# Lets talk viola!



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

These days I am interested in all things viola! I even bought one and try to practice a bit every day. Today, for the first time, I miraculously could hold the bow without stressing my thumb. Might have been so, since I watched the Auryn quartet on youtube yesterday. There are only a handful of violists I know the name of. Bashmet is the only man I have known of forever. Tabea Zimmermann and Nobuko Imai are the ones I've listened to the most.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

William Primrose was probably the first known explicitly as a violist.
Wolfram Christ was viola soloist of the Berlin Philharmonic and also appears on some chamber and solo recordings. Gerard Caussé is another viola soloist, there a few but not that many. As there is so little solo/concerto repertoire they usually play a lot of chamber/ensemble music.
Rudolf Barshai was better known as a conductor, Paul Hindemith better as a composer.
There are a few violinists who also regularly played the viola, e.g. Zukerman and both David and Igor Oistrakh, I think. Mozart liked to play the viola, but he was also a good violinist, of course. Beethoven wasn't but recruited to occasionally scratch viola as kid in the Bonn orchestra.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I also have a lot of affection for pieces that involve a solo violist. There are quite a few (Mozart's K 364 and Berlioz's Harold in Italy among them) during the Classical and Romantic eras and a great many in the Twentieth Century. There are now quite a few contemporary viola soloists and it is probably no long justified to have a violinist play solo viola works. Among others we have Yuri Bashmet, Kim Kashkashian, Lawrence Power and Tabea Zimmermann. From the past we should also not forget Lionel Tertis.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Walton: Bratschenkonzert
Frankfurt Radio Symphony 
Antoine Tamestit, Viola


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*Kim Kashkashian* is probably my favorite both because of her musicianship as well as her choice of repertory. One of her recordings that I especially enjoy is this one:










She has also recorded a transcription of the *Bach* _Cello Suites_ which is fantastic for viola lovers:










And lastly, one of my favorite works for viola, the Shostakovich sonata:

Yuri Bashmet & Sviatoslav Richter - *Shostakovich*: _Viola Sonata_


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)




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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)




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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)




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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Nice! When I saw Radulescu, I knew it would be fun and crazy  It is! For my own good I will learn something tonal. Our new school orchestra will play "Baby Shark", pretty sure I'll nail it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ligetti wrote a long sonata for solo viola, it’s a late work. I find it really challenging, however Pemi Paull’s sober recording is worth seeking out I think. It includes things by Enescu and even a transcription of something by Mahler.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Nice! When I saw Radulescu, I knew it would be fun and crazy  It is! For my own good I will learn something tonal. Our new school orchestra will play "Baby Shark", pretty sure I'll nail it.


If you think that Radulescu's crazy wait till you hear Dumitrescu's solo viola piece


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Heres a modernist (as opposed to spectral or post modernist) 20th century viola piece


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mozart is the classical viola king, K 424 is a piece which I've loved all my life, or so it seems


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

It was to Yuri Bashmet that Sofia Gubaidulina dedicated her deep, compelling, and quite lovely _Concerto for Viola and Orchestra_. But as the composer notes, "the composition was dedicated not only to the performer, but also to his instrument."


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## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

György KURTÁG: _*Moments musicaux*_ (2005): v. Rappel des oiseaux (étude pour les harmoniques)
:: Arditti Quartet [Radio France] live from Festival Musica 2008 (Strasbourg)
This movement is a glimmering, shimmering study on harmonics dedicated to Tabea Zimmermann.
http://statework.blogspot.com/2009/0...pare-deep.html (you'll find a mediafire download link to the "corrected" files in the fourth comment)

Benjamin BRITTEN: *Lachrymae "Reflections on a song of Dowland" Op. 48a* (1976)
:: Power, Volkov/BBC Scottish SO [Hyperion '11]
This seamless, mostly hushed and eerie set of variations & theme lurks in the nether frequencies and dynamics, with the soloist (viola) deviously making his way through the hushed orchestral shadows like an escaped leper trying to avoid the sun while eluding the CDC. The atmosphere is one of strange harmonies in a ghostly orchestral cloak until the music intensifies and builds to a climax near work's end; as the climax fades out and the music dissolves, the harmonies insidiously organize and coalesce into a sort of harmonic normalcy and the beautiful Dowland theme ("If my complaints could passions move") magically emerges in its original form for the first time, the viola and strings sounding together rather like a large viol consort-one of the most goosebump-inducing, "Ahhh"-inspiring moments in all of Britten. Theme & variations in reverse, then. 
http://www.classicalm.com/en/compos...oncerto-Double-Concerto-Lachrymae-Ilan-Volkov (track 7)

