# Vaughan Williams symphonies



## LouisMasterMusic

Hi,

I am looking for a cycle of Vaughan Williams's symphonies which is quintessentially "English" in its musical language. I have looked on PrestoClassical and considered purchasing Haitink's set, until I found out that one of its reviewers said that some of the other pieces don't sound as pastoral as they should. (He includes the Tallis Fantasia, the Norfolk Rhapsody No.1 and The Lark Ascending as well).

When looking at Vernon Handley's set and Sir Andrew Davis's set, the information was that the narration in the "Sinfonia Antartica" is omitted. I would like some clarification as to whether this matters or not. I would also like to find out which is the best of these sets (there is also the Boult box for Decca which I looked at) and what the best order of listening is, because I am a newcomer to this music.

When planning an order for me, please understand that I look for serenity in Vaughan Williams.

Thank you

Louis


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## samurai

Hi, Louis. Welcome to a great forum.
I have the Sir Adrian Boult RVW Symphonic Set, performed by both the London Philharmonic and New Philharmonia Orchestra. I would recommend this set to any one who appreciates the wonderful symphonic output of Vaughan Williams, as obviously you do. It sounds--especially the "London Symphony"--"English enough" to me, although perhaps I am a poor judge of this as I am an American. Vis a vis the Seventh Symphony ("Antarctic") the Boult traversal has no narration; the music itself is so powerfully compelling that--IMHO--it needs none, as it more than adequately "speaks for itself".
Indeed, I have also heard versions of this work where a verbal narration is included, and felt it added nothing at all to the overwhelming sense of starkness and beauty that this symphony always evokes in me.
I hope this helped you a little in your quest. Anyways, happy hunting! If you have access to Spotify, maybe you could check out other conductors and their readings. I listened to Richard Hickox (spelling?, sorry) rendition of the RVW Second, and was literally "blown away" by the power and passion which he brought to this work.


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## Couac Addict

For cycles, I thought that Slatkin/Philharmonia was possibly the most consistent but not my first choice for any particular symphony (has anyone ever made a great cycle?).

However the later symphonies don't really fit into your "pastoral" criteria so it may not fit your requirements.


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## LouisMasterMusic

Couac Addict said:


> For cycles, I thought that Slatkin/Philharmonia was possibly the most consistent but not my first choice for any particular symphony (has anyone ever made a great cycle?)


This was recommended in "Classical Music" (it's a book listing the greatest recordings of all time), so I am going to purchase it.


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## DrKilroy

Boult is widely recommended, but Handley is also a safe bet. No problem with lack of Englishness - it is always there! All the works, especially Pastoral Symphony, sound as English as it gets. 

The poems in No. 7 are not to be read - it would disrupt the music too much, especially given the attacca connection between movements 3 and 4. But even if it was otherwise, the recording would still be recommended as it is the most powerful and compelling, at least for me. I do not think anyone can beat Handley in the third movement which features Liverpool Cathedral organ!


Best regards, Dr


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## Marschallin Blair

DrKilroy said:


> Boult is widely recommended, but Handley is also a safe bet. No problem with lack of Englishness - it is always there! All the works, especially Pastoral Symphony, sound as English as it gets.
> 
> The poems in No. 7 are not to be read - it would disrupt the music too much, especially given the attacca connection between movements 3 and 4. But even if it was otherwise, the recording would still be recommended as it is the most powerful and compelling, at least for me. I do not think anyone can beat Handley in the third movement which features Liverpool Cathedral organ!
> Best regards, Dr


Best-engineered-and-balanced organ for the Landscape movement ever.


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## BRHiler

I would say Hickox hands down, except for 2 things: 1) not available as a set, and 2) didn't manage to record 7 and 9 before he passed away. If you have the $$$, I would recommend getting the ones he did do.


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## techniquest

If you really want a set that retains all the necessary 'Englishness', then I would suggest you have to go with the Handley set. As has already been suggested, the recording of No.7 (Antartica) is matchless.
BTW, I have this ancient Decca Eclipse recording on vinyl of the 7th with the LPO conducted by Sir Adrian Boult, where the poems are read (by Sir John Gielgud). The poems really do add something to the overall, but the symphony is perfectly fine without them.


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## mikey

I really don't like the early Boult set, I won't bother listing why. They're readily available so you can make up your own mind.
Previn's set has been lauded.
Also the Naxos set with Kees Bakels has a very 'English' sound.


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## LouisMasterMusic

I've now seen a Vaughan Williams boxed set on Classics For Pleasure in a special offer on Presto Classical which includes all nine symphonies performed by the RLPO and Vernon Handley. It also includes smaller works, like Flos Campi and the Oboe Concerto. Is that the best to purchase?


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## Alfacharger

I would strongly suggest that this recording be added to any set purchase you make.


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## Vaneyes

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I've now seen a Vaughan Williams boxed set on Classics For Pleasure in a special offer on Presto Classical which includes all nine symphonies performed by the RLPO and Vernon Handley. It also includes smaller works, like Flos Campi and the Oboe Concerto. Is that the best to purchase?


I see Presto's priced the A. Davis set a little less than the Handley. Both are excellent value. A. Davis has extras also, incl. Tasmin Little in "Lark Ascending". I have singles from both sets that I thoroughly enjoy--No. 5/Handley, Nos. 6 & 9/A.Davis. Although I probably lean toward the A. Davis set, I don't think you can go wrong with either. Good luck in deciding.

Amazon Marketplace is another thought for price comparisons, used and new.:tiphat:

PEE-ESS: What happened with your Slatkin purchase?


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## GKC

Alfacharger said:


> I would strongly suggest that this recording be added to any set purchase you make.


