# Love ... without tragedy, betrayal, loss or futility



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

A colleague suggested that whenever there is a romantic, joyful love scene in an opera, it is always a false dawn and there is tragedy lurking around the corner.

For example, in Berlioz' Les Troyens, the exquisite aria _Nuit d'ivresse et extasse_ sung between Dido and Aeneas is clearly tainted with the knowledge (both from awareness of the story and from the music) that it is all a fragile illusion and that Aeneas will leave her soon and Dido will die soon after.

So .... are there any that are simply joyous celebrations of romantic love that spring to mind?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Difficult to find, since there's not a lot of drama in blissfully happy love. Of course, many operas *end* on that upbeat note, but only after some tough struggles.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Headphone Hermit said:


> So .... are there any that are simply joyous celebrations of romantic love that spring to mind?


There are. Tchaikovsky's _Iolanta_, for example.

I suppose you mean non-comic operas and only by romantic composer? If we'd stretch it to later works, there is also _Gianni Schicchi_, _L'Amico Fritz_...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Maybe if you expand the search to cover all the Classic Greek flavors of 'love'?


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

One of my favourite scenes in l'incoronazione di poppea, is the flirting and budding romance between Valetto and Damigella. Its such an inconsequential part of the opera, but I am always charmed by it.






at that timestamp 1:32:58

edit: It's not perhaps what you're looking for, a bit saucy, but there you go.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Messiaen's _Turangalîla-Symphonie_, while I would be hard pressed to say that it is actually about or representative of anything, is apparently intended that way.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> A colleague suggested that whenever there is a romantic, joyful love scene in an opera, it is always a false dawn and there is tragedy lurking around the corner.
> 
> So .... are there any that are simply joyous celebrations of romantic love that spring to mind?


Of course, in dramatic terms, exactly what makes a _scène d'amour _worthy of a story (whether a novel, a play, an opera)_ is_ the very notion that something is going to destroy the bliss. Would we sit through a three hour presentation, regardless of how great the music is, if it was simply one wonderful love scene after another with no conflict in the plot? That's not drama. That's a Justin Bieber record.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

SONNET CLV said:


> That's not drama. That's a Justin Bieber record.


Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Beethoven's Fidelio has a happy ending as do Rossini's La Cenerentola and Bellini's La Sonnambula.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Aramis said:


> There are. Tchaikovsky's _Iolanta_, for example.
> 
> I suppose you mean non-comic operas and *only by romantic composer*? If we'd stretch it to later works, there is also _Gianni Schicchi_, _L'Amico Fritz_...


Nope! Not at all - any composer!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Ukko said:


> Maybe if you expand the search to cover all the Classic Greek flavors of 'love'?


Nope - won't satisfy my colleague - they want a Madelleine Bassett-type of aria (those who remember the Wooster stories will know who I mean!) - joy, happiness, satisfaction ..... all the type of stuff that isn't 'dramatic'


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

The moment that romantic love becomes non-problematic, it instantly becomes non-romantic and wanders into the realms of classicism, idyll and pastorale. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a very different thing.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Although they'll have a couple of problems early on, I'm confident that Fiordiligi and Ferrando will continue to deepen their love for each other and live happily ever after.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> The moment that romantic love becomes non-problematic, it instantly becomes non-romantic and wanders into the realms of classicism, idyll and pastorale. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a very different thing.


My colleague is looking for examples of romantic love, not Romantic love. Any era of 'classical' music will do


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Headphone Hermit said:


> My colleague is looking for examples of romantic love, not Romantic love. Any era of 'classical' music will do


Oh! Now I get it. But, you know, to me romantic is Romantic - there is no romantic unless it's Romantic. But to each his own!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Yup - the size of your Rs (careful how you say this :devil matters in this thread :lol:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

amfortas said:


> Difficult to find, since there's not a lot of drama in blissfully happy love. *Of course, many operas *end* on that upbeat note, but only after some tough struggles.*


Try Donizetti: L'Elisir D'Amore


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Well, when Kundry tries to come down on Parsifal in the enchanted garden he shoves her away and runs for his life, and in the final act settles for kissing her chastely on the forehead. If more love scenes were like that we'd have more happy endings. Might prevent some disasters in real life too.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Try Donizetti: L'Elisir D'Amore


How about La fille du régiment .


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> How about La fille du régiment .


And that one we can get with Beverly Sills!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Florestan said:


> And that one we can get with Beverly Sills!


Happy indeed!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, there are, for instances:


Rimsky-Korsakov's "May Night"
Carl Nielsen's "Masquerade"
Glinka's "Ruslan & Ludmilla"
Shebalin's "The Taming of the Shrew"


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Florestan said:


> *Beethoven's Fidelio has a happy ending* as do Rossini's La Cenerentola and Bellini's La Sonnambula.


Excellent example of loyal and enduring love with a happy ending!


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice has a happy ending. And both decent main characters.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

The second I saw this one, I was going to write a rant about IT'S NOT ROMANTIC IF IT'S UNPROBLEMATIC IN THE REAL WORLD BECAUSE ROMANTIC LOVE REACHES FOR INFINITY BLAA BLAA but then I realized I had already done that two years ago.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Marinera said:


> Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice has a happy ending. And both decent main characters.


I think originally it had an unhappy ending but he had to change it because at that time operas were expected to have happy endings.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Rossini's Tancredi has both tragic and happy endings, but hard to find the happy ending. The CD set with Eva Mei has both.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Sloe said:


> I think originally it had an unhappy ending but he had to change it because at that time operas were expected to have happy endings.


Yes, that's right and one of the reasons I like it so much.

There's another baroque opera - Rameau's Hippolyte et Aricie that ends well too. Some major strife here too, but no romantic betrayal between Hippolyte et Aricie; some sordid going-ons with Hyppolytus' step mother, but that particular spot of trouble's is caused by one vengefull goddess, and that's the conflict driving the plot. H&A are loyal, faithfull and morally wholesome characters that get their happily-ever-after.


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## Mahlerite555 (Aug 27, 2016)

All you need is love by The Beatles.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> The second I saw this one, I was going to write a rant about IT'S NOT ROMANTIC IF IT'S UNPROBLEMATIC IN THE REAL WORLD BECAUSE ROMANTIC LOVE REACHES FOR INFINITY BLAA BLAA but then I realized I had already done that two years ago.


Still unlucky in love, eh?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mahlerite555 said:


> All you need is love by The Beatles.


You mean : Love is in the air


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