# Most Underrated Opera



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

What do you think is the most underrated opera?

My choice is Weber's _Der Freischütz_, at least in the US (the Met hasn't done it since the 1970s!) since I don't know if it's performed often elsewhere.

It's full of good music, has a really good plot, and was an influence on Wagner.

The "Wolf's Glen" scene has some of the creepiest music I've ever heard and would be one of the most exciting scenes to see in person if staged well. There are several good choruses too. 
"Und ob die Wolke" is one of the most beautiful excerpts I've ever heard! :angel:
I also like the rustic/pastoral atmosphere.

What opera do you think needs to be performed more or better appreciated?


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

I agree, _Der Freischütz_ is a great opera that seems to get performed way too little. I just listened to it recently for the first time and I really liked the folkish tunes and the general optimism of the music. Of course the plot isn't nearly as complex as Wagner's but a few (if any) opera plots are. I think what makes _Der Freischütz_ very special is the fact that it was the very beginning of Romantic German opera and Wagner was obsessed with it (at least the overture) in his early childhood. In fact, Weber was a family acquaintance of the Wagners because one of Richard Wagner's sisters was an opera singer or at least that's what he wrote in _Mein Leben_. I think that many Strauss' operas also get less attention but I wouldn't say that Strauss in general is underrated or not appreciated.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Well, underrated begs the question, "By whom?"

I think *Der Freischütz* is rated quite highly by both opera lovers and musicologists. It may not be performed that often, but that's not necessarily the same thing.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Underrated or spot-on-rated, Der Freischutz is a great piece. It is certainly not as popular as it deserves. But frankly, after Kleiber's recording, there is no need for new ones. Listen to the ouverture alone, the Wolf's glen that is as fearful as ever when you listen to it. The kind of recording that will buy you right into a piece of music.

I am not that much of an opera lover per se, but this recording is absolutely on my shortlist.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 132563
> 
> 
> Underrated or spot-on-rated, Der Freischutz is a great piece. It is certainly not as popular as it deserves. But frankly, after Kleiber's recording, there is no need for new ones. Listen to the ouverture alone, the Wolf's glen that is as fearful as ever when you listen to it. The kind of recording that will buy you right into a piece of music.
> ...


Agreed - Kleiber's recording is great!


----------



## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

_La rondine_. This is a great opera, but is generally treated as the black sheep of the Puccini family, and is regularly dismissed by critics as shallow, sentimental fluff. Ironically, the opera seems to have gone over their heads. In reality, the opera is an extremely clever and self-aware examination of idea of "l'amor sentimentale," as Prunier directly names it in the opera, and therefore of the typical operatic love story. Also, people continually assert that it's a pale copy of _La traviata_. While there are a few superficial similarities, the actual point of the opera is precisely opposite. _La traviata_ is a classic operatic story about a love doomed by the incongruity between the personal feelings and desires of the characters and society. _La rondine_ is a story about how society and its widely received Romantic ideals conspires to bring two people together who don't really love each other. Violetta's "conversion" is real, while Magda's is simply convincing herself she's in love when she's not. Critics think Puccini didn't get this, but he did. Usually people say Act III is uninspired, as it begins with about 20 minutes of rehashing the love music of Acts I and II. I used to think that too. But then I realized the whole point is that Acts I and II are one romantic evening, and _that's all the have_. They have nothing in common, different tastes, different dreams. What looks like lack of inspiration on the surface is actually a classic example of Puccini being way ahead of his critics: Act III produces the feeling that their love has grown stale because it _has_. That's the point. Anyway, it's a great opera that has everything from metatheater to humor to a great big concertato. It's full of melodic and rhythmic delight, and features beautiful harmonies and orchestrations are really special. It's a wonderful piece.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Yayyyy! A new thread on this website for a change!

Montemezzi's _L'amore dei tre re_
Cilea's _Adriana Lecouvreur_


----------



## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

annaw said:


> Agreed - Kleiber's recording is great!


It's good, but recordings with separate actors taking the spoken word dialogue who sound nothing like the singers tend to irk me. I think my preferred recording all around is Kleiberth's. You can't beat Elisabeth Grümmer's Agathe.


----------



## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Another way of stating the question might be which operas I love by the largest margin more than most people seem to, and for me, those would be Pelleas et Melisande and Fanciulla del West. 

Agree with others that Freischutz and Adriana Lecouvreur could use more love, and La Rondine is pretty good. The Bartered Bride is another great opera that rarely gets much attention. Fedora and L'Amico Fritz always seem to me like operas that should be in the standard rep and played pretty regularly, and it's surprising to me they're not.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

WildThing said:


> It's good, but recordings with separate actors taking the spoken word dialogue who sound nothing like the singers tend to irk me. I think my preferred recording all around is Kleiberth's. You can't beat Elisabeth Grümmer's Agathe.


I will certainly give Kleiberth's a shot! Thanks!


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Glad to see some love for_Der Freischütz. _I would probably recommend the Carlos Kleiber recording as a first choice, even though using actors for dialogue annoys me, but I do recommend that anyone who likes the opera explore other recordings. I recommend the Keilberth recording and the Kubelik recording.

The Keilberth has the most complete dialogue as far as I know, and Elisabeth Grümmer does sound simply marvelous as Agathe! 

