# New to Opera



## Cypress (Dec 19, 2014)

Buongiorno,

I only seriously started learning about opera this year. It all started when I began to learn Italian language and have been exploring Italian Culture the last three years. Yes, I am planning to travel to Sicily next May 

After food, wine, language, some literature, I am now on to understanding Opera. I started by loan from my public library a series of programs by Dr. Robert Greenberg. They are sets of DVD's for home study. They are long, complex and explain a lot of what opera is all about. I am right now watching the Operas of Mozart Part I. I ordered Part II and Part III. Is anyone familiar with his publications? I watched most of How to Listen to and Understand Opera series. 

I also found about about Met simulcasts to my local theater. What other way is there to start and continue learning? It's such an enormous genre, I have limited ability in my area to find people to talk with and see a live opera. 

For an amateur like myself, where would you advise starting? I have several CD's of Cecilia Bartoli singing Italian songs and some arias. But, how do I build a decent DVD library with libretto in original language and English too? 

Having fun, glad I found this forum and looking forward to chatting with folks.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Take your time and brows true the Opera topic, there are plenty of tips in that topic.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi Cypress

Although the field of opera is subject to much intellectual debating, here and elsewhere, the best thing about it is the sheer pleasure derived from a great voice and a great aria (who cares what he/she is singing about!)

Becoming familiar with legendary and current singers and the most-loved arias is a fantastic time for a new opera fan. You can obtain very good digital compilations from Amazon which also give an introduction to singers.

I'd advise against investing in a DVD collection, as many are not of such technical quality that you'd want to watch them again. Finding a lending source or viewing on-line would be more cost effective.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Cypress said:


> Buongiorno,
> 
> I only seriously started learning about opera this year. It all started when I began to learn Italian language and have been exploring Italian Culture the last three years. Yes, I am planning to travel to Sicily next May
> 
> ...


You're right - opera is a huge genre and CDs/DVDs are expensive. There are lots of complete operas on YouTube and it's a great way to watch and listen for free.

Many opera CDs come with a booklet which will have history, synopsis and full libretto. Using that well known mail order site, include the words 'box set' in your search and, in theory, you should get a selection of CDs with the full booklet.

It's very difficult to suggest operas to a new fan as everyone is different but as you're studying Italian, I'll suggest these operas by Italian composers which do contain the libretto booklet. But do check out YouTube before you buy. And good luck with your opera journey.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Here are 15 starters to whet your whistle. Go slow and enjoy both CD's and DVD's (even better):
La Boheme (Puccini)
Madama Butterfly (Puccini)
Tosca (Puccini)
Carmen (Bizet)- especially DVD
Turandot (Puccini) - especially DVD
Aida (Verdi) - especially DVD
Otello (Verdi) 
Don Carlo (Verdi) - especially DVD
La Traviata (Verdi)
Eugene Onegin (Tchaikovsky) - especially DVD
Rigoletto (Verdi) 
Lucia di Lammermoor (Donizetti)
Il trovatore (Verdi)
Andrea Chenier (Giordano)
Lohengrin (Wagner)


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

As already said.
Go to youtube.
Also listen on opera broadcasts on radio and watch on TV.
Go to your local library/libraries.
If you find an opera you want to see or listen to anytime you want buy the cd or dvd.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

if you watch operas on DVDs make sure you get productions that actually do what the composer intended rather than some fat headed producer's ego trip!


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## Cypress (Dec 19, 2014)

DavidA said:


> if you watch operas on DVDs make sure you get productions that actually do what the composer intended rather than some fat headed producer's ego trip!


Thanks for the replies! I selected Cecilia Bartoli as a focus of listening. I picked up her CD Mozart Arias and fell in love with the arias from Lucio Silla. I will try to find this one thru library loan. I am mesmerized by the composition and vocals. The duetto D'elisio in sen m'attendi is What encouraged me to keep going with opera. So far, it's the most beàutiful thing I have ever heard.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

DavidA said:


> if you watch operas on DVDs make sure you get productions that actually do what the composer intended rather than some fat headed producer's ego trip!


Yes but if you're new to opera, how do you know which is Regie and which is as the composer/librettist intended?


