# Why are the majority here male?



## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

Although I've not been active around here for months, in the time that I do spend on here, I've not seen any females. Of course, this doesn't mean that women don't listen to classical music but it might mean that more men than women listen to classical music. Now if this true, then I'd like to know why. What attracts men to classical music? Personally, I like the feeling of power and control - these are associativly male characteristics are they not?


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## aszkid (May 12, 2013)

I feel no control when i listen to classical music. I feel little and insignificant.

I don't have the answer to your question, eitherway.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hell, there are women all over the place here. Some of them are even tolerable.


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## Jimm (Jun 29, 2012)

Vivaldi said:


> Although I've not been active around here for months, in the time that I do spend on here, I've not seen any females. Of course, this doesn't mean that women don't listen to classical music but it might mean that more men than women listen to classical music. Now if this true, then I'd like to know why. What attracts men to classical music? Personally, I like the feeling of power and control - these are associativly male characteristics are they not?


Men predominately hang out on internet forums such as these, and argue and geek out. For a larger female membership perhaps try forums oriented toward things such as babies, rearing kids, home renovation, gardening, pets, fashion or cooking. Oh and celebrity gossip.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vivaldi said:


> Although I've not been active around here for months, in the time that I do spend on here, I've not seen any females. Of course, this doesn't mean that women don't listen to classical music but it might mean that more men than women listen to classical music. Now if this true, then I'd like to know why. What attracts men to classical music? Personally, I like the feeling of power and control - these are associativly male characteristics are they not?


Sorry, but it has been pointed out that the male tendency to be a dweeb (N.B to self: include self, because it is true and to avoid assualt and hit contracts being taken out) leads more males to be online doing online stuff. Including joining fora, seeing how many arguments they can stir up, how many likes they can accumulate, how many they can convince of their auto-didact invented theorems, etc.

many women on line not only assume a pseudonym (so do men) but they assume one that is gender neutral or implies they are male. Seeing the 'good looking composers' thread where regardless of age a majority of males post pictures of the Madonna who has big boobies who plays the fiddle, giving off the vibe there are nothing but 12 to 15 year-old males on this forum, I'm sure does not encourage women to make themselves known as women.

Internet fora, gaming, mainly a Guy Thing.

Classical music, who knows?


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## Guest (May 17, 2013)

There are many women here. 4 of the 6 members on my freinds list are female. I gravitate toward them you see. However, if you are looking to find romance on TalkClassical you may be dissapointed. Also if you want to attract women I might suggest you put aside this harpsichord obsession before you drive them all into the hills. If I am mistaken and you would rather attract men, please forgive my presumption.


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## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

Not a surprise that you like to be in control, in 28 posts here you created 13 threads (and in many of them never came back to comment after creating it).


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Female here *raises hand*

Does everyone you actively speak to on the forum identify themselves to you as male, or do you automatically default in your mind to "male" if they don't specifically tell you otherwise?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Women listen to Shania Twain, etc


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Jimm said:


> For a larger female membership perhaps try forums oriented toward things such as babies, rearing kids, home renovation, gardening, pets, fashion or cooking.


_Heim und Herd_! A woman's role is hereby defined! :devil: And I thought that our side won...


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Jimm said:


> Men predominately hang out on internet forums such as these, and argue and geek out. For a larger female membership perhaps try forums oriented toward things such as babies, rearing kids, home renovation, gardening, pets, fashion or cooking. Oh and celebrity gossip.


I do believe a "tongue in cheek" smiley would be quite appropriate here, no? :scold:
At least I hope it would!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

samurai said:


> I do believe a "tongue in cheek" smiley would be quite appropriate here, no? :scold:
> At least I hope it would!


Maybe that would have been more appropriate if it read 'boys' - who can be of any age. Though if male, "man", I would think if you're much past the age of twelve, would be the better goal.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

For me, it makes no difference what the female/male ratio is here. We're here to discuss music not demographics.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Neo Romanza said:


> For me, it makes no difference what the female/male ratio is here. We're here to discuss music not demographics.


Some young people still cannot help but want at least to check the powers of their desirability.... though I think you'd have to be of a generation where the internet was omnipresent to even think that a good venue for such a test


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Women listen to Shania Twain, etc


...and only gay men listen to opera, because all gays are drama queens.

Let's just heap on all the negative cliche profiling there is and get it over with....


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The only thing that would make this thread perfect would be to make it a poll.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> ...and only gay men listen to opera.
> 
> Let's just heap on all the negative cliche profiling there is and get it over with....


This crowd live off clichés,also I knew I was different from the other boys always listening to that weirdy ,screechy opera stuff.
But my life is fuller than it ever was as I can listen to Catherine Jenkins night and day, now she's a real opera singer.
In any case I always thought that gay men preferred musicals with Barbara Streisand---that's certainly true as I heard it on the grapevine.
What am I doing up at 04.04 hours I ask myself ?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

bigshot said:


> The only thing that would make this thread perfect would be to make it a poll.


