# Polystylism in 20th Century Classical/Art Music



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

What do you think of polystylism in the context of 20th century classical/art music?

Polystylism was probably created by Russian composer Alfred Schnittke (1934-1996). He was quoted as saying "The goal of my life is to unify serious music and light music, even if I break my neck in doing so". Put simply, polystylism literally refers to the multiple uses of styles and themes in the music. Fellow TC musicians who have a better definition of it than this crude one by me, please feel free to elaborate.

I have just listened to Schnittke's _First Symphony_ (1969-74). It is a perfect example of polystylism. It contains motifs from improvised jazz for piano and violin, themes by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Haydn, aleatoric music (i.e. parts of the music is left to chance; not to be confused with improvisation), church bells etc. and loud orchestral tuning. It was quite an experience.

But back to my question. Personally, I'm not terribly impressed by it, other than for the sake of something rather different and maybe even its apparent novelty. Schnittke's _First Symphony_ would probably sound like a hack work of random sorts, more or less "unified" structurally on paper but not aurally to a simple listener like myself. It might well have some political undertones but I believe the music should still stand on its own merits, regardless. It was a different listening experience but I doubt I would re-visit anytime soon.

What do you think?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> What do you think of polystylism in the context of 20th century classical/art music?
> 
> Polystylism was probably created by Russian composer Alfred Schnittke (1934-1996). He was quoted as saying "The goal of my life is to unify serious music and light music, even if I break my neck in doing so". Put simply, polystylism literally refers to the multiple uses of styles and themes in the music. Fellow TC musicians who have a better definition of it than this crude one by me, please feel free to elaborate.
> 
> ...


Well, but that's the idea, isn't it?, I think that the whole idea of 'polystylism' is the excitement of the clash of those different styles in one single piece, maybe even the bizarre side of it, the humour.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Any composer who can string it all together into a cohesive whole has my admiration. If you like Schnittke's 1st, give his Concerto Grosso no. 2 a listen.

Frank Zappa was a master arranger of all styles as well. Lumpy Gravy; 200 Motels; Orchestral Favorites are great examples.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Gulda's Cello Concerto comes to mind. Not a huge fan of his polystylism, but I find milder ones better, like Gershwin and Ravel (if he counts).


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I have not heard the work by Schnittke which HC mentions but I do have some of his other works on cd. The _Sonata for cello and piano_ (1978), his first in the genre, does mix styles to sometimes disturbing/psychopathic effect, but it is nothing if not thematically unified. There are bits reminding me of jazz, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich, both 'modern tonal' and 'atonal.' The final movement brings all of the ideas of the rest of the work together in a masterful way. This is not just my opinion, it was said by the cellist who played it at a recital I attended. The other thing is that it echoes the innovations of Prokofiev, with the same format (movement layout) as his first violin concerto, slow-fast-slow. Maybe that's another reference. The other thing is that that cello hardly stops playing throughout, as the violinist does in that Prokofiev concerto, this is a very technically demanding work for cellists to play.

The other longer works I have are his _Cello Concerto #1_, his _Piano Quintet _(which some say is his greatest work) and his String Trio. All of these have deep references to other things and are pretty thematically unified, esp. the last two works.

But a type of mixing of 'high' and 'low' arts has happened right throughout the history of music. Look at the wigs, the Baroque and Classical era composers, incorporating eg. various dance forms into their suites and later symphonies, string quartets, and concertos. Haydn's symphonies are like polystylism of the 18th century - no wonder Schnittke referenced him and the other wigs - eg. his 'London' symphonies are full of sonic pictures of the drone of bagpipes, bells ringing, folk tunes of all sorts, and so on.

& I've been just listening to a lot of the music of Saint-Saens, his cycle of 5 piano concertos, and they're full of things like French chansons of the cities and folk songs, tunes reminiscent of operetta and ballet, Neopolitan songs, horn calls from hunting, and even Egyptian boatmen's songs and Asian gamelan which he heard on his many travels. Saint Saens combined things like that with fugues and canons from the Baroque, as well as the then current innovations of LIszt, Wagner, etc. Its an amazing synthesis when done skillfully, and I get more out of it upon each listen.

None of the greats where immune to this, I think. Beethoven and Schubert incorporated the Viennese 'Schrammel-musik,' played in taverns, beer gardens and cafes, into their chamber works. Just listen, for example, to the scherzos of any of Schubert's late piano sonatas. Which reminds me of the 'landler' or rustic folk dances of Austria in Bruckner's and Mahler's symphonies.

