# First Round: Che Puro Ciel. Baker and Blythe



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Three rounds of heavenly music starting with two video performances




*Gluck - Orfeo ed Euridice / Baker, Speiser, Gale, Leppard, Glyndebourne Opera*
Elisabeth Speiser (Actor), Janet Baker (Actor), Raymond Leppard (Director) 




14,214 views Nov 7, 2012 "Che puro ciel" from Ch. Gluck's "Orpheo" Stephanie Blythe - James Levine MET 2009


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Baker, Baker, Baker.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

LIke Callas singing Medea or Schwarzkopf in the Vier letzte Lieder, this is one of those pieces where I find it almost impossible to separate the music from the sound of the singer's voice in it. Baker sings this with such a sense of wonder and awe that I doubt anyone will match her. I don't get that from Blythe at all.

A very easy win for Baker.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> LIke Callas singing Medea or Schwarzkopf in the Vier letzte Lieder, this is one of those pieces where I find it almost impossible to separate the music from the sound of the singer's voice in it. Baker sings this with such a sense of wonder and awe that I doubt anyone will match her. I don't get that from Blythe at all.
> 
> A very easy win for Baker.


Nevermind.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I planned this wrong and started out with Baker. I should consider scrapping the rest of the contest.


Ony two of us have commented so far. Others might feel differently. You worry too much, John.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Ony two of us have commented so far. Others might feel differently. You worry too much, John.


You should meet my sister LOL. She was a wonderful singer but her great talent was worrying. Thank you! They are all top notch.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

For a soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) to get my vote and to merit a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording, she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check...

No offense intended, but I'm only as good as the materials that I have to work with.

If you're going to insist on sacrificing looks for talent, I wouldn't expect much of anything even remotely revelatory from me.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> For a soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) to get my vote and to merit a full well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording, she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check...
> 
> No offense intended, but I'm only as good as the materials that I have to work with.
> 
> If you're going to insist on sacrificing looks for talent, I wouldn't expect much of anything particularly revelatory from me.


Don't bother with Wagnerian sopranos then LOL


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Both sing beautifully, but I prefer Baker.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

All the recordings of Orfeo I know are sung by higher voices, even tenors (I eschew words like "pitch" in order to prevent myself from mistakes in something out of my education and work). A lower voice of Miss Blythe is probably what I would like to get in this opera. Miss Baker sang gorgeous, but left me in colder feelings.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> All the recordings of Orfeo I know are sung by higher voices, even tenors (I eschew words like "pitch" in order to prevent myself from mistakes in something out of my education and work). A lower voice of Miss Blythe is probably what I was scares of in this opera. Miss Baker sang gorgeous, but left me in colder feelings.


English fuzzy on "what I was scares of in this opera". I know it is not your first language. Can you say this a different way perhaps.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I meant "I got short of" Or "I would like to get".
I've corrected it. Sometimes I mix languages unpremeditatedly, especially after a working day, and t9 makes it worse.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> I meant "I got short of" Or "I would like to get"


The second makes sense. Blythe was amazing live. Her voice was effortlessly enormous and seamless throughout her range.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

The first version with Baker sounded more airy. The instruments and conducting contributed to it - they differed from the second version somehow. 
The version with Blythe sounded more baroque, meaning both more "old fashioned" and also more opulent. 
I chose airy.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> For a soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) to get my vote and to merit a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording, she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check...
> 
> No offense intended, but I'm only as good as the materials that I have to work with.
> 
> If you're going to insist on sacrificing looks for talent, I wouldn't expect much of anything even remotely revelatory from me.


If you are trying to say that Stephanie Blythe is fat, I agree that in this case it is reflected in the voice. I said "opulent", but whatever. I wasn't looking at her, I followed the libretto, only later I noticed this visual aspect. The heavy feeling of the aria doesn't match this mystical situation.

( But it is all meant as the comparison of the two versions. If singer like Blythe came to my town, I would rush to see her ! )


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BBSVK said:


> *If you are trying to say that Stephanie Blythe is fat, I agree that in this case it is reflected in the voice. I said "opulent", but whatever. I wasn't looking at her, I followed the libretto, only later I noticed this visual aspect. The heavy feeling of the aria doesn't match this mystical situation.*


You're completely misreading my post and interpreting it in a manner in which it was never intended to be taken. The sole intent of any statements made by me was to echo the post written by Tsaraslondon in reference to only two people having made comments at that particular point in the thread as he attempted to reassure SOF that he was indeed worrying too much about the lack of responses received thus far.

