# Beethoven's Fifth Symphony



## Wow! (9 mo ago)

What are your opinions on the Vienna Master Series Beethoven’s fifth symphony C.D. and how does it compare with other versions of Beethoven’s fifth symphony.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Had to look that one up. A Pilz cd with Anton Nanut and the Ljubljana RSO, right?
If it's some Scholz fabrication that uses Nanut's name, then no, it doesn't compare favorably with the numerous great Beethoven 5ths out there.
If it's the real thing, it doesn't compare favorably with the numerous great Beethoven 5ths out there either.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

My mother has a collection of CDs by Scholz, so this was the first recording of Beethoven's Fifth I've ever heard. In my current opinion it's not bad, but not great either. My reference performance of this wonderful symphony (one of my favorite works of all times) is the Karajan/BPO from 1963. It's on youtube in case you want to listen to it.


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## Wow! (9 mo ago)

How does it compare with the Beethoven’s fifth symphony performed by the Cleveland orchestra with George Szell conducting?


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Xisten267 said:


> My mother has a collection of CDs by Scholz, so this was the first recording of Beethoven's Fifth I've ever heard. In my current opinion it's not bad, but not great either. My reference performance of this wonderful symphony (one of my favorite works of all times) is the Karajan/BPO from 1963. It's on youtube in case you want to listen to it.


 It's HvK for me as well and the edition doesn't matter as he was quite consistent in his approach to this symphony over a long period of time from 1954 with the Philharmonia to his later BPO recordings.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Wow! said:


> How does it compare with the Beethoven’s fifth symphony performed by the Cleveland orchestra with George Szell conducting?


I’m a big fan of Szell. I have the mega box and a Japanese SACD set of the Beethoven symphonies. But for the 5th, I have to go with Carlos Kleiber.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I have not heard that VMS version, but if it really is Nanut at the helm I can tell you without listening that it is a solid, traditional European interpretation that is very much like what you would have heard throughout Europe in the 20th c. The orchestra isn't world-class, but more than capable of delivering the 5th without errors. I had the rare privilege of hearing Nanut conduct a couple of times and was allowed to attend a rehearsal. He was an old-school gentlemen and the orchestra loved working with him. He knew his stuff and those older traditions were in his blood. I have a Mahler 6th he recorded - it's excellent. If it weren't for the wretched, glassy sonics if would be much better known. Since people are commenting on other 5th: Szell is too hard driven; Kleiber is great but not the sonics. For older versions I much prefer Rene Leibowitz with the Royal Philharmonic. For newer, Paavo Jarvi with the Bremen orchestra in stunning SACD.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I once read this in a book that reviewed and graded 14 versions of the Fifth: "(I) just emerged from many hours of living with an assortment of many recordings ...and can faithfully report (I) found the piece utterly moving and sublime." I have heard 30 or 40 versions and agree: it is virtually impossible for a competent director and orchestra to do it poorly. The Beethoven Fifth is probably the most perfect composition in all classical music.

The Vienna Masters version, from Anton Nanut and the Ljubljana Radio Symphony Orchestra, is available on YouTube. It is certainly good and no less than competent. This conductor and orchestra does most things well,


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

If its the proper Nanut version (timings will be very similar or same as below) then it's a capable performance. The Ljubljanas were hardly the BPO but their recordings with Nanut were always spirited and had plenty of forward momentum. The best of Nanut's Beethoven is his 7th which is fun. I loved how some people used to refer to Nanut as 'The Bargain-bin Karajan' or 'Karajan of the cheapies'. Lol.

1st Mvmnt 7:19
2nd Mvmnt 11:00
3rd Mvmnt 5:23
4th Mvmnt 8:50

If timings are very different from these then it's not Nanut and could be anyone. Btw, some recordings credit the first movement as being a minute longer in length but the real timing is the one above. Nanut confirmed he had recorded 4,5,7 & 8 but no others yet Scholz credited other recordings of the 9 to him falsely. I have commented many times on Scholz and his dodgy recordings and you may be able to find my numerous comments and the info I've gleaned if you put in the words 'Alfred Scholz' in the TC search bar.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

The Anton Nanut/Ljubljana recordings are the apex of the Pilz/Vienna Masters CD series. Unfortunately his recordings (Wikipedia says 200+) usually appeared-- often pseudonymously-- on a number of super budget classical CD labels making it difficult to compile an accurate discography.


