# Correct Round Two. La Mama Morta. Hernandez and Gheorghiu



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry about the boo boo posting. When you are juggling hundreds of contests I am bound to make some mistakes. Senza Mama and La Mama Morta both have mama in them. You can figure out the rest.
Someone requested Saoia Hernandez so I put her with Angela. PS. After 20 times looking up the spelling I can finally spell Gheorghiu LOL.




Saioa Hernandez, Maddalena Claudio Sgura, Carlo Gerard Cond. Aldo Sisillo Dir. Nicola Berloffa Teatro Comunale Pavarotti di Modena 2019




Andrea Chénier, Act III: La mamma morta · Angela Gheorghiu/Royal Philharmonic Orchestra/Marco Armiliato/Louisa Tuck


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Whilst I preferred the beginning of this Hernandez version to the one you first posted, I'm afraid I didn't like her voice at all. Too vibrant and too much vibrato, and in fact I didn't manage to get through to the end. I thought the voice hard and unpleasant and that she oversang. Admittedly a lot of latter day sopranos tend to oversing this piece, but at least most of those had beautiful voices. I didn't hear anything of beauty here.

Gheorghiu doesn't really have the voice for this aria, but at least she has a basic beauty of tone. Nor does she oversing or ham it up too much. She wouldn't be my ultimate choice but she easily wins this round.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Hernandez doesn't sound at her best here, her legato isn't the best, her vibrato natural but too prominent for my taste and a lack of light and shade. I do like Hernandez though, although recently less and less as she sounds increasingly overspent, and I am grateful to hear a modern soprano with squillo and a chest voice that's well formed. 

Gheorghiu is maybe more pleasant to listen to but she doesn't have the voice for this music and I found myself thinking Hernandez would be far more exciting to hear in theatre. Gheorghiu makes this music sound a little plasticky to me, whereas Hernandez open but unrefined sound is a little more to my liking. Neither are great favourites here.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> Hernandez doesn't sound at her best here, her legato isn't the best, her vibrato natural but too prominent for my taste and a lack of light and shade. I do like Hernandez though, although recently less and less as she sounds increasingly overspent, and I am grateful to hear a modern soprano with squillo and a chest voice that's well formed.
> 
> Gheorghiu is maybe more pleasant to listen to but she doesn't have the voice for this music and I found myself thinking Hernandez would be far more exciting to hear in theatre. Gheorghiu makes this music sound a little plasticky to me, whereas Hernandez open but unrefined sound is a little more to my liking. Neither are great favourites here.


I actually agree with what you say about Gheorghiu in this aria, but she got my vote because I found her actual voice more listenable. I thought the sounds Hernandez was making quite ugly (and this from someone who is more tolerant than most of Callas's late career voice).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Incidentally there are two m's in _mamma_.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I actually agree with what you say about Gheorghiu in this aria, but she got my vote because I found her actual voice more listenable. I thought the sounds Hernandez was making quite ugly (and this from someone who is more tolerant than most of Callas's late career voice).


Hernandez has a good voice but she sounds like she needs to relax a little more when she sings. Her voice can make a beautiful sound on one note and then she can garble her way to the next one. It's also a voice that I'm sure would sound better but theatre and this is not her best. I find her much more effective here, except from at the high 'piano' A and the following turn.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I am not one of those who require a big powerful voice to please me. I like Hernandez and believe she is one fine singer with plenty of power and will go places. 
However, it's what's inside that counts much more for me, and Gheorghiu has that appealing and slightly vulnerable tremor in her throat, coupled with an aria that envelops one with feeling.
And I really don't give a rat's behind what some say about her trying to copy Callas. Who cares? Whatever she is doing, it works! I'd know her sound anywhere -- and it isn't Callas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> Hernandez has a good voice but she sounds like she needs to relax a little more when she sings. Her voice can make a beautiful sound on one note and then she can garble her way to the next one. It's also a voice that I'm sure would sound better but theatre and this is not her best. I find her much more effective here, except from at the high 'piano' A and the following turn.


I agree she sounds much better here, but I still don't much like the sound at the top. Even in 1959 Callas had less vibrato and better control of dynamics.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I actually agree with what you say about Gheorghiu in this aria, but she got my vote because I found her actual voice more listenable. I thought the sounds Hernandez was making quite ugly (and this from someone who is more tolerant than most of Callas's late career voice).


I don't know what Hernandez sounds like elsewhere but let's just say putting her in was a favor to someone else. I am not at all familiar with her.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Hernandez has the right weight of voice for this music, but somehow manages to screw up by not controlling the vibrato or the emission of her voice - she does the same in a concert performance so I imagine it’s not on purpose. The voice is uneven and inelegant and I can’t vote for her.

Gheorghiu’s voice is well controlled and sounds better than Hernandez’s but she is over-parted; I don’t like her “interpretation,” and she sounds stressed towards the end.

