# What do you think of ...? How often do you smoke?



## Agatha (Nov 3, 2009)

My son will be 20 in March, he is a second year university student (mech engineering) he smokes ... almost every day. I am having realy hard time accepting this? Should I be worried? Is it normal in the States? Europe?


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I am a former smoker who did like 1 pack a day for 37 years. I quit, cold-turkey, on Nov 1, 2004 and have been totally tobacco free ever since. I now know that I smelled like a walking ashtray around other people ... it gets on clothing and on the upholstery in our homes and in our cars, too.

I am not "anti" smoking ... quite the contrary ... it's a choice anyone can make for themselves. In fact, I truly enjoy being around those who do smoke ... but I have zero interest in restarting again ... ever.

I am, of course, referring to _legal_ tobacco consumption ... those products that are freely available in various retail stores.

With kids, I think it's probably more of a phase they are going through ... they think it's "cool" to do, especially around friends who also smoke. My son was around parents and grandparents who smoked all the time ... but he never had any desire to start, and hasn't, to this day, and he's almost 26.

Years ago ... 40-50 years that is, it was "the" social thing to do ... most everybody did, and it was accepted as normal. In the current times, with more emphasis on health concerns, it has become no longer acceptable or has multiple restrictions on what is a legal activity.

I would let your son find _his_ way on this ... as long as he is doing something that is legalized in your region/country. You could explain the 'dangers' of smoking (not to forget the exorbitant cost) but that may or may not be taken in the light that you intended.

I was 19 when I started ... quit when I was 56 ... took me a long time to realize how stupid it was for me ... but I'm not in any worse health for it, either ... but I'm happy with my decision to quit ... and it was totally 'my decision.

Kh ♫


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I smoked tobacco, averaged 2 packs every 3 days, for 30 years. Also stopped 'cold turkey', partly because of polyester. Eventually discovered that quitting tobacco caused the enthusiastic inhalation of cannabis smoke to be an insuperable challenge.

I suppose that making presents of polyester garments to your son might be too subtle a maneuver?


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> I smoked tobacco, averaged 2 packs every 3 days, for 30 years. Also stopped 'cold turkey', partly because of polyester. Eventually discovered that quitting tobacco caused the enthusiastic inhalation of cannabis smoke to be an insuperable challenge.
> 
> I suppose that making presents of polyester garments to your son might be too subtle a maneuver?


Either that or spending too much time 'out in the midday sun". I gather, then, that you are still 'enthusiastically inhaling'. There's the ticket!


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Agatha said:


> My son will be 20 in March, he is a second year university student (mech engineering) he smokes ... almost every day. I am having realy hard time accepting this? Should I be worried? Is it normal in the States? Europe?


I'd be seriously concerned if my son smoked anything at all every single day. How can he afford it? Obviously way, way too much money. A problem with Gens X and Y.

There are often things our children do which make us concerned or unhappy. My response with this has been, historically, to show them the door. Then they are forced to grow up quickly, once they realize mum and dad aren't picking up the bill anymore.

It's hard for parents to do this, but once you have it's very liberating. Then you and your wife can move on and enjoy your own life after decades of parenting! And your kids finally get to grow up and respect you for it.

Try to remember we live in the age that psychologists have described as 'parents trying to earn the approval of their children'. I don't want to seem flippant with my answer, but I've read an article in a major metropolitan newspaper today discussing a national Census result in Australia which shows one third of children from 24 to 34 still living at home with their parents - delaying maturity and draining retirement incomes - when, in the past, most people that age would have their own families. Many are afraid of upsetting their children by asking them to contribute, but these seem to belong squarely in the category described by the psychologists in my earlier comment. I think of the words of Shakespeare as a good yardstick..."To thine own self be true". Take the necessary action with your son but do what you believe to be right.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Agatha, I think the testimonials here and elsewhere are clear enough. If he gets hooked, it could be a life-long addiction, that has a good chance of not ending well.

Smoking kills. Smoking alienates. Smoking stinks. Smoking's expensive. Do everything you can, that doesn't sound like infringement or nagging.

Girls often smoke for dieting reasons. Whatever the reason, it isn't cool or sensible. Good luck. :tiphat:


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Either that or spending too much time 'out in the midday sun". I gather, then, that you are still 'enthusiastically inhaling'. There's the ticket!


Only clean air when available. You must have misread, eh?


