# Life experience and artistry



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Some people say that an artist needs to have rich life experience in order to grow and fully develop as an artist. When you've lived life to the fullest, traveled the world, have loved and lost, have been in the gutter and at the top, when you've seen it all... it will reflect in the artistry of the composer/musician being more developed and mature. What is your position on this?
Personally I have my doubts. I think the inner life and musical imagination of the artist is much more important than life experience. Also, inspiration often seems to come from other things than one's own personal life. And how do we explain the artistry of young composers and musicians, or the very reclusive and introverted types?
So my position is that life experience is not entirely irrelevant but also not as important as some people seem to suggest. For example what triggered this post is some negative comments I've read about pianist Evgeny Kissin, who seems to be a bit socially awkward (perhaps aspergers) and possibly lacks some experience in certain areas of life. Does that make him any less of an artist? I don't think so.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I think that composers should follow the advice that is often given to aspiring novelists,"write about what you know." For instance, much of Beethoven's music deals with heroic struggle - something that he knew very well, because of his struggles with deafness. It was wise of Beethoven to write the _Eroica _rather than the _Erotica _- he was familiar with the former, perhaps not so much with the latter! :lol:


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Bettina said:


> I think that composers should follow the advice that is often given to aspiring novelists,"write about what you know." For instance, much of Beethoven's music deals with heroic struggle - something that he knew very well, because of his struggles with deafness.


It is often said that Beethoven's deafness had a profound role in the emotional aspect of his music, but deafness wasn't the only health problem Beethoven had. Could Inflammatory Bowel Disease have been a factor in Beethoven's greatness? (Well, it would make for a great STI post if nothing else!). If Beethoven could have pooped normally, would he have been musically mediocre? Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to say of course. Beethoven obviously had skill and talent in composing and maybe it would have shown regardless, but perhaps in a different way.



> It was wise of Beethoven to write the _Eroica _rather than the _Erotica _- he was familiar with the former, perhaps not so much with the latter! :lol:


Good point. Perhaps Schubert or Schumann should have taken up the task!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Still, we need to realize that music need not be a solitary experience, and probably did not evolve that way. The social dimension of music is what gives it vitality.

Evgeny Kissin "brings music to life" for us when he performs. In this sense, he is providing a very socially-oriented function. Art is ultimately a subjective experience, although it is very exciting to hear it in a social setting; and in the case of performers, our presence and enthusiasm can help the process and make it even more exciting.

I adore Kissin, and I think he has good intentions. Whether or not he has a fully-developed social awareness is in this case irrelevant. I'm keeping all his CDs, and still enjoy them.

With a painter like Richard Gerstl, who could be called a sociopath, we can see how this interferes greatly. Jackson Pollock is perhaps another example of a socially maladjusted artist; but I don't think this detracts from his art.

Social contexts and pressures do change, however, and in the socially-driven society we are now in, the "maladjusted artist" seems to be falling out of favor, as is evidenced by the negative comments about Kissin.

Warhol did a lot to explode this idea of the isolated artist, and was a social butterfly, although it seems this was only a gesture on his part. I think what ultimately creates an artistic sensibility is something that is subjective in nature, almost spiritual, and even Warhol exhibited a curious detachment from his surroundings. His eagerness to "fit in" and please may have been a detriment to the quality of his art, evidenced by the endless "portraits" he did of celebrities and socialites. 

I'm not sure I would like a world of art in which there was no alienation or maladjustment. This kind of art would be happy, adjusted, and gregarious.

