# Essential non-Western classical music



## arturliberalis (Nov 26, 2016)

Hi All 

I'm a beginner at classical music and after a couple of days of research, I came to realize that little is mentioned about classical music from outside Europe. I understand it also has to do with notation and other factors, but it still bothers me a lot (even though I'm European).

I'd like to have this thread as a place for a comprehensive list about non-Western classical music, which consists of the important works by different civilizations, so that in the end we could compile a list similar to this:

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Sator...u_must_hear_before_you_die__2007_us_edition_/

If you are from a non-Western country, please inform us what musical works are considered there essential, and possibly list the title, the composer, the date and a link to listen.

Thanks 

Let me start with:

*Jieshi Diao Youlan* by *unknown* in *6th century* from *China*
listen:

__
https://soundcloud.com/muka-fushimi%2Fjieshi-diao-youlan-no5
more info at: http://www.silkqin.com/02qnpu/01yl.htm


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

I wonder why you're only asking non-Westerners to contribute. Surely at least _some_ Westerners have good knowledge of _some_ some non-Western country's traditions?

Being a Westerner, I guess I'll refrain from posting any recommendations. I'd just like to mention that your concept will not work for many countries. Taking India as an example, you'll find that the "classical" tradition revolves not around individual pieces, but modes of improvisation. You'll also find it difficult to ascertain which musical works are considered "essential": being so densely populated, India hosts not only the "classical music" everybody has heard of, but also a huge number of local sacred and secular traditions, and an equally great (if not greater) number of ethnic traditions that can have very little to do with the "classical" one. I think they deserve consideration just as much as any others.

It is the same with China, of course. You're posting a guqin piece, which is part of the "classical" "classical music" tradition. But there are also specialized "classical music" traditions in China, such as the Peking Opera, or the more obscure ones such as the Nan-Kuan tradition, and of course all kinds of village music from percussion ensembles to tiny mouth harps. Watch this movie on Youtube: 



 This isn't a very well known tradition, and you're not likely to encounter this kind of music even on large & comprehensive "Traditional Chinese Music" compilations. But I could never say it isn't an essential thing to know, given how interesting, varied, unique, and rare it is.

Or take Russia. There are quite a few folk festivals where all kinds of village songs are sung, so some of that repertoire is well known and would be considered essential. Some of it was composed in the 19th century, though, and some in the 20th, so you may have a problem accepting it as true folk. There are also some authentic things like the ubiquitous Во поле берёза стояла, of course, so you may want to accept those only. However, there is also a distinct fake "folk" tradition played mostly on instruments invented in late 19th-early 20th century. It's called "Russian folk instruments orchestra" and while completely inauthentic, by now, after 100+ years, it's firmly rooted in mass consciousness. So, essential? Personally I detest it, but I know a lot of fans. And then there are old traditions that are almost dead, such as the bylinas. Recordings made in early 1900s survive, but I can't imagine too many people listening to them - for most Russian people today they're just little folk tales, completely divorced from their musical context. But any historian would tell you they are absolutely essential as a powerful tradition.

This is just a tiny, tiny sample of the problems you'll encounter trying to piece together the world's music. There's a reason why they have textbooks on "ethnic music appreciation", and a reason why such textbooks routinely only concentrate on a very limited number of traditions as examples.


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I enjoy listening to Javanese gamelan music. It has very intricate polyphonic textures.

Debussy was influenced by the sounds of the gamelan. Listening to this type of music helps me appreciate and understand Debussy better.


----------



## ilovegrieg (Nov 12, 2016)

China:
*Gao Shan Liu Shui (High Mountains Flowing Water) * is probably the most famous Chinese guzheng piece.




*Sai Ma Qu (Horse Racing)* is one of the most famous erhu pieces. 



*Shi Mian Mai Fu (Ambush on Ten Sides)* is the most famous pipa piece.


----------



## ilovegrieg (Nov 12, 2016)

Here are some of the most famous pieces that explicitly and intentionally fuse traditional and Western ideas in music.




