# Please help me get into classical music



## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi everyone!

I'm an 18 year old music student, and I really want to be able to get into classical music. There are some pieces of classical music that adore, but mostly that's because they have very memorable 'catchy' melodies, and thus have made their way into popular culture through advertising etc. (A few examples of things that I like include Rossini's Overture to La Gazza Ladra, Debussy's La Fille Aux Cheveaux de Lin and Satie's Gymnopedie'). I also love an awful lot film music with really big, memorable tunes. (Memorability is a big thing for me, that's why I've been listening to modern classical/instrumental pop artists like Einaudi). 

HOWEVER, the amount of love I have for these pieces is nowhere near the adoration I feel for pop or electronic music. I really want to get into classical music, because I know the strong emotions that it can provoke (and plus I will be studying a lot of classical music for my A levels). However, 99% of classical pieces I listen to make me feel instantly bored, as they don't have anything memorable about them. (Perhaps this is because the melody isn't as immediate?) 

I would like to ask, if anyone could please help, how I can help myself to really enjoy and appreciate classical music. I guess one of my problems is that with electronic music, software allows you to create any sound in the world, whereas with classical, you're pretty much limited to the orchestra. (And every performance is unique, so you can't have a perfect, polished product like with pop). 

Does anyone know what I can do?


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

You'll have to listen to the music, there's no other way ;-)

Here are some works of the "big names" that aren't really in the popular collective consciousness. If you spend a few weeks with these pieces it could be the beginning of a journey where you'll probably find your own way.

If you don't like it immediately, give it some time, some pieces you should listen to 4 or 5 times until you hear the magic, especially if you are used to the attention span of a pop-song.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> However, 99% of classical pieces I listen to make me feel instantly bored, as they don't have anything memorable about them.(


Beware though, because once you really get into classical music, chances are that pop-music will bore you to death! :lol:


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> I guess one of my problems is that with electronic music, software allows you to create any sound in the world, whereas with classical, you're pretty much limited to the orchestra. (And every performance is unique, so you can't have a perfect, polished product like with pop).







Nothing more beautiful then 4 voices blending together, no electronics or software involved


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

These are all pieces that should be pretty accessible and melodic to someone who isn't used to listening to classical music. If you are just starting out, I would stick to the big names like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich. One of the main reasons that less well known composers aren't as popular is because they are not as accessible, although if you listen to enough classical music, it is easy to listen to a new composer and not be bored once you learn what to listen for.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

If you're looking for big melodies, start out with The Russians. Tchaikovsky--Piano Concerto No. 1; Tchaikovsky--Nutcracker Suite; Prokofiev--Lieutenant Kije Suite, Piano Concertos 1,2,3; Shostakovich--Piano Concertos 1 and 2; Rimsky-Korsakov--Russian Easter Overture; Stravinsky--Firebird, Petrouchka, The Rite of Spring. So many more. So much melody. Nobody does melodies like The Russians.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

No one can force anyone to like classical music. It's just a sound that you start to like and appreciate more. It's a start that you like the 'big choons' and soundtrack music and if that's how it starts then great but you shouldn't be expecting to get it all straight away. Start with the big symphonies or works with the most immediate melodies and then, after repeated plays, if you 'get' them, start branching out a bit and exploring other works by these composers. If the like of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies, Dvorak's 8th and 9th symphonies and his Slavonic Dances and Brahms Hungarian Dances still leave you cold then maybe it's not for you.


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

You’re stuck on memorability, but that’s not the right approach to classical music. The approach should be one of learning, exploring, and discovery. This takes time. The first listening will be difficult. The second and third time through you are still learning. With the twentieth listening you are still discovering themes you missed previously. This is the enjoyment of classical music. 

Suggest the Dvorak Symphony 8 or 9. If your attention span is short, listen only to the first movement and don’t go on to the next until you feel you like you’ve learned something with the first. There’s no other way than to devote some time.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> HOWEVER, the amount of love I have for these pieces is nowhere near the adoration I feel for pop or electronic music. I really want to get into classical music, because I know the strong emotions that it can provoke (and plus I will be studying a lot of classical music for my A levels). However, 99% of classical pieces I listen to make me feel instantly bored, as they don't have anything memorable about them. (Perhaps this is because the melody isn't as immediate?)


I really think you have to change your attitude toward classical music. If not, nothing will help you.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I really think you have to change  your attitude toward classical music. If not, nothing will help you.


right, right and right. unfortunately people love their emotions produced by listening to music, any music, but not music itself. That's a pathetic truth. I know what I'm talking about because one of my friends almost identically speaks of CM as an OP.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

I made my way backwards. Start with emotional romantic music. It was only after listening to a great deal of Mahler, Wagner and Tchaikovsky that I could truly appreciate the classicists, and Baroque came after that. The older the music, the dryer it is, and the more of an acquired taste it is. As you get older, you start to prefer the older pieces, but young people are always more drawn to the grand emotional statements of romantic music.

Something to understand about classical music is that you will never appreciate a piece the first time you listen to it, especially as a beginner. This is why you must focus on one piece, and replay it 7-8 times in the background over a few days or weeks while you do something else, like study or work. Then, all the lines will stick in your head and you will begin to recognize everything within the complexity of the music without effort. It's only after these many background replays that you can truly sit down, listen to a piece with all your attention (which you must listen with all your attention after a few background replays if you are really going to appreciate it), and love it.

Also, a beginner shouldn't start out as an elitist. You should begin by listening to pieces that many on this board would deem "populist". These pieces are as famous as they are for a reason, and are an adequate introduction to classical music.

Start out with Mahler's Adagietto, the Bernstein version - 




Also, as you get into it more, I'd advise you to watch some of Bernstein's Norton Lectures, especially every explanation that is accompanied by playing on the piano. The goal is not so much to understand the music theory, but to attach a historical and emotional importance to this music, which Bernstein achieves better than anyone I have ever seen.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

ChrisGraham said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm an 18 year old music student, and I really want to be able to get into classical music. There are some pieces of classical music that adore, but mostly that's because they have very memorable 'catchy' melodies, and thus have made their way into popular culture through advertising etc. (A few examples of things that I like include Rossini's Overture to La Gazza Ladra, Debussy's La Fille Aux Cheveaux de Lin and Satie's Gymnopedie'). I also love an awful lot film music with really big, memorable tunes. (Memorability is a big thing for me, that's why I've been listening to modern classical/instrumental pop artists like Einaudi).
> 
> ...


I started out liking the sort of things you like, and it took me a while to get further, too. It was just a gradual process. You have to be patient, and try to maintain your enthusiasm.
Seeing as you like pop and electronic music, you may very well like some of the modern classical that's played on the Internet radio station Q2 Music.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Razumovskymas said:


> You'll have to listen to the music, there's no other way


Pretty much. I can't relate to an 18 year old's world view or attention span, but there's no way around putting in the time to learn the repertoire. But it's easier these days. Just type in "best of classical music" at YouTube and you'll find three hour compilations of famous classical pieces. Or pick one composer and listen to a compilation. Mozart, Beethoven, Rossini, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, etc... You'll hear plenty of catchy melodies.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Razumovskymas said:


> Beware though, because once you really get into classical music, chances are that pop-music will bore you to death! :lol:


On the other hand, chances are also that you will learn to love both classical and pop.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

ChrisGraham said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm an 18 year old music student, and I really want to be able to get into classical music. There are some pieces of classical music that adore, but mostly that's because they have very memorable 'catchy' melodies, and thus have made their way into popular culture through advertising etc. (A few examples of things that I like include Rossini's Overture to La Gazza Ladra, Debussy's La Fille Aux Cheveaux de Lin and Satie's Gymnopedie'). I also love an awful lot film music with really big, memorable tunes. (Memorability is a big thing for me, that's why I've been listening to modern classical/instrumental pop artists like Einaudi).
> 
> ...