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## Wow! (9 mo ago)

larold said:


> I once read this in a book that reviewed and graded 14 versions of the Fifth: "(I) just emerged from many hours of living with an assortment of many recordings ...and can faithfully report (I) found the piece utterly moving and sublime." I have heard 30 or 40 versions and agree: it is virtually impossible for a competent director and orchestra to do it poorly. The Beethoven Fifth is probably the most perfect composition in all classical music.
> 
> The Vienna Masters version, from Anton Nanut and the Ljubljana Radio Symphony Orchestra, is available on YouTube. It is certainly good and no less than competent. This conductor and orchestra does most things well,


Please send me a link to the video.


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## JB Henson (Mar 29, 2019)

Carlos Kleber is the gold standard as far as Fifths go so any recording has to be directly compared to that.


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## Wow! (9 mo ago)

Merl said:


> If its the proper Nanut version (timings will be very similar or same as below) then it's a capable performance. The Ljubljanas were hardly the BPO but their recordings with Nanut were always spirited and had plenty of forward momentum. The best of Nanut's Beethoven is his 7th which is fun. I loved how some people used to refer to Nanut as 'The Bargain-bin Karajan' or 'Karajan of the cheapies'. Lol.
> 
> 1st Mvmnt 7:19
> 2nd Mvmnt 11:00
> ...


I checked a library cd 💿 out with Vienna master series Beethoven’s fifth symphony by the Llubjana Radio Symphony orchestra with Anton Naruto conducting and there was a long period of silence before the first movement began on track one which I found odd.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Wow! said:


> I checked a library cd 💿 out with Vienna master series Beethoven’s fifth symphony by the Llubjana Radio Symphony orchestra with Anton Naruto conducting and there was a long period of silence before the first movement began on track one which I found odd.


Some of the transfers of Scholz stuff on those cheapo Euro labels were appaling. No one ever quality-checked them so it wasn't uncommon for movements to be cut or even totally missing, there would be grossly inaccurate timings, wrongly labeled discs and occasionally wrongly labeled contents, misspellings, horrendously done edits and all accompanied by the inevitable pseudonyms and fictitious artists. You have to laugh. The sad bit is that every few years they're all redistributed on another cheapo label in the same way.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

JB Henson said:


> Carlos Kleber is the gold standard as far as Fifths go so any recording has to be directly compared to that.


Agree , however the 60 ties recording von Karajan DG is also very fine.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

JB Henson said:


> Carlos Kleber is the gold standard as far as Fifths go.


Gold standard for me is Reiner; Toscanini, Szell, Solti very fine also


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## LKB (Jul 27, 2021)

The Fifth and l go back a bit. It was one of the very first works l performed with an orchestra, decades ago. I was a percussionist back then, and had just been designated timpanist, so l was pumped once l found out what was programmed: _I'm playing Beethoven's Fifth on timpani? Y'all best take cover_... 😁

As far as recordings are concerned, I'm a fan of von Karajan 1963, Carlos Kleiber and Hogwood.


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## Nipper (Jun 5, 2020)

Reiner/CSO is my go-to Fifth. Other favorites include Wand/NDRSO, Jochum/LSO, Szell/VPO (live), Dorati/LSO. Karajan also does a good Fifth; his 1963/BPO has one of the hottest finales. I've recently discovered Markevitch's great Fifth via streaming and am looking to snag it on CD. Honeck/Pittsburgh is a great sounding modern recording and top notch performance.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

To hear what a pianist can do with the score.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Luchesi said:


> To hear what a pianist can do with the score.


He forgot the orchestra...... 😎


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