# Favorite Cello Concertos?



## ladyrebecca

I am quickly becoming a fan of the Lalo Cello Concerto. I suppose Haydn's 2nd is also very well known, and I like Saint-Saens' No. 1. My favorite concerto featuring cello is the Brahms Double. 

I would say I have been less enthusiastic about the Boccherini cello concerti I've heard. 

Any recommendations for this form? What are your favorites?


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## Art Rock

Dvorak
Elgar
Moeran
Finzi


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## handlebar

Oh where to start?? Dvorak, all the Boccherini cello concerti,Saint-Saens,Wieniawski's concerti, Moeran's concerto,Bax Cello concerto.The Elgar is one of the best ever written IMHO.

Jim


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## emiellucifuge

Shostakovich!!!!!!


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## Scott Good

ladyrebecca said:


> I am quickly becoming a fan of the Lalo Cello Concerto. I suppose Haydn's 2nd is also very well known, and I like Saint-Saens' No. 1. My favorite concerto featuring cello is the Brahms Double.
> 
> I would say I have been less enthusiastic about the Boccherini cello concerti I've heard.
> 
> Any recommendations for this form? What are your favorites?


There are several "need to know" cello concertos. It is an obvious favorite of many composers, with it's incredible range and expressive power.

Haydn Cmaj is great!
Dvorak's concerto for cello is perhaps my favorite work of his. I would say the same for Elgar and Schumann as well. Max Bruch's "Kol Nidre" is a fine work.
Vivaldi has piles of good concertos for cello or sometimes, 2 cellos.

My absolute favorite is Shostakovitch #1 - exquisite music, very intense. I love how the cello comes in right off the top, and the whole transition from slow movement to cadenza to finale is for me, perfection of musical form and drama. I also like his 2nd concerto. It's rather introspective - quite unique.

For a more modern feel, Ligeti's work is quite an interesting work.

Also, "The Protecting Veil" of Taverner is actually quite an engaging work.

And, for lighter fare, I just heard the Rococo Variations of Tchaikovsky - solid and engaging work.


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## Jules141

Elgar's concerto is the only one I'm fully aware of, although I actually quite like Ligeti's cello concerto, but only heard it a few times.


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## symphonicrevolution

I'm not a huge fan of the Lalo or the Saint-Saens, mostly because I don't think the melodic material is as captivating as that of other concertos. Also, Lalo's orchestration is a little boring especially for the rest of the orchestra.

Here are some of my favorites:
Elgar (especially du Pre's recording)
Dvorak (especially Rostropovich, especially the second movement)
Finzi 
Schumann
Beethoven Triple Concerto
Brahms Double Concerto

It's really too bad the current cello repertoire is so limited in terms of what people actually play. You just hear the same things over and over - Dvorak, Elgar, Haydn, etc - without anything really "new".


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## Guest

In case you haven't caught on yet, I'll repeat this one:
Elgar's Cello Concerto - phenomenal, especially if you get the recording by Jacqueline du Pre and John Barbirolli!

After that, Dvorak's Cello Concertos is a very close second, in my opinion. I love the recording by Rostropovich and von Karajan.

Those two are some of the most listened to pieces in my library. The Shostakovich Cello Concerto (I believe it is No. 1) is nice as well, but doesn't move me like the Elgar or Dvorak. I have that one also by Rostropovich and Ormandy, paired with Shostakovich's Violin Concerto No. 1 with Oistrakh and Mitropoulos.


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## Tapkaara

I believe the correct term is "favorite cello concerti."

Anyway, Khachaturian and Rozsa.


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## Conor71

Elgar, Haydn (both) & Shostakovich (both)


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## Weston

Somewhat in order or favorites (this week):

1. Shostakovich No. 1 with Rostrapovich. Of course it was written for him.
2. Elgar with de Pre - again.
3. Can I count Beethoven's Triple Concerto for piano, violin, and cello?
4. Two Haydn Cello concerti in D and C, Hob. VIIb. I rather enjoy these. I don't know if he wrote more, but I'd like to hear them.

Some cello concerti I have in my collection, but I can't honestly say I remember them:

Dvorak
2 by Kabelevsky
CPE Bach in A
several by Boccerini. (I actually enjoy the guitar quintets a lot more.)
Lalo in Dm (???) 
Prokofiev in E minor 
Saint-Saens in Dm 
Schumann in Am

These latter must not have made an impression on me yet. Actually the Elgar didn't either until recently, so there is hope.


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## Tapkaara

No one has picked up on my snooty "concerti" comment yet. Hmmm...


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## ladyrebecca

Wow, great recommendations everyone -- thanks. I guess I'll continue with du Pré's Elgar, but I look forward to getting into the other concerTOES. 



Tapkaara said:


> I believe the correct term is "favorite cello concerti."
> 
> Anyway, Khachaturian and Rozsa.





Tapkaara said:


> No one has picked up on my snooty "concerti" comment yet. Hmmm...


ps. for the record I DID get it right in the post, right? Right? Anyone?


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## Tapkaara

ladyrebecca said:


> Wow, great recommendations everyone -- thanks. I guess I'll continue with du Pré's Elgar, but I look forward to getting into the other concerTOES.
> 
> ps. for the record I DID get it right in the post, right? Right? Anyone?


Heeeheeeheee...

The Khachaturian and Rozsa are great big, dramatic works. Khachaturian's own instrument was the cello, by the way, so I understand the solo cello part in this work is very "idiomatic."


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## JSK

I like the Khachaturian a lot, though mostly for that amazing first movement! With both works taken whole, I prefer the violin concerto.


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## GraemeG

Elgar. Then daylight.
Then Dvorak and Shostakovich 1.
Then all the rest.

