# Mariss Jansons Edition—The Review Thread



## Knorf

My rather wonderful wife gave to me for Christmas this box set, "Mariss Jansons The Edition," a large collection of recordings Jansons made with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and Choir. It includes complete cycles of Beethoven, Brahms, and Mahler symphonies, and many other wonderful things, many of which appear in this edition for the first time.

Over the coming weeks, I propose to follow MatthewWeflen's example and write a mini-review of each, more or less in order. I reserve the right to skip around!

Open discussion is encouraged. (I only ask you not be a knob, and not only post to this thread to write something akin to "hur hur Jansons is teh suxors.")










Contents:


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## Knorf

Well, I said I might skip around, and today I'm starting totally out of order.

*CD 32*
*Gustav Mahler*: Symphony No. 4 in G major
Miah Persson, soprano
Recorded from live concerts 15-17 December, 2010; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, this edition

Initial thoughts: I've previously heard Jansons's Mahler 4 with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, as well as the First and Eighth with that ensemble, all of which I found to be excellent.

This Fourth is even better than that with the RCO! It's just as thoughtful and highly detailed-probably a good generalization for everything Mariss Jansons did. But here the ebb and flow of the drama of the musical argument comes across even more effortlessly, devoid of affectation or odd mannerisms, with an entirely natural musical feeling that is highly absorbing. As familiar as I am with this music, there are innumerable details Jansons finds I've never heard before.

The orchestra is spectacular, still one of the greatest in Europe, and remarkably retains really a lot of the special orchestral color and feeling that this ensemble brought to Raphael Kubelík's terrific Mahler from fifty years ago.

The recording is audiophile quality: warm, natural, and as beautifully clear and detailed as the interpretation. Side note: I find it gratifying that the contrabassoon part here is more audible than usual (but not unnaturally so; it sounds like Jansons asked the player to play out. Yes, please!)

Miah Persson in the fourth movement soprano solo is expected to bring great character, virtuosity, and yet a childlike affect, and does. Her tone and pitch are outstanding.

In short, this is one of the finest Mahler Fourths I've ever heard. It is superb.


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## Kiki

IMO in general Mariss Jansons' latter recordings (usually with the BRSO) tend to be more efficient and more refined than his earlier recordings (with Oslo or RCO), but this is a generalisation that is only true in relative terms, as his earlier recordings are by no means inefficient/unrefined.

The sonics of his BRSO recordings also tend to be more focused (highlighted) than his RCO recordings which are in general warmer (murkier). Give and take. Nothing is perfect. In general, I do think these BRSO recordings are very good.

I am very happy for you to have got this box. I am feeling a bit disappointed that some of these "first releases" have not been made available individually. Therefore I have nothing to say to you about this BRSO M4 "first release". I ain't got no nothing to say to you, Knorf! Nothing! :lol:

What's next? Symphonic Dances?


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## CnC Bartok

I think your good lady wife needs referring to his holiness in Rome, sainthood is on its way! Mine bought me a bloody expensive drone; I'm absolutely thrilled (possibly the first time she has acknowledged the big kid in me, in 26 years of marriage) but petrified of making the first step/first flight....

I recently got the Bruckner symphony recordings in your big box. Love them, beautifully recorded, and a fine flow to each and every one. You mention detail in hiis Mahler 4, expect similar in his Bruckner. Sort of reminds me of the kind of balance, bringing out the details, that Kubelik always seemed to manage, with this orchestra, and with others.

I expect that box will keep you occupied for many years to come. Such a sad loss, Jansons.

PS. Miah Persson is the soloist in Ivan Fischer's recent Mahler 4th. Similar qualities to the ones you highlighted, although I am an even bigger fan of big brother Adam's Dusseldorf recording of the same.


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## Triplets

I’ll be the dissenter here. M.J. recordings tend to feature beautiful playing and staid, boring interpretations.I bailed on him a few years ago. I met him personally once, he seemed very nice, and he definitely cultivated a pretty sound, but nothing he produced after the year 2000 or so ever made it to my list of “must have”


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## Knorf

*CD 1*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 1 in C major, Op. 21
*Johannes Maria Staud*: _Maniai_ for orchestra
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 2 in D major, Op. 36
*Misato Mochizuki*: _Nirai_ for orchestra 
Beethoven recorded live on 27 November, 2012; Suntory Hall, Tokyo
Staud and Mochizuki recorded live on 9--10 February, 2012 and 8-9 November, 2012; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2013

Jansons's Beethoven cycle has been out in the world for the better part of a decade, received numerous accolades, and of course also spurred on the corresponding nay-sayers (it is absolutely not possible to have so great a Beethoven symphony cycle thay there will be no detractors). A professional conductor friend of mine, whose tastes I trust, considers this to be the greatest recent modern cycle. I'm not sure I quite agree with that, at least not yet, but these are indeed exceptional performances. They're also stunningly well recorded, as usual for BR Klassik!

The Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks is one of the finest orchestras in the world, and that's salient immediately: the quality of playing is extremely high. Every musician is united in sound and expression, and this makes for quite a marvelous effect. From this standpoint by itself-sheer fantastic orchestral execution-these performances stand out indeed as some of the greatest I've ever heard.

Beethoven's First and Second Symphonies are very important to me; I hear them as corner stones for the whole cycle. As interpretations go, here, they're mainstream: big band with just enough influence from the historically-informed sector that there's nothing interpretatively in either that will raise anyone's eyebrows. Some will infer that this means these are "dull" performances, but that could not be further from the truth! These are very exciting and highly detailed. Indeed it's those details that make all the difference: so many felicitous moments, with such fun in the music making, that to my ears nothing ever sounds fussy.

I think this is what has changed the most for the better in Jansons's musical direction: the attention to detail which at times in the past could sound fussy, losing the forest for the trees, as it were. Not so here; everything flows very naturally and unaffectedly in my opinion. Remarkably, Jansons catches my ear with many little details I've never noticed before-despite innumerable hundreds of times listening, studying, and performing these scores-and does so without distracting from the overall dramatic, musical trajectory.

