# Composers You Couldn't Care Less About



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Oh dear, so many. Let's start with Bruckner and Glazunov. One is ponderous and boring while the other doesn't even inspire hatred—just plain indifference.

Bring it on.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bruckner, Nielsen, Vivaldi, Scarlatti, Schumann, Debussy, Liszt and most Schubert (although I love his last String Quartet No. 15 in G). Not a complete Liszt. Let me ruminate on it some more...

Update: I must add Scriabin. I'd rather be water-boarded.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

A lot of Liszt, Carter, Messiaen, Verdi, and all that I've heard of Schoenberg except Verklarte Nacht. I'm coming around on Bruckner, Rachmaninov, and Holst. I'll probably always hate Cage.


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Well, if I care enough about them to mention them in this thread...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Composers I don't care much about? Well, there's

Casimiro Alcorta (1840–1913)
Anđelka Bego-Šimunić (born 1941)
Maurizio Cazzati (1616–1678)
Albert Christoph Dies (1755–1822)
Gustav Ernesaks (1908–1993)

Which gets me through "E". But don't worry, there are a lot more!


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

bz3 said:


> A...all that I've heard of Schoenberg except Verklarte Nacht.


How about now? 






bz3 said:


> I'll probably always hate Cage.


How about now?


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

Most of the famous Romantic opera composers that didn't do much else. Rossini can stay, Bizet sure. Verdi hell yes, Wagner duh. I'll even allow Bellini. Once you've gotten to Donizetti, you've lost me. Puccini, meh. Offenbach? Whatever. Meyerbeer? Who?

Glazunov is just a humorous name because I find his music completely redundant and irrelevant, not worth dislike, but it's funny to pretend to dislike him just because he has a couple of oddball lovers here.

Good thread for me, since I don't really dislike a lot of classical music. I just don't see the point in listening to a lot of it either.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Schnittke, Nielsen, Bax, Meyerbeer etc. I kinda do care about the Italian opera composers of C19, cos when I hear I them I feel tired and sad


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

Schoenberg- nothing he wrote that I've heard has ever grabbed me. 
Stockhausen- just no. 
Cage- I wish I could write literally nothing and then charge royalties out the wazoo when someone wants to "perform" it. 
Baroque composers- not that I don't like baroque music, but when I go to baroque chamber concerts everything sounds exactly the same.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

Harold in Columbia said:


> How about now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Schoenberg is somewhat enjoyable but ponderous and I don't care for the vocals. I've no doubt that I have no real basis to rail against Schoenberg, it's just that the random pieces I've heard throughout the years are not to my liking. Verklarte Nacht and some of his solo piano music I can abide. I will work on it.

The Cage sounds like a cut-rate Beethoven written for TV ads. I'm done with the guy.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Harold in Columbia said:


> Well, if I care enough about them to mention them in this thread...


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

Aha, so this would be the place where I get to say Mozart? It is? Excellent!

Mozart.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I couldn't care less about only the composers I haven't heard of. 

Well, actually there's probably a few of those I might care about. I just don't know it yet.

There are composers I don't enjoy, but that's not carved in stone.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Nielsen is brilliant! You people need to clean the wax out of your ears! But please keep on mentioning composers you don't care for, because I might discover more treasures!


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Lili Boulanger sorry


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Composers I don't care much about? Well, there's
> 
> Casimiro Alcorta (1840-1913)
> Anđelka Bego-Šimunić (born 1941)
> ...


Would you care more about them if any of these had different birth/death dates?


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

What is with the Meyerbeer hate? Is it just a fashion to despise his work? I'd be interested to know why his name often pops up in threads like this.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

These threads are very revealing regarding people's tastes. It becomes very amusing to read comments on other threads keeping in mind people's preferences


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I haven't found one yet, as I always find at least something to like.
I like John Cage for one piece. I couldn't care less for most of the music I've heard by Cage.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Harold in Columbia said:


> Well, if I care enough about them to mention them in this thread...


Is it that the Poster X cares about Composer Y, or is it that they care about mentioning them and more importantly being seen to mention them?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Gordontrek said:


> Cage- I wish I could write literally nothing and then charge royalties out the wazoo when someone wants to "perform" it.


*sigh* Doesn't anyone know that Cage wrote a lot more music other than 4'33"?

How much money did Cage make anyway? It's not like he was a billionaire producer or something.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

violadude said:


> *sigh* Doesn't anyone know that Cage wrote a lot more music other than 4'33"?
> 
> How much money did Cage make anyway? It's not like he was a billionaire producer or something.


Didn't he marry Kim Kardashian at some point?


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

hpowders said:


> ...most Schubert (although I love his last String Quartet No. 15 in G)..


A ***** in your armour at last, hp?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm not much struck on Benjamin Britten. 
I'm being unfair to him, because I don't know a lot of his pieces - mainly the ones I was made to play at Junior Orchestra.
But it's hard to psych oneself up to listen to a composer one isn't much struck on.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> I'm not much struck on Benjamin Britten.
> I'm being unfair to him, because I don't know a lot of his pieces - mainly the ones I was made to play at Junior Orchestra.
> But it's hard to psych oneself up to listen to a composer one isn't much struck on.


Have you tried his Ceremony of Carols. That might be the piece to introduce you to BB.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MagneticGhost said:


> *Have you tried his Ceremony of Carols*. That might be the piece to introduce you to BB.


Um - thanks, yes, I have...
(PS I 'quite like' some of the tunes e.g. There is no Rose of Swich Vertu, but not - usually - the mannered way they tend to get sung.)


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Anyway...

Composers I couldn't care less about? hmm...Ya know, as I've said before, almost every composer that anyone cares about has written something invaluable to me. I kinda don't care much about most early-mid Romantic Era opera composers (Rossini, Meyerbeer, Donezetti etc, Bizet is pretty great though) But then again I haven't really listened to much by them at all. 

Balakriev doesn't really interest me that much...Cui almost doesn't interest me but I kinda like his 25 preludes. 

Meh, I'll throw in a 4th (5th? 3rd?) vote for Glazunov. Haven't heard much by him that really catches my interests.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Morimur said:


> Didn't he marry Kim Kardashian at some point?


Unless Kim Kardashian secretly lives a double life as Ken Kardashian....probably not.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> Um - thanks, yes, I have...


:tiphat:
Fair enough.


