# Your Ten Favorite American Composers



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Howdy :3 List your 10 favorite composers of American origin. You may order the list, or not, whatever works for you ^_^ (I personally will stick to composers who fit into the classical idiom, just to help narrow down the selection, but please feel free to include great composers from rock, jazz, and electronic music, and folk music if you'd like).

Charles Ives
Frank Zappa
John Cage
Samuel Barber
Henry Cowell
Milton Babbitt
Stephen Sondheim
George Crumb
George Gershwin
Scott Joplin

Honorable mentions: Stephen Foster, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, Charles Mingus, Jaco Pastorius, Bernard Hermann, Aaron Copland, Jimi Hendrix, John Zorn, Lou Harrison, Conlon Nancarrow, Steve Reich, Paul Lansky, Michael Giacchino, Danny Elfman, Morton Feldman, Harry Partch, Leonard Bernstein, and Ellen Zwilich, all great composers as well.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Miles Davis


i don't think that composition was his strength. He had some nice tune, boplicity, circle, milestones, but i wouldn't consider him an important composer.


----------



## mleghorn (May 18, 2011)

I would not include Zappa, Babbitt, Sondheim, or Joplin. 

I WOULD include: Elliot Carter, Leonard Bernstein, George Antheil, Aaron Copland, John Corigliano, Paul Creston, Morton Gould, Roy Harris, William Schuman, Bernard Herrmann, Alan Hovahannes, Korngold..


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

norman bates said:


> i don't think that composition was his strength. He had some nice tune, boplicity, circle, milestones, but i wouldn't consider him an important composer.


I'm not listing for importance (which I think is usually a silly thing to try and measure anyway) I'm listing Americans that I believe composed some great music.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

alec wilder
andrew hill
wayne shorter
charles ives
sun ra
herbie nichols
thelonious monk
ellington/strayhorn
harry partch


if i had to add some other, i would certainly mention gershwin, george crumb, dane rudhyar, carl ruggles, mingus, george russell, ned rorem, ralph shapey and charles tomlinson griffes


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> I'm not listing for importance (which I think is usually a silly thing to try and measure anyway) I'm listing Americans that I believe composed some great music.


ok but davis composed very few tunes, i think that even in jazz there are tons of musicians that could be considered "composers" before him. A lot of his most memorable music was composed by other musicians...


----------



## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

1. Barber
2. Ives
3. Carter

Don't know of many Americans I like.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Favorites - not necessarily a comment on their importance or skills, just that I like to hear them - off the top of my head, when I think of Americans, I think of David Diamond, Charles Ives, Horatio Parker (Hora Novissima), Scott Joplin, Samuel Barber, Morton Feldman when I have the time, Arthur Foote for his chamber music, Paul Creston, Gloria Coates, Conlan Noncarrow, and William Schuman. I'd put Bernstein and Antheil in the second level of favorites. I should mention Aaron Copland and Henry Cowell, but I don't listen to them that much.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Barber, Carter, Schoenberg, Hovhaness, Krenek, Gershwin, Bernstein, Porter, Bloch, Korngold.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Rochberg
Barber
Carter
Hovhaness (I´ll count him in here)
George Crumb
Ruth Crawford Seeger (String Quartet, 9 Preludes) + Carl Ruggles
Lucia Dlugoszewski (Fire Fragile Flight)
David Diamond
Humphrey Searle 
Dane Rudhyar (piano works) + Wuorinen

I rarely connect that much with Ives.


----------



## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

1. George Gershwin
2. Duke Ellington
3. Aaron Copland
4. Samuel Barber
5. Leonard Bernstein
6. Miles Davis
7. Scott Joplin
8. Charles Ives
9. Thelonious Monk
10. Stephen Sondheim


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Barber
Hanson
Cage
Gershwin
Copland
Hovhaness
Crumb
Ives
Still
Grofe


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Rochberg


Any recommendations? I'd like to know his music better.


----------



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

America has so many great composers. Unfortunately, the majority are composers that I haven't listened to just yet. I have only heard a few pieces by Ives, Reich and Babbitt so far and am looking forward to exploring more such as Carter, Hohvaness, Diamond, Schuman, Crumb and Feldman, and other names I know even less of. Of the ones I know well:

1. Barber
2. Adams
3. Gershwin
4. Cage
5. Glass
6. Copland
7. Bernstein


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

In no particular order ('classical' only) -

Bernstein
Ives
Partch
Copland
Carter
Gershwin
Hovhaness
Cage
Barber
Virgil Thomson

That's 10 already, extra ones would be various film composers (eg. John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, etc.) and emigres like Stepan Wolpe (European, who taught Morton Feldman) and Huang Ruo (contemporary Chinese born composer living/working in USA). I like Henry Cowell and Feldman a bit too, and the 'Minimalists' ocassionally.

