# Opera remains the preserve of the rich



## Guest (Mar 13, 2015)

Here's a link to an edited article by Will Self based on a lecture given at the Royal Opera House:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/13/will-self-opera-preserve-rich


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2015)

Here's a little n extract from the Will Self article mentioned above:

_Having your cake and eating it is what the rich do - because the rich always have more cake anyway, and a valet or lady's maid to brush away the crumbs. One thing, surely, is undeniable in 2015 - and this is despite Brechtian innovations; despite outreach programmes and community endeavours; despite live cinema transmissions and webcasts; despite education, education, education and many attempts at popularisation; despite charitable status; despite lottery funding (a tax on stupidity to pay for culture) - opera remains resolutely, one might even say defiantly, the preserve of the rich, if by "the rich" is understood "you", "me", AKA "the bourgeoisie"._


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

TalkingHead said:


> Here's a little n extract from the Will Self article mentioned above:
> 
> _Having your cake and eating it is what the rich do - because the rich always have more cake anyway, and a valet or lady's maid to brush away the crumbs. One thing, surely, is undeniable in 2015 - and this is despite Brechtian innovations; despite outreach programmes and community endeavours; despite live cinema transmissions and webcasts; *despite education, education, education and many attempts at popularisation;* despite charitable status; despite lottery funding (a tax on stupidity to pay for culture) - opera remains resolutely, one might even say defiantly, the preserve of the rich, if by "the rich" is understood "you", "me", AKA "the bourgeoisie"._


You can lead a horse into the water, but you cannot make him drink.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

of course it is. psssht, those silly proletariats couldn't understand it if they tried


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

It doesn't matter how many millions are poured into the popularization of CM/Opera—our society has no time or desire for immersive, significant art. Our society loves and craves the disposable trash being peddled by the majority of the media; the giant corporations. Consumerism is the largest, most influential religion in our modern world and it's gonna get worse. Profundity in art? It's a relic of the past. The minds of the masses have been irreparably damaged by the disease of consumerism.


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

It has always been that way, but I can see potential for that to change. Streaming services are making it easier for people with a casual interest in opera to explore without a huge financial investment. I have always enjoyed opera, but with Spotify there are so many choices. I can listen to recordings I couldn't find and/or afford. No, I'm not saying that opera is going to be huge, but guarantee that we'll see fans popping up in unexpected places in the next decade. There are so many people who love to explore music, they just need a way to navigate a path. Subscription services are the future of that.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

anmhe said:


> It has always been that way, but I can see potential for that to change. Streaming services are making it easier for people with a casual interest in opera to explore without a huge financial investment. I have always enjoyed opera, but with Spotify there are so many choices. I can listen to recordings I couldn't find and/or afford. No, I'm not saying that opera is going to be huge, but guarantee that we'll see fans popping up in unexpected places in the next decade. There are so many people who love to explore music, they just need a way to navigate a path. Subscription services are the future of that.


I agree, anmhe. Live opera has become something very few of us can access, but I do hope, and believe that there is a chance for this to change. But slowly, slowly. Spotify has been a blessing for me, an 18 year old, who doesn't have much of an opportunity to attend the opera regularly (the Sydney Opera House has more expensive student tix than those OS, I believe). Likewise, the Met Opera Player, though pricey, has also been a way for me to immerse myself in the wonderful way of opera.

I'm invigorated by your positivity!


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

> despite charitable status; despite lottery funding (a tax on stupidity to pay for culture) - opera remains resolutely, one might even say defiantly, the preserve of the rich


Hog wash!! C and W concerts are often more expensive than good provincial opera and there is some very good opera theater being done in the "outback". Another self impressed "egghead"!!

When it gets to the point that academicians have to tell us what we can't perceive from our seats, I lose interest. If I have to be told what it means, then the author missed the mark.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I've said this before so apologies to those who've heard this already...

I'm a huge F1 fan and used to go to four or five races each year, mostly in Europe. The prices got higher and higher and when the price got to £600 for a grandstand seat in 2010, I decided to give up going. Opera is cheap in comparison.

Photos below show the predictable results. Fans stop going.

Race day Spanish GP 2009



Race day Italian GP 2010


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Wow, did he get paid by the word for that? Some big words too. Thanks for the Wiki links for the difficult words Will!


