# Victory!



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Victory! Yeah, that's right, victory!

How about a little fanfare?


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> Victory! Yeah, that's right, victory!
> 
> How about a little fanfare?


Uh, sorry, but what victory are we talking about here?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm guessing the reference is to the opening motif of Beethoven's 5th, which sometimes accompanied the "V for victory" hand gesture of the Allies in WW ll. Beethoven died on March 26.


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## Steerpike (Dec 29, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I'm guessing the reference is to the opening motif of Beethoven's 5th, which sometimes accompanied the "V for victory" hand gesture of the Allies in WW ll. Beethoven died on March 26.


I didn't know that! It's odd that a primarily descending sequence of notes should be associated with something as positive as victory.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Steerpike said:


> I didn't know that! It's odd that a primarily descending sequence of notes should be associated with something as positive as victory.


It's just the first four notes. A very decisive statement of whatever you please.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

dot-dot-dot-dash is _V_ in Morse code.

In the Allied Military phonetic spelling alphabet, Victor stands for _V_, which is close enough to Victory!


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

The opening measures...


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Victoria who? Millions, are you getting married or something?

Congrats man. I'll compose a fanfare for you. Just getting me trumpet from under the bed.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Steerpike said:


> I didn't know that! It's odd that a primarily descending sequence of notes should be associated with something as positive as victory.


There are times Beethoven doesn't descend with the sequence of notes, even in this symphony

Also the 3Ms with their Mastery of the Morse Motif:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Just a note to remind our gentle readers that Morse code didn’t begin to be developed until a decade after Beethoven’s death, and only came into wider use some years after that. Further, the attempt to co-opt this theme of Beethoven, who was a German nationalist (culturally if not nationally) to promote victory in a war against Beethoven’s own nation (granted that it didn’t then exist) seems a bit of a reach. If you see Winston, perhaps you can pass this on. Thanks in advance.

Meanwhile, maybe somebody can tell us: What rather famous music, a favorite of Richard Nixon, uses the sound of telegraphic code?


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

KenOC said:


> Meanwhile, maybe somebody can tell us: What rather famous music, a favorite of Richard Nixon, uses the sound of telegraphic code?


Based on your post in the Current Listening thread, I'll go with _Victory at Sea_.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

RockyIII said:


> Based on your post in the Current Listening thread, I'll go with _Victory at Sea_.


Well, you're right, but you _did _cheat! So far, telegraphic code (presumably Morse) is used in _The High Seas_ and _D-Day_. I think there's one more place, but haven't got there yet.

This TV score was said to be Nixon's favorite music. Did you know that he wrote a piano concerto? Well, kind of.

Having spent some of my very young years watching the series on our B&W TV*, the imprint is permanent.

*Color TV was still some years out!

Here's D-Day.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Well, you're right, but you _did _cheat! So far, telegraphic code (presumably Morse) is used in _The High Seas_ and _D-Day_. I think there's one more place, but haven't got there yet.
> 
> This TV score was said to be Nixon's favorite music. Did you know that he wrote a piano concerto? Well, kind of.
> 
> ...


Aargh! My dad used to subject me to that insufferable racket. Thanks for reminding me Ken  Had he known Nixon liked it too he would have frisbeed that disc out the window.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

And now, especially for EdwardBast, more Victory!


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

KenOC said:


> … This TV score was said to be Nixon's favorite music. Did you know that he wrote a piano concerto? Well, kind of.


Richard Nixon wrote a piano concerto? Perhaps it was Cage-ian in style and appears as the "gap" of silence on the famous Nixon tapes? In any case, I'll stick with Rachmaninoff and Mozart.



millionrainbows said:


> Victory! Yeah, that's right, victory!
> 
> How about a little fanfare?


As for proclaiming victory on the day of Beethoven's death? I would rather weep, and listen to the man's music.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> Richard Nixon wrote a piano concerto? Perhaps it was Cage-ian in style and appears as the "gap" of silence on the famous Nixon tapes? In any case, I'll stick with Rachmaninoff and Mozart.
> 
> As for proclaiming victory on the day of Beethoven's death? I would rather weep, and listen to the man's music.


Richard Nixon performs his Piano Concerto on the Jack Paar Show:


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Not Morse code, but here's something the Nixon Administration may have used as the soundtrack to the Watergate break-in. When the taps are translated into code, they do not spell out Victory but rather, your ship is sinking.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Haydn70 said:


> Richard Nixon performs his Piano Concerto on the Jack Paar Show:


No one has yet mentioned it on any of the Mozart threads, but I think we can say with assurance that if Mozart had lived another two centuries he would have absorbed all the elements of Nixonian style and surpassed the work of Nixon himself, proving once again that he is the greatest composer of all time and really the only one we need.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Fanfare for the Common Man, New York Philharmonic, James Levine


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I've been interested in the _Victory at Sea_ music for another reason - its attribution is (IMO) somewhat unfair. Although it's credited to Richard Rodgers, "Rodgers contributed 12 'themes'-short piano compositions a minute or two in length." Granted, these are very good themes!