If I had it in my power I would destroy Lalo's D minor concerto.
I've played in the orchestra for performances. 
It's the most incompetent piece of music ever written, with the possible exception of Franck's symphony in the same key...
Graeme


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## ladyrebecca

GraemeG said:


> If I had it in my power I would destroy Lalo's D minor concerto.
> I've played in the orchestra for performances.
> It's the most incompetent piece of music ever written, with the possible exception of Franck's symphony in the same key...
> Graeme


Hi GraemeG, thanks for your input. However, I don't think a comment like this is really useful or instructive to understand why you feel this way about the piece. Could you enlighten us as to what's so abhorrent about it?


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## Lukecash12

Schumann...


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## emiellucifuge

ladyrebecca said:


> Hi GraemeG, thanks for your input. However, I don't think a comment like this is really useful or instructive to understand why you feel this way about the piece. Could you enlighten us as to what's so abhorrent about it?


I would really like to know as well!

Im not too familiar with the Lalo, but the Franck is a masterpiece and Ive done the score.


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## Sid James

Some of my favourite cello concertos:

Lutoslawski (surprised no-one has mentioned this - one of the best of the C20th)
Dutilleux
Hovhaness
Prokofiev - Symphony-Concerto
Myaskovsky
Britten - Cello Symphony
Shostakovich - I especially like the 2nd, much more experimental than the first, sounds very avant-garde, even today
Penderecki - No. 1: brutal
Walton
Frank Martin
Bloch - Voice in the Wilderness: epic


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## Sorin Eushayson

Vivaldi.

Vivaldi Vivaldi Vivaldi.

Did I mention Vivaldi?


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## GraemeG

ladyrebecca said:


> Hi GraemeG, thanks for your input. However, I don't think a comment like this is really useful or instructive to understand why you feel this way about the piece. Could you enlighten us as to what's so abhorrent about it?


I hardly know where to begin!
Lalo's concerto just sounds like someone writing to a formula, and rather badly. There's this lumpen 'theme', for want of a better word, which he's devised, not in the least melodic, and he's chosen to attempt to wedge it into a 12/8 rhythm. The orchestra makes these great crashing chords on the last beat, which I imagine are supposed to sound dramatic, but which just swerve between discordant and comic, all the while the cello wrestles with the turgid struggle of trying to fit all the pointless semi-quavers (or even demi-semis, for all I know) in between. (sixteenth & thirty-seconds for the yanks). It doesn't go anywhere, it just thrashes about until it lies dead and gasping on the podium. Really, it's just indefensible. I don't think the 2nd & third movements are so bad, but I've already lost my appetite (& stomach contents) after the first.

The Franck suffers from endless banality. I'll concede the middle movement is pleasant enough, but the outer movements merely replay their respective vulgar themes (one each) over and over, between a lot of chromatic shuffling and murmuring. Pile one augmented fourth upon another and then - presto - here's exactly the same tune again, in a different key. Whoopee!
You can keep it. 
Graeme


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## SamGuss

Ever since I got into classical music, the Cello has been my favorite instrument. When it comes to sonata's and concerto's, I am much more apt to give the Cello a go, than one featuring violin or piano (though these too can be enjoyable).

There are 3 main Cellist that I prefer:

- Jacquiline du'Pre
- Mstislav Rostropovich
- Pablo Casals

IMO - and your mileage may vary - identifying the Cellist that you really like can go far in introducing you to new Cello music. If you fnd you like more than one, even better, as each brings his/her "feel" to the music that makes each recording unique and refreshing.

As for my current (and most of these long-time) favorites:

Dvork Cello Concerto. I like Rostropovich/Karajan on DG probably the best.
Saint-Saens Cello Concerto. I like du'Pre's touch on this one.
Beethoven's Cello works. I like Casals approach.

Don't be afraid of once you find a particular favorite Cello piece, to broaden out and listen to other ensembles and Cellist for their particular sound that they bring to the piece. This advice would go for any form of classical music of course.

Enjoy!


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## maestro267

ladyrebecca said:


> Wow, great recommendations everyone -- thanks. I guess I'll continue with du Pré's Elgar, but I look forward to getting into the other concerTOES.
> 
> ps. for the record I DID get it right in the post, right? Right? Anyone?


Both terms are correct. I say 'concertos' cos I'm not Italian.

There will always be some...


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## Artemis

Probably like many people, I used to enjoy Elgar's Cello Concerto with Du Pre, but this work has rather lost its sparkle (for me at least) through over-exposure. It's still a great work though, albeit a bit of a tear-jerker, which type of music I have rather gone off.

Back in the 18th C, I like several of Vivaldi's cello concertos. I believe he wrote about 25 in total. 

I guess my overall current favourite would be Schumann's Cello Concerto. I like the version by Steven Isserlis best of all. 

Another good one is Saint-Saens Cello Concerto No 1, Op 33. My version features Andre Navarra.

The two cello concertos by Haydn are very good. 

Unfortunately, WAM didn't write one, which is a great petty. Nor did Beethoven (except the Triple). An even greater pity is that Schubert also did not write a cello concerto. I don't like Brahms Triple.

Among 20th C works, I like Shostakovich's Cello Concerto No 1. The version I have features Daniel Muller-Shott.


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## emiellucifuge

Dvorak may be my favorite composer, but I fail to really appreciate the cello concerto. It just seems a bit silly to me with amateurish themes. 

For me nothing beats the Shostakovich 1st, it is so full of fury and venom - I just love it. I have the recording with Haitink and the Concertgebouw and Lynn Harrell as soloist.
Ive never heard of Lynn Harrell, anyone familiar?


Maybe its just your recording of the Lalo?


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## Artemis

emiellucifuge said:


> Dvorak may be my favorite composer, but I fail to really appreciate the cello concerto. It just seems a bit silly to me with amateurish themes.
> 
> For me nothing beats the Shostakovich 1st, it is so full of fury and venom - I just love it. I have the recording with Haitink and the Concertgebouw and Lynn Harrell as soloist.
> Ive never heard of *Lynn Harrel*l, anyone familiar?


I have the following version of Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata, D 821, played by *Lynn Harrel*l on cello.


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## World Violist

Elgar, Dvorak, Shosty 1, and Aho.


