# Hilary Hahn leaves me cold



## Jaime77

Hi all

I just wanted to mention that next week I am going to hear Janine Jansen in concert and I have been thinking about some of the other young lady violinists around. One that jumps out is Hilary Hahn. It is interesting that some musicians excite us with their passion or particular frequency of expression, if you could call it that. Whereas others just don't seem to touch us at all. I use Hahn and Jansen as cases in point. I have been moved by Jansen a few times and I cannot even explain it. Hahn however has failed in anything she has played to either excite me or move me. 

I wonder if anyone a) feels the same about Hilary Hahn and Janine Jansen. Both, clearly brilliant violinists of the younger generation. This has nothing to do with technique. 

b) can think of other performers that just don't effect them on an emotional level at all inspite of high praise and so on. Conversely maybe a performer that always moves you springs to mind? 

No disrespect intended towards Hilary btw. This is a very personal thing it seems. 

Thanks


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## emiellucifuge

Yay Jansen!

What will she be playing? and with who?

Her Beethoven concerto bored me (though im told its the piece itself) but recently her Sibelius was excellent with the RCO/KCO.


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## Lukecash12

As for Hahn, I understand where you are coming from. Even when she is trying to seem passionate, it's weak-handed (in my opinion), her tone is a bit flat, and her playing sounds more like empty technicality. And maybe this is all just because her bowing is so light, missing a healthy touch. It's like trying to compare someone who may be very good nevertheless, to Glenn Gould, Michaelangeli, or Giesking when any one of them plays Bach. There is a vitality and rhythmic pulse that is missing.

And that is nothing against her. I just don't like her playing.


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## Jaime77

Yep Luke.. I would agree with the empty technicality statement. Some people seem very excited by her but just not me. I have her playing thr Barber Violin Concerto - quite a gorgeous piece and her tone is beautiful at times but... just nothing in the way of effecting me. 

Emiel ... yes! Jansen will be playing Brahms Sonata No.1, Bartok's No.2 and one in G by Beethoven that I didn't know before. I think the Brahms will be passionate and the Bartok wild!


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## jurianbai

I haven't heard any of Janine Jansen, but I'm no problem with Hilary Hahn. I got her recording playing Spohr and Paganini and I think that's quite good.

Here another young talent to be watched, Chloe Hanslip. Got her recording playing Max Bruch concerto. The same piece also played by another young violinist, Sarah Chang.


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## Sid James

I love the way Hahn plays the Schoenberg concerto - passionate, dramatic, dark, bold - I could go on. Obviously this is a matter of personal taste, but I read in the cd notes that she had been playing this work to packed houses & rave reviews in Europe. So I don't think that her playing is inferior to anyone else's. I can't comment about Jansen as I have not heard any of her playing.

Another young attractive female violinist is our very own (Australian) Nikki Vasilakis, who has recorded the Bruch & Mendelssohn concertos. I think her playing is pretty good...


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## Jaime77

yes hahn is very popular. she deserves the rave reviews too and this indeed is personal taste, as i said. i actually really like the schoenberg concerto. i have it too. it is very interesting though, from a personal perspective that she doesn't move me emotionally at all, so yes i can see it might be passionate 'technically' but i dont *feel* it but you do. it seems by this thread I am not the only one tho who is left out in the cold by hahn, exceptional technique or no, perhaps we will never know why or how this happens as it does.


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## SPR

I guess I shouldnt be surprised by this thread.... everyones taste is different. I think she plays beautifully.

This topic made me listen again though... so I pulled out Hahn and Perlmans versions of the Bach solo Partitas...

















I think both performances are really very, very good. There are a few things I like about each... I prefer Perlmans overall I think... but there are a few tracks where I feel like Hahns is better. Each is emotive and executed with precision and grace. Good stuff! Both CDs are nicely produced. Is it worth noting that Hahn was 18 and Perlman 43 during these? perhaps not.

I bet if Hahn came to your house and played a melting and soaring solo sonata.... you would be absolutely floored. Then again... maybe not.  I sort of feel like it is picking nits just a little with someone of her or similar caliber - though I *certainly* dont fault anyone for expressing an honest opinion such as you did Jaime77. I do get your point.


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## PoliteNewYorker

I agree with Andre...Hahn really owns that Schoenberg concerto. That piece is pretty much impossible to play, and the other recordings of it just sound cold and mathematical. She was able to bring out things from that score that I had no idea were there. I mean, she was nominated for a grammy for SCHOENBERG. Think about that for a minute. She also does a very good Elgar VC. Not definitive, but quite good.
I saw and met Hahn live at the launch party for her new CD 'Bach: Violin and Voice'. She played a few solo Bach pieces, which were very good. Now, if she'd only do a Berg concerto...
. I also think it's unfair and probably sexist to lump all young female violinists together. I see people doing this all the time with the likes of Hahn, Jansen, Mutter and Chang. Besides their sex, what separates them from, say, Gil Shaham?


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## Guest

Hahn, technically very good but not a lot of emotion/feeling but that will come in time.


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## jurianbai

For Bach concerto 1041 to 1043, both Hillary Hahn and Julia Fischer recorded exactly identical CD. I've listened to both but can't tell which one is better, I think no such thing maybe.


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## Nix

I've only heard brief snippets of Jansine with the Beethoven violin concerto- and I can't say I was particularly moved; I really love my Vadim Repin recording. As for Hahn, I love her Stravinsky and Brahms, and the music she played for James Newton Howards film score "The Village."


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## beansdoc

i agree. i don't understand the hype about hilary hahn. her sound is not a beautiful one. her technique is adequate. her bach is good but not as good as, say, nathan milstein's. alas, they don't make 'em like they used to.


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## handlebar

I find that she is getting better with age but,like others here, is nothing that special. These days young violinists are a dime a dozen and need to be something really special to light up the world.
I found her Spohr disc decent and to be honest rather refreshing as Herr Spohr has not seen much exposure these last few years.