In terms of non-classical, there's a lot I like, esp. jazz.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

1. Frank Zappa
2. Don Van Vliet
3. George Gershwin
4. Charles Ives
5. Elliott Carter
6. Harry Partch
7. Conlon Nancarrow
8. Charles Wuorinen
9. John Cage
10. Morton Feldman


----------



## campy (Aug 16, 2012)

Howard Hanson
Aaron Copland
David Diamond
Charles Ives
George Gershwin
Randall Thompson
Henry Cowell
Carl Ruggles
Virgil Thomson
John Philip Sousa


----------



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

In order to avoid issues concerning who actually composed what when we get into Jazz and other popular music forms, I'll stick with composers within what is commonly recognized as part of the Western Classical tradition:

1. Samuel Barber
2. Philip Glass
3. Aaron Copland
4. Ned Rorem
5. Joseph Schwantner
6. Alan Hovhaness
7. Steve Reich
8. George Gershwin
9. Jake Heggie
10. Michael Daugherty

Other composers of note: Charles Ives, Walter Piston, Lee Hoiby, John Harbison, Peter Lieberson, Virgil Thompson, Eric Whitacre, John Corigliano, Charles Griffes, George Rochberg, Morten Lauridsen, Howard Hanson, Harry Partch, George Crumb, Elliott Carter, David Diamond, Joan Tower.

This list was difficult. Ultimately I had to go with which composers I tended to play the most. Rorem and Heggie make the list based upon their achievements as song-writers, while Ives didn't make my list for the simple reason that I have little by him.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Barber, Hanson, Copland, Gershwin, Ives, Muczynski, Griffes, Bernstein, Corigliano, _GOTTSCHALK right_??? Not in any particular order, I'm not sure I've ever tried to rate them in my head before. But at least I could name 10 Americans I truly like. 

Some of the composers above made really great flute music, particularly Hanson, Griffes, Copland, and Muczynski.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Carter, Barber, Bernstein, Copland, Feldman, Cage, Ives, Crumb, Porter......and Me! 

lol jk, I'll make Nico Muhly my 10th.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

1) Ives
2) Copland
3) Barber
4) Cage
5) Glass
6) Reich

Don't really listen to enough of the other major American composers to list them.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Ives
William Schuman
Barber
Gil Evans
Nancarrow
Ellington
Zappa
Mingus
Carla Bley
George Russell

I love Miles, but he didn't really write all that much. He surrounded himself with great writers
like Gil Evans, Gerry Mulligan, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Michael Jackson
Zappa
John Cage
Gaga
Madonna
Alice Cooper


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Michael Jackson
> Zappa
> John Cage
> Gaga
> ...


No Justin Bieber?


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

violadude said:


> No Justin Bieber?


He's Canadian. But man, he's just not on Celine Dion's level.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> He's Canadian. But man, he's just not on Celine Dion's level.


Oh ya, he is isn't he? Well why on earth do I hear so much about him over here goddammit!


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm glad to see Harpsy likes to rock. I'd feel bad if he spent all his time listening to crap like Handel!


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> 1. Frank Zappa
> 2. Don Van Vliet
> 3. George Gershwin
> 4. Charles Ives
> ...


Don Van Vliet is Captain Beefheart right? :3


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Re the inclusion of John Cage on 'Harpsy's' list, he was not a rocker/popstar like the others...so maybe its time for this famous old segment?:





PS - I don't want to derail this thread, I've done that enough elsewhere as it is.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

For his purposes, Cage is like the rest. He doesn't take any of them seriously as composers. I thought that was quite obvious.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Don Van Vliet is Captain Beefheart right? :3


Correct. Speaking of which, everyone should hear this - multiple times.


----------



## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Re the inclusion of John Cage on 'Harpsy's' list, he was not a rocker/popstar like the others...so maybe its time for this famous old segment?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good video. Joe Raposo, now that's an incredibly influential american composer, listened to by millions, who is also very underrated, almost unknown. A student of Nadia Boulanger no less.

Also: A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

starthrower said:


> For his purposes, Cage is like the rest. He doesn't take any of them seriously as composers. I thought that was quite obvious.


Well Michael Jackson for one looks like he's got a pretty solid selection of songs/compositions -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Michael_Jackson

I can't help imagine that in the future, he'll be seen like Cole Porter is, or Irving Berlin, guys from earlier times like that. So again I don't think it's far-fetched to think of things like this. But that's not going to accord with everybody around here, I know it.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

waldvogel said:


> 1. George Gershwin
> 2. Duke Ellington
> 3. Aaron Copland
> 4. Samuel Barber
> ...


I would say this. I like more American Jazz and Movie composers than their Classical composers.

Hovhaness
John Williams
George Gershwin
Aaron Copland
Horace Silver
Duke Ellington
Barber
Ives
Adams (have few good works!)


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Gottschalk
Joplin
Gershwin
Hovhanes
Chadwick
Sousa
Elmer Berstein
Dimitry Tiomkin
John (Jack) Horner
Stephen Foster
Zez Confrey
Me

By and large, Americans are cultural amnesiacs. We believe that American music started, and some would say stopped, with Lenny Berstein and Aaron Copeland. It didn't.

I include Joplin because he thought of himself as a classical composer. He sought to make Ragtime as much a classical form as Chopins pollinaises and mazurkas, both folk idioms. 

Foster is there because he is one of the fathers of American music. His songs were and still are sung all over america and the best, such as Beautifull Dreamer are as good as any Schubert Leider. 

Sousa is there because he is a damn fine composer with a gift for counterpoint. Just because he specialized in band music, mostly marches and dance music, does not mean he was not composing art music. He was one of the most influential musicians of his time and, through his band introduced thousands of Americans to the classical music that was being produced in Europe. Exclude Sousa and you need to exclude the Strausses.

