# Most unpleasant composers?



## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Which composers have the worst reputation, _*personality-wise*_? Not counting criminals (like Gesualdo) or people with ugly political views (like Wagner).

Who were just plain nasty, malicious, spiteful, backstabbing, egoistic, megalomaniacal, violent or mean?


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

ummm.... Beethoven of course. But his is a mixed story.


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

From what I've read, Rimsky-Korsakov wasn't always a pleasant fellow. (Of course, much like many others, a lot of that may be attributable to potato-based spirits.)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I can't think of any classical composers/musicians at the moment; but in the jazz world, clarinettist *Benny Goodman *was reputedly a bitch to work with. He was so perfectionist and ****, and demanded probably too much from musicians working with him...

EDIT: I also remember reading that the conductor *Toscanini* was also difficult to work with, maybe someone else has some more information?


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

Lukecash12 said:


> ummm.... Beethoven of course. But his is a mixed story.


I think I'll go with Beethoven too. Probably not a totally bad person on balance, but the way he treated his nephew and sister-in-law was still appalling.


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

Andre said:


> I can't think of any classical composers/musicians at the moment; but in the jazz world, clarinettist *Benny Goodman *was reputedly a bitch to work with. He was so perfectionist and ****, and demanded probably too much from musicians working with him...


If we're talking jazz, Miles Davis is the first person to pop into my head. Reportedly a very jealous and possessive lover.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Yes... Miles was reportedly a real *******.

Still love his work.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

Boulez.

It might be unfair since history has a way of polishing the personalities of great artists. If you watch Copying Beethoven you get a sense of: "ah, he was alright reeeally"

Moderns suffer in comparison. But all the same, I can't stand that man.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I have read somewhere that Rameau was a real curmudgeon and that Bernard Hermann was very abrasive. I think Beethoven's abrasiveness was actually exaggerated by the media. The whole thing with his nephew was uncalled for however -- and a bit strange.

On the other hand the nicest composers might have been Haydn and Liszt.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Il Seraglio said:


> If we're talking jazz, Miles Davis is the first person to pop into my head. Reportedly a very jealous and possessive lover.


He was a heroine addict, if I remember right.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Weston said:


> I have read somewhere that Rameau was a real curmudgeon and that Bernard Hermann was very abrasive. I think Beethoven's abrasiveness was actually exaggerated by the media. The whole thing with his nephew was uncalled for however -- and a bit strange.
> 
> On the other hand the nicest composers might have been Haydn and Liszt.


Alkan was supposedly very pleasant to people. And even though he was afraid of the scandal he could receive as a result of have an illegitimate son, he was always welcome in Alkan's home (even when Alkan was a major recluse later on), and really treated him like his own child.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Il Seraglio said:


> I think I'll go with Beethoven too. Probably not a totally bad person on balance, but the way he treated his nephew and sister-in-law was still appalling.


Sometimes I feel as if Beethoven might have been bipolar. He certainly seemed to contradict his own normal thought process a few times. Anyone else get that feeling?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Lukecash12 said:


> Sometimes I feel as if Beethoven might have been bipolar. He certainly seemed to contradict his own normal thought process a few times. Anyone else get that feeling?


I've just read the Wikipedia article, and it says that he may have had bipolar disorder, it's been surmised, but never proven. It also says he might have been a freemason. There are so many unanswered questions about Beethoven...


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Andre said:


> I've just read the Wikipedia article, and it says that he may have had bipolar disorder, it's been surmised, but never proven. It also says he might have been a freemason. There are so many unanswered questions about Beethoven...


I really would take the free mason idea with a 10 pound block of salt, but the idea of Bipolar Disorder seems plausible. Either that, or we're just trying to excuse naughty behavior in a composer we all like That's okay, I still like listening to his music.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I've read some very negative things about Benjamin Britten somewhere, but it seems so far out that I have to take it with a grain of salt. I've read that he was among other things a serial child molester. The problem with many things you read on the internet that it's hard to seperate fact from fiction.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Schonberg must have had an absolutely evil personality to have written the music he did. A true sadist.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I've read some very negative things about Benjamin Britten somewhere, but it seems so far out that I have to take it with a grain of salt. I've read that he was among other things a serial child molester. The problem with many things you read on the internet that it's hard to seperate fact from fiction.


