# Words you dislike



## MarkW

In various past careers I have been a writer. I have a good ear for language and was always fairly facile with words. English is a terrific language for writing. It contains lots of good words -- a plethora, even. Some would even say a surfeit. Nevertheless, there are words I tend not to use because they aren't me. And others that I realize I just don't like. So I thought it might be fun to compile a running list.

This was inspired because I realized today I don't like the word copacetic. I don't know about the UK, but over here it seems to be a five dollar word that people use simply because it's a five dollar word. I'm not sure it's needed.

Your turn . . .


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## SixFootScowl

I don't like the word, utilize. Why three syllables when you can use one.

I also don't like the use of "due to" when the person means "because of." Due to is a substitute for attributable to.

And a lot of people still write (or say) silly things like, "If you have any questions, please contact myself."


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## Forster

SixFootScowl said:


> "If you have any questions, please contact *myself*."


Yes. Someone, somewhere, misconstrued the idea that it's rude to say 'you' or 'me' so we're lumbered with a faux-officialese of 'yourself' and 'myself'. Absurd.

"Pivot". Political journalists love to talk about politicians 'pivoting towards' (Changing direction? Changing their mind?) Ugh.
"Albeit".

I've never heard of "copacetic" til you used it Mark. But that's copacetic by me !


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## Bulldog

I don't care for the word "eclectic". To me, it means unfocused.


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## Chilham

The habit of adding, "...ize", to almost any word in an attempt to turn it into a verb.


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## Art Rock

You mean to verbize it.....


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## mikeh375

I love the word 'so', but not at the start of a sentence and certainly not as the first word spoken in answer to a question....so there.


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## Kiki

SixFootScowl said:


> I don't like the word, utilize. Why three syllables when you can use one.
> ...


There is also the use of the word usage.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Sorry about this, but I sometimes try out the sound of a word by saying it many times in repetition. "Worm" is really bad...:devil:


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## Phil loves classical

It's overused expressions at work like "circling back to...", "we've been bending over backwards to... " that make me want to put my jacket on and go home.


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## Dorsetmike

Antidisestablishmentarianism


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## SanAntone

MarkW said:


> In various past careers I have been a writer. I have a good ear for language and was always fairly facile with words. English is a terrific language for writing. It contains lots of good words -- a plethora, even. Some would even say a surfeit. Nevertheless, there are words I tend not to use because they aren't me. And others that I realize I just don't like. So I thought it might be fun to compile a running list.
> 
> This was inspired because I realized today I don't like the word copacetic. I don't know about the UK, but over here it seems to be a five dollar word that people use simply because it's a five dollar word. I'm not sure it's needed.
> 
> Your turn . . .


When I hear the word "copacetic" I think of '50s detective stories. I don't have a running list of words I don't like other than words which become overused because of a fad: "whatever" - "actually" - "like" (as in "like, you know") and I don't like the gender neutral substitutes.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

I don't mind the gender neutral substitutes. They're very useful to have and should have been standardized long ago, political agendas aside

However, if someone wants to use "he" to describe an unidentified composer and "she" for a teacher, I won't make a big deal out of it.


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## elgar's ghost

Any buzzwords or phrases used in a corporate/business environment. And Soshul meeja slang used in any environment.


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## atsizat

elgars ghost said:


> Any buzzwords or phrases used in a corporate/business environment. And Soshul meeja slang used in any environment.


Such as?


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## elgar's ghost

atsizat said:


> Such as?


Ohhhh no - I'm not going down THAT road! :lol:


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## starthrower

Bulldog said:


> I don't care for the word "eclectic". To me, it means unfocused.


Music reviewers use it all the time. Even worse is their use of "thunderous", and "rock solid" when referring to drummers and bass players. More than words, it's cliched phrases and slogans I despise the most. A poor substitute for thinking and imagination.


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## eljr

MarkW said:


> In various past careers I have been a writer. I have a good ear for language and was always fairly facile with words. English is a terrific language for writing. It contains lots of good words -- a plethora, even. Some would even say a surfeit. Nevertheless, there are words I tend not to use because they aren't me. And others that I realize I just don't like. So I thought it might be fun to compile a running list.
> 
> This was inspired because I realized today I don't like the word copacetic. I don't know about the UK, but over here it seems to be a five dollar word that people use simply because it's a five dollar word. I'm not sure it's needed.
> 
> Your turn . . .


I love words. I guess, like with music, there are none I find fault with. 
Copacetic is a fine word, I have no quarrel with it.

I did find this sentence interesting. "... over here it seems to be a five dollar word that people use simply because it's a five dollar word." I don't run into this. I don't think in these terms at all. Maybe it is your past career as a writer that makes you so intolerant, judgmental?


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## eljr

Bulldog said:


> I don't care for the word "eclectic". To me, it means unfocused.


Interesting!

This and "minimal" are two of my favorite words.

Eclectic to me means artist and unique.

Yes, we all have our own perspectives.


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## Becca

'Greatest' for many reasons, most of which are frequently seen on this site.


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## atsizat

eljr said:


> Interesting!
> 
> This and "minimal" are two of my favorite words.
> 
> Eclectic to me means artist and unique.
> 
> Yes, we all have our own perspectives.


Eclectic means nothing to me


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## SixFootScowl

mikeh375 said:


> I love the word 'so', but not at the start of a sentence and certainly not as the first word spoken in answer to a question....so there.


So now you got me going on so.:lol:

People use the word "so" for emphasis. E.g., "I was so excited!" But "so" often begs for a "that," "I was so excited that I jumped up and down." Otherwise they should have said, "I was very excited." But even then, why the emphasis? Isn't excited enough?


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## SixFootScowl

Another one that can be heard in extemporaneous (ooo, somebody not going to like that word) prayers in church settings is "we just." This seems like a way to add a moment to think but you will hear this a lot, "Lord we just want to.." Superfluous words: "we just." And it is not true, there are many other things we want to ask in prayer so why preface so many of them with "we just," which suggests that is the only thing we want to ask?

Or how about the speakers who continually insert "um" into their talks? Nervous habit? And it is not just novices. I have heard PhDs talk with a lot of um insertions.


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## SixFootScowl

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Sorry about this, but I sometimes try out the sound of a word by saying it many times in repetition. "Worm" is really bad...:devil:


Oh yes, you can bring many words to absurdity by repeating them enough times.


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## SixFootScowl

Phil loves classical said:


> It's overused expressions at work like "circling back to...", "we've been bending over backwards to... " that make me want to put my jacket on and go home.


"At the end of the day...."

Arrrrgh! I can't stand that phrase!


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## SixFootScowl

So, maybe this thread is a subset of the Gripe of the Day thread?


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## Bwv 1080

I get more irritated by spoken conversation-

‘Basically’ 
‘I’m not in love with (some trivial detail) …’ - just say you don’t like it
‘This is my jam’ - Don’t know why, just hate this expression


In writing I get more irritated by unnecessary wordiness than particular words or sayings


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## Forster

SixFootScowl said:


> "At the end of the day...."
> 
> Arrrrgh! I can't stand that phrase!


