# pseudo-Haydn



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Of Haydn, I read in Jan Swafford's _The Vintage Guide to Classicla Music_:



> And his popularity became such that an extensive cottage industry develolped among some composers faking Haydn; musicologists are still trying to straighten out the confusion.


Are you aware of any of this having been recorded? I'd be rather interested in hearing the music of fake Haydn.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I haven't heard any fake Haydn (to my knowledge) but apparently the same problem was encountered with Josquin Desprez in the renaissance period and music scholars are still working to weed out the many fake Desprez pieces of music.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I know that Salomon, Haydn's promoter on his trips to London, wrote some works that were thought to be by Haydn but have now been properly attributed to Salomon.

I've actually got a recording of Haydn's _Surprise_ and _Miracle_ symphonies arranged as piano trios by Salomon, with Haydn's approval. This is kind of "fake Haydn," but it was done in a bid to get as many people as possible an opportunity to hear these works if they weren't able to attend the orchestral performances of the original works...


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

There are plenty of pieces from the Classical period that sound a lot like Haydn. It would be unfair to say all of them were deliberately writing 'fake Haydn' (such as Joseph Martin Kraus in Sweden, some of whose music sounds distinctly Haydn _Stürm und Drang_, but is remarkably original in its own way), but some lesser composers (such as Dussek, Beck and Cannabich) do not necessarily have a strong individual voice.

In the 17th and 18th centuries it was not so unusual for works to be published under the name of a well-known composer in the hope if gaining wider currency. Sometimes the fogginess of history and the lack of accurate records can lead to such misattributions (eg the work of one composer innocently copied (for study purposes) in the hand of another). This would include Mozart's 2nd, 3rd and 37th symphonies, the first 4 piano concertos, the 'Haydn Toy Symphony' and the swathe of works supposedly by Pergolesi which were actually penned by Count Unico Wilhelm van Wassenaer (this includes several pieces that Stravinsky used in _Pulcinella_ which he thought were by Pergolesi).

The tradition of arranging symphonic works for piano trio was commonplace in the Classical period. After all, with no recorded music, TV or radio, this was often the only possible way of making a composer's music accessible to those for whom lavish symphony concerts were unavailable.


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## Bill H. (Dec 23, 2010)

Then there's "mistaken" Haydn, like the famous 'St. Antoni' Chorale, thought to be by Haydn and forever enshrined in Brahms' "Variations on a Theme by Haydn."


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

if 'fake' mean spurious or wrongly attributed to Haydn, the earlier Haydn SQ were once the example, now it is attributed to Romanus Hoffstetter.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

If you want something that sounded and was obviously influenced by Haydn directly, yet rigorous and original, try Hummel's masses, written for their common employer, Prince Esterhazy. Hummel succeeded Haydn at Esterhazy and continued to compose masses for his employer for specific occasions.

3 separate CDs played by Collegium Musicum 90/Richard Hickox (on period isntruments).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Lot of good suggestions and information here, so hearty thanks to everyone - but especially to Jurianbai. That might be exactly what I was looking for, or at least it might help me get on that track.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

"Pseudo-Haydn " is an ambiguous concept. It could mean any of several different things, the most interesting possibilities being:

*A* - a piece of music actually composed by Haydn but which is wrongly ascribed to composer A. This type represents an unknown quantity of such music, but examples possibly exist.

*B* - a piece of music previously attributed to composer B but which is now regarded as by Haydn. Examples exist. I spotted a few after Googling.

*C* - a piece of music actually composed by composer C but which is still wrongly attributed to Haydn. This type is probably the most contentious and frequently discussed type of "fake" Haydn. A sub-set of this type is the alleged deliberate faking of material written by other composers and passed off as having been written by Haydn. This is "R-N" territory par excellence.

*D* - a piece of music previously ascribed to Haydn but which is now regarded as by composer D. classic example is the "Haydn" Hob 3/5 spurious Hoffstetter string quartet.

*E* - a piece of music composed by composer E which fakes Haydn but this has always been known to be the case. This I think is the type referred to in the OP. I haven't read Swafford's book (and I don't intend to) but from the limited quotation in the OP I would guess that this is what is being referred to.

*F* - a piece of music recently discovered music which purports to be by Haydn but which proves to be a modern forgery (by composer unknown) after due analysis. Examples have been discovered. I spotted a few after Googling.

.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

It's curious to me that it could mean all of those things in music. In theology, afaik it only means C and D.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

> the swathe of works supposedly by Pergolesi which were actually penned by Count Unico Wilhelm van Wassenaer (this includes several pieces that Stravinsky used in Pulcinella which he thought were by Pergolesi).


Which ones, do you have references?


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## AmateurComposer (Sep 13, 2009)

The famous Toy Symphony, presently attributed to Leopold Mozart, used to be attributed to Haydn. It was recorded as such in a Columbia 78 RPM record.


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