# Bitches Brew is 50. New Documentary.



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/24/miles-davis-bitches-brew-50th-anniversary-film

I love the album, but came to it later being 11 when it was recorded. Would love to hear from those who remember it being released and the effect it had on them - 1970.

But after that I lost touch with Miles. It has struck me that his earlier work was pushing music in a direction upwards. BB opened up the floodgates for less talented individuals to be "Jazzers". Ultimately Miles then seemed to go down those same ever diminishing, easily travelled roads. I rarely listen to Jazz from then on, nowadays. BB seems to be where the dividing line is for me.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Bought it on vinyl the day it came out and have several incarnations of it now. It gets regular outings: at least once a year.  Its one of my go to things when I’m feeling nostalgic.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I was up at 4am and I watched the entire Birth Of The Cool documentary on PBS. An excellent production. They touched a bit on Bitches Brew. Some priceless commentary from Francis Taylor and several other people in his life. It's a penetrating look at Miles Davis the man, and the musician.


----------



## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

I bought it the week it was released; you practically _had_ to given the amount of attention it got, Miles on the cover of _Rolling Stone_ no less! I didn't really know what to make of it, but it grew on me. The battle lines were really drawn with this album, everybody choosing sides. My choice is the Second Great 5tet.


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Jay said:


> I bought it the week it was released; you practically _had_ to given the amount of attention it got, Miles on the cover of _Rolling Stone_ no less! I didn't really know what to make of it, but it grew on me. The battle lines were really drawn with this album, everybody choosing sides. My choice is the Second Great 5tet.


Interesting. I have often wondered over what period Jazz became a real minority interest. I guess at least one of RS's founders. Gleason, was a Jazz critic first. Still I'm surprised it made "The Cover of the Rolling Stone".


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

I thought Bitches Brew a bit uneven, but overall a revolutionary album. Unfortunately it did open the door for a lot of guys who didn't know what they were doing and fusion was born. Horrid stuff mostly.

When it was released, BB was received warmly by a generation of listeners who were very open to new and different music. BB certainly fit that bill.

Brew was the beginning of the end for Miles. The In a Silent Way sessions in 1969 resulted in his last good releases. After that it was all down hill.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

_Bitches Brew_ was integral to that relatively short period which came between the post-bop and the funk. _Jack Johnson_ - another album I like very much - seemed to me like a one-off, lacking the shimmering vibe of its immediate predecessors but not quite as relentlessly funk-heavy as _On The Corner_, _Dark Magus_, _Get Up With It_, _Agharta_ and _Pangaea_. I like Davis' output up until and including _Pangaea_, but I will admit that the improvised trance-funk groove of much of the post-_Jack Johnson_ music does occasionally challenge my will.


----------



## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

I did not embrace jazz until a few years later and was too young to be conservative about it. Miles 60s quintet was an obvious place to begin... Even after purchasing BB, it had to grow on me, and its influence took time to grow on jazz as well. Musicians on BB include numerous legends, nevermind comments to the contrary... Miles was hot until his accident took him out, but if one has to like electric guitar funk etc to appreciate Dark Magus etc... For me the tune Ife, with several versions in the discography, is one of the essential funk workouts from this period....

The two final albums by the 60s quintet, Miles in The Sky and Filimanjaro, show Miles edging into rock and funk without going full electric, and include some of Tony Williams' most incredible work as a drummer... RIP


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Those albums leading up to BB are the ones I usually listen to along with acoustic quintet albums.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

My interest in jazz started slowly in college. That was 1970, and my roommate's collection was my introduction. He much preferred Coltrane* to Davis, so I explored Davis on my own - not with "Bitches Brew," but with "Kind of Blue" and other albums from the 50's. Over the years since, my interest in Davis's music has expanded more or less chronologically, and I reached "Bitches Brew," "Jack Johnson," and "On the Corner" during the past decade. I like all three, but I think I like "Jack Johnson" more than "Bitches Brew," and I like "In a Silent Way" more than either. I was surprised that I liked On the Corner" as much as I did on a first listen, but I don't know how it will hold up to repeated listenings. 

By the way, many of the albums in my current Davis collection are audiophile releases. I have almost all of the MFSL SACDs. We can debate the sound quality of SACD, but what is more significant is most of these are remastered from the original tapes (or so MFSL claims) using the original mixes. And that makes a difference.

*His favorite was "Ascension" - a bit much for me starting out.