Judging from the First and Second Symphonies, then (and the Third which I listened to yesterday but will review later), it seems likely there's absolutely no reason this cycle shouldn't please many. Listeners who prefer something far more idiosyncratic should stick with Furtwängler, or Celibidache, or whatever. For what it is, a HIP-inspired modern orchestra, so far these performances are competitive with anything out there.

Jansons's Beethoven cycle comes with several modern pieces, I presumed explicitly composed to accompany Beethoven on a program. For this I now rather regret having no program notes; precisely how the Staud and Mochizuki are related to Beethoven was initially opaque to me. But maybe that's ok. Anyway, I did find program notes online, via the works' publishers.

The Staud strikes me as rather Boulezian. _"Maniai"_ refers to the Furies from Greek myth. It's dynamic music, highly rhythmic, richly orchestrated, thickly layered, and colored with subtle use of quarter tones and extended techniques. It held my interest through its poetic and quiet ending. It was commissioned explicitly to follow the First Symphony on a program, but it certainly doesn't sound like it has to.

_"Nirai"_ by Mochizuki is subtitled "intermezzo to Beethoven's Symphonies Nos. 2 & 6." This work's connectedness to Beethoven is slightly more obvious, but only slightly. Translating from the German program note that I found, "_Nirai_ describes an imaginary land, a paradise." It's an intriguing piece, sort of part Takemitsu and part Rihm, but distinctive from either, and again has a quiet, somewhat enigmatic ending. In his note, Mochizuki talks about fugues and gnarled tree roots from Okinawa. I'll likely return to it more often than Staud.

As for "must have"? So far, for me, that Mahler 4 is must have. This disc of Beethoven 1 & 2, plus modern pieces? If someone said so, I wouldn't say they were bonkers.

I've also sampled several other discs from the box, and they're consistently terrific. Reviews to come.


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## Knorf

*CD 2*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 55 "Eroica"
*Rodion Shchedrin*: _Beethovens Heiligenstädter Testament_ "Symphonic Fragment for Orchestra"
Beethoven recorded live on 18-19 October, 2012; Herkulessaal der Residenz, München
Shchendrin recorded live on 18-19 December, 2008; Philharmonie im Gasteig, München
First release, 2013

While this performance of Beethoven's Third has most of the qualities I enjoyed so much in the First and Second, I'm very slightly less enthusiastic about it. It's highly detailed, dynamic, exciting, thoughtfully considered, numerous wonderful moments, outstanding orchestral execution, etc.

But there are also moments where syncopations are slightly too soft-edged for my taste (mainly in the first movement), and dont "pop", and there are a few places where Jansons added some extreme dynamics (typically, pianissimo subito) that at this moment strike me as unnecessary, even slightly affected. The feeling for me at the end of the first movement was impressed appreciation, even satisfaction. But was I as thrilled as with the First and Second?

Having said all that, the Marcia funebre is really great! It's very atmospheric and dramatic, with a profound pathos, yearning or simply grieving, in every bar. It is this movement that has stuck in my head the most. It is a great accomplishment. The intensity of it all is very effective, from the loud outbursts to some of the most rapt and dramatic soft playing I've ever heard.

The Scherzo is truly very good, albeit actually not quite among the most thrilling I've heard, oddly so despite the huge dynamic contrasts. The treacherous horn soli bits in the Trio come off well.

And the finale is also excellent, despite a couple weird dynamics; Jansons does well especially in holding interest through the more conventional first several variations, and highlighting the structural and harmonic weirdness (in Classical terms) of the variations that follow. Quite a lot of this is truly superb. But then it's not quite among the most thrilling codas I've ever heard.

All in all, very good, even very, very good, but probably not exceptional. It might be fair to criticize my criticism as a bit of caviling over minor details. But the bar for a truly great Eroica symphony is very high, and at least, that's how I feel about this recording while writing here right now. It's also possible I'm looking for things wrong with it so I don't continue in quite the same effusive vein as I started, for credibility's sake.

Regardless, I'm sure I'll return this recording from time to time, at least for the second movement.

In keeping with theme of Beethoven symphonies with reflections, there is a composition by the well-known Russian composer Rodion Shchedrin to accompany the Eroica, with at least a title obviously about Beethoven. This piece has become a proven success in the concert hall, adopting the dark struggle implicit in Beethoven's "Heiligenstädt Testament" into formal musical terms and making use of Beethovenian motifs, albeit non-obvious to most listeners, and reimagined in very different harmonic contexts. It's a darkly dramatic piece, and ends on a note of defiance, with a fade out, as if the artist has left the building. I'll likely return for future additional listens.


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## Kiki

Glad to read that you like Jansons' Beethoven, Knorf. Among recent, traditional cycles, this is one of my favourites. I agree with your assessment. I think sensitivity is the key here, supplemented by great ensemble and some obsessive pianissimo. Personally I prefer hardcore HIP these days, but I still find this set highly enjoyable.


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## Mathias Broucek

I agree with the positive words for the Beethoven and I too have the Bruckner discs which are excellent, particularly the 8th

But you should rush to the Rachmainov Bells which I have on at the moment. This is a truly exceptional piece of music-making....


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## Knorf

*CD 3*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphonies No. 4 in B-flat major, Op. 60 and No. 5 in C minor, Op. 67
*Raminta Šerkšnytė*: _Fires_
Beethoven recorded live on 26-27 November, 2012; Suntory Hall, Tokyo
Šerkšnytė recorded live on 17-18 May, 2012; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2013

Wow! Right out of the gate, this is a truly superb Beethoven Fourth Symphony. I'm blown away. Darkly atmospheric in the opening of the first movement (aided by a slightly more-present-than-usual second horn, which I love), then leeping and athletic but also with a twinkle of humor. The second movement is deliciously songful, lyrical and Romantic in the best sense, with just a hint of ache from undisclosed painful memory. It's simply wonderful! After such success with the first half of this symphony, you'd be right to expect the rest won't disappoint, and it does not.

