# Startling Discovery About Beethoven Symphonies!



## Terrapin (Apr 15, 2011)

August 13, 2011 (AP). Musicologists reviewing original manuscripts in the archives of the Vienna Musique Conservatoire have made a startling discovery about the origins of some of the symphonies of Beethoven. Wolfgang van Haydoven, who is the leader of the team that made the discovery, said "We now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that what the world knows as the first two symphonies of Beethoven are actually the last two symphonies of Haydn. We have also ascertained that what we thought were Beethoven's 4th and 8th symphonies are actually the last two of Mozart."

========

Let's summarize the mind-boggling findings, as reported by Herr Haydoven:

Haydn - Wrote Symphony No. 105 and 106 (previously known as Beethoven No. 1 and 2)
Mozart - Wrote Symphony No. 42 and 43 (previously Beethoven's No. 4 and 8)
Beethoven - Wrote only five symphonies (No. 3, 5, 6, 7, and 9)

In light of this incredible news, does the symphonic reputation of each composer go up slightly?


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Umm, can we have some citation?


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

It might if the name of the team's leader weren't so funny.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Every famous composer was actually Bach putting on different costumes.


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

All the famous composers just had the Ring of power and the Tarnhelm. He's still alive but nobody knows where he is.

Also...how is it that when I saw this thread, it had three replies and no views? Something's goin' on, man...


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Yeah, the Haydoven is a giveaway. :lol:

I might almost believe it as the 4th and 8th are my least favorite Beethoven symphonies and Haydn did begin to sound a lot like Beethoven in his later works (or vice versa), but there are not enough annoying "Mozartisms" in any of Beethoven's works to arouse my gullibility.


----------



## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

This is obviously a joke, there is no other reference to this anywhere on the internet.


----------



## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

Wrong time of the year for this kind of thread, I reckon ... unless your clock is running a few months slow!


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Terrapin said:


> August 13, 2011 (AP). Musicologists reviewing original manuscripts in the archives of the Vienna Musique Conservatoire have made a startling discovery about the origins of some of the symphonies of Beethoven. Wolfgang van Haydoven, who is the leader of the team that made the discovery, said "We now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that what the world knows as the first two symphonies of Beethoven are actually the last two symphonies of Haydn. We have also ascertained that what we thought were Beethoven's 4th and 8th symphonies are actually the last two of Mozart."
> 
> ========
> 
> ...


You forgot to quote the second half of that article. They have proven that it was actually Bach who wrote the _Missa Solemnis_ and Handel who actually wrote _Fidelio_. None of these two works were by Beethoven at all.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

I wish I could say that I found the OP funny. More like pathetic.


----------



## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

I believe what you say Terrapin because I have faith...

NOT!


----------



## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

I thought the name "Wolfgang van Haydoven" was suspicious. He's actually Mozart and Haydn in disguise, trying to claim credit for Beethoven's work!


----------



## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Actually, Beethoven's 1st symphony is probably my favorite Haydn symphony.


----------



## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Cool name, dude...but something (everything) tells me this is just not right


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

That might explain why his 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th symphonies sound like soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


----------



## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Argus said:


> That might explain why his 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th symphonies sound like soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


Colorful...


----------



## Terrapin (Apr 15, 2011)

I wasn't trying to fool anybody. I thought it would be obvious that this was a fake story. My main point was to ask, if the four lesser symphonies of Beethoven were attributed to Haydn and Mozart, would the reputation of each composer go up slightly?


----------



## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Mozart's reputation would go down. Haydn's would probably stay the same. Beethoven's might go up a bit, although the first movement of the Eighth is one of his best symphonic movements.

:tiphat:


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Terrapin said:


> I wasn't trying to fool anybody. I thought it would be obvious that this was a fake story. My main point was to ask, if the four lesser symphonies of Beethoven were attributed to Haydn and Mozart, would the reputation of each composer go up slightly?


Well, that all depends on how much you like soggy **** cheek sounding music.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

Argus said:


> Well, that all depends on how much you like soggy **** cheek sounding music.


 Suppose you can't get enough of it. Then what? Come on now, answer the man and stop messing about.


----------



## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Terrapin said:


> I wasn't trying to fool anybody. I thought it would be obvious that this was a fake story. My main point was to ask, if the four lesser symphonies of Beethoven were attributed to Haydn and Mozart, would the reputation of each composer go up slightly?


Beethoven would go up without the 2, 4 and 8. 
Haydn equal, with one good and one bad extra. 
Mozart would be the loser, I think.


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Artemis said:


> Suppose you can't get enough of it. Then what? Come on now, answer the man and stop messing about.


In that case, Beethoven would go down in reputation and be classed as a cheekless wonder, whilst Mozart and Haydn's reputation would remain at the same God-like level because they've already produced more than enough soggy **** cheek sounding music to cement their positions for eternity.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

Argus said:


> In that case, Beethoven would go down in reputation and be classed as a cheekless wonder, whilst Mozart and Haydn's reputation would remain at the same God-like level because they've already produced more than enough soggy **** cheek sounding music to cement their positions for eternity.


That's dead right. I knew you knew the correct answer.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I like Haydn well enough, but damn, if he had written Beethoven's 2nd, my opinion of him would skyrocket.


----------



## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Since Beethoven's 1st and 2nd are utterly unlike anything Haydn and Mozart ever wrote, this 'discovery' would cast Haydn/Mozart as visionaries and raise their reputations even more. I also don't understand why everyone keeps bashing these four symphonies...


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

FRAUD!

Wow, it's amazing how far Beethoven fans are willing to go to disprove that Beethoven could possibly, yes _possibly _have written something with a lack of merit or genius than what is usual for him. :devil:


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I like the symphonies that are discredited in this thread as being by Beethoven, I think they are great BEETHOVEN symphonies of a different sort. They are less romantic sure, but they are still great symphonies.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> I also don't understand why everyone keeps bashing these four symphonies...


Well, it's hard to be admired for being controversial when you say you like something. It's easy when you can find some really crude way to say you don't.


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

You can always tell the people who like the sound of soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Predictable...


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Something about Black Sabbath here.

Atonality debate. Something about 4'33''. Something about objectivity.

Hanging from rafters.


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Vesteralen said:


> Predictable...


I suppose they are but SAC music aficionados wouldn't want Mozart or Haydn to stray too far from their SAC style.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

@ Regressivetransphobe

Has the meta thread unleashed itself on the wider TC?


----------



## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Temporarily (maybe) Closed for Repairs


----------

