# Tristan und Isolde recordings?



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Tristan is one opera I have not able to get on with too well though I am told it is a masterpiece. I have Bohm's recording with Nilsson's steam-whistle soprano which is a wonder though not very easy on the ears. Anyone have any thoughts on which might be a good alternative? Kleiber? Karajan? Etc?
Be glad to hear your opinions.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I like this one, Nina Stemme has such a beautiful voice. I don't enjoy listening to Nillson and this is the antithesis.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I have Barenboim's one on cd (and a DVD performance with the same cast I think)










Waltraud Meier, for me, has a much more beautiful (but still very powerful) voice than Nilsson. It might be a good choice.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

My favorite remains Karajan's 1972 recording. The stars here include HvK's Berliners which play with a perfection and lushness that conveys an icy eroticism; Vickers, who is a marvelous Tristan; Dernesch, conveys a greater vulnerability than Nilsson although perhaps no one surpasses the pairing of Lauritz Melchior and Kirsten Flagstad... if only they had recorded T&I with today's recording technology. Add to HvK's set the pairing of Christa Ludwig and Walter Berry in the lesser roles and you have one of the essential recordings.

Personally, I like Furtwangler's with Nilsson as well, but I agree that the Pappano with Domingo is a good set. The "bleeding chunks" recorded by Deborah Voigt and Domingo are quite stunning... to the point that I quite wish the pair had recorded the whole of T&I.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Waltraud Meier, for me, has a much more beautiful (but still very powerful) voice than Nilsson.

Yes... but it's Barenboim! Mr. boring himself.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Waltraud Meier, for me, has a much more beautiful (but still very powerful) voice than Nilsson.
> 
> Yes... but it's Barenboim! Mr. boring himself.


I like his tempi, the fantastic singers make up for his lack of expression in some parts. At least it isn't Karajan!


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Karajan will be remembered far after Barenboim is rightfully forgotten. Hell... give me Levine even.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

I'd probably go with von Karajan (not one of my favorite conductors) because of the incandescent Vickers Tristan. Kleiber is a fleet, lighter voiced miracle that would never work live, but it is an interesting experiment. If you can handle decent mono sound then Furtwängler/Flagstad is very good.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Barenboim gives a very nice performance on the 1995 DVD, really gets the brass going. The CD is a bit less preferable, also the Brangane on the CD is weaker than the DVD.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I like Bohm. This is an opera that definately *can* be taken too slow.


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## HumphreyAppleby (Apr 11, 2013)

Kollo and Price under Kleiber. Margaret Price sings the part exceptionally beautifully, and with a deep characterization. Her Liebestod is the best I've heard, and the most heartfelt. Kleiber gets a great sound from the Dresden orchestra and keeps the opera moving through the (many) rather tedious passages.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Many say that recordings don't do justice to Nilsson's voice, and that you had to hear her live in the opera house to appreciate what an amazing instrument she had . I ws priveleged to be at a performance of Gotterdammerung at the Met back in the 1970s, and I can say her voice was a miracle , and her overall artistry made her more than just a great voice . 
All the Tristan complete recordings I've heard have their virtues as well as some imperfections; but the virtues outweigh the faults on the whole . Bohm,Karajan,Barenboim,Pappano, Furtwangler , Carlos Kleiber ; you can't go wrong with any of these . 
There is live Bayreuth Tristan from 1974 with Kleiber which has been available on small pirate labels for some time, and this is well-worth hearing,too . The Solti/Nilsson Decca recording has been trashed by quite afew critics, but I've always felt it to be very underrated . The Bernstein recording on Philips with Hildegard Behrens is also worth hearing , but this may be hard to find. I'm not sure if Decca has reissued it yuet, as much of the Philips catalogue is being recycled on Decca after the unfortunate demise of the label .
There's also live Bueonos Aires performance with Nilsson and Vickers ocnducted by the late Horst Stein which is worth hearing if you're willing to put up with lackluster sonics on VAI .
The EMI Tristan with Flagstad and Melchior in their prime with Beecham conducting is unfortunately mixed with prts from another live performance conducted by Fritz Reiner as parts of the Beecham performace were lost on tape .
There are other recordings I haven't heard with Knappertsbusch from Munich and Victor De Sabata from Milan which are said to be terrific, but according to reports, the De Sabata recording has atrocious sound .


