# Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe



## Mirror Image

Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe








Many consider Daphnis et Chloé, a symphonie choréographique in three scenes to be Maurice Ravel's greatest work. The label may not really be a fair one; there were so many different Maurice Ravels throughout his life, each with a different set of musical goals, each exploring different musical worlds, that it is not right to assign the label of life masterpiece to the top work of any one of those periods, over the top works of all the others, just because it happens to be longer, more ambitious, and easier to access. But Daphnis et Chloé is certainly one of the most colorfully, intricately, and in a very immediate, almost physical sense, beautifully scored works ever written; if one were to assign pre-eminent status to any of Ravel's works solely on the basis of orchestration, this ballet would, without a doubt, be the one selected for the honor. There may be no more skillfully orchestrated work in all the twentieth century repertoire (Stravinsky's work included) and whole shelves of orchestration textbooks could be eliminated without loss by simply replacing them with an astute examination of this score.

Daphnis t Chloé was composed between 1909 and 1912, after a commission by Diaghilev and the Ballets Russes, and is a setting of a scenario adapted by Mikhail Fokine from the Greek work of the same name by Longus. It was premiered on June 8, 1912. The performance was not well prepared, and few people took note of Ravel's piece. Two orchestral suites derived from the score, however, did make a splash when Ravel brought them out just a short time after (especially the Suite No. 2, which is probably still Ravel's most often-played work).

Ravel was always far more interested in reproducing traditional musical forms and structures than he was in achieving the kind of sonic soundscapes that get rather callously lumped together as impressionist music; Daphnis et Chloé is, section-by-section, built along firmly classical lines (Ravel was extremely proud of the fact). Even the famous sunrise music at the opening of the third scene, with its scintillating thirty-second notes strewn about the orchestra and bright chirrups from the flute and piccolo flute and ecstatic, rising melody, has nothing in it that might be called progressive or even especially innovative in a technical sense, though certainly nothing written before it sounds even remotely like it. This was the essence of Ravel's genius: the ability to take the old and make it somehow sound completely new and different. Whether Daphnis et Chloé is Ravel's greatest achievement may be an irrelevant question: from the very first call of the backstage choir, distant and brought forth from an ancient world of shepherds and nymphs, to the rhythmic revelry of the final dance, it is proof on paper of Ravel's astounding capacity to fuse diverse elements into an astonishing new whole.

(Article taken from All Music Guide)

What do all of you think of this incredible piece of music? What is your favorite part?

My favorite part is "Part 3: Lever du jour - scene." This is such an amazing moment for me. All of those beautiful textures, that long beautiful melody line, and then the choral parts. It's just an amazing 6 minutes, but the whole ballet is a masterpiece in my opinion.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> What do all of you think of this incredible piece of music? What is your favorite part?


I didn't really think much of Ravel until I got to know the full version (with chorus) of _Daphnis et Chloe_. Even though I'd heard _Suite No. 2_, I never thought that hearing the full version would make such a difference. Recently, the Cd shop I go to was selling discontinued stock & among them was an old recording, so I bought it. I was amazed with how dramatic, lyrical and impressionistic the music sounded when played by a large orchestra & chorus.

Parts of the work sound familiar, like music to an old film, but we have to remember that recorded film scores did not appear until much later than 1912. So it's groundbreaking, even though today parts sound somewhat cliched (it's probably been copied alot)...

I think the whole work is a masterpiece, but I especially like the last 15 minutes or so which starts with the depiction of sunrise and the bird calls, etc. I also like the earlier part in which the choir is very vocal, I think when Chloe is kidnapped.

This, and Debussy's _La Mer_ & _Nocturnes_ (which also includes a wordless chorus in _Sirenes_), have to be some of the best orchestral music of what's called impressionist, for want of a better label.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I didn't really think much of Ravel until I got to know the full version (with chorus) of _Daphnis et Chloe_. Even though I'd heard _Suite No. 2_, I never thought that hearing the full version would make such a difference. Recently, the Cd shop I go to was selling discontinued stock & among them was an old recording, so I bought it. I was amazed with how dramatic, lyrical and impressionistic the music sounded when played by a large orchestra & chorus.
> 
> Parts of the work sound familiar, like music to an old film, but we have to remember that recorded film scores did not appear until much later than 1912. So it's groundbreaking, even though today parts sound somewhat cliched (it's probably been copied alot)...
> 
> I think the whole work is a masterpiece, but I especially like the last 15 minutes or so which starts with the depiction of sunrise and the bird calls, etc. I also like the earlier part in which the choir is very vocal, I think when Chloe is kidnapped.
> 
> This, and Debussy's _La Mer_ & _Nocturnes_ (which also includes a wordless chorus in _Sirenes_), have to be some of the best orchestral music of what's called impressionist, for want of a better label.


