# Peter Grimes



## delallan (Jan 4, 2011)

Watching the HD broadcast of Peter Grimes on Met Opera Player. I LOVE this work; I'm new to Benjamin Britten and am eating this up! 

Peace,

Del


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

delallan said:


> Watching the HD broadcast of Peter Grimes on Met Opera Player. I LOVE this work; I'm new to Benjamin Britten and am eating this up!
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Del


It is spectacular. Unfortunately, though, other works by Britten that I have explored so far don't seem to be as good, at least in my humble opinion.


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## delallan (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm relatively new here. Are there others who use the Met Opera Player to watch opera? I think it's the greatest thing, especially when one can't easily get to see many live productions.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, I'm a subscriber, and so are Gaston (jhar26) and Natalie (mamascarlatti), plus a couple of others. Welcome to the forum. Natalie knows of many other options for streaming opera (because MetPlayer is finite, they don't have that many operas) - there is a thread about it with a list of sites.

Here is the link: http://www.talkclassical.com/12314-streaming-media.html

Come join us in the many discussions we've been having both here and on the Opera on DVD-Blu Ray subforum.


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## delallan (Jan 4, 2011)

Wow! Thanks! I'd love to know more! Netflix does not carry them here in Canada, but if there are other sites, I would love to know!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I have just updated the above post and included the link to that thread.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I love Grimes... as long as he isn't sung by some wild bear who can only shout. He needs some subtlety.

The most magical thing about it is maybe the orchestra. Britten could do wonders with that.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

You can find some posts about Britten's works here (scrolling down, they are more towards the end of the thread):

http://www.talkclassical.com/11654-modern-opera-dvd-blu.html


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> I love Grimes... as long as he isn't sung by some wild bear who can only shout. He needs some subtlety.
> 
> The most magical thing about it is maybe the orchestra. Britten could do wonders with that.


True. The orchestral parts of Peter Grimes are simply sublime.
To my surprise given my high expectations after I loved Peter Grimes, I definitely didn't like as much Billy Budd and The Turn of the Screw. Some say that Death in Venice and the Rape of Lucretia are just as good as Peter Grimes. I haven't seen them yet. What do you think of them?


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## delallan (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you so much for your help! I've already visited the Classical TV Video link that you had in your post. Excellent! 

Thanks again!


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Britten has an amazing range of style in his operas. There isn't one that I wouldn't rate at least very good (well maybe Paul Bunyan). Grimes is the best, especially the composer led DVD with Peter Pears. Other standouts include Midsummer Night's Dream, Albert Herring (a comedy) and Death in Venice (but fairly depressing). I even enjoyed Gloriana.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Rangstrom said:


> Britten has an amazing range of style in his operas. There isn't one that I wouldn't rate at least very good (well maybe Paul Bunyan). Grimes is the best, especially the composer led DVD with Peter Pears. Other standouts include Midsummer Night's Dream, Albert Herring (a comedy) and Death in Venice (but fairly depressing). I even enjoyed Gloriana.


I only know the three I've mentioned. Which one do you think I should try next? Death in Venice?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

delallan said:


> Thank you so much for your help! I've already visited the Classical TV Video link that you had in your post. Excellent!
> 
> Thanks again!


You're welcome! I'm glad that you've joined, keep posting!:tiphat:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*I don't*

Martin...is like Martin...

I don't like Peter Grimes I saw this opera when I was 17 (?) and didn't like it. I love his last opera: Death in Venice (Thomas Mann)...But the story is a bit hard/weird/devious...about a middle age man "flashed" by a young boy

Britten and Thomas Mann had something in common. They were peculiar.

Martin


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I only know the three I've mentioned. Which one do you think I should try next? Death in Venice?


Maybe Herring. There is a decent recording on Naxos. The composer's recording on Midsummer next (or the Haitink DVD/although I found the sound on that recording too bright for the orchestration).


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Boring?*

I also saw the Rape of Lucretia....Ugh...I didn't like it...it was included in my season ticket...When it finished I was exhausted...

Martin, not a Britten fan


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Wow! All the comments have been really informative - put this on the wish-list.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

DiV is beautiful but not too easy at first, it depends on the tenor. I have the Glyndebourne dvd which is satisfying but I have a feeling it could be doen even better.

I'd recommend Billy Budd. Even my not-into-opera mother liked the music and the story (she didn't really get the homoerotic subtext, of course). The only hard thing is to find a version where Billy *looks* the part. 

