# Mozart String Quartets



## FiNkLeS

I did do a search and found a thread that wasn't _exactly_ what I was looking for so I started a new thread.

I own the Brilliant Classics Complete Mozart and I am very happy with it (of course). I went out on a limb after doing some research and picked up the Complete Symphonies by Hogwood and I must say I prefer the Hogwood symphonies.

Essentially I want to know if there's a HIP performance collection of Mozart's complete string quartets (yes, even those early ones).

Any advice on this subject would be helpful, ie, the late quartets by so-and-so, early by another, or anything like that. Not strictly HIP but I do prefer it over the more standard version.

Help a newbie out:tiphat:


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## haydnfan

Quartet Mosaiques is a PI ensemble that has recorded at least the mature quartets, I don't know if they did the earlier ones. Quartet Festetics has recorded all of them but hard to find now. I've heard them on Naxos Music Library.


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## Ukko

haydnfan said:


> Quartet Mosaiques is a PI ensemble that has recorded at least the mature quartets, I don't know if they did the earlier ones. Quartet Festetics has recorded all of them but hard to find now. I've heard them on Naxos Music Library.


Note to the OP: The thing with the HIP recordings is that, even if you like the PI sound, you are subjected to those interpretations.



I recommend an alternative course: locate and listen to the recordings of the quartets dedicated to Haydn, performed by the Bartók Quartet.


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## Vaneyes

I think the Mozart "Haydn Quartets" is a good suggestion, and also to consider performance alternative. Here's a set that's accessible and affordable, with exceptional performances and sound.


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## 1648

Avoid the Quatuor Festetics - unless you're looking for that "prima vista" chamber music evening atmosphere 

I'd go for the Hagen Quartett box on DG (all of the string quartets, plus a few divertimenti and various fugue arrangements) and - if you need a HIP set - the Quatuor Mosaiques box of the final 10 string quartets (if you can find it). Though the Hagens play on modern instruments their approach isn't that different from the Mosaiques (perhaps a bit less noble and more spontaneous), which is hardly surprising given their artistic outlook was shaped by the same teachers (Végh & Harnoncourt).


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## haydnfan

I think that the Hagen Quartett performances sound overly loud and contrasty. They seem to think that they are performing Carter or Bartok instead of Mozart. Good for a cheap thrill, but easily the worst box set available.


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## 1648

haydnfan said:


> I think that the Hagen Quartett performances sound overly loud and contrasty. They seem to think that they are performing Carter or Bartok instead of Mozart. Good for a cheap thrill, but easily the worst box set available.


 Worse than the sloppy, coddled, out-of-tune Amadeus Quartet box set? Hardly.

Mozart is all about contrast, if the recordings are too loud for you - turn the volume down. Or did you mean to imply their dynamics were too wide?


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## Ukko

*Dissension in the ranks*

Quote Originally Posted by haydnfan:
I think that the Hagen Quartett performances sound overly loud and contrasty. They seem to think that they are performing Carter or Bartok instead of Mozart. Good for a cheap thrill, but easily the worst box set available.



1648 said:


> Worse than the sloppy, coddled, out-of-tune Amadeus Quartet box set? Hardly.
> 
> Mozart is all about contrast, if the recordings are too loud for you - turn the volume down. Or did you mean to imply their dynamics were too wide?


Harumph. The AQ is not mentioned in polite society (not to be confused with the _Amadeus Ensemble_, which is well respected by the cognoscenti).

My own impression of the Hagen Sound is that it is better suited to modern, tonally 'aggressive' music than to Haydn or Mozart; similar to the Arditti, with slightly softer edges. How much of this effect is due to the recording engineer, I dunno.


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## 1648

Hilltroll72 said:


> Harumph. The AQ is not mentioned in polite society (not to be confused with the _Amadeus Ensemble_, which is well respected by the cognoscenti).


 He insulted _my_ Hagens, I had to resort to drastic measures!



Hilltroll72 said:


> My own impression of the Hagen Sound is that it is better suited to modern, tonally 'aggressive' music than to Haydn or Mozart; similar to the Arditti, with slightly softer edges.


