# Juilliard Quartet Bartók



## flamencosketches

I'm interested in the legendary Juilliard Quartet Bartók cycle recorded in the '60s, pictured here:










... but I can't seem to find it on CD. Does anyone here have this cycle on CD? All I can find on CD is the later '80s set and the 1950 cycle.


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## Triplets

It available as a download


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## Rogerx

You just beat me Triplets.
flamencosketches see this:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...g-quartet-celebrated-early-recordings-1949-52


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## jegreenwood

Rogerx said:


> You just beat me Triplets.
> flamencosketches see this:
> https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...g-quartet-celebrated-early-recordings-1949-52


Apparently unavailable from Presto in the U.S. Amazon seems to have it as an MP3 download.

It was my first Bartok cycle.


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## Rogerx

Another try then
Bookbutler

B00005UV71


See post by wkasimer


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## WildThing

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8270225--bartok-string-quartets-nos-1-6


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## wkasimer

The 1963 cycle was issued by French Sony about twenty years ago:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005UV71


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## jegreenwood

WildThing said:


> https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8270225--bartok-string-quartets-nos-1-6


That link works for me. The other Presto link did not.


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## CnC Bartok

I've got the 1963 cycle and the 1981 cycle by the Juilliards. Both are very good, the earlier one more consistent. Neither is among my favourites though, other sets have more pazzazz and authentic Hungarian flavour...


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## Triplets

jegreenwood said:


> Apparently unavailable from Presto in the U.S. Amazon seems to have it as an MP3 download.
> 
> It was my first Bartok cycle.


My computer shows both the mp3 and the flac available in the states


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## Triplets

Wasn't the sixties Julliard Qt cycle used asa prop in a Woody Allen movie? Allen is playing a nervous guy trying to impress a new girl coming to his apartment, and Diane Keaton is sort of a mentor to him? He worries about whether he should play the Julliard on the tt when she comes vs something jazzy, and she advises him to play the jazz but have the Bartok sitting prominently on the coffee table?


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## Triplets

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YqvH-Z+BL.jpg

Are we sure that the version above isn't the 1963 version? The Amazon reviewers seem to think it is


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## jegreenwood

Triplets said:


> Wasn't the sixties Julliard Qt cycle used asa prop in a Woody Allen movie? Allen is playing a nervous guy trying to impress a new girl coming to his apartment, and Diane Keaton is sort of a mentor to him? He worries about whether he should play the Julliard on the tt when she comes vs something jazzy, and she advises him to play the jazz but have the Bartok sitting prominently on the coffee table?


"Play It Again, Sam"

It started as a stage play (with both Allen and Keaton). I remember seeing it and have a copy of the script. The jazz album was Thelonius Monk. The Bartok was to be Quartet No. 5. The property plot lists album covers for those two artists but doesn't go into detail about any particular recording.


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## Triplets

I do have to watch but I am pretty sure the movie featured a brief glimpse of the album shown in the OP. Of course, in lieu of today’s story about Allen, his movies might be removed from public accessibility...


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## flamencosketches

Triplets said:


> Wasn't the sixties Julliard Qt cycle used asa prop in a Woody Allen movie? Allen is playing a nervous guy trying to impress a new girl coming to his apartment, and Diane Keaton is sort of a mentor to him? He worries about whether he should play the Julliard on the tt when she comes vs something jazzy, and she advises him to play the jazz but have the Bartok sitting prominently on the coffee table?


:lol: That's funny. I haven't seen that one but that's classic Woody Allen.



Triplets said:


> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YqvH-Z+BL.jpg
> 
> Are we sure that the version above isn't the 1963 version? The Amazon reviewers seem to think it is


I believe that is indeed the 1963 set, but who knows. There are so many Juilliard Quartet Bartók recordings going around.


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## Mandryka

By the way, I prefer the first set they made. The 1963 is good but the 1950 is better, sufficiently better to make me rarely want to hear the 1963.


