# Camille Saint-Saëns



## Mirror Image

Camille Saint-Saëns was something of an anomaly among French composers of the nineteenth century in that he wrote in virtually all genres, including opera, symphonies, concertos, songs, sacred and secular choral music, solo piano, and chamber music. He was generally not a pioneer, though he did help to revive some earlier and largely forgotten dance forms, like the bourée and gavotte. He was a conservative who wrote many popular scores scattered throughout the various genres: the Piano Concerto No. 2, Symphony No. 3 ("Organ"), the symphonic poem Danse macabre, the opera Samson et Dalila, and probably his most widely performed work, The Carnival of The Animals. While he remained a composer closely tied to tradition and traditional forms in his later years, he did develop a more arid style, less colorful and, in the end, less appealing. He was also a poet and playwright of some distinction.

Saint-Saëns was born in Paris on October 9, 1835. He was one of the most precocious musicians ever, beginning piano lessons with his aunt at two-and-a-half and composing his first work at three. At age seven he studied composition with Pierre Maledin. When he was ten, he gave a concert that included Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto, Mozart's B flat Concerto, K. 460, along with works by Bach, Handel, and Hummel. In his academic studies, he displayed the same genius, learning languages and advanced mathematics with ease and celerity. He would also develop keen, lifelong interests in geology and astronomy.

In 1848, he entered the Paris Conservatory and studied organ and composition, the latter with Halévy. By his early twenties, following the composition of two symphonies, he had won the admiration and support of Berlioz, Liszt, Gounod, Rossini, and other notable figures. From 1853 to 1876, he held church organist posts; he also taught at the École Niedermeyer (1861-1865). He composed much throughout his early years, turning out the 1853 Symphony in F ("Urbs Roma"), a Mass (1855) and several concertos, including the popular second, for piano (1868).

In 1875, Saint-Saëns married the 19-year-old Marie Truffot, bringing on perhaps the saddest chapter in his life. The union produced two children who died within six weeks of each other, one from a four-story fall. The marriage ended in 1881. Oddly, this dark period in his life produced some of his most popular works, including Danse macabre (1875) and Samson et Dalila (1878). After the tragic events of his marriage, Saint-Saëns developed a fondness for Fauré and his family, acting as a second father to Fauré's children.

But he also remained very close to his mother, who had opposed his marriage. When she died in 1888, the composer fell into a deep depression, even contemplating suicide for a time. He did much travel in the years that followed and developed an interest in Algeria and Egypt, which eventually inspired him to write Africa (1891) and his Piano Concerto No. 5, the "Egyptian". He also turned out works unrelated to exotic places, such as his popular and most enduring serious composition, the Symphony No. 3.

Curiously, after 1890, Saint-Saëns' music was regarded with some condescension in his homeland, while in England and the United States he was hailed as France's greatest living composer well into the twentieth century. Saint-Saëns experienced an especially triumphant concert tour when he visited the U.S. in 1915. In the last two decades of his life, he remained attached to his dogs and was largely a loner. He died in Algeria on December 16, 1921.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

Truly a gifted pianist, organist, and a great composer. It's shame more people don't listen to him more.


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## andruini

I was looking at my CDs the other day, and I suddenly realized, Saint-Saëns is maybe one of the composers I've got more recordings of.. And this happened totally unconsciously.. It just seems that many of his pieces are often used as "filler" in other composer's CDs.. Not to say he's not a great composer, though.. I love the Piano Concertos, the Requiem and the Mass, Op. 4..


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## Mirror Image

andruini said:


> I was looking at my CDs the other day, and I suddenly realized, Saint-Saëns is maybe one of the composers I've got more recordings of.. And this happened totally unconsciously.. It just seems that many of his pieces are often used as "filler" in other composer's CDs.. Not to say he's not a great composer, though.. I love the Piano Concertos, the Requiem and the Mass, Op. 4..


Thanks to conductors like Jean Martinon and Charles Dutoit, who were excellent Saint-Saens conductors, we have more than mere "fillers." These conductors were dedicated to his works.

Anyway, many months ago I was pretty disgusted with Saint-Saens. I found him too whimsical or something, then I sat down and listened to his Piano Concertos, which are serious pieces of work. They blew me away! I own two sets of his Piano Concertos: Roge/Dutoit and Collard/Previn.


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## andruini

I own the Collard/Previn too.. It's really great.. In fact, tomorrow I'm seeing Collard play the 2nd with the OFUNAM in Mexico City.. They're also playing Dukas, Fauré and Roussel. Should be a great concert!


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## Mirror Image

andruini said:


> I own the Collard/Previn too.. It's really great.. In fact, tomorrow I'm seeing Collard play the 2nd with the OFUNAM in Mexico City.. They're also playing Dukas, Fauré and Roussel. Should be a great concert!


That's cool. Kind of a French night, eh? Well, that should be good. Dukas, Faure, Saint-Saens, and Roussel are rarely played.


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## BuddhaBandit

I've never been much into SS (except for the Organ Symphony), though I've begun to appreciate his music more. It's always seemed a tad "light", and Carnival of The Animals is a big negative for me. But I've recently re-listened to the piano concertos and the five symphonies, and I've been struck by some of the passages. Maybe he'll grow even more on me in a year or so.


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## Weston

I always enjpy his work when I hear it, but he is one of those composers whose melodies seldom stick with me. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of the music is beautiful anyway. 

I remember hearing a Saint-Saens piece that used harmonics in a violin. What I mean by that is the practice, usually associated with guitar, of not pressing the string all the way down at certain harmonic points along it to get an overtone or harmonic of the open string note. It is a lovely, mysterious effect I couldn't identify at first until someone (in another forum I think) pointed out to me what it is. I was familiar with harmonics on a guitar, but it never occurred to me you could do this on other stringed instruments as well. 

I wish I could remember what piece it is, maybe a violin concerto of Saint-Saens'?


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## Taneyev

Third v.c..second movement uses harmonics on a beautiful dialogue between the violin and the clarinet.
Paganini used a lot ot harmonics on his works. They are extremely difficult to play on tune.


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## Mirror Image

Weston said:


> I always enjpy his work when I hear it, but he is one of those composers whose melodies seldom stick with me. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of the music is beautiful anyway.
> 
> I remember hearing a Saint-Saens piece that used harmonics in a violin. What I mean by that is the practice, usually associated with guitar, of not pressing the string all the way down at certain harmonic points along it to get an overtone or harmonic of the open string note. It is a lovely, mysterious effect I couldn't identify at first until someone (in another forum I think) pointed out to me what it is. I was familiar with harmonics on a guitar, but it never occurred to me you could do this on other stringed instruments as well.
> 
> I wish I could remember what piece it is, maybe a violin concerto of Saint-Saens'?


