# Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt15



## Merl

"Oh god, here he goes again", you may be saying! But wait! This set of 5 reviews are a little more relevant than my usual LvB cycle reviews as it's 5 more recent / new / remastered cycles this time. As usual all opinions are subjective. I found all of these fascinating in one way or another. Have your say or feel free to ask any questions in the thread.

My ratings are as follows:

C Satisfactory cycle. Ok, but nothing to shout about
B- Good cycle but flawed (see decriptions in thread).
B Good standard. A decent library set or better.
B+ Very good set. Some very impressive performances. Well worth investing in.
A- Excellent set just missing a little something to take it to the top of the pile but all performances very good or better.
A* Wow! Currently the cream of the crop out there in LvB Cycleland. Buy, borrow or listen, now!

*BLOMSTEDT / DRESDEN*









The Blomstedt / Dresden Beethoven cycle was one of my first and cheapest LvB cycle acquisitions and has been available in many different bargain boxes over the years (most famously in the Brilliant Classics box) but don't let that fool you into thinking this is just a throwaway bargain set. Berlin Classics has finally issued these recordings themselves with much improved packaging (thankfully) and a remastering job. For those that have never heard this set, then this cycle is the epitome of everything that is good in 'old-school Beethoven'. Although it's much broader than many other sets (disproving the idiotic idea from some that I only like fast Beethoven), and omits exposition repeats (no problems there for me), these very well recorded readings, which were made between 1975 and 1980 in Dresden's St. Luke's church, sound better than ever thanks to an excellent remastering job. What you also get with Blomstedt and the tremendous 70's Dresden Staatskappelle is oodles of forward momentum so these accounts never seem to stall. I was worried they'd lose the oomph of this set by tampering with it but thankfully they've kept and clarified the always superb bottom end of these recordings whilst sharpening the focus in the mid-range and achieving better separation between instruments. The results are joyous and sound better than ever. For me this has always been a class set but now it sounds even more impressive. There simply isn't a weak performance in the lot and while most symphonies might not make your first choice (although the 7th and 9th are terrific) as a whole this cycle is one of the very best. It may not be for everyone but if you admire great, mid-paced, big-boned Beethoven played by a fantastic orchestra, led by a terrific conductor and in terrific analogue sound then this could be the set for you. Get it.

_Grade A*_

*STEINBERG / PITTSBURGH*









Oh how I remember some of my crusty of vinyls of this one on Command Classics. I finally got the set years back on CD thanks to a re-issue but there was a problem. The Command Classics CDs were dubious (to put it mildly as Command Classics had gone bump) and the transfers had been done from mint copies of the LP to CD and not from the original master tapes. From there there was a further release on Highdeftapetranfers but that still din't put these right. I put up with this for years but all my copies were always unsatisfactory (you could hear the needle at the start of some recordings on the CDS and they were bright and scrappy). Thankfully DG must have got hold of the original master tapes somehow and finally we've got this glorious addition to the catalogue back. Another re-release but like Blomstedt it's mighty welcome. Steinberg never held back in Beethoven. His vision is like his mentor, Toscanini, on the brisk side and he likes it big-band but he was a master of dynamics (check his Holst Planets if you don't believe me). What's good here? Well practically everything and Steinberg's skillful articulation and the Pittsburgher's marvellous playing (those woodwinds are fantastic are times) really makes these performances a joy. Best of the set? Well that Eroica is top class, the 4th is really well played, the 6th is possibly one of the best in the catalogue and the 7th is given an effervescent performance too with a great finale. You also get a rare outing of Mahler's orchestration of the 9th (Steinberg always used this live, apparently) so plenty of heft in there. Don't get me wrong, the sound still isn't totally perfect, and I'm knocking half a mark off for the inaudible timpani in the 5th, which is the least convincing performance on here but it's the best we can get from these recordings. Please don't think it's badly reorded either as it was recorded by some of the team who made the Mercury Living Prescence recordings so you should know what to expect but credit to DG for transferring these from the old Universal-owned 35mm film and letting us enjoy this terrific set again. Recommended enthusiastically