Been there, done that, more or less. Your brain isn't taking in all the audio information so it ends up being bored by what is objectively speaking a very rich stimulus. So here are some tips:

1) Pay attention to everything, not just top voice but bass line too and harmony and counterpoint. You can do this to some extent by switching your focus quickly from melody to harmony and back, then keeping the harmony in your mind until it changes, then taking a peek at harmony again, and try similarly with counterpoint to hear the important bits and sort of keep it all in your mind.

2) Make sure you perceive fast passages properly, so that 16th notes appear in your mind as groups of four in common time and so on.

3) You could try consciously following pieces, slow or fast, via the method mentioned in (2).

4) Try to hear harmonic tension and release. Pop music doesn't do much with this if at all, so it may be something you need to learn to hear. Cadences are the easiest places to look at for this effect, but some chromatic notes in Mozart for example are much the same. Or any bit of melody that is played atop of dissonant harmony and waiting for release.

5) Try to hear what mood the piece or passage is trying to express and try to get into it, maybe by imagining some fitting picture or scene to go with it. I know it sounds cheesy, but if it makes listening to a lot of this music more enjoyable, then you'll more easily achieve (6):

6) Listen to a lot of classical music using the above methods. Your brain will create new pathways, you start to perceive it differently, and you'll start to enjoy different kinds of pieces instead of just memorable melody.

7) Kind of the same as (1), but listen to Bach fugues now and then and try to pay attention to everything that goes on. You'll get better at it after a year or two, maybe faster. There comes a point when confusing or boring becomes comprehensible and potentially enjoyable.

You may never have much love for most of classical music (I'm not sure I do), but at least you'll have learned to enjoy different kinds of pieces, from a Bach fugue to a Chopin etude to an atonal Ligeti piece. All of these different forms have something for everyone, just a matter of practice and experience.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Chris, I would say that the biggest element necessary for _understanding_, _appreciating_, or even _liking _classical music is *desire*. That's it.

Other than that, there is no single path that guarantees you'll find your way into the music. It's really up to you. Some people will offer listening strategies, ways of bearing down, analysis, digging in. Others will say that you should let it wash over you, don't struggle against it, just let it happen. "Jump in the pool and swim," etc., etc.

My only bit of advice would be to follow your nose. There is no right or wrong here. If you find something you like, seek out more like it. If a strategy seems to work for you, keep doing it.

...And that bit about classical never being able to attain the perfection of popular or electronic forms: Try to let that go. I'm not going to try to convince you that one type of music is inherently better or worse than another. That's a HUGE topic, and I'm sure it would provide lots of fodder for debate. Instead, I would suggest that you should try to hear classical music (or _any_ music, for that matter) _for what it is_ -- rather than for what it is not. For example, you shouldn't judge Chekhov a poor writer because he wasn't a poet. You should evaluate him as a playwright. This is what he set out to do. Writing poetry and writing plays are different forms of writing with different aims and different goals; music is likewise, whether it's classical or pop or whatever.

I hope that helps.


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## Jerry (Oct 17, 2016)

An easy way in to classical music may be to watch the Disney film Fantasia 2000.

The Disney visuals will keep you entertained, and you will be listening to (admittedly sometimes truncated!) superb performances of Beethoven 5th symphony, Shostakovich 2nd piano concerto, Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, Stravinsky's Firebird Suite, Dukas' Sorcerer's Apprentice, Respighi's Pines of Rome and Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance.

That's a wide variety of classical styles which provides a very fine sampler of classical orchestral music.

The visuals are a distraction, but try to focus on the music as well.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2016)

JACE said:


> Chris, I would say that the biggest element necessary for _understanding_, _appreciating_, or even _liking _classical music is *desire*. That's it.
> 
> Other than that, there is no single path that guarantees you'll find your way into the music. It's really up to you. Some people will offer listening strategies, ways of bearing down, analysis, digging in. Others will say that you should let it wash over you, don't struggle against it, just let it happen. "Jump in the pool and swim," etc., etc.
> 
> ...


Well put Jace,that's how it started by me anyway.I as so eager as a 16 year old child to explore,to hear new things.I was so ignorant and thought that all music was more or less the same as in pop music.What a shock to discover that the seventh symphony was so different than the fifth.I knew nothing and the only thing I had was my curiosity and desire to continue my musical journey.I remember that when I was in the army I went in a recordshop to listen to the second orchestral suite of Bach.I was so happy to be for a moment of musical bliss.
There was nothing else than my hunger and that hunger comes from within.
I remember how my mother opened the door of my bedroom while I was listening to classical music and said that she did not understand how I could listen to it.So,we were both surprised.


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

helenora said:


> right, right and right. unfortunately people love their emotions produced by listening to music, any music, but not music itself. That's a pathetic truth. I know what I'm talking about because one of my friends almost identically speaks of CM as an OP.





LOLWUT said:


> I made my way backwards. Start with emotional romantic music. It was only after listening to a great deal of Mahler, Wagner and Tchaikovsky that I could truly appreciate the classicists, and Baroque came after that. The older the music, the dryer it is, and the more of an acquired taste it is. As you get older, you start to prefer the older pieces, but young people are always more drawn to the grand emotional statements of romantic music.
> 
> Something to understand about classical music is that you will never appreciate a piece the first time you listen to it, especially as a beginner. This is why you must focus on one piece, and replay it 7-8 times in the background over a few days or weeks while you do something else, like study or work. Then, all the lines will stick in your head and you will begin to recognize everything within the complexity of the music without effort. It's only after these many background replays that you can truly sit down, listen to a piece with all your attention (which you must listen with all your attention after a few background replays if you are really going to appreciate it), and love it.
> 
> ...





Nereffid said:


> I started out liking the sort of things you like, and it took me a while to get further, too. It was just a gradual process. You have to be patient, and try to maintain your enthusiasm.
> Seeing as you like pop and electronic music, you may very well like some of the modern classical that's played on the Internet radio station Q2 Music.





starthrower said:


> Pretty much. I can't relate to an 18 year old's world view or attention span, but there's no way around putting in the time to learn the repertoire. But it's easier these days. Just type in "best of classical music" at YouTube and you'll find three hour compilations of famous classical pieces. Or pick one composer and listen to a compilation. Mozart, Beethoven, Rossini, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, etc... You'll hear plenty of catchy melodies.





Art Rock said:


> On the other hand, chances are also that you will learn to love both classical and pop.





Chordalrock said:


> Been there, done that, more or less. Your brain isn't taking in all the audio information so it ends up being bored by what is objectively speaking a very rich stimulus. So here are some tips:
> 
> 1) Pay attention to everything, not just top voice but bass line too and harmony and counterpoint. You can do this to some extent by switching your focus quickly from melody to harmony and back, then keeping the harmony in your mind until it changes, then taking a peek at harmony again, and try similarly with counterpoint to hear the important bits and sort of keep it all in your mind.
> 
> ...


Thank you very very much to everyone for all of your replies. They have been extremely helpful! Out of interest, for those who have replied, do you "look down on" pop music for being over-commercialised/aiming to please the masses or do you see it as another art form?
PS - I am currently listening to Shostakovich's Piano Concerto 2 in F major and really quite enjoying it!


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> Thank you very very much to everyone for all of your replies. They have been extremely helpful! Out of interest, for those who have replied, do you "look down on" pop music for being over-commercialised/aiming to please the masses or do you see it as another art form?
> PS - I am currently listening to Shostakovich's Piano Concerto 2 in F major and really quite enjoying it!