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## classidaho

Boccherini, all three parts........what a cello was, is and will be forever be designed and constructed for. Flowing, haunting and deeply melodic, no nonsense music., Chuck

especially by du Pre


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## LatinClassics

Elgar, Delius, Finzi, Villa-Lobos (No. 2), Barber, Dvorak, Saint-Saens (No. 1), Shostakovich (No. 1), Britten, and Haydn (all of them).


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## danae

Andre said:


> Some of my favourite cello concertos:
> 
> Lutoslawski (surprised no-one has mentioned this - one of the best of the C20th)
> 
> Prokofiev - Symphony-Concerto


My thoughts exactly.


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## Aramis

Elgar's concerto (theme from first movement) sounds like modern movie soundtrack. Quite disappointed, even if I enjoy it.


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## thatperson

Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante, Shostakovich 1 & 2, Haydn C and D, Britten, Barber, Dvorak, Elgar, Bloch Schelomo, Piston Variations, Lutoslawski, Dutilleux, Rosza, Kernis: colored fields, Misaskovsky, Penderecki 1&2, Saint Saens 2, Brahms Double


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## hawk

I find this Geminiani cello sonata to be so beautiful and evocative! It really stirs my emotions...


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## Jules141

Having listened to a few more cello concertos recently I must say I LOVE Finzi's (if you have Spotify a great recording is here: 



 ) that opening alone will leave you beggin' for more! Just lovely.


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## Vaneyes

Dvorak - Fournier with Pa Szell, and Ma's Live! with Maa zel.
Elgar - du Pre/Barbirolli
Khachaturian - Tarasova/Dudarova
Kabalevsky 1 & 2 - Tarasova/Dudarova
Lalo - Chang/Pappano


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## flamencosketches

Bumping an old thread to discuss a genre that I think most of us have love for: the Cello Concerto.

I am newly appreciating the Cello, but I think it can be one of the most beautiful instruments in the right hands, and there have been some very beautiful concertante works written for it. Some of my favorites include that of Lutoslawski, Schnittke (I've only heard the first one, but he wrote two and the second is supposed to be just as good if not better, so I look forward to hearing that too), Haydn C major, Elgar (not a huge Elgar fan, but this is one of his most beautiful works), and I have newly begun appreciating the Beethoven Triple concerto (I have a Naxos recording with cellist Maria Kliegel, I am a fan of hers) as well as the Dvořák cello concerto, which I've heard some say is the best of all. I also am a big fan of Tchaikovsky's short Rococo Variations for cello and orchestra.

I still have yet to hear some famous ones: Shostakovich 1 & 2, Prokofiev sinfonia concertante, Britten cello symphony, Schumann, either of Saint-Saëns. What else am I missing? 

What are some of your favorite cello concerti? What are some recordings you like? Who are some of your favorite cello soloists?

edit: Just realized this thread is in the wrong forum. If a mod could move it to the Classical Music Discussion section, that would be great!


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## elgar's ghost

If you haven't yet made their acquaintance then these others from the 20th c. might interest you, FS.

Dutilleux - _Tout un monde lointain..._

Hindemith - _Kammermusik no.3_ for cello and ten instruments

Concertos by Schnittke (nos. 1 and 2), Penderecki (no.1) and Ligeti.

From the more romantic side of things, those by Finzi, Korngold and Myaskovsky.

There are more I could mention, but it's only fair to give others a chance to make some suggestions.


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## Rogerx

Love the cello ; Haydn-Offenbach - Dvorak -Shostakovitch- Lalo naming few.


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## Taplow

I am very partial to the cello concertos of C.P.E. Bach, especially the B flat H.436. The Bach Collegium recording on BIS with Hidemi Suzuki is particularly fine, and taken at a riveting pace. Over all they are performances that breathe new life into these well-crafted works.


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## jegreenwood

Taplow said:


> I am very partial to the cello concertos of C.P.E. Bach, especially the B flat H.436. The Bach Collegium recording on BIS with Hidemi Suzuki is particularly fine, and taken at a riveting pace. Over all they are performances that breathe new life into these well-crafted works.


Enjoyed that disc earlier this week. It came as part of a Suzuki tribute box.


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## Art Rock

A dozen favourites:

Camille Saint-Saëns - Cello Concerto No. 1 in A minor [1872]
Antonín Dvořák - Cello Concerto in B minor [1895]
Camille Saint-Saëns - Cello Concerto No. 2 in D minor [1902]
Edward Elgar - Cello Concerto in E minor [1919]
Arnold Bax - Cello concerto [1932]
Ernest John Moeran - Cello concerto [1945]
Nikolai Myaskovsky - Cello Concerto in C minor [1945]
Gerald Finzi - Cello concerto [1955]
Dmitri Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No. 1 in E-flat major [1959]
Dmitri Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No. 2 [1966]
Henri Dutilleux - Tout un monde lointain [1970]
Aulis Sallinen - Cello concerto [1977]


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## Janspe

Most of the standard repertoire has already been mentioned in the last few messages, but I'd like to add the following ones:

- Sofia Gubaidulina, titled _Canticle of the Sun_; not a traditional concerto by any means, but still a large-scale cello-centric ensemble work
- Unsuk Chin
- Kaija Saariaho, titled _Notes on Light_
- Elliott Carter


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## Bulldog

My current favorites:

Atterberg
Dutilleux
Dvorak
Haydn (C major)
Myaskovsky
Schnittke (no. 1)
Shostakovich (both)


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## flamencosketches

Taplow said:


> I am very partial to the cello concertos of C.P.E. Bach, especially the B flat H.436. The Bach Collegium recording on BIS with Hidemi Suzuki is particularly fine, and taken at a riveting pace. Over all they are performances that breathe new life into these well-crafted works.


Looks great, I love the BCJ. Is Hidemi any relation to Masaaki Suzuki or is it a coincidence?