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm being unfair to Mozart: I have his string quintets and a few symphonies. Still, I'm sure he'll cope.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Wood said:


> What is with the Meyerbeer hate? Is it just a fashion to despise his work? I'd be interested to know why his name often pops up in threads like this.


'Fashion' makes certain people sound way cooler than they probably are, but you're right. The misguided or affected 'Meyerbeer hate'* is what you have to say to get credibility around here, and because he's a composer hardly anyone listens to (and only then in unidiomatic modern performances) they are unlikely to be called out. Still, Glazunov seems to be catching up as the composer the highbrows of this forum must be seen to look down on. On the basis of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend', Alexander G is probably worth investigating. (I don't literally mean the forum highbrows are my enemies of course- but I do have noticeably different tastes from them...)

*If they can listen to both volumes of Marston's 'Meyerbeer on Record' and still think the music isn't for them, fair enough. They will have heard bleeding chunks of his operas sung as well as they ever will be, and if the 'haters' are still unmoved, I can't help them!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Wood said:


> What is with the Meyerbeer hate? Is it just a fashion to despise his work? I'd be interested to know why his name often pops up in threads like this.


This thread isn't about composers you hate, it's about composers you couldn't care less about. To be fair though, I think a lot of people ARE confusing the two...

I named Meyerbeer in my answer because I haven't heard much of his music and what I have heard hasn't really struck me in any way, hence, couldn't care less.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

dogen said:


> I'm being unfair to Mozart: I have his string quintets and a few symphonies. Still, I'm sure he'll cope.


Mozart is a good example of a composer I, at one time, couldn't care less about based solely on my reaction to one or two works. I've eventually come around to his late works. Delius is another.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

violadude said:


> This thread isn't about composers you hate, it's about composers you couldn't care less about. To be fair though, I think a lot of people ARE confusing the two...
> 
> I named Meyerbeer in my answer because I haven't heard much of his music and* what I have heard hasn't really struck me in any way, hence, couldn't care less.*


Postwar recordings, by any chance?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Figleaf said:


> Postwar recordings, by any chance?


I don't remember. Give me something you think is worthy.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

violadude said:


> I don't remember. Give me something you think is worthy.


Male voices or female? And if you only like orchestral/instrumental, then I will have to 'phone a friend', as they say.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Figleaf said:


> Male voices or female? And if you only like orchestral/instrumental, then I will have to 'phone a friend', as they say.


Anything...................


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Great! We can start with a bit of drama: the famous Raoul-Valentine duet from Les Huguenots. This recording is fairly well known because it's unusually complete for its time (1909), being recorded on three sides (I wonder why they didn't use the fourth?) instead of cut and/or rushed to fit on to one or two. It's a really vivid, exciting performance, even though the soprano is nothing special and the marvellous tenor is in slightly hoarse voice:






Raoul's famous aria 'Plus blanche' was a famous tenor showpiece back when there were singers who had the technique to make such difficult music sound effortless. Some even embellished it (e.g. Jadlowker in the first link) as would gave been done in Meyerbeer's own time.














The music of Meyerbeer is for me really inextricably associated with the virtuoso singers we can hear on early recordings. It's not just their technique, it's their charisma and the stylistic authority of their performances. Imagine these pieces sung effortfully by a modern singer struggling to just hit all the notes, and with a generic ugly modern 'operatic' voice and all the personality beaten out of him by metronomic conductors. It would suck, and people would say 'I don't understand what's so special about Meyerbeer'. And without the singer as the equal partner which nineteenth century composers expected him or her to be (a heretical concept now!) this music barely exists. So we can listen to some of the undisputed greats and hear how, in their hands at least, Meyerbeer's music is great music.

Pol Plançon, the greatest bass I've ever heard, shows us how wonderfully Meyerbeer wrote for the voice:













 (To be fair, Samuel Ramey has sung the part of Bertram marvellously in modern times; we could do with more like him.)

The miracle that was Francesco Tamagno:






His 'Pour Berthe' seems to have vanished from YT, so here's Viñas instead, another supernaturally amazing voice:






I could post literally hundreds of these links, but the above will do as the first examples of stupendously performed Meyerbeer excerpts that sprang to mind. Other historic vocal buffs will have different favourites, and non vocal buffs will perhaps continue to wonder what was so special about Meyerbeer. Hopefully a more educated enthusiast than I am will be able to explain in a properly musically literate way the appeal and importance of Meyerbeer's French operas, as well as merely raving about singers who were the contemporaries of our great great great grandparents!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ I'll go along with this, Figleaf

Meyerbeer flourishes with singing of the French tradition - now sadly largely disappeared - and we are luck that we have many recordings that show us what we are missing.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Wealthy hacks who use their money to support their delusion that they are real composers.

For example:

Richard Nanes
J. William Middendorf


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Here is a weird one: as a great fan of renaissance keyboard music(or early baroque) I have not been able to warm up to Sweelinck or Frescobaldi nearly as much as even the lesser English composers, Farnaby or Phillips. Give me Bull or Byrd any day. 

But I don't wish for this to remain the case of i can help it. Maybe I will find the right mood and recordings.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Elgar
Britten
Nielsen
Franck
Saint-Saens

(Sticking with people who are at least B-listers...of course I don't care much about Spohr or Medtner and the like either.)


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

nathanb said:


> Most of the famous Romantic opera composers that didn't do much else. Rossini can stay, Bizet sure. Verdi hell yes, Wagner duh. I'll even allow Bellini. Once you've gotten to Donizetti, you've lost me. Puccini, meh. Offenbach? Whatever. Meyerbeer? Who?
> 
> Glazunov is just a humorous name because I find his music *completely redundant and irrelevant*, not worth dislike, but it's funny to pretend to dislike him just because he has a couple of oddball lovers here.
> 
> Good thread for me, since I don't really dislike a lot of classical music. I just don't see the point in listening to a lot of it either.


Completely redundant and irrelevant??? 
Quite hyperbolic and rather biased don't you think?

Well, to each his/her own.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

clavichorder said:


> Here is a weird one: as a great fan of renaissance keyboard music(or early baroque) I have not been able to warm up to Sweelinck or Frescobaldi nearly as much as even the lesser English composers, Farnaby or Phillips. Give me Bull or Byrd any day.
> 
> But I don't wish for this to remain the case of i can help it. Maybe I will find the right mood and recordings.


