# SS 28.06.14 - Mahler #8



## realdealblues

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Gustav Mahler (1860 - 1911)*

Symphony #8 in E-flat Major "Symphony Of A Thousand" 

1. Part 1: Veni creator spiritus
2. Part 2: Closing scene from Goethe's Faust

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues

I know this is a hard symphony to get through for some people, but hopefully we'll get some new listeners to give it a try or a few folks to give it another spin.

This weekend I'll listen to my one of my favorites that doesn't get much attention:

View attachment 45407


Michael Gielen/Frankfurter Opern-und Museumsorchester
Live 1981
Choirs: Figuralchor des Hessischen Rundfunks, Frankfurter Kantorei, Frankfurter Singakademie, Limburger Domsingknaben
Singers: Faye Robinson, Margaret Anne Marshall, Hildegard Heichele, Ortrun Wenkel, Hildegard Laurich, Mallory Walker, Richard Stilwell, Simon Estes


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## CyrilWashbrook

This will be the first time I've heard the Mahler 8. Except for the first three, I haven't found his symphonies particularly engaging, and therefore I haven't been very diligent in making the time to listen to all of them. But I'll have a go to see if this one captures the imagination. Chailly/RCO for me.


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## Cosmos

Hm, alright. There are two different recordings I have, Gergiev and the LSO










And Solti with the CSO










I may just flip a coin for this one :lol: though they're both really good. Also, I can accept other's lack of enthusiasm for this Saturday symphony


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## techniquest

Absolutely no lack of enthusiasm from me for this weekend's Saturday Symphony; in fact after a couple of weeks where the symphonies haven't interested me at all, this one has been on my looking-forward-to list for while now 
I shall try to fit in a couple of recordings, certainly the excellent Naxos CD with Antoni Wit conducting a whole host of Polish forces, and probably the hard to find (and rather admired) recording by Wyn Morris and the Symphonica of London, etc on IMP Classics.


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## ptr

The best performance of the eight ever! :tiphat:

Soloists: Joyce Barker, Agnes Giebel and Beryll Hatt, sopranos; Kerstin Meyer and Helen Watts, contraltos; Kenneth Neate, tenor; Alfred Orda, baritone; Arnold van Mill, bass.

BBC Chorus; BBC Choral Society; Goldsmith's Choral Union; Hampstead Choral Society;Emanuel School Boys' Choir; Orpington Junior Singers; Goldsmith's Choral Union

London Symphony Orchestra u Jasha Horenstein

Recorded; Royal Albert Hall, London 20 March 1959 (BBC Legends)

/ptr


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## brotagonist

I was excited by all of the previous weeks' symphonies, but I admit that this is my least favourite Mahler symphony. Bought to complete my collection, I chose this edition for the fine bonus, the unfinished Symphony 10:









Sinopoli/Philharmonia

Maybe it will grow on me some


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## Mahlerian

I think it's a great work, personally.

For me:








London Philharmonic Orchestra, London Philharmonic Choir, Julia Varady, Jane Eaglen, Susan Bullock, Trudeliese Schmidt, Jadwinga Rappe, Kenneth Riegel, Eike Wilm Sculte, Hans Sotin

Also available here:


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## Mahlerian

A few comments about the Eighth:

Mahler could compose pretty quickly once inspiration hit, but the Eighth was sketched more rapidly than usual, in the course of a single summer. Initial plans were for a four-movement work, with some instrumental and some vocal movements, but this plan changed. Some people, looking at this original plan, try to find a "symphony within a symphony" structure to Part II, as one finds in Beethoven's Ninth, and there are traces of his original conception in the character of some parts of Part II, but where such sectional divisions might lie is a matter of debate. La Grange calls it a large-scale sonata form movement, minus the recapitulation, with introduction, exposition, development, and coda.

The whole work, Parts I and II, is developed out of a very few motifs that generate every single melody in the piece, and they all show up in the first few minutes. Everything is interconnected, so the melodies of Part II are an extension and an outgrowth of those in Part I. At the same time, Part I is still organized around sonata form (more precisely, sonata-rondo form), and the work is developmental rather than sectional, so this is a true symphony in every sense of the word.

I think the problem with the Eighth is that it's so difficult to pull off. Where are you going to find _eight_ soloists to fill the parts, several of them very demanding? Do you have a conductor that understands Mahler's conception enough to shape the piece in a meaningful way? Do you have a choir that can handle the complex polyphony of the first part? As much as I love the work, I have to admit it faces steep challenges every time.


