# Do you agree with this quote?



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Found this quote on the internet in a book review.

https://relentlesspursuit.wordpress...og-2-of-12-the-good-opera-guide-denis-forman/

'Opera has always been a collection of the most C-grade stories held together by A-grade music'

Agree or disagree?


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

1. DavidA, that's quite a clickbait title that could be used for any other quote that needs to be questioned. I'm not going to ask anything else but I don't pass that strategy.

2. For Mozart, I do.
But I ignore too much opera outside Verdi and Wagner. I cannot be sure if only those authors were the only ones able to bring drama and theatre to the opera. 19th century could be a culminating point of the genre only bettered by Richard Strauss with his three famous R-rated opera scripts (with the help of Hugo von Hofmannsthal, who I praise for the Elektra libretto).
There are many opera librettos that while not as psychological complicated as many novels or theatre plays, are able to portray all the topics and feelings of the characters with their music. Norma comes to mind.

That is the reason why I mostly disagree with that statement, out of my extended opera ignorance.

But don't start me on musicals. They are the reason I avoided opera for such a long time.

*And also, let's never forget that the mentioned statement judges opera librettos from the contemporary theories on script-writing.* I don't think any production company would have hired Richard Wagner as a script-writer today. The standards are not the same. Producers and film directors expect a script to be understood on first sight, and if they have the first impression that Tristan and Isolde fall in love after drinking a love potion, they laugh on your face. That was my first experience with TUI and I was then very wrong. Producers need, for the money, something understandable that can increase the chances of getting back their investment. I don't want to say they are narrowminded and superficial. In production, sometimes the best choice is not to do a film for the cost and the revenue-risk. Many unfortunately just underestimate the public's intelligence and think that they are the narrowminded and they just produce what the public is willing to consume based on statistics.

To go back to the question, the statement judges 17th to 20th century opera librettos from the American film perspective of the cause-effect relationships, and the three-act rigged structure. It's in the cause-effect points where opera librettos fail the approval of current script-writing, thus object of mockery and parody (myself included).

Sorry for the explanation. I studied film Production and Script-writing in University and I know how art is controlled again by money and risk-asessments.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Of course. It's opera!
Opera is a melodramatic form. 
Every once in a while you get a true account (_Dialogues des Carmelites_) but more often than not it is fraught with obscure stories _Ernani _("sorry darling,I just heard the horn so I cannot marry you because I promised to kill myself if I heard the horn blow and I must honor my fate. Addio!")

So just lean back and enjoy this magnificent art form that offers so much in the way of beautiful music and singing and simply roll with the absurd. (to a certain degree, that is. I don't support a director's crazy re-figuring over a composer's already obscure plot.)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Found this quote on the internet in a book review.
> 
> https://relentlesspursuit.wordpress...og-2-of-12-the-good-opera-guide-denis-forman/
> 
> ...


Disagree. Not about the A-grade music, but about the C-grade stories. If you reduce almost any story to its outline, it can sound ridiculous. The strength of a story is in its telling - so in telling it in a stageworthy way, with good music, it ceases to be 'C-grade'.

Opera stories may be seen as 'unrealistic'; so are fairy-tales, beast fables, myths and legends, and the plots of Shakespeare's tragedies, but they are 'true' in their own way. And many 'unrealistic' stories occur in real history too.


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## russetvelvet (Oct 14, 2016)

I disagree. I don't think it is correct to separate the story and the music and examine these two elements individually. Opera is a holistic art, a type of musical drama in which the music and the story complement each other. The story, as inane as it might be per se, could well be a perfect vehicle to create tension, to carry the music; the music, as melodramatic or unpleasant as it might be per se, could well fit into the context of a sensational story. So it's rather a situation of 1+1>2, at least in good operas.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

It doesn’t matter. Opera is a beautiful escape into another world, like children at play, that is not dependent on reality or the usual expectations of a good story without music.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I do not know.

I am familiar with operas that have silly plots, but some do not.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

It's a classic opera stereotype and like most stereotypes doesn't stand up after a little scrutiny.

Dialogues of the Carmelites is a wonderful story of simple pathos told in quite a subtle way (perhaps until you get to the end).

L'incoronazione di Poppea is another great story with a twist at the end (the baddies triumph).

Then again there are some stories where it's a matter of opinion, some would say The Ring is complete nonsense, whereas it is a deep psychological drama about the grand sweep of being human. Is Tosca a shabby little shocker or an edge of your seat thriller? I know a lot of people who can't stand bel canto plots (but love the music), whereas I love a good old fashioned tragic Donizetti or Bellini where one or more protagonists get their heads chopped off or are poisoned etc.

It's also a matter of opinion what 'grade A' music is.

N.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The Conte said:


> It's a classic opera stereotype and like most stereotypes doesn't stand up after a little scrutiny.
> 
> Dialogues of the Carmelites is a wonderful story of simple pathos told in quite a subtle way (perhaps until you get to the end).
> 
> ...


Beautiful post. Beautiful.


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