# Best piece of classical muisc



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

What do you think is the most important, the greatest work of classical music. It doesn't have to be your favourite, but the greatest achievement throughout the all of the classical genre, including baroque, romantic, and classical 20th century.

In my opinion the greatest in Beethoven's 9th symphony. An absolutely outstanding work which was written by someone who was deaf and never even heard it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Best. 
Most important. 
Greatest. 
Not your favourite.

The only one of the four terms you use to describe what you want to discuss that actually means something is the last one.


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## unpocoscherzando (Sep 24, 2011)

I would suggest Bach's B Minor Mass.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> In my opinion the greatest in Beethoven's 9th symphony. An absolutely outstanding work which was written by someone who was deaf and never even heard it.


And we who know a spot about reading scores will object to the universal importance of "hearing" music, as long as you can read a score You really "don't need" an orchestra/musicians to hear what is written (having an orchestra/musicians add another dimension, but is not an absolute necessity)! And LvB surely heard the whole thing in his head... n'est-ce pas?

As I don't care much for the ninth, I won't debate it's outstandingness!

/ptr


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I count the 9th as one of my favorites because of the triumphant way it makes me feel. Other than that it is not so significant unless I think of it as a benchmark, a representative work from the composer standing almost exactly in the center of music history from baroque to the present. Then again, that's pretty significant.

Monteverdi's _L'Orfeo_ or Stravinsky's _ Le Sacre du printemps_ may be of more import in music history.


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## Kazaman (Apr 13, 2013)

What a strange question; surely classical music is too diverse for it to have an answer. Every era and movement since the Ancient Greeks has had monumentally important works produced, and I really don't think there's a non-silly metric to pit them against one another ...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Beethoven's Op. 111. I'm sure this is quite obvious to all.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

In centuries to come, people will look back on Takemitsu _From Me Flows What You Call Time_ as the apex of the western classical tradition, from which decline was necessarily inevitable - _not_ merely "necessary" nor even merely "inevitable" but indeed "necessarily inevitable" - for both theoretical and cultural reasons.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

science said:


> In centuries to come, people will look back on Takemitsu _From Me Flows What You Call Time_ as the apex of the western classical tradition, from which decline was necessarily inevitable - _not_ merely "necessary" nor even merely "inevitable" but indeed "necessarily inevitable" - for both theoretical and cultural reasons.


Ah, Toru "Tintinnabulation" Takemitsu (his friends called him that ). Not sure he's in the "western classical tradition," but if he is, I'd place the start of the decline at _Quotation of Dream_.

Naughty Toru, crashing civilizations like that!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

KenOC said:


> Ah, Toru "Tintinnabulation" Takemitsu (his friends called him that ). Not sure he's in the "western classical tradition," but if he is, I'd place the start of the decline at _Quotation from Dream_.


Your chronology is right and that in practical terms amounts to scientific confirmation that would overwhelm even the pig-headedest skeptic.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I would probably go with Bach's _Well Tempered Clavier_ or Wagner's _Ring_... although Beethoven's 9th would be among my top choices.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Missa Solemnis.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I could never come up with such an answer so I'll post one that makes me feel like no other:


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Ah, Toru "Tintinnabulation" Takemitsu (his friends called him that ). Not sure he's in the "western classical tradition," but if he is, I'd place the start of the decline at _Quotation of Dream_.
> 
> Naughty Toru, crashing civilizations like that!


Takemitsu is clearly (and obviously for everybody having ears) in the "western classical tradition". Ugh, it seems that for some people the only composer in the "western classical tradition" is Beethoven... Sorry, but classical music didn't start in the classical period, and certainly did not end there.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Most likely this...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

aleazk said:


> Takemitsu is clearly (and obviously for everybody having ears) in the "western classical tradition". Ugh, it seems that for some people the only composer in the "western classical tradition" is Beethoven... Sorry, but classical music didn't start in the classical period, and certainly did not end there.


Did something I say call forth that bit of vituperation? Please let me know so I can try to improve myself. And thanks! 

BTW it's pretty clear that Takemitsu was neither of one culture or the other, but of both. He started out inspired by Western modernist music, but later became quite involved with the Japanese tradition. From Wiki:

"When, from the early 1960s, Takemitsu began to "consciously apprehend" the sounds of traditional Japanese music, he found that his creative process, "the logic of my compositional thought was torn apart", and nevertheless, "hogaku [traditional Japanese music ...] seized my heart and refuses to release it". In particular, Takemitsu perceived that, for example, the sound of a single stroke of the biwa or single pitch breathed through the shakuhachi, could "so transport our reason because they are of extreme complexity ... already complete in themselves". This fascination with the sounds produced in traditional Japanese music brought Takemitsu to his idea of ma (usually translated as the space between two objects), which ultimately informed his understanding of the intense quality of traditional Japanese music as a whole..."