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## brotagonist

Mahlerian said:


> The whole work, Parts I and II, is developed out of a very few motifs that generate every single melody in the piece, and they all show up in the first few minutes. Everything is interconnected, so the melodies of Part II are an extension and an outgrowth of those in Part I. At the same time, Part I is still organized around sonata form (more precisely, sonata-rondo form), and the work is developmental rather than sectional, so this is a true symphony in every sense of the word.


Thanks for the analysis  I will keep this in mind as I listen and I am sure I will hear the work with new ears


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## Haydn man

I had the Giergiev/LSO set bought as a birthday gift so will go with that


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## Vaneyes

*Mahler*: Symphony 8, w. Staats. Berlin/Boulez et al (rec.2007).


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## csacks

It will be my first time to listen it carefully. But it will be on Sunday, on Saturday we will have football (Chile-Brasil and Colombia-Ecuador). My girlfriend is from Colombia, so I must watch both games.
I bought the Mahler´s complete edition, with the 8th performed by Sir George Solti, one of my favorite directors. I am not a big enthusiast of Mahler, but it is becoming closer and closer, so this will be a new step.


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## AClockworkOrange

Mahlerian said:


> I think it's a great work, personally.
> 
> For me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London Philharmonic Orchestra, London Philharmonic Choir, Julia Varady, Jane Eaglen, Susan Bullock, Trudeliese Schmidt, Jadwinga Rappe, Kenneth Riegel, Eike Wilm Sculte, Hans Sotin
> 
> Also available here:


I'm going to follow Mahlerian's lead and go with Klaus Tennstedt's superb reading of the piece, on DVD.

Time permitting though, I will also listen to one of the following either tonight or (more likely) tomorrow:







or


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## techniquest

Wit / Warsaw National Philharmonic, etc / Naxos (2005)

View attachment 45456


This superb all-round recording opens with good solid organ chords and immediately you are struck by the spacious, warm sound. As the introduction dies down, the various soloists make their entrances and I am happy with the balance here (I'm not good at solo voices and really can't stand over-mic'ed shrill sopranos that drown out a massive orchestra and chorus, or over-wobbly vibrato in any voice).
The Warsaw Phil brass give a very full sound in the section accompanied by a well-recorded bell - this often gets lost or is too 'dingy'. I am far more familiar with part 2 of this symphony than the 'Veni creator spiritus', so I'm going to concentrate the rest of this write-up on that section.
Disc 2 of this set has the whole of Part 2 of the symphony (the closing scene from Goethe's 'Faust') and runs to 56 minutes on this recording. The opening of this part is purely orchestral for for around 8 minutes; hushed woodwinds, pizzicato strings and brass chorales, building to pretty big climaxes though nothing like what will be happening later on. Then the choir enter with similarly quiet, clipped phrases. The mood changes when the baritone enters, we're in a major key with sweeping strings and reinterations of the opening of the symphony on brass. I'm convinced that I can hear the Resurrection theme from the 2nd symphony in here in places, or something very close to it.
The section with the female and boys choirs is really energetic and sharp, and it's nice to be able to actually hear the children's choir (Rattle's recording is especially good at this too). There is a particularly beautiful orchestral interlude with strings and harp (the 'Truly Scrumptious' theme  ) which is one of those goose-pimple moments in music when it's played right: this is one of those moments, though maybe I'd prefer a bit more harp. I also like to hear the snatched harp/piano chords before the entry of the choir's next sweeping theme, and here they are somewhat lost.
Considering the size of this symphony it is amazing how much solo playing there is in the exchanges between the sopranos and altos that follows and again it's great how clear the instruments and orchestra sound, the vocalists are good but not overpowering. Dancing quavers in the strings bring us eventually to the return of the boys choir, again nicely recorded, but the preceding mandolins are way too far away.
The Mater Gloriosa soloist is intentionally distant and this works well on this recording, and the very high note is achieved without being too shrill. This leads to 'Blicket Auf' which has a big, heavy chord not far in; unfortunately here it just misses the mark. The soloist is great though and doesn't sound as though the piece is too much for him. The theme is passed around all the choirs and we really get a sense of just how big this work is without it having to blast the walls down (like it does in part 1). In fact restraint is all important here - it is so easy for the high notes on full forces to be too loud, but in this recording, the volume develops gradually as the keys go ever upward. It all ends with a brass chorale and incredibly high trumpet (not too blasting thank goodness) before all this might dies on timps and harps to become the most delicate and entrancing of Mahler's music on harp, glockenspiel, piano, clarinet and piccolo. The full choir re-enters and absolute pianissimo and we are on the final track to the conclusion. Too often this is hurried, but not here. Wit holds on to the huge forces with restraint and careful control making the big blast-out prior to the entry of the organ really hit you. I would have liked the choir's final note to be held a little longer, but the last orchestral pages of the work are handled really nicely with the tam-tam / cymbal crashes at the end balanced so you can actually hear the tam-tam (there's a novelty). All in all an excellent recording and well worth the budget price.


