# Beethoven Triple Concerto



## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

It has been my experience that the Triple Concerto divides opinion. So, Beethoven Triple Concerto, yea or nay? Why? If yea, recommend a recording.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

It contains flashes of genius, but is mostly dull. I prefer the Brahms Double Concerto by far, and the Mozart Flute and Harp Concerto.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

It's a fine work. My favored version comes from the fantastic line-up of Richter, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, and Karajan. It's discmate is the Brahms "Double" minus Richter with Szell conducting. If you want these two works, it doesn't get better than this Warner Classics disc (originally on EMI).


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> It's a fine work. My favored version comes from the fantastic line-up of Richter, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, and Karajan. It's discmate is the Brahms "Double" minus Richter with Szell conducting. If you want these two works, it doesn't get better than this Warner Classics disc (originally on EMI).


Agreed. I don't like the Triple as much as the Brahms Double (to which it will be inevitably paired forever and ever) but it is still a good work. Maybe I will find more love for it in time.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

I prefer the sounds of the Triple to all other works by Beethoven. My preferred versions are 
Szeryng/Starker/Arrau, who give beautiful performances with Inbal/New Philharmonia...and Anda/Schneiderhan/Fournier with Fricsay/Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

The Triple is a favorite of mine. As someone already mentioned, Karajan made a great recording with the USSR all-stars (Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Richter), but so is his other recording of it with the younger generation (Anne-Sophie Mutter/Yo-Yo Ma/Mark Zeltser). The finest and warmest rendition in my opinion, is Isaac Stern/Leonard Rose/Eugene Istomin/Eugene Ormandy.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Gray Bean said:


> It has been my experience that the Triple Concerto divides opinion. So, Beethoven Triple Concerto, yea or nay? Why? If yea, recommend a recording.


Not a favorite Beethoven work, but I do enjoy it now and then. This is my preferred recording:


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I remember talking to my dad once about how Beethoven has the cello lead and the other soloists follow rather pedantically, making it sound more like a cello concerto with piano/violin obbligatos, "don't you feel Beethoven is overdoing it a little, without being as successful as his other concertos, in terms of instrumentation?" He replied, "the real beauty of this work lies in the final movement, where the three instruments fight each other as if were locked in an arena, in the most Beethovenian way. It's pure _ecstasy_."


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I commented on this third movement in another thread. The three soloists take turns seeming to improvising in a spur of the moment. My opinion is I think the work is not well known within TC. I find it hard to believe it cannot even get ranked in one of the surveys, and one reason is you have to know the work. A different kind of work by Beethoven. I would agree with your father on the third movement and I like to take it out for a test drive (3rd movement) when I hear a new one, but not many can equal the old ones mention above.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

> It has been my experience that the Triple Concerto divides opinion. So, Beethoven Triple Concerto, yea or nay? Why? If yea, recommend a recording.


Every piece of music divides people. 

Anyway: Richter, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, and Karajan is hard to beat.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Dull as cardboard - astonishing as this is the time of his life where he composed his two for me outstanding symphonies (5 and 6), and his magnificent violin concerto. YMMV and indeed for many it does.


----------



## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I certainly don't hate it, but I've never found that much in it either. I react similarly to the Brahms Double Concerto, despite loving his Violin Concerto to distraction, and though I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Mozart nut his Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola is a piece I like rather than love (though as it happens I find its usually lower-rated companion for winds quite delightful).


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> Dull as cardboard - astonishing as this is the time of his life where he composed his two for me outstanding symphonies (5 and 6), and his magnificent violin concerto. YMMV and indeed for many it does.


Not really surprising that Beethoven can compose something not that intense and with his stamp on it. I enjoy it for what it is and I am willing to bet that some novice listeners who are unable to get into classical music would warm to this as "easy" to like, whether as background or what not. We already know Beethoven limits the music to the level of the performers he had in mind. No matter as Beethoven has a way of putting the "midas" touch on any work he composed. Well, maybe not so but at least can be practical.

I'd be interested in top level performers on record as trashing the Triple concerto......then again maybe they keep their opinions to themselves for a reason.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Art Rock said:


> *Dull as cardboard* -astonishing as this is the time of his life where he composed his two for me outstanding symphonies (5 and 6), and his magnificent violin concerto. YMMV and indeed for many it does.


Astonishing then that so many major artists have taken the trouble to record it.