The "serial" is the only wrong bit. He made a move on a young boy, who was having none of it. Britten suffered badly from that incident and didn't repeat it. You get the impression that Britten himself was a child for much longer than most people... kind of seeing similarities with Michael Jackson!


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> I've read some very negative things about Benjamin Britten somewhere, but it seems so far out that I have to take it with a grain of salt. I've read that he was among other things a serial child molester. The problem with many things you read on the internet that it's hard to seperate fact from fiction.


It was probably an article by David Wright you are thinking about. That article was so vicious that the publishers (Music Web International) appear to have removed it, together with a lot of other material by the same author. The following used to be my link to that article: http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Artemis said:


> It was probably an article by David Wright you are thinking about. That article was so vicious that the publishers (Music Web International) appear to have removed it, together with a lot of other material by the same author. The following used to be my link to that article: http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm.


I think that's the one, yes. He also claims that Britten was a very mediocre composer. The same guy also wrote a vicious article about Elgar.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I think that's the one, yes. He also claims that Britten was a very mediocre composer. The same guy also wrote a vicious article about Elgar.


I never understand these people who spend more time hating who they hate, than loving who they love. This is probably my main annoyance at Boulez!


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Tapkaara said:


> Schonberg must have had an absolutely evil personality to have written the music he did. A true sadist.


I've read the first half of Alex Ross's "The Rest Is Noise" and indeed Arnie seemed to be a bit of an ****.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Balakirev was very bad-tempered and tyrannical, according to my music encyclopedia. It also says that Lully was a paedophile.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Actually, Stravinsky was said to be a real jerk. He was constantly perched atop his high horse and treated others poorly, often with disrespect, if he felt they were on a lower plane of existence than him.

I guess his genius got to his head a little.


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## nimmysnv (Oct 1, 2009)

Hi,

Only one name in my mind Boulez.

Its not personal at all !!


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Weston said:


> On the other hand the nicest composers might have been Haydn and Liszt.


Dont forget Antonin Dvorak.


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> Actually, Stravinsky was said to be a real jerk. He was constantly perched atop his high horse and treated others poorly, often with disrespect, if he felt they were on a lower plane of existence than him.
> 
> I guess his genius got to his head a little.


Yes, that seems to be true.. His book of interviews with Robert Craft really show his arrogance and his condescending manner.. He even refers to Prokofiev as a mediocre composer and musician, if I remember correctly..


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

According to a biography on Danish painter Marie Krøyer, life with Swedish composer *Hugo Alfvén* was not pure marital bliss. Apparently, he was narcissistic and condescending, and a notorious womanizer.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Lukecash12;76419 said:


> He was a heroine addict, if I remember right.


Miles Davis did get into junk in time-honoured jazz fashion for a period but one day sometime in the mid-50s while he had other health issues he shut himself away, went cold turkey and reportedly never took it again. He still remained fond of the weed though, so I gather.


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## radiohlite (Feb 16, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> Schonberg must have had an absolutely evil personality to have written the music he did. A true sadist.


i used to think that till i saw this:


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## toucan (Sep 27, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> Schonberg must have had an absolutely evil personality to have written the music he did. A true sadist.


Nah; good, wholesome entertainment


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## Barking Spiderz (Feb 1, 2011)

Dunno about CM composers but Charles Mingus had an infamously bad temper and wasn't averse to punching the lights out of band members if they played a bum note or some such. Have also heard Jelly Roll Morton wasnt a delightful character. Of course if you're looking for really nasty pieces of work there are plenty in the rock world to choose from


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## blomster (Feb 2, 2011)

Anyone thinks that Wagner is another nasty composer personally-wise? He is really a selfish one and needs to dominate everything.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Seconding an earlier post, Lully was a total *******. He was a predatory homosexual and wasn't fussy about who he tried it on with. He once punched a heavily pregnant soprano in the stomach to make her miscarry and not miss performances of one of his operas. Nice!

