# Longest death?



## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

Just finished watching Werther for the first time, and the entire fourth act is Werther dying. Wow. A tear or two was shed.

But it did get me thinking--what is the longest death scene in an opera? Y'all are so knowledgable I know you have some ideas on this!

(PS frankly I found it pretty slow going unless Werther or Werther and Charlotte were on stage...but it was thrilling to finally hear Pourquoi me réveiller in context. *sniff* In future I might even ff through the "other parts"...heresy I know...just go for the "good bits" And don't even get me started on that idiotic video production.)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't know which one is the longest, but in addition to Werther's, Manon Lescaut's death scene is also darn long.

In terms of phenomenal death scenes, I think my preferred ones are in Pélleas et Mélisande, and War and Peace.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

L'Africaine. Every time I thought "this is it" she popped up again.

On the other hand Pique Dame is amazingly short. Herman shoots himself, the chorus sings "he's still alive", Herman croaks out a couple of words, twitches once or twice and expires.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

FragendeFrau said:


> (PS frankly I found it pretty slow going unless Werther or Werther and Charlotte were on stage...but it was thrilling to finally hear Pourquoi me réveiller in context. *sniff* In future I might even ff through the "other parts"...heresy I know...just go for the "good bits" .)


Wouldn't like to think how many times I've watched that last scene.



> And don't even get me started on that idiotic video production.


Are you going to join the Benoît Jacquot lynch mob? I'm a founding member.


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## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Wouldn't like to think how many times I've watched that last scene.
> 
> Are you going to join the Benoît Jacquot lynch mob? I'm a founding member.


Sign me up for the lynch mob--when I think of what could have been! Don't get me wrong, I love all the backstage stuff and extras (and was really pissed that none of the extras for Carmen were on that DVD), but I want it separate from the production. Sure, if I'm THERE, it's no problem viewing the stage from afar and having the theater/orchestra pit in my peripheral vision. But it's simply different if you're watching on the screen. Ugh. How much did I NOT want to see Werther getting set up on his deathbed.

Speaking of watching scenes, I amused myself while exercising today by thinking about how much could be cut from Werther, but keep all the beautiful Werther and Charlotte arias, and still have the plot make some kind of sense--it's not as if there is a lot of "plot" anyway, it's mostly just the emotions of Werther & Charlotte. You'd have to keep the children rehearsing Christmas carols in July at the beginning, because...ARGH, the END! The two drunks could go, the "other couple" going to the ball could go, papa's aria could go, maybe even Sophie could go... You would have to keep Charlotte's husband around, but other than that....hmmm, I would like that opera much better!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

It may not be objectively among the longest, but I've always found that Rodrigo/Rodrigue's death in Don Carlo(s), if not sung and acted well, can seem pretty interminable.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Not an opera but Gerontius certainly takes his time. I keep envisaging the angels looking pointedly at their wristwatches.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

After _Simon Boccanegra_ drinks poisoned water, he takes a whole act to die.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I once knew a knight who got mortally wounded in last scene of second act and it took him 2/3 of another act to die.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Aramis said:


> I once knew a knight who got mortally wounded in last scene of second act and it took him 2/3 of another act to die.


Sounds like "_Tristan und Isolde_," which also came to my mind.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

In a similar vein (though admittedly this is cheating a bit), what about my namesake? In some productions (like Nikolaus Lehnhoff's), Amfortas expires at the end--in which case it's taken him a whole lengthy Wagnerian opera to die!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Yes, or the other Wagnerian character - Walther von Stolzing from Die Meistersinger.

He dies so slowly that opera ends and he's still alive and feeling fine.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

amfortas said:


> In a similar vein (though admittedly this is cheating a bit), what about my namesake? In some productions (like Nikolaus Lehnhoff's), Amfortas expires at the end--in which case it's taken him a whole lengthy Wagnerian opera to die!


:lol:

Gives the character the chance to sing their best stuff. They always sing better after they've been shot, stabbed, poisoned etc


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> Gives the character the chance to sing their best stuff. They always sing better after they've been shot, stabbed, poisoned etc


I know *I* always do!


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

Maybe not the longest one but don't forget also Gilda in Rigoletto ...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

FragendeFrau said:


> Sign me up for the lynch mob--*when I think of what could have been*! Don't get me wrong, I love all the backstage stuff and extras (and was really pissed that none of the extras for Carmen were on that DVD), but I want it separate from the production. Sure, if I'm THERE, it's no problem viewing the stage from afar and having the theater/orchestra pit in my peripheral vision. But it's simply different if you're watching on the screen. Ugh. How much did I NOT want to see Werther getting set up on his deathbed.


