# The 2015 College and NFL Football Thread



## Vaneyes

Welcome 2015 pigskin fans. Until college and pro football seasons start proper, here are two news links for your information and convenience. 

College Football news:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/

Pro Football news:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/


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## Vaneyes

R.I.P. Ray Graves (96), former UF Coach and AD. He was a great man in all respects. I'm far from a Florida Gator football fan, but there are good Gators, and Ray was one of them. :angel::tiphat:

http://espn.go.com/college-football...er-florida-gators-coach-ad-ray-graves-dies-96


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## GreenMamba

Chuck Bednarik died not too long ago. RIP.

It's been an interesting NFL off season, and we haven't even hit the draft yet.


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## Vaneyes

"Johnny Football" completed his rehab stay.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial


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## Vaneyes

R.I.P. Lord Nelson (42) :angel:, the only horse to be penalized in a college football game.

http://news.rutgers.edu/news/lord-n...es-away-ripe-old-age-42/20150414#.VTGASPCJjs0


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## Vaneyes

Article regarding CF cupcake scheduling.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/100455/sec-is-slipping-in-nonconference-scheduling


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## Guest

I wish the SEC and PAC-12 would play each other more often.


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## Vaneyes

Some *good* pro football news.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jackson...s-takes-teen-with-cancer-to-high-school-prom/


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## Vaneyes

New England Patriots probably guilty in *Deflategate*. 

"The report cites evidence that McNally took the game balls into a bathroom adjacent to the field at Gillette Stadium and stayed there for about 100 seconds -- an amount of time sufficient to deflate thirteen footballs using a needle. Other evidence included referee Walt Anderson's inability to locate the previously approved footballs at the start of the game -- the first time that had happened to him in 19 years."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...-new-england-patriots-probably-deflated-balls


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## mmsbls

The text messages in the report are absolutely hilarious. Must reading.


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## Vaneyes

Probably the Patriots Super Bowl victory should be vacated, and now awarded to the Seahawks.


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## Ukko

Vaneyes said:


> Probably the Patriots Super Bowl victory should be vacated, and now awarded to the Seahawks.


This after the entire Patriots organization is incarcerated at Guantanamo. No court proceedings required for that.


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## Guest

Some punishment full of hollow symbolism will be imposed to act as a salve to show they really, really, really care about stomping out cheating. And it will be pointless.

Had they cared, they would have done something BEFORE the Super Bowl.

At any rate, this issue, now, ranks just slightly higher than my concern for Justin Bieber's latest antics. Enforcing good behavior in professional sports is laughable in this day and age.


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## Ukko

DrMike said:


> Some punishment full of hollow symbolism will be imposed to act as a salve to show they really, really, really care about stomping out cheating. And it will be pointless.
> 
> Had they cared, they would have done something BEFORE the Super Bowl.
> 
> At any rate, this issue, now, ranks just slightly higher than my concern for Justin Bieber's latest antics. Enforcing good behavior in professional sports is laughable in this day and age.


One of the mumbled about possibilities is sitting Brady for 2 games. That is more than 'hollow symbolism' - his backup being notably inexperienced.

After carefully analyzing all of the offered data I cared to, my conclusion is that the two 'locker room guys' heard Brady say that he preferred the balls to be at the low end of the standard inflation range - and had a mutual hot flash.

The league rule that each team will play using its own balls on offense is patently insane. Maybe it's the league officers - and owners who control them - who ought to be shipped out to Gauntanamo?


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## Guest

Still just hollow symbolism. It isn't quite like college ball, where 2 losses might mean the end of your prospects for playing in the big game.

I agree - the rule as it now stands is idiotic, and just begs for manipulation of the balls. As I recall, Brady was one of those who pushed for the current rules.


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## mmsbls

Supposedly Brady and Manning pushed for the rule. Interestingly, Brady told investigators that he only learned of the rule in 2014. A bit hard to believe given 1) how critical the feel of the ball is for each quarterback and 2) after every rule change the league sends officials to each team to talk specifically to the players and personnel affected by the change.

I've heard a few people say they think Brady will get 2-4 weeks suspension.


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## Ukko

Ha. Brady sits, the Gallipoli kid stars... shades of 2001.


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## Skilmarilion

mmsbls said:


> I've heard a few people say they think Brady will get 2-4 weeks suspension.


Yes, and an absolute joke.

What is the point in retrospective action when they went on to win the Super Bowl?


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## Ukko

Skilmarilion said:


> Yes, and an absolute joke.
> 
> What is the point in retrospective action when they went on to win the Super Bowl?


What is the point of _any_ action* in response to unsubstantiated accusations?

*The obvious _action_ requires the _league_ to purchase, prepare and maintain control of game balls. They need to hire a crew to handle the preparation/maintenance part of that, including a crew member who accompanies the balls to each game. The league can afford that.


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## Vaneyes

Once a cheater, always a cheater? Not like the Patriots hadn't been caught before "breaking the rules".


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## Vaneyes

Infamous Jameis countersues Erica Kinsman. Not a surprise happening, after his recent $25M payday.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2015/5/8/8572681/breaking-jameis-winston-countersues-erica-kinsman


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## Ukko

All a crock o' poo, every one of them. Coach Bill draws that stuff, because he is unusually successful while looking and acting like a first generation Polish immigrant sweeping chips in a machine shop. "If _he_ can do that, why am I such a dork?"


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## Vaneyes

Brady Bunch spanked. No Super Bowl win for Seattle, though. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-suspends-tom-brady-punishes-patriots-for-deflategate/


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## Kivimees

I don't know how crucial this ball pressure is to the game, but if this is considered "cheating", the punishment seems quite light to me.


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## Albert7

Brady is awful to the game; definitely one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL.


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## Kivimees

Albert7 said:


> Brady is awful to the game; definitely one of the reasons I stopped watching the NFL.


"Great game but the Seahawks messed up that final play . Coach had epic fail."

- Albert7 Feb. 2 2015

I would guess pretty much everyone stopped watching the NFL after the Super Bowl.


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## Triplets

Kivimees said:


> "Great game but the Seahawks messed up that final play . Coach had epic fail."
> 
> - Albert7 Feb. 2 2015
> 
> I would guess pretty much everyone stopped watching the NFL after the Super Bowl.


Good one.
My only disappointment is that the punishment doesn't extend to the coach, Belicheat. He has to set the tone for for the whole team, as he has already demonstrated.


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## Ukko

Do any of you whiners understand the concept _Rules Of Evidence? Mob Rule?_

What a crew you are.

Go Patriots!

ut:


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## Vasks

..................


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## Guest

Ukko said:


> Do any of you whiners understand the concept _Rules Of Evidence? Mob Rule?_
> 
> What a crew you are.
> 
> Go Patriots!
> 
> ut:


Of course we do. We also understand gaming the system - avoiding investigation and releasing the findings until well into the off-season to avoid having to make any unpleasant decisions until all the revenue could be milked out of it. It is the same technique that politicians use. When there is suspicion of a scandal, you call for an independent investigation, then declare that you can't possibly comment on it until the ponderous investigation has run its full course, then when everything has died down, and everyone has forgotten or lost interest, you release the results on a Friday afternoon. And then you declare that it is old news, and we should just move on, nothing to see here, punishments will be made, blah blah blah, integrity will be restored.

Boo hoo - Brady will sit 4 games. He still has the Super Bowl ring, doesn't he?

I could care less at this point. Whatever notions of professional athletes as honorable men that I once had died sometime back in the baseball strike back in the 90's. Sure, there are exceptions, but that is all they are. Now we live in the era where 70-80% of these guys, who make more money in one year than the average American will see in their whole life, is bankrupt within 5 years of retirement. So yeah - I can understand that this culture encourages winning at any cost. It can still be entertaining - just don't try and convince me that these guys are exemplary human beings whose sh** doesn't stink. As described above, I rank them about as high on the ethics scale as your typical politician.


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## Guest

I would vacate their Super Bowl win and give it to the Seahawks. Yes - from watching the Super Bowl, it was clear that the Patriots won. But they cheated to get there, so if the less skilled team wins, the Patriots have nobody to blame but themselves. THAT punishment would have some teeth.

Would they have beaten the Colts without deflating the balls? Possibly. But they cheated, so they have surrendered the benefit of the doubt.


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## Ukko

DrMike said:


> I would vacate their Super Bowl win and give it to the Seahawks. Yes - from watching the Super Bowl, it was clear that the Patriots won. But they cheated to get there, so if the less skilled team wins, the Patriots have nobody to blame but themselves. THAT punishment would have some teeth.
> 
> Would they have beaten the Colts without deflating the balls? Possibly. But they cheated, so they have surrendered the benefit of the doubt.


Balderdash. Rules of evidence, doc. It has to be (if justice is to be done) more than hearsay and snot-running speculation, followed by thoroughly unjustified penalties. Personally, I'd like to see Brady sit a couple games, just to see if the sophomore QB has learned anything. He would be getting significant reps with the 1st team, too.


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## Bulldog

Maybe Brady and a few others will start a new professional football league, essentially telling Goodell and company to screw themselves. It happened before, so there's always the possibility.


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## Ukko

Bulldog said:


> Maybe Brady and a few others will start a new professional football league, essentially telling Goodell and company to screw themselves. It happened before, so there's always the possibility.




Entertaining notion but... the American Football League was an owner driven startup, I sort of remember. They offered attractive money to college grads and some not quite star and/or 'mature' NFL players. The AFL had a few hard years before they could be compared to the older league.

Aside from that, Brady is a 'team guy'. He has said he wants to play 4-5 more years, but I dunno how that would hold up if he ain't a New England Patriot.


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## Bulldog

In my little scenario, Brady is a team owner. I'm confident he could get other potential owners to join him.


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## Guest

Ukko said:


> Balderdash. Rules of evidence, doc. It has to be (if justice is to be done) more than hearsay and snot-running speculation, followed by thoroughly unjustified penalties. Personally, I'd like to see Brady sit a couple games, just to see if the sophomore QB has learned anything. He would be getting significant reps with the 1st team, too.


Obviously the NFL has determined that there was cheating - they can't just force star QBs to sit out 4 games and fine a team if they don't feel there is sufficient evidence of cheating. So whether something wrong happened has already been answered to the satisfaction of the NFL. The question is whether the penalty is an appropriate one. I don't think it is. I don't think it is going to make the Patriots even bat an eye. Like I said, at the end of the day, they still have the trophy and the rings. Compare that to, say, a college team being banned from any postseason bowls. Don't want to take away their Super Bowl trophy? Okay. Ban them from this years playoffs, should they have a good enough record.

The NFL believes they cheated. Regardless of what you feel, that is what the NFL decided when they looked at the evidence. So the question is, do you really believe that cheating should be punished, and if so, how severe? I think it should be severe enough to really make a team think twice - make the penalty onerous enough that it won't happen again.


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## Ukko

DrMike said:


> So the question is, do you really believe that cheating should be punished, and if so, how severe? I think it should be severe enough to really make a team think twice - make the penalty onerous enough that it won't happen again.


That ain't "the question", as you probably know somewhere deep inside. Do they have any actual evidence that Brady cheated? Nope. If they did, they'd have made sure the press knew all the details. Aside from the two locker room guys, they got nothing. Doc, you are one one the guilty ones; guilty of wishful thinking.


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## Vaneyes

*Florida State* '15 preview.* Golson* could help the rebuild year. His Monday announcement will be made another day...more schools to visit.

http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/81973/florida-state-seminoles-preview

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12908174


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## Vaneyes

NE Patriots will not appeal Deflategate punishment. How many more transgressions before this unruly team is booted out of the NFL?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...ngland-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

Related:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-england-patriots-scandals-from-spies-to-snowplows/


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## Vaneyes

QB Everett Golson's going to Florida State, but with plenty of questions, including Notre Dame exam cheating ('academic dishonesty'), recent turnovers, and his height (6 feet).

He's graduated from Notre Dame (Business major), so maybe his "academic dishonesty" won't be held against him...unless one day he develops a penchant for free crablegs.

Sean Maguire is the Seminoles current starting QB, and he's shorter than Golson, so who knows. I wasn't expecting more than a balanced offense with popgun passes, anyway. 

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2015/...s-florida-state-notre-dame-quarterback-qb-fsu

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...te-seminoles-notre-dame-fighting-irish-051915

Related:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9899850/notre-dame-suspension-due-poor-judgment-test


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## Vaneyes

Big breaking news, NFL changes PAT rule.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12915634/nfl-change-extra-point-kicks-longer-distance


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## Bulldog

Vaneyes said:


> NE Patriots will not appeal Deflategate punishment. How many more transgressions before this unruly team is booted out of the NFL?


Ten sounds like a reasonable number.


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## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> Big breaking news, NFL changes PAT rule.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12915634/nfl-change-extra-point-kicks-longer-distance


I think this is a good idea. The extra point is rather automatic. I don't know if the NFL and the college leagues use the same system, but for some reason the 2-point try seems much more common in the college games (at least to my inexperienced eyes). Why would this be? The 2-point try is much more interesting.


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## elgar's ghost

Re: the PAT. This is one aspect where I think the rugby equivalent has the edge as the conversion kick has to be taken parallel to the point where the ball was originally touched down. 

In US football where the ball does not have to be actually 'touched down' this would instead mean where the player scoring the touchdown actually stops, or is stopped, after taking the ball into the end zone or catching the ball there. So the 'reward' for the kicker of the PAT would be as a result of how close the scorer of the touchdown can actually get to the posts, thus making the angle easier.

One theoretical drawback for US kickers would be that there has never been any need to impart curve on the ball when kicking for points as kicks are always taken from directly in front of the posts - in rugby, curve in flight is habitually used by the kicker to 'draw the ball in' towards the posts for kicks where the angle is more acute (although this isn't possible for a left-footed kicker attempting to score from the left side of the field, and vice versa for a right-footed player).

Any thoughts?


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## Kivimees

elgars ghost said:


> Re: the PAT. This is one aspect where I think the rugby equivalent has the edge as the conversion kick has to be taken parallel to the point where the ball was originally touched down.
> 
> In US football where the ball does not have to be actually 'touched down' this would instead mean where the player scoring the touchdown actually stops, or is stopped, after taking the ball into the end zone or catching the ball there. So the 'reward' for the kicker of the PAT would be as a result of how close the scorer of the touchdown can actually get to the posts, thus making the angle easier.
> 
> One theoretical drawback for US kickers would be that there has never been any need to impart curve on the ball when kicking for points as kicks are always taken from directly in front of the posts - in rugby, curve in flight is habitually used by the kicker to 'draw the ball in' towards the posts for kicks where the angle is more acute (although this isn't possible for a left-footed kicker attempting to score from the left side of the field, and vice versa for a right-footed player).
> 
> Any thoughts?


I like this idea! This way, the extra point on a touchdown scored on a pass into the corner of the endzone would be tried at a very difficult angle. I don't know the exact measurement involved here, but the angle may be so sharp that a 2-point try might be the more reasonable option.

(Now let's wait for the fallout as we foreigners stick our fingers into America's game. :lol


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## elgar's ghost

Kivimees said:


> I like this idea! This way, the extra point on a touchdown scored on a pass into the corner of the endzone would be tried at a very difficult angle. I don't know the exact measurement involved here, but the angle may be so sharp that a 2-point try might be the more reasonable option.
> 
> (Now let's wait for the fallout as we foreigners stick our fingers into America's game. :lol


Difficult angles could be slightly reduced from attempting the kick from a longer distance from the end zone than usual but the temptation to go for a 2-pointer in such a situation might make things interesting - at least there is an option. I don't usually advocate rule changes for an aspect of a game that has been accepted for so long but I think this is one instance where the PAT scenario could be sexed up a little.


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## Ukko

It's clear that you furriners don't understand the game.


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## Vaneyes

More on Everett Golson.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2015/5/20/8630201/notre-dame-expert-everett-golson-florida-state-fsu


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## Vaneyes

Ramsgate, Spygate, Deflategate, Hernandezgate, etc., etc. That's enough, give 'em the heave-ho. Apparently, the New England habit goes way back...

'Deflategate, Roaring '20s Style: New England's 1st Controversial NFL Champions'

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-new-englands-1st-controversial-nfl-champions


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## elgar's ghost

Ukko said:


> It's clear that you furriners don't understand the game.


Obviously. Guess I'd better drag my sorry heretical *** back to Limeyville. :lol:


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## Vaneyes

elgars ghost said:


> Obviously. Guess I'd better drag my sorry heretical *** back to Limeyville. :lol:


"Say what?"


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## Avey

I was going to start a thread, but this may be the place to ask first:

Does anyone play fantasy football? If so, would anyone be interested in participating in a TC league? 

Of course, this depends on interest level, but I was just thinking that we have plenty of football fans here, thus we may have plenty that are interested in the fantasy game to get a TC league together. That would be great fun.

Just wanted to throw it out there. Do let me know.


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## Proms Fanatic

I enjoy watching NFL but I have no proper knowledge of any of the players or anything - so not for me I'm afraid.


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## Vaneyes

Proms Fanatic said:


> I enjoy watching NFL but I have no proper knowledge of any of the players or anything - so not for me I'm afraid.


PF, we'll hafta carry on without you, but don't hesitate to contribute should you change yo' mind.


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## Vaneyes

'NFL upholds four-game suspension of Tom Brady' 'League says Brady's decision to destroy his cellphone before meeting with investigators was key in their decision'

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-upholds-four-game-suspension-tom-brady-deflategate/


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## Skilmarilion

Avey said:


> I was going to start a thread, but this may be the place to ask first:
> 
> Does anyone play fantasy football? If so, would anyone be interested in participating in a TC league?
> 
> Of course, this depends on interest level, but I was just thinking that we have plenty of football fans here, thus we may have plenty that are interested in the fantasy game to get a TC league together. That would be great fun.
> 
> Just wanted to throw it out there. Do let me know.