_(*Knorf will no doubt have a go at me for not giving it an A*)_

_Grade A-_

*HISAISHI / NAGANO CHAMBER ORCHESTRA*









No idea who Joe Hisaishi is? Well he's a Japanese composer and musical director known for his film scores (the Japanese equivalent of Jon Williams) but he's also a conductor of other new music too, but rarely the warhorses, so this was a very surprising set in many ways. I know little of Hisaishi's motivation for making these out-of-character recordings. This fairly new (2019) set kinda came out of leftfield for me and it's expensive as hell, btw, so beware (of course it is - it's on Exton)! I can tell you that the cycle was recorded with the Nagano Chamber Orchestra so don't expect big-band Beethoven. As to the music well I'm still not sure. Interpretively it's mainly a very brisk set but there are times (like in the very laid back and boring 6th) where Hisaishi strangely slows things right down (certainly in comparison to the rest of the set). The 1st two symphonies are handled well and played with slightly more spirit but in slightly too Haydn-esque fashion for me. Probably the quickest performances are of 4, 7, 8 and 9 and they're largely the better ones but not because of tempi choices. When this set falls down it's that word that comes into my head - 'spirit'. They are also littered with small and sometimes needless interpretive touches, some of which come off and some that just don't sit well. It's a confusing and occasionally very enjoyable cycle. At times (eg in the 7ths scherzo and first movement of the 5th) H & Co really nail it but at other times (the Eroica's funeral march) I'm just not getting the vision. The 9th has such paradoxes. The first movement is a little undernourished (often the case in chamber 9ths for me), the 2nd movement is really well-judged, played and bouyant, the 3rd movement a little underplayed and tentative and then an absolutely rabble-rousing finale bolstered by a really well-drilled and vocal choir but let down a little by the baritone, who sounds a little shaky. No, I really cannot make my mind up about this one at the moment. So for now it gets a cautious 'good'. I may have to try this again at a later date but in such auspicious company as Blomstedt and Steinberg I think any chamber performance was going to suffer, tbh. Naturally the sound (like most of Exton's releases) is superb. One for timpani lovers like myself.

_Grade B (but this could well change at a later date)_

*ROSBAUD / SWR SO*









After the new it's in with the old and a 'new' set of remastered recordings from the SWF archives conducted by Hans Rosbaud. Ignore the blurb on the news release that accompanied these recordings saying that there is no 8th symphony (in fact there are 2 versions) but it is not a complete cycle as the 4th and 9th are both missing, sadly. Recordings are from WDR Radio Broadcasts and the symphony recordings date from 1956-1962 (some of the other fillers from this set were recorded earlier). Unlike my previous review of Hisaishi, Rosbaud's readings are much more positive. Rosbaud's LvB is no-nonsense, intense, well-gauged and thoroughly compelling. Firmly in the 'traditional' 20th century manner of performance (expect similar speeds to Blomstedt) Rosbaud convinces at every turn. The sound is not of refinement but of an orchestra with real personality and combined with Rosbaud's rugged approach and excellent use of dynamics this makes for some particularly enjoyable moments, especially a tough 3rd and gritty and muscular 5th. I'd have classed the 7th in there too but the performance for me gets bogged down in the presto. If you know Rosbaud's music-making then you will know what to expect and there is plenty to admire here, tbh. Thankfully, there's little pulling of tempi and Rosbaud tends to build a head of stem and then drive the music forward propulsively (no hanging around on notes for 10 minutes for dramatic effect). The sense of forward momentum is usually relentless with Rosbaud keeping a solid line through each movement. There are a few caveats. Obviously soundwise it's not state of the art stuff, these are old recordings, but massive credit to the SWR engineers who've remastered these to a sensational standard with all things considered and without any of those horrid wiry, shrill violins. Yes, there's a few moments of orchestral congestion, some dubious brass and odd bits of ragged ensemble (these were live broadcasts after all - check out some cracked horns in the presto of the 7th and a few intonation issues) but overall this is just impressive Beethoven played by a committed orchestra and conductor. As regards the two versions of the 8th the earlier one (1956) is more invigorating but bear in mind the 2nd was recorded just before his death in 1962, when apparently ill-health meant he hardly had the energy to raise his baton. Another winner.

