# Dvorak symphony #9



## pcnog11

Which recording do you think is your choice for Dvorak "New World" symphony?

Mine is Reiner and Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Life must be good in 1950's in Chicago!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Talich 1954 recording on Supraphon. Completely exciting and idiomatic.


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## Phil loves classical

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Talich 1954 recording on Supraphon. Completely exciting and idiomatic.


Feel the same. There is no detailed interpretation like Talich's. Only ones with better sound.


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## SONNET CLV

Cleveland and Szell _From the New World_, still my favorite. The first recording of this symphony that I heard (which is possibly why I favor it). Got the LP a long time ago, still have it and I make all comparisons to this one. I won't vouch that it's "the best", but it is the one I find most favorable to my tastes for the work. And the Dvorak Ninth remains one of my favorite all-time works.


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## Rogerx

L.S.O conducted by István Kertész would be my first choice.


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## Olias

Mackerras and the Prague Symphony did my absolute favorite "live" performance of both the 8th and 9th. Czech music performed on home turf conducted by one of the greatest interpreters of Dvorak's music.


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## starthrower

I've had this one for almost 30 years. Never felt the need to get another version.


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## david johnson

Kubelik/CSO, Reiner/CSO...but I really like most all recordings I hear of the symphony


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## DavidA

Kubelik / BPO is absolutely fabulous.


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## Enthusiast

There are many that I love. It is a work that repays a number of different approaches. I will certainly second Talich and Kertesz. But I also love Celibidache's Munich recording as well as Ancerl, Fricsay and Kabasta. I'm sure I have forgotten a few!


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## mbhaub

Either of these, although this symphony has been tremendously successful on record - there aren't many that less than good.


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## jegreenwood

pcnog11 said:


> Which recording do you think is your choice for Dvorak "New World" symphony?
> 
> Mine is Reiner and Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Life must be good in 1950's in Chicago!


Probably my choice, although I have a number of recordings I like. A while back I overdosed on this work. For a few years I would not listen to it. Now I do, but not often.


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## Hermastersvoice

Gramophone Magazine did a survey of all available recordings a while ago and Ancerl's 1961 version with the Czech Philharmonic came out on top. The dead-certain pulse, the flowing rhythm marked it apart from the competition. I think that most good orchestras succeed in making something out of the lovely Largo, often cited as the touchstone for a good recording. However, in my view Ancerl's way with the 3rd movement is what truly sets his version apart. He adds a lovely lilt to the second subject of the Scherzo - it has to be heard to be believed. Great feeling to be in the presence of somebody who knows so much. Dead certain to bring a grin to your face.


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## Heck148

Reiner/CSO is a great version, right up there with my overall favorite - Toscanini/NBC...

Szell/Cleveland very good also..


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## wkasimer

Kertesz, but I'd look for his Vienna PO recording, instead of the LSO recording in the complete set.


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## Templeton

Lots of great recordings to choose from but here's another one.


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## DBLee

Put down another vote for


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## starthrower

wkasimer said:


> Kertesz, but I'd look for his Vienna PO recording, instead of the LSO recording in the complete set.


Available on Australian Eloquence label.


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## Merl

Spoilt for choice in the New World. There are great 9ths by Jansons, Harnoncourt, Szell, Kubelik, Nelsons, Ancerl, Kertez, Nowak, Van Zweden, Walter, Bernstein (NYPO - not the awful Israel PO remake), Macal (LPO), Mackerras, Reiner, Richman, Paavo Jarvi, Alsop, & Karajan (64) but my current favourite is this one. Fabulous performance and recording......


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## DLOinQUEENS

Merl said:


> Spoilt for choice in the New World. There are great 9ths by Harnoncourt, Szell, Kubelik, Ancerl, Kertez, Nowak, Walter, Bernstein (NYPO - not the awful Israel PO remake), Macal (LPO), Mackerras, Reiner, Richman, Paavo Jarvi, Alsop, & Karajan (64) but my current favourite is this one. Fabulous performance and recording......
> 
> View attachment 110127


Ah - I used to have that on SACD years back and sold it. I'll have to revisit that one. My vote is Kertesz/LSO, though - the recorded sound is just too tremendous.