Gottschalk was Americas first international musical superstar. His compositions are quite good, for the most part. He was influential in the birth of jazz through his creol and caribean pieces. The contain cross rhythyms, syncopations and jazz-ish harmonies. These pieces were well know piano works at the time jazz was being born, especially in New Orleans, his birthplace. 

Tiomkin, Horner and Elmer Bernstein are composers of movie music, mostly. Good movie music is the equal of any incidental music for the stage. These guys are/were the best. As an indication of their influence, Bernstein and Tiomkin practically invented what we know as the Cowboy sounding music. Think "The Magnificent Seven" and "The Alamo" or "High Noon". Horner is still working and defining what movie music can be.

I think the others are self explanitory.


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Gershwin
Glass
Copland
Adams
Joplin
Corigliano
Adamo


----------



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Foster is there because he is one of the fathers of American music. His songs were and still are sung all over america and the best, such as Beautifull Dreamer are as good as any Schubert Leider. 

Another Foster fan! of course we're not alone. Thomas Hampson has been very outspoken in support of Foster and the American song tradition.


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Romantic Geek is going to be most offended that nobody mentioned Edward Macdowell.


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Foster is there because he is one of the fathers of American music. His songs were and still are sung all over america and the best, such as Beautifull Dreamer are as good as any Schubert Leider.
> 
> Another Foster fan! of course we're not alone. Thomas Hampson has been very outspoken in support of Foster and the American song tradition.


The wonderful American tenor Richard Crooks recorded some very fine versions of Stephen Foster songs in 1937.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

drpraetorus said:


> Sousa is there because he is a damn fine composer with a gift for counterpoint. Just because he specialized in band music, mostly marches and dance music, does not mean he was not composing art music. He was one of the most influential musicians of his time and, through his band introduced thousands of Americans to the classical music that was being produced in Europe. Exclude Sousa and you need to exclude the Strausses.


Sousa is American sunshine


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

It's strange that Walter Piston hasn't come up. I need to explore his music more.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> It's strange that Walter Piston hasn't come up. I need to explore his music more.


Well, you know Piston. He has his ups and downs.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Foster is there because he is one of the fathers of American music. His songs were and still are sung all over america and the best, such as Beautifull Dreamer are as good as any Schubert Leider.
> 
> Another Foster fan! of course we're not alone. Thomas Hampson has been very outspoken in support of Foster and the American song tradition.


Americans have always felt inferior to Europeans in regards to things like culture, classsical music etc. We have no reason to.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Foster and Hampson





Mr. Foster certainly knew hard times first hand.

Beautiful Dreamer, Hampson. I would really encourage everyone who likes GOOD singing and songs to get this CD.






Beautiful Dreamer, Marilyn Horne. I remember seeing her sing this on the Tonight Show. That was back with Johnny Carson, when they had more than the flavor of the day as musical guests.






Jeanie with the Light Brown hair. I jave no idea why he pronounces it Jennie. On the CD he uses Jeanie.

He is possibly tryinh to make an association with the name Jane, which was The name of Foster's wife.
The song is thought to be about her.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Elmer Bernstein at the Proms. there is a little Copeland in there. It's like Bernstein was saying "Here, Aaron, let me show you how it's done"


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Not on my list, but Alfred Newman (no, not Alfred E. Newman) How the West was Won. Being a horn player, I just love the horn parts.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Green Leaves of Summer. This got Tiomkin the oscar for best orignal score in 1960


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Manxfeeder said:


> (*Rochberg*): Any recommendations? I'd like to know his music better.


Piano Quintet; Violin Concerto; The Naxos disc containing Symphony 5; String Quartets (Conccord4); "Music for the Magic Theatre" (weird and entertaining) - for instance.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

drpraetorus said:


> Well, you know Piston. He has his ups and downs.


Oh, that's bad! <Groaning loudly>


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Piano Quintet; Violin Concerto; The Naxos disc containing Symphony 5; String Quartets (Conccord4); "Music for the Magic Theatre" (weird and entertaining) - for instance.


Thanks! I have his Cantio Sacra, but I don't think it's representative of his work.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Has any one noticed that some of the greatest music is by some guy/gal named Annonymous?

One of the most influential American composers was a black annonymous. These are the slave spirituals. When I was a kid in school we called them "Negro Spirituals" I do not know what the accepted term is now. But at least we learned what they were and what they sounded like and how impiortant they were in the lives of the slaves and the subtle rebellion they contain. Now, most kids in schools have no idea what they are. We do not teach our culture in America anymore. We hardly teach our history. I taught high school in Los Angeles a few years ago. I mentioned the Donner-Reed Party. All I got was blank stares. 

Back to the subject. One of the most beautifull songs in American culture is the spiritual "Deep River". If you are looking for a real good performance of the spirituals, Jesse Norman has a couple CD's of them. Bryn Terfal has a reording of Deep River and Swing Low Sweet Charriot.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJJ3PlU-lKg&feature=fvsr


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)




----------



## cjvinthechair (Aug 6, 2012)

Great names mentioned: a few fairly modern names here who've written pieces I thoroughly enjoy, & may ere long be 'great' American composers.
Daniel Asia
Richard Danielpour
Norman Dello Joio
Eric Ewazen
Nicholas Flagello
Louis Glass
Jennifer Higdon
Jeff Manookian 
David Maslanka
Peter Mennin


----------



## cjvinthechair (Aug 6, 2012)

cjvinthechair said:


> Great names mentioned: a few fairly modern names here who've written pieces I thoroughly enjoy, & may ere long be 'great' American composers.
> Daniel Asia
> Richard Danielpour
> Norman Dello Joio
> ...


