# Download? or Hard copy? or Both? and ipad



## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

"_Top o the morning to you all'_ I was pondering - do you guys purchase hard copy CD's from Amazon or Play.com etc? Or do you download an album via iTunes? Spotify?

Slightly of course, but I'm considering buying an ipad. My mac pc is in my kitchen, the ipad would be more transportable! Any thoughts on ipad? Whats the sound like for listening to music?

I'd, as always, am very grateful for your thoughts

Seán


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Preferably I buy records, but once in a while I'll buy CDs (or even mp3s if it's a reallyreally great deal) from Amazon. I don't believe in buying from iTunes because they're very pricey for the quality of their music, and I'm just not into paying for strictly digital items, but that's an entirely different story. I prefer to have the option for lossless, so I prefer physical copies of everything I own.


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## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> Preferably I buy records, but once in a while I'll buy CDs (or even mp3s if it's a reallyreally great deal) from Amazon. I don't believe in buying from iTunes because they're very pricey for the quality of their music, and I'm just not into paying for strictly digital items, but that's an entirely different story. I prefer to have the option for lossless, so I prefer physical copies of everything I own.


K, thanks for that.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I have an iPad and I love it. The best part is if you have an Airport Express hooked up to your stereo and you leave the stereo on, you can stream the audio from anything straight to your speakers and adjust the volume all wirelessly. With a few Airpor Expresses, you can control music playback all over your house. I have a Logitech Harmony that converts all my remotes into a single interface controlled from the iPad, so I control my TV, amp and bluray player too. I couldn't live without an ipad now. It's become a part of my everyday life.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

1) Purchasing: I do a combination of digital downloads as well as hard copy CDs. When I have a "have to have it now" impulse I download....from iTunes, Amazon, or Emusic if the latter has a promotion on. Regarding amazon though, I am no longer going to be downloading from them, because as far as I can tell, it looks like they are going to "Cloud Player" only, rather than allowing you to store the music on your own hard drive. That's bull. For the CDs, I usually do third party vendors from Amazon, I've used Presto Classical once during a sale and they were great, so I do intend to use them again in the future.

2) I have an iPad and it's great. I'm no "audiophile" so I can't compare the sound quality to this or that. But I know I'm satisfied with the sound quality. I use my iPad quite a bit for music listening, either with headphones, or with a jack I can plug it in to my Altec Lansing iPod dock. For Christmas, I'm requesting a pair of Senheiser headphones from my husband for improved sound quality.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Sonata said:


> 1) Purchasing: I do a combination of digital downloads as well as hard copy CDs. When I have a "have to have it now" impulse I download....from iTunes, Amazon, or Emusic if the latter has a promotion on. Regarding amazon though, I am no longer going to be downloading from them, because as far as I can tell, it looks like they are going to "Cloud Player" only, rather than allowing you to store the music on your own hard drive. That's bull. For the CDs, I usually do third party vendors from Amazon, I've used Presto Classical once during a sale and they were great, so I do intend to use them again in the future.
> 
> 2) I have an iPad and it's great. I'm no "audiophile" so I can't compare the sound quality to this or that. But I know I'm satisfied with the sound quality. I use my iPad quite a bit for music listening, either with headphones, or with a jack I can plug it in to my Altec Lansing iPod dock. For Christmas, I'm requesting a pair of Senheiser headphones from my husband for improved sound quality.


Amazon has all of the music on the cloud drive, but they allow you to download it at any given moment, which happens to work a lot better than iTunes's frustrating system of only letting 5 computers have the tracks at a time...the prices are also cheaper.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

OK, that's good to know. Previously when I downloaded from them it gave the option of "save to cloud drive" or "save to my computer" Last time I went to download it only said "save to Cloud". I didn't realize you could download from the cloud to the computer hard drive. Thanks for the tip!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

If everything goes to download, I'll get a laptop and a couple of external hard drives, so I can go through my stereo-surround setup in my living room, with speakers, or go around to _other_ people's stereo setups and plug in some music.

I want AIFF files, not compressed MP3s. The only way I can listen to MP3s are at 320 kbps, and the *only* reason for MP3s is _portable_ listening. But I *hate ear-buds;* I must use good *Sennheiser* headphones.