I fell in love with Sweelinck's Variations on "Mein junges Leben hat ein End" based on this synthesizer version from the late 60s / early 70s. WARNING! May sicken purists.

I admit I haven't heard much else of his works.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

bz3 said:


> The Schoenberg is somewhat enjoyable but ponderous and I don't care for the vocals. I've no doubt that I have no real basis to rail against Schoenberg, it's just that the random pieces I've heard throughout the years are not to my liking. Verklarte Nacht and some of his solo piano music I can abide. I will work on it.
> 
> The Cage sounds like a cut-rate Beethoven written for TV ads. I'm done with the guy.


Actually the Cage sounds more like Debussy with every second note deleted and then the whole thing drowned in reverb.

Still, it's innocuous enough..... wallpaper!

:devil:


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Orfeo said:


> Completely redundant and irrelevant???
> Quite hyperbolic and rather biased don't you think?
> 
> Well, to each his/her own.


Last year I purchased the Serebrier - Glazunov : Complete Symphonies & Concertos and I can't say any of it has grabbed me yet. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's irrelevant. Nothing is irrelevant if someone in the universe likes it. But while the recording is beautiful there's something about this rah-rah celebratory 19th century music that seldom speaks to me. I need to really dig in and listen to what the symphonies are doing formally I suppose, rather than just the surface glitter.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

When one says, "I don't like Mozart," one usually manifests that one has grown beyond the stage of being a child. When one says, "I don't like Schoenberg," this has three possible meanings 1) one does not understand (cannot comprehend and discern the romantic voice of Schoenberg) 2) one understands but does not like what they hear or 3) one is still a child.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I'll throw in The Mighty Handful, or The Five, or whatever they're most commonly known as...that group of Russian Romantics who were aligned in writing with Russian aesthetics in mind,

- Balakirev
- Rimsky-Korsakov
- Mussorgsky
- Cui
- Borodin

None of these men wrote anything that really grabs me. Though I do like Pictures from an Exhibition, but not enough to go out of my way and put it on.


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

Orfeo said:


> Completely redundant and irrelevant???
> Quite hyperbolic and rather biased don't you think?
> 
> Well, to each his/her own.


Read the whole sentence - you have played right into my hands


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Weston said:


> Last year I purchased the Serebrier - Glazunov : Complete Symphonies & Concertos and I can't say any of it has grabbed me yet. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's irrelevant. Nothing is irrelevant if someone in the universe likes it. But while the recording is beautiful there's something about this *rah-rah celebratory 19th century* *music* that seldom speaks to me. I need to really dig in and listen to what the symphonies are doing formally I suppose, rather than just the surface glitter.


Glazunov's music goes way beyond the *rah-rah celebratory 19th century music. *Emotionally, his music is more wide-ranging than that. And if you sample closely his Fourth Symphony, his Sixth, his Eighth (a tense, dramatic, solemn response to the upheavals Russia underwent in 1905 and thereafter), you'll see that much of the music had depth and profundity: the slow movements of the Second and Seventh Symphonies are especially beautifully written. Many of his middle to late works have serious, even dark overtones (particularly those written in the 1910s like his Second Piano Concerto or his Two-Piece Improvisations for piano). His late quartets shows the composer at his most nostalgic. And while his Theme et Variations for piano shows the composer at among his most inventiveness, his Sonatas are among the pinnacles of his overall musical art.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

This one takes the cake: Eric Whitacre

I shouldn't even know that name . . . and I am so sorry that I do.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

nathanb said:


> Read the whole sentence - you have played right into my hands


Respectfully, I don't think so. But I digress.
:tiphat:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Vivaldi is about it for me.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I couldn't care less about Wagner, but that's the human Wagner, not the music.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> 'Fashion' makes certain people sound way cooler than they probably are, but you're right. The misguided or affected 'Meyerbeer hate'* is what you have to say to get credibility around here, and because he's a composer hardly anyone listens to (and only then in unidiomatic modern performances) they are unlikely to be called out. Still, Glazunov seems to be catching up as the composer the highbrows of this forum must be seen to look down on. On the basis of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend', Alexander G is probably worth investigating. (I don't literally mean the forum highbrows are my enemies of course- but I do have noticeably different tastes from them...)
> 
> *If they can listen to both volumes of Marston's 'Meyerbeer on Record' and still think the music isn't for them, fair enough. They will have heard bleeding chunks of his operas sung as well as they ever will be, and if the 'haters' are still unmoved, I can't help them!


Yes, I do think you're right. It is very unlikely that many of those who dislike Meyerbeer have heard much of his output. Given his reputation on here, I was expecting sub-Gilbert & Sullivan tosh when I first listened to him. Instead, it seems as good as anything in its era.

If you can interest ViolaDude, that will be some very successful advocacy Mrs. Figleaf.

Glazunov is very good, but I'm afraid you won't find any operas, indeed hardly any vocal music at all.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

John Cage, Arnold Schoenberg (and his disciples!), Stockhausen, some of the 2nd rate Scandinavian composers (excluding Grieg, Berwald and Nielsen), and those Baroque composers that can't reach the awesomeness of J.S.Bach, Vivaldi, Handel and Telemann!

Are you surprised?!

Now I should find a bunker before that incoming nuclear missile annihilates me!


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I'll throw in The Mighty Handful, or The Five, or whatever they're most commonly known as...that group of Russian Romantics who were aligned in writing with Russian aesthetics in mind,
> 
> - Balakirev
> - Rimsky-Korsakov
> ...


That's truly heresy!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

I prefer Glazunov to Tchaikovsky, am I weird?  

Maybe I should check out those Tchaikovsky operas...


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Arsakes said:


> those Baroque composers that can't reach the awesomeness of J.S.Bach, Vivaldi, Handel and Telemann!


And Rameau! Forgetting about Rameau is truly heretical.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Wood said:


> Yes, I do think you're right. It is very unlikely that many of those who dislike Meyerbeer have heard much of his output. Given his reputation on here, I was expecting sub-Gilbert & Sullivan tosh when I first listened to him. Instead, it seems as good as anything in its era.
> 
> If you can interest ViolaDude, that will be some very successful advocacy Mrs. Figleaf.
> 
> Glazunov is very good, but I'm afraid you won't find any operas, indeed hardly any vocal music at all.


