# Quartets, quintets, sextets, octets...



## Naccio

What do these styles and methods of music vary and add to the ear, what makes them impressive and unique in their own way?


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## Alypius

Before launching into this, it would be helpful to know which quartets, quintets, sextets, and octets you are familiar with. Which ones to do you have in mind? I've got to say that your question is extremely complicated. Have you studied the respective genres at all? Do you read music? Can you follow a more technical musicological analysis? How you answer those questions would shape, I believe, how people will respond to your question.


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## Naccio

Hi Alypius. I love classical music and have heard what I might determine as a taste and common knowledge of classical music, no speciality nor too deep on technical terms yet, I'm open to different eras in my interest, from baroque to avant, I want to know the adjectives of style and intrinsic qualities and characteristics these mediums were made for, pardon the ingenuity, I'm just curious intelligently I may say, but not a wiz at all,, I don't read music and am open to reading analysis and appreciation, I've read Copland's intro book, oh I don't know, hopefully it creates some interest. Thank you best regards


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## Alypius

Naccio said:


> Hi Alypius. I love classical music and have heard what I might determine as a taste and common knowledge of classical music, no speciality nor too deep on technical terms yet, I'm open to different eras in my interest, from baroque to avant, I want to know the adjectives of style and intrinsic qualities and characteristics these mediums were made for, pardon the ingenuity, I'm just curious intelligently I may say, but not a wiz at all,, I don't read music and am open to reading analysis and appreciation, I've read Copland's intro book, oh I don't know, hopefully it creates some interest. Thank you best regards


Naccio, Your comments help give me a sense of where you're coming from. Before launching into any analysis, comparison / contrast between those different genres, it seems important to start with the repertoire. Get to know as many of each as you possibly can. At a later juncture, maybe, you can do some reading and broader analysis of the differences between the various genres and the composers who work in them. In a sense, you need to know the "database." Broad generalizations are not of much use if one doesn't know the repertoire, the "data."

In your listing, you left out "trios" in the title of the thread. Trios are no less important than the others. Almost all of these genres come in two major instrument groupings: string trios & piano trios; string quartets & piano quartets, etc. Combining the piano to string groupings is a challenge compositionally because the piano can dominate and overshadow the strings. That said, some of the best chamber works of the last two centuries have been piano trios, quartets, and quintets. Let me start with piano trios. First, here's two wikipedia links, one describing the genre, the other with a complete listing of examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_trio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_trio_repertoire

*PIANO TRIOS*:

*Beethoven* has 11. The two most famous have nicknames: "Ghost" (#5 in D major, op. 70, no. 1) and "Archduke" (#7 in B flat, op. 97). You'll recognize the melody of the latter. A classic performance is by the Beaux Arts Trio, and they are available as a reasonably priced box set. Also excellent is the Florestan Trio. One new performance that has caught my eye (so I don't own it yet) is by Isabel Faust, Jean-Guihen Queyras, and Alexander Melnikov; they perform only #6 and #7 (the Archduke); what makes theirs interesting is their use of authentic instruments from the period.










*Ravel & Faure*: For me one of the finest chamber works in the whole repertoire is Maurice Ravel's _Piano Trio in A_. This deserves a whole post for itself, but I'll hold off until another time. For the moment, just get it and listen to it and drink it the lush melodies and savor Ravel's exquisite craftsmanship. Gabriel Faure was his teacher, and Faure, while best known for his _Requiem_, was an extraordinarily gifted chamber music composer. More on that in a moment. Both of these are available on a performance by the Florestan Trio (on Hyperion). There is also an exceptional performance of the Ravel by violinist Renaud Capucon, his brother and cellist Gautier Capucon, and pianist Frank Brailey.










*Brahms*: Brahms has three piano trios. All are excellent, but #1 is for me the most moving. You may recognize the melody of the first movement. Quite famous. There are many fine performances of these. Here I recommend Renaud Capucon, Gautier Capucon, and this time Nicholas Angelich on piano:










I've left off other great ones: Dvorak has four (esp. #4 "Dumky"); Schubert has three; Schumann has two. In the 20th century, Joaquin Turina has two numbered ones and a late one called "Circulo"; Shostakovich has a pair.