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Cypress said:


> Buongiorno,
> 
> I only seriously started learning about opera this year. It all started when I began to learn Italian language and have been exploring Italian Culture the last three years. Yes, I am planning to travel to Sicily next May


You might want to be careful about learning the language through opera--natives will detect the Mozart in your accent :lol:

That's wonderful that you've been getting to know about Italian culture and will have the opportunity to travel there. As others have suggested, you may like to save your euros and attend some live performances while you're there; some of our Italian forum members may even be able to make suggestions about performances to attend during your stay.

I myself wouldn't want to be without recordings of Monteverdi's operas, however. L'Orfeo is the most famous, and for good reason--it's an incredibly powerful work. It has a great libretto, too, which I think is well worth reading even without the music.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Learning Italian Is a laudable pursuit but remember that most Italian operas were written some time ago. All language is fluid and changes through time.Also Florentine Italian is what you learn when you take the course, but unfortunately ten miles outside Florence they may speak a dialect that has little relation to what you have learned. A bit like Learning English with received pronunciation then visiting Croydon and expecting to manage.
Good luck ! I am jealous though, I remember when I first started exploring Opera and the sheer joy I experienced. 
I will beg your pardon right now but I have been exploring a bottle of Lacrima Christi and well...Oh Dear!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Your knowledge of Italian must be pretty good after three years. :tiphat: Mine is nearly nonexistent, although it's on my to do list, just as soon as I become competent in French, if that ever happens. 

I find that the frequently poor diction of opera singers is a stumbling block to anyone who wants to understand the words, especially in a language which is not native to them. This won't help you as far as complete recordings are concerned, but there are individual arias recorded way back in the day when many singers still had excellent diction, so much so that even non Italian speakers could distinguish all the words and comprehend any which resemble related words in our own language.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

And let's not forget the non- native speakers of Italian whose diction in that language was also excellent. (Not sure which category Kaschmann belongs in, but never mind.) Let us start with Verdi's own favourite interpreter from the early 1880s (when Maurel sang Amonasro at the Paris premiere of Aïda, conducted by Verdi) onwards:






Next, the Polish bass Edouard de Reszke, who Verdi didn't like as Fiesco because he was too handsome (probably still had some hair left in 1881, lol) and had too beautiful a voice. Go figure.






Next, I've always loved Leon Escalaïs' Italian recordings. (I don't know what Verdi thought about Escalaïs, if he even thought about him at all. He seems to have made little impact in Italy. The Italians' loss!) I couldn't find his 'La mia letizia' from I Lombardi, but if you get the chance to hear it, it's one of the most beautiful records ever. He did it in French also, as 'Je veux encore entendre'. Here he is in 'Guglielmo Tell', with Antonio Magini Coletti and Oreste Luppi:


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## Cypress (Dec 19, 2014)

I just finished watching Part I of Dr Greenberg's Great Courses Learning Series on The Operas of Mozart. He spent 8 hours on _Cosi Fan Tutte_ alone! There's Part II and III I also ordered through interlibrary loan on the way. Unless Dr. Greenberg had pointed it out, I would have had some problem understanding the Italian singing. It's not the best way to learn Italian, but if I get a few words, sono contento. I am satisfied.

Like Alexander said earlier on this thread, I am wowed by the musical compositions and voice. I finally matured enough in life to appreciate what opera is all about, just a beautiful way to tell a story. It's fun to find something new to enjoy and this forum will help alot. I would guess I spend sometime just reading through the threads.

I am going to Sicily in May and will definitely ask in every larger town I am in, about operatic performances locally.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Cypress said:


> I just finished watching Part I of Dr Greenberg's Great Courses Learning Series on The Operas of Mozart. He spent 8 hours on _Cosi Fan Tutte_ alone! There's Part II and III I also ordered through interlibrary loan on the way. Unless Dr. Greenberg had pointed it out, I would have had some problem understanding the Italian singing. It's not the best way to learn Italian, but if I get a few words, sono contento. I am satisfied.
> 
> Like Alexander said earlier on this thread, I am wowed by the musical compositions and voice. I finally matured enough in life to appreciate what opera is all about, just a beautiful way to tell a story. It's fun to find something new to enjoy and this forum will help alot. I would guess I spend sometime just reading through the threads.
> 
> I am going to Sicily in May and will definitely ask in every larger town I am in, about operatic performances locally.


