# People who play primarily single-voice instruments...



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

How do you / they manage to keep things interesting? I'd be bored out of my mind being a tubist, cellist, oboist, etc. Especially at a professional level. Not only are the instruments so limiting, but if you're an orchestral musician you're playing the same 50 pieces over and over and over again...

I can understand being a professional pianist or guitarist, but most instruments just seem deficient to put that much time into, especially playing in an orchestral setting where many instruments are usually relegated to uninteresting secondary or tertiary lines. How do you / they do it? Do you / they enjoy it?

This is a genuine inquiry and I'm looking for serious insights. I don't mean to offend anyone; I'm just curious. Thanks.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I play piano and cello. With Cello I always enjoyed hearing the rest of the Orchestra along with my parts.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Trumpet here. It's grand. There is always something to master, regardless of the style you play. I can't understand that one would not understand that


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Have you ever played such an instrument? The tone production is obviously far more of a challenge than with piano or guitar (I also doubt that many people would agree that the guitar repertoire is more interesting than that for the standard woodwinds, brass, strings...). The challenges are more physical, not only "musical".

It's a bit like people who think running must be the most boring sport for the people who do it because it is so uniform compared with basketball or soccer.


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## VoiceFromTheEther (Aug 6, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> It's a bit like people who think running must be the most boring sport for the people who do it because it is so uniform compared with basketball or soccer.


I think it's a great comparison.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> How do you / they manage to keep things interesting? I'd be bored out of my mind being a tubist, cellist, oboist, etc. Especially at a professional level.


The human voice is a single voiced instrument in the west.



BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> but if you're an orchestral musician you're playing the same 50 pieces over and over and over again...


The same is probably true for most piano players, playing solo or in ensemble. Concerts of the same pieces over and over again.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Kreisler jr said:


> Have you ever played such an instrument? The tone production is obviously far more of a challenge than with piano or guitar (I also doubt that many people would agree that the guitar repertoire is more interesting than that for the standard woodwinds, brass, strings...). The challenges are more physical, not only "musical".
> 
> It's a bit like people who think running must be the most boring sport for the people who do it because it is so uniform compared with basketball or soccer.


Guitar is fit for solo improvisation, de facto making it more interesting. I also wasn't just talking about classical music only.

And I love running because of the headspace you get in, the feeling of exertion, and the health benefits. I suppose at least the first two are applicable here. (And soccer is quite a boring sport, to be honest.) But these are people who study and play music, often of which they are only responsible for a tiny fraction. Do they not frequently seek The Bigger Picture?


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> The human voice is a single voiced instrument in the west.


Yes for some reason this one doesn't strike me as unusual to master. Maybe it's the repertoire, maybe it's an appeal to nature, maybe the fact that you can play it the same time as the piano.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Guitar is fit for solo improvisation, de facto making it more interesting. I also wasn't just talking about classical music only.


You didn't answer my question, though, how many wind/brass/bowed string instruments have you tried and to which level? The three primarily single voiced instruments you mentioned are almost only used in classical music, so I can be excused to think of classical guitar. Of course people with such instruments as woodwinds tend to play with others more frequently than pianists because they have to. And of course, many wind or string players, also play keyboard to some extent. It does not seem mysterious to me that there are many aspects to why a particular instrument is attractive to particular players. It's not all viola players who weren't good enough for violin 

The comparison of running (and any other ballgame, don't get hung up on soccer, take another one) does not really get interesting on the level of a few hours recreational running per week with an external purpose like health. It is interesting for (semi)professional, e.g. college level runners and above who run (almost) every day for years with the main purpose of being good and competing at running.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

I played violin at a basic level. I can see why others would find it engaging and fun, but as a _musician_ I found it rather unsatisfactory for my needs most of the time. This was never the case when I was starting out with guitar (I started piano when I was 4 or 5)


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Orchestral players don't just play orchestral rep. They play chamber music, sonatas with piano accompaniment, and solo works, often in concert series associated with their orchestras. And standard wind instruments are just as suited to improvisation as guitar or piano. Not sure what you're talking about there.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> And standard wind instruments are just as suited to improvisation as guitar or piano. Not sure what you're talking about there.


Not solo improvisation, come on. No harmonization, voice-leading, counterpoint, etc.

My main question is, how do you keep things interesting? What are the intricacies of your instruments which you find endless joy in exploring?

Here's an analogy: blues and country music. I used to think these genres were quite limited and I could not see why so many people devoted their whole lives to them. Getting to know them better, I recognize that there is a lot more to each of them than meets the eye (ear?).


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> The same is probably true for most piano players, playing solo or in ensemble. Concerts of the same pieces over and over again.


