# Haydn - London Symphony Sets



## HaydnBearstheClock

I think I've posted a thread on this before but seeing as though we have some new members and that opinions change over time, I'd like to ask the question again: favourite interpretations of London symphonies?

So far I'm personally familiar with two sets:

Guenther Herbig, Dresdner Philharmonie (full set)

and Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orchestra/New Philharmonia Orchestra (88, 92, 95, 98, 100, 101, 102, 104).

The Herbig has a very fine, bright and sprightly orchestral sound and a wonderful, clear sound in the winds. The only drawbacks are the tempi, which I find, a lot of time, to be a bit rushed.

The Klemperer, on the other hand, has more appropriate tempi imo but does not quite have Herbig's excellent orchestral sound. 

I've been thinking of discovering the Harnoncourt, Solti or Sir Colin Davies sets - can anyone provide comparisons between these?

Thanks,
HBC.


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## Itullian

Don't overlook the Jochum. A wonderful set.


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## DaDirkNL

Another good one is the Adam Fischer with the Austrio-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra. 
That's the only one I have, and I quite like it. I don't really know about the recordings you mention.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Itullian said:


> Don't overlook the Jochum. A wonderful set.


Yes, I've heard the Jochum before - I really liked his symphony 95 and I remember that the Finales to symphonies 97 and 103 were excellent - very powerful. Will look into it, thanks .


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## Alydon

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I've been thinking of discovering the Harnoncourt, Solti or Sir Colin Davies sets - can anyone provide comparisons between these?
> 
> Thanks,
> HBC.


I think the London symphonies need more than one set in any collection and the Davies set has long been thought of as a classic, as has the first full recording of all the symphonies - Antal Dorati's on Decca, which seems to vary in price month to month.

As personal favourites I have always liked the old fashioned Beecham set - a grand approach if ever there was one; the bang up to date set by Marc Minkowski which is 'live,' and the on-going set of all Haydn's symphonies by Thomas Fey which isn't to everyone's taste, but for me are always exciting and a good contrast to the more traditional approach.

I think out of the ones you mention the Davies set is the best all round, but as mentioned the Jochum set has always faired well, but all the versions available have something to offer. The only sets I haven't liked are the Bernstein & Karajan sets which although 'big band' like Beecham, haven't stood the test of time for this listener.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Alydon said:


> I think the London symphonies need more than one set in any collection and the Davies set has long been thought of as a classic, as has the first full recording of all the symphonies - Antal Dorati's on Decca, which seems to vary in price month to month.
> 
> As personal favourites I have always liked the old fashioned Beecham set - a grand approach if ever there was one; the bang up to date set by Marc Minkowski which is 'live,' and the on-going set of all Haydn's symphonies by Thomas Fey which isn't to everyone's taste, but for me are always exciting and a good contrast to the more traditional approach.
> 
> I think out of the ones you mention the Davies set is the best all round, but as mentioned the Jochum set has always faired well, but all the versions available have something to offer. The only sets I haven't liked are the Bernstein & Karajan sets which although 'big band' like Beecham, haven't stood the test of time for this listener.


Thanks for your reviews, Alydon. Are you familiar with Norrington's or Harnoncourt's readings? These two have also interested me and sounded good from the samples I've heard.


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## Itullian

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I think I've posted a thread on this before but seeing as though we have some new members and that opinions change over time, I'd like to ask the question again: favourite interpretations of London symphonies?
> 
> So far I'm personally familiar with two sets:
> 
> Guenther Herbig, Dresdner Philharmonie (full set)
> 
> and Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orchestra/New Philharmonia Orchestra (88, 92, 95, 98, 100, 101, 102, 104).
> 
> The Herbig has a very fine, bright and sprightly orchestral sound and a wonderful, clear sound in the winds. The only drawbacks are the tempi, which I find, a lot of time, to be a bit rushed.
> 
> The Klemperer, on the other hand, has more appropriate tempi imo but does not quite have Herbig's excellent orchestral sound.
> 
> I've been thinking of discovering the Harnoncourt, Solti or Sir Colin Davies sets - can anyone provide comparisons between these?
> 
> Thanks,
> HBC.


My take 
The Harnoncourt are strange and abrasive to me. I don't really care for anything he does.

The Solti are a bit driven, but well recorded. not a top rec.

The Davis are classic, well recorded and spiritually uplifting. A great set.

I also love Bernstein's Haydn. I think Lenny "gets it". Big band Haydn and great.

And of course the classic Dorati. Sensible tempi, transparent warm sound.

Beecham is also wonderful, but not all in stereo.

Jochum is wonderful with high spirited fast paced last movements. Beautifully recorded.


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## Alydon

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Thanks for your reviews, Alydon. Are you familiar with Norrington's or Harnoncourt's readings? These two have also interested me and sounded good from the samples I've heard.


I'm familiar with these recordings but for me don't show anything more than the others I have mentioned, though I have Harnoncourt's set of the Paris symphonies which were quite revolutionary on their release and are very enjoyable except the conductor insisted on playing every repeat which even for such great music is over the top. Norrington's set is very much like Howard Shelleys and doesn't come up to any of the mentioned above. There was a very fine set by the Little Orchestra of London directed by Leslie Jones which for some reason has never appeared on CD but was available on LPs, I well remembered this set and from memory it had the right kind of verve and grandeur these works demand.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Alydon said:


> I'm familiar with these recordings but for me don't show anything more than the others I have mentioned, though I have Harnoncourt's set of the Paris symphonies which were quite revolutionary on their release and are very enjoyable except the conductor insisted on playing every repeat which even for such great music is over the top. Norrington's set is very much like Howard Shelleys and doesn't come up to any of the mentioned above. There was a very fine set by the Little Orchestra of London directed by Leslie Jones which for some reason has never appeared on CD but was available on LPs, I well remembered this set and from memory it had the right kind of verve and grandeur these works demand.


I've heard many of the Leslie Jones London symphonies on Youtube and have to agree that they are very good. They should be re-issued as they seem to receive unanimous praise.

P.S. - it should've read 'Davis' not 'Davies' in my previous posts .


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## Überstürzter Neumann

I don't have the necessary technical knowledge to go into any detailed description, but I think that the version of Frans Brüggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century deserves consideration.


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## Aramis

Lennart said:


> I don't have the necessary technical knowledge to go into any detailed description, but I think that the version of Frans Brüggen and Orchestra of the 18th Century deserves consideration.


I got it just recently, it certainly does deserve consideration. I think it's relatively early HIP ensamble and not the best on record, but I'm not aware of any competition when it comes to complete sets of London Symphonies. For those who really care about Haydn and classical period, it's almost obligatory choice.


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## Überstürzter Neumann

I am glad to hear that. This is my preferred set among those I own - apart from Brüggen I have Bernstein, Davis, Fischer and Harnoncourt - even if I feel that I ought to explore Harnoncourt a bit more. That man is awesome.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Lennart said:


> I am glad to hear that. This is my preferred set among those I own - apart from Brüggen I have Bernstein, Davis, Fischer and Harnoncourt - even if I feel that I ought to explore Harnoncourt a bit more. That man is awesome.


I do remember liking Bruggen's Symphony No. 48 a lot .


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## tovaris

Nothing better than Dorati.


