# What instruments are usually in an orchestra?



## Cliffsofdover

This may sound stupid but I kind of want to write a symphony, have wanted to for a while, but I really don't know that much about orchestras. I take it its usually the strings, woodwinds, brass, and percussion, but what about actual instruments? Do they vary? Do composers actually specify how many of what they want or do they just write for general parts? Are the specific instruments usually separated into different parts or do most of the same instruments play the same parts?

Sorry for the vague questions, but I'm just really getting into composing and I'm trying to expand my horizons a bit.


----------



## linz

_*Interesting!*_ Well, First you need to now 'music theory', some 'harmony theory' and 'counterpoint theory', but just some, no need to become an expert. Try the words I mentioned in a search.

_Strings: Viloin, Viola, Cello, Contrabass
Brass: Trumpet, Trombone, French Horn, Tuba
Woodwind: Piccolo, Flute, Clarinet, Oboe, English horn, Bassoon, Double Bassoon
Precussion: Orchestral Harp, Timpani, Trinagle, Cymbal, Xylophone_


----------



## Topaz

You want to write a symphony but don't know what instruments there are in an orchestra? LOL!!!

Thought of looking on Google. That should tell you. 

Mind you, if you don't know what the instruments are you might have a job composing anything for them. You do know what musical notes are I presume? Or would you like clarification on that too?


----------



## hlolli

I'd Start read books my friend!

1. Learn note reading(if you don't know how to)
2. Read Harmoininlehern(after Schoenberg, Ich neine sprachen deutch)
3. Counterpoint (Walter Piston is a good choice)
4. Orchestration! (many books on thad subject)
5. Fundementals of musical compsiton (Scoenberg) or many more.

And there is no rule on how many instuments there should be, exaple I think in one schubert pice he listed 16 ******, and Mahler the 8th he had 3*4 chorals. Well, like the percussion there are so many options you have. Like Mozart he commonly used the same symphony setup the famous g-minor setup(small orchestra).

Point: which instument do you want to be the loudest and whic do you want to take the base rythm if you have a base rythm.


----------



## IAmKing

I also advise listening to more symphonies... It will give you a good idea of whats been done before with regards to setting of instruments... buying a score or two would be a good idea too. Dover does them very cheap.


----------



## 4/4player

Yes. I agree with Iamking.

Im trying to be an aspiring conductor..so people say you must also learn to compose music too. Im currently teaching myself some music theory..but what are these other things, like "counterpoint" theory?
Also, whats the difference between music composition and orchestration? Thanks!
4/4player


----------



## Kurkikohtaus

All of the above said, I will list the standard instrumentations for orchestras, using a generally universally accepted index.

The way the instrumentational indexing works is:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_First set of 4 numbers_
Flutes-Oboes-Clarinets-Bassoons

_Second set of 4 numbers_
Horns-Trumpets-Trombones-Tubas

_T+x_
Tympani and auxiliary percussion (i.e. number of players needed, not number of actual percussion instruments)

_Hf, etc._
Harp and other misc. instruments (i.e. Pf = piano, etc.

_Strings_
Assumes Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola, Cello, Bass

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Various symbols such as *** and *=* _before_ a woodwind instrument denotes an auxiliary instrument of that type is needed. For example:

**2222 *means 2 flute players with one doubling on piccolo.
**3222 *means 3 flute players with one either doubling on piccolo or playing piccolo exclusively.
*22=32 *means 3 clarinet players with one doubling on Bass Clarinet (* means Eb Clarinet) or playing Bass Clarinet exclusively.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Standard Orchestra Sizes*

*Classical*
2222 - 2200 - T - Strings

*Romantic* (Brahms)
2222 - 4230 - T - Strings

*Romantic* (Extended)
*3*322 - 4331 - T+2 - (Hf) - Strings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are of course countless variations of these, but these models are the points of departure. Late Romantic Composers such as Richard Strauss and Mahler use gigantic orchestras that do not adhere to any rules.

Strauss' popular _Don Juan_ is not too big, it calls for:
*3*32*3 - 4331 - T+3 - Hf - Strings

But his _Ein Heldenleben_ requires:
*4*4=4*4 - 8531 - T+4 - Hf - Strings

Mahler, the craziest of all the Romantics, requires the following for the _1st Symphony_, which is typical of his orchestration:
*4*4=4*3 - 7431 - T+3 - Hf - Strings

His _8th Symphony_, the "Symphony of a Thousand" goes like this:
*6*5=6*5 - 8871 - T+3 - Hf, Cel, Pf, Org, mandolin - Strings

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as a suggestion is concerned to our young composer, stick with *2222 - 2200 - T - Strings*. If it was good enough for Beethoven, it probably will work fine for you.


----------



## Topaz

This has got to be a joke. I'm surprised you've bothered with it. People don't start writing symphonies by asking on boards like this what instruments are involved in an orchestra. Crazy.


Topaz


----------



## Kurkikohtaus

Just thought I'd stick it up there for posterity's sake.


----------



## 4/4player

Kurkikohtaus,That is just too complex for me to understand,lol. Could you please elaborate and explain in detail about the standard orchestra sizes and the special numbers for the instruments(ex: *2222)? Thanks!

4/4player


----------



## hlolli

he first bring up wind instuments xxxx (Flutes-Oboes-Clarinets-Bassoons) so 2222 is 2xflutes-2x(h)oboes-2xclarinets-2xbassoons.

So 3322 whould be 3xflutes-3xoboes-2xclarinets-2xbassoons

You can calculate the rest


----------



## 4/4player

Hmm...Thank you very much, hlolli! Now I understand what Kurkikohtaus was trying to say!
4/4player


----------



## IAmKing

4/4player said:


> Yes. I agree with Iamking.
> 
> Im trying to be an aspiring conductor..so people say you must also learn to compose music too. Im currently teaching myself some music theory..but what are these other things, like "counterpoint" theory?
> Also, whats the difference between music composition and orchestration? Thanks!
> 4/4player


I do advise enrolling in a music theory class or hiring a private music theory teacher. Iits not an easy subject to teach yourself.

As for the difference between music composition and orchestration, music composition is the act of composing music... creating new music. Orchestration is more to do with arrangement. For instance, if you composed a piece of piano but wanted an orchestra to perform, Orchestration would be the process of arranging the piece of an Orchestra... I think.


----------

