# Wish me luck! I'm starting from scratch!!!



## Sonata

As you all probably know I am very passionate about music. This passion was developed relatively later in life; probably about eight years ago. I am now 30. I know NOTHING about music theory and practice. I have decided that's going to change! I ultimately would like to take piano lessons.

However, I want to make the most out of them once I get there. So I am starting from square one. My husband and I sat down for half an hour tonight, with him helping me learn how to read the notes on a staff, and playing the notes on a keyboard app so I can hear the sound of the different notes. Should be an interesting journey, here's to hoping I keep up the inclination and practice to actually achieve my goal! Wish me luck


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Good luck, Sonata! I hope all goes well. 

But pray tell me, why ultimately the piano? Why not the orchestral contrabass sarrusophone? We need more of them in the world!


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## RonP

Good luck! You have a head start on me. I always had guitars and basses around, but never got really serious about learning theory until I was in my mid-40's. I'm 52 now and delving into double bass.


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## Sonata

CoAG: The reason I am going for piano because it is my favorite instrument. I've always loved the sound. I'll be sure to make the orchestral contrabass sarrusaphone my next instrument 

Was that tongue in cheek, or did autocorrect ruin the word saxophone by the way?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Sonata said:


> CoAG: The reason I am going for piano because it is my favorite instrument. I've always loved the sound. I'll be sure to make the orchestral contrabass sarrusophone my next instrument
> 
> Was that tongue in cheek, or did autocorrect ruin the word saxophone by the way?


Silly me I spelled it wrong.


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## Sonata

Saxophone is a pretty cool instrument actually.

This is nice: my husband was talking to a friend about my wanting to learn music. Apparently this guy is quite musically inclined, primarily with guitar. He has a keyboard that he's not been using lately and loaned it to us. It will be fun to play around on...if my toddler actually let's me get near it! I see music lessons in his future in a few years.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Sonata said:


> Saxophone is a pretty cool instrument actually.
> 
> This is nice: my husband was talking to a friend about my wanting to learn music. Apparently this guy is quite musically inclined, primarily with guitar. He has a keyboard that he's not been using lately and loaned it to us. It will be fun to play around on...if my toddler actually let's me get near it! I see music lessons in his future in a few years.


That's great news! But I meant sarrusophone.


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## Sonata

I don't believe I've ever heard such an instrument.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Sonata said:


> I don't believe I've ever heard such an instrument.


It's like a saxophone but with a double reed.


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## Sonata

very cool, I am reading up on it as we speak. I'll have to check out some youtube samples!


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## Sonata

Just thought I'd post some updates periodically. So far, I've been working on things quite a bit last night and today. By quite a bit I mean for a side project, not obviously, compared to any of you professional/student/or even serious amateur musicians on this board. But more serious learning in music than I'VE ever done before 

Last night I studied up on the musical staff, the note placement and the bass and treble cleff (yes I really am THAT much of a beginner!) I think I may draw them up a few times to help me memorize them, I am far from having it memorized. And that's even one note at a time....it will be along time before I can truly read the music and convert in my mind what needs to be played.

I then noodled around with chords on the keyboard. Not obviously in musical notation, but with the keyboard he loaned us a chord fingering chart. So I practiced the basic major chords A through G. No sharps. I did a couple of chord progressions. 

So those two items are my big focus right now. I know that I shouldn't do TOO much on the keyboard if I want to continue onto piano lessons (bad habit development and all). But I've been having alot of fun, and it's nice at least being able to understand a couple of basic things.

A nice note: I'm not even thinking to far ahead ie "Oh I'm so anxious to learn Chopin this or Rachmaninoff that" While that would be awesome, I'm just really absorbed in each individual step I'm working on. I don't know how far I will get, I don't even really worry about that right now. Just neat to start the journey.


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## soundlover

Sonata congratulations on your decision to learn the piano!I am 36 years old and I decided to learn the flute last year.One step at a time is the best thing to do as you have already written in your last post.If you *really* do that you will be amazed how soon you will play sopen..
In the beginning I was trying hard to learn quickly because of my desire to play my favourite piece of music.the result was that I had no progress.As soon as I became patient everything became more clear and the small,realistic goals brought the progress that I've been searching.
So good luck and relish every step of yoyr music journey!


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## Sonata

Soundlover and Ron: Good luck on your own endeavors! It's good to know there are others that are starting later in life, it's encouraging! Feel free to let me know how you both progess.


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## mamascarlatti

Sonata said:


> Last night I studied up on the musical staff, the note placement and the bass and treble cleff (yes I really am THAT much of a beginner!) I think I may draw them up a few times to help me memorize them, I am far from having it memorized. And that's even one note at a time....it will be along time before I can truly read the music and convert in my mind what needs to be played.


Try the note identification exercise here. You can customise it to suit as you make progress.


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## sospiro

Good luck with your musical journey Sonata!


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## Jaws

soundlover said:


> Sonata congratulations on your decision to learn the piano!I am 36 years old and I decided to learn the flute last year.One step at a time is the best thing to do as you have already written in your last post.If you *really* do that you will be amazed how soon you will play sopen..
> In the beginning I was trying hard to learn quickly because of my desire to play my favourite piece of music.the result was that I had no progress.As soon as I became patient everything became more clear and the small,realistic goals brought the progress that I've been searching.
> So good luck and relish every step of yoyr music journey!


This is the secret of learning a musical instrument, don't rush, take your time, stay relaxed. It isn't a competition so don't compare your progress to anyone else, everyone learns at different speeds.


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## Jaws

Sonata said:


> As you all probably know I am very passionate about music. This passion was developed relatively later in life; probably about eight years ago. I am now 30. I know NOTHING about music theory and practice. I have decided that's going to change! I ultimately would like to take piano lessons.
> 
> However, I want to make the most out of them once I get there. So I am starting from square one. My husband and I sat down for half an hour tonight, with him helping me learn how to read the notes on a staff, and playing the notes on a keyboard app so I can hear the sound of the different notes. Should be an interesting journey, here's to hoping I keep up the inclination and practice to actually achieve my goal! Wish me luck


Take your time, go slowly so that you understand every step. Learn to read the notes not the fingerings. Learning everything properly at first means that you won't have to go backwards later.


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## Sonata

Doing a fun little exercise to try to help improve my music reading and working on getting my ear to recognize the different notes. I have a page of sheet music on my iPad from Tori Amos, a song called "Silent All These Years" I know this song well. So I'm reading a set of notes a few times in a row then playing the music. This way they are no longer abstract figures on a page, but have meaning connected to the song. The opening of the song appears centered around G.

At the keyboard I also have a very basic goal... one towards improving my ear. I'm going to work on recognizing the different notes one octave at a time.


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## Lisztian

Good luck!


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## Head_case

How far have you got Sonata?

Have you learnt how to play Scriabin's Black Mass yet lol.






(J/k)


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## Sonata

LOL not quite. I am still in the very beginning stages right now. I am still using the keyboard and enjoying it. But I want to get a really good foundation, so most of my time I am focused on the music reading. Still pretty basic stuff memorizing where the notes are on the staff, and comitting to memory where those same notes are on the keyboard. It might sound crazy slow...but I tried to jump ahead with the guitar and flute and that got me nowhere. I intend to take my time to really learn and understand music so that when I do finally get my piano and take lessons, I'll have some good basic knowledge and the confidence to stick to it.


