# If you like Bruckner's 9th...



## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

...how do you feel about the last movement? I find it is like a reverie and the tension builds up very slowly but with perfect timing. When the climax is reached I imagine I'm falling off a cliff and then rolling and rolling until I slowly pass away and fade to nothing. 

For me there is no need for a 4th movement. It is almost as if he knew he would die after the adagio.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

> It is almost as if he knew he would die after the adagio.


You are right, he did, which is why he did all he could to be sure that it was not left as a 3 movement torso, even to the point of making a suggestion about what could be used as a 4th movement. It is our misfortune that he wasn't able to fully complete it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

There will be a lot of repeated statements in this thread, as we have discussed it already a couple of times. I love the 3 movement version, dislike the 4th movement altogether. And I'm pretty sure that even if Bruckner himself had finished it, including orchestration, I would not have liked it.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

beetzart said:


> ..
> 
> For me there is no need for a 4th movement..


Couldn't agree more. Every time I hear the completed finale, it seems to detract from what is a perfect torso. The Adagio is a serene piece of musical perfection, not a bad way to sign off as a composer.

I love, adore and love Mahler's Tenth, btw.....


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

beetzart said:


> ...how do you feel about the last movement? I find it is like a reverie and the tension builds up very slowly but with perfect timing. When the climax is reached I imagine I'm falling off a cliff and then rolling and rolling until I slowly pass away and fade to nothing.
> 
> For me there is no need for a 4th movement. It is almost as if he knew he would die after the adagio.


I don't think I'd go that far; I enjoy watching the progress of the completions.

But I do agree, the last movement, with its quotes at the end from his musical successes, can be presented as a fitting way of expressing Bruckner's wish to show God what he had done with the talent given to him. Handling the third movement as an ending, like Guilini does very well, gives you the impression that what comes next is meant for closed doors behind the celestial gates.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I have only just started to know this symphony, what is the story behind having only three movements?


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

I like the work performed as both a 3 movement incompletion, a 4 movement edition crafted from his sketches, and with the Te Deum attached to the end of the 3 completed movements. In other words, I like the work any which way you give it to me. 

I only own 2 completions of the finale and have only heard one or two additional to that but I think it's a fine finale and doesn't deserve the denegration it gets from some corners. If it's the completion you worry about then you must hate the completed Mahler 10th, which I think is also a treasure. If it's the work itself you think is unworthy, well I suppose that's your prerogative. I think Beethoven's Op. 130 is better with the Grosse Fuge but I also think the finale is brilliant. I feel the same way about the Te Deum and completed finale of Bruckner's 9th.

All that said, I generally listen to the work as a torso. Well to be honest, more often one movement as a time as I generally do with the more long-winded symphonic composers.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Judith said:


> I have only just started to know this symphony, what is the story behind having only three movements?


Read the Wikipedia article ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Bruckner)


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

From now on why not record the whole thing. And if the traditionalists prefer the torso then either skip the final movement altogether or play it in isolation as an oddity.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Judith - the obvious thing to say is the Ninth is three movements because he failed to complete the fourth, but that tells little of the story. He worked on the 9th for ages, but one could also argue he was beset by revisions of his earlier works, which held progress back. He completed the three proper movements well before he died, but seriously struggled with getting a satisfactory finale; there are hundreds of pages of sketches. He also lost physical strength in his last months, and these sketches do, I believe, indicate that writing was becoming difficult for him physically. In desperation he suggested ending the work with his own Te Deum, not a happy resolution. Basically he ran out of time, despite actually having enough, if you get my drift. If Bruckner couldn't do it, I doubt a committee of dedicated scholars and followers can have any more success! I hope this is helpful.

The work is dedicated "To God", maybe with the slow movement, a celestial decision was made that he had done enough.....


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