I have 3 Grimes dvds. Grimes-wise I'm most satisfied with the '94?/'95? ENO version, ensemble-wise with the Covent Garden one. And good ensemble is very important in Grimes.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Death in Venice is a difficult work that rewards repeated listening. I did not like it the first time I heard it, but there were some parts that caught my interest, so I tried again. Now I find the music enthralling, though still unsettling.

I love Turn of the Screw, which was the first opera I ever saw live. It is amazing what Britten can do with the combination of a twelve-tone theme and tonal harmony. And the concept of a theme-and-variations opera, besides being really cool in theory, fits perfectly with the idea of a "turning screw" and the arc of the story, which becomes increasingly tense and claustrophobic.

And Midsummer Night's Dream, while I acknowledge it is not a serious masterpiece on the level of Grimes, might just be my favorite opera ever. It is unceasingly entertaining and showcases Britten's great stylistic versatility in the different sound worlds he creates for the three main groups of characters. And it includes some really exquisitely beautiful music, as well as some _hilarious_ music (particularly the spoof of Italian opera in the "Pyramus and Thisbe" scene).

Anyway, I'm not really sure to whom I'm addressing these recommendations. I just like gushing about Britten.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Meaghan said:


> Death in Venice is a difficult work that rewards repeated listening. I did not like it the first time I heard it, but there were some parts that caught my interest, so I tried again. Now I find the music enthralling, though still unsettling.
> 
> I love Turn of the Screw, which was the first opera I ever saw live. It is amazing what Britten can do with the combination of a twelve-tone theme and tonal harmony. And the concept of a theme-and-variations opera, besides being really cool in theory, fits perfectly with the idea of a "turning screw" and the arc of the story, which becomes increasingly tense and claustrophobic.
> 
> ...


Well, you're addressing the forum members... and we're thankful for your contribution. I think my problem with Britten resides in the order of my exposure to the only three operas of his that I know. Peter Grimes is so absolutely fascinating and formidable that I didn't like Billy Budd and Turn of the Screw as much, given the familiar phenomenon of too high expectations leading to disappointment. Maybe if I had proceeded in reverse order...

Peter Grimes completely stunned me. I kept thinking about it for days and days in a row, then weeks... months maybe. I often think about it again. So when I got the other two, I was thinking "wow, I'm in for a treat, I'll be watching another Britten opera...!" But then, they didn't cause on me the same impact of Peter Grimes.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Almaviva: what cast/staging did you get in Billy Budd? Perhaps it's worth another try. It has some really beautiful music.

Ok, it's my favourite


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Almaviva, have you listened to/watched Midsummer Night's Dream? If you haven't, and are still looking for your next Britten opera, you may find it very enjoyable (provided you don't approach it expecting Peter Grimes).


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> Almaviva: what cast/staging did you get in Billy Budd? Perhaps it's worth another try. It has some really beautiful music.
> 
> Ok, it's my favourite


Sieglinde, this one (staging by Willie Decker). My beef with it wasn't because of the staging which I thought to be excellent. Orchestra, conductor, singers/actors all excellent. The one big problem with this production was the fact that they chose to stage the full 4-act original version and I think it is too darn long. Britten agrees since he later shortened it to 2 acts. Maybe what I need is to watch it again with a 2-act revised version. Which one do you recommend? (preferably video version please - see my sig):

*Conductor Donald Runnicles - 2001(LI)*

*Orchestra - Wiener Staatsoper*

*Chorus - Wiener Staatsoper*



*Billy Budd - Boje (Bo) Skovus*

*Captain Vere - Neil Shicoff*

*John Claggart - Eric Halfvarson*

*Mr. Redburn - Robert Bork*

*Mr. Flint - Wolfgang Bankl*

*Mr. Ratcliffe - David Cale Johnson*

*Red Whiskers - John Dickie*

*Donald - Geert Smits*

*Dansker - Alfred Sramek*

*Novice - John Nuzzo*

*Squeak - Cosmin Ifrim*

*Bosun - Janusz Monarcha*

*First Mate - Boaz Daniel*

*Second Mate - Marcus Pelz*

*Maintop - Peter Jelosits*

*Novice's Friend - Yu Chen*

*Cabin Boy - Valentin Klausberg*

*Arthur Jones - Mario Steller*
​


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Meaghan said:


> Almaviva, have you listened to/watched Midsummer Night's Dream? If you haven't, and are still looking for your next Britten opera, you may find it very enjoyable (provided you don't approach it expecting Peter Grimes).


