# Poll - Your opinion on Gilbert and Sullivan operettas



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Please only vote if you have seen at least one of them.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I voted "Kind of nice and pleasant, can be fun to watch/listen to."

I remember watching an Australian production, filmed here in Sydney, of _The Pirates of Penzance _ on television many years ago. The lead was actually sung by an Australian rock singer, Jon English, and the orchestra was replaced by a synthesiser. English's voice was okay but he really stole the show with his acting (or was it "overacting?" ), charisma & overall charm. I enjoyed this operetta more for the visual aspects - the slapstick & humour - than the music, but the tune from the song "I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-General" is forever etched in my memory.

BTW, I am a person who enjoys operetta quite a lot, especially if it's well done. I even have recordings of things like Lehar's _Merry Widow _& J. Strauss Jnr's _Die Fledermaus _(a masterpiece, imo), which I ocassionally give a spin if I'm in the mood for something lighter than the more serious stuff...


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I love them. Satirical & great fun.


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## Philmwri (Apr 8, 2011)

Trial by Jury is so fuuny.


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## BalloinMaschera (Apr 4, 2011)

I recently went to see the Mikado at ENO... sets were great, singing not bad... but still it failed to grab me... the music did not quite carry the evening, and the humor passed me by... we were bored and left at intermission... that said, I'm pretty sure the lack of appreciation rests with me... the rest of the audience was clearly amused and had a ball, and I'm sure thoroughly enjoyed the second half... for what it's worth I did sing Ralph (pronounced Rafe) at a concert performance of HMS Pinafore many moons ago, and that was reasonably fun... still, G&S groupie I am not... I don't think I'm English enough...*sigh*

incidentally, my vote went to the so-so category


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

_Kind of nice and pleasant, can be fun to watch/listen to _ once in a long while for me. I almost voted for the "so-so, between good and bad" option, which suggests indifference but I think I can get a smile or a laugh if I watch one once in a long while. Does that answer anything? No, I don't consider it on par with opera and based on the few that I have seen, are a long, long way off the best of operas. They don't have the "magic" feel of operas, and feel light.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on anyone's fun, but since you asked, I found The Mikado a lengthy cringefest. I haven't been counting it as one of the operas I've experienced, preferring to edit my history so that it never happened.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I only heard two of their operettas - The Mikado and Pirates of Penzance. I prefer J.Strauss or Lehar, but the're ok.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I opted for "they're so-so" -- realizing that this is simply my reaction to them, not a comment on their actual merit. I've only heard a couple of them performed and wasn't terribly impressed. But, again, that may be a reflection on the performances themselves as much as on the operettas. As much as I enjoy 19th century English literature, much of the humor in G&S's operettas escapes me. And though I have a delightful recording of operetta arias by Wunderlich, I only have complete recordings of "_Die_ _Fledermaus_" and "_Das Land des Lächelns_" in my collection. I find operettas, like musicals, entertaining in their way, but can't work up the enthusiasm for them that I have for operas.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Ach, Gott, make that DIE Fledermaus . . .


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

MAuer said:


> Ach, Gott, make that DIE Fledermaus . . .


Done.......


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

H.M.S. Pinafore was a high school performance staple ... I was the piano accompanist when our high school performed it.

Fast forward 38 years and observed it when my son was one of the performers. 

Have seen The Mikado done with a professional groups several times ... excellent and enjoyable.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I hate operettas with a passion. Silly plots, boring two-dimensional characters and way too easily whistleable music.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> I hate operettas with a passion. Silly plots, boring two-dimensional characters and way too easily *whistleable music*.


I've always wondered what is wrong with 'whistleable music'?


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I hesitate to say that Gilbert & Sullivan (or ANY artist) is a something _every_ opera lover should have in the collection. However, the last polling option is the one that comes closest to my feelings on that matter. 

I don't think I'm saying anything too controversial by opining that _Mikado_, _Penzance_ and _Pinafore_ have separated themselves from the pack in the G & S canon. A lot of the others have their moments- but I don't think they sustain as well as those three.