This is a valid point. I guess I'm more thinking about the potential of the instruments for those who are more musically adventurous.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> How do you / they manage to keep things interesting? I'd be bored out of my mind being a tubist, cellist, oboist, etc. Especially at a professional level. Not only are the instruments so limiting, but if you're an orchestral musician you're playing the same 50 pieces over and over and over again...
> 
> I can understand being a professional pianist or guitarist, but most instruments just seem deficient to put that much time into, especially playing in an orchestral setting where many instruments are usually relegated to uninteresting secondary or tertiary lines. How do you / they do it? Do you / they enjoy it?
> 
> This is a genuine inquiry and I'm looking for serious insights. I don't mean to offend anyone; I'm just curious. Thanks.


If you play tubes, cello and oboe there is no doubt that you might feel bored about them. Tubes and oboes are always harmony playing instruments in an orchestra so there wouldn't be melodies for you to play. However, you might enjoy playing cello because cello is sometimes assigned to play the melody. As a violinist, I am very lucky to be assigned into the first violin and play the melody all the time. However, I do feel playing harmonies always enjoyable as well.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> This is a valid point. I guess I'm more thinking about the potential of the instruments for those who are more musically adventurous.


The two instruments which have most inspired modern composers, at least this is what I would suggest, are the flute and the viola. The flute because of overblowing -- there has been a good deal of exploration of what happens with this technique. And the viola because of the overtones, which have been the inspiration for a lot of what is called "spectral" compositions -- i.e. compositions with harmony based on the natural overtones of the instrument.

So basically, if you play either of these two instruments, then there's a lot to explore.

On the other hand, the piano has been less central in recent music I think -- but that's contentious obvs.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Chamber music is the answer. Skillfully written chamber works give every player a workout and a feeling of purpose. For bassoon, the quintets of Sobeck, Danzi, Klughardt and others are fabulous music and a great deal of fun to play and quit a work out. The French masters of music for winds (Chretien!) are also a joy. Transcriptions are generally poor: the bassoon is relegated to oompah parts and do get boring - just like band music.

Tuba parts in band and a lot of orchestral music might be boring, just like contrabassoon parts. I am not as familiar with the brass world of chamber music, but things like the Ewald quintets certainly have fine tuba parts that go beyond oompah.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> The two instruments which have most inspired modern composers, at least this is what I would suggest, are the flute and the viola. The flute because of overblowing -- there has been a good deal of exploration of what happens with this technique. And the viola because of the overtones, which have been the inspiration for a lot of what is called "spectral" compositions -- i.e. compositions with harmony based on the natural overtones of the instrument.
> 
> So basically, if you play either of these two instruments, then there's a lot to explore.
> 
> On the other hand, the piano has been less central in recent music I think -- but that's contentious obvs.


Thanks for the laugh Mandryka


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

I've had similar thoughts but along different lines. I think if I didn't play the cello, which is an expressive, viable solo instrument with a rich repetoire, and played something like tuba or bassoon instead I would enjoy playing music way less. For example, I can play the Bach suites and jam with guitarists, which I couldn't really do if I played the tuba. I mean, I _could_, but it wouldn't be very musically pleasing. :lol:

And I don't mean to diss the tuba and bassoon: they're both wonderful instruments. Take RVW's tuba concerto or Weber and Mozart's bassoon concerti and Villa-Lobos Bachianas Brasilieras No. 6 and his duo for Oboe and Bassoon, Zelenka's virtuosic continuo lines...they have wonderful, albeit sort of limited repretoire (especially tuba). So for an advanced but still amateur player like myself, playing the cello has far more fun possibilities than these two other example instruments. Just my 2 cents.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

The simple fact is that people DO make lifelong careers out of playing those instruments. So clearly boredom isn't a problem for them. It's not like being a professional musician is an easy career path. They choose to stick with it for decades for a reason.

IMO the claim that these instruments would be too boring for that kind of dedication says more about the person making the claim than it does about the instruments.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

SuperTonic said:


> The simple fact is that people DO make lifelong careers out of playing those instruments. So clearly boredom isn't a problem for them.


I think that any job has the potential to become boring to the practitioner. You burn out. I played orchestral percussion for 25 years and I remember clearly the moment I had had enough: it was the end of the Mahler 1st and I was playing the bass drum part. Afterwards I said that I was tired of making music by banging things. A bassoonist friend suggest I should take up bassoon and I did, and I've done pretty well all things considered. I still play percussion occasionally, but only gigs I like, pay well and have some musical satisfaction. I haven't gotten bored yet playing bassoon - so much of the repertoire is so awesome. Playing a steady diet of Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, Haydn, Tchaikovsky and company is amazing. I do get bored at pops concerts though. The mind-numbing and cheesy arrangements for Christmas concerts for example. A gig last weekend was like that: I could have sight read the concert, the parts were so easy. The only redeeming piece, Handel's Hallelujah, was the only thing I looked forward to.

Fritz Reiner, before he got to Chicago, told someone that he's gotten so bored conducting that he even bores himself. Bruno Walter snarkily replied that he wasn't surprised: "He looks bored and he conducts boring concerts".


