# Representative Cage Recordings



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

For me, the particular recording of John Cage is important, since there is more difference in his "composition" and the performance of it than there is in conventionally composed works. This varies, depending on the work.

I consider this Jean Kirstein recording to be essential, as it features most of his early piano pieces. Pictured below is the original cover art, as it appeared on the 2-LP Columbia Masterworks issue. It's avalable as a 2-CD from CDJapan. Below that is the same recording, paired with Morton Feldman. It used to be the cheaper alternative, but has gone up to $35 on Amazon. I'd suggest just going on and getting the Japanese issue.


http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/SICC-76
​


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

John Cage - 4' 33'' Death Metal Cover by Dead Territory


----------



## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

I think anyone who appreciates Cage or has the potentiality for doing so should listen to Julie Steinberg's excellent playing of Cage's _Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano_. It is also very well recorded and captures every nuance of Steinberg's nine-foot Steinway "O" concert grand. As music critic Paul Griffiths has written, "The challenge of the work is that of holding up a white canvas without leaving too many fingerprints on it. Ms. Steinberg meets that challenge."


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

For my part, I'm mostly interested in the later music, especially some of the number pieces and the song book, I'll try to make some recording suggestions later if anyone's interested.


----------



## reinmar von zweter (Feb 19, 2020)

Not bad these Italian recordings


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

By the way, I can mention without thinking too hard that THE recording which turned me on to Cage is a contentious one, because people say that it's a very willful interpretation of the piano etudes, so I'm not sure it can be called "representative." This one


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

And here's another one which is important to me.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree with zeinmar; those Italian recordings on Brilliant are excellent. And with Mandryka, on the Etudes Australes.

Another important recording is Fontana Mix (A Realization of the Version for Magnetic Tape Alone).


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Jacck said:


> John Cage - 4' 33'' Death Metal Cover by Dead Territory


Aren't they supposed to let you know when they're going from one movement to the next?


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> I think anyone who appreciates Cage or has the potentiality for doing so should listen to Julie Steinberg's excellent playing of Cage's _Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano_. It is also very well recorded and captures every nuance of Steinberg's nine-foot Steinway "O" concert grand. As music critic Paul Griffiths has written, "The challenge of the work is that of holding up a white canvas without leaving too many fingerprints on it. Ms. Steinberg meets that challenge."


I don't know this music particularly well, but there is one recording which did catch my imagination, and lo and behold, it's on youtube.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Marianne Schroeder is one of my favourite pianists. She has, as far as I know only recorded one Cd by Cage, and Two with Eberhard Blum is on youtube.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Jacck said:


> John Cage - 4' 33'' Death Metal Cover by Dead Territory


Sorry, but a touch too loud for my tastes.
Maybe there's a Barry Manilow version?


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Representative Cage Recordings *

My long time favorite Cage recording remains his lecture on Indeterminacy with piano accompaniments by David Tudor.









The other Cage I treasure is less of Cage music but more of Cage's influence, which is what I contend is Cage's major contribution: his philosophical contribution to the definition of music. It's a compilation titled _A Chance Operation - The John Cage Tribute_.

















Of course, the thing about Cage recordings is that Cage himself apparently didn't much care for recordings, whether of other people's music or his own. Still, those of us who do appreciate recorded music remain pleased that Cage left us some. He was a man of unique vision, a vision I for one am glad we have documented evidence of.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

SONNET CLV said:


> My long time favorite Cage recording remains his lecture on Indeterminacy with piano accompaniments by David Tudor.
> 
> View attachment 130518


Yes, that's a good one. It features Cage reading his "koans," which are interesting little anecdotes designed to make you more enlightened.

This is one which is very beautiful:


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Very much enjoying this -- which may well have been his final piece of music


----------



## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

My favorite Cage recording, Glenn Freeman performing all four percussion parts on Four4... a wonder of an accomplishment. https://www.amazon.com/Four4-John-Cage/dp/B0000667F3&ved=2ahUKEwie2ryHteHnAhWwna0KHZAWBB8QFjAGegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3rm-4jS2Zhxbom2Ltkm6Lp


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

PeterFromLA said:


> My favorite Cage recording, Glenn Freeman performing all four percussion parts on Four4... a wonder of an accomplishment. https://www.amazon.com/Four4-John-Cage/dp/B0000667F3&ved=2ahUKEwie2ryHteHnAhWwna0KHZAWBB8QFjAGegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3rm-4jS2Zhxbom2Ltkm6Lp


I'm glad you've found a way of enjoying this music, despite its (lack of) form. I'm going to try and hear Glann Freeman's Four4. I like the piece very much


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

reinmar von zweter said:


> Not bad these Italian recordings
> 
> View attachment 130486
> 
> ...