I'll post a parallel post on string trios tomorrow.


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## brotagonist

Naccio said:


> What do these styles and methods of music vary and add to the ear, what makes them impressive and unique in their own way?


These genres vary the number of musicians that perform a piece. They add immeasurable variety to the ear, not only in the immense number of pieces that have been written, but also in adding instrumental combinations. I find these combinations to be impressive from the listener's standpoint, as they permit listening to a simplified, more easily followed format. The choice of instruments can make the interplay between the instruments appear unique.


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## Alypius

As I have been looking over this section of the forum, this thread might better dwell in the "Solo & Chamber Music" section as the threads in this region seem more oriented to the concerns of string performers rather than recordings and repertoire.

Perhaps the mods might want to move it. I'll save my recommendations on string trios, piano & string quartets and piano & string quintets for later in case this thread ends up elsewhere. The piano trio post above will be enough to get Naccio started.


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## Alypius

*STRING TRIOS*

As promised, here's some recommendations on string trios. The string trio may have somewhat fewer masterpieces than the other genres. It comes in several varieties: violin-viola-cello; 2 violins-viola; 2 violins-cello. Where to start? Given your fondness for Mozart and Beethoven, probably best to start there:

*Mozart:* Andrew Clement, music critic of _The Guardian_, writes: "Mozart's E flat Divertimento K563 is arguably the greatest work ever composed for string trio. Yet recordings of it seem to come along infrequently, and truly outstanding versions are even rarer, with the generally recommended version, by the Grumiaux Trio on Philips, now over 40 years old."










*Beethoven:* Beethoven, here as elsewhere, has wonderful works. Like his piano trios, these are among his earlier works -- and so are much less adventurous than his string quartets. Stephen Pritchard, also of _The Guardian_, has noted of Beethoven's three string trios, opus 9: "These three Opus 9 trios present a fascinating picture of the young Ludwig, bursting with ideas and an impatient desire to take a musical form born as the baroque trio sonata and breathe bold new Beethovian life into it. But as striking as they are they nevertheless represent a last gasp for a format that would soon be eclipsed by the string quartet."










Lots of major composers have one or more, especially among 20th century and contemporary composers: Zoltan Kodaly, Albert Roussel, Anton Webern, Bohuslav Martinu, Ernst Krenek, Paul Hindemith, Carlos Chavez, Charles Wuorinen, Sofia Gubaidulina. That said, I find the string trio somewhat less exciting than other chamber genres. Here's the Wikipedia article with a listing of all the important examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_trio By the way, one of the best working string trio ensembles today is the Leopold String Trio. Here's a link to their list of recordings on Hyperion. That will give you a good idea about the repertoire: http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/a.asp?a=A81


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## Naccio

Wow Alypius dear friend, I'm blest and flabbergasted, I do have a hearing agenda, I wish I could play an instrument as I'm getting to know all these exquisite specimens of music and training the ear...I have an acoustic guitar and a harmonica, but I would love keyboards, though my set back is motor skills, so having said that I go off to listen and write upon! Thanks again!


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## Alypius

Naccio said:


> Wow Alypius dear friend, I'm blest and flabbergasted, I do have a hearing agenda, I wish I could play an instrument as I'm getting to know all these exquisite specimens of music and training the ear...I have an acoustic guitar and a harmonica, but I would love keyboards, though my set back is motor skills, so having said that I go off to listen and write upon! Thanks again!


Naccio, I posted recommendations on the *piano trio* and *string trio* above and some on the *string quartet* over on the other thread that you started. So then, continuing through the genre.