Richter / Oistrakh (x2) / Rostropovich
Stern / Rose / Istomin
Serkin / Panas / Laredo
Fournier / Anda / Schneiderahn
Argerich / Capucon / Maisky
to name but a few


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I have always seen it as being Beethoven in a bit of a lighter vein. Part of the charm is the novelty.

It is curious that Richter seems to have dismissed his own performance on a recording that has garnered some lavish praise. (I don't have that one.)


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Astonishing then that so many major artists have taken the trouble to record it.
> 
> Richter / Oistrakh (x2) / Rostropovich
> Stern / Rose / Istomin
> ...


Not astonishing at all. Art Rock, like most of us, has his own standards and won't compromise them just because a bunch of famous artists have recorded the "Triple".


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I was hooked by it when I was first getting into classical (weirdly enough one of the first Beethoven works I heard, even before the symphonies) but now when I revisit it I tend to be somewhat unimpressed. But it’s not offensive or intolerable music to me at all; just somewhat bland. There’s nothing wrong with the occasional listen.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> Not astonishing at all. Art Rock, like most of us, has his own standards and won't compromise them just because a bunch of famous artists have recorded the "Triple".


That's good. Your standards we assume are higher than these artists - and Beethoven's?


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I was hooked by it when I was first getting into classical (weirdly enough one of the first Beethoven works I heard, even before the symphonies) but now when I revisit it I tend to be somewhat unimpressed.


My experience has been similar. I think that I first heard the Triple Concerto (Inbal with Szeryng, Starker, and Arrau) after the violin concerto, but before the symphonies or piano concerti.


----------



## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> It's a fine work. My favored version comes from the fantastic line-up of Richter, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, and Karajan. It's discmate is the Brahms "Double" minus Richter with Szell conducting. If you want these two works, it doesn't get better than this Warner Classics disc (originally on EMI).


Bulldog said everything I would have.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

JAS said:


> I have always seen it as being Beethoven in a bit of a lighter vein. Part of the charm is the novelty.
> 
> It is curious that Richter seems to have dismissed his own performance on a recording that has garnered some lavish praise. (I don't have that one.)


If I recall he wanted to do retakes on parts but Karajan shut it down for some reason.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

DavidA said:


> Astonishing then that so many major artists have taken the trouble to record it.
> 
> Richter / Oistrakh (x2) / Rostropovich
> Stern / Rose / Istomin
> ...


I am sure that marketing plays a role and with Beethoven's name and star players (how many chances do cellist/pianist/violinst get together for a performance?) Still, I think the performers have greater respect for the piece regardless of what I think so their musical education gives them some credence on the matter.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bigbang said:


> I am sure that marketing plays a role and with Beethoven's name and star players (how many chances do cellist/pianist/violinst get together for a performance?)


That's done a lot, and it doesn't always work out well. The Ax/Perlman/Ma recording of the Mendelssohn trios, for example, is pretty dire, probably the worst recording of those works I've heard. But because of those three names, it's sold well and I've read a number of reviews that swoon over it.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Love the Triple Concerto, it's one of my favorites by Beethoven. The Richter/Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Karajan version is the one that I listen to more frequently.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DavidA said:


> That's good. Your standards we assume are higher than these artists - and Beethoven's?


Stop being offensive. Individual standards are different, that's all. It has nothing to do with higher or lower.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> Stop being offensive. Individual standards are different, that's all. It has nothing to do with higher or lower.


Funny, but when we talk about standards we usually mean 'higher' or 'lower' . So how do your 'standards' differ?


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bigbang said:


> I am sure that marketing plays a role and with Beethoven's name and star players (how many chances do cellist/pianist/violinst get together for a performance?) Still, I think the performers have greater respect for the piece regardless of what I think so their musical education gives them some credence on the matter.


The only big-name trio to record this work with a view to marketing were the Russians under Karajan. It was done for the Beethoven year as a prestige project for EMI. At the time the expense drove the accountants wild as they didn't expected it to sell but of course the public loved it and it sold by the truck-load. The other recordings I mentioned were just recorded in the normal course of events. Argerich played the work at her festival. It is certainly a festival piece where you have musicians gathered as the cost of bringing three star soloist together to actually play it in the evening would be usually prohibitive. Serkin et al would play it at Marlborough. Stern Rose and Istomin were a regular trio so played it at festivals too. I really enjoyed it as long as you don't take it too seriously


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Funny, but when we talk about standards we usually mean 'higher' or 'lower' . So how do your 'standards' differ?