No, I haven't, Meaghan. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I agree that Albert Herring should be the one to try next. It's a pleasure from start to finish and in some ways is a subtly comic antithesis of Grimes - you still get the same feeling of community insularity and parochiality and AH himself is a character who more often than not doesn't 'fit in', just like Grimes.

After what amounts to AH's comic relief then it's back to the serious stuff - I suggest Turn of the Screw, the music of which brilliantly encapsulates the isolation of the house's location and the almost claustrophobic atmosphere once the ghosts (real or imagined) start to unsettle the daily routine of The Governess and her charges. (good version on Naxos as there is of Herring).


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

How about Owen Wingrave, the opera that Britten composed for television? My first experience of it was on DVD, although it's an old production, with Britten himself conducting, but it's available on CD, too.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I have this dvd but the two-act version is not so much shorter. Only Vere's "Let's pwn some Frogs, k?" speech was cut and that bit altered. 

Hm, I'd say try the '88 ENO version, it's a bit too minimalist in setting but has excellent singers, it's the two-act version and has some badass qualities:

- Philip Langridge <3 He was born for Vere.
- Thomas Allen, although not as young and pretty as Skovhus but vocally perfect - if only he didn't look so Don Giovanni-ish 
- Richard Van Allan who looks like the lovechild of Moff Tarkin and Dracula (seriously)
- My favourite officer trio - those guys feel like leads.
- Most ratlike Squeak, would cast him as Wormtail in a heartbeat.
- Nice and action-filled battle sequence


The other officially existant dvd is the '66 TV version. If you can suffer ridiculous wigs and a Billy who isn't hot at all... but for this you get a beautiful, realistic setting, historically accurate uniforms (minus Claggart who looks like a 17th century Flemish Protestant), Pears, a hot, young Redburn (Shirley-Quirk), and Langdon who is another excellent Claggart.

And there's an unofficial but easy-to-buy dvd from Genf, which has:

- Rod Gilfry - sexiest Billy ever with a beautiful manly voice
- unfortunately, Robert Tear who has about -11 stage presence (sings great though)
- Willard White, very young, as Claggart 
- onstage hanging of DOOM
- have I mentioned Gilfry's mighty barihunk powers? 


(All of these 2-act)

I'm awaiting another dvd now, hoping it will arrive...


Vienna dvd is unbeatable in one thing: no bass can look as psycho as Halfvarsson.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks, Sieglinde, I'll look into one of these and report back once I watch it. It will be a while, though, since my unwatched pile is huge by now.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Got my ordered dvd - the '97 Met version! Will write a review once I watched it (most likely tonight).


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> "Let's pwn some Frogs, k?"


:lol:



Sieglinde said:


> And there's an unofficial but easy-to-buy dvd from Genf, which has:
> 
> - Rod Gilfry - sexiest Billy ever with a beautiful manly voice
> - unfortunately, Robert Tear who has about -11 stage presence (sings great though)
> ...


Want.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

If I had a lot of screencaps, I'd totally make a lolcat-style poster series of it. 

I watched the Met version. //Warning: fangirlish gushing ensues!// Oh, YESSSSS! Beautiful set (and stage technique), great Power Trio... historically accurate uniforms!

First of all, Philip Langridge IS Vere. Here even more than in the ENO staging... so elegant in that uniform and so noble and I almost forgot what a heavenly light and beautiful voice he had! And his Vere goes into such depths of suffering. Needs a hug badly. Preferably from Billy.

Dwayne Croft is a cute Billy (why wasn't he born a Heldentenor... he'd make such a great Siegfried and Parsifal!), blonde, radiant, angelic... all you need. And wow... a Billy who keeps his shirt on and still manages to be awesome!

James Morris is first of all _so damn hot_. Hard to recognize without his trademark eyepatch and beard, but makes a sarcastic, stylish and somewhat sympathetic villain. Those little half-smirks!  And he dies soooo elegantly!

So, definitely recommended.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> If I had a lot of screencaps, I'd totally make a lolcat-style poster series of it.
> 
> I watched the Met version. //Warning: fangirlish gushing ensues!// Oh, YESSSSS! Beautiful set (and stage technique), great Power Trio... historically accurate uniforms!
> 
> ...


