# Beethoven sonatas: starting a second cycle. Kempff vs Brendel vs Gilels



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Hello,
I got myself my first Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a month ago. Claudio Arrau - perhaps a strange beginner's choice, but I love it.
I'd now like to hear some other interpretations to compare. I like what I read on here about Kempff, Brendel and Gilels - and I could kick off with any of these three via an introductory CD/2 CDs, featuring Waldstein, Appassionata and one or more others.
I know each of the three will have their fans on here, so perhaps more interesting is to ask: how would you characterise the three? 
E.g. is Kempff *lyrical*, Gilels *dramatic*, Brendel (1970s) *thoughtful*?
Thanks!
Steve


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> Hello,
> I got myself my first Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a month ago. Claudio Arrau - perhaps a strange beginner's choice, but I love it.
> I'd now like to hear some other interpretations to compare. I like what I read on here about Kempff, Brendel and Gilels - and I could kick off with any of these three via an introductory CD/2 CDs, featuring Waldstein, Appassionata and one or more others.
> I know each of the three will have their fans on here, so perhaps more interesting is to ask: how would you characterise the 3? E.g. is Kempff lyrical, Gilels dramatic, Brendel (1970s) thoughtful?
> ...


Hi Steve!

Welcome to TC! 

Nothing strange about it. Claudio Arrau was a terrific pianist!

My favorite Beethoven Piano Sonata cycle is the Annie Fischer set-she was fantastic and the set is legendary!

I would look up Rudolf Serkin's Beethoven Piano Sonata performances too. He was a great Beethoven pianist!

I've heard a few Brendel Beethoven sonata performances and they were fine.

Not familiar with either Gilels or Kempff, however.

Good luck!!!


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

Steve Wright said:


> Hello,
> I got myself my first Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a month ago. Claudio Arrau - perhaps a strange beginner's choice, but I love it.
> I'd now like to hear some other interpretations to compare. I like what I read on here about Kempff, Brendel and Gilels - and I could kick off with any of these three via an introductory CD/2 CDs, featuring Waldstein, Appassionata and one or more others.
> I know each of the three will have their fans on here, so perhaps more interesting is to ask: how would you characterise the three?
> ...


Sorry to let you down with the options, but for something different from Arrau, in order to make a comparative listening I would suggest:
Barenboim and Schnabel...

Of course there are thousands of other (and better) choices than Barenboim. My call is intended to point different readings.
Glenn Gould comes to my mind as well.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Steve Wright said:


> Hello,
> I got myself my first Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a month ago. Claudio Arrau - perhaps a strange beginner's choice, but I love it.
> I'd now like to hear some other interpretations to compare. I like what I read on here about Kempff, Brendel and Gilels - and I could kick off with any of these three via an introductory CD/2 CDs, featuring Waldstein, Appassionata and one or more others.
> I know each of the three will have their fans on here, so perhaps more interesting is to ask: how would you characterise the three?
> ...


That's about right!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Ya know, I might be crazy, but I'm not a fan of Kempff at all. Usually when I listen to his Beethoven piano sonatas, there are lots of aspects about the execution I find very sloppy.

Take the finale of the Waldstein for instance:






Starting around 15:35, it seems some of the triplet sixteenth notes are just blurred over and the transition out of the run sounds very messy to me.

At 16:16 when the rondo melody comes back, the sixteenth notes under them sound like they have gaps in them (and no, it's not the rests that are already there) and they sound pretty uneven sometimes, it gets especially bad at around 16:54, especially at the bottom of the run.

Then at 18:03...ooph, you even hear a flurry of wrong notes near the end of this passage (around 18:11). To me, it sounds like he's really trying to keep up with his own tempo and isn't very confident in it.

I don't know, is anyone else hearing this? Or am I just crazy?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

shadowdancer said:


> Sorry to let you down with the options, but for something different from Arrau, in order to make a comparative listening I would suggest:
> Barenboim and Schnabel...
> 
> Of course there are thousands of other (and better) choices than Barenboim. My call is intended to point different readings.
> Glenn Gould comes to my mind as well.


Good point, thank you!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Hi Steve!
> 
> Welcome to TC!
> 
> ...


