# The definitive composer ranking?



## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

*Spotify: The definitive measure of composer popularity?*

Browsing the annals of Spotify (which is wonderful for sampling and then choosing among a massive range of classical recordings), and upon spotting the measure of 'monthly listeners' on each artists' cover page, it struck me that herein lies perhaps one of the most definitive measures of composer popularity. It's reach is perhaps unprecedented, in terms of sheer scope. It isn't limited to listeners of certain radio programmes or readers of certain publications, etc. Moreover, it's a measure free from the grinding of axes, so to speak. It's a silent measure of how people vote with their feet (or fingers/hands, as it were).

Of course, this assumes Spotify users constitute a representative sample of the entire classical-listening population (one might suspect the sample is skewed somewhat towards younger classical listeners).

Also, the validity of this measure depends on 'monthly listeners' disregarding repeated listens to the same artist from the same user. But I assume it does - otherwise the measure might be labelled 'monthly listens' as opposed to 'monthly listeners'.

A further problem that is, I think, ruled out is a bias towards short pieces over long (it's easier for a short piece to have more plays than a Bruckner movement). If the measure were 'monthly listens' as opposed to 'listeners', this might be a problem. But luckily the measure is listeners.

I think the biggest problem is with taking the number of listeners to be informative about such listeners' ultimate ranking of composers. I.e., More people might listen to Vivadi each month, but rank Mahler higher. More people probably eat crisps more often than they eat caviar, without this meaning caviar is not approved of more highly. The analogy is not perfect, as crisps are more physically accessible than caviar while, on Spotify, Bach is just as physically accessible as Mahler. And anyway, what people _explicitly state_ as their preference might not be the most reliable guide to their preference. If I say Bach is my favourite composer but I listen to Handel much more often, is Bach _really_ my favourite? Philosophical questions about agency abound here.

Without further ado, here are the results for those interested in such sociological matters. Composers ranked (highest to lowest) by number of unique listeners, per month... (commas have confused some people sorry. 4,365 million = 4.365 million. 0,080 million = 0.080 million (or 80 thousand)).

JS Bach: 4,365 million
Beethoven: 4,119 million
Mozart: 4,044 million
Chopin: 3,806 million
Debussy: 3,028 million
Tchaikovsky: 2,216 million
Vivaldi: 2,057 Million
Schubert: 1,971 million
Glass: 1,785 million
Liszt: 1,714 million
Saint-Saens: 1,549 million
Brahms: 1,521 million
Grieg: 1,520 million
Handel: 1,396 million
Rachmaninoff: 1,281 million
Ravel: 1,268 million
Schumann: 1,252 million
Faure: 1,250 million
Dvorak: 1,243 million
Puccini: 1,232 million
Mendelssohn: 1,213 million
Pachelbel: 1,089 million
Elgar: 1,048 million
Verdi: 0,963 million
Wagner: 0,824 million
Shostakovich: 0,759 million
Prokofiev: 0,718 million
Bizet: 0,707 million
Strauss II, J: 0,700 million
Barber: 0,691 million
Haydn: 0,689 million
Vaughan Williams: 0,638 million
Rossini: 0,610 million
Strauss, R: 0,580 million
Scarlatti, D: 0,570 million
Franck: 0,515 million
Part: 0,508 million
Holst: 0,474 million
Mahler 0,472 million
Stravinsky: 0,458 million
Sibelius: 0,445 million
Mussorgsky: 0,432 million
Bartok: 0,352 million
Boulez: 0,337 million
Bruch: 0,329 million
Purcell: 0,327 million
Telemann: 0,315 million
Rimsky-korsakov: 0,281 million
Monteverdi: 0,274 million
Ligeti: 0,272 million
Smetana: 0,252 million
Bruckner: 0,245 million
Berlioz: 0,245 million
Britten: 0,241 million
Scriabin: 0,208 million
Couperin, F: 0,202 million
Corelli: 0,146 million
Schoenberg: 0,142 million (ha!)
Ives: 0,130 million
Berg: 0,088 million
Respighi: 0,087 million
Hindemith: 0,041 million
Webern: 0,030 million
Honegger: 0,016 million

Note I had to search individual composers, so those not included are not necessarily less popular than Schoenberg and others on the list. I just didn't think to check them.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The absence on the list of Mendelssohn is puzzling. Typo? Schoenberg precedes Mendelssohn?


