# The Late Quartets of Ludwig Van Beethoven



## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

_Imagine a world in which most of the intelligent and well-educated people are unable to read. When it comes to music, that's the world we live in._

The squadron-leader replied: "I am going to spend my week-end leave with God and the late Beethoven string quartets." Music is the most intangible of the arts, unfolding in time, unlike paintings, which capture a moment in time for ever, or literature which can take its time to capture and elaborate a moment or an idea. Music cannot express an idea; it can (occasionally) imitate reality but more often it reflects mood or consciousness of an idea; that is, when it is not abstract. Mendelssohn once said that if you could explain a piece of music in words then it was no longer music. And Aaron Copland once wrote that his answer to the question "Is there a meaning to music?" would be "Yes". But to the question "Can you state in so many words what the meaning is ?" his answer would be "No".

So how could my squadron-leader and countless others equate Beethoven's late quartets with God ? My answer is 'listen to them and you might find the equation accurate'. Although before that might come another question: is it not really God in that equation? By most accounts, Beethoven was not an orthodox believer; but neither was he an atheist. It would seem that he believed in a Supreme Being. And it has been said that all composers of truly great music must have been similar believers, orthodox or unorthodox; many have testified to that.

Recently I spent a week listening to the last five Beethoven quartets. I was transported and feel that I have been in touch with some higher state of being. Those quartets are not easy listening or necessarily the most beautiful music ever - although there is beautiful music in them - but they are surely the most meaningful, and thought provoking music that exists. The thoughts are moods, consciousness of shapes and patterns that are totally satisfying, reactions that are subjective, maybe, but ones that induce feelings of spirituality.

The five late quartets were some of the last music Beethoven composed: Opus 127 in E flat, 130 in B flat, 131 in C sharp minor, 132 in A minor and 135 in F, all composed between 1823 and 1826. In 1827 Beethoven died of dropsy and pneumonia at the age of 56. 130 is the quartet that has two endings, the original finale being the (great) Grosse Fuge (although Beethoven later composed an alternative finale, an easy going one), 152 has the Holy Thanksgiving slow movement-hymn 'from a convalescent to the Deity' (ah, ha. Deity!) whilst 135 has a lighter touch (cf. Verdi's old age opera Falstaff) except for the profound slow movement, and ends with question and answer 'must it be?', 'it must be' spelt out in notes. As opposed to many of the symphonies, concertos and overtures which are somehow public works, the quartets tell of the composer's rich but often troubled inner life.

They are serious utterances but by no means devoid of humour and lightness, but they are instincts with the experience of a lifetime. By his fifties Beethoven was old before his time, weighed down with the crushing blow of his deafness and the various circumstances that stood in the way of the marriage that he so longed for. Perhaps too, the intensity, the high tension of writing the late quartets hastened his death. His inner sense of music was so acute that in his mind he heard everything that he put down on paper in such astonishing detail as to notation, gradations of volume, tempo, articulation and texture. His communication with the listener is complete: with a single phrase or two or three chords he can induce feelings of love, joy, morality, mysticism and a thousand nameless impressions that cannot be put into words.

Most of his first listeners and performers thought that Beethoven had gone off his head and that the late works were not performable. Certainly he strains his players to the limit and the music is often much in advance of its time. The Grosse Fuge is some of the wildest and most forceful music ever written yet its construction is cast in steel being continuous variations on four motives, every bar related thematically, an intellectual miracle yet shattering in its emotional effect. The music is rarely sensuous but full of masculine tenderness.

Occasionally we get a vision of a soul in anguish, as in the Cavatina of opus 150 (which Beethoven thought his deepest Adagio) in which the first violin sobs out his message. The whole quartet that he thought his finest was the C sharp minor opus 151 whose opening slow Fugue seems to attain a state of grace. These words are maybe futile but if you will try (or try again) the experience of listening to these quartets, you may understand what I am trying to say; they represent a perfect marriage of heart and mind, there is no padding but there are hints of the romantic age shortly to be born.

I listened to performances of the quartets made way back in the 1970's by the Vegh Quartet that are still acknowledged to be consistently the best. Also very fine are the Lindsay Quartet and more recently the Brodsky.