Actually, his vocal works are fairly sizeable. He has close to three dozen songs and romances, three cantatas, Incidental scores "King of the Jews" & "Masquerade", and completion of act three of "Prince Igor" to his credit (not forgetting the brilliant overture he had written for the opera). 
-->http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ers&qid=1456769005&ref_=sr_1_6&s=music&sr=1-6


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Arsakes said:


> That's truly heresy!


Lol don't get me wrong, I like Tchaikovsky, and I like the generations of Russians and Soviets that came afterward, but these guys just miss the mark.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> Lol don't get me wrong, I like Tchaikovsky, and I like the generations of Russians and Soviets that came afterward, but these guys just miss the mark.


Two words: Boris Godunov.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Chronochromie said:


> Two words: Boris Godunov.


You know what, thanks for reminding be about that one. I don't listen to much opera, but Boris Godunov was pretty cool. Maybe I"ll re-evaluate my stance on Mussorgsky, but I can't say the same for the other fingers on the hand


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Morimur said:


> This one takes the cake: Eric Whitacre
> 
> I shouldn't even know that name . . . and I am so sorry that I do.


My two cents: various friends have recommended his music to me, and I've listened to a few pieces...and I don't know what's a good adjective to describe him...tacky? Sure.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Morimur said:


> This one takes the cake: Eric Whitacre
> 
> I shouldn't even know that name . . . and I am so sorry that I do.


Finally something many of us can agree on! Whitacre and all those naive choral students enamored with his stacks of 2nds in vocal harmony...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

From what I read, Brahms was a sarcastic old coot. I wouldn't include him on MY friends' list. I'd probably put him on "ignore".

But that wouldn't interfere with my enjoying his Handel Variations, Piano Trio No. 1 and two glorious String Sextets.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> Great! We can start with a bit of drama: the famous Raoul-Valentine duet from Les Huguenots. This recording is fairly well known because it's unusually complete for its time (1909), being recorded on three sides (I wonder why they didn't use the fourth?) instead of cut and/or rushed to fit on to one or two. It's a really vivid, exciting performance, even though the soprano is nothing special and the marvellous tenor is in slightly hoarse voice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post. I have apathy rather than antipathy towards Meyerbeer. And when I listen to the examples above I can hear a lot of vocal artistry, but not much music. I guess that style is just not my cup of tea


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

violadude said:


> *sigh* Doesn't anyone know that Cage wrote a lot more music other than 4'33"?
> 
> How much money did Cage make anyway? It's not like he was a billionaire producer or something.


So? Out of most of the things he wrote that I've heard I'd rather hear nothing anyway.

Why does it matter how much you make? If you feel like you have to write nothing and then pass it off as something "novel" and "unique" then maybe..... I better shut up.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Bruckner, Nielsen, Vivaldi, Scarlatti, Schumann, Debussy, Liszt and most Schubert (although I love his last String Quartet No. 15 in G). Not a complete Liszt. Let me ruminate on it some more...
> 
> Update: I must add Scriabin. I'd rather be water-boarded.


Great post straight to the point, pulls no punches


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I would offer a few suggestions but If I couldn't care less, then I suppose the next question is Why bother?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, I already mentioned Gustav Ernesaks, so going on from there:

Friedrich Funcke (1642-1699)
José Maurício Nunes Garcia (1767-1830)
Albert Huybrechts (1899-1938)
Volodymyr Ivasiuk (1949-1979)
Adam Jarzębski (c. 1590-c. 1648)

More to come!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

KenOC is giving a marvelously literal reading of this thread.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Of these all the responses in this thread, except about those composers I never heard or heard of, there is not a single one to whom I am indifferent.
Some of the choices here are incomprehensible. Who can "care less" about Mozart? Or Boris Godunov (the opera, not the czar)? I love it all. So call me a doormat.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I can't think of any that I don't care about--there are some composers I don't know anything about, but it's not because I don't care.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

clavichorder said:


> KenOC is giving a marvelously literal reading of this thread.


He is reliable. I wonder who K, L, M, N and O will be?


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> I'll throw in The Mighty Handful, or The Five, or whatever they're most commonly known as...that group of Russian Romantics who were aligned in writing with Russian aesthetics in mind,
> 
> - Balakirev
> - Rimsky-Korsakov
> ...


Look I get the first 4 but Borodin's music is incredible especially considering composing was just a hobby for him. Have you heard his string quartets or his piano quintet even his 2cd symphony?

For the record I like Mussorgsky as well and some Rimsky but not much.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I couldn't care less about Wagner, but that's the human Wagner, not the music.


I don't understand this at all, he was such a great guy... :devil:


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Fugue Meister said:


> Look I get the first 4 but Borodin's music is incredible especially considering composing was just a hobby for him. Have you heard his string quartets or his piano quintet even his 2cd symphony?
> 
> For the record I like Mussorgsky as well and some Rimsky but not much.


I've heard Borodin's 2nd a long time ago, I don't remember it. I'll check it out again, and also give the chamber music a chance


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> I've heard Borodin's 2nd a long time ago, I don't remember it. I'll check it out again, and also give the chamber music a chance


Hey, I know his 2cd is more popular but I like his 1st in A, better.


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

For me, it's "In the Steppes of Central Asia" that's going to get Borodino time off from Purgatory.

From Rimsky-Korsakov, I've heard just enough - the beginning of "Skazka," the beginning of _Kitzeh_ - to know that I need to hear more, and that people who think he's nothing more than _Scheherazade_ have got the wrong idea entirely.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Hummel. And Verdi, come to think of it. And Bruno-Heinz Jaja.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't, in the main, care much for Mendelssohn. I like the Fiddle Concerto, the Symphonies 3-5, 5 mainly for the Dresden Amen quote, and the Octet is wonderful. I've tried so hard. I have recordings of just about everything he wrote but much of it leaves me cold. Oh, then there's the Hebrides and Fair Melusina Overtures, Ruy Blas, all pretty special. And there are moments in St Paul.
I struggle with Schoenberg as well. The early stuff is too chromatic, like a 3 course meal of whipped cream, and the later stuff is just too cerebral for me. I love Webern, I love Berg but there's something about Schoenberg which grates on me.
One of my best friends thinks the world of Schoenberg. He was invited to Canada to give a talk at a Schoenberg conference. He has photos of himself and Schoenberg's children. My friend Hates Bruckner. Bruckner is, along with Bach, Brahms and Beethoven my favourite composer.
Just shows to go you...


