# Top 100 Composers from TC Ranking Composers' Works



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

_Thread has been discontinued and redirected here._


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## Long02 (Jun 23, 2018)

This is an interesting list but you are correct in that it’s flawed by being weighted too far on the quantity side. It might have been interesting to have measured each composers work by the mean value so it would show the average value scored by each composer (As an example Wagner would score 39.6 by doing 594/15). This would measure quality over quantity although it would likely cost the likes of Haydn with tons of pieces but at least this would provide an interesting comparison to this list and hopefully would give a clearer view as to who the community’s favourite composers are.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't think 'averages' will work. Prolific composers in the Top 10 will be averaging extremely low.

If more people wanted to listen to Wagner, they might put his extensive works well above the rest. But people don't care for Wagner enough to invest in these activities. So his operas are weighed accordingly. If they should be put into much higher tiers, then people would do that. But this list isn't expert opinions.


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## Long02 (Jun 23, 2018)

I understand what you’re saying but I just tried the same for Beethoven and I was surprised by the results. He has approximately 110 works and 4690/110 gives you 42.6 which is a couple of points better than Wagner. 
Also composers shouldn’t be punished for composing fewer works if what they produce is excellent compared to someone who’s churning out above average work after work. 
In spite of this I don’t think either method can give a perfect reflection of who the favourite composer. 

Also I hope you didn’t think I was being critical of your rankings it’s a very good list and helps give a good view of the best composers.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Wagner's entire output should be accurately valued by simply taking the sum of his tiers, because they're all within 'TC's Top Works', you get the full value of them from their tiers. There's a reason averages is not accurate, but I can't seem to explain it at the moment. Maybe you'll figure it out.

I also agree with taking the other perspective, that people don't know how to rank pieces hence they think _The Ring _is on level with anything else. Moreso, I think it's because they actually don't believe it's as great, so Wagner's _total output _is being accurately valued here. Standard math.


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## Long02 (Jun 23, 2018)

I’ve already found a flaw in the average anyway. Mahler scores about 50 whilst Bach would come in closer to 30. I’m just trying to work out if there’s some way to weight the average so that more prolific composers are favoured but also that values composers who have less works which are of greater popularity. Although I get your point I don’t think the general consensus would have Wagner at 38 as most lists I’ve seen place him top 10.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Long02, using averages does not seem like a good idea. Rather we should change our weighting system that favors quality more and quantity less. Recently one of our members, Couchie, performed a similar analysis using 1/(tier of the work) as the weight. The results can be seen here.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Now I have to apologize for making this thread, as I didn't realize Couchie calculated all the tiers in his list. I thought I remembered him doing just a quantity count. I think his method works quite well even though it's a data manipulation of sorts, as it doesn't take into consideration true length and value of pieces, but it's a great list. Perhaps the best one.

/ Disregard this thread.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Long02, using averages does not seem like a good idea. Rather we should change our weighting system that favors quality more and quantity less. Recently one of our members, Couchie, performed a similar analysis using 1/(tier of the work) as the weight. The results can be seen here.


What do you personally think of it as far as lists go?


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## Long02 (Jun 23, 2018)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Long02, using averages does not seem like a good idea. Rather we should change our weighting system that favors quality more and quantity less. Recently one of our members, Couchie, performed a similar analysis using 1/(tier of the work) as the weight. The results can be seen here.


Yeah looking at the list this is definitely much better than averages. I think by weighting it he's managed to make a very accurate representation of people's favourite composers


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

One of the drawbacks of using Science's project is that it is run in the polls/games subforum that many do not go to. 

Last year I embarked on a project to produce a ranked list of 100 favourite classical composers, based on the top 30 favourite composers of 56 TC members. This was done in the general Classical Music Forum to attract a wider audience, and of course, it focuses directly on composers rather than indirectly via a number of their works. The resulting list is probably best limited to the top 30.

001 Ludwig van Beethoven
002 Johann Sebastian Bach
003 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
004 Gustav Mahler
005 Johannes Brahms
006 Franz Schubert
007 Dmitry Shostakovich
008 Jean Sibelius
009 Robert Schumann
010 Claude Debussy

011 Richard Wagner
012 Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
013 Sergei Prokofiev
014 Joseph Haydn
015 Maurice Ravel
016 Antonín Dvořák
017 Igor Stravinsky
018 Frédéric Chopin
019 Felix Mendelssohn
020 Béla Bartók

021 George Frideric Handel
022 Anton Bruckner
023 Richard Strauss
024 Franz Liszt
025 Ralph Vaughan Williams
026 Sergei Rachmaninoff
027 Hector Berlioz
028 Gabriel Fauré
029 Arnold Schoenberg
030 Alexander Scriabin


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

"The music of (composer X) displays a quite remarkable complexity, subtlety, and refinement: he was a complete master, as much of melodic as of rhythmic counterpoint, his work is a landmark in the evolution of European music." ~ Pierre Boulez


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> One of the drawbacks of using Science's project is that it is run in the polls/games subforum that many do not go to.


Great point. Actually, I wondered why you didn't keep its discussion thread open.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Just read the last pages of "discussion" before it was closed.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> The resulting list is probably best limited to the top 30.


Yes; if you recall, it's best to keep out the "freaks" :lol:


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> One of the drawbacks of using Science's project is that it is run in the polls/games subforum that many do not go to.
> 
> Last year I embarked on a project to produce a ranked list of 100 favourite classical composers, based on the top 30 favourite composers of 56 TC members. This was done in the general Classical Music Forum to attract a wider audience, and of course, it focuses directly on composers rather than indirectly via a number of their works. The resulting list is probably best limited to the top 30.


I also did something like this, based on "rating" how much users enjoy composers from 0--100, about three years ago. ~70 people participated.

It was mostly a failed project due to arguments and figuring out how to penalize composers who scored high but only a few people were familiar enough with to vote for (Froberger at #20 is a case in point). Anyways, here were the results:

1 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 79.86
2 Ludwig van Beethoven 78.2
3 Johann Sebastian Bach 74.57
4 Franz Schubert 74.09
5 Gustav Mahler 72.77
6 Richard Strauss 70.66
7 Johannes Brahms 70.45
8 Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky 69.81
9 Joseph Haydn 69.77
10 Antonín Dvořák 69.38

11 Frédéric Chopin 68.97
12 Jean Sibelius 68.96
13 Sergei Prokofiev 68.9
14 Claude Debussy 68.58
15 Dmitri Shostakovich 68.48
16 Robert Schumann 67.35
17 Felix Mendelssohn 67.18
18 Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber 66.97
19 Edvard Grieg 66.37
20 Johann Jakob Froberger 65.89

21 Richard Wagner 65.85
22 Ernő Dohnányi 65.78
23 Gabriel Fauré 65.73
24 Sofia Gubaidulina 65.59
25 Ernest Bloch 65.54
26 Leoš Janáček 65.52
27 Josef Suk 65.48
28 György Ligeti 65.12
29 Henri Dutilleux 65.08
30 Ernest Chausson 64.99

It's a wacky list for sure. You guys really love Gubaidulina.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Portamento said:


> It's a wacky list for sure. You guys really love Gubaidulina.


Shhhhhhhhh......that type of thinking may lead to a logical conclusion at odds with the concept of polling "accuracy".


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