My post was intended to also allay John's concern by advising him, with clearly humorous intent, that unless I myself personally found the vocalist in *any* of his soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) contests to be physically attractive regardless of actual talent, that neither he nor the other participants within these threads should expect "a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording".

The section of the post which reads "she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check" was not in any way directed towards either Janet Baker or Stephanie Blythe in particular - It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating remark directed towards my own obvious lack of any real or even imaginary expertise whatsoever in regards to judging these contests on the merits of the quality of the vocalists themselves and was instead meant to be a humorous expression of the criteria that I myself use to evaluate these contests.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> You're completely misreading my post and interpreting it in a manner in which it was never intended to be taken. The sole intent of any statements made by me was to echo the post written by Tsaraslondon in reference to only two people having made comments at that particular point in the thread as he attempted to reassure SOF that he was indeed worrying too much about the lack of responses received thus far.
> 
> My post was intended to also allay John's concern by advising him, with clearly humorous intent, that unless I myself personally found the vocalist in *any* of his soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) contests to be physically attractive regardless of actual talent, that neither he nor the other participants within these threads should expect "a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording".
> 
> The section of the post which reads "she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check" was not in any way directed towards either Janet Baker or Stephanie Blythe in particular - It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating remark directed towards my own obvious lack of any real or even imaginary expertise whatsoever in regards to judging these contests on the merits of the quality of the vocalists themselves and was instead meant to be a humorous expression of the criteria that I myself use to evaluate these contests.


I think Blythe has a really attractive cherubic face and enjoy looking at her in Orfeo, but admittedly I am not heterosexual so that might make a difference. People didn't like her in Carmen because of her huge size but It didn't bother me as she sang beautifully and inhabited the part.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> You're completely misreading my post and interpreting it in a manner in which it was never intended to be taken. The sole intent of any statements made by me was to echo the post written by Tsaraslondon in reference to only two people having made comments at that particular point in the thread as he attempted to reassure SOF that he was indeed worrying too much about the lack of responses received thus far.
> 
> My post was intended to also allay John's concern by advising him, with clearly humorous intent, that unless I myself personally found the vocalist in *any* of his soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) contests to be physically attractive regardless of actual talent, that neither he nor the other participants within these threads should expect "a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording".
> 
> The section of the post which reads "she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check" was not in any way directed towards either Janet Baker or Stephanie Blythe in particular - It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating remark directed towards my own obvious lack of any real or even imaginary expertise whatsoever in regards to judging these contests on the merits of the quality of the vocalists themselves and was instead meant to be a humorous expression of the criteria that I myself use to evaluate these contests.


Having to explain one's jokes is like having to rub salt in a self-inflicted wound. I sympathize. Drop by and have some milk and cookies (sorry, I don't keep alcohol in the house).


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> You're completely misreading my post and interpreting it in a manner in which it was never intended to be taken. The sole intent of any statements made by me was to echo the post written by Tsaraslondon in reference to only two people having made comments at that particular point in the thread as he attempted to reassure SOF that he was indeed worrying too much about the lack of responses received thus far.
> 
> My post was intended to also allay John's concern by advising him, with clearly humorous intent, that unless I myself personally found the vocalist in *any* of his soprano (or mezzo, I'm not fussy) contests to be physically attractive regardless of actual talent, that neither he nor the other participants within these threads should expect "a full length well-written deeply insightful analysis of her vocal technique, performance and subsequent recording".
> 
> The section of the post which reads "she needs to look as if she has talent - She needs to be able to tick off each of the boxes - Attractive - Check - Ample bosom - Check - Shapely bottom - Check - Ankles thinner than calves - Check" was not in any way directed towards either Janet Baker or Stephanie Blythe in particular - It was clearly intended to be a self-deprecating remark directed towards my own obvious lack of any real or even imaginary expertise whatsoever in regards to judging these contests on the merits of the quality of the vocalists themselves and was instead meant to be a humorous expression of the criteria that I myself use to evaluate these contests.