There are very few other Fourths I'd put on par with this one (Kleiber and Skrowaczewski come to mind), but none that I prefer over it. Yes, it's _that_ good. Also, as usual for BR Klassik and the BRSO, the recorded sound and quality of orchestral playing are sensational.

I recently listened to Manfred Honeck's Beethoven Fifth, and I think I'm very slightly more taken with that one than this. But Jansons's is very, very good, make no mistake, and if someone told me they preferred it, I certainly wouldn't say they're bonkers. Either are reasonably competitive with any of the finest Fifths out there, and that's saying something.

After an electric first movement, one albeit slightly straight-forward, it's in the second movement where Jansons's conducting again really shines. It's very thoughtful and dramatic, but always singing, never forgetting the underlying pathos. Shakespearean, perhaps. The consistent "Andante con moto" tempo helps: never dragging, yet remaining supple. The contrasting moods of the Scherzo are handled effectively, and the transition to the finale as epic and full of frisson as anyone could ask for. Then, the finale is among the 
most joyful I know, again full of thoughtful and exciting details, all of which feel effortless and wholly natural. However! Compared to Honeck, the coda comes across a smidge risk-averse.

In short, the Beethoven on this disc is a triumph. Its only the slightly staid passages of the first movement and the slightly risk-averse coda to the last movement of the Fifth where I might take off a couple decimal points.

I suspect many listeners will just skip the modern works on these discs, but that's a mistake, in my opinion. This work, _Fires_ by Lithuanian composer Raminta Šerkšnytė is terrific. The "Misterioso" first movement presents tantalizing fragments of color and energy that slowly build to an imposing, monolithic climax. There are haunting echoes. Then, the second movement, "Con brio" bursts forward like a collapsing glacial dam, releasing a torrent of orchestral gesture and color, the sort of thing thing would be insanely dangerous to get caught in, but is spectacular when viewed from a safe distance.

In her program, note, Šerkšnytė refers to the "distant perception of the approaching calamity to thunderous explosions of the accumulated energy." N.B. I read this after I thought of my glacial dam metaphor. The piece is about fire, hence "con brio" and the very cleverly disguised quotes from Beethoven's Fifth. But she also mentions the piece belonging to a "series of orchestral works, whose titles directly refer to the natural phenomena and elemental forces," so I don't think I was so far off.

Maybe I'm thinking so much about ice and glaciers because it's forking freezing outside!


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## Knorf

Going a bit out of order to accommodate requests and also take a tiny break from Beethoven.

*CD 40*
*Sergei Rachmaninov*: _The Bells_, Op. 35; Symphonic Dances, Op. 45
Tatiana Pavlovskaya, soprano; Oleg Dolgov, tenor; Alexey Markov, baritone
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Peter Dijkstra, chorus master
_The Bells_ recorded live on 14-15 January 2016; Symphonic Dances recorded live on 26-27 January 2017; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2018

First I should mention that I haven't taken anything close to a broad overview of competitive recordings of this repertoire. It's not that I don't love it! But I've heard more Beethoven symphony recordings than I can count, and just a handful of Rachmaninov's _The Bells_ and Symphonic Dances. However, this does include some of the most recommended usual suspects (which I'm not going to list, lest someone grouse about how Pispott Q. Jakhasz with the Podunkton Symphony Radio Philharmonic in 1934 makes everything I just listed sound stupid and terrible.) Also, I've performed both pieces with a professional orchestra and studied the score to _The Bells_.

So I'm confident in being able to say these are excellent performances, full of the atmosphere, authenticity, detail, and excitement one expects, not to mention top-shelf performances of that superb orchestra and choir. It's very difficult to imagine anyone being displeased with these recordings, excepting the past experience that tells me there's always _someone_. You know. That guy.

But also Jansons rightfully has a very strong reputation in Rachmaninov, and if it were me, I'd use precisely this disc as supporting evidence.

Part of what helps is the degree to which Jansons and this orchestra sound like they relish Rachmaninov's distinctive orchestration, and strive to get maximal expression of out every detail. I could say the same for the excellent soloists. The choral contributions are certainly well beyond reproach. I'm starting to feel excited about the performances of Mahler's choral symphonies!

(Spoiler alert: I've actually already listened to the Mahler Second, and it's astounding! Review to come.)


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## Knorf

*CD 4*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 6 in F major, Op. 68 "Pastorale"
*Giya Kancheli*: _Dixi_ for mixed chorus and orchestra
Priska Eser, soprano; Gabriele Weinfurter, alto
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Michael Gläser, chorus master
Beethoven recorded live 8-9 November 2012; Kancheli recorded live 29-30 October 2009; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2013

Most of the comments about the previous Beethoven symphonies in this cycle apply here to the "Pastorale." Abundant felicitous detail, superb playing, remarkably authentic and natural feeling, a wonderful lyricism that never loses melodic direction, etc.

It's is an interpretation more on the warm, _Gemütlichkeit_ side, than joyous and exuberant; more comforting than sheerly delightful. There's nothing wrong with this (obviously!), but my absolute favorite performances tend more towards the latter. And, in any case, this approach pays off very well in the second and fifth movements! But I've heard more exuberant, i.e, "_lustige_", peasant folk, not that this is in any way disappointing; we're talking about very thin margins. Fortunately, the "Storm" is suitably frightening and thrilling; those big dynamic contrasts that struck me as a little weird in the Third are utilized effectively here.

All in all: an excellent, but probably not truly exceptional, Sixth. And yet, I might return to it often, for all the mellifluous details.

Georgian composer Giya Kancheli's _Dixi_ was composed on commission as a response to Beethoven's Ninth. About this, the composer wrote, despite the notable progress civilization has made, that we are still facing "age-old problems," and "the gap between good and evil continues to grow." I'm not sure what to make of that last phrase: when wasn't there a gap between good and evil? Before humans, I suppose. Is it growing? What does that mean? Maybe it means that evil is making more money nowadays. Or is it gaiming the upper hand? Unclear.