I also recommend the Kubelik recording (if you can find it) mainly for its excellent "Wolf's Glen" scene which is probably the creepiest one I've heard.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well, underrated begs the question, "By whom?"
> 
> I think *Der Freischütz* is rated quite highly by both opera lovers and musicologists. It may not be performed that often, but that's not necessarily the same thing.


Yeah, I suppose that's vague. I guess you could take it as lack of appreciation either from opera houses, critics, or audiences.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

nina foresti said:


> Yayyyy! A new thread on this website for a change!
> 
> Montemezzi's _L'amore dei tre re_
> Cilea's _Adriana Lecouvreur_


LOL. :lol:
I've probably either resurrected or started about ten threads in the past two days.

I think I heard part of _Adriana Lecouvreur _on a Met opera radio broadcast a while ago.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

There are lots of operas that I think deserve to be heard more than they are. A few examples:

Magnard - Guercoeur
Chausson - Le roi Arthus
d'Albert - Tiefland
Pfitzner - Palestrina
Pfitzner - Die Rose vom Liebesgarten
Poulenc - Dialogues des Carmélites
Boughton - The immortal hour


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Yayyyy! A new thread on this website for a change!
> 
> Montemezzi's _L'amore dei tre re_
> Cilea's _Adriana Lecouvreur_


I do like _L'amore dei tre re_ but I've always thought _Adrianna Lecouvreur_ was a load of old twaddle, despite having one or two quite nice arias.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

WildThing said:


> It's good, but recordings with separate actors taking the spoken word dialogue who sound nothing like the singers tend to irk me. I think my preferred recording all around is Kleiberth's. You can't beat Elisabeth Grümmer's Agathe.


Seconded. The Keilberth recording is excellent, and Grümmer is, as you say, unbeatable.


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

For me its Die Frau ohne Schatten. I know its difficult to cast & stage, but I wish it was performed more often


----------



## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

adriesba said:


> Glad to see some love for_Der Freischütz. _I would probably recommend the Carlos Kleiber recording as a first choice, even though using actors for dialogue annoys me, but I do recommend that anyone who likes the opera explore other recordings. I recommend the Keilberth recording and the Kubelik recording.
> 
> The Keilberth has the most complete dialogue as far as I know, and Elisabeth Grümmer does sound simply marvelous as Agathe!
> 
> I also recommend the Kubelik recording (if you can find it) mainly for its excellent "Wolf's Glen" scene which is probably the creepiest one I've heard.


I've historically had Keilberth first, Kleiber second and Kubelik third, but lately I've probably been listening most to the Sawallisch live recording from 1973 with James King, Margaret Price, Helen Donath and Karl Riddersbusch in good live stereo sound. Excellent, maybe the strongest overall cast.


----------



## Sad Al (Feb 27, 2020)

Bellini's Anna Bolena


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sad Al said:


> Bellini's Anna Bolena


Bellini didn't write *Anna Bolena*, Donizetti did.


----------



## Sad Al (Feb 27, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Bellini didn't write *Anna Bolena*, Donizetti did.


Ohoops. Perhaps that's why no one rates Bellini's Anna Bolena. Well, I like the Callas version and especially the end.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon:
I am inclined to agree but the top of the top singers like Tebaldi, Caballe kill to be Adriana. Of course they pale next to Olivero's.


----------



## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

From an article entitled "15 operas ripe for rediscovery" -

http://www.classical-music.com/article/15-operas-ripe-rediscovery

1.) Tsar Saltan - Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov, 1900

2.) Iris - Pietro Mascagni, 1898

3.) The Dragon of Wantley - John Frederick Lampe, 1737

4.) Ivan IV - Georges Bizet, 1863

5.) Acante et Céphise - Jean-Philippe Rameau, 1751

6.) Undine - Ernst Theodor Amadeus Hoffmann, 1815

7.) Die Rheinnixen - Jacques Offenbach, 1864

8.) Die Loreley - Max Bruch, 1863

9.) Le roi d'Ys - Edouard Lalo, 1875

10.) The Wreckers - Ethel Smyth, 1906

11.) La gioventù di Enrico V - Saverio Mercadante, 1834

12.) Gli equivoci - Stephen Storace, 1786

13.) Salvator Rosa - Carlos Gomes, 1874

14.) La libertà contenta - Agostino Steffani, 1693

15.) Maddalena - Sergei Prokofiev, 1911

And a link to Presto Classical's page for the Opera Rara catalog -

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/labels/1067/browse?size=10&view=large


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sad Al said:


> Ohoops. Perhaps that's why no one rates Bellini's Anna Bolena. Well, I like the Callas version and especially the end.


Well yes, me too. Though I doubt anyone has ever underrated the Callas version. :tiphat:


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Without a moment's hesitation:









And I recommend this recording over Tebaldi et al on Decca, as attractive as that may look on paper.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well, underrated begs the question, "By whom?"
> 
> I think *Der Freischütz* is rated quite highly by both opera lovers and musicologists. It may not be performed that often, but that's not necessarily the same thing.


True, I certainly think it's one of the most underperformed operas. Whether that makes it underrated or not is another question.

N.