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## techniquest

You know, listening to the second disc of this set (which starts from 'Uns bliebt ein Erdenrest' of Part 2), I am immediately struck by how much closer this analogue recording from 1970 sounds. It's as if you are plunged into the middle of the action rather than listening to it from the upper circle.
The Wyn Morris recording with the Symphonica of London is my reference recording of Mahler's 8th so I'm always going to be biased towards it. I first came to know of it when my geography teacher lent me a vinyl recording of it (from some record club label). I then found it on vinyl on the Symphonica's own label and bought it. Then, in the 90's, I found it on CD on the IMP Classics label. Almost everything on this recording works (apart from the organ, which sounds more like just the pedals than fat chords, and the 'Mater Gloriosa' who is just too close); bits that sometimes get lost such as the mandolins, the boys voices, the harps, even the tam-tam are all perfectly clear. The soloists are wonderful, and the choir has consonants! 
Speaking of the organ part at the end, if you ever get to hear the Tabakov / Sofia Philharmonic recording on Capriccio, tell me - is that one of those old Bontempi organs from Woolworths? Also, again thinking of that organ at the end of the symphony, I have a live recording (unpublished) with the Helsinki SO and Esa-Pekka Salonen where the organist makes a huge mistake and holds onto the first chord for far too long. Yikes!


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## nightscape

Tennstedt


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## maestro267

Gonna give Chicago SO/Solti a spin during the gap between the two WC games. Stunning and prominent organ sound on this recording.


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## Mika

Kent Nagano & Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin


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## maestro267

The "Beethoven 9" of the 20th century. Scored for some of the largest forces ever called for, Mahler's 8th is one of the most extraordinary and powerful symphonies ever written! The 23-minute first movement is immense enough in itself, with an ending that would be a hugely powerful conclusion to any complete symphony, but we're not even halfway done yet! At nearly an hour, the 2nd movement easily dwarfs that.

One of the most impressive things is the recurrence of ideas between the two movements. A significant idea in II is the "Accende lumen sensibus" theme introduced in I, and the cleverest one of all (imo) is the fact that the choir's opening notes comes back at the very end, in the horns and trombones, in inverted and rhythmically-altered form.


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## omega

I have two CDs of this work.
Guiseppe Sinopoli | Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus | Studer, Blasi, Jo, Meier, Nagai, Lewis, Allen, Sotin








Abbado | Berliner Philharmoniker | Rundfunkchor Berline | Prager Philharmonischer Chor | Cheryl Studer, Sylvia McNair, Andrea Rost, Anne Sofie von Otter, Rosemarie Lang, Peter Seiffert, Bryn Terfel, Jan-Hendrik Rootering








Surpisingly enough, I prefer for this symphony Sinopoli's interpretation, though it's not perfect ; I think Abbado lacks of vivacity.

I've also heard Bertini's interpretation was excellent, but I couldn't find it on Spotify or anywhere else on the Internet. Does somebody confirm this "rumor"?


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## techniquest

> I've also heard Bertini's interpretation was excellent, but I couldn't find it on Spotify or anywhere else on the Internet. Does somebody confirm this "rumor"?


I'll pop it in the player tomorrow (Sunday) and let you know - it's been a long time since I've listened to that recording.


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## SONNET CLV

csacks said:


> It will be my first time to listen it carefully. I bought the Mahler´s complete edition, with the 8th performed by Sir George Solti, one of my favorite directors.
> View attachment 45434


The Solti recording is the way to go on this one. 
Listen for the theme to the movie _Schindler's List _which appears for the first time a little over five minutes into the work. It occurs at what is marked number 18 in the score. The chorus and soloists end singing for a moment (their last line being "superna gratia" and shortly after you get the first shadow of that theme. 
I've always wondered how Mahler managed to steal it from John Williams.