A genius idea. Done.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

KenOC said:


> _Heim und Herd_! A woman's role is hereby defined! :devil: And I thought that our side won...


But what if it _is_ true, at least where it concerns the dominance of women on the fashion, child-rearing etc. forums?

I think most female classical fans (I say most, because personally I happen to be in that minority which does enjoy abstract exchange of ideas with total strangers) are probably more interested in finding a nice guy nearby to go to classical concerts and to socialize with, as opposed to sharing their opinions about works and composers with other virtual entities hiding behind screen names and scattered all over the globe. You can talk about classical music to someone half the world away all you want, but you will never get to know him and he can't put his arm around you - waste of time in the female mind. Now, before you call me a chauvinist, I am a female too. It's just that I am already taken and don't need to go looking anymore


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

moody said:


> This crowd live off clichés,also I knew I was different from the other boys always listening to that weirdy ,screechy opera stuff.
> But my life is fuller than it ever was as I can listen to Catherine Jenkins night and day, now she's a real opera singer.
> In any case I always thought that gay men preferred musicals with Barbara Streisand---that's certainly true as I heard it on the grapevine.
> What am I doing up at 04.04 hours I ask myself ?


Because you're alone, male, a dweeb, and didn't have a date?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Because you're alone, male, a dweeb, and didn't have a date?


Probably because I'm 75 and too ill.but I can remember the great days of triumph.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

moody said:


> Probably because I'm 75 and too ill.but I can remember the great days of triumph.


I assume my great days of triumph lie before me. As soon as I get through the Leslie Howard Liszt box and the Scott Ross Scarlatti box, the line of nice ladies waiting for a chance to converse with me will surely go all the way down the stairs and around the corner.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I assume my great days of triumph lie before me. As soon as I get through the Leslie Howard Liszt box and the Scott Ross Scarlatti box, the line of nice ladies waiting for a chance to converse with me will surely go all the way down the stairs and around the corner.

Especially if you are wearing a pair of those great stilettos.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Especially if you are wearing a pair of those great stilettos.

Quote me in pink, if you please. Those stilettos represent the shallow materialism of my secular fate.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

science said:


> I assume my great days of triumph lie before me. As soon as I get through the Leslie Howard Liszt box and the Scott Ross Scarlatti box, the line of nice ladies waiting for a chance to converse with me will surely go all the way down the stairs and around the corner.


... with you running behind them shouting "come back!"? :lol:


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## Guest (May 18, 2013)

science said:


> Quote me in pink, if you please. Those stilettos represent the shallow materialism of my secular fate.


I thought the stilettos just meant you wished you had a wife who'd wear them!?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Jimm said:


> Men predominately hang out on internet forums such as these, and argue and geek out. For a larger female membership perhaps try forums oriented toward things such as babies, rearing kids, home renovation, gardening, pets, fashion or cooking. Oh and celebrity gossip.


Wow... yeah those sound REAL interesting


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

TalkingHead said:


> But you're not one of them, right?
> That was meant to be a joke, by the way. Are you a girl, HillTroll honey? It really doesn't matter either way to me.


I am going to refer to Hilltroll from now on as honey ^_^


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Women listen to Shania Twain, etc


...so do men o3o


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> I am going to refer to Hilltroll from now on as honey ^_^


Waitresses have been known to; I don't let it go to my head. In your case, t'would be the opposite of 'cradle-robbing'. The insult thing is a matter of elaborations on the theme.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> But what if it _is_ true, at least where it concerns the dominance of women on the fashion, child-rearing etc. forums?
> 
> I think most female classical fans (I say most, because personally I happen to be in that minority which does enjoy abstract exchange of ideas with total strangers) are probably more interested in finding a nice guy nearby to go to classical concerts and to socialize with, as opposed to sharing their opinions about works and composers with other virtual entities hiding behind screen names and scattered all over the globe. You can talk about classical music to someone half the world away all you want, but you will never get to know him and he can't put his arm around you - waste of time in the female mind. Now, before you call me a chauvinist, I am a female too. It's just that I am already taken and don't need to go looking anymore


Please speak only for yourself, not all women. Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you can't say something chauvinistic.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Waitresses have been known to; I don't let it go to my head. In your case, t'would be the opposite of 'cradle-robbing'. The insult thing is a matter of elaborations on the theme.


.......crypt-robbing? o3o

I kid, I kid, I kid. X3 I wasn't meaning honey as an insult anyway Hill :3 I do however think its one _sweet_ nickname :3

edit: I really am just joking, if that was too mean Hill, I'll change it.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

moody said:


> Probably because I'm 75 and too ill.but I can remember the great days of triumph.