Oh absolutely. The sunrise scene, which is my favorite part, is the most amazing 6 minutes I've heard in music period. I mean it's everything that I love about Ravel and that whole impressionistic sound condensed to 6 minutes.

I'm very lucky in the regard that when I think of Daphnis et Chloe I only think of the full version, which is the way it's supposed to be heard anyway. You get a better feel of the piece when you here it in it's complete form.

One thing to take notice, besides the beautiful melodies and harmonies, is the orchestration. Ravel, as we all know, was one of the best orchestrators in classical music. His craftsmanship has not been heard since.

Perhaps Impressionism is looked upon today as something that sounds conventional or fluff, but during the time of Debussy, Ravel, Delius, etc., music took a very radical and unexpected turn into new, unchartered waters.

Ravel is one of the most important composers in my life. He's influenced me more than any other composer.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I didn't really think much of Ravel until I got to know the full version (with chorus) of _Daphnis et Chloe_. Even though I'd heard _Suite No. 2_, I never thought that hearing the full version would make such a difference. Recently, the Cd shop I go to was selling discontinued stock & among them was an old recording, so I bought it. I was amazed with how dramatic, lyrical and impressionistic the music sounded when played by a large orchestra & chorus.


When I first heard Ravel, which was actually many years ago I was inthralled with him. I heard "Pavane.." and that was really it for me. I had found the composer I most connect with. Don't get me wrong I love many other composers, but Ravel was really what made me a classical fan.


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## Bach

Possibly the jazz influence? You must like Gershwin too..


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> Possibly the jazz influence? You must like Gershwin too..


Absolutely Bach. That's why I love Ravel so much. Yes, Gershwin is great though believe it or not I need to get more of his work, though it is small in scope, he what...died in his early 30s? Imagine what he could have accomplished if had lived to be 70 or 80? Man, that would be amazing.


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## World Violist

I'm probably one of the small population who has never heard the suites, but only the whole thing. It is a masterpiece, and I doubt I will ever want to hear the suites because with the whole thing you have not only that music but so much more... and that choir!


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I'm probably one of the small population who has never heard the suites, but only the whole thing. It is a masterpiece, and I doubt I will ever want to hear the suites because with the whole thing you have not only that music but so much more... and that choir!


That's right! I've never actually heard the suites either. I'm so accustomed to hearing the complete ballet with the choir. I will say that I don't think I want to hear the suites, not that there's anything wrong with them of course, but I like having the big picture, instead of a smaller or fragmented piece of the picture. You only get a taste of it when they're in the form of a suite.


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## Mirror Image

The jazz aspect is one of the reasons I love Debussy too. His music sounds very free, but it isn't. It's all written out, which I find just amazing, because his compositions especially his pieces for piano and orchestra sound so natural and flowing. They have improvisatory feel to them.

The same could be said about Rubbra, which World Violist I know you love his work. Rubbra wrote these very improvisatory-like pieces where you think all of this beautiful sound is forming just out of the thin air. I think this could definitely be said about Rubbra's "Sinfonia Concertante in C." What a piece of music this is! Do you own this piece WV with Richard Hickox and the BBC Orchestra of Wales? It's a companion CD to the symphony box set we own:


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## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> The jazz aspect is one of the reasons I love Debussy too. His music sounds very free, but it isn't. It's all written out, which I find just amazing, because his compositions especially his pieces for piano and orchestra sound so natural and flowing. They have improvisatory feel to them.
> 
> The same could be said about Rubbra, which World Violist I know you love his work. Rubbra wrote these very improvisatory-like pieces where you think all of this beautiful sound is forming just out of the thin air. I think this could definitely be said about Rubbra's "Sinfonia Concertante in C." What a piece of music this is! Do you own this piece WV with Richard Hickox and the BBC Orchestra of Wales? It's a companion CD to the symphony box set we own:


I have been trying to round out my "meat and potatoes" classical CD's lately--can you believe I've never owned a single recording of the Rite of Spring?--so I shall use this pathetic excuse to back up my confession that I have no more Rubbra than the symphonies box. I shall certainly look for this CD, however.