*No MP3s through speakers!*

For now, I love CDs. The only thing I've downloaded is stuff *not* on CD: The original 'dry' mix of ZZ Top's first album; the original mix of Frank Zappa's "Cruising with Reuben and the Jets" are about it so far.

I like my Denon DVD 2900 player; it uses Burr-Brown converter chips. What kind of sound card is in an i-Pad? Can it be upgraded? That would be my first query; how does the thing _*sound?*_


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Sonata said:


> OK, that's good to know. Previously when I downloaded from them it gave the option of "save to cloud drive" or "save to my computer" Last time I went to download it only said "save to Cloud". I didn't realize you could download from the cloud to the computer hard drive. Thanks for the tip!


There's an Amazon Cloud Player app for ipad and iphone that allows you to stream or download directly to your mobile device.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

I order CDs on Amazon so I have an archive copy, then rip to FLAC so I can have another archive copy. I store all my music on my desktop computer and use a service called Subsonic on that desktop to stream my music over the network to all my other computers. Subsonic transcodes to mp3 on-the-fly with bitrate depending partly on how fast it can stream. I usually end up listening to 800+kbps VBR mp3 that way.

Dunno about iPads. I have a Lenovo IdeaPad tablet that I absolutely love, though.

Off-topic: @millionrainbows: I just realized where your avatar came from because I just got that book in the mail today. Haven't read it yet, though.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> *No MP3s through speakers!*


i used to think that. But I did controlled listening tests with MP4, which is better sounding and has a smaller file size than MP3 and I determined that AAC 256 VBR is completely indistiguishable from the original CD. Even encoding it and reencoding it ten generations, it's still identical to CD.

I now have a Mac Mini server in my listening/screening room with a bank of drives. All my music is AAC 256 VBR and it sounds fantastic. Over a year and a half's worth of music (playing 24/7 without repeating any tracks)... a lifetime's worth of music, all searchable and instantly accessible. The music plays day and night and streams over wifi to every room in my house. I turn on the stereo and there's music already playing.

I am totally 100% sold on digital music. I'm an old timer, but I would never go back to analogue. When I had 8 tracks and reel to reel decks, I never dreamed I would ever see it this good.

The iPad has as good a DAC built in as good CD players and external DACs. No need to upgrade it. It's designed to sound good from the ground up. All Apple products are.


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

The IPad is great but if you purchase it I would encourage getting a hard copy of your music. If something should happen to your iPad, at least you'll still have those CDs.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

TrazomGangflow said:


> The IPad is great but if you purchase it I would encourage getting a hard copy of your music. If something should happen to your iPad, at least you'll still have those CDs.


I agree with this. I always think it is better to own the CD and rip my own music for my portable devices. Even if you use the Amazon cloud there is no guarantees that your music will always be available to you. It's unlikely that Amazon could go under but the possibility exists and then where are you? Besides CDs have superior sound to mp3s and no matter what people say you can hear the difference. I also enjoy listening to streams on Spotify but my CDs sound so much better without that compression. Having nice stereo equipment helps too. 

Kevin


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Kevin Pearson said:


> I agree with this. I always think it is better to own the CD and rip my own music for my portable devices. Even if you use the Amazon cloud there is no guarantees that your music will always be available to you. It's unlikely that Amazon could go under but the possibility exists and then where are you? Besides CDs have superior sound to mp3s and no matter what people say you can hear the difference. I also enjoy listening to streams on Spotify but my CDs sound so much better without that compression. Having nice stereo equipment helps too.
> 
> Kevin


If amazon ever goes under, hopefully you will have downloaded them to your harddrive. Amazon has no DRM, so it'd be odd to not take that opportunity to put it on your computer.

Even then, I agree with those who say "buy physical, then burn to digital." It's much more efficient, you can find even better deals than online sometimes (I once found a great copy of all 9 of Solti's Beethoven Symphonies for $10! On vinyl!)


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I too am a hard-copy guy. There is no security in this life, but the closest thing I know to security is to own the CD, and to store the music in two other places. If there is a fire in my home, that time capsule drive is the thing I'm saving!