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

I forgot to look him up. Will do so and edit original post. Thanks.


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

RogerWaters said:


> JS Bach: 4,365 million
> Beethoven: 4,119 million
> Mozart: 4,044 million
> Chopin: 3,806 million
> ...


Groan. Another modern music hate thread.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

as good a list as any. It is nice to see that Mahler is finally rated rightly in this list, though I would certainly place Bartok, Sibelius, Schoenberg and Purcell above him


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Boludo said:


> Groan. Another modern music hate thread.


Why is it a hate thead to point out more people on spotify will listen to the music of Corelli over Schoenberg?


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Why is it a hate thead to point out more people on spotify will listen to the music of Corelli over Schoenberg?


Disingenuous much?


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Boludo said:


> Groan. Another modern music hate thread.


Oh come on, there has to be a little bit of sport in it for us 

Lighten up!


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

RogerWaters said:


> the measure of 'monthly listeners' on each artists' cover page,


How do you get to this info?


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

janxharris said:


> How do you get to this info?


This is a screenshot from the tablet app, but you can find the information on a computer too.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Glad to see Puccini added. And others.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Glad to see Puccini added. And others.


Yeah, he's already there...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Curious where these composers fall on the list, if you get the time to look them up (I don't have spotify): Scriabin, Monteverdi, D. Scarlatti, Britten, Pärt (I expect him to be decently high on the list and rightly so). Otherwise, your list was pretty exhaustive. Good job remembering everyone.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> Curious where these composers fall on the list, if you get the time to look them up (I don't have spotify): Scriabin, Monteverdi, D. Scarlatti, Britten, Pärt (I expect him to be decently high on the list and rightly so). Otherwise, your list was pretty exhaustive. Good job remembering everyone.


Let's add Respighi to that question also!


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Curious where these composers fall on the list, if you get the time to look them up (I don't have spotify): Scriabin, Monteverdi, D. Scarlatti, Britten, Pärt (I expect him to be decently high on the list and rightly so). Otherwise, your list was pretty exhaustive. Good job remembering everyone.


Added. Thanks for the suggstions.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Let's add Respighi to that question also!


Respighi Added. I realised i forgot many eastern euro composers too.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I use Spotify most to listen to new recordings. I others are the same then the results of this survey will be skewed towards composers who have had a lot of new recordings out recently. It is also, of course, skewed toward those composers who wrote more music ... and especially more major works.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

RogerWaters said:


> Added. Thanks for the suggstions.


Roger, you get a gold star and our (or my, anyway) gratitude for both your idea to post this list but also your willingness to update/revise it. Many Thanks!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Just about as good as list as I’ve seen, though I think it’s short of names, especially the sort of names after listeners have become experienced and discover some of the perhaps lesser names who are still geniuses such as Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa ... But here’s why in general I don’t care for the attempts at an exact ranking even if sometimes that can be interesting or useful: the great composers rarely if ever remind you of anyone else. Mahler doesn’t remind me of Beethoven. Prokofiev doesn’t remind me of Shostakovich. Scriabin doesn’t remind me of Rachmaninoff, and so on. The great composers, regardless of the rankings, have a signature sound and a signature identity… and when you’re listening to each one, there’s no competition between them. If one composer reminds you of another composer too much, it can be a distraction and it can be irritating. But with the great ones, this rarely if ever happens, and then it doesn’t matter where they fall on the list, as far as I’m concerned, because it’s so easy to appreciate the absolute individuality of each one and you’re getting their undiluted point of view of the world and it’s a beautiful unified whole.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Pärt in front of Mahler! Didn't see that coming.

Well deserved I reckon. He is a hell of a composer, though I understand his music is not held in high esteem here. 

Scriabin is a little bit lower than I expected... I guess that's what happens when you live in a bubble :lol:

Definitely expected Britten to be beyond the bottom 5. Scarlatti is pretty freakin' high but I forget there are a lot of pianophiles in the world to account for.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

RogerWaters said:


> This is a screenshot from the tablet app, but you can find the information on a computer too.
> 
> View attachment 116832


Thanks.

Just wondering if there might be some skewing in favour of composers with a large output who also have a number of popular 'hits'. A lot of folk are listening to Bach's Cello suite and WTC preludes (not surprising since they sound very alike).

Don't want to be cynical - so just innocently exploring this.


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

RogerWaters said:


> Oh come on, there has to be a little bit of sport in it for us
> 
> Lighten up!


