# Carlos Kleiber would have been 90 today (3 July, 1930)



## Guest (Jul 3, 2020)

It doesn't take much to propel me into a Kleiber discussion. He was born 90 years ago and died 16 years ago next week. 74 is too young for a great conductor and his death was suicide, as generally believed. The evidence strongly points in that direction. Anyway, we deserve to be thinking about him on this anniversary:

Act 3, at 57 minutes here!! "Der Rosenkavalier". Strauss could be 'disorderly', but Kleiber is most certainly not!!






OMG


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

He’s frozen in my brain as a young man taking the classical world by storm with his Beethoven 5th. 90 is hard to contemplate.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

So... today Carlos Kleiber would have been dead anyway?


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2020)

Fabulin said:


> So... today Carlos Kleiber would have been dead anyway?


Since most of my own relatives are still going along (driving, Winnabago touring) at 90 plus then, no, not necessarily.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2020)

Watch Kleiber here with "Otello" waiting with aplomb for the Italian audiences to shut up!! From 1:08:37 and again at 1:46:42


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

One of the truly great conductors of the 20th Century for sure. The few Kleiber recordings I have in my collection are treasures!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Explain fascination with Kleiber


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> Explain fascination with Kleiber


I considered starting that thread but thought it'd be too inflammatory. It's a question I genuinely am curious to see answered though.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Earlier today, knowing that it’s Kleiber’s 90th birthday, I watched several YT videos of him conducting and rehearsing with orchestras. Genius. Maybe other top conductors were or are as able to channel their musical understandings through their orchestras, but I haven’t seen it. As a German speaker, I love hearing Kleiber’s expressive and simply beautiful speech and use of language with the other musicians.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> Explain fascination with Kleiber


Self evident to most music-lovers.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2020)

Simplicissimus said:


> Earlier today, knowing that it's Kleiber's 90th birthday, I watched several YT videos of him conducting and rehearsing with orchestras. Genius. Maybe other top conductors were or are as able to channel their musical understandings through their orchestras, but I haven't seen it. As a German speaker, I love hearing Kleiber's expressive and simply beautiful speech and use of language with the other musicians.


Great comments! I completely agree. Other conductors like Haitink (born 1929) and Blomstedt (born 1927) enjoy long and fruitful lives. Kleiber was a polymath and his (late) sister Veronica said in 2010 that he could have been a writer if he'd chosen that profession. She said he could have done anything he liked.

Presumably you've seen this rehearsal from 1970: "it doesn't wink"......"as if you took off with the cashbox"....."the quavers have too little nicotine"!

See how he stirs up those rusted-on Stuttgart players who've played this work many times before!!






Kleiber's real metier was opera, of course.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

He has been called the greatest non-conductor who ever lived


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

hammeredklavier said:


> Explain fascination with Kleiber


He could refresh "old" favourites like no-one else I've ever heard - I can nominate Beethoven 4,5,6 and 7, Brahms 2 and 4 and Schubert's "Unfinished" off the top of my head and there are probably more, though I suspect his somewhat limited recorded repertoire adds to the mystique.

As remarkable in its way, though, is the extent to which the fascination to which you refer is found among fellow practitioners of his. Conductors are (to say the least) not universally known for their generous-spiritedness, but so many of them place him at the top of their list. Smoke, fire etc?


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2020)

DavidA said:


> He has been called the greatest non-conductor who ever lived


Only by the most significant non-musical people who ever lived.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2020)

Animal the Drummer said:


> He could refresh "old" favourites like no-one else I've ever heard - I can nominate Beethoven 4,5,6 and 7, Brahms 2 and 4 and Schubert's "Unfinished" off the top of my head and there are probably more, though I suspect his somewhat limited recorded repertoire adds to the mystique.
> 
> As remarkable in its way, though, is the extent to which the fascination to which you refer is found among fellow practitioners of his. Conductors are (to say the least) not universally known for their generous-spiritedness, but so many of them place him at the top of their list. Smoke, fire etc?


You've certainly got that right!!


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## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

I wish dogs could live past 90. At least past 60, so I could take care of them in case I don't reach 90.
See how unfair is the world. Schubert dies at 31. He could have been 192 now, making his 1290318th lieder, and maybe a lot more unfinished masterpieces.
About Kleiber, who he is? Sounds like a Fast-food franchise - let's get some Burgers at Kleiber's!


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Got a lovely Beethoven symphony no 5 performed by VPO and him. Was recommended and never regretted it


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Imagine Beethoven living this long:

Li Ching-Yuen or Li Ching-Yun (simplified Chinese: 李清云; traditional Chinese: 李清雲; pinyin: Lǐ Qīngyún) (died 6 May 1933) was a Chinese herbalist, martial artist and tactical advisor, known for his supposed extreme longevity. He claimed to have been born in 1736, while disputed records suggest 1677, implying an age at death of 197 and 256 years, respectively. Both far exceed the highest verified ages on record.
His true date of birth was never determined. His claims are considered to be a myth by gerontologists. While his claims have not been verified, they have been widely circulated as an Internet hoax.


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## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Imagine Beethoven living this long:
> 
> Li Ching-Yuen or Li Ching-Yun (simplified Chinese: 李清云; traditional Chinese: 李清雲; pinyin: Lǐ Qīngyún) (died 6 May 1933) was a Chinese herbalist, martial artist and tactical advisor, known for his supposed extreme longevity. He claimed to have been born in 1736, while disputed records suggest 1677, implying an age at death of 197 and 256 years, respectively. Both far exceed the highest verified ages on record.
> His true date of birth was never determined. His claims are considered to be a myth by gerontologists. While his claims have not been verified, they have been widely circulated as an Internet hoax.


this is a music forum, not a hoax blog. Anyone who believes this nonsense, would be at the same league of those who believe in that moon conspiracy thing......Oh! I just remembered.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Christabel said:


> Only by the most significant non-musical people who ever lived.


Or people who don't get irony.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2020)

aioriacont said:


> I wish dogs could live past 90. At least past 60, so I could take care of them in case I don't reach 90.
> See how unfair is the world. Schubert dies at 31. He could have been 192 now, making his 1290318th lieder, and maybe a lot more unfinished masterpieces.
> About Kleiber, who he is? Sounds like a Fast-food franchise - let's get some Burgers at Kleiber's!


When dogs can discuss Kleiber I'll be concerned how long they live. Until then they are a fast food franchise themselves - in China. I'll have mine with fish sauce and bat, thanks. Woof. Ha-choo.


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