# A Wagnerian Raises a Toast



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

_May 22nd, 2013, shortly after midnight._

_The Wagnerian fills her glass and gets up._

- Two hundred years ago on this very day in the German city of Leipzig there was born a man. A man of humble origins, often in debt and lacking money, and yet someone who has left an inheritance far greater and nobler than any of the kings and rulers of the earth. A man who has never held a political office and yet contributed to his nation's identity and good reputation more than most of those who have. A man much misunderstood, misused and abused, whose legacy is surrounded with a thousand controversies, and yet who inspires in the hearts of many a most sincere reverence. The possibly greatest musician who has ever walked the highways and the mountain paths of this world: *Richard Wagner*.

As we gather today to honor the man who has given us all great joy and infinite beauty (and those who don't feel that way are free to leave now), I propose a toast.

Here's to Richard Wagner, the most German of all Germans and the master of all masters! 
Here's to the beauty of music and to the magic of poetic inspiration.
Here's to the spirit of myth and legend, handed down across the centuries and carefully preserved to be given a new, wonderful life.
Here's to the love and the pride, to the joy of creating and of partaking in a glorious creation 
Here's to the holy German art - may it live for a thousand years and longer!

Happy Birthday, Richard!

Prost! :cheers:

_The Wagnerian empties her glass and raises her eyes to the sky. And from the farthest reaches of the universe, from the halls of Valhalla, where the chosen Teutonic souls feast side by side with their gods, she hears a distant echo of a mighty shout: "Hail! Hail! Hail"_


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Good stuff, Siegendeslicht! Hope you enjoy your composers birthday tomorrow. Mine's a Guinness... :cheers::cheers:


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Wagner was truly a special musician. His works have given me great joy, and I look forward to many years of continued listening and enjoyment. 

The last act of Die Walküre is certainly one of the most moving works of drama I have ever witnessed, and the Liebestod is among the most beautiful music I've ever heard.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

To the man who celebrated word and music in an unsurpassed feast! 

To inspiration and infinite beauty!

And Prost! :cheers:


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## Guest (May 21, 2013)

I raise a superb Löwenbräu beer to RW.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> _The Wagnerian empties her glass and raises her eyes to the sky. And from the farthest reaches of the universe, from the halls of Valhalla, where the chosen Teutonic souls feast side by side with their gods, she hears a distant echo of a mighty shout: "Hail! Hail! Hail"_


I'll have what she's having. 

On second thought, you'll pardon me if I merely nod in assent. If I've learned anything from Wagnerian drama, it's that nothing good ever came of raising your glass in a toast. :devil:


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

A toast to the Master! May his music be eternal.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A paraphrase of Lucky Jack Aubrey:

"To Wagner and our stereos. May they never meet!"


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Darned liquor store. Closed for inventory indeed.

Oh well, here's to Richard! Prost! :cheers:


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

ahammel said:


> Darned liquor store. Closed for inventory indeed.
> 
> Oh well, here's to Richard! Prost! :cheers:


way ahead of you...way ahead


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

You don't need alcohol ! Get intoxicated on Wagner's music ! Unlike alcohol, Wagner's music will never 
cause you to get arrested for drunk driving, send you tot he hospital for delerium tremens, give you cirrhosis of the liver, or send you to alcoholcs anonymous !


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## Volve (Apr 14, 2013)

Indeed, this is a joyous day! Aye my brothers, let's raise a glass in the name of He, who moved so many souls with His music. I cannot imagine my life without this music now, and His legacy shall live with me, and many others, till the day my soul goes to Vallhalla, where we shall drink with the master Himself. But that day is far still, and untill then, I look forward to many more years of musical awe!

Prost! :cheers:


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

superhorn said:


> You don't need alcohol ! Get intoxicated on Wagner's music ! Unlike alcohol, Wagner's music will never
> cause you to get arrested for drunk driving, send you tot he hospital for delerium tremens, give you cirrhosis of the liver, or send you to alcoholcs anonymous !


Well alcohol has never done any of those things to me either, so I'm having a beer.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

A great composer, true. But I cannot "toast" someone who was apparently so strongly anti-Semitic. Wagner's music is indeed amazing -- although I cannot place him at the pinnacle of composers. That spot I reserve for Mozart. And yes, sometimes an artist's contribution should be considered separate from that artist's personal beliefs or character. So I'll happily give Wagner a qualified heads up.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Raising that toast


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

We might raise a glass to Wagner the musician but it soon turns sour when we consider Wagner the man.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I failed to book off work tomorrow but I will be sure to celebrate such that his music accompanies my work all day long, followed by a full opera in the evening. In other words, I will treat it no different from any other day.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

DavidA said:


> We might raise a glass to Wagner the musician but it soon turns sour when we consider Wagner the man.


I liked this because it is a concise summary of what will be every news article and blog post tomorrow.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Headgear for tomorrow.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

superhorn said:


> You don't need alcohol ! Get intoxicated on Wagner's music ! Unlike alcohol, Wagner's music will never
> cause you to get arrested for drunk driving, send you tot he hospital for delerium tremens, give you cirrhosis of the liver, or send you to alcoholcs anonymous !


