# opera kids



## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

What age should you introduce kids to opera with subtitles?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey, it depends.
Operas like _Hänsel und Gretel_, and _L'Enfant et les Sortilèges_ can appeal to kids of all ages, even very young. 
I've seen kids appreciate even much more sophisticated operas. 
One of these days a friend of mine had to unexpectedly come over with her two young daughters, because she lost her house keys and was waiting for her husband to get home and open the door. I was watching a version of Le Nozze di Figaro with my wife, with subtitles. I think one girl was 10 and the other was 8. They sat and watched with us, and got pretty upset when their father showed up and took everybody home before the opera was over. They were wildly enjoying it and wanted to watch until the end. These two kids had never been exposed to opera before.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

I was thinking La Cenerentola, Magic Flute etc.

I was also thinking that the Met english Flute might be good for children. I think I read that it was made for families. Opera for children is I think the only reason to translate and opera.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Grosse Fugue said:


> I was thinking La Cenerentola, Magic Flute etc.
> 
> I was also thinking that the Met english Flute might be good for children. I think I read that it was made for families. Opera for children is I think the only reason to translate and opera.


These are good options too, they are both operas that can entice children.
However the translation thing is bogus in my opinion.
I once read a review of an English-language version of Hänsel und Gretel, in which the reviewer was saying: "OK, they got an opera in German that American kids wouldn't be able to understand without English subtitles, then they made it in English so that American kids would still not be able to understand it without English subtitles.":lol:
As you know, operatic singing makes the words of even a language you know well be harder to understand, so, why bother? I'd rather preserve the beauty of the original language and how it generally matches a lot better the sounds that the composer had intended for the words.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

Would 5 be too early?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

It depends on whether you're talking about taking your child to a live performance or watching a DVD.

The length of the live performance would be a factor & your child may get bored. With a DVD maybe watch in small chunks?


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## danslenoir (Nov 24, 2010)

I think 5 is too early to take a child to a live opera; there's absolutely no way they'd get anything meaningful out of the experience.

Bits and pieces here and there of recorded versions would be OK, but be careful not to force it down their necks (or ears ) or you'll put them off opera for life.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

It's okay for any age as long as Justin Bieber sings the main character.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

DVD 

What about for a seven year old. My concern is will they be willing to follow the story esp. with subtitiles?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I think mamascarlatti has a daughter of about seven & she enjoyed this










A seven year old should be able to grasp the concept of subtitles


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## danslenoir (Nov 24, 2010)

Grosse Fugue said:


> DVD
> 
> What about for a seven year old. My concern is will they be willing to follow the story esp. with subtitiles?


Why not try them out with something like this in the car?

http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Very-Opera-Kids-English/dp/B0000C5ROP

If they get any enjoyment out of the music, then have a shot at a DVD. If they complain and ask you to turn it off maybe wait a few more years


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Hehehe, the funny thing about this CD is what they say here:

"Features 14 best-loved arias performed in English by the world's finest opera stars"

Let's see who are the "world's finest opera stars:"

Allan Monk, Brian Banion, Daniel Lichti, Gregory Dahl, Daniel Taylor, Erin Thrall, Jean Stilwell, Aline Kulan, Lambroula Maria Pappas, Laura Whalen.

Huh... what? Who?:lol:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> I think mamascarlatti has a daughter of about seven & she enjoyed this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My seven-year-old so far has enjoyed Giulio Cesare (the Glyndebourne version, and we skipped some of the "sad bits"), Acis and Galatea, Les Indes Galantes, La Boheme, Carmen (the film version) Nozze di Figaro, Hansel and Gretel, Where the Wild Things are, Barber of Seville, Magic Flute, La Fille du Regiment and L'Elisir D'Amore. All on DVD, in the original with subtitles. She's a good reader and had no trouble with them, although sometimes I had to help with the stories.