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## Lenfer

Good luck *Sonata*!


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## Sonata

Working on Hark the Herald Angels from a Christmas hymn book my husband's buddy had with the keyboard. Just a few measures in on the treble clef. I'll worry about the bass later. I look forward to when I can see a note on the staff and know what note to press without thinking about it.


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## Jaws

Sonata said:


> Working on Hark the Herald Angels from a Christmas hymn book my husband's buddy had with the keyboard. Just a few measures in on the treble clef. I'll worry about the bass later. I look forward to when I can see a note on the staff and know what note to press without thinking about it.


You are doing fine. Just remember that everyone has had to start at sometime.


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## Sonata

Well, the section in my book on rhythm and time signatures went over my head. I mean, I understand whole notes, half, etc well enough. But everything else doesn't click. Well, I'll try a couple of the basic exercises with a metronome to see if it sticks, and listen to the CD samples. But I think this is one section that by and large will be in the hands of my piano teacher to help me with, when I start up with formal lessons next year.


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## realdealblues

Time signatures take a little work. I know what they "mean" but I don't always "get" them. I know 4/4 well enough and I think of 3/4 as a Waltz beat (which most people do). I only know 7/4 time because that's Money from Pink Floyd...lol.

Music theory was always hard for me. I just play by feel and ear now (I play guitar 99% of the time and I dabble in keyboards). 

For me it's more important to know how to figure things. In my guitar playing I know how everything works, but I don't have any of it memorized. I know "how" to figure out what the major 3rd of a Bb scale is, but off the top of my head I don't have a clue what note it is. 

Moral of the story: I just didn't work on it hard enough, but the more you figure out "how" things work, and spend the time actually doing them, the more it will make sense.


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## Lunasong

Sonata, have you tried clapping or tapping the rhythms?

If you don't understand how the note values fit into the time signature, it's actually rather formulaic:
Top value in the time signature is how many beats in a measure.
Bottom value is which note value gets one beat.
Thus 3/4 is three beats per measure, quarter note gets the beat.
3/8 is three beats per measure, eighth note gets the beat.

If you do understand how the note values fit into the time signature, but you are having problems thinking about what note and its value at the same time, try clapping or tapping the rhythm first.

Once you get the rhythm by clapping, then try playing the phrase on the piano.

Working with a metronome is a good idea and will help you develop good habits.


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## Sonata

Thanks for the suggestions Lunasong, I will give those a try. Part of my problem I think is that I've not had the proper amount of time to grasp it. For the most part I've been practicing or reading in 15-20 minute chunks. For just playing on the keyboard that's fine, but not for understanding some parts of music theory. Perhaps I'll make it a goal to spend an hour chunk on the weekend on theory aspect of it, during my son's nap.


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## Sonata

Thought I'd continue to post updates periodically.

Unfortunately, had a bit of a break in practicing or reading my music book. It's been about a week. I had to focus on some housework, then my weekend trip, and I found I really needed some extra sleep. But I read my practice book during my lunchbreak, and I plan to get back to the keyboard tonight.

My goals are to start scales today. I've had fun playing different melodies, but it's time to get back to business and work on really building a good foundation as well. Besides, my husband has been practicing scales for about four days now and I can't let him get too far ahead! :lol:


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## Mickey

Good Luck. It's best to devote many hours to practice for results. I need to heed this advice.


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## Jaws

Mickey said:


> Good Luck. It's best to devote many hours to practice for results. I need to heed this advice.


You don't need as many hours if you plan the practice so that it is concentrated.


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## Mickey

what kind of concentration do you suggest ? I guess scales is just my warm-up. I've been including it in my lessons.


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## Lukecash12

Head_case said:


> How far have you got Sonata?
> 
> Have you learnt how to play Scriabin's Black Mass yet lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (J/k)


That's a nice performance. Maybe metered out too evenly, not enough rubato, but the inner voicing is great, and so is the dynamic control.


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## Lukecash12

I teach piano myself, and I thought I'd impart a little gem to you, sonata, one that can help along literally every step of the road. It's called post practice improvement. You're probably familiar with the idea of muscle memory. If you aren't, you should probably look it up because it is significant for pianists to be familiar with it. Now, post practice improvement is the build up of muscle memory after practice. And when does the most improvement happen for muscle memory? When you sleep. This is why many pianists today will take passages from music or specific technical issues that they need to improve on, and play it as much as 100 times in a row, careful to do it just in the manner prescribed by their teachers, as loudly as they can, and then they go right to bed. It can hurt your hands to do things the right way, so that may have to do with how many times you can do it right in a row, but if you can it's always better to get more repetitions, within reason. You will find that even that next morning, the challenging thing you just played is a little easier already. Give it a week, and the results will be more noticeable. Practice piano every day like this, like myself, and you're sure to see quite a bit of improvement because of this. So many people get stuck because their muscle memory doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and this technique gives you a real edge. I used to get stuck often before I learned this, and I haven't felt stuck since.

But there's no need to push yourself. I just thought you'd like to know about this little edge you can get. It's the type of edge that doesn't protrude all that much after a day, but it makes it's way into something big after just a month.


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## Sonata

I am familiar with muscle memory, luke, and what you're saying make sense. I tend to practice at night anyway with my schedule, so I'll be sure to do at least some scales before bed on a nightly basis, and then more down the line once I have lessions.



> originally posted by *mamascarlatti*: Try the note identification exercise here. You can customise it to suit as you make progress.


Thank you! These exercises are going to be helpful.


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## Jaws

Mickey said:


> what kind of concentration do you suggest ? I guess scales is just my warm-up. I've been including it in my lessons.


It is important to concentrate on what you are doing all the time you are practicing otherwise you aren't really learning anything.

I hope that you are playing your scales from a scale book not just from finger patterns on the keyboard. If you are thinking of playing classical music on the piano, not jazz you need to read all of your scales while you are practising. The reason for this is that it improves your reading and your eye to hand coordination, which is very important for sight reading.

If when you are practising you find that you are no longer giving it your whole concentration, have a break. There is no point in doing hours of practise with your mind on something else, this is a complete waste of time. People who practise with full concentration and in a constructive way ( there is no point in practising something that you can already play, only do the bits you can't play) get further with less time than those who don't.


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## Sonata

A little update: I'm pleased with how things are coming along so far. My progress is slow, but continual if that makes sense. My big obstacle is time. I am trying to make sure I get my hands on the keys six or seven days a week even if it's just five minutes of scales. I didn't play for a week and I was very frustrated when I first started back. When I'm playing every day I find I really enjoy it and want to play more, so I just need to keep it up.

I'm working on several little pieces at present. 

Scarborough Fair
All I Ask of You (Phantom of the Opera)
What Child Is This
Oh Holy Night
To Zanarkind (From Final Fantasy X)
Happy Birthday (only because it's my toddler's favorite song....the things we do for our kids! :lol

I have not started this but I will in a few days: Schumann's melody, Op 68. It looks relatively basic and will be my introduction into classical music playing. I'm going to work on improving my current ones, and trying to get some of the Schumann score into my memory before I start it.

I just downloaded a metronome app for my iPad and am going to start praticing with it because I have terrible rhythm. So far I am practicing my scales and chords with both hands, but only playing my songs with the right hand. In the next week or two I intend to start learning a piece with my left hand.