Have you heard his "Danse Macabre"? That melody will stick in your head for days.


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## Taneyev

Yes, it's a short symphonic poem with a hunting theme. Rachel Barton-Pine made a fantastic arrangement for
violin and piano.


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## Faenval

I've always liked his Danse Bacchanale from Samson and Delilah.


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## Taneyev

All his chamber are worthty. His first violin sonata is IMO one of the most beautiful of the romantic style. If you can, get any of the 2 Heifetz's recordings. A marvel!


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## Mirror Image

Taneyev said:


> All his chamber are worthty. His first violin sonata is IMO one of the most beautiful of the romantic style. If you can, get any of the 2 Heifetz's recordings. A marvel!


Taneyev, you should definitely here Saint-Saens' piano concertos. You will be blown away by them. They are that good. Trust me.

It's okay to get your head out of the chamber sometimes and listen to some orchestral works.


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## Taneyev

I know, I know; but with nearly a thousend CDs of chamber instrumental , I've not time for other stuff.


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## Sid James

This was an interesting article. I wasn't aware of the tragic circumstances of the death of his children...

Saint-Saens is a composer who impressed me very much in my teenage years. His _Organ Symphony _was one of the first pieces I saw live in concert. I also had some of his Piano Concertos & _Carnival of the Animals_. Today, I'm not really a big fan of him. I've moved on to composers like his pupil at the Paris Conservatoire, Edgard Varese. From what I've heard they didn't like eachother. Saint-Saens was critical of the younger generation like Varese, Ravel, Debussy, etc.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> This was an interesting article. I wasn't aware of the tragic circumstances of the death of his children...
> 
> Saint-Saens is a composer who impressed me very much in my teenage years. His _Organ Symphony _was one of the first pieces I saw live in concert. I also had some of his Piano Concertos & _Carnival of the Animals_. Today, I'm not really a big fan of him. I've moved on to composers like his pupil at the Paris Conservatoire, Edgard Varese. From what I've heard they didn't like eachother. Saint-Saens was critical of the younger generation like Varese, Ravel, Debussy, etc.


I could see why he would be critical of Verese.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I could see why he would be critical of Verese.


Well the feeling was mutual, Varese as a 20 year old student said to Saint-Saens "I have no desire to become an old powdered wig like you!" As the article suggests, Saint-Saens became very conservative in his older years. He was highly critical of the younger generation, and didn't offer them any positive guidance, only put-downs. A big contrast to really great teachers like Busoni, I think.

& I recall that Ravel was also highly critical of Saint-Saen's work during WWI. He said something to the effect that while men were servicing howitzers on the front, Saint-Saens was detatched in his own little world, composing salon and silent film music.

Whatever Saint-Saen's (earlier) contribution to music was, eg. developing freer approaches to the concerto and symphony, as you suggested above, he really became a crotchety old grumble-bum in old age...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well the feeling was mutual, Varese as a 20 year old student said to Saint-Saens "I have no desire to become an old powdered wig like you!" As the article suggests, Saint-Saens became very conservative in his older years. He was highly critical of the younger generation, and didn't offer them any positive guidance, only put-downs. A big contrast to really great teachers like Busoni, I think.
> 
> & I recall that Ravel was also highly critical of Saint-Saen's work during WWI. He said something to the effect that while men were servicing howitzers on the front, Saint-Saens was detatched in his own little world, composing salon and silent film music.
> 
> Whatever Saint-Saen's (earlier) contribution to music was, eg. developing freer approaches to the concerto and symphony, as you suggested above, he really became a crotchety old grumble-bum in old age...


 I like that Ravel quote, then again, I like any Ravel quote. 

Anyway, I admire Saint-Saens not for the person he was or how reacted towards the younger generation, but for the way he stuck to his own virtues and beliefs in music no matter what the newer generation said or what the critics continued to say.

He's a great composer and I like his music.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I like that Ravel quote, then again, I like any Ravel quote.
> 
> Anyway, I admire Saint-Saens not for the person he was or how reacted towards the younger generation, but for the way he stuck to his own virtues and beliefs in music no matter what the newer generation said or what the critics continued to say.
> 
> He's a great composer and I like his music.


I'll try to dig up the Ravel quote & post it here later, it was from a library book I borrowed, as was the Varese quote...

Well I agree that Saint-Saens made important contributions to the symphony & concerto in France. Even though he publicly was sceptical of Liszt, I think those works show the freer forms & flexibility of that composer. Again, _Carnival of the Animals _has quite a few moments that sound pretty impressionistic (eg. aquariums), even though he was on record as being against that type of music. So maybe he struggled with the issue, should I follow the radicals or be more conventional? This is interesting...

& what about the thing he said at the premiere of Stravinsky's _Rite of Spring_. Something like 'that's a buffoon not a bassoon.' Absolutely hilarious!


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I'll try to dig up the Ravel quote & post it here later, it was from a library book I borrowed, as was the Varese quote...
> 
> Well I agree that Saint-Saens made important contributions to the symphony & concerto in France. Even though he publicly was sceptical of Liszt, I think those works show the freer forms & flexibility of that composer. Again, _Carnival of the Animals _has quite a few moments that sound pretty impressionistic (eg. aquariums), even though he was on record as being against that type of music. So maybe he struggled with the issue, should I follow the radicals or be more conventional? This is interesting...
> 
> & what about the thing he said at the premiere of Stravinsky's _Rite of Spring_. Something like 'that's a buffoon not a bassoon.' Absolutely hilarious!


Yeah, I heard he said something to that effect at the premiere of "The Rite.." It's interesting that he would stand up and say that and walk out. I guess he had very little confidence in the younger generation huh? 

Anyway, I still like his music a lot, in particular, "Danse Macabre," all of his concertos, "Symphony No. 3 (Organ)," "Phaeton," and "Marche héroïque in E flat."


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Taneyev said:


> Yes, it's a short symphonic poem with a hunting theme. Rachel Barton-Pine made a fantastic arrangement for
> violin and piano.


Gil Shaham plays a version that is supposed to be by Saint-Saens himself.


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## ecg_fa

I like Saint-Saens a lot. I too very much loved his Organ Symphony when I started 
listening to classical music (about age 10/11) & still one of my faves. I think his piano
concertos are underrated and great too. For those I like a lot recordings by Charles Dutoit & Orch. de la Suisse Romande with Jean-Yves Thibaudet and also two albums with Anna Malikova (Russian pianist I like very much in general), Thomas Sanderling conducting the WDR Symphony Orchestra of Cologne. And Samson and Delilah has beautiful 
music-- some of the songs too also the piano trios are great. Carnival of the Animals is great fun really too-- if maybe not something I want to hear that often . 

