# When is Opera's Golden Age For You???



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

If you were able to travel back in time to sample opera around the world for a season, what period would you choose? I am inspired by the new box set of the first season at the New Met in 66. I think that would do it for me: Sutherland, Horne, Nilsson, Corelli, Rysenek, Price, Varnay, Tebaldi, Merrill,Caballe.... all in their prime ( and Callas, past her prime... still would love to see). Sounds pretty wonderful to me. The early 30's with Flagstad, Melchior and Ponselle also is a terribly tempting time. Maybe I spoke to rashly. One thing is for certain, opera today pales in comparison to then.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Paris, 19th century. Between February 1828 (_La muette de Portici_) and the end of the century. *[1]*

Singers of the calibre of Nourrit, Duprez, Levasseur, Falcon and Viardot, with Malibran, Rubini and Tamburini at the Italiens - and, later in the century, Miolan-Carvalho, Faure, Sasse, Krauss, the de Reszkes and Mary Garden.

Historically accurate sets and costumes.

Spectacular stage effects.

Large choruses (Donizetti's _Dom Sébastien _has a chorus of a thousand).

A series of great operas: Meyerbeer's mighty six; Auber's _Muette_ and _Fra Diavolo_; Rossini's _Tell_; Halévy's _Juive_; Herold's _Zampa _ and _Pré-aux-clercs_; Donizetti's _Favorite_ and _Fille_; Berlioz's _Troyens _- even though it was a failure; Gounod's _Faust_; Thomas's _Hamlet _and _Mignon_; Offenbach's _Contes d'Hoffmann_; Bizet's _Carmen_; Massenet; Saint-Saëns's _Samson_ and _Henry VIII_; Delibes's _Lakmé_; Reyer's _Sigurd_; Lalo's _Roi d'Ys_; and Chabrier's _Le roi malgré lui_.

Many operas that simply aren't done, and haven't been done for a century: nearly every Halévy opera except _La Juive_, Paladilhe's _Patrie!_, Salvayre's _Dame de Monsoreau_, and most of Auber's operas.

And a richness of musical and dramatic imagination that has possibly never been surpassed.

*[1]*: Just before this time: Boieldieu's _Dame blanche_. After it, Massenet's masterworks, Chausson's _Roi Arthus_, Charpentier's _Louise_, and _Pelléas_.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

If I only could have seen Dame Joan in her very prime, also the Souliotis and Freni that's all I want for Christmas.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I'd go back to the 1960's and 1970's, since I didn't live through those decades and many of my favorite singers were in their primes then. I think of the 1990's as a "golden age" too, though one that I can actually recall.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Hmm! It seems to be about the voice and the singers, rather than about the works?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> Hmm! It seems to be about the voice and the singers, rather than about the works?


As far as me concerns: you are right, but then again they sung about the 1970 ties.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Pugg said:


> As far as me concerns: you are right, but then again they sung about the 1970 ties.


Paisley, striped or polka dotted, with a Winchester knot?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Now..............


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> Hmm! It seems to be about the voice and the singers, rather than about the works?


For me at least. If one were into early music or avant garde productions, then today would be optimal. Mozart is also doing really well today with world class singers abounding. Verdi and Wagner... not so much.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Even though it excludes my 2 favorites, Neil Shicoff and Magda Olivero, I would have to chose the era of 1955-1965 as my glory days. It includes a pastiche of incredible talents -- one after the other.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

For singers, the fifties through to the mid to late seventies. For works the mid to late eighteenth century through to the mid twentieth century. With the exception of, of course, Mozart and Beethoven.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Opera's Golden Age? Anything "BU" (before Eurotrash) became the norm.

Literally, when Emmy Destinn was singing in the early part of the 20th Century.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'll take Russia, from the mid-19th Century (Rubinstein, Dargomyzhsky, Glinka, Serov) through the 1960s (Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Shebalin). The period boasted great operatic singing (Igor Stravinsky, Chaliapin, Arkhipova, Preobrazhenskaya, Ivanov, Vedernikov, you name it). And even though Stalin's meddling threatened the art, the performance tradition remained well intact.

