# How long to practice



## Like2know

My daughter is 7 yrs. old and started taking instrument lessons at the beginning of school last year at 6 yrs. old. My wife has a musical background and practices with her. My thought is that she should practice about 45-60 mins. My wife has her practicing on some days 3-4 hrs. In addition to that, she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes. I think 3-4 hrs. of yelling is counterproductive. My daughter starts to cry and doesn't want to practice. I can't blame her. My questions are 1) How long should she be practicing at this age and 2) Should I be concerned about the yelling. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Rogerx

Like2know said:


> My daughter is 7 yrs. old and started taking instrument lessons at the beginning of school last year at 6 yrs. old. My wife has a musical background and practices with her. My thought is that she should practice about 45-60 mins. My wife has her practicing on some days 3-4 hrs. In addition to that, she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes. I think 3-4 hrs. of yelling is counterproductive. My daughter starts to cry and doesn't want to practice. I can't blame her. My questions are 1) How long should she be practicing at this age and 2) Should I be concerned about the yelling. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


If she really want's to learns something, without the pressure from her parent send her to a real teacher.


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## Guest

Like2know said:


> My daughter is 7 yrs. old and started taking instrument lessons at the beginning of school last year at 6 yrs. old. My wife has a musical background and practices with her. My thought is that she should practice about 45-60 mins. My wife has her practicing on some days 3-4 hrs. In addition to that, she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes. I think 3-4 hrs. of yelling is counterproductive. My daughter starts to cry and doesn't want to practice. I can't blame her. My questions are 1) How long should she be practicing at this age and 2) Should I be concerned about the yelling. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


I agree with Rogerx, Try to find a good music teacher.

I also think that 45 minutes is probably long enough for beginners , the yelling has to stop for your child's sake and for your wife's sake, else your child will not have the will to learn to play an instrument and will become a dreaded chore for her and as you suggested the shouting will serve only to make her nervous and make mistakes. Sounds like she is being forced into learning, not a good starting point. Which musical instrument is your daughter learning?


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## Ingélou

I agree - it's so easy for children to give things up. There has to be something that's fun or intriguing or beautiful about music lessons. 
My fiddle teacher has just started his little son on the violin - he has outsourced it to a teacher who's very used to dealing with young children, and when the little boy is not in the mood, she plays games with him that improve his bow hold or concentration etc. 

I would say between 20 minutes and 40 minutes most days to start with - making it up to an hour when the little girl has got used to it. 

A teacher is best, but if that isn't on, it's best to make it fun even while it's challenging - making up little games, competitions, performing a little concert for her friends or whatever. 

When I taught seven year olds I'd have prizes for everything, but in a fun way, so that everyone had the chance of winning something. One boy 'won' a toy tied to the class Christmas tree - a three-legged horse. He kept it on his desk the whole term .


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## Larkenfield

Assert your parental authority as a father in what sounds like an obviously abusive situation with your daughter. It’s no wonder she doesn’t want to practice under the circumstances. Just because your wife has a background in music does not mean that she’s her best teacher. For a child to practice 3 to 4 hours a day requires self-motivation, a natural love of learning and playing the music, and your daughter is obviously not there, at least at this point in her young development with this kind of a coercive approach. I suspect that your wife has ambitions for your daughter that perhaps she may never have been able to fulfill herself and she has unreasonable expectations of her. It sounds like a terrible situation that needs some type of intervention. I would also consult other violin teachers for a second opinion on what your wife is doing and see what they would recommend for a child this young. She’s your daughter too. Best wishes.


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## Rtnrlfy

3-4 hours a day for a 7-year-old is a lot, even apart from being yelled at. :-( Most beginner pieces are quite short for one thing, which becomes highly repetitive for practicing after an hour. Additionally, many kids are also involved in multiple activities, as well as needing to complete their schoolwork. Finding that sweet spot of enough practice to develop skills and also learn discipline, while staying balanced with everything else they're doing, is tough but key to their continuing with their music lessons (at least in my experience).


