# How does the listener (subconsciously) know what scale a melody is being played in?



## youngcapone

I made a simple melody in FL studio that was in C Major. The melody consisted of two phrases both of which started on D. The only difference between the two is the second phrase ended on C (the tonic of C major). The only problem is, it didn’t feel resolved ending on the tonic like I thought it would. When I changed the last note of the tonic to a D it sounded resolved even though D is not the tonic of C Major. After looking further into it, I realized that all the notes I used were also in D Dorian as well as C Major. So, my question is what defines a melody as being in a certain key to the listener? What makes the listener want to hear notes in a certain scale within a melody or resolve on the tonic of a certain scale?


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## Woodduck

This is really the same thread as the other one you just started. Why is the tonic so important for melodies? It would be better to keep the discussion in one place. You should ask the moderators to shut one of the threads down.


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## amfortas

Woodduck said:


> This is really the same thread as the other one you just started. Why is the tonic so important for melodies? It would be better to keep the discussion in one place. You should ask the moderators to shut one of the threads down.


At least.
Did I say that out loud?


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## millionrainbows

*How does the listener (subconsciously) know what scale a melody is being played in?*

I do it by ear. If you can't hear it, you need more ear training maybe. Or maybe you should consider building pianos rather than playing them. No offense intended.


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## millionrainbows

Woodduck said:


> This is really the same thread as the other one you just started. Why is the tonic so important for melodies? It would be better to keep the discussion in one place. You should ask the moderators to shut one of the threads down.


You should just report it to the mods yourself if it bothers you.


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## Woodduck

millionrainbows said:


> You should just report it to the mods yourself if it bothers you.


I had enough respect for the originator of the thread to grant him that prerogative. He's new here. I'm not in the business of shutting down other people's threads. Are you?


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## millionrainbows

Woodduck said:


> I had enough respect for the originator of the thread to grant him that prerogative. He's new here. I'm not in the business of shutting down other people's threads. Are you?


That was just a suggestion, since I assume that you are _very familiar_ with the reporting process.


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## Woodduck

millionrainbows said:


> That was just a suggestion, since I assume that you are _very familiar_ with the reporting process.


You should direct your suggestions to people who need or want them - in this case the OP. I can't think of any circumstances in which any suggestion from you would be useful or welcome to me.

You're just poking the bear. Don't.


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## millionrainbows

Woodduck said:


> You should direct your suggestions to people who need or want them - in this case the OP. I can't think of any circumstances in which any suggestion from you would be useful or welcome to me. You're just poking the bear. Don't.





> You should direct your suggestions to people who need or want them - in this case the OP.


As far as suggestions, I already offered advice to the OP in post #4.

The implication here is that I should not reply to your posts, but only address the OP. That's not how things work here. Like I have learned the hard way, if I post on the forum, I should expect some replies, some welcome, some useful, some not.



> I can't think of any circumstances in which any suggestion from you would be useful or welcome to me.


I think you could use my blog _New Conceptions of Musical Time _and apply it to _Parsifal.
_


> You're just poking the bear. Don't.


I would expect the same from you.


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## Barbebleu

If I was the OP I would take real offence at sentence three in post #4.


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## millionrainbows

Barbebleu said:


> If I was the OP I would take real offence at sentence three in post #4.


Well if it wasn't for people like me, there would be no artists vowing,_ "Because of what he said, I shall devote my life to proving him wrong!"_


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## Woodduck

Barbebleu said:


> If I was the OP I would take real offence at sentence three in post #4.


It may explain why he seems to have disappeared. That's assuming he hasn't gone off to piano-building school.


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## Tikoo Tuba

Self-indulgent idiots ! Isn't youngcapone merely exploring the Dorian mode ? Why does it appear to be
a C scale yet his composition beginning on D does not easily resolve to C ? Not that it couldn't .


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## pianozach

Key CAN be a subjective thing.


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## millionrainbows

pianozach said:


> Key CAN be a subjective thing.


That clears everything up!


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## millionrainbows

Tikoo Tuba said:


> Self-indulgent idiots ! Isn't youngcapone merely exploring the Dorian mode ? Why does it appear to be
> a C scale yet his composition beginning on D does not easily resolve to C ? Not that it couldn't .


Tikoo, Tikoo, your veneer is starting to crack. I want you to go to a piano factory and work for 5 years, then come back and talk to me .


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## Tikoo Tuba

I would likely enjoy making Booze 'n Dorfers , far far away from the suffering of
academic rigor and mortise . The modern cultural man needs compassion . I
addressed the OP's question and feel free to leave .


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## pianozach

pianozach said:


> Key CAN be a subjective thing.





millionrainbows said:


> That clears everything up!


No, seriously.

As a keyboardist (pianist, really) I do more accompaniment than soloing.

Often a key change is required to suit the needs of the singer(s). On most electronic keyboards there is a transpose feature. A couple button pushes and . . .

So . . . suddenly I'm playing in C, but it's coming out in Cb. And I don't hear any change in the character of what I'm playing.

[BUT if, instead, I sight transpose the piece TO Cb, playing it in Cb, it _may_ change character to MY ears.]

If I use "the button" to transpose, I barely notice any difference if it's only a half step, or two half steps.

But it seems to be unsettling if the keyboard is transposing a third or more . . . I may actually make some major mistakes because of the disconnect between what I'm playing and what I'm hearing.


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## EdwardBast

youngcapone said:


> I made a simple melody in FL studio that was in C Major. The melody consisted of two phrases both of which started on D. The only difference between the two is the second phrase ended on C (the tonic of C major). The only problem is, it didn't feel resolved ending on the tonic like I thought it would. *When I changed the last note of the tonic to a D it sounded resolved even though D is not the tonic of C Major.* After looking further into it, I realized that all the notes I used were also in D Dorian as well as C Major. So, my question is what defines a melody as being in a certain key to the listener? What makes the listener want to hear notes in a certain scale within a melody or resolve on the tonic of a certain scale?


Then the melody isn't in C major. All of the notes you said you used are also in the keys of D minor, F major, and A minor. If it sounds resolved on D, then D is the tonic.

To get meaningful answers to your general questions and to understand these answers, you will need to study music theory in more depth.


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## millionrainbows

EdwardBast said:


> Then the melody isn't in C major. All of the notes you said you used are also in the keys of D minor, F major, and A minor. If it sounds resolved on D, then D is the tonic.
> 
> To get meaningful answers to your general questions and to understand these answers, you will need to study music theory in more depth.


Bravo! I approve!


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## millionrainbows

pianozach said:


> If I use "the button" to transpose, I barely notice any difference if it's only a half step, or two half steps. But it seems to be unsettling if the keyboard is transposing a third or more . . . I may actually make some major mistakes because of the disconnect between what I'm playing and what I'm hearing.


Then you must have "imperfect pitch," the ability to instantly recognize and name any pitch within a major third range!


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