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I have been trying to round out my "meat and potatoes" classical CD's lately--can you believe I've never owned a single recording of the Rite of Spring?--so I shall use this pathetic excuse to back up my confession that I have no more Rubbra than the symphonies box. I shall certainly look for this CD, however.


Yeah, "The Rite of Spring" is a marvelous piece of music. One of my personal favorites, but then I'm a huge Stravinsky fan anyway. There's not telling how many versions I own now. I'm not about to count them! 

Do you know which recording of "The Rite of Spring" you are thinking about getting? If you need any recommendations I will be glad to help you in anyway I can.

About that Rubbra CD, I would definitely check it out. I wish you lived in the States, then I could just send you a copy of it. It's definitely right up your alley.


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## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> Yeah, "The Rite of Spring" is a marvelous piece of music. One of my personal favorites, but then I'm a huge Stravinsky fan anyway. There's not telling how many versions I own now. I'm not about to count them!
> 
> Do you know which recording of "The Rite of Spring" you are thinking about getting? If you need any recommendations I will be glad to help you in anyway I can.
> 
> About that Rubbra CD, I would definitely check it out. I wish you lived in the States, then I could just send you a copy of it. It's definitely right up your alley.


I do live in the states actually. Haha.

My dad has a recording of the Rite with Zubin Mehta conducting the NYPO; I'm looking at the Ozawa/Chicago recording right now; it seems most consistently to pop up as peoples' favorites in the thread devoted to the topic. I love this piece also. Amazing.

What recordings are there of Ravel's complete Daphnis et Chloe? There's the really excellent one from the EMI box (the only one anybody needs? Possible.). Others?


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I do live in the states actually. Haha.
> 
> My dad has a recording of the Rite with Zubin Mehta conducting the NYPO; I'm looking at the Ozawa/Chicago recording right now; it seems most consistently to pop up as peoples' favorites in the thread devoted to the topic. I love this piece also. Amazing.
> 
> What recordings are there of Ravel's complete Daphnis et Chloe? There's the really excellent one from the EMI box (the only one anybody needs? Possible.). Others?


Yes, the Ozawa/BSO recording is excellent of "Rite of Spring," but I also loved the Boulez/Cleveland Orch. reading too. I also liked the Yoel Levi/ASO reading too.

There are several great recordings of the complete "Daphnis et Chloe." Any of these will do:

Charles Dutoit/Montreal Symphony Orch.
Pierre Boulez/Berlin Philharmonic
Jean Martinon/Orchestre de Paris
Yan Pascal Tortelier/Ulster Orchestra

You cannot go wrong with any of these. They are all outstanding. I'm digging the Dutoit right now. It's just in a word: amazing.


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## Isola

I didn't really love this piece until I saw Charles Dutoit conducting St Cecilia Orchestra in Rome. Yes, "amazing' is _the_ word.


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## Mirror Image

Isola said:


> I didn't really love this piece until I saw Charles Dutoit conducting St Cecilia Orchestra in Rome. Yes, "amazing' is _the_ word.


Charles Dutoit, without a doubt in my mind, is one of the finest conductors of Ravel to ever walk this Earth. I've heard many versions of "Daphnis et Chloe" and his is one of my favorites. He has such an assured way with this music.


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## Sid James

I just purchased the CBSO/Rattle recording, on EMI, of _Daphnis & Chloe_. I got to know the work with USSR RSO/Rozsdesventsky. I think that the latter is more passionate & epic. There have been mixed reviews of Rattle, but I think he does a good job, although perhaps he concentrates on the details too much. However, the recording quality of Rattle is better than the other, as it is fully digital. So there are pluses & minuses, as with everything...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I just purchased the CBSO/Rattle recording, on EMI, of _Daphnis & Chloe_. I got to know the work with USSR RSO/Rozsdesventsky. I think that the latter is more passionate & epic. There have been mixed reviews of Rattle, but I think he does a good job, although perhaps he concentrates on the details too much. However, the recording quality of Rattle is better than the other, as it is fully digital. So there are pluses & minuses, as with everything...


I think Rattle did an admirable job, but his reading isn't my favorite. There seems to be quite a few people who dislike Rattle for some reason and I'm not sure why. I think people just aren't sure how to take him. He is very much a conductor who is concerned about the details, but in some composers this works very good and some it doesn't. His best, in my opinion, will always be his Mahler.

