# Which Ravel Piano Concerto Do You Prefer?



## mahlernerd (Jan 19, 2020)

Left Hand one for me. I like its one-movement nature, its great beginning and orchestral buildup in anticipation of the grand entrance of the piano, and of course, the fantastic cadenza. Which of the two do you prefer, the Concerto in G Major, or the Left Hand Concerto?

P.S. Sorry if there’s already a thread about this.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

The G major for me.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Same for me, G Major. The second movement just kills me.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Don't make me choose. The Concerto in G has that glorious slow movement, but the Concerto for the Left Hand opens with a contrabassoon solo. Tough call.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Love ‘em both, but I listen to the G major more so I guess that’s what I’ll choose. I do think the finale is a major letdown and that the work is just too short in general - but hey, Ravel was never one for long, drawn-out epics. I absolutely love that opening in the Left Hand concerto as order slowly rises out of primordial chaos.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Knorf said:


> Don't make me choose. The Concerto in G has that glorious slow movement, but the Concerto for the Left Hand opens with a contrabassoon solo. Tough call.


And as a contrabassoonist, the Left Hand concerto for sure! Great solo, and you don't get too many chances to play it.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

G Major for me.....neat piece, and a great, but challenging bassoon part....


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

In terms of artistic conception, execution, craftsmanship I consider the works about equal, however I find the G major touches me more, therefore I listen to it more often, so it is my (slight) preference between the two.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> G Major for me.....neat piece, and a great, but challenging bassoon part....


Check this out: I played bassoon 1 for a concert last fall with the Ravel Concerto in G. I played the combined parts in the 3rd movement, because the 2nd wasn't up for it given the rehearsal time we had. Also on the program: Lili Boulanger, _D'un matin de printemps_. Not the Concerto, but numerous exposed and challenging parts. Also on the program: Debussy's _La Mer_. Great part, right? But get this. The program ended with this: Ravel, _Bolero_. No, I'm not kidding. I almost choked when I saw the program announcement the previous spring. Everything went fine, though.

ETA: forgot to mention, Debussy's _Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune_ was also on this program.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Knorf said:


> Check this out: I played bassoon 1 for a concert last fall with the Ravel Concerto in G. I played the combined parts in the 3rd movement, because the 2nd wasn't up for it given the rehearsal time we had. Also on the program: Lili Boulanger, _D'un matin de printemps_. Not the Concerto, but numerous exposed and challenging parts. Also on the program: Debussy's _La Mer_. Great part, right? But get this. The program ended with this: Ravel, _Bolero_. No, I'm not kidding. I almost choked when I saw the program announcement the previous spring. Everything went fine, though.
> 
> ETA: forgot to mention, Debussy's _Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune_ was also on this program.


Yup, when it rains it pours...I once played Ravel G Major Concerto...program opened with Overture Magic Flute, then Scheherazade!!


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> Yup, when it rains it pours...I once played Ravel G Major Concerto...program opened with Overture Magic Flute, then Scheherazade!!




Nice. Luckily the Mozart is much easier in full performance than in audition!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

If I am forced to choose......I can't.:devil:


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Gmajor for me, but grudgingly.
I have a nice arrangement of the slow mvt for piano solo that combines the piano and orchestra part which is rather nice to play. it is one of mine and my wife's favourites.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Love them both, but the G major just that little bit more.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

tdc said:


> In terms of artistic conception, execution, craftsmanship I consider the works about equal, however I find the G major touches me more, therefore I listen to it more often, so it is my (slight) preference between the two.


Same comments, different outcome for me. I vote the Left Hand concerto.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

G maj. G maj. G maj.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Concerto for the Left Hand. The slow, subterranean mutterings in the beginning that inexorably grow and rise toward the surface, then finally break through into a paean of fierce, almost manic assertion. This is the Ravel of La Valse, the Daybreak Music of Daphnis, the climax of Bolero--a different Ravel than the "Swiss watchmaker" of perhaps some other of his works. Plus I find there is not a false note, a wrong note, anywhere in the concerto.