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

John Luther Adams. Become Ocean...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> John Luther Adams. Become Ocean...


If you actively avoid something, can you still say you "don't care about it"? Because it seems to me that you do, in an odd way.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Fugue Meister said:


> Look I get the first 4 but Borodin's music is incredible especially considering composing was just a hobby for him. Have you heard his string quartets or his piano quintet even his 2cd symphony?
> 
> For the record I like Mussorgsky as well and some Rimsky but not much.


Lol Mussorgsky is miles ahead of Borodin kthxbai.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I was afraid someone was going to call me on that. You are right, I have spent enough time with the work to decide I don't like it, and posted here for something to post about. Not liking something and taking the time to say you dont and why, is not exactly an act of indifference, though at this point I don't care so much and am more dismissive of it than actively 'fussed up'.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> I was afraid someone was going to call me on that. You are right, I have spent enough time with the work to decide I don't like it...


Heh-heh, I call him "Lex Luthor" Adams so as not to confuse him with, you know, the other one. Whose music I actually like. :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Early/Mid John Coolidge Adams > John Luther Adams > Recent John Coolidge Adams


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## Autocrat (Nov 14, 2014)

I have no truck with the following "major" composers, in no particular order:

Byrd
Purcell
Vivaldi
Handel
Haydn
Rossini
Brahms
Schumann
Wagner
J. Strauss. All of them. 
Lehar 
Verdi
Donizetti
Offenbach
Debussy
Satie
Grainger
Ives
Berlioz
Chopin
Palestrina
Poulenc
Borodin
Rimsky-Korsakov
Lyadov


I have left off living composers, because their numbers are vast and in any case they still have an opportunity to pique my interest.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

If I dislike a composer I do care about them since I consider it worth having an opinion about them. Therefore I say Jennifer Higdon a composer that is often mentioned on this forum that I seldom hear and have no intention currently to listen to.

Another one is William Schuman I feel the same about him.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Autocrat said:


> I have no truck with the following "major" composers, in no particular order:
> 
> Brahms


Of course this is just the opinion board, and I don't have any strong feelings for most of your list [I'll say Chopin is a favorite but I understand he's not for everyone], but I will suggest you give Brahms another chance. If you haven't listened to his chamber music, I recommend checking it out. Especially his Piano Quartet in C minor.

Then again, if you have heard his chamber works, then oh well, disregard this post


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Cosmos said:


> You know what, thanks for reminding be about that one. I don't listen to much opera, but Boris Godunov was pretty cool. Maybe I"ll re-evaluate my stance on Mussorgsky, but I can't say the same for the other fingers on the hand


Try the "Songs and Dances of Death" song cycle, also the opera "Khovanschina."


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Cosmos said:


> I'll throw in The Mighty Handful, or The Five, or whatever they're most commonly known as...that group of Russian Romantics who were aligned in writing with Russian aesthetics in mind,
> 
> - Balakirev
> - Rimsky-Korsakov
> ...


My feelings exactly. One more "Ballet of Unhatched Chicks" on the radio and I think I've had it.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Lol Mussorgsky is miles ahead of Borodin kthxbai.


Oh I completely agree but I have such a fondness for Borodin's 1st string quartet and what started this whole tangent was Cosmos dismissing Borodin's music in the first place (not that Cosmos hasn't seen the error of his/her way :devil: ).

However no argument from me here Mussorgsky was the most talented of the mighty five.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Wow... I really shouldn't have read this thread...










Well you all know what _I _couldn't care less about... your indifference. :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

We seem to be at "K".

Božidar Kantušer (1921-1999)
Louis James Alfred Lefébure-Wély (1817-1869)
Jean-Joseph Cassanéa de Mondonville (1711-1772)
Anthoni van Noordt (c. 1619-1675)
Frederick Ouseley (1825-1889)

And that's thread duty for the night. Can't get excited about these composers either way. Next time, "P"and onward!


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

violadude said:


> This thread isn't about composers you hate, it's about composers you couldn't care less about. To be fair though, I think a lot of people ARE confusing the two...


^^^

And thus, let me nominate *Rachmaninov*, who I have never since sought out since first hearing his major works, and whatever pieces play on the radio from hour-to-hour. I don't think I can even pinpoint why I never got hooked on him.



Huilunsoittaja said:


> Wow... I really shouldn't have read this thread...
> 
> ....[/IMG]
> 
> Well you all know what _I _couldn't care less about... your indifference. :tiphat:


Well, you really could have just said nothing; the annoyance was obvious.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Autocrat said:


> I have no truck with the following "major" composers, in no particular order:
> 
> Byrd
> Purcell
> ...


That's one big list. I only offered a single name; now I feel a little undernourished.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Autocrat said:


> I have no truck with the following "major" composers, in no particular order:
> 
> Byrd
> Purcell
> ...


Sacre blue, who is left? Carter, Cage, Feldmann, Offenbach, Fanny Mendelssohn?


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Cosmos said:


> I've heard Borodin's 2nd a long time ago, I don't remember it. I'll check it out again, and also give the chamber music a chance


Try to get hold of Kurt Sanderling's Borodin 2. It might change your mind...


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Avey said:


> Well, you really could have just said nothing; the annoyance was obvious.


I know right? Stay quiet about my grief (wasn't quite annoyance)? There was only one comment that really made me mad, but it's complicated to object to it here.

It's just... This thread kinda explains in a nutshell why I've felt particularly un-nourished by the TC community. When I say I want to come to this site to talk about Russians, it's not just to teach/advocate, but to meet people who can teach ME more... But hardly any of you care to know enough. And that's why I float further and further away from this site... I've found THAT community elsewhere. I've said this elsewhere before... It's really tough to be a Russian musicologist in the US right now... The community is almost non-existent.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I know right? Stay quiet about my grief (wasn't quite annoyance)? There was only one comment that really made me mad, but it's complicated to object to it here.
> 
> It's just... This thread kinda explains in a nutshell why I've felt particularly un-nourished by the TC community. When I say I want to come to this site to talk about Russians, it's not just to teach/advocate, but to meet people who can teach ME more... But hardly any of you care to know enough. And that's why I float further and further away from this site... I've found THAT community elsewhere. I've said this elsewhere before... It's really tough to be a Russian musicologist in the US right now... The community is almost non-existent.


I'm certainly sorry this has happened. I confess that I would not be able to teach you more. It sounds like you have a lot to offer. My advice is not to waste your life in places that restrict your growth.


