# Mozart: Early Works vs Later Works



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What words would you utilize to differentiate between early and late works by Mozart?


I think this is a harder question than it seems, if I had to take a stab at it, I'd say his later works stand out more whereas the early stuff blends together a bit more.


You?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Anyone have some words they'd like to contribute?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Early:Charming vs. Laterrofound:

Sometimes I prefer charming to profound, so I listen to some of the early Mozart Symphonies directed by Christopher Hogwood. Never fails to put a smile on my face!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hpowders said:


> Early:Charming vs. Laterrofound:
> 
> Sometimes I prefer charming to profound, so I listen to some of the early Mozart Symphonies directed by Christopher Hogwood. Never fails to put a smile on my face!


Early mozart has "boyish good looks". :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Early mozart has "boyish good looks". :lol:


Yeah. Something like that.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Early: Perfect

Later: Even more perfect :tiphat:


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

You might enjoy this article by Alex Ross regarding Mozart. He listened to the complete Mozart chronologically on his iPod, and he has interesting insights into the prodigy's ability to understand archetypes, and use the to portray real situations:



> Hearing so many premonitions of future masterpieces, I got the feeling that Mozart's brain contained an array of musical archetypes that were connected to particular dramatic situations or emotional states-figures connoting vengeance, reconciliation, longing, and so on. One example appears in "La Finta Semplice," the merry little opera buffa that Mozart wrote when he was twelve. In the finale, when all misunderstandings are resolved, there is a passage marked "un poco Adagio," in which Giacinta and her maid Ninetta ask forgiveness for an elaborate ruse that they have pulled on Giacinta's brothers. "_Perdono_," they sing-"Forgive." Not just the words but the music prefigures the tremendous final scene of "The Marriage of Figaro," in which the wayward Count asks the Countess's forgiveness-"_Contessa, perdono!_"-and she grants it, in a half-hopeful, half-heartbroken phrase. I looked at the New Mozart Edition scores side by side, and noticed that the two passages not only waver between the same happy-sad chords (G major and E minor) but pivot on the same rising bass line (B-C-D-E). It is unlikely that Mozart thought back to "La Finta Semplice" when he composed "Figaro," but the idea of forgiveness apparently triggered certain sounds in his mind.


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/07/24/the-storm-of-style


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Kieran said:


> You might enjoy this article by Alex Ross regarding Mozart. He listened to the complete Mozart chronologically on his iPod, and he has interesting insights into the prodigy's ability to understand archetypes, and use the to portray real situations:
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/07/24/the-storm-of-style


I'll bookmark that and read it later. Seems to contain some spoilers on some of the Operas which I have yet to see.


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

Early: elegant
Later: perfect, divine, profound...


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Kieran said:


> Early: Perfect
> 
> Later: Even more perfect :tiphat:


You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

Like the difference between a literary prodigy who dazzles and charms with his wordsmithing and energetic outbursts as young, but who awes the world with his eloquent insight later in life, when he has developed enough maturity to really have something of substance to say. Late mozart is a poet, always having been gifted in the musical language, who finally has something deeper to share with the world.

He wrote a ghastly amount however, think we'll need to be more specific for more specific answers.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Kieran said:


> Early: Perfect


Ehhh............


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Early works: stuff I don't listen to much.
Later works: stuff I listen to often.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

That depends on what you consider "early." There are a few works he wrote in his late teens that are great by most measures(and therefore stand out from the rest): 



 or this early chamber work 



 as a couple examples.


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## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

Which of Mozart's early works would be the most distinctive, surprising and/or fresh? The Mozart I'm intimately familiar with - _my Mozart_ - is almost entirely the works between 1773-1791 (since String Quartet 12, Piano Sonata 10 etc.) after Mozart's 16th birthday. I've taken time to try to acquaint myself with some of the early string quartets. His balance and grace really start to show in the String Quartet no. 6 which is a rather early work, but some of the themes seem to me very derivative of the Haydn bros. String quartet No. 7 has more originality; its last movement is harmonically very flexible, despite lack of variation in its themes. No. 8 contains some of the most droning background music that I've ever heard from Mozart. It's only in String Quartet No. 9 that we get to hear the "real Mozart" which will culminate in his set of the "Haydn string quartets".

