# The PROMS Streaming



## Dakota

The WQXR classical music station in New York will be streaming from the PROMS every day! Enjoy the concerts online here: http://www.wqxr.org/#!/articles/bbc-proms-2012-live/2012/jul/16/bbc-proms-week-july-16/?utm_source=local&utm_media=treatment&utm_campaign=carousel&utm_content=item0


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## Lunasong

Looks more like a link to  BBC Radio 3.
Thanks for refreshing the topic.


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## Very Senior Member

Lunasong said:


> Looks more like a link to  BBC Radio 3.
> Thanks for refreshing the topic.


You're correct, it's a link to Radio 3, so you get all the programmes, not just Proms performances.

Right now they're playing an exquisite piece by Handel who is this week's "Composer of the Week": HWV 253 - "O come let us sing unto the Lord", Chandos Anthem No 8.

It may be worth noting by any non-UK members who are interested that recordings of Proms performances are often repeated a few later, in the afternoons.


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## Guest

I'm a newbie and searching for any discussion of Barenboim's Beethoven at the Proms, where he is conducting all 9 symphonies in one week. On Friday, he started with the 1st and 2nd, each of which I'd heard only once before (except 4th movement of the 1st of course). Last night was the 4th and 3rd. Again, I'm a newcomer to the 4th, but have Haitink/LSO's Eroica.

I'm interested in any opinions, but also in a comment made by the BBC pundit who, asked what the audience would see in the 3rd that was different than previous symphonies, said "outwardly, nothing - one more horn, that's all." I'm sure that he was wrong, as I distinctly saw only six basses for the 4th, then 8 for the 3rd, and there were fewer overall for the 1st and 2nd. Any comment anyone?


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## Very Senior Member

MacLeod said:


> I'm a newbie and searching for any discussion of Barenboim's Beethoven at the Proms, where he is conducting all 9 symphonies in one week. On Friday, he started with the 1st and 2nd, each of which I'd heard only once before (except 4th movement of the 1st of course). Last night was the 4th and 3rd. Again, I'm a newcomer to the 4th, but have Haitink/LSO's Eroica.
> 
> I'm interested in any opinions, but also in a comment made by the BBC pundit who, asked what the audience would see in the 3rd that was different than previous symphonies, said "outwardly, nothing - one more horn, that's all." I'm sure that he was wrong, as I distinctly saw only six basses for the 4th, then 8 for the 3rd, and there were fewer overall for the 1st and 2nd. Any comment anyone?


I think there were 4 basses used in the 1st and 2nd Symphonies. I'm not sure about the 3rd and 4th but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. In late classical and early romantic orchestras you would normally expect to see anything between 2-6 basses, with 8 becoming more the norm in the late romantic period. In fact it was Beethoven who largly set the pattern for orchestral forces which later composers folowed throughout much of the remaining 19th century.

The more striking difference was the extra horn used in the Eroica. This is what the BBC presenter was referring to, as this was a more significant addition compared with a bit of extra strength in the strings. In the 5th Beethoven went further by adding a piccolo, contra-bassoon, and 3 trombones, a pattern not repeated until the 9th. The 6th uses a piccolo and 2 trombones, in addition to the usual flutes, violins, cellos and basses. As as I know, the 7th and 8th reverted to the same forces as used in the 1st and 2nd, with possibly a few extra basses.

It was interesting what Barenboim had to say regarding the 8th, that it is under-rated compared with various others. I think he was saying that it is perhaps not quite as path-breaking as some of the earlier ones, but nevertheless contains quite a bit of new thinking. The 8th is, I think, a very nice work, which I've always admired.

He also made the well known observation that each of Beethoven's Symphonies is different, there being nothing generic about them at all. One simply couldn't predict what he might do next having heard only the previous ones. It was also interesting to learn that Beethoven might have written more symphonies but lacked the commissions. This rather knocks on the head the often-heard argument that Beethoven largely did his own thing regardless of customers.

As for the actual performances so far they seem good to me. I'm taping the whole lot, and removing as much as I can of the extraneous noises like clapping between movements, which I'm afraid that I find irritating. The venue is good, the orchestra is good, and the conductor very good. They're all being done within a week, so they should produce a nicely consistent set.


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## Guest

Thanks. Pleased it wasn't just me that spotted some other differences. Why would the extra horn be of greater significance? Is it simply that its strident tone would be much more noticeable? Or that three horns can play more complex harmonies? Or...?

I noted that the clapping between movements on the first night disappeared on the second. Perhaps management had a word with the audience?


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## Very Senior Member

MacLeod said:


> Thanks. Pleased it wasn't just me that spotted some other differences. Why would the extra horn be of greater significance? Is it simply that its strident tone would be much more noticeable? Or that three horns can play more complex harmonies? Or...?
> 
> I noted that the clapping between movements on the first night disappeared on the second. Perhaps management had a word with the audience?


I suspect the extra horn was added to alter the overall colour of the music (more brass) as well as adding more volume, not to play more complex harmonies as it's the same instrument.

In the 5th that was performed last night the brass was fortified yet further by adding trombones, counter-bassoon and a piccolo. It was noted by the BBC presenter that the finale of this symphony was probably the loudest sound that concert audiences had experienced up to that time. It's an amazing work that we perhaps take too much for granted these days. The original audience listening to it at its debut must have been shaken up like nothing thing before it, as it just gets better and better until its culmination. Overall I thought the work was played exceptionally well, but I have enjoyed them all so far. There was only a tiny amount of audience coughing etc.

You're right about the audience clapping. It seems to have stopped after the 1st symphony. I don't know why. It struck me that Daniel Barenboim was none too pleased about the clapping. Maybe there was some kind of announcement.


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