I think Stifelio is the most underrated opera. Yes, it had a number of performances in the nineties in an effort to get it into the repertoire (it could have been a new Don Carlo or Macbeth in that they were Verdi operas that were once rarities and are now part of the regular rep). However, it never quite took the place it deserves.

N.


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Oh, and of course, the most underrated opera composer by far:









Michael Tanner's thoughts on the Gluck anniversary a few years back:

https://www.spectator.com.au/2014/01/i-would-quite-happily-never-see-der-rosenkalier-again/

I largely agree...


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Ulfilas said:


> Without a moment's hesitation:
> 
> View attachment 132597
> 
> ...


This opera and this recording just crossed my mind right before I saw this post. :lol:

I have that same performance, but I haven't listened to it much yet. It must be time.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

The Conte said:


> True, I certainly think it's one of the most underperformed operas. Whether that makes it underrated or not is another question.
> 
> N.


I'd say that makes it underrated by opera houses at least.


----------



## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Ulfilas said:


> Oh, and of course, the most underrated opera composer by far:
> 
> View attachment 132598
> 
> ...


I always thought Gluck was boring. It turns out that the way he's usually sung and played is boring. Frida Leider singing "Ah si la liberte" from _Armide_, now one of my favorite arias of in the whole repertoire, changed my perspective. Now I love historical performances of Gluck operas. Gluck really was a master.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> I'd say that makes it underrated by opera houses at least.


Not essentially because in that case Wagner's late operas would be underrated as well  . I suppose there're multiple reasons why it gets performed less - probably one of the major ones is that for opera houses it's just much easier to stick with the standard repertoire. Also, there needs to be enough demand to stage a new opera, but (very SUBJECTIVE) Italian opera seems to be more popular among general public compared to the German one and therefore it might be financially more reasonable to stage _La Traviata_ instead of _Der Freischütz_ (I'm certainly not implying that Traviata isn't great, just needed a good comparison from the standard Italian repertoire).


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

One quickly sprang to mind.

Kurt Weill - _Die Bürgschaft_ [_The Surety_] (1931):

_Die Bürgschaft_ was Kurt Weill's last large-scale opera until _Street Scene_ over 15 years later, and is probably Weill's most 'operatic' work in the strictest sense of the word. Weill put much faith in _Die Bürgschaft_, which generally speaking is a parable about individual greed and the erosion of goodwill in a cynical dog-eat-dog world, but not long after the premiere its acceptance in Germany came to a shuddering standstill when further performances were cancelled in the months leading up to Adolf Hitler becoming Chancellor. Soon afterwards _Die Bürgschaft_, like all of Weill's work, found itself off-limits in Germany.

The music isn't as sour as the Berlin pit-band style employed in previous works, but it isn't lush in the style of the Broadway productions to come, either. The plot itself still resonates in real life today, so more's the pity that this fine work has had so little exposure over the last 90 years.

Revivals have occurred but have been very rare - the most fruitful being the at the Spoleto Festival in Charleston (1999) which also provided the only recording to date.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> Not essentially because in that case Wagner's late operas would be underrated as well  . I suppose there're multiple reasons why it gets performed less - probably one of the major ones is that for opera houses it's just much easier to stick with the standard repertoire. Also, there needs to be enough demand to stage a new opera, but (very SUBJECTIVE) Italian opera seems to be more popular among general public compared to the German one and therefore it might be financially more reasonable to stage _La Traviata_ instead of _Der Freischütz_ (I'm certainly not implying that Traviata isn't great, just needed a good comparison from the standard Italian repertoire).


Wagner's operas may be performed less often than others, but they still have been performed way more often than _Der Freischütz_. Wagner's mature operas have all been performed recently at the Met. They just did _Der Ring_ last year. _Der Freischütz _hasn't been performed at the Met since the 1970's. If that's not a sign that it's underrated, at least at the Met, I don't know what is. :lol:


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> Wagner's operas may be performed less often than others, but they still have been performed way more often than _Der Freischütz_. Wagner's mature operas have all been performed recently at the Met. They just did _Der Ring_ last year. _Der Freischütz _hasn't been performed at the Met since the 1970's. If that's not a sign that it's underrated, at least at the Met, I don't know what is. :lol:


Yeah, possibly :lol: . Turns out that I proved myself wrong - highly appreciated operas, even if super difficult to stage and cast, still get performed.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> Yeah, possibly :lol: . Turns out that I proved myself wrong - highly appreciated operas, even if super difficult to stage and cast, still get performed.


LOL. :lol: That's OK.

This page shows the number of performances per opera at the Met: http://archives.metoperafamily.org/archives/frame.htm

There's lots to learn from that page.

_La Bohème _has been #1 for a long time. I think _Aida_ has been #2 for awhile also. _La Traviata _only recently overtook _Carmen _for #3.

_Aaaaanyway_,

the mature Wagner opera that was performed least recently is _Lohengrin _(2006). _Der Freischütz _has only had 30 performances, the latest one in 1972. What a shame.

I don't get why they won't perform it.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> LOL. :lol: That's OK.
> 
> This page shows the number of performances per opera at the Met: http://archives.metoperafamily.org/archives/frame.htm
> 
> ...


I should check some time but what I've heard (I have no idea whether that's true or not) is that European opera houses perform unknown or new operas actually more frequently than many others.