*hug*

..............


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

BPS said:


> I thought the stilettos just meant you wished you had a wife who'd wear them!?


Ignorance is bliss !


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> I am going to refer to Hilltroll from now on as honey ^_^


From you it's allowed can't he see that ??


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

This thread is about the number of male versus female TC members. Please let's focus on that topic and refrain from negative comments about other TC members. Remember the Terms of Service:



> Be polite to your fellow members. If you disagree with them, please state your opinion in a »civil« and respectful manner.
> 
> Do not post comments about other members person or »posting style« on the forum (unless said comments are unmistakably positive). Argue opinions all you like but do not get personal and never resort to »ad homs«.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> This thread is about the number of male versus female TC members. Please let's focus on that topic and refrain from negative comments about other TC members. Remember the Terms of Service:


I have seen no negative or unpleasant comments here whatever and I have now read this thread through twice.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

moody said:


> I have seen no negative or unpleasant comments here whatever and I have now read this thread through twice.


That's because they have been deleted.


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## Guest (May 21, 2013)

Yes, I noticed that my some of my posts have been deleted. Ach, what the hell! I'm not going to sweat it. Saves me getting infractions due to complaints from the faint-hearted and feeble-minded.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

TalkingHead said:


> Yes, I noticed that my some of my posts have been deleted. Ach, what the hell! I'm not going to sweat it. Saves me getting infractions due to complaints from the faint-hearted and feeble-minded.


Hah. There were no complaints from _this_ faint&feeble; that would require using the Honey Button. Deletions don't save you from infractions though, they're part of the process.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Deletions don't save you from infractions though, they're part of the process.


This was the most dramatic deletion campaign I've yet seen here on TC. At least half of the original thread has been excised!


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## maestro57 (Mar 26, 2013)

Awww... I missed the drama.


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## Kcenter (May 17, 2013)

Nice. Thanks for getting that out there. Glad someone in this thread has a brain.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> That's because they have been deleted.


Yay for KGB tactics ^_^ So admirable.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Yay for KGB tactics ^_^ So admirable.


The "KGB tactic" would be to delete the poster along with the post.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> The "KGB tactic" would be to delete the poster along with the post.


Or, as they did in Pinochet's Chile, {I believe} simply "disappear them".


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Novelette said:


> This was the most dramatic deletion campaign I've yet seen here on TC. At least half of the original thread has been excised!


Good heavens,you have better eyes and memory than I have.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> The "KGB tactic" would be to delete the poster along with the post.


What a good idea!!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Yay for KGB tactics ^_^ So admirable.


You are a chancer--I don't want to lose you so quickly already.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> The "KGB tactic" would be to delete the poster along with the post.


That isn't beyond them.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Novelette said:


> This was the most dramatic deletion campaign I've yet seen here on TC. At least half of the original thread has been excised!


Yes, I came on here briefly last night & couldn't understand what the big red warning was about. I remembered a little bit of argy-bargy going on, but nothing very nasty. It's like Exodus, the Egyptians all trogging along very nicely and then millions of frogs land on them from above...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Please speak only for yourself, not all women. Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you can't say something chauvinistic.


And just what is chauvinistic about saying that women are generally more people-oriented than abstract-ideas-oriented?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I think a thread like this is meant to be based on our experience of life. It shouldn't be taken that we are inscribing in stone what characteristics *all* the members of a sex have. 

I have known lots of women who went in for abstract ideas, and lots of men who are interested in people and what makes them tick. 

But I do find the men of my acquaintance *in general* less able to pick up the nuances of a conversation & to see the thing from the other person's point of view; and for abstract ideas, I note in myself that though I am an intelligent person, I think, I have a little switch in my brain that clicks off when two academics start to debate epistemology.

The main thing about these debates is that they should be good-humoured, surely. Mock-insults are one thing, heavy-handed accusations another.

To quote Rabbie Burns: 'O wad some pow'r the giftie gie us to see ourselves as ithers see us!'


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> And just what is chauvinistic about saying that women are generally more people-oriented than abstract-ideas-oriented?


I was just saying that simply being a woman doesn't make something a person says any less chauvinistic, if its a chauvinistic thing. To that statement though, first I'd argue that understanding people is an abstract kinda thing, and I'd argue its a bad idea to try and ascribe something like that to such a large group of people. I think it is best to speak for oneself, and not make such broad statements.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I'd be interested to know how you know who is male and who is female from all the members here.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

I like the uncertainty; I'm often wrong and it amuses me.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Delicious Manager said:


> I'd be interested to know how you know who is male and who is female from all the members here.


Actually, it's interesting to guess from nicknames whether a poster is male or female. Of course, we have recourse to their profiles, which takes two seconds to reveal, for example, that _*Hilltroll *_is a bloke, but when that's not an option...


