# Loudness



## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

I was listening to Vivaldi, Four Seasons and as often happens I felt compelled to turn the volume up way beyond concert levels. 

Does anyone else do this when listening to classical music?

Certainly loudness increases the pleasurable response we receive from music. This is why when you go to audition new equipment the salesman always sets the volume loudest on the speakers he is trying to sell you. This is why rock concerts are so ridiculously and dangerously loud (it is a big part of why I stopped attending them) 

But is it sacrilegious to exceed concert levels when listening to classical? I mean, we always read about the best sound being that which reproducing live music, the concert best? 

Thoughts?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Maybe this is more of a "Tech" question, but does anyone remember that stereos used to have a "Loudness Contour" button? 

What WAS that?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

pianozach said:


> Maybe this is more of a "Tech" question, but does anyone remember that stereos used to have a "Loudness Contour" button?
> 
> What WAS that?


Amplifiers had a "loudness" button that boosted low and high-frequency. These were to offset the loudness fall-off at lower volume. Boosting these frequencies produces a flatter equal-loudness contour that appears to be louder even at low volume, preventing the perceived sound from being dominated by the mid-frequencies where the ear is most sensitive.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

eljr said:


> But is it sacrilegious to exceed concert levels when listening to classical?


I don't care about concert levels. I just listen at the volume I find ideal for my musical enjoyment. Usually, that's quite loud, but there are times when I prefer a soft delivery.


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## VoiceFromTheEther (Aug 6, 2021)

Live concerts tend to be a bit too loud for me (fff should be registered as a crime against humanity ), so I never even approach such volumes in home listening.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

If you want to avoid the need for hearing aids as long as possible, you will avoid jacking up the volume of classical music, especially if using headphones or in-ear earbuds. Orchestras can easily reach sound levels of 95-110 db or more. Also, classical music is known for the wide dynamic range whether live or recorded so that if one has the volume up during quieter passages, the sudden increase in loudness causes the fine capillaries serving the hair cells of the inner ear to constrict, reducing blood flow to the hair cells which can be temporarily or permanently damaged. Even before reduced hearing occurs one can suffer permanent tinnitus.

I now wear ear plugs to every concert and movie (the latter particularly for the previews where volume in the theater is extremely high).


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

DaveM said:


> If you want to avoid the need for hearing aids as long as possible, you will avoid jacking up the volume of classical music, especially if using headphones or in-ear earbuds. Orchestras can easily reach sound levels of 95-110 db or more. Also, classical music is known for the wide dynamic range whether live or recorded so that if one has the volume up during quieter passages, the sudden increase in loudness causes the fine capillaries serving the hair cells of the inner ear to constrict, reducing blood flow to the hair cells which can be temporarily or permanently damaged. Even before reduced hearing occurs one can suffer permanent tinnitus.
> 
> I now wear ear plugs to every concert and movie (the latter particularly for the previews where volume in the theater is extremely high).


Interesting.

I have never considered a orchestra loud at all. I guess that is because rock concerts are in a different world for loudness. CA even passed some kind of legislation in reference to rock concerts.

But still, my question, resubmitted more succinctly:

Is it optimal to listen to classical at home at the same decibel level as one would hear it at a concert hall?

Not louder nor more diminutively.

As a purist, I think the answer is yes.


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## That Guy Mick (May 31, 2020)

eljr said:


> Amplifiers had a "loudness" button that boosted low and high-frequency. These were to offset the loudness fall-off at lower volume. Boosting these frequencies produces a flatter equal-loudness contour that appears to be louder even at low volume, preventing the perceived sound from being dominated by the mid-frequencies where the ear is most sensitive.


Yes. A good description of the equal-loudness contour; a phenomenon documented in the 1930's that is interesting to see on the Fletcher and Munson Curve graph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Human hearing is much more perceptive of mid range frequencies. The loudness button boosts bass frequencies by about six decibels around the 50-100 Hz range (depending on the equipment) for the purpose of equalizing the perception of low and mid/upper frequencies during low-moderate volume listening. As volume is raised the difference in perception of loudness between the low and mid/upper frequencies decreases.


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## That Guy Mick (May 31, 2020)

I learned that listening to Symphonies in the car can be very frustrating.... If you like listening to the soft passages, that is.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

eljr said:


> I have never considered a orchestra loud at all.
> 
> Is it optimal to listen to classical at home at the same decibel level as one would hear it at a concert hall?


