# Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - The Piano Concertos



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Recently I posted a rather restricted poll about Mozart's piano concertos so I am posting this to see what everyone's actual favourites are and why people think they are/n't so special.

I particularly enjoy his minor concertos, they have a lot more depth to them however I still enjoy the major ones, especially Nos. 23 and 13


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I have an unusual fondness for #17 in G Major.

Other than that, I love all of them really, especially the usual suspects 20-25 +27.

The only ones I'm not so fond of are the (literally) unoriginal 1-4.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Point of clarification: Concertos #20 and #24 are Mozarts's major minor key piano concertos.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Point of clarification: Concertos #20 and #24 are Mozarts's major minor key piano concertos.


I think they're the only minor key piano concertos...if I'm not mistaken.

So no need to make that confusing distinction.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

No. 5 and no. 27, curious sense of happiness, a bit of an attraction I've always had with these pieces.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> No. 5 and no. 27, curious sense of happiness, a bit of an attraction I've always had with these pieces.


Interesting you think so. Brendel reckons the mood of 27 is one of 'deepest resignation'.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> No. 5 and no. 27, curious sense of happiness, a bit of an attraction I've always had with these pieces.





DavidA said:


> Interesting you think so. Brendel reckons the mood of 27 is one of 'deepest resignation'.


The "mood" of no. 27 is Bb major.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> I particularly enjoy his minor concertos, they have a lot more depth to them however I still enjoy the major ones, especially Nos. 23 and 13


No. 23 is perhaps the minorest of his major-key concertos, and not just because of the grief-laden slow movement. The first movement seems to me to be imbued with a certain wistfulness and even the irrepressible joy of the last movement seems to me almost like recollections of joy rather than joy in the present tense. All of this of course very subjectively.



violadude said:


> I have an unusual fondness for #17 in G Major.


Ah, yes, I am also very fond of no, 17. And then also no 9, a relatively early but remarkably mature one.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I think the slow movement in #27 is one of the most resigned and delicious pieces of music, ever. It eschews mindless virtuosity in the cause of taste.

I love all the PC's, and I find something new in them all the time. Cuthbert Girdlestone is your only man when it comes to writing about them (although, of course) there are others)...


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

One of my favorite bodies of work by anyone. 20 & 23 are my favorites, with 21, 24 and 27 a silly centimeter behind. But after 4, they're all great. If forced to go with one set--which would be a silly thing to do--I probably would opt for the Perahia, set which Sony is practically giving away. But there are so many other worthy alternatives.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

What is up with everyone's disregard of #26? I can't recall off the top of my head intricate details about it but I do remember liking it very much.

Edit: I just listened to the first few minutes of 26 again and it sounds pretty brilliant to me.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I think there's an historical prejudice against #26, because according to the books, he knocked it out for some royal gala, and didn't even furnish the score with the left hand parts. Personally, I think it's great and I'm certain that Mr Girdlestone is in concurrence on the matter. It's reputation has grown more, but it was considered the redhead stepchild for a long time...


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

My favorites are the usual suspects:
20. D minor sturm und drang fun
21. So cheery and delightful, and the iconic slow movement. I feel like I'm walking through a Roman garden
23. Heavenly and pastoral, the slow movement makes me forget time has passed
24. C minor, more sturm und drang fun
25. Grand and majestic, sounds like it's anticipating Beethoven 
26. Though it seems to be somewhat disregarded, the middle movement is charming
27. Finishes strong (though I am not as familiar with it as I am with the previous, I've only listened to it once)


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

The whole set should be one of the most treasured things in all of classical music. Mozart revolutionised what a piano concerto "is" or "could be", perfecting the form which would serve as _the_ model to so many composers that followed him.

I think the reason the later concertos are so revered is that at some point Mozart seems to have gained complete mastery and command of composing these things, and masterpiece after masterpiece was flowing from his pen (he wrote #19 - #27 within seven years).

Each concerto is so expertly crafted and filled with endless ideas, containing passages of extraordinary beauty. Some of the most magical moments for me are the fleeting modulations from the major to minor which he produces so often.

#23: From around 20:45 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11TWlVER7ng#aid=P96ooIjlQIg

#25: From around 30:03 ...






