# The Rap + Hip-Hop Experiment for May-June 2015



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Starting next month I will be forsaking 80% classical music listening for reversing for 80% non-classical listening. May and June I will devote two months to the study of rap and hip-hop (considering its generally maligned/disdained status here on TC) with May focusing on the old classics and June focusing on the newly released classics which allow me to catch up until here. I will leave Fridays for my classical music listening.

Thus all of my listening will be derived from iTunes albums.

I will be using albums listed on Sandbox Automatic at http://www.sandboxautomatic.com to help me find albums which will exist as recent recordings.

For older classics I have a pretty sizable collection of old hip hop albums to examine but also I will be using this wonderful scholarly tome as well:










It will be fascinating to do a comparison between hip hop and classical music genres. Compare and contrast time.

More notes to arrive here as soon as I get further bearings.

Also I will be doing some listening notes here.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

10 Parallels Between Classical Music and Hip-Hop

1) The comparison between counterpoint and layered samples/melody lines...
2) The comparison between the poetic bard tradition in rap (thinking of Homer as the first rapper?) and the Lieder tradition
3) A respect for historical precedent... e.g. Mozart-Haydn relationship similar to Dead Prez-Chuck D/Public Enemy relation... note consistent references to older rappers through acknowledgment...
4) Existence of sexism and violence in Puccini operas parallel to the cartoonish/realistic violence/sex in gangster rap
5) Percussive elements in both classical music such as Stravinsky and hip hop drum beats
6) Conductor/orchestra as rap producer/instrumentalists; soloist as rapper...
7) The use of double identities... for example, e.g. Ghostface Killah, Tony Starks... opera identities through characters... identity confusion in Mozart operas
8) Further examination of classical music sampling in rap tracks
9) Radical experiments in hip hop production (Anti-Pop Consortium and El-P) comparable to electroacoustic music.
10) Hip hop dancing similar to ballets as a subset of operas?


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Further thoughts...

Listening to Liszt all month (with Wolfgang Rihm in tow) has made me realize that showmanship is shared between hip hop culture and classical music. The act of rivalry whether it be against self or another entity is quite prominent between both genres.

For example, compare this:






to this:






Basically, the motif of "scoring chicks" exists both in hip hop and opera.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

The idea of conducting exists strongly in hip hop. For example, this:






Madlib leading a one-person orchestra is very impressive.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Hip hop does borrow some terminology from the classical music world. For example, the symphonic form is evident in Marley Marl's "The Symphony."






I hope to start looking into these stylings starting next month.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Albert7 said:


> 10 Parallels Between Classical Music and Hip-Hop
> 
> 1) The comparison between counterpoint and layered samples/melody lines...


I wouldn't go too far with the similarities between the two genres, but I agree with this. I love when rap has layers, all the samples underneath that seem barely related to the stuff on the top. Tom Waits does a lot of this as well (e.g., Hell Broke Luce, the albums Alice and Blood Money). It reminds me vaguely of Charles Ives. It's a kind of "almost noise" feel.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> I wouldn't go too far with the similarities between the two genres, but I agree with this. I love when rap has layers, all the samples underneath that seem barely related to the stuff on the top. Tom Waits does a lot of this as well (e.g., Hell Broke Luce, the albums Alice and Blood Money). It reminds me vaguely of Charles Ives. It's a kind of "almost noise" feel.


Indeed, I agree with you there. In fact, the "golden era" of hip hop featured multi-layered pieces where samples were composed precisely, one on top of another like complex symphonic masterpieces.  For example, the production of Public Enemy with Hank Shocklee and The Bomb Squad is the epitome of sampling layers before Americans went all-lawsuit happy over sampling.

Here is a fine example of this:






In a less political vein, we have the sonic collages of Double D and Steinski which is a forerunner for Public Enemy's brilliant experiments.






The one thing is like classical music, great rap or hip hop respects its historical roots while breaking it at the same time. (Think of Barthes' "death of the author" syndrome.)


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

This movement is an example of layered "sampling" in classical music.






Oh and by the way, please don't get the terms rap and hip-hop mixed up together. Rap is a small subset of hip hop which indicates a full culture. This song explains the difference.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Classical music meets hip-hop stardom. Sir Mix-A-Lot has performed with the Seattle Symphony.










http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/five-rap-and-classical-music-combos/






Primo again delivers an experimental banger out of left field here.

Also classical music sampling is quite prevalent too.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Today I just found out that N.W.A.'s story is getting the cinematic treatment this fall. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Posse cuts are rather similar to orchestral efforts. Here is a rather fabulous example of lyrical coordination at its finest.


----------



## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Make sure you listen to plenty of Nas and Lupe.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Slowly planning out what to do here. I plan to post up album cover, my favorite lyrical rhyme, my favorite production, my favorite song(s), thematic highlights.

May 2015 will be devoted to hip-hop albums released before 2010.

June 2015 will be devoted to hip-hop albums released after 2010 with a particular focus on 2014-2015. Sandboxautomatic listings will be used as the guideline for it all.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Ornamentation in hip-hop...

What is the equivalent of that trill in classical music brought over to hip-hop? For me, that would be the turntable scratch which is a fundamental part of the building blocks of hip hop creation.






This is a good documentary on the history of hip-hop's ornament.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Looks like my goal will be to analyze a minimum of one album per day so that will be around 61 albums total for the two months total. I will be posting my review, ideas, and analysis of lyrics and samples/productions for each album in question.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

And now for some clever examples of hip-hop sampling classical music as the basis for the loops.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Today I have been planning out where to start on my experiment when next month rolls around next week. I plan to start with the rap and hip-hop albums that I already have on my iPod classic then move on to others that I have on my list to find off iTunes.