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Cheyenne said:


> I like the uncertainty; I'm often wrong and it amuses me.


Not only that, if you look at this post and then at this one you'll see that the members like to keep you guessing too


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I prefer to know if I'm 'conversing' with a man or a woman, personally. It does make a difference. I know I can indulge in my robust northern sense of humour with a man, for example. I thought I was obviously feminine, with the added e on my user-name, but I still got addressed as 'dude' one time. I didn't like it - still, I suppose I should be grateful the poster didn't miss the e off that one!

What throws me is when the avatar is of a male musician - or a female article, such as a stiletto - and it suggests a gender identity, but you just can't be sure.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> Yes, I came on here briefly last night & couldn't understand what the big red warning was about. I remembered a little bit of argy-bargy going on, but nothing very nasty. It's like Exodus, the Egyptians all trogging along very nicely and then millions of frogs land on them from above...


That was no frog that was my ole friend Hilltroll.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> I prefer to know if I'm 'conversing' with a man or a woman, personally. It does make a difference. I know I can indulge in my robust northern sense of humour with a man, for example. I thought I was obviously feminine, with the added e on my user-name, but I still got addressed as 'dude' one time. I didn't like it - still, I suppose I should be grateful the poster didn't miss the e off that one!
> 
> What throws me is when the avatar is of a male musician - or a female article, such as a stiletto - and it suggests a gender identity, but you just can't be sure.


I think I was the one who called you dude. I'm sorry if that bothered you  I think I was using it more as an exclamation rather than as a word to describe you. Like if I say "Dude, that was crazy", dude can be seen almost as a sort of synonym for "dang" or other far better, more interesting words that are too interesting for this site :3

And now I probably seem like some weird surfer girl. (I don't surf)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> I think I was the one who called you dude. I'm sorry if that bothered you  I think I was using it more as an exclamation rather than as a word to describe you. Like if I say "Dude, that was crazy", dude can be seen almost as a sort of synonym for "dang" or other far better, more interesting words that are too interesting for this site :3
> 
> And now I probably seem like some weird surfer girl. (I don't surf)




Well, that eliminates _one_ adjective.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, we have a lot of new people here, myself included, since this has been last discussed.

I have seen a lot of females join TC since I became a member last December.

However it "feels" like there are a lot more male members here on TC than female.

If I am correct, is that a reflection of classical listeners as a whole; that many more listeners are male? Why is that?

Also, do we have up to date percentages of male and female members, here on TC or is that something "unknown".


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I think that there are a lot of female members here on TC but perhaps they aren't as talkative or are too shy?

Then again i shouldn't judge. I think that both males and females do share equally their love of classical music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Maybe you are right. Seems the overwhelming presence on TC is male. Perhaps a lot of female members are simply lurkers.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Now, how would things be here if most classical music composers in history had been female? Quite different, I think.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I think because men love classical more than women do.It seems that women are less interested in classical music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

mtmailey said:


> I think because men love classical more than women do.It seems that women are less interested in classical music.


This is what I was getting into when I found this thread about 100 pages from the front and decided to revive it.
Are men simply more into classical music than women?

All I know is when I was dating, I had a hell of a time finding ANY female who had the slightest knowledge or interest in classical music.


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## Minona (Mar 25, 2013)

Testosterone makes men (and women) competitive in ways that are reflected in ridiculous threads like 'Beethoven vs Wagner' and the like, as though it were boxing or WWF wrestling problem. There are business women I know who actually take testosterone to become competitive in that sort of pathetic and pointless way, which helps in the crass business world.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I think plenty of women love classical music -- my wife for instance. But she'd never post here because she's too busy thumbing away on her smartphone on Facebook.


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## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

I don't buy it at all that there are more male classical music listeners than female. Girls are less likely to worry about it being for posh people, or not macho enough etc. So probably if anything there are more female listeners. I'd say the real reason is men are more into computers than women, and more likely to work with computers and to spend a long time at the computer. I think women are less likely to seek out online communities, they would rather face to face communication. I've known about forums for a very long time, but only recently decided to join in. I was previously a bit shy and self-conscious about writing on the internet for all to see.


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## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> Now, how would things be here if most classical music composers in history had been female? Quite different, I think.


No different, as there is no difference between the numbers of listeners. What about painters, poets, writers, philosophers...the best known ones were mainly men as well. Does that mean women don't want to know about them?

I think you're trying to be fair by saying it would be different if there were more female composers, but the idea that less women listen (without any real evidence) is insulting.

The distinction between male and female listeners seems arbitrary to me. Why don't we also look into tall and short or fat and thin listeners and make some observations...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I didn't read the five pages of posts, but in response to the original question, I have wondered just who is male and female. You get an impression from the avatar but that is not necessarily indicative of the gender of the TC member. So really, I have no idea how many here are male vs female. Maybe it has been posted above.


