# Thought-provoking



## Meaghan

A friend recently sent me this article from the Onion (a parody "news network," for those who don't know):

"97-Year-Old Dies Unaware of Being Violin Prodigy"

http://www.theonion.com/articles/97yearold-dies-unaware-of-being-violin-prodigy,18194/

Besides making me giggle ("as Itzhak Perlman wept openly with sheer joy from the front row"), it also made me think a bit. About several things. One idea I latched on to was from this paragraph:



> According to sources, Hollander was very active in her church. Pastor Frank Davis said that she took the most joy in singing with the choir during holiday masses, an experience she would have found a hellish, atonal cacophony had she completed the highest level of ear-training at The Juilliard School, where she could have received a full scholarship based entirely on the strength of her student audition.


The idea is that with advanced musical training, you lose some of your capacity to enjoy amateur music performance. And when I think about it, I find that this has been true for me, to a degree. I hear a lot more flaws in performances than I used to. I've become harder to please. Is this a sacrifice people make when they study music?

But I also think that my studies have deepened my enjoyment of music by deepening my understanding of it. Perhaps I've given something up (without realizing I was doing so) to obtain something I value more.

Anyway - I'm not sure I agree with all this article's implications, but it is interesting for questioning the value of fame and questioning the notion that rigorous musical training will necessarily have a positive impact on a person's life. Hm.

Just thought I'd share.


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## Ukko

_"Thank you for sharing."_ 

I have entertained the notion that 'rigorous music training' is particularly useful for people who really like to bitch; it makes it easy to find stuff to bitch about.

But, if applied to the general population, I think it is probably a wash.


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## Manxfeeder

This reminds me of Berlioz's comments on Saint-Saens: "He knows everything but lacks inexperience."


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## Sofronitsky

I don't think 'Ignorance is bliss' really applies to music.

If I thought Debussy's Clair De Lune was good as it gets, I would be missing out on appreciating alot of really good music, like for instance Janacek's Piano Sonata. 
If I thought Lang Lang's performance of the Tchaikovsky piano concerto was as good as it gets, well.. I would have to shoot myself because that's just too painful to think about. 

I think a better education in music allows you to appreciate things you wouldn't be able to and tap into a wider spectrum of understanding the music. Who cares if I won't appreciate a student's Prokofiev performance, I can still put on a CD and listen to Richter beat the hell out of it.


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## Sofronitsky

That article is hilarious, though. I especially liked the caption on the picture of Carnegie Hall:

_What could have been Hollander's 70th birthday celebration, rather than dinner at a local seafood buffet_


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## Ukko

Sofronitsky said:


> I don't think 'Ignorance is bliss' really applies to music.
> [...]
> I think a better education in music allows you to appreciate things you wouldn't be able to and tap into a wider spectrum of understanding the music. Who cares if I won't appreciate a student's Prokofiev performance, I can still put on a CD and listen to Richter beat the hell out of it.


Wondering if you share the sentiment that 'Flamenco is best performed by amateurs.'


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## Sofronitsky

Hilltroll72 said:


> Wondering if you share the sentiment that 'Flamenco is best performed by amateurs.'


 After googling 'Flamenco', I can honestly say that I have no opinion


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## Huilunsoittaja

Here's a favorite quote by "my" composer that illustrates this conundrum:

"You're so lucky, young men [Speaking to the young Shostakovich and his friend]. There are so many beautiful things for you to discover. And I already know it all. Unfortunately."

That was a very clever article by the way. It sort of criticizes that whole idea of "spoiling your potential" according to what the _world _would have wanted you to do and not what _you _would have wanted. Again, that applies to my composer.


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## Schnowotski

How about the famous notion that studying music theory kills creativity? If that is the case, I'm not sure if I have much left. 

I have wondered what's behind that. I don't think it is just bitterness. I think it is about the fact that when one starts to learn about music theory, the first things she learns are simple things - obviously - like diatonic scales, mayhaps little understanding about keys and so on, and many don't need more than that, but the problem is that when those are presented out of their theoretical context - since they have to be: the student wouldn't be able to grasp the big picture yet - it may seem as though they are limiting things. And this may have a real impact on the student: implicitly she starts to abandon ideas that are "contra-theory" (or at least that is what she thinks they are) and - what do know - theory has, indeed, killed some creativity. But not theory per se* - theory that is not understood in it's right context. 

(* just a side note: I like to use that - the phrase: per se - in serious seminars since in Finland 'perse' is a vulgar word for bottom (in anatomical sense). It is so awkward since it is very easy to see that bored and sleepy people would want to giggle to it but due to the situation they can't. Ach, I do like putting people in awkward situations.)


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## petrarch

Schnowotski said:


> How about the famous notion that studying music theory kills creativity? If that is the case, I'm not sure if I have much left.
> 
> I have wondered what's behind that.


I have met a lot of people that think that. They fear theory kills spontaneity, like theory is some straitjacket. I wholeheartedly disagree. Theory gives perspective, provides guidelines. Creativity is in no way affected; if you master theory, you will know how and when to break the rules for your own expressive needs.


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## kv466

I know what you mean...luckily, while I hear all the flaws, flounders and messups in music I am still able to enjoy it through and through...from bluegrass to jazz, from classical to punk rock and all those wonderful things in between


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## clavichorder

I think that once you develop the capacity to know what's "wrong" with music, and hear the mistakes, you'll be a bit tricky to please for a while, and maybe this will escalate to the point where you'll be fed up with being difficult to please. Then you'll have to learn to merely NOTICE mistakes or less than ideal writing and not judge them/it, and once again you'll be able to enjoy things. Never be afraid to learn more. I was indeed guilty of the fear that music theory would "artificially" alter my "unique voice that was to develop."

As a parallel to the article, my piano teacher and friend worked for the government for 30 years, but also worked on music studies in college, so sort of a mix. He tapped into his potential with piano studies and composing early on but then hopped off the wagon to potentially becoming a music professor, pianist, or composer, and instead became an editor. He's retired now and doesn't seem to have regrets too often.


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## mleghorn

I'm 52 now and have been listening to classical music for at least 40 years. Much about my life has been a journey to gain deeper appreciation of music, and the journey hasn't been linear. I've attempted to get deeper into music many ways, e.g. playing the piano since I was a teenager, learning the violin when in my 30s and 40s, composing music since about 4 years ago, experiencing life, constantly upgrading my audio system over the decades, acquiring new recordings, paying attention to music in movies and TV shows, arranging music for synthesizer (Bach & Holst Planets). As a result, I feel that I enjoy music now more than ever.


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## Vaneyes

Personality and patience have a lot to do with the tolerance issue.


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