# Thoughts on the Met's new Lucia di Lammermoor?



## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Not sure what to think. I'm just confused at this point.


----------



## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Considering going to see it next month at some point. Want to see the Opera in person, but a little bit nervous about whether the new production will distract too much. Crossing my fingers.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I'll have to wait until I see it in order to evaluate the Met's new Lucia . But from what I''ve heard about it, it doesn't seem anywhere are ridiculous and perverse as the kind of Eurotrash productions so common in Europe today .


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Some pic from Instagram,


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

That does it for me, thanks. Staying away from it.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Rogerx said:


> Some pic from Instagram,


Can a woman with holes in her skin-tight jeans sing coloratura?


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Being that our HD theater is 7 minutes away we will see it (just as long as I don't dare allow my mate to discover that it's one of those regie things he hates.) It's all about the singers for me more than the staging these days. Hoping Camarena and Sierra will come through.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bit bloody


----------



## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Rogerx said:


> Bit bloody


It is so bloody. I was shocked and this is coming from a person who plays/watches a lot of survival horror. All I can think is that cleaning it up must be a pain.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

gsdkfasdf said:


> It is so bloody. I was shocked and this is coming from a person who plays/watches a lot of survival horror. All I can think is that cleaning it up must be a pain.


That reminds me of Callas's statement that she woud never wear a blood stained nightgown in the Mad Scene, nor carry a knife, her point being that this was Romantic opera and that therefore nothing should be too explicit. Few directors these days understand music though and direct Romantic opera as if it were *Wozzeck*.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Haven't seen it, but my general approach to updated, modern, avant-garde productions is thus: if there are already great, traditional productions of the opera available for me to watch and enjoy, then all other productions should feel free to get as weird, modern, and creative as they want. The only time I'm bothered by the latter is when there AREN'T good/great traditional productions. I've seen some of the latter I've immensely enjoyed and others that probably didn't make sense to anyone but the director.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> That reminds me of Callas's statement that she woud never wear a blood stained nightgown in the Mad Scene, nor carry a knife, her point being that this was Romantic opera and that therefore nothing should be too explicit. Few directors these days understand music though and direct Romantic opera as if it were *Wozzeck*.


That's certainly a purist sentiment - or maybe a puritanical one - but of course 1950s audiences were not Donizetti's audiences, and sensibilities, including what people find effective onstage, do change. I think Callas was essentially right, and that the scene was intended to be moving rather than shocking, but a bit of blood on the dress wouldn't shock anyone today, when blood is liberally used in theater and film. Do we know how they staged it in the composer's day?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> That's certainly a purist sentiment - or maybe a puritanical one - but of course 1950s audiences were not Donizetti's audiences, and sensibilities, including what people find effective onstage, do change. I think Callas was essentially right, and that the scene was intended to be moving rather than shocking, but a bit of blood on the dress wouldn't shock anyone today, when blood is liberally used in theater and film. Do we know how they staged it in the composer's day?


I wouldn't object to a bit of blood or a knife either, but I understand her point that we should be led by the music. I don't object to updatings, as long as they make _musical_ sense, and as long as the director is led by the music rather than just the libretto. Too often I feel that modern day directors don't have a musical bone in their bodies and come up with a "concept" which they uncomfortably try to hang onto the music.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I wouldn't object to a bit of blood or a knife either, but I understand her point that we should be led by the music. I don't object to updatings, as long as they make _musical_ sense, and as long as the director is led by the music rather than just the libretto. Too often I feel that modern day directors don't have a musical bone in their bodies and come up with a "concept" which they uncomfortably try to hang onto the music.


My old Victor Book of the Opera has a photo of Galli-Curci holding Lucia's knife and looking very convincingly demented. I love those old opera photos.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> My old Victor Book of the Opera has a photo of Galli-Curci holding Lucia's knife and looking very convincingly demented. I love those old opera photos.