I'd forgotten to mention the Dutilleux _Tout un monde lointain..._ but it's indeed a great work. New to me as of a month or two ago, but I found it very impressive. I should try and listen to it later on today.

I listened to the Dvorák concerto this morning and was really blown away. What a great piece of music!


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## Bulldog

flamencosketches said:


> Looks great, I love the BCJ. Is Hidemi any relation to Masaaki Suzuki or is it a coincidence?


They are brothers..........


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## flamencosketches

Bulldog said:


> They are brothers..........


Thanks. I'm a fan of Masaaki Suzuki's conducting but have never heard anything of his brother.


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## Bulldog

flamencosketches said:


> Thanks. I'm a fan of Masaaki Suzuki's conducting but have never heard anything of his brother.


I'm familiar with Hidemi's recording of Bach's Cello Suites and was not impressed. I found it too clinical and objective.


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## starthrower

Ginastera no.2
Honegger
Ligeti
Lutoslawski
Schnittke 1&2
Penderecki
Britten cello symphony

I've yet to listen to some of the more famous works of Dvorak, Elgar, etc which I need to get to. I may have some of these in the Rostropovich, and Starker box sets. I also need a recording of Prokofiev's cello sonata.


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## larold

*Offenbach "Militaire" *from either Edgar Moreau (full version) or Ofra Hornoy (truncated but considered complete at the time)

*Herbert No. 2* from Georges Miquelle

*Haydn* from Miklos Perenyi

*Bottesini "Passione Amoros" *for cello and double bass
*Vieru concerto*, both from Catalin Ilea


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## Orfeo

Kabalevsky: Cello Concerto II
Myaskovsky: Cello Concerto
Lalo: Cello Concerto in D minor
Elgar
Weinberg
Leighton (of 1956)
Schumann
Boris Tchaikovsky
Walton
Dvorak


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## wkasimer

larold said:


> *Offenbach "Militaire" *from either Edgar Moreau (full version)


There's also this excellent recording of the full version:


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## flamencosketches

What are some favorite recordings of the two Shostakovich cello concerti? I am attracted to the Torleif Thedéen, the Maria Kliegel, and the Heinrich Schiff with the composer's son as conductor.


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## Op.123

I don't have any particular favourites though there are a lot of beautiful ones, Myaskovsky's does stand out as one I have really enjoyed however


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## Enthusiast

Lot's of good suggestions in the last page. But I didn't see any Vivaldi or Boccherini. You probably need to be careful with Boccherini as the versions often played (especially on older recordings) seem not to reflect Boccherini's character.


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## Janspe

flamencosketches said:


> What are some favorite recordings of the two Shostakovich cello concerti? I am attracted to the Torleif Thedéen, the Maria Kliegel, and the Heinrich Schiff with the composer's son as conductor.


There are of course countless brilliant interpretations available - one of my favourites being the Truls Mørk/Vasily Petrenko on Ondine - but the first step with these concertos should _always_ be Rostropovich in his various recordings. Not to be missed!


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## flamencosketches

Janspe said:


> There are of course countless brilliant interpretations available - one of my favourites being the Truls Mørk/Vasily Petrenko on Ondine - but the first step with these concertos should _always_ be Rostropovich in his various recordings. Not to be missed!


Fair enough. I will have to seek out one of the Rostropovich recordings.


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## larold

_Offenbach "Militaire" from either Edgar Moreau (full version)
There's also this excellent recording of the full version:_









It's a good collection but the cellist's narrow tone works against the concerto for me. The orchestra lacks richness as well.


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## Brahmsian Colors

I favor only three concertos with cello: Brahms' Double, Beethoven's Triple and Dvorak's opus 104 in B minor.


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## mrdoc

The Elgar with du Pre will always be my favorite as a 2nd I would choose Dvorak with Rostropovich.


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## leonsm

Current favorites:

- Khachaturian
- Atterberg
- Walton
- Finzi
- Yoshimatsu
- Bax


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## mrdoc

I have not heard the - Khachaturian - but I do rate his Violin Con so will check out the Cello Con.


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## Enthusiast

I have recently spent some time with the Ligeti Cello Concerto and come to enjoy it a lot.


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## Lilijana

Enthusiast said:


> I have recently spent some time with the Ligeti Cello Concerto and come to enjoy it a lot.


Oh it's a goodie! I remember being blown away by it for the first time when I was 14. The growth from almost nothing in the very first movement is one of those very special moments in all of music history where I don't think anyone did that kind of thing better. Not only is a great effect, and perfectly paced, but there's so much pent-up emotion that feels like it just needs to gush out with every additional growth of intensity.


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## Enthusiast

Janspe said:


> There are of course countless brilliant interpretations available - one of my favourites being the Truls Mørk/Vasily Petrenko on Ondine - but the first step with these concertos should _always_ be Rostropovich in his various recordings. Not to be missed!


Yes, Rostropovich _is _that essential. But for an outstandingly visceral view of the first concerto (we're talking Shostakovich, here) you should try Natalia Gutman in her recording with Kondrashin. Her account of the 2nd concerto is far less good, however.









Also, of course, there are at least three Rostropovich recordings out there and they are quite different. Recording made with Ormandy is iconic for me because it starts significantly more slowly than others but he didn't always play it that way.


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## flamencosketches

I ended up getting the Rostropovich/Ormandy recording of the first Shostakovich. Great, great performance, and the work itself is awesome. The long standalone cadenza is rapturous.


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## Lilijana

Unsuk's Chin's cello concerto has some wild and fun moments. I don't know if it's necessarily my favourite, but it's really good.


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## Kollwitz

Vivaldi's cello concerto in A minor (RV 419) is, in modern parlance, an absolute banger. Saw Queyras play it at Wigmore Hall with the Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin a few years ago and it was really tremendous, the highlight of a brilliant concert.


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## Tero

I mostly play the Vivaldi ones. One for two cellos in g minor is popular. The 4 disc set of cello concertos on Naxos, though modern instruments, is very well done. One or two other baroque works, some are for viola da gamba. A Sony disc with Bylsma.


