# Albums You Love/Hate & Why



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

List albums you love and/or ones you dislike and the reasons why.

I'll start with the one that inspired this thread, I dislike Bitches Brew by Miles Davis, I'm with the Jazz critics that hailed it as unintelligible non-sense. I feel like it is about disintegration of the mind, and believe that is what drugs do to you when you overuse them.


A Love Supreme is my favorite Jazz album that I've heard, the way the band backs Coltrane is pretty unique compared to other Jazz albums (especially the drumming/bass).


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> List albums you love and/or ones you dislike and the reasons why.
> 
> I'll start with the one that inspired this thread, I dislike Bitches Brew by Miles Davis, I'm with the Jazz critics that hailed it as unintelligible non-sense. I feel like it is about disintegration of the mind, and believe that is what drugs do to you when you overuse them.


If the critics were so brilliant they'd be creating the music. If you don't like Bitches Brew that's fine, but to attribute this music to the disintegration of the mind is nonsense. Both Miles and Trane were heroin addicts in the 50s and nobody complained about that music except for the nitwits that wanted Miles to fire Coltrane.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

_Kind of Blue_ remains my favorite jazz album, yet I'm glad Miles didn't record it over and over again (that same "sound" repeatedly) but rather chose to blaze new paths, almost with each new album release. One of the great glories of Miles Davis is his diversity, the variety his music provides. _Bitches Brew_ is as exciting in its own way as Kind of Blue is in it's way. And so on for what else Miles undertook. Okay … not everything is equally successful (fan base wise, financially, record sales numbers, influence upon others), but only by exploring can an artist truly grow. Miles likely could have gotten stuck in a rut in 1959 had he wished to. Apparently he didn't, and I celebrate that!

If there's a Miles album I don't particularly care for, I could name _Doo-Bop_, which is actually playing in the background as I type. Of course, this was a posthumous compilation that Miles never had a final approval for. We can wonder what he might have thought of it. Another Miles album that I visit less often than others is _Aura_, again late Miles Davis and a work over which Miles apparently had less control than usual. I favor _Aura_ over _Doo-Bop_, for it sounds more "creative" I would argue. Yet, even weak Miles Davis (like lesser music by Mozart) is still generally better than that by nearly anyone else.

I can't say this post responds to the initial question of the thread, but I had to put in my two-cents or so for Miles.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I like so many albums of many different genres but there's one album i cannot ever listen to again. Jeff Wayne's 'War of the Worlds'. Part of my loathing is just total oversaturation at the tme from my dad (who played it non-stop), my mates and from every time i turned the tv on. I still cant see what people thought was so great about it. I can just about bear Justin Hayward's insipid 'Forever Autumn' but hated every other part of the album. The spoken parts annoyed me, the cheesy keyboard sounds still make my skin crawl, and all that "chances of anything coming from Mars" rattled my cage but the real low point was Phil Lynott's cringeworthy 'No Nathaniel No' ********. I can only think that Lynott was smacked-up to the skies when he agreed to record that utter rubbish. Yes i hate that album with a passion. Dont often like being negative but.......aaaarrrrgggghhhh!


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2019)

Merl said:


> I like so many albums of many different genres but there's one album i cannot ever listen to again. Jeff Wayne's 'War of the Worlds'. Part of my loathing is just total oversaturation at the tme from my dad (who played it non-stop), my mates and from every time i turned the tv on. I still cant see what people thought was so great about it. I can just about bear Justin Hayward's insipid 'Forever Autumn' but hated every other part of the album. The spoken parts annoyed me, the cheesy keyboard sounds still make my skin crawl, and all that "chances of anything coming from Mars" rattled my cage but the real low point was Phil Lynott's cringeworthy 'No Nathaniel No' ********. I can only think that Lynott was smacked-up to the skies when he agreed to record that utter rubbish. Yes i hate that album with a passion. Dont often like being negative but.......aaaarrrrgggghhhh!







Here's a link to the complete LP -






Merl, perhaps if you give it one more go for *auld lang syne*? - :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

starthrower said:


> If the critics were so brilliant they'd be creating the music. If you don't like Bitches Brew that's fine, but to attribute this music to the disintegration of the mind is nonsense. Both Miles and Trane were heroin addicts in the 50s and nobody complained about that music except for the nitwits that wanted Miles to fire Coltrane.


I don't believe in the profession of critics, but I do happen to agree with what they stated about the album. I think Bitches Brew encompasses the lifestyle of acid lovers.