Rebecca CLARKE: *"I'll bid my heart be still"* (1944)
:: Dukes & Rahman [Naxos '04]
This is a simple but beautiful arrangement for viola & piano of a Scottish border tune.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

David Aaron Carpenter records works by Dvorák, Bartók, Shor & Walton

David Aaron Carpenter is a outstanding viola player.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

the texture at 0:24


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

I saw Yuri Bashmet with Evgeny Kissin do the Shostakovich Viola Sonata and Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata. It was right after the financial crisis of 2008 and there were few people in attendance. Mozart was kind to violists: there's the Sinfonia Concertante, which is arguably his greatest concerto (a very bold statement, right?), the Duos for Violin and Viola, and the String Quintets, which has 2 violists. Walton and Bartok wrote some good stuff for viola.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Can someone post some viola jokes please.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Don’t forget Mozart’s Trio for Piano, Viola, and Clarinet.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Can someone post some viola jokes please.


What is the longest viola joke? Harold in Italy.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Can someone post some viola jokes please.


Victor Borge: "What's the difference between a violin and viola? The Viola takes longer to burn."


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I practiced my viola today. The next time I do I will pretend I'm this woman  It's hard to find a comfortable left hand position...


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Can someone post some viola jokes please.


http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/viola-jokes.html


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Today at lunch-time the school orchestra string section met to play. Sight-reading in alto clef and one missing string was a challenge even though it was "Baby Shark". It's actually fun to be a total beginner again!


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

So I changed all the strings, viola strings are almost 4 times as expensive as guitar strings...I watched a video to do it right and put on "peg-dope" and all! More rosin on the bow and voila, my sound is even worse than I remember from Thursday. I will try some more tomorrow


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Today we had orchestra practice! I was ready to play some children songs in alto clef when the bridge collapsed after one play-through...I tried to put it back and it collapsed again, so I left and found a cool folk-violin guy just outside town. My viola is spending the night with this stranger. Maybe the universe is telling me to play guitar...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

In the 60s and 70s, Walter Trampler was a well known recording violist. Oddly, judging by recordings, when he was with the Yale Quartet, they were less good than with his replacement (whose name I forget).

Harry Ellis Dickson, in his memoir about playing in the BSO, told about a longtime violinist who muttered sadly about a newly appointed principal violist: "So young, and already a violist!"

At an arts center I worked for, a student stage crew member inquired of the Guarneri's Michael Tree why his viola was smaller than that of the Hungarian Quartet, which had played earlier in the season. Tree explained that stringed instruments shrank as they aged.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Maxim Rysanov in Kancheli's Styx. Besides being an outstanding violist Rysanov is also an excellent conductor.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Today we had orchestra practice! I was ready to play some children songs in alto clef when the bridge collapsed after one play-through...I tried to put it back and it collapsed again, so I left and found a cool folk-violin guy just outside town. My viola is spending the night with this stranger. Maybe the universe is telling me to play guitar...


Ahh, it's often said Kjetil that learning to play the viola is a bridge too far for some musicians. It's normally the players that collapse not the bridge, especially beyond third position.
Never indicate vibrato in a viola part as there is no need to...ok I'll stop now.

The irony of course is that despite being the butt of all jokes musician wise, the viola is a gorgeous instrument and a valued member of the section so I hope you get on well with it.

[email protected], the Harry Ellis Dickson tale is priceless and made me giggle lots - typical muso wit.
Oh ok, just one more joke...
Q - How can you tell if a viola player is playing out of tune?
A - The bow is moving.

Seriously though, this is great...


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## Doublestring (Sep 3, 2014)

There are many jokes about viola players being failed violinists, but in my experience they're often very versatile musicians. They're not narcissistic, have good hearing, and they're apt at chamber music.

*My favourite players:*

Kim Kashkashian
Tabea Zimmermann
*My favourite pieces:*

W. A. Mozart - Trio for Piano, Viola, and Clarinet
Hector Berlioz - Harold en Italie
Johannes Brahms - Viola Sonatas
Claude Debussy - Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp
Béla Bartók - Viola Concerto 
Rebecca Clarke - Viola Sonata
György Ligeti - Viola Sonata 
Krzysztof Penderecki - Viola Concerto 
Jennifer Higdon - Viola Concerto


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Doublestring said:


> There are many jokes about viola players being failed violinists


Yes, promoted by TwoSetViolin


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Most of these jokes existed probably before TwoSetViolin's parents were born...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> Most of these jokes existed probably before TwoSetViolin's parents were born...


True. It's just that of the "influencers" who spread the joke these days, they're probably the most influential.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

New viola joke: I played a perfectly in tune C-major scale!


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> New viola joke: I played a perfectly in tune C-major scale!