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## Fredrikalansson

I'm going to utter heresy here, but I'm not that fond of the du Pre recording of the Elgar. I know it's an astonishing recording, but her playing is a bit winsome for me. I think the Elgar is more profound, more dramatic than that. Barbirolli made another recording with Andre Navarra which I find more enjoyable. Navarra's playing has more bite. I have it ona Testament cd where it's coupled with a similarly full throated Dvorak.


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## Janspe

composer jess said:


> Unsuk's Chin's cello concerto has some wild and fun moments. I don't know if it's necessarily my favourite, but it's really good.


This piece is a great favourite of mine, as are the rest of Chin's concerti. Astounding composer!

Something I'd like people to know better is the concerto of the Finnish composer Joonas Kokkonen. It's not a favourite work of mine or anything like that - but I still think it's a piece that might please quite a lot of listeners. There's a recording on Ondine.


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## DaveM

Fredrikalansson said:


> I'm going to utter heresy here, but I'm not that fond of the du Pre recording of the Elgar. I know it's an astonishing recording, but her playing is a bit winsome for me. I think the Elgar is more profound, more dramatic than that. Barbirolli made another recording with Andre Navarra which I find more enjoyable. Navarra's playing has more bite. I have it ona Testament cd where it's coupled with a similarly full throated Dvorak.


All I ever heard from critics about du Pre's playing of the Elgar was along the lines of how profound & dramatic it was. That was my take on it also.


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## DaveM

Too bad Henry Wood didn't compose a Cello Concerto:


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## Lilijana

I always find it amazing how that some of Lachenmann's music still sounds very contemporary more than half a century later. Guess it shows that there was a lot of influential ideas that found their way into other people's music in the generations after him. This sort of counts as a cello concerto I guess, in that it was composed for cello and orchestra, if for no other reason:


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## DaveM

composer jess said:


> This sort of counts as a cello concerto I guess..


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No.


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## Lilijana

DaveM said:


> ----------
> 
> No.


Why not?

My further reasoning, now that i think about it, is that it's a piece written for solo cellist and small orchestra. When it is performed in a concert, it fulfils the exact same function as a cello concerto. When I saw it, there was a conductor conducting the munich chamber orchestra, lucas fels was facing the audience as a soloist, and they played through it like they would any other concerto. There were other pieces in the programme which were not concertos in any recognisable sense. But I found this piece to function in a concert programme the same way the Dvorak concerto would, rather than the same way Beethoven's fifth would (and that is undoubtedly not a concerto!)


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## mrdoc

DaveM said:


> All I ever heard from critics about du Pre's playing of the Elgar was along the lines of how profound & dramatic it was. That was my take on it also.


Couldn't agree more I will never tire of listening to her, as has been said before she made it her own concerto.


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## Enthusiast

composer jess said:


> Why not?
> 
> My further reasoning, now that i think about it, is that it's a piece written for solo cellist and small orchestra. When it is performed in a concert, it fulfils the exact same function as a cello concerto. When I saw it, there was a conductor conducting the munich chamber orchestra, lucas fels was facing the audience as a soloist, and they played through it like they would any other concerto. There were other pieces in the programme which were not concertos in any recognisable sense. But I found this piece to function in a concert programme the same way the Dvorak concerto would, rather than the same way Beethoven's fifth would (and that is undoubtedly not a concerto!)


I have a recording of it and there is certainly a concertante cello part throughout the piece.


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## DaveM

composer jess said:


> Why not?
> ... But I found this piece to function in a concert programme the same way the Dvorak concerto would, rather than the same way Beethoven's fifth would (and that is undoubtedly not a concerto!)


What part of that work has anything in common with Dvorak's Cello Concerto, other than there is a Cello?


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## Lilijana

DaveM said:


> What part of that work has anything in common with Dvorak's Cello Concerto, other than there is a Cello?


Well, there is a concertante cello part, as enthusiast said earlier, and there is also an orchestra (although it is on the smaller side, but still certainly an orchestra) and it's a piece that is presented as a concerto in concert programmes.


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## DaveM

composer jess said:


> Well, there is a concertante cello part, as enthusiast said earlier, and there is also an orchestra (although it is on the smaller side, but still certainly an orchestra) and it's a piece that is presented as a concerto in concert programmes.


This from a review on the archivmusic site:
_
'The relatively long time it took Lachenmann to compose his Notturno, it is only fifteen minutes long, already hints at the significance this works plays in the composer's output. Lachenmann's Notturno marks a decisive turning point in the composer's career by creating a new, exemplary compositional aesthetics, which will represent one of the most distinctive positions for decades to come. This development starts out from original sound production using all noisy by-products and integrating ever more fine nuances of this noise production. From this arises the music heard in Notturno'_

I'm not sure what 'exemplary compositional aesthetics' means, but 'noisy byproducts...fine nuances of this noise production', one might say, 'resonates'.


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## Lilijana

I don't deny it's aesthetically different from 19th century music, but that doesn't mean it can't also be described as a concerto.


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## DaveM

composer jess said:


> I don't deny it's aesthetically different from 19th century music, but that doesn't mean it can't also be described as a concerto.


For one thing, the composer never called it a concerto, likely because concertos don't tend to be 15 minutes long. Plus a concerto is traditionally meant to highlight the instrument interacting with the orchestra where the long line of the melody and harmony easily distinguish the two and what their roles are. In the Notturno work, it is often hard to distinguish the Cello from the other instruments what with all the plucking, tremolos and whatnot going on. The work is an exercise in noises and timbre, the latter two terms being used in reviews.


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## Bulldog

DaveM said:


> For one thing, the composer never called it a concerto, likely because concertos don't tend to be 15 minutes long. Plus a concerto is traditionally meant to highlight the instrument interacting with the orchestral where the long line of the melody and harmony easily distinguish the two and what there roles are..


In sizing up modern music, it's best to leave tradition outside the door.


