# Tchaikovsky's Seventh Symphony



## tahnak

The premiere of Tchaikovsky's E Flat Major Seventh Symphony was given by the Moscow Philharmonic under Terian on 7th February 1957. The American premiere was given by the Philadelphia Orchestra under Eugene Ormandy in 1962. The symphony was completed from sketches of Tchaikovsky by Semyon Bogatyryev who was a Russian composer and Professor at the Moscow Conservatory. Bogatyryev was born in 1913. He has composed two operas, two symphonies and a cantata. It took him about ten years to orchestrate from the sketches left by Tchaikovsky. He completed the work in 1956.


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## tahnak




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## techniquest

I have the Ormandy recording on CBS vinyl; very interesting piece and so different from the 6th.


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## moody

techniquest said:


> I have the Ormandy recording on CBS vinyl; very interesting piece and so different from the 6th.


The only problem is that Tchaikovsky said of it : The impression it produces is far from flattering in a word, the symphony was written just for the sake of writing something ,and contains nothing interesting or appealing . I have decided to scrap it and forget about it."
But of course you knew this because the above comes from the recordings sleeve note.
I bought it when it first came out and I must say that I agree with the composer's verdict.
At least we got the third piano concerto out of it.


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## david johnson

i also have the ormandy recording, and one by jarve with the pno con 3. both are a fun listen, nothing deep.


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## Ravndal

moody said:


> The only problem is that Tchaikovsky said of it : The impression it produces is far from flattering in a word, the symphony was written just for the sake of writing something ,and contains nothing interesting or appealing . I have decided to scrap it and forget about it."
> But of course you knew this because the above comes from the recordings sleeve note.
> I bought it when it first came out and I must say that I agree with the composer's verdict.
> *At least we got the third piano concerto out of it*.


Well........


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## Ukko

moody said:


> The only problem is that Tchaikovsky said of it : The impression it produces is far from flattering in a word, the symphony was written just for the sake of writing something ,and contains nothing interesting or appealing . I have decided to scrap it and forget about it."
> But of course you knew this because the above comes from the recordings sleeve note.
> I bought it when it first came out and I must say that I agree with the composer's verdict.
> At least we got the third piano concerto out of it.


Yep, it's a loser. That concerto derivative ain't much better.


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## joen_cph

Concerning the rather harsh criticism of the symphony I must agree; not very interesting IMO.

But the 3rd Piano Concerto is better though, for instance in the completed version recorded by Ponti, which at least has sufficient drive in it.

Is the 3rd then ( 



 ) better than Tchaikovsky´s also lesser known "Concert Fantasy" for piano and orchestra ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr7nGKcUrig; here with Pletnev)

Difficult to say. The 3rd Concerto has a good first movement, a bit more modern-sounding, slightly Bartokian (Bartok´s 1st Concerto at times !). The Concerto Fantasia, almost as simple as the ballet music, has a beautiful slow movement ...


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## Ukko

joen_cph said:


> Concerning the rather harsh criticism of the symphony I must agree; not very interesting IMO.
> 
> But the 3rd Piano Concerto is better though, for instance in the completed version recorded by Ponti, which at least has sufficient drive in it.
> 
> Is the 3rd then (
> 
> 
> 
> ) better than Tchaikovsky´s also lesser known "Concert Fantasy" for piano and orchestra ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr7nGKcUrig; here with Pletnev)
> 
> Difficult to say. The 3rd Concerto has a good first movement, a bit more modern-sounding, slightly Bartokian (Bartok´s 1st Concerto at times !). The Concerto Fantasia, almost as simple as ballet music at times, has a beautiful slow movement ...


I am unmoved by either of them. I think of them as things that, had he the Brahmsian will to dustbin failed compositions, we would never have heard.


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## joen_cph

Concerning the ""Concerto Fantasia, this is pretty OK, methinks: 



 (now Mewton-Wood, in an old recording. Not sophisticated, or in any way "polished" - but very folksy and quite Russian-sounding )


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## Tristan

For some reason I really like that part from 3:15-3:30 or so in the first part of the first movement; it sounds good in the piano concerto version as well.