At least she is attractive. ;-) But then again a lot of the new crop of artists are that. Great marketing angle no doubt. Remember the Lara St John CD covers? Or the Ofra Harnoy CD's.

Jim


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## beansdoc

well said. these young violinists these days are mediocre. i do like gil shaham and midori...sometimes. have you heard gil shaham's recording of the korngold? 

and there's still one legendary violinist who's still alive: kyung wha chung. though even she is past her peak.


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## handlebar

The Shaham Korngold (and it's companion Barber) is my favourite modern recording. He gives the Barber the perfect rubato and phrasing while the Korngold is simply stunning.
Heifetz did the Korngold well too but then again it is quite dated.

I saw Midori when she was but a little spout and she played the Mendelssohn VC. Well done for an 8 or 9 yr old but way too soon for anyone IMHO. Now though, she is indeed a very good violinist with insight and maturity that speak volumes. Same goes with Joshua Bell.

Jim


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## Lemminkainen

There's still only one Nigel Kennedy.


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## handlebar

Lemminkainen said:


> There's still only one Nigel Kennedy.


I still find his Elgar VC on EMI with Handley as my favourite.


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## Lemminkainen

handlebar said:


> I still find his Elgar VC on EMI with Handley as my favourite.


Agreed. His image and his willingness to go far afield musically gets in the way of appreciating the quality of some of the "straight" recordings he's made.

I am particularly fond as well of the album he made with Lynn Harrell.


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## jurianbai

Got the James Ehness playing Korngold and Barber as my version.

Back to girls talk. Here are a line up of current female violinist that make it to my collection. Almost mainly because of the CD "cover"  .... and several magazine review.

Viktoria Mullova (b1959) - Bach partita & sonata
Sarah Chang (born 1980) - Tchaikovsky VC
Hahn (b1979) - Spohr,Paganini
Jansen (b1978) - Beethoven, Britten VC
Julia Fischer (b1983) - Bach 1041-1043
Leila Josefowicz (b1977) - Shostakovich VC no.1 
and much younger Chloe Hanslip (b1987) - Bruch VC

others:
Kyung-hwa, Chung (b1948)
Akiko Suwanai (b1972)
Anne-Sophie Mutter (b1963)

male:
Maxim Vengerov - Lalo,Saint saen, latest news is he was injury and switch to conducting
Cho Liang Lin - Sibelius, Nielsen
James Ehnes - newcomer, Hummel's VC
etc.


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## akiralx

I actually prefer Hilary Hahn's recording of the Brahms concerto to that of any of the older violinists, with the possible exception of Heifetz's with Koussevitzky. Her Elgar was a big disappointment though.


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## World Violist

There are probably three or four violinists alive that I actually like to listen to, and Pinchas Zukerman and Aaron Rosand are the only two that immediately come to mind. Even Perlman often enough just doesn't do it for me, as he occasionally tends to mannerism that compromises the focus on the music. I agree he is a great violinist, and my largely not liking his style is entirely my preference.

My two votes for most overrated living violinist go to Maxim Vengerov and Joshua Bell, both of whom seem to think splashy technique is a suitable replacement for music and phrasing, never mind the actual structure of the piece. All I've ever heard from Vengerov is a bunch sensationalist tactics and roughly played notes... admittedly, this does work for Ravel's Zigeunerweisen, but not a whole lot else. As for Joshua Bell, I've heard some very well played notes and some not-so-well-played notes, but no musicality about them. I saw a concert of him playing the Mendelssohn concerto in which he rewrote the first movement cadenza into some ridiculous modern caricature with no contribution to the overall piece as the original cadenza did.

A runner-up vote could go to Midori... fine sound and wonderful technique, some phrasing, but no emotional sense whatsoever. I heard her play Mendelssohn in concert with the Cincinnati Symphony; it was a low point of my concert-going experience.

Let's just face it; the dead violinists are the best ones (and, being a violist, that almost makes me happy).


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## handlebar

World Violist said:


> There are probably three or four violinists alive that I actually like to listen to, and Pinchas Zukerman and Aaron Rosand are the only two that immediately come to mind. Even Perlman often enough just doesn't do it for me, as he occasionally tends to mannerism that compromises the focus on the music. I agree he is a great violinist, and my largely not liking his style is entirely my preference.
> 
> My two votes for most overrated living violinist go to Maxim Vengerov and Joshua Bell, both of whom seem to think splashy technique is a suitable replacement for music and phrasing, never mind the actual structure of the piece. All I've ever heard from Vengerov is a bunch sensationalist tactics and roughly played notes... admittedly, this does work for Ravel's Zigeunerweisen, but not a whole lot else. As for Joshua Bell, I've heard some very well played notes and some not-so-well-played notes, but no musicality about them. I saw a concert of him playing the Mendelssohn concerto in which he rewrote the first movement cadenza into some ridiculous modern caricature with no contribution to the overall piece as the original cadenza did.
> 
> A runner-up vote could go to Midori... fine sound and wonderful technique, some phrasing, but no emotional sense whatsoever. I heard her play Mendelssohn in concert with the Cincinnati Symphony; it was a low point of my concert-going experience.
> 
> Let's just face it; the dead violinists are the best ones (and, being a violist, that almost makes me happy).


While I admit that Bell has done some interesting things and gets a lot of publicity due to his youngish looks (Am I getting old or what? ), he is a good artist and will get (hopefully) better as he ages.I have seen him live a few times and was always impressed.

I agree though that the old and dead violinists just had the heart and mind that seems to have disappeared for the most part. Perhaps it is these old and tired ears?

Jim


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## Taneyev

It's just so, also for my old (but not tired) ears. Now they have almost perfect technique and intonation, are precise and followers of the music to the last point...and cold and with as much human warmth as an ice cube.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

I'm in the 'Love Hilary Hahn' camp.

She's got dazzling technique aplenty, but moreover, her interpretive insight is laser-like: cf., her readings of the Schönberg VC and the Beethoven VC.

The Lady's an artist.

