# Second Sibelius cycle



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Have fallen in love with this composer via my Berglund/Bournemouth set...







... and would now like to hear a second take on the symphonies.

Something slightly different to this set might be good - be that more powerful, more icily Nordic, whatever. (Not sure quite where Berglund/Bournemouth sits on the Sibelius-ometer. Slightly cool and dispassionate, I fancy).
Names coming up for me are Ashkenazy, Davis (which cycle?), Rattle, Blomstedt, Segerstam, P Jarvi, Vanska, Sanderling...
I'd quite like a cycle with the odd extra, though not too fussed. And I'd quite like a good version of Symphonies 3 and 6, my favourites.
Throw names at me...? 
Thank you!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Actually, are 3 and 6 my favourites? Not sure. I love 4 and 5 too, and most of 2, and am growing to love 7. 
Perhaps I mean that, being rather soft and subtle ones, 3 and 6 might be the easiest ones to slightly miss the mark with. 
6 in particular has a certain atmos ("when shadows lengthen, JS labelled it)...


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

*Vänskä*

My favourite so far!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

omega said:


> *Vänskä*
> 
> My favourite so far!


Can you say more (why)? Thanks!


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

Steve Wright said:


> Can you say more (why)? Thanks!


Oh, yes...
3 good reasons to listen to Vänskä conducting Sibelius :
1) Osmo Vänskä conducts a rather "cold" Sibelius, not a romantic one: he stresses what it so original and unique about Sibelius' writing. There are some unusual tempi chosen (beginning of the 3rd movement in Lemminkäinen ; 2nd movement of Kullervo), but nothing I find irrelevant. A Finnish conductor conducting a Finnish composer: it is really worth it.
2) BIS recordings often have very good sound; here, it is the case.
3) The cycle has the original version of the 5th (it is interesting to have a listen to it!), Lemminkäinen, the Violin Concerto, and some tone poems.

Maybe some other members have a more detailed analysis; I have not heard many full Sibelius cycles, but this one remains my favourite so far.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Another vote for Vänskä here too. The set on Naxos conducted by Pietari Inkinen is also highly thought-of by many.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I vote Leif Segerstam, he is so much more an organic Sibelius conductor, where Vänske is a literal one (who in my eyes don't see the music for all the notes) and the Sound quality the Ondine releases is a good as anything Bis! As an alternative, Neeme Järvi's old Bis cycle is also of the organic type, the best one ever released by this label!

/ptr


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I bought Vanska's versions of the symphonies as part of a cheap download, but had problems with it when listening on headphones as a result of the extreme dynamic range (a quality that some reviewers admire). This may be significant for you, depending on your stereo system and listening preferences.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Bernstein/Sony would be a very marked and passionate contrast. Likewise the old Karajan/Kamu set, which includes Tapiola etc.

As regards the recorded sound, these aren´t among the best, though, if you´re into that.

I´ve got the Rozhdestvensky, Karajan/Kamu, Ashkenazy, Vänskä, Davis/philips, Bernstein/sony sets, plus various supplementary recordings, and I skipped Abravanel & Maazel/decca.

Haven´t heard either Järvi, or Segerstam.


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> Bernstein/Sony would be a very marked and passionate contrast. Likewise the old Karajan/Kamu set, which includes Tapiola etc.


Let me endorse this. I have both sets and are excellent choices. A nice contrast between both.
As an historical reference, I advice to listen/learn about Kajanus records.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

shadowdancer said:


> Let me endorse this. I have both sets and are excellent choices. A nice contrast between both.
> As an historical reference, I advice to listen/learn about Kajanus records.