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## Llyranor

I have the Bruggen, though it's the only set I have (alongside with Paris + Sturm & Drang with the same conductor) so I can't compare it. I have to say I really really really like Bruggen's Haydn, though. It led me to hunting down his interpretations of Mozart, Beethoven, and Mendelssohn.


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## DebussyDoesDallas

I'm still absorbing all the sets in my collection--Bernstein, Davies, Davis, Szell, Dorati, Fisher, several other singles by various conductors mentioned above--and for overall power, excitement, and feeling I'm leaning toward Lenny and Sir Colin Davis, especially the latter.


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## Haydn man

Well have to say the Colin Davis versions really seem good to me but you can't go wrong with Dorati either


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Haydn man said:


> Well have to say the Colin Davis versions really seem good to me but you can't go wrong with Dorati either


I'll need to check out the Colin Davis set, it's been getting a lot of praise here . Ah, Dorati - there's a CD I've been keeping my eye on, with symphonies 94, 100 and 101, another contender, hehe.


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## Haydn man

Well have to say the Colin Davis versions really seem good to me but you can't go wrong with Dorati either


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## david johnson

there is one answer only - you must buy them all!!


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## HaydnBearstheClock

david johnson said:


> there is one answer only - you must buy them all!!


Hehe, quite an investment. So far, I have a complete set by Günther Herbig and Klemperer's recordings (which don't contain all of the London symphonies). Although I'm quite devoted to Haydn, so who knows, maybe I'll get around to buying more sets sometime.


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## AndorFoldes

Ahh... the London symphonies.

Tell you what, the best version is by Colin Davis. Very pleasing recordings in warm and nicely balanced sound. Davis was a hummer, but this is not a problem here.

Nikolaus Harnoncourt is highly original in these works, too much for some, and the recordings are early digital.

The recordings by Eugen Jochum are very good except for the instrumental balance that completely obscures the brass and timpani.

Thomas Beecham is joyful and witty, but the 1950s recordings are not quite up to it.


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## BiggusD

Karajan's set is nice and cheap on DG.


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## Chi_townPhilly

BiggusD said:


> Karajan's set is nice and cheap on DG.


Well- it *is* cheap.

Take this for what it's worth- in the interest of full-disclosure, I present the following disclaimers:

1) I'm not exactly a Haydn enthusiast-- so those who are will probably be able to speak more authoritatively than me.

2) I *don't* dislike Karajan-- he's probably better-represented than any other conductor in my collection, except Solti.

That said- I don't know what he tried to do with the Haydn symphonies. I wouldn't recommend him for this repertoire. [It's really strange, because I think HvK's Mozart is entirely serviceable.]

Add me to the list of people who've mentioned Dorati... that is, unless you're dedicated to getting a HIP or period-instrument performance. If you are, others can advise you better than I can concerning this.


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## Brahmsian Colors

I've owned sets and individual performances with Klemperer, Dorati, Beecham, Davis, Szell and Scherchen. Though generally a fan of Klemperer, I have never been particularly drawn to his Haydn. Dorati on London/Decca can be pleasing, but occasionally goes over the top, and from time to time lacks refinement. While mostly fine, Beecham can occasionally be too civilized. Szell, not surprisingly, tends to be clean, precise, decidedly dynamic and very impressive. Scherchen projects sincerity, nobility, power and excitement but sometimes doesn't hesitate to take a no holds barred approach which others may criticize as lacking refinement. This leaves Davis, who has the wonderful sounding Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra at his service. Though he can sound somewhat boring at times, he more often than not impresses me as lively and dynamic, yet balanced and musical. The Concertgebouw also imparts a nice sense of clear, warm detail. Though no set may be perfect, if it's a set one wants, my chief modern recommendation would be Davis. For individual performances, Szell is hard to beat. Finally, for a rather special experience with a good dose of Haydn's Symphonies, Scherchen might be your man. Look for his DG Original Masters set of 1950s performances, mostly in mono with some in stereo. Good listening to all!

ps...I have not heard enough of Jochum's or Bernstein's Haydn to offer any observations.


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## Pugg

I would not be without the Dorati set, but I do like Bernstein also.


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## Mal

Haydn67 said:


> Szell, not surprisingly, tends to be clean, precise, decidedly dynamic and very impressive.


I've just listened to his version of Mozart's "Haffner" symphony and was blown away; now I need more Szell...



Haydn67 said:


> This leaves Davis, who has the wonderful sounding Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra at his service. Though he can sound somewhat boring at times, he more often than not impresses me as lively and dynamic, yet balanced and musical. The Concertgebouw also imparts a nice sense of clear, warm detail.


I've had this for many years and agree with your estimation. It gets played with moderate pleasure when I run through the canonical classics. That "can sound somewhat boring at times" is a bit of fault though, and I'm not sure it's Haydn's . No set is ever perfect, and if you dig into individual recommendations it is often remarkable what you can find. With a fair wind, "somewhat boring at times" can be converted into "intensely exciting throughout" (as with Szell's Haffner...)

I'd get a good guidebook, or five, and compare all the top recommendations for each individual symphony on spotify/utube. Then buy them one by one. Then you end up with many exciting CDs, rather than several rather boring box sets. "Third Ear" has some good looking recommendations. I'm tempted to go through this process with late Haydn, as it worked so well with late Mozart.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Mal said:


> I've just listened to his version of Mozart's "Haffner" symphony and was blown away; now I need more Szell...
> 
> I've had this for many years and agree with your estimation. It gets played with moderate pleasure when I run through the canonical classics. That "can sound somewhat boring at times" is a bit of fault though, and I'm not sure it's Haydn's . No set is ever perfect, and if you dig into individual recommendations it is often remarkable what you can find. With a fair wind, "somewhat boring at times" can be converted into "intensely exciting throughout" (as with Szell's Haffner...)
> 
> I'd get a good guidebook, or five, and compare all the top recommendations for each individual symphony on spotify/utube. Then buy them one by one. Then you end up with many exciting CDs, rather than several rather boring box sets. "Third Ear" has some good looking recommendations. I'm tempted to go through this process with late Haydn, as it worked so well with late Mozart.


Hi Mal... I'm happy to hear you found something you liked concerning Szell's "Haffner", and hope you find more enjoyment in other interpretations of his. On Davis' Haydn, my reference to moments of boredom pertains to what I perceive as the conductor's occasional tendency to sound either too slow or too polite. Since this is a rather subjective characterization on my part, I suspect others might disagree. Regardless, the most important thing, as we both know, is not how others feel, but how we personally feel when listening. Obviously, we enjoy very much the Davis/Concertgebouw Haydn London set....Unless you are already aware of and have taken adavantage of it, may I suggest you use the resources of You Tube(as I have)to listen to specific interpretations (if posted) of various conductors and orchestras so you can get an idea about whether or not you would like them enough to purchase them. I am fairly surprised at how many recordings have been uploaded to that site for listening and evaluation. Though the Third Ear and other publications supply evaluations of classical works by the critics, whose preferences we may or may not agree with, the opportunity to listen to performances on one's own is, I feel, a far more reliable approach to where or whether one intends to make an investment. Best wishes for success and satisfaction.:tiphat:


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## Mal

Haydn67 said:


> Hi Mal... I'm happy to hear you found something you liked concerning Szell's "Haffner", and hope you find more enjoyment in other interpretations of his. On Davis' Haydn, my reference to moments of boredom pertains to what I perceive as the conductor's occasional tendency to sound either too slow or too polite. Since this is a rather subjective characterization on my part, I suspect others might disagree.


