# Opening Prima of Tristan & Isolde at the Met tonight



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Streaming on the Met website. Nina Stemme as Isolde.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

October 8 th, the whole shebang in Cinema


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Heard a bit of it on Sirius coming home from work - lots of BIG wobbles. I was planning on going to NYC to see it but now I think I'll just do the Met in HD thing next weekend


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Heard parts of the first act. Didnt like the conducting too much. You don't create tension by running away at the peaks. Stemme was worth hearing, of course. Not sure about Tristan.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

NYT review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/a...-the-musical-values-take-the-honors.html?_r=0


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I got my ticket for the October 8th Met in HD performance today, but all of the above posts seem quite disappointed...

Can anyone tell me what the deal is with this picture:









They do not have Isolde shoot Tristan during the Liebestod, do they?


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I suspect that's during the final scene of act one, when Tristan finally comes down to see Isolde. He offers Isolde his sword to give her a chance to avenge Morold's death.

I really liked what I heard from the opening night broadcast, especially Nina Stemme and Ekaterina Gubanova.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Can anyone tell me what the deal is with this picture:
> 
> View attachment 89113
> 
> ...


I've read Isolde uses a knife for herself at the end...  But this is probably the first act. There are moments when Isolde putting a gun to Tristan's head is not an entirely absurd idea


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I got my ticket for the October 8th Met in HD performance today, but all of the above posts seem quite disappointed...


Visually this 20th-century-military/war/dictatorship/industrial theme seems like something we have had before many, many times.

But perhaps there is a story behind the usual guns, trench coats, iron walls and gas cylinders. And there are also Gubanova and Pape, no real weak link in the cast, so it might as well turn out to be great.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I think Wagner would have had heart failure (what he actually did die of ) if he could come back and see Isolde slashing her wrists at the end of the Liebestod . But otherwise, from what I've heard about it, the production doesn't sound anywhere as egregious as the worst excesses of European Regie theater .
I'm a big fan of Rattle and really want to hear how he does Tristan .


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

interestedin said:


> But perhaps there is a story behind the usual guns, trench coats, iron walls and gas cylinders. And there are also Gubanova and Pape, no real weak link in the cast, so it might as well turn out to be great.


From wat I've read about this production, Act I is happening on a military ship which brings Isolde to Tristan's kingdom, and Tristan is supposed to be the navigating officer or something, that is why he is wearing a uniform. So it's quite plausible, they just "updated" it to modernity.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

I like that - two short Trailers:










If only the MET could drop its tradition of artificially laying the voice over the orchestra. It sounds unnatural...


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## Bill H. (Dec 23, 2010)

I attended the Tristan performance last Friday evening, and I was enchanted by the singing and the orchestral sound that Rattle brought out. Of course the staging can be an acquired taste but at least it still retained the nautical setting. However, I did wonder whether the Act I staging in recessed ships' compartments muffled the voices just a bit, because it seemed to me that in the subsequent Acts they sounded more open and less covered by the orchestra.

This was my very first visit to the Met, BTW.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

saw it last night. Thankfully, in occupying the second to last row of the family circle, I couldn't see isolde slashing her wrists at the end. Wagner would have walked on the stage and told everyone to stop if he saw that. The whole point is that she's transfigured and dies because he died. It's a spiritual thing, not a dumb suicide.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

interestedin said:


> I like that - two short Trailers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the first trailer Miss Stemme seems to have acquired an alarming yodel. She was in much better voice for Elektra and definitely much better voice when she sang Isolde with Domingo years ago. Not attractive to listen to at all.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

jailhouse said:


> saw it last night. Thankfully, in occupying the second to last row of the family circle, I couldn't see isolde slashing her wrists at the end. Wagner would have walked on the stage and told everyone to stop if he saw that. The whole point is that she's transfigured and dies because he died. It's a spiritual thing, not a dumb suicide.


Wasn't it almost over anyway? Can you really imagine Wagner walking out to stop everything right at the Liebstod?

And I'm not really defending it because I haven't seen it, though I will see the HD broadcast on Saturday. So maybe it doesn't make sense. But I'm not understanding the problem, from your description.

But Isolde does actively choose to die. Is expressing that by having her slash her wrists that egregious? You're right, it's more than that, and a very mystical or spiritual thing.

Tristan commits suicide by cop (or the king's knights, as it were). He realizes that he cannot have what he wants in this life, and that he must die. So he challenges Marke's men and allows himself to be stabbed. And then spends the entire third act longing for death - though it is worded such that those around him think he is hoping to be saved from death by Isolde, not longing to join her in death. Kurwenal doesn't understand, and neither does Marke or Brangäne. That's why Tristan's men and Marke's men kill each other; though he thinks he is bringing a solution to everything, he is just bringing more death. He has no solution to the real problems of life.

If Isolde had arrived earlier she might have gotten her wish of a last hour next to him in peace - though it is unlikely and also possible that at that point she's deceiving herself and not ready to die - but even if she had healed Tristan's wound it would not have fixed anything.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

eh you're right obviously i was exaggerating. 

Oh it was also silly that Tristan gets shot, not stabbed in this version..complete with a really loud and dumb gunshot sound


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> In the first trailer Miss Stemme seems to have acquired an alarming yodel. She was in much better voice for Elektra and definitely much better voice when she sang Isolde with Domingo years ago. Not attractive to listen to at all.


Indeed, she does not sound as fresh as in the recording 10 years ago. And the large vibrato is irritating at first, but when I heard her Isolde live recently (in June, after her Elektra), I got used to it quickly. Have you heard better Isoldes recently?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

You guys are making me soo excited!


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> soo excited!