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## Like2know

My daughter takes lessons after school with a music instructor once a week. She plays the violin. The lessons are about 45 min. but there are other students in the class as well. I had a discussion with my wife about the duration of practice and about the yelling. She seems to think that is an effective way to teach our daughter. I told her to try another approach without yelling and shorter lessons. I also think my daughter would enjoy it more without the added stress. Her instructor always compliments her and tells us how well she is doing. I just want her to have fun and have a joyful experience learning to play.


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## EdwardBast

Three to four hours of going through the motions when the heart isn't in it might not do much good, although, if your wife insists your daughter must excel at music, she could always try beating her when she makes mistakes. One of my conservatory friends became an excellent pianist because her mother applied this method, which, at the time, in Singapore at least, seems to have been socially acceptable. And my friend is now a professional with a secure college teaching position and frequent performing opportunities. Of course, there are thousands of other little girls who were traumatized by such treatment who now have no interest in or connection to music. 

A half hour to an hour of concentrated practice by a happy child is about right. If the child later wants to do more it should be encouraged.


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## Phil loves classical

I taught my step-daughter piano, and she passed her Grade 7 exam of the Royal Conservatory. 3-4 hours is quite excessive to me for taking piano as a hobby. It is better to make smaller goals, so the kid can focus. I get my kid to learn and master bar by bar the notes and timing. And tell her to repeat the bar over and over till she can get it right 5 times in a row (or close to it). I do push her to her limit, but there is only so much you can remember at one sitting.


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## Like2know

EdwardBast said:


> Three to four hours of going through the motions when the heart isn't in it might not do much good, although, if your wife insists your daughter must excel at music, she could always try beating her when she makes mistakes. One of my conservatory friends became an excellent pianist because her mother applied this method, which, at the time, in Singapore at least, seems to have been socially acceptable. And my friend is now a professional with a secure college teaching position and frequent performing opportunities. Of course, there are thousands of other little girls who were traumatized by such treatment who now have no interest in or connection to music.
> 
> A half hour to an hour of concentrated practice by a happy child is about right. If the child later wants to do more it should be encouraged.


Beating her is not an option. Sounds like Tiger mom. She will learn at her own pace. I've had another discussion with my wife about her ways.


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## Like2know

Phil loves classical said:


> I taught my step-daughter piano, and she passed her Grade 7 exam of the Royal Conservatory. 3-4 hours is quite excessive to me for taking piano as a hobby. It is better to make smaller goals, so the kid can focus. I get my kid to learn and master bar by bar the notes and timing. And tell her to repeat the bar over and over till she can get it right 5 times in a row (or close to it). I do push her to her limit, but there is only so much you can remember at one sitting.


I agree with repeating the mistakes until they are corrected. This will reinforce the correct way to play. I feel that if practice is too long, more mistakes will be made due to being tired and frustrated.


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## Jaro

Like2know said:


> I agree with repeating the mistakes until they are corrected. This will reinforce the correct way to play. I feel that if practice is too long, more mistakes will be made due to being tired and frustrated.


I can relate to that. That is why I divided my practice time into shorter periods. For example, I spend each day to practice scales for ca. 30min (I am not advanced piano player and I need that  ) Then with short or long brake but the same day I practice something new following program on the app I am using, this take me ca. 60+ minutes. Then after some brake usually I spend ca. 30+ min practising pieces I know how to play and just improvising (I add this practice time recently because it was tiring and dis-motivating only learning, learning, learning and not enjoying the journey.) 
I can relate to earlier answers as well. At the beginning like 10 months ago it was difficult for me to stay playing for more than 45-60 minutes. Somehow it was impossible. Too much new things to master. But while progressing it is easier to extend practice time.
You can judge my progress on this video: 




I was completely beginner. Did not know anything about piano when I started 10 months ago. Good luck. Listen to your body, hands and head  Practice as much as you can, and at some point I believe, it happened to me, you will become HUNGRY to play more! Take care


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## Krummhorn

I was asked to practice at least 3 hours per day when I started piano lessons at age 6. I had a private teacher, even though I was brought up in a very musical family.

Please know that the 3 hours was not all in one block of time ... it was spread out over the day, and as time progressed, I would lengthen my practice time at the piano, and later on, organ.