(Butterfly Lovers Violin Concerto by Gang Chen)




(Yellow River Piano Concerto)


----------



## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

since we're allowing western/nonwestern fusion here..since this is the western classical music forum, you can't not include Takemitsu's "November Steps"

which is amazing, basically a concerto for orchestra and Shakuhachi/Biwa


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

As I understand it, no non-western musical traditions ever developed as accurate a notation system as the western one, so I would guess that in such traditions, there is perhaps not quite as clear a distinction between classical and folk traditions? I quite enjoyed quite a bit of non-western folk music, but I don't really know much about. I am also very fond of some European folk music, especially from eastern Europe.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Myriadi said:


> I wonder why you're only asking non-Westerners to contribute. Surely at least _some_ Westerners have good knowledge of _some_ some non-Western country's traditions?
> 
> Being a Westerner, I guess I'll refrain from posting any recommendations. I'd just like to mention that your concept will not work for many countries. Taking India as an example, you'll find that the "classical" tradition revolves not around individual pieces, but modes of improvisation. You'll also find it difficult to ascertain which musical works are considered "essential": being so densely populated, India hosts not only the "classical music" everybody has heard of, but also a huge number of local sacred and secular traditions, and an equally great (if not greater) number of ethnic traditions that can have very little to do with the "classical" one. I think they deserve consideration just as much as any others.
> 
> ...


Well, I agree, but then let's not make just a list of pieces but add lists of modes of improvisation, for instance for India, Pakistan and Iran, accompanied by a great example, and different classical music traditions from China (with examples) etc.

Such a broadened 'list', brought together by membership here, would be very interesting imo.


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Well, I agree, but then let's not make just a list of pieces but add lists of modes of improvisation, for instance for India, Pakistan and Iran, accompanied by a great example, and different classical music traditions from China (with examples) etc.
> 
> Such a broadened 'list', brought together by membership here, would be very interesting imo.


Still problematic!  The repertoire is just so vast. I've been collecting folk music records for many years, and I can tell you it's a very difficult task to make any sort of comprehensive/essential list.

But, to offer something a bit more constructive, if we start with the guqin repertoire like the OP did, here's this 8CD set, recorded in the 1950s, which I think is the best possible purchase with this kind of music:

http://www.chineseculture.net/musicmall/cds/html/guqin/8qincd.html
https://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Chinese-Traditional-Music-Played/dp/B000QZY8BQ

There are quite a few legendary performers featured, and a few of the instruments featured have silk strings, which is something you don't often hear these days. I think this collection has very good sound quality for its time. Very deep, very enjoyable, very educational. A somewhat lesser effort, but probably cheaper and easier to find (?), was recorded in the 1990s:

https://www.windmusic.com.tw/en/pro_list.asp?LIB_ID=A&SET_NO=AX02&id=01

It's also very good, though. There's a nice variety of both tunes and approaches, and the sound quality may be easier on the ears than the other compilation.

Then, after you're done listening to the 12 CDs  it's time to move to recordings made by individual performers. In the West, I think Guan Pinghu was probably the most famous of all guqin players. He's featured on the compilation I linked above, but I also have this nice 2CD set dedicated to him only:

https://www.discogs.com/管平湖-管平湖古琴曲集-Favourite-Qin-Pieces-of-Guan-Ping-hu/release/8304346

Anyway, this is the man whose recording of "Flowing Waters" was chosen for the Voyager Golden Record, so I think it'd be easy to find other CDs. For those who prefer cleaner, modern sound, there's a very good Ocora record of another master from a later period, Li Xiangting:

https://www.discogs.com/Li-Xiangting-Chine-LArt-Du-Qin/release/4414603

This was made in the 1990s, I think. Not quite Guan Pinghu, but immensely solid playing. Another French record, from VDE-Gallo, is this 2CD set with variable sound quality (because it was compiled from a bunch of recordings made over the years by Tsar Teh-Yun):

http://www.vdegallo-music.com/chine-tsar-teh-yun-maitre-du-qin-1/?lang=en

This one even features a little track showcasing the different types of touch codified for the guqin technique.

