# Spiritual experiences with music.



## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

Last month or so, I listened all the way through Bruckner's 9th symphony, for the second time, and it was amazing - it put me in an almost meditative, spiritual state of mind, like nothing I had experienced before in music. I am interested in if any of you also have has listening experiences like this.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

This topic seems to come up about every 2 months -- spirituality and music. I never know what people mean by spirituality in music. It always seems to me people are describing something that makes them feel good.

I have loved Bruckner for 40 years but have never received any spiritual uplift, or any other kind of uplift, from the 9th symphony. Many performances of it seem like the end of the world to me. There is more likelihood for these feelings in the adagios of the 7th and 8th symphonies, I think.

I just listened to Cherubini's _In Paradisum,_ a short choral work whose text says, among other things, "Into the paradise may the angels lead you." That was spiritually uplifting.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I am not sure what "spiritual experiences" means in this context since I do not think we are talking about ghosts (even if the composers who write the music and perhaps even the people performing on our recordings of it all happen to be dead). I often have an emotional reaction to music. I presume that, unless it is always the same person bringing up the topic, there must be something to the question if it keeps coming up with such regularity.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Bruckner 9 indeed, and even more the final minutes of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde.

ETA: Bruckner 9 especially the last moments of the third movement. One of the reasons why I find the completed 4th movement horrible is that it spoils that moment by continuing, as if nothing special had just happened.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

There are moments in music which bring me into a sense of the spiritual, or the transcendent. One of them is in Tintner's recording of Bruckner's 4th, in the first movement right before the recap. In fact, Tintner, at least to me, is able to consistently bring out a sense of the transcendent in Bruckner. Another moment is at the end of Celibidache's recording of the first movement of the 4th symphony.

Solomon's recording of the slow movement of Beethoven's Hammerklavier Sonata also does that to me; I lose track of time. In fact, many of late Beethoven's slow movements bring me into a sense of transcendence, because he has traded conflict resolution to spiritual resolution (he isn't fighting anymore; he is projecting a sense of acceptance). 

I'm always drawn in by the first movement of the C# minor string quartet. And the Heiliger Dankesang section of his Opus 32 string quartet has a climax which is the most authentic depiction in music of reaching out and touching something beyond this world that I've encountered.

Then there the end of his Op. 111 piano sonata, where everything gets compressed into a trill and time suspends itself.

The Sanctus in Dufay's Mass for Saint Anthony also has a way of stretching out my sense of time. 

There are more, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Too many, but one of the standout examples for me is Mahler’s 9th, especially the outer movements. There is no music like this in the world, it seems as if it is reaching out from a different universe. Then pretty much any late Beethoven slow movement, especially the 12th, 13th, and 15th quartets; piano sonatas 29 and 32, and the final Diabelli Variations. Then there’s Bach. All of Bach.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

I get HII with classical music, my soul rips the chains of my physical body and flies away, somewhere...


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

There is a harmony between music, religion and psychology. Brain science now supports the idea that listening to music triggers neurological responses similar to those that people experience during religious experiences involved with prayer and meditation, and prayers and even sermonizing seem to contain a certain rhythm.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I still remember the first time I heard Mahler's second symphony. I had bought a set conducted by Bernstein, and took it in to work to listen to as I worked on a particularly tedious program that I was trying to finish. I still remember the sense of being captivated and uplifted by the final movement, such that I entirely stopped coding and had to repeat that part several times. I don't know that it has ever quite had the same impact on me, now that I am so familiar with it, but it still works some kind of magic on me, as do parts of the Sibelius symphony no. 5.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Coach G said:


> There is a harmony between music, religion and psychology. Brain science now supports the idea that listening to music triggers neurological responses similar to those that people experience during religious experiences involved with prayer and meditation, and prayers and even sermonizing seem to contain a certain rhythm.


There is certainly a reason that it is so often used prominently in propaganda. It works.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Philip Larkin saw the connection between music and spirituality very clearly



> This is a special way of being afraid
> No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
> That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
> Created to pretend we never die,


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

BenG said:


> Last month or so, I listened all the way through Bruckner's 9th symphony, for the second time, and it was amazing - it put me in an almost meditative, spiritual state of mind, like nothing I had experienced before in music. I am interested in if any of you also have has listening experiences like this.


