# Listening with a Score



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Was wondering how many people here do this.

I saw a few posts that alluded to this practice. Being a pianist and having dabbled in guitar, I'm not sure I would know how to read an entire orchestral score. I've seen scores before and studied some in graduate school, but 20 years later, I have forgotten much of what I learned, and I was never that good at studying all aspects of a score

For those who do this, where do you purchase the score?

And, for those who do, were you trained already in reading scores? If not, how did you learn to read an orchestral score? Do you just concentrate on certain instruments? How would you suggest an approach for someone who has never done this? Thank you in advance.

V


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

You can find lots of public domain scores, for any instrumentation, at IMSLP.

I played an instrument and sang as a child, so I've been able to read music to some degree pretty much all my life. The notation has never seemed mysterious to me the way it does to others.

I taught myself to read orchestral scores much later. It helps me to focus on the music and hear details of scoring and counterpoint that I might otherwise miss. I am able to hear multiple lines at once, even if what I'm looking at is only a portion of what I'm hearing, so I'll often look at the very things that I would be less apt to notice. If I have a printed score, though (rather than a computer file), I'll be looking at the whole thing at once.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I get scores where I can find them. I like Dover and Kalmus scores because they fit nicely on a bookshelf. But the Petrucci website (http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page) has tons of free scores to download. Also, the Norton Scores highlight what you should be listening for, which is helpful. There is an old set of Harcourt-Brace miniature scores featuring the symphonies of Brahms and Tchaikovsky, another with Famous Individual Symphonies in Full Score, and another with the Beethoven symphonies, and they point out theme one, the second theme, development, etc. Those are from the '40s, but they show up in used bookstores and on Ebay.

As for the scores themselves, I annotate mine. If I read an article/book or hear a podcast, I'll put relevant comments on the score page, because I'll never remember all those details. These point me to the parts of the piece I need to concentrate on: first theme, second theme, phases of the development, etc., or harmonic movement. You really need this in something like Schoenberg's Pelleas, which has a ton of stuff going on at the same time; only a score will let you be aware of all that's happening.

I've seen people highlight themes. That's a nice thought, but it takes forever.

Sometimes it's interesting to follow a supporting part which might not be evident just from listening or which might be barely audible in a recording. The opening of the last movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony is like that.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

For solo piano music or small chamber works, I regularly consult the score when I am listening. Also for polyphonic choral works. Even though my knowledge of music theory is sadly limited, I still enjoy following the vague melodic outlines and it also helps me to concentrate on the structure. I also quite like piano reductions of operas or any other vocal works. This is somehow more interesting than just reading the texts. With larger works like symphonies, however, I sometimes get the score out but I never really know where to look.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

The easier place to begin is Youtube. One really picks it up 'by intuition' rather than any particular learned skill besides knowing the note values and how the staff works. It is perhaps useful to know that most orchestral scores contain simultaneously up to 4 parts, being three parts the most common and the parts themselves may be doubled at different octaves. To be able to identify the parts and the role of each part also helps, as following the voice/voices that 'have the melody' is the initial guide. As you can see, orchestral scores are not that different to piano scores. All this is much simpler than how it sounds, this web may help you to understand/remember all this: http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/rule-of-three-part-2-orchestrating-the-nutcracker--audio-15527

Like they say, you never know until you try:


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Thank you all.

Another question: Do full scores from the sources that MAHLERIAN & MANX refered to tell you which lines are for which instruments? I see that the YouTube link WRAHMS posted has no instrumentation. I can read notes just fine, however, I was thinking about delving into score reading to learn more about how music is written for instruments I am not familiar with.

Of course another big reason is exactly what MAHLERIAN & MANX spoke about of listening for things that I might have missed during larger scored pieces like symphonies and concertos by just listening.

And also, to better understand the limitations of other instruments as well, such as certain horns can only play certain notes or certain combinations of notes far less than what a piano can.

Thanks for the info so far. Yet another exciting aspect of classical music to explore. WRAHMS said it well, _"You never know until you try."
_

V


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Varick said:


> Another question: Do full scores from the sources that MAHLERIAN & MANX refered to tell you which lines are for which instruments? I see that the YouTube link WRAHMS posted has no instrumentation. I can read notes just fine, however, I was thinking about delving into score reading to learn more about how music is written for instruments I am not familiar with.


Usually, that's on the first page, and either an abbreviation or nothing at all is used on the following pages. Scores are always laid out in the same order, though, no matter who the composer is or when the piece was written (assuming modern notation), so if you've seen a number of them, you'll be able to tell what instruments are playing simply by their placement on the page (and the kind of clef they use).

Instruments are roughly arranged highest to lowest, but grouped by section, so winds are at the top of the page: flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon (with each family grouped together). Brass are next: horn, trumpet, trombone, tuba. Then percussion, then keyboard instruments, then voices, then strings.