(So sez this critic...)


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## beansdoc

me too. gil shaham's korngold and barber with previn remains my favorite. it's no wonder that album catapulted him to fame.


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## beansdoc

you have quite an ear. i'm still waiting for another legend to come by....


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## teccomin

I am really into Anne-Sophie Mutter. I have both her Bach concerto and Hahn's. The difference is immense! If you are looking for that expressive intensity, you should try Mutter, her interpretation of Romantic period concertos are rich with emotions. Brahms and Sibelius came to mind.


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## PoliteNewYorker

teccomin said:


> I am really into Anne-Sophie Mutter. I have both her Bach concerto and Hahn's. The difference is immense! If you are looking for that expressive intensity, you should try Mutter, her interpretation of Romantic period concertos are rich with emotions. Brahms and Sibelius came to mind.


I was disappointed with her Mendelssohn, which was so highly touted and has been recorded three times. Valid and technically nice, sure, but lacked the expressiveness and depth of say, Menuhin's approach.
I am, however, a fan of her Berg concerto! I would like to see Hahn record the Berg someday, given how nice her Schoenberg is.


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## Marc

Almost all those girls and ladies look like models .... that's suspicious .... 

I'm not a violin 'connaisseur' at all. 
But I think this rather unknown not so modellish looking young lady, Simone Lamsma, is quite good:










I have been to one of her concerts recently (Vivaldi's _Four Seasons_ ) and I thought she had a beautiful tone. Her encore, the Sarabande from Bach's second solo _Partita_, was movingly beautiful.

Here's one disc I have, which I entirely enjoy:


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## Air

Marc said:


> Almost all those girls and ladies look like models .... that's suspicious ....


Well if you think Hahn is not good looking, you are WRONG.  I talked to her (for about one minute, lucky me) after a concert and she was an absolute GODDESS. Her performance of the Tchaikovsky concerto with the SFO, not so much...  (much too weak for my tastes after being accustomed to Oistrakh)

And I got her signature (twice)...


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## jurianbai

Arabella Steinbacher









Patricia Kopatchinskaja









Tanja Becker-Bender









these are violin divas I found in recent magazine.


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## Marc

Air said:


> Well if you think Hahn is not good looking, you are WRONG.  I talked to her (for about one minute, lucky me) after a concert and she was an absolute GODDESS. Her performance of the Tchaikovsky concerto with the SFO, not so much...  (much too weak for my tastes after being accustomed to Oistrakh)


But that's exactly my point: they're all looking like goddesses, but what about their musical skills? What are the most important criteria for selecting and promoting a new (female) classical music star nowadays?


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## handlebar

They would not have made it this far if the talent was non-existent. At least in today's highly critical classical world. Now whether they are master musicians would be a different thing.
Being good looking should never be a detrimental chalk mark against an artist. Sadly, many think just that. If they are beautiful then sex sells and there is nothing else there. Sad indeed.

I must say that Patricia Kopatchinskaja is quite the beauty. Might have to look her name up a bit more.


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## DeusEx

Janine Jansen. I can't think of a better combination of stunning physical and musical beauty. Totally fallen for her >.<

Her rendition of the Tchaikovsky is breathtaking and fresh; it's an incredibly passionate and dynamic performance, yet wonderfully intimate and sensitive at the same time. Her choice of a chamber orchestra (led by Daniel Harding) although at first seemed a bit odd, but imo works out fairly well, paired with her own lyricism and virtuosity.


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## motoboy

Hahn's Burlesque from the Shostakovich Concerto is pretty darned exciting to me. .


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## TWhite

teccomin said:


> I am really into Anne-Sophie Mutter. I have both her Bach concerto and Hahn's. The difference is immense! If you are looking for that expressive intensity, you should try Mutter, her interpretation of Romantic period concertos are rich with emotions. Brahms and Sibelius came to mind.


I don't mind going with you on Anne-Sophie at all, myself. I have her Brahms and Beethoven concerti, and I'm immensely satisfied with them for both her tonal quality and musicianship. Several years ago I was able to see her live in San Francisco in recital performing the Brahms Violin Sonatas, and for me it was just about as good as Chamber music gets.

I've also heard her Berg Violin Concerto, and it moves me very deeply. And as far as showpieces, I have a CD of her performing works by Ravel, Sarasate and others, and the performances just sparkle! I like her a lot.

And though I've only heard Shahan perform the Korngold and Barber Concerti, his recording of them is simply the best I've ever heard.

But Anne-Sophie Mutter is a HUGE favorite of mine.

Tom


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## jurianbai

Actually I think Anne-Sophie Mutter is more strenght in modern piece. She had work with Andre Previn, and I got her Bartok, Stravinsky and Duttileux CD.


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## wouldrichest

Jaime77 said:


> Yep Luke.. I would agree with the empty technicality statement. Some people seem very excited by her but just not me. I have her playing thr Barber Violin Concerto - quite a gorgeous piece and her tone is beautiful at times but... just nothing in the way of effecting me.
> 
> Emiel ... yes! Jansen will be playing Brahms Sonata No.1, Bartok's No.2 and one in G by Beethoven that I didn't know before. I think the Brahms will be passionate and the Bartok wild!


I haven't heard any of Janine Jansen, but I'm no problem with Hilary Hahn. I got her recording playing Spohr and Paganini and I think that's quite good.

Here another young talent to be watched, Chloe Hanslip. Got her recording playing Max Bruch concerto. The same piece also played by another young violinist, Sarah Chang.

__________________
watch free movies online


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## Huilunsoittaja

What country/ethnicity is Hilary Hahn from? I must admit, she looks Finnish.


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## jhansen_violin

Ah..personally, I love Hahn. She appeals to the technician in me. I think she is a clean player who allows the music to do a lot of the talking (nothing overly personal). I think anyone would be hard put to say that she plays anything "incorrectly" musically speaking. For example, I've seen mention of Perlman's and Milstein's Bach on this thread (both very nice recordings), yet I think many people would say not strictly "correct" Bach. 

