# Piece killing finales



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

What are examples of pieces, in your opinion, where the whole piece is fantastic but the finale (or even just the end of the piece) drops the ball so hard?

I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)




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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I've always felt disappointed by the finales of Brahm's First and Dvorak's Ninth.

In the case of Brahms, he's just trying so hard, too hard. And the main theme of the finale always seemed corny and silly to me. It was supposed to be an homage to Beethoven, I guess, but it sounds more like a parody to me, and one that isn't aware of itself.

As for Dvorak, it is a little strange. The finale kind of mirrors the first movement, which I like very much, so I am quite puzzled as to why I don't like the finale as well. I must say that I got to know Dvorak's Ninth and Tchaikovsky's Sixth at the same time, and I was struck by the genius of Tchaikovsky's decision to end his symphony with a slow and quiet movement. Perhaps Dvorak just seemed so conventional by comparison. At any rate, I don't like the main theme of the Dvorak finale. And that's a problem with melody-based composers like Dvorak: once you don't like a theme, there's little to make up for it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Andreas said:


> I've always felt disappointed by the finales of Brahm's First and Dvorak's Ninth.
> 
> In the case of Brahms, he's just trying so hard, too hard. And the main theme of the finale always seemed corny and silly to me. It was supposed to be an homage to Beethoven, I guess, but it sounds more like a parody to me, and one that isn't aware of itself.


I agree with you on that Brahms finale. That finale was kind of hyped up too much for me so when I finally listened to it I was kind of like...meh...I don't think it transitions very well from the intense drama to the "big theme." And the balance is off or something. I'm not sure, but very disappointing after such a brilliant first movement.


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## Sequentia (Nov 23, 2011)

Bruckner's 7th Symphony.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Sequentia said:


> Bruckner's 7th Symphony.


Not familiar enough with that one. What don't you like about it?


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## Sequentia (Nov 23, 2011)

violadude said:


> Not familiar enough with that one. What don't you like about it?


The main problem of the finale, to me, is that the movement is striving for a "take off" point, but never succeeds at finding it; it's constantly looking for something beyond its opening, but never reaches such a stage and, out of nowhere, comes to an end.


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## tzadik (May 8, 2007)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


>


I have to agree with this. As Hanslick put it, the finale of Beethoven's Ninth is an ugly head attached to a beautiful body.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Both the Samuel Barber and John Adams Violin Concerti come immediately to mind - that 'obligatory' technical showpiece final (3rd) movement of each sounds utterly 'tacked on' to the body of the first two movements.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Both the Samuel Barber and John Adams Violin Concerti come immediately to mind - that 'obligatory' technical showpiece final (3rd) movement of each sounds utterly 'tacked on' to the body of the first two movements.


Samuel Barber eh? Well maybe I should go listen to it again. I liked the last movement when I first heard it, and I've heard it only once!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

tzadik said:


> I have to agree with this. As Hanslick put it, the finale of Beethoven's Ninth is an ugly head attached to a beautiful body.


Just so you know, Hanslick is most known today for these blazing kind of critiques, such as the one you've cited, which demonstrate how utterly lost he was about the more advanced music of his day - a very pedestrian critic, often enough now infamous for having being 'clueless.'


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Just so you know, Hanslick is most known today for these blazing kind of critiques, such as the one you've cited, which demonstrate how utterly lost he was about the more advanced music of his day - a very pedestrian critic, often enough now infamous for having being 'clueless.'


Maybe, but I agree with that particular one.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

Beethoven Symphony No. 3.

After the revolutionary first, heroic second, and the creative third, it boiled down to a variations on an old theme?

To be honest, I still like the symphony, but the finale could have been wished to be more groundbreaking.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Maybe, but I agree with that particular one.

He was wrong in this case as well.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Maybe, but I agree with that particular one.
> 
> He was wrong in this case as well.


_You_ were wrong in that case.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Maybe, but I agree with that particular one.
> 
> He was wrong in this case as well.