My view of standards is horizontal; you appear to go vertical. Good luck with that.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

> Allerius Love the Triple Concerto, it's one of my favorites by Beethoven. The Richter/Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Karajan version is the one that I listen to more frequently.


Me too, almost unbeatable.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> My view of standards is horizontal; you appear to go vertical. Good luck with that.


Sorry but the usual way to talk about standards in the English language is in terms of 'higher or 'lower'. For example, "The standard of orchestral playing in the concert was of a high standard." If we talk horizontally we usually refer to 'tastes'.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Beethoven's triple comes from the concerto grosso tradition, not the concerto tradition, and lacks the profundity and virtuosity of much of his work. I enjoy it more than his other concertos on a regular basis for that reason. I have a period instrument recording I like where Paul Baudra-Skoda plays a keyboard that once belonged to Mozart.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

larold said:


> Beethoven's triple comes from the concerto grosso tradition, not the concerto tradition, and lacks the profundity and virtuosity of much of his work. I enjoy it more than his other concertos on a regular basis for that reason. I have a period instrument recording I like where Paul Baudra-Skoda plays a keyboard that once belonged to Mozart.


I think this is why it is better not to compare with the other concerti but rather enjoy on its own terms


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

larold said:


> Beethoven's triple comes from the concerto grosso tradition, not the concerto tradition, and lacks the profundity and virtuosity of much of his work. I enjoy it more than his other concertos on a regular basis for that reason. I have a period instrument recording I like where Paul Baudra-Skoda plays a keyboard that once belonged to Mozart.


I am not familiar at all with this performer, but his apparent interest in period instruments is intriguing. I see that his set of the Sonatas is all on a range of period pianos, appropriate to each based on the date of composition. Are his performances of the Beethoven concertos also on period pianos?

Edit: When I was in Japan a few years ago for a conference, there was a concert hall that listed performances of the concertos on period instruments. The first was still held when I was there, but it was already sold out, so I could not attend.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Anyone heard this one? (Beaux Arts Trio + Haitink/London Philharmonic)-sounds like a perfect match, though in fairness I'm not familiar with any of Haitink's Beethoven.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_I am not familiar at all with this performer, but his apparent interest in period instruments is intriguing._

Paul Badura Skoda was in the first wave of authenticity that occurred from the time of Toscanini (1930s) through the 1950s. In that era Wanda Landowska began playing Bach on harpsichord after a century of Bach on piano and other performers began playing Baroque and other "early" music on period instruments and/or using orchestras and groups the size composers would have known.

I just read an interesting story about Badura Skoda playing a Mozart program on a 1953 Westminster LP using both modern and period keyboards. "Critical reaction to the older piano was often unfavorable," the story said, citing a review in _The Record Guide _from 1955.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Anyone heard this one? (Beaux Arts Trio + Haitink/London Philharmonic)-sounds like a perfect match, though in fairness I'm not familiar with any of Haitink's Beethoven._

I've heard it. Recordings like theirs have a style far different than recordings with three virtuoso soloists -- more unanimity and blend, less individualism -- that's more in keeping with the concerto grosso background. I prefer the one from Suk Trio with the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra to that one though any fan of Beaux Arts would be happy with it.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Sorry but the usual way to talk about standards in the English language is in terms of 'higher or 'lower'. For example, "The standard of orchestral playing in the concert was of a high standard." If we talk horizontally we usually refer to 'tastes'.


We are very impressed with your vertical standards promoting elitism.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bulldog said:


> We are very impressed with your vertical standards promoting elitism.


That's great! As a working class lad I just felt a statement like "[he] like most of us, has his own standards and won't compromise them" smacked of a certain elitism but I realise it is now my working class values that got in the way! Thanks for your kind instruction! :tiphat:


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Without wanting to depose the big Oistrakh, Rostropovich and Richter version, there are a good few I have enjoyed a lot including ...


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> The only big-name trio to record this work with a view to marketing were the Russians under Karajan.


Szeryng/Starker/Arrau??? Mutter/Ma/Barenboim??? Perlman/Ma/Barenboim???


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> Szeryng/Starker/Arrau??? Mutter/Ma/Barenboim??? Perlman/Ma/Barenboim???


