# Isn't it outrageous!?



## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

At the beginning of September, with the start of the school-year, I bought the Musical education textbook and found myself quite unpleasantly surprised after flipping the pages over.

There are some things missing! Some important things, IMO.  

I'm not a musicologist, certainly, but I think a textbook for the 4th grade of gymnasium (that's how we call a kind of highschools in Croatia - highschools that prepare their students for further education at universities - 4th grade means 17-18 y.o. students) ought to mention the vast musical influence of composers such are Bruckner, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Britten and other British. 
They are just that - mentioned! No works of theirs analised, no further discussion, no sample recordings of their works on the accompanying CDs.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Well... at least your book _mentioned_ Bruckner. (My college Music Appreciation book didn't.) The lack of coverage doesn't hurt _us_ so much. [After all, we have this great on-line resource here, don't we? ] It does, however, kind of cheat your classmates, and mine.

I guess that if the authors were here to defend themselves, they would say "our time/space/budget was limited. Who would you like me to cut to make room for the excerpts you seek?"

Still, you ought'nt say you've covered the late 19th Century symphony without hearing some Bruckner-- and you SURE can't say you've covered the form in the early 20th century without sampling Sibelius.


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## Oneiros (Aug 28, 2006)

When all else fails, there's always wikipedia. Maybe if poor old Bruckner had finished his 9th, he might have ascended one notch higher in the Beethovenian cult status, and received due mention. Alas, Brahms, you were right: the giant's footsteps still assert their dominance, and such mortals as we are bound to fall short of those lofty heights.


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## Keemun (Mar 2, 2007)

How was Mahler treated in your book? I would imagine the same as Bruckner and Sibelius, but I'm interested to see if he was given more or less attention.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Mahler? They did write a short biography with a few photos. And on the CDs we had a sample of the 3rd mvt.'s funeral march from his First Symphony. The chapter under which Mahler was presented was 'The Romantic Symphony'. So he got some attention. 
Only I'm not sure if I'd really classify his works as 'Romantic symphonies'. Perhaps the 1st. But only perhaps.


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Ha! I'd love to see a composer mentioned in my A level textbook!

All I've got is information on musicals and how to compose music - nothing about the history of classical music. I think we are expected to learn about that aspect of the course on our own, but even so! Outrageous! Well that's my weekly rant out of the way - I feel much better now - Thank You!


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Writing music text books for schools seems to have been an area where charlatans can make a living alongside experts. 
I have seen one that stated that blues songs are generally about the experience of slavery. Another said that Dixieland jazz got its name from the Dixie States, which got theirs from the word "Dix" on a ten-dollar note. My wife Carol, who teaches music in high school, frequently encounters blunders in printed materials, often in the form of badly defined terms.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Is musical education obligatory in your country? I mean, is it included in compulsory school?


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Britain: to age 14. How about Croatia?


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Yes, also until 14 (that is, the end of compulsory education). Then, if you choose to go to a gymnasium and not to some technical or crafts school, you'll have music for another four years (one lesson a week)... together with a whole lot of other subjects.

P.S. Isle of Arran? But that's Ireland, isn't it?


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## Frasier (Mar 10, 2007)

Lisztfreak said:


> I'm not a musicologist, certainly, but I think a textbook for the 4th grade of gymnasium (that's how we call a kind of highschools in Croatia - highschools that prepare their students for further education at universities - 4th grade means 17-18 y.o. students) ought to mention the vast musical influence of composers such are Bruckner, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Britten and other British.They are just that - mentioned! No works of theirs analised, no further discussion, no sample recordings of their works on the accompanying CDs.


What seems outrageous - and probably good that works weren't analysed (so you haven't wasted what must be precious time) - the composers you mention didn't have any "vast musical influence" except Sibelius. Bruckner and Britten were conservative, reflecting what was already going on - in Britten's case, harmony and rules from 150 years earlier. Admittedly he kept British music - opera in particular - alive, far more than, say, Tippett who wrote operas but whose audience is limited to a very few fans. Strauss? Post-Wagnerian but influencing music hardly at all.

I think you need to look elsewhere - Beethoven, Liszt, Debussy....


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Lisztfreak said:


> Yes, also until 14 (that is, the end of compulsory education). Then, if you choose to go to a gymnasium and not to some technical or crafts school, you'll have music for another four years (one lesson a week)... together with a whole lot of other subjects.
> 
> P.S. Isle of Arran? But that's Ireland, isn't it?


Compulsory education in Britain ends at 16. From 14 to 16 there are some options, and a few subjects are compulsory; Music isn't. Children often opt for Music for the wrong reasons, and find it tough.
Perhaps musical education deserves a thread here of its own?
The Aran islands are indeed Irish; Arran is off Scotland, although on a clear day we can see Ireland from the south end of the island.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Frasier said:


> What seems outrageous - and probably good that works weren't analysed (so you haven't wasted what must be precious time) - the composers you mention didn't have any "vast musical influence" except Sibelius.


All right, I sometimes exaggerate - so vast probably wasn't the right word. I believe the problem lies in the fact that many great composers weren't mainstream, so they are kind of desolate, away from the leading musical styles - Sibelius included. I mean, in my book he is the only one of those I sampled that hasn't been _mentioned_ at all.

But hey - Britten conservative? I wouldn't say so.



> I think you need to look elsewhere - Beethoven, Liszt, Debussy....


Oh, I daresay I have looked... and with most pleasant results!


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Mark Harwood said:


> The Aran islands are indeed Irish; Arran is off Scotland, although on a clear day we can see Ireland from the south end of the island.


Sorry, the 'r' makes the difference. Usually I'm pretty good at geography...


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