Ed


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## Aramis

Anyone heard his operas? Are they any good, worth of listening? Any recommendations for first one to check out and for recordings?

He wrote quite much of operas so I guess at least he had to enjoy them.


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## Romantic Geek

One would guess you have to start with Samson and Delilah. I reckon that is his most famous opera...but correct me if wrong.

I thought his Havanaise had some of the most interesting violin passages I've ever heard, including a chromatic double-stop run at the end of the piece. It was pretty cool to hear, especially right after hearing the Mendelssohn violin concerto.


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## CaptainAzure

Saint-Saens is always a delight to listen to, the symphonies, the violin and piano concertos, his Danse Macabre and the fantastic Introduction and Rondo get regular play in the Azure household.


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## regressivetransphobe

I enjoy him despite his general lightness and conservatism, the problem is I can't say his name without sounding faux-French.


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## Couchie

Romantic Geek said:


> One would guess you have to start with Samson and Delilah. I reckon that is his most famous opera...but correct me if wrong.


The Bacchanale in Samson et Dalila, more fun than the one in Tannhäuser!


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## regressivetransphobe

Even if you don't like his music, you gotta admit he looked pretty balla.


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## Reinhold

Saint-Saëns was a very influential French composer of the mid-late Romantic era who produced countless magnificent works.

He is known especially for The Carnival of the Animals, Danse Macabre, Samson and Delilah, Piano Concerto No. 2, Cello Concerto No. 1, Havanaise, Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso, and his Symphony No. 3 (Organ Symphony), and some lesser-known instrumental concertos.

His music embodies some very interesting French styles, especially in his later works, when he neared his compositional apex, with grand compositions and a resentment for earlier 19th century Romanticism style quite opposite of his contemporaries such as Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel.


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## Pip

Saint-Saens was a regular visitor to the first Bayreuth Festivals and the impression Wagner made on him can be heard in many passages of "Samson et Dalila", especially the link music between scenes. There is almost a quote from the opening of Die Walküre in the orchestral passage after Samson has his hair cut.
It is a tremendous opera with some wonderful music, none better than Dalila's two arias and her duet with Samson.
I have never heard the Dalila music sung better than by Callas.
I enjoy virtually all of his music, especially the visceral pleasure of cranking up the loudspeakers in the last movement of the organ symphony, which is a wonderful fantasia on the Bach's "Eine Feste Burg", and letting it rip!


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## elgar's ghost

I'm especially fond of his chamber output, particularly pleasing are the three wind sonatas he composed near the end of his life.


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## Aramis

Pip said:


> I have never heard the Dalila music sung better than by Callas.


I certainly have. Callas could sing some mezzo-arias very well, but for each of them I'd rather have true mezzo voice.

I didn't find that much Wagner in _Samson_ myself, I think it's quite original and French.


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## Manxfeeder

I've just discovered his five piano concertos. They're a lot of fun.


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## Reinhold

Aramis said:


> I certainly have. Callas could sing some mezzo-arias very well, but for each of them I'd rather have true mezzo voice.
> 
> I didn't find that much Wagner in _Samson_ myself, I think it's quite original and French.


Personally, I find it to be a good mix of late Romantic French and a early Wagnerian style.


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## Vaneyes

This thread bumped as a* note to Mods (or science) to merge the two Saint-Saens threads*. :tiphat:


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## Mahlerian

Reinhold said:


> a resentment for earlier 19th century Romanticism style quite opposite of his contemporaries such as Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel.


...both of whom were outspoken anti-Romantics...


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## Reinhold

Mahlerian said:


> ...both of whom were outspoken anti-Romantics...


Let me rephrase that:

"a resentment for earlier 19th century Romanticism style; which is a style quite opposite of his contemporaries such as Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel."


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## Cadenza

SS's third symphony, the _Organ_, can sustain me for an entire afternoon while I fiddle in my woodshop. I can play it over and over, and never tire of it. That is unique to the several hundred complete pieces of orchestral music I own.


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## Rocco

My favorite work of his is Carnival of the Animals. Very nice work!


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## Vaneyes

Cadenza said:


> SS's third symphony, the _Organ_, can sustain me for an entire afternoon while I fiddle in my woodshop. I can play it over and over, and never tire of it. That is unique to the several hundred complete pieces of orchestral music I own.


Terrific work. Which recording(s) do you like? My preference is Bastille/Chung. OSM/Dutoit probably next. :tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

ClutchDisc said:


> My favorite work of his is Carnival of the Animals. Very nice work!


Any favorite recordings?


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## Il_Penseroso

Yesterday i was listening to the ballet music from Henry VIII, less known opera and perhaps overshadowed by his more famous works, but great music full of haunting energic melodies!

I love also his Allegro appassionato for piano, it deserves more attention as a big concert hit in piano recitals...



Vaneyes said:


> Any favorite recordings?


My favorite is Suddeutsche Philharmonic conducted by Alberto Lizzio.


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## Cadenza

My favorite recording of the Organ symphony is by Charles Muench and the Montreal Symphony. They achieved a range of dynamics I don't hear in other recording that really give it punch and texture.


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## Il_Penseroso

Two threads 'Camille Saint-Saëns' in the sub-forum, well, one with a sign of emotionics! :lol: somebody - from moderators - merge the two ones please! I came across this one today and got shocked: hey, i just replied to this thread yesterday and there were 3 pages as far as remember, so what happened!?


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## KenOC

Il_Penseroso said:


> Two threads 'Camille Saint-Saëns' in the sub-forum, well, one with a sign of emotionics! :lol: somebody - from moderators - merge the two ones please! I came across this one today and got shocked: hey, i just replied to this thread yesterday and there were 3 pages as far as remember, so what happened!?


I think a guy with two surnames deserves two threads. No?


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## Reinhold

Yes; At the time I made this thread, the other thread was at least 5 or 7 pages back, with the last post in 2011, as I have just checked.


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## Funny

Manxfeeder said:


> I've just discovered his five piano concertos. They're a lot of fun.


 The second movement of his 5th is one of my favorite pieces of music, not least because of its dramatic opening with the insistent offbeats - the first few bars of the piano's entrance are deliciously arrogant, reminding me of a frizzy-haired 1970s guitar god taking a solo.


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## Rocco

Vaneyes said:


> Any favorite recordings?


Not really, I only have two recordings of it.


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## AClockworkOrange

What has pulled me into Saint-Saens is his Chamber work - the Piano Trios/Quartets/Quintets, the String Quartets.

