# Most Overrated Band Knockout Game



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Last one standing is the most overrated 

You can add 2 to the ones you hate and reduce by 4 total the ones you want to knock to show your love, in any way you want to distribute.

You can vote up to twice in a day.

Each band starts with 10 

The Beatles - 9 (-1)
The Rolling Stones - 10
The Who - 10
The Doors - 11 (+1)
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 9 (-1)
U2 - 10
Led Zeppelin - 9 (-1)
The Grateful Dead - 10
Nirvana - 11 (+1)
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 9 (-1)
The Velvet Underground - 10
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

We need a metric--say, one that incorporates both sales figures and critical blather over the decades--in order to fully rationalize this question (and answers). To my mind, the most overrated bands/artists are the critics' darlings, over which they swoon and tremble yet whose sales histories indicate that they left vast populations either unmoved or actually hostile.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> We need a metric--say, one that incorporates both sales figures and critical blather over the decades--in order to fully rationalize this question (and answers). To my mind, the most overrated bands/artists are the critics' darlings, over which they swoon and tremble yet whose sales histories indicate that they left vast populations either unmoved or actually hostile.


while Gangnam style or Despacito are the greatest masterpieces?
Because if you think that popularity is a good way to judge artistic value, those are the ultimate pop songs.
Actually for their popularity those songs are much better than anything written by Stravinsky.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

U2, and Nirvana top my list.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I would say the Cars, the Clash, the Police, Jefferson Airplane once they went Starship, Giles after they went commercial, ZZTop after they went commercial are overrated, but to stick with the original list there are about 5 bands I am totally unfamiliar with. Nonetheless, I vote:

The Beatles - 8 (-1) 
The Rolling Stones - 10
The Who - 10
The Doors - 11 
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 11 (+2) 
U2 - 10
Led Zeppelin - 9 
The Grateful Dead - 7 (-3)
Nirvana - 11 
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 9 
The Velvet Underground - 10
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

norman bates said:


> while Gangnam style or Despacito are the greatest masterpieces?
> Because if you think that popularity is a good way to judge artistic value, those are the ultimate pop songs.
> Actually for their popularity those songs are much better than anything written by Stravinsky.


But surely you have neglected the critical blather factor--there are not column-feet of gushing prose extolling the depth, the originality, the brilliance of the word-play, the sheer _genius_ of the aforementioned efforts. No, we are not talking of that sort of instantly-here, instantly-gone froth but rather those artists and bands, mostly working in what is generally called Rock as distinguished from Pop, that Rock critics have swooned over for decades, yet their sales figures compared to, say, Led Zeppelin or Bruce, are minuscule. A good working definition of overrated.

A reminder to us all: Rock 'n' Roll, or Rock, began as a mass, youth, music, appealing and intended to appeal, to a mass audience. Popularity must be an essential component of any measure of the success, worth, value, usage of this mass art. It will certainly factor in controlling what is preserved in the decades to come.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

After Fritz K.

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 10
The Who - 8 (-2)
The Doors - 11 
Radiohead - 11 (+1)
The Kinks - 9 (-2) 
U2 - 11 (+1)
Led Zeppelin - 9 
The Grateful Dead - 7 
Nirvana - 11 
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 9 
The Velvet Underground - 10
Sonic Youth - 10


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> But surely you have neglected the critical blather factor--there are not column-feet of gushing prose extolling the depth, the originality, the brilliance of the word-play, the sheer _genius_ of the aforementioned efforts.


and? I don't get what's your point onestly.



Strange Magic said:


> B
> No, we are not talking of that sort of instantly-here, instantly-gone froth but rather those artists and bands, mostly working in what is generally called Rock as distinguished from Pop, that Rock critics have swooned over for decades, yet their sales figures compared to, say, Led Zeppelin or Bruce, are minuscule. A good working definition of overrated.


I don't know who you are referring to, since there are tons of different bands and I don't want certainly to generalize like that.
Many critics have swooned for many mainstream artists too, like Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Stevie Wonder. Critics have no one head, but like you and me have all their own heads.



Strange Magic said:


> A reminder to us all: Rock 'n' Roll, or Rock, began as a mass, youth, music, appealing and intended to appeal, to a mass audience.


or in other terms, it started just as a market product, when "youth" become a category.



Strange Magic said:


> Popularity must be an essential component of any measure of the success, worth, value, usage of this mass art. It will certainly factor in controlling what is preserved in the decades to come.


