# I am back...for now.



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Hello fellow Talk Classical members,

I am sure some of you will remember me, and a great many of you will not know who I am. I used to be fairly active on TC and, after a hiatus of about 1.5 or two years, I think, I am willing to give this another shot.

I love classical music and I love talking about it. I like talking about it with adults who understand how civil, thought-provoking conversation works. I like talking about classical music with people who realize our opinions on certain subject will differ, and a difference of opinion one way or the other does not mean one person is right while the other is wrong. I like talking with people who realize, with as much facility as I do, that all art is a matter of TASTE and we all have different taste. I like talking with people who have strong opinions but are friendly, respectful and comfortable with my strong opinions when they do not match up with their own. I like talking to people who are adult/confident enough in their own opinions that, when theirs differ from mine, they do not take it upon themselves to put on the snob hat and tell me why I am wrong. The bottom line, I like talking about music, not arguing about it.

I have a few times left this forum because of the trollish behavior of a handful of members who were, I am afraid, allowed to carry on and make this an unfriendly environment for too long. I will leave again if more of this persists. I have vastly better things to do with my time then take in the playground atmosphere of trolls. However, if the conversation can be kept friendly, I have no problem making the time to join in interesting discussion.

Also, just so we can be clear, I want to announce that if I make a statement along the lines of "Sibelius is better than Bruckner," this is not a scientific declaration of fact. It is an OPINION. Just because I do not explicitly state that it is an opinion beforehand does not mean I am implying that it is a fact. PLEASE BE AWARE OF THAT. You all should be astute enought to know that when I say such a thing, I am simply sharing an opinion. Of course, anything that looks like a fact probably is, for example, "Bach was born before Boulez." Anything that does not seem to have scientific proveability is merely my own personal opinion. Please respect my opinion the same way I intend to respect yours, even if your opinion is "Bruckner is better than Sibelius."

I just wanted to get all of that out of the way. I hope those who remember me have been well and I hope to get to know many of the "newer" people here. Let's give this yet another shot...


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome back Tapkaara! Perhaps you may shed some light on my problem with many many recordings of Sibelius' music: they sound :angel: tame, submissive, domesticated :angel:, while Sibelius' spirit is a wandering ghost who is following the call of the wild, independent & homeless. I guess that Bruckner (being a humble Catholic) never ventured into the pagan barrenness into which Sibelius drifted. But again, why do so many nowadays conductors try to convert Sibelius into a law-abiding Catholic?


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Welcome back


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

TxllxT said:


> Welcome back Tapkaara! Perhaps you may shed some light on my problem with many many recordings of Sibelius' music: they sound :angel: tame, submissive, domesticated :angel:, while Sibelius' spirit is a wandering ghost who is following the call of the wild, independent & homeless. I guess that Bruckner (being a humble Catholic) never ventured into the pagan barrenness into which Sibelius drifted. But again, why do so many nowadays conductors try to convert Sibelius into a law-abiding Catholic?


Thank you for the welcome.

Allow me to generalize a bit. I feel that there are roughly two schools of Sibelius interpretation: old school and new school. I know, these monikers are not very original, nor very descriptive in and of themselves, so allow to to elaborate.

I feel that the older school of conductors such as Kajanus, Karajan, Monteux, Collins, Stokowski, Sargent, Ormandy, Barbirolli, Beecham, etc., had a better handle on that pagan Sibelian sound than most modern, or new school, conductors. I don't know if it because these conductors, most of them, anyway, were contemporaries of Sibelius and were thus more in tune to the intentions of a (then) living composer. I have to feel that this is probably likely. At any rate, I find there is more passion and adventure in the recordings of these conductors than is to be found in more modern interpretations, for example: Davis, Berglund, Jarvi, etc. There are exceptions, however.

The most "recent" cycle of symphonies under Colin Davis are fantastic, a far cry from his earlier Boston cycle, which lacked spirit. Paavo Berglund's recordings of Kullervo capture the wildness of the north just fine, but his symphonies always fall flat for me. The Jarvis don't really do it for me; these are icy interpretations.

