# Ockeghem Missa Prolationum brilliant vs naxos? my verdict?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

No offence to Bo Holten he gave us some great recording the requiem on the cd was ockay but like many said in the past missa prolationum suffer on naxos it lack something, while the brilliant version all does bash on amazon rule and it's better?

The voices seem warmer, even if people brag about O magnum mysterium being old recording dating from 1971 and 1984 , this is not a defenitive truth.

See i preffer old Gesualdo record to new one , they have this old school perhaps amateurism in a sense of experimenting whit is music has someone unfamiliar whit, it dose has it's charm.

Sometime old recording can be quite enjoyable more so than later on generation cds , i find something pleasant it this box-set and discover missa i did not knew that blew me away.

This is not the utter best but fairly decent i would have to says , who whit me on this?

:tiphat:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm not following you. Are you saying that you like or don't like Bo Holten's M. Prolationum?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

For a few cents more you can buy The Hilliard Ensemble on ertao.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Mandryka i did not like Bo Holten version of missa Prolationum to be more clear.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

The Holten/Naxos version is "big band" Ockeghem. A lot of voices filling those parts. I think they *sound* good, but you lose a lot of the nuance of the mass.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

Am wit chew on dis won - i tink...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Mandryka i did not like Bo Holten version of missa Prolationum to be more clear.


Ah and you normally like large choruses (like Oxford Camerata) so maybe it has something to do with their modulations (or rather lack of modulations) I'll try to hear it later

Is there a Missa Prolationum on Brilliant?


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Mandryka of course there is O magnum mysterium contain it ,it's 4 cds box-set and many goodies too.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> No offence to Bo Holten he gave us some great recording the requiem on the cd was ockay but like many said in the past missa prolationum suffer on naxos it lack something, while the brilliant version all does bash on amazon rule and it's better?
> 
> The voices seem warmer, even if people brag about O magnum mysterium being old recording dating from 1971 and 1984 , this is not a defenitive truth.
> 
> ...


I just started to play this and thought of you, and your taste for the older style in early music, all those LPs you like. Anyway I think you will enjoy this Missa Prolationem


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

There have been a surprising number of excellent recordings of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum--it's not under recorded, unlike so many masterpieces from the Franco-Flemish era. So you should be able to find one that you like. I'm partial to the Missa Prolationum recordings by Hilliard Ensemble and Ensemble Musica Nova myself--most of all, but also The Clerk's Group. & I know others that think highly of The Sound and the Fury's recording, too. (I don't know the Cappella Nova recording that Mandryka mentions, but it looks to be very out of print, as it isn't even included in their website's discography.)

All of the above recordings can be heard on You Tube here in the States, and I hope where you are too:

Hilliard Ensemble: 




Ensemble Musica Nova, Lucien Kandel director:




https://outhere-music4.com/en/albums/ockeghem-missa-cuiusvis-toni-aecd0753

The Clerk's Group, directed by Edward Wickham: 




The Sound and the Fury: 




Hope that helps.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Josquin13 said:


> (I don't know the Cappella Nova recording that Mandryka mentions, but it looks to be very out of print, as it isn't even included in their website's discography.)


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

The Hilliard's version of the Missa prolationium is just about my favourite recording of any Renaissance mass.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

My favourite is this one


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is a so-called speculative mass, it's not based on a _cantus firmus_ but is rather the exploration of a musical idea (prolation) There's another Ockeghem cycle like this, _cuiusvis toni_.

I don't know if there are any other composers who left this type of speculative cyclical mass.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Josquin13 said:


> There have been a surprising number of excellent recordings of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum--it's not under recorded, unlike so many masterpieces from the Franco-Flemish era. .


It's very accessible, I suppose that's the reason.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Is there a Missa Prolationum on Brilliant?


This:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7994949--o-magnum-mysterium

Large choir dare I say, larger than Holten's..


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I just started to play this and thought of you, and your taste for the older style in early music, all those LPs you like. Anyway I think you will enjoy *this Missa Prolationem *
> 
> View attachment 118503


But where to get hold of it???


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