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## Lilijana

DaveM said:


> For one thing, the composer never called it a concerto, likely because concertos don't tend to be 15 minutes long. Plus a concerto is traditionally meant to highlight the instrument interacting with the orchestral where the long line of the melody and harmony easily distinguish the two and what there roles are.. In the Notturno work, it is often hard to distinguish the Cello from the other instruments what with all the plucking, tremolos and whatnot going on. The work is an exercise in noises and timbre, the latter two terms being used in reviews.


Thanks for the response! You certainly have some really good points here. I think, however, by the time of Lachenmann and in the years after _Notturno_ has been composed, there's been enough variation in what a concerto _can_ be that definitions have satisfactorily broadened to include a piece like _Notturno._ I've seen it live, and to me it certainly appeared to be a concerto in the context of a live performance, but I can understand why if it doesn't have the word 'concerto' in the title there might be some hesitation in describing it as such.

But Ligeti's Cello Concerto (iirc composed almost exactly during the same years as Lachenmann's piece) is probably another piece that if it had a different title it might also be categorised as 'not a concerto' under your criteria.

Ligeti's cello concerto:
- is about 15 minutes long
- doesn't highlight the solo instrument interacting with/against the 'orchestra' as two easily distinguishable roles
(and i won't mention what it does with melody and harmony)

But thinking again about it, Ligeti's and Lachenmann's music comes from different concerns regarding pitch, sound, orchestration and how they approach music history and tradition. So it's probably more viable to say that Lachenmann wanted his _Notturno_ to not be thought of as a concerto but rather an exploration of sounds presented in a musical way using an ensemble setup that alludes to a concertante work for cello and orchestra.


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## Enthusiast

composer jess said:


> But thinking again about it, Ligeti's and Lachenmann's music comes from different concerns regarding pitch, sound, orchestration and how they approach music history and tradition. So it's probably more viable to say that Lachenmann wanted his _Notturno_ to not be thought of as a concerto but rather an exploration of sounds presented in a musical way using an ensemble setup *that alludes to a concertante work *for cello and orchestra.


That "alluding to" seems often to be a part of more modern composers' approach to the past ... or maybe just to the way I hear more modern music. Don't most composers compose in relation to (and with knowledge of and opinions about) the music that has come before them? It seems to me that when listening to their work it is nearly impossible to forget the tradition in which they write. They sometimes use this to compose their music in a sort of dialogue with some aspect of the past. So, from what you say, the Lachenmann is a concertante work (the copy I have lasts 19 minutes, BTW) of its time and within his aesthetic and stylistic development. The Ligeti work is called a concerto and as you say is very different in some ways to Lachenmann's piece. Perhaps it is "more of a concerto" because the cello gets a more central and leading role. But (for what it matters) I am still comfortable thinking of Notturno as a concertante piece that fits within this thread!


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## Lilijana

Enthusiast said:


> That "alluding to" seems often to be a part of more modern composers' approach to the past ... or maybe just to the way I hear more modern music. Don't most composers compose in relation to (and with knowledge of and opinions about) the music that has come before them? It seems to me that when listening to their work it is nearly impossible to forget the tradition in which they write. They sometimes use this to compose their music in a sort of dialogue with some aspect of the past. So, from what you say, the Lachenmann is a concertante work (the copy I have lasts 19 minutes, BTW) of its time and within his aesthetic and stylistic development. The Ligeti work is called a concerto and as you say is very different in some ways to Lachenmann's piece. Perhaps it is "more of a concerto" because the cello gets a more central and leading role. But (for what it matters) I am still comfortable thinking of Notturno as a concertante piece that fits within this thread!


Yes, I agree with you here. I don't really have much I can add to this except something your post made me think of when reading your first two sentences....

I think modern composers are much more pre-occupied with older repertoire than older composers ever were because our music being composed _today_ exists in a world which has so much repertoire from centuries of history readily accessible, regularly performed, discussed in academia and assimilated somewhat into popular culture as well. The modern composer lives in a world where historical works of art have been commodified for contemporary mass consumption.

I don't want to stray too far from the topic of the thread, but I feel as if there is (for composers who write for the concert hall) a rather sad feeling that we have to almost _justify_ the existence of new works when there's already so much old stuff everyone already plays. This wasn't really the case prior to the commodification and 'mechanical reproduction' of art (to use Walter Benjamin's term) where composers were _really_ writing music that was undoubtedly contemporary and much freer from comparison to any 'traditional' repertoire.


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## Enthusiast

^ Yes, I had something along the lines of your middle para in mind when I was writing. In your final para you take it further and into an interesting area ... perhaps not for this thread but worth discussing for all that. It is a subject I tend to avoid by feeling that composers compose because they have to (they hear things and have to work them through). But I'm no composer so what do I know.


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## Lilijana

Awesome. I'll start a new thread on it tomorrow.


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## Enthusiast

Fredrikalansson said:


> I'm going to utter heresy here, but I'm not that fond of the du Pre recording of the Elgar. I know it's an astonishing recording, but her playing is a bit winsome for me. I think the Elgar is more profound, more dramatic than that. Barbirolli made another recording with Andre Navarra which I find more enjoyable. Navarra's playing has more bite. I have it ona Testament cd where it's coupled with a similarly full throated Dvorak.


There is nothing wrong with heresy. It stimulates discussion. The du Pre recording of the Elgar with Barbirolli is greatly preferable to her later recording with Barenboim but she does bring out the more sentimental side of the music. You can hear this as a legitimate and take on what Elgar wrote or as focusing too much on the work's weakness! For me it is a great recording and it is not so easy to like others once it is in your head. But the old account by Beatrice Harrison (the first recording?) is a great antidote. It is just as compelling and much tougher.


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## Enthusiast

Some more recent concertos played by perhaps our greatest living cellist ... and a goody from the not too distant past played by definitely the greatest cellist of _his _time.