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

A statement of the obvious. Anybody who is moved by Opera is rich - they enjoy the pleasures of the drama and the music; they enjoy a rich intellectual life.

It is not that expensive to go to an opera. Any reasonably sized city will have a regular supply. Even here in Norfolk we get a range of travelling companies; we've just seen La Traviatta in Lowestoft (about $40 -good seats), at the end of the month there's Puccini’s La Boheme and Donizetti’s Il furioso all'isola di San Domingo with seats from £6,50 ($10). The same group are repeating that at Snape in April and in June Snape is putting on the premiere of Harrison Birtwistle’s chamber opera The Cure in a double bill with his earlier piece The Corridor. This is the start of the Snape Music Festival. We'll probably have some Baroque opera later in the year. At the end of May we're going to a semi-staged version of Purcell's Dido and Aeneas organised by our local Baroque group with a local choir. I am sure the major cities in Britain will have much fuller programmes.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Taggart said:


> It is not that expensive to go to an opera.


Exactly.
In Paris, it's expensive if you want to sit in in the front....but it can be cheaper than going to the cinema.
I see a LOT of opera during the week from the galleries. You can hardly go wrong at 5€. Why sit at home and watch tv?

Compare that to Taylor Swift tickets which range from 50-80€. Who's rich, now?


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

TalkingHead said:


> Here's a little n extract from the Will Self article mentioned above:
> 
> _Having your cake and eating it is what the rich do - because the rich always have more cake anyway, and a valet or lady's maid to brush away the crumbs. One thing, surely, is undeniable in 2015 - and this is despite Brechtian innovations; despite outreach programmes and community endeavours; despite live cinema transmissions and webcasts; despite education, education, education and many attempts at popularisation; despite charitable status; despite lottery funding (a tax on stupidity to pay for culture) - opera remains resolutely, one might even say defiantly, the preserve of the rich, if by "the rich" is understood "you", "me", AKA "the bourgeoisie"._


I believe he is talking about himself and his audience. But the same could be said for public art galleries, museums or theatres. Most people do not regularly visit art galleries, museums or theatres. These institutions are patronised by white middle class people and wealthy tourists. Sure they will drag in school parties to fulfill their diversity commitments, but the same goes for Opera.

The arts tend to appeal to a certain type of person. Sad but true.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> Exactly.
> In Paris, it's expensive if you want to sit in in the front....but it can be cheaper than going to the cinema.
> I see a LOT of opera during the week from the galleries. You can hardly go wrong at 5€. Why sit at home and watch tv?
> 
> Compare that to Taylor Swift tickets which range from 50-80€. Who's rich, now?


*5€??? *I am very envious...


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

For high profile events, there are probably rich folk who don't even really like opera but go just for the status. "I once saw Pavarotti at La Scala," that sort of thing. The same could be said for other big cultural and sporting events.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I don't think major racing events or Taylor Swift concerts are a reasonable comparison. Those are _also_ the domain of the rich (and their children). Plus there are (also) cheaper ways to see car racing and far cheaper pop concerts to attend as well.

You do sometimes get people who will save up money to attend a Taylor Swift concert (or whatever) but you also get people who save up money to go to the opera or to hear the symphony.

But I want to attend most of the ten SFO productions in a given year. And quite a few San Francisco Symphony concerts. There are a number of other local classical performing groups that I'd like to see. Plus wouldn't it be great to go to Seattle or Los Angeles (and so on) to see other pieces?

It's expensive to have a subscription to the opera. It's also expensive to have season tickets to the local football or baseball team (which also offer cheap seats where you can't see anything). All of these things are the domain of the rich, those who are able to sacrifice enough to save up, and those who attend an event on rare occasions as a treat.

I agree, 5€ is outrageously good, and I am thrilled you are able to take advantage. The cheapest tickets to the San Francisco Opera are $25 though the War Memorial Opera House is twice as big as the Palais Garnier.

I could get standing room tickets for the Met Opera in NYC for $27 but I still rarely did so because that meant leaving work early, paying extra for a rushed dinner, not getting anything done at home, and getting home even more tired. And it wasn't a choice between seeing an opera and seeing Taylor Swift for three times as much... it was a choice between seeing and opera and going home to do something far, far cheaper. Or, often, something actually productive.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Loge said:


> The arts tend to appeal to a certain type of person. Sad but true.


