# Audience noisemongers



## Guest

"Poor audience behaviour has ruined a great many concerts in my experience"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30327567

I've not been to many classical concerts but already I'm thinking it's like going to the cinema, insofar as audience members often seem to behave as if they're in a private, not public place:

_I've come to listen to the music, not the rustling of sweet wrappers._

If I had a cough I'D stay at home.

Thoughts?....


----------



## The nose

> "Whether I make them or not, there are always sounds to be heard and all of them are excellent."


John Cage would have loved the cough.


----------



## Figleaf

It sounds like some audience members (or performers in this case) are being way too uptight. If you have a coughing fit at a concert or your child does, you leave the room until you or the child are better. While you are making your way out, there should not be glares, nasty remarks etc: who are these people who think that a cough is a deliberate heckle? 

I once knew a guy who was an aspiring concert pianist, and who said that his dream was to make classical concerts as relaxed as pop concerts are. He now works for the UN, so I guess he's given up on his former project. Too bad.


----------



## hpowders

I no longer attend live concerts anymore due to boorish audience behavior: snoring, turning program pages loudly during the music, monopolizing the armrest, loud hum from hearing aids and of course, the incessant coughing that never seems to end and is especially obnoxious during a beautiful soft passage, that of course gets completely ruined.


----------



## Ingélou

I've been lucky in that most of the live musical events I've attended have not been spoiled by audience noise. There was one opera that I went to see, though, where I was seated next to a couple - I'd talked to the wife - and during the performance, the husband kept joining in the well-known arias by humming the tune in a dirgy whisper. I kept turning to look at him, and every so often the wife would try to shut him up. The arrogance and thick skin of the husband - trying to show off that he knew the tunes - was absolutely maddening!


----------



## Guest

hpowders said:


> I no longer attend live concerts anymore due to boorish audience behavior: snoring, turning program pages loudly during the music, monopolizing the armrest, loud hum from hearing aids and of course, the incessant coughing that never seems to end and is especially obnoxious during a beautiful soft passage, that of course gets completely ruined.


Oh dear and I've just started attending!
The hearing aid was a new one on me, I couldn't work out what it was; I thought aliens were trying to communicate with me.

WHY does anyone need to rustle wrappers and eat sweets non-stop throughout the WHOLE performance. Sorry, but that is just plain selfish, rude, inconsiderate.

At a cinema once I asked a person in front if the dialogue was spoiling their chewing. After the glare, she stopped.


----------



## pianississimo

Hummers annoy me. Yes I know you know the tune. I know it too but I'd rather hear the orchestra play it than you!!
Sweet wrapper rustlers are annoying too. As if you can't wait until the end of the movement for a mint!
Worst of all was a woman who didn't like the opening piece of the concert which was Ives's Unanswered Question. She decided to answer the question in the negative - loudly during the piece. Evidently she doesn't like this kind of rubbish.

Still, most audiences behave pretty well. I heard the story today of Violinist Kyung-Wha Chung who snapped at a child for coughing at a concert. Great way to attract new audiences....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30327567


----------



## pianississimo

gog said:


> Oh dear and I've just started attending!
> The hearing aid was a new one on me, I couldn't work out what it was; I thought aliens were trying to communicate with me.
> 
> WHY does anyone need to rustle wrappers and eat sweets non-stop throughout the WHOLE performance. Sorry, but that is just plain selfish, rude, inconsiderate.
> 
> At a cinema once I asked a person in front if the dialogue was spoiling their chewing. After the glare, she stopped.


I think the hearing aid problem is interference from narby mobile phones. If everyone switched them off then perhaps they wouldn't hum. I've been told the difference for the listener wearing the device when all mobiles is off is striking. 
They are getting the worst of the humming right into their ears and really can't do much about it.


----------



## hpowders

gog said:


> Oh dear and I've just started attending!
> The hearing aid was a new one on me, I couldn't work out what it was; I thought aliens were trying to communicate with me.
> 
> WHY does anyone need to rustle wrappers and eat sweets non-stop throughout the WHOLE performance. Sorry, but that is just plain selfish, rude, inconsiderate.
> 
> At a cinema once I asked a person in front if the dialogue was spoiling their chewing. After the glare, she stopped.