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Did something I say call forth that bit of vituperation? Please let me know so I can try to improve myself. And thanks!
> 
> BTW it's pretty clear that Takemitsu was neither of one culture or the other, but of both. He started out inspired by Western modernist music, but later became quite involved with the Japanese tradition. From Wiki:
> 
> "When, from the early 1960s, Takemitsu began to "consciously apprehend" the sounds of traditional Japanese music, he found that his creative process, "the logic of my compositional thought was torn apart", and nevertheless, "hogaku [traditional Japanese music ...] seized my heart and refuses to release it". In particular, Takemitsu perceived that, for example, the sound of a single stroke of the biwa or single pitch breathed through the shakuhachi, could "so transport our reason because they are of extreme complexity ... already complete in themselves". This fascination with the sounds produced in traditional Japanese music brought Takemitsu to his idea of ma (usually translated as the space between two objects), which ultimately informed his understanding of the intense quality of traditional Japanese music as a whole..."


It's of course true that Takemitsu was influenced by his roots, as can be heard in the music and in his writings. But, to my opinion, he does that over a very occidental core, with influences of Debussy, Schoenberg, and Messiaen.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

aleazk said:


> It's of course true that Takemitsu was influenced by his roots, as can be heard in the music and in his writings. But, to my opinion, he does that over a very occidental core, with influences of Debussy, Schoenberg, and Messiaen.


Indeed. In fact the piece I mentioned (Quotation of Dream) can be heard as a meditation on La Mer.


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

Too hard to decide!


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## maestro57 (Mar 26, 2013)

It would have to be ANYTHING by LvB.


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## Borodin (Apr 8, 2013)

I somehow stumbled into the mall yesterday, and the first thing I found was a book where the author said "Borodin was without question the greatest composer who ever lived." Funny right? Well I would never say such a thing honestly. Greatest is something I cannot answer, but at least there is someone on my side if I so happen to make the claim.

In this scenario, best = subjective right? A million people could agree on the best "musician" in the world, doesn't mean he/she would meet my standards of excellence and beauty.

So why purposefully think for others and not myself? I don't know the way their minds work. The best piece of music _is_ my favorite, I would have no other means to base my choice. Although it would probably be the best passage of music, not the best piece! I'm no good at summing up whole pieces.

My favorite passage goes from about 2:10 - 3:10 



 although I'm sure there are more clear and lovely recordings, this is the best one I've found. If that's too slow for you, I use this as my backup.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

maestro57 said:


> It would have to be ANYTHING by LvB.


Oh good, that's settled then, Wellington's victory it is. Best. Piece. Ever.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Art Rock said:


> Oh good, that's settled then, Wellington's victory it is. Best. Piece. Ever.


Perhaps you don't understand such a consummate masterpiece yet. 

http://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/mahlerian/1144-understanding-wellingtons-victory.html


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

kv466 said:


> I could never come up with such an answer so I'll post one that makes me feel like no other:


My thoughts exactly.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

This is a VERY difficult question, I'll be back


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Easy question for me. Today it is this.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

So why didn't Edgar Varese and George Antheil get married? They could have hired Hedy Lamarr for light housekeeping.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Would have made for one very attractive house keeper thats for sure..............

If they had have lived in New Zealand after yesterdays decision to allow gay marriage they could have!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

science said:


> In centuries to come, people will look back on Takemitsu _From Me Flows What You Call Time_ as the apex of the western classical tradition, from which decline was necessarily inevitable - _not_ merely "necessary" nor even merely "inevitable" but indeed "necessarily inevitable" - for both theoretical and cultural reasons.


Good golly Miss Molly.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

aleazk said:


> Takemitsu is clearly (and obviously for everybody having ears) in the "western classical tradition". Ugh, it seems that for some people the only composer in the "western classical tradition" is Beethoven... Sorry, but classical music didn't start in the classical period, and certainly did not end there.


I see no reason for the Beethoven crack. also as it happens I choose his piano sonatas.
The question is really completely impossible to answer, but who cares ?


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## TitanisWalleri (Dec 30, 2012)

I believe The Planets to be the epitome of the Romantic Period. 
This question also depends on what facet of classical music you are discussing. The modern wind band would not exist with Holst's or Vaughn-Williams' works for wind ensembles.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

TitanisWalleri said:


> The modern wind band would not exist with Holst's or Vaughn-Williams' works for wind ensembles.