Haha, I always write something weird here and retrospectively try to find a support in other comments. Well, I was wrong this time. But at least I know it now !
Thanx for explaining


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Does anybody except me hear any difference in the instruments ? Maybe one version is with period instruments and the other with contemporary, or one orchestra is bigger than the other, or just one or two instruments are replaced. I have no idea, it just doesn't sound like the same thing.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Does anybody except me hear any difference in the instruments ? Maybe one version is with period instruments and the other with contemporary, or one orchestra is bigger than the other, or just one or two instruments are replaced. I have no idea, it just doesn't sound like the same thing.


Neither uses a “period instrument” ensemble, though Raymond Leppard, conductor of the Baker performance, was a Baroque music specialist and enthusiast.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *I think Blythe has a really attractive cherubic face and enjoy looking at her in Orfeo, but admittedly I am not heterosexual so that might make a difference. * People didn't like her in Carmen because of her huge size but It didn't bother me as she sang beautifully and inhabited the part.


It really had nothing to do with either Baker or Blythe and their relative attractiveness or lack of - I wasn't even aware of what thread I was on or who was even competing when I posted that joke as I had six different pages open and was moving from one to the other - With hindsight, I wish that I had posted it in one of the tenor contests instead of one which featured women as I can see how someone would misinterpret the intent of the statement by thinking that it was directed towards them. I had a mother, have a wife, and five sisters - I genuinely like women - Not in the "no kidding, straight guy" sense (although that is indeed true) but just in and of themselves and I have far too much respect for each of them to ever be the kind of person - and most specifically the kind of man - who would denigrate, demean, or diminish any aspect of a woman's life or being just for the sake of getting a cheap laugh.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Woodduck said:


> Having to explain one's jokes is like having to rub salt in a self-inflicted wound. I sympathize. Drop by and have some milk and cookies (sorry, I don't keep alcohol in the house).


My grateful thanks for the kind words and much to most anyone's surprise, I would gladly accept the offer of milk and cookies if they were accompanied by lively conversation and a listening session in which you would explain what I should be listening for because quite frankly, despite my best efforts, I'm still not hearing what everyone else is... In many ways I am indeed stereotypically Irish - wildly temperamental, easily provoked, quick to anger, eager to fight, willing to hold a grudge forever, completely unable to tell even the simplest of tales without wildly embellishing them for dramatic effect - but I play against type by not actually being much of a drinker - glass of wine for dinner is about it - so milk is fine but I would much prefer to add the milk to a nice cuppa if it's all the same to you -


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Much as I love Stephanie Blythe I cannot imagine anyone singing this aria anymore purely and delicately than Baker.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Much as I love Stephanie Blythe I cannot imagine anyone singing this aria anymore purely and delicately than Baker.


I prefer Blythe in Verdi and Wagner where she doesn't have to hold back all the time.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> My grateful thanks for the kind words and much to most anyone's surprise, I would gladly accept the offer of milk and cookies if they were accompanied by lively conversation and a listening session in which you would explain what I should be listening for because quite frankly, despite my best efforts, I'm still not hearing what everyone else is... In many ways I am indeed stereotypically Irish - wildly temperamental, easily provoked, quick to anger, eager to fight, willing to hold a grudge forever, completely unable to tell even the simplest of tales without wildly embellishing them for dramatic effect - but I play against type by not actually being much of a drinker - glass of wine for dinner is about it - so milk is fine but I would much prefer to add the milk to a nice cuppa if it's all the same to you -


Tea or coffee? In the latter you have a choice of French, Peruvian, Viennese or Sumatran.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> It really had nothing to do with either Baker or Blythe and their relative attractiveness or lack of - I wasn't even aware of what thread I was on or who was even competing when I posted that joke as I had six different pages open and was moving from one to the other - With hindsight, I wish that I had posted it in one of the tenor contests instead of one which featured women as I can see how someone would misinterpret the intent of the statement by thinking that it was directed towards them. I had a mother, have a wife, and five sisters - I genuinely like women - Not in the "no kidding, straight guy" sense (although that is indeed true) but just in and of themselves and I have far too much respect for each of them to ever be the kind of person - and most specifically the kind of man - who would denigrate, demean, or diminish any aspect of a woman's life or being just for the sake of getting a cheap laugh.