Some pop music is good, but in classical there are certain pieces that put you in a trance, as if you were intoxicated. Emotions are taken to an extreme, where you feel as if the world were ending and the walls were crumbling down on you as you listen. The word is transcendental. I find that it is difficult for pop music to reach this level of emotion. In fact, most of classical doesn't, only a few select works.


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## Der Titan (Oct 17, 2016)

My suggestion is: Try this, try that. Just give certain music a try, may it be Mozart, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, Brahms, Tschaikovski, Vivaldi, Malcolm Arnold, Prokoview and hundred names more, whatever. Just try something. You have gotten some advice and I could give you more advice but you will not find your way to classical music through advice. The most important point, you need one piece of classical music, one special piece of music where you get hooked. What piece of music this is I can't say. Could be Beethovens 5th, or Edward Grieg, Bach Brandenburg concertoes, could be anything. To find such a piece of music, you must give some pieces of music a try. But I hope so, that if you give some pieces of music really a try, you will find this certain piece of music, where you get hooked. 

And that's the first step and that's the starting point. But say, it would be Tschaikovskis 1. piano concerto ( can be any other piece of music). It would be very natural that you want to explore more of this composer. For example the symphonies or the violin concerto. So then you can widen your ken. Than you may be interested in something somehow similar, Borodin for example. Or you discover maybe chamber music of Tschaikovski. I don't know, I don't know your starting point and how you go further from you starting point. And your starting point can be anything, Vivaldi, Richard Strauss, Mozart, whatever. 

So that's the only advice I can give you, to give classical music always a try, find the music where you get hooked, which you really like, and then take this as a starting point for more. And don't be intimidated by great names. Enjoy classical music as relaxed as you can.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

ChrisGraham said:


> Thank you very very much to everyone for all of your replies. They have been extremely helpful! Out of interest, for those who have replied, do you "look down on" pop music for being over-commercialised/aiming to please the masses or do you see it as another art form?
> PS - I am currently listening to Shostakovich's Piano Concerto 2 in F major and really quite enjoying it!


I do see pop as another art form, but I still can't help look down on it.

Any music, that only utilizes so little of the compositional palette available (4/4 time, same 3 or 4 chords, standard verse > chorus > verse structure), does not rate very highly to me.

You get bored listening to long form compositions, where the melodies may not be as obvious as pop. I get bored with the same basic song structure repeated in almost every pop song. The fact that pop can be "perfected" in the studio with the use of technology, as opposed to actual musicianship, does not impress me at all.

I like other forms of music equally to classical (prog-rock and some forms of jazz), for the same reasons I like classical; complexity, musicianship, emotion, etc. Which seem to be the opposite as pop.

Most other people here will tend to recommend many of the standard "warhorse" of classical music. I listen to mostly 20th century and contemporary classical.

Here's a few more modern pieces to try, but nothing too "difficult":

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring






Bartok - Concerto for strings, percussion and celesta






Penderecki - Violin Concerto 2


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> I do see pop as another art form, but I still can't help look down on it.
> Penderecki - Violin Concerto 2


This is the point I was making earlier. You can't recommend Penderecki to a beginner. That is highly dissonant music and even people who have been listening to classical for years sometimes don't get into it.

For a beginner, one should recommend the masterworks, the ones everyone here is tired of hearing about. These are the pieces most likely to attract the attention of a beginner.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

The only thing i dont recommend starting with is classical period (mozart, haydn, et al.)

Baroque should be interesting because you've probably never heard polyphonic music like this before so if you pay attention to how all the different melody lines are interacting you might find it at least intriguing and appreciate the skill required to write it (brandenburg concertos by Bach would be the top pick for starting out with baroque)

It's of course also cool to see what came before those guys and listen to some beautiful medieval and renaissance music but you might find that stuff boring. 

Most recommend imo would be Beethoven's 9th symphony and Dvorak 9th symphony. Show the grandness of this art but also with very memorable melodic lines.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

jailhouse said:


> The only thing i dont recommend starting with is classical period (mozart, haydn, et al.)
> 
> Baroque should be interesting because you've probably never heard polyphonic music like this before so if you pay attention to how all the different melody lines are interacting you might find it at least intriguing and appreciate the skill required to write it (brandenburg concertos by Bach would be the top pick for starting out with baroque)
> 
> ...


Start with romantic. Baroque can be boring to a beginner for the same reason as classical.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> This is the point I was making earlier. You can't recommend Penderecki to a beginner. That is highly dissonant music and even people who have been listening to classical for years sometimes don't get into it.
> 
> For a beginner, one should recommend the masterworks, the ones everyone here is tired of hearing about. These are the pieces most likely to attract the attention of a beginner.


It's a valid recommendation. Some people can't get into classical music because they're bored by those "masterworks everyone is tired of hearing about". Something more modern with oompf might be just the thing.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Chronochromie said:


> It's a valid recommendation. Some people can't get into classical music because they're bored by those "masterworks everyone is tired of hearing about". Something more modern with oompf might be just the thing.


The problem the OP is outlining isn't being "bored with the masterworks". I doubt he has even heard more than 5% of them. That's where he needs to start.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

ChrisGraham said:


> Out of interest, for those who have replied, do you "look down on" pop music for being over-commercialised/aiming to please the masses or do you see it as another art form?


I don't look down on pop music. The challenge of pop music is that it must be immediately appealing, and it's very, very difficult to do that without resorting to methods that are used over-and-over again. That's precisely what made groups like the Beatles or Bob Dylan so amazing & influential; they forged their own unique paths and radically expanded the vocabulary of pop music. And it was STILL hugely appealing to mass audiences. That's quite a feat.

But I will say this about musics that don't necessarily have to cater to such a large audience -- and I'm not only thinking of classical but also jazz and other forms of "art music" (for lack of a better term) -- the vocabulary of these sorts of music is larger because these types of art aren't working under the constraint of being immediately appealing. Part of the appeal of these types of music is that you've got to work your way into them. There can be a process of discovery for each new work, each new composer, each new instrumentalist. And that discovery process can be DELICIOUSLY INTOXICATING. That's the high that keeps bringing me back to musical forms like classical and jazz most frequently.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Chronochromie said:


> It's a valid recommendation. Some people can't get into classical music because they're bored by those "masterworks everyone is tired of hearing about". Something more modern with oompf might be just the thing.





LOLWUT said:


> The problem the OP is outlining isn't being "bored with the masterworks". I doubt he has even heard more than 5% of them. That's where he needs to start.


From my point of view, there is no "needs to start here." It doesn't exist. Or it shouldn't exist. The listener's interest should drive the process of discovery. Not history. Or "great composers." Or great works. Or any of that. It always best when the process is _personal_.

Speaking for myself, my entry point into classical music was *Charles Ives*. And Ives only made sense to me after I'd spent a long time listening to Charles Mingus. So you could say that my entry point into classical music was predicated on an understanding of jazz legend Charles Mingus! Incidentally, I knew much, much more about Ives' music before I ever began listening to Beethoven (!). Then I discovered that Ives was quoting Beethoven in many of his works. And that discovery prompted me to explore Beethoven.

Thus began my journey into "classical music." So it's not a monopoly board we're talking about. IMHO, there is no predefined path. Such a thing might be helpful for some, but there's nothing _necessary_ about it. If you begin with Medieval polyphony, fine. If you begin with Varese, fine. If you begin with Miles Davis or Coltrane, fine. It doesn't matter. Just find a doorway in. Then you can start opening lots and lots of other doors.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> The problem the OP is outlining isn't being "bored with the masterworks". I doubt he has even heard more than 5% of them. That's where he needs to start.