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## kartikeys (Mar 16, 2013)

Some of that modern music without melody, or music.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I still can't bring myself to care about how Gesualdo is doing, wherever he might be.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Klassic said:


> My advice is not to waste your life in places that restrict your growth.


I believe that, in her role as moderator, H is obligated to waste her life here.

_Huis clos_! No exit!


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I know right? Stay quiet about my grief (wasn't quite annoyance)? There was only one comment that really made me mad, but it's complicated to object to it here.
> 
> It's just... This thread kinda explains in a nutshell why I've felt particularly un-nourished by the TC community. When I say I want to come to this site to talk about Russians, it's not just to teach/advocate, but to meet people who can teach ME more... But hardly any of you care to know enough. And that's why I float further and further away from this site... I've found THAT community elsewhere. I've said this elsewhere before... It's really tough to be a Russian musicologist in the US right now... The community is almost non-existent.


What does saying this achieve?

I think that's awesome that you love Russian music (and I envy your training speciality if you are a musicologist of the Russian variety) but surely you aren't suggesting you a lone voice in the wilderness, there are others who are just as fond of the music of Russia as you and plenty of threads where meaningful conversations can be had, am I wrong? Even if you think you know better, you're a moderator, what kind of example does this set by telling you aren't being "nourished" here and you are getting what you need elsewhere, is that not a conflict of interest? I must say it's disappointing and rather irksome.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Fugue Meister said:


> What does saying this achieve?
> 
> I think that's awesome that you love Russian music (and I envy your training speciality if you are a musicologist of the Russian variety) but surely you aren't suggesting you a lone voice in the wilderness, there are others who are just as fond of the music of Russia as you and plenty of threads where meaningful conversations can be had, am I wrong? Even if you think you know better, you're a moderator, what kind of example does this set by telling you aren't being "nourished" here and you are getting what you need elsewhere, is that not a conflict of interest? I must say it's disappointing and rather irksome.


I'm not so sure these are always matters of logic *Fugue Meister*. Like music, there is a valid language of the heart.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Klassic said:


> I'm not so sure these are always matters of logic *Fugue Meister*. Like music, there is a valid language of the heart.


I agree but there is such a thing as tact and this is someone who is supposed to "moderate" us, such a statement seems to me almost tantamount of dissent.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Fugue Meister said:


> What does saying this achieve?
> 
> I think that's awesome that you love Russian music (and I envy your training speciality if you are a musicologist of the Russian variety) but surely you aren't suggesting you a lone voice in the wilderness, there are others who are just as fond of the music of Russia as you and plenty of threads where meaningful conversations can be had, am I wrong? Even if you think you know better, you're a moderator, what kind of example does this set by telling you aren't being "nourished" here and you are getting what you need elsewhere, is that not a conflict of interest? I must say it's disappointing and rather irksome.


You've been here since 2014. I've been here since 2010. Back then, there were other Russian fans who have since moved on. And new Russian fans have appeared! But the proportion of people who want to _talk _about this stuff in proportion to people who want to talk about modern music, French music, German music, etc etc is quite poor. I'm not implying any particular _other _forum, mind you. I'm advocating a different kind of engagement online, _non-competing_ social sources, that have made the difference for me. I don't use any other forums other than this site.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> You've been here since 2014. I've been here since 2010. Back then, there were other Russian fans who have since moved on. And new Russian fans have appeared! But the proportion of people who want to _talk _about this stuff in proportion to people who want to talk about modern music, French music, German music, etc etc is quite poor. I'm not implying any particular _other _forum, mind you. I'm advocating a different kind of engagement online, _non-competing_ social sources, that have made the difference for me. I don't use any other forums other than this site.


Fair enough, thanks for the clarification that your not conflicting your interests and your seniority over me here at TC is noted. There may have been departure of Russian music fans but I can assure you some of those vacancies have been filled by others who are true proponents of Russian music and it's tradition, you may certainly count me amongst those newer members.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I know right? Stay quiet about my grief (wasn't quite annoyance)? There was only one comment that really made me mad, but it's complicated to object to it here.
> 
> It's just... This thread kinda explains in a nutshell why I've felt particularly un-nourished by the TC community. When I say I want to come to this site to talk about Russians, it's not just to teach/advocate, but to meet people who can teach ME more... But hardly any of you care to know enough. And that's why I float further and further away from this site... I've found THAT community elsewhere. I've said this elsewhere before... It's really tough to be a Russian musicologist in the US right now... The community is almost non-existent.


_Maybe_ the community is almost non-existent, but I wouldn't use TC as a way of measuring that. I have great interest in some Spanish composers that rarely get mentioned here, but there are always new videos I see on youtube of musicians performing various works by these composers, recordings getting made etc. So obviously there _are_ plenty of people out there interested, it is just that one is not likely to encounter a large percentage of them on a website like this. I think having a profession in classical music is a very demanding, time consuming (and rewarding) job, and often a very solitary one. For these reasons it might seem like there may not be a lot of interest in certain areas of music if you are measuring it by things like forum activity, but I don't think most of the people that are most passionate about these topics and actually working in the field are necessarily the kind of people spending a lot of time posting on a website like this.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2016)

Loving Russian music does not mean you have to love Glazunov. Where does a notion like that even come from? I love Russian music.

Interesting that you put "modern" in the same category of adjectives as Russian, French, and German, though...


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The most popular 20th century composers seem to be Russian, so I seriously doubt it is an area of musical study that is being neglected.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2016)

tdc said:


> The most popular 20th century composers seem to be Russian, so I seriously doubt it is an area of musical study that is being neglected.


Once again, I think we're confusing neglect of Russian music with "but, but, my precious Glazunov!"


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Only Russian I like is Shostakovich - serious stuff with a serious message - my kind of music. The others (famous 5 of the 19th century) not at all. Tchaikowsky too lush, schmaltzy, and sweet. Same for Rachmaninoff. Mussorgsky too weird (Ballet of Unhatched Chicks, etc.). I know this sounds unfair, and I probably should give them another chance.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Richard8655 said:


> Only Russian I like is Shostakovich - serious stuff with a serious message - my kind of music. The others (famous 5 of the 19th century) not at all. Tchaikowsky too lush, schmaltzy, and sweet. Same for Rachmaninoff. Mussorgsky too weird (Ballet of Unhatched Chicks, etc.). I know this sounds unfair, and I probably should give them another chance.