Ever actually drive your car down a freeway with_ Ride of the Valkyries _playing? Not any safer.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Ever actually drive your car down a freeway with_ Ride of the Valkyries _playing?


Works for helicopters.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DavidA said:


> We might raise a glass to Wagner the musician but it soon turns sour when we consider Wagner the man.


Moralistic nonsense.

Personally, I'm sick of one composer who had a spectacular affair being consistently singled out from so many other composers who had affairs, and too, composers being singled out for having had affairs when they are such a tiny part of the population who have had affairs.

I suggest if one wants to parade their massive empathy for those who have suffered by their spouse having had an affair, or for those who wish to parade their moral outrage about those who have affairs and the damages to others as a result of those affairs, or for those truly concerned about this sort of matter _to post a specific thread on that subject in an appropriate category_ rather than interjecting into or waylaying an OP the subject of which is music, and the creators of it.

*Oh, and hats off to musical genius in general, in this case specifically, Wagner,* who is a composer whose work I don't care for one jot, but who was -- undeniably -- a master composer.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Moralistic nonsense.
> 
> Personally, I'm sick of one composer who had a spectacular affair being consistently singled out from so many other composers who had affairs, and too, composers being singled out for having had affairs when they are such a tiny part of the population who have had affairs.
> 
> ...


Master composer maybe. But you really need to think deeper than that. If someone posted on this board expressing the same views on race as Wagner he would no doubt be banned by the moderators. To find such views distasteful is not 'moralistic nonsense.'

It is not for his affairs Wagner is singled out. It is for his clearly expressed racism.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Master composer maybe. But you really need to think deeper than that. If someone posted on this board expressing the same views on race as Wagner he would no doubt be banned by the moderators. To find such views distasteful is not 'moralistic nonsense.'
> 
> It is not for his affairs Wagner is singled out. It is for his clearly expressed racism.


Get a grip and a historic context - well over half of Europeans talked that way about Jews, some of them only to appear fashionable, though that is how the slippery slope starts. Maybe wait for the next Chopin post, then while we're at it: he complained, in a negative cliche manner about Jews, in re: publishers, and because he had a personal tic with Meyerbeer.

I see so many posts in the vein - Wagner was racist, this composer was that, as so much display of those poster's overwhelming spiritual and / or moral vanity -- all of that, to me, is completely off point, extremely distorted and out of context.

Back to the man and the music then, and not some extreme and exaggerated focus on an everyday bad bit of social behavior also common to a vast amount of his contemporaries.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Cheers. :cheers: Ten characters


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Hail to the Wagnerites - I'm pretty ignorant, apart from *Valkyries*, but that's never stopped me raising a glass before. Prost! (My new word.) Also 'Bottoms Up', 'Slainte', 'Salut' & 'Here's mud in your eye!'


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Of all endless threads in this forum you can bash Wagner as much as you like, why do some people have to come to this one?

This thread was made to celebrate. If you don't agree, at least respect those who do. You can talk whatever you like in other threads.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Headgear for tomorrow.


I dunno ... those look artificial to me.


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## Parsifal1954 (May 6, 2013)

I, too raise my glass to toast a great man, unfortunately still misunderstood. He was not a nationalist in terms of German superiority. He believed in the superiority of the "Geraman art" not German militarism. Just listen to the end of Die Meistersinger. He was not anti-semite the way he has been portraid. He was anti-Capitalism. He, like amny others in his time and before believed that some (not all. He had many friends who were jews, Hermann Levi, etc.) as representatives of Capitalism (Greed, lust for power and money). One can see the same in works of Shakepeare, Dickens, Dostoyevsky, etc. His misfortune was Hitler loved his music (and never understood them since they would show him what is the result of lust for power). So, I raise my glass to toast a great man, not a great German since he belongs to the whole mankind. Happy birthday Richard.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

Cheers to an incomparable genius. In the words of Ernest Newman:

"Such a combination had never existed in a single individual before; it has never happened since, and in all probability it will never happen again."


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Here is a treat to get the blood circulating this morning:


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Happy birthday, Richard Wagner! :tiphat:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

DavidA this has been discussed to death in numerous threads specifically dedicated to Wagner's shortcomings as a person. If you feel there is yet more to be said, please take the discussion there. This thread is a celebration of Wagner's achievements and you are off-topic. I've reported your posts and hopefully moderators will move them to an appropriate thread.


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## Volve (Apr 14, 2013)

I find it astonishing that people come here to a thread dedicated to celebrate Wagner's art and start bashing him. Stupidly disrespectful, and you people should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't like Wagner, that's fine, to each his own, but find another thread or create your own in order to act like that, specially on such an important day for us Wagnerians. Unbelievable how people can be so inconsiderate.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Couchie said:


> DavidA this has been discussed to death in numerous threads specifically dedicated to Wagner's shortcomings as a person. If you feel there is yet more to be said, please take the discussion there. This thread is a celebration of Wagner's achievements and you are off-topic. I've reported your posts and hopefully moderators will move them to an appropriate thread.