Yes dude. Just yes. :tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

'Brady friend says phone change part of routine'

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13340531/friend-tom-brady-says-phone-change-part-routine

'Mike Leach (Washington State head coach)doesn't know what the big deal is about Deflategate' http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/...t-know-what-the-big-deal-is-about-deflategate


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## Vaneyes

Preseason USA Today Coaches Poll.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings

#1 ranked Ohio State has 4 suspended players in its Sept. 7 opener at Virginia Tech.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-smith-jalin-marshall-dontre-wilson/30882787/


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## Vaneyes

Seahawks QB agrees to extension for $87.6M. They overpaid, but what the hell, Paul Allen is the owner and the games sell out. It's a gold mine.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...sell-wilson-agrees-extension-seattle-seahawks


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## Vaneyes

CF player family stipend slowly creeps upward. 100%. 

http://espn.go.com/college-football...travel-stipend-families-participating-players


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## Vaneyes

'The Indispensables: The 10 College Football Players Who Will Prove Most Vital to Their Teams in 2015'

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2...bles-jalen-ramsey-sua-cravens-byron-marshall/


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## Vaneyes

'Antonio Cromartie: Tom Brady should have been fined, not suspended'

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...punished-antonio-cromartie-new-york-jets-says

Oh, yes, Cromartie has shown good judgment over the years...

NFL.com wire reports, 2010/12--Cromartie has had his share of legal troubles. He has dealt with at least five paternity suits; he has fathered seven children by several woman. Cromartie also had a bar patron claim that the cornerback hit him in the head with a champagne bottle hours after the team's victory at Denver last November. San Diego police later said there wasn't enough evidence to prove the claim.


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## Vaneyes

Geez, with teammates and friends like this, who needs enemies?

'Brandon Marshall says he was only Bear to hold Jay Cutler accountable'

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...y-chicago-bears-player-hold-jay-cutler-liable

I'm not a big Cutler fan. I'm not even a small Cutler fan. But, this?

"I don't know if he has been hit too many times. He is one of the most-hit quarterbacks. That can take a toll on you."


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## Vaneyes

USC HC Sarkisian, trying his best to get fired.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/coll...rkisian-apologizes-behavior-usc-trojans-event


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## Skilmarilion

So who do people want to see starting for the Eagles in Week 1?

- Bradford
- Sanchez
- Tebow
- Donovan McNabb
- None of the above
- All of the above

:tiphat:


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## Bulldog

Bradford will start but get badly injured in the 1st game. Then Sanchez will check in with his usual pathetic performances. Tebow will be the man for the rest of the season.


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## Avey

skilmarilion said:


> so who do people want to see starting for the eagles in week 1?
> 
> - bradford
> - sanchez
> - tebow
> - donovan mcnabb
> - none of the above
> - all of the above
> 
> :tiphat:


*tebowtebowtebowtebowtebow*


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## Vaneyes

Football brethren, Week 1 of CF is upon us.

First matchups on Thursday Sept. 3, with powderpuff teams supplied for G-Tech and AZ. The TCU @ Gophers could be interesting, though the mighty Horned Frogs (2) are heavily favored.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/scoreboard

Monday Sept. 7, #1 Buckeyes @ V-Tech. In addition to trying to applecart the Buckeyes in consecutive seasons, the loveable Hokies have something else to play for...

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-slain-tv-journalists-alison-parker-adam-ward


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## Kivimees

I see that there are lots of games on Saturday starting at a very reasonable 7PM (my local time). Perhaps I can listen to the Saturday Symphony while watching a game _sans_ sound.

Hopefully realdealblues will select a real hard-hitting, bone-crunching symphony. :lol:


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## scratchgolf

Skilmarilion said:


> So who do people want to see starting for the Eagles in Week 1?
> 
> - Bradford
> - Sanchez
> - Tebow
> - Donovan McNabb
> - None of the above
> - All of the above
> 
> :tiphat:


As an Eagles fan, I consider your omission of Randall Cunningham criminal. As a Mendelssohn fan, I forgive you immediately. Randall might still be able to beat those others to back up Bradford. IF Bradford stays healthy this year, watch out. He's in a system where he should absolutely thrive.


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## Vaneyes

scratchgolf said:


> As an Eagles fan, I consider your omission of Randall Cunningham criminal. As a Mendelssohn fan, I forgive you immediately. Randall might still be able to beat those others to back up Bradford. IF Bradford stays healthy this year, watch out. He's in a system where he should absolutely thrive.


Which Philadelphia Eagles are classical music buffs?


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## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> I see that there are lots of games on Saturday starting at a very reasonable 7PM (my local time). *Perhaps I can listen to the Saturday Symphony while watching a game sans sound.
> *
> Hopefully realdealblues will select a real hard-hitting, bone-crunching symphony. :lol:


"Now we're talkin'."


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## Vaneyes

JoePa ends up on a beer can. I guess that's appropriate legacy for someone who looked the other way. 

http://espn.go.com/college-football...name-selling-quickly-brewer-tries-keep-demand

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf...ve-exceeded-early-expectations-170719569.html

Sue Paterno's designated charity for a share of the proceeds? I think we would have heard, if it was for child abuse victims.


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## Vaneyes

Cheater Brady's suspension is lifted by a stupid judge. NFL will appeal. If the latest ruling stands, the inmates will be in control of the asylum. Some wags would argue that that's been the case for a long time. 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/story...xposed-again-tom-brady-leaders-face-questions


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## Ukko

Vaneyes said:


> Cheater Brady's suspension is lifted by a stupid judge. NFL will appeal. If the latest ruling stands, the inmates will be in control of the asylum. Some wags would argue that that's been the case for a long time.
> 
> http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/story...xposed-again-tom-brady-leaders-face-questions


Brady's back! The rule of law triumphs again!


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## mmsbls

Anybody know why the Brady ruling was overturned? I don't mean in general but the specifics.

Interesting player survey by ESPN:

72% felt that Patriots deflated footballs 
16% were upset that Patriots deflated footballs
42% feel that Patriots are cheaters
48% believe that deflated footballs impact outcome of the game
1.5 games is the average suspension players felt Brady should get


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## Bulldog

Vaneyes said:


> Cheater Brady's suspension is lifted by a stupid judge.


The judge did the right thing. He concluded that there was no evidence that Brady had anything to do with footballs deflated below the mandated minimum. EVIDENCE - that's what counts in a court of law. The NFL had no evidence, just a constant attitude that it can do whatever it pleases. Roger needs to go; he makes bad decisions on a regular basis. He's the stupid one.


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## Vaneyes

Bulldog said:


> The judge did the right thing. He concluded that there was no evidence that Brady had anything to do with footballs deflated below the mandated minimum. EVIDENCE - that's what counts in a court of law. The NFL had no evidence, just a constant attitude that it can do whatever it pleases. Roger needs to go; he makes bad decisions on a regular basis. He's the stupid one.


Not only was there evidence, Brady also destroyed evidence. Need I remind, this is a professional football league where teams are required to play by the rules, not a court of law.


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## Ukko

Bulldog has the 'specifics'. The NFL had *zero* evidence that Brady did anything more than hinder the investigation. The locker room guys that 'probably' deflated some footballs he considered to be teammates. Teammates cannot be denounced for supporting the team, foolish though that 'support' was. The football team has been successful since 2001, with the same head coach and quarterback. Jealousy tends to ignore evidence if it is inconvenient.


----------



## Vaneyes

Patriots have a long history of cheating. They should be booted from the NFL.


----------



## mmsbls

I just saw an ESPN segment that listed 3 key points in the decision:

- Brady had no notice that he could be suspended for general awareness of ball deflation
- The steroid policy is not a fair comparison for discipline
- Brady's awareness of possible deflation is not a fair basis for suspension

I don't think this ruling had anything whatsoever to do with deciding whether Brady actually had something to do with the deflation. The judge was simply deciding whether the NFL acted properly in deciding to suspend Brady.


----------



## Bulldog

Vaneyes said:


> Not only was there evidence, Brady also destroyed evidence. Need I remind, this is a professional football league where teams are required to play by the rules, not a court of law.


Everything said above is wrong. You're probably better off sticking to the golf courses, and I'll remind you that the court of law trumps any sports league. As for evidence, where's your meat?


----------



## Vaneyes

Bulldog said:


> *Everything said above is wrong*. You're probably better off sticking to the golf courses, and I'll remind you that the court of law trumps any sports league. As for evidence, where's your meat?


How so? Clarify.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Vaneyes said:


> Patriots have a long history of cheating. They should be booted from the NFL.


Hopefully not before the Giants beat them in the Superbowl for a third time... :lol:


----------



## Vaneyes

mmsbls said:


> I just saw an ESPN segment that listed 3 key points in the decision:
> 
> - Brady had no notice that he could be suspended for general awareness of ball deflation
> - The steroid policy is not a fair comparison for discipline
> - Brady's awareness of possible deflation is not a fair basis for suspension
> 
> *I don't think this ruling had anything whatsoever to do with deciding whether Brady actually had something to do with the deflation.* The judge was simply deciding whether the NFL acted properly in deciding to suspend Brady.


Obviously not, and that's why the ruling is flawed, and should be successfully appealed. The Patriots don't just smell like and look like cheaters.


----------



## Bulldog

Vaneyes said:


> How so? Clarify.


You're a smart man; I trust you can figure it out. And where's your evidence that Brady cheated?


----------



## Vaneyes

No surprises last night in CF Week 1 openers. Harbaugh lost his first game as Michigan HC, and the Gophers kept it respectable against the Horned Frogs.

South Carolina's 4 point win over North Carolina probably says Coach Spurrier's in for another rough season. Oh well, he still has his Augusta National membership. See coach on the next Feherty show (Golf Channel).

Sept. 3 scores...

http://www.ncaa.com/scoreboard/football/fbs


----------



## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> Not only was there evidence, Brady also destroyed evidence. Need I remind, this is a professional football league where teams are required to play by the rules, not a court of law.


I don't know enough about this situation to comment on it specifically, but it does seems odd to me that league is somehow not allowed to run itself, if you understand what I mean.


----------



## mmsbls

Kivimees said:


> I don't know enough about this situation to comment on it specifically, but it does seems odd to me that league is somehow not allowed to run itself, if you understand what I mean.


In general the NFL can run itself. For example the NFL fined the Patriots for tampering with the balls, and this fine has not been contested. The issue with suspending Brady is that he loses salary for each game he misses, and there is a legal contract (collective bargaining agreement) between players and the league. So if the league suspends a player improperly from a legal standpoint, the player (or players association) can contest the suspension.


----------



## Kivimees

mmsbls said:


> In general the NFL can run itself. For example the NFL fined the Patriots for tampering with the balls, and this fine has not been contested. The issue with suspending Brady is that he loses salary for each game he misses, and there is a legal contract (collective bargaining agreement) between players and the league. So if the league suspends a player improperly from a legal standpoint, the player (or players association) can contest the suspension.


Yes, I understand what you say. The difficulty as I see it is that the league would like to punish the team for what it sees as a team infraction. But apart from the fine (which doesn't really hurt the team), the only "team punishment" it can see is to punish a single player. If the situation were like European football (where schedules are balanced in that each team plays against every other team an equal number of times), a "team punishment" would be easy - let the Patriots start the season with one (or two or three) losses. This of course doesn't work with the "unbalanced" schedule of the NFL (teams in other divisions would be affected differently under this scenario). So the "team punishment" the league would like to give seems impossible.


----------



## Bulldog

With the deflated football issue resolved for now, it's time to concentrate on the actual games which start this coming Thursday. As it happens, the first game matches New England against the Steelers. I assume that the Patriots haters will be looking for some funky business from Brady and company. If the Pats were just a normal team, all the controversy would likely harm their performance. However, being a super team, I predict that the Pats will win a fairly close game; it won't be easy dealing with the Steelers and that dynamic offense.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> I don't know enough about this situation to comment on it specifically, but it does seems odd to me that league is somehow not allowed to run itself, if you understand what I mean.


I do understand what you mean, and that's how things were done for decades. This ever-increasingly namby pamby world is trying to rearrange those fundamentals, as in sports honesty.

The ruling yesterday by a Democratic (party) judge basically ruled in favor of labor (vs management). IOW ignoring the crux of the case, whether or not the Patriots QB knowingly broke NFL rules, or cheated.

NFL appeal explanation...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/nfl-could-win-brady-appeal/


----------



## Ukko

Kivimees said:


> Yes, I understand what you say. The difficulty as I see it is that the league would like to punish the team for what it sees as a team infraction. But apart from the fine (which doesn't really hurt the team), the only "team punishment" it can see is to punish a single player. If the situation were like European football (where schedules are balanced in that each team plays against every other team an equal number of times), a "team punishment" would be easy - let the Patriots start the season with one (or two or three) losses. This of course doesn't work with the "unbalanced" schedule of the NFL (teams in other divisions would be affected differently under this scenario). So the "team punishment" the league would like to give seems impossible.


Hah. You appear to be saying that the commissioner was using Brady as the scapegoat, since he otherwise had only draft selections and dollars to take from the team. Could be. You do realize that the league owners, who as a group control the commissioner's job, are members of the Multimillionaires' Club Of the Western World? There is a limit to how much 'authority to damage' will be allowed a mere employee, for what was after all a minor misdemeanor by low level team employees.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> Yes, I understand what you say. The difficulty as I see it is that the league would like to punish the team for what it sees as a team infraction. But apart from the fine (which doesn't really hurt the team), the only "team punishment" it can see is to punish a single player. If the situation were like European football (where schedules are balanced in that each team plays against every other team an equal number of times), a "team punishment" would be easy - let the Patriots start the season with one (or two or three) losses. This of course doesn't work with the "unbalanced" schedule of the NFL (teams in other divisions would be affected differently under this scenario). So the "team punishment" the league would like to give seems impossible.


Buffalo News, May 12, 2015--The rest of the punishment from the "DeflateGate" scandal calls for the Patriots to be fined $1 million, lose a first-round draft pick in 2016, and a fourth-round choice in 2017. If the Pats wind up with more than one selection in either of those rounds, the earlier pick will be forfeited.

I called for vacating their Super Bowl victory, but in lieu of, I wouldn't mind them starting the season with two losses. Of course that's not going to happen.

Excessive punishment might hurt the cheating darlings in this ever-increasingly namby pamby world. The Patriots are serial cheaters, and need to be dealt with severely.


----------



## Vaneyes

Ukko said:


> Hah. You appear to be saying that the commissioner was using Brady as the scapegoat, since he otherwise had only draft selections and dollars to take from the team. Could be. You do realize that the league owners, who as a group control the commissioner's job, are members of the Multimillionaires' Club Of the Western World? There is a limit to how much 'authority to damage' will be allowed a mere employee, for what was after all a minor misdemeanor by low level team employees.


Brady's not a scapegoat. He's an integral part of a well-oiled cheating machine.


----------



## Bulldog

Vaneyes said:


> Brady's not a scapegoat. He's an integral part of a well-oiled cheating machine.


Will you be watching the machine's first game Thursday? With your keen eye for detail, you might notice some infraction that you can report to NFL management.


----------



## Kivimees

Ukko said:


> Hah. You appear to be saying that the commissioner was using Brady as the scapegoat, since he otherwise had only draft selections and dollars to take from the team. Could be.


I don't know enough about how the league is run to say it is the commissioner or a collection of individuals, but it does seem to my (naive) eyes that perhaps Brady is being punished to punish the team as a whole.



> You do realize that the league owners, who as a group control the commissioner's job, are members of the Multimillionaires' Club Of the Western World?


No, I don't know enough about this. I just enjoy watching the game - a game whose rules I am still trying to understand.


----------



## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> I called for vacating their Super Bowl victory, but in lieu of, I wouldn't mind them starting the season with two losses. Of course that's not going to happen.


But this is exactly the point of my earlier post: to give New England two losses at the start gives the other teams in their division (Jets, Miami, Buffalo, who else?) a bigger advantage than teams outside of this division, doesn't it?


----------



## Bulldog

Kivimees said:


> But this is exactly the point of my earlier post: to give New England two losses at the start gives the other teams in their division (Jets, Miami, Buffalo, who else?) a bigger advantage than teams outside of this division, doesn't it?


It's probably best not to pay attention to ridiculous suggestions such as giving the Pats two automatic losses or vacating the Superbowl victory. There are lots of folks who display hostility when they hear the name "Patriots"; it's just a case of jealousy that the Pats have been the best team over the past 12 years or so.


----------



## Vaneyes

Nine more CF games tonight. I'll be watching to see if Baylor drops the megaton or kiloton on SMU. I'll also be interested in how the new Washington Huskies perform at Boise State.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Am I the only who doesn't get why the "law" has anything to do with all this?

Goodell didn't give Brady a bloody prison sentence. If he feels in any way that what Brady did damaged the integrity of the game, then Brady deserved to be suspended from his employment. This applies to any type of employment, and not just this "Hollywood" world of NFL and media hype.

Now the problem was that Goodell hadn't acted, and sure, he couldn't give out a suspension without having evidence. That's fair. But then Brady magically deleted his phone, an item required in the investigation. In such circumstances, you can't do that. Surely. It implies guilt. How could it not imply guilt to Goodell. 

For once Roger actually bucked the trend and went after the untouchables, the media's darlings that are Kraft, Brady, Belichick and their entire cheating ring. Goodell runs the NFL, and no judge should be able to overturn a decision that was in fact made with reason and diligence and in the good spirit of the game, just like that.

No. Of all the things that Goodell deserves to be criticised for, this should never have been one of them.

Steelers-Pats next week? No thanks. I prefer football with fully inflated footballs.

Go Rams.


----------



## Avey

Skilmarilion said:


> Go Rams.


WaAAAHT!? Where did that come from? Haha. Because they visit London?!


----------



## Skilmarilion

Avey said:


> WaAAAHT!? Where did that come from? Haha. Because they visit London?!


Not really. It's more a case of they're my team. :tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

First CF Saturday, and I'm thinking both Auburn (Louisville) and Alabama (Wisconsin) could be upset.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Avey said:


> *tebowtebowtebowtebowtebow*


Well, this didn't last long did it.

Two points here:

i) It is actually quite unbelievable that he hasn't had at least a 3rd-string gig with someone in the league since that playoff run he had with the Broncos (I won't even consider his time with NYJ as they more or less treated him like he wasn't there)

ii) Even more incredible that the Jags haven't given him a go just to sell some more tickets. Like, they could really do with selling more tickets.


----------



## EricABQ

So Washington State lost to Portland State in game they were favored by 31 points.