And of course you have those seemingly ridiculously simple, yet gorgeous slow movements, the like of which is few and far betweeen.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

violadude said:


> I think they're the only minor key piano concertos...if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> So no need to make that confusing distinction.


I'm aware.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

brianvds said:


> No. 23 is perhaps the minorest of his major-key concertos, and not just because of the grief-laden slow movement. The first movement seems to me to be imbued with a certain wistfulness and even the irrepressible joy of the last movement seems to me almost like recollections of joy rather than joy in the present tense. All of this of course very subjectively.
> 
> Ah, yes, I am also very fond of no, 17. And then also no 9, a relatively early but remarkably mature one.


Absolutely. I have always found 23 to be very deep emotionally, maybe even more so than the minor concertos.
In my opinion, the first movement is certainly not a happy piece.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bittersweet is how I describe the first movement of Mozart's 23rd Piano Concerto in A, K488.

It is my favorite of the Mozart Piano Concertos.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Kieran said:


> I think there's an historical prejudice against #26, because according to the books, he knocked it out for some royal gala, and didn't even furnish the score with the left hand parts. Personally, I think it's great and I'm certain that Mr Girdlestone is in concurrence on the matter. It's reputation has grown more, but it was considered the redhead stepchild for a long time...


Yes. It's known as the Coronation Concerto.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Burroughs said:


> I particularly enjoy his minor concertos, they have a lot more depth to them however I still enjoy the major ones, especially Nos. 23 and 13


And here I always felt the 27th was one of the deepest keyboard concertos in existence. Unfortunately Mozart did not set it to a minor key with more diminished 7th chords to give it TRUE depth!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

trazom said:


> And here I always felt the 27th was one of the deepest keyboard concertos in existence. Unfortunately Mozart did not set it to a minor key with more diminished 7th chords to give it TRUE depth!


Yes I love that one maybe most of all. There's a wonderful recorded performance by Gilels - not the studio one (is it with Böhm?) but a love one where Gilels himself directs the orchestra, on Vista Vera.

What do people here think of Sv. Richter's Mozart concerto recordings?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Kieran said:


> I think there's an historical prejudice against #26, because according to the books, he knocked it out for some royal gala, and didn't even furnish the score with the left hand parts. Personally, I think it's great and I'm certain that Mr Girdlestone is in concurrence on the matter. It's reputation has grown more, but it was considered the redhead stepchild for a long time...


It's charming but not quite up to the blinding masterpieces around it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> Yes I love that one maybe most of all. There's a wonderful recorded performance by Gilels - not the studio one (is it with Böhm?) but a love one where Gilels himself directs the orchestra, on Vista Vera.
> 
> What do people here think of Sv. Richter's Mozart concerto recordings?


I have the Gilels with Bohm. He looks upon it as deeply resigned. Some beautiful playing.

I have two versions of Richter's 22nd. A bit brusque as he wasn't at his best in Mozart usually. And Britten's cadenzas are a lesson in anachronism!


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## GodNickSatan (Feb 28, 2013)

Why doesn't 18 get much love? One of his best for sure.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm with Violadude-- No. 17 is the best.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

It's a fantastic body of work but: I hold up 23 as one of the masterpieces of all of music, 21 and 27 are stunning, 25 seems like the big serious daddy, 18 and 26 might be underrated, the finale of 15(!) is cute as heck and, y'know, the minor key ones are OK too ;-)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I have the Gilels with Bohm. He looks upon it as deeply resigned. Some beautiful playing.
> 
> I have two versions of Richter's 22nd. A bit brusque as he wasn't at his best in Mozart usually. And Britten's cadenzas are a lesson in anachronism!


If you haven't heard it, see what you think of this performance of Mozart PC22 with Kondrashin, from Moscow in 1968. It has never been released commercially.

In my opinion Richter was inspired that night. Anyone who only knows him in this concerto from the EMI recording with Muti, you're in for a big surprise. Both he and his accompanists are inflamed, from the opening to the closing bars. The Andante is noble and virile, not one iota of mawkishness. Equally importantly, the opening movement is noble and vigorous. And maybe most importantly of all, the exuberance of the final movement hunt contrasts poignantly with the exquisite and humane minuet for winds and piano at its heart.

http://panovnik.blogspot.com/2010/12/sviatoslav-richter-mozart-piano.html

In my opinion, Boehm very much influenced the conception of the 27th in the recording with Gilels. The one on Vista Vera is quite different and IMO much more interesting.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Point of clarification: Concertos #20 and #24 are Mozarts's major minor key piano concertos.