_Grade B+_

*BERNARD / PARK AVENUE CHAMBER *









Who? Who? Now you're just being obscure, Merl! This was a new one to me too. The Park Avenue Chamber Orchestra are a amateur / semi-pro (depending on what you read) orchestra from New York who have garnered some very enthusiastic reviews for their live concerts and tbh I'm not surprised. If you come to these Spotify recordings (they also had a limited CD release) expecting playing of the standard of the VPO then you'll be sadly disappointed as there are quite a few flubs here and there and occasional dubious ensemble. However, looking past that, what you get is very enthusiastically played Beethoven and excellent line from the conductor. Tempi are usually brisk (especially the 9th) but a few are fairly moderately paced too (4th, 6th). There's no actual poor performance here and you've got to admire the skill of these players, who mainly hold down other day jobs. It's committed, fun and largely enjoyable. Yes it's not all wonderful but I enjoyed a particularly polished and spirited 8th, a lively chorus made up of 3 amateur singing groups in the 9th (although there's dodgy diction from the soloists in the 9th too), a quite charming 6th and a 'not hanging around', urgent but very ragged 5th. What really holds this back from getting a better grade is the recording. Recorded rather dryly there's no space around the orchestra. Horns can sound blary in the terrible acoustic and it's wholly not too pleasant soundstage that almost compartmentalises each section of the orchestra. It really doesn't do the cycle any favours and is such a shame. Anyway, have a listen if you have a Spotify or Deezer account. All performances should be there. Pleasantly surprising for amateurs and it could have been even better.

_Grade C_

As usual feel free to add your own thoughts.

Previous reviews:

Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt14
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycles Pt13
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt12
Merl's Beethoven Syphony Cycle Reviews Pt11
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt10
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt9
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt8
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt7
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt6
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt5
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt4
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt3
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Review Pt2
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt1


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## Animal the Drummer

I collected a number of the Steinberg LPs in their later incarnation on the Music for Pleasure label and enjoyed them all, the 7th a special favourite. Great to see them properly back.


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## rwparker68

I may have to pick up the Steinberg set, especially if they were produced from the original masters. Somehow I was under the impression that ABC Records destroyed the original 35mm film masters when they bought Command in the early 70s.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Blomstedt/Dresden just may be a desert island Beethoven stereo set for me. I’m a sucker for that distinctive Dresden sound - even the timpani sound different! - and I find Blomstedt’s interpretations to be right on the money while still providing insight and freshness.


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## Merl

rwparker68 said:


> I may have to pick up the Steinberg set, especially if they were produced from the original masters. Somehow I was under the impression that ABC Records destroyed the original 35mm film masters when they bought Command in the early 70s.


To my knowledge the Everest classical catalogue comprising all the original 35mm film masters and half inch magnetic tapes are currently archived under controlled conditions in the Hamburg vaults of Countdown Media/BMG Music who purchased the copyright from Grammercy in the 1990s. Prior to that the copyright was owned by Omega / Vanguard. How DG have got access to these I dont know.

Edit: DG distributed the Command Label Recordings of both Steinberg's Brahms and Beethoven symphony cycles in Europe from April 1967. As Command went bump I bet DG kept the distribution rights.Does that also mean a remaster for the Steinberg Brahms cycle? Hope so.


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## Knorf

I think A- is fair for the Steinberg... 

It's really an excellent set I'm glad to have, especially for 3, 4, and 6-8. To be fair I haven't listened to 9, yet.


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## Enthusiast

Another invaluable issue in this series, Merl. But going back to more older recordings seems to leave a great number of sets that will now be included within the range of your reviews? Can we now expect reviews of Klemperer, Harnoncourt, Toscanini ... from you?


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## Merl

Enthusiast said:


> Another invaluable issue in this series, Merl. But going back to more older recordings seems to leave a great number of sets that will now be included within the range of your reviews? Can we now expect reviews of Klemperer, Harnoncourt, Toscanini ... from you?


Jeez, Enthusiast, if I do they'll have to be shorter but I'd like to revisit those big sets. The reason I haven't is cos Granate covered them but I didn't often agree with him (did I Granate?). I have been thinking bout it though. Just wish you could put more than 5 pics in a post though. Any suggestions? If I could edit a few of those I've already reviewed I would possibly change a few grades for sets I've reviewed in the past. I was too hard on Mackerras and Dohnanyi, for example. They'd all be A- if I reviewed them now, especially Dohnanyi.


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## Bigbang

I have MCA label with Beethoven 7th/Steinberg. Is this the same version of the symphony on DG?


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## Granate

No you didn't Merl!

In fact I have also listened to the Remastered Beethoven cycle of Blomstedt/Dresden and it sounds duller than ever to me. I even prefer the old remaster in the white box. From the music, I don't like the conducting, like it lacks excitement to me. However, I found nice efforts in 4,5 and 6. That's what my quarantine notes say.