Practice for now is mainly about what my impulse of the moment is, just what I feel like doing (scales, this piece or that piece, etc.) Once I get a piano, or sooner, I do intend to structure my practice ahead of time to get more out of it. ie. plan a goal time, play for so many minutes, do this set of scales, then work on a particular piece. My husband has been playing as well, and it's just been a fun thing to do alone but also to discuss difficulties we are having on a piece, or hearing the other person's progress.


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## Manxfeeder

Sonata said:


> My husband has been playing as well, and it's just been a fun thing to do alone but also to discuss difficulties we are having on a piece, or hearing the other person's progress.


Sounds like a great and supporting guy!


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## Sonata

He is a great guy  We make it an effort to support each other's interests. He does workouts and tae kwon do something like six days per week and such.


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## Head_case

Re: Metronomes - if you are on an android/iPhone, try downloading 'Simple Metronome' or 'Mobile Metronome'. I find it more handy to use on my smart phone on the go. 

It won't apply to you, but for other beginners, there are tuners on open source for smartphones. 'Pitchlab' is my favourite. 'Gstrings' is insensitive and unable to pick out tones from instruments with strong overtones (like the harp or romantic flute). 

For theory and decoding, 'Musicnotes' is interesting as is 'Ensemble Composer'. 

Best thing is these apps are all free and easy to cart in a smartphone to keep you busy


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## Sonata

So I'm glad I'm learning for my own pleasure, and pretty much just want to play for myself and close family. Why? I know I'd have performance nerves! I discovered this when we were at the local piano dealer, and at my husband's friend's house. It was like I'd forgotten over half of what I taught myself. Even with the sheet music in front of me, I was stumbling over notes and getting the rhythm all wrong. Fortunately that settled down after awhile, once I was able to focus. But it probably took a good twenty minutes or so yesterday. 

I'm not really interested in recitals or anything like that, though I suppose I'd be willing to give it a shot if my future instructor recommends them occasionally. I'm not surprised really that I had this reaction, as I tend to be quite shy anyway.


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## Head_case

hey - that's perfectly normal. As a newcomer to the piano, you'll find that playing in front of people is like taking exams - only 10% of your head knowledge gets committed to paper/piano. 

Just playing over time ...slowly in front of husband, or another person, or dabbling here and there....you'll find it almost uninteresting that people are there. I used to play piano, but I think I hated the instrument, I wanted a bigger hammer than the little ones inside lol. 

The funny thing about playing in public, is that if you are playing pleasant easy going repertoire, you only need to hit about half the notes for people to join the dots and reconstruct the rest. There's something about playing a live instrument which makes people listen to your playing, without being judgemental or critical (unless you are on the X Factor or Big Brother lol). Cue Youtube: upload anything, and a mean gang of puerile nasties will try and diss everything from behind their warrior keyboard. 

The only time I've found people being unpleasant to me when I play an instrument is the neighbour. Maybe I've annoyed her doing fingering drills for 2 hours lol.


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## davinci

Best of luck, Sonata...I really admire u. I learned to read music in my youth; clarinet, drums, tympani but when I got into a rock band, I never had to use sheet music. Long story short, I'm now 50 and have forgotten everything.


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## Sonata

What the heck? I was so excited to get my piano but now I feel overwhelmed with it. I am frustrated by my lack of ability. I know it's different than playing a keyboard, but I am just bummed that the euphoria wore off so quickly. I sound off. I'm trying to do basic chord and scale excercises. I don't get it.


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## Ravndal

Sonata said:


> What the heck? I was so excited to get my piano but now I feel overwhelmed with it. I am frustrated by my lack of ability. I know it's different than playing a keyboard, but I am just bummed that the euphoria wore off so quickly. I sound off. I'm trying to do basic chord and scale excercises. I don't get it.


You need to start with piano lessons. It is very inspiring with a good teacher..


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## PetrB

Bartok ~ Microkosmos, Book I. _Indispensable_, teaches you notes, counting and playing all at once. Whatever other materials you may be learning from, do not begin without it.


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## Sonata

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I think part of it, most of it, is all this other stuff that's going on. A lot of work issues, we're being bought out, it sucks. It's just getting tinto my headspace in a big way.


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## Nariette

Good luck! It's never to late to learn, if you already have motivation like this, and know what you want. A few days ago I started playing the viola (with only little experience on the violin, two years as a child), and I thought I was old to learn a new instrument (I'm fifteen years old), so now I know that I'm not that late (you are not old, just older than I am). It's good that you have someone that is willing to help you, learning to play an instrument by yourself can be hard for some people. 
I hope you have fun playing, there is only one thing better than listening to beautiful music, and that is making beautiful music.


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## Sonata

Nariette, that's great! The viola is a lovely instrument. Good luck in your journey  I'd be happy to hear updates down the road as you progress.

Yesterday was fun! I got quite a bit of time here and there on the pano, and hopefully more today. My initial apprehension is gone and I'm feeling pretty happy about it and more comfortable with the instrument. I'll have some good practice time today because my husband and son will be out and about this morning. I am going to look up the Bartok Microkosmos. 

I will be getting lessons, but need to wait a couple of months. They are affordably priced but even so, I want to catch up from Christmas bills first.


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## Nariette

Sonata, I know right? It's so underrated! Most people thinks it's just lower potch, but the sound is different because the size. I received my viola today, took some time to tune it, and to get it working I had to put some effort into the bow. 
I play the piano myself, too, and our neighbor can't handle sound so I'm only allowed to play half an hour a day, and not at all on sundays. So, we got a special piano which has a little cabinet inserted so we can play over the headphones. It's handy when you want to record your playing, but the acoustics of the normal unplugged sound is so mich better! 
I take my viola classes from a conservatory student, she only asks 20 euros an hour while professionals charge 25 euros half an hour.


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## Jaws

Nariette said:


> Good luck! It's never to late to learn, if you already have motivation like this, and know what you want. A few days ago I started playing the viola (with only little experience on the violin, two years as a child), and I thought I was old to learn a new instrument (I'm fifteen years old), so now I know that I'm not that late (you are not old, just older than I am). It's good that you have someone that is willing to help you, learning to play an instrument by yourself can be hard for some people.
> I hope you have fun playing, there is only one thing better than listening to beautiful music, and that is making beautiful music.


Anyone can learn any musical instrument at any age. The most important thing is to do regular practise. Someone starting at the age of 5 who never does any practise won't be any good. Age is not the important factor. Practice is.


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## Nariette

Jaws said:


> Anyone can learn any musical instrument at any age. The most important thing is to do regular practise. Someone starting at the age of 5 who never does any practise won't be any good. Age is not the important factor. Practice is.


True, but practise only comes when the person is motivated. Young children who get forced by their parents often grow up to either like it naturally or hate it, because they never liked to do it in the first place and were forced to do it.


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## Jaws

Nariette said:


> True, but practise only comes when the person is motivated. Young children who get forced by their parents often grow up to either like it naturally or hate it, because they never liked to do it in the first place and were forced to do it.


The motivation is what many adults starting musical instruments have, and many young children don't have. Many adult late starters that I know are going to be better than people who started at school and haven't practised for many years.


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## Nariette

Jaws said:


> The motivation is what many adults starting musical instruments have, and many young children don't have. Many adult late starters that I know are going to be better than people who started at school and haven't practised for many years.


Finally, someone who agrees! Some people say that you should start as early as possible, but I think learning to read music and then giving the oppurtunity as a young adult/teenager works the best.


