# Just downloaded Solti'S '83 Bayreuth Ring



## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I just downloaded Solti's Bayreuth Ring from 1983. I've listened to parts of Rheingold and Siegfried - the sound is great and I've liked what I've heard thus far. Anyone else have this? Very interesting story behind it.


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## Roland (Mar 13, 2013)

I would like to hear more about this recording.

I assume that it is a live recording.

However, I've read that the moving platform used in the production was rather noisy and Solti was unsatisfied with the recording quality. Am I recalling this correctly?

I also remember reading that Solti found the Bayreuth sunken orchestral pit to be a challenge to his conducting. I believe the problem he experienced was aligning the tempo between the orchestra and the singers. I think that Wolfgang Wagner even permitted the removal of a portion of the overhanging caul--which I remember thinking was an extraordinary concession.

But Solti did not return the next year. Health reasons were the excuse, but I've always thought there were other, deeper unstated dissatisfactions. I'm intrigued to hear from gellio that he's impressed with what he has heard so far.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I just ripped it from YouTube to mp3. Conducting seems great to me.


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## Oreb (Aug 8, 2013)

I picked this up about a year ago and I love Solti's work on it. Vocally, however, I think it's very poor.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

gellio said:


> I just downloaded Solti's Bayreuth Ring from 1983. I've listened to parts of Rheingold and Siegfried - the sound is great and I've liked what I've heard thus far. Anyone else have this? Very interesting story behind it.


Well, the whole thing started with a political scandal. Wolfgang Wagner had employed Simon Estes to sing Wotan, and Peter Hall insisted that all the Gods must then be sung by coloured singers or that Estes must use white make-up. When Estes was advised of this, he went ballistic, calling a press conference, accusing all of Racism and ultimately withdrew from the production, so we never did find out whether Hall would have resigned. (he insisted he would, had he been forced to accept "black and white gods" as he called it)
Meanwhile Solti arrives and after the first orchestra rehearsal in the pit insisted that unless part of the shell was removed, he would quit. It was removed, but it did not help. He disliked the experience so much, he cancelled his 1984 appearances.
Alberto Remedios was pencilled in to sing the Siegfrieds (having sung it at Covent Garden in 1980 and 82 in German) but he withdrew(a step too far - he said). Bayreuth had to revert to Manfred Jung, who had been singing it at Bayreuth for some time already. WW had problems replacing the Wotan(it ended up being split between Nimsgern and Norup,
Solti was very unhappy about Nimsgern (very light voice) and other aspects of casting.
Peter Hall's production was almost universally disliked and all in all, it is a miracle that the broadcast tapes sound so good.
Solti does conduct in his inimitable manner and Behrens as Brünnhilde is magnificent.
There are some very good things in this Ring, but it was not as good as the Rings Solti conducted at Covent Garden from 1964 to 1971.
However it is a great bonus for all who only ever heard the Decca Ring from Solti to hear him conduct a live Ring.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

I seem to recall _Siegfried_ was booed volubly on this recording. What was going on with the staging that was so terrible?

_Das Rheingold_ is the best of this cycle musically and vocally if memory serves.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Oreb said:


> I picked this up about a year ago and I love Solti's work on it. Vocally, however, I think it's very poor.


I agree with Oreb on this one.

If you specifically want a Solti recording. His studio cycle with the Vienna PO might be worth checking out. For many, it's the benchmark for studio Ring Cycles.

Normally, my recommendation for an entire cycle would be Bohm/1966 Bayreuth or for something more recent - Barenboim/1993 Bayreuth. However, the '55 Keilberth recording that was released a couple of years ago on the Testament label is possibly better than all of them.

If you enjoy the one you've got - that's all that matters...but if want to go a little further down the rabbit hole, these would be a good place to start.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pip said:


> her Hall would have resigned. (he insisted he would, had he been forced to accept "black and white gods" as he called it)
> Meanwhile Solti arrives and after the first orchestra rehearsal in the pit insisted that unless part of the shell was removed, he would quit. It was removed, but it did not help. He disliked the experience so much, he cancelled his 1984 appearances.
> Alberto Remedios was pencilled in to sing the Siegfrieds (having sung it at Covent Garden in 1980 and 82 in German) but he withdrew(a step too far - he said). Bayreuth had to revert to Manfred Jung, who had been singing it at Bayreuth for some time already. WW had problems replacing the Wotan(it ended up being split between Nimsgern and Norup,
> Solti was very unhappy about Nimsgern (very light voice) and other aspects of casting.
> ...