That I have reviewed them doesn't mean you shouldn't adress them. In fact. I've also listened to one of my favourite Beethoven cycles and one I never got on CD: the Günter Wand in Hamburg. I was strikingly bored, except the expansive and clear 7th. 

I made really positive reviews on other sets. I just never remebered to publish them. Also, take into account that I have a different system from the one I made my Beethoven challenge 2 years ago. The SQ changes dramatically. And the Konwitschny cycle doesn't work as well as for example the new Nelsons Wiener Philharmoniker does.


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## Merl

Granate said:


> No you didn't Merl!
> 
> In fact I have also listened to the Remastered Beethoven cycle of Blomstedt/Dresden and it sounds duller than ever to me. I even prefer the old remaster in the white box. From the music, I don't like the conducting, like it lacks excitement to me. However, I found nice efforts in 4,5 and 6. That's what my quarantine notes say.
> 
> That I have reviewed them doesn't mean you shouldn't adress them. In fact. I've also listened to one of my favourite Beethoven cycles and one I never got on CD: the Günter Wand in Hamburg. I was strikingly bored, except the expansive and clear 7th.
> 
> I made really positive reviews on other sets. I just never remebered to publish them. Also, take into account that I have a different system from the one I made my Beethoven challenge 2 years ago. The SQ changes dramatically. And the Konwitschny cycle doesn't work as well as for example the new Nelsons Wiener Philharmoniker does.


So should I review the sets you did Granate? How do you feel about that? I respect your opinions whether I agreed or not.


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## D Smith

Thanks Merl. I largely agree with you on the Steinberg though I've not heard the new remaster. I've assembled a set from various sources and the only slight disappointment for me as I recall was the Ninth but the Eroica, 4, 6,and 7th are top notch. I'll have to save up my pennies I guess to get the new set in good sound.


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## Merl

D Smith said:


> Thanks Merl. I largely agree with you on the Steinberg though I've not heard the new remaster. I've assembled a set from various sources and the only slight disappointment for me as I recall was the Ninth but the Eroica, 4, 6,and 7th are top notch. I'll have to save up my pennies I guess to get the new set in good sound.


Funnily enough Knorf doesn't like the 9th much either. The Mahler orchestration isn't for everyone. There's some odd touches and Steinberg doesn't seem as committed in the Ninth as elsewhere.


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## Knorf

Here are my thoughts on the Steinberg Beethoven cycle, now that I've listened to all of them. As you might gather, Merl and I have been discussing these! And we agree on many points, but I'd thought I'd offer my own.

In general, the woodwind playing is some of the best you'll hear anywhere, and so are the strings. The brass are mostly good, but sometimes are a bit distractingly behind in fast music, and sometimes are the source of distressing pitch issues. The timpani are recessed in general, sometimes far too much as in 5, sometimes ok, but rarely where I'd prefer in terms of prominence.

Nos. 1 & 2. These are very good, but somehow don't quite jump up into the ideal charm and punch that the best recordings do. Not bad, just not exemplary.

Nos. 3 & 4. These are outstanding in every way, recommended with no reservations, except for some pitch problems at the beginning of no. 4 in the woodwinds. The Marcia funebre of 3 is especially good. 

No. 5. This one is problematic, for me. Some good ideas, some poor ideas, but it never quite coheres. I also am allergic to recordings that rescore the recapitulation of the first movement at the second thematic area, as this does (and as many sadly do pre-Kleiber.) Steinberg is pretty far from the best out there in my opinion.

No. 6-8. These are all sublime, with enchanting woodwind playing and tremendously good strings, especially in the finales of 7 and 8. I think I've never heard the second and third movements of 8 done better. I'd say the set is worth it for these alone, even without the very good 3 & 4.

No. 9. I will probably never revisit this. One, the Mahler edition is totally unnecessary. It's absurd to think this symphony needs to be rescored, and I think many of Mahler's retouches are ghastly. Trombones and piccolo in the first movement? Tuba?! E-FLAT CLARINET!?! It becomes pure WTF for me. Also many woodwind solos become tutti, again totally unnecessarily, because they are perfectly audible as solos. And so I couldn't enjoy what was good about the interpretation, because I was constantly listening for, and being distracted by, what was changed. I could go into more detail, but actually I don't think it's a competitive performance to begin with. It's much sloppier than the rest of the cycle, for some reason, with lots of ensemble problems, especially in the second and last movements. There are pitch problems in the third movement, and the vocal contributions are nothing to write home about. In the end, it's disappointing compared how VERY good 6-8 were.

