# superficial kinds of Non-Western classical music



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Are there any kinds of Non-Western classical music you consider to be "superficial" or "superficially pleasing" compared to others?
For instance, are there any musicians or works in Indian classical music whom/that you consider as more superficial than other musicians or works in Indian classical music?
People often talk of such types in Western classical music, I'm curious if they do the same in non-Western classical music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Everything by Somei Satoh and Fazil Say and Ikhwani Safaa.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Everything by Fazil Say.


100% agreed.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Everything by Somei Satoh and Fazil Say and Ikhwani Safaa.


I'm not talking of composers or works of Non-Western influenced Western classical music. 
Here's an example of what I mean by "Non-Western classical music"-


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Well I don't think what you mean is clear then -- is this an example? Or is it too western? 

Im Hashem Lo Yivneh Bayis - Shira Choir | מקהלת שירה מבצעת את ׳אם השם לא יבנה בית - YouTube


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> I'm not talking of composers or works of Non-Western influenced Western classical music.
> Here's an example of what I mean by "Non-Western classical music"-


It strikes me as a music that's more in tune with the nature of the universe and our reality. Is that what I want? 

Would I rather have the (Western) CM tradition of building something artificial and very human with the basic intervals of well-tempered tunings? I don't know, it clearly depends upon my mood. I appreciate both in very different ways. I'm glad there's both worlds available -- and that it's a very clear choice, at least for me..


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Well I don't think what you mean is clear then -- is this an example? Or is it too western?
> 
> Im Hashem Lo Yivneh Bayis - Shira Choir | מקהלת שירה מבצעת את ׳אם השם לא יבנה בית - YouTube


How did the Jewish people find these harmonies and adopt them for their own? Probably from other cultures long ago. 

In my imagination these harmonies arose because of the simplicity of what was available harmonically at the time, but the concepts, as they've been refined, are long enduring. A miracle of experimentation. 

In my free time I play a lot of this style, because it's so catchy and so invigorating, so open-ended to express with..


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## RandallPeterListens (Feb 9, 2012)

At the risk of wading into deeper waters than I should entering...
Since you start off by mentioning Indian classical music, I would say that Ravi Shankar was one of the greatest musicians of any musical tradition. Interestingly, he was influenced by (and often criticized for his leanings toward) Western music. Perhaps that's why he remains for many in the West the most approachable of Indian classical musicians, in my opinion. (although Ali Akbar Khan playing the sarod was no slouch on approachability, either). However, he never compromised on his musicianship. Yes, he shortened ragas for Western ears and wrote a "concerto" for sitar, but his improvisational ability was always focused on the mood and melody (? theme? hook?) of the piece he was playing.
However, (and it's hard not to come across as unkind) Ravi Shankar's daughter, Anoushka, just does not have "it" as a sitar player. She is "superficial" in the sense I think you are using the term - not a great player and coming across too hard as a crossover artist.
Not to unfairly single her out, a highly regarded sitarist is Shahid Parvez. However, for me, he often embodies another kind of "superficiality" - technically brilliant, he often seems to sacrifice the coherence and organization of the music to just sheer fireworks. Kind of like the Jimi Hendrix of the sitar.
From another tradition, I used to enjoy reggae music in its early days. A band like Toots and the Maytals had a rough and raw appeal that got lost as recordings became slicker and more professional and reggae became a worldwide phenomenon.
This is not to say that all "popular" or "crossover" music in non-Western traditions is bad or superficial. I am thinking of a CD titled "Mystic Sarod" by Amjad Ali Khan which is not strictly traditional but still very good and a CD titled "Songs of the Sephardim" by a group called La Rondinella which is wonderful but I think not absolutely faithful to the tradition it comes from. Ofra Haza very quickly moved away from traditional Yemeni music, but, of course, a wonderful voice doesn't hurt singing anything.
Sticking to Western classical music, there is (or was) an ensemble called the Baltimore Consort which somewhat superficialized (a nonce word?) baroque and early classical music. But their recordings were very good and eminently enjoyable.
To sum up, superficiality comes about when the musician moves away from the intrinsic beauty of the music and traditional performance styles and dilutes or "adjusts" their playing to try to reach a wider audience, They risk losing their core, traditional fans but never convincing their expanded audience of why they were so great to begin with. Ravi Shankar was one of the select few who subtly incorporated elements of other traditions (such as some elements of Western harmony and melody) without ever diluting his roots.


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