Anyway, the piece sets a variety of apparently arbitrary short Latin texts from various sources; I'm not quite sure what to make of that, either. "_Mortuos plango_", "_Stabat mater dolorosa_", "_Omnes una manet nox_", "_Ad infinitum_", "_Et feci_"...for several examples. I guess, we're dealing with a battle between the sacred, the learned, and the profane (the way "et feci" is used suggests a pun in Italian).

As for the music, well, it's rather bombastic, even a little banal, alternating with saccharine. Frankly, for me, it's a disappointment compared to some of the other specially-commissioned works accompanying these Beethoven symphony recordings, especially Šerkšnytė and Mochizuki. Jansons and this orchestra and choir perform with the same care and investment as Beethoven's Ninth, as they should. But I don't see myself returning often to this piece.


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## Merl

When I've talked about this cycle in Beethoven threads, I stated that I enjoyed it a great deal too, Knorf (but I've never reviewed it because Granate originally did - he didn't rate it too highly). I particularly like the 4th and 6th in that set. The only 'negative' (and it's not really a negative, tbh) I had was that it's a bit too much on the lyrical side (I originally commented that it's "beautifully played....but could do with more clout"). Listening again this morning, to random samples from the HD I probably feel the same but that's just me and I do like a punchier aporoach. It's certainly a fine cycle and one which slipped under the radar because a) it was too expensive when released B) was poorly promoted c) Jansons seemed to be out with the in-crowd at the time. I'm glad you're enjoying it so much, Knorf. Jansons has had short shrift in recent years and his Mahler, in particular, is very underrated, IMO.


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## Kiki

About Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances -

No, no, no, Knorf, it's the legendary generalprobe recording made by the legendary conductor Fruitbandana in 1873 on 17 prototype Edison cylinders that is the one and truly legendary performance! You can't dispute that! :lol:

Seriously... Mariss Jansons' Bavarian Symphonic Dances is one of my favourite records. IMO all three of his commercial recordings are similar in interpretation - subtly accentuated with controlled aggression at ease (for my lack of vocabulary). On the other hand, the differences in acoustics, recorded sound and orchestral playing make them all unique and indispensable (for me).

The live Bavarian recording has a studio-like quality, that tends to highlight individual instruments (closely miked multi-track?), whcih I think is generally true for most of his Bavarian recordings. But the most striking thing is the crisp and loud bass line, that is not as prominent in his two earlier recordings. I can hear every note that the cellos play, doctor, I am in tears!

The recorded sound of the live Concertgebouw recording is more laid-back, but the orchestral playing sounds to my musically illiterate ears a little bit more virtuosic. Just a little bit. Whereas the sonics of the earliest St. Petersburg recording sounds more middle-of-the-road, while it has the unique and sexy (!) St. Petersburg brass/woodwinds. 

I would not want to part with any of these three.

BTW he let the tamtam ring out at the end. Guilty? Naughty? Pragmatic? Crowd-pleaser? I don't know, but I like it. :lol:


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## Knorf

Kiki said:


> BTW he let the tamtam ring out at the end. Guilty? Naughty? Pragmatic? Crowd-pleaser? I don't know, but I like it. :lol:


I contemplated commenting on this, but it's not the first time I've heard it this way, and I've been in an orchestra that did this as well. Anyway, I also like it. Let's wait and see what happens with the tam-tam in _Francesca da Rimini_...


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## Knorf

*CD 5*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 7 in A major, Op. 92
*Jörg Widmann*: _Con brio_ "Concert Overture for Orchestra"
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 8 in F major, Op. 93
Beethoven recorded live 30 November and 1 December, 2012; Suntory Hall, Tokyo
Widmann recorded live 25-26 September, 2008; Philharmonie im Gasteig, München
First release, 2013

After one of the most impressive introductions I've ever heard-such gorgeous wind playing!-what follows is simply one of the finest Beethoven Sevenths I know. The precision of rhythm, the wonderfully subtle ebb and flow, the heightened contrasts of light and dark: wow. No, it's not the "punchiest" first movement I know, either (for example Honeck); it's more elegant and joyful. But it's still plenty punchy, and it works for me!

This performance certainly doesn't disappoint after the first movement. Based on the other slow movements of earlier symphonies, I expected the second movement to be superb, full of atmosphere and wonderfully hushed pianissimos, and it is. The tempo is on the slow side, dangerously so for the printed "Allegretto," and a metronome marking where the quarter note (crotchet) of this movement is marked _faster_ than the last movement half note (minim). But it's always forward moving in feeling, never dragging, and while it's not my preferred tempo, it's all so gorgeous and compelling that I enjoyed it thoroughly! Again, the details that Jansons brings out pay dividends.

The Scherzo and Finale are also excellent. Jansons favors more of a sense of dancing than aggressive driving in either, but it's a valid interpretation and totally effective for me. The details are all there, the orchestra sounds fabulous; Jansons simply highlights joyful exuberance over obsession.

Jörg Widmann's _Con brio_ uses the same orchestra complement as Beethoven's Seventh and Eighth Symphonies, and, among the modern commissions included with the symphonies, is the most clearly indebted to using very audible motifs and colors directly from Beethoven. However, these motifs are amusingly thrown into a kind of musical blender, one probably set to purée but stopped before it was quite done. It's a piece full of humor and clever juxtapositions, an entertaining collage made from gooey fragments of near-quotes.

Then comes Beethoven's Eighth, one of my favorites. Even if you aren't terribly enamored of Jansons's approach to these symphonies, you'd have to fairly admit the approach is consistently applied. But I myself _am_ enamored of his approach, so I'm definitely convinced now that this is a Beethoven symphony cycle I'll be revisiting often, one that I don't have any qualms at all about recommending. In fact, there are numerous oft-recommended Beethoven cycles I'd rank below this one, if I cared about rankings.