Of course, this is all opinion, but I would say that Hahn is a violinist's violinist. For me, her Bach is one of the best because the simplicity allows the genius of Bach to shine clearly (and the technical execution is so fine that none of the difficult passages get in the way of this beauty).


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## ChamberNut

It seems Hahn has many 'Naysayers'. Well, I'm definitely not one of them, after hearing her performance of the Sibelius Violin Concerto. Very rich, flat out amazing! 

It will take me a few more listens to decide what I think of the Schoenberg concerto (the work itself, not the performance), which is coupled with the Sibelius.


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## Listener

I like Hilary Hahn. Saw her perform a number of works for piano and violin a few years ago. But my interest is primarily in the baroque, so she could never be my favorite violinist.


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## karenpat

My mum is a great fan of Hilary Hahn but I don't get it. Granted, I don't know anything about violin technique, I think I get a better impression of the player's personality when I can see them play and not just hear them. I like violinists who play with great passion and in the case of Hilary it looks like she's wearing a mask sometimes, she looks like a porcelain doll.
But that's just my opinion...


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## jhar26

Marc said:


> But that's exactly my point: they're all looking like goddesses, but what about their musical skills? What are the most important criteria for selecting and promoting a new (female) classical music star nowadays?


Yes, but that Hilary Hahn isn't a great violinist is definitely not an opinion that is shared by everyone.


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## jhar26

handlebar said:


> They would not have made it this far if the talent was non-existent. At least in today's highly critical classical world. Now whether they are master musicians would be a different thing.
> Being good looking should never be a detrimental chalk mark against an artist. Sadly, many think just that. If they are beautiful then sex sells and there is nothing else there. Sad indeed.


That's true. I think it's a good thing that classical musicians no longer have to be old, fat, bald and/or ugly. :lol:

But seriously, I agree with you. I f you've made it as a soloist in 'real' classical music (as opposed to the crossover stuff from someone like Vanessa-Mae who made it by adding a dance beat to Bach) it's proof that you ARE good. The standard that is required is so high and the competition so fierce that there is no room for mediocrity, no matter how pretty you are.


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## jjfan

Yes, a favorite topic of mine, beautiful violinists and their music. I like Hahn's Bach and Mozart.. Mutter's Brahms and Vivaldi.. Kyung's Mendelssohn and Bruch.. Jansen's Tchaikovsky.

I'll try Julia Fischer and Nicola Benedetti next time.

Happy listening and viewing to all.


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## KJohnson

She does the best Stravinsky I've heard so far and I've been less impressed by her other recordings. Her main competition, Sarah Chang, is great on the Romantic repertoire but anything from Sibelius up, you're left hardly impressed.


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## Ukko

Hahn doesn't have much meat on her. Maybe a more buxom lady would keep you warm.


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## starthrower




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## Couchie

In what sick world does this fail to excite?


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## violin

*Sure you can have your own opinions but I am well entitled to disagree.*

If you've listened to Hilary playing The Lark Ascending by Vaughan Williams and you were not touched by it or you didn't find something special, either 1. You do not appreciate music or 2. You simply have something against Hilary and cannot appreciate her music. That piece in itself is an extraordinarily beautiful piece and her interpretation is exquisite.


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## Moira

violin said:


> If you've listened to Hilary playing The Lark Ascending by Vaughan Williams and you were not touched by it or you didn't find something special, either 1. You do not appreciate music or 2. You simply have something against Hilary and cannot appreciate her music. That piece in itself is an extraordinarily beautiful piece and her interpretation is exquisite.


I was in a performance, I think it may have been a ballet performance, and I was very enthusiastically applauding one of my favourites, when the person next to me asked "Are you her mother?" 

Mind you, I am not Hilary Hahn's mother and I also think she is wonderful.

Now my question, violin, is are YOU Hilary Hahn's mother?


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## Guest

Hilary Hahn rocks....


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## violin

Moira said:


> I was in a performance, I think it may have been a ballet performance, and I was very enthusiastically applauding one of my favourites, when the person next to me asked "Are you her mother?"
> 
> Mind you, I am not Hilary Hahn's mother and I also think she is wonderful.
> 
> Now my question, violin, is are YOU Hilary Hahn's mother?


haha I wish I could have a daughter that amazing! No, I am not her mother, and before anyone decides to take this as I'm insulting my children, I have none


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## jurianbai

(editting my wrong posting)
Base from the CDs I owned, not much complain. Her Sibelius CD are my favorite.


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## Philip

Philip said:


> Hilary Hahn:


I love her


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

IMHO, Hilary Hahn has a fat ugly nose.

Not to say that she _isn't_ a good violinist. She is okay but there are better violinists out there.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> IMHO, Hilary Hahn has a fat ugly nose.
> 
> Not to say that she _isn't_ a good violinist. She is okay but there are better violinists out there.


There are also fatter, uglier noses and that is the most important thing in the world


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## Philip

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> IMHO, Hilary Hahn has a fat ugly nose.


Look who's talking......


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## violin

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> IMHO, Hilary Hahn has a fat ugly nose.
> 
> Not to say that she _isn't_ a good violinist. She is okay but there are better violinists out there.


Typical, you play the viola and you're jealous of people who play real instruments ^.^


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Well here's a better, more attractive violinist:


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## Moira

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Well here's a better, more attractive violinist:


As far as sexual attraction goes, he's more to my taste than Hilary Hahn.  But if I were shelling out bucks to hear a violinist ...


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## Guest

He is more to the Composer's taste as well it seems :lol:


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## MaestroViolinist

Yes! I really like Janine Jansen. I haven't really listened to Hilary Hahn, so I can't really compare them though.

A couple of other composers that are brilliant are Maxim Vengerov, and Vladimir Spivakov. They are awesome! And I also really like Anne-Sophie Mutter! She is great!


