# Part: Mirror in Mirror



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Listened to Aarvo Part's Mirror in Mirror yesterday, the version for cello and piano.

It's decent meditation music, for getting to the first plateau. Not calling it 'meditative', because that ain't in it.

The occasional low note from the piano may even be intrusive - or an assist - depending on where you are at.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Is there such a thing as meditative music? I always find it too interesting, even "ambient" music. 

On the other hand I've probably never achieved meditation. I fall asleep. There doesn't seem to be any way around that for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Weston said:


> Is there such a thing as meditative music? I always find it too interesting, even "ambient" music.
> 
> On the other hand I've probably never achieved meditation. I fall asleep. There doesn't seem to be any way around that for me.


I know the feeling, same here .


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2016)

Weston said:


> Is there such a thing as meditative music? I always find it too interesting, even "ambient" music.
> 
> On the other hand I've probably never achieved meditation. I fall asleep. There doesn't seem to be any way around that for me.


I don't think meditation is primarily about putting oneself in an uninteresting environment. Music can be one way of providing a focus to pay attention to.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Weston said:


> Is there such a thing as meditative music? I always find it too interesting, even "ambient" music.


I bought a track from Amazon with ambient sounds and alpha waves somehow hidden in it to make sleep deeper. I went to sleep with it on, but two hours later I woke up with a headache. I guess I'm even trying to pay attention when I'm not awake.

Meditation was mentioned in the OP. Personally, I use music like the Part piece mentioned to practice keeping myself in the moment. I have heard people call that practicing mindfulness. I don't know; I'm just trying to tone down my mind from its usual habit of jumping all over the place.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Manxfeeder said:


> I bought a track from Amazon with ambient sounds and alpha waves somehow hidden in it to make sleep deeper. I went to sleep with it on, but two hours later I woke up with a headache. I guess I'm even trying to pay attention when I'm not awake.
> 
> Meditation was mentioned in the OP. Personally, I use music like the Part piece mentioned to practice keeping myself in the moment. I have heard people call that practicing mindfulness. I don't know; I'm just trying to tone down my mind from its usual habit of jumping all over the place.


I am not 'up' on meditation practices in general, but my own version of it requires focus on a single simple activity to get to the first level of separation, with just enough intrusion to harden the focus. The Part piece has those elements.

I have suggested a couple other methods for getting to that level to member _clavichorder_, but they require more physical fitness than I now possess.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I really had no idea anyone was writing music like this. I was totally perplexed by it, I really don't see why anyone would write it unless it's for money or something like that.

Anyway, it's not serious, it's not classical music, art music, as far as I can hear.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Somehow every time I this thread title I think it's going to be about sheet music for the various part for Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror," and then I'm disappointed when I remember it's really about a lesser piece of music.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Probably better known as "Spiegel im Spiegel". Music for singular circumstances, certainly. For me, preferable to most of the Glass/Reich factory products.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_im_Spiegel


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

A beautiful piece of serious and artistic classical music.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Q: Why is a half-completed kitchen the same as Holy Minimalism?

A: They're both kitch.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Anyway, it's not serious, it's not classical music, art music, as far as I can hear.


It always somehow reminds me of Ennio Morricone. But, you know, less good.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Probably better known as "Spiegel im Spiegel".
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_im_Spiegel


I wondered why I'd not heard of it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Musical lobotomy.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2016)

Ukko said:


> Listened to Aarvo Part's Mirror in Mirror yesterday, *the version for cello and piano*.
> It's decent meditation music, for getting to the first plateau. Not calling it 'meditative', because that ain't in it.
> The occasional low note from the piano may even be intrusive - or an assist - depending on where you are at.


Just asking: would listening to the same piece for *viola and piano* be equally efficacious for reaching the first plateau?


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Musical lobotomy.


Harsh, Ducks, harsh. I'm quite "OK" with much of Pärt's _oeuvre_, but I do think this piece lends itself better to film accompaniment rather than a stand-alone chamber piece.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Musical lobotomy.


Reminds me of John Adams, quoting his friend Marcel Proost who has taken a break from marijuana growing and gotten a job as a music critic. "Minimalism? Check your brain at the door."


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Ukko said:


> Listened to Aarvo Part's Mirror in Mirror yesterday, the version for cello and piano.
> 
> It's decent meditation music, for getting to the first plateau. Not calling it 'meditative', because that ain't in it.


Well, no, because this is Christian Minimalism. Meditation would be heresy.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Overheard in a Starbuck's: "We only listen to smart music which has a literal narrative thread (like a book or TV show), in which events happen in sequence according to a pre-planned schema, which we analyze, and had to learn about form; because this music reflects our lifestyle: uniform, continuous, orderly, and connected, and above all, in control and conscious."


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Woodduck said:


> Musical lobotomy.


Really? One could almost say the same for this Beethoven movement, or parts of it anyway.






But to be fair I tend to agree with you.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Weston said:


> Really? *One* could almost say the same for this Beethoven movement, or parts of it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not _this_ "one" !!!!!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> Well, no, because this is Christian Minimalism. Meditation would be heresy.


I think Thomas Merton would disagree with you. I mean, if he were still around to be able to disagree with you.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Father Merton, O.C.S.O., should have meditated on the wisdom of fiddling with electric appliances while in the bathtub.