Examples include Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth and Gang Starr.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is another hip-hop track that is a landmark. Just like in classical music, hip-hop acknowledges its own heritage and utilizes quotations all the way home.






Respect.


----------



## Aleksandar (Feb 21, 2015)

Some sampled Bach and Beethoven


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

This is a landmark track explaining the connection between jazz music and hip-hop. Both work together very well.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is a wonderful quote from The Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2007/jul/26/hiphop

"Hip-hop is music - it's as capable of expressing emotion and providing inspiration as any other form. Not every rap producer is a genius, and plenty of classical musicians wrote what their audiences would like because they were in it for money. In the process, both may provide listeners with moments of transcendence. Let's savour those and celebrate them rather than pushing the debate towards deciding which mode of cultural expression has the greater gravitas."

That is probably one of the best statements I've heard in a long time. Amen.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I have decided to add full length albums off YouTube to my listening queue if I can't purchase the album from iTunes or Amazon mp3. That way I can incorporate albums which are rare and hard to find. I will post the link here of course so people can experience in question as well.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> I have decided to add full length albums off YouTube to my listening queue if I can't purchase the album from iTunes or Amazon mp3. That way I can incorporate albums which are rare and hard to find. I will post the link here of course so people can experience in question as well.


Also I decided to add the caveat that since my iTunes budget is rather limited it would be all right to listen to the YouTube album version and use that as a placeholder until I get the download.

It looks like rap and hip-hop is making a comeback on vinyl. Here is a good jump-off for where to start hunting down for those.

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/category.jsp?id=A-VINYL-HIPHOPRAP#/

Also I will be adding vinyl rap albums as well to my listening list.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is another fine example of KRS-One rapping over Vivaldi. A1 sauce for those in the know.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

This is my last day of classical music listening so I will provide a few reflections before tomorrow begins this journey.

Question: who is the first rap artist? Ironically unlike what most people would expect, the first rap poet was Homer from way back in the day. Indeed, he was the first guy who composed epic tales to a lyre breakbeat (or the equivalent) and continue the bardic traditions.

Indeed, a lot of people potentially dismiss rap as a bunch of black dudes just talking but it's a lot more than that. It is a celebration of oral tradition being passed from generation to generation. For example, here is an example of an Irish rapper/modern bard.






The only difference is that the old dude in the example can deliver a rap lyric lasting about 14,000 lines long whereas that would mean like a 20 disc rap album. His freestyling exemplifies a celebration of tradition, heritage, politics, drama, etc. that current rap poets deliver. Too bad I wasn't able to locate an example of Homer/bard reading over some music which would delineate my point above.

Maybe this?






It's like Turkish rap? Perhaps a stretch. Compared to this, this would be the same.






Okay, I have a format where I will analyze 1-3 rap albums per day and I will provide a suggested classical piece to listen to that follows in the train of the album so that those who are intent on following this will make the connection between classical music and hip hop.

For the Baltimore incidents, I leave on a positive note until tomorrow.






For continued stereotyping of hip hop music, one only needs to hear the introduction of this piece:






Having lived in that area, it's rather sad how much rap and hip-hop music is still maligned.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

An Example of How to Deconstruct a Hip-Hop Song, A Musical Analysis. (Or How I Learned Everything from the Beastie Boys).

To demonstrate to the folks on TC on how I plan to break down hip-hop albums here over the next few months using quasi-scientific methodologies, I will demonstrate by using a song that isn't going to be officially on my listening list.

I will use Big Pun featuring Joe's song "Still Not a Player."






Title: Still Not a Player

Performer(s): Big Pun featuring Joe

Classical Music Piece Associated with this Work: Robert Schumann's Dichterliebe

Breakdown: Typically I am definitely not a huge fan of R and B hooks but when I first heard this piece many years ago, I realized the very catchy melody used for this piece. The question is where is that lovely piano from? Fascinatingly enough, using the WhoSampled database, I found out that the sample is from Brenda Russell's song "A Little Bit of Love" from the introduction section.






Just sheer brilliance and a perfect complement to Big Pun's breezy approach in his vocal delivery here.

However, the largest surprise remains the fact that the R and B hook was either interpolated (in this case Joe singing from a previous album) or sampled. I am not sure which option. Here is the original R and B hook in its unadulterated form.






One can see that Joe's hook in this song is lifted again for the vocal hook into Big Pun's final version. However, the vocal sample is sped up approximately 30%-40% from the original source (a la Kanye West style).

In the later part of Big Pun's song, one can here the vocal sample from Earth, Wind, and Fire's song Beijo Rhythm.






The "da-di-ba" vocal sample is just exquisite, reinforcing the lighthearted approach for Joe's main hook and recapitulating the heavenly touch that Big Pun delivers in his rather atypical, not-so-heavy self-analysis comprising the song.

There is a vocal interpolation from a Luke's rap song "I Wanna Rock" as well.






However, it is rather subtle and I suspect that it was within Joe's lyrics? My guess is that Joe sung Luke's original lyrics and that was that.

Favorite lyrics:

Big Pun - I lay your head on my chest, and feel my heartbeat
We can park the Jeep, pump Mobb Deep and just spark the leaf
It's hard to creep since I found Joe
Every pretty, round, brown ho wanna go down low
But this Boogie Down professional I'mma let you know
Once I put the blows, get your clothes, cause you got to go

Very endearing lyrics from a gangster rapper... definitely it's no doubt that ladies love him because of his toughness and tenderness at the same time.

Conclusion: A lovely paean to a rapper's lady... very easy sampling so nothing groundbreaking but still a catchy tune to woo with. Definitely a winner. A1 sauce.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

This thread is closed.


----------

