# Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata and Mozart



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Did Beethoven model one of the Mvt.'s from a Mozart Sonata? I just listened to a Mozart sonata and the intro sounded just like the Pathetique.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It would help if you told us which Mozart sonata and post clips of the two movements. They're probably both on YouTube.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> It would help if you told us which Mozart sonata and post clips of the two movements. They're probably both on YouTube.


haha, I was hoping it would be known already. I'll try to find it again and post the youtubes.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

It's Movement II of the Pathetique Sonata.






I'll try to find the Mozart now.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I found this on Wiki:

"Prominent musicologists debate whether or not the Pathétique may have been inspired by Mozart's piano sonata K. 457, since both compositions are in C minor and have three very similar movements. The second movement, "Adagio cantabile", especially, makes use of a theme remarkably similar to that of the spacious second movement of Mozart's sonata.[4] However, Beethoven's sonata uses a unique motif line throughout, a major difference from Haydn or Mozart's creation.[2]"


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Start at about 3:18.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Could be. Beethoven was studying Mozart pretty intensively about that time (1798). The first three notes and their harmonic implications are pretty much the same. After that, nothing similar that I can hear. Mozart, the great melodist, was snookered by Ludwig in this case.

The _Pathetique _was a mega-hit in Vienna, a status I don't think Mozart's sonata ever achieved. A review:

"This well-written sonata is called _Pathetique _with justification, since it certainly has a passionate character. The A-flat major Adagio, which should never be played in a dragging style, is filled with beautifully-flowing melodiousness and also with modulation and good movement. The soul is wrapped in calm and comfort. From this it is re-awakened by the Rondo's first Allegro note, so that the main feeling on which the sonata is based is carried through. This gives the sonata unity and inner life and thus real aesthetic value....

"It is known that the Viennese public shows much enthusiasm for music and warmly supports it. It must be pleased that it can call many excellent artists their own. Herr van Beethoven is one of these, and we hope that he will enrich us with many more products of his genius and diligence."


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I think it's too alike for there to be any other reason. I imagine that Beethoven studied the score and referred to it in his great sonata. And it's only a reference, and not a copy. He's taken an idea and brought it elsewhere in a wonderful way.

So did this bloke (the chorus, about 58 seconds in):


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Kieran said:


> I think it's too alike for there to be any other reason. I imagine that Beethoven studied the score and referred to it in his great sonata. And it's only a reference, and not a copy. He's taken an idea and brought it elsewhere in a wonderful way.
> 
> So did this bloke (the chorus, about 58 seconds in):


Wow! Thanks for sharing that.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also think there is a Haydn Symphony that Beethoven modeled the intro of his first Symphony from but can't recall which symphony it is...any help?


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