# Why do we say the things we say?



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I've been noticing idioms a lot lately.

For example I frequently get emails stating "Attached _please find _your credit memo . . ." and I almost always think, "Well, it's right there! Was it missing?"

Also this morning I was making a quick post on a thread here and started writing "For some reason . . ." In the US at least "for some reason" means "it is thus but we don't know why." But I got to thinking this is an international forum and maybe other cultures don't use that phrase. How would I know? Anyway, I changed "For some reason" to "Inexplicably" just to be safe.

Most idioms are far weirder than these examples, and we usually aren't even aware we are using them. When we do notice how crazy they sound, they can _hit us broadside_ or even _floor us_.

Do you have any weird or favorite language idioms? Are there any colorful idioms specific to your own culture you can share?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Yeah, a lot of original meanings to idioms have been lost in translation. I'm guessing you're talking about things beyond simply figures of speech, but just certain phrases that we use that could have double meaning.

_"Of course"_ I've wondered where this idiom came from. We use it so much, but how can it possibly mean what it means? _"OK" _Is also very mysterious, I don't think there's a consensus on where OK came from.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Weston said:


> For example I frequently get emails stating "Attached _please find _your credit memo . . ."


Translation: "It should be in the same envelope and if it isn't somebody screwed up, maybe even me."

It used to be worse. "I have the honor to remain your humble and obedient servant..." I mean, like, I'm supposed to empty your chamber pot?


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

KenOC said:


> It used to be worse. "I have the honor to remain your humble and obedient servant..." I mean, like, I'm supposed to empty your chamber pot?


Quite right too - and polish it with your nose. What is wrong with a bit of _brown nosing_ for the servants? :lol:


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Weston said:


> Also this morning I was making a quick post on a thread here and started writing "For some reason . . ." In the US at least "for some reason" means "it is thus but we don't know why." But I got to thinking this is an international forum and maybe other cultures don't use that phrase. How would I know? Anyway, I changed "For some reason" to "Inexplicably" just to be safe.


That phrase is, I think, an abbreviation of 'for one reason or another'. The Dutch language has that one too.



KenOC said:


> It used to be worse. "I have the honor to remain your humble and obedient servant..." I mean, like, I'm supposed to empty your chamber pot?


I have the habit of signing emails like Tristram Shandy:

I am, Great Sir[/Dame], 
(and, what is more to your Honour) 
I am, Good Sir[/Dame], Your Well-wisher, and 
most humble Fellow-subject,

The Author.


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## Guest (May 7, 2014)

In English we sign off a letter with "Yours sincerely" or "Yours faithfully". The French get very formal :
_Veuillez croire, Monsieur, à l'expression de nos sentiments distingués_.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> "OK" [/I]Is also very mysterious, I don't think there's a consensus on where OK came from.


From medieval France:


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> In English we sign off a letter with "Yours sincerely" or "Yours faithfully". The French get very formal :
> _Veuillez croire, Monsieur, à l'expression de nos sentiments distingués_.


A hundred years from now it will be replaced with _Later, dude!_


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Look into linguistics. It is the study of the how and why of language, may be a bit beyond the scope of this conversation, but it's still interesting.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

'Ser uña y carne' is Spanish for 'To be fingernail and flesh'. It's an idiom used to describe an inseparable pair of friends; 'bosom buddies'.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Why? Because if I didn't, I wouldn't be uniquely "hpowders" anymore.

Who would want THAT?

Not the spicy lass to my left; that's for sure!


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Hold your horses, Weston! Don't go making mountains out of molehills.

Serious answer: Expressions just make their way into a language and are used to the point of cliche because they're simple and immediate phrases to articulate whatever thought is coming to mind. "For the record", or "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" come to mind faster than "Just so you remember" and "If I do you a favor, can you return it?"

My favorite idiom is "get up on the wrong side of the bed" because I relate to that feeling a lot. Also, while "kiss my ***" is vulgar, it's a pretty decent insult. If it's good enough for Mozart to write it into songs, it's good enough for me :lol:


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

In the US south we have the expression, "Well, I never. . . ," kind of old fashioned now, as an expression of surprise. It must be short for "I never heard of such a thing before," or something similar, but I'm not certain.

There's a great podcast called A Way With Words that covers a lot of these origins. I find it fascinating, but of course most people around me find it (and me) duller than dirt. Oh well.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> 'Ser uña y carne' is Spanish for 'To be fingernail and flesh'. It's and idiom used to describe an inseparable pair of friends; 'bosom buddies'.


The Chinese phrase is, "As close as lips and teeth." It can apply to personal relations, countries, etc.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Weston said:


> In the US south we have the expression, "Well, I never. . . ," kind of old fashioned now, as an expression of surprise. It must be short for "I never heard of such a thing before," or something similar, but I'm not certain.
> 
> There's a great podcast called A Way With Words that covers a lot of these origins. I find it fascinating, but of course most people around me find it (and me) duller than dirt. Oh well.


Oh well, no accounting for taste - or the lack of it. An excellent thread. Well done! :tiphat:


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I love the french way of asking a question, there is no direct translation, but if you wanted to ask "What are you doing?" qu'est ce que tu fais? It's just a way of making a question out of a sentence. The reason I like it, is its fun to say.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Weston said:


> There's a great podcast called A Way With Words that covers a lot of these origins. I find it fascinating, but of course most people around me find it (and me) duller than dirt. Oh well.


