# Most underrated.....



## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

Here's a thread to liszt anything (composer, symphony, concerto, performer or conductor) etc. that you feel is underrated. Include your reasons for your opinion.


----------



## tutto (Apr 11, 2007)

hans roth?
mahler`s friend, his only simphony was written before gustav wrote one and it`s full of "mahler`s" matherial


----------



## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

While I can appreciate the _spirit_ behind this thread, I cannot bring myself to answer the question.

You see, if I were to name a composer I fealt was _underrated_, I would have to see a list of composers who were _rated_ in some way relative to one-another. I would then express my opinion as to why composer _x_ should be _rated_ higher than he is, on that given list...

I know, I am a huge party-pooper and by no means am I criticizing ChamberNut's idea, but I do urge people to be aware that as ChamberNut says...



> Include your reasons for your opinion...


... and be aware that in terms of _ratings_ and _underratedness_, it is just an opinion.


----------



## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

Kurkikohtaus said:


> While I can appreciate the _spirit_ behind this thread, I cannot bring myself to answer the question.
> 
> You see, if I were to name a composer I fealt was _underrated_, I would have to see a list of composers who were _rated_ in some way relative to one-another. I would then express my opinion as to why composer _x_ should be _rated_ higher than he is, on that given list...
> 
> ...


Kurk.

If I posted a list of rated composers referenced from a book, would that help?

**********

Here's my opinion - Classical Music is highly underrated.  I have no proof to back that up, but I'm sure many people share this thought.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

If the composer's works only appear on Naxos or [insert you favourite underrated label], (s)he is underrated.


----------



## tutto (Apr 11, 2007)

there is a boycoot on some composers, sometimes


----------



## alan sheffield (Oct 26, 2007)

*Malcolm Arnold*

Arnold is underrated because superficially he is easy to characterise as almost a light music composer. However, beneath the surface there is lots to "go at". And he writes such good tunes so sneered at by some of the modern critics. Try any of his symphonies especially 2nd and 5th. Try keeping a straight face in 3rd movement of number 5. But the depth of emotion in 2nd movement and at the very end is something else, IMO.


----------



## Beethoven (Oct 19, 2007)

Moonlight Sonata


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

alan sheffield said:


> Arnold is underrated because superficially he is easy to characterise as almost a light music composer. However, beneath the surface there is lots to "go at". And he writes such good tunes so sneered at by some of the modern critics. Try any of his symphonies especially 2nd and 5th. Try keeping a straight face in 3rd movement of number 5. But the depth of emotion in 2nd movement and at the very end is something else, IMO.


I agree. He seems to be better known for his brass band work, but, frankly, I think his symphonies are better.


----------



## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Eric683 said:


> I agree. He seems to be better known for his brass band work, but, frankly, I think his symphonies are better.


I have the nine symphonies (from Naxos) but I'm just piling them up. I'll try to give them a first listen today.


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Manuel said:


> I have the nine symphonies (from Naxos) but I'm just piling them up. I'll try to give them a first listen today.


Here's what to focus on: 2, 3, 5, 6, and 8.


----------



## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

Beethoven said:


> Moonlight Sonata


The *Moonlight Sonata* isn't underrated, it is simply another victim of the recording industry, where guarantee of its commercial succes produces many, many very bad recordings.


----------



## Hexameron (Oct 7, 2006)

Obviously what I have to say is all opinion and I'm taking the word "underrated" and applying it broadly to any composer or work that is not considered mainstream. Exactly what is mainstream today is hard to determine, though let's say Chopin's Op. 10 and Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No. 2 certainly are.

*Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)*

For once, I'd like someone to recognize the name Rubinstein without thinking of the famous polish pianist. Anton Rubinstein's music, to me, is as appealing as Tchaikovsky's and Brahms'. His melodies are outstanding, his sense of drama is strong, and he knows how to write good old decent Romantic music.

