# Most grueling single-instrument, orchestral part



## njk345 (Feb 14, 2016)

So I was recently listening to Bolero and, as one might imagine, I began to contemplate how tedious (and nerve-wracking, especially at the beginning) its endless snare drum part must be. This got me thinking about some of the other more grueling, repetitive orchestral parts out there, but beyond some of the other instruments in bolero and that snare part in the 1st mov. of shostakovich's 7th, I wasn't able to conjure up too many. Can anybody else think of any? Just curious...


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

How about all the string pizzacati (yes, that's correct plural Italian) in the 3rd mvt of Tchaikovsky's 4th? I'd bet the string players all groan when the conductor announces, "OK, next concert, we're playing Tchaikovsky 4!" If I was a string player, I would absolutely despise that piece.

Or if you want to flip around the other way, consider the 1st trombone part in the Brahms 1st Symphony. They have to sit there for the first three mvts without playing a single note, at least a good half-hour (or even longer if the conductor decides to take the 1st-mvt repeat), and then, 46 bars into the last mvt, whammo! they have to hit a high A above middle C, and what's more, they have to do it "PIANO". And then, to add more insult to injury, Brahms marked it "dolce"!

Here's a clip of it from the Solti-Chicago recording:

View attachment 81469


(The trombone entry is 13 seconds into the clip.)

How'd you like to be that 1st Trombone player, sitting for three whole movements, sweating about whether or not this is going to be the time that you're going to crack that note like an egg busting open?

(Most trombone players are probably sneaky enough to get in a few hidden, pianissimo notes here and there during the preceding mvts' louder parts, maybe even matching some notes the celli are playing to mask it even further, so as to keep the blood flowing in their lips so the 4th mvt entry isn't quite so terrifying. You know how low brass players are, they're all so underhanded and uncouth.







)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: Similar deals with repetitive snare drum parts in Nielsen's Fifth Symphony and Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony.

Tedious, perhaps.

I would think snare drum players would get in a long line to play any of those three parts.

Welcome to TC, by the way. Excellent post!


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

dsphipps100 said:


> How about all the string pizzacati (yes, that's correct plural Italian) in the 3rd mvt of Tchaikovsky's 4th? I'd bet the string players all groan when the conductor announces, "OK, next concert, we're playing Tchaikovsky 4!" If I was a string player, I would absolutely despise that piece.


I think they actually quite enjoy it - it's different, bows down and play like a guitar! Endless Bruckner tremolos, on the other hand, are definitely dreaded


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

dgee said:


> I think they actually quite enjoy it - it's different, bows down and play like a guitar! Endless Bruckner tremolos, on the other hand, are definitely dreaded


I've heard string players complain about how hard that piece is on their right-hand finger tips. Their left hand fingers are calloused from constantly pressing the fingerboard, but their right hand, simply holding the bow all the time, has no such callousing to protect it, and then suddenly they have to spend the better part of six minutes continuously plucking those metal and/or synthetic fiber strings. That would get really uncomfortable pretty quick.

Oh, and the violins and violas keep their instruments on their shoulders. I seem to recall Mahler asking the violins/violas to hold them like guitars or mandolins or whatever somewhere in his music, but for Tchaikovsky 4 as for most examples of pizzicato, they keep their instruments on their shoulders.

Here's a video of Michael Tilson Thomas and San Francisco where you can see for yourself:


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

dsphipps100 said:


> I've heard string players complain about how hard that piece is on their right-hand finger tips. Their left hand fingers are calloused from constantly pressing the fingerboard, but their right hand, simply holding the bow all the time, has no such callousing to protect it, and then suddenly they have to spend the better part of six minutes continuously plucking those metal and/or synthetic fiber strings. That would get really uncomfortable pretty quick.
> 
> Oh, and the violins and violas keep their instruments on their shoulders. I seem to recall Mahler asking the violins/violas to hold them like guitars or mandolins or whatever somewhere in his music, but for Tchaikovsky 4 as for most examples of pizzicato, they keep their instruments on their shoulders.
> 
> Here's a video of Michael Tilson Thomas and San Francisco where you can see for yourself:


Nice video! And yes you're very right - I got myself confused with another work I played recently (how very confusing) and yes, the technical demands obviously require it to be on the shoulder. I will have to insist tho, that every time I've played it the string players enjoyed themselves greatly...


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

How about the brass ostinato that begins Bax's Sixth Symphony. That in particular must be taxing.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

While it isn't a repetitive piece, I should imagine that the first horn has one helluva time in Mahler's 5th. They get two full movements of Mahler then have to play the scherzo which amounts to a concerto for horn and orchestra then two more movements. And to top it off, some conductors bring the first horn up front during the scherzo.

And then there is the (in)famous start to Rheingold where the 8 horns have to come in in sequence until all are playing waves of arpeggios while the bassoons are hold a B flat for 136 bars. There is a story about the first Rheingold studio recording with Solti & the VPO, where they were having trouble getting a perfect take of that section. The take that was actually used was done late one evening after the orchestra had been eating and drinking without realizing that they were going to do one more take. The moral of the story is to have a few glasses of wine or beer before performing the Ring.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Becca said:


> There is a story about the first Rheingold studio recording with Solti & the VPO, where they were having trouble getting a perfect take of that section. The take that was actually used was done late one evening after the orchestra had been eating and drinking without realizing that they were going to do one more take. The moral of the story is to have a few glasses of wine or beer before performing the Ring.