Previously, I was aware of one of his Violin Concertos and Piano Concertos and of course the Carnival… but it wasn't until I began exploring Chamber Works that I became really interested in Saint-Saens. 

I have since started to explore his orchestral work too and I am very impressed with what I have heard so far.


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## Funny

The organ symphony has always been one of my top favorites. Such ingenious organic construction out of one basic melody, and so perpetually listenable. Also I consider his piano concertos among the best ever written.

In terms of the crotchety-old-man thing, it's not an uncommon phenomenon for the young firebrand to turn, over time, into the old guard, but in defense of some of Saint-Saens' vitriol let's recall that he was working in France, where the march of tradition is especially revered, and had helped put his country on the map as a player in the supposedly "Germanic" forms of symphony and other serious works. Then along comes his own countryman, Debussy, impudently rejecting the whole underlying premise of 18th- and 19th-century music and generating a huge shift in aesthetics, and I would say an unprecedented one in France. Had to sting pretty hard, no?


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## Rocco

Funny said:


> The organ symphony has always been one of my top favorites. Such ingenious organic construction out of one basic melody, and so perpetually listenable. Also I consider his piano concertos among the best ever written.


I need to listen to his organ symphony again. Thanks for the reminder!


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## science

Some of my favorite Saint-Saens disks:


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## Vaneyes

*Saint-Saens *Symphony 3 gets Tom Service's nod. I agree with the Chung recording recommendation (DG, 1991).

http://www.theguardian.com/music/to.../symphony-guide-saint-saens-organ-tom-service


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## hpowders

I would go with Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony, an irresistible combo in French music and sensational in the Organ Symphony by Saint-Saens.


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## AH music

Like so many, the only Saint-Saens I knew for a long time was the Carnival of the Animals, and then another long period with just the addition of the Organ Symphony (which I like very much). Then a scattering of pieces like the Danse Macabre. Only later the decision to investigate more symphonies and concertos etc. There are two rarely mentioned of these that are now real favourites of mine - Symphony no 1, Op 2 (Martinon) and Piano Concerto no 4 (Collard/Previn) which is now probably my favourite piano concerto of all (I mean the whole piano concerto genre, not just those of SS). Anyone else out there with a particular liking for either of these? Still plenty more to discover, quite like the trios but not really listened to much of the chamber music yet.


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## Vaneyes

AH music said:


> ....There are two rarely mentioned of these that are now real favourites of mine - *Symphony no 1, Op 2 (Martinon) and Piano Concerto no 4 (Collard/Previn)* which is now probably my favourite piano concerto of all (I mean the whole piano concerto genre, not just those of SS). *Anyone else out there with a particular liking for either of these? * Still plenty more to discover, quite like the trios but not really listened to much of the chamber music yet.


EMI's got a lot of mileage out of the Martinon symphonies set...reissued several (or more) times. Slightly less so for the Collard PCs set, which only relinquished some market share when Roge/Dutoit (Decca) appeared.

Owning all at one time or another, with assorted others...I've now settled on Chung's "Organ Symphony", and Thibaudet/Dutoit's PCs 2 & 5. They get frequent play, along with Concerti from Kantorow/Bakels, Isserlis/MTT/Eschenbach, and chamber music from Nash Ensemble. :tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl

I am wondering why I cannot find a complete set of Saint-Saens' works on Amazon (or elsewhere), you know the kind where you get some 40, 50, 60 or more discs in a box.


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## KenOC

Florestan said:


> I am wondering why I cannot find a complete set of Saint-Saens' works on Amazon (or elsewhere), you know the kind where you get some 40, 50, 60 or more discs in a box.


Maybe this will do for the time being. About ten hours, mostly from the BIS label, fine recordings and performances. Cheap! Read the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/99-Most-Essen...1859&sr=1-1&keywords=99+essential+saint-saens


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## Dave Whitmore

I just read through this thread and now I want to hear more of SS's music. I noticed his piano concertos and his organ symphony get a lot of mentions so I know what I'll be listening to over the next couple of nights. I owned an LP of Peter and the Wolf when I was a teen. I lost that one years ago though.


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## Marschallin Blair

Dave Whitmore said:


> I just read through this thread and now I want to hear more of SS's music. I noticed his piano concertos and his organ symphony get a lot of mentions so I know what I'll be listening to over the next couple of nights. I owned an LP of Peter and the Wolf when I was a teen. I lost that one years ago though.


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## Dave Whitmore

Marschallin Blair said:


>


Nice! I can see a couple in there I'd like to get.


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## SixFootScowl

I am currently enjoying this one I just purchased. It has all three violin 
concertos and about 9 other pieces for violin and orchestra (2 CDs):


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## SixFootScowl

KenOC said:


> Maybe this will do for the time being. About ten hours, mostly from the BIS label, fine recordings and performances. Cheap! Read the reviews.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/99-Most-Essen...1859&sr=1-1&keywords=99+essential+saint-saens


Very nice, but only digital download from what I can see. But yes, the price is excellent for 99 tracks.


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## KenOC

Florestan said:


> Very nice, but only digital download from what I can see. But yes, the price is excellent for 99 tracks.


Yes, that's exactly what it is. 256K VBR MP3s. Originally 99 cents when I got it! It has my favorite Organ Symphony.


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## SixFootScowl

KenOC said:


> Yes, that's exactly what it is. 256K VBR MP3s. Originally 99 cents when I got it! It has my favorite Organ Symphony.


Looks like it has about everything Saint Saens I would need for a long time. Just have to get past that old school mentality of a disc in hand with inserts.


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## Mahlerian

Dave Whitmore said:


> I owned an LP of Peter and the Wolf when I was a teen. I lost that one years ago though.


That was by Prokofiev, not Saint-Saens; perhaps you're confusing it with Carnival of the Animals?


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## Dave Whitmore

Mahlerian said:


> That was by Prokofiev, not Saint-Saens; perhaps you're confusing it with Carnival of the Animals?


probably. My teenage years were a long time ago lol


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## hpowders

Dave Whitmore said:


> probably. My teenage years were a long time ago lol


You want to hear "long ago"? Oh well....never mind!


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## SixFootScowl

KenOC said:


> Yes, that's exactly what it is. 256K VBR MP3s. Originally 99 cents when I got it! It has my favorite Organ Symphony.


How does the download work? Is it a zip file? Does it go to the Amazon Cloud? If a zip file, can I open it on a Linux operating system? I just might do it. Keep me from spending a lot of money on CDs and I can give the Violin concertos e-files to my son since I have the nice CD set.


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## SixFootScowl

Ha, look at this. Search Amazon digital music for 99 most essential <composer> and they have these for many composers. Look there is a nice deal for 99 most essential Mendelssohn at $2.69!