31 points?

If you ever see anyone getting 31 points against Washington State, you should ask yourself two questions:

1. Do I like money?
2. Would I like some for free?

If the answer to both questions is "yes," fly to Vegas, bet on the team getting the 31, and enjoy all that free money.


----------



## Vaneyes

EricABQ said:


> So Washington State lost to Portland State in game they were favored by 31 points.
> 
> 31 points?
> 
> If you ever see anyone getting 31 points against Washington State, you should ask yourself two questions:
> 
> 1. Do I like money?
> 2. Would I like some for free?
> 
> If the answer to both questions is "yes," fly to Vegas, bet on the team getting the 31, and enjoy all that free money.


And PS gets $525K, too.


----------



## Vaneyes

Skilmarilion said:


> Well, this didn't last long did it.
> 
> Two points here:
> 
> i) It is actually quite unbelievable that he hasn't had at least a 3rd-string gig with someone in the league since that playoff run he had with the Broncos (I won't even consider his time with NYJ as they more or less treated him like he wasn't there)
> 
> ii) Even more incredible that the Jags haven't given him a go just to sell some more tickets. Like, they could really do with selling more tickets.


Three options for Tebow--talking head, missionary work, Canadian Football League.


----------



## Ukko

Vaneyes said:


> Three options for Tebow--talking head, missionary work, Canadian Football League.


He probably doesn't have the CFL option - as a QB anyway.


----------



## Vaneyes

Ukko said:


> He probably doesn't have the CFL option - as a QB anyway.


Saskatchewan 0-9 awaits.


----------



## Guest

Great college game day! My two teams came out on top!

BYU had that great Hail Mary to top the 'Huskers! 

And then the Tide rolled over Wisconsin!


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Great college game day! My two teams came out on top!
> 
> BYU had that great Hail Mary to top the 'Huskers!
> 
> And then the Tide rolled over Wisconsin!


Auburn & Louisville was a smelly game. #6 will hafta seriously regroup to take down LSU in two weeks. If they manage both those things, their next challenge isn't until the end of October.

'Bama looks good with Coker. In two weeks, they meet pesty Ole Miss. If they get by the Rebs, they'll have less October downtime than Auburn.

I keep waiting for Nebraska's rebirth. One step forward, then two back. Big Red followers deserve better than ***** happens.

Positive things for rebuilding Florida State yesterday. ND transfer Golson got on track in the 2nd quarter and never looked back. The Noles may have seen the last of lame first halves, that hobbled them in '14. There's no strong opposition for another month, and that should help with healthy and ready.


----------



## Vasks

DrMike said:


> !
> 
> And then the Tide rolled over Wisconsin!


Or to be more specific: Running back Derrick Henry really rolled over the Badgers ;-)


----------



## Vasks

Vaneyes said:


> Positive things for rebuilding Florida State yesterday. ND transfer Golson got on track in the 2nd quarter and never looked back. The Noles may have seen the last of lame first halves, that hobbled them in '14. There's no strong opposition for another month, and that should help with healthy and ready.


It will take time to find out for sure that the defense is better than last year and that Golson will not be a turnover machine like he was last year.


----------



## Vaneyes

#1 Buckeyes down by 3 at the half. Can they lose to the Hokies again, and go on to win the National Championship?


----------



## Vaneyes

'Time for FBS programs to stop playing FCS teams'

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-holgorsen-says-fbs-schools-play-fcs-programs


----------



## Vasks

This final quote is important:
_"Don't get me wrong," Holgorsen said Tuesday. "I can't blame our schedule-makers for doing what everyone else in the country does -- and I know these matchups are huge paydays for these little schools -- but these games count as wins for the FBS schools."_

I think each big school must play two little schools but that's it. Just two for the season. The little schools need the money and love dreaming about the slim chance to take down a giant. Remember the buzz when Appalachian State took down Michigan? So WV is wrong to stop taking on little schools, IMO.


----------



## Guest

I discussed this with a co-worker who is far more into sports than I am, and he thinks this is just the WV coach trying to look superior. Maybe a win against an FCS school gets counted, but not that much. If you have two schools, all other things being equal, and one of them played more FCS schools than the other, the computer models that calculate rankings aren't going to weigh those FCS wins equally. The only way it would make a big impact is if the FBS team loses. And rightly so. And when it comes to picking the teams for the playoffs, then the committee is not going to weigh FCS wins as highly as FBS wins. I think it is mostly a non-issue, and it helps out the smaller schools. But I do think there need to be more non-conference games against other major FBS teams.


----------



## Vaneyes

Potential playoff schools recognize ranking advantage in ridding themselves of cupcake scheduling, and adjustments have started in some cases.

It doesn't say a lot for a big football program to schedule FCS teams several years in advance. There can be "emergency" situations, such as when West Virginia in 2012 backed out of a scheduled home and home with Florida State. West Virginia likely had to pay Florida State re-booking fees, but they saved getting beat twice.

The money does help the little guys, that's for sure. Such as paying for their entire athletic programs.


----------



## Bulldog

The Patriots started well out of the gate, beating a fine Pittsburgh team. I remain concerned about both defenses.


----------



## Vaneyes

Seahawks horrid late game losses continue.


----------



## Vaneyes

NYG should fire their coach, and Eagles better call Tebow. :lol:


----------



## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> NYG should fire their coach, and Eagles better call Tebow. :lol:


Should have kept Foles. :tiphat:

STL is 1-0 baby. Next up, WSH. Could this be the year?!?! (where we final go above .500, lol)


----------



## Ukko

The Pats tend to struggle in Buffalo anyway, and this may be the year the Bills show that defense can make a team Super. This Sunday could be an_ Indicator_.


----------



## Bulldog

Ukko said:


> The Pats tend to struggle in Buffalo anyway, and this may be the year the Bills show that defense can make a team Super. This Sunday could be an_ Indicator_.


I think Pats vs. Bills is the game of the week. It will be a very tough challenge for New England, and I'll be very interested to see how the new Bills quarterback fares after his outstanding game 1 against Indy.


----------



## Vaneyes

Reading about Rutgers head coach Kyle Flood's spanking. 3 game suspension and $50K fine. Said he didn't know that a coach is not supposed to contact a faculty member about his players grades. Ahem, he was an offensive line coach and assistant head coach for five years prior to being elevated to head coach in 2012. Some local wags are saying the school operates on the cheap, and is fearful of letting this "one of the lowest paid coaches in the Big 10" go. Coach hired a high-priced agent last year to negotiate his contract. They were successful, $1.25m this year, with graduated increases to 2019. And coach now can receive a $1.4M buyout. Prior to the agent's arm-twisting it was just a $500k buyout. Reasonable success, in spite of some team badboys. 24 - 17.


----------



## Vaneyes

*Clemson -5 *@ Louisville The Cards are in the wilderness.
*Rutgers +9* @ Penn State The Knights win one for the goober.
*Florida State -8* @ Boston College BC's puffed up about blowing Howard.
Northwestern @ *Duke -3 * Close game.
Auburn @* LSU -7 *Bengal Tigers should win big.
*Ole Miss +7* @ 'Bama I like Coker, but he'll need more than style in this one.
*Nebraska +3* @ Miami Cornhuskers have good Sunshine State memories.
*Georgia Tech -2* @ Notre Dame The Domers won't know what hit them.
*South Florida +7* @ Maryland USF's well coached and deserve a little more respect.
Florida @ *Kentucky +3 *Moonshiners squeeze oranges.
*Stanford +10* @ USC Cardinal wake-up.
*BYU +17* @UCLA Way too many points given to the Cougars. Bruins get sandbagged.


----------



## Selby

EricABQ said:


> So Washington State lost to Portland State in game they were favored by 31 points.
> 
> 31 points?
> 
> If you ever see anyone getting 31 points against Washington State, you should ask yourself two questions:
> 
> 1. Do I like money?
> 2. Would I like some for free?
> 
> If the answer to both questions is "yes," fly to Vegas, bet on the team getting the 31, and enjoy all that free money.


Having gone to Portland State I'll be the first to say that no one - NO ONE - considered that a safe bet.


----------



## Selby

Vaneyes said:


> Seahawks horrid late game losses continue.


Yeah, it was painful. The worst part is how it will complicate the ongoing Kam Chancellor crap.


----------



## Vasks

CFB - The State of Florida did well, the state of Alabama didn't


----------



## Vaneyes

*Some surprises, as always. 5 - 6 - 1. Re 6 losses, Clemson won by 3. KY lost by 5. G-Tech stunk it up, as did Rutgers, Duke and South Florida. **

L - Clemson -5 @ Louisville The Cards are in the wilderness.
L - Rutgers +9 @ Penn State The Knights win one for the goober.
W - Florida State -8 @ Boston College BC's puffed up about blowing Howard.
L - Northwestern @ Duke -3 Close game.
W - Auburn @ LSU -7 Bengal Tigers should win big.
W - Ole Miss +7 @ 'Bama I like Coker, but he'll need more than style in this one.
T - Nebraska +3 @ Miami Cornhuskers have good Sunshine State memories.
L - Georgia Tech -2 @ Notre Dame The Domers won't know what hit them.
L - South Florida +7 @ Maryland USF's well coached and deserve a little more respect.
L - Florida @ Kentucky +3 Moonshiners squeeze oranges.
W - Stanford +10 @ USC Cardinal wake-up.
W - BYU +17 @UCLA Way too many points given to the Cougars. Bruins get sandbagged.*


----------



## Vaneyes

Ohio St. @ *Indiana +22 *22?I smell a raw score upset. 
*Texas Tech +17* @ Baylor Bears will score less than usual, but win.
*Florida St. -20 *@ Wake Forest Seminoles finally get it all together.
*Alabama +1.5* @ GA Coach Satan should bounce back in a bigun.
*Ole Miss -7* @ FLA Gators better run fo' cover.
Miss. St. @ *Texas A&M -5.5 *This post Johnny Football team's not bad.
*Notre Dame +2* @ Clemson Domers win easily. Tigers hyped too high.


----------



## Kivimees

NY Jets vs Miami

NFL at 4:30 PM! It's like I'm enjoying the game with Vaneyes in his livingroom.

(Another beer in this direction, Van!)


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> NY Jets vs Miami
> 
> NFL at 4:30 PM! It's like I'm enjoying the game with Vaneyes in his livingroom.
> 
> (Another beer in this direction, Van!)


You got it, K-Man. With Genoa salami, popcorn, extra crunchy potato chips.

Re NFL, I'll watch Packers @ Niners, and 'Boys @ Saints.


----------



## Vaneyes

Vaneyes said:


> Ohio St. @ *Indiana +22 *22?I smell a raw score upset.
> *Texas Tech +17* @ Baylor Bears will score less than usual, but win.
> *Florida St. -20 *@ Wake Forest Seminoles finally get it all together.
> *Alabama +1.5* @ GA Coach Satan should bounce back in a bigun.
> *Ole Miss -7* @ FLA Gators better run fo' cover.
> Miss. St. @ *Texas A&M -5.5 *This post Johnny Football team's not bad.
> *Notre Dame +2* @ Clemson Domers win easily. Tigers hyped too high.


A kissin' yo' sis result. 3 - 3 - 1.

Florida found itself, and Florida State is destined to go 6 - 6, if they don't get better fast. I hope Coach Jimbo has another QB ready.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings

I agree with the Big 12 rankings bumps. Baylor, TCU, Texas A&M all look good at this juncture. And Ohio State, Michigan State could be pretenders.

Utah is doin' it out West.

With Coker now entrenched, 'Bama should inch up to a playoff spot.


----------



## Vaneyes

Controversial ruling saves the Seahawks from another late game collapse...against the Lowly Lions, no less. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400791741


----------



## science

Vaneyes said:


> Controversial ruling saves the Seahawks from another late game collapse...against the Lowly Lions, no less.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400791741


Yeah, that's pretty lame stuff. It's like the mid-'90s NBA when Jordan could do no wrong at the end of a game.


----------



## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> Controversial ruling saves the Seahawks from another late game collapse...against the Lowly Lions, no less.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400791741


Perhaps the officials were afraid to call the penalty for fear they would become "Lifeless in Seattle".


----------



## Selby

Vaneyes said:


> Controversial ruling saves the Seahawks from another late game collapse...against the Lowly Lions, no less.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400791741


Lifelong Hawks fan here - born and spent most of my life in the Pacific Northwest - I am pretty dismayed that this is becoming a part of their reputation. I get pretty mopey when they lose, but, I supported them through many losing seasons - especially prior to 2002 return to the NFC.

Having said that - I'd rather a loss than a reputation for undeserved wins.

This backfield has serious problems. Running backs injured (Lynch, Jackson), a makeshift offensive line (with 3 players converted from other positions) and 2 tight ends that cannot block for their lives (Graham, Willson). Russel Wilson is just getting beat down back there.


----------



## Vaneyes

*Washington +18* @ USC
*Maryland +33* @ Ohio State
*Indiana +7* @ Penn State
Georgia Tech @* Clemson -7*
*South Carolina +20* @ LSU
Northwestern @ *Michigan -8*
Florida @ *Missouri +5*
*Miami +9* @ Florida State
Cal @ *Utah -7
*
The oddsmakers are freewheelin' some spreads, so I'm tryin' to take advantage of that.


----------



## Vaneyes

Washington didn't need any points against USC last night. ha ha

'Could Baylor score 100 points against Kansas?'

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/...points-mercy-expected-in-big-12s-big-mismatch


----------



## Skilmarilion

Belated post here, but absolutely necessary:

*GURLEYYY.*


----------



## Kivimees

I tried to watch Indiana-Penn State, but the announcer's voice (I didn't get her name) was just too irritating, so I'll listen to the Saturday Symphony now and try another game later.


----------



## Vaneyes

Baylor 52 Kansas 7...at halftime. 

Maryland Terps tryin' to upset #1 Buckleberries. 


Late edit: Mercy was shown in item one. 66 - 7 (F).

Buckleberries go to 6 - 0. Soft schedule 'til their last two games--Michigan St, @ Michigan.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Re: week 3 - the Giants may end up having a difficult season but one thing that rarely changes is having annual bragging rights over the Redskins heh heh...


----------



## Skilmarilion

elgars ghost said:


> Re: week 3 - the Giants may end up having a difficult season but one thing that rarely changes is having annual bragging rights over the Redskins heh heh...


Hope you lay the smack down on NE later this year as is customary for you guys.


----------



## elgar's ghost

That would be sweet, Skillers, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the Giants fail to make the play-offs again this year. After the woeful last two seasons I'll even be content with an 8-8 record. Mind you, they managed to win Superbowl XLVI after posting only a 9-7 regular season so who knows?


----------



## Vaneyes

5 - 4 on my College picks. Lost a coupla spreads by one point. Boo-hoo.

Florida continues to impress, particularly its D.

Florida State was formidable in the first half, and not so in the second. Cook won it for them. Tight-end Izzo thrilled, as did Walker on D.

Miami's O is one-dimensional, with Kaaya doin' the chuckin'. 400+ yds last night in the losing cause.

AP poll will be forced to rank Florida State in their Top 10 this week.

Baylor is the new Oregon.


----------



## Kivimees

Seattle touchdown no. 2 - wow!


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Poor Ravens. They're 1-4 now. That's the worst they've ever had for a early-season record. Ever.

But I don't really wanna root for anyone else, so I'll still say Go (win a little bit, _please?_) Ravens.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> Seattle touchdown no. 2 - wow!


The Dalton Gang of Cincy punked Seattle in the 4th and OT. The Seahawks are now challenging college football's Nebraska Cornhuskers for most horrific endings in one season.


----------



## Vaneyes

Well, shiver me timbers, AP has Florida State 11th. Be patient, Jimbo has Nos. 5 & 8 on his schedule. 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings

Meanwhile, USC's Sarkisian takes an "indefinite leave of absence".

http://espn.go.com/losangeles/colle...head-coach-steve-sarkisian-take-leave-absence


----------



## Skilmarilion

elgars ghost said:


> That would be sweet, Skillers, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the Giants fail to make the play-offs again this year. After the woeful last two seasons I'll even be content with an 8-8 record. Mind you, they managed to win Superbowl XLVI after posting only a 9-7 regular season so who knows?


With no Romo for a while, 6-10 should be enough for the NFC East title.


----------



## Vaneyes

Former Heismans watch: Infamous Jameis 2 - 3 (QB Rating 71.2); Marcus Mariota 1 - 3 (QB Rating 110.3).

Marcus, it's wins, not style points.


----------



## Vaneyes

I see these "Lucky 13" as still being in the college football playoff race. Their remaining season schedule "big games" are as follows (Applicable conference championship games to be determined). Of course, the "looking ahead" trap always lurks. A one or two-loss team can bite you. Parity gets stronger each year.

*Ohio State* - Michigan State, Michigan
*Baylor* - Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU
*TCU* - Oklahoma State, Baylor
*Utah* - USC, Washington
*Michigan State* - Michigan, Ohio State
*Clemson* - Miami, Florida State
*LSU* - Florida, Alabama, Texas A&M
*Florida* - LSU, Georgia, Florida State
*Florida State* - Clemson, Florida
*Texas A&M* - Alabama, LSU
*Alabama* - Texas A&M, LSU
*Michigan* - Michigan State, Ohio State
*Notre Dame* - USC, Stanford

Note: I see undefeateds Oklahoma State and Iowa as wildcard spoilers at this point. A lot of houses would have to fall, before they get into the playoff picture.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Skilmarilion said:


> With no Romo for a while, 6-10 should be enough for the NFC East title.


Ha ha! Looking at the standings so far you could be right.


----------



## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> The Dalton Gang of Cincy punked Seattle in the 4th and OT.


Perhaps Seattle's karma for the week before.


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> AP poll will be forced to rank Florida State in their Top 10 this week.


Don't count on this. While Clemson and FSU have has some good wins this season, the fact is the conference, outside of those two teams, is weak. FSU didn't exactly have convincing wins against BC and WF (14-0, 24-16, respectively), two teams that came up with 3-0 against each other. There is a great article on ESPN about this. Their strength of schedule is just going to kill them. What other impressive teams are there in the ACC? They have the least number of teams with winning records of all the Power 5 conferences.


