# Ambient classical?



## Guest (Jul 14, 2019)

Is there such a thing?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

John Cage, I guess....


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I've managed not to hear a second of his works yet, but based on descriptions, would Einaudi fit the bill?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> I've managed not to hear a second of his works yet, but based on descriptions, would Einaudi fit the bill?


You've heeded the critics?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Einaudi isn't ambient music, at least I don't think it's intended as such. To me it doesn't work as ambient music either, because it's as annoying in the background as it is during active listening.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Brian Eno is to be credited for the term "ambient music," since in 1978 he founded Ambient Records, releasing several of his albums under that term. He called it that to elevate it (pardon the pun) above "elevator music" or Muzak®.

The difference being, Muzak®, by design, had been stripped of all interest. The music keeps you at a distance. It did not reward close listening; it was designed to be uninteresting.

Ambient music, was designed to allow you to keep your distance if you chose to, and keep doing whatever it was you were doing; or if you chose, you could listen to it and enter in to a calmness and non-frantic mood that the music might present.

One of the first Ambient releases was called "Discreet Music" and contained loops drawn from the recording of Pachabel's Canon by Jean-François Paillard, specifically this recording. So, there has always been a connection between classical music and Ambient music in this regard.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

MacLeod said:


> Is there such a thing?


The label Erased Tapes is a great place to start IMO. Maybe you don't consider electronics to remain in the classical spectrum but A Winged Victory For The Sullen tick all the boxes for me and it was my re-introduction to classical music when I was going through a hard time. Lubomyr Melnyk just plays a piano but his compositions could be quite eering. Maybe you like them.

But the rise of the Ambient movement surely takes part during the dawn of organic orchestral and instrumental playing, so it isn't an easy territory for 'purists'.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

When I was more into ambient music, a lot of people in the scene were into stuff like Max Richter and Olaffur Arnalds (sp?). Can’t remember what either sounds like. Maybe that might count.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I'd call Eno's Ambient 4: On Land a masterpiece, especially the final track.
Piano centered ambient albums The Plateaux of Mirror and The Pearl are up there as well.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

What about the Feldman second quartet?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> What about the Feldman second quartet?


You could argue the case for that, and it may work that way, but I think the intent was to engage in a kind of existential contemplation, like Buddhism without the joy. Or rather, an acceptance of the sounds for what they are. Even if engaged, I think the music is designed for a certain "non-commited" listening. Oh dear, this is beginning to describe Muzak®!


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> What about the Feldman second quartet?





millionrainbows said:


> You could argue the case for that, and it may work that way, but I think the intent was to engage in a kind of existential contemplation, like Buddhism without the joy. Or rather, an acceptance of the sounds for what they are. Even if engaged, I think the music is designed for a certain "non-commited" listening. Oh dear, this is beginning to describe Muzak®!


I don't listen to Feldman that often, and have never listened to the second quartet. But I find the piano and string quartet remarkable. I'll go with contemplation and Buddhism, without opining on the joy. When I'm prepped for listening to it, I can reach a point close to being perfectly in the moment (albeit, I've yet to remain there for 80 minutes). It's distinct from any other music I know.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Scelsi's orchestral works would be my first choice. And Norgard's 3rd symphony.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I remember once asking scarecrow (remember him Millionrainbows? ) what happened when you went to one of La Monte Young's happenings of The Well Tuned piano, he was part of that New York scene. I asked him whether you could just wonder in and out. He was horrified that I could even imagine that, he said that these performances were taken very seriously, that you were expected to sit there silently and rigidly for the duration like you would do for some Beethoven or something.

Anyway I'm listening to The Well Tuned Piano and if it's not ambiant the pope's not a Catholic.



jegreenwood said:


> I don't listen to Feldman that often, and have never listened to the second quartet. But I find the piano and string quartet remarkable.


Yes me too, but it's considerably shorter than the second quartet. There comes a point where for an audience of human beings, the length may just make it ambient, no one can concentrate for so long.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> You could argue the case for that, and it may work that way, but I think the intent was to engage in a kind of existential contemplation, like Buddhism without the joy. Or rather, an acceptance of the sounds for what they are. Even if engaged, I think the music is designed for a certain "non-commited" listening. Oh dear, this is beginning to describe Muzak®!


