# Rush is to English canadians the same as U2 for irish insult Rush at ur own risk?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Let's face it, Rush is big in Canada for English Canadian we quebecer can't stand the singer androgyneous attrocious voice, but please dont tell them I said that, It's a secret between you and me and millions of Talk Classical viewers to my post.

The band would be better of whiteout the singer, but please dont tell english canuck I said that.

I got into trouble once whit Irish saying U2 was a crappy band now, that I preffer The chameleon U.K in post-punk|pop-rock.

U2 in the 80'' past the test still good now the band would be better off whiteout Bono annoying voice and personality.

 :tiphat:

p.s please Canadians my fellows' brothers & sisters of anglosphere dont take it personally?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I was a big Rush fan in my late teens and twenties but went off them about 1982 when they streamlined their sound too much for my liking. I can still listen to their first eight albums for their musical content but I admit that Geddy Lee's voice seems a bit too shrill for me now.

Even allowing for Bono's tiresome messiah complex and relentless virtue-signalling U2 are a group I've never been able to stomach - for one thing guitarist Edge has built his whole career by ripping off Keith Levene's style since day one yet people gab their gums over how great and unique he's supposed to be.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

U2 is hugely popular but I've never been much of a minimalist. I enjoyed the musicianship of Rush. Not to say that U2 don't display good musicianship but their style doesn't keep me too interested. I enjoy the humorous comments from Deprofundis! I can hear the insults now from those rude citizens of Quebec!

How about Bruce Cockburn, DePro? He even sings at least one song in French on most of his albums. Maybe not your style of music? I love his stuff and I have about 20 albums. As for Rush I feel like they grew stale by the mid 80s. Geddy is okay on the early records but I can't bear to listen to him strain during those live performances.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I like Rush in all of their manifestations through _Presto_, and Geddy Lee's voice, while "unusual", works well for me, as he can sound quite convincingly earnest and heartfelt in songs like Time Stand Still and several of the songs from _Grace Under Pressure_. Besides, one gets used to anyone's voice in popular music, if one likes the package. The voice becomes the signature guaranteeing the authenticity of the experience. We've had these Wretched Voice threads before, and singer-songwriters with wretched voices tend to be the ones best remembered and also covered with such honors as are accorded to the enduring popular musician.

No straining here:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

If you watch some of Rush's live concerts on YouTube you'll notice that they do instrumental medleys of a bunch of their "classic" tunes. This gives the Gedster's aging vocal chords a rest. The best part of the show for me. Their songs from the last 30 years sound like uninspired retreads with weaker melodies.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

elgars ghost said:


> I was a big Rush fan in my late teens and twenties but went off them about 1982 when they streamlined their sound too much for my liking. I can still listen to their first eight albums for their musical content but I admit that Geddy Lee's voice seems a bit too shrill for me now.
> 
> Even allowing for Bono's tiresome messiah complex and relentless virtue-signalling U2 are a group I've never been able to stomach - for one thing guitarist Edge has built his whole career by ripping off Keith Levene's style since day one yet people gab their gums over how great and unique he's supposed to be.


Totally agree on all of this, EG. Couldnt have put it better myself. After Moving Pictures it all started going rapidly downhill for me. Luckily i saw them on the Hemispheres tour when they were arguably at the top of their game. It was a freebie too (I won tickets on Pete Baker's Piccadilly Radio Rock Relay programme). Our kid was gutted cos my tickets were near the front and he had bought tickets for the back of the stalls. I also won a signed copy of Archives which i gave to my bro. Hes still got it.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

2112 thru Signals are the albums I enjoyed years ago. But mostly it was Hemispheres, and Farewell To Kings in my high school days when these albums were new.


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## Hiawatha (Mar 13, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Let's face it, Rush is big in Canada for English Canadian we quebecer can't stand the singer androgyneous attrocious voice, but please dont tell them I said that, It's a secret between you and me and millions of Talk Classical viewers to my post.
> 
> The band would be better of whiteout the singer, but please dont tell english canuck I said that.
> 
> ...


The Spirit of Radio was possibly THE song on the turntable in my English in England lower sixth form common room. It was extremely popular.

Not that it was me who brought it in..........!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Some of the above critiques of Rush make me glad I myself never "matured". I only got older.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

So is Cryptopsy more popular than Rush in Montreal?


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Bwv 1080 said:


> So is Cryptopsy more popular than Rush in Montreal?


Well, I guess not my friend


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

I am Canadian and a boner-fida PROGMASTERMAN so you can take it with utter conviction when I say the VAST majority of 70s/80s/90s Canadian lp release ....was pure rubbish. (Beyond 90's, I don't even want to conjecture.)

