# Classical yet not classical exactly



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Does anyone know of folkloric music or popular or a line of jazz or of any music genre that behaves like or similar to classical music? Thank you


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

If you mean does it have a sonata allegro form and recurring themes put through a development section (or "jam" in the vernacular) then some progressive rock fits the bill from the around 1969 through the late 70s, and then with a resurgence in the early 21st century to the present. By progressive rock, I don't necessarily mean progressive metal which is a rather different thing.

The 70s band Renaissance came closest in many ways, sometimes directly borrowing from classical composers, but in a good way.

Here is their take on Scheherezade with a few nods toward Rimsky Korsakov. (If by some miracle you can make it through all 25 minutes of this epic, the last note Annie Haslam hits is mind blowing for a non-operatic singer. If you don't have the time at least skip over to about 22 minutes till the end She almost shatters the stratosphere.)

I have about half a billion other examples, but I'll spare you.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I agree with the Western's post above almost entirely. The only thing I disagree with is the statement that progressive metal is a 'rather different thing'.

There is plenty of prog-metal bands that tend to be not too different than the prog bands, other than the metal guitar licks, double bass, and metal style vocals. There quite a few bands were the dividing line between prog-metal and prog is very permeable. 

Annie Haslam is something, indeed. I saw Renaissance quite a few times when Annie was in her prime, and the goosebumps were plentiful. To think, that she was a dressmaker with no professional singing experience, when a coworker heard her singing to herself and urged her to pursue singing.

Jazz piano great, Keith Jarrett did several albums that are very hard to classify as either classical or jazz.

A few to look for are:

In The Light - short pieces for solo piano, strings, and various chamber ensembles, including a string quartet and a brass quintet, and a piece for cellos and trombones. 

The Celestial Hawk - a piece for orchestra, percussion, and piano that Jarrett performed and recorded with the Syracuse Symphony under Christopher Keene.

Norwegian guitarists, Terje Reydal, also did some things in a similar vein. Look for:

Lux Aeterna - with a chamber orchestra. Some really beautiful, haunting stuff.

Whenever I Seem to Be Far Away - with a full orchestra, I believe. Hard to classify... jazz-fusion, with prog influences, and classical.

Q.E.D. - this is probably the most contemporary classical of his. Sparse, cold and lonely sounding at times, but still quite beatiful. Recorded with Borealis Ensemble, a chamber orchestra.

I will post more tomorrow.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Weston said:


> If you mean does it have a sonata allegro form and recurring themes put through a development section (or "jam" in the vernacular) then some progressive rock fits the bill from the around 1969 through the late 70s, and then with a resurgence in the early 21st century to the present. By progressive rock, I don't necessarily mean progressive metal which is a rather different thing.
> 
> The 70s band Renaissance came closest in many ways, sometimes directly borrowing from classical composers, but in a good way.
> 
> ...


Is any of this technically 'folk music?' Serious question.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The Polyphonic Singing of the Aka Pygmies of Central Africa


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

PetrB said:


> The Polyphonic Singing of the Aka Pygmies of Central Africa


From the comments: _"That boy has a leaf coming out of his butt."_ Oh, the western world.

-------------------------------------------

The thing is that today, in the 21st century, a lot of music during the past century was influenced by the folk music of diverse cultures. So, the question "behaves like or similar to classical music" is actually "classical behaves like these musics".

One could say, though, that there are certain things that are intrinsic to classical, like Polyphonic thinking, and in that sense there's actually a similarity between classical and The Polyphonic Singing of the Aka Pygmies of Central Africa mentioned by PetrB; and, most importantly, the Polyphonic thinking in both cultures was developed independently of each other. On the other hand, precisely because of this, the music of the Aka Pygmies has interesting things going on in rhythm that were not present in classical. Composers like Ligeti took these things and tried to apply them to their classical music compositions.

Exactly the same thing can be said of Gamelan music:


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Naccio said:


> Does anyone know of folkloric music or popular or a line of jazz or of any music genre that behaves like or similar to classical music? Thank you


in jazz, the so called "third stream" is an attempt to fuse certain aspects of jazz music with certain others of classical. It was named so by Gunther Schuller in the late fifties, but there are tons of examples even before, even in the twenties Bix Beiderbeck wrote "In a mist", influenced by Debussy. There are other threads about it.

About folk, recently I've mentioned this album of Beverly Copeland, try to listen to the track swords of Gold.
http://www.mocm.ca/Music/Title.aspx?TitleId=317971

The great Atahualpa Yupanqui, one of the greatest fok musicians ever had a technique on guitar that was influenced by Segovia.

Tim Buckley was influenced by Ligeti and singers like Katy Berberian when he did things like Starsailor





Nico wasn't maybe exactly a folk musician, but he did music that was a cross of folk music and classical lieder





Maybe also things made by bands like Pentangle or Penguin Cafe Orchestra could be added.
Or classical arrangements of folk songs like the famous Chant's D'auvergne


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Simon Moon said:


> I agree with the Western's post above almost entirely. The only thing I disagree with is the statement that progressive metal is a 'rather different thing'.
> 
> There is plenty of prog-metal bands that tend to be not too different than the prog bands, other than the metal guitar licks, double bass, and metal style vocals. There quite a few bands were the dividing line between prog-metal and prog is very permeable.
> 
> ...


Uh, Kieth, until he was kicked out after attending for several years, was a classical piano performance major at Juilliard. Ergo, no surprises there are classical elements and sensibilities in his own stuff -- but that does explain very much why, i.e. it is not some spontaneous thing which was born out of no awareness of western classical music.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Here's some more examples that might fit the OP.

Mahavishnu Orchestra - Vision Is a Naked Sword

Jazz-fusion with the LSO and Michale Tilson Thomas.






Oregon - Beneath an Evening Sky

An evolution of the above mentioned '3rd Stream'. Often referred to as 'chamber jazz'.






Universe Zero - Dense

Refereed to as 'avant-prog', taking influences from 20th century composers. The use of bassoon, violin, clarinet add to the contemporary classical feel.






Hopefully the OP will chime in and let me know if I am completely off base with my recommendations.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

You're all going to call me crazy for this, but I'm convinced that Stairway to Heaven is a chaconne. I don't think Jimmy Page set out to write a chaconne but there it is. Well almost, perhaps not a chaconne in the strictest definition. A repeating descending bass line, in the intro and first two verses: A, G#, G, F#, F, the next four verses: C, B, A. And the solo and coda it repeats the first descending line but with the G# and F# missing but still in the same four four time. Variations on a short repeating bass line.

_And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last_

I've mentioned this before, I know. I think I'm right, but I'm probably also crazy.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> sensa sordino: You're all going to call me crazy for this, but I'm convinced that Stairway to Heaven is a chaconne. I don't think Jimmy Page set out to write a chaconne but there it is.


I don't think Jimmy Page set out to write much of anything at all, chaconne or otherwise, since he plagiarized the song from another band to begin with:


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I don't think Jimmy Page set out to write much of anything at all, chaconne or otherwise, since he plagiarized the song from another band to begin with:


Or you can listen to the whole, unedited tune and judge how similar they are, adjusting for the standards of pop/rock (i.e., there's nothing new under the sun).


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