# Top 10 Orchestras



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

http://www.artsculturetheater.com/worlds-best-10-symphony-orchestras-in-classical-music/

Comments? It's an interesting list, but the absence of the Gewandhaus Orchestra is ridiculous.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^ So which one would you remove in order to add Leipzig?

Given that it was a poll of readers, I think the results were as much influenced by past history as by present status.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Becca said:


> ^^ So which one would you remove in order to add Leipzig?


Probably the LSO or the LAPO.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Personally, i would delete at least half of them and replaced them with orchestras that promote unsung composers and under performed works. Just me.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Well, it's an interesting list. It was obviously translated from another language (or written by someone with very little imagination) -"This orchestra is known for how beautifully they play both classical and contemporary music." OK... But in all seriousness I don't know what the LAPO and BRSO are doing on there. The Czech Phil, St. Petersburg Phil, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, plus a lot more, have more distinctive sounds to me.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

In a game played earlier this month, these were the top five orchestras:

1. Royal Concertgebouw
2. Berlin Philharmonic
3. Vienna Philharmonic
4. Staatskapelle Dresden
5. Chicago Symphony


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Doesn't a lot depend upon who is conducting the orchestra?

So, I'll offer this band:









The Orpheus Chamber Orchestra.

https://orpheusnyc.org/


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I wouldn't have placed the Budapest Festival Orchestra up there with the "big boys". Maybe I'm just underrating them?


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

^^^ yep! You're under-rating them! They are astoundingly good.

This is just the Gramophone top 20 from Ten years or so back, isn't it?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ yep! You're under-rating them! They are astoundingly good.
> 
> This is just the Gramophone top 20 from Ten years or so back, isn't it?


Damn, like I needed another reason to check out Iván Fischer's Mahler with them!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Joachim Raff said:


> Personally, i would delete at least half of them and replaced them with orchestras that promote unsung composers and under performed works. Just me.


That'll be the day. There are some smaller German orchestras that from time to time play or record unsung composers; and some of those orchestras are quite fine! In the US, only small, regional - usually amateur - orchestras play the unsungs.

As a list goes, I have this problem: unless one has heard each of them live, in concert, the rankings are a joke. I've heard Chicago give bloody bad concerts. I've heard the LSO play scrappily - their minimal rehearsing then play attitude doesn't always work. And if you took a recording of the same work from each of them and played them for a group of listeners, does anyone really believe they could tell a difference - Oh, it's Dresden? I don't.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> Damn, like I needed another reason to check out Iván Fischer's Mahler with them!


They are very good. I have the 1st, 2nd and 4th so far, and thoroughly enjoy them.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

I don't have any recordings from the Cleveland Orchestra later than the Szell period. Is it still a top-rate orchestra? I don't mean that facetiously - I'm just not that aware. I should try and go up there and catch a concert, if this shutdown ever ends.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> And if you took a recording of the same work from each of them and played them for a group of listeners, does anyone really believe they could tell a difference - Oh, it's Dresden? I don't.


I have been very interested to note in the blind comparisons that there are some who are very good at doing exactly that ... not perfect but much better than random chance.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

Becca said:


> I have been very interested to note in the blind comparisons that there are some who are very good at doing exactly that ... not perfect but much better than random chance.


Really? How do you do that? Do you give them a list of choices and they have to match them up with the recording, or do you just give them the recording and see if they can just come up with the orchestra?

I've heard that when they do blind comparisons between Stradivarius violins and modern ones, that people who claim normally to believe the one sounds better than the other actually can't distinguish, but that wouldn't quite be the same - different orchestras would definitely have distinct sounds.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Becca said:


> I have been very interested to note in the blind comparisons that there are some who are very good at doing exactly that ... not perfect but much better than random chance.


It's an impressive skill which I certainly don't possess. It would require a very dedicated, committed, and meticulous listener.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

At least historically, I would put Boston at the top of American orchestras along with Chicago and Cleveland.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

1-8 German ones
9 - An American one
10 - London Philharmonic Orchestra


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> Really? How do you do that? Do you give them a list of choices and they have to match them up with the recording, or do you just give them the recording and see if they can just come up with the orchestra?.


I post links to 4 or 5 performances of the same piece (see example: Blind Comparison - Beethoven 7th ) with the intent that people can comment on the performances without being biased about the conductor and/or orchestra. The object is not to guess the performers but some enjoy doing so.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> At least historically, I would put Boston at the top of American orchestras along with Chicago and Cleveland.


The problem with historical is that it has doesn't necessarily have any relationship to the present. Some which were definitely not in the top rank 20 or more years ago could fairly be put there now, and the reverse is probably true.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> I don't have any recordings from the Cleveland Orchestra later than the Szell period. Is it still a top-rate orchestra? I don't mean that facetiously - I'm just not that aware. I should try and go up there and catch a concert, if this shutdown ever ends.


Cleveland is astonishing to hear - and they've lost nothing over the years. They play with a sense of intonation that is staggering and delightful to hear. Rhythmically precise beyond criticism. And even if they've never been known for having a powerhouse brass section they can knock you out of your seat, and the sound is razor sharp, extremely well balanced and gutsy. Dohnanyi used to complain that they'd go out there and play a great concert and George Szell got the credit. I doubt that there are any players left in Cleveland who played with Szell, but the legacy he laid down was firmly embraced - and enforced - by the players. They're very proud of their orchestra. I'm lucky in that one classical FM station I can pull in broadcasts their concerts. It's really a shame that the recording industry has basically imploded and we don't get many new ones from Cleveland. They, Boston, Philadelphia, New York, Los Angeles, St. Louis, Chicago, Dallas and some others just play fantastically well.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Becca said:


> I have been very interested to note in the blind comparisons that there are some who are very good at doing exactly that ... not perfect but much better than random chance.


It used to be much easier...orchestras had their own characteristic tone and styles of phrasing and articulation....there's been a definite "homogenization" in the orchestra world....


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> At least historically, I would put Boston at the top of American orchestras along with Chicago and Cleveland.


Boston is sounding good these days with Nelsons, after a long period in the doldrums....Levine got things going...the orchestra had gotten pretty stale under Ozawa...Ozawa improved things from the Leinsdorf era...but morale had slipped pretty badly...Nelsons is doing an excellent job, imo....


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Years ago I could more often than not guess right on the VPO (because of its horns in F) and the BPO (because to me their oboes had a uniquely smooth -- almost clarinetish -- sound), but probably couldn't do that today. I might on a good day recognize the CSO by its brass section, but no guarantees.  "Average" playing standards have grown remarkably in the last 60 years.

As far as the list goes, the descriptions are weirdly uninformative. No Czech Philharmonic? Makes the BRSO sound perfect, which it decidedly isn't (decades under Kubelick notwithstanding). Don't know about current status of BSO/NYPO/Philadelphia. Nor the London orchestras, which over the years seem to take turns being the best (have always had a soft spot for the Philharmonia).


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

wkasimer said:


> It's an impressive skill which I certainly don't possess. It would require a very dedicated, committed, and meticulous listener.


Same here, I would love to have such a great ear to distinguish orchestras or even conductors...


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## Adam Bodlack (Apr 28, 2020)

The Orchestra that plays all the video game music is hype - London Philharmonic Orchestra


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## Adam Bodlack (Apr 28, 2020)

The Orchestra that plays alongside snarky puppy for some songs is real good too.


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