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## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

science said:


> I too am a hard-copy guy. There is no security in this life, but the closest thing I know to security is to own the CD, and to store the music in two other places. If there is a fire in my home, that time capsule drive is the thing I'm saving!


Yeah the not having the hard copy CD was concern me at times, I normally buy all online to download onto puter. Might have to review this practice, or burn a copy onto disc I suppose.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

My data is all stored on Drobos which can recreate a drive if it dies, and a lot of important things are also backed up on separate drives. I'm working on putting together a whole set on drives for off site, but that is something like 60TB. Gonna take a while to organize.

With over 10,000 CDs ripped into my iTunes library, the time I spent ripping and tagging is worth more than the CDs.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2012)

All my music is on CD, every time I d/l it gets burned but the d/l is kept on an external HD in its original format.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I downloaded lots of music the past two years, but listen to it after I burn it on CD's. They go together with my 2000 or so CD's I bought over the past 25 years in my storage system.


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

I got into classical music long after Itunes and Amazon MP3 downloads were well stocked with options, so I've been exclusively downloading. I don't even burn to CD. I just back-up everything on an external hard drive in case of a computer crash.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

EricABQ is doing what all of us, even the intractable old timers, will be doing in the future. Planning for a digital library is something a lot of people don't do. But there are issues that can become very irritating if you don't forsee them. Back up schedules and strategies is the most obvious. But how the data sits on your drives can make a difference.

For instance, you can decide to rip everything to lossless. But if you have a large library like mine, a single 2 or 3 TB hard drive won't hold it all as lossless. Then you find yourself in the unpleasant situation of having to split your iTunes library across two drives. Now, if you're searching for something in particular and it isn't on the drive you have loaded up, you have to shut down iTunes and restart it using a different library and drive. That is a big pain in the backside. Building a collection that is scalable as your collection grows can be more difficult than one might think. Best to start out *at the very beginning* ripping to an efficient file size. AAC is truly transparent. It's a waste of space to rip to lossless if you already own the CD.

Another issue that affects classical music is setting up tags for random shuffling. If you just rip a CD track by track, a symphony will be broken up into four separate files. You can randomize by album, and the symphony will play correctly, along with whatever else is on the album. But if you shuffle by song, it will play part of one work, then part of another. Mulligan stew.

The solution for this is to use the "join tracks" function as you rip to group multiple CD chapters into a single file... All four movements of a symphony in one, not broken up. This is more important than you might think, because listening to digital files frees you from the constraints of the "album". In an album of complete Beethoven piano sonatas, it's unlikely that you really want to listen to every one of them in order in one sitting the way the album organizes it. You want them mixed in with other things, so you can appreciate each one individually.

One of iTunes' most powerful features (which few people use!) is "smart playlisting". You can set up an automatically generated selection of tracks based on any criteria... For instance you can tell iTunes to play Russian symphonies, composed between 1860 and 1880, that are conducted by Gergiev, that you haven't listened to in the last six months and it will do that. Fabulously powerful feature. But if you haven't joined tracks by work, it will scramble it all like eggs.

Another problem is tagging. There actually *is* a standard in Gracenote for tagging classical music. 90% of people use it. But occasionally, the idiot with his *own* tagging schema will upload his messed up tags to Gracenote and screw up everyone else's tags. Then he'll whine about how nothing on Gracenote is tagged properly. It isn't proper because you aren't following the standard! I honestly want to grab these people and shake them.

The database of information built into iTunes is the most powerful tool ever for organizing and cataloguing a music library, but not if you don't use it properly.

Of course most people just rip and slap files onto their computer without any thought. These are the people you see crying about how horrible iTunes is. They'll spend countless hours alphabetizing CDs on shelves, shifting everything as they buy more, or building databases with each CD typed in laboriously... But they won't take one minute to preen tags and join tracks as they rip.