SOME pieces of music are definitely made loud, and must be played loud to appreciate: Firebird, Planets, Star Wars, Ride of the Valkyries. In person they can, and should, be played on the edge of pain!

And yes, playback should match a normal live performance volume in your listening room. BTW, a string quartet or a solo trumpet are really loud in person.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

eljr said:


> I was listening to Vivaldi, Four Seasons and as often happens I felt compelled to turn the volume up way beyond concert levels.
> 
> Does anyone else do this when listening to classical music?
> 
> ...


I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here but "way beyond concert levels" really is extremely high. If you often feel the need to ramp the volume up to that level, might it be a good idea to get your hearing tested?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here but "way beyond concert levels" really is extremely high.


not really

its less loud than the very back of a rock concert Maybe you misunderstood, I was referring to classical concert levels.

Classical concerts are about 70 DB. They generally peak about 90db if the music calls for such an eruption.

Rock concerts by contrast have a noise floor around 90db and peak at a very unhealthy 120 or more.

but thanks for telling me to get my ears checked. Nice to know random folks on the internet care. :tiphat:


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

Agree with a variety of responses here. Typically I attempt to adjust the volume to what may be realistic for a live performance….typically…..then allow the piece of music to display its full dynamic range naturally.

But, there are times that I ‘crank it up’, particularly at the beginning of a composition, only to reduce the volume when the dynamic shift becomes naturally too loud. So yea, I’m guilty of cranking it up at the beginning of a piece of music sometimes, as it ‘gets me into’ the piece of music initially…..but again, usually correct it later.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Unless the concert hall or theatre is too small I almost never found live classical music too loud. It can get loud but the large hall makes this basically a huge sound that is not irritating or painful. As I don't have a huge room and equipment I can not do this at home, so I usally play music rather soft.
(I have never been to a big rock concert, I have been to several small ones in smallish venues because I knew some of the people playing and it was usually horribly loud. I once had hissing in one ear for half a day afterwards and stopped going; there is only so much I'll do for social obligations. I also found most clubs way too loud and stopped going there a long time ago.)


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

The figures of 60-90 dB which seem to have been used frequently in general articles, probably cut and pasted, for a classical concert are too low. The following is from a study regarding the exposure of classical musicians: The peak levels mentioned are not what someone in the audience will be exposed to, but they will be much more than 90 db. And it is the short, extremely loud peaks that can damage the inner ear over time.

_ Table 2 shows the measured range of peak values. The number of peaks per minute exceeding 115 dBC for the different instruments is listed in Table 3. The maximum peak values were almost identical for the different high string instruments. Violas and second violins were more frequently exposed to peak values exceeding 115 dBC. The maximum peak values measured at the low strings were 124 dBC and peaks only exceeded 115 dBC on rare occasions. The maximum peaks in the brass section were measured to 133 dBC and the peaks exceeded 115 dBC more frequently compared to the other instruments (Table 3). Timpani players were measured with peaks up to 132 dBC. High peak values of 132 dBC originated from the percussion and exposed the celesta as well. Peak values of 131 and 128 dBC were measured for the flute and the bassoon and less for the other woodwinds (122-123 dBC). Peaks were less frequent among the woodwinds compared to the left ear of second violins and violas although the woodwinds were positioned closer to the brass section (Table 3)._


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

DaveM said:


> The figures of 60-90 dB which seem to have been used frequently in general articles, probably cut and pasted, for a classical concert are too low. The following is from a study regarding the exposure of classical musicians: The peak levels mentioned are not what someone in the audience will be exposed to, but they will be much more than 90 db. And it is the short, extremely loud peaks that can damage the inner ear over time.
> 
> _ Table 2 shows the measured range of peak values. The number of peaks per minute exceeding 115 dBC for the different instruments is listed in Table 3. The maximum peak values were almost identical for the different high string instruments. Violas and second violins were more frequently exposed to peak values exceeding 115 dBC. The maximum peak values measured at the low strings were 124 dBC and peaks only exceeded 115 dBC on rare occasions. The maximum peaks in the brass section were measured to 133 dBC and the peaks exceeded 115 dBC more frequently compared to the other instruments (Table 3). Timpani players were measured with peaks up to 132 dBC. High peak values of 132 dBC originated from the percussion and exposed the celesta as well. Peak values of 131 and 128 dBC were measured for the flute and the bassoon and less for the other woodwinds (122-123 dBC). Peaks were less frequent among the woodwinds compared to the left ear of second violins and violas although the woodwinds were positioned closer to the brass section (Table 3)._


Your copy and paste speaks to the performers exposure not the audiences. Plus, these values are fleeting peak numbers and my guess, taken during particularly robust performances.

