# Brahms: Symphony #3 in F, op. 90



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Brahms' third symphony is currently on the fifth tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works. Only two symphonies--Beethoven's ninth and Brahms' fourth--are above it.

As usual for a work of this stature, Wikipedia has a nice article about it, including a little analysis that amounts to a bit of a listening guide. The best source for recording recommendations is probably Trout's blog post on this work:



> Condensed Listing:
> 1.	Walter (cond.), Columbia Symphony Orchestra	(1960)
> 2.	Szell (cond.), Cleveland Orchestra	(1964)
> 3.	Klemperer (cond.), Philharmonia Orchestra	(1957)
> ...


Anyway, as usual, the main questions are: *Do you like this work? Do you love it? Why? What do you like about it? Do you have any reservations about it?*

And of course, what are your favorite recordings?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

3 is probably my favourite Brahms symphony. I will have to think about why I like it so much. If I think anything remotely interesting I will post it. 

It may also be the most difficult to get right ... or at least there are a good few duds from usually good conductors. The list of best recordings has some good ones but misses many as well! It also (inevitably) has a couple that I don't especially warm to.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Oh boy, a work as close to my heart as any. One of the first symphonies I grew to love as a young lad. The famous Poco Allegretto is the most immediately appealing movement - perhaps in the whole of Brahms’ output - but the whole symphony is sheer delight. 

I’ll never forget hearing Abbado and the BPO at Carnegie Hall in 1996. The warmth of those Berlin strings. Indeed Abbado’s is my favorite version in modern sound. But I revere Furtwängler as the ultimate interpreter of this great work, followed by the leaner approach of Weingartner. Cantelli and Kempe are two vintage recordings that hold up quite well.

My favorites, in order:

Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954) (DG, Music & Arts)
​​Wilhelm Furtwängler (1949) (EMI)
​Felix Weingartner (EMI)
​Guido Cantelli (EMI, Testament)
​Rudolf Kempe (Testament)
​Claudio Abbado (1989) (DG)
​Eugen Jochum (EMI)
​Sir John Barbirolli (1967) (Royal)
​Sir John Barbirolli (1952) (Barbirolli Society)
​Clemens Krauss (Preiser, Biddulph)
​Bruno Walter (1936) (Koch, Andante)
​Jascha Horenstein (Vox)
​Herbert von Karajan (Decca)
​George Szell (Decca)
​Arturo Toscanini (Testament)
​Arturo Toscanini (Music & Arts)
​Eugen Jochum (DG)
​Sergei Koussevitzky (Pearl)
​Bruno Walter (1960) (Sony)
​Leopold Stokowski (1928) (Biddulph)
​Otto Klemperer (EMI)
​Marin Alsop (Naxos)
​Willem Mengelberg (Naxos, Andante)
​Fritz Reiner (RCA)
​Eduard van Beinum (Dante)
​Herbert von Karajan (1978) (DG)
​George Szell (Sony)
​Stanislaw Skrowaczewski (IMP)
​Istvan Kertesz (Decca)


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

It's not my favorite Brahms symphony, but I don't dislike it. It's certainly the most concise (kind of like the Brahms equivalent of Beethoven's Opus 95 string quartet). Karajan for some reason recorded it four times. My favorite is his first with the BPO (second overall) from the mid-1960's, which has a sharp incisiveness equalled by few (but that's my personal preference for how it should go).


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Didn't some famous music critic say that it was basically a matter of fact (or general consensus, or something like this) that this is the best symphony ever? Who was that?

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Wonderful piece! Karajan is a good intepreter.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I love this symphony. every time I listen I think this is my favourite Brahms (which is dispelled when I listen to another Brahms). Of all Brahms' symphonies, this one sings to me the most. I just listened to Jochum EMI again the other day which was fabulous. A few other favorites off the top of my head:

Abbado/Berlin
Walter/Columbia
Bernstein/ NY
Klemperer/Philharmonia
Jochum/Berlin
and my very first album of it (vinyl of course) Reiner/Chicago. I wore that record out.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

For many years, the Brahms 3rd was my least favorite of the Four Symphonies. Fifteen years ago or so, it inexplicably became my most favorite. The andante or second movement holds a special attraction for me. I sense a combination of fantasy and spirituality there that gives me a wonderfully satisfying feeling. The sense of acceptance and finality in the work's fourth movement is also very special.