----------



## Vaneyes

Florida QB Grier busted for PED use. Formerly-suspended QB Harris to take the helm.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...r-florida-gators-quarterback-suspended-season


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Don't count on this. While Clemson and FSU have has some good wins this season, the fact is the conference, outside of those two teams, is weak. FSU didn't exactly have convincing wins against BC and WF (14-0, 24-16, respectively), two teams that came up with 3-0 against each other. There is a great article on ESPN about this. Their strength of schedule is just going to kill them. What other impressive teams are there in the ACC? They have the least number of teams with winning records of all the Power 5 conferences.


Yes, there are some unknowns about Florida State, as noted on these pages for the past few weeks. Where have you been? Yes, your beloved SEC has a few questions to answer, also.

However, perhaps the most intriguing ones stem from Big 12 and Big 10 play, thus far.

All will soon be revealed. Stay patient.


----------



## Guest

I agree that the SEC has questions to answer. I have my doubts about Alabama this year - even if friends of mine don't. Unlike them, I don't view Alabama as infallible - so much of their faith now resides in other teams being "all hype." Still - it is hard to argue that Alabama doesn't have a stronger strength of schedule than FSU or Clemson. And it is hard to argue with the fact that the ACC appears to be the weakest of the Power 5 - with the least number of teams with winning records halfway through.

And part of it is also my emotional, personal aversion to FSU. I will admit that I have a bias against them and really want to see them fail.


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> I agree that the SEC has questions to answer. I have my doubts about Alabama this year - even if friends of mine don't. Unlike them, I don't view Alabama as infallible - so much of their faith now resides in other teams being "all hype." Still - it is hard to argue that Alabama doesn't have a stronger strength of schedule than FSU or Clemson. And it is hard to argue with the fact that the ACC appears to be the weakest of the Power 5 - with the least number of teams with winning records halfway through.
> 
> *And part of it is also my emotional, personal aversion to FSU. I will admit that I have a bias against them and really want to see them fail.*


That tired ol' SEC jargon doesn't play anymore. Could say it's gone the way of the Oregon Ducks. 

Boldly said before, and so noted.


----------



## Vaneyes

USC must be readying itself for a huge payout to their now former head football coach Sarkisian. When coach admitted his trouble and intent to enter rehab, he was given an indefinite leave of absence. Within 24 hours, USC decided to fire him. I suspect labor lawyers are fighting each other off for a chance at this one.

Meanwhile, it's been clarified that Florida QB Grier will suffer a one calendar year suspension for his PED use. He'll be eligible to play in game 7 of 2016.


----------



## Vaneyes

It hadta come, but yuh can't always count on him doing the right thing. Stevie Spurrier resigns his head coaching position at South Carolina.

He's mellowed the last few years. Maybe that's why his teams started heading south, and why he'll probably appear on a college football talkinghead show soon. Lucky us.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...outh-carolina-gamecocks-announces-resignation


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> That tired ol' SEC jargon doesn't play anymore. Could say it's gone the way of the Oregon Ducks.
> 
> Boldly said before, and so noted.


Oh, my hatred of FSU predates my time in the South. I grew up in California, and really started paying attention to college football at sort of the height of the Bobby Bowden era, when they were the perennial powerhouse, and when the phrase "wide right" would draw reflexive groans from FSU fans. That was when my hatred for the team started. Since I have moved down South (been here for 10 of the last 15 years), it really hasn't changed much. My enthusiasm for 'Bama didn't increase or decrease my hatred for FSU.


----------



## Vaneyes

In official HRdom, USC says it fired Sarkasian with cause. Which means of course that they think they'll owe Sarkasian less money for the rest of his contract (3 years remaining). SI's between-the- lines questions this thinking, and so do I.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/14/steve-sarkisian-fired-usc-trojans-football-cause

Re mismanagement, maybe Pat Haden should've been the first to go.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/10/12/usc-steve-sarkisian-fired-pat-haden-future


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Oh, my hatred of FSU predates my time in the South. I grew up in California, and really started paying attention to college football at sort of the height of the Bobby Bowden era, when they were the perennial powerhouse, and when the phrase "wide right" would draw reflexive groans from FSU fans. That was when my hatred for the team started. Since I have moved down South (been here for 10 of the last 15 years), it really hasn't changed much. My enthusiasm for 'Bama didn't increase or decrease my hatred for FSU.


Thank you for that. Glad we've got it on record. :tiphat:


----------



## Skilmarilion

So, six undefeated teams in the NFL right now:

NE, DEN, CIN, CAR, ATL, GB

1) Does anyone foresee see any of these going 16-0?

2) If you answered NE, please state the disclaimer that in such a scenario they would probably get punked by the Giants in the Super Bowl anyway.


----------



## Bulldog

Of the six teams left with an unbeaten record, I think Atlanta has the best chance of going 16-0. Atlanta has become a winner; I keep noticing that this team handles adversity quite well. Most important, Atlanta has a very easy schedule. They play Indy in Atlanta; I think Indy will lose. That only leaves one good team remaining, and it's two games against Carolina.


----------



## Vaneyes

Skilmarilion said:


> So, six undefeated teams in the NFL right now:
> 
> NE, DEN, CIN, CAR, ATL, GB
> 
> 1) Does anyone foresee see any of these going 16-0?
> 
> 2) If you answered NE, please state the disclaimer that in such a scenario they would probably get punked by the Giants in the Super Bowl anyway.


I'll say Brady Bunch and Mister Rodgers Neighborhood, knowing that a good portion of my picks are wrong.


----------



## Vaneyes

This week's CF picks:

UCLA @ *Stanford -7*
*WVU +22 *@ Baylor
*Iowa -2* @ NW
Louisville @ *Florida State -8*
*Pitt +4* @ GT
*Alabama -4* @ Texas A&M
Michigan St. @ *Michigan -8*
Florida @ *LSU -8*
*TCU -21* @Iowa St.
*USC +7 *@ ND
*Penn St. +19* @ Ohio St.
ASU @ *Utah -7*
Oregon @ *Wash -3*


----------



## Skilmarilion

Week 6 NFL picks (not considering lines). :tiphat:

*Atlanta *at New Orleans	
*Denver* at Cleveland	
Chicago at *Detroit* 
Houston at *Jacksonville* 
*Cincinnati* at Buffalo
Washington at *N.Y. Jets* 
Kansas City at *Minnesota* 
*Arizona* at Pittsburgh 
Miami at *Tennessee* 
Carolina at *Seattle*
*Baltimore* at San Francisco
San Diego at *Green Bay*
*New England* at Indianapolis	
*N.Y. Giants* at Philadelphia


----------



## Vaneyes

Atlanta played like marshmallows last night.

Meanwhile, The Catch...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Bulldog said:


> Of the six teams left with an unbeaten record, I think Atlanta has the best chance of going 16-0.





Skilmarilion said:


> Week 6 NFL picks (not considering lines).
> 
> *Atlanta *at New Orleans


Excellent predictions, it must be said.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> Meanwhile, The Catch...


Oh. Woah. Like ... Oh.


----------



## Bulldog

Skilmarilion said:


> Excellent predictions, it must be said.


It took hardly any time at all for my prediction to be garbage. It's a good thing I don't bet on games.


----------



## Vaneyes

Surely, Florida State has a lock on a AP Top 10 spot this week. :lol:


----------



## Skilmarilion

Just saw the ending of Michigan State/Michigan on ESPN. Just wow. Couldn't tell if it was a poor snap or if the punter just put it down.

Maybe Harbaugh wishes he was still coaching the Niners, lol.


----------



## Kivimees

As a still-learning football fan (and one without any "favourite"), part of the challenge is to pick an entertaining game to watch. A one-sided game usually isn't interesting - and sadly many college games are. Yesterday's Memphis-O Miss game was not only interesting, but a learning experience - and an upset.


----------



## Vaneyes

*7 - 6 in my CF picks. Woopdedoo.*
*
Bleacher Report has projected how the AP Poll will look when released Sunday afternoon (Oct. 18).*

*Reluctantly, seemingly with constipated intent, AP puts Florida State 9th!*

*http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...5-week-8-college-top-25-standings-predictions*


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Skilmarilion said:


> *Baltimore* at San Francisco


 Say good-bye to the rest of the season, Baltimore.


----------



## Kivimees

With sport (all sport) I have a tendency to cheer for underdogs - those teams from whom little is expected.

(Maybe I'll become a Jets fan.)


----------



## elgar's ghost

Kivimees said:


> With sport (all sport) I have a tendency to cheer for underdogs - those teams from whom little is expected.
> 
> (Maybe I'll become a Jets fan.)


Exactly what I did when I started to look out for the Giants in 1983 - that season they went 3-12-1 and all my fellow converts to the game who instinctively hooked up to the then-glamour clubs like the Dolphins, Raiders and Redskins mocked me mercilessly for wasting my time with a bunch of losers who were never going anywhere. If I were to see any of them around these days I'd simply hold up four fingers - one for each Superbowl victory. :lol:


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> *7 - 6 in my CF picks. Woopdedoo.*
> *
> Bleacher Report has projected how the AP Poll will look when released Sunday afternoon (Oct. 18).*
> 
> *Reluctantly, seemingly with constipated intent, AP puts Florida State 9th!*
> 
> *http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...5-week-8-college-top-25-standings-predictions*


I think they can very easily finish the season undefeated and still not make it to the playoff. Honestly, who have they played, and who do they have yet to play? Clemson may be the only serious threat they will face. We'll have to see what state Florida is in by the time they meet up at the end of the season. But who do they have still to play? Chattanooga, Georgia Tech, and Syracuse? Then Clemson, Florida, and NC State.


----------



## Vaneyes

All you have to know and perhaps learn from, is that the last times Florida State played Alabama and Auburn, Florida State was victorious on both occasions. Bury the hate. It does no good.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Skilmarilion said:


> Week 6 NFL picks (not considering lines).
> 
> *Atlanta *at New Orleans
> *Denver* at Cleveland
> Chicago at *Detroit*
> Houston at *Jacksonville*
> *Cincinnati* at Buffalo
> Washington at *N.Y. Jets*
> Kansas City at *Minnesota*
> *Arizona* at Pittsburgh
> Miami at *Tennessee*
> Carolina at *Seattle*
> *Baltimore* at San Francisco
> San Diego at *Green Bay*
> *New England* at Indianapolis
> *N.Y. Giants* at Philadelphia


7-6 going into MNF. Backing TEN and JAX is never a good idea.


----------



## Vaneyes

Skilmarilion said:


> Just saw the ending of Michigan State/Michigan on ESPN. Just wow. Couldn't tell if it was a poor snap or if the punter just put it down.
> 
> Maybe Harbaugh wishes he was still coaching the Niners, lol.


He feels better now, after a Obama/White House cuddle. ha ha

Other ESPN newz...

TOP HEADLINES

Odom moved to L.A. hospital, takes a few steps

Clemson coach: FSU's Cook nation's best back


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> All you have to know and perhaps learn from, is that the last times Florida State played Alabama and Auburn, Florida State was victorious on both occasions. Bury the hate. It does no good.


That was 2007, when last Alabama and Florida State met. Yes, I think FSU could beat Auburn this season. I don't think they could beat Alabama. Basing this on FSU from 8 years ago doesn't really embolden your case. Wins against the likes of Louisville, Wake Forest, and BC also aren't going to make your claim any more true. That is why 1-loss Alabama is still ranked higher than undefeated FSU.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kivimees said:


> With sport (all sport) I have a tendency to cheer for underdogs - those teams from whom little is expected.
> 
> (Maybe I'll become a Jets fan.)


Hmmm. Not really sure "little is expected" from the Jets ... or any NY professional sports team!

This is what you want:









:tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

CF Picks

*Iowa St.+37* @ Baylor
Clemson @ *Miami +8*
Tenn @ *Alabama -16*
*Florida State -7* @ GT
*Texas A&M +6* @ Ole Miss
*Utah +4* @ USC
Ohio St. @ *Rutgers +21*
*Wash +17* @ Stanford

I could lose all of these. Howz dat fo' confidence.


----------



## Kivimees

"ineligible receiver downfield penalty"

I'll have to think about this one for a while. The wikipedia explanation doesn't help me much.

At least the "face mask penalty" is straightforward.


----------



## Kivimees

Question for our experts: are players for teams such as Army and Air Force truly military or just football players?


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> Question for our experts: are players for teams such as Army and Air Force truly military or just football players?


They're ROTC and become commissioned officers with a 6 year commitment to serve once they graduate.

Late Bulletin: Georgia Tech shocks Florida State on the last play of the game. 22 - 16. A blocked FG was returned.


----------



## Guest

Yeah, it looks like FSU and Utah are two teams that will not be in the top 10 by this time tomorrow. The Tide pulled off a win, but it was sure a lot closer than I would have liked.


----------



## Vaneyes

Coach Jimbo rues his Black Saturday. "Gotta cover, gotta cover."

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-jimbo-fisher-rues-blocked-kick-six-got-cover

It's true, you do have to anticipate the what-ifs, but what the hell, it's a rebuilding year, and Coach Jimbo has kept the reins pretty tight.

Also, QB Golson (in his final hurrah) is dead set on not making errors, such as fumbles and turnovers, which he was notorious for in past lives. That's fine, but it's paralyzing the O. Red Zone paralysis yesterday. As a Noles broadcaster said, the inevitable happened when opportunities weren't completed.

It's a turning point for this young team. After what Clemson did to Miami yesterday, the reins must come off. They'll have to open it up, or it'll be a 3 or 4 loss season.

Muh picks look like 1 - 6 -1. The horror, the horror, the horror.


----------



## Vasks

Vaneyes said:


> Coach Jimbo has kept the reins pretty tight.
> 
> Also, QB Golson (in his final hurrah) is dead set on not making errors, such as fumbles and turnovers, which he was notorious for in past lives. That's fine, but it's paralyzing the O. Red Zone paralysis yesterday. As a Noles broadcaster said, the inevitable happened when opportunities weren't completed.
> 
> After what Clemson did to Miami yesterday, the reins must come off. They'll have to open it up, or it'll be a 3 or 4 loss season.


Yep. That's my take. The team had plenty of chances to win but playing everything "safe" blew all of them. I say let the reins come off and play like bats out of hell against Clemson. Show more fire and passion.


----------



## Skilmarilion

JAX ballin' in London. Really nice win there. Equally nice comeback by BUF as well, it has to be said.

Good to see your team get the "W", Kivimees. :tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

In the pro show, 'Boys hit "system restore" with Matt Cassel at the helm. Giants are 3-point faves, but that's ignoring Dallas beating them a lot lately. I'll take the points. 

Sunday night, Eagles @ Panthers, with the home team favored by 3. What's this 3-stuff? I'll take the visitors.

Meanwhile Infamous Jameis is tryin' to beat the 'Skins, and Fitzpatrick, the Brady Bunch. Go both!


----------



## Skilmarilion

Pats looking ominously good, despite having 1 yard rushing (discounting Brady).

STL lays the smackdown one CLE. Back to .500 now.


----------



## Ukko

Skilmarilion said:


> Pats looking ominously good, despite having 1 yard rushing (discounting Brady).
> 
> STL lays the smackdown one CLE. Back to .500 now.


Yeah. Nine drops (at least), and still... . No running game but there probably wasn't supposed to be.


----------



## Vaneyes

Twas a Black Sunday, also. 0 fer 4 on my wishlist.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

^^^ Better keep the day job!


----------



## Vaneyes

Grizzled Ghost said:


> ^^^ Better keep the day job!


No siree, we're gonna get right back on that buckin' bronc.

*Clemson -11* @ NCST
*Georgia +3* @ Florida
*Syracuse +21* @ Florida State
*USC -6* @ Cal
*ND -10* @ Temple
Stanford @ *WSU +12*
*UNC -3* @ Pitt


----------



## Vaneyes

Heisman Watch:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman15/


----------



## Vaneyes

Tight-fisted betting experts have made The Brady Bunch (at home) 8.5 faves over the Fish tonight. How generous. Wha' foool would bet against those odds.

Item 2. I'm worried. My one glass of wine last night may have caused irrevocable harm. I swear I saw this morn at ESPN, "Despite slow start, the Seahawks are in position to make a run."


----------



## Ukko

Vaneyes said:


> Tight-fisted betting experts have made The Brady Bunch (at home) 8.5 faves over the Fish tonight. How generous. Wha' foool would bet against those odds.
> 
> Item 2. I'm worried. My one glass of wine last night may have caused irrevocable harm. I swear I saw this morn at ESPN, "Despite slow start, the Seahawks are in position to make a run."


1) The new Dolphins coach has fixed the team; they will probably win - by 3.

2) Seattle only has to win the rest of the way to be Super Bowl Champions. Not impossible...


----------



## Vaneyes

Ukko said:


> 1) The new Dolphins coach has fixed the team; they will probably win - by 3.
> 
> 2) Seattle only has to win the rest of the way to be Super Bowl Champions. Not impossible...


Why didn't I think of that.


----------



## JACE

Vaneyes said:


> No siree, we're gonna get right back on that buckin' bronc.
> 
> *Clemson -11* @ NCST
> *Georgia +3* @ Florida
> *Syracuse +21* @ Florida State
> *USC -6* @ Cal
> *ND -10* @ Temple
> Stanford @ *WSU +12*
> *UNC -3* @ Pitt


You're brave to pick UGA over Florida -- even with the points. I'm a Dawg fan, but I fear that we'll be blown out (again).


----------



## Vasks

JACE said:


> You're brave to pick UGA over Florida -- even with the points. I'm a Dawg fan, but I fear that we'll be blown out (again).


I think he has UF winning, but I hope UGA can prevail.


----------



## Vaneyes

Vasks said:


> *I think he has UF winning*, but I hope UGA can prevail.


Not necessarily, I'm just using the 3 points. A Gators loss would be nice, as always, though a Gators win could potentially help the Noles when the Noles beat them. That is, if the Noles win everything from here on out. Highly unlikely, that, but we can hope. Hope is free.


----------



## Vasks

No, the one loss to a weak team (GT) has eliminated FSU from the National hunt, so I'd rather see UF lose tomorrow. UGA will likely lose but since "_hope is free_"........


----------



## Ukko

Well, the Dolphins defense came to play - but the offense kept putting them in _bad_ situations.