Gilbert & Sullivan functions on a lot of different levels. First of all, there's humor in the text. Secondly, there's humor in the _con_text. Plenty of operatic conventions are in line for the send-ups. And I think there's nothing wrong with an opera-lover having a sense of humor about it all, and accepting it on its own terms. Finally, the best of it is very melodic- and I don't think that's anything for which any apologies need be made. 

Before entirely departing from the topic of context, I've noticed two general strains of performance with G & S. One method is treating the big tunes like theatrical show-tunes, in line with the concept that the operettas are sort of proto-musicals. The other method is to deploy big operatic voices for the showstoppers, which runs the risk of sounding like it's taking itself too seriously, but has the merit of highlighting the 'opera-spoof' elements of the pieces. Both methods have their rewards. The latter is probably more risky- but it can pay off when done well.


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

Sieglinde said:


> Silly plots, boring two-dimensional characters and way too easily whistleable music.


All things considered, 99% of all operas have silly plots and ridiculous characters.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

nickgray said:


> All things considered, 99% of all operas have silly plots and ridiculous characters.


I wouldn't say 99%. There are many operas with strong plots and well developed characters. We had a thread recently on this and we listed dozens and dozens of examples; stuff like Peter Grimes, Pelléas et Mélisande, Jenufa, The Rake's Progress, etc.


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

G&S is a joy. How can anyone resist singing along to words like these? 

Here's a first-rate opportunity
To get married with impunity,
And indulge in the felicity
Of unbounded domesticity.
You shall quickly be parsonified,
Conjugally matrimonified,
By a doctor of divinity
Who is located in this vicinity.

We have several local G&S societies and I have been taking the family to two or three performances a year for the last decade.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> I wouldn't say 99%. There are many operas with strong plots and well developed characters. We had a thread recently on this and we listed dozens and dozens of examples; stuff like Peter Grimes, Pelléas et Mélisande, Jenufa, The Rake's Progress, etc.


And opera is not like a regular book or a play. Many librettos of operas are silly if you just read them. But the're not meant to be just read. In contrast to a play there's not only text to tell the story. The music that's added to it is meant to make sense of it all because it is supposed to express what mere words can't.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Grosse Fugue said:


> I've always wondered what is wrong with 'whistleable music'?


Absolutely nothing wrong.

But some prefer the un-whistleable music of the weird electronic fart variety.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Wow, it's quite impressive to see that only 14% of our members have a negative opinion of the operettas of Gilbert and Sullivan and 73% of them have a positive opinion (with about 14 percent indifferent).

Not that I dislike them or anything, I actually voted myself with the positive camp, but I was under the impression that a majority of opera lovers disliked them rather than the other way around. This poll is a surprise for me (a nice surprise, I should say).


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

Whistleable music ! One of my friends thinks so and always says what's wrong with the people who go to the new year's concert in Vienna with Strauss family music ! They are not music lovers, they go only to have some kind of fun when clapping their hands on Radetzky March !

Well, I think it depends on the mood we have on that particular time when we choose a music to listen. Sometimes I just simply enjoy an operetta like Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado (an extraordinary fine example), sometimes I can't bear a joyful music and it must be something deep and passive like Shostakovich's No.14 ... I think human feelings can be very complicated to describe and that goes as well with our musical touch ... sorry for my poor english but you know what I mean.

So, I support the positive opinions in this thread.

Beside the operettas, I must add that one of my all-time favorites is the song *Lost Chord*, Sullivan wrote for his brother when he was very ill and it's the song Sullivan recorded in August 1888 with a short speech on phonograph. One of the first wax cylinder recordings survived of a famous composer.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Il_Penseroso said:


> Whistleable music ! One of my friends thinks so and always says what's wrong with the people who go to the new year's concert in Vienna with Strauss family music ! They are not music lovers, they go only to have some kind of fun when clapping their hands on Radetzky March !
> 
> Well, I think it depends on the mood we have on that particular time when we choose a music to listen. Sometimes I just simply enjoy an operetta like Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado (an extraordinary fine example), sometimes I can't bear a joyful music and it must be something deep and passive like Shostakovich's No.14 ... I think human feelings can be very complicated to describe and that goes as well with our musical touch ... sorry for my poor english but you know what I mean.
> 
> ...