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## Merl

DLOinQUEENS said:


> Ah - I used to have that on SACD years back and sold it. I'll have to revisit that one. My vote is Kertesz/LSO, though - the recorded sound is just too tremendous.


Ill be honest, the Fischer isnt my usual favourite (that fluctuates between the fabulous Macal / LPO CfP disc, Ancerl, Harnoncourt, Kertesz, Kubelik and Mackerras (Prague) but this one is on the car USB at the moment and im really enjoying hearing it again. Neumann's 9ths are self-recommending too.


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## larold

I concur Fricsay-Berlin.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Istvan Kertesz/Vienna Philharmonic...Dvorak: Symhony No.9, "New World"


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## geralmar

Excellent recommendations so far. I'll add this one for its "bite". Lacks first movement repeat, however.


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## Tchaikov6

DBLee said:


> Put down another vote for
> 
> View attachment 110088


Yup that's my current favorite. Really profound recording.


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## Ras

pcnog11 said:


> Which recording do you think is your choice for Dvorak "New World" symphony?


My favorite is *Antonio Pappano on EMI/Warner *and it comes with my favorite recording of Dvorak's cello concerto:


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## mbhaub

That picture on the front of the Pappano disk is funny! I suppose the Arizona iconic images say "This is America!" for a lot of people and that's why the images from this area are used so frequently. But really, waving wheat or corn fields from Iowa or somewhere else in the Midwest would be more appropriate. Even something from New England. Dvorak never made it further west that Spilville, Iowa. Leave Monument Valley for Copland.


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## 13hm13

One of my first classical albums (on vinyl Lp) was this Telarc 1980 digital recording:









Lost that one a while back 

But I do own Reiner/CSO (RCA Living Stereo, CD), Kubelik (DG, 1976), and a few more (too lazy to check my hard drives!!).

I'm interested in the 2008 Alsop/Baltimore recording and 2004 Mackerras / Czech Philharmonic.

The Mackerras is here:





From the YouTube video, the Mackerras recording seems quite good (as the the perf.). I want to like the Kubelik more, but poor sonics (that often plague DG releases) keep me from listening to the symph. in its entirely.


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## Joachim Raff

My favourite:









2nd favourite:

Live version


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## larold

Fricsay and Berlin Philharmonic preferably the LP that sounded better than CDs. Perhaps a recent version is better.


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## flamencosketches

^I want to hear that Alsop/Baltimore. Sounds really good.

What's with the cover artwork on that Giulini/Philharmonia? What label released that...?


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## Allegro Con Brio

I never tire of this symphony. 

My "must-hear" recommendations for everyone are Kubelik, Kertesz, Talich, Bernstein NY (not the awful Israel remake), and Szell.


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## Joachim Raff

flamencosketches said:


> ^I want to hear that Alsop/Baltimore. Sounds really good.
> 
> What's with the cover artwork on that Giulini/Philharmonia? What label released that...?


Yep, the alsop/baltimore recording is super. She makes the symphony sing.Very joyful. Super sound quality as well

Guilini Catalogue No: SCDL16003
Label: Putlabel


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## Joachim Raff

larold said:


> Fricsay and Berlin Philharmonic preferably the LP that sounded better than CDs. Perhaps a recent version is better.
> 
> View attachment 132654
> 
> 
> View attachment 132657


I agree with your comment on the cd transfer. The sound can be overbearing, harsh ( in your face) to the extent it becomes too much. Ok if you like it that way


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## Simplicissimus

I own three recordings of this cornerstone of the symphonic repertoire: Reiner/Chicago SO, 1957, RCA Living Stereo; Paray/Detroit SO, 1960, Mercury Living Presence; and Stokowski/New Philharmonia Orch, 1973, RCA Red Seal. Prompted by this thread and feeling like taking a break from early music for a while, I listened to all three in chronological order of recording. The Reiner and Paray have already been mentioned here, but not the Stokowski, and that's the main reason I'll say something here.

Reiner: This is the recording I was brought up on and it's still my favorite. It has that "just right" Reiner touch, beautiful playing, good sound, generally a spirited and expressive performance without being overly dramatic in the passages that do well with a more restrained approach.

