# Orchestral/Ensemble/Instrumental Groups?



## Guest

Just got home from a medium-length drive full of Gruppen and Carre...

...And again, I find myself wondering about this contemporary trend of orchestral groups. I understand the spatial aspect of a live performance, but given what I've read about Carter's "Symphony Of Three Orchestras", I thought we might open a discussion of possible compositional benefits of this sort of writing. Specifically, once you put the work in a recorded setting (thus removing most of the spatial aspects), what benefits do Stockhausen, Carter, Barraque, Andre, etc reap from composing for separate groups? "A Symphony Of Three Orchestras" doesn't particularly *sound* all that different from "A Symphony" when it comes out of my car speakers, so I'm wondering if there is a reason beyond live spatial performance for these works.

Thoughts?


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## Morimur

If a piece only sounds good coming out of an expensive hi-fi system, it's not a good piece.


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## Guest

Morimur said:


> If a piece only sounds good coming out of an expensive hi-fi system, it's not a good piece.


Well, all the pieces in question sound great  but the remainders of a spatial recording are often lost, so it becomes a matter of "why are all these orchestras divided up anyway?"

I am, perhaps, wondering more if division of instruments is done to make certain serial/stochastic ideas more easily executed.

Edit: Not that my small brain should really be worrying about such matters. Zero formal training over here, fyi. All wikipedia plus a hopefully-one-day-complete engineering degree. Can't say I could make much of a non-piano score if I tried. But I *DID* write 12 measures of "Eine Kleine Würfelmusik" today after my engineering chemistry class! (By chance, you could say  )


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## Morimur

Arcane? I thought I recognized the writing style. You changed your name!


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## Guest

Morimur said:


> Arcane? I thought I recognized the writing style. You changed your name!


Oh lord, I have a "writing style"? Is it that bad?!


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## tortkis

Besides spatial effects, one of the advantages of separated groups each of which has a conductor is that each group can play at different tempo. I believe Ives used multiple tempos simultaneously. The effect can be heard with a stereo recording.

Also, not an orchestral work, but Kyle Gann's _Long Night_ is "for three nonsynchronized pianos at different tempos." Each pianist could use an independent (silent) metronome.


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