I have this little phrase on my office wall at home:

_Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong. 
_
This also works:

_Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.
_
My personal practice time at church, in preparation for the weekend services, is usually 3 to 4 hours. I, of course, practice at home on the piano, reserving the time at church for registration, setting pistons, and finely tuning the pieces to be played.

Every once in a while a church practice session doesn't go well ... I can't seem to play more than five notes without making huge mistakes. I immediately stop that practice session and play a piece that I know very well and can play from memory, then go home.

Leaving a practice session on a positive note (no pun intended) is better than ending a practice session with negative thoughts. It's a process that works for me. 
Kh_ 
_


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## Jaro

Krummhorn said:


> I have this little phrase on my office wall at home:
> 
> _Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.
> _
> This also works:
> 
> _Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.
> _
> 
> Kh_
> _


What a great phrases  I am practising my scales until I can't get it wrong... (I mean still in the process) but... some pieces during my learning process I was practising: till I get it right... (amateur)
Thank you for this phrases, just realised wrong approach to some of my playing sessions. Will be improved


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## TMHeimer

I won't go into my story about how I came to start private clarinet lessons at age 9 in 1963. But the deal was I had to practice 40 minutes a day, which was my teacher's rule. I did. It was OK and I turned out fine.


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## TheMusicalScorpio

learning guitar I took the basics from youtube eg. chords, scales etc. but that only helped me so far, I then went in to guitar school for about 2-3hrs a week, then in my own time I averaged 1-2hrs per day or when I could find the time. I guess the more you practice the better you will be but then you got to want it bad enough if you are looking to go professional. For myself I wanted to know the basics and go from there.


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## Jaro

How long you practice depends where you are with your instrument skills. This is based on my own experience... I started with ca. 30+ min practice. All due to fact I was literally at zero point of my piano journey. Then it changes!!! Once you practice and you are able to play more and more and most of all pieces or simplified pieces you really like then you can stay with your instrument forever  But not all of us enough time. Right? So play! As much as you can.
Oh, even more important is consistency! PLAY EVERY DAY!


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## Adam Bodlack

My teacher expected three hours a day - (I didn't often do it though.... I had a live outside of piano) haha.


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## Piano4 Life

Some very helpful guidance on how to practice:


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## Festus

"... she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes."
If your wife is getting that upset over and extra curricular activity, I'd hate to think how she reacts to an issue of serious importance!


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## Enthalpy

About the same opinions as above:

Yelling is conter-productive. Your daughter will give up at 15, having lost her childhood and youth meanwhile, probably with mental problems more or less visible.
3h/day is too much at age 7. It becomes reasonable at age 12, when the kid itself has decided to become a professional.
Children have a right to have a childhood, and even, a happy childhood. They are not just future adults. And they must learn other skills, especially socialise with other kids, which takes time, and is more important to a career.
Has someone ever seen Heifetz smile?

To put it more brutally: yes, Like2know, go to conflict with your wife, and win. Do that for your daughter.

The original post doesn't give some information:

Shall the daughter become a professional musician? Did she decide that? (And did she tell it sincerely? At least, my violin professor asked me around 12 years, and twice, if I wanted to become a violinist. I meant "No way!" but answered "yes" because I supposed it was the expected answer. My friends would have gotten a more sincere answer.)
What instrument does she learn?
Competition is so incredibly hard at the violin and the piano that even the super-duper-overgifted prodigies that start at 6 and practice >>4h/day between 10 and 22 years have nearly zero chance to become a renown soloist. At best, a career as a second violinist in a more or less known orchestra. More probably, a career as a professor who will have zero professional among his pupils.

The flute and also the clarinet and the trumpet are bad too.

Compare with the bassoon (needs some money), the oboe, the tuba and some others: students start around 12 (often after an other instrument little practised), practice rather <3h/day and at 20 they have chances of being a professional. This looks more like a reasonably risky investment.


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## Enthalpy

One more point:

If your daughter isn't extremely over-gifted, she has exactly zero chance of becoming a professional violinist or pianist, whatever practice time she spends. That's strictly unfair, scandalous, outrageous, call it as you want, but it's that way.