My first choice among interpretations is Rudolf Kempe's with the Berlin Philharmonic. Other favorites include Jochum/Berlin Philharmonic (mono), Jochum/London Philharmonic, Klemperer/Philharmonia, Kertesz/Vienna Philharmonic, Reiner/Chicago Symphony and Solti/Chicago Symphony.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The Brahms Third. Indeed a great work. Perhaps the most "refreshing" of the four Brahms symphonies. One I've heard dozens of times and always enjoy. Steinberg and the Pittsburgh SO do it justice.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> The Brahms Third. Indeed a great work. Perhaps the most "refreshing" of the four Brahms symphonies. One I've heard dozens of times and always enjoy. Steinberg and the Pittsburgh SO do it justice.


Isn't that the CD coupled with the fabulous Milstein Brahms violin concerto?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The Cinderella of Brahms's symphonies. Captivated by the drama of the first, the warm geniality of the second, and the tragic nobility of the fourth, people often don't see its beauty at first. At some point the enigma of it exerts a fascination that makes us wonder if it isn't the best of them all.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

It is certainly the least showy of the four ... which might make it the most Brahmsian.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Devil of a thing to play. That first movement is fiendishly difficult with all the typical Brahmsian rhythmic offsets. And getting the tempo just right eludes so many conductors. I prefer a smaller orchestra for this symphony - Mackerras on Telarc is just fine. With a large orchestra the wonderful inner details get lost.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> Devil of a thing to play. That first movement is fiendishly difficult with all the typical Brahmsian rhythmic offsets. And getting the tempo just right eludes so many conductors. I prefer a smaller orchestra for this symphony - Mackerras on Telarc is just fine. With a large orchestra the wonderful inner details get lost.


Correct!! Brahms #3 is the toughest Brahms symphony tho play and conduct...mvt I is a great challenge....tempo is crucial, hard to maintain, and all of the eighth note groups starting "off the beat" make rhythmic accuracy difficult...
last mvt is tough as well....hitting the climaxes in the right place, not "shooting your wad" too early is a challenge...many just miss it....most difficult Brahms symphony to play....I don't know if any completely satisfying recording...some favorites:
ReinerCSO
Toscanini/NBC 
Szell/CO
Solti, Walter/ColSO
oldie but goodie-
Stock/CSO [1940, IIRC]

best live performance I've heard was Skrowacewski [sp??] conducting Philadelphia at Saratoga Performing Arts Center, back in late 60s...marvelous, they had it all....


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

Love, love Brahms' third. I had such a joy listening to it when I first discovered it a few years back. It's been a while since I last listened to it though, so perhaps this the perfect excuse for me to enjoy it once more. 

Recording:
Solti/Chicago


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## Kollwitz (Jun 10, 2018)

It's a wonderful symphony, I especially love the melodies and rhythms in the final movement.

I really like Giulini's 1990 VPO recording. As with his other Vienna recordings from the period, it sounds magnificent, but also maintains momentum more than his recording of the fourth.

Also enjoy Mackerras with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Furtwangler and Haitink with the Concertgebouw.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

science said:


> Brahms' third symphony is currently on the fifth tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works. Only two symphonies--Beethoven's ninth and Brahms' fourth--are above it.
> 
> As usual for a work of this stature, Wikipedia has a nice article about it, including a little analysis that amounts to a bit of a listening guide. The best source for recording recommendations is probably Trout's blog post on this work:
> 
> ...


I love it. Coincidence or not, I was listening to this symphony yesterday night, what I didn't do since at least one year ago. It gave me the chills, it's a wonderful piece of music in my opinion. I listened on youtube to the Karajan performance of 1964.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

One of my favourire symphonies. Sanderling (Dresden), Levine/CSO (incredible performance), Walter, Harnoncourt, Karajan, Nowak, Klemperer, Skrowaczewski, Dohnanyi, Szell, Gielen, Jochum, Klemperer, Abbado, Ticciati, Nelsons, Solti, Tocanini and Van Zweden all knock this one out of the ballpark. So many great Brahms cycles....so little time.