And once you're done with all of the CDs above, a whole world opens up with countless interesting CDs such as this one, with an intriguing backstory:

http://arbiterrecords.org/catalog/lost-sounds-of-the-tao/

Or some you won't easily find in Western shops, such as these recordings by Li Kong-Yuan, with guqin-flute duets:

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4749040e0102virt.html

You can use the Wiki article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_guqin_players, it is quite useful.

So, that's 21 CDs, and this should be enough to get you a decent beginner-to-intermediate level of knowledge of the repertoire. You can proceed to something else, such as Chinese opera, in a variety of records. Here's a handy compilation:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/llf/-/An+Introduction+to+Chinese+Opera/1

And here are a couple of records of two different types of Chinese opera, Peking (Banqiang) and Kunqu:

https://www.amazon.fr/Opéra-Pékin-Forêt-Princesse-cent-fleurs/dp/B00004XQI1
http://www.maisondesculturesdumonde.org/taiwan-le-pavillon-aux-pivoines

Now I think I'll take a break :angel:


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Myriadi, my hat is off to you! :tiphat: Thank you for being a source and a catalyst for others to further explore this music.

In fact, let me expand my gratitude to include everyone who has contributed their knowledge to this thread.


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Myriadi, my hat is off to you! :tiphat: Thank you for being a source and a catalyst for others to further explore this music.


You're welcome! I think I'll try later to contribute a similar list about gamelan and other Indonesian traditions, since that's one of the most talked-about ethnic things in the Classical world.

Actually, I could cover most other countries as well (a bit of an overstatement, but I do have a big collection... ) but I'm not sure which are more and which are less interesting, so I think I'll wait for people to express interest. And/or add their own recommendations!


----------



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

ilovegrieg said:


> Here are some of the most famous pieces that explicitly and intentionally fuse traditional and Western ideas in music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Yellow River is an example of Western classical music influence for China. This piece served as a motivation piece for the Chinese to fight against the Japanese in WWII. There is a variation version for vocal performance as well call Yellow River Cantata. Please see link below:


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Under the heading of "Inspired by....", here is Colin McPhee's _Tabuh Tabuhan_. McPhee was enthralled by Balinese gamelan; the result sounds like Debussy, Villa-Lobos, and maybe even a bit of Rachmaninoff put into a blender along with a gamelan ensemble. I rather like it.


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Myriadi said:


> You're welcome! I think I'll try later to contribute a similar list about gamelan and other Indonesian traditions, since that's one of the most talked-about ethnic things in the Classical world.


That would be great! As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm very interested in learning more about gamelan music. I'm curious about it for its own sake, but also because I want to understand more about how it influenced Debussy (one of my favorite composers).

I enjoyed your Chinese music list and I found it incredibly helpful and informative...I would be very grateful if you could put together something like that for Indonesian musical traditions.


----------



## jeanbaptiste (Nov 27, 2016)

"classical music" is not as well-defined a term outside of the Western world... i think "art music" might be an appropriate title for what you're looking for?

at any rate, one of my favourite forms of music is _gagaku_, that of Japanese court music mostly dating from the 10th-12th centuries






like gamelan, gagaku has supposedly been an influence on American minimalist composers. the similarities are quite superficial, in my opinion.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

In case anyone has missed it, there is a thread started on southeast Asian classical dance, on the Non-Classical subforum. Lots of interesting musical accompaniment to the dance.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Myriadi said:


> You're welcome! I think I'll try later to contribute a similar list about gamelan and other Indonesian traditions, since that's one of the most talked-about ethnic things in the Classical world.
> 
> Actually, I could cover most other countries as well (a bit of an overstatement, but I do have a big collection... ) but I'm not sure which are more and which are less interesting, so I think I'll wait for people to express interest. And/or add their own recommendations!


Myriadi, nice you took the hint of approaching it more from the constructive side. I'm very much impressed and your post is very useful for anyone that wants to get started on guqin.

Apart from Gamelan which I would also be interested in, I think my main interest lies with Pakistani, Indian, Persian/Iranian and Turkish music (apart from African music that is, ha ha). I would also be interested in what binds and separates the music of these countries or in other words: how the music changes with the longitude (gradual changes or distinct, sudden differences).