Could you post a photo of the cover? I can't work out which one it is.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Had no cover. It's unofficial, taped from a TV broadcast.

I got it from here. It arrived quite fast and I live in the other side of the world.

Picture quality is not HD but good enough. It's a shame the Met didn't release it yet officially.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> Had no cover. It's unofficial, taped from a TV broadcast.
> 
> I got it from here. It arrived quite fast and I live in the other side of the world.
> 
> Picture quality is not HD but good enough. It's a shame the Met didn't release it yet officially.


 Thanks. Haven't bought from this site before but $5.83 +pp ain't gonna break the bank.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Thanks. Haven't bought from this site before but $5.83 +pp ain't gonna break the bank.


Content edited out by author (Almaviva) due to mention of vendors who may be violating copyright laws.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Self-serving disclaimers aside, these releases are in violation of copyright laws. There are a few exceptions: broadcasts more than 50 years old and authorized releases by the performers (the Grateful Dead did this for years for free circulation, not commercial) are the two most common.

In my opinion it is wrong to traffic in these products and I do not buy them.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I only buy what I can't get *elsewhere*. And honestly, Billy Budd is the only opera I buy in any version. I have tons of Rings and Don Giovannis too, but those are all gifts / taped from TV.

I asked on the Met site if they plan to relese this and they said no... so be it. I'd gladly pay for an official dvd... but there is none and now I have the Precious! 

*sigh* When will we ever see a Vere like Philip?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Rangstrom said:


> Self-serving disclaimers aside, these releases are in violation of copyright laws. There are a few exceptions: broadcasts more than 50 years old and authorized releases by the performers (the Grateful Dead did this for years for free circulation, not commercial) are the two most common.
> 
> In my opinion it is wrong to traffic in these products and I do not buy them.


Rangstrom, allow me to play the Devil's Advocate a little. Not that I don't agree with you, but I have a question: when I buy an opera from [edited out by Almaviva] like La Wally which doesn't exist in commercial DVD, who exactly am I hurting? You may say, the singers/orchestra/conductor etc. in the case of a future La Wally DVD, but I'm not aware of any plans to release one, and if they do, then I'll buy the commercial one as well which is likely to be of much better quality.

So, as long as we only buy stuff that doesn't otherwise exist, are we actually hurting anyone?

If we are, I'm willing to stop buying from them, but please, tell me what you think.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Almaviva--I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but you are presenting the best case scenario in a vacuum. Take La Wally. You can't find a non-pirated DVD so you buy this one promising that if a commercial DVD is released you will buy it to balance your karma. But will everyone buying La Wally do the same? Will a record company be willing to release a DVD of La Wally if the niche market is buying bootlegs? And how do you feel about the other releases at these sites? When I first read about them here I took a look and was frankly shocked at the number releases in direct competition with current commercial releases. Maybe you don't buy them (knowing that they shortchange the performers and the--mostly--struggling opera companies) but obviously others do and by supporting these sites you are helping underwrite piracy.

I know it is hard to support the big corporations that own some of the major labels. They make some horrible marketing decisions. Still in this time that has our favorite music hanging by a thread, there is so much music available at incredible prices that I refuse to harm the industry (art) in the name of expediency. There may not be DVDs of La Wally (no loss really) or the Tempest, but there are commercial cd releases (I paid all of $8 for the Tempest) and I'm willing to wait for a proper DVD release.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Rangstrom said:


> Almaviva--I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but you are presenting the best case scenario in a vacuum. Take La Wally. You can't find a non-pirated DVD so you buy this one promising that if a commercial DVD is released you will buy it to balance your karma. But will everyone buying La Wally do the same? Will a record company be willing to release a DVD of La Wally if the niche market is buying bootlegs? And how do you feel about the other releases at these sites? When I first read about them here I took a look and was frankly shocked at the number releases in direct competition with current commercial releases. Maybe you don't buy them (knowing that they shortchange the performers and the--mostly--struggling opera companies) but obviously others do and by supporting these sites you are helping underwrite piracy.
> 
> I know it is hard to support the big corporations that own some of the major labels. They make some horrible marketing decisions. Still in this time that has our favorite music hanging by a thread, there is so much music available at incredible prices that I refuse to harm the industry (art) in the name of expediency. There may not be DVDs of La Wally (no loss really) or the Tempest, but there are commercial cd releases (I paid all of $8 for the Tempest) and I'm willing to wait for a proper DVD release.


