# If you could enforce your views…



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Let’s be honest. It’s really irritating to see people posting views that you know very well are WRONG! If you could outlaw certain opinions on classical music in this forum, what would they be? Who knows, the mods may honor your wishes!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

4'33'' is music. There, I'll start with an uncontroversial one. (my view isn't that 4'33'' is music but the statement that it is should be abolished)


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

The word "atonal" makes no sense and everybody should stop using it.

(in reality I don't care)


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I have no wish to enforce my views. I enjoy being exposed to many different opinions about classical music on this site. I have fine-tuned and even rethought some of my own opinions, as a result of posts that I have read on TC.

Even the poorly reasoned posts help me to think more deeply about the topic at hand. Through the process of replying to and critiquing those posts, I have to figure out how best to articulate my own opinion, and why I hold that opinion.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

1812 Overture should be accepted for what it is......Rubbish 
Now that's settled, thank you Ken


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Bettina said:


> I have no wish to enforce my views. I enjoy being exposed to many different opinions about classical music on this site. I have fine-tuned and even rethought some of my own opinions, as a result of posts that I have read on TC.
> 
> Even the poorly reasoned posts help me to think more deeply about the topic at hand. Through the process of replying to and critiquing those posts, I have to figure out how best to articulate my own opinion, and why I hold that opinion.


You're a better person than me :tiphat:


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Haydn man said:


> 1812 Overture should be accepted for what it is......Rubbish
> Now that's settled, thank you Ken


What, you don't like the sound of cannons in your living room?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Placing this topic in
http://www.talkclassical.com/site-feedback-technical-support/


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Placing this topic in
> http://www.talkclassical.com/site-feedback-technical-support/


Really? I thought we were just having fun here.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Really? I thought we were just having fun here.


Even more fun in 
http://www.talkclassical.com/area-51/


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> 4'33'' is music. There, I'll start with an uncontroversial one. (my view isn't that 4'33'' is music but the statement that it is should be abolished)


I'm the opposite. I never get annoyed with people liking certain types of music or considering something music that I don't like. Cause, I figure even if I don't like it, someone is getting enjoyment out of it and that's good. I only get irritated when people don't like music I think deserves to be liked more.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Haydn man said:


> 1812 Overture should be accepted for what it is......Rubbish
> Now that's settled, thank you Ken


Tchaikovsky:
"...very loud and noisy and completely without artistic merit, obviously written without warmth or love..."


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Haydn man said:


> 1812 Overture should be accepted for what it is......Rubbish
> Now that's settled, thank you Ken


WHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I don't have a particular view that I wish to promote. I would, however, wish to see an official acknowledgment that my viewpoints are always correct, that people who disagree with me do not have a legitimate point of view but are in fact evil incarnate, and that I would make a fine U.S. President but that I really ought to be anointed Tsar


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Rather than "outlaw" any poster's opinion, I would rather expand the "ignore" function so that when a poster chooses to ignore another poster's views, everything about that poster becomes "invisible" as on Facebook.

At the current time, thanks to "reply with quote", one can see what a poster has written, even if that poster has been placed on "ignore".

By making the "ignore" function more sophisticated, everyone can express their opinions freely, but one has the choice of being able to filter whether to be exposed to those opinions, without censoring anybody.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I don't particularly mind other people's views, as long as I don't have to listen to the consequences. (On the other hand, if I could enforce my views, there would be no Rock/Pop music of any kind, which would probably put a great many relatively-low-skill people on the unemployment line and be bad for the overall economy.)


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

hpowders said:


> OP: Goes against everything I stand for. I may dislike certain points of view, but I would always defend the right of a poster to express himself/herself freely.
> 
> What I would change is the WAY a poster can express himself/herself.
> 
> ...


I agree with you in principle - "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is a healthier, saner attitude than the no-platforming fad!

Besides, it might enliven things! "That #[email protected] Wagner was really a &*%#, wasn't he? Still, he was right about the Jews, particularly those &%@$ers Meyerbeer and Mendelssohn..."


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

violadude said:


> I'm the opposite. I never get annoyed with people liking certain types of music or considering something music that I don't like. Cause, I figure even if I don't like it, someone is getting enjoyment out of it and that's good. I only get irritated when people don't like music I think deserves to be liked more.


Agreed as long as there's music but ... we're literally talking about no music here.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm not sure if I trust myself to enforce my views this way...