Thank you! I went for your choice of Tokyo/RCA for the Quartets, btw...
No, you're right - Arrau is very fine. I just thought perhaps he wasn't someone that newbies typically went to. However, very chuffed with his beautiful, lyrical versions.
I'll have a look at Serkin and Fischer. I see very high praise for the former's Hammerklavier.


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## ShropshireMoose (Sep 2, 2013)

I'd second hpowders' choice of the Annie Fischer set, it is superb. Then there's Wilhelm Backhaus who has a rugged honest approach that I cannot but feel may well be how Beethoven himself may have approached his sonatas. If you want yet another contrast, there's a superb set by Friedrich Gulda (who is a real independent spirit) available cheaply, coupled with equally compelling accounts of the five piano concertos. Then there are all the pianists who didn't manage a full cycle, but who give you outstanding versions of individual sonatas. Solomon's recordings are very good, and there is a film of him on youtube playing the "Appassionata" which is a bit grainy but well worth watching. Horowitz recorded one of the finest versions of the "Pathetique" that you'll ever hear. If you can find them at a reasonable price, and don't mind rather elderly recordings, then the two CDs that Biddulph issued of Frederic Lamond (1868-1948) playing Beethoven, give a fascinating insight into the music making of a bygone age, Lamond was a pupil of Liszt. Then of course there are the always exciting, recordings of the full set by Artur Schnabel. Moiseiwitsch's recordings of the "Moonlight"/"Pathetique" and "Waldstein" (this latter is particularly good) offer yet another perspective, and are conveniently (and cheaply!) grouped on a Naxos CD (or even cheaper 2nd hand on apr which is a better cd!!). I could go on and on, but there's enough there to be going on with and oh how thrilling to have it all to discover. Best of luck!!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

As already said, there are bigger contrasts to Arrau to be found with pianists like Gould, Schnabel or Gilels, than with Kempff;

other options could be Kovacevich, or maybe Goodyear.

To this could of course be added a lot of individual sonata recordings.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I have the Kempf cycle (the second one), the Gilels (which is not quite compete sadly), and the Brendel (the earliest, from Vox, plus one later one). They are all very good, but my favorite among them is Gilels -- probably just personal taste.

However my go-to cycle is Schiff.

Some comments on various cycles here -- there have been more cycles since:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R3QZP1D2U2Q1EK/ref=cm_srch_res_rpsy_alt_1


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

violadude said:


> I don't know, is anyone else hearing this? Or am I just crazy?


If you are crazy then I must be too. I tried Kempf when I was first introducing myself to Beethoven's sonatas, and my reaction to his playing, to quote Gustavus from _The Grand Budapest Hotel_, was: "It's not that I don't like it, I am physically repulsed by it." So, another vote to avoid Kempf.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I like Kempff´s 2nd Hammerklavier, especially the Adagio, where he creates magic IMO, but I rarely listen to the other sonatas in the set.
(and concerning the piano concertos with Leitner, especially no.5 and also no.4).


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm weird, and this is my suggestion: the excellently recorded Audiophile Classics gold disc CDs, with various Russians. The sound is superb, and there's nothing to do in Russia except practice.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ics&rh=n:5174,k:Beethoven/Audiophile+Classics


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

EdwardBast said:


> If you are crazy then I must be too. I tried Kempf when I was first introducing myself to Beethoven's sonatas, and my reaction to his playing, to quote Gustavus from _The Grand Budapest Hotel_, was: "It's not that I don't like it, I am physically repulsed by it." So, another vote to avoid Kempf.


In fairness to Kempff, try his Schubert sonatas. They are very evenly paced, and do not have the same degree of technical difficulties as Beethoven; he plays them as a conductor plays an orchestra, and the result is relaxed and workmanlike. No thunder bolts here. This is the true essence of what you should look for in Kempff; a relaxed, under-the-radar kind of detachment. It's not 'exciting,' but 'excitement' is not what you should be looking for in Schubert, or Kempff. It's a perfect fit, as far as I'm concerned.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Kempff's first set is better than the later stereo. His technique is more stable. There are some magical performances in both sets, but the earlier one has the edge in technique. 
Serkin is also fine - not a complete set - as is Kovacevich.
Annie Fischer is self recommending.
Richter on a good day is unbeatable - listen to his Appasiobata - but he never recorded complete sets. 
Schnabel is fascinating but the recordings are ancient.
Gould goes from breathtaking to downright perverse but always has something to say. 
Pollini in the late sonatas is unbelievable.
Must confess I'm not fond of what I have of Gilels.


