# Schubert symphonies advice



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

I'd love some advice on a good Schubert symphonies cycle.
So far I have 8 and 9 (St Petersburg - don't know if it's supposed to be any good, but I like it) and 5 (Bohm, VPO).
I'd like both to hear other versions of these, as I have grown to love them, and to hear the rest of his symphonies.

So... what would you suggest?
I'd be interested to try out HIP Schubert, or stay traditional. I'm also after something affordable, which these sets mostly seem to be.
My shortlist so far is Blomstedt, Marriner (which has all 10...?), Karajan; Harnoncourt , Bruggen, Goodman/Hanover (the latter is VERY cheap). 
Plus Bohm, I guess, as I like his 5th.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Steve


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Among others, I have nos. 8 and 9 by Karajan (EMI), Brüggen and Goodman. Based on these, I'd recommend them all.

I also have the complete Blomstedt, and he's great, too. However, except for no. 5, I haven't really listened to the earlier Schubert symphonies, mostly because I read a Brahms quote somewhere, saying they didn't really warrant publication. (Hogwood said essentially the same about the early Schubert quartets.)


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## Rhombic (Oct 28, 2013)

I suggest NOT listening to #2.


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## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

The Goodman\Hanover set is very good and I highly recommend it. 

The Marriner set has a version of Symphony No. 7 fully orchestrated, a 'completion' of the Symphony No. 8 using fragments left by Schubert for the third movement and some music (the Entr'acte) from 'Rosamunde' to fill in the blanks and the Symphony No. 10 is based upon sketches that Schubert was working on his his last weeks.

Another set I recommend is Claudio Abbado's with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. That one includes an orchestration of the 'Grand Duo' by Joseph Joachim from when it was thought that the 'Grand Duo' was a transcription or a draft of symphony.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Generally I think that You should have one each!

For Hip I recommend Marc Minkowski (Naive) or Jos van Immerseel (Zig Zag), both cycles are very good! 

For Romantic big boned I recommend: István Kertész/VPO (Cheap on Decca) or Colin Davis/SKD (RCA), I often find Kertész slightly more organic!

Even if Goodman is cheap, I say avoid it, gives me chronic ear abscesses... 

/ptr


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

The Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden cycle is top shelf. Fantastic playing and sound. Since it's on Brilliant Classics now you can pick it up really cheap and would be an excellent introduction. Tempos are moderate, natural and flowing, he does skip a few repeats if that sort of thing is important to you, but it's well worth owning.

Riccardo Muti/Vienna Philharmonic would be my other pick. Wonderful playing from the Vienna Philharmonic and Muti was inspired when he recorded his cycle. Fiery readings, that I feel matches perfectly what Schubert had in mind. He also takes all the repeats if that is important to you.

As a side note, for Symphonies 8 & 9 (without the repeats) you also might give a listen to Charles Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra as they have been considered reference versions for like 50 years. You can listen to them on YouTube and compare them to something like Muti's (which have the repeats) and see which you prefer.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

And if you are game for something unusual, listen to Luciano Berio's _Rendering_. He took the sketches that Schubert left of his last symphony and built a work around it. It is half Schubert and half Berio and wholly interesting.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I have the Marriner set on LP and the Blomstedt set on CD. I haven't listened to either, though they've been on the shelf for (in the case of Marriner, at least) many years.

I have a really soft spot in my heart for Klemperer's Fifth. It may be just a tad slow in places for some people, but it has such a warm glow to it. Just love it.


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## phlrdfd (Jan 18, 2015)

Furtwangler (live wartime BPO), Szell (Sony) and Walter (NYP) are my favorite recordings of the 9th, with Furtwangler (live '52 BPO), Sinopoli (Philhamonia) and Kertesz (VPO) on top for the 8th.

I recommend Kertesz for the cycle:


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Harnoncourt primarily, 
and among historical recordings, Abendroth, Mengelberg and Furtwängler. Scherchen isn´t at his best here.
I haven´t heard Kertesz but I´m pretty sure it´s good.

Marriner should definitely be compared with others, before buying.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

I know it is not on your shortlist but* Jos Van Immerseel's cycle with the Anima Eterna Bugge *is a wonderful HIP cycle. It is the cycle which opened me to HIP performance and aside from wonderful performances, the booklet is very well written and informative.