I was addressing your "for a beginner" bit.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

There are many paths, but let's have some common sense here. A beginner will have an easier time getting into Tchaikovsky than Stockhausen. If I want to share classical music with a friend, I will show him a great romantic work, not some guy rustling a plastic bag and calling it music.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

No one mentioned Stockhausen until just now, but if you want to derail the thread then so be it.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Chronochromie said:


> No one mentioned Stockhausen until just now, but if you want to derail the thread then so be it.


Not trying to be hostile, but surely you can see the folly of recommending Penderecki to a guy who very well may give up if he is not considerably drawn in by the first few works he listens to.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> There are many paths, but let's have some common sense here. A beginner will have an easier time getting into Tchaikovsky than Stockhausen. If I want to share classical music with a friend, I will show him a great romantic work, not some guy rustling a plastic bag and calling it music.


I think you're oversimplifying.

If someone has a background in electronic and/or dance music -- music that's driven by hypnotic beats, do you think they're going to have an easier time making their way into *Tchaikovsky* than they will with someone like, say, *Steve Reich*?!?!?

I'm dubious.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

I correct my statement OP. Forget Beethoven, Brahms and Wagner. 

Go full in with Steve Reich OP.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> Not trying to be hostile, but surely you can see the folly of recommending Penderecki to a guy who very well may give up if he is not considerably drawn in by the first few works he listens to.


I don't actually see the "folly". You'd have more luck giving a few works from different eras than just giving Romantic era stuff and assuming that'll work. They'd also get to see the scope and variety of "classical music", so I don't see the issue.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

See what is included on the sampler discs, and find out which famous snippets appeal to you. Then, listen to the full works that those excerpts are from. You'll get a quick education on which of the standard repertoire you like best.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

LOLWUT said:


> This is the point I was making earlier. You can't recommend Penderecki to a beginner. That is highly dissonant music and even people who have been listening to classical for years sometimes don't get into it.
> 
> For a beginner, one should recommend the masterworks, the ones everyone here is tired of hearing about. These are the pieces most likely to attract the attention of a beginner.





LOLWUT said:


> Start with romantic. Baroque can be boring to a beginner for the same reason as classical.


I am going to disagree with you. My experience comes from watching, and I hope, not doing too much to put off, my own children - in their late teens / early 20s - find their way into classical music.

One came from avant-garde rock and jazz to Webern, Ligeti and Kurtag, La Monte Young, Reich, Glass, Riley, Meredith Monk, Webern, Stravinsky and, Gorecki and, um, Penderecki and Lutoslawski towards the mainstream 20th century repertoire, eventually parts of the 19th century and the music of the Renaissance.

The other, being more socially oriented and a fan of musical theatre, followed friends from her choir into live performances of baroque choral music (and then into choral music more widely). So I would base any advice for a newcomer on what they already like to listen to, rather than giving generic recommendations (especially for the big romantic works of the 19th century - I've never much cared for many of those myself.)


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

LOLWUT said:


> This is the point I was making earlier. You can't recommend Penderecki to a beginner. That is highly dissonant music and even people who have been listening to classical for years sometimes don't get into it.
> 
> For a beginner, one should recommend the masterworks, the ones everyone here is tired of hearing about. These are the pieces most likely to attract the attention of a beginner.


It's not like he's going to be scared away by it, since he is already familiar with less difficult works.

But I was once a beginner, and it is pieces exactly like those from Penderecki, and other contemporary composers, that got me into classical. It was my previous exposure of the masterworks that kept me from becoming a classical fan.

I did not need 'training wheels'.

But then, I an deeply into avant garde prog-rock, so I already had some exposure to dissonance.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

TurnaboutVox said:


> ....
> 
> The other, being more socially oriented and a fan of musical theatre, followed friends from her choir into live performances of baroque choral music (and then into choral music more widely). So I would base any advice for a newcomer on what they already like to listen to, rather than giving generic recommendations (especially for the big romantic works of the 19th century - I've never much cared for many of those myself.)


Lots of excellent insights and recommendations from the previous posters. But, I guess, from the classical music you've said you *do* like, that you are studying the piano. But, have you also joined one of the choirs or small instrumental groups at your school/college? A way for some of us into the huge and various world of "classical" music has been by *doing* it.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

LOLWUT said:


> I made my way backwards. Start with emotional romantic music. It was only after listening to a great deal of Mahler, Wagner and Tchaikovsky that I could truly appreciate the classicists, and Baroque came after that. The older the music, the dryer it is, and the more of an acquired taste it is. As you get older, you start to prefer the older pieces, but young people are always more drawn to the grand emotional statements of romantic music.


If I had taken your advice, I would have given up on classical music decades ago. I have no idea why you think that young people are drawn to romantic music. My opinion is that every person is unique; each individual needs to find his/her own sweet spots and move on from there.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

Not to sound harsh, but if the OP is having trouble developing an in-depth appreciation of classical music, then why did he choose to pursue a music degree? Studying music in academia requires an appreciation for all forms of music, but _especially_ classical. There is nothing wrong with preferring pop and electronica, but university degree programs focus intensely on classical music. If your goal is to work in the world of pop and electronic music, that is a perfectly noble goal, but going the academic route is going to involve listening to and performing a lot of classical music. If you're bored with it then making it through your degree program might be a bit rough depending on your major.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Yeah everyones path to get into this stuff is different. Since I came in as a prog-rock, jazz fusion, extreme metal obsessive, (the more avant-garde the better) I started getting really hooked when i heard Messiaen and Ligeti. It depends where you're coming from. As a pop music person you gotta start with the 19th century classics.


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## accumusicschool (Jul 18, 2016)

1) Listen to a wide variety of classical music on a regular basis.
2) You can watch videos on you tube.
3) Look for a listening guide that can help on music.
4) Listen to radio.
5) Follow your enthusiasm.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

You like electronics, try this...



I take it you are a modern classical lover...


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Try this, it will really get your enthusiasm for classical going:


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Get hold of a guide book, like "The Rough Guide to Classical Music" and check out your favourite pieces in there, and see what similar pieces are recommended. For instance, what about another thirteen overtures by Rossinni? Or Satie's other piano works? Or more Debussy? You'll quickly find out that Ravel is recommended along with Debussy. Why not try him? I bought a CD of Griffes' orchestral works because I read he was inspired by Ravel and Debussy - and yes he did sound like them, so I could (and did) easily appreciate him. So that's one good way - start with what you like, and go for something similar. But also listen to a classical radio station, now and then, to find works you might not have considered (but be prepared to be bored, I'm often bored listening to BBC Radio 3, but they also turn up some gems...)


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

jailhouse said:


> Yeah everyones path to get into this stuff is different. Since I came in as a prog-rock, jazz fusion, extreme metal obsessive, (the more avant-garde the better) I started getting really hooked when i heard Messiaen and Ligeti. It depends where you're coming from. As a pop music person you gotta start with the 19th century classics.


Your account parallels mine very closely.

That was my pre-classical background, also.

I still love those other genres.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

LOLWUT said:


> Try this, it will really get your enthusiasm for classical going:


You can't go wrong with this amount of memorable 'catchy' thematic material!


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Razumovskymas said:


> You can't go wrong with this amount of memorable 'catchy' thematic material!


I'm pretty sure the dudes in this thread are trolling OP.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> I'm pretty sure the dudes in this thread are trolling OP.


Yes, that's exactly what's happening.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

It might help to know what pop and electronic music you like, since that's where you already have the most developed taste.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

As a kid, I lost 22 lbs. It helped me easily get into classical music. It was a tight squeeze for a while, I must admit.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

LOLWUT said:


> I'm pretty sure the dudes in this thread are trolling OP.


I can assure you as a forum moderator that I am not trolling. I am, and I'm sure others are, perfectly sincere.