I know several people who knew Britten well. Although he loved to be surrounded by beautiful young boys, I have it on good authority that he never did anything inappropriate with any of them (I know someone who was one of them!). And he was a very unpleasant character by all accounts.

Shostakovich seems to have been a very nice chap - always sticking his neck out to help the cause of fellow musicians or young composers.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Delicious Manager said:


> Seconding an earlier post, Lully was a total *******. He was a predatory homosexual and wasn't fussy about who he tried it on with. He once punched a heavily pregnant soprano in the stomach to make her miscarry and not miss performances of one of his operas. Nice!


Oh well, he got his come-uppance with a nasty and self-inflicted death.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> Seconding an earlier post, Lully was a total *******. He was a predatory homosexual and wasn't fussy about who he tried it on with. He once punched a heavily pregnant soprano in the stomach to make her miscarry and not miss performances of one of his operas. Nice!


I'd be curious to your source for this information?

Its well known Lully was no stranger to sex scandals with both men and women, but I haven't heard the above story before. I have heard he was a real A-hole though. He was born poor and when his mother died was entrusted into the care of a monastery (or orphanage), and my feeling was he was very likely molested as a youth. It doesnt excuse his behavior, but it would help explain a lot.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Stop!*



> From what I've read, Rimsky-Korsakov wasn't always a pleasant fellow. (Of course, much like many others, a lot of that may be attributable to potato-based spirits.)


You're speaking about one of my idols...I have read many books about him...He was a cool guy and very helpful...always finishing what others left uncomplete: Mussorgsky, Borodin....What are potato-based spirits ?

Martin, a R-K fan


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Speaking about B.B.*

The only opera I like by him is Death in Venice (Thomas Mann) his very last opera... a story of a child admired by an older gay man...Thomas Mann was gay as well...

_This article is about Thomas Mann's novella. For other uses, see Death in Venice (disambiguation).
Death in Venice

Author Thomas Mann 
Country Germany 
Language German 
Genre(s) Novella 
Publisher S. Fischer Verlag 
Publication date 1912 (1924 translated to English) 
Media type Print (Hardback & Paperback) 
ISBN 9780060576172 
OCLC Number 71208736

The novella Death in Venice was written by the German author Thomas Mann, and was first published in 1912 as Der Tod in Venedig.[1] The plot of the work presents a writer visiting Venice who becomes ill, and in his illness confronts the duality of life: follow the path of logic and reason, or follow the path of passion. He becomes obsessed with a young boy whom he believes represents life without logic. Mann's intention was to write a treatise on the Nietzschean contrast between the god of reason, Apollo, and the god of unreason, Dionysus.

The boy in the story is based on a boy Mann met during a previous visit to Venice.

Contents [hide]_

Then molesting kids (as you have said) sounds very possible.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*P.S.*

B.B. is Benjamin Britten


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

as far as jazz people go, as mentioned before, charles mingus definitely sticks out. as far as miles davis goes...i think he was just pretty forward and frank and didn't care what anyone thought to much. and under his tutelage his spawned generations of amazing players, so he couldn't have been THAT bad  also about his drug use, he was a heavy heroin addict in the 50's and went cold turkey. but he always continued to use drugs almost until his death, his five year break from playing in the 70's was pretty much just him in a pile of cocaine and women 

as far as composers no doubt stravinsky was pretty pompous, not too knowledgeable on peoples personalities, but shostakovich was pretty out there sometimes, not horrible to people but he had strong opinions for sure


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Bye bye birdie*

This site is getting pretty odd...speaking badly about everyone...

I quit.

Martin


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## userfume (Nov 21, 2012)

This thread is fun!

