# Schubert 15th string quartet, let's talk about it



## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

Today as I was doing my morning walk I listened to Schubert's 15th string quartet. while I was listening to it my mind was streaming with thoughts and impressions yet I found myself struggling to put those thoughts into words. I found this quartet is filled with a lot of fresh themes and it has multiple new elements. yet the whole thing feels too raw and it seemed to me that a lot of passages require revision. (oh my god admitting these doubts make me feel so guilty. I need a priest to confess this sin to him {insert crying emoji})

When I came back home I found that this string quartet was published decades after the composer's death. so here comes the question... Did Schubert complete this work or was the published quartet mere sketches?? 

this string quartet could be the greatest mystery I ever faced


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It was a completed work. Despite being published only more than 20 years after Schubert's death, I have never heard or read about serious philological issues.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

What makes you think that the finale is based on sketches when it is coherent and as good as the other movements of the quartet?


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

ORigel said:


> What makes you think that the finale is based on sketches when it is coherent and as good as the other movements of the quartet?


not only the finale,,,, the whole thing. The melodies of this string quartet is extremely short phrased and it lacks delight. which is very strange of Schubert. and also a lot of passages don't have the ornaments that I hear in Schubert works. as I told you it feels that I listening to a skeleton. the quartet doesn't have the muscles that make it move.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

As far as I know there's no scholarly doubt that it was a completed work. Personally, it's my favorite among Schubert's chamber works, or at least very close with his String Quintet. Schubert wasn't the most sophisticated craftsman, and "rawness," at least to the extent that it connotes something without extreme polish or refinement, tends to be a valued feature rather than a flaw in his work to my ears. So is his originality, which is ever-present in this particular work. I don't find that this rawness is any more extreme in this quartet, though I do think the piece seethes with a kind of emotional rawness that is not always "delightful" (to use your term), especially in how its fragmentary lyricism often clashes against the deep exploration of various modes (many of which are explored using extremely nervous/anxious motifs), the dynamic contrasts, and how it seems to be structured around these aspects rather than traditional harmonic development. One minute you're being lulled by a lovely melody and the next you're in a whirlpool of screaming violins drowning you in violent harmonic modulations. It's definitely not Schubert at his most pleasant, but it maybe Schubert at his most powerful.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

In several late works Schubert worked a lot with comparably short motives and mostly relegated expansive melodies to subsidiary themes, slow movements and trios. Cf. the first movement of the Great C major; the only "Schubertian" melody is found in the introduction. The quintet has a melodic second subject but the main subject is similarly "choppy" as in D 887 and not an expansive melody (like in the last piano sonata). The finale of D 887 seems quite similar to the d minor D 810 and the c minor sonata D 958. Such "tarantella" finales are not uncommon, although most other examples are in the Major, e.g. Beethoven op.18/3, op.31/3, Kreutzer sonata. The most famous later one is the finale of Mendelssohn's "Italian" symphony.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I struggled with this work. The first two recordings I heard left me cold. But the Quartetto Italiano recording allowed me to experience its beauty.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

jegreenwood said:


> I struggled with this work. The first two recordings I heard left me cold. But the Quartetto Italiano recording allowed me to experience its beauty.


good to know I'm not the only one lol


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Schubert D.887: 



 ~45:19
Beethoven Op.133: 



 ~3:07
(the dotted rhythms in all the parts)


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

The G major quartet always suffered from competition from both the earlier "named" quartets (Rosamunde, Tod u. d. Mädchen) and the String Quartet. Compared to those it's a less accessible, more abstract work and it's always been less popular. But it's no less a masterpiece.
I've read some critic's article once who thought the finale was too "Rossini-like", and thus inferior to the String Quintet's finale. I think that's a rather short-sighted verdict. It's true that Schubert's finales are often lighter and more cheerful than other movements, but one could call those "Apollonian", and as an expression of classical uncomplicated joy-de-vivre they're no less "deep" than the moodier, more romantic movements.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Its an amazing piece on so many levels, exploring techniques and displaying the type of psychological expression that would come to be commonplace in the 20th century.

There's none of the mind over matter attitude that can be found in Beethoven's late quartets here. Everything is so raw and it cuts very close to the bone. The only equivalent I can think of from the 19th century is Smetana's second quartet.