Kjetil....wake up


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

It is because of the extra viola that the String Quintets sound WARM and FULL in comparison to the often shrieking string quartets.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> Kjetil....wake up


I did while playing viola this morning...screetching and scratching! Actually it's fun to be a total beginner again. I really want to learn how to sound decent and maybe play some Bach, but Baby Shark first


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

Personal story, weird but authentic.

After 10 years on the violin, I clearly wouldn't be a professional, and I still ignored I could earn money with engineering, so I thought I could be a violin maker. My father organized a week for me in a company in Mirecourt.

That one company made semi-industrial instruments copied from Strad, reproducing the dimensions (but not the wood nor the resonances). No single person there played a bowed instrument, and the production was sent to retailers, so no customer had come neither. Imagine: the ~10 people there had never heard their own instruments.

One day they came with a new instrument, still not varnished, and had found a bow too. They asked me to play the instrument, to know eventually how it sounds. I remember them sitting in half-circle around me. No score at hand, I played easy things I knew from memory: Prelude and Gavotte en rondeau from Bach's last partita. I just felt slightly uneasy on the instrument for lacking a chin rest.

After that, though not really enthusiastic, I commented "O yes, your violin is good".

Thoughts. Looks among them. Faces.

It wasn't a violin. It was a viola.

I had not noticed. I know this makes no sense. Like an alto versus soprano flute, or a cor anglais versus an oboe: bigger instrument, bigger distances between the fingers, different response under the bow - and I played everything a fifth lower and I DIDN'T NOTICE. Honestly and authentically. Somehow I adapted the finger spacing automatically. And most definitely, I have no absolute pitch.

Sure they searched complicated interpretations like "Your violin is good means your viola is bad" or "One can build a violin that way but no viola" or whatever.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I asked my wife if she could hear me play viola from the basement (my man cave) and she was happy to say no. She said she loves to hear me play classical guitar...Tonight I did some exercises after discovering Ivo Jan van der Werff from the Medici Quartet and also sightread study no. 1 from op. 86 by Hofmann. I will do it again  It does not sound good at all...


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

So what's the similarity between a viola and farting in a wetsuit?
It feels warm, but you can't always hear it.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Some sight reading today as well. Wohlfahrt...is that a viola joke? I managed to hold a bowing pattern throughout the study no. 1, but my bowing is all over the place...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

The viola gets a lot to do in this




Vaughan Williams, Ralph - String Quartet No. 2


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Eliesha Nelson made a wonderful CD of viola material by the American composer, Quincy Porter (1897-1966). Porter is polite, pleasant, melodic, lyrical, and tonal; sort of second-tier (or third-tier?) Samuel Barber. If you like American composers and you also have an affinity for the viola, check it out:









Quincy Porter:


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

SanAntone said:


> *Kim Kashkashian* is probably my favorite both because of her musicianship as well as her choice of repertory. One of her recordings that I especially enjoy is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm in full accord with you on Kim Kashkashian's interesting choice of repertoire. I have Kashkashian's wonderful collection of chamber music for viola by Paul Hindemith. To take on 2 CDs worth of Hindemith's music which is technically tonal, but academic enough to sound atonal; is innovative and courageous on a musical, as well as on a marketing level; even if Hindemith's music has it's rewards given an even chance.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Hey, just found out that Tabea Zimmermann plays in the Arcanto Quartett. I decided to look at string quartets on my favorite record labels and ended up on the site of harmoniamundi. I guess I have a lot to learn about violists and who's who things...or I can practice guitar some more


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Bought the sheet music, but will play it on guitar...


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

All joking aside, I love the guitar.


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

*The viola has new music!*

I stole *Achron's Hebrew melody* from the violinists, these people have too many scores anyway, it's there:
talkclassical
It should be as nice on a viola, or even nicer. Enjoy!

*Ysaÿe's Malinconia* was already there, for two violas, or violin and viola, or viola and cello
talkclassical


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

I just wonder why so few violinists play the viola too. It's essentially the same technique. Apart from reading the alto clef, a violinist can immediately play on a viola, and becoming proficient takes reasonable time.

Alto saxophonists add naturally the tenor. Or even, clarinettists add the bass clarinet or some saxophone, saxophonists add the flute, and so on - despite the embouchure differs radically and the fingerings too. But violinists typically don't. Why?


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## Mister Meow (10 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> Can someone post some viola jokes please.


It's a shame that the viola always plays second fiddle to the violin.

I'm sort of surprised that no one came up with that one already...


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

IMHO Max Bruch's concerto for clarinet and viola is well worth a listen. Lovely piece.


