# Third Round: Erda's Warning. Thorborg and Madeira



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

You might have trouble with this one.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I've never heard Thorborg sing this, and I don't associate her with the role. With her dark, dramatic mezzo, she was an ideal exponent of Wagner's mezzo roles and especially a great Ortrud, the true predecessor of Margarete Klose and Christa Ludwig. She may not be exactly a contralto, but her singing of this is darkly and stunningly beautiful, imperturbable in its long, legato phrasing, expressing a timeless serenity which is certainly fundamental to Erda's nature. I think it presents a valid alternative to the stern, declamatory approach of singers such as Podles and Schumann-Heink. There is, after all, no reason for Erda to sound fierce or hostile; she is a being at peace with herself, simply speaking truth, let the gods make of it what they will.

It's been years since I last listened to the Solti _Rheingold_. I remembered Jean Madeira as excellent, but hearing her again confirms the memory and then some. What a beautiful, clear, rock-solid voice she had! She makes a fine effect by singing the music powerfully and straightforwardly, without any definite personality, portraying Erda as a force of nature one ignores at one's own risk.

Of these two, the surprise for me - a wonderful one - is Thorborg. Through a unique combination of vocal endowment, style and musicianship, she has succeeded in making me conceive of the character of Erda in a fresh, and larger, way. Her characterization, rooted entirely in the music itself, is at the farthest remove from some others we've heard, and makes them seem simplistic, even cartoonish, in comparison. Wagner's goddess of wisdom has never sounded more noble and majestic, or moved me so profoundly.

Chalk up another one to the Golden Age of Wagner singing!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I’m choosing Madeira, _pace _Woodduck, as she in Erda in my mind’s ear. While I admire Thorborg for all of the reasons he professes, I need the great orchestral sound that Madeira and Solti and Culshaw and the Vienna Philharmonic provide. The resonant acoustic is a gimmick to make the Erda character more eerie, but that great vocal outpouring is elemental in itself.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Oh I don't know. I thought they were both very impressive. Recording quality perhaps makes a difference here, but really they were both wonderful. I'm voting for Thorberg, but only because she had fewer votes. Really I could have voted for either.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Oh I don't know. I thought they were both very impressive. Recording quality perhaps makes a difference here, but really they were both wonderful. I'm voting for Thorberg, but only because she had fewer votes. Really I could have voted for either.


Kerstin thanks you. She is 126 years old, and elderly ladies are always grateful for the assistance of attractive younger men. I'm certain that you fit that description.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Jean Madeira as I just love the sound of her voice. She is more the impersonal power oracle but at the same time she doesn't sound like the "Old Mother."


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I like Madeira, but Thorborg is one of my absolute favourites so she should win easily.

As expected, Thorborg is very strong here. It was a gorgeous voice and she was superb in all the main Wagner mezzo roles. She also has the gravitas for Erda. 

I'm put off at the start of Madeira's version by Solti's shaping of the chords preceding her entry. Her voice is very impressive and has amazing presence. However, she is too scary. Erda should be grounded above all else!

My vote based on these two is for Thorborg.

Madeira is the Erda in the Stiedry live recording from the Met and Kna's 1956 Bayreuth recording. She tones things down a jot in the Stiedry in 1951, but I still think Thorborg's voice suits the character more.

N.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Thorberg, for me.

Thorberg's tone is less refulgent than Madeira's and the sound quality is less flattering but there is more impetus to her singing, the voice focused and steady. Madeira makes a mighty first impression but overall the dramatic and dynamic range of her performance are narrower: I enjoy how Thorberg's performance builds in intensity and does not flag.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The name is THORBORG


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

MAS said:


> The name is THORBORG


The way I type it'll be Korston Therbirg before long.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Revitalized Classics said:


> The way I type it'll be Korston Therbirg before long.


I have to correct things several times, what with my fat finger onesie and the iPad keyboard…


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I have to correct things several times, what with my fat finger onesie and the iPad keyboard…


I sympathize. With my large hands and big fingertips I'm hopeless on small keypads and refuse to text message. Despite that I'm still a wretched typist. I do know how to spell Thorborg, though.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I sympathize. With my large hands and big fingertips I'm hopeless on small keypads and refuse to text message. Despite that I'm still a wretched typist. I do know how to spell Thorborg, though.


You are being mean🤪


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are being mean🤪


Who, me? ............


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

The mystery of sex appeal of Erda could become a good subject of a thesis, according to our three rounds. It's surprising how in such a psychoanalytic oeuvre as Der Ring is it's Erda who is discussed in this meaning. And why not? She knows everything, as she states at least in Rheingold. 
From the singers presented here Frau Thorough sings in a solemn and academic way. Her Erda's intentions are most serious. Señorita Madeira is absolutely different. She shows that the meeting which resulted in Valkyries' birth occurred because she had decided so. Such a passionate performance, besides a rich voice, is not usually expected from Erda. I can't help it.


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> It's been years since I last listened to the Solti _Rheingold_. I remembered Jean Madeira as excellent, but hearing her again confirms the memory and then some. What a beautiful, clear, rock-solid voice she had! She makes a fine effect by singing the music powerfully and straightforwardly, without any definite personality, portraying Erda as a force of nature one ignores at one's own risk.


I agree! I've been listening to the Ring of Solti for a week (for the first time in my life!). I had never heard of Madeira before, but she did catch my eye (or rather, my ear). I've been looking for information about her on Google.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Montarsolo said:


> I agree! I've been listening to the Ring of Solti for a week (for the first time in my life!). I had never heard of Madeira before, but she did catch my eye (or rather, my ear). I've been looking for information about her on Google.


I heard her first as Klytemnestra on Met Opera Radio and she was thrilling and chilling. A real contralto.


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