I also dearly love the G-major concerto. Ravel was, for me, an amazingly successful composer.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I have to give it to the G major for that great slow movement. But both are excellent and it's close.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

If I absolutely had to choose, I think I'd go for the left hand concerto, but I of course love both of them very much.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Left hand - one of the great concertos

Samson Francois was the great exponent


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The G major, mainly because of Martha Argerich. She's quite a salesperson.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I like both, but prefer the G major.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

g major for me..


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

The G major for me as well, I love the first movement !


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Concerto for the Left Hand. The slow, subterranean mutterings in the beginning that inexorably grow and rise toward the surface, then finally break through into a paean of fierce, almost manic assertion. This is the Ravel of La Valse, the Daybreak Music of Daphnis, the climax of Bolero--a different Ravel than the "Swiss watchmaker" of perhaps some other of his works. Plus I find there is not a false note, a wrong note, anywhere in the concerto.
> 
> I also dearly love the G-major concerto. Ravel was, for me, an amazingly successful composer.


Yes, that puts it very well for the Left Hand concerto - a fine work that I enjoy a lot - but the "Swiss watchmaker G Major" always sounds more nuanced and very Mozartian to me.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

It's interesting to note, Ravel's GMajor Concerto was heavily influenced by Gershwin's Pfe Cto...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Knorf said:


> Nice. Luckily the Mozart is much easier in full performance than in audition!


During that concert series, I experienced one of those weird "conductor" situations with the Ravel G Maj.....
This guy, during one rehearsal kept going over and over the middle section of mvt I (the high "E" section)....at least 8 or 9 times...he never addressed any issue, never corrected anything in the orchestra....perhaps the soloist (a local talent) was having a problem?? Or was he just trying to bust my chops??....gawd, over and over again...it was great, I nailed it every time without a hitch, and did the concerts even better....I never did find out....
But then again, I should consider myself lucky....when Stoki/Phila were recording for "Fantasia", Sol Schoenbach had to play the opening "Sacre" solo c.37 times!! before they got the right take!! He said that after that, the solo never scared him when it appeared on the program...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Heck, maybe he really liked that section!


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> During that concert series, I experienced one of those weird "conductor" situations with the Ravel G Maj.....
> This guy, during one rehearsal kept going over and over the middle section of mvt I (the high "E" section)....at least 8 or 9 times...he never addressed any issue, never corrected anything in the orchestra....perhaps the soloist (a local talent) was having a problem?? Or was he just trying to bust my chops??....gawd, over and over again...it was great, I nailed it every time without a hitch, and did the concerts even better....I never did find out....


I hate when conductors do that! Good on you, though!



> But then again, I should consider myself lucky....when Stoki/Phila were recording for "Fantasia", Sol Schoenbach had to play the opening "Sacre" solo c.37 times!! before they got the right take!! He said that after that, the solo never scared him when it appeared on the program...


Haha, nice.

In my aforementioned concert from last fall (Ravel, Debussy, Boulanger,) the exposed bassoon part our conductor chose to work on over and over, was not the solos in the Concerto in G, not the excerpts in _La Mer_, not anything in the Boulanger, no. Not even the big Bolero solo.

He fussed for at least 15 minutes in the dress rehearsal with the bolero rhythm when it appears in the bassoons under the oboe d'amore solo! And we were ready, too. Anticipating the conductors OCD tendencies, we had made sure the notes (G4) didn't crack, that the tongued sixteenth triplets were clean, that we matched pitch, that it was soft enough. _None_ of this was good enough! What made it worse was the oboe d'amore solo being played about eighth-tone flat. We literally had to use a G quarter-tone flat fingering before the conductor was satisfied.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Heck, maybe he really liked that section!


LOL!! that must be it!! :lol: my playing was so beautiful that he just had to keep hearing it!! 

Use of rehearsal time?? forget it, gotta hear that screech basson part!! :lol:


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

While both are masterpieces and "must hears" for anyone even slightly interested in Ravel's music (and I have been a lot more than slightly interested for nearly my entire life), if I had to rank them (and I don't), I'd give the edge to the Concerto for the left hand, because it is so utterly unique and stands so far apart in conception and execution from anything else I know of in the standard piano repertoire.

