# Mozart's "Complete" Symphonies (and a cassette ID?)



## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

I recently purchased _Mozart: Complete Symphonies_ (English Chamber Orchestra, Jeffrey Tate, Warner box set of 12 discs in sleeves) and am generally happy with it but had some questions I couldn't figure out and one thing I'm very unhappy about is the pathetic booklet which contains almost no information which might have answered my questions about the logic of selection and order.

A relatively trivial issue is that the early CDs are more or less chronologically ordered but the late ones seem completely random. For instance, 40 & 41 are on 12 but Symphony No. 39 is on disc 9. I could understand if some juggling was needed to make them fit or if there was a historical or thematic reason but this all seems completely arbitrary. Am I missing something? (This link to discogs.com goes to a different edition but with the same content order: Mozart*, English Chamber Orchestra, Jeffrey Tate ‎- 51 Symphonies)

More significantly, compared to List of symphonies by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart on Wikipedia, this doesn't include "54" or "56" or any of 16a, 135, 204, 250, 320.

Now, 54 and 56 are listed as doubtful, but so is 55 so that doesn't explain the exclusion (or doesn't explain the excessive inclusion if you look at the other way). K. 204, 250, and 320 were cut down from serenades but several others which were included were derived from other works. Basically, while I don't mind things being excluded for good reason, I can't figure the logic of these exclusions or inclusions. (And why has no one ever recorded 56? Not even on a 200-disc "Complete Everything" edition?)

So I'd love to hear any information on that (or just discussion about this set or his symphonies, or anywhere the thread might go).

One other strange question: I have a vague recollection of a cassette with Mozart's Symphony No. 29 on one side and Symphony No. 40 on the other. I think it had a purple cover and may have (erroneously?) listed Donizetti's Overture to Lucia di Lammermoor also being included. I've searched the web for it because I'm curious who the conductor/orchestra was but I didn't have any luck turning it up. Anyone by any chance know about this?


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

That's odd, something like this has never happened to me...


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

Hi, thanks for the reply, but I'm confused - what's never happened to you?


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

Common Listener said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply, but I'm confused - what's never happened to you?


About the booklet...usually they are more than enough for me...


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> About the booklet...usually they are more than enough for me...


Ah, I see. Well, this one has less than three pages (repeated in German and French) of a sort of biography structured around occasional comments about some of the symphonies and a last page which contains a small paragraph on when and where the discs were recorded and that's it. No real biography, no in-depth analysis of the symphonies, and no discussion about the conductor, orchestra, why the pieces were chosen, why they were ordered this way, how they were recorded, or anything. This is like Laserlight documentation and sometimes they do better. I get that this is a "budget box" reprinting older discs but how hard/expensive would it have been to at least reprint the text of the original booklets with a little note about this particular package? I know lots of people have dozens of sets of everything  but, for me, getting the _COMPLETE SYMPHONIES_ of _MOZART_ is a big deal and I'd like a booklet that felt like at least some kind of deal as well.

Still, the most important thing is the music and I am happy with that.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Common Listener said:


> I recently purchased _Mozart: Complete Symphonies_ (English Chamber Orchestra, Jeffrey Tate, Warner box set of 12 discs in sleeves) and am generally happy with it but had some questions I couldn't figure out and one thing I'm very unhappy about is the pathetic booklet which contains almost no information which might have answered my questions about the logic of selection and order.
> 
> A relatively trivial issue is that the early CDs are more or less chronologically ordered but the late ones seem completely random. For instance, 40 & 41 are on 12 but Symphony No. 39 is on disc 9. I could understand if some juggling was needed to make them fit or if there was a historical or thematic reason but this all seems completely arbitrary. Am I missing something? (This link to discogs.com goes to a different edition but with the same content order: Mozart*, English Chamber Orchestra, Jeffrey Tate ‎- 51 Symphonies)
> 
> ...


How about this one:










Found this on ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mozart-S...806738?hash=item1c3ac0ee52:g:6dcAAMXQVERSwdOK


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Common Listener said:


> ...I get that this is a "budget box" reprinting older discs but how hard/expensive would it have been to at least reprint the text of the original booklets with a little note about this particular package? I know lots of people have dozens of sets of everything  but, for me, getting the _COMPLETE SYMPHONIES_ of _MOZART_ is a big deal and I'd like a booklet that felt like at least some kind of deal as well.


