# Sibelius - recommended symphony recordings please!



## FPwtc

I have a box set of Sibelius' complete symphonies by the Chamber Orchestra of Europe conducted by Paavo Bergland. This is the first Sibelius collection I bought and I have enjoyed it for years and been happy with the recordings. However I now want to dig a bit deeper and get some other recordings of the individual symphonies. Can anyone recommend some definitive recordings I may enjoy? I particularly enjoy the 4th and the 7th but I am keen to hear performances of each one to get a fuller view of these great works.

Thanks!


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## Triplets

I have the set that you have on my phone ,purchased as an inexpensive MP3 download. The same Conductor made 3 complete cycles, the finest being with the Bournemouth Symphony.
I will recommend a mix and match from various cycles.
#1 Vladimir Azhkenazy /Philharmonia Orchestra
2-Bergland/Bournemouth or Monteux/LSO
3-this diminutive work is the hardest to get right. Conductors such as Bernstein and Maaezel completely overinflate it. My favorite is Saraste with the Helsinki Radio Orchestra, difficult to find. Osmo Vanska with either Lahti or Minnesota or Colin Davis with Boston are safe bets
4-IMO, one recording completely sweeps the field--Von Karajan/Berlin on EMI (Warner). I think this is the Conductors greatest single recording, and that is saying something.
5-a zillion good choices here, probably Sibelius most performed work, it 's almost Conductor proof. I currently am enjoying Davis/Boston and Vanska/Minnesota, both in SACD.
6-the composers most enigmatic work, but many fine versions. Bergland, Vanska, and Blomstedt are all good, but Barbirolli/Halle
Is my favorite 
7- again, a lot of great choices. Bernstein or Ormandy do well here, but Vanska/Lahti catches the desolation in a crystal clear BIS recording.
Don't forget Tapiola, which may be His finest Work. Karajan triumphs here as well. And for the finest, most Symphonic version of the VC, you have to hear Francescatti/Bernstein


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## techniquest

Considering how cheaply you can buy some Sibelius sets these days, I'd happily suggest trying Berglund's other cycle with the Bournemouth SO on EMI Classics - I think you'd find this to be a very interesting comparison.
I have a really nice 2-disc set of Symphonies 1,2,3 & 5 along with Finlandia, Andante Festivo and Vase Triste with the Oslo PO under Mariss Jansons on Warner Classics which is well worth picking up too.


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## Pugg

Vladimir Azhkenazy /Philharmonia Orchestra and Karajan/Berlin on now Warner will do it for me.


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## Headphone Hermit

Sir Thomas Beecham was regarded very highly in the 1950s for his recordings of Sibelius - they are powerful and interesting performances that still sound very good more than 50 years later


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## Pat Fairlea

Vanska/Lahti for authentic bleakness. An honourable mention for Pietari Inkinen and the NZ Symphony Orchestra, whose recordings on Naxos have good sound quality and an intelligent understanding of these very different symphonies. In particular, Inkinen manages to hold back the tempo at times in order to give the music room to breathe without losing the overall shape and drive. Particularly lovely 6th symphony.


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## Brahmsian Colors

I agree with Pat Fairlea on Vanska/Lahti, especially their Fourth and Sixth. Though in mono sound, and quite good at that, I think Anthony Collins' Sibelius set is top notch in virtually all interpretive aspects. Otherwise, I would recommend Maazel/Vienna Philharmonic in the First, Fourth and Seventh, Okko Kamu/Berlin Philharmonic or Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra for the Second, Kamu for the Third with Helsinki Radio Symphony and Bernstein/NY Philharmonic for the Fifth.

Forgot to mention another very fine Sibelius First: Stokowski with the National Philharmonic.


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## Heck148

Get Bernstein/NYPO/Sony complete set....
entire set is excellent -

#1 Bernstein/NYPO is top level, all the way [the Stokowski/NatPO is good too]
#2 - Monteux/LSO, Stokowski/NBC
#3, 4 - Lenny's NYPO for me; Toscanini/NBC very good #4
#5 - Bernstein/NYPO all the way - one of his best ever of anything.
#6 - Bernstein is good, but I don't really connect with this piece.
#7 - Bernstein/NYPO, Rozh'sky/USSR is excellent too...


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## Triplets

Heck148 said:


> Get Bernstein/NYPO/Sony complete set....
> entire set is excellent -
> 
> #1 Bernstein/NYPO is top level, all the way [the Stokowski/NatPO is good too]
> #2 - Monteux/LSO, Stokowski/NBC
> #3, 4 - Lenny's NYPO for me; Toscanini/NBC very good #4
> #5 - Bernstein/NYPO all the way - one of his best ever of anything.
> #6 - Bernstein is good, but I don't really connect with this piece.
> #7 - Bernstein/NYPO, Rozh'sky/USSR is excellent too...


I love LB most of the time, but except for the VC, really disliked the Sibelius set


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## JACE

Some of my favorites:

No. 1 - Stokowski, National PO; Barbirolli, Hallé O
No. 2 - Ormandy, Philadelphia O
No. 3 - Ashkenazy, Philharmonia O
No. 4 - Barbirolli, Hallé O
No. 5 - Ashkenazy, Philharmonia O; Vänskä, Lahti SO
No. 6 - Barbirolli, Hallé O; Berglund, Helsinki PO
No. 7 - Ormandy, Philadelphia O

Violin Concerto - Oistrakh, Ormandy, Philadelphia O

FPwtc -- Since they are so inexpensive, you might want to consider the sets of either Barbirolli or Ormandy. (Since you mentioned them, I think Barbirolli is particularly strong in Fourth and Sixth; also, please note that these two particular symphonies are NOT included in Ormandy's set.)

















Both Barbirolli & Ormandy offer "warmer," Romantic approaches to Sibelius' sound world, and they would provide a nice contrast with Berglund, who's interpretive approach is generally "cooler" and more Modern.


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## Heck148

Triplets said:


> I love LB most of the time, but except for the VC, really disliked the Sibelius set


Bernstein's approach is certainly big, brawny, brassy and muscular...I think it fits the music perfectly...NYPO has just the right sound..


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## FPwtc

Some great suggestions thanks very much!


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## starthrower

techniquest said:


> Considering how cheaply you can buy some Sibelius sets these days, I'd happily suggest trying Berglund's other cycle with the Bournemouth SO on EMI Classics - I think you'd find this to be a very interesting comparison.


Around 10 dollars shp included. A no-brainer!


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## starthrower

JACE said:


> Both Barbirolli & Ormandy offer "warmer," Romantic approaches to Sibelius' sound world, and they would provide a nice contrast with Berglund, who's interpretive approach is generally "cooler" and more Modern.


