# Your ideal practice system?



## Ingélou

Just out of interest, those of you who like me are learning an instrument or returning to it & have not exactly achieved Maestro status -  - what have you found suits you best as far as practising goes?

Max Jaffa wrote that one and a half hours daily was enough for learners - 'don't let your fingers get tired'. He suggested three quarters of an hour in the morning, rest or change, then another 45 minutes later in the day. But if I do that I only have to 'warm up' again & I feel it wastes time. 

My preference: two hours daily, in the morning before I get tired but not too early to begin or I'm stiff & sleepy. Say ten till twelve. Sometimes I do more but I hate having to do less.

I have read science supports taking a break - maybe not practising one or two days a week, or even breaking for a week or two every few months. Certainly, when I took up my fiddle after 30 years, I was surprised to find that I wasn't all that bad - my typing experience had kept my fingers subtle. But now that I'm a sexagenarian, I don't think I have any time or time off to spare...

What suits me won't suit you necessarily, but I'm fascinated by others' experiences. Please do share!


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## kv466

Find someone you can jam with and play with them as much as possible! Also, a weekly gig helps.


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## Taggart

Playing the piano, I have been told by my teacher not to do more than about 20 minutes at a time to avoid tension.

Trouble with playing with others is nerves. Going to a lesson is bad enough ....


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## Ingélou

That's a fab suggestion, kv466. 
Taggart & I can play music together - piano & violin - and it does help me to learn pieces. Plus, it's fun.
I hope maybe one day we'll encounter other people we can jam with & who like our sort of music.
Thanks...


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## Ingélou

In the absence of people to jam with, I find it helps me to play along with the cds I have, or the mp3s my teacher has provided. I think the reason is that in trying to keep up with them, I can't think about my nerves or my stiff muscles. It relaxes both.

Hoping that in a year or two, someone will post some tips they've found helpful, or give me the benefit of their practice experience. 

Au revoir until then!


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## OboeKnight

I've found that a really nice and slow warm up goes a long way. I usually practice around three hours a day. An hour at school, and two when I get home (this is not counting ensemble rehearsals). I normally go through my scales and work on consistency of tone and intonation. Then I do a few etudes from my Ferling book. The quick ones really help to get my fingers moving. Then, depending on what I'm working towards, I get to work. Now, I'm working on preparing three really challenging pieces for a recital. I think the best way to practice is to have a plan. Don't try to go through your entire repertoire everyday, that doesn't allow you to diligently focus on anything. So like today, I decided the Hindemith was my goal. I spent an hour just working on that piece. When you practice like that, you really start to see improvement.


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## Feathers

Now I feel bad for having no practice system at all. 

Even when I took lessons, I didn't really have a regular practice system. I guess I can't blame anyone but myself for my insufficiency in technical ability.


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## PetrB

Unless you really do not yet have a grasp of the entire movement or piece, PLAY THROUGH, even if that is a bit 'rough.' Stopping to correct is literally programming those stops into the later goal of through performance, where one has no choice but to keep on going.

The piece is an entirety: too much breaking down and not playing through has you losing sight / the sound of it.
Ultimately, you could say any piece is a continuum of a series of gestures, musical, and the execution a series of gestures, technical - 'getting' one in isolation is far different from the actuality of connecting them into a contiguous whole, the longer speech or thought.

Then of course, isolate and work on any trouble spots.

Play with others, especially others who are somewhat more advanced than you:
What happens is that you reflexively 'pull up a notch' in responding to their fluidity, phrasing, articulation, all elements 'musical' beyond dwelling on the technical and 'how to negotiate this passage.' So much of learning how to play is having the feeling of execution, technical and musical, explained well enough that while practicing you know 'what you are looking for,' and ultimately, that is a matter of literally also 'feeling' how that feels -- which once experienced is then in your mental and motor memory, more likely to be found again until it becomes yours, and 'secure.'

ACCOMPANY SOMEONE, take the subsidiary role, learn to be in the background, supportive, and what sort of dynamic and thought that takes. Accompanying a good singer is a wealth of musical information for any instrumentalist.