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## Fredrikalansson

Enthusiast said:


> There is nothing wrong with heresy. It stimulates discussion. The du Pre recording of the Elgar with Barbirolli is greatly preferable to her later recording with Barenboim but she does bring out the more sentimental side of the music. You can hear this as a legitimate and take on what Elgar wrote or as focusing too much on the work's weakness! For me it is a great recording and it is not so easy to like others once it is in your head. But the old account by Beatrice Harrison (the first recording?) is a great antidote. It is just as compelling and much tougher.


Sorry to have taken a while to respond. I've been re-listening to the seven recordings in my collection: Tortelier/Sargent, Navarra/Barbirolli, du Pre/Barbirolli, Tortelier/Boult, Schiff/Marriner, Isserlis/Hickox, Cohen/MacKerras and Queyras/Belohlavek. Not a lot, I know, but recordings have to offer something special to compete with the du Pre.

I'm going to put my cards on the table about du Pre. I heard her once live. She played the Lalo concerto. I'm in agreement with GraemeG that it's a pretty awful concerto. Within a couple of minutes, I wondered where the music was going, and by the end I knew it was going precisely nowhere. Du Pre's playing was full of feeling, gorgeous tone and she had a wonderful stage presence, but I still felt as if I had gone to a gold-star restaurant and had been served a five-course dinner of air. So maybe that experience has coloured my reactions to her recordings.

Her Elgar is a great, great recording, but I don't think it eclipses all others. There are parts of it that just aren't to my taste. As stated before, I prefer Navarra's lusher, more full-blooded, songful approach. Tortelier's two recordings are similar to Navarra, although his approach is a little more aristocratic. Isserlis and Cohen have a cleaner, more refined tone, not dissimilar from du Pre in some places, but lacking her passion and urgency. Schiff's performance is just dull. I was left wondering why I even have these recordings in my collection. The pleasant surprise was the Queyras. He isn't afraid to lean into his instrument and he produces the more full-throated sound that's my (entirely) personal preference.

So there you have it: totally subjective views.

On the subject of cello concerti: one of my favourites is Martinu's second cello concerto. I know I'm a nut for Martinu, but this strikes me as one of his finer achievements, and a great introduction to his compositional style. It's gorgeously melodic, and it's by turns joyful, perky and deeply contemplative. Christian Poltera's recording is quite good, coupled with the Shostakovich No. 2. Rafael Wallfisch made a good recording and I like the Supraphon with Neumann and Angelica May. The premiere recording on Supraphon with Sasa Vectomov is sadly unavailable, it's the best of the lot. It says something about the Martinu concerto that I own almost as many recordings of it as I do of the Elgar.

Cheers to all the cello concerti lovers out there. Who needs violins anyway?


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## flamencosketches

Any love for Schoenberg's Cello Concerto after G.M. Monn?






I enjoy it, but it is very odd music at best.


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## mrdoc

flamencosketches said:


> Any love for Schoenberg's Cello Concerto after G.M. Monn?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy it, but it is very odd music at best.


That's the first bit of Schoenberg that has not sent me straight for the off switch.


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## flamencosketches

mrdoc said:


> That's the first bit of Schoenberg that has not sent me straight for the off switch.


It's kind of fascinating. Pure Viennese late Baroque/early Classical harmony, with Modernist/late-Romantic orchestration, and damn near the hardest cello part in the whole repertoire. Why did he write this? I don't know, but it's an interesting bit of the story of Arnold Schoenberg.


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## hammeredklavier




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## DaveM

The Concerto containing the first 3 minutes of the Brahms Cello Concerto he wished he had completed:


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## Guest

Finzi and Honegger for me!

I wish Brahms would have written one.


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## Mandryka

Cassandra Miller for me.


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## DaveM

Mandryka said:


> Cassandra Miller for me.


There is something interesting about the work. One thing that occurs: the Cello part would not be hard to memorize.


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## Musicaterina

As a great Boccherini fan, I naturally like best the cello concertos of Boccherini. But I also like both of Joseph Haydn, the cello concertos of Vivaldi and the one of Dvorak in b minor.


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## aioriacont

Dvorak's is always a top choice for me.


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## Musicaterina

aioriacont said:


> Dvorak's is always a top choice for me.


For me too, as I said. Especially when my boyfriend (a cellist) is playing it with an orchestra; unfortunately he only rarely has the possibility to do this. More often he is accompaigned by a pianist, but this is really not a full replacement for an orchestra.


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## StDior

My clear favorite of the genre is Haydn's 2nd cello concerto in D major.


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## Andante Largo

My favorite Cello Concertos are:

Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Mario - Cello Concerto in F major, Op. 72
Delius, Frederick - Cello Concerto
Finzi, Gerald - Cello Concerto, Op. 40
Graener, Paul - Cello Concerto, Op. 78
Gretchaninov, Alexander - Cello Concerto, Op. 8
Howells, Herbert - Cello Concerto
Röntgen, Julius - Cello Concerto No. 1 in E minor
Röntgen, Julius - Cello Concerto No. 2 in G minor
Röntgen, Julius - Cello Concerto No. 3 in F sharp minor
Tartini, Giusepe - Concerto for Cello in A major
Wolf-Ferrari, Ermanno - Cello Concerto Op. 21 'Invocazione'


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## Allegro Con Brio

Top 10 in rough order:

1. Dvorak
2. Finzi
3. Haydn 1
4. Haydn 2
5. Shostakovich 1
6. Shostakovich 2
7. Moeran
8. Saint-Saens 1 
9. Bax
10. Martinu 1


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Dvorak is a personal favorite. No many mention Schumann in their Top 10, it definitely deserves some love too.


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## Allegro Con Brio

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> Dvorak is a personal favorite. No many mention Schumann in their Top 10, it definitely deserves some love too.