I read once about the economics of liner notes and, especially, CD booklets. They often aren't cheap. Reprinting, assembling, and so forth is more costly than one might think, plus there are often per-unit payments to be made to the authors and copyright holders, who may be somebody other than the label involved. All in all, a decent booklet can add a lot to the cost of a budget reissue, especially given how absurdly cheap some of these reissues are.


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> How about this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! Unfortunately, I can't tell if that's the same performance or not. The names don't ring any bells (though I'm not sure any would) and it may be a reprint of the one I had or not. It's definitely different, though. If I'm remembering right, mine was one of those old solid white cassettes with a paper label pasted on the sides and a not-very-artsy purple cover with, I dunno, maybe a musical note or an outline of a violin or something like that. If I could find a picture of that cassette, I'd know it was it. Still, unless I ever do, I'll tell myself that was it. 

-- I found Schiff/Northern Sinfonia/29 & 40 performances on youtube - I wouldn't think I could recognize the recording from memory but it does seem like it _could_ be it. And it's pretty good, either way.


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

KenOC said:


> I read once about the economics of liner notes and, especially, CD booklets. They often aren't cheap. Reprinting, assembling, and so forth is more costly than one might think, plus there are often per-unit payments to be made to the authors and copyright holders, who may be somebody other than the label involved. All in all, a decent booklet can add a lot to the cost of a budget reissue, especially given how absurdly cheap some of these reissues are.


Yeah, I guess so. Still, rather than three fairly generic pages which are basically covered by any print or digital encyclopedia, three pages on the specifics of the set itself (which probably can't be found anywhere else) would often be more useful. And, even if it might lower the profit margin on the specific item, these are, after all, the corporations making billions every quarter. They could probably find some change in the couch cushions to splurge on some notes and still not go out of business.  But they probably don't even want to sell these things - there's no profit margin like the profit margin of renting digits in the cloud to people who don't actually own anything.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

Common Listener said:


> Ah, I see. Well, this one has less than three pages (repeated in German and French) of a sort of biography structured around occasional comments about some of the symphonies and a last page which contains a small paragraph on when and where the discs were recorded and that's it. No real biography, no in-depth analysis of the symphonies, and no discussion about the conductor, orchestra, why the pieces were chosen, why they were ordered this way, how they were recorded, or anything. This is like Laserlight documentation and sometimes they do better. I get that this is a "budget box" reprinting older discs but how hard/expensive would it have been to at least reprint the text of the original booklets with a little note about this particular package? I know lots of people have dozens of sets of everything  but, for me, getting the _COMPLETE SYMPHONIES_ of _MOZART_ is a big deal and I'd like a booklet that felt like at least some kind of deal as well.
> 
> Still, the most important thing is the music and I am happy with that.


I have a similar problem-I have all of Mendelssohn's "songs without works" and the CDs play perfectly, but I lost the booklet...thankfully I know what I need to know (and if not then Google exists), so there's no point in buying a new one; you should do the same.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

^Doing your own research is better than the alternative, I guess. But I understand the OP's frustration. Recording and releasing the complete symphonies of Mozart is no small task, there's dozens of them, and the man is near unanimously one of the greatest composers of all time. Surely there is something that could have been said about the creative process, the how, the why, etc. that could have been printed in a small booklet? How much money are they saving by not printing one? 

These new Warner box sets seem preeetty low budget. I just got the Warner issued complete Mendelssohn symphonies with Kurt Mazur/Gewandhaus bundled with his complete string symphonies brand new for a low price, yet it still came with a halfway decent booklet. You'd think they hold themselves to some standard with all of the releases.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> ^Doing your own research is better than the alternative, I guess. But I understand the OP's frustration. Recording and releasing the complete symphonies of Mozart is no small task, there's dozens of them, and the man is near unanimously one of the greatest composers of all time. Surely there is something that could have been said about the creative process, the how, the why, etc. that could have been printed in a small booklet? How much money are they saving by not printing one?
> 
> These new Warner box sets seem preeetty low budget. I just got the Warner issued complete Mendelssohn symphonies with Kurt Mazur/Gewandhaus bundled with his complete string symphonies brand new for a low price, yet it still came with a halfway decent booklet. You'd think they hold themselves to some standard with all of the releases.


I understand her too, but if the CDs play as usual, it's better than just throwing them to the bin, right?


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