If only I were a digital junkie!


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## Troy

Saint-Saens has recently become one of my favourite composers. I've always loved the 3rd Symphony and the Carnival of the Animals. I enjoyed the unique textures and amazing sound worlds that still remain completely tonal.

A few years ago I heard the first Violin Sonata and the Piano Concertos for the first time and fell in love with the varied Piano writing. Within the last year I've found the Requiem (so beautiful), the Piano Quartet in Bflat, the Piano Quintet, as well as the Oboe, Clarinet and Bassoon Sonatas. 

I so look forward to my first hearing of the Mass and the other Symphonies as well as more chamber works and so much more to discover. I am quite literally trembling with anticipation.


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## breakup

try this,


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## breakup

Have you ever heard of this guy?


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## breakup

Or this guy?






Seems a bit slow, but I'll need to listen a few times.


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Has anyone seen/heard his operas? (Other than _Samson et Dalila_.)

_Henry VIII _is first-rate. Dramatically strong; sharp characterisation; and beautiful music. The full opera is here: 




Highlights include:
The magisterial Synode scene:





The final quartet:





The Act I finale:





For the rest…
_Étienne Marcel _is available from the House of Opera
A 1960 recording of _Phryné _is available on YouTube
The Palazzo Bru Zane has recorded _Les Barbares _
_Hélène _is commercially available on Amazon
Extracts from _Déjanire _are available from Opera Passion

No recordings of _Le timbre d'argent_, _La princesse jaune_, _Proserpine_, _Ascanio_, _Frédégonde_ or _L'ancêtre_.

This is an excellent article on his operas.

And he used to entertain Tchaikovsky by performing _Carmen _in drag.


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## Figleaf

^ Great post, and thanks for all the links! I'd been looking for that Phryné without success, but this just goes to show one should never give up!

Steven Huebner's book 'Wagnerism, Nationalism and Style: French Opera at the Fin de Siecle' piqued my interest in Henry VIII, and I bought the DVD on Florestan's recommendation. Wood has seen it too, so that makes at least four of us here who have experienced the opera.  I don't like the music nearly as much as that of Samson et Dalila, apart from Henry's aria 'Qui donc commande'. (Magnificently recorded by Jean Noté, although he always sounded like a sexy bit of rough rather than a dignified monarch...) At the risk of sounding like an utter philistine (no pun intended) Samson is wonderful because it is stuffed with great tunes from start to finish, whereas Henry VIII doesn't have much you can hum. It's still exciting and dramatic though, and that 1991 video is a very good performance as well as a good looking production. Philippe Roussillon doesn't quite have the exciting high notes needed for Henry's music, but he has an attractive mellow baritone and really looks the part. Michele Command is authoritative and queenly, and it was interesting to see the aged Gérard Serkoyan as the bloke from the Vatican, as I had no idea he was still singing as late as the 1990s. Alain Gabriel also sang and acted very well, and Lucile Vignon was believable as Anne even though I don't think she was chosen for the quality of her singing.


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## SixFootScowl

SimonTemplar said:


> Has anyone seen/heard his operas? (Other than _Samson et Dalila_.)
> 
> _Henry VIII _is first-rate. Dramatically strong; sharp characterisation; and beautiful music. The full opera is here:


I have that opera on DVD with English subtitles and highly recommend it. It is excellent!


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Le timbre d'argent and Proserpine will be performed in 2016-17. (http://operacritiques.free.fr/css/index.php?2016/04/13/2784-chateau-de-versailles-2016-2017)


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## CDs

Just finished listening to the Organ Symphony by Karajan for pretty much the first time. I also have the Piano Concerto set by Charles Dutoit and Pascal Rogé, which I like.

















Couple of questions. How do these two CDs stack up? Are there better versions? Also what is a good Symphony set by Saint-Saens?


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## bfBrian

Saint Saens is in fact my favorite composer, but my favorite pieces are not the typical favorites. I don't care much for Carnival of the Animals (except the Swan), and the 3rd Symphony is my least favorite of all his symphonies (Urbs Roma being my favorite). Other favorites include both piano trios; the 2nd, 4th, and especially the 5th piano concerto. Also Danse Macabre and Introduction et Rondo Capriccioso. Oh, and the Tarantelle is incredibly infectious: I can listen to that on repeat for a good while. Also, that's the piece that Rossini supposedly made others believe he had written, only to reveal Camille as the composer after those in attendance stated their praise.

Contrary to what others have stated, the melodies Camille wrote stick in my head better than those of any other composer. For me, he perfectly balances writing for intellect and emotion. I rarely (if ever) feel moved by music that is purely emotional. It just fails to grab me, instead passing over me without effect. On the other hand, music for the intellect alone may grab my interest, but often fails to keep it, and never leaves a lasting impact.

Interestingly, to my ears, Saint Saens wrote in many different styles, sometimes mixing styles within the same piece. As a result, he has no certain style of his own to be remembered for. Instead, I remember him for writing pieces at, or near the pinnacle in each style, and doing so with amazing consistency. It makes it a lot of fun to celebrate his body of work.


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## eljr

bfBrian said:


> Saint Saens is in fact my favorite composer, but my favorite pieces are not the typical favorites.


Which of his works and recording would you recommend?


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## bfBrian

eljr said:


> Which of his works and recording would you recommend?


Since you appreciate high quality audio, the first thing I'd recommend to you is the piano trios on hyperion:
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67538

The piano concertos with Roge and Dutoit on Decca (mentioned in CDs post above) are wonderfully played, and pretty well recorded.

Dutoit has many more favorites recorded on Decca. I like his version of Danse Macabre best, mostly due to his choice of tempos. The same goes for the Rondo Capriccioso with Kyung Wha Chung.

For the symphonies, there aren't many options except for the 3rd which is everywhere. Jean Martinon on EMI is pretty good. They captured a bit more room reverb than I find ideal, but others may like it that way.

For the 3rd Symphony, I like Eugene Ormandy on Telarc best, though the Dutioit on Decca isn't far behind. I have read that others use that as a demonstration disc. Personally, I find the background noise level just a little too high for that... and like I said, the 3rd isn't my favorite. I have used the hyperion piano trios as a demonstration disc.

I have the Tarantella with Simon on Cala, which is nice. The recording of Africa on the same disc with Gwendolyn Mok is also very nice. I think that one's hard to find though.


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## eljr

bfBrian said:


> For the 3rd Symphony, I like Eugene Ormandy on Telarc best, .


Ordered it yesterday, listening to it now. 

I have the piano trio in my cart.


