# Transcriptions... better or worse than the original? Favorites?



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I am a huge fan of transcriptions. What are your favorite transcriptions?

And also which transcriptions are better than the original?
Which transcriptions are worse than the original?






Liszt's transcription of Schubert's vocal piece. So moving.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

As a band junkie I play transcriptions all the time. We just performed one of my favorites, a transcription of Bernstein's _Candide Suite_. The transcription is my Clare Grundman.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

I love this one...






this one is very cool too...


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is the two piano version for La Valse which is a good contrast to the Gould's delivery.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

By Webern, the recherche for 3 or 6 Voices became unforgettable piece of work, I think. Of course Mussorgsky's Pictures of Exposition were reborn by Maurice Ravel's orchestra version.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is another lovely Schubert transcription.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

I love the transcriptions too.
Here are some of my favorites:

Stokowski/ Bach
Glenn Gould/ Wagner
Bartok/ Barroque pieces
Kodály/Bach
And, in many cases, Liszt of course.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

It depends of course on the skill of the transcriber. And the transcription is then often a different type of piece.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

D'Anglebert's transcriptions of Lully 
Zender's transcription of Schumann
Gould's transcriptions of Wagner
Rudy's transcriptions of Wagner
Webern's transcription of Bach
Cabezon's transcriptions of Josquin
Peter Philips's transcriptions of Lasso
Bach's transcriptions of Vivaldi
Ludger Remy's transcriptions of Bach
Leonhardt's transcriptions of Bach
Reger's transcriptions of Bach
Weinberger's transcription of Beethoven
Liszt's transcription of Beethoven and Berlioz
Finnissy's transcriptions of Verdi
Finnissy's transcriptions of Obrecht
Ferneyhough's transcriptions of Christopher Tye
Sciarrino transcriptions of Gesualdo
Stravinsky's transcriptions of Gesualdo
Holliger's transcriptions of Machau
Birtwistle 's transcriptions of Machaut
Birtwistle 's transcriptions of Ockeghem
Maxwell Davies's instrumental motets

One interesting CD, worth checking out I think, is this one


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Some are good, some are bad. I often make piano transcriptions to play, it can be quite enjoyable.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

What do you people think of Gould's transcriptions? I ask because I listened to some of them recently (Siegfried Idyll) and I was struck by how much better he was at piano transcriptions than Liszt. It's as if Gould gets to the heart of the music, the poetry, rather than trying to make the piano sound orchestral.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Some are good, some are bad. I often make piano transcriptions to play, it can be quite enjoyable.


Two I really don't like -- Nyiregyhazi's opera transcriptions and Barto's Rameau. Some people I know love them though.


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## Saintbert (Mar 12, 2015)

This goes in a different direction than most of the examples given so far. Shostakovich's Op. 17, his orchestrations of two pieces by D. Scarlatti:


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Anything Busoni is brilliant, anything Stokowski can be stunningly fun, but that don't say I like the fx. Bach originals they transcribed as much or less. As David wrote, it all depends! BTW, I've never understood these pitting X vs Y questions, all seem a bit daft and Immature to me, like someone wants to fast track knowledge of music (or whatever the subject is!)

/ptr


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The only transcription that I can say is better than the original is what Ravel did with Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, taking a fine piano piece and making it into one of the most sublime orchestral ones.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> What do you people think of Gould's transcriptions? I ask because I listened to some of them recently (Siegfried Idyll) and I was struck by how much better he was at piano transcriptions than Liszt. It's as if Gould gets to the heart of the music, the poetry, rather than trying to make the piano sound orchestral.


Glenn Gould's transcriptions of Wagner are awesome. He studied with Alberto Guerrero, a chilean teacher who, is said, was a very gifted musician in matter of transcriptions.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

I think so. Ravel is one of the technically magical musicians about orchestration.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

As far as better than the original, I actually like Brahms's arrangement of his own Requiem for piano four hands (without choir) better than the full version.

I think I also prefer Schoenberg's arrangement of Bach's St Anne Fugue over the organ version.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Question: Is there any difference between an arrangement, an orchestration and a transcription?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I am a great fan of transcriptions. To hear works I love transposed to solo instrument, to orchestra, to ensemble... no matter what... is a pleasure and allows me to appreciate the piece from different angles.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Clarification*



Heliogabo said:


> Question: Is there any difference between an arrangement, an orchestration and a transcription?


