# Has Beethoven's Melodies Crossed Over into Mainstream Culture...



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

more than any other composer?


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Hmm. I think the melodies that most people have heard are probably Symphony 5 movement 1, Sym. 6 mov. 1, Sym. 9 Ode to Joy, Fur Elise, and Moonlight Sonata.

But Mozart and Rossini probably have as many of their melodies that are well known (William Tell has 3 on its own!). So I would say it's close, with those three at the top in terms of volume.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Matthew Weflen offers creditable insight on the familiar Beethoven melodies as well as the nomination of Mozart and Rossini as popular melodists for the common culture.

I would add Edvard Grieg to this mix. The "Hall of the Mountain King" and "Morning" music from _Peer Gynt _are quite popular and often appear in films, cartoons, and commercials, as well as in jazz arrangements. So, too, I suggest, the opening tune of the great Piano Concerto is known by nearly everyone, even if they couldn't identify the composer. There are other pieces by Grieg, too, I'm sure, that would qualify here.

Richard Wagner is another that comes to mind immediately, especially for the ubiquitous "Ride of the Valkyrie". And he wrote a wedding march, too, didn't he?

Of course, there is that Russian fellow. Tchaikovsky ....


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

These composers also have famous melodies that made it into pop culture:
Mozart: Symphony no. 40 opening, Eine Klein Nacht Musik, Piano Concerto no. 21 movement 2, Turkish March, etc.
Bach: WTC 1 prelude 1, Cello Suite no. 1 Prelude, Sheep May Safely Graze, Tocatta in D Minor, Air on the G string, etc.
Tchaikovsky: parts of the Nutcracker, Piano Concerto 1 opening, Marche Slav, 1812 Overture
Vivaldi: Four Seasons, Gloria Opening, Goldfinch Concerto opening movement


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> more than any other composer?


Several others are right up there, such as Chopin, Debussy and Johann Strauss.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Hmm. I think the melodies that most people have heard are probably Symphony 5 movement 1, Sym. 6 mov. 1, Sym. 9 Ode to Joy, Fur Elise, and Moonlight Sonata.


I don't think the 6th (I) is that well known. I'd add the violin concerto (III) though - which at least here has been used in a number of commercials.

I think as others have posted, that there are several composers at least at that level of general fame, if not higher. Probably Tchaikovsky or Mozart would win this.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> I don't think the 6th (I) is that well known. I'd add the violin concerto (III) though - which at least here has been used in a number of commercials.
> 
> I think as others have posted, that there are several composers at least at that level of general fame, if not higher. Probably Tchaikovsky or Mozart would win this.


I can see Tchaikovsky (Nutcracker), but what melodies by Mozart are really that well known? Mozart is probably the biggest household name, but I don't think his music is as well known as Beethoven's.

I agree with you about Beethoven's 6th not being huge.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I can see Tchaikovsky (Nutcracker), but what melodies by Mozart are really that well known? Mozart is probably the biggest household name, but I don't think his music is as well known as Beethoven's.
> 
> I agree with you about Beethoven's 6th not being huge.


EKM and the Figaro overture come to mind. Arguably the opening theme of the 40th.

Also as far as themes in the public consciousness, don't forget the opening movement to Bach's Cello Suite 1.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

fbjim said:


> EKM and the Figaro overture come to mind. Arguably the opening theme of the 40th.
> 
> Also as far as themes in the public consciousness, don't forget the opening movement to Bach's Cello Suite 1.


I just don't remember knowing any Mozart melodies before I got really into Classical, but I knew many Beethoven ones.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I just don't remember knowing any Mozart melodies before I got really into Classical, but I knew many Beethoven ones.


There are several famous melodies that have saturated the public consciousness. I'm thinking of a couple of famous themes from piano sonatas, the overture to The Marriage Of Figaro, the intros to symphonies 40 and 41.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Aside from the already mentioned for Mozart in this thread, there is also the adagio from the clarinet concerto (Out of Africa!), and the Piano Concerto no. 20 movement 2.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> ...but what melodies by Mozart are really that well known? Mozart is probably the biggest household name, but I don't think his music is as well known as Beethoven's.
> ...