Edit: I tend to start my Brahms cycle listening with the 3rd. I often find that those that do a poor or average 3rd mess the others up too. This may just be me, tho. Same reason i start my Beethoven cycle reviews with the 7th.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> At some point the enigma of [the Third] exerts a fascination...


That word, "enigma", tends to stick in my mind especially when I'm listening to the andante. While I appreciate its beguiling quality, I sometimes wish I knew what thoughts or images were swimming in Brahms' head while he was in the process of crafting some of those second movement melodies. Then again, would I really want to risk spoiling my pleasurable impressions?


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

The only greater symphony is Brahms' own fourth. My favorite movement is the finale, which is also my favorite finale from Brahms' symphonies.








Haydn67 said:


> That word, "enigma", tends to stick in my mind especially when I'm listening to the andante. While I appreciate its beguiling quality, I sometimes wish I knew what thoughts or images were swimming in Brahms' head while he was in the process of crafting some of those second movement melodies. Then again, would I really want to risk spoiling my pleasurable impressions?


It seems to me to tell of lost love, especially at that climactic moment near the end of the movement. Brahms had recently turned fifty when he composed it and was perhaps looking back at his life and imagining the life he never had nor ever would have. Please listen to it and tell me if this makes any sense.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't like it quite as much as 2 or 4, but it would still make my top 10-15 favorite symphonies. I like Klemperer's Brahms, but I think there are a lot of good versions of this symphony out there.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The wonderfully melodic and lyrical 3rd is my favorite after first hearing it in my early teens. It's amazing how the mind works on the basis of its associations: I heard it while reading a biography of the tragic Christie Mathewson and ever since then I'm often reminded of him and baseball when its played—one of the fond memories of my youth when just about anything with strong enough emotions can become associated with just about anything else. I'm still reminded of his successes and tragic life (he was gassed during the First World war which shortened his life) after all these years.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Merl said:


> One of my favourire symphonies. Sanderling (Dresden), Levine/CSO (incredible performance), Walter, Harnoncourt, Karajan, Nowak, Klemperer, Skrowaczewski, Dohnanyi, Szell, Gielen, Jochum, Klemperer, Abbado, Ticciati, Nelsons, Solti, Tocanini and Van Zweden all knock this one out of the ballpark. So many great Brahms cycles....so little time.


That's a list of recommended recordings that ticks many boxes for me. It only misses Kempe and, perhaps, Celibidache.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Improbus said:


> It seems to me to tell of lost love, especially at that climactic moment near the end of the movement. Brahms had recently turned fifty when he composed it and was perhaps looking back at his life and imagining the life he never had nor ever would have. Please listen to it and tell me if this makes any sense.


While instances of "lost love" in Brahms' life are fairly frequently encountered in reading books and articles about him, they don't really enter my mind while listening to his music. My visualizations are mainly of nature. I can relate, in part, to Clara Schumann's reference to "a forest idyll" in her description of the second movement andante, though without her inclusion of "...worshippers round a little woodland chapel..."


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

The beginning theme of Brahms 3rd symphony is probably one of my favorite melodies ever written. I love all of his symphonies. Tough for me to pick a real favorite because as soon as I listen to one, that one is my favorite until I listen to one of his others then that one becomes my favorite.

I also agree with Enthusiast that I think symphony 3 is the hardest to truly pull off.

For recordings:
Levine/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Walter/Columbia Symphony
Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra
Sanderling/Staatskapelle Dresden
Wand/NDR Symphony Orchestra
Abbado/Berlin Philharmonic

All top tier but there are plenty of other great ones from Karajan, Solti, Jochum, Szell and Dohnanyi.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

tdc said:


> I like Klemperer's Brahms, but I think there are a lot of good versions of this symphony out there.


I agree, but of all the Brahms Symphony sets I have ever listened to, I consider Klemperer's with the Phiharmonia Orchestra to be about the only one in which a conductor hits a home run for interpretation of all four symphonies. I think the sets by Kertesz/Vienna Phiharmonic, Weingartner with the London Symphony and London Phiharmonic and Jochum/Berlin Philharmonic all come close in varying degrees. The last two mentioned were recorded in monophonic sound.

Also meant to include Van Beinum's with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra, with Nos. 1 and 4 in stereo; 2 and 3 in mono.