What about "Moving forward"?


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## Chilham

Forster said:


> What about "Moving forward"?


As a general rule, words ending, "...ing", "...ment", "...able", and, "...tion", should be avoided wherever possible. They often obscure a dynamic verb.


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## Chilham

Bwv 1080 said:


> ... In writing I  get more irritated by unnecessary wordiness than particular words or sayings


_"Somebody has said that words are a lot like inflated money - the more of them that you use, the less each one of them is worth. 
Right on. Go through your entire letter just as many times as it takes. Search out and annihilate all unnecessary words and 
sentences - even entire paragraphs."_

A 52-word paragraph by Malcolm Forbes asking people to use fewer words. The irony is that Malcolm only needed 22 of those words to make his point.


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## Phil loves classical

"Just an FYI, ...."


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## Bwv 1080

Once I had to ban an employee from using any adverbs - he seemed to be unable to write a sentence without one


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## MarkW

An explanation: I've never seen copacetic written out -- only used verbally (and often, from my point of view, needlessly). That's what I meant by my "five dollar word" comment.


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## eljr

MarkW said:


> An explanation: I've never seen copacetic written out -- only used verbally (and often, from my point of view, needlessly). That's what I meant by my "five dollar word" comment.


What makes the use of a word "needless?"

The more words one uses, the more descriptive. The more descriptive, the better the communication. 
Language is evolved for just that, communication, no?


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## neofite

"Impact" has become one of the most overused and abused words in the English language in recent years, so much so that it has lost most of its 'impact,' and has even has spawned a host of derivatives such as "impactive," "impactful," and even "impactiveful"! This is despite there being plentiful good substitutes, including "result," "influence," "consequence," "ramification," and "repercussion," in addition to, of course, "affect" and "effect." I have read many news and technical articles in which "impact" is used numerous times, sometimes multiple times in the same paragraph, or even in the same sentence, while "affect" and "effect" are scarcely used, if at all. I would not be surprised if "effect" eventually becomes extinct and "cause and effect" is replaced by "cause and impact."


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## Roger Knox

eponymous - something named after a named person
to own - as in "own your mistake"
gendered (by who?)


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## Forster

eljr said:


> What makes the use of a word "needless?"
> 
> The more words one uses, the more descriptive. The more descriptive, the better the communication.
> Language is evolved for just that, communication, no?


Well, a tautology for a start.

More words might be neither more descriptive, nor more communicative. It rather depends on the purpose of the communication.


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## Chilham

eljr said:


> What makes the use of a word "needless?"
> 
> The more words one uses, the more descriptive. The more descriptive, the better the communication.
> Language is evolved for just that, communication, no?


No. Beautiful prose is beautiful prose, regardless of the number of words, but when writing to communicate, take Orwell's advice:

_"Never use a long word where a short one will do. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out."_


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## Art Rock

"Never use long words where short ones will do. Can you delete a word? Do it!"

Eight words less. :tiphat:


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## Forster

I liked Orwell's version better...more words, more descriptive.


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## Allegro Con Brio

“Very.”



…………………..


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## Ariasexta

"Economy", "Anti-depressant","Medication", these words get on my nerves. I think people who take medication on psychiatry is a kind of I do not want to offend here. Economy? just a code for speculators and opportunists while pretending to be a concern for everybody, who cares?


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## Bulldog

It bugs me when an individual uses "we" when offering a solo view or opinion. It's a cheap and dishonest way to buttress one's preferences.


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## eljr

Chilham said:


> No. Beautiful prose is beautiful prose, regardless of the number of words, but when writing to communicate, take Orwell's advice:
> 
> _"Never use a long word where a short one will do. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out."_


He is wrong. It is best to choose neither the long nor the short word. It is best to choose the word that conveys your thought best.

You may quote me.

Peace


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## eljr

Forster said:


> Well, a tautology for a start.
> 
> More words might be neither more descriptive, nor more communicative. It rather depends on the purpose of the communication.


True, may be. See my last post, just above.

Still, there is nothing worse than someone incapable of penning what they want to communicate.


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## Pat Fairlea

Art Rock said:


> "Never use long words where short ones will do. Can you delete a word? Do it!"
> 
> Eight words less. :tiphat:


No. It's eight words fewer. :devil:


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## Chilham

Pat Fairlea said:


> No. It's eight words fewer. :devil:


:clap: ......................


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## Art Rock

Pat Fairlea said:


> No. It's eight words fewer. :devil:


I've been Stannised...... (link for those who don't get it)

:clap:


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## Becca

Pat Fairlea said:


> No. It's eight words fewer. :devil:


To be very pedantic, it should be "It's eight fewer words"


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## Bwv 1080

Two that make me cringe every time I hear them:

Pet parents

Granddogs


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## MarkW

Speaking of "fewer" -- I know language change is inevitable, and a change may be said to have occurred as soon as 51% of the people employ the new usage (on this side of the ocean, the replacement of lie by lay (formerly lie's past participle) is basically an accomplished fact, but the ongoing increasing use of less for fewer I predict to be the next lost battle.


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## progmatist

More often than not, I'm bothered by mispronunciation of words. Not the words themselves. For example, ask and asked pronounced as axe and axed. I'm most bothered by malware pronounced as "mall-ware." One doesn't buy malware from the shopping mall...unless it's a virtual mall on the Tor Network, aka Dark Web.


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## SixFootScowl

progmatist said:


> More often than not, I'm bothered by mispronunciation of words. Not the words themselves. For example, ask and asked pronounced as axe and axed. I'm most bothered by malware pronounced as "mall-ware." One doesn't buy malware from the shopping mall...unless it's a virtual mall on the Tor Network, aka Dark Web.


Why do so many elected officials pronounce election "allection."


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## SixFootScowl

MarkW said:


> Speaking of "fewer" -- I know language change is inevitable, and a change may be said to have occurred as soon as 51% of the people employ the new usage (on this side of the ocean, the replacement of lie by lay (formerly lie's past participle) is basically an accomplished fact, but the ongoing increasing use of less for fewer I predict to be the next lost battle.


Farther: To be used when speaking of distance. It is farther down the road.

Further: To be used when not speaking of distance: I plan to pursue this topic further tonight.


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## pianozach

Forster said:


> Yes. Someone, somewhere, misconstrued the idea that it's rude to say 'you' or 'me' so we're lumbered with a faux-officialese of 'yourself' and 'myself'. Absurd.
> 
> "Pivot". Political journalists love to talk about politicians 'pivoting towards' (Changing direction? Changing their mind?) Ugh.
> "Albeit".
> 
> I've never heard of "copacetic" til you used it Mark. But that's copacetic by me !


Decades ago when I was at a State University I had a professor of African-American Studies that claimed that he had invented the word "copacetic".

At the moment I can't think of any words that I dislike, but there's one my wife dislikes: "*Wetness*".