Worse yet, when it comes to prog - with the exception of Quebec (which was rather brilliant) - Canada was almost totally disregardfull of the Godlike PROG.
This means that Canada should be frikken ASHAMED OF ITSELF. That a country the size and population of Canada should release SO LITTLE MEANINGFUL pop/rock music....is a tragedy and atrocity. That small countries like Belgium & Denmark released more music of import is....well what can I say. Its unexcusable. Canada culture - with exception of Quebec - just plain sucks cob.



So now we come to this outrage known as Rush:

Sure, I agree, they are very talented musicians.And they DID lay down one or two good tracks - say "Working Man" or "The Big Money".
But, for all their skill, WHAT IS IT THEY ACTALLY PRODUCED? Second tier arena rock.Their composition was clearly geared to the ******* GOY - the Moxy, April Wine ad nauseum crowd.

Some call Rush a prog band. When truth is that, out of their vast (******) output, only two lps can be considered prog.

No matter......



Now as proof of the consummate shittiness which Rush fans craved and supported, here I give you this incontrovertible fact:

what was Rush's biggest-selling single?

Answer , the specifically dumbed-down "composition", "Take Off".


"Take Off" was Bob & Doug Mckenzie (comedians Rick Moranis & ....err.... Dave wotshisname) with Geddy Lee - sounding just like your average Rush PAP.

This track is not to be found on a Rush lp, but appears on the comedy record, Bob & Doug McKenzie Great White North. It is a dumb-*** NOVELTY record.


Yes.
When it comes to musical culture, Canadians are a disgrace.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^If you say so, Deacon.....

However, my own personal debt to Canada extends certainly to its generations of artists and groups who have nourished my personal aesthetic for a near-lifetime. Let's just list Ian & Sylvia, Gordon Lightfoot, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Guess Who, Rush, Alanis Morissette, Sarah McLachlan, Céline Dion......probably forgetting several important others. I have a strong feeling that I and millions prefer their combined music to, well, any counter-list The Deacon might supply.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

So we want to criticize Rush for commerical success in the 80s and still put Genesis on the top of the prog pyramid?

And Canada’s population is about equal to Scandinavia or Texas, so it’s contributing at or above it’s weight

Unless you want to talk about food, which as far as I can tell, Canada’s culinary contributors consists of a chain of donut stores and gravy covered French fries


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

My weinerdog contends that Rush was the delight of boisterous, chanting arena-goys/yahoos.


.....


And Canada's (2018) population was 37 million, Denmark (2019), 5 million. (Sweden a bit more.)



Do NOT second-guess a PROGMASTERMAN.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

In my opinion the fact that Canada hasn't contributed much to progressive rock should be considered a badge of honour rather than a blot on the copybook - as I recall, two Canadian bands who seemed to pander to proggish elements were Saga and Max Webster and both were a waste of my time.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

A somewhat humorous thread turned into a prog nerd fest.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I'm happy to listen to any Rush album from "Fly By Night" through to "Moving Pictures". The first album is a sort of sub-sub Led Zeppelin that I can live without (I guess they hadn't really found their sound yet) and the albums after "Moving Pictures" were a bit too synth-heavy for my taste. 

That said, I saw them in London about 15 years ago and they were awesome, played a three hour set without a break. Considering they were all around 50 years old at that point I remember thinking that their stamina would put many younger bands to shame...


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I've always really enjoyed Rush while still ranking them a smidge behind the other major 70s prog bands. While their 2112-Moving Pictures run was their best, I also enjoy a good chunk of their 80s output (especially Power Windows) and some of their post-90s output ( their last album was their best in 25 years). My one knock against them is that, unlike Yes, Genesis, Crimson and Tull, I don't think they ever produced that one, towering, mind-blowing masterpiece. I'd even argue that Dream Theater has (slightly) overtaken them as the better band.

U2 I can enjoy in small doses, but so much of their discography is just dull and uninspired. Even take their "masterpiece" The Joshua Tree: the singles are great, but once you get past the first four tracks, the second half is a cure for insomnia. There were so many better post-punk bands, and I don't quite understand why they became the breakout band.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Voivod is Canadian, they are a bit wild


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Voivod is Canadian, they are a bit wild


There album Astronomy (something-something) have you heard it, my friend, they play If I'm correct a King Crimson cover what an awesome band, and there one of the founder of industrial metal + speed mix, the album whit song tribal conviction on of our there best album for sure my dear friend


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Dream Theater is just Europe with wankier guitar solos

Moving Pictures is a masterpiece, on par with anything by any other prog band


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

My new favorite black metal band (or my favorite new black metal band) is Canadian


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Dream Theater is just Europe with wankier guitar solos
> 
> Moving Pictures is a masterpiece, on par with anything by any other prog band


1. Not even close.

1. First half is great, second half can't sustain it, though it's not terrible by any means. No competition for Selling England by the Pound, Close to the Edge, Thick as a Brick, or In the Court....