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## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

mtmailey said:


> I think because men love classical more than women do.It seems that women are less interested in classical music.


Your evidence being..?


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Ukko said:


> Hell, there are women all over the place here. Some of them are even tolerable.


Thank you, Ukko. 

You can't always tell if a member is male or female just by looking at the username and avatar. In theory, I could still be a man.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

marinasabina said:


> Thank you, Ukko.
> 
> You can't always tell if a member is male or female just by looking at the username and avatar. In theory, I could still be a man.


Not only that, the condition is not unalterable. I have discovered that the the neutral point is accessible via injection. It's a whole different world out here.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

There's no way of knowing the total of male and female posters active on TC.
However, I can recognize male and female writing styles and I can confidently say, there are more males posting on Classical Discussion than females.
I notice more female writing styles on Community Forum.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Most of us are male because most females would regard posting on a classical music blog as a complete waste of time.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yet we have quite a few. They don't seem to regard it as a waste of time. They post quite regularly and I admire them for it.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

hpowders said:


> There's no way of knowing the total of male and female posters active on TC.
> However, I can recognize male and female writing styles and I can confidently say, there are more males posting on Classical Discussion than females.
> I notice more female writing styles on Community Forum.


If the female comments are more pithy, then..... HP?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

marinasabina said:


> If the female comments are more pithy, then..... HP?


Not always. Three in particular like to write in multi-paragraphs.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> It varies, just like the males' posts. Some long. Some short, but recognizably feminine...


So you may think. I have it on good authority that one of our more ebullient female posters here is actually a fat hairy male slob in dirty underwear. Oh wait, that's me. Never mind.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> So you may think. I have it on good authority that one of our more ebullient female posters here is actually a fat hairy male slob in dirty underwear. Oh wait, that's me. Never mind.


Nah! Your writing style is overwhelmingly male.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Am I the only poster who has noticed? The "likes" thing seems to have vanished.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> if most classical music composers in history had been female?


We would have needed a domination- and control-oriented matriarchal world to have had major artists be mostly female.

---

In general, men are more intellectually oriented, which most of them assume to be a superior trait. (I said "intellectually oriented," not "intelligent.") They also like to compete more than women, again in general. An internet forum is a great venue to huff and puff, in anonymity, and show that you are a man. That's the main reason for more men writing on internet forums. IMO.

I am, of course, talking about the unbalanced (& isolated, wounded, fearful, angry) masculine energy that is still ascendant in the world, and not necessarily all beings in male human bodies. When the unbalanced (& neglected, trivialized, violated, angry) feminine energy and the aforementioned masculine energy recognize that they have been conned into believing in the unchangeable superiority of the competition-oriented patriarchy, things will begin to change. [Actually, things are changing now as we speak, whether you see it or not.]

So, I agree with this:


Musicforawhile said:


> The distinction between male and female listeners seems arbitrary to me. Why don't we also look into tall and short or fat and thin listeners and make some observations...


The original question asked:


Vivaldi said:


> Although I've not been active around here for months, in the time that I do spend on here, I've not seen any females. Of course, this doesn't mean that women don't listen to classical music but *it might mean that more men than women listen to classical music*. Now if this true, then I'd like to know why. What attracts men to classical music? Personally, I like the feeling of power and control - these are associativly male characteristics are they not?


Perhaps this was true in the past. Today, it is quite clearly not true.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Dufay said:


> We would have needed a domination- and control-oriented matriarchal world to have had major artists be mostly female.
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


So more men no longer listen to classical music these days than women? Concrete proof of this? All you are offering is an unsubstantiated opinion. How can anyone ever really know?

I don't believe "what kind of music do you listen to?" is on the list of census questions.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

hpowders said:


> However, I can recognize male and female writing styles


You need to teach us how, hpowders.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> You need to teach us how, hpowders.


 There's feminine writing traits and then there's mine.

Watch and learn:

I'll give you a lesson for free. Which sex uses "hahaha"?

I've seen it on TC a gazillion times. Dead giveaway.

Anything else, you pay for.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

hpowders said:


> It's instinctive. There's feminine writing traits and then there's mine.
> 
> I'll give you a lesson for free. Which sex uses "hahaha"?


Women! (right?)

Is it because women are shyer or have less of an ego or something and therefore use the more humble "hahaha"?

What are the other differences. TEACH US MASTER


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Women! (right?)
> 
> Is it because women are shyer or have less of an ego or something and therefore use the more humble "hahaha"?
> 
> What are the other differences. TEACH US MASTER


No. Nothing else will be revealed here. Just be glad I have the instinct; a gift.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

WHERE they post is a clue too.
You'll find the great majority of them in opera or community forum.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

hpowders said:


> So more men no longer listen to classical music these days than women? Concrete proof of this? All you are offering is an unsubstantiated opinion. How can anyone ever really know?
> 
> I don't believe "what kind of music do you listen to?" is on the list of census questions.