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Playing the bassoon is never boring...It is a constant challenge to make music, to sing thru the instrument, to overcome its technical challenges, to achieve just the right sound you want for the music being performed... I always loved making reeds, which is crucial...I was good at it, and had good teachers; but it is part of mastering the instrument, a lifelong challenge, you are always learning, making adjustments, making improvements [hopefully]...

I agree with mbhaub that "Pops" concerts can be pretty boring, the parts are generally very dull and unimaginative; but every job has its drudgery. as they say, <<the "Pops" programs help pay for all the good stuff!!>>
The repertoire for bassoon is very large, bassoons have been around for a long time. There are a lot of gigs that require bassoon...lots of chamber music, too. The solo literature is not extensive compared to some other instruments, but there are some treasures, for sure...
I love the Vivaldi Bassoon concerti - there are c.38 of them, they lie very nicely for the instrument and sound great...and no, he didn't write the same concerto 38 times!! :lol::lol:


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Heck148 said:


> I love the Vivaldi Bassoon concerti - there are c.38 of them, they lie very nicely for the instrument and sound great...and no, he didn't write the same concerto 38 times!! :lol::lol:


He actually composed one concerto with 114 movements.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Anyone who thinks a single-line instrument is poor for improvisation because of supposedly lacking harmony or counterpoint owes it to themselves to learn about compound melody, and study the Bach Cello Suites, or the solo violin Sonatas and Partitas.

In any case, I get sometimes get asked, after someone learns that I have dedicated decades of my life to playing the bassoon, "what else do you play? Just bassoon? Is that _all_?"

My answer: "I assure you, the bassoon is enough."

What holds my interest the most on the bassoon is its seemingly inexhaustible range of color and facility for expression and style. Despite the limited dynamic range, it's a highly versatile instrument.

Having said that, I admit I wish my piano chops were better. I didn't study piano until college, when I enrolled in group lessons required for music majors lacking piano skills. And while I was working on composition degrees, I was especially required to develop piano skills. But when I was supposed to be practicing piano, instead I was usually practicing the bassoon...

But the _only_ reason I wish my piano skills were better has zero to do with composing, or even improvising, and everything to do with my love of ton of repertoire I wish I could play and just can't.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Isn't this the first time on this forum, the great bassoonists of TC, mbhaub, Heck148, arpeggio, Knorf all posting in succession consecutively?


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> How do you / they manage to keep things interesting? I'd be bored out of my mind being a tubist, cellist, oboist, etc. Especially at a professional level. Not only are the instruments so limiting, but if you're an orchestral musician you're playing the same 50 pieces over and over and over again...
> 
> I can understand being a professional pianist or guitarist, but most instruments just seem deficient to put that much time into, especially playing in an orchestral setting where many instruments are usually relegated to uninteresting secondary or tertiary lines. How do you / they do it? Do you / they enjoy it?
> 
> This is a genuine inquiry and I'm looking for serious insights. I don't mean to offend anyone; I'm just curious. Thanks.


I play the piano and I'm learning the cello. I love the keyboard, but for all its harmonic richness there's a certain mechanical and cold feel to it. As for the cello I'll paraphrase Rostropovich: "I fell in love with the cello because it sounded like a voice: my voice". The first time I drew a bow across the open C and G strings and felt them vibrate through me like a pipe organ diapason, I was hooked. Most instruments have their challenges that can keep you occupied, and I respect a virtuoso oboist or bassoonist as much as a virtuoso pianist.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

hammeredklavier said:


> Isn't this the first time on this forum, the great bassoonists of TC, mbhaub, Heck148, arpeggio, Knorf all posting in succession consecutively?


It's because we bassoonists are such an harmonious ensemble!! lol!!


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

SuperTonic said:


> The simple fact is that people DO make lifelong careers out of playing those instruments. So clearly boredom isn't a problem for them. It's not like being a professional musician is an easy career path. They choose to stick with it for decades for a reason.
> 
> IMO the claim that these instruments would be too boring for that kind of dedication says more about the person making the claim than it does about the instruments.


No one made any claim. Relax.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

hammeredklavier said:


> Isn't this the first time on this forum, the great bassoonists of TC, mbhaub, Heck148, arpeggio, Knorf all posting in succession consecutively?


I ain't so great. I was not a professional musician. I am a retired pension auditor from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Knorf said:


> Anyone who thinks a single-line instrument is poor for improvisation because of supposedly lacking harmony or counterpoint owes it to themselves to learn about compound melody, and study the Bach Cello Suites, or the solo violin Sonatas and Partitas.


I know plenty about compound melody and have studied / love all of the pieces you mention. In fact sometimes I enjoy improvising in the piano with one hand (usually in the style of Bach cello suites haha) for the very purpose of exploring the possibilities you encounter when you impose such a constraint. It improves musicianship, for sure.

But sometimes I just need to play chords, especially as someone who enjoys many genres. Regarding your last paragraph, that's one of the main reasons I'm glad to play keyboard and guitar: I can play any repertoire I love (sure it's not exactly the same as on the original instruments, but it's I'm not good enough to really care anyway  ).


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