Art Rock said:


> Aside from the already mentioned for Mozart in this thread, there is also the adagio from the clarinet concerto (Out of Africa!), and the Piano Concerto no. 20 movement 2.


Here's another candidate for Mozart's popularity.






Of course, many folks who hear this music on the commercial don't know who wrote it, what it is, or where it comes from. But I suspect some like it enough to rush out and buy a new Volvo.

I also suspect that music heard on commercials spur music sales from folks who look into who wrote it and what it is, information rather readily available with internet search. I wonder how many people who purchased those Volvo's also bought downloads or discs of _The Magic Flute_ opera. And if they didn't get the Volvo, maybe they just got the opera.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I can't point to any examples off the top of my head (they are probably in cartoons) but the opening melody of Beethoven's 6th is definitely one of those that I recognized from prior experience when I first got into CM. 

Grieg's Morgenstimmung is a nice addition to the list.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I can't point to any examples off the top of my head (they are probably in cartoons) but the opening melody of Beethoven's 6th is definitely one of those that I recognized from prior experience when I first got into CM.
> 
> Grieg's Morgenstimmung is a nice addition to the list.


Isn't it in Fantasia?

Beethoven's 6th, that is.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Isn't it in Fantasia?
> 
> Beethoven's 6th, that is.







Indeed it is, good catch.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

As far as the recognizability of melodies is concerned...:

1. recognizability of any melody is overestimated by fans
2. recognizability falls off very quickly with each further melody by a given composer suggested
3. many might have heard the tune, but they will usually not know the composer
3. Americans are especially prone to thinking that _The Nutcracker _or the theme from _Superman _or their 60-years old cartoons are relevant outside of their territory.

Sure, one can imagine a few numbers by Mozart, maybe some Italian tunes in pizza commercials, the Four Seasons, and of course:

Schubert's Ave Maria, Mendelssohn's Wedding March, Wagner's Wedding March and the Ride of the Valkyries

But above the threshold of 3 "recognizable melodies"?

I might agree with the OP: the 5th Symphony, Für Elise, and Ode to Joy + maybe a few more with varying success are more than just about any other composer could wish for.

But then:
Jaws, Star Wars Main Title, The Imperial March... + older generations might recognize the Raiders March or theme from E.T., middle ones Jurassic Park, the younger ones Harry Potter...

or maybe the composers of ABBA could be the real winners here, unless disqualified for teamwork :lol:


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Fabulin said:


> But above the threshold of 3 "recognizable melodies"?
> 
> I might agree with the OP: the 5th Symphony, Für Elise, and Ode to Joy + maybe a few more with varying success are more than just about any other composer could wish for.
> 
> ...


Yeah, not to open this can of worms, but John Williams figures into any discussion of orchestral melodies seeping into public consciousness.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Yeah, not to open this can of worms, but John Williams figures into any discussion of orchestral melodies seeping into public consciousness.


If we limit discussion to the US of A, Aaron Copland has well-known popular tunes from Fanfare for the Common Man, Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Billy the Kid, El Salon Mexico, and A Lincoln Portrait. George Gershwin and Leonard Bernstein also have well-known tunes, if one is willing to consider them 'classical' composers.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

But Williams is music for extremely popular movies. This is already mainstream not something obscure or old or otherwise non-mainstream seeping into it...


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## periphery (Jul 11, 2020)

If it's about the sensitivity of themes, there's also Nobuo Uematsu <3. Don't think Williams or Tchaikovsky held a candle to his theme-writing, but Beethoven probably does.





























 full


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

fluteman said:


> If we limit discussion to the US of A, Aaron Copland has well-known popular tunes from Fanfare for the Common Man, Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Billy the Kid, El Salon Mexico, and A Lincoln Portrait. George Gershwin and Leonard Bernstein also have well-known tunes, if one is willing to consider them 'classical' composers.


Indeed, Copland's Appalachian Spring was used as the theme music for one of the network's nightly news broadcasts for years. Great catch.


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