----------



## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

adriesba said:


> What do you think is the most underrated opera?
> 
> My choice is Weber's _Der Freischütz_, at least in the US (the Met hasn't done it since the 1970s!) since I don't know if it's performed often elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Is Freischutz just too German/folksy for widespread appeal? The music is wonderful but I prefer singers whose first language is German. Is it performed more in German-speaking countries?


----------



## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

You know me - I'm a wee bit obsessed with I masnadieri. It seems to be gaining a bit more popularity in recent years. 

Also, The Demon definitely needs more love in the West! It's beautiful.

And, being Hungarian, I wish Erkel's operas were better known outside my country. They are a wonderful blend of bel canto and Hungarian folk styles of the 19th century. They are rooted in our history, of course, but the stories are not that hard to understand. In most cases, much like with early Verdis, medieval history is just a thinly veiled metaphor for our hatred towards the Habsburg oppressors.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Open Book said:


> Is Freischutz just too German/folksy for widespread appeal? The music is wonderful but I prefer singers whose first language is German. Is it performed more in German-speaking countries?


I don't know.

I thought I saw it scheduled at an opera house in Germany, but I don't check German opera house schedules regularly, so I'm not sure.

I think a small opera company here in the US did a (rather politicized) production of it recently. It looked awful though, if I remember correctly.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> I should check some time but what I've heard (I have no idea whether that's true or not) is that European opera houses perform unknown or new operas actually more frequently than many others.


Not sure. I think I saw a German opera house that had _Der Freischütz _and _Les Huguenots _scheduled. I just don't know because I don't often look at what European opera houses have in their seasons.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)




----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Sad Al said:


> Bellini's Anna Bolena


Next round is on me Al :cheers:


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Open Book said:


> Is Freischutz just too German/folksy for widespread appeal? The music is wonderful but I prefer singers whose first language is German. Is it performed more in German-speaking countries?


It's my understanding that _Freischutz_ has remained regular rep in German-speaking countries. I have no statistics to back that up.

Anyone for Weber's _Euryanthe?_


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Some statistics from https://www.operabase.com/statistics/en





































To be continued


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

NLAdriaan said:


> Some statistics from https://www.operabase.com/statistics/en


I forgot about that site. That would be helpful.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Continued:















Well, quite an exercise These are data from 2004-2019

It shows that Operahouses like to program the 'best of', likely for commercial reasons. A better overview of how the CM market looks like, is not available. The list of underperformed operas is much longer than the list of overperformed ones. And I don't know of a statistics site for symphonic concerts, but the picture would be as black and white as this one.

And Freischutz is indeed a quite popular repertoire piece in the German speaking countries in Europe. One unknown mid-sized German town (Eutlin) has performed more Freischutze than the whole of the US.


----------



## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

Robert Schumann...Genoveva.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

NLAdriaan said:


> It shows that Operahouses like to program the 'best of', likely for commercial reasons. A better overview of how the CM market looks like, is not available. The list of underperformed operas is much longer than the list of overperformed ones. And I don't know of a statistics site for symphonic concerts, but the picture would be as black and white as this one.
> 
> And Freischutz is indeed a quite popular repertoire piece in the German speaking countries in Europe. One unknown mid-sized German town (Eutlin) has performed more Freischutze than the whole of the US.


Its popularity in German-speaking countries is very remarkable! I suspected that there might be a difference in popularity between the US and Europe (mainly the Germanic part of Europe) but this is striking!


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> It's my understanding that _Freischutz_ has remained regular rep in German-speaking countries. I have no statistics to back that up.
> 
> Anyone for Weber's _Euryanthe?_


I was wondering whether you can recommend any good recordings of _Euryanthe_? I found a few (e.g Keilberth, Janowski) but I'm cannot decide which one would be preferable.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Ulfilas said:


> Without a moment's hesitation:
> 
> View attachment 132597
> 
> ...


The cover photo must've been taken on a bad day. They don't look happy!


----------



## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Any opera of Sallinen, in my book the most interesting opera composer since Britten.


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

MAS said:


> The cover photo must've been taken on a bad day. They don't look happy!


Well, things don't really turn out well for any of them!


----------



## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

Nielsen: Maskarade
Braunfels: The Birds
Martinu: Julietta 

Maybe not under rated, but under performed, and maybe under listened to.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Rangstrom said:


> Any opera of Sallinen, in my book the most interesting opera composer since Britten.


I think you're onto something there. I heard _Kullervo_ years ago and should do so again. Which of his other operas would you recommend?


----------



## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Rangstrom said:


> Any opera of Sallinen, in my book the most interesting opera composer since Britten.





Woodduck said:


> I think you're onto something there. I heard _Kullervo_ years ago and should do so again. Which of his other operas would you recommend?











*Sallinen: The King Goes Forth to France*

*Tommi Hakala, Jyrki Korhonen, Riikka Rantanen, Lilli Paasikivi, Mari Palo, Laura Nykänen, Jyrki Anttila, Herman Wallén & Santeri Kinnunen

Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Finnish Philharmonic Chorus, Tapiola Chamber Choir, Okko Kamu*

*Link to complete opera -*

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lx3f77DUal-29tvQ8cFXtgTTL5feUSRcc

" The King Goes Forth to France (1980-83) was Sallinen's third opera and is regarded by many commentators as the composer's most problematic.
On the contrary, it is the best and most profound, and its impact on Sallinen's subsequent music is incalculable. Subtitled a 'Chronicle for the Music Theatre of the Coming Ice Age', The King Goes Forth is a bitingly satirical musical allegory. Sallinen has referred to it as a 'fairy-tale for adults' and there are undoubtedly fantastical elements in the storyline, which blends the past, present and one possible future into a dark yet vivid vision of the corruptibility of absolute power.