When you'd find the time I woud be very grateful for your knowledge to be shared with me and others that like that kind of music. But the repertoire is vast indeed. To me it seems hardly possible to get the kind of knowledge you have on (almost) all countries in the world. How on earth did you do that?


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Myriadi, nice you took the hint of approaching it more from the constructive side. I'm very much impressed and your post is very useful for anyone that wants to get started on guqin.


Thanks 



Casebearer said:


> Apart from Gamelan which I would also be interested in, I think my main interest lies with Pakistani, Indian, Persian/Iranian and Turkish music (apart from African music that is, ha ha). I would also be interested in what binds and separates the music of these countries or in other words: how the music changes with the longitude (gradual changes or distinct, sudden differences).


That's quite an area you've picked! A lot of ground to cover. Iran is the easiest since they have the Mahoor Institute, which releases exceptionally well-organized and well-produced records:

http://www.mahoor.com/cds.aspx

The site seems to be down for me right now, so I can't give links, but there are instrument-based compilations such as "A Century of ..." (santur, avaz, tar, etc.), a huge "Regional Music of Iran" series which includes all kinds of tribal traditions, and a lot of other goodies. Very high standards and they also reissue a lot of archival records, so there's a lot of rare material.

Of course, if you haven't heard them, these old Western recordings are still good, albeit general, introductions:
http://www.nonesuch.com/albums/persian-classical-music
http://www.folkways.si.edu/classica...central-asia-islamica-world/album/smithsonian (also, Folkways have their very informative booklets available for free for almost all of their records)

I haven't come across any good introductory Pakistan music records or compilations, unfortunately. Shouldn't come as a surprise, given the state the country is currently in. Turkey is actually one of the few countries I don't have a very solid grasp on. And India has so much music I'll have to think hard about how to make a post about it... Would you be interested mostly in the "classical" repertoire, or tribal/minorities/low caste musics as well?



Casebearer said:


> When you'd find the time I woud be very grateful for your knowledge to be shared with me and others that like that kind of music. But the repertoire is vast indeed. To me it seems hardly possible to get the kind of knowledge you have on (almost) all countries in the world. How on earth did you do that?


Well, like I said, a bit of an overstatement. Like with Turkey above, I have something like 20 or 25 records, but have to refrain from recommending anything, since I don't feel very confident. But also some of my jobs were connected to a lot of these "exotic" countries, and I've been lucky to meet a couple of very accomplished collectors of folk records and learn from them.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2016)

I like to add this video with music from Nubia.Most african music is polluted,there is so much cultural erosion.
This one I like very much and it is on cd as well Hamza el Din and waterwheel a kind of contant repetition like the mule or buffalo walking in circels the whole day in the hot sun,when you listen you see what I mean.Give it a few minutes and enjoy.


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

The thing with gamelan (which is a generic term for many different kinds of ensembles, all drawing from a common pool of instruments, as it were - a bit like saying "chamber ensemble" when talking of 19th century music) is that this music is exceptionally, fiendishly, impossibly difficult to record. Not only does it feature lots of bells and gongs, which can be a real nightmare for an engineer, but gamelan is also traditionally played in halls that have roofs on pillars, but no side walls. The sound is supposed to envelop you, fill the air, mix with the natural sounds. When a large gong is struck softly, there's a gentle vibration that goes on for the longest time, resonating with your entire body. Sound is reflected from everything in sight, producing an infintely complex pattern of reflections. (Also, there are birds, crickets, and frogs, contributing to the atmosphere. There's a very old, very well-known anecdote about an American gamelan ensemble performing in front of a celebrated gamelan master from Indonesia, who complimented them on their skills, but found something lacking, and later realized he missed the sound of the frogs croaking.)