_[A lovely article taken from a blog by a soldier.]_

It's about time we discussed the greatest pieces of music ever written.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Well, this is a good excuse for me to sit down and listen again. I wish I had the luxury of a week to do it. 

I can certainly vouch for the Grosse Fuge as I have stated elsewhere. I arrange my playlists to play the opus 130 in five movements, the lighter final movement fourth and the Grosse Fuge as a fifth movement. That seems a satisfying way to approach the quartet and it still holds together as a unified whole when played this way. My version is a Cleveland Quartet.

I have at least two of the late quartets as arranged by Leonard Bernstein for string orchestra. Some would say this is lbasphemopus, but the texture of those quartets make it work for me. They are every bit as awesome as the symphonies -- perhaps more so as I age and find I don't need so much bombast as a symphony can provide. 

I'll try to report more after listening.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Bach said:


> It's about time we discussed the greatest pieces of music ever written.


Stylistically, aesthetically, in a world of their own. Neither 'classical' nor 'Romantic'. Beethoven had essentially transcended any concern with music in history or the outside world*. A profound introversion led him to a musical empyrean of numinous depth, wherein the truest originality and potency of expression is actualised.

*Although the musicologist Richard Taruskin argues that aristocratic patronage played a part in the formation of Beethoven's late style.


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## Yosser (May 29, 2009)

I'm thoroughly familiar with the final triptych of piano sonatas, less so with the quartets, but I would without question subscribe to the view that these late works are the greatest ever written. Like Weston, inspired by the OP, I'll be looking for a block of time to immerse myself again in the quartets.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm not religious myself so I would look at them as representing in a general way the human spirit / predicament. As Bach said it's a combination of heart and mind. Not just pure emotion but the human brain's need to analyse that and understand and perhaps come to terms with their individual situation. Of course from Beethoven's view it may well have had a strong religious element to the music, one slow movement he actually says is his thanking god for recovery from his illness (although in reality I believe he thanked his doctor as well  ). But it's hard for us to know _exactly_ what Beethoven meant through these pieces (or maybe any composer with any piece) perhaps it's just better to look at what we as individuals get from them.

As for their place in music in general.....I would see them as being part of the broad development of the classical style which I would look at being the dominant style of this whole genre (as it has developed) and which had a huge continuing influence throughout the 19th century and onwards. After Beethoven (and maybe Schubert) though I'm not sure there has been a composer at that level of creation (for accessibility, craft and variety). Because it comes near the end of such an important period for the whole genre it gives the quartets an important place in musical history.

My own favourite has tended to be op130 with the original ending as it is feels so ambitious and all encompassing, embracing the popular with the complex. The Lindsay are quite good in it. For the late quartets in general the Busch Quartet are rather good.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

I always found so moving the fact that the last thing Beethoven ever composed was the new Allegro ending to the op.130. The last thing you do is called _Finale: Allegro_... I don't know, it's just so encouragingly symbolic.


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## Yosser (May 29, 2009)

I don't have a great deal to say because these late quartets have been analyzed to death by pundits far more qualified to do so than I.

As a listener, while I recognize the astonishing musical achievement of the Grosse Fugue, I have to say that this, of itself, is musically incomplete. It is too 'big' to be the Finale of Op 130, too 'exposed' to merit its individual Opus No. 133. A great string quartet must be balanced.

Op 131, however, is as perfect as one could imagine a string quartet could ever get, not only because each movement is gorgeous in itself, but because all seven fit together so inevitably. 

Just my opinion.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Yosser said:


> I don't have a great deal to say because these late quartets have been analyzed to death by pundits far more qualified to do so than I.
> 
> As a listener, while I recognize the astonishing musical achievement of the Grosse Fugue, I have to say that this, of itself, is musically incomplete. It is too 'big' to be the Finale of Op 130, too 'exposed' to merit its individual Opus No. 133. A great string quartet must be balanced.
> 
> ...