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## Forster

pianozach said:


> At the moment I can't think of any words that I dislike, but there's one my wife dislikes: "*Wetness*".


Ha! My wife objects to "*moist*" (and "nibbles" and "browse".) Actually, she objects to pretty much any word I say, if I say it in a creepy enough voice.


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## mikeh375

^^^naughty Forster...or is it just me...


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## Dan Ante

I do not like efin swear words or negative words such as *no*, *Grushen *is also a no like word followed by *moist*, I do not know why* moist *upsets me but *moist *is a strong word and* moist *can mean many things as well as* moist*. Oh why bother if you like* moist *good effin luck…


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## MarkW

I dislike the word "hate"" when used in a context that doesn't match the power of the word. You can hate war or greed - but people who stand in express checkout lines with too an items?


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## Art Rock

... let alone music ....


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## Ariasexta

What about the memes, most of them are very disgusting, like a black sportsman being used as the poster of question mark, and the guy who say: " W, WTF?" I so tired of them, so disgusting, nauseating. Chinese people use them a lot but I am not sure about global situation.


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## SixFootScowl

pianozach said:


> At the moment I can't think of any words that I dislike, but there's one my wife dislikes: "*Wetness*".


I lived 30 years and had never heard the word "wetten" as in making a paper towel moist, until I met my mother-in-law. She also had an odd way of viewing shopping carts, calling the part where the toddler sits the front, so that I would envision her pushing a cart backwards throughout the store.


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## SixFootScowl

I don't like the word meme, perhaps because I have no idea where it came from and it sounds weird. We used to call these things cartoons.


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## Art Rock

SixFootScowl said:


> I don't like the word meme, perhaps because I have no idea where it came from and it sounds weird. We used to call these things cartoons.


Most memes are not cartoons, actually.


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## Forster

SixFootScowl said:


> I don't like the word meme, perhaps because I have no idea where it came from and it sounds weird. We used to call these things cartoons.


But you've looked up where meme comes from?


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## Bwv 1080

SixFootScowl said:


> I don't like the word meme, perhaps because I have no idea where it came from and it sounds weird. We used to call these things cartoons.


It came from Richard Dawkins, so likely that wont change your opinion


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## MarkW

This may be a U.S. thing, but people who pronounce nuclear, nucular, and people who pronounce jewelry, jewlery.


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## SixFootScowl

Or who pronounce restaurant, rest-ront.


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## SixFootScowl

Bwv 1080 said:


> It came from Richard Dawkins, so likely that wont change your opinion


I'll have to live with it. It's a part of our communication now.


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## pianozach

SixFootScowl said:


> I don't like the word meme, perhaps because I have no idea where it came from and it sounds weird. We used to call these things cartoons.





Bwv 1080 said:


> It came from Richard Dawkins, so likely that wont change your opinion


Yep. 1976. *The Selfish Gene* by Dawkins. He invented a word and it lived.

But you can trace its etymology back to the Greek _*"mimēma"*_ ('that which is imitated'), which Dawkins blended with the English word _*"gene"*_.


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## Forster

MarkW said:


> This may be a U.S. thing, but people who pronounce nuclear, nucular, and people who pronounce jewelry, jewlery.


And in the UK lately, anti-semetic instead of anti-semitic.


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## Forster

pianozach said:


> Yep. 1976. *The Selfish Gene* by Dawkins. He invented a word and it lived.
> 
> But you can trace its etymology back to the Greek _*"mimēma"*_ ('that which is imitated'), which Dawkins blended with the English word _*"gene"*_.


You can trace the idea back further than Dawkins too (a/c to Wiki).


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## mikeh375

MarkW said:


> This may be a U.S. thing, but people who pronounce nuclear, nucular, and people who pronounce jewelry, jewlery.


My old man used to say skelingtons instead of skeletons and I've heard lots of people say filum instead of film.


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## Jay

Chilham said:


> The habit of adding, "...ize", to almost any word in an attempt to turn it into a verb.


"problematize".......


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## Jay

When did "loan" become a verb; I didn't receive that memo.

"In-ter-esting" rather than "intrest-ing."


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## starthrower

pianozach said:


> Yep. 1976. *The Selfish Gene* by Dawkins. He invented a word and it lived.
> 
> But you can trace its etymology back to the Greek _*"mimēma"*_ ('that which is imitated'), which Dawkins blended with the English word _*"gene"*_.


Brilliant! I love Dawkins and I love reading his books and listening to his calm and reasoned arguments and teaching even when he's being attacked and demonized by religious zealots.


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## pianozach

MarkW said:


> This may be a U.S. thing, but people who pronounce nuclear, nucular, and people who pronounce jewelry, jewlery.


Yep. These two drive me crazy. "*New-kyu-ler*" and "*jew-ler-ee*". Gah!

I'm not too fond of "*grŌshries*" (instead of "groceries") either.


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## starthrower

I think nucular was a Dubya Bush-ism. Or a least he took it nationwide.


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## pianozach

starthrower said:


> I think nucular was a Dubya Bush-ism. Or a least he took it nationwide.


That pronunciation seems to be a dialectical thing, although education and intelligence usually tends to override regional mispronunciations. Not so with Dubya.

Here's another, made notable by *Paul McCartney* when he sang a cover of *"Till There Was You"* on one of the very early Beatles albums. Instead of _"There were birds on the hill, but I never saw them winging"_, he went Liverpudlian and sang, instead, _". . . But I never *sawr* them winging"_. It doesn't really bother me, though. It's just so . . . . quaint.


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## SixFootScowl

starthrower said:


> Brilliant! I love Dawkins and I love reading his books and listening to his calm and reasoned arguments and teaching even when he's being attacked and demonized by religious zealots.


There are zealots on both sides of the issue.


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## SixFootScowl

Media often report someone died of an apparent heart attack when they really mean that the person died, apparently of a heart attack. 

Never liked the word "proven" as in a proven process. It seems to me that it would better be called a proved process.


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## progmatist

starthrower said:


> I think nucular was a Dubya Bush-ism. Or a least he took it nationwide.


You should avoid such a flamabable topic.


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## Dan Ante

Jay said:


> "problematize".......


NO NO NO problematise


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## starthrower

SixFootScowl said:


> There are zealots on both sides of the issue.


If your arguments are backed up by scientific evidence it doesn't matter how detractors try to characterize it because it's factual.


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## SixFootScowl

starthrower said:


> If your arguments are backed up by scientific evidence it doesn't matter how detractors try to characterize it because it's factual.


Evidence is one thing. Interpretation of that evidence is another.


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## SanAntone

starthrower said:


> If your arguments are backed up by scientific evidence it doesn't matter how detractors try to characterize it because it's factual.


Are you saying that Atheism can be backed up by scientific evidence?


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## starthrower

SanAntone said:


> Are you saying that Atheism can be backed up by scientific evidence?


No! Atheism is a position adopted by people who don't accept the idea of a deity based on faith. I was referring to facts like the fossil record and carbon dating which refute the beliefs of some religious people who push the young earth position and creationism based on bible stories. But we should really not take this any further and stick to the thread topic.