Then, the 3 hours a day would be a loss from the first to the last minute. Childhood time is precious.

Problem: the mother, even if she's a musician, is the very last person capable of assessing whether a child is gifted. A professor could, especially if he has already had really gifted pupils. A professor may tell it frankly or not, depending on whether he has too many pupils or not.


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## tdc

Enthalpy said:


> One more point:
> 
> If your daughter isn't extremely over-gifted, she has exactly zero chance of becoming a professional violinist or pianist, whatever practice time she spends. That's strictly unfair, scandalous, outrageous, call it as you want, but it's that way.
> 
> Then, the 3 hours a day would be a loss from the first to the last minute. Childhood time is precious.
> 
> Problem: the mother, even if she's a musician, is the very last person capable of assessing whether a child is gifted. A professor could, especially if he has already had really gifted pupils. A professor may tell it frankly or not, depending on whether he has too many pupils or not.


I agree on many of your points, but I would just caution a bit against the phrase 'extremely over-gifted'. It is often difficult to tell very early how a child's gifts will unfold. Debussy was told by his first musical instructor he had no gift for music. Later on at the conservatory he had teachers that observed he wasn't dedicated enough to become a good pianist. I am glad he did not quit music as a result of any of this advice.


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## Michael122

What is described in the OP, with one exception, is exactly what Paganini, Beethoven, and Lang Lang went through.
The single exception is that they endured grueling practice sessions by an overbearing/abusive parent for at least double {In Lang's & Paganini's cases- triple!} the amount of hours stated in the OP.
And, that was e-v-e-r-y single day.
Not that it's any justification, but, in adulthood, all three of them were wealthy with world wide adoration.


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## Michael122

Enthalpy said:


> One more point:
> If your daughter isn't extremely over-gifted, she has exactly zero chance of becoming a professional violinist or pianist, whatever practice time she spends.


Must disagree with this.
The expression, "gifted", is an overused, tired, and cliched term.
It implies that unless the heavens parted on some sunny day and a benevolence descended for the exclusive purpose of touching you on the head, and a light subsequently surrounded you followed by a celestial choir singing in your singular honor, then you have no chance of succeeding no matter how hard you work.
Ridiculous.
There is no such thing as "gifted" or "naturally talented".
What there is- is practice, will, guidance, a goal, dedication, and the discipline to achieve.
Many fine musicians, composers, athletes, artists, etc. have emerged to significance, wealth, and fame with no prior background in their respective fields.


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## progmatist

For me personally, I find how long I practice isn't as important as "WHEN" I practice. If I practice just before bedtime, my retention exponentially multiplies.


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## Dimace

Practice has nothing to do with the time. Absolute nothing. Practice is results. Can I produce results in one hour? This will be my time. Do I need three hours. So much I must practicing. We must have a project (Week, Month, Year - the last gor advance students) a good student's profile for the beginning (school or family could be helpful - after the teacher must know his / her student's limitations) and this way we can proceed. Not a single minute without results! And never expect the children to tell you when this minute starts...


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## Brazing

Practice at least 3 hours a day. More is better.


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## Enthalpy

Michael122 said:


> What is described in the OP, with one exception, is exactly what Paganini, Beethoven, and Lang Lang went through.
> The single exception is that they endured grueling practice sessions by an overbearing/abusive parent for at least double {In Lang's & Paganini's cases- triple!} the amount of hours stated in the OP.
> And, that was e-v-e-r-y single day.
> Not that it's any justification, but, in adulthood, all three of them were wealthy with world wide adoration.


Just like other musicians (like Julia Fischer, one of the very best violinists, and she gives concerts at the piano too) did have a normal childhood and semi-normal youth - except for the time it takes to learn the instrument(s).

And the many young people who did not become musicians, or had no childhood, no youth, and no decent adulthood neither, because their parents' behaviour destroyed them. Example abound of violinists who started _very_ early, were prodigies at 12 or 14, and then didn't play well at 20+.


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## Enthalpy

Michael122 said:


> There is no such thing as "gifted" or "naturally talented".