Sport? What is the prize for the winner? Will there be a doping control?

These questions need to be answered.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> I use Spotify most to listen to new recordings. I others are the same then the results of this survey will be skewed towards composers who have had a lot of new recordings out recently. It is also, of course, skewed toward those composers who wrote more music ... and especially more major works.


Not sure you are correct, as Holst (listened to for pretty much just The planets) and Pachelbel (no prizes for the relevant work here) score well. But I agree with your first point, about people possibly using it to check out new recordings.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

De Falla? Khachaturian? Villa-Lobos? Franck? 

Sorry!


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

I'm pretty sure Ludovico Einaudi has more plays - Ludovico Einaudi - currently the world's most popular classical composer.

Can't check at the moment because his page on spotify doesn't seem to be working.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

janxharris said:


> I'm pretty sure Ludovico Einaudi has more plays - Ludovico Einaudi - currently the world's most popular classical composer.
> 
> Can't check at the moment because his page on spotify doesn't seem to be working.


3,900 million! But i've never even heard of him! It's hard to know what counts as classical music in the post-modern age. Sounds like nostalgic, overly warm film score music to me, but then again this isn't unusual for pomo classical, and post modernism in general which was a return to 'home' and 'place' after the 'elitism' and avant-guard nature of high modernism. You'd as soon hear this chap's music performed in an inner city bookshop as in a concert hall, just like the post-modern shopping mall blended the boutique with fast food.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

RogerWaters said:


> 3,900 million. But i've never even heard of her.


Him.


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

RogerWaters said:


> 3,900 million! But i've never even heard of him! It's hard to know what counts as classical music in the post-modern age. Sounds like nostalgic, overly warm film score music to me, but then again this isn't unusual for pomo classical, and post modernism in general which was a return to 'home' and 'place' after the 'elitism' and avant-guard nature of high modernism. You'd equally hear this performed in an inner city bookshop as soon as a concert hall, just like the post-modern shopping maul blended the boutique with fast food.


Einaudi is a geezer.

I knew this was going to be a hate thread.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

RogerWaters said:


> 3,900 million! But i've never even heard of him! It's hard to know what counts as classical music in the post-modern age. Sounds like nostalgic, overly warm film score music to me, but then again this isn't unusual for pomo classical, and post modernism in general which was a return to 'home' and 'place' after the 'elitism' and avant-guard nature of high modernism. You'd as soon hear this chap's music performed in an inner city bookshop as in a concert hall, just like the post-modern shopping mall blended the boutique with fast food.


Porno classical :lol:

The Postmodern is surely just as misunderstood as the Modern was in its heyday. (I'm not a fan of much of it either, but the parallels are fascinating... how will this all be seen in 50 years?)


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

RogerWaters said:


> 3,900 million! But i've never even heard of him! It's hard to know what counts as classical music in the post-modern age. Sounds like nostalgic, overly warm film score music to me, but then again this isn't unusual for pomo classical, and post modernism in general which was a return to 'home' and 'place' after the 'elitism' and avant-guard nature of high modernism. You'd as soon hear this chap's music performed in an inner city bookshop as in a concert hall, just like the post-modern shopping mall blended the boutique with fast food.


You're not going to add him to the list?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

From the Einaudi thread:

"According to the article his spotify following rivals Mozart and he is a regular at the concert hall - Moscow, Bejing, Rome and New York. Five days of shows at the Barbican this summer sold out almost immediately."


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Porno classical :lol:
> 
> The Postmodern is surely just as misunderstood as the Modern was in its heyday. (I'm not a fan of much of it either, but the parallels are fascinating... how will this all be seen in 50 years?)


Agreed. And i possibly came across more negative than i meant to in my last post. It's not bad music, although it's sometimes a bit naff and, especially, effeminate. Also i feel the general sound is often produced more effectively with electronic instruments. I suspect there is a desire to hang onto classical instruments in addition to synths etc, possibly to leave one foot in the concert hall.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Aaron Copland... 

George Gershwin...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Anyone else surprised to see Fauré placed so high on the list? He beats out Dvorák, Verdi, Wagner, Mendelssohn, Shostakovich... What Fauré are people listening to so much? 

