# A Metal Head Classical Fan? Am I a Contradiction?



## Ialsop (Jan 24, 2016)

I am no fan of classical rock. I am a fan of Classical AND Rock. 

My fellow metal heads stare at me blankly when I share with them my love of Classical music in all it's grand beauty. 

On the other hand, some of my friends who share my love of a good Shostakovich piece are in disbelief when I tell them that I love good heavy metal, in all it's fiery passion. 

Of course, there is fiery passion in some Classical, and there is also beauty in some Metal. 

Both heavy metal and Classical have sort of sub-cultures. I am DEFINITELY closer to the stereotypical Classical fan than the stereotypical metal fan. 

Nobody seems to understand how I can enjoy both genres-and really, neither do I. 
What do you think? Is it contradiction, or are the genres reconcilable?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

It is not that rare. Though that hasn't happened very much lately, there has been a lot of metalheads in these forums trying to argue that metal and classical are very much related. There was even a metal subforum (!) for a very short while many years ago.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

You are not alone! I believe classical and metal have similarities, but hard to say. Some metalheads can see it in Shostakovich. Judas Priest f.ex. have some very classical melodies. Try "The Violation" by Fleshgod Apocalypse, they turned around Mozarts 40th, and went bananas...


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## Ialsop (Jan 24, 2016)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> You are not alone! I believe classical and metal have similarities, but hard to say. Some metalheads can see it in Shostakovich. Judas Priest f.ex. have some very classical melodies. Try "The Violation" by Fleshgod Apocalypse, they turned around Mozarts 40th, and went bananas...


WOW! I checked out "The Violation". A bit chaotic, but actually very good. Very forceful. Bananas indeed!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I listen to Metal, as well. It's really not that crazy... it's just music, after all. You may just have some silly friends.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I've never really seen how classical and metal are related...like at all.


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## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

I also love metal.. in fact, most of the time my CD listening sequence is classical-metal-pop/rock and then maybe some new age music. There is no law which prohibits a classical music fanatic from listening to Metallica and Wolfmother in the same manner that nobody can prevent a metalhead from having Bach and Haydn in his go-to playlist.:angel:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

violadude said:


> I've never really seen how classical and metal are related...like at all.












Yngwie wears Beethoven's old blouse. Now there's a connection alright!


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2016)

I listen to metal, punk, industrial, noise, electronic but I'm classically trained and play mainly jazz although I've been doing some things in chamber and string ensembles lately. But, really, when you listen to all the forms of jazz, you kind of cover the gamut of all these disparate genres. Jazz, imo, is the most radical form of music there is. Small surprise that one of the pioneers of metal and punk--the MC5--were hardcore jazz fanatics and developed their leads from listening to the ripping, screeching saxes of Albert Ayler, Coltrane, Pharoah, Cannonball and you name it. The lead singer, Rob Derminer, called himself Rob Tyner to honor McCoy Tyner. When Jefferson Airplane began to get radical and experimental, it was to honor Coltrane whom the idolized. The lead solo on the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" was Roger Macguinn transposing a Trane sax riff to guitar. Jazz has profoundly affected every other type of music. It's an endless universe.





It doesn't get more far out than this. That weird moaning is Ayler shouting through his sax.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2016)

Apparently metal and classical lovers share similar psychological traits. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-classical-music-lot-common-study-finds.html

I was a huge metal fan in my teens and collected death metal albums for a couple of years. That all got washed away when started practicing classical guitar, but my interest in metal did resurface a few times over the years.

I do enjoy to get a metal fix once in a while, if I'm exercising, but this music doesn't do much for me anymore. I don't mind the "noise." My 39-year old ears now find it a bit naive and puerile, with musical ideas that are rarely as good as the musicians think (an make you feel) they are.

If I need a metal fix however, I will listen to Amon Amarth. For some reason, although their music is based on a template that they use over and over again, it hits the right spots at the right intensity without taking itself too seriously.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Ialsop said:


> I am no fan of classical rock. I am a fan of Classical AND Rock.
> 
> My fellow metal heads stare at me blankly when I share with them my love of Classical music in all it's grand beauty.
> 
> ...