Are you kidding? That's why I listen to choral music. The percentage of choral works which 'flip' the switch for the state of mind you describe is greater for me than that produced by most instrumental music. I'm not always looking or searching for that state of mind, but I certainly do enjoy it.


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Slow movement of Schubert’s C major Quintet
Vaughan Williams’ Tallis Fantasia, slow movement from 2nd Symphony and parts of 5th Symphony
Bruckner 7-9
Strauss Death and Transfiguration, Four Last Songs
Mahler, final song from Das Lied von der Erde
Beethoven late quartets, slow movement of Hammerklavier
Goodness me! There’s more but I’ll stop here.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

If you want spirituality from Bruckner then you really should go to the Celibidache Munich recordings. But I am also wondering what spirituality means in this context and how I would recognise it. I believe it might be something like what I experience when I listen to Messiaen - the spiritual experience is physical rather than mental. I often feel (physically) different after listening to Messiaen.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Very little music brings out spiritual feelings in me. Here is one. The violin is supposed to symbolize the Holy Spirit.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> If you want spirituality from Bruckner then you really should go to the Celibidache Munich recordings. But I am also wondering what spirituality means in this context and how I would recognise it. I believe it might be something like what I experience when I listen to Messiaen - the spiritual experience is physical rather than mental. I often feel (physically) different after listening to Messiaen.


Yes. When someone says that a musical work affects them 'spiritually', I think we're owed an explanation of that spiritual experience, something *without* using the word "spiritual", as in the OP: "almost meditative, spiritual state of mind".

Or the second post: "That was spiritually uplifting".

Even the third post has a vague description: "I often have an emotional reaction to music." Emotional? Like, you start crying? Profound sadness? Profound joy?

Other attempts from above:

". . . I lose track of time."
". . . it seems as if it is reaching out from a different universe."
". . . my soul rips the chains of my physical body and flies away, somewhere..."
". . . choral works . . . 'flip' the switch for the state of mind you describe . . . "

. . . . Is it some feeling of joy?, or a feeling that you've been transported to some sort of etherical plane of existence? Astral projection? Waking dream state? A physical hypometabolic state?


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I listened to Mahler 9, Klemperer, this morning. Every time I hear the finale I’m convinced it is one of the most jaw-dropping things to ever come from mankind’s organization of sound. Stuff like this is what moves me spiritually. The greatest, most eloquent elegy to the beauty of life and the sorrow of evil that I know.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

pianozach said:


> Yes. When someone says that a musical work affects them 'spiritually', I think we're owed an explanation of that spiritual experience, something *without* using the word "spiritual", as in the OP: "almost meditative, spiritual state of mind".
> 
> Or the second post: "That was spiritually uplifting".
> 
> ...


*transported to some sort of etherical plane of existence? Astral projection?*

Astral Plane 7-B........self explanatory....I'm "there" half the time.

*"A physical hypometabolic state?"*

Now that's an interesting one. These physical states run along a spectrum, from lowered blood pressure, slower heart rate, and slower respiration all the way to samadhi. I'm sure these physical reactions are usually present to some degree when someone feels 'spiritual'. People practice Kriya Yoga to slow the respiratory process through breathing techniques to allow the mind/soul to experience these higher, spiritual states. I don't find it an unreasonable stretch to think music can get you part of the way there as well.

In the past, I have had one empirically observed occurrence. After wearing a halter monitor for 24 hours (done every other year for a heart arrhythmia) my cardiologist told me everything was perfect except for two anomalies which occurred. The first was no heart beat for 7 minutes and the second 20 minutes later for 4 minutes. The time coincided with me practicing breathing exercises and practicing Kriya Yoga out on my porch. The experience can best be described as 'spiritual'. Perhaps you've hit on something essentially basic to understanding these types of experiences when people listen to music and make these claims.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

BenG said:


> Last month or so, I listened all the way through Bruckner's 9th symphony, for the second time, and it was amazing - it put me in an almost meditative, spiritual state of mind, like nothing I had experienced before in music. I am interested in if any of you also have has listening experiences like this.


