# Recommendations for Britten's String Quartet No 2 in C major, Op 36



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Hello everyone,
While I was scrolling through Current Listening Vol II, I came across sbmonty post, where he listened to Britten's String Quartet No 2 in C major, Op 36 by Takács Quartet. Unfortunately, I am streaming music from Tidal, and they don't have that particular album. I then listened to a performance on Youtube, and I really love it. 





So I was wondering if there is anyone who can recommended a record of Britten's String Quartet No 2 in C major, Op 36, so I can check if they have it on Tidal, and give it a listen.
Thank you, and have a nice day!


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

The 'definitive' one is by the Amadeus Quartet, along with their premiere of the String Quartet No. 3.

The third was written for them, but the second wasn't, so it's not really *that* definitive. But it's good.

Other ones I have: Brodsky Quartet (which got a Penguin Guide rosette if that means anything to you!) and the Endellion String Quartet, which was BBC Music Magazine's choice about 7 or 8 years ago. The Maggini String Quartet did quite a good one about 20 years ago, now available on Naxos.

Chandos also have the Sorrel Quartet doing Nos. 1 and 2, including a quartet in F major Britten wrote in 1928, which might be of interest.

I'd also vouch for the Emperor Quartet. They have 2 disks out, together covering all the numbered string quartets, plus other more minor string works. Their rendition of the second quartet especially is very, very good.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> View attachment 149877
> 
> 
> The 'definitive' one is by the Amadeus Quartet, along with their premiere of the String Quartet No. 3.
> ...


I would concur with your choice, but I must say being the one that I've always known the best might have something to do with it.

At the risk of appearing pedantic, I struggle with the description 'definitive' when applied to a recording. It does rather rule out a better future performance coming along. Perhaps there are more important things to worry about!


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> I would concur with your choice, but I must say being the one that I've always known the best might have something to do with it.
> 
> At the risk of appearing pedantic, I struggle with the description 'definitive' when applied to a recording. It does rather rule out a better future performance coming along. Perhaps there are more important things to worry about!


It's definitive in the sense that it (SQ3) was played by the Amadeus Quartet to Britten at the Red House on 28th September 1976, two months before he died. Definitive doesn't inevitably mean 'best ever', but can also mean 'done with authority'. He wrote it for them and then had a private performance of it, at which no doubt he corrected their interpretation and gave them guidance when necessary and, presumably, ended up approving of it: that is what makes it definitive.


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

Which of these three recordings do you recommend: Endellion, Maggini or Belcea Quartet?


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

FastkeinBrahms said:


> Which of these three recordings do you recommend: Endellion, Maggini or Belcea Quartet?


Personally, of those three, the Maggini. I find the Belcea too 'flamboyant' and the Endellion too intellectual and dry. But there's not a hell of a lot of difference between any of them, really: they're all exceedingly good.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> It's definitive in the sense that it (SQ3) was played by the Amadeus Quartet to Britten at the Red House on 28th September 1976, two months before he died. Definitive doesn't inevitably mean 'best ever', but can also mean 'done with authority'. He wrote it for them and then had a private performance of it, at which no doubt he corrected their interpretation and gave them guidance when necessary and, presumably, ended up approving of it: that is what makes it definitive.


Yes, we disagree!


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Personally, of those three, the Maggini. I find the Belcea too 'flamboyant' and the Endellion too intellectual and dry. But there's not a hell of a lot of difference between any of them, really: they're all exceedingly good.


Funny enough, I was going to suggest the Maggini recording. And as you say, they are all good.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> Yes, we disagree!


Well, we disagree about the meaning of a word. But since you can find 'with authority' in almost any dictionary you care to consult, that's not quite the same thing as having a difference of opinion, is it?


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Well, we disagree about the meaning of a word. But since you can find 'with authority' in almost any dictionary you care to consult, that's not quite the same thing as having a difference of opinion, is it?


If you meant 'with authority' you should have said 'with authority', or 'authoratitive'. Definitive has a decisive, conclusive meaning to it. If something is definitive, it excludes others. Another performance can't also be definitive, but it can be authoritative. So in this context, definitive is wrong. You used the wrong word. I do it sometimes, so you are in good company.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> If you meant 'with authority' you should have said 'with authority', or 'authoratitive'. Definitive has a decisive, conclusive meaning to it. If something is definitive, it excludes others.


Go read a dictionary some time. None of what you've written there is true. You've decided to join the dots and make defintive=best ever. It can mean something along those lines, but it doesn't have to. And I choose the words I use with care. Happy to elaborate on them to swat away any doubt that might creep in, which is what I've done for you here. But your personal understanding of what the word means isn't the one that's documented, nor the one I accordingly intended.