I have the same feeling, sometimes I feel he could be more dynamic. I do use You Tube, although Spotify is my main streaming resource. Having been bitten in the past, I would not buy blind in these days of universal streaming, but one needs to start somewhere, and "Third Ear"often points out some gems, in my experience.

I just listened to Szell's "Surprise", and it is excellent.


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## JACE

For Haydn's symphonies (particularly the "London" set), I most frequently reach for *Scherchen* and *Jochum*.

A couple other Haydn symphony conductors that I particularly enjoy: Mogens Wöldike and Antonio Janigro.

I've never heard Davis or Dorati. Just haven't gotten 'round to them.

I guess I'm not much of a HIP-ster. I do have a few recordings by Brüggen. But I'm more drawn to the old-school guys.


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## Guest

Davis is glorious especially for non HIP-sters. Great orchestra and a fine recording.


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## JACE

Haydn67 said:


> I've owned sets and individual performances with Klemperer, Dorati, Beecham, Davis, Szell and Scherchen. Though generally a fan of Klemperer, I have never been particularly drawn to his Haydn. Dorati on London/Decca can be pleasing, but occasionally goes over the top, and from time to time lacks refinement. While mostly fine, Beecham can occasionally be too civilized. Szell, not surprisingly, tends to be clean, precise, decidedly dynamic and very impressive. *Scherchen projects sincerity, nobility, power and excitement but sometimes doesn't hesitate to take a no holds barred approach which others may criticize as lacking refinement.* This leaves Davis, who has the wonderful sounding Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra at his service. Though he can sound somewhat boring at times, he more often than not impresses me as lively and dynamic, yet balanced and musical. The Concertgebouw also imparts a nice sense of clear, warm detail. Though no set may be perfect, if it's a set one wants, my chief modern recommendation would be Davis. For individual performances, Szell is hard to beat. Finally, for a rather special experience with a good dose of Haydn's Symphonies, Scherchen might be your man. Look for his DG Original Masters set of 1950s performances, mostly in mono with some in stereo. Good listening to all!


Yes!!! Scherchen's "wildness" contrasts starkly with Szell's super-clean precision. But I love the _go-for-broke_ quality in Scherchen's conducting -- whether it's Haydn or Beethoven or Mahler. For me, Scherchen's intensity (almost always) carries the day.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Mal said:


> I have the same feeling, sometimes I feel he could be more dynamic. I do use You Tube, although Spotify is my main streaming resource. Having been bitten in the past, I would not buy blind in these days of universal streaming, but one needs to start somewhere, and "Third Ear"often points out some gems, in my experience.
> 
> I just listened to Szell's "Surprise", and it is excellent.


I haven't checked out Spotify. Will have to get a look at it. Of the various classical record review books out there, The Third Ear(2002)is the most interesting and enjoyable I've read, though an updating would be welcome.


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## Brahmsian Colors

JACE said:


> Yes!!! Scherchen's "wildness" contrasts starkly with Szell's super-clean precision. But I love the _go-for-broke_ quality in Scherchen's conducting -- whether it's Haydn or Beethoven or Mahler. For me, Scherchen's intensity (almost always) carries the day.


I've not heard anyone who displays the degree of sensitivity, drive and grandeur with Haydn as Scherchen does.


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## Mal

Haydn67 said:


> I haven't checked out Spotify. Will have to get a look at it. Of the various classical record review books out there, The Third Ear(2002)is the most interesting and enjoyable I've read, though an updating would be welcome.


It's well worth checking out, it usually has the top picks recommended in "Third Ear", and other guides. Exceptions are Hyperion (they don't allow anyone to stream!) and very recent box set releases (like the latest Walter Sony Box set of Mozart & Haydn... but "Amazon experts" tend to rate earlier releases better.... and they usually are on Spotify.) It has a nice web interface, and low quality streaming is free, so is very easy to get started with. If you want to play Spotify streams at the highest quality, which (to me) is necessary, & comparable to CD, you'll need to pay $10 a month and use a HiFi setup. I use (and highly recommend) the Logitech Squeezebox Touch.

For lively Haydn, I like Pinnock & Fey in some of the Sturm and Drang; Kuijken, in the Paris and late transitional.


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## Forsooth

The London Symphonies set from Leonard Slatkin and the Philharmonia are currently on sale at Presto. However, after reading through this thread, I found no mention of Slatkin's efforts.

Any recommendation for this 4-CD set?

From Presto: "The Sony Classical Masters series' strong tradition of orchestral releases continues with two significant symphony cycles, among a number of notable orchestral collections. The Philharmonia Orchestra recorded Haydn's twelve "London" Symphonies with Leonard Slatkin between 1993 and 1994 to great acclaim, and this four-CD set is released complete for the first time."


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## Merl

Jochum, Davis, Bernstein, Fischer. Is that enough? Oh and some Scherchen (crazy guy).


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## flamencosketches

I love the Colin Davis/Concertgebouw set! This is what got me into Haydn. I can't picture anyone doing it better, unless you're a die-hard HIP guy in which I'd recommend Brüggen/Orchestra of the 18th Century which is also good.


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## Forsooth

Merl said:


> Jochum, Davis, Bernstein, Fischer. Is that enough? Oh and some Scherchen (crazy guy).





flamencosketches said:


> I love the Colin Davis/Concertgebouw set! This is what got me into Haydn. I can't picture anyone doing it better, unless you're a die-hard HIP guy in which I'd recommend Brüggen/Orchestra of the 18th Century which is also good.


Guys, thanks for the replies. Yes, the Davis seems to be loved by all, but the Slatkin London set is on sale for less than $8. I think I'll forego it, though. I listened to a comparison of the 100th by Slatkin and Bruggen on Qobuz. Slatkin's was good, but the big orchestra was not as nimble and "transparent" as Bruggen's smaller group. So I may look about and see if I can put together a group of Bruggen's releases :tiphat:


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## Enthusiast

I love the Jochum but the Davis is also very good. Normally I wouldn't be able to choose between the two but the Jochum has something very special that lifts it above any others to my ears. Then there is the Beecham which is also very good indeed (to say the least). Minkowski's HIP set is also excellent with some really wonderful woodwind playing. Bernstein's is also a good set. And I also quite like Harnoncourt's set.


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## Brahmsianhorn

This is a great set. I found out about it when the Military came on the radio and I fell in love with it instantly. Unfortunately it is only the last 6. I supplement it with Beecham's 93-98. I also have the Jochum and Davis sets for better sound quality.


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## Guest

I'm also a fan of Harnoncourt in this music. I recall liking Colin Davis, but it has been so long since I have listened to it.


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## Olias

This isn't a full cycle, but Mackerras did record # 100 101 103 and 104. These two CDs together are my absolute favorite recordings of Haydn's music anywhere by anyone. They are worth attention even if you have a cycle of all 12 by someone else.