Yes, I think it has to do with the perception of time slowing down. When this happens, the "ego" loses its control and we go into a "being" state.
Here is a blurb on time:

*New Conceptions of Musical Time*

*Linear time:* Music that imparts a sense of linear time seems to move towards goals. This quality permeates virtually all of Western music from the Baroque, Classical, and Romantic eras. This is accomplished by processes which occur within tonal and metrical frameworks.

*Nonlinear time:* Music that evokes a sense of nonlinear time seems to stand still or evolve very slowly.

Western musicians first became aware of nonlinear time during the late 19th century. Debussy's encounter with Javanese gamelan music at the 1889 Paris Exhibition was a seminal event.

*Moment Form:* broken down connections between musical events in order to create a series of more or less discrete moments. Certain works of Stravinsky, Webern, Messiaen, and Stockhausen exemplify this approach.

*Vertical Time: *At the other extreme of the nonlinear continuum is music that maximizes consistency and minimizes articulation. Vertical time means that whatever structure that is in the music exists between simultaneous layers of sound, not between successive gestures. A virtually static moment is expanded to encompass an entire piece. A vertical piece does not exhibit large-scale closure. It does not begin, but merely starts. It does not build to a climax, does not set up internal expectations, does not seek to fulfill any expectations that might arise accidentally, does not build or release tension, and does not end, but simply ceases.

Minimalism exemplifies vertical time, but instead of absolute stasis, it generates constant motion. The sense of movement is so evenly paced, and the goals are so vague, that we usually lose our sense of perspective.


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Oh, come now. We know that every human experience is just the result of electrical activity in the brain.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Gray Bean said:


> Oh, come now. We know that every human experience is just the result of electrical activity in the brain.


How do you know? Did you stick a voltmeter probe into somebody's brain and measure it?


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

BenG said:


> Last month or so, I listened all the way through Bruckner's 9th symphony, for the second time, and it was amazing - it put me in an almost meditative, spiritual state of mind, like nothing I had experienced before in music. I am interested in if any of you also have has listening experiences like this.


Yes, but I am afraid not all human beings can experience the more spiritual experiences so the term emotional might be appropriate. To put another way, we bring ourselves to the music so if someone is devoid of the aspects that allow the spiritual enjoyment then they cannot know or grasp what you are getting at perhaps.

In the end, music is not the cause of it as one has to be able to have experiences regardless then the music can serve as a starting point.

As Beethoven says, music is a gateway to higher realm (something like that) and music is greater than all other knowledge (something like that), but Beethoven might get some arguments on this, especially since CM is not exactly drawing large crowds.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Gray Bean said:


> Oh, come now. We know that every human experience is just the result of electrical activity in the brain.


"We" as in the gatekeepers who are in charge of "truth" in science. Yes, don't make me laugh. It is well documented through the ages that one has to be a able to think and grasp the issue. In fact, this is the last relic that will go from the age of materialism. Full circle again but this time science will begin to unravel the mystery of the brain. But one need more examples for science to study so quiet now as Nature has a way of appearing and making a show now and then but what we need is for "normal" people to have more experiences, and this happens all the time. Might not be in time for you but sooner or later it will.  I am referring to the proofs science needs in their methodology.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> How do you know? Did you stick a voltmeter probe into somebody's brain and measure it?


I personally think the "brain" is vastly overrated but hey, if one wants to believe the brain is the cause of all experiences I am not about to engage in more dialogue to prove otherwise, too much time wasted. I hardly do much on these post regarding music either.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Joe B said:


> *transported to some sort of etherical plane of existence? Astral projection?*
> 
> Astral Plane 7-B........self explanatory....I'm "there" half the time.
> 
> ...


Perhaps it would be more correct to say we lose the physicality of existence, the bondage of being enslaved to the awareness of being so physical that we think it is the only experience we can have.


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> How do you know? Did you stick a voltmeter probe into somebody's brain and measure it?


Er, I was being sarcastic.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

*Quando corpus morietur [ 31:52 ]*






*Agnus dei [ 23:50 ]*


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bigbang said:


> Yes, but I am afraid not all human beings can experience the more spiritual experiences so the term emotional might be appropriate. To put another way, we bring ourselves to the music so if someone is devoid of the aspects that allow the spiritual enjoyment then they cannot know or grasp what you are getting at perhaps.


Why are you saying this? Is it for the benefit of those who can't tolerate the word "spiritual"? I guess this would include all ultra-rationalists, orthodox Christians, atheists, philosophers, free thinkers, etc.