I wonder what the Pats are going to do with the offensive line scarcity; at the end of the game, they had zero backups.


----------



## Skilmarilion

CIN looking very sharp. Really not sure what's happened to DET this season. Some sloppy D by NYJ today, and that division's a wrap for NE now. STL also looking sharp - I wonder if they could have been legit SB contenders with an above average passing offense. NYG vs NO? rofl.


----------



## elgar's ghost

When I saw the final score of the Giants/Saints game I wondered whether they were playing basketball instead.


----------



## Vaneyes

Re CF results, another going-nowhere-fast week, at 3 - 3 - 1. 

Stay tuned for this week's picks.


----------



## Vaneyes

Re CF, my Lucky 13. 

Baylor @ *K-State +18 *Spoiler Wildcats, how 'bout winnin' outright?
*Penn St.+3* @ NW NW's fadin'.
Duke @ *UNC -8 *NC's playin' good.
*ND -9* @ Pitt Pitt's worn out.
*Florida St +13 *@ Clemson Maguire will start, and be a "world of hurt" for No. 1 (late edit).
*TCU -6* @ Okla St. Cowboys pretending ends.
Cincy @ *Houston -9 *Houston, the best of the 2nd tiers.
*Mich St. -6* @ Nebraska Spartans will cover easily.
*Utah +1* @ Wash Huskies haven't looked good lately.
*LSU +7* @ 'Bama The end of the line for Coker.
*Minn +23* @ OSU Gophers could win outright.
*Cal +5* @ Oregon Cal's way better than Ducks this year.
Ariz @ *USC -18* SoCal reborn.

Late edit, with CFP ranking: 1. Clemson; 2. LSU; 3. OSU; 4. 'Bama.

Mister Cool's Lucky 13 must ask, What happens when CFP's #16 knocks off their #1?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/


----------



## Vaneyes

"What happens when CFP's #16 knocks off their #1?"

Well, it was a delicious thought for more than three quarters.

Meanwhile, the Wackiest Play of the Day goes to Arkansas' Hogs in their b-ball type win o'er Ole Miss.

http://www.cbssports.com/video/player/collegefootball


----------



## Guest

Some teams struggling right now, against teams without the best records. Buckeyes currently scoreless in the 2nd quarter against a 4-4 Minnesota. Michigan State down by 3 in the third against 3-6 Nebraska. 

Honestly, I was kind of hoping the 'Noles could have beaten Clemson - I don't think it would have elevated FSU to the top 4, but it would have knocked Clemson out, most likely.

Curious to see how 'Bama/LSU works out. 'Bama tends to do well in the tough games - it is the ones that should be easier where they screw up. 10-0 in the second isn't bad, though.


----------



## Vaneyes

LSU's Fournette was a flop (31 yards). They died by that sword. Not much of a Plan B, with QB Harris having an off game.

Cook, 194 yards rushing. Florida State's QB Maguire (taking into consideration dropped passes, poorly-timed penalties, and coaches dreadful play-calling), had an off game with 164 yards passing. 

Speaking of off games, another poor week of CF pickings. Mister Cool went 7 - 6.


----------



## Avey

NFC East on prime time. Also, the world keeps spinnning.


----------



## Vaneyes

Mizzou football program held hostage. School prez resigns amid furor.

This fallout-from-Ferguson snowball didn't have to grow and keep rolling, but with Wolfe's inexperience in academia, and forgetting or ignoring a golden rule, the outcome was fairly predictable.

His background was IT sales, with a career path of representative to VP. In successful sales, it's vital to recognize and deal with "customer resistance". Somewhere along the line, Wolfe forgot or thought he outgrew this important step for success.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/tim-w...-butler-student-hunger-strike-bio-age-photos/


----------



## Vaneyes

I see two potential stumbles this week for college playoff contenders. *Alabama* @ Mississippi State, and Oklahoma @ *Baylor*. Stay tuned for my sparkling picks.


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Mizzou football program held hostage. School prez resigns amid furor.
> 
> This fallout-from-Ferguson snowball didn't have to grow and keep rolling, but with Wolfe's inexperience in academia, and forgetting or ignoring a golden rule, the outcome was fairly predictable.
> 
> His background was IT sales, with a career path of representative to VP. In successful sales, it's vital to recognize and deal with "customer resistance". Somewhere along the line, Wolfe forgot or thought he outgrew this important step for success.
> 
> http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/tim-w...-butler-student-hunger-strike-bio-age-photos/


I think this whole thing was despicable. The grievance industry was in full swing, and claimed another pointless head.

Here is what Wolfe should have done:
1. Fire the football staff when they refused to act according to their contractual obligations, which could have resulted in significant fines to the school - this should have been after he slapped down the team by telling them that a threat to not play will carry more weight as soon as they can score more than 3 points against Vandy, and that their refusing to show up to play can't really be much worse than the games where they have shown up.
2. He should have immediately suspended all stipend payments, free housing and food, and free tuition to all players who refused to play. All would be restored if they agreed to play. If they persisted in refusing to play, cancel their scholarships and send them off to whatever junior college might take them.

The demands against him were idiotic. Acknowledge his "white privilege?" Create further "diversity" programs? Can anybody show one iota of evidence that such programs do anything? Other than justify the further existence of such agitators?

The lunatics have been given the keys to the asylum. This was a dangerous precedent to set. All over some isolated incidents of racism that were being handled, where the events could be verified and suspects identified.

Absurd.


----------



## Vasks

DrMike said:


> I think this whole thing was despicable. The grievance industry was in full swing, and claimed another pointless head.
> 
> Here is what Wolfe should have done:
> 1. Fire the football staff when they refused to act according to their contractual obligations, which could have resulted in significant fines to the school - this should have been after he slapped down the team by telling them that a threat to not play will carry more weight as soon as they can score more than 3 points against Vandy, and that their refusing to show up to play can't really be much worse than the games where they have shown up.
> 2. He should have immediately suspended all stipend payments, free housing and food, and free tuition to all players who refused to play. All would be restored if they agreed to play. If they persisted in refusing to play, cancel their scholarships and send them off to whatever junior college might take them.
> 
> The demands against him were idiotic. Acknowledge his "white privilege?" Create further "diversity" programs? Can anybody show one iota of evidence that such programs do anything? Other than justify the further existence of such agitators?
> 
> The lunatics have been given the keys to the asylum. This was a dangerous precedent to set. All over some isolated incidents of racism that were being handled, where the events could be verified and suspects identified.
> 
> Absurd.


Yes, that's what the College President should have done because only the Board of Trustees can fire him. He was a Wussy to give in to pressure. This sets a bad, really bad precedent. And Vaneyes is right. It all stems from Ferguson


----------



## Vaneyes

I see some rumblings here re Prez Wolfe. Sure, he was jobbed, but as I said, he also was in over his head. Twas a sacrificial lamb to appease the restless. Though after Ferguson, I don't think they're that many lambs. It's gotta stop somewhere, those seein' a bug under ev'ry rock, but it wasn't this time. The beat goes on.

Meanwhile, here they be, muh Lucky 14. 

*GA +2 *@ Auburn
FLA @ *S. Carolina +8*
*NC State +10* @ FSU
Miami @ *UNC -13*
*WF +27* @ ND
'Bama @ *Miss St. +8*
*Okla. St. -14* @ Iowa St.
Memphis @ *Houston -7*
*ARK +8* @ LSU
*Oregon +10* @ Stanford
*Okla. +3* @ Baylor
*Minn. +13* @ Iowa
*Utah -6* @ Arizona
*Wash. St. +10* @ UCLA


----------



## Vaneyes

Vasks said:


> Yes, that's what the College President should have done because only the Board of Trustees can fire him. He was a Wussy to give in to pressure. This sets a bad, really bad precedent. And Vaneyes is right. It all stems from Ferguson


If yuh can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. And Prez Wolfe *ran* out of the kitchen. heh heh

*My concern for him*, and it's not a deep concern, because he chose to take the position knowing full well he wasn't qualified. "Live by the sword" not the best, but it'll will do. Prestige and moolah. *Is that he'll be branded a racist.

*I suspect that'll be a tough hole to get out of, now that he's flown the coop. Whether he has to work again, or not, it's not something nice to have dangling from you for the rest of your days.


----------



## Vaneyes

Is Deflategate still with us? NFL appeal hearing's still to be heard in February, after The Brady Bunch win another SB? ha ha

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/29/us-nfl-brady-idUSKCN0RT2LZ20150929#otuVXxSl9QA1BrOR.97


----------



## Guest

Ferguson is just the latest pretext. Michael Brown was in the wrong. These dainty flowers at Mizzu are the latest coddled class. Give me a break - they can't stand hearing mean, nasty things? And for that they launch into all of this?

How, exactly, should Wolfe have responded? By caving to all the demands immediately from a bunch of students who had nothing happen to them, supported by a bunch of useful idiot white kids who buy into this notion that they are inherently guilty of being white, and must atone. Wolfe was a successful manager in some major companies. There is no right way to respond to these irrational characters - whatever you say, they will take offense. That is their job. They are race hustlers and shakedown artists. They use any and every pretext to strike.

The coaching staff should be fired. They are employees of Mizzu, and of the state of Missouri. They acted irresponsibly, and put the school at risk for breach of contract, not only with BYU, who they are scheduled to play, but also the SEC. If nothing happens to that staff and those players, then next time things will go further. And all of this pretty much guarantees there will be a next time.


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> I see some rumblings here re Prez Wolfe. Sure, he was jobbed, but as I said, he also was in over his head. Twas a sacrificial lamb to appease the restless. Though after Ferguson, I don't think they're that many lambs. It's gotta stop somewhere, those seein' a bug under ev'ry rock, but it wasn't this time. The beat goes on.
> 
> Meanwhile, here they be, muh Lucky 14.
> 
> *GA +2 *@ Auburn
> FLA @ *S. Carolina +8*
> *NC State +10* @ FSU
> Miami @ *UNC -13*
> *WF +27* @ ND
> 'Bama @ *Miss St. +8*
> *Okla. St. -14* @ Iowa St.
> Memphis @ *Houston -7*
> *ARK +8* @ LSU
> *Oregon +10* @ Stanford
> *Okla. +3* @ Baylor
> *Minn. +13* @ Iowa
> *Utah -6* @ Arizona
> *Wash. St. +10* @ UCLA


I think last week you picked LSU +8 against Bama, and Bama won by 14. I think Bama is going to clear the 8 points against Miss. St. They aren't nearly the team LSU is. Yes - never count out the ability of Bama to screw up in the lesser challenges, but I don't think that will happen here. They were chastened for their complacency by Ole Miss.

So is ND going to get the chance to redeem their 2-point loss to Clemson? That would be a fun game to watch.


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> I think last week you picked LSU +8 against Bama, and Bama won by 14. I think Bama is going to clear the 8 points against Miss. St. They aren't nearly the team LSU is. Yes - never count out the ability of Bama to screw up in the lesser challenges, but I don't think that will happen here. They were chastened for their complacency by Ole Miss.
> 
> So is ND going to get the chance to redeem their 2-point loss to Clemson? That would be a fun game to watch.


Nice to see Coker having the success he's having. Nothing spectacular, but minimizing the mistakes.

The Domers are lurking, waiting for someone to trip up...likely Baylor in that regard before 'Bama, but everything's on the table for another Black Saturday.


----------



## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Ferguson is just the latest pretext. Michael Brown was in the wrong. These dainty flowers at Mizzu are the latest coddled class. Give me a break - they can't stand hearing mean, nasty things? And for that they launch into all of this?
> 
> *How, exactly, should Wolfe have responded? * By caving to all the demands immediately from a bunch of students who had nothing happen to them, supported by a bunch of useful idiot white kids who buy into this notion that they are inherently guilty of being white, and must atone. Wolfe was a successful manager in some major companies. *There is no right way to respond to these irrational characters *- whatever you say, they will take offense. That is their job. They are race hustlers and shakedown artists. They use any and every pretext to strike.
> 
> The coaching staff should be fired. They are employees of Mizzu, and of the state of Missouri. They acted irresponsibly, and put the school at risk for breach of contract, not only with BYU, who they are scheduled to play, but also the SEC. If nothing happens to that staff and those players, then next time things will go further. And all of this pretty much guarantees there will be a next time.


So freezing like a deer in the headlights was okay for Wolfe? Wolfe was in over his head, it's that simple. End of story for him.

Administrators, corporate execs, others, are confronted with these and other pressing matters daily. Most recognize and handle them early, which subsequently requires little damage control.

For the State of Missouri, the likelihood of a next time appears greater, and that may be due to the Governor.


----------



## Kivimees

I was hoping to enjoy the Maryland-Michigan State game, but alas the commentary is being done by that same horrid announcer I complained about a few weeks ago.

So I am moving to the NCSU-Florida State game. Sheesh!


----------



## Kivimees

Question for our experts: as an eager (but still novice) fan, I rely largely on the video replay and announcers to explain what is going on. Is watching a game in the stadium better than sitting comfortably in one's living room with a large-screen television?


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Kivimees - Sometimes you can find on the internet a college radio station broadcasting the game − for example kzsu for Stanford football games. They tend to be biased, but that adds to the fun if they are rooting for your team. You can also have synchronization issues between the radio signal and the tv signal, but usually it's possible to pause the internet radio signal long enough to line things up.

As for sitting in the cold stadium watching the game − I think this is only advisable with a large group of rowdy friends and copious quantities of social lubricant. You won't see much of the game while watching in the stadium, although the replay screens help somewhat.

Terviseks!


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

It has been a good weekend so far. Ga Bulldogs win and Ga Tech lost.


----------



## Kivimees

Grizzled Ghost said:


> Kivimees - Sometimes you can find on the internet a college radio station broadcasting the game − for example kzsu for Stanford football games. They tend to be biased, but that adds to the fun if they are rooting for your team. You can also have synchronization issues between the radio signal and the tv signal, but usually it's possible to pause the internet radio signal long enough to line things up.


Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I live in the country and our internet signal can be exceedingly weak. Trying synchronization would likely be futile.



> As for sitting in the cold stadium watching the game − I think this is only advisable with a large group of rowdy friends and copious quantities of social lubricant. You won't see much of the game while watching in the stadium, although the replay screens help somewhat.


Understood. Some of the stadia are so huge, I don't believe the game is even visible.

I will add "social lubricant" to my collection of cute English expressions. :tiphat:



> Terviseks!


Same to you!


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> Question for our experts: as an eager (but still novice) fan, I rely largely on the video replay and announcers to explain what is going on. Is watching a game in the stadium better than sitting comfortably in one's living room with a large-screen television?


Much better in the stadium, without the talking studio heads, replays, and "under further review" analysis.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kivimees said:


> I was hoping to enjoy the Maryland-Michigan State game, but alas the commentary is being done by that same horrid announcer I complained about a few weeks ago.
> 
> *So I am moving to the NCSU-Florida State game.* Sheesh!


And in that game, you saw arguably the best runner since Jim Brown, in Dalvin Cook.


----------



## Vaneyes

Another anemic pick week, 7 - 7.

Hey! How 'bout Washington State. Since losing their opener to something called Portland State, they've played great football. Could finish the regular season at 9 - 3.

Re playoffs. lotsa football yet to be played. Knock-out games with Okla. St. 'gainst Baylor and Okla. Knock out games with Ohio St. and Mich St, Mich, and possibly Iowa.

Clemson and 'Bama currently seem assured of playoff spots. Notre Dame can only pray.


----------



## Vasks

Kivimees said:


> Question for our experts: as an eager (but still novice) fan, I rely largely on the video replay and announcers to explain what is going on. Is watching a game in the stadium better than sitting comfortably in one's living room with a large-screen television?


Some plays no matter where you sit, you're not going to know exactly what happened. But you will be surrounded by many "experts" that will offer their opinion as to what happened. LOL!!

But the trade-off is the energy that the home team fans emit. The roar of the crowd when a great play takes place is so much more sensational to feel than watching at home. And to be walking down and out of the stadium after a terrific win with thousands singing the fight song and chanting traditional cheers is icing on the cake


----------



## EricABQ

Vaneyes said:


> Hey! How 'bout Washington State. Since losing their opener to something called Portland State, they've played great football. Could finish the regular season at 9 - 3.


Well, all that matters now is beating the Huskies. And, history shows that when the Huskies suck and the Cougs are good, you should bet the house on the Huskies.


----------



## Kivimees

Vasks said:


> But the trade-off is the energy that the home team fans emit. The roar of the crowd when a great play takes place is so much more sensational to feel than watching at home. And to be walking down and out of the stadium after a terrific win with thousands singing the fight song and chanting traditional cheers is icing on the cake


Yes, I can imagine it's a wonderful feeling. In this part of the world, we have only our own brand of football (i.e. soccer), which rarely fills the stadium with thousands and even more rarely witnesses a win of any sort, let alone a "terrific win".


----------



## Dawood

Just wanted to say, pleased that the Bears triumphed over the Rams on Sunday. Just for the 'whoop' from my ten year old step son.

Go Bears...


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Another anemic pick week, 7 - 7.
> 
> Hey! How 'bout Washington State. Since losing their opener to something called Portland State, they've played great football. Could finish the regular season at 9 - 3.
> 
> Re playoffs. lotsa football yet to be played. Knock-out games with Okla. St. 'gainst Baylor and Okla. Knock out games with Ohio St. and Mich St, Mich, and possibly Iowa.
> 
> Clemson and 'Bama currently seem assured of playoff spots. Notre Dame can only pray.


While I generally agree about 'Bama, don't ignore the Iron Bowl. Where this intense rivalry is involved, normal predictive methods don't apply. Auburn would have no issue with playing the spoiler and potentially knocking the SEC out of the playoffs - just to claim a win in the Iron Bowl. And it is in these seemingly easy wins that 'Bama usually has problems, not the tough ones.

We beat Wisconsin by 18, Georgia by 28, A&M by 18, LSU by 14, and Miss. St. by 25. But we only beat Tennessee by 5.


----------



## Kivimees

Vaneyes said:


> Much better in the stadium, without the talking studio heads, replays, and "under further review" analysis.


