# Ian Moravec's Complete Recordings of Chopin's Nocturnes



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

These recordings floor me every time. They are just so sensual and beautiful. Take a listen for yourself.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

They are damn good, beautiful, if slightly one-dimensional. Lately however I have been on Claudio Arrau's Chopin Nocturnes. I think he is able to illustrate more meaning in some of the Nocturnes than is Moravec. But as this thread is dedicated to Moravec and not Arrau, all I'll say is that I'll probably buy the Moravec Chopin Nocturnes on CD a few months down the line, once I have gotten more listening in on the Arrau set.

PS. Likely just a typo, but the performer's name is Ivan Moravec, not Ian.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> They are damn good, beautiful, if slightly one-dimensional. Lately however I have been on Claudio Arrau's Chopin Nocturnes. I think he is able to illustrate more meaning in some of the Nocturnes than is Moravec. But as this thread is dedicated to Moravec and not Arrau, all I'll say is that I'll probably buy the Moravec Chopin Nocturnes on CD a few months down the line, once I have gotten more listening in on the Arrau set.
> 
> PS. Likely just a typo, but the performer's name is Ivan Moravec, not Ian.


Yes, I know it's Ivan. A typo indeed! :tiphat:


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Pianists who can play Chopin and make you forget that the piano has hammers are my favorite. Moravec's level of control, voicing, legato in these recordings is something special. I only wish he wouldn't treat them as so strictly "melody over accompaniment" and emphasize a bit more of the counterpoint at times. My top choice for a full set next to Arrau and Ashkenazy.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Moravec’s recording of the Polonaise-fantaisie is beyond amazing and his Ballade recordings are great as well


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I can stream the Moravec set from my library but haven't yet. I greatly enjoy Harasiewicz for the full set and Schmalfuss for the ones he recorded. I will give Moravec a listen however, I certainly like his playing elsewhere.


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## mark6144 (Apr 6, 2019)

I recently tried out the Moravec alongside every other set available on Spotify. Nice, but my winner is Tamas Vasary. Sadly there are a few missing; I fill the gaps with Ashkenazy.

I find it hard to describe what makes one interpretation preferable to another for these works, because subtleties can make such a huge difference.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I didn't realise Moravec had recorded the Nocturnes: another one for the collection. I have his recording of Debussy's Images, and he treats those lacy pieces with the same delicacy and precision that he brings to the nocturne in the posted example. My two favourite Nocturne sets (currently) are Arrau and Pollini - very different. Engerer is also worth a listen.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

He's better known for his Chopin than his Beethoven, but I find I much prefer his Beethoven. Plus his set leaves out the best nocturne, the op posth Lento con gran espressione in c sharp minor.



mark6144 said:


> I find it hard to describe what makes one interpretation preferable to another for these works, because subtleties can make such a huge difference.


I think Chopin's compositions are uniquely reliant on the performer. A dull or unimaginative pianist can make even the best of Chopin's pieces seem workaday, but a great one can make the slightest mazurka seem the greatest of compositions.

A lot of nocturne recordings are pretty soporific--Moravec's less than some but more than others. Part of it is his rhythm--his is fairly regular and steady, and I think a regular pulse deadens solo Chopin, especially the nocturnes.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

howlingfantods said:


> I think Chopin's compositions are uniquely reliant on the performer. A dull or unimaginative pianist can make even the best of Chopin's pieces seem workaday, but a great one can make the slightest mazurka seem the greatest of compositions.
> 
> A lot of nocturne recordings are pretty soporific--Moravec's less than some but more than others. Part of it is his rhythm--his is fairly regular and steady, and I think a regular pulse deadens solo Chopin, especially the nocturnes.


This is very true. That's probably the biggest thing about Moravec that stands in my way of enjoyment, and also one of the reasons why Rubinstein doesn't do it for me in most things. And for those who think the mazurkas are trivial, listen to Ignaz Friedman or Arturo Michelangeli play them.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> He's better known for his Chopin than his Beethoven, but I find I much prefer his Beethoven. Plus his set leaves out the best nocturne, the op posth Lento con gran espressione in c sharp minor.
> 
> I think Chopin's compositions are uniquely reliant on the performer. A dull or unimaginative pianist can make even the best of Chopin's pieces seem workaday, but a great one can make the slightest mazurka seem the greatest of compositions.
> 
> A lot of nocturne recordings are pretty soporific--Moravec's less than some but more than others. Part of it is his rhythm--his is fairly regular and steady, and I think a regular pulse deadens solo Chopin, especially the nocturnes.