​
*Symphony No. 8:
*




*Symphony No. 9: *





From your list, I am only really familiar with the Harnoncourt and it is a really good cycle that would not disappoint you.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

AClockworkOrange said:


> I know it is not on your shortlist but* Jos Van Immerseel's cycle with the Anima Eterna Bugge *is a wonderful HIP cycle. It is the cycle which opened me to HIP performance and aside from wonderful performances, the booklet is very well written and informative.
> 
> View attachment 67903​
> *Symphony No. 8:
> ...


Yes, I like the look of van Immerseel. I copped an ear too, and found it an exciting listen. In fact it's what's made me think I might like to try a bit of HIP now and then. TBH the only thing putting me off is price - mercenary I know, but with so many other very well-reviewed cycles coming in at under £10 on AMazon Marketplace...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

PS I realise I already have two slices of van Immerseel in my small but growing collection, though as pianist rather than conductor - in Beethoven's Cello Sonatas and Schubert's Piano Trios. My untrained ears are quite partial to both!


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

Steve Wright said:


> Yes, I like the look of van Immerseel. I copped an ear too, and found it an exciting listen. In fact it's what's made me think I might like to try a bit of HIP now and then. TBH the only thing putting me off is price - mercenary I know, but with so many other very well-reviewed cycles coming in at under £10 on AMazon Marketplace...


It isn't mercenary - it's being practical


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)




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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't forget the DG set with Karl Bohm ( I still don't know how to put umlauts on the computer ) and the Berlin Philharmonic , which is as good as any as far as I am concerned , and as far as I know is
still available and not very expensive . Bohm was a maestro of the old school , and his roots go way back into the 19th century , having been born in 1894 . He died in 1981 . His Schubert isn't HIP , but it's certainly authentic in spirit in a way younger conductors who are not Austrian aren't , no disrespect to them.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

superhorn said:


> Don't forget the DG set with Karl Bohm...


Thank you! Yes, another good choice. I have, and love, Bohm conducting Schubert's 5th, along with Beethoven's 6th. A lovely, joyous, mellow listen.

Does anyone have an opinion on Gunter Wand's Schubert? 
I have half a mind to wait till birthday time for the big Gunter Wand boxset which includes a Schubert cycle, plus cycles by Bruckner (I'd very much like to get into B, and I gather GW is among the best here), Beethoven (I don't have a cycle, just a few individual discs), Brahms (I have Wand's Brahms already, and love it), etc etc.

Thank you!
S


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

realdealblues said:


> The Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden cycle is top shelf. Fantastic playing and sound. Since it's on Brilliant Classics now you can pick it up really cheap and would be an excellent introduction. Tempos are moderate, natural and flowing, he does skip a few repeats if that sort of thing is important to you, but it's well worth owning.
> 
> Riccardo Muti/Vienna Philharmonic would be my other pick. Wonderful playing from the Vienna Philharmonic and Muti was inspired when he recorded his cycle. Fiery readings, that I feel matches perfectly what Schubert had in mind. He also takes all the repeats if that is important to you.
> 
> As a side note, for Symphonies 8 & 9 (without the repeats) you also might give a listen to Charles Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra as they have been considered reference versions for like 50 years. You can listen to them on YouTube and compare them to something like Muti's (which have the repeats) and see which you prefer.


The Blomstedt is also quite inexpensive. I have both that set and the Goodman set. The Goodman set has the HIP sounds but I would best characterize the interpretive stance as neutral. The Blomstedt is of course a modern Orchestra but the Dresden Orchestra has a wonderful Old World Central Europen timbre and Blomstedt conducts with a light touch.

I have a Denon disc for the last 20 years that I love, Otka Suitner conducting an East German Orchestra in 5 and 8. Haitink and the Concertgebouw are my favorite 9. The Kleiber disc is well worth investigating. Reiner and the CSo were also great in 5 but that recording can be hard to locate.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

superhorn said:


> Don't forget the DG set with Karl Bohm ( I still don't know how to put umlauts on the computer ) and the Berlin Philharmonic , which is as good as any as far as I am concerned , and as far as I know is
> still available and not very expensive . Bohm was a maestro of the old school , and his roots go way back into the 19th century , having been born in 1894 . He died in 1981 . His Schubert isn't HIP , but it's certainly authentic in spirit in a way younger conductors who are not Austrian aren't , no disrespect to them.


