# Tom Waits VS Leonard Cohen



## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

There, knock yourself out!


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

I have just voted, but I am not telling you who I voted for!

There, you got it!


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Tom Waits though I am a big fan of both.


If you add Nick Cave (as he gets compared to them a lot too) I'd choose him. I don't think he's better but I listen to his music more.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Tommy every day of the week even if I don't feel that these compare even remotely!

/ptr


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2014)

Tom Waits. Because he can also act !!!


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Don't really like either of their voices. But I do like Cohen's _Hallelujah_ when sung by Jeff Buckley. I also like Waits' _Old 55_ when sung by the Eagles *hides from haters*


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

TalkingHead said:


> Tom Waits. Because he can also act !!!


Oh yeah! He's also big in Japan!


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Winterreisender said:


> Don't really like either of their voices. But I do like Cohen's _Hallelujah_ when sung by Jeff Buckley. I also like Waits' _Old 55_ when sung by the Eagles *hides from haters*


Voices? But Tom Waits is also like a super-musician!


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

I find Leonard Cohen boring. He sounds so much like a philosopher and poet, and not a musician. Tom Waits is more interesting.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Suzanne is a very pretty song. Cohen's soundtrack for McCabe & Mrs Miller is perfect. 

Voted Waits.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2014)

In before that one guy tells y'all the objective truth.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Cohen, less of an act, less phony.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Where's the magic, you ask? It's in the hand, as always! Just try to follow...


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Perfect music to listen to while drinking.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captain Beefheart


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Serge said:


> Where's the magic, you ask? It's in the hand, as always! Just try to follow...


I often hear about Waits, but his music has never struck a chord with me. Yet many people whose opinions I respect seem to like him so I feel there must be _something_ there so I keep trying as I did with the above link, and what a grating horrible voice I found there. In that clip I found him too annoying to listen to after a minute or so.

I vote Leonard Cohen.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Alpha hyper male American Waits vs. less than beta eunuch Canadian Cohen?

Waits, takes Cohen, TKO within the first 7 seconds of the first round.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Beatnik-era Tom vs. Beefheart-era Tom might be a livelier debate.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Ok, I'll read what others have said and take that into consideration, but before I do so, here is my considered opinion:

In general, Cohen is the better lyricist and many of his albums are better than most of Waits'.

However, Tom Waits' _Closing Time_ and _Rain Dogs_ are better than any of Cohen's. _Closing Time_ in particular would be on my personal short list for greatest albums of all time.

(I'm biased there because on _Closing Time_ Waits sounds exactly like an uncle of mine that I respected and admired so much. He was a great man, and the world is a much lesser place without him. But even without that bit of sentimentality, I would like that album very much.)


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I meant to add, Waits is the better - as in more creative - musician.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

science said:


> I meant to add, Waits is the better - as in more creative - musician.


I hasten to agree. I think the music is far more interesting, and Waits' powers of communication as both musician and singing performer have such an immediacy and directness that on all fronts he leaves Cohen far outside the running to even begin to compare.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Would it kill Waits to develop his ideas though? The repetition in his music is maddening.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Would it kill Waits to develop his ideas though? The repetition in his music is maddening.


Compared to the endless drone repeat or unaltered chorus / verse, or near monotonal melodic lines as favored by Cohen?

One way or t'other, we're talking pop music based on the tradition of folk formats, not a through-composed Schubert song. The pop format easy and repeat is so the listener can memorize and replicate that song after one listening. Go much further, and you are in a very different arena of music as readily transmitted and as readily disseminated.

You want more musical variety within a song, look, for example, to Rufus Wainwright.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Vote of no confidence in either as musicians but Cohen seems a funnier and more interesting person. In one of the great moments of my life, my small son in an outraged voice, shouted in a busy cafe "Is this a joke?! This is the worst music ever!" It was Tom Waits


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Compared to the endless drone repeat or unaltered chorus / verse, or near monotonal melodic lines as favored by Cohen?
> 
> One way or t'other, we're talking pop music based on the tradition of folk formats, not a through-composed Schubert song. The pop format easy and repeat is so the listener can memorize and replicate that song after one listening. Go much further, and you are in a very different arena of music as readily transmitted and as readily disseminated.
> 
> You want more musical variety within a song, look, for example, to Rufus Wainwright.


Not a fan of old Rufus. I find Serge Gainsbourg a tad more interesting.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Cohen's delivery is smooth, surreal and dream like. Its comforting. He has a certain wisdom he emanates and a classy restrained style. Waits has much humor and wit but comes across as more of a brash cynic, one who is criticizing, ridiculing, and pessimistic. I find Waits attitude and approach fairly toxic and unproductive, he is contrary just to be "cool" and rebellious.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

tdc said:


> Cohen's delivery is smooth, surreal and dream like. Its comforting. He has a certain wisdom he emanates and a classy restrained style. Waits has much humor and wit but comes across as more of a brash cynic, one who is criticizing, ridiculing, and pessimistic. I find Waits attitude and approach fairly toxic and unproductive, he is contrary just to be "cool" and rebellious.