In the end, I'd say A- is fair overall, without the caveat about the Mahler edition for No. 9, which I don't need to hear ever again.


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> In the end, I'd say A- is fair overall, without the caveat about the Mahler edition for No. 9, which I don't need to hear ever again.


In reality, it doesn't really matter - I can't remember that last time I listened to a 9th that wasn't Klemperer, Furtwangler, Fricsay, or Schmidt-Isserstedt. I listen to all of the other symphonies with a much wider variety of conductors.

Looking forward to receiving my copy of the Steinberg, perhaps today.


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## Heck148

Merl said:


> Edit: DG distributed the Command Label Recordings of both Steinberg's Brahms and Beethoven symphony cycles in Europe from April 1967. As Command went bump I bet DG kept the distribution rights.Does that also mean a remaster for the Steinberg Brahms cycle? Hope so.


I always liked that Steinberg/PittsSO Beethoven 5 on Command LP....I remember enjoying that he took the repeat in the finale, which very few do...it's very effective, and Steinberg sold it very well...is the DG release the same performances that were on Command LP??


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## Merl

Heck148 said:


> I always liked that Steinberg/PittsSO Beethoven 5 on Command LP....I remember enjoying that he took the repeat in the finale, which very few do...it's very effective, and Steinberg sold it very well...is the DG release the same performances that were on Command LP??


Yes, Heck. DG still have the distribution rights, I believe. The question I've been trying to get to the bottom of is who remastered them. The box is not very enlightening with info, according to Knorf. They've definitely been remastered though. The Command Classics LPs and CD releases were rough as old boots. These sound far better but DG don't own the original 35mm film it was recorded on. Kudos to whoever did the remaster as this is the best these recordings have ever sounded and I've had them in every format.


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## VitellioScarpia

wkasimer said:


> In reality, it doesn't really matter - I can't remember that last time I listened to a 9th that wasn't Klemperer, Furtwangler, Fricsay, or Schmidt-Isserstedt. I listen to all of the other symphonies with a much wider variety of conductors.
> 
> Looking forward to receiving my copy of the Steinberg, perhaps today.


Let us know what you think when you get the set.


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## Knorf

Merl said:


> Yes, Heck. DG still have the distribution rights, I believe. The question I've been trying to get to the bottom of is who remastered them. The box is not very enlightening with info, according to Knorf. They've definitely been remastered though.


As far as I can tell, it was done in-house, and I don't know how these would sound so good without access to the 35mm masters, which the program and marketing notes make a big deal about. But yeah the production notes on the actual box are woefully lacking. The recordings do sound excellent, I agree, except for the recessed timpani.


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## CnC Bartok

I'm confused! There are recordings by Steinberg of Symphonies 3,5,6,7,8 in the EMI Icon box, recorded in 1955,54,52,57,54 respectively. I assume these are not the same as DGG have released now?


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> I'm confused! There are recordings by Steinberg of Symphonies 3,5,6,7,8 in the EMI Icon box, recorded in 1955,54,52,57,54 respectively. I assume these are not the same as DGG have released now?


You assume correctly. From 1952-59, all the Pittsburgh recordings were made for Capitol Records and that's where the EMI Icon Box recordings come from (are they all mono or are there some stereo ones in there too?) . From 1960, Steinberg and the orchestra recorded a full set of new LVB symphonies for the Everest label, onto 35mm magnetic film. Those are the ones that ended up on the Command label and eventually in this DG cycle. These recordings were all from the 60s and were made at the the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Hall, Pittsburgh (correct me if I'm wrong, Knorf, I don't have the exact dates in front of me) and not at the Syria Mosque venue used for the 50s recordings for Capitol.


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## CnC Bartok

Indeed, these five Symphonies were all recorded in the Syria Mosque. Reading the Wikipedia article on it, it's a tragedy it's no longer there, sounds a bit philistine the whole story...

I might well invest in those DGG recordings too. These are very good, and I cannot honestly recall which are stereo are which are mono, the quality is very consistent throughout. Grotesquely under-rated conductor.

Ordered!!! Due on Saturday.


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> Indeed, these five Symphonies were all recorded in the Syria Mosque. Reading the Wikipedia article on it, it's a tragedy it's no longer there, sounds a bit philistine the whole story...


