# Leyla Gencer???



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I discovered her this week. I saw no other threads about her. I was impressed with her very much. To my ears her voice evokes Caballe's but with more emotional involvement. Am I the only person to hear this similarity? I have only heard her Anna Bolena, but she was quite wonderful. Of course the voice was not massive like Sutherland's but it wasn't needed for this role. Unlike Joan, she seemed to have a traditional soprano range . What are your opinions. She appeared to be very lovely, which is always an unexpected plus.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I discovered her this week. I saw no other threads about her. I was impressed with her very much. To my ears her voice evokes Caballe's but with more emotional involvement. Am I the only person to hear this similarity? I have only heard her Anna Bolena, but she was quite wonderful. Of course the voice was not massive like Sutherland's but it wasn't needed for this role. Unlike Joan, she seemed to have a traditional soprano range . What are your opinions. She appeared to be very lovely, which is always an unexpected plus.


Leyla Gencer, also known as the Queen of the Pirates, due to her discography being heavily weighted with live recordings. She was competing with the world class sopranos Callas and Tebaldi in their heyday and later with the ones that followed, Caballe, Sutherland, Scotto, Freni, etc., never quite in the same class. The voice was serviceable, with a good timbre, with a lovely pianissimo, able to do coloratura not quite perfectly, but enough to pass.

She was able to imbue any part she sang with enough drama to satisfy the public. She was often in the second cast. Callas would open and do a run of 4-5 performances, _la Turca_ would do the later performances, same with Tebaldi or any other singer of note. Even Stella. She made a decent try at San Francisco Opera, and maybe Chicago, but I don't think she did the Met.

She is the guilty pleasure of many operaphiles, just like Magda Olivero. She was totally ignored by the major record companies (I think). The voice was not distinctive enough, or big enough, or pretty enough. Though I think she had better material than Scotto, for instance. Gencer had enough vocal weight to compete with Stella, Tucci, and the like, and enough intelligence to have a great career, but somehow never did. Oh, she did have a good career in Italy, but I think that was it.

She was a very good singer, but never a great one, though _she _thought she had the _fuoco sacro_. I never followed her career, but I think she had many fans, even at the Met and, certainly in standing room at the San Francisco Opera.

I never had any of her recordings, but her pirate recordings were very sought after in her day.

Oh, and Gencer was the first soprano to sing the Donizetti Queens: *Anna Bolena*, *Maria Stuarda*, and *Roberto Devereux*. Not necessarily in the same season, nor the same theater, or even on purpose. But the first (all in Italy). The Donizetti Queens weren't even a thing then.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

a good lyric voice with an upper extension that became artificially darkened over time (though still strangely satisfying to listen to)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Leyla Gencer, also known as the Queen of the Pirates, due to her discography being heavily weighted with live recordings. She was competing with the world class sopranos Callas and Tebaldi in their heyday and later with the ones that followed, Caballe, Sutherland, Scotto, Freni, etc., never quite in the same class. The voice was serviceable, with a good timbre, with a lovely pianissimo, able to do coloratura not quite perfectly, but enough to pass.
> 
> She was able to imbue any part she sang with enough drama to satisfy the public. She was often in the second cast. Callas would open and do a run of 4-5 performances _la Turca_ would do the later performances, same with Tebaldi or any other singer of note. Even Stella. She made a decent try at San Francisco Opera, and maybe Chicago, but I don't think she did the Met.
> 
> ...


God, you write well!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I agree with MAS' excellent survey above. Unlike Olivero, Stella and Tucci I don't believe she ever made any studio recordings. I have listened to a few of her recordings and I would agree that she was cast B material. A poor man's Callas or Caballe just as Tucci was a poor man's Tebaldi. As to whether she was more emotionally involved than Caballe I think she sometimes was, but she was nowhere near as good as Caballe at her best. (Compare their Roberto Deveraux and Maria Stuarda recordings, Gencer was a better Anna Bolena, but it must be remembered that Caballe was ill when she performed it at La Scala.)

The few Gencer recordings I like are her Due Foscari with Guelfi and Picchi and her Trovatore on film with Del Monaco, Barbieri and Bastianini (also available on CD) and I much prefer her over Stella, who surprisingly for me managed to record for EMI when they had Callas, Schwarzkopf and De los Angeles on their roster!