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## progmatist

starthrower said:


> No! Atheism is a position adopted by people who don't accept the idea of a deity based on faith. I was referring to facts like the fossil record and carbon dating which refute the beliefs of some religious people who push the young earth position and creationism based on bible stories. But we should really not take this any further and stick to the thread topic.


More relevant to this thread would be the "word" atheism. We don't have a word for those who don't believe in Big Foot, or the Loch Ness Monster.


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## Art Rock

starthrower said:


> But we should really not take this any further and stick to the thread topic.


Indeed. Let's stop this discussion about atheism and religion right here.


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## Jay

The response "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" grates.


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## SanAntone

I think the words "should" and "ought" should be abolished.


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## fbjim

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> I don't mind the gender neutral substitutes. They're very useful to have and should have been standardized long ago, political agendas aside
> 
> However, if someone wants to use "he" to describe an unidentified composer and "she" for a teacher, I won't make a big deal out of it.


One writer I know defaults to "she" regardless of context. No politically active feminist or anything, he just thought it was a neat way to provide some balance.


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## starthrower

progmatist said:


> More relevant to this thread would be the "word" atheism. We don't have a word for those who don't believe in Big Foot, or the Loch Ness Monster.


Sure we do. It's called skepticism. One of my favorite words.


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## eljr

progmatist said:


> More relevant to this thread would be the "word" atheism. We don't have *a word for those who don't believe in Big Foot*, or the Loch Ness Monster.


 reasoned, sensible or sober


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## SixFootScowl

SanAntone said:


> I think the words "should" and "ought" should be abolished.


I don't like when "should" is used instead of if":

"Should you find the suit does not fit well, please bring it in for an adjustment."


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## Dan Ante

Dan Ante said:


> I do not like efin swear words or negative words such as *no*, *Grushen *is also a no like word followed by *moist*, I do not know why* moist *upsets me but *moist *is a strong word and* moist *can mean many things as well as* moist*. Oh why bother if you like* moist *good luck


I had to go to my GP this morning to have the dressing on my arm changed, the nurse was very careful and eventually the wound was visible she then said "it's very moist" I just could not restrain myself and burst out laughing, she just looked at me and smiled.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

I dislike how English abolished the "y'all" form. Most other languages have it so it's pretty stupid for us not to.

I also strongly dislike how "one" has been replaced by "you" in common speech, cause if "one" says "one", they run the risk of sounding like an egghead. It also leads to unecesssary confusion:

"Well if you, I mean, not _you_ personally, but...y'know, _you_..."

It's terribly inefficient.


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## hammeredklavier

Becca said:


> 'Greatest' for many reasons, most of which are frequently seen on this site.


Also, "favorite". This and "greatest" are probably two words responsible for 90% of the most banal threads on this forum imv. (I could maybe post in the community section my 10 favorite fruits, 10 favorite colors, and whatnot, pretending like anyone should care.) Also, the "double standards" some people exhibit regarding this are sometimes ridiculous. (their favorite things are always "underrated", somehow never "overrated" under any circumstances).


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## Ariasexta

Not many partilcuar words I dislike but if put on a brain-grapher, 90%ly they can summed as： economy, marx, engels, lenin, stalin, meme(I hate the experience with its content in chinese translation:梗图，表情包), rap, pragmatical, empiricism, global warming, tesla(oops, am not a fan of the man from serfia, not just the brand，he is creepiest guy I ever know). Sometimes I will not capitalize where it should when the word does not feel good.


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## starthrower

Dan Ante, I hope no one plays the Steeleye Span song, Misty, Moisty Morning in your vicinity. You might blow a gasket and have to be rushed to emergency!


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## premont

SanAntone said:


> I think the words "should" and "ought" should be abolished.


They surely ought to..


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## SixFootScowl

Ariasexta said:


> Not many partilcuar words I dislike but if put on a brain-grapher, 90%ly they can summed as： economy, marx, engels, lenin, stalin, meme(I hate the experience with its content in chinese translation:梗图，表情包), rap, pragmatical, empiricism, global warming, tesla(oops, am not a fan of the man from serfia, not just the brand，he is creepiest guy I ever know). Sometimes I will not capitalize where it should when the word does not feel good.


I'll "progressive" to that list.

On your last point I just read a book where the author did not capitalize satan, saying he is not worthy of the recognition of a capitol letter to his name.


----------



## progmatist

SixFootScowl said:


> I'll "progressive" to that list.


When applied to music, "progressive" is a badge of honor. When applied to politics is when it opens a can of worms. There are some who can't distinguish between the two. A few years ago, the site progarchives was taken offline by hackers. No doubt hacktivists who thought it was a political, rather than a music site. I've read a few Craig's List postings by someone looking to form a "progressive rock" band. But what they really mean is a political activist band.



SanAntone said:


> I think the words "should" and "ought" should be abolished.


I'm guessing you're not a fan of Alanis Morisette.


----------



## Jay

progmatist said:


> When applied to music, "progressive" is a badge of honor. When applied to politics is when it opens a can of worms.... I've read a few Craig's List postings by someone looking to form a "progressive rock" band. But what they really mean is a political activist band.


To your point, when the word "progressive" was first employed by critics with regard to rock _music_ of the late 60s, the recording companies co-opted it as a marketing term, explicitly linking it to the (ostensibly) progressive _politics_ of the counterculture.


----------



## starthrower

I don't mind the word, progressive. But I hate "prog" which doesn't mean anything. It just rhymes with frog.


----------



## Dan Ante

starthrower said:


> Dan Ante, I hope no one plays the Steeleye Span song, Misty, Moisty Morning in your vicinity. You might blow a gasket and have to be rushed to emergency!


I used to know a girl called Misty (what cruel parents to give a child that name)


----------



## progmatist

starthrower said:


> I don't mind the word, progressive. But I hate "prog" which doesn't mean anything. It just rhymes with frog.


Many have misheard me saying "frog" when I was actually saying "prog."


----------



## parlando

Like this thread. It's so "awesome". Very likely to be back.


----------



## parlando

progmatist said:


> More often than not, I'm bothered by mispronunciation of words. Not the words themselves. For example, ask and asked pronounced as axe and axed. I'm most bothered by malware pronounced as "mall-ware." One doesn't buy malware from the shopping mall...unless it's a virtual mall on the Tor Network, aka Dark Web.


Pronouncing "ask" as "axe" has a quite respectable antiquity, going back to roughly Chaucer's time. It's actually a bit easier to say, just as "there's" is easier to say than "there are" (which requires the dreaded glottal stop). "Mowl-ware", much better than "mawlware"! An otherwise excellent announcer on NYC's FM station WQXR insists on saying "prellood" for "preylood". I've done classical radio and would blush. Then there's "guys" for folks or people or customers; my wife hates being thus misgendered; I know that boat has sailed and won't be back.


----------



## Forster

parlando said:


> "prellood" for "preylood".


Eh? Not "prell-yood"?