What would be wrong with the Sciarrino sonata as an introduction to CM if the new listener has been into, say, Cabaret Voltaire or My Bloody Valentine beforehand?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

LOLWUT said:


> This is the point I was making earlier. You can't recommend Penderecki to a beginner. That is highly dissonant music and even people who have been listening to classical for years sometimes don't get into it.


I have to disagree. Penderecki have written several highly accessible works and his second violin concerto is one of them. Because of that he also is one of the most popular living composers. I would describe his second violin concerto as up stirring music that is fun to listen to.


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

LOLWUT said:


> Try this, it will really get your enthusiasm for classical going:


WTF???!?!??????


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Literally you're gonna look down on me guys but I LOVE music like this by Madeon:






Or more pop type ones like this:






I'm currently studying the third movement from Berlioz' symphonie fantastique, and to be quite honest, it literally sounds like something i would do when I just put a load of random notes into Sibelius to test if my sound is working!! (Obviously I appreciate that it's very complex, but I just don't get it).

Thank you all for your replies. I just can't get away from the idea that if music isn't memorable, then it's not enjoyable. I will hopefully be focusing on film music at uni (I'm taking music because I want to focus on orchestration), but I do want to appreciate music by the greats.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

ChrisGraham said:


> Literally you're gonna look down on me guys but I LOVE music like this by Madeon:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A shame. You can't possibly be a successful film composer if you don't steal bits from the greats here and there. Justkiddingpleasedontkillmeohmygod


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> There are some pieces of classical music that adore, but mostly that's because they have very memorable 'catchy' melodies, and thus have made their way into popular culture through advertising etc. ... Memorability is a big thing for me... love I have for these pieces is nowhere near the adoration I feel for pop or electronic music... I will be studying a lot of classical music for my A levels)


May I ask why you are studying music? What do you want to do with a music degree?

If you see yourself making pop music in the future, you really don't need to study classical music for that. Studying for a music degree with be extremely difficult if you don't appreciate classical music.

I have been enjoying electronic music for longer than you are alive, but that is not a musical style. "Electronic" is the instrument.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by MEMORABLE. Surely, you remember & can sing any piece of music that you like and listen to often enough. My son was singing Bach's violin concertos to himself while he was about 3 years old. Not because he is a genius but because he heard them many times and clearly enjoyed them.

Unless you mean SIMPLE in which case, again, I question why you want to study classical music if you only like simple tunes.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

LesCyclopes said:


> Unless you mean SIMPLE in which case, again, I question why you want to study classical music if you only like simple tunes.


It is said that cooks don´t cook at home so maybe it is something similar. 
But studying something you don´t like sounds dreadful.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

TurnaboutVox said:


> I can assure you as a forum moderator that I am not trolling. I am, and I'm sure others are, perfectly sincere.
> 
> What would be wrong with the Sciarrino sonata as an introduction to CM if the new listener has been into, say, Cabaret Voltaire or My Bloody Valentine beforehand?


OP responded to the Sciarrino sonata with "WTF". Nobody could have predicted that one eh, geniuses?


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

I definitely don't agree that trying to think yourself into the mood of a piece by visualizing stories and images is a good idea. I gave that method an intense try for a year with pieces from all eras and it never helped even a little bit; if anything it made me dislike those pieces even more. Paying closer attention to details and counterpoint didn't matter either.

For example, it's true that I didn't fall in love with the Art of Fugue until I, through brute force repetition, learned to perceive some of the counterpoint, but I was attracted to the mood of the piece within the first few seconds of the first time I heard it and this natural affinity got me through the initial stages of confusion and boredom.

Once I'd learned some of the structure my brain started to weave stories and images through it, as seems to be its natural tendency with attractive music, but the real genesis of that process was my initial liking of the overall soundscape. I memorized other of Bach's fugues just as tenaciously and even forced myself to put moods and stories on them and nothing ever clicked. And I tried this, again, for an embarrassingly long time to no avail.

Consider also, OP, how much of the music in your favored genres that you _don't_ like. You like Electronic music; so do I, to the point that I sampled albums and albums of it last week and came out with 4 or 5 songs I really liked. You have to give CM a fair chance by listening to a lot of it.

This all to say that I think you should just get on Spotify or Youtube and listen to as many different things as you can; make a playlist of things that seem to grab you a little bit and give those extra attention but never stop exploring new things.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Also, I don't know what your audio setup is but I use headphones and I'm constantly at war with the sound mixing/quality of CM recordings. Compared to the electronic music you like CM probably sounds "airy" and insubstantial in a sound texture sense. Increase the bass and treble to help remedy this, maybe a small echo effect too. My enjoyment of baroque music especially is more dependent on sound quality than is often convenient.


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## Friendlyneighbourhood (Oct 8, 2016)

LOLWUT said:


> Try this, it will really get your enthusiasm for classical going:


I actually enjoyed that  thank you Mahlerite!


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Friendlyneighbourhood said:


> I actually enjoyed that  thank you Mahlerite!


You can't honestly like that?!


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Chronochromie said:


> A shame. You can't possibly be a successful film composer if you don't steal bits from the greats here and there. Justkiddingpleasedontkillmeohmygod


I understand, I absolutely adore some film music, such as that of Korngold, John Williams or James Newton Howard


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

I will be studying music at university for a few reasons:
- It's good to have a degree
- I want to learn how to improve my compositional skills, as well as how the orchestra works 
- I want to improve my playing (grade 8 piano, grade 7 saxophone)
- I ENJOY music! I do find it difficult to appreciate a large amount of classical music, as my ear is much more used to the typical "trashy" pop, but I really want to change this. I'm asking you guys if you think it's possible


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Steve Reich? 



 Problem is, this is an hour long.

Actually, maybe Mozart? This has a memorable hook:


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> You can't honestly like that?!


There is so much wonderful music out there, works that you would marvel at, and these geniuses are pointing you to the absolute ugliest pieces in the repertoire.

It's your call OP, listen to the great works of Beethoven, Wagner or Mahler, or listen to some dude bashing his head on a piano and calling it music. These trolls would listen to that over rosé wine and go on about the "greatness of avant-garde".


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

isorhythm said:


> Steve Reich?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the link to Mozart! I absolutely adore his Overture to The Marriage of Figaro - I don't know if it's just my untrained ears, but it sounds slightly non-classical to me, and more romantic even (early romantic).


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

LOLWUT said:


> There is so much wonderful music out there, works that you would marvel at, and these geniuses are pointing you to the absolute ugliest pieces in the repertoire.
> 
> It's your call OP, listen to the great works of Beethoven, Wagner or Mahler, or listen to some dude bashing his head on a piano and calling it music. These trolls would listen to that over rosé wine and go on about the "greatness of avant-garde".


 Haha that made me laugh. Thanks for your reply man


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> I definitely don't agree that trying to think yourself into the mood of a piece by visualizing stories and images is a good idea. I gave that method an intense try for a year with pieces from all eras and it never helped even a little bit; if anything it made me dislike those pieces even more.


I've had the opposite experience. I'd also recommend finding some appropriate pictures if you don't want to put in the effort to visualise on your own.



Clairvoyance Enough said:


> Paying closer attention to details and counterpoint didn't matter either.


How is that even possible? How do you hear the mood of something if you don't hear that something? There are still pieces, say Gombert motets, that require close attention from me so I notice some beautiful melodies - often in the bass - that would otherwise drown under the more workmanlike voices.