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

I have the recording with the Berlin Philharmonic and Simon Rattle conducting. The only other recording of the Brahms Symphony No. 3 I can recall hearing is the Berlin Philharmonic and Claudio Abbado, and I prefer the Rattle recording.

I am always amazed at the long lists of recordings of the same works that many members of this forum have not only heard but also own.

Rocky


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

RockyIII said:


> I am always amazed at the long lists of recordings of the same works that many members of this forum have not only heard but also own.
> 
> Rocky


There are many loonies like me who collect Brahms cycles. It's not as obsessive as my Beethoven cycle collecting but I still have well over 60. Not counted them for a long time (there are many, many more).


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

RockyIII said:


> I have the recording with the Berlin Philharmonic and Simon Rattle conducting. The only other recording of the Brahms Symphony No. 3 I can recall hearing is the Berlin Philharmonic and Claudio Abbado, and I prefer the Rattle recording.
> 
> I am always amazed at the long lists of recordings of the same works that many members of this forum have not only heard but also own.
> 
> Rocky


For some of us the differing interpretations of the works of composers such as Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler and Wagner is an ongoing fascination/obsession. I think it also depends on the composer. There are only so many different ways one can perform Mozart or Haydn. But the Romantics by their nature lend themselves to an endless array of interpretation.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I've taken this occasion to reacquaint myself with the many recordings I own of this wonderful work.

Furtwangler and Weingartner are still for me on a different interpretive level than the rest, even though they are quite different. I am reminded of the beauty of sound achieved by Abbado, Jochum, Cantelli, and Kempe. Walter is very spirited in the outer movements. Klemperer is very lush sounding if a bit wanting in momentum and flexibility.

But the big shock was Reiner. I had forgotten how beautiful this recording is! I tend to think of Reiner as clinical - and it is true he is very detailed - but the results here are very satisfying. Only a slight lack of excitement in the final movement. I will have to reaquaint myself with his RPO 4th, a favorite recording of mine from back in the day.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

My favourite Brahms Symphony with probably too many good ones to remember but ones that regularly come down from the shelves are:
Klemperer, Abbado, the first two I owned also Walter (NY), Kempe, various Furtwangler, Harnoncourt, Levine whose recording with Sofie von Otters Alto Rhapsody makes for a special disc and for a slight sideways take on the symphony I love Berglund's chamber scale performance (slightly more than Ticciati who I think looks for little details too much). Finally one I know its not cool to like - Giulini's late meander through the score with the Vienna PO, at first I thought it perverse but it's grown on me!


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I have just listened to three recordings from my shelves of the Symphony, two I listed in my preferred recordings - Levine and Kempe along with Celibidache's Munich recording.
Listening to three recordings on the roll so to speak allowed me to reach a conclusion that really hadn't been too obvious to me before. 
Two of the recordings, Kempe & Celibidache omit the first movement repeat which for me unbalances the Symphony. I much preferred Levine.
Checking timings of two stalwart recordings of yesteryear I note that both Furtwangler and Klemperer appear to include the repeat so it presumably isn't down to an older performance tradition but purely a conductors preference. 

Funny how when you haven't played recordings for a while memory of detail can elude you, or at least it does me!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> But the big shock was Reiner. I had forgotten how beautiful this recording is! I tend to think of Reiner as clinical - and it is true he is very detailed - but the results here are very satisfying. Only a slight lack of excitement in the final movement. I will have to reaquaint myself with his RPO 4th, a favorite recording of mine from back in the day.


Reiner's is probably my favorite recording, tho I've not yet heard a totally satisfying recording of this challenging work...
Reiner delivers well on the finale, I think, and he doesn't "shoot his wad" too early - the recap of the 2nd theme is thrilling, with a tremendous sonority...
Walter/ColSO and Szell are also very good - Walter gets a huge crescendo from his trombones in the 2nd theme, so does Szell, but then they don't get the dynamic back down to soft....this spoils the grand buildup that Reiner brings off so well...Szell and Walter are still very good - so are Solti and Levine....
Of special interest to me are all of the lovely clarinet/bassoon passages throughout this work - esp mvts I and II - the 2nd theme of mvt I is Clarinet solo, with bassoons - lovely writing, and each time it appears, Brahms changes the accompaniment ever so much....same with the 2nd mvt....this is such delicious music to play....like Beethoven 2, 4, or 6....
The woodwind writing in Brahms 3 is quite glorious throughout, and challenging to play well.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

So after relistening to recordings the last few days, I will offer my own Top 10 essential recordings for this piece:

1. Furtwängler, 1954










2. Weingartner, 1938










3. Cantelli, 1955










4. Abbado, 1989










5. Kempe, 1960


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

6. Jochum, 1976










7. Reiner, 1957










8. Walter, 1960










9. Karajan , 1960










10. Klemperer, 1957


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I think it most interesting that Brahms took the main, opening theme of mvt I from Schumann....Schumann used it at least twice. in Sym #1, and again in Sym #3.....


