# Composers who were not highly skilled at playing piano, how did they compose?



## PresenTense (May 7, 2016)

I mean, it is known that Erik Satie, Wagner and Berlioz (who didn't play piano at all) composed great music and they where not highly skilled at their instruments. How can one compose a difficult piece in the piano without playing it? How do they compose for strings without playing those instruments?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Well, Satie's music is not terribly challenging or complex, technically, and neither Wagner nor Berlioz wrote piano music. There *are* examples of composers who were not at the virtuoso level and yet wrote extremely challenging piano works, including Ravel, Schoenberg, and Ligeti (though Schoenberg's works are quite unidiomatic), but the greater question seems to be how one can compose without playing the piano and the answer is that it's not a necessary skill at all (though it can be a helpful one). One can hear the music as one writes it in one's mind, and with some knowledge of the limitations and capabilities of the various instruments, you can achieve idiomatic results.


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## PresenTense (May 7, 2016)

Hmmmn...Interesting.


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

PresenTense said:


> Hmmmn...Interesting.


From the view of a composer who uses this exact method Mahlerian described; not knowing how to play any instruments myself, it's all inside my head, seeing the notes is exactly like reading words, instead of hearing a launguage I hear music.

It is a skill which I have not fully developed, it will take a long time if you don't have perfect pitch; i.e you know the exact correct pitch of every single note and how it sounds like. Practice helps and since the majority of music I write down on a paper manuscript and not in a notation programme it helps me ease into it and make it a easier and easier process.

If your interested in any of my works composed this way; check out some of my posts in the "Today's Composers" section of the forum


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

History shows often documented examples of composers conferring with instrumentalists on how their musical ideas for an instrument will fit that instrument. I am thinking of Brahms and Joachim, and also of Prokofiev and Oistrakh, Ravel and Viñes. Then there is the story of Rimsky and Borodin borrowing instruments from orchestra players, taking them off some place, and seeing how to get sounds out of them.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

JamieHoldham said:


> From the view of a composer who uses this exact method Mahlerian described; not knowing how to play any instruments myself, it's all inside my head, seeing the notes is exactly like reading words, instead of hearing a launguage I hear music.
> 
> It is a skill which I have not fully developed, it will take a long time if you don't have perfect pitch; i.e you know the exact correct pitch of every single note and how it sounds like. Practice helps and since the majority of music I write down on a paper manuscript and not in a notation programme it helps me ease into it and make it a easier and easier process.
> 
> If your interested in any of my works composed this way; check out some of my posts in the "Today's Composers" section of the forum


And I can recommend it very much.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

A couple of composers who weren't particularly accomplished at the piano were Paganini and Elgar (Elgar could play piano, but was more accomplished at string instruments and, interestingly enough, the bassoon). From my own experience with the violin and piano (the former played very poorly, the latter not so bad) and from what seems to be true generally with composers in the past, my sense is that pianists can write music for other instruments, but those familiar with instruments other than the piano (and not the piano) will not ordinarily write for the piano.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Mozart couldnt play the clarinet or horn - as far as I'm aware - but wrote some of the best concertos.


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

Pugg said:


> And I can recommend it very much.


Why thank you  :tiphat:


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