Same question goes for Saint-Saens. 1.5million listeners can't all be for Carnival of the Animals...?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

RogerWaters said:


> Webern: 0,030 million


Proud member of the 30k


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

RogerWaters said:


> Without further ado, here are the results for those interested in such sociological matters. Composers ranked (highest to lowest) by number of unique listeners, per month...
> 
> JS Bach: 4,365 million
> Beethoven: 4,119 million
> ...


With green: Well done
With red: Not well done :lol:

With all my respect to the people voted and our fellow poster, this list says nothing to me. Could be although very useful for commercial use.

*The place of Rach is a little bit strange. I imagined a higher position. He is very popular composer.

Thanks for the interesting post!


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Ariana Grande has over 50 million monthly listeners :devil:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

John Cage has 0,1269  Denisov has 0,000713...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

It's an interesting list, due to Spotify's general volume of listeners.

A bit surprising that Bruckner is still considered so esoteric; Scriabin is doing quite fine though, better than say Respighi. Faure and S-Saens being that popular is very surprising; maybe Spotify has success in France, or some music has been featured due to special occasions.

Also I'd like to know about 

Rued Langgaard
Carl Nielsen, 
Per Nørgård/Norgard 
plus 
Allan Pettersson and 
Kaikoshru Sorabji, 

only if you have the time available, of course ... thanks for your attention.


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> Proud member of the 30k


A comma is a thousand separater. So that would be 30 million. Only the OP knows why he precedes that with 0,0 .


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Boludo said:


> A comma is a thousand separater. So that would be 30 million. Only the OP knows why he precedes that with 0,0 .


No, it's the European way of commas. 
0,01 million is 10,000 for Europeans (or as we'd write: 10.000)


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Langgaard has 2067 monthly listeners. That's 0,002067 million like on the original list. Just search on spotify for the composers and it's listed. Ariana Grande is 1st in the world...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Langgaard has 2067 monthly listeners. That's 0,002067 million like on the original list. Just search on spotify for the composers and it's listed. Ariana Grande is 1st in the world...


Thanks for the Langgaard info, I'm not on Spotify though.

Concerning AG, I've heard the name mentioned, but that's about it


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The close bracketing of Saint-Saens, Brahms, and Grieg is interesting. I suspect that a big part of the closeness can be explained by the repeated requesting of one or two biggies by SS (Organ Symphony) and Grieg (piano concerto). When one considers that Brahms composed about a dozen comparable biggies as opposed to the others' one or two (my opinion), it seems that the closeness can only be explained by the above thesis. Any other theories?


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> Thanks for the Langgaard info, I'm not on Spotify though.
> 
> Concerning AG, I've heard the name mentioned, but that's about it


I just googled "Per Nørgård spotify", so it seems you can get the info too, just scroll down. He has 10606 monthly listeners. Pretty popular for a modernist


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

OK, good, I tried googling 'Spotify -Sorabji', but didn't get the result I wanted, so ruled that option out.
But I'll try again then.

EDIT: Oh yes, found it - in tiny, grey writing above the composer name.

Sorabji: 5484 monthly listeners = 0,005 million
Pettersson: 3083 ditto = 0,003 million
Carl Nielsen: 94070 = 0,094 million


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

The result of "Sorabji spotify" on google.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

If anyone wants to go googling for more composers, please feel free to let us know the results. I'm sure there will be some surprises. Give the contemporary composers a chance! Penderecki has over 48000, which is a nice number  Boulez has 340000  ...I can see Boulez has a lower number in the OP...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Holmboe: 740  = 0,001 million
Poul Ruders: 6505 = 0,007 million
Ib Nørholm: 134 = 0,000 million
Bent Sørensen: 2893 = 0,003 million

Stenhammar: 38095  = 0,038 million
Ingvar Lidholm: 866 = 0,001 million
Berwald: 9557 = 0,010 million
Hilding Rosenberg: 1512 = 0,002 million
Ture Rangström: 2329 = 0,002 million

Fartein Valen: 1570 = 0,002 million
Harald Sæverud: 2319 = 0,002 million

Saariaho: 12688 = 0,013 million
Rautavaara: 34051 = 0,034 million


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Ørjan Matre 365  Wow, more pop than Nørholm...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Boludo said:


> A comma is a thousand separater. So that would be 30 million. Only the OP knows why he precedes that with 0,0 .