"Unfair" is not the term I would use. And, yes, you probably should give them another chance. You may come to like them, or you may find you are not the intended audience for their works. Time will tell.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

I'm interested in Tischenko. I've bought a lot of Weinberg's music, too much to fully absorb. I also have some Boris Tchaikovsky which sounds interesting.
Okay, then there's Shchedrin, Gubaildulina, Galina Ustvolskaya, Sviridov, Taneyev - to go backwards - and I like what I've heard so far.
Who else should I investigate?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Just to offer my view:: I loathe topics and threads like this, for the reason that no good ever comes of them. They only serve to annoy, irritate, upset others, and are principally outlets for the supercilious to expose their opinions of today, and to show that they are not going to be brow-beaten into suppressing their contempt for this or that composer--brave folk indeed! But it may come that, in a number of years, they come around to actually liking some now-reviled composer, and they'll need to rethink. I was exactly that way in junior high, as I and a friend loudly scorned the music of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, while extolling other "better", newer composers. Some of the posts in this thread make me think I'm back in junior high again, this time as a sadder, wiser spectator. Why not stick to extolling the music you love, telling others why, and consider that you are just not now the audience the composer had in mind when the works you dislike were written. You may become that audience later.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> Just to offer my view:: I loathe topics and threads like this, for the reason that no good ever comes of them. They only serve to annoy, irritate, upset others, and are principally outlets for the supercilious to expose their opinions of today, and to show that they are not going to be brow-beaten into suppressing their contempt for this or that composer--brave folk indeed! But it may come that, in a number of years, they come around to actually liking some now-reviled composer, and they'll need to rethink. I was exactly that way in junior high, as I and a friend loudly scorned the music of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, while extolling other "better", newer composers. Some of the posts in this thread make me think I'm back in junior high again, this time as a sadder, wiser spectator. Why not stick to extolling the music you love, telling others why, and consider that you are just not now the audience the composer had in mind when the works you dislike were written. You may become that audience later.


Same shi*... I mean _stuff_, happened to me.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Just to offer my view:: I loathe topics and threads like this, for the reason that no good ever comes of them. They only serve to annoy, irritate, upset others, and are principally outlets for the supercilious to expose their opinions of today, and to show that they are not going to be brow-beaten into suppressing their contempt for this or that composer--brave folk indeed! But it may come that, in a number of years, they come around to actually liking some now-reviled composer, and they'll need to rethink. I was exactly that way in junior high, as I and a friend loudly scorned the music of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, while extolling other "better", newer composers. Some of the posts in this thread make me think I'm back in junior high again, this time as a sadder, wiser spectator. Why not stick to extolling the music you love, telling others why, and consider that you are just not now the audience the composer had in mind when the works you dislike were written. You may become that audience later.


For the most part I agree with the above post. Saying what you like and why is always positive and uplifting. But describing why you don't like something to me also has value, and doesn't necessarily imply base negativity or immaturity.

This is really what used to be called "crtiticism" in the historical sense, and was never used in a purely negative context. It meant analysis in describing why or why not a work of art is admired. Robert Hughes (authoritative author and art critic for Time magazine) wrote incredible reviews about historical and modern art, and some of them were quite scathing, yet brilliant.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Richard8655 said:


> This is really what used to be called "crtiticism" in the historical sense, and was never used in a purely negative context. It meant analysis in describing why or why not a work of art is admired. Robert Hughes (authoritative author and art critic for Time magazine) wrote incredible reviews about historical and modern art, and some of them were quite scathing, yet brilliant.


I would be more sympathetic to this view if we were a group of Robert Hughes, and were capable of detailed, informed criticism of composers and works we disliked. But in discussing art--as opposed to history, science, even politics-- we are talking about personal preferences, and not only is there no evidence that art can be evaluated as good, bad or whatever, but there is strong evidence that if you were informed by Robert Hughes that some particular work you loved was deeply, fatally flawed and that, by extension, was unworthy of your attention, then you would say to yourself--what? There must be something wrong with me because I like this? I need a new head? I think not. I grant you, it's fun sometimes to read critics and criticism of the arts as literature, and sometimes one can learn something new. But I personally read them secure in the validity and integrity of my own tastes, turn the tables, and thus critique the critics.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

I hear what you say, but everyone's opinions of art are equally valid, both positive and negative, and to express both sides should not be objectionable. Robert Hughes was an expert art critic, granted. His reviews and opinions were just as worthy as my or your opinions. I happen to like his criticisms, especially the negative ones, because they gave another perspective I might otherwise not have. It doesn't mean I have to slavishly follow or agree with them. My point is negative crticism is not immature or somehow detracting, but can add to your own views and perspectives.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Morimur said:


> Oh dear, so many. Let's start with Bruckner and Glazunov. One is ponderous and boring while the other doesn't even inspire hatred-just plain indifference.
> 
> Bring it on.


Just for purposes of illustration of what we are dealing with here, I bring forth the post that initiated this thread, and rest my case.


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## Autocrat (Nov 14, 2014)

dieter said:


> Sacre blue, who is left? Carter, Cage, Feldmann, Offenbach, Fanny Mendelssohn?


Lots of composers are left - more than I'll ever be able to listen to. Oh, and Offenbach is already listed, anyone else who wrote light opera can be assumed to be there as well.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Beethoven- nothing he wrote that I've heard has ever grabbed me. 
Mozart- just no. 
Lloyd-Webber- I wish I could write literally nothing and then charge royalties out the wazoo when someone wants to "perform" it. 
Romantic composers- not that I don't like romantic music, but when I go to romantic chamber concerts everything sounds exactly the same.


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## Robert Eckert (Mar 3, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Beethoven- nothing he wrote that I've heard has ever grabbed me.
> Mozart- just no.
> Lloyd-Webber- I wish I could write literally nothing and then charge royalties out the wazoo when someone wants to "perform" it.
> Romantic composers- not that I don't like romantic music, but when I go to romantic chamber concerts everything sounds exactly the same.


If you are not just joking about Beethoven, then you have unveiled the fact that you both have something in common: *Deafness*


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Robert Eckert said:


> If you are not just joking about Beethoven, then you have unveiled the fact that you both have something in common: *Deafness*


Refer to earlier posts for your answer


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## Harvard man (Mar 8, 2016)

I couldn't care less about Penderecki and Cage.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Harvard man said:


> I couldn't care less about Penderecki and Cage.