I came to classical from metal. I think that's not uncommon at all, considering the fact that the neoclassical metal movement has been pretty big in the metal scene. A lot of metal bands who aren't 'full blown neoclassical' still incorporate elements from classical music.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Yngwie wears Beethoven's old blouse. Now there's a connection alright!


I'd say Yngwie was going for that 'Handel' look here, definitely baroque.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

violadude said:


> I've never really seen how classical and metal are related...like at all.


Have you heard neoclassical metal?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Have you heard neoclassical metal?


Some of it, but go ahead and give me some examples that you think sound related to Classical Music.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

violadude said:


> Some of it, but go ahead and give me some examples that you think sound related to Classical Music.


YNGWIE MALMSTEEN Live - Baroque And Roll

Racer X - Scarified


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I am a fan of many types of challenging and progressive music, be they contemporary classical, technical and progressive metal, jazz and fusion, and avant-prog rock.

The things they all have in common is: high level of musicianship, complexity, not 'easy listening', pushing boundaries. 

The metal bands I listen to that fit the above criteria are: Blotted Science (with their 12 tone composition method), uneXpect, The Contortionist, Tesseract, Leprous, Pain of Salvation, Counter-World Experience, Panzerballett, just to name a few. 

I do not like Symphonic metal or power metal, despite their use of symphonic sounding keyboards (and thus, some claimed connection to classical), because if you strip the keyboards away, you are left with very standard metal.

Malmstein, or any other 'shredder' guitarist playing some 18th century classical piece, to me, is laughable.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

violadude said:


> Some of it, but go ahead and give me some examples that you think sound related to Classical Music.


Blotted Science - Cretaceous Chasm


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> I am a fan of many types of challenging and progressive music, be they contemporary classical, technical and progressive metal, jazz and fusion, and avant-prog rock.
> 
> The things they all have in common is: high level of musicianship, complexity, not 'easy listening', pushing boundaries.
> 
> ...


I'm most discomknockerated that Unexpect split up. I'll have to check out some of those names. I'm a fan of the same sort of "stuff."


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

There's obviously no contradiction between liking classical and metal music, but there is an interesting study that gives some evidence showing that those who like classical often dislike heavy metal. In that study of those who said they liked classical music, more disliked heavy metal than any other genre. The study was done in Canada so results elsewhere could vary.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

violadude said:


> Some of it, but go ahead and give me some examples that you think sound related to Classical Music.


Neoclassical metal generally focuses on instrumental, melody-driven music - that is, a certain melody is played by high notes on the guitar and 'drives' the song. Metal songs usually contain a chorus other than this 'main' melody, plus neoclassical generally experiments more with the 'development' sections of the songs. This type of metal also usually features very technical guitar playing - also a nod to virtuoso classical musicians. Often, keyboards are also used to add another layer to the music - the keyboard sounds themselves often resemble an 'orchestral' sound.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

I suppose it comes down to whether you have tin ears?

:tiphat:


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2016)

This is pretty classical in a sort-of-kind-of sort of way.


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## sosophisticated (Feb 4, 2016)

Much of Beethoven and his followers follow the same musical urge- _shake the walls!_ Beethovens 5th is really heavy metal played on acoustic instruments. Or if you prefer, much of metal is classical music played on electric instruments. They're not dissimilar at all.

Also try comparing the main riff to the song Black Sabbath by yes, Black Sabbath to the cello tri tone in Holst's Mars and see the similarity. The band admit the influence themselves.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I was a metalhead before I got into classical, though the former didn't precede the latter by much. I think what I loved in metal was the greater instrumental virtuosity and compositional complexity than you find in most pop and rock. It's not hard to find metal bands with long songs in multiple sections that require a good amount of skill to play. After getting into classical I've found as many similarities as differences. EG, when you consider the grandeur of composers like Wagner, Mahler, and even Beethoven, it's hard to find that in pop music that's not metal. One classical fan I knew once referred to the band Opeth as a "poor man's Mahler," which I take/took as a compliment to them. Listen to a band like Meshuggah and it sounds like minimalism scored for construction site, or an extension of the barbaric rhythms in a piece like The Rite of Spring. The more textured music of bands like Katatonia and The Gathering, or the haunted soundscapes of black metal, vaguely remind me of Ravel and Debussy.