I experience what I would call "spiritual" moments quite often. It's no big deal, and every human is capable of it.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

pianozach said:


> Yes. When someone says that a musical work affects them 'spiritually', I think we're owed an explanation of that spiritual experience, something *without* using the word "spiritual", as in the OP: "almost meditative, spiritual state of mind".
> 
> Or the second post: "That was spiritually uplifting".
> 
> ...


What is your problem? Why are you questioning this and critiquing all the answers? 
What's your agenda? 
Why does anyone here owe you an explanation? 
Are you a total rationalist, or an anti-religious nut?


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Joe B said:


> The first was no heart beat for 7 minutes and the second 20 minutes later for 4 minutes.


If you want to maintain your credibility, you must avoid claims like these.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Bigbang said:


> Perhaps it would be more correct to say we lose the physicality of existence, the bondage of being enslaved to the awareness of being so physical that we think it is the only experience we can have.


This is also how I perceive spirituality, and it can't be expressed much better IMO. Like some others here I have experiences like that rather often. Music - particularly Bach's more spiritual music, the Art of Fugue e. g. may evoke this state of mind.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes, I know what you mean. It's distinct from being emotionally involved in the music. I get this with Mahler's 9th and _Das Lied_, a fair amount of late Beethoven, Mozart, Bach (more from his instrumental works than explicitly religious ones, which often seem to focus on the emotions of the individual penitent or the drama of the text), and a lot of the major works of medieval and Renaissance music.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> What is your problem? Why are you questioning this and critiquing all the answers?
> What's your agenda?
> Why does anyone here owe you an explanation?
> Are you a total rationalist, or an anti-religious nut?


Just looking for some clarification. No need for you to get all pissy. Why so defensive?

Several others here gave some decent answers. You, on the other hand, seem to have taken the challenge personally.

Lockdown getting to you?


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> Why are you saying this? Is it for the benefit of those who can't tolerate the word "spiritual"? I guess this would include all ultra-rationalists, orthodox Christians, atheists, philosophers, free thinkers, etc.
> 
> I experience what I would call "spiritual" moments quite often. It's no big deal, and every human is capable of it.


Well, this is too complex and subtle to get into here. In short, if a person states they do not believe in any spiritual experience (except that it is really is physical based) they are admitting they have not any experiences that cast doubt on their beliefs. If a person has had experiences it is not a matter of belief or debate, it simply is. Lots of people who believe in spiritual teachings have never had a true experience but they are not grasping that our everyday life is a spiritual phenomena but cannot see this due to a lack of certain things that have to happen, one is they have a chance encounter that opens something up for an experience or doing certain things so much (meditation/prayer etc) that open a door. Anyway, I think it is fair to say most people are referring to being moved when listening to music. Emotion can be said (this is one of the mysterious of the brain) to be spiritual as how does a brain cause it? The materialist says just because we cannot explain it now does not mean we won't in the future.............

Anyway, I am very familiar with the arguments but I use my own experiences to gauge what I take in about this issue as well.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

pianozach said:


> Just looking for some clarification. No need for you to get all pissy. Why so defensive?
> 
> Several others here gave some decent answers. You, on the other hand, seem to have taken the challenge personally.
> 
> Lockdown getting to you?


Like the man said, "Lady, if you don't know what 'diddy-wah-diddy' means by now, don't ask!"


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bigbang said:


> In short, if a person states they do not believe in any spiritual experience (except that it is really is physical based) they are admitting they have not any experiences that cast doubt on their beliefs. If a person has had experiences it is not a matter of belief or debate, it simply is.


Yes, there are many automatons among us. When the Great Fire comes, they shall be totally annihilated, and only the realized spirits shall remain.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

premont said:


> If you want to maintain your credibility, you must avoid claims like these.


If you re-read my post, I never made any claims, so I think my credibility is still in tact. I stated the descriptions given to two anomalies by a cardiologist specializing in heart arrhythmia's who graduated from Harvard. These were stated as a matter of fact without discussion. What I did state, was that the incidents recorded by the monitor coincided with something relevant to an earlier post about "A physical hypometabolic state?" and its possible relationship to what can be termed a 'spiritual' experience.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I've listened to Terry Riley's _Persian Surgery Dervishes_ and it changed my brain waves; I could tell.

