# Need Bach help



## Jumble Jowls (Jul 1, 2007)

Hello. I've been listening to the classical radio station for about 15 years, but know almost nothing about classical music. That is, I know what I like to hear, but don't know what you call it or where to find it. I'd like to buy a CD or two but don't know what to look for.

The type of music I'm talking about is usually called "Bach." It's a very uplifting, lively, "strings" type of music often involving the harpsicord. I used to hear it a lot in coffee shops years ago, before they started playing rap. Sometimes the flute is mixed in, and sometimes it sounds like dueling harpsicords or strings.

Recently I called the radio station after they played this type of music, and the guy said what I heard was "J.C. Bach Brandenberg Concerto #5 BWV English Concert." I looked it up on ITunes and was able to find one song from that album that fits. 

Any help finding, or better identifying this type of music would be greatly appreciated. Right now I don't know what to look for because I don't know what to call it.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not sure what you want. And what you mean by "identifying this type of music".

You probably know it is part of a 6 concertos set called Brandenburg concertos.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Hi Jumble Jowls. Welcome to TC! 

The type of music you're referring to is known as Baroque music, since it is from the Baroque Era of Europe. Usually, when someone says 'Bach' with reference to classical music, they mean Johann Sebastian Bach (J.S.Bach), one of the great composers of that era, or any era for that matter. Bach had many sons who were also composers, one of whom was Johann Christian Bach(J.C.Bach). He was more of a "transition composer." But in the case of the the Brandenburg Concerto, it was written by his father, J.S. There are other Bach's as well, with more confusing initials. 

Some famous Baroque composers: J.S.Bach, Handel, Vivaldi 

I hope that you have enough terms to Google. Maybe other members can provide further information. 

Incidentally, I'm listening to 'Water Music'(F major suite), which is a famous set of Baroque suites. It was written by the guy in Handel's avatar, and his name was George Frederich Handel.  It has an interesting story behind it.


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

Welcome to the forum, Jumble!

If you like this style of Bach's orchestral music, there are many other examples by J.S. Bach you may want to investigate, beyond the 6 Brandenburg concertos.

All Bach's works are listed in a catalog, given "BWV" numbers, so I'll use those numbers to easily identify these pieces. (These numbers can also be a good way to search for CD's online.)

If you like "dueling harpsichords", there are some concertos written for two harpsichords: BWV 1060, 1061, 1061a, 1062. One of those is an arrangement of the Concerto for Two Violins, which is the more well-known version, goes by BWV 1043. There's also a concerto for harpsichord, violin, and flute BWV 1044, and two other violin concertos BWV 1041 and 1042. There are even concertos for 3 harpsichords (BWV 1063 and 1064), and one concerto for 4 harpsichords (BWV 1065).

Other cool concertos to check out are BWV 1052-1058. You'll probably find these played on harpsichord or piano, but there are also arrangements for violin and oboe. These are really fun pieces.

Lastly, for more examples of lively Bach orchestral music, you might want to check out the 4 orchestral suites, BWV 1066, 1067, 1068, and 1069. These pieces have a lot of music written in the style of various 18th century dances and are quite enjoyable to listen to.

For reference, the Brandenburg concertos are listed as BWV 1046-1051. Most of Bach's major orchestral music is listed in one section of the catalog, pretty much BWV 1041-1069, so you may want to start by looking for these pieces.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

Jumble Jowls said:


> Hello. I've been listening to the classical radio station for about 15 years, but know almost nothing about classical music. That is, I know what I like to hear, but don't know what you call it or where to find it. I'd like to buy a CD or two but don't know what to look for.
> 
> The type of music I'm talking about is usually called "Bach." It's a very uplifting, lively, "strings" type of music often involving the harpsicord. I used to hear it a lot in coffee shops years ago, before they started playing rap. Sometimes the flute is mixed in, and sometimes it sounds like dueling harpsicords or strings.
> 
> ...


The name of the composer is J S Bach (1685-1750) - (not J C Bach).

J S Bach wrote a set of 6 _Brandenburg Concertos_

One of the best recordings is by _Il Giardino Armonico _

If you don't want to buy the whole set, go for Nos 2, 5, 3 as these are the best

Hopefully, this should sort you out.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

The CD played by the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin is great too. 

And not expensive.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

opus67 said:


> Some famous Baroque composers: J.S.Bach, *Handel*, Vivaldi




(10 char.)

And Opus, you are forgotting Telemann which is one of the big one during baroque era.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Handel said:


> (10 char.)
> 
> And Opus, you are forgotting Telemann which is one of the big one during baroque era.


Not really my favourite.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes, but this is not the question. You named famous composers. 

Anyway, I consider Telemann as the member of the baroque "Big 3", before Vivaldi.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Handel said:


> Yes, but this is not the question. You named famous composers.