----------



## Chilham

Whilst we're on pronunciation, saying, "Tishue", and, "Ishue"' rather than, "Tissue"' and, "Issue"', and, "Are" instead of, "Our". It irritates me in way entirely disproportionate to the 'error'.

The things we choose to care about!


----------



## Forster

Chilham said:


> Whilst we're on pronunciation, saying, "Tishue", and, "Ishue"' rather than, "Tissue"' and, "Issue"', and, "Are" instead of, "Our". It irritates me in way entirely disproportionate to the 'error'.
> 
> The things we choose to care about!


A quick look at intewebz dictionaries prefers ishoo, or ishyoo to iss-yoo...


----------



## Chilham

Forster said:


> A quick look at intewebz dictionaries prefers ishoo, or ishyoo to iss-yoo...


And of course, da interwebz is always right! :lol: I think there's one that gives both pronunciations.

I know I'm pushing this rock uphill, but it still grates.


----------



## elgar's ghost

In my neck of the woods a fair number of folk tend to say 'babby' instead of baby. I know this is moaning about distorting a word rather than the word itself but for me it has always been a fingernails-down-the-blackboard moment.


----------



## mikeh375

I dislike these words sometimes and not necessarily in this order...

Lawn, the, darling, mowing, needs.


----------



## starthrower

mikeh375 said:


> I dislike these words sometimes and not necessarily in this order...
> 
> Lawn, the, darling, mowing, needs.


One of the chores I actually enjoyed doing every week. But my wife took over so I've been relegated to blowing the grass clippings off the driveway.


----------



## Malx

starthrower said:


> One of the chores I actually enjoyed doing every week. But my wife took over so I've been relegated to blowing the grass clippings off the driveway.


Wow - hope you have a machine to do that or a very short driveway.


----------



## Ariasexta

SixFootScowl said:


> I'll "progressive" to that list.
> 
> On your last point I just read a book where the author did not capitalize satan, saying he is not worthy of the recognition of a capitol letter to his name.


"Progressive" is quite neutral to me, there are different kinds of sensitivities to people in different situations, some chinese would say "Japan", to me we do not use much "progressive" as "economy" which has always been flying around as the most outstanding characteristic of chinese commипiзм.

Capitalization is a great system in western culture, good for expressing some very subtle senses.


----------



## Ariasexta

I have great respect for the English language, I do not want to add any more words, so, that it is. End of story for me. 

But chinese? the characters allowed to show up in chinese is limited here, there are many chinese words I seriously dislike, about 100, mostly memes, popular coinages in cyberspace, but I do not want to derail to chinese culture topics here. 

Some of my favorite English words: Christian-I like the pronounciation, mind-simple and good sounding, imagination-nice sounding, music-of course.


----------



## Dan Ante

To - too - two, all pronounced the same is quite annoying.


----------



## elgar's ghost

And while I've got my grumpy hat on - saying and writing "could of" instead of "could have".


----------



## Forster

elgars ghost said:


> And while I've got my grumpy hat on - saying and writing "could of" instead of "could have".


I would of said the same, but you've beaten me to it.


----------



## starthrower

Malx said:


> Wow - hope you have a machine to do that or a very short driveway.


You should see me blow out candles on a cake! Everybody ends up with frosting on their mug!


----------



## progmatist

Dan Ante said:


> To - too - two, all pronounced the same is quite annoying.


How about there, their, they're? I find it annoying when somebody writes the wrong one.


----------



## pianozach

elgars ghost said:


> And while I've got my grumpy hat on - saying and writing "could of" instead of "could have".





Forster said:


> I would of said the same, but you've beaten me to it.


Yes.

But it's usually pronounced *"could've"*.


----------



## elgar's ghost

pianozach said:


> Yes.
> 
> But it's usually pronounced *"could've"*.


Stop spoiling my fun.


----------



## Forster

pianozach said:


> Yes.
> 
> But it's usually pronounced *"could've"*.


But I've often seen it written 'could/would of'


----------



## pianozach

Forster said:


> But I've often seen it written 'could/would of'


Yeah, that would be incorrect.


----------



## Jay

"There is" (or "there's") when is should be "there are" (or "there're")


----------



## Forster

Using "as such" when all that is meant is "therefore".

Oxford languages: "as such" means

in the exact sense of the word. eg _"it is possible to stay overnight here although there is no guest house as such"_


----------



## MarkW

This ship has long sailed, but media used to be the plural of medium.


----------



## fbjim

MarkW said:


> This ship has long sailed, but media used to be the plural of medium.


That whole family is an endangered species. Media/Medium, Data/Datum, Criteria/Criterion.


----------



## Pat Fairlea

fbjim said:


> That whole family is an endangered species. Media/Medium, Data/Datum, Criteria/Criterion.


Yes! YES!! And phenomena/phenomenon. And 'none' is singular ('not one'). And many more, so very many more...... :scold:


----------



## fbjim

I still use 'criterion' but I think the ship has sailed on the "Data is a plural" boat, and I only see "The data are" in contexts like academic journals.

It'll be in the graveyard right next to "'Momentarily' means 'briefly' and not 'soon'" plot.


----------



## SanAntone

fbjim said:


> That whole family is an endangered species. Media/Medium, Data/Datum, Criteria/Criterion.


I still use all of those singular/plural forms.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

Apparently I pronounced "while" as "wall" without exception until someone told me once that this verbal habit of mine was driving them crazy. Since then, I've taken extra care to annunciate it correctly!


----------



## fbjim

Jay said:


> The response "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" grates.


I think this is a very generational thing (30y/o here). Nobody my age I've talked to about this considers this response remotely disrespectful but the opinion changes as you go up the age pole. I think it's here to stay.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Jay said:


> The response "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" grates.


"No problem" is similar to what my Mexican friends say, "de nada," meaning "you're welcome" but transliterated is "of nothing."


----------



## fbjim

"De rein" is the exact equivilent in French. The more "formal" form is something like "there is nothing to thank me for".


----------



## Forster

fbjim said:


> "De rein" is the exact equivilent in French. The more "formal" form is something like "there is nothing to thank me for".


De rien ?


----------



## parlando

Some disclosure. I've yet to fill out my personal data, but a big part of my life these days outside of listening to classical music and wishing I was at my childhood piano or bowing my violin is writing carefully. These last two pages have my immense approval. Immense. "No problem" indeed! _Zzzzhhh_ !! -. Since foreign or loan word plurals and singulars are very irregular, I try to forgive their abuse, and since "there are" requires a glottal stop whereas "there's" does not, I often use the incorrect form to be chummy. One can always say "that raviolo" to wake up fellow diners; there are tricky neighbors to that: know your audience. I hate "luv", but, well, I luv this thread.


----------



## mikeh375

More pronunciation woes.....there is no 'x' in lackadaisical.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Oh how it bugs me when people pronounce the "t" in "often."