Of these sopranos I would rate them thus:

Olivero
Tucci
Gencer
Stella

There were other sopranos on the Italian scene at around about the same time, but the only one who really does something for me is Carla Gavazzi, who I would rank above Gencer, but below Tucci. That said, I like both Gencer and Tucci in Trovatore and that is high praise as it's an opera I find difficult to listen to without Callas or Price in.

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

All of the above posts are true. Poor Leyla got short shrift thanks to the Callas/Tebaldi era.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Perhaps she would thrive in today's market as opposed to when there were so many first rate singers during her time. I have only one friend who likes opera and he won't explore this forum. His loss as there are so many savants on the subject of opera who lurk here LOL I sometimes get overly excited when I first discover a voice and rely on you lot to give me perspective.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Perhaps she would thrive in today's market as opposed to when there were so many first rate singers during her time. I have only one friend who likes opera and he won't explore this forum. His loss as there are so many savants on the subject of opera who lurk here LOL I sometimes get overly excited when I first discover a voice and rely on you lot to give me perspective.


I think Gencer would be a star if around today, she would be similar to Radvanovsky (they have similar rep). I'm not sure which I prefer and haven't listened enough to either.

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I think Gencer would be a star if around today, she would be similar to Radvanovsky (they have similar rep). I'm not sure which I prefer and haven't listened enough to either.
> 
> N.


The C: Very astute perception!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> I think Gencer would be a star if around today, she would be similar to Radvanovsky (they have similar rep). I'm not sure which I prefer and haven't listened enough to either.
> 
> N.


I've heard Radvanovsky live at the San Francisco Opera in *Il Trovatore* and *Norma*. She was better in *Il Trovatore*, well nigh perfect in fact, in voice, deportment and musicianship. Her duets with Hvorotovsky were the highlights of the evening, but her singing of _d'amor sull'alli rosee_ was fantastic and brought down the house; the voice luscious, ductile, spun out in beautiful tone, with feeling. That is also one of Gencer's best roles and the competition would be rough. I like Radvanovsky's voice better in these _spinto _ roles, it has more heft and freedom and an easy top for its size. Where Gencer scores is that she has more _italianità_ and more feeling for the language and _slancio_.

That said, they both fudge coloratura and trills, though Gencer does better - listen to both in _Coppia Iniqua_ from *Anna Bolena*, admittedly a harsh test!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> There were other sopranos on the Italian scene at around about the same time, but the only one who really does something for me is Carla Gavazzi, who I would rank above Gencer, but below Tucci. That said, I like both Gencer and Tucci in Trovatore and that is high praise as it's an opera I find difficult to listen to without Callas or Price in.
> 
> N.


Perhaps this is a stupid question, but have you listened to Clara Petrella? She was counted as one of the best in the 1940s and 50s. 
She was my first *Butterfly* and a beautiful voice and, like most Italians, sings off the words. I haven't really explored her career on records (the *Butterfly* was probably a Cetra production).

As to a Stella, I think she had the best voice, but was not a good technician- no trill, sketchy coloratura, unpropulsive singing. Kind of like a Maserati with a Fiat engine?


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

MAS said:


> I've heard Radvanovsky live at the San Francisco Opera in *Il Trovatore* and *Norma*. She was better in *Il Trovatore*, well nigh perfect in fact, in voice, deportment and musicianship. Her duets with Hvorotovsky were the highlights of the evening, but her singing of _d'amor sull'alli rosee_ was fantastic and brought down the house; the voice luscious, ductile, spun out in beautiful tone, with feeling. That is also one of Gencer's best roles and the competition would be rough. I like Radvanovsky's voice better in these _spinto _ roles, it has more heft and freedom and an easy top for its size. Where Gencer scores is that she has more _italianità_ and more feeling for the language and _slancio_.
> 
> That said, they both fudge coloratura and trills, though Gencer does better - listen to both in _Coppia Iniqua_ from *Anna Bolena*, admittedly a harsh test!