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## FDR (Oct 19, 2016)

I kind of always figured that Beethoven's symphonies were a nice and easy entrance into the world of classical music. Especially the Pastoral 6th Symphony. Then again I might just be speaking from my own experience since it was pretty much one of the few "longer" classical compositions that I could listen to as a teenager. This is coming from a person who used to mostly listen to film soundtracks, rock music and folk music as a teenager. In my early 20s I enjoyed RnB, Hip Hop and club music and even now and then I can enjoy listening to electronic music like the songs that you posted earlier in this this thread, ChrisGraham. 

I'd say give it a shot with Beethoven (Try the 6th symphony and/or 5th and 7th). You call also try out Edvard Grieg and his Peer Gynt Suite and other more popular works like Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker, Strauss family (Vienna New Years Concert music). 

If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. No need to pressure yourself to like anything. You might change your mind later on, you might not. Try it out and see if anything in special triggers your interest.


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

ChrisGraham said:


> I really want to get into classical music, because I know the strong emotions that it can provoke (and plus I will be studying a lot of classical music for my A levels). However, 99% of classical pieces I listen to make me feel instantly bored, as they don't have anything memorable about them. (Perhaps this is because the melody isn't as immediate?)
> 
> Does anyone know what I can do?


I assume you have tried all the usual standard works that most people get started with: pieces like Bolero, Finlandia, Rosamunde, Moonlight Sonata, 1812 etc.

Most people who eventually go on to acquire a big interest in classical music usually find something of interest among these "classics" in their early days. They usually come to places like this to obtain advice on ways to cultivate that interest further. But from what you say, you aren't even at base level 1. If you have tried and get "bored instantly" listening to most of the classical music you have tried, the chances of progression don't appear all that good.

Despite what others have said, in my opinion there's no way of somehow becoming more enthusiastic about classical music just by asking people here how to do it. There has to be at least a park of enthusiasm, which from your posts appears lacking. If after a few more attempts at listening to some of this material the situation doesn't improve I think you might be better off thinking about pursuing another type of degree.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

LOLWUT said:


> Don't listen to these trolls OP. They are bunch of snobs who take a kind of elitist pride in being able to "appreciate" works that most non-deaf people would revolt at. There is so much wonderful music out there, works that you would marvel at, and these geniuses are pointing you to the absolute ugliest pieces in the repertoire.
> 
> It's your call OP, listen to the great works of Beethoven, Wagner or Mahler, or listen to some dude bashing his head on a piano and calling it music. These trolls would listen to that over rosé wine and go on about the "greatness of avant-garde".


You should ignore this, OP. Everything that's been suggested in this thread, except for the one sarcastic suggestion, is good and worth checking out.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

ChrisGraham said:


> Literally you're gonna look down on me guys but I LOVE music like this by Madeon:
> 
> ...


If you're having such trouble with "the greats", then how about this?






or this?






or this?


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

That Sciarrino piano "sonata"!  I managed 10 seconds of it, then skipped some minutes and tried another few seconds to see if it got any less torturous, and gave up. 

My hat off to those of you who can find beauty in that piece, but I have to question the wisdom of suggesting it to the OP whose taste in music seems limited to catchy tunes.


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi guys.

I appreciate all of your responses! Don't know if anyone will be interested, but here are the classical pieces I really love (and would go out of my way to listen to):

- Rossini Overture to La Gazza Ladra
- Satie Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes (particularly number 5)
- Mozart Overture to Marriage of Figaro 
- Debussy Girl With the Flaxen Hair, Claire de Lune 
- Beethoven Moonlight sonata and Sonata Pathetique 
- Various pieces by Ludovico Einaudi (don't kill me pls)
- Chopin Heroic Polonaise (I am currently practising this on the piano)
- Various items of film music 
- Offenbach Can Can
- Saint Saens Carnival of Animals (various) 
- Tchaikovsky Swan Lake (various)
- Schubert Octet for Clarinet, Horn, Bassoon and Strings in F Major

I should also note that my tastes don't just lie with electronic and pop (although this makes up a large amount of my favourite pieces), but includes artist I love such as Kate Bush or random bits of jazz, etc


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> - Rossini Overture to La Gazza Ladra
> - Satie Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes (particularly number 5)
> - Mozart Overture to Marriage of Figaro
> - Debussy Girl With the Flaxen Hair, Claire de Lune
> ...


Just as I predicted, almost all romantic pieces. Can you geniuses please stop recommending 20th Century experimental crap? Most people outside the confines of this elitist forum are revolted by it.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

ChrisGraham said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I appreciate all of your responses! Don't know if anyone will be interested, but here are the classical pieces I really love (and would go out of my way to listen to):


Given this list of works you like, I would suggest doubling down on those works. Listen to other Beethoven piano sonatas such as the Appassionata. Listen to more Chopin's piano works (nocturnes, ballades, etudes). Listen to Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. Listen to more Mozart (Overture to The Magic Flute). Or just listen to more Beethoven, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, and others.

We have an extensive list of works organized by genre (symphony, piano concertos, piano solo, string quartet, etc.). Members have voted on those lists to suggest what they believe are the best works in those genres. You might want to give those lists a look.


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

mmsbls said:


> Given this list of works you like, I would suggest doubling down on those works. Listen to other Beethoven piano sonatas such as the Appassionata. Listen to more Chopin's piano works (nocturnes, ballades, etudes). Listen to Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. Listen to more Mozart (Overture to The Magic Flute). Or just listen to more Beethoven, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, and others.
> 
> We have an extensive list of works organized by genre (symphony, piano concertos, piano solo, string quartet, etc.). Members have voted on those lists to suggest what they believe are the best works in those genres. You might want to give those lists a look.


Thanks for the advice! Never heard Appassionata, I will give that a go now


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## Friendlyneighbourhood (Oct 8, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> You can't honestly like that?!


It was a fun little sonata, I've never heard something quite like it


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

ChrisGraham said:


> Thanks for the advice! Never heard Appassionata, I will give that a go now


Probably best to start with the third movement. Isn't that the popular choice from that sonata? I'd also recommend the third movement of Beethoven's "Tempest" piano sonata, though you may have heard that one.

As for people recommending atonal or avant-garde pieces - that kind of music is sometimes used in movies to great effect, so it shouldn't be too far out for someone who is open minded about music. Of course, if you don't already have good memories about such pieces, you might have to listen to such music for a few months every now and then before it stops sounding ugly and starts sounding neutral/good.


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## ChrisGraham (Apr 10, 2016)

Friendlyneighbourhood said:


> It was a fun little sonata, I've never heard something quite like it


Haha that's so strange. I'm not judging you for liking the music you like or anything, but I just can't get my head around ever liking something like that!!! The guy's literally just banging the piano - a two year old could do that, then would it still be music?


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

LOLWUT said:


> OP responded to the Sciarrino sonata with "WTF". Nobody could have predicted that one eh, geniuses?


I presume that by quoting my earlier post, you count me one of your "geniuses". I think then that I'm entitled to a reply!

I wasn't claiming that the OP would enjoy the Sciarrino sonata, only that depending on their starting point, someone who was new to classical music might do so.

À chacun son goût...


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## Friendlyneighbourhood (Oct 8, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> Haha that's so strange. I'm not judging you for liking the music you like or anything, but I just can't get my head around ever liking something like that!!! The guy's literally just banging the piano - a two year old could do that, then would it still be music?


Yes, maybe not well constructed or very intellectualized music, but music nonetheless :tiphat:

Listen to other of Sciarrino's works maybe before that sonata? He's not a bad composer by any stretch of the imagination


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Chordalrock said:


> I've had the opposite experience. I'd also recommend finding some appropriate pictures if you don't want to put in the effort to visualise on your own.
> 
> How is that even possible? How do you hear the mood of something if you don't hear that something? There are still pieces, say Gombert motets, that require close attention from me so I notice some beautiful melodies - often in the bass - that would otherwise drown under the more workmanlike voices.