I hope you have a fabulous time in Sicily and hope you manage to see some opera while you're there.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I spend most winters in Malta and usually keep an eye on Sicilian opera possibilities. Sadly they seem to have some program cancellations due to budget cuts.

Teatro Massimo in Palermo has 7 performances of Un Ballo in Mascera in May. I'd certainly want to make this an objective.
http://www.teatromassimo.it/stagione/2015_en.php

I'm very tempted by April's offering of Cavalleria Rusticana... although not at all interested in this Godfather movie stuff.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

What I did when I was beginning to get into opera was to take out a book of about 175 opera synopses and go through them finding the ones that appealed to me the most.


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## spokanedaniel (Dec 23, 2014)

Sloe said:


> As already said.
> Go to youtube....


I never realized there were entire operas on YouTube! I'm kind of new to opera in the sense that I have not listened to or seen many operas, though I've seen a few over the course of the last 20 or 30 years.

So I went to YouTube and decided to listen to something of Verdi. I picked Rigoletto because the name sounds interesting. I picked a performance at random, and was immediately enthralled by the music and the opening scene of him putting on his clown (I later realized jester) costume. Then the singing started and I was struck by two things: The singer was marvelous, the music was enchanting, and the subtitles appeared to be in Dutch. (Clearly a Germanic language, but too many double vowels, I think, to be German.) So while it played I googled "synopsis Rigoletto" and wished I hadn't, and was glad I could not understand the words, because, holy smogballs, Batman, that's a depressing story!!! I listened until the end of the bedroom scene with Rigoletto and his daughter, and then paused it to resume later.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I prefer DVDs so I get English subtitles, otherwise here is my favorite opera (and favorite DVD production of it) in it's entirety, but no subtitles:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

spokanedaniel said:


> I never realized there were entire operas on YouTube! I'm kind of new to opera in the sense that I have not listened to or seen many operas, though I've seen a few over the course of the last 20 or 30 years.
> 
> So I went to YouTube and decided to listen to something of Verdi. I picked Rigoletto because the name sounds interesting. I picked a performance at random, and was immediately enthralled by the music and the opening scene of him putting on his clown (I later realized jester) costume. Then the singing started and I was struck by two things: The singer was marvelous, the music was enchanting, and the subtitles appeared to be in Dutch. (Clearly a Germanic language, but too many double vowels, I think, to be German.) So while it played I googled "synopsis Rigoletto" and wished I hadn't, and was glad I could not understand the words, because, holy smogballs, Batman, that's a depressing story!!! I listened until the end of the bedroom scene with Rigoletto and his daughter, and then paused it to resume later.


Operas are usually depressing!

Here's one with English sub-titles


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

Great to hear you're getting into operas. I'm a beginner in opera with my previous listening experience in non-operatic classical music. When I listen to operas, I listen for both voices and orchestra. It's still kind of new to me - there are multiple dimensions to an opera - different singing style (compared to non-operatic singing), characters, act, stage and story.

I like watching DVD because I can understand the work visually and musically. They also have English subtitles which help.

I recently attended MET broadcast at my local theater. Big screen for $18 (re-run of live broadcast) was a very good experience. I didn't really like the sound system at the theater though; I imagine it's tuned for action movies and such.

I started with Wagner because of my love for Austro-German music but Italian operas offer more options, I think. Just start with famous operas like La Traviata or Carmen. Just follow what you like, either by singer or composer.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Florestan said:


> What I did when I was beginning to get into opera was to take out a book of about 175 opera synopses and go through them finding the ones that appealed to me the most.


This tickled me for some reason. Choosing which operas to check out based on plot. The very thing for which opera is often criticised. Surely Il Trovatore was a must see when you read the synopsis .

I'll check out any opera based on Shakespeare or other classic plays.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Alexander said:


> This tickled me for some reason. Choosing which operas to check out based on plot. The very thing for which opera is often criticised. Surely Il Trovatore was a must see when you read the synopsis .
> 
> I'll check out any opera based on Shakespeare or other classic plays.


A friend and opera virgin studied _Le roi s'amuse_ at school and without knowing this, the first opera I took her to see was _Rigoletto_ ...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Alexander said:


> This tickled me for some reason. Choosing which operas to check out based on plot. The very thing for which opera is often criticised. Surely Il Trovatore was a must see when you read the synopsis .
> 
> I'll check out any opera based on Shakespeare or other classic plays.