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> But the big shock was Reiner. I had forgotten how beautiful this recording is! ..... I will have to reaquaint myself with his RPO 4th, a favorite recording of mine from back in the day.


Yes, for sure - Reiner's Brahms 4 with RoyPO is one of the the greatest ever - rivaled only by Toscanini/NBC ['51]....one of those performances that just "builds" as it goes along - tremendous power in the finale...Kleiber is good, but he doesn't match up with AT and FR....
also - check out Reiner's Brahms #2 with NYPO - live from 3/60 - thrilling - full throttle stuff....Tragic Overture with CSO - Reiner was a great Brahms conductor.......


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2019)

a symphony with a few memorable tunes, but obviously inferior to the 4th and the 1st; i would go for the jansons and nelsons versions; karajan's take is ok as well;


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

science said:


> Brahms' third symphony is currently on the fifth tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works. *Only two symphonies--Beethoven's ninth and Brahms' fourth--are above it*.





marc bollansee said:


> a symphony with a few memorable tunes, but *obviously inferior to the 4th and the 1st*; i would go for the jansons and nelsons versions; karajan's take is ok as well;


Obviously :lol:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

realdealblues said:


> Tough for me to pick a real favorite because as soon as I listen to one, that one is my favorite until I listen to one of his others then that one becomes my favorite.


I know that feeling very well!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

My favorite recordings are Karajan 60s, Klemperer, and Abbado. 

What do you suppose I might need to hear to really give me a fresh impression?


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

^^^^at this moment I am listening to Sanderling and the Staatskapelle Dresden. I also recently found myself with the Skrowaczeski (Oehms Classic) recording and the Bruno Walter mentioned above. Along with Mackerras and the SCO (Telarc) I feel I now have access to a range of interpretations that all display slightly differing insights into what has become one of my favourite symphonies.I now rarely listen to either Abbado (BPO)or Harnoncourt (again the BPO and oddly disappointing!)

I stay away from HvK.....Years ago I had the BPO recordings on vinyl and to these ears I was left with the impression of an impenetrable noise (each to his own of course)
I also know that Giulini and the VPO (DG) left me with a similar lack of enthusiasm for the 2nd so I have little interest in giving them the opportunity to spoil my impression of the 3rd.

The second movement is rapidly becoming one of my favourite passages in Brahms' entire oeuvre, as I pointed out in another post I find it oddly beautiful and enigmatic, it feels as if it is not moving, as if time stands still, and after it finishes the themes seem to have disappeared......

on reflection.....I would recommend Sanderling and Skrowaczeski as alternatives (and Mackerras)......

but then again I have still not heard Gardiner!


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

.....after repeated listens to the 3rd movement I have just realised it has a similar effect to Sibelius' Valse Triste......a nostalgic longing for something and not even sure what it is!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm currently listening to Steinberg and Pittsburgh (I have a new set in the car nearly every fortnight). Like his Beethoven, Steinberg is a class act in this repertoire. It's a very good cycle, aided by great 'live' acoustics (which give these near 60-year old performances a very fresh feel. The only performance that doesn't convince me is the 3rd, which I find a little flat. The 2nd and 4th are terrific accounts. Like you, Jim, Sanderling, Scrowaczewski, Levine and Walter are my current favourites (but they have been for years so I suppose they're my permanent faves) but there are so many excellent Brahms sets that I always feel utterly spoilt for choice.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Such a great thread - reminds me of why I come back to this place.

On topic - it's the Furtwangler version that pulled me into this. My first exposure was the Gardiner version, which I don't care for at all.


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

It is my favorite Brahms symphony and one of my top 5 of all time, no question.