More accurately, point of obfuscation. Remember your motto to keep it pithy


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> More accurately, point of obfuscation. Remember your motto to keep it pithy


My favorite is 23. Heard it first with Rubinstein and nobody's done it better ever since.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Last year I purchased the complete Mozart keyboard concertos (Jos van Immerseel, fortepiano, Anima Eterna) played on reconstructions of fortepianos that Mozart used with a reduced period band.

This way one has a better idea of the balances Mozart was seeking than the typical modern orchestra with concert grand performances many of us grew up with.

Still, I'm not parting with my Rubinstein performance of #23.


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

If I had to choose a favorite Mozart Piano Concerto it would be No.23 in A major. It's a beautiful work, and the pathos of the second movement is chill-inducing. The drama of the D minor is hard to beat though.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Never cared for the d minor. A lot of folks here including me agree on the 23rd in A Major. Mozart really reached the heights and depths in this great work.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's a list to consider.

1 - Piano Concerto #23 in A major, K. 488 (1786)
2 - Piano Concerto #24 in C minor, K. 491 (1786)
3 - Piano Concerto #20 in D minor, K. 466 (1785)
4 - Piano Concerto #19 in F major, K. 459 (1784)
5 - Piano Concerto #25 in C major, K. 503 (1786)
6 - Piano Concerto #22 in E-flat major, K. 482 (1785)
7 - Piano Concerto #9 in E-flat major, K. 271 (1777)
8 - Piano Concerto #21 in C major, K. 467 (1785)
9 - Piano Concerto #18 in B-flat major, K. 456 (1784)
10 - Piano Concerto #17 in G major, K. 453 (1784)


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm listening to #27 right now. 

Sometimes Mozart brings out the giddy sappy fanboy in me, reducing me to bland stereotypes and gushy wushy phrases that wouldn't be out of place in some mushy 19th century Romantic pamphlet on the ideal arts. This! #27, it's like there's something hidden inside it, and even deeper inside the slow set, that unravels and reveals itself differently every time. A husband should look at his wife this way. It makes me want to grab it and do things to it! :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Funny how we can be so different. I find #27 sentimental and avoid it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Funny how we can be so different. I find #27 sentimental and avoid it.


You're just choosing the wrong performances to listen to. Try Kocsis. Things like that, I find, are always a question if the performance rather than the music.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Funny how we can be so different. I find #27 sentimental and avoid it.


Mozart is never sentimental. He holds it all in, and when it gushers in those huge ejaculations of strings like it does in the slow set, it isn't weepy or cloying, it's so much more powerful than that...to me. :tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

We agree to disagree, fellas!!

I like most of the other piano concertos, though.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Funny how we can be so different. I find #27 sentimental and avoid it.


I can abjure sentimentalism in politics but never in music.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Funny how we can be so different. I find #27 sentimental and avoid it.


I knew a woman who liked Haydn but disliked both Mozart and Beethoven, whom she called "sentimental." I always thought that strange (weird, actually). I can _hear _what she was talking about; I just can't think of the difference that way. Yet I'm I guy who can go into dancing raptures over the operettas of Kalman, dab at my eyes when Galli-Curci sings _Old Folks at Home_, and still find irritating that brainless little tubercular seamstress who's tiny frozen hand is somehow deemed worthy of an aria.

Yes, we are _so_ different.


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## BrunoMillot (Feb 16, 2013)

I also have a strong preference in the minor keys Concertos like Burroughs .
For me the No.24 in C minor is the greatest of all.
Well maybe I am exaggerating haha.
But I really like this concerto. It has a great Opera like overture.
All the movements are a delight.
I also like the No.25. Specially the second and third movements


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I knew a woman who liked Haydn but disliked both Mozart and Beethoven, whom she called "sentimental." I always thought that strange (weird, actually). I can _hear _what she was talking about; I just can't think of the difference that way. Yet I'm I guy who can go into dancing raptures over the operettas of Kalman, dab at my eyes when Galli-Curci sings _Old Folks at Home_, and still find irritating that brainless little tubercular seamstress who's tiny frozen hand is somehow deemed worthy of an aria.
> 
> Yes, we are _so_ different.