I ve just been reading about the Syria Mosque. Sounds like (and looks like) it was a fascinating venue. I love some of the stories behind these old concert halls.


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## Bigbang

Merl said:


> Yes, Heck. DG still have the distribution rights, I believe. The question I've been trying to get to the bottom of is who remastered them. The box is not very enlightening with info, according to Knorf. They've definitely been remastered though. The Command Classics LPs and CD releases were rough as old boots. These sound far better but DG don't own the original 35mm film it was recorded on. Kudos to whoever did the remaster as this is the best these recordings have ever sounded and I've had them in every format.


My MCA/Command classics list Doug Schwartz (remastering engineer) way back in 1988, using the sony pcm 1630 digital processor. I see no evidence DG upgraded the remastering, would they not state this clearly? Unless so I am thinking it is another repackage trick to sell the cycle under new label. I only own the 7th/Leonore3 cd but assume others on the label are same.

When I first listened to the 7th, I was not terribly impressed but the Leonore 3 was tops with good trumpet placement. I dug it out and listen again to the 7th. Hmm...am I being influenced by others who praise the cycle? Now I am thinking it is a better 7 than before.....


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## DarkAngel

> *ROSBAUD / SWR SO
> 
> 
> 
> After the new it's in with the old and a 'new' set of remastered recordings from the SWF archives conducted by Hans Rosbaud. Ignore the blurb on the news release that accompanied these recordings saying that there is no 8th symphony (in fact there are 2 versions) but it is not a complete cycle as the 4th and 9th are both missing, sadly. Recordings are from WDR Radio Broadcasts and the symphony recordings date from 1956-1962 (some of the other fillers from this set were recorded earlier). Unlike my previous review of Hisaishi, Rosbaud's readings are much more positive. Rosbaud's LvB is no-nonsense, intense, well-gauged and thoroughly compelling. Firmly in the 'traditional' 20th century manner of performance (expect similar speeds to Blomstedt) Rosbaud convinces at every turn. The sound is not of refinement but of an orchestra with real personality and combined with Rosbaud's rugged approach and excellent use of dynamics this makes for some particularly enjoyable moments, especially a tough 3rd and gritty and muscular 5th. I'd have classed the 7th in there too but the performance for me gets bogged down in the presto. If you know Rosbaud's music-making then you will know what to expect and there is plenty to admire here, tbh. Thankfully, there's little pulling of tempi and Rosbaud tends to build a head of stem and then drive the music forward propulsively (no hanging around on notes for 10 minutes for dramatic effect). The sense of forward momentum is usually relentless with Rosbaud keeping a solid line through each movement. There are a few caveats. Obviously soundwise it's not state of the art stuff, these are old recordings, but massive credit to the SWR engineers who've remastered these to a sensational standard with all things considered and without any of those horrid wiry, shrill violins. Yes, there's a few moments of orchestral congestion, some dubious brass and odd bits of ragged ensemble (these were live broadcasts after all - check out some cracked horns in the presto of the 7th and a few intonation issues) but overall this is just impressive Beethoven played by a committed orchestra and conductor. As regards the two versions of the 8th the earlier one (1956) is more invigorating but bear in mind the 2nd was recorded just before his death in 1962, when apparently ill-health meant he hardly had the energy to raise his baton. Another winner.
> 
> Grade B+
> *


The Rosebaud reissues have been a continued source of pleasant surprises for a conductor mostly under the radar, the Bruckner set is really great as well as Haydn, Mozart......always exciting committed performances most welcome to have these at reduced price


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## Malx

Merl - I've finally got round to listening to Blomstedt's Beethoven set after hearing so many people praise it here and elsewhere.
I listened via Qobuz in HiRes over the last few days and I hope you don't mind but I'll borrow your set grading system and apply it to each symphony as my cloth ears heard the recordings. 
I appreciate the ratings descriptions you apply don't lend themselves to individual symphonies but will indicate my thoughts relative to each other.

Symphony No 1 - B
Symphony No 2 - B+
Symphony No 3 - B+
Symphony No 4 - A+
Symphony No 5 - B+
Symphnoy No 6 - B
Symphony No 7 - A+
Symphony No 8 - A-
Symphony No 9 - A+

So three bullseyes a few near misses and only the 1st & 6th disappointed, but were by no means unlistenable. In a perverse kind of way I hoped I might disagree with your thoughts on the 7th & 9th but I have to agree along with the 4th for me they are the stars of the set.
Now the dilemma - do I really need to buy another Beethoven set or do I keep listening on Qobuz.....