*I love music. I want music. I need music. I got's ta have music. And a pok'chop sandwich.*


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Joe B said:


> If you re-read my post, I never made any claims, so I think my credibility is still in tact. I stated the descriptions given to two anomalies by a cardiologist specializing in heart arrhythmia's who graduated from Harvard. These were stated as a matter of fact without discussion. What I did state, was that the incidents recorded by the monitor coincided with something relevant to an earlier post about "A physical hypometabolic state?" and its possible relationship to what can be termed a 'spiritual' experience.


Well, I can just about bet that a cardiologist from Harvard is not really believing you were without a heart beat for that amount of time as he would not know how to work that part in on what he learned in medical school. Generally you would be unconscious without a heartbeat. If there was any malfunction of equipment that might be something else.

I am aware of the claims of yogi lore about no breath and no heartbeat. There are all kinds of fantastic tales about the feats of the supernormal. But a medical doctor is not going to throw out his medical textbooks out the window believing things not even remotely possible according to science, unless he is Deepak Chopra.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Joe B said:


> If you re-read my post, I never made any claims, so I think my credibility is still in tact. I stated the descriptions given to two anomalies by a cardiologist specializing in heart arrhythmia's who graduated from Harvard. These were stated as a matter of fact without discussion. What I did state, was that the incidents recorded by the monitor coincided with something relevant to an earlier post about "A physical hypometabolic state?" and its possible relationship to what can be termed a 'spiritual' experience.


How was the heart action monitored? By means of EKG? Probably not, because if you had been without heart action for that long time, you had been dead since long, unless maybe you received immediate resuscitation. But if you were monitored by peripheral pulse palpation, the pulse may have been so weak as to be impalpable, even if the heart was still working.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

premont said:


> How was the heart action monitored? By means of EKG? Probably not, because if you had been without heart action for that long time, you had been dead since long, unless maybe you received immediate resuscitation. But if you were monitored by peripheral pulse palpation, *the pulse may have been so weak as to be impalpable, even if the heart was still working*.


I completely agree. The anomaly could very well be explained as the monitor being unable to record a weak/slow pulse.
The doctor stated, in reference to the data from the halter monitor, that everything appeared fine but that there were two anomalies, when no heart beat was recorded. He reported it and there was no discussion.

The point of the post was a response to an earlier post referring to a 'spiritual state' as:

*A physical hypometabolic state?*

My post was in response to this. The breathing exercises I was doing are designed to calm and relax the practitioner. Often a sense of 'spirituality' goes along with the practice. On that particular day, I happened to be wearing a halter monitor for a 24 hour period prior to an appointment with a cardiologist. I was making a connection between a 'spiritual' state of mind and a hypometabolic event. My assumption was that my heart rate and respiration did indeed slow down. If my heart rate was (slow/weak) below the threshold of the monitor to detect, then there might be a correlation between a hypometabolic state and having the sense of being in a 'spiritual state'.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I think anyone who has gone into a meditative state can understand experientially the effects of slowed heart rate and slowed brain waves. No explanation is necessary, only experience, which is what we're talking about: spiritual experiences of music.

How did we go off on this rationalist, atheist, pseudo-scientific philosophical tangent? Boring!

I think it's possible with Wagner, Bruckner, Beethoven, Debussy, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Mahler, to have "spiritual" impressions which do not necessarily cause any real changes in metabolism; they still remain in the "conscious" realm, so are more _metaphoric_ of such experiences.

But some music out there is capable: early Philip Glass, Terry Riley, Steve Reich, Stockhausen, John Cage...depending on the performance, circumstances, the individual listener's disposition.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Joe B said:


> I completely agree. The anomaly could very well be explained as the monitor being unable to record a weak/slow pulse.
> The doctor stated, in reference to the data from the halter monitor, that everything appeared fine but that there were two anomalies, when *no heart beat was recorded.* He reported it and there was no discussion.