Did Barbirolli record a complete cycle with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra? No. 2 sounds awesome on YouTube. 




Will try Ormandy next.


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## Becca

starthrower said:


> Did Barbirolli record a complete cycle with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra? No. 2 sounds awesome on YouTube.


No he didn't, the RPO 2nd was a one-oiff recording done (if I remember correctly) for Reader's Digest. To my knowledge that was the only recording he ever made with the RPO, most of his recordings being with the Halle, Philharmonia and LSO. It is a pity because that 2nd has always been very highly regarded.


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## Brahmsian Colors

starthrower said:


> Did Barbirolli record a complete cycle with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra?


Barbirolli's only complete Sibelius cycle was made with the Halle Orchestra of Manchester.


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## Heck148

Barbirolli's #2 with RoyalPO is very good...


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## njk345

Has anyone heard the recent NY Phil recording of the 2nd with John Storgards? I saw the concert live (it was really, really tremendous), and I stumbled upon it on iTunes today—it's surprisingly good for a live recording not really intended for album form. Luscious strings (I've found NY's always been great at long, drawn-out passionate phrasing), delicate woodwinds, and a super energized and passionate brass section.


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## Haydn man

The Colin Davis LSO Cycle is definitely worth considering. Sir Colin was a noted Sibelius conductor and this is the set that I have.
I have also listened to and can also endorse the Vanska/Lahti set
Such great music and so reasonable in price


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## hpowders

I don't think you can do better than Sir Colin Davis' first complete set with the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

What I love about the set is it includes the best performances of Symphonies 3 and 6 that I have ever heard.


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## Vaneyes

All with BPO/Philharmonia/HvK (EMI, rec.1960 - '81); Symphony 3, w Oslo PO/Jansons (EMI, rec.1994); Symphony 7, w. RPO/Beecham (EMI, rec.1955). :tiphat:


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## sbmonty

Several have mentioned Vänskä/Lahti. I own it and Segerstam/Helsinki. Both are really enjoyable. The Vänskä set includes both the 1915 and 1919 final version of No. 5. Nice to compare, though I think I prefer the final 3 movement version. The Segerstam includes the Violin Concerto with Pekka Kuusisto if you don't own the VC yet. It is beautiful!


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## GraemeG

Becca said:


> No he didn't, the RPO 2nd was a one-oiff recording done (if I remember correctly) for Reader's Digest.


Let me guess; each movement was cut down to 5 minutes each, in accordance with RD's usual editorial practice?!
cheers,
Graeme


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## Triplets

Haydn man said:


> The Colin Davis LSO Cycle is definitely worth considering. Sir Colin was a noted Sibelius conductor and this is the set that I have.
> I have also listened to and can also endorse the Vanska/Lahti set
> Such great music and so reasonable in price


The LSO live cycle is best forgotten. He sounds like a tired old man


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## jim prideaux

not necessarily definitive in any way but Oramo and the CBSO on Erato warrants more attention (as does his Schumann with Royal Stockholm!)


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## PeterF

No one has mentioned my box set which is by Neeme Jarvi / Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra. I like it quite a lot.


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## DavidA

Karajan recorded all the symphonies except no 3. His Sibelius was much admired by the composer. His tone poems are also very fine.
Beecham's second is terrific.
Violin concerto Heifetz is unbeatable either with Hendl or Beecham


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## Guest

DavidA said:


> Karajan recorded all the symphonies except no 3. His Sibelius was much admired by the composer. His tone poems are also very fine.
> Beecham's second is terrific.
> Violin concerto Heifetz is unbeatable either with Hendl or Beecham


Do you mean this recording?










Christian Ferras is also very fine.Years ago I saw Vadim Repin on television and that was also very impressive.


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## sbmonty

This cycle has just been rereleased as both Blue Ray and Redbook. Pretty respectable reviews. Packaged nicely as well.


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## Heck148

Maazel/VPO Sibelius set is good overall...doesn't match Bernstein/NYPO/Sony, but it is still very good..


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## lluissineu

Hi, just to remember that, apart from the Barbirolli's superb cicle, Sanderling with the Berlin S.O. Is an excellent choice, as well. 
I'd would also buy:
1. Vienna PO- Bernstein
2. Concertgebouw/Szell or Berlin PO/ Kamu
4. vienna PO/Maazel.
Fortunately there are a couple of good Sibelius Symphonies recordings (vanska, c. Davis, Berglund's various...)


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## WienerKonzerthaus

Here's an overview of all the complete cycles out there:

_
A Survey of Sibelius Symphony Cycles_








(Btw. I LOVE the cycle you have in Berglund III!)

Great recordings of individual performances?

You'll find Segerstam at the interpretatively vast other end and very satisfying in the 7th, I should think.
2nd with Barbirolli on Chesky/Testament. 5th with Celibidache and Lenny/NY (also that Fourth!). The Karajan - esp. the EMI recordings - is worth hearing, too. Fourth with Maazel/Vienna. Inkinen 1st & 3rd.


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## CnC Bartok

Collins, and Berglund (probably the Helsinki set)

I am amazed nobody has mentioned Collins yet. His set is remarkable from first to last, including a desert island First, a controversial Third, and a cool and nearly perfect Sixth. The other four Symphonies are superb too!

I like Vanska too, am still attached to Colin Davis, impressed by Kamu, there are some very very good sets out there!

Oh and Barbirolli's ain't bad neither....!


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## mbhaub

I collect a lot of Sibelius symphony cycles, and frankly, I've never found a "bad" one. Sibelius is not something all conductors respond to, and it's likely that only those who truly love the music ever venture for a complete set. Are some performances more exciting or emotional (starkly so) than others? Of course. But I think the average listener would be perfectly content with practically any of the sets currently available. For me, the recorded sound is quite important in this music. But to assign any one set as "the best" is meaningless. Having said that, if I had to divest myself of all but one set, the one I would keep is Blomstedt - for conducting, playing, and sound it's fantastic.


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## Malx

If up to date sound isn't critical then the "Sibelius Great Performances" box is well worth considering.

It contains the fantastic Collins complete symphonies along with other symphonies from other fine Sibelians.


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## laurie

Lots of good opinions & recommendations in this thread ~

The Best ~ & Worst! ~ Sibelius conductors?


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## Merl

I'm not a big Sibelian but I really enjoyed listening to Storgard's account of the 2nd Symphony, this morning. The first and last movements were particularly impressive.


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## KJ von NNJ

I would like to mention Sir Colin Davis and the LSO on RCA, recorded in the nineties. Great sound, great performances. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th are among the best I have heard. The 1st and 5th are good too.
This set has recently been packaged up for a bargain price by Sony through RCA. I collected the whole thing piecemeal over the course of a couple of years. 
I like Colin's Boston set. I have not heard the LSO Live series.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Robert Pickett said:


> I am amazed nobody has mentioned Collins yet. His set is remarkable from first to last...