The premise of the opera, to Paavo Haavikko's libretto based on his own radio play, is this: at some point in the near future, England will be overwhelmed by the advance of a new ice sheet.
The Prince, whom the Prime Minister is urging to take a wife (even providing a quartet of nubile candidates: the two Carolines and two Annes), decides instead that the only safe course is to abandon England (and, presumably, the old King) and cross the Channel on a bridge of ice to resettle in France - where he is declared King.

Along the way, however, the events of the Hundred Years' War unfold again with the Battle of Crécy and Siege of Calais refought to the same result. In the meantime, the King has married, for political reasons, a German Princess and immediately pawned her (and his crown) to raise funds for his campaign. As Calais falls once more - the tale recorded by a new Froissart - and a storm signals the advance to Paris and the onset of spring, the King instructs his chronicler to omit him from history, abrogating all responsibility, claiming to have been made by Time.

Those familiar with Sallinen's Fourth Symphony, Fifth Quartet or, especially, the orchestral prelude Shadows will recognise several strands in the music. Brilliantly scored, the orchestral contribution is crucial, underpinning the foreground action - often with emotional correctives, such as the chirpy march that accompanies the flaying of the Archer - and the word-setting and dramaturgy have the effectiveness of Britten or Henze.

Tommi Hakala as the King cannot banish memories of Jorma Hynninen in the premiere productions, while Lilli Paasikivi shines as the mentally fragile Caroline with the Thick Mane. Ondine's spectacular sound catches both the quietest ruminations of the four women and the explosive eruptions of the King's great cannon, Parliament. Highly recommended."

- The Gramophone Classical Music Guide


----------



## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> I think you're onto something there. I heard _Kullervo_ years ago and should do so again. Which of his other operas would you recommend?


I would try the DVD of King Lear with Salminen first. The DVD of the Red Line is a close second.


----------



## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

The bel canto composers have quite a few underrated gems. In fact, some of them are so far off the radar that they are not underrated - they're just not really rated at all anymore.

Most of the serious Rossini operas are underrated judging by the number of performances. The wonderful Rossini festival in Pesaro has made some impact with the visibility of some of these operas over the past couple of decades. Certainly Maometto II, Mose in Egitto deserve to be performed more often than they are - and strong arguments can be made for quite a few others.

Sticking with serious Rossini, most operaphiles acknowledge that Guillaume Tell is worthy of inclusion in any list of important operas, containing a gripping drama and some of the composer's most memorable arias and duets - and yet it is not frequently performed (158th (!) most frequently performed since 2004 according to operabase.com). Perhaps it is the length? It is 4 hours long yet it never lags - and is shorter than many other frequently performed reparatory operas (Wagner etc.). The Pesaro production of Tell is available on streaming right now - the singing is top notch (especially Marina Rebeka's Act II aria) but the regie production distracts from the story in my opinion. Covent Garden had a similar production a few years ago. Why can't we get a non-regie Tell?

Finally, a real under the radar gem is Mercadante's Orazi e Curiazi. There is a very nice recording on the Opera Rara label. Fantastic! Mercadante is a composer that has been almost entirely forgotten but Opera Rara has brought a few of his best operas back. Virginia is also very good - also available on Opera Rara. A nice review of Orazi can be found on the "Phil's Opera World" website:

https://philsoperaworld.music.blog/2018/12/22/saverio-mercadante-orazi-e-curiazi-1846/


----------



## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Dick Johnson said:


> Sticking with serious Rossini, most operaphiles acknowledge that Guillaume Tell is worthy of inclusion in any list of important operas, containing a gripping drama and some of the composer's most memorable arias and duets - and yet it is not frequently performed (158th (!) most frequently performed since 2004 according to operabase.com). Perhaps it is the length? It is 4 hours long yet it never lags - and is shorter than many other frequently performed reparatory operas (Wagner etc.). The Pesaro production of Tell is available on streaming right now - the singing is top notch (especially Marina Rebeka's Act II aria) but the regie production distracts from the story in my opinion. Covent Garden had a similar production a few years ago. Why can't we get a non-regie Tell?


_Tell_ is a great piece with many highlights, but who's going to sing it? I can't think of any current tenor I want to hear sing 46 high As or whatever the number is. It's definitely one that should be considered top tier. I find the finale very moving.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I totally agree about serious Rossini. Ermione (for example) is a masterpiece and should be performed more. However, the conductors and singers to do justice to Bel Canto are too few at the moment, unfortunately.

N.


----------



## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

Thanks for your comments, Conte and vivalagentenuova. 

Agree that Bel Canto needs a different sort of singer - but I think there are some good active tenors that can do a creditable job. Juan Diego Florez specializes in this repertoire and is always thrilling in the high registers. Lawrence Brownlee and Javier Camarena are others that come to mind. For active conductors, Michele Mariotti, David Parry, Mark Elder, Maurizio Benini and Enrique Mazzola are great with Bel Canto.