Huh? I meant not true in the sense that men and women both listen to classical music in about equal numbers. More to the point, it's a non-issue. The question is not entertained because it does not arise.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

The statement that men like 'x' more than women is usually wrong. I heard straight from my dear dad's mouth "Men like to eat more than women." as if it were an absolute fact.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Women are too smart to waste all of their money on classical music. They spend it at TJ Maxx.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

When I go to classical concerts, it seems about an even mix of women and men. Or at least, neither one is in such a majority that it's obvious to me.

There simply are more men on the internet in my experience. Every forum I post on whether it's a tech forum, classical music, or a TV-show specific forum is male-dominated.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

marinasabina said:


> The statement that men like 'x' more than women is usually wrong. I heard straight from my dear dad's mouth "Men like to eat more than women." as if it were an absolute fact.


Perhaps men are more likely to make overreaching blanket statements about the differences between men and women than women are? :lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> Perhaps men are more likely to make overreaching blanket statements about the differences between men and women than women are? :lol:


Hmmm... I don't know. I think every woman I've known has been quite ready to make blanket statements about men, especially right after having attempted to date one of us. You know, statements like "Oh! God! Men! They're all alike!", uttered while collapsing into a chair or throwing herself face first onto a bed. Occasionally women friends have said this directly to me, which I feel best taking as a compliment.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Woodduck said:


> Hmmm... I don't know. I think every woman I've known has been quite ready to make blanket statements about men, especially right after having attempted to date one of us. You know, statements like "Oh! God! Men! They're all alike!", uttered while collapsing into a chair or throwing herself face first onto a bed. Occasionally women friends have said this directly to me, which I feel best taking as a compliment.


I have observed this one once are twice...what negates it as a statement is that the woman involved usually go for the type of man who IS 'all alike' 

Men are more inclined to offer up opinions, solicited or otherwise, than women whose inclination is toward discussion rather than oration. Even as I type this I acknowledge that its a generalisation, and like most generalisations is only true some of the time.

Also the notion that men are more obsessive towards their interests, and are more likely to want to inform the public at large about the tiniest detail of their distraction, has to be considered. We can be right Gobshotes* when we want to be :lol:

*Please feel free to substitute the letter I for the letter O here...


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## pianississimo (Nov 24, 2014)

Shania Twain? I'd rather have my ears syringed with a machete!
I don't think it's the music. I think audiences at concerts are slightly more women than men. 
I see a lot of small groups of female friends out for the concerts as well as couples, but it doesn't seem to appeal to groups of men as much.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Tristan said:


> When I go to classical concerts, it seems about an even mix of women and men. Or at least, neither one is in such a majority that it's obvious to me.
> 
> There simply are more men on the internet in my experience. Every forum I post on whether it's a tech forum, classical music, or a TV-show specific forum is male-dominated.


I think this is the right answer.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

look at the clothing, craft sites.

And why are more men on the internet?

The majority here aren't men, the VAAASSSSSTTTT majority are men.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

science said:


> I think this is the right answer.


So do I.

He likes dealing with other minds. She prefers dealing with whole people.

Oops! I guess I'm one of those overreaching men Mahlerian was talking about.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2014)

I don't know anything about men or women.

I do know a few things about Andy and Gordana and Dan and Teresa, for example.

Men and women, though?

Naw.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> So do I.
> 
> He likes dealing with other minds. She prefers dealing with whole people.
> 
> Oops! I guess I'm one of those overreaching men Mahlerian was talking about.


I am 90% sure that Mahlerian is aware of the irony in that question. .... 80%


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## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

Dufay said:


> In general, men are more intellectually oriented, which most of them assume to be a superior trait. (I said "intellectually oriented," not "intelligent.")


And women are oriented more in what way, would you say?


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2014)

Some of the more intellectually oriented (is that even a thing?) people I've known were named Sharon and Dorothy and Leslie and Kirk and Mel and Ricardo. 

Some of the least intellectually oriented people I've known were named Leslie (different Leslie) and Sharon (different Sharon) and Helen and Franklin and Andrew and Scott.

All but two are (or were) quite nice people, fun to hang out with. 

The most intelligent person I've ever met is named Alisa.

What I would conclude from that is that neither intelligence nor intellectual orientation is gender specific.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ukko said:


> Hell, there are women all over the place here. Some of them are even tolerable.


Names? Phone numbers?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Perhaps men are more likely to make overreaching blanket statements about the differences between men and women than women are? :lol:


Not really. I think it's just the opposite. Men are more emotionally reserved in general and don't communicate as easily as women can.