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## ccar (Mar 3, 2017)

*Abendroth*

I may have missed a mention of Hermann Abendroth in this thread. Abendroth conducted the first recording of Brahms Fourth Symphony with the London Symphony in 1927 and he also left us several other recordings of the Brahms symphonies, including 4 interpretations of the Third - Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra 1951, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra 1951, Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra 1952 and Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956. Personally, I always cherished the "expressionist" artistry of Abendroth and I believe his Brahms readings will not pale in comparison with some of the best of his generation, like W. Furtwangler or Bruno Walter.

Brahms Third - Abendroth - Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Admiral said:


> Such a great thread - reminds me of why I come back to this place.
> 
> On topic - it's the Furtwangler version that pulled me into this. My first exposure was the Gardiner version, which I don't care for at all.


....just ordered a relatively cheap 2nd hand copy of the Gardiner for yet another take on this marvellous symphony-not too optimistic however having just read this post.

Forgot to mention two Chicago cycles that contain impressive 3rds-Levine and Barenboim.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

jim prideaux said:


> The second movement [of the Third] is rapidly becoming one of my favourite passages in Brahms' entire oeuvre, as I pointed out in another post I find it oddly beautiful and enigmatic, it feels as if it is not moving, as if time stands still, and after it finishes the themes seem to have disappeared....


My feelings exactly


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Haydn67 said:


> I agree, but of all the Brahms Symphony sets I have ever listened to, I consider Klemperer's with the Phiharmonia Orchestra to be about the only one in which a conductor hits a home run for interpretation of all four symphonies. I think the sets by Kertesz/Vienna Phiharmonic, Weingartner with the London Symphony and London Phiharmonic and Jochum/Berlin Philharmonic all come close in varying degrees. The last two mentioned were recorded in monophonic sound.
> 
> Also meant to include Van Beinum's with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra, with Nos. 1 and 4 in stereo; 2 and 3 in mono.


I really like the Van Beinum set, especially the 3rd. I should have included it among my Top 10 for this symphony.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Great symphony, in the right hands. Unfortunately I usually feel I hear it on overdrive.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Great symphony, in the right hands. Unfortunately I usually feel I hear it on overdrive.


Though momentum is clearly a significant aspect of this symphony's character, _my_ main focus and sense of pleasure relates to how a conductor deals with its tonal colors, reflections, transparency and beauty. It's as if I'm visualizing a work of art.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

ccar said:


> I may have missed a mention of Hermann Abendroth in this thread. Abendroth conducted the first recording of Brahms Fourth Symphony with the London Symphony in 1927 and he also left us several other recordings of the Brahms symphonies, including 4 interpretations of the Third - Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra 1951, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra 1951, Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra 1952 and Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956. Personally, I always cherished the "expressionist" artistry of Abendroth and I believe his Brahms readings will not pale in comparison with some of the best of his generation, like W. Furtwangler or Bruno Walter.
> 
> Brahms Third - Abendroth - Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956


You may have missed this collection, which includes an Abendroth Brahms Fourth with the Middle German Radio Symphony Orchestra of Leipzig from 1950---a previously unissued broadcast performance. It is my favorite of his Brahms Fourths.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

ccar said:


> I may have missed a mention of Hermann Abendroth in this thread. Abendroth conducted the first recording of Brahms Fourth Symphony with the London Symphony in 1927 and he also left us several other recordings of the Brahms symphonies, including 4 interpretations of the Third - Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra 1951, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra 1951, Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra 1952 and Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956. Personally, I always cherished the "expressionist" artistry of Abendroth and I believe his Brahms readings will not pale in comparison with some of the best of his generation, like W. Furtwangler or Bruno Walter.
> 
> Brahms Third - Abendroth - Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra 1956


Wow, what a performance! You definitely get the romantic angst, even in the slow movements.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> The Brahms Third. Indeed a great work. Perhaps the most "refreshing" of the four Brahms symphonies. One I've heard dozens of times and always enjoy. Steinberg and the Pittsburgh SO do it justice.





Brahmsianhorn said:


> Isn't that the CD coupled with the fabulous Milstein Brahms violin concerto?


My original introduction to the symphony came by way of the Steinberg/PSO Brahms Symphonies vinyl box set (Command ‎- CC 14001SD) which I acquired in the early '70s and still have (and still play!) in my collection. It's a stunning set, both recording-wise and interpretively.









