# Terry Riley (1935-)



## millionrainbows

I'm listening to Terry Riley's _The Harp of New Albion_ (Celestial Harmonies 2-CD). This is a set of solo piano improvisations played by Riley himself on a Bosendörfer Imperial Grand tuned to La Monte Young's "just" intonation scheme. Since Young's _The Well-Tuned Piano _(Grammavision 5-CD) is out of print, this is a good alternative to hear this tuning.

Riley says "My answer to the often asked question, "Why retune the piano in the first place?" would have to be, that anyone who spends a large part of their music practice singing and playing modes in relation to a fixed constant, there increases a desire to sound these tones at places of greatest resonance and agreement and an attachment develops to the different colors produced from a variety of intervals of diverse sizes. A different tuning system will inevitably produce a different kind of music. _The Harp of New Albion_ is tuned to an often used system which combines 3/2 fifths with 5/4 thirds to produce all the intervals. This tuning, which is called a 5-limit because the fifth harmonic is the highest prime, still produces an amazing 35 distinct ratios from the twelve notes of the octave."

The tuning uses C# as its "pole star," as follows:

Note Interval Ratio from C# or "zero"
C#......1/1
D........16/15
D#......9/8
E........6/5
E#......5/4
F#......4/3
G.......64/45
G#.....3/2
A.......8/5
A#.....5/3
B.......16/9
B#......15/8
C#.....2/1 (octave)

For those of you who may have an electronic piano with access to the tuning-tables, or wish to retune a piano using an electronic tuner, these ratios converted into cents would be:

Note In cents from zero (approximate)
C#......zero
D........111.7 cents
D#......203.9 cents
E........315.6 cents
E#......386.3 cents
F#......498.0 cents
G........609.8 cents
G#......701.955
A........813.7 cents
A#......884.4 cents
B........996.1 cents
B#......1088.3 cents
C#......1200 cents (octave)


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## niv

any youtube link with such a tuning?


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## millionrainbows

niv said:


> any youtube link with such a tuning?


Such incentive! It's good to see someone really put forth some effort into a YouTube search in order to hear new music. 
*
Just joking!...*After an _extensive_ 30-second search, here is a link for you _(don't sprain your finger when clicking on it)._

Be patient, and listen to the whole clip if you want to hear the resonance effect, as Riley is an improvisor who gets "warmed up" over a period of time.

This one is in D, so from the tables above, you can see that *D* is 16/15, which produces a nice resonant just fifth with *A *at 8/5. (16÷8=*2*, 15÷5=*3*, producing a 2/3 or 3/2 fifth).


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## niv

Of course, I could have searched it myself, but, given I know nothing about the subject, and you seem knowledgeable, I assumed you could be able to provide a better link than whatever I could have searched for.

But I'm holding no grudges, since you actually provided a link . Currently listening! It does sound different, I gotta tell you

edit: this is ******* awesome!

edit 2: This is also interesting, and sounds different, more minor and dissonant:


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## millionrainbows

niv said:


> Of course, I could have searched it myself, but, given I know nothing about the subject, and you seem knowledgeable, I assumed you could be able to provide a better link than whatever I could have searched for.
> 
> But I'm holding no grudges, since you actually provided a link . Currently listening! It does sound different, I gotta tell you
> 
> edit: this is ******* awesome!
> 
> edit 2: This is also interesting, and sounds different, more minor and dissonant...


That's _Lands End,_ the last track on CD2. According to the booklet, it's in B, so let's do a little basic arithmetic and see how 3/2s and 5/4s can be produced.

B is 16/9. The fifth of B is F#, which is 4/3. 9÷3=*3*, and 16÷4=*4*; that's a *4/3*, or a fourth, which is an inverted fifth.

B to D# is our major third. Again, B is 16/9, and D# is 9/8. We're looking for our 4/5 major third. It's somewhere in there. Let's see...16+9=*25,* our factor of* 5*; and 16÷4=*4*, giving us our *4/5* factors.


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## PetrB

Mr. M.R.
Thank you for the Riley link. I've only heard that, being more than 'economically dependent' upon Youtube for many of the riches to be found there.

To add to this fest of pleasantry of those finer hairs atingle, *La Monte Young ~ The Well-Tuned Piano* 1/5 through 5/5
(1964/1973/1981/Present... an ongoing work.) 
One Youtube commenter, somewhere down the line on one of these links, said that whatever one thinks of it, or however one listens, it is a pleasant sound to have 'in the air in the room.' 
Each links is ca. 100 minutes long....