Sorry - what a p*****k, putting Louis Glass in (apologies to all proud Danes !)
Replace him if I may with Richard Yardumian


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Charles Ives
> Frank Zappa
> John Cage
> Samuel Barber
> ...


Many of those names just write crap music.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I somehow missed this thread:

I'll try here, though lots of my favorite american music isn't by composers in the traditional sense, and with more recent jazz, I just know what I like and am not up on who composed what or how it was realized as a piece of music.

In order:

Aaron Copland
Leonard Bernstein
Samuel Barber
George Gershwin
Scott Joplin
William Schuman
Alan Hovhaness
Charles Ives
Roy Harris
Walter Piston 
*John Adams
**Arthur Foote
***Frank Zappa 

*Adams is a worthy contemporary addition
**12th place but worthy of the list, a high quality craftsmen in the late romantic tradition and the first to graduate with a degree in composition from an American school.
***Zappa is very good and very versatile, though a bit crazy and absurd at times.


Honorable mentions to some other more tonal classical names: Eric Whitacre, Vincent Persichetti, David Diamond, Howard Hanson

traditional tonal: Gottschalk, McDowell

More atonal classical names: Elliot Carter, Roger Sessions

In his own category-Harry Partch

more popular/populist composers, Leroy Anderson, Stephen Sondheim, John Philip Sousa, John Williams, James Horner.

That's about all I can think of. I'm not going to tackled jazz as, like I said, I don't know who composed what. Rock is great but mostly not composed.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Ives
Zappa
Partch
Copland
W. Schuman
Cage
Carter
Ellington
Mingus
Nancarrow


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Charles Ives (1874-1954)
John Cage (1912-1992)
Aaron Copland (1900-1990)
Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
Steve Reich (1936-)
Terry Riley (1935-)
Milton Babbitt (1916-2011)
Charles Wuorinen (193
Roger Sessions (1896-1985)
Philip Glass (1937-)

Honorable mentions:

George Crumb (1929-)
Frank Zappa (1940-1993)
Elliott Carter (1908-2012)
Lamont Young (1935-)
Harry Partch (1901-1974)
Martin Amlin (1953-)
Joseph Schwantner (1943-)
Gunther Schuller (1925-)
George Perle (1915-2009)
Ruth Crawford Seeger (1901-1953)
Henry Cowell (1897-1965)
Carl Ruggles (1876-1971)


----------



## xuantu (Jul 23, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Many of those names just write crap music.


You make me very worried about you, HarpsichordConcerto.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Any list of mine would have to include Ned Rorem, especially for the songs I've heard.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I have no idea. Yesterday's list would be different than today's and tomorrow's. So I thought I would submit an ego list that would be silly attempt to impress everyone except 'HarpsichordConcerto'.

I went through my CD database and the following are the top ten American composers in my collections with the number of works. (Note: Missing would be the many non-classical composers I admire like Duke Ellington, Paul McCartney and Stephen Sondheim.)


Elliott Carter-105
Samuel Barber-104 (Many duplicates here. As a band junkie I have three recording of the _Commando March._)
Aaron Copeland-84
Alan Hovhaness-80
Charles Ives-68
William Schuman-67 (Band junkie disclaimer. Four recordings of _George Washington Bridge._)
John Corigliano-61
Morton Gould-61 (Band junkie disclaimer. Four recordings of _West Point Symphony._)
Vincent Persichetti-57 (Band junkie disclaimer. Seven recordings of the _Symphony for Band._)
Leonard Bernstein-48


----------



## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

what happened to John Phillip Sousa?


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

obwan said:


> what happened to John Phillip Sousa?


Interesting question. My guess is that the reason he did not appear in the top ten is because he was primarily a band composer, while the other composers wrote music in many genres. Barber only composed one band work. None of the primarily band composers represented in my collection appeared in my top ten list of American composers. The highest American band composer was David Maslanka and he came in 16th. Although there are many Sousa works in my collections only one of them is a not a march and only one is duplicated: _Stars and Stripes Forever_. My favorite Sousa march is _Hands Across the Sea _ and ironically I have no CD of it but I have an LP. I play Sousa so frequently with my community band that I really do not feel the urge to own dozens of recordings. For example, our band uses _Stars and Stripes Forever_ as an encore and we will play it at least once a season. That is enough to satisfy my Sousa fix. On the other hand the Persichetti _Symphony for Band_ is one of my favorite band works and I have never played it.

One of the problems with Sousa is that the vast majority of the recordings of Sousa's marches are badly performed. When Sousa published his marches he would employ a significant amount of doubling of the parts so they could be playable by amateur bands. Grainger also employed this technique in some of his band works. For example, in the late 19th century very few amateur bands had competent bassoon players. As a result the bassoon part was double in the bari sax, euphonium and trombone parts. If one performed the music as written, even if bassoon players were performing Scottish Bagpipe Sonatas no one could hear them.