Consider the five piano concerti, which I think deserve a place back in the repertoire. I'd prefer the First and Fourth over Grieg's or Tchaikovsky's First any day. And the Fifth is an epic work that is amazing both for its wealth and breadth of content. Really, Rubinstein's piano concerti are stunning concert works that combine the bravura of Liszt and the lyricism of Brahms. His four Romantic piano sonatas are also excellent, though not groundbreaking. But does everything have to be? These sonatas are bursting with appealing ideas, diverse emotional expressions and technical challenges. The music is certainly derivative, as Rubinstein was a true cosmopolitan, but his talent for arousing drama and fashioning sonata form is undeniable. His two large-scale piano works, the colossal Theme and Variations Op. 88 and the imaginative Fantaisie Op. 77 should not be overlooked either. Indeed, I think Op. 88 is one of the gems of the early Russian piano repertoire.

His symphonies are also interesting examples of Romantic extravagance and classical form. His "Ocean" symphony, for example is a 7-movement work lasting well over an hour and the "Dramatic" and "Eroica" symphonies are magnificent, albeit minor symphonic pieces that are simply thrilling to hear. He might not be Brahms, but he can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Mendelssohn and Glazunov.

While Rubinstein's reputation as a composer seems to rest on his miniatures, like the ridiculously popular "Melody in F," I'm less enamored with them. I think he worked better in the larger forms, though his six concert etudes can quench my thirst for pianistic virtuosity. I have yet to hear his chamber music or his opera, The Demon, but I wouldn't doubt that they are probably rewarding, as much as his piano and orchestral works have been.


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Kurkikohtaus said:


> The *Moonlight Sonata* isn't underrated, it is simply another victim of the recording industry, where guarantee of its commercial succes produces many, many very bad recordings.


Just like Beethoven 5, just to mention one (This could actually start a new thread)


----------



## Morigan (Oct 16, 2006)

Dear Hexameron, you have me intrigued over Rubinstein now. I've always only remembered him as the guy who flamed and demolished Tchaikovsky's First P.C. on first hearing.

I'll check out the works you've mentioned on Naxos.


----------



## Hexameron (Oct 7, 2006)

Morigan - I think you're thinking of Anton's brother, Nikolai Rubinstein who didn't like Tchaikovsky's First PC (he later changed his mind and championed the work).

Definitely check out the Marco Polo label for the Rubinstein recordings. While the particular recordings of the piano concerti with Joseph Banowetz are out of print, you can still buy them used (and cheap) on Amazon.


----------



## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Morigan said:


> Dear Hexameron, you have me intrigued over Rubinstein now. I've always only remembered him as the guy who flamed and demolished Tchaikovsky's First P.C. on first hearing.
> 
> I'll check out the works you've mentioned on Naxos.


For me he is the guy that wrote an awful fifth piano concerto, and a boring Fantasy Op. 84. I kind of like his fourth piano concerto, though; but perhaps that's just Josef Hoffman merit.

Haven't heard his symphonies yet. (Rubinstein's, not Hoffman's)


----------



## oisfetz (Dec 11, 2006)

You can try his SQ, 2 cello concertos, violin concerto, or viola sonata.


----------



## Hexameron (Oct 7, 2006)

Manuel said:


> For me he is the guy that wrote an awful fifth piano concerto, and a boring Fantasy Op. 84. I kind of like his fourth piano concerto, though; but perhaps that's just Josef Hoffman merit.
> 
> Haven't heard his symphonies yet. (Rubinstein's, not Hoffman's)


There are dozens of piano concerti in manuscript rotting away and plenty that have been recorded which might deserve the label "awful." Rubinstein's 5th PC is long, but "awful"? I never came to that conclusion even on a first hearing. The 20 minute first movement has all the elements of a good piano concerto; one of the recurring passages involving sledge-hammer sequences of chords surely influenced Tchaikovsky in writing his own First.

Like any piece of art, it doesn't touch everyone, and I respect that. But I think the word "awful" is unfair. I can't speak for his Fantasy Op. 84, but regardless of Manuel's dismissive attitude towards Rubinstein, I encourage everyone to at least sample the piano concerti and especially the Theme and Variations Op. 88.


----------