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## millionrainbows

PetrB said:


> Mr. M.R.
> Thank you for the Riley link. I've only heard that, being more than 'economically dependent' upon Youtube for many of the riches to be found there.
> 
> To add to this fest of pleasantry of those finer hairs atingle, *La Monte Young ~ The Well-Tuned Piano* 1/5 through 5/5
> (1964/1973/1981/Present... an ongoing work.)


I saw that La Monte Young 5-CD set in a record store in Dallas, for $75 dollars. I shoulda bought it. Now it's going for over $700.

Actually, I think listeners will find Terry Riley much more user-friendly than the mathematical singularity of Young...

One key to understanding Riley is to get his Keyboard Studies, either in score or on CD. These "codify" his signature patterns which he uses in his improvisations. These are patterns of varying lengths, from 2 to 9 units long, which are played separately by each hand.


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## PetrB

millionrainbows said:


> I saw that La Monte Young 5-CD set in a record store in Dallas, for $75 dollars. I shoulda bought it. Now it's going for over $700.


Sigh, whatever the traffic will bear... and 'collectors,' damn'em.

On the other side of that coin, buy enough, cannily and at the right time, and you have a future pension / slush fund in a small box 

P.s. whether real estate or CD's....


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## mmsbls

I just listened to the first track, "The New Albion Chorale", and the last track, "Land's End" on _The Harp of New Albion_. "The New Albion Chorale" is quite beautiful, and I found "Land's End" to be rather ethereal. I have not listened to much of Riley's music for some reason (not sure exactly why).

Thanks for the suggestion.


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## millionrainbows

Other Riley *solo piano* works of note:

_Keyboard Studies:_ Fabrizio Ottaviucci, piano (Stradivarius). This "codifies" Riley's hand-patterns, which vary from 2 to 9 notes, different in each hand, and constantly changing. The guy must have two brains.
_
The Lisbon Concert_ (New Albion): A little-mentioned fact is that La Monte Young and Terry Riley, while most actively involved in the New York conceptual art scene of the late 60s-early 70s, were both sax players and improvisors heavily involved in modern jazz. Riley, of course, played keyboards as well. _The Lisbon Concert_ features Riley on a normally-tuned piano, doing some of his very jazzy piano pieces. He's quite good, and this is not quite jazz...it's more repetitive in places. This is also a good key to appreciating what he's doing on the 2-CD French release _The Persian Surgery Dervishes _on electric keyboards and digital echo.

Both of these Amazon listings include sound samples.


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## PetrB

Ex.the Lisbon Concert, _Negro Hall_


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## millionrainbows

Riley has written string quartet music as well, and has a close association with The Kronos Quartet. This morning I listened to _Cadenza On The Night Plain_ (Rykodisc 1988), a collection of four works for string quartet, which would serve as a good introduction to those traditionalists new to Riley who might be alienated by Riley's electric recordings. This is Kronos, playing very warmly & sweetly.

1. _Sunrise Of The Planetary Dream Collector _(10:16). A piece using "modules" similar to In C, but using longer 14-beat fragments in the Dorian mode. Each performer is permitted to return to a module after playing a different one. Incidentally, the Dorian mode is the symmetrical division of our 12-note scale, its interval structure being (in semitones) 2-1-2-2-2-1-2. This would facilitate retrogrades, and even fingering patterns.

2. _G Song_ (11:03). A beautuifully warm piece, using a jazzy G minor progression with an altered dominant chord. This is not as repetitive as many of Riley's works.

3. _Mythic Birds Waltz _(16:08). With a ragtime feel, and shifting meters, this is a piece of contrasts, also not repetitive.

4. _Cadenza On The Night Plain_ (37:10). A long piece, with thirteen contrasting sections. Each instrument is given a cadenza, and these are quite interesting.The sections are not indexed separately, so here is my breakdown, which will help in grasping the sections:

• Introduction - 00:00
• Cadenza: Violin I - 3:12
•Where Was Wisom When We Went West? - 6:31
• Cadenza: Viola - 9:50
• March Of The Old Timers Reefer Division - 12:05
• The Old Timers Throw A Spring Festival - 12:38
• Marching Off To More Serious Matters - 13:22
• Cadenza: Violin II - 15:27
• Tuning To Rolling Thunder - 17:28
• The Night Cry Of Black Buffalo Woman - 20:30
• Cadenza: Cello - 23:05
• Gathering Of The Spiral Clan - 27:56
• Captain Jack Has The Last Word - 32:25


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> For those of you who may have an electronic piano with access to the tuning-tables, or wish to retune a piano using an electronic tuner, these ratios converted into cents would be:
> 
> Note In cents from zero (approximate)
> C#......zero
> D........111.7 cents
> D#......203.9 cents
> E........315.6 cents
> E#......386.3 cents
> F#......498.0 cents
> G........609.8 cents
> G#......701.955
> A........813.7 cents
> A#......884.4 cents
> B........996.1 cents
> B#......1088.3 cents
> C#......1200 cents (octave)


This looks suspiciously familiar, resembling a post I made a while back that there was nothing inevitable about the 'progress' of music, and that 'tuning' could have gone in any direction, yielding a different music.