I actually did try looking at paintings as I listened to things; I would put on the devil segment from Fantasia as I listened to anything spooky. I came up with these abstract, intricate storybeats to synchronize with pieces. I tried all sorts of self-hypnosis methods with many pieces that would not click and it never progressed my understanding.

I'm convinced that in the few cases it seemed to work my brain was already predisposed to the overall soundscape of the piece anyway, and would have come to love the details of those pieces naturally. I don't know how else to explain why tedious repetition of the aformentioned techniques worked for some fugues in the WTC and not for others, even when the dud was in the same key as the success.

Obviously it's important to listen for details if you want to get everything out of something you already like; I'm saying that discovering new details in something I didn't like after 100 (literally) listens didn't tend, actually never, changed anything. If it worked for you that's great. I wish I was you.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Some baroque recommendations; I didn't like the romantic era very much at all in the beginning.

Handel overtures
Theodora https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdKI...ABiG1sK0in1p9A
Rodelinda 



Jephtha 




Telemann string sextet in G minor 



And just the minor key sextets in general.

Zelenka Trio Sonata in C minor, especially the first allegro





The gigue from Bach's 2nd cello suite.




The first chorus from Bach's 26th cantata




This aria from Bach's Christmas oratorio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT...uJk60YJ7nR6SAg

Geminiani concerto grosso 3


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I think chances are by now Mr. ChrisGraham has even less of a clue where to start then before he posted his question. Proving that there are countless ways to approach / listen to/ get passionate about / discuss /enjoy / not enjoy/ contemplate / make fun of / rant about / analyse / love classical music.

What makes classical music even more interesting te get into. 

But you really should like Beethoven though!! :devil:


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

I just skimmed through this thread, and it reminded me of some of my early explorations. It is difficult to recommend a specific approach since everybody's taste is different. When I was a teenager, I loved Bach, Mussorgsky, and 1950s/1960s rock music. That is a bizarre combination, but variety is the spice of life. You could spend some time simply trying things at random, and eventually something will appeal to you. I have done a lot of this over the years, and it has paid off. This method has led me to all kinds of classical music, popular music, jazz, and world music, and I love all of it.

Exploring all over the place can seem like a bit much, however, so I have a couple recommendations based on previous posts in this thread. You mentioned Debussy and Satie. The music of these composers is often quite accessible and can be a good introduction to a particular variety of classical music. Somebody in this thread mentioned Maurice Ravel. If you like Debussy and Satie, you should check out Ravel. His "Bolero" is quite popular; it consists of numerous repetitions of a simple tune, but with endless variety in orchestration. Every time I hear it, I am amazed at how well he made this concept work. Beyond this piece, his music is quite reminiscent of Debussy. A couple of my favorites are "Alborada del gracioso" and "La valse" but I wouldn't stop there - I haven't been disappointed with any of his compositions. For that matter, I would recommend digging deeper into the compositions of Satie and Debussy. I have enjoyed everything I have heard from these composers.

If Debussy, Satie, and Ravel appeal to you, you might consider moving forward in time to see what the next generation of French composers have to offer. Look up "Les Six" in a search engine and start exploring. For composers of the 20th century, Francis Poulenc, Darius Milhaud, and Arthur Honegger (the best known of this group) can be surprisingly accessible. (Poulenc's Gloria is a piece I often recommend to beginners who are interested in choral music.) Listen to a few things on YouTube, and click on the links, and see where it leads. You might be surprised. You might start with classical music, then listen to some jazz, and finally end up in world music. Just go with whatever you find interesting, and you can't go wrong.

You are fortunate to have the option to research this subject on the web. Back when I got started, the only option was to go to a store and buy records, and the selection was rather limited. Perhaps the problem now is that there is too much, and it is hard to know where to start. Still, that isn't necessarily a problem. You can try whatever looks interesting. If you like it, you like it, and if you don't, you can move on to something else. Years ago, I used to listen to a radio program on public radio in the United States entitled "Schickele Mix." I don't know if recordings of this program are available on the web these days, but if they are, I recommend checking it out. At the end of each program, Peter Schickele used to say, "If it sounds good, it is good." I have always agreed with that sentiment, and if you approach music with that attitude, you can't help but have a positive experience.


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

It can be quite an intimidating experience, trying to initially access classical music, not suprising really when one considers that one is considering different styles that have developed over hundreds of years. Just think how pop music has changed over much shorter periods.

Whilst some fans of classical music consider it heresy to listen to portions of larger pieces, as opposed to listening to the entire piece (e.g. symphony, concerto, etc.), I would recommend the former initially. The latter can be truly overwhelming and undoubtedly off-putting for the beginner, particularly when listening to the likes of Mahler, Shostakovich or Bruckner, for example.

Some suggestions for pieces that you might initially enjoy and which are, I believe, more accessible are:

Beethoven's 7th Symphony (particularly the second, used in the film 'The King's Speech' and fourth movements) 
Beethoven's 6th Symphony
Beethoven's 9th Symphony (maybe without the final movement)
Smetana's 'Má vlast' 
Rimsky-Korsakov's 'Scheherazade'
Elgar's 'The Enigma Variations'
Dvořák's 'New World/9th Symphony'
Grieg's 'Peer Gynt Suite'
Schubert's Fifth Symphony
Brahms's Fourth Symphony (1st movement, in particular)
Sibelius's Violin Concerto (1st movement, in particular)
Ravel's 'Ma Mere l'Oye/Mother Goose Suite', 'Le Tombeau de Couperin' and 'Pavane pour une infante defunte'
Vaughan Williams's ' The Lark Ascending' and 'Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis'
Mendelssohn's Fourth 'Italian' Symphony 
Mahler's Fifth Symphony (the fourth movement only, the Adagietto)
Erik Satie's 'Gymnopedies' 1-3
Shostakovich's Piano Concerto Number 2 (Second movement)

Richard Strauss's 'An Alpine Symphony' is glorious but for a newcomer can initially seem complicated and inaccessible. Make the effort to listen to it a few times and it comes together much more. You could start by listening to the first three movements only, which provide a more accessible introduction.

Another outlier, which is only available as a download from the likes of Amazon, Google and iTunes is Joseph Marx's 'Eine Herbstsymphonie/Autumn Symphony'. I think that this is very accessible and may well be compatible with your existing tastes.

Hope that you find some of the above to your liking.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> Obviously it's important to listen for details if you want to get everything out of something you already like; I'm saying that discovering new details in something I didn't like after 100 (literally) listens didn't tend, actually never, changed anything. If it worked for you that's great. I wish I was you.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. You either manage to pay attention to important stuff like harmonic progression and most of what is going on in general, or you don't know what is going on and the piece remains a barely glimpsed mystery to you whether you realise that or not. Paying attention properly can and should occur on a first listen. There's no need to listen to a specific piece more than a couple of times, indeed no use in doing so.

The real progress in ability to perceive occurs over several months and years of listening to music in general, using the methods that I outlined in my first message. Perception can improve in at least two ways: (1) being able to process more musical information at once, and (2) hearing tones and intervals more keenly. I have a lot of experience of listening to something when I wasn't yet a good listener of that kind of music, then coming back to it years later and finally "getting" it on a first listen. There are innumerable pieces that have started making sense or have mysteriously started sounding better and have become aesthetic experiences due to the intervening years of practice, from Bach fugues to Hammerklavier slow movement to Bartok string quartets. I distinctly remember not being able to follow fugues and then years later being able to do just that. It's a huge difference in ability to perceive, and you'll remember it for the rest of your life if you have experienced something like that. That would relate to (1) above. In the case of Bartok, I suspect (2) was more important, as it seems I was no longer hearing the music as ugly but hearing it in a new manner.