Osmo Vanska, probably THE Sibelian living today, is surely a modern conductor, but I find most of his interpretations of Sibelius are spectacularly good. He is a little less successful in his first recorded cycle of the symphonies and I have not heard any of his new cycle to comment.

I feel there is a need to interprete Sibelius with icy chill, because Finland is an icy and chilly place. (This is why there are icebergs and fjords on many a Sibelius album cover, even though Finland has neither fjords nor icebergs.) If one is to interprete Sibelius with fiery passion, you are not being accurate because there is no fire or passion in Finland. Everything is stoic, chilly and reserved.

The old guard conductors seemed not to be influenced by this national stereotype and took their inspiration from the true spirit of Sibelius's music as opposed to inaccurate preconceived notions about the Finnish character.

If you would like specific recommendations for Sibelius not on the rocks, I'd be happy to help!


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Sonata said:


> Welcome back


Many thanks. I am happy to be back...I think.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Welcome back. I remember you were a big fan of Akira Ifukube.






:cheers:


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

aleazk said:


> Welcome back. I remember you were a big fan of Akira Ifukube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indeed! I wrote the liner notes for the CD in which that recording of Deux Caracteres, which you posted, appears!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Welcome back Tapkaara. I agree with the gist of what you said in your opening post. Some of the past years on this forum have been difficult to say the least. Basically there was a lot of bully behaviour. Now I think its better, although I'm on here less than before. I think there is on the whole a more open atmosphere which is receptive to expression of a diversity of opinions. There is only a minority of people who seem to have difficulties accepting that diversity is a fact of life, but all I can do is ignore them. I got a few 'minders' on this forum, ready to pounce on my every word. But basically the best tactic to use is not give them air to breathe, not let them take you in hook line and sinker.

Anyway I think its an interesting time you have rejoined since Sibelius seems to be getting quite a bit of traction on this forum...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Nice to have you back, I wondered whether you had settled on a very remote Japanese island - or something similar ;-).


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Hey, welcome back! I've missed you around here.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Tap, tap, Taaapi! 

It's good to see you on, kid. I often think of your words when I'm listening to Sibelius.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Sid James said:


> Welcome back Tapkaara. I agree with the gist of what you said in your opening post. Some of the past years on this forum have been difficult to say the least. Basically there was a lot of bully behaviour. Now I think its better, although I'm on here less than before. I think there is on the whole a more open atmosphere which is receptive to expression of a diversity of opinions. There is only a minority of people who seem to have difficulties accepting that diversity is a fact of life, but all I can do is ignore them. I got a few 'minders' on this forum, ready to pounce on my every word. But basically the best tactic to use is not give them air to breathe, not let them take you in hook line and sinker.
> 
> Anyway I think its an interesting time you have rejoined since Sibelius seems to be getting quite a bit of traction on this forum...


Yes, I am noting that there seems to be MUCH more Sibelius talk than before. I welcome that! So, it is oppertune that I should return now, I guess.

Oh, I like your term "minders." We'll see how long it takes me to get mine. If there get to be too many, I will leave again. I have no problem letting them win. Again, I am busy enough to live without TC, despite the nice folks on it, like you! Good to "see" you.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

joen_cph said:


> Nice to have you back, I wondered whether you had settled on a very remote Japanese island - or something similar ;-).


No, no Japanese islands. Still am in beautiful southern California. Thank you for your kind words!


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Manxfeeder said:


> Hey, welcome back! I've missed you around here.


I have missed the nice people, too. If I leave again, I'll be sure to give those people interested my Facebook info so we can be in touch that way.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

kv466 said:


> Tap, tap, Taaapi!
> 
> It's good to see you on, kid. I often think of your words when I'm listening to Sibelius.


I am flattered! Good to see you too!