ETA: I should mention that Jansons treats the third movement of the Eighth as a genuine minuet, in keeping with its marking "Tempo di Menuetto," meaning it's more graceful and slower than many (however, it's close to the metronome marking Beethoven provided, oddly for a change one slightly slower than it's often played). Again, it all works for me, especially in the Trio where it comes across a lot like a Ländler. My only small qualm is that the last movement is a bit slower than my preference, but it's still plenty "Vivace."


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## Knorf

*CD 6*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125
Christiane Karg, Mihoko Fujimura, Michael Schade, Michael Volle
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Peter Dijkstra, chorus master
Recorded live 1 December, 2012; Suntory Hall, Tokyo
First release: 2013

Again, Jansons is terrific with atmosphere. The protean opening is effectively realized, and what follows is propulsive and muscular. Plenty of punch, here. Yet I find many of the quieter sections driven by woodwind solos and section counterpoint to be even more compelling in this performance. They're so interesting!

Also, as is clearly usual with Jansons, my ear gathers innumerable interesting new details, the effect of which for me is to heighten the sense of mystery. That is, no matter how well you think you know this music, no matter how many recordings you've heard (for me, _many_) nor how many performances you've been part of (more than a few), there is always something new to discover. Pierre Boulez talked about his joy of music as being art "where mystery remains eternal," and I have to say I've not heard this idea more compellingly realized in the first movement than in this performance. Bravo, Mariss Jansons and the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks! Mystery indeed remains eternal.

The "Molto vivace," as with other scherzos from the Jansons cycle, is again very slightly slower than most recent recordings of Beethoven symphonies. This is especially as compared to those of the Historically Informed Practice persuasion, which are often faster than the actual marking. But the question is, given this choice, what does Jansons do with it? There are more immediately explosive performances out there for sure. But this one isn't actually less satisfying for overall drama, in my opinion, especially as it gathers intensity, and I find myself unusually drawn in nonetheless. It's thoughtful, and more interested in melodic direction and poise, balancing that way rather than towards purely rhythmic excitement, except at the end. Again, this is perhaps not not my usual preference, but remains entirely valid nevertheless. I'm not at all dissatisfied especially because the playing is so very, very good. The coda is suitably defiant and emphatic.

A certain kind of crass reviewer has dismissed the Ninth's third movement with canards about how "no one cares" and "everyone is just waiting for the last movement." This would be the perfect recording to rebut such nonsense. It's as loving and thoughtful as any I know. Again slightly on the slow side (but not as slow as many), the detailed attention to melodic direction and a natural sense of ebb and flow, always _cantabile_, are what make this movement soar. It helps that all of the painfully long woodwind lines-clarinet and bassoons are left gasping after this movement-sound effortlessly sustained and beautiful. It's all very satisfying music-making.

In the introduction to the fourth movement, Jansons emphasizes the dissonance, but isn't on the quick side. Neither are the celli/bass recitatives; they're pretty traditionally ruminative. The hushed first statement of the "Ode to Joy" tune is marvelous. And what follows is what everyone looks for from Beethoven's Ninth. We all know what to expect, and it happens as expected. The soloists are excellent. The playing is truly superb, especially the trumpets. The interpretation is as always highly detailed; Jansons is patient with structure, but thoughtful about when to really let loose. After all, ecstasy is so much better when you wait for it! And Jansons does let loose. I am left very well satisfied, even elated. This is a Beethoven Ninth I will think about for a long time! On balance, a genuinely great Ninth.

N.B. This is the Ninth released in the complete cycle, but there is another, live from Rome, from 2007. I'll review that one tomorrow.


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## Kiki

Knorf said:


> N.B. This is the Ninth released in the complete cycle, but there is another, live from Rome, from 2007. I'll review that one tomorrow.


The Jansons Beethoven set that people here usually refer to is the one that includes the "Reflections" pieces.

The set I have does not include the "Reflections". I bought this set because it came out in Japan months before the set that includes the "Reflections" which I believe is available worldwide.

I previously thought the symphonies included in both sets were exactly the same recordings.

Not true.

Only two recordings #3 & #6 are shared by both sets! Therefore, whatever comments I have made about the Jansons Beethoven set in the past, I was talking mostly about different recordings! Hahaha!


















Without "Reflections"With "Reflections"#12012-02-09,10 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#22007-03-01,02 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#32012-10-18,19 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-10-18,19 Herkulessaal, Munich#42012-05-17,18 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-26 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#52012-05-17,18 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#62012-11-08,09 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-08,09 Herkulessaal, Munich#72008-09-25,26 Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich2012-11-30 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#82008-09-25,26 Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich2012-12-01 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#92007-10-26,27 Aula Paolo VI, Vatican2012-12-01 Suntory Hall, Tokyo

It seems that the BR Klassik Mariss Jansons edition includes only the "Reflections" symphony recordings + the Vatican #9, but not the other recordings from the Non-"Reflections" set.

Here we go again. This kind of things happens all the time. Just like DG's various incarnations of their Karajan editions, which never included ALL the Karajan recordings that DG has ever released.

--

And to further complicate things - the complete symphonies from the Tokyo tour (i.e. including the Tokyo #3 & #6 which BR Klassik never did) are available from a 4-bluray/DVD set from NHK. Lovely!

Now I feel very relieved that I do not collect Mariss Jansons recordings.