Saint-Saens seemed to be a bit unpleasant.
Haydn just looks like a really nice guy!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Horrible:
Wagner
Lully

Sometimes unpleasant:
Beethoven
Stravinsky
Debussy
Chopin
Britten

Nice:
Haydn
Dvorak
Mendelssohn
Schumann


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

Prokofiev comes to mind. Apparently he was quite an arrogant kid when he was studying - he absolutely _loved_ to flaunt his musical talents in front of his classmates.

If I remember correctly, he also hit a girl/woman ( ? ) with a car while he was spending time in Europe, and then fled the scene before any charges could be put against him. I'm not sure if this story is accurate though, so don't take it too seriously!

PS. I'm a huge fan of Prokofiev's music.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Burroughs said:


> Horrible:
> Wagner
> Lully


I would put Wagner into the category of "sometimes unpleasant".


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

userfume said:


> Haydn just looks like a really nice guy!


Haydn was said to be a wonderful man in all areas of his life except his finances, where his practices ranged from extremely sharp dealing to borderline fraud.

Haydn claimed he once saw Mozart make 100 enemies over the course of a single evening, so there's that I suppose.

But the most unpleasant composer?

*CARLO GESUALDO!!*


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## IBMchicago (May 16, 2012)

I've heard Dmitri Kabalevsky had a generally pleasing personality, but I'm wondering if that also has much to do with a) working with children and b) working with children as a high profile educator under a Communist regime.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

TresPicos said:


> people with ugly political views (like Wagner)


his views were no different than many of the time.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

IBMchicago said:


> Dmitri Kabalevsky had a generally pleasing personality, but I'm wondering if that also has much to do with a) working with children and b) working with children as a high profile educator under a Communist regime


but lots of people who lived in the USSR were absolutely unaware they live under 'Communist regime'.


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## IBMchicago (May 16, 2012)

I think they were aware that they were living under a Communist government and had more restricted liberties, and whether they enjoyed the experience or would rather emmigrate is a separate matter. Either way, I'm just speculating that a high profile children's educator with the awareness that publicly known actions would have its consequences may result in him purposely maintaining a more affable nature. But, that's just pessimistic speculation. I'm sure Comrade Kabalevsky had a sterling personality.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

I might be the only one with different thoughts/views about some composers:

- Beethoven - Geniuses never like to be told what to do. They're always somehow estranged from society for they are, in fact, different. But for Beethoven i understand much of his bad-tempered mood. In my life, i get often frustrated with my work, my problems, with the path i'm taking in life and with my limits when it comes to intelligence. I curse (in secret) the others for having better lives than me. I guess everybody has felt this somehow, someday. And now, for someone that Music is his life, his everything, not being able to hear is devastating. I, if I were Beethoven, i'd cry all day and curse the world repeatedly. I'd even curse God. Nevertheless Beethoven wrote one of the most beautiful things made by Man to than God for his gift. Beethoven should be a Saint by Catholic Church.

- Lully - I've always thought that Lully was nothing but a reflection of its own time, or wasn't the regime that led to the french revolution. The decadence of the aristocracy in France is notorious and before Lully, many others should be first in line.

- Wagner - He was pretty good in what he did and he was pretty aware of that. A self-consciousness together with that genious doesn't come very often. I think i'd behave the same if i could. That would mean i'd be excellent at something. And i agree with sharik. Wagner's views on politics were no different from many other people.

As for womenizer men, i don't see that as a negative condition. Some of my friends love to flirt with women, others are real womenizer men. But as for they're character, they're are one of the best people (some are my best friends). I do not have the same behaviour, it is not in my nature, but i don't condemn anyone for being one. As long they won't force anyone (which becomes a crime)...