----------



## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

Thanks for your comments, Conte and vivalagentenuova. 

Agree that Bel Canto needs a different sort of singer - but I think there are some good active tenors that can do a creditable job. Juan Diego Florez specializes in this repertoire and is always thrilling in the high registers. Lawrence Brownlee and Javier Camarena are others that come to mind. For active conductors, Michele Mariotti, David Parry, Mark Elder, Maurizio Benini and Enrique Mazzola are great with Bel Canto.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Dick Johnson said:


> Thanks for your comments, Conte and vivalagentenuova.
> 
> Agree that Bel Canto needs a different sort of singer - but I think there are some good active tenors that can do a creditable job. Juan Diego Florez specializes in this repertoire and is always thrilling in the high registers. Lawrence Brownlee and Javier Camarena are others that come to mind. For active conductors, Michele Mariotti, David Parry, Mark Elder, Maurizio Benini and Enrique Mazzola are great with Bel Canto.


I feel it's often a question of the overall strength of the cast because even one serious miscast can ruin the production (to some extent at least) and even a well-cast title role might not save it. The variety is, in my opinion, another problematic thing - take Met productions for example, Netrebko sings in the majority (?) of the recent _bel canto_ operas. There seemed to be a lot more very great singers in the past who all had a different take and interpretation when singing a certain role and thus provided very valuable insights into the operas.


----------



## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Ulfilas said:


> Well, things don't really turn out well for any of them!


You mean vocally or because of the libretto? I feel it is true both ways... How about you? :lol:


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 132563
> 
> 
> Underrated or spot-on-rated, Der Freischutz is a great piece. It is certainly not as popular as it deserves. But frankly,* after Kleiber's recording, there is no need for new ones*. Listen to the ouverture alone, the Wolf's glen that is as fearful as ever when you listen to it. The kind of recording that will buy you right into a piece of music.
> ...


But there is need for a new cover image. Is a double barrel shotgun what Weber envisioned for this opera? I think not.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sad Al said:


> Ohoops. Perhaps that's why no one rates Bellini's Anna Bolena.


No but "Bellini Bolena" has a nice ring to it.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Mascagni's L'amico Fritz!

Flotow's Martha!


----------



## Hermastersvoice (Oct 15, 2018)

Dvorak is a seriously underrated opera composer. Dimitrij, Armida, Devil and Kate all merit inclusion in the standard repertoire. Only Rusalka seems to have made the cut.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

SixFootScowl said:


> But there is need for a new cover image. Is a double barrel shotgun what Weber envisioned for this opera? I think not.


Someone somewhere online said that the double-barreled shotgun was historically inaccurate based on when the opera takes place. From a brief internet search, it doesn't seem like they existed back then.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

adriesba said:


> Someone somewhere online said that the double-barreled shotgun was historically inaccurate based on when the opera takes place. From a brief internet search, it doesn't seem like they existed back then.


Having got the Kleiber recording I sometimes wondered about the use of a shotgun on the cover bearing in mind that the opera is, I think, set in the late 17th century. Maybe shotguns feature in _regietheater_ productions, but how they would be able to fire the loose spherical bullets cast by Kaspar in the Wolf's Glen is beyond me.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

elgars ghost said:


> Having got the Kleiber recording I sometimes wondered about the use of a shotgun on the cover bearing in mind that the opera is, I think, set in the late 17th century. Maybe shotguns feature in _regietheater_ productions, but how they would be able to fire the loose spherical bullets cast by Kaspar in the Wolf's Glen is beyond me.


Perhaps whoever made the cover didn't really know much about the opera.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

adriesba said:


> Someone somewhere online said that the double-barreled shotgun was historically inaccurate based on when the opera takes place. From a brief internet search, it doesn't seem like they existed back then.


That cover with the double barrel shotgun actually deterred me from checking out the opera. I had no idea what it was about but seeing the cover, I made an assumption that it must be a story about a shotgun wedding or something of that sort. That did not interest me so I moved on. Not sure what finally got me to check it out later, but it is now one of my favorite operas and that particular CD is one of the best performances of it.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> Having got the Kleiber recording I sometimes wondered about the use of a shotgun on the cover bearing in mind that the opera is, I think, set in the late 17th century. Maybe shotguns feature in _regietheater_ productions, but how they would be able to fire the loose spherical bullets cast by Kaspar in the Wolf's Glen is beyond me.


Well they do make shotgun shells that shoot slugs. They use the slugs for deer hunting, probably mostly in areas that don't allow high powered rifles. But I think the gun in the opera might have been more of a muzzle loader.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Anton Rubinstein's *The Demon*, a favorite of Rachmaninoff.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

SixFootScowl said:


> Well they do make shotgun shells that shoot slugs. They use the slugs for deer hunting, probably mostly in areas that don't allow high powered rifles. But I think the gun in the opera might have been more of a muzzle loader.


Yes. The opera is supposed to take place sometime after the Thirty Years War. I looked up Thirty Years War guns, and they were muzzle loaded.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

SixFootScowl said:


> Anton Rubinstein's *The Demon*, a favorite of Rachmaninoff.


