# Contemporary Music (21st-Century) Listening - LOGISTICS THREAD



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

This is an invitation to participate and give input on a listening thread. The focus of the thread will be LISTENING TO NEW MUSIC, specifically music composed in roughly the last 20 years. I hope to make this listening experience a little different than the 1980-2000 Listening Group by making it more concise with a little more freedom for people to tune in and tune out when they want.

I propose about 15-20 weeks worth of weekly listening. *Each week one person will submit a "concert" of about 30-50 minutes worth of music. This could, for example, be 3 small works (about 10 minutes each), 2 medium works (about 20 minutes each), or 1 large work (about 40-50 minutes). Knowing that some works are even longer, periodically we will dedicate time for XL works (50+ minutes). These XL works will be selected by group consensus.*

If you would like to sign up for a week (below), list your name, your musical program (include dates if possible) or put "TBD" (to be determined). Only sign up for one slot. Then copy and paste the updated list. Please note that this thread is not intended to promote your own music. Also please only list works that can be reasonably heard through YouTube or through common music streaming services.

On your assigned date please post a link to recordings and give any information you would like on the piece(s).

November 22: (20centrfuge) Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [30], + 1 small work TBD
November 29
December 6
December 13
December 20
December 27: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION
January 3
January 10
January 17
January 24
January 31
February 7
February 14
February 21
February 28: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION
March 7
March 14
March 21
March 28


----------



## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

I might consider to participate, depending on the first choices of pieces.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I plan to do Unsuk Chin's Cello Concerto and one other short work TBD


----------



## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

How about Maja Ratkje's first string quartet (written in 2014, I believe) and Ole Henrik Moe's string quartet/quintet "Vent litt lenger" (written in 2006)? Clocking in at 49 minutes.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Sounds perfect Ravn!


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I'll have to think about my submission(s) for a day or so, but I look forward to what others put forth. There's been some great music the last 20 years and even more diversity than from the 1980-2000 time period.

Also, I don't think we should permit the two works from the 1980-2000 group that were partially written after 2000:

Benjamin: Palimpsests
Rihm: Jagden und Formen


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Bad timing for me. I'm going to take a break from Contemporary Music (at least the dissonant type) for a while. Maybe the last thread drained my enthusiasm for it.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

What do we do about accessibility - can we assume everyone has Spotify? Unless people can get it easily, very easily, these sort of listening things fall flat.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I'm in. Not sure what I'd select, yet, but I've enjoyed these threads muchly. If I need to pick a date, I'll take Dec. 6. Willing to be flexble.

November 22: (20centrfuge) Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [30], + 1 small work TBD
November 29
December 6: (Knorf) TBD but something awesome
December 13
December 20
December 27: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION
January 3
January 10
January 17
January 24
January 31
February 7
February 14
February 21
February 28: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION
March 7
March 14
March 21
March 28

P.S. I love the Unsuk Chin selection!


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Mandryka said:


> What do we do about accessibility - can we assume everyone has Spotify? Unless people can get it easily, very easily, these sort of listening things fall flat.


What does everyone think? Please let us know your preferences.

With new music it can get difficult to find ANY recordings, but personally I am generally satisfied with YouTube's offerings. I also have a Spotify subscription and I'm willing to buy recordings if those two sources don't pan out.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

*I cut it to 15 weeks. We can always add more. So far....*

November 22: (20centrfuge) Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28], Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn) Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10], Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf) TBD but something awesome

December 13:

December 20:

December 27: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION: feel free to nominate works

January 3:

January 10:

January 17:

January 24:

January 31:

February 7: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION: feel free to nominate works

February 14:

February 21:

February 28:


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

I'm in. I'll put something together and get back.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Here are my selections:

TBD
Elliott Carter: Horn Concerto
John Adams: _Guide to Strange Places_

Mulling over one or two options for the first selection.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

November 22: (20centrfuge) Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28], Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn) Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10], Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf) TBD, Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11], Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13:

December 20:

December 27-January 9: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate works)

January 10:

January 17:

January 24:

January 31:

February 7:


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I'll do December 13th, and my selections will probably be:

TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

Also, if not enough people sign up for a slot, I'd be willing to do another week towards the end (I couldn't do them back-to-back), and I'd probably select:

Hugues Dufourt: L'Afrique d'après Tiepolo, for piano and ensemble (2005) [25]
Hugues Dufourt: L'Asie d'après Tiepolo, for ensemble (2008-2009) [19:30]


----------



## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

January 10:
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

Very excited to see what everyone else picks


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

For the XL work, I'd like to nominate Olga Neuwirth's opera Lost Highway, based on the David Lynch film of the same name [2h 10min, but it's in English]


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

*CURRENT PROGRAM. FEEL FREE TO EDIT YOUR ENTRIES AND NOMINATE AN XL WORK.*

November 22: (20centrfuge) 
Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn) 
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf) 
TBD
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv) 
TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

December 20: (gregorx) 
TBD

December 27-January 9: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate a work)
Current nominations:
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17:

January 24:

January 31:

February 7:

_we can add more weeks if there is enough interest_


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

calvinpv said:


> For the XL work, I'd like to nominate Olga Neuwirth's opera Lost Highway, based on the David Lynch film of the same name [2h 10min, but it's in English]


I love this choice. I don't know the piece but I was literally going to nominate it myself. The recording by the Kairos label is 93 minutes long. Are you aware of other recordings or videos of it?

Saunders: Yes (2016/17) is about 76 minutes long. "Yes, a spatial performance for soprano, 19 soloists and conductor (2016/17) texts from the final chapter of "Ulysses", Molly Bloom, by James Joyce"


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

calvinpv said:


> Also, if not enough people sign up for a slot, I'd be willing to do another week towards the end (I couldn't do them back-to-back), and I'd probably select:
> 
> Hugues Dufourt: L'Afrique d'après Tiepolo, for piano and ensemble (2005) [25]
> Hugues Dufourt: L'Asie d'après Tiepolo, for ensemble (2008-2009) [19:30]


Let's play it by ear. If we need to have everyone do a second week, we'll do it. Or we could just start a "Round 2" after anyone that wants to participate does so in Round 1. Things are finally seeming to gain some traction.

I'm also hesitant to program out too many weeks in advance because some of the enthusiasm is generated by PROGRAMMING MUSIC and if we program too far in advance then enthusiasm can lag. But I am open to other thoughts!


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> I love this choice. I don't know the piece but I was literally going to nominate it myself. The recording by the Kairos label is 93 minutes long. Are you aware of other recordings or videos of it?
> 
> Saunders: Yes (2016/17) is about 76 minutes long. "Yes, a spatial performance for soprano, 19 soloists and conductor (2016/17) texts from the final chapter of "Ulysses", Molly Bloom, by James Joyce"


You're right it's 93 minutes long. I saw 1:33:10 on the Kairos website, and my mind told me 133 minutes (or roughly 2h 10min).


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

*I'll add myself to January 17.*

CURRENT PROGRAM. FEEL FREE TO EDIT YOUR ENTRIES AND NOMINATE AN XL WORK.

November 22: (20centrfuge)
Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn)
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf)
TBD
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv)
TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

December 20: (gregorx)
TBD

December 27-January 9: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate a work)
Current nominations:
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17: (Simon Moon)
*Augusta Read Thomas - "Prisms of Light" (2014) (22:28)
Erkki-Sven Tüür - Violin Concerto No. 2, "Angel's Share" (2017/2018)*(24:00)

January 24:

January 31:

February 7:


----------



## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Here are my selections, if I can be forgiven for going a few minutes over the limit.

CURRENT PROGRAM. FEEL FREE TO EDIT YOUR ENTRIES AND NOMINATE AN XL WORK.

November 22: (20centrfuge)
Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn)
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf)
TBD
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv)
TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

December 20: (gregorx)
TBD

December 27-January 9: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate a work)
Current nominations:
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17: (Simon Moon)
Augusta Read Thomas - "Prisms of Light" (2014) (22:28)
Erkki-Sven Tüür - Violin Concerto No. 2, "Angel's Share" (2017/2018)(24:00)

January 24 (Trout):
*Fujikura, Dai: Bassoon Concerto (2012) [25]
Widmann, Jörg: Viola Concerto (2015) [28]*

January 31:

February 7:


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

CURRENT PROGRAM. FEEL FREE TO CHANGE OR EDIT YOUR ENTRIES AND NOMINATE AN XL WORK.

