# Karajan: Complete Recordings on Deutsche Grammophon and Decca



## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)

Decided to start a dedicated thread to "Herbert von Karajan: Complete Recordings on Deutsche Grammophon and Decca" to make it easier to find whilst debating it's merits (or demerits depending upon your take of the release).

It has a pre-release price of 923.00 US - 793.29 EUR at Presto Classical...

Contents

REPERTOIRE
• The Early Recordings on 8 CDs (6 CDs of “The First Recordings” from the 1930s and 1940s + 2 CDs radio recordings previously released on Koch-Schwann from the 1940s)
• The Complete 1960s recordings (82CDs)
• The Complete 1970s recordings (82 CDs)
• The Complete 1980s recordings (78 CDs)
• The Complete Opera Recordings on DG & Decca (70 CDs)
• Decca Orchestral Recordings on 9 CDs + The Christmas Album
• The complete DG/Unitel DVDs (24 DVDs)
• 2 Blu-ray Audios with the 1963 Beethoven cycle and Wagner’s Ring des Nibelungen in 24 bit/96kHz.
• Strictly Limited, Numbered Edition
• Leather fibre outer case with gold hot-foil imprint
• Bookshelf-like inner box presenting all sleeves easily accessible from two sides
• The Hardcover-Book with 140 pages: Includes a new extended essay on the phenomenon Karajan by biographer Richard Osborne as well as all the essays, interviews, reminiscences by colleagues and producers from the four previously released big box sets, a timeline and numerous pictures including facsimiles of protocols from some of his most famous recordings
• Four tracklisting booklets:
1 The Early Recordings + 1960s Recordings
2 The 1970s Recordings
3 The 1980s Recordings + Decca Orchestral Recordings
4 The Opera Recordings + DVDs and Blu-ray Audios
• Original Jackets (front and back) with most recordings in their original LP couplings

Not quite certain who this set is being marketed to...


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Only 2500 total boxed sets were manufactured. This boxed set is for only the select few who'd be prepared to pay for all this.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Oh, they'll make more if the demand is there - but it won't be. Most of us who wanted anything from HvK have already bought the cds in the last 30 years and won't be likely to duplicate. He's still the subject of a lot of debate. Some people think he was one of the greatest of all time, others think he was a fraud - no better than Mantovani. He was a Nazi, no doubt. But if you can get past his politics, his horrific ego and the personality, then there's some great, great music making in this box. Top-notch Beethoven (the earlier 60s), Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, R Strauss, Berg, Schoenberg, Webern, Rimsky-Korsakov....the man's repertoire was stunning. DG's sound is always excellent at the least and the playing of the BPO is stunning. Now, if this had come out 30 years ago I would have gone for it. But not now, too much duplication and where would you store this beast? And what do you do when disk 231 is faulty?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

...and it leaves a big, gaping hole where (in my opinion) some of his best work was done ... the 1950's which, of course, was not DGG/Decca - what I would call the pre-KARAJAN Karajan


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Oh, they'll make more if the demand is there - but it won't be. Most of us who wanted anything from HvK have already bought the cds in the last 30 years and won't be likely to duplicate. He's still the subject of a lot of debate. Some people think he was one of the greatest of all time, others think he was a fraud - no better than Mantovani. He was a Nazi, no doubt. But if you can get past his politics, his horrific ego and the personality, then there's some great, great music making in this box. Top-notch Beethoven (the earlier 60s), Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, R Strauss, Berg, Schoenberg, Webern, Rimsky-Korsakov....the man's repertoire was stunning. DG's sound is always excellent at the least and the playing of the BPO is stunning. Now, if this had come out 30 years ago I would have gone for it. But not now, too much duplication and where would you store this beast? And what do you do when disk 231 is faulty?


Your answer was exactly what I was expecting when I asked the question about who this set was being marketed to - you're either someone who already has the vast majority of these recordings already and have no intention of duplicating literally hundreds of CDs or you're someone who would shudder at the very idea of having anywhere near this much Karajan and so I remain puzzled as to who will pony up the dough to have something like this... I will concede that visually it looks stunning

- https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/c...e-recordings-on-deutsche-grammophon-and-decca

but I can't imagine ever being willing to wade through 330 CDs + 24 DVD Videos + 2 Blu-ray Audios without losing consciousness at some point...


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)

senza sordino said:


> Only 2500 total boxed sets were manufactured.  This boxed set is for only the select few who'd be prepared to pay for all this.


And perhaps also those hoping to snare one of the even rarer autographed copies...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Do very many people really want these monster collections? My idea of hell is to have to listen to the complete recordings of Herbert von Karajan. He seems to me to have made too many unnecessary records, with too much duplication of repertoire, and he didn't improve with age (and with increasing control over the extraconductorial aspects of recording), tending more and more to an underarticulated suavity of sound justly referred to as "Karajanization." 