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## PetrB

Of course, you do nothing for her because she has heard nothing of you at all

I do understand what you mean, completely, and have a similar reaction to several currently high-profile professionals on the circuit, recording and performing, who to me are 'just players,' where little of anything I would call 'musical' comes out. 

Without naming any of them or 'tearing them a new one' we can rightly assume they are almost complete 'technical' equals. 

What power of sound they have becomes a very different matter, and that is not about brute strength: likewise I think some have an 'extra musical' capacity which is one of a truly great 'power to communicate' which radiates through their instrument when they play, but is not merely a matter of technique. In this, some are truly greater than others. 

I don't think there will ever be an accurate naming of all that accounts for that extra-musical power of communication. Some have it, some have it less, and some seem to barely have it at all.... 'tis a mystery


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## kv466

I would have never jammed with someone as technically proficient as Vassar Clements for an entire afternoon if it wasn't for that 'extra-musical power of communication'. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be able to do a lot of things without it!


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## Guest

PetrB said:


> I don't think there will ever be an accurate naming of all that accounts for that extra-musical power of communication. Some have it, some have it less, and some seem to barely have it at all.... 'tis a mystery


I assume you mean communicate to the audience/listener but to really experience communication between musicians you only have to be close to a St Qt in performance, they communicate nearly 100% through eye contact even with works they know by heart.


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## Ukko

kv466 said:


> I would have never jammed with someone as technically proficient as Vassar Clements for an entire afternoon if it wasn't for that 'extra-musical power of communication'. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be able to do a lot of things without it!


Vassar Clements. I had old recordings of Flatt-Scruggs type bluegrass (I don't want to say 'traditional' because that doesn't mean much) with Clements playing just about as straight as he could stand. When newgrass escaped the garages and got recordings, he turned it loose.

Hoo-haw


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## Vesteralen

I like Hilary Hahn.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^What a surprise. Someone likes Hilary Hahn.


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## Olias

I met her once after a recital. She was unbelievably kind and stayed afterwards for two hours taking pictures and signing autographs even though she had to be on a plane to Europe the next morning. Oh, her playing was amazing too.


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## TrazomGangflow

Hillary Hahn is a good violinist in my opinion but her playing just doesn't jump out at me as spectacular or very unique. I enjoy a few of her recordings (such as the Mozart piano/violin sonatas) but usually I would choose to listen to someone else.


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## Abracadabra

*Hilary is Awesome*

I haven't read the entire thread, nor am I familiar with other young female violinists. But I have my story to tell about Hilary Hahn.

I got into playing the violin quite late in life (at age 57). I was immediately attracted to the Bach partitas and sonatas for solo violin. I started to dream about being able to play them myself, although, clearly they were far beyond my reach as a novice violinist.

None the less, I went out and bought the CD of every great violinist who ever played these Bach pieces. Among them were Milstein, Menuhin, Pearlman, Heifetz, etc. You name them, I probably listened to them. I was fascinated by all the different styles and nuances. I enjoyed all of these performances, yet at the same time they were all "missing" something. I was searching for someone who might play these as I would play them (if I could play the violin). In other words, I can hear in my mind how I would like for these pieces to sound. But I just wasn't capable of producing that sound on the instrument myself.

Then one day I saw a cheap CD on sale. It was Hilary Hahn playing the Bach partitas and sonatas. I picked up the CD thinking to myself, "It might be fun to hear how a young girl amateur" plays these classical pieces.

To my utter shock and amazement, when I listened to her play it was precisely the sound I had imagined in my mind. WOW! This girl has the same musical ideas that I have. That's unbelievable!

Plus she has absolute wonderful technique and has mastered the instrument as far as I'm concerned. In fact, as far as I'm concerned she easily blows all these other "Great Violinists" clean out of the water. At such a young age she is able to outplay all the greats (IMHO) and actually put passion and feeling into these otherwise mechanical pieces.

So that's my story. I think she's AWESOME. I give her an A++ in musicality, technicality, and passion.

Now, having said that, I haven't really listened to these other young lady violinists that have been mentioned in this thread. So I can't say whether they are doing a better job than Hilary. But as far as I'm concerned Hilary had already blown away the "greats" even by the time she was barely in her 20's.

So that's a pretty awesome accomplishment I think.

Anyone who says that she isn't playing with feeling must themselves be "cold" IMHO.

I don't see how you can not feel the passion in Hilary's playing. I suppose that could depend on what you have compared it with, and/or what you expect to hear. Her passion and emotions came through for me like a floodgate after having listened to all the recordings by the the so-called "Greats".


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## Guest

Here Here abracadabra well said.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I prefer Joshua Bell.


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## Moira

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I prefer Joshua Bell.


I can't wait until I hear him live again in August in Johannesburg.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I find Joshua Bell more attractive than Hilary Hahn.


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## Couchie

Philip said:


> Look who's talking......


Oh nose he didn't!


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## Philip

Couchie said:


> Oh nose he didn't!


Muzzle you always try to be funny?


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I find Joshua Bell more attractive than Hilary Hahn.


 Haa, so you are a woman! in that case you make a the sense


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Andante said:


> Haa, so you are a woman! in that case you make a the sense


I am no woman!


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## Ukko

Andante said:


> Haa, so you are a woman! in that case you make a the sense




JB is obviously prettier than HH, though perhaps less beautiful.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I am no woman!


Yet you find a man more attractive ?? *oooops I am on dangerous ground, sorry your choice entirely*


Hilltroll72 said:


> JB is obviously prettier than HH, though perhaps less beautiful.


but not attractive except to the opposite sex, Well I would take Hillary any day given the chance :tiphat:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Andante said:


> Yet you find a man more attractive ?? *oooops I am on dangerous ground, sorry your choice entirely*


I was joking.


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## Philip

Andante said:


> Yet you find a man more attractive ??


A man who cannot appreciate the beauty of another man, regardless of his own sexual orientation, is not being honest with himself.

Dr Philip


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I was joking.


Of course you were.