November 22: (20centrfuge)
Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn)
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf)
TBD
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv)
TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

December 20: (gregorx)
TBD

December 27-January 9: TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate a work)
Current nominations:
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17: (Simon Moon)
Augusta Read Thomas - "Prisms of Light" (2014) (22:28)
Erkki-Sven Tüür - Violin Concerto No. 2, "Angel's Share" (2017/2018)(24:00)

January 24 (Trout):
Fujikura, Dai: Bassoon Concerto (2012) [25]
Widmann, Jörg: Viola Concerto (2015) [28]

January 31: (Mandryka)
TBD

February 7:


----------



## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

Do we actually need two pieces from a composer who was 92 years old in 2000, whose esthetic is from the last century, and who is is no way representative of recent musical trends?


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Hey! I would like to add Magnus Lindberg "Mano a Mano" for solo guitar, about 15 minutes, and Luca Francesconi "DUENDE" (violin concerto) which is about 50 minutes...or is that too much?


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Hey! I would like to add Magnus Lindberg "Mano a Mano" for solo guitar, about 15 minutes, and Luca Francesconi "DUENDE" (violin concerto) which is about 50 minutes...or is that too much?


We're shooting for about 40-50 minutes total so the Francesconi by itself would work, or do the Lindberg with a different selection or two.

edit: oops, I thought the Francesconi piece by itself was 50 minutes. Even so, see if you can shave off a few minutes on the total program.


----------



## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Hey! I would like to add Magnus Lindberg "Mano a Mano" for solo guitar, about 15 minutes, and Luca Francesconi "DUENDE" (violin concerto) which is about 50 minutes...or is that too much?


The UK premiere of Duende, which is on youtube, lasts 30 minutes.


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

...so I can keep both? I was wrong with the Fracesconi timing.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> ...so I can keep both? I was wrong with the Fracesconi timing.


We'll let it slide this once


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

If everyone already knows the Chin Cello Concerto I could always pick something else (??)


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

CURRENT PROGRAM. FEEL FREE TO CHANGE OR EDIT YOUR ENTRIES AND NOMINATE AN XL WORK.

November 22: (20centrfuge)
Chin, Unsuk: Cello Concerto (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Four Poems by Anna Akhmatova (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn)
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf)
TBD
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv)
TBD shorter Enno Poppe work -- ??? maybe Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30] ???
Enno Poppe: Speicher I, for large ensemble (part I of the Speicher cycle) (2009-2010) [17]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]

December 20: (gregorx)
TBD

*TBD XL GROUP SELECTION* (feel free to nominate a work)
December 27-January 9: 
_Current nominations:_
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram II - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [9]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17: (Simon Moon)
Augusta Read Thomas - "Prisms of Light" (2014) (22:28)
Erkki-Sven Tüür - Violin Concerto No. 2, "Angel's Share" (2017/2018)(24:00)

January 24 (Trout):
Fujikura, Dai: Bassoon Concerto (2012) [25]
Widmann, Jörg: Viola Concerto (2015) [28]

January 31: (Mandryka)
TBD

February 7: (Kjetil Heggelund)
Lindberg
Francesconi

February 14:

February 21:

February 28:

_February 28 will be the projected end of Round One. We can start a new round after that if there is interest._


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Kilgore Trout said:


> Do we actually need two pieces from a composer who was 92 years old in 2000, whose esthetic is from the last century, and who is is no way representative of recent musical trends?


Elliott Carter removal?

If so, then we need to consider composers' years of birth. Should Kurtag also be omitted?


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

What criteria would you propose?


----------



## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

Prodromides said:


> Elliott Carter removal?


I don't call for his removal, but one piece seems enough.
Kurtag is at least still alive and kicking (his 2018 opera, _Fin de partie_, was good).