*PIANO QUARTETS*:Most piano quartets are scored for piano, violin, viola, and cello. Brahms has three excellent ones, but let me recommend starting with two other composers:

*Faure:* I mentioned Gabriel Faure earlier. Faure was a master of all the chamber genres and his pair of piano quartets are both exquisite. For all their lush melodies they are shaped by a rich harmonic palette. Both of his piano quartets are exceptional. The best performance I know of is by the group Domus:










*Dvorak:* Dvorak is probably best known for his New World Symphony, but he was a superb chamber music composer in all genres, and his pair of piano quartets are both exceptional. Once again, the best performance I know is by Domus:










*Messiaen:* There are, as I said, variations in instrumentation. Among the most famous is Oliver Messiaen's _Quartet for the End of Time_ (_Quatuor pour la fin du temps_), scored for piano, violin, cello and clarinet. It was composed while Messiaen was a prisoner-of-war in a Nazi prison camp. The choice came from the simple fact that those were instruments available in the prison. The work itself was actually premiered in the prison camp, a fact which has given it a certain aura. But the work in and of itself is a masterpiece. Messiaen, while a conservative (and deeply mystical) Catholic in terms of his religious piety, was at the very same time a cutting-edge, avant-garde composer. So some of this will sound adventurous at times. One trick to appreciating Messiaen: he loved birds. He used to go out and write down the birdsongs he heard (where today we would use a digital recorder). And his scores-including this one-are full of birdsongs. The most famous and still probably the best performance is by Tashi, recorded in the late 1970s:










All that's only the tip of the iceberg. Here's the link to the Wikipedia article on the piano quartet, which includes a large listing of works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_quartet


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## Alypius

Alypius said:


> Before launching into this, it would be helpful to know which quartets, quintets, sextets, and octets you are familiar with. Which ones to do you have in mind? I've got to say that your question is extremely complicated. Have you studied the respective genres at all? Do you read music? Can you follow a more technical musicological analysis? How you answer those questions would shape, I believe, how people will respond to your question.


In this earlier post, I mentioned that the question in your opening post was extremely complicated. I've actually avoided answering until now. The reason, as I noted, was that it was essential to begin to get some familiarity with the repertoire. I've posted recommendations thus far on 4 genres (string trio, piano trio, string quartet, piano quartet), and I will eventually post recommendations on others (string quintet, piano quintet, and string sextet). Your question really requires at least a chapter-length response. I wouldn't dare do that, but if you really want to pursue the question, there are some fine books that you need to explore. All these genres belong, of course, to chamber music. So let me recommend some specific studies on chamber music. First:

*Mark Radice, Chamber Music: An Essential History* (University of Michigan Press, 2012). If you look over on Amazon, you see its table of contents. It's a historical approach. The chapter most relevant to your initial question is Chapter 2: "The Crystallization of Genres during the Golden Age of Chamber Music." But then you don't want to stop there. He will walk you through how those genres then develop, first with Beethoven, through to Brahms and Faure and Debussy, then to Schoenberg, down close to the present with Ligeti.










A second book:

*James M. Keller, Chamber Music: A Listener's Guide* (Oxford University Press, 2011). You might even consider starting with this one. This is arranged by composers, alphabetically. He writes 3-4 pages on each of the major masterpieces of chamber music. More or less, every work that I have recommended is discussed there. So this answers your question less directly in the broad terms of genre, but does a superb job of highlighting the unique structures of each work, how it uniquely works within the genre. Between these two books, you can answer for yourself your question -- with appropriate detail and precision.










As you can see, I haven't really been avoiding answering your opening post per se. I just felt you needed to know the lay of the land and get the resources to answer the question for yourself -- for it's a really good but really complicated question; and it's one that is not well answered by short posts.


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## Alypius

Continuing on through the genres:

*String Quintet:* The string quintet is typically a string quartet with an add on, either another viola or another cello or (more rarely) another violin. Here's the wikipedia article on the genre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_quintet
Most composers who have composed them have written only one. But there is one big exception: Mozart. So I recommend starting there.