----------



## parlando

I used to be like that regarding “often,” now I’m just glad they know the word. Somewhere on the margins of print culture in the past someone big and strong saw the word in print, thought that it was pronounced that way and adopted the visual cue and impressed others by dint of repetition and schoolroom force perhaps. Oft I forgive.


----------



## pianozach

SixFootScowl said:


> Oh how it bugs me when people pronounce the "t" in "often."





parlando said:


> I used to be like that regarding "often," now I'm just glad they know the word. Somewhere on the margins of print culture in the past someone big and strong saw the word in print, thought that it was pronounced that way and adopted the visual cue and impressed others by dint of repetition and schoolroom force perhaps. Oft I forgive.


[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Tell me, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
[CHORUS OF PIRATES]
Oh, dash it all!

[PIRATE KING]
Here we are again!

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?

[PIRATE KING]
Often!

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Yes, orphan. Have you ever known what it is to be one?

[PIRATE KING]
I say, often.

[MAJOR-GENERAL, PIRATE KING, CHORUS OF PIRATES]
Often, often, often.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
I don't think we quite understand one another. I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan, and you say "orphan". As I understand you, you are merely repeating the word "orphan" to show that you understand me.

[PIRATE KING]
I didn't repeat the word often.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Pardon me, you did indeed.

[PIRATE KING]
I only repeated it once.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
True, but you repeated it.

[PIRATE KING]
But not often.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Stop! I think I see where we are getting confused. When you said "orphan", did you mean "orphan" - a person who has lost his parents, or "often", frequently?

[PIRATE KING]
Ah! I beg pardon - I see what you mean - frequently.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Ah! you said "often", frequently.

[PIRATE KING]
No, only once.

[MAJOR-GENERAL]
Exactly - you said "often", frequently, only once.


----------



## CnC Bartok

I hate the word "vunerable". Please could people refrain from using it, and use "vulnerable" instead?

I also despise the word "proactive", and use of the word "impact" as a verb. It can be a verb, but only for teeth.


----------



## parlando

pianozach: That’s hysterical. I never knew about it before.


----------



## Dan Ante

There is no f in wine...


----------



## Open Book

Funny how this thread is more about objectionable or inappropriate or overdone uses of words or even expressions, in contemporary usage, rather than words themselves.

I think the English language has too many words and there are completely respectable words that I hate. I don't have a great memory for words and if they don't sound like their meaning to me or if they seem superfluous I don't pick them up and keep having to look them up over and over again. 

The word "benighted" never stuck with me. Google definition is:

"In a state of pitiful or contemptible intellectual or moral ignorance, typically owing to a lack of opportunity."

It sounds too high-falutin to be associated with ignorance, there are better words that sound like "ignorance". "Benighted" sounds like it should mean "granted knighthood". My trick to remembering it is to think night = "in the dark".

One of my favorite authors Anita Brookner uses this word a lot and she seldom writes about people who would be described as benighted.


----------



## SixFootScowl

My daughter hates when I use the phrase "pray tell" when asking her a question. 

When someone is told something absurd and which they either do not believe or do not accept, they will respond with "My a--." As a kid we would say, "My foot." Recently I heard someone (a southerner) say "my hind leg." Now that last one is really weird.


----------



## SixFootScowl

pianozach said:


> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Tell me, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
> [CHORUS OF PIRATES]
> Oh, dash it all!
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> Here we are again!
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> Often!
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Yes, orphan. Have you ever known what it is to be one?
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> I say, often.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL, PIRATE KING, CHORUS OF PIRATES]
> Often, often, often.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> I don't think we quite understand one another. I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan, and you say "orphan". As I understand you, you are merely repeating the word "orphan" to show that you understand me.
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> I didn't repeat the word often.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Pardon me, you did indeed.
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> I only repeated it once.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> True, but you repeated it.
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> But not often.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Stop! I think I see where we are getting confused. When you said "orphan", did you mean "orphan" - a person who has lost his parents, or "often", frequently?
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> Ah! I beg pardon - I see what you mean - frequently.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Ah! you said "often", frequently.
> 
> [PIRATE KING]
> No, only once.
> 
> [MAJOR-GENERAL]
> Exactly - you said "often", frequently, only once.


I am getting from this that often, pronounced without sounding the "t" maybe sounds like orphan. Or is it that the "t" is an orphan since it is not sounded out?


----------



## Pat Fairlea

SixFootScowl said:


> Oh how it bugs me when people pronounce the "t" in "often."


Really? Yet there it is, a whole 't', launching the 2nd syllable. What's the problem?

Put it another way, how do you prefer to hear 'after' pronounced?


----------



## Open Book

Pat Fairlea said:


> Really? Yet there it is, a whole 't', launching the 2nd syllable. What's the problem?
> 
> Put it another way, how do you prefer to hear 'after' pronounced?


Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.


----------



## Roger Knox

Open Book said:


> Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.


This Canadian says something in between: of-den with the "d" not prominent and a slight raise in pitch on the 2nd syllable.

Never thought about this before.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Open Book said:


> Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.


British people don't (shouldn't) pronounce the 't' in often. Am I missing something, here?


----------



## Guest

Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.


----------



## Dan Ante

I have always pronounced the t in often.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Baron Scarpia said:


> Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.


Those pesky dictionaries. Always spoiling things for us.


----------



## Forster

Baron Scarpia said:


> Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.


Oxford (UK Dictionary) has silent 't' followed by voiced 't'. Oxford (US Dictionary) has voiced 't'.

I've now thought about this so much that I can't recall how how I say it. I expect both ways, depending on the context I put it in.

As for how it 'should' be said, we all know that whether we like it or not, language is a living thing, evolving with or against our preferences all the time.

Having said that, I am appalled at having discovered that the 'flapped t' is sanctioned as a unique sound in the US dictionary found in 'butter' - pronounced 'budder'!



> US pronunciations are transcribed in two ways, in traditional respelling (as seen in the _New Oxford American Dictionary_) and using symbols of the IPA.
> 
> In both systems, the letters b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, and z have their usual English values.* In IPA, d is also used to represent a 'flapped t' as in butter*.


https://www.lexico.com/grammar/key-to-pronunciation



SixFootScowl said:


> I am getting from this that often, pronounced without sounding the "t" maybe sounds like orphan. Or is it that the "t" is an orphan since it is not sounded out?


It's also about the 'posh' way of saying the 'o' as 'or' as in "Red Sox lorst again this week."



Open Book said:


> Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.


I'm reminded of Robert Downey Jnr's awful Brit accent in the Sherlock Holmes movies. Give me Dick Van ****'s Cheeky Cockney any day.

I think one of the differences I've heard between US and UK pronounciation is that our short and modified vowels are shorter than yours. Take 'ghastly', which we would say 'ghahstly' and a US might say 'ghairstly'. American actors who can master that can pass themselves off as English quite well.


----------



## progmatist

HenryPenfold said:


> British people don't (shouldn't) pronounce the 't' in often. Am I missing something, here?


Many Brits don't pronounce the 't' in any word. For example, they'll pronounce little as "li'el."


