# Sibelius in brackets!



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Idea from another thread: Specify one Sibelius symphony. Then name a symphony by another composer that you think is better, even if by just a little. Then one you think is worse. Well-known symphonies if possible.

Please interpret "better" and "worse" to mean simply that you like it more, or less. 

(thanks bones...)


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

I struggled with picking two other symphonies, as they could have been _much_ worse or _much_ better. But I decided to take the plain meaning of your instructions, to rather not think too hard about it, and just post two symphonies that first come to mind to fit the proposed distinctions.

Tchaikovsky's 4th < Sibelius 7th < Schubert's 4th


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Mahler #3 > Sibelius #5 > Schumann #1


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Avey said:


> Tchaikovsky's 4th < Sibelius 7th < Schubert's 4th


 You're saying the Schubert's 4th is better than Tchaikovsky's 4th, with Sibelius #7 in the middle, right? Just checking...probably an unusual view.


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## mgj15 (Feb 17, 2011)

Beethoven 6 > Sibelius 3 > Shostakovich 4


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I'll challenge myself by making them all the same number.

Mahler 7 > Sibelius 7 > Bruckner 7


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

mmmmmmmm tough one.........

segerstam's 212th > Sibelius 3rd > Edgard Varèse La Chanson des jeunes hommes


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> You're saying the Schubert's 4th is better than Tchaikovsky's 4th, with Sibelius #7 in the middle, right? Just checking...probably an unusual view.


Yesss. I realize that's probably unusual, but I'm a biiig fan of Schubert's 4th - highly underrated IMO.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I'll challenge myself by making them all the same number.
> 
> Mahler 7 > Sibelius 7 > Bruckner 7


One, I like this idea, sticking with a single number.

Two, is this you expressing your appreciation for Sibelius's 7th, or not so much liking Bruckner's 7th?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Sticking with a single number:

Beethoven 3 > Sibelius 3 > Shostakovich 3

That was too easy...


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Dvorak 8 > Sibelius 5 > Dvorak 7


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

All of *Sibelius's* symphonies > all the rest. ut:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> segerstam's 212th > Sibelius 3rd


HOW DARE YOU :scold:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> HOW DARE YOU :scold:


Oh my mistake lol 

Edgard Varèse La Chanson des jeunes hommes > Sibelius 3rd > Segerstam's 212th

When your 130, sometimes you get forgetful ..........


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Oh my mistake lol
> 
> Edgard Varèse La Chanson des jeunes hommes > Sibelius 3rd > Segerstam's 212th
> 
> When your 130, sometimes you get forgetful ..........


Better but still....*Sibelius*(!!!!!!!!!!) is better than Varèse.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Thats as good as I can stretch it ^


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

So for reference: Better < Sibelius > Worse

Mahler 4 > Sibelius 4 > Bruckner 4

/ptr


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

I'll give this a try as well:

Vaughan Williams 8 > Sibelius 8 > Segerstam 8


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Mahler 6 > Sibelius 6 > Shostakovich 6


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Avey said:


> One, I like this idea, sticking with a single number.
> 
> Two, is this you expressing your appreciation for Sibelius's 7th, or not so much liking Bruckner's 7th?


I like Bruckner's 7th fine, but among his symphonies, I'd take 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9 before it. Sibelius's 7th is one of his most unique achievements.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Take two:

Shostakovich Unity Waltz > Sibelius Valse Triste > J. Strauss II Accelerationen Waltz

/ptr


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Berlioz 1 (SF) > Sibelius 1 > Beethoven 1
Brahms 2 > Sibelius 2 > Schumann 2
Mendelssohn 3 > Sibelius 3 > Tchaikovsky 3
Mahler 4 > Sibelius 4 > Schubert 4
Shostakovich 5 > Sibelius 5 > Bruckner 5
Myaskovsky 6 > Sibelius 6 > Vaughan Williams 6
Dvorak 7 > Sibelius 7 > Prokofiev 7

That's 14 different symphonies composers to compare with Sibelius.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Beethoven 3 > Sibelius 3 > Tchaikovsky 3


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

There are no better ones, so

Sibelius 1-7
Beethoven 7
Beethoven 9
Tchaikovsky 6
Haydn 1-10X

Sorry, none of the numbers match. Not the same language.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

none>Sibelius 7>Haydn7


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

Beethoven 5 > Sibelius 5 > Shostakovich 5

This is fun! One more for the road:

Tchaikovsky 6 > Sibelius 6 > Bruckner 6


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Segerstam > Sibelius > (uh, let me think...)


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

All this talk of Sibelius symphonies has me wondering...

I'm quite familiar with Sibelius's symphonies, along with his quartet, violin concerto, _Valse Triste_, _Finlandia_. However, if I were to expand from there, in what direction would one point me?


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

Mahler 2 > Sibelius 2 >= Beethoven 2 

This was a hard one. Beethoven's 2nd is one of my favorites of the form, but the Sibelius 2 is one of his highest achievements. So I'm not sure.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Any Jean Sibelius symphony is less than Carl Nielsen, Symphony No. 5 
(Remaining within the conservative / late romantic 'classical' symphonist vein.... going outside of that parameter makes even less sense -- it would be apples vs. oranges, yet again -- than the OP does to begin with


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Avey said:


> All this talk of Sibelius symphonies has me wondering...
> 
> I'm quite familiar with Sibelius's symphonies, along with his quartet, violin concerto, _Valse Triste_, _Finlandia_. However, if I were to expand from there, in what direction would one point me?


Tapiola! Lemminkäinen! Karelia!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

SottoVoce said:


> Mahler 2 > Sibelius 2 >= Beethoven 2
> 
> This was a hard one. Beethoven's 2nd is one of my favorites of the form, but the Sibelius 2 is one of his highest achievements. So I'm not sure.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGRRRHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I'm. Doing. My. Best. Not. To. Strangle. You.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Hey CoaG,

I wonder if there's a way to bracket Sibelius between Mendelssohn and Ligeti?

Would it be difficult to do?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Kieran said:


> Hey CoaG,
> 
> I wonder if there's a way to bracket Sibelius between Mendelssohn and Ligeti?
> 
> Would it be difficult to do?


Factually impossible.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Factually impossible.


I just see that - Ligeti never wrote a symphony! Harrummph! And I never wrote one either. Pah!


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Factually impossible.


I think You could!! It needn't be a Symphony!

Ligeti - Lux Aeterna > Sibelius - Jordens sång (Song of the Earth) > Mendelssohn - Te Deum in D

/ptr


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

ptr said:


> I think You could!! It needn't be a Symphony!
> 
> Ligeti - Lux Aeterna > Sibelius - Jordens sång (Song of the Earth) > Mendelssohn - Te Deum in D
> 
> /ptr


Three or four months ago this would have been my favourite post.


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

Lemminkäinen> Peer Gynt


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Better but still....*Sibelius*(!!!!!!!!!!) is better than Varèse.


You jest me with your silly Sibelius, it's gotta be musique concrète for me "I dream of instruments obedient to my thought and which, with their contribution of a whole new world of unsuspected sounds, will lend themselves to the exigencies of my inner rhythm."


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> You jest me with your silly Sibelius, it's gotta be musique concrète for me "I dream of instruments obedient to my thought and which, with their contribution of a whole new world of unsuspected sounds, will lend themselves to the exigencies of my inner rhythm."


I like _Poème Electronique_


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