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

I would rank the recordings I've heard in this order:

1. Furtwangler
2. Kleiber
3. Bohm
4. Karajan
5. Pappano

Yes Furtwangler's is one of the longest performances, but easily the most magisterial and enthralling in my opinion. The others all have recommendable aspects, like Vicker's Tristan for Karajan or Nilsson's Isolde for Bohm...


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

The topic of _Tristan und Isolde_ recordings was churning around in my mind recently. The conclusion I drew is that, of all the Wagner operas, _Tristan und Isolde_ has the greatest number of acceptable "live-with-it" recordings. It's not just Wagnerian fan-ism that makes me say this. By contrast, I feel that any recording of _Die Walküre_ involves dealing with some compromises.

Now, _if_ you grant my premise (and I understand that a few people might *not*), the _why_ of it would make for a worthy thread-topic all its own. It's been a while since I've heard the Kleiber... but excepting that, I wouldn't want to say anything bad about any of the commercially available recordings mentioned so far. As just one voice in this conversation, the one I turn to most is Karajan. After that, Böhm. Pappano gets more spins than the Furtwängler. Still, I feel that they're all very fine.

A late entrant in this derby- and a fierce competitor to the Furtwängler as the best mono-version out there is the '38 Bodansky recording included in the new box-set "Wagner at the Met." It features Melchior as Tristan (who laps the _Heldentenor_ field just about any time he's involved). [Well... maybe prime Vickers isn't all that far back]. It also adds an absolutely at-her-apex Kirsten Flagstad as Isolde.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

:lol: looks like we have a consensus ...


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## Adeodatus100 (May 27, 2013)

I like Nilsson and Windgassen in the Böhm recording - it's Böhm I don't like. All fast and crashy. _Tristan und Isolde_ is not a fast, crashy opera on the whole. Among the stereo performances, I very much like Pappano, with Stemme and Domingo. But above all I love the Furtwängler with Flagstad and Suthaus - sensual and a bit languid, but with a tremendous underlying power.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Ask not which Tristan und Isolde recording is good enough for you, but which Tristan und Isolde recording _you_ are good enough for.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Ask not which Tristan und Isolde recording is good enough for you, but which Tristan und Isolde recording _you_ are good enough for.


As soon as I hand my money over to Amazon I am good enough.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't think anyone mentioned the 1952 Furtwangler with the mature Flagstad, who was still absolutely amazing, if a bit mature sounding! There is also the Fritz Reiner with Helen Traubel, who rivals Flagstad as the most beautiful and accomplished Isolde. No one does a more beautiful Liebestod than Traubel. I still must say that I don't understand the characterization of Nilsson as having an unattractive voice! She was so thrilling! I also love the 30's recording of Flagstad and Melchior.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I like this one, Nina Stemme has such a beautiful voice. I don't enjoy listening to Nillson and this is the antithesis.


That one is definitely a remarkable recording. I am next going to try Barenboim with Waltraud Meier and Siefgried Jerusalem.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Why, pray tell, are there so many _Tristan_ threads active, and why just now? Has the deep state figured out that the arousal of Wagnerian erotic urges undermines support for Trump? Will this work on the deplorables?


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Why, pray tell, are there so many _Tristan_ threads active, and why just now? *Has the deep state figured out that the arousal of Wagnerian erotic urges undermines support for Trump? Will this work on the deplorables?*


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Why, pray tell, are there so many _Tristan_ threads active, and why just now? Has the deep state figured out that the arousal of Wagnerian erotic urges undermines support for Trump? Will this work on the deplorables?


_Deep state_ is a dog whistle (used by various factions) so that makes me immediately suspicious. Could it really be a coincidence that all these threads have risen to the surface at the same time? How many people would you need to organise something like this? Only one. One poster who really likes T&I would only have to private message a few people to get them to reactivate some old T&I threads. So it could be done with only five people knowing about it, which means it is unlikely to come out as it's reasonable to assume that five people can keep a secret.