So it continues today. Luciano Berio is another 20th century composer who did this, combining everything from Mahler to Debussy and more 'lowbrow' things in his_ Sinfonia_ of the 1960's.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Ultimately, it all comes down to the individual composer and the work in question. Recently I came across Jacques Ibert and his _Divertissement_. This work is certainly polystylistic: a mix of French Impressionism, pastiche, elements of jazz and cabaret, aspects that suggest Hollywood film scores and Latin-American music... and even elements suggestive of music for cartoons. Ibert refused to ally himself to any particular musical fashion or school, maintaining that "all systems are valid", a position that has caused many commentators to categorise him as "eclectic"... yet his eclecticism within a single work surely suggests polystylism... and yet the result, in my opinion, is absolutely engaging.

More recently I think of Osvaldo Golijov. His _La Pasión según San Marcos_ and his opera, _Ainadamar_ build on a broad array of styles: Latin America folk music, klezmer, Islamic/Middle-Eastern, Spanish, Western classical, etc... Again, in these particular instances I think the results are more than successful.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Engaging and eclectic are agreeable words. The Schnittke symphony was probably more extreme than say Classical examples Sid James suggested. I think there is a limit on how many symphonies one could compose consistently in this style before the "novelty" wears off.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I'd argue most great composers are polystylistic in a manner of speaking, in that their style is a combination of their influences filtered through their imagination. For some composers, this combination is more obvious and overt, especially when it utilizes multiple completely different compositional techniques, and sometimes quotations, composers like Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Zappa, Ives. But in Beethoven you hear the fugues of Bach, and German folk music, and Beethoven's own grandiose romanticism which is descended from ideas of his teachers Haydn and Salieri. In Stravinsky, we can hear the Russian folklore of Rimsky-Korsakov, the French colors of Debussy and Ravel, and the influence of Beethoven and Bach, as well as American jazz music. Polystylism will probably become more obvious as composers combine more and more disparate and unlikely influences in their works, because the modern composer is exposed to considerably more diverse musics than the composer 100 years ago.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Actually, reading your OP description of the Schnittke symphony again, it reminded me of John Cage's 'Credo in Us,' a favourite work of mine. HERE is a review/description of it I did before, with youtube clip included. I think another issue is also just the listener's taste. There is little post-1945 music that I have not liked or connected with on some level, but that's been a strong area of focus for me. The only things I don't like is the likes of 'noise music' and also stuff that is rehash (of all kind, of any kind, I do not discriminate, I hate all rehash equally :lol:...but basically 'bad' rehash, or 'very bad' but its another issue). Compared to this, what works I know of Schnittke, combining various approaches, they clicked with me fairly quickly. But being into chamber music, I went for that genre first - and the _Piano Quintet _is amazing. Mind you, its very dark, and I only recognised his reference/quotation of Beethoven's _Pastoral _symphony at the end of the quintet after quite a few listens.

The other issue is that, from what I've read, Schnittke's symphonies lose a lot in just an audio recording. There is a strong performance/visual aspect involved, as in that work above by Cage. I read that in one Schnittke work, there is a cadenza for the conductor! & in another, he reverses what Haydn did in his _Farewell _symphony - the musicians come onto stage one by one rather than leave it. & the irony involved, even judging the titles of some works, eg. the opera 'Life with an idiot' which has a character strongly resembling Lenin but its not actually him, or 'Not a Midsummer Night's Dream.' The latter I think being an ironic deliberate rehash of mid Romantic era (eg. Mendelssohn) musics.

Then there's all manner of works with amplified pianos, which was the most 'advanced' technology Schnittke had in the former Soviet Union, which was jurassic technology compared to stuff Stockhausen and others where using in the West. No wonder that symphony you listened to is purely acoustic. He did not have access to all manner of electronic recording/playback devices that the West Europeans had. But he made of that what he did.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Sid James said:


> I read that in one Schnittke work, there is a cadenza for the conductor! & in another, he reverses what Haydn did in his _Farewell _symphony - the musicians come onto stage one by one rather than leave it...


Yes, that was in the _First Symphony_. The sleeve notes explained it. It "appeared" in the recording as one silent section, and was one of the aleatoric elements. The symphony was banned in USSR. They must have thought the music did not suit the Soviet regime and or he was a nutter!