Keep up the good work but please don't find too many more decent sets, my wallet is currently shedding tears!


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## CnC Bartok

Got my Steinberg set, arrived remarkably early. Listened to No.1 and No.3, great stuff, especially the Eroica, No.1 doesn't smile as much as it could. Just fyi, apparently the finale of No.9 is not from the master tapes but from LP, the master is lost!

No mention of him using the Mahler orchestration, so I'll have to take your word....!


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> Got my Steinberg set, arrived remarkably early. Listened to No.1 and No.3, great stuff, especially the Eroica, No.1 doesn't smile as much as it could. Just fyi, apparently the finale of No.9 is not from the master tapes but from LP, the master is lost!
> 
> No mention of him using the Mahler orchestration, so I'll have to take your word....!


Where did you get the info from, CnC? I've been trying to get info on this set since it came out


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## CnC Bartok

Imaginatively, from the booklet! Actually not much info in there, recording dates and locations, biography of Steinberg. Absolutely no mention of Mahler retuschen though.... I'll listen out for tubas and double timpani when I get there, I promise!


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## Merl

That's definitely Mahler's re-orchestrated 9th. Check out the additional woodwinds (some playing slightly higher) and double timpani - they're clearly audible. There's even a tuba in there during the first movement (not listening at the mo so can't pinpoint it). Here's what an old crazy LVB friend of mine wrote on the groups, many moons ago.

"The Beethoven 9 in William Steinberg's cycle with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra uses the Mahler orchestration (what this symphony needs is more tuba! ) . Steinberg usually used the Mahler orchestration in live performance. I have live bootlegs of Steinberg doing the 9th. He always used it.... ".

There's also an article on Grammophone which mentions it but I can't get access as I don't have a Grammophone account.

Edit:
Thank you to some kind gentleman on Amazon for adding this...

" _MAHLER'S TUBA:
Beethoven's Ninth Symphony was first performed in 1824.
The published score calls for the usual strings (exact number unspecified), plus pairs of woodwinds (+ one piccolo and one contrabassoon), 2 trumpets, 4 horns, 3 trombones and timpani.
By 1900, the number of strings in the Vienna Philharmonic had greatly increased, and Gustav Mahler set out to restore the balance.
Mahler re-scored the Ninth for quadruple woodwinds (+ one E-Flat clarinet + one piccolo and one contrabassoon), 4 trumpets, 8 horns, 6 trombones (+ one tuba), and 2 sets of timpani.
Mahler referred to his efforts as "retuschen" (retouches).
The doubling of winds and brass became commonplace in the 20th Century (less so in the 21st), but in 1966 William Steinberg became the first conductor to record the Ninth Symphony while observing almost all of Mahler's retuschen.*
DG's booklet makes no mention of Mahler, but I am old enough to remember when the original LPs came out.
Steinberg's use of Mahler's retuschen was a hot topic in musical publications.

Everything is just bigger and more dramatic here, but there are two specific changes that stand out:
--- Double Timpani:
In the first movement (only) Mahler adds a second set of timpani.
Heightens the drama, but I wish they were placed further apart in the sound stage.
--- Mahler's Tuba:
In addition to doubling existing instruments, Mahler also added two new instruments to the score.
I didn't really notice the E-Flat clarinet, but can clearly hear the tuba player oompahing his heart out from 9:20 to 9:56 of the first movement.
I can't recall ever seeing a tuba player on stage during a performance of the Ninth.
Steinberg also makes use of wind and brass doublings in Symphonies 1-8, but does not specifically use Mahler's retuschen for these symphonies.

* Steinberg ignored one of Mahler's retuschen - Mahler suggested that the "Turkish March" preceding the tenor solo in the finale should begin quietly offstage (sort of like the march that begins Wellington's Victory)._"

If you don't believe me have a listen. Knorf hates these retouches, btw. Tuba comes in at around the 9.20 mark.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Knorf said:


> The timpani are recessed in general, sometimes far too much as in 5, sometimes ok, but rarely where I'd prefer in terms of prominence.


Thanks for your review. That is a deal breaker for me. I love timpani and I like it to be prominent in general and specifically in Beethoven's symphonies which don't have the same impact with recessed timpani.


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