I have since acquired the same symphonies set on CD (Memories Reverence ‎- MR2249/2250), pressed in Japan:









The Milstein Concerto I acquired on an EMI disc (EMI Classics ‎- 7243 5 67584 2 1) coupling the Beethoven and Brahms concerti.









All music here Recommended ... with a capital R!


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Listened to three of the Abendroths today. The 1952 Leipzig was good but a little wayward. 1956 Berlin RSO linked above was better.

This 1951 Prague version was the best of the bunch, one of the best I have ever heard:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

And here now is another version to add, Bohm's 1953 VPO. This is one of the best I have ever heard. Full of energy in the fast movements as well as great eloquence in the slower movements, not to mention great playing from the VPO. If you are looking for a version in modern sound, I still give the nod to Abbado/BPO, but this is not far behind.


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## inti (Apr 19, 2020)

civ 4 made me it love it lol


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

My favourite of the Brahms symphonies, by quite a distance as it happens, and my favourite movement is the first, whose ebb and flow grabbed me from the first time I heard it as a youngster.

As far as recordings are concerned, when I was younger I had one on Heliodor with Maazel conducting the Berlin Phil, which I loved then but which came to feel a touch clinical as time went on. Next came Bernstein and the NYPO, which I liked (though it seemed to me to suffer from an oddly boxy recording ambience), and then Klemperer with the Philharmonia, which has been my go-to for many years now and still is.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

For a lot of composers it's how they say things. For Brahms, it's what he actually says. We can be so captivated by an ingenious fireworks display of composition but miss the true message stated clearly.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

All of the Brahms symphonies hold equal affection in my heart, but if forced at gunpoint to say which was my favorite, I just might have to say this one. Gorgeous tunes, concise construction, and high drama. I especially love the Andante, I think that might be one of my all-time favorite melodies. And though some people find the ending of the finale anticlimactic, in the best performances I find it moving and perfectly satisfying after all the tension that we have just heard. I have yet to hear a recording that nails the symphony more convincingly than Kempe. He avoids sentimentality like so many others while providing plenty of energy and lyricism in perfect balance. Walter, Abbado, Klemperer, and Jochum are also top-shelf.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

inti said:


> civ 4 made me it love it lol


I still think of conquering other nations when I hear the slow movement of Beethoven's 5th. It's a pity that they didn't stick with the classical music theme in later installations.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I listen to the Brahms symphonies a couple times a year. I have four cycles but I usually listen to Solti/CSO or Sanderling/Dresden. I have that weird Bernstein DG 3rd but there are some better performances of the other material in that set. I also have Sawallisch on Decca which nobody mentions but it's a decent cycle.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Easter Oratorio
Good stuff


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Itullian said:


> Easter Oratorio
> Good stuff


Wrong thread.......


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> All of the Brahms symphonies hold equal affection in my heart, but if forced at gunpoint to say which was my favorite, I just might have to say this one. Gorgeous tunes, concise construction, and high drama. I especially love the Andante.....I have yet to hear a recording that nails the symphony more convincingly than Kempe.....Walter, Klemperer, and Jochum are also top-shelf.


DITTO!.....DITTO!.....and DITTO!:cheers:


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I see most mentions of Walter with the "Columbia Symphony Orchestra" which I think was really the NYPO (?) but I have kept to the labeled NYPO performances and find them to be my favorite cycle, especially 3, even though I was conditioned to believe that Szell/Cleveland was a religious event not to be questioned (it still sort of is for the playing, but maybe not the conducting).









The third does not play itself and is one of the pieces I've heard fail miserably in concert, Adam Fisher and the Chicago Symphony, this conductor really couldn't get a grip on it and it was not good.

I have some old (I think older than referenced yet) recordings by Abendroth, I'll have to look that up. Also need to rehear the Reiner 3rd, agree with some above that his RPO/4th is a great, great recording, unbelievable playing, especially the clarinet.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

^I believe the Columbia SO was actually the Los Angeles Philharmonic?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mparta said:


> I see most mentions of Walter with the "Columbia Symphony Orchestra" which I think was really the NYPO (?) but I have kept to the labeled NYPO performances and find them to be my favorite cycle, especially 3, even though I was conditioned to believe that Szell/Cleveland was a religious event not to be questioned.