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...ydn+Mackerras&qid=1564236379&s=gateway&sr=8-6

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...ydn+Mackerras&qid=1564236379&s=gateway&sr=8-2


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## SONNET CLV

Itullian said:


> My take
> ...
> 
> The Davis are classic, well recorded and spiritually uplifting. A great set.
> 
> ...
> 
> And of course the classic Dorati. Sensible tempi, transparent warm sound.
> 
> ...
> 
> Jochum is wonderful with high spirited fast paced last movements. Beautifully recorded.


I have the complete Davis and Dorati sets and the box of 12 London Symphonies from Jochum. Indeed, all prove a good listen. A few years back when I took on my numerical-order hearing of the complete Haydn Symphonies (at one per day), I drew from the Dorati box set. I'm hoping to return to this endeavor soon, utilizing the Davis box, or the Fischer box (also in my collection).

It's good that there is so much Haydn to experience, from the "big band" stuff to the "original instruments / original sound" approach (which I still wonder if Haydn would recognize -- I suspect that he never worked with an "original instruments" group of musicians that were as well trained and skillful as those in any of today's major "original instruments" bands).

Sometimes it's good to listen to off-the-beaten-track Haydn, too. The composer allows for a wide range of interpretations, and because of his sense of humor (obvious from his music) I believe he'd appreciate the differing perspectives.

If you have not yet heard Monteux in Haydn, you owe it to yourself to seek out the French conductor's interpretations of 94 and 101 (two of my favorite "London" Symphonies). I have these recordings in the large Decca - Wiener Philharmoniker box set (65 discs). It is actually Disc 1 of the collection. Wonderful Haydn, these.

Too, don't miss the Celibidache recordings of Nos. 92, 103 and 104. Interesting, is all I'll say.

Finally, a set that might get overlooked, but that I find fascinating, is that collection of the "London" Symphonies on the KANNON label -- 4 CDs in a slipcase. Various conductors and orchestras (none of them particularly big names) of works previously released on the PILZ "Vienna Masters Series".









What I find particularly delightful about this set is that the music strikes me as perhaps close to what Haydn himself may have experienced hearing from the orchestras of his acquaintance. Dedicated players committed to the music but not necessarily in the highest ranks of fortune or fame, and so, in other words, sincere in their playing. Rough-edged Haydn, not slick and polished. But wonderful nonetheless.


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## Enthusiast

SONNET CLV said:


> Too, don't miss the Celibidache recordings of Nos. 92, 103 and 104. Interesting, is all I'll say.


Presumably the Munich recordings? Why "interesting", I wonder. At least in comparison to much that Celibidache did in Munich, they seem very good but fairly conventional readings to me.


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## CnC Bartok

Is it daft of me to say I don't actually have a poor set of the London Symphonies! They are such great works, it seems that few if any conductors know how to f%4k them up.

Beyond my proper complete sets,- Dorati, Adam Fischer, Marzendorfer - I also have the likes of Davis, Jochum, Bruggen, Solti, Karajan, Harnoncourt, Beecham, Bernstein. If forced to only have one set, I'd have to go for either Jochum or Solti, bit none of them are weak (well, maybe Fischer, compared to his earlier pieces?).

Beecham is fabulous in these too, by the way!!


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## 89Koechel

brahmsianhorn - Yes, indeed, the Dane (Woldike) in Haydn, in Vanguard "ULTRA ANALOG" - that sounds fine! Well, amazon still has the "Big Haydn Box" for the large (haha, kidding) price of 99 cents. The latter has Woldike in Symphonies 99 thru 102 … plus, of course, certain other Symphonies, Divertimentos, 3 of his Quartets, plus even "The Creation" (with Stich-Randall, et. al.). If one can obtain the Haydn Box, plus Beecham, plus a very few others (in better sonics, of course), then one might have a GREAT overview/interpretation of what these late Symphonies are about - eh?


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## 89Koechel

CnC - Obviously, you're not "daft", but blessed. Maybe add-in a Szell recording, or two, and you'll be even MORE than blessed. Good luck.


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## Manxfeeder

CnC Bartok said:


> But none of them are weak (well, maybe Fischer, compared to his earlier pieces?).


I agree with you about Fischer. I have all of his Haydn except the last volume, because I think others have covered the London symphonies better.


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## CnC Bartok

89Koechel said:


> CnC - Obviously, you're not "daft", but blessed. Maybe add-in a Szell recording, or two, and you'll be even MORE than blessed. Good luck.


I do have a couple of Szell's Haydn CDs, could not agree more that they are excellent, real fire in them. Sadly he didn't do all 12 Londons, but the ones he did record are none the worse for that!

Re: Fischer, it's not that he is poor in the later symphonies, (and I'd include the Paris Symphonies in the less-inspired category too), but if you're going to record 104 great works, surely a sense of routine is likely to creep in somewhere. With Dorati it's some of the Sturm und Drang works, imho, I sense a bit in the later, less-Eszterhazy ones with Fischer?


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## Ras

Thomas Fey on modern instruments. 
Bruggen or Kuijken on period instruments.


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## Enthusiast

I'm not seeing a lot of love here for the Minkowski set. I feel it is excellent. The only think I can say against it is that I can seem a little too bright after you have listened to two or three symphonies. Strangely perhaps, but I am not a big fan of Bruggen's Haydn. I know that many rate it very highly. Minkowski's set is very different.


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## Enthusiast

Brahmsianhorn said:


> This is a great set. I found out about it when the Military came on the radio and I fell in love with it instantly. Unfortunately it is only the last 6. I supplement it with Beecham's 93-98. I also have the Jochum and Davis sets for better sound quality.


That was a good recommendation. Thank you. I'm not sure I would relegate Beecham to a support role in comparison with it, though!


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## jegreenwood

CnC Bartok said:


> I do have a couple of Szell's Haydn CDs, could not agree more that they are excellent, real fire in them. Sadly he didn't do all 12 Londons, but the ones he did record are none the worse for that!
> 
> Re: Fischer, it's not that he is poor in the later symphonies, (and I'd include the Paris Symphonies in the less-inspired category too), but if you're going to record 104 great works, surely a sense of routine is likely to creep in somewhere. With Dorati it's some of the Sturm und Drang works, imho, I sense a bit in the later, less-Eszterhazy ones with Fischer?


There may be no better example of the importance of mastering (at least during the stereo era) than Szell's Haydn. The Odyssey releases from early in the CD era ranked as the worst sounding classical stereo recordings I own. The Sony budget box set from several years ago is a vast improvement. I have the Szell mega-box, but I haven't listened to the Haydn discs yet.


----------



## gellio

Harnoncourt rises above all others.


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## Enthusiast

^ Perhaps it does but I'm not convinced. Which others have you heard?


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## Granate

I may suddenly do a Haydn Challenge this summer since I got the Fischer Brilliant box. Better than another summer with Mahler. Recommendations for London Symphonies sets and Paris too? I'm not buying any of them until I stream them. The Colin Davis London Symphonies in Amsterdam have a nice price in Amazon UK, but they could still cost me way more than the complete Fischer set lol.


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## wkasimer

Granate said:


> I may suddenly do a Haydn Challenge this summer since I got the Fischer Brilliant box. Better than another summer with Mahler. Recommendations for London Symphonies sets and Paris too? I'm not buying any of them until I stream them. The Colin Davis London Symphonies in Amsterdam have a nice price in Amazon UK, but they could still cost me way more than the complete Fischer set lol.