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

20centrfuge said:


> What criteria would you propose?


Multiple parameters to consider. One could designate a specific year of birth (such as 1950) and exclude any composer born before that year. Or, instead, focus only on living composers and exclude works from the deceased.
The most difficult, IMO, is the filtering of compositions to ascertain whether or not each work represents 21st century trends.
Myself, I'm not aware of any particular artistic movements from the 1990s up to the present; the most recent 'label' I'm familiar with is 'spectral' music from the '80s.
Anyway, all this is up for group discussions ... 20centrfuge, what do you think?


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

My own feeling is that you should leave Carter in and have the argument when he comes up. There's also Stockhausen to think about. 

What about structured improvisations? Can I choose Richard Barrett's Codex?


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm of the feeling that anything goes. I'm not hardcore. If it was written in the last 20 years and is loosely considered part of the classical music - aka Western art music tradition, then I'm in. Whether it is avant-garde or not, electronic, or whatever.

I like threads like this because they draw on everyone's interests, passions, and amateur expertise. I get to hear and focus on stuff that I wouldn't otherwise.

Ideally diversity would reign supreme with lots of different composers and genres but if two different people happen to both be passionate about Elliott Carter then I'm ok with that.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm of the feeling that anything goes. I'm not hardcore. If it was written in the last 20 years and is loosely considered part of the classical music - aka Western art music tradition, then I'm in. Whether it is avant-garde or not, electronic, or whatever.


I wholeheartedly support this statement.

If there's genuinely someone who thinks we should exclude Carter because he was born in 1908-even though Carter's craft and style notably _continued to evolve substantially_ even in his last decade-I think we can simply ignore that opinion.

After all, if someone wants to make their own thread whereby they exclude any and all styles they dislike, they're certainly welcome to do so.

I am one who of those who chose Carter, his wholly remarkable Horn Concerto, and I'm not backing down.

ETA: My choice to round out my mini-concert is Caroline Shaw's _Entr'acte_, for string orchestra.


----------



## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> Bad timing for me. I'm going to take a break from Contemporary Music (at least the dissonant type) for a while. Maybe the last thread drained my enthusiasm for it.


Why not just propose some tonal/less dissonant works? I believe that is well within the listening group's intent. Some examples that springs to mind (if you don't already know them), Shaw - _Partita for 8 voices_, Tabakova - _Concerto for cello and strings_, Penderecki - _Symphony 6_, Abrahamsen - _Let me tell you_, Adams - _City Noir_, MacMillan - _Symphony 5_.

Someone _really_ need to add Penderecki's 6th. I forgot about it when I made my suggestions, but I'd rather showcase some unknown Norwegian composers than backing down and adding a contemporary giant.


----------



## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

Let me explain why I chose Instances even after Carter's Horn Concerto had already been chosen. Correspondances is very melodic and tonal/modal, whereas Epigram II is very abrasive, dissonant, and noisy. Instances is a good contrast between both because it's very clear and elegant, but I didn't want another romantic-sounding tonal piece, and it also fit within the time constraints. If you don't want to listen to Carter again, then just swap out Instances for Epigram I. I didn't want to overwhelm people with Franck Bedrossian and "saturated" music if they don't like that sort of thing because it can sound extreme sometimes. Having those three different pieces provided a good balance within the time constraints. And as for Elliott Carter being "in no way representative of recent musical trends," I have no idea how we would conduct research into finding out what styles are trending and which aren't, and I don't even know why we would want to. Anyways, I don't think we should get into the business of figuring out which music coheres to "recent trends" and which doesn't; we should just stick to finding good music written in the last 20 years. But again, feel free to swap out Epigram I if Carter twice is too much for you.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I presume there will be a round two after all of this, so there's time for lots of music. I'd say leave it as is but leave the decision entirely up to you. Thanks oh Emperor, my Emperor!


