# Is North Korea least musically talented nation of Asia?



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

How come, there are so few good composers in North Korean history? When I think of North Korean, only a handful of minor composers comes to my mind, say, mmmmmmmmmm, mmmmmm and donknowmm. In comparison to other big asian nations, like China, Japan, Mongolia, Brunei and Vietnam this is a really modest contribution to world classical music. Why is that so? Did politics, religion, poor economy or cultural isolation hinder the developement of music? What is your opinion on that? :tiphat: and no I'm so lonely jokes either.............


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I know their string instruments, pianos etc. would sound terrible because they all have to be strung with vinylon.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Ah yes the success story of the juche philosophy.........................


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> How come, there are so few good composers in North Korean history?


does South Korea fare any better there?


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> When I think of North Korean, only a handful of minor composers comes to my mind, say, mmmmmmmmmm, mmmmmm and donknowmm.


Here's something for your memory:










Actually, Isang Yun is the only Korean-born composer whom I'm aware of, and have discs of music by. I think Yun was born in what is now classified as South Korea. As for North Korea - I don't know. I would think there are other Asian countries besides North Korea whose composers seem to possess no intermational reputation in Western musical spheres.
Has classical music had anybody from Indonesia? Or from the (former) Burma? Are the Balinese and the Javanese known for anything other than _gamelan_ music?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Yes, some examples of composers are: Hi Kyung Kim,Shin Hae Chul, Junsang Bahk, Young-ja Lee, Lee Tzsche, Unsuk Chin and Insook Choi.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm aware of Unsuk Chin, but haven't yet heard any of her music.

Perhaps the distribution of music (publishing, recordings, etc.) is more responsible than lack of talent?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Unsuk Chin is from South Korea, so shoulod be available - I'll see what I can find.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Didn't take much to find .. here is Chin- Violin Concerto


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Didn't take much to find .. here is Chin- Violin Concerto


The Violin Concerto is by far the best Chin Work that I have heard! Back in 2001 I heard the premier of her "Cantata" Kãla which was Ok but so incredibly poorly written for the choir, soprano and bass soloists, like the she had none what so ever grip on what their vocal ranges are humanly capable of...

When I worked in Manchuria some years ago, we could sometimes get North Korean TV, most of the music heard there was very traditional Korean Stuff , not very memorable...

/ptr


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## ethanjamesescano (Aug 29, 2012)

No, North Korea have a place where the top music students are gathered. The students are not 20 years old or above, but below. They are child prodigies, if you can only see them. The reason why we can't see the talents of North Korea is because they do not have freedom of speech, they didn't have any internet connection. My South Korean classmate said they are forbidden to go out of NK, if you will go out of NK, you'll die. Some of NKoreans swim the sea to get out of hell. You can see those talents in a documentary on Youtube. Search for the video "sneaking inside North Korea, uploaded by Vice.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

The North Korean leader, ready for war:


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I wonder if the NK composers are only allowed to compose tributes for Kim jong.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

What about Thailand? Or Indonesia? Or Vietnam? I don't remember any prominent composers from those countries. The only major composers from Asian countries I can think of come from Japan, China or South Korea.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Yun Isang ought to count as North Korean since that appears to have been where his loyalty lay. 

North Korea is simply too poor and backward and isolated to be judged in comparison with other countries, except maybe Myanmar or the Democratic Republic of Congo or something. But in terms of performers per capita, you'd have to say that in terms of Western classical music, South Korea must be one of the most talented states in the world. 

Of course that's ** too, because it's all about culture rather than innate talent - as ought to be so obvious that I probably cannot express my feelings on the terms of this discussion within the limits set by terms of service of this site. So I won't express my feelings on that, though I promise I would be fiercely insulting if we had this discussion in person. Anyway, South Koreans simply value classical music performance more than most other cultures - Myung-wha Chung is a lot more famous here than Yo-Yo Ma is in the USA, Sumi Jo is more famous here than Renée Fleming is in the USA. And for that matter both Yo-Yo Ma and Renée Fleming are probably more famous here than they are in the USA. This is because one of the main ways that South Koreans express their ambition is to value classical music, especially performance and appreciation. On the other hand, they don't highly value composing - Unsuk Chin is not very famous, and no one has heard of Yun Isang.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

How many Chinese composers were there (other than those in committees of the sort that produced the awful _Yellow River Concerto_) before Mao's 'Cultural Revolution' (for 'revolution', read 'stifling') came to an end?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Isang Yun (also spelled Yun I-sang; 17 September 1917 - 3 November 1995) was a Korean-born composer who made his later career in Germany.

Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isang_Yun


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## ethanjamesescano (Aug 29, 2012)

violadude said:


> What about Thailand? Or Indonesia? Or Vietnam? I don't remember any prominent composers from those countries. The only major composers from Asian countries I can think of come from Japan, China or South Korea.