Maybe recently the latest one with Mutter. But not the others as I remember


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Szeryng/Starker/Arrau is low voltage...still good but more like chamber music style maybe. Perlman/Ma/Barenboim is live and I think very good. I recently listen to the old Karajan/Mutter/Ma and it seem too lethargic. I still like the old Stern/Rose/??/Ormandy version.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Maybe recently the latest one with Mutter. But not the others as I remember


Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of bringing in three top-flight soloists to record a concerto with a world-class orchestra, that label is looking to sell the product. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their fuzzy little hearts. This has always been true; it certainly was when the recordings I listed were recorded.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

wkasimer said:


> Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of bringing in three top-flight soloists to record a concerto with a world-class orchestra, that label is looking to sell the product. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their fuzzy little hearts. This has always been true; it certainly was when the recordings I listed were recorded.


Make that:
Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of _releasing/re-issuing/remastering/marketing a recording_, that label is looking to sell the product.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

NLAdriaan said:


> Make that:
> Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of _releasing/re-issuing/remastering/marketing a recording_, that label is looking to sell the product.


True enough, but once the recording is in the can, those things are relatively easy. But recording is another story - can you imagine just how difficult it must be to get three highly-in-demand soloists, a major orchestra, and a great conductor in the same place at the same time?


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

wkasimer said:


> True enough, but once the recording is in the can, those things are relatively easy. But recording is another story - can you imagine just how difficult it must be to get three highly-in-demand soloists, a major orchestra, and a great conductor in the same place at the same time?


New attempt:
Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of _producing/recording_/releasing/re-issuing/remastering/marketing a recording, that label is looking to sell the product.


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

So, reviews mostly seem to be high praise. Am I missing something truly special by not having the EMI recording, or is it mostly a stunt?


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

JAS said:


> So, reviews mostly seem to be high praise. Am I missing something truly special by not having the EMI recording, or is it mostly a stunt?


Personally, I think that's it's the latter. Not the worst recording of its kind, but there are better Triples out there.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> Sorry, but any time a label goes to the trouble and effort of bringing in three top-flight soloists to record a concerto with a world-class orchestra, that label is looking to sell the product. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their fuzzy little hearts. This has always been true; it certainly was when the recordings I listed were recorded.


Of course it's true but I can't remember Szeryng/Starker/Arrau being released to any great fanfare whereas the Karajan / Russians one certainly was in the Beethoven year. It was advertised as 'The Sensation of the Beethoven Year'.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

JAS said:


> So, reviews mostly seem to be high praise. Am I missing something truly special by not having the EMI recording, or is it mostly a stunt?


It's a very good recording. Of course, there are those who want to diss it because it is conducted by Karajan but altogether it is very good. But the Stern / Rose / Istomin is also terrific


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

A few days ago I spent the day with a close friend, a distinguished composer who was my main composition teacher when I was an undergrad and has remained my music mentor.

We discussed numerous pieces of music, including the Beethoven Triple Concerto. This morning I was doing a Google search for various TalkClassical threads and came upon this one and thought I would post.

I have the 1970 Angel/EMI Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Richter/Von Karajan/Berlin Phil LP which I purchased back in the 70s. The liner notes written by musicologist Deryck Cooke are excellent. In them, among other things, he addresses the difficulties/challenges Beethoven faced in composing such a work…and how he overcame them. I also found online a 2013 Stereo Times review of the album by Russell Lichter who references Cooke's notes. I am too lazy to type all of Cooke's notes but here are the first two paragraphs:

"Beethoven's Concerto for Piano Trio and Orchestra occupies a place apart, in his whole output and in the whole classical repertoire. In the first place, it is the only concerto for this combination by a great composer. Secondly, it is an outcast: completed in 1804, and thus belonging to the period of early masterpieces like the "Eroica" Symphony and the Violin Concerto, it has failed to achieve a comparable popularity. Thirdly, although the unusual nature of the medium and the difficulty of bringing the work off may partly explain its neglect, many musicians declare that it is so unpopular simply because its themes are so undistinguished.