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

One of my favourite violists remains Lilian Fuchs. I recently listened to her 1950 recording of the Beethoven Serenade (string trio) op. 8 with her brother Joseph on the violin and Leonard Rose on the cello. The 4th movement adagio sections, where violin and viola play unisono, just blew me away.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Tony Conrad wrote and played some amazing pieces for viola. I love this recording with German Krautrockers, Faust:


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## GMB (10 mo ago)

There is a prominent Viola role in a beautiful work by Vaughan Williams, called Flos Campi which I love and recommend. VW himself played the Viola.


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

GMB said:


> There is a prominent Viola role in a beautiful work by Vaughan Williams, called Flos Campi which I love and recommend. VW himself played the Viola.


This reminded me that I had a recording of Flos Campi with Nabuko Imai and the English Chamber Orchestra. I just listened to it, captivating! And what a great viola player she is. I understand that the wordless choir takes some getting used to, I could not help thinking of silent horror movies by Murnau, but what glorious instrumentation, great sonorities and sheer variety of moods. Brilliantly recorded by Hyperion, too.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I listened to the Tamestit and Tiberghien recording of the Brahms Viola Sonatas (more often played as Clarinet Sonatas) and found it exceptional. Such superb chamber music playing - it really lifts the works above my earlier feelings about them. Recommended.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Enthalpy said:


> I just wonder why so few violinists play the viola too. It's essentially the same technique. Apart from reading the alto clef, a violinist can immediately play on a viola, and becoming proficient takes reasonable time.
> 
> Alto saxophonists add naturally the tenor. Or even, clarinettists add the bass clarinet or some saxophone, saxophonists add the flute, and so on - despite the embouchure differs radically and the fingerings too. But violinists typically don't. Why?


For professional clarinetists and saxophonists it is almost demanded that they play several from their family of instruments. I think the differences are actually smaller than between violin and viola. Many professional (and other) violinists are in fact able to play the viola, it's just that only a handful (like Suk and Zukerman) do so frequently in public. I think the main difference is that unlike with some woodwinds there is little demand for many people actual doubling vl./va. on a professional level. There are so many string players in every orchestra that it might almost always increase ones chances for getting hired or getting a better position to be a little bit better on violin instead of playing also viola. It's probably different in semi-professional or student orchestras.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Kreisler jr said:


> There are so many string players in every orchestra that it might almost always increase ones chances for getting hired or getting a better position to be a little bit better on violin instead of playing also viola. It's probably different in semi-professional or student orchestras.


I obviously can't speak for every community orchestra, but mine has a chronic shortage of viola players. At most rehearsals, we have 10 or so violins, 5 or 6 cellos, and zero violas - we have to hire ringers for concerts. It's enough of a problem that I'm considering learning viola so I don't have to lug a cello around....


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Yes, that's because for amateurs it is not _that_ easy to switch to viola. But I know of several people who easily got spots in student or similar orchestras because they played the viola, or in fact had switched from violin to viola for that purpose. Especially in former, less professional times, this must have been the case even more often, thus the viola jokes. It really were often the second rate players who couldn't get into the violin sections.
But on a higher professional level there is very little advantage in doubling, so I guess it is only done by people who either love the viola or eventually end up in a high level viola section


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

I just listened to Alfred Schnittke's incredibly exciting viola concerto played by Yuri Bashmet, who has been mentioned on this thread several times. I envy SearsPoncho for having listened to him live, fantastic technique and a wonderful warm tone. It is a massive 35 minute piece with a feverish Allegro di Molto ( great notturno type middle theme, though) in the centre, framed by two slow movements. This has been sitting on my shelf, I only remembered the cello concerto with Natalia Gutman. I strongly recommend the viola concerto, very listenable and a typically Schnittkean walk through different styles.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I was recently called in to play the piano part in the pit band for a student-led production of the revised YOU'RE A GOOD MAN CHARLIE BROWN.

Except for me, all the excellent musicians were teens, including the fledgling teen conductor. The WW book was split between a teen flautist and a teenage guy that could play the rest of the Woodwinds.

The violin book was split between a shy teen violinist, and a most excellent teenage violist. The violist had incredible tone, and could play practically everything in the violin book on viola, and served as a de facto mentor to the violinist.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Violin and viola alone together: this is a good record.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Watching string quartet performances over the years I've been amazed by how many viola players seem to set the tempo. I'd always assumed that it was the cello who dictated tempi but after seeing a few high profile quartets recently it's been the viola player who's kept things flowing. This was particularly evident with the Pavel Haas Quartet recently when Luosha Fang kept the ensemble together reining her comrades in on a few occasions. I suppose it's not as simple as that and depends on personalities, though.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

I thought this overview of contemporary viola concertos might interest you Kjetil. Enjoy
Contemporary Viola Concertos