*Mozart:* Four of Mozart's are worth exploring (the first two were written when he was a teenager). Two of the better known performances of the whole cycle are by the Amadeus Quartet (with Cecil Aronowitz as the 2nd violist) and by Grumiaux Trio (with Arpad Gerecz as the 2nd violin and Max Lesuer as the 2nd violist). Here's the review of the latter from the _2010 Gramophone Classical Music Guide_, which has a good description of the cycle in its review of the Grumiaux Trio's performance:

"Of the six works Mozart wrote for string quintet, that in B flat major, K174, is an early composition, written at the age of 17. It's a well-made, enjoyable work, but not a great deal more than that. The C minor work, K406, is an arrangement by Mozart of his Serenade for six wind instruments, K398. It's difficult not to feel that the original is more effective, since the music seems to sit a little uncomfortably on string instruments. But the remaining four works, written in the last four years of Mozart's life, are a different matter. The last string quintets from Mozart's pen were extraordinary works, and the addition of the second viola seems to have pulled him to still greater heights. It has been suggested that Mozart wrote K515 and K516 to show King Friedrich Wilhelm II of Prussia that he was a better composer of string quintets than Boccherini, whom the King had retained as chamber music composer to his court. There was no response, so he offered these two quintets for sale with the K406 arrangement to make up the usual set of three. K593 and K614 were written in the last year of his life. Refinement is perhaps the word that first comes to mind in discussing these performances, which are affectionate yet controlled by a cool, intelligent sensitivity. The recordings have been well transferred, and Grumiaux's tone, in particular, is a delight to the ear."










*Schubert:* Schubert tragically died at the age of 31. His _String Quintet in C major_ (D.956) was one of his finals compositions composed just two months before his death-and it is a masterpiece. It add a 2nd cello. There's a good wikipedia article on it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quintet_(Schubert)
There are many, many fine performances. Earlier I recommended the Pavel Haas Quartet's performance of the Death and the Maiden quartet, and that has a fine performance. There is a famous one with the Emerson Quartet with Mstislav Rostropovich as the 2nd cellist. But I'm going to recommend a recent one: teh Takacs Quartet with Ralph Kirschbaum as the 2nd cello:










*String Sextets:* The string sextet typically has two violins, two violas, and two cellos. The wikipedia article on them is not well developed but it helpfully lists the best known:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_sextet

*Schoenberg:* Arnold Schoenberg is best known for his harmonic innovations in the early 20th century, initially what is often but inaccurately labelled "atonality" and later what is called "serialism." Before he moved in those directions, he composed a masterpiece for string sextet, Verklärte Nacht (Transfigured Night) (1896). The work was inspired by a poem by Richard Dehmel. For the poem and a discussion of the composition, here's (the brief and rather undeveloped) wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verklärte_Nacht
It is still in the late romantic idiom (but beginning to really stretch the limits). A work of deep beauty. (He re-orchestrated for chamber orchestra, but the sextet version is for most the more powerful version). There is a famous older one by the Hollywood Quartet (on Testament records). I have not heard the recent version by the Arditti Quartet (on Naive Records), but suspect it is excellent. Instead, I'm going to recommend another older version by the LaSalle Quartet:










*Brahms:* Brahms has two great ones. There are fine performances of them by the Raphael Ensemble on Hyperion and by the Nash Ensemble.


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## MoonlightSonata

String quartets are the general favourite chamber ensemble, but sometimes it seems that the second violin isn't really doing anything. On the other hand, I love large ensembles. I am strange like that.


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## John Kiunke

I generally listen to music before 1850, so I don't know much about Romantic music. 
As for String Quartets, Haydn and Beethoven reign supreme. Mozart was the master of String Quintets. The Keyboard Trio is really a toss-up between Beethoven and Haydn, Beethoven's are most popular, Haydn wrote the most of them. Mozart's are good, as with most forms he wrote in. JC Bach's, while not masterpieces, are still enjoyable, and they're nice and short. Mozart is the only notable Keyboard Quartet writer. Beethoven is probably No. 1 for String Trios, although I believe that Mozart's only trio surpasses all of Beethoven's trios.