I have several recordings of *Andrea Chenier *but only because Callas and Corelli sang the wretched opera.

No vote.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I was expecting to think Hernandez would sound terrible from the comments, but I was pleasantly surprised. Apart from the already mentioned wide-ish vibrato, she sounds fine to my ears. She gets my vote, but Gheorghiu is a little better than usual.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Hernandez has the right weight of voice for this music, but somehow manages to screw up by not controlling the vibrato or the emission of her voice - she does the same in a concert performance so I imagine it’s not on purpose. The voice is uneven and inelegant and I can’t vote for her.
> 
> Gheorghiu’s voice is well controlled and sounds better than Hernandez’s but she is over-parted; I don’t like her “interpretation,” and she sounds stressed towards the end.
> 
> ...


Gheorghiu normally performs much better than this but frankly it is hard to find contemporary singers who have good recordings of this. You will like my next candidates.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Hernandez has the right weight of voice for this music, but somehow manages to screw up by not controlling the vibrato or the emission of her voice - she does the same in a concert performance so I imagine it’s not on purpose. The voice is uneven and inelegant and I can’t vote for her.
> 
> Gheorghiu’s voice is well controlled and sounds better than Hernandez’s but she is over-parted; I don’t like her “interpretation,” and she sounds stressed towards the end.
> 
> ...


I am going to cut down on trying to include contemporary singers so often except for Gheorghiu who usually does really well in the right material. Recent singers mostly don't do well with us in these contests. I think as some of you said, this was not material well suited to Gheorghiu who most of you enjoy.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

This is difficult to judge independently, because I know that super critical @Op.123 considers Saioa Hernandez the lesser evil among contemporary singers. So I naturally think of why she might be better. The beginning of the aria and the chest voice shows a real great contrast, which I would have noticed also without this bias. In those dark parts of the aria, Hernandez is really impressive, maybe captivated me even more than the singers of good ole times. However, as the aria progresses, I notice something unpleasant in the higher notes, which I do not have the name for. There I prefer Gheorghiu, the voice is thinner but does not do that thing. Was Hernandez in her prime here ? I will vote for her due to that spectacular beginning.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

OK, "the thing" is apparently vibrato.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> OK, "the thing" is apparently vibrato.


You are juggling two languages so you get a pass.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are juggling two languages so you get a pass.


It would be a vibrato in Slovak as well. I just don't know the operatic jargon. Or the vocal mechanics how the unpleasant thingy is created. I hoped to learn this stuff through the contests, so everything works as planned


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> It would be a vibrato in Slovak as well. I just don't know the operatic jargon. Or the vocal mechanics how the unpleasant thingy is created. I hoped to learn this stuff through the contests, so everything works as planned


I have had to learn jargon as well. Some took a while. Watch that What is Bel Canto video with Sutherland and Horne that I sent you. You learn lots of terms. there and also here.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> This is difficult to judge independently, because I know that super critical @Op.123 considers Saioa Hernandez the lesser evil among contemporary singers. So I naturally think of why she might be better. The beginning of the aria and the chest voice shows a real great contrast, which I would have noticed also without this bias. In those dark parts of the aria, Hernandez is really impressive, maybe captivated me even more than the singers of good ole times. However, as the aria progresses, I notice something unpleasant in the higher notes, which I do not have the name for. There I prefer Gheorghiu, the voice is thinner but does not do that thing. Was Hernandez in her prime here ? I will vote for her due to that spectacular beginning.


I would say this video represents her at her best and in her prime. The voice is strong and firm, the vibrato more controlled, and the turn more freely executed at 'volavan l'ore' than in the video I posted above. Unfortunately since then the voice has declined, become less easy and consequently less expressive. Here I think she is a very fine spinto in comparison to the rest of those singing this rep nowadays.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> I would say this video represents her at her best and in her prime. The voice is strong and firm, the vibrato more controlled, and the turn more freely executed at 'volavan l'ore' than in the video I posted above. Unfortunately since then the voice has declined, become less easy and consequently less expressive. Here I think she is a very fine spinto in comparison to the rest of those singing this rep nowadays.


Indeed, this is a very beautiful and smooth Gioconda. Says a non expert. But somehow that chest voice grabbed me more in her Maddalena, even though the second half of the aria is ruined. I am glad I have heard it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't know how to say it gently. I find the sound Hernandez makes thoroughly repugnant: brassy, pushy, vibrato-ridden, a noisy voice with no sweetness or pathos, employed without nuance, unable to move me even slightly. I'll concede it has volume, bite, and chest tones, so I guess she's in the right repertoire. Has she done Lady Macbeth, or considered Ortrud? They don't have to sound nice, alhough it's always useful to have the option.