Barbirolli/Halle is also excellent. The British had a special affinity for Sibelius, and Sir John was right up there


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

I heard also from an interview with Sir Simon Rattle that he (Rattle) considered E. Ormandy a great Sibelius conductor. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to listen Ormandy's Sibelius.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Ormandys Sibelius spans many decades. IMO, the mono around 1955-60 is the best period, judging from what I heard. But I don´t get the famous 4+5 th symphonies coupling, I find that release fairly conventional.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

There are so many great Sibelians I think. But now I'll second Barbirolli/Hallé. It's the one I've been recently listening to and never deceives me.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I do like the sound of both Segerstam and Vanska for some icy Nordic blasts. 
And Karajan and the beautiful Berlin strings; and Barbirolli for some good old Anglo-Finnish romanticism. 
Maazel/Vienna also seems well reviewed, as do Blomstedt/SFSO and Rattle/CBSO. 
Both my Music ref. books steer me towards Ashkenazy/Phil and Davis/various. 
I have never heard Bernstein's conducting, and perhaps Sibelius is the place to do so.
Whew!
If I lean towards Vanska, I'd be tempted by this (come payday):


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

PS A small but not insignificant part of the fun here is that - appropriately enough given the beauty and pictorial qualities of S's music - much of the album artwork is so gorgeous...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

More Scandinavian splendour. And some cranberries (I am guessing).


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> Bernstein/Sony would be a very marked and passionate contrast. Likewise the old Karajan/Kamu set, which includes Tapiola etc.
> 
> As regards the recorded sound, these aren´t among the best, though, if you´re into that.
> 
> ...


Is the DG set the one to get, out of Karajan's three complete or partial Sibelius cycles? I.E. over 50s Philharmonia and 70s BPO/EMI? Booth get good reviews - including sound quality, for the latter...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I haven´t heard enough of the EMi material to judge sufficiently. The EMI set has some very enthusiastic fans here and it could very well be better overall. The EMI and DG series don´t comprise the same works. Ideally, one should have both sets, I guess.

As for the early mono Philharmonia I haven´t heard that, but was disappointed with some other of his recordings from that period.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

This set was recently bought for me
I have not heard them all but have really enjoyed performances of the first 4 so far.
A bargain set from a reliable Sibelius conductor with critical approval


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Vanska's _Kullervo_ drives me up the wall because of its extremely slow tempi. There are a couple of pauses which are so long that I involuntarily check to see if the equipment has failed!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Haydn man said:


> View attachment 70414
> 
> This set was recently bought for me
> I have not heard them all but have really enjoyed performances of the first 4 so far.
> A bargain set from a reliable Sibelius conductor with critical approval


Thanks! Yes, I've had my eye on that one too. Do you have other Sibelius cycles, and if so how does this compare?


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## FLighT (Mar 7, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks! Yes, I've had my eye on that one too. Do you have other Sibelius cycles, and if so how does this compare?


I second this suggestion, as well as Askenazy's most recent set on the Exton label:




























I have Askenazy's early set on on Decca as well with the Philharmonia and like his muscular approach, boldly recorded. Jarvi on DG is very good also if a bit less intense. The first set I ever purchased was Berglund on EMI which is serviceable for me. DG released a short set by VK with 4 through 7 , Der Schwan, and Tapiola. (I think both his 4 and 7 are tough to beat but the sonics are dated and over bright to my ears).


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

FLighT said:


> I second this suggestion, as well as Askenazy's most recent set on the Exton label:
> 
> View attachment 70444
> View attachment 70445
> ...


Yes, I like the look of the Jarvi because I would also like to get to know the tone poems better. My Berglund/Bournemouth set has a few.
HvK (partial) sets - I am wondering if the later, BPO/EMI set is the one to go for - better sound?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

I also like the look of this set, which is very well reviewed and comes out near the top in a few reviewers' selections. 







But I wonder if it's a little too close in style to my Berglund/Bournemouth set - i.e. somewhere in the middle, between 'warm' Bernstein/Karajan and 'cold' Vanska/Jarvi (correct me if I am on the wrong track here...)?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

OK, well I went for Karajan (and Kamu) in the end. 







