# String Quartet: Movements 1 and 3



## MJTTOMB

So I've been handing out a lot of criticism lately and I guess it's only fair that you all should have an equal opportunity to criticize my work.

These are the two completed movements of my String Quartet, which was written as an attempt to take an impression of Haydn's musical voice.

The first movement is a relatively strict Sonata-Allegro form, and the third is a somewhat standard Menuet and trio.

Attached is the score for these two movements.

All comments are welcome, and suggestions for the form/mood of the second movement would help, as that's been the most troublesome movement so far.


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## LarsikComposer

This is just like hearing Haydn so you have achieved what you wanted I like Haydn very much so I like this one too. I think you have done a great job composing this quartet. 

Have a nice day


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## Delicious Manager

While your quartet is a worthy attempt at imitating Haydn (despite too many clichéd repeated cadences), it made me wonder 'why?'. Unless yours is simply an interesting exercise in pastiche, I don't see the point in writing _ersatz_ Haydn when he already did better more than 200 years ago.


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## MJTTOMB

Of course Haydn did better. Haydn wrote music all his life, and studied with great musicians. I'm only 17, and I have yet to take courses in composition. Composition is something I've learned on my own time with the guidance of my theory teacher from time to time. Maybe Haydn will always be better (almost certainly he will), but until then it is simply practice in composing.

I firmly believe that one of the best ways to develop a strong compositional "voice" is to try to imitate the voices of the greats, because all of them had significant things to offer. And dissecting their works to a point where one can create a somewhat accurate recreation of their style, however mediocre, demonstrates at the very least a strong familiarity with the characteristics that make a piece by Haydn sound like Haydn.

That's my reasoning.


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## Delicious Manager

As an aspiring composer, to study, understand the great composers and their music is vital. To be able to imitate it well as an exercise is also very useful. However, be sure to also develop a voice of your own.


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## LarsikComposer

Delicious Manager said:


> While your quartet is a worthy attempt at imitating Haydn (despite too many clichéd repeated cadences), it made me wonder 'why?'. Unless yours is simply an interesting exercise in pastiche, I don't see the point in writing _ersatz_ Haydn when he already did better more than 200 years ago.


Well, he never said that he wrote this quartet to ersatz (replace?) Haydn did he?

Its like saying that there`s no point writing any new pop/rock songs coz lennon/mccartney, brian wilson, bob dylan or paul simon did it better 40 years ago

I have been a member of this forum for a few weeks now and I have noticed one thing. In general I think it is too much negative criticism in this forum. We should back each other up instead.
I dont speak english so well so I cant express myself that good but I hope you understand what I mean.

I think this quartet is a very good attemp trying to immitate Haydn so MJTTOMB has done a great job composing this, and that is what we should concentrate about, not if there`s a need or a point writing a new "haydn style" quartet or not.


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## Delicious Manager

LarsikComposer said:


> In general I think it is too much negative criticism in this forum. We should back each other up instead.


I presume when people post in here asking opinions about something that they want HONEST answers, rather than someone to simply massage their ego or to legitimise their taste. If asked my opinion, I am honest about what I think; I see no point in doing otherwise. If I have nothing to say, I simply don't post and move on.

The comment about not bothering to write 'pop songs' is irrelevant. If people tried to copy BEATLES songs, then there would be no point (Oasis, please take note!), but pop is a very wide-ranging genre covering many styles. That's why I don't listen to very much pop that has been written in the last decade. There is very little of any originality to listen to (no, I know that's not what today's teenagers are said to want) and it all seems to sound more or less the same. It would seem that someone needs to kick the pop scene up the rear in the way that punk did in the mid-1970s.


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## MJTTOMB

Thanks Larsik for your comments. D. Manager means no harm by his comments though, and his criticisms are somewhat valid. I've been writing for years now, but I still do not feel quite ready to unleash my own style yet. My hope would be that I can get all of the practice out of the way in my last year of high school, and begin forming the compositional voice I will carry for the rest of my life in college.

And back to the matter of Haydn's works being better, that's of little concern to me. The concept of music as a competition for glory or a contest to see who can do the best or be the most original simply runs completely contrary to my own personal philosophy of music. It's not about doing better than someone else, it's about accomplishing what you set out to accomplish and conveying that to an audience.