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## JohnnyRotten (Aug 10, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> If you are crazy then I must be too. I tried Kempf when I was first introducing myself to Beethoven's sonatas, and my reaction to his playing, to quote Gustavus from _The Grand Budapest Hotel_, was: "It's not that I don't like it, I am physically repulsed by it." So, another vote to avoid Kempf.


Love it! I'm in with yous guys EdwardBeast and ViolaDude - Kempf kaks on the keyboard! I once heard a recording of kak-handed Kempf playing the Moonlight that was pure fudge from note one to the end.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

violadude said:


> Ya know, I might be crazy, but I'm not a fan of Kempff at all. Usually when I listen to his Beethoven piano sonatas, there are lots of aspects about the execution I find very sloppy.
> 
> Take the finale of the Waldstein for instance:
> 
> I don't know, is anyone else hearing this? Or am I just crazy?


No, you're not crazy. In a recent thread I commented on this very aspect of his Waldstein. Accuracy was not Kempff's forte.

As to the OP, for a virtuosic yet musical reading that represents a strong counterpoint to Arrau, I highly recommend Richard Goode's complete set. Breathtaking virtuousity, preternatural accuracy, and well-considered interpretations make this one of my favorite cycles.

You might also consider the oft-overlooked complete set by Jenő Jandó for Naxos which can be downloaded for under $10. This is very well played in its own right, and a good baseline set by which to measure how much others veer from the norm.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

ShropshireMoose said:


> Solomon . . . there is a film of him on youtube playing the "Appassionata" which is a bit grainy but well worth watching.


Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads-up!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Balthazar said:


> As to the OP, for a virtuosic yet musical reading that represents a strong counterpoint to Arrau, I highly recommend Richard Goode's complete set. Breathtaking virtuousity, preternatural accuracy, and well-considered interpretations make this one of my favorite cycles.
> 
> You might also consider the oft-overlooked complete set by Jenő Jandó for Naxos which can be downloaded for under $10. This is very well played in its own right, and a good baseline set by which to measure how much others veer from the norm.


Agree totally. Goode's was the first set I owned, on LP. You seldom hear about him these days, but he's still concertizing. A fine cycle then and it still is.

Jandos's was the first cycle I bought on CD, Naxos CD by Naxos CD (I think they were then $5.99 each in those days). I seldom listen to it now because he's a bit dry for my taste, but there's no doubt it's an excellently-played cycle. At ten bucks, it should simply be considered a gift.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Beethoven's piano sonatas are an oeuvre that I seriously must look into getting a second... and third complete recording of. I have recordings of selected sonatas by Rubinstein, Ashkenazy, Gilels, Walter Gieseking, Richter, Solomon, Schnabel, Brendel, Serkin, Horowitz, Gould... and probably a few others to boot. I gave my Barenboim recording away to someone for Christmas. I just don't like Barenboim. I have the complete Kempff set (as well as his Schubert) which I quite like. Now I'm looking at Gulda, Pollini, and Gilels. Annie Fischer's set intrigues me... but at almost $90 US I think I'll hold off right now. For a little over half-as-much I could get both the Pollini and Gulda... which includes the concertos as well.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...Now I'm looking at Gulda, Pollini, and Gilels.


The Gulda cycle is terribly cheap from 3rd party vendors and includes the concertos as well. He is quite exciting and virtuosic but (in my opinion) sometimes pushes the tempos beyond a reasonable point. May be just my taste...

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Pia...21577&sr=1-1&keywords=beethoven+sonatas+gulda


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Giles I would 2nd, 3rd, 5th whatever. I can't rate this highly enough even if it is incomplete.

