# My first classical piece. I hope you will like it.



## ickefes

Hi Talk Classical friends. This is my first classical piece ever so I do not expect it to be the best thing you have heard lately but I would like you to hear it and hopefully find it good. Please write your opinions and I will gladly read and comment. Regards.

Rickard Gerthsson - Vinterbris @ Musescore.com


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## Jord

Starting off with the criticisms and what i didn't like, i didn't like how you used accidentals and modulation, it sounded really unnecessary and too random, for that kind of piece i don't think it needed that kind of atonality, especially bar 10 beat 3, it doesn't fit at all, and my last criticism i think the last chord could use a different voicing, instead of going B - A - G# - F# then ending with a chord with notes higher than the BAGF passage, end with a chord that has the E below the last F# you played as the highest note, and overall everything seemed to be very on the beat, i think you should include more syncopation and everything will come to life more.

Onto what i liked, i thought bar 18 was interesting aswell as the bar 32 the 3/8 bar and i thought the best part of the piece was bars 35 - 38.


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## Ramako

I think it is good. However let me criticize it since that is the point :lol:

It doesn't sound sound entirely comfortable. Sometimes I felt it tried to be classical by borrowing cliches. The section I have most issue with (which includes most of these cliches) is bars 9-22. I just don't feel these bars are as good as the rest of the piece, somehow the ideas don't flow. I think the other sections are all more interesting.

I liked most of the accidentals you used (although like the above I didn't like bar 10) but the primary chord sequence in bar 1 is very recognisable.

Your voice leading could be a lot worse actually, I don't know how much counterpoint you've done bit if it isn't very much then I am very impressed. Still I think some of the voice-leading could be much improved - bar 18 for example sounds very dodgy to me although the above commentor likes it.

Going back to my original point, it doesn't convince me of being classical somehow. I don't think it's just the guitar (instrumentation doesn't define a genre I think). Probably it's the voice leading thing. Anyway if this is your first classical piece then that is to be expected. Well done overall!


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## etkearne

The piece had a pleasing form to it and has much room to be improved. The good news is that it won't be too difficult to improve once you grasp the following:

In a classical-era piece, the chord progressions generally do not involve random modulation. Thus, with a, say, C Major Scale being used: C-D-E-F-G-A-B, you generate a specific set of chords from those notes: CM - Dm - Em - FM - GM - Am - Bdim. Most composers of the classical era would stick to those and only modulate to another key on a_ pivot chord._ A pivot chord is one that contains all of the notes from the original key and at least two of three notes (preferably all three) of the future key. Pivoting on the fourth is common.

The second way to modulate (quicker than with pivot chords) is by maintaining an _interval class relationship_. Thus, if you start on a C Maj7 Chord (CEGB) and move to the note "A" on the C Major Scale, but do NOT want to use A Minor 7 (as predicted by the harmonization), you could alter the tones to create a chord of the same quality: A Maj7, which contains the notes AC#EG#, thus modulating to a new key in one chord while maintaining continuity.

I would suggest going back and trying these techniques out. Note, however, that until the late Romantic and early 20th Century eras, the second form of modulation is not as common as the "pivot chord" technique. You have made a good start and I look forward to hearing the reworked composition or another one that uses the techniques I described.

Welcome to the forum!


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## ickefes

Thank you all for listening to the song and giving me criticism. I can see that you are well knowledgeable when it comes to musical theory. I like that. I am also glad that it, if I understand you all correctly, isn't too bad, because I have mostly been playing Punk/Rock/Blues music my whole life except for playing classical guitar for a few years when I was around ten years old.

*Jord*:
I agree with you about the syncopation. The song goes "straight on" all through. When you say modulation, what exactly do you mean? I know from recording what modulation is that area so I guess it is how something changes variably from its original state somehow? When I played not ending with an open E major I thought it sounded too low but I will try it again and see what I can do. Bars 35-38... Funny you say you liked it the most since that part came "to life" probably easiest of the whole piece but I guess the simplest stuff is usually the best.