I think the _appeal_ of arts has little to nothing to do with race or class. White middle (and upper) class and wealthy tourists are the people who have _time_ and money to visit museums.

Being awestruck by a well-trained voice singing beautifully composed music is something that can appeal to anyone.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I think that if they did more contemporary productions of opera then it would not be the provenance of the wealthy.  Radical versions will democratic-ize the art form, that's for sure.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> I think that if they did more contemporary productions of opera then it would not be the provenance of the wealthy.  Radical versions will democratic-ize the art form, that's for sure.


You mean non contemporary operas with contemporary settings?
Like the majority of all opera productions.

Does this looks like a fun opera production?:









How can it be wrong to want to look into another world. Does anyone really want to see famous operas performed by singers in T-shirts and hoodies.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Sloe said:


> You mean non contemporary operas with contemporary settings?
> Like the majority of all opera productions.
> 
> Does this looks like a fun opera production?:
> ...


I must be different because I would like to see Tosca in blue jeans for example. Much more creative. Too easy to do period pieces honestly.

Also opera houses need to allow for food and meals to be served like the way they did that in the French courts. Seriously if I could pack a burger from The Copper Onion while watching Mozart's Abduction from the Seraglio then I would be glad. A less rarefied approach would work well here.

Also people are watching more of their operas on YouTube in the comfort of their own home. So perhaps opera isn't the domain of the wealthy just that the people who see it on YouTube aren't being counted.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Sloe said:


> You mean non contemporary operas with contemporary settings?
> Like the majority of all opera productions.
> 
> Does this looks like a fun opera production?:
> ...


I agree. Whilst I enjoy opera in contemporary settings to keep it fresh (the warhorses are played every 18mths here), the directors need to keep in mind that audiences want to see a spectacle. If the budget doesn't allow it, then the number of operas per season needs to be reconsidered.

No one wants the curtain to go up, revealing a single chair on an empty stage


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> Also opera houses need to allow for food and meals to be served like the way they did that in the French courts. Seriously if I could pack a burger from The Copper Onion while watching Mozart's Abduction from the Seraglio then I would be glad. A less rarefied approach would work well here.


I'm glad I can enjoy a visit to the opera house without having to see or hear or smell someone else eating.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Albert7 said:


> Also opera houses need to allow for food and meals to be served like the way they did that in the French courts. Seriously if I could pack a burger from The Copper Onion while watching Mozart's Abduction from the Seraglio then I would be glad. A less rarefied approach would work well here.


The rest of the audience would not be glad to hear you chew.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Kivimees said:


> I'm glad I can enjoy a visit to the opera house without having to see or hear or smell someone else eating.


Rodolfo just got a little bit hungrier than before.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Its expensive to put on, so its expensive to go to.
Pick and choose what u really want to see.

And there's always DVDs


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

sospiro said:


> I've said this before so apologies to those who've heard this already...
> 
> I'm a huge F1 fan and used to go to four or five races each year, mostly in Europe. The prices got higher and higher and when the price got to £600 for a grandstand seat in 2010, I decided to give up going. Opera is cheap in comparison.
> 
> ...


And suddenly I get your name on Photobucket ! Lovely stagedoor pics from ballo in maschera performance ! Not even the lead soprano gets to be kissed by the tenor and the baritone at the same time


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Couac Addict said:


> Exactly.
> In Paris, it's expensive if you want to sit in in the front....but it can be cheaper than going to the cinema.
> I see a LOT of opera during the week from the galleries. You can hardly go wrong at 5€. Why sit at home and watch tv?
> View attachment 66311


Vienna state opera has standing tickets for 4 euro.

The point is, if you *want* to, you can go and attend opera performances. Money is not an issue. The reason there are so many rich people at the opera is because they *can*.


