# SS 03.08.13 - Mozart #41



## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

*Wolfgang Mozart (1756-1791)*

Symphony No. 41 in C major, K. 551

1. Allegro vivace, 4/4
2. Andante cantabile, 3/4 in F major
3. Menuetto: Allegretto - Trio, 3/4
4. Molto allegro, 2/2


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Ah, Mozart Symphony 41 "Jupiter"

I'm going to carry over from last week and listen to:

View attachment 22129


George Szell & The Cleveland Orchestra


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

Im going for - Haitink and The Royal Concertgebouw, I love their Tchaikovsky so hopefully...........


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

I will join you. I only have the Bernstein/ Vienna Philharmonic recording so I'll listen to that.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

I'll use this as an excuse to check out a new recording (well, performance).

*Paavo Jarvi, Frankfurt Radio Symphony*


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

I'll listen to Sir Charles Mackerras with the Prague Chamber Orchestra.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

I'll go with Karajan and the Berliner Philharmoniker. It's very "Karajan-esque"!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2013)

I'll be going with Rene Jacobs' recording on Harmonia Mundi. Currently my favorite.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Wiener Philharmoniker; James Levine, 1989.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Charles Mackerras


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Charles Mackerras


Great you have joined us, @neo!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I'll go for the earlier Mackerras recording on Telarc with the Prague Chamber Orchestra. It's a great symphony, and I'm looking forward to hearing it again!


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

Please don't wait for me to make the first commentary - if you have yours ready, please go ahead.

Don't beat me with a stick, but this is only the third time I've listened to this symphony, more of a Mozart piano concerto person myself. This is why I created the whole Saturday symphony idea so I can listen myself and read the reviews of those with more knowledge than I.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

I listened to Bruno Walter with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (in stereo) and Böhm with the Berliner Philharmoniker, so we have most of the famous Mozartians listed. I've heard all the others mentioned here except Haitink, and always used to prefer Bernstein, followed by Szell and Jacobs. Unfortunately I don't particularly like the adagio -- I seem to forget about it quickly, anyhow -- so that the first and last movement have rather 'become' this symphony for me, given the minuet isn't particularly noteworthy either: that way, that is what I'll primarily judge the performances on.

Walter shows here why people remember his Mozart so fondly. The coda is quite possibly the best I've heard: he brings out the different textures like no other recording I know of: never before has the brass sounded so clear, though it doesn't obfuscate the others. The initial presentation of the themes after the triplet in the first movement is played delightfully rhapsodic, and the sound from the strings is unbelievable, helped by the fact that he has his string section divided, as was once customary, but rarely heard on early stereo recordings, only revived with HIP recordings.. (Amidst the musicians that did not follow Stokowski's setup were Furtwängler and Toscanini, but of course their discography is dominated by mono recordings.) This is important too because the two string sections occasionally interact, most notably in the finale. (Jacobs has this too, naturally.) My earlier statement about the minuet has to be retracted, because the lyrical way in which Walter conducts it is truly astounding, though the adagio remains a bore to me. I'll have to listen to it a few more times, but hearing it now, for the first time in quite a while, I think this may well become my favorite recording. 

Böhm is technically immaculate but not exciting enough to rank with my other favorites, unfortunately... That is, until the coda: my god! Böhm was known for his unique handling of the coda, and did he earn that reputation! His minuet is nowhere near as good as Walter's though.. And the other parts can be a little.. 'stilted', if I may call it that. Both Walter and Böhm skip the repeats, which I have no problem with at all, now that I know the symphony as well as I do (Bernstein's recording of 40 and 41 was the first classical recording I ever bought), though sometimes I wish the finale could be a little longer. There is also a mono performance of Walter playing 41, this time with the New York Philharmonic, but on first hearing I like that one considerably less; the tempi are faster though.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

I blush to say I barely know this piece. 
I will listen to the first one that pops up on Spotify.
I last listened to the Jupiter in about 89.

I'VE BEEN BUSY, OK!!!!?!


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Kieran forgives you. (I hope!)


