# Prokofiev piano concerto #3 - what's that all about!?



## juliante

Ranked highly by TC voters, to me it just seems silly, almost clownishly so. Why is it rated so highly? I managed three full listens and I really can't see what it is going to offer me.


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## joen_cph

Out of curiosity, which recording did you hear?

One could perhaps say that there are certain "circus"-like elements in it - but much more than that, such as in the broad beginning.


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## juliante

joen_cph said:


> Out of curiosity, which recording did you hear?
> 
> One could perhaps say that there are certain "circus"-like elements in it - but much more than that, such as in the broad beginning.


Kun Woo Paik, Polish National Radio Orchestra


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## Pugg

I would recommend : Ashkenazy and Argerich, sublime performances


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## joen_cph

I know that recording, it´s not faulty or bad for a start. Some pianists tend to bring a more liveliness and stringency to it, such as Argerich or Lang-Lang.

However, appreciating the music probably also has to do with liking some of the more "biting" music of the 20th century. 
Surely, the concerto is one of the generally milder, more classicist Prokofiev works, and less brusque than say Stravinsky´s 3 most famous ballets. There are times, when my mood isn´t for such music, but mostly I like it. 

If you like something even more brusque and unpredictable, the piano concertos 2, 4 & 5 have more of that.


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## juliante

joen_cph said:


> I know that recording, it´s not faulty or bad for a start. Some pianists tend to bring a more liveliness and stringency to it, such as Argerich or Lang-Lang.
> 
> However, appreciating the music probably also has to do with liking some of the more "biting" music of the 20th century.
> Surely, the concerto is one of the generally milder, more classicist Prokofiev works, and less brusque than say Stravinsky´s 3 most famous ballets. There are times, when my mood isn´t for such music, but mostly I like it.
> 
> If you like something even more brusque and unpredictable, the piano concertos 2, 4 & 5 have more of that.


Thanks. I guess I do find it brusque... but that is not necessarily a problem for me.. I am getting used to 20C music... Is it all about the rhythm and not so much melody with this piece? I like melody...


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## joen_cph

Hm, to me there´s a lot of quite long melodies there.


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## Scarr

That's a nice performance. Got it a few years ago.Argerich is an exciting one as well.


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## juliante

joen_cph said:


> Hm, to me there´s a lot of quite long melodies there.


Ok you've persuaded me! I'll try again.


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## Guest

You might try his 2nd Piano Concerto. It's darker and less "clownish"!


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## Strange Magic

juliante said:


> Ranked highly by TC voters, to me it just seems silly, almost clownishly so. Why is it rated so highly? I managed three full listens and I really can't see what it is going to offer me.


What other sorts of piano concertos do you like? I'm trying to get my mind around the Prokofiev 3 as being almost clownishly silly. Is there other Prokofiev that you like? Warning: the suggestion that you'll like Prokofiev 2 better may be severely tested--if anything, it is more astonishing than 3, especially that monster first movement. Best of luck.

Try Cliburn/Hendl for the Proko 3, and try Krainev/Kitaenko for the Proko 2. If you don't like them, be assured the Proko concertos are not your cup of tea. Not now, anyway.


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## juliante

Strange Magic said:


> What other sorts of piano concertos do you like? I'm trying to get my mind around the Prokofiev 3 as being almost clownishly silly. Is there other Prokofiev that you like? Warning: the suggestion that you'll like Prokofiev 2 better may be severely tested--if anything, it is more astonishing than 3, especially that monster first movement. Best of luck.
> 
> Try Cliburn/Hendl for the Proko 3, and try Krainev/Kitaenko for the Proko 2. If you don't like them, be assured the Proko concertos are not your cup of tea. Not now, anyway.


Thanks - I did try your recs.....yes I think I am going to revisit proko concertos in the future....! I am sure they will click when I am ready.


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## Strange Magic

juliante said:


> Thanks - I did try your recs.....yes I think I am going to revisit proko concertos in the future....! I am sure they will click when I am ready.


I am a "Huge" fan of the first three Proko piano concertos; no denying this. The Third is one that makes me weepy in one section, in pleasure and gratitude to this rather nasty man who could write such beautiful music. I know nothing of musical notation, so I can't tell you exactly where that is, but it's in the slower part of the concerto, and I think others may know that part and react the same way. Hope you get to know his concertos better.


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## superhorn

This is exactly what makes this and so many other Prokofiev works so appealing to me . This concerto is so effervescent and witty it's hard to resist . It's like playing with a bunch of mischievous, rambunctious ferrets !