Philip said:


> A man who cannot appreciate the beauty of another man, regardless of his own sexual orientation, is not being honest with himself.
> 
> Dr Philip


Well I can tell a skinny one from a muscle endowed one but the thought that they are beautiful never comes into it I just can't think as a woman does, so to me they are just another man and I would not have it any other way, I am hard wired to look on other men as possible competitors and woman as things of beauty with unfathomable minds.


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## Ukko

Andante said:


> Of course you were.
> 
> Well I can tell a skinny one from a muscle endowed one but the thought that they are beautiful never comes into it I just can't think as a woman does, so to me they are just another man and I would not have it any other way, I am hard wired to look on other men as possible competitors and woman as things of beauty with unfathomable minds.




Attractive - pretty - handsome - beautiful... the Ancient Greeks seemed to have no problem applying these adjectives.

But even the Greeks among us are not Ancient; now there are non-PC appellations. I am willing to apply 'pretty' and 'handsome' without sexual preference. The qualities of a beautiful person are mostly other than physical - and 'attractive' is an obviously subjective perception.

Both JB and HH clean up good. On the other hand, I do not.


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## Philip

Couchie said:


> Oh nose he didn't!


Plus, snout really an insult in the first place.


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## science

I don't care who's prettier, both Hahn and Bell are phenomenal musicians.


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## Guest

I'll drink to that


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## Philip

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I find Joshua Bell more attractive than Hilary Hahn.


Whatever... snoot yourself. Personally, adenoids what you're talking about. But taking olfactors into consideration, snuff really fair to say such things. Schnoz a bad player, nares he. Whether you like one or the odour, whiffout them the violin world snuffer. What they've accomplished in their careers is no smell feat. I proboscis that we make peace, beakcause arguing over superficial things is nostrilly a good idea.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

You guys nose a good deal of puns



Hilltroll72 said:


> Those abominations aren't puns.


EDIT: You guys nose a good deal of _abominations_


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## Ukko

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You guys nose a good deal of puns


Those abominations aren't puns.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Oh my god, Hilary Hahn is incredible!!!


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Oh my god, Hilary Hahn is incredible!!!


Agreed, fantastic and ....as a bonus quite lovely.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Now, about her actual violin playing...... 

Excellent, technically flawless, but a bit quiet. Her tone is nice, but there's nothing special about it and she needs to play quite a bit louder at some points in concertos that she plays as I feel that the orchestra drowns her out a bit. She's not the best violinist in the world, but she's a good one!


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Now, about her actual violin playing......
> 
> she needs to play quite a bit louder at some points in concertos that she plays as I feel that the orchestra drowns her out a bit.


In that case blame the Conductor not the soloist.

I should add his is the final responsibility.


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## Ukko

Andante said:


> In that case blame the Conductor not the soloist.
> 
> I should add his is the final responsibility.


In 'pure live' performance seems like you must be right. In the recording studio, the engineer ought to be able to make adjustments. In professionally recorded 'live' performance, the engineer may be stuck with the mic placements made beforehand, where a crank-up affects more than is desirable.

[If the above reads like I know whereof I speak, it's accidental.]


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I will buy Hilary Hahn CDs and to hang on my wall and buy older recording by some of the "great violinists" (Perlman, Stern etc.) to listen to.


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## Taneyev

Prokofieff first IMO nobody can beat Oistrakh:

With Kondrashin and Moscow Radio SO
With Yuri Temirkanov and Moscow PH.S.O.
With Kubelik and Prague SO

Yes, as you suspect, I'm and Oistrakh's fan.


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## Vesteralen

No wonder she left you....


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## violin

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I find Joshua Bell more attractive than Hilary Hahn.
> 
> You may say so, but who would you prefer to watch? Hilary surely.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

violin said:


> ComposerOfAvantGarde said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find Joshua Bell more attractive than Hilary Hahn.
> 
> You may say so, but who would you prefer to watch? Hilary surely.
> 
> 
> 
> Nigel Kennedy surely.
Click to expand...


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## BenL

*Heifetz is "Cold" too...*



Jaime77 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I just wanted to mention that next week I am going to hear Janine Jansen in concert and I have been thinking about some of the other young lady violinists around. One that jumps out is Hilary Hahn. It is interesting that some musicians excite us with their passion or particular frequency of expression, if you could call it that. Whereas others just don't seem to touch us at all. I use Hahn and Jansen as cases in point. I have been moved by Jansen a few times and I cannot even explain it. Hahn however has failed in anything she has played to either excite me or move me.
> 
> I wonder if anyone a) feels the same about Hilary Hahn and Janine Jansen. Both, clearly brilliant violinists of the younger generation. This has nothing to do with technique.
> 
> b) can think of other performers that just don't effect them on an emotional level at all inspite of high praise and so on. Conversely maybe a performer that always moves you springs to mind?
> 
> No disrespect intended towards Hilary btw. This is a very personal thing it seems.
> 
> Thanks


Just close your eyes and listen. Her performance is intense and the way she moves the bow is focused. Personally, I think her Bach is BRILLIANT.


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## Vaneyes

I haven't met her.


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## Dongiovanni

I like both Jansen and Hahn. They are both exceptionally gifted musicians. I have been to Jansen in concert many times. Tomorrow, as a matter of fact, I will go to my first concert with Hahn in Eindhoven, where she will play sonatas by Faure and Corelli, and, Bach chaconne ! The program was changed, Bach was not on the program at first. I'm delighted she will play the Chaconne. Her interpretation that I know of the CD is really superb. So I'm curious to hear how she will play if after all those years.

I also noticed that there are many tickets available. So people, get your ticket now !

http://www.muziekgebouweindhoven.nl/detail/1013/hilary-hahn-viool


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## kindred

*Hahn's developing sound?*

My first post here. An interesting thread, since I enjoy both ends of the sound spectrum, for some reason which I hope isn't poorly discriminating taste. My impression is that some soloists seek their voice mainly through the music, and others seek the music through their own voice. I'm sure that isn't quite right, but I'd place Hahn, and James Ehnes, among the first group.