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Bix said:


> Please don't wait for me to make the first commentary - if you have yours ready, please go ahead.
> 
> Don't beat me with a stick, but this is only the third time I've listened to this symphony, more of a Mozart piano concerto person myself. This is why I created the whole Saturday symphony idea so I can listen myself and read the reviews of those with more knowledge than I.


I hadn't read this before I posted. I'm glad I'm not alone. I've listened to Mozart's operas, piano concertos, and chamber music lots. But apart from the 40th, I've not explored his symphonic output any more than cursorily.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

A brilliant symphony even when it is not one of my favourites. Four movements. I felt the first one -allegro vivace- quite tense in the very beginning shifting quickly into lighter them and leaving those temperate first bars into the characteristic beauty and charm of himself. Even though the tension is kept subtlety all along the movement.

The andante cantabile is a return to Mozarts' highest skills. Looks like he finally finds himself again. A superb andante.

The menuetto is calm, airy and with his remarkable ease as if he just lets the movement evolve by itself in its own logic.

Suddenly for the final movement Mozart is again at his best with his joyful splendorous charm, which is the movement I must enjoy. Like telling us 'hey, don't worry, I am back again!'

By the time of this symphony -1788- we have Hayden's 90 and 91; also Oxford a year later. It took for Mozart forty one symphonies to reach Haydn's scale after nearly ninety.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

René Jacobs and Freiburg Baroque Orchestra. 

It may not be most people's first choice, but I love it. Dramatic, passionate, animated, beautiful.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Hope I'm not jumping in uninvited.....

Several years ago I refused to renew my symphony subscription because the prior year they had pulled two last-minute switches on us - Faure's Requiem for Brahms' German Requiem and Mozart's 41st for Mozart's 39th (my favorite Mozart symphony).

I always considered the 41st to be played too often and not musically very attractive.

But, seeing this thread, I decided to give it another try. I chose to listen to Jaap Ter Linden and the Mozart Akademie Amsterdam - actually, I'm listening to the first movement as I type - over my beloved Szell (whose version I've heard many times before). I actually think this symphony benefits considerably from period instruments like the version I'm hearing now. The lingering, slightly astringent flavor of the violins makes the first movement's themes much more exciting in my opinion. And, this performance so far is very lively with the brass and percussion punctuating the phrases with a kind of crisp decisiveness I'm not used to.

Now, on to the second movement....After a nearly 12 minute first movement (taken with the repeat), now the second movement clocks in at over 10 minutes. For all that, it moves very nicely along. If there is one superiority of the 41st over the 39th, it's probably in this Andante Cantabile. Again, the performance suits my taste perfectly. I really like the sound. Nothing overblown or heavy - a nice, light reading.

The menuetto is also nicely done - with lilt and great definition. The trio? Good.

The final movement starts out impressively. If he can hold me through this movement, I'm going to declare it a winner. Wow, what clarity. It seems like I can hear every single instrument. Hmm..takes the repeat again. Interesting. What a difference the defined, non-boomy bass is in this movement. Oops..I think somebody went a little sharp. I can live with that. Very nice conclusion. I liked this Jupiter better than any I've heard before.

I still prefer the more engaging, less ponderous 39th, but this has given me a new feeling about the 41st. Thanks for bringing it up this way. This has been fun.

(Sorry CoAG, for adding on to my post after you gave it a like. You may not have liked the second part. I just didn't want to take up two spots for my comments.)


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I re-listened to George Szell's classic recording this morning for the first time in a few years. Szell always seems to have such energy in his recordings. Even though he wasn't exactly a young man when he was making his "famous" recordings, he never seemed to lose that air of excitement and wonder. I wish he had recorded more of Mozart's symphonies. I'd have loved to hear him do 25, 29 and 36. He really had a feel for Mozart in my opinion.

It has been a little while since I had listened to Symphony 41. I enjoyed the symphony so much I re-listened to Bruno Walter's recording as well. Both were excellent


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

As this symphony is essentially new to me (as I've only heard it a small number of times) I will comment on the piece itself from my personal point of view and not comment on the orchestra and conductors rendition.