:tiphat: I know exactly what you mean Il_Penseroso & I agree with you. I listen to happy opera (like G&S) when I'm happy but when I'm sad I have to listen to sad opera.


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

sospiro said:


> :tiphat: I know exactly what you mean Il_Penseroso & I agree with you. I listen to happy opera (like G&S) when I'm happy but when I'm sad I have to listen to sad opera.


Thanks, Sospiro ...


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I voted on the positive part, but I just listened to Princess Ida, then excerpts from Donizetti's Maria Stuarda (on my TV opera plus program). Although I could not tell what is so different, but my God, it really is. After Donizetti, now comes Rossini. They are not in the same league, by any means.
May be it's wrong that I compare opera to operetta, but Princess Ida was operatically sang, so maybe it's just the English language...and the composing styles.
I need to see more Sullivan operas...to get a stronger idea.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I have tried but G & S leave me totally cold (and yes, I don't mind operetta at all). I explained my reasons on a previous thread some time ago but was then hectored by another member on the grounds that my dislike of them was lacking solid foundation (in other words, I hadn't give them, especially Sullivan, enough of a chance) so I don't want to risk raking all that up again.


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## Geoff48 (Aug 15, 2020)

I recently took two friends to see Opera North present two one act Operas: cavalleria Rusticana and Trial by Jury. Neither had been to the opera before.
Both loved Cav. One found Trial a little difficult to understand but the other loved it and came out of the theatre humming the tunes. Subsequently we went to see a semi professional Yeomen. Again the first found it didn’t make sense, the other loved the show especially the choral passages.
I guess this is G &S. Love or or loathe it. And I am most definitely in the first group. As is one of my friends who is waiting to be introduced to the other operas as soon as lock down is over.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I think they are (with one or two exceptions) superb _operettas_. I really like operetta and it is a shame that they aren't fashionable at the moment in our worthy age. The G&S canon of fourteen works is remarkable for how high in quality the overall majority of them are and how amateur companies up and down the UK and all across the US have kept them alive.

They shouldn't really be compared with the comic operas of Rossini and Donizetti, but rather with other operettas and the genres that preceded them (such as opera comique).

N.


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## SONDEK (Sep 29, 2017)

I voted A LITTLE ANNOYING AND MUSICALLY WEAK.

The one exception in my collection is the following cheery little number on a mint UK first pressing LP.

Marvellously played and recorded - and musically a lot of fun. (And none of the annoying singing... ~lol)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Everyone who enjoys Gilbert & Sullivan should listen to Anna Russell's dead-on sendup, set among New York's upper crust and starring, among other memorable characters, Pneumonia Vanderfeller and Clodbelly Bunyan, whose patter song is worthy of its models.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I never listen to them. I know they have good aspects, but the style is not to my taste.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Superbly crafted operettas. Gilbert was a near-genius wordsmith and Sullivan composed music of the highest order. I've attended performances of most of the works, from amateur productions to high-end ENO professional performances. Couldn't live without G&S!!!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I have two favorites, mostly because of movies:

*The Mikado*, thanks to The Criterion Collection. I've got their reconstruction of the 1939 movie of the same name; and the movie about the composition of it from the film *Topsy Turvy*.

*The Pirates of Penzance*, a delightful romp with Linda Ronstadt, Rex Smith, Kevin Kline, and Angela Lansbury (she turns up in the oddest projects). I understand it's not _pure_ *Pirates *, but has some added music.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

My grandmother introduced me to G&S when I was very young, and I played the Captain of the Pinafore at about age 12. I grew out of them by the time I was 20. I'll stream one about once a year.

The exception is the Kevin Kline/Linda Ronstadt _Pirates_. I saw that twice on stage, and I've watched the less successful film adaptation. It's the only G&S CD I own. It's zany fun.

Oddly enough I posted about it this past week in the Singing and Dancing thread.


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