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## Merl

Kiki said:


> The Jansons Beethoven set that people here usually refer to is the one that includes the "Reflections" pieces.
> 
> The set I have does not include the "Reflections". I bought this set because it came out in Japan months before the set that includes the "Reflections" which I believe is available worldwide.
> 
> I previously thought the symphonies included in both sets were exactly the same recordings.
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Only two recordings #3 & #6 are shared by both sets! Therefore, whatever comments I have made about the Jansons Beethoven set in the past, I was talking mostly about different recordings! Hahaha!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without "Reflections"With "Reflections"#12012-02-09,10 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#22007-03-01,02 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#32012-10-18,19 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-10-18,19 Herkulessaal, Munich#42012-05-17,18 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-26 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#52012-05-17,18 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-27 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#62012-11-08,09 Herkulessaal, Munich2012-11-08,09 Herkulessaal, Munich#72008-09-25,26 Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich2012-11-30 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#82008-09-25,26 Philharmonie im Gasteig, Munich2012-12-01 Suntory Hall, Tokyo#92007-10-26,27 Aula Paolo VI, Vatican2012-12-01 Suntory Hall, Tokyo
> 
> It seems that the BR Klassik Mariss Jansons edition includes only the "Reflections" symphony recordings + the Vatican #9, but not the other recordings from the Non-"Reflections" set.
> 
> Here we go again. This kind of things happens all the time. Just like DG's various incarnations of their Karajan editions, which never included ALL the Karajan recordings that DG has ever released.
> 
> --
> 
> And to further complicate things - the complete symphonies from the Tokyo tour (i.e. including the Tokyo #3 & #6 which BR Klassik never did) are available from a 4-bluray/DVD set from NHK. Lovely!
> 
> Now I feel very relieved that I do not collect Mariss Jansons recordings.


Wow I didn't realise that. How confusing!


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## Knorf

That's very interesting. I will say I had noticed that the performances I was slightly more enthusiastic about came from those recorded in Tokyo! All of them were live, but, as sometimes happens, the later performances on tour were those that really hit the fullest bloom.

As for whether this is a "must have" set, I don't know. With _so many_ great choices, is Jansons's on the "must have" list? Are any truly "must have"? I will say this, there are plenty of cycles on those "must have" lists that I like less than Jansons overall.

Is it a "great" cycle? For me, unquestionably yes. It is clearly competitive with any of my own favorite cycles, so much so, that the scrutiny required to separate them comes down to minutiae. If I compare Jansons with only those cycles on modern instruments, in particular, I think it clearly stands shoulder to shoulder with any of the greats.

Does it offer a clearly valid, consistent, and compelling point of view about these symphonies? Check.
Does it include terrific playing by the musicians? Check.
Does it offer at least something to distinguish it from other comparable cycles? Check.

Jansons as described by others here and me is just a bit more on the lyrical side of Beethoven symphonies than is typically the case with recent modern performances, even excluding HIP cycles. And clearly it's a valid point of view. His tempi consistently are slightly slower than recent trends as well, avoiding anything like a headlong rush. Nonetheless, the excitement and delight in this music are always there, with plenty of moments of frisson for me, even while I was scrutinizing the performances for these reviews.

The playing is indisputably terrific at all times. There is never anything to disqualify a recommendation, either in performances or conducting.

The innumerable details Jansons brings have revealed something new to me-despite decades of listening to, studying, and performing these symphonies-in every single performance. His exact place on the "Romantic"-HIP continuum is also uniquely his.

Conclusion: so, yes. This is a great Beethoven cycle.


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## Kiki

Merl said:


> Wow I didn't realise that. How confusing!


Blimey! I just realised that, the Tokyo set, apart from being available from NHK, is also available from Arthaus which Presto is currently offering a discount! If it were only available from NHK, I wouldn't consider it at all because Japanese labels are always outrageously expensive... No no I don't collect Mariss Jansons, so I should continue to resist.


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## Kiki

Knorf said:


> That's very interesting. I will say I had noticed that the performances I was slightly more enthusiastic about came from those recorded in Tokyo! All of them were live, but, as sometimes happens, the later performances on tour were those that really hit the fullest bloom.
> ...


Another interesting thing is that, for those earlier recordings from the non-"Reflections" set, every symphony was recorded over 2 days. That means each symphony is either a blend of 2 concerts, or concert(s)+patch-up. Whereas each symphony from the Tokyo set was recorded from a single concert. Therefore there may well be some differences between the earlier and the later recordings in terms of spontaneity/hiccups, and similar to what you've said, Jansons' vision might have also developed/refined over time.

I think the earlier recordings are also good enough to be called a great set; although I am feeling really curious about the Tokyo recordings.


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## Knorf

*SACD 7*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125
Krassimira Stoyanova, Lioba Braun, Michael Schade, Michael Volle
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Michael Gläser, chorus master
Recorded live 27 October, 2007; Aula Paolo VI, Vatican
First release, 2010

This is a performance from much earlier than all of the rest. Seeing that there were two Ninths in the box made me a bit skeptical. As in, is it really necessary to have two? Are they that different, and both still special?

This one was recorded from a single concert at the Vatican in Rome. The pope was present, blah blah. I don't care about that.

But it is indeed different! A glance at the timings suggests that this one is slightly slower, but actually it doesn't sound like it. At all. Maybe there's just a smidge more give and take?

One thing is for sure: the first movement is rather more volcanic here. The twisty woodwind counterpoint isn't as interestingly phrased as the later one, but then the big climaxes have more abrupt explosivity. From that viewpoint, this one (at least this movement) will likely please the average collector rather more. And I think usually I'd like it more, too. It's undeniably thrilling. But I think the newer one in Tokyo might have changed a bit how I hear this music! This one is more conventional, overall, albeit extraordinarily, stunningly realized. Yet, because of the later one, I can't help but hear this a little differently than I once did. It's interesting!

Also, the SACD incarnation sounds absolutely fantastic! The recorded sound is absolutely superb, and as usual the playing is out-of-sight good, some of the moost sublime ever put to disc in this symphony. Pity more of the others weren't also mastered for the SACD format! It doesnt always sound better than a CD, but to my ears definitely _can_.

On to the Scherzo. Similar comments apply. It's literally almost 30 seconds slower, but it doesn't sound like it. And it's slightly more conventionally focused on the explosive rhythmic gestures, just like the first movement in this recording. But I miss very slightly the keen sense of line and direction of the later Tokyo performance. The pauses are slightly longer here, which I do like. The coda in contradiction isn't quite as defiant here as the later one.