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## hpowders

String sextets provide a warm, sensual texture that string quartets cannot match.

Simply listen to the Brahms' String Sextets to hear what I mean. Like taking a warm bubble bath!


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## Pugg

Alypius said:


> Naccio, I posted recommendations on the *piano trio* and *string trio* above and some on the *string quartet* over on the other thread that you started. So then, continuing through the genre.
> 
> *PIANO QUARTETS*:Most piano quartets are scored for piano, violin, viola, and cello. Brahms has three excellent ones, but let me recommend starting with two other composers:
> 
> *Faure:* I mentioned Gabriel Faure earlier. Faure was a master of all the chamber genres and his pair of piano quartets are both exquisite. For all their lush melodies they are shaped by a rich harmonic palette. Both of his piano quartets are exceptional. The best performance I know of is by the group Domus:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dvorak:* Dvorak is probably best known for his New World Symphony, but he was a superb chamber music composer in all genres, and his pair of piano quartets are both exceptional. Once again, the best performance I know is by Domus:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Messiaen:* There are, as I said, variations in instrumentation. Among the most famous is Oliver Messiaen's _Quartet for the End of Time_ (_Quatuor pour la fin du temps_), scored for piano, violin, cello and clarinet. It was composed while Messiaen was a prisoner-of-war in a Nazi prison camp. The choice came from the simple fact that those were instruments available in the prison. The work itself was actually premiered in the prison camp, a fact which has given it a certain aura. But the work in and of itself is a masterpiece. Messiaen, while a conservative (and deeply mystical) Catholic in terms of his religious piety, was at the very same time a cutting-edge, avant-garde composer. So some of this will sound adventurous at times. One trick to appreciating Messiaen: he loved birds. He used to go out and write down the birdsongs he heard (where today we would use a digital recorder). And his scores-including this one-are full of birdsongs. The most famous and still probably the best performance is by Tashi, recorded in the late 1970s:
> 
> All that's only the tip of the iceberg. Here's the link to the Wikipedia article on the piano quartet, which includes a large listing of works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_quartet


These two are very good !


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## senza sordino

Naccio said:


> What do these styles and methods of music vary and add to the ear, what makes them impressive and unique in their own way?


I interpret this question very differently. Maybe it's because I'm a string player. Rather than mention a few specific pieces of music I want to talk about why a combination of string instruments adds to the ear. The quality of sound from a string orchestra is very different to that of a full orchestra including winds. String quartets sound very different when you add a piano to make a quintet.

String instruments exhibit sympathetic resonance. Strings on one instrument will cause the other strings on another instrument to vibrate. The overtones will do this too. The sound is incredible when it's perfectly in tune. I know as I've played in quartets and string orchestras. When I'm waiting for my turn to tune I can feel the sound box on my violin vibrate as the cellos are tuning. When you all play together your instruments all vibrate in sympathy. The feeling is so good.


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## JosefinaHW

senza sordino said:


> I interpret this question very differently. Maybe it's because I'm a string player. Rather than mention a few specific pieces of music I want to talk about why a combination of string instruments adds to the ear. The quality of sound from a string orchestra is very different to that of a full orchestra including winds. String quartets sound very different when you add a piano to make a quintet.
> 
> String instruments exhibit sympathetic resonance. Strings on one instrument will cause the other strings on another instrument to vibrate. The overtones will do this too. The sound is incredible when it's perfectly in tune. I know as I've played in quartets and string orchestras. When I'm waiting for my turn to tune I can feel the sound box on my violin vibrate as the cellos are tuning. When you all play together your instruments all vibrate in sympathy. The feeling is so good.


Can the audience hear this? If so, please post a YouTube video or two. I just read about the sympathetic resonance of the timpani w relation to Mozart. According to Paul Johnson Mozart greatly understood instruments and timpanists of his time loved him for his understanding of their instrument.


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