If it was like that Justin Bieber is way better than Tom Petty. Nicki Minaj is better than Joni Mitchell. Gangnam style is better than anything composed by Bach. Despacito is better than anything composed by Duke Ellington.

And by the way, it seems that you have never heard terms like payola. Many things are popular just because of mass exposition (payola was a way to achieve that).
Like it seems that you don't consider the fact that today (and actually during all the history of popular music) a singer that is good looking has much more possibilities to become famous. 
The quality of the music is often the least important factor to determine the popularity of a band or a artist. Exactly like in the cinema a lot of terrible blockbusters have earned much more than great movies.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^I can see clearly that you are not getting the point. The metric would divide a column-inch critical blather figure by a sales figure. This would yield a number. A large blather figure divided by a tiny sales figure yields a huge final "overrated" figure. I can't make it simpler. BTW I'm not entirely serious about this, but the main thrust is clear enough. 

Two examples: Led Zep--big blather, big sales=not overrated. Tiny Lights--tiny blather, tiny sales=not overrated. Unnamed by me cult artist/band--big blather, small sales=overrated. Supply your own names in this category.


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

IMO, there's an obvious omission from your list: Cold Play.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

After Elgars Ghost

The Beatles - 7(-1)
The Rolling Stones - 9 (-1)
The Who - 8 
The Doors - 11 
Radiohead - 11 
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 (+1)
Led Zeppelin - 8 (-1)
The Grateful Dead - 7 
Nirvana - 12 (+1)
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8 (-1)
The Velvet Underground - 10
Sonic Youth - 10

I'll add another condition that any band that gets 20 points first is the most overrated automatically


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

The Beatles - 9 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 (-4)
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 (+1)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 12
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8
The Velvet Underground - 10
Sonic Youth - 10


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> ^^^I can see clearly that you are not getting the point. The metric would divide a column-inch critical blather figure by a sales figure. This would yield a number. A large blather figure divided by a tiny sales figure yields a huge final "overrated" figure. I can't make it simpler. BTW I'm not entirely serious about this, but the main thrust is clear enough.
> 
> Two examples: Led Zep--big blather, big sales=not overrated. Tiny Lights--tiny blather, tiny sales=not overrated. Unnamed by me cult artist/band--big blather, small sales=overrated. Supply your own names in this category.


so you think that if Led Zeppelin weren't interested at all in success, or didn't have commercial exposition, or they were four fat ugly bald guys they would have had the same sales numbers? What if they were exactly the same band, but playing in Russia or in Italy. Do you seriously think that they would have been as successful as they were?

What about Herbie Nichols? One of the greatest jazz composers ever. But unlike his friend Thelonious Monk he died basically unknown. His music was extremely original and very complex but without being pretentious at all and very poetic. He was also a virtuoso of the piano.
So why he didn't have success? There's not a certain answer. Maybe it's the fact that (as he himself said), he wasn't a junkie like Charlie Parker, a "clown" like Dizzie Gillespie or a strange character like Monk or Sun ra, he was just a straight guy who played great music. Maybe his music was too subtle and with a melodic sense very different from the normal bebop of the time. Maybe it's because as some of his friends musicians said, he wasn't great at selling himself. So he should be considered overrated just because he didn' had luck, or someone using the trick of the payola for him?

Alec Wilder, one of the greatest american songwriters wrote the most important book on the great american songbook, with chapters dedicated to all the most important songwriters: Gerswhin, Richard Rodgers, Cole Porter, Harold Harlen, Hoagy Carmichael, Vernon Duke, Hugh Martin, Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern etc. He didn't even mention himself. He simply hated to put himself on a pedestal. He wasn't interested in success. So those interested in the G.A.S will read his book and they will not find any mention of his own work.

I could make a lot of other examples like this, Robert Pete Williams, Andrew Hill, Joe Diorio, Luciano Cilio, Nick Drake, Valzinho, Garoto, Booker Little, Maurice Ohana, Giacinto Scelsi, Willard Robison, Allan Holdsworth etc. All musicians with little success and revered by critics.
Sometimes a talented artist is popular, because he's in the right place (and country) at the right moment, because of the look, because he strives for success. Because of payola.
Sometimes an equally or even more talented artist is unknown because there are all those reasons. Maybe he's ugly, maybe he don't care, maybe because his music is not immediate and catchy.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

The Beatles - 9 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 (-4)
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 (+1)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 14 (+2)
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8
The Velvet Underground - 6 (-4)
Sonic Youth - 10


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

The Beatles - 9 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 (-4)
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 (+1)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 (+2)
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8
The Velvet Underground - 2 (-4)
Sonic Youth - 10


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The Who were a band packed with some of the finest musicians in rock, what they didn't have (in my opinion) was a lot of good songs, I like maybe 3 of their songs. 