While doing scales, arpeggios, and all the stock in trade configuration exercises, stop the moment you are not making them 'musical.' It is far too easy for anyone to fall into their fingers going over the routine and to forget the sound -- the stock in trade are 'figures' like the figure skater required to execute those elements, and they are readily boring. The moment they cease to be musical, the fingers are working without much thought, ergo almost zero benefit.


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## Novelette

Minimally 2 hours a day. Maximally 5.

I usually create my own practice etudes, derived from particular works and motifs. As a leftie, it's my right hand that needs the most attention so I usually practice said motifs on my right hand and roll multi-octave arpeggios in the left hand.


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## hreichgott

Practice system? A mix of exercises, long-term repertoire, short-term repertoire or sight-reading or playing by ear, and review pieces. I suppose that is a bit general but practice routine is so individual!


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## Kazaman

I really don't care what I do, as long as the end result is a structurally revealing and rhythmically vital performance. The approach changes with the difficulties. Things that stay the same, though, are memorising from the score (away from the piano), slow practice, counting and singing.


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## Jaws

OboeKnight said:


> I've found that a really nice and slow warm up goes a long way. I usually practice around three hours a day. An hour at school, and two when I get home (this is not counting ensemble rehearsals). I normally go through my scales and work on consistency of tone and intonation. Then I do a few etudes from my Ferling book. The quick ones really help to get my fingers moving. Then, depending on what I'm working towards, I get to work. Now, I'm working on preparing three really challenging pieces for a recital. I think the best way to practice is to have a plan. Don't try to go through your entire repertoire everyday, that doesn't allow you to diligently focus on anything. So like today, I decided the Hindemith was my goal. I spent an hour just working on that piece. When you practice like that, you really start to see improvement.


Don't forget the long notes, these are really really important if you want good control of your air stream. I do an hour of long notes every day. The air stream is what plays the instrument so if you don't have the muscles to control that, all the rest is a waste of time.


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## PetrB

Novelette said:


> Minimally 2 hours a day. Maximally 5.
> 
> I usually create my own practice etudes, derived from particular works and motifs. As a leftie, it's my right hand that needs the most attention so I usually practice said motifs on my right hand and roll multi-octave arpeggios in the left hand.


Piano? Whichever hand is busy with the extracted passage as exercise, the other hand should be doing it parallel, requiring your first figuring out a fingering, and then playing them together.

The 'arpeggio' routine as you are doing with the 'non-busy' hand, though doing arpeggios, is too 'auto remote.' It is better to challenge both hands and the brain that controls them.


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## arpeggio

*Patience*

Patience. Don't get mad and through your instrument through the living room window. This is really bad if you live in the upper floors of an apartment.


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## Taggart

arpeggio said:


> Patience. Don't get mad and through your instrument through the living room window. This is really bad if you live in the upper floors of an apartment.


Depends on a) who's below b) the nature of the instrument - the finest sound a viola makes is when it hits an oboe in the trash can.


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## Three14

Ingenue said:


> Just out of interest, those of you who like me are learning an instrument or returning to it & have not exactly achieved Maestro status -  - what have you found suits you best as far as practising goes?
> 
> Max Jaffa wrote that one and a half hours daily was enough for learners - 'don't let your fingers get tired'. He suggested three quarters of an hour in the morning, rest or change, then another 45 minutes later in the day. But if I do that I only have to 'warm up' again & I feel it wastes time.
> 
> My preference: two hours daily, in the morning before I get tired but not too early to begin or I'm stiff & sleepy. Say ten till twelve. Sometimes I do more but I hate having to do less.
> 
> I have read science supports taking a break - maybe not practising one or two days a week, or even breaking for a week or two every few months. Certainly, when I took up my fiddle after 30 years, I was surprised to find that I wasn't all that bad - my typing experience had kept my fingers subtle. But now that I'm a sexagenarian, I don't think I have any time or time off to spare...
> 
> What suits me won't suit you necessarily, but I'm fascinated by others' experiences. Please do share!


A constant variety of finger exercises that really push your muscles. The trick is to keep yourself loving it and not start to hate it. Metronone push-ups are a great way to show yourself your progress. Allow your hands and fingers and mind to rest - remember you are working out a lot of muscle groups - cardio exercise helps, but no weight lifting.