The Mahler 8th is a work that convinces me that aliens exist because it's a piece of music that seems impossible for a mere human being to have written. Just take a look at the score sometime. It had to have been dropped off of a spaceship by some advanced civilization. Mahler must have been walking along on one of his fabled treks, found the score lying on the path in front of him, and decided it was something he had to present as an 8th Symphony (since he had done nearly as heroic a job seven times before).

Which might also explain how it manages to rip off John Williams. Those aliens can play with time travel, you know.


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## Rhythm

What a wonderful Saturday morning of listening. Thank you for suggesting the Mahler!

Mahler Symphony #8 | Riccardo Chailly
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, RSO Berlin






​
Jane Eaglen, soprano I; Anne Schwanewilms, soprano II; Ruth Ziesak, soprano III; Sara Fulgoni, contralto I; Anna Larsson, contralto II; Ben Happner, tenor; Peter Mattei, baritone; and San-Hendrik Rootering, bass.

Prague Philharmonic Choir, Choir I; Netherlands Radio Choir, Choir II; Jongenskoor van het Kathedrale Koor St Bavo; Jongenskoor van het Sacramentskoor, Breda; and violinist, Vesko Eschkenazy.

_________________
With the (IMSLP) score pulled up, it and my background in vocals and chorals kept me grounded, thank goodness, during the first listen in a long time to Sym#8, in contrast to getting lost numerous times in Syms#1and2 during the last two weeks of studying. Yeah, think of me practicing again listening with scores since I've got the time right now to plunge into Mahler. Part One ended on p.74 in the score; Part Two ended p.218.

Aside from Mahler's recognizable orchestral-question-and-answer-manifested progressions, sometimes suspended over several measures, sending my ears and body to all corners of our universe, we've got vocal soloists singing every dynamic marking known to humankind. Each of the soloists, even at fortissimo, sounded as if they had power in reserve, except when singing near or at the tops of their ranges, and those fortissimos were then handy. When soloists' entries were on their higher pitches marked pianissimo, the sopranos were in their play grounds, spinning those high C's, beautifully. The tenor and baritone had just as much control, too. And, you could hear consonants!

The most enjoyable listening moments were hearing the soloists' indistinguishable vibratos during ensemble. During solo lines, however, vibratos might've been a bit wider than expected, especially the bass soloist.

Chailly's directions for ritardandos and rallentandos for vocals and/or choruses with orchestra were sensitively accomplished, every one. Else where, you know Mahler, like others, could easily orchestrate for a final syllable of a word over eight beats for anyone of a number of reasons, and Mahler reasoned each built-in slowing, phasing into the next section.

I realize what I've written with vocalists in mind could be written for any other piece with superb singers; as a pianist, though, the human voice is my second love, having already years of experience singing and accompanying literature for sopranos and tenors. Sym#8 has now become my portal for a period of studying the other Mahler symphonies, and #3 is coming right up with another round of singing!

It was a great morning of listening, and when I was ready to post, TC was down. The site must've been down for a long time. I really wouldn't know how long since I stopped trying entry, and went instead for a second uninterrupted listen to Part One, for pleasure. Then, on to lunch.

R.


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## techniquest

> Listen for the theme to the movie Schindler's List which appears for the first time a little over five minutes into the work. It occurs at what is marked number 18 in the score. The chorus and soloists end singing for a moment (their last line being "superna gratia" and shortly after you get the first shadow of that theme.
> I've always wondered how Mahler managed to steal it from John Williams.
> 
> The Mahler 8th is a work that convinces me that aliens exist because it's a piece of music that seems impossible for a mere human being to have written.


Ah yes, that's the theme that comes in when the bell is clanging. 
Are you discounting the theory that Mahler himself was in fact an alien...?


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## techniquest

> I've also heard Bertini's interpretation was excellent, but I couldn't find it on Spotify or anywhere else on the Internet. Does somebody confirm this "rumor"?


Okay, I've just listened to the opening of part 1, and (having rebuilt the walls!) the whole of part 2. I can confirm that it is indeed an excellent interpretation. The Kolner Rundfunk Symphony Orchestra is very powerful in the loud parts, but also very delicate where necessary - and let's face it, in this symphony there are a lot of very quiet sections especially in part 2. But I could hear the harps and glockenspiels, and the Mater Gloriosa was suitably distant. There is a powerful held organ pedal at the climax of the 'Blicket Auf' section which doesn't always get noticed; and the long build up to the finish is taken slowly (which I like), and the very end is outrageously powerful (get that organ and brass!!). The symphony is on one disc in this complete set by Bertini and runs to 78:50.


