# Where Can I Learn Music History?



## dandixon (Dec 2, 2020)

I grew up on rock n roll. There isn't much difficulty in differentiating a song from the 50s from a song from the 70s. A fair amount of the difference can be attributed to recording technology, but much more is from the changes in style and how those changes affect one artist to the next. There is a clear line from American folk blues to Jimi Hendrix. I appreciate hearing how one artist heard what someone else did then built upon it.

It recently occurred to me that classical music is not a nebulous period from a long time ago, but rather a amalgamation of styles spawning from distinct periods that frequently were driven by technological achievements just like the last 70 years of popular music. Musical notation only started 1000 years ago. Orchestras didn't start until 400 years ago. Composers drew not just from themselves but from their times and the music and musical technology that it presented.

I am wondering if there is a good podcast, class, or series of videos that goes through all of this. I would love to find a source that would show and interpret music for the first orchestras and then do the same for music that was to follow. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

As far as books go, the Vintage Guide to Classical Music is a great compendium with lots of info, by Jan Swafford.

On YouTube, I like "Inside the Score." He spotlights certain compositions very nicely.





David Bruce also has a good video about the history of the genre:





Now this one is just about Beethoven's 5th, but it's amazing:





By no means are any of these complete (though the Vintage Guide may be as close as they come). I think the best thing to do is get a box set and listen through it, see what sticks in your head, and then dive deeper into that.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

There is also a thread just started which asks what 20 pieces one would recommend to a newbie. Some of the lists are even good 

If you could only pick 20 classical pieces to recommend, what would they be?


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

MatthewWeflen said:


> There is also a thread just started which asks what 20 pieces one would recommend to a newbie. Some of the lists are even good
> 
> If you could only pick 20 classical pieces to recommend, what would they be?


I thought there was another thread this year on the same topic, but I can't find it anymore. I had recommended Disney's Fantasia, but search brings up nothing.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

You could enroll in an online university course, something like Western Music History. But what I would do is pick up a copy of an iconic book, A History of Western Music by Donald J Grout. There have been many editions since his death, they're all good. Then find the Historical Anthology of Music recordings that went with the book. I believe there are two volumes now. Early editions had LPs, but of course cds came around in the 80s. The newer editions of the book give the purchaser access to an online anthology. Grout covers it all - from the Greeks, to the earliest notations, to plainchant and onwards.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Read Harold Schonberg's _Lives of the Great Composers_. It's well written, and easily accessible to anyone regardless of musical literacy. Schonberg avoids deep musical analysis and humanizes the narrative of classical music history. The chapters can be read in order for a chronological experience, or read in random order. Schonberg is quite opinionated and I've grown to disagree with some of his assessments (he's harsh on Richard Strauss, Sibelius, and Shostakovich who are three of my favorites); even so he has his opinions and I have mine, and he states his cases very clearly and provokes interest, none-the-less. I read my copy of the second edition so many times that I've committed parts of it to memory, and the binding is long since broken and repaired with duct-tape. The third edition is the updated version, and expands the narrative to include women composers.

I received my original copy as a Christmas present from my mother when I was about 16 back in the 1980s. My mother didn't even like classical music, but she encouraged my interest; and I think that all parents should facilitate children following their own bent.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

When I started listening to classical I knew only the basics from my music history courses. This might be somewhat unconventional suggestion and might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I'd recommend you to read some online articles about classical music (I think that Wikipedia can be a great help here) or read a book about it if you find one you like. Nevertheless, I think it's quite essential to accompany reading with listening. Listen to Bach, listen to Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Schubert, Schumann or some other famous composer whose works you find appealing. But before you listen, read about the composer and the particular work you're planning to listen to. This isn't probably the quickest way, but it will certainly help you to link together the technical innovations and compositional philosophies with their practical outcomes. It really helps to give a bigger perspective of classical music.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

The Oxford History of Western Music - 5 Volume Set by Richard Taruskin is very comprehensive. I think it makes a good reference set.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> You could enroll in an online university course, something like Western Music History. But what I would do is pick up a copy of an iconic book, A History of Western Music by Donald J Grout. There have been many editions since his death, they're all good. Then find the Historical Anthology of Music recordings that went with the book. I believe there are two volumes now. Early editions had LPs, but of course cds came around in the 80s. The newer editions of the book give the purchaser access to an online anthology. Grout covers it all - from the Greeks, to the earliest notations, to plainchant and onwards.