I believe women are the usual one's with a long laundry list of complaints against the "male race" rather than vice versa. 

I find this thread "amusing". Sneezing, however, from all the "dander". :lol:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Names? Phone numbers?


Are you purposefully impersonating a woman with your new avatar in order to throw more confusion into this thread. Are you man, woman, child, or brain-in-a-jar on the shelf of Dr. Frankenstein's lab?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Are there more of us females around than when this thread started? It certainly seems so. Or maybe we don't mind admitting our gender now. Some internet forums I find a bit scary, but TalkClassical has a lovely atmosphere - usually - suitable for human beings of every type imaginable. I think my Airedale would have liked it here too...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> Are you purposefully impersonating a woman with your new avatar in order to throw more confusion into this thread. Are you man, woman, child, or brain-in-a-jar on the shelf of Dr. Frankenstein's lab?


I dedicate the changing of the avatar to the new "likes" system. Forever shall it reign!!


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I dedicate the changing of the avatar to the new "likes" system. Forever shall it reign!!


I love your new avatar hpowders! Forever shall it reign indeed hahaha.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> I love your new avatar hpowders! Forever shall it reign indeed hahaha.


Thanks. I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

It's interesting to note the tendency in this thread to downgrade public discussion.
That's a trend in society at large these days, the "anti-coagulation" effect around
great causes. If people discussing important subjects like classical music is looked
down on, that should itself be looked down on.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. Anti-coagulation. Makes my blood boil!


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2014)

To answer the OP ("Why are the majority here male?") : I have no idea.
Nevertheless, I can say that the majority (with two or three notable exceptions) are homo sapiens.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> So do I.
> 
> He likes dealing with other minds. She prefers dealing with whole people.
> 
> Oops! I guess I'm one of those overreaching men Mahlerian was talking about.


It's not that at all, man. It's that the anonymity of the internet allows a few men to act like total jerks, even worse than they'd be in normal life, and any person on the internet known to be a woman occasionally has to deal with that, and occasionally they decide that it's not worth it.

It has nothing to do with intellectual capacity or a lack of interest in classical music.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Is it actually true that there are more males around here? Do we have an official count?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Is it actually true that there are more males around here? Do we have an official count?


Yes. There are 7 confirmed males and one mail daemon.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I know a few ladies who like classical music, but most don't have any interest in the internet. Come to think of it, most ladies I know don't even have a computer. They have phones to check their Facebook, and maybe do a little shopping, but that's about all they use it for.

Maybe it's just that "men are more likely to be sitting around on a forum on the internet"? 

Kind of like walking into the old corner store and seeing a bunch of old men sitting there drinking coffee discussing world politics.


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## BillT (Nov 3, 2013)

I think there's more males listening to classical music than females because males are more often introverted and females are more often extroverted. 

Mind you, I don't have data to support this, but that has never stopped me from having my set opinions!

- Bill


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

realdealblues said:


> Kind of like walking into the old corner store and seeing a bunch of old men sitting there drinking coffee discussing world politics.


 Yeah, and they would play checkers on top of a keg of flower. Maybe we can have a checker board feature in the corner of the TC page for members to have ongoing games while they discuss music.


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Is it actually true that there are more males around here? Do we have an official count?


Oh. Oh no. Now I have an unbearable yearning to see statistics about Talk Classical. Maybe I should ease my yearning by calculating something from the example datasets for R. That might provide temporary relief.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> Oh. Oh no. Now I have an unbearable yearning to see statistics about Talk Classical. Maybe I should ease my yearning by calculating something from the example datasets for R. That might provide temporary relief.


Hehe, a mathematician?


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Hehe, a mathematician?


Not at all. I just enjoy a good dose of statistics every now and then - but then again: who doesn't? When I did my introductory statistics courses, I found some of the exercises to have this almost zen like quality to them: I would drink chamomile tea and listen to classical music while calculating and drawing scatter plots and linear regression lines by hand. Making everything as neat as possible. Using different colours for different symbols. That's incredibly relaxing. I recommend it for stress relief for anyone.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

Musicforawhile said:


> And women are oriented more in what way, would you say?


Slightly more toward feeling things out than thinking... I guess you could say more intuitive.

But it's not useful to think of them as male and female traits, other than in energetic terms of masculine and feminine. I think of intuition and intellect as aspects of being that work well when combined in equal measure.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> I love your new avatar hpowders! Forever shall it reign indeed hahaha.


I couldn't work out a rental agreement, so I had to change the avatar. Do you know who my new one is?