1980 Pettersson
1981 Ruzicka: Den Impuls zum Weitersprechen
1983 Chen Yi Chin: Xian Shi, Penderecki
1985 C.Matthews 1, Schnittke
1989 Takemitsu: A String around Autumn
1992 Holmboe
1994 Ruders
1995 Beamish 1, Mansurian
1996 Gubaidulina, C.Matthews 2
1997 Eespere, Shchedrin: Concerto dolce, Sorensen: The Lady and the Lark
1998 Eötvös: Replica
2001 Beamish 2: The Seafarer, Pintscher: Tenebrae, Turnage: on opened Ground
2002 Larcher:Still, W.Rihm: Über die Linie IV
2004 Dean, Y.Robin: Mnemosyne
2005 Canat de Chizy: Les Rayons du Jour, Tower : Purple Rhapsody
2006 Aho
2008 Tuur: Illuminatio
2009 Connesson: Constellations, Neuwirth : Remnants of Songs
2011 Beffa
2013 MacMillan, A.R.Thomas 1, A.R.Thomas 2
2014 Kernis, Muhly
2015 Higdon, Widmann
2016 Dusapin
2018 Escaich : La Nuit des Champs
2019 G.Barry
2021 Hillborg


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

A small solo piece by one of my favourite composers, Christophe Bertrand called Arashi.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

This reminds me of Krzysztof Penderecki's Viola Concerto (1983) and his Cadenza per Viola Solo (1984). The Cadenza is a _fantastic_ piece to study and play. In my opinion it is a kind of condensed solo version of the concerto - and in my opinion it works even better as the expansion of the core motive can be more logically demonstrated in a single uninterrupted line all the way through. It has a kind of rhetoric, like Solo Bach, and I believe this is how it should be approached. It needs to be "declaimed". And it is full of meaning and emotional depth. But I am not aware of a good recording of it. When I last looked there was nothing that in my eyes did the piece any justice. There are also some smaller pieces by Penderecki for Viola Solo, but I don't know these. The viola concerto exists in several other versions that the composer himself published (cello, clarinet...).


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

Branko said:


> This reminds me of Krzysztof Penderecki's Viola Concerto (1983) and his Cadenza per Viola Solo (1984). The Cadenza is a _fantastic_ piece to study and play. In my opinion it is a kind of condensed solo version of the concerto - and in my opinion it works even better as the expansion of the core motive can be more logically demonstrated in a single uninterrupted line all the way through. It has a kind of rhetoric, like Solo Bach, and I believe this is how it should be approached. It needs to be "declaimed". And it is full of meaning and emotional depth. But I am not aware of a good recording of it. When I last looked there was nothing that in my eyes did the piece any justice.


Perhaps one should not make such statements.....I just found a quite convincing recording (from 1993) of the Cadenza played by a Polish violist called Artur Paciorkiewicz, on the disc below.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Although this thread is in the "Solo & Chamber Music" forum, a lot of the discussion is on concertos. Let;s kick this to the main forum.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

SearsPoncho said:


> Mozart was kind to violists: there's the Sinfonia Concertante, which is arguably his greatest concerto (a very bold statement, right?), the Duos for Violin and Viola, and the String Quintets, which has 2 violists.


Aumann was probably the first to employ the quintet ensemble of 2 violins, 2 violas, 1 cello in the Classical idiom, although there hasn't been substantial recording of his music. This practice was passed to his younger friend Haydn (both were acquainted through organ playing during their formative years in Vienna), who produced also a concerto for viola and organ, which is quite an early work of his (written in 1760), and imv doesn't quite show his unique side as his later works do.





MH189



Mandryka said:


> Mozart is the classical viola king, K 424 is a piece which I've loved all my life, or so it seems











The story has it that during Mozart's visit to Salzburg in 1783, Haydn was ill and was unable to complete his set of 6 pieces for violin and viola commissioned by the archbishop, so Mozart supplied the remaining two that Haydn was unable to write due to illness. There has been a research paper (by Euna Na) that examines the stylistic difference and similarity between the two and the "Change in Perceptions of the Viola" (see pg. 9) of the time, which seems to be an interesting read. [link]


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## composingmusic (Dec 16, 2021)

On the subject of violinists who are also violists, Marco Fusi plays violin and viola – also viola d’amore, which is a beautiful instrument!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

FastkeinBrahms said:


> I just listened to Alfred Schnittke's incredibly exciting viola concerto played by Yuri Bashmet, who has been mentioned on this thread several times. I envy SearsPoncho for having listened to him live, fantastic technique and a wonderful warm tone. It is a massive 35 minute piece with a feverish Allegro di Molto ( great notturno type middle theme, though) in the centre, framed by two slow movements. This has been sitting on my shelf, I only remembered the cello concerto with Natalia Gutman. I strongly recommend the viola concerto, very listenable and a typically Schnittkean walk through different styles.