You missed my comments in post #7. Still the finest Sibelius set I have experienced. The mono sound from Decca is very good.


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## CnC Bartok

My bad, 67!

Still have to remind myself the Collins set actually is in mono!!


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## Josquin13

Here's a interesting article from the Finnish Music Quarterly that is well worth reading, as it's important to understand that certain conductors, such as Sir Colin Davis, for example, represent the "anti-thesis" to the harder, more detailed, less "impressionist" approach of the Finnish school of Sibelius conducting--i.e., Berglund, Panula, Saraste, Kamu, etc. (which doesn't mean that Davis's Sibelius isn't worthwhile):

https://fmq.fi/articles/sibelius-the-view-from-the-podium

For me, Paavo Berglund was the finest Sibelius conductor of the modern era, while Robert Kajanus, who worked with Sibelius & premiered many of his works, was the finest of the historical period. As the above article states, Berglund discovered Sibelius's own conducting scores of the 5th, 6th, & 7th Symphonies in the possession of the Helsinki Philharmonic in the 1960s, and they contained many handwritten corrections by the composer to the original Hansen edition. Therefore, until the new Hansen edition came out in the 1980s (thanks to Berglund) all conductors were performing & recording from this error prone first Hansen edition of the last three symphonies (with the possible exception of Sir Simon Rattle, who Berglund advised for his early Philharmonia 5th & 1st Birmingham cycle).

I would add that Berglund was known to be at his best 'live', rather than in the studio, and his final "live" recordings of the 5th, 6th, & 7th with the London Philharmonic are very special. For me, these are desert island performances, especially of the 7th, which is the finest conducted 7th I've ever heard. Among Berglund's studio recordings, I most wouldn't want to be without his Symphony No. 2 from the 1st Bournemouth cycle, and the tone poems he recorded with the Philharmonia Orchestra, especially of the "Swan of Tuonela", which I've never heard bettered, not even by Berglund.

https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Sym...&qid=1523557003&sr=1-1&keywords=berglund+sacd
https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Sym...=1523557034&sr=1-5&keywords=berglund+sibelius
https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Com...=1523556941&sr=1-1&keywords=berglund+sibelius
https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Fin...&sr=1-2&keywords=berglund+sibelius+tone+poems






https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Sym...=1523556941&sr=1-2&keywords=berglund+sibelius

Other conductors I've found worthwhile in Sibelius are Sir John Barbirolli (especially for his Royal Philharmonic 2nd, though the Halle cycle is interesting too), the pioneering Dane Thomas Jensen, Hans Rosbaud, Jukka-Pekka Saraste, and Leif Segerstam; although I'm not always the biggest fan of Segerstam's two symphony cycles, as he has a tendency to draw the symphonies out too much for my tastes ("vast" is right), and at times he can lose a sense of structure, in my view (except perhaps in his Helsinki & Danish N.R.S.O. 7ths), compared to Berglund. Therefore, I tend to prefer Segerstam in the tone poems & shorter works, such as the Tempest Suites, for example, where he's brilliant, and in his current Naxos series with the Turku Philharmonic Orchestra. I'm also grateful to Osmo Vänskä for his numerous 'world premieres' of Sibelius works, such as the alternative versions of the 5th Symphony & Violin Concerto (with Leonidas Kavakos), and "The Wood-Nymph", etc.

Otherwise, I find Eugene Ormandy somewhat hit and miss in Sibelius. His Violin Concerto with David Oistrakh is a classic: https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-...1-1&keywords=ormandy+sibelius+violin+concerto (I've yet to hear the later Dylana Jensen VC recording), as is his Pohjola's Daughter, but I'm not always keen on Ormandy in the symphonies (where he has a tendency to plod in places, IMO). I've yet to get to Anthony Collin's mono cycle, or Sixten Erhling's cycle either, though Erhling's Sibelius VC with Oistrakh is a desert island disc in my collection:





https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Vi...ell&keywords=oistrakh+violin+sibelius+erhling

Among recent sets, I've most liked Sakari Oramo's Birmingham cycle on Erato, and parts of Okko Kamu's cycle on BIS--especially his 4th, which is great--though neither conductor is as fine as Berglund at his best, IMO (with the exception of Kamu's 4th). I hope to get to Petri Inkinen's live cycle in Japan, and possibly parts of his New Zealand Naxos cycle too. I've not heard Hannu Lintu's live DVD cycle either. John Storgård's cycle was a disappointment (surprisingly so, after it received favorable reviews from the British rags), though I've liked his conducting elsewhere. I was also disappointed in Sir Simon Rattle's Berlin set.

Here are several You Tube documentaries on Sibelius, which I thoroughly enjoyed:


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## jim prideaux

^^^^^nice to see Oramo's CBSO cycle getting some recognition...


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## Josquin13

jim prideaux said:


> ^^^^^nice to see Oramo's CBSO cycle getting some recognition...


Yes, yet another fine young conductor from Jorma Panula's conducting class at the Sibelius Academy. The more I hear from Oramo, the more I've liked him as a conductor. Plus, he's been a tireless champion of contemporary composers, such as Magnus Lindberg, Per Norgard, Kimmo Hakola, Anders Hillborg, John Foulds, Kaija Saariaho, Jouni Kaipainen, & others, and unjustly lesser known composers, such as Joonas Kokkonen, & Armas Launis, which I find admirable.


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## Heck148

Josquin13 said:


> Y The more I hear from Oramo, the more I've liked him as a conductor.


A few years back, I heard Oramo conduct BostonSO in a fine performance of Prokofieff Sym #6....really excellent concert...my first time hearing him conduct, he made a very favorable impression.


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## Charade

I really like the incomplete Bernstein on DG, especially the 5th symphony is the best version I have heard.


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## sibelius

The first boxed set of complete Sibelius symphonies was, curiously, by Akeo Watanabe and the Japan Philharmonic on Columbia. It was reviewed pretty well, but was probably hurt by unfamiliarity with the performers. Columbia soon replaced it with Bernstein and the NYPO. Anthony Collins had already completed the cycle on London mono, but not as a boxed set. Those performances were highly regarded. When I finally got a CD set, it was the Davis, BSO set, which was also warmly reviewed.

My favorite recording of the 2nd was by Ormandy and the Philadelphia on Columbia Odyssey. The orchestra was a bit beefed up for the performance in stereo. If that has been re-done on CD, I'd recommend it, although, from this thread, I'd say there is a wealth of great performances.