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

If my local opera company offered tickets for less than $10, I'd go all the time. As it is, I can't find tickets for less than $80 most of the time (even though ads say the prices start at $25). The bigger sticking point for me is the quality. I've opted out of certain productions after I heard that many of the large choruses were prerecorded. I'll dish out a lot of money for a great show, but I will not spend money on pre-recorded choruses.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

What about opera in the park? Seriously fun plus you can picnic outside with your drinking buddies.

http://sfopera.com/season-tickets/opera-in-the-park.aspx

Again not in the domain of the rich. Plus some Heineken goes well with Wagner here.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Kivimees said:


> I'm glad I can enjoy a visit to the opera house without having to see or hear or smell someone else eating.


We should be so lucky on airplanes!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Dongiovanni said:


> And suddenly I get your name on Photobucket ! Lovely stagedoor pics from ballo in maschera performance ! Not even the lead soprano gets to be kissed by the tenor and the baritone at the same time


:lol:

It was the first time I'd seen Dima at the stage door, he usually leaves by another exit. It was my birthday and I asked Joseph for a photo and it was him who called Dima over. Luckily my friend was on hand to record the moment!!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> I must be different because I would like to see Tosca in blue jeans for example. Much more creative. Too easy to do period pieces honestly.
> 
> Also people are watching more of their operas on YouTube in the comfort of their own home. So perhaps opera isn't the domain of the wealthy just that the people who see it on YouTube aren't being counted.


They do the same kinds of the productions all the time. Composers life time, some period in the twentieth century and present over and over again. I don´t find that creative at all.
Concerning Tosca I want an opera were Napoleon is mentioned in the libretto to be set in the time of Napoleon and they dot This is another thing it doesn´t make sense to change the time of were the opera takes place it is impossible. They also don´t have death penalty in modern day Italy so there can´t be an execution in a contemporary setting of Tosca.

Yes people watch operas on youtube to get the opportunity to not see Regietheater.

I can´t see how Regietheater would attract more people I think it is more like if all opera productions are Regietheater people with not so much money will be more cautious with spending their money on opera tickets.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I don't want this to get into a redo of the modern productions and regietheater (which are quite different things, I'd say) conversations taking place in several other threads, but I will say that I think having a _variety_ of productions available is a good thing for opera's popularity. Different people like different things.

Personally one thing that kept me away from opera was thinking of it as some dead throwback that only happened with big wigs, bigger dresses, and cardboard flats. It wasn't until I realized opera* didn't have to be nostalgia pieces about old nobles done to exacting specifications that I got hooked. And, yes, eventually caught on that there are good (and boring) traditional productions just as there are good (and bad) modern productions.

Traditionalist productions will draw some people in. More radical productions will draw other people in. Understanding that _both_ are available and can be worthwhile will attract some people as well.

* Incidentally it was the same for Shakespeare; it took me quite a few years and seeing many of his plays before I could see the human drama of it because I was thrown off by the 17th century trappings.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> I don't want this to get into a redo of the modern productions and regietheater (which are quite different things, I'd say) conversations taking place in several other threads, but I will say that I think having a _variety_ of productions available is a good thing for opera's popularity. Different people like different things.
> 
> Personally one thing that kept me away from opera was thinking of it as some dead throwback that only happened with big wigs, bigger dresses, and cardboard flats. It wasn't until I realized opera* didn't have to be nostalgia pieces about old nobles done to exacting specifications that I got hooked. And, yes, eventually caught on that there are good (and boring) traditional productions just as there are good (and bad) modern productions.
> 
> ...


It does matter since it has to do with you get for the money you spend the less you have the more carefull you will be.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

anmhe said:


> If my local opera company offered tickets for less than $10, I'd go all the time. As it is, I can't find tickets for less than $80 most of the time (even though ads say the prices start at $25). The bigger sticking point for me is the quality. I've opted out of certain productions after I heard that many of the large choruses were prerecorded. I'll dish out a lot of money for a great show, but I will not spend money on pre-recorded choruses.


_Pre-recorded choruses_? That's shocking. I've never heard of that, though I have heard of amplification (in the Opera Bastille) and miming (the WNO). Next thing you know, the 'orchestra' will consist of one guy with a synthesizer.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> _Pre-recorded choruses_? That's shocking. I've never heard of that, though I have heard of amplification (in the Opera Bastille) and miming (the WNO). Next thing you know, the 'orchestra' will consist of one guy with a synthesizer.