62% male, 23% female, 15% undecided, are perusing this post.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

For me, what is most important is that TC is encouraging and hospitable to our female members and that male members do not discourage women here from speaking their minds. And my experiences here have proven this to be the case strongly. I am just glad to have a safe haven to discuss classical music without impunity.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

As it's fairly easy to pretend to be either male or female, I'm not sure how you tell, for sure. Of course, over time, you can generally begin to trust the truth of what people claim, but that doesn't apply to all, and some posters never explicitly let on.

I remain to be convinced that all who have declared a gender are what they declare!



Sonata said:


> Female here *raises hand*
> 
> Does everyone you actively speak to on the forum identify themselves to you as male, or do you automatically default in your mind to "male" if they don't specifically tell you otherwise?


Now you ask, I'm sure I automatically default to male, but I don't think it makes any difference, since I have no particular expectation as a consequence of that default. I'm not actually confounded by having to change the picture of the beer-swilling, belching, loud-mouth with whom I have been conversing to a vision of loveliness!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

A female friend of mine from this forum, who no longer posts here, told me it was because the forum was rife with unchecked misogyny and yet people get banned or warned for swearing. She probably won't claim to speak for all women here, but that was her issue with it. I personally also think she's just moved on and has lost interest in posting here.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

MacLeod said:


> As it's fairly easy to pretend to be either male or female, I'm not sure how you tell, for sure. Of course, over time, you can generally begin to trust the truth of what people claim, but that doesn't apply to all, and some posters never explicitly let on.
> 
> I remain to be convinced that all who have declared a gender are what they declare!
> 
> Now you ask, I'm sure I automatically default to male, but I don't think it makes any difference, since I have no particular expectation as a consequence of that default. I'm not actually confounded by having to change the picture of the beer-swilling, belching, loud-mouth with whom I have been conversing to a vision of loveliness!


On another forum it transpired that it was generally understood, apparently, that my gender was, er, not my gender. I remained bemused how this had been arrived at.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. Several female posters have complained to me too about the misogyny situation.
I absolutely adore the female posters I regularly communicate with on TC. 
They bring my posting inspiration "up a notch!" :tiphat:


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2014)

Sexism ain't pretty, not even the bits of it that aren't misogynistic.

We're people, people. Some of us are femaie; some of us are male. OK. So what?

Each of us gets treated as an individual, and nobody gets hurt. 

Easy.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I guess I have assumed there are more male than female members but don't want to speculate on why. 

I have sometimes wondered about the gender of other forum members when they don't make this clear but I haven't tried to find out. The obvious step of checking profiles hadn't occurred to me. Now that it has, I still don't think I will do it. If someone chooses not to foreground their gender I am happy with not knowing.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I guess the inevitable follow-up questions are whether we want this place to be more welcoming and comfortable for women, and if so, what we might do to make it so.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2014)

"We" being who? Us males? Male being the norm, the default?

I would rather that the question had never arisen, that no one had ever wondered about the distribution of gender.

That is, I would rather that we simply be individuals with a passion for and ideas about music, regardless of our genders. That the music be the focus, not the posters.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Musicforawhile said:


> No different, as there is no difference between the numbers of listeners. What about painters, poets, writers, philosophers...the best known ones were mainly men as well. Does that mean women don't want to know about them?
> 
> I think you're trying to be fair by saying it would be different if there were more female composers, but the idea that less women listen (without any real evidence) is insulting.
> 
> The distinction between male and female listeners seems arbitrary to me. Why don't we also look into tall and short or fat and thin listeners and make some observations...


Oh, I have to clear this up a bit, then! My idea is that completely independent on the actual numbers, the actual gender ratio of CM listeners, there might be _more_ women listeners if there had been more women composers. Even if the ratio was something like 90% women listeners already! Of course women are interested in the works of male artists (and vice versa), but I think that often gender places certain guidelines in art - guidelines that most certainly _can_ be ignored - guidelines affecting both creators and perceptors. No one is a genderless, raceless, historyless, neutral creator or viewer; these things affect us. They do not enslave us but they affect us nonetheless. So, while a male artist _can_ achieve insight into female perspective of things, a female artist might be more _likely_ to achieve that perspective, simply because it's an experience that she's living, not imagining. I do not want to classify artists and the public into tiny, tidy, exclusive cells, quite the contrary. But I think that a shared experience is a thing that exists, and it can be expressed in art.


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## candi (Nov 15, 2014)

realdealblues said:


> They have phones to check their Facebook


aaahhh...I hate facepork more than I hate smart phones. However, i did like my friend's ipad, I'd play skeeball on it and take over all her high scores. Otherwise, the ipad is garbage too.

Except for skeeball. 
That was good.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I really would like to make a comment about inherent misogyny, but it gives me a headache just thinking down to their level. Same for the Misandrenists. Im going to go listen to some more Saint-Saens instead.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I didn't even know what misogyny meant 'til I came here...it's so entirely innocent I am.:angel:


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