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 6 (+2)
The Doors - 7 (-4)
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8
The Velvet Underground - 2 
Sonic Youth - 10

2nd vote for today:

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 8 (+2)
The Doors - 5 (-2)
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 
Led Zeppelin - 6 (-2)
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 8
The Velvet Underground - 2 
Sonic Youth - 10


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## MJongo (Aug 6, 2011)

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 8
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12 (+1)
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 
Led Zeppelin - 6
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 8 (-2)
The Beach Boys - 9 (+1)
Sonic Youth - 10

Safe:
The Velvet Underground - 0 (-2)


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Norman, did I not make it clear from my examples, and was it not clear from the OP, that we are discussing Rock--its artists and bands? Not discussing Jazz, not discussing the American Song Book, or Broadway shows (though for several of these genres the same principle might apply to one extent or another). No, we are talking about Rock and Roll and what bands or artists are overrated. I proposed a metric, a definition of what constitutes being overrated as applied to a mass, youth-oriented (in its origins) art form where the concept of popular appeal surely should have some relevance. Your response is to drown my proposal--an absurdly simple one--in a sea of irrelevance having nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Maybe you should start a new thread.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 14 (+2)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 10
The Beach Boys - 10 (+2)
The Velvet Underground - 0 (-2)
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Daniel Atkinson (Dec 31, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Last one standing is the most overrated
> 
> You can add 2 to the ones you hate and reduce by 4 total the ones you want to knock to show your love, in any way you want to distribute.
> 
> ...


Knock them all out except for the Doors and Sonic Youth, then start again

Daniel


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 12 (-2)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 8 (-2)
The Beach Boys - 12 (+2)
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Second vote:

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 4 
The Doors - 11
Radiohead - 11
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 10 (-2)
Led Zeppelin - 10 (+2)
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 8 (-2)
The Beach Boys - 12
Sonic Youth - 10


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Post #19 was an illegal vote and the numbers got screwed up.

Corrected board:

The Beatles - 9 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 8
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12 
The Kinks - 9
U2 - 8
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 7
Nirvana - 16 
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11 
Sonic Youth - 10


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> Norman, did I not make it clear from my examples, and was it not clear from the OP, that we are discussing Rock--its artists and bands? Not discussing Jazz, not discussing the American Song Book, or Broadway shows (though for several of these genres the same principle might apply to one extent or another).


the difference of genre does not make any difference since we are discussing value and popularity. 


Strange Magic said:


> No, we are talking about Rock and Roll and what bands or artists are overrated. I proposed a metric, a definition of what constitutes being overrated as applied to a mass, youth-oriented (in its origins) art form where the concept of popular appeal surely should have some relevance. Your response is to drown my proposal--an absurdly simple one--in a sea of irrelevance having nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Maybe you should start a new thread.


Well, I've replied to what to me is a very naive idea, this

"We need a metric--say, one that incorporates both sales figures and critical blather over the decades--in order to fully rationalize this question (and answers). "

that to me is totally irrational. I wonder how my answer could be less relevant since it refers to the exact same object you're talking about.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> We need a metric--say, one that incorporates both sales figures and critical blather over the decades--in order to fully rationalize this question (and answers). To my mind, the most overrated bands/artists are the critics' darlings, over which they swoon and tremble yet whose sales histories indicate that they left vast populations either unmoved or actually hostile.


Yes, that's what he said: "To my mind, the most overrated bands/artists [and the OP lists Rock bands and artists] are the critics' darlings, over which they swoon and tremble yet whose sales histories indicate that they left vast populations either unmoved or actually hostile." I even posted some examples. I do not think this is hard to grasp. You may differ.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Beatles - 8 (-1)
The Rolling Stones - 9
The Who - 8
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 11 (+2)
U2 - 8
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 4 (-3)
Nirvana - 16
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

After Fritz K.