In reality Sousa rarely performed his marches as they were published. A Sousa march is composed of two strains and a trio. Each of these parts would be repeated. Many time Sousa would cut back the instrumentation when he conducted one of his marches. For example, he might cut back the number of players the first time the band would play the second strain and would bring in the whole band for the repeat. We do this all of the time with the band I play with. We had a guest conductor who was a Sousa scholar and this is how we played the marches. He actually published several of Sousa marches that made use of his performance practices. This makes the marches much more interesting. I have had difficulty finding recordings of his marches that utilized his perfroming practices.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> Morton Gould-61 (Band junkie disclaimer. Four recordings of _West Point Symphony._)


what are your favorites of him?


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

norman bates said:


> what are your favorites of him?


I do not know. I have rarely met a Gould that I did not like.

I remember many years ago our orchestra played an arrangement of "Jingle Bells" by Gould. It was fantastic. It shows that a great arranger/composer can turn anything into great music.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> I do not know. I have rarely met a Gould that I did not like.
> 
> I remember many years ago our orchestra played an arrangement of "Jingle Bells" by Gould. It was fantastic. It shows that a great arranger/composer can turn anything into great music.


I played his arrangement of "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" (It's called something else but I forgot) when I was in Youth Symphony. That was a pretty cool piece.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

violadude said:


> I played his arrangement of "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" (It's called something else but I forgot) when I was in Youth Symphony. That was a pretty cool piece.


It is called _American Salute_. Great bassoon part.


----------



## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

1. John Williams (*1932)


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Leonard Bernstein
Samuel Barber
Aaron Copland
George Gershwin
Charles Tomlinson Griffes
Stephen Sondheim
John Williams
John Adams
Robert Aldridge
Richard Rodgers


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

*For me:*

David Diamond
Charles Ives
Paul Creston
Randall Thompson
Leonard Bernstein
William Grant Still 
Ned Rorem
Duke Ellington
Thelonious Monk
Scott Joplin
Samuel Barber
George Antheil
Count Basie
Pete Seeger


----------



## Listener (Sep 20, 2010)

Glass
Reich
Adams
Gershwin
Copland
Jerry Goldsmith
Benny Goodman


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

obwan said:


> what happened to John Phillip Sousa?


Uh, all parade ground marches nearly all the time?  I know, there is Johann Strauss, but he twarn't Amuricin.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Arsakes said:


> Sousa is American sunshine


In that warm fuzzy militaristic sort of way?


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

1. John Adams (b. 1947) - A controversial first, I realize. His work is uneven, but as the years have gone on, the cumulative variety and weight of his work is beginning to show through: big works like _Nixon in China_, _Harmonielehre_, _Century Rolls_, and _Dharma at Big Sur_; small masterworks such as _Shaker Loops_, _John's Book of Alleged Dances_, _China Gates_, and _Hallelujah Junction_. I'm looking forward to explore what just got released: _The Gospel of the Other Mary_

2. Steve Reich (b. 1936)
3. Elliott Carter (1908-2012)
4. Andrew Hill (1931-2007)
5. Charles Mingus (1922-1979)
6. Samuel Barber (1910-1981)
7. Wayne Shorter (b. 1933)
8. Frederic Rzewski (b. 1938)
9. Aaron Copland (1900-1990)
10. Duke Ellington (1899-1974)

I have deliberately left off my favorite jazz artist, Miles Davis, since his greatness was not in composition. His brilliance was his restless search for spontaneous excellence -- his ability to again and again remake his sound. Of course, his real gift was as a talent scout, choosing to surround himself with brilliant new talent. For collective improvisation no group has ever surpassed the brilliance of his 2nd Quintet (Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams, Ron Carter). For an excellent musicological analysis of their work, see Keith Water, _The Studio Recordings of Miles Davis Quintet, 1965-68_, Oxford Studies in Recorded Jazz (Oxford University Press, 2011)


----------



## JakeBloch (Mar 27, 2014)

Vaneyes said:


> Barber, Carter, Schoenberg, Hovhaness, Krenek, Gershwin, Bernstein, Porter, Bloch, Korngold.


I count five of these composers who never thought they would be called 'Americans' when they were 20.

That said, previously foreign Bloch, Korngold and (someday) Hovhaness (plus Barber) are among my favorites. Well, and we all like early Schoenberg - I certainly do.

Great list!


----------



## JakeBloch (Mar 27, 2014)

drpraetorus said:


> Gottschalk
> Joplin
> Gershwin
> Hovhanes
> ...


Hi. Great movie names .. Elmer Bernstein wrote 'Magnificent Seven', as well as 'To Kill A Mockingbird'.

Also Hugo Friedhofer wrote the fantastic music for the film 'The Best Years of Our Lives', and got a well-deserved Oscar.

Or should I write 'Oskar"? - He was German.


----------



## JakeBloch (Mar 27, 2014)

drpraetorus said:


> Well, you know Piston. He has his ups and downs.


He can't come up until he comes down.

Eventually I guess he just ran out of gas.

If composing means controlled ecstasy, what is Piston doing with his controlled explosions?

Piston's music really blows!

Piston must write great horn music, because he's full of compressed hot air.

Piston's music doesn't move me because it is missing a spark.

That which goes down must eventually come up.

He's so repetitive!

He can't write "tutti" because he cannot fire on all cylinders at the same time.

So what that Mahler had 3 hammerblows in his 6th Symphony, Piston has 33 every second!

I never enjoyed that Piston piece; it never got out of first gear for me.

