# Is the Mahlerites and Wagnerites the most fanatical of classical music fans?



## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Who between these two the most fanatical? They are some of the most vocal fans in my opinion... 

Who among composer fans are the most fanatical? What do you think of fanaticism about your favorite composer?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Nobody is "fanatical" about Beethoven. His elevation to a position superior to all other composers is a simple matter of calm and reasoned logic.

Wagner or Mahler, of course that is a different matter...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Its a tough call but I would say Wagnerites.

That's not counting for the occassional Beethoven groupie........

Picture of Wagnerites enclosed....









well given the chance - he may have been........


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Typical Mozart groupie...


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Chopinistas are a pretty violent and dangerous fanatical sect. You don't want to board a flight with one or more of those crazies amongst the passengers.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

For Your Eyes Only.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Andolink said:


> Chopinistas are a pretty violent and dangerous fanatical sect. You don't want to board a flight with one or more of those crazies amongst the passengers.


But they have nice soft skin.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I suspect that Brucknerites are the most fanatical. I have heard persistent rumors about an annual Brucknerthon in California (where else) wherein the fanatics (and possibly victims) gather to listen to recordings of all the symphonies, played in sequence. The only excuse for leaving the group is when answering a call of nature - and that process must take place within hearing.

Don't contemplate this scenario too long... the health effects could be severe.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Definitely the anti-modernists.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Well, I know of the existence of Bruckner Societies, Mahler Societies, and of course Wagner Societies. There even exists a Furtwängler Society. I've long been of the opinion that _negative_ commentary directed their way contributes to the sustenance of such groups. There's less need to defend Beethoven from unreasoning criticism than there is to defend Wagner- or Mahler-- or Bruckner.

I'd say Wagner partisans are the most fanatical, which is consistent with my surmise, i.e.: since he draws the greater amount of unreasoning criticism, his fans feel obliged to offer the most spirited counter-arguments.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't know. Is they?

Seriously speaking, I doubt it. There are more obscure figures that attract a smaller, extremely devoted following: Havergal Brian, Charles Alkan, Sorabji...anyone who is devoted to them in the face of all of the criticism and scorn heaped on such figures must be pretty devoted. Mahler and Wagner are canonical composers who have survived and will most likely survive into the future, as long as this tradition thrives.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I remember a thread last year re: Schumann that generated much steam, Interestingly though they had very little to say about his lieder'
Very poor on vocal music this forum,is it an age thing or what, because I don't see how you can be a Schumann or Schubert supporter without being into that aspect.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

My firstborn child shall be named "Gustav"


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Stargazer said:


> My firstborn child shall be named "Gustav"


That's a harsh thing if it's a girl.

Gustava? Gustavova?

Gustavella!


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Pelléasian(s).


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

The most fanatical are the modernists.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

peeyaj said:


> Who between these two the most fanatical? They are some of the most vocal fans in my opinion...
> 
> Who among composer fans are the most fanatical? What do you think of fanaticism about your favorite composer?


I have not met Handeliana fanatics. Fans are polite and ever welcoming to promote Handel's music. Take me for example...


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Typical Mozart groupie...


But is it really fair to call him a groupie when he was so much better? :3


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> That's a harsh thing if it's a girl.
> 
> Gustava? Gustavova?
> 
> Gustavella!


But what if the child turns out to be a transgendered guy? Then the name would be a lucky choice  Similarly if the child is female but identifies as androgynous or is very tomboyish


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

John Culshaw told a story in 'Ring Resounding' how they played the first recording of Rheingold to a society dedicated to Wagner. He said he was astonished at their reaction. Instead of congratulating Decca on recording the first Rheingold they asked him why he hadn't recorded the rest of the Ring. He has a particularly caustic memory of a woman he calls 'an apparition' dressed in black, a Wagnerian fanatic who didn't even appear top know who the characters were.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

I remember Couchie, the most fanatical of all Wagnerites.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I never remember being insulted online by a Mahlerite. But can remember several run ins with Wagnerites.

Even if one makes a reasonable criticism of his music, butressing it with the fact that he was all in all a great composer, a great innovator, etc. Problem with fanatics is obvious, their composer is like an idol to be worshipped. All or nothing, it has to be TOTAL adulation. The other thing is that some of these big fans of Wagner would drop a line like '...but you don't like Wagner' in the middle of a conversation/argument about a totally different topic. Eg. if I made a good point regarding some other composer, someone who is a Wagner groupie, or going thru a Wagner phase, puts me down when we're not even talking about Wagner. So their superior ability to sit thru endless operas and appreciate the intricacies of Wagner's music means they have the right to put down others, even though the topic is not Wagner. So in other words, you like Wagner, you are automatically superior to those who don't like him.

That's perfect logic. Well, perfect for them, but not for me.

So what I'm saying is being fanatical about Wagner or anyone else doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean you got better taste, or can communicate well, or that everything you say is like Gospel. Well it may be Gospel to you, to your religion but it aint for me.