I have no arguments with what SimonTemplar said: the French had its glorious period also. As did the Italians with its verismo period (1890s through the 1920s with Mascagni, Puccini), which is mighty fascinating (great singers including Caruso, Rosa Ponselle, Titta Ruffo, Eugenia Burzio).


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> For singers, the fifties through to the mid to late seventies. For works the mid to late eighteenth century through to the mid twentieth century. With the exception of, of course, Mozart and Beethoven.


For me, for works, it would be from Handel's time to Verdi's middle period.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Even though it excludes my 2 favorites, Neil Shicoff and Magda Olivero, I would have to chose the era of 1955-1965 as my glory days. It includes a pastiche of incredible talents -- one after the other.


Didn't Olivero come out of retirement to spectacular acclaim during that period. Maybe I am off. BTW, I always enjoy Chicoff when he sings on Sirius/XM.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> For me, for works, it would be from Handel's time to Verdi's middle period.


Farinelli would be fabulous to hear!!!!!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Farinelli would be fabulous to hear!!!!!


Singing Violetta ......?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

For singers, I'd say there was no single golden age, since different musical traditions required different vocal skills and new music tended to make new demands. We have no recorded evidence before the twentieth century, but within the period of recording I'd cite the first two decades as the golden age for Italian opera. For German opera, I'll take probably the 1920s to the early 1940s (before WWII disrupted everything), when Wagner was sung by the likes of Leider, Flagstad, Lawrence, Lubin, Lehmann, Thorborg, Branzell, Melchior, Lorenz, Volker, Schorr, Schwarz, Hotter, and Kipnis.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> For singers, I'd say there was no single golden age, since different musical traditions required different vocal skills and new music tended to make new demands. We have no recorded evidence before the twentieth century, but within the period of recording I'd cite the first two decades as the golden age for Italian opera. For German opera, I'll take probably the 1920s to the early 1940s (before WWII disrupted everything), when Wagner was sung by the likes of Leider, Flagstad, Lawrence, Lubin, Lehmann, Thorborg, Branzell, Melchior, Lorenz, Volker, Schorr, Schwarz, Hotter, and Kipnis.


Yeah, I realise now that I was too late with my singers golden age. I should have started with the thirties.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I'd say 1940 to 1980


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'd say 1940 to 1980


Broad taste so to speak.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Easy. When Muzio, Lubin, Ponselle, Leider, Caruso, Schipa, Smirnov, Leider, Chaliapin, Bastianini etc still roamed the stage. Mythical era 

I also consider 1950-1965 the golden age of opera on record, when EMI produced many exceptional full opera recordings with "modern" divas like Callas, Schwarzkopf, De Los Angeles, and the young Scotto/Caballe/Moffo.

The present time seems like the golden age for Baroque/early Classical, and a declining period for Verdi/Wagner.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

silentio said:


> Easy. When Muzio, Lubin, Ponselle, Leider, Caruso, Schipa, Smirnov, Leider, Chaliapin, Bastianini etc still roamed the stage. Mythical era
> 
> I also consider 1950-1965 the golden age of opera on record, when EMI produced many exceptional full opera recordings with "modern" divas like Callas, Schwarzkopf, De Los Angeles, and the young Scotto/Caballe/Moffo.
> 
> *The present time seems like the golden age for Baroque/early Classical, and a declining period for Verdi/Wagner.*


I completely agree. I think while people are getting more particular about who's doing their coloratura, they care less so about who's doing the dramatic singing. For example, someone like Joyce DiDonato could never have had a career back then, but now she's a superstar. On the other hand, I cannot really think of any singers today in the dramatic repetoire who can compare to Flagstad, Leider, etc.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ma7730 said:


> I completely agree. I think while people are getting more particular about who's doing their coloratura, they care less so about who's doing the dramatic singing. For example, someone like Joyce DiDonato could never have had a career back then, but now she's a superstar. On the other hand, I cannot really think of any singers today in the dramatic repetoire who can compare to Flagstad, Leider, etc.