If a different interpretation is what you want then Mari Kodama's recent transversal on Pentatone is very interesting. Pupil of Brendel, wife of Kent Nagano, she takes a very light delicate approach, she makes the Hammerklavier sound a bit like Satie. Perhaps not anyone's first choice but technically adept and an intriguing, unusual listen nonetheless.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Hi Steve!
> 
> Welcome to TC!
> 
> ...


Arrau was my first complete set. His set was deeply discounted back in the lp days and between the playing, the quiet record surfaces, and the low price was an irrestible purchase.
Fischer is also my current favorite
Compared to those 2 Brendel can sound lean and analytical . The OP may also want a fortepiano cycle for contrast.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

Steve Wright said:


> Hello,
> I got myself my first Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a month ago. Claudio Arrau - perhaps a strange beginner's choice, but I love it.
> I'd now like to hear some other interpretations to compare. I like what I read on here about Kempff, Brendel and Gilels - and I could kick off with any of these three via an introductory CD/2 CDs, featuring Waldstein, Appassionata and one or more others.
> I know each of the three will have their fans on here, so perhaps more interesting is to ask: how would you characterise the three?
> ...


Claudio Arrau is a pianist whose light is beginning to dim, probably because he hasn't been dead long enough to become a "legend," but he certainly is in my opinion one of a handful of musicians who can truly be called great, and his Beethoven set is one to own.
I haven't heard much of Kempff and what I did (from his second DG cycle) was disappointed with - he omitted the Hammerklavier's 1st movement repeat which ruins the piece for me, and guess the same went for some of the other sonatas. I'm rather biased towards the last Brendel set as I heard him live playing the whole cycle at the Wigmore Hall, and the CDs are now at a criminally low price, as is the Pollini set which offers a near definitive rendition of the late sonatas.
As with Beethoven's late quartets there will be in time many recordings you will want to own and each pianist offers their own unique stamp on the works. A few other favourites worth bearing in mind would be Schnabel, Solomon, Serkin, Annie Fischer and of course, Gilels. There are dozens more and time allowing all worthy of investigation.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A couple of recent cycles I'm enjoying: (1) Buchbinder's new cycle, all played live without edits. Excellent throughout and with a nice sense of spontaneity. (2) Bavouzet's still-unfinished cycle. I wasn't expecting much, but it seems this guy simply excels at everything!


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

*Claudio Arrau *may be the best choice, I think. Last year I was crasy about listening to Beefhoven's piano sonatas. Several recordings were already my favorites(ex. Richter's _Appasionata_, Glen Gould's _#12_), but when I listened to the Philips recording of Waldstein by played by Arrau, I decided to buy the complete 32 pieces by this gigantic but also sensitive pianist. I had already had the complete Beethoven's by Friedrich Goulda which somehow I never listened to. I also know and like Pollini's latest numbers (when he was young). However now if I choose the entrance of this series I don't hesitate to recommend *Arrau's Decca recordings*.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

KenOC said:


> A couple of recent cycles I'm enjoying: (1) Buchbinder's new cycle, all played live without edits. Excellent throughout and with a nice sense of spontaneity. (2) Bavouzet's still-unfinished cycle. I wasn't expecting much, but it seems this guy simply excels at everything!


I'm not a true Beethoven 'connaisseur', but for recent cycles, I would like to add the possibility to compare the great Claudio Arrau with the excellent cycles of François-Frédéric Guy (Zig Zag Territoires), Mélodie Zhao (Claves) or Daniel-Ben Pienaar (Avie).

Or try, as Triplets suggested, a Period Instrument cycle ... like Malcolm Bilson & pupils (Claves) or Ronald Brautigam (BIS).

There are too many choices to make, I fear.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

News flash: Annie Fischer's well known and rather intense Beethoven sonata cycle, played on her big Bosendorfer, is available as a download from CD universe. Given its usual cost, the $9.99 price is quite a bargain and probably shouldn't be missed.

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=9039500


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

KenOC said:


> News flash: Annie Fischer's well known and rather intense Beethoven sonata cycle, played on her big Bosendorfer, is available as a download from CD universe. Given its usual cost, the $9.99 price is quite a bargain and probably shouldn't be missed.
> 
> http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=9039500


Thanks for the heads up, Ken. I've been interested in picking up this cycle.


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