# Beethoven - Die Weihe des Hauses, incidental music (Hess 118)



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

If I've understood correctly, the content of this suite has replaced some movements of the suite of the incidental music for the play "Ruins of Athens" because the lyrics were changed and Beethoven thought that the old music didn't work with the new lyrics. The overture has also been replaced with the one you find here. How do you rate the work?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

This is a work from Beethoven’s late period (1822). The first few minutes comprise one of his wonderful themes and is one of the great regal marches. If I was a Chief, it would be used as my ‘Hail to the Chief‘. They say it was written after a period when Beethoven was particularly interested in Handel. He must have been familiar with this other great regal march work and perhaps influenced by it:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Excellent for the Ouverture (one of my 3 favorite Beethoven ouvertures, with Leonore III and Coriolan), good (but a bit perfunctory festive music) for the rest, so I took the average. I am not entirely sure I ever heard the rest before but I should have as it is on the Skrowaczewski/Minnesota VoxBox. The last recitative/melodram is a bit silly in isolation.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted Not so good and not so bad, one of those pieces when one thinks twice a year......let spin it.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

The overture is great, and important because it's a rare example of Beethoven's late contrapuntal style in orchestral form. The rest of the incidental music, composer earlier, during Beethoven's "artistic crisis" years is more or less standard fare.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

DaveM said:


> This is a work from Beethoven’s late period (1822). The first few minutes comprise one of his wonderful themes and is one of the great regal marches. If I was a Chief, it would be used as my ‘Hail to the Chief‘. They say it was written after a period when Beethoven was particularly interested in Handel. He must have been familiar with this other great regal march work and perhaps influenced by it:





Kreisler jr said:


> Excellent for the Ouverture (one of my 3 favorite Beethoven ouvertures, with Leonore III and Coriolan), good (but a bit perfunctory festive music) for the rest, so I took the average. I am not entirely sure I ever heard the rest before but I should have as it is on the Skrowaczewski/Minnesota VoxBox. The last recitative/melodram is a bit silly in isolation.





RobertJTh said:


> The overture is great, and important because it's a rare example of Beethoven's late contrapuntal style in orchestral form. The rest of the incidental music, composer earlier, during Beethoven's "artistic crisis" years is more or less standard fare.


I agree about the overture, but I think that you are all forgetting to mention "Schmükt die Altare", which for me is one of the most memorable movements of Beethoven.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

HansZimmer said:


> I agree about the overture, but I think that you are all forgetting to mention "Schmükt die Altare", which for me is one of the most memorable movements of Beethoven.


It's very well orchestrated and has imaginative writing for woodwinds and brass, but I wouldn't call it top Beethoven. It's repetitive (though the varying textures make that the march theme doesn't overstay its welcome) and doesn't display the rich thematic development that we associate with Beethoven's best works. Still nice to hear it again, it's not something you listen to every day.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I was also impressed by the elaborate wind/brass. I also generally think that "lower range" Beethoven tends to be a bit underappreciated, including his craftsmanship in such minor (and also many quite early) works. But there is only so much one can do with a chorus for a cheesy stageplay...


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

RobertJTh said:


> It's very well orchestrated and has imaginative writing for woodwinds and brass, but I wouldn't call it top Beethoven. It's repetitive (though the varying textures make that the march theme doesn't overstay its welcome) and doesn't display the rich thematic development that we associate with Beethoven's best works. Still nice to hear it again, it's not something you listen to every day.


The melody might be repetitive, but there is a good dramatic arc, so it doesn't sound repetitive. As I've already written in other discussions, you can avoid repetition with a nice orchestration (the same melody sounds different if orchestrated in different ways). In few words, if a theme is singed by a tenor, played by a piano and played by an orchestra, it's a bit like if you have produced three different versions of the same theme, because the melody is not the exclusive component of sound/music.

So, if there is a good writing for wind/brass, as you put it, we should recognize that it's a good piece. There is a good quality, and our ears perceive it.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

HansZimmer said:


> The melody might be repetitive, but there is a good dramatic arc, so it doesn't sound repetitive. As I've already written in other discussions, you can avoid repetition with a nice orchestration (the same melody sounds different if orchestrated in different ways). In few words, if a theme is singed by a tenor, played by a piano and played by an orchestra, it's a bit like if you have produced three different versions of the same theme, because the melody is not the exclusive component of sound/music.


That's what I meant by "varying textures".


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

RobertJTh said:


> That's what I meant by "varying textures".


Ok, fine. Many people here say that the melody is not the only artistic aspect of music, but I use the word "melody" in a very generic way. The melody in my personal, simplified dictionary is the sum of all the sounds (melody 1 + melody 2 + melody n in poliphony, melody + accompainment in homophony) and their respective features (notes and timbres).

What I hear in this piece is not necessarily the best melody in the strict sense of the word, but a good sound. If you hear a good sound in a piece, it probably means that the composer has done a great job in some aspects of music. To work hard on the melody in the strict sense of the word is not the only way to produce a good piece. A hard work on the textures also has artistic merits if there are the expected results, don't you think?

This is why I don't like analytical arguments in music: they tend to be monodimensional. My approach to music is different: if it sounds nice, it's nice, and there is probably a clever technique in one of the many aspects of music.


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