So, yes, I do think there are affinities between the two. I don't listen to metal as much as I used to, but I still have bands and albums that are very special to me: Opeth, Weakling, Emperor, Death, Dream Theater, and a handful of others. I think many would be surprised at how far metal evolved past its rather juvenile origins. You can already see hints at the evolution in bands like Iron Maiden, who could write a 13-minute song based on a Coleridge poem (Rime of the Ancient Mariner) with its multiple sections, and Metallica with the increased speed and technical demands; but in the late 80s and 90s you had bands that were really pushing the limits, going further with length and technicality, combining metal with jazz and other genres. I'd hard to hear an album like Cynic's Focus and relate it to Black Sabbath or Judas Priest.

As a sample, here are some of my favorite songs, with various connections to classical (the last one actually opens with a harpsichord):


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> I was a metalhead before I got into classical, though the former didn't precede the latter by much. I think what I loved in metal was the greater instrumental virtuosity and compositional complexity than you find in most pop and rock. It's not hard to find metal bands with long songs in multiple sections that require a good amount of skill to play. After getting into classical I've found as many similarities as differences. EG, when you consider the grandeur of composers like Wagner, Mahler, and even Beethoven, it's hard to find that in pop music that's not metal. One classical fan I knew once referred to the band Opeth as a "poor man's Mahler," which I take/took as a compliment to them. Listen to a band like Meshuggah and it sounds like minimalism scored for construction site, or an extension of the barbaric rhythms in a piece like The Rite of Spring. The more textured music of bands like Katatonia and The Gathering, or the haunted soundscapes of black metal, vaguely remind me of Ravel and Debussy.
> 
> So, yes, I do think there are affinities between the two. I don't listen to metal as much as I used to, but I still have bands and albums that are very special to me: Opeth, Weakling, Emperor, Death, Dream Theater, and a handful of others. I think many would be surprised at how far metal evolved past its rather juvenile origins. You can already see hints at the evolution in bands like Iron Maiden, who could write a 13-minute song based on a Coleridge poem (Rime of the Ancient Mariner) with its multiple sections, and Metallica with the increased speed and technical demands; but in the late 80s and 90s you had bands that were really pushing the limits, going further with length and technicality, combining metal with jazz and other genres. I'd hard to hear an album like Cynic's Focus and relate it to Black Sabbath or Judas Priest.
> 
> As a sample, here are some of my favorite songs, with various connections to classical (the last one actually opens with a harpsichord):


I don't see the remotest connection between the videos you've posted and classical music. Opeth and Mahler-one would have to be delusional too hear any similarities.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Morimur said:


> I don't see the remotest connection between the videos you've posted and classical music. Opeth and Mahler-one would have to be delusional too hear any similarities.


You're obviously welcome to your opinion. If I'm being honest, I find it difficult to put in the words the similarities I myself feel (more than hear) between them.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2016)

Just picked this up--Symphony X from 2015 release _Underworld_. Not really what I go for in metal but it has its moments:


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## sosophisticated (Feb 4, 2016)

This video on the birth of heavy metal explains the connection of classical to heavy metal it a bit more






From about 10:18 to 18:36 if you're impatient.....

Besides Ian Paice of Deep Purple might just be the reincarnation of Franz Schubert...


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2016)

I love classical music but I love metal (maybe up to about 20 years ago, I don't like most of it now). I need both outlets--one for the delicate emotions and one for the aggressive ones. Some people seem to only want to feed one side but I need to feed both. Similarly, I love the feel of drawing a bow across the strings and feeling the bass hum angelically and other times I like to pluck so hard that I feel like I'm going to pull the bass apart. I think both are primal instincts and I think it is unhealthy to only feed one. You've got a devil and an angel in you and when both are fully developed, they synergetically morph into something that is more than the sum of the parts.

Maybe that's why I dislike and distrust religion so much. Generally, it wants you to feed only one side or the other--or feed one side while pretending that it's feeding the other. I think these create gross imbalances. I think the results of doing this can be catastrophic. I think it paralyzes the impulses instead of freeing them. Like when I watch my cats, they are like angels the way they walk or sleep--there's this effortless grace and serenity. But when it comes time to be the devil, they're the devil. It's nothing they think about or struggle with. When it's time, it's time and they know it. I think this ability has atrophied in humans and music is one way that balance can be restored. That's why there is classical and metal and why both are linked and influence the other.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2016)




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