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## GioCar

CyrilWashbrook said:


> This will be the first time I've heard the Mahler 8. Except for the first three, I haven't found his symphonies particularly engaging, and therefore I haven't been very diligent in making the time to listen to all of them. But I'll have a go to see if this one captures the imagination. Chailly/RCO for me.


This evening I'll go with Chailly and the Concertgebouw Orchestra as well.
One of the best in the Chailly cycle, imo.


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## TurnaboutVox

I also have two recordings available:

















I'm going with this one today:

*Gustav Mahler
Symphony No. 8 in E flat 'Symphony of a Thousand'*
City of Birmingham SO, Simon Rattle [EMI Classics,2010]
John Relyea, Jane Henschel, Jon Villars, Birgit Remmert, London Symphony Chorus, Toronto Children's Chorus


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## Zarathustra

omega said:


> Surpisingly enough, I prefer for this symphony Sinopoli's interpretation, though it's not perfect ; I think Abbado lacks of vivacity.


I listened to both but I actually favor Abbado's. Seems to flow very gently, unassumed but powerful. The climaxes at the end of both movements move me to tears. Glorious performance.

Sinopoli is a good performance too. I prefer Abbado's though, especially if I'm listening with headphones.


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## CyrilWashbrook

I quite enjoyed it without really being grabbed by it, which resembles my first impression of most of the Mahler symphonies that I've heard so far.

The overall Mahler "sound" ought to be something that appeals to me as a fan of expansive, late Romantic symphonies (to generalise massively). I suppose my general difficulty with his symphonies is seeing how everything fits together and where the music is heading: it feels to a certain extent as though I'm listening to a long series of set pieces tacked together. Well-constructed set pieces, for sure, but the overall coherence passes me by. Clearly these works make sense to many people, so I need perhaps to listen a few more times with a greater sense of purpose.


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## shadowdancer

ptr said:


> View attachment 45415
> 
> The best performance of the eight ever! :tiphat:
> Soloists: Joyce Barker, Agnes Giebel and Beryll Hatt, sopranos; Kerstin Meyer and Helen Watts, contraltos; Kenneth Neate, tenor; Alfred Orda, baritone; Arnold van Mill, bass.
> BBC Chorus; BBC Choral Society; Goldsmith's Choral Union; Hampstead Choral Society;Emanuel School Boys' Choir; Orpington Junior Singers; Goldsmith's Choral Union
> London Symphony Orchestra u Jasha Horenstein
> Recorded; Royal Albert Hall, London 20 March 1959 (BBC Legends)
> /ptr


What a coincidence. Just gave myself this weekend this box:
http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=1970700

An outrageous download price of USD 25 for 20 CD's.
And when I start with the first CD (Mahler 8th Horenstein) I was already happy with my acquisition.

Cheers!!


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## brotagonist

I listened concentratedly to Part One and I started to do the same with Part Two, when I got sidetracked by some rss feeds I follow  Already, I feel much more comfortable with this symphony (thanks to Mahlerian's alalysis and my own patience in taking the time to really listen) and I will give it another go later this afternoon, trying to give Part Two the same attention I have already given Part One once 

I had never noticed it before, but Mahler's slow, sweeping gestures and pauses remind me a bit of Sibelius' symphonies (that I only came to know last summer, while I have had a fair bit of exposure to Mahler since the 1990s, at least).


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## Mahlerian

CyrilWashbrook said:


> The overall Mahler "sound" ought to be something that appeals to me as a fan of expansive, late Romantic symphonies (to generalise massively). I suppose my general difficulty with his symphonies is seeing how everything fits together and where the music is heading: it feels to a certain extent as though I'm listening to a long series of set pieces tacked together. Well-constructed set pieces, for sure, but the overall coherence passes me by. Clearly these works make sense to many people, so I need perhaps to listen a few more times with a greater sense of purpose.


Everything in Mahler's music, _especially in the Eighth_, is connected. I'll admit it might take some time to hear it, but it's certainly worthwhile.