May I just say that I posted a thread (liked by yourself) in which I expressed my opinion in mild terms. I admire the music but not the man. I was going to leave it at that. But then someone else decides he cannot rest until he bashes my remark by calling it 'moralistic nonsense'. I am surely justified in defending my opinion. However having done so I will leave it at that. I apologise if my remarks are inconvenient. But sadly they have history behind them.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Volve said:


> I find it astonishing that people come here to a thread dedicated to celebrate Wagner's art and start bashing him. Stupidly disrespectful, and you people should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't like Wagner, that's fine, to each his own, but find another thread or create your own in order to act like that, specially on such an important day for us Wagnerians. Unbelievable how people can be so inconsiderate.


As I have said above, I apologise if stating the clear facts of history in response to a somewhat vitriolic attack on my initially mildly expressed opinion has upset people.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

Today we celebrate the man’s gift, and everybody’s invited! :tiphat:


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia I*


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

TxllxT said:


>


That is a _remarkably_ unflattering likeness.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia II*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia III*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia IV*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia V*


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

That monument of Wagner as a grail knight is beautiful, but the next picture is simply bad taste.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia VI*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia VII*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia VIII*


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia IX*


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

TxllxT said:


>


I've changed my mind: _this_ is a remarkably unflattering likeness. Presumably it was sketched while he was in the middle of a particularly tough orchestration problem?


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

*Wagnerianalia X*


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Could someone please make SiegendesLicht's avatar a bit bigger?


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

> Wagnerianalia I-X


The critic speaks: Accusations of banal, repetitive and overbearing are _not_ limited to Wagner. 

But have a beer, and enjoy! :cheers:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Zabirilog said:


> Could someone please make SiegendesLicht's avatar a bit bigger?


Here you are:


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Thanks! I just hope that Wagner was really not a sith lord...


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Zabirilog said:


> Thanks! I just hope that Wagner was really not a sith lord...


gosh ... so that's not Luke OR Darth? (I was going to ask.)


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

guythegreg said:


> gosh ... so that's not Luke OR Darth? (I was going to ask.)


Wagner was actually a disguised Necromonger Lord. Nonetheless, his part should be played by Vin Diesel.


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## AndreasFink (Feb 11, 2013)

One of my most favorite places in the area of Bonn, where I studied, is the mountain Drachenfels, there is just a wonderful sight from the top of it on the city and the Rhine. Well, this mountain is exactly the place of the legendary fight between Siegfried and the dragon Fafner, since 1913 (!) there is even a museum of the Wagner's opera "The Ring Of The Nibelung", called Nibelungenhalle. It was exactly Siegendes Licht, the author of this article, who told me everything about it, that the area is not just a mountain, but also with a very special cultural context. Thanks a lot to her!
By the way: "Drachenfels" means in German "dragon's rock". Actually the mountain is called so because of the mineral trachyte, which was won there during centuries. But of course most of people connect the name with the wonderful legend, which was immortalized by the great composer.


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

Happy birthday Richard! 

Yesterday I bought 3 Wagner dvds, I'm super happy!

Greetings for all the wagnerians or people who like Wagner in all the world!

:cheers:


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

Happy 200th Wagner! (We are not on a first name basis yet) There can be no denying your genius. You are currently in my car stereo and I think your music has been freaking people out at stop lights. You are the King Of Drama.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Happy 200th to one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time.

I'm going to celebrate by breaking open my first complete recording of the Ring ever.









Let's get the party started! :tiphat:


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Wagner was actually a disguised Necromonger Lord. Nonetheless, his part should be played by Vin Diesel.


Yes. Absolutely.


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## Amleth (May 24, 2013)

Wagner had definitely realised a lot about storytelling, theatre & music of course and squeezed something new out of these elements and lifted it up to whole new level.

So hats off to timeless and revolutionary composer!


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## Oliver (Feb 14, 2012)

I love Wagner, as a person.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

GeneralOJB said:


> I love Wagner, as a person.


My dear, if you truly loved Wagner you would not be writing it here, but on the memo line of a cheque made out to Wagner.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

*Five Years Later*

_May 22nd, 2018, shortly after midnight.

The Wagnerian fills her glass and gets up._

It has been five years since. Five years, during which I have just about every dream of mine realized - and all this time your music has accompanied me. We are way closer now, Richard, and share the same homeland. And I am sure you remember me standing over your grave in Bayreuth and weeping sweet tears, because that Parsifal had just been so beautiful... Something like that happens only once in a lifetime. And for that I am thankful.

Here's to you and to the immortal art - and to the next and coming years. Prost! :cheers:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Happy Birthday Richard Wagner!
And thank you!!!
:tiphat: :cheers:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Wagner is the best composer!!


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## JRI (Jan 5, 2013)

Happy Birthday Richard Wagner! And thank you for your wonderful Operas!


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