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I might revise my selections yet again before Sunday, but I'd like to now nominate:

Enno Poppe: Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30]
Enno Poppe: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]
Enno Poppe: Schnur, for violin & orchestra (2019) [19:30]

As great as Speicher I is, the audio quality of the one recording in existence isn't the greatest (the strings sound a bit distant, and that's where some of the juicy stuff happens). It's quite a complex work, and while reading a score certainly helps direct my ears through the bad audio, I can't assume everyone can do that. So I'm switching it out for Schnur -- for now, at least.


----------



## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Edit: Will state this elsewhere, perhaps slightly derailing.


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

EmperorOfIceCream said:


> Let me explain why I chose Instances even after Carter's Horn Concerto had already been chosen. Correspondances is very melodic and tonal/modal, whereas Epigram II is very abrasive, dissonant, and noisy. Instances is a good contrast between both because it's very clear and elegant, but I didn't want another romantic-sounding tonal piece, and it also fit within the time constraints. If you don't want to listen to Carter again, then just swap out Instances for Epigram I. I didn't want to overwhelm people with Franck Bedrossian and "saturated" music if they don't like that sort of thing because it can sound extreme sometimes. Having those three different pieces provided a good balance within the time constraints. And as for Elliott Carter being "in no way representative of recent musical trends," I have no idea how we would conduct research into finding out what styles are trending and which aren't, and I don't even know why we would want to. Anyways, I don't think we should get into the business of figuring out which music coheres to "recent trends" and which doesn't; we should just stick to finding good music written in the last 20 years. But again, feel free to swap out Epigram I if Carter twice is too much for you.


Considering you have 50 minutes to work with and have only used up 34, why not include both Carter and Epigram I? Best of both worlds. Two works by the old guard (Carter, Dutilleux) and two by an up-and-coming star (Bedrossian).

Or maybe one by Bedrossian and one by Cendo, along with the Carter and Dutilleux?


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

Besides me and 20centrfuge, is anyone else going to nominate a longer work for the weeks of 12/27-1/9?


----------



## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

Well then if you don’t mind me going a little longer, we might as well just do the full Epigrams + Correspondances, which I think is about 54 minutes. Two song cycles, but very different!


----------



## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

calvinpv said:


> Besides me and 20centrfuge, is anyone else going to nominate a longer work for the weeks of 12/27-1/9?


I'll nominate Kate Soper's impressive "philosophy-opera" _IPSA DIXIT_ (2010-16). But I'd be happy with either the Neuwirth (which I love) or the Saunders (which I'd love to hear).


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Knorf was offended by a perceived attack on his music and in turn offended Kilgore Trout by stating that Kilgore's opinion is not valid. The only way out of issues like this, in my opinion, is for people to work it out civilly. I admit to being a terrible policeman. I am a pacifist by nature. I value the participation of both parties and understand why both parties were offended.

I am going to ask that this thread not get derailed with this personal issue and that if the two parties are going to attempt to work it out they do so through private messages.

Peace


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> Knorf was offended by a perceived attack on his music and in turn offended Kilgore Trout by stating that Kilgore's opinion is not valid.


To be clear, I was offended by nothing here. I was merely replying to your "anything goes" post, which I explicitly agreed with and still support. To not limit stylistic choices seems best to me.

ETA: It seems I can't over-emphasize that I support a more or less totally broad acceptance of repertoire, whether current in style or not, whether avant garde (if that still means something) or not, whether new complexity or minimalist, or something else altogether outside those continua.

So, I stand by my support of your post that "anything goes," and furthermore I will not back down from choosing Carter's Horn Concerto, which I think is a masterpiece. Of course, since this your thread afterall, I would withdraw the choice at your request, but I would then also withdraw from participating in this thread.

You'll notice I have not at all attempted to dictate terms, neither attacking nor in any way criticizing repertoire chosen by others, but only reacting in support of your "anything goes," and to defend my own choice, which was under attack. As far as I can see, only one poster here has attacked other posters' choices.

Again, at no time was I offended.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

calvinpv said:


> Besides me and 20centrfuge, is anyone else going to nominate a longer work for the weeks of 12/27-1/9?