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## Triplets

The 1963 set was ubiquitous and my only acquaintance with the music for years . I remember that my set was pressed on to really awful vinyl that frequently wouldn’t track, and the noisy surfaces completely ruined the effect of the slow movements. When the Emerson set came out on CD it was revelatory for me, both due to the staggering intensity of the playing of the quiet background. I played through the Emerson set recently and I still think it’s the finest thing they’ve ever done. I haven’t heard the Julliard set since the lp days but I’d like to hear a set by Hungarian players. I’ve recently become enamored with a recording of the 3rd PC with Ivan Fisher and Zoltan Kocsis with the Budapest Festival Orchestra, the first time that I have heard actual Hungarians play that work, and the playing and phrasing seems much more idiomatic than my previous recordings


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> By the way, I prefer the first set they made. The 1963 is good but the 1950 is better, sufficiently better to make me rarely want to hear the 1963.


Noted. Thanks, I'll check it out



Triplets said:


> The 1963 set was ubiquitous and my only acquaintance with the music for years . I remember that my set was pressed on to really awful vinyl that frequently wouldn't track, and the noisy surfaces completely ruined the effect of the slow movements. When the Emerson set came out on CD it was revelatory for me, both due to the staggering intensity of the playing of the quiet background. I played through the Emerson set recently and I still think it's the finest thing they've ever done. I haven't heard the Julliard set since the lp days but I'd like to hear a set by Hungarian players. I've recently become enamored with a recording of the 3rd PC with Ivan Fisher and Zoltan Kocsis with the Budapest Festival Orchestra, the first time that I have heard actual Hungarians play that work, and the playing and phrasing seems much more idiomatic than my previous recordings


I really like the Keller Quartet for a more Hungarian approach to Bartók's SQs. The Takács is also very famous but I have not heard it. I believe they recorded it twice, for Hungaroton and then Decca.

I really like the Emerson cycle too.


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## CnC Bartok

Triplets said:


> The 1963 set was ubiquitous and my only acquaintance with the music for years . I remember that my set was pressed on to really awful vinyl that frequently wouldn't track, and the noisy surfaces completely ruined the effect of the slow movements. When the Emerson set came out on CD it was revelatory for me, both due to the staggering intensity of the playing of the quiet background. I played through the Emerson set recently and I still think it's the finest thing they've ever done. I haven't heard the Julliard set since the lp days but I'd like to hear a set by Hungarian players. I've recently become enamored with a recording of the 3rd PC with Ivan Fisher and Zoltan Kocsis with the Budapest Festival Orchestra, the first time that I have heard actual Hungarians play that work, and the playing and phrasing seems much more idiomatic than my previous recordings


If you like that Kocsis Piano Concerto (and as far as I am concerned, that set is the best modern set of the Bartoks) then you should try the older Geza Anda recordings. Ferenc Fricsay conducting, and even if the Berlin Radio SO ain't particularly Hungarian (!) they are superb here, and this set is for me still the very best around.


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## flamencosketches

CnC Bartok said:


> If you like that Kocsis Piano Concerto (and as far as I am concerned, that set is the best modern set of the Bartoks) then you should try the older Geza Anda recordings. Ferenc Fricsay conducting, and even if the Berlin Radio SO ain't particularly Hungarian (!) they are superb here, and this set is for me still the very best around.
> 
> View attachment 131424


I've been listening to this nonstop lately. Very very good set. In fact it's my only Bartók PCs set, but I don't feel the need for another at this time.


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## hoodjem

*Bartok String Quartets Complete*
1. Vegh Quartet (Astree/Naive)
2. Julliard (1963 analogue, Sony/CBS)
3. Tokyo Quartet (DGG)
4. Novak Quartet (Phi)
5. Takacs Quartet (Decca)


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## Manxfeeder

Triplets said:


> I do have to watch but I am pretty sure the movie featured a brief glimpse of the album shown in the OP. Of course, in lieu of today's story about Allen, his movies might be removed from public accessibility...


It's hard to tell, but here's the clip.


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## wkasimer

Triplets said:


> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YqvH-Z+BL.jpg
> 
> Are we sure that the version above isn't the 1963 version? The Amazon reviewers seem to think it is


That image is the slipcase included with the set I posted in post #7.


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## Triplets

CnC Bartok said:


> If you like that Kocsis Piano Concerto (and as far as I am concerned, that set is the best modern set of the Bartoks) then you should try the older Geza Anda recordings. Ferenc Fricsay conducting, and even if the Berlin Radio SO ain't particularly Hungarian (!) they are superb here, and this set is for me still the very best around.
> 
> View attachment 131424


I listened to Anda/Fricsay twice last week in comparing it to the Kocsis/Fischer. They are both superb, I just give the edge to the Hungarian players, who sound just a tad more idiomatic to me.


