# Beethoven piano sonatas - which score edition should I buy?



## whateverg

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy the complete score of Beethoven's piano sonatas and I'm not particularly sure what to buy seeing as there are so many publishers! 

One thing I would prefer is that the Pathetique the score is written out so that in the second movement there are two lines on the top stave (I believe both a C and an A flat) and only one line on the bottom stave (I believe just an A flat on its own). From what I've seen approximately half of the editions have it like this and half another way. If you what you think is the best edition for the piano sonatas doesn't have this the please say. 

In terms of my ability I have completed my grade 8 and I have done a diploma (UK). I have only played the Pathetique as of yet (especially the second and third movements) but I would like to play more of the sonatas.

I have heard the Henle Urtext editions floated about as good - would this be suitable for me - are they really the best?

So if somebody could give me some advice I would be very appreciative.

Thanks

Mike


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## Klavierspieler

whateverg said:


> One thing I would prefer is that the Pathetique the score is written out so that in the second movement there are two lines on the top stave (I believe both a C and an A flat) and only one line on the bottom stave (I believe just an A flat on its own). From what I've seen approximately half of the editions have it like this and half another way. If you what you think is the best edition for the piano sonatas doesn't have this the please say.


Henle does not have it this way. However....



> ... are they really the best?


Yes.


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## maestro57

I second Klavierspieler.

G. Henle Verlag.


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## whateverg

maestro57 said:


> I second Klavierspieler.
> 
> G. Henle Verlag.


Thank you for your reply. In what way are they the best? Also am I right in saying that there is only one version of the G. Henle Verlag scores?


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## whateverg

maestro57 said:


> I second Klavierspieler.
> 
> G. Henle Verlag.


Thank you both for your replies. It is much appreciated. I was wondering why you think that this is the best version? Am I right in saying that there is no fingering? Is this ever an issue? Am I right in saying that there is only one G. Henle Verlag version or is there more than one?

Would you also be able to say which is the best one in the format that I have described above?

Thank you again


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## whateverg

Why particulary Verlag? Am I right in saying there is no fingering? Is this an issue? Also which do you think is the best with the feature that I described in my original post? 

Thank you for replying so far!


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## Jord

I have the 'Complete Piano Sonatas Volume I' which is brilliant, unfortunately i can't play any of it yet :lol:


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## Klavierspieler

whateverg said:


> Why particulary Verlag? Am I right in saying there is no fingering? Is this an issue? Also which do you think is the best with the feature that I described in my original post?
> 
> Thank you for replying so far!


Oh! Hi again! Sorry, I actually don't check out this section of the forum very often, despite being a pianist myself. It's the best because of a combination of scholarship+ease of reading. They are _the_ easiest to read. There is some fingering, and it's usually okay, but you don't buy Henle for the fingerings.

As to which edition is best that has it the way you describe, I'm not sure. I know Kalmus Classic Editions has it that way, but they are _not_ fun to try to read.


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## Ravndal

Henle is not only easy to read, but you can also trust them. Some editions is can be filled with wrong markings and notes.


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## Klavierspieler

Ravndal said:


> Henle is not only easy to read, but you can also trust them. Some editions is can be filled with wrong markings and notes.


Yes; Henle is the Urtext among Urtexts.


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## maestro57

whateverg said:


> Why particulary Verlag? Am I right in saying there is no fingering? Is this an issue? Also which do you think is the best with the feature that I described in my original post?
> 
> Thank you for replying so far!


I guess you have your answers above.

They cite the original manuscripts and original editions, where possible = urtext. As Klavierspieler said, it's "the urtext of urtexts". They are known to contain little, if any, errors in their versions and they clearly explain discrepancies.

For me, I tend to find the fingering in Henle editions to be quite fitting/efficient/comfortable - some books more than others (because there is a group of "fingering people" that edit for that kind of thing so it's not universal across the brand).

They have a high quality of print, are easy to read (the paper brightness is just right), and the binding is perfect (Smythe-sewn binding [where the pages are sewn/stitched and a cover is then glued on]).

And that blue cover - that famous blue cover - just looks so professional and sexy.

Whatever is available in Henle, I will buy. Just wish they would get their act together and somehow work out some rights to print Rachmaninoff works.

And, no, I don't work for the German publisher


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## Klavierspieler

maestro57 said:


> For me, I tend to find the fingering in Henle editions to be quite fitting/efficient/comfortable - some books more than others (because there is a group of "fingering people" that edit for that kind of thing so it's not universal across the brand).


The fingerings are definitely always functional. Another nice thing is that they will include fingerings by the composer whenever available.