A Holter monitor, which you mention, doesn't record the pulse but the electrical activity of the heart (EKG), and if there is no detectable electrical activity recorded, the heart isn't working. If this state lasts for more then a few seconds, consciousness is lost and death will follow soon, so the state can't have lasted for 4 or 7 minutes, as you write. I suppose you got the doctor wrong.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Music is definately a spiritual experience for me. When I'm listening to Bach, I want to be a Lutheran. When I'm listening to Bruckner or Schubert's _Ave Maria_ I want to be Roman Catholic. When I'm listening to Rimsky's _Russian Easter Overture_ or Rachmaninoff's _Vespers/All Night Vigil_ I want to be Eastern Orthodox. When I'm listening to a great Gospel singer like Mahalia Jackson, Shirley Caesar, Marion Williams, or Johnny Cash (yes, Country singer Cash was also a great Gospel singer!), I want to be a Southern Baptist. When I'm listening to Bruch's _Kol Nidrei_ or Bernstein's _Chinchester Psalms_, I want to be Jewish.

While I understand that the appeal may be all psychological, I also believe that music involves the search for beauty and truth.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> How did we go off on this rationalist, atheist, pseudo-scientific philosophical tangent? Boring!


Those pesky atheists and rationalists! Always turning up to ruin a thread.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> Those pesky atheists and rationalists! Always turning up to ruin a thread.


Yeah, it's a way of life...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

What is a way of life? Atheistic rationalism, or often complaining about it? It would be cool if somehow a ritual denunciation of atheists and rationalists did not crop up in one of these threads. It seems almost an OCD.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Decades ago, I dated this girl who sang in the alto section and we liked to make love to Beethoven's Sixth - where the storm breaks (oh ye of dirty mind). Now that, THAT was a spiritual musical experience! The secret to musical love making is in the development section (modified rondo).


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> What is a way of life? Atheistic rationalism, or often complaining about it? It would be cool if somehow a ritual denunciation of atheists and rationalists did not crop up in one of these threads. It seems almost an OCD.


See, that shows how prejudiced you are.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Room2201974 said:


> Decades ago, I dated this girl who sang in the alto section and we liked to make love to Beethoven's Sixth - where the storm breaks (oh ye of dirty mind). Now that, THAT was a spiritual musical experience! The secret to musical love making is in the development section (modified rondo).


If that "skill" is spiritual, then dogs must be also. Who knew?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> See, that shows how prejudiced you are.


What does this even mean?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> What does this even mean?


That you are hurling personal insults, which are 'duly noted.'


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> If that "skill" is spiritual, then dogs must be also. Who knew?


You missed the musical connection. They do call it the rhythm method, do they not? Besides, canines have no sense of polyrhythm, for them it's strictly 4/4 time.

Anyway, it's a lot more fun than thinking I'm one of the chozen few. I may have a big ego, but my head isn't big enough for that "kind" of spiritual musical experience. (If I keep up this kind of talk maybe Bettina will re-appear.)


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> That you are hurling personal insults, which are 'duly noted.'


I think the above is a good example of "hyperbole".


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

And who says dogs aren’t spiritual!?!?!?!


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Room2201974 said:


> You missed the musical connection. They do call it the rhythm method, do they not? Besides, canines have no sense of polyrhythm, for them it's strictly 4/4 time.
> 
> Anyway, it's a lot more fun than thinking I'm one of the chozen few. I may have a big ego, but my head isn't big enough for that "kind" of spiritual musical experience. (If I keep up this kind of talk maybe Bettina will re-appear.)


4/4?

No, it's far more binary than that. 2/4 time.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Gray Bean said:


> And who says dogs aren't spiritual!?!?!?!


Well, I say if we are spiritual beings having a human experience, then dogs/cats are spiritual beings having a canine/feline experience.

Woof Woof! Meow! Meow!


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

I think I will stay away from any future threads discussing 'spirituality'


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

BenG said:


> I think I will stay away from any future threads discussing 'spirituality'


You started this thread.

Discussing "Spirituality" without laying out some guidelines is a real can o' worms, eh?


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Gave me x-perience of soul leaving a body...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

pianozach said:


> You started this thread.
> 
> Discussing "Spirituality" without laying out some guidelines is a real can o' worms, eh?


Yes, it is. Fortunately, there are a lot of guidebooks out there. Anyway, it beats discussing religion.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

BenG said:


> I think I will stay away from any future threads discussing 'spirituality'


_you will stay away, you will stay away...sator, arepo, tenet, opera, rotas...
_


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