I think there are a few things that people listening to Mahler for the first time struggle with:
1) The length. It's not as big of an issue as you might think, but it can seem intimidating.
2) The forms. Mahler makes use of traditional forms, but he manages to make them not sound traditional by hiding the signposts, so to speak. Very much the opposite of Sibelius, in a way, whose music buries traditional forms but ends up sounding traditionally symphonic all the same.
3) The lack of literal repetition. Mahler never states something the same way twice. It's always different, and this becomes more true in his later works.
4) Counterpoint. Mahler's music is very consistently contrapuntal, and each line is quite independent. Furthermore, most of those independent lines are _also_ thematic, and so important to the development of the whole.
5) Orchestration. In line with the above, Mahler's orchestra is one where any and every combination of instruments is employed. Far more often than sectional distinctions such as "the strings play this, the woodwinds play this, and the brass play this", as one hears in most late romantic music, Mahler will far more frequently have the violas and bassoons playing one thing, the horns playing something else, and the basses and bassoons playing a modified version of what the tuba is playing. Combined with the fact that everything is contrapuntal and most of it is thematically significant, it can leave a listener accustomed to listening for "melody/accompaniment" wondering what, exactly, they should be following. In Mahler, the most important line will appear anywhere and everywhere in the orchestra, and move from instrument to instrument, section to section, and register to register, constantly.


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## ptr

shadowdancer said:


> What a coincidence. Just gave myself this weekend this box:
> http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=1970700


Looks like a Gold Medal Catch! :clap:

/ptr


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## BRHiler

I always thought the general consensus was that Mahler's 7th is the oddball, not the 8th. 

That being said, I have a plethora of recordings of this one, but I'm going to just focus on two

Simon Rattle, CBSO, etc.
MTT, San Fran SO, etc.

MTT does a very unusual thing at the end right before the last choral double forte where one of the female voices holds on into the chorale instead of the break that everyone else does. I don't know why he does that, and I've not noticed it in the score to hold onto that note, but it is kind of interesting.


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## Mahlerian

BRHiler said:


> MTT does a very unusual thing at the end right before the last choral double forte where one of the female voices holds on into the chorale instead of the break that everyone else does. I don't know why he does that, and I've not noticed it in the score to hold onto that note, but it is kind of interesting.


Not having heard/noticed this before, I looked it up in my miniature score, and sure enough, the sopranos and altos in the second choir are supposed to hold their note through.


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## clara s

why nobody mentioned Dimitri?

a Mahler pioneer as he is called?









or Leonard?









both with V.P.O.

And of course the unforgettable Leopold Stokowski - New York Philharmonic recording...


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## CyrilWashbrook

Mahlerian said:


> Everything in Mahler's music, _especially in the Eighth_, is connected. I'll admit it might take some time to hear it, but it's certainly worthwhile.


I'm sure this is right. I'm prepared to be patient: I periodically return to Mahler's works in an effort to develop a greater appreciation of them.

I have to say that length in itself shouldn't be a problem for me, given that I happily sit through Bruckner's symphonies, including Celibidache's heavily drawn-out recordings. Points 2 to 5 are very likely to be applicable though.


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## brotagonist

I listened to Part Two at noon, giving it the same degree of attention as Part One a day ago: on the floor with a pillow, feet centred between and pointing to the two speakers  

This symphony is a gift to me at this time of bereavement, as my father is passing away. He was diagnosed with an advanced incurable cancer four weeks ago. Three days ago, he suddenly lost the ability to speak and walk, so we had to move him to a hospice the day before yesterday, where he lay in an essentially comatose state until yesterday, when he woke up briefly to smile radiantly and say "I'm fine" and then "goodbye" as he waved goodbye to my mother and me, before falling back into a comatose sleep from which the nurses have not been able to rouse him. Today around suppertime, there was a brief spell when he appeared to become alert, moving his limbs and mouth as if to speak and having the faintest of smiles on his face, enough to make me feel almost certain that he was aware of my presence, before he fell back into a deep sleep.

This symphony will forever be a requiem to my father for me. It is a fine choice that sounds reverent, but not 'churchy', with alternations of sadness and joy, and ending in a majestic redemption.