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> Thank you for the welcome.
> 
> Allow me to generalize a bit. I feel that there are roughly two schools of Sibelius interpretation: old school and new school. I know, these monikers are not very original, nor very descriptive in and of themselves, so allow to to elaborate.
> 
> ...


If somebody is getting hot & close on the cool & distant Sibelius it is Tapkaara!  Thanks for your analysis. Still I sense some 'cold fire' in Sibelius' music, perhaps it is 'frozen fire'. For example the momentum that Symphony nr.5 (Karajan, BPO) gets towards the end.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Welcome back and nice to meet you! I must have joined during the time you were away. From what it seems, TC has definitely grown up (or perhaps all trolls wiped out with specially developed pesticide ) and that's awesome that you seem to be an expert on interpreting *Sibelius!*


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> Also, just so we can be clear, I want to announce that if I make a statement along the lines of "Sibelius is better than Bruckner," this is not a scientific declaration of fact. It is an OPINION. Just because I do not explicitly state that it is an opinion beforehand does not mean I am implying that it is a fact. PLEASE BE AWARE OF THAT.


That's strange...I thought it was a fact.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Tapkaara is as good as they come in terms of posting here! And, Coag, TC has definitely 'changed' but I wouldn't _grown up_. The fact that we still got good guys like this is a fine sign, though.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

kv466 said:


> Tapkaara is as good as they come in terms of posting here! And, Coag, TC has definitely 'changed' but I wouldn't _grown up_. The fact that we still got good guys like this is a fine sign, though.


Based _only_ upon his _*Declaration of Standards & Intent*_, I see no way that _Tapkaara_ can survive here. His requirements extend well beyond the *TC Guidelines of Innocuousness*, ambiguous though their enforcement may be. His *One Way IMO* is of itself unlikely to be observed.

Of course I could be wrong; considering how poorly I understand the TC environment, that is even probable. So... Good Luck with that, _Tapkaara_

:tiphat:


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks again to all for the welcomes!

I will not claim to be an "expert" on Sibelius, per se. I have friends who are certifiable Sibelius experts. But I do know a lot about him as he has been a subject of fairly intensive study over the years. Anyway, I am happy to help anyone along their own personal Sibelius quests, be it a need for a certain recording or a question about a work. I will always do my best to answer.

As for the trolls being gone, at least for the most part, I hope it's true!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I sometimes post posts which are only meant provoke, but i do only do it when i notice " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" posts.
But its very rare if any off my negative posts are directed to a person, i direct the to the " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" attitude.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

jani said:


> I sometimes post posts which are only meant provoke, but i do only do it when i notice " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" posts.
> But its very rare if any off my negative posts are directed to a person, i direct the to the " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" attitude.


You don't need to explain yourself to ANYBODY.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

moody said:


> You don't need to explain yourself to ANYBODY.


I wanted to!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

jani said:


> I sometimes post posts which are only meant provoke, but i do only do it when i notice " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" posts.
> But its very rare if any off my negative posts are directed to a person, i direct the to the " If you don't like composer X /era X you aren't open minded" attitude.


I understand. And the report button is always good if you feel you (or someone else) are being insulted. Big difference betwen saying Composer X is boring compared to a personal insult.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Let's face it. Conversation about music shouldn't be limited to mere pleasantries. I think those with opposing opinions should be able to have a go at things and prove their points. Where it gets "unfun" is when the opposing said tries to discredit your intelligence. One phrase I HATE is when you are told "you are missing the point." A lot of points get missed in here, it seems. No, I am not missing the point. I get the point well. Just because I am disagreeing with you doesn't mean I am missing the point. We just have different opinions about the point. You see, to be told you are missing the point is to be told you are wrong. On matters of pure taste, there is no right or wrong.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

It looks like you and I may not understand "point" in the same way. How does one 'prove a point' without the potential for being wrong about it?


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

We only accept those with "unconditional love" back. No ifs, ands, buts, or whimpering.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

jani said:


> I wanted to!


OK THEN,not to WORRY.


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