Totally agree, one of the most important post-1945 concertos, and in the field of viola concertos generally, especially in the Bashmet/Rozhdestvensky Melodiya recording (he also did one for RCA).

There is a Bashmet performance on you-tube of Pettersson's Viola Concerto too, where the rather vague and evasive Imai recording on BIS could really need a new, supplementing CD release.

Sadly, Bashmet, who made a real scandal when performing in Copenhagen years ago, having done insufficient studies for the premiere of a Ruders concerto, has now also made some controversial political choices lately, that is, less controversial in his home country.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Delicate piece called Khse Buon (1980) from Cambodian composer Chinary Ung played by Mark Berger


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Sen II (1986) from Toshio Hosokawa played by Barbetti


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

The remarkable meaty sonata for solo viola (1991-1994) from Gyorgy Ligeti played by the legendary Tabea Zimmermann. I hope you can try this one one day, Kjetil.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

Someone mentioned Lillian Fuchs above...this is a taster of her Bach Solo:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

justekaia said:


> The remarkable meaty sonata for solo viola (1991-1994) from Gyorgy Ligeti played by the legendary Tabea Zimmermann. I hope you can try this one one day, Kjetil.


If I will try that, it's on guitar. I haven't played viola since before Christmas. I'm pretty good on guitar (have a MM from 1996) and really bad on viola (began a year ago)...


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Branko said:


> Perhaps one should not make such statements.....I just found a quite convincing recording (from 1993) of the Cadenza played by a Polish violist called Artur Paciorkiewicz, on the disc below.
> 
> View attachment 181260


May i suggest you try following versions of the Cadenza:
-Jürgen Weber on cd Excursions
-Kristina Fialova on CD Introduction
-Kawamoto on CD Viola Space Japan 10 th Anniversary
All of these can be found on spotify so you could sample them. Good luck.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> May i suggest you try following versions of the Cadenza:
> -Jürgen Weber on cd Excursions
> -Kristina Fialova on CD Introduction
> -Kawamoto on CD Viola Space Japan 10 th Anniversary
> All of these can be found on spotify so you could sample them. Good luck.


Thank you for this - I actually know the Jürgen Weber recording, but not the other two. Will find and listen !


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> -Kawamoto on CD Viola Space Japan 10 th Anniversary


Just listened to this recording and it is terrific! Really impressive. 
Thank you so much! 
On this disc


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Essentially a trio for oboe/viola/doublebass.
There's also a recording of the work played on flute/viola/continuo, btw.









MH179


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Saariaho's Vent nocturne (2006) in 2 parts played by Garth Knox


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)




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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah, the recording I've liked the most so far ...


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

This thread has mostly - and rightly - dealt with the viola as a solo instrument but what about orchestral pieces where the viola section plays a prominent part? The Brandenburg No. 6 is probably my favourite of the six concertos because of the unique in-between sonority it conveys. Last night, I listened to the Walter recording of Mahler 5, and I felt that without the violas, the Adagietto would be bereft of most of its unique melancholiness.
I am not a viola player myself but would be interested to know which orchestral pieces are the most fun to play for that instrument.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Who is our viola expert? Reveal yourself


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

FastkeinBrahms said:


> This thread has mostly - and rightly - dealt with the viola as a solo instrument but what about orchestral pieces where the viola section plays a prominent part? The Brandenburg No. 6 is probably my favourite of the six concertos because of the unique in-between sonority it conveys. Last night, I listened to the Walter recording of Mahler 5, and I felt that without the violas, the Adagietto would be bereft of most of its unique melancholiness.
> I am not a viola player myself but would be interested to know which orchestral pieces are the most fun to play for that instrument.


There are plenty of viola concertos of which you will find my list in this thread. A virtuoso viola player like Tabea Zimmermann would appear on Berlioz's Harold in Italy and in Strauss' s Don Quixote. In some orchestral pieces which you mention (Mahler's fifth) the viola is used but is not an important contributor to the overall work.The Brandenburgs are not orchestral works. So my conclusion is that the viola section does not play a prominent part outside the viola concertos and the two works mentioned.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

FastkeinBrahms said:


> I am not a viola player myself but would be interested to know which orchestral pieces are the most fun to play for that instrument.