Well you may be luckier than I. It's the coughing that drives me nuts and they always wait for the most beautiful soft passages to do it. As a person who tries to think logically, I ask, why do they even bother attending? Surely there must be something good on the telly they would enjoy more.


----------



## hpowders

Other things that bothered me were the head swayers who always seemed to be sitting in front of me and the shoe stamping time beaters who always seemed to be next to me. This is why I used to get an isle seat. It cut potential offenders down 50%.


----------



## Haydn man

pianississimo said:


> Hummers annoy me. Yes I know you know the tune. I know it too but I'd rather hear the orchestra play it than you!!
> Sweet wrapper rustlers are annoying too. As if you can't wait until the end of the movement for a mint!
> Worst of all was a woman who didn't like the opening piece of the concert which was Ives's Unanswered Question. She decided to answer the question in the negative - loudly during the piece. Evidently she doesn't like this kind of rubbish.
> 
> Still, most audiences behave pretty well. I heard the story today of Violinist Kyung-Wha Chung who snapped at a child for coughing at a concert. Great way to attract new audiences....
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30327567


2 weeks ago my wife and I saw Kyung-Wha Chung perform those same works in Liverpool
She gave a couple of people in the audience a sharp look that evening, if they coughed at unfortunate moments. She gave us the impression she was nervous and in fairness she has been away for a long time and perhaps felt there was a lot riding on her performances.
Having read the reviews of the London concert this week, I would agree that she seemed most at home and at one in the Franck Sonata, which in our humble opinion was magical.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kyung-Wha Chung is a codger (66). It was a finger for a decade, and now it's the brain. Time to pack it in.


----------



## KenOC

Vaneyes said:


> Kyung-Wha Chung is a codger (66).


Who you callin' a codger, sprout? There may be snow on the roof, but there's fire in the furnace!


----------



## Radames

Ingélou said:


> I've been lucky in that most of the live musical events I've attended have not been spoiled by audience noise. There was one opera that I went to see, though, where I was seated next to a couple - I'd talked to the wife - and during the performance, the husband kept joining in the well-known arias by humming the tune in a dirgy whisper. I kept turning to look at him, and every so often the wife would try to shut him up. The arrogance and thick skin of the husband - trying to show off that he knew the tunes - was absolutely maddening!


THAT is the thing that bothers me the most. It doesn't happen very often though.

In Montreal at the symphony there are big bins full of cough drops outside the hall. I have not seen that at any other venue.


----------



## nightscape

A few weeks ago I sat next to a guy who was chewing gum. CHEWING GUM. It's one of those things that once you focus on it, you can't unfocus on it. During the break between the first and second movements of Respighi's 'Botticelli Triptych' I tilted my head without looking at him and said "can you please take the gum out of your mouth?". He leaned toward me so I met his eyes. He gave me a nice enough smile and muttered something in what I thought was clear acknowledgment. He stopped for about 10 minutes before starting up again. He was off and on (a bit better after intermission), but never spit it out into a tissue/napkin like I expected.

Serious jerk behavior. I didn't have the nerve to say something to him again, and what else was I going to do, get him kicked out by an usher? Even worse were his attempts to talk to me like he wasn't being obnoxious. After I started clapping right after the end of Stravinsky's Violin Concerto he got my attention and asked, "Do you know this?". Yes. "Do you play?", gesturing to the stage. No. Dude, don't talk to me with that stupid gum still in your stupid mouth!


----------



## KenOC

Sounds almost like cabin fever! There are stories about people being snowed in for the winter, and pretty soon each is ready to commit mayhem on the other. An irritating way of clearing the throat, drumming of the fingers, or whatever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_fever


----------



## DonAlfonso

hpowders said:


> Well you may be luckier than I. It's the coughing that drives me nuts and they always wait for the most beautiful soft passages to do it. As a person who tries to think logically, I ask, why do they even bother attending? Surely there must be something good on the telly they would enjoy more.


I'm not sure you are thinking logically. If you'd paid say $80 for a concert ticket six months ago and had a slight cold/cough on the night wouldn't you attend? I'm not talking about those obviously ill people having constant coughing fits who shouldn't be going anywhere in public.
Unsure how the telly jibe applies, if they preferred telly they wouldn't be at the concert and it sounds like they're enjoying the concert more than you are.
The voluntary boorish behaviour - paper rustling, humming, talking, mobile phones etc- bothers me a lot more. Had someone texting through an entire concert recently. Even if it's not audible it is distracting.