----------



## SixFootScowl

Forster said:


> It's also about the 'posh' way of saying the 'o' as 'or' as in "Red Sox lorst again this week."


I am a big fan of Ed Norton's mispronunciations in the Honeymooners TV show. Therefore, sometimes I say earl instead of oil.

The Three Stooges did it too. I remember Larry saying about having a belly ache, "Must be something I et."

Hey, but speaking of US pronunciations, you have to hear the huge variations across the country, especially New York, vs the south, vs Upper Michigan and Minnesota (which leans Canadian), even Wisconsin. Sometimes they just have different terms. For example I have heard that in Wisconsin a traffic light is a stop and go and a drinking fountain is a bubbler. We here in southern Michigan speak normal. 

Of course those in the UK must wonder why the US calls dampeners shock absorbers when in reality the shock is absorbed by the springs. Or course our cars have a hood, as bonnets are a historic kind of hat that women wore in the olden days.


----------



## Roger Knox

SixFootScowl said:


> Hey, but speaking of US pronunciations, you have to hear the huge variations across the country, especially New York, vs the south, vs Upper Michigan and Minnesota (which leans Canadian), even Wisconsin. Sometimes they just have different terms. For example I have heard that in Wisconsin a traffic light is a stop and go and a drinking fountain is a bubbler. We here in southern Michigan speak normal.


As a Canadian in the USA some differences I noticed were:

In Bloomington, Indiana -- a paper bag was a "sack," and quarter to eight was "quarter of eight."

About Rochester, New York -- there was a joke that a tourist pulled up to a gas station and asked for a map, but the attendant came back with a mop.

Interesting, eh?


----------



## SixFootScowl

And in Latin America, look out. Words that are innocuous in one nation could get you in a fight or worse in another nation.


----------



## SixFootScowl

I once heard a joke about someone from the deep south came to live in the north. He was excited to get a power mower at his new place, something he never had before and was rare where he came from. He told some folks at work how he got a power mower, but his thick southern accent made it come out sounding just like paramour. The ensuing confusion would have been pretty funny. Unfortunately I cannot find a copy of that joke.


----------



## FrankE

Invite as a noun
e.g. "I'll send you an invite" instead of the correct "I'll send you an invitation".

I think they get it from Facebook.

Install as a noun.
e.g. I'll do a fresh install of the operating system.


----------



## SanAntone

Roger Knox said:


> As a Canadian in the USA some differences I noticed were:
> 
> In Bloomington, Indiana -- a paper bag was a "sack," and quarter to eight was "quarter of eight."
> 
> About Rochester, New York -- there was a joke that a tourist pulled up to a gas station and asked for a map, but the attendant came back with a mop.
> 
> Interesting, eh?


One common difference is in how to describe carbonated drinks. In the South we say "a Coke" no matter what it is, in the North, "Soda", and elsewhere it can be called "Pop". I say "paper sack" as well. And "filling station" which young people have no idea what I'm talking about.

Something I was chided about when I lived in NYC was saying "I'm fixin'" to do something. And making no difference between "picture" and "pitcher", or "pen" and "pin". My wife still acts like she doesn't know what I'm saying sometimes.


----------



## pianozach

SixFootScowl said:


> I am getting from this that often, pronounced without sounding the "t" maybe sounds like orphan. Or is it that the "t" is an orphan since it is not sounded out?


Read it while thinking British accent. Orphan is pronounced Ohfann, while Often is pronounced Ohfann as well.


----------



## pianozach

Forster said:


> Oxford (UK Dictionary) has silent 't' followed by voiced 't'. Oxford (US Dictionary) has voiced 't'.
> 
> I've now thought about this so much that I can't recall how how I say it. I expect both ways, depending on the context I put it in.
> 
> *As for how it 'should' be said,* we all know that whether we like it or not, language is a living thing, evolving with or against our preferences all the time.
> 
> Having said that, I am appalled at having discovered that the 'flapped t' is sanctioned as a unique sound in the US dictionary found in 'butter' - pronounced 'budder'!
> 
> https://www.lexico.com/grammar/key-to-pronunciation
> 
> It's also about the 'posh' way of saying the 'o' as 'or' as in "Red Sox lorst again this week."
> 
> I'm reminded of Robert Downey Jnr's awful Brit accent in the Sherlock Holmes movies. Give me Dick Van ****'s Cheeky Cockney any day.
> 
> I think one of the differences I've heard between US and UK pronounciation is that our short and modified vowels are shorter than yours. Take 'ghastly', which we would say 'ghahstly' and a US might say 'ghairstly'. American actors who can master that can pass themselves off as English quite well.


"Should". It's a rather strange thing that we have words with "silent letters". Should we pronounce "should" with the "L" in it.

Or Pterydactyl with the "P".

Here's some others:

RECEIPT
KNEAD
HONEST
GNAW
SUBTLE
SOLEMN
FAUX
RENDEZVOUS

So . . . with the word *OFTEN*, the "T" can be silent.


----------



## parlando

progmatist said:


> Many Brits don't pronounce the 't' in any word. For example, they'll pronounce little as "li'el."


 That glottal stop again. ! I once know a deep Brooklynite who put a glottal stop in "bottle" and everywhere else possible. We teased him but in a friendly way. He never did proper "r"s either. Art was aht, etc.


----------



## Forster

pianozach said:


> Read it while thinking British accent. Orphan is pronounced Ohfann, while Often is pronounced Ohfann as well.


No, it's pronounced orfn.


----------



## MarkW

There are times I love silent letters (like the T in Tchaikovsky). Doesn't happen often, but when I'm spelling out something on the phone, I love to say "D, as in Djakarta."


----------



## progmatist

I did not know until a few years ago the plural form of "text" is "Texas."



parlando said:


> He never did proper "r"s either. Art was aht, etc.


It's even worse in Boston. The running tease for Bostonians is "Pahk the Cah in the Yahd."


----------



## pianozach

progmatist said:


> I did not know until a few years ago the plural form of "text" is "Texas."
> 
> It's even worse in Boston. The running tease for Bostonians is "Pahk the Cah in the Yahd."


"Hey, Oil, put some earl in tha cah."


----------



## EdwardBast

pianozach said:


> "Hey, Oil, put some earl in tha cah."


Of an old, inefficient car engine in Joisey: It's an earl boina.

I don't like sphygmomanometer - too many ems.


----------



## CnC Bartok

MarkW said:


> There are times I love silent letters (like the T in Tchaikovsky). Doesn't happen often, but when I'm spelling out something on the phone, I love to say "D, as in Djakarta."


I particularly like the silent "C" at the beginning of "rap music"....:angel:


----------



## elgar's ghost

pianozach said:


> "Should". It's a rather strange thing that we have words with "silent letters"


I think Irish Gaelic wins first prize for that, not just for silent letters but also for letters either individually or in combination that seem nonsensical to a non-speaker. For example, my mother's maiden name was Furphy. Easy in English, yes? And now here is the original Irish spelling:

*O'Foirbhilhe*


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## Pat Fairlea

Forster said:


> No, it's pronounced orfn.