But I named _some_ famous composers.


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

Navneeth, I just wanted to let you know that I, for one, wholeheartedly support your decision to leave Telemann off of your initial list


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

Leporello87 said:


> Navneeth, I just wanted to let you know that I, for one, wholeheartedly support your decision to leave Telemann off of your initial list


Surely, Telemann is quite highly rated. When I was really into Baroque, he was one of my favourites.

I find Corelli a bit of a bore. I try the Concerti Grossi once a year (around Xmas time) and seldom get through them all. I was never all that keen on the Scarlattis (just a lot of endless random twanging on keyboard).

Vivaldi must rank No 3 after Bach (1) and Handel (2). Vivaldi had superb colouration and texture skillls.

Handel is extremely good but I find much of his work rather light compared with the more profound style of Bach. No wonder he forms part of the Holy Trinity of Mozart, Beethoven and Bach. Because of the very great competition from later Romantics, I'd place Handel at about rank 9/10 in the grand scheme of things (across all periods).

I hope I haven't offended anyone. It's best to apologise in advance just in case.


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## otterhouse (Sep 6, 2007)

Concerto nr 5 has the jimi Hendrix meets Eddie van Halen kind-of-Cadenza...
Concerto nr.2 inspired Paul McCarthy to use a high trumpet on "Penny lane"

I made 2 video's of an early 45 rpm I have of concerto nr 2:

1st movement:




2nd and 3rd movement:





hope you like it....
Rolf


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

You can download the *Brandenburg concertos* from this site http://www.rozhlas.cz/d-dur/download_eng/


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I was never all that keen on the Scarlattis (just a lot of endless random twanging on keyboard).


Acckkk!! Bite your tongue! You obviously have not listened to Kirkpatrick's recordings... or Horowitz or Schiff on piano. And what of Monteverdi? I know some list him as a "Renaissance" composer... but certainly the 1600s is well after the Renaissance.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Back to JumbleJowls... As others have noted the type of music that you refer to is known as "Baroque" denoting a historical period during which the major composers would include Johann Sebastian Bach, George Friederich Handel, Antonio Vivaldi, Domenico Scarlatti, Claudio Monteverdi, Georg Philipp Telemann, Arcangelo Corelli, Heinrich Ignaz Biber, Dieterich Buxtehude, François Couperin, Jean-Baptiste Lully, Giovanni Battista Pergolesi, Henry Purcell, Jean-Philippe Rameau, Heinrich Schütz, Giuseppe Tartini, and many more.

As you are just exploring this area you would probably do well to focus upon J.S. Bach, G. F. Handel, and Antonio Vivaldi. The music that you describe are called _concert grossi_ and usually involve multiple instruments "dueling"... or rather engaging in a give and take dialog. Some of the best examples that you might wish to explore would include:

*J.S. Bach-*

_The Brandenburg Concertos_- There are endless great recordings of these including those by Giardino armonico, the English Chamber Orchestra, and Neville Marriner, the Concerto Italiano, Sir Neville Marriner,and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, I Musici, the Boston Baroque, etc...

_Violin Concertos- _ I have several favorites but a reasonably priced introduction might be the version by Andrew Manze and The Academy of Ancient Music

Keyboard Concertos- These may be recorded on harpsichord or piano. The purist insist on the harpsichord. It all depends upon your personal taste. My favorite recording is that by Murray Perahia and Academy of St. Martin in the Fields which is performed on piano... but if you want harpsichord you might check out Raymond Leppard and the English Chamber Orchestra's version.

*G.F. Handel-*

_The Messiah_- OK... this is an oratorio... a long work involving a chorus and individual singers... but it just may be the single best introduction to Baroque choral music. Once you have digested this there are endless other works of Baroque choral music including others by Handel to say nothing of the entire universe of Bach's cantatas and oratorios.

_The Water Music_

_The Royal Fireworks Music_

There are endless recordings of these Baroque suites. I would suggest that the version by Neville Marriner and Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields is as good a starting point as any.

*Antonio Vivaldi-*

_The Four Seasons_- The Four Seasons is just about the single most played piece of classical music... rivaled only by Beethoven's 5th Symphony and a few others. There are endless recordings of the work. I would simply seek out a solid baroque orchestra recording (English Chamber Orchestra, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, New Bach Collegium Musicum Leipzig, Il Giardino Armonico, etc...

Vivaldi has numerous other _concerti grossi_ compositions. Especially good collections include that by Christopher Hogwood and The Academy of Ancient Music on L'Oiseau Lyre lable and the recording entitled _La Stravaganza _ on Decca record recorded by Sir Neville Marriner and Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields.

After these you can always branch out. Good Luck!


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