I like your choices very much myself, and am merely still mulling over whether to add another suggestion. How about Wolfgang Rihm's _Requiem-Strophen_? It's around 80 minutes.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

*SO FAR WE HAVE BUT YOU CAN EDIT ANYTIME...*

November 22: (20centrfuge)
Chin, Unsuk: Concerto for Cello (2006-8, rev.2013) [28]
Kurtág, György: Poems (4) of Anna Akhmatova, for voice & orchestra (1997-2008) [12]

November 29: (Ravn)
Ratkje, Maja: Tale of Lead and Light, String Quartet No. 1 (2011) [10]
Moe, Ole-Henrik: Vent Litt Lenger (2008) [39]

December 6: (Knorf)
Shaw, Caroline: Entr'acte, for string orchestra (2011) [12]
Carter, Elliott: Horn Concerto (2007) [11]
Adams, John: Guide to Strange Places (2001) [24]

December 13: (calvinpv)
Poppe, Enno: Trauben, for piano trio (2004-2005) [11:30]
Poppe, Enno: Rundfunk, for nine synthesizers, 1st movement (2015-2018) [19]
Poppe, Enno: Schnur, for violin & orchestra (2019) [19:30]

December 20: (gregorx)
TBD

TBD XL GROUP SELECTION (feel free to nominate a work)
December 27-January 9:
_Current nominations:_
Neuwirth, Olga: Lost Highway (opera) (calvinpv)
Rihm, Wolfgang: Requiem-Strophen
Saunders, Rebecca: Yes (20centrfuge)
Soper, Kate: "philosophy-opera" IPSA DIXIT (2010-16)

January 10: (EmperorOfIceCream)
Instances - Elliott Carter (2012) [7]
Epigram - Franck Bedrossian (2010-2018) [35]
Correspondances - Henri Dutilleux (2003) [18]

January 17: (Simon Moon)
Thomas, Augusta Read: "Prisms of Light" (2014) (22:28)
Tüür, Erkki-Sven: Violin Concerto No. 2, "Angel's Share" (2017/2018)(24:00)

January 24 (Trout):
Fujikura, Dai: Bassoon Concerto (2012) [25]
Widmann, Jörg: Viola Concerto (2015) [28]

January 31: (Mandryka)
TBD

February 7: (Kjetil Heggelund)
Lindberg, Magnus: Mano a Mano (solo guitar) (2004) [15]
Francesconi, Luca: Duende (violin concerto) (2014) [31]

February 14:

February 21:

February 28:

February 28 will be the projected end of Round One. We can start a new round after that if there is interest. We'll leave February 14, 21, 28 for latecomers. If there are no takers we can use those weeks for another of the XL works.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

You know you’ve wandered into a contemporary music thread when you encounter a debate about whether Carter is too outdated and conservative, while you are proud of finally liking some Schoenberg :lol:.

(A nice thread idea, by the way! I struggle a lot with contemporary classical but different recommendations in TC have already helped me tons and I suppose these here will do that, too. Hence, I might sneak in from time to time.)


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Knorf said:


> To be clear, I was offended by nothing here. I was merely replying to your "anything goes" post, which I explicitly agreed with and still support. To not limit stylistic choices seems best to me.
> 
> ETA: It seems I can't over-emphasize that I support a more or less totally broad acceptance of repertoire, whether current in style or not, whether avant garde (if that still means something) or not, whether new complexity or minimalist, or something else altogether outside those continua.
> 
> ...


I cheated and listened to the Horn Concerto in question, and it's great. Carter is one where I'm either totally indiffferent to, or have full connection with.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

We just can't keep you away Phil! Admit it - you want to be a part of this!


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

Okay, here's my selections:

Thorvaldsdottir, Anna: Metacosmos (2017) [15]
Benjamin, George: Dance Figures, nine choreographic scenes for orchestra (2004) [15]
Saariaho, Kaija: Leino Songs (2007) [14]

Are we referencing links of preferred recordings, or what?


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

If you are available to post on the date you signed up for, just post recording links then. If you aren't, you can post them in advance or email me and I can post them for you.


