# Pieces of Music Which Benefit from Being Heard in Their Original Context



## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

I think "Valse Triste" by Sibelius is a good example. Too often it is played as a light salon piece. I find the work takes on a weight and seriousness when played as part of the suite from the play Kuolema ("Death") from which it was derived. The ghostly creepiness that was intended comes out better I think when played in context. It also gives people a chance to hear the haunting "Scene with Cranes" and "Canzonetta" which are nearly as memorable and beautiful than their more famous sibling. In fact, "The Scene with Cranes" may be one the best hidden gems of Sibelius' output. Neeme Järvi's wonderful recording with the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra elevates the music quite a bit:


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

I can, instead, think of an example of a composition and a composer (which we call him God of music today) benefited from not being heard from their original context. St. Matthew's Passion was unwelcomed by people of Leipzig when Bach composed it in 1727 because musically it sounded quite secular and opera-like (though opera did not exist back to that time), or in other words, not religious enough. When Germany became secular in the 19th century, you all know that Mendelssohn-Bartholdy brought this composition up and won popularity back to Bach.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

opera did exist in 1720s and the St. Matthew is "operatic" only in a very wide sense. There is far more secular/operatic church music from this time. There is to my knowledge also no reliable source for contemporary (negative) criticism of the piece (there is just no contemporary review or commentary at all which is less remarkable than one might expect as this was not customary).
Almost ALL church music would obviously be rather different in the context of a service with liturgical things going on and a sermon in between etc. than like today in a concert.

The problem with incidental music is that to have a suite on disc, or even a few lines spoken for context is still totally different than e.g. watching a 2 hour play in the theatre with that music interspersed.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> opera did exist in 1720s and the St. Matthew is "operatic" only in a very wide sense. There is far more secular/operatic church music from this time. .......


I don't get the whole fuss around whether or not Bach was "operatic". "Operatic" is a vague term, especially in the Baroque period where being "operatic" only pretty much mostly meant da capo arias with extravagant melismas or dramatic entries with orchestral tutti. (Bach of course demonstrated he could do this, in many instances, like the recitatives of the Chromatic fantasy). The "complexity of characters" depended more on the nature of the libretti. Hasse, Graun, Graupner, etc, and all the other composers could do this, it's doubtful how hard it was to "copy". There's nothing in Handel that reminds me of the fluent solo-ensemble juxtapositions of Mozart as the Gloria from Bach's G major mass does. I don't see how Bach was less "operatic" in his oratorio music than other composers'.



> Almost ALL church music would obviously be rather different in the context of a service with liturgical things going on and a sermon in between etc. than like today in a concert.


Harnoncourt tried to re-enact this in his recording of Mozart's vespers with extended Latin Catholic rites (recitations) in between the movements. Also, btw, throughout the 18th century, symphonies were also split and treated like warm-up numbers in concerts:
"On 8 May, Mozart briefly returned to Leipzig, where on 12 May he gave a concert at the Gewandhaus. The concert program consisted entirely of Mozart's music: the piano concerti K. 456 and K. 503, two scenas for soprano (K. 505, K. 528) performed by Josepha Duschek, the fantasy for piano solo K. 475, and two unidentified symphonies. Following a custom of the time, the first of the symphonies was split, the first two movements being played at the opening of the concert and the second two before the intermission."
Most secular instrumental music, including tafelmusik, divertimenti and even trios, quartets (which are considered "dead serious" today) were performed with audiences chatting in the background, especially in the context of royal, aristocratic circles. There's a famous painting of Barbara Ployer (one of Mozart's keyboard students) performing with an orchestra and a dog crawling under the fortepiano to reach for its thrown toy, but I can't find it right now.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Related to the thread's subject: I find Barber's Adagio for Strings far more interesting in its original setting as middle movement for his string quartet - the combination with the outer movements works far better for me.

Also one that I have changed my mind about: Mahler's gorgeous Adagietto, often played or included on compilation CD's as stand alone piece. In recent years I have come around to thinking it really makes more sense when it's played in the complete 5th symphony (although that is still far from my favourite Mahler symphony).


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I don't get the fuss about "operatic" either but anyone who has actually heard a baroque opera should realize that Bach is not as "operatic" in his church music as e.g. Italian composers.
As I said, we have practically no contemporary commenting on actual works such as Bach passions (certainly no way enough to form an idea of the general reception in Leipzig or elsewhere). Without any reviews there are obviously also none that complained about being too operatic. If the Leipzig council had written into the conditions or contracts that the church music should not be too operatic, this does not mean very much, it might have been just a customary clause. As far as I know we know of more complaints by Bach vs. the bad conditions he had to work under than by the Council vs. Bach because they disliked something about his music.

I usually do not like any excerpts of multi-movement works as standalone pieces, although I'd probably say that some (Bach Air, the Barber Adagio, the Mahler adagietto) work reasonably well on their own. Whereas a piece like Beethoven's "Pathetique" and "Moonlight" sonatas thrive on their internal contrasts, so I rather dislike isolating their slow movements.


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## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

I like Barber's String Quartet myself. Good example.


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