Opinions can't be wrong.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Indeed. Add me to the list of those thinking that Beethoven's 9th is THE example for piece killing finales.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

violadude said:


> Opinions can't be wrong.


Hahahahahahaahahahaah...


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## tzadik (May 8, 2007)

PetrB said:


> Just so you know, Hanslick is most known today for these blazing kind of critiques, such as the one you've cited, which demonstrate how utterly lost he was about the more advanced music of his day - a very pedestrian critic, often enough now infamous for having being 'clueless.'


Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> Hahahahahahaahahahaah...


Ya I know...that sentence doesn't work in every context lol.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


>


Do you mean that toscanini ruined the finale with his conducting or that the finale what Beethoven wrote sucks?


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

Ravel's Bolero. If you're going to spend the entire piece building up like that, at least make it worth my while.


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## chee_zee (Aug 16, 2010)

just to counteract, IMO luigi's 9th has the greatest ending I've ever heard to a piece of music, besides 'back home' and 'to far away times' from reuben kee.


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## Lokasenna (Jul 1, 2012)

I suppose the finale of Beethoven's 9th is fairly problematical. For the main issue is that Beethoven, for all his brilliance, didn't have much capacity for using the human voice well. You can see what he's trying to achieve, and on the whole I still think the 9th is wonderful, but at points it does collapse into cacophany.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

End of Mahler's 2nd. We sit for the entire thing wondering if it can get any worse, but Mahler pulls it off.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Celibidache was critical of the finale of Beethoven's Ninth too. He said that everything was very much hanging in the air, as opposed to the second movement, which he was extremely fond of.

I don't know what exactly he's referring to. The compository quality? The originality of design? I can't say whether the finale is well composed or not from a technical point of view. Though perhaps one could say that structurally it's a little all over the place. And that is quite unusual for Beethoven.

Personally, I like the finale. It has certain theatrics, which I'm not a big fan of. But it never turns into an opera mimicry, thankfully. The choral fugato is splendid, the ending quite ravishing. The march interlude always feels a little offputting, though. But in the overall context, one can accept it.


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

Definitely Barber's _Violin Concerto_, that's a famous example of a composer writing a finale without giving a crap. I disagree with the Adams' one though, I think the finale is wonderful.

I feel like this is a fairly common occurrence though. Beethoven's _Symphony #7_, Schubert's _String Quartet #14_, Schumann's _Piano Trio #2,_ Mendelssohn's _Violin Concerto_, come to mind for me.

I'm not sure if these are necessarily _piece killing_ finales, but they certainly don't help. Well, maybe the Mendelssohn, as I have a particular disdain for that last movement. I'd be interested in hearing the opposite though, pieces whose music is mostly unmemorable to begin with, but whose finale makes the piece (Beethoven's _Symphony #8_, Janáček's _String Quartet #1_, and John Adams' _Grand Pianola Music_, come to mind for those).


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Maybe, but I agree with that particular one.
> 
> He was wrong in this case as well.


One problem with repeated listening of Beethoven, and others, is the mind-flattening familiarity (and contempt) it so often breeds: I don't listen to Beethoven unless it 'happens' on my local FM station.

Just days ago that cited recording of the ninth was on and I was taken with how absolutely over-the-top truly crazy and audacious it was. It is thrilling, and does not, imo, blow the preceding movements out of the water. I suppose some find all the choral business 'intrusive' on what had to that point been an instrumental discourse.

That last movement, as set up by the previous, is absolutely effin' brilliant - and if the listener could hear it in that less than too familiar way, it might make that impression as it did upon the first audience, Mr. Earthbound Hanslick excluded


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> Opinions can't be wrong.


Opinions can't be 'right' either: they are just opinions


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

For me, there is no greater offender than the end of Shosty 5. I'm sorry for those Shosty fans (and I'll get some flack)...but that's my opinion.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jani said:


> Do you mean that toscanini ruined the finale with his conducting or that the finale what Beethoven wrote sucks?