The Siegfried who was booked in was Reiner Goldberg. Solti spent a lot of time working with him only to find he could not remember the words on stage, even though he was good with the score in front of him! That's why Jung took over at the last minute. It was remembered as 'a disaster too horrible to contemplate!'


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

DavidA said:


> The Siegfried who was booked in was Reiner Goldberg. Solti spent a lot of time working with him only to find he could not remember the words on stage, even though he was good with the score in front of him! That's why Jung took over at the last minute. It was remembered as 'a disaster too horrible to contemplate!'


That's correct about Goldberg who was chosen once Remedios decided not to do it. I'd quite forgotten about that. He came to London later in the 80s and sang the Siegfried roles under Haitink.(not very well as I remember)
The scenery was not poor from memory the booing was for the bad singing. Nimsberg had a bad night as the Wanderer and the final duet was not up to standard. Jung really did save the show, but the audience did not like him much.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

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I just got Barenboim's yesterday. Love his conducting and the orchestral playing. Solti's studio is my favorite. I have 13 1/2 Rings. I'm obsessed.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

gellio said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> I just got Barenboim's yesterday. Love his conducting and the orchestral playing. Solti's studio is my favorite. I have 13 1/2 Rings. I'm obsessed.


:lol: ...forget the rabbit hole - you're already lost in the warren.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I really can't help myself. It's an illness. About every six months I get Ring obsessed and it usually involves a new Ring. This time it was 4 1/2 - Thielemann Vienna, Kielberth '55, Karajan, Barenboim and Gergiev. I returned the Thielemann Vienna because the sound was awful.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

gellio said:


> I really can't help myself. It's an illness. About every six months I get Ring obsessed and it usually involves a new Ring. This time it was 4 1/2 - Thielemann Vienna, Kielberth '55, Karajan, Barenboim and Gergiev. I returned the Thielemann Vienna because the sound was awful.


I got rid of the Thielemann because the singing was so poor!


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## Oreb (Aug 8, 2013)

Does anyone know if the recent London Proms Ring was recorded for commercial release? What I have heard of it sounded mighty indeed and the reviews were stellar.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Oreb said:


> and the reviews were stellar.


Stellar reviews? Who wrote them, Humphrey Bogart and Sophia Loren?


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

Oreb said:


> Does anyone know if the recent London Proms Ring was recorded for commercial release? What I have heard of it sounded mighty indeed and the reviews were stellar.


Just sent you a PM.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

that Solti '83 production sounds like a proper shambles. Cheers for the chuckle :tiphat:


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> :lol: ...forget the rabbit hole - you're already lost in the warren.


Haha. Too true. I returned the Thieleman because the sonics were so bad.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Solti Bayreuth Ring was recounted in a book I loaned from the library. Photos were great but it appears there was one disaster after another. Maybe because Hall decided to follow Wagner's impossible theatrical demands to the letter.


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## crumpybumpy (May 22, 2016)

gellio said:


> I just downloaded Solti's Bayreuth Ring from 1983. I've listened to parts of Rheingold and Siegfried - the sound is great and I've liked what I've heard thus far. Anyone else have this? Very interesting story behind it.


Where did you download this from?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

crumpybumpy said:


> Where did you download this from?


I think it's available from Operadepot.com


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I think it's available from Operadepot.com


Poster can give it a try but as far as I know , not this one.
Perhaps DarkAngel can sine some light on this one?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Contemporary review of the Solti Ring

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...#v=onepage&q=solti ring bayreuth 1983&f=false

Significant that both Solti and Hall fled the scene after the first year!


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

That review is a hoot. The juxtaposition of the Solti review with a review of cult classic film Liquid Sky makes it even better.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Poster can give it a try but as far as I know , not this one.
> Perhaps DarkAngel can sine some light on this one?


There's an Australian company whose name escapes me at the moment and I'm not at home so I can't check the name that have the '83 Solti Ring. I got mine on YouTube too and the sound is perfectly acceptable. Probably not worth buying from Australia as I recall it wasn't cheap. I'll try and find out more when I get home.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

gardibolt said:


> That review is a hoot. The juxtaposition of the Solti review with a review of cult classic film Liquid Sky makes it even better.


This review was not untypical. Solti says in his memoirs that while conducting at Bayreuth should have been a gratifying experience for him, "in the end it caused me endless suffering."


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Pugg said:


> Poster can give it a try but as far as I know , not this one.
> Perhaps DarkAngel can sine some light on this one?