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## Bledjan Stufi

i think this composition smells Haydn and, you has a articulation skill.Your cadances clever so;nice music,
good luck ..


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## Alan_GonMar

I liked it. It feels like it was written before, because of the style you used.
Good writting


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## Fibonacci

Love it. Elegant, pleasant.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

The audio plays for only 20 seconds...


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## MJTTOMB

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> The audio plays for only 20 seconds...


Might be a problem with your browser, it's working fine on my computer, and apparently everyone else's.


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## BWV582

*response to MJTTOMB and ensuing debate*

MJTTOMB,

At first glance, this music seems quite good, especially if you're only 17! I'll need some time to look over it and give you a worthy critique. I was reading some of the posts in this thread, and I thought I would weigh in. I just made a relevant comment in another thread before reading this, not realize that the debate was already raging. In my opinion, music is worthwhile if people enjoy it. Regardless of style, why would you deprive people of music that they enjoy?


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## BWV582

*Good work!*

MJTTOMB,

I took a closer at your quartet, and I'll do my best to give you some feedback. I wish I had more time, because I'd love to discuss it at length. In any case, I'll start by saying that I thought the piece was great. You've taken a very disciplined approach to constructing a Haydnesque quartet and following sonata form. My problem used to be that I would get carried away with some motif and then go off on a tangent, ruining the form in the process. I had no discipline. But you're right to be working so hard at understanding and adhering to form, because creativity is most effective when it flows through a logical structure. Some people would say that's contradictory, and therein lies a common misconception... in my opinion.

Let's start with measure 2. It cadences on a I6/4. Because the first measure is already such an authoritative tonic, my ear expects to hear the second phrase in measure 2 answer with a cadence on the dominant. Also, measure 4 cadences on the tonic as well, so you have three authentic cadences in the first 4 measures. I'm not saying that you won't find examples of that in the repertoire, but it's something to consider. If you do want to stick with the I chord in measure 2 I would consider putting it in root position instead of second inversion, which I found a bit strange. The I6/4 usually moves to V and not the other way around. The fact that measure 3 also starts on 6/4 chord, resulting in consecutive 6/4s, I think is unusual in this context and something to look at.

The first beat of measure 5 is a I chord with a doubled 5th. Doubling the 5th can be appropriate if there's a voice leading reason to do it, but otherwise I would try to double the root. Also, I noticed parallel octaves in beats 2 to 3 from G# to A in the cello and 2nd violin. Parallel octaves can be okay if in the context of overt doubling to bolster a theme or to get an acoustic effect, but otherwise Classical composers avoided them.

The second beat of measure 6 is a 6/4 with a doubled 5th and missing 3rd. In measure 7 there are double octaves again from G# to A.

This is all stuff that's really easy to learn, and the important thing is that you have a good sense of the general style, character, and form of this kind of piece. In other words, you have the natural talent, and the rest is just grunt work of going through the voice leading rules, which you'll find will come very easily.

Looking through the rest of the movement, I'd be careful of too many cadences. I know there was a kind of mania for cadences in the Classical period, but I think you have a couple more than you need, and you want to be careful not to interrupt the flow of the form if you can help it.

As for the bridge between your 3 themes, it's function is clear, but therein lies the rub. It's extremely difficult to transition between themes in a way that achieves the modulation and the change in mood smoothly. I still struggle with this. It's great if the bridge can grow out of theme 1 organically so it sounds like the theme is moving somewhere as opposed to the theme coming to a halt and then the bridge coming in out of nowhere. Then to find your way out of the bridge and into the second theme in an elegant way is equally difficult. I've always found the transitional areas in sonata form to be by far the toughest spots. Honestly, I still haven't figured it out.

The 16th note accompanimental motif for your 2nd theme I think may be too similar to the 16ths motif in measures 11 through 13 and to a lesser extent 7 through 8. The similarity may undermine the contrast that you want between your two themes. Not sure about this, but worth considering.

Lastly, your chord progressions are very logical, which, after all, is only appropriate for the age of the Enlightenment. But I would try to get a few more exotic chords in there. Along the same lines, you might try to insert more chromaticism to break up what comes off as a very diatonic piece; perhaps a bit too diatonic. Gotta run. Hope this helps. I want to emphasize that this is really amazing work for a 17 year old. My music wasn't nearly this solid when I was that age. Keep it up.


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