You must be kidding.

Every violin professor checks and sees which pupil is talented and has a chance of becoming a decent musician.

Training time can't compensate this, because only the over-talented who over-train have a slight chance of becoming a professional.

If the goal is to play oompah-oompah at the local fanfare, it's a different story of course.


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## saboteur

IMHO, children hardly know what they really want. And a choice of parents often leads to hatred for the occupation for life.


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## Michael122

Enthalpy said:


> You must be kidding. Every violin professor checks and sees which pupil is talented and has a chance of becoming a decent musician.
> Training time can't compensate this...


No, I'm not kidding.
Any music teacher that picks one pupil over another is picking the student that dedicated themselves, sacrificed things, and put in the most time on their instrument.
In other words, the amount of training time, not "talent", a pupil puts in is the only reason why a professor is able to see a pupil that is better than the other one and has a serious prospect of not only "becoming a decent musician", but potentially succeeding as a professional musician.
Do you honestly think the pupil practicing 1 hour a day would be as good as the pupil that practices 3 to 5 hours a day?


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## vincula

Yelling at her will destroy many things, her love for music not being the vital one at all. Serious issues will catch up with all of you, let alone your daughter. Any money you may save in private lessons now will vanish into the first two weeks of therapy -if you're lucky to be involved by then. You have been warned.

Regards,

Vincula


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## Michael122

We're overlooking something very important here.
That is: how much does the kid want it?
If the kid is only sitting on the bench because mommy is making her, then all is in vain and the opine in post #33 is potentially accurate.
But if the kid really, really, likes and enjoys practicing and performing an instrument, would rather do that than play with kids in the park, then mom's pressure is moot and the kid's probably ignoring her anyway.


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## Enthalpy

Michael122 said:


> [...] The amount of training time, not "talent", a pupil puts in is the only reason why a professor is able to see a pupil that is better than the other one and has a serious prospect of not only "becoming a decent musician", but potentially succeeding as a professional musician. [...]


No, that's wrong. I didn't put any decent time (maybe 1/2h a week) in practising the violin, but even after 9 years learning, I played better than most other pupils who did practise, just because I was very gifted. This did not result from the effort. Something exists here, though no-one knows what it is, nor how to detect it other than by beginning to learn the instrument.

I didn't become a violinist because I hated playing the instrument (or rather, I hated the professor, who was a dictator) and because my passion was science and technology. I became an engineer instead, one of the few right decisions I made. So I stand firmly by my opinion, that coercing children is counter-productive.


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## SanAntone

Like2know said:


> My daughter is 7 yrs. old and started taking instrument lessons at the beginning of school last year at 6 yrs. old. My wife has a musical background and practices with her. My thought is that she should practice about 45-60 mins. My wife has her practicing on some days 3-4 hrs. In addition to that, she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes. I think 3-4 hrs. of yelling is counterproductive. My daughter starts to cry and doesn't want to practice. I can't blame her. My questions are 1) How long should she be practicing at this age and 2) Should I be concerned about the yelling. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


45 minutes, an hour at most. But the important thing is to practice everyday even if it is 15 minutes. I worked at a music studio where piano lessons were given to children and this was the instruction to parents.


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## Michael122

Enthalpy said:


> No, that's wrong.


No, that's right. For A-N-Y rule there are exceptions.
In your case, by your own declaration, your are one of the few for whom greatness occurred with almost no effort. Half an hour a week- wow! That's impressive, and you probably could have become a concert violinist or close to that level, there can be no doubt. You are the ONLY person I've ever heard of for whom such a minimal effort yielded such a great reward. My hat's off to ya', buddy. Sure wish the heavens would have parted and a benevolence would have descended on me like that. That would also be true for E-V-E-R-Y single person in my personal experience that plays an instrument. Ok, not gonna respond anymore.
You can go ahead and have the last word.


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## Enthalpy

Michael122 said:


> No, that's right. For A-N-Y rule there are exceptions.
> In your case, by your own declaration, your are one of the few for whom greatness occurred with almost no effort. Half an hour a week- wow! That's impressive, and you probably could have become a concert violinist or close to that level, there can be no doubt. You are the ONLY person I've ever heard of for whom such a minimal effort yielded such a great reward. [...]