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## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

bigshot said:


> EricABQ is doing what all of us, even the intractable old timers, will be doing in the future. Planning for a digital library is something a lot of people don't do. But there are issues that can become very irritating if you don't forsee them. Back up schedules and strategies is the most obvious. But how the data sits on your drives can make a difference.
> 
> For instance, you can decide to rip everything to lossless. But if you have a large library like mine, a single 2 or 3 TB hard drive won't hold it all as lossless. Then you find yourself in the unpleasant situation of having to split your iTunes library across two drives. Now, if you're searching for something in particular and it isn't on the drive you have loaded up, you have to shut down iTunes and restart it using a different library and drive. That is a big pain in the backside. Building a collection that is scalable as your collection grows can be more difficult than one might think. Best to start out *at the very beginning* ripping to an efficient file size. AAC is truly transparent. It's a waste of space to rip to lossless if you already own the CD.
> 
> ...


I'm grateful for your detailed response - it does scare me the thought of my collection suddenly deciding to part company with me (it has happened before), once bitten twice shy! Again, :tiphat: much appreciated!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

If you get an iPad, you might want to consider getting a Zaggfolio for it. It's a case and keyboard set. At 100$ it's not cheap, but mine has been great for me.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

bigshot said:


> Then you find yourself in the unpleasant situation of having to split your iTunes library across two drives. Now, if you're searching for something in particular and it isn't on the drive you have loaded up, you have to shut down iTunes and restart it using a different library and drive.


If this is true, then iTunes is truly the worst software ever designed in the history of life.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I purchase hard copy CDs (and DVDs) from Amazon Marketplace, MDT, Crotchet, Presto Classics. I have no interest in downloading albums (movies, concerts), burning, file transfers, e-devices, etc., etc.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

ITunes is database driven. You can only have one database loaded at a time. It is possible to set it so the links to the files are relative rather than absolute, and that would allow you to spread files across two drives, but then you'd need to make sure both drives were online when you opened iTunes or half your library would come up as broken links.

It would be nice to switch libraries on the fly, but I get the impression that very few people use multiple libraries. I imagine most people use compressed audio and a single library and would never have reason to split into more than one drive. However, if you have a huge library of music, like I do, you need to make allowances so it works smoothly. I'm able to fit a year and a half's worth of music onto a 2TB drive with plenty of room to spare, and at the bitrate I'm using, it sounds identical to the CD. No reason to worry about it that way.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

bigshot said:


> ITunes is database driven. You can only have one database loaded at a time. It is possible to set it so the links to the files are relative rather than absolute, and that would allow you to spread files across two drives, but then you'd need to make sure both drives were online when you opened iTunes or half your library would come up as broken links.
> 
> It would be nice to switch libraries on the fly, but I get the impression that very few people use multiple libraries. I imagine most people use compressed audio and a single library and would never have reason to split into more than one drive. However, if you have a huge library of music, like I do, you need to make allowances so it works smoothly. I'm able to fit a year and a half's worth of music onto a 2TB drive with plenty of room to spare, and at the bitrate I'm using, it sounds identical to the CD. No reason to worry about it that way.


I now finally understand why your library is all AAC :lol:


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Considering how easy it is to make mp3 out of your CDs, I'd always go for CDs, instead of buying files from Amazon, iTunes, etc. Unless you need to have them ASAP, as someone already said.



Kopachris said:


> I order CDs on Amazon so I have an archive copy, then rip to FLAC so I can have another archive copy. I store all my music on my desktop computer and use a service called Subsonic on that desktop to stream my music over the network to all my other computers. Subsonic transcodes to mp3 on-the-fly with bitrate depending partly on how fast it can stream. I usually end up listening to 800+kbps VBR mp3 that way.
> 
> Dunno about iPads. I have a Lenovo IdeaPad tablet that I absolutely love, though.
> 
> Off-topic: @millionrainbows: I just realized where your avatar came from because I just got that book in the mail today. Haven't read it yet, though.


Is that 800 number a typo or...?


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

bigshot said:


> Wall of lovely text.





bigshot said:


> ITunes is database driven. You can only have one database loaded at a time. It is possible to set it so the links to the files are relative rather than absolute, and that would allow you to spread files across two drives, but then you'd need to make sure both drives were online when you opened iTunes or half your library would come up as broken links.
> 
> It would be nice to switch libraries on the fly, but I get the impression that very few people use multiple libraries. I imagine most people use compressed audio and a single library and would never have reason to split into more than one drive. However, if you have a huge library of music, like I do, you need to make allowances so it works smoothly. I'm able to fit a year and a half's worth of music onto a 2TB drive with plenty of room to spare, and at the bitrate I'm using, it sounds identical to the CD. No reason to worry about it that way.