I can never get through the whole thing when I listen to it, it just goes nowhere and just sits in the middle.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> _Kind of Blue_ remains my favorite jazz album, yet I'm glad Miles didn't record it over and over again (that same "sound" repeatedly) but rather chose to blaze new paths, almost with each new album release. One of the great glories of Miles Davis is his diversity, the variety his music provides. _Bitches Brew_ is as exciting in its own way as Kind of Blue is in it's way. And so on for what else Miles undertook. Okay … not everything is equally successful (fan base wise, financially, record sales numbers, influence upon others), but only by exploring can an artist truly grow. Miles likely could have gotten stuck in a rut in 1959 had he wished to. Apparently he didn't, and I celebrate that!
> 
> If there's a Miles album I don't particularly care for, I could name _Doo-Bop_, which is actually playing in the background as I type. Of course, this was a posthumous compilation that Miles never had a final approval for. We can wonder what he might have thought of it. Another Miles album that I visit less often than others is _Aura_, again late Miles Davis and a work over which Miles apparently had less control than usual. I favor _Aura_ over _Doo-Bop_, for it sounds more "creative" I would argue. Yet, even weak Miles Davis (like lesser music by Mozart) is still generally better than that by nearly anyone else.
> 
> I can't say this post responds to the initial question of the thread, but I had to put in my two-cents or so for Miles.


Great post, but I'm ok with an artist having a sound and sticking to it as well.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I don't believe in the profession of critics, but I do happen to agree with what they stated about the album. I think Bitches Brew encompasses the lifestyle of acid lovers.


You have a tendency to make dogmatic statements and assumptions. Since Bitches Brew is one of the biggest selling jazz albums, it's probably more realistic to assume that people of many different lifestyles listen to this music.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

starthrower said:


> You have a tendency to make dogmatic statements and assumptions. Since Bitches Brew is one of the biggest selling jazz albums, it's probably more realistic to assume that people of many different lifestyles listen to this music.


It isn't Jazz, it's fusion. The music is directionless and aimless.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It isn't Jazz, it's fusion.


That's a whole other discussion, but it's still jazz to my ears. It certainly features a lot of improvisation. Just because electric instruments and different rhythms are being utilized doesn't mean it can't be jazz.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

starthrower said:


> That's a whole other discussion, but it's still jazz to my ears. It certainly features a lot of improvisation. Just because electric instruments and different rhythms are being utilized doesn't mean it can't be jazz.


I understand where you are coming from, I'm not as concerned about terminology. But in the end, the album just has too little motion for me. My favorite fusion album is Herbie's Thrust album, that one is great for me!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Some other albums I'm digging right now:

Apostrophe - Zappa
MMT - Beatles
Limbs - Radiohead
50 Words for Snow - Kate Bush
Rufus Wainwright - Rufus Wainwright
Thrust - Herbie (in mail)
Wants One - Rufus Wainwright
Blood Money - Waits (in mail)


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...4df-15aac5223b10&pf_rd_r=C50Q9FDFSNG6VCACC4F3

Recommended by a TCer, I loved this Classical disc, very enjoyable.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> List albums you love and/or ones you dislike and the reasons why.
> 
> I'll start with the one that inspired this thread, I dislike Bitches Brew by Miles Davis, I'm with the Jazz critics that hailed it as unintelligible non-sense. I feel like it is about disintegration of the mind, and believe that is what drugs do to you when you overuse them.
> 
> A Love Supreme is my favorite Jazz album that I've heard, the way the band backs Coltrane is pretty unique compared to other Jazz albums (especially the drumming/bass).


I like Bitches Brew way better than A Love Supreme. The main motif of A Love Supreme gets tiring to me really quick, I just don't find what Coltrane did with it very interesting. Bitches Brew is my favourite Miles album, funky with accompaniments I really find interesting. Also love Dolphy's Out to Lunch and Out There. I don't like Mingus's Black Saint as much as I used to, but like his Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus better.

Ever listen to In a Silent Way? That's like a cross between Bitches Brew and Kind of Blue to me in feel.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> My favorite fusion album is Herbie's Thrust album, that one is great for me!


I like Actual Proof, and Butterfly. I'm a big fan of Bennie Maupin. I have a couple of his albums. An old ECM album entitled The Jewel In The Lotus, and Penumbra released ten years ago on the Cryptogramophone label.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Some other albums I'm digging right now:
> 
> Apostrophe - Zappa
> MMT - Beatles
> ...


I can't get over how good Apostrophe is, I'd heard it before, but it's so perfect!


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Here is a really weird concept: I don't own albums that I hate.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

_Love Beach_ by Emerson Lake & Palmer. This was their final studio album before splitting for the first time in 1979, and it seems they couldn't wait to call it a day by giving fans a total turkey that even the most one-eyed die-hards would find hard to like. The cover, featuring the trio in hairy chest and Bee Gees ultra-white teeth mode standing above the Bahamas shoreline, should have been enough to warn most people off.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I can't get over how good Apostrophe is, I'd heard it before, but it's so perfect!