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## millionrainbows

MacLeod said:


> This looks suspiciously familiar, resembling a post I made a while back that there was nothing inevitable about the 'progress' of music, and that 'tuning' could have gone in any direction, yielding a different music.


McLeod, hmmmm, let me see...I'll get my list...ah, yes, McLeod! There you are, right next to KennOC!

Your point? I'm not sure I get your point.

You'll have to speak up, and do a little more typing. I like facts better than guessing-games.


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> McLeod, hmmmm, let me see...I'll get my list...ah, yes, McLeod! There you are, right next to KennOC!
> 
> Your point? I'm not sure I get your point.
> 
> You'll have to speak up, and do a little more typing. I like facts better than guessing-games.


I did all the typing I needed a little while back...

http://www.talkclassical.com/25112-atonal-3.html#post450758


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## millionrainbows

MacLeod said:


> I did all the typing I needed a little while back...
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/25112-atonal-3.html#post450758


Tsk, tsk...not counting the link, that's only eleven words...


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## mensch

millionrainbows said:


> Riley has written string quartet music as well, and has a close association with The Kronos Quartet. This morning I listened to _Cadenza On The Night Plain_ (Rykodisc 1988), a collection of four works for string quartet, which would serve as a good introduction to those traditionalists new to Riley who might be alienated by Riley's electric recordings. This is Kronos, playing very warmly & sweetly.


Don't forget "Salome Dances for Peace" a massive piece for string quartet, also written for Kronos in the late 1980s. I always thought of it as the counterpart to "The Harp of New Albion", maybe not in a technical sense, but it has those same spacious qualities. I'm still waiting for a recording of "Sun Rings", a more recent work.

Another recording I really enjoy is "Atlantis Nath", especially his experiments with voice drones ("Crucifixion Voice" and the drones with recitative in the closing "The Crucifixion of My Humble Self") and his singing on "Emerald Runner".


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## PetrB

millionrainbows said:


> Tsk, tsk...not counting the link, that's only eleven words...


'Collegiality' just one word, to the man's point, I believe.


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## millionrainbows

Yeah, I've got Atlantis Nath. There's also a French soundtrack Les Yeux Fermés & Lifespan, and The Last Camel In Paris (1978), both on the Elision Fields label.


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## PetrB

Being a fan, I also recommend this Riley work commissioned by the Kronos Quartet: 
Riley's _Requiem for Adam_, for string quartet and prepared tape.

Completely void of the now expected conventions of 'mourning / grieving' music from the European tradition, it does convey quite directly some of the state of grief, without any of what may now be considered highly melodramatic effects as found in the European tradition of 'requiem.'

A 'new kind' of requiem, then, and imo, wholly effective.


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## millionrainbows

I noticed a new (?) release by Terry Riley on the* Tzadik *label. It's an old recording, retained in his archives until now, of him improvising for 2 hours on a Korg Triton keyboard tuned to just intonation. Looks interesting, but beyond my budget for now.


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## ptr

millionrainbows said:


> I noticed a new (?) release by Terry Riley on the* Tzadik *label. It's an old recording, retained in his archives until now, of him improvising for 2 hours on a Korg Triton keyboard tuned to just intonation. Looks interesting, but beyond my budget for now.


From 2012 I think if it is the work called *"Aleph"*? Haven't listened to it since I got the disc, did not leave any strong memories.. Will have to return to it and re-listen!

/ptr


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## millionrainbows

ptr said:


> From 2012 I think if it is the work called *"Aleph"*? Haven't listened to it since I got the disc, did not leave any strong memories.. Will have to return to it and re-listen!
> 
> /ptr


Yes, that's the one, Ptr. It is probably similar to his other electric keyboard improvised concert performances, like Sri Camel (studio), Descending Persian Surgery Dervishes, and The Ten Voices of the Two Prophets (?), a play on the "Prophet" synthesizers used in its realization.

These are an interesting category of Riley. Other categories include: works for string quartets & ensembles; his acoustic piano concerts; his saxophone improvs; and various studio works and soundtracks, which contain elements of all these.


