# Rachmaninoff piano concerto no.5



## Lerice

Does anyone know well about Rachmaninoff piano concerto no.5 ?
(arranged from symphony no.2)

when was the world premiere? who played and where?

Is this work well known in Europe ?
any special story about this work?
I need as much informations about this work.

I'd appreciate if anyone could help me.

Thank you!


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## Fsharpmajor

There's a recording of it available:

*http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-Piano-Concerto-Based-Symphony/dp/B0015XAT1Q*


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## emiellucifuge

I wa given the recording very recently but havent yet listened.

It was arranged by Alexander Warenberg, he made large cuts and the piano part is written in traiditional Rachmaninov style with the piano blending in very well.


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## Aramis

emiellucifuge said:


> It was arranged by Alexander Weissenberg


Alexander Warenberg


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## emiellucifuge

Haha oops!
just talking from memory but I will edit my post in case it confuses anyone.


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## Edward Elgar

It was adapted from an edited version of the 2nd symphony which was found in a wine cellar and never released.


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## TWhite

Interesting. I have a piano duet copy of the Symphony, which a friend and I have performed several times at some local musician's gatherings, but I've never heard of a piano-orchestral version. 

Actually, the Symphony #2 is so well written for orchestra, that even the piano duet version (even as much fun as it is to play) doesn't cut it. I mean, a Steinway is NOT a bevy of French Horns, LOL!

I'm reminded of the Ormandy recording of the Tchiakovsky "Symphony #7", which was re-constructed from portions of his Third Piano Concerto (which was itself re-constructed by a pupil from Tchiakovsky's sketches). and turned out to be a kind of "Classical Chuckle". 

IMO, Rachmaninov's Fifth Piano Concerto is his "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini". Sorry, but I'm certainly not interested in hearing a piano-orchestral version of the Symphony #2. It's an ORCHESTRAL work, folks! Seems to me that somebody's out to make a Fast Classical Buck. 

Tom


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## Huge

and there was me thinking he only wrote three


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## emiellucifuge

Well if we ignore the rather dubious fifth then we still have 4 real ones!


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## TWhite

Huge said:


> and there was me thinking he only wrote three


Huge:

The Concerto #4 in g minor is probably the least performed. I find it interesting--it certainly starts out well--but it gets a little diffuse, and critics of the day jumped all over him for the main theme of the second movement, which resembles a minor-key version of "Three Blind Mice".

There are actually two versions of his First Concerto--the one he wrote as a student in the 1890's, and the later, drastically different 1917 revision. International Music Co. publishes the original, but I've yet to hear of it being recorded. However, the 1917 version is a real audience-grabber (especially the Finale) when it's performed by a pianist who can successfully tackle the technical difficulties.

Tom


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## Huge

Thanks TW, I'll have a look out for that.


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## Carter

[email protected] ref: Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto #5
Go to UTube and save a bunch of performances including the first performance in Russia. Warenberg went to Switzerland and got written permission from the Grandson or Great Grandson of Sergei Rachmaninov to arrange the concerto from Symphony #2 which is now history. Valentina Lisitsa has a YouTube performance on her home Bosendorfer of the complete concerto without orchestra obviously getting ready for public performance probably with London for recording and other places for test live performances. Matsuev did the first Moscow performance. Anna Federova did a marvelous interpetation and performance with the Ofunam Orchestra in Mexico City.


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## myaskovsky2002

The 4th is bad...I imagine the 5th somebody made it up! Like Tchaikovsky's 7th symphony or 3rd concerto....

mmm....

Martin


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## Rach1

I found an interesting site about this new concerto !

I enjoyed comparing the performances !!!!!!!! 
Here is the link: https://sites.google.com/site/rachmaninoffpianoconcertono5/


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## Delicious Manager

I'm afraid I find the whole notion of this piece something of a travesty. I have listened to it but find Warenberg's attitude arrogant in the extreme ("The modifications he made are designed to improve sound and balance."). Well, I'm glad that Mr Warenberg is a better musician (or thinks he is) than Rakhmaninov.

While I enjoy 'completions' (as stated in another thread yesterday) and also admire skillful and respectful arrangements, I can find nothing to love about 'Rakhmaninov 5'. Had Sergei wanted to write a piano concerto, I'm sure he would have done so.


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## Carter

I would remind the gentleman from Littlehampton that most composing starts out on the piano and develops from there into differing degrees of orchestration, if desired by either the composer or an orchestrator. Also in the case of Rachmaninoff's (English) Rachmaninov's (European) 2nd Symphony there was an early annotated incomplete piano version found somewhere that is probably part of Racmaninoff's estate by now. As too liking or disliking a particular composition, like art, the beauty is in the hearing of it.
The history of music is rampant with composers changing their minds endlessly and rewriting a piece to suit themselves. In other words, the shades of grey between black and white is in the millions, well at least 3.5 million that is visable.