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## Jaws

Nariette said:


> Finally, someone who agrees! Some people say that you should start as early as possible, but I think learning to read music and then giving the oppurtunity as a young adult/teenager works the best.


If anyone suggests that you need to start really young to learn to play a musical instrument ask them this question. If a child starts at age 5 and does no practice between lessons will they be better or worse after 2 years of learning than a 60 year old person starting an instrument who practises every day?

If the answer is the 5 year old you will know that 1) they probably believe in fairies, they certainly believe myths. 2) They don't have an open mind. 3) They don't understand the importance of practice. 4) They probably haven't taught any adults who are very good.

I started my second study instrument, oboe, from the beginning, at age 42, and overtook lots of people who had started it at school. I started viola when I was 15. I played the oboe better than the viola after about 1 year. It took about 5 years to get there on the viola. So as you can see age has got nothing to do with it.


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## Sonata

Very encouraging to hear! I've definitely made some progress in my short time playing. I'm really looking forward to starting lessons.


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## Jaws

Sonata said:


> Very encouraging to hear! I've definitely made some progress in my short time playing. I'm really looking forward to starting lessons.


Well done! Now you know that practice works! All you have to do is carry on practising and you will make more progress.


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## Ravndal

Sonata said:


> Very encouraging to hear! I've definitely made some progress in my short time playing. I'm really looking forward to starting lessons.


Prepare to be broken down by your teacher, and start practicing from scratch^^ can be tough. I would know!


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## Sonata

Yeah, I thought that's how it would go. I'm planning for it


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## Sonata

My mother in law just gave me "Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course" volume one for Christmas. Awesome! So I've started to read that today. I already know some of it, but I'm going to go from the beginning because I started learning in a slightly disorganized way.


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## Ravndal

just practice with your head. be patient. relax your wrists, elbows and fingers. remember that you are not pressing keys down, you are grabbing them with your finger muscles. always warm up with scales, hanon and cortot.


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## Sonata

Whoa is my future instructor. My rhythm is abysmal. Even with a metronome :lol:


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## Vaneyes

Sonata said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys! I think part of it, most of it, is all this other stuff that's going on. A lot of work issues, we're being bought out, it sucks. It's just getting tinto my headspace in a big way.


Take those challenges head-on, Sonata. I hope to see/hear you at Carnegie one day.

View attachment 11377


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## Vaneyes

Ravndal said:


> just practice with your head. be patient. relax your wrists, elbows and fingers. remember that you are not pressing keys down, you are grabbing them with your finger muscles. always warm up with scales, hanon and cortot.


Though I've never been a pianist ('cept for 'Chopsticks'), I suspect "angles" are important, as I positively know they are for golf (though not like my avatar. As I've said before, that was taken from a windy day).

Angles for spine, shoulders, arms, hands, head, feet, etc. You must be in the correct position, in order to give yourself the best chance for action.

Everyone is slightly different. GG, of course, was the epitome of exaggeration, with his neck in the vicinity of the keyboard.


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## Ravndal

haha yes, GG is probably the worst example. I would probably say that flexibility is the most important thing. Being flexible with your wrists. In golf you have to be a bit more "stiff".

But yeah, its important to have high wrists, and have a good chair adjustment.


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## Vaneyes

Ravndal said:


> haha yes, GG is probably the worst example. I would probably say that flexibility is the most important thing. Being flexible with your wrists. In golf you have to be a bit more "stiff".
> 
> But yeah, its important to have high wrists, and have a good chair adjustment.


Re golf, "still" would probably be a better term, until the hinging of the wrists. You don't want anything stiff in the golf swing, though it can appear so--example, the seemingly straight left arm (if one's a righty) until follow-through.


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## Ravndal

Oh you make me miss golf. I'm probably the worst player alive, but.. we only have maximum 5 months of warm weather here in Norway, and half the time it is raining. I know I'm going way off topic here, and I'm obviously not going to start a thread about this, but what is your handicap?


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## Sonata

Vaneyes said:


> Though I've never been a pianist ('cept for 'Chopsticks'), I suspect "angles" are important, as I positively know they are for golf (though not like my avatar. As I've said before, that was taken from a windy day).
> 
> Angles for spine, shoulders, arms, hands, head, feet, etc. You must be in the correct position, in order to give yourself the best chance for action.
> 
> Everyone is slightly different. GG, of course, was the epitome of exaggeration, with his neck in the vicinity of the keyboard.


Right you are! I'm actually in the middle of "what every pianist needs to know about the human body"


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## Sonata

May not be of too much interest, but I may periodically post lists of songs I'm working on, and/or time logged in practice. Nice for a personal journaling so to speak.

Right now I'm working on multiple songs

*Scarborough Fair*: I have mentioned this a few times, it seems to be one I'm spending my most time on. I am working on a two-handed version, really just getting my feet wet. There are chords for the bass clef, but I have not worked on chords yet except for a very brief overview. So I've been playing the right hand as usual, and the left hand just using the root note of the chord for now. Eventually when I learn chords, I'll come back and learn the song that way. But I really wanted to get both hands moving, and this approach seems to be working fine for me so far. I have been able to play all the way through and more or less have the notes "right" sometimes, but it is still rough. I'm hoping to have it sounding nice and polished in a week

*Brahm's Lullaby*: I'm learning the right hand now, will do the same method with single-note left hand accompaniment once I'm pleased with the previous song.

*Ode to Joy & When the Saints Go Marching In*: Small fragments of melody from my piano workbooks. Right hand-only on these.

*Happy Birthday To You*: My son's favorite, I'm learning it for him. Right hand only now, I'll do single note accompaniment as above once I'm pleased with the previous.

*Wheels on the Bus*: Another one he likes (wouldn't be my first choice, except I'm the mom of a toddler, what can I say!) I haven't learned it yet, but I have the sheet music ready.

Once I'm pleased and/or bored with these :lol: I'll go back and spend more time on my piano workbook for my next stage of progress.

Future planned songs:

Oh Holy Night
What Child Is This
Melody: Schumann
Solitude: David Nevue.
Think of Me: Phantom of the Opera

All of the above I've worked on, and they were either too difficult or I only learned right hand. I plan to start work on one or two of those in a month to six weeks. I am going to get arrangements for an instructor set up in the next week, with the goal of starting lessons in March.

Lately I've been spending approximately 40 minutes per day at the piano. Since I've only been playing such a short time this is a fairly rough estimate. I don't have a "time goal" at this point, other than "every day". I'm sure that will change when I start lessons.


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## hreichgott

Congratulations on starting piano as an adult  I teach both adults and kids. The beginner period can be overwhelming yes, esp. if you haven't been a beginner at something in a while. 

I'd suggest giving the Schumann a rest for a while longer, with absolutely no sense of failure or embarrassment. It isn't as easy as it looks and there are a couple rocky measures with multiple moving voices in the right hand. And it won't sound satisfyingly good until you have more practice bringing out a melody over a "busy" quickly moving accompaniment. My students usually don't get that piece until they've played at least 10 or 12 pieces with melody and simpler left hand accompaniment, plus some pieces with two melodies at the same time (usually Bach or Petzold two-part minuets), with the goal of making the music sound beautiful at every stage, not just learning the notes. Everyone progresses at a different pace but the soonest any of my students got to that point was about 6 months after starting lessons.