:lol: OK, and JS Bach has 4.3 billion? Right...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Satie - 1896224 = 1,896 million (the _Gymnopedie _effect)
John Field - 101.077 = 0,101 million (the _Nocturne_ effect)
Albinoni - 342996 = 0,343 million (the _Adagio_ effect)

Stockhausen - 25229 = 0,025 million 
Crumb - 16386 = 0,016 million
Gorecki - 384702 = 0,384 million
Ades - 287881 = 0,288 million
Gubaidulina - 5031 = 0,005 million 
Berio - 20000 = 0,020 million
Messiaen - 175480 = 0,175 million
Rihm - 3242 = 0,003 million

Boccherini - 291635 = 0,292 million
Weber - 136271 = 0,136 million

Janacek - 124260 = 0,124 million
Martinu - 19396 = 0,019 million 

Delius - 234818 = 0,234 million 
Bax - 18978 = 0,019 million


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> :lol: OK, and JS Bach has 4.3 billion? Right...


Yes, just in Europe!


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> Satie - 1896224 = 1,896 million (the _Gymnopedie _effect)
> John Field - 101.077 = 0,101 million (the _Nocturne_ effect)
> Albinoni - 342996 = 0,343 million (the _Adagio_ effect)
> 
> ...


Good call, I meant to ask about Satie. He breaks the top 10 and deservedly so. He is one of the "composers for non-classical-fans" and helped myself and many others get into classical music.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Palestrina - 112104 = 0,112 million
Lassus - 30271 = 0,030 million
Tallis - 69213 = 0,069 million
Dowland - 152856 = 0,152 million (the lute/guitar effect)
Frescobaldi - 42526 = 0,043 million

Silvestrov - 208764 = 0,209 million 
Xenakis - 34477 = 0,034 million
Corigliano - 25131 = 0,025 million
Nono - 4370 = 0,004 million


Here's assembling some female composers then:

Ljubica Maric - 9 = 0,000 million
Dlugoszewski - 17 = 0,000 million
Narbutaite - 34 = 0,000 million
Betsy Jolas - 196 = 0,000 million
Kapralova - 500 = 0,001 million
Maconchy - 611 = 0,001 million 
Else Marie Pade - 642 = = 0,001 million (a pioneer of early electronic music)
Beamish - 1164 = 0,001 million
Gloria Coates - 2045 = 0,002 million 
Joan Tower - 2479 = 0,002 million
Bacewicz - 4564 = 0,005 million
Saariaho: 12688 = 0,013 million
Farrenc - 13076 = 0,013 million
Higdon - 14553 = 0,015 million
Fanny Mendelssohn - 41407 = 0,041 million
Hildegard von Bingen - 116300 = 0,116 million
Clara Schumann - 123660  = 0,124 million


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> If anyone wants to go googling for more composers, please feel free to let us know the results. I'm sure there will be some surprises. Give the contemporary composers a chance! Penderecki has over 48000, which is a nice number  *Boulez has 340000 * ...I can see Boulez has a lower number in the OP...


I think this is likely because of him being a conductor too, not his compositions. Don't know Spotify's systems, but very likely they sometimes mix his work in both fields. Same with *Bernstein*, perhaps. That's also why I didn't look up *Maderna*, another conductor/composer. It must be said though that *Ligeti* is doing very fine, close to Boulez, and there cannot be any major errors with him.

As regards *Stockhausen*, a possible scarcity of available recordings on Spotify might be an extra factor.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> I think this is likely because of him being a conductor too, not his compositions. Don't know Spotify's systems, but very likely they sometimes mix his work in both fields. Same with *Bernstein*, perhaps. That's also why I didn't look up *Maderna*, another conductor/composer. It must be said though that *Ligeti* is doing very fine, close to Boulez, and there cannot be any major errors with him.
> 
> As regards *Stockhausen*, a possible scarcity of available recordings on Spotify might be an extra factor.


Of course it's Boulez the conductor. Damn!


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

So let me get this straight. This list was compiled by looking up the number of listeners of all the composers you could think of. You recorded their number of listeners and then ranked them. This list isn't compiled by Spotify. So that explains some of the omissions other people have noted here. 

I listened to Poulenc this morning on Spotify. Please don't forget to add me. 

I suppose it's an interesting way to collect data on popular composers. But ultimately all this list tells us is who's listening to whom on Spotify. It's quantitative while not being particularly useful.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

RogerWaters said:


> Glass: 1,785 million
> Liszt: 1,714 million
> Saint-Saens: 1,549 million
> Brahms: 1,521 million


The last vestige of faith I had in the human race has now perished.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Improbus said:


> The last vestige of faith I had in the human race has now perished.