I am more impressed with Gencer than most of you it seems, unfortunately no record contract so we have only live recordings to go by, still today she has the best Tudor Queens triliogy (much better than Sills)

*Of the two videos above for Coppia Iniqua I will take Gencer vs Radvanovsky*.......Miss R has some strange florishes she adds and uses a shorter edited version (why cut the climatic aria?) and what in the world is that choked ending of final climax note, hopefully that was just some misguided stage direction, also got the feeling of of everything being slightly out of sync, not for me.....












> As to a Stella, I think she had the best voice, but was not a good technician- no trill, sketchy coloratura, unpropulsive singing.* Kind of like a Maserati with a Fiat engine?*


I may have to borrow that line someday , or use German variant "porsche with vw engine"


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Deleted post deleted post


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> I am more impressed with Gencer than most of you it seems, unfortunately no record contract so we have only live recordings to go by, still today she has the best Tudor Queens triliogy (much better than Sills)
> 
> *Of the two videos above for Coppia Iniqua I will take Gencer vs Radvanovsky*.......Miss R has some strange florishes she adds and uses a shorter edited version (why cut the climatic aria?) and what in the world is that choked ending of final climax note, hopefully that was just some misguided stage direction, also got the feeling of of everything being slightly out of sync, not for me.....
> 
> ...


I don't consider Beverly Sills the best representation of the Donizetti Queens.(I was talking trills) Her voice is totally wrong for them, too shallow, too one-color, however fluid her coloratura. It's a valiant effort, no more.

As for Gencer though I can't say I listened to a lot of her recordings, I noted that she sang frequently with RAI, the reason her roles are well preserved. Also, in listening to her last week, more than I have in 50 years, she seems to sing, _mezzo-forte_, _piano_, _pianissimo_ hardly ever singing _forte_ or _fortissimo_ or letting her voice fly.* Is that the reason she managed to sing all of the roles she sang, that would have been beyond her means otherwise, or endangered her voice?

I remember an *Aida* at the _Arena di Verona_, but not how she sang, but that she was riveted to the conductor, constantly looking sideways out of the corner of her eye (I didn't know it was Gencer until years later, and understood what she was doing). This is _apropos _ of nothing, mind you, just a memory.

*that is the Magda Olivero trick.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

MAS said:


> I don't consider Beverly Sills the best representation of the Donizetti Queens.(I was talking trills) Her voice is totally wrong for them, too shallow, too one-color, however fluid her coloratura. It's a valiant effort, no more.
> 
> As for Gencer though I can't say I listened to a lot of her recordings, I noted that she sang frequently with RAI, the reason her roles are well preserved. *Also, in listening to her last week, more than I have in 50 years, she seems to sing, mezzo-forte, piano, pianissimo hardly ever singing forte or fortissimo or letting her voice fly.** Is that the reason she managed to sing all of the roles she sang, that would have been beyond her means otherwise, or endangered her voice?
> 
> ...







MAS check the mad scence from live 67 Maria Stuarda with Verrett, two falcons in flight, listen to Gencers flying climax at 8:21 sustained for 6-7 seconds! Crowd applause at 6:17 with no stop in action etc etc.....


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> MAS check the mad scence from live 67 Maria Stuarda with Verrett, two falcons in flight, listen to Gencers flying climax at 8:21 sustained for 6-7 seconds! Crowd applause at 6:17 with no stop in action etc etc.....


Thanks, DA, I didn't know this video. Both are very impressive, indeed!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I had a month or so, when I prefered her Norma to Callas. What a hereticism, isn't it ? The sexy dark voice of her Pollione Bruno Prevedi didn't hurt either.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

She was a decent singer but even by the early 60s I find her voice a little uncomfortable to listen to, it has a sort of pushed hollowness that reminds me of Martha Modl a little bit.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

As an amateur, I do not notice many things, or they don't matter. I just feel like Norma should be a mezzo, she is too dark and complicated character to be a soprano. Gencer started as a mezzo (or I guess so, it was written somewhere) and somehow still sounded like a mezzo after she became a soprano.

(Yes, I know at Bellini's time, mezzos did not exist, Pasta was a soprano sfogato and so was Callas etc. Still, it is nice to have Gencer recorded as Norma).

Edit: With Gencer, Norma sounds like an operatic villain, to which I am accustomed from some other operas. I like to have this option.