Pierre Boulez, Yan Pascal Tortelier, Jean Martinon, and Charles Dutoit turn in the best performances of "Daphnis et Chloe" in my honest opinion.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I just purchased the CBSO/Rattle recording, on EMI, of _Daphnis & Chloe_. I got to know the work with USSR RSO/Rozsdesventsky. I think that the latter is more passionate & epic. There have been mixed reviews of Rattle, but I think he does a good job, although perhaps he concentrates on the details too much. However, the recording quality of Rattle is better than the other, as it is fully digital. So there are pluses & minuses, as with everything...


I was listening to Rattle's a week or so ago and noticed several mistakes. The biggest mistake I noticed was in the "Sunrise" scene where the flute solo is. The flute plays longer than it should and this version is the only one I've heard where these's this mistake. Rattle is a decent Ravel conductor, but he doesn't hold a candle to Martinon, Dutoit, Boulez, and Tortelier I'm afraid.


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## kg4fxg

*Daphnis et Chloé*

It is such an emotional piece for me. I just can't put it into words. Maybe because I like the four books that Longus wrote?

Love, sex, adoption, plot, it is so hard to describe in just a few words. Just knowing about the long journey toward marriage of the two and events that happened to them is an amazing story.

Maybe I am putting to much of the story into the piece? But I can't help but thinking of the events in the four books when listening to this piece which is one of my favorites.

I am just one of those who adore a love romance like Daphnis et Chloé. Maybe I am just an old fashioned hopeless romantic?

Thanks for posting MI, I would not claim I had the best recording but may look into others after reading your posts.


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## Mirror Image

kg4fxg said:


> It is such an emotional piece for me. I just can't put it into words. Maybe because I like the four books that Longus wrote?
> 
> Love, sex, adoption, plot, it is so hard to describe in just a few words. Just knowing about the long journey toward marriage of the two and events that happened to them is an amazing story.
> 
> Maybe I am putting to much of the story into the piece? But I can't help but thinking of the events in the four books when listening to this piece which is one of my favorites.
> 
> I am just one of those who adore a love romance like Daphnis et Chloé. Maybe I am just an old fashioned hopeless romantic?
> 
> Thanks for posting MI, I would not claim I had the best recording but may look into others after reading your posts.


Absolutely, it's so fantasic. It's probably one of the best ballets I've ever heard and I've heard all the major ones and many obscure ones.

I hope you checkout Charles Dutoit/Montreal Symphony Orchestra's reading on Decca. This is probably the best I've heard and the most satisfying --- emotionally and intellectually that I've heard. I own 22 versions of the full ballet of "Daphnis et Chloe" and Dutoit's is the one I return to the most.


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## bassClef

Mirror Image said:


> Absolutely, it's so fantasic. It's probably one of the best ballets I've ever heard and I've heard all the major ones and many obscure ones.
> 
> I hope you checkout Charles Dutoit/Montreal Symphony Orchestra's reading on Decca. This is probably the best I've heard and the most satisfying --- emotionally and intellectually that I've heard. I own 22 versions of the full ballet of "Daphnis et Chloe" and Dutoit's is the one I return to the most.


I may order this one myself. You mean this one?









Is that the same performance as on this one, do you know?


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## Mirror Image

bassClef said:


> I may order this one myself. You mean this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the same performance as on this one, do you know?


Yes, they are the same performance but I would get the Decca Legends recording as it has been remastered.  If you really love Ravel, then I would get this box set, which you can get around $15-$20:










Since you live in the Czech Republic (or is it Czechoslovakia?), I'm not sure if this box set is available for purchase or not, but if it isn't, then I would just go for the Decca Legends recording.


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## bassClef

I'm not a HUGE fan of Ravel unless I'm in the right mood, but when I am I want the best available  Thing is the two CDs I posted I can get for under £5 via Amazon market place but the box set would be almost 3 times that! Hmm....


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## Mirror Image

bassClef said:


> I'm not a HUGE fan of Ravel unless I'm in the right mood, but when I am I want the best available  Thing is the two CDs I posted I can get for under £5 via Amazon market place but the box set would be almost 3 times that! Hmm....


Well, then you must go with the Decca Legends recording with Dutoit. This is the version to buy because of the remastering.


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## haydnguy

I have that one but have yet to listen to it. (The Decca legends)  It won't be today because it's "football Saturday" in my house today but I'll give it a listen tomorrow. By the way, Mirror Image, would you say that I need that Ravel boxed set if I already have the one below? Thanks.


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## Mirror Image

haydnguy said:


> I have that one but have yet to listen to it. (The Decca legends)  It won't be today because it's "football Saturday" in my house today but I'll give it a listen tomorrow. By the way, Mirror Image, would you say that I need that Ravel boxed set if I already have the one below? Thanks.