*Grout* is pretty damned complete, but useless without audio. Of course, I went through the book twice well over 40 years ago, and am unfamiliar with any updates, but if there have been, they could only be for the better. the recordings (Historical Anthology of Music) are an absolute 'must have'.

The only failing I can discern from Grout is that it's very Euro-centric, as indicated by the title. As I recall, there's barely a mention of music from South America, which has Western roots. And Indian and Far East and African and Arabic music is all but ignored. If you want a history of music from the entire world you'll have to find an additional source. Sourc_*es*_. I doubt you'll find one source that covers the rest.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

dandixon said:


> I grew up on rock n roll. There isn't much difficulty in differentiating a song from the 50s from a song from the 70s. A fair amount of the difference can be attributed to recording technology, but much more is from the changes in style and how those changes affect one artist to the next. There is a clear line from American folk blues to Jimi Hendrix. I appreciate hearing how one artist heard what someone else did then built upon it.
> 
> It recently occurred to me that classical music is not a nebulous period from a long time ago, but rather a amalgamation of styles spawning from distinct periods that frequently were driven by technological achievements just like the last 70 years of popular music. Musical notation only started 1000 years ago. Orchestras didn't start until 400 years ago. Composers drew not just from themselves but from their times and the music and musical technology that it presented.
> 
> I am wondering if there is a good podcast, class, or series of videos that goes through all of this. I would love to find a source that would show and interpret music for the first orchestras and then do the same for music that was to follow. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


If you are serious, this is the course you have to take for fundamentals. 
https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/how-to-listen-to-and-understand-great-music-3rd-edition

Anything less is a shortcut that will be the same as wasting your time.

The question is, do you want to make a real commitment?


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

My blog covers the Classical Period:

http://somethingclassical.blogspot.com


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

dandixon said:


> I grew up on rock n roll. There isn't much difficulty in differentiating a song from the 50s from a song from the 70s. A fair amount of the difference can be attributed to recording technology, but much more is from the changes in style and how those changes affect one artist to the next. There is a clear line from American folk blues to Jimi Hendrix. I appreciate hearing how one artist heard what someone else did then built upon it.
> 
> It recently occurred to me that classical music is not a nebulous period from a long time ago, but rather a amalgamation of styles spawning from distinct periods that frequently were driven by technological achievements just like the last 70 years of popular music. Musical notation only started 1000 years ago. Orchestras didn't start until 400 years ago. Composers drew not just from themselves but from their times and the music and musical technology that it presented.
> 
> I am wondering if there is a good podcast, class, or series of videos that goes through all of this. I would love to find a source that would show and interpret music for the first orchestras and then do the same for music that was to follow. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


For a person who knows the history of pop music I've found this comparison below to be interesting and somewhat helpful. Because music history really is very Long and involved - and can be overwhelming as you're trying to keep it all in your mind..

The early days of tin pan alley music would be compared to the 'simple' harmony of renaissance music or music before JS Bach.

Then the more sophisticated harmonies of the pop standard and Jazz standards of the 30s and 40s would be JS Bach and the Baroque guys

Rockabilly simple songs would be where the early classicists come on the stage - through Mozart and Haydn.

The Beatles would be the early romantics because they used the earlier harmonies in a new way with more emotional explorations.

In the 70s and 80s in rock you can think of that as the late romantics - using the gimmicks as they became available and acceptable. Lead guitar, psychedelics.

When alternative and grunge came on board they can be the modernists, minimalists of the 20th Century

Now that pop has degenerated into just popular soundings (mostly pale imitations of what we;ve heard before) - this could be equated to some of the memorable modern music of our last few decades.

This is just to keep similar ladders of development in your mind...


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

delete post. My suggestion was behind a pay wall.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Harold C. Schonberg's _The Lives of the Great Composers_ has been considered a gold standard for decades and is still easily recommendable for all levels of interest, beginners and veterans alike.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> You could enroll in an online university course, something like Western Music History. But what I would do is pick up a copy of an iconic book, A History of Western Music by Donald J Grout. There have been many editions since his death, they're all good. Then find the Historical Anthology of Music recordings that went with the book. I believe there are two volumes now. Early editions had LPs, but of course cds came around in the 80s. The newer editions of the book give the purchaser access to an online anthology. Grout covers it all - from the Greeks, to the earliest notations, to plainchant and onwards.


I used Grout in my first course in music history and I found it a good overview. It focuses on the structure of the music itself, it is not a compilation of composer biographies. Much more coherent than wandering around in Wikipedia.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Which edition of Grout is even the best one to get? As a former academic, I know all too well that there are diminishing returns in getting newer editions, as the additional/re-arranged content typically does not justify the extra $100 it costs.