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## Vaneyes

The 4th is bad? Then that listener has not heard ABM's recording.


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## Carter

Interesting commentary........some based on lack of history..........His 4th piano concerto was written 3 years before he died in 1943. It is probably one of his most intellectual pieces written and demonstrates again his sophisticated orchestration capabilities. Just as good as Rimsky-Korsakov if not better. Both his 2nd symphony and the arranged 5th concerto are very interesting. Rachmaninov did start the 5th which was recovered and I'm sure out of musical respect was incorporated by Warenberg. Again, beauty is in the listeners ear. YouTube has a good variety for the listener and todays computers and applications can bring very large sound bandwidths and high defininition video that is simply amazing with the right equipment for music lovers. Enjoy!


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## myaskovsky2002

As I can see...this is a tool to sale stuff as the Tchaikovsky's 3rd concerto...or Beethoven's 10th symphony...or Martin's piano concerto (that is me). LOL

Martin


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## Rach1

I've been enjoying Rach 5 for several years now and recently I've come accross a new recording! Recorded by the rising korean star, Julius Kim, Michael Francis and the London Symphony Orchestra: 




About the previous post by Delicious Manager: I happen to know Mr Warenberg personally and he DOES NOT believe to be a better musician than Rachmaninoff whatsoever!

I've purchased the CD lately and will post my thoughts about it as soon i've listened to it


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## moody

Edward Elgar said:


> It was adapted from an edited version of the 2nd symphony which was found in a wine cellar and never released.


That proves that the person was probably smashed at the time--how grotesque1


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## moody

Rach1 said:


> I've been enjoying Rach 5 for several years now and recently I've come accross a new recording! Recorded by the rising korean star, Julius Kim, Michael Francis and the London Symphony Orchestra:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the previous post by Delicious Manager: I happen to know Mr Warenberg personally and he DOES NOT believe to be a better musician than Rachmaninoff whatsoever!
> 
> I've purchased the CD lately and will post my thoughts about it as soon i've listened to it


I thought it was Weissenberg and he's dead!


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## moody

Carter said:


> Interesting commentary........some based on lack of history..........His 4th piano concerto was written 3 years before he died in 1943. It is probably one of his most intellectual pieces written and demonstrates again his sophisticated orchestration capabilities. Just as good as Rimsky-Korsakov if not better. Both his 2nd symphony and the arranged 5th concerto are very interesting. Rachmaninov did start the 5th which was recovered and I'm sure out of musical respect was incorporated by Warenberg. Again, beauty is in the listeners ear. YouTube has a good variety for the listener and todays computers and applications can bring very large sound bandwidths and high defininition video that is simply amazing with the right equipment for music lovers. Enjoy!


Well, the Rimsky-Korsakov is rubbish so that's faint praise.


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## moody

So, it was Warenberg---I just looked it up, but I am not really interested. Somebody finished Schubert's Unfinished you know and that was a nonsense!


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## Frasier

Vaneyes said:


> The 4th is bad? Then that listener has not heard ABM's recording.


You can say that again! Beautiful indeed.


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## Larkenfield

Here's a recording:






Sorry, but not for me. Too much unnatural struggle between the orchestra and piano. It sounds like an attempt to resurrect the dead (without the Isle) and I think it's unnecessary and misguided. Rachmaninoff wrote a concerto for each finger but not for a thumb. Let him R.I.P.


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## SixFootScowl

The "Concerto Elegiaque," which is an expansion of Rachmaninoff's 1894 chamber work "Trio Elegiaque" into a piano concerto in D Minor, has also been called Rachmaninoff's 5th Concerto. 
Here it is on CD: www.amazon.com/dp/B000000AUA/


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## SONNET CLV

For those of you who disapprove of the Rach Fifth based on the composer's own 2nd Symphony, there's always Richard Addinsell's _Warsaw Concerto_ to bring you comfort!


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## EdwardBast

A pathetic, vulgar, vampiric attempt to suck money from a corpse. Shun the weasels perpetrating this farce.


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## Marsilius

Just regard it as a bit of over the top fun. On that basis, I loved it on disc:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/June08/Rachmaninoff_pc5_8900.htm

By the way, there's also a "Brahms piano concerto no. 3" along the same lines:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/May10/Brahms_Lazic_CCSSA29410.htm


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