 
Well, I used to play a little, but mostly opera for that matter....what immediately comes to mind is the end of the Lohengrin Vorspiel, as there is some harmonic interest in the viola line that just hits my sweet spot. 
In general, I used to enjoy those moments when there was a delectable turn in the harmony. It did not have to be a viola tune or orchestra solo which got me going. Which reminds me....my highlight for playing would probably be most of Wagner except Parsifal. For instance, there is a fantastic rhythmical passage, I think in Siegfried that goes on forever. Great fun. So invigorating ! And again full of harmonic interest. Or the bits around the funeral march in Gotterdammerung. 
Parsifal is the worst to play. My left arm used to die off. The music is so slow. There is one passage where the next page turn is something like 45 mins away. I seem to remember (perhaps wrongly) our part on desk 5 had a massive skull with bones penciled in at the top of that double view page. Comic relief. I have come to love it though to listen to. Meistersinger, of course, has some great bits, ie all the Beckmesser stuff, but not just that. I had a favorite place at the beginning, where my desk partner and I used to always crack the same joke during the cello solo. It became a ritual. Many such memories of ritual jokes that were being milked endlessly during rehearsals and shows. 
I also used to love certain accompaniment figures in the viola parts of Verdi operas. The off-beat quaver or semiquaver ornamental turns. Again, there is usually some harmonic interest in them that used to please me. I used to think of the viola section as a kind of engine that drives on the music with these off beats. It was immensely satisfying. But we got some tunes too, eg in Traviata. I remember Solti being quite pleased with me . I won't elaborate.
I used to also love playing the Tschaik ballets. There is quite a bit of interest for the violas, for instance in Nutcracker, but also in the other ones. Personally, I had a favorite moment, not to do with my part, in Sleeping Beauty where the tuba plays something that used to give me immense pleasure each time. He always got a shuffle with the feet from me afterwards. 
Great was also Elektra, because it is split into viola 1 and 2. I got to play 1 and there are some great viola moments. 
My worst memory is Hindemtih Mathis der Maler. I suddenly understood Karl Marx theory of alienation. It did not matter one bit what notes I played. Terrible experience. Others in the orchestra quite liked it though, I seem to remember. 



justekaia said:


> So my conclusion is that the viola section does not play a prominent part outside the viola concertos and the two works mentioned.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Branko said:


> Well, I used to play a little, but mostly opera for that matter....what immediately comes to mind is the end of the Lohengrin Vorspiel, as there is some harmonic interest in the viola line that just hits my sweet spot.
> In general, I used to enjoy those moments when there was a delectable turn in the harmony. It did not have to be a viola tune or orchestra solo which got me going. Which reminds me....my highlight for playing would probably be most of Wagner except Parsifal. For instance, there is a fantastic rhythmical passage, I think in Siegfried that goes on forever. Great fun. So invigorating ! And again full of harmonic interest. Or the bits around the funeral march in Gotterdammerung.
> Parsifal is the worst to play. My left arm used to die off. The music is so slow. There is one passage where the next page turn is something like 45 mins away. I seem to remember (perhaps wrongly) our part on desk 5 had a massive skull with bones penciled in at the top of that double view page. Comic relief. I have come to love it though to listen to. Meistersinger, of course, has some great bits, ie all the Beckmesser stuff, but not just that. I had a favorite place at the beginning, where my desk partner and I used to always crack the same joke during the cello solo. It became a ritual. Many such memories of ritual jokes that were being milked endlessly during rehearsals and shows.
> I also used to love certain accompaniment figures in the viola parts of Verdi operas. The off-beat quaver or semiquaver ornamental turns. Again, there is usually some harmonic interest in them that used to please me. I used to think of the viola section as a kind of engine that drives on the music with these off beats. It was immensely satisfying. But we got some tunes too, eg in Traviata. I remember Solti being quite pleased with me . I won't elaborate.
> ...


very funny video of a colourful character whom i met a couple of times as i have been active in the sports industry; that being said i am dead serious about my statement, because you mention opera and ballet music, we are anwering a question about orchestral music; never mind, i enjoyed your post


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> orchestral music



But just look at Bruckner symphonies !! And I can also immediately think of some Beethoven ! 
Sure, it depends of what one would think of as prominent or important. But surely at least in Bruckner you would agree?


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

....and I just remembered a lovely solo for the principal viola in the Sibelius Violin concerto. There is a lovely dialogue between the solo violin and the solo viola. But there is quite a bit of interest even for the entire section in this concerto, eg the rhythm figure driving the last movement with the violas taking their significant part in it. I had the pleasure of playing that viola solo couple of times in the BBC North with Josh Bell on solo violin. That was fun. Cannot remember for the life of me who was conducting. Tortelier? I also remember Sibelius 5th Symph from the same run of concerts, I think. Plenty of interest from the viola section. At least I tremendously enjoyed playing it, so I assume I must have felt my input was important in some ways. 
But maybe I am misunderstading the discussion topic...not sure.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Contemporary viola solo Pieces