OK, you have convinced me. In my defense, at the time of all my previous purchases from them I was convinced that those performances were indeed in the public domain, since they were mostly recovered from oldish-looking television broadcasts. I've only bought two more from them since I've learned that some people were questioning their statements that they don't step on copyright laws.

I won't buy from them any longer, and won't quote their products in my next posts for the Top 100 DVDs project.

I fully agree with your argument that we need to protect this niche market or else our beloved art form will have less opportunities to survive and grow.

Another point in my defense is that while I did buy these DVDs from these vendors, they have represented a tiny fraction of my purchases. I'm a big opera spender, and my purchases of commercial products have been in the several thousands of dollars - I've been doing my best to help the niche market.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Rangstrom said:


> When I first read about them here I took a look and was frankly shocked at the number releases in direct competition with current commercial releases.


You'll be glad to read this post:

http://www.talkclassical.com/145631-post633.html


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Just to point out, the website says this:

These recordings are of nonprofessional quality that are in the public domain


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> Just to point out, the website says this:
> 
> These recordings are of nonprofessional quality that are in the public domain


I know. That's what they say, and that's what other people question. For instance, I got a Bluebeard's Castle from them, and was thoroughly convinced that it was public domain material, copied from Hungarian TV, looking oldish and all. Then Herkku told me that a commercial product with the exact same singers, orchestra, conductor, and scenario that I was describing in my review is available for sale in Europe from one of the regular DVD companies.

This may very well be similar to the situation of the Met TV broadcasts on public television in the US. The Met says that we have the right to copy the operas "for one year." At the end of the year we're supposed to destroy the copy. So, you can say that a copy of it is in the public domain (not exactly - that is not what public domain means - but just as a way of speaking) but just for one year. If subsequently you sell copies and the Met releases the same opera on DVD, that's copyright infringement.

Recent example: the Met Aida DVD that is now for sale exclusively at Target stores is the same one that was on public television last year (by the way, it sucks so badly that I didn't even make a copy for me). So if someone makes 1,000 copies of that broadcast and sell them to the public, even though it was legal to make the copies last year, now they'd be in violation of copyrights. And while it is legal to make a home copy, I doubt that it is legal to sell it.

My guess is that these vendors started by doing what is right - selling copies of old and rare recordings that were never picked up by the commercial companies and are in the public domain. But it is perfectly possible, reading their catalogue, that little by little they've started to creep in into copyright infringement. Hell, they now have dozens of recent productions - including some with Anna Netrebko La Bellissima! I want her to get paid!!!:scold:

So all that I'm saying is that I'm not sure whether these vendors are practicing copyright infringement or not. In doubt, I prefer not to patronize them in any way, shape, or form, including, not mentioning here their names or website addresses, and not listing their products in my Top 100 DVD project. It's the least I can do to preserve copyrights for our beloved artists. After all, while we're a relatively small group of some 1,000 registered users, the site is visited by tens of thousands of non-registered visitors, and mentioning these DVDs may result in a growing market for these vendors.

If someone can prove to me that 100% of their products are in the public domain, then I'll patronize them again.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

I think Almaviva has done a great job in framing the issues. It is complicated and obviously everyone has to decide for themselves where to draw the line. I have no problem with buying Naxos Historical releases or, rarely, taping broadcasts for personal use, but I avoid bootlegs (unless they are broadcasts more than 50 years old). Did I mention that it is complicated?


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

The Met should release all their old broadcasts officially. Otherwise, anything that was in TV can be taped... 

And opera dvds should not cost 7-8x of a normal dvd's price (here they do... and they have no extras, no interviews, no werkfilms...).


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> The Met should release all their old broadcasts officially. Otherwise, anything that was in TV can be taped...
> 
> And opera dvds should not cost 7-8x of a normal dvd's price (here they do... and they have no extras, no interviews, no werkfilms...).


7-8 times? Yikes! Over here they cost 2-3 times more but you can always find them cheaper from smaller vendors, or buy used copies. I try to buy smart every time I can, and won't mind used copies.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Yeah. In our opera's shop they have insane prices. The only reason I still don't have the Kupfer Ring is the price...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Sieglinde said:


> Yeah. In our opera's shop they have insane prices. The only reason I still don't have the Kupfer Ring is the price...


Prices are high too here in NZ. So I buy mainly online. Is that not an option for you?


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

No  Right now I have no money. And I'm saving for my Angelic Pretty dream dress.


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