The Grosse Fugue is definitely not an individual piece to be played on it's own, it's a finale..it has the energy of one. I don't see why it has to be too big for op130 however. The silence after the fade out of the cavatina is brilliantly broken by the searing chords of the finale. The start of this finale has the same brutal energy of the start of the op131 finale. Op131 though is a more conventional finale, like that for op132 but perhaps better (at least with the ending maybe). The finale for op130 is like a summing up of the whole quartet mixing the serious and humorous, dance and lyricism.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Yosser said:


> I don't have a great deal to say because these late quartets have been analyzed to death by pundits far more qualified to do so than I.
> 
> As a listener, while I recognize the astonishing musical achievement of the Grosse Fugue, I have to say that this, of itself, is musically incomplete. It is too 'big' to be the Finale of Op 130, too 'exposed' to merit its individual Opus No. 133. A great string quartet must be balanced.
> 
> ...


I never thought on that. It surely makes the String quartet uneven, but it is not unseen in beethoven, Eroica symphony for example. But what you said makes sense, I will think on that. But curiously, the op 130 is the string quartet I least like in the late ones. I'll give it a listen.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

I think op.130 functions brilliantly the way it is now, with the Finale: Allegro last movement. And the whole quartet is beautifully exciting.

My favourite moments from these works include the Cavatina, the Grosse Fuge, the Hymn of a Convalescent, and the entire op.135. I'll have to relisten the op.131, it didn't seem to attract my attention.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I'm ashamed to admit that I have only ONE recording of a Beethoven quartet, and it's of the onein Bb Major, op. 130. This recording included the Grosse Fuge. I've heard at least one or two others on the radio that I can remember off-hand.

These works seem to be a little more severe than, say, his symphonies. They require a good dose of concentration, which is not a bad thing, it just means you have to be in the right state of mind to really take it all in.

What strikes me, though, is how "modern" they sound, especially if you compare them to a Mozart or Haydn quartet. Yes, they were written after Haydn and Mozart, but not too much after. Remarkable how revolutionary Beethoven was.


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## JustAFan (May 5, 2009)

I believe I know exactly what you're saying, I feel the same way.

I have several recordings of the Late Quartets, and would note that competition for "best recording" of these pinnacle works is intense!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> Remarkable how revolutionary Beethoven was.


But he built on those who went before him too. The main thing to me is the quality of the music. I don't think his quartets influenced 19th century music that much but more twentieth century music if anything. But influence is so hard to judge, alot of it is about fashion and the direction music just happens to go in. There are many influences mixed together in modern music as well.



JustAFan said:


> I believe I know exactly what you're saying, I feel the same way.
> 
> I have several recordings of the Late Quartets, and would note that competition for "best recording" of these pinnacle works is intense!


I would say the Busch Quartet really.



Lisztfreak said:


> I think op.130 functions brilliantly the way it is now, with the Finale: Allegro last movement. And the whole quartet is beautifully exciting.


But is it even played with the substitute finale that often?


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

starry said:


> But is it even played with the substitute finale that often?


Well, I have never heard it played with the Grosse Fuge ending, honestly.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Lisztfreak said:


> Well, I have never heard it played with the Grosse Fuge ending, honestly.


In concert? Well I'd surprised at that. On cd I suppose they normally will put both endings on so the listener can choose. In earliest recordings I think they did just play it with the substitute finale (like with the Busch) but that maybe has changed since.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

starry said:


> I don't think his quartets influenced 19th century music that much but more twentieth century music if anything.


Actually they did. This is a curious assumption I've often seen arround. Mendelssohn was a lot influenced by Beethoven's late work, both his piano sonatas and his string quartets (and his octet) show the stamp of Beethoven's influence quite clearly. Take a look at Mendelssohn's String quartet no. 2 in A minor or the piano sonata in E major, all pure Beethoven.