Include the Philippines there. After high school, I'm going into a conservatory, and I wish someday I can represent my country.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

ethanjamesescano said:


> Include the Philippines there. After high school, I'm going into a conservatory, and I wish someday I can represent my country.


That would be awesome!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

There is very little ethnic difference between North and South Korea, in fact less than most countries as it has often been rather isolated. So the fact that Isang Yun was born in the south of the country, years before it was ever divided along political lines, makes him Korean, it is only an accident of history that he is claimed by either of the subsequent states.

It is rather like saying Bach is an East German from the DDR or that Hans Zimmer is from the non existent country of West Germany because he was born there while divided.

I think you'll find a talent for music is evenly distributed worldwide and it is a lot more about how those talents are respected and fostered as to which countries rise.

This is a pretty cool CD from the sublime frequencies catalogue, they have lots of interesting music from the region:


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

quack said:


> There is very little ethnic difference between North and South Korea, in fact less than most countries as it has often been rather isolated. So the fact that Isang Yun was born in the south of the country, years before it was ever divided along political lines, makes him Korean, it is only an accident of history that he is claimed by either of the subsequent states.
> 
> It is rather like saying Bach is an East German from the DDR or that Hans Zimmer is from the non existent country of West Germany because he was born there while divided.


You make an interesting point. The nationalities attributed nowadays to composers, according to our modern political maps, can be misleading. We call Mahler an 'Austrian' composer when his home town is actually in modern Moravia (in the Czech republic), yet we also call Mozart Austrian when Salzburg, although NOW in Austria, was a part of a complex series of duchies in BAVARIA at the time of Wolfie's birth in 1756. In fact, Mozart considered himself a Bavarian, not an Austrian. The inconsistencies don't help us at all.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

quack said:


> There is very little ethnic difference between North and South Korea, in fact less than most countries as it has often been rather isolated. So the fact that Isang Yun was born in the south of the country, years before it was ever divided along political lines, makes him Korean, it is only an accident of history that he is claimed by either of the subsequent states.
> 
> It is rather like saying Bach is an East German from the DDR or that Hans Zimmer is from the non existent country of West Germany because he was born there while divided.


Really, it's not. He advocated for the North Korean regime; he bears a share of responsibility in the story of Oh Kil-nam and Shin Suk-ja.

In defense of Yun and Oh, South Korea was also an authoritarian state at that time, as events like the Gwangju massacre (for which Yun wrote memorial music) show. The actions of people like Yun and Oh played a part in transforming it into the relatively free and democratic state it is now. It's an ugly, complicated world, and innocent people get crushed. But anyway, Yun was clearly loyal to the North, and Shin and her daughters paid for his loyalty and his influence on Oh with their lives.

That's really not like East Germany claiming Bach.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Is there even music available in North Korea at the moment that isn't propaganda? The reason the country's musical culture is in the dark is due to its political darkness and harsh treatment of its citizens. It will be interesting if in the future we are able to go in and hear the music that is taught to the children there (after some sort of revolution, in the same way that we have propaganda music of the Nazis, etc.)


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

oogabooha said:


> Is there even music available in North Korea at the moment that isn't propaganda? The reason the country's musical culture is in the dark is due to its political darkness and harsh treatment of its citizens. It will be interesting if in the future we are able to go in and hear the music that is taught to the children there (after some sort of revolution, in the same way that we have propaganda music of the Nazis, etc.)







Loads of it on youtube.

South Korea broadcasts stuff like that. Along with North Korean tv, etc. It's effective propaganda for South Korea, because the people here can see how pathetic North Korean production values are. Conversely, one of the North Korean regime's biggest problems is South Korean DVDs selling on their black markets. At this point it's too late - anyone in Pyongyang with a DVD player knows that the South is far richer and freer than they are. But the regime still tries to stop this info from spreading.


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## ethanjamesescano (Aug 29, 2012)

science said:


> Loads of it on youtube.
> 
> South Korea broadcasts stuff like that. Along with North Korean tv, etc. It's effective propaganda for South Korea, because the people here can see how pathetic North Korean production values are. Conversely, one of the North Korean regime's biggest problems is South Korean DVDs selling on their black markets. At this point it's too late - anyone in Pyongyang with a DVD player knows that the South is far richer and freer than they are. But the regime still tries to stop this info from spreading.


That's right! The people of NK does not know how angry the world is to them. The government boycotts the US in NK, making US a bad rep in NK. What I like about North Korea is that they are conservatives, until now, their dress are like of the 50's. The bad thing is, their government.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Korea has wonderful traditional music, at least.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm sorry, oogabooga, I misread your post as if you were asking about musical propaganda.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Some interesting posts, Science, thank you.

