# Has YouTube increased exposure for classical music or not?



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

With all of the free classical music and concerts on YouTube has this improved people's exposure to classical music or not?

I fear that sales have not improved much due to YouTube... or maybe people are downloading more?


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> With all of the free classical music and concerts on YouTube has this improved people's exposure to classical music or not?
> 
> I fear that sales have not improved much due to YouTube... or maybe people are downloading more?


Well that would indeed be something if Youtube would actually be improving sales. I think every genre is in the same situation here: people listen to their music from youtube and don't buy it anymore.

But I do think that youtube might have increased average people's exposure to classical music. After all, the ease of access plays a big role: to someone who hasn't ever even thought of buying a classical CD or even borrowing one from a library, the fact that one can easily just write something like "moonlight sonata" in youtube will absoutely increase their odds of listening to the piece. Some of the "best of..." -style videos have quite a lot of views: for Beethoven "The best of" -video is at about 7 million views and"6 hour the best of beethoven Classical Music Piano Studying Concentration Playlist Mix" has about 16 million views. I bet a lot of those people who have listened to those videos, wouldn't have listened to Beethoven otherwise.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> "6 hour the best of beethoven Classical Music Piano Studying Concentration Playlist Mix" has about 16 million views.


Bear in mind that a "view" means that somebody has played it right to the bitter end. Good God almighty, 6 hours? I couldn't do that.

Certainly it has increased exposure. How could it not? Must of the western art music canon is now available for free to almost everybody.

Maybe YouTube has increased classical record sales, and maybe it hasn't, but there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. The record labels will just have to figure out how to turn a profit in its presence.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> Well that would indeed be something if Youtube would actually be improving sales. I think every genre is in the same situation here: people listen to their music from youtube and don't buy it anymore.
> 
> But I do think that youtube might have increased average people's exposure to classical music. After all, the ease of access plays a big role: to someone who hasn't ever even thought of buying a classical CD or even borrowing one from a library, the fact that one can easily just write something like "moonlight sonata" in youtube will absoutely increase their odds of listening to the piece. Some of the "best of..." -style videos have quite a lot of views: for Beethoven "The best of" -video is at about 7 million views and"6 hour the best of beethoven Classical Music Piano Studying Concentration Playlist Mix" has about 16 million views. I bet a lot of those people who have listened to those videos, wouldn't have listened to Beethoven otherwise.


I doubt that many of those that listen to Beethoven as background music while studying will come to like classical music, though I'll be glad to be proven wrong.
As for me, if it wasn't for Youtube I wouldn't be writing on this forum today, it was one of those "100 greatest works" lists with some musical bits that got me interested.
I honestly have no idea if Youtube is harming sales, but some people like to "test" a CD in Youtube or Spotify prior to buying it.


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

ahammel said:


> Maybe YouTube has increased classical record sales, and maybe it hasn't, but there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. The record labels will just have to figure out how to turn a profit in its presence.


That's completely true. Bitterness and talks about how the western civilization will end up in flames won't help anyone. Reminds me of a clippinga saw on the internet: on it an old used car salesman was complaining about how the internet has killed his business - and obviously the only solution he had for that was that the internet should be shut down.


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

Der Leiermann said:


> I doubt that many of those that listen to Beethoven as background music while studying will come to like classical music, though I'll be glad to be proven wrong.


It's hard to say. I usually have radio on as a background music and while it usually is just, well, background music, sometimes something suddenly catches my attention. That is actually a major source of new listening for me. I do search for new music also more attentively and coherently, but sometimes it feels that the probability of finding someting that really strikes me is as big as it is with the "wallpaper of sound" method.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> It's hard to say. I usually have radio on as a background music and while it usually is just, well, background music, sometimes something suddenly catches my attention. That is actually a major source of new listening for me. I do search for new music also more attentively and coherently, but sometimes it feels that the probability of finding someting that really strikes me is as big as it is with the "wallpaper of sound" method.


Yes, but I mean people who don't really care for the music, who put on those videos for the sake of having something in the background that doesn't distract them from studying.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

ahammel said:


> Bear in mind that a "view" means that somebody has played it right to the bitter end.