Honestly, I no longer seek it out because it takes me to such a dark space, and in I explained why in this earlier thread: 
https://www.talkclassical.com/57991-do-you-like-schuberts.html#post1534298

There, I put a quote by Schubert from a letter written in 1824 in which he explained his feelings so directly:

_"In a word, I feel myself the most unhappy and wretched creature in the world. Imagine a man whose health will never be right again, and who in sheer despair over this ever makes things worse and worse, instead of better; imagine a man, I say, whose most brilliant hopes have perished, to whom the happiness of love and friendship have nothing to offer but pain, at best, whose enthusiasm (at least of the stimulating kind) for all things beautiful threatens to disappear, and I ask you, is he not a miserable, unhappy being?"_


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

perhaps the key to get this work is not listening to it with a conscious mind, but with an open heart.


but wait..... isn't the case for all music????


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Maybe, but of course you can listen any way you want. I think your remarks where perceptive. 

In a historical sense, Schubert's case is odd because, like this quartet, a lot of his music was published posthumously. There was a huge time lag with many works, even over fifty years. Eduard Hanslick said he may as well have been living, since there where constant premieres of his music in the second half of the 19th century. Even many early 20th century performers didn't know his music to any great depth.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

gave this work another listen. the SQ is something else, nothing compared to anything I have ever heard before

Thank you all for helping appreciate this genius work

luv u :kiss:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

RobertJTh said:


> The G major quartet always suffered from competition from both the earlier "named" quartets (Rosamunde, Tod u. d. Mädchen) and the String Quartet. Compared to those it's a less accessible, more abstract work and it's always been less popular. But it's no less a masterpiece.
> I've read some critic's article once who thought the finale was too "Rossini-like", and thus inferior to the String Quintet's finale. I think that's a rather short-sighted verdict. It's true that Schubert's finales are often lighter and more cheerful than other movements, but one could call those "Apollonian", and as an expression of classical uncomplicated joy-de-vivre they're no less "deep" than the moodier, more romantic movements.


I think it is his best instrumental work together with the string quintet. I used to prefer the d minor quartet but I find this one a more original and overall superior piece although D 810 and 804 are also very good. IMO there is a problem with Schubert's finales and in several of the late sonatas and the trios I find them "too light" for the rest of the piece. The original version of the Eb major trio goes for an overlong finale with quotations but it hardly changes the Kaffeehaus-style of the movement. The most convincing movement transforming this popular dance style is IMO the finale of the quintet.
The dark and breathless tarantella movements work very well and the finale of the symphony (although not a favorite of mine) could be counted with them, in a way.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I love this quartet (but I adore all the Schubert quartets). We discussed the 15th quartet at length in the Weekly Quartet thread and I listened to and blogged a whole load of recordings. You can find that discussion and my listening recommendations in the links below, if you're interested.

Personally, I don't see it as 'skeletal' work at all. It's a huge, completed work but marks a departure from Schubert's previous style. I think that Schubert was entering an exciting new phase of composition that sadly we never saw the fruition of.

Weekly quartet Schubert 15 discussion

My recommended recordings


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Its one of my favourite quartets - always thought it was as monumental as the 9th symphony. Cant hear that is has any weaknesses at all and thank goodness for its discovery.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

In Woody Allen's 1989 comedy-drama Crimes and Misdemeanors, parts of the Allegro molto moderato (including the dotted rhythm of the opening) are used as a dramatic measure during several scenes that form central parts of the 'crimes' plot.

In Gramophone, Stephen Johnson referred to the work as Schubert's greatest string quartet, and speculated that it is heard less frequently than the composer's previous two quartets not because of lower quality but because it is less accessible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartet_No._15_(Schubert)#Cultural_legacy


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

I do not have many versions of all Schubert chamber music works. Unfortunately when it comes to this quartet I have again been a victim of the piercing Alban Berg Quartet sound which has prevented the natural enjoyment of this music and the intuitive appreciation of its strengths.


Luckily the Hagen Quartet version was recommended on this site. All of a sudden I find this piece adorable and the sound very pleasant indeed.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I wonder if Bruckner was familiar with this quartet, or if the parallels between the G-major quartet and Bruckner's symphonies are coincidental.


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