I've heard Ms. Hahn live on four separate occasions in the past few years, and am among those who are moved by her playing - most recordings as well. But I can, for instance, here a richer expression when listening to Victoria Mullova's or Gil Shaham's Brahms, just to speak of two of her peers. Both of these violinists, to my ear, approach Hahn's profoundly clear intonation, but until lately have culled more color from romantic pieces. I'd like to offer a recent televised recording of Ms. Hahn which suggests her color tone may be getting broader or more nuanced, approaching that of Shaham and Mullova. And an interesting comment by the late Joseph Gingold, if I remember clearly, about Heifetz's beautiful overtones partly emerging from profound intonation, reminds me somewhat of Hahn's playing, although I know that comparison may break down at some point.

Oistrakh's recording of the Glazunov is my favorite, but this comes close for me:


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## SimonNZ

I'd be interested to know if the Hilary Hahn haters from five years back or even two years back still feel that way about her, as in recent times she's become one of the great champions of young composers and has acted as ambassador for new music and composers in a great many and very cool ways - on top of being a musician of staggering talent.


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## stevens

SimonNZ said:


> I'd be interested to know if the Hilary Hahn haters from five years back or even two years back still feel that way about her, as in recent times she's become one of the great champions of young composers and has acted as ambassador for new music and composers in a great many and very cool ways - on top of being a musician of staggering talent.


I think lots of people hate Hilary Hahn because she is

1) A woman 
2) young
3) very good
This view even affects other great young female musicians


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## StlukesguildOhio

I think it has more to do with the fact that she is very successful. There are always those who assume success equates to having sold out... or never having been that good to start with when the reality is that popularity has nothing to do with artistic merit... for or against. Look at Anne Sophie Mutter and Elizabeth Wallfisch... both equally as talented... but rarely the target of the same vitriol as poor Ms. Hahn.


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## stevens

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> IMHO, Hilary Hahn has a fat ugly nose.
> 
> Not to say that she _isn't_ a good violinist. She is okay but there are better violinists out there.


Now, show us YOUR nose...and show us YOUR violinplaying.


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## Dongiovanni

Dongiovanni said:


> I like both Jansen and Hahn. They are both exceptionally gifted musicians. I have been to Jansen in concert many times. Tomorrow, as a matter of fact, I will go to my first concert with Hahn in Eindhoven, where she will play sonatas by Faure and Corelli, and, Bach chaconne ! The program was changed, Bach was not on the program at first. I'm delighted she will play the Chaconne. Her interpretation that I know of the CD is really superb. So I'm curious to hear how she will play if after all those years.
> 
> I also noticed that there are many tickets available. So people, get your ticket now !
> 
> http://www.muziekgebouweindhoven.nl/detail/1013/hilary-hahn-viool


Thanks for the likes, it was good to revisit this topic again. So that concert was really impressive, and Hahn played the Chaconne with even more passion than on her CD (where she was still in her teens), technically stuning, just a single vilolin in a big concert hall, but the effect of a complete orchestra. When she finished there was a silence, when everyone just jumped up from their seats and cheered as loud as they could.

Comparing her Chaconne on CD with Jansen, Fischer, Ibragimova she is #1 for me.


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## Kilgore Trout

The fact that Hilary Hahn's playing leave someone cold doesn't strike me as a surprise. Her playing is cold, on first approach at least. Someone said that her playing wasn't "spectacular or very unique". There have been talks about "expression". But that is not at all what Hahn's playing is about. It's about control and precision.
She has an incredible control of the expression on the micro-level. That is why, in the big picture, her lines might appears flat, cold, without big gestures or a lot of expressive marks. It's not obvious. The stuff is happening _inside_ the line, in the detail. She works on subtle variations of tone, bow, color, intensity, vibrato, almost on every note, building the phrases in the details, while leaving the impression that she doesn't do anything at all (while she's actually doing a lot, much more than most of the "expressive" violonists who focus on the big gestures). 
She has a tremendous technique, but not a spectacular one. Her technique is about focus and concentration, and it requires the same attitude from the audience (even if I guess a lot of people like Hahn for her beautiful overall tone).

It's not extrovert, it doesn't bring you the feelings on a plate. I do agree that some pieces of music needs a little more spice that Hahn is ready to bring, but there aren't many musiciens nowadays who are as good as what they do as Hahn.


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## stevens

Well, other people find her playing exellent. This discussion can go on forever. Its like a discussion about what tastes the best apples or pears. Its pointless


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## Morimur

I'd previously stated that her playing didn't do much for me, but I've since reversed my opinion. She's a remarkable technician with an icy tone that is perfect for avant-garde works. She's a fan of Richard Barrett, who most of you don't know or don't seem to care for.


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## hpowders

Like most of the younger crop of players, "remarkable technician" fits the bill. The problem is none of these folks has any recognizable personality, the kind of playing that made Heifetz', Milstein's and Stern's recognizable.

The younger players all sound the same to me.


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## Kilgore Trout

Yes, to you. Hahn, Jansen and Ibragimova have little in common and don't sound the same at all. I would recognize them on a few notes (especially Hahn and Ibragimova, who both have probably some of the most distinct violin sounds ever).

In the end, you can like Hahn's or whoever's playing or not, but some of the claims in this thread are absurd and backed up by vagueness and little actual hearing of these musicians.


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## kindred

Kilgore Trout said:


> The fact that Hilary Hahn's playing leave someone cold doesn't strike me as a surprise. Her playing is cold, on first approach at least. Someone said that her playing wasn't "spectacular or very unique". There have been talks about "expression". But that is not at all what Hahn's playing is about. It's about control and precision.
> She has an incredible control of the expression on the micro-level. That is why, in the big picture, her lines might appears flat, cold, without big gestures or a lot of expressive marks. It's not obvious. The stuff is happening _inside_ the line, in the detail. She works on subtle variations of tone, bow, color, intensity, vibrato, almost on every note, building the phrases in the details, while leaving the impression that she doesn't do anything at all (while she's actually doing a lot, much more than most of the "expressive" violonists who focus on the big gestures).
> She has a tremendous technique, but not a spectacular one. Her technique is about focus and concentration, and it requires the same attitude from the audience (even if I guess a lot of people like Hahn for her beautiful overall tone).
> 
> It's not extrovert, it doesn't bring you the feelings on a plate. I do agree that some pieces of music needs a little more spice that Hahn is ready to bring, but there aren't many musiciens nowadays who are as good as what they do as Hahn.