Gheorghiu is the opposite of Hernandez; soft and pretty, with nuances slathered on like too much pancake. Those are not entirely virtues in this music, and she didn't really touch me either, but at least I wasn't tempted to shut her down. I'll just forget this and think about her many lovely performances in suitable repertoire. I had to do the same regarding Patricia Racette's disastrous singing of Maddalena some years ago. We are certainly hard up for singers who can make this opera - and others of its period - worth doing.

Gheorghiu, because she wasn't horrible.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I don't know how to say it gently. I find the sound Hernandez makes thoroughly repugnant: brassy, pushy, vibrato-ridden, a noisy voice with no sweetness or pathos, employed without nuance, unable to move me even slightly. I'll concede it has volume, bite, and chest tones, so I guess she's in the right repertoire. Has she done Lady Macbeth, or considered Ortrud? They don't have to sound nice, alhough it's always useful to have the option.
> 
> Gheorghiu is the opposite of Hernandez; soft and pretty, with nuances slathered on like too much pancake. Those are not entirely virtues in this music, and she didn't really touch me either, but at least I wasn't tempted to shut her down. I'll just forget this and think about her many lovely performanes in suitable repertoire. I had to do the same regarding Patricia Racette's disastrous singing of Maddalena some years ago. We are certainly hard up for singers who can make this opera - and others of its period - worth doing.
> 
> Gheorghiu, because she wasn't horrible.


"They don't always have to sound nice, although t's always useful to have that option". I forgot to tell Jesus today how thankful I am for your sarcastic wit😜That is the advantage of having a few awful entries in the contest... to give you guys a chance to bitch with artistry!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

After trudging through this verismo muck I hied me over to the new "Care selve" match between Norena and Quartararo. What blessed relief! If you know what's good for you you'll do likewise.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I don't know how to say it gently. I find the sound Hernandez makes thoroughly repugnant: brassy, pushy, vibrato-ridden, a noisy voice with no sweetness or pathos, employed without nuance, unable to move me even slightly. I'll concede it has volume, bite, and chest tones, so I guess she's in the right repertoire. Has she done Lady Macbeth, or considered Ortrud? They don't have to sound nice, alhough it's always useful to have the option.
> 
> Gheorghiu is the opposite of Hernandez; soft and pretty, with nuances slathered on like too much pancake. Those are not entirely virtues in this music, and she didn't really touch me either, but at least I wasn't tempted to shut her down. I'll just forget this and think about her many lovely performanes in suitable repertoire. I had to do the same regarding Patricia Racette's disastrous singing of Maddalena some years ago. We are certainly hard up for singers who can make this opera - and others of its period - worth doing.
> 
> Gheorghiu, because she wasn't horrible.


I was a bit kinder but I agree 100%. I actually couldn’t bear to listen to Hernandez. And to think people go on about Callas having an ugly voice!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I was a bit kinder but I agree 100%. I actually couldn’t bear to listen to a Hernandez. And to think people go on about Callas having an ugly voice!


Whether one likes her vocal timbre or not, Callas had a unique and fascinating voice capable of a wide range of color and nuance, and she played on it with extraordinary skill and artistic intelligence. None of that seems to be true of Hernandez as heard here.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I know what I liked so much about Hernandez. The recitative, saying that she is fine having sex with the baritone if that helps. It is not a regular part of the recital recordings. The aria usually starts with La mamma morta. Consequently, I am not used to this aria beginning so beautifully and darkly. But I also have a complete opera on the old tape somewhere, and I am pretty sure that singer didn't use the potential of this recitative, whoever it was.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Hernandez is a singer I would like to see in the big houses rather than the usual Netremelos and 'Covent Garden Bland Soprano' types.

That said, whilst the voice seems big and there's some good technique there somewhere, it's all too much and oversung.

Gheorghiu (the imitation Callas' imitation Callas) is going to sweep this. Proof that if you can't beat 'em, copy 'em.

Gheorghiu, quite simply because I still have my hearing afterwards!

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Can't believe these two are level pegging. I mean Gheorghiu may not be great but at least I don't have to cover my ears.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Can't believe these two are level pegging. I mean Gheorghiu may not be great but at least I don't have to cover my ears.


Quite.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Quite.


What they said. 

(And I have heard better from Hernandez, but only on recordings, so would like to hear her live.)

N.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> What they said.
> 
> (And I have heard better from Hernandez, but only on recordings, so would like to hear her live.)
> 
> N.


Am I imagining it, or is the vibrato less horrible in her later recording ? But also, the chest voice beginning of the aria is less georgeous.)





My experience so far is, that it gets worse with age, not better. Our singers shine, take flight to the world opera houses, and when they get older, they return to the theater of Bratislava, bleating like goats.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

[QUOTE="BBSV

My experience so far is, that it gets worse with age, not better. Our singers shine, take flight to the world opera houses, and when they get older, they return to the theater of Bratislava, bleating like goats.
[/QUOTE]
It is a general rule, I suppose. Some of them keep on "pleasing" their native theaters for decades. But there is a high league, which stays in world opera houses, despite goat quality of singing.


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