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## Rach Man

Interesting that Prokofiev #3 was brought up. I was just introduced to it and find it truly amazing. I am more of a guy who likes symphonies. But this concerto has great orchestration and the piano that was written is right up my alley, truly spectacular. It has become one of my all-time favorite concertos. 

I have two renditions of the piece, Argerich with Abbado (Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra) and Gutierrez with Jarvi (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra). I prefer Argerich, but Gutierrez does a great job, too. However, it is interesting how people perceive the same piece of music, differently.


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## KenOC

Listening right now to Matsuev/Gergiev doing Prokofiev's 3rd. Prokofiev wrote it over several years and played the premiere in Chicago in 1921. What a great concerto it is! Everything is just right. It was a hit from the beginning, Prokofiev's only concerto that he was asked to record in his lifetime.

Light on its feet with many memorable themes and passages, any profundity is purely coincidental and is not missed.


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## Triplets

juliante said:


> Kun Woo Paik, Polish National Radio Orchestra


That is a pretty good recording.
I didn't care for this piece it first, but after I got to know his first two PCs, which I greatly enjoy, I was more receptive and began to appreciate 3. My favorite recording is Beroff/Mazur but there numerous excellent recordings many of which are being mentioned here.


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## FBerwald

As someone who grew up strictly on a diet of classical and romantic (and to a certain extent baroque) music, I have a lot of trouble warming up Modern or post romantic music. Yet Prokofiev's 3rd piano concerto seems to me a magnificent and beautiful composition. I guess I approach it like I'd an impressionist painting. too close and all that's there is a mess of colours but stand back and look at the whole picture and it truly is spectacular. I admit I still find Prokofiev's solo piano music difficult to digest. Sometimes repeated hearing is necessary for complex pieces.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Pugg said:


> I would recommend : Ashkenazy and Argerich, sublime performances


...and Cliburn with Hendl/Chicago Symphony


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## Tchaikov6

Kapell with Dorati and the Dallas Symphony Orchestra is my absolute favorite recording.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Wang with Abbado and Lucerne FO is also very good.


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## hpowders

The first time I heard it when I was around 15, it hit me right away with its kaleidoscopic brilliance and I've been loving it ever since, thanks to Van Cliburn and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra directed by Walter Hendl.

OP: Perhaps if you hear this brilliant performance of the Prokofiev Third Piano Concerto, it may change your mind.


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> ...and Cliburn with Hendl/Chicago Symphony


Completely agreed with you.


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## KenOC

Back in the day, the "standard" Prokofiev's 3rd Piano Concerto was Gary Graffman's, with Szell. This was before he lost the use of his right hand. There are other more recent ones, some very fine, but Graffman's is still good.


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## DavidA

In addition to the above Byron Janis plays a white hot performance from Moscow.


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## Roger Knox

> Ranked highly by TC voters, to me it just seems silly, almost clownishly so.


 I think this is an apt comment. Having played it in a competition here are some ideas. Prokofiev himself described his musical language as having lyrical, grotesque (silly?), satirical (clownish?), and motoric aspects. The Third Piano Concerto comes from the 1920's, when old conventions such as those of the 19th-century Romantic concerto were being thrown off. Despite eccentricities people appreciate his tremendous melodic gift (lyrical) as in the toy-march-like 2nd theme of movement 1, the melody of the theme and variations in movement 2, and the soaring middle theme of the finale. And most of the fast music is motoric or in perpetual motion. For the pianist it is difficult but gratefully written for the instrument, unlike the Second which is brutal for the performer although I heard Yefim Bronfman play it with total mastery (he would!). I like Argerich best in the 3rd, though.


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## Bill Cooke

I found this piece to be pure magic when I first heard it as a teen. I believe I first heard it in that silly movie, The Competition, where Amy Irving chooses it at the last moment in a pianist competition and totally blows away rival/love interest Richard Dreyfuss because - well, because it's such an incredible piece. The propulsive energy of it was infectious. Obviously it's a piece that is going to appeal to those who have a liking of Stravinsky, especially Stravinsky in Petrushka mode. My current favorite performance is Janis with Kondrashin.


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## hpowders

Bill Cooke said:


> I found this piece to be pure magic when I first heard it as a teen. I believe I first heard it in that silly movie, The Competition, where Amy Irving chooses it at the last moment in a pianist competition and totally blows away rival/love interest Richard Dreyfuss because - well, because it's such an incredible piece. The propulsive energy of it was infectious. Obviously it's a piece that is going to appeal to those who have a liking of Stravinsky, especially Stravinsky in Petrushka mode. My current favorite performance is Janis with Kondrashin.