No, there are 2 ways to pronounce 'often'.
OFF-t'n
and wrongly.


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## HenryPenfold

Pat Fairlea said:


> No, there are 2 ways to pronounce 'often'.
> OFF-t'n
> and wrongly.


Offen

................


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## SixFootScowl

HenryPenfold said:


> Offen


I like it! Think I shall start spelling it that way!


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## geralmar

Ranch dressing.

For a salad dressing with a cowboy name, I would expect it to taste more like a barbeque sauce, not like cucumbers.


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## geralmar

SixFootScowl said:


> I once heard a joke about someone from the deep south came to live in the north. He was excited to get a power mower at his new place, something he never had before and was rare where he came from. He told some folks at work how he got a power mower, but his thick southern accent made it come out sounding just like paramour. The ensuing confusion would have been pretty funny. Unfortunately I cannot find a copy of that joke.


True story. Years ago I invited a friend to my house for dinner. Wanting to appear sophisticated, instead of telling him to bring his girlfriend I invited him to bring his "paramour"*. He looked at me quizzically and asked, " Why should I bring a power mower?"

*I later regretted not consulting the dictionary before using the word.


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## progmatist

elgars ghost said:


> I think Irish Gaelic wins first prize for that, not just for silent letters but also for letters either individually or in combination that seem nonsensical to a non-speaker. For example, my mother's maiden name was Furphy. Easy in English, yes? And now here is the original Irish spelling:
> 
> *O'Foirbhilhe*


Same with French, but in an opposite manner. Whereas Gaelic has many silent vowels, French has many silent consonants. Particularly at the end of words. In "rendezvous" for example, both the z in the middle, and the s at the end are silent.


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## fbjim

progmatist said:


> Same with French, but in an opposite manner. Whereas Gaelic has many silent vowels, French has many silent consonants. Particularly at the end of words. In "rendezvous" for example, both the z in the middle, and the s at the end are silent.


I remember someone insisting that "forte" as in "not my forte" should be pronounced "fort," as it's a mangling of the French pronunciation to pronounce it like the musical term "forte". Unfortunately the actual French pronunciation is more like "for".


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## SixFootScowl

Is the "S" or the "C" silent in the word "scent"?

The word "queue" is just Q followed by four silent letters.


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## parlando

Roger Knox said:


> About Rochester, New York -- there was a joke that a tourist pulled up to a gas station and asked for a map, but the attendant came back with a mop.
> 
> Interesting, eh?


I say he or she ought to have asked for a "road mop." That would have cued the filling station (not dentist) attendant to go big time. Or ask for clarification: "Asphalt, concrete, or dirt, sir?"


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## progmatist

fbjim said:


> I remember someone insisting that "forte" as in "not my forte" should be pronounced "fort," as it's a mangling of the French pronunciation to pronounce it like the musical term "forte". Unfortunately the actual French pronunciation is more like "for".


But "for-tay" would be Italian. The full name of the piano is pianoforte, or fortepiano. Meaning the ability to play both loud and soft. Unlike the harpsichord which has precisely one attack.


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## Ingélou

I don't like words like pimple or polyp that remind me of yucky physical things. 

From that point of view, it's a pity the word 'carbuncle' has two usages as I can't read literary texts which list gems and treasures because I get the wrong mental associations.


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## pianozach

Ingélou said:


> I don't like words like pimple or polyp that remind me of yucky physical things.
> 
> From that point of view, it's a pity the word 'carbuncle' has two usages as I can't read literary texts which list gems and treasures because I get the wrong mental associations.


There's a reality TV show called "Dr. Pimple Popper", about a a board-certified dermatologist, skin cancer surgeon, and cosmetic surgeon.

I find it difficult to get past the title.


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## science

SixFootScowl said:


> I once heard a joke about someone from the deep south came to live in the north. He was excited to get a power mower at his new place, something he never had before and was rare where he came from. He told some folks at work how he got a power mower, but his thick southern accent made it come out sounding just like paramour. The ensuing confusion would have been pretty funny. Unfortunately I cannot find a copy of that joke.


I actually experienced a frightening version of that.

As a kid I lived in Wyoming, and I was used to the version of English spoken there, i.e., the correct one.

Then one summer when I was about eight years old my parents took us to West Virginia to meet our extended family, who spoke an even more correct version of English.

One of my uncles, now known to me as a sweet old guy, looked like a motorcycle gangster back then. Long hair, goatee, tattoos, the works.

He looked at me one afternoon out of nowhere and asked, "Yet?"

I stared at him, trying to ascertain whether asking "_What_ yet?" was more dangerous than remaining silent.

After a moment, he clarified, asking, "Yet, boy?"

I saved myself from dismemberment by realizing at the last possible moment that "yet" = "y'et" = "y'ate" = "Have you eaten?"

I am now in love with the old Appalachian English. I encourage everyone to watch the movie about the last dam run of likker Popcorn Sutton ever made to find out how this language we share is supposed to sound. Some a 'at language aint fittin' for a' years a some a 'ose young'uns 'ough. Maybe you'd call it, uh, PG thartain er so, sum'm roun'about 'ere.


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## elgar's ghost

pianozach said:


> There's a reality TV show called "Dr. Pimple Popper", about a a board-certified dermatologist, skin cancer surgeon, and cosmetic surgeon.
> 
> _I find it difficult to get past the title._


The title of the programme is about the most pleasant thing about it, if you ask me... :lol:


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## Chilham

On the subject of the word, "Title", one of the more embarrassing moments of my life was many years ago in a golf equipment shop asking about the, "Tit-leist" golf clubs, only to be politely corrected by the assistant and shown the, "Title-ist" golf clubs.


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## Forster

Tit-leist is so much more fun. And I thought exactly the same.


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## progmatist

Forster said:


> Tit-leist is so much more fun. And I thought exactly the same.


Yes, titillating.


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## geralmar

Wall wart



Sounds like a disgusting skin growth.


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## vincula

I hate buzzwords in general. One I simply can't put up with is "resilience" applied to education. It extends to the morons holding the conference too. Guess I'm not resilient enough to stand them.

Regards,

Vincula


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## verandai

I don't like the word "like", when it's excessively used.

Some people tend to, LIKE, use it LIKE in almost every sentence! 

As I'm not a native speaker, I don't know if that usage is concentrated to a certain region (dialect), or to a specific age group. Maybe someone can shed some light? I didn't hear this expression in the UK so far.

Thanks, Alex


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## geralmar

Dongle



Yes, I know it's connected to a computer to facilitate wireless broadband access; but it still sounds vaguely pornographic.


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## Krummhorn

Not a particular word, rather a phrase I detest after each stated (oral) sentence ... "you know what I mean?" Well, yes I know as you just said it. D'oh!


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## progmatist

geralmar said:


> Dongle
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know it's connected to a computer to facilitate wireless broadband access; but it still sounds vaguely pornographic.


Aren't dongles those wild dogs who roam the Australian Outback? "The dongle ate my baby!!"


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