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## CnC Bartok

Triplets said:


> I listened to Anda/Fricsay twice last week in comparing it to the Kocsis/Fischer. They are both superb, I just give the edge to the Hungarian players, who sound just a tad more idiomatic to me.


The Anda/Fricsay recordings were the first Bartok of any kind I heard, so for obvious reasons they are very prominent in terms of my affections. Anda is a little more prominent in No.2, which I prefer, but Kocsis is a bit less romantic in No.3, again which I prefer, in a work that could I suppose sound saccharine in the wrong hands. Swings and roundabouts in No.1; actually I reckon Kocsis' earlier recording under Gyorgy Lehel on Hungaroton is even better! So I'm certainly not going to question your evaluation of the two sets...!:tiphat:

Just to clarify, Anda, Fricsay, Kocsis and Ivan Fischer are all about as Hungarian as you can get. In these two sets only the Berlin RSO fail on that count, and it matters not a jot.


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## flamencosketches

CnC Bartok said:


> The Anda/Fricsay recordings were the first Bartok of any kind I heard, so for obvious reasons they are very prominent in terms of my affections. Anda is a little more prominent in No.2, which I prefer, but Kocsis is a bit less romantic in No.3, again which I prefer, in a work that could I suppose sound saccharine in the wrong hands. Swings and roundabouts in No.1; actually I reckon Kocsis' earlier recording under Gyorgy Lehel on Hungaroton is even better! So I'm certainly not going to question your evaluation of the two sets...!:tiphat:
> 
> Just to clarify, Anda, Fricsay, Kocsis and Ivan Fischer are all about as Hungarian as you can get. In these two sets only the Berlin RSO fail on that count, and it matters not a jot.


I know you're not accusing Anda of this, but I don't think the romanticism that he brings to the 3rd concerto (which I've just finished listening to) is saccharine at all. It results in probably the most successful slow movement of the whole set. Man, is that beautiful or what. They say he wrote this work shortly before his death so his second wife, a concert pianist, could have a likable, virtuosic concerto to play to earn her keep after he was gone. I would imagine with how much more accessible it was than the previous two that it worked out well for her.

Anyway I would like to hear the Kocsis/Fischer too, and the András Schiff/Fischer/BFO, too, for that matter.


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## Mandryka

It's so interesting that Bartok wrote these neo romatic pieces after moving to the States - Concerto for Orchestra, the third piano concerto and, I think, the 6th quartet leans uncomfortably in that direction. Presumably he did it for the dosh.


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## CnC Bartok

Mandryka said:


> It's so interesting that Bartok wrote these neo romatic pieces after moving to the States - Concerto for Orchestra, the third piano concerto and, I think, the 6th quartet leans uncomfortably in that direction. Presumably he did it for the dosh.


Why "uncomfortably"? There's nothing regressive about Bartok's later style.

And of the three works you mention, only the Concerto for Orchestra was explicitly commissioned (Koussevitzky), and even there he was irritatingly unwilling to accept "dosh" before it was done and dusted. I know he needed to make a living, but Bartók is possibly the last composer one could accuse of doing stuff for money (an insurance policy against his wife starving doesn't count.....!)


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## Mandryka

I think there is something regressive about the 3rd concerto.


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## Triplets

Mandryka said:


> I think there is something regressive about the 3rd concerto.


Let's not forget that his Health was precarious here, as he indeed died before he could finish the last bars. There is something about facing your mortality that can cause one to simplify, to become more accessible. What you describe as regressive I would call elegiac.
And the bird call music in the second movement is simply brilliant.


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## Mandryka

Triplets said:


> And the bird call music in the second movement is simply brilliant.


Yes and the whole thing is very agreeable. I didn't know it was valedictory, or could be construed as valedictory. I wonder now if there's a performance which somehow brings that out.

(Like Mozart PC 27)

But there's also a sense in which it's a rejection of the European avant garde pursuit of something new and fresh, something which breaks with the constraints of common practice. No obvious exploration of ideas in Webern or Hindemith, for example - compared with the central quartets it's a move backwards in time. And I guess that's why conservative concert hall audiences can palate it. That's what I was getting at with the provocative post I made earlier this morning.


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## perdido34

flamencosketches said:


> There are so many Juilliard Quartet Bartók recordings going around.


As far as I know, there are three Juilliard Bartok sets: 1949, 1963, 1981.


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