And millions, what do you think St. Simeon the Stylite was doing on top of that pillar for 37 years? Playing Donkey Kong?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Ukko said:


> I am not 'up' on meditation practices in general, but my own version of it requires focus on a single simple activity to get to the first level of separation, with just enough intrusion to harden the focus. The Part piece has those elements.
> 
> I have suggested a couple other methods for getting to that level to member _clavichorder_, but they require more physical fitness than I now possess.


Does sanding wood count? How about polishing pianos? That's practically what I'm doing for work these days... Maybe it will lead me to the wood chopping arena one of these days.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Musical lobotomy.


Hey Dim7, that sounds right up our alley!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> I really had no idea anyone was writing music like this. I was totally perplexed by it, I really don't see why anyone would write it unless it's for money or something like that.
> 
> Anyway, it's not serious, it's not classical music, art music, as far as I can hear.





Hildadam Bingor said:


> Q: Why is a half-completed kitchen the same as Holy Minimalism?
> 
> A: They're both kitch.





Woodduck said:


> Musical lobotomy.


The forum had been pretty quiet about this sort of thing lately, so it's a shame to see the attacks on contemporary music starting up again.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Nereffid said:


> The forum had been pretty quiet about this sort of thing lately, so it's a shame to see the attacks on contemporary music starting up again.


Some people just like rattling other peoples cages.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Nereffid said:


> The forum had been pretty quiet about this sort of thing lately, so it's a shame to see the attacks on contemporary music starting up again.


An attack specifically on holy minimalism is no more an attack on contemporary music in general today that an attack specifically on Gounod would have been an attack on contemporary music in general 150 years ago.

In both cases, the attack may very well be somewhat unfair - but fairness is for after the beast is down.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I really had no idea anyone was writing music like this. I was totally perplexed by it, I really don't see why anyone would write it unless it's for money or something like that.
> 
> Anyway, it's not serious, it's not classical music, art music, as far as I can hear.


It is very impressionistic, kind of musical pointillism, but in most modern minimalistic music there is a discrepancy between the duration of the piece and its musical content, and this is also true of this piece, which fast gets too repetitive.

However if it is meant as music for meditation, it will deservedly very early in the process get relegated to the background of one's attention.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

TalkingHead said:


> Just asking: would listening to the same piece for *viola and piano* be equally efficacious for reaching the first plateau?


My speculative answer is 'yes'. Mind you, the 'equally' cuts both ways.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

TalkingHead said:


> Harsh, Ducks, harsh. I'm quite "OK" with much of Pärt's _oeuvre_, but I do think this piece lends itself better to film accompaniment rather than a stand-alone chamber piece.


 S'truth, some folks may need a visual assist - perhaps a painting of a dripping faucet?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm afraid I found nothing interesting in this. I do like some other music by Part.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I liked it. 
~~~~~~


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## Adam Weber (Apr 9, 2015)

I like Spiegel im Spiegel, which apparently means I like an overlong, kitschy musical lobotomy...  :lol:

Seriously, though, I hope no one's using Spiegel im Spiegel to judge Pärt's oeuvre, because it's _massively_ more simplistic than anything else he's written.

This is a much better representation of Pärt's music:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

^^^^ I've shared this to my Facebook page & am listening to it. I love it - thank you! :tiphat:


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2016)

Adam Weber said:


> I like Spiegel im Spiegel, which apparently means I like an overlong, kitschy musical lobotomy...  :lol:
> 
> Seriously, though, I hope no one's using Spiegel im Spiegel to judge Pärt's oeuvre, because it's _massively_ more simplistic than anything else he's written.
> 
> This is a much better representation of Pärt's music:


That is a fabulous album indeed. Just looking at the cover gives me a lobotomy.


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## Spawnofsatan (Aug 5, 2016)

I love some of Part's music, especially choral stuff. There is something deeply profound to me there!


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> ^^^^ I've shared this to my Facebook page & am listening to it. I love it - thank you! :tiphat:


This is in similar vein:

View attachment 87326


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

dogen said:


> This is in similar vein:
> 
> View attachment 87326


Thanks, dogen. :tiphat: I will check that out.
I knew nothing whatever of Arvo Part before this thread. 
This is what Talk Classical is all about - sharing, recommending, celebrating music.


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## Spawnofsatan (Aug 5, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> Thanks, dogen. :tiphat: I will check that out.
> I knew nothing whatever of Arvo Part before this thread.
> This is what Talk Classical is all about - sharing, recommending, celebrating music.


I've found the right forum then! 
I'm glad there are other people that appreciate modern stuff!


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Not in the same vein: Pärt's Symphony no. 2, which makes use of rubber duckies.

I like his Symphony no. 3, which is neither his early Modernist or later minimalist/tintinnabuli style.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Ukko said:


> I am not 'up' on meditation practices in general, but my own version of it requires focus on a single simple activity to get to the first level of separation, with just enough intrusion to harden the focus. The Part piece has those elements.
> 
> I have suggested a couple other methods for getting to that level to member _clavichorder_, but they require more physical fitness than I now possess.


The musical work I go to for this - I won't describe it as true meditation, mindfulness may be closer - is Morton Feldman's "Piano and String Quartet." Can't say I've been able to maintain it for the entire 80 minutes; I max out at about 30.

My favorite way of listening to Spiegel im Spiegel is while watching Wendy Whalen dance to it ("After the Rain" choreographed by Christopher Wheeldon). Here is a film featuring Maria Kowroski, another New York City Ballet dancer. Actually, I think the camera gets in the way of the dancers.


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