# Clichéd, or just overplayed?



## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Definition of clichéd from thefreedictionary.com: Having become stale or commonplace through overuse; hackneyed

1. What do you consider a clichéd piece?

2. Does playing a piece too often make it clichéd?

3. Does it make us dislike a piece if it is overplayed? 

4. Are we embarrassed to admit we enjoy some of these?

5. Are they only for "newbies"?

6. What overplayed pieces do you love or hate?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

1. What do you consider a clichéd piece?

"Bolero" and "1812 Overture." These are some of the worst examples of cliched pieces I've ever heard.

2. Does playing a piece too often make it clichéd?

I'm not sure, but having to hear it 20 million times doesn't help. 

3. Does it make us dislike a piece if it is overplayed?

Not necessarily. You can dislike a piece even if you've only heard 3 times. This is more of a question of personal taste.

4. Are we embarrassed to admit we enjoy some of these?

I'm not sure about this question. For me, I either like a piece or I do not.

5. Are they only for "newbies"?

I wouldn't even play "Bolero" or "1812 Overture" for newbies. That's how badly I despise these pieces.

6. What overplayed pieces do you love or hate?

See answer to question number one.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Pieces only become clichés if they're abused by the media and used in adverts etc.


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

1. What do you consider a clichéd piece?

Pachelbel's Cannon in D

2. Does playing a piece too often make it clichéd?

No. A piece becomes clichéd when people in popular culture find a classical tune that is popular, pounce on it and make millions of cheezy variations. How many times have you hears Holst's "Mars" in the movies? A lot!

3. Does it make us dislike a piece if it is overplayed?

Dislike is a highly subjective attitude. In my experience, no.

4. Are we embarrassed to admit we enjoy some of these?

I'm not.

5. Are they only for "newbies"?

They will certainly encourage newbies to discover more.

6. What overplayed pieces do you love or hate?

I love Mozart Piano Concerto 21.
I hate nothing.


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Herzeleide said:


> Pieces only become clichés if they're abused by the media and used in adverts etc.


Exactly. The question is; should we allow this?


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Definition of clichéd from thefreedictionary.com: Having become stale or commonplace through overuse; hackneyed

1. What do you consider a clichéd piece?
1812, Canon in D, O Fortuna, Spring from Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Ride of the Valyries, Eine kleine Nactmuzik, Nutcracker Suite, Dance of the Hours, just to name a few of the top of my well-developed cranium.

2. Does playing a piece too often make it clichéd?
Well, playing it in a proper artistic context, no. I agree with Herzelied. When these pieces make their way into movies trailers, commericals, ring tones and elevator Muzak, then they are likely doomed into become the ultimate is "doesn't that sound pretty" background music.

3. Does it make us dislike a piece if it is overplayed?
It can, which is a shame. As much as I cannot stand Vivaldi anyway, I feel sorry that what is, one of his greatest works (Four Seasons), has become nothing more than "please hold the line" music is our general conciousness. It gives the music (by no fault of its own) a cheesy feel to it, which can induce crawling skin if heard out of context,

4. Are we embarrassed to admit we enjoy some of these?
No, we should not be because, remember, before the great works were hijacked my the mainstream media, they were legitimate works of musical art. I love 1812 and Ride of the Valkyries, by the way, and I have no shame in admitting that.

5. Are they only for "newbies"?
Well, newbies are likely to have heard cliched works before they plunge deeper into the realms of "lesser-known" works. I would not say that cliched music is the music of the uninitiated per se, but likely some of the first music that the uninitiated are likely to hear first.

6. What overplayed pieces do you love or hate?
I love 1812, Carmina Burana, Valkyries. I cannot stand Canon in D, the Four Seasons, Eine kleine Nachtmuzik, Dance of the Hours and the Nutcracker Suite.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Canon in D: Already the most grotesque thing every invented, even before the awful media made it into the every-day church and wedding piece.

Tchaikovsky and Vivaldi: Two composers that major works have been bent and broken by the media to a point of absolute grotesqueness. 

Surprisingly, Mozart, which the media seems to celebrate as the greatest composer, along with Beethoven, has not suffered this treatment. (with the exception of Eine Kleine)

Any thoughts on Beethoven's 5th and 9th? or the "Moonlight Sonata" that all novices seem to rave about?


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

airad2 said:


> Canon in D: Already the most grotesque thing every invented, even before the awful media made it into the every-day church and wedding piece.




Rubbish. It escapes any accusation of superficiality by the fact that it's a canon. I know from experience that it's hard writing a canon with the kind of elegance that Pachelbel achieves.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

1. What do you consider a clichéd piece?
Not necessarily overplayed, but over-hyped, per everyone's reasoning above.

2. Does playing a piece too often make it clichéd?
No. I can hear Beethoven's 9th a hundred times and not consider it clichéd. I can hear the Canon in D once and consider it a cliche of itself.