----------



## papsrus

Coincidentally, I was reading last night an article on the Baltimore Sun web site written by a reviewer bemoaning audience behavior at two recent concerts he had attended.

At one concert, a couple in front of him kept whispering and giggling to one another through the performance, the fidgety woman's bracelets clinking and clanking away with each twitch and wiggle; at another, one person in front of the reviewer and a second person behind him were both humming along with the music. (I don't think this would bother me as much, really, as it at least shows the person is involved with the music. I'd rather someone be interested in the music and humming along than disinterested and rattling their jewelry.)

But this kind of behavior is pretty much just a symptom of inconsiderate and rude behavior across society. (I can't believe I just wrote that sentence, but it's true. I guess I'm now officially a curmudgeon.)

As for the incessant coughing -- it really shouldn't be that difficult to suppress a cough, or at least wait until the music is roaring so no one notices. I actually kind of appreciate the chorus of coughs that burst forth between movements. It shows that these folks have some consideration for their fellow listeners by waiting for a pause in the music.

Back row center, dress circle (or back row any level) is your best bet for uninterrupted listening, as noises from behind are more distracting than noises from in front. (A candy junkie continually rustling though their stash or the BFFs who can't go a few hours without constantly whispering to one another right behind you should be invitation enough for you to stand up -- STAND UP -- turn around and shush them in no uncertain terms.

There. I feel better.

Another view: "Concert Goers, Please Clap, Talk or Shout at Any Time" (NYT)


----------



## Wood

I often have a tendency to laugh hard at concerts. Holding the laugh in, my shoulders go up and down in silent mirth, Ted Heath style. Sitting near the front once, my companion and I actually caused a performer to restart a song, at a non-classical concert.

My experience is very different from the complainants above. I'm not put off by the audience noise, and find it part of the atmosphere of a live performance. I can easily listen in silence at home, so when I go to a concert I'm looking for something different in any case. 

People who have health problems should not be expected to stay at home and watch tele, it is very selfish to suggest that. Indeed, it is quite the opposite. People with ailments should get out and about rather than moping at home.

I do not hum or rustle sweet wrappers, though neither of these things trouble me. However, I've had a cough for several years and a condition which occasionally causes me to sleep during a concert. I will not allow the offence I may cause to uptight people to prevent me from attending concerts.

So there.


----------



## papsrus

Wood said:


> I often have a tendency to laugh hard at concerts. Holding the laugh in, my shoulders go up and down in silent mirth, Ted Heath style. Sitting near the front once, my companion and I actually caused a performer to restart a song, at a non-classical concert.
> 
> (...)
> 
> People who have health problems should not be expected to stay at home and watch tele, it is very selfish to suggest that. Indeed, it is quite the opposite. People with ailments should get out and about rather than moping at home.
> 
> (...)
> 
> So there.


When someone's behavior forces a performer to start over, that's clearly disruptive. Sorry.

And those who have health problems -- particularly health problems that they may be spread through excessive coughing -- certainly should consider not exposing other people to their illnesses. That doesn't mean staying at home and not enjoying life. It means simply, be considerate. Bring a handkerchief or something to cough into.

The measure shouldn't be, "It doesn't bother me, so get over it." The measure probably should be something like, "Am I bothering others with my behavior? If so, maybe I should take that into consideration."

Maybe.


----------



## Vaneyes

It's not as much of a *health* problem, as it is a *stupid* problem.


----------



## Wood

I'm reading this thread, and the silent mirth has come on again. I can't help it.

Tell me some more things that annoy you in the concert hall. Don't hold back.

Meanwhile, I'll try to grow up....


----------



## Bellinilover

hpowders said:


> Well you may be luckier than I. It's the coughing that drives me nuts *and they always wait for the most beautiful soft passages to do it.* As a person who tries to think logically, I ask, why do they even bother attending? Surely there must be something good on the telly they would enjoy more.


The part in bold has baffled me for years. Sadly, I don't think it was much better even a few decades ago, because I've just been listening to a live recording of a certain opera singer's recital from the mid-1980's, and guess what's clearly audible during all of the soft passages? Yes, coughing.