:lol: It's a hysterical, no I mean historical event. It's the first time a MET season has opened with Tristan since 1937.


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## Resurrexit (Apr 1, 2014)

interestedin said:


> NYT review:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/a...-the-musical-values-take-the-honors.html?_r=0


Guardian review, reinforces the Times review that this production is a bit dubiousL

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/27/tristan-und-isolde-met-opera-review

Not having seen it, I must say I find myself agreeing with the critic on one point in particular:



> None of Treliński's iconography was in a hurry to make itself coherent, in relation to the story of Tristan und Isolde. In fact, the director primed the audience to misread some of his preferred visual cues, for hours. (Elements from that opening montage also introduced the subsequent two acts, just to make extra certain that every viewer would remember to ponder them.) When the brilliant bass René Pape entered as King Marke, his crisp white military outfit seemed to recall the suicidal figure in Treliński's opening video sequence. But that also made no literal dramatic sense, since in the libretto it's clear that he has no children. (Also: King Marke wouldn't live in a wooden shack.) Unless the child he's gripping close is the fate of his nation? And the burning house a symbol of … something?
> 
> If this all seems far removed from the world of thought and emotion typically inspired by a good performance of Tristan und Isolde - well, yes. Finally, in the third act, when Tristan is laid up from a mortal wound and raving in the absence of Isolde, Treliński allows us the interpretive key to his imagery. As Tristan recalls learning of his father's premature death, the director has a physical replica of the video-depicted, burned-up house wheeled on to the stage. Tristan gambols through the ashes of memory, uncovering his father's sullied uniform. So it was Tristan who was the child in all those videos. In Treliński's version, he watches his father commit suicide, rather than learning of the death via a mournful melody that Wagner's score and libretto present in more poetic detail.
> 
> That the director prefers to make his own pictures take precedence over the sounds and words of the opera is, in itself, notable. More important - and more quizzical - is the fact that director has elected to make an opera-wide fetish out of such a minor point in the work. The great length we have to travel for a reveal of such jaw-dropping inconsequence is just one mark of how turgid and unrewarding this staging can feel.


A bit humorous really.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

I loved it regardless..the orchestra sounds incredible and the singing is perfectly fine. Haven't seen tristan before so i couldnt hate on it.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I just can't wait, the suspense is killing me.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Pugg said:


> I just can't wait, the suspense is killing me.


Just one more day


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Pugg said:


> I just can't wait, the suspense is killing me.


That's the whole point, eh? If you want to make it truly tristanesque, leave the Cinema and go home the moment the prelude Begins


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

interestedin said:


> That's the whole point, eh? If you want to make it truly tristanesque, leave the Cinema and go home the moment the prelude Begins


It has to be very bad staging and singing before I leave.
Few hours and counting.:angel:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I've booked in for the broadcast of this but am not encouraged by the reviews.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I've booked in for the broadcast of this but am not encouraged by the reviews.


Just checked the seat planning, only half seats are sold.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Did you notice the look on poor Nina's face when Voigt asked her a highly theoretical question she was clearly unable to answer spontaneously? Priceless!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just returned: Good singing, fine orchestral playing, dreadful production!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Just returned as well. I will write a detailed review tomorrow, because right now it is long after midnight, and I am pretty much emotionally spent. There will be some criticism for sure. But for now I just feel all warm and happy inside, and wishing to share my joy with all the world. Tristan und Isolde is a masterpiece, and it is a great pleasure to see it live.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

jailhouse said:


> eh you're right obviously i was exaggerating.
> 
> Oh it was also silly that Tristan gets shot, not stabbed in this version..complete with a really loud and dumb gunshot sound


I'm sorry for responding in the way I did. I despised this staging so, so much.

You're right, it's incredibly wrongheaded.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Tristan in the first act was pathetic. He creepily stood over a sleeping Isolde during the prelude, but slunk out of the room before she stirred. This was not a man of honor, he drank instant coffee. They also show him executing the bound and blindfolded Morold, with a bunch of admirals/generals/whatever watching. This was not personal combat on the field of battle; it was a war crime. Tristan's soldiers/sailors (on this warship) also are rapey/creepy towards Brangäne and Isolde, which was very uncomfortable.

The interactions between Isolde and Brangäne were very compelling. During their scenes together I could get swept away. Both Nina Stemme and Ekatarina Gubanova acted and sounded wonderful.

When finally he relents, Tristan does not come to Isolde's cabin to meet her; he makes her go to his office below decks. They barely interact at all; they don't seem tense, just bored. At just the right moment Brangäne slips in with the mixed potion and she leaves just as quickly. Tristan snaps into something stronger quite quickly, though this scene as a whole rings false. When Brangäne and Kurvenal come in to try and prepare them for Marke's arrival, the lovers are nowhere near each other.

The stage for the first act looks like it could be a Katie Mitchell set (think _Written on Skin_ or _Alcina_) though you can only see the room where whoever currently singing is (except in a few instances, such as Tristan creepily watching surveillance footage of Isolde's room). This really makes it difficult to get any sense of space. Which isn't entirely out of place, if it were done carefully, purposefully. It wasn't. (I had a similar complaint about Treliński's _Bluebeard's Castle_ for the Met, which I also only saw via the Live in HD. Again, disorientation seems appropriate, but not when it comes off as so close to incompetence).

Oh, during the prelude we see an officer in white, embraced by a grieving child. The child is Tristan, the officer is his father (neither Wagner nor Treliński name him, I'm going with Riwalin as that is what von Straussburg used). The officer burns their home down and also shoots himself. The dead officer appears at various times in video on the scrim and/or as a super.

Act 2 is still on the warship, starting in the control room. Tristan shows up and eventually they go below decks to a room full of improperly labeled hazardous drums that are largely unsecured. [My world of the day interfered somewhat with my concentration; I work in regulatory compliance and was uncomfortable and could not help but audit their unsafe workspace]. Their nacht der liebe was really quite impressive and largely not interfered with.

Marke showing up was quite something, and René Pape is so good he took my mind off the safety violations. And, curiously for this staging, Tristan was still on stage during Marke's monologue! They interacted! Isolde went off to change dresses, though. Marke's monologue ends


> Warum mir diese Schmach? Den unerforschlich tief geheimnisvollen Grund, wer macht der Welt ihn kund?
> (Why this disgrace? The uncharted depths of its mysterious causes, who will make them known to the world?)


and Tristan says that he cannot answer, and at this moment Riwalin appears behind him, suggesting that the Tristan is behaving wildly and without honor because he had a difficult childhood. [This is why Tristan is presented as being without honor in the first act; otherwise our objection would be that Tristan changed due to the love potion and his intense love for Isolde that cannot find fulfillment].

Only Tristan and Isolde are shown when he asks her to follow him through to death. [To be clear, these instances of the other characters going away are due to the lighting, scrims blocking the other part of the stage, and the singers just walking off stage; it's not just that the camera goes off them. (Though I have not seen this on stage and could perhaps be wrong in some instances. But for the most part, we can see blank space around the singing characters)].

Tristan, plays with his gun, looks as if he's going to shoot himself, then challenges Melot, and then gets into a fight with the random soldiers (but not Melot) and is shot in the close quarters melee. It is not clear how he got shot; no one else is seen with a gun.

Act 3 is perhaps the worst. During the prelude we again see the video of young Tristan and Riwalin. The scrim remains in front of the entire stage for the entire act. Tristan is in a hospital bed. Kurvenal tends to him, then goes away. A child walks on dressed in the same clothes as Tristan.

I can't bring myself to describe much of this. It is, again, largely problematic physically. We are taken into Tristan's ravings (and see the burnt out remains of his childhood home. Riwalin's white coat didn't burn in the fire, though. The child-Tristan eventually comes in dressed in a dirty version of Riwalin's white coat, climbs on the table, dumps clear liquid (alcohol?) around and throws the bottle down, resulting in a flash of (laughably terrible) flames on the scrim. I was unsuccessful at suppressing my laughter in the theater as the staging had completely lost me.

It was impressive how quickly the burnt home went away and we were back to the reality of Tristan and his hospital bed. Isolde arrives and gets to see him briefly, then she goes off by herself and at


> Nicht meine Klagen darf ich dir sagen?
> (translated as something like "May I not show you my pain?"


she cuts her wrist and up her arm, then smears the blood around her other arm. (Again, Isolde wanted a last chance to share the pain of living with Tristan; she did not kill herself because she was sad that he had died).

We now enter Isolde's delirium and never see Marke's men arrive and fight with Kurvenal and Tristan's. At the greatest chaos (just before Marke enters) the lighting changes and we're back to a clear empty hospital room.



> MARKE: O Trug und Wahn! Tristan, wo bist du?
> (Deceit and madness! Tristan, where are you?)
> 
> KURVENAL: Da liegt er - hier - wo ich - liege.
> (Incorrectly translated as "He is dead; he is gone")


They use the incorrect translation because Tristan's body is not actually there. Marke expresses his sadness then leaves. Brangäne expresses concern for Isolde, then backs out the door before waiting for an answer. Isolde begins her Liebestod alone, on the empty hospital bed. Eventually she walks over to where Tristan is sitting on a bench, sits down next to him and rests her head on his shoulder.

I suppose it was an interesting attempt at showing how they have lost touch with reality, but the naturalistic sets and unnatural stage action took away from that, for me.

So there were parts that were still stunning. Brangäne and Isolde had some fantastic interactions in the first act. Tristan and Isolde were great throughout much of the second act, and Marke's monologue was top notch. I was done and barely cared about any of it during the third act. Stemme was exceptional, as was Pape. Stuart Skelton sang weakly until his character changed when he took the love potion, after that the character got his confidence he sounded strong.

I would listen to it again. I would not watch it again.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Long explanation of the characterization here: Tristan is shown as pathetic in the first act because he was never honorable. He had a troubled childhood, including possibly watching his father kill himself. He doesn't have that much of a love for Isolde, he's just lashing out at Riwalin and Marke. He gets into a fight with Marke's men because he's erratic, not because he's longing for the end of the world of day and its limitations. Isolde has fallen for Tristan, though, and is terribly upset when he dies, so she kills herself.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^^^^ Morbid pre-occupation with suicides it seems for this director, my understanding of Tristan's backstory before opera begins is that his *father died defending Marke *during an invasion of their village when Tristan was young boy and Marke raised him like his own son, thus the close bond between them and the reason Tristan was his most trusted knight......

The suicide of Isolde is complete detour from opera lyrics, actually other than the song title there is no mention of death in the Liebestodd, it is joyous rapture, a glorious vision and transformation of Isolde's mortal form to spiritually join Tristan is the stars above......if you don't read the lyrics listen to the music it never lies, swelling spiraling upwards in ever growing excitement and rapture to eclipse and end in peaceful harmony......no sadness or remorse to be found


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> Tristan in the first act was pathetic. He creepily stood over a sleeping Isolde during the prelude, but slunk out of the room before she stirred. This was not a man of honor, he drank instant coffee. They also show him executing the bound and blindfolded Morold, with a bunch of admirals/generals/whatever watching. This was not personal combat on the field of battle; it was a war crime. Tristan's soldiers/sailors (on this warship) also are rapey/creepy towards Brangäne and Isolde, which was very uncomfortable.
> 
> The interactions between Isolde and Brangäne were very compelling. During their scenes together I could get swept away. Both Nina Stemme and Ekatarina Gubanova acted and sounded wonderful.
> 
> ...


Excellent review, couldn't agree more.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

mountmccabe said:


> Tristan in the first act was pathetic. He creepily stood over a sleeping Isolde during the prelude, but slunk out of the room before she stirred. This was not a man of honor, he drank instant coffee. They also show him executing the bound and blindfolded Morold, with a bunch of admirals/generals/whatever watching. This was not personal combat on the field of battle; it was a war crime. Tristan's soldiers/sailors (on this warship) also are rapey/creepy towards Brangäne and Isolde, which was very uncomfortable.
> 
> The interactions between Isolde and Brangäne were very compelling. During their scenes together I could get swept away. Both Nina Stemme and Ekatarina Gubanova acted and sounded wonderful.
> 
> ...


This review just about sums it up. I would agree that "Brangäne and Isolde had some fantastic interactions in the first act. Tristan and Isolde were great [singing wise] throughout much of the second act," but unfortunately the staging made them appear about as passionate as a chaste Bible belt pair on a first date. With all the supercharged and erotic music going on they were sometimes on other parts of the stage!
The problem is when an opinionated, untalented hack like Treliński gets hold of a masterpiece he thinks he must show us something new about it to our enlightened eyes. Hence the nonsense with tristan's troubled childhood. Hence the nonsense of the boy (unaccountably omitted by Wagner - what an oversight Richard!) crawling over the bed with the cigarette lighter. The problem is the opera is not about Tristan's troubled childhood and all these idiot ideas just seek to distract us from what tristan is really about. 
To show Tristan as a pathetic character completely violates the text as Wagner's tristan is 'a hero' who has won Isolde for Marke. Tristan apparently shoots himself as he's being restrained by the soldiers in trying to kill Melot. Pity Wagner didn't notice that bit. The love duet is set in an underground warehouse of all places? How romantic! And everything so unrelieved in the darkness. I thought the opera was about light and darkness? I also thought Tristan's trusty servant dies defending his master rather than walking off the stage. One could go on as my irritation grew all evening as time after time this daft production violated Wagner's text. 
Of all operas, Tristan perhaps needs the least interpretation, something Wieland Wagner showed us. Just wind it up and let it run!
The musical side was great, especially the orchestra and the women. Rattle's conducting was superb imo. The production was a typical Regietheatre nonsense by a talentless hack who should not be allowed near an opera house. In case you think I'm damning, a couple down from me had the same opinion. "Absolute cr+p," said the lady!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Ok, here's mine.

1. The orchestra - no criticisms there whatsoever - it was wonderful. Not too fast, not too dragging, and none of the subtler moments during the love duet got lost. The greatest music on Earth got to shine in all its glory last night.

2. The singing - leads. Very good but not perfect, and Tristan was better than Isolde. Maybe it it a strange criterion for evaluation of vocals, but I like the female Wagner roles to be sung very clearly. My favorite Isoldes - Waltraud Meier, Birgit Nilsson, assert themselves over the orchestra in such a way that one can hear almost every word. Nina Stemme is not quite that strong, but still very good for our times.

3. The singing - other roles. I really, really loved Brangäne! Especially that call in the night, ghostly and urgent, and yet somehow dreamy. And I actually shed a tear for King Marke. I know many other Wagnerians find his monologue in Act 2 to be somewhat boring, but I for one, find it to be moving - a bitter complaint of a man who has been crossed by the two people dearest to him, and who has not deserved it in any way.

4. The staging and the acting. Surprisingly, I actually liked that whole naval-military aesthetic. Since the notions of duty, honor and unconditional loyalty (Tristan's to the king and Kurwenal's to Tristan) are so prominent in the opera, making the characters into military men could undescore these notions very well. And I also think there is potential to the idea of Tristan's spirit departing from him during his delirium and walking about as a little child.

However, there were so many clumsy, unnatural and un-Wagnerian moments in both the staging and the interaction between characters that they almost destroyed whatever Wagnerian magic this performance did contain.

One moment that I found almost comical was in Act I when Isolde drinks the potion and then walks around with a glass in her hand. Is the MET on such a tight budget that they cannot afford her to simply drop that darned glass? She is expecting to drop dead in a moment herself!

In Act 2 when the King's men break in on the couple, Tristan's instinctive reaction, according to Wagner, is to cover Isolde's body with his cloak, protecting her first. Does not happen here.

Generally, Tristan often acts in ways that suggest a weakly, emasculated guy, not a hero, a man's man that Wagner portrayed him to be. And there is little chemistry between the couple. During the love duet they walk around most of the time without even touching each other.

If I were the director, the love duet would take place up on the deck, under the stars, with the polar lights blazing overhead (they did blaze once - just not at the right moment!) - not somewhere deep down in the ship's hold around dusty barrels.

The clothes Isolde and Brangäne wore under their overcoats were godawful, especially that Angela Merkel-esque pant suit in Act 1.

Apparently the stage director believes modern man to be so emotionally desensitized that he cannot understand dying "merely" of a broken heart anymore, hence the decision to introduce a "visible" means of suicide - Tristan shooting himself and Isolde cutting herself. I would really love to get a chance to ask the stage director whether that really was his motive. Except that desensitized men generally do not attend Wagner operas. And the job of a stage director consists of recreating the composer's vision, not reexplaining it in ways that his audience would supposedly find more palatable.

Ah yes, and he totally ruined one of the most moving moments in the entire opera: the moment where Kurwenal, as he lies dying, reaches for Tristan's hand with the last words:

_Tristan! Trauter!
Schilt mich nicht,
dass der Treue auch mitkommt!_

Tristan! Faithful friend!
Do not scold me
if your faithful friend comes with you!

Kurwenal remains loyal to his friend even unto death - according to Wagner's vision. According to the MET's vision he simply walks off the stage...

Would I see it again, considering all of the above? I think I would. The music redeems everything. They have not yet found a way to ruin that - at least for now.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> my understanding of Tristan's backstory before opera begins is that his father died defending Marke during an invasion of their village when Tristan was young boy


Is that in the libretto?


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

DavidA said:


> To show Tristan as a pathetic character completely violates the text as Wagner's tristan is 'a hero' who has won Isolde for Marke.


Yes, he won a lot for Marke. But otherwise? His childhood was a mess, he is always longing for death. He kills Isolde's Morold and then cowardly hides under the name Tantris. When that doesn't work he has to rely on Isolde's pity (or accidental love) to get away. He promises "eternal thanks and fidelity" to the girl who saved his life only to then betray her by persuading an old man to buy her as part of a political deal. And then he refuses to talk to her, to even look her in the eye. Again, cowardly. Is that heroic?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

My impression was that Tristan's father committed suicide, possibly due to some conflict of duty and honor of his own. But that is not anywhere in the libretto either, so pretty much irrelevant.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> One moment that I found almost comical was in Act I when Isolde drinks the potion and then walks around with a glass in her hand. Is the MET on such a tight budget that they cannot afford her to simply drop that darned glass?


:lol: Same here.

Also comical: The _dancing_ soldiers with the airport lights on the top of the scne at the end of Act 1.

And the way the child climbs onto that mountain of Tristan in the third act. Showing little young Tristan is not a ridiculous idea per se, but the way it was done there turned the sadness and melancholia into playful cuteness. Did the boy really open Tristan eyelids with his hands like Donald Duck would do or was that my imagination?

And the ECG in act 3 that was showing Tristan's heartbeats long after he left the bed.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

interestedin said:


> :lol: Same here.
> 
> Also comical: The _dancing_ soldiers with the airport lights on the top of the scne at the end of Act 1.
> 
> ...


Pity Wagner didn't put it in the libretto then!


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

DavidA said:


> Pity Wagner didn't put it in the libretto then!


That's allright. It's a libretto, not a law after all.

My problem with Trelinski's approach was that it focussed almost entirely on Tristan. His father and in act 3 his younger self seemingly randomly walk in and out like cats who happen to live in the same environment. Even in moments where they don't belong. 
Where is Isolde? Where is the love?


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Ok, here's mine.
> Apparently the stage director believes modern man to be so emotionally desensitized tha*t he cannot understand dying "merely" of a broken heart anymore, hence the decision to introduce a "visible" means of suicid*e - Tristan shooting himself and Isolde cutting herself. I would really love to get a chance to ask the stage director whether that really was his motive. Except that desensitized men generally do not attend Wagner operas. And the job of a stage director consists of recreating the composer's vision, not reexplaining it in ways that his audience would supposedly find more palatable.


Duck had a good observation in a Lohengrin discussion about why Elsa is allowed to die at the end, during the mid 1800s at the height of the romantic movement in the arts to symbolically "die for love" was considered true pure devotion and a noble concept and thus appealing to audiences then......perhaps this is not fully appreciated by todays audience



> Is that in the libretto?


Since the opera Tristan and Isolde begins with the ship voyage of Tristan bringing Isolde to King Marke for a political arranged marriage we are left to our own devices to discover the "backstory" of what happened leading up to this point although some fragments/clues are revealed in discussions between Tristan and Isolde.......

I find knowing the backstory really helps with understanding what happens going forward in the opera itself, check out the movie version very cheap used at Amazon, not an official historical document but I find it very useful and mildly entertaining


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

DarkAngel said:


> my understanding of Tristan's backstory before opera begins is that his father died defending Marke during an invasion of their village when Tristan was young boy





interestedin said:


> Is that in the libretto?


All that Tristan says about his parents is in the middle of his ravings in Act 3.



> Must I understand you thus,
> you ancient, solemn tune
> with your plaintive tones?
> Through the evening air
> ...


The section I cut is longer than what remains, to be clear. And it is mostly about Isolde; he "prepared the draught" by going to Ireland to get Isolde after their history together. In the first act (scene 3) he responds to Brangäne with "were I to leave the helm at this very hour, how could I safely steer the craft to King Mark's land?" there's a double-meaning there, and he knows it (though I'm OK with him not actually steering the ship at all leaving it as entirely figuratively).

At any rate, the various stories of Tristan's lineage are not consistent. In the Gottfried von Strassburg version Riwalin marries Blanschefleur, Marke's sister. She becomes pregnant, and he is killed in battle. When Branschefleur hears about Riwalin's death she dies of sorrow, but baby Tristan survives.

This was Wagner's main source, and while that does not leave the work tied to it, this is basically the story Tristan tells in the section above, though he is a little incoherent. Or, perhaps, poetic.

I'm fine with adding the following parenthetical to "once brought news to the child" (while he was still in his mother's womb). This matches with the next line about becoming aware of his mother's death via the grey light of morning; he had the same amount of awareness of both, at the time. I think the keys here are tying together birth and death, and suggesting an awareness beyond life.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> The clothes Isolde and Brangäne wore under their overcoats were godawful, especially that Angela Merkel-esque pant suit in Act 1.