Me too! I bought the Van Cliburn performance as a teenager, and I never heard this music before.

I never heard anything so sparkling!! Yes. Pure magic. I agree!

To this day, I have never heard a better performance than Van Cliburn/Chicago Symphony/Walter Hendl.


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## Pugg

KenOC said:


> Back in the day, the "standard" Prokofiev's 3rd Piano Concerto was Gary Graffman's, with Szell. This was before he lost the use of his right hand. There are other more recent ones, some very fine, but Graffman's is still good.


That would be my second choice, just behind Van Cliburn .


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## Pugg

KenOC said:


> Back in the day, the "standard" Prokofiev's 3rd Piano Concerto was Gary Graffman's, with Szell. This was before he lost the use of his right hand. There are other more recent ones, some very fine, but Graffman's is still good.


That would be my second choice, just behind Van Cliburn .


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## Bill Cooke

With all the praise given to Van Cliburn, I bought a copy and gave it a spin last night. Absolutely amazing. Best performance of this piece I have ever heard.


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## JCLEUNG

Prokofiev's 3rd concerto is probably one of my most favorite piano concertos. I play it and it is beautifully written for the pianist full of the virtuosity that you want in a piano concerto. It's a brilliant neo-classical work -- prokofiev's harmonic language is expressed with exhuberance in a classical structural facade. I do love Argerich's recording. Some pianists (but not argerich) fake a particularly difficult chromatic chord passage in the 3rd movment but it's very possible to execute and not so bad after all.


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## jim prideaux

Argerich, Dutoit and the OSM.....listened to this recording for the first time this week and it is wonderful-do not understand any reservations about this concerto....with Prokofiev it is symphonies apart from 1 5 and 7 where I do not 'get it'.


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## jegreenwood

Bill Cooke said:


> I found this piece to be pure magic when I first heard it as a teen. I believe I first heard it in that silly movie, The Competition, where Amy Irving chooses it at the last moment in a pianist competition and totally blows away rival/love interest Richard Dreyfuss because - well, because it's such an incredible piece. The propulsive energy of it was infectious. Obviously it's a piece that is going to appeal to those who have a liking of Stravinsky, especially Stravinsky in Petrushka mode. My current favorite performance is Janis with Kondrashin.


That's where I discovered it as well.

(Although the concerto that Dreyfus plays ain't bad - Beethoven's Emperor.)


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## 20centrfuge

juliante said:


> Ranked highly by TC voters, to me it just seems silly, almost clownishly so. Why is it rated so highly? I managed three full listens and I really can't see what it is going to offer me.


Although I am slowly learning to like it, I tend to agree, and wouldn't even put it in Prokofiev's top 20. In my mind, it is a minor work.


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## DavidA

JCLEUNG said:


> Prokofiev's 3rd concerto is probably one of my most favorite piano concertos. *I play it *and it is beautifully written for the pianist full of the virtuosity that you want in a piano concerto. It's a brilliant neo-classical work -- prokofiev's harmonic language is expressed with exhuberance in a classical structural facade. I do love Argerich's recording. Some pianists (but not argerich) fake a particularly difficult chromatic chord passage in the 3rd movment but it's very possible to execute and not so bad after all.


You are certainly a better pianist than me then! :tiphat:


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## hpowders

The Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 is so sparkling and extroverted.

That opening for clarinet, joined a few bars later by a second clarinet is neo-Romanticism at its best-so hauntingly beautiful.

The Prokofiev Third Piano Concerto was one of my major discoveries about 10 years into my classical music exploration.

I bought the Van Cliburn/Chicago Symphony/Walter Hendl performance of it, never having heard the work, I fell in love with the composition, and to this day, have never found a better performance of it. Cliburn plays up the Romantic flavor of the work; just terrific!!


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## DavidA

I love this work too. Learned it though the recording Byron Janis made with Kondrashin in Russia - fantastic performance.

Other great performances I have are by Van Cliburn, Graffmann, Argerich.


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## KenOC

I first heard this concerto with Gary Graffman. Mostly listen to Marta Argerich these days. They're all good because the pianists all seem to enjoy playing it -- difficult though it is!


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## Isiah Thanu

One of the best performances I've heard is by Denis Matsuev on YouTube


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