If you're itching for some Schumann maybe start with the Happy Farmer.


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## Sonata

Not Schumann in particular, just some classical in general. I hear Clementi's sonatatinas are on the easier side....I was thinking of trying them in 3-4 months. Thanks for your tip!


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## mensch

Sonata said:


> Not Schumann in particular, just some classical in general. I hear Clementi's sonatatinas are on the easier side....I was thinking of trying them in 3-4 months. Thanks for your tip!


The Op. 36 Sonatinas are indeed on the easier side, but still quite difficult to play in time and without error for the beginning pianist.

Bach has written several pieces suitable for beginning pianists, like his "Inventions and Sinfonias". You could also try Schumann's "Album for the Young".

Alfred also sells introductions to many popular composers based on different skills levels. Take this introduction to Mozart as an example.


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## Sonata

Very helpful thanks. I put the Bach Inventions and Sinfonias into my wishlist for later. I like that it's Alfred, as I am learning from the Alfred series already.


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## hreichgott

Well, I'd call the Bach inventions late intermediate to early advanced depending on the individual piece. And the easier Clementi early intermediate.
But maybe I bring students along too slowly? 

Also, to clarify, Schumann's "Album for the Young" is a book-length set of pieces that includes your Melody, the Happy Farmer and a bunch of other pieces that range from early intermediate to early advanced in difficulty.

Here are some suggestions in the "easier than Schumann Melody" category. This is a bit indebted to Suzuki piano as that's how I learned at first, and how I teach now. Many of these are now in the public domain and available for free public download at imslp.org
Bartok: "Mikrokosmos" volume 1
Bach, Petzold and others: Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
Mozart: Minuet in F major K. 2
Coulthard and others: "Music of Our Time"
Haydn: German Dances Hob. IX:22
Kabalevsky: Clowns
Weber: Cradle Song
Hummel: 6 Easy Pieces, Op. 42

By the way, catalog numbers (K. for Mozart, Hob. for Haydn, BWV for Bach, Op. for most other people) are for this situation: "I typed in Mozart Minuet and there are 1000 results! What now?" Catalog numbers exist to differentiate between compositions by the same composer with the same title, so instead of 1000 results for "Mozart Minuet" you can happily ask for "Mozart Minuet K. 2" and find the one you want.


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## Sonata

Starting my first lesson this weekend! I'll update afterwards


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## vertigo

Hi Sonata,

my story is in some ways similar to yours. I have always been passionate about music but for the past few years I was unsatisfied by most of the music that came my way. I was thinking that I'm growing old, that like many people my age, music would start playing a minor role in my life. And then one night, through a labyrinthine, drunken journey on youtube , BOOM! I somehow start listening to Mozart's symphony #40. That was it. A new world opened up for me. Soon after, I realized for the first time in my life, that I needed to understand this world, this Mozartean perfection on a deeper, structural level. So here I am, a 33 year old fellow beginner pianist.:tiphat:


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## Sonata

Vertigo: that's great! I can't wait to hear about your progress! What are you practicing on? Your own acoustic, digital piano, or keyboard? Or borrowing one from someone else? Are you self-teaching or taking lessons?

My first lesson is today, an intro lesson with a man who is a church organist and has about 30 years of teaching experience. 15 dollars per lesson, and 8 miles from my house. Next Saturday I have an introductory lesson with another guy who has about 10 years experience and outside of music, works for an audiologist. He is 16.50 dollars per lesson, so not too much difference in price though he's not at close. The second guy was a little more personable than the first when I called on the phone. 

But I'm going to both with an open mind, see what their teaching styles are and how they handle the issue of my wrist soreness, then decide who to stick with for my teacher. Should be interesting!


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## Head_case

> My first lesson is today, an intro lesson with a man who is a church organist and has about 30 years of teaching experience. 15 dollars per lesson, and 8 miles from my house. Next Saturday I have an introductory lesson with another guy who has about 10 years experience and outside of music, works for an audiologist. He is 16.50 dollars per lesson, so not too much difference in price though he's not at close. The second guy was a little more personable than the first when I called on the phone.


That's incredible...you're so fortunate...! And you live in such a vast continent ...to find a music teacher for US$15 an hour is just....incredible!

To give you an example: I took one flute lesson 2 years ago when I decided to resume playing the flute after dropping it in school. I had to travel 2 hours to get to the lesson. It cost me £40. Worse yet, the music teacher wouldn't teach me refresher courses on my alto flute, and insisted I start back on a C concert flute which I had no interest in. Even worse ....he wouldn't teach me classical music, and started pulling out the Beatles and other pop songs I had never heard of in my life, expecting me to be able to whip along to the tune.

I wasted the whole hour and could barely blow properly through my flute, and he just casually remarked 'to keep on practicing'.

I resolved never to go back to him after that lesson, however couldn't find another teacher. 6 months later, an acquaintance who plays professionally, tried my alto flute and told me that the mechanism was all messed up and the toneholes were not sealing, which is why I was unable to play it (this is always the danger of going back to a former instrument, which has languished in neglect in the attic for ages....).

A good teacher would at least start off with checking the student's instrument is working, just like a driving instructor, makes sure a student checks the tyres etc before take off.

You're fortunate to have such great options ...who knows....Mr Cold Organ Player may warm up


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## vertigo

> Vertigo: that's great! I can't wait to hear about your progress! What are you practicing on? Your own acoustic, digital piano, or keyboard? Or borrowing one from someone else? Are you self-teaching or taking lessons?
> 
> My first lesson is today, an intro lesson with a man who is a church organist and has about 30 years of teaching experience. 15 dollars per lesson, and 8 miles from my house. Next Saturday I have an introductory lesson with another guy who has about 10 years experience and outside of music, works for an audiologist. He is 16.50 dollars per lesson, so not too much difference in price though he's not at close. The second guy was a little more personable than the first when I called on the phone.
> 
> But I'm going to both with an open mind, see what their teaching styles are and how they handle the issue of my wrist soreness, then decide who to stick with for my teacher. Should be interesting!


Hi! Just had my first proper lesson today too! 
I'm taking my lessons at a musical conservatory very close to my house. It's supposed to be very good.
I had met my teacher, a lady about my age, just before the conservatory closed for Christmas vacations.
She could tell I was very excited to start, so she gave me some material to cover in the two weeks until the conservatory opened again.
I finished that material and started Alfred's basic adult course book by myself. (I don't know if you know it, if you do I reached "when the saints go marching in").
I thought I had done everything right but she showed me that there were many details, big and small, I was doing wrong.
It made me realize that the only proper way to learn the piano is with a teacher...
The cost is 25 euros/lesson. I bought an electric piano (with weighted keys) the Yamaha YDP-141. I read very good reviews on the net about it as a beginner piano.
I think the wrist soreness shouldn't be there. Be careful with that! Tell your teacher about it...

All in all, I'm super excited..when I sit down for practice, I find it hard to stop...I'm guessing that's a good sign

What about you? Have you been self-taught until now? How far have you reached? 
Hope you hit it off with the teacher today! Let us know how it went..


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## Ravndal

15$ for lessons? that is cheap! id probably make more recycling bottles for an hour.


