# Andras Schiff Plays the Complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

I am quite excited that I should receive by tomorrow the masterful Andras Schiff playing these monumental piano pieces. There is not a note in them that he has not pondered carefully. His lectures on the sonatas are available at this link from The Guardian and are wonderfully edifying. If you are short on time, just listen, for example, to his comments about the Sonata in C Sharp Minor op. 27, no. 2, (not) the "Moonlight."

I would be interested to hear from anyone else owning this set. What are your favorites? What are your least favorites?

I ordered mine from Amazon, this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-32-Sonatas-11-CD/dp/B01M1O8HA2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1509367257&sr=1-1&keywords=andras+schiff

Can't wait! Between it and, I think, finally subscribing to the Met on Demand, I should have Enough Music To Last the Rest of My Life!

Or at least for a few months :lol:

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I have the set, but got them one at a time!  The Pathetique is nice because of the way the repeat is handled. The rest are of very high quality if a bit on the cerebral and deliberate side. It's my favorite interpretation of Beethoven keyboard next to Brendal I guess. Those lectures are indeed the coolest thing on the internet.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

^Weston that's my only fear is that the sonatas can be overthought ... but a genius such as Schiff cannot, I imagine, fail to realize if he is too consistently discarding spontaneity. And the recordings are all live performances, too, from 2004-2007. Here's a review in The Guardian from January:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/05/beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-etc-review-andras-schiff

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Weston said:


> I have the set, but got them one at a time!  The Pathetique is nice because of the way the repeat is handled. The rest are of very high quality if a bit on the cerebral and deliberate side. It's my favorite interpretation of Beethoven keyboard next to Brendal I guess. Those lectures are indeed the coolest thing on the internet.


I mentioned in another thread that I am engaged in a Beethoven sonata project of my own devising. Each day I listen to Schiff lecturing on a single movement of a sonata (sequentially) followed by five different recordings of that movement - Kempff (mono), Brendel (first Philips cycle), Arrau, Annie Fischer and Goode. I do it while following the score. I also read Charles Rosen's analysis in his book on the sonatas (although I don't try to track all the specific harmonic sequences, rhythmic subtleties etc. he describes). I listened to the first movement of Op. 31, No. 3 this morning. My appreciation for Beethoven's imagination and craft has increase dramatically.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It's good to see the Schiff sonata cycle available in a single package - not exactly a bargain but certainly much cheaper than buying the individual CDs. It's probably my top-rated set of these sonatas overall.

Here's another page with the Schiff lectures on the sonatas. On the Wigmore Hall site, you have all the sonatas on a single page and can play each lecture directly with a single click.

https://wigmore-hall.org.uk/podcasts/andras-schiff-beethoven-lecture-recitals


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

KenOC said:


> It's good to see the Schiff sonata cycle available in a single package - not exactly a bargain but certainly much cheaper than buying the individual CDs. It's probably my top-rated set of these sonatas overall.
> 
> Here's another page with the Schiff lectures on the sonatas. On the Wigmore Hall site, you have all the sonatas on a single page and can play each lecture directly with a single click.
> 
> https://wigmore-hall.org.uk/podcasts/andras-schiff-beethoven-lecture-recitals


Thanks for the other link, KenOC. Good to hear some of these old friends again.

Kind regards,

George


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm not a fan of Schiff's Beethoven sonatas. The #32 Arietta is perhaps Beethoven's crowning glory of piano adagios with the opening theme (IMO) demanding a solemn reverence. Yet Schiff dispatches the opening in an almost dismissive perfunctory manner:






On the other hand, here is Barenboim giving it the attention it demands:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I love my Brendel set and can't imagine anyone topping him. I listened to his Pathetique and it blew me away. It has such clarity and vision!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Can't agree about the Schiff, who seems to give the Arietta in the Op. 111 a great deal of attention indeed. Another one to check out is Ivo Pogorelich in an early performance, who is probably incomparable for playing the "boogie-woogie" variation as it should be heard.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Can't agree about the Schiff, who seems to give the Arietta in the Op. 111 a great deal of attention indeed. Another one to check out is Ivo Pogorelich in an early performance, who is probably incomparable for playing the "boogie-woogie" variation as it should be heard.


Yes, one of my favorites. And he gives the proper attention to the opening. IMO, also much better than Schiff.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Can't agree about the Schiff, who seems to give the Arietta in the Op. 111 a great deal of attention indeed. Another one to check out is Ivo Pogorelich in an early performance, who is probably incomparable for playing the "boogie-woogie" variation as it should be heard.


I was once browsing around in a CD shop. There were two teenaged girls there, clearly in the wrong section and quite mystified by the CDs. But one eventually did point to a CD and said: "Wow, check out that handsome guy!"

When they eventually found their way to the pop music section of the shop, I went to see what she was pointing at. It was a CD with that same photo of Pogorelich on the cover.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

DaveM said:


> The #32 Arietta . . . opening theme (IMO) demanding a solemn reverence.


Is solemn reverence compatible with semplice?


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

^ Believe me, Pogorelich looks nothing like that today.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Barelytenor said:


> Believe me, Pogorelich looks nothing like that today.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DaveM said:


> I'm not a fan of Schiff's Beethoven sonatas. The #32 Arietta is perhaps Beethoven's crowning glory of piano adagios with the opening theme (IMO) demanding a solemn reverence. Yet Schiff dispatches the opening in an almost dismissive perfunctory manner:
> 
> On the other hand, here is Barenboim giving it the attention it demands:


I hear what you're getting at, but isn't there another way of looking at it? I could see a case being made in favor of Schiff keeping the opening theme relatively simple and straightforward, as opposed to Barenboim dwelling on every note, making a full meal out of this one theme, almost as if there weren't a whole set of variations to follow.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Is solemn reverence compatible with semplice?