And I also thing Beethoven's late quartets have a heavy dose of exaggeration (not of their quality which is surely immense) but in their difference. It was exactly in his late period that Beethoven became closer to Mozart and Haydn's formal procedures, and it is exactly in his first period that he is more distant, this has been thoroughly analysed in Charles Rosen's _Sonata forms_.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

bdelykleon said:


> Actually they did. This is a curious assumption I've often seen arround. Mendelssohn was a lot influenced by Beethoven's late work, both his piano sonatas and his string quartets (and his octet) show the stamp of Beethoven's influence quite clearly. Take a look at Mendelssohn's String quartet no. 2 in A minor or the piano sonata in E major, all pure Beethoven.
> 
> And I also thing Beethoven's late quartets have a heavy dose of exaggeration (not of their quality which is surely immense) but in their difference. It was exactly in his late period that Beethoven became closer to Mozart and Haydn's formal procedures, and it is exactly in his first period that he is more distant, this has been thoroughly analysed in Charles Rosen's _Sonata forms_.


Fair enough, I don't know that quartet. I've heard other quartets that make it sound like Beethoven's late pieces had never been written. These are the problems you get when you try and calculate the influence of works. There are all kinds of other influences in a period you have to disentangle. This is why all that really matters to me is the quality (either good or bad) of the original piece.

Of course Beethoven was influenced by Mozart but I've tended to feel he had a close affinity with Haydn in particular (the brusqueness of their music at times linking them).


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

starry said:


> Fair enough, I don't know that quartet. I've heard other quartets that make it sound like Beethoven's late pieces had never been written. These are the problems you get when you try and calculate the influence of works. There are all kinds of other influences in a period you have to disentangle. This is why all that really matters to me is the quality (either good or bad) of the original piece.
> 
> Of course Beethoven was influenced by Mozart but I've tended to feel he had a close affinity with Haydn in particular (the brusqueness of their music at times linking them).


The affinity of Beethoven with Haydn has surely its reasons, first taht both like extremely 'thematic' music, both like to chose unexceptional themes, sometimes only a rythmic gesture (like in the op33 no. 1 of Haydn or in the violin concerto) and use extensively the thematic development. Mozart likes more a fine tune, that long singing melody, and a more fluid writing. But that doesn't mean that probably Beethoven admired Mozart better and was deeply influenced by him, his third piano concerto shows a strong influence of the famous Mozart concertos in minor keys and his string quartet op. 18 no. 5 inspires directly in the K. 464.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

starry said:


> In concert? Well I'd surprised at that. On cd I suppose they normally will put both endings on so the listener can choose. In earliest recordings I think they did just play it with the substitute finale (like with the Busch) but that maybe has changed since.


Yeah, I've heard it once in concert, once or twice on the radio and I have the Amadeus Quartett set with all the LvB's quartets, on DG. On the disc with op.130 there is just the version with the Allegro, and the Grosse Fuge is recorded on another CD, separately.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

starry said:


> But he built on those who went before him too.


All revolutionaries build on what goes before them. But it's their ability to not sound like what went before them that makes them special. Beethoven is very special.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> All revolutionaries build on what goes before them. But it's their ability to not sound like what went before them that makes them special. Beethoven is very special.


It is quite different, Beethoven never went away from Haydn and Mozart's forms and procedures, he had some differences with them, mainly by using more distantly related keys (like the mediant in the Waldstein and so on) but it is basically the same kind of sonata form and usually the same procedures and as I said, with time the sonata forms began to be even more closer to the works of 1780, due to the loss of the richness of bridge passages and non thematic material the First Beethoven had.

Revolutionary are composers like Chopin with his strange harmonies nearing the nonfuncional and his refusal to work within the sonata form. Beethoven was actually incredibly reactionary in his time, he didn't like Weber, Schubert and said Spohr was too chromatic and dissonant(figure what he would say of Liszt, Schumann or Wagner)! Of his generation he admired specially Cherubini and Méhul who were also quite reactionary to their time.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

bdelykleon said:


> It is quite different, Beethoven never went away from Haydn and Mozart's forms and procedures, he had some differences with them, mainly by using more distantly related keys (like the mediant in the Waldstein and so on) but it is basically the same kind of sonata form and usually the same procedures and as I said, with time the sonata forms began to be even more closer to the works of 1780, due to the loss of the richness of bridge passages and non thematic material the First Beethoven had.
> 
> Revolutionary are composers like Chopin with his strange harmonies nearing the nonfuncional and his refusal to work within the sonata form. Beethoven was actually incredibly reactionary in his time, he didn't like Weber, Schubert and said Spohr was too chromatic and dissonant(figure what he would say of Liszt, Schumann or Wagner)! Of his generation he admired specially Cherubini and Méhul who were also quite reactionary to their time.