For Paris, Bernstein, Bruggen

For London, Minkowski, Bruggen, Davis


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## Allegro Con Brio

Davis’s set of Londons with the RCO is possibly the greatest Haydn symphony recordings I’ve heard. Polished, flawless, brilliant playing but overall they let themselves have fun, and that’s what Haydn is all about. Next I would go for Szell/Cleveland and Jochum/LPO. For HIP, Bruggen is also a lot of fun.


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## Simplicissimus

Jochum/LPO and Brüggen/Orch of the 18th Cent are all I need in my collection, but I always love to hear other versions of these symphonies, my favorite works of Haydn.


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## Granate

Yesterday I listened to one of the Haydn recordings that Sigiswald Kuijken made for DHM, along many for Virgin/Erato.
He recorded the London symphonies with La Petite Bande and after listening the Surprise in Bed I would love Sony to reissue the set in a bargain box. 

What do you think of Kuijken's Haydn with the two orchestras? He recorded some spares and from the 82nd to the 104th.


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## CnC Bartok

^^^ Kuijken's two CDs of the Paris Symphonies were praised to the hilt when they came out, and I bought them expecting great things. I have never been disappointed, and these readings have kept their brilliance to this day. An absolute gem of a collection!

I did get a couple of other CDs from the same forces, of other Symphonies by Haydn and was not quite as enthused, but he then did a wonderful Lamentatione, and I was reassured of his expertise in this field!


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## Gray Bean

Old school: Bernstein, Slatkin, Jochum, Colin Davis
HIP: Thomas Fey, Norrington (my favorite, kinda perverse sometimes but it always makes me smile!)
I’ve got so much Haydn, but not the Kuijken set. I’ll have to look for it. I like his Bach Cantata box.


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## Bigbang

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Davis's set of Londons with the RCO is possibly the greatest Haydn symphony recordings I've heard. Polished, flawless, brilliant playing but overall they let themselves have fun, and that's what Haydn is all about. Next I would go for Szell/Cleveland and Jochum/LPO. For HIP, Bruggen is also a lot of fun.


I own the Davis London and the some others outside the 12. I have all the Szell he recorded and know Jochum. I have always prefered Davis but it is too close to say I would pick one over the other for any reason. Best to know all of them.


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## Bigbang

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ Kuijken's two CDs of the Paris Symphonies were praised to the hilt when they came out, and I bought them expecting great things. I have never been disappointed, and these readings have kept their brilliance to this day. An absolute gem of a collection!
> 
> I did get a couple of other CDs from the same forces, of other Symphonies by Haydn and was not quite as enthused, but he then did a wonderful Lamentatione, and I was reassured of his expertise in this field!


Yes, I have too and another collection by the same forces on Haydn's other symphonies. You can hear the differences on instruments (period) but the ear adjusts readily.


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## DarkAngel

Itullian said:


> My take
> The Harnoncourt are strange and abrasive to me. I don't really care for anything he does.
> 
> The Solti are a bit driven, but well recorded. not a top rec.
> 
> The Davis are classic, well recorded and spiritually uplifting. A great set.
> 
> I also love Bernstein's Haydn. I think Lenny "gets it". Big band Haydn and great.
> 
> And of course the classic Dorati. Sensible tempi, transparent warm sound.
> 
> Beecham is also wonderful, but not all in stereo.
> 
> *Jochum is wonderful with high spirited fast paced last movements. Beautifully recorded.*


I am also big fan of Jochum set, very dramatic and exciting performances....

I am puzzled that no comparable Mozart symphony work is available by Jochum making this Haydn London set even more of a "surprise"


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## Animal the Drummer

Jochum did record Mozart 36, 39 and 40 with the Bavarian Radio Symphony, which I have on a couple of Heliodor LPs. They're old-fashioned performances, affectionate to a fault, delightful in their way but a touch too stop-start to be ideal, IMHO of course. You can get 36 and 39 on a DG Originals CD.


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## Granate

DarkAngel said:


> I am also big fan of Jochum set, very dramatic and exciting performances....
> 
> I am puzzled that no comparable Mozart symphony work is available by Jochum making this Haydn London set even more of a "surprise"


Too bad that the Jochum set is out of print already.










I can't find but a single CD of London symphonies from Günther Herbig in Spotify. While the complete London symphonies have a very good price in Amazon everywhere. Do you have this set? How does it really sound? Is it a worthy competitor?


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## gvn

Does anyone know if a DVD (or Blu-ray) set of the 12 is on the way? There are good-quality complete sets of the symphonies of Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Bruckner, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and probably others... but so far only a tiny sprinkling of Haydn (and even that consists mainly of telecasts 30-50 years old). It seems a very obvious gap!


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## flamencosketches

Granate said:


> Too bad that the Jochum set is out of print already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find but a single CD of London symphonies from Günther Herbig in Spotify. While the complete London symphonies have a very good price in Amazon everywhere. Do you have this set? How does it really sound? Is it a worthy competitor?


I just ordered this because it was so cheap on Amazon. Can't say I know much about it but I'm excited to check it out.


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## Josquin13

I'm a Haydn buff, and not surprisingly, these are favorite works of mine. So I've bought a ton of recordings over the years. The following list contains my most treasured Haydn "London" Symphonies nos. 93-104 sets & individual recordings over the decades:

I. On period instruments:

--These are some of the best recordings I've heard from Sigiswald Kuijken to date as a period conductor:





https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...en+haydn+import&qid=1591573408&s=music&sr=1-2

--Unfortunately, Frans Bruggen's London set has gone out of print and can be pricey. If interested, I'd suggest that you check the various box set & individual listings, as there have been multiple issues & reissues:

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...s=haydn+bruggen&qid=1591573666&s=music&sr=1-3
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...=haydn+bruggen&qid=1591573499&s=music&sr=1-10

https://www.amazon.com/HAYDN-SYMPHO...=haydn+bruggen&qid=1591573499&s=music&sr=1-17
https://www.amazon.com/Frans-Haydn-...=haydn+bruggen&qid=1591573499&s=music&sr=1-15

--Nicholas McGegan is an underrated Haydn conductor, IMO, and I've found his Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra recordings to be among the top choices in this repertory:

Symphony no. 104: 



Symphony no. 101"Clock":

















https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...phonies+mcgegan&qid=1591573805&s=music&sr=1-1

--As with his Mozart, Christopher Hogwood's Haydn is also be among my top choices, & especially his nos. 94 & 96, which won a Rosette award from the old Penquin Guide, and Symphonies nos. 100 & 104, etc.:

Symphony no. 94 "Surprise": 



Symphony no. 96 "Miracle":

















Symphony no. 104 "London", finale: 




https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...honies+Hogwood&qid=1591573870&s=music&sr=1-11
alternative listing: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...honies+Hogwood&qid=1591573870&s=music&sr=1-18
https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-1...honies+Hogwood&qid=1591573870&s=music&sr=1-13

In addition, I'd like to hear Marc Minkowski's Haydn Symphonies nos. 93-104 set, but haven't gotten around to it: 