I love those old books. Of course, the Victor Book of Opera only included RCA Victor artists, though I cannot remember which artists _weren’t! _


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I've recently found a copy of an even older book which I had in my teens, _The Standard Operas: Their Plots and Their Music_, by George P. Upton, published in 1914. As you might guess, the operas Upton considered "standard" were not always the same as those we would choose now. There were works of Adam, Auber, Aubert, Balfe, Bittner, Blech, Boieldieu, Breton, Bruneau, Converse, Wolf-Ferrari, Franchetti, Gaune, Herold, Lecocq, Nessler, Nouges, Parker, Reyer, Rubinstein, Thuille and Wallace, and six operas of Meyerbeer. At the same time there are only three operas of Mozart (_Cosi fan tutte_ wasn't "standard" then), three of Bellini and four of Puccini including, of all things, _Le Villi._ There's no early Verdi except _Ernani._ There are plenty of photos of singers, many of whom are completely unfamiliar but were no doubt celebrated. It's fascinating to read what Upton, and presumably others back then, had to say about the operas.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I refuse to see the HD. I am tearing my tickets up. Any Lucia who takes a gun to blow her brains out, and is drenched from head to toe in blood is not for me. This is pure Eurotrash in my book. Sounds almost like a Bieito production.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Some photos. I don’t know how many gallons of fake blood were used!





































The problem to me is that such modern dress productions tend to militate against the spirit of bel canto romance.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I refuse to see the HD. I am tearing my tickets up. Any Lucia who takes a gun to blow her brains out, and is drenched from head to toe in blood is not for me. This is pure Eurotrash in my book. Sounds almost like a Bieito production.


I don’t know why Gelb is so insistent on modern productions. The Metropolitan Opera audience is a conservative one and a sharply updated _konsept _will not please the majority of the audience members, including this one, who will definitely stay away.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

marlow said:


> Some photos. I don’t know how many gallons of fake blood were used!
> 
> View attachment 167497
> 
> ...


As you say, this is Romantic opera and what we see in these photos is anything but. 

Here's what Operawire has to say.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> I don’t know why Gelb is so insistent on modern productions. The Metropolitan Opera audience is a conservative one and a sharply updated _konsept _will not please the majority of the audience members, including this one, who will definitely stay away.


Apparently you're not the only one.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

If they need modern costumes, why should they be so awful?


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Lucia's "dreck-tor" considers himself a "transgressive art" director. I call him a piece of Eurotrash.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ColdGenius said:


> If they need modern costumes, why should they be so awful?



*Lucia di Lammermoor *doesn’t call for modern costumes; the director and costume designer (and Gelb) chose these.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

one of the problems is when you take an opera so far out of its set context a lot of the issues involved are simply not issues in a modern society. Therefore the audience has A double suspension of disbelief


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

marlow said:


> View attachment 167497
> 
> 
> View attachment 167498
> ...


That's putting it gently! The music of Donizetti would sound positively bizarre coming out of the mouths of people who look like that. In fact, people who look like that would undoubtedly hate his music, and all of opera too. But apparently we live in postmodern - or is it it post-postmodern, or maybe neo-postmodern - times, and artistic integrity is a terribly old-fashioned concept. 

Over in this thread, Opinions vs less and more objective argumentation, there are people who argue that all artistic standards are "subjective" and that anything you do to a work of art is as legitimate as anything else. Clearly this production is for them. Me, I'm just too old for this stuff. I seem to be stuck in an obsolete mindset which expects Romantic operas to look as well as sound like Romantic operas, especially when they feature melancholy, fragile heroines going mad in coloratura in damp castles on the moors, and heroes who kill themselves in cemeteries. I mean, how can you beat that?


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> That's putting it gently! The music of Donizetti would sound positively bizarre coming out of the mouths of people who look like that. In fact, people who look like that would undoubtedly hate his music, and all of opera too. But apparently we live in postmodern - or is it it post-postmodern, or maybe neo-postmodern - times, and artistic integrity is a terribly old-fashioned concept.
> 
> Over in this thread, Opinions vs less and more objective argumentation, there are people who argue that all artistic standards are "subjective" and that anything you do to a work of art is as legitimate as anything else. Clearly this production is for them. Me, I'm just too old for this stuff. I seem to be stuck in an obsolete mindset which expects Romantic operas to look as well as sound like Romantic operas, especially when they feature melancholy, fragile heroines going mad in coloratura in damp castles on the moors, and heroes who kill themselves in cemeteries. I mean, how can you beat that?