So one thing to look for in a record is a good understanding of the problem. If things sound too crisp and clear, you're just getting an academic recording in which the rhythms are all on display, but which doesn't communicate the spirit of the music at all. One set of recordings to look into is Robert Brown's _Javanese Court Gamelan_ on Nonesuch:

http://www.nonesuch.com/albums/java-court-gamelan

There are three CDs. The balance of instruments is superbly done, and is probably the best representation of gamelan available. These recordings were made in the 1970s, though, so there is quite some hiss. There's also a lot of singing, which may put off some people (personally, I think you have to be used to this kind of thing). Singing can be a bit more tolerable on this well-recorded CD:

https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Music-Java/dp/B0000003A7

And there's no singing at all on this wonderful recording, done in the same hall as CD No. 2 of Brown's set (the Istana Mangkunegaran in Solo):

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Mangkunegaran-Solo-Various-Artists/dp/B000001LV4
or https://www.discogs.com/Langen-Praja-Music-Of-Mangkunêgaran-Solo-1/release/2429188

A comparison may be made with this nice, comprehensive set:

http://www.maisondesculturesdumonde.org/node/525

It's been made with the best possible intentions, but the instruments are recorded a bit too closely, and the actual character of the music is practically lost. Still, there are much worse records, and I feel bad for criticizing an Inedit record. Fun fact: many of the very best world music records were made in France by labels such as Ocora (Radio France), Buda Musique, and the aforementioned Inedit.

Now, these are all recordings made on Java. Debussy may have heard something like some of these pieces, but the truth is, we don't really know what he heard, since the documentation of the event isn't comprehensive at all. Javanese musicians were playing, but what and using which instruments isn't so clear. If you can find the following recording of Sundanese gamelan (a subset of Javanese), you'll spot the tuning difference straight away compared to the aforementioned CDs:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Jav...ntes-2-LArt-Du-Gamelan-Degung/release/1916612

Anyway, there are two more gamelan traditions: one from Bali, a small island to the east of Java, and one from Madura, also a small island, also to the east. The Madura tradition is now a minor offshoot, barely known, so AFAIK there's just one solid recording:

https://www.amazon.ca/Musique-savante-Madura-MUSICIENS-TRADITIONNELS/dp/B000003IFH

With Bali it's more complicated, as there are quite a few gamelan varieties to check out, and I haven't encountered any recordings I could classify as essential. Maybe try to find these:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Bali-Les-Grands-Gong-Kebyar-Des-Années-Soixante/release/1098110
(one of the most famous gamelan varieties, recorded a bit too closely, but expertly played)

http://www.medieval.org/music/world/cds/ocr59002.html
(another famous gamelan variety, this CD isn't the best-recorded; there are out-of-print cassettes from Indonesia which get reposted on the net every now and again with STSI recordings, but I'm not sure if the links are legal to post here)

https://www.amazon.com/JVC-WORLD-SOUNDS-BEST-JEGOG-VOL-1/dp/B00005GWC2
(a strange gamelan-like ensemble, but with bamboo instruments)

Just as with the guqin post, this forms a rough introduction to the gamelan repertoire. Indonesia is home to hundreds of musical traditions, though. Some of them are related to the gamelan in one way or another, some are completely different. The best survey currently available is Folkways' exceptional "Music of Indonesia" series, which has 20 volumes:

http://www.folkways.si.edu/music-of-indonesia-series/smithsonian

The first volume, "Songs Before Dawn", is a perfect example of something that is gamelan-ish enough, but also different enough. The last volume has songs with modern guitar accompaniment that can start a bit like country song, but end up somewhere completely different. I'd advise caution and listening before buying, since a lot of very different things are included, pop songs even (on one CD, I think).

There's a lot of musical variety in Indonesia. However, records of anything but gamelan are rather hard to find. Many styles are of course dying, or have been dead for some time, only available on impossible-to-find archival LPs. To finish this post, I'll list two out of a number of interesting recordings:

https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Sarawakian-Sape-Tusan-Padan/dp/B000028EBF
(electric sape, a kind of a lutefrom Borneo; I really like the music here)

https://www.discogs.com/Yakob-Mberu-Yermiasu-August-Pah-Music-Of-Sasandu/release/1386351
(a very strange, alien-looking plucked string instrument from a small island near Timor - a bit too much production and reverb for my taste, but the instrument is rather interesting anyway)

Phew! Hope this helps and answers some of the questions people may have on finding gamelan/Indonesian music records.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

^^^and ^
Haven't got the time now but I'll surely dive into that!