I really like their outfits, especially in act 1. Isolde also had a great overcoat.

It's possible I liked their outfits so much because they were a nice contrast to the military outfits everyone else wore. And, to clarify, I didn't have a problem with the naval-military aesthetic. And that's a good point that there are similar notions of honor, so it could well work.

But just in terms of pleasing visual aesthetics, I found the costumes for the men to be boring. The creepy crew members all looked alike to me. And amongst these costumes, even though they still stayed in the black/grey/white (non) color scheme, the outfits Isolde and Brangäne wore had a pleasing variety of fabrics, patterns, and pieces.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Forgot to mention: I did like Brangäne's black outfit she wore in Act 2.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Wonderful review mountmccabe, you had me at _"This was not a man of honor, he drank instant coffee"_.

Sad to hear about the off-libretto directorial conceits, that stuff irritates me to no end. Still I'm not about to miss the pairing of Nina Stemme, whose power I know from her Elektra and Turandot here last season, and Stuart Skelton, who I've been on the look out for ever since his formidable Das Leid von der Erde with the Chicago Symphony a few years ago. To that end, I just nabbed a pair of tickets that just came available up in the Family Circle for Thursday evening's performance. Perhaps from that distance we'll be able to revel in the music without being subject to much of the director's antics.


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

And just a note about Isolde's final monologue: Wagner never called it "Liebestod," but "Verklärung", i.e., transfiguration.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

kineno said:


> And just a note about Isolde's final monologue: Wagner never called it "Liebestod," but *"Verklärung", *i.e., transfiguration.


Much more accurate description, wonder why it became so commonly referred to as Liebestod on all the CDs etc?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DarkAngel said:


> Much more accurate description, wonder why it became so commonly referred to as Liebestod on all the CDs etc?


"Wagner called the Prelude the 'Liebestod' (Love-death) while Isolde's final aria "Mild und leise" he called the 'Verklärung' (Transfiguration)."

Not that that answers your question.


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> Much more accurate description, wonder why it became so commonly referred to as Liebestod on all the CDs etc?


It seems to me that it was Mottl that first applied the term to the monologue; I'll have to do some digging to make sure. Wagner did, however, use the term for the act 2 duet!


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

amfortas said:


> Wagner referred to the prelude as "Liebestod"--not that that answers your question.


I think it was the act 2 duet. But I'm going to do some checking!


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

kineno said:


> I think it was the act 2 duet. But I'm going to do some checking!


Ah- you were right; he did apply it to the act 1 Prelude. And Liszt was the first to apply it to the conclusion of act 3.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

kineno said:


> Ah- you were right; he did apply it to the act 1 Prelude. And Liszt was the first to apply it to the conclusion of act 3.


And then Wagner started calling Liszt the "Liebestod."


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

An excellent source for this information is a book by Robert Bailey, a college professor of mine, from whom I took a couple of Wagner courses: https://www.amazon.com/Prelude-Tran...6052333&sr=8-1&keywords=Robert+bailey+Tristan


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

From Robert Bailey book


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## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

From Bailey book


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Another ridiculous staging. What are you Goerne do?


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

Some thoughts on the performance I saw yesterday (HD transmission in theatres). 

This was the best vocal performance of the main characters since Eaglen/Heppner and probably the best in many decades. Also the best conducted. Stemme was masterly throughout – some vibrato on sustained notes, but mostly warm round tones of very accurate pitch. I liked how Rattle suspended the tempo at Isolde’s first top C and Stemme’s voice literally sailed throughout the house. Skelton was good at sustaining long phrases and good tone, no short, choppy sprech-stimme. 

Production was unattractive, too dark, overly psychologized. The “Nazi” coats are back. Designers’ fixation with heavy, manly overcoats on female characters has been going on for 25 years. How original! The introduction of mute characters (Tristan as a boy) is tedious. The use of a video backdrop was okay, but wasn’t put to best use – except for one instance that I can recall (Isolde’s gaze into Tristan’s eyes as she lets the sword fall). The staging should be beautiful to look at, but there was little beauty on display here – very contrary to Wagner’s intentions. Instead we got lots of railings, chemical barrels, ship machinery etc. I thought Isolde was going to sing the Liebestod to an empty hospital bed, but then Tristan re-appears in the final moments in full dress sitting in his ship pilot’s seat – distractions that derailed the continuity of the scene. 

A great performance to listen to.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Scott in PA said:


> Some thoughts on the performance I saw yesterday (HD transmission in theatres).
> 
> This was the best vocal performance of the main characters since Eaglen/Heppner and probably the best in many decades. Also the best conducted. Stemme was masterly throughout - some vibrato on sustained notes, but mostly warm round tones of very accurate pitch. I liked how Rattle suspended the tempo at Isolde's first top C and Stemme's voice literally sailed throughout the house. Skelton was good at sustaining long phrases and good tone, no short, choppy sprech-stimme.
> 
> ...


I do think that's the overall opinion.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Another ridiculous staging. What are you Goerne do?


Are there any non-ridiculous stagings of Tristan und Isolde at all, running anywhere in the world that you know of?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Are there any non-ridiculous stagings of Tristan und Isolde at all, running anywhere in the world that you know of?


I agree we can be happy if the first act take place on one kind of floating vessel. But not a dingy because that looks stupid and you shall not stand up in small boats.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Does anybody know if or when the MET will release the video of that performance?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Sloe said:


> I agree we can be happy if the first act take place on one kind of floating vessel. But not a dingy because that looks stupid and you shall not stand up in small boats.


Is there anything at all to be done against this cultural degradation?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Is there anything at all to be done against this cultural degradation?