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Close to the Edge (the song) is a pretentious mess (You and I is great, though) as is all of prog Genesis

Thick as a Brick is great, but great because Ian Anderson did not take the whole prog thing as serious as Yes or Genesis

and dream theater is so so so bland, their virtuosity just makes the songs even worse, they might sound better if played by some garage band


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Close to the Edge (the song) is a pretentious mess (You and I is great, though) as is all of prog Genesis
> 
> Thick as a Brick is great, but great because Ian Anderson did not take the whole prog thing as serious as Yes or Genesis
> 
> and dream theater is so so so bland, their virtuosity just makes the songs even worse, they might sound better if played by some garage band


I generally don't jive with people who use "pretentious" as a negative criticism of art without any argument backing it up. Needless to say I strongly disagree. Selling England is one of the lightest, catchiest, most whimsical, prog albums ever: what pretension? Anderson had a sense of humor, but I don't think that means he didn't take the music dead serious. Album-length conceptual tracks aren't the stuff of jokes.

Dream Theater are so much more than their virtuosity. They've written tons of songs that, had you heard them without knowing the band, you never would've suspected their technical talent; and they are very capable of using those talents when necessary to suit the songs perfectly. Yes, they can get wanky at times, but so can most prog bands, and many of their technical showcases are still really fun; it just depends on the song.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bwv 1080 said:


> My new favorite black metal band (or my favorite new black metal band) is Canadian


Interesting... more a black/death/prog mix I'd say. Those dissonances around the 1:20 mark have a strong Ulcerate vibe to them.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Interesting... more a black/death/prog mix I'd say. Those dissonances around the 1:20 mark have a strong Ulcerate vibe to them.


Not familiar with Ulcerate, I had thought Blut Aus Nord


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Devin Townsend is a prog type of guy! Panzerfaust sounded modern


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Not familiar with Ulcerate, I had thought Blut Aus Nord


Haven't heard Blut Aus Nord myself but they've been on my radar for a while. Ulcerate are one of few interesting new death metal bands I've heard. Think a mix of Gorguts and Immolation but with an almost perpetual use of dense dissonance. Everything is Fire is probably their best:





I will say their songs run together for me, but I find their sound perversely fascinating.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Cool, I think Godflesh is the common thread with Blut Aus Nord


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> In my opinion the fact that Canada hasn't contributed much to progressive rock should be considered a badge of honour rather than a blot on the copybook - as I recall, two Canadian bands who seemed to pander to proggish elements were Saga and Max Webster and both were a waste of my time.


HaHa!
As I recall....you know nuffink of Canadian prog.

Saga were limp pop"prog" that went down well amongst the Euromens.

Max Webster never were prog - well maybe one or two tracks on side 0ne of "Million Vacations".


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> I was a big Rush fan in my late teens and twenties but went off them about 1982 when they streamlined their sound too much for my liking. I can still listen to their first eight albums for their musical content but I admit that Geddy Lee's voice seems a bit too shrill for me now.
> 
> Even allowing for Bono's tiresome messiah complex and relentless virtue-signalling U2 are a group I've never been able to stomach - for one thing guitarist Edge has built his whole career by ripping off Keith Levene's style since day one yet people gab their gums over how great and unique he's supposed to be.


Interesting, I've never heard that before. I don't listen to a lot of The Clash, are there any particular tracks where you think the sound later used by the Edge is particularly apparent?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I do like the Edge's approach to guitar, and I think Bono has a gift for melody. I really like some U2 especially Achtung Baby. U2 post 90's doesn't really interest me though. 

It makes sense Rush is not really considered pure Prog, that would explain why I like them more than most Prog bands I can think of, with the possible exception of The Mars Volta. I don't really care for Prog in general though, it often strikes me as too concerned with technicality, and not a lot of 'feel' in the music.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

tdc said:


> Interesting, I've never heard that before. I don't listen to a lot of The Clash, are there any particular tracks where you think the sound later used by the Edge is particularly apparent?