I think I now have an appreciation for the phrase "talking studio heads". On Sunday I watched the Detroit-Green Bay game (I don't know why I chose a 6-2 team hosting a 1-7 team...) and I am glad I did. It was very exciting - made even more so by the Detroit kicker missing two extra points.

And I heard that Detroit had not won in Green Bay in 24 games. I will remember this forever because the "talking studio heads" told me no less than 24 times. :lol:


----------



## Guest

Being in the stadium is definitely better - depending on what you want. If you want to watch the game in as much detail as possible, and comfortably, then a high-def large screen TV with a DVR so that you can rewind plays and watch them again is the way to go. Stadiums can be cold. The seats are hard. You are crammed in amongst a bunch of people you don't know. If you are at one end, it is hard to see the action at the other end. But you get wrapped up in the excitement of the game. Cheering with other fans. Eating stadium food - which in any other situation would be crap, but which tastes so much better on game day. It is the atmosphere of it all.


----------



## Vaneyes

My "Lucky 10" for this week. 

*UNC - 5 *@ VA Tech
*NW +10 *@ Wisconsin
*Mich St. +14* @ Ohio St.
*Chattanooga +31* @ Florida St. 
*Charleston Southern +39* @ 'Bama 
BC @ *ND -16*
Baylor @ *Okla St. -1*
TCU @ *Oklahoma*
Cal @ *Stanford -11*
Colorado @ *Wash St. -15*


----------



## Triplets

DrMike said:


> Being in the stadium is definitely better - depending on what you want. If you want to watch the game in as much detail as possible, and comfortably, then a high-def large screen TV with a DVR so that you can rewind plays and watch them again is the way to go. Stadiums can be cold. The seats are hard. You are crammed in amongst a bunch of people you don't know. If you are at one end, it is hard to see the action at the other end. But you get wrapped up in the excitement of the game. Cheering with other fans. Eating stadium food - which in any other situation would be crap, but which tastes so much better on game day. It is the atmosphere of it all.


No way. 4 hours of boredom in bed weather. At home I sit in a comfy place, turn off the annoying announcers, play music and read and surf the net. And no one spills beer on me.


----------



## Vasks

Triplets said:


> No way. 4 hours of boredom in bed weather. At home I sit in a comfy place, turn off the annoying announcers, play music and read and surf the net. And no one spills beer on me.


Yep, there can be some not-so-good things from the spilled drinks (no beer at Doak Campbell Stadium) to long bathroom lines, opposing fans sitting around you spewing verbal garbage at you, being squished like sardines and having to maneuver to let people in your aisle come and go. But for me they are not so serious as to stop loving attending college football games.


----------



## Triplets

Vasks said:


> Yep, there can be some not-so-good things from the spilled drinks (no beer at Doak Campbell Stadium) to long bathroom lines, opposing fans sitting around you spewing verbal garbage at you, being squished like sardines and having to maneuver to let people in your aisle come and go. But for me they are not so serious as to stop loving attending college football games.


College is more enjoyable then Pro, I admit. I'd still rather take it in from the comfort of my Man Cave


----------



## Vaneyes

Vasks said:


> Yep, there can be some not-so-good things from the spilled drinks (no beer at Doak Campbell Stadium) to long bathroom lines, opposing fans sitting around you spewing verbal garbage at you, being squished like sardines and *having to maneuver to let people in your aisle come and go*. But for me they are not so serious as to stop loving attending college football games.


That's probably my #1 ****-off, at any event.


----------



## EricABQ

I'm faced with an ethical dilemma this morning.

Entering this weekend's action I have a two point lead in my work place's season long pick-em pool. I noticed this morning while reviewing the spreadsheet that tracks everyone's picks that the second place individual did not make a pick in the Memphis/Temple game, thereby guaranteeing him a loss in that game. Now, I could text him and let him know, text the guy who runs the pool and let him know and make the call, or I could say nothing and benefit from him losing that game.

It should be pointed out that there is $200 at stake for the winner of the pool. 

I don't think I have any moral obligation to point out the mistake, but I think I feel as if I should.


----------



## Triplets

EricABQ said:


> I'm faced with an ethical dilemma this morning.
> 
> Entering this weekend's action I have a two point lead in my work place's season long pick-em pool. I noticed this morning while reviewing the spreadsheet that tracks everyone's picks that the second place individual did not make a pick in the Memphis/Temple game, thereby guaranteeing him a loss in that game. Now, I could text him and let him know, text the guy who runs the pool and let him know and make the call, or I could say nothing and benefit from him losing that game.
> 
> It should be pointed out that there is $200 at stake for the winner of the pool.
> 
> I don't think I have any moral obligation to point out the mistake, but I think I feel as if I should.


 You are asking the wrong people for moral guidance here. You basically want us to make you feel better for not alerting this individual. Perhaps you should ask Bill Belichick to be your Spiritual Counsel.


----------



## Kivimees

"Wait a minute. There is laundry on the field."

- Studio Talking Head

:lol:


----------



## Vaneyes

EricABQ said:


> I'm faced with an ethical dilemma this morning.
> 
> Entering this weekend's action I have a two point lead in my work place's season long pick-em pool. I noticed this morning while reviewing the spreadsheet that tracks everyone's picks that the second place individual did not make a pick in the Memphis/Temple game, thereby guaranteeing him a loss in that game. Now, I could text him and let him know, text the guy who runs the pool and let him know and make the call, or I could say nothing and benefit from him losing that game.
> 
> It should be pointed out that there is $200 at stake for the winner of the pool.
> 
> I don't think I have any moral obligation to point out the mistake, but I think I feel as if I should.


Bellycheck aside, everyone's responsible for their own picks only. Let the non-picks fall where they may.


----------



## Vaneyes

FLA Gators, lookin' ahead to next week's game, almos' blew one to lowly FLA Atlantic in OT. Which is good.


----------



## EricABQ

Well, I screwed up. Out of the goodness of my heart and a misguided sense of fair play I notified him of his mistake and he submitted his pick prior to kick off, the guy running the pool accepted it and he proceeded to get the pick correct while I missed it.

I didn't want to risk bad karma and karma promptly gave me the finger.


----------



## Triplets

Watchin Ohio State-Michigan State, pretty good game. Trouble is, I'm a Michigan Fan and trying to figure out how I can get both teams to lose.


----------



## Vaneyes

Yes, Mich St. and Ohio St. was a good one, because Mich St. won. Cryin' Meyer's not a favorite.

Undefeateds continue to go down, with Houston bowing to CT. And, Okla St.(10 - 0) is currently getting comeuppance versus Baylor.

'Bama and FLA St. win their point-spreads by thumpin' their powder puffs. This late in the season, and still schedulin' cupcakes! The horror, the horror, the horror.


----------



## Guest

Honestly, though, wasn't Clemson also up against a powder puff Wake Forest team? But yeah - I see arguments for and against, but the football fan in me, who isn't as concerned with rankings and potential for knocking out of playoff contention, would like to see more games scheduled with other top conferences, not just the powder puffs.

At any rate, it has been a pretty good day thus far. Bama won, as did BYU. I lived 5 years in Columbus, OH, so I am a little sad that the Buckeyes got taken down. As a BYU fan, I am also really happy to see Utah knocked down to 3-loss status. Like I said - great day. Maybe the Irish will also lose. That is pushing my luck just a little too far.


----------



## Triplets

DrMike said:


> Honestly, though, wasn't Clemson also up against a powder puff Wake Forest team? But yeah - I see arguments for and against, but the football fan in me, who isn't as concerned with rankings and potential for knocking out of playoff contention, would like to see more games scheduled with other top conferences, not just the powder puffs.
> 
> At any rate, it has been a pretty good day thus far. Bama won, as did BYU. I lived 5 years in Columbus, OH, so I am a little sad that the Buckeyes got taken down. As a BYU fan, I am also really happy to see Utah knocked down to 3-loss status. Like I said - great day. Maybe the Irish will also lose. That is pushing my luck just a little too far.


 Although it would have benefited my Wolverines to have Sparty lose to the -uckeyes, I have to admit I enjoyed the outcome of that game very much. As for Notre Dame, there are two types of people in this world, Notre Dame Fans and the rest of us.


----------



## Kivimees

EricABQ said:


> Well, I screwed up. Out of the goodness of my heart and a misguided sense of fair play I notified him of his mistake and he submitted his pick prior to kick off, the guy running the pool accepted it and he proceeded to get the pick correct while I missed it.
> 
> I didn't want to risk bad karma and karma promptly gave me the finger.


"No good deed goes unpunished." :angel:


----------



## Vaneyes

The Domers (#4 AP & Coaches) are jus' hangin' around, like I knew they would. Their 3-point win 'gainst BC tells me they would lose to everyone 'cept maybe Florida in the top 15.

How 'bout dem Washington State Cougars?!

'Twas another kissin' yo' sis pickin' week, 5 - 5. 

Re pros, Niners @ Hawks, Dalton Gang @ Carson's Cards. I'll take Niners and 15, and Dalton Gang and 5.

Carson's been fined $11,576. How come 76? ha ha

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14179994/carson-palmer-arizona-cardinals-fined-league

Infamous Jameis is doing the Eagles.


----------



## Skilmarilion

woah, you look at CAR's schedule and they could actually clean up. But 4 of the next 5 on the road will make it tricky.

STL unfortunately come up short in another close one against someone purple on the road.

I think DEN could realistically sit Peyton until the last couple of weeks of the regular season - that's assuming that they will indeed feel the need to bring him back over Brock.

Colts also look sharp with Hasselbeck - he may just be a Top 15 QB right now. :tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Vikings could've used it at running back.


----------



## Vaneyes

In keeping with things, 1 - 1 with the professionals. 

Carson proved to be the consummate pro once again, leading his Cards to victory in the final seconds. Bengals Swiss cheese D, aside.

No pelvic thrusts.


----------



## Ukko

The Panthers are on a roll. "Could go all the way".


----------



## Vaneyes

Buffalo (5 - 4) @ The Brady Bunch (9 - 0) tonight, and the spread is 7 points!? Bellycheck and Brady caught cheating again, and not coaching/playing?


----------



## Vaneyes

They nailed the spread, 20 - 13.


----------



## Ukko

The Pats are in bad shape, especially on offense, for receivers and on the O-line. If the Broncos can score 20 next Sunday, they should win.


----------



## Vaneyes

CF Playoffs (new ranking): 1. Clemson; 2. 'Bama; 3. Oklahoma; 4. Iowa

http://espn.go.com/ncf/story/_/id/1...bama-crimson-tide-oklahoma-sooners-semifinals

Meanwhile, Lucky 13 is back at us. 

*WA State *@ Washington
*Iowa -2* @ Nebraska
Baylor @ *TCU +2*
Ohio St. @ *Michigan*
*Clemson -17* @ S. Carolina 
*N. Carolina -6* @ NC State
*'Bama -14* @ Auburn
Penn St. @ *Mich St.*
*UCLA +3* @ USC
ND @ *Stanford -4*
*Florida St. -2* @ Florida
*Texas A&M +6* @ LSU
*Okla -7* @ Okla St.


----------



## Skilmarilion

For the benefit of our American TC'ers.

*Week 12 Thanksgiving Picks*

PHI @ *DET*
*CAR* @ DAL
CHI @ *GB*

:tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Yo! Lucky 3. 

Eagles @ *Lions -3*
Panthers @* Cowboys -2*
Bears @ *Packers -9*


----------



## Vaneyes

Concussion is a tag word often used these days.

NFLers Frank Gifford (84) and Chuck Bednarik (89) both died in 2015. Gifford's autopsy revealed signs of head trauma, probably not helped by Bednarik's massive but legal 1960 hit.

Bednarik, according to daughter Charlene, suffered from Alzheimer's and the effects from his profession.

Related...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14222869/frank-gifford-suffered-cte-according-family

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000149536/Chuck-Bednarik-knocks-out-Frank-Gifford


----------



## Kivimees

Situation: Lions 3 and 17 at about the Eagles 25. Some seconds left in the first half.

Studio Talking Heads: "I expect the Lions to be very conservative on this play."

Play: Touchdown pass into the end-zone.

:lol:


----------



## Vaneyes

I think the Carolina & Dallas (2-point faves) injury lists, specifically Romo-readiness, got by the oddsmakers.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/injury-report

A stroll down memory lane...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> I think the Carolina & Dallas (2-point faves) injury lists, specifically Romo-readiness, got by the oddsmakers.:


Yeah, I saw that line before the game and thought it was just ludicrous. If people still aren't taking CAR seriously, they really better hurry up in doing so. Loved that second Kuechly pick where he covers Witten moving away from the football and collects it over his shoulder. Can't assume there are many other 'backers who can do that in the league right now. And Cam - I'd love to see him take home the MVP.

Missed the Lambeau game - don't know what's up with the Pack. Sounds like the offense is missing Nelson more than they thought they would.

Feels like there's a lot of middle-of-the-road teams this year who can produce a really garbage performance one week, but then an excellent performance the next. I'm liking CAR for now. Don't write off SEA as a wildcard threat, especially if Rawls keeps imitating Barry Sanders.


----------



## Vaneyes

"Don't know what's up with the Pack."

Exactly. Normally, Cutler can't carry Mr. Rodgers' purse, er, I mean jockstrap. 

Then there's this display of championship football...


NFC East TeamWLT







PctPFPANet PtsTDHomeRoadDivPctConfPctNon-ConfStreakLast 5New York Giants550.50027325320293-22-32-2.5004-4.5001-11L2-3Washington Redskins460.400221253-32244-10-51-1.5004-3.5710-31L2-3Philadelphia Eagles470.364243274-31282-32-42-2.5003-6.3331-13L1-4Dallas Cowboys380.273204261-57201-52-32-2.5002-7.2221-11L1-4


----------



## Vaneyes

The Gators looked malnourished. Fo' 'Bama? Feed 'em mo'
meat, and get 'em in the weight room. 

Go Noles!

A masterful week of picks, 7 - 6.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> Then there's this display of championship football...



Looks like there's only 9 out of 32 teams above .500 going into Sunday Week 12.

Now I don't know what that figure tends to generally be around, but that does feel really quite low.


----------



## Vasks

My Seminoles are good this year, not great, but good. Alabama is a quite good this year. So I almost feel sorry for the Gators next week....almost :lol:


----------



## Kivimees

Enjoying the NY Giants - Washington game. I have two sets of Talking Heads - one is at the game, the second is a group in a studio in London consisting of some former players and a single Englishman (skysports, I think). They're great!


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kivimees said:


> ... a studio in London consisting of some former players and a single Englishman (skysports, I think). They're great!


Kevin Cadle, former basketball coach.
Cecil Martin, former FB for Eagles and Bucs (I think).
Neil Reynolds, Englishman.

:tiphat:


----------



## hpowders

The Bucs looked dreadful against the Colts today. Tampa's not quite ready for prime time games.


----------



## Guest

Saw some good games this weekend.

The Notre Dame-Stanford game ended very excitingly. Notre Dame scoring near the end, only to have Stanford take it away with a field goal was great.

I stuck with the Baylor-TCU game. That was tedious. Those poor guys looked miserable, with a torrential downpour in ~20 degree weather (that's Fahrenheit, in case you are on the other side of the pond). Having to go to double overtime. TCU pulled it out.

I'm glad that some of the pretenders to the playoffs got knocked down, to make it more obvious who should go. Still some potential upsets, though. What will Michigan State do to Iowa? Will Florida give Alabama a challenge? I suppose UNC could give Clemson a run for their money, but I think Clemson will take it, and I think the No. 1 spot in the playoffs is theirs to lose.


----------



## Kivimees

Skilmarilion said:


> Kevin Cadle, former basketball coach.
> Cecil Martin, former FB for Eagles and Bucs (I think).
> Neil Reynolds, Englishman.
> 
> :tiphat:


Thank you for the information.  There is also a fourth member (who wasn't in the studio yesterday). His job includes explaining plays in mind-boggling detail to Mr Reynolds. He has at his disposal a screen complete with circles and arrows play forward and reverse etc. To be honest, given his accent, his rapid speech and the impenetrable jargon he uses, I don't get much insight from this. Mr Reynolds seems to understand (at least he nods knowingly!).


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Four teams for the CFP is too few. And who cares who wins the Pac-12 North versus Pac-12 South game anyway?

So....

They should de-emphasize the conference championship games and expand the CFP to eight teams. The first four games would be played on the weekend currently used for conference championship games − for example, this coming weekend. Then the semi-finals, then the final, as now. 

The conference championship games could still be held, but between the highest two teams not picked for the CFP.

The result would be more and better football, and a more satisfying way to pick the national champion without increasing the number of weekends played. 

Agreed?


----------



## Guest

I disagree - I think they should definitely do the conference championships, and only conference champions should be eligible for the playoffs. I realize that you might get a situation where arguably the two best teams are in the same conference, and so one gets excluded, but that is how it works in the NFL. It doesn't matter if the second best NFC team is better than the best AFC team - if you don't win your conference, you don't go to the big game (or games). 

The current 4-team playoff may still be too small, but it is better than the previous system. I have more faith that you can pick the 4 best teams playing than the top 2. But what it precludes is any Cinderella stories, like what you may get with college basketball. I read somewhere that the last time you got a new surprise champion was something like 20 years ago with Florida. The system currently is stacked to crown the same core of teams year after year - the top SEC team, or the top ACC team, or the top Big 10 team, or the top Pac-12 team. Nobody else has a real shot. And that is the problem. I would be happy with a playoff system between all the conference champions.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Except that the college teams aren't neatly divided into 4 conferences. More like 5 major conferences plus several second-tier conferences as well as several independent teams. Note also the Big 12 doesn't even bother with a conference championship game, which some would argue gives them an unfair advantage in qualifying for the CFP.

In this context, choosing 8 teams for the CFP makes a lot more sense than trying to choose just 4. You can include all the major conferences plus one or two independents and one or two other worthy teams. The resulting playoffs would be much more exciting, and more likely to produce surprise winners.


----------



## Guest

I know they aren't all in just 4 conferences - the problem is that the current system is rigged so only those 4 power conferences really have a shot at winning. Everybody else is kidding themselves. They may all be FBS teams, but if you aren't in those top 4 conferences (or sometimes the Big 12), then forget it. The best you can hope is whatever bowl your conference has a contract with.