In other words, apples to oranges. Not at all what is being discussed.

Thanks for stopping by though!


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Listening at what would be a live performance volume level seems like a good place to start. I generally listen at this volume level. But like others, I'll crank a particular section of a piece. With a quite listening environment and equipment with a silent noise floor, realistic listening levels really are perfect. A little higher or a little lower is just picking your seat at the concert.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

eljr said:


> Your copy and paste speaks to the performers exposure not the audiences. Plus, these values are fleeting peak numbers and my guess, taken during particularly robust performances.
> 
> In other words, apples to oranges. Not at all what is being discussed.
> 
> Thanks for stopping by though!


Repeated fleeting levels over 100 db can damage hearing over time. Carry on.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I seldom went to pop/rock concerts, clubs. fraternity parties, etc. because I never understood the need for deafening volume. I listen to CM at whatever volume lets me hear the actual music without overly disturbing whoever else is around. My wife does not understand limiting, or why an entire Josh Grobin song is "louder" than most Wagner.

I did sit in the front row once at a CSO/Solti tour concert during the Enigma Variations, several of which blew me through the back wall.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I don't recall ever attending a symphony concert where the decibel level was so high it pained my ears. I have been at pop/rock concerts where the sound level was unbearable. There's little pleasure in such an experience for me.

I recognize that the volume level of a string quartet will likely be less than that of a full symphony orchestra, unless one is considering one of the contemporary works for electrified instruments, in which case the string quartet can be quite punishing. Still, punishing volume levels seem more the domain of torturers than of concert musicians.

I set my home stereo listening levels to what I consider a reasonable semblance of an actual concert level. If the string quartet is cranked up too high it sounds artificial. If a symphony orchestra is cranked down too low it sounds unreal. There are times when an orchestra tutti hits at _fff_ and I've reached for the volume level to temporarily downsize the sound (if, say, I'm not home alone or there's a reason to keep levels low), but normally I try to achieve a realistic loudness level. So I play hard rock louder than I play acoustic folk, I try to get solo piano to a level where I feel a solo piano should sound if I'm sitting several feet away from the soundboard, I want solo acoustic guitar music to sound like it does when a fellow guitarist is sitting beside me plucking his instrument, I play Terry Kath's "Free Form Guitar" (from the Chicago album) at a level close to punishing -- I think it should be that way -- but never to a point where it proves unbearable. I value my hearing.

Reason should dictate such things, not the upper level of one's volume control. (I noted the other day that the volume knob of my JoLida tube amp rarely goes past the quarter-way mark, and that's a loud enough level for most music in my listening room, and I was considering if I had ever cranked the knob all the way to the right and what might that do for the sound. I suspect it will be quite loud. Maybe one of these days I'll take out a metal album and try that out. Or perhaps I should use Penderecki's _Thren_. I have neighbors to whom I wouldn't mind subjecting such an experience.)


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

That Guy Mick said:


> I learned that listening to Symphonies in the car can be very frustrating.... If you like listening to the soft passages, that is.


I once rented a car that would adjust the volume dependent on the road noise. It would get louder the faster you went, and when you slowed down or stopped the volume would diminish.

Surprisingly this feature worked rather well. I was very happy with it.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

NoCoPilot said:


> SOME pieces of music are definitely made loud, and must be played loud to appreciate: Firebird, Planets, Star Wars, Ride of the Valkyries. In person they can, and should, be played on the edge of pain!


Bravo!!!!!!!!!



NoCoPilot said:


> And yes, playback should match a normal live performance volume in your listening room.


This appears to contradict your previous statement. Can you clarify?

I long thought accurate reproduction of the live concert was the holy grail of home listening. As if you were seated front and center. Same volume as well.

Then, just before the great pandemic I was sitting in Carnegie Hall in my favorite seat enjoying a concert when it dawned on me... "The sound at home is better!"

At first I quickly shooed this thought from my mind as I understood the inherent blasphemy in such contemplation. 
No matter how hard I tried to bury this thought it keep surfacing. 
Finally I succumbed. 
I now allow myself to accept the fact that modern recordings on a good sound reproduction system at a volume that fits your mood that day offers better sound than the concert hall!