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## R3PL4Y

For 1, 5, 6, and 7 I have to go with the classic HvK/ Berlin. As for the others, these are my favorites:
2: Jarvi/Gothenburg Symphony orchestra
3: Vanska/Lahti
4: Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra


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## Konsgaard

For a complete set one of these: Ashkenazy/Philharmonia, Storgards/BBC SO or Blomstedt/San Francisco.

For 4-7 the Karajan double CD on DG originals.


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## Heck148

Sibelius is one of my favorite composers, both for listening, and performing [great bassoon parts as a rule!! ]

I know many seem to favor the various Finnish recordings of the great master's music, but I don't subscribe to it, I'm afraid....nor do I find much attraction in the von Karajan style either....

Too many of the Finnish orchestras, tho they certainly play with spirit, feature rather ratty string playing, thin sound, poor ensemble overall, not much section depth - perhaps things have improved of late, but in the past, this was a definitely negative feature....I much prefer the big, broad boned, muscular sound of Bernstein/NYPO, with virtuoso string sections - big, husky, even rough at times[intentionally]. This goes so well with the Bernstein/NYPO sound of the time - bold, aggressive winds/brass/percussion - the brasses scream and growl, the WWs project sonorously, the bassoons, basses, celli snarl in their low registers....for me, Sibelius needs some "edge", some bite to the sound....grinding sea ice, cold, wind-swept vistas, icy, frozen lakes - all part of the Sibelius palette...Toscanini/NBC realize this sound very well, also. of course, Sibelius can be very sweet and lyrical as well, and it's the contrast that helps his music be so unique. LB and AT do not miss these passages...

I dislike the von Karajan approach - everything smooth and round, nice, elegant, polished - no hard edges, no sharp points, everything smooth and pretty. no thanx...I'm not sure to what music this approach might apply, but it sure ain't Sibelius, at least for me. 
As a performer [bassoon principal], I would always be most be most sensitive to proper reed selection for the repertoire to be performed....Sibelius requires a reed with some bite, some edge, with projection, cutting power....not a more mellow, rounded sound as you might choose for Mozart or Haydn, where the tonal requirements are quite different.


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## chalkpie

^ I would disagree wholeheartedly with The Lahti Symphony containing "ratty" string playing. Not sure of the proper definition of that, but to lump almost an entire countries orchestras in that manner is quite unfair, and unfounded I would say. Both the Vanska and Segerstam sets don't contain "ratty" string playing any stretch. I am an orchestra teacher and string bass player with both a bachelors and masters in music, so my ears are attuned to this sort of thing. imo of course.


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## chill782002

No love for Sixten Ehrling's early 50s cycle with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra? Mono sound, obviously, but some great performances. I'm pretty sure this was the first complete Sibelius symphony cycle, beating the better known Collins / LSO cycle by a few months.


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## Heck148

chalkpie said:


> ^ I would disagree wholeheartedly with The Lahti Symphony containing "ratty" string playing. Not sure of the proper definition of that, but to lump almost an entire countries orchestras in that manner is quite unfair, and unfounded I would say.


Perhaps things have improved a bit in recent years, but in earlier recordings, the thin sound, poor ensemble, scrambled playing were definitely present. 
As for Lahti SO - I've only heard a couple of recordings - Aho -Sym #12 [good], and Sibelius - Karelia Music complete - pretty lame - not even close to comparable excerpts by Barbirolli/Halle and Gibson/SNO


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## chalkpie

Heck148 said:


> Perhaps things have improved a bit in recent years, but in earlier recordings, the thin sound, poor ensemble, scrambled playing were definitely present.
> As for Lahti SO - I've only heard a couple of recordings - Aho -Sym #12 [good], and Sibelius - Karelia Music complete - pretty lame - not even close to comparable excerpts by Barbirolli/Halle and Gibson/SNO







Listen to this when you have a chance. Stellar playing in every aspect - certainly no "thin" or "ratty" strings here. I can cite numerous more examples. Give Lahti a chance, they are a wonderful orchestra.


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## Heck148

My comments regarding string sections are for older recordings, in which the problems cited were pretty consistent, lots of spirit, for sure, but the sound was simply not competitive with the best...NYPO, LSO, NBCSO,etc...

I'll give another listen to the Karelia music with Vanska/LahtiSO....I was so bummed, turned off by it, that I only went back and listened to a few selections after the initial full traversal....it was just dead, dull, really lifeless....Barbirolli [Ste], Gibson [Ov] Fennell [March] are much more exciting.


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## CnC Bartok

I thoroughly agree that the Lahti band are a wonderful orchestra, but a small part of me also thinks they could even have done themselves a disservice with their complete Sibelius recordings. Too much of a good thing? I expect there are good reasons why Sibelius extracted a suite from Karelia, and quite a few other large incidental music works, to get rid of the ploddy bits, of which there are plenty. I am happy to hear the complete Karelia, Kuolema, Jedermann, Tempest, Swanwhite, even the Masonic Music*. But not more than once or twice. There are enough gems in Sibelius' output to keep me happy! Routine music can rarely be played in anything other than a routine manner.

*I'll listen to the King Kristian music whenever I can, in whatever form, it's one of my favourite bits of Sibelius!


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## chalkpie

Heck148 said:


> My comments regarding string sections are for older recordings, in which the problems cited were pretty consistent, lots of spirit, for sure, but the sound was simply not competitive with the best...NYPO, LSO, NBCSO,etc...
> 
> I'll give another listen to the Karelia music with Vanska/LahtiSO....I was so bummed, turned off by it, that I only went back and listened to a few selections after the initial full traversal....it was just dead, dull, really lifeless....Barbirolli [Ste], Gibson [Ov] Fennell [March] are much more exciting.


OK, so out of respect for the current orchestras out of Finland (Lahti SO, Helsinki PO), it may be a better idea to not throw them under the bus publicly based on an older recording that you may have heard a few times. I am not trying to bait you in any way, merely offering my opinion to possess current accurate knowledge and insight before making such vast sweeping negative generalizations about something, especially when it could potentially turn off prospective listeners and purchasers of their recordings. Cheers.


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## chalkpie

Robert Pickett said:


> I thoroughly agree that the Lahti band are a wonderful orchestra, but a small part of me also thinks they could even have done themselves a disservice with their complete Sibelius recordings. Too much of a good thing?


Can you please elaborate on exactly what you mean here? I think its a wonderful thing that they took on the task to record virtually all (most) of Sibelius' output even if there are a few less than stellar recordings in the lot. imo.


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## Mal

Karelia might be be a weak point for Vanska/Lahti. You can't dismiss an orchestra for one inferior performance, especially one that gets such high plaudits from critics in many other performances.


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## Heck148

chalkpie said:


> OK, so out of respect for the current orchestras out of Finland (Lahti SO, Helsinki PO), it may be a better idea to not throw them under the bus publicly based on an older recording that you may have heard a few times.