I am so in agreement with you, but I have been bombarded by several opera friends who have encouraged me to pick myself up, dust myself off and take my HD purchased tickets 7 minutes away to the theater and just DO IT because the singing and the music are overwhelmingly beautiful. I was promised no urinals and bare butts or any simulated sex for prurient gratification, etc.
So I guess I can stand a bit more blood than was necessary andgo for it. Wish me luck.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I am so in agreement with you, but I have been bombarded by several opera friends who have encouraged me to pick myself up, dust myself off and take my HD purchased tickets 7 minutes away to the theater and just DO IT because the singing and the music are overwhelmingly beautiful. I was promised no urinals and bare butts or any simulated sex for prurient gratification, etc.
> So I guess I can stand a bit more blood than was necessary andgo for it. Wish me luck.


Good luck, nina foresti! I won’t go. If I see people in jeans onstage, I figure it’s a rehearsal.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> I am so in agreement with you, but I have been bombarded by several opera friends who have encouraged me to pick myself up, dust myself off and take my HD purchased tickets 7 minutes away to the theater and just DO IT because the singing and the music are overwhelmingly beautiful. I was promised no urinals and bare butts or any simulated sex for prurient gratification, etc.
> So I guess I can stand a bit more blood than was necessary andgo for it. Wish me luck.


A bit of blood? More than enough for a slasher zombie movie! I don’t know how many time she stabbed him but looking at that picture she must’ve just about climbed inside his corpse after disembowelling him! Absolutely ridiculous! Over-the-top needlessly shocking which produces only mirth in anyone who has a trace of logic about them!


----------



## DeGustibus (Aug 7, 2020)

I have read several reviews since the Sat. premiere and they have been uniform in their enthusiasm for the singing, esp. Sierra. There is a free audio stream of tonight's (4/26) performance. Eta: I now note that the OperaWire review posted above does not share the enthusiasm.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

marlow said:


> A bit of blood? More than enough for a slasher zombie movie! I don’t know how many time she stabbed him but looking at that picture she must’ve just about climbed inside his corpse after disembowelling him! Absolutely ridiculous! Over-the-top needlessly shocking which produces only mirth in anyone who has a trace of logic about them!


I read one of the reviews that said there was so much blood that Lucia must have attacked him with a fire hydrant!


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> I read one of the reviews that said there was so much blood that Lucia must have attacked him with a fire hydrant!


Maybe she dismembered his corpse with a machete!


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> I read one of the reviews that said there was so much blood that Lucia must have attacked him with a fire hydrant!


He corrected it. He meant fire hose.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> He corrected it. He meant fire hose.


it might be amusing but it does show just how much the director is out of touch with the spirit of the Opera.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> He corrected it. He meant fire hose.


Can you make someone bleed with a fire hose?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

i sincerely hope that audience members will have the courage to make their disapproval of this hideousness known. The radio broadcast will be May 21, and I'll be listening for some booing.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> i sincerely hope that audience members will have the courage to make their disapproval of this hideousness known. The radio broadcast will be May 21, and I'll be listening for some booing.


...and yet from a post next door...
"I was at the second performance (in the Balcony) with my regular subscription partner plus three other friends (in the Grand Tier). (I had seen Act 3 on Opening Night.) My friends reserved judgment after the first act. One thought the video was too busy, she didn't know where to look; a video camera follows Lucia around a lot and the images are projected above. After the second act we were all loving it. The wedding scene with the sextet was fantastic, so much wonderful seedy detail, everyone totally committed. The chorus was clearly having a great time. Projection of videographer's wedding-guest footage above was very amusing. Costumes are often hilarious. Camarena interrupts the wedding in camo fatigues, looks perfectly in his character. This was no half-hearted adaptation like most updates, everyone was in it whole-hog. My friends thought it was great fun. One said, "When was the last time you could say that about the opera?" (The flub after the Mad Scene was cleaned up; Lucia never broke character.) All four leads were very good, but we like Javier in particular. He's always sincere, very appealing."