Well, I'll go to the foot of my stairs!!!

sometimes, though, the explanation on such sites just doesn't make sense - as in 'creaking gates last longest' - which my gran used to comment on the long life of some of those who were often ill


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

'Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!' 'By the Cringe!' "Ee, By Gum!" 'It's black over Bill's Mother's?!' come to mind.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Well, I'll go to the foot of my stairs!!!


Wow! Is this an idiomatic expression or an obscure Ian Anderson lyric? I knew it only as the latter, but thought it just another surreal nonsense lyric typical of the time. (And now I have "A Passion Play" going through my head, which is very nice indeed.)



JCarmel said:


> 'Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!' 'By the Cringe!' "Ee, By Gum!" 'It's black over Bill's Mother's?!' come to mind.


I only know the "monkey's uncle" and "by gum!" expressions. What do the others mean?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

_cor blimey, guv'nor_ is my favourite. But I also like _don't get your knickers in a twist_. I mean, can you?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

LOL. I forgot where, but I recently read about a _linguistic convention_ which was mistakenly understood.

Though some English-speaking cultures have it (or had it) that it was rude upon first introductions to ask an individual what their work was, it is just about Question No. 1 in such situations in the U.S.

A visiting Italian was in such a situation, and when he spoke of his profession, heard the oft interjected, "Oh! Really?" In American usage, this is completely understood as, "Oh!" (= how interesting,) Really? (= do tell more!)" -- I.e. the interjection is an indicator you are listening, and are eager to hear more.

The Italian interpreted "Oh! Really?" as surprise, then doubt, as to the veracity of what he was saying; ergo, he felt his word was in doubt and his knowledge about his profession was constantly being challenged throughout the evening


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

deggial said:


> _cor blimey, guv'nor_ is my favourite. But I also like _don't get your knickers in a twist_. I mean, can you?


As an alternative, don't get your panties in a wad. Is that an Americanism?


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## Guest (May 8, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> 'Ser uña y carne' is Spanish for 'To be fingernail and flesh'. It's an idiom used to describe an inseparable pair of friends; 'bosom buddies'.


A French equivalent is _Copains comme cul et chemise_. [Rough literal translation: 'Friends as close as an **** with its shirt'. In other words, friends who are very close, inseparable.]


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> A French equivalent is _Copains comme cul et chemise_. [Rough literal translation: 'Friends as close as an **** with its shirt'. In other words, friends who are very close, inseparable.]


Quelle horreur! - Madame la Marquise


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Weston said:


> Wow! Is this an idiomatic expression or an obscure Ian Anderson lyric? I knew it only as the latter, but thought it just another surreal nonsense lyric typical of the time. (And now I have "A Passion Play" going through my head, which is very nice indeed.)
> 
> I only know the "monkey's uncle" and "by gum!" expressions. What do the others mean?


I'll go t'foot of our stairs = I'm rather surprised by that (I've heard Dutch people say something that sounds almost identical in the same situation) - I think Ian Anderson came from Blackpool - and it is a northern English expression, I believe

never heard the 'cringe' or 'Bill's mother' ones though!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

by the way, its coming down like stair rods outside at the moment! 


some Cypriot students told me that their expression is 'its coming down like chair legs!!

(also .... its raining cats and dogs ..... = currently there is heavy precipitation)


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

Never understood the cats and dogs one. Chair legs and stair rods, at least, routinely point downward.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Great thread! :cheers:
I like '*couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery*' or its polite version 'drinks party in a brewery'. But what we used a lot in our family to cut people down to size is 'she doesn't half *fancy her onions*!'

And if somebody made a foolish purchase, my father would ask, '*Did the shop have a glass door?*'
But a more common expression is that someone has been '*sold a pup*'. I wonder why?

Oh, and finally, if somebody is standing in front of the TV - '*You make a better door than a window!'*


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> Oh, and finally, if somebody is standing in front of the TV - '*You make a better door than a window!'*


I always say in that scenario, "You're father wasn't a glass maker."

Yes, it is a great thread. One of my favorites to this day was said by my father. It cracked me up then and it still does now. He was telling someone a story, and when another person in the story was so flabbergasted about what had just happened, my father said, "He didn't know whether to $h1t or wind his watch."

V


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

And how come we say "How come?" when we mean "why?" It isn't even a sensible grammatical structure.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

We have _For some reason_ in Lithuanian too, it's _Kažkodėl_ and it means the same as in English. It's not an idiom, but in Lithuanian we tend to say _Kam tai daryti?_ which means Why should it be done? It's quite weird since _Kam_ means to whom, but is often used as why. Often you can hear sentences such as _Kam tai reikalinga?_ - why is it needed?, in the purest sense asking why is it needed for someone (kam)?, while it is usually meant as _why_ is it needed, in the broadest sense. One idiom in Lithuanian is _Nugrybauti_ which means getting lost, whether physically or mentally (e.g. talking out of context). The translation of the word is loosely "went looking for mushrooms". In a sense it does make sense, since you can easily get lost while looking for those chanterelles...


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Weston said:


> I only know the "monkey's uncle" and "by gum!" expressions. What do the others mean?


"It's dark over Bill's mother-in-law's"

It's going to rain.

"Enough blue sky to make a pair of trousers"

It's going to stop raining.


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

I've no idea. Ask the guy who said Marion Bartoli wasn't a looker


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

26 Words That Have A Totally Different Meaning In Yorkshire 

NB No offense is intended to anybody from Lancashire by number 18.


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