Good question given the meaning of the word. It's hard to know how Beethoven would have played it. Having listened to countless recordings of the work, I do know that the majority of pianists play the opening as if it has solemn importance in anticipation of the variations to follow.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

amfortas said:


> I hear what you're getting at, but isn't there another way of looking at it? I could see a case being made in favor of Schiff keeping the opening theme relatively simple and straightforward, as opposed to Barenboim dwelling on every note, making a full meal out of this one theme, almost as if there weren't a whole set of variations to follow.


Yes, that's a legitimate perspective, but when I hear Schiff's opening, I have no interest in listening further. That theme, in its simplicity, is too beautiful to throw away.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I prefer Schiff's approach out of the two. I like how Barenboim makes the opening of the movement sound but it doesn't transition as well into the next section or the rest of the movement in my opinion. I don't agree that Schiff is dismissive or 'throwing away' the opening, rather he is pacing it differently. He is still treating the opening with a lot of dignity and respect to my ears.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

The ultimate for me in the Arietta is Claudio Arrau. Not from any of his LP/CDcycles but a DVD on Classic Archives.

Schiff is not a favourite interpreter of LvB for me either. I find the music overthought to the point of being sterile.

I agree about Barenboim in Op 111 but I'm referring to his EMI recording which is almost on the same plane as Arrau. The DG doesn't quite get there.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Holden4th said:


> The ultimate for me in the Arietta is Claudio Arrau. Not from any of his LP/CDcycles but a DVD on Classic Archives.
> 
> Schiff is not a favourite interpreter of LvB for me either. I find the music overthought to the point of being sterile.
> 
> I agree about Barenboim in Op 111 but I'm referring to his EMI recording which is almost on the same plane as Arrau. The DG doesn't quite get there.


Yes, I have both recordings and, if memory serves, I agree. Though I prefer his live performance (it's on YouTube) even more. I would agree with others that maybe Barenboim is a little too meditative in the opening of the recording I posted above, but I prefer that extreme to Schiff's.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

DaveM said:


> Yes, I have both recordings and, if memory serves, I agree. Though I prefer his live performance (it's on YouTube) even more. I would agree with others that maybe Barenboim is a little too meditative in the opening of the recording I posted above, but I prefer that extreme to Schiff's.


Could you give me a link to the Arrau Youtube recording? If it's a video then it's the Classic Archives recording. If not then it's another performance. I'd be interested to find out. There is a live CD on Spotify but it's nowhere as good the one I've heard on the DVD.

Yes, DB is very contemplative in the opening of the Arietta and Arrau does this a little better. My main reason for ranking Arrau above Barenboim is the first movement.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

I usually shy away from live chamber recordings due to crowd noise, extraneous sounds and such. For those of you that have these, how bad are the "live" recording noises?

TIA,
-09


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Tomorrow night Schiff is conducting the Chicago SO and playing the Beethoven 1st PC I think the last time I saw him in Concert was over 20 years ago


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Holden4th said:


> Could you give me a link to the Arrau Youtube recording? If it's a video then it's the Classic Archives recording. If not then it's another performance. I'd be interested to find out. There is a live CD on Spotify but it's nowhere as good the one I've heard on the DVD.


Sorry if my answer was confusing. I was referring to Barenboim's live #32 on YouTube. On listening to it again just now, this is my favorite interpretation of the Arietta. The opening is perfection! It starts at 9:55. Also, IMO, Barenboim captures what I call the 'resolution' (actually recapitulation) better than any other I've heard (at 25:45). Finally, the sequence at 26:20, often rushed over by others, is carefully fleshed out. It's just a wonderful Arietta.






Edit: Apologize for going somewhat off topic above. To bring it somewhat back, I've had a bit of a gripe how Schiff has, in his lectures, criticized pianists who play these works slower and in the Arietta, for me, he destroys the magical moment of the introduction because he plays it too fast.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

This is a very interesting performance. After all these years Barenboim takes the Arietta a slower pace than most other pianists and it works. His first Op 111 was recorded in 1967 and when I got the LP the Arietta just blew me away. It still does, especially the part after the variations. What nearly every pianist (even the great Richter known for slowing the tempo to get the best effect) is paly this section too fast. The chance to vary dynamic range is effectively lost and listening to all the Barenboim recordings and Arrau this takes so much away from the work.

Watching the DVD posted I was captivated by DBs ability to create an effect that is almost ethereal. However, one or two annoying idiosyncrasies that are evident in Barenboim's third cycle take some of this effect away at the beginning. I've gone back to the EMI recording and am listening now. It's just spellbinding. Barenboim was just 25 when he recorded it and maybe the simplicity of a youthful approach has worked. If you haven't heard the EMI (now Warner) then can I suggest that you do. It's available on Spotify, Apple Music and Tidal


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Must confess Schiff doesn't do much for me as a Beethovenian. Nothing particularly wrong with it but not very exciting either


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

KenOC said:


> It's good to see the Schiff sonata cycle available in a single package - not exactly a bargain but certainly much cheaper than buying the individual CDs. It's probably my top-rated set of these sonatas overall.
> 
> Here's another page with the Schiff lectures on the sonatas. On the Wigmore Hall site, you have all the sonatas on a single page and can play each lecture directly with a single click.
> 
> https://wigmore-hall.org.uk/podcasts/andras-schiff-beethoven-lecture-recitals


I may have to try the Guardian links. I find the Wigmore website can be very, very slow. About half the time I wait several minutes before the podcast begins.


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