-Almashi: Sarabande, Tango
-Bodorova: Gila Rome
-Carter: Figment IV
-Brett Dean: Intimate Decisions
-Diaz-Jerez: El Libro de Arena
-Dillon: Siorram
-Djordjevic: Pomen II
-Dusapin: Incisa
-Francesconi: Charlie Chan, Animus II
-Fujikura: Flux
-Vladimir Godar : O Crux
-G.F.Haas: Solo for viola d’amore
-Hearne: Nobody’s
-Hosokawa: Sen II
-Jarrell: … some Leaves…
-Krenek: Sonata for solo viola op 92/3
-Kyriakides: Music for viola
-Lamb: Ear Meal
-Klaus Lang: Der Wind und das Meer
-Levinas: Les Lettres enlaces II
-Ligeti: Sonata for solo viola
-Mansurian: Ode an den Lotus
-Mantovani: Little Italy
-Marc Monnet: Fantasia bruta
-Murail: C’est un Jardin secret
-Neuwirth: ? risonanze for viola d’amore
-Nishimura: Sonatas I & 2 for viola
-Norgärd: Sonata “The secret Melody”
-Nunes: La Main noire for 3 violas
-P.Oliveira: Rust
-Parra: Mineral Life II
-Penderecki: Cadenza
-Persichetti: Parable XVI
-Pettersson: Fantasie for solo viola
-Radulescu: Das andere, Lux Animae
-Reis: Fluxus for viola and electronics
-Ruders: Autumn Collection
-Saariaho: Vent nocturne
-Scelsi: Coelocanth, 3 Studies, Manto, Xnoybis
-Sciarrino: Ai Limiti della Notte
-Caroline Shaw: In Manus tuas
-Silvestrov: Lacrimosa
-Sorensen: Sarabande
-Stankovych: Monologue
-Tabakova: Pirin
-Tenney: Blues for Annie
-Thorvaldsdottir: Transitions
-Tower: Wild Purple, Simply Purple, Purple Rush
-Ung: Khse buon
-Vlad: Printesa X
-Wuorinen: Viola Variations
-Xenakis: Embellie
-B.A.Zimmermann: Sonata for solo viola
As a token of my appreciation for Kjetil's friendship i contribute the list of solo viola pieces.


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

Well that certainly helped me to listen more closely to some sections of Wagner et al. thank you! And Justekaia is right about the 6th Brandenburg Concerto not really being an orchestral piece. However, I still like some of the more old-fashioned non-HIP performances with slightly larger forces, like for example the Festival Strings Lucerne under Baumgartner.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Branko said:


> ....and I just remembered a lovely solo for the principal viola in the Sibelius Violin concerto. There is a lovely dialogue between the solo violin and the solo viola. But there is quite a bit of interest even for the entire section in this concerto, eg the rhythm figure driving the last movement with the violas taking their significant part in it. I had the pleasure of playing that viola solo couple of times in the BBC North with Josh Bell on solo violin. That was fun. Cannot remember for the life of me who was conducting. Tortelier? I also remember Sibelius 5th Symph from the same run of concerts, I think. Plenty of interest from the viola section. At least I tremendously enjoyed playing it, so I assume I must have felt my input was important in some ways.
> But maybe I am misunderstading the discussion topic...not sure.


Branko, whatever the topic I really appreciate your comments which come from somebody who plays the instrument and shed some light on the role the viola plays in the orchestral works and in the operas. It is seldom dominant but adds a very sentimental note. Thk you for your comments. I hope you will enjoy my solo list.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> I hope you will enjoy my solo list.


Yes, I really like your solo list. Most of the pieces are unknown to me and the other day you recommended a truly brilliant Penderecki Cadenza recording ! 
So thank you again!


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Branko said:


> ....and I just remembered a lovely solo for the principal viola in the Sibelius Violin concerto. There is a lovely dialogue between the solo violin and the solo viola. But there is quite a bit of interest even for the entire section in this concerto, eg the rhythm figure driving the last movement with the violas taking their significant part in it. I had the pleasure of playing that viola solo couple of times in the BBC North with Josh Bell on solo violin. That was fun. Cannot remember for the life of me who was conducting. Tortelier? I also remember Sibelius 5th Symph from the same run of concerts, I think. Plenty of interest from the viola section. At least I tremendously enjoyed playing it, so I assume I must have felt my input was important in some ways.
> But maybe I am misunderstading the discussion topic...not sure.


You are absolutely not misunderstanding the topic. Talk viola it is! I'm trying to learn viola (after 35 years of classical guitar) and have done some surfing on the net. Essential pieces, famous players and teachers and books are of interest  Welcome aboard, you're the viola pro!


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

Ok , I like viola talk......but just for the record I have to mention I stopped playing quite a while ago.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh no, Lawrence Power is coming to Norway on tuesday and I can't go...


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