# c20th Violin Concertos poll/discussion...



## Sid James

I've put these into regions to fit more in the poll. Let's discuss what we like here. Feel free to add/discuss any that I've missed. The regions refer to where these composers were born, not necessarily where they lived most of their lives (depending on which ones). I made a seperate category for the c20th Viennese School. & it's a public poll. (BTW - I haven't listened to all of these, but most of them).

*Russia, Ukraine, etc.*
-	Eg. Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Khachaturian, Myaskovsky, Vainberg, Schnittke, Gubaidulina

*Eastern Europe*
-	Eg. Bartok, Janacek, Martinu, Szymanowski, Rozsa, Lutoslawski (_Chain II_), Penderecki, Ligeti

*Scandinavia/Baltic*
-	Eg. Sibelius, Nielsen, Vasks, Rautavaara, Pettersson, Tuur

*USA*
-	Eg. Bernstein (_Serenade_), Barber, Carter, Sessions, Rochberg, Adams, Glass, Lees

*Twentieth Century (Second) Viennese School*
-	Berg, Schoenberg

*UK*
-	Eg. Rubbra, Bax, Vaughan Williams (_Lark Ascending_), Elgar, Delius, Britten, Walton, Rawsthorne, Maw, Ades

*Middle Europe* (Austria, Germany, Switzerland)
-	Eg. Bloch, Korngold, Hindemith, Weill, Henze, Martin

*Continental Western Europe* (France, Spain)
-	Eg. Dutilleux, Milhaud, Rodrigo

*Asia / Australasia*
-	Eg. Chen Gang & He Zhanhao (_Butterfly Lovers Concerto_), Takemitsu, Ross Edwards (_Maninyas Concerto_), Peter Sculthorpe (_Irkanda IV_)

*Other region/s*


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## FrankieP

I wish I could vote for 2nd Viennese School 3 times, cos the Berg is the most incredible violin concerto that's ever walked the planet...


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## Art Rock

UK - and the (usual) omission of EJ Moeran is a pity.


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## Weston

I hit Eastern Europe accidentally. I intended to vote for the Berg. I've never fully embraced the Second Viennese school, but the Berg is awesome. But hey - Martinu and Rosza are not too shabby either, so I'll stick with my vote.


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## elgar's ghost

Had the Second Viennese school been lumped in with Middle Europe I'd have probably voted for them with Russia/Ukraine (or should we call it the 'Ex-Soviet Union' allowing for Khachaturian being Georgian- born of Armenian extraction?) a very close second. I'd say Russia/Ukraine are even better at cello concertos!


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## jurianbai

I love violin concerto.
very hard to choose if it were grouped. Because in each group I got favorites.

in Russian I like: Khachaturian, Myaskovsky, Glazunov, Prokofiev, Arensky
then Bartok 2nd, Sibelius, Korngold, Walton, Barber, Rozsa, Bloch, RVW are also my favorite.

so maybe I will choose World.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

An interesting poll for this special genre; special because I think 20th century works especially orchestral ones produced a very wide range of styles indeed, and the old violin concerto continued to dominate as showmanship for moods, forms, techniques and schools of composition (second perhaps to the piano concerto). I haven't listened to as many as from earlier periods but probably just enough to make me fairly confident of my comment about sheer range of "everything".

I seemed to know the eastern European part better, with a few of the others thrown in. So I picked Russian, Ukraine, then Eastern Europe, and finally the 20th century Viennese School. I didn't vote the UK because I find the works to be overtly sentimental in a different way that's hard to describe, and consistently so that is undeniably British in all the instrument genres of the period. It's enjoyable but I prefer the ones I voted for.


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## Sid James

Thanks guys.

For me, the c20th Viennese School is a no-brainer, so too the USA composers, who have yielded lots of fruits for me in the violin concerto genre (& other genres too). My third choice could have been basically any of the others, so I did a bit of a patriotic (or parochial?) thing and chose Asia / Australasia.

I must admit that I completely forgot about Italy - I'm not sure of any c20th violin concertos, or substantial works for violin & orch. from composers of that country that has entered the repertoire (or at least made some impact). Correct me if I'm wrong, eg. Respighi? Dallapicolla? Berio?...


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## mmsbls

My choice (UK) was quite easy on the strength of Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Walton, and Moeran (Art Rock, thanks for reminding me of this lovely work). But really my favorites are spread throughout the world - Sibelius, Korngold, Barber, Chen Gang & He Zhanhao, and Myaskovsky. When there is talk of great violin concertos I'm reminded of Berg, whose concerto simply does not move me. Every time I listen, I think, "This will be the time I get it." But alas, not yet.


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## Sid James

mmsbls said:


> ...When there is talk of great violin concertos I'm reminded of Berg, whose concerto simply does not move me. Every time I listen, I think, "This will be the time I get it." But alas, not yet.


Well, it took me a while to be emotionally moved by the Berg concerto. Same with his _Chamber Concerto_, which has a lot of humour but wasn't readily discernible for me upon the first listen. A live performance of it last year kind of helped. In any case, I now really like the Berg violin concerto, esp. in terms of how it relates to the story of Manon Gropius, for whom this is basically a requiem.