I believe that this is incorrect. Try it out. Cue a video in YT and let it run for a few seconds, then close the tab the video was in and check your YT History: the video will show up as viewed. Also, if you now do a search for the piece, the piece you (hadn't fully) viewed will be faded out to indicate that you already viewed it. The same, if you already had it in your Watch Later list: it will show as having been viewed, when it was not fully viewed. I noticed this also with Auto-Play. Sometimes things I wasn't interested in hearing started to play and I cut them off, but they later showed as having been viewed. Bear this in mind, the next time someone tells you something has gone viral!

As to the OP's queries: I doubt that YT has boosted sales  Not only that, but there are numerous sites that specialize in both assisting the downloading of YT videos and converting them to mp3.

It has, however, increased my exposure to composers and works that I was unfamiliar with, a large number of which I have subsequently purchased, even in exactly the same interpretations as those presented online :tiphat:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> That's completely true. Bitterness and talks about how the western civilization will end up in flames won't help anyone. Reminds me of a clippinga saw on the internet: on it an old used car salesman was complaining about how the internet has killed his business - and obviously the only solution he had for that was that the internet should be shut down.


LOL. Free market competition not bound to purchasers being stuck in one location with only a few options -- or no options -- will do that. Funny the guy never thought to go to the internet to ply his wares, too.

That free market competition often means those who were doing well selling X pieces per year at a certain profit margin are going to have to move more stock at less profit per piece just to stay in place, but that is competition in the marketplace.

Not until the advent of the downloadable could anyone purchase the single track of just _Clair de Lune_ from Debussy's _Suite Bergamasque,_ while now such cherry picking of tops/pops classical favorites is possible, and I would not be surprised if sales of that genre of buyer, via downloads, has actually soared. Those recordings are still the property of some recording company or other, and fees paid. Sell 1,000,000 copies of _Clair de Lune,_ and the dependency upon selling a disc with _Suite Bergamasque_ and several other whole suites or pieces becomes less critical.

Other than a boost by those already classical music fans, I think what is selling is via downloads, or for iPhones and other player apps, and those selections are the cherry-picked most popular, pretty, etc. single movements from pieces. I would also be less than surprised to hear this new availability has much stimulated further purchases of full CDs, with their selections of full pieces as usually programmed, and I'm thinking perhaps cynically that it hasn't at all stimulated much of anybody to get out of their normal environs and purchase a ticket for a recital or concert they sit through -- though I rather hope I'm mistaken there


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> I believe that this is incorrect. Try it out. Cue a video in YT and let it run for a few seconds, then close the tab the video was in and check your YT History: the video will show up as viewed. Also, if you now do a search for the piece, the piece you (hadn't fully) viewed will be faded out to indicate that you already viewed it. The same, if you already had it in your Watch Later list: it will show as having been viewed, when it was not fully viewed. I noticed this also with Auto-Play. Sometimes things I wasn't interested in hearing started to play and I cut them off, but they later showed as having been viewed. Bear this in mind, the next time someone tells you something has gone viral!


Yeah, I know it tells you that you've "viewed" something even if you watch only a few seconds, but I don't think that increases the "viewed n times" count that appears under the video. I wasn't able to confirm or deny by experiment just now because of database latency. Any google employees around who could tell us?


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

1) Yes

2) Who would have thought a passing mention in Fifty Shades of Grey would have 'revived' interest in Tallis' Spem in alium?

2.1) Who would have thought the mediocre erotica that Fifty Shades of Grey is would become the popular phenomenon it became?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I use Naxos Music Library and youtube to preview works that I do not know. If I find one that I really like, I put it on my "To buy" list. Without hearing a work, I will never (or almost never) buy it. So in my case, youtube has certainly increased my CD sales. It may be the case that the particular performer or label that I hear on youtube is not the same CD I purchase.

When I was young, I listened to popular music on the radio. The radio exposed me to songs that I later purchased. Unfortunately, the classical music station I listen to generally doesn't play much of the music I'm interested in previewing. They play very little modern music, and although they play a large selection of earlier music, it may not be what I want to focus on at the moment. Naxos and youtube allow me to sample exactly what I want to preview (often from TC suggestions).


