# Most Progressive Symphony Composers Between First/Early & Last



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Which composer(s) do you think made the most progress with their symphonies between their first (or earliest extant) and their last complete symphony? The symphony has enjoyed enormous progress from being a chamber symphony in some early examples or as an opera's overture, to something on its own as a major composition and concert work for Classical and Romantic composers, and to a lesser extent from mid-20th century and beyond.

So if you listened to Joseph Haydn's first/early chamber symphonies compared to his final public symphonic masterpieces for London, you can hear the difference in progress. While of course the early works are charming and wonderfully original, the final masterpieces are great examples of this progress.

Who do you think made the greatest leap between their first/earliest extant to their last?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I shall post some not familiar first/early extant symphonies:

*Michael Haydn*





*Franz Joseph Haydn*





*Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart*


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I picked Bruckner, who went from 00 to 9, from a simple symphony to my all-time favourite in the genre (unless we include Mahler's DLVDE as symphony, which I do but many do not).

As a side note, you consistently misspell the name of Ralph Vaughan Williams (not Vaugh, no hyphen).


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

I think Sibelius should have been included. He is one composer that I find fascinating to listen to his ‘first to last’.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> I picked Bruckner, who went from 00 to 9, from a simple symphony to my all-time favourite in the genre (unless we include Mahler's DLVDE as symphony, which I do but many do not).
> 
> As a side note, you consistently misspell the name of Ralph Vaughan Williams (not Vaugh, no hyphen).


Why of course. Here is Ralph Vaughan Williams' _Sea Symphony_, one of the greatest symphonies of the 20th century:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Bkeske said:


> I think Sibelius should have been included. He is one composer that I find fascinating to listen to his 'first to last'.


I had only fifteen options for the poll. I agree Sibelius should also be considered.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

The difference between Tippet's 1st and 4th symphony in terms of language is striking, going from late-tonality (even key signatures), to a highly individual language. The sign of an artist prepared to push his own boundaries and develop over time. One finds similar progress, or rather searching with David Matthews and his 8 symphonies.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Bkeske said:


> I think Sibelius should have been included. He is one composer that I find fascinating to listen to his 'first to last'.


Yes. There's a world of development between Sibelius 1 and 7.


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

I think Beethoven and Schubert.

Beethoven style changed from Haydn-like in his symphonies 1+2 to almost brucknerian in his 9th symphony.
Schubert style changed from Mozart-like in his symphonies 1-6 to romantic in his 8+9 and almost late romantic in his unfinished 10th.

In the case of Haydn I like his 1st and his 104th, but overall I don't see much progression.
Bruckners 00th is a bit like Schumann, but Bruckner basically stayed loyale to his style but increased the epicness immensly.
Mahler is a candidate. His 9th is in a great progressive style, but I think the gap isn't as great as in the case of Beethoven and Schubert.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I picked LVB, Bruckner, Mahler and Dvorak. The reasons are, respectively: (i) going from a classical symphony to one of the most defining works of music of all time, in an almost completely different style; (ii) as Art Rock said, from a study symphony to a towering masterpiece; (iii) in this case, everything's already there, but everything becomes more clear with Mahler as his symphonies progressed (although my favourite is No 2); (iv) I'm no fan of Dvorak, I enjoy a few of his works, but if we're speaking about progress he's definitely up there, I don't think any of his symphonies apart from the 9th are any good, but that one is rather amazing, so a lot of improvements from the 1st to the 9th


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## ThankYouKiwi (May 2, 2021)

I chose Shostakovich and RVW because of how much different ground they covered across their career. Their development isn't as linear or easily followable, sure, but I think out of those composers they are the ones who really did as many different things with the symphony as they could in their life. 

Another composer I would like to suggest is Nielsen. I love how each symphony is not only more experimental than the last, but each symphony just becomes more bizarre and over the top. This of course peaks at the 6th, which is certainly one of the most quirky and odd symphonies of the twentieth century.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Bruckner

My message is deemed too short, so I'll fill it out by announcing that Rangers thrashed Celtic 4-1 this afternoon.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Beethoven and Bruckner to me. Both started with modest symphonies and ended up with what in my opinion is some of the greatest music ever written.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> Bruckner
> 
> My message is deemed too short, so I'll fill it out by announcing that Rangers thrashed Celtic 4-1 this afternoon.


Not at all sir, I much prefer shorter posts than lengthy ones.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Aries said:


> Beethoven style changed from Haydn-like in his symphonies 1+2 to almost brucknerian in his 9th symphony.


What is it about Beethoven's 9th that sounds "Brucknerian" to you? 
A Controversial Comment About Beethoven and Bruckner


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Beethoven
Sibelius
Prokofiev 
Bruckner
Dvorak
Haydn
Mozart


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

An enjoyable mid-20th century symphony by Prokofiev, symphony no.7 in C-sharp minor, op. 131, completed in 1952 a year before he died. It is quite progressive since his first symphony the famous "Classical" symphony composed about thirty-five years earlier.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

@ #15
Bruckner started more than half of his symphonies with similar devices as Beethoven's 9th. He must also have loved the ostinato passage in the coda of LvB 9,i because there is a clear reminiscence to this in the 3rd and probably elsewhere. (Although one could maybe argue that Schubert 9th is closer to Bruckner than Beethoven's 9th is)


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Here is Sibelius' Symphony no.1. I haven't listened to it for a few years now. It's quite refreshing as a first symphony.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Saint-Saëns' Symphony No 3 in C minor, Op 78 is his greatest symphony. So he actually made tremendous progress already but then again, he was a prodigy.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> Here is Sibelius' Symphony no.1. I haven't listened to it for a few years now. It's quite refreshing as a first symphony.


Sibelius #1 is one of my favorite "Firsts"....Shostakovich and Walton are the others


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Tchaikovsky for sure. His progression (or maturity) from the mid-1860s through the early 1890s was simply huge (not just in terms of melodic invention, but also in terms of orchestration, form, technique). I will also mention:

Carl Nielsen
Eduard Tubin
Braga Santos
Alexander Scriabin (he was on his way)
Nikolai Myaskovsky is worth a thought
Sir Arnold Bax likewise
Erkki Melartin
Charles Ives
David Diamond
Boris Lyatoshynsky


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