But "Robert Russell Bennett did the orchestrating, transforming Rodgers's themes for a variety of moods, and composing much more original material than Rodgers," about 13 hours worth in total. But he's only credited with "arranging and conducting" the material.

Well, I guess life's not always fair.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

KenOC said:


> I've been interested in the _Victory at Sea_ music for another reason - its attribution is (IMO) somewhat unfair. Although it's credited to Richard Rodgers, "Rodgers contributed 12 'themes'-short piano compositions a minute or two in length." *Granted, these are very good themes*!
> 
> But "Robert Russell Bennett did the orchestrating, transforming Rodgers's themes for a variety of moods, and composing much more original material than Rodgers," about 13 hours worth in total. But he's only credited with "arranging and conducting" the material.
> 
> Well, I guess life's not always fair.


Indeed they are. Rodgers was a superb melodist.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

I love the main theme:


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> No one has yet mentioned it on any of the Mozart threads, but I think we can say with assurance that if Mozart had lived another two centuries he would have absorbed all the elements of Nixonian style and surpassed the work of Nixon himself, proving once again that he is the greatest composer of all time and really the only one we need.


Nixon was a true piano Meister! And great composer too. Very shady he has chosen the wrong profession and the humanity lost such an artist. I will start a dedicated thread to him in our forum, alongside Beethoven, Liszt, Scriabin etc. He deserves it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

(Deleted due to faulty memory)


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

KenOC said:


> (Deleted due to faulty memory)


Well Ken, you captured the spirit of the opening...which is here:


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

KenOC said:


> I've been interested in the _Victory at Sea_ music for another reason - its attribution is (IMO) somewhat unfair. Although it's credited to Richard Rodgers, "Rodgers contributed 12 'themes'-short piano compositions a minute or two in length." Granted, these are very good themes!
> 
> But "Robert Russell Bennett did the orchestrating, transforming Rodgers's themes for a variety of moods, and composing much more original material than Rodgers," about 13 hours worth in total. But he's only credited with "arranging and conducting" the material.
> 
> Well, I guess life's not always fair.


As some may have already mentioned, "Victory at Sea" is an historic tv series that can still be viewed online even if it might seem somewhat dated with its raw battle footage. It's about America's War in the Pacific and some of the country's greatest sea battles with the tough Japanese navy and their deadly kamikaze pilots. The music, of course, is dramatic, suspenseful, and reminds me of ships at sea. I love the sensation of ocean spray, and here's a bit more of the opening Main Title Theme, and like Ken says, Robert Russell Bennett deserves more credit for he is outstanding orchestration of the Richard Roger themes than he's been given credit:


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

The arranger's lot can be an unhappy one. I know this first-hand. Not that I've been hired to arrange anything as spectacular as a film score, but you never know there's time yet!

Keep an eye out for my name at your local picture palace. I might get hired to make Hans Zimmer sound vaguely interesting. My first piece of advice to him will be: "Hans, I don't think this particular scene really needs 300 tom-toms playing in unison at fff."


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I was hoping for a good thread about Wellington's Victory. I'm still game for recommendations where the gunfire is downplayed. Dorati and Karajan did not work for me.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Even Napoleon had his Watergate. —Yogi Berra


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> No one has yet mentioned it on any of the Mozart threads, but I think we can say with assurance that if Mozart had lived another two centuries he would have absorbed all the elements of Nixonian style and surpassed the work of Nixon himself, proving once again that he is the greatest composer of all time and really the only one we need.


Not quite. If Mozart had lived longer, he would have simply eclipsed Nixon rather than absorbing his style and the world wouldn't have given _a single piece of bread_ for Nixon's compositions.

"Of course it's too bad Mozart died, but it's good for us that he died. Because if he had lived longer, the world would not have given a single piece of bread for my compositions."



Dimace said:


> Nixon was a true piano Meister! And great composer too. Very shady he has chosen the wrong profession and the humanity lost such an artist. I will start a dedicated thread to him in our forum, alongside Beethoven, Liszt, Scriabin etc. He deserves it.


Yes, indeed. Very shady he has chosen the _wrong profession_ and got all the blame for (dot-dot-dot-dash)ietnam,
Like how Mozart-detractors sometimes complain, "I wish Mozart was born in the Romantic era", 
Nixon was in the wrong profession at the wrong time. Poor guys


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> Not quite. If Mozart had lived longer, he would have simply eclipsed Nixon rather than absorbing his style and the world wouldn't have given _a single piece of bread_ for Nixon's compositions.


I see you have Mozart's spies deployed everywhere. He'd be so proud that someone in 2019 is even defending him against jokes.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Haydn70 said:


> Richard Nixon performs his Piano Concerto on the Jack Paar Show:


Well … I never thought the day would come when I actually have an appreciation for Cheap Trick. But after hearing Tricky Dick … anything is possible.






Ain't _that_ a shame.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

This (Under the Southern Cross) was one of the very first records I bought. Still a favourite.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Beneath the Southern Cross:


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