Paray: Fast, extremely lively, swinging with dance and folk rhythms at times, a really nice reading but not as listenable as Reiner. I also don't find the sound quality as good as Living Stereo though it's from the same era. The playing is excellent even though I don't think of this as a top of the line orchestra.

Stokowski: Dramatic with huge dynamic range and varied tempi in the typical Stokowski fashion. Decent but not especially good sound quality. But I really don't like what he did with the brass at the end of the first movement. I'm generally pro-Stokowski, but I don't advocate for this recording as being anything worthwhile unless you need everything by Stokowski.

Conclusion: The recommendations in this thread are interesting, but for now I do not plan to buy any additional recordings of Dvorak 9. My ears will definitely perk up every time the symphony comes on WFMT, however, so that I might hear one of the recordings mentioned here.


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## flamencosketches

Has there ever been a "HIP" Dvorák 9? I know there are HIP Brahms symphonies being made in recent years. Dvorák would be the next logical step.


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## mbhaub

Well, there is this:








Richman gives a detailed explanation of how this is how Dvorak would have heard it in New York. Very careful attention to the score and all that, and maybe it is. But in light of the new Barenreiter edition it would seem no one has ever performed it correctly! A lot of the details in the new edition don't make a damn bit of difference for a listener. And one of the most controversial problems (that single cymbal stroke in the finale) is still not resolved in any definitive way. The New World is modern enough that the HIP concept becomes meaningless as far as I'm concerned. What I do demand is adherence to the score. Dvorak was a terrific orchestrator and tampering with his writing is wrong, foolish and stupid. For me, that instantly rules out Szell and Stokowski.


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## Allegro Con Brio

mbhaub said:


> Dvorak was a terrific orchestrator and tampering with his writing is wrong, foolish and stupid. For me, that instantly rules out Szell and Stokowski.


I know Stokowski is infamous for this, but how does Szell tamper with the orchestration?


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## Ravn

I will have to choose Jansons/Oslo Philharmonic. All Dvorak symphonies with Jansons/Oslo are nothing short of superb. I do also enjoy Celibidache/München, where I find that the slow tempo really brings out the second movement.


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## DaddyGeorge

As I wrote in another thread, I love many interpretation of this work (I will mention a few Czech conductors - Talich, Ančerl, Kubelík, Neumann, Bělohlávek,...). For me, the different interpretations create a mosaic from which I try to build a more complete picture of the composition... But I highly recommend recording by Bamberger Symphoniker and Jakub Hrůša:


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## mbhaub

In the second movement, he rescores some of the string writing, changing the violin 2 and viola parts. I'd have to go back to the score to recall all of it, but despite Szell's reputation as being dedicated to the score, in fact he tampered with the best of them and many of his recordings demonstrate his carefree attitude. After all, he knew better than anyone how something should be done - a little dictator he was.


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## Fredrikalansson

REPLY TO HERMASTERSVOICE: I once attended a rehearsal of the New World with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, and I still remember Ancerl getting the orchestra to play the second subject of the third movement with that lilt. What a difference it made! The TSO had been playing it like a German symphony, and now a little breath of Prague blew through their ranks. And all Ancerl did was tell them how to play a grace note and sing a bit of how he wanted it to go.


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## Hermastersvoice

Fredrikalansson, that is a wonderful memory to have. Yes, many conductors heading their fine worldly-aware orchestras play this like a German symphony, but then you get in the presence of somebody who knows a bit more, and with a band which sounds distinctly different from any other band and then you realise what you’ve been missing all along. As far I I’m concerned Ancerl’s recording has made me return so many times to this symphony even when I think I’ve had enough of it.


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## Joachim Raff

Rooting about in my spare room and i found an old cd collection that a friend gave me years ago. Most were run of the mill compilation albums. Then i came across a Dvorak recording i had never heard before. Put it in the player and wow! Unrefined sound quality but it certainly has a quality performance to it. Looked on Presto and its still there as a download


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## Bigbang

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I know Stokowski is infamous for this, but how does Szell tamper with the orchestration?