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2019)

Skinny Puppy and Frontline Assembly are the best Canadian bands. End of discussion.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Has anyone really insulted Rush yet? :devil:


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2019)

I have never paid enough attention to Rush to have enough to say to insult them. I had a roommate in college who was a Rush fanatic, but luckily he had really good headphones. Can't stand the singer's voice, and don't care for prog. I do understand, though, that Les Claypool is a huge fan of Geddy's bass playing.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Wittgenstein died twenty years before the advent of a particular genre of rock music that was labelled Prog shortly thereafter. But his definition is certainly applicable today.

*Wittgenstein explains that the meaning of a word may not depend upon whether the word refers to something that actually exists. For example, if something ceases to exist, the word or name for that thing may still have meaning. If we say that the name for something exists, we may affirm that the name has meaning, even though the name may refer to something which no longer exists.*


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Jaysus Cornhole!

starthrower: would you not agree that old Witty gets off on stating the _BLEEDING OBVIOUS_?


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Has anyone really insulted Rush yet? :devil:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Bwv 1080 said:


>


Ok, granted there is a little bit of similarity there, but is it more than what we could find between any major musician, and those that influenced them? Bach sounds a little bit like Buxtehude sometimes, but he took the sound to new heights, Beethoven sounds a little bit like Haydn sometimes, but he built on that sound etc.

The Edge's sound is characterized by a lot more than what one hears in that clip, his use of reverb/delay/echo is much more pronounced. He has a wide array of sound effects he uses, none of which I hear in that clip. He used wah wah peddle and slide guitar in minimalistic ways to create eerie effects, and layers of sound, I don't hear any of that in the above clip. If you put any musician under a microscope you are going to find some sounds that had an influence, (on that note I think Johnny Marr of The Smith's guitar sound likely had some influence as well) but what is more important is whether the musician in question took those influences and did something new with them, by using them as a foundation to grow and create something of their own, and I think clearly the Edge did that.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

The closest thing Canada has to U2 is Arcade Fire. Both bands are fond of grand, tacky gestures and both are terrible.

Rush is ... not great.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

tdc said:


> Ok, granted there is a little bit of similarity there, but is it more than what we could find between any major musician, and those that influenced them? Bach sounds a little bit like Buxtehude sometimes, but he took the sound to new heights, Beethoven sounds a little bit like Haydn sometimes, but he built on that sound etc.
> 
> The Edge's sound is characterized by a lot more than what one hears in that clip, his use of reverb/delay/echo is much more pronounced. He has a wide array of sound effects he uses, none of which I hear in that clip. He used wah wah peddle and slide guitar in minimalistic ways to create eerie effects, and layers of sound, I don't hear any of that in the above clip. If you put any musician under a microscope you are going to find some sounds that had an influence, (on that note I think Johnny Marr of The Smith's guitar sound likely had some influence as well) but what is more important is whether the musician in question took those influences and did something new with them, by using them as a foundation to grow and create something of their own, and I think clearly the Edge did that.


Yes, that is a fair statement


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

tdc said:


> I do like the Edge's approach to guitar, and I think Bono has a gift for melody. I really like some U2 especially Achtung Baby. U2 post 90's doesn't really interest me though.
> 
> It makes sense Rush is not really considered pure Prog, that would explain why I like them more than most Prog bands I can think of, with the possible exception of The Mars Volta. I don't really care for Prog in general though, it often strikes me as too concerned with technicality, and not a lot of 'feel' in the music.


I'd add _Rattle and Hum_ to the list of best U2 albums, but, like some other bands, including Rush, rather than one great blockbuster album, U2--along with R.E.M., John Mellencamp, others--seeds one or two or three really good songs into each of their seemingly endless strings of albums. That's why one creates one's own "best of" tapes or CDs or whatever.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2019)

I liked earlier U2 - up until Achtung Baby. Nothing they have done since interests me in the least. Rattle and Hum always felt like a vanity project - at least until that fiasco of pushing the free album on everybody with iTunes. But it had a few high points - ignoring their bizarre and poorly executed covers of the Beatles and Hendrix/Dylan.

I don't think I could name a single song by Rush beyond "Tom Sawyer."


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> In my opinion the fact that Canada hasn't contributed much to progressive rock should be considered a badge of honour rather than a blot on the copybook - as I recall, two Canadian bands who seemed to pander to proggish elements were Saga and Max Webster and both were a waste of my time.


Well then be prepared to be disappointed.

In the 70's, Quebec alone produced some world class prog. Not watered down bands with proggish elements, but pure, unadulterated prog.