I appreciate Wait's ambition but I prefer music by the musicians he apes: Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Not a fan of old Rufus. I find Serge Gainsbourg a tad more interesting.


I will bow out here, following so little as to be next to nothing of pop music in general.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

PetrB said:


> I will bow out here, following so little as to be next to nothing of pop music in general.


Just as well. You're not missing much.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

tdc said:


> Cohen's delivery is smooth, surreal and dream like. Its comforting. He has a certain wisdom he emanates and a classy restrained style. Waits has much humor and wit but comes across as more of a brash cynic, one who is criticizing, ridiculing, and pessimistic. I find Waits attitude and approach fairly toxic and unproductive, he is contrary just to be "cool" and rebellious.


Waits certainly has some pessimistic songs, but he has a lot of sincere ones too, a lot of great love ballads, for instance. There are tons of pop/rock stars who try to be "cool," he doesn't seem like one of them. He's never really been of his own time.

Cohen is sometimes comforting, sometimes not. Is "The Future" comforting and classy? (It is a great song, IMO).


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

GreenMamba said:


> Cohen is sometimes comforting, sometimes not. Is "The Future" comforting and classy? (It is a great song, IMO).


I'd say that also his most famous album, Songs of love and hate is anything but comforting


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

norman bates said:


> I'd say that also his most famous album, Songs of love and hate is anything but comforting


If only Yupanqui was as revered as these two knuckleheads.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> If only Yupanqui was as revered as these two knuckleheads.


Yupanqui is absolutely amazing and I like him more than them, he certainly deserves to be more well known. But I really like also Waits and Cohen. Waits has one of the most incredible voices I've ever heard and I like how he transforms the most disparate folk materials using modern elements (Marc Ribot is a great guitarist), he's not a great composer but a very creative arranger, and in Cohen I like his ability in conveying emotion with few chords on an acoustic guitar and his limited voice.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

@ Greenmamba and norman bates 

I meant the tone of Cohen's voice is soothing. I agree the material can at times be disturbing, but even through this disturbing material, I think he has a classy way of delivering it.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> There are tons of pop/rock stars who try to be "cool," he doesn't seem like one of them. He's never really been of his own time.


I agree with point one, but Waits "not being of his own time" is exactly his schtick I think. He is deliberately contrary to fads, because ultimately that is what is perceived as "coolest". Waits isn't trying to appeal to the little kiddies, but to the hipsters.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

"Cool" is such a slippery and elusive term with different meanings and connotations. I think in the end it comes down to being genuine or being a poser. At times posers are held up as the "coolest" by many, in popular culture we like to later expose and strip individuals of that title, especially if they get really popular with a mainstream audience - which is why many avoid that kind of success. In the end I think if a person is being genuine that can't be taken away from them.

Maybe Waits _is_ genuine I don't know. I'm not expressing my opinion as a matter of fact, simply expressing how Waits comes across to me.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

I love them both. I believe Cohen is more of a poet than Waits, but I think Waits has more range. Waits often sets a scene in his songs. Often I think of a smoke filled gin mill with a guy on stage singing old jazz with his trio behind him.

I think it was Rolling Stone magazine that described Tom Waits voice something like this: If you took a set of vocal chords, soaked them in whiskey, smoked and aged them, then dragged them through a mile of gravel, you would have Tom Waits voice.

I kinda dig it, but then again, I'm the only one I know who likes Bob Dylan's voice more now, than when he was younger. Same goes for Cohen.

I think one of the most interesting things about Waits is that he has had more hits by OTHER artists singing his stuff than he himself.

V


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Have a listen to Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf. You'll forget all about Waits.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Have a listen to Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf. You'll forget all about Waits.


Thanks, I will check them both out, and report back.

V


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Have a listen to Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf. You'll forget all about Waits.


Can you suggest one or two albums for each of them I should start out with? Thx

V


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Varick said:


> Can you suggest one or two albums for each of them I should start out with? Thx
> 
> V


*Howlin' Wolf: (1997) His Best
Captain Beefheart: (1969) Trout Mask Replica*

* You'll find plenty on youtube.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Can't believe Tom Waits is winning this one, with his fake German accent, his theatrical bean cans and eating soup with a beggarmen's fork. I like some of his stuff, but it's so corny and contrived. The album _Alice_, is my favourite.

Ole Lenny? Now, he's class, a country league ahead of blokes like Tom Waits...


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> *Howlin' Wolf: (1997) His Best
> Captain Beefheart: (1969) Trout Mask Replica*
> 
> * You'll find plenty on youtube.


I'd add Beefheart's often overlooked _Doc at the Radar Station_ to that.


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