Worse trend would be if the opera singers started to lip synch to old pre-recorded voices... then we will know that opera has turned into Milli Vanilli.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> Worse trend would be if the opera singers started to lip synch to old pre-recorded voices... then we will know that opera has turned into Milli Vanilli.


In the article I read, the vocally indisposed leading lady mimed the performance while her understudy sang from the wings. Bizarre arrangement.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/14/william-tell-review-welsh-national-opera-rossini


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> In the article I read, the vocally indisposed leading lady mimed the performance while her understudy sang from the wings. Bizarre arrangement.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/14/william-tell-review-welsh-national-opera-rossini


Also happened in Salzburg in 2012, Jonas Kaufmann sung while Piotr Beczala acted on-stage.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> In the article I read, the vocally indisposed leading lady mimed the performance while her understudy sang from the wings. Bizarre arrangement.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/14/william-tell-review-welsh-national-opera-rossini


Something close to that is when they have a double for the singer who do the acting while the singer stands beside singing. That I must say is really strange.


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

Figleaf said:


> _Pre-recorded choruses_? That's shocking. I've never heard of that, though I have heard of amplification (in the Opera Bastille) and miming (the WNO). Next thing you know, the 'orchestra' will consist of one guy with a synthesizer.


Funny you should mention the WNO. That's exactly the company I was speaking of!


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

Albert7 said:


> Worse trend would be if the opera singers started to lip synch to old pre-recorded voices... then we will know that opera has turned into Milli Vanilli.


I'll only accept miming in Operas if it is a motion picture production. THAT is totally acceptable.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> Also happened in Salzburg in 2012, Jonas Kaufmann sung while Piotr Beczala acted on-stage.


I wonder why they didn't put Kaufmann on stage and have him sing _and_ act the role? It's not like he's some anonymous understudy, or unpleasant to look at. I find miming bizarre in any case, and wonder that audiences accept it.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

anmhe said:


> I'll only accept miming in Operas if it is a motion picture production. THAT is totally acceptable.


Even so, I think it would probably look ersatz. I think the only films in which 'miming' was acceptable are the very early ones in which the technology wasn't advanced enough to record sound and picture at the same time, so the silent film had to be synchronized with a separately-recorded cylinder. Even so, I assume the singers were actually singing, just not the same performance as the one that would provide the 'soundtrack'.


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## WertherCharlotte (Mar 14, 2015)

They did not put him on stage because he was on vacation at his home nearby and just flew in an helicopter in his kakis & polo shirt & boat shoes, unshaved (as if): It was written that he was a different kind of "hipster" that those who were on stage lol Plus he probably was with the scores in hands. What I wonder is how the audience did not recognize his husky voice 

I second what monsieur (ou madame) Couac wrote. I managed to buy cheap tickets in Paris, (even at Bastille), ROH London, Vienna and the MET.
It is correct that opera is an entire night out and one must finish work / obligations pretty early. Saturday or Sunday matinees are sometimes an option though


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

WertherCharlotte said:


> They did not put him on stage because he was on vacation at his home nearby and just flew in an helicopter in his kakis & polo shirt & boat shoes, unshaved (as if): It was written that he was a different kind of "hipster" that those who were on stage lol Plus he probably was with the scores in hands. What I wonder is how the audience did not recognize his husky voice
> 
> I second what monsieur (ou madame) Couac wrote. I managed to buy cheap tickets in Paris, (even at Bastille), ROH London, Vienna and the MET.
> It is correct that opera is an entire night out and one must finish work / obligations pretty early. Saturday or Sunday matinees are sometimes an option though


Still bizarre. Even a Rodolfo dressed as a 21st century German holidaymaker and clutching a score is better than miming! :lol:


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## WertherCharlotte (Mar 14, 2015)

lol! I agree, hate miming too.

- off topic sorry everyone - as anyone in the UK seen Ellen Kent's Rigoletto? Looks interesting 






(saw this on my twitter)


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

WertherCharlotte said:


> They did not put him on stage because he was on vacation at his home nearby and just flew in an helicopter in his kakis & polo shirt & boat shoes, unshaved (as if): It was written that he was a different kind of "hipster" that those who were on stage lol Plus he probably was with the scores in hands. What I wonder is how the audience did not recognize his husky voice


The singing change was announced from the stage before the performance was to begin. And then there was a 40-minute delay before the opera actually started. And to my understanding Jonas Kaufmann was already at the festival because was in the _Ariadne auf Naxos_.