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 9
The Who - 6 (-2)
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 (-2) 
U2 - 10 (+2)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 16
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 9
The Who - 2 (-4)
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 (+2)
Led Zeppelin - 8
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 16
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 11 (+2)
The Who - 2 
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 
Led Zeppelin - 4 (-4)
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 16
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10 

2nd vote today:

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 13 (+2)
The Who - 2 
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 
Led Zeppelin - 0 (-4)
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 16
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10

Led Zep is out.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

The Beatles - 8 
The Rolling Stones - 9 (-4)
The Who - 2 
The Doors - 5
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 18 (+2)
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

The Beatles - 10 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 2 
The Doors - 1 (-4)
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 18 
Pink Floyd - 4
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10

U2 is probably my least favorite of these (though they have a few good/very good albums, Joshua Tree being their best) but, imo, The Beatles are certainly the most overrated (even though Sgt Pepper and Abbey Rd are excellent and the White Album and MMT are pretty good)


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

2nd vote today...

The Beatles - 12 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 2 
The Doors - 0 (-1)
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 9 
U2 - 12 
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 18 
Pink Floyd - 1 (-3)
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

The Beatles - 12 
The Rolling Stones - 9 
The Who - 0 (-2)
The Doors - 0 
Radiohead - 12
The Kinks - 8 (-1)
U2 - 14 (+2)
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 18 
Pink Floyd - 0 (-1)
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

2nd vote

The Beatles - 13 (+1)
The Rolling Stones - 10 (+1)
Radiohead - 10 (-2)
The Kinks - 8 
U2 - 16 (+2)
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 18 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

The Beatles - 13
The Rolling Stones - 10
Radiohead - 10 
The Kinks - 8 
U2 - 16 
The Grateful Dead - 4 
Nirvana - 20 (+2) most overrated 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Beatles - 13
The Rolling Stones - 10
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 10 (+2)
U2 - 16
*The Grateful Dead - 0 (-4) Not overrated.*
Nirvana - 20 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 10


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ don't care that much for the rest now the Dead are gone, except maybe the Kinks accasionally


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think phil was trying to end the game in post 35 anyway, good enough for me. Although I don't think Nirvana is the most over rated band. That award in my opinion should probably go to Nickelback or Coldplay or something along those lines.


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

*1st Vote:*

The Beatles - 15 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 10
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 10 
U2 - 16
Nirvana - 20 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 6 (-4)

*2nd Vote:*

The Beatles - 17 (+2)
The Rolling Stones - 10
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 10 
U2 - 16
Nirvana - 20 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 2 (-4)


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Oh ... If we're still voting ^^^

If not, no big deal. I can roll with Nirvana getting "top honors" if that's the end result.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

tdc said:


> I think phil was trying to end the game in post 35 anyway, good enough for me. Although I don't think Nirvana is the most over rated band. That award in my opinion should probably go to Nickelback or Coldplay or something along those lines.


Coldplay would win hands down for me in the overrated stakes- don't like bands that rip off others music


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

tdc said:


> I think phil was trying to end the game in post 35 anyway, good enough for me. Although I don't think Nirvana is the most over rated band. That award in my opinion should probably go to Nickelback or Coldplay or something along those lines.


Nickelback and Coldplay make Nirvana and U2 sound like the greatest rock bands.


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Nickelback and Coldplay make Nirvana and U2 sound like the greatest rock bands.


I can't argue with that!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Beatles - 17 
The Rolling Stones - 6 (-4)
Radiohead - 10
The Kinks - 12 (+2)
U2 - 16
Nirvana - 20 
The Beach Boys - 11
Sonic Youth - 2 

Not that I am a Stones fan, but they probably do qualify as the greatest rock band ever. Nothing overrated there. They have a lot of great music but I don't like their attitude (which is obnoxiously exemplified in their logo).


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> *Not that I am a Stones fan, but they probably do qualify as the greatest rock band ever*. Nothing overrated there. They have a lot of great music but I don't like their attitude (which is obnoxiously exemplified in their logo).


On what grounds? I like a good number of their songs, but they were not the first do anything in rock music (except maybe become more overtly sexual, but I don't think that merits them as the greatest rock band). There is nothing about their music that is particularly innovative or groundbreaking, nor even that advanced from a songwriting perspective, or from a musicianship perspective. Their songwriting was less advanced relative to bands like The Beatles and The Beach Boys. There is nothing innovative in terms of the production on any of their albums relative to bands like Zeppelin, The Beatles, Floyd, Velvet Underground, Zappa etc. They are not as accomplished of musicians as Zeppelin or Hendrix or The Who or many other bands.