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## Sonata

Head_case said:


> That's incredible...you're so fortunate...! And you live in such a vast continent ...to find a music teacher for US$15 an hour is just....incredible!
> 
> To give you an example: I took one flute lesson 2 years ago when I decided to resume playing the flute after dropping it in school. I had to travel 2 hours to get to the lesson. It cost me £40. Worse yet, the music teacher wouldn't teach me refresher courses on my alto flute, and insisted I start back on a C concert flute which I had no interest in. Even worse ....he wouldn't teach me classical music, and started pulling out the Beatles and other pop songs I had never heard of in my life, expecting me to be able to whip along to the tune.
> 
> I wasted the whole hour and could barely blow properly through my flute, and he just casually remarked 'to keep on practicing'.
> 
> I resolved never to go back to him after that lesson, however couldn't find another teacher. 6 months later, an acquaintance who plays professionally, tried my alto flute and told me that the mechanism was all messed up and the toneholes were not sealing, which is why I was unable to play it (this is always the danger of going back to a former instrument, which has languished in neglect in the attic for ages....).
> 
> A good teacher would at least start off with checking the student's instrument is working, just like a driving instructor, makes sure a student checks the tyres etc before take off.
> 
> You're fortunate to have such great options ...who knows....Mr Cold Organ Player may warm up


I'm sorry that you've not had good experiences with a teacher . I completely agree he should have checked your instrument and let you learn on that one. I'm glad your friend helped you. Did you get a new flute then?


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## Sonata

> I think the wrist soreness shouldn't be there. Be careful with that! Tell your teacher about it...
> 
> All in all, I'm super excited..when I sit down for practice, I find it hard to stop...I'm guessing that's a good sign
> 
> What about you? Have you been self-taught until now? How far have you reached?
> Hope you hit it off with the teacher today! Let us know how it went..


No experience whatsoever until September when I started teaching myself to read music online, and tinker with a borrowed keyboard. My husband bought me a piano for Christmas, an acoustic Knabe. My whole story is pretty much chronicled in this very post 

First lesson went reasonably well. Seems like a nice guy, musician pretty much all of his life since age 3. Didn't seem super concerned about my wrist pain, said it'd just take time to build up strength, suggested playing no more than a couple ten minute sessions a day to start out with. I felt like I was sitting pretty far back from the piano though, my arms felt too straight. He was pleased with what I had done on my own and feels like I have good potential so that's encouraging.

My other intro lesson is next Saturday. (wish I could have done it sooner, but with training at work this week it's not possible). I'll make my choice by next Sunday and get my regular lessons set. The gentleman today liked that I was using the Alfred teaching book, and suggested that I continue to practice out of that until next time.


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## Ravndal

Sonata said:


> No experience whatsoever until September when I started teaching myself to read music online, and tinker with a borrowed keyboard. My husband bought me a piano for Christmas, an acoustic Knabe. My whole story is pretty much chronicled in this very post
> 
> First lesson went reasonably well. Seems like a nice guy, musician pretty much all of his life since age 3. Didn't seem super concerned about my wrist pain, said it'd just take time to build up strength, suggested playing no more than a couple ten minute sessions a day to start out with. I felt like I was sitting pretty far back from the piano though, my arms felt too straight. He was pleased with what I had done on my own and feels like I have good potential so that's encouraging.
> 
> My other intro lesson is next Saturday. (wish I could have done it sooner, but with training at work this week it's not possible). I'll make my choice by next Sunday and get my regular lessons set. The gentleman today liked that I was using the Alfred teaching book, and suggested that I continue to practice out of that until next time.


Congrats! is it the Alfred Cortot exercise book your using?


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## Sonata

It doesn't say Cortot on it, so I'm not sure. It's titled "Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course: All-in-One, Volume 1."

I know, I am pretty lucky about the lesson pricing. I'm guessing that's around the going rate for the Midwest region but I could be wrong.


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## Ravndal

Oh, okay. Nevermind then  btw, your ment to sit far away from the piano, and on the tip of the chair. Better control.

And everything you have to do different, will seem wrong and unpleasant, but that is probably because you have done it the wrong way for a long time  Like chair height, high wrists, far away from piano etc.


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## Sonata

Right, makes sense. My elbows were almost straight though....is that as it should be?

Though I guess it must be, as I said he's been doing music all his life.


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## Ravndal

elbows should be relaxed. did you have to stretch your arms?


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## Sonata

it kind of felt like I had to stretch, yes. I should have mentioned it to him.


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## Head_case

Sonata said:


> I'm sorry that you've not had good experiences with a teacher . I completely agree he should have checked your instrument and let you learn on that one. I'm glad your friend helped you. Did you get a new flute then?


Yes...it had the effect of slowing my return to playing the alto Boehm flute although I saved enough from not having lessons to buy another alto flute - ended up buying a new one (second-hand) and had the same problem. I learnt to never buy a second hand flute which hadn't been serviced 

I moved over from:










to playing opened holed 1 keyed flutes like the baroque traverso like:










and the simple system flute like:










You can see the last two types of flutes have a simpler key design - much easier to service and maintain than the complicated silver Boehm keying mechanism.


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## Ravndal

doesnt seem right if you have to stretch out.. but good luck with next one


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## Sonata

Thanks!  I'll update next week when I have the other intro lesson. If I happen to prefer the first guy, I'll clarify the positioning and explain that it feels like I'm straining. Doesn't help I have some muscle aches from sleeping funny the other night! :lol: But I'll get a ten minute session in tonight, so excited to be back after a week break from playing.


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## Sonata

Head_case said:


> Yes...it had the effect of slowing my return to playing the alto Boehm flute although I saved enough from not having lessons to buy another alto flute - ended up buying a new one (second-hand) and had the same problem. I learnt to never buy a second hand flute which hadn't been serviced
> 
> I moved over from:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to playing opened holed 1 keyed flutes like the baroque traverso like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the simple system flute like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the last two types of flutes have a simpler key design - much easier to service and maintain than the complicated silver Boehm keying mechanism.


Great! I'm glad you found a flute type that you're happy with  How often are you playing/practicing? I imagine those other types are easier to self-teach than the Boehm.


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## Vaneyes

Lesson price is cheaper than it was 200 years ago.


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## Head_case

The baroque traverso (short - about 55cm long) looks simpler, although is much harder to play than the alto flute (about 80cm long). The alto flute looks more complicated, but is much easier due to its large embouchure and design: intonation on the baroque traverso is a real work of art and really takes devotion to pull off. When I'm not putting my heart fully in it, I sound like a complete amateur. When I put my heart fully in it, I still sound like an amateur who can play a convincing phrase, riddled with intonation errors. Part of it, is the subtlety of playing the baroque traverso, and its acute sensitivity to tongueing, so it's very easy to 'explode' intonation by using too much force. The metal Boehm flutes demand more air, and aren't as sensitive to play. Baroque traverso fingering is also completely different from Boehm, but I'm comfortable switching between the different fingerings.

The simple system flute (3rd one) is a completely fingering system yet again. Like...I have 3 different fingerings specific to each type of flute, like being trilingual :/

Like the Boehm flute, it is chromatic (has the white and black keys of your piano), but it is quite quirky. For instance - when you do an ascending partial chromatic scale, like B-C-D, you can run linearly up the piano scale. The simple system note B is straightforward and then requires the right thumb to depress a key on the lower half of the flute to sound C, then let go of this key and pounce with the 2nd and 3rd fingers on the D. It's a fine balancing act, although the intonation of the C note is purer than the Boehm flute and the baroque traverso. The main advantage of it, is that it does not have the limitations of the Boehm for intonation: its intonation is purer, sweeter, as well as 'reedier' and less airy than the Boehm flute. It is ideal for romantic literature and baroque literature; the modern Boehm flute is best for 20th/21st century literature. I'm not impressed with it for baroque music at all, even if this is what's marketed mostly to us.