But yes, Jonas was not the standby; he was not supposed to be involved in the production at all.



Figleaf said:


> Still bizarre. Even a Rodolfo dressed as a 21st century German holidaymaker and clutching a score is better than miming! :lol:


Yes, it all sounds quite bizarre. The production, however, had more for the singers to do than stand there. From what I saw when video was on YouTube (it was recorded for DVD with Beczala singing the part) it looked very intriguing.

They certainly did not plan to mime the part but Beczala did not decide he couldn't sing until ten minutes before the start time.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

This thread seems to be transitioning so I'll just roll with it, if I may...

I hope that an opera chorus contains understudies who know the parts of the main roles. Surely they must live for such an opportunity! If your chorus doesn't have (full-time?) members that cannot cover the main roles, doesn't that say something about your personnel? I went to a performance recently that had all kinds of understudies and miming/singing from wings, but at least they managed to put on a show despite the flu ravaging the company.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

WertherCharlotte said:


> lol! I agree, hate miming too.
> 
> - off topic sorry everyone - as anyone in the UK seen Ellen Kent's Rigoletto? Looks interesting
> View attachment 66394
> (saw this on my twitter)


Nudity? Eagle with 7 foot wing span? Get me a ticket!

I'd love to be cynical about the above, but basically, people all over the country are going to see opera for (I'll take a guess) less than Will Self spends on his lunch.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Of course, on a local basis, the Utah Opera has proven itself to be rather affordable with consistent productions across the board and I really enjoy most of the operas they have done. Except that they haven't touched Wagner yet.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

anmhe said:


> If my local opera company offered tickets for less than $10, I'd go all the time. As it is, I can't find tickets for less than $80 most of the time (even though ads say the prices start at $25). The bigger sticking point for me is the quality. I've opted out of certain productions after I heard that many of the large choruses were prerecorded. I'll dish out a lot of money for a great show, but I will not spend money on pre-recorded choruses.


Wow. That is pretty mean. Who is doing pre-recorded choruses?


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Alexander said:


> Nudity? Eagle with 7 foot wing span? Get me a ticket!


Unless it's the eagle that is nude.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

anmhe can you please tell us more about the evidence you have for WNO using prerecorded chorus parts? It's quite a claim.

I googled it and this is all I can find, and it's fine by me for this part.

http://www.classicfm.com/artists/welsh-national-opera/news/stephen-fry-perform-welsh-national-opera/


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

Belowpar said:


> anmhe can you please tell us more about the evidence you have for WNO using prerecorded chorus parts? It's quite a claim.
> 
> I googled it and this is all I can find, and it's fine by me for this part.
> 
> http://www.classicfm.com/artists/welsh-national-opera/news/stephen-fry-perform-welsh-national-opera/


The only evidence I have is this review of Der Fliegende Holländer: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/theater/2015/03/10/im-on-a-boat-washington-national-operas-the-flying-dutchman-reviewed/

It's only one review, but it did influence my decision to save my money.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

anmhe thank you. We are clearly thinking of different WNO's.

Interesting the one comment the article gets, denies this.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> anmhe thank you. We are clearly thinking of different WNO's.
> 
> Interesting the one comment the article gets, denies this.


Lol, I totally thought he meant the Welsh National Opera! How provincial of me, since nobody outside the British Isles has probably ever heard of this company. So we've been talking at cross-purposes- sorry all!


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

A comment may deny it, but the paper hasn't retracted that review or offered an apology (that I know of).

I'm glad I could clarify which WNO I was referring to.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

anmhe said:


> A comment may deny it, but the paper hasn't retracted that review or offered an apology (that I know of).
> 
> I'm glad I could clarify which WNO I was referring to.


Sounds like, regardless of confusion over initials, there are a lot of opera companies out there with questionable standards! :tiphat:


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> Lol, I totally thought he meant the Welsh National Opera! How provincial of me, since nobody outside the British Isles has probably ever heard of this company. So we've been talking at cross-purposes- sorry all!