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Yes, you should be concerned. Unfortunately, kids, even older ones, do some really stupid things, just to show they are adults and independent. As to how common it is, I can only say that in the U.S. it is not as common as it was. I think the general number of smokers is around 20%. It's been a while since I saw the stats.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I'd be seriously concerned if my son smoked anything at all every single day. How can he afford it? Obviously way, way too much money. A problem with Gens X and Y.


Careful not to paint with too broad a brush. There are many very self-sufficient members of those generations 
I dislike as well the attitude of delaying adolescence, the "boomerang" generation. However though part of it is an attitude situation, there is also an issue of the economy, the "working poor" College graduates unable to find jobs in their degree field. though, thankfully, I never moved back in with my parents after college, I was unable to find a job with my bachelor's degree the year between undergrad in grad school. I waitressed and did office work during that year.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Your "..." I believe is a coy blank representing Marijuana. It is a 'soft' drug, not physically addicting: it can be psychologically very addicting, depending upon your son's pathology and personal make-up.

If Marijuana were not still so crazily vilified, it could be talked about like any other habitual 'getting a bit high or mellow.'

I do not advocate smoking it every day, just as the medical profession does not recommend a glass of alcohol each day.

Any of these substances, regularly used, means the person taking them regularly is 'self-medicating' to some degree or another. The person who has the after-work drink as a matter of daily routine, and several more than that on weekends, has exactly the same rationale as the pot-smoker.... "It helps me relax," -- "It takes the edge off a busy day," etc. Try and convince the majority about a socially accepted drug use being as 'negative' as your son's marijuana use... and good luck with that 

Taking anything like alcohol or marijuana on a very regular basis boils down to one thing:
The person ingesting the substance is doing so in order to 'not feel or not think about something.' Better mental health is dealing with whatever those things avoided are, whether a little stress and irritation about work, school, or something more idiosyncratically "personal."

The fact you were so coy about naming the substance shows to some degree the stigma many still put on this relatively harmless drug: it is less completely deletorious than is regular alcohol usage. 

Pointing out a daily 'smoke' to someone has little or no weight, as all around your son, peers are pouring back several beers a day as a matter of course, and in many a respectable family, alcohol is consumed far more regularly than one drink three times per week -- that last is considered 'moderate' drinking by the medical profession (the alcohol lobby would have everyone drink three glasses of wine per day, LOL.)

He will find the smoking habit either of no consequence to his performance, or eventually be 'in his way.' I would only mention to him in a very matter of fact manner that he should monitor himself to notice if it does 'get in his way,' at which time he might want to consider reducing or ceasing his intake.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Only clean air when available. You must have misread, eh?


Whatever made you think otherwise? Clean air, of course (cough).


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Sonata said:


> Careful not to paint with too broad a brush. There are many very self-sufficient members of those generations
> I dislike as well the attitude of delaying adolescence, the "boomerang" generation. However though part of it is an attitude situation, there is also an issue of the economy, the "working poor" College graduates unable to find jobs in their degree field. though, thankfully, I never moved back in with my parents after college, I was unable to find a job with my bachelor's degree the year between undergrad in grad school. I waitressed and did office work during that year.


You are quite right - there are many self-sufficient members of the X and Y gen. But I would say compared to previous generations that X and Y have far more spending power. I remember how broke I was in my 20's and it took until I was 45 before my husband and I had any real disposable cash. So, I was comparing X and Y NOW with previous generations.

Point taken about the "working poor", absolutely. But when I was in my 20's neither myself nor my friends could afford overseas holidays, nor could we have afforded pay TV, internet, mobile phone contracts or very much in the way of alcohol. So, there's a paradox here too. Impoverishment can have another dimension beside the purely economic, IMO.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> You are quite right - there are many self-sufficient members of the X and Y gen. But I would say compared to previous generations that X and Y have far more spending power. I remember how broke I was in my 20's and it took until I was 45 before my husband and I had any real disposable cash. So, I was comparing X and Y NOW with previous generations.
> 
> Point taken about the "working poor", absolutely. But when I was in my 20's neither myself nor my friends could afford overseas holidays, nor could we have afforded pay TV, internet, mobile phone contracts or very much in the way of alcohol. So, there's a paradox here too. Impoverishment can have another dimension beside the purely economic, IMO.


The family next door: father earning a lot designing coal washeries, mum has a part-time job in an office; they have 2 kids (one 20 the other 23) - both children have been given cars when turned 18 (the boy a screaming V8), neither has had to work part time through university (and the boy took 4.5 years to do a 3 year Science degree!). The boy has moved back home - things are too easy and luxurious for him - and we listen to him roar up the street in the V8 or go out on the dirt bike (100 db). I could tell you this same story, different families, 20 times over!! And these young adults have huge spending power.