I find these composers difficult to not care about. Penderecki is one of the most popular living composers there is and I hear his music rather often. John Cage is mentioned so much on this forum so I have to find out how his music sounds like.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I can sum it up pretty easily.

Almost every composer earlier than the 20th century.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

That's as comical as those who categorically dislike anything contemporary/modern.

Anyway, composers I "couldn't care less about" is better translated as "composers that I haven't decided to dedicate time to". For some reason, I haven't had the desire to take time to listen to certain English composers like Vaughan Williams, Britten, and Elgar. The same can be said for the more obscure composers, think of the composers that Orfeo often writes about. I just can't bring myself to dedicate my time (which is more and more precious these days) to an obscure composer when I could further explore someone I _know _to be great. Safe, I know, but so it is.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

DiesIraeCX said:


> ...think of the composers that Orfeo often writes about. I just can't bring myself to dedicate my time (which is more and more precious these days) to an obscure composer when I could further explore someone I _know _to be great. Safe, I know, but so it is.


"I know to be great" can be translated: composers who wrote music I like, further, thanks to people like Orfeo one does not have to dedicate so much time... the man has sifted through vast layers of musical strata.

If I only listen because they are considered great then am I really listening at all?

But more... I fancy you would walk through quite a bit of garbage if in the end you knew it would yield something as beautiful as even one Beethoven Adagio. I am here to tell you that there is more beauty to be found among these obscure heaps. But thank men like Orfeo for saving us time and effort in trying to find it. Now go and learn the symphonies of *Alfredo Casella*.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Henryk Gorecki. His contemporary (and depressing) music was the rage a few years ago.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Klassic said:


> "I know to be great" can be translated: composers who wrote music I like,


I never claimed otherwise in my post. That said, I do believe in greatness, but that's another discussion, one I'm pretty tired of.



Klassic said:


> further, thanks to people like Orfeo one does not have to dedicate so much time... the man has sifted through vast layers of musical stratosphere.


Yup, I think it's awesome that he explores more obscure composers. We all listen to what we'd like to. I, of course, follow a different path than he. One is not "better" than the other.



Klassic said:


> If I only listen because they are considered great then am I really listening at all?


The answer is an obvious Yes. Unless you have some other definition of "listening" that I do. That said, I don't just listen to composers who are considered great, far from it.



Klassic said:


> But more... I fancy you would walk through quite a bit of garbage if in the end you knew it would yield something as beautiful as even one Beethoven Adagio. I am here to tell you that there is more beauty to be found among these obscure heaps. But thank men like Orfeo for saving us time and effort in trying to find it. Now go and learn the symphonies of *Alfredo Casella*.


Time is precious, time is money. I don't want to spend my time wading through "garbage", as you put it. I wouldn't call it garbage. However, if I have a spare three hours to spend, which is incredibly rare, I want to listen to Wagner and not Meyerbeer. That's just my philosophy.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

The answer is very simple.

All of us have great composers we do not understand. We have had many threads that have addressed this issue like this one.

I have lost track how many times I have stated that when the Verdi train left the station I was not on it.

There are also many obscure composers that many of us follow.

The final arbiter is your ears. Not my ears and anybody elses. Not even what is said in the hallowed threads of this exalted forum.

If your ears likes it, other peoples opinions are irrelevant.

That is why I like to include samples of music that I recommend so others can make up their own minds.

Addendum: I really feel uncomfortable making declaritive statements on what people should or should not listen to.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> .... but everyone's opinions of art are equally valid, both positive and negative .... .


I recognise that this is a fashionable viewpoint, but it is not *my* viewpoint. Everyone is entitled to say whether they like or dislike a particular piece of art, but there are informed, perceptive opinions of art that are more credible than ill-informed, ill-considered opinions.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

DiesIraeCX said:


> I never claimed otherwise in my post.


I apologize that my reply came across as a criticism. I did not mean it that way. I agree with you on most things you have said.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I recognise that this is a fashionable viewpoint, but it is not *my* viewpoint. Everyone is entitled to say whether they like or dislike a particular piece of art, but there are informed, perceptive opinions of art that are more credible than ill-informed, ill-considered opinions.


Possibly true. But then who's to judge which opinions are perceptive and which are ill-considered? It all gets pretty subjective.


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## KetchupOnIce (Nov 18, 2014)

Every atonal composer.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

KetchupOnIce said:


> Every atonal composer.


This applies to me, too.

Another composer who fails to excite me is Jean Baptiste Lully. I've by no means heard his whole output, but what I have heard doesn't seem to "do anything" for me.

Edited to add: If my brother were a member of this forum he'd no doubt answer "every Soviet composer" (e.g. Dmitri Shostakovitch).


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> This applies to me, too.
> 
> Another composer who fails to excite me is *Jean Baptiste Lully*. I've by no means heard his whole output, but what I have heard doesn't seem to "do anything" for me.


If you're willing to give Lully another shot, you might check out the recordings of his operas _Psyché_ and _Thésée_ by Paul O'Dette and the Boston Early Music Festival Orchestra & Chorus. I found them eye-opening.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> If you're willing to give Lully another shot, you might check out the recordings of his operas _Psyché_ and _Thésée_ by Paul O'Dette and the Boston Early Music Festival Orchestra & Chorus. I found them eye-opening.


As much as I agree with you, it's also depending on one's mood.
On this moment I like a bit of this and that, not Lully specifically. 
But just reading this, I might do tonight, (my time that is):tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TurnaboutVox said:


> A ***** in your armour at last, hp?


No. I've liked the G Major Quartet since I was a kid.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

DiesIraeCX said:


> That's as comical as those who categorically dislike anything contemporary/modern.


Maybe comical to you, but it is my taste, not yours.

I have given all eras of classical music a more than fair chance. From friends who have recommended many major and lesser composers and pieces. From extensive listening to classical radio. From extensive Youtube searches. My mind remains open.

While I can appreciate much of it on some levels, it does not excite, or challenge me in the way that 20th century and contemporary music does.

Maybe it's because I came to classical from listening to avant-garde progressive music. The bands in this genre are highly influenced by mid 20th century composers, which lead to a love of music from this era, and later.

I still continually give older classical a fair chance. I listen to classical radio quite a bit while driving around Los Angeles, if I'm not listening to NPR.


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