# If you had to choose one composer to be your teacher



## Guest (Feb 4, 2019)

Could be composition, or an instrument of your choice. 

Liszt's masterclasses seem rather alluring to me tbh.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Schoenberg..........


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Kurtág. But since I've no talent for music, he'd dismiss me right away. :lol:


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Victor Herbert. Oh, how I'd like to be able to write tunes, harmony and orchestrate like he did.


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## Zofia (Jan 24, 2019)

Arvo Pärt because I met him before summer time 3 and 2 years ago IRL. He is such a kind man you could trust. I think most older composers would be too much touchy...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Prokofiev. An impossible choice, because he would be constitutionally incapable, I think, of teaching anybody anything due to his assertive, aggressive personality. But what one could learn of so many genres he had mastered, plus his mastery of the piano.

"It's supposed to sound like _this_, you idiot!"


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Unless I was advanced as a composer, probably none of the greats. It would probably be a waste of their time unless they were already teaching at a university, which occasionally happens, such as Schoenberg, who's already been mentioned. Gershwin knew Ravel and Ralph Vaughan Williams studied with Ravel, so sometimes the big names will help someone else if the desire is strong enough. But forgetting all that, it would be fascinating to study with Mahler, who could write miraculous things at command when he was not conducting... It would be fascinating to hear what he learned from the composers he liked and to study orchestration because I consider him one of the greatest ever, if not the greatest, for being able to express whatever he felt in his heart. Even when he was writing something complex, he seemed technically able to express himself in an effortless way just like a Mozart who was perhaps his favorite composer. Mahler’s famous last words were, “Mozart!, Mozart!”


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Film composer Max Steiner studied with Mahler and said he was a terrible teacher. Really learned nothing.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Leonard Bernstein, a true scholar.

Other choices?:
Robert Fuchs
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
Nikolai Myaskovsky
Vissarion Shebalin
Shostakovich
Heino Eller


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I certainly wouldn't want one of the great composers to be buy teacher because they would be so much above me artistically that I just wouldn't benefit from them. I remember going to some Brendel masterclasses. He began with the Hammerklavier sonata! Somewhat out of my league!

There is the [apocryphal?] story that Gershwin asked Stravinsky for some lessons. When Stravinsky found out how much Gershwin earned he said, "I need lessons off of you!"


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Larkenfield said:


> Unless I was advanced as a composer, probably none of the greats. It would probably be a waste of their time unless they were already teaching at a university, which occasionally happens, such as Schoenberg, who's already been mentioned. *Both George Gershwin and Ralph Vaughan Williams studied with Ravel*, so sometimes the big names will help someone else if the desire is strong enough. But forgetting all that, it would be fascinating to study with Mahler, who could write miraculous things at command when he was not conducting... It would be fascinating to hear what he learned from the composers he liked and to study orchestration because I consider him one of the greatest ever, if not the greatest, for being able to express whatever he felt in his heart. Even when he was writing something complex, he seemed technically able to express himself in an effortless way just like a Mozart who was perhaps his favorite composer. His famous last words were, "Mozart!, Mozart!"


Not sure about Gershwin, but legend has it that when he asked to study with Ravel, Ravel rejected him saying "_Why become a second-rate Ravel when you are already a first-rate Gershwin?_". Is there really evidence that Gershwin studied with Ravel then?


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I could dream of this: Master of Music Performance Technology at the Norwegian State Academy. The leader of the department is professor Natasha Barrett. So that's electroacoustic composition. I think I meet the requirements! I'm off


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

jdec said:


> Is there really evidence that Gershwin studied with Ravel then?


None. Ravel suggested Gershwin study with Nadia Boulanger and wrote a letter to her recommending the "profoundly talented" Gershwin as a student. Boulanger turned Gershwin down for much the same reason reportedly given by Ravel, i.e. she did not want to disturb his natural musical talent. Gershwin then approached Jacques Ibert, asking to study orchestration with him. Ibert "had trouble imagining that a musician of his quality would need advice from me."


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Two spring to mind both for piano - J S Bach - his inventions, French & English Suites and WTC make for an ideal course - and Bartok - his Mikrokosmos represents another outstanding course - both moving away from tonality into modality and also paying homage to Bach.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The story of Gershwin and Ravel may be apocryphal, but after Ravel's American tour and Gershwin's visit to Paris, the two did form a mutual admiration society. Gershwin was drawn to French music, just as Ravel was drawn to American jazz-and Gershwin's mid-1920s works, Rhapsody in Blue and the Piano Concerto in F. Now which one of you knows exactly what they talked about? While in New York, Ravel spent a number of nights with Gershwin listening to jazz in Harlem. They knew each other and no one knows exactly about the details of their conversations, but I doubt if they never picked each other's brain for a moment about the secrets of their success, considering Gershwin's great interest in orchestration, but formal study evidently not. Here's more on the time they spent together and I would imagine it was a thrill for both of them: https://csosoundsandstories.org/fascinatin-rhythm-when-ravel-met-gershwin-in-jazz-age-new-york/

Ralph Vaughan Williams studied with Ravel for three months in 1908 and greatly profited with a new self-confidence. They were also friends on other levels because both had been in the First World War:

"Ravel's friendship with VW lasted, in the letters, until 1919 (only Ravel's side of the correspondence survives), and their closeness is revealed in missives like this postcard from June 1916. (There's also an earlier postcard in the collection that Ravel sent from Newcastle, asking to be put up by the Vaughan Williamses at their home in Chelsea: Ravel on the Tyne sounds unlikely, but it happened!) Ravel had wanted to be an air-bomber, but was rejected because he was too small; he was finally allowed to become an ambulance driver, and he saw and experienced the horrors of the front-line at first hand (the postcard tells Vaughan Williams that his vehicle had broken down, and that he is 'very tired' - a euphemism for the terror we now know he went through). VW was a stretcher-bearer, who also knew the unimaginable tragedies of the trenches. And both of them made their war-time experiences part of their music in ways that are all the more moving by being implicitly felt rather than explicitly exposed: Vaughan Williams in his Pastoral Symphony, and Ravel in his Tombeau de Couperin." :angel:


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Ligeti, no doubt. Arguably the most influential composer of the last 30 years.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

If I could have been educated since my childhood, then I would want to have J.S. Bach as my teacher. He must have been such a great one - I mean, look at his sons: both C.P.E. and J.C. were incredible influential in the Classical period, and are still remembered today not only as Sebastian's sons but also as great composers. Would they be such accomplished musicians if not by have been educated by such a genius father?


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> The story of Gershwin and Ravel may be apocryphal, but after Ravel's American tour and Gershwin's visit to Paris, the two did form a mutual admiration society.


Ravel said he found some of Gershwin's work "intriguing" but Gershwin's admiration for Ravel was definitely qualified. He called Ravel a superb master of technique, but opined that his work lacked inspiration. When his interlocutor suggested that this was possibly because he is French, Gershwin responded "Never! Debussy is one of the most profound composers of his time."


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Felix Mendelssohn!


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

I've changed my mind today. I'd like Mozart as a teacher. He'd also probably be a laugh and very interesting. If I get to go back in time for this experiment I want to see that starling he had as a pet.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Without putting too much thought into it, maybe Bartok.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Max Reger, who was a fine musician and apparently a respected teacher with a lively wit. Also he was a specialist in fugue, passacaglia and variation form which, if I were able to compose, I might have a special interest in (if my listening habits are anything to go by). One proviso - he would have to keep off the beer or else I might be too tempted to drink with him and risk not getting enough work done.

Paul Hindemith would be another contender.


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

Considering the musical greats who studied under Nadia Boulanger, she would be my choice as a teacher.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Clara Schumann.

I'm male.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Probably Haydn; he seems like he'd be the most friendly and understanding. I don't know how fast I'd take to learning the rules of composition and I wouldn't want to feel like I was moving too slowly for them. Being a great composer doesn't necessarily mean they'd have the patience and sympathy to be a good teacher. It seems like a lot of great composers could be impatient and difficult to get along with at times. There's one of example of Thomas Attwood submitting his completed voice leading exercises to Mozart and Mozart crossing out two of them and writing next to them "You are an @ss!" Though he may have meant it affectionately. Some people thrive under teachers who are very harsh, but I don't think I would.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mozart

So much work in so little time, Genius .


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

trazom said:


> Probably Haydn; he seems like he'd be the most friendly and understanding.


Beethoven seems to have been disappointed with his lessons with Haydn. There is evidence that Haydn was preoccupied with his upcoming London visit and paid scant attention to correcting Ludwig's exercises. Beethoven contracted separately for lessons from Albrechtsberger and later from Salieri, and said to a friend, "I learned nothing from Haydn."


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Beethoven seems to have been disappointed with his lessons with Haydn. There is evidence that Haydn was preoccupied with his upcoming London visit and paid scant attention to correcting Ludwig's exercises. Beethoven contracted separately for lessons from Albrechtsberger and later from Salieri, and said to a friend, "I learned nothing from Haydn."


I still think Beethoven learned something from those dark, portentous opening utterances that begin many of Haydn's London symphonies--pre-Beethovian thunder and lightning that suddenly breaks into merry song and dance. LvB said to himself, "I can use this and I like it!" and the rest is history.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Fanny Waterman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Waterman

A legendary piano teacher, and old enough to have known Mozart personally.

Also she lives nearby, so the bus fares to lessons would be reasonable.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Looking at things purely hypothetically, since I'm not trained in music, I would go with composers who fit my temperament: Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Bloch, Messiaen, Milhaud, Sculthorpe come readily to mind. I know that I simply wouldn't get along with more driven and egotistical personalities.

As has been mentioned, Nadia Boulanger turned out students who would go on to be stars of classical music. Another one with a good hit rate in this regard was Charles Villiers Stanford. Some illustrious students include Vaughan Williams, Holst, Bliss, Bridge and Australia's Arthur Benjamin. Although he had results as a teacher, Stanford's personality was eccentric to say the least. I'm not sure if he'd survive on a campus today, even in those days without formal codes of conduct for employees, he stood out. 

Benjamin reminisced how Stanford (a staunch Irish unionist) chided him for not being up to date on the political debates between Irish and English. "Well, go home and learn about it, and ye'll be a better composer." Then there's Stanford's so-called analysis of a piece that Benjamin showed him to get an opinion on: "You Jews can't write long tunes. Always two-bar and four-bar phrases, repeated! Look at Mendelssohn, look at Meyerbeer, look at Wagner!" The latter probably tongue in cheek, obviously due to Wagner's hatred of the cultural group which Benjamin happened to come from. Nevertheless, Benjamin considered Stanford to be a great teacher.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

science said:


> Without putting too much thought into it, maybe Bartok.


Or Zoltan Kodaly (Kabalevsky even).


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I'd like Vivaldi to teach me the violin. I'm sure he'd be a good teacher who could do his best with the materials at hand as he worked so well with the girls' orphanage. Of course, I still probably wouldn't be much cop - but who cares, if I get to meet Vivaldi!


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