Totally forgot Schumann in mine. Yes, wonderful concerto! It would probably replace Bax on my list


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Totally forgot Schumann in mine. Yes, wonderful concerto! It would probably replace Bax on my list


I see another glaring omission from your Top 10 list, I presume Elgar is too philistine for you


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## Neo Romanza

A few off the top of my head:

(In no particular order)

Shostakovich 1
Weinberg
Dvořák
Khachaturian
Martinů (both 1 & 2)
Barber
Casella
Tabakova
Kabalevsky 2
Korngold
Schnittke 1
Shchedrin
Finzi
Honegger
Ben-Haim
Bloch
Prokofiev (_Symphony-Concerto_)
Myaskovsky


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## Merl

Lalo
Dvorak
Saint-Saens
Khachaturian
Bloch.
Schumann.. 

But I like others too


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## Allegro Con Brio

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> I see another glaring omission from your Top 10 list, I presume Elgar is too philistine for you


I love Elgar - both his symphonies are among my all-time favorites in the genre, and I also count myself a fan of the Enigma Variations and chamber music - but I just do not connect with his cello concerto. I find it too sentimental and uniform in mood.


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## SONDEK

GraemeG said:


> Elgar. Then daylight.
> Then Dvorak and Shostakovich 1.
> Then all the rest.
> 
> If I had it in my power I would destroy Lalo's D minor concerto.
> I've played in the orchestra for performances.
> It's the most incompetent piece of music ever written, with the possible exception of Franck's symphony in the same key...
> Graeme


I love your honesty and I just have to laugh... I relate.

I'm totally with you on the LALO Cello Concerto. What an absolute din! Sitting through that - hoping it would come right - was murder.

I can't agree on the FRANCK Symphony in D, however. Granted it's a bit quirky, but I feel that it does reward a bit of time and effort.

With art, everything is subjective.


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## composingmusic

Art Rock said:


> A dozen favourites:
> 
> Camille Saint-Saëns - Cello Concerto No. 1 in A minor [1872]
> Antonín Dvořák - Cello Concerto in B minor [1895]
> Camille Saint-Saëns - Cello Concerto No. 2 in D minor [1902]
> Edward Elgar - Cello Concerto in E minor [1919]
> Arnold Bax - Cello concerto [1932]
> Ernest John Moeran - Cello concerto [1945]
> Nikolai Myaskovsky - Cello Concerto in C minor [1945]
> Gerald Finzi - Cello concerto [1955]
> Dmitri Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No. 1 in E-flat major [1959]
> Dmitri Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No. 2 [1966]
> Henri Dutilleux - Tout un monde lointain [1970]
> Aulis Sallinen - Cello concerto [1977]





Janspe said:


> Most of the standard repertoire has already been mentioned in the last few messages, but I'd like to add the following ones:
> 
> - Sofia Gubaidulina, titled Canticle of the Sun; not a traditional concerto by any means, but still a large-scale cello-centric ensemble work
> - Unsuk Chin
> - Kaija Saariaho, titled Notes on Light
> - Elliott Carter


Great lists here! I'll add the Lutoslawski to this list too (and I think it's mentioned later in this thread). By the way, the Lutoslawski and Dutilleux were completed in the same year, and both were commissioned by Rostropovich, which I find really interesting. It's mind-boggling to consider how many pieces Rostropovich commissioned - the Gubaidulina and Shostakovich concertos were Rostropovich commissions too.


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## Art Rock

My list which you quoted was made over 2 years ago. I would now add (in addition to the already mentioned Chin and Saariaho)

Atterberg - Cello concerto (1922)
Shchedrin - Cello concerto "Sotto Voce" (1994)
Weinberg - Cello concerto in C minor (1948)


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## hammeredklavier

I've always thought that this work (



) was by Joseph Haydn, considering the harmonic style (



)

A New Haydn Concerto But Which Haydn?
Paul Hertelendy Dec 30, 2006
http://www.musicincincinnati.com/site/news_2006/A_New_Haydn_Concerto_But_Which_Haydn.html

Btw, always remember, always remember:


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## hammeredklavier




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## Animal the Drummer

Dvorak.






The rest.


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## 59540

Dvorak, Haydn #2, Shostakovich #2


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## Prodromides

Here is a baker's dozen of faves:

Isang Yun's 1975/'76 Concerto for Cello and Orchestra
Charles Wuorinen's "Five", a concerto for amplified cello and orchestra (1987)
"Fantasia" para chelo y orquestra (1945) by Villa-Lobos
Rautavaara's 1968 Cello Concerto
Maurice Ohana's "In Dark and Blue" (1990)
Arne Nordheim's "Tenebrae" (1982)
Aarre Merikanto's "Konzertstuck" (1926)
Morton Feldman's 1972 Cello and Orchestra
Luigi Dallapiccola's "Dialoghi" (1960)
André Caplet's 1923 "Epiphanie"
Édith Canat de Chizy's "Moïra" (1998)
+
twice around the Bloch ... "Schelomo" (1916) & 1938's "Voice in the Wilderness".


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## Rogerx

On this moment:

Joseph Joachim Raff 
Schumann.
Shostakovich ( both)
Volkmann
Haydn .


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## Terrapin

Dvorak
(big gap)
Schumann
Shostakovich 1
Haydn (both)
Saint-Saens 1


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## progmatist

Not a concerto per se, but Ernest Bloch's Voice in the Wilderness.


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## Rogerx

^^^^^^^
I have the same feeling whit: Strauss: Don Quixote, Op. 35, beats many concerto's , for me that is .


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## ansfelden

Dvorak, Saint Saens 1, Dutilleux "tout und monde lointain", Boccherini Nr.6


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## manyene

Dvorak, Elgar, Schumann, Shostakovich 1, Martinu 1, Haydn (both), Rautavaara 1


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## violadude

Lilijana said:


> I always find it amazing how that some of Lachenmann's music still sounds very contemporary more than half a century later. Guess it shows that there was a lot of influential ideas that found their way into other people's music in the generations after him. This sort of counts as a cello concerto I guess, in that it was composed for cello and orchestra, if for no other reason:


What piece was this? The link is no longer available.


----------