Certainly the themes are of a different order from those of Beethoven's other concertos, being mainly formal in character; but the work is not thereby condemned, if we only consider what kind of a concerto it is. A great concerto (like a great symphony) may belong to one, two or all three main categories. (1) It must an outstanding work of art, a feat of imagination and technique. (2) It will often be an aesthetic feast of melodic and harmonic beauty (e.g., the violin concertos of Beethoven and Brahms). (3) It may further be a a powerfully emotional work (e.g., the D minor piano concertos of Mozart and Brahms). Beethoven's concertos (unlike some of this symphonies) normally belong to the second category, with odd moments straying into the third. All, of course, belong to the first; but the "Triple" Concerto is unusual in belonging to this category alone. Except in the slow movement it is neither music of the heart nor of the senses; but it is an outstanding work of art, a feat of imagination and technique. Its high quality lies almost entirely in its splendid formal proportions, in the mastery with which Beethoven overcame one of the knottiest problems - how to write a piano trio at all."

Now I will reference Lichter's review (about halfway through; his quotes of Cooke's notes in red):

"Cooke explains the rather formal simplicity of the thematic material by pointing out that, in order to be an actual triple concerto, the theme(s) have to be stated four times, by the orchestra, the violin, the violoncello, and the piano. This presents a very real challenge. "Obviously the use of expansively lyrical or passionate themes would result in a structure so vast as to be unmanageable; hence the formal nature of Beethoven's thematic material, which is revealed as a stroke of genius in the context."

Mr. Cooke goes on to discuss the challenge of balancing the three solo instruments in an orchestral venue. "The chief snag, of course, is the deep, dark-toned cello, which is in danger of being inaudible. Beethoven took the only course-the drastic one of bringing the instrument up out of the depths, by writing most of the time for its powerful top string…simple melodies and straight-forward study-like scales were all that he could expect from even a top-ranking cellist when playing at this precarious, exposed height, in a complex ensemble."

Jane Austin writes of one of her characters that he never looks at a woman but to notice her faults. In a similar way, the Triple Concerto may be faulted-it can be faulted for what it does not contain-emotional intensity, sustained melodic beauty-but the greater fault would lay with the trammeled listener who misses what an outstanding a work of art the Triple Concerto is. Indeed, the analytical approach is something of a trap. For while it is true that Beethoven composed other music of greater beauty and deeper emotion than the Triple Concerto, in my opinion the Allegro and especially the Largo are both beautiful and emotive. The Rondo is perhaps closer to the first category Cooke describes, a work of art that does not provide a feast. Nonetheless there is a feast to be had, in the excellence of the performance, in the flawless way the three soloists click."

I just finished listening to the piece which I hadn't heard in a while. A great work…I especially enjoy the first movement.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Instead of quoting notes, you have told us what you and your old teacher discussed about the piece... 

I think it is pretty close in quality to the violin concerto, but often the latter is as overrated as the Triple is underrated. 
Beethoven had to favor the cello because this was the best of his soloists, Anton Kraft? I think. He had to write comparably easy for the instrument he usually would have favored, the piano, because Archduke Rudolph had to be able to play it. The first movement is a bit too long and lacks the few "magical" passages that redeem the overlong first movement of the violin concerto. The finale is great fun and here the piano seems less inhibited than in the other movements.


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Kreisler jr said:


> Instead of quoting notes, you have told us what you and your old teacher discussed about the piece...
> 
> I think it is pretty close in quality to the violin concerto, but often the latter is as overrated as the Triple is underrated.
> Beethoven had to favor the cello because this was the best of his soloists, Anton Kraft? I think. He had to write comparably easy for the instrument he usually would have favored, the piano, because Archduke Rudolph had to be able to play it. The first movement is a bit too long and lacks the few "magical" passages that redeem the overlong first movement of the violin concerto. The finale is great fun and here the piano seems less inhibited than in the other movements.


First, I think you meant to type "you SHOULD (or MIGHT) have told us what you and your old teacher discussed about the piece"...maybe I am wrong.

Second, I referenced my discussion with my teacher primarily because of it coinciding (sort of) with me finding this thread today. Our discussion of the concerto was VERY brief...essentially that it was not on the level of his other concertos and that the first movement is the best of the three.

I posted the notes because I thought them excellent and germane to the thread topic. :tiphat:


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Interesting discussion. I do like the less intense side of Beethoven, and the Triple is among my favourite works by him. The slight piano part can be explained by the fact that it was composed for Beethoven's patron, the Archduke Rudolph, to play. 

I used to think that the slow movement could have been fleshed out a bit. It has this sense of sad longing so typical of Beethoven. Now I get a sense that it strengthens the work as an absorbing but brief interlude. I also love the finale, how the Polish dance tune gives it a bit of a rustic flavour.

