# Mozart - Mass in C minor



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

I was listening to this piece recently and the soprano aria - "Et incarnates est" blown me away. I was listening to the recording from Gardiner/English Baroque Soloist - wonderful recording. Pure, sweet, deep and full of different tone colour and counter points! In your opinion, who has the best rendition of "Et incarnates est" and why? What about the Mass itself, which recording is in your collection?


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> I was listening to this piece recently and the soprano aria - "Et incarnates est" blown me away. I was listening to the recording from Gardiner/English Baroque Soloist - wonderful recording. Pure, sweet, deep and full of different tone colour and counter points! In your opinion, who has the best rendition of "Et incarnates est" and why? What about the Mass itself, which recording is in your collection?


Yes. That is indeed one of Mozart's greatest soprano arias.

He wrote so many on that level, however. I hope you discover the rest of them.

Mozart's greatest genius, IMO, is revealed in his arias for female voice. Nobody did it better!


----------



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

pcnog11 said:


> I was listening to this piece recently and the soprano aria - "Et incarnates est" blown me away. I was listening to the recording from Gardiner/English Baroque Soloist - wonderful recording. Pure, sweet, deep and full of different tone colour and counter points! In your opinion, who has the best rendition of "Et incarnates est" and why? What about the Mass itself, which recording is in your collection?


Well, might I suggest you go out and get yourself a good recording. After a few I can suggest, you'll probably use the the JEG recording as a coaster as it's probably all it's good for (not that I have an opinion on most of JEG's recordings - although I do like the man himself. Seems to be a nice enough fella but perhaps would have been better off making pastries for a living).

I have the following recordings:

- Raymond Leppard with New Philharmonia Orch. Kanawa & Cotrubas. Tough to beat the vocals on this one.

- Herreweghe with Orchestre de Champs Elysees. Good solid performance.

- Fricsay with Berlin Radio Symph. Orch. Desert Island recording.

- Sir Marriner with ASMF. Excellent performance. I'm a big Marriner fan when it comes to Mozart.

- Bernstein with Bavarian Radio Orch & Chorus. I know, right???? Who would've thunk it? Bernie doing great Mozart, but alas. Live performance and just outstanding! I never think of Lenny when I think of Mozart, but after hearing rave review and after rave review, I had to bite. Boy was I glad I did.

V


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> Raymond Leppard with New Philharmonia Orch. Kanawa & Cotrubas. Tough to beat the vocals on this one.


Uneatable I say.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

My favorite C minor is from Leppard/Cotrubas; Leppard and Cotrubas are exceptional.

Other recordings in my collection:

C. Davis - He conducts at least as well as Leppard, but Donath is a few steps lower than Cotrubas.

Gardiner - His usual celebratory approach that I always find highly enjoyable; singers are very fine.

Abbado - Nothing memorable at all.

Fricsay - Highly recommended because of Maria Studer; Fricsay has some ups and downs (slack tension and slow tempos).

Christie - Sometimes low on exuberance, but Petibon is compelling. What kills this version is a ridiculously fast "Et incarnates set"; butchering the most gorgeous movement in the work is problematic.

Bernstein - His zest for life overcomes some extreme tempo decisions.

Halasz - The Naxos price is inviting and Halasz and his forces do their best. However, there are times when it's obvious that the performers are not quite prime-time.

Marriner - Fine conducting, but singer placement was screwed-up in my opinion.

Herreweghe - Very disappointing. Much too comfortable and slack. This is the anti-Bulldog version.

Shaw - excellent choral work; other qualities are sub-par.

Hogwood - Excellent all-around version; zero complaints.

Somary - Surprisingly good. Exceptional pacing and enticing soloists.

Neumann - Another fine version; nobody handles vulnerability better than Barbara Schlick (the most compelling female victim I know).


----------



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Fricsay on DG is my favorite version performance-wide, but I have to say that the early stereo sound quality is flawed. Gardiner on Philips you mentioned is my favorite HIP version for sure.
I have two recordings by Marriner on Philips, the orchestra performance of the later 1993 version is among the best, and it is recorded with excellent sound quality. Earlier 1979 version is less good for me.
Davis' recording on Philips duo is also good enough to be mentioned. 
TBO, Bernstein's "personal approach" on Mozart is not my taste, but he did present his own idea well.


----------



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

This piece have some 'explosive' dynamics when it comes to the choir. Mozart was certainly quite aware that people could fall asleep during a mass and try to wake them. Well, did he learn from Haydn?


----------



## lluissineu (Dec 27, 2016)

Te kanawa/Cotrubas = perfection, but don't forget Leppard, IMO he's a master. (Agree with Varick, Pugg and Bulldog).

I've also got Davis and first Marriner (Philips) and an old version of Gonnenwein, with Edith Mathis/Helen Donath (without a waste).

One of my favourite pieces of religious music.


----------



## lluissineu (Dec 27, 2016)

Checking out: also Neumann, but I never paid attention to it. i will after Bulldog's advice.