I agree! Incredible performance and sound.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Adrian Boult...










and Richard Hickox...










and if you still desire another alternative: Vernon Handley:


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## LouisMasterMusic

Vaneyes said:


> I see Presto's priced the A. Davis set a little less than the Handley. Both are excellent value. A. Davis has extras also, incl. Tasmin Little in "Lark Ascending". I have singles from both sets that I thoroughly enjoy--No. 5/Handley, Nos. 6 & 9/A.Davis. Although I probably lean toward the A. Davis set, I don't think you can go wrong with either. Good luck in deciding.
> 
> PEE-ESS: What happened with your Slatkin purchase?


I gave up on that one; waited to see info about other cycles, like the Davis and Handley which have been mentioned.


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## LouisMasterMusic

Who would you choose between Sir Andrew Davis and Vernon Handley? The Davis set includes Thomas Hampson in the "A Sea Symphony" by the way.


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## Waehnen

Please help me forward with these symphonies. I have them all on record but at face value the sound is too sonorous and consonant for me. I have with it the same problem I have with Rautavaara’s sonorities. Not enough dissonance to create tension.


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## Forster

I was advised to listen for "polymodality". The 4th is pretty dissonant. But "sonorous" is what I Iike, if I've understood what you mean by it. My favourite is the 3rd.


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## Waehnen

Forster said:


> I was advised to listen for "polymodality". The 4th is pretty dissonant. But "sonorous" is what I Iike, if I've understood what you mean by it. My favourite is the 3rd.


Which symphony do you enjoy the most? And please describe why. It will help my orientation and listening. Thanks!


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## Kreisler jr

I'd also try the 4th and the 8th. As a Sibelian there is some chance that you might eventually like some RWV, but overall he's an anglosphere phenomenon and one gets a rather exaggerated notion of his stature by reading English language internet. Don't bother if you don't get into his symphonies and move on to something else. Or try some of his other works like the Tallis variations, the "Masque" Job, the choral music or lieder.


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## Forster

RVW has been recorded by Portuguese, German, Russian, American and Dutch conductors as well as British. His reputation has grown beyond the Anglosphere.


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## Kreisler jr

Sure, but there is still a considerable status discrepancy between the anglosphere and the rest of the world. I find it a bit odd that everyone seems to be fine with totally subjective tastes and disliking Mozart or other composers considered universal classics but at the same time think that everyone should at least try to love local composers like Miaskovsky or RWV. The French are relatively neglecting many of their own but if French was the language of the internet and Diapason as internationally influential as Gramophone used to be we'd probably all be assumed to love Magnard and Roussel.


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## Forster

Waehnen said:


> Which symphony do you enjoy the most? And please describe why. It will help my orientation and listening. Thanks!


As I said, my favourite is the Pastoral (the 3rd - apparently RVW didn't like numbering his symphonies).

I like the slightly mysterious, melancholic and unsettling atmosphere throughout; the brass theme in the 2nd movement (I think it's repeated by a trumpet, mute trumpet and trombones); the triumphant fanfare in the 3rd (though this sits at odds with the rest, to my ears); the wordless vocal in the 4th movement and the (usually) understated finale, especially the falling brass as the strings play the main theme and then reverse direction at the climax. I find it very moving.

There is a story behind the symphony, but you might like to listen first and decide whether "what it is about" matters or not.


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## Forster

Kreisler jr said:


> Sure, but there is still a considerable status discrepancy between the anglosphere and the rest of the world. I find it a bit odd that everyone seems to be fine with totally subjective tastes and disliking Mozart or other composers considered universal classics but at the same time think that everyone should at least try to love local composers like Miaskovsky or RWV. The French are relatively neglecting many of their own but if French was the language of the internet and Diapason as internationally influential as Gramophone used to be we'd probably all be assumed to love Magnard and Roussel.


Well much as I like some of the "Greats", I'm very happy to listen to RVW and Roussel, at least as often as Beethoven and Haydn.


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## Waehnen

Thanks, listening to the 4th by Haitink now! 

The 4th was OK, now listening to the Pastoral 3rd.


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## Waehnen

I really love the British countryside so this Pastoral hits me. It is atmospheric and somehow very British. I prefer the 3rd to the 4th.


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## HenryPenfold

I listen to RVW regularly and have done so for the last 30 years or so, and this year being the 150th anniversary of his birth, the extra attention on the great master has probably caused me to listen a little more than usual.

Over the last week or so I've been obsessed with symphonies 8 & 9. Since about 2013, I have considered them his best works. Prior to that, I didn't understand what all the fuss was about - sticking mainly with 3, 4, 5 7 6.

Today I've been listening to: 

*Malcolm Sargent*'s premiere recording of 9 remastered by Pristine Classical. 
*Leopold Stkowski*'s USA premiere (25th September Carnegie Hall) beautifully mastered on Signum-Cala. 

These are full bloodied performances that eschew the 'valedictory' misconceptions of this music and present it in all its power and mystery.


(Plus Handley's and Bakels' recordings of 8 - both superb!)


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## Rogerx

If you are still searching,




Great set, has I believe a new cover.


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## Enthusiast

Can anyone suggest a set that does not sound "quintessentially "English" " (to use the language of the OP)? All the recommended sets I know (including Previn and Haitink) sound very English to me. Was Barbirolli's more emotional approach less English than Boult's? I don't think so. Perhaps Colin Davis sometimes tried to "internationalise" Vaughan Williams but he never made a set.


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## Becca

^^The Russian set with Rozhdestvensky??


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## Becca

I haven't the foggiest idea of what "quintessentially English" means ... perhaps in the manner that Vaughan Williams intended?


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## Enthusiast

Becca said:


> ^^The Russian set with Rozhdestvensky??


I don't think I have heard those even though I had thought I was fully paid up as a Rozhdestvensky fan. I must search them out.


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