Thanks for your description; given it, what do you think of her Glazunov?


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## kindred

Perhaps for another thread . . . . but I'm left wondering what goes into a violin sound that verges on the human voice. I know it involves various elements of phrasing, but find it hard to believe this is merely a matter of complex technique. Bonislaw Huberman and Szymon Goldberg - to name just two - had this amazing singing quality, as did Kreisler. Josef Gingold, too. I don't hear it in Heifetz so much (which isn't a complaint, btw), but do in D. Oistrakh and Grumiaux at times. I hear it in Shaham, and at times in F.P. Zimmermann. Our concertmaster in Dallas, Alexander Kerr, has this singing quality. But there are other sounds I love, such as L. Batiashvili's, although it isn't this singing sound so much as beautiful intonation with passion. 

Is there something lost in this kind of singing that so moves us we don't notice?


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## hpowders

Check out the vibrato. Heifetz' was very fast which may be why you don't find his playing emulating "singing". Nobody can sing with that kind of high velocity vibrato.


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## kindred

hpowders said:


> Check out the vibrato. Heifetz' was very fast which may be why you don't find his playing emulating "singing". Nobody can sing with that kind of high velocity vibrato.


Yes, and when he did slow down, such as with his famous Bruch recording, it was an especially beautiful sound. Itzhak Pearlman said, as I recall, that Heifetz tended to mic very close-up during recordings, whereas in a live performance the audience could hear his sound unfold, and that it was as rich as it was clear and powerful.

So perhaps some pieces leave more room for "singing," although not every performer gives us this, such as with the Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn VCs.


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## nightscape

I'm not particularly in love with Hahn or against her. It's one recording to the next. Love her Elgar, Hidgon and Tchaikovsky though.



jurianbai said:


> For Bach concerto 1041 to 1043, both Hillary Hahn and Julia Fischer recorded exactly identical CD. I've listened to both but can't tell which one is better, I think no such thing maybe.]


The correct answer is Fischer on those recordings.


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## Vesteralen

nightscape said:


> I'm not particularly in love with Hahn or against her. It's one recording to the next. Love her Elgar, Hidgon and Tchaikovsky though.
> 
> The correct answer is Fischer on those recordings.


I was disappointed with both of them. Of all my collection of Hahn and Fischer discs, their Bach concerti sit in the bottom. They both seemed to be trying to play them as fast as possible. Technically impressive, but not something I want to return to often. Bach shouldn't be played romantically, but there's something to be said for letting the music breathe a little.

That much being said, I kind of agree with nightscape - if these were the only two Bach VC discs available, I'd take Fischer.


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## stevens

"Hilary Hahn leaves me cold"

To all those grumpy old internet haters and grumpy old boring men, I would say: Show us how to play a violin! Publish YOUR recordings here so we can compare you agianst Hilary Hahns playing! Would be really really nice to hear!!


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## nightscape

Vesteralen said:


> That much being said, I kind of agree with nightscape - if these were the only two Bach VC discs available, I'd take Fischer.


My answer was based on that understanding as well, between the two. Have you heard Rachel Podger's recording? I like that one a lot too.


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## Vesteralen

nightscape said:


> My answer was based on that understanding as well, between the two. Have you heard Rachel Podger's recording? I like that one a lot too.


Yes. I have that one, and it is currently my recording of choice.


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## kindred

Vesteralen said:


> Yes. I have that one, and it is currently my recording of choice.


If you all are referring to Hahn and Fischer's recordings of the Bach Sonatas and Partitas, those were made back in 96 or 97, and in 05, so quite awhile back to evaluate how they play now. But yes, a faster pace than Rachel Podger's on a period instrument. I also prefer the slower pace; it lets me settle in more easily - like being pulled into the spacing of the music in a more contemplative way.

But here is a recent live performance of Hahn playing the Sonata #2 in A minor, Andante; Podger's recording of the same, and both with a similar tempo, and lastly a 2010 live recording of Julia Fischer playing the Partita #2 :


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## starthrower

Kilgore Trout said:


> The fact that Hilary Hahn's playing leave someone cold doesn't strike me as a surprise. Her playing is cold, on first approach at least. Someone said that her playing wasn't "spectacular or very unique". There have been talks about "expression". But that is not at all what Hahn's playing is about. It's about control and precision.
> She has an incredible control of the expression on the micro-level. That is why, in the big picture, her lines might appears flat, cold, without big gestures or a lot of expressive marks. It's not obvious. The stuff is happening _inside_ the line, in the detail. She works on subtle variations of tone, bow, color, intensity, vibrato, almost on every note, building the phrases in the details, while leaving the impression that she doesn't do anything at all (while she's actually doing a lot, much more than most of the "expressive" violonists who focus on the big gestures).
> She has a tremendous technique, but not a spectacular one. Her technique is about focus and concentration, and it requires the same attitude from the audience (even if I guess a lot of people like Hahn for her beautiful overall tone).
> 
> It's not extrovert, it doesn't bring you the feelings on a plate. I do agree that some pieces of music needs a little more spice that Hahn is ready to bring, but there aren't many musiciens nowadays who are as good as what they do as Hahn.


A very perceptive analysis! She's definitely not the Leonard Bernstein of the violin. More like Boulez. And she appears to be a very likeable personality off stage. She produces her YouTube channel herself, and she's very approachable to her fans. She has a sweet and down to earth disposition that complements her keen intelligence and articulate communication skills. And this all contributes to her fabulous success.


----------

