# How do you recognize a good conductor?



## aglayaepanchin (Jul 24, 2016)

Hi,

I have been enthusiastically listening to classical music for about a year and a half now but I still consider myself mainly a beginner on the subject. I see all this discussion (on Youtube for example) about whether some conductor or his/her interpretation or performance is good or not. This has started me wondering about the qualities of a good conductor.

So what makes a conductor or a performance (besides the aspects of personal preference such as tempi etc.)? What are regarded as the possible "mistakes" of a conductor and how to separate them from the mistakes of the orchestra/players. Currently my only criteria to evaluate a performance is tempo and those dynamic choices which are clear enough for me to observe, and I would be glad to have a wider perspective.

Thanks!

PS. While on the subject of recognizing, I have another question also. Is there a way to spot a cadenza? Cadenza is a term mentioned frequently in the discussion about piano concertos for example (and to be more specific especially when talking about the third concerto of a certain Sergei Vasilievich [spelling from Wikipedia]). I would like to be able to recognize one. Is there a way to tell when a cadenza takes place by simply listening or do you have to be familiar with the score?

Thanks again!


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2017)

aglayaepanchin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been enthusiastically listening to classical music for about a year and a half now but I still consider myself mainly a beginner on the subject. I see all this discussion (on Youtube for example) about whether some conductor or his/her interpretation or performance is good or not. This has started me wondering about the qualities of a good conductor.
> 
> ...


A cadenza is a kind of improvisation ( in the piece) for the instrument,violin or piano alone


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Good heat transference


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

A good conductor is the one who reeds the score in a way that comes closest to the composer intentions, besides that, his own interpretation can be a good guidance for your ears. So I suggest you read the Beethoven topic for example or the Mahler for that matter. Opinions in all sorts floating around.

http://www.talkclassical.com/43909-if-you-could-only.html


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Second first: A cadenza is a solo passage for the instrumental soloist, either improvised or written out by the composer to sound sort of improvised. They usually occur at the end of first and last movements, announced by a leading chord in the orchestra, which then drops out completely. The soloist does his thing, and announces he's done by ending with (usualloy) a trill on the dominant, which is a signal for the orchestra to come back in and wrap things up.

The flip answer to the first (How do you tell a good conductor?) is: With your ears. 

More seriously, it's easier to tell a bad one (self-indulgent, flights of fancy) than a good one. And it takes a more than casual knowledge of the music to really get it. The job of a conductor is simple: To know more about the music, the score, the composer, his ouvre, the conventions of the time, the composer's expectations, instrumental capabilities and performance practices (then and now), the acoustic, and capabilities of the orchestra than anyone else in the hall. Then bring this knowledge to bear in rehearsal and guide the orchestra closely in performance without getting too much in the way, presenting to the listener as close what he figures the composer would have wanted/intended as possible. The requirements form a three-legged stool: knowledge -- judgment -- technique. The more you listen, the more you get a feel for it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

aglayaepanchin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been enthusiastically listening to classical music for about a year and a half now but I still consider myself mainly a beginner on the subject. I see all this discussion (on Youtube for example) about whether some conductor or his/her interpretation or performance is good or not. This has started me wondering about the qualities of a good conductor.
> 
> ...


The main cadenza usually occurs near the end of the first movement of a concerto by Mozart or Beethoven. It is usually announced by the orchestra with great fanfare. It is played alone by the soloist-pianist or violinist- and is a virtuosic piece that uses musical themes from the first movement to give the soloist a chance to "strut his/her stuff" and can last from 1.5 to 3 minutes in length. At the cadenza's conclusion, the orchestra comes back, playing music that brings the movement to its conclusion. There is usually a shorter cadenza near the end of the final movement of a Mozart or Beethoven concerto, also.

Here is a 3 minute & 20 seconds lead in to a first movement cadenza written by Beethoven for Mozart's Piano Concerto no. 20:


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## Rys (Nov 26, 2016)

A good composer has a passion to share his ideas on means to be their unique view on a musical piece. A good conductor has set views on how a piece should be played and won't flip on positions a lot. Take Mozart for example some conductors specialize in period instrument performances, and some don't. 
A good composer will not give us stereotypical performances they show us the story behind the notes through the emotions and simple nuances in tempo and dynamics. I think the more the recording gives you Emotions, then the better the conductor is. It's a hard concept to grasp, try starting out with different performances of piano works.There is many different preferences in performances. 
Hpowders has a good post in cadenzas. Mozart's cadenza sections are easy to recognize.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

aglayaepanchin said:


> So what makes a conductor or a performance (besides the aspects of personal preference such as tempi etc.)? What are regarded as the possible "mistakes" of a conductor and how to separate them from the mistakes of the orchestra/players. Currently my only criteria to evaluate a performance is tempo and those dynamic choices which are clear enough for me to observe, and I would be glad to have a wider perspective.


This is probably the best way to do it when it comes to recordings. Many recordings are made with splices where errors are re-recorded. Then again, this isn't done with all recordings depending on a number of factors. It would be easy to say that one conductor or orchestra who did a pretty flawless recorded performance is better than one where there are some errors, but you really can't assume that unless you know the conductor's and record label's take on splices. Plus, there are any number of acoustic, balance, and other sound engineering/mastering issues which make judging conductors based on recordings difficult outside of stuff like tempo, HIP style, and so forth.


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

aglayaepanchin said:


> Hi,
> 
> PS. While on the subject of recognizing, I have another question also. Is there a way to spot a cadenza? Cadenza is a term mentioned frequently in the discussion about piano concertos for example (and to be more specific especially when talking about the third concerto of a certain Sergei Vasilievich [spelling from Wikipedia]). I would like to be able to recognize one. Is there a way to tell when a cadenza takes place by simply listening or do you have to be familiar with the score?
> 
> Thanks again!


I also had questions about cadenzas, so I started this thread & got lots of helpful explanations, 
take a look ... 

http://www.talkclassical.com/48531-dumb-newbie-question-sorry.html


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

A good conductor is one that whips the members of the orchestra.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> A good conductor is one that whips the members of the orchestra...


...but doesn't leave tell-tale marks.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Good conductors have a consistent art of conducting that makes the music speak better than other conductors.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

ArtMusic said:


> Good conductors have a consistent art of conducting that makes the music speak better than other conductors.


Not so - conductors have likes and dislikes, as we all do, and work better in certain parts of the repertoire and less so in others. That lack of consistency does not make them a less than good conductor.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is another clue for a good conductor, the name starts with "Sir".


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

topo morto said:


> ...but doesn't leave tell-tale marks.


Is there electricity involved?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Here is another clue for a good conductor, the name starts with "Sir".


Does it sounds like a rattle :angel:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Does it sounds like a rattle :angel:


Yes, or also if he is a mariner, among some of them.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One can always send away to a novelty store for a "good conductor" button one could wear on one's shirt.

Makes the job of recognizing one so much easier.


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