# Pines of Rome, brass



## Marshall (Apr 20, 2008)

Ok well...I've been on a huge Respighi kick lately, and (since I havn't really listened to any since I was about twelve) I've been noticing a lot of things that my previously un-trained ears never caught before.

The one thing that I've noticed and havn't been able to figure out is in the fourth movement of Pines. After the orchestration has really opened up in to a really fanare-like, bold, brassy, and in this section even sometimes even harsh, there is some sort of brass echo going on. There are some really subdued in volume, but extremely loud in intensity (as in, having a lot of edge and front on the notes) that plays a two-beat figure that is then echoed, or rather repeated with more emphasis, in the trumpets. 

In my recording (Bernstein, NY Phil, they're bonus tracs on a Mussorgsky cd with Pictures At an Exhibition and Night on Bald Mountain) it sounds like they're off-stage trumpets...not in the concert hall like the Verdi requiem, but placed behind the shell (like the vocalists in Holst's "Neptune").

I know this piece calls for six(ish?) ancient Roman war horns to be in this piece and he (Respighi) expected these to be played on saxophone and flugelhorn (correct me if I'm wrong on this). Is this the part that was written for these war horns?

For those of you with this recording, it's at 4:38 that this happens...for those of you without it, it's right at the final key change into Bb major.

I would normally go to consult a score for something like this, but the library in my suburb doesn't have a score section and I don't have time to get to the one at the local university or the one downtown...so thanks in advance to any theories or educated information.


----------



## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

ask your question at trumpetherald.com & you'll get mucho data.
as i recall, there are some off stage parts. some older recordings do not use them.
reiner/chicago seems to make all the parts clear, try that recording.

luck
dj


----------



## BAWIG05 (May 14, 2008)

There should indeed be offstage brass, like in Mahler's 8th etc. 

Reiner gets everything right, but Muti comes pretty close too.


----------



## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

BAWIG05 said:


> There should indeed be offstage brass, like in Mahler's 8th etc.
> 
> Reiner gets everything right, but Muti comes pretty close too.


i have both!!!


----------



## tutto (Apr 11, 2007)

here is a whole set, from bass to soprano of these conical brass instruments, plus a few trumpets, trombones, tuba and six horns, I guess. we, SF used first of this "ottoni" player of stage...

reiner, can't belive, 100 years ago, after Budimpesta, where he studied, he came to Ljubljana, but, people as they are here, kicked his butt soon


----------



## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I remember the piece being performed at The Proms one year and I can attest that there are offstage Horns featured in several parts of 'Pines'. They Albert Hall also put on a light show as in a rock concert for a few performances . That was really cool! (I think it was 1986).
Bit of a Respighi fan meself like!


----------



## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

david johnson said:


> i have both!!!


You are lucky I think Reiner will do for me.


----------



## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

Andante said:


> You are lucky I think Reiner will do for me.


Been meaning to give that one a listen... I can't get over my recording with Mariss Jansons right now.


----------



## BAWIG05 (May 14, 2008)

Lorin Maazel with the Cleveland Orchestra is another good choice, the discmate "Roman Festivals" is magnificantly played. 

I hear Rudolf Kempe (Best known for Strauss) is a good one, although why it's coupled with Chopin beats me.

Finally, for those of us who like historical things, Toscanini still sounds very good.


----------



## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Not saxophones but SaxHORNS (like tenor horn, baritone - they're more or less Saxhorns). Saxophones would just sound WEIRD!

I like Muti's Philadephia set - clear and musical.


----------