Reminds me of the time I walked into the Rat Pack Sinatra "Rigoletto" expecting to keep my eyes closed for the entire thing only to find that I actually found it a refreshing take because the radical updates did not interfere with the singers or the singing.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> ...and yet from a post next door...
> "I was at the second performance (in the Balcony) with my regular subscription partner plus three other friends (in the Grand Tier). (I had seen Act 3 on Opening Night.) My friends reserved judgment after the first act. One thought the video was too busy, she didn't know where to look; a video camera follows Lucia around a lot and the images are projected above. After the second act we were all loving it. The wedding scene with the sextet was fantastic, so much wonderful seedy detail, everyone totally committed. The chorus was clearly having a great time. Projection of videographer's wedding-guest footage above was very amusing. Costumes are often hilarious. Camarena interrupts the wedding in camo fatigues, looks perfectly in his character. This was no half-hearted adaptation like most updates, everyone was in it whole-hog. My friends thought it was great fun. One said, "When was the last time you could say that about the opera?" (The flub after the Mad Scene was cleaned up; Lucia never broke character.) All four leads were very good, but we like Javier in particular. He's always sincere, very appealing."
> 
> Reminds me of the time I walked into the Rat Pack Sinatra "Rigoletto" expecting to keep my eyes closed for the entire thing only to find that I actually found it a refreshing take because the radical updates did not interfere with the singers or the singing.


I'm not sure "fun" is what I want out of *Lucia di Lammermoor* and I doubt "fun" is what Donizetti was going for either, though he no doubt was with *Don Pasquale* and *L'Elisir d'Amore*. No doubt *Lucia *had become a bit of mindless fun by the time the likes of Callas, Sutherland, Karajan, Serafin and Zeffirelli made us all reassess the work, but I thought that view of _bel canto _opera had finally been put to rest.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'm not sure "fun" is what I want out of *Lucia di Lammermoor* and I doubt "fun" is what Donizetti was going for either, though he no doubt was with *Don Pasquale* and *L'Elisir d'Amore*. No doubt *Lucia *had become a bit of mindless fun by the time the likes of Callas, Sutherland, Karajan, Serafin and Zeffirelli made us all reassess the work, but I thought that view of _bel canto _opera had finally been put to rest.


But then again, it may sound unappetizing to you as the _Rigoletto_ originally did to me, but can you_ really_ know until you have seen it first hand?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> But then again, it may sound unappetizing to you as the _Rigoletto_ originally did to me, but can you_ really_ know until you have seen it first hand?


True. But these days tickets are so expensive, am I prepared to take the risk?

Incidentally, I'm not against updatings _per se_ as long as they treat the work seriously. I loved Jonathan Miller's New York mafia style *Rigoletto *that he did for the English National Opera, but Miller loves opera and appreciates music, which meant that Verdi didn't get lost in the "concept".


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> True. But these days tickets are so expensive, am I prepared to take the risk?
> 
> Incidentally, I'm not against updatings _per se_ as long as they treat the work seriously. I loved Jonathan Miller's New York mafia style *Rigoletto *that he did for the English National Opera, but Miller loves opera and appreciates music, which meant that Verdi didn't get lost in the "concept".


First of all, do you not have a movie theater nearby who sells HD tickets eally very inexpensively? The differenc between spending $178 and $25 for a seat is pretty convincing to load up on HD's. And it so happens that Lucia was one of the operas chosen for an HD performance.
Secondly, I sanction your feelings about the Rat Pack Sinatra _Rigoletto _where I walked into the HD theater expecting to close my eyes because I was so put off by the idea of a gambling casino, but shock of shocks, I actually loved it and found it not only to be fun but most important of all, the staging never once interfered with the music and the singing. 
So a director finally got it right -- ane believe me, that is rarer than rare.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> ...and yet from a post next door...
> "I was at the second performance (in the Balcony) with my regular subscription partner plus three other friends (in the Grand Tier). (I had seen Act 3 on Opening Night.) My friends reserved judgment after the first act. One thought the video was too busy, she didn't know where to look; a video camera follows Lucia around a lot and the images are projected above. After the second act we were all loving it. The wedding scene with the sextet was fantastic, so much wonderful seedy detail, everyone totally committed. The chorus was clearly having a great time. Projection of videographer's wedding-guest footage above was very amusing. Costumes are often hilarious. Camarena interrupts the wedding in camo fatigues, looks perfectly in his character. This was no half-hearted adaptation like most updates, everyone was in it whole-hog. My friends thought it was great fun. One said, "When was the last time you could say that about the opera?" (The flub after the Mad Scene was cleaned up; Lucia never broke character.) All four leads were very good, but we like Javier in particular. He's always sincere, very appealing."
> 
> Reminds me of the time I walked into the Rat Pack Sinatra "Rigoletto" expecting to keep my eyes closed for the entire thing only to find that I actually found it a refreshing take because the radical updates did not interfere with the singers or the singing.