Of the three types of chromatic flutes above, I find the baroque traverso is easily my favourite, and the hardest. The simple system flute is the most elegant. I like the silver Boehm alto flute for its deep mellowness, but not the concert flute. 

You can see, having a piano is a more sane decision - since you only need to learn one fingering system for the piano (there is only one, right?!) than becoming bewildered by many different fingering systems to learn for each flute. 

I practice about 2 hours a day, or 4 hours during weekends. Come spring, I will quite happily spend around 12 hours playing, but recall, that I didn't go back to having a tutor - I've relied on what I learnt from school to form my foundation. I only do ensemble playing a few times a year now, just due to geographical isolation. Now, I look back at the years when I stopped playing, and I can't understand why I just gave up....that's how satisfying it is..

Anyway - didn't mean to hijack your thread - keep enjoying the piano and practice can be great fun!


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## Sonata

Oh I don't mind the information at all! I'm really enjoying talking with other people about their progress as well  Thanks for sharing!


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## Head_case

Haha...I don't know if I would call this progress......I probably play a lot worse than I used to....! But I'm having more fun with it than I used to 

One thing that I find with ensemble or duet playing, is that it helps to have another instrument break up the exposure that a solo can have. Like if you're playing guitar and piano, or flute and piano with someone, it's a lot less strenuous, rather like playing badminton or tennis doubles instead of singles.

How many lessons a month are you planning on? For US$15 at 8 miles away, I'd be thrilled with a lesson a week. Being in the city, the standard rate here is around US$60/hour unless a learner is willing to join in and sit in a class of under 12s....


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## Sonata

Weekly is my plan. (though occasionally I may be out of town and miss one here or there, but that's infrequent). Saturday afternoons, which is good because I'll be fresh instead of trying to do it after a work day.


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## Jaws

Sonata said:


> I'm sorry that you've not had good experiences with a teacher . I completely agree he should have checked your instrument and let you learn on that one. I'm glad your friend helped you. Did you get a new flute then?


One person I heard of chose their teachers by how advanced they would teach. So someone who only taught up to grade 8 here in the UK would be rejected because of the suspicion that that might be only as far as they had got themselves. A grade 8 player doesn't know enough about playing their instrument to be able to teach in such a way that they don't cause injury or very bad habits to an unsuspecting beginner pupil, especially if the pupil remembers school teachers praising someone who had passed grade 8 without explaining what it means in terms of music education in general. School teachers who praise their pupils for passing grade 8 without explaining that it is a beginner's exam are likely to be causing terrible problems if the grade 8 player thinks that they good enough to teach complete beginners. Complete beginners need very experienced teachers who are also very good players with very good techniques in order to avoid problems later.


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## Head_case

Sonata said:


> Weekly is my plan. (though occasionally I may be out of town and miss one here or there, but that's infrequent). Saturday afternoons, which is good because I'll be fresh instead of trying to do it after a work day.


That sounds like a good plan 

I always try and practice in the morning before work, or straight after work for 30 minutes before getting on to other things. Over a year, the discipline just becomes second nature, such that I have it in me to turn down social engagements because of scheduled flute practice :lol:

There are very few baroque traverso teachers in and around the country. Most tend to be concentrated around the conservatoire locations and are highly specialised. In fact, the tutor I'd approached had never ever played one (nor simple system either). He could just about play alto flute, but was mostly a saxophonist doubling up. They are comfortable teaching basic Boehm flute.

I suppose the difference is almost as wide as asking a piano teacher to teach harpsichord or organ....


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## Sonata

That's great that you're so disciplined. I try to get in some playing time on my days off when the kids are napping. I rarely ever play with the practice pedal on, just don't like the sound that way, but it still doesn't seem to bother my daughter when she's napping just across the room from me. Guess I'm not too terrible then :lol: Longer sessions come after they are in bed, though with my wrist issues I'm only playing 10-20 minutes a day and working up from there in the coming weeks.

Have to thank Ravndal for suggesting swimming. I swam a lot last winter but hadn't been yet this year. I went swimming today and wow, my hands have felt great. Feeling a little aching creep back in now that I'm typing, but they were fantastic for over four hours. I'm going to definitely keep swimming in my routine again. The exercise really helps my mental well being also.


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## Ravndal

That is great! Swimming and piano playing uses a bit of the same technique.


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## Head_case

Like I can imagine...


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## Sonata

Had an intro lesson with a different instructor yesterday, and this is the guy I'm going to stick with. I feel we clicked right off the bat. He is classically trained, and also enjoys playing blues and rock. In other words, right up my alley! A dollar and a half per lesson more than the other guy, and a further drive, but not terribly far. 

The good news: my current technique is fine. So although my joint troubles have not yet resolved, it doesn't sound like I'm doing more harm by playing. YAY! Two doctors and two instructors have all cleared my to play, though of course I have to listen to my body and not push it.

My instructor actually teaches out of the same Alfred book I've been working with, so that's convenient. I'm going to be working on rhythm, he advised me to actually clap out the rhythm of a piece before I sit down and play it. Since I have trouble with rhythm unless I know the song well, I think this will be effective for me. He's also dealt with tendonitis himself before, so he knows what I'm dealing with, and demonstrated some warm-up exercises.


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## Jaws

Sonata said:


> Had an intro lesson with a different instructor yesterday, and this is the guy I'm going to stick with. I feel we clicked right off the bat. He is classically trained, and also enjoys playing blues and rock. In other words, right up my alley! A dollar and a half per lesson more than the other guy, and a further drive, but not terribly far.
> 
> The good news: my current technique is fine. So although my joint troubles have not yet resolved, it doesn't sound like I'm doing more harm by playing. YAY! Two doctors and two instructors have all cleared my to play, though of course I have to listen to my body and not push it.
> 
> My instructor actually teaches out of the same Alfred book I've been working with, so that's convenient. I'm going to be working on rhythm, he advised me to actually clap out the rhythm of a piece before I sit down and play it. Since I have trouble with rhythm unless I know the song well, I think this will be effective for me. He's also dealt with tendonitis himself before, so he knows what I'm dealing with, and demonstrated some warm-up exercises.


Brilliant I wish you all the best!!!!!


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## Head_case

Haha...you've got two tutors now.......that's incredible. 

Sounds like the second one has a sympathetic method. 

No prizes for guessing who you're going to go with?


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## Sonata

What would the technical fix I needed to make if I felt like I had "too far to go" to push down on a key? Or maybe it's just that the carpal tunnel is making me THINK that's the case, I don't know.


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## Sonata

Taking a brief hiatus due to the tendonitis and carpal tunnel syndrome; will be getting some accupuncture and massage therapy, in addition to using wrist splints when I can. My goal is to resume playing piano on February 9th, I have a lesson that day. By then I will have taken a 20 day rest from piano. If there is no improvement at all between now and then with my symptoms, I'll consider up to a 3 month break to fully rehab (though I'm undecided on this point, I don't really want to take that long off. It will depend on discussions with my medical and instructor recommendations).