What about using multiple drives with RAID 0 and just one database? Alternatively, you could stream over your local network, like I do. Subsonic isn't very powerful when it comes to playlists or browsing by tags, but it's dead simple, not database-driven, and you can set up however many media folders (on however many drives) as you want. It's also open-source, so if you have some programming knowledge (IIRC, it's mostly Java, but it's not limited to that since it's web-based), you can add whatever features you want, though I'm sure there are also other streaming services out there with different features.



graaf said:


> Is that 800 number a typo or...?


Nope. (At least, I don't think so. That's the number Subsonic tells me. ) Then again, local area network is plenty fast to stream that (slowest routers on the market are still 54Mbps). As I said, Subsonic transcodes/downsamples on-the-fly, then caches it for later. Some details about the transcoding (if anyone's interested): http://www.subsonic.org/pages/transcoding.jsp


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

For Classical Music I always buy the CD and then rip it to my digital library. For non-classical Im not as fussy and own a combination of CD's and downloads which again are all in my library.
I listen to everything through my iPod and dont own a stereo anymore - I encode everything at 320 kbps for Classical and cant tell the difference between that and lossless so im happy.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

bigshot said:


> The solution for this is to use the "join tracks" function as you rip to group multiple CD chapters into a single file... All four movements of a symphony in one, not broken up.


Oh, that is a radical idea to me. Have to think about that.

Edit: Do I have to re-upload everything? That is just impossible to contemplate. I'll wait for Apple to come out with a "hold together when shuffling" option. That can't be too long in the future.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Kopachris said:


> Nope. (At least, I don't think so. That's the number Subsonic tells me. ) Then again, local area network is plenty fast to stream that (slowest routers on the market are still 54Mbps). As I said, Subsonic transcodes/downsamples on-the-fly, then caches it for later. Some details about the transcoding (if anyone's interested): http://www.subsonic.org/pages/transcoding.jsp


Thanks for the reply.
I wasn't asking because of the network speed, but because mp3 can go as high as 320kbps (some non-standard ones went up to 384, but that is, as said, out of standard). Useful link, it gives some detail, so it says that audio uses lame encoder for mp3 (good choice), at v0 settings, which is usually around 245kbps (320 is maximum, but v0 is more than enough). Maybe you have 3 or 4 additional computers to stream to, so it adds up to over 800?


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

science said:


> Do I have to re-upload everything? That is just impossible to contemplate. I'll wait for Apple to come out with a "hold together when shuffling" option. That can't be too long in the future.


Unfortunately, I've done a lot of research on this, and I haven't found any app or plugin that will join MP3s or AACs after they've been ripped as separate files. I joined from the very beginning when I started ripping my CD collection to digital files.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Kopachris said:


> What about using multiple drives with RAID 0 and just one database?


That would work. That's what I do for video.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Kopachris said:


> Nope. (At least, I don't think so. That's the number Subsonic tells me. ) Then again, local area network is plenty fast to stream that (slowest routers on the market are still 54Mbps). As I said, Subsonic transcodes/downsamples on-the-fly, then caches it for later. Some details about the transcoding (if anyone's interested): http://www.subsonic.org/pages/transcoding.jsp


I use Subsonic as well on my NAS... but i stream over the internet rather than on my LAN, since most home networks can manage straight up uncompressed LPCM or even 1080p video on wireless G. Transcoding is meant for internet streaming, like a private Youtube or something.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

bigshot said:


> Unfortunately, I've done a lot of research on this, and I haven't found any app or plugin that will join MP3s or AACs after they've been ripped as separate files. I joined from the very beginning when I started ripping my CD collection to digital files.


What you should do is rip them as lossless (Flac, APE, ORG etc.) and then join. Then from the joined lossless file you create an mp3. I hope that helps.

Kevin


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The problem isn't joining them as you rip, it's after. You could convert MP3 to lossless, join then encode again to MP3, but that would be a double encode. Might not make much difference with AAC. Don't know about MP3.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

bigshot said:


> The problem isn't joining them as you rip, it's after. You could convert MP3 to lossless, join then encode again to MP3, but that would be a double encode. Might not make much difference with AAC. Don't know about MP3.