Operadepot does not currently offer the 83 Solti Bayreuth Ring, but they do have a 65 ROH Solti Ring (live) with different cast than the Decca studio Ring........I have not heard it


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

DarkAngel said:


> Operadepot does not currently offer the 83 Solti Bayreuth Ring, but they do have a 65 ROH Solti Ring (live) with different cast than the Decca studio Ring........I have not heard it


I remember listening to this broadcast on the radio! That gives my age away!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> Operadepot does not currently offer the 83 Solti Bayreuth Ring, but they do have a 65 ROH Solti Ring (live) with different cast than the Decca studio Ring........I have not heard it


To my eternal shame I have it but like so many other things I have, I haven't got round to listening to it yet. One day!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I think it's available from Operadepot.com


Here's a link to the Australian company I was referring to earlier. The Bayreuth 1983 ring is available in separate instalments.

http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Page03.htm


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> Here's a link to the Australian company I was referring to earlier. The Bayreuth 1983 ring is available in separate instalments.
> 
> http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Page03.htm


I found that company a few years back and still don't know how to order
( I know I am stupid before someone mention it )


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Barbebleu said:


> Here's a link to the Australian company I was referring to earlier. The Bayreuth 1983 ring is available in separate instalments.
> 
> http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Page03.htm


Is this like Opera Depot? Those covers displayed do not look like commercial releases.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Is this like Opera Depot? Those covers displayed do not look like commercial releases.


No Opera Depot, it's a kind of , but have you find how to order yet?
I see Sills and now I am in a buy mood .


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> No Opera Depot, it's a kind of , but have you find how to order yet?
> I see Sills and now I am in a buy mood .


All I see is "orders" at lower right which leads to this page that hopefully will get you your Sills set:
http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Order-Choice.htm


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> All I see is "orders" at lower right which leads to this page that hopefully will get you your Sills set:
> http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Order-Choice.htm


I came that far before, I presume you have to just mail them for ordering, I will try tomorrow and I report back.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> I came that far before, I presume you have to just mail them for ordering, I will try tomorrow and I report back.


Ah, I think I found it. Click on the disk icons to the right of either credit card order or paypal order and an order form opens up.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Barbebleu said:


> Here's a link to the Australian company I was referring to earlier. The Bayreuth 1983 ring is available in separate instalments.
> 
> http://www.celestialaudio.com.au/Page03.htm


Woah, check this out! Page 5 of their listings, second one down is Reyer's opera, Sigurd. It is almost like Siegfired in Gotterdammerung. Wikipedia synopsis:



> Hilda, the younger sister of Gunther, king of the Burgundians, loves the hero Sigurd, despite the fact that she was expected to be given to Attila himself as a bride. At the instigation of her nurse (Uta) she gives Sigurd a magic potion which brings him to her feet. Sigurd, Gunther and Hagen then swear fealty to each other and set off to Iceland, where Brunehild lies asleep upon a lofty rock, surrounded by a circle of fire and some supernatural beings. There, Sigurd, to earn the hand of Hilda, must overcome those monsters. He achieves this and passes through the flames to win Brunehild for Gunther. His face is closely hidden by his visor, and Brunehild in all innocence accepts Gunther as her saviour, and gives herself to him. The secret is afterwards disclosed by Hilda in a fit of jealous rage, whereupon Brunehild releases Sigurd from the enchantment of the potion. He recognises her as the bride ordained for him by the gods, and they sing a passionate love duet, but before he can taste his new-found happiness he is treacherously slain by Gunther while hunting. His body is brought back to the palace and Brunehild mounts the funeral pyre. A powerful apotheosis ends the opera when spirits of Sigurd and Brunehild ascend to paradise, and soldiers of Attila are seen walking over corpses of Burgundians.[4]


Is one on You Tube also in four parts. Part 1.

Better yet, the whole thing but recording only:


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## Jrhblack (May 13, 2019)

Greetings. My computer ate my download of Walküre and I’ve not since been able to find it? Are you agreeable to sharing it, perhaps in exchange for other Wagner broadcasts?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Solti is not the only conductor to have found the sunken orchestra pit at Bayreuth difficult to handle . Many have . 
Igor Markevitch was invited , I believe way back in the 1950s , to conduct either Tannhauser or Lohengrin, I'm not sure which one, and he was so upset trying to conduct there he withdrew from the production before it opened ! I believe Andre Cluytens stepped in for him at the last minute .


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Jrhblack said:


> Greetings. My computer ate my download of Walküre and I've not since been able to find it? Are you agreeable to sharing it, perhaps in exchange for other Wagner broadcasts?


No can do a search of the entire computer for some key word, perhaps part of a track title?


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