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## Volve

Taggart said:


> Depends on a) who's below b) the nature of the instrument - the finest sound a viola makes is when it hits an oboe in the trash can.


Viola jokes, viola jokes everywhere! xD

To the topic, I usually practice about 4 to 6 hours a day. I start a couple hours after I wake up, which gives me time to get out of that sleepy zombie state. On morning, i usually spend about 2 hours and focus on the technique exercises (mostly Czerny, Bertini and Hanon, but i mix it up with other, i have several books of various exercises). After i take my lunch break, around 14h, I practice my repertoire. Just make sure that you are having fun with it, it's very important, when you feel you are getting tired, take a break, drink some water, walk around the place, and then get back to it. Don't overwork yourself.


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## Novelette

PetrB said:


> Piano? Whichever hand is busy with the extracted passage as exercise, the other hand should be doing it parallel, requiring your first figuring out a fingering, and then playing them together.
> 
> The 'arpeggio' routine as you are doing with the 'non-busy' hand, though doing arpeggios, is too 'auto remote.' It is better to challenge both hands and the brain that controls them.


Indeed, I do this as well.  This was not a comprehensive description of my practice techniques, only select.


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## Trumpetcat

Breathing exercises. Mouthpiece playing. James Stamp warmups. Lipslurs. Arban double/triple tonguing. A major scale a day plus its relative minor- harmonic and melodic, in quarters, 8ths, 16ths, their triads, V7 and diminished vii7, chromatic. (I'm forced to do it haha) Then I practice the assigned etudes and work on whatever piece I have like right now I have this concerto. And then long tones!


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## Head_case

I'm practicing my posture. Apparently when I play flute, I lean to one side - the side of the transverse flute. 

Now I thought that was my better side, but apparently it depends on where the sheet music is and it's difficult to get a balance with the sheet music when playing standing. 

I need a taller music stand. Mine seems to be made for flute playing gnomes lol


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## Head_case

I'm practicing my posture. Apparently when I play flute, I lean to one side - the side of the transverse flute. 

Now I thought that was my better side, but apparently it depends on where the sheet music is and it's difficult to get a balance with the sheet music when playing standing. 

I need a taller music stand. Mine seems to be made for flute playing gnomes lol


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## Ingélou

Yes, posture is so important. I can easily hold my violin wrongly & get a sore shoulder or neck as a result. Good luck with the taller music stand. 

When I first returned to the violin, in 2012, I practised standing & all my lessons were the same; but as I'm in my sixties, I found it very wearing & first I started practising sitting down, and then I persuaded my young violin teacher that 'Madame la Marquise' deserved a chair!  The result - I can spend longer practising, but have put on weight & am definitely less fit. Of course, leaping on to this fascinating forum day and night may have something to do with it!


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## JohannesBrahms

I practice a LOT because I enjoy it. When you practice, you should be focused on it. Don't think about something else while you do it, as you will not benefit from it as much. I would say, if you enjoy it, do it as much as you want. I improve pretty fast because I can spend hours just playing without ever considering it work.

Also, I read something interesting a while back. It said that after so many repetitions of something your body will begin to build more muscle and nerve cells to improve it. For example, if you practice a scale for, say, a few hundred times, your body on its own will build cells to improve it. The next day you will find the scale easier to play. If you repeat this for about a week, the scale will be much easier to play. It said that your body does this while you sleep, so getting enough sleep greatly contributes to the effect. I have tried this myself, and it does seem to work.

I hope this helps, and I apologize if it seemed totally moronic.


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## Taggart

Don't be silly, it's just another way of describing how muscle memory works. Great!

Only trouble might be the dreams you get as you work on things - imagine being terrified by Dominant Sevenths after you work on your arpeggios!


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## JohannesBrahms

Taggart said:


> Don't be silly, it's just another way of describing how muscle memory works. Great!
> 
> Only trouble might be the dreams you get as you work on things - imagine being terrified by Dominant Sevenths after you work on your arpeggios!