Callas is unusual, eventually better, but I need more Normas in my life, and Gencer is very interesting.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I saw a video of Aida with her, Fiorenza Cossotto and Carlo Bergonzi from Arena di Verona. They sang well for my inexperienced taste. And Egyptian kitsch was funny.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> As an amateur, I do not notice many things, or they don't matter. I just feel like Norma should be a mezzo, she is too dark and complicated character to be a soprano. Gencer started as a mezzo (or I guess so, it was written somewhere) and somehow still sounded like a mezzo after she became a soprano.
> 
> (Yes, I know at Bellini's time, mezzos did not exist, Pasta was a soprano sfogato and so was Callas etc. Still, it is nice to have Gencer recorded as Norma).
> 
> ...


Sutherland recorded it later in her career and her lower and middle voice had gotten bigger and richer and it added an extra dimension to her performance. Her acting also greatly improved and is really quite wonderful in this production: 



 Caballe recorded a lot of Rossini mezzo arias and is comfortable in those ranges. I urge you to watch Caballe's L'Orange Norma. Many think it is the greatest video Norma out there. Her Casta Diva from there is like she was taken over by an angel, and many feel that way. She has another full opera on Youtube but not this one but you can see many scenes from L'Orange including this Casta Diva I discussed;


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sutherland recorded it later in her career and her lower and middle voice had gotten bigger and richer and it added an extra dimension to her performance. Her acting also greatly improved and is really quite wonderful in this production:
> 
> 
> 
> Caballe recorded a lot of Rossini mezzo arias and is comfortable in those ranges. I urge you to watch Caballe's L'Orange Norma. Many think it is the greatest video Norma out there. Her Casta Diva from there is like she was taken over by an angel, and many feel that way. She has another full opera on Youtube but not this one but you can see many scenes from L'Orange including this Casta Diva I discussed;


I know the Orange performance, that is like Norma.01 curriculum :-D . As well as Sutherland. Of course I like them too.

(Not that I know all of Opera.01 classics. But I am obsessed by Norma :-D )


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sutherland recorded it later in her career and her lower and middle voice had gotten bigger and richer and it added an extra dimension to her performance. Her acting also greatly improved and is really quite wonderful in this production:
> 
> 
> 
> Caballe recorded a lot of Rossini mezzo arias and is comfortable in those ranges. I urge you to watch Caballe's L'Orange Norma. Many think it is the greatest video Norma out there. Her Casta Diva from there is like she was taken over by an angel, and many feel that way. She has another full opera on Youtube but not this one but you can see many scenes from L'Orange including this Casta Diva I discussed;


Very good choices.

I totally agree with you about Sutherland and those are exactly the qualities that she displays in her second studio recording. This one also has Caballe's Adalgisa - so two divas for the price of one. (And if you include Pavarotti in the diva class, then it's three for one!)

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Very good choices.
> 
> I totally agree with you about Sutherland and those are exactly the qualities that she displays in her second studio recording. This one also has Caballe's Adalgisa - so two divas for the price of one. (And if you include Pavarotti in the diva class, then it's three for one!)
> 
> N.


Our next round of drinks are on me.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Facebook showed me a blog about Leyla Gencer. 3 days ago would have been her birthday:








A few words about Leyla Gencer


Born 10 October 1928 in Polonezköv, a small town close to Istanbul, Leyla Gencer had – just like Maria Callas – a cult status, even today, but on a smaller scale. She had a Turkish fath…




basiaconfuoco.com





"Leyla Gencer had – just like Maria Callas – a cult status, even today, but on a smaller scale."
- Yay, very reasonable of those people who do her cult !

"She had a Turkish father and a Polish mother, "
- a nice mixing of diverse genes, that's why she looked beautiful 

"...which made her proficient in that language. There is even a pirate recording of her with songs by Chopin in Polish "


Spoiler: Click here for Gencer singing Chopin











"Her round and clear voice – with the famous pianissimi, which only Montserrat Caballé could match – is so beautiful that it hurts. If you have never heard of her before, listen below to ‘La vergine degli angeli’ from La forza del Destino, recorded in 1957"
- I am in no mood for La Forza, but tell me if you listen to it


Spoiler: Click here for Genyer singing the aria from La Forza del Destino











She also revived some forgotten operas and I will enter her into the revivals' thread when I get to it.


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