# Trente Lignes



## The nose (Jan 14, 2014)

Here's a piece i wrote:
View attachment Trente lignes.mp3

Comments and critics are welcome!


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## differencetone (Dec 13, 2014)

It sounds like it was composed by a computer. I am not getting any emotion from this. Sounds random. It doesn't do anything for me.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The choices you have made sound near to completely arbitrary, leaving the listener with 'nothing to follow.' It also sounds as if you have a limited harmonic vocabulary and are trying here and there to interject some 'modernity' into it.

Using what you've got instead of what you have yet not developed is always a better choice 

Write using that more limited harmonic vocabulary you presently have, slowly developing and expanding that, and my guess is whatever is made will sound much better.

Huge P.s. _whenever you are using a desktop system for writing, on any planned on playback, play or draw that in without using any of the quantize features._ Quantizing is rhythmic death and makes the best of samples (yours are not those; of course -- you work with what you've got and can afford sound flat-line dead and mechanical.

That Quantize function is best used on a non-performing _copy_ of the piece when you need to make / extract an accurate score; it is all the nails in the coffin at once for any kind of decent facsimile performance.

Best regards.


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## The nose (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks for both the comments. I'll work on that.


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## differencetone (Dec 13, 2014)

If the notes are not played on a midi keyboard, all the velocity values will be equal. This is what makes it sound robotic more than quantizing. With careful attention the the velocity value of every note (which takes a lot of time), a quantized piece will sound natural. Another problem I hear is the bad quality of the sounds you are using. This will influence how people judge your music. Native Instruments offers a free software player and free instruments library which will greatly improve your sound. Should work with most composition software that allows third party VSTi instruments.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/free-download/


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

differencetone said:


> If the notes are not played on a midi keyboard, all the velocity values will be equal. This is what makes it sound robotic more than quantizing. With careful attention the the velocity value of every note (which takes a lot of time), a quantized piece will sound natural. Another problem I hear is the bad quality of the sounds you are using. This will influence how people judge your music. Native Instruments offers a free software player and free instruments library which will greatly improve your sound. Should work with most composition software that allows third party VSTi instruments.
> 
> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/free-download/


Giving a dynamic shape to the music via velocity values is desirable, but if the piece is still in atomic-clock quantized precision, it may 'look' better, but it is rather like rouge on the face of the corpse in the coffin, i.e. it is still stiff as a board and couldn't get any deader.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Using a keyboard to input notes is of little relevance to the phrasing or quantisation of notes. Furthermore, both quantisation and static velocity can be used to great effect if handled with care. Lastly, the quality of the samples is of little relevance, the tools are secondary to the skill of the composer, a good composer can use a computer to make fine music with or without the Vienna Symphonic Library at their beck and call.

I know that the OP likely intends this to be a human performed piece, and I understand the circumstantial validity of the points made in this thread so far, but I do tire ever so quickly of the incessant blanket bashing of the unique tools and techniques available to the computer based composer.


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## differencetone (Dec 13, 2014)

Inputting with a keyboard is the quick way to make both the velocity and the timing human because it is human. A static velocity isn't human and sounds bad to me. I actually like quantizing although it isn't humanly possibly to play this perfectly. Even velocity is much worse sounding to me than hard quantizing.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

differencetone said:


> Static velocity is an effect but it is not human. Play music in with a keyboard and it will never be even velocity. That is robotic. If that is the effect you want, fine but it is not human sounding. Using a keyboard without quantizing is the human sound both for velocity and timing. You can not get this exact timing by inputting notes any other way. It can and I would argue should be improved with editing. I am not against quantizing. I don't like it when every note or a long string of notes are the exact same velocity.


Of course it doesn't sound human, it's a computer, its output is totally mechanical no matter the source of input or how it is processed. Furthermore, human playing "improved with editing" is essentially not human playing.

But I won't say any more, I'd feel bad if this thread lost sight of its original purpose.


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## differencetone (Dec 13, 2014)

Human playing varies from human to human and midi keyboards are generally not the ideal instrument for feel compared to a physical acoustic instrument. That is why I think it can be more human with editing.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Using a keyboard to input notes is of little relevance to the phrasing or quantisation of notes.


False and False:

dependent upon if the composer plays piano to even a middle intermediate level, _and_ is using a touch sensitive keyboard, what they play will reflexively have dynamic contouring.

They will also quite reflexively give a micro-slight agogic rhythmic placement to further subtly shape that phrase or line. Here, an application of full quantize on that recorded track would completely destroy that aspect of the played in performance.

Keyboard with no touch sensitivity, i.e. on / off? Makes no difference if you play well or not.



Crudblud said:


> Furthermore, both quantisation and static velocity can be used to great effect if handled with care.


 Sure, in a piece where the composer is up to and thinking of that as part of the piece to begin with, certainly not in the little piece of the OP, with its very different traditional sensibility and intent.



Crudblud said:


> Lastly, the quality of the samples is of little relevance, the tools are secondary to the skill of the composer, a good composer can use a computer to make fine music with or without the Vienna Symphonic Library at their beck and call.


That truth is double edged, to put it mildly: many, (I think a majority) have some dream or real ambition that they are writing for actual players using actual instruments. The further the virtual is away from the actual, the more will be found to not at all well-inform the composer of 'what will actually happen' when that score is performed on the actual instruments. Even then, a midi arrangement and playback with the very best virtual instruments does not at all inform the user of the physical reality of the acoustics. _If_ you are using midi directly to create with the sounds available, and have intent for that to be the final product, then and only then would your statement be completely true and valid.

Because of the above, and your recognition that the piece in the OP has nothing to do with intent for a purely midi performance,
_____"I know that the OP likely intends this to be a human performed piece, and I understand the circumstantial validity of the points made in this thread so far, but I do tire ever so quickly of the incessant blanket bashing of the unique tools and techniques available to the computer based composer." 
is comment in need of another context than is pertinent here, i.e. not every piece posted in a midi performance needs this reminder, any more than every opinion needs to be put forth as "This is just an opinion." Imho, your perspective as a composer who writes near exclusively for midi as the performing medium impels the making of a comment which is an unnecessary projection...

i.e. "No Midi functions have been bashed or harmed in any of the comments in this thread


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