# Effective Writing Methods, Instrumentation and Structures



## DreamInSong

Hi, I'm a pianist and been playing for twelve years. I'm also an amateur composer and I've been writing for ten of those years. I'm not really sure what genre my writings are (just as I'm sure many of you avoid genre labels), but my compositions have often been described as ballades or melodic compositions. If I had to guess, I'd imagine they can be classified as rock (since that's 80% of what I listen to, I'm sure the influence is there). 

Anyway, the majority of my pieces are for solo piano; however, I'm no longer satisfied with writing just for one instrument. I'd like to be able to start writing more complex and layered songs. The major problem is that I do the majority of my writing through improvisation. This can prove difficult when attempting to write a part for another instrument and I'm unable to write unless I'm at a piano. I was hoping you all might share some of your writing methods, the advantages and disadvantages of each, and where do you find inspiration? For those of you who write lyrics, do you write the music first and then the lyrics? Are they written together? etc...

Another problem that comes with improvising on piano, is that I have no idea about the capabilities of the other instruments, things like: Can a guitar easily play this note and then this one? Which notes can violins play together? At what point is a note excessively high for a french horn? What general dynamics should I use to allow for each instrument to be clearly heard? Perhaps you all will be able to answer some of these questions. Any tips on writing for a specific instrument would be superb! 

Additionally, my old piano teacher recommended a book for me a while back, I've forgotten the name, but it supposedly answers questions such as these. If anyone knows of such a work, I'd thank you for its name.

The next issue I'd like to tackle is percussion. I've never written anything for percussion (unless you count piano) and have no idea what an ideal rhythm section should do for the music. I'd want it to compliment the music, but what have you all found to be effective methods for that? Should it emulate the melody, create a contrast or just stick to the beat?

Finally, structure. Most of my songs are structure and well-formed, but writing through improvisation is tricky. It can be difficult to find and ending and commit to it; to hit a climax, come back down and stop. Hopefully, the writing methods you all suggest will help out with this problem. One thing that I've found to help, is to go into writing with a structure in mind. I'm not sure if there is a name for this, but my personal favorite is A-B-C-B-D-E-A'. If you all could teach me a bit about different structures, it would really help my music. What does the structure of a prelude look like? A nocturne? A symphony? etc... Most importantly, how can use structure to create the falls and climaxes I envision? 

Thank you all very much for reading my mass of text, and thank you for your suggestions.


----------



## Aramis

If you want to start composing classical, first step is to listen. The structures, factures, even many techniques by only listening you shall understand. If you have good ear. With your experience, I guess that you have it.

If you composed rock and stuff for so long you will have a lot of terrible rabbits to get rid of. There are many baboons that will tell you something diffrent, but the truth is that you can not be both good composer of popular music and classical music. 

RENOUNCE ALL THAT YOU WAS BEFORE

TRAVEL TO MOUNTAIN HITKOPATLAPITOYATUIAHYMALIPATAYAULA 

THERE YOUR DESTINY SHALL YOU FIND

And there is nothing wrong in composing by the piano. Even greats did it this way. Me, for example.


----------



## SuperTonic

First, I would recommend you get a book on orchestration. There are many available. They are an invaluable reference when dealing with instruments that you are not as familiar with. A good book would answer most of the questions you posed above about any instrument.

I would also recommend that you start off composing for smaller groups of instruments first, before you start composing for larger ensembles. You may want to focus on a specific group of instruments for a while, like stringed instruments for example, and only write music for those instruments until you feel comfortable with the capabilities and limitations of those instruments. You should also be sure to show your work to musicians who play the instruments in question for feedback, even if your work is incomplete.


----------



## Argus

Aleatory


----------



## Nix

As said above, listen to classical music, start writing small (chamber groups) and write for people you know and who will play it. 

The book your teacher mentioned was probably "Adler: Study of Orchestration." That's the standard textbook for composition students.


----------



## DreamInSong

Aramis said:


> If you composed rock and stuff for so long you will have a lot of terrible rabbits to get rid of. There are many baboons that will tell you something diffrent, but the truth is that you can not be both good composer of popular music and classical music.


What habits (rabbits), are you referring to?

Also, my music is neither classical nor popular music. I saw my piano teacher today, for the first time in a year, she compared my music to Yes "Close to the Edge." That's progressive rock in my opinion. She also told me the book I was looking for, Essential Dictionary of Orchestration.

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone! The next piece I'll be writing is a string quartet  I'll also be writing another song with a friend soon as well. I don't know what style it will be, but I'm anticipating folk.


----------



## MJTTOMB

Before you start that string quartet, be sure you actually know what that form entails.


----------



## DreamInSong

If you don't mind, would explain to me what your standard string quartet entails?


----------



## MJTTOMB

It's generally a basic sonata cycle, thus a work in four distinct movements. The first is in a sonata-allegro form, the second generally is a slower tempo in a different key. The third is often a minuet and trio or a scherzo and trio, essentially a dance movement. The fourth movement is often in the key of the first movement, and is the fastest of all the movements, generally in either sonata-allegro form or a rondo of some sort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_quartet

Really wouldn't have taken much research on your part at all to find that.


----------



## DreamInSong

Wikipedia! Of course, my apologies


----------



## Nix

MJTTOMB said:


> It's generally a basic sonata cycle, thus a work in four distinct movements. The first is in a sonata-allegro form, the second generally is a slower tempo in a different key. The third is often a minuet and trio or a scherzo and trio, essentially a dance movement. The fourth movement is often in the key of the first movement, and is the fastest of all the movements, generally in either sonata-allegro form or a rondo of some sort.


But of course we're living in 21st century so this hardly applies. But it would be good to listen and study other string quartets before starting your own- and ones from different eras. 
I would suggest listening to a late Beethoven/late Schubert, the Debussy, and maybe a Bartok quartet. If you want to know what sorts of sounds you can get out of the ensemble, and how to structure them, these are good models.


----------



## MJTTOMB

They're great models for someone with a good grasp of theory, I agree, but for someone who's just beginning it's a good introduction to concepts of form.


----------



## Aramis

> What habits (rabbits), are you referring to?


Simplistic progression in left hand, for example. People that make/listen to popular music are used to static background in bass sections that is changing according to the rule "play this motive till that point, then play it X higher, then go back to previous form". Coming out with short bass motive that will give the piece groove and then adding more melodic material in right hand doesn't work in classical.


----------



## DreamInSong

I suppose I do something similar to that; fortunately though, I've been concentrating on writing the melodies with my left-hand recently. It helps me avoid what you are you are referring to, and it also helps me avoid those melodic patterns my right-hand has grown accustom to during improvisations. My melodies thus become more well thought out and memorable.


----------