With that amount of negligence, I only got the level of a good amateur. My comrades had to practice 1/2 to 1h a day to attain the same level. Yes, that's unjust, as much as biology is.

Maybe I could have become a professional if practising 3h a day. My first professor wanted me to become a violinist. That was out of question for me, it didn't happen, so it can only remain a hypothesis.

In any way, it takes this kind of gift AND this amount of work to become a professional violinist, and even then, very few achieve it. Plus, very few violinists, not always the best ones, earn a decent or manageable living among those who play at professional level.

Other example. Nearly every professional violinist has had a lighter school programme to find enough time for the instrument. But Julia Fischer, who is absolutely top on the violin, managed an A-level for science AND learning the violin AND learning the piano, on which she gives professional concerts too. Since the other future professional violinists put all the possible time in the instrument, the only explanation is that she's more gifted.


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## eljr

Like2know said:


> My daughter is 7 yrs. old and started taking instrument lessons at the beginning of school last year at 6 yrs. old. My wife has a musical background and practices with her. My thought is that she should practice about 45-60 mins. My wife has her practicing on some days 3-4 hrs. In addition to that, she constantly yells at her when she makes mistakes. I think 3-4 hrs. of yelling is counterproductive. My daughter starts to cry and doesn't want to practice. I can't blame her. My questions are 1) How long should she be practicing at this age and 2) Should I be concerned about the yelling. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


You are both wrong, sorry, that may sound hard but it true. She should practice as much as she cares too. No more, no less.

The goal is a happy well developed child, isn't it?

Yelling while learning? Wow, the memories. I was not only VISIOULY yelled at when I did my lessons as a child but beaten. To this day if a women stands near me on my left and moves quickly I flinch. 60 years later.

I went from "the smartest kid in school" to failing all classes in one years time. I later tested a genius but hardly ever got a passing grade.

Stop you wife now! No matter the cost. Your child is worth it.


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## eljr

BTW, you may want to educate your wife. 
Science has made clear that a skill such as we are discussing is best perfected through concentrated repetition. 

Being yelled at negates any concentration on the activity and yields no wanted results in that arena.

She is not accomplishing what she wants and the child is SUFFERING. 

BTW, my "practice sessions" ended with my mom being committed for a few weeks.


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## Heck148

Practicing is really an art form - the aspiring musician needs to think it thru, use the time wisely....obviously, a good teacher should be showing the student how to practice...at some point, the student can take over for him/herself....
Time-wise remember - *quality over quantity* -

When at conservatory - one is expected to practice for hours and hours....fine....go for it...
once one enters the real world of jobs, relationships, marriages, kids, it changes, drastically - suddenly you just don't have 5-6 hours to practice....you're dead tired, you have to pick up the kids, make dinner, shovel snow, fix the car, etc, etc....
you have to get smart and use your time wisely...

hours spent practicing "wrong" are not only wasted, they are destructive...
before practicing, get set in your mind what it is you want to accomplish, what needs work....very concentrated practice for one hour, focused intently on specific issues will be far more beneficial than practicing 4-5 hours, unfocused, with no real goal or objective in mind. 
also - divide things up - for wind instrument players:

devote a good portion of time on long tones [the dreaded long tones :lol:!!] - while playing them - really center on producing, sustaining a good sound on every note - "know" where that sound lies on the horn...hear it before you play it...make crescendo/diminuendo - no pitch fluctuation, no wobbles, or unevenness, play very soft, very loud, always even...concentrate - 15 mins can be exhausting!!
move on to technical exercises - scales and arpeggios - slowly, evenly cleanly....gradually increase speed, but always maintain accuracy...

then, no particular order:
work on lesson assignments, 
work on solo material
work on ensemble parts [band, orchestra, chamber groups]
sight read - set tempo, stay with it, no stopping...

if you are short on time pick the ones most needing attention....don't skip long tones or technique....they are essential.

again - 1 hour of very focused, concentrated practice will produce far better results than 5 hours of unfocused playing with no objective.


