyone is free to disagree, as you obviously do, and make a case for it.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't know who Volpe is, or what he had to do with the Covent Garden Traviatas, but if you think Callas would make compromises in performance to suit her voice then you don't know anything about Callas.
> 
> Zeffirelli also recalls that when she was doing those final Normas in Paris, when she was only comfortable in about 70% of the music, she flatly refused to make things easy for herself when the going got tough. On one occasion she apparently missed a top C completely and the audience went wild, shouting and booing. She then actually stopped the performance, indicating that the conductor should start the phrase again and this time hit the note perfectly. The audience went even more wild. Every single person who worked with her, conductors and directors, attest to her absolutely uncompromising attitude to her work and her absolute devotion to doing justice to what the composer put in the score.


Forgive me if I used the wrong words in expressing what Callas was saying in this (so-called video) that I believe I saw. Of course she was a consummate believer in the music first and I would never even consider that she would think otherwise.
Also I was mistaken about Joseph Volpe being the Met GM at the time. It was Schuyler Chapin I was thinking of.(You might not recognize that name either). 
I think you would have had to see the video to understand what she was expressing to him and it was many years ago (circa '72/3/4??) so I cannot recall her words. 
I am pretty sure there is a video out there with her discussing "Addio del passato" but if one does not know the Met GM's it is likely it would be difficult to trace this video.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Forgive me if I used the wrong words in expressing what Callas was saying in this (so-called video) that I believe I saw. Of course she was a consummate believer in the music first and I would never even consider that she would think otherwise.
> Also I was mistaken about Joseph Volpe being the Met GM at the time. It was Schuyler Chapin I was thinking of.(You might not recognize that name either).
> I think you would have had to see the video to understand what she was expressing to him and it was many years ago (circa '72/3/4??) so I cannot recall her words.
> I am pretty sure there is a video out there with her discussing "Addio del passato" but if one does not know the Met GM's it is likely it would be difficult to trace this video.


nina foresti - Neither Volpe nor Chaplin had anything to do with Covent Garden. Callas may have discussed it with Nicola Rescigno, the conductor. The recollections may have been those of Sir David Webster, _Intendant _ of The a Royal Opera House (I think) or Lord Harewood.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> nina foresti - Neither Volpe nor Chaplin had anything to do with Covent Garden. Callas may have discussed it with Nicola Rescigno, the conductor. The recollections may have been those of Sir David Webster, _Intendant _ of The a Royal Opera House (I think) or Lord Harewood.


Yes I know. I am confusing it with something else. I sometimes forget this is a website that is sometimes centered more on European opera than the Met. There is someone out there who knows exactly what I am referring to but I doubt it will be on this particular website. So as Emily Litella would say, "Never Mi-i-ind!" 
(I know: "Who's Emily Litella!) LOL


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Yes I know. I am confusing it with something else. I sometimes forget this is a website that is sometimes centered more on European opera than the Met. There is someone out there who knows exactly what I am referring to but I doubt it will be on this particular website. So as Emily Litella would say, "Never Mi-i-ind!"
> (I know: "Who's Emily Litella!) LOL


And of course Callas's whole career was centred in Europe. She only sang for two seasons at the Met (1956 and 1958) and didn't much like singing there when she did due to having to perform in old, under-rehearsed productions often with a different supporting cast from night to night. She returned for two performances of *Tosca* in 1965. She was treated far better in Chicago and Dallas, but they too only got two seasons each out of her. She sang throughout Italy of course with La Scala becoming her cultural home from 1951 to 1958, and first sang at Covent Garden in 1952, returning in 1953, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1964 and 1965, which was the last time she sang on a stage anywhere.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> And of course Callas's whole career was centred in Europe. She only sang for two seasons at the Met (1956 and 1958) and didn't much like singing there when she did due to having to perform in old, under-rehearsed productions often with a different supporting cast from night to night. She returned for two performances of *Tosca* in 1965. She was treated far better in Chicago and Dallas, but they too only got two seasons each out of her. She sang throughout Italy of course with La Scala becoming her cultural home from 1951 to 1958, and first sang at Covent Garden in 1952, returning in 1953, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1964 and 1965, which was the last time she sang on a stage anywhere.