I call 'em as I hear 'em...if the strings sound thin and ratty, I say so...if that affects some potential buyer/listener in some way, so be it..everyone is free to buy, and enjoy what they want.


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## Heck148

Mal said:


> Karelia might be be a weak point for Vanska/Lahti. You can't dismiss an orchestra for one inferior performance, especially one that gets such high plaudits from critics in many other performances.


I do have the Aho Sym #12, which is good....I've nothing with which to compare it, and it is not really standard repertoire...still, it's enjoyable, and sounds well-played and recorded.


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## Mal

Heck148 said:


> I call 'em as I hear 'em...if the strings sound thin and ratty, I say so...if that affects some potential buyer/listener in some way, so be it..everyone is free to buy, and enjoy what they want.


That's fair enough, I think people should call out individual performances that they don't like and give reasons why they don't like it; and you may be spotting a problem that the professional critics might agree with - for instance, the Rough Guide to Classical Music doesn't choose Vanska/Lahti for Karelia, although they are first choice for several other pieces.


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## CnC Bartok

chalkpie said:


> Can you please elaborate on exactly what you mean here? I think its a wonderful thing that they took on the task to record virtually all (most) of Sibelius' output even if there are a few less than stellar recordings in the lot. imo.


Very happy to elaborate. As far as I am concerned, any orchestra, even the {insert name of your favourite orchestra here} will sound bland and indifferent in what is bland and indifferent music.

Personally I am delighted to have the full versions of Sibelius' incidental musics, played by an orchestra that are fine and well attuned to the "Sibelius sound". It's great to have the more familiar suites' music heard in a different but pertinent context. And I'm a completist to the extent it's an affliction. If a piece of music by a favoured composer comes to light, I'll be in there like a rat up a drainpipe.

But sorry, the full scores of some of Sibelius works are a tad d u. l. l....... Not even the Lahti guys and gals can rescue them. I generally much much prefer the suites, they contain the best music.

Just an opinion, mind.


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## Josquin13

As an overview, I'd recommend considering (and sampling from) the following Sibelius recordings for each symphony, & have placed an asterisk next to those that are extra special, in my view: please note that where I've indicated "historical" the sound quality isn't good (though some historical recordings are better than others):

Symphony #1--*Berglund, Bournemouth S.O., EMI; Kajanus, London Symphony Orchestra (historical), *Gibson, Uppsala Chamber Orchestra (a very good Swedish orchestra--does anyone know the dates for these Gibson recordings? which can be heard on YT); Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra (historical, 1941).

Symphony #2--*Berglund, Bournemouth S.O., EMI;*Koussevitzky, Boston S.O. (historical, 1935, but not the later 1940 recording, which isn't as good, IMO); *Gibson, Uppsala Chamber Orchestra; *Barbirolli, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Chesky; *Szell, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Philips; Berglund, London Philharmonic, LPO live, hybrid SACD; Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra (1957 Sony, & to a lesser degree his later RCA Gold Seal recording); Berglund, Helsinki Philharmonic, EMI, & Monteux, London Symphony Orchestra, Decca (1958).

Symphony #3--Berglund, Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Finlandia (Berglund uses a smaller orchestra here, which is what Sibelius told his son-in-law, Jussi Jalas, he wanted for the 3rd--in order that the woodwinds don't get "almost wiped out" by the viola section)--yet frustratingly, Finlandia has recorded the woodwinds somewhat distantly; Kajanus, London Symphony Orchestra (historical); Kamu, Helsinki Radio S.O., DG; Gibson, Scottish National Orchestra, Saga (1965), & Saraste, Finnish Radio S.O., RCA.

Symphony #4--*Berglund, Bournemouth S.O., EMI; *Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra, Columbia (historical, but decent sound, 1954: the famous "Philly strings" excel in the 4th);*Kamu, Lahti S.O.. BIS hybrid SACD; Berglund, Helsinki Philharmonic; Beecham, London Philharmonic Orchestra, BBC (historical).

Symphony #5--*Berglund, London Philharmonic, LPO live hybrid SACD; *Barbirolli, Hallé Orchestra; Berglund, Chamber Orchestra of Europe (expanded to full size), Bournemouth S.O., & the Helsinki Philharmonic, on Finlandia & EMI; *Bernstein, NYPO, Columbia/Sony; Gibson, London Symphony Orchestra, Decca (1959); Kajanus, London Symphony Orchestra (historical), & Tuxen, Danish State R.S.O., Decca eclipse (historical). (Karajan's 1977 Berlin Philharmonic recording on EMI is good too, but not a personal favorite. At some point, I should go back and revisit Sir Simon Rattle's early Sibelius 5ths, with the Philharmonia & City of Birmingham Orchestras, as it's been a while since I've heard those recordings.)

Original version of the 5th: Vänskä, Lahti S.O., BIS.

Symphony #6--*Berglund, London Philharmonic, LPO live, hybrid SACD; Berglund, both his *Bournemouth S.O. & Helsinki Philharmonic recordings, EMI), Barbirolli, Halle Orchestra; EMI, & Schnéevoight, Finnish National Orchestra (historical).

Symphony #7--**Berglund, London Philharmonic, LPO live, hybrid SACD--his swansong & my favorite version of the 7th, *Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra (1960--Sony Essential Classics--recorded not long after Sibelius's death & Ormandy and the orchestra's pilgrimage to Järvenpää, where they met Sibelius: it's an inspired performance); *Segerstam, Danish National S.O., Chandos, & Berglund, both the Bournemouth S.O. & Helsinki Philharmonic recordings, EMI.

Generally speaking, I would consider Ormandy's earlier Philadelphia recordings to be his best, & preferable to his 1970s RCA recordings--with the exception of his 1978 Lemminkäinen Suite--as they tend to show more drive & imagination. Indeed, Ormandy's 1960 7th represents him at his best in Sibelius, IMO. In comparison, I find Beecham to be a bit overrated in the 7th. I've not heard Mravinsky's 1965 recording, but have read that it is modeled after Ormandy's 1960 account. I consider the Sibelius 7th to be one the greatest symphonies ever composed.

Kullervo--*Berglund, Bournemouth, EMI (world premiere studio recording, 1971), EMI; *Berglund, Helsinki Philharmonic recording, EMI (digital); Segerstam, Helsinki Philharmonic, Ondine; Jorma Panula, Turku Philharmonic, Naxos; Saraste, Finnish Radio S.O. Finlandia, & Vänskä, Lahti S.O., BIS.