 I take it you like your spicy dishes searing hot and the desserts sickly sweet, yes? 

Well, I don't. I believe there's more than plush Rococo sing-song to Mozart and Haydn (those few rumps and bumps make the lyrical bits all the sweeter!), just like I'm convinced there's more to adequately performing modern music than cold, sharp ascetic precision (Boulez in Webern - why, _why_?).


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## haydnfan

1648 said:


> Worse than the sloppy, coddled, out-of-tune Amadeus Quartet box set? Hardly.
> 
> Mozart is all about contrast, if the recordings are too loud for you - turn the volume down. Or did you mean to imply their dynamics were too wide?


Yeah the dynamics are too wide. I did not know that the Amadeus Q set came back in print... I take that back then.


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## Ukko

*Interpretations, string tone, gestalt...*

(from 1648: I take it you like your spicy dishes searing hot and the desserts sickly sweet, yes?)

There are gradations. I like 'hot' dishes (notably Mexican) and certainly have a sweet tooth (preferably natural sweeteners), but there are limits, both for food and for music.

I have the feeling sometimes that I'm 'getting' Webern, but I never have that delusion with Boulez.

The string quartet ensembles that I tend to rely on to make anything they choose to record comprehensible to me are the Petersen, and to a lesser extent the Mann-led Julliard. There are other ensembles that I like better for certain things...


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## 1648

haydnfan said:


> Yeah the dynamics are too wide.


 Why? Because under their bows the sections and voices marked _(*f*)*orte*_ actually sound loud _and_ strong, doing full justice to the dynamic as well as the expressive connotations of the word? How dare they make Mozart not boring! :lol:

I'd like to hear your other, non-HIP favorites though.



Hilltroll72 said:


> There are gradations. I like 'hot' dishes (notably Mexican) and certainly have a sweet tooth (preferably natural sweeteners), but there are limits, both for food and for music.
> 
> I have the feeling sometimes that I'm 'getting' Webern, but I never have that delusion with Boulez.
> 
> The string quartet ensembles that I tend to rely on to make anything they choose to record comprehensible to me are the Petersen, and to a lesser extent the Mann-led Julliard. There are other ensembles that I like better for certain things...


 Aren't we drifting off-topic? I thought this was a Mozart thread.


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## Ukko

1648 said:


> Why? Because under their bows the sections and voices marked _(*f*)*orte*_ actually sound loud _and_ strong, doing full justice to the dynamic as well as the expressive connotations of the word? How dare they make Mozart not boring! :lol:
> 
> I'd like to hear your other, non-HIP favorites though.


Rumor has it that the major impetus behind the modifications to the violin, viola and cello in the early 19th C. was to enable louder fortes. Mozart's _f_ indications had the Baroque instruments in mind. Therefor...


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## 1648

Hilltroll72 said:


> Rumor has it that the major impetus behind the modifications to the violin, viola and cello in the early 19th C. was to enable louder fortes. Mozart's _f_ indications had the Baroque instruments in mind. Therefor...


...e we can conclude that the pp to f palette Mozart usually employs in his string quartets should be relative to the overall volume of the ensemble and its instruments, consequently the Hagens' pianos and fortes are both louder than those of the Mosaiques - whose gut-stringed instruments (not all of them are "unmodified" period ones) project a sharply-contoured, overtone-rich sound even at a slighter volume. In a way the Hagens _are_ compensating for the duller tone of their instruments with unusually clear-cut rhythmic articulation, not necessarily to the music's detriment in my opinion - Mozart often sounds mushy in the hands of "traditional" quartets.

That aside, dismissing a performance of the Mozart quartets because the overall dynamic proportions might be slightly off would strike me as rather pedantic.


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## haydnfan

1648 said:


> I'd like to hear your other, non-HIP favorites though.


Alban Berg Quartett on Teldec is my favorite. I also have a recording of the Melos Quartet that I really like.


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## Vaneyes

If I may be slightly OT, with the suggestion of a single CD...


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## Ukko

_Very_ slightly OT, and a fine ensemble. Neither quartet quite works for me, but that is my problem, not theirs.