I guess I'm confused then because what I am suggesting is to rip the files as individual Flac files first. Then join the files that you need as one mp3 but join them as one joined Flac file. Once you have the joined Flac file then concert to an mp3. That would help preserve the integrity of the file by encoding to a lossless and then to an mp3.

Kevin


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

You can join as you rip to any file format. The problem is if you have an existing iTunes library full of separate AAC or MP3 files. You can't join them. You have to completely rerip them to join them.

Science was asking if he could join tracks in his existing library, so he didn'thave to start all over again.


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## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

bigshot said:


> You can join as you rip to any file format. The problem is if you have an existing iTunes library full of separate AAC or MP3 files. You can't join them. You have to completely rerip them to join them.


Oh sweet jesus..serious?


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

That's why I suggested to plan ahead and work out everything BEFORE you start!


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## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

bigshot said:


> That's why I suggested to plan ahead and work out everything BEFORE you start!


Chum, I've loads on hard-drive


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

What I did was form a second library. Most of my old files that were split were MP3s that I was given or made before I set up my music server. So I made a library full of those to play the old fashioned klunky way. Then I created a new library that is only AAC 256 VBR Joined. Everything goes into that library now. It's hit critical mass, so I listen to the new library all the time now.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

graaf said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I wasn't asking because of the network speed, but because mp3 can go as high as 320kbps (some non-standard ones went up to 384, but that is, as said, out of standard). Useful link, it gives some detail, so it says that audio uses lame encoder for mp3 (good choice), at v0 settings, which is usually around 245kbps (320 is maximum, but v0 is more than enough). Maybe you have 3 or 4 additional computers to stream to, so it adds up to over 800?


I noticed that myself when I looked at the link, and that's why I added the disclaimer. Actually, I'm not sure if it's actually transcoding or not. The player says "mp3," but the file size is exactly the same as the FLAC file, and if I turn transcoding off, it says it's streaming FLAC with the exact same bitrate as the mp3 option (it will download, but it won't play doing that). Need to do more research.



Philip said:


> I use Subsonic as well on my NAS... but i stream over the internet rather than on my LAN, since most home networks can manage straight up uncompressed LPCM or even 1080p video on wireless G. Transcoding is meant for internet streaming, like a private Youtube or something.


Wish I could do that. Turns out my ISP (which, by the way, is literally the only one in town) uses the same IP address for the whole town. No chance of getting my own static IP address for now, or of port forwarding through their equipment. Do you use something different from Subsonic for streaming over your LAN (if you stream over your LAN at all)?


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I use Airport Expresses connected to every stereo and boom box in my house.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

bigshot said:


> Unfortunately, I've done a lot of research on this, and I haven't found any app or plugin that will join MP3s or AACs after they've been ripped as separate files. I joined from the very beginning when I started ripping my CD collection to digital files.


That's ok. I've long been rearranging my files so that a single recording of a single work, such as Kleiber's recording of Beethoven's fifth, is listed as a single album. Kleiber's recording of Beethoven's seventh is listed as a different album. Gardiner's recording of Beethoven's fifth is yet a different album. And so on.

Now I can scramble by album and it works out. I haven't tried the "Smart Playlist" feature yet, but we'll see how it goes.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I order CDS & rarely download because i would not like to have mp3 on my computers.The computers may crash or be infected by a virus that may destroy files.Also the mp3 players maybe stolen which means the person my have to buy the files again.


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## campy (Aug 16, 2012)

belfastboy said:


> Oh sweet jesus..serious?


You *can* join AACs and MP3s easily. I use Audacity. I load the files, copy & paste them together, and export to a new mp3.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

campy said:


> You *can* join AACs and MP3s easily. I use Audacity. I load the files, copy & paste them together, and export to a new mp3.


That is basically reencoding the files, which is what we were trying to avoid because it's a waste of time.