----------



## hpowders

Bellinilover said:


> The part in bold has baffled me for years. Sadly, I don't think it was much better even a few decades ago, because I've just been listening to a live recording of a certain opera singer's recital from the mid-1980's, and guess what's clearly audible during all of the soft passages? Yes, coughing.


Whenever I went to the Met to hear Walküre or Götterdämmerung, at the very soft endings of the opera, those insensitive clowns would always burst in with applause completely spoiling the beautiful endings of those operas for those of us who actually came to HEAR the marvelous music!! Damn them!! The ushers should find out who the offenders are, submit their names to the subscription department so they can be forever banned from the Met!!


----------



## papsrus

Heard a reference on my local classical radio station this afternoon to Bernstein suffering from emphysema and during the last concert he conducted the poor guy had a coughing fit that he couldn't stop. Almost had to stop the performance, apparently. Coughed most of the way through the concert.

That's a serious deal, not funny at all, but I couldn't help but think of this thread and the irony of it happening to Bernstein.

I wonder if he knew it was his last concert, and that's why he persevered, or if the coughing fit was sort of the last straw for him?


----------



## pianississimo

Applauding between movements...

I know it's an old chestnut, but it seems to provoke strong reactions from people at concerts.
I like to think that sometimes at least, it happens because people in the audience feel moved to applaud what they've just heard. They're so taken with it that they can't hold themselves in any more.

The cynic in me will point out that it tends to happen with certain pieces and it doesn't often seem to matter how good or bad the performance. 
Tchaikovsky is a "clap trap" master. His Pathetique symphony, Violin concerto and first piano concerto all often move audiences to applaud after the first movement. it could be that his love for long first movements with dramatic endings just confuse less knowledgeable audiences. Perhaps he knew that this would happen and gleefully set out to trap unwary western concert-goers? If so then I applaud him (at the appropriate time of course)

I've watched the musicians when this happens and nearly every time they are smiling that secret smile of someone who knows every note of the score and never, ever claps at the wrong place themselves. They don't get upset by it so I don't either.

On thursday though, I heard a first. There was a smattering of applause at the end of the first movement of Rachmaninov's third piano concerto. I'd have thought that piece too famous for that kind of thing. It was a fantastic performance but was that the reason? Doesn't everyone know Rachmaninov 3 inside out? People near me were tutted loundly in response (which is far more annoying than a little applause!) 

Has anyone else heard anything similar where it wasn't expected?


----------



## elgar's ghost

If anyone hates applause between movements then DON'T listen to the live recording of the Shostakovich ballet The Golden Age on the Russian Disc label, where applause follows after nearly every track (most of which are quite short) throughout the whole two hours. I still wouldn't like to say whether it was recorded at an actual theatre rather than the Stade Roland Garros.


----------



## PetrB

hpowders said:


> Other things that bothered me were the head swayers who always seemed to be sitting in front of me and the shoe stamping time beaters who always seemed to be next to me. This is why I used to get an isle seat. It cut potential offenders down 50%.


Isle seat? Interesting!

Are they very expensive?


----------



## SilverSurfer

How about taking for granted coughs, laughs and even a mobile sounding?

This version of Tom Johnson's *Failing*, first I hear in Italian (hope some of you can understand it) has the funniest final (when the author leaves time for improvisation) ever:


----------



## Guest

Coughing, using a cell phone, and applauding before the piece ends (or between movements) can spoil a concert for me.


----------



## perempe

a young alto coughed during the performance of Dvorak's 9th on Monday in Miskolc.
http://mso.hu/hu/zenekar/zenekari-tagok/pinter-zita
the link is for the looks.

Yesterday I saw Kodály's Háry János, many loud coughs from the audience. the audience ruined some (mainly quiet) parts with clapping.

the Monday before last I saw Sibelius's violin concerto with Alexandra Conunova & Christian Badea. the audience was silent! an alto cried during the encore of the soloist. people coughed between movements.


----------



## papsrus

perempe said:


> a young alto coughed during the performance of Dvorak's 9th on Monday in Miskolc.
> http://mso.hu/hu/zenekar/zenekari-tagok/pinter-zita
> the link is for the looks.
> 
> Yesterday I saw Kodály's Háry János, many loud coughs from the audience. the audience ruined some (mainly quiet) parts with clapping.
> 
> the Monday before last I saw Sibelius's violin concerto with Alexandra Conunova & Christian Badea. the audience was silent! an alto cried during the encore of the soloist. people coughed between movements.


