# "Getting" Beethoven (on his birthday :) )



## PianoCoach (Nov 28, 2010)

There are composers that I don't "get", although I try. I do "get" Beethoven, but it took work. Hopefully for those who mention that they don't "get" Beethoven, let me share some thoughts. I could write hundreds of pages on "getting Beethoven", but let me share what I believe to be his essence.

Beethoven followed Hayden/Mozart. Hayden/Mozart (classical era composers) wrote beautiful music that was not offensive, always in good taste and entertaining. Beethoven's basic philosophy was that "the greater the tension, the greater the resolution". This belief was developed throughout his lifetime.

Beethoven will stir anxiety in the listener and push him to the edge. Almost always (with a few exceptions), the tense music resolves to beautiful music. The sweet "endings" become even sweeter. In my silly way, I like to compare Beethoven to eating a fire ball. The hot cinnamon burns your mouth but eventually the sweet sugars take over for a euphoric moment.

I was away for a weekend a few years ago and decided to listen to all 32 piano sonatas in sequence as I read Cooper's biography. As the series progresses, you can hear longer development sections. More tension, greater resolution. Beethoven's final sonata opus 111 is only two movements. (in fact his publisher initially refused to pay for the work until a 3rd movement was written -- he didn't "get" it either). The first movement is tension, the second movement is resolution. This final piano work was not an accident. It was a statement. Perhaps the statement is "at the end of a miserable life there is a heavenly reward". Perhaps the statement is "on the outside I'm a miserable personality, but inside I'm a good man with good intentions". Perhaps the statement is "at the end of strife, there is glory". Listen to it. Make up your own mind. Enjoy it. It changed me forever.

Beethoven's Third Symphony "Eroica" altered music history forever. Beethoven a miserable man dealing with deafness, romantic disappointments, illnesses and psychological issues stemming from an abusive childhood ......... overcomes these obstacles. He emerges a hero. Much of Beethoven's music (especially during this middle part of his life) is about heroism.

If you really want to enjoy and "get" Beethoven, I suggest you buy recordings of his piano sonatas, symphonies and string quartets. Purchase Solomon's or Cooper's biography. Read and listen in sequence. Take it slowly and enjoy it. When you get to the piano sonata 32 (opus 111), you will "get it". You'll also have tears in your eyes.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

That's a lovely post, PianoCoach. As someone who wants to but doesn't quite "get" Beethoven - though I recently bought all his piano sonatas and I love them - I find your insights helpful. Tension-Resolution. I hadn't thought of that.

I listen to Mozart obsessively and find his music to be profound and increasingly subtle. I wouldn't think of it as "inoffensive" or genteel in any way. It expresses everything. But I love Beethoven's sonatas - the ones I've listened to - and there's definitely something different going on there, so I'll keep in mind what you've said next time I listen.

Don't like Haydn, though. Don't dislike him either. Totally indifferent, actually. Not enough tension, I reckon. And not enough profundity either, though I could be wrong about him, too...


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## PianoCoach (Nov 28, 2010)

Kieran,

I too was a Mozart lover (as I still am). In fact, I used to love the Baroque and Classical composers and then stopped after Mozart. It's been my adult life journey that has exposed me to other works. Good luck with your journey. I hope it's as great a ride as mine has.

Haydn's (thanks for catching my spelling) brilliance lies in his wit, in my opinion. Read up on the Farewell Symphony and the Surprise Symphony first. Then listen to the music. You'll find it brilliant.

PS. Can anyone explain the essence of Mahler or Stravinsky music to me? I would like to "get" them.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I really fell in love with Beethoven when I heard the second movement of his 5th piano concerto. Just melts the heart.

I'm also trying to understand Mahler. I've listened to some of his symphonies many times, and still have difficulty getting them (especially the 6th). Some of the music is really beautiful (I really like the 5th, and the 6th's andante), but at times I just feel lost.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Beethoven would seem to me to be a pretty easy composer to get to grips with. There is a directness to his music and a quite straightforward emotional nature to it. It isn't as florid as music of the Romantic period and it isn't always as formal as the high classical style can be sometimes.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Llyranor said:


> I really fell in love with Beethoven when I heard the second movement of his 5th piano concerto. Just melts the heart.
> 
> I'm also trying to understand Mahler. I've listened to some of his symphonies many times, and still have difficulty getting them (especially the 6th). Some of the music is really beautiful (I really like the 5th, and the 6th's andante), but at times I just feel lost.


Dont worry, the 6th is quite a challening piece. Its so violent, disturbing and seems to move in an illogical manner during the finale. Repeated listening will reward you though, as long as you make sure you listen to the whole thing through without pauses or distractions.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not sure how you 'get' composers other then listening to their works multiple times, and read up on them. My general suggestion is that if after listening to a piece 5 times you don't like it any more then the first time you heard it, then maybe that composer (or piece) just isn't for you. 

But it's always worth a try, cause that moment when you finally 'get' the composer, it's like making a new friend. Happened with me and Richard Strauss just yesterday


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PianoCoach said:


> Beethoven's basic philosophy was that "the greater the tension, the greater the resolution". This belief was developed throughout his lifetime.


Can you produce a source for this statement?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Can you produce a source for this statement?


Its kind of evidenced by analysis of his music.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> Its kind of evidenced by analysis of his music.


