# Musical singing vs. Opera Singing



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am on a musicals kick lately and some of my favorite singers, such as Howard Keel and Jane Powell, sing in voices that can be indistinguishable from operatic singing to my listening. They have supported sounding voices with the different part of the voices blended and ample top notes. I just watched Deep in My Heart about an early musical composer and much of the music was like this. This was the movie where Helen Traubel had a big role and sang appropriately for ever song but with absolutely perfect technique. Was it when musicals became amplified that the sound of the singing changed? All of these movies I'm watching were early 50's before amplification hit the theaters. Of course Merman wasn't an operatic sound but she could be heard over a Wagnerian orchestra.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones are my favorites in the movie versions of the musicals (Rodgers and Hammerstein). 
Some of the R&H musicals that made it to film are: *Carousel, Oklahoma, South Pacific*, *The King and I, The Sound of Music, etc.*


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I also love Lerner and Lowe, whose hits were *Camelot *and *My Fair Lady*, among others.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

*Howard Keel and Jane Powell
Helen Traubel
Ethel Merman

Carousel, Oklahoma, South Pacific*, *The King and I, The Sound of Music
Camelot and My Fair Lady*

Yep. The singers and musicals you've mentioned are all from the *"Golden Age"* of Musicals. All the Musicals mentioned were on stage prior to being adapted to the Big Screen. 

And it WAS amplification that changed all that, but not directly. Popular music was affected first, and it went hand in hand with the change of accompaniment from acoustic to electric instruments. STRANGELY ENOUGH, I can still picture Rudy ValIée singing with a megaphone (that was the 1920s, wasn't it?), which increased the volume of his voice. As the use of microphones increased, it meant that the backing bands (like big bands of the 1930s and 1940s) could be louder and more exciting, rather than having to play quietly as to not drown out the singer. 

Compositional and singing styles changed as voices were no longer required to "project" to be heard, whether it was popular music, and shortly thereafter, the musical stage.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am on a musicals kick lately and some of my favorite singers, such as Howard Keel and Jane Powell, sing in voices that can be indistinguishable from operatic singing to my listening. They have supported sounding voices with the different part of the voices blended and ample top notes. I just watched Deep in My Heart about an early musical composer and much of the music was like this. This was the movie where Helen Traubel had a big role and sang appropriately for ever song but with absolutely perfect technique. Was it when musicals became amplified that the sound of the singing changed? All of these movies I'm watching were early 50's before amplification hit the theaters. Of course Merman wasn't an operatic sound but she could be heard over a Wagnerian orchestra.


I've been a fan of Jane Powell for awhile (she sang a bit of opera if I'm not mistaken)


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Back during the 1930s-1950s, it was normal for movie actresses to have close-to-operatic technique. For example, this singing easily surpasses almost any opera singer on the modern stage. When singing was supposed to sound _natural _rather than vasalva, nasal or ingolata.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I've been a fan of Jane Powell for awhile (she sang a bit of opera if I'm not mistaken)


Wikipedia doesn't mention this. It sadly mentioned she was sexually abused as a teen by tenants in her building but kept the fact from her alcoholic mother. Sometimes a youth like that can give you drive to make your life better. She may not have sung opera, but her technique sure sounded like she had it in her background.... and not the type sung today.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Powell sang several opera arias in MGM films as part of the film’s plot. Donizetti, Delibes, Puccini, and others.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Back during the 1930s-1950s, it was normal for movie actresses to have close-to-operatic technique. For example, this singing easily surpasses almost any opera singer on the modern stage. When singing was supposed to sound _natural _rather than vasalva, nasal or ingolata.


And let's not fail to note that every word can be heard.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Powell sang several opera arias in MGM films as part of the film’s plot. Donizetti, Delibes, Puccini, and others.
> [/QUOT


It sounds like fiction. How could that have ever happened!!!!!!!! Today is so different.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Unfortunately, she, Deanna Durbin, and Kathryn Grayson have that high squeaky voice that gives me a pain in the ears despite how well they sing.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Back during the 1930s-1950s, it was normal for movie actresses to have close-to-operatic technique. For example, this singing easily surpasses almost any opera singer on the modern stage. When singing was supposed to sound _natural _rather than vasalva, nasal or ingolata.



*Deanna Durbin* and *Judy Garland* were young singers in film around the same time. The studios portrayed it as somewhat of a rivalry, mostly because it generated free publicity for both stars. 

Here's Durbin's film debut in 1936, with Judy Garland. Durbin duets with Garland around 2:46.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It sounds like fiction. How could that have ever happened!!!!!!!! Today is so different.















Je Veux Vivre (Gounod)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Here’s another aria, less well known - she also did Musetta’s Waltz.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Unfortunately, she, Deanna Durbin, and Kathryn Grayson have that high squeaky voice that gives me a pain in the ears despite how well they sing.



.............................


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