For short reference guides, I'm enjoyed the Oxford Dictionary of Music, but it's more of a supplement to a proper history.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Grout, Oxford Dictionary of Music, Harvard Dictionary of Music are worth checking out! Read Grout and research it's terms with the dictionaries, if needed. I am unsure of you tube stuff because I don't use it for the purpose under discussion.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

For Grout: either the Revised Edition (1973) or the Third (1980) are just fine. You can find copied on eBay for less than $10. The trick is to be able to hear all the music. I would imagine that most of it is on YouTube, but perhaps not. Later editions were edited by others who were all too happy to add their names to the cover and eventually take precedent over Grout's. Talk about standing on the shoulders of giants.

Here's a link to the 10th edition and it looks like they provide access to the music files, but it's more expensive.
https://www.boosey.com/shop/prod/Grout-Donald-Jay-Burkholder-J-Peter-Palisca-Claude-V-A-History-of-Western-Music-9th-Edition/2105749


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

AeolianStrains said:


> Which edition of Grout is even the best one to get? As a former academic, I know all too well that there are diminishing returns in getting newer editions, as the additional/re-arranged content typically does not justify the extra $100 it costs.
> 
> For short reference guides, I'm enjoyed the Oxford Dictionary of Music, but it's more of a supplement to a proper history.


Get one of the cheaper editions. The _*history*_ of music hasn't changed, just how we view it. Most everything up to the 20th Century is going to be pretty standard.

Not that I've read every edition . . . I suppose later editions likely contain some nice details, and likely have some inclusions of female and POC composers.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Howard Goodall’s The Story of Music is a good, racy, popular introduction. He deals with popular music too. One man’s view but entertaining,


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Handelian said:


> Howard Goodall's The Story of Music is a good, racy, popular introduction. He deals with popular music too. One man's view but entertaining,


And it's on Youtube. It's all right for a quick crash, but I wouldn't recommend it for serious inquiry.


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## dandixon (Dec 2, 2020)

Thank you all very much for the suggestions. They sent me on my way to find a list of all time favorites that a user has been compiling here for sometime which assigns points based upon location in your list and is limited to users with 200 posts in the forum: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bZIeN0DxFigqC924ChJ7PdkeJUYQJpwb3kIgdHWTFqA/edit#gid=0.

I took the top 100 and arranged them chronologically. I am now turning them into a YouTube Music playlist. I've got the first 50 in order here and will be adding the next 50 soon: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhmzhBQ1ma6BycAhnvcUFv-o1OJAn00i3.

I appreciate having the members of this community pre-crowd sourced already and then being able to draw on the aggregated group knowledge to find these pieces. Listening through in order does hammer home what style was in place in a particular era and what that style sounded like.

Thank you all for your help.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

dandixon said:


> Thank you all very much for the suggestions. They sent me on my way to find a list of all time favorites that a user has been compiling here for sometime which assigns points based upon location in your list and is limited to users with 200 posts in the forum: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bZIeN0DxFigqC924ChJ7PdkeJUYQJpwb3kIgdHWTFqA/edit#gid=0.
> 
> I took the top 100 and arranged them chronologically. I am now turning them into a YouTube Music playlist. I've got the first 50 in order here and will be adding the next 50 soon: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhmzhBQ1ma6BycAhnvcUFv-o1OJAn00i3.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your effort putting together that spreadsheet. I downloaded it.

As a new explorer I would be overwhelmed by that huge challenge.

I would start with Chopin finding pieces that I really enjoyed and then do the same with Mozart. Next, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Beethoven, Bach, Brahms and Haydn, pretty much in that order, unless I heard something outside of these which fit my growing interests. For many people it's how melodies are used down through history.

It's always trying to please myself as I make my way in the long journey keeping the same consistent approach ...and it's a long journey.


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## planet (May 1, 2015)

eljr said:


> If you are serious, this is the course you have to take for fundamentals.
> https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/how-to-listen-to-and-understand-great-music-3rd-edition
> 
> Anything less is a shortcut that will be the same as wasting your time.
> ...


This particular recommendation is moderated by the instructor's style to always speak every word with earth-shattering emphasis. If you are able to avoid bouncing off of it, more power to you. I'd prefer someone who is more conversational and instructive, and not trying to keep a room full of college kids who don't want to be in his class from falling asleep.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I bought the Grout (newest edition at the time) about 4-5 years ago. Be aware that online access to the music is for two years only. Very frustrating wen you want to go back to review something.


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