I was looking for operas that did not include overtly immoral activity or murder/suicide/death, and which have a happy ending. In that vein, I am pleased to have collected the following operas:

Fidelio
La Cenerentola
La Sonnambula
La Fille du Regiment
Martha
La Serva Padrona
Meistersinger (my only objection was the mob scene with a beating of the underdog in this opera).

William Tell is likely my next opera if I get that far, but I am finding it hard to devote time to viewing the DVDs I already have and still need to view the second disc of Meistersinger.


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## Speranza (Nov 22, 2014)

Florestan said:


> I was looking for operas that did not include overtly immoral activity or murder/suicide/death, and which have a happy ending.


The not overtly immoral bit makes it difficult (as if it's not hard enough with no death) but try
Barber of Seville - Rossini
Cendrillon - Massenet
L'elisir D'amore - donizetti


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Joining a forum is always a good move for a new fan of something.

As I've noticed, opera-specific forums are hard to come by, so by searching around for multiple sites will further broaden your knowledge. I'm not a total opera fan, but I go through phases, and I find that I end up joining more than one site to get the most out of my opera binges, like here. however, Wikipedia and reading Amazon reviews of recordings is a great thing to do as well to learn via the Internet.

Talk classical is filled with great people willing to help out, so we welcome you warmly! 

[i hope this is not in violation of anything in the ToS, try to view is as more my observation and my own approach to discovering opera than soliciting traffic to other sites]


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^
Thanks for the link, COAG! Schigolch's posts on the Lulu thread are excellent! Sounds like I need to hear Christine Schafer sing.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Speranza said:


> The not overtly immoral bit makes it difficult (as if it's not hard enough with no death) but try
> Barber of Seville - Rossini
> Cendrillon - Massenet
> L'elisir D'amore - donizetti


I forgot to mention I also was avoiding magic, which is why Rossini's La Cenerentola fits but Cendrillon does not.

The other two did not sufficiently interest me, but certainly I could reconsider them.


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## Speranza (Nov 22, 2014)

Florestan said:


> The other two did not sufficiently interest me, but certainly I could reconsider them.


You would know your own taste better then me that's for sure. Though if you do like Rossini's other works you might want to try the Barber of Seville.

It's up to you, I was just floating ideas


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

I wish I could tell people who are ambivalent about opera, that to keep trying until they find *voices* they like. Because honestly, there is way too much bad singing out there, especially today. Youtube is great. You can sample so much stuff on there. Eventually you will find a "gateway voice" (a singer who gets you really interested) and that will lead to so much more!

(Although, my problem was that the "gateway voices" I discovered - Moffo, Gruberova, Zancanaro - are all from decades ago!! It took a while for me to find current singers that I like, and -- as usual -- they seem to be the less well-known ones. Oh well.)


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

Welcome! I'd give you tips, but this is your journey. Enjoy it!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

graziesignore said:


> I wish I could tell people who are ambivalent about opera, that to keep trying until they find *voices* they like. Because honestly, there is way too much bad singing out there, especially today. Youtube is great. You can sample so much stuff on there. Eventually you will find a "gateway voice" (a singer who gets you really interested) and that will lead to so much more!
> 
> (Although, my problem was that the "gateway voices" I discovered - Moffo, Gruberova, Zancanaro - are all from decades ago!! It took a while for me to find current singers that I like, and -- as usual -- they seem to be the less well-known ones. Oh well.)


José Carreras was my 'gateway voice' and sadly I was just too late to see him perform on stage.

It doesn't matter that your favourite singers aren't well known. You'll have the excitement of watching their progress and watching them develop into world class singers.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2015)

Three tips:

1. There is far more to opera than Italian opera.
2. There is far more to Italian music than opera.
3. As always, have fun!!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Sometimes the gateway can come in the most unexpected form. Many years ago, a friend of mine was persuaded (I don't remember how) to go with me to a performance of _Gotterdammerung_ and he fell in love with it, so much so that he persuaded me to go to Seattle with him to see a complete _Ring _cycle in one week. Of all the operas that I might have thought would spark his interest, 4.5 hours of the _Ring_ would never have entered my mind!


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Wow! That is... pretty improbable! Kudos to your friend.


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