Sometimes it seems Piston's music is just on automatic.

I am pretty neutral on Piston's music; it has a lot of energy, but never goes anywhere.

I like most of Piston's music - it just keeps on going. But his attempt to write in the style of early Renaissance Isorythmic motets was a mess, because he had to slow down almost to a stop everytime he tried to play the notes in reverse order.

No wonder Piston's music has lost so much popularity - it is way too expensive; when he was composing, gasoline was only 45 cents a gallon.

Piston's music is so exhausting!

Piston's cannot write any atonal music, because he can't go anywhere without a key.

Piston's music always sound the same: always staccato, never legato.

Buckle up, guys, the next piece is by Piston.

The music critics all agree: they like Piston's tunes, but the overall work "lacked a spark", "never got into high gear", "didn't change direction smoothly", "was overloaded with too much extra-musical baggage", and "simply ran out of gas". One reviewer "could not absorb the shock of what he had heard".


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Elliot Carter
Ives
Joan Tower
Zappa
Samuel Barber
Charles Wuorinen
Joseph Schwantner
Steve Reich
Adams
Bernstein


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. Ives and Bernstein were terrific composers.


----------



## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

Alan Hovhaness would top my list. 

Interestingly, he was born in the US (Massachusetts), which I did not realize for a long time.

Probably Lieberson, Ives, Carter, Barber, Laderman, and Cage.

For living composers:

I think highly of David Lang, Missy Mazzoli, John Harbison, and Lowell Liebermann.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

As of this time the names Schuman, Persichetti, Mennin, Ives, Copland, Barber and Corigliano come up.

And because he settled in America, perhaps Henry Bartok Johnson?


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I won't list Schoenberg or Stravinsky because I don't consider them to be American.

In no particular order...

01. Elliott Carter
02. Morton Feldman
03. Harry Partch
04. Henry Cowell
05. Conlon Nancarrow
06. Stefan Wolpe
07. Robert Ashley
08. Milton Babbitt 
09. Alvin Lucier
10. Christian Wolff

Honorable mention: George Crumb


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*CD Collection*

I really can not answer this.

But I do have a good database program (ClassiCat) and it can generate a report that tells me how many works I have recordings of by composer. The report unfortunately does not filter our duplicates. For example, I have six recording of the Barber _Violin Concerto._

So here are the results as of April 1, 2014.

1. Elliott Carter 112
2. Samuel Barber 105
3. Aaron Copland 91
4. Alan Hovhaness 81
5. William Schuman 78
6. Vincent Persichetti 77
7. Morton Gould 76
8, John Corigliano 64*
9. Leonard Bernstein 51
10. David Maslanka 47*

*Living Composer

Hope you find the above interesting.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> I really can not answer this.
> 
> But I do have a good database program (ClassiCat) and it can generate a report that tells me how many works I have recordings of by composer. The report unfortunately does not filter our duplicates. For example, I have six recording of the Barber _Violin Concerto._
> 
> ...


That's a very healthy list. I imagine the Isaac Stern Barber Violin Concerto is in there somewhere.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Barber Violin Concerto Stern*



hpowders said:


> That's a very healthy list. I imagine the Isaac Stern Barber Violin Concerto is in there somewhere.


Yep.................................


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> Yep.................................


Do you ever play its disc mate, the Hindemith Violin Concerto? And while I have you here, how do the Hindemith piano sonatas stack up against Persichetti's?

Thanks!


----------



## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> 01. Elliott Carter
> 02. Morton Feldman
> 03. Harry Partch
> 04. Henry Cowell
> ...


I could copy this list straight of with the exception of Elliott Carter, I'm not that fond of his music, I'd probably ascend George Crumb to his position and give *Charlie Ives* a Honourable mention!

/ptr


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*?????????????????*



hpowders said:


> Do you ever play its disc mate, the Hindemith Violin Concerto? And while I have you here, how do the Hindemith piano sonatas stack up against Persichetti's?
> 
> Thanks!


If I understand the first question I do not have a recording of Stern performing the Hindemith _Violin Concerto_. My recording is with Dene Olding on CPO: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=25370&name_role1=2&bcorder=2&label_id=1118

As far as the second question is concerned I really do not know. Although Hindemith and Persichetti are among my favorite composers, I am not that familiar with their Piano Sonatas. Prior to the New World Set, which I have just purchased, the only Persichetti Sonatas that I was familiar with are the _Third_ and the _Ninth_. I only have one set of recordings of the Hindemith Piano Sonatas: the Md&g recording with Kalle Randalu: http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Sonatas-Nos-1-3-Vari/dp/B0000061YO/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1396577839&sr=1-9&keywords=randalu

Maybe once I become for more familiar with these works.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)




----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

I love to play this video for non-believers of how great Zappa was at composing, not to mention the incredible complexity of his music. Also of special note is his absolute MONSTROUS guitar playing with a virtuosic ability to subdivide a measure of 4/4 like nobody's business.


----------



## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

My knowledge of American classical composers is severely limited so I'll throw in a few of the Great American Songbook composers. I guess I better get on some classical American listening...