*Ramako*:
When you say it sounded a bit cliché, can you please name compositions that I can listen to that my piece sounds like? I am not all saying you are wrong but I am just interested since. I only know about four to five classical pieces myself mostly written my Mauro Guilliani so it would be fun to know where I accidentally picked up some ideas without knowing it.

Thank you for the counterpoint complament (spelling?). I had to look up what you mean by it and I don't know how I came up with the counterpointing actually. Play, wrote, played, rewrote etc. Bar 10... Hm, I actually liked that one myself 

*etkearne*:
Thank you for the pivot chord lesson. I really appreciate you telling me about it since I can probably find that really useful in the future.


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## Ramako

Basically what I meant is that the ideas in bars 9-22 sounded to me like someone trying to sound like Mozart. It was just my impression. It doesn't sound so much like any classical pieces, and sounding like its trying to sound like them, if that makes any sense... I can't direct you to any specific pieces, sorry.

Heed etkearnes wise words about pivot chords. It's never a way I've thought about modulating myself, however if it works then that's great. I think it would work with your style.

And well done on the counterpoint again!


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## ickefes

*Ramako*:
I understand you. Sometimes music sound alike even if the intention was not to copy another's work. With Mozart I actually only can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (I am serious). I have to start listening to more classical composers which in turn might give me more ideas and influences.

I tried last night to improve my song but I could not in a very different way improve it. I guess though it was because I was very tired but hopefully I can make some changes later on.

Thank you all, guys!


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## Squirrel

Well I'm not qualified to comment on the technical aspects so don't expect too much serious response from me, other than "I like it" and "It takes a little while to get going, but then it's good"


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## ickefes

Squirrel said:


> Well I'm not qualified to comment on the technical aspects so don't expect too much serious response from me, other than "I like it" and "It takes a little while to get going, but then it's good"


Well thank you Squirrel! Your compliment made me really glad. Like you said, it takes a little while to get going, is probably because I like unexpected things in music. Regards.


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## Jord

ickefes said:


> *Jord*:When you say modulation, what exactly do you mean? I know from recording what modulation is that area so I guess it is how something changes variably from its original state somehow?


Modulation is changing from one key to another, you didn't really change key, i couldn't think about how to explain it, the way you used accidentals and notes not in E major just didn't sound right to my ears at all, but that's only my view, if you like it then it doesn't matter what i think


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## etkearne

Another thing I would add: You end up repeating significantly large sections of the work, which is fine for some types of classical music. But generally, it is not a good thing to just repeat something verbatim. I would suggest, as a start, simply to repeat it on a modulated key. So, if the original tune is in C Major, shift everything up a perfect fourth to F Major. Some scorewriters make this very easy so all you have to do is tell it to do that and it will do all the tedious work for you. 

Adding variety is key in classical music compared to the other major types of music. It took me a long time to get used to that aspect of composition, and I still struggle with it occasionally since it is actually a GOOD thing to repeat very long sections in most types of popular music or even jazz.

I am glad you will try the pivot chord technique. It is a relatively fast and very safe way of modulating without the listener being like "Wait...where are we, exactly?"

Be sure to share any future work as you have good potential, especially in counterpoint.


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## ickefes

Jord:
I really appreciate your (and rest of yours) critique so don't feel bad for saying so. Compared to other forums you fellows actually give me more than just saying what you don't like, you even give me the exact measure and and what you base your critique on. I love that.

Etkearne:
Yes, I understand what you say about repeating larger sections that is more common in popular music. I think it is "residue" from my Rock music liking. I can look at doing a quarter key lift somehow. I tried changing the piece two days ago and it was hard. I was so used to the composition so it will take a lot of work to chnge even the slightest thing, I guess.


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## etkearne

Rickard- I hope you stay here and show us more of your works when you write them. It is great to have more composers on the forum. Let us know of any progress you are making.

Evan


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## ickefes

Thank you Evan. Those words mean a lot! Regards.


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## PhileasFogg

I've never heard a guitar sound baroque before. Perhaps it wasn't intended but it somehow came off that way to me. But, I mean that as a compliment. I really enjoyed it


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