Now I probably insulted half this forum's esteemed membership, so I'll crawl back into my apolitical and 'safe' smallest target as possible shell now.

*EDIT - but I must admit a lot of what I'm saying was in the past. There is more respect all round on this forum now than I remember ever before. The forum culture I think has changed over the past few months for the better. Keep it up, people! *


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

How about us TULL fans.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Probably the Schubertians ;-)


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

I have known the Messiaenites and the Ravel-is-way-better-than-Debussy-ites to be rather feisty and pigheaded at times.

Not that I would be part of anything like that...


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> I have known the Messiaenites and the Ravel-is-way-better-than-Debussy-ites to be rather feisty and pigheaded at times.
> 
> Not that I would be part of anything like that...


I fit into only one of those categories. The other I would vigorously protest against. 

Anyway, I'm a Wagner fan, but not really a Wagnerite. I am certainly a Mahlerian, though. My screen name says so!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> The most fanatical are the modernists.


Ironic that I currently got two 'modernists' on my ignore list, yet I count myself a fan of modern music. But not a fanatic (& a number of the ideologies to do with modern music I am no fan of either - but ultimately its the music that counts, not the dogmas or groupies and cliques). The thing isn't what you listen to, ultimately its attitude. If you communicate on this forum in an unkind and rude way to others, well I think you're shooting yourself in the foot, as well as your cause whether it be modernist, Wagnerite, Mozartian or whatever. Shoving stuff down people's throats is no way to communicate in my book. So you risk killing your message, no matter how intelligent or knowledgeable you are. The ends does not justify the means, in other words.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Gota put a word in for the Varesites


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

How about the *Ligetians* or *Beethovenites*


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

I must admit that every "look at me, im super-duper obsessed" is equal...

..ly annoying


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Ravndal said:


> I must admit that every "look at me, im super-duper obsessed" is equal...
> 
> ..ly annoying


My obsession is not a composer, but music & politics/history, which I don't talk of often here now. I would never worship a composer like a god. Its against my dogmatic-politico-ideology :lol: ...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

what about a demigod


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Ravndal said:


> I must admit that every "look at me, im super-duper obsessed" is equal...
> 
> ..ly annoying


CoAG made it cool though. Just no one can look as good being a fanatic as him.


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## palJacky (Nov 27, 2010)

the all time worst fanatic I have met was a devotee of KARLHEINZ STOCKHAUSEN.
I know this is just one data point....but this was during the ninties when it wasn't so easy to expose yourself to Stockhausen's music. no youtube, very little of his music was in the stores(even Tower Classical in Hollywood), no 'cd burning' to 'turn on' people to your favorite 'tunes'...

you had to mail order expensive discs from Germany.

I remembered thinking that if there was a chance that listening to that much Stockhausen would turn me into that sort of fanatic....
better not even to try at all.

Nah, too much other 'new to me' music that was easier to get my hands (and ears) on.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm a Mahlerite but I am not fanatical.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I am a Wagnerite, but whether I am fanatical, I leave that for you to decide. It is easier to judge from the outside.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> I remember Couchie, the most fanatical of all Wagnerites.


Your obsession with Schubert certainly gives Couchie a run for his money! So I think it is maybe a personality thing more than a trait in any of these composers.

I personally don't mind the fanaticism, but when it seems to become to the exclusion of all other music it seems a little over the top to me.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

tdc said:


> ...
> 
> I personally don't mind the fanaticism, but when it seems to become to the exclusion of all other music it seems a little over the top to me.


Well I like BOTH kinds of music...

Sorry had to slip that one in. Gotta have a bit of corny jokes here and there. Just can't make jokes about [insert GODLY composer of your choice!].


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Bach fans are sometimes fanatical in a different way. While Mahler and Wagner fanatics rave and foam at the mouth (I should know, on a given day I might be both of them), Bach fans might just give a wry little laugh and sneer at you if you think Bach is anything less than God and the greatest composer of all time.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Xaltotun said:


> Bach fans are sometimes fanatical in a different way. ...Bach fans might just give a wry little laugh and sneer at you if you think Bach is anything less than God and the greatest composer of all time.


Well since ol' J.S. liked to play games with fugues - eg. turning them back to front, maybe he's GOD or maybe he's a DOG.

Dunno. To some people around here, they treat their dogs like gods...so maybe being a dog aint a bad thing?


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Sid James said:


> Well since ol' J.S. liked to play games with fugues - eg. turning them back to front, maybe he's GOD or maybe he's a DOG.
> 
> Dunno. To some people around here, they treat their dogs like gods...*so maybe dogging aint a bad thing?*


Oh you!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Couchie's advocation of Wagner was no doubt heartfelt but it was overcooked to the point of overkill and predictable to the point of self-parody. I can't imagine for one moment that he is/was similarly one-eyed when away from this site where we knew what to expect and had to gently humour him.


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