1. Richard Rodgers
2. Cole Porter
3. George Gershwin
4. Harold Arlen
5. Irving Berlin
6. Jerome Kern
7. Aaron Copland
8. Duke Ellington
9. Scott Joplin
10. Jimmy Van Heusen


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Frank Zappa: Was he truly a great composer or are his fans merely tripping over themselves to call him a 'genius' simply because the bar isn't set very high in rock music?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Frank Zappa: Was he truly a great composer or are his fans merely tripping over themselves to call him a 'genius' simply because the bar isn't set very high in rock music?


Implied critical comment on Music Forum Site _re: Zappa as 'serious / classical' composer_ sets off war of attrition. 
World in flames ~ Film at eleven! :lol:


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Frank Zappa: Was he truly a great composer or are his fans merely tripping over themselves to call him a 'genius' simply because the bar isn't set very high in rock music?


No one can tell you that but yourself. If he doesn't float your boat, then it's fine and understood. But do recognize that yes there are us folks out there that recognize his genius. No other composer in the history of music has accomplished what Zappa did in his 52 years when you take his body of work as a whole. THAT cannot be argued. True originality and an uncompromising vision in any art are ingredients that may deem an artist a genius, and if you are familiar with his work, then it's easy to see why he is labeled as such. YMMV.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Frank Zappa: Was he truly a great composer or are his fans merely tripping over themselves to call him a 'genius' simply because the bar isn't set very high in rock music?


Part 2 as an answer to your question:

If you think the 'bar' isn't set very high in rock music, then you are listening to the wrong stuff brother! I would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you check out bands/artists such as Zappa, Henry Cow, Magma, Thinking Plague, The Residents, Stevan Kovacs Tickmayer, Univers Zero, Present, Kōenji Hyakkei, Cardiacs, Fred Frith, Bob Drake, This Heat, Faust, Can, Hatfield and the North, National Health, The Canterbury Scene, labels such as Recommended Records, Cuneiform, Ipecac, Tzadik, etc etc. ....man I could go on all night here!....

That should get you started and more than enough for you to realize that so-called "rock" music can achieve the level of classical, and even surpass it in some areas.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

chalkpie said:


> No one can tell you that but yourself. If he doesn't float your boat, then it's fine and understood. But do recognize that yes there are us folks out there that recognize his genius. *No other composer in the history of music has accomplished what Zappa did in his 52 years when you take his body of work as a whole. THAT cannot be argued.* True originality and an uncompromising vision in any art are ingredients that may deem an artist a genius, and if you are familiar with his work, then it's easy to see why he is labeled as such. YMMV.


I'm pretty sure that can be argued.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

chalkpie said:


> ...No other composer in the history of music has accomplished what Zappa did in his 52 years when you take his body of work as a whole. THAT cannot be argued. True originality and an uncompromising vision in any art are ingredients that may deem an artist a genius, and if you are familiar with his work, then it's easy to see why he is labeled as such. YMMV.


Stravinsky would not agree.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

chalkpie said:


> Part 2 as an answer to your question:
> 
> If you think the 'bar' isn't set very high in rock music, then you are listening to the wrong stuff brother! I would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you check out bands/artists such as Zappa, Henry Cow, Magma, Thinking Plague, The Residents, Stevan Kovacs Tickmayer, Univers Zero, Present, Kōenji Hyakkei, Cardiacs, Fred Frith, Bob Drake, This Heat, Faust, Can, Hatfield and the North, National Health, The Canterbury Scene, labels such as Recommended Records, Cuneiform, Ipecac, Tzadik, etc etc. ....man I could go on all night here!....
> 
> That should get you started and more than enough for you to realize that so-called "rock" music can achieve the level of classical, and even surpass it in some areas.


Cuneiform and Tzadik publish some great music. The latter is a well respected and eclectic label which focuses more on contemporary/modern classical and jazz than it does on rock music. The rock bands you mentioned are just that; rock bands, and while some of their music may be interesting, it is quite inferior to the work of Zappa's two greatest idols: Stravinsky and Varèse.


----------



## Rackon (Apr 9, 2013)

In no particular order except for Sam:

Samuel Barber
Aaron Copland
Charles Ives
Ned Rorem
Leonard Bernstein
Charles Hansen
Randall Thompson
John Corigliano
John Adams
Jennifer Higdon
Lowell Lieberman


----------



## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

chalkpie said:


> No one can tell you that but yourself. If he doesn't float your boat, then it's fine and understood. But do recognize that yes there are us folks out there that recognize his genius. No other composer in the history of music has accomplished what Zappa did in his 52 years when you take his body of work as a whole. THAT cannot be argued. True originality and an uncompromising vision in any art are ingredients that may deem an artist a genius, and if you are familiar with his work, then it's easy to see why he is labeled as such. YMMV.


Huh??? At first I thought you said "history of rock music". But "history of music"?

Your saying it can't be argued that Bach or Beethoven accomplished more than Frank Zappa?


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

chalkpie said:


> No one can tell you that but yourself. If he doesn't float your boat, then it's fine and understood. But do recognize that yes there are us folks out there that recognize his genius. No other composer in the history of music has accomplished what Zappa did in his 52 years when you take his body of work as a whole. THAT cannot be argued. True originality and an uncompromising vision in any art are ingredients that may deem an artist a genius, and if you are familiar with his work, then it's easy to see why he is labeled as such. YMMV.