You will give me this power freely! In place of the ToS you will set up a King. And I shall not be restrictive, but open and friendly. All TC members shall love me!...


No, I passed the test, I will abide by the ToS and remain schigolch.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Just for fun:

1. Outlaw the opinion that personal musical preferences are based on objective fact.

2. Outlaw bringing up the importance of a composer or specific works.

3. Outlaw any mention of Beecham's comment about harpsichords.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Any time someone suggests that the reason a person doesn't like certain music is because they're stupid or somehow lacking in the mental faculty required to appreciate said music.

That doesn't happen very often; sometimes people get that impression when the person isn't trying to convey it, but if they are, then a pox on them 



TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> 4'33'' is music. There, I'll start with an uncontroversial one. (my view isn't that 4'33'' is music but the statement that it is should be abolished)


I would just outlaw any mention of 4'33" again


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Just for fun:
> 
> 1. Outlaw the opinion that personal musical preferences are based on objective fact.
> 
> ...


If you did that, this forum would basically "sound" like 4'33"


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

violadude said:


> I'm the opposite. I never get annoyed with people liking certain types of music or considering something music that I don't like. Cause, I figure even if I don't like it, someone is getting enjoyment out of it and that's good. I only get irritated when people don't like music I think deserves to be liked more.


I tend to hate it when people love music that I only like the tiniest bit. Since I "understand" it, it makes me feel like the piece is overrated. As opposed to when I don't get the piece at all, and I'm not annoyed since I'm just indifferent to the piece.

As for my views which I would want enforced, I'm not even going to say them because I'd get trashed for doing so. One in particular about a very famous rock band being overrated...

EDIT: To clarify, when I say I "understand" a piece, I mean I understand why I like or don't like it.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

How many people say they understand a certain piece of music when in all probability they haven't a clue and just want to sound superior.


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

If I where to enforce my opinions, I'd be hitler


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

Dan Ante said:


> How many people say they understand a certain piece of music when in all probability they haven't a clue and just want to sound superior.


By "understand" I meant that I understand why I like (or don't like) the piece, I didn't mean that I understood the piece's essence or anything like that. That's why I put it in quotes.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

EarthBoundRules said:


> By "understand" I meant that I understand why I like (or don't like) the piece, I didn't mean that I understood the piece's essence or anything like that. That's why I put it in quotes.


Sorry I was not getting at you,


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

hpowders said:


> . . . At the current time, thanks to "reply with quote", one can see what a poster has written, even if that poster has been placed on "ignore".
> 
> By making the "ignore" function more sophisticated, everyone can express their opinions freely, but one has the choice of being able to filter whether to be exposed to those opinions, without censoring anybody.


A great idea, but it cannot be implemented within the vBulletin software as far as I know. I, personally, despise the "quote" feature especially on really l-o-n-g posts ... and then when others reply again quoting over and over again ... would rather see "@ username" in the reply instead of the whole quote. But that's a personal thing with me.

Opinions are just that ... what someone believe to be true (to them) ... The scary part of the internet is where anyone can claim anything about themselves to be true and factual, and the information to prove or disprove those facts is not available.

We had one member long ago who made such claims without any substantial proof ... he would never reveal his sources for that information, and then reply to a question by asking the other person a different question, sidestepping the original question asked of him every time. He felt that he was right ... and damn anybody else for thinking otherwise ... he told me in no uncertain terms that he was "the authority" on the subject matter. On the internet anyone can make such claims because there is no way to dispute what he was taught to believe was correct.

All we ask is that responses remain civil to each other. We are all lovers of classical music ... we are entitled to believe or not believe what we want, and no amount of arguing among ourselves is going to change that outcome.


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## bioluminescentsquid (Jul 22, 2016)

JAS said:


> If you did that, this forum would basically "sound" like 4'33"


No, it would sound like skeletons copulating on a... nevermind.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

bioluminescentsquid said:


> No, it would sound like skeletons copulating on a... nevermind.


That reminds me that I probably wouldn't mind the sound of harpsichord as long as it's playing 4'33''.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

If I could enforce my views I wouldn't waste my powers on Rachmaninoff haters on music forums.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Krummhorn said:


> Opinions are just that ... what someone believe to be true (to them) ... The scary part of the internet is where anyone can claim anything about themselves to be true and factual, and the information to prove or disprove those facts is not available.


I have always said that the best feature of reality is that we cannot read each other's minds. If ESP really existed, in any widespread form, humanity would not last one generation.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> That reminds me that I probably wouldn't mind the sound of harpsichord as long as it's playing 4'33''.