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## Dave Whitmore (Oct 3, 2014)

Der Leiermann said:


> I doubt that many of those that listen to Beethoven as background music while studying will come to like classical music, though I'll be glad to be proven wrong.
> As for me, if it wasn't for Youtube I wouldn't be writing on this forum today, it was one of those "100 greatest works" lists with some musical bits that got me interested.
> I honestly have no idea if Youtube is harming sales, but some people like to "test" a CD in Youtube or Spotify prior to buying it.


That's pretty much how I got into classical. A "popular classical music" video on YouTube. I listened, enjoyed, listened to a few more. Then I started picking out various composers and became hooked.

I have no idea if YT is boosting sales. But in my case I am now buying classical music cds, something I wasn't doing until I listened to the music on YT. So it certainly boosted sales in my case. I'm sure others are doing the same.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> 2) Who would have thought a passing mention in Fifty Shades of Grey would have 'revived' interest in Tallis' Spem in album?


What, really? Spem in Alium is about the least BDSM piece of music I can think of.


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

Speaking on my own experience, YouTube has introduced me to so much music from so many lost or forgotten composers. It's easy access is also directly responsible for my better appreciating composers that I didn't previously give a lot of time to, or listen to their lesser known works. It's also a good tool that has enabled me to make more informed decisions on purchases. 

There's certainly something beneficial to be said about it.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> 1)2.1) Who would have thought the mediocre erotica that Fifty Shades of Grey is would become the popular phenomenon it became?


Not surprising at all, considering the vapid and debauched stupidity of our society.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

YouTube has increased exposure for everything under the sun. And it's not true that people just listen and don't buy music anymore. I would guess that those kinds of people didn't pay for music in the first place. I find it invaluable for previewing unfamiliar works. As a result of forums like this and YouTube, I've purchased more music this past year than ever before.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Morimur said:


> Not surprising at all, considering the vapid and debauched stupidity of our society.


Curious if you think our society is more vapidly and debauchedly stupid than previous societies, or if you had lived in previous years you would have pronounced a different opinion. Just asking!


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

starthrower said:


> And it's not true that people just listen and don't buy music anymore.


Interestingly, studies show that people who pirate music and movies tend to buy more than people who don't. I use YouTube as an ultra-detailed search engine


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## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

I will never buy a CD. I have not bought a CD since probably 2001. I don't commonly listen to the radio

So yes.


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## candi (Nov 15, 2014)

mmsbls said:


> I use Naxos Music Library and youtube to preview works that I do not know. ... Without hearing a work, I will never (or almost never) buy it. So in my case, youtube has certainly increased my CD sales. It may be the case that the particular performer or label that I hear on youtube is not the same CD I purchase.


I use youtube to preview the specific CD i'm targeting and to compare to other recordings. If i can't hear it, I don't buy it.

The only drawback is when I get too picky. It's two weeks and I can't choose which Allegri.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

ahammel said:


> Maybe YouTube has increased classical record sales, and maybe it hasn't, but there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. The record labels will just have to figure out how to turn a profit in its presence.


I came across this interesting fact in a story about Naxos recently:



> When Naxos began, Heymann proved that you could make money selling tens of thousands of copies of works nobody had ever heard of; as CD sales gradually declined, the company has variously relied on proceeds from digital downloads, audio books, and other ventures. Today, it looks to YouTube, where a tool called Content ID crawls the site, figures out how many of a given company's videos are illegally posted, and - rather than removing the videos - calculates that company's share of advertising revenue. "That's become an income stream," says Heymann, estimating that it covers about 75 percent of his recording budget.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/enter...231344-1877-11e2-9855-71f2b202721b_story.html

I'm not sure how it works, exactly, or who exactly is footing the bill. But apparently Naxos--and presumably other labels--are making significant profits from people who use Youtube.

Unlike from scum like myself who mostly purchase used cds--but I digress.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Youtube has certainly increased my exposure. Though I initially discovered classical music through CDs, most of the great modern works I have heard I first found on Youtube. It helps that it's free and sometimes one can find synchronised scores.


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