The second one. If Toscanini ruined it, it would be an improvement.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The second one. If Toscanini ruined it, it would be an improvement.


Let Nathan explosion tell you what i think.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jani said:


> Let Nathan explosion tell you what i think.


I'm sorry, but you can't disagree with fact. :tiphat:


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

After the titanic nature of all that goes before, I have always been 'let down' by the light, quick close in D Major to Beethoven's undeniable masterpiece, the _Missa solemnis_ Op. 123. I suppose it reflects the spirit of the close of all masses the _Ite, missa est_, 'Go the mass is ended'.



violadude said:


> What are examples of pieces, in your opinion, where the whole piece is fantastic but the finale (or even just the end of the piece) drops the ball so hard?
> 
> I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I love the 'double time' ending to the Barber - don't know the Adams, yet.



PetrB said:


> Both the Samuel Barber and John Adams Violin Concerti come immediately to mind - that 'obligatory' technical showpiece final (3rd) movement of each sounds utterly 'tacked on' to the body of the first two movements.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I thought Shostakovich when I first saw this thread, but not THIS one...


Romantic Geek said:


> For me, there is no greater offender than the end of Shosty 5. I'm sorry for those Shosty fans (and I'll get some flack)...but that's my opinion.


Instead (even though the rest of the piece isn't great shakes), I thought Shostakovich _12_. I guess there's no shortage of less-than-stellar moments in that Symphony- but I'd say the closing bars are the worst!


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I thought Shostakovich when I first saw this thread, but not THIS one...Instead (even though the rest of the piece isn't great shakes), I thought Shostakovich _12_. I guess there's no shortage of less-than-stellar moments in that Symphony- but I'd say the closing bars are the worst!


The ending of Shosty 5 is the biggest cop out. People rave for it. I think it's lazy composition.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Re the Barber violin concerto, he revised it and added the finale, as I understand. The violinist said it was not enough of a showpiece, so he tacked on the finale. My assumption is that it was made up of only the first two movements. If people know otherwise, fill free to correct/fill in what I'm saying. Ironically, with the 'new' finale, the violinist then said it was unplayable! He was proven wrong by another violinist who ended up premiering it.

I actually like that work, the whole work. Without the 'bounce' and 'zing' of the moto perpetuo finale, it would be too dark and kind of depressing. But I know, quite a few people think its kind of 'blah.'

As for this -



powerbooks said:


> Beethoven Symphony No. 3.
> 
> After the revolutionary first, heroic second, and the creative third, it boiled down to a variations on an old theme?
> 
> To be honest, I still like the symphony, but the finale could have been wished to be more groundbreaking.


The history or content of that finale is that it has two main themes, one an English tune, another Hungarian (the second dancy one). These were the countries fighting against Napoleon at the time. I love the finale, again I'm out of step here. It tells the story well, it rounds it off. Kind of a 'to be continued' finale. The war against Napoleon was not yet over for a while. We'd have to wait for_ Wellington's Victory _(the piece, and the historical event itself!) for Mr. Bonaparte to be defeated. Now that is a dud of a piece, I think (yet at the time, _Wellington's Victory _ - the piece - was liked by audiences more than the Symphony #7, composed at the same time!).

As for me, THE big let-down of a finale is that to *Sibelius' Violin Concerto. *It does not address the work before it. The middle slow movement is also a bit 'blah' imo. The first movement is simply brilliant, inventive, amazing, all that. The finale plods along, its basically just filler. The coda, final half minute, offers a glimpse of maybe something interesting. But no, he ends it, and that's that.

Sibelius' VC was another work that was revised, like the Barber VC.


