# The Most Challenging Piece That You Came to Appreciate… or Not



## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

What was the challenge exactly? And why did it take such an effort to overcome it, whether this ultimately happened or not?

Go ahead, ladies and gentlemen, share the stories of your most glorious achievements and your most miserable failures please!


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

It has yet to happen with me and _the Rite of Spring_.  But the closest "challenge" I've had recently was Prokofiev's 2nd Symphony. Still occasionally I have trouble with it, especially the 1st movement, but it actually makes sense to me now! I actually have acquired a taste for its particular kind of dissonance, with block chords, impressionism, and polytonality.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Assuming you're meaning listening and not playing, because most pieces are a challenge for me to play, then it would be Edgar Varese's _Arcana_.

A lot of this type of music, atonal or whatever you want to call it, reminds me too much of TV soundtracks. It's like the raucous music used in fight scenes in movies and TV from the 1950's onward. So we baby-boomer aged people, I believe, have become conditioned to think of TV when hearing atonal. I have anyway. Makes me want to get up and turn the TV off so I can go listen to music.

I tried to overcome this handicap and actually enjoy "atonal" or modern by memorizing the piece. This method had worked decades before with Ligeti's _Atmospheres_ off the 2001: a space odyssey soundtrack. I listened to _Arcana_ over and over one weekend and read about what I was supposed to be noticing. I did manage to recognize a recurring motif and I could now hum parts of the piece in the shower or whatever, but I'm afraid it didn't work this time for really appreciating the piece. I do think my method for trying is valid. Maybe that's just not the atonal piece for me. I'll try again with another someday.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Beethoven 9th (no kidding). It's not that I found ugly or something like that, but there was a huge gap between my appreciation of it and the title it got (greatest symph). Im still working on it, but Im starting to get it. Still like the 5th way way more.
It took me some time to get Janacek's 2nd SQ, but know I really love it.
I had some troubles with the Rite either, I'm over it now.
Mozart's 41. I do acknowledge now that this is one of the best classical symphonies.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

And Id like to add Debussy Cello Sonata, first Imperssionist piece Ive ever heard (Bolero doesnt count), I was like WTF is this music?! What is he doing?! After some listening I started to get it, today it's of, my favorite pieces in the genre

Edit:
I cant edit my first post, so please pretend I wrote now and not know


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> It has yet to happen with me and _the Rite of Spring_.  But the closest "challenge" I've had recently was Prokofiev's 2nd Symphony. Still occasionally I have trouble with it, especially the 1st movement, but it actually makes sense to me now! I actually have acquired a taste for its particular kind of dissonance, with block chords, impressionism, and polytonality.


Yes - _The Rite of Spring_ is the hardest of the Stravinsky ballets I think. I'm still working on that one.

I am still having trouble getting into Wagner. But probably the hardest one I overcame was Josquin. He's one freaking incredible composer.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I personally took to the Rite immediately. I'd say that lately I'm rather proud of my appreciation for William Schuman's 3rd symphony and Britten's violin concerto. Still trying to crack Britten's sinfonia da reqiem and William Schuman's 6th.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Recently, I've returned to listening recordings I got earlier of the music of the likes of* Xenakis, Lutoslawski, Stockhausen *& am beginning to notice the differences between their pieces, whereas before I found them to be virtually all the same. I'm talking about the similarity between various works by the same modern/contemporary composer, not between different composers. I think this has been a bit of an achievement, whether a glorious achievement or not, because this is not "easy" music. It doesn't mean I understand or "get" it fully, just that I can listen to it now & not think that it's all the same, I can hear the differences (even if they seem obvious now, they certainly weren't before)...


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

I would say Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time. I can usually recognize his music when I hear it, but I find Messiaen difficult to enjoy aside from the quartet.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^I think *Messiaen's* song-cycles are pretty good in terms of them being my "next step" after knowing _Quartet for the End of Time_. Eg. _Poemes pour Mi _& also _Harawi_, they are quite dramatic and expressive & present a kind of journey, similar to the_ Quartet_ in some ways...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Crumb's Black Angels. 

Since then, I don't know if anything has challenged me.


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

Anything Milton Babbitt ever wrote. I really tried, too--read his writings, studied and attempted to analyze scores, played around with his techniques myself, everything. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to the serialist aesthetic; there's plenty of Boulez, Wuorinen etc. that I really like. I just could never get anywhere with Babbitt's music.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I tried to get into Shostakovich recently... and failed.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Klavierspieler said:


> I tried to get into Shostakovich recently... and failed.