> They have a high quality of print, are easy to read (the paper brightness is just right), and the binding is perfect (Smythe-sewn binding [where the pages are sewn/stitched and a cover is then glued on]).


Oh, yes; I forgot to mention, these things last forever. Other publishers' books have a tendency to lose pages and just generally fall apart. You have to try hard to wreck a Henle.


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## hreichgott

whateverg said:


> One thing I would prefer is that the Pathetique the score is written out so that in the second movement there are two lines on the top stave (I believe both a C and an A flat) and only one line on the bottom stave (I believe just an A flat on its own). From what I've seen approximately half of the editions have it like this and half another way. If you what you think is the best edition for the piano sonatas doesn't have this the please say.


Just out of curiosity, why does it matter how the notes are distributed between the hands on the page? You're free to distribute them any way you like when you play, and since you evidently know the piece already, you don't have to go through the stage of trying to figure it out... 
(I play the Pathetique regularly, from Henle, and I honestly can't remember how it's distributed!)


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## PetrB

Fingerings are always a suggestion only, everyone's hands slightly different. Depending upon the "fingerings editor(s)" some markings will fit your hand like a glove, make ultimate intellectual and mechanical sense to you, others will not.

The French do not put fingerings in any of the piano music, that culture believing one must find one's own. Along with that, I'm sure, is some direction and discussion through the years with one's private instructor  

I don't know how long I'd been playing, decades at least, before the ability to do my own just 'sort of happened,' yet to present, I am happy for the suggestions, take most, reject a few and if then, do my own.

The other advantage, is if you slip in performance, a very set fingering can then throw you off for an entire quarter note or an entire measure, where if you were more flexible you may be without error and just a hair different in the articulation.


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## aleazk

I improved my ability for fingerings when I started to play three/four voices Bach fugues!. Particularly those from the Art of Fugue.
The Chopins and Beethovens have been more easy.


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## PetrB

aleazk said:


> I improved my ability for fingerings when I started to play three/four voices Bach fugues!. Particularly those from the Art of Fugue.
> The Chopins and Beethovens have been more easy.


This has much to do with independence of each finger, and of course bringing out several independent voices using one hand, as well as the handing over of a voice from one hand to the other. So very not pianistic as compared to many of the configurations of more homophonic music. But that very quality of not pianistic gives you a fresh take on what may be needed, and where, to bring out a particular articulation which still might not be on first impulse "handy." That paves the way to more ability (and confidence) in making your own fingerings.


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## SIoannou

I am also a fan of henle urtext. Almost all fingerings recommended are good and I like the fact that it is the original score, without anything changed by the publisher. However it is good to compare it with other publischers scores and make your own decisions.


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## Volve

So, about the sonatas, do any of you have experience with these editions?













They are the only ones I can find easily avaliable here where I live, as importing from Amazon or any other sites is inadvisable due to the obscene taxes in Brasil. They are relatively cheap (about 25 dollars each). 
Are they worth getting?


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## DavidA

Whichever edition I have doesn't seem to make any difference to my playing, sadly!


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## Turangalîla

Go for G. Henle Verlag! I have also heard that Bärenreiter has fine urtexts of the Classical-era repertoire, but I have all the Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven sonatas in Henle and they are fantastic.


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## hreichgott

Volve, the editions you posted look like Dover editions. Dover tends to be cheaply available reprints of old plates that are in the public domain. So rather than buy the Dover you might as well just download and print the sonatas you want one at a time for free from imslp.org -- you'll probably find exactly the same plates there. (Unless $25 is worth the cost of not bothering to download and print.)

If you're going to buy a book, then spend the extra few dollars and get a more recent edition. I recommend the Henle urtext mentioned earlier.


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## Volve

Yes, those are Dover editions indeed  Still, paying $25 seems better than printing 400 pages 
I wish it were possible to get the Henle edition, however I simply can't find it on national websites, and my city has 0 shops that sell music sheets. I'll be going to São Paulo next week, and hopefuly i can find it there, but buying from overseas at the moment is a very bad idea, as the import taxes are worth about 3 times the price of the product. 
I'm going to wait this one out, maybe I can find the Henle somewhere. Thanks for the replies!


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## Turangalîla

I'm pretty sure that the Henle website has a massive catalogue and you can order from there...


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## Volve

So, yesterday I came back from a 5 day trip to São Paulo, where I find this street with a small shop for music books. And there it was, a whole shelf of Henle books, including the two Beethoven sonata books! They look great in my collection now


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## fsalaberri

im replying like 1000 years later but still may be helpful for you or others. Henle is the best critical edition but if you need fingering suggestiones Schnabel's would be the best.


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