# Conservatoire audition pieces



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I would like to know people's thoughts on this as an audition programme for the RCM

Liszt: Mazeppa
Mozart: Rondo in A minor, K. 511
Liszt: Un sospiro


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

change one of the liszt pieces to bach


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Burroughs said:


> I would like to know people's thoughts on this as an audition programme for the RCM
> 
> Liszt: Mazeppa
> Mozart: Rondo in A minor, K. 511
> Liszt: Un sospiro


If you sure you can play it, go for Mazeppa .
It's a beautiful piece and should score point big time.:tiphat:


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks guys, I went to see my teacher this morning and he suggested -

Mozart: Fantasia in C Minor, K. 396
Liszt: Mazeppa
Sculthorpe: Stars

Does this sound like a better way to go?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Burroughs said:


> Thanks guys, I went to see my teacher this morning and he suggested -
> 
> Mozart: Fantasia in C Minor, K. 396
> Liszt: Mazeppa
> ...


I misread your post, silly me, I thought it was a choice you had to make from those pieces.
This program sounds fine, good variation, go for it.:tiphat:


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I think I might change the stars to Debussy's ondine


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Burroughs said:


> I think I might change the stars to Debussy's ondine


Does that make you feel more comfortable?


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm sorry to say this but I don't agree with the advice given here, with the exception of Stomanek's suggestion of Bach.

The RCM audition is of crucial importance to you so you need to ensure your chosen pieces are the right ones. It's also important that you take the advice of your teacher over any other advice your receive. Advice from a forum may not take into account the detail you need to consider.

Mazeppa is almost certainly too difficult - and it's also too long for an audition piece. Audition panels regularly have to listen to prospective students playing music which is too difficult - and that results in failure. If anything, you should choose something which is very slightly too easy for you so that you can really express yourself.

Don't forget that you have to play from memory, so you should factor this into your thinking.
The RCM, like other conservatoires, ask for pieces of contrasting periods and styles (so 2 Liszt pieces would be wrong).

I suggest Bach, Mozart and a third by a romantic/contemporary composer.

Remember that 15 minutes is the maximum.

Good luck!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

@pugg - yep xP

@Johann Sebastian Bach - I could play un sospiro instead of Mazeppa, however my teacher (who applied for both the RAM and RCM and was offered a place at both) thinks that I need a virtuosic piece like Mazeppa in my program. Personally Mazeppa suits my technique rather well and by the time I get to the audition it should be well prepared. In contrast I wouldn't even attempt to play something like Chopin's 4th ballade, a piece that many people audition with, as it doesn't suit my technique as well. Let me know what you think.

Also I can't see where it says 15mins max it says they last for 15-20mins, if I'm missing something could you post the link, it'd be much appreciated


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

Your teacher obviously knows you very well and I don't, so if s/he recommends Mazeppa, then go for it. My only remaining caution is to think about its length - if my memory serves me correctly, it's over 7 minutes long, which is about half your audition.
But let me repeat - your teacher's advice is worth far more than mine.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks a lot, and I think I edited my post just as you posted, so if you missed it xP


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Just try the whole thing, like an dress rehearsal, see how it goes, once you do that,and your feeling comfortable don't change anything again. Gives you peach of mind a rest and concentrate on it.
Please do let us know the outcome.:tiphat:


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

The RCM audition requirements are at

http://www.rcm.ac.uk/apply/auditions/auditionpieces/keyboard/

It says "at least 15 minutes" but my experience it that you're unlikely to be allowed to play for much longer. The auditions are very pressured times for the staff so, reluctantly, they will often stop a performance mid-piece. You therefore need to be sure that your very best playing falls into a 15 minute schedule.

Let me repeat my earlier advice - your teacher knows you best of all and should be the main person to advise you.

As Pugg says, let us know how it goes.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

teachers dont always know best sadly. but if your teacher recommends a and b then you had better follow it.

not sure about Sculthorpe though - a major 20thC composer would be better - the panelists may not know sculthorpe at all.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Yep, in post 6 in mentioned I am changing it to Debussy's Ondine


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Burroughs said:


> Yep, in post 6 in mentioned I am changing it to Debussy's Ondine


ok - great choice - sounds promising


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Personally I would prepare:

1) Baroque/Classical (Bach, Mozart) - Technically polished piece
2) 19th Century Romantic/Impressionism (Liszt, Chopin, Debussy) - Virtuoso piece
3) 20th/21st Century Contemporary (BIG bonus for a Canadian composer) - Interpretive finesse


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

stomanek said:


> teachers dont always know best sadly. but if your teacher recommends a and b then you had better follow it.


The op says his teacher auditioned for two of the major UK conservatoires. That alone is a significant qualification to be a good advisor. But I accept the generalisation that not all teachers give the best advice (98% of them do, though). The advice provided on a board such as this, no matter how well intentioned, is generalised and usually comes from well-meaning people who don't have the experience of active professional musicians.



stomanek said:


> not sure about Sculthorpe though - a major 20thC composer would be better - the panelists may not know sculthorpe at all.


You do them a disservice. Audition panels at the RAM, RCM, Guildhall, etc. are made up from some of the finest experienced musicians in the country.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Johann Sebastian Bach said:


> The op says his teacher auditioned for two of the major UK conservatoires. That alone is a significant qualification to be a good advisor. But I accept the generalisation that not all teachers give the best advice (*98% of them do, though*). *The advice provided on a board such as this, no matter how well intentioned, is generalised and usually comes from well-meaning people who don't have the experience of active professional musicians.*
> 
> You do them a disservice. Audition panels at the RAM, RCM, Guildhall, etc. are made up from some of the finest experienced musicians in the country.