Absolutely, you should get the Dutoit set. Martinon is a very different conductor than Dutoit. Martinon brings out the more tangy side of Ravel, but adds some sweetness, whereas Dutoit's approach is more like painting. A broad stroke here, a light strike there, his approach is very colorful and he keeps a very taut leash on the orchestra. He's completely in his element with Ravel. Martinon is much more aggressive, but Dutoit is much more tender. Both are indespensable Ravel conductors. I hope that helps.


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## haydnguy

Yes, it does. Dutoit does sound interesting indeed. I will get it.


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## Mirror Image

haydnguy said:


> Yes, it does. Dutoit does sound interesting indeed. I will get it.


Excellent choice!


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## TresPicos

Andre said:


> I didn't really think much of Ravel until I got to know the full version (with chorus) of _Daphnis et Chloe_. Even though I'd heard _Suite No. 2_, I never thought that hearing the full version would make such a difference. Recently, the Cd shop I go to was selling discontinued stock & among them was an old recording, so I bought it. I was amazed with how dramatic, lyrical and impressionistic the music sounded when played by a large orchestra & chorus.


I have listened to the D&C suites and didn't like them very much, but I guess I should give the full version a try, then.


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## Mirror Image

TresPicos said:


> I have listened to the D&C suites and didn't like them very much, but I guess I should give the full version a try, then.


If don't like "Daphnis et Chloe," then in my humble opinion you're not much of a Ravel fan. It took him 3 years to write and I think the time he spent on it paid off big time. Listening to the suites is like eating an appetizer. It's good, but it's not the full meal. You want the full meal when you listen to "Daphnis et Chloe."


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## audiophilia

LSO/Monteux/Decca
BSO/Munch/Chesky
MSO/Dutoit/London


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## emiellucifuge

Whats the opinion on Abbado with the LSO?

Thats the one i have.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

I want the new Levine recording with the BSO. I heard a sample of it and I will tell you that it just sounds so amazing.

Here is James Levine talking about it and giving you a sample of the recording


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## Gill

I have a recording of the 2nd suite (recently re-issued on Decca EloQuence Australia with a really fine "La Valse") conducted by Zubin Metha/LAPO with chorus. He takes a couple of liberties with tempo that I think makes the performance perfect. Sadly, he never recorded the complete ballet. It would have been interesting to hear what he would have done with the rest of the ballet.


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## QuietGuy

World Violist said:


> I do live in the states actually. Haha.
> 
> What recordings are there of Ravel's complete Daphnis et Chloe? There's the really excellent one from the EMI box (the only one anybody needs? Possible.). Others?


The one I like is Dutoit/Montreal, available on youtube.

I agree with everything everyone has said about Daphnis et Chloe. I've said this in more than one post: The "Lever du jour" music is what my idea of heaven must sound like. The stage direction in the score for that section is "It is dawn. There is no sound, except for the rivulets of morning dew trickling off the rocks. Little by little, the day dawns." All that detail for for 'rivulets of morning dew'! As Mirror Image said previously in this thread, "I mean it's everything that I love about Ravel and that whole impressionistic sound condensed to 6 minutes." Yes!

One other post posed the question: if your favorite composer could come back and write one more work, what would it be? My answer was another ballet on the same scale (length, orchestral forces, etc.) as Daphnis et Chloe.

Stravinsky said of Ravel: "... from whose pen we have some of the most beautiful pages in all of 20th century music..." and no doubt he was speaking about Daphnis et Chloe.


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## PeterPowerPop

QuietGuy said:


> The one I like is Dutoit/Montreal, available on youtube.


Yep:








QuietGuy said:


> I agree with everything everyone has said about Daphnis et Chloe. I've said this in more than one post: The "Lever du jour" music is what my idea of heaven must sound like. The stage direction in the score for that section is "It is dawn. There is no sound, except for the rivulets of morning dew trickling off the rocks. Little by little, the day dawns." All that detail for for 'rivulets of morning dew'! As Mirror Image said previously in this thread, "I mean it's everything that I love about Ravel and that whole impressionistic sound condensed to 6 minutes." Yes!
> 
> One other post posed the question: if your favorite composer could come back and write one more work, what would it be? My answer was another ballet on the same scale (length, orchestral forces, etc.) as Daphnis et Chloe.
> 
> Stravinsky said of Ravel: "... from whose pen we have some of the most beautiful pages in all of 20th century music..." and no doubt he was speaking about Daphnis et Chloe.


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