3. Does it make us dislike a piece if it is overplayed?
For me it only makes me a little bored with it for a time, unless it is clichéd by the above criteria.

4. Are we embarrassed to admit we enjoy some of these?
I do still like most of the old warhorses. Most became popular for a reason.

5. Are they only for "newbies"?
I enjoy rediscovering the pieces I loved when I was young and a new fan. I will often have new insights into the music. It doesn't hurt that recording has improved a bit since the late 60's.

6. What overplayed pieces do you love or hate?
I love all Beethoven Symphonies and the bagatelle _Fur Elise_, Dvorak's Symphony No. 9 (though I really don't need to hear it ever again), _O Fortuna_, and Handel's _The Messiah_ oratorio.

I rather loathe the _Canon in D, Night on Bald Mountain,_ and most of all Mozart's _Piano Sonata in C, K.545_. I would rather listen to scales all day than hear the latter piece ever again.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

airad2 said:


> Canon in D: Already the most grotesque thing every invented, even before the awful media made it into the every-day church and wedding piece.
> 
> Tchaikovsky and Vivaldi: Two composers that major works have been bent and broken by the media to a point of absolute grotesqueness.
> 
> ...


While everyone knows the "dum dum dum DUM" of Beethoven's 5th, or the big tune from the 9th, I think these works have somehow avoided becoming lousy cliche. Moonlight Sonata is less-known in the public ear, but still comes dangerously close to being cliche, but I'd say it's not, either.

All three are great works and I tire not of hearing them.


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## vavaving (Apr 20, 2009)

I prefer the ascription of "evergreen" to cliche. Food analogies are always nice, i.e. "creampuffs" or "lollipops" (referring to showpieces), apparently marketed "for kids" or "babies", or to make one "smarter". Let's all attempt redefine music which speaks for itself...

You know what the cliche really is? Senseless variety.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

vavaving said:


> I prefer the ascription of "evergreen" to cliche. Food analogies are always nice, i.e. "creampuffs" or "lollipops" (referring to showpieces), apparently marketed "for kids" or "babies", or to make one "smarter". Let's all attempt redefine music which speaks for itself...
> 
> You know what the cliche really is? Senseless variety.


Great comments.

What do you folks think of "pops" concerts, then, where the lollipops and the creampuffs are paraded for mom, dad and the kids on a Sunday afternoon matinee? Do these types of concerts lend to the "downgrading" and "cliche" status of some of the works we've mentioned?


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

airad2 said:


> Tchaikovsky and Vivaldi: Two composers that major works have been bent and broken by the media to a point of absolute grotesqueness.


I believe Vivaldi has been most hurt in this way. However, good music does not bend nor break  Vivaldi is only perceived this way by those who are not familiar with his other works. And by the way, it is not the whole "Four Seasons" that people find cliched, it is just the first few bars that have been overplayed and abused. However, I happen to have listened to other pieces and even the first few bars of the Spring gained new life and authenticity when played by the right people, like Giuliano Carmignola.

Vivaldi also wrote vocal works and many of them sound rather dark - try this one:






The vocal comes in at about 1:17.

The process of abuse may also often be reversed. It did happen to me that I first heard certain pieces in a bastardised form as ringtones and then found the best performance and discovered their true beauty. Pop culture separates listeners from most true art by stuffing their lives with plastic&electricity substitutes. Therefore, a ringtone on a noisy and tasteless cellphone can become an orifice through which one may see another world beyond the mundane


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

airad2 said:


> Any thoughts on Beethoven's 5th and 9th? or the "Moonlight Sonata" that all novices seem to rave about?


I am not a big fan of Beethoven's 5th. It's far too overplayed & always present on radio & concert programs. (I even prefer the relatively lightweight 8th to it. I don't mind the other two works mentioned, though they are not my favourites by him). What Beethoven originally did was quite revolutionary - a symphony which progresses from darkness to light, from tragedy to triumph. Of course, this narrative subsequently became a cliche. For example, it was done by Shostakovich in his own 5th. But we can't blame Beethoven for doing this in the first place. It's just that composers have copied his narrative.

I think that so-called 'cliched' pieces of music can still be good pieces of music, but we must remember that often, the composer had no idea that they would become so successful. For example, Sibelius regretted selling the rights to _Valse Triste_ as it later became his greatest hit. & most people probably already know that Vivaldi's _Four Seasons_ languished in relative obscurity until it began to be recorded & performed in the C20th.


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## David C Coleman (Nov 23, 2007)

In defense of overplayed, cliched works, it got me into classical music when I was knee-high to a grasshopper!. It seemd a logical step to take to listen to Bruckner and Mahler after that!...


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