I'm gonna revisit to the early piano and violin sonatas soon. Please, let's here everyone's preferred early Mozart pieces and what makes them stand out.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The later Mozart works . His early ones show astonishing talent for such a young composer, but they're not really more than pleasantly diverting . Some are merely insipid . 
Mozart wrote no fewer than 22 operas in his tragically brief life, but only seven of them are masterpieces : the first being Idomeneo , then Die Entfuhrung , Le Nozze Di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutte , Die Zauberflote and La Clemens Di Tito . 
 I believe I've heard all of them on recordings and most on DVD , but none of the earlier ones is very compelling either musically or dramatically, although there are some attractive individual arias and ensembles in them . I think the best of the earlier ones is "La Finta Giardinera " ( the pretended woman gardener ) . 
Of the symphonies, the greatest are obviously the final three ,39,40 and 41 , with 36 , 35 and 38 coming closest , and the ones beginning in the 20s are very good . But the earlier ones are nowhere near as compelling, pleasant as they are .


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Most people would probably draw a line at K 271 and consider the pieces before as early. Now you seem to draw a line ca. 4 years earlier which only leaves very early stuff. The earliest batch of piano sonatas K 279 -284 is from 1774-75.
You probably know the violin concertI, concertone and first piano concerto K 175 and the symphonies K 183 and 184 The second batch of quartets is considerably more interesting than 1-7; the best early chamber piece is the first string quintet. For the church music there is a champion in this forum who frequently posts links. The largest early choral work is the waisenhausmesse K 139.


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## Aloevera (Oct 1, 2017)

I can't help but feel that his earlier works are overshadowed by his later works. Its hard to appreciate them being able to see the full repertoire (despite there still being many gems) even though even his early works may have still been pushing the boundaries within the context of his time. Still, I'm not sure whether or not I am projecting, but his latter works seemed to be filled with a greater sense of purpose - that its more than just the music, which his earlier works I think lack. That there is some sense of political underpinning as being a voice that had existed doormat for thousands of years finally is able to speak, and while on the surface appears pleasant and dainty - underneath a hidden sense of vengeance. However I do find a higher sense of cleverness and wit in his earlier pieces


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

The early works are just that - works of great craftsmanship by a highly talented kid. The later ones are works of supreme genius.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> For the church music there is a champion in this forum who frequently posts links.


It's interesting we can draw some comparisons-

Bernstein (in his lecture on Mozart's symphony in G minor K.550): [ 8:07 ]
"Do you realize that, that wild, atonal-sounding passage contains every one of the twelve chromatic tones except the tonic note G? ... Take my word for it, that out-burst of chromatic rage is Classically-contained, and so is the climax of this development section, which finds itself in the unlikely key of C-sharp minor, which is as far away as you can get from the home key of G minor."
Missa sancti trinitatis K.167 [ 3:52 ]

Bernstein: [ 2:03 ] "But notice that Mozart's theme is already chromatically formed. And even more so when it repeats."
Missa brevis K.275 [ 3:07 , 3:18 ] , [ 10:33 , 10:58 ] , [ 14:00 , 14:37 ]
Missa brevis K.257 [ 3:57 , 4:10 ] , [ 8:22 , 9:50 ]

Bernstein: [ 2:59 ] "There's that Classical balance we were talking about -chromatic wandering on the top, firmly supported by tonic-and-dominant structure underneath."
Missa brevis K.258 [ 2:53 ~ 3:31 ]

Bernstein: [ 6:02 ] "Even this lead-in to the home key, is chromatically written, firmly held in place by a dominant pedal." 
Missa brevis K.275 [ 7:12 ~ 7:21 ]

Compare the introduction to the K.465 "dissonance" quartet,
and this contrapuntal passage of chromatic fourths in 
Missa sancti Trinitatis K.167 [ 10:47 ]

Also compare K.551/iv with K.192/iii


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

trazom said:


> That depends on what you consider "early." There are a few works he wrote in his late teens that are great by most measures(and therefore stand out from the rest):


Actually I'm quite taken with the whole work
















the melodies of the "Sancta Maria" and "Agnus dei"







Captainnumber36 said:


> Early mozart has "boyish good looks"