Yes there is. An orchestration or transcription uses all of the original notes. One may double some of the lines an octave higher of lower when transcribing a piano work for orchestra or band.

In an arrangement, the arranger may modify and change some of the notes or harmonies or rhythms. He may even add new material that he comes up with.

For example, I have performed an arrangement for band of Delibes' _March and Procession of Bacchus_. In it the arranger simplified some of the rhythms to make the arrangement simpler for middle school bands to play. By making these alterations the item would be considered an arrangement.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Jascha Heifetz made a fine transcription of Debussy's Girl with the Flaxen Hair. Works for me.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I second Busoni's Bach transcriptions. They're all great, imo.

Though the only one I've heard that I've had issue with is his Goldberg Variations renditions. I think the idea behind it was that no one would want to listen to the whole set in a concert setting [oh how wrong he was], so he omitted half the variations and beefed it up a bit into a three movement work that's almost like a fantasia. It's nice, but it doesn't match the sublimity of the Variations


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Heliogabo said:


> Glenn Gould's transcriptions of Wagner are awesome. He studied with Alberto Guerrero, a chilean teacher who, is said, was a very gifted musician in matter of transcriptions.


Ironically, the only Liszt that Gould seemed to bother with were the Beethoven transcriptions.

Regardless, Liszt was awesome at doing transcriptions for Schubert songs. He captured the energy of the vocal line in many of those pieces.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

What's the point of transcription? Why do composers do it? Is it just functional - let people get a suggestion of what a Wagner opera is like by playing it on a piano, that sort of thing? Or is there a deeper artistic, poetic, motivation?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> What's the point of transcription? Why do composers do it? Is it just functional - let people get a suggestion of what a Wagner opera is like by playing it on a piano, that sort of thing? Or is there a deeper artistic, poetic, motivation?


Quoting from the book "The Musician as Interpreter"

https://books.google.com/books?id=31d5lYCsKsUC&lpg=PA15&ots=Ku1X5EqCL2&dq=transcription%20glenn%20gould&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

Andreas said:


> As far as better than the original, I actually like Brahms's arrangement of his own Requiem for piano four hands (without choir) better than the full version.
> 
> I think I also prefer Schoenberg's arrangement of Bach's St Anne Fugue over the organ version.


To my regret, I've never listened to Brahms' arrangement of his own Requiem. Why don't you take up for Schoenberg's arrangement of Brahms' #1 Piano Quartet op.25, which you could listen to the recording by Michael T.　Thomas?　　I prefer this one to the original.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

arpeggio said:


> Yes there is. An orchestration or transcription uses all of the original notes.


With respect, Arpeggio ... is this the case for all works that are called a 'transcription'? As I understand it, Liszt didn't use all of the notes when he transcribed Berlioz' _Symphonie fantastique_ or Beethoven's symphonies for piano.

I would be surprised if ten fingers could manage to play all of the notes in these complex works (or even twenty fingers - he transcribed some for two pianos, I seem to remember)


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The most difficult piano transcription appears to have been Liszt's of Beethoven's Ninth, particularly the 4th movement. I have a copy on disc that I don't like but also have one that was a download on Amazon that is fantastic, but not available anymore. I heard that Liszt had to use two pianos (or was it four hands on one piano) in his early attempts at transcribing the Ninth.

I don't know if these are transcriptions but I have Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition on accordion, strings, brass, organ, as a concerto, and of course the orchestrated version (both Ravel and Stokowsky).

Symphony No.9 Molto Vivace (Beethoven, arr. Liszt)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> Quoting from the book "The Musician as Interpreter"
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=31d5lYCsKsUC&lpg=PA15&ots=Ku1X5EqCL2&dq=transcription%20glenn%20gould&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false


In the chaconne, was Busoni composing Bach's idea for the piano, or his own idea? Brahms also made a transcription which is, I think, isomporphic to Bach's score. I don't know what Busoni thought of it.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Headphone Hermit said:


> With respect, Arpeggio ... is this the case for all works that are called a 'transcription'? As I understand it, Liszt didn't use all of the notes when he transcribed Berlioz' _Symphonie fantastique_ or Beethoven's symphonies for piano.
> 
> I would be surprised if ten fingers could manage to play all of the notes in these complex works (or even twenty fingers - he transcribed some for two pianos, I seem to remember)


I was just trying to provide a simple explanation. There are technical exceptions like the ones you mentioned. When one goes from one medium to another, _i. e._ orchestra to piano, one must make certain adjustments. Sometimes there is a fine line between whether an item is an arrangement or a transcription.

