# Wikipage about "Dutch Golden Age" has no music intro



## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Under the culture section(English), it gives painting, architecture, sculpture, literature introductions but no music. Does it mean musical heritage is still being neglected by majority scholars? WTH


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The most famous Dutch composers of the 17th century were

Jan P. Sweelinck (1562–1621) composer and organ player, major force in the development of 17th century organ music
Constantijn Huygens (1596–1687) more famous as a poet, member of the famous chamber of rhetoric De Muiderkring, composed some 800 pieces, most of which got lost, promoted use of the organ during church services

Less famous composers/musicians from this period were

Gerbrand Adriaenszoon Bredero, song writer
Adrianus Valerius (1570–1625), song writer
Jan Jacob van Eyck (1590–1657), composer
Cornelis Schuyt (1557–1616), composer
Joan Albert Ban (1597–1644), composer
Cornelis Padbrué (1592–1670), composer
Joan Schenk (1656-1612+), composer
Karel Hacquart (ca 1640 - ca 1730), composer
François (1609–1667) and Pierre (1619–1680) Hemony (brothers); famous carillon builders


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Pugg said:


> The most famous Dutch composers of the 17th century were
> 
> Jan P. Sweelinck (1562-1621) composer and organ player, major force in the development of 17th century organ music
> Constantijn Huygens (1596-1687) more famous as a poet, member of the famous chamber of rhetoric De Muiderkring, composed some 800 pieces, most of which got lost, promoted use of the organ during church services
> ...


Thanks, I never know most of them, once read about Schenk, the Marin Marais of the lowlands. :tiphat:

Of course I admire the great Sweelinck.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ariasexta said:


> Thanks, I never know most of them, once read about Schenk, the Marin Marais of the lowlands. :tiphat:
> 
> Of course I admire the great Sweelinck.


My pleasure, especially concerning my own country.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Pugg said:


> My pleasure, especially concerning my own country.


I think you have the priority register to help add music introduction to that page. Though wiki is not an authoritative source, it still influence a lot on the general audience.

(I forgot to mention Huygens senior, I never read about him ever composed so many songs, how sad we lost those pieces, he never registered in my memory as a composer.)


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I cannot give "thank/like“ maybe my computer has problems.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I came across an amazing piece of Dutch music quite recently, a keyboard sonata by Constatijn Huygens. It's on a CD which Bob van Asperen made for the museum of musical instruments in Antwerp. If anyone knows how I can hear more of Huygens's music, please let me know because the sonata is something special. 

Asperen has a recording dedicated of Dutch composers in fact, and very good it is too.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> I came across an amazing piece of Dutch music quite recently, a keyboard sonata by Constatijn Huygens. It's on a CD which Bob van Asperen made for the museum of musical instruments in Antwerp. If anyone knows how I can hear more of Huygens's music, please let me know because the sonata is something special.
> 
> Asperen has a recording dedicated of Dutch composers in fact, and very good it is too.


I have read somewhere almost all Huygens music is lost, sorry I cannot recall the source. Your mention of a keyboard sonata by Huygens the senior is interesting. I would like to purchase the disc. Sonata for keyboard is developped by Kuhnau, if Huygens the senior composer such pieces would be a shock for musical historians. I have Bob Van Asperens dutch harpsichord CD, VIVARTE, wonderful rendition.

I will try to search on amazon later.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

The golden Age of western classical music was the 18th century. No doubt.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> The golden Age of western classical music was the 18th century. No doubt.


Myself consider western musical golden Age as starting from 900AD with the birth of Guido of Arezzo and Hildegard Von Bingen untill the addition of industral structure into the grand piano and the death of Beethoven and Mozart.

Just in terms of the length of the period, 18th century only is insufficient. Let alone quality-wise, all music since 900AD untill the end of 18th century is evenly of extreme fineness, but the musical heritage does not continue into 19th century. 19th century music is totally a different sort of industry(not sure if should call it art), some of them are lower than rock and pop.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ariasexta said:


> I cannot give "thank/like" maybe my computer has problems.


That's alright, as long as your happy :tiphat:


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Pugg said:


> That's alright, as long as your happy :tiphat:


My browser is not microsoft, so, may have some problems unexpected. I would like to click some "likes" around.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Ariasexta said:


> *19th century music is totally a different sort of industry(not sure if should call it art), some of them are lower than rock and pop*.


Please elaborate...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ariasexta said:


> My browser is not microsoft, so, may have some problems unexpected. I would like to click some "likes" around.


I know its completely off topic, but check your forum settings


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

SimonNZ said:


> Please elaborate...