Bwv 1080 said:


> Dream Theater is just Europe with wankier guitar solos
> 
> Moving Pictures is a masterpiece, on par with anything by any other prog band


I am far from a Dream Theater fan (I had a quick fling with them about 10 years ago), but your assessment of them is just plain wrong. They play some ridiculously complex music, with world class musicianship by all members. Rush's musicianship is not close, even the much lauded Peart. *IMO*.

And no, nothing Rush has done, is in the same ballpark as 'any other prog band'. *IMO*.

Rush (even at their most proggy) sound like boys among men when compared to: Magma, Univers Zero, National Health, PFM, Banco, Thinking Plague, Echolyn, Anglagard, Gentle Giant, UK, and countless others. *IMO*/

Great bands from Quebec:

Miriodor - avant-prog, that doesn't take itself too seriously.
Pollen - some of the most beautiful prog from ANY country.
Slosche - world class prog-fusion, with some Gentle Giant, Return to Forever, Canturbery influences, and a bit of funk. Incredible musicianship.
Maneige - folk, classical and jazz elements very well integrated.Loaded with beautiful soft passages. 
Et Cetera - Some obvious Gentle Giant influences with their own interpretation.
Harmonium - folky prog. 
Aquarelle - prog-fusion with great wordless female vocals.
Spaced Out - heavy prog-fusion with one of the best bass players in fusion, Antoine Farfad.
Hamadryad - newer prog band who straddles the line between prog and prog metal.
Nathan Mahl - Great prog-fusion started in the 90's. Sadly, keyboardist Guy Leblanc (he also played with Camel for a while) lost the battle with cancer about 10 years ago.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

> Rush's musicianship is not close, even the much lauded Peart. IMO.


Nobody cares, Rush has songs with melodies. Miriodor couldn't write a song if their lives depended on it.
Chamber rock doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather listen to classical music. If I want songs I'll listen to Yes, Genesis, Rush, etc...


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

It is "Sloche" ,Simon. And, yes, they were great. (I have one of the two releases as a trade copy.)


.......

Deacon Beaker just lurvs organ prog. Hate to say it, but the wonderful "Heretic" trilogy by Nathan Mahl is approaching organ overkill. Too much to take in on a single prolonged listen.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Not a fan of Canadian rockers except for Neil Young and the recent Mother Mother. Absolutely hate Arcade Fire.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Not a fan of Canadian rockers except for Neil Young and the recent Mother Mother. Absolutely hate Arcade Fire.


I love Neil Young ''La Noise'' It's a brilliant album whit song s like like Hitchicker, angry world, etc great great album greatest Canadian rocker ever,!!!


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

tdc said:


> It makes sense Rush is not really considered pure Prog, that would explain why I like them more than most Prog bands I can think of, with the possible exception of The Mars Volta. I don't really care for Prog in general though, it often strikes me as too concerned with technicality, and not a lot of 'feel' in the music.


I'm not sure who doesn't consider Rush "pure" prog (whatever "pure" is supposed to mean). While they may have had a more solid blues/rock foundation than their prog contemporaries, the technical complexity and compositional/lyrical ambition with up there with any "pure" prog bands. The thing that made Rush different is that, as proggy as they got, you could always hear the influence from Cream and Zeppelin, which are two bands that they idolized early on. That blues/rock foundation is less detectable in Yes, Tull, Crimson, and Genesis; but even those bands sounded quite distinct from each other because they were drawing from different influences.



tdc said:


> Interesting, I've never heard that before. I don't listen to a lot of The Clash, are there any particular tracks where you think the sound later used by the Edge is particularly apparent?


I know U2 were influenced by The Clash, but I never heard the influence as much on the guitar playing. I will say, though, that if you haven't heard it, The Clash's London Calling is a must-have album. I don't like punk but even I like that album.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Another Montreal band I like, has opened for Sunn 0))) and is on the same label


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> I am far from a Dream Theater fan (I had a quick fling with them about 10 years ago), but your assessment of them is just plain wrong. They play some ridiculously complex music, with world class musicianship by all members. Rush's musicianship is not close, even the much lauded Peart. *IMO*.


I agree his assessment was wrong, but I disagree Rush's musicianship isn't close. Well, maybe Lifeson is nowhere near Petrucci technique-wise, but Peart and Lee are absolutely in the same ballpark as Portnoy and Myung. Granted, I'm a guitarist who can only play basic bass/drums, but I've played with bassists/drummers who've played stuff from both bands and all of them have some incredibly challenging pieces. I mean, YYZ and La Villa Strangiato VS Metropolis Pt. 1 and The Dance of Eternity... no musician is going to have an easy time with ANY of these pieces.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Rush for punks!


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