# Mouth of babes



## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

So I let me three year old daughter pick a cd for the car trip to Grandma and Pop-Pop's house today. She picks Schoenberg against my recommendation. She listens very closely until about seventeen minutes into the Pelleas when it really starts sturming und dranging. She looks at me in the mirror and says "Daddy, this music is caPRIcious!"


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow. She has a great vocabulary and is very insightful.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A three-year-old who can listen attentively to Schoenberg's _Pelleas und Melisande_ for seventeen minutes and use the term "capricious" as opposed to the more hackneyed "bombastic" should receive an extra slice of apple pie at Grandma's and a recording of Havergal Brian's _Gothic Symphony_ from Santa.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> A three-year-old who can listen attentively to Schoenberg's _Pelleas und Melisande_ for seventeen minutes and use the term "capricious" as opposed to the more hackneyed "bombastic" should receive an extra slice of apple pie at Grandma's and a recording of Havergal Brian's _Gothic Symphony_ from Santa.


I would like to append to the above the admission that I, at age 66 and with an untold amount of capricious and bombastic music under my belt, can no longer listen attentively to Schoenberg's _Pelleas und Melisande_ for seventeen minutes. Filled with beautiful ideas though it be, I'm not surprised that Schoenberg saw no future in composing Wagnerian music dramas with no dramas to attach the music to, and understood the need for a new direction.

I'll bet your daughter will be saying much the same thing in a year or so, but far more eloquently than I.


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

Well, so far her favorite tune is "Hall of the Mountain king" so I really think she is presisely as musically mature as a 3 year old should be.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I think we definitely need to hear what she thinks about atonality and whether it exists. She could settle this debate once and for all.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Dim7 said:


> I think we definitely need to hear what she thinks about atonality and whether it exists. She could settle this debate once and for all.


How could she possibly have an opinion on such a thing after hearing Pelleas und Melisande?

It's a fine work, but perhaps a little too dense with ideas. The exact opposite of bombastic, in other words. The String Quartet No. 1 is a far tighter and (I find) more powerful piece.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Mahlerian said:


> How could she possibly have an opinion on such a thing after hearing Pelleas und Melisande?


Erm, she couldn't. I wasn't talking about Pelleas und Melisande.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

What would she think of Pelléas et Mélisande?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Thread of the day ...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> What would she think of Pelléas et Mélisande?


Perhaps she would call it "enigmatic." Wouldn't you if you were 3?


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

If she thinks Schoenberg is capricious what would she think of Stockhausen's ''Helicopter Quartet''?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Gouldanian said:


> If she thinks Schoenberg is capricious what would she think of Stockhausen's ''Helicopter Quartet''?


Maybe you _have_ to be 3...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I love every three-year-old that loves Schoenberg. If I get rich, she'll be in my will. (But you'd probably better make other plans.)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

science said:


> I love every three-year-old that loves Schoenberg. If I get rich, she'll be in my will. (But you'd probably better make other plans.)


Not quite three, but the Schoenberg Center has run programs for younger children...


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Maybe you _have_ to be 3...


I'm not sure I understand.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

motoboy said:


> So I let me three year old daughter pick a cd for the car trip to Grandma and Pop-Pop's house today. She picks Schoenberg against my recommendation. She listens very closely until about seventeen minutes into the Pelleas when it really starts sturming und dranging. She looks at me in the mirror and says "Daddy, this music is caPRIcious!"
> 
> View attachment 78314


Wonderful! Let me hereby invite you to the "Classical Music Daddies" group in this forum. I have shared there many similar stories about my children.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Your daughter is one smart little lady ! Adorable response !!!


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

I played the Stockhausen for her as much as it pained me. She looked bemused. I asked her what she thought but she would not say. I asked if she liked it and she said "yes." without great enthusiasm. 

Later I tried an experiment to see if it was all a big fluke. We listened to Langgaard's fourth symphony. I asked periodically what she thought the music sounded like. She went from happy to sad to busy to sleepy and capricious again. When the 8th movement (motif? section? playlet?) "Tired" was played she said "This music sounds lonely. I don't think this music has anyone to play with."

Yes, I think she is a genius. But then she wanted the music that starts slow and quiet then gets fast and loud (Mountain King again). So we still need to work on her taste.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

So...is this just a thread where we can all praise how amazing/genius your kid is?

I'm not seeing it personally, but maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" moments.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

violadude said:


> So...is this just a thread where we can all praise how amazing/genius your kid is?
> 
> I'm not seeing it personally, but maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" moments.


Oh come on, viola-no need to be mean spirited. Every parent thinks his child is amazing and there's nothing wrong with that.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Morimur said:


> Oh come on, viola-no need to be mean spirited.


Was that mean spirited?  Maybe slightly snarky, but nothing more than that.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

violadude said:


> So...is this just a thread where we can all praise how amazing/genius your kid is?
> 
> I'm not seeing it personally, but maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" moments.


.... This kid sounds pretty damned smart from where I'm standing. What I do have to admit, though, is that I'm a little bit butt hurt that the OP is making light of Grieg. I love Grieg.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Lukecash12 said:


> .... This kid sounds pretty damned smart from where I'm standing. What I do have to admit, though, is that I'm a little bit butt hurt that the OP is making light of Grieg. I love Grieg.


Certainly an intelligent kid, but genius? I don't know about that one.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

violadude said:


> Certainly an intelligent kid, but genius? I don't know about that one.


What is a genius anyways? An IQ of 140-150+?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> Thread of the day ...


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

violadude said:


> So...is this just a thread where we can all praise how amazing/genius your kid is?


Yes.

Or you could simply ignore it.

Seriously though, I see plenty of self-serving threads here every day and the deliberate abuse of the genius word is kind of a requirement for membership, isn't it? I know she is not a genius but where else could I brag about my kid and Schoenberg other than here?

And I was just kidding about the Grieg. It's just that after 6 times hearing it a day for several days running, it can become tedious.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

violadude said:


> So...is this just a thread where we can all praise how amazing/genius your kid is?
> 
> I'm not seeing it personally, but maybe it's one of those "you had to be there" moments.


Well, the anecdote brought a smile from me, and that seems a pretty good return on my minute's investment in reading. Thanks for sharing.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't think the OP did this thread mainly to brag.
As a dad of a 3-year old myself, I know how amusing and unexpected their comments can be, and if those happen to be on music, especially if touching a subject which has been very discussed here, then I totally understand the OP's intentions.
Even if only a statistically meaningless, but still factual, contribution to the question "Is the preference for tonal music innate?" (or other, more precise wordings), it is curious enough to report.

All of the above, of course, was just an introduction to my own bit of bragging.

So, I proposed to little E. the beginning of Beethoven's 9th. "Do you like it?". "No".
I switched to Schoenby's Piano concerto. "Do you like it?". "Yeeees!".


PS: no, to be serious again, I don't see why one would brag about his kid not liking the 9th?!?

PS2: also, I am certainly not bragging about his vocabulary.


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

*Pelleas and Melisande* by Schoenberg - My friends 3yr old began doing a ballet dance that last for the length of the piece and then she said: Refreshing! Such an astute child...


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