# If music is tunelful, is it "lesser?"



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Seems like there is sometimes an intellectual preference for music that is more "rhetorical" as opposed to tuneful.

In my experience it seems that composers such as (later) Stravinsky, Schönberg, Webern etc. are often placed on pedestals for the music they produce (often lacking any traditional melody whatsoever but brimming with an abundance "theory") but composers like Tchaikovsky are looked down upon for his use of "sappy" melodies and big tunes.

Seems like sometimes enjoying a good, toe-tapping melody in classical musi is somewhat _verboten_. What do y'all think?

By the way, not all tuneful music is good and not all "tuneless" music is bad. That is not at all my position, so please bear that in mind before you personally attack me. I am just interested in the general opinion here as to the question I posed above.


----------



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

My opinion is that a good melody, a memorable tune, gives a much greater appeal to any piece of music. I take off my hat to spicy harmony, forceful rhythms and fine orchestral colour, but for me, all of this is greatly enhanced by a tune I will remember and hum or whistle afterwards. 

Surely I do love composers not primarily known for 'tunefulness': Debussy, Prokofiev, Brahms, Sibelius... 

But I am often refreshed by music in which melody is the most important part. Therefore, I put on some Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Mendelssohn or Haydn every now and then. (And Schubert is absolutely great, not just the melodies - I had to say this now)


----------



## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Lisztfreak said:


> But I am often refreshed by music in which melody is the most important part. Therefore, I put on some Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Mendelssohn or Haydn every now and then. (And Schubert is absolutely great, not just the melodies - I had to say this now)


... you forgot Liszt.  What a great melodist he was!


----------



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Herzeleide said:


> ... you forgot Liszt.  What a great melodist he was!


True, even though his melodies are often too complicated to be hummed, like many romantic ones. Too elaborate, which of course is a positive thing.

But yeah, who could ever forget the melodies from the Dante Sonata, Annés de pélérinage, Liebesträume or the symphonic poems?


----------



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

To the administrators: The title of this thread has a misspelled word "tunelful" instead of tuneful...can this be changed?

(I am a horrendous typist!)


----------



## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Lisztfreak said:


> True, even though his melodies are often too complicated to be hummed, like many romantic ones. Too elaborate, which of course is a positive thing.
> 
> But yeah, who could ever forget the melodies from the Dante Sonata, Annés de pélérinage, Liebesträume or the symphonic poems?


Exactly. But I think Liszt's tunes are often perfectly hummable - I think all the transcriptions of Schubert's songs Liszt did for piano rubbed off on his compositions.


----------



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

I see there are two copies of this thread! One spelt correctly, the other this one.


----------



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Herzeleide said:


> Exactly. But I think Liszt's tunes are often perfectly hummable - I think all the transcriptions of Schubert's songs Liszt did for piano rubbed off on his compositions.


Ah, yes... you remind me of my old love Liszt. I haven't been so much into his music over the past few months, but I will have to revisit the composer that made me a classical music lover. I think I'll start tomorrow morning with The Masterpiece - the Piano Sonata!


----------



## Cyclops (Mar 24, 2008)

I think its nice to have a balance of both tune and drama. You can be as high brow as you like but you won't convince me that Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is a minor piece. On the other hand you can't beat the tension and drama in Verklarcht Nacht(man thats tough to type on a phone!) But on the whole I find a lot of 20th century 'classical' music to be awful. The likes of Tippet for example or Ligetti just make me turn off. And what little I've heard of Bartok has the same effect on me. Tho I'm sure he must have done something I'd like.


----------



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Cyclops said:


> I think its nice to have a balance of both tune and drama. You can be as high brow as you like but you won't convince me that Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is a minor piece. On the other hand you can't beat the tension and drama in Verklarcht Nacht(man thats tough to type on a phone!) But on the whole I find a lot of 20th century 'classical' music to be awful. The likes of Tippet for example or Ligetti just make me turn off. And what little I've heard of Bartok has the same effect on me. Tho I'm sure he must have done something I'd like.


Of course, but there are also dramatic tunes. For example, the ones in the Nacht - I find it quite tuneful actually. Also see Mahler, Bruckner, Beethoven... high drama and big tunes together.

Tippett? Tippett is tuneful! Especially the earlier pieces! Bartók also, although not always. But there are plenty of folky pieces of his to whistle about.


----------



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

ATTENTION MEMBERS:

Please move this discussion to THIS thread:

http://www.talkclassical.com/5550-if-music-tuneful-lesser.html

We have two version of the same topic going now, due to a mistake by yours truly. The title of THIS thread has a misspelled word, the other one does not. So, let's move all further posts of the discussion there!!! PLEASE!


----------