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

So this is a totally random idea, and it can be ignored if it's too much for the listening group, but I got sidetracked with some music today (don't worry, I'll get to 20centrfuge's concert) that could make for a nice "old meets new" type of concert. I know one of the main criticisms against contemporary music is that it's seen as too detached from the past traditions and styles. An invalid criticism, to be sure, but maybe a week could be used to demonstrate that?

For example, today I listened to

Georg Philipp Telemann: Orchestral Suite in C Major TWV 55:C3 "Wassermusik" (1723) [23 minutes]
Wolfgang Mitterer: Inwendig losgelöst (2006) [23 minutes]

Jaufré Rudel: Lanquan li jorn son lonc en mai (mid-12th century) [5 minutes]
Kaija Saariaho: Lonh, for soprano & tape (1996) [15 minutes]
Kaija Saariaho: L'Amour de loin, opera (2000) [2 hours?]

The Mitterer makes heavy use of the Telemann, and the two Saariaho works make use of the Rudel poem (and what music can be attributed to it).

Either of these groupings of works would make for an interesting concert, though someone can certainly nominate another concert where the contemporary work makes explicit use of a past piece of music or set of pieces (it can even be a past style, though that might be harder to demonstrate). What do people think? Again, this is a random idea that I'm just throwing out there.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

We're on for the Unsuk Chin Cello Concerto and Kurtág's Akhmatova Songs, starting this week, correct?


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I started a different thread to kick it off:

'Contemporary Music (21st-Century) Weekly Listening Thread'


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> I started a different thread to kick it off:
> 
> 'Contemporary Music (21st-Century) Weekly Listening Thread'


Off to find it!


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

calvinpv said:


> So this is a totally random idea, and it can be ignored if it's too much for the listening group, but I got sidetracked with some music today (don't worry, I'll get to 20centrfuge's concert) that could make for a nice "old meets new" type of concert. I know one of the main criticisms against contemporary music is that it's seen as too detached from the past traditions and styles. An invalid criticism, to be sure, but maybe a week could be used to demonstrate that?
> 
> For example, today I listened to
> 
> ...


I think this is a fantastic idea. Do you think enough people would go for it to introduce it as a theme for Round 2? Or better to just let individuals who want to do it, do it individually?


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> I think this is a fantastic idea. Do you think enough people would go for it to introduce it as a theme for Round 2? Or better to just let individuals who want to do it, do it individually?


Thinking about it some more: if we were to do it for round 2, I'd probably loosen the restrictions I set in my previous post to the point where all that is required is:
1. all of your works should share some theme connecting them together.
2. you should be able to point out the connections to the rest of the group *to some extent*, even if you're unable to go into great detail. Bonus points if the theme is rather unusual and if you can explain any differences, however slight, between the works; after all, no single work is identical with another. I don't want to hear any fluff like "I chose these works because they're so atmospheric, rigorous, rhythmically interesting, etc." Also note that one way to establish connection is by opposition and difference, not just by similarity. After all, composers don't always agree as to what makes for the best music.
3. though more than one work by a single composer can be represented in your concert, you need at least two composers represented. This rule might be a bit arbitrary, since you can also make a themed concert with one composer, but I think it shakes things up a bit.

The Mitterer and Saariaho pieces I listened to were clear-cut examples of what I'd look for because they actually quoted those past works in their near entirety. But there are so many other ways to establish a theme. I'm too tired at the moment, but tomorrow, I can write out some examples of what I'd look for.

And when I wrote my previous post, I had in mind the specific criticism of contemporary music being too cut off from traditional classical music. But that criticism is usually part of a larger criticism that contemporary music is so random and thoughtless that it has no formal program whatsoever, let alone any programmatic connections with the past. Again, a baseless criticism. Most composers today have very explicit aims and intentions in their music; they just may not be the exact same aims as those of Mozart or Beethoven, which is why people get tripped up over contemporary music.

Having themed concerts at the very least shows that contemporary composers aren't working in a vacuum with very niched interests but are part of a larger collective working towards some aesthetic goal(s). Just like every other composer of the past. In other words, themed concerts *humanizes* them a bit, shows they're not the monsters they're made out to be.

This is a longer post than I intended. We should probably get through round 1 before thinking about a sequel.


----------