Even though many say this is Beethoven's weakest concerto, I think its still good. Musicians don't only want to challenge themselves by playing works that are outright masterpieces, they also want to play what are seen to be lesser works. It can prove no less a challenge, in the sense that musicians still need to carefully consider how to enliven the score. They have to make music which is relatively not so great to sound great.

The first recording I heard was Beaux Arts Trio / Masur, and I later acquired Oborin / Oistrakh / Knushevitzky / Sargent. Both where excellent, but the one I retained has been mentioned many times here, Richter / Oistrakh / Rostropovich / Karajan.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

It seems that my opinion is unpopular here, but to me the Triple Concerto is a masterpiece, one of the many great concertos of the classical repertoire, comparable in quality to Beethoven's own violin concerto. Compared to this latter, I think that the first movement of the Triple is more lyric and diversified, with a much more interesting (to me) development section. I also find the last movement amazing, at least as good as the finale of the VC. And I don't think that the brevity of the slow movement makes this concerto any less fascinating, as it works (as has been said in the previous post, and I agree) as a kind of interlude.

The Richter/Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Karajan performance has always been a benchmark to me, but lately I've been more keen to hear the Mutter/Ma/Zeltser/Karajan, that also is superbly played and to my ears sounds more natural and integrated.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

The slow movement's relative brevity and its transition to the final movement are reminiscent of Beethoven's another masterpiece written around the same period, the F minor sonata, Op.57.
Also btw, it might be a coincidence, but the principal theme of the final movement 








reminds me of this fugal subject:


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> Me too, almost unbeatable.


My new favorite one is this one :


Isabelle Faust (violin), Jean-Guihen Queyras (violoncello) & Martin Helmchen (piano)

Gewandhausorchester, Herbert Blomstedt


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

But the Appassionata has a full scale slow movement, doesn't it? There are lots of other Beethoven pieces without real slow movements or rather short ones.

I am not bothering with this but one could probably show that "technically" the Triple is at least as good as the 2nd, maybe even the 1st and 3rd piano concerto. The difference is mainly that it is not an early work and it does not seem unfair to consider it less strong than the violin and 4th piano concerto written around the same time. 
It shares with them the short central movement, the main difference is that in op.58 there is a stronger contrast (and it is a very special movement) and the larghetto in op.61 is usually played at around half tempo. With historically correct tempo it would last 6 min or less, not 8-10 which would still not be as short as in op.56 and 58 but close.

I think one reason is also that Beethoven wrote so few concerti that we expect all of them to be extraordinarily great. In other cases with larger bodies of work we are not bothered by works fulfilling only point 1) in #51. In Mozart concerti or Beethoven piano sonatas we take pieces like K 451 or op.22 as part of a large variety with some more "technical" pieces, that are not emotionally that involved and have far more popular or generally more convincing works in their neighborhood.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

As I have aged and matured it has become my favorite Beethoven concerto for obvious reasons -- it doesn't storm the heavens nor does it try to say anything monumental or do more than its parts. I enjoy the interplay of the three solo instruments in the tradition of the concerto grosso. Beethoven is never otherwise represented in this area.

The concerto works best I think when the three soloists cooperate -- AKA listen to each other and not just be virtuosic -- and don't compete. My favorite recording is one of the first period performances mated to an equally fine performance of the 4th piano concerto


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Cancelled..................


----------



## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Interesting. Lebrecht calls the Karajan+3 russians one of the worst recordings ever made. He alleges that it wasn't just Richter - Oistrakh wasn't happy either. Anyway. I seem to have the recording twice - in a big EMI Richter box and an Oistrakh box. But also another Oistrakh with Oborin and Kushevitsky, Sargent conducting, 1958.
I heard the piece live here in Sydney a few months ago, before the latest lockdowns started up again, with 3 local soloists and the Sydney SO. First time ever for me.
It's OK, not great. I also played in a performance my community orchestra gave a few years ago. Did rather seem to be a cello concerto with accompaniment.


----------



## Musicaterina (Apr 5, 2020)

Unfortunately I haven't got the recording with Sol Gabetta and Giuliano Carmignola, but I can imagine that it must be good because of the musicians. In any case I love the music played by Sol Gabetta, Giuliano Garmignola and the Kammerorchester Basel. And Giovanni Antonini is an excellent conductor (and, by the way, also an excellent recorder player!).


----------

