# Late Beethoven: Sonatas or quartets?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I've secretly placed the late piano sonatas above the quartets, if only by a smidgeon. So I'm not saying the quartets are chopped liver! But I think this is a minority view.

How about you? Sonatas or quartets, or is it silly to compare these? (The answer to that last is of course "yes," but let's do it anyway.)


----------



## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Ken, I'm with you. 

As a piano-phile, I find myself drawn more to the sonatas.

Love the string quartets too, of course.


----------



## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

I love both of them. But I think Beeethoven go further with his quartets. He jumps 100 years in musical history with his late quartets and 70 years with his late sonatas.


----------



## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't have a clear favourite, and despite being a piano guy I would guesstimate that I listen to the quartets more often!

/ptr


----------



## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

I listen to the quartets more often but I'm not sure if that means that I like them more. I mean, it could just be that strings are more often on my mind - string instruments, that is - and so I just kind of drift to the late quartets more often. Then again I've listened to the first movement of the farewell sonata probably more times than anything else by Beethoven. That is extraordinary piece.

I'm not quite sure what mood mr. B is going for in the allegro section of the piece - if we believe Wikipedia, and indeed why shouldn't we, the first subject of the actual sonata form _"portrays deep disturbance"_ - but it always makes me happy and excited, it gives a really good kind of a drive, like some songs by Tom Waits (eg. "New coat of paint"). It might be that I'm mistakenly feeling wrong feelings. I do that a lot. If anyone is into spiritism, say my apologies to good ol' Ludwig van.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Both of course! I used to play piano and violin but listening I lean more towards the quartets lately.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Quartets, no hesitation. Nothing in the piano sonatas as profound as op 131 or even op 135 and op 127. For the best of the piano music you have to go to the Diabelli Variations.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Always the sonatas. Diabelli ain't nothin compared to the Hammerklavier, Waldstein, Appassionata, and #32.

The late sonatas, which to me mean: 28 in A, 29 in B Flat, 30 in E, 31 in A Flat and 32 in 
C minor never cause me to fall asleep like many segments of the late quartets do (as do also, the middle and early quartets too). I always marvel at the incredible humor pervading these great works. What an intellect! Composer and poster meeting at the same level! 

Every so often I play the complete Annie Fischer complete piano set or the Ronald Brautigam complete fortepiano set and I am chastened, delighted and amazed...all at the same time.

Beethoven's best work....the keyboard sonatas.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I place the Diabellis right alongside the late sonatas, which is pretty darned high!


----------



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

For me I find it a hard call to make. The Sonatas have always been a favourite but the string quartets just seem that bit more detailed and rewarding on serious listening
So my mind is made up its the........................ Oh hell i just can't decide


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I have absolutely no idea which I prefer.


----------



## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

A total tossup. Lately I've listened to the quartets more but that's because of the TC String Quartet thread. Playing the piano myself (very poorly) I do tend to return to the sonatas again and again, which is true for other composers who wrote both great quartets and sonatas. Knowing an instrument does give you more of an appreciation for what's involved in pulling off a piece, I've always felt.


----------



## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I'd even make it a three-way tossup: late piano sonatas, string quartets, Missa Solemnis. I would be without none of them.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd hate to choose, so it's a no decision cop-out from me! :lol:


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I've played piano,

Ne'er bowed a string;

But was a singer -

And strings can sing!


I know. I should stick to prose. Quartets for me, but only by a horsehair.


----------



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Why do we have to choose? Take the whole enchilada.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Late or early I'll go with the piano sonatas. Beethoven on piano (whether it be concertos, trios, violin/cello sonatas etc) is the Beethoven I most enjoy.


----------



## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

For me, the piano sonatas just shade it from the string quartets, but it's like the difference between Mount Everest and K2. I certainly love deeply Opp. 127, 130/133 and 135.

As well as the late piano sonatas and the Diabelli variations, I also rate very highly the Bagatelles Op 119, nos. 6 - 11 of which are late works from 1820-22 or so, and Op 126, published in 1825, which Beethoven seems to have regarded as a unitary work ("Ciclus von Kleinigkeiten").


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

If I could only save one from falling off a cliff, I'd probably instinctively reach for the sonatas. But then I'd immediately throw myself off! 

You shouldn't do this to us, KenOC!


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I prefer Beethoven's sonatas in all stages of his career. I guess I have always imagined them to be the most direct expression of his personal voice and the genre in which his new tendencies emerge first.


----------



## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

The quartets - they are too gorgeous to lose this poll.


----------



## BillT (Nov 3, 2013)

Sonatas. 

Actually I am amazed that so many of the posters here are choosing the sonatas. I thought I would be in a small minority to choose the sonatas.

- Bill


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

String quartet is not a form I've taken to, by any composer. String trios and quintets are much more interesting to me, and I still don't know why this is. So yes, the piano sonatas, by far, for me...


----------



## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Kieran said:


> String quartet is not a form I've taken to, by any composer.


Even Schubert? I felt like this ... until I got to know Schubert's last four. They have a lot of convincing power. :tiphat:


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Kieran said:


> String quartet is not a form I've taken to, by any composer. String trios and quintets are much more interesting to me, and I still don't know why this is. So yes, the piano sonatas, by far, for me...


Not a trout ready to take the bait I gather .


----------



## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Ken, you must be sadist to ask such a question!  

I'm gonna go against what seems to be the popular answer. I have to give the slightest of edges to the late quartets. While the piano sonatas seem to be Beethoven's most personal and intimate form of expression, there's just something about the quartets that I can't put my finger on. They're quirky, humorous, intimate, coarse, beautiful, profound, "overt", and subtle. I feel there's a greater range of contrasting things going on in the quartets than in the sonatas. You sometimes don't know what to feel or think after hearing one of the late quartets! It's an overload of contradictions and yet everything comes together perfectly. 

Hopefully that made at least some sense.


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Skilmarilion said:


> Even Schubert? I felt like this ... until I got to know Schubert's last four. They have a lot of convincing power. :tiphat:


I tried them on for size and they're more accessible, but I don't know why the string trios and quintets grab me more. I'll give them more time in future, especially the Schubert and Beethoven, because they're so necessary to appreciating the form...


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

As I currently rate String Quartets much higher than solo piano, I must rate Beethoven's Late Quartets higher as well. There's undeniable genius in both so thank the lawd we don't have to choose.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> The quartets - they are too gorgeous to lose this poll.


Plenty of pretty girls in the Miss Universe Pageant. Only one winner.

That's simply the way the G string's wound.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Triplets said:


> Why do we have to choose? Take the whole enchilada.


That's not the way it works. Whichever category wins, you must only listen to that. No exceptions!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

EdwardBast said:


> I prefer Beethoven's sonatas in all stages of his career. I guess I have always imagined them to be the most direct expression of his personal voice and *the genre in which his new tendencies emerge first.*


The sonatas, written for his instrument, were Beethoven's laboratory, where he mixed his chemicals in different ways to see what color they would turn, or whether they would fizz or explode. The "Hammerklavier" probably blew a hole in the ceiling.
What's stunning is how different they all are, surprise after surprise, the strongest expression of Beethoven's questing mind. If this thread were not specifically about the late works I might have to retract my preference for the quartets.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Kieran said:


> String quartet is not a form I've taken to, by any composer. String trios and quintets are much more interesting to me, and I still don't know why this is. So yes, the piano sonatas, by far, for me...


You and me both!


----------