Later composers used classical instruments to make noise, their music sound noisy, redandunt, thoughtless.I hate the intense vibratos, high pitch tenors&supranos, also those noisy melodramas done with a massive orchestra. I do not get the point of such music, if to switch for freer style, there are pop and rock, at least rocksters use modern instruments to creat melodies that you can sing and express ideas.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Pugg said:


> I know its completely off topic, but check your forum settings


I just checked and saw the postbit setting as enabled "like" function. Not the settings, I should update the browser instead


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Jacob Van Eyck The Flute's Garden of Delight


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

regenmusic said:


> Jacob Van Eyck The Flute's Garden of Delight


What A legendary man Van Eyck was, blind from birth!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> I came across an amazing piece of Dutch music quite recently, a keyboard sonata by Constatijn Huygens. It's on a CD which Bob van Asperen made for the museum of musical instruments in Antwerp. If anyone knows how I can hear more of Huygens's music, please let me know because the sonata is something special.
> 
> Asperen has a recording dedicated of Dutch composers in fact, and very good it is too.





Ariasexta said:


> I have read somewhere almost all Huygens music is lost, sorry I cannot recall the source. Your mention of a keyboard sonata by Huygens the senior is interesting. I would like to purchase the disc. Sonata for keyboard is developped by Kuhnau, if Huygens the senior composer such pieces would be a shock for musical historians. I have Bob Van Asperens dutch harpsichord CD, VIVARTE, wonderful rendition.
> 
> I will try to search on amazon later.


To get it, you have to email an order to the museum shop and they'll reply telling you how much to send them by bank transfer, it's a pain but it does work and the CD, especially the sonata, is fascinating and well recorded.

http://www.mim.be/the-museum-shop

I too have Asperen's Dutch music CD. I'm a great admirer of Asperen.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> To get it, you have to email an order to the museum shop and they'll reply telling you how much to send them by bank transfer, it's a pain but it does work and the CD, especially the sonata, is fascinating and well recorded.
> 
> http://www.mim.be/the-museum-shop
> 
> I too have Asperen's Dutch music CD. I'm a great admirer of Asperen.


It turns out there was a mistake on the tagging of the rip of the Cd. The piece that I thought was by Heugens was in fact a sequence of pieces by Gregoria Huet, Peeter Cornet, Sybrand von Noort and Charles Guillet! There is a short allamand by Heugens, but not an entire sonata.

Sorry


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> To get it, you have to email an order to the museum shop and they'll reply telling you how much to send them by bank transfer, it's a pain but it does work and the CD, especially the sonata, is fascinating and well recorded.
> 
> http://www.mim.be/the-museum-shop
> 
> I too have Asperen's Dutch music CD. I'm a great admirer of Asperen.


I see the cd, nice repertoir, I had a MET boston cd on Vermeer, they included 30 minutes of modern composition on Vermeer, the rest 30 minutes is harpsichord pieces from Sweelinck. Sigh..


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> It turns out there was a mistake on the tagging of the rip of the Cd. The piece that I thought was by Heugens was in fact a sequence of pieces by Gregoria Huet, Peeter Cornet, Sybrand von Noort and Charles Guillet! There is a short allamand by Heugens, but not an entire sonata.
> 
> Sorry


Van Noordt was on Vivarte cd, a 6 minute sonata, sounds like an organ piece played harpsichord. To my memory, Huygens left no instrumental music, maybe there is a few pieces of songs.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Van Noordt was on Vivarte cd, a 6 minute sonata, sounds like an organ piece played harpsichord. To my memory, Huygens left no instrumental music, maybe there is a few pieces of songs.


This piece here is called "for cimbalo solo" and is indeed 6 minutes or so long. I like it very much. The comment in the booklet says it's taken from a piece called "sonate per il cimbalo approriate ai flauto & violino" first published in Amsterdam in 1702.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> This piece here is called "for cimbalo solo" and is indeed 6 minutes or so long. I like it very much. The comment in the booklet says it's taken from a piece called "sonate per il cimbalo approriate ai flauto & violino" first published in Amsterdam in 1702.


Dutch baroque is evasive except for the Sweelinck The Great.The sonatas counterpoints recall an older style organ piece, even a bit more antiquated than Buxtehudes toccatas. In fact, it does sound like a toccata. This is a very fine piece, brightening up the sparse repertoire of the dutch baroque.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Later composers used classical instruments to make noise, their music sound noisy, redandunt, thoughtless.I hate the intense vibratos, high pitch tenors&supranos, also those noisy melodramas done with a massive orchestra. I do not get the point of such music, if to switch for freer style, there are pop and rock, at least rocksters use modern instruments to creat melodies that you can sing and express ideas.


Which is why the 18th century offered the perfect balance from all that you mentioned.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> Which is why the 18th century offered the perfect balance from all that you mentioned.


I will not even consider to counter-balance those bad later composition with 18th century, in 17th and 18th century composers would burn their own work if the works is substandard or controversial. Just to treat them as what they are, modern music for the crowd, getting off from catalogues of classical music publishers, to be published by modern celebrity/couture fashion companies instead.

My further worry: To treat these modern music as classical will eventually backfire the true classical heritage, result in physical destruction of antiques.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Today I listened to Gustav Leonhardt playing some music by Anthoni von Noordt, on an interesting CD of music played on the Ahrend/Brunzema organ in Amsterdam. Recommended.


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