Patronize only those productions that meet your approval. If you can't find any, start an opera company of your own and stage the works as you see fit.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

My patronizing or not patronizing anything has no effect as long as I am a single person. Now, if there were ten thousand opera-goers putting their foot down and saying: "Enough!"....


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

If you want a ship, a tree and a tree on a ship (?) maybe this is something for you:

Caballe, Fassbaender, Moll:






Caballe's use of the German text is..creative at times.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

interestedin said:


> Does anybody know if or when the MET will release the video of that performance?


I do think that's anybody's guess, will be later on demand though.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

amfortas said:


> Patronize only those productions that meet your approval. If you can't find any, start an opera company of your own and stage the works as you see fit.


If I had paid Met prices to see that appalling production I would be asking for my money back just like when I get a bad steak at a restaurant. If the public did this instead of accepting the Euro-trash that is put before them, perhaps there would be a little less of it.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> If I had paid Met prices to see that appalling production I would be asking for my money back just like when I get a bad steak at a restaurant. If the public did this instead of accepting the Euro-trash that is put before them, perhaps there would be a little less of it.


_Caveat emptor._ There's plenty of opportunity to learn what type of production it is *before* you buy a ticket.

You can always express your disapproval by organizing a boycott--so long as you're not preventing others from viewing the performance if they so choose.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

DavidA said:


> If I had paid Met prices to see that appalling production I would be asking for my money back


Good luck......


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

5 hours of the best music of all time with excellent musicians, vocalists and impeccable acoustics was well worth the 25 dollars I paid, regardless of the production.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> impeccable acoustics


IMO the acoustics were horrible. For me they were far more annoying than the production. The MET slogan is "This voice must be heard" - and indeed they always artificially put the singers over the orchestra. I am okay with that when they do it to Don Giovanni, but not to Tristan. There are so many fascinating, colorful details in the rich orchestra's part which remained unheard. The voices on the other hand come across as far bigger than they actually are, always drowning the orchestra, not melting with it. Compare the scenes at the beginning of act 3: At first there was one single English horn and it was very present. But as soon as Kurwenal's joy over awakening Tristan came, the orchestra's outburst was reduced to being barely audible. I wonder if those broadcasts are made for people who don't usually go to the opera?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

They are made for people who cannot travel halfway across the world to see an opera in New York....


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> They are made for people who cannot travel halfway across the world to see an opera in New York....


I know, that's why I was there, too. I only wonder why so many complain about the untraditional productions but hardly anyone notices the unnatural singer/orchestra balance that does not reflect what this opera traditionally sounds like...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

jailhouse said:


> 5 hours of the best music of all time with excellent musicians, vocalists and impeccable acoustics was well worth the 25 dollars I paid, regardless of the production.


I pay €35.00, so for two of us that's €70.00.
I do expect better for that money, despite the names.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> If I had paid Met prices to see that appalling production I would be asking for my money back just like when I get a bad steak at a restaurant. If the public did this instead of accepting the Euro-trash that is put before them, perhaps there would be a little less of it.


Completely agree. What's the point of great singing with awful staging like the current MET production. Can you begin to imagine what Wagner himself would have said after viewing this production? 
HIDE THE KIDS!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

It's about time the folks who pay big bucks throughout Europe and America to see world class opera vote with their pocketbooks.

Calling it "Eurotrash" is too kind.

Great singing. Incompetent staging.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

interestedin said:


> IMO the acoustics were horrible. For me they were far more annoying than the production. The MET slogan is "This voice must be heard" - and indeed they always artificially put the singers over the orchestra. I am okay with that when they do it to Don Giovanni, but not to Tristan. There are so many fascinating, colorful details in the rich orchestra's part which remained unheard. The voices on the other hand come across as far bigger than they actually are, always drowning the orchestra, not melting with it. Compare the scenes at the beginning of act 3: At first there was one single English horn and it was very present. But as soon as Kurwenal's joy over awakening Tristan came, the orchestra's outburst was reduced to being barely audible. I wonder if those broadcasts are made for people who don't usually go to the opera?


You're talking about the live HD version.. I went to see it at Lincoln Center. You can't compare a miced version for broadcast to the acoustics of an actual concert hall.

At points the singers were definitely singing too quietly over the orchestra actually.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> You're talking about the live HD version.. I went to see it at Lincoln Center. You can't compare a miced version for broadcast to the acoustics of an actual concert hall.


Okay that makes sense!  I assumed you saw the live HD version like most of us in the thread here. But you are proving my point when you write:



jailhouse said:


> At points the singers were definitely singing too quietly over the orchestra actually.


Because that was definitely not the case in the broadcast where so much of the orchestral music was lost in favor of the singing.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I've always found the singer-heavy balances and lack of acoustic around the voices annoying in Met broadcasts, and not only because the singing can mask the orchestra. It's unflattering to any voice, but makes the usual second- and third-rate singers sound even less attractive than they would in the house. Only really beautiful voices sound good with such dry, close miking (sorry, I just can't spell it "micing"!).


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Completely agree. What's the point of great singing with awful staging like the current MET production. Can you begin to imagine what Wagner himself would have said after viewing this production?
> HIDE THE KIDS!!!


The problem was here was nothing to hide the kids from. Passionless production which just seemed fixed on some pointless detail in Tristan's boyhood. The love duet was hopeless. All the erotic music going on and they are wandering about the stage!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I've always found the singer-heavy balances and lack of acoustic around the voices annoying in Met broadcasts, and not only because the singing can mask the orchestra. It's unflattering to any voice, but makes the usual second- and third-rate singers sound even less attractive than they would in the house. Only really beautiful voices sound good with such dry, close miking (sorry, I just can't spell it "micing"!).