The human race listens to Ariana Grande, Khalid, J Balvin and Post Malone


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

I decided to look for the rankings of Mexican (and Latin American) composers to add to this list. In doing so, I discovered that Spotify shows the top five cities in the rankings of each. This sent me on another investigation, and to my astonishment, in a large number of instances, Mexico City ranks amongst the top five cities. For Mexican composers, this is to be expected, but this is also true across the board. In fact, in some cases Mexico City comes out on top, such as in the rankings of Beethoven and Bach. 

Food for thought.


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

Then on to my listing of some Mexican and Latin American composers. I have only included those that have more than 1000 listens in a month.

Astor Piazzolla - 334,822
Heitor Villa Lobos - 234,611
Arturo Marquez - 57,793
Alberto Ginastera - 46,113
José Pablo Moncayo - 37,805
Osvaldo Golijov - 16,554
Carlos Chavez - 14,435
Silvestre Revueltas - 11,034
Camargo Guarnieri - 4,509


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

There's over 21 million living in Mexico City


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## fliege (Nov 7, 2017)

The other source of information is www.last.fm, which has been around far longer than Spotify.


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

I also looked at composers from the Netherlands. Based on at least 1000 listens a month, this list is not very large.

Simeon ten Holt - 17,775
Louis Andriessen - 10,225
Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, - 10,169
Unico Wilhelm van Wassenaer - 8,183
Julis Röntgen 1,004


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

Two names I have not seen on the list; Both need to be better represented. Weinberg, IMHO, is badly underrated.

Mieczysław Weinberg 39,222
Geirr Tveitt - 18,947


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## distantprommer (Sep 26, 2011)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> There's over 21 million living in Mexico City


True, but we must take into account that a large part of this population is economically deprived and most probably will have less possibilities to listen to Spotify or any other channel of classical music.

My take on the high position of Mexico City is that there is no other reliable source to listen to classical music on radio or online.

Tokyo is a city with a population slightly larger than Mexico City, and is also often in the top five. The Japanese are both ecoonomically and culturally better able to buy into classical music than most Mexicans at this time.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Rodrigo - 694304 = 0,694 million
Ponce - 146191 = 0,146 million

Gluck - 333141 = 0,333 million
Reger - 32790 = 0,033 million
Wolf - 26439 = 0,026 million
Spohr - 12331 = 0,012 million
Zemlinsky 6114 = 0,006 million
K.A. Hartmann - 1982 = 0,002 million
Hauer - 157 = 0,000 million

Mascagni - 409380 = 0,409 million
Donizetti - 246382 = 0,246 million
Bellini - 227278 = 0,227 million
Pergolesi - 131937 = 0,131 million
Leoncavallo - 124243 = 0,124 million
Tartini - 76699  = 0,077 million
Busoni - 40081 = 0,040 million
Martucci - 12962 = 0,013 million
Scelsi - 7160 = 0,007 million
Malipiero - 3173 = 0,003 million

Copland - 309446 = 0,309 million
Nancarrow - 73667  = 0,073 million
Grofe - 45721 = 0,045 million
Rochberg - 37664 = 0,038 million
Hovhaness - 21644 = 0,022 million
Carter - 13653 = 0,014 million
Partch - 10230 = 0,010 million


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

distantprommer said:


> I also looked at composers from the Netherlands. Based on at least 1000 listens a month, this list is not very large.
> 
> Simeon ten Holt - 17,775
> Louis Andriessen - 10,225
> ...


Dutch music is just too unknown, there are fine composers from there.


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## zelenka (Feb 8, 2018)

Spotify track play numbers is a very good indicator but I don't think we should take it very seriously (for example see Glass rankings) since most tracks are played inadvertently in lists, repeats and so on. A more serious ranking is that done by the number of composer followings on classical music only https://classicalmusiconly.com/lists/top/composers and https://classicalmusiconly.com/lists/top/works but the results aren't very far either


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Personally I'm interested in how lesser known composers are doing, and to identify a few surprises.

For example, I thought that Tartini was mostly a composer appreciated by the elder generations, and less popular now.