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## Haydn man

CyrilWashbrook said:


> I quite enjoyed it without really being grabbed by it, which resembles my first impression of most of the Mahler symphonies that I've heard so far.
> 
> The overall Mahler "sound" ought to be something that appeals to me as a fan of expansive, late Romantic symphonies (to generalise massively). I suppose my general difficulty with his symphonies is seeing how everything fits together and where the music is heading: it feels to a certain extent as though I'm listening to a long series of set pieces tacked together. Well-constructed set pieces, for sure, but the overall coherence passes me by. Clearly these works make sense to many people, so I need perhaps to listen a few more times with a greater sense of purpose.


I think this sums up my initial feelings on listening to this work for the first time. However reading Mahlerian's insightful and detailed posts gives me pointers for future listening and better appreciation. Think overall I am slowly getting the measure of Mahler


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## brotagonist

My father passed away this evening, on Canada Day 2014, to Mahler's 8th and fireworks.


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## realdealblues

brotagonist said:


> My father passed away this evening, on Canada Day 2014, to Mahler's 8th and fireworks.


Sorry for your loss  I hope Mahler's 8th will forever bring you comfort when thinking of your father.


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## DeepR

I've heard two versions of it.

The recent one with Dudamel, live from Caracas, with a huge, huge choir. I got the Bluray after I just bought a new sound system and bluray player and I thought it would be nice to give it a test.  
The recording has quite a lot of background noise. For the rest, it's impressive, but not as good as I wanted it to be. In fact, it was a bit of a let down. Something about the sound and some of the solo singers; maybe it was simply too much to get a good recording of.

Then the one with Rattle in the RAH with the National Youth Orchestra. Only heard it in youtube quality, but I think it's much better, with a far more satisfying finale. I've listened to some other finales as well (just the Chorus Mysticus), but none capture that "sound of the universe" so well.


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## nightscape

Rhythm said:


> Chailly's directions for ritardandos and rallentandos for vocals and/or choruses with orchestra were sensitively accomplished, every one.


As much as I love Chailly's version (even the slow beginning), the only thing that truly bothered me was the inexplicable dead silent pause right at the very end, leading into the final series of climaxing trumpet calls.


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## Bruce

brotagonist said:


> I was excited by all of the previous weeks' symphonies, but I admit that this is my least favourite Mahler symphony. Bought to complete my collection, I chose this edition for the fine bonus, the unfinished Symphony 10:
> 
> View attachment 45418
> 
> 
> Sinopoli/Philharmonia
> 
> Maybe it will grow on me some


It took me a while to warm up to this one, but is now one of my favorites. My favorites are Solti's and Shaw's, though I've read Shaw is rather panned by most critics.


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## Vaneyes

brotagonist said:


> My father passed away this evening, on Canada Day 2014, to Mahler's 8th and fireworks.


My deepest condolences. :angel:


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## Rhythm

nightscape said:


> As much as I love Chailly's version (even the slow beginning), the only thing that truly bothered me was the inexplicable dead silent pause right at the very end, leading into the final series of climaxing trumpet calls.


nightscape, I think I found in the score the place you've spoken of, and the pause, as you say, is 13 measures from the end.

That moment of pause can be explained by noting the mark of a bolded comma, one each for every instrument down the entire page, except maybe percussion(?). It's as if Mahler wanted suspense - to be suspended, and that moment is, for me, magnificent; a moment for taking a Big Breath before hearing the final chord, which extends 13 measures while all instruments, except strings, build from very loud to very, very loud.


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## nightscape

Interesting. I never read the entire score before, I'll take a look when I get home from work. From the various sources to which I've listened, I am familiar with a slight pause, but that's the first time it seem to come to a dead stop before starting up again. Not sure how I feel about it; maybe I need to hear it more to get comfortable with it.


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## starthrower

I'm a little late to the party, but gearing up for next weekend. My library has at least 6-7 versions of no. 8, plus the Mahler Symphonies Owner's Manual. Just finished listening to MTT, and will have Horenstein, Tennstedt, and Solti for next weekend. I guess I'll have to buy the Boulez. They don't have that one. Rinky-dink library!


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## Autocrat

Very late to the party: mine's Kent Nagano (can't link pics in yet, you'll have to make do with an SACD review link!).

Also have Antoni Wit/Warsaw Philharmonic on Blur-Ray Audio sitting at home, but haven't listened to it yet. Anyone know if it's worth the effort?


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## Mahlerian

Sorry, I haven't heard either the Nagano or the Wit in this instance, though of course I've heard them in other things. Be sure to tell us how the Wit is.


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## hpowders

After being disappointed with the Solti-too hysterical, boxy sound; etc, I find myself quite content with the Boulez.


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