However I made the mistake of taking her to the Met HD broadcast of Aida, and she wriggled like an eel on a hotplate. DVDs mean you can take breaks and stop if they get bored.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't know much about kids, but as I wrote in some other thread, my parents dragged me to the Savonlinna Opera Festival, when I was about thirteen, didn't understand anything about Boris Godunov (with Martti Talvela, no less! Hell, I didn't even know who the guy was!) and was bored to death - nearly. And where I stand now? An opera enthusiast!

And I'm all for the subtitles on DVD or surtitles at the opera! Even if I have seen an opera several times and know its libretto, I'm not so fluent in foreign languages that I could understand everything. As someone wrote, it's sometimes hard to understand opera even in your mother tongue!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Hehehe, the funny thing about this CD is what they say here:
> 
> "Features 14 best-loved arias performed in English by the world's finest opera stars"
> 
> ...


Hahaha, thanks for the laugh Almaviva


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

None of the names is familiar to me, either. So much for the world's finest singers! Or have we been kept in the dark?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I think we're in the clear, but they are in the dark waters of deceptive advertising...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Not finding any other thread on kids and opera, I'll post this here.

I found a site that provides materials on opera for teachers to use in the classroom (no reason parents could not use these at home). For example there are seven listed teacher resources for Barber of Seville and a nice page on voice types that I would do well to study.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

My wife homeschools two girls for a needy family. Today they want through this:

Classics for Kids, What's an Opera?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

It does, of course, depend on the kid. The worst thing you can do is try to force an experience like that on them. My own children have little or no interest in opera but they are both musicians. More recently I tried introducing my granddaughter to a DVD of Hansel and Gretel but she showed no interest whatsoever. What to do? Listen to music with her she does like!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Grosse Fugue said:


> Would 5 be too early?


Why not start like you would with children's DVD's and play them at home first so that they become familiar with some of the arias they like. Then watch their faces when they see and hear them up close at the theater. They'll appreciate it much more.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I'd say 13-15 or so. I wouldn't have appreciated opera at all before at least then.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'd say 13-15 or so. I wouldn't have appreciated opera at all before at least then.


One problem we we might have is that our kids often want to make choices different to ours. I chose classical music, which was different from what my father generally played, although he was a very fine semi-professional musician. My own kids (both musicians) have in their turn chosen to like different music from myself. One thing we must never do is to make this a source of conflict. The main point is that they enjoy and perform music.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

I found this book in our recent move. This book was my mothers who was a music major in college. The copyright on it say, "1911, 1940". So this book is from 1940 because that would be about right for my mothers age and college days.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Grosse Fugue said:


> What age should you introduce kids to opera with subtitles?


As soon as they could read decently and show a bit of curiosity for it. I've seen some young'uns at the Met and they have been quiet, polite and entranced. All kids are different. You know yours.

A friend of mine wanted to take her granddaughter to see _Carmen_ in the HD theater near us. I worried about the stabbing death scene and said that at 8 she was too young for that. Nah, she said. She'll be fine. 
It ended up that she sat next to me and enjoyed the entire first act tremendously. My worries were abated when the dreaded stabbing scene came arrived and I glanced over to see a perfectly content child fast asleep next to me. 
Victory has its ways.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Around 9, I took my kid to Bruckner 5 in concert. It was nice, he liked it. At 10-13, I took my kids to Bach's Matthew's passion. It was too much for them. Their faces when I had to say that the pause was half way and not the end, was memorable. Last month I asked if my 11 yr old wanted to come to the concert (Mahler 7), the alternative being a Fortnite game on Playstation. He wanted to and again he liked it. 
I think they will memorize all of this and that somehow a path will be paved.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

haydnguy said:


> I found this book in our recent move. This book was my mothers who was a music major in college. The copyright on it say, "1911, 1940". So this book is from 1940 because that would be about right for my mothers age and college days.


Hmmm, think I saw that book and it had operas that I most certainly would not introduce my or any child to, such as perhaps Carmen.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

nina foresti said:


> *As soon as they could read decently and show a bit of curiosity for it. I've seen some young'uns at the Met and they have been quiet, polite and entranced.* All kids are different. You know yours.
> 
> A friend of mine wanted to take her granddaughter to see _Carmen_ in the HD theater near us. I worried about the stabbing death scene and said that at 8 she was too young for that. Nah, she said. She'll be fine.
> It ended up that she sat next to me and enjoyed the entire first act tremendously. My worries were abated when the dreaded stabbing scene came arrived and I glanced over to see a perfectly content child fast asleep next to me.
> Victory has its ways.