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## Anankasmo

bfBrian said:


> Saint Saens is in fact my favorite composer, but my favorite pieces are not the typical favorites. I don't care much for Carnival of the Animals (except the Swan), and the 3rd Symphony is my least favorite of all his symphonies (Urbs Roma being my favorite). Other favorites include both piano trios; the 2nd, 4th, and especially the 5th piano concerto. Also Danse Macabre and Introduction et Rondo Capriccioso. Oh, and the Tarantelle is incredibly infectious: I can listen to that on repeat for a good while. Also, that's the piece that Rossini supposedly made others believe he had written, only to reveal Camille as the composer after those in attendance stated their praise.
> 
> Contrary to what others have stated, the melodies Camille wrote stick in my head better than those of any other composer. For me, he perfectly balances writing for intellect and emotion. I rarely (if ever) feel moved by music that is purely emotional. It just fails to grab me, instead passing over me without effect. On the other hand, music for the intellect alone may grab my interest, but often fails to keep it, and never leaves a lasting impact.
> 
> Interestingly, to my ears, Saint Saens wrote in many different styles, sometimes mixing styles within the same piece. As a result, he has no certain style of his own to be remembered for. Instead, I remember him for writing pieces at, or near the pinnacle in each style, and doing so with amazing consistency. It makes it a lot of fun to celebrate his body of work.


Welcome to Talkclassical.

I am excited to meet another Saint-Saens fan! He is my favourite composer also. How did you come to like his music if I may ask? I also strongly agree with what you have written considering S-S high quality output. While there are certainly pieces which lack inspiration one finds so many gems and the technical quality is always superb and quite innovative. This makes exploring his Oeuvre quite thrilling and fun 

One of my favourites:






or this which is quite unknown


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## bfBrian

Anankasmo said:


> Welcome to Talkclassical.
> 
> I am excited to meet another Saint-Saens fan! He is my favourite composer also. How did you come to like his music if I may ask? I also strongly agree with what you have written considering S-S high quality output. While there are certainly pieces which lack inspiration one finds so many gems and the technical quality is always superb and quite innovative. This makes exploring his Oeuvre quite thrilling and fun


Of all the musical eras, I prefer the romantic era best. So I put together a romantic era station on pandora, seeding it with Grieg and Mussorgsky, and several others. Whenever I heard a piece of music that I liked, I'd pay attention to who the composer was. I realized that I kept liking music from Saint Saens. That prompted me to search out more of his music. I did the same with several other composers, but none composed as many favorites as SS.



Anankasmo said:


> One of my favourites:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this which is quite unknown


Thanks for sharing. My personal preference is for orchestral music rather than singing, but of course Saint Saens was incredibly versatile. How did you become interested in his works?


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## Anankasmo

bfBrian said:


> Thanks for sharing. My personal preference is for orchestral music rather than singing, but of course Saint Saens was incredibly versatile. How did you become interested in his works?


I also did like orchestral music the best but as i got to know S-S output i found so many gorgeous vocal music gems which i really liked. Favourites would be La Lyre et la Harpe, his magnificent Oratorio de Noel or his Requiem. I really love S-S melodies which got a new release 2 years ago. Those orchestral songs are as great as Strauss 4 letzte Lieder


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## bfBrian

If anyone knows where to find a bust of Saint Saens, please let me know.


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## KenOC

bfBrian said:


> If anyone knows where to find a bust of Saint Saens, please let me know.


Best I can do is a picture of one.


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## Sid James

I've been reading Arthur Hervey's book on Saint-Saens (originally published in 1922).

Its interesting how his eclecticism was in some critics' eyes a weakness. He absorbed so many influences, most importantly his contemporaries Schumann, Berlioz, Liszt, Gounod and of course past masters such as Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Ideology also entered the picture, at one time he was accused of being too much of a Wagnerite, at another of not being sufficiently so. He was judged to be overly scientific, foreshadowing what many said (and still say) about music of the 20th century.

In answering these criticisms, Saint-Saens said he was all these things and more:

"Not only do I not deny him [Wagner], but I glory in having studied him and profited by him, as it was my right and my duty. I have done the same as regards Sebastian Bach, Haydn, Beethoven, Mozart and all the masters of all the schools. I do not on that account consider myself obliged to say of each one of them that he alone is god and that I am his prophet. In reality, it is neither Bach, nor Beethoven, nor Wagner whom I love; it is art. I am an eclectic. This is perhaps a great defect, but it is impossible for me to correct it: one cannot alter one's nature."

"A musician is asked to hide his science. Now, what is meant by science in his case is simply talent, and when one has got any it is to use and not to put in one's pocket."

Also interesting are Saint-Saens' thoughts on progress in music, not least in regards to the perennial debates on this forum:

"Progress does not mean amelioration, but progression, that is to say, motion; ...in moving one always leaves something behind, while one gains other things in front of one, and it happens often enough that what one has lost was worth more than what one has gained."

"What shocks people today will not shock them tomorrow, which is equivalent to saying that one can get accustomed to anything."

"The real sense of the word progress - progressus - is march forward, but this does not say to what goal."

In looking back one hundred years or more, these issues are still controversial, even though postmodernism has discarded linear views of progress which Saint-Saens suggests. Most would say that the modernist war has been played out. Nevertheless his words are prophetic because they crystallize the ideological battles in music which continued and reached their peak in the 1950's.

To conclude, there's a good quote by Gounod who I think summed up Saint-Saens very well:

"Saint-Saens possesses one of the most astonishing musical organizations that I know. He is a musician armed with every weapon. He possesses his art like no one else; he knows the masters by heart; he plays with and makes light of the orchestra as he plays with and makes light of the piano, which says everything. He is neither finicking, nor violent, nor emphatic. He has no system, he belongs to no party, to no clique; he does not pose as a reformer of anything; he writes as he feels and with what he knows."


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## joen_cph

Wearing fashionable dress at home ...


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## Janspe

Did Rostropovich ever perform and/or record the 2nd concerto? He played the 1st one a lot but I can't seem to find any info regarding his opinions concerning the less popular one.


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## moscheles

Sometime in 2018 I heard the first two symphonies of Saint-Saëns and liked them both enough to keep going back to them. This was my first interaction with any of his music.

In the last month I have just discovered his five piano concertos. I feel like a kid again! I don't know why I have never heard these works in my life. I am infatuated, and scrambling to get as many recordings as I can scrounge.

This is what I have discovered so far. Romain Descharmes recently recorded concertos 1,2,4 and 5 under NAXOS label. Bertrand Chamayou recorded 2 and 5 this year. The acoustics on the Chamayou are the best acoustics I've heard in any recording of the 2nd concerto, at least with headphones on. I haven't yet tried them in my car yet. It almost sounds like you are laying inside the piano bed.