For my taste the essential Karajan efforts, especially in opera, are from the 1950s and early 1960s, including some exciting live performances. I find the late opera recordings unattractive in their underpowered casting, eccentric interpretive choices, and exaggerated dynamic effects, all of which shout self-aggrandizement.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The complete baryton trios of Joseph Haydn. Free if you can listen to them all in one sitting!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

If I had nothing else on my wish list and €800.00 just in my spare pocket, I would buy it.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

A number of years back ImportCDs had a price hiccup on EMI mega-boxes (or maybe they just wanted to dump them). I picked up the complete HvK on EMI - two boxes, orchestral and vocal, totaling 160 discs - for about $30. I still haven’t listened to all of them. 

The vocal box, in particular is a treasure. I’m set as I am.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

jegreenwood said:


> A number of years back ImportCDs had a price hiccup on EMI mega-boxes (or maybe they just wanted to dump them). I picked up the complete HvK on EMI - two boxes, orchestral and vocal, totaling 160 discs - for about $30. I still haven't listened to all of them.
> 
> The vocal box, in particular is a treasure. I'm set as I am.


I think this is a real point that if you can get these boxes at a cheaper price then they become a real bargain. I bought Karajan's Symphony edition a few years ago and ithas given lots of pleasure. One problem with buying these huge boxes though is when you're going to find time to listen to them.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

mbhaub said:


> Oh, they'll make more if the demand is there - but it won't be. Most of us who wanted anything from HvK have already bought the cds in the last 30 years and won't be likely to duplicate. He's still the subject of a lot of debate. Some people think he was one of the greatest of all time, others think he was a fraud - no better than Mantovani. *He was a Nazi, no doubt. But if you can get past his politics, his horrific ego and the personality, t*hen there's some great, great music making in this box. Top-notch Beethoven (the earlier 60s), Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, R Strauss, Berg, Schoenberg, Webern, Rimsky-Korsakov....the man's repertoire was stunning. DG's sound is always excellent at the least and the playing of the BPO is stunning. Now, if this had come out 30 years ago I would have gone for it. But not now, too much duplication and where would you store this beast? And what do you do when disk 231 is faulty?


It's interesting how often these things come up wrt Karajan but not other conductors.
Yes Karajan was a member of the Nazi party, which is indefensible. Whether he was an ideologically committed Nazi like Karl Bohm, who in 1938 told the Vienna Philharmonc that anyone who did not vote for Hitler's Anschluss could not be considered a proper German, we do not know as HvK never said anything.
Yes Karajan had a great ego - but so have most conductors, especially in that era.
His personality did not please, but neither did conductors like Szell or Reiner.
Yes HvK was not too nice a man in some ways. Just pointing out many of the conductors we listen to avidly aren't either.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

You don't have to be nice to be great. In fact in many cases it would seem that the more monstrous the ego, the greater the talent. I would cite a non musical example, the chess genius Robert Fischer. Undoubtedly one of the greatest chess players, if not the absolute greatest, who ever lived, but I wouldn't want to spend an evening in his company. I think a lot of it is to do with their lack of involvement with ordinary people who live in the real world. Most politicians suffer from a similar disability, a lack of empathy with those who don't inhabit their narrow little worlds.:lol:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Barbebleu said:


> You *don't have to be nice to be great. *In fact in many cases it would seem that the more monstrous the ego, the greater the talent. I would cite a non musical example, the chess genius Robert Fischer. Undoubtedly one of the greatest chess players, if not the absolute greatest, who ever lived, but I wouldn't want to spend an evening in his company. I think a lot of it is to do with their lack of involvement with ordinary people who live in the real world. Most politicians suffer from a similar disability, a lack of empathy with those who don't inhabit their narrow little worlds.:lol:


Yes examples proliferate. Just read a biography of Verdi. Not a nice man in many ways. And outside music Steve Jobs? Not someone Iwould like to have known

It was said of Montgomery of Alamein: "He was not a nice man, but nice men don't win battles!"


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DavidA said:


> It's interesting how often these things come up wrt Karajan but not other conductors.
> Yes Karajan was a member of the Nazi party, which is indefensible. Whether he was an ideologically committed Nazi like Karl Bohm, who in 1938 told the Vienna Philharmonc that anyone who did not vote for Hitler's Anschluss could not be considered a proper German, we do not know as HvK never said anything.
> Yes Karajan had a great ego - but so have most conductors, especially in that era.
> His personality did not please, but neither did conductors like Szell or Reiner.
> Yes HvK was not too nice a man in some ways. Just pointing out many of the conductors we listen to avidly aren't either.