I also prefer Haydn to both Mozart and Beethoven.

I can't imagine life without Haydn's music.

Smart lady.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I knew a woman who liked Haydn but disliked both Mozart and Beethoven, whom she called "sentimental." I always thought that strange (weird, actually). I can _hear _what she was talking about; I just can't think of the difference that way. Yet I'm I guy who can go into dancing raptures over the operettas of Kalman, dab at my eyes when Galli-Curci sings _Old Folks at Home_, and still find irritating that brainless little tubercular seamstress who's tiny frozen hand is somehow deemed worthy of an aria.
> 
> Yes, we are _so_ different.


---
But I can be fair and balanced too.

Not all sentimentalism is bad. Without composers like Mozart and Beethoven to point the way, there'd be no way for pop-aria sensations to happen, a vital component of American Idol.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I also prefer Haydn to both Mozart and Beethoven.
> 
> I can't imagine life without Haydn's music.
> 
> Smart lady.


The same unsentimental lady also told me that her primary desire in life was to make lots and lots of money. Evidently for her the sounds of Haydn blended better than those of Mozart and Beethoven with the clink and jingle of bullion. Maybe I should have told her what a wicked hard bargain L. van B. could drive with his publisher. Might have won him her avaricious little heart.

Of course we love Haydn with pure hearts.:angel:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> ---
> But I can be fair and balanced too.
> 
> Not all sentimentalism is bad. Without composers like Mozart and Beethoven to point the way, there'd be no way for pop-aria sensations to happen, a vital component of American Idol.


Do you suppose that's what they were working toward when untimely death stole them away?


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Do you suppose that's what they were working toward when untimely death stole them away?


No, I really believe the Promethean labors of those gods were directed at more lofty and elevated ends; like 4'33" or the _Concerto for Stick and Garbage Can_.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Untimely? In 1827, 57 was considered long life.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Don't you see? The Symphony #10, "American Idol," was already in the can. Not sure _which_ can, though...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

BrunoMillot said:


> I also have a strong preference in the minor keys Concertos like Burroughs .
> For me the No.24 in C minor is the greatest of all.
> Well maybe I am exaggerating haha.
> But I really like this concerto. It has a great Opera like overture.
> ...


I've always liked the variations in 24 but sometimes I think that the first movement is a bit repetative with too much passagework.

By the way, there's a recorded performance of it which is particularly special, by Bruno Moderna with Kempff.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Kieran said:


> Mozart is never sentimental. He holds it all in, and when it gushers in those huge ejaculations of strings like it does in the slow set, it isn't weepy or cloying, it's so much more powerful than that...to me. :tiphat:


A very _stimulating _post. Gotta go now!!


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## Roi N (Oct 22, 2013)

This grand set of 21 piano concerti is unequaled, filled with great masterpieces through and through. I'm going to mention some great concerti with have gotten little regard in this forum.
Mozart's first original piano concerto is No. 5 (1-4 are only arrangements) and it is one of his finer. The first movement is a great example of Mozart's craftmanship, and the last movement is astounding, with many contrapunctal themes.
The 14th piano concerto in E-Flat is probably his most peculiar, yet one of the most interesting. The unstability of the key in the first movement (displayed greatly by the opening frase, which is basically a cadence in B-Flat) is followed by an even weirder finale, which isn't fast at all and, like the finale of the 5th, contrapunctal.
The 18th piano concerto is an absolute gem, mostly thanks to its remarkable opening movement - the themes are elegant and flowing, the relationship between the piano and the orchestra is flawless and the orchestration is more refined than many other concerti.
And the absolute best concerto - which hasn't been discussed here almost at all - is the 22nd. The main theme consists of a powerful statement followed by a beautiful lyrical answer, and is umatched amongst his other concerti. This first movement has many fine aspects, including a great development and great rhythm treatment. And the finale is extraordinary. Just hear it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The 22nd in E flat Major displays Mozart's terrific wind-writing ability more than any other of his piano concertos.
It is a large scale, heroic work.


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