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## Heck148

Practicing intelligently is a very important skill to develop - perhaps the most important when learning to play an instrument...

When I taught instrumental music - public school, and community music school - I always stressed good practicing skills, and productive use of time...
Often, very good students would be working on a difficult piece, with technical challenges...so often, the poor student would come in, frustrated - obviously they had been practicing for hours on the fast passages, and simply could not get master them...the frustrated student would be beside themselves, having spent hours, and not getting anywhere -

the _bad news_ - they had very often "practiced" in mistakes - they were playing it too fast, wrong, and had now trained themselves to keep playing it incorrectly....the _good news_ - this is pretty easy to correct, using the right practice method:

_"slow and easy wins the race"; "if you can't play it slow, you can't play it fast"; "do not practice, train yourself to play mistakes" _are some of the concepts to observe...

I would tell the students, every time - by the end of today's lesson, you will play this passage perfectly, every time....incredulous, they would invariably claim it was impossible, will never happen....of course, I was right - the catch being, I didn't specify at what tempo they would play...

go slow!! I would have them play so slow, that every note came out correctly - right notes, good sound, good pitch....if necessary - the 16th note passages would be played as half notes, quarter notes, even slower, if necessary - steady tempo, note perfect...

"but it's not fast enough!!" - nonsense - slow and perfect has great musical value, fast and wrong/sloppy has little or no musical value....when they played it 3 times correctly, we'd increase the tempo by a click or 2 on the metronome....again - accuracy!! each time they played it 3 times correctly, we'd increase the speed....so - true to my promise - the student has now played the passage perfectly, numerous times, with no error...In one lesson, we very likely would not get it up to tempo - but now, the student saw the process, could see its success, and could work at home to improve - little by little...within a couple of lessons, it would be falling into place nicely...

the interesting thing is - once the "mistakes" have been ironed out, isolated, eliminated - the fingers, the embouchure, etc can very quickly adapt to the correct patterns....usually there were just one or two errors involved....clean those up, and it falls in place quickly...but *slow practice is the key*....find those errors, those faults, isolate them, correct them, and you're on your way!!


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## Nate Miller

I've played all my life and I still perform from time to time, and one thing I have noticed in my life spent among musicians is that most people really don't understand how much time it takes to learn an instrument to the point that you can play as if your instrument was an extension of your body.

I have heard it said that it takes 1,000 hours to get comfortable with an instrument. Whether or not that's is true, let's pretend that it is for a minute....

that means if you practice an hour a day EVERY day it will take you about 3 years. and that's just "comfortable". you'll still have a ways to go to get pretty good.

if you practice 3 hours a day EVERY day, it will still take you about a year

most every good player I ever knew spent about 8 hours a day for 4 years at some point in their life.

and what Heck says about practice is very true. If you're playing all those hours without being mentally engaged, then you really aren't getting the benefits of the time you would be putting in. Enjoy the process is the best advice I can give. The hardest days are your first ones, really. Its gets easier as you start to put days together

A violinist once told me that to play the violin, one must have a very active fantasy life or you'll never get through the first 15 years of playing the silly thing


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## Enthalpy

Nate Miller said:


> [...] if you practice an hour a day EVERY day it will take you about 3 years. and that's just "comfortable" [...]


This depends on the instrument...

On the saxophone it went faster. I practised less than one hour (the lip limits it) and not every day, but I felt comfortable after less than a year. What I didn't achieve was the sound I wanted.
The flute took me less than 3 years too.
BUT the bassoon... I play around 90mn a day, a least 330 days a year, for 2.5 years now. That's >1200h. And I don't feel comfortable by any means. Nor can I play the music I did on the saxophone, by very far. Playing by ear fails too, while I could on my other 5 instruments. The bizarre thingy is just - difficult.


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## Nate Miller

I agree that some instruments are harder than others. Also which instruments you already know makes a difference. I'm a string player, so if I picked up a flute it would take me longer than it did for you. But the point I'm making is that professional musicians spend more time at their craft than alot of people would imagine.


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