You may have stated something there. I find many Nocturne recordings sounding about the same. Who recorded them different?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> You may have stated something there. I find many Nocturne recordings sounding about the same. Who recorded them different?


Maria Tipo
John Khouri
Alexis Weissenberg
Luc Devos
Vladimir Sofronitsky
Jan Smeterlin


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

You should hear Moravec doing the two Brahms Concertos. Wonderful, simply wonderful!


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

CnC Bartok said:


> You should hear Moravec doing the two Brahms Concertos. Wonderful, simply wonderful!


For me, the first is pretty good but the second is pretty close my least favorite version of the recordings I own--he just sounds entirely too placid for a piece that I think calls for the opposite.

As I mentioned before, where I think Moravec is truly outstanding is his Beethoven--his 4th concerto is a real contender, and his Moonlight is bar none my favorite by a sizable margin--he does some outstanding things with the left hand in the fast movement, it's truly exceptional.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Maria Tipo
> John Khouri
> Alexis Weissenberg
> Luc Devos
> ...


Not sure if we're listing out the unique ones or the recommended ones, but the ones that stand out to me as pretty unique takes are the Francois and the Vasary that Mark mentioned. Cortot, too, but he only recorded a few.

Also being the Sokolov fanatic I am, I listen most often to the 10 or so nocturne bootlegs I've been able to find of his. Superb, although the sound is not great.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

There are many fine sets of the complete Chopin Nocturnes that I admire & treasure. Ivan Moravec's 1966 Connoisseur Society recording (which was initially recorded in AAD and later reissued by Nonesuch in AAD & then Ultima and Supraphon in ADD) certainly figures near the top, but he has a lot of company--particularly from Arrau, François, Novães, Jonas (not a complete set), Askenase, Reissenberg, and Czerny-Stefanska--who are all likewise exceptional in this music, but also Pires, Ashkenazy, Vasary, and other more recent pianists:

Arrau: 



François: 



Novães: 








Jonas: 



Askenase: 



Reisenberg:



Czerny-Stefanska: 



Pires: 




However, in Chopin's 24 Preludes, I've long felt that Moravec's 1976 recording for Supraphon gets underrated. If pressed to pick only one recording of these works for my desert island, I'd be inclined to choose that recording. Moravec's earlier 1965 recording of the 24 Preludes for the Connoisseur Society label is also very fine, but his playing can at times become on the slow side--at least for me, & I slightly prefer the 2nd recording (how do others feel?):

24 Preludes (1965, Connnoiseur Society): 



24 Preludes (1976, Supraphon): 



https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-24-Preludes-Ballade-No4/dp/B000003521

(There's also a "Live in Prague" Moravec recording of the Preludes nos. 17-24 that is excellent, too: 



.)

I could say much the same thing about Moravec's playing of Chopin's 4 Ballades--which is another remarkable, stand out Chopin recording: 




Apart from his Chopin playing, I'd say that Moravec was at his best in the music of his native Czech homeland--particularly Janacek (and Suk & Korte), and in the French repertory--Debussy, Ravel, & Franck; as well as in the romantic era music of Schumann & Brahms--such as his Schumann Kinderszenen (which Moravec recorded twice for Supraphon & Nonesuch, the latter being a 1980s digital recording) and Piano Concerto, and his Brahms Intermezzi, Op. 117 & 2 Piano Concertos. He was also a great Mozart and Haydn pianist. I only wish that he had recorded more Haydn. As others have pointed out, Moravec's Beethoven is excellent too. I've probably most liked his Piano Sonata no. 15, op. 28 "Pastorale" among his Beethoven recordings, but they're all very good:

Franck, Ravel, & Debussy: 




Debussy Images, Books 1 & 2:









Janacek, "Into the Mists": 



Janacek, Sonata I. X. 1905: 



Janacek, "On an Overgrown Path" (selections): 




Schumann, Kinderszenen (the 1982 Nonesuch recording): 



Schumann, Piano Concerto: 



Brahms, Intermezzo, Op. 117, no. 3: 




Mozart Piano Concertos: 









Haydn, Piano Sonata in D Major, Presto ma non troppo: 




Beethoven Piano Sonata no. 15, Op. 29 "Pastorale": 




A more recent discovery for me has been a recording of Moravec playing the piano concertos of Grieg, Ravel, & Prokofiev, & I think it's an exceptional CD (especially the Ravel): 




Lastly, I'd strongly recommend the 2 CD Moravec set from the Philips Great Pianists Series, which includes a very well chosen selection of recordings that I've mentioned above--drawn from his Chopin, Debussy, Franck, & Ravel): https://www.amazon.com/Ivan-Moravec-Great-Pianists-Century/dp/B00000I0LI