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## Novelette

moody said:


> At least we got the third piano concerto out of it.


And thank goodness for the little Third Piano Concerto: perhaps not his best work, but sometimes it pleases. It's a pity that so many people seem only to know the B Flat Minor Concerto, when there are two others and a Concert Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra.

I was unaware of this Seventh Symphony reconstruction. It's interesting, but not so substantial as symphonies 4 - 6, imo.


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## Novelette

Hilltroll72 said:


> I am unmoved by either of them. I think of them as things that, had he the Brahmsian will to dustbin failed compositions, we would never have heard.


The Concert Fantasy is not a particularly weighty piece, I agree. The first movement, especially, seems only good for some creative bravura passages. Little else.


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## moody

Novelette said:


> And thank goodness for the little Third Piano Concerto: perhaps not his best work, but sometimes it pleases. It's a pity that so many people seem only to know the B Flat Minor Concerto, when there are two others and a Concert Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra.
> 
> I was unaware of this Seventh Symphony reconstruction. It's interesting, but not so substantial as symphonies 4 - 6, imo.


Yes,but I am sure you are aware that the awful Siloti version of the Second Concerto should be avoided like the plague---ruins everything.


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## Guest

Much like Beethoven's 10th. I listened to it once and didn't think much of it.


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## bigshot

It's most interesting to hear the Philadelphia strings under Ormandy. Did he allow free bowing like Stoki? Sounds like it.

By the way, that third movement sounds like a telephone ringing over and over in an empty house.


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## Tristan

^The third movement is actually just an orchestration of Op. 72, No. 8 "Scherzo-Fantasie" for solo piano, orchestrated by Bogatyrev.

And I know this reconstructed work of Tchaikovsky's is not very well-received, but I have to admit I do like the very end of the Andante and Finale, Op. 79 (a.k.a. third movement of Piano Concerto No. 3 a.k.a. fourth movement of "Symphony No. 7"). The very last few bars are reminiscent of Sleeping Beauty (No. 20 - Le Reveil) in my mind, at least. I also like the heroic march tune in the finale as well.


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## Novelette

moody said:


> Yes,but I am sure you are aware that the awful Siloti version of the Second Concerto should be avoided like the plague---ruins everything.


The version that I have is performed by Mikhail Pletnev: Philharmonia Orchestra. It's quite good, in my opinion.


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## moody

Novelette said:


> The version that I have is performed by Mikhail Pletnev: Philharmonia Orchestra. It's quite good, in my opinion.


Yes,but is it the original--if it is the slow movement is like a mini concerto for cello and violn and is around 20 minutes long.


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## Skilmarilion

joen_cph said:


> But the 3rd Piano Concerto is better though...


Since the 7th symphony was scrapped and the 3rd PC unfinished, I think it's impossible to judge either fairly. I have only heard the latter, which I thought had one of those wonderfully Russian, romantic themes so typical of Tchaikovsky, but offered very little else. It lacks direction, and the piano seems a part of the orchestra throughout.

Quite clearly it is very weak compared to the first two.



moody said:


> Yes,but is it the original--if it is the slow movement is like a mini concerto for cello and violn and is around 20 minutes long.


That slow movement for piano trio is one of my favourite movements of any concerto. Simply beautiful.


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## elgar's ghost

Any kind of completion in a situation such as this is castles in the air territory. Nonetheless, it take a great composer for anyone to feel sufficiently compelled to make the effort in the first place.


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## Celloman

I absolutely refuse to listen to that piece.


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## moody

Celloman said:


> I absolutely refuse to listen to that piece.


Good for you I say !


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## Bix

Celloman said:


> I absolutely refuse to listen to that piece.


I think I will not listen to it either, maybe another time, far far away.


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## moody

Bix said:


> I think I will not listen to it either, maybe another time, far far away.


You don't mean....Blackpool ??!!


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## mtmailey

Well it does not sound as great as the symphonies 4,5,6 but i still like it though the finale is my favorite.
View attachment 21286


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## Bix

moody said:


> You don't mean....Blackpool ??!!


Which one, Lancashire or Dublin?


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