Thanks a lot


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> ^^^and ^
> Haven't got the time now but I'll surely dive into that!
> 
> Thanks a lot


:tiphat:
(15 characters)


----------



## arcticranger (Nov 30, 2016)

Toshiro Mayazumi. This is 2nd movement of his Mandala Symphony.





Clytemnesta by Egypt's Halim El-Dabh. 





I guess Tanya Leon from Cuba would still be considered Western but whatever, she is amazing


----------



## arturliberalis (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks for all the answers; somehow I didn't notice I got answers until now, plus I was overwhelmed by work.

Since I began the thread I found two useful pages:

http://www.medieval.org/music/world.html
http://www.wmich.edu/mus-gened/mus150/WorldMusic.htm

I also tried to contact some academics for help, I will keep you updated and once I managed to gather information, I will post a list of essential world music. In the meantime, please keep answering


----------



## Lyricus (Dec 11, 2015)

Cross-posting to this thread on advice from another member:

I've been in love with this piece for years now ever since I stumbled upon it through P2P in the early 2000s (I think 2003? 2004?).

I've been lucky to find it on Youtube: 




However, I cannot find any information on it at all. I'm pretty sure it's a traditional piece, because it was covered on this CD: 




Same song, different versions, though I think I prefer the former. I tried searching for "Song of Melancholy," but no dice there.

Any help in identifying the piece?


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Yes, that was me. Myriad could you help Lyricus identify this Erhu piece?


----------



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

This is one area where I am weak. However - of non western classical music I do know - mainly from the Indian films - I love the traditional classical singing of Indian women. Not sure what it is called.
Peruvian pipe music is nice.


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Lyricus said:


> Cross-posting to this thread on advice from another member:
> 
> I've been in love with this piece for years now ever since I stumbled upon it through P2P in the early 2000s (I think 2003? 2004?).
> 
> ...


The Chinese title is 悲歌. I don't speak or read the language, unfortunately, but I am given to understand that this is indeed "sad melody", "melancholic song", "elegy", etc. all in one. Chinese translation is hard. Anyway, if you put 悲歌 二胡 (i.e. the title and the Chinese word for erhu) in Youtube search, you'll end up with a bunch of versions.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Lyricus (Dec 11, 2015)

Myriadi said:


> The Chinese title is 悲歌. I don't speak or read the language, unfortunately, but I am given to understand that this is indeed "sad melody", "melancholic song", "elegy", etc. all in one. Chinese translation is hard. Anyway, if you put 悲歌 二胡 (i.e. the title and the Chinese word for erhu) in Youtube search, you'll end up with a bunch of versions.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Thank you very much! It's a big step in solving the puzzle. I appreciate it!


----------



## Mohayeji (Aug 24, 2017)

Persian music:

Chakad by Parviz Meshkatian (It is composed in Chahargah Scale, probably the most different and the most exotic Persian scale):





Bidad by Parviz Meshkatian:





Khosro & Shirin by Parviz Meshkatian:





Khazan by Parviz Meshkatian:





Sarkesh by Parviz Meshkatian:





More traditional examples (and probably more exotic for those who are not familiar with Persian classical music):

Improvisation by Farhang Sharif:









ٰImprovisation by Jalil Shahnaz:









These two will sound more familiar:
Dance of Wind by Ardavan Kamkar:





Grind Fine Diamonds by Ardavan Kamkar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tad5...Q9GAUd&index=4


----------



## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

When we say "classical music" don't we mean Western art music, at least art music in the Western tradition (everyone considers Takemitsu classical for example)? Non-western classical music (defing "classical music" in the way we use the term on this site and generally in the West) seems a bit of a non sequitur.

Most people here seem to be posting modern works by non-Western composers in Western genres (concertos, sonatas, etc.), tonality and general style, which I think could be considered classical music. However, you post a 6th century piece from China, which makes me think you're looking for traditional music from non-Western countries.

Here is one of my favorite genres of non-Western traditional music; Gagaku:






No matter the terminology, I'm in full support of exploring and discussing music old and new from non-Western countries! There is a whole sea of beautiful art and tradition outside the West which should not be ignored.