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## Conor71

1648 said:


> Worse than the sloppy, coddled, out-of-tune Amadeus Quartet box set? Hardly.
> 
> Mozart is all about contrast, if the recordings are too loud for you - turn the volume down. Or did you mean to imply their dynamics were too wide?


Hehe, I really like the Amadeus Quartet set!


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## Ukko

I was around to read _The Day of the Triffids_ when it was new. The tie-in to your 'He-He' is your choice.

:devil:


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## Conor71

Hilltroll72 said:


> I was around to read _The Day of the Triffids_ when it was new. The tie-in to your 'He-He' is your choice.
> 
> :devil:


Just amused by how different my tastes must be to 1648 or how poor my taste probably is!  - no disrepect intended to yourself or other more experienced listeners on the board


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## Ukko

Conor71 said:


> Just amused by how different my tastes must be to 1648 or how poor my taste probably is!  - no disrepect intended to yourself or other more experienced listeners on the board


No offense taken  . I make no particular judgment re _1648_'s tastes, but he does seem inordinately proud of them.

Some people think rap is music. That doesn't make me feel superior - just puzzled. That some people think the _Amadeus_ and or the_ Kodaly_ are great quartet ensembles is much less puzzling.


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## 1648

I don't mind the Amadeus Quartet actually, I merely felt like putting the pedantic (in my opinion) dismissal of haydnfan into into perspective, all the more so because he recommended the Quatuor Festetics.


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## haydnfan

Actually I didn't recommend Festetics, that set is the only complete PI set, which is what the OP asked for. My recommendation is for the Alban Berg Quartet, who find the emotional heart of Mozart without the superficial tactics employed by the Hagen Quartet.


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## Ukko

The Festetics also recorded many (all?) of the Haydn quartets; theirs were the first HIP string quartets I heard. I recall being more than a little dismayed; the Collegium Aureum had not prepared me for that sound.


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## Vaneyes

Hilltroll72 said:


> The Festetics also recorded many (all?) of the Haydn quartets; theirs were the first HIP string quartets I heard. I recall being more than a little dismayed; the Collegium Aureum had not prepared me for that sound.


Sometimes I can write off a quartet completely. It's never for being HIP or UNHIP. Usually preferences for interpretation, performance, and sound. I think HIP generally wised up and softened their act after the 80's. Some was voluntary and some was involuntary--strings and technology. But you can still hear the occasional deranged geese call. Mosaiques is often praised for their Haydn and Mozart. I've heard most of it, and only their Haydn Op. 20 is revelation for me. Just thoughts.


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## 1648

haydnfan said:


> Actually I didn't recommend Festetics, that set is the only complete PI set, which is what the OP asked for. My recommendation is for the Alban Berg Quartet, who find the emotional heart of Mozart without the superficial tactics employed by the Hagen Quartet.


 Superficial tactics - like interpretation that ventures beyond serving all the right notes with a healthy helping of fluffy rhythms and juicy legato (more befitting of say, Berg or Debussy)? Their Mozart just doesn't do it for me, even the occasionally unkempt Amadeus brings out the operatic dialectic that pervades his mature output more vividly than the slightly posh Bergs.


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## haydnfan

1648, the Hagens perform Mozart legato as well.:lol:


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## PeterF

I was reading this "old" thread and did not see any of my favorites. 
These are the Mozart String Quartet recordings I would recommend.
Quartetto Italiano - complete
Chilingarian Quartet - last 8 quartets
Guarneri Quartet - box set with last 6 quartets and 6 string quintets
Smetana Quartet - 4 late quartets


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## haydnfan

Yes Quartetto Italiano's set is beautiful. The Guarneri Quartet is awesome (but the sound is not). And I feel embarrassed for how harsh I was in those old posts.


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## Biwa

PeterF said:


> I was reading this "old" thread and did not see any of my favorites.
> These are the Mozart String Quartet recordings I would recommend.
> Quartetto Italiano - complete
> Chilingarian Quartet - last 8 quartets
> Guarneri Quartet - box set with last 6 quartets and 6 string quintets
> Smetana Quartet - 4 late quartets


Those Chilingarian Quartet performances are also favorites of mine, especially the Prussians.


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