. I'm not sure what I think about Giovanni Antonini's current ongoing cycle, as I've only heard one CD issue so far, and I don't think he's made it to the London Symphonies yet. Another potentially interesting cycle is from Nicholas McGegan in his new post with the Hungarian period ensemble, Capella Savaria; although they've just done Symphonies nos. 79, 80, 81 so far, and I don't know if there will be further issues: 



. Nor have I heard Bruno Weil's recordings with Cappella Coloniensis on Ars Produktion DSD hybrid SACDs--a label that usually offers 'state of the art' audiophile sound:


















However, I have liked Weil's earlier Haydn with Tafelmusik of the earlier symphonies & particularly their complete masses, so I'd imagine they're very good (though maybe not a first choice). Unfortunately, Ton Koopman's complete Haydn cycle became stalled when he ended his contract with Erato, & there's been only one CD issued of the London Symphonies so far--nos. 97 & 98--on Koopman's current label, Challenge Classics: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London-Symphonies-97-98/dp/B003BOU6XS. Koopman is a conductor that I've liked a lot in Mozart, where I think he's underrated, so his Haydn may be worthwhile, too. Surprisingly, Trevor Pinnock hasn't recorded any of the London Symphonies (EDIT: I was wrong about that: 



). Nor have Rene Jacobs or William Christie, either, who otherwise excel in Haydn and Mozart (though Jacobs has recorded Haydn's nos. 91 & 92, and Christie has done the "Paris" Symphonies). Nor have I heard Richard Hickox's well reviewed London set with Collegium Musicum.

That about covers the period field. With the exception of the composer approved chamber arrangements of Haydn's 12 London Symphonies by his friend, the violinist Johann Peter Salomon. & here, I've most liked the recordings by the Arco Baleno Ensemble, Florilegium (unfortunately, they never came out with volume 2, to my knowledge), the Linde Consort, and Christopher Hogwood with members of the Academy of Ancient Music:





https://www.channelclassics.com/catalogue/19603-Haydn-London-Symphonies-Arr-Salomon/
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...&qid=1532288079&sr=1-1&keywords=haydn+salomon
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...qid=1532288079&sr=1-11&keywords=haydn+salomon

Last word--in a fire, I'd likely grab my Kuijken & Bruggen Haydn recordings first, among the period sets in my collection, along with McGegan's nos. 101 & 104, and Hogwood's superb recordings of nos. 94, 96, 100, 104, etc.. I wouldn't want to be without Salomon's chamber transcriptions, either. & I intend to get to Minkowski's London set at some point, too.

II. On modern instruments:

--Leonard Bernstein & the New York Philharmonic: In my view, Bernstein was an erratic, risk taking conductor, who was either great or bad, and seldom anywhere in between. But at his best, Bernstein was a great Haydn conductor; although, with that said, I'm not as crazy about his later DG & Philips Haydn recordings as I am about his earlier recordings for Columbia:

Symphony no. 102: 



https://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Bern...bernstein+haydn&qid=1591573468&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...n+haydn+box+set&qid=1591574768&s=music&sr=1-7

--Sir Colin Davis and the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, on Philips--this is a first class Haydn series, but not exactly HIP minded, as Sir Colin was opposed to the period movement:

Symphony no. 93: 



Symphony no. 94 "Surprise": 



Symphony no. 96 "Miracle": 



https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...ir+colin+davis&qid=1591574055&s=music&sr=1-10
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...3Z27EJAGGEJ&psc=1&refRID=R1V1TZE673Z27EJAGGEJ
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...VVF06ZDRTBC&psc=1&refRID=AAM08ZM1HVVF06ZDRTBC

--Eugen Jochum, with both the London Philharmonic on DG and the Staatskapelle Dresden (nos. 93-95, 98) on Berlin Classics: these are probably my favorite 'big band' Haydn recordings of the old school, after Bernstein & Davis:





https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London...ds=haydn+jochum&qid=1591578333&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-12-Lon...ds=haydn+jochum&qid=1591578333&s=music&sr=1-3
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...berlin+classics&qid=1591574381&s=music&sr=1-2

--Jochum's one time protégé in Amsterdam, Bernard Haitink, recorded a remarkable Philips "Festivo" LP of nos. 96 & 99 early in his career that was awarded a 'rosette' by the old Penguin Guide, and deservedly so: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...ernard+haitink&qid=1591574550&s=music&sr=1-19
















https://www.amazon.com/Haitink-Phil...haitink+box+set&qid=1591574620&s=music&sr=1-1

--It's also worth hearing any live Haydn recordings from Sandor Vegh & the Camerata Salzburg (who were great in Mozart's Symphonies nos. 40 & 41, as well)--such as their Symphony no. 103, and (85, 88) & 96, on Orfeo:









https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Symphonies-85-88-Miracle/dp/B0000267DL

--Adam Fischer's for the most part excellent (complete) series with the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, on Nimbus & reissued by Brilliant:





https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sym...+haydn+complete&qid=1591575352&s=music&sr=1-7

--Jeffrey Tate's EMI Haydn recordings are likewise excellent, and the English Chamber Orchestra is a near ideal ensemble in Haydn (& Mozart)--that is, if you want performances on modern instruments. Like Harnoncourt, Tate is more attuned to period style than the heavier & not so HIP sounding recordings by Dorati, Karajan, & Jochum, but he also may not be quite as bold & exciting at times, either:









https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...aydn+symphonies&qid=1591577027&s=music&sr=1-5
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...frey+tate+haydn&qid=1591578047&s=music&sr=1-4
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...frey+tate+haydn&qid=1591578047&s=music&sr=1-7
etc.

--As usual, Harnoncourt's readings are more controversial. I find Harnoncourt to be a 'hit and miss' conductor, but happen to like his Haydn recordings with the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam. They make a refreshing alternative (& change) to the older conductors far less HIP approach to Haydn. & for anyone looking for HIP performances on modern instruments, Harnoncourt's set would be my top recommendation. Though I realize that his London set may not be for everyone:





https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Vol-4-...t+haydn+box+set&qid=1591574798&s=music&sr=1-2

--Finally, Gunther Herbig's set of the London Symphonies should also be mentioned. Herbig is an underrated & dependable conductor, and the Dresden Philharmonic plays exceptionally well for him. Note that Herbig is a first class orchestra builder, so there's no need to be hesitant or 'put off' by his lesser known orchestras. Although how this conductor has never received a post with a major orchestra is beyond me. While these may not be overtly HIP performances, nevertheless, Herbig has a clear understanding of 'classical' style--albeit on modern instruments, which is at least as impressive as Bernstein & Davis's (though the Dresdeners style of playing & approach to Haydn is different from the gutsy New York Philharmonic under Bernstein).










I've not heard (enough of) the Haydn cycles by Thomas Fey, Leonard Slatkin, or Harmut Haenchen, to comment on their recordings.