I saw Moravec twice in concert. The first time was a solo recital that he gave on November 27, 2001 in New York City, following the terrorist attacks on 911. The city was still in the aftermath of the atrocities, and I was impressed by the sensitivity & empathy that Moravec showed, when he decided at the last minute that the program he had intended to play that night wasn't appropriate for the audience. So he changed it & played an entirely different program, beginning with Janacek's Sonata 1. X. 1905, followed by Debussy & Chopin. I felt that that showed a lot about who Moravec was as a human being. The concert is on You Tube: 



.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Maria Tipo
> John Khouri
> Alexis Weissenberg
> Luc Devos
> ...


Huh, I have heard none of these.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> These recordings floor me every time. They are just so sensual and beautiful. Take a listen for yourself.


Moravec is a great choice for the Chopin Nocturnes, near the top for me, though there are many other good choices mentioned here (and others I'm not familiar with). I agree with the comment above about his Beethoven, too. I'd love to have a complete Beethoven sonata cycle from him, but I'm glad for what is available.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Huh, I have heard none of these.


Tipo and Sofro, they are definitely worth seeking out. Smeterlin is very listenable, once I start I can't stop.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Tipo and Sofro, they are definitely worth seeking out. Smeterlin is very listenable, once I start I can't stop.


How is the sound on Sofronitsky's Nocturnes? Many of his Scriabin recordings are quite passable, but some of the other things I've heard are nigh unlistenable.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Sofronitsky thought he discovered a radically new approach to Chopin towards the end of his life, a purer and simpler approach. He left a few Nocturnes from this period, most memorably op 27/1 and op 27/2. The sound is good.

But the core Sofronitsky Chopin recital is from 1949, a concert in Japan I think, released on Denon with perfectably listenable sound, and I have an amateur transfer of the original Melodyia LPs which is slightly better. There is, for example, an op 48/1.

These are the 1949 and 1960 releases I have, though there may be others now, and these may be hard to find. I haven't checked youtube.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Sofronitsky thought he discovered a radically new approach to Chopin towards the end of his life, a purer and simpler approach. He left a few Nocturnes from this period, most memorably op 27/1 and op 27/2. The sound is good.
> 
> But the core Sofronitsky Chopin recital is from 1949, a concert in Japan I think, released on Denon with perfectably listenable sound, and I have an amateur transfer of the original Melodyia LPs which is slightly better. There is, for example, an op 48/1.
> 
> ...


I'm going to track down that Denon release. That looks like a gem.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> I'm going to track down that Denon release. That looks like a gem.


It includes the complete preludes. A performance which reeks of death. The recitals (25 Nov and 20 Oct 1949) were part of a festival celebrating the 100th anniversary of Chopin's death.

There were quite a few Denon Sofro CDs.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> It includes the complete preludes. A performance which reeks of death. The recitals (25 Nov and 20 Oct 1949) were part of a festival celebrating the 100th anniversary of Chopin's death.
> 
> There were quite a few Denon Sofro CDs.


There's a Scriabin recital disc I want too, a 2CD I think.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I may have to get the Arrau.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Anyone else feel these works are more New Age than Classical? Still beautiful though. I got this idea from someone else, but I agree with them.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Anyone else feel these works are more New Age than Classical? Still beautiful though. I got this idea from someone else, but I agree with them.


Apart from the triptych structure, I think they are like classical fantasias, Mozart 394 for example.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I bought the DG box set of Pires solo recordings last year. Saving the Nocturnes for last. I also have Moravec, Arrau, and Rubinstein (2[?] Versions as part of his megabox).


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I have been testing my ears by putting both the Moravec and Arrau on shuffle. The CA seems brighter and Ivan, softer and smoother.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Alex Ross, the great music critic for the New Yorker, had an article on the Nocturnes earlier this year. This is his summary paragraph:

"There is no lack of great accounts of the Nocturnes in the catalogue: the robust elegance of the younger Arthur Rubinstein, the grandeur of Claudio Arrau, the fine-spun melancholy of Ivan Moravec, the vibrant lyricism of Maria João Pires, the unaffected poetry of the late Brazilian Nelson Freire. I have no hesitation about placing Hough in that company. On many moonlit nights, his version will be the one I reach for first."

The younger Rubinstein refers to the cycle he recorded in the 30s (included in the mega-box).


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Daniel Barenboim, -Adam Harasiewicz , Yundi and Jan Lisiecki have all good recordings.


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