I am not a musician - my son is - and I have seen much over the years at all levels as I have been closely involved with his musical education. Otherwise I would never offer my advice on this matter. I also wonder why he is asking on a public forum when he has a teacher - I find that very strange. I dont think his teacher would be impressed at all.

98% is way too high a figure. Even at the top end that is way to high. There are many dedicated excellent teachers - but there are as many who dont do a good enough job. I suppose it depends on how seriously they take the trust young people put in them.

Sculthorpe is relatively osbcure and in any case Debussy seems to be a safe and sensible choice.

I once saw a masterclass where a well known pianist sat bemused as a student played something contemporary and obscure and the master announced at the end of the recital - "well as I dont know the piece I will have to trust your interpretation, next student please!"


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

stomanek said:


> 98% is way too high a figure. Even at the top end that is way to high. There are many dedicated excellent teachers - but *there are as many who dont do a good enough job*.


If you say "there are as many who don't do a good job" you mean that 50% of music teachers do a good job and 50% don't. You admit you're not a musician, so I contend that your analysis must be based on a very small sample size - perhaps 10 or 20 teachers. That is statistically insignificant because there are thousands of music teachers in the UK alone, so your contention is flawed.



stomanek said:


> Sculthorpe is relatively osbcure and in any case Debussy seems to be a safe and sensible choice.
> I once saw a masterclass where a well known pianist sat bemused as a student played something contemporary and obscure and the master announced at the end of the recital - "well as I dont know the piece I will have to trust your interpretation, next student please!"


Once again, your "I once saw" shows a sample size of 1, on which you base a judgement. This is also untenable.

Forgive me for being a little harsh - but this thread is about a young entrant to the music profession. He is, perhaps naively, asking for advice on a forum which is largely populated by very well meaning amateurs. He needs to know (from all respondents) the amount of experience which they bring to their replies. It would be very damaging if he made a repertoire choice for his audition which was based on the preferences of a small number of music-lovers.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Johann Sebastian Bach said:


> If you say "there are as many who don't do a good job" you mean that 50% of music teachers do a good job and 50% don't. You admit you're not a musician, so I contend that your analysis must be based on a very small sample size - perhaps 10 or 20 teachers. That is statistically insignificant because there are thousands of music teachers in the UK alone, so your contention is flawed.
> 
> Once again, your "I once saw" shows a sample size of 1, on which you base a judgement. This is also untenable.
> 
> Forgive me for being a little harsh - but this thread is about a young entrant to the music profession. He is, perhaps naively, asking for advice on a forum which is largely populated by very well meaning amateurs. He needs to know (from all respondents) the amount of experience which they bring to their replies. It would be very damaging if he made a repertoire choice for his audition which was based on the preferences of a small number of music-lovers.


You dont know what my sample size is or precisely the extent of my experience.

What is your evidence for 98% - Figure cited by you earlier in this thread?

I refer to anecdotes not to establish any truth - just to suggest a possibility which the reader may take as they please. In any case I would wager that Sculthorpe is relatively little known even among the most distinguished panelists.


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

stomanek said:


> If you want to move to that level I would have to ask what is your evidence for 98% - Figure cited by you earlier in this thread?
> 
> I refer to anecdotes or admittedly limited experience not to establish any truth - just to suggest a possibility which the reader may take as they please.


I admit that my 98% figure may have a glossiness attached to it which might not stand up to scrutiny. I've dealt with hundreds (perhaps over a thousand) music teachers in my career and can only bring to mind a very small number of poor ones. It sounds as if you (or your son) has had a bad experience along the way. Don't let that lead you to suggest 50% of the profession is poor.

My second issue is with the way a young potential entrant to the profession may be swayed by advice on this forum. Your reply
_I refer to anecdotes or admittedly limited experience not to establish any truth - just to suggest a possibility which the reader may take as they please._ 
This adequately but belatedly qualifies your earlier statements which were made authoritatively and without equivocation. This subtle difference may be lost on the OP who might easily be swayed into a catastrophic repertoire choice on the basis of your advice which, as you've now acknowledged, is the opinion of one with limited experience.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Johann Sebastian Bach said:


> I admit that my 98% figure may have a glossiness attached to it which might not stand up to scrutiny. I've dealt with hundreds (perhaps over a thousand) music teachers in my career and can only bring to mind a very small number of poor ones. It sounds as if you (or your son) has had a bad experience along the way. Don't let that lead you to suggest 50% of the profession is poor.
> 
> My second issue is with the way a young potential entrant to the profession may be swayed by advice on this forum. Your reply
> _I refer to anecdotes or admittedly limited experience not to establish any truth - just to suggest a possibility which the reader may take as they please._
> This adequately but belatedly qualifies your earlier statements which were made authoritatively and without equivocation. This subtle difference may be lost on the OP who might easily be swayed into a catastrophic repertoire choice on the basis of your advice which, as you've now acknowledged, is the opinion of one with limited experience.


I didnt mean to suggest that 50% are poor - but I think there are more poor teachers than your estimate.

You approved of my suggestion earlier in this thread to replace one of the Liszt pieces with Bach. I based this on the number of times my son has had to audition in which I have been privvy to the rationale behind audition piece choice.

Anyway I do apreciate your comments especially as you are a professional musician and must surely have better things to do than bicker with amateurs on this forum.


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## musicadmit (Sep 13, 2016)

Burroughs said:


> I would like to know people's thoughts on this as an audition programme for the RCM
> 
> Liszt: Mazeppa
> Mozart: Rondo in A minor, K. 511
> Liszt: Un sospiro


Are you only applying to RCM this year?


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