# Novax Jokeavich.



## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Well what are your views on this number 1 Tennis star *V* Australia.
IMO his right to determine what goes into his body is OK but he must realise it does affect other people and that is not without consequences.
I also think it could have been handled better by Australia.

SO…


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

No sympathy here for him Dan. I hear he can think water pure with good emotions and his wife believes that 5g is responsible for cv19...enough said...game set and match. Determining what goes into one's body needs to be assessed responsibly imv and with critical, accurately informed thinking, especially in curcumstances where the impact of such a decision for others could be fatal. Woo woo is not an option.

Well done Australia.

(Funny thread title btw)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

This is not Area51 material. I'll move it to the Community Forum.

Please note that discussion of how governments handle the current pandemic falls under politics and is therefore off-limit.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I guess he has every right to disagree with a policy and live with the consequences as long as he is honest with other people so that we can protect ourselves from him.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Judging by the coverage, he was not going to find anyone else there to play against anyway. Nadal who?


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

He should have boycotted Australia out of principle. But the temptation of £16 million? Every man's got his price.



(I'm using old speak here, but of course I know gender-fluids, trans, gays, bis, curious, lesbians, + may well have their price too)


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Although from Serbia I dont support him...He was disrespectful toward the Host country and also his followers spewed lots of false, megalomaniac conspiracies and ''battle cries''.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I think he should have the right to do what he wants with his body, and that the Australians should have the right to set policy for their country


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

His dad and others called hium a ''New Jesus Christ''...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I gather the Soshul Meejah joke is that he's the only person to be deported from a country for NOT taking drugs.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Triplets said:


> I think he should have the right to do what he wants with his body, and that the Australians should have the right to set policy for their country


Yep. Choices have consequences.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Dude, if you want to come into my house, you need to take your shoes off. Won't take them off then you're not welcome. Your entitled to keeping your shoes on but, my house, my rules.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I think he looked like a pathetic figure. Should be interesting to see how he approaches the next major tournament - France.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Now he knows how we mere mortals live.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Reminder: no politics please, also not jokingly. The thread is about Djokovic and Australia, not about politicians. One post was deleted.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

HenryPenfold said:


> He should have boycotted Australia out of principle. But the temptation of £16 million? Every man's got his price.
> 
> (I'm using old speak here, but of course I know gender-fluids, trans, gays, bis, curious, lesbians, + may well have their price too)


Are gay men not men?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Well, he just lost a chance at winning another major. It also looks like he’s not going to get into the French Open unless he gets vaccinated. This is where you put your money (and your professional future) where your mouth is. If he’s serious about not getting vaccinated, then he can just sit out the rest of the year when it comes to grand slams...and maybe next year also. No sympathy here!


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Getting vaccinated is a choice. There are pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to make his/her own decision about whether or not it is right to get vaccinated. We have no clue as to the long term effects of the COVID vaccines, and they may not be necessary, effective, or with it for everyone. It is not right to bar someone from entering a country on account of his vaccination status. The analogy made in this thread about having to take your shoes off as you enter someone's house breaks down: a public institution like the Australian government does not possess the same regulatory power over its domain as does an owner of a private home.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Getting vaccinated is a choice. There are pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to make his/her own decision about whether or not it is right to get vaccinated. We have no clue as to the long term effects of the COVID vaccines, and they may not be necessary, effective, or with it for everyone. It is not right to bar someone from entering a country on account of his vaccination status. The analogy made in this thread about having to take your shoes off as you enter someone's house breaks down: a public institution like the Australian government does not possess the same regulatory power over its domain as does an owner of a private home.


We certainly have personal rights about what we do with our bodies. We also have societal responsibilities and we agree (to varying degrees within each country) to abide by certain rules for the good of the community, and we also agree to there being consequences for those who decide to break those rules. There inevitably remains a minority that disagrees with such rules and consequences on personal philosophical grounds, but they, and we, mostly find some kind of accommodation for those philosophies. (I'm thinking, for example, of home education where school education is the norm.)

We do have many clues about the effectiveness of the vaccines, and many about the long term effects of other vaccines and, therefore, plenty about the likely long-term effects of those for Covid. The question seems to be whether you accept the information on offer from government via maintsream media about the vaccines when some are mistrustful of both source and medium.

Never mind the analogy. If the Australian government doesn't want ND to enter their country, they can bar him and that's that.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

The first duty of any government is to protect its people so in this pandemic it is the borders that are the first priority, however in Aussie the UK and the USA + others it is already wide spread so is one more risky import all that important? On the other hand, a country sets its own rules and visitors must be prepared to abide by these rules. Not rocket science just common sense IMO.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Getting vaccinated is a choice. There are pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to make his/her own decision about whether or not it is right to get vaccinated. *We have no clue as to the long term effects of the COVID vaccines, and they may not be necessary, effective, or with it for everyone.* It is not right to bar someone from entering a country on account of his vaccination status. The analogy made in this thread about having to take your shoes off as you enter someone's house breaks down: a public institution like the Australian government does not possess the same regulatory power over its domain as does an owner of a private home.