I managed to concatenate two audio files without reencoding them using ffmpeg:

```
ffmpeg -i "concat:file1.flac|file2.flac" -acodec copy out.flac
```
However, this only works properly if both files are the exact same codec (and I only tried it with FLAC, so no guarantees about others), and you will lose any metadata, including both tags and timing info. I combined both sides of Tull's "Thick as a Brick," and VLC counted the whole thing as 22:36 in length (the length of side 2), but it began at the beginning of side 1 and ended at the end of side 2, so they were concatenated properly. I also did this on my Linux computer (which is the only one I have ffmpeg installed on), so I don't know if the syntax would be the same on Windows, but it should be the same on Mac OS X.

Edit: if you let the player reach the point where the two files are joined, it stops playing. Still working on a solution.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

I prefer a hard copy and I get my other half to make me a digital copy for my computer/iPad. That way I know I'm always getting the best possible audio and video quality. Most digital copies downloaded from the likes of *Amazon*/*iTunes *are not CD quality and yet are priced like a CD? No thanks!


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Yeah, CDs for me, I keep Amazon in business buying mostly 'Used, Like New' and also use Play.com - I download occasionally, from two sites you may use, Squirrel's Nest = http://squirrelnyc.wordpress.com - totally free, this one guy cleans up and uploads famous performances and little known works from old LPs (78s, 33s) - and from Classical Archives = http://www.classicalarchives.com/index.html. The latter is not free, but it's cheap and you can find really good stuff!

But, in the end I like having the material object, the liner notes and the superior sound. And re the iPad, I have a 2nd generation iPad. Don't use it like I thought I would, but it's convenient for surfing and listening. Cheers!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I use this freeware for joining mp3's without any hassle:
http://all-free-mp3-joiner.soft32.com/


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)

I'd rather have anything I can back up to another disk. That means for digital I'll take what's DRM-free.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> Yeah, CDs for me, I keep Amazon in business buying mostly 'Used, Like New' and also use Play.com - I download occasionally, from two sites you may use, Squirrel's Nest = http://squirrelnyc.wordpress.com - totally free, this one guy cleans up and uploads famous performances and little known works from old LPs (78s, 33s) - and from Classical Archives = http://www.classicalarchives.com/index.html. The latter is not free, but it's cheap and you can find really good stuff!


I am a strictly CD person. Saying that, I used to use Classical Archives years ago when they had rare live performances from composers I'd never heard of. Now, it's just commercial recordings BUT you have to be careful: for example there are two recordings of Khachaturians 3rd Symphony listed; one from the BBCPO under Glushchenko, the other from the SNO under Jaarvi. Thing is they're exactly the same recording since the supposed Jaarvi one is actually from a disc called 'An Introduction to Aram Khachaturian' which has the Glushchenko recording coupled with Jaarvi selections from the Khachaturian ballets. Jaarvi never recorded the 3rd symphony (sadly).


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I only have CDs. I also don't convert anything to MP3 or AAC anymore. I used to, for mobile listening, but I stopped for several reasons. The sheer amount of time it took! There's a solution and a Right Way for every issue, including joining files and correct tagging, but for me, it didn't pay off.

As a physical being, I couldn't do without CDs. We attach ourselves to physical objects in a more meaningful way than to any virtual download, be it music or a movie or an e-book. Somewhere Nietzsche wrote that you cannot borrow books, you have to own them. This only really makes sense if he meant something like: a book, that is, it's content, can only really become part of you if the physical entity of the book is yours the same way your own body is yours.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Kopachris said:


> Wish I could do that. Turns out my ISP (which, by the way, is literally the only one in town) uses the same IP address for the whole town. No chance of getting my own static IP address for now, or of port forwarding through their equipment. Do you use something different from Subsonic for streaming over your LAN (if you stream over your LAN at all)?


I see, my IP is dynamic as well, you can use a service like freeDNS to assign a static domain to your dynamic IP. I'm not sure if that will work for you, though.

I don't use Subsonic over my LAN because i've enabled the CIFS/SMB services on my NAS, ie. my media player indexes these locations as if the files were sitting on my local hard drive.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

By the way, it is possible the repack MP3s into a single file without transcoding them. I haven't done it myself, but if you look around the hydrogenaudio forums i'm sure you'll eventually figure something out.

Who listens to classical music in shuffle anyway?


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