I think another guy got there first and is far more popular than either. In 1893 he even helped design a largish wind instrument named after him...


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Holst & Vaughan Williams Band Music*



TitanisWalleri said:


> I believe The Planets to be the epitome of the Romantic Period.
> This question also depends on what facet of classical music you are discussing. The modern wind band would not exist with Holst's or Vaughn-Williams' works for wind ensembles.


'TitanisWalleri' is referring to concert band music as oppose to marches. With the exception of some operettas, Sousa rarely composed non-march symphonic music. (Note: I played one non-march Sousa concert work for band: _Easter Monday on the White House Lawn_. It was a charming work but his marches are much better. Sousa could compose a great march but that was about it. He could never compose a "Chaconne" like Holst did in his _First Suite_.)

The Sousa Band would frequently perform at ballroom dances. The patrons would do a dance called the two-step to the marches.

The band works of Holst and Vaughan Williams were straight concert works. The scoring techniques they employed were radically different then those used by Sousa. For example, I do not know of any saxophone solo in any Sousa work that is like the solo in the first movement of Holst's _First Suite_.

As a bassoon player I know that the typical bassoon part in a Sousa march is nothing like the bassoon parts in the concert band works of Holst and Vaughan Williams. The bassoon part in Vaughan Williams's _Toccata Marziale_ is much more challenging than any bassoon part I have seen in any work by Sousa.

I learned much of the above in a course of the history of the wind band in graduate school. Our textbook was Richard Franco Goldman's _The Wind Band, Its Literature and Technique_. Of course around here anything that a person might learn in a music course in a university setting is invalid.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> 'TitanisWalleri' is referring to concert band music as oppose to marches. With the exception of some operettas, Sousa rarely composed non-march symphonic music.


In fact, I was (maybe) being a bit wry. But I wonder if concert bands would have such a popularity if it weren't for the earlier street bands playing the marches of Sousa, Bagley, and others. These marches are still popular in fine new arrangements, played mostly by the bands of the armed forces, our and others. One of my favorite Sousa discs is played by the Central Air Force Band of the Japanese Self Defense Force!

Moving on, I think I have everything written for band by Holst. One of my favorites is Hammersmith, Prelude and Scherzo, which may be too abstract for many band fans. Other favorites include Gould's West Point Symphony, Jacob's Suite William Byrd, and of course that wonderful old window-rattler, the Crown Imperial (the band version of course). Share it with your neighbors -- or use it next time you get an award for something!

Farther back, the best versions of Handel's Fireworks Music are for band. Wasn't that how it was originally scored? Think so, but won't check now...


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## TheFeeling (Apr 19, 2013)

I would have to say the Große Fuge, op.133.

I can't listen to it over and over, or on any low quality speakers, but I feel it pushed the boundaries of music further than any of Beethoven's works. I can't really say how much it affected music, I don't really think anyone can, however I can say it pushed the boundaries of what I viewed as music. Personally I envision it as the telling of a battle scene, very frantic and lots of death, perhaps the low points being leaders.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Wagner's Tristan und Isolde.


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

Blue Danube.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

science-In centuries to come, people will look back on Takemitsu From Me Flows What You Call Time as the apex of the western classical tradition, from which decline was necessarily inevitable - not merely "necessary" nor even merely "inevitable" but indeed "necessarily inevitable" - for both theoretical and cultural reasons.

moody- Good golly Miss Molly.

Indeed, you are quite right, moody. Chuck Berry's _Good Golly Miss Molly_ may have just as much if not more chance of being looked back at the apex of the Western "Classical" Tradition than Takemitsu... whose music I quite love let me make clear (before someone else goes off on a bender).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Skepticism is cheap, folks. When you get ready to die, have your head cryogenically frozen, come back in 2300, and tell the future that, boom, the poster formerly known as "science" called it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ha! If you want to identify the beginning of the decline of Western civilization (musical or otherwise), look no farther than...Beethoven! Takemitsu, Chuck Berry, Little Richard -- merely death rattles.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Impossible! There are 'landmark' pieces, either summing up the body of music to that moment, sometimes also 'pushing it forward,' others which seem to have burst the seams of prior convention and led to a completely different approach by later composers, and other seeming near 'permanent' masterpieces which have become nearly a global myth, so readily accepted are they.

And you intend to actually find 'one?' Even a handful of 'ones' will be so far from an adequate, let alone actually satisfactory, "answer."

I more than doubt it.


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