So you argue Beethoven did not push the boundaries of music as much as he has credit for?


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> So you argue Beethoven did not push the boundaries of music as much as he has credit for?


Yes he did, but he kept the same boundaries. Chopin, Schumann (or Monteverdi, Scarlatti and Stravinsky in other periods) created other boundaries.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Beethoven uses more chromaticism than Schubert and more dissonance than Spohr (hello? Grosse Fuge? Hammerklavier? Op. 95?) - Beethoven cordially acknowledged Schubert's genius on several occasions, saying, "Truly, the spark of divine genius resides in this Schubert!"


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Bach said:


> Beethoven uses more chromaticism than Schubert and more dissonance than Spohr (hello? Grosse Fuge? Hammerklavier? Op. 95?) - Beethoven cordially acknowledged Schubert's genius on several occasions, saying, "Truly, the spark of divine genius resides in this Schubert!"


Beethoven may have been more technically dissonant than Spohr (he is even more than Chopin at the Grosse Fugue), the works you mentioned surely speak for themselves, but he nevertheless said that. The problem is that Spohr (who is a completely uneventful composer) had exactly the typical embellished chromatism of the romantic Age. It is the unresolved and emotional chromaticism that he disliked, and pobably he would dislike Chopin even more (and Chopin never was a fan of him).

And this quote on Schubert is highly doubtful because it comes from Schindler in a defense of Schubert's music, in the books of conversations with Beethoven he is never mentioned. Read the book _The Changing Image of Beethoven_.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I am listening to the quartet No. 15, Op. 132 with my full attention in honor of this thread. Here are my layman's impressions of the work.

In the first movement I hear pre-echoes of the Grosse Fuge. I believe I read it was composed first in spite of the opus number. There is some rhythmic or gestural similarity especially toward the middle of the movement in one of the development passages. As with the Grosse Fuge, I feel there is something just out of reach here that I can almost grasp and I feel I need extensive annotations. The CD with the Guarneri Quartet does not have as extensive liner notes as I would need to fully grasp what is going on in the movement. I DO notice that a simple theme transforms itself from misery to affirmation with a number of sudden and unexpected transformations in between.

Movement 2 is a little more conventional (for Beethoven) and just about perfect. It uses the usual Beethoven short motifs but somehow manages to flow melodically. I find the rhythm slightly hard to grasp at first, which always adds to my interest. There is amazing variety of almost orchestral colors by the clever way the main phrases are handed off between the upper and inner voices. It's a pretty movement. Part of the development around the middle of the piece is delicate and lacy, though Beethoven cannot resist turning ominous in the latter part of the development. The recapitulation is without a lot of bombast, making this movement seem pastoral to me and quite pleasing. 

The 3rd movement is the long hymn-like part. The opening chords cry out to be played on muted horns to my ears. I guess that's blasphemy, but it would be so beautiful that way. It devolves into a Pachelbel Canon-like section for which I have forgiven Beethoven since it is short and infinitely more interesting than the Canon. When the hymn comes back in it begins to sound weirdly American, as if Copland had written a string quartet using "Simple Gifts." I know that sounds crazy. It's something about the harmonies and voicing. I feel the ending is a bit long winded for today's sound byte world and it nearly lulled me to sleep. Maybe it is supposed to.

The 4th and 5th movements flow seamlessly into each other and could almost be lifted out of a Haydn quartet. They have the feeling of coming home from whatever spiritual journey Beethoven had been on (I read he had an illness).

Unfortunately for me the timbre of the solo strings is harsh compared to a piano or a string orchestra and this is somewhat of a barrier to my enjoyment of these otherwise awesome pieces and to most other string chamber pieces also.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Weston said:


> I feel the ending is a bit long winded for today's sound byte world and it nearly lulled me to sleep. Maybe it is supposed to.
> 
> Unfortunately for me the timbre of the solo strings is harsh compared to a piano or a string orchestra and this is somewhat of a barrier to my enjoyment of these otherwise awesome pieces and to most other string chamber pieces also.