My 7 favorite Sibelius cycles: *Berglund's Bournemouth & Helsinki cycles; *Barbirolli's Hallé cycle (though Barbirolli can, at times, offer more personal--even quirky--interpretations, which doesn't tend to get recognized, nor is the Hallé Orchestra's playing exactly flawless--yet, it's a terrific cycle); *Saraste's Finnish Radio S.O. cycle (*RCA, studio, and Saraste's 'live in Russia' Finlandia cycle is good too); *Segerstam, Danish National S.O. cycle, Chandos (& parts of Segerstam's later Helsinki cycle too--but the Helsinki set isn't overall a favorite of mine), & Sir Alexander Gibson, Royal Scottish Orchestra, Chandos. I like that Gibson never forces or overdoes anything, yet he provides plenty of zest when needed, and pays close attention to the musical architecture; yet, I tend to prefer Gibson's earlier Decca, Saga, & Uppsala Sibelius recordings to his Chandos recordings.





https://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Com...=1525559445&sr=1-2&keywords=berglund+sibelius

Unfortunately, there isn't a complete cycle from Ormandy (as he said he didn't understand the 3rd & 6th), or any Sibelius symphonies by the pioneering Dane Thomas Jensen (who played in a Danish orchestra that Sibelius conducted in the 1924 and 1926), or a full cycle from the composer's friend, Robert Kajanus, either. Nor have I've heard any Sibelius symphony recordings from Hans Rosbaud or Eduard Van Beinum, who are both highly respected Sibelius conductors. Regarding Osmo Vänskä's Lahti S.O. cycle, I have a problem with the wide dynamic range of the BIS recordings--which, admittedly, may be system dependent, as others don't seem to mind it. (I've yet to hear any of Vänskä's more recent Minnesota cycle.) As for Karajan, I tend to prefer his later EMI Sibelius recordings to the DG ones, but he's not a favorite Sibelius conductor of mine.

I've not heard the cycles by Erhling, Collins, Sanderling, Blomstedt, Bernstein on Columbia/Sony (except for the 5th), Lintu, Sakari, or either of Inkinen's two cycles, in New Zealand, Naxos, and Japan live. I'd take a pass on Storgards cycle (though I've liked his conducting elsewhere), Rattle's Berlin cycle, and N. Jaarvi's DG cycle (though I liked some of Jaarvi's earlier BIS recordings). Among recent cycles, I've most liked Sakari Oramo's cycle in Birmingham, on Erato.


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## Josquin13

In regards to the Lahti S.O.'s string section, the Finnish conductors & orchestras deliberately thin down and harden the sound of their string sections. And, as with Berglund, they tend to use less vibrato in the strings. That's the Finnish way, generally. So, if you want thick, lush, outsized string playing in Sibelius, you'd probably do best to avoid most of the Finnish conductors, since that's not their tradition in this music.


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## jim prideaux

Josquin13....

COE-Berglund.....glad to see recognition of the recording of the 3rd as I listened again yesterday and to my mind the performance is the best I have heard....astringent and precise!

also.....Oramo and CBSO.....the cycle does not get the acknowledgement it deserves.


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## les24preludes

I lived in Norway for 6 years and toured a lot of the country from North to South as a musician. This gave me a good idea of Norwegian culture and how it varies from season to season and place to place. I hear in Sibelius what I experienced - fear of the extremes of nature, love for the woods and lakes, joy in Springtime and Summer, introverted moody winters. What I didn't experience was any kind of show-off exhibitionism. 

So I don't feel any affinity for versions of Sibelius that ratchet up the energy like Szell, Barbirolli et al. Critics seem to like energetic, dramatic interpretations of orchestra works and call more reflective versions "underpowered". I'm the opposite. In Sibelius I want to hear foreboding, but of a broody kind, and I want to hear simple joy and a feeling of closeness with nature. 

I can listen to the occasional Ormandy or even Mravinsky because of their kind they're well conceived and played. Curiously I get nothing out of Berglund, though I have more time for other Scandinavian conductors. The closest whole cycle by a long way for me is Segerstam's Danish one. Speeds slow enough to bring out detail, and no showy melodrama. Flexible tempi and speed changes. For me it's very, very well done.


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## Heck148

Mal said:


> That's fair enough, I think people should call out individual performances that they don't like and give reasons why they don't like it; and you may be spotting a problem that the professional critics might agree with - for instance, the Rough Guide to Classical Music doesn't choose Vanska/Lahti for Karelia, although they are first choice for several other pieces.


Is the LahtiSO a small orchestra?? I mean, quasi-chamber orchestra size?? I ask because on re-listening to the complete Karelia music, the sound seems rather small...perhaps it's the recording setup - but the brass and winds seem subdued, almost recessed. the crescendi, the fortissimos simply don't deliver the sonic wallop, the volume, to be heard on other versions...I'm wondering f the orchestra uses a smaller string section [??]....
I'm comparing to Barbirolli/Halle, Gibson/Scottish Nat'l [before they became "Royal"] - plenty of volume with these groups, esp Barbirolli/Halle. and let's face it - neither Halle or Scottish Nat'l are on the very top level of great orchestras....good groups, for sure...but not consistently at the highest level. [tho Sir John's disc is top drawer all the way - great Lemmink'n Return]


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## jim prideaux

listened to Berglund and the COE performance of the 3rd again this morning and it is now established as my favourite recording!


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## CnC Bartok

I eventually got hold of that COE cycle, despite not fancying it on the basis of very indifferent reviews (Gramophone, Penguin Guide) and questioning whether I really needed 3 1/2 cycles under the same conductor.

I am glad I got it even if only as a download. These are fresh and exciting readings, which highlight some of the inner voices in Sibelius' . I agree with Jim that No.3 is a highlight, as is No.7 for me, and No.1. But I did find 2 and 4....well!, Let's just say Berglund has recorded them better! Not a favourite cycle, but a damned good one, full of surprises!

Josquin - I have to urge you to get hold of the Collins set. C'mon, you need yet another cycle!! It's superb, from that glorious opening clarinet of No. 1 to the close of No.7. 

Jim, if you want a "different" No.3, Collins takes it fast, questionably so in the middle movement, 7 1/2 minutes, making it sound like a march rather than a peaceful stroll, but for me it really works. That's my favourite Third! I also regularly manage to forget the whole lot are in mono, the sound's that good.

Heck, I agree with your comment about the thinness of the strings in the Lahti Karelia. It's common to all the incidental musics I have from them, but I don't hear it in the Symphonies or the tone poems. Is it the theatre scoring? True, as Josquin says, the strings are thinner than say Maazel, or Karajan, or every Davis cycle, so it could well be a deliberate Finnish thing. Coldness, bleakness, icyness, Northern Chill??? The recording dynamic with the BIS /Lahti recordings is a drawback for me too, but I don't have multi-thousand-pound hifi, just decent stuff! Incidentally, the Segerstam collection released recently on Naxos (six CDs of mainly incidental music) are with the Turku PO, and although there's no Karelia among those, there are moments there where I'd stretch to "ratty" even if generally these are a bit more exciting and satisfying than Vanska/Lahti. I still say Sibelius discarded some music wisely when putting together the suites...!