Edit: I have to add that this concept of deciding which is better by determining which has the better bassoon part has a certain basic appeal.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Concerto for the Left Hand. The slow, subterranean mutterings in the beginning that inexorably grow and rise toward the surface, then finally break through into a paean of fierce, almost manic assertion. This is the Ravel of La Valse, the Daybreak Music of Daphnis, the climax of Bolero--a different Ravel than the "Swiss watchmaker" of perhaps some other of his works. Plus I find there is not a false note, a wrong note, anywhere in the concerto.
> 
> I also dearly love the G-major concerto. Ravel was, for me, an amazingly successful composer.


I have to ditto that. The beginning of that wonderful concerto is especially arresting.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

As much as I love the slow movement of the G major (maybe my favorite thing Ravel ever wrote), I think that I enjoy the Left Hand Concerto more as a whole. I've been itching to play that contrabassoon solo for years, but have never had the opportunity.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Knorf said:


> I played the combined parts in the 3rd movement, because the 2nd wasn't up for it given the rehearsal time we had.


Yes, I always play both parts....tried it once with the parts divvied up as written, but rehearsal was a mess, the 2nd player kept flubbing it, coming in late, etc....best to play both parts, jump in and go, straight thru......:tiphat:


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I hate the pros. I can not do any of those bassoon parts 

I do have the contra part for the _Left Hand_. I can play that.

I like them both. I do not understand why we need to prefer one over the other.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

fluteman said:


> While both are masterpieces and "must hears" for anyone even slightly interested in Ravel's music (and I have been a lot more than slightly interested for nearly my entire life), if I had to rank them (and I don't), I'd give the edge to the Concerto for the left hand, because it is so utterly unique and stands so far apart in conception and execution from anything else I know of in the standard piano repertoire.
> ...


I actually admire them both. One "sentimental" factor the Left Hand concerto has going for it is that it was written for a pianist who had lost his right arm. So yes, it's highly unusual.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Though I likely have listened to the second movement of the Two-handed Concerto more often than I've listened to the Left-handed Concerto complete through, I've listened to the Left-handed Concerto straight through more often than I've listened to the Two-handed concerto from beginning to end. I don't know what that means, but I suspect that if you held a contrabassoon up to my hear and threatened to blow into it if I didn't make a choice, I'd go with the Left-handed Concerto.

I have always wondered what Ravel would have produced had he written a Right-handed Concerto to go with his Left-handed Concerto and his Two-handed Concerto.

In any case, I suppose that if I were a concert pianist, I would much prefer the Two-handed Concerto. It seems the kind of work one could practice while doing other important things, like: eating a sandwich, drinking a beer, writing a letter, painting … or maybe practicing a Right-handed Concerto at the same time!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

consuono said:


> I actually admire them both. One "sentimental" factor the Left Hand concerto has going for it is that it was written for a pianist who had lost his right arm. So yes, it's highly unusual.


The left hand concerto was commissioned by Paul Wittgenstein, a concert pianist who had lost his right arm in the First World War. The relationship between him and the composer was anything but smooth. Although at first Wittgenstein did not take to its jazz-influenced rhythms and harmonies, he grew to like the piece. When Ravel first heard Wittgenstein play the concerto at a private concert in the French embassy in Vienna, he was furious. 'He heard lines taken from the orchestral part and added to the solo, harmonies changed, parts added, bars cut and at the end a newly created series of great swirling arpeggios in the final cadenza. The composer was beside himself with indignation and disbelief.' Later Wittgenstein agreed to perform the concerto as written, and the two men patched up their differences, 'but the whole episode left a bitter taste in both their mouths'.
Wittgenstein also commissioned other left hand works by Prokofiev and Britten among others


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The Wittgenstein Brothers were always troublemakers--constantly arguing with somebody.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

DavidA said:


> The left hand concerto was commissioned by Paul Wittgenstein, a concert pianist who had lost his right arm in the First World War. The relationship between him and the composer was anything but smooth. Although at first Wittgenstein did not take to its jazz-influenced rhythms and harmonies, he grew to like the piece. When Ravel first heard Wittgenstein play the concerto at a private concert in the French embassy in Vienna, he was furious. 'He heard lines taken from the orchestral part and added to the solo, harmonies changed, parts added, bars cut and at the end a newly created series of great swirling arpeggios in the final cadenza. The composer was beside himself with indignation and disbelief.' Later Wittgenstein agreed to perform the concerto as written, and the two men patched up their differences, 'but the whole episode left a bitter taste in both their mouths'.
> Wittgenstein also commissioned other left hand works by Prokofiev and Britten among others


Ravel, like Debussy, apparently did not appreciate performers taking liberties with his scores. The funny thing is, their music, especially their music for piano, often has a free, improvisational feel to it without any actual improvisation by the soloist.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Is someone keeping track of the votes? It would be interesting to see what the result of this poll is.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Left hand for me. Just because it seems more original.
If the G major concerto didn't exist we would have lost a lovely piano concerto.
If the left hand concerto didn't exist we would have lost something more unique.
Love both, though.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

By the way, on the G major, I have recordings by Argerich, Michelangeli and Roge to hand. Anyone got any preferences on this?
I only have the Roge performance of the left hand concerto, although I prefer it. Does that say something about recording preferences?


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Oh, I'm just listening to the slow movement of the G major concerto, and it is one of the loveliest things in 20th century music.
But I still think that the left hand concerto is my favourite concerto, in part because so much of Ravel's piano music is among the loveliest things in 20th century music. Most underrated 20th century composer?


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Here's a recording I absolutely adore of the Ravel Concertos (plus the Debussy _Fantaisie_ which I love, and some Massanet solo piano music which made no impression). Like many recent recordings, it's not mentioned as often as it deserves. It's absolutely competitive with the usual favorites, such as Argerich/Abbado.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Perhaps one of the things I love about Ravel is that all these questions about serialism, tonality, aleatoricism, seem meaningless - if you ever thought they had meaning. It's about beauty.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

A team that got both concertos just right was that of Samson François and André Cluytens, 1959, in a classic EMI recording.,


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> A team that got both concertos just right was that of Samson François and André Cluytens, 1959, in a classic EMI recording.,


Aha. I think my parents had that on LP! Remember those?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> A team that got both concertos just right was that of Samson François and André Cluytens, 1959, in a classic EMI recording.,











Yes classic performances by a wayward artist who got it right on that night! The LH has to be heard to be believed.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Eclectic Al said:


> Aha. I think my parents had that on LP! Remember those?


I had that LP and then was delighted one day to find it cleanly transferred to an excellent CD! Oh Joy, indeed! I had searched in vain for some other artist and recording on CD that might match the mighty Samson, but was always disappointed. Then, ecstasy.:angel:


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> A team that got both concertos just right was that of Samson François and André Cluytens, 1959, in a classic EMI recording.,


I love that one, and have the original Angel LP with the red and black label, from back when Angel LPs were still made in England. The original LP on the British Columbia label (that was soon swallowed up by EMI) is a famous collectible, and one sold on ebay recently for over $2,000. Mine isn't a valuable collectible, but still great music. I have another great LP with both concertos, Alicia de Larrocha on London/Decca.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

fluteman said:


> I love that one, and have the original Angel LP with the red and black label, from back when Angel LPs were still made in England. The original LP on the British Columbia label (that was soon swallowed up by EMI) is a famous collectible, and one sold on ebay recently for over $2,000. Mine isn't a valuable collectible, but still great music. I have another great LP with both concertos, Alicia de Larrocha on London/Decca.


If memory serves, my copy of the EMI had the well-know photo of Ravel in profile, at the piano as I recall, with that patrician nose and so neatly and crisply dressed. I had a teacher in high school that looked just like him.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> If memory serves, my copy of the EMI had the well-know photo of Ravel in profile, at the piano as I recall, with that patrician nose and so neatly and crisply dressed. I had a teacher in high school that looked just like him.


That's the one. It's a great photo. The collectors' items and the worthless copies have nearly identical covers (though different labels), but identical music, and the only significant difference is rarity. Record collectors argue about which pressing is better, but they are basically nuts.


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