I can't say that I think the results are 'fair'.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Collectivity means nothing. well actually collective influences can be bad for you. take fast food, accepted for decades now as *edible food*. When we all know its not, , proven FF is very detrimental to the health. 
same for music, follow the losers, the crowds and you lose. Everytime.
That list is propaganda. 
I never like Bach, even Kark Ristenparts 3 cd set Art of Fuge brought me around to like Bach. Nor Sviatoslav Richter's Well Temp Clavier, made Bach of interest. .
Sure Hilly Hahn's magisterial recording is something of a phenomenon, I don't own the cd,,, I guess to my loss. 
That list is pointless.
Yes I have a ax to grind, as few of my top 5 made the list, and some of my top 5 would not make a *top 1000 pop composers*


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

What??............


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

eugeneonagain said:


> What??............


We're looking at popularity on spotify


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

eugeneonagain said:


> What??............


Lists are nothing to the individual. Only the individual can make changes, Collectivity defines that original list. = scratch most of it,

Brave New World means the old must bow to the new.
Schnittke is far superior to Beethoven,. Elliott Carter superior to Bach. 
This is what I am trying to say.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Jacck said:


> as good a list as any. *It is nice to see that Mahler is finally rated rightly in this list*, though I would certainly place Bartok, Sibelius, Schoenberg and Purcell above him


LOL, of course he is NOT "rated rightly" here. It's just a spotify "popularity" list, i.e. lots of non-experienced classical music listeners taken into account here. 

You also see Glass ranked above Brahms, Wagner, Verdi, Schumann, Dvorak, etc, etc. on this list :lol:


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

paulbest said:


> Lists are nothing to the individual. Only the individual can make changes, Collectivity defines that original list. = scratch most of it,
> 
> Brave New World means the old must bow to the new.
> Schnittke is far superior to Beethoven,. Elliott Carter superior to Bach.
> This is what I am trying to say.


That's a matter of opinion, which in some cases I might even agree with. You'll have a problem showing what 'superior' means unless you make a definition and deliberately exclude all other views.

I'm only baffled at the business of discussing a Spotify list. How utterly boring and useless.

I don't really care about where the composers I listen to appear in a list.


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## Boludo (Apr 4, 2019)

I'm surprised that no-one has suggested that we start voting on the list yet.

Let's hope Bullie doesn't see this thread.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I think it's cool that Per Nørgård has more than 10000 monthly listeners on spotify


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> I think it's cool that Per Nørgård has more than 10000 monthly listeners on spotify


Individual pieces of his on You Tube have more views than that. I don't use Spotify, I don't want to pay for it.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

eugeneonagain said:


> That's a matter of opinion, which in some cases I might even agree with. You'll have a problem showing what 'superior' means unless you make a definition and deliberately exclude all other views.
> 
> I'm only baffled at the business of discussing a Spotify list. How utterly boring and useless.
> 
> I don't really care about where the composers I listen to appear in a list.


I've heard this argument for decades now. Opinion is only just that, nothing more. Can't be proved in a court.
Well here 's something to think on. takea Brahms, Dvorak, Beethoven, Chopin, Strauss, Mahler, Bruckner, Schubert, Haydn. 
If one has some keen musical memory, , and some experience in classical music, say 5 yrs worth. Listen to any of those named compoers, once, twice, three times, and I bet you can hum the thing through w/o any piano help,,And further, listen the 4th time you already know whats coming even before the chords come off. No surprises, no excitement, no mystery. *been there done THAT*, Now so with Webern, nor Carter, Schnittke,,,,,Henze ESPECIALLY, you can not memorize Henze, unless you possess a musical memory like say Schnittke had. 
Pettersson, perhaps you might know whats coming after 5+ hearings, but the depths, the width, , like traversing the Himalayan mt range. 
Bach is like a nice country meandering path among the Irish hillsides. 
This is how I hear Pettersson, Himalayan, and Bach as idyllic Ireland.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Why are you registered as posting from an English-speaking country (and using a common English name). but writing like you have you eyes closed?

Anyway... that is still just an opinion. The boring truism that people can memorise things they've heard a lot is not really worth mentioning. You're also telling the wrong person because I am not rabidly defending old warhorses (certainly not the hack Schubert).


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Surprises aren't always good. Surprise attacks by the enemy, surprise tornadoes, surprise herpes... I'd say surprise is a rather poor criterion, but if that's what you like, then so be it.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Boludo said:


> I'm surprised that no-one has suggested that we start voting on the list yet.
> 
> Let's hope Bullie doesn't see this thread.