I can't resist telling you this, but I once did an assignment for Muzak, I was a management consultant and they were in a terrible state in the UK so they called us in.

What I remember most was the offices, it was full of kids with headphones listening to music all day and classifying it by various parameters so that you could decide what sort of commercial environment it would work in. The music was very often cheap cover versions.

It was like a vision of hell.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> . . .
> 
> Yes me too, but it's considerably shorter than the second quartet. There comes a point where for an audience of human beings, the length may just make it ambient, no one can concentrate for so long.


I'm going to see if it's on Tidal. Can't see myself buying it.

OTOH I do have For Christian Wolff - it was my first Feldman purchase; I have no recollection why I chose it. As a Beckett fan I should have picked up For Samuel Beckett. Anyway, Wolff is a relatively hefty 3:20. I suppose that is of sufficient length to reach a conclusion.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2019)

When I'm in the mood for ambient music (mainly in the car) I prefer non-classical variety.

One of my favourite groups for this kind of stuff is Tangerine Dream.

Examples

Album: Risky Business, Tracks: Love on a Real Tain, The Dream is always the same.
Album; Le Parc, Tracks: all

In the classical area, as already mentioned, Brian Eno's name is associated with this genre. I used to have "Discreet Music" but didn't like it and gave it away.

Another name is Einaudi. It's embarrassing that I have any of this stuff but someone bought me a CD one Xmas. I can't recall the name of it, as it's now buried somewhere in my garage, but it wasn't to my tastes. It sounds like quasi-classical ambient music. I guess it took me about 20 minutes to decide I didn't much care for it, but I suppose if I had persevered longer I might have liked it more.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> As a Beckett fan I should have picked up For Samuel Beckett.


For Samuel Becket is painfully bleak. Try the Beckett "opera", _Neither_


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## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

Charlemagne Palestine and Phil Niblock come to mind as ambient composers, though I don't know if they'd describe themselves that way.











Satie's notion of furniture music (Musique d'ameublement) is recognized as the origins of the idea, which was picked up on by John Cage in his "Vexations."


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> *For Samuel Becket is painfully bleak. *Try the Beckett "opera", _Neither_


Well that certainly fits.


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## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

"Neither" is bleaker than "For Samuel Beckett," I wouldn't recommend it as easy listening to someone who is depressed.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

DeepR said:


> John Cage, I guess....


You Mean 4'33" I guess you can't get anymore Ambient that that


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Wandelweiser composers (Antoine Beuger, Eva-Maria Houben, Michael Pisaro, et al.) compose music that I can see being described as ambient. The unique sounds they manage to conjure up never cease to impress me.


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## ECraigR (Jun 25, 2019)

DeepR said:


> Einaudi isn't ambient music, at least I don't think it's intended as such. To me it doesn't work as ambient music either, because it's as annoying in the background as it is during active listening.


I'll have to admit to not hating Einaudi. He's like classical lite, and is okay, for me, sometimes. I certainly wouldn't list him as a great composer or a favorite of mine, but I've been known to put him on occasionally. That being said, I don't think he'd be listed as an ambient composer if we're going by Brian Eno's definition. Of course, I don't know if we are, or if we should.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2019)

ECraigR said:


> I'll have to admit to not hating Einaudi. He's like classical lite, and is okay, for me, sometimes. I certainly wouldn't list him as a great composer or a favorite of mine, but I've been known to put him on occasionally. That being said, I don't think he'd be listed as an ambient composer if we're going by Brian Eno's definition. Of course, I don't know if we are, or if we should.


My reason for asking is that when I tried the latest Saturday Symphony (Dutilleux - whose work I've never listened to before) it caught me in the wrong mood. I wanted something orchestral but without the aggravation!

"Smooth Classics on Classic FM" - perhaps?

Maybe I need Einaudi? I've never listened to any of this either, but judging by the way it's disparaged here, it would be right up my street!