I have absolutely no experience at going from orchestra to piano.

I studied orchestration and band arranging in college. When I was younger I did some band transcriptions. I vaguely recall some of the techniques one uses when transferring pianistic features to orchestra or band. I also vaguely recall that there are things one can do on a piano that one can not do with a band or orchestra. I remember trying to score a Chopin Piano Prelude for band for a class and I could not figure out how to handle this one glissando. If I strayed too much from the original the instructor would have considered the item to be an arrangement. That was forty years ago and I can not remember all the technical differences between arranging and transcribing.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Zoltan Kocsis / Ravel - Toccata

My favorite orchestration ever, until I hear a better one.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I am curious to hear how this organ transcription goes.






I haven't heard this yet but as a huge Mahler buff I would be worried .


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Liszt / Schumann - Widmung


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

And some transcriptions ought to stand as separate works in their own right. Masterworks combining jazz and classical music.






Also the Stokowski Bach transcriptions are considered masterpieces in their own right.


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## nbharakey (Oct 5, 2010)

Gubaidulina's transcription of Piazzolla's Libertango. I didn't like the music before hearing this transcription.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

One of the Giants of Transcriptions for piano is Leopold Godowsky (I failed to mention him in my previous post!), his Strauss transcriptions and his studies on Chopin's Etude's are splendid repertoire for any pianist, they even grow with skill of the pianist! Marc-André Hamelin have recorded a lot of it for Hyperion with great success! Carlo Grante is another fave in Godowsky as is Godowsky himself in his own recordings, even if they have a slightly more "vintage" sound!

/ptr


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## Pimlicopiano (Oct 23, 2014)

I've a very soft spot for the Liszt transacriptions of Schubert's songs. They served a purpose of forging Schubert's reputation at a time when a lot of his music was quite unknown. Some of the favourites are Du bist die Ruhe, Standchen, Grechen am Spinnrade. His Schumann transcriptions, though few, are delighful - I love Fruhlingsnacht to play. 

Although not strictly transcriptions, Earl Wild's studies on Gershwin Songs are very clever, and suitably fiendish to play.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is an example of one of Stokowski's Bach transcriptions.


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## Troy (Apr 23, 2015)

I play the viola and there are some transcriptions for viola which are considered standard where I prefer the sound of the original instrument. For example, I love the Brahm's sonatas in F minor and E-flat but both sound better on the clarinet in my opinion. Also there is a transcription of the Horn Trio that I don't like at all.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Troy said:


> I play the viola and there are some transcriptions for viola which are considered standard where I prefer the sound of the original instrument. For example, I love the Brahm's sonatas in F minor and E-flat but both sound better on the clarinet in my opinion. Also there is a transcription of the Horn Trio that I don't like at all.


I guess the viola has some kind of pitch affinity with the clarinet as Reger's clarinet sonatas can also be played on viola and I've also heard Berg's Four Pieces (for Clarinet & Piano) op. 5 played on viola as well.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Sometimes a "pop" transcription of classical pieces makes it an original and fascinating viewpoint.


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## Troy (Apr 23, 2015)

*Re: Transcriptions*

My last post in this thread seemed a bit whiny so on a more positive note. My absolute favourite transcription/arrangement is Eric Ball's arrangement of the _Suite Gothique_ op.25 by Leon Boellmann. I heard it at an Eric Ball special concert in Brisbane (I think with Excelsior Brass and the Salvation Army Brisbane Temple Band) and it was simply jaw dropping.

I haven't posted a youtube video. There are several, but none of them electrify me the way I remember. (Sigh)



Albert7 said:


> Sometimes a "pop" transcription of classical pieces makes it an original and fascinating viewpoint.


I see your rock transcription and raise you.






I have to say though that even without the techno elements I think the Dies Irae is pure rock music anyway.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Guessing game time... transcription, reinvention, or both?


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