I'm going to try and find these. I just bought this:










Looking forward to receiving it and exploring the music. Cage is still very much a blind spot in my musical knowledge.

Does anyone have this?










... or this?


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Music of Changes must be really difficult to play. I think that I t was composed using largely aleatoric methods. How is is the performer supposed to turn random notes into something which will captivate a listener? The answer must lie in all the piano effects that he can muster, in the judgements about phrasing, touch and resonance, in the way he manages the silences.

I’ve heard Chen play it on that disc with the Scarlatti. The transitions into and out of the two different composers is amusing. But the Cage itself didn’t have a great impact on me - I still think anyone who wants to explore Music of Changes should at least try David Tudor, who, I think, created it, and who has a sort of authority which I find compelling.

I can’t remember Ian Pace’s Music for Piano, though I have it and I’m sure I’ve heard it. I’ll listen to it later today and post if I have anything to say about it.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Music of Changes must be really difficult to play. I think that I t was composed using largely aleatoric methods. How is is the performer supposed to turn random notes into something which will captivate a listener? The answer must lie in all the piano effects that he can muster, in the judgements about phrasing, touch and resonance, in the way he manages the silences.
> 
> I've heard Chen play it on that disc with the Scarlatti. The transitions into and out of the two different composers is amusing. But the Cage itself didn't have a great impact on me - I still think anyone who wants to explore Music of Changes should at least try David Tudor, who, I think, created it, and who has a sort of authority which I find compelling.
> 
> I can't remember Ian Pace's Music for Piano, though I have it and I'm sure I've heard it. I'll listen to it later today and post if I have anything to say about it.


That's the one I'm really curious about, more so for the Boulez Structures, though both works sound intriguing. Do let me know what you think.

I'm listening to this:










The String Quartet in Four Parts. Is this a "representative Cage recording"?


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I've got both of those Hat Art recordings. The one with "Structures" is especially valuable for the liner notes. As far as the piece itself, It's not one of Boulez' better piano works, and he himself considered it a failure. It is interesting in the way it was constructed, as a self-generating piece. The overall effect is a kind of static state, like entropy. It is made more interesting by being put next to Cage.
As Mandryka said,


> Music of Changes must be really difficult to play. I think that I t was composed using largely aleatoric methods. How is is the performer supposed to turn random notes into something which will captivate a listener? The answer must lie in all the piano effects that he can muster, in the judgements about phrasing, touch and resonance, in the way he manages the silences.


...so the answer lies in the performer: as in 4'33", but less drastically, Cage has shifted the idea of composition away from the composer, to something else, and in the case of these "real" compositions which contain notated pitches, a lot of the responsibility is placed on the performer. For me, performance is everything in these pieces.

I'd say the Cage String Quartet on DG is representative. I also agree with Mandryka that David Tudor is a key figure in all this. I have his 1950s Darmstadt Stockhausen Klavierstucke recordings.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> I've got both of those Hat Art recordings. The one with "Structures" is especially valuable for the liner notes. As far as the piece itself, It's not one of Boulez' better piano works, and he himself considered it a failure. It is interesting in the way it was constructed, as a self-generating piece. The overall effect is a kind of static state, like entropy. It is made more interesting by being put next to Cage.
> As Mandryka said, ...so the answer lies in the performer: as in 4'33", but less drastically, Cage has shifted the idea of composition away from the composer, to something else, and in the case of these "real" compositions which contain notated pitches, a lot of the responsibility is placed on the performer. For me, performance is everything in these pieces.
> 
> I'd say the Cage String Quartet on DG is representative. I also agree with Mandryka that David Tudor is a key figure in all this. I have his 1950s Darmstadt Stockhausen Klavierstucke recordings.