The irony of the term 'ambient' is that its originator produced work which can be used as ignorable background music, but is nevertheless paid close attention to by its adherents. There's a fine line between something with so little 'action' that it has no value and something that has just enough to pique the interest.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Some of Steve Roach' most minimal ambient efforts don't reward close attention and are specifically intended to be played in the background. To change the atmosphere of the environment, or something like that. So in that case you get exactly what was intended: "wallpaper" music. And that in itself can have value. 
I find it enjoyable sometimes to have minimal ambient music running in the background, while I'm working or doing other things. It can be preferable to silence, or natural background sounds. Obviously, it is also very preferable to a lot of non-background, obtrusive music you would hear on the radio....

Steve Roach - A Deeper Silence


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## ECraigR (Jun 25, 2019)

MacLeod said:


> My reason for asking is that when I tried the latest Saturday Symphony (Dutilleux - whose work I've never listened to before) it caught me in the wrong mood. I wanted something orchestral but without the aggravation!
> 
> "Smooth Classics on Classic FM" - perhaps?
> 
> ...


I think Einaudi has a pretty strong feel for melody, which probably instantly negates the possibility of his music being considered ambient classical.

It never hurts to give things a listen! Worst case scenario is you don't listen again!


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I think Arvo Part has some pieces that could be considered ambient.






John Adams also. Shaker Loops


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

I can propose a works of Bersarin Quartett, Tony Anderson, Sven Laux and Claire Fitch.
Some examples:


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

For years (at least in this country) a lot of what passes for daytime CM on classical radio is what passes for ambient music -- i.e. music to clean the house by. Has driven me crazy for 50 years.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Satie and Glass are what jumped immediately to mind (along with Einaudi and all the other “new age” and “classical crossover” guys) but I was also reminded of a piece by John Adams I heard recently - “The Dharma at Big Sur.” Seemed very ambient, meant to portray a background atmosphere more than anything. Not quite minimalism or “crossover", but not really what we’d consider mainstream classical either.


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## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

I believe that John Luther Adams’s «Become Ocean» fits the description «ambient classical» quite well.


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

I remembered yet album "The Wine of Silence" made by Robert Fripp, Andrew Keeling and David Singleton.
Track from the album





By the way, I would like to hear some late romantic, orchestral, extensive composition combined with synthesizer soundscape.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

All the selections posted here by Andante Largo are quintessential "ambient" music. And some nice selections. Thank you Andante.

V


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

The examples posted by Andante Largo sound too active and prominent, sometimes with a distinct melodic drive to it. It's "atmospheric music" but not necessarily very ambient in the strictest sense of the word.

I realize it's generally a very broad and diffuse genre, but "pure" ambient music is really music about nothing, or anything you want it to be. It just sort of hangs in the air, without any sense of direction or drive to it. It's textural music, sound art. The very opposite of all the regular, normal, "intrusive" music that demands your attention with its distinct patterns and melodic and rhythmic drive.

Here's what I think is a very fine example in the spirit of Brian Eno's ambient music, as posted in the non-classical forums.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2020)

Prompted by a more recent question from RogerWaters, I returned to this thread (missed some of the later contributions - thanks to all who replied).

But my OP question was not quite answered.

"Ambient classical - Is there such a thing?"

I might infer that there isn't. A number of the suggestions were definitely ambient - but were they classical?


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Definitely check out Stuart Dempster (trombonist), don't think he's been mentioned.

Ambient as a music "to dwell in" definitely exists within classical, but mostly hidden in its remote branches, such as minimalism, atonality etc. Elements of ambient could be found in more "mainstream" classical as well (Wagner in Das Rheingold, Puccini in Il Tabarro, more contemporary Hovhaness, Pärt, Adams).


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

P.S. I can find future elements of electronic ambient even in such works as Meyerbeer's Les Huguenots - the famous Blessing of Swords scene finishes with long pedal point held in low strings and timpanies which goes "against" the fading music and sets the "impending doom" atmosphere which also matches the definition of ambient. This is how "drone" works.

Rather, I should have said, electronic ambient music is deeply indebted to classical music.


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