Which string quartets did you try?


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

jalex said:


> Which string quartets did you try?


I didn't, I tried Symphonies and Sonatas.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I bought this CD a while back, but I haven't been able to get into the music.


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

Beethoven's Große Fuge


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Klavierspieler said:


> I didn't, I tried Symphonies and Sonatas.


Doinitwrong 

Seriously, I can understand why his symphonies and sonatas may do nothing for people but the string quartets are the real treasures of his output. They deserve a try before you give up.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

jalex said:


> Doinitwrong
> 
> Seriously, I can understand why his symphonies and sonatas may do nothing for people but the string quartets are the real treasures of his output. They deserve a try before you give up.


All righty, I'll give 'em a shot.


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## robert (Feb 10, 2007)

BOULEZ the composer...... love him both as composer and conductor....


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Well, I recently heard Mendelssohn's third symphony "Scottish" again after years of thinking of it as 'pleasant-but-boring' however, the rising melody in the last couple minutes of the finale hit me so hard it'll probably be making guest appearances in my dreams. Needless to say, I've been completely re-evaluating how I think of Mendelssohn as a composer.


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

jalex said:


> Doinitwrong
> 
> Seriously, I can understand why his symphonies and sonatas may do nothing for people but the string quartets are the real treasures of his output. They deserve a try before you give up.


Thanks to your post, I found _this _:




Amazing!


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

I think I've got the measure of Bartoks String Quartets now and pretty proud of that! This is probably about the limit of my listening capabilities at the moment but it always seems to be expanding


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## chrislowski (Aug 20, 2011)

HerlockSholmes said:


> Thanks to your post, I found _this _:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love pretty much all Shostakovich's music but I agree the Quartets are probably the best place to start. His 8th is one of my favourites:






If you decide to try his Symphonies again, I recommend this cd:










Chung's 4th & 5th have quickly became my favourite recordings of these symphonies.


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## HerlockSholmes (Sep 4, 2011)

chrislowski said:


> I love pretty much all Shostakovich's music but I agree the Quartets are probably the best place to start. His 8th is one of my favourites:


D-S-C-H. I'm quite fond of that motif.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Let me see.....Ernst Krenek's Karl V....a whole dodecaphonic music...It is hard to hum...I bought the DVD. The _mise en scene _is very curious...a school teacher is the king...mmm....A bit too modern for old Martin.

Martin, old


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Klavierspieler said:


> I tried to get into Shostakovich recently... and failed.


Go back to Haydn then....LOL

Martin


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Conor71 said:


> I think I've got the measure of Bartoks String Quartets now and pretty proud of that! This is probably about the limit of my listening capabilities at the moment but it always seems to be expanding


I'm still working on these. No. 3 is starting to sound better, so I'm making a little progress.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

starthrower said:


> I bought this CD a while back, but I haven't been able to get into the music.


Update: After listening to this one again, my brain is hearing a lot more in the music. Good stuff!


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I could probably write many pages on the numerous pieces that have challenged and thoroughly defeated me. The most difficult works for me are all avant-garde - for example, Xenakis (Mikka and Theraps) and Stockhausen (Stimmung). I am completely lost in music such as this. 

The piece that frustrates me the most is probably Berg's Violin Concerto. In general atonal music is very difficult for me, but since so many people have talked of the Berg concerto in the highest terms, I would really like to "crack" it. 

In the discussion of Shostakovich, many people recommended the string quartets first, but I came to like the piano works (concertos and quintet) along with symphonies before the quartets. I usually approach symphonic works first so perhaps that's not surprising.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

listened to the first two movements of boulez second piano sonata - I felt a great trembling in my arms, and a feeling of emptyness inside. I had lost the ability to think for a few moments, and had to recover.

I then tried to listen to stockhausen - I had only listened to the first 1.30 minutes of it ( i think it was the mantra theme), i couldnt handle it anymore.

I then listened to the mechanical symphony. and while it certainly sounds mechanical, I dont like to think of music as being so coldly mechanical. 

All these failed for me, maybe in a few months i will try again, but for now - It leaves me with no impression of anything.

The Grosse Fugue is still my most prized and valued modern work from any composer. I wish more composers explored its brilliance.


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