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## JAKE WYB (May 28, 2009)

Sid James said:


> As for me, THE big let-down of a finale is that to *Sibelius' Violin Concerto. *It does not address the work before it. The middle slow movement is also a bit 'blah' imo. The first movement is simply brilliant, inventive, amazing, all that. The finale plods along, its basically just filler. The coda, final half minute, offers a glimpse of maybe something interesting. But no, he ends it, and that's that.
> 
> Sibelius' VC was another work that was revised, like the Barber VC.


Id say exactly that also - the first movement of Sibelius V.C would actually be better on its own without the other two movements - the superficiality and lightness of the finale does actually ruin all the depth and struggling large scale drama brought on by the first movement - it could have been a huge spectacular work exploring a large expanse like the beethoven or elagar violin concerti but it withers away with insipid salon music..


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

Maybe this is heresy to some, but I've never particularly liked the last movements of Sibelius 2 and 5. To me there's something quasi-corny-kitschy about the 'big themes' of those movements that kinda ruins it, which is sad because I otherwise like those symphonies. But I don't want to be too dismissive either, since my inital reaction to them has lead me to not listen to them very carefully.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Norse said:


> Maybe this is heresy to some, but I've never particularly liked the last movements of Sibelius 2 and 5. To me there's something quasi-corny-kitschy about the 'big themes' of those movements that kinda ruins it, which is sad because I otherwise like those symphonies. But I don't want to be too dismissive either, since their my inital reaction to them has lead me to not listen to them very carefully.


I agree with 2. Not because of the "big theme" but I think it gets a little repetitive, especially with all those scales. I like the finale of 5.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I think one has to take into consideration that the finale as such was traditionally the least meaningful part of a piece. Particularly when it appeared in the shape of a rondo at the end of a concerto. In the first movement, the sonata allegro, the composer presented his technical or intellectual prowess. In the second, slow movement, he showed his depth of sentiment and emotion. And in the finale, where there was, in a sense, little left to do, he aimed at firing up the audience and getting them ready to clap their hands off.

During the nineteenth century, the finale gained more weight and significance, thanks to Beethoven's Ninth. In some cases, as in several Bruckner symphonies, the finale became the most important movement of all: the place everything was leading up to, the culmination point of the work.

Generally, though, symphonies and concertos remained focused on the opening sonata allegro and the slow movement. One shouldn't perhaps hold it against certain composers if their works conformed to this traditional formula. When you think of Brahms and the finales to his piano concerto no. 1 and his violin concerto, they're definitely not on par, in terms of intellectual or emotional significance, with the preceeding movements. But they weren't meant to be.

I think bad finales can only really ruin an entire piece of the finale was intended to be the work's most important, most meaningful part. Perhaps that's why Beethoven's Ninth was mentioned here so prominently.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Re the discussion of Sibelius symphonies, I think the 'tenterhooks' finale of #5 is not what I'd call 'killing the piece,' but after a few listens it inevitably becomes cliche. Eg. from tenterhook to not tenterhook as you know exactly what's going to happen. But this is a minor quibble, I think that overall that finale aint half bad to say the least. The finale of the 2nd I like for its optimism, the feeling it gives me is enough, its okay by me, but I don't listen to it too often to become earworm material. That's my trick with things, catchy tunes, like that.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I agree with anyone who says that Shostakovitch #5-4th movement has very boring ending.

In general, bad finals makes you cut the whole thing and you will listen to the favorite parts and ignore the final.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

A few stick out in my memory as less-than-inspired finales:

Barber - String Quartet, Op 11
After a tersely-argued first movement and the famous Adagio, the last movement is almost throw-away, as if Barber had run out of ideas (and patience) and simply couldn't be bothered anymore.





Shostakovich - Symphony No 12
A weak, flabby and banal finale to a symphony which has few virtues anyway. Appallingly bad. Some think that Shostakovich DELIBERATELY wrote a weak symphony to commemorate the 1917 Revolution.