HenryPenfold said:


> Another performance can't also be definitive, but it can be authoritative.


Keep digging.

Britten died two months after the Amadeus played SQ3 for him, so no: there cannot be another performance blessed by the composer with his approval. And thus, no other performers will be able to claim his 'authorisation' of their performance. And thus, their performance is definitive and there cannot be other definitive performances, because there cannot be other 'authorised' performances. And 'authorised' doesn't, in any event, mean the same thing as 'authoritative', so that bit of your sentence is just pointless: I didn't mention 'authoritative'.

That their performance is authorised and thus definitive doesn't mean there can't be better performances. But to semi-quote someone else "If you meant 'better performance', you should have said 'better performance'.



HenryPenfold said:


> So in this context, definitive is wrong. You used the wrong word. I do it sometimes, so you are in good company.


I'm done with you Henry. You're being a pain in the posterior for no good reason. I used precisely the right word in the right context and if you're too dumb or lazy to check a dictionary before pontificating on a subject you are wrong about, be my guest.

Reaching for the ignore option. Over and out.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Go read a dictionary some time. None of what you've written there is true. You've decided to join the dots and make defintive=best ever. It can mean something along those lines, but it doesn't have to. And I choose the words I use with care. Happy to elaborate on them to swat away any doubt that might creep in, which is what I've done for you here. But your personal understanding of what the word means isn't the one that's documented, nor the one I accordingly intended.
> 
> Keep digging.
> 
> ...


I'm not being a pain in the ar*se, you just need to control your temper and curb your stubbornness. Take up Tai Chi or something, or go work on a heavy bag - get it out your system another way.

I'm making an important point. Music evolves and over time there will be many performances and recordings of thousands of works, and none of them will be able to claim to be definitive. We see this happening all the time different approaches, interpretations, instruments (eg HIPP-replacemnts for modern instruments) and so on. There can be no definitive performance, no performance can define a work. Is there a definitive Parsifal, Bruckner 8, Mahler 2, Beethoven 9 etc? Of course there is not.

P.S. if you put me on ignore, I bet you won't be able to resist taking a peek.


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

Before the two of you start enlisting seconds for a duel that might only leave one alive I would like to thank both of you for the excellent recommendation of the Maggini recording. I just listened to it after a walk in the snow and the players brought in a breath of fresh air with their beautiful playing. Beautiful sound, wonderfully light-footed in the almost Mendelssohnian Vivace and a very full sound in the darker passages of the Chacony. I can hardly believe the opening movement is written in C Major. If so, it is one of the most "minor" sounding C Major pieces know. 
This is the first Britten quartet I have listened to. Are the other two as good as this one?


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

At the end they sound almost like an orchestra with their full sound, great!


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

FastkeinBrahms said:


> Before the two of you start enlisting seconds for a duel that might only leave one alive I would like to thank both of you for the excellent recommendation of the Maggini recording. I just listened to it after a walk in the snow and the players brought in a breath of fresh air with their beautiful playing. Beautiful sound, wonderfully light-footed in the almost Mendelssohnian Vivace and a very full sound in the darker passages of the Chacony. I can hardly believe the opening movement is written in C Major. If so, it is one of the most "minor" sounding C Major pieces know.
> This is the first Britten quartet I have listened to. Are the other two as good as this one?


I'm pleased you liked it.

What you say about the C major is very true. It reminds me of the story of Britten being asked by a friend about his setting of The Miller of Dee' folksong: it's all minor-key stuff and dark and troubled, and the friend complained that it was supposed to be about a '*jolly* miller'! And Britten is said to have replied "Hmmph. Jolly. Old Suffolk word for 'miserable'". So, he was quite capable of seeing the darkness in everything!


----------



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Thanks for the recommendation, AbsolutelyBaching and HenryPenfold, I will see if Tidal has the Maggini recording, and will definitely put this record on my watchlist.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Add the Dorics to those already mentioned. Superb account.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Merl said:


> Add the Dorics to those already mentioned. Superb account.


Indeed. And don't forget that the Doric's viola player is playing Britten's own viola on those recordings. Which, if memory serves, was Bridge's before him.

Personally, I find the Dorics sort of semi-detatched and not particularly engaging. More like a school-room exercise than a full-throated performance. But obviously, we all have our different approaches. And again, there's nothing fundamentally _wrong_ with what they do. They sound brilliant in any event.