Well, one out of three ain't bad.

I tend to think that the attentiveness of an audience (and therefore the relative quiet) directly relates to the quality of the performance. A great orchestra in a great setting playing great music tends to get people's attention. A less compelling performance tends to have people distracted.

Even within a concert, some pieces can be more compelling than others and therefore tend to grab the attention of the audience.

General observation that obviously doesn't hold in all instances.


----------



## perempe

papsrus said:


> I tend to think that the attentiveness of an audience (and therefore the relative quiet) directly relates to the quality of the performance. A great orchestra in a great setting playing great music tends to get people's attention. A less compelling performance tends to have people distracted.
> 
> Even within a concert, some pieces can be more compelling than others and therefore tend to grab the attention of the audience.
> 
> General observation that obviously doesn't hold in all instances.


I agree! _______


----------



## Vaneyes

Another unruly episode is noted. This time in Hong Kong.

http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/arts-...aimed-premature-applauders-who-disrupt-german


----------



## Vaneyes

Idiot concertgoers aka stage invaders are now doing selfies. 

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mu...nvasions-hasnt-dvorak-suffered-enough-already


----------



## gHeadphone

hpowders said:


> Other things that bothered me were the head swayers who always seemed to be sitting in front of me and the shoe stamping time beaters who always seemed to be next to me. This is why I used to get an isle seat. It cut potential offenders down 50%.


I am definitely a head mover, i cant help move if the music is moving me. I really try to keep still but its incredibly difficult. it drives our Choral conductor mad, i even move a little during Choral competitions, I have tried everything.

Maybe sitting at the back is best for me


----------



## MoonlightSonata

It seems that people cough a lot during concerts, but much less during competitions. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## Guest

At the last concert I went to (a piano recital) it was performed in rapt silence. 
Either that or I've gone deaf.


----------



## TwoPhotons

I once attended a piano recital at Wigmore Hall, where a guy sitting behind me not only seemed to have a never-ending supply of beer but WOULD NOT SHUT UP talking to his friend about what section has just finished and what section is about to start, when the dramatic moments were going to come up, when the ending was about to occur, and he would often accompany his insightful analyses with an imitation of the pianist's hands in the air...At one point I was going to turn to him and say "Coming up right now is the section where I punch in your face" but I decided that that and the inevitable disruption and lawsuits were not worth the trouble and that I came here to listen to good music, after all.

For some reason it drives me mad when I see people hand-waving their knowledge of the piece to friends or family members during the performance, as if they were the main spectacle of the recital. I know it's tempting to some but please...just listen to what you've paid for!


----------



## Guest

OK there'd have been trouble but that was a great line to deliver. Worth doing time for!


----------



## Lukecash12

Figleaf said:


> It sounds like some audience members (or performers in this case) are being way too uptight. If you have a coughing fit at a concert or your child does, you leave the room until you or the child are better. While you are making your way out, there should not be glares, nasty remarks etc: who are these people who think that a cough is a deliberate heckle?
> 
> I once knew a guy who was an aspiring concert pianist, and who said that his dream was to make classical concerts as relaxed as pop concerts are. He now works for the UN, so I guess he's given up on his former project. Too bad.


This is something we can learn from Hindustani/Carnatic classical musicians. When they give concerts it is a much more relaxed, and intimate, atmosphere where dialogue even occurs between the performers and the audience. I have found this kind of setting very pleasant myself.






i) "_Sanandam Nandi Hasta Hatha Murajhara_..."; and (ii) "_Omkar Panjar Shukim Upanishad_..."

At the beginning Sri Rahim Dagar leads a heartfelt Sanskrit prayer with his audience, invoking Vedic scripture in a conversational but poetic manner, before he gives an austere and unassumingly technical (full of microtonal oscillations and glissandi) dhrupad performance. The sadly deceased Dagar brothers are practically deified now in the dhrupad tradition, and it's not uncommon at all to hear the audience in their recordings.