Allegro vivace, 4/4
The cycle of theme, bursts/fanfare/lyric progresses and develops well technically but from a personal enjoyment point of view by the end of the series of recapitulations I found that I was bored.

Andante cantabile, 3/4 in F major
Good example of a sonata form for orchestra, parts of the cantabile were reminiscent of some Mozart operas, Don Giovanni specifically. A nice use of triple meter but as someone said previously nothing that would stick in my head after a listening.

Menuetto: Allegretto - Trio, 3/4
Strangely enough, for the more conventional movement, this this sticks in my mind more. I not overly fond of it but its good to be able to remember some parts of piece you have just listened to.

Molto allegro, 2/2
To me in this part came some redemption - again a good example of a sonata with five minter woven fugues, just genius.

All in all I'm not sure about the symphony and Mozart as a combination but I haven't listened to enough of them to fully comment - I love Mozart's piano works, operas etc but I will listen to them as they come up in this Saturday ritual.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Bix/ said:


> All in all I'm not sure about the symphony and Mozart as a combination but I haven't listened to enough of them to fully comment - I love Mozart's piano works, operas etc but I will listen to them as they come up in this Saturday ritual.


Box - I encourage you to try the 39th sometime, but be careful what performance you listen to. I strongly recommend Szell or the new one by Abaddo.


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

I was also relatively new to the symphony, so I can't really comment on how Bernstein's performances compares to others. I did notice that he made the symphony sound very romantic, especially in the opening rising violin parts.

Overall, I really liked the first movement (especially the minor key stops and starts) and the 2nd movement (although I still prefer the similar slow movement of PC 21). The 3rd and 4th movements didn't grab my attention as much. I will listen to it again later as I can sense that there's something I'm missing.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2013)

Vesteralen said:


> Box - I encourage you to try the 39th sometime, but be careful what performance you listen to. I strongly recommend Szell or the new one by Abaddo.


I will have to pleasantly dissent from the Abbado recommendation. While his recording of Mozart's violin concertos with Carmignola is excellent, his recording of the symphonies left much to be desired. Szell is good. Bohm is also good. I still prefer Jacobs for the last 4. But while I enjoy the 41st, I prefer the 40th and the Haffner.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Bix said:


> As this symphony is essentially new to me [...]





Vesteralen said:


> Hope I'm not jumping in uninvited..... [...]


@Vesteralen, @Bix, it seems we got more less the same listening experience from the symphony


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah I definitely earlier Mozart Symphonies. Though I love that last movement. It's kind of sad thinking that Mozart was reminiscing in that last movement imo. It's like he knew this would be his last Symphony and wanted this for him to be remembered by. At least the vibe I get.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

realdealblues said:


> I re-listened to George Szell's classic recording this morning for the first time in a few years. Szell always seems to have such energy in his recordings. Even though he wasn't exactly a young man when he was making his "famous" recordings, he never seemed to lose that air of excitement and wonder. I wish he had recorded more of Mozart's symphonies. I'd have loved to hear him do 25, 29 and 36. He really had a feel for Mozart in my opinion.


His 34 with the RCO is sooooooooooo good. I still can't believe it.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

*Sinfonia of London, Anthony Collins, 1959.

*I'm a week late with this. Sorry about that Bix, but I have just got hold of a new version, and no-one has reviewed it so far.

This is a performance which is not so famous by a band more known for film music. Nevertheless, it sounded fine to my battered ears. I particularly enjoyed the second movement here, with the melodies played straight and lovely either side of a central section which squeezed out all available drops of emotion, and a bit more.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

hayd said:


> *Sinfonia of London, Anthony Collins, 1959.
> 
> *I'm a week late with this. Sorry about that Bix, but I have just got hold of a new version, and no-one has reviewed it so far


No apologies needed, the beauty of a forum is that there is no such thing as a late post, thanks for joining us


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Movement 4 is to me one of the greatest things I've ever heard.

Can anybody tell which recording this is?


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## DaDirkNL (Aug 26, 2013)

Probably going to listen to Mackerras and the Prague Chamber Orchestra, since everything else I listen to seems slow in comparison.


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