I've been aware of this thread since its inception.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> I've been aware of this thread since its inception.


Are you hatching a plan?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

eugeneonagain said:


> Are you hatching a plan?


No, that won't happen (at least not today).


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

So, this is what I understand you are telling us : it is the number of times spotify users are accessing a composers works per month. Spotify popularity. Ok that is interesting. I would have guessed beethoven over Bach. Shows what I know.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> So, this is what I understand you are telling us : it is the number of times spotify users are accessing a composers works per month. Spotify popularity. Ok that is interesting. I would have guessed beethoven over Bach. Shows what I know.


I wonder if length of works has anything to do with it.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> So, this is what I understand you are telling us : it is the number of times spotify users are accessing a composers works per month. Spotify popularity. Ok that is interesting. I would have guessed beethoven over Bach. Shows what I know.


I believe it is individual listeners, not total plays. I definitely would have guessed Beethoven too.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

In the whole wide world, Ludwig is always #1, followed closely by Mozart, been that way, will stay that way for quite some time, Bach will fight it out for 3rd place among Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, Dvorak, etc.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> No, that won't happen (at least not today).


_'So Sally can wait
She knows it's too late as she's walking on by
My soul slides away
But don't look back in anger
Don't look back in anger
I heard you say

*At least not today*'_


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## Dima (Oct 3, 2016)

Dimace said:


> *The place of Rach is a little bit strange. I imagined a higher position. He is very popular composer.


This is because spotify still does not work in Russia. In one of russian online classical archive the first top composers are (more listeners):
1.Bach
2.Mozart
3.Beethoven
4.Chopin
5.Tchaikovsky
6.Rachmaninov

e.t.c

P.S. It is interesting does spotify work in China?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

AeolianStrains said:


> Surprises aren't always good. Surprise attacks by the enemy, surprise tornadoes, surprise herpes... I'd say surprise is a rather poor criterion, but if that's what you like, then so be it.


You are taking things too seriously. I don't see any worries on that level here, but thanks for the warning.

The information however is comprehensive enough so that one can find stuff that one finds puzzling, or even uplifting, if one should dare to feel any curiosity, at some moment. Or one can ignore it, since it doesn't necessarily represent the last word in these matters, only some aspects.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Surprises are a part of getting to know a piece of music (or a performance, come to that). Some people find them obstacles to enjoying the music and are glad when they have got past that early stage. Others love the surprises and feel that when they are no longer surprising they must have tired of the music.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

What's Hindemith doing so far down the list, eh? 
Mrs Pat has been trying to entice me into experimenting with Spotify. But do I want to be in the company of listeners who access Wagner more often than Hindemith, Honegger or Ives?


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## zelenka (Feb 8, 2018)

also here is another ranking with lots of users participations but the result isn't very far from spotify and classicalmusiconly https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/my-favorite-classical-composers-of-all-time


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

joen_cph said:


> You are taking things too seriously. I don't see any worries on that level here, but thanks for the warning.
> 
> The information however is comprehensive enough so that one can find stuff that one finds puzzling, or even uplifting, if one should dare to feel any curiosity, at some moment. Or one can ignore it, since it doesn't necessarily represent the last word in these matters, only some aspects.


The tornado comment, not least the herpes one, should have tipped you off that in no way shape or form was that a very serious retort.

Do Schnittke's works cause tornadoes? Shoot, maybe so!


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

AeolianStrains said:


> Do Schnittke's works cause tornadoes? Shoot, maybe so!


Schnittke has the powers to shatter everything you knew before,,as music. Idols will crumble. Won't mention any composer names, but those fan-atics know who I am talking about
Schnittke is like a Cat 5, nothing remains.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

paulbest said:


> Schnittke has the powers to shatter everything you knew before,,as music. Idols will crumble. Won't mention any composer names, but those fan-atics know who I am talking about
> Schnittke is like a Cat 5, nothing remains.


Au contraire. Everything remains except people who take seriously people who say that nothing remains.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

AeolianStrains said:


> The tornado comment, not least the herpes one, should have tipped you off that in no way shape or form was that a very serious retort.
> 
> Do Schnittke's works cause tornadoes? Shoot, maybe so!


I was teasing you too.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

joen_cph said:


> I was teasing you too.


Oh, shoot, so the deafness in reading teasing in text messages is on my end. Undskyld, min ven.


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