I take greater with the assessment of DG's sound as "excellent at the least."


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

DavidA said:


> It's interesting how often these things come up wrt Karajan but not other conductors.
> Yes Karajan was a member of the Nazi party, which is indefensible. Whether he was an ideologically committed Nazi like Karl Bohm, who in 1938 told the Vienna Philharmonc that anyone who did not vote for Hitler's Anschluss could not be considered a proper German, we do not know as HvK never said anything.
> Yes Karajan had a great ego - but so have most conductors, especially in that era.
> His personality did not please, but neither did conductors like Szell or Reiner.
> Yes HvK was not too nice a man in some ways. Just pointing out many of the conductors we listen to avidly aren't either.


At the risk of hijacking the thread-I'm Jewish, have Holocaust survivors in my family, have done a lot of reading about the Third Reich, have strong feelings about the period, etc-but I wouldn't rank his joining the Party-twice-as indefensible. Millions of Germans did so because they knew it enhanced their job prospects. He wasn't a committed Nazi-the only cause in life that interested him was his career


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

At any rate, the presence of the collection raises the question, already posed here by other posters, as to who buys these mega box collections. I have bought some of them, because I otherwise didn’t have much of the featured artist. For some reason I avoided Brendel’s Phillips recordings, probably because I had the Vox Beethoven series, but I recently sprang for the big Brendel box and have really enjoyed exploring it. With HvK there would be a lot of duplication and the asking price is ridiculous


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)

Triplets said:


> At the risk of hijacking the thread-I'm Jewish, have Holocaust survivors in my family, have done a lot of reading about the Third Reich, have strong feelings about the period, etc-but I wouldn't rank his joining the Party-twice-as indefensible. Millions of Germans did so because they knew it enhanced their job prospects. He wasn't a committed Nazi-the only cause in life that interested him was his career


I attempted to start a thread on the Opera forum entitled "DG release: "Karl Böhm: The Operas" - ethical question..." in which I expressed the thought that they very idea of this set made me queasy because of who and what Karl Böhm was but it was redirected by the moderator into the "Politics and Religion in Classical Music" sub-forum of the Religious Music forum where it currently languishes in obscurity...


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Do very many people really want these monster collections? My idea of hell is to have to listen to the complete recordings of Herbert von Karajan. He seems to me to have made too many unnecessary records, with too much duplication of repertoire, and he didn't improve with age (and with increasing control over the extraconductorial aspects of recording), tending more and more to an underarticulated suavity of sound justly referred to as "Karajanization."
> 
> For my taste the essential Karajan efforts, especially in opera, are from the 1950s and early 1960s, including some exciting live performances. I find the late opera recordings unattractive in their underpowered casting, eccentric interpretive choices, and exaggerated dynamic effects, all of which shout self-aggrandizement.


Every once in a while I run across a posting that makes me stop and say "I wish I had written that..." - This is one of those posts... Devastating and difficult to argue otherwise (at least by me - I'm sure that others are sharpening their swords as I write this but that's Woodduck's headache not mine)... I offer my sincere and heartfelt compliments but you should know that they are tainted - virtually poisoned - with the coppery bitterness of barely concealed envy...

(Private note to self sent as PM: Give some thought to doing a copy and paste of this posting and others that you covet and create a new thread somewhere else in an obscure corner of the boards where you can take full credit for the better written, more insightful, clever and amusing messages that others post - if caught, just shrug and direct their attention to your avatar and username..; end of private note to self sent as PM).


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Oh, they'll make more if the demand is there - but it won't be. Most of us who wanted anything from HvK have already bought the cds in the last 30 years and won't be likely to duplicate.


This release might make sense if DG hadn't quite recently issued these same recordings in smaller but still substantial boxes of HvK's recordings by decade. Anyone who bought those would be certifiably insane to buy this new box.

The one advantage to such a set is that if one has a very, very large collection that isn't well organized, it makes it very easy to find any Karajan recording.

Personally, I have all the DG Karajan I need or want, with the Symphony Edition (still dirt-cheap), his RING, his Strauss recordings, and a few odds and ends. And I did buy the big EMI boxes when I found them selling for less than a buck a CD. If this DG monster is ever that cheap, I suppose that it might be worth pulling the trigger, since I'm one of those people with a large collection that isn't well organized :devil:


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> You don't have to be nice to be great. In fact in many cases it would seem that the more monstrous the ego, the greater the talent.


Couldn't agree more... see Sinatra, Frank...