...

Can you produce a source for this statement? Or is this original research performed by yourself?
Not trying to lynch you here, just interested in reading more.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I know this from personal experience both analysing and performing Beethoven. Compared to his predecessors Beethoven began using much more dissonant and complex chords yet they are still nearly always resolved. This effect is definitely noticeable when hearing his music and is in fact an important 'technique' in all of the following romantic music, culminating in its extremes with Mahler.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I see. So you claim to know and understand Beethoven's fundamental philosophy, yet didn't feel the need to consult the +100 years of academic discourse before yourself for any kind of support.


PianoCoach said:


> Beethoven followed Hayden/Mozart. Hayden/Mozart (classical era composers) wrote beautiful music that was not offensive, always in good taste and entertaining.


I wonder what you make of these, which came +40 years before Beethoven's Late Quartets and Grosse Fuge.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Feels like a lyching to me 

Yes and NO.
The 100 years of academic discourse is also based upon the personal conclusions that learned people have drawn from analysis of his work. Music is not a concrete science, people hear sounds in different ways. Each theorist who may have commented upon Beethoven's music may interpret the notes slightly differently or interpret their function differently. I may do all the research possible into the writings and conclusions of others, and these may affect my personal conclusion - however in order to understand why Beethoven's music makes *me* feel the way it does I have to stop looking at 2nd hand analyses that provide the answers to other people. I have to actually go and see what is in those scores that evokes certain feelings in me. Unless some day we find a diary in which Beethoven analysed and explained his own scores in detail, each and every comment made on his work is entirely subjective and only refers to the listeners personal experience of the music.
My personal view is that the build up of tension through harmonic or rhythmic devices, and then the subsequent resolution is the principle driving force behind many of the emotions Beethoven manages to evoke in me personally.
In conclusion: Yes I do feel the need to, and indeed have, consulted many books. No, In the end only I can make conclusions that are valid for myself. (I may be wrong and revise my opinion a few years down the line anyway)


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> Feels like a lyching to me
> 
> Yes and NO.
> The 100 years of academic discourse is also based upon the personal conclusions that learned people have drawn from analysis of his work. Music is not a concrete science, people hear sounds in different ways. Each theorist who may have commented upon Beethoven's music may interpret the notes slightly differently or interpret their function differently. I may do all the research possible into the writings and conclusions of others, and these may affect my personal conclusion - however in order to understand why Beethoven's music makes *me* feel the way it does I have to stop looking at 2nd hand analyses that provide the answers to other people. I have to actually go and see what is in those scores that evokes certain feelings in me. Unless some day we find a diary in which Beethoven analysed and explained his own scores in detail, each and every comment made on his work is entirely subjective and only refers to the listeners personal experience of the music.
> ...


Thats perfectly fair. Sorry if you felt victimized. It's just that I don't fully get Beethoven, as I find him to be the most highly developed and transcendental of all composers, especially the late works. As such I find your suggestion that his core philosophy can be summarized in an 8-word sentence with something as vague and obvious as "the greater the tension, the greater the resolution" a bit shallow. For example, his most tense work, the Grosse Fugue, to me is a storm of prolonged existential anxiety followed by a very short, withheld resolution which is almost sarcastic/nihilist sounding, rather than some great resolution. "The greater the tension, the greater the resolution" is more of a means than an end in his philosophy, and a tool he only sometimes used. If it is the sole template upon which you interpret his music, I think you are missing out on a lot.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I just listened to the Grosse Fugue for the first time last night, and I can safely say that I didn't get it. What I can say, though, is that I felt that there was a lot of interesting and complex stuff going on, and I clearly felt that my feeble mind just couldn't follow it. Maybe after a couple of years I'll be able to understand this mysterious piece better!

Now listening to "Eroica" conducted by Bernstein. Pure bliss!


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Nix said:


> I'm not sure how you 'get' composers other then listening to their works multiple times, and read up on them. My general suggestion is that if after listening to a piece 5 times you don't like it any more then the first time you heard it, then maybe that composer (or piece) just isn't for you.


At least not at the moment. But one's taste tends to change over time, so revisiting discarded composers after a number of years is a good idea. A few years ago, I wouldn't have "got" Dutilleux at all, but now he's one of my favorite composers. I don't get Beethoven, but I will return to him eventually to give him another chance. In 2033 or so, when I'm done with all the other, more promising acquaintances on my list.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Thats perfectly fair. Sorry if you felt victimized. It's just that I don't fully get Beethoven, as I find him to be the most highly developed and transcendental of all composers, especially the late works. As such I find your suggestion that his core philosophy can be summarized in an 8-word sentence with something as vague and obvious as "the greater the tension, the greater the resolution" a bit shallow. For example, his most tense work, the Grosse Fugue, to me is a storm of prolonged existential anxiety followed by a very short, withheld resolution which is almost sarcastic/nihilist sounding, rather than some great resolution. "The greater the tension, the greater the resolution" is more of a means than an end in his philosophy, and a tool he only sometimes used. If it is the sole template upon which you interpret his music, I think you are missing out on a lot.


Im glad I managed to persuade you, no hard feelings :tiphat:

Of course, this is a gross generalisation. Im not entirely sure yet how his later (deaf) works fit into this scheme.


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