"Seedy detail," "very amusing," "hilarious," "great fun"... I never knew that _Lucia_ was a comedy. In fact, I can't recall a single funny moment in it. Even Wagner has more laughs _("Das is kein Mann!'). _But anything in the world can be made into a joke if you have plenty of ketchup on hand.









As the saying goes, "There's no accounting for poor taste."


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> "Seedy detail," "very amusing," "hilarious," "great fun"... I never knew that _Lucia_ was a comedy. In fact, I can't recall a single funny moment in it. Even Wagner has more laughs _("Das is kein Mann!'). _But anything in the world can be made into a joke if you have plenty of ketchup on hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


B-b-b-but the gorgeous music and the singing!!!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> B-b-b-but the gorgeous music and the singing!!!



B-b-b-better without ketchup.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> First of all, do you not have a movie theater nearby who sells HD tickets eally very inexpensively? The differenc between spending $178 and $25 for a seat is pretty convincing to load up on HD's. And it so happens that Lucia was one of the operas chosen for an HD performance.
> Secondly, I sanction your feelings about the Rat Pack Sinatra _Rigoletto _where I walked into the HD theater expecting to close my eyes because I was so put off by the idea of a gambling casino, but shock of shocks, I actually loved it and found it not only to be fun but most important of all, the staging never once interfered with the music and the singing.
> So a director finally got it right -- ane believe me, that is rarer than rare.


Yes I do. Tickets are £37, which at today's rates is almost $50 and more than I'm prepared to pay for a production that has had pretty awful reviews and looks like something I'd hate, whereas Jonathan Miller's *Rigoletto *was universally lauded. As Woodduck says above, *Lucia di Lammermoor *isn't meant to be fun. Maybe the director wanted to send it up, but I sure as hell don't want to see it.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes I do. Tickets are £37, which at today's rates is almost $50 and more than I'm prepared to pay for a production that has had pretty awful reviews and looks like something I'd hate, whereas Jonathan Miller's *Rigoletto *was universally lauded. As Woodduck says above, *Lucia di Lammermoor *isn't meant to be fun. Maybe the director wanted to send it up, but I sure as hell don't want to see it.


I can't say that I blame you. I am also wavering what to do. Of course it is a way of avoiding some personal problems and I do so love the Lucia music.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I can't say that I blame you. I am also wavering what to do. Of course it is a way of avoiding some personal problems and I do so love the Lucia music.


I agree with Tsaras that I don’t want to see it, though tickets here are less expensive ($26, up from $20). Just one look at the publicity photo of Sierra and I said, “no thanks!” She’s also not good enough, given what we’ve seen in the past (sorry, but that’s fact). Productions like that just upset me - I just don’t want to be there!


----------



## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> B-b-b-better without ketchup.


HAHAHAHAHAHA yeah that was what I thought when I saw the mad scene too. So much fake blood that it looked completely fake whoops 

Funnily enough the ad on the right of this page is the Lucia...complete with the ketchup.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CctK7D4Dhne/


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Does look rather like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

As soon as I started watching the above clips I started laughing. I'm still laughing. I need the images to fade from my mind so that I can stop laughing. I can see why some people would enjoy this. It's as ridiculous as DavidA used to tell us opera actually is. Count me out.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

marlow said:


> Does look rather like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre!


Thanks. It reinforces my decision that I really don’t need to see this!


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

we can assess the singing Nina told us about minus the gore!


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

I note one of the chorus is wearing a mask to comply with covid regulations. Must confess I would find that screen a distraction.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Lovely s8nging but how the production militates against what is being sung.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

marlow said:


> Lovely s8nging but how the production militates against what is being sung.


It's happened again. I started watching the above clip, and the moment Sierra started singing the sweet, romantic music of Donizetti I burst out laughing. Maybe I shouldn't expose myself to shocks like this before breakfast, or maybe it's actually an invigorating way to start the day. You know, intensive interval training, that sort of thing.


----------