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

For those in the UK BBC 2 is showing a new(?) 2 hour documentary on Miles. This Friday.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9358200/


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

What time, B? I can't see it on the scheduling for this Friday at all.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

gregorx said:


> I thought Bitches Brew a bit uneven, but overall a revolutionary album. Unfortunately it did open the door for a lot of guys who didn't know what they were doing and fusion was born. Horrid stuff mostly.
> 
> When it was released, BB was received warmly by a generation of listeners who were very open to new and different music. BB certainly fit that bill.
> 
> Brew was the beginning of the end for Miles. The In a Silent Way sessions in 1969 resulted in his last good releases. After that it was all down hill.


You can see Coltrane and Miles as reaching for the same goal; to free jazz from Western influences harmonically, towards a less chord oriented syntax (after the apotheosis of that kind of jazz in Giant Steps) to a more "world" or "African" or "Eastern" concept.

This automatically put less emphasis on harmonic complexity, meaning 'Western' chord changes and chord progressions derived from Tin Pan Alley song models, such as Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm," "Sweet Georgia Brown," and other ii-V7-I and I-vi-ii-V7 cyclic formulas, and put the emphasis on melodic elements of the player/performer.

Any "harmonic complexity" was now in the lines of soloists, and was no longer dependent on "formulas" of chords and their baggage, "themes," "bridges," "solos" over prescribed changes, etc. This is evident in The Cellar Door Sessions. After that, I think Miles just wanted to make a living, stay relevant, have a new audience in large concert venues, and be part of "the current music industry" instead of being a historical footnote.

Of course, it's easy to see how this concept of "the good old jazz" would appeal to Classical music listeners, who seem attached to fixed and defined forms of music.




starthrower said:


> Those albums leading up to BB are the ones I usually listen to along with acoustic quintet albums.


I hesitate to say it, but by your statement, you seem to fit the bill of the typical Classical listener. Of course, I realize your listening is much more expansive than this. But I admit that I derive much pleasure from listening to older jazz which "flexes my harmonic ear muscles." Are you offended?


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't care what you listen to. And as for the other opinion that Miles was finished after BB, that is not a generally held view as millions love his 70s electric albums. When I say I prefer the albums leading up to BB, I'm not insinuating in any way that the later music is inferior. It's just different.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> What time, B? I can't see it on the scheduling for this Friday at all.


That's because it is on on Saturday!


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Barbebleu said:


> That's because it is on on Saturday!


Thanks - I thought I was losing it for a moment.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Miles reinvented himself multiple times: Birth of the Cool 40's, the first Quintet 50's, the second Quintet 60's , BB 70's, We want Miles 80's and even an album like Aura. 

Just like with Beethoven, there are amazing musical developments between the periods, only Miles probably made more steps. 

In all of the above periods incomparable landmark records were released. No other jazz musician (OK, perhaps Ellington) was so resilient and uncompromised throughout his life. I love Miles' music of all of the abovementioned periods. But it is likely that many will stick to one or few of them.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Barbebleu said:


> That's because it is on on Saturday!


The documentary 'Birth of the Cool' is also on Netflix:tiphat:


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

NLAdriaan said:


> The documentary 'Birth of the Cool' is also on Netflix:tiphat:


Not on my Netflix! The Miles Davis Story, yes, but not Birth of the Cool.


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> You can see Coltrane and Miles as reaching for the same goal; to free jazz from Western influences harmonically, towards a less chord oriented syntax (after the apotheosis of that kind of jazz in Giant Steps) to a more "world" or "African" or "Eastern" concept.
> 
> This automatically put less emphasis on harmonic complexity, meaning 'Western' chord changes and chord progressions derived from Tin Pan Alley song models, such as Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm," "Sweet Georgia Brown," and other ii-V7-I and I-vi-ii-V7 cyclic formulas, and put the emphasis on melodic elements of the player/performer.
> 
> ...


Miles development of modal jazz in Kind of Blue (and really Ascenseur pour l'échafaud two years before showed what was coming) freed jazz musicians from chords. That is a pretty major step from bebop and hard bop. I just don't think that what Miles did in the last phase of his career was as significant as that. Or as influential.

So Miles work in the '60s is "good old jazz." Fine. I just like it better than Street Corner Talkin', Get Up With It, et. al. That's all. Don't know what you're getting at with saying that Classical music listeners are "attached to fixed and defined forms of music." From the number of posts you've submitted, I'd say you know that not to be the case.

Anyway, anyone who loves jazz is okay with me so, cheers.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I would never describe the music of the 60s Miles Quintet as old jazz. It was pretty much the blueprint of modern jazz of the future and has been copied for decades. Those albums recorded in the mid to late 60s still sound incredibly fresh and vital to my ears.