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I tend to count myself no fan of Karajan's work, though I have found a couple of his recordings to be fine. Most I've heard I have not greatly enjoyed. I experienced early on in my record collecting days that there were certain discs that simply didn't "move" me much, in comparison, say, to other recordings. Somewhere along the line I noticed that the majority of discs I was not appreciating happened to be by this fellow Karajan. Again, this was way back there in the 60s and 70s before I even knew much about the conductor or classical music in general and I tended to buy records just to hear new music. But I reached a point where I generally avoided purchasing Karajan discs, and to this day I have few in my collection.

I _have_ been a fan of big mega-boxsets, and several big ones bearing Karajan's name have crossed my path, but I've avoided purchasing any of them until quite recently when I (somewhat hesitantly, I will admit) added the Warner Classics box "The Official Remastered Edition" to my collection -- it was packaged to mark the 25th anniversary of the death of Herbert von Karajan (and released in 2014), . (Maybe that's why I bought it? To celebrate the death of this conductor? Hmm ... I'll have to ponder that.) "The Official Remastered Edition" comprises 13 box sets regrouping what are purported to be the conductor's "most remarkable orchestral recordings for EMI", in all 101 discs, spanning a period between 1946 and 1984. (No full length operas, though, I believe.) Too, the price was reasonable for a box of 101 remastered discs.

It's a rather beautiful box set. Mine is still lying in a closet encased in the original shipping wrappings. I haven't opened it. But it looks quite stunning, and perhaps one of these days I will crack it open and begin to sample the selections. At least one review I've read said the remastering has certainly improved the sound of the discs. And there must be _something_ in there that will indeed "move" me. It's a large collection of music.

So ... until I get through this box set of Karajan, I won't bother ordering another. Or at least until maybe the 100th year celebration of the conductor's death.









Below is information from the MDT website:

The Karajan Official Remastered Edition features primarily symphonic and choral music. The entire edition comprises recordings remastered from the original sources in 24-bit/96kHz at Abbey Road Studios, the world's most renowned recording studio.

1 The Vienna Philharmonic Recordings, 1946-1949 (10CD)
2 Choral Music: Bach/Beethoven/Brahms 1947-1958 (5CD)
3 Karajan and his soloists 1948-1958 (8CD)
4 Orchestral Spectacular from Handel to Bartók 1949-1960 (13CD)
5 Russian Music: Mussorgsky/Tchaikovsky/Borodin/Balakirev/Stravinsky 1949-1960 (7CD)
6 Beethoven: Symphonies & Overtures 1951-1955 (6CD)
7 German music: Mozart/Schubert/Brahms/J. Strauss/Wagner/R. Strauss 1951-1960 (12CD)
8 Karajan and his soloists II - 1969-1984 (10CD)
9 Berlioz-Franck-Debussy-Ravel-Tchaikovsky-Dvořák-Bartók 1970-1981 (7CD)
10 Haydn-Mozart-Schubert 1970-1981 (8CD)
11 Brahms-Bruckner-Wagner-R Strauss-Schmidt 1970-1981 (6CD)
12 Haydn-Beethoven-Brahms: The Choral Recordings 1972-1976 (5CD)
13 Sibelius 1976-1981 (4CD)
Warner Classics 101cds 0190295955199


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Do very many people really want these monster collections? My idea of hell is to have to listen to the complete recordings of Herbert von Karajan. He seems to me to have made too many unnecessary records, with too much duplication of repertoire, and he didn't improve with age (and with increasing control over the extraconductorial aspects of recording), tending more and more to an underarticulated suavity of sound justly referred to as "Karajanization."


good summation. it always seemed to be "about HvK", not the music, not the composer...


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

I went for the 1960s 1970s 1980s and opera boxes hawked previously by DGG, so there's very little left over worth my while. Not really keen on hearing the 1930s and 1940s stuff, and certainly not at this price. I can do without the faux leather box. So I'm not the target audience.

I'm not as offended by the repeated recordings as some are; there's enough difference between them to keep me interested, and I'm amused by comparing and contrasting the different approaches over time by the same artist.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> You don't have to be nice to be great. In fact in many cases it would seem that the more monstrous the ego, the greater the talent.


not sure the two are related - talent v personal quality, but it is clear that some of the very greatest conductors were pretty nasty, miserable human beings - Rodzinski, Reiner, Szell Toscanini, Stokowski, Mravinsky, etc spring to mind. these were the arch-type "podium tyrants" who ruled with an iron hand, yet produced some of the most remarkable music ever. great talent, but not very nice people.



> Most politicians suffer from a similar disability, a lack of empathy with those who don't inhabit their narrow little worlds.