(Something happened: when I edited my post it started as another comment on a separate page!)


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sonata said:


> Careful not to paint with too broad a brush. There are many very self-sufficient members of those generations
> I dislike as well the attitude of delaying adolescence, the "boomerang" generation. However though part of it is an attitude situation, there is also an issue of the economy, the "working poor" College graduates unable to find jobs in their degree field. though, thankfully, I never moved back in with my parents after college, I was unable to find a job with my bachelor's degree the year between undergrad in grad school. I waitressed and did office work during that year.


In America, a Bachelor's degrees is the equivalent of what a high school diploma got you in the late 1940's, early 1950's.

Since the addition, bit by bit, of more and more non-major 'general education' unit requirements (around 60% of your total undergraduate credit units), the quality of a Bachelor's has become proportionately less -- the holder of said diploma having had less than two years of theoretical study in what their diploma names as their major.

In most European states, their schooling prior college is of a much higher level: in universities there, one still concentrates almost exclusively on major-related courses, the 'general ed' having been taken care in the schooling prior college level. There, a bachelor's means more.

Currently, a Master's degree in the States now equals that four years of concentrated study which used to be the educational value of a Bachelor's degree earned somewhere up until ca. the 1960's. Colleges are not advertising the fact schooling became inflated in the last quarter of the 20th century, giving the bachelor degree a now much deflated value.

Today, a Bachelor's degree is no longer the yardstick placing you in a decent job market.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I agree, and that is part of the problem. I'm not opposed to a "well rounded" education, but I think streamlined fields of study in many cases would be much more ideal. As a medical practitioner, I would have loved to have more health related courses; with fringe subjects focusing more on nutrition, alternative healing (not neccessarily to practice, but to know and understand better other treatments patients may have, ethics, management. etc. Would have benefitted more than "general sociology" for sure.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

PetrB said:


> In America, a Bachelor's degrees is the equivalent of what a high school diploma got you in the late 1940's, early 1950's.
> 
> Since the addition, bit by bit, of more and more non-major 'general education' unit requirements (around 60% of your total undergraduate credit units), the quality of a Bachelor's has become proportionately less -- the holder of said diploma having had less than two years of theoretical study in what their diploma names as their major.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a very real issue. I expect things are worse in the USA than Australia because we still have a vigorous mining industry which pays excellent wages for Bachelor level Geologists (like the boy next door I cited earlier). This isn't a difficult degree to get, either. People are way over educated or poorly under-educated, but is this a reason why increasingly more Gen X and Y spend up big, consume lots and remain at home? The woman over the road? 28 and still living at home. Friends have said "get rid of the double bed and they'll move out immediately".


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Concerning the OP: I´d of course be very, very observant as regards the people he´s hanging out with and tell him if they might be wrong for him - and why.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

PetrB said:


> In America, a Bachelor's degrees is the equivalent of what a high school diploma got you in the late 1940's, early 1950's.
> 
> Since the addition, bit by bit, of more and more non-major 'general education' unit requirements (around 60% of your total undergraduate credit units), the quality of a Bachelor's has become proportionately less -- the holder of said diploma having had less than two years of theoretical study in what their diploma names as their major.
> 
> ...


Good stats here (link), including the one that says more than 30% in the US have a Bachelor's Degree or higher.

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/education/cb12-33.html

Understandably, there's been an overwhelming shift to the sciences. Professional people on average will earn almost twice as much as those with only a Bachelor's Degree.

Re degrees and disciplines, they're like any other commodity--supply and demand. But in many instances, it's an individual's creativity outside of these realms, that will "win the day" for them. Attitude, extra studies, self-marketing, flexibility in almost everything you can imagine, all play a part.

#1 Tip: Strive for self-employment ASAP.