Was the Met generally like that in it's productions or did it get better? The time I went it was stellar.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Was the Met generally like that in it's productions or did it get better? The time I went it was stellar.


I think things improved a great deal after Bing left. Certainly by the time Callas sang at the Met, she was used to much higher standards. Almost all the productions she appeared in at La Scala were new, directed by great producers like Visconti, Zeffirelli, Margarita Wallman and Karajan himself (the famous *Lucia di Lammermoor*), with fabulous designs by the likes of Nicola Benois and Lila di Nobili. On the other hand, Bing would never give her adequate stage rehearsal time, which, when you consider she could barely see on stage, made life even harder for her. She also complained about the casts changing so much that she sometimes didn't know whom she would be singing with until she got on stage. When she did the Alexis Minotis produced *Medea* in Dallas and gave that interview after Bing had effectively sacked her, she complained about the Met's "tired, old productions" and "routine" performances.

I'm not an expert on the Met and I've only been once (an excellent production of Floyd's *Susannah* starring Renée Fleming), but I've got the impression from various books and articles that Bing thought stars meant bums on seats and therefore more revenue. Most European houses were state funded, so they could be more adventurous.

Funnily enough, the only new production Callas appeared in at Covent Garden was the famous Zeffirelli *Tosca*, though the *Medea* was the same Dallas production she'd appeared in the previous year. Like most theatres and opera houses in Europe, Covent Garden struggled in the years after the war. I read a review of the *Il Trovatore* she did there in 1953 in which the critic complained about the dreadfully shabby sets (though not about the singing). She liked working at Covent Garden though, because they always treated her with respect and gave her the rehearsal time she wanted. She always felt she was battling with Bing.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Was the Met generally like that in it's productions or did it get better? The time I went it was stellar.


I began going to the Met in 70, essentially at the end of Bing, during the brief Schuyler Chapin period. He took over when Goeran Gentele died before actually doing the job. . Then came the troika of August Everding, Rafael Kubelik and Levine -- You "Carmellite"s lovers, this is when the Met put up its famous production -- followed by years of Levine.

It's clear that the night in, night out approach of Bing was just what has been described...singers being stuck into casts with little or no preparation, all the time. The Met annals are filled with "Same cast as November 3 but Colzani, Kirsten for Merrill, Price"! I've always assumed that that was the way it had always been done. Levine got away from that.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I think things improved a great deal after Bing left. Certainly by the time Callas sang at the Met, she was used to much higher standards. Almost all the productions she appeared in at La Scala were new, directed by great producers like Visconti, Zeffirelli, Margarita Wallman and Karajan himself (the famous *Lucia di Lammermoor*), with fabulous designs by the likes of Nicola Benois and Lila di Nobili. On the other hand, Bing would never give her adequate stage rehearsal time, which, when you consider she could barely see on stage, made life even harder for her. She also complained about the casts changing so much that she sometimes didn't know whom she would be singing with until she got on stage. When she did the Alexis Minotis produced *Medea* in Dallas and gave that interview after she complained about the Met's "tired, old productions" and "routine" performances.
> 
> I'm not an expert on the Met and I've only been once (an excellent production of Floyd's *Susannah* starring Renée Fleming), but I've got the impression from various books and articles that Bing thought stars meant bums on seats and therefore more revenue. Most European houses were state funded, so they could be more adventurous.
> 
> Funnily enough, the only new production Callas appeared in at Covent Garden was the famous Zeffirelli *Tosca*, though the *Medea* was the same Dallas production she'd appeared in the previous year. Like most theatres and opera houses in Europe, Covent Garden struggled in the years after the war. I read a review of the *Il Trovatore* she did there in 1953 in which the critic complained about the dreadfully shabby sets (though not about the singing). She liked working at Covent Garden though, because they always treated her with respect and gave her the rehearsal time she wanted. She always felt she was battling with Bing.


The things you know, boy!!! I wonder why contacts didn't work for Callas or were they too new. I can't wear them anymore as my eyes have dried out over the years.


----------