Here are the actual pages from the book, "Ring Resounding" by the Ring Cycle's producer, John Culshaw. At the beginning of page 101, the orchestra has just returned from an opera performance at the Vienna State Opera, and they are tired, but they are quite sober at this point. But keep reading....



















And now, with that information in mind, here's the part they "played like gods".

View attachment 81481


I bet you guys will never listen to that part of the Solti-Vienna Rheingold the same way again for the rest of your lives, huh?


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Ask any cellist about dreaded, boring, repetitive parts, and I can almost guarantee that you will only ever get one response: Pachelbel's Canon in D. I stopped playing the cello about 20 years ago, but I still have those 8 notes seared into my brain: D A B F# G D G A.

I guess it's still not as bad as the snare drum part in Bolero because it isn't nearly as long. But we have to play it ALL THE TIME! We played it for pretty much every string quartet gig we had when I was in college.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

dsphipps100 said:


> Here are the actual pages from the book, "Ring Resounding" by the Ring Cycle's producer, John Culshaw. At the beginning of page 101, the orchestra has just returned from an opera performance at the Vienna State Opera, and they are tired, but they are quite sober at this point.


Thank you. My copy of the book has been in storage for about 9 months so I was unable to access it to remember the details of the incident.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

How about the Turangalîla-symfonie with the irritating Ondes Martenot.
I still have nightmares from it


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

A friend of mine who used to be an orchestral second violin hated playing Schubert's "Great C major". According to her they were "on duty" more or less constantly throughout the piece playing mostly not very interesting accompaniment figures.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Becca said:


> While it isn't a repetitive piece, I should imagine that the first horn has one helluva time in Mahler's 5th. They get two full movements of Mahler then have to play the scherzo which amounts to a concerto for horn and orchestra then two more movements.


But the fourth movement (Adagietto) is scored for just strings and harp, so all the wind and percussion players get a 10-minute break there.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Even worse than the Brahms 1 trombone entrance mentioned earlier is the Beethoven 5 first trombone entrance. To be fair, it isn't soft, it is with the rest of the orchestra, and it is written for an alto trombone, but sitting through 3 tacets just to come in on a C5 is scary.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Animal the Drummer said:


> A friend of mine who used to be an orchestral second violin hated playing Schubert's "Great C major". According to her they were "on duty" more or less constantly throughout the piece playing mostly not very interesting accompaniment figures.


I read that one of the London orchestras refused to play the Great C-major because of this. In the last movement -- Da-da-da-dum da-da-da-dum and on and on and on...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The trumpet in the last movement of Bach second Brandenderg concerto - fiendishly difficult I hear.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

njk345 said:


> Bolero


it's still a masterpiece.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

ALL the trumpet parts in Short Ride in a Fast Machine. Not too bad if you have an E-flat or D trumpet, but since I own only a b-flat and a C (stereotypical broke college student), it was absolutely BRUTAL to play it. I played third trumpet on it once, and it's the most difficult thing I've yet played in any ensemble. Required an insane amount of range and endurance, but also had a ton of weird rhythms. The worst part? I had to learn it in a week. Still didn't have all the rhythms down by concert time! But the sheer awesomeness of the piece made up for it.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

The first trumpet player in Scrabin's 'Poem of Ecstacy' - much as I love the piece, having to play that same theme, over and over must get tedious.
For an easy day's work, what about being the bell player in Shostakovich's 11th symphony? I went to see a performance a few years back where they used proper cast bells rather than tubular bells, and the player sat there with his set of bells all through the entire symphony without, of course, having to do anything until the very end


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

There is a lyrical 3 1/2 minute solo for English Horn 2/3 of the way through the first movement of the Shostakovich Symphony No. 8. Practically non-stop playing. One must have incredible breath control and perfect intonation to carry this off.

Who says a grueling solo must be fast?

For me a long wind solo is the greatest test of instrumental virtuosity.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

hpowders said:


> There is a lyrical 3 1/2 minute solo for English Horn 2/3 of the way through the first movement of the Shostakovich Symphony No. 8. Practically non-stop playing. One must have incredible breath control and perfect intonation to carry this off.
> 
> Who says a grueling solo must be fast?
> 
> For me a long wind solo is the greatest test of instrumental virtuosity.


Having performed the clarinet solo at the beginning of the 3rd mvt in Rachmaninov's 2nd, I can definitely see your point. (Although, as far as intonation goes, since the soloist is currently the "lead" at that moment, the others in the orchestra are actually expected to adjust their intonation to that person. But you've got a good point otherwise.







)


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

From a hornist point of view, there are far too many oom-pahs. Any waltz, gallop or march is going to be full of them. The less said about Leroy Anderson the better. They are taxing on the lip as you need to stay in the same pitch tension for the whole time but only play half the time with little effect.


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