# Beethoven symphony recordings suggestions



## jeffnc

I have the following recordings (the green one is Colin Davis and the 7th). I'm looking for some new recordings with a different spin than Harnancourt - modern instruments, modern recordings, and whatever interpretation is fine even if it's a little idiosynchratic (just has to be "good"), and I'd like really good sound quality (Toscanini and Furtwangler are definitely out.) I'd like a full orchestra, with a nice, rich sound to the strings, and it would be nice to feel the full weight of the orchestra as well. Reference Recordings for example puts out some great sounding CDs, but they have no Beethoven symphonies. I don't need a full set if the recommendations are available individually. I don't really want another 1, 2, or 4 anyway.


----------



## scytheavatar

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sym...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261719101&sr=8-3

This one to me is far and away the best of the Beethoven Symphony Box set. Highly consistent, great sound quality, and most importantly the best balance between the HIP and the old school approach. If you want it even cheaper you can get the DVD box set too, which is the same thing but in video:

http://www.amazon.com/Claudio-Abbad...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261719084&sr=8-1

Or for the best period Beethoven you can get:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-S...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261719311&sr=1-3


----------



## jeffnc

Maybe I wasn't clear - I'm looking for something that is *not* HIP or old school. I'm looking for something modern. Modern instruments, modern interpretation, modern recording quality. Even a surround or DVD audio disc.


----------



## scytheavatar

Maybe I wasn't clear - the Abbado set *is* modern. Modern instruments, modern interpretation, modern recording quality. It has a reduced orchestra like Harnancourt but unlike Harnancourt or any of the other reduced orchestra sets the orchestra feels full and powerful, without sounding shallow (and Harnancourt's Beethoven certainly sounds shallow). It was a revelation for me and Abbado certainly has gotten the best balance when it comes to the divide between the old school full sized orchestra approach and the modern reduced orchestra approach. (I hope you realize that my definition of 'old school' is the Karajan/Furtwangler/Klemperer era of old school).

And if you have a low opinion of HIP sets the Bruggen set is a must have for you, trust me I have a low opinion of many of the HIP sets too. Unlike many of the other hack HIP conductors (who will remain unnamed) Bruggen knows what he is doing; he doesn't follow some of the questionable practices of the HIP crowd, specifically when it comes to tempo.


----------



## Aramis

You have no Karajan? 

Get it at first place.


----------



## World Violist

jeffnc said:


> Maybe I wasn't clear - I'm looking for something that is *not* HIP or old school. I'm looking for something modern. Modern instruments, modern interpretation, modern recording quality. Even a surround or DVD audio disc.


Paavo Jarvi.


----------



## jeffnc

Sorry, I was a little confused by what "old school" meant. For this one I'm definitely looking for a full orchestra. I wasn't aware "modern" implied reduced orchestra now. Maybe this refers to HIP being a modern movement? Again, maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. But I know what I'm looking for 

I like my Harnoncourt version for what it is, but I'm looking for something different for the next one. It does sound ... well, like a chamber orchestra.

I didn't investigate Karajan further since I read his preferred full set didn't have the greatest sound quality.


----------



## jeffnc

World Violist said:


> Paavo Jarvi.


You guys are confusing me. I just looked up Jarvi's version on Amazon, and the first review I see says "Reference HIP performances", and that it's a chamber orchestra. That's not what I'm looking for.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Proxy apologies for the confusion. In reply, let me cite perhaps the most un-confusing post yet made...


Aramis said:


> You have no Karajan?
> 
> Get it at first place.


What _he_ said.

I placed the Karajan-stereo/62-63 set on my "desert island" list back here. It had been rated a 'key-recording' in previous 'Penguin Guides." [Though (curiously) the '09 guide placed Karajan's mono-Philharmonia on the list instead.] It's also short-listed, with no other 'non-HIP' versions rated any higher, in the 'Gramophone Guide.' Perhaps the last word should be reserved for Ralph Lucano, who wrote this the the Morin-edited review tome _Classical Music_:


> _Karajan's jewel remains his 1963 set where the Berlin Philharmonic was playing like gods, and almost every move the conductor made invited the accolade of "definitive." Well, it's not quite that, but it's as close as anyone has come, and its budget price leaves you without excuse._


----------



## emiellucifuge

Jaap van Zweden is also good!


----------



## Artemis

jeffnc said:


> Sorry, I was a little confused by what "old school" meant. For this one I'm definitely looking for a full orchestra. I wasn't aware "modern" implied reduced orchestra now. Maybe this refers to HIP being a modern movement? Again, maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. But I know what I'm looking for
> 
> I like my Harnancourt version for what it is, but I'm looking for something different for the next one. It does sound ... well, like a chamber orchestra.
> 
> I didn't investigate Karajan further since I read his preferred full set didn't have the greatest sound quality.


First of all you might glance through these two recent threads:

http://www.talkclassical.com/7354-period-beethoven-yay-nay.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/7470-best-karajans-3-beethoven.html

You will see discussions about the merits of different approaches. Some of the comments are rubbish but just work your way round that. In one of my posts I suggested that if one is not looking for a conventional HIP approach but instead a set based on a modern orchestra pursuing a period approach then the recent Vanska/Minnesota set is pretty good. It gets good reviews despite what some folk here may have said about it:

.