I have the _Piano Quintet_ op.108 on CD. It was one of the first Schnitkke pieces I ever listened too. Yes, it was quite dark a piece (but not "polystylistic").


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I wouldn't think of polystylism as a style in itself. Styles come and go. Instead, I'd agree that polystylism has always been there. I think of pieces like the finale of Beethoven's Ninth. It includes opera-like recitatives, chorales, marches and fugues.

But perhaps one should make a difference between style and technique. Beethoven combines all theses elements with a common technique.

For me, techniques are things like modality, major/minor tonality, chromaticism, bitonality, free atonality and dodecaphony. Each technique can be used in different styles. The modal technique was used by Palestrina as well as by Ravel and Miles Davis.

Similarly, pieces of the same style can be used with different techniques. There are, for instance, minuets by Mozart, Ravel and Schoenberg.

The evolution of popular music, to me, seems to have been primarily one of styles. Whereas the evolution of classical music has been mainly one of technique.

So I think polystylism can be either a combination of different styles or of different techniques, or both. I don't think that polystylism means rehashing old styles, I don't think it marks the end of creativity. Instead, I think that in terms of technique, pretty much everything that was to be explored has been explored. Now, it's a matter of how one uses this broad aresenal of techniques (as well as styles), how one combines them in a unique fashion to create new works.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> ...
> I have the _Piano Quintet_ op.108 on CD. It was one of the first Schnitkke pieces I ever listened too. Yes, it was quite dark a piece (but not "polystylistic").


Well then it must be from a different 'period' or 'phase' to his 'polystylistic' works. It definitely has that 'quote' or fragment from Beethoven's _Pastoral_ symphony at the end, kind of recurring as an ostinato, almost like a minimalist tape loop (but played on piano, no tape involved). That work is also infused with waltz vibes, but they are dark and spooky. Like Johann Strauss gone off the deep end. Here's a review of mine of the _Piano Quintet_.

Similar thing with his _String Trio_, which has the 'happy birthday to you' song distorted out of all proportion, its basically psychopathic. So I can understand you suggesting the 'nutter' bit but its deliberate, I think. It speaks to the tortured history of 20th century Europe. Speaking to that, the _String Trio _was done in 1985 for the 100th anniversary of Berg's birth and the fiftieth of his death. In it, he quotes Berg's music, as well as others associated with Vienna - the city that commissioned it - eg. Schubert and Mahler. I can't hear the quotes always, but I do get the vibes of a kind of dissolution of reality. Schnittke studied in Vienna in his younger days and of course it was the site of various things people would like to forget (eg. Anschluss of 1938).

But I am arguing by inference regarding his symphonies, I have not heard them. They would have been the next step for me after his chamber musics, but I have not gone in that direction yet. But there are 9 of them, I think, and I doubt all of them are polystylistic. Since it seems he changed 'phases' or 'periods' but still kept his overall style.

I am very glad though that here he is being tried out and discussed more objectively, not used as a whipping boy/target which occured on another forum I was on and left ages ago.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Polystylism is great. I think it should be more of a "thing" among modern composers. Schnittke and Zappa were famous for it but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I wonder if there's any difference between contamination and polystilism, if it's the same i think that often it produced wonderful things, the problem with it is when it become a mere demonstration of eclecticism.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

norman bates said:


> ... the problem with it is when it become a mere demonstration of eclecticism.


That's a good way of putting it. It really is about "compositional balancing". Listen to Schnitkke's _First Symphony_ versus his _Second Symphony_. The latter is almost but not quite a mass, given its choral and sacred text, but thoroughly symphonic because the sacred texts are sung only once without treatment of the choral parts following traditional common classical formats for mass settings (e.g. using the fugue). When the voice stops, the work sounds symphonic. But the _First Symphony_ is very much "polystylistic" to the extreme.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I think polystylism tends to be at its best when its a good synthesis of the various techniques, such as Schnittke's Concerti Grossi. Still though, the schizophrenic sound of something like the First Symphony has its place as a form of artistic expression, an effect of something like musical collage, and it is certainly a very striking work.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

norman bates said:


> the problem with it is when it become a mere demonstration of eclecticism.


Considering how factional music tended to be for the first two-thirds of the twentieth century, a "mere" demonstration of eclecticism doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me. It's actually kind of refreshing to me to see composers able to dabble in different idioms without having to claim ultimate allegiance to just one.


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