I am not aware of Szell doing anything with Dvorak but he did so with Schumann symphonies. I read a post by someone that in the case of Schumann, the idea that he was poor in orchestration was debunked but I have serious doubts about that. There is a reason that Schumann works have been subjected to analysis and redo passages to allow better flow regardless of why one thinks Schumann did what he did. I leave it to the interpreters of classical music(scholars/conductors) as they know why they have to bring the work up to being able to play the parts effectively. This goes on all the time and the fact is very simple that the music has to be interpreted one way or another. I do not listen to those who think that just because something is on a page--it is there somehow in some true objective way, and damn those who dare mess with some true art as it.


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## The3Bs

I have a few on LP and CD... and second the recommendations for Kubelik, Fricsay, Ancerl and even Karajan. Lately Szell left a long lasting impression on me:









Full of energy and fantastic string sections...

But I always keep coming back to:









This was the one I first got on CD and I always get back to this one after a enjoying some others...


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## Merl

The3Bs said:


> I have a few on LP and CD... and second the recommendations for Kubelik, Fricsay, Ancerl and even Karajan. Lately Szell left a long lasting impression on me:
> 
> View attachment 132848
> 
> 
> Full of energy and fantastic string sections...
> 
> But I always keep coming back to:
> 
> View attachment 132849
> 
> 
> This was the one I first got on CD and I always get back to this one after a enjoying some others...


Great choices! Yay, I've been championing that Macal recording for years. Nice to see someone else really enjoys it too. You can get it dirt cheap secondhand, anywhere. Try it, it's a cracker! Szell's last 3 are awesome too.


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## The3Bs

Merl said:


> Great choices! Yay, I've been championing that Macal recording for years. Nice to see someone else really enjoys it too. You can get it dirt cheap secondhand, anywhere. Try it, it's a cracker! Szell's last 3 are awesome too.


Thanks...

I am always somewhat puzzled why the Macal version is not mentioned more.
I acquired my copy for a fiver a long time ago... always felt it s a firecracker... maybe missing some nuances on the more romantic passages but it more than compensates with verve and full blooded assault... the first movement is absolutely thrilling...and also with more than average sound quality.

The Szell come very close in excitement and very nice orchestral playing....


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## Allegro Con Brio

What does everyone think about Barbirolli's 9th? (comes on an album called "Dvorak - The Great Symphonies") A top-3 conductor for me but I'm not sure if his dark, passionate, Mahlerian style comes across as convincingly in Dvorak.


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## Merl

Allegro Con Brio said:


> What does everyone think about Barbirolli's 9th? (comes on an album called "Dvorak - The Great Symphonies") A top-3 conductor for me but I'm not sure if his dark, passionate, Mahlerian style comes across as convincingly in Dvorak.


I assume you are talking about his Halle Orchestra recordings, ACB. It's an interesting but a far too serious version of the 9th. I much prefer his accounts of the 7th and 8th with the Halle. There's a glorious live 7th feauturing him and the Concertgebouw which puts his other Dvorak recordings in the shade, though. That's something special.


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## kingrayvilla

Vaclav Smetacek conducting Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra is the very best, I believe.


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## JTS

Kubelik / BPO comes in top of my list


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## HerbertNorman

JTS said:


> Kubelik / BPO comes in top of my list


That's one of my very favourites too , along with the L.S.O Kertesz ... two best ones I possess


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## Animal the Drummer

Both Kertesz' recordings are delightful - his earlier one with the VPO is perhaps a more personal one and not everyone will enjoy its ups and downs equally, but for me it has a special inner glow to it. I also like Giulini with the Philharmonia, another version which may not be to everyone's taste (the strings are very plush and he can linger a bit here and there) but one which I've always loved.


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## RobertJTh

One of the most peculiar versions of D9 must be Oswald Kabasta's 1944 Munich performance.
Exciting and over the top Furtwänglerian (it was long thought to be a WF recording), by a conductor whose tragically cut short life prevented him from being more well-known today.






As for a more modern recommendation, here's a nice "sleeper". Bought this one for 50 cents at the dump shop while not being a big fan of the conductor - or even the symphony itself. And yet it blew me away completely. A spectacular performance, brilliant but balanced, detailed but never fussy. I guess it goes in some other incarnation nowadays since Virgin has become part of god knows what big corporate entity now.


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