Tchaikovsky - Symphony No 5
Oh dear, oh dear. Tchaikovsky himself saw the shortcomings of this symphony, but the finale is so weighted down with musical waffle and padding that I nearly always stop the recording before the very end - which is just about as trite as you can get.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Two finales impressed me greatly:

Stravinsky: the rite of spring
Bartók: miraculous mandarin suite, the complete ballet's finale is not that brilliant.






Huge!

Martin


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## mensch (Mar 5, 2012)

Erik Satie ruined many finales of Romantic era pieces for me. Every time I hear those grandiose fortissimo codas in many symphonies and sonatas I'm reminded by Satie's "Embryons desséchés" where he parodies some very well-known staples of Romantic era writing and ends both "d'holothurie" and "de podophthalma" with a plethora of serious chords and arpeggios to mark the ending of the piece.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

mensch said:


> Erik Satie ruined many finales of Romantic era pieces for me. Every time I hear those grandiose fortissimo codas in many symphonies and sonatas I'm reminded by Satie's "Embryons desséchés" where he parodies some very well-known staples of Romantic era writing and ends both "d'holothurie" and "de podophthalma" with a plO ethora of serious chords and arpeggios to mark the ending of the piece.


Maybe my ears are not that good. It sounds to me Bach like, and his finale is not awesome at all.

Martin, not a Bach fan


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## mensch (Mar 5, 2012)

Satie quotes Chopin in the second part of the "Embryons desséchés" and possibly Beethoven in the coda. It's not very Baroque in my opinion and the "Cadence obligée" certainly isn't typical of Bach (see the page below).


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

The finale of Schubert's Symphony no. 8.. It would really kill the two perfect movements. Thank god, he didn't composed it!

Beethoven's Symphony no. 7.. The finale, according to Sir Beecham is like ''yaks jumping about''. It's not suited to the first and 2nd movement. Feels like LvB is ''ripe in the madhouse'' like Weber said.

Schubert's String Quintet. Now that's a perfect composition. But some people complained that the fourth movement, with its dance like, Hungarian influences did not live up; to the expansiveness of first movement, the heartbreaking Adagio and the Mahler-like Scherzo and Trio. I myself liked it. Franz could have certainly better, but its perfect on its own right!

The finale of Bruch's Violin concerto. I love it, the first time I've heard it, but it become annoying! Grr.


@Clementine

The Tarantella in Schubert's Death and the Maiden is imho, one of his best. The ''limping'' rhythm is just wonderful.


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## Lokasenna (Jul 1, 2012)

peeyaj said:


> Beethoven's Symphony no. 7.. The finale, according to Sir Beecham is like ''yaks jumping about''. It's not suited to the first and 2nd movement. Feels like LvB is ''ripe in the madhouse'' like Weber said.


Not 'the apotheosis of dance' then, as Wagner had it? I've always rather liked the furious energy of the 4th movement myself, but I can see how it treads a fine line between sense and chaos.

I absolutely agree with you about Schubert's 8th though!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> The finale of Schubert's Symphony no. 8.. It would really kill the two perfect movements. Thank god, he didn't composed it!


Do you mean the third movement that he _did_ compose but is never performed because it sucks to end it on a scherzo?


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Both of Liszt's works on The Divine Comedy have problematic endings.

Firstly the Dante Symphony. As it's known originally Liszt intended to convey paradise in music, but Wagner strongly opposed to this saying that no human could adequately depict the joys of paradise. Unfortunately Liszt had not yet sketched any ideas for the movement and so taking what Wagner said to heart was easy - and he did that. Instead he composed a choral magnificat that while certainly very beautiful and extremely innovative in its use of colour and the whole tone scale...it doesn't seem to conclude the work in a satisfactory way - especially in relation to the work that the music is based on. As it has been mentioned, this move by replacing paradise with the magnificat is probably why the work has never been in the standard repertory.


And then the Dante Sonata. This work has always been difficult for me. The first 10 minutes or so is Liszt at his best and indeed some of the most remarkable piano music of the 19th century...the rest of the piece however is quite problematic and most times I listen to it these days, despite really trying to understand it, I find it rather tedious and facile -despite the powerful last line and some other fine moments.