I've always felt like FZ was one of the great record producers in the music business. He doesn't get the credit for his wide ranging talents. It's embarrassing how many times interviewers had the opportunity to ask him interesting questions and all they could think of is why he chose unusual names for his kids.

I happen to think Roxy & Elsewhere is another brilliant production of a series of concerts edited and overdubbed to create a wonderful album. The 7 CD box is probably for completists and FZ fanatics. It's all the shows in the raw. But there's something more satisfying about a finely crafted album production. Sometimes less is more.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

It's hard to think of albums I hate, cause yeah, I don't own any. But I can think of many artists who went from making great albums to making mediocre albums with great singles. But that's for another thread I suppose...

I've had a shroom sitting in a jar on the shelf for almost a year. Maybe I should finally nibble some and listen to BB...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

"They've got no psilocybin there, but there's chicken sandwiches in the freezer ah, ahh...

From Chatfield Manor by Mike Keneally. From one of my all time favorite albums, Sluggo.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

elgars ghost said:


> _Love Beach_ by Emerson Lake & Palmer. This was their final studio album before splitting for the first time in 1979, and it seems they couldn't wait to call it a day by giving fans a total turkey that even the most one-eyed die-hards would find hard to like. The cover, featuring the trio in hairy chest and Bee Gees ultra-white teeth mode standing above the Bahamas shoreline, should have been enough to warn most people off.


Lol, yep that was a bloody awful album. Listened once, never purchased it (thankfully) , never listened again. 








For classic Rock bands making total turkeys I'm gonna throw in Judas Priest's 'Nostradamus' album. Even one of my mates, who is possibly Priest's biggest fan, calls it a "steaming pile of utter *****'. Awful stuff.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

OK, I'm a Bowie fan but I've never been able to dig Young Americans. Fame is good but the rest is weak. Fortunately he came back big with Station to Station. YA may have been the bigger hit though, so I'm sure many feel the opposite.

Another WTF would be Slider by T Rex. Electric Warrior was a great album, somewhat spoiled by the overexposure of one single. On Slider's release, Telegram Sam came off like a weak remake of Get it On, while the rest of the album suffered in comparison to EL. 

Over the long run, Telegram Sam is really a killer song, and I think of Get it On as the weaker prototype, but my overall opinion of Slider stands. It's a flawed album with a great single. The production is just way too shrill, and the use of Flo & Eddie finally goes too far...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Merl said:


> Lol, yep that was a bloody awful album. Listened once, never purchased it (thankfully) , never listened again.
> View attachment 111555


The previous album, Works II is pretty lousy as well. And I'm not too crazy about Vol 1 either. According to Greg Lake, Emerson's depression problems started in 1977 so maybe this had something to do with a lack of quality material?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Genesis in its prog years was one of my favourite bands. Even when they went commercial in the 80s I kept buying their records for the occasional gem. And because I'm a completionist at heart. But I never bought Calling all stations. In fact it was given to me once, and I got rid of it.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

starthrower said:


> I like Actual Proof, and Butterfly. I'm a big fan of Bennie Maupin. I have a couple of his albums. An old ECM album entitled The Jewel In The Lotus, and Penumbra released ten years ago on the Cryptogramophone label.


Just found Lotus on Spotify and it's playing now. Always liked Maupin too and this is good!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Room2201974 said:


> Here is a really weird concept: I don't own albums that I hate.


But I'm sure you've listened to some.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

starthrower said:


> I like Actual Proof, and Butterfly. I'm a big fan of Bennie Maupin. I have a couple of his albums. An old ECM album entitled The Jewel In The Lotus, and Penumbra released ten years ago on the Cryptogramophone label.


I'm listening now, so far I am finding it enjoyable!


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> But I'm sure you've listened to some.


Here's another weird concept: I don't listen to music I don't like.

Not trying to be flip here....but at my age I just don't have time.

How about an album I love? Well, last month I got out the headphones and listened to _Rubber Soul_ all the way through for the first time in ages and was amazed at how there seems to be a beautiful balance in that gestalt! So yeah, I can say the word "love" about that album.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

starthrower said:


> The previous album, Works II is pretty lousy as well. And I'm not too crazy about Vol 1 either. According to Greg Lake, Emerson's depression problems started in 1977 so maybe this had something to do with a lack of quality material?