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## moscheles

(Maybe I need to make a new thread about this but) I guess what would do next is try to describe what these five concertos sound like in words. The first thing that pops out is the density of the orchestration. The orchestration reminds me of Brahms' symphonies. There are chromatic piano tricks that sound like Chopin, and the slow movements sound like proto-Rachmaninov. There are experimental portions which are "weirdly" out-of-place for late romantic music, and almost border on 20th-C minimalism. 

I will eventually isolate these weird portions when I get around to following them with the sheet music. I will report back here with my findings, (unless there is a more appropriate thread)


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## flamencosketches

I've only heard a couple of them, but I totally agree that they are amazing, inventive works of art. If you are interested in more historical recordings, Artur Rubinstein did a great performance of the 2nd concerto for RCA. There is another CD I want to get with the young soloist Alexandre Kantorow performing the last 3 concerti, just came out this year. Finally there is a complete set with Aldo Ciccolini as soloist and Serge Baudo conducting the Orchestre de Paris. I have a feeling this is the one to get! I also have the complete set with Pascal Rogé, Charles Dutoit and various London orchestras, but I have not been listening to it due to a bad taste in my mouth with the conductor, though it is also good. You've piqued my interest on that Naxos set, but I am a Naxos fiend.


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## cougarjuno

I haven't heard the Roge / Dutoit set which by all accounts is excellent. I have the Hyperion set with Stephen Hough and Oramo conducting Birmingham which is also a worthy addition.


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## Rogerx

cougarjuno said:


> *I haven't heard the Roge / Dutoit set which by all accounts is excellent.* I have the Hyperion set with Stephen Hough and Oramo conducting Birmingham which is also a worthy addition.


I agree, but Kantorow and Chamayou are top on the moment, that said, don't forget Jean-Philippe Collard /Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, André Previn.
Bargain price and well worth having.


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## flamencosketches

cougarjuno said:


> I haven't heard the Roge / Dutoit set which by all accounts is excellent. I have the Hyperion set with Stephen Hough and Oramo conducting Birmingham which is also a worthy addition.


That one sounds great too from the samples I've heard. Wow, we're getting to be spoiled for choice with these works. This is pretty major repertoire in the piano concerto genre.


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## Chatellerault

I own two sets of Saint-Saëns: Collard/Previn and Malikova/Sanderling. I'm satisfied with them both.

I also like the live 1993 recording of he 5th with Richter/Eschenbach. Richter was past his prime and the CD (Saint-Saëns coupled with Gershwin's Concerto) got some bad reviews but to me Richter's swing - for Gershwin - and tenderness - for Saint-Saëns middle movement, the pièce de résistance of the 5th - make it a surprising and entertaining live album.


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## flamencosketches

Chatellerault said:


> I own two sets of Saint-Saëns: Collard/Previn and Malikova/Sanderling. I'm satisfied with them both.
> 
> I also like the live 1993 recording of he 5th with Richter/Eschenbach. Richter was past his prime and the CD (Saint-Saëns coupled with Gershwin's Concerto) got some bad reviews but to me Richter's swing - for Gershwin - and tenderness - for Saint-Saëns middle movement, the pièce de résistance of the 5th - make it a surprising and entertaining live album.


Richter playing Gershwin  I'll have to hear that. I think Saint-Saëns concerti are right in his wheelhouse too. He is always great at injecting deep pathos into music that is somewhat on the more objective, elegant side of things, like Haydn, Mozart and Bach.


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## AeolianStrains

Not sure if this deserves a new thread, but I was listening to the Introduction to Henry VIII, and it strongly reminded me the old American Civil War song When Johnny Comes Marching Home. Does anyone know if this was coincidental or intentional? Or am I imagining a connection?

Link for comparison:


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## Roger Knox

Taneyev said:


> I know, I know; but with nearly a thousend CDs of chamber instrumental , I've not time for other stuff.


The Saint-Saëns second Piano Quartet in B-Flat Major is outstanding!


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## Superflumina

There's something really special about the first movement of his 3rd piano concerto.


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## Animal the Drummer

I just bought the Chamayou recording and have more reservations about his approach than most seem to have had. His technique is mightily impressive but some of his interpretations came across to me as somewhat mannered, especially in the solo pieces where, for example, parts of the "Etude en forme de valse" seem to me to wander away from its triple time signature altogether.


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## Rogerx

*October 9th*



1835 Camille Saint-Saëns, French composer


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## bfBrian

I have uploaded many remastered recordings of pieces composed by Saint-Saëns to my youtube channel. I love his music so much that I am inspired to do everything I can to optimize the sound of the recordings. This often means noise reduction and adjustments to the spectral balance. On occasion it means editing out page turns or other extraneous sounds. Since I put in the effort to satisfy myself, I figured I might as well share, and celebrate the works of this musical genius.

Urbs Roma:





Danse Macabre:





5th piano concert:





When applicable, check the description for a link to the next movement.

You can also find the 3rd symphony, Piano Etude Waltz OP52, and Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso.


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## SixFootScowl

Saint-Saens' symphonies rank very high in my book. Just below Beethoven and alongside of Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff.

I saw an Amazon review where the reviewer referred to Saint-Saens as "The French Mendelssohn." Anybody ever heard that? Does it fit? Both produced symphonies in their early teens, but then so did a number of other composers so I would think.


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## MusicSybarite

SixFootScowl said:


> Saint-Saens' symphonies rank very high in my book. Just below Beethoven and alongside of Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff.
> 
> I saw an Amazon review where the reviewer referred to Saint-Saens as "The French Mendelssohn." Anybody ever heard that? Does it fit? Both produced symphonies in their early teens, but then so did a number of other composers so I would think.


He's seen like the French Mendelssohn because basically both were prodigy childs, yet their styles are pretty different from each other.


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## SixFootScowl

MusicSybarite said:


> He's seen like the French Mendelssohn because basically both were prodigy childs, *yet their styles are pretty different from each other*.


That is a good thing, as it gives us even more variety.

So we could also refer to Mendelssohn as the German Saint-Saens, excepting it is out of chronological sequence.


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## gvn

I agree that Mendelssohn and Saint-Saëns were very different in _style,_ yet in _temperament_ I've always felt that they were very closely akin.

Both of them highly valued gracefulness, good taste, refinement, elegance, sensitivity, balance. Both of them were highly cultured, civilized, upholders of tradition; perhaps no two composers have ever had such a broad-based appreciation of the other arts--one feels that it would have been as interesting to hear them talking about literature or painting as about music, and offhand I can't think of any other composer who gives me that feeling. (Stravinsky, certainly, but in quite a different way, and for quite different reasons.)