The truly great "politicians" do not suffer from this disability - I think it was Tip O'Neil who is most closely associated with the idea that "all politics is local". He owned a home in our town, we'd see him around, at restaurants, the bank, wherever - always a friendly greeting, a quick, funny quip, or comeback; an uncanny recall of individual details of a "common" person's life - he noticed people, made them feel special, like they counted...
Sen Teddy Kennedy, same way - he could recall all sorts of personal details of past acquaintances, ask about an ill family member, a child who had gone on to school, an aging parent, etc...the true politicians have a talent for that, to recall faces, names, events, and to make people feel that they are noticed, that they count for something.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

A large proportion of our politicians have very little in common with the people they purport to represent. They are professional politicians who have never, or rarely, held down a real job and therefore don't really know the problems facing ordinary people. Even those who say that they represent the working classes more often than not come from privileged backgrounds and have no qualms about sending their offspring to private schools. I could rant on at length about this but this is a music forum and I shall cease and desist forthwith. :lol:


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2017)

DG released a photo of the shipping container for the Karajan mega (330 CDs plus 24 DVDs plus 2 Blu ray) box (which are being produced at DG's South Korean manufacturing plant hence the "Hyundai" label...)

...Hope I get one of the ultra-rare autographed copies!









I may be mistaken but I'm fairly certain that it is Karajan himself at the far right whacking those kids with a conductor's baton...


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> DG released a photo of the shipping container for the Karajan mega (330 CDs plus 24 DVDs plus 2 Blu ray) box (which are being produced at DG's South Korean manufacturing plant hence the "Hyundai" label...)
> 
> ...Hope I get one of the ultra-rare autographed copies!
> 
> I may be mistaken but I'm fairly certain that it is Karajan himself at the far right whacking those kids with a conductor's baton...


Is that the container for just one set?


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2017)

Triplets said:


> Is that the container for just one set?


Yep... just one set... literally just one set.... as in one single 330 CDS plus 24 DVDs plus 2 Blu ray plus hard cover book(s?) faux genuine leather limited edition deluxe mega box set which may or may not be autographed by Karajan provided you're lucky enough to score one of those rare as leprechauns or unicorns sets... Always happy to help!

And I was able to confirm that it is indeed Karajan in the photo whacking that kid with his baton... Apparently there were issues with the kid being completely unable to play in the proper key - he was always either flat or sharp) , things quickly got kind of heated, the kid started mouthing off, and Karajan (uncharacteristically) blew a fuse (or perhaps a gasket - I'm kind of hazy about that part) and started whaling the tar out of the kid....and all of it (fortunately) was captured on this photograph! Hard to believe, eh?


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I've seen the question who buys these monster box sets several times to which I can only answer, I do.

I have an entire wall of them in my basement and I've listened to them all not once but multiple times. I listen while I'm at work, while I'm in the car and while I'm at home. I use to listen while I slept but my girlfriend prefers a fan...

I have listened to every single recording from HVK in the EMI Complete Orchestral and Opera box sets released back in like 2005 as well as all of the Complete DG and Decca recordings released over the last several years. I enjoy them because I see Karajan as an artist in his own right. Some people don't like the Karajan sound, that's fine. It's not what I always want to hear either. He's not my favorite conductor, and he's not my favorite interpreter of Beethoven or Brahms or Bruckner or many other composers, but I understood what he was trying to achieve and I have immense respect for his accomplishments. 

I will happily enjoy his recordings until I die, even the ones I don't think are very good because I learn something about Karajan, the composer, or the music itself every time I listen. I love to see how Karajan's interpretations changed over time. Do I agree with everything he did? No. Is every recording perfect? Of course not, but so what. There's still so much to enjoy. Sometimes just hearing the soloists and the Berlin orchestra itself pays dividends. Sometimes it's the small details that Karajan would carefully consider that other conductors might only glance at. Others will obviously disagree but I contend there is something to be learned and/or enjoyed from pretty much every recording he made.