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## sibelius

I'm reminded of Toscanini's comments on the Sibelius 7th: "I see no music in it. You have to show me where is music." It took me a long time to accept the symphony. I do find the ending dramatic now. Still cannot cotton to #4, which is critically considered "great" by some. Love the 3rd, which seems to be the poor relative among them. I find the 1st exceptional among first symphonies, right up there with Schumann and Brahms. I also find #5 over-rated and #6 under-rated. I also agree some of his most beautiful music comes from the suites. 
A big time Sibelius fan


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## Pat Fairlea

sibelius said:


> I'm reminded of Toscanini's comments on the Sibelius 7th: "I see no music in it. You have to show me where is music." It took me a long time to accept the symphony. I do find the ending dramatic now. Still cannot cotton to #4, which is critically considered "great" by some. Love the 3rd, which seems to be the poor relative among them. I find the 1st exceptional among first symphonies, right up there with Schumann and Brahms. I also find #5 over-rated and #6 under-rated. I also agree some of his most beautiful music comes from the suites.
> A big time Sibelius fan


I fully agree that nos. 3 & 6 are under-rated, perhaps because they are rather under-stated pieces that never shout and wave their arms. And I hope no. 4 gets to you eventually: it's a remarkable symphony but not easy to love.


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## Heck148

Sibelius #3 is excellent, very fine work.. #6 does nothing for me, I don't get it, it seems to go nowhere...the one weak one in the lot...my own taste, of course.


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## Josquin13

Heck148 writes, "Is the LahtiSO a small orchestra?? I mean, quasi-chamber orchestra size?? I ask because on re-listening to the complete Karelia music, the sound seems rather small...perhaps it's the recording setup - but the brass and winds seem subdued, almost recessed. the crescendi, the fortissimos simply don't deliver the sonic wallop, the volume, to be heard on other versions...I'm wondering f the orchestra uses a smaller string section [??]...."

Yes, the Lahti orchestral sound is a bit more recessed and subdued, and evenly balanced than the other recordings you speak of. Although, in regards to Vänskä's cycle, it's partly due to the BIS recording too, which has a wide dynamic range. I find that I have to continually turn the volume up and down while listening to Vänskä's symphony recordings (and have given up, at least until I get a new stereo system), but not so much for his tone poems, "The Wood Nymph", "The Tempest", etc. (where Vänskä most excels, in my opinion). I complained about this in my earlier post.

As for the orchestral sound, if you had heard Jorma Panula conduct Sibelius, I think you'd understand. Most of the current generation of Finnish conductors today--Saraste, Salonen, Vänskä, Oramo, Franck, etc.--studied with Panula at the Sibelius Academy. & to some extent their approach to Sibelius mirrors Panula's own: which tends to favor a thinner, harder orchestral sound and approach--one that is stripped to the bone of nostalgia, sentiment, big romantic gestures, and mannerisms. The result being that their Sibelius is cooler and more subdued, translucent, detailed, & evenly balanced--completely at the opposite end of the spectrum from the kinds of highly expressive conductors you like in Sibelius (Bernstein, Barbirolli, etc.). Indeed the Finnish performances can come off as sombre and introverted (which is one of the reasons why Okko Kamu's recent Lahti 4th is so remarkable, in my view), and for those not used to this Finnish sound, the performances can seem a bit "underpowered", at times. (Which is why it surprises me that you like Salonen's conducting, as he was one of Panula's prize pupils.) So that is one pillar of influence.

(In addition, I should point out that Leif Segerstam graduated from the Sibelius Academy in 1963, which is too early to have studied with Panula--I would assume--and besides, Segerstam also studied conducting with Jean Morel at Juilliard: so I don't consider him solely an exponent of the Finnish school.)

The other pillar of influence on most Finnish conductors & orchestras today has been Paavo Berglund. As Jukka-Pekka Saraste said, "living Sibelius began with Berglund". Like Panula, Berglund similarly favored a harder, more translucent sound in Sibelius--for its leaness and "vitality" (and clarity of detail). Berglund disliked what he called "mushy" Sibelius performances, where the conductor didn't conduct the whole score and important details got wiped out by too dominant a string section, or an overly loud, boisterous brass section, etc..

Berglund insisted that the balances within his orchestra be more democratic, which allowed for all the various musical lines & details in the Sibelius' scores to be better heard (which helps in building to the climaxes). He even went so far as to record his third Sibelius cycle with a chamber orchestra--although he expanded the orchestra to a full size for several of the symphonies, but not, for instance, for the 3rd Symphony, which is in keeping with Sibelius' wishes for the 3rd, according to his son-in-law, the conductor Jussi Jalas. Berglund also insisted that his brass play very softly and translucently, and that the strings use minimal vibrato.

Today's Finnish conductors & orchestras tend to follow Berglund's lead (and Panula's teaching), and their brass can indeed sound more subdued, etc.. I should add that the early Finnish conductors, like Berglund, trained and taught the major Finnish orchestras how to play Sibelius.

The Finnish tradition is therefore the anti-thesis to those conductors that focus more on the large sweeping themes and big romantic gestures in Sibelius, those that take a more Tchaikovsky-like view of Sibelius, if you will (as well as those that take a more "impressionist" view, such as Sir Colin Davis--see link to article below).

While the Finnish tradition may be an acquired taste, nevertheless, Sibelius' scores are more complex and richly detailed than is often realized or fully appreciated, and the Finnish conductors do allow for all those details to be revealed. Segerstam might be the exception to the rule: except that Segerstam has a tendency to slow down in Sibelius (sometimes too much so, for my tastes), which, in turn, likewise allows the listener to hear a greater amount of orchestral detail.

Sibelius himself said that he wanted the details in his scores to "swim in the sauce". In other words, he wanted all those details to mix within the larger orchestral balance and yet remain audible. I suspect that's why Berglund criticized Karajan's early Sibelius for being "too soft", claiming that Karajan only learned to conduct "the whole score" later in his career (on his EMI Sibelius recordings?). I agree--to my ears, the thick, velvety smooth sound of the Berlin strings does obscure important orchestral details in Sibelius (& not only in Sibelius). As Berglund said,

"I think this way is better. It is nice to hear details. I think we have already had our fill of mushy recordings."

The third pillar of influence on the Finnish school of conducting has been Okko Kamu, whose earliest DG recordings from the 1970s reveal yet another Finnish conductor that favors a greater transparency and detail in Sibelius to a more romantic, opulent orchestral sound.