Oh, how much I repent now ! Perhaps I should addopt your standards myself. I'll improve 😇.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> My grateful thanks for the kind words and much to most anyone's surprise, I would gladly accept the offer of milk and cookies if they were accompanied by lively conversation and a listening session in which you would explain what I should be listening for because quite frankly, despite my best efforts, I'm still not hearing what everyone else is... In many ways I am indeed stereotypically Irish - wildly temperamental, easily provoked, quick to anger, eager to fight, willing to hold a grudge forever, completely unable to tell even the simplest of tales without wildly embellishing them for dramatic effect - but I play against type by not actually being much of a drinker - glass of wine for dinner is about it - so milk is fine but I would much prefer to add the milk to a nice cuppa if it's all the same to you -


I am head over heels in love with you, Shaughnessy. You have the most delightful sense of humor and I like nothing better than to read many of your outlandish posts to my beloved other. You have made many a day for us and in our dotage it becomes much easier to bear the cricks and cracks and pains that sometimes overcome the senses. Bless you me boy!


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> It really had nothing to do with either Baker or Blythe and their relative attractiveness or lack of - I wasn't even aware of what thread I was on or who was even competing when I posted that joke as I had six different pages open and was moving from one to the other - With hindsight, I wish that I had posted it in one of the tenor contests instead of one which featured women as I can see how someone would misinterpret the intent of the statement by thinking that it was directed towards them. I had a mother, have a wife, and five sisters - I genuinely like women - Not in the "no kidding, straight guy" sense (although that is indeed true) but just in and of themselves and I have far too much respect for each of them to ever be the kind of person - and most specifically the kind of man - who would denigrate, demean, or diminish any aspect of a woman's life or being just for the sake of getting a cheap laugh.


You must not offer excuses so much! You are not threatened by a gang of feminists. 😊


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> You must not offer excuses so much! You are not threatened by a gang of feminists. 😊


I'm guessing that Shaughnessy isn't afraid of either feminists or misogynists.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ColdGenius said:


> *You must not offer excuses so much! You are not threatened by a gang of feminists.* 😊


It's all about respect...

I was in my mid-teens when we emigrated from Ireland to the US - Maternal grandparents, parents, and five sisters... I spent the better part of my life surrounded by women... Sometimes literally surrounded by women - angry women, infuriated women, completely unreasonable women - women who just coincidentally happened to be my sisters - My sisters who outnumbered me five to one - with all five each different in her own unique way but all united in possessing the fiercest of Irish tempers - Exasperated beyond their endurance and way past the furthest boundaries of their patience - as it's probably no secret to anyone that they found their only brother to be a bit of a trial to live with - although I assure you through no fault of my own... In Ireland, I would have been shown the respect that I deserve as a _Seanchaí _- a story-teller - a weaver of tales - a keeper of the lore, the myths, and the fables - of who we are as a people - _Muintir_ _Na hÉireannaigh_ - and where we came from - _Éire _- but in the US... Well, In the US, I was pretty much just someone who never seemed to ever stop talking... despite being asked to do so repeatedly... and even worse, adamantly refusing to do so as is my right as the _Seanchaí._

And I saw these women - grandmother, mother, and sisters - kind-hearted and good-natured - unless needlessly provoked and antagonized - quick to laugh with an easy smile and a bright twinkle in their eyes - These women who were fierce in the face of adversity and courageous in confronting doubt and uncertainty - These seven women who were such an intrinsic - inseparable - vitally important - part of my life - quietly, graciously, and stoically - living the lives they had been given - and playing the roles in which they had been cast - day in and day out - year in and year out - a grandmother who was also a wife and a mother, a mother who was also a daughter and a wife, and five sisters who were also daughters who would themselves eventually become wives and mothers...

And I learned respect from them - from watching and observing and seeing them as they tried their best to shield us from - the sorrows, anguish, and adversity - the doubts, worries, and fears - that were handed down from generation to generation as if they were treasured keepsakes of our heritage that were meant to be passed on from one to another... I learned respect from them because their lives - their roles - were going to be significantly different - significantly more difficult - than mine would ever be as they, as women, intuitively understood what we as men never seemed to comprehend, that grief and heartbreak and loss are the prices that need to be paid in return for the kind of unconditional love that each of these women offered in their own unique way.

