# Simone Dinnerstein explains counterpoint to children



## Guest




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## jegreenwood

Strikes me as more of an explanation of John Cage. 

(At least on my computer I get an empty post.)


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## Bulldog

Empty here as well. A little tending of the thread is needed.


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## Pugg

Just activate your acrobat reader, it's fine working here. 
( as prove, the kids wearing Santa heads)


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## Taggart

It's browser specific. Chrome, IE and Edge show the video straight away. For Firefox, I had to install Adobe Flash, restart the browser and then click on the video to allow Flash for this session. The current version of Firefox - Quantum or 57.0 - has its own HTML 5 video tools and thinks Flash slows the browser down.


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## tdc

A good lesson for youth. 

Is it necessary to make that guttural sound in the throat when pronouncing Bach's name in English? Personally I wish people wouldn't do that unless they are speaking German.


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## Guest

Sorry for the technical issues that affect some of you. I thought it was a clever way to introduce counterpoint to children. Most are paying such close attention!


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## jegreenwood

Taggart said:


> It's browser specific. Chrome, IE and Edge show the video straight away. For Firefox, I had to install Adobe Flash, restart the browser and then click on the video to allow Flash for this session. The current version of Firefox - Quantum or 57.0 - has its own HTML 5 video tools and thinks Flash slows the browser down.


Couldn't get it to work with Chrome. Edge asked if I wanted to run Flash. I said yes - but still saw nothing.

Edit - it just appeared in Edge.


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## jegreenwood

Kontrapunctus said:


> Sorry for the technical issues that affect some of you. I thought it was a clever way to introduce counterpoint to children. Most are paying such close attention!


You gotta get 'em while they're young. Something that New York City (well most of the U.S.) has forgotten.

P.S. 321 is an exception. It's one of the best schools in the City.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/n...hool-in-park-slope-no-one-wants-to-leave.html


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## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> Couldn't get it to work with Chrome. Edge asked if I wanted to run Flash. I said yes - but still saw nothing.
> 
> Edit - it just appeared in Edge.


I use Chrome--works fine.


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## jegreenwood

Kontrapunctus said:


> I use Chrome--works fine.


What can I say? Chrome is my default browser - I'm using it now. Nothing shows. One can only conclude that Chrome will display the video properly for for some but not for for others.

My Chrome setting for Flash is "Ask to Use Chrome." But unlike Edge, Chrome has never asked.

Edit - of course I meant "Ask to Use Flash."


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## Pugg

Perhaps this link is working and of any help for those who can't see the other ..


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## eugeneonagain

In current Firefox all that needs to be done is click on the little grey 'lego block' preceding the 'www' in the address bar. It gives you a choice to allow the flash for this one instance or to allow and save the choice for all instances.


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## TurnaboutVox

tdc said:


> A good lesson for youth.
> 
> Is it necessary to make that guttural sound in the throat when pronouncing Bach's name in English? Personally I wish people wouldn't do that unless they are speaking German.


To me (I'm Scots) the 'gutteral sound in the throat' /_x_/ is the normal way to pronounce many words that have 'ch' or 'gh' in them, especially those adapted from Gaelic, or Old Scots words (loch / lough, broch, driech, haugh, licht etc.). So it comes naturally to pronounce German names and words in that way (actually, what other way is there? )


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## tdc

TurnaboutVox said:


> To me (I'm Scots) the 'gutteral sound in the throat' /_x_/ is the normal way to pronounce many words that have 'ch' or 'gh' in them, especially those adapted from Gaelic, or Old Scots words (loch / lough, broch, driech, haugh, licht etc.). So it comes naturally to pronounce German names and words in that way (actually, what other way is there? )


Growing up in North America there are no other English words commonly used that sound that way, so when someone is speaking English and then uses that pronunciation for that one word it makes his name sound strange and unfamiliar, rather than just saying it how it would sound in English so like B-o-k. Using the German pronunciation sounds fine when speaking German because other words also sound that way. When used in English it makes the word stick out like a sore thumb and it makes the name sound kind of ugly. When a person is speaking English to a bunch of young students and then pronounces Bach's name with the guttural sound, I think it would just make the name sound confusing. Maybe its just a personal quirk but when someone is speaking English and then uses German pronunciation for Bach, they just sound a little bit pedantic and pretentious to me.

It is entirely possible your way is considered more technically correct, I still don't like it, and wouldn't say Bach's name that way unless I was speaking German.


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## eugeneonagain

tdc said:


> Growing up in North America there are no other English words commonly used that sound that way, so when someone is speaking English and then uses that pronunciation for that one word it makes his name sound strange and unfamiliar, rather than just saying it how it would sound in English so like B-o-k.


I may have a faulty memory of my youth, but as far as I can remember it has never been said that way in England; especially with the vowel sounding like an 'o'. What's all that about?


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## tdc

eugeneonagain said:


> I may have a faulty memory of my youth, but as far as I can remember it has never been said that way in England; especially with the vowel sounding like an 'o'. What's all that about?


I don't know how it is said in England, but I'm speaking about North America where it appears this video was filmed. Look its not that big of a deal to me, more of a pet peeve. If I was sitting in that class as a young North American student hearing Dinnerstein say the word Baccch that way it would instantly make me feel strange about what she was teaching, its almost like she is saying "Look you probably can't even pronounce this guy's name correctly, nevermind understand his music." It sounds intimidating and foreign and I think people have a tendency to be intimidated already by classical music enough already without the European accent added to Bach's name.

Here most people just say Bach as in rhymes with 'talk' and 'hawk'.


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## eugeneonagain

tdc said:


> It sounds intimidating and foreign and I think people have a tendency to be intimidated already by classical music enough already without the European accent added to Bach's name.


Blimey, how do you go on with words from languages less closely-related to English? I keep getting told that because of the great melting-pot of cultures in the U.S. (including German), people are more accustomed to pronouncing these words as they should be... perhaps it's just a myth?


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## tdc

eugeneonagain said:


> Blimey, how do you go on with words from languages less closely-related to English? I keep getting told that because of the great melting-pot of cultures in the U.S. (including German), people are more accustomed to pronouncing these words as they should be... perhaps it's just a myth?


It depends on the word I think. This one just stands out to me because its pronunciation is so different from anything in North American English and its a composer's name, and oddly I think people can have reservations about music based on trivial things like that. A while back I read a post here by someone claiming they had shied away from listening to the music of Schnittke, simply because they did not like his name.


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## brianvds

Pugg said:


> Perhaps this link is working and of any help for those who can't see the other ..


Is this the link the OP referred to? I ask because, Chrome or not, I get an empty first post in this thread.


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