PEE-ESS: So as to not ignore the topic of this thread entirely, I think there are enough studies indicating that higher education helps combat the habit of smoking. So, maybe Agatha's son is on the right track, and his smoking is only temporary. But, do not rely and wait on that theory, Agatha and others. Be proactive. :tiphat:


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

To answer your question, you can be worried but it won't make any difference, but of course you still will. The problem with smoking is it's highly addictive and if you like it will be one of the hardest things to give up in your life, ever. You ask, is it normal in the States? or in Europe? Well, it was, but it's becoming not normal to smoke as it has become obvious through hard medical evidence that smoking will probably kill you if it becomes a life long habit.
Speaking for myself, I'm the medical profession's nightmare, as I'm one of those who actually loves smoking, and now has become a thirty year relationship - it has become so part of me that sometimes I feel I live to smoke. However, I go through long periods of non - smoking, and now have come to the conclusion that I have to completey stop or develope some horrific disease or simply keel over. Smoking is bad and smoking is insane, but addiction is illogical and that is that. Someone said that smoking in years to come will be viewed the same as peopel taking snuff in the 18th century - a bizarre habit!
The major thing going for your son is his age, and I'm sure his is a passing phrase, many young people go through this type of thing, but one thing's for sure, if he stops it will be the best thing he ever does for his health and those around him.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Agatha said:


> My son will be 20 in March, he is a second year university student (mech engineering) he smokes ... almost every day. I am having realy hard time accepting this? Should I be worried? Is it normal in the States? Europe?


Is it normal....statistically defined, I guess it has been, although polarisation of the medical field and the hedonists continue to redefine this norm.

Hmmm. A double whammy .... he smokes cigarettes, and he smokes cannabis too 

At this rate, you might be better taking him back to the hospital and demand a refund.

The Freudian description of a smoker sucking on a *** isn't very appealing; neither is the staining of teeth. Perhaps worse, being a flute player, I'm very sensitive to the quality of air and need a large lung capacity to play long phrases on the alto Boehm flute.

A Boehm flute is on average around 25mm - 26mm diameter and between 80cm - 90cm long. Mine is 90cm long, which means around 250cubic centimetres to be filled continuously. To hold a phrase for 10 seconds means sustaining this air column like a water pipe flowing - ain't going to happen if I'm trying to kill my lungs with cigarette tar and ash in between.

But that's not the reason why I don't smoke. It makes my skin itch; my eyes water, my head skin, and my right hand reach for the table knife.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Krummhorn said:


> I was 19 when I started ... quit when I was 56 ... took me a long time to realize how stupid it was for me ... *but I'm not in any worse health for it*, either ... but I'm happy with my decision to quit ... and it was totally 'my decision.
> 
> Kh ♫


I doubt that.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Smoking is a disgusting habit. Period.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

How often do I smoke Cigars - as often as possible - refer below as to why.....

1. Cigar smoking is a pleasure that needs to be further encouraged in a civilised society 
2. If it was good enough for the ancients it good enough for me
3. Smoking cigars is human 
4. Smoking cigars is freedom
5.Good for Poker games
6.Important “Me” time
7.To celebrate a raise, promotion, or new job
8.Because your Mother-in-Law hates it
9.Your whiskey was lonely
10.To help you relax
11.Because the cigar industry is not regulated by the FDA
12.Because Winston Churchill smoked them
13.Because it makes you feel rich and powerful
14.To celebrate being in good company
15.Because you could have a worse vice
16.Because you love the taste
17.You’re about to become a proud parent
18.You just ate a giant feast
19.You just got hitched
20.It’s the weekend
21.Because you enjoy the finer things in life
22.Because Jack Nicholson smokes them
22.Because Rumpole of the Bailey smokes them
23.And George Burns smoked them (and lived to be 100)
24.Because you can!
Smoking cigars may not be totally good for the health, but how many commonplace practices are? Fast food? Alcohol? Even driving to the grocery store has a comparable mortality rate. So i say light up another cigar, and smoke it to the inherent uniqueness of the human race.

However, smoke cigarettes now that dangerous and foul........


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Although I don't smoke cigarettes anymore, I'd much rather smoke them than cigars.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

How about 20 small cigars ??


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> How often do I smoke Cigars - as often as possible - refer below as to why.....
> 
> 1. Cigar smoking is a pleasure that needs to be further encouraged in a civilised society
> 2. If it was good enough for the ancients it good enough for me
> ...


And lets not forget Mark Twain, one of my favorite authors! :cheers: Also, unlike cigarettes, one does not have to inhale in order to get some enjoyment from them.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Concerning the OP: I´d of course be very, very observant as regards the people he´s hanging out with and tell him if they might be wrong for him - and why.


Oops - just discovered that my post went to the wrong thread, and not this other one http://www.talkclassical.com/23550-what-do-you-think.html. I guess that my comment could count as a quite funny piece of irony here - but it wasn´t really intended as such .


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