I don't think I've ever heard anything by Rubinstein, but I am somewhat curious about his works.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

adriesba said:


> I don't think I've ever heard anything by Rubinstein, but I am somewhat curious about his works.


Pretty sure you can find this one on You Tube. In fact, I just found and excellent one, and it has English subtitles.


----------



## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Some nice parts to that opera. 

I thought Rubinstein was a piano virtuoso who wrote only for the piano. That's the only music of his I knew.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Open Book said:


> Some nice parts to that opera.
> 
> I thought Rubinstein was a piano virtuoso who wrote only for the piano. That's the only music of his I knew.


And in the particular production in that You Tube there is another nice part: Dmitri Hvorostovsky!


----------



## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

The most underrated operas are those that haven't been recorded or performed, yet ought to be. Works like:
Cherubini's _Faniska_ (Beethoven and Haydn were fans). 
Halévy, admired by Berlioz, Wagner, and Mahler; _La Juive _is gripping, but what about _L'Éclair_, _Le Shérif_ (Berlioz experienced that rare pleasure bold, new, and skilfully co-ordinated compositions give to musicians), _Les mousquetaires de la reine_, _Le val d'Andorre_, or _La Fée aux roses_, triumphs in their day?
Reyer's _La Statue_ (Bizet: "the most remarkable work written in France for 20 years")
Paladilhe's _Patrie!_, Thomas's _Françoise de Rimini_, Salvayre's _Dame de Monsoreau_, De Lara's _Messaline_…

Otherwise...
Eighteenth century works - GLUCK, other than _Orphée _(his most popular because it's the shortest, and has "J'ai perdu mon Eurydice"). Grétry's _Andromaque _(better than Rossini's _Ermione_). Sacchini's _Oedipe à Colone_. Salieri's _Danaides_ (eighty deaths and a finale in Hell; overwhelmed the young Berlioz) and _Tarare_ (libretto by Beaumarchais, whose theories anticipate Wagner; revolutionary black comedy); _La grotta di Trofonio_'s rather good too. Monsigny's _Roi et le fermier_. Cherubini's _Lodoiska_ and _Médée_. (This is the guy Beethoven thought the greatest living composer; Schumann, Mendelssohn, Wagner and Brahms were also enthusiasts.)

Spontini, especially _Olympie_. Boieldieu's _Dame blanche_, one of the most beloved operas of the 19th century. Auber's _Muette de Portici_, _Gustave III_, _Fra Diavolo_ and _Cheval de bronze_, for starters. MEYERBEER's six French operas, all but two truly superb. Berlioz's _Benvenuto Cellini_, life-enhancing. Reyer's _Sigurd_, the French answer to the Ring. Massenet: _Werther _and _Manon _(neither his best) are overrepresented, while _Ariane_, _Roma_, _Grisélidis_, _Le jongleur de Notre-Dame_, _Amadis_, &c. are rarities. At least _Cendrillon_ and _Don Quichotte_ are occasionally staged. Saint-Saëns's _Henry VIII_ and _Ascanio_, Lalo's _Roi d'Ys_, Chausson's _Roi Arthus_, Dupont's _Antar_...

Wagner's _Liebesverbot_ - not Wagner's most profound opera, but full of verve. Lortzing's _Zar und Zimmermann_. Goldmark's _Königin von Saba_. Schillings's intense _Mona Lisa_. Strauss's Friedenstag and _Schweigsame Frau_.

Most Russian opera outside Russia, except for _Boris Godunov _and Tchaikovsky's _Onegin_ / _Queen of Spades_. Rimsky-Korsakov was one of the most imaginative orchestrators, but how often are _Sadko_, _Kitezh_ or _Koshchei_ performed? And what about Serov?

Moniuszko's _Straszny dwór_, the Polish national opera - extremely tuneful
Paliashvili's _Abesalom da Eteri_ - the Georgian national opera: hauntingly beautiful

Theodorakis's Greek trilogy _Medea_, _Elektra_, _Antigone_


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Dr. Shatterhand said:


> The most underrated operas are those that haven't been recorded or performed, yet ought to be. Works like:
> Cherubini's _Faniska_ (Beethoven and Haydn were fans).
> Halévy, admired by Berlioz, Wagner, and Mahler; _La Juive _is gripping, but what about _L'Éclair_, _Le Shérif_ (Berlioz experienced that rare pleasure bold, new, and skilfully co-ordinated compositions give to musicians), _Les mousquetaires de la reine_, _Le val d'Andorre_, or _La Fée aux roses_, triumphs in their day?
> Reyer's _La Statue_ (Bizet: "the most remarkable work written in France for 20 years")
> ...


You mentioned Meyerbeer and Halévy which reminds me, I really want to hear Auber's _L'enfant prodigue_! But there are no recordings of it other than the overture! 

I would certainly like it if all three of Wagner's early operas were performed more. _Rienzi _may be tedious to some, but the stuff it is criticized for is what I find charming about it!


----------



## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

adriesba said:


> You mentioned Meyerbeer and Halévy which reminds me, I really want to hear Auber's _L'enfant prodigue_! But there are no recordings of it other than the overture!
> 
> I would certainly like it if all three of Wagner's early operas were performed more. _Rienzi _may be tedious to some, but the stuff it is criticized for is what I find charming about it!