The subject of big, dramatic voices, and why (or whether) they're scarce these days, often comes up. Heldentenors, heldenbaritones, dramatic sopranos, Verdi baritones - singers who can really make an exciting effect in the big Wagner, Verdi and verismo roles, ride the waves of orchestral sound, and fill a house with thrilling tone - have always been uncommon, but seem especially so now. It's tempting to say that the coincidence of Flagstad and Melchior dominating Wagner at the Met in the 1930s and '40s was a never-to-be-repeated fluke, but Melchior sang Tristan with three of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of the century - Leider, Flagstad, and Traubel - whose careers overlapped, and none of whom has a present-day equal in sheer vocal splendor. During those years the heavy Wagner roles were also sung by the likes of Marjorie Lawrence and Germaine Lubin. In the decade after WWII, Eileen Farrell, at least potentially a Wagnerian soprano in their class, never took on Wagner in the theater, while Varnay and Modl carried on nobly with less luxuriant instruments. In the 1960s and 70s the vocal phenomenon Nilsson had to make do with a variety of less than heroic Tristans, and since her retirement there has been, arguably, no Wagner soprano with a voice of equal amplitude, consistency, and ease, employed over such a long and impressive career.

A similar case might be made for dramatic singers in other repertoire.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

ma7730 said:


> I completely agree. I think while people are getting more particular about who's doing their coloratura, they care less so about who's doing the dramatic singing. For example, someone like Joyce DiDonato could never have had a career back then, but now she's a superstar. *On the other hand, I cannot really think of any singers today in the dramatic repetoire who can compare to Flagstad, Leider, etc.*


Exactly.

However, when I mentioned the present time as the golden age for earlier music and the declining time for Verdi and Wagner, I didn't mean to imply any association or causation. DiDonato is doing just fine, if not fantastic, in her right repertoire. She almost re-invented the Handelian female singer as a worthy opponent of Bellinian or Verdian prima donna in term of dramatic power. For example, I would take this:






over this:






I haven't followed her output for a while, but the last time I checked, her _Maria Stuarda_ or certain excerpts from Rossini's _Armida_ are indeed impressive.

For another pairing, I much prefer the youngster Karina Gauvin to the great Elly Ameling in this _Armatae face_:











There are also David Daniels, Patrizia Ciofi, Sandrine Piau, Magdalena Kozena etc. Most of them can be classified as small voices, but they are doing many enjoyable and innovative things, at least in the studio.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Silentio I heard David Daniels in a large symphony hall with a symphony. He was very easily heard.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

silentio said:


> Exactly.
> 
> However, when I mentioned the present time as the golden age for earlier music and the declining time for Verdi and Wagner, I didn't mean to imply any association or causation. DiDonato is doing just fine, if not fantastic, in her right repertoire. She almost re-invented the Handelian female singer as a worthy opponent of Bellinian or Verdian prima donna in term of dramatic power.


Yes, I completely agree, I think it's fantastic how Joyce is bringing subtext and drama to roles often cast aside as "purely entertainment".


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> For singers, I'd say there was no single golden age, since different musical traditions required different vocal skills and new music tended to make new demands. We have no recorded evidence before the twentieth century, but within the period of recording I'd cite the first two decades as the golden age for Italian opera. For German opera, I'll take probably the 1920s to the early 1940s (before WWII disrupted everything), when Wagner was sung by the likes of Leider, Flagstad, Lawrence, Lubin, Lehmann, Thorborg, Branzell, Melchior, Lorenz, Volker, Schorr, Schwarz, Hotter, and Kipnis.


Sounds good to me. Melchior is like nothing else and I'd love to have heard him live and not in ghastly radio transcriptions.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> For works the mid to late eighteenth century through to the mid twentieth century. With the exception of, of course, Mozart and Beethoven.


I would put start for the golden age for works a bit later to circa 1830 when the use of secco recitatives had finally been abandoned to as long as there were active composers that was active in the beginning of the twentieth century so the 1970-ies would be the end. Since not all contemporary operas are singers mumbling to strange noises, sorry to offend anyone but that is how many contemporary operas sounds to me the golden age for works is still going on.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> For me, for works, it would be from Handel's time to Verdi's middle period.


in terms of composition, I would agree (I initially answered based more on singing quality)


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