You don't like Structures? I see it as more of a chamber work than a piano work, but I was really impressed by book 2! I have the recording with Pierre Laurent Aimard and Florent Boffard on DG.

Is it just me or is Hat[now]Art the worst name you've ever heard for a record label?


----------



## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

Hat Art is the original name of the label. It was largely an experimental jazz outfit until it started issuing pressings of recordings by Cage, Feldman, Earl Brown, and others of the New York School, probably because of the perceived affinity between jazz and American experimental music. Eventually the label branched out into recording a wider spectrum of contemporary classical composers. At some point early in their turn to composed music they created the Hat Art Now imprint, which was meant to showcase the work of these composers.


----------



## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

The 25-Year Retrospective Concert of the Music of John Cage (Wergo)









Six Inventions (1934) Anahid Ajemian, Maro Ajemian, Douglas Allan, etc.
First Construction in Metal (1939) Manhattan Percussion Ensemble
Imaginary Landscape No. 1 (1939) John Cage, etc.
The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs (1942) Arline Carmen, John Cage
She is Asleep (1943) Manhattan Percussion Ensemble, Arline Carmen & John Cage
Sonatas and Interludes (1948, I-VIII & 2 interludes) Maro Ajemian
Music for Carillon No. 1 (1952) David Tudor
William Mix (1953) John Cage, Earle Brown, David Tudor
Concert for piano and orchestra (1958) David Tudor, Merce Cunningham

I think this is a good representative recording of Cage's early works up to 1958. Although the sound quality is not ideal, the performances are vivid and the audience is enthusiastic.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> That's the one I'm really curious about, more so for the Boulez Structures, though both works sound intriguing. Do let me know what you think.
> 
> I'm listening to this:
> 
> ...


Give me some time to think about Structures.

The Quartet in Four Parts is very early, when he was using a method of composition called Gammuts (or something like that) - I think he came across it when he was studying with Schoenberg. There's even a narrative, something to do with seasons, I can't remember. The La Salle recording makes it sound quite wilful to me. I enjoyed the old recording from The New Music Quartet. But in truth I much prefer his two other pieces for string quartet: _Four_ and _Thirty Pieces for String Quartet_, which I think are more « representative » of his mature ideas.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Why is it hilarious to me that Cage studied under Schoenberg, of all people. Their music could not be more radically different from one another.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Why is it hilarious to me that Cage studied under Schoenberg, of all people. Their music could not be more radically different from one another.


Here's a quote from one of the essays in Cage's book _Silence_



> After I had been studying with him for two years, Schoenberg said, "In order to write music, you must have a feeling for harmony." I explained to him that I had no feeling for harmony. He then said that I would always encounter an obstacle, that it would be as though I came to a wall through which I could not pass. I said, "In that case I shall devote my life to beating my head against that wall.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

flamencosketches said:


> Why is it hilarious to me that Cage studied under Schoenberg, of all people. Their music could not be more radically different from one another.


If you get the Kirstein recordings, you can hear Cage's 12-tone pieces. They are Two Pieces (1935) and Metamorphosis (1938), I believe. They seem to be based on fifths, which is the only interval besides the minor second which generates all 12 pitches when projected. That makes sense.

Also, Schoenberg seems to be Cage's musical guru. It was to him that Cage made his vow to devote his life to music, and even after Cage had "transcended" this desire, he decided to continue making music based on this promise.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> If you get the Kirstein recordings, you can hear Cage's 12-tone pieces. They are Two Pieces (1935) and Metamorphosis (1938), I believe. They seem to be based on fifths, which is the only interval besides the minor second which generates all 12 pitches when projected. That makes sense.
> 
> Also, Schoenberg seems to be Cage's musical guru. It was to him that Cage made his vow to devote his life to music, and even after Cage had "transcended" this desire, he decided to continue making music based on this promise.


Looks great, but not easy to find. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it, anyway. Schoenberg played "guru" to a lot of different younger composers, it seems... I wonder if he ever tired of the role.

I ordered this yesterday:










Looking forward to exploring the music.

I've gotten really curious about this recording of Two2:

http://www.anothertimbre.com/cagetwo2.html

I'd like to check it out.


----------