And by extension, through my grandmother and my mother and five sisters, I learned respect for all women... without exception... even the ones that I dated - and then fell in love with - and later had to place a restraining order against - because I was too young - too naïve - too trusting - too inexperienced in the ways of the world - and thus I lacked wisdom and knowledge - insight and perception - street smarts and every day garden variety common sense - to realize and understand and gradually comprehend - that "crazy" and "deranged" and "criminally insane" can all disguise themselves as really attractive women...which probably wouldn't have been all that much of an issue were it not for the fact that I was really attracted to really attractive women... I learned... eventually... that there is indeed a difference between the literal and figurative use of the phrase "I will kill you"... and that my biggest regret was that I didn't see any of these qualities - none of them - not a single one... until it was way too late... By the time you learn something way too late, it doesn't really matter what you may have learned... because guess what, genius, it's way too late to make any difference.

And then, on a night filled with bright shining stars and the light of a moon that shone like a late summer afternoon sun on a crisp autumn day, you looked out the window and saw that your girlfriend - who you thought may have actually loved you although you may or may not have loved her in return 'cause you were still kind of on the fence about that one - your girlfriend... had actually doused your car with gasoline and set it on fire... and she was dancing... and laughing... around the flames... Knowing her as well as I did and knowing myself even better, setting the car on fire seemed somewhat rational in a way that seemed to somehow make some kind of sense but probably doesn't if you allow reason and logic to get in the way - I understood - I knew - I could see - that there may have been an underlying cause - maybe something that I had done - maybe something that I had said - Maybe realizing just a little too late that dating her sister at the same time may not have been the brightest idea that I ever had...

But alarms bells started to sound - not just the ones signaling the imminent arrival of the fire department which was indeed on its way along with the police whose presence in that moment I found oddly comforting - but internal alarm bells started to sound - and they were even louder than the fire truck driving the wrong way down our one way street... Internal alarm bells that were even louder than the sound a smoke detector makes when you change the battery and test it... I don't know what triggered the epiphany... Maybe it was the dancing... Maybe it was the laughing... Most likely, it was the combination of the two... and the way she kept staring at me without blinking her eyes... Her dancing, her laughter, as she circled around the flickering flames of the burning car that she had just doused with gasoline and set on fire was somewhat disconcerting as you may well imagine...And I remember thinking... "I wonder if this would be a good time to break up with her?" - Just come right out and say - "Sorry, lass, it's not me, it's you, you're completely totally fecking nuts, but hey, I hope we can still be friends".

And so, that's what it's all about... respect - plain, simple, straightforward - respect...


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> It's all about respect...
> 
> I was in my mid-teens when we emigrated from Ireland to the US - Maternal grandparents, parents, and five sisters... I spent the better part of my life surrounded by women... Sometimes literally surrounded by women - all five of my sisters usually - sometimes it was just two or three of them but let's play it safe and just go with "all five" - exasperated beyond their endurance and way past the furthest boundaries of their patience - as it's probably no secret to anyone that I can be a bit of a trial to live with... In Ireland, I would have been shown the respect that I deserve as a _Seanchaí _- a story-teller - a keeper of the lore - a teller of tales of who we are and where we came from - but in the US... In the US, I was pretty much just someone who never seemed to shut up... despite being repeatedly asked to do so.
> 
> ...


What a guy!!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> It's all about respect...
> 
> I was in my mid-teens when we emigrated from Ireland to the US - Maternal grandparents, parents, and five sisters... I spent the better part of my life surrounded by women... Sometimes literally surrounded by women - all five of my sisters usually - sometimes it was just two or three of them but let's play it safe and just go with "all five" - exasperated beyond their endurance and way past the furthest boundaries of their patience - as it's probably no secret to anyone that I can be a bit of a trial to live with... In Ireland, I would have been shown the respect that I deserve as a _Seanchaí _- a story-teller - a keeper of the lore - a teller of tales of who we are and where we came from - but in the US... In the US, I was pretty much just someone who never seemed to shut up... despite being repeatedly asked to do so.
> 
> ...


Please rest assured that as obnoxious as certain people here can be, none of us would ever set your car on fire. Implying that you have abysmal taste is about as far as we'd go.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> ...
> girlfriend... had actually doused your car with gasoline and set it on fire... and she was dancing... and laughing... around the flames...


She would make a nice operatic character and people would clap and admire Callas soooo much for singing it with a proper drama.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BBSVK said:


> *She would make a nice operatic character and people would clap and admire Callas soooo much for singing it with a proper drama.*


And Franco Corelli could have played the role of "Shaughnessy"... although I shudder to think what his attempt at an Irish accent would have sounded like... _quelle horreur..._


----------