Reading the Wikipedia-article on North Korea´s music life, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_North_Korea, a point seems to stand out:"The composition and performance of all music in North Korea is controlled by the state, and all lyrics are optimistic."

There are however a couple of symphony orchestras, such as, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Symphony_Orchestra_of_the_Democratic_People's_Republic_of_Korea. According to Wikipedia they perform about 70% music by North Korean composers and 30% by Western composers. These performances have also included Mahler symphonies, but it´s difficult to say whether the general North Korean public has any access to such performances, in a country where for instance ordinary people aren´t allowed to move outside their own region without a permission, have any contact with outside media, or are busy with maintaining basic commodities. It´s probably doubtful that they would dare to show much interest in it.

There´s also the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isang_Yun_Orchestra, which has recorded Isang Yun for Western companies. The appraisal of Yun must be politically loaded, as Science points out, and perhaps the repertoire by him performed in North Korea is very selective; it seems quite paradoxical to popularize him there because of the advanced, avantgarde traits of most of his music, as opposed to the general trend of North Korean music. This includes very kitschy "collective compostions" like the "_Rachmaninov-light_" piano concerto "The Blizzard of the Baekdu Mountain" 



 or the "Sea of Blood Symphony" 



.

A pity with such extreme censorship; they´ve obviously got loads of good musicians that aren´t allowed to flourish. This pianist alledgedly choose to escape the country due to an innocent interest in the - to him - very exotic music of Richard Clayderman http://freemuse.org/archives/662 (!); but on the other hand, a sort of Korean-folk music/big band jazz hybrid is played by an offical ensemble on local TV here 



.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, when a nation's life is pretty much centered on survival and on ideology, there is not much room for thinking, much less for creating art.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

violadude said:


> What about Thailand? Or Indonesia? Or Vietnam? I don't remember any prominent composers from those countries. The only major composers from Asian countries I can think of come from Japan, China or South Korea.


That's a bit of a eurocentric point of view. There may not be many composers for Western style ensembles, but, like India, Indonesia has a long tradition of its own classical music.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

science said:


> South Korea broadcasts stuff like that. Along with North Korean tv, etc. It's effective propaganda for South Korea, because the people here can see how pathetic North Korean production values are. Conversely, one of the North Korean regime's biggest problems is South Korean DVDs selling on their black markets. At this point it's too late - anyone in Pyongyang with a DVD player knows that the South is far richer and freer than they are. But the regime still tries to stop this info from spreading.


This is a bit off topic, but they say the Soviet Union - another totalitarian state - was destroyed not by guns, bombs and other instruments of warfare, but by jeans, rock'n'roll and Hollywood movies - all those things that were so difficult to obtain in the country, but that people cared for much more than for building a "happy communist future".


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Unsk Chin's brilliant and highly entertaining opera "Alice in Wonderland ", based on the Lewis Caroll book, is available on DVD . It's the world premiere performance in Munich sevral years ago conducted by Kent Nagano .
The music is atonal but not at al forbidding , inventive and colorfully orchestrated . The libretto and the performance are in English . By all means get it . Even if you think you don't like atonal music, you'll find it great fun. The sets ,costumes and entire production are brilliant . I'd like to hear more of this composer's music.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)




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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

KenOC said:


>


As lousy as any other communist country's anthem musically and lyrically.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

KenOC said:


>


Sounds so old Soviet era, that it seem nostalgic in a way! From another time.............


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

science said:


> On the other hand, they don't highly value composing - Unsuk Chin is not very famous, and no one has heard of Yun Isang.


I have been informed that I should modify this comment. The composers are not nearly as famous as the performers, but they are still somewhat famous. So I've been told. However, in fairness to my original comment, almost every time I've told a Korean person that there are famous composers, they haven't heard of Unsuk Chin or Yun Isang, and furthermore the person who informed me that Yun Isang is famous believed that he'd written the national anthem of South Korea, which is not true. So. Anyway, I just needed to clarify that (at least the names of) the composers may be more famous than I realized.

I'm currently in the one of the best classical music stores in Korea, and they have 3 different cds of Isang Yun's music, none of Chin Unsuk's (though they have DVDs of Alice in Wonderland). For comparison they have 5 cds of Lutoslawski's music, 13 cds of Rimsky-Korsakov's music, 1 of Cage, and none of Carter.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ "1 of Cage", I'm very impressed..... good to hear!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

science said:


> I'm currently in the one of the best classical music stores in Korea, and they have 3 different cds of Isang Yun's music, none of Chin Unsuk's (though they have DVDs of Alice in Wonderland). For comparison they have 5 cds of Lutoslawski's music, 13 cds of Rimsky-Korsakov's music, 1 of Cage, and none of Carter.


To be fair, only 2(?) commercial CD releases of Chin's music have been made so far. That's nothing compared to the others you mention.


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