For some reason, both of them have had their very fluency and gracefulness held against them. There seems to be a feeling that they had craftsmanship but not genius; that their music is all head and no heart--or, worse still, all penmanship and no heart. I'm not sure why.

Saint-Saëns lived much longer than Mendelssohn and continued to compose with Mendelssohnian fluency even in extreme old age, so a much larger proportion of his music is neglected than of Mendelssohn's. I'd be ashamed to say how many years I listened seriously to music before I discovered his Christmas Oratorio, or his two string quartets--works that now seem to me among the great treasures of their era. I suspect there are dozens of excellent S-S works that haven't yet been recorded, even to this day.

It's a shame that his centenary comes at a time when there's so little music-making around the world. Under any other circumstances, there would surely have been some wonderful revelations this year.


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## SixFootScowl

gvn said:


> Saint-Saëns lived much longer than Mendelssohn and continued to compose with Mendelssohnian fluency even in extreme old age, so a much larger proportion of his music is neglected than of Mendelssohn's.


I have a 50-CD Mendelssohn complete set (most complete sets are not completely complete though), but searching online, I am sad to report that there apparently is no "complete" set for Saint-Saens.


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## gvn

SixFootScowl said:


> I have a 50-CD Mendelssohn complete set (most complete sets are not completely complete though), but searching online, I am sad to report that there apparently is no "complete" set for Saint-Saens.


Yes, I fear it will be a very long time before anyone produces even an "incompletely complete" S-S set. The catalogue still lacks 4 of his operas, for instance. I hoped there would have been a recorded concert of his last opera, _Déjanire,_ somewhere in the world this year, and a concert or studio recording of his last oratorio (which he set in English), _The Promised Land._

Ah well. When is the next centenary of his birth? 2035? Maybe a "complete Saint-Saëns" set will be achievable then.


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## mparta

I learned to love him late. The symphonies are fine, but...

Piano quintet, out of this world

5th Piano concerto-- lucky enough to have heard Thibaudet play this live. Of course the 2nd is a warhorse.

Learned Samson et Dalila late but have much affection for it. Henry VIII i have heard but not given it its due. Have the Timbre d'argent, yet to listen.

In general, the Hyperion chamber music box is pretty good. I just listened to a first Violin Sonata by Capucon/Chamayou today on a new disc of that, the first cello sonata and a piano trio. Not finished yet but into the cello sonata and like it.

Consistently well crafted, almost always melodic and memorable, cultured. What's not to like?

The septet with trumpet is sort of kooky and very attractive.

And I think there's more to discover, which is a wonderful thing


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## Olias

This might have been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but here is a real interesting resource on the music of S-S:

https://saintsaenscomplete.wordpress.com


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## flamencosketches

I found this at Goodwill yesterday. It's surprisingly great! The oboe and clarinet sonatas are beautifully lyrical.


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## Merl

It took me a while to appreciate Saint-Saens too but after conquering the symphonies I really got into the string quartets, which are real growers.


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## gvn

mparta said:


> The septet with trumpet is sort of kooky and very attractive.


Perfect description!


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## Forster

*Saint-Saëns: unfashionable, underrated - and overdue for reappraisal*

Article in today's Guardian by Stephen Moss:

Saint-Saëns: unfashionable, underrated - and overdue for reappraisal

I was interested in this point:



> "I produce music as an apple tree produces apples," [Saint-Saëns] once said.
> 
> Whether that was a boast or a statement of fact is beside the point. What matters is that it has been held against him by critics who want their artists to be sculpting from a slab of suffering.


Instead of arguing that great music can be written by composers who've _not _'sculpted from a slab of suffering', Moss just presents evidence that Saint-Saëns did suffer in his lifetime.


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## Olias

Forster said:


> Instead of arguing that great music can be written by composers who've _not _'sculpted from a slab of suffering', Moss just presents evidence that Saint-Saëns did suffer in his lifetime.


That bothered me too. It's the same type of rhetoric used to justify slamming the music of Haydn, Mendelssohn, Dvorak, and others as lacking gravitas because of the relative lack of suffering in their lives. Composition is a craft, a learned skill, and the result of hard work, not suffering.


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## Neo Romanza

I enjoy a lot of Saint-Saëns' music and what he may lack in emotional depth, he makes up for in elegance and beautifully written melodies, harmonic color, etc. He was particularly effective in orchestral music as he had a remarkable ear for sonorities, but his chamber music is just as rewarding (I don't know any of his solo piano music, songs, operas or choral music). I own quite a bit of his music, but I'm definitely going to be picking this up in October:


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## Chatellerault

SixFootScowl said:


> I saw an Amazon review where the reviewer referred to Saint-Saens as "The French Mendelssohn." Anybody ever heard that? Does it fit? Both produced symphonies in their early teens, but then so did a number of other composers so I would think.


Coming late to this discussion... I've not seen this comparison before but it makes sense to me.

Both were composing in what' known as the Romantic period (Mendelssohn is from the generation of Chopin, Schumann, Liszt; Saint-Saëns from the same as Tchaikovsky and Grieg).

Yet, their music seems less sentimental and quite grounded on Bach's tradition. (Something similar could be said about Brahms, but I shall not enter that terrain).

For example, concerning performance practices, Saint-Saëns seems to be in a certain school of French pianism (including his pupil Isidor Philipp and younger artists such as Youra Guller, Guiomar Novaes, Nikita Magaloff) that played Romantic music with less exagerated rubato and more respect to the written score. The other main branch of French pianism from the early 20th century, indulging in several pianistic liberties, is best represented in the recorded legacy of Alfred Cortot and Samson François.

Anyway, Saint-Saëns (born 1835) was one of the oldest pianists to be recorded. Rather than accept my own categories of "French pianists", you should listen to his rolls on Youtube:

[video]Saint-Saëns plays Chopin (Nocturne - Op. 15, No. 2)[/video]


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## Anankasmo

For all interested in this great composer and who are able to understand German there is a great great documentary about Saint-Saens on the Youtube channel Irgendwas mit Arte und Kultur. Since Arte is also French i guess the documentary is also available somewhere in French.

But even without understanding German there are many great pictures of Saint-Saens which are probably from the Dieppe archive. Highly recommended.


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## Rogerx

https://classica.stingray.com/en/NL/featured/saint-saens-100th-death-anniversary
Brava/ Stingray tv has lots of programs in memory of the composer's who passed away 100 years ago


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## Dan Ante

I just noticed this thread was started by my old mate mirror image if by any chance you are lurking "Merry Xmas" :wave:


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