Is there any basis for thinking mRNA in a lipid shell would have any long term effects whatever, other than immunity from Covid? Neither survives the inoculation process. Indulging the vague imaginings of the scientifically illiterate in a pandemic is dangerous.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...afa-Nadal-Roger-Federer-cancel-Australia-visa


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I am not exaggerating when I say the future of the human race, based on recent experience, does not bode well. The educated scientists create a wondrously safe and effective vaccine and not enough of the population will take it for their own selfish reasons so that others die and herd immunity is not attained. Even after 2 years proving the safety of repeated doses of the vaccine, people still won’t get vaccinated and 1500/day die and hospitals are overloaded and can’t treat other severe conditions (heart attacks and strokes’).

Educated scientists keep warning about the dangers to the planet of Climate Change, but, inexplicably...or maybe not.., the same segment of the population that ‘thinks up off the top of its own heads’ it’s own science when it comes to vaccination, does the same with climate change and nothing substantive is done.

Well, a virus worse than Covid can come along and Climate Change is only going to get worse and the population is apparently not going to learn from this. It’s only going to get more selfish and ignorant.

End of rant.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Getting vaccinated is a choice. There are pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to make his/her own decision about whether or not it is right to get vaccinated. We have no clue as to the long term effects of the COVID vaccines, and they may not be necessary, effective, or with it for everyone. It is not right to bar someone from entering a country on account of his vaccination status. The analogy made in this thread about having to take your shoes off as you enter someone's house breaks down: a public institution like the Australian government does not possess the same regulatory power over its domain as does an owner of a private home.


Stopping for a red light is also a choice. If people chose not to, I'd be afraid to be anywhere near an intersection.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I think that the obsession of the media (and others) with Djokovic’s vaccination status is probably the most absurd episode of the entire pandemic (and not from lack of competition).


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> I think that the obsession of the media (and others) with Djokovic's vaccination status is probably the most absurd episode of the entire pandemic (and not from lack of competition).


There are probably several reasons for it. But one that occurs to me is that he is a well known sports figure who has also been known as an antivaxxer. Those in the public eye who have been antivaxxers have, more often than not, been able to get away with it without consequences even though they do great harm. Now we have someone having to publicly face consequences that hurt themselves.

There have been other examples of consequences where people have spread antivax lies by their popular radio programs and eventually died from Covid, but people aren't comfortable publicizing these events for obvious reasons. But Djokovic is not being harmed physically so he's fair game to make an example of.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Well sometimes you just gotta laugh in the face of it....


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Getting vaccinated is a choice. There are pros and cons, and it is up to each individual to make his/her own decision about whether or not it is right to get vaccinated. We have no clue as to the long term effects of the COVID vaccines, and they may not be necessary, effective, or with it for everyone. It is not right to bar someone from entering a country on account of his vaccination status. The analogy made in this thread about having to take your shoes off as you enter someone's house breaks down: a public institution like the Australian government does not possess the same regulatory power over its domain as does an owner of a private home.


If anything, a sovereign country possesses more regulatory power over its domain than an individual owning a private home. They have a police force and a military to enforce their decrees. Wouldn't it be nice to have a tank sitting at your side when you have a property line dispute with your neighbor?


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

DaveM said:


> I am not exaggerating when I say the future of the human race, based on recent experience, does not bode well. The educated scientists create a wondrously safe and effective vaccine and not enough of the population will take it for their own selfish reasons so that others die and herd immunity is not attained.


"Herd immunity" was an unproven concept with Covid from the start, and now we've learned that with enough unvaccinated hosts running around, the virus mutates. Some of these mutations don't care about a previous Covid infection; they are enough mutated that you can get Covid again.

As long as there is a pool of hosts for the virus, it will continue to mutate.

One of these mutations in the future may well be more fatal.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Media in serbai speculate that he will abandon teeennis for good.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

This just in, haawwt
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...WHebSQHy4MFGQVtQePuxrswgDeN-pfvguRPJk83El-SKc


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Triplets said:


> If anything, a sovereign country possesses more regulatory power over its domain than an individual owning a private home. They have a police force and a military to enforce their decrees. Wouldn't it be nice to have a tank sitting at your side when you have a property line dispute with your neighbor?


I have acquired a new neighbor, a young man in his late 20s who has absolutely no consideration for his neighbor (me) and is a bit of a bully boy, Yeh a Tank LOL


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

He only made it harder for regular ppl of Serbian origin to enter down under...I already hear some stories...