At Munich opera recently (also "Carmen"), the conductor's 2 young daughters were in one of the boxes very close to the stage. Both looked to be under 10. I noticed them when the lights came up because they were blowing kisses to him and he was smiling up at them. They too were very well behaved during the actual performance and appeared to be thoroughly enjoying themselves.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

_The Magic Flute_ and _Hansel and Gretel_. Those should be the first too, for sure.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Grosse Fugue said:


> Would 5 be too early?


No way! You never know when passion is going to strike. So many people that are truly blessed to find their passion and do it for a living find it so early in their life. CHECK THIS AMAZING VIDEO OUT:






Tell me this kid doesn't feel the passion. And he's 3! I have watched this so many times and it brings me such joy and tears me up. I love when I see someone this age seemingly feel what I feel. And, I lose my ***** at the same moment he does. You are never too young. You can get too old, because if you wait until they are that age with peer pressure they might close themselves off to it completely.

You're a great parent for wanting to expose your kids to different things. They may hate opera, but at least they were exposed to it.

Classical music didn't become a passion to me until I was 26. I dabbled in it for years (probably 14-26) but it wasn't until I discovered Mozart that it became a full blooded passion, and that passion has brought me to love composers I had a mild interest in before. If I had discovered this passion earlier, I would be in music today instead of finance.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'd say 13-15 or so. I wouldn't have appreciated opera at all before at least then.


Yes, but then they are know-it-all teenagers. I say earlier when they are still open to things and not clouded by peer pressure and what they think they should like based on their peers.


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## ugen64 (Feb 7, 2019)

gellio said:


> Yes, but then they are know-it-all teenagers. I say earlier when they are still open to things and not clouded by peer pressure and what they think they should like based on their peers.


That's actually around the age I started really appreciating classical music (opera came later mostly due to lack of exposure) - I started playing piano at age 3 but it was one of those things that my parents just made me do, and I hated practicing, like most kids I think. I went to a summer camp at age 14 for an unrelated subject, but we roomed together and had activities with the performing arts students. Talking to them and their passion for music kind of changed my whole perspective - actually I remember 1 specific conversation I was having in a common area, I was talking to a cellist and she talked about her favorite piece, Brahms Cello Sonata No. 1. I borrowed the CD from the music library, listened to it and it became one of my favorite pieces.

I also remember going to a concert at the SF Symphony Hall earlier this year. This elementary school aged kid was sitting next to me with her dad, and she was completely enraptured by the entire performance. My parents took me to concerts at that age too but I was usually completely bored. (I did, on the other hand, see another couple bring their middle / high school aged kids to expensive orchestra seats of the Met's Pelleas et Melisande, which was a bold move... the whole family left at the 2nd intermission)


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

ugen64 said:


> That's actually around the age I started really appreciating classical music (opera came later mostly due to lack of exposure) - I started playing piano at age 3 but it was one of those things that my parents just made me do, and I hated practicing, like most kids I think. I went to a summer camp at age 14 for an unrelated subject, but we roomed together and had activities with the performing arts students. Talking to them and their passion for music kind of changed my whole perspective - actually I remember 1 specific conversation I was having in a common area, I was talking to a cellist and she talked about her favorite piece, Brahms Cello Sonata No. 1. I borrowed the CD from the music library, listened to it and it became one of my favorite pieces.
> 
> I also remember going to a concert at the SF Symphony Hall earlier this year. This elementary school aged kid was sitting next to me with her dad, and she was completely enraptured by the entire performance. My parents took me to concerts at that age too but I was usually completely bored. (I did, on the other hand, see another couple bring their middle / high school aged kids to expensive orchestra seats of the Met's Pelleas et Melisande, which was a bold move... the whole family left at the 2nd intermission)


It is around the age I started to appreciate classical music, too. I also didn't really dive into and fall in love with opera until I was 26. We have that in common. I wonder if we also have the fact that we were outsiders/outcasts when we were teenagers, too? I think for me that made a difference, because instead of people I was looking for other things to keep me company, and I didn't really have the peer pressures other kids did because from 7th to 10th grade I was basically isolated. I had no friends. Not trying to get anyone to feel sad for me. It just is what it is, and it was really a blessing and a curse, because I feel I was so open to other things because of living in my own little world for 4 years. Things turned around in 10th grade when other kids (and me) started to grow up.