As for George Szell's Haydn, in general, I find his Haydn conducting too stiff & rigid, and at times humorless and lacking in charm. Although the performances are polished and thoroughly well drilled (which I say with a certain degree of hesitation), even if they don't breathe so easily around the collar. Yet, surprisingly, Szell was a much better conductor when he got out of Cleveland, as is attested to by his brilliant Beethoven 5th in Amsterdam (on Philips). In regards to his Haydn, just have a listen to how much less stiff Szell's conducting is in the Symphony no. 93 with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra versus his Cleveland recording of the same. In Vienna, Szell was so much more relaxed & musically insightful. He's like a different conductor:

Szell, Haydn Symphony no. 93, Vienna Symphony Orchestra: 



Szell, Haydn Symphony no. 93, Cleveland Orchestra: 




Some further examples: the following Cleveland performances of nos. 97 & 98 are very stiff, along with some oddly clipped phrasing, and ultimately not all that well conducted, in my opinion: 




Granted, some listeners like Szell's rigidity, but it's hardly a subjective opinion on my part that its a characteristic of his conducting style. Which is not to say that Szell doesn't loosen up a bit at times in his Cleveland Haydn, as he does, but it doesn't happen nearly often enough, in my opinion.

Last word: in a fire, I'd likely grab the Bernstein and Davis Haydn recordings first, among the modern instrument performances in my collection. I'd also pick up Harnoncourt's Amsterdam set too, for his more HIP readings, along with Haitink's superb nos. 96 & 99. And then maybe Fischer, Jochum, & Herbig.

In closing, I've recently made the following discount hybrid SACD purchase (for under $7, excluding shipping costs), which hasn't arrived yet in the mail:

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sympho...sir+colin+davis&qid=1591574055&s=music&sr=1-2
I've just checked YT, and find that the recordings have been posted there:


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## Heck148

Bernstein/NYPO is my usual go-to for Haydn "Londons"...Lenny had a great time with Hatdn...it always seems playful, buoyant. Szell/Cleveland is really fine also, beautiful playing (ummm... well...slow mvt of #93 doesn't exactly sound "beautiful"...but the "flatulando" in the bassoon is uniquely....expressive...lol!!)
Reiner recorded 3 of the Londons...95, 101 with RCAVICTORORCH (his last recordings before he died), and 104 with Chicago...live 11/'57...His CSO #88 is my favorite of any Haydn symphony performances. A real gem..


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## wkasimer

> -Unfortunately, Frans Bruggen's London set has gone out of print and can be pricey. If interested, I'd suggest that you check the various box set & individual listings, as there have been multiple issues & reissues:


I've collected Brüggen recordings for many years, and it's remarkable how difficult they have always been to find (at least in the USA), how briefly they remain in print, and how quicky they become prohibitively expensive on the used market.

I agree with your most of Josquin13's opinions, as always. One excellent set that I don't believe was mentioned is by Howard Shelley on Hyperion.


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## Haydn man

The great thing about Haydn’s London Symphonies is you can start with a set done in a period style eg Kuijken and then move on to the Davis set for a bid band comparison.
Two great sets to start with and much pleasure to be had and you can decide which style you prefer


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## Malx

wkasimer said:


> I've collected Brüggen recordings for many years, and it's remarkable how difficult they have always been to find (at least in the USA), how briefly they remain in print, and how quicky they become prohibitively expensive on the used market.
> 
> I agree with your most of Josquin13's opinions, as always. One excellent set that I don't believe was mentioned is by Howard Shelley on Hyperion.


I knew there must be someone else who rated Shelleys London Symphonies.


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## NLAdriaan

wkasimer said:


> I've collected Brüggen recordings for many years, and it's remarkable how difficult they have always been to find (at least in the USA), how briefly they remain in print, and how quicky they become prohibitively expensive on the used market.
> 
> I agree with your most of Josquin13's opinions, as always. One excellent set that I don't believe was mentioned is by Howard Shelley on Hyperion.


Haydn was something of a blindspot for me, just listened to some of his string quartets. But this is about to change. I purcheased a 13 cd box with all the Haydn symphonies conducted by Frans Bruggen: Strum & Drang, Paris and London. This was a release I actually never knew. It was released by Decca for a Dutch chain of classical music stores in 2009. I also purchased from the same seller the BIS pianoforte set by Brautigam. I know only have Brendel's Haydn set on my want list. Thanks guys for your warm recommendations for Haydn's Bruggen.:tiphat:

In return, I can recommend his Rameau recordings, instrumental music-suites from the opera's. Another sweet spot for Bruggen. And released in one box on the Glossa label.


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## Granate

I'm in the middle of the London Symphonies challenge and I'm loving what I hear from the Beecham recordings 93-98. I still don't know about the 99-104 recordings in Stereo.

Should I get these? I would need to pay 25€ and it has the Mozart symphonies live and in studio I think.

And do you think Warner can still release these Haydn London Symphonies with better SQ (after a remaster) and for a cheaper price?


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## Eclectic Al

I have a CD of Solti conducting 93 and 99. These are delightful, and not remotely over-driven. Georg having fun. They are my go-to versions of these symphonies.

Can anyone indicate whether the rest of his London set is similarly charming? If so, I might invest in the set.

More broadly I have Fischer and Davis London sets (plus a few bits and bobs by others). I surprised myself the other day by listening to 95 (I think it was): Davis first and then Fischer immediately afterwards. I much preferred Fischer: the textures were cleaner and the performance seemed more "alive".


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## flamencosketches

I've been enjoying Herbig/Dresdner Philharmonie lately. I don't know anything of the conductor or orchestra but they must be good considering they've made such good recordings of Haydn.


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## perempe

The concert is available this month.
BFO's concert in Ravenna Festival 

Budapest Festival Orchestra

Iván Fischer conductor 
Anna Prohaska soprano

Richard Wagner
Siegfried Idyll symphonic poem in E major for chamber orchestra WWV 103

Benjamin Britten
Les illuminations for soprano and strings, Op. 18

Franz Joseph Haydn
Symphony n. 104 in D major "London" Hob. 104 (53:40)


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## flamencosketches

perempe said:


> The concert is available this month.
> BFO's concert in Ravenna Festival
> 
> Budapest Festival Orchestra
> 
> Iván Fischer conductor
> Anna Prohaska soprano
> 
> Richard Wagner
> Siegfried Idyll symphonic poem in E major for chamber orchestra WWV 103
> 
> Benjamin Britten
> Les illuminations for soprano and strings, Op. 18
> 
> Franz Joseph Haydn
> Symphony n. 104 in D major "London" Hob. 104 (53:40)


Sounds like an awesome program. Going to have to check this out later.


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## Heck148

Eclectic Al said:


> I have a CD of Solti conducting 93 and 99. These are delightful, and not remotely over-driven. Georg having fun. They are my go-to versions of these symphonies.
> Can anyone indicate whether the rest of his London set is similarly charming? If so, I might invest in the set


Solti was an excellent conductor of Haydn and Mozart....heard him conduct several in live concert...his "London" syms are very fine. I'd go for it.


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## Granate

What I'm hearing of the Solti London Philharmonic set is remarkably well-conducted, on the level of Jochum, but different style and better SQ provided by Decca. I'm liking it even if it's not a winner so far.

Out of the So-called "Analogue" sets (Davis Amsterdam, Jochum London and Herbig Dresden), I'm more impressed with the playing the Dresden set offers, surprisingly. Other times, the Davis recordings prove more than just effective, but also really detailed. Thank you for the rips Flamencosketches.

As many people noticed in the past, the London symphonies by Fischer are not very recommended. It's most of the time better recorded than legend says, but the last thing I would call many of these performances are "lively". Certainly well-played and coherent with the style of the complete cycle, but not easy to enjoy.