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Flamme said:


> He only made it harder for regular ppl of Serbian origin to enter down under...I already hear some stories...


As the world's best men's tennis player Novak Djokovic has the admiration of millions of people. More generally, Serbia is well recognized for its athletes and people working in many different areas. It is unfortunate that Djokovic is involved in the opposition to COVID-19 vaccination. In my opinion he is painting himself into a corner that will be hard to escape.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Does anyone else find it odd that the inventor of the PCR test came out publicly and said that the test doesn't work for finding viruses? He also said the problem today is that people don't know the difference between real science and opportunists with an agenda. He died shortly before the pandemic. Or how about the fact that the inventor of the the mRNA vaccine is now warning people against taking it? Do you think these people are just scientifically illiterate? Do you think it is ok that many other doctors and scientists like these individuals that are asking questions are being shunned and silenced? 

I wonder if people actually know what science is anymore? Here is a clue, when only one side of the story is encouraged to be talked about, and people are discouraged from asking questions and doing their own research that is not what science is, that is what propaganda is.

What I see today being displayed by many is akin to the religious belief that was given to the ancient priests of old who were taken to be the experts on all matters because they were in communication with the divine. This is the kind of religious fervor that many here follow the mainstream media with. Remember that big pharma gives millions of dollars to media companies and to the government. That is not conducive to objective scientific information coming from these platforms.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

mikeh375 said:


> Well sometimes you just gotta laugh in the face of it....
> 
> View attachment 163175


Right on. If I was to be at the airport when the English team come home I would catapult them with old face masks. What an embarrassing clueless bunch of melts.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

tdc said:


> Does anyone else find it odd that the inventor of the PCR test came out publicly and said that the test doesn't work for finding viruses? He also said the problem today is that people don't know the difference between real science and opportunists with an agenda. He died shortly before the pandemic. Or how about the fact that the inventor of the the mRNA vaccine is now warning people against taking it? Do you think these people are just scientifically illiterate? Do you think it is ok that many other doctors and scientists like these individuals that are asking questions are being shunned and silenced?
> 
> I wonder if people actually know what science is anymore? Here is a clue, when only one side of the story is encouraged to be talked about, and people are discouraged from asking questions and doing their own research that is not what science is, that is what propaganda is.
> 
> What I see today being displayed by many is akin to the religious belief that was given to the ancient priests of old who were taken to be the experts on all matters because they were in communication with the divine. This is the kind of religious fervor that many here follow the mainstream media with. Remember that big pharma gives millions of dollars to media companies and to the government. That is not conducive to objective scientific information coming from these platforms.


Links or it didn't happe...no, nevermind. This is not the time nor place so forget I ever responded.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

tdc said:


> Does anyone else find it odd [...]


I find it odd that the average citizen on the internet is expected to believe random 'odd' facts posted by sources that may not be trustworthy and to suddenly stop believing hitherto generally trustworthy sources.

I know that if I post what I've found about what the inventor of the PCR test is alleged to have said, attempts would be made to discredit my source.

If there are people out there whose primary position is to believe in conspiracies, there's nothing anyone can say to dissuade them. Given the general level of competence in most organisations, the prospect of business, media, government and the medical profession all being able to pull the wool over the eyes of the public is remote.

"You can fool some of the people..." etc


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

NoCoPilot said:


> Links or it didn't happe...no, nevermind.


But here are links that might be useful.

https://fullfact.org/online/pcr-test-mullis/

https://www.theatlantic.com/science...lone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

tdc said:


> Does anyone else find it odd that the inventor of the PCR test came out publicly and said that the test doesn't work for finding viruses? He also said the problem today is that people don't know the difference between real science and opportunists with an agenda. He died shortly before the pandemic. Or how about the fact that the inventor of the the mRNA vaccine is now warning people against taking it? Do you think these people are just scientifically illiterate? Do you think it is ok that many other doctors and scientists like these individuals that are asking questions are being shunned and silenced?
> 
> I wonder if people actually know what science is anymore? Here is a clue, when only one side of the story is encouraged to be talked about, and people are discouraged from asking questions and doing their own research that is not what science is, that is what propaganda is...


The inventor of the PCR test had issues with its specific use to detect HIV and never said it didn't work for finding viruses in general. The person warning people against taking a mRNA vaccine is not _the_ inventor of mRNA. He along with a number of others, took part in early investigations that gave rise to the development of mRNA.

And 5G towers didn't/doesn't cause symptoms otherwise attributed to Covid.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Back to the Djokovic saga (There is a Group 'downstairs' for the general discussion of Covid by the way)

According to a BBC article, there is a considerable possibility that the timing of the positive Covid test Novak Djokovic used to enter Australia to try to compete in the Australian Open has been 'doctored'. Link.