There, I have said it.

It's good to get it off my chest. 
Now I must endure the ridicule such a treasonous admission begets.

I am ready.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

That Guy Mick said:


> I learned that listening to Symphonies in the car can be very frustrating.... If you like listening to the soft passages, that is.


Yes, I simply do not listen to anything but Rock in the car.

I know some enjoy a good choral as they drive  but I can't, sadly.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Since I will never have a symphony orchestra in my room, and hate to think what it would sound like if I could, the idea of playing my system at a comparable volume is absurd.

I listen to all music (no matter the genre) at a comfortable volume for my ears, my system, and my wife.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> Since I will never have a symphony orchestra in my room, and hate to think what it would sound like if I could, the idea of playing my system at a comparable volume is absurd.
> 
> I listen to all music (no matter the genre) at a comfortable volume for my ears, my system, and my wife.


This is a bit... disjointed.

No one will ever have a symphony orchestra in their home and if they did it would be farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr louder than being at a concert.

You cannot have missed the point. We are speaking of how loud a classical concert is from the audiences perspective. (which is not all that loud)

I am not sure why anyone would not listen to music of any genre at a comfortable level. The question was (rephrased for you) , at times, is louder than concert level comfortable?

I think sometimes you just want to be gruff and combative for the sake of being gruff and combative.

No need. We are all friends!


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

eljr said:


> This appears to contradict your previous statement. Can you clarify?


I'm afraid I won't be able to clarify, because there is no contradiction in my two statements. Maybe YOU can point to what you don't understand?

Our local Seattle Symphony Orchestra, under Maestro Gerard Schwartz, many times put the heavy weight of the Full Orchestral Weapon on my chest.



eljr said:


> I now allow myself to accept the fact that modern recordings on a good sound reproduction system at a volume that fits your mood that day offers better sound than the concert hall!


Don't confuse the acoustics of a bad concert hall with the sound of an instrumental ensemble. Having heard much live music n small halls, outdoors, or even in people's living rooms, I think I have a fair idea of what live music sounds like. Some halls do not promote good concert sound; in fact I've left quite a few performances I paid good money for because the acoustics were so terrible. However, a good hall allows you to hear everything clearly, without a lot of "hall effect," and those can be a joy to attend.

And loud. OMG some symphonic performances have rivaled rock bands.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

eljr said:


> This is a bit... disjointed.
> 
> No one will ever have a symphony orchestra in their home and if they did it would be farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr louder than being at a concert.
> 
> ...


I was responding to this statement:

_"And yes, playback should match a normal live performance volume in your listening room."_ Which seems pretty plain on its face, although maybe a bit crudely phrased.

Sorry if my writing style appears gruff to you; I will try to moderate my tone. Or use more emoticons.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> I was responding to this statement:
> 
> _"And yes, playback should match a normal live performance volume in your listening room."_ Which seems pretty plain on its face, although maybe a bit crudely phrased.
> 
> Sorry if my writing style appears gruff to you; I will try to moderate my tone. Or use more emoticons.


Peace brother.

I love your posts, for the record.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

:lol:Yes, let's have many more emoticonsThey are the height of modern communication


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

The problem boils down to wider dynamic range in Classical than other genres. In fact more often than not, modern rock recordings are brickwalled to death. So there's little remaining dynamic range. When playing Classical in my semi-public work environment, I'll run it through a DBX compressor in limiter mode. That prevents the soft passages from becoming inaudible. When listening through speakers at home, I'll play it through Foobar2000 with the seekbar plugin at the bottom. I can see when it's about to get very loud, and hit the volume down on the remote to compensate.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> Since I will never have a symphony orchestra in my room, and hate to think what it would sound like if I could, the idea of playing my system at a comparable volume is absurd.
> 
> I listen to all music (no matter the genre) at a comfortable volume for my ears, my system, and my wife.


I have never thought that was the goal of an audio system, even the most high end systems.

A much more realistic goal, is to have a system transport one to the original venue where the performance was recorded. This is a more attainable goal.

As long as a system can do a good job at reproducing soundstage, imaging, and other spatial cues, one can get the impression that they are sitting 10 rows back at the venue.

For example, my system is in a pretty small room, yet instruments seem to come from well beyond the outer edges of my speakers (as if my side walls do not acoustically exist), and many feet behind the speakers* (as if my back wall has disappeared). I am hearing music as if I am 10-15 rows back, with the orchestra being in the correct proportion within that context. And musicians are in correct relation to the venue boundaries, and each other.