As for society's views on child-molesters (and here i must be carefull before this gets way out of hand), it changes through time. While Oscar Wilde was going to jail, a few years before one of the greatest writers from my country (Almeida Garrett) married a 13-year old girl. Chaplin had a special eye for teen girls. In those days, homossexuality was condemned while marrying children wasn't. Today is the other way around. Sexual preferencies may not have anything to do with one's character.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

I might be the only one with different thoughts/views about some composers:

- Beethoven - Geniuses never like to be told what to do. They're always somehow estranged from society for they are, in fact, different. But for Beethoven i understand much of his bad-tempered mood. In my life, i get often frustrated with my work, my problems, with the path i'm taking in life and with my limits when it comes to intelligence. I curse (in secret) the others for having better lives than me. I guess everybody has felt this somehow, someday. And now, for someone that Music is his life, his everything, not being able to hear is devastating. I, if I were Beethoven, i'd cry all day and curse the world repeatedly. I'd even curse God. Nevertheless Beethoven wrote one of the most beautiful things made by Man to than God for his gift. Beethoven should be a Saint by Catholic Church.

- Lully - I've always thought that Lully was nothing but a reflection of its own time, or wasn't the regime that led to the french revolution. The decadence of the aristocracy in France is notorious and before Lully, many others should be first in line.

- Wagner - He was pretty good in what he did and he was pretty aware of that. A self-consciousness together with that genious doesn't come very often. I think i'd behave the same if i could. That would mean i'd be excellent at something. And i agree with sharik. Wagner's views on politics were no different from many other people.

As for womenizer men, i don't see that as a negative condition. Some of my friends love to flirt with women, others are real womenizer men. But as for they're character, they're are one of the best people (some are my best friends). I do not have the same behaviour, it is not in my nature, but i don't condemn anyone for being one. As long they won't force anyone (which becomes a crime)...

As for society's views on child-molesters (and here i must be carefull before this gets way out of hand), it changes through time. While Oscar Wilde was going to jail, a few years before one of the greatest writers from my country (Almeida Garrett) married a 13-year old girl. Chaplin had a special eye for teen girls. In those days, homossexuality was condemned while marrying children wasn't. Today is the other way around. Sexual preferencies may not have anything to do with one's character.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Delicious Manager said:


> Shostakovich seems to have been a very nice chap - always sticking his neck out to help the cause of fellow musicians or young composers.


I can imagine his inspiration. 



Rondo said:


> From what I've read, Rimsky-Korsakov wasn't always a pleasant fellow. (Of course, much like many others, a lot of that may be attributable to potato-based spirits.)


I've not heard of that. He also wasn't an alcoholic. However, Balakirev was a bit of a bully, and could be rather mean.

Sir Malcolm Arnold was said to be very ill-tempered, depressed, also an alcoholic.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Brahms comes to mind first.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> Seconding an earlier post, Lully was a total *******. He was a predatory homosexual and wasn't fussy about who he tried it on with. He once punched a heavily pregnant soprano in the stomach to make her miscarry and not miss performances of one of his operas. Nice!
> 
> I know several people who knew Britten well. Although he loved to be surrounded by beautiful young boys, I have it on good authority that he never did anything inappropriate with any of them (I know someone who was one of them!). And he was a very unpleasant character by all accounts.
> 
> Shostakovich seems to have been a very nice chap - always sticking his neck out to help the cause of fellow musicians or young composers.


Well remember he had his full-time boyfriend the tenor Peter Peers.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Britten blew hot and cold - he could be unfailingly generous to anyone who pleased him or who he admired but could also undoubtedly be a manipulative drama queen at other times and who so jealously guarded his inner circle at Aldeburgh and Snape that he would dump anyone at a moment's notice if they incurred his displeasure - i.e. the tenor Robert Tear who had the temerity to turn down a role in Owen Wingrave written with him in mind in order to develop the role of Dov in Tippett's Knot Garden. I'm also reminded of another unpleasant little scenario when Decca producer John Culshaw presented BB with a rehearsal recording of War requiem on his 50th birthday along with his best wishes - rather than being touched BB instead felt outraged by what he deemed to be an 'unauthorised intrusion' and thought it necessary to prissily shoot Culshaw down in flames (I gather in front of performers and studio technicians - surely a more private admonition could have been sufficient?).


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

Lukecash12 said:


> I really would take the free mason idea with a 10 pound block of salt


So you'll take it extremely seriously?


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