I seem to read a lot about what magic he creates with 4, 5 and 6, which are probably - by a whisker - my top three (though all seven are wonderful). 
In particular, I can tell that the whimsical, mysterious number 6 is going to be a big part of my life from hereafter, and I will probably want to collect numerous versions to see what different conductors do with it. I find it endlessly fascinating.

I have read varying reports of Kamu's 2, so I have supplemented the above set with this, from Karajan's earlier Philharmonia career - including, I gather, a fine 2:








Lastly, Simon Rattle seems to divide folks a little but his cycle gathers top mentions in a few roundups I have read. I already have his 5 (paired with Kennedy's Violin Concerto) and I have now bought the rest of the set, cheap as very cheap chips, second-hand on Marketplace. Again, his 6 comes highly praised, which is a big draw for me.








Whew! That's enough Sibelius collecting for a little while. Davis, Ashkenazy etc remain on the radar. I hope my Berglund set still sees some action. I am sure it will.
Thanks for all your input,
S


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

BTW, the late Davis LSO is very controversial. I really like Karajan in the DG 6th.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> BTW, the late Davis LSO is very controversial.


Interesting. How so?
Reactions to those 3 Davis sets seem to perfectly illustrate the endless variations in people's responses to music: each set has its admirers and detractors, with the middle LSO/RCA set coming off perhaps least well...? 
The Arkivmusic site gives it a recommended star... and then includes a very withering comment on it, in its page on the LSO Live set. All quite confusing... and quite fun.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> BTW, the late Davis LSO is very controversial. I really like Karajan in the DG 6th.


I agree. The comparison is very telling, I think--for me the superiority of the HVK is evident right from the very first note!

*p.s.*



Steve Wright said:


> The Arkivmusic site gives it a recommended star... and then includes a very withering comment on it, in its page on the LSO Live set. All quite confusing... and quite fun.


Haha--too true. It should always go without saying that almost all the cds we're praising and savaging are performed by world-class musicians, and that apparent differences in quality are often just differences in taste. But the extremist rhetoric shows we all care, imo.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> It should always go without saying that almost all the cds we're praising and savaging are performed by world-class musicians, and that apparent differences in quality are often just differences in taste.


Good point, sometimes forgotten. 


Blancrocher said:


> But the extremist rhetoric shows we all care, imo.


Another good point!


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I've listened to many different versions of the Sibelius symphonies and have done sessions where I have compared six or seven different recordings back to back but the ones I keep coming back to are Vanska and Segerstam. I'd also note that the Gibson with the Royal Scottish Orchestra set was my first exposure to Sibelius and has a place in my heart and I enjoy it a whole lot.

Kevin


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Kevin Pearson said:


> ... the ones I keep coming back to are Vanska and Segerstam.


Yes, I hear consistently high praise for both of those. I group them with the Jarvi set - Nordic conductors with, I imagine, a Nordic sensibility; much-praised; relatively more expensive than the rest of the bunch.

I think I'll ask one or more of these sets for my birthday. Rattle, Karajan/Kamu and Berglund will keep me amply satisfied till then. Oh, and a 6 and 7 by Sakari/Iceland, which I've only listened to once but seems quite beguiling.


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## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks everyone! I do like the sound of both Segerstam and Vanska for some icy Nordic blasts.
> And Karajan and the beautiful Berlin strings; and Barbirolli for some good old Anglo-Finnish romanticism.
> Maazel/Vienna also seems well reviewed, as do Blomstedt/SFSO and Rattle/CBSO.
> Both my Music ref. books steer me towards Ashkenazy/Phil and Davis/various.
> ...


Hey man - I cannot endorse that Vanska Essential Sibelius set enough - real desert island set. Its so vast, and the quality across the board is pretty stunning overall. Lemmenkainen, Symphonies 5 and 7, etc are just as good as it gets to my ears. As for the dynamic range, yes its very true, super wide - but cranked on a decent system can be totally thrilling. 10/10 in my book.


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