----------



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

I absolutely love the idea and hope this thread will be frequently visited.

I am very much into the Japanese tradition *shakuhachi*. Quick summary: the shakuhachi is a bamboo flute, tuned to the minor pentatonic scale.

The unaccompanied shakuhachi music, especially _honkyoku_- the music of the komusō monks, are among the solo music of the highest quality that I've heard (that include Bach's sonatas and violins for the violin).

One specific aspect of the shakuhachi that intrigues me is the pronounced dichotomy between *music *and *noise*. I would like to quote this article by an experthttp://ethnomusicologyreview.ucla.edu/journal/volume/17/piece/585)

_Classical shakuhachi honkyoku, the music of the komuso monks, has certain technical and stylistic features that predispose it to resist being heard as music. The first consists of an arsenal of playing techniques more closely resembling noise than musical sound. Although the thin line between music and noise is culturally and situationally determined and depends upon a wide range of variables that fall well outside the scope of this article, it is accurate to say that shakuhachi players inside and outside Japan consciously cultivate noise techniques and understand them as such. Kaoru Kakizakai, a renowned player based in Tokyo, explains: "when we want to express something deep, strong, and hard, we use noise" (personal conversation with Kakizakai, 15 November 2010). He goes on to say that there is a "big possibility of sound" in Japanese music, but not all sounds are, strictly speaking in the Western sense, "musical," a fact I will discuss shortly. Noise techniques vary widely and include this greatly abbreviated list: "bamboo grass blowing" (sasane), a breezy tone infused with breathy noise; "thrashing breath" (muraiki), an explosive rush of air; koro-koro, a bobbling rhythmic effect best understood by its onomatopoeic name; tamane, an avian-sounding tremolo effect akin to flutter-tonguing; "voice of the wind" (fuusei), a high, piercing wail; "rain drops" (amadare), a waterfall-like swoop, and so forth. In addition to such specific techniques, shakuhachi playing involves a number of body-instrument interactions that lead to disruption of timbral purity, including meri notes, which produce an occluded, "gloomy" sound._

Take, for example, the famous _Mukaiji reibo_ (Misty Ocean Bell). The breezy "noises" from 8:05-8:10 is incredibly tasteful and chilling.






I find the music/noise relationship in tradition shakuhachi ways more aesthetically and intellectually stimulating than in some contemporary western "music". I would take any of the shakuhachi pieces over , says, Berio's _Gesti_ (which also composed for solo wind instrument).

P/S: the _Jieshi Diao Youlan_ from the OP post is so nice. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

Here's some Korean Classical music:


----------



## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I have just started reading this book, The Other Classical Musics, editor Michael Church









Fifteen chapters each written by someone different. 
Thailand 
Java
Japan
China
Chinese Opera
American Jazz
West African
North Indian
South Indian
Turkey
Iran
Europe
North African
Uzbekistan

It looks to be a big read, a lot of information and my starting point is practically zero. At the end of each chapter is a listening guide. The book is from the library. I'll photocopy the listening guide for future reference. I'm interested and curious but this book could be a heavy lift, I mean too much information to absorb at one go, and not just a heavy lift because it's a hard cover.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, if American Jazz is within the purview of the book as a Non-western Classical Music, traditional cante flamenco most assuredly meets whatever criteria have been put forward. With more than a century and a half of well-documented performance, and centuries of postulated performance, the evolution of scores of song types (_palos)_, firm rules about rhythmic structure, and oodles of tradition and legend about origins and about great past practitioners, I'll add it as the 16th Great Tradition!

Thoughts About Cante Flamenco


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Let me also suggest a long trawl through the Non-Classical Music forum in search of non-western musics, whether Classical or no. There are entries on several genres of Afro-Arabic song of Morocco (Gharnati) and of Mauretania, other song, dance music and dancing, etc. Here is a thread in Southeast Asian dance: Music and Dance of Southeast Asia


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Japanese gagaku music deserves discussion here, though I'm not well enough informed to do it.

Edit - wrote "goku" which appears to be a video game character - how embarrassing.


----------