I like Bohm's recordings, for example his 7th symphony with BPO. But I have never listened to the other symphonies. I'll recommend next to that, Eugen Jochum(or someone else)'s #4. With its beginning and repeated phrases, you'll find another visage of this composer. Why is this symphony sometimes called "tragical"? I don't know. Surely it's written in C minor.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

HIDEKI SUKENOBU said:


> Surely it's written in C minor.


But surely, C-minor is the most tragic of all key's! Title was coined by Schubert himself, written on the title page of the original score, maybe he had a sad day, agony from his syphilis, left by boyfriend or just not enough wine in the cupboard to make him happy! (My speculations! :tiphat

/ptr


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

I've also been advised that individual recordings are the way to go, with Beecham excellent in 3, 5 and 6, and on another disc 1, 2 and 8. And Krips for 9.
Which leaves 4. Any recommendations for that one? 
Thanks!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Sir Colin's Davis version of the Schubert symphonies I do enjoy. But I need to explore more possibilities in this dimension.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

ArtMusic said:


>


Just been listening to Minkowski's 9th / Great C Major on YouTube. My, quite something!
Maybe I'll dig deep for a HIP and a traditional/modern instruments set, in which case Minkowski and Blomstedt respectively would seem to be the go-tos for me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I enjoy the Goodman/Hanover Band cycle. The period orchestra doesn't sound scrawny and astringent; a bit of reverb in the acoustics gives it body, and nothing in the interpretations displeases. In addition to this I have Furtwangler doing the 8th and 9th, for a completely different approach.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Great set.
GORGEOUS sound.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Also I need to hear Schubert's unfinished symphonies as well. I think that there is a box set including those but I don't remember details about it.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Albert7 said:


> Also I need to hear Schubert's unfinished symphonies as well. I think that there is a box set including those but I don't remember details about it.


This one?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

So, my Schubert position is this.

I have an 8 and 9 (Vladimir Lande/St Petersburg) which I love, but suspect that there may be plenty of better versions out there, allowing me to hear even more in these two wonderful pieces.
I also have Bohm/VPO conducting 5, which is very lovely.
So: 
I'd like a complete cycle, to get to know 1-4 and 6.
I'd like to hear some HIP Schubert, as what I have heard (Minkowski doing 9) made a big impression on me. So much extra to hear in there. I would also like a conventional cycle for comparison.
And I'd love a few more versions of 8 and 9 as I can't get enough of 'em.
So, my current shopping list - which will take me a few months to work through - is:


























Hope you approve!


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I'd definitely recommend Frans Brüggen's disc with symphonies 3, 4 and 8 - a blazing and 'explosive' period instrument sound .


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I'd definitely recommend Frans Brüggen's disc with symphonies 3, 4 and 8 - a blazing and 'explosive' period instrument sound .


Thanks! I listened to Bruggen's and Minkowski's 9th on YouTube, and while both opened up new sound worlds to me I thought I found M's that bit more striking - but I shall cock an ear again.
S


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I can't recommend the Minkowski set enough and I'm pleased to see it get some mentions here. He breathes life into symphonies that have become common and over recorded. His 4th and 6th are hidden gems and his 9th is fresh and vibrant. Especially the underrated, inner movements. He makes the 2nd movement soar and brings out true magic from the 3rd movement. Schubert can be extremely difficult to shop for in bulk but the Minkowski set is a great starting point for newbies and HIPsters alike. I also love the Bohm, Barenboim, and Karajan. Each with a unique approach to these wonderfully diverse symphonies.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

there is a completed version of the symphony 8 on CD that i have home.Often there is only heard the 2 movement version.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I haven't heard this cycle but curious about it


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## stuart2135simon (May 27, 2010)

Does the CD version of Minkowski's 5th have the 4th movement clocked in at 7 minutes? I was investigating the issue of why Harnoncourt skips the repeat in the 4th movement when it's the only repeat in any of Schubert's symphonies that he ignores. (Strange, because it's one of the shorter repeats.) I subscribe to Naxos Music Library, and therein I was able to examine scan of Minkowski's CD insert. The written time of 4:37 for Minkowski's rendition of No. 5/IV would seem to indicate that he has the same conviction as Harnoncourt (that is, to ignore that repeat alone among all the repeats in the cycle), but the audio clocks in at 07:02 with the repeat obeyed. Is this correct for the CD as well?

Stuart


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

My Minkowski Schubert 5/4 shows 7:06.


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## stuart2135simon (May 27, 2010)

Thank you! It turns out he obeys that repeat but skips others (in the finale of the Tragic and in the last two movements of the Great C-Major).


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