----------



## CyrilWashbrook

A concert I went to late last year:



CyrilWashbrook said:


> [T]he audience were poorly behaved. The amount of noise between movements and, for that matter, during the movements was embarrassing.
> 
> At the end of the first movement of the Sibelius, one young audience member felt the need to let fly with a "WOOOO!" cheer. By about the halfway mark of the Beethoven, I think most audience members had cottoned onto the fact that applause between movements isn't generally the done thing, but a couple of people decided to clap ostentatiously anyway.
> 
> A few rows away from where I was sitting, there was a man who felt the need to hum and talk constantly through the Beethoven. And just to outdo all of that, some other man let out a massive shriek in the middle of a quiet passage.


The audience behaviour also attracted some adverse comment in a published review.



> [On the Sibelius:] The audience launched into spontaneous applause between movements, causing Zimmermann to cast an amusingly sardonic eye over the offenders.
> 
> [On the Beethoven:] The solitary cry of a constipated lunatic echoed across the hall during the sombre funeral march, visibly startling members of the orchestra, not to mention the audience.


----------



## breakup

My music professor in college told a story about he and a friend attending one of the Rossini comic Operas. They both understood the language and were laughing at the jokes, and getting dirty looks from other audience members, who didn't seem to have any idea of what was being said in the Opera.


----------



## Albert7

I disagree... I don't believe that classical music concerts should be about silence unless it's Morton Feldman.

I believe that classical music should be like a football game. Rallying with passion. Excitement. Classical music performance isn't a church service.

In fact, we should allow people to toss beer and sushi at soloists they dislike. j/k


----------



## elgar's ghost

Albert7 said:


> I disagree... I don't believe that classical music concerts should be about silence unless it's Morton Feldman.
> 
> I believe that classical music should be like a football game. Rallying with passion. Excitement. Classical music performance isn't a church service.
> 
> In fact, we should allow people to toss beer and sushi at soloists they dislike. j/k


Imagine trying to play Mahler's 3rd when there would be commercial breaks every five minutes.


----------



## Albert7

elgars ghost said:


> Imagine trying to play Mahler's 3rd when there would be commercial breaks every five minutes.


And now a word from our sponsor for this beloved series.

Personally I am a quiet guy during concerts. I like to be on the sidelines watching other peeps blurt and make the noises.


----------



## Avey

I know this has been complained of here and beyond, but I feel the need to reiterate:

*Head bobbing, weaving, nodding is so obnoxious.* I do it in my free time, sure. But when I attend concerts, I do my best to respect others' viewing and experiencing the music, as I hope others do for me. So, when I see people in front of me tossing their heads around in the coda, I cannot help but get distracted and pulled from the performing elements on stage. In many ways, it reeks of pride; just because you know the rhythm, you _have_ to move with it, outwardly and pronounced. C'mon, no know cares. In fact, no one appreciates it.

We all get _into_ sounds, but we do not need to physically exhibit it in public, especially when we are so close together and someone's skull is in my foreground, rather than an instrument.


----------



## papsrus

Avey said:


> I know this has been complained of here and beyond, but I feel the need to reiterate:
> 
> *Head bobbing, weaving, nodding is so obnoxious.* I do it in my free time, sure. But when I attend concerts, I do my best to respect others' viewing and experiencing the music, as I hope others do for me. So, when I see people in front of me tossing their heads around in the coda, I cannot help but get distracted and pulled from the performing elements on stage. In many ways, it reeks of pride; just because you know the rhythm, you _have_ to move with it, outwardly and pronounced. C'mon, no know cares. In fact, no one appreciates it.
> 
> We all get _into_ sounds, but we do not need to physically exhibit it in public, especially when we are so close together and someone's skull is in my foreground, rather than an instrument.


I sympathise. We all go to performances hoping for an enjoyable experience where _the music_ is front and center, not the idiosyncrasies of the audience, whether it be head bobbing, air conducting, program rustling, coughing, or general body rubbing (yes, I once sat next to a woman who began to embrace and caress herself as the music played. Wool knit fabric can be surprisingly loud). 

There's another thread here about overly demonstrative conductors; some people view these conductors as a major annoyance, whirling dervishes who destroy the concert experience.

Point is, there are a lot of things that can go on in a concert hall, an acoustically sensitive environment filled with other human beings. But there are various strategies for mitigating all these distractions. Basically, closer is better; if you're getting the full Monty from an orchestra from your fifth-row center seat, you're not going to notice the guy coughing in the back of the balcony too much.