Do you think you could even make it through 4'33"? I mean, it's a harpsichord! Hide the kids! :lol:


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Do you think you could even make it through 4'33"? I mean, it's a harpsichord! Hide the kids! :lol:


All 3 movements would be a challenge, I admit


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> All 3 movements would be a challenge, I admit


I sat through 4'33" once and to my delight, it seemed like it was over in around 5 minutes.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I sat through 4'33" once and to my delight, it seemed like it was over in around 5 minutes.


Must have been Celibidache conducting.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Must have been Celibidache conducting.


No. It was Otto Klemperer.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Let's be honest. It's really irritating to see people posting views that you know very well are WRONG! If you could outlaw certain opinions on classical music in this forum, what would they be? Who knows, the mods may honor your wishes!


I think a clash of opinions and strong views lead to healthy and lively discussion. However, if I could outlaw anything it would be posts heaping praise and adulation on certain (mainly modern) composers and compositions which are quite frankly rubbish but masquerade under the guise of art. Anyway, that is a view many people will think wrong so we are all as guilty as one another.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

JAS said:


> if I could enforce my views, there would be no Rock/Pop music of any kind, which would probably put a great many relatively-low-skill people on the unemployment line and be bad for the overall economy.)


I hope you realize that TC will get flooded by those same people that are forced to listen to classical music and want to share their views with us. (it would be "Rachmaninoff vs Shostakovich thread" x 1000)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

*Nobody* should be allowed to say that *Vivaldi* *'only wrote one piece of music four hundred times' *or to mention the word *'sewing machine'* when explaining why they don't cotton to Baroque Music...

(Just kidding - I actually prefer it when people are honest about their likes and dislikes.)


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Razumovskymas said:


> I hope you realize that TC will get flooded by those same people that are forced to listen to classical music and want to share their views with us. (it would be "Rachmaninoff vs Shostakovich thread" x 1000)


Well, that is probably another good reason for not granting me the absolute power to enforce my will.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I would establish a separate county in each state for people who eat garlic bagels for breakfast.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I would make it a rule that 5 infraction points are automatically assessed for creating a thread which confuses the difference between personal opinion and objective fact such as, but not limited to, threads about 'undisputed greatest' 'proven masterpiece' etc. etc. ad nauseum.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Becca said:


> I would make it a rule that 5 infraction points are automatically assessed for creating a thread which confuses the difference between personal opinion and objective fact such as, but not limited to, threads about 'undisputed greatest' 'proven masterpiece' etc. etc. ad nauseum.


You missed out "common sense"


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

I wouldn't outlaw anything. If we disagree or know it's wrong (that attitude actually scares me), just ignore it or give the opposing opinion. The point of TC is to freely post without feeling intimidation or peer pressure.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> I wouldn't outlaw anything. If we disagree or know it's wrong (that attitude actually scares me), just ignore it or give the opposing opinion. The point of TC is to freely post without feeling intimidation or peer pressure.


Very wise words, may I add: being rude and not polite towards others.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would never attempt to enforce my views or likes on anyone else.

I'm a Libertarian. I used to be an Episcopalian.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

If I could enforce my views, I wouldn't.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Dr Johnson said:


> If I could enforce my views, I wouldn't.


Bravo for that, Dr. Johnson!!!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Dr Johnson said:


> If I could enforce my views, I wouldn't.


Now that's a view I'm willing to enforce.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> I wouldn't outlaw anything. If we disagree or know it's wrong (that attitude actually scares me), just ignore it or give the opposing opinion. The point of TC is to freely post without feeling intimidation or peer pressure.


I'm with you!!!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I'd bring WBACH back. 

http://www.pressherald.com/2017/02/20/portland-based-radio-station-wbach-is-off-the-air-again/


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

bioluminescentsquid said:


> No, it would sound like skeletons copulating on a... nevermind.


Bach would be very, very angry with you. He would curse you in E Flat minor!!!


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I worry more about the people who agree with me. For example, I sometimes worry when disks I don't have but want to buy get praised by too many people on the forum--it seems to drive prices up.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Dr Johnson said:


> If I could enforce my views, I wouldn't.


Nor would I, much better to get a real big professional enforcer an his patched mates.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

No one would like it, even me if I did.................


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I would disable present enforcers like Putin, Trump, Erdogan, Mugabe, Orbán....


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