----------



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

pcnog11 said:


> This piece have some 'explosive' dynamics when it comes to the choir. Mozart was certainly quite aware that people could fall asleep during a mass and try to wake them. Well, did he learn from Haydn?


Could Haydn learned from Mozart? I wonder.


----------



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> My favorite C minor is from Leppard/Cotrubas; Leppard and Cotrubas are exceptional.
> 
> Other recordings in my collection:
> 
> ...


I admire you have such a collection, how do you find the time to listen to all of them?


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

pcnog11 said:


> I admire you have such a collection, how do you find the time to listen to all of them?


How relevant in this question?
I have 55 La Traviata's ....


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> I admire you have such a collection, how do you find the time to listen to all of them?


I did an extensive review of these recordings about 15 years ago on Classical Net. Now, the Leppard is the one I usually reach for; Hogwood, Gardiner, Fricsay and Davis also get some playing time. The remainder just sit on the shelves gathering dust.


----------



## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Pugg said:


> How relevant in this question?
> I have 55 La Traviata's ....


And your favorite opera is...? Die Tote Stadt? :lol: (just joking, of course)

The worst thing is: some of my favorites I heard more than 55 times.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

cimirro said:


> And your favorite opera is...? Die Tote Stadt? :lol:


Just one more wrong answer before you loose the jackpot.


----------



## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Just one more wrong answer before you loose the jackpot.


ok give me a help 
first word's letter is "L" and the last word's first letter is "T"?

So it is Poulenc's "Les mamelles de Tirésias" (because "La clemenza di Tito" would be too obvious)


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

cimirro said:


> And your favorite opera is...? Die Tote Stadt? :lol: (just joking, of course)
> 
> The worst thing is: some of my favorites I heard more than 55 times.


I do think listening to Beethoven piano concertos 3 & 5 are reaching almost uncountable with me .


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

cimirro said:


> ok give me a help
> first word's letter is "L" and the last word's first letter is "T"?
> 
> So it is Poulenc's "Les mamelles de Tirésias" (because "La clemenza di Tito" would be too obvious)


Alas you missed out on the jackpot


----------



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Pugg said:


> How relevant in this question?
> I have 55 La Traviata's ....


...but......... wwhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????????????????????????.............

And I thought I was bad with 17 Goldbergs....

V


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Varick said:


> ...but......... wwhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????????????????????????.............
> 
> And I thought I was bad with 17 Goldbergs....
> 
> V


Collecting, compare and having fun.


----------



## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> I was listening to this piece recently and the soprano aria - "Et incarnates est" blown me away. I was listening to the recording from Gardiner/English Baroque Soloist - wonderful recording. Pure, sweet, deep and full of different tone colour and counter points! In your opinion, who has the best rendition of "Et incarnates est" and why? What about the Mass itself, which recording is in your collection?


I have Gardiner and Leppard. I'm not normally a big Gardiner fan as I often find his approach rather severe, but it seems to me to suit this music well. Overall I like his version better but interestingly I'm not a fan of Sylvia McNair's performance of this particular aria, which strikes me as over-breathy and rather precious, and am much happier with Ileana Cotrubas on Leppard's (perfectly serviceable) recording. _Vive la différence!_


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

One of the great choral works. Written for his wife to sing. Why Mozart never completed it is a mystery. 

Recordings I have:

Abbado

McCreesh

Marriner

Neumann

Also a version from Brilliant's Compkete Mzart edition which is pretty good

McCreesh leads the field imo


----------



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> One of the great choral works. Written for his wife to sing. Why Mozart never completed it is a mystery.
> 
> Recordings I have:
> 
> ...


Yes - I have the Brilliant set and pulled the c minor out expecting less than excellent - it is a decent performance.


----------



## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh yes, the _Mass in C minor_! I'm a big fan of the opening 'Kyrie' in this work.


----------



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

DavidA said:


> One of the great choral works. Written for his wife to sing. Why Mozart never completed it is a mystery.
> 
> Recordings I have:
> 
> ...


Maybe if the work is finished, then it would not be as famous. Nevertheless, great piece, good stuff!


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> Yes - I have the Brilliant set and pulled the c minor out expecting less than excellent - it is a decent performance.


I got the whole set for 20 pounds from a charity shop. The performances are perhaps not the very best but generally they are very acceptable and in some cases very good.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Mass was written as a celebration of Mozart's relationship and marriage to Constanze Weber. She sang the first performance which gives lie to the nonsense portrayal in Schaffer's Amadeus.


----------



## CDs (May 2, 2016)

Can anybody comment on Solti's version?


----------



## Iota (Jun 20, 2018)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I have Gardiner [...] I'm not normally a big Gardiner fan as I often find his approach rather severe, but it seems to me to suit this music well. _Vive la différence!_


I recently got over a minor addiction to this recording. I'd concur that Gardiner can be quite hard driven in Bach at times, but here I found the pairing a consummation devoutly to be wished. As they say.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Arleen Auger, Frederica von Stade, Frank Lopardo & Cornelius Hauptmann

Chor und Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Leonard Bernstein


On D.G, very good.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I think the "Salzburgian-ness" of this work is largely overlooked by many people today


----------