I've got sort of a rule of thirds: If you go to 30 concerts in a year, about 10 of them are going to be wonderful experiences with beautiful music and attentive audiences; 10 are going to be a mixed bag; and 10 are going to be just annoying experiences, whatever your criteria are for that.

YMMV


----------



## Guest

papsrus said:


> I've got sort of a rule of thirds: If you go to 30 concerts in a year, about 10 of them are going to be wonderful experiences with beautiful music and attentive audiences; 10 are going to be a mixed bag; and 10 are going to be just annoying experiences, whatever your criteria are for that.


Goodness that's a depressingly high annoyance percentage.


----------



## papsrus

dogen said:


> Goodness that's a depressingly high annoyance percentage.


Well, perhaps "annoying" is overstating it.

Lets say that with a reasonably large sample size, you have an equal chance of having a wonderful experience, a merely satisfactory experience, or a less than satisfactory experience for whatever reason (sitting behind head-bobber, for instance, which wouldn't bother me but may bother someone else).

As I said, you can increase your odds of having a wonderful experience by carefully selecting your seat so that you are somewhat insulated from whatever it is that might distract you. If you're distracted by head-bobbers, a front row seat in the balcony will almost certainly eliminate the odds of that distraction occurring for you. Or if coughing bothers you, select a seat close to the orchestra. That will mitigate that intrusion just by the sheer force of the music overpowering most audience noise.

And so on.

I try to think about, how important is it for me to hear this music as cleanly as possible? If it's important, something I really want to "hear," I'll sit up front, center. Or front row, balcony. If it's not that important -- if the program is sort of middle-of-the-road -- I'll happily sit in a "budget" seat somewhere.

It may sound, I don't know, elitist or whatever, but the more expensive seats are generally going to be occupied by people who are as intent as you are in "hearing" the music without distraction. The odds seem to drop a bit as you migrate to less expensive seats. If you sit in the back of the balcony, expect that you might have someone nearby who is more concerned with their Twitter feed than the concert, as happened to me at Avery Fisher earlier this year. (I moved down to orchestra level for the second half of the concert. Much better, and more attentive neighbors).

And I think my 30 percent ratio is probably higher in more prestigious venues with higher caliber orchestras. But that's just a guess.


----------



## breakup

There seems to be a lot of complaining about noise making that is noticeable during the quieter sections of the piece being performed. Is it possible that there is just as much noise during the louder sections, but it just isn't as noticeable because the orchestra is drowning it out.


----------



## regenmusic

Avey said:


> I know this has been complained of here and beyond, but I feel the need to reiterate:
> 
> *Head bobbing, weaving, nodding is so obnoxious.*


Let me add, dancing in the aisles is also.


----------



## KenOC

I must say that when the orchestra performs a work that I don't like, or plays badly, or even chooses an unwise tempo, I am inclined to exit the hall. I do this rather noisily, with the intent that not only the conductor but the entire orchestra is aware of my displeasure. And I'm sure the audience, however unwilling it is to emulate my courageous act, appreciates my expressing their feelings as well as my own. More of us should act likewise, I say!


----------



## Lukecash12

KenOC said:


> I must say that when the orchestra performs a work that I don't like, or plays badly, or even chooses an unwise tempo, I am inclined to exit the hall. I do this rather noisily, with the intent that not only the conductor but the entire orchestra is aware of my displeasure. And I'm sure the audience, however unwilling it is to emulate my courageous act, appreciates my expressing their feelings as well as my own. More of us should act likewise, I say!


Wow, we've got a real Caligula here. :lol:


----------



## Yoshi

I think the worst experience I've had was when a kid sat right behind me in a concert. He kept making questions to his mom during the whole concert really loudly and at some point he started kicking my chair a lot. The worst part is that me and other people looked behind to the mother many times and she completely ignored us. We couldn't do anything because apparently we can't tell other people's kids what to do so it just ruined the concert for me.


----------



## Guest

Yoshi said:


> I think the worst experience I've had was when a kid sat right behind me in a concert. He kept making questions to his mom during the whole concert really loudly and at some point he started kicking my chair a lot. The worst part is that me and other people looked behind to the mother many times and she completely ignored us. We couldn't do anything because apparently we can't tell other people's kids what to do so it just ruined the concert for me.