What are artists supposed to do now? Do art for charity, paint portraits of wounded veterans, portraits of presidents and families, be on the Dr. Phil show as examples of socially responsible citizens? That sounds exemplary! Congratulations, The Dr. Phil Show has decided to buy you a year's worth of art supplies! We commission chamber works, too!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Many artists worked somewhat outside of the ordinary boundaries and also produced works that are particularly haunting; many also lived outside "normal" society or outside a group of peers. This is certainly true of many painters we could all name: Henri Rousseau springs to mind, as does Albert Pinkham Ryder. Other painters produced equally idiosyncratic work while living far more rich and complex lives: Goya, Van Gogh. So I think that a rich life experience is of secondary importance compared to having a powerful inner imaginative life, which can be augmented by an infatuation with certain key stimuli. The painter George Inness was a fervent Swedenborgian; Ryder was a lover of Shakespeare, Wagner, moonlight, and the sea. An interesting topic.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> Many artists worked somewhat outside of the ordinary boundaries and also produced works that are particularly haunting; many also lived outside "normal" society or outside a group of peers. This is certainly true of many painters we could all name: Henri Rousseau springs to mind, as does Albert Pinkham Ryder. Other painters produced equally idiosyncratic work while living far more rich and complex lives: Goya, Van Gogh. So I think that a rich life experience is of secondary importance compared to having a powerful inner imaginative life, which can be augmented by an infatuation with certain key stimuli. The painter George Inness was a fervent Swedenborgian; Ryder was a lover of Shakespeare, Wagner, moonlight, and the sea. An interesting topic.


Congratulations to all sociopaths, Aspberger's sufferers, and generally alienated loners!


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

I kind of like what John Ciardi said: You don't have to suffer to be a poet; adolescence is enough suffering for anyone.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

If your art serves a social function, it needs life experience, like opera and Broadway musicals. You have to be able to play the piano and smile while chatting with the cast.

TV shows are another socially-engaged art. Norman Lear: socially aware & engaged.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

In writing poetry, I believe you need the experience, if not first hand, something very close. I read a some poems that try to grasp certain concepts that I believe is way beyond the scope of the writer, and it sounds very ingenuine.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> In writing poetry, I believe you need the experience, if not first hand, something very close. I read a some poems that try to grasp certain concepts that I believe is way beyond the scope of the writer, and it sounds very ingenuine.


Now you making us curious.......


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bettina said:


> I think that composers should follow the advice that is often given to aspiring novelists,*"write about what you know." *For instance, much of Beethoven's music deals with heroic struggle - something that he knew very well, because of his struggles with deafness. It was wise of Beethoven to write the _Eroica _rather than the _Erotica _- he was familiar with the former, perhaps not so much with the latter! :lol:


The opposite advice has also been given, and I think many of the very greatest artists have followed it: write about what you don't know. Michelangelo? Shakespeare? Wagner?

Perhaps it's a matter of not defining "what you know" - or "knowing" itself - too narrowly.


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## Guest (May 17, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> In writing poetry, I believe you need the experience, if not first hand, something very close. I read a some poems that try to grasp certain concepts that I believe is way beyond the scope of the writer, and it sounds very ingenuine.


Experience of what, I wonder? If the OP's proposition is true, Mozart's and Keats' works must be regarded as immature, since they didn't live long enough to have the "experience" to make them great.

Alternatively, think how amazing their works would have been had they lived into old age!


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

I wonder about tying music to tightly to defined emotion, or to life experience.

So often music has its own narrative logic, which references nothing but music. It tells a story every bit as engaging and moving as one we might read, but it is not done in a language per se and it is not specifically about an experience of life. It can be entirely about the experience of the music just experienced.

A dominant seventh chord makes you yearn for the tonic. One does not need to have experienced yearning for a loved one to "understand" it, to "get" it. The experience of the dominant seventh creates a real yearning, and that yearning_ is _for the tonic.

What you feel listening to music are real feeling: yearning, disappointment, satisfaction, elation, contentment, but the subject of those feeling is the music, its your reaction to the musical events of the musical story. It need not be "about" anything else.

Sure it can be, but it doesn't have to be.

I attended a concert of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony at SPAC (Saratoga Performing Arts Center). It is an outdoor venue with lawn seating behind the regular seating.

By the middle of the fourth movement everyone had moved in close, standing in awe. People were sniffling and tearing up, some out and out crying. When people saw each other so overwhelmed they themselves became overwhelmed. The orchestra had to notice and I am sure it affect their playing as well. By the end I was exhausted. Many of us were.

This didn't occur because we suddenly understood the German lyrics. Or that we all remembered resolved dramatic events in our lives. This occurred because the music itself, with its own logic, told us a moving story, and we were powerfully moved.


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