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## ptr

Listened to the first part of Alpeh earlier today on headphones, but I did not "enjoy" it because the sound is way to close for my liking! (made me loose sight of the music!) ... I'll give it another shot when I'm back in front of my speakers!

/ptr


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## millionrainbows

I'm interested in the Keyboard Studies now. I want to get the score. Compared to Philip Glass' solo piano works, Riley seems less prone to create "progressions," but seems more static harmonically, which I approve of. Even though Glass is not really tonal, his music seems to contain faint vestiges of harmonic progression. Riley seems more truly mono-tonic, like Eastern music.


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## millionrainbows




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## sjorstakovitsj

I like his *A Rainbow in Curved Air*, especially *Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band*. It sounds like psychedelic Hindu music.


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## millionrainbows

Yeah, I hear lots of connection to this, played on the shenai:


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## millionrainbows

http://terryriley.net/sheetmusic.htm


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## millionrainbows

Ahhh,,,...achingly beautiful!


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## millionrainbows

The Terry Riley Piano Book is what I must get! Beautifully engraved, and it has Keyboard Studies 1&2, which in themselves are a treasure trove of possibilities which can be expanded on.

"~Featuring an extensive foreword by Terry Riley himself, this is not just a collection of sheet music, it's almost a work of art: beautifully engraved music along with words by a genius composer. Includes introductory performance notes for each piece by pianist Sarah Cahill. These expound the techniques, skills and experience necessary to master each piece. 12 selections including: Keyboard Study Nos. 1 and 2, Fandango on the Heaven Ladder, The Philosopher's Hand, The Walrus in Memoriam, and more."

~


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## isorhythm

How do we feel about this version of _In C_? Groovy, or unforgivable kitsch?






I have to admit, I kinda like it.


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## millionrainbows

If yuou can tolerate Riley's voice, you're a hard core fan. BTW, I didn't know he could throat-sing like that.

Try the remastered "Carnegie Hall" edition of the original Columbia Masterworks CD. It sounds so good, it's like listening to a new recording. It truly is the biggest difference I have ever heard between an old and a new mastering job.

~


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## isorhythm

I bought that for my parents for Christmas a couple years ago. They liked it.

I believe the vocalist on the version I posted is this Raoul Dugay fellow, not Riley, though I only know it from Spotify/YouTube and have never seen the notes.

The tabla/sitar business is questionable. But...I like it.


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## seven four

Shri Camel is where I got my start...I saw a review in the NY Times and went out and bought a copy.


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## SilverSurfer

I began with the first Lp ever with "In C", isn't it the more logical beginning, as a suggestion from the composer himself (first, the C)? :lol:


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## tortkis

Terry Riley and Don Cherry - Live Köln (1975)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfcXc1A1iB87tIeuInceRFE_h_UeDn3iD

Cherry plays beautifully over Riley's hypnotic sounds.


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## seven four

tortkis said:


> Terry Riley and Don Cherry - Live Köln (1975)
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfcXc1A1iB87tIeuInceRFE_h_UeDn3iD
> 
> Cherry plays beautifully over Riley's hypnotic sounds.


That would have been a great album. :tiphat:


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## tortkis

seven four said:


> That would have been a great album. :tiphat:


I listened to this again today. It's really a great, powerful performance. If there were to be an official release including the complete performance in good sounds, I would definitely buy it. According to discogs, there was an unofficial vinyl release, but it seems to be a poor copy of mp3.


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## seven four

tortkis said:


> I listened to this again today. It's really a great, powerful performance. If there were to be an official release including the complete performance in good sounds, I would definitely buy it. According to discogs, there was an unofficial vinyl release, but it seems to be a poor copy of mp3.


Boot of a radio broadcast, it's been around for years.


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## tortkis

The 3 Generations Trio (i dischi di angelica, 2016)










Camargue Voices, MissiGono (part 3), G Song, Ebony Horns, LLanto (from Cantos Desiertos), Shri Camel (revisited)

Terry Riley (synthesizer, piano, voice, voice harmonizer), Gyan Riley (electric guitar, acoustic guitar), Tracy Silverman (6-string electric violin, violin)

Recorded 2013. This is very smooth, peaceful, and beautiful. Riley's recent recordings are more accessible and less mysterious compared with the early ones, but I like them very much. On this album, his wonderful voice can be heard a lot.


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## tortkis

Terry Riley has been living in Japan since the pandemic began. He has been actively performing and teaching there.

Riley with Sara Cahill and Mamoru Fujieda, in Yamanashi, Japan, November 17, 2022










https://twitter.com/TerryRiley_info?s=20&t=Ukr3KOItM3JvR5fKylLvXw


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