# Composers misjudging the popularity of a work



## Aurelian (Sep 9, 2011)

Bizet was so upset at the initial failure of _Carmen _that he died soon after its premiere.

Ravel was surprised and baffled by the popularity of _Bolero_.

Beethoven was surprised that his 7th Symphony was more popular than the 8th, which he considered the better work.

What are other examples?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think Beethoven was facetious; in any case he seemed mostly angry that the 8th symphony was received not equally well, not about the positive response towards the 7th.

Beethoven was irritated about the popularity of his early septet and the c minor variations. I don't know about which work (it might still have been a different one, or it might have been made up by Schindler) but he once said it was "crap, fitting for the audience of pigs".


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

> Beethoven was surprised that his 7th Symphony was more popular than the 8th, which he considered the better work.


I think Beethoven was right.


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## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

Saint-Saëns didn't want to publish The Carnival of the Animals while he was alive (despite liking it), so he was clearly misjudging how the public would receive the work.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Mozart must have had some consternations about the worth of his Requiem, choosing rather to die than to complete the work.

Or was it God who had the doubts?

Then again, I may be confusing Mozart with Bruckner. Not only do these two _sound_ alike to me, they _look_ alike, too.















Or are my old eyes just getting too ... old?

This guy resembles _both_ Mozart and Bruckner. (Or is it they who resemble his image?)









Except maybe the hair style is a touch more ... stylish?

Maybe it's the noses....

Who knows.

One thing I _do_ know: misjudging remains a largely subjective purview.


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## chipia (Apr 22, 2021)

lucashomem said:


> Saint-Saëns didn't want to publish The Carnival of the Animals while he was alive (despite liking it), so he was clearly misjudging how the public would receive the work.


Yes, the same could be said of Chopin's Faintaisie-Impromptu.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think Saint-Saens thought the Carnival was too slight a piece to merit publication? And Chopin's Fantaisie-Impromptu was deemed too similar to a piece already famous at the time. I think it was not the Moonlight sonata but something by Moscheles. It seems that posthumously the Chopin overshadowed whatever the other piece was...


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## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

My knowledge is based on what I read on wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt, but here's the deal...

Saint-Saëns was very fond of _Carnival_, and gave many private performances of the work to fellow musicians and friends, who all shared his enthusiasm for the suite. So it was not like Saint-Saëns thought the work was deprived of musical quality and wit, as he even specified that _Carnival_ should be published posthumously.

Saint-Saëns was just afraid that _Carnival_'s lighthearted nature would damage his image as a "serious composer", so his concern was with the public's perception and his reputation based on the good old prejudice against comedy and frivolity.

Well, as I see it, Saint-Saëns was a pompous coward...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> And Chopin's Fantaisie-Impromptu was deemed too similar to a piece already famous at the time. I think it was not the Moonlight sonata but something by Moscheles. It seems that posthumously the Chopin overshadowed whatever the other piece was...


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

lucashomem said:


> Saint-Saëns didn't want to publish The Carnival of the Animals while he was alive (despite liking it), so he was clearly misjudging how the public would receive the work.


Or perhaps he was well aware how popular the work would be with the public and did not wish to receive adulation for a 'light' work?


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Aurelian said:


> Bizet was so upset at the initial failure of _Carmen _that he died soon after its premiere.


The premiere of Carmen was a disaster. Bizet died of a heart attack shortly afterwards. These two facts may not be causally connected.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Tchaikovsky was notoriously harsh regarding his own work. He thought the 5th Symphony to be loathsome and insincere. The 1812 Overture worthless trash. Both are among his most beloved works.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Samuel Barber had such high hