# Studies/Pieces to build technique



## OrangeSkies

Hello 

So I've been taking piano lessons for around 7 years.
My teacher however, I don't feel was competent.
She didn't seem very keen on fixing specific mistakes, and developing solid piano technique, or teaching any music theory other than fundamentals and reading music.
After becoming quite bored with classical, I quit lessons to pursue jazz (I also play sax )
However, I feel my technique is sorely lacking, especially considering how long I played.
Everything is something I have to work at for a long time to learn. Even simple tunes are a struggle to get under my fingers.
So I decided to start over with piano, trying to build good technique, repetoire, and more appreciation in classical music.
So I have a few questions.
1. What studies/exercises should I practice? I began with Hanon and I'm transposing them in all keys, is this a reasonable place to start?
2. I find Baroque and Classical Era a chore to listen to and learn. My main interests in Art music are (Post) Romanticism, Impressionism, Beethoven, Phillip Glass Style stuff, and Avant-Garde. Is it neccesary to study all areas of classical music?
3. Do you like ice cream cake?

Sorry if this is asking too much.

Have a nice day! (or night)


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## kv466

I think Rasa will have a good answer for you, or Luke.

As far as I can recommend, without truly knowing your level of play...get down as many Mozart sonatas as you can as well as the first 10 Beethoven...I would suggest some composers' etudes but I don't know if you're at that level yet. Either way, good luck and keep playing!

Oh, and yes...I do like ice cream cake when it is hand-made. Maybe Coldstone, too.


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## Ukko

Etudes. Moscheles.


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## clavichorder

1)If you are looking for solid and musical etudes, I recommend Muzio Clementi's Gradus ad Parnassum. Stay away from the Sonatinas, they will only bore you. But Gradus ad Parnassum will be great for technique and it might bore your mind just a tad, but its far more interesting than Czerny or Kramer and it certainly will keep your fingers busy.

Also, I know you said you don't like Baroque but have you tried Scarlatti sonatas? Rachmaninoff once told a pianist who quit for a while and was looking to build up their technique to go on a Scarlatti diet. Also, Chopin love those sonatas. These guys knew what they were talking about. 

2) Though the Clementi is classical era, surely classical era with technique building is better than just plain technique building with minimal musical substance as in Czerny. But if this idea doesn't thrill you, perhaps Scarlatti sonatas could be an exception to your baroque tastes, they have a lot of fun in them that doesn't happen in most Baroque and Classical music, they are unique. 

Now, here's the part of my answer that I'm hoping will appeal to you: if you want some 20th century stuff to learn, I can be of assistance in good easy pieces. Try Federico Mompou's Musica Callada. Or Alexander Tcherepnin's op. 5 bagatelles. Or Bartok! Lots of Bartok. These are all great examples of 20th century music but very easy stuff. Those three, do they sound interesting? Look for them! There are ways to build your technique and learn new music without playing any classical era at all, though most people wouldn't approve, but I personally find it interesting in a quirky way, and almost would do it myself if I didn't dig the classical and baroque periods so much. Who knows, maybe one day you'll discover who great a 20th century composer Medtner is and play him after you've done your Mompou, Tcherepnin, and Bartok business.

3) I like the ice cream cake. Mint chocolate chip or cookie dough.


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## aganram

1. I sometimes use Hanon for warm-ups but never treated any of his pieces as serious exercises outside of working scales. Czerny, as clavichorder said, is good for technique but musically boring; if you can figure out exactly what your weak points are (finger articulation? Wrist relaxation? Garbling tone in the left hand?) then it is a simpler matter to target whichever Czerny exercise focuses on the problem, instead of systematically going through an entire exercise book, which is mostly going to be a mundane waste of your time. 

2. I don't philosophically think that it's necessary to study every era, though I do think that the different musical eras supplement each other and it's a good idea to understand all of them as much as possible before deciding to specialize. If you learn Bach, your Debussy will improve. 

3. God yes.


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## Rasa

Best way is to follow an exercise sched (like Hanon) and play scales and arpeggios really. I have this nice book for scales and arpeggios with good fingerings. it's important to always practice with the same fingering.

The big studies collections are great: Chopin are pieces with technique, and Rachmaninov's are even better at that. It's really a joy to discover each tableau


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## Polednice

Ice cream + cake is the worst possible combination. I'll eat them both at the same time if they're in separate bowls, but keeps that crumby cake of my heavenly ice cream!


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## OrangeSkies

Thanks for all the suggestions 
Considering there's 555 Scarlatti sonatas, it'll probably be hard to get through them all, so is there any recommended order of study/difficulty?

And aganram, what exactly do you mean by "working scales"?


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## clavichorder

For Scarlatti sonatas, just check out this edition, now instead of 555 you have 60 well chosen ones. Poke around in it to get a sense of what's more difficult, and ask your teacher which ones she would recommend.

http://www.amazon.com/SONATAS-Schir...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320447698&sr=1-2


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## Nssie

Get a new teacher. One that is more competent (of course that is judged only by your personal opinion), and has more attantion to detail (of course that is also judged only by your personal opinion). And i don't like ice cream AND cake, but ice cream cake (a cake made out of ice cream) is nice, though i won't have it too often


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## pioudine

OrangeSkies, technique and musicality go together, like body & soul !
So working hard scales, arpeggios and patterns is one thing, but I had an advice : work pianistic techniques through the famous composer's masterworks ! Concerning the interpretation listen again & again to music for hours, weeks and years, cause this is the best teaching, believe me...


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## appoggiatura

Luckily my teachers never made me practise scales and arpeggios. You get a good technique by playing the pieces you want to. It will come automatically. You don't need endless Czerny études to become a good pianist.
Just play whatever you like to do. Even if it's too hard, learn to love to read sheet music. It's good for your reading skills and if you really want to play something you will achieve it one day, I can tell from experience  Besides, it's more fun if you study the masterworks. 
_Throw youself in the deep end._
Practising is the key word.


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## Rasa

Then again, you get to play the pieces you want a lot faster if you already have a solid hand built by exercises. It's a timesaver.


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## appoggiatura

Yes but the scales you practise are in general different than the scales in other pieces...
Studying etudes for technique also costs time. I don't think it matters that much.


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## Sofronitsky

Polednice said:


> Ice cream + cake is the worst possible combination. I'll eat them both at the same time if they're in separate bowls, but keeps that crumby cake of my heavenly ice cream!


Ice Cream Cake, next to Apple Pie, is my favorite dessert!


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## Sofronitsky

Oh and to actually help the thread starter, playing Bach is an excellent way to build technique. Inventions, Sinfonias, or selections from the WTC will help you so much if you have the drive to learn them at the same pace you learn say, a very compelling romantic or modern piece of music. Look for simpler ones with 2-3 voices and trills in both hands, it'll help you alot!


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## Rasa

Over the last few months I've been working on Mozart's variations over "Ah vous dirai-je maman". It's a broad overview of all classical piano techniques and definitely worth working on for that!


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## Il_Penseroso

Rasa said:


> Over the last few months I've been working on Mozart's variations over "Ah vous dirai-je maman". It's a broad overview of all classical piano techniques and definitely worth working on for that!


I agree, I've found Mozart Sonatas more difficult than Beethoven's in so many cases ...

and this is also a noteworthy quote by George Bernard Shaw :

_If you want to find out the weak places in a player's technique, just wait till he has dazzled you with a Chopin Polonaise, or a Liszt Rhapsody, or Schumann's Symphonic Studies, and then ask him to play you ten bars of Mozart or Mendelssohn._


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## dmpdmp

*Suggested Etudes*

Liszts Etudes are pretty difficult and Chopins, especially the Etudes D'execution Transcendante. If you can master those you are doing well.

I have compoesd some etudes you can find at http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/DavidPiper


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## worov

I strongly second Sofronitsky's idea : Bach inventions and sinfonias are very good to develop hand independance and dexterity (if you play them at a fast tempo). There is a excellent recording by Angela Hewitt if you have not heard them. You can listen to this recording in this YouYube playlist :

Bach inventions and sinfonias performed by Anglea Hewitt

If you are advanced enough, there is the WTC. There are plenty of recordings of thisone. I like Rosalyn Tureck, Angela Hewitt and Andras Schiff. It will bring finger independance, voicing, dexterity, touch, everything you need. 7

When you have mastered the WTC, start on Chopin Etudes. Same here, plenty of recordings, I like Claudio Arrau (EMI).

Rasa mentionned Mozart's variations on "Ah vous-dirais-je Maman", K265, these are very good and fun. Good to improve the left hand technique. As always with Mozart, easy on the ear, very hard on the page. Very hard to play well.


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## hreichgott

OrangeSkies, your OP was a while ago, do you want to update us? How is it going?

I will second the Bartok recommendation; actually his Mikrokosmos are the best preparation for learning advanced Bach that I know of. There are 6 books of Mikrokosmos so you can start at the level you find appropriate.


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## PetrB

If you're going to call yourself any kind of real musician / performer, that includes working on and performing works which are less than your favorites, and performing them well, in style, and convincingly. Sometimes that means becoming an actor, _i.e. "this is not me but I will slip into the role and become a player of Bach, Haydn, Mozart,"_ etc.

What is not liked as much varies from person to person, my favoring the romantic far less than any other period -- yet, whether I loved them or not, I've had to do Brahms, Chopin, Liszt, etc. Once on board, there is no sense in doing them less than 'as they should be,' whether I feel like it or not. Listeners who did not know my lack of love for some of that music were note the wiser, which means my renderings were 'convincing.' Fact is, love it or not, if you are also 'truly' a musician, there will be 'something to say' about whatever set pieces you are working upon. (Even as a Jazz pianist, if you become a pro, you will be expected, and market forces will demand, that you play some variant of a tune you really really do not care for.)

It is precisely Bach, Haydn, Mozart, which will 'clean up your technical act' (and your holding to good pulse-keeping) and give you an independence of fingers which will hold you in good stead for any and all else.

Later, Chopin does quite the same if not played in a mawkish sentimental way with tempi all over the place and the damper pedal overused  I've listed a number of the Preludes -- which are as much or more 'Etudes' than Chopin's Etudes -- those listed specifically for Left Hand work-out, in post @4, here:
http://www.talkclassical.com/24198-pieces-busy-left-hand.html#post427039

Scales and arpeggios (absolute musts), and Hanon can still only go so far. The moment you get to a scalar passage or arpeggio passage in Mozart and so much other 'real repertoire,' the fingering may be entirely different due to the stop / start points and the configuration. Better to extract passages from pieces and work on them, fingering and creating the same for 'the other hand' to get an equal work-out. Actual repertoire has variances which you will need to negotiate which are never present in scales and Hanon, that being the rule, not the exception.

There are literally thousands of Czerny Etudes, and I am unfamiliar with almost all of them: some might be perfectly good for you at your present level.


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## Taggart

I suppose I'm at approximately the same level ABRSM 6 moving up to 7.

Hanon is good. It concentrates to some extent on hand movement.

You might also want to look at the two volumes of Tankard - Foundations of Pianoforte Technique up to about grade 7 and Pianoforte Technique: on an Hour a Day with Eric Harrison which goes from grade 7 up to Concert Level. Tankard was a teacher of keyboard. These concentrate on finger movement (mostly) with a static hand position and some of them are quite challenging.


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