The Adagio is the most similar between the two. You'll hear fabulous sustained woodwind and string playing, beautiful atmosphere, and keen attention to keep things moving and the melodic line always connected, quite naturally so. This one is nearly a minute slower, but, again, it's not really perceptible. Again, I enjoy this so much that no, I'm not at all impatient to get to the fourth movement. There are a few other little details here and there that are different.

Ok, that's already enough to convince me of the value of having both Ninths. They're both great (the earlier one just a bit more conventionally so), but just different enough to be justified.

And we then have the Finale. Similarly to the later Ninth, the focus in the introduction is on the dissonance. The tempo is on the slow side, and the cello/bass rectitatives are conventionally slower. I personally like more explosive recits. But the slower kind is a conventional and perfectly valid choice.

At the start of the "Ode to Joy" theme, the low strings aren't quite as magically hushed as the later recording, but the entrance of the bassoons is just as lovely, and as it builds up it's all quite wonderful, just as the later recording. I'm slightly less taken with the trumpet playing here. But aren't I just caviling again, here? Scrutinizing every detail to an unnecessary degree?

Let's be honest, from the bass entrance to the end, it's difficult to get this wrong. And if you have a great orchestra and choir on your side, and at least competent soloists, it'll work out great. But I don't wish to take anything away from Jansons's spectacular attention to detail, which indeed makes this extra special.

My guess is most listeners are going to like the Vatican performance better. But I'll insist it's a mistake to thereby dismiss the later Tokyo performance.

Happy New Year!


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## Knorf

*CD 8*
*Ludwig van Beethoven*: Mass in C major, Op. 86; _Leonore_ Overture No. 3, Op. 72
Genia Kühmeier, Gerhild Romberger, Maximilian Schmitt, Luca Pisaroni
Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Howard Arman, chorus master
Mass recorded live 11-12 January, 2018; Philharmonie im Gasteig, München
Overture recorded live 29-30 January, 2004; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2018

I've owned this recording for awhile as a single disc, and thought very highly of it already. With all of the terrific qualities that makes his Beethoven symphony cycle so good, Jansons makes the strongest possible case for the unduly-neglected Mass in C major as a worthy masterpiece in Beethoven's oeuvre. In fact, it was also the high quality of this performance and recording that first put the idea in my head, that it might be a good idea for me to give the Jansons Beethoven symphony cycle a listen! I'd already felt that I'd paid inadequate attention to Jansons's more recent work, and this Mass recording confirmed it.

The overture on this disc is very good, so good actually that I wish more of the overtures were available. I wouldn't wish to displace the "Beethoven reflections" pieces, but surely there was room for a few more overtures...

For that matter, why isn't there a Jansons _Missa solemnis_?

I guess you can't have everything.

I know there is a Bernard Haitink _Missa solemnis_ with the Symphonieorchester und Chor des Bayerischen Rundfunks on BR Klassik. Anyone have thoughts on that one?


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## Kreisler jr

This may not be accessible internationally (or not without some tweaks such as VPN, I am NOT recommending anything grey or illegal here!) but a/the performance of the C major mass is available for video stream here:

https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/b...lhODQzLWIxMTQtNDdlMS1hMjc0LWU4MjE3ZTlhMGI1Nw/


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## Knorf

*CD 9*
*Hector Berlioz*: _Symphonie fantastique_, Op. 14
*Edgar Varèse*: _Ionisation_
Berlioz Recorded live 7-8 March 2013, Varèse recorded live 1-2 July 2010; Philharmonie im Gasteig, München
First release, 2014

To my surprise, this _Symphonie fantastique_ is very good! ...But why surprise? Why did I assume it wouldn't be good? Did I have any reason at all to think so? Not really. Maybe it's because the recording of this in the Skrowaczewski box isn't wonderful, despite the high quality of everything else in it. I do tend to be really picky about performances of the _Symphonie fantastique_, having found very few performances on modern instruments to be particularly interesting (Munch excepted.) And I suppose I have generally associated Jansons's best work with very different repertoire, especially Russian, such as that wonderful Rachmaninov disc in this box. But a little Googling reveals quite a few critics did indeed notice how good this release is.

Anyway, I must speak for myself, and this _Symphonie fantastique_ is indeed excellent. Really excellent! Jansons does well in exaggerating the obsessive and lurid elements, contrasting them with moments of lucidity, elegance, and sanity (such as in the second movement, although I'm slightly grouchy that the optional cornet is omitted.) And as usual, it's spectacularly well recorded, and the orchestra plays absolutely brilliantly! One other demerit: contrary to his Beethoven, Jansons does not observe the marked repeats.

The lonely pathos of the third movement is particularly well captured. It's ostensibly pastoral, but Jansons brings the weirdness. This same weirdness serves the fourth and fifth movements extremely well, although Jansons doesn't quite reach the wild craziness of Munch in the latter. But who does? In any case, all in all this is excellent Berlioz. There are moments when I can genuinely feel the bafflement audiences hearing this for the first time in 1830 must have felt.

By the way, Jansons uses real church bells in the _Dies irae_ section! Huzzah! The trombones there are a bit too solemn for my taste, but Jansons uses them as a foil for mockery from the upper woodwinds and strings, and it's an acceptable choice.

Varèse's _Ionisation_ for thirteen percussionists accompanies the Berlioz. Certainly, an odd choice. Maybe a larger, orchestral composition by Varèse would have made more sense? Something like _Arcana_? At any rate, this is a very fine recording of _Ionisation_. Would that more Varèse was in this box!


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## Knorf

*CD 10*
*Johannes Brahms*: Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68
Recorded 30-31 October, 2007; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2012

This is a steady, not brisk, rather Teutonic Brahms First. The first movement is weighty and sonorous. There is no first movement exposition repeat. My most immediate comparative adjective was, "Karajanesque." There are some different shades of detail and highlighting, but in general a comparison in overall approach to Karajan feels apt. And that's not at all necessarily a bad thing; there's much to admire in Karajan's Brahms. But it does run against the grain of recent Brahms interpretation, and the question emerges, does this offer something sufficiently distinctive in the details to set it apart from Karajan?