The problem is it is a broadcast in a cinema. Hence there will always be compromises.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> The problem is it is a broadcast in a cinema. Hence there will always be compromises.


I say Amen to this.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

So, I just saw _Tristan_ at the met last night. While the conducting (Simon Rattle) and singing (Nina Stemme, Stuart Skelton) was excellent, I just couldn't stand the production. I know we've established this in this thread already, but it really was terrible. During the prelude, I had to close my eyes so I could focus on the music instead of the giant, weird ship-sonar-thing projected onto the stage. Video projections are so overused in opera these days, and very rarely add anything to the production. This _Tristan_ was no exception.
In general, I don't mind more "modern" productions. But this was truly awful. During the first act, supposedly Tristan was watching Isolde through security camera footage. This footage was displayed prominently on stage.But the way it was filmed, between the angle and the grainy, "night vision" camera effect, it just looked like something out of a "Finding Bigfoot" reality tv show or something.
Another prominently featured projection was these bizarre smoke rings that showed up whenever Tristan and Isolde were "being passionate". What they possibly meant is beyond me (but perhaps the fault here is mine)!
Also, I was very surprised, because I think there was a mistake with the lighting. After Tristan dies, they wanted everyone, including him, to get off stage. So, in the dark, he was supposed to get up and walk off stage. However, I think they forgot to turn the spotlight off! So for the entire audience to witness, Tristan rose from the dead, and causally walked off stage. Did people on other nights see this as well? Or was it a mistake?
At first, I was confused by the production. Then, I was angered by it. But by the end it had me bursting out laughing, literally.

I don't mean to sound too bitter. I really enjoyed the night. I just felt like ranting .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I


ma7730 said:


> So, I just saw _Tristan_ at the met last night. While the conducting (Simon Rattle) and singing (Nina Stemme, Stuart Skelton) was excellent, I just couldn't stand the production. I know we've established this in this thread already, but it really was terrible. During the prelude, I had to close my eyes so I could focus on the music instead of the giant, weird ship-sonar-thing projected onto the stage. Video projections are so overused in opera these days, and very rarely add anything to the production. This _Tristan_ was no exception.
> In general, I don't mind more "modern" productions. But this was truly awful. During the first act, supposedly Tristan was watching Isolde through security camera footage. This footage was displayed prominently on stage.But the way it was filmed, between the angle and the grainy, "night vision" camera effect, it just looked like something out of a "Finding Bigfoot" reality tv show or something.
> Another prominently featured projection was these bizarre smoke rings that showed up whenever Tristan and Isolde were "being passionate". What they possibly meant is beyond me (but perhaps the fault here is mine)!
> Also, I was very surprised, because I think there was a mistake with the lighting. After Tristan dies, they wanted everyone, including him, to get off stage. So, in the dark, he was supposed to get up and walk off stage. However, I think they forgot to turn the spotlight off! So for the entire audience to witness, Tristan rose from the dead, and causally walked off stage. Did people on other nights see this as well? Or was it a mistake?
> ...


Hope you asked for your money back. Lousy staging.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

ma7730 said:


> So, I just saw _Tristan_ at the met last night. While the conducting (Simon Rattle) and singing (Nina Stemme, Stuart Skelton) was excellent, I just couldn't stand the production. I know we've established this in this thread already, but it really was terrible. During the prelude, I had to close my eyes so I could focus on the music instead of the giant, weird ship-sonar-thing projected onto the stage. Video projections are so overused in opera these days, and very rarely add anything to the production. This _Tristan_ was no exception.
> In general, I don't mind more "modern" productions. But this was truly awful. During the first act, supposedly Tristan was watching Isolde through security camera footage. This footage was displayed prominently on stage.But the way it was filmed, between the angle and the grainy, "night vision" camera effect, it just looked like something out of a "Finding Bigfoot" reality tv show or something.
> Another prominently featured projection was these bizarre smoke rings that showed up whenever Tristan and Isolde were "being passionate". What they possibly meant is beyond me (but perhaps the fault here is mine)!
> Also, I was very surprised, because I think there was a mistake with the lighting. *After Tristan dies, they wanted everyone, including him, to get off stage. So, in the dark, he was supposed to get up and walk off stage. However, I think they forgot to turn the spotlight off! So for the entire audience to witness, Tristan rose from the dead, and causally walked off stage. Did people on other nights see this as well? Or was it a mistake?*
> ...


I May be wrong but I don't remember that from the cinema Broadcast. So it probably was a mistake. I actuall liked the idea of Tristan being invisible during the Liebestod, invisible for everybody but Isolde ("Seht ihr's nicht?" - "Do You not See it?") which Shows he is gone to the night and Isolde is about to follow him into that other world.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I
> 
> Hope you asked for your money back. Lousy staging.


Actually, a friend took me, so that was his job!


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

I was at the Thursday evening performance also, not much to add to the consensus. I feel like I saw a well done foreign art film about political intrigue and suspense with a minor subplot about some sort of love interest... oh and an exceptionally good score - so good that it was a distraction to and trivialized by the images of the floundering boat, burning house, etc.. Whatever it was, and however engaging it might been in some aspects, it wasn't the story of Tristan and Isolde. Seems like the director lavished his attention on the five minutes of high activity military gung-ho at the end of each act and the rest was perfunctory. As Alex Ross observed in his New Yorker review, one expected Matt Damon to appear at any moment in full, black turtle-necked Jason Bourne action mode.

As I think about it, Wagner, with his penchant for long, declarative flashback scenes would seem a good match for this director's penchant for cinematographic effects, but let's stick with the original story, or at least the correct genre of movie.


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