# Plagiarism in advance



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mozart's advance plagiarism of John Cage was mentioned in another thread. He seemed prone to this. Can anybody listen to the opening of the "Dissonance" quartet without thinking that he had the opening of Beethoven's 3rd Razumovsky in mind? Or that he wrote his Piano Quintet K.452 without using Beethoven's fine quintet in the same key as a model?

Other instances abound. Mendelssohn had obviously just seen Jaws when he wrote the first bars of his overture to Elijah. Sibelius, in a striking passage in the first movement of his 3rd Symphony, lifted wholesale a passage from Shore's score to the Fellowship of the Ring. Shore was victimized again by Britten, who based the Sanctus of his War Requiem on the "city music" from the score to Troy. And God knows that John Williams has been prey to many such pilferings.

Perhaps you can think of other instances of plagiarism in advance?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Certainly Dvorak's 9th symphony was also blatantly plagiarizing Jaws in advance with the intro to the finale. 

CPE Bach was certainly just stealing from Ludwig's 4th piano concerto with his C minor harpsichord concerto's(would be more useful if I could cite a work number for this) slow movement.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2013)

Yes Ken, you have just plagued me you crafty old so & so


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Andante said:


> Yes Ken, you have just plagued me you crafty old so & so


Well, theoretically he has, but for it to come full circle, you need to make this same thread sometime in the future, anytime really.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

90% or all film scores and video game music.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> 90% or all film scores and video game music.


Uh, isn't it the other way around?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Uh, isn't it the other way around?


That is more obviously true, but reverse plagiarism is certainly happening there too. The Pirates of the Caribbean main theme was reverse plagiarizing the theme music to the video game Oblivion. Dvorak and plenty of others were clever in being only debatably reverse plagiarizing with regards to the Pirates of the Caribbean main theme.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I have reverse-plagiarized a great deal of the innovations music will see in the next generation, but I'm just too darned lazy to publish anything. If you buy me dinner and drinks I'll hum a few of them for you.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Ervin Schulhoff - 'in futurum' (1919), a piano piece composed entirely of rests. Cage should have sued.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm pretty sure Puccini had seen _The Phantom of the Opera_ one too many times before writing _La fanciulla del West_


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

In a different field, Bob Dylan is going to sue the whole of America for stealing his new album Tempest a hundred years ago.

In his affidavit, he made many references to 'advance copies...'


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> Well, theoretically he has, but for it to come full circle, you need to make this same thread sometime in the future, anytime really.


But I have! don't you keep up to date?


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