Yes, the rot set in with _Works vol. I_ but I can still listen to most of it, especially the Carl Palmer side and the extended version of _Fanfare..._. The long lay-off since _Brain Salad Surgery_ didn't reinvigorate them, and the fact that three sides were solo efforts just proved to me that by and large they were spent as a collaborative unit. On what was the 'group' side I do like their arrangement of Copland's _Fanfare..._ but _Pirates_ comes over like a lame re-tread of _Karn Evil Nine: 3rd Impression_. I find the Greg Lake side particularly excruciating - as a mood-shifter one soft track an album was enough before then but a whole side of MOR was well beyond the pale.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Yes, the rot set in with _Works vol. I_ but I can still listen to most of it


I find most of the music to be rather hokey and derivative. The piano concerto is okay, but nothing original. Greg Lake's Neil Diamond side is of no interest. The Palmer side isn't bad, but nothing that hadn't already been done by horn powered jazz/fusion bands, and Pirates is the longest show tune I've had to endure. As for the Copland? I'd rather just listen to the symphony.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Room2201974 said:


> Here's another weird concept: I don't listen to music I don't like.
> 
> Not trying to be flip here....but at my age I just don't have time.
> 
> How about an album I love? Well, last month I got out the headphones and listened to _Rubber Soul_ all the way through for the first time in ages and was amazed at how there seems to be a beautiful balance in that gestalt! So yeah, I can say the word "love" about that album.


You have to hear music to decide if you like or dislike it, good sir!


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

Actual hate requires far too much of an emotional investment but I could quite cheerfully do without this -






Up until this release it was actually cool to be a fan of Peter Frampton... after this.... not so much...


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

It may be hard to believe but there once was a time when Rod Stewart was actually pretty cool... Once this was released that was a reputation that was unsalvageable...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

For me Rod Stewart's creativity went totally down the toilet once he left the Faces and London in exchange for Britt Ekland and Hollywood.


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

It may be hard to believe but there once was a time when the Rolling Stones were actually pretty cool... Once this was released that was a reputation that was unsalvageable...


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## nenopro (Jan 26, 2019)

Deadwing is my fav album.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Miss You has one of the greatest harmonica licks ever. Nuff for me. Haven't forgot the duds that came before.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Some Girls is their last great album. Sugar Blue plays harmonica on Miss You.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

starthrower said:


> Some Girls is their last great album. Sugar Blue plays harmonica on Miss You.


In 5th position (Phrygian)!


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

philoctetes said:


> In 5th position (Phrygian)!


5th position? I thought there was only one.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Red Terror said:


> 5th position? I thought there was only one.


Missionaries :devil:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I love this one. The vintage keyboard sounds and great playing by Dave Stewart. And of course the rhythm section is excellent!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It isn't Jazz, it's fusion. The music is directionless and aimless.


I love Bitches brew, but I can see your point. The fact is that a lot of jazz, with its circularity has that aspect. You can like the mood of it, and see it as a fascinating and mysterious travel in the night, or just dislike it because you think that music has necessarily to tell a story, with building, climax etc. It's a bit like the distinction between figurative and abstract art. Not everybody likes abstract stuff.
What I think it's strange, it's that A love supreme (and a lot of works of Coltrane) could be seen exactly as Bitches brew as directionless and aimless. I remember discussions here with a person saying it was just "noodling"
My small criticism (for both albums) is that a lot of tunes are just small vamps (with the exception probably of Sanctuary, that is one of the most beautiful jazz compositions ever in my opinion), while I tend to like more elaborate tunes, but I think in any case that both Bitches brew and A love supreme are great works.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think my critique of the album Bitches Brew is exactly what makes it great! I've come back around on a lot of music I was dismissing for a while.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Merl said:


> I like so many albums of many different genres but there's one album i cannot ever listen to again. Jeff Wayne's 'War of the Worlds'. Part of my loathing is just total oversaturation at the tme from my dad (who played it non-stop), my mates and from every time i turned the tv on. I still cant see what people thought was so great about it. I can just about bear Justin Hayward's insipid 'Forever Autumn' but hated every other part of the album. The spoken parts annoyed me, the cheesy keyboard sounds still make my skin crawl, and all that "chances of anything coming from Mars" rattled my cage but the real low point was Phil Lynott's cringeworthy 'No Nathaniel No' ********. I can only think that Lynott was smacked-up to the skies when he agreed to record that utter rubbish. Yes i hate that album with a passion. Dont often like being negative but.......aaaarrrrgggghhhh!





Donny Brook said:


> Here's a link to the complete LP -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My own favorite album from Mars remains:









This is Widowspeak Productions ‎- WSP 10, one of the great experimental/new-wave/no-wave/noise/punk/post-punk/pre-punk/un-punk/un-everything-else albums and long a prize in my collection, having both the original release vinyl and a later CD release. If you want to go to war with the world, spin this disc and crank up the volume.

I think even Orson Welles would have loved it!


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## eyepatchplease (Apr 7, 2019)

I'm pretty picky about what I buy and there's a few bands that I'd buy their latest _without_ previewing it first. Then I bought Arcade Fire's Reflektor.


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