A more fully conventional approach which is quite well regarded is Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin (NB, Barenboim is an admirer of Furtwangler's style):










Lastly, regards the Harnoncourt set you already have, I reckon it's very good and so too did the BBC's CD reviewer (in an overall comparative assessment of all or most of the sets then available) who placed it top of their recommendations a few years ago.


----------



## scytheavatar

If you are looking for something that's as un-chamber-like as possible and with a better sound quality than Karajan's Beethoven another option I would recommend is Wand's Beethoven:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sym...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261761168&sr=8-1


----------



## jeffnc

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I had looked through those threads already. I do like the Harnoncourt set, just want a different perspective. My uncle gave me that set since he didn't listen to it much. His son (my cousin) is a conductor as well, so he gets free stuff sometimes  Of my cousin's recordings that can be found, they are primarily ballet. But I digress....

I won't be getting a full set. I'll start out with a disc each from Karajan, Wand, Vanska and Barenboim, maybe Abbado, and do my own experimenting from there. Thanks for the info.


----------



## World Violist

jeffnc said:


> You guys are confusing me. I just looked up Jarvi's version on Amazon, and the first review I see says "Reference HIP performances", and that it's a chamber orchestra. That's not what I'm looking for.


Well it isn't hardcore HIP. It uses modern instruments. The interpretation is really dynamic and exciting and musical, though, which is all I care about. It is definitely not HIP for HIP's sake.


----------



## qualityaudio

The Barenboim performances are also available on DVD-A 5.1 format so if you want good sound quality, that would certainly fill the bill.


----------



## jeffnc

The first one I got was Wand - #1 and #6. I'm pretty happy with it. I'm also glad I got another version of #1, even though I said I didn't care about it. I like that symphony, and the Wand recording sounds great. The symphony sounds full, with modern string sound. There is very good bass extenstion on the recording which gives good feel for the bigger string instruments. Out of all of it, the final movement of the 6th seemed a little boring, but otherwise I'm happy with this selection. The modern (80s) recording and remastering sound good (don't get me wrong - sometimes the most natural recordings come from the 60s).


----------



## SixFootScowl

What does anyone think of the Norrington Beethoven symphony cycle?

Which is better the 1980s studio set or the later live set?


----------



## Manxfeeder

Florestan said:


> What does anyone think of the Norrington Beethoven symphony cycle?


I have the studio cycle. I had a friend who was head over heels in love with it. I got the set a couple years ago, and overall, it didn't ring my chimes, and I haven't paid much attention to it since. I probably need to revisit it.


----------



## AndorFoldes

Norrington studio cycle - definitely one of the worst Beethoven symphony sets ever recorded.


----------



## maudia

I love the 1980's recordings - especially the 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8. I do not know the new ones.


----------



## Granate

In between some "Live Mono" Meistersingers von Nürnberg, I heard some samples from Beethoven symphonies by Carl Schuricht on Spotify. The No.1 sounded excellent. The general sound quality improves the Furtwängler studio takes. This whole set was made in studio too almost at the same time as Cluytens and Klemperer. The equipment was in mono and the French orchestra was in studio. Anyone has experience with this EMI release?

I wet my mouth to begin my great Beethoven symphonies challenge, starting first with HIP and then with Mono cycles. One of them is this Schuricht one and probably one of the most gifted in mono SQ.


----------



## premont

AndorFoldes said:


> Norrington studio cycle - definitely one of the worst Beethoven symphony sets ever recorded.


Agree. I find it cold and unattractive. Nine icebergs.


----------



## Joe B

Fritz Kobus said:


> What does anyone think of the Norrington Beethoven symphony cycle?
> 
> Which is better the 1980s studio set or the later live set?


I have the 1980's set in my collection. From the historical perspective, I think what Norrington did was a great accomplishment. This article from "The Guardian" in 2009, an interview with Norrington, gives some great insight into his philosophy of the role of the composer and the roles of the conductor and musicians. The article brings up some really interesting points on conducting and performance practice. It is worth a quick read.


----------



## Merl

Norrington's 2nd set with the SWR is much better than the LCP cycle. Apart from the 9th. that some love and some are unconvinced by, it's a very good set. I'll pm you some LvB suggestions as others are probably sick of me recommending the same sets and recordings.


----------



## Tallisman

George Szell's Cleveland cycle is absolutely outstanding. By far the best 9th and I'd say the best 4th too. Late 50's to early 60's recordings, but the sound is faultless. No recording faults whatsoever, very detailed, sounds like they could have been recorded 20 years later. The perfect antidote to Karajan's chilly lack of emotion whilst maintaining precision and clarity. For the 6th try Barenboim's recent one with the Berliner Staatskapelle. Fresh, vibrant recording.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn

My current choices for a "dream cycle" are:

1 & 2 - Jochum (DG)
3 - Klemperer (EMI stereo)
4 & 8 - Karajan '62 (DG)
5 - Bernstein (1976 Amnesty Concert) (DG)
6 - Walter (Sony)
7 - Bohm (DG)
9 - Furtwangler '54 (Audite)










Unfortunately the Bernstein 5th is only available as part of a 6-CD set, though the set is available for listening through Apple Music and Spotify. It has greater power and profundity than the famous Kleiber 5th. I wish DG would issue the original LP (cover pictured) as a single CD, coupled with the Arrau 4th piano concerto from the same concert.

The Audite transfer of Furtwangler's final 9th is splendid.


----------