Somehow I was thinking of Welsh instead of Washington as well, even though the prices were quoted in dollars. I was even trying to see if I could arrange a visit to my family near Washington D.C. to coincide with this production.

Apparently more on my mind is the Usher House/La chute de la maison Usher coming to SFO* next season, which is a co-production with Welsh National Opera.

* That's San Francisco, not Santa Fe!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Figleaf said:


> In the article I read, the vocally indisposed leading lady mimed the performance while her understudy sang from the wings. Bizarre arrangement.


It happens more often than you think. I saw _Simon Boccanegra_ at ROH and Ferruccio Furlanetto wasn't able to sing so he mimed and Sir John Tomlinson sang the role from the side of the stage.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Live opera productions are expensive in bigger opera houses, even when the staging is minimal and cheap. I attended live operas that were played in my city. I always bought the more expensive tickets and that means around $70. The cheap ticket comes with a problem, as a couple of productions suffered in the singing area, but not always. Some operas were so beautifully staged (singing and acting). What happened? While Met sneezed, the small opera company died...at the beginning of the financial crisis. They sometimes show recorded shows, but I have never attended this sort of cinema opera. So for a couple of years I attended no live opera. Ballet spectacle still come (Russians) but they dance on recorded music...which I didn't like.
I find it hard to believe that they could stage an opera and some singers will only mimic their role...brrr


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

anmhe said:


> The only evidence I have is this review of Der Fliegende Holländer: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/theater/2015/03/10/im-on-a-boat-washington-national-operas-the-flying-dutchman-reviewed/
> 
> It's only one review, but it did influence my decision to save my money.


I wouldn't put too much stock into any review that references SpongeBob SquarePants.  I've only seen Dutchman once, but as I recall there were some ghostly effects, maybe an offstage chorus echo, that may have confused the reviewer. If he convinced you in any way, shape, or form to take a pass on catching the amazing Eric Owens in performance, then you have been profoundly mislead.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

sabrina said:


> Ballet spectacle still come (Russians) but they dance on recorded music...


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Couac Addict said:


>


I saw Swan Lake,The Nutcracker beautifully danced, but there was no orchestra playing, just recorded music that was flowing through the speakers. It is cheaper to stage ballet with no orchestra, so :"money, money, money, in the rich man's world"


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


>


I can't tell whether the cats are startled by the revelation of "fake singing" or whether they are part of an opera chorus. Either ways, it's all good.


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## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

I love going to the opera. Went last night (Tosca -- wonderful). I purchase the best seats available. I'm not rich. 

There's actually a nice mix of folks at my local opera -- the wealthy, seasonal residents, tourists, older folks, younger folks, women clad in jewels, guys in jeans, the curious, the "regulars," the pilgrims who plan visits around those weeks where all of the operas in a give season are performed one after the other festival style. 

It's great. It seems fairly democratic and welcoming. Everyone seems to have a grand time.

The wealthy certainly donate to the opera generously. Thank goodness for that, and it's a wonderful thing to do for those who have the means. But I can get a ticket for as low as $20 if I choose to. Not too much more than a movie ticket.

I would have never paid any attention to opera until taking a class and actually attending performances. Now, I love it. So I would say actually getting people to attend and experience the opera would seem to be the key. 

And I prefer classic interpretations, sans hamburgers.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

papsrus said:


> I love going to the opera. Went last night (Tosca -- wonderful). I purchase the best seats available. I'm not rich.
> 
> There's actually a nice mix of folks at my local opera -- the wealthy, seasonal residents, tourists, older folks, younger folks, women clad in jewels, guys in jeans, the curious, the "regulars," the pilgrims who plan visits around those weeks where all of the operas in a give season are performed one after the other festival style.
> 
> ...


Sounds good!

You get that sort of mix in Europe and the be-jewelled don't notice the jeans-clad and vice versa.


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## ozradio (Oct 23, 2008)

I saw an article recently about how inexpensive the arts are in mid-size cities. A couple seasons back I bought season tickets for the Kansas City Symphony (14 shows) and the Lyric Opera (4 shows) for $400. A chunk of change to drop at once but I'd saved up and that is just over 21$ a show on average. No, it's not a premier symphony but well worth the money and affordable for anyone with some level of disposable income. I'm a school teacher and it didn't hurt the checkbook too badly.


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