Karajan is like a hit and miss and I gave up on trying Bernstein. I would need to try the latest remasters.

Out of the HIP recordings, only Norrington in Stuttgart and Minkowski with Louvre in Vienna are making the cut, along surprising spares by Hogwood.

I don't really know what could effectively replace the style of the Fischer London Symphonies (in the complete set I own). I'm listening to all the sets possible and I think I have to go for something different but gripping, which is what Beecham is offering me. Mono but broad performances from an old master.


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## Brahmsianhorn

My ideal set:










+


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## Guest

The Adam Fischer set had potential, but was recorded by Nimbus and I find their engineering insufferable. I like the Dennis Russel Davies set (slight irritation of applause at the end of each symphony). Most recent I listened through the London Symphony sets of Bruggen and Colin Davis and found both interesting in different ways. Harnoncourt can be a hoot. It's also fun listening to the occasional Karajan.

My less than satisfactory experiences were Dorati (dull) and Jochum (way too string dominated).


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## Gray Bean

Beecham
Davis
Jochum (my first set)
Bernstein
Solti
Slatkin
Bruggen
Norrington (his Military Symphony is a hoot!)


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## Granate

Brahmsianhorn said:


> My ideal set:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +


Replaced the comment with a valid image.

And thank you. I'm going to stream it on spotify along the others in my challenge. It is included in this box but I don't know about the SQ.


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## philoctetes

Listening to Fricsay who sounds just right for an old school approach...


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## Brahmsianhorn

Granate said:


> Replaced the comment with a valid image.
> 
> And thank you. I'm going to stream it on spotify along the others in my challenge. It is included in this box but I don't know about the SQ.


I first heard Woldike's Military Symphony on the radio and thus seeked it out.

He also did a wonderful Creation.


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## UniversalTuringMachine

The only Haydn symphony recording I am still listening to is Bruggen's. I will fall asleep otherwise, no surprise can wake me up.


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## flamencosketches

How old are the recordings from that Beecham 2CD?


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## flamencosketches

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> The only Haydn symphony recording I am still listening to is Bruggen's. I will fall asleep otherwise, no surprise can wake me up.


Decca/Universal needs to rerelease Brüggen's Haydn in an affordable box. It's so good, but quite difficult to find.


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## Granate

flamencosketches said:


> How old are the recordings from that Beecham 2CD?


Mono recordings from 1958 in French Salle Wagram. People despise the acoustics but I'm not complaining at all. Apparently the Stereo recordings from the late 99-104 have poor stereo. That's why I'm asking about the remaster possibilities.


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## Enthusiast

I don't notice a significant problem with any of the Beecham London Symphonies. I am not super fussy with sound but the Beecham Haydn's are certainly much better than historical ... and they are such good performances. I also rate the Woldikes. But we are really spoiled for the London Symphonies - with Jochum and Davis also really good (for me the Jochums are as good as Beecham's in their way). I do also sometimes enjoy the Minkowski set but his very bright approach makes it hard to listen to many in succession.


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## Granate

Very pleasant surprise. On the level of their Mozart recordings. Faster than Davis. Also, Sound Quality is completely Digital. There are still cheap CD copies out there.

The different venues help out a lot: Mozarteum for 101 & 104, Felsenreitschule for 102 and Festspielhaus for 103.


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## CnC Bartok

Having said I didn't have a disappointing set of the London Symphonies, I do now. I bought Jeffrey Tate's set piecemeal, and to be honest none of the performances ever really caught fire. I do like his Mozart, though....

A real discovery is a set on Supraphon, from the Prague Chamber Orchestra under the direction of Břetislav Novotný (maybe more famous in his string quartet roles as a recording artist?) These are really fresh and lively performances, amd despite the small forces, look towards Beethoven in their style. Really chuffed to have got hold of them!


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## Malx

CnC Bartok said:


> Having said I didn't have a disappointing set of the London Symphonies, I do now. I bought Jeffrey Tate's set piecemeal, and to be honest none of the performances ever really caught fire. I do like his Mozart, though....
> 
> A real discovery is a set on Supraphon, from the Prague Chamber Orchestra under the direction of Břetislav Novotný (maybe more famous in his string quartet roles as a recording artist?) These are really fresh and lively performances, amd despite the small forces, look towards Beethoven in their style. Really chuffed to have got hold of them!
> 
> View attachment 157560


Did the Prague Chamber Orchestra not record a set without conductor I remember having a disc of Symphonies 96,97 and if I recall correctly 98 which has been misplaced or ended up on a cull pile in error.


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## Kreisler jr

It's been a long time I heard some of the Beecham recordings. I was not a fan. Besides the historical sound one should point out that they use old editions that are often missing woodwind parts (e.g. clarinet in the trio in 103,iii) and other problems. I am not exactly sure, but I think Scherchen's might suffer from the same problem. (I found the Scherchen/DG (Westminster) a rather mixed bag, certainly not recommendable for newbies with extremes and mediocre sound and I don't really like any of his "London" very much although I find his 45, 88 among the most interesting Haydn recordings. The stereo #100 that was included in the "EMI Great conductors" at least has good sound.) So briefly, I'd not recommend any historical recording of these pieces as a first or second recommendation.
The (often very cheap) Herbig set mentioned above is surprisingly good. The sound is very good, especially the woodwinds play beautifully and the interpretations are fleet and straightforward, especially for early 1970s? Maybe a bit "neutral" overall. Tate is not dissimilar but I found Herbig more lively (and got rid of all but one Tate disc I keep for sentimental reasons as it was my first Haydn on CD).
Jochum is more characterful but the sound is a bit more varied.
Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw is not as special (neither as mannered) as his Paris set (and the 4 earlier Concentus discs are in between) but mostly good and usually interesting. He is one of the few with mostly fast menuets (they are often played too slow).

Brüggen can also be a bit mannered (e.g. his finale of 98 has absurd tempo changes, 93,i is way too slow) but also very good (although I think I find him overall more interesting in the earlier and Paris symphonies)
Of Kuijken I only have 103/104 which is very good and quite straightforward. Have not kept up with more recent HIP recordings.


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## CnC Bartok

Malx said:


> Did the Prague Chamber Orchestra not record a set without conductor I remember having a disc of Symphonies 96,97 and if I recall correctly 98 which has been misplaced or ended up on a cull pile in error.


These are those, I believe. Recorded 1978-80 roughly. Novotný was a member of the Prague Quartet, and a fine violinist, and I suspect he might have been directing from first violin music stand, but I cannot say for sure.

I had a single LP, possibly the same as your one, but only just discovered all 12 were done. Novotný is not credited as director in 103.

Don't cull, they're lovely, and don't just think I'm being obsessively pro-Czech!


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## Malx

CnC Bartok said:


> These are those, I believe. Recorded 1978-80 roughly. Novotný was a member of the Prague Quartet, and a fine violinist, and I suspect he might have been directing from first violin music stand, but I cannot say for sure.
> 
> I had a single LP, possibly the same as your one, but only just discovered all 12 were done. Novotný is not credited as director in 103.
> 
> Don't cull, they're lovely, and don't just think I'm being obsessively pro-Czech!


Unfortunately probably too late, it would have gone to a charity store a good few years ago if it was on the cull pile and if its misplaced it is certainly well hidden.


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