I see it differently. Zappa to me was a very smart and intelligent person and certainly a very original musician. I really like his idea of music influenced by everything he liked, from Varese to serialism to doowop, blues, jazz, rock'n'roll etc. But I feel that sometimes his eclecticism seems also a bit superficial. Sure, there are brilliant pieces in his discography, but I don't know any composition of him that I would consider a masterpeice. And as a guitarist I've never liked him that much.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Cuneiform and Tzadik publish some great music. The latter is a well respected and eclectic label which focuses more on contemporary/modern classical and jazz than it does on rock music. The rock bands you mentioned are just that; rock bands, and while some of their music may be interesting, it is quite inferior to the work of Zappa's two greatest idols: Stravinsky and Varèse.


I disagree, personally I like a band like the Residents or musicians like Robert Wyatt more than Zappa, and to call many of those groups just "rock bands" as if they were some clones of Chuck Berry is very misleading.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Dustin said:


> Huh??? At first I thought you said "history of rock music". But "history of music"?
> 
> Your saying it can't be argued that Bach or Beethoven accomplished more than Frank Zappa?


No - what I wrote was poorly worded! What I meant to say is that Zappa created a body of work that was highly original and eclectic, and that no composer had accomplished precisely what he did before or since. So I have no problem to place him alongside the BIG GUYS you named for his accomplishment(s). I am not saying he is better or worse than Beethoven and co., just different. I know it's heresy to make such a statement on this forum, but it's my opinion and we all have them it seems


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Stravinsky would not agree.


I love Stravinsky's music to death, but I could honestly care less what he said or thinks. His thoughts or opinions don't change mine.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Cuneiform and Tzadik publish some great music. The latter is a well respected and eclectic label which focuses more on contemporary/modern classical and jazz than it does on rock music. The rock bands you mentioned are just that; rock bands, and while some of their music may be interesting, it is quite inferior to the work of Zappa's two greatest idols: Stravinsky and Varèse.


You state that last bit like it's written as law and common knowledge. C'mon man!

I don't like to compare musical genres/composers/artists like it's some grand sporting event where there is a winner and loser. I view all music as independent of itself and I let my heart and mind decide what's good and what's not.


----------



## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

norman bates said:


> I see it differently. Zappa to me was a very smart and intelligent person and certainly a very original musician. I really like his idea of music influenced by everything he liked, from Varese to serialism to doowop, blues, jazz, rock'n'roll etc. But I feel that sometimes his eclecticism seems also a bit superficial. Sure, there are brilliant pieces in his discography, but I don't know any composition of him that I would consider a masterpeice. And as a guitarist I've never liked him that much.


The part that stings the most for me is the guitar part! Ouch! My FAVORITE guitarist ever. But that's cool.

Masterpiece? "Greggery Peccary" comes to mind. Uncle Meat. Roxy and Elsewhere. "Drowning Witch" is a masterpiece composition to my ears. "Watermelon in Easter Hay". There are a lot more in my mind..


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

norman bates said:


> I see it differently. Zappa to me was a very smart and intelligent person and certainly a very original musician. I really like his idea of music influenced by everything he liked, from Varese to serialism to doowop, blues, jazz, rock'n'roll etc. But I feel that sometimes his eclecticism seems also a bit superficial.


Versatility is a better word, and I for one never get the impression of superficiality when listening to Zappa. That's one of his great strengths. The music never sounds contrived, imo.

Anyway, I want to explore more American composers. I heard a Philip Glass piano piece on the radio the other day that I really enjoyed. Gotta figure out what piece it is. I still haven't listened to any Cowell, Piston, Still, Crumb, or Harris.


----------



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

David diamond, Howard Hanson, Peter mennin, John Williams.


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2015)

chalkpie said:


> You state that last bit like it's written as law and common knowledge. C'mon man!





chalkpie said:


> THAT cannot be argued.


Consistency is the name of the game.


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I think I'll reduce mine to Top 3:
Barber
Copland
Bernstein


----------



## Frei aber froh (Feb 22, 2013)

1. Samuel Barber
2. Howard Hanson
3. Leonard Bernstein
4. Aaron Copland
5. Kenji Bunch
6. Walter Piston
7. Allan Hovhaness
8. David Diamond 
9. George Crumb
10. Christopher Theofanidis

Honorable mention: Jennifer Higdon, Frank Ticheli, John Harbison, Elliot Carter


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

1. John Adams
2. Samuel Barber
3. Aaron Copland
4. Leonard Bernstein
5. George Gershwin
6. David Crumb
7. John Corigliano
8. William Schuman
9. Phillip Glass
10. Michael Daugherty


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Charles Ives
William Schuman
Aaron Copland
Vincent Persichetti
Peter Mennin
Leonard Bernstein
George Gershwin
Samuel Barber
Walter Piston
Roy Harris


----------



## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Adams, John Luther
Budd, Harold
Cage, John
Ives, Charles
Lentz, Daniel
Nancarrow, Conlon
Partch, Harry
Reich, Steve
Riley, Terry
Young, La Monte


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

As far as contemporary composers, I find these three Americans to be quite interesting...

*Michael Hersch

John Luther Adams

Jason Eckardt*


----------



## MJongo (Aug 6, 2011)

In order:
1. Homer Flynn & Hardy Fox (The Residents)
2. Charles Ives
3. Charles Mingus
4. Duke Ellington
5. Harry Partch
6. Frank Zappa
7. Steve Reich
8. Conlon Nancarrow
9. George Crumb
10. Elliott Carter


----------