Either way, I'll be back to it for sure by April. If it's not fully resolved by then, I'll just accept that maybe it's become a chronic condition and treat/manage as much as possible. I'm actually feeling less down about it than I was previously, just have to come to terms with it and get it treated. My husband in the meantime is treating me to some lovely piano music nightly as he continues to improve.


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## Ravndal

That is sad! I'm so sorry to hear that =/

Oboe & Clarinet is beautiful instruments as well though (if it comes to the point that you cant play anymore, which I'm sure wont happen)


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## hreichgott

Hi Sonata, Is your teacher experienced in dealing with injured pianists? It would be good to work with someone who knows what s/he is doing in that department. Plenty of excellent teachers have lots of musical knowledge but don't emphasize the mechanical issues needed to play without aggravating an injury.


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## Sonata

He does have some experience in that, yes hreichgott, he has said that he's worked with that before. I don't know quite how extensively.

I am scheduled for my lesson on March 2nd. To some degree, I think this may be a chronic issue I am dealing with, however symptoms are improving. Three weeks cannot go quickly enough!


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## Sonata

The longer I'm away, I'm seeing a dilemma. Getting back to the piano is a mental thing as well as physical now. My wrists are finally feeling better, maybe 85-90% where they were. My shoulder is still pretty sore, but it doesn't limit me in my day to day activities as when I was having the worse wrist pain.

I just don't know where to go from here. I'm afraid of the wrist pain getting bad again.....I can deal with mild pain and would if it meant playing the piano. But at my worst, I had pain just changing my daughter's diaper or driving. I'm afraid to get to that point again. I thought about easing into it playing just five minutes at a time just to start back in, but honestly I'm pretty much back at the very beginning which is frustrating.

Where do I go from here? I don't even know.


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## Sonata

It'd be easier if I'd had a definite diagnosis, so I kind of knew how to manage things. Everything's felt like a tendonitis, but I never had any kind of injury to my shoulder, and the pain there did not start until AFTER I started treating the wrists. I did have an EMG which was normal, so no nerve problem thank goodness. So I just waffe and don't know how to handle things.


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## hreichgott

One thing is clear here.... you need to play the piano! It seems to have chosen you, like it or not.

The wrist pain must be very discouraging. I have recovered from tendonitis myself and remember that feeling of being scared that the pain will pop up again anytime. And then of course with tendonitis, fear leads to tension which leads to aggravating the tendonitis. But it sounds like you are getting the medical attention you need, and that's good. As far as how to play while this is happening -- maybe, as exciting as it is to delve into music with your teacher when you have your next lesson, it might be wise to make wrist pain the focus of the lesson. Ask your teacher to watch you play (even basic stuff) and give you a thorough critique of posture, hand and arm use, relaxation, efficient vs. inefficient movement, anything the teacher can think of that you might be able to work on so as to play more comfortably.

Let us know how you get on. We're rooting for you.


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## Sonata

hreichgott said:


> One thing is clear here.... you need to play the piano! It seems to have chosen you, like it or not.
> 
> Let us know how you get on. We're rooting for you.


Thank you so much for your kind comments! I feel much the same way, about the piano "choosing me" so to speak. It seems a little silly when I try to explain sometimes to other people how important this is to me when I've played for such a very brief time but it's true!


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## Sonata

Happy to update: 

The pain is not gone but I am learning to manage it; seeing what flares it up and what helps. Considering going gluten-free for a month to see if that helps; recommended by my doctor coworker, sometimes gluten can cause musculoskeletal inflammation. It'd be a huge lifestyle change, I'm going to keep up with accupuncture and give physical therapy a try first. 

The good news: I am playing again. Very briefly, no more than ten minutes a day right now. I'll take a day off if my body tells me to. I am giving myself another week at home, then I am officially back to lessons on March 16th. I am very excited!


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## soundlover

Good news for you!!If you can play again,even for 5 minutes I think you are getting better and better and I am very glad to hear.
Just be careful and don't get overexcited and hurt yourself hurt again.I wish you the best.Keep us updated.


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## RonP

That's good that you're working your way back into playing. Take it easy and don't overdo it.

I thought of you yesterday when I was doing some house work. We rearranged some rooms and I wound up moving my bass and cello into our bedroom "office". After that was done, I found a cheapie Yamaha keyboard that I bought for my daughter about 8 years ago and some instructional material. I decided to unpack it and put it in the office so that I can have an intonation reference for the stringed instruments, but I also may try to learn a little piano as time permits.


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## Sonata

let me know how you get on with the keyboard Ron! Sounds like you'll keep yourself rather busy.
The following information I already posted in "what are you working on now" but I rather like to update this post here as a running journal for myself.:

Had my piano lesson yesterday. The action on the Kawai upright that I have my lesson on is quite lighter than my Knabe at home. As such that threw me off when I was trying to demonstrate my crescendos and decrescendos. Darn. Still have a bit of nerves playing in front of my instructor as well......I hope and expect that will improve in the coming weeks.

My practice for the next two weeks will focus on scales both with parallel and contrary motion; I'm going to work on the minor scales as I've been mostly focused on the major so far. We started work on the C major chord, so I have two pieces in my Alfred book that use that. I'll also polish up my pieces from last lesson. On my own I have started to work on Robert Vandall's prelude #4 in F major.


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## Sonata

And I must note: as of the day after tomorrow, my journey into making music has been six months long already!! (not counting my one month hiatus!)


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## Taggart

Good luck! See my comment on http://www.talkclassical.com/5139-what-you-working-right-28.html#post435478


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## TwoFourPianist

Have fun on your journey!


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## Sonata

Starting chords! C Major and G7.Loving playing two hands! I was always so intimidated by that concept, coordinating each hand doing something seperately. But it's a matter of taking it slowly and practicing


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## Sonata

More a reminder note to myself, since there's so much I want to learn to play I probably won't be able to remember it all: I see a piano version of the sheet music "Nearer My God to Thee", and that may be pretty to try. Looks like it may be in my ability level before too long, provided I keep focused on reading the sheet music.


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## Taggart

Sonata said:


> More a reminder note to myself, since there's so much I want to learn to play I probably won't be able to remember it all: I see a piano version of the sheet music "Nearer My God to Thee", and that may be pretty to try. Looks like it may be in my ability level before too long, provided I keep focused on reading the sheet music.


Careful if you go on a liner!


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## evagreen

Good Luck sonata!Hope all goes well!!


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## trajcep

I congratulate you and wish you success in this beautiful idea you got on mind. It's not an easy decision to be made in your thirties to start playing piano. I hope you'll learn easy and achieve your goal in a few years. I share your passion in the classical music, especially the piano-part as a great instrument, but I've never decided to learn how to play it. I am nearly 30 now, so maybe I'll follow your steps in 3 years from now  Who knows


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## Sonata

Thanks for your thoughts everyone!! The decision itself was actually easy, I couldn't get the desire to play out of my mind!!! Carrying it out was a challenge though: cost of a piano, finding a teacher, injuries and TIME to practice most of all.

But here I am a few months later and loving it as much as-or more-than I imagined  trajcep I definitely recommend it.

I think I'm going to retire this thread and move further conversation to the "what are you working on" thread. Just so I can keep tabs on what everyone else is up to now! I may post updates in my blog too.....but I haven't really gotten around to starting my blog so we'll see about that.

I really thank my friends here at TalkClassical for finally getting me to take the plunge


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## KateSmith

Good luck! I'm sure you'll cope with it!


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