"Johann Adolph Hasse, a famous German musician who had lived for long periods in Italy, had become the official composer of the court in Vienna in 1764. After examining Wolfgang, he wrote of him, "I took him through various tests on the harpsichord, on which he let me hear things that are prodigious for his age and would be admirable even for a mature man." Hasse adds, "The boy is moreover handsome, vivacious, graceful, and full of good manners; and knowing him, it is difficult to avoid loving him. I am sure that if his development keeps due pace with his year, he will be a prodigy."
< Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: A Biography / Piero Melograni · 2007 / P. 30 >


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

superhorn said:


> Mozart wrote no fewer than 22 operas in his tragically brief life, but only seven of them are masterpieces : the first being Idomeneo , then Die Entfuhrung , Le Nozze Di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutte , Die Zauberflote and La Clemens Di Tito .


He completed like only 16 of them (and not all of them are even "full-length", similar to how he wrote less than 40 "authentic" symphonies, many of which are "overtures"). The rest are either collaborative works (written in collaboration with other composers), unfinished operas, a miniature opera (K.486), and incidental music.














7:05 



15:30


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## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

I asked which of Mozart's early works would be the most distinctive, surprising and/or fresh? Bad example: string quartet No. 7, despite its harmonic flexibility. I think one of my favorite so far is the Piano Sonata No. 4 (1774) which starts out very slow.


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

superhorn said:


> The later Mozart works . His early ones show astonishing talent for such a young composer, but they're not really more than pleasantly diverting . Some are merely insipid .
> Mozart wrote no fewer than 22 operas in his tragically brief life, but only seven of them are masterpieces : the first being Idomeneo , then Die Entfuhrung , Le Nozze Di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutte , Die Zauberflote and La Clemens Di Tito .
> I believe I've heard all of them on recordings and most on DVD , but none of the earlier ones is very compelling either musically or dramatically, although there are some attractive individual arias and ensembles in them . *I think the best of the earlier ones is "La Finta Giardinera " *( the pretended woman gardener ) .
> Of the symphonies, the greatest are obviously the final three ,39,40 and 41 , with 36 , 35 and 38 coming closest , and the ones beginning in the 20s are very good . But the earlier ones are nowhere near as compelling, pleasant as they are .


It should be heard in the later re-orchestration. Jacobs has recorded it. Don't bother with the plot - it is quite incomprehensible.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Gargamel said:


> I asked which of Mozart's early works would be the most distinctive, surprising and/or fresh?


with K < 200

symphonies 25 (the little g minor) and 26 (a very dramatic "ouverture"). The best symphony of that batch is the A major K 201, though.

concertone K 190 for two violins, a very beautiful double violin concerto

string quintet K 174 (IMO considerably more mature than the first dozen of quartets)

the first real piano concerto K 175 is also very good. Mozart apparently thought it good enough to play it in Vienna as he supposedly composed the rondo K 382 as a new finale (I clearly prefer the original finale (and that's the way it is usually played), I don't like that rondo very much)

I must have liked the divertimento K 131 as I have two recordings but I don't remember anything about it...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Gargamel said:


> I asked which of Mozart's early works would be the most distinctive, surprising and/or fresh? Bad example: string quartet No. 7, despite its harmonic flexibility. I think one of my favorite so far is the Piano Sonata No. 4 (1774) which starts out very slow.


The Marian litany, K.195, and kleine Credomesse, K.192, which were also written in 1774



hammeredklavier said:


> Actually I'm quite taken with the whole work
> 
> 
> 
> ...





hammeredklavier said:


> Also compare K.551/iv with K.192/iii


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I am struck by the presence of great and wonderful early Mozart although much of it is more pleasant and enjoyable than profound and great. The later works are far more reliable - nearly everything is greatly rewarding.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

What was the first "Late work"?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

There is not really "late" Mozart, IMO. (Not mainly because he died so young but because of the difficulty to draw a line somewhere; had he lived only 5 years longer we might have such a line with the Requiem as the first "late work" because his late works might be mostly choral works for St. Stephan, so this new focus could have been used for a dividing line.)
There is "mature" Mozart and many take the piano concerto K 271 as the first "great work" (despite fairly early). There are a few earlier ones such as the violin concertos or the symphonies K 183, 200, 201... that are standard repertoire pieces, though.


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