Like I said - force every conference to have a championship game, and send each conference champion to playoffs. Maybe allow for some wild cards. I agree with your idea that we need a bigger playoff - I just think you can incorporate conference championships into that system.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kivimees said:


> Thank you for the information.  There is also a fourth member (who wasn't in the studio yesterday). His job includes explaining plays in mind-boggling detail to Mr Reynolds. He has at his disposal a screen complete with circles and arrows play forward and reverse etc. To be honest, given his accent, his rapid speech and the impenetrable jargon he uses, I don't get much insight from this. Mr Reynolds seems to understand (at least he nods knowingly!).


Shaun Gayle, former Bears and Chargers Safety. Yep, given his expertise he does a lot of technical breakdown of certain plays!


----------



## Vaneyes

The CF playoff committee isn't working. Bozos, get rid of them. I don't care whether itsa 4-team play-off, or 8 team playoff. I kinda liked the old-fashioned way, but we won't return there.

Anyway, whether 4 or 8, I like computer-generated results picking the teams. About ten c-g results should do it. That'd reduce the impact of a couple of biases. 

Then, once the teams are picked, put numbered balls of 1 to 4, or 1 to 8 into a spinning machine. Have the balls pop out two at a time, those will be the pairings for each game, until the final match-up is obvious.


----------



## Triplets

A few random thoughts that occurred to me after watching highlights of the latest Lions Packers fiasco. Feel free to make your own contributions 
The Advantages Of Being A Detroit Lions Fan:
1) When downsizing, one never has to worry about making space for Super Bowl memorabilia
2) Arguments in taverns about the greatest Lions Quarterback of the last 50 years are short and rarely result in violence
3) When searching for great plays by the Lions to watch on YouTube, one is not bothered with a bewildering array of choices
4) One never has to worry about having their Super Bowl replica rings being stolen by associates of O.J. Simpson
5) You get to hang out and commiserate with Chicago Cub fans
6) You always get to see your team in the highlight reels of greatest plays by other teams
7) You have the security of knowing that the fate of your team is in the capable hands of one of the family that has so successfully led the American Automobile manufacturers to global success in the past 40 years
8) Books devoted to motivational speeches of successful Lion Coaches do not occupy precious shelf space
9) One never gets a false sense of superiority by associating with a successful sports franchise
10) Vacation planning in January becomes so much easier


----------



## GreenMamba

Triplets said:


> 2) Arguments in taverns about the greatest Lions Quarterback of the last 50 years are short and rarely result in violence


Found this list online. When Eric Hipple is #5 all-time, something's terribly wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/qzor33w

[link fixed(?)]


----------



## Triplets

GreenMamba said:


> Found this list online. When Eric Hipple is #5 all-time, something's terribly wrong.
> 
> https://www.detroitathletic.com/blog/2011/12/15/the-five-best-quarterbacks-in-lions-history/


It wouldn't open. It sounds tempting


----------



## Vaneyes

Looks like 1. Clemson vs 4. Michigan State and 2. Alabama vs 3. Oklahoma.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

And Stanford fans can live with a Rose Bowl berth against Ohio State or Iowa.


----------



## Vaneyes

Some college coaches are wound too tight, as illustrated by Dabo "Pizza" Swinney's tirade last night. 

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/12/dab...pionship-andy-teasdall-who-is-clemson-punter/


----------



## Vaneyes

"Looks like 1. Clemson vs 4. Michigan State and 2. Alabama vs 3. Oklahoma."

A change in plans. In the Committee's wisdom, MSU jumped Oklahoma, so the CFP looks like this... 1. Clemson vs. 4. Oklahoma, and 2. 'Bama vs. 3. MSU. I'll predict 'Bama and Oklahoma for the championship game.

Some bowl matchups--


Chick-fil-A Peach BowlHouston vs. Florida StateDec. 3112 p.m.ESPNCapital One Orange BowlNo. 1 Clemson vs. No. 4 OklahomaDec. 314 p.m.ESPNGoodyear Cotton Bowl ClassicNo. 2 Alabama vs. No. 3 Michigan StateDec. 318 p.m.ESPNOutback BowlNorthwestern vs. TennesseeJan. 112 p.m.ESPN2Buffalo Wild Wings Citrus BowlMichigan vs. FloridaJan. 11 p.m.ABCFiesta BowlNotre Dame vs. Ohio StateJan. 11 p.m.ESPNRose Bowl Game Presented by Northwestern MutualIowa vs. StanfordJan. 15 p.m.ESPNAllstate Sugar BowlOklahoma State vs. Ole MissJan. 18:30 p.m.ESPNTaxSlayer BowlGeorgia vs. Penn StateJan. 212 p.m.ESPNAutoZone Liberty BowlKansas State vs. ArkansasJan. 23:20 p.m.ESPNValero Alamo BowlTCU vs. OregonJan. 26:45 p.m.ESPNCactus BowlWest Virginia vs. Arizona StateJan. 210:15 p.m.ESPNCollege Football Playoff National Championship Presented by AT&T??Jan. 118:30 p.m.ESPN


----------



## hpowders

Wow! What a terrific New Orleans/Carolina game today AND my Bucs won too-still in the wildcard running!!


----------



## brotagonist

I wish I could have watched  but I was outside all day and it was beautiful


----------



## Avey

brotagonist said:


> i wish i could have watched  but i was outside all day and it was beautiful


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

nfl


----------



## Vaneyes

The lawsuit that was bound to happen, happened. $arki$ian $ue$ U$C for wrongful termination.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...iles-wrongful-termination-lawsuit-usc-trojans


----------



## Vaneyes

*Big 12* makes a move to toughen its football scheduling.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-team-notre-dame-fighting-irish-going-forward


----------



## Vaneyes

Missouri legislator proposes bill to strip football players of their scholarships should they strike. And Coaches who support striking players would be fined.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ll-revoke-student-athlete-scholarships-strike


----------



## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Missouri legislator proposes bill to strip football players of their scholarships should they strike. And Coaches who support striking players would be fined.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/college-football...ll-revoke-student-athlete-scholarships-strike


I could get behind that legislation.


----------



## Vaneyes

Here they iz, CF fans. Muh *Lucky 25* bowl picks. 

*BYU +3* vs Utah
*Miami +3* vs WA State
*WA -9* vs S. Miss.
*UCLA -7* vs Nebraska
*Pitt +4* vs Navy
C. Mich. vs *Minn -6*
*Cal -7* vs Air Force
*UNC +2* vs Baylor
*LSU -8* vs TT
*Auburn -3* vs Memphis
NC St. vs *Miss St. -6*
T. A&M vs *Louisville-1*
*USC -3* vs Wisc.
Houston vs *FSU -8*
*Okla. -4* vs Clemson
*Mich. St.+10* vs 'Bama
*NW +9* vs Tenn.
*Mich. -5* vs FLA
ND vs *OSU -7*
Stanford vs *Iowa +7*
Okla St. vs *Ol' Miss -8*
Penn St. vs *GA -7*
KSU vs *ARK -11*
*Oregon* vs TCU
WVU vs *ASU*


----------



## Vaneyes

TNF: *Bucs +3* @ Rams.


----------



## hpowders

Big game for the Bucs tonight against the Rams. Looks like the Rams are headed back to LA.

Back in the day, this would have been a fantastic matchup-the best defense in the league against Kurt Warner and the high powered St. Louis offense. Sad how these two teams have fallen.

I hear both teams got a huge delivery of Crest toothpaste for the holidays.

That way, both these teams, after vigorous brushing, can appear to be crestfallen.


----------



## Kivimees

Okay, my understanding is that an invitation to a Bowl game is meant to reflect merit of the teams that participate. Is the St. Petersburg Bowl reserved for the two dullest teams in college football?


----------



## Guest

Kivimees said:


> Okay, my understanding is that an invitation to a Bowl game is meant to reflect merit of the teams that participate. Is the St. Petersburg Bowl reserved for the two dullest teams in college football?


Not all bowls are created equal. You have to have a winning record to get a bowl invitation, and the different bowls have agreements with the different conferences as to who they can invite. Not every game is going to feature an exciting match-up.


----------



## Kivimees

Watching Jets-Patriots.

Who are these strangers sitting in the SkySports studio in London? Where are my favourite studio talking heads?


----------



## Vaneyes

Sports dopers exposed?

http://deadspin.com/here-is-the-full-documentary-that-alleges-peyton-mannin-1749848850


----------



## EricABQ

For that last 15 years I have participated in a bowl pick'em pool at work. I have never won it. 

This year I have a decent look at it. I need two of these three teams to win, and I will finally claim the title: Ole Miss, Georgia, and Clemson. If two of those three lose, I'm a runner up. The runner up gets exactly %0 of the pot.

We'll see what happens.


----------



## Pyotr

Very disapointing bowl games the last few days. Every one has been over by half time. :-(


----------



## Vaneyes

EricABQ said:


> For that last 15 years I have participated in a bowl pick'em pool at work. I have never won it.
> 
> This year I have a decent look at it. I need two of these three teams to win, and I will finally claim the title: Ole Miss, Georgia, and Clemson. If two of those three lose, I'm a runner up. The runner up gets exactly %0 of the pot.
> 
> We'll see what happens.


Clemson may lose 'gainst 'Bama, but I don't see Ole Miss and GA losin' to Okla St and Penn St respectively. But *then, *what the hell do I know? I'm sittin' at 9 - 11 with five games left.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Vaneyes said:


> Stanford vs *Iowa +7*


You've been losing money all season betting against Stanford. I expected them to lose, but that's because I was cheering for them!

Stanford made Iowa look like a high school team, especially in that first half. :guitar::trp::clap:


----------



## Pyotr

Pyotr said:


> Very disapointing bowl games the last few days. Every one has been over by half time. :-(


Halftime at the Sugar Bowl: 
Oklahoma State: 6
University of Mississippi : 34

Another bowl bites the dust, I'm going to bed.


----------



## Triplets

It was up to Michigan and Ohio State to save some honor for the Big Ten


----------



## Vaneyes

Grizzled Ghost said:


> You've been losing money all season betting against Stanford. I expected them to lose, but that's because I was cheering for them!
> 
> Stanford made Iowa look like a high school team, especially in that first half. :guitar::trp::clap:


----------



## EricABQ

What looked like an easy Georgia win for me turned into a bit of a heartburn, but they managed to hold on.

I have finally broken through and won our official bowl pool after 15 years of close calls.

The title is nice, the $150 in the pot is even nicer.


----------



## Vaneyes

EricABQ said:


> What looked like an easy Georgia win for me turned into a bit of a heartburn, but they managed to hold on.
> 
> I have finally broken through and won our official bowl pool after 15 years of close calls.
> 
> The title is nice, the $150 in the pot is even nicer.


Congrats, Eric.

Sadly, the 7-point GA win was nothin' more than a tie for me.

This bonus pick may get me out of the doldrums.* 'Bama -7* vs Clemson.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

^^^ Ok, I'm gonna take the opposite side of that bet.

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Vaneyes

"**** storm of sins" last night. Oregon flips then flops aka blowing a 31 - 0 lead. Arizona State lose in a thriller, 43 - 42. Excedrin moments, both.

11 - 13 - 1


----------



## Vaneyes

Coughlin resigns as Giants coach after 12 seasons


----------



## Vaneyes

Ricky Aquayo follows in his brother's footsteps.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2016/...kicker-florida-state-seminoles-early-enrollee


----------



## Vaneyes

My 4 lucky picks. 

Kansas City @ *Houston +3*
*Pittsburgh -3* @ Cincinnati

Seattle @ *Minnesota +5*
*Green Bay +1* @ Washington


----------



## Selby

My NFL Playoff picks are in - winners in *bold*. Congratulations Seattle. 

AFC

_Wildcard _
*Chiefs* @ Texans
*Steelers* @ Bengals

_Divisional_
*Chiefs* @ Pats
Steelers @ *Broncos*

_Championship_
*Chiefs* @ Broncos

NFC

_Wildcard _
*Hawks* @ Viks
Packers @ *Skins*

_Divisional_
Skins @ *Cards*
*Hawks* @ Panthers

_Championship_
*Hawks* @ Cards

Superbowl 50
*Hawks* & Chiefs


----------



## Bulldog

My picks for this weekend:

Seahawks over Vikings
Bengals over Pittsburgh
Chiefs over Texans
Redskins over Packers


----------



## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> My 4 lucky picks.
> 
> Kansas City @ *Houston +3*
> *Pittsburgh -3* @ Cincinnati
> 
> Seattle @ *Minnesota +5*
> *Green Bay +1* @ Washington


Interesting ... 

*Wildcards*

*KC -3* @ HOU 
PIT @ *CIN +3*

*SEA -5* @ MIN
*GB +1* @ WAS


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Winners in *BOLD*:

*Chiefs* @ Texans

Steelers @ *Bengals*

Seahawks @ *Vikings*

*Packers* @ Redskins

Anybody betting on the Seahawks should look at the expected game-time temperature in Minneapolis, MN.


----------



## Dawood

For what it's worth - my predictions are:

*Chiefs* @ Texans

*Steelers* @ Bengals

*Seahawks* @ Vikings

Packers @ *Redskins*


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Barring a huge comeback, most of us got the Chiefs v Texans call right − 5 out of 6.

The bets are split 50-50 on the next game.

Oh the excitement!


Updated: 

Chiefs - Bulldog, Dawood, Grizzled, Selby, Skilmarilion :clap:
Texans - Vaneyes 

Steelers - Dawood, Selby, Skilmarilion* :clap:
Bengals - Bulldog, Grizzled, Vaneyes* 
* on points

Seahawks - Bulldog, Dawood, Selby, Skilmarilion
Vikings - Grizzled, Vaneyes

Packers - Grizzled, Skilmarilion, Vaneyes
Redskins - Bulldog, Dawood, Selby


----------



## Skilmarilion

Grizzled Ghost said:


> ...
> Steelers - Dawood, Selby, Skilmarilion* :clap:
> Bengals - Bulldog, Grizzled, Vaneyes*
> * on points
> ...


Bit confused - I picked CIN +3, which worked out nicely. Too bad I don't put money on these picks!

Vaneyes - I assume if Hoyer ever starts another playoff game, you'll be picking the other team. 

btw, those last couple of minutes in the PIT-CIN game were unbelievable. Not really sure what I think of Pacman's penalty, but the one on Burfict may as well have been 30 yards given what he tried to do there. Simply amazing what Roethlisberger came up with there.

In any case, CIN had possession in PIT territory and put the ball on the floor. The 2-pt conversion was absolutely horrible as well. Too bad, because the Bengals have been very solid over a long period of time now, and a combination of bad luck with injuries and incompetence keeps costing them in the playoffs. They will probably take a long look at Marv Lewis, but removing him serves no purpose imo.

Also, the SEA-MIN line has moved but I'll stick with the Seahawks: *SEA -4*.


----------



## Vaneyes

"Now let me get this straight. Kansas City are 3-point faves and win by 30. Pittsburgh are 3-point faves and win by 2."


----------



## Ukko

The Steelers - Bengals game was a nightmare. If we use the "logic" applied to gun owners, the National Football League should be banned.

Burfict is a nutjob. Adam Jones reverted to Pacman (mouth disconnected from brain). McCarron got his mojo together in the 4th qtr, but that just made the end minutes harder on the Cincinnati crowd.

Now the survivors move on to Denver -taking Big Ben's shoulder and A. Brown's concussion with them.


----------



## Bulldog

That Bengals game was certainly entertaining. Bengals turned into a "dirty and dumb" team, insuring a loss. The problem for the Steelers is that Big Ben is not in good shape and A. Brown likely won't be playing at all in Denver. 

As for Marvin Lewis, he has to go for two reasons - no playoff wins and inadequate control over his players.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Skilmarilion said:


> Bit confused - I picked CIN +3, which worked out nicely.


I was confused too. You and Vaneyes specified the point spread when you bet; but the rest of us didn't. So I treated punters like me who picked Cincinnati without specifying +3 as losers; and likewise punters who picked Pittsburgh without giving up points as winners.

Weird, I know, and probably not realistic, but sorta fair. Maybe.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Grizzled Ghost said:


> I was confused too. You and Vaneyes specified the point spread when you bet; but the rest of us didn't. So I treated punters like me who picked Cincinnati without specifying +3 as losers; and likewise punters who picked Pittsburgh without giving up points as winners.
> 
> Weird, I know, and probably not realistic, but sorta fair. Maybe.


Okay, gotcha. 

Will report back after 'hawks-vikes.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Ok, let's see if I can do this justice:

Seahawks: Bulldog, Dawood, Selby :tiphat:
Vikings (+5): Vaneyes :tiphat:


Vikings: Grizzled 
Seahawks (-5): Skilmarilion 


Somehow it just doesn't seem fair! If you factor in the point spread, I would be 3-0. Instead I'm 1-2.


----------



## Dawood

Yes. 3 and 0 on predictions... :lol:

I really really really felt for the Vikings kicker though. Oh my god. I really did...


----------



## EricABQ

As a lifelong Seahawk fan that was obviously a pretty exciting win.

However, let's face facts. The offense was horrible. Wilson made exactly one play, they couldn't get anything going in the passing game and the play calling was atrocious.

On the other hand, the defense was fantastic.

I need a drink.


----------



## Bulldog

The Seahawks had me so frustrated that I was drinking during the game. They lucked out on this one, and I agree that the play calling was bad. Seattle will have to step it up quite a bit in order to have any chance against Carolina.


----------



## EricABQ

Watching the Seahawks try and get first downs in the fourth quarter to put away games has been an ongoing frustration this season. Their inability to do so cost them both the Bengal game and the Panther game this year and should have cost them today.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Oh boy. Too bad for Walsh, but the game came down to the incredible Wilson play (although Captain didn't make the play in the backfield) and Kam's strip on AP.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Ok this one is easy:

Packers - Grizzled, Skilmarilion, Vaneyes :clap:
Redskins - Bulldog, Dawood, Selby 

I'm 2-2 based on simple win-loss; but 4-0 with the point spreads.

Not bad, but I'd rather win the Powerball lottery.

By the way, if you bet Packers +1 and the Redskins win by 1, what happens? Is it a tie?