Walter made many recordings with the [west coast] ColumbiaSO which was primarily the LAPO, with some LA studio musicians mixed in...he did some recordings with East coast ColSO as well, but mostly with west....Szell is a fine Brahms 3, but I like Reiner a little better....Reiner's Brahms 4 is quite magnificent - top of the heap along with Toscanini/NBC. He also recorded a great live #2 with NYPO in 1960....wonderful, very exciting!!
Brahms 3 is a real challenge for the conductor - esp mvts I and IV...


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Could be, didn't look it up. Should have. Below if Wikipedia is right in general:

The musicians in the orchestra were contracted as needed for individual sessions and consisted of free-lance artists and often members of either the New York Philharmonic or the Los Angeles Philharmonic, depending on whether the recording was being made in Columbia's East Coast or West Coast studios.

For the Brahms, Classical Net says: "Sony has released the latest installment in the Bruno Walter Edition (#3), a ten-CD issue (all available separately). It includes the Brahms Symphonies as recorded in stereo with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (actually the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra with some free lance players around LA) coupled: #1 with ; #2 and #3 ; and #4 with the "Tragic Overture" and Schicksalied [64472]."

Voila, perhaps LA it is.

Central Europeans did like LA! But all bets are Columbia's pocketbook made the decisions.


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

I agree that Walter's two recordings of the 3rd are top tier. He recorded it with the New York Philharmonic in December 1953 and in stereo with the (West Coast) Columbia Symphony Orchestra in Hollywood in 1960. He really scrambled to rerecord almost his entire repertoire when stereo came out in the mid-fifties. In March last year I splurged on the 77 CD Box Set by Sony. It even includes a lovely CD of his rehearsal of the 3rd with the NYP - my wife langes at me for enlarging my ridiculously lange CD collection eben further, but it came just in time for the first lockdown. 
I prefer the NYP recording, it is simply the better orchestra, especially in the tutti parts. However, Columbia is also very good, they had good soloists .


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mparta said:


> Could be, didn't look it up. Should have. Below if Wikipedia is right in general:
> 
> The musicians in the orchestra were contracted as needed for individual sessions and consisted of free-lance artists and often members of either the New York Philharmonic or the Los Angeles Philharmonic, depending on whether the recording was being made in Columbia's East Coast or West Coast studios.
> 
> ...


yes, most of the Walter/ColSO recordings were west coast....Mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven, Mozart....tho the Mozart "Linz" was east coast, iirc...
on several of the rehearsal recordings you can hear Walter address principal musicians by name ie - "Mr Gassmsn, Mr Bloom", etc...which tells you east or west....
the East coast ColSO was noted for its many Stravinsky recordings conducted by the composer...largely NYC free-Lancers, the contractor was the noted NY bassoonist Loren Glickman who appears as the soloist on many/most of these recordings....
on the subject of pickup orchestras- the RCAVictorSO conducted by Stokowski in late 40s, early 50s was largely NYPO, with some NBCSO and free-lancers....mostly NYPO, tho - I've seen the personnel lists...


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## Terrapin (Apr 15, 2011)

Fine work, but I would rank it behind the first and second, tied with the fourth. Was this the first symphony by a major composer to end with a slow movement?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

A passionate work. 10/10. The way the material from the very beginning returns in the end especially reminds me of Classical masses as well.



Terrapin said:


> Was this the first symphony by a major composer to end with a slow movement?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This is my favorite version,


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^I believe the Columbia SO was actually the Los Angeles Philharmonic?


From what I've read, it depends on the coast where the recording took place. I've read that for Walter's stereo Beethoven cycle, 1-8 was the L.A. Phil and 9 was the NYPO.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

jegreenwood said:


> From what I've read, it depends on the coast where the recording took place. I've read that for Walter's stereo Beethoven cycle, 1-8 was the L.A. Phil and 9 was the NYPO.


Most of Walter's ColSO recordings were performed with the West Coast Orchestra.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Terrapin said:


> Fine work, but I would rank it behind the first and second, tied with the fourth. Was this the first symphony by a major composer to end with a slow movement?


Haydn's "Farewell" Symphony's (aka #45) last movement starts off fast, but before halfway through turns quite slow for the remainder.


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