Personally, I like it when a Sibelius conductor can achieve something of both aspects--that is, maintain a full grasp of the large, dramatic thrust and climaxes, and yet also be fully attentive to all the myriad details in the scores. That's the only way the big climaxes in Sibelius' symphonies really work, for me--at least, as I think Sibelius intended them--when the whole score is conducted.

But such recordings are rare in my experience. Most conductors opt for too much of one way or the other, and either the phrasing becomes less detailed and blurry and the orchestral balances pulled out of whack, or the performances and sound gets overly stripped down, and becomes so bare boned that the performances lack projection, character, and zest (and a strong interpretation).

(If anyone's curious, here are the only sound clips that I could find of Panula conducting Sibelius (the 4th), though they're probably too brief to support the point I was trying to make:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/jean-sibelius-symphony-no-4-symphony-no-5-mw0001389575

I assume people already know Berglund's Sibelius, but if not, I provided a YT link to his whole Bournemouth cycle in my post above.

Here too is Okko Kamu's 1976 recording of the Lemminkäinen Suite, and a clip of him more recently recording Sibelius' 6th with the Lahti S.O.:










Plus, here is Jukka-Pekka Saraste conducting the Lahti Symphony orchestra in the Sibelius 5th:






Finally, once again, for anyone that's interested in Sibelius conductors & Finnish conducting, the following article from the Finnish Quarterly is very informative (and interestingly, casts Sir Colin Davis as the "anti-thesis" to the Finnish school):

https://fmq.fi/articles/sibelius-the-view-from-the-podium)

P.S. I'll add a clip to Sir Alexander Gibson's Uppsala chamber performances of Symphonies 1 & 2, which I've recently heard for the first time, and on first impression, I tend to prefer to his more subdued Chandos recordings. The remarkable clarity of detail that Gibson & his musicians achieve is like have the score in front of you (I only wish they'd done the 3rd too):


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## Heck148

Josquin, thank you for your extensive overview of Finnish conducting tradition and approach to Sibelius' music...
I would not call Salonen's approach subdued, or hard, or thin sounding...I have some of his Sibelius discs with LAPO, and they are very excellent. maybe not as "romantic" or outwardly expressive as Bernstein, but still very powerful..Salonen, in fact, can start things quite calm and quiet, but after a time, you suddenly realize that he has worked up quite a storm, and his orchestra is really blowing the place apart. LAPO plays superbly for him - I remember a broadcast performance of Salonen/LAPO of Sibelius Sym #5 - very fine, really nailed it, almost on a level with Bernstein/NYPO's magnificent effort - same style - great clarity, and tremendous power - the closing pages were splendidly done.
His 4 /Legends, Kullervo, En Saga are all very excellent...I don't hear in his sound that thin, "rattiness" of the strings which was typical of Finnish orchestras of past years - nor do I hear the subdued, underplayed brass and winds that I've heard from Vanska/Lahti...


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## Josquin13

Heck148--I'll have to listen to more of Salonen's LAPO Sibelius recordings. I mostly know his earlier Sibelius with the Philharmonia, such as the CBS 5th, and while I wouldn't call it overly "thin", I had mixed feelings about the performance. Though I'd bet it served as a stepping stone to his later LAPO 5th, since he was so young at the time. What I'd really like to see is for Salonen to record a full Sibelius cycle today--now that would be exciting.

(Here's a clip to his early Philharmonia 5th:





)

I wouldn't judge all Finnish orchestras on the Lahti S.O. under Vänskä. Have you heard any of Leif Segerstam's Helsinki Philharmonic recordings? or any of Saraste's RCA recordings? I've liked Segerstam's Sibelius "Tempest Suites 1 & 2", for example (though I tend to prefer his Danish recordings, especially of the 7 symphonies):






I've also heard some good Sibelius from the Turku Philharmonic Orchestra (on Naxos)--though admittedly, it wasn't in his best music. However, these orchestras may be too subdued for you, as well. The problem is no one else records all the lesser known music by Sibelius, except for the Finnish orchestras & conductors.

Heck148 writes, "maybe not as "romantic" or outwardly expressive as Bernstein, but still very powerful..Salonen, in fact, can start things quite calm and quiet, but after a time, you suddenly realize that he has worked up quite a storm, and his orchestra is really blowing the place apart."

Yes, Finnish conductors can be like that, especially Berglund at his best. Come to think of it, maybe they work better with British & American orchestras...

Thanks for your post, Heck.

Robert writes, "Josquin - I have to urge you to get hold of the Collins set. C'mon, you need yet another cycle!! It's superb, from that glorious opening clarinet of No. 1 to the close of No.7."

Robert--I actually bought the Collins Sibelius cycle a while back! (as it's in the "Great Sibelius Performances" Decca box set). I just haven't got around to it yet, as I've been on a Holmboe kick lately (especially the new box set out of his Concertos & Chamber Symphonies). I will listen to Collins, soon. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Heck148

Josquin13 said:


> Heck148--I'll have to listen to more of Salonen's LAPO Sibelius recordings. ..... What I'd really like to see is for Salonen to record a full Sibelius cycle today--now that would be exciting.


Yes, that would be welcome, indeed. Salonen is one of the best around, IMO - going to hear him conduct Mahler 9 in Chicago next week!! can't wait!!



> Have you heard any of Leif Segerstam's Helsinki Philharmonic recordings?


No, I have some Kamu/Helsinki



> Yes, Finnish conductors can be like that, especially Berglund at his best. Come to think of it, maybe they work better with British & American orchestras...


I have Berglund/Bourenmouth Kullervo - got it when it first came out - first recording of it, IIRC...it is quite good...I give Salonen/LAPO a slight edge over it, mostly because it's played better...but Bouremouth does acquit itself well, tho..


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## jim prideaux

.......just received the Berglund LPO recording of the 5th and 6th in the post this morning!


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## chill782002

Just for fun, I've put together a cycle made up of my current favourite performance of each symphony. This has unavoidably resulted in a mixture of mono and stereo recordings but I'm quite pleased with it. What performances would you go for if you did the same?

Symphony 1 - Sir John Barbirolli / Halle Orchestra (1966)

Symphony 2 - Basil Cameron / London Philharmonic Orchestra (1947)

Symphony 3 - Kurt Sanderling / Berliner Sinfonie Orchester (1970)

Symphony 4 - Herbert von Karajan / Philharmonia Orchestra (1953)

Symphony 5 - Jascha Horenstein / BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra (1970)

Symphony 6 - Gennady Rozhdestvensky / Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra (1969)

Symphony 7 - Yevgeny Mravinsky / Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra (1965)


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