I would happily purchase this new set it if I had the money, but also already have the Complete 60's, 70's, 80's, Opera's and Decca recordings so the only bonus to me would be the DVD's really, of which I have most (but not all). I would gladly trade the other box sets though for the single giant one with everything included.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> I tend to count myself no fan of Karajan's work, though I have found a couple of his recordings to be fine. Most I've heard I have not greatly enjoyed. I experienced early on in my record collecting days that there were certain discs that simply didn't "move" me much, in comparison, say, to other recordings. Somewhere along the line I noticed that the majority of discs I was not appreciating happened to be by this fellow Karajan. Again, this was way back there in the 60s and 70s before I even knew much about the conductor or classical music in general and I tended to buy records just to hear new music. But I reached a point where I generally avoided purchasing Karajan discs, and to this day I have few in my collection.
> 
> I _have_ been a fan of big mega-boxsets, and several big ones bearing Karajan's name have crossed my path, but I've avoided purchasing any of them until quite recently when I (somewhat hesitantly, I will admit) added the Warner Classics box "The Official Remastered Edition" to my collection -- it was packaged to mark the 25th anniversary of the death of Herbert von Karajan (and released in 2014), . (Maybe that's why I bought it? To celebrate the death of this conductor? Hmm ... I'll have to ponder that.) "The Official Remastered Edition" comprises 13 box sets regrouping what are purported to be the conductor's "most remarkable orchestral recordings for EMI", in all 101 discs, spanning a period between 1946 and 1984. (No full length operas, though, I believe.) Too, the price was reasonable for a box of 101 remastered discs.
> 
> ...





> 1 The Vienna Philharmonic Recordings, 1946-1949 (10CD)


Rarities box (even a 1947 worthy Strauss Metamorphosen) with some gems (Schwarzkopf opera arias) and many misses. Enjoy historical Karajan in Studio with his first and interesting tenure with the WPO.



> 2 Choral Music: Bach/Beethoven/Brahms 1947-1958 (5CD)


Many of them not as good as the DG or EMI stereo recordings. But you'll find here Schwarzkopf's best Vier Letzte Lieder, live with Karajan and Denis Brain.



> 3 Karajan and his soloists 1948-1958 (8CD)


Not into concertos yet, but a worthy box for interpretation reasons.



> 4 Orchestral Spectacular from Handel to Bartók 1949-1960 (13CD)


A very big box of mono and stereo recordings with the Philharmonia at their best level. Don't miss the Sibelius recordings. The rest are enjoyable.



> 5 Russian Music: Mussorgsky/Tchaikovsky/Borodin/Balakirev/Stravinsky 1949-1960 (7CD)


Totally reccomended for Balakirev and Tchaikovsky.



> 6 Beethoven: Symphonies & Overtures 1951-1955 (6CD)


Skip the stereo Ninth. The mono Ninth is a treasure as well as the second. The rest are hits and misses but I remind you of the best Philharmonia years.



> 7 German music: Mozart/Schubert/Brahms/J. Strauss/Wagner/R. Strauss 1951-1960 (12CD)


This box gets my most negative reviews. Many of the BPO early recordings are dull and Mozart is a hit and miss. His Wagner in mono is probably too ok compared to what Knappertsbusch could do.



> 8 Karajan and his soloists II - 1969-1984 (10CD)


It has the famous Don Quixote with Rostropovich and the Triple concerto by Beethoven, but this box hasn't got either Amazon rewiewers or my appreciation.



> 9 Berlioz-Franck-Debussy-Ravel-Tchaikovsky-Dvořák-Bartók 1970-1981 (7CD)


Do try the French compositions. It has a staggering La Mer and the rare Orchestre de Paris recordings. His Tchaikovsky doesn't quite compete with his DG 70s releases.



> 10 Haydn-Mozart-Schubert 1970-1981 (8CD)


Mozart is ok. I will use this one for the Schubert symphonies challenge. Excellent sound.



> 11 Brahms-Bruckner-Wagner-R Strauss-Schmidt 1970-1981 (6CD)


One of the best. It has Bruckner 4 and 7 (quite good both of them) and Wagner overtures (some of them quite polished. I love the Parsifal Act I) It has my favourite Sinfonia Domestica by R. Strauss.



> 12 Haydn-Beethoven-Brahms: The Choral Recordings 1972-1976 (5CD)


Get it for the Haydn Seasons and the Beethoven Missa Solemnis (slightly better than his 60s release)



> 13 Sibelius 1976-1981 (4CD)


Get and listen to it as soon as you can. Best box of the set and such a fantastic Sibelius that I think I don't need to do a Challenge.

Warner Classics 101cds 0190295955199


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Yep... just one set... literally just one set.... as in one single 330 CDS plus 24 DVDs plus 2 Blu ray plus hard cover book(s?) faux genuine leather limited edition deluxe mega box set which may or may not be autographed by Karajan provided you're lucky enough to score one of those rare as leprechauns or unicorns sets... Always happy to help!
> 
> *And I was able to confirm that it is indeed Karajan in the photo whacking that kid with his baton..*. Apparently there were issues with the kid being completely unable to play in the proper key - he was always either flat or sharp) , things quickly got kind of heated, the kid started mouthing off, and Karajan (uncharacteristically) blew a fuse (or perhaps a gasket - I'm kind of hazy about that part) and started whaling the tar out of the kid....and all of it (fortunately) was captured on this photograph! Hard to believe, eh?