Knowing the principles will make finding your bearings less difficult. Be aware that a number of the standard orchestral instruments (clarinets, horns, trumpets) are transposing, so they're written in a different key than they sound in.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

While I can read notes, sight-singing has always eluded me, and the ability of professional musicians to look at a score and hear it all in their head seems like magic to me. How on earth do they manage to take it all in at a glance?! It seems like reading 15 books at the same time to me - some of which are in foreign languages that have to be translated on the fly (transposing instruments!). 

That said, I do occasionally follow scores while listening. It is possible to follow at least the general flow, and you often notice things you otherwise wouldn't. I well remember the first time I listened to Bach's double violin concerto while following the score - I was utterly blown away because I had never realized just how beautifully the thing is crafted.


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## Cantabile (May 24, 2014)

I have just discovered that some YouTube offerings include "read along" scores, so I've been reading along with my favourite chamber music - this brings back many memories of page-turning for pianists as a music student - it is extremely enjoyable to listen and read anywhere!


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## Cantabile (May 24, 2014)

Yes, brianvds, having the score really shows how beautifully crafted the works are- for instance, having a great time visually following the interplay of voices, the swapping of thematic and/or rhythmic material from violin to cello to piano or viola in various chamber works, seeing -as well as hearing - how continuity is created!


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I bought my precious collection (about 40) of miniature scores from eBay & a few Dover Scores from Amazon. I say 'precious' because when I bought them some years ago they were cheap & readily obtainable. Now, there are so few around in comparison & usually cost quite a bit more. I still regret not putting in a higher bid for the 'complete scores for Rachmaninov's Piano Concertos'...don't like to think of it?!!

Focusing on the score as the music unfolds....creates a sense of deep appreciation & in many cases...sheer Wonder!


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I love listening with the score in my lap, it enhances my understanding of the music and it makes it much easier to follow what the Conductor/Musicians does or don't, and it also helps to understand why some interpreters constantly underwhelm despite being heralded as masters...

/ptr


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

You've got some musical background so you'll probably breeze it. Anyone should be able to follow along easily enough (especially slower pieces). It'll help highlight the subtleties when you see notes on the page that you perhaps didn't hear before.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

brianvds said:


> While I can read notes, sight-singing has always eluded me, and the ability of professional musicians to look at a score and hear it all in their head seems like magic to me. How on earth do they manage to take it all in at a glance?! It seems like reading 15 books at the same time to me - some of which are in foreign languages that have to be translated on the fly (transposing instruments!).
> 
> That said, I do occasionally follow scores while listening. It is possible to follow at least the general flow, and you often notice things you otherwise wouldn't. I well remember the first time I listened to Bach's double violin concerto while following the score - I was utterly blown away because I had never realized just how beautifully the thing is crafted.


Practice and sight singing is not that hard, melodic dictation is much harder for me


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> Practice and sight singing is not that hard, melodic dictation is much harder for me


I wouldn't know; I suppose I have not really gone deeply enough into it. Seems to me though that it would be like learning an instrument, i.e. you need to practice an hour a day for a few years to get to an intermediate sort of level with it. Alas, I just don't have the time!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Being score-illiterate, I have no useful opinion. A clarinetist friend has an opinion though, and it seems different enough from the consensus here that I'll pass it on:

 "It's true, your eyes can notice things that your ears don't, at least on the first listening. That may mean someone isn't listening attentitively enough, or it may mean an inaudible part of the score could be removed. If someone is saying that score reading is a listening aid, I say they might learn to listen better with their ears. 

Score reading involves a whole different feedback loop that uses up attention, and people who do it are continually talking to themselves, saying, oh, I saw that and I did hear it, or oh, I saw something but didn't hear it, or I think I heard something different than I saw etc. I could see studying music by repeated listening to recordings while following the score. And some modern music may be unlistenable enough that reading a score might make it more interesting. But otherwise, no, score reading detracts from fully using your ears to appreciate a performance.

As you know, I used to frequently listen while reading a score. I stopped when I realized I was missing emotional content in the performance because of it.

Btw, anyone who claims they can read a score for this purpose better be able to also truthfully claim to accurately hear the music in their head when reading a score without an audible performance. Or they are fos."


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I bought the music for Beethoven's Ninth. Came as a book with a CD. That was a year ago and i have not tried to follow along yet. No time. Also I may get lost very quickly. I should start with something simple like Chopsticks and work my way up! :lol:


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

brianvds said:


> I wouldn't know; I suppose I have not really gone deeply enough into it. Seems to me though that it would be like learning an instrument, i.e. you need to practice an hour a day for a few years to get to an intermediate sort of level with it. Alas, I just don't have the time!


No if you spend 10 minutes on it a day you will be able to sight sing moat tonal music within a matter of months


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Varick said:


> Another question: Do full scores from the sources that MAHLERIAN & MANX refered to tell you which lines are for which instruments? I see that the YouTube link WRAHMS posted has no instrumentation. I can read notes just fine, however, I was thinking about delving into score reading to learn more about how music is written for instruments I am not familiar with.


To further illustrate the points made thus far, if this helps, here's what a typical mass-market Dover scorebook looks like:















Apologies for the blurriness.


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