It's like the media for a little while called them the greatest rock band and people just decided to go along with the hype because for a while they were really popular. (Or was it mostly just the band themselves that said they were the greatest?).

For the reasons stated I think they are one of the most (if not the most) over rated band on that list easily, even though I think they have some very good music.

*Edit -* They also have a higher percentage of 'filler' tunes on their albums compared to the other bands typically considered in the top 5.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ whatabout Gimmie Shelter, sympathy for the devil etc, they had some good some and I don;t see Led Zep as a great example of great rock songwriting, yeah great band but even better rip off artists- not too many original thoughts there........


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ whatabout Gimmie Shelter, sympathy for the devil etc, they had some good some and I don;t see Led Zep as a great example of great rock songwriting, yeah great band but even better rip off artists- not too many original thoughts there........


The Stones ripped off just as much as Zeppelin, all of the best artists rip stuff off. If one can 'rip stuff off' and then make it sound better as Zeppelin did, I'm all for ripping off stuff. Zeppelin also had a more distinctive original sound as a band than The Stones.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

If you want original sound go for VU but even then they had there influences as all bands do, including Led Zep but with them its just that there rip offs where so blatant


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Bo Diddley himself is way better than the Stones in my opinion. He’s the greatest rock band of all time.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

If anyone wants to start it, I think we have a new knockout thread idea: *Greatest Rock Band of All Time!*


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Thats easy- The Mothers of Invention


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Thats easy- The Mothers of Invention


They also are out for the most innovative band name award.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> They also are out for the most innovative band name award.


Well you do know what they wanted the name to be: The Mother F-----s


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Well you do know what they wanted the name to be: The Mother F-----s


The Fugs came close. Here are the lyrics to their _Wide Wide River_, and they're probably still eating the flapjacks of sorrow!

https://www.elyrics.net/read/f/fugs-lyrics/wide-wide-river-lyrics.html

That's supposed to be "River of Sin" of course, but it just didn't come out that way.

Well, you can hear it too:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Well you do know what they wanted the name to be: The Mother F-----s


I should'a figured!


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I've recently come to appreciate the Stones more. The lyrics of Sympathy for the Devil shows some brains.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

My favorite album cover


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> If you want original sound go for VU but even then they had there influences as all bands do, including Led Zep but with them its just that there rip offs where so blatant


Yes but listen to the difference in the sound of the music in those clips...the majority of those are not blatant rip offs. Plant ripped off a lot of lines from the blues masters on the first album and a half after that he began to really develop his own style and created original lyrics. Most of the examples in those clips are no different from what most bands do, the Communication Breakdown and Moby Dick examples they gave sound absolutely nothing like the songs they put next to them, are they suggesting they ripped off lyrics in Moby Dick? The track is an instrumental! The Stairway to Heaven example is not plagiarized at all this one was thrown out of court, so now Zeppelin is not allowed to even be influenced by other bands?

At any rate the majority of Zeppelin's best songs such as Battle of Evermore, Stairway to Heaven, Kashmir, Ten Years Gone, The Rain Song, Achilles Last Stand etc etc are original songs and in my opinion more advanced in the songwriting department than anything The Stones have put out - lyrically and musically.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Agreed except staireay to Heaven as Led Zep toured with spirit and if you listen to the two songs you will see they got the theme for Stairway from them. the courts its just a case of who has the better lawyers..


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Agreed except staireay to Heaven as Led Zep toured with spirit and if you listen to the two songs you will see *they got the theme for Stairway from them.* the courts its just a case of who has the better lawyers..


I agree that Page probably heard that song and was inspired to take the feel from the opening and expand on it, but the themes are similar - not identical and the song Stairway to Heaven expands into so much more than the opening theme, none of which sounds like the Spirit song.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

tdc said:


> I agree that Page probably heard that song and was inspired to take the feel from the opening and expand on it, but the themes are similar - not identical and the song Stairway to Heaven expands into so much more than the opening theme, none of which sounds like the Spirit song.


huh. wasn't it Iron Butterfly?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> huh. wasn't it Iron Butterfly?


Haven't heard that one, is there another rip off?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Haven't heard that one, is there another rip off?


I think I just remembered wrongly.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Maybe it was this one lol


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Maybe it was this one lol


That's an interesting piece. He really rocked out on that one.


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