Now who do we know who likes T&I a lot and would love to be able to display their knowledge of the work? I have an idea - and I think _you_ do too! (nudge, nudge,   )

N.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Why, pray tell, are there so many _Tristan_ threads active, and why just now? Has the deep state figured out that the arousal of Wagnerian erotic urges undermines support for Trump? Will this work on the deplorables?


I am probably guilty of reactivating about half a dozen of these threads. It is very easy to find them if you just scroll to the bottom of the page in a Tristan thread and see several listings of similar threads, which then piques one's curiosity and then I figured it is a waste to go into an old thread like that and not wake it up. In fact, I see several below that are old and look interesting. Maybe I do some more exploring.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I am probably guilty of reactivating about half a dozen of these threads. It is very easy to find them if you just scroll to the bottom of the page in a Tristan thread and see several listings of similar threads, which then piques one's curiosity and then I figured it is a waste to go into an old thread like that and not wake it up. In fact, I see several below that are old and look interesting. Maybe I do some more exploring.


I suspected as much. Mystery solved. But it is rather disappointing to learn that this is not an international conspiracy posing a profound danger to the regime in power. Wagner has been blamed for inspiring one dictator, who took exactly the wrong message from his revolutionary works. Surely their fundamental subversiveness should be given a chance to undermine the Alberichische aspirations of the orange despot.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I am probably guilty of reactivating about half a dozen of these threads. It is very easy to find them if you just scroll to the bottom of the page in a Tristan thread and see several listings of similar threads, which then piques one's curiosity and then I figured it is a waste to go into an old thread like that and not wake it up. In fact, I see several below that are old and look interesting. Maybe I do some more exploring.


I wondered who started this one then noticed it was me 5 years ago. Since then I have acquired several Tristans:

Bohm
Karajan 1 & 2
Kleiber
Furtwangler

Still don't get on with it too well! :lol:

Oh and I also got hold of a DVD with Heppner and Eaglan for next to nothing at a charity shop. Good for those who like their Tristan bulky. They are both fine singers but oh dear! This is what makes opera go from the ridiculous to the ludicrous.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DavidA said:


> I wondered who started this one then noticed it was me 5 years ago. Since then I have acquired several Tristans:
> 
> Bohm
> Karajan 1 & 2
> ...


But hey, overweight people do fall in love too. 

Have you watched a *good* DVD of it with the subtitles turned on? If not, you need to. This one highly recommended:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> I suspected as much. Mystery solved. But it is rather disappointing to learn that this is not an international conspiracy posing a profound danger to the regime in power. Wagner has been blamed for inspiring one dictator, who took exactly the wrong message from his revolutionary works. Surely their fundamental subversiveness should be given a chance to undermine the Alberichische aspirations of the orange despot.


I can't help myself. It happened to me same as catching a cold. Itullian had it and I hung around his posts too much and now I have it.

Hey, anybody know if Trump is into Wagner?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I can't help myself. It happened to me same as catching a cold. Itullian had it and I hung around his posts too much and now I have it.
> 
> Hey, anybody know if Trump is into Wagner?


Oh, you are the funny one, aren't you?

For Wagner one needs an attention span.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Oh and I also got hold of a DVD with Heppner and Eaglan for next to nothing at a charity shop. Good for those who like their Tristan bulky. They are both fine singers but oh dear! This is what makes opera go from the ridiculous to the ludicrous.


That production has a number of problems, from odd and drab sets and costumes to Levine's slow conducting, but the biggest problem is probably not the weight of the singers (though I must say that Eaglen had an alarming problem with that) but the director's failure to have them do anything but plant themselves and sing. The whole thing is about as emotionally and erotically charged as a lecture on stock options.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

C'mon people! If we're having a trillion new or resurrected Wagner threads at least let it be for The Ring!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Sonata said:


> C'mon people! If we're having a trillion new or resurrected Wagner threads at least let it be for The Ring!


I'm game .................


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

If only Tristan und Isolde could have been worked into the Ring as a 5th opera. Somewhere between Siegfried and Gotterdammerung. A few changes would have been needed (Siegfried instead of Tristan and Brunnhilde instead of Isolde), but think how wonderful to add several more hours to the Ring!


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