----------



## Vaneyes

"2 fer 2, that's better."


----------



## Skilmarilion

Grizzled Ghost said:


> By the way, if you bet Packers +1 and the Redskins win by 1, what happens? Is it a tie?


_"A push is when the game you wagered on ends exactly on the point spread that you wagered on. You do not win or lose money in terms of the amount you wagered. It is as if the bet never happened."_

So yeah, a tie. :tiphat:


----------



## Dawood

Okay - it get's a bit tricky now.

[email protected] *New England*

Pittsburgh @ *Denver*

*Seattle* @ Carolina

Greenbay @ *Arizona*

I'm kinda thinking what with this weeks 'All the visiting teams win' this could very be a 'All the Home Teams win' weekend. But no, I sensing something amiss in the NFC. I'm thinking Seattle are knocking out those cats.

(I really don't want to see a New England vs Denver AFC championship but it does seem slightly inevitable...)

What I really want to see is a Kansas vs Green Bay Superbowl with a Kansas victory. Like it's revenge 49 years later...


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

I'm just gonna pick the teams I like more:

*Kansas City Chiefs (+5)* @ New England Patriots

*Pittsburgh Steelers (+6.5)* @ Denver Broncos

Seattle Mariners @ *Carolina Panthers (-3)*

*Green Bay Packers (+7)* @ Arizona Cardinals

Also:

Alabama Crimson Tide vs. *Clemson Tigers (+ 6.5)* ut:


----------



## EricABQ

To get on record for tonight, I like Alabama -6.5.


----------



## Grizzled Ghost

Hot Dang! I squeaked by on points.


----------



## Vaneyes

"We beat Van and the spread. Pizza for everyone!"


----------



## Guest

Roll Tide Roll, baby!!!!!


----------



## Vasks

That was a very good game. Two evenly matched teams. That onside kick was the game decider.


----------



## Vaneyes

Rams & Chargers to share stadium in Inglewood?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-los-angeles-owners-meeting-htmlstory.html


----------



## EricABQ

Former Nebraska star Lawrence Phillips found dead in his prison cell from apparent suicide. 

He was doing a 31 year prison sentence and also facing a first degree murder charge for killing his cell mate last year.


----------



## Skilmarilion

*LOS ANGELES RAMS*

Will be weird to think I support an L.A. team now. 

This was on the cards for a long while now. As a Rams fan I know the support in STL was better than the media was willing to admit - but ultimately, it was never quite top tier, nor was the Edward Jones Dome and nor were the initial reasons for moving to St. Louis in the first place.

It's a shame that they've lost the Cardinals and the Rams now, but I guess in the grand scheme of things this probably isn't among the more controversial relocations that have gone down (unlike the Browns or SuperSonics) ...

The more I read, the more of a shame it seems it'd be if the Bolts leave SD. Raiders too, to a lesser extent. Chances are the Chargers will end up sharing the stadium with the Rams, although I'm not sure two teams competing for that fan base is necessarily the best thing. Ideally, the Raiders would just move into the Niners' Santa Clara complex ... lol.


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## Vaneyes

My Lucky 4 NFL picks. 

KC @ *NE -5*
GB @ *AZ -7*
SEA @ *CAR -2*
PITT @ *DEN -7*


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## Selby

I was 1 game off for Wild Card weekend, but that actually did not affect my divisional picks, winners in bold:

*KC *@ NE
GB @ *AZ*
*SEA* @ CAR
PIT @ *DEN*


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## Skilmarilion

Using bet365 lines, my picks:

*KC +5* @ NE
*GB +7* @ AZ 
*SEA +1.5* @ CAR
PIT @ *DEN -7.5* (tentative pick - we may still hear news on Ben)

btw - if it were money line only, I'd keep all those picks except the Packers.


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## EricABQ

I should get in here quickly before kickoff....

I like NE -5. Brady is 6 - 1 following the bye week. I'll bet with the trend on this one.

GB + 7. Wouldn't take them straight up, but believe they can cover that.

CAR -1.5. Seattle's offense is too inconsistent to like them here. 

Pitt +7.5. I have no faith in Manning at this point. Think Denver will win, but more in the 3 to 6 point range.


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## EricABQ

That first drive didn't look particularly difficult for the Pats.


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## Skilmarilion

A few thoughts:

1. Did anyone else think that Amendola cheap shot was one of the more disgusting plays they've ever seen? Oh wait - since it's the Patriots we can conveniently ignore it and hail Brady and Belichick for the fifteen millionth time. 

2. LMAO at KC's time management / strategy. I'm not even talking about at the end because I turned the game off at 27-13. They spiked the ball on first and goal at the end of the first half. Stupid. They punted from the Patriots 41 (I think) and 37 in the first half. Also stupid. Is it so much to ask that for once we get some competent teams to beat the unbelievably overrated Patriots and Broncos?

3. I can't understand how the Cards give up that 4th and 20 and then the hail mary to Rodgers. Two of the worst defensive plays ever, and not just because Rodgers did the hail mary against DET only a few weeks ago. When you see the last play, there are 6 Cards lineman rushing the passer (more like falling down at the line of scrimmage). Absolutely unbelievable. You need to rush 3 lineman and plant 8 defenders in the end zone and stop the play. It's that simple.

4. Looking forward to SEA-CAR.


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## Dawood

I really want Carolina to advance because Ron Rivera (ex-Bears player and I'm a Bears fan) is the head coach but I just have this feeling that the Seahawks aint going nowhere. And after seeing the GB-Arizona highlights I'm wondering if it ain't just going to be the Seahawks in the Superbowl again.

Larry Fitzgerald though - in overtime - running like a kid in the playground - 'you ain't tagging me - you ain't tagging me!' Awesome.

I've seen that Clay Matthews has commented on the idea that both teams should get a go with the ball in OT. At first I was like 'yeah - sore loser.' But then I thought - maybe there is something in the idea. But, having said that - you are the defense - doesn't matter if they go first: stop them.


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## Vaneyes

"What can you say...7 points is often too much to give up in the pros."


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## Skilmarilion

Vaneyes said:


> "What can you say...7 points is often too much to give up in the pros."


I'm 4-2 so far against the spread. (would be 5-1 if I didn't have a "don't ever pick NE" rule) 

btw I really, really think GB should have gone for 2 down 20-19. What are 2-pt success rates? About 45%? Pretty good compared to the chances of them completing two 50+ yard heaves with time winding down. And it's Rodgers.

Also, Mike McCarthy says "I don't know what the hell a catch is anymore". Well, at least it wasn't on this one:


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## Grizzled Ghost

After 17 minutes:
Seattle 0
Carolina 24

Is it fair to say that Seattle is getting off to a slow start? ESPN has an in-game win probability stat, which gives Seattle a 1.8% chance of making a comeback.

Update: Ouch! This is getting ugly. Now 31-0. Win probability now just 0.8% Seattle total yardage at the moment is 17 yards.


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## Dawood

I sent up ten year old step-son to bed: 'mate, you've got to go to bed now, because it's a school night and besides if you do Seattle will execute an amazing comeback.'

Well, it almost happened...


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## Dawood

As the Pittsburgh vs Denver game plays out, NFL.com currently has the following headlines: 

'A Half for History: Peyton Manning could be facing the final half of his career unless he can pull out a win vs. the Steelers'

and just a little further down the page a video on Peyton Manning with the headline: 'Never count a legend out.'

Mixed messages much?


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## Grizzled Ghost

My bets:
*Kansas City Chiefs* (+5) @ New England Patriots
*Green Bay Packers* (+7) @ Arizona Cardinals
Seattle Mariners @ *Carolina Panthers* (-3)
*Pittsburgh Steelers* (+6.5) @ Denver Broncos

Scores:
Kansas City Chiefs 20 @ *New England Patriots* 27 
Green Bay Packers 20 @ *Arizona Cardinals* 26 :tiphat: won on points
Seattle Mariners 24 @ *Carolina Panthers* 31 :lol:
Pittsburgh Steelers 16 @ *Denver Broncos* 23 

Technically I'm 2 for 4, but 3 of my teams lost.


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## Vaneyes

2 - 1 - 1.

Next week should be easy pickings. Odds N/A. *NE* @ DEN. AZ @ *CAR*.

Not impressed with Carolina's half a ballgame today. They better play 60 minutes from here on. Join the conversation.


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## Vaneyes

Skilmarilion said:


> I'm 4-2 so far against the spread. (would be 5-1* if I didn't have a "don't ever pick NE" rule) *
> 
> btw I really, really think GB should have gone for 2 down 20-19. What are 2-pt success rates? About 45%? Pretty good compared to the chances of them completing two 50+ yard heaves with time winding down. And it's Rodgers.
> 
> Also, Mike McCarthy says "I don't know what the hell a catch is anymore". Well, at least it wasn't on this one:


Yep, it can be a smelly biz sometimes.


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## Skilmarilion

Oh boy, 1-3 this week for me. That leaves me at 4-4 against the spread so far.

Early in the week, I like DEN and CAR to meet in the Super Bowl. 

Things just seem to go right for the Broncos just when they need it to this season. They're at home. Manning can give them just enough to get by. The D is strong. The Patriots have one of the worst rushing attacks ever. And hey, I never pick the Pats. :tiphat:


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## Grizzled Ghost

NE @ *DEN*

AZ @ *CAR*

Let's hope the home field advantage works again.


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## Dawood

*NE* @ DEN
*AZ* @ CAR

Although I find it difficult to believe that both away teams are going to win in the Championship finals I really can't see either Denver or Carolina advancing past their opponents. New England are, well, New England and they could have just has easily been facing Pittsburgh. I don't want Denver is the Superbowl. The NFC will destroy them.

I watched the Carolina / Seahawks game and I dunno, I'm wondering about the fire in the Panther's team - and lack there of. I haven't seem them play much so I can't really comment.

However, having seen the extensive Arizona / GB highlights I can see that, despite the hick-ups, there's no questioning the spirit in that team.


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## EricABQ

Taking DEN and CAR. 

One dog and one favorite.


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## Vaneyes

ESPN's "Big Reveal" could've been written by Brady's publicist. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14615476/new-england-patriots-qb-tom-brady-big-reveal

*NE -3 *@ DEN - Overall, Brady owns Manning. Playoffs, 2 - 2.
AZ @* CAR -3* - Panthers must play 60 minutes.


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## Grizzled Ghost

I'll give and take points, whatever the appropriate spread:

NE @ *DEN +3*
AZ @ *CAR -3*

I have a feeling Denver will need those points more than Carolina.


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## Skilmarilion

Title Games

NE @ *DEN +3*

ARZ @ *CAR -3*


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## EricABQ

One of the things most amusing about watching CBS broadcasts is just how awful at his job Mike Carey is. Seems like he's wrong most of the time they go to him. 

And Simms is just insufferable.


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## EricABQ

Obviously a great performance by the Denver D. I thought the offense would let them down in the 4th by giving the ball back to Brady one too many times but they made one last play to win it. Very impressive. Great, entertaining game. 

Having said that, I will be shocked if the NFC team doesn't win the Super Bowl m


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## arpeggio

Since the only team left in the playoffs I care about is out, I really do not care who wins the Superbowl.


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## EricABQ

arpeggio said:


> Since the only team left in the playoffs I care about is out, I really do not care who wins the Superbowl.


That's the beauty of gambling. Even if your team is out having a little action gives you a reason to care.


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## Grizzled Ghost

JUST AFTER THE HALFTIME BREAK:
I think the fact that the Panthers lost their momentum in the second half last week and almost choked makes a poor second half much less likely tonight. 

I predict more points for the Panthers in the second half, a solid victory, and...

... a victory in the Superbowl as well!

This is a team that has the talent to blow out opponents.


UPDATE AFTER THE GAME: 
Well that was a blow-out. 49-15. I kinda thought Carolina would out-score them in the second half, but that was embarrassing.

:cheers::guitar::trp::clap::kiss:


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## Ukko

Carson Palmer may have had the worst half ever in a conference championship game.

The Denver D was magnificent in the first game.


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## Vaneyes

Bellycheck & Deflate Brady are too much in love. Fail. Three red zone FGs late would've got the job done.

Peyton has arisen, and Broncos D need to repeat. Won't happen. *Carolina -4 *over Denver.


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## EricABQ

I'll take CAR -4.5. 

I would have taken CAR -10.5 if that had been the line. 

I think Super Bow 48 provides a preview of what SB 50 will look like.


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## Dawood

Dawood said:


> *NE* @ DEN
> *AZ* @ CAR
> .


Wow, I was wrong. Like so wrong I was the opposite of right.

Still, congratulations to the Super Bowl 50 champions: Carolina Panthers...


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## Skilmarilion

EricABQ said:


> I'll take CAR -4.5.
> 
> I would have taken CAR -10.5 if that had been the line.
> 
> I think Super Bow 48 provides a preview of what SB 50 will look like.


Absolutely - Denver is nowhere near as good as two years ago, and this Carolina team might be the most complete I've seen.


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## Vaneyes




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## Vaneyes

I heard Cam Newton's been partying pretty hard, so that should lesson the odds.


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## Vaneyes

Wow, it's Super Bowl 50. Roman numerals get a rest for this one. Seems like yesterday, when I attended II, III, and V. III was the best of these--Joe Willie's inspirational prediction, followed by a classic performance.

Peyton is in similar shoes for "50", but we shouldn't expect a bold prediction. Unthinkables can happen. Especially when considerable time passes between the last playoff game and the championship.


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## Skilmarilion

Think I'm 6-4 vs. the spread so far. I've seen the line go up, but I'll still take the Panthers for SB 50:

DEN vs. *CAR -5.5*

:tiphat:


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## Dawood

I have to say, seeing some of those MVPs from the past fifty years coming out on to the field - I was thinking 'Christ, I remember when you were a young man...' Particularly Troy Aikman and Mark Rypien...

It was a bit depressing...


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

I liked Jerry Rice's Isaac Hayes look - those shades!

From 1984-1988 until girlfriends, careers etc. moved our lives into different directions it was a ritual for a few of us early 20-somethings who liked US Football to book the following Monday off and watch the SB live throughout once the pubs had shut (taking turns to host) - I was the only one whose favourite team won during those years. Happy days...


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## Dawood

I got into Football when I was around 13/14 so I wasn't able to see the Super Bowl live because it was always a school night! Then I kinda lost interest - in the pre-internet years it was fairly easy to loose contact with an american sport. In the last ten years I've drifted back in.

Now it's my step son who hates not being able to stay up and watch the big game


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## elgar's ghost

Oh, God...Coldplay, Beyoncé and Bruno Mars...


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## EricABQ

So far I estimated Denver's offense correctly but under estimated their D.


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## hpowders

elgars ghost said:


> Oh, God...Coldplay, Beyoncé and Bruno Mars...


Beyoncé didn't look too cool in the upper thigh department if you know what I'm saying.


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## Tristan

That was a fairly dull game, to be honest. Low score throughout most of the time, and Carolina did not deliver. Exciting that it was being held here in my neck of the woods, but I'm not exactly jealous I didn't have tickets.


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## Huilunsoittaja

elgars ghost said:


> Oh, God...Coldplay, Beyoncé and Bruno Mars...


Don't forget Gustavo Dudamel! Did you see him?


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## Skilmarilion

An incredible defensive battle. A shame for CAR because they were lights out all game on D.

DEN got breaks constantly throughout this game. The upheld call on the challenged catch (btw, what the heck was that?) The Talib offside non-call on Gano's missed FG. Recovering the fumble on Newton's interception. etc. etc.

Anyway, congrats I guess. Lets hope Manning does the right thing and ends his career on this highest of highs.


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## elgar's ghost

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Don't forget Gustavo Dudamel! Did you see him?


Nope - the channel was switched as soon as I knew the above three were performing. :lol:


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## elgar's ghost

Is Peyton Manning the oldest starting QB to win a Superbowl ring?


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## brotagonist

Skilmarilion said:


> Lets hope Manning does the right thing and ends his career on this highest of highs.


Just like Favre did a few years ago :lol:


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## Skilmarilion

brotagonist said:


> Just like Favre did a few years ago


He didn't win the SB late in his career (it's a shame they didn't in '09).


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## Skilmarilion

elgars ghost said:


> Is Peyton Manning the oldest starting QB to win a Superbowl ring?


Apparently, yeah. And apparently, Big Ben holds the record for youngest.


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## Dawood

I like my defense but that game just felt off. I would not submit it as a show-piece for anyone interested in getting into football. I felt that both offences were lousy. Denver seemed to be pretty much, 'our defence is so strong today let's just go three and out to run the clock down'. And what was with Cam - like a little lost boy. I can't believe he didn't jump on that second fumble.

I switched the sound off the for the half time show and surfed the web but I couldn't help notice the Private School Boys jumping around and that James Brown wanna-be. Still, Beyonce's thighs looked like they could crush a car and I was reminded earlier, before the game, how I always find the US National Anthem quite moving... Unless it's being murdered by the latest fad, Disney singer.


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## Pyotr

Skilmarilion said:


> ..............................
> 
> Anyway, congrats I guess. Lets hope Manning does the right thing and ends his career on this highest of highs.


I believe there will be some clubs interested in signing him. There are teams out there desperate for a quarterback, and there's no can't-miss in this year's draft. The best free-agent QB is expected be Sam Bradford(if my team, the Eagles, decide not to re-sign him, and it doesn't look like they will). Sam's a guy who has missed more games than he played over the past three seasons. A lifetime 81.0 QB rating, and would lose to Peyton Manning in a match race, really!
Signing Peyton Manning would certainly sell tickets and maybe give a team a shot in the arm of enthusiasm.

I just hope he doesn't do what Brett Favre did, announced his retirement, then later on, unannounced it.


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## Triplets

Skilmarilion said:


> He didn't win the SB late in his career (it's a shame they didn't in '09).


That was bro's point.


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## Triplets

elgars ghost said:


> Is Peyton Manning the oldest starting QB to win a Superbowl ring?


I don't know but rumor has it that one reason NFL teams are still interested in signing him is that if he get's hurt, Medicare has to cover his rehab.


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## Skilmarilion

Triplets said:


> That was bro's point.


Right. I thought the post was alluding to Favre's (in)famous indecisiveness re: when to call it quits. :tiphat:


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