BTW - What do you think, *mmsbls*, of Schoenberg's violin concerto? Is your feeling towards it same as for the Berg? I like the Schoenberg concerto even more than the Berg, even if only or mainly for it's last movement, which for me mirrors the composer's position as an exile in the USA, away from the political turmoil in Europe, about which he was helpless to do anything...


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## Manxfeeder

Sid James said:


> I like the Schoenberg concerto even more than the Berg.


I do also. I've tried to get into the Berg, even heard it live, but it still hasn't clicked. But Schoenberg's has.

So I voted for the 2d Viennese School because that one makes my ears perk up, though I don't want to discount Sibelius, Barber, Korngold, or the second movement of Glass' violin concerto, so I added the US and Scandanavia.

I guess that leaves out Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky. Rats.


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## BubbleBobble

Prokofiev's VC number 1 is the only god tier VC I've ever heard

I have yet to be even CLOSE to as impressed with a violin concerto as I am with that one


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## mmsbls

Sid James said:


> BTW - What do you think, *mmsbls*, of Schoenberg's violin concerto? Is your feeling towards it same as for the Berg? I like the Schoenberg concerto even more than the Berg, even if only or mainly for it's last movement, which for me mirrors the composer's position as an exile in the USA, away from the political turmoil in Europe, about which he was helpless to do anything...


Sorry, Sid, I saw this post and somehow managed to forget to respond. I have heard the Berg perhaps 5 times, but Schoenberg maybe just twice. I would say I have essentially the same feeling towards both in the sense that neither moves me much. Certainly I would say I don't "get" either. Many think that Berg's is the best or one of the best violin concertos of the 20th century whereas I don't think I've ever heard the Schoenberg discussed as a great concerto. Since the Berg gets such high praise, I perhaps feel a greater desire to explore it and "understand" it.


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## mmsbls

BubbleBobble said:


> Prokofiev's VC number 1 is the only god tier VC I've ever heard
> 
> I have yet to be even CLOSE to as impressed with a violin concerto as I am with that one


Are you including all violin concertos or just 20th century concertos in that assessment?


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## BubbleBobble

all violin concertos

I can't find any that are completely captivating like that one is

I never used to really like the violin until lately though..


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## Sid James

Maybe this is the only poll where the c20th (Second) Viennese School can be a contender for first place? It's in the lead by one vote as I write. The other leaders are the Russian group and the Eastern European group. Looks like a lot of our members like the "dark" or "darker" side of the violin concerto genre?



Manxfeeder said:


> I do also. I've tried to get into the Berg, even heard it live, but it still hasn't clicked. But Schoenberg's has....


Well, I think that Schoenberg's concerto conveys for me this raw emotion, it's kind of less refined than the Berg (eg. with Berg going "back to Bach" at the end of his VC, and a reprise of the "tuning up" that begins the work). In other words, the high voltage emotion of Schoenberg's VC is what "grabs" me a lot, even though I react to it differently every time I listen to it, sometimes I feel that in the end the struggle is resolved, sometime it leaves me dangling up in the air, sometimes I'm in between the two. I kind of like this ambiguity.

I think it's great that Hilary Hahn has put down such a fine recording of this work, and also toured it around Europe to great acclaim. This is no easy feat for a violinist as young as her, but maybe that kind of flexibility has worked in her favour. The Schoenberg VC will never be as widely known or accepted as Berg's, but Ms Hahn has done a huge amount of work to get it back in the spotlight where it does have a place.

*@ BubbleBobble* - Perhaps why you like Prokofiev's VC #1 above all others is that it has this strong element of detachment and other-wordliness. When listening to it, I feel it takes me way up to the stratosphere, perhaps to another planet. It's kind of a neutral feel, not a good or bad space, it just "is." The slow-fast-slow structure was also pretty unique at the time, it would become a template, for example, of all three of Walton's string concertos.



mmsbls said:


> Sorry, Sid, I saw this post and somehow managed to forget to respond. I have heard the Berg perhaps 5 times, but Schoenberg maybe just twice. I would say I have essentially the same feeling towards both in the sense that neither moves me much. Certainly I would say I don't "get" either. Many think that Berg's is the best or one of the best violin concertos of the 20th century whereas I don't think I've ever heard the Schoenberg discussed as a great concerto. Since the Berg gets such high praise, I perhaps feel a greater desire to explore it and "understand" it.


Well that's okay, I wouldn't bother pressuring myself to "get" these works, whether they're highly regarded or not. Maybe the c20th Viennese guys are too kind of "serial" for you, not up your alley. Since your main preference in this genre is the UK guys, they're quite different, they didn't get as heavily involved with the serial technique, although eg. Britten admired Berg's work, probably the VC included, but he didn't go "all the way" with serialism, as far as I can tell.


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## haydnfan

Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Stravinsky and Sibelius absolutely crush the competition imo. I'm not going to forget composers like Szymanowski either... in fact it would be a real shame if the 2nd Viennese school wins because while they have quality they don't have quantity or diversity like you would get by simply voting by region.


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## clavichorder

haydnfan said:


> Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Stravinsky and Sibelius absolutely crush the competition imo. I'm not going to forget composers like Szymanowski either... in fact it would be a real shame if the 2nd Viennese school wins because while they have quality they don't have quantity or diversity like you would get by simply voting by region.


I don't know much about 20th century violin concertos, but my favorite so far has to be Britten's violin concerto. Its full of good themes and yet its so far out and attractively nebulous as Britten tends to be.


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