Hurrah! Another French opera fan!

Why are you so keen to hear_ L'enfant prodigue_? I agree, though, it would be interesting; maybe not Scribe's most dramatic libretto, but Berlioz positively reviewed it (http://www.hberlioz.com/feuilletons/debats501209.htm): "a rich, brilliant, lively, joyful score ... often touching, and completely free from those terrible beauties that come with boredom".
















I find _Rienzi _rather excessive - some of it is hugely impressive, even beautiful - but I've never quite recovered from listening to Downes's four-hour recording in one sitting. But the overture, Rienzi's prayer, and the Silbergroschen passage in Act III are superb. I've heard _Die Feen_, but don't remember much about it. Interesting, though, that Wagner was able to write aesthetically (but not commercially) successful works in such disparate styles: Weberian / Marschnerian German fairy-tale romance, mammoth opéra-comique, and Spontinian grand opéra.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Dr. Shatterhand said:


> Hurrah! Another French opera fan!
> 
> Why are you so keen to hear_ L'enfant prodigue_? I agree, though, it would be interesting; maybe not Scribe's most dramatic libretto, but Berlioz positively reviewed it (http://www.hberlioz.com/feuilletons/debats501209.htm): "a rich, brilliant, lively, joyful score ... often touching, and completely free from those terrible beauties that come with boredom".
> 
> ...


I think the story for _L'enfant prodigue _is an interesting coice for a grand opera. Plus, the fact that it's not recorded just really bothers me for some reason.

I must admit that I haven't heard a whole lot of French grand opera yet, but it intrigues me.

Were you one of those fortunate enough to get the Downes _Rienzi_ on Ponto? I only got it as mp3s and sometimes wonder how the sound would compare to the discs. My main annoyance is that I can't find a complete libretto or vocal score for it.


----------



## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

SixFootScowl said:


> And in the particular production in that You Tube there is another nice part: Dmitri Hvorostovsky!


I've watched this a while ago and it's a great opera. Plus a brooding Byronic Devil was a tailor-made role for Dima. Hope it will get a bit of popularity in the West. Tenors are probably not happy about being killed off so fast, though :lol:

And Tell (I also watched the Pesaro production) is beautiful. The staging was a bit WTF at places, but the music is something sublime. And what an excellent cast! Rebeka and Flórez always mean you're in for a treat, and Alaimo sounds fantastic. He really seems to be a Rossini/belcanto specialist (he did sing some rarities too), but he also has it all for Verdi. 
Tell also has probably the healthiest, most wholesome family dynamic I have seen in opera. They all love and support each other, they are all badass rebels and they manage to live!

Speaking of rarities that need love: Belisario. It feels almost like an early Verdi, with a tragic baritone father an its center, and a lot of historical/family drama. The music is gorgeous. The big father/daughter duet (unusually, the daughter is a mezzo!) made me cry.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Sieglinde said:


> Speaking of rarities that need love: Belisario. It feels almost like an early Verdi, with a tragic baritone father an its center, and a lot of historical/family drama. The music is gorgeous. The big father/daughter duet (unusually, the daughter is a mezzo!) made me cry.


That's the second time someone on here has mentioned that opera as being worthwhile. I don't know it at all, so obviously I need to head over to YouTube and give it a listen at some point.

N.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sieglinde said:


> And Tell (I also watched the Pesaro production) is beautiful. The staging was a bit WTF at places, but the music is something sublime. And what an excellent cast! Rebeka and Flórez always mean you're in for a treat, and Alaimo sounds fantastic. He really seems to be a Rossini/belcanto specialist (he did sing some rarities too), but he also has it all for Verdi.


I have never watched Tell, but have that one in my unwatched pile. I like Rebeka a lot and she is at the top of my list of *Traviata DVD*s (no subtitles, but well worth it anyway).


----------



## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

The Pesaro production of Guillaume Tell is indeed a mixed bag. The music is sublime - a titanic achievement - and the level of singing is simply superb - especially Rebeka and Florez in Act II. 
The staging and direction, on the other hand, are execrable. Why do the Swiss keep rubbing dirt on themselves? Why is the stage crowded with fake horses? 
It is streaming for free on operavision:
https://operavision.eu/en/library/auffuhrungen/opern/guillaume-tell-rossini-opera-festival#


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Der Vampyr (Marschner)


----------



## Autumn Leaves (Jan 3, 2014)

Tchaikovsky's _Iolanta_ - one of the most touching operas ever

Rimsky-Korsakov's _The Tale of Tsar Saltan_ - looks like people like it less than his other works, and while I agree that in terms of drama, there isn't much to find compared to _The Tsar's Bride_ or _The Snow Maiden_ or the others, but the music is absolutely gorgeous

Prokofiev's _The Love for Three Oranges_ - quite avant-garde, but hilarious and with interesting music

Marschner's _Der Templer und die Jüdin_ - it seems there is only one (!) unabridged version of it to find on YouTube (though a beautiful one, and with Jan-Hendrik Rootering as Beaumanoir!)


----------



## Autumn Leaves (Jan 3, 2014)

What little remains of Vivaldi's _Scanderbeg_, incorporated into a new score by Francesco Venerucci. I think the result is unusual-sounding but very charming.










 (a playlist with the entire opera)


----------