None of that is just about "hearing details". For example, a basic thing like paying attention to the harmony or the bass can make a passage sound entirely different. People, when they come to classical from pop, don't usually think to pay attention to the harmony or bass. I have a friend who once listened to me playing a passage from a piano sonata by Mozart, and he said he heard it as a rather joyful passage. I suggested that he should try paying attention to the harmony. After listening to it again while paying attention to the harmony, he realised it was a rather mournful passage, not a joyful one at all. The passage in question was part of the recap from the first movement of Mozart's Piano Sonata in A minor.

And it's details that make up the piece of music. If too many of them or too important bits of them remain outside of your focus, then you're not really hearing the kind of aesthetic entity that the composer intended you to hear.


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## Derl (Oct 20, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> I guess one of my problems is that with electronic music, software allows you to create any sound in the world, whereas with classical, you're pretty much limited to the orchestra.


Totally understand this. With electronic music, and even rock music, due to the technology, there's seemingly infinite ways to color the sound which can make it more appealing at first. For me, once I made the distinction between actual music and the way the music was delivered so to speak, I clicked with an even wider array of types of music because I realized in a sense, that it's all kind of the same stuff, just put together differently. Classical doesn't have that, forgive me, crutch, so you're left with pure music, and pure music that tends to be really potent.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Genoveva said:


> I assume you have tried all the usual standard works that most people get started with: pieces like Bolero, Finlandia, Rosamunde, Moonlight Sonata, 1812 etc.
> 
> Most people who eventually go on to acquire a big interest in classical music usually find something of interest among these "classics" in their early days. They usually come to places like this to obtain advice on ways to cultivate that interest further. But from what you say, you aren't even at base level 1. If you have tried and get "bored instantly" listening to most of the classical music you have tried, the chances of progression don't appear all that good.
> 
> Despite what others have said, in my opinion there's no way of somehow becoming more enthusiastic about classical music just by asking people here how to do it. There has to be at least a park of enthusiasm, which from your posts appears lacking. If after a few more attempts at listening to some of this material the situation doesn't improve I think you might be better off thinking about pursuing another type of degree.


Ur original post was bettah:lol:


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Chordalrock said:


> And it's details that make up the piece of music. If too many of them or too important bits of them remain outside of your focus, then you're not really hearing the kind of aesthetic entity that the composer intended you to hear.


I basically agree with what you're saying and that post is full of good advice so rather than debate this minor point I'll just like your post and leave it at that. :tiphat:


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Maybe start with some solo instrument pieces, like piano sonatas? For example, Brahms piano sonata #1 is simply amazing, hauntingly beatiful and very accessible, and it captures quite nicely the essence of Brahms. After that it's quite convenient to move further to the Brahms world. Just as an example.


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

I was thinking about your dilemma today, OP, and thought that you might do well with arias & cantatas such as these:

Bach - Aus Liebe will mein Heiland sterben 
Purcell - Dido's Lament
Handel - Se pietà de mi non senti

Relatively simple but powerful melodies such as these:

Handel - Sarabande
Rameau - L'Entretien des Muses
Rameau - La Timide


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm going to double-down on my recommendation that the OP start with The Russians. As I posted, nobody does melodies like The Russians, and, once involved in their music, a newbie could explore the full stable of Russian Romantic composers, then dip a toe into the 20th century Russian composers. Then, over the years if that's what it takes, both newer and older musics can be compared and contrasted with what is now fairly firmly familiar and pleasing to the listener. There is no hurry, but there is a danger in being perhaps overwhelmed by the sheer number of recommended selections and composers. By starting with The Russians, the OP can mark out a personal musical territory that becomes a comfortable launch pad into all of classical music.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Continuing with my notion about Russian composers and reading again the OP, a few more points come to mind: A) The 20th century Russians were all students of the 19th century Russian Romantics/Nationalists, so there was a direct line of musical descent that can be studied as the newer composers--Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, others, learned from, then evolved from, their mentors. B) The newer composers were active creators of newer forms of music such as film scores and non-traditional ballet, and also, following Stravinsky, pioneers in newer approaches to harmony and rhythm. They were perhaps later overtaken by more adventurous practitioners in other countries, but the point is that Russian composers provide a coherent, consistent package of composers and their works linked by friendships and student-teacher relationships that can understood, enjoyed, and used as a tool to expand further into appreciating classical music.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2016)

Most people start with big symphonic works, like the Beethoven symphonies. And then you start liking more intimate chamber styles with fewer instruments. 

To get into classical, you don’t want to be overwhelmed with too much music. Don’t buy big sets of the Mozart or Mahler symphonies. This is an overkill! 

You want to be exposed to ONE work per major composer in the most important musical styles: symphony, concerto, chamber, opera and solo piano.

You want variety! 

Don’t listen to each piece just once before you make an opinion that you like it or don’t care for it. Listen to it several times. The best music takes several listenings to fully appreciate! 

And go to live concerts if you can. The experience is totally different. 

Get one piece for 10 major composers, and then 10 more pieces once you’ve listened to the first 10 several times. 

10 Suggestions: 

Sibelius: Violin Concerto
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #3
Liszt: Piano Concerto #2
Mozart: Symphony #40 (Jupiter)
Janacek: String Quartet #1 (or #2) 
Bach: Brandenburg Concerto #5
Beethoven: String Quartet Op. 59, #1
Schubert: Piano Sonata D960
Shostakovich: Symphony 5
Verdi: Requiem


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I have not read the whole thread, but from what I have seen there is a great deal of (healthy) disagreement. Let me simply share the works and performances that grabbed me - at about your age.

Beethoven - Symphony No. 7 (especially the second movement) Bruno Walter conducting. That is the recording that got me started.
Mozart - Symphony No. 35 - George Szell conducting
Brahms - Piano Trio Op. 8 - Istomin, Rose, Stern
Schubert - Symphony No. 9 - Toscanini and the Philadelphia Orchestra (from 1940)

And after those:
Bach - Well-Tempered Clavier - Glenn Gould (although nowadays I prefer Andras Schiff)

And although I was already a convert by the time it was released:
Beethoven - Symphony No. 5 Carlos Kleiber conducting. (I like to describe this as classical music's "Kind of Blue")


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

ChrisGraham said:


> Thank you for the link to Mozart! I absolutely adore his Overture to The Marriage of Figaro - I don't know if it's just my untrained ears, but it sounds slightly non-classical to me, and more romantic even (early romantic).


Mozart, along with Haydn, invented romantic music and none has bettered them. I love his great Piano Concertos more than anything in the world. Uchida is very beautiful in that adagio, up there with my benchmarks for that concerto, Perahia and Brendel. They are both superb concertos to start with, 9 is the first *really* good one. There I prefer Anda to Brendel and Perahia, though all are good. I'll be listening to this whole Uchida CD for sure after hearing that! I have her box set of Mozart Piano Sonatas, most of which are wonderful.

You have to apply a little care in picking which Mozart to start with as he wrote a lot of material when he was a pre-teen that, as you might expect, isn't really first rate. Also, his patrons demanded a lot of "superior background music" for weddings and the like. Avoid these to start with, there' s a lot of stuff worth listening to in them, but why not start with "the best". He is also very difficult to get right, so unless you seek out the real stars, like Uchida, you might have a bad experience.

That utube link then goes on to no.22, a great continuation, Uchida doing a great job, and Jeffrey Tate supporting really well with the English Chamber Orchestra. Now I'm hooked...

After 22, if you are fully enjoying it, I'd recommend going on with that run of great late concertos (22-27). Careful of over doing it though, take a break between each, try some of the other recommendations in this thread. Or you could stick with Mozart and change instruments:


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