Do you live in SF, too?

I do, however, envy any young kid who can find a passion at a young age. We see it every where - musicians, gymnasts, figure skaters, dancers. It's every where, and if you are lucky enough to be exposed at such a young age then you can really have a smashing career out of it. When I think about that 3 year old conducting Beethoven's 5th in the video I posted above, I am so envious, because he feels something at 3 that I didn't feel until I was 26. It was lack of exposure.

Since I was a teen, I dabbled in Tchaikovsky and other Russian composers (my step dad liked them). Then in my early 20s I discovered Verdi and Puccini. I dabbed a bit, but I certainly wasn't enraptured. When I was 26, three friends and I always got together to watch a movie once a week. We each took turns bringing a movie. One night, one of my friends brought _Amadeus_. It was her favorite movie. My first thought was, "damn, this is going to be so boring." I was big into musical theater then (still am). I had really never focused on Mozart's music before that night. I was in love. Instantly and madly. It was like nothing I had ever experienced. I had such an emotional connection to music like never before. The next day I was at the downtown Minneapolis Barnes & Noble (they had a huge classical music section) buying _Entfuhrung_. A week later, I went back and bought _Figaro_. I literally listened to nothing but _Figaro_ for months and months. It only ended when I bought _Don Giovanni_, which I then only listened to for months. To this day, they are still my favorite two operas. Mozart opened a whole world for me. He turned a mild interest into a full blown passion, and through him I fell in love with Puccini, and Verdi, and countless other composers. I'm so grateful to her for bringing _Amadeus_ that night. That night literally changed my life. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I was exposed to Mozart at 3. Maybe nothing, but maybe something.

Side note: While I am grateful to _Amadeus_ for bringing music to the masses, I now have a huge chip on my shoulder about it. I didn't know, when I first saw it, what was accurate and what wasn't. Peter Shaffer turned one of the greatest composers into a cheater and a buffoon, and destroyed a forgotten composer whom should have never been forgotten - Salieri. I'm not sure if I can forgive him for that.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

gellio said:


> Side note: While I am grateful to _Amadeus_ for bringing music to the masses, I now have a huge chip on my shoulder about it. I didn't know, when I first saw it, what was accurate and what wasn't. Peter Shaffer turned one of the greatest composers into a cheater and a buffoon, and destroyed a forgotten composer whom should have never been forgotten - Salieri. I'm not sure if I can forgive him for that.


The play, like the film, is framed as the ramblings of a confused, senile Salieri, over 30 years after Mozart died. It was not intended to be taken as a biography.

Curiously that would be less than a decade before Pushkin's play _Mozart and Salieri_ (Мо́царт и Салье́ри) was written. I in no way believe Salieri murdered Mozart, but in the world of Shaffer's play the Pushkin play that inspired it could be seen as part of the story.

I also might note that there has been, in the 40 years since Shaffer's play came out, an at least modest revival of interest in Salieri's works, with many of his operas getting modern premieres since the play (and the film).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Play or no play, Mozart was a true potty-mouth!


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

mountmccabe said:


> I also might note that there has been, in the 40 years since Shaffer's play came out, an at least modest revival of interest in Salieri's works, with many of his operas getting modern premieres since the play (and the film).


Yes, I am so grateful for that. We have seen several high quality recordings of his operas come out and I have them all, and I love them.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I'd say as soon as they can read fluently and quickly so they can follow subtitles. And don't just stick to fairtytale operas. Kids are bloodthirsty little [email protected] and they would certainly enjoy some operatic murder.


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