I was wondering whether someone would realize I was talking about muscle memory. 

Don't worry. Dominant Sevenths don't bother me. Neither do the five voice chords. Now the trills...they terrify me


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## Taggart

JohannesBrahms said:


> ...Now the trills...they terrify me


What have you got against Jadzia Dax? One of my favourite characters on DS9?


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## JohannesBrahms

Taggart said:


> What have you got against Jadzia Dax? One of my favourite characters on DS9?


I regret to inform you that as of now, I have not yet seen DS9. Illogical, I know, but I am unfortunately part human...


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## Taggart

JohannesBrahms said:


> I regret to inform you that as of now, I have not yet seen DS9. Illogical, I know, but I am unfortunately part human...


What's the other part? IDIC . You should learn about trills and their close neighbours the tremolos.


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## Ingélou

How did 'Star Trek' get on to my thread about practice systems - wait, wasn't it that poster called 'Taggart'? 

To return to the subject - I had my violin lesson today. It is at ten am so to get some practice done & have time to drive down there I'm up by 6.45. And it's the day after my dance class. And I'm not getting any younger. Boy, was I stiff and tired this morning. It took 40 minutes at least before the fiddle felt easy in my hand.

What I'd like to ask the few who ever look here is: does swimming help limber fiddlers up? Or yoga? Or would it help to swing my arms about, do star jumps etc before getting down to the nitty gritty. This stiff-arms-and-fingers problem is only going to get worse...


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## Taggart

Ingenue said:


> How did 'Star Trek' get on to my thread about practice systems - wait, wasn't it that poster called 'Taggart'?


Apologies, we got a little derailed.

One thing that gets mentioned in Piano books is the Alexander technique. I wonder if anybody has experience of that?


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## Bone

As I tell my students, practice needs to be built around building technique, learning repertoire, and finding your voice. Doesn't matter how long you do it as long as you are growing musically. I worry that too often students get stuck worrying about the quantity of time rather than evaluating the quality of practice. For this reason, I scrutinize their practice records for evidence that they are investing in good activities and rarely comment on their time commitments. Some students get more out of a well-planned and executed 45 minute session than others who blast thru 3 hour endurance contests with themselves. For myself, I can put in 30 minutes and feel great about it for maintenance; if I have work coming up that requires specific things, I can add another 30 minute session later in the day. At one time in my life I did the eat-sleep-play thing, but that is only necessary if you are planning on making performance your life work - and even then I caution those who would over practice and either physically or mentally exhaust themselves as a matter of routine. Just my opinion and it has worked for numerous North Texas, Julliard, and Eastman students over the years, many of whom are active professionally.


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## Ingélou

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. 

I will tack another query on to this thread: 
I am useless at theory and now that I'm older, it's harder to learn things that are new. I have an instinct for music & I feel first, then analyse my feeling.

Is it worth learning theory if I am a hobby violinist who 'just plays things'? Will improving my understanding enhance my playing or my enjoyment?

If so, should I take exams? Try to teach myself? Learn the piano as a way of gaining a deeper musical education?


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## hreichgott

If you're "a hobby violinist who just plays things," don't bother with exams or learning another instrument, unless passing exams or playing the piano would bring you some enjoyment in and of themselves.

Knowing your rudiments and the very basics of harmony will help you put words and names to things you probably already instinctively feel, and it will speed up your learning. 

Assuming you can tune a violin, you already know what a fifth is, and then if you go on and learn the sounds and names of other intervals like major and minor 6ths it will make you faster and more effective at planning fingerings. I guess it might make you better at intonation too but my string playing is quite rudimentary so that's only a guess.

Knowing sounds and names of chords up to diminished 7ths will turn "why are all these double sharps and naturals here??" into "oh, I am playing a diminished 7th broken chord, I know what that is and what it should sound like." 

Knowing basic harmony will turn "darn, I misssed another C sharp" into "these 8 measures are in the dominant, so I can expect C sharps for these 8 measures and then not after that."

Consider it a possible strategy for making you faster at learning things.


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## Felawechoy

I usually do scales and broken chords that type of stuff for warming up 
And after then I go straight to my pieces


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