----------



## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

I could never get into later Miles. Kind of Blue is one of the greatest of all time, but everything afterward I thought didn't, couldn't live up to it. I much prefer his earlier works, his essential Blue Period (Blue Haze, Blue Moods, Round About Midnight, and the -in' albums, Walkin, Cookin, Relaxin, Workin, Steamin). I do like some of the later stuff, but unevenly as I was never keen on avant garde jazz (or avant garde anything, really).


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

AeolianStrains said:


> I could never get into later Miles. Kind of Blue is one of the greatest of all time, but everything afterward I thought didn't, couldn't live up to it. I much prefer his earlier works, his essential Blue Period (Blue Haze, Blue Moods, Round About Midnight, and the -in' albums, Walkin, Cookin, Relaxin, Workin, Steamin). I do like some of the later stuff, but unevenly as I was never keen on avant garde jazz (or avant garde anything, really).


Just tell me your top 10 'Classical' or Jazz pieces and I'll be amazed if a significant no of them weren't considered avant garde at the time of composition?


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

starthrower said:


> I don't care what you listen to. And as for the other opinion that Miles was finished after BB, that is not a generally held view as millions love his 70s electric albums. When I say *I prefer* the albums leading up to BB, I'm not insinuating in any way that the later music is inferior. It's just different.


I didn't say you thought the later Miles is inferior; only that your preference for the older formulaic music fits the bill of the typical Classical listener.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

starthrower said:


> I would never describe the music of the 60s Miles Quintet as old jazz. It was pretty much the blueprint of modern jazz of the future and has been copied for decades. Those albums recorded in the mid to late 60s still sound incredibly fresh and vital to my ears.


There are many ways in which the music of the 60s Miles Quintet is old; it was "chamber jazz," played in smaller club venues. It was not electric, not amplified, used traditional instrumentation (piano, stand-up bass) and used chord changes. This is much different from the later "drone over a groove" music he created.


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Barbebleu said:


> Not on my Netflix! The Miles Davis Story, yes, but not Birth of the Cool.


Perhaps an early Brexit result, but in The Netherlands the 'Birth of the Cool' doc it is on Netflix:trp:


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

"Birth of the Cool" is overrated, as is "Kind of Blue," i don't care how well it sold or how highly regarded it is.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> "Birth of the Cool" is overrated, as is "Kind of Blue," i don't care how well it sold or how highly regarded it is.


And a lot of us don't care that you don't care! We are right and you are wrong. So wrong, you're practically right again!

Have fun on planet MR.:tiphat:


----------



## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Belowpar said:


> Just tell me your top 10 'Classical' or Jazz pieces and I'll be amazed if a significant no of them weren't considered avant garde at the time of composition?


I just named a whole bunch of albums. I also don't engage in insipid top 10 lists or passive aggression.


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

AeolianStrains said:


> I just named a whole bunch of albums. I also don't engage in insipid top 10 lists or passive aggression.


Have a nice day.

I'll let others decide for themselves whose post was aggressive.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> I didn't say you thought the later Miles is inferior; only that your preference for the older formulaic music fits the bill of the typical Classical listener.


The 60s quintet was not formulaic. The people who copied them were. Just as the original jazz rock was not formulaic. But let's face it, all of this music is now decades old. So how is the electric stuff any more relevant or timeless than the acoustic jazz? And in general I don't have a preference for old music. This is only my preference with Miles. And we're talking a difference of a year or two in his music. Is In A Silent Way the old formulaic stuff? I don't think so. I listen to plenty of other contemporary modern music.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> There are many ways in which the music of the 60s Miles Quintet is old; it was "chamber jazz," played in smaller club venues. It was not electric, not amplified, used traditional instrumentation (piano, stand-up bass) and used chord changes. This is much different from the later "drone over a groove" music he created.


on the other hand the "drone over a groove" was the stuff that was done in the early sixties by a lot of musicians, while the second quintet had one of the greatest jazz composers of all time (Shorter) at his peak producing incredibly sophisticated pieces.
And while I love the sound of electric instruments (that in any case wasn't new, considering that Sun Ra was using electric pianos and electric bass in the mid fifties, and that the electric guitar and other electric instruments like the organ were used even before) I think that Miles would have loved to still have Shorter in his band to write great stuff.
And I don't see the fact that someone plays in big arenas instead of small club as a progress at all. Actually in those situtations you tend to lose a lot of sound detail I think.


----------