I'm assuming you're joking. The guy is not Karajan


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Granate said:


> One of the best. *It has Bruckner 4 and 7 (quite good both of them)* and Wagner overtures (some of them quite polished. I love the Parsifal Act I) It has my favourite Sinfonia Domestica by R. Strauss.
> 
> Warner Classics 101cds 0190295955199


The two Bruckner recordings are among the very best


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2017)

Nice work Granate... my compliments on a job well done!


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2017)

DavidA said:


> I'm assuming you're joking. The guy is not Karajan


Nope, not joking, that is in fact Karajan himself, the one and only, ... look closer... really closer... even closer than that...see? It's him - the Maestro himself...

What may be throwing you off is seeing him after he had received a particularly bad hair cut. That along with the kid who was unable to play in the proper key is what set him off like one of Wernher von Braun's rockets...

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you're not actually calling me a liar in front of all these people in a public forum because that would be completely uncalled for... You might want to give some thought to offering me an apology...

Think about it... Why in God's name would I lie about Karajan being in that photo? What possible reason would I have? I mean other than the obvious ones like going for comedic effect and being a pathological liar and what not but that is neither here nor there...

I think that my avatar and username says all that needs to be said as to my credibility and how seriously I take my responsibility to be a trusted source of information...

After having written 9,751 posts (and counting) I expect more from someone of your stature...you should be way past the "assuming" stage by this point...

Anyway, even though you mortally insulted me in front of all these people in a public forum - no hard feelings - I offer you nothing but best wishes! :tiphat:


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> I'm assuming you're joking. The guy is not Karajan


I agree. Karajan was not that tall.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

His ego was LOL.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I think Karajan was a 'suffered' from the tall poppy syndrome in that he combined a rare musical talent, charisma, business sense, ruthless ambition and sheer determination that carried him to the top of the tree. He therefore became the object of envy and spite by the less talented - especially critics who are often failures themselves and hate to see someone else to succeed. Of course, the Nazi Party membership was a convenient stick to beat him with yet it's peculiar how Elizabeth Schwarzkopf got largely away with her Nazi past even though she was probably far more intimately involved with the Nazi machine itself. They even made her a Dame!
If in many ways he was an objectionable man he was no more objectionable than other maestri of his era who ruled with a rod of iron. He was apparently a shy man who used his image as a front. He had little time for the after concert parties and get-togethers apart from when it suited him. He could also be extremely helpful to those he chose to help as well as ruthless to those who got in his way. A very mixed bag as a man, then.
As for his music making I have always found it inspirational as did the players under him. Yes he suffered from recording too often but I wonder if he had recorded as little as Carlos Kleiber whether he would be better rather than worse thought of by some!
As it is he gave us plenty of recordings to choose from - most of which are certainly worth listening to and some of which are among the greatest of all time. No, I'm not a particular fan of Karajan the man (any more than I'm a fan of, say, Steve Jobs) but I don't see Karajan when the music comes out of the loudspeakers. I've just acquired his 1972 Verdi Requiem that suffered a critical mauling but I was amazed by the performance. OK it certainly isn't the only way of doing the work but it is certainly the most beautiful account on records I have. And what's wrong with that?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Yep... just one set... literally just one set.... as in one single 330 CDS plus 24 DVDs plus 2 Blu ray plus hard cover book(s?) faux genuine leather limited edition deluxe mega box set which may or may not be autographed by Karajan provided you're lucky enough to score one of those rare as leprechauns or unicorns sets... Always happy to help!
> 
> And I was able to confirm that it is indeed Karajan in the photo whacking that kid with his baton... Apparently there were issues with the kid being completely unable to play in the proper key - he was always either flat or sharp) , things quickly got kind of heated, the kid started mouthing off, and Karajan (uncharacteristically) blew a fuse (or perhaps a gasket - I'm kind of hazy about that part) and started whaling the tar out of the kid....and all of it (fortunately) was captured on this photograph! Hard to believe, eh?


Some people have no sensayuma. :lol:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Nope, not joking, that is in fact Karajan himself, the one and only, ... look closer... really closer... even closer than that...see? It's him - the Maestro himself...
> 
> What may be throwing you off is seeing him after he had received a particularly bad hair cut. That along with the kid who was unable to play in the proper key is what set him off like one of Wernher von Braun's rockets...
> 
> ...


I do like those with a twisted sense of humour.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> I agree. Karajan was not that tall.


Plus he would have hired someone else to do the actual dirty work...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Triplets said:


> Plus he would have hired someone else to do the actual dirty work...