If that is indeed the case, I hope he gets banned from all tournaments.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

Instead of the Nadal-Djokovic semi final, there was Nadal-Berrettini in the Australian Open. Nadal won (3-1).
Caruso played instead of Djokovic, who lost in the 1st round without winning a set.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Forster said:


> I find it odd that the average citizen on the internet is expected to believe random 'odd' facts posted by sources that may not be trustworthy and to suddenly stop believing hitherto generally trustworthy sources.
> 
> I know that if I post what I've found about what the inventor of the PCR test is alleged to have said, attempts would be made to discredit my source.
> 
> ...


People who do "research" start with the assumption if it's on the internet, it must be true. Buying a domain name and server space is as easy as buying a book on Amazon. The only restriction would be a domain name can't already be owned by somebody else. Even then if somebody owns {name} dot com, the dot org, dot net, et cetera may still be available. Creating a web page is as easy as creating a Word document. Any crackpot can do it. There's no gatekeeper telling anyone they can't.

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.........


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Professional athletes are in peak physical condition, and I get that they can be very skeptical about what they put in their bodies.

I also "get" that one athlete out on the field isn't going to infect a stadium full of fans.

So to some extent I accept that people like Brady and Djokovic are being made "role models" against their will. I say "too bad." With their salaries comes a responsibility.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

NoCoPilot said:


> So to some extent I accept that people like Brady and Djokovic are being made "role models" against their will. I say "too bad." With their salaries comes a responsibility.


Both No-vax and Karen Rogers got their just dessert.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> Is there any basis for thinking mRNA in a lipid shell would have any long term effects whatever,* other than immunity from Covid*? Neither survives the inoculation process. Indulging the vague imaginings of the scientifically illiterate in a pandemic is dangerous.


Well, the one effect of the vaccines that we _do_ know is that it doesn't confer immunity. Everything else is up in the air, like all drugs that haven't finished stage 3 trials.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

tdc said:


> Does anyone else find it odd that the inventor of the PCR test came out publicly and said that the test doesn't work for finding viruses? He also said the problem today is that people don't know the difference between real science and opportunists with an agenda. He died shortly before the pandemic. Or how about the fact that the inventor of the the mRNA vaccine is now warning people against taking it? Do you think these people are just scientifically illiterate? Do you think it is ok that many other doctors and scientists like these individuals that are asking questions are being shunned and silenced?
> 
> I wonder if people actually know what science is anymore? Here is a clue, when only one side of the story is encouraged to be talked about, and people are discouraged from asking questions and doing their own research that is not what science is, that is what propaganda is.
> 
> What I see today being displayed by many is akin to the religious belief that was given to the ancient priests of old who were taken to be the experts on all matters because they were in communication with the divine. This is the kind of religious fervor that many here follow the mainstream media with. Remember that big pharma gives millions of dollars to media companies and to the government. That is not conducive to objective scientific information coming from these platforms.


The level of disinformation is staggering.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

bz3 said:


> Well, the one effect of the vaccines that we _do_ know is that it doesn't confer immunity. Everything else is up in the air, like all drugs that haven't finished stage 3 trials.


Well, for some people it apparently does, but overall, like the flu vaccine, it has a reliable effect of markedly reducing serious disease. Also, less known is that if one has had 2 or more shots, one is unlikely to develop long Covid.

Btw, the last year has served as a massive Phase 4 trial and the mRNA vaccines have passed with flying colors.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

bz3 said:


> Well, the one effect of the vaccines that we _do_ know is that it doesn't confer immunity. Everything else is up in the air, like all drugs that haven't finished stage 3 trials.


The drug trial book has had to be rewritten...and no bad thing it seems.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

I have had 2 jabs plus the booster but am still being very careful, the important thing is that it reduces the effect of Covid therefore you do not have to go to hospital. I suggest No jabs = No hospital.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

If I were a pro tennis player, I'd be mighty pissed off if it turns out Novax lied about the timings of his symptoms (as if not being vaccinated isn't enough anyway). Irresponsible flouting of safegaurds can lead to chains of infections that either result in death or long covid, neither are conducive to winning tournaments. C'mon Rafa..


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

bz3 said:


> Well, the one effect of the vaccines that we _do_ know is that it doesn't confer immunity. Everything else is up in the air, like all drugs that haven't finished stage 3 trials.


The problem with "natural immunity" is it protects only against the specific strain one catches. Having caught the flu 5 years ago offers ZERO protection against this year's strain. Since the new mRNA vaccines aren't DNA based, they're not nearly so strain specific. As their use is expanded, we'll likely have a new flu vaccine every few years, rather than annually.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

He should be used to it all in tennis, miss a couple of shots and you're out.

What a total and utter [email protected] he is.


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