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

I love every movement of Mahler's _5th Symphony_... except for the final movement. It's the only movement I've heard from Mahler so far that I haven't been able to understand, and even after dozens of listenings, I still think it ruins the entire piece.


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

EarthBoundRules said:


> I love every movement of Mahler's _5th Symphony_... except for the final movement. It's the only movement I've heard from Mahler so far that I haven't been able to understand, and even after dozens of listenings, I still think it ruins the entire piece.


I've seen people having problems with that movement before. Not sure if it's the actual piece or mostly that they think it's an unfitting conclusion to the symphony as a whole, with all it's seriousness. Personally I love it.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I've been listening to *Mahler's 5th *this week. I have read somewhere that the finale is long winded and would have done with a bit of editing. However, I find it optimistic and inspired, in fusing the rustic dance vibes from earlier in the symphony with first a Bachian fugue like passage and at the end that blazing chorale on the brass. The old and new come together, as do the 'high' and 'low.' But I do get the feeling towards the end of_ stop the waffle and get it over and done with_. But I think its pros outweigh its cons, so to speak, I tend to like optimistic endings over pessimistic ones.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Brahms violin concerto.
The first movement is a true wonder in music. 
The second and third sound so commonplace I can't believe Brahms did not have the taste to scrap them and re-compose.
And I would say Mozart's sy 38 - again the first movement is remarkable - second and third movement are fine music - but just don't live up to the first in a way that, say, the finale of the jupiter is the equal of the stunning first movement.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

stomanek said:


> Brahms violin concerto.
> The first movement is a true wonder in music.
> The second and third sound so commonplace I can't believe Brahms did not have the taste to scrap them and re-compose.
> And I would say Mozart's sy 38 - again the first movement is remarkable - second and third movement are fine music - but just don't live up to the first in a way that, say, the finale of the jupiter is the equal of the stunning first movement.


The finale of Mozart's Symphony no. 41 is more stunning than the first movement. For that symphony in particular I would say the order of stunningness would be 4th movement, 2nd movement, 1st movement, 3rd movement.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Do you mean the third movement that he _did_ compose but is never performed because it sucks to end it on a scherzo?


There is a prevailing theory that the Overture in Rosamunde in B minor was the intended finale of Schubert's Unfinished (because it ends in the tonic). Well, that music is not that impressive.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> There is a prevailing theory that the Overture in Rosamunde in B minor was the intended finale of Schubert's Unfinished (because it ends in the tonic). Well, that music is not that impressive.


I haven't actually heard it. I've heard all the completed symphonies though. I like no. 8, but I do seem to prefer no. 3.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I haven't actually heard it. I've heard all the completed symphonies though. I like no. 8, but I do seem to prefer no. 3.


I like No. 5 in B-flat. Very Viennese if I could say so.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

yeah i have to Agree with Sibeliuses Violin concerto, because the first movement is so much better than the final two.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The finale of Mozart's Symphony no. 41 is more stunning than the first movement. For that symphony in particular I would say the order of stunningness would be 4th movement, 2nd movement, 1st movement, 3rd movement.


How could I disagree with that statement - but with No 41 everyone talks about the last movement - justly so - yet I think the first movement deserves nearly as much praise.
About Schubert's 8th - highly unlikely he left it at 2 movements for aesthetic reasons. There is just no, as far as I am aware, precedent for it. He did not know he was in the process of writing an eternal masterpiece and most likely set it aside, intending to complete at a later date. If Beethoven had left his eroica at 2 movements - people would be speculating that he had no idea how to follow 2 such splendid movements and the work seems complete as it is - which in my view would be nonsense as it is in the case of Schubert's 8th.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I haven't actually heard it. I've heard all the completed symphonies though. I like no. 8, but I do seem to prefer no. 3.


Here it is:


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