I think it would be perfectly reasonable to make your feelings known. You didn't pay money to hear endless talk and get your chair kicked.


----------



## Belowpar

KenOC said:


> I must say that when the orchestra performs a work that I don't like, or plays badly, or even chooses an unwise tempo, I am inclined to exit the hall. I do this rather noisily, with the intent that not only the conductor but the entire orchestra is aware of my displeasure. And I'm sure the audience, however unwilling it is to emulate my courageous act, appreciates my expressing their feelings as well as my own. More of us should act likewise, I say!


I'm all for this but whenever I do it I look out for punches and kicks from the people who were enjoying themselves upto that point. Still I think I'm fair game, after all Ken and I think anything goes at a concert as long as we're the centre of attention.

(PS I think I'm writing this in the same spirit Ken did. At least I hope so.)


----------



## Guest

When I was at the cinema the other day it suddently occurred to me that all these coughers, talkers and rustlers belong to the same modern art militant group - the 4'33" League.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Last two concerts I attended had someone who opened a hard candy as slowly as possible--perhaps thinking if they went slowly the wrapper would not be as noisy, but prolonging the noise all the more. The worse was the candy wrapper in the opening of Beethoven's Fifth. That person should be physically expelled from the concert hall and the concert started over.


----------



## sospiro

Florestan said:


> Last two concerts I attended had someone who opened a hard candy as slowly as possible--perhaps thinking if they went slowly the wrapper would not be as noisy, but prolonging the noise all the more. The worse was the candy wrapper in the opening of Beethoven's Fifth. That person should be physically expelled from the concert hall and the concert started over.


Unless you're a diabetic, on the brink of going into a coma, there is absolutely _no reason whatsoever_ why you should need to eat during a concert.

I think physically flogged would be a more appropriate punishment.


----------



## SixFootScowl

I can see a breath mint or some such to keep your mouth from being dry, but they ought to unwrap it and have it ready in a pocket so it makes no noise--and not chew it but let it quietly melt in their mouth. Some people are just obnoxious!


----------



## perempe

someone coughed all the time during the 3rd act of Tosca next to me. she ruined E lucevan le stelle.


----------



## Guest

There seems to be a need for a sugar rush.


----------



## perempe

Two months ago I sneezed loudly at a concert in the Opera House durint the 1st piece (Barber's First Essay for Orchestra, op. 12). After the sneeze I cursed (loudly). (I have never sneezed during a concert. I might even mentioned God.)

The concert was broadcasted by the national radio. (today was the replay. I haven't heard it.)


----------



## SixFootScowl

perempe said:


> Two months ago I sneezed loudly at a concert in the Opera House durint the 1st piece (Barber's First Essay for Orchestra, op. 12). After the sneeze I cursed (loudly).


Yikes! Oh well. It's not like you did it on purpose. Hopefully they have a delay for editing out extraneous noises before the broadcast.


----------



## perempe

I attended a concert a week ago. it was in a small hall with young artists. it was magnificent because of the lack of the cough. will this be the reason why I'm becoming a chamber music fan?


J. S. Bach: French Suite No. 5 in G major, BWV.816
W. A. Mozart: Duo for Violin and Viola in G major K.423
F. Chopin: Nocturne No. 4 in F major, Op. 15 No. 1
D. Shostakovich: 5 pieces for 2 violins and Piano
G. F. Händel – J. Halvorsen: Passacaglia
F. Chopin: Nocturne No. 13 in C minor, Op. 48 No. 1
Dvorak: Terzetto, Op. 74


----------



## Pugg

perempe said:


> I attended a concert a week ago. it was in a small hall with young artists. it was magnificent because of the lack of the cough. will this be the reason why I'm becoming a chamber music fan?
> 
> J. S. Bach: French Suite No. 5 in G major, BWV.816
> W. A. Mozart: Duo for Violin and Viola in G major K.423
> F. Chopin: Nocturne No. 4 in F major, Op. 15 No. 1
> D. Shostakovich: 5 pieces for 2 violins and Piano
> G. F. Händel - J. Halvorsen: Passacaglia
> F. Chopin: Nocturne No. 13 in C minor, Op. 48 No. 1
> Dvorak: Terzetto, Op. 74


That must have been a double good night, that program and no choughs.


----------