There were people, apparently, who were hired just so Karajan could blame them and give them hell when he was in a mood! I believe it's in Osborn's biography.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> I do like those with a twisted sense of humour.


Me too! Couldn't agree more!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

wkasimer said:


> I agree. Karajan was not that tall.


Well... you're wrong - wrong, wrong, wrong... I can't state it any more plainly than that... Before arguing with me about this matter (which quite frankly is kind of frosting me to be honest as you're essentially stating in an all-too-public forum that I either a.) don't know what I'm talking about or else b.) I'm completely making this all up - either way it's terrifically offensive and I may require you to offer me the same apology which I requested from DavidA... which, by the way, I'm still waiting for...)

Please click on the photo one more time but this time actually LOOK at it... study it... keep staring at it without blinking until your eyes start to water... and you will eventually see that the man in the photo is Herbert von Karajan himself.

I do know that the photo was shot at DG's South Korean manufacturing plant and that the giant cardboard box contains one single copy of the new Complete DG Karajan box set. I will be completely honest with you when I state for the record that I don't have the vaguest idea as to the identity of the other people in the photo (other than the kid that Karajan was whaling the tar out of for always being either flat or sharp - his name is "Jimmy" but my rep at DG said that I had to hold back the kid's last name because he's a minor).

At some point people really really really need to stop arguing with me... especially during these all-too-few occasions when I actually know what I'm talking about....


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> I may be mistaken but I'm fairly certain that it is Karajan himself at the far right whacking those kids with a conductor's baton...


That wouldn't be HvK - he'd have his eyes closed, and he would never see them. :devil::lol:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Well... you're wrong - wrong, wrong, wrong... I can't state it any more plainly than that... Before arguing with me about this matter (which quite frankly is kind of frosting me to be honest as you're essentially stating in an all-too-public forum that I either a.) don't know what I'm talking about or else b.) I'm completely making this all up - either way it's terrifically offensive and I may require you to offer me the same apology which I requested from DavidA... which, by the way, I'm still waiting for...)
> 
> Please click on the photo one more time but this time actually LOOK at it... study it... keep staring at it without blinking until your eyes start to water... and you will eventually see that the man in the photo is Herbert von Karajan himself.
> 
> ...


I believe the term 'fake news' has entered the dictionary for the first time this year!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

DavidA said:


> I believe the term 'fake news' has entered the dictionary for the first time this year!


Hey, I'm Canadian... I didn't have anything to do with that election... although in hindsight the Americans really should have let us Canucks vote in the last Presidential election.... but hey, it's your game, your rules... but don't blame us (or me for that matter)...

And as far as that crack about "fake news" is concerned you now owe me not one but two apologies...

Fair warning to one and all (but mostly to those who insist on implying that I'm either outright lying or completely making up most everything that I claim) - I'm getting increasingly more frosted at the suggestion (well-merited) that I'm not telling the God's honest truth... I don't mind the accusations - it's the lack of follow-up apologies (even those that aren't merited) that I resent...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I think you have enough problems being Canadian!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> I think you have enough problems being Canadian!


Jealousy thy name be Barbebleu.... There are two and only two kinds of people on this earth... Canadians... and people who wish they were Canadian... :cheers:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Jealousy thy name be Barbebleu.... There are two and only two kinds of people on this earth... Canadians... and people who wish they were Canadian... :cheers:


Most Canadians are Scottish at heart anyway.:lol:


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> Most Canadians are Scottish at heart anyway.:lol:


Nice! Seriously fine work on the snappy comebacks - my compliments! :tiphat:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Nice! Seriously fine work on the snappy comebacks - my compliments! :tiphat:


One day my friend, one day.

Hard to be snappy on the net, wouldn't you agree?


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> One day my friend, one day.
> 
> Hard to be snappy on the net, wouldn't you agree?


You're a hell of a lot better at "snappy" than I am... It takes me like two or three paragraphs before I get even a glimpse of "snappy" on the horizon...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Nice! Seriously fine work on the snappy comebacks - my compliments! :tiphat:


My wife reminded me that I have a Canadian connection. Her mum, my late mother-in-law, was born in Vancouver!


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> My wife reminded me that I have a Canadian connection. Her mum, my late mother-in-law, was born in Vancouver!


As are all the very finest people in Canada... my belated condolences to you and your wife - I'm sure that your mother-in-law was a lovely woman...

B.C. has traditionally cornered the market in kind-hearted and good-natured women... not necessarily the best looking women - you have to go to Quebec for that - but looks fade and a kind-heart and a good-nature last forever... unless you make the mistake of coming home late from the Canucks game after having one too many beers in which case all bets are off in regards to kind-hearts and good-natures...


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