Percussionists are clearly coming from the back of the orchestra, violins are clearly coming from the left, cellos and basses from the right, brass from the back but not as far back as percussion, etc.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Simon Moon said:


> A much more realistic goal, is to have a system transport one to the original venue where the performance was recorded. This is a more attainable goal.


This makes a lot of sense. Thanks Simon!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

progmatist said:


> The problem boils down to wider dynamic range in Classical than other genres.


yes, that is one of Classical music's main attributes, imo - the constant variety, fluctuation in dynamic level....rock music is just loud....all the time [I know, there are groups that do vary it a bit] - but the general level is loud - if you go to a rock club, it's deafening, you can't hear your self shriek....that's why I gave up on this long ago.....now, a nice jazz trio, cocktail pianist, lounge combo - that can be most enjoyable....


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

The dynamic range comes from the pppp end, not the ffff end though.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I listen to the level that I prefer for a given work, and then my wife will cut whatever it is by half


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Listening to music today is inevitably flavored with an expectation for the effects brought about by remarkable equipments, not a guilty pleasure by its own right. Once the value of the special equipments need to shine with their potential exploited, loudness can not avoided, it is nothing to do with whether the piece is classical or rock. But surely, it is underwhelming to listen to rock in gentle volume all the time. I turn up the volume once for every 2-3 month for rock, but I would be shy to share classical music with loudness spreading into the neighborhood. As long as one does not disturb the others or ones own health, you are free to turn up a bit or dozen more bits of sound volumne.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

NoCoPilot said:


> The dynamic range comes from the pppp end, not the ffff end though.


Which is why I run it through a limiter when playing it publicly. To raise the pppp to more of the ffff level.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> If you want to avoid the need for hearing aids as long as possible, you will avoid jacking up the volume of classical music, especially if using headphones or in-ear earbuds. Orchestras can easily reach sound levels of 95-110 db or more. Also, classical music is known for the wide dynamic range whether live or recorded so that if one has the volume up during quieter passages, the sudden increase in loudness causes the fine capillaries serving the hair cells of the inner ear to constrict, reducing blood flow to the hair cells which can be temporarily or permanently damaged. Even before reduced hearing occurs one can suffer permanent tinnitus.
> 
> I now wear ear plugs to every concert and movie (the latter particularly for the previews where volume in the theater is extremely high).


DaveM, Always good to get a medical opinion! Just because it is not ear-splitting like some rock, we should not assume classical music cannot cause hearing loss. I have a "notch" (hearing loss) in the octave above the highest C on the piano, which is common in musicians according to my audiologist. It probably comes from playing in band and orchestra during high school and university, plus I heard quite a bit of loud music in clubs too. The practical effect is that I may mistake hard consonants like "d" or "t" because the high-frequency at onset is attenuated. I was alerted to this issue and changed my habits. But hearing loss is insidious since it can happen gradually and I have to be vigilant.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

That Guy Mick said:


> I learned that listening to Symphonies in the car can be very frustrating.... If you like listening to the soft passages, that is.


Classical in the car is a non starter for me due to that very reason


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I try never to go above 80dB in my headphone listening. My average for CM is 65-70, with peaks around 80. I use an inexpensive decibel meter to occasionally calibrate my levels.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I try never to go above 80dB in my headphone listening. My average for CM is 65-70, with peaks around 80. I use an inexpensive decibel meter to occasionally calibrate my levels.


Can you post the model you use? I'd be interested in it if it were for a simple enthusiast such as myself.

I know 90% of the time I listen at rather low volume. Peaking around 50 but this reading is on a free app via my phone.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Kreisler jr said:


> (I have never been to a big rock concert, I have been to several small ones in smallish venues because I knew some of the people playing and it was usually horribly loud. I once had hissing in one ear for half a day afterwards and stopped going; there is only so much I'll do for social obligations. I also found most clubs way too loud and stopped going there a long time ago.)


Here's a true story. A number of years ago I went to see some friends of mine play. They're a jazz-rock band, with very elaborate interplay between the instruments, and their music benefits from being heard clearly.

After the first song, I stormed up to the person behind the house mixing board and yelled, "What the %&@# are you doing??? This isn't a punk concert, or a hard rock concert. You have the bass cranked up to 100% distortion, and the overall level is so high that we can't hear ANYTHING. You are totally *ruining* this band's performance."