These are the kind of things you can get used to over time. Otherwise I'm guessing the performers and how well they play/interpet the music could have affected your opinion as well.

My main question with op132 is with it's very end which is quite positive. Is this prepared for enough in the previous music? This positive ending seems to come quite suddenly imo. Sometimes I've been able to make this leap of faith at the end of the piece, sometimes not so much.


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## Yosser (May 29, 2009)

Weston said:


> Unfortunately for me the timbre of the solo strings is harsh compared to a piano or a string orchestra and this is somewhat of a barrier to my enjoyment of these otherwise awesome pieces and to most other string chamber pieces also.


I would suggest this may be due to inferior or defective recording/reproduction equipment. 
If you are listening to YouTube MP3's, it almost certainly is. Most top-line quartets play with superb instruments, but it is rather difficult to reproduce electronically the sound of a Guarneri.

There is really no substitute for listening to great music live, whether it be string quartets, solo piano or a full orchestra.


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## JustAFan (May 5, 2009)

Weston said:


> Unfortunately for me the timbre of the solo strings is harsh compared to a piano or a string orchestra and this is somewhat of a barrier to my enjoyment of these otherwise awesome pieces and to most other string chamber pieces also.


Perhaps an acquired taste - like olives, scotch whiskey, or a quality cigar.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

I find it interesting that people can easily come to a general consensus on the 'greatest music written.' While I think that some individual movements of the quartets are breath taking, and some of the best written in the genre (such as the slow movement of 15 or the final movement of 14), I think there are some real flaws to some of the pieces that people tend to overlook and pass off as just 'not being able to understand them.' Such as not enough tension in 12, the problem finale in 13... in 15 I personally thought he spent a bit to much time getting to major mode in the finale, though by the time he wrote 14 (which came after) he had sorted that out and made it more of a surprise. 

That said, these are some of my favorite pieces ever (14,15 and 16 in particular), and I hope that they only ever grow on me. But if we're yelling out cycles of music that deserve the 'best ever' ranking, I do think that the Bach Cello Suites ought to be in the mix, as well as Beethoven's own symphonies.


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> ...What strikes me, though, is *how "modern" they sound*, especially if you compare them to a Mozart or Haydn quartet...


I thought so too. It's like he had time machine to visit the future.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Nix said:


> I find it interesting that people can easily come to a general consensus on the 'greatest music written.' While I think that some individual movements of the quartets are breath taking, and some of the best written in the genre (such as the slow movement of 15 or the final movement of 14), I think there are some real flaws to some of the pieces that people tend to overlook and pass off as just 'not being able to understand them.' Such as not enough tension in 12, the problem finale in 13... in 15 I personally thought he spent a bit to much time getting to major mode in the finale, though by the time he wrote 14 (which came after) he had sorted that out and made it more of a surprise.
> 
> That said, these are some of my favorite pieces ever (14,15 and 16 in particular), and I hope that they only ever grow on me. But if we're yelling out cycles of music that deserve the 'best ever' ranking, I do think that the Bach Cello Suites ought to be in the mix, as well as Beethoven's own symphonies.


I think 12 is underrated. I think there is tension in it, I actually prefer the slow movement to the one in 14. And I don' t think there was a problem with the original finale to 13. The final pages to 15 I've found a bit unconvincing at times.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> Originally Posted by Tapkaara
> ...What strikes me, though, is how "modern" they sound, especially if you compare them to a Mozart or Haydn quartet...


I think so. I find Mozart and Haydn irrelevant in my repertoire.

On the other hand, does Beethoven's work sound as modern as Schubert's epic D887? Schubert boy genius that he was, is still way neglected in the string quartet repertoire as composers continue count how many fingers they have, or how many quartets Beethoven has written.