Things get a little better in the second movement. Within a tempo that is admittedly much more sostenuto than truly andante, I discerned an elasticity in phrasing and tempo that is very lovely. Jansons's sense of the connectivity of melody in the slow movements in Beethoven was excellent, and is so here as well. And there's no disputing that this orchestra sounds truly wonderful! But again, the word Karajanesque swims into my head. Again not as a pejorative, but as a question mark.

The third movement brings gorgeously supple clarinet solo and a wonderful, floating feeling in the tempo and phrasing. This is the movement in this recording that might stay in my imagination the longest. It's really very lovely! I'd say Jansons and orchestra obtain a perfect "allegretto" and "grazioso." I will say it's something of an unusual scenario for this movement to come across as so exceptionally memorable.

Jansons always seems to do well with a brooding, darkly musical atmosphere, and the introduction to the fourth movement is very convincing. But I find myself wishing it had been balanced with a bit stormier first movement. Fortunately the big tune arrives and it's not too slow; it's warm and comforting but moves along nicely. In general this movement in this recording is very successful; it's properly agitated around the oases of poetic lyricism, with much more flexibility of tempo and contrasts than was the case in the first movement. I found myself particularly taken with the many little oboe solos, and actually all of the contributions from the principal woodwinds.

This is a very fine Brahms First, really; many details are rather wonderful. However, I'm stuck with the feeling that it's rather Karajanesque, without breaking much new ground, beyond arguably more individually characterful woodwind solos. There's really nothing obviously wrong with this performance, other than the slightly stodgy first movement. But I probably won't be counting it among my favorites, and that feels a tad disappointing after such a great Beethoven cycle and excellent Berlioz!


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## Knorf

*CD 11*
*Johannes Brahms*: Symphony No. 4 in E minor, Op. 98
Recorded 06-10 February, 2012; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München
First release, 2012

Similar comments apply to those I wrote for Brahms's First Symphony yesterday: again "Karajanesque" is not far off. However, I think the very lyrical, rich, and elegant approach works better here. My taste for the First leans towards more volatility in the first movement. But here, in the first movement of the Fourth, a more ruminative interpretation works out great, in my opinion. There is also great clarity in the woodwind counterpoint, something I also noticed in some of the Beethoven symphonies in this box, and I must say I really like this and find it highly effective.

Karajan's recordings typically kept the woodwinds as a more blended choir in Brahms, not that there's anything wrong with that. A measure greater soloistic independence with Jansons might seem like a minor thing, but actually I think it's an rather important distinction. Frankly, greater woodwind clarity is a big reason I've gravitated towards preferring smaller-band Brahms; Jansons here demonstrates that real contrapuntal clarity indeed can be just as achievable and successful with the "big band" approach. To be fair, so did Abbado, Wand, Skrowaczewski, Kleiber, and others, to a greater or lesser degree. Still, Jansons in this Brahms Fourth is distinctive enough and successful enough to stand with that esteemed company.

The Third movement is dancing and joyful (superior in that regard to Abbado/Berlin), and the Fourth movement, while less imposing than some, nonetheless has all the anguished pathos you could ask for. But once again, Jansons is really most memorably superb with the slow movement, a slowish Andante yes, but never dragging or losing melodic direction.

In short, this is a terrific Brahms Symphony No. 4! It doesn't quite surpass my all-time favorites, but it's certainly fairly competitive with them, and that is saying a lot.


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## Knorf

*SACD 12*
*Johannes Brahms*: Symphonies No. 2 in D major, Op. 73 and No. 3 in F major, Op. 90
Symphony No. 2 recorded live 16-17 March, 2006; Herkulesaal der Residenz, München 
Symphony No. 3 recorded live 16 January, 2010; Großer Saal des Musikvereins, Wien
First release, 2011

The Third Symphony in this cycle is not recorded from performances in the Herkulesaal der Residenz in Munich, but rather from a concert on tour in Vienna. I don't think the change of venue is all that noticeable in sound, excepting it seems like it was recorded and mastered at a slightly lower gain, which is odd (maybe it has higher peaks?). It does also strike me as odd that these were released in the SACD format, but not the First and Fourth. In the end, that isn't such a big deal, either: all three discs sound fantastic!

As with the Beethoven cycle, Jansons's general approach with Brahms is very consistent. This is warmly expressed, darkly sustained, sumptuous, elegant, thoughtful Brahms. There's rather little trace of anything corresponding to the "Meiningen Tradition" or period-instruments practice. If you like your Brahms much more comforting than driven, more contemplative than overtly conflicted, this will do nicely. The performances by this wonderful orchestra are absolutely lovely, and Jansons doesn't really do anything seriously questionable; the only movement I'm decidedly cool on is the first movement of No. 1.

In the end, for me, the most memorable movements in all four symphonies are the inner movements, and I don't mean "by comparison" to the outer, movements. I mean, they're genuinely quite remarkable in their quality, all on their own. In fact, they are probably the main reason I'd recommend this cycle, along with the notably gorgeous orchestral performance and superb recorded sound. Once again-all through the cycle-I really appreciate the unusually audible clarity in the woodwind counterpoint, for performances that otherwise are in the tradition of big orchestra string sections.

Having said that, I must recognize the high quality of the last movements of the Second and Third; both are very, very good. The first movements aren't chopped liver, either, although they are indeed a bit less stormily agitated than some of my favorites. The entrance of the low brass in the last movement of No. 2 is notably thrilling, and the coda of the last movement of No. 3 is something really special. The "Karajanesque"* quality is much less salient in these recordings (or maybe I just grew to accept it?), especially in the Third.

One small cavil: two discs for the First and Fourth Symphonies, with no other works, strikes me as unnecessarily parsimonious. Are there really no other Brahms concertos, overtures, sets of variations, etc., or music by someone else, that could have filled these discs out more nicely?

Regardless, all in all: a very fine Brahms Symphony cycle, one that I am quite happy to include in my collection and revisit occasionally.

*Again, not at all using "Karajanesque" as a pejorative.


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