I think you've neatly expressed the feelings of everyone who has seen the DVD. And the problem is you can't necesssarily fast forward because the music is playing while we see all the back stage business.



> Speaking of watching scenes, I amused myself while exercising today by thinking about how much could be cut from Werther, but keep all the beautiful Werther and Charlotte arias, and still have the plot make some kind of sense--it's not as if there is a lot of "plot" anyway, it's mostly just the emotions of Werther & Charlotte. You'd have to keep the children rehearsing Christmas carols in July at the beginning, because...ARGH, the END! The two drunks could go, the "other couple" going to the ball could go, papa's aria could go, maybe even Sophie could go... You would have to keep Charlotte's husband around, but other than that....hmmm, I would like that opera much better!


The drunks must go, I agree.

BUT - as for the rest, I think it is essential to show how rooted Charlotte is in her family, and even in her religion, and how much she is expected and expects to do her duty, in order to explain why she doesn't tell Albert to take a running jump when he nonchalantly saunters back into her life. And Sophie with her joy and insouciance is the counterpoint to Werther's gloom and doom.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Il_Penseroso said:


> Maybe not the longest one but don't forget also Gilda in Rigoletto ...


I still remember, many years ago, before I knew anything at all about opera . . . my first girlfriend, an aspiring singer, telling me the plot of Rigoletto: "And she's chopped up in little pieces and stuffed in a bag . . . but she STILL SINGS!"

Obviously, her account was a bit muddled. But it was enough to put me off from exploring opera for a few more years.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

*Verdi La Taviata*.........entire Act 3 is slow death of Violetta in her bedroom, doesn't drag or become heavy handed, a worthy death scence!

*Alma is right about Manon Lescaut......*
Incredibly heavy handed ending that never seems to end, desert near New Orleans?????? :lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Edgardo/Lucia di Lammermoor.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Vaneyes said:


> Edgardo/Lucia di Lammermoor.


He does sing beautifully doesn't he after he's tried to disembowel himself.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Tristan definitely wins.

Unless you count the guy who's pretty much slowly dying during the ENTIRE OPERA but you can't tell when exactly does it begin. (Yes, I mean Aschenbach.)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Mimi in La Boheme - she takes the entire opera to die.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> Tristan definitely wins.


There is a joke to be made here whereas a poster offers that the longest death is actually that of the spectator who slowly dies of boredom during Wagner's Ring Cycle. I can't make this joke since I actually enjoy Wagner, I point this out now to preemptively block such a joke from being made with any accolades, thereby maintaining Wagner's pristine reputation. Thank you all, hope your evening has been pleasant.


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## prettyhippo (Apr 19, 2011)

This one wasn't ridiculously long, but I saw a version of Otello starring Placido Domingo, and after he stabbed himself and was still singing, he literally dragged himself from one side of the stage to the other. For a mortally wounded man, singing boldly, quite impressive.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Are there any operas (other than perhaps La Bohème) where it takes a character the entire opera to die?


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Are there any operas (other than perhaps La Bohème) where it takes a character the entire opera to die?


Violetta in La Traviata

De Rocher in Dead Man Walking


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Possibly the shortest death in opera: Harry Joy in "Bliss" by Brett Dean. Dies in the opening scene of a heart attack.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I love the act111 trio from " I Lombardi ", you get a sort of mini cello concerto before the dying stuff begins.


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## REP (Dec 8, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> The drunks must go, I agree.
> 
> BUT - as for the rest, I think it is essential to show how rooted Charlotte is in her family, and even in her religion, and how much she is expected and expects to do her duty, in order to explain why she doesn't tell Albert to take a running jump when he nonchalantly saunters back into her life. And Sophie with her joy and insouciance is the counterpoint to Werther's gloom and doom.


The Seattle Opera Young Artists Program performed Werther this year. I knew there would be cuts, but I was surprised by how many. The drunks were completely gone -- not just their little scene, but the characters themselves. And yes, the children too. The bailiff had exactly one line before Charlotte came on stage. (Without the children, the ending had Sophie singing the carol alone off-stage.)

It worked well enough to fool the people who had never seen Werther before, and I can't say I missed anything that had been cut.


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## tannhaeuser (Nov 7, 2011)

Not the longest, not the shortest, but the most spectacular.

Don Giovanni anyone?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Il Commendatore's death in the opening scene is quite spectacular. I would say that Harry Joy's death in the opening scene of Brett Dean's "Bliss" is the shortest though.


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