----------



## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

We covered Britten's "La Serenissima" influenced (or "Death in Venice") 3rd String Quartet in 5 movements early on in the "Weekly Quartet" thread. Some of our discussion might interest you and equally apply to recordings of Britten's 2nd SQ (& to his whole SQ cycle). Our conversation starts towards the lower end of the page linked here: Weekly quartet. Just a music lover perspective.. Hope it helps.

By the way, the Endellion String Quartet has recorded the Britten cycle twice, first in 1986 for EMI, and a second time in 2013 for Watner Classics. The first set is more comprehensive, as it includes the quartets that Britten composed his late teens and early twenties, in addition to his mature quartets. To my knowledge, no other quartet has included these early works in their Britten cycle.


----------



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Merl said:


> Add the Dorics to those already mentioned. Superb account.


Thanks! I will add it to my playlist.


----------



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Josquin13 said:


> We covered Britten's "La Serenissima" influenced (or "Death in Venice") 3rd String Quartet in 5 movements early on in the "Weekly Quartet" thread. Some of our discussion might interest you and equally apply to recordings of Britten's 2nd SQ (& to his whole SQ cycle). Our conversation starts towards the lower end of the page linked here: Weekly quartet. Just a music lover perspective.. Hope it helps.
> 
> By the way, the Endellion String Quartet has recorded the Britten cycle twice, first in 1986 for EMI, and a second time in 2013 for Watner Classics. The first set is more comprehensive, as it includes the quartets that Britten composed his late teens and early twenties, in addition to his mature quartets. To my knowledge, no other quartet has included these early works in their Britten cycle.


Thank for introducing me to a new thread! I glance it over, and I'm very interested in the discussion. I appreciate it.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Josquin13 said:


> We covered Britten's "La Serenissima" influenced (or "Death in Venice") 3rd String Quartet in 5 movements early on in the "Weekly Quartet" thread. Some of our discussion might interest you and equally apply to recordings of Britten's 2nd SQ (& to his whole SQ cycle). Our conversation starts towards the lower end of the page linked here: Weekly quartet. Just a music lover perspective.. Hope it helps.
> 
> By the way, the Endellion String Quartet has recorded the Britten cycle twice, first in 1986 for EMI, and a second time in 2013 for Watner Classics. The first set is more comprehensive, as it includes the quartets that Britten composed his late teens and early twenties, in addition to his mature quartets. To my knowledge, no other quartet has included these early works in their Britten cycle.


It's a good link, so thank you. I tend not to visit the nether regions of the forum: it's interesting to see what goes on!

Just to point out *that post #52* (your own, I fear) is incorrect on two points. First, Britten _did_ get to hear the completed work, as previously described in this thread: September 28th 1976, the Amadeus went to the Red House and performed it for him there. Second, Britten never saw the film _Death in Venice_. He was advised not to, on copyright grounds: he and his advisers wanted no suggestion of film->opera influence (and similarly no film-> string quartet influence).

There was a third point I wanted to take issue with, but I've forgotten it now, which is probably just as well!


----------



## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

AbsolutelyBaching, 

Thanks for your corrections of my Britten post. I wrote it so long ago now that I can't recall what my sources were, so I can't respond, but no doubt you're right. Interesting that Britten never saw the film, and was advised not to see it on "copyright grounds". I didn't know that.

As for the "Weekly Quartet" thread, it's actually quite an active thread on TC. We don't think of ourselves in the "nether regions" ;-), but we could be, as new people keep discovering us.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Josquin13 said:


> AbsolutelyBaching,
> 
> Thanks for your corrections of my Britten post. I wrote it so long ago now that I can't recall what my sources were, so I can't respond, but no doubt you're right. Interesting that Britten never saw the film, and was advised not to see it on "copyright grounds". I didn't know that.


Just for the record, then. Pages 518 to 519 of Humphrey Carpenter's _Benjamin Britten (1992)_:

_"Britten had now been shown 'a few deplorable photographs' of the Visconti film, which made him 'determine to miss' seeing it. In any case, the lawyers had told him not to, so that there could be no accusation of plagiarism. 'I warn you,' he told Anthony Gishford on 3rd April [1971], 'nothing can now put me off writing it!'"_

That isn't actually the reference I have in my head... but it's the best I could come up with in a hurry!

I realise the thread was a while ago now. Just setting the record straight where I can!


----------



## mkur (Sep 2, 2021)

This one:






Britten: String Quartet No. 2 & 3 by Britten Quartet on Amazon Music - Amazon.com


Check out Britten: String Quartet No. 2 & 3 by Britten Quartet on Amazon Music. Stream ad-free or purchase CD's and MP3s now on Amazon.com.



www.amazon.com





seems to be the best.

Maggini praised earlier is too lightweight and sweet.


----------