Well the beauty of Beethoven's string quartets isn't always directly accessible to us in the modern tradition. Does imposing limits, such as determining composition in the Lydian mode, only to make a 'break' - through - really imply a breakthrough? Or do modern listeners do away with such flourishes and take key free writings for granted, such as the non-key scale of writing, such as that found in Gorecki's works? Well I don't know. I'd say that the Beethoven late quartets (and the Xth - the plaintive Eb 'Harp Quartet') are more memorable to my ears in terms of structure, however emotionally, Gorecki's intensity dominates my recollections, in a way that Beethoven's work just cannot arouse, brilliant works as they are.

Yes - the esteemed Végh Quartet and Busch Quartet recordings are the historical standards. I'm probably out in a limb here alone in liking the rather esoteric Taneyev Quartet recordings - these are probably as un-Beethovenian as you can imagine - a light year away from the style of the technically brilliant Alban Berg recordings. If you really love these metaphysical quartets, you'll not settle for just one interpretation. Get at least 5 different versions ;P


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Head_case said:


> On the other hand, does Beethoven's work sound as modern as Schubert's epic D887? Schubert boy genius that he was, is still way neglected in the string quartet repertoire as composers continue count how many fingers they have, or how many quartets Beethoven has written.


Thank you for mentioning this one! Between 'Death and the Maiden' and the Quintet, this Quartet seems to get lost in the shuffle when discussing chamber music. And yes, this is a work that sounds like no other. The best way I've been able to describe it is 'neo-classical written in the classical era.'

I think as a whole that quartet sounds more modern, but certain movements of the Beethoven ones are definitely very far ahead of their time... the minuet and trio of #15 comes to mind.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Head_case said:


> I think so. I find Mozart and Haydn irrelevant in my repertoire.







Plenty of other examples why some might disagree with you.

I also think Mozart's very last quartets had a kind of intimate style and sometimes effervescence than you sometimes hear in late Beethoven (like his last quartet).


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## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

It's reported that two days before he died, Schubert's friends (four of them) came to his chambers and gave him a private performance of Beethoven's late *c#-minor Quartet* (Op. 131).

Personally I've always found this the most challenging of the late Quartets.

Recently I obtained the *Leipziger* Quartett's reading of the *c#-minor*: what a revelation!

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-String-Quartets-Opp-131/dp/B000007TS1/ref=cm_cr-mr-img


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## Random (Mar 13, 2010)

Yosser said:


> Op 131, however, is as perfect as one could imagine a string quartet could ever get, not only because each movement is gorgeous in itself, but because all seven fit together so inevitably.


Well said


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I was a bit daunted by these works when reading about them as a teenager 20 years ago. Now that I'm older, I have been able to "tackle" them with a much more open mind. I think that it's better to think of these works - all 6 of them - as one whole big work, rather than as seperate pieces. There are many links & correspondences between them, thematically, and in terms of mood and emotion. It's difficult for me to choose a favourite. I got the LaSalle Quartet's recordings made in the 1970's and now put out on Brilliant Classics. I'm happy with my purchase for many more reasons than the budget price, which is why I bought this set in the first place. I also have some of the quartets seperately played by the Budapest, Alban Berg and Kodaly quartets. I'm looking forward to a live performance of the Op. 132 here in Sydney by the Goldner String Quartet.

& I disagree with Head-case's comments that implied Mozart or Haydn weren't as great as Beethoven in this genre. Just listen to Haydn's "Emperor," or especially "The Seven Last Words of Christ" quartets, or Mozart's "Hunt" or especially the "Dissonance" quartets. There is a level of depth and gravitas similar to Beethoven in these works, but of course they are different, as they were composed more than a generation before...


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Beethoven particularly admired Mozart's A major Quartet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartet_No._18_(Mozart)

A really good look at Beethoven and Mozart and how Beethoven admired both him and Haydn is shown here...

http://www.aproposmozart.com/Lodes -- Beethoven & Mozart rev.pdf

This also suggests an influence between k464 and op132.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

A fascinating article, starry. Just skimmed over it. It confirms what I thought regarding the relationship between Beethoven, Haydn & Mozart. I'll print it out to give it some more in depth reading. Thanks again...


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