He seemed to listen to me, and backed off on the volume and EQ. The rest of the concert was too loud, but at least tolerable. I had SEVERAL people in seats around me, who had seen what I'd done, thank me for "fixing" the house sound.

After the performance, the band sought me out, and asked if I had talked to the sound man. I sheepishly admitted I had, fearing they'd set it the way they wanted during their pre-concert sound checks.

Just the opposite. They told me the sound man was an arrogant a**hole who had told them that *he* knew how to run house sound, and *they* didn't. They had complained repeatedly to him during sound checks that the mains were way too loud, and he just shrugged them off and said it would sound different when the hall was full.

I don't know why the sound man listened to me. He was obviously an old hand at heavy metal sound, and thought he knew everything. Maybe it was because without looking I told him exactly which frequencies he'd boosted and by exactly how much.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

That Guy Mick said:


> I learned that listening to Symphonies in the car can be very frustrating.... If you like listening to the soft passages, that is.


Sometimes they're too quiet even with a decent speaker set up. Some recordings' quiet parts are just too quiet.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

eljr said:


> Can you post the model you use? I'd be interested in it if it were for a simple enthusiast such as myself.
> 
> I know 90% of the time I listen at rather low volume. Peaking around 50 but this reading is on a free app via my phone.


The model is "Risepro," just some cheap Chinese one I'm sure. I cut a hole in some cardboard, placed the meter through it, and placed it against the cups of my headphones to get my reading. Haven't gone deaf yet


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

AeolianStrains said:


> Sometimes they're too quiet even with a decent speaker set up. Some recordings' quiet parts are just too quiet.


Like modern movies. It is impossible to hear soft dialogue and loud scenes are offensive.


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

Yep, most modern movies have waaay too much dynamic range, where it is not even needed. And modern music recordings (other than classical music) are compressed to hell.

To me, dynamic range in music is very, very important, be it classical or rock/metal.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> Since I will never have a symphony orchestra in my room, and hate to think what it would sound like if I could, the idea of playing my system at a comparable volume is absurd.
> 
> I listen to all music (no matter the genre) at a comfortable volume for my ears, my system, and my wife.


I can very much sympathize with this, which isn't far from my own practice. Even if I own a rather good HIFI system, I never had the ambition of having a symphony orchestra in my room. Fortunately BTW I most often listen to chamber music and soloists. However with the dynamic range of CDs this may result in some quiet passages being almost inaudible. And yes, I have the remote at hand all the time to compensate for this. Inconvenient, but necessary.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

AeolianStrains said:


> Sometimes they're too quiet even with a decent speaker set up. Some recordings' quiet parts are just too quiet.


I dunno. I *like* when music has dynamic range in the pppp direction, when there are tiny details which are barely audible. I try to keep a quiet listening room, I try not to have other distractions when I'm doing close listening. I'm retired and my wife is as quiet as a mouse, so it's pretty easy. It drives me nuts to have the TV on in the other room.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

AeolianStrains said:


> Sometimes they're too quiet even with a decent speaker set up. Some recordings' quiet parts are just too quiet.


The Mark Wigglesworth/Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra recording of Shostakovich's 2nd received many complaints. The first couple of minutes with only the cellos and basses are so quiet, many people thought it was pure silence. They thought the CD was defective.


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

I also absolutely love the quiet passages that are barely audible!

And the TV that my wife has on every waking minute, drives me crazy. Not my wife, but the TV!


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Judas Priest Fan said:


> I also absolutely love the quiet passages that are barely audible!
> 
> And the TV that my wife has on every waking minute, drives me crazy. Not my wife, but the TV!


https://www.amazon.com/MiiLink-Blue...616&sprefix=elegiant+bluetooth,aps,132&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Ca...8&sprefix=bluetooth+headphones,aps,122&sr=8-1


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

For me, or for her?


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Judas Priest Fan said:


> For me, or for her?


Either/or I guess. Whoever has the stronger will and wears the pants.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

NoCoPilot said:


> Either/or I guess. Whoever has the stronger will and wears the pants.


Whether or not they care to admit it, most men wear the pants with their wives' permission. Most men forget how to even pick out their pants once they marry.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

NoCoPilot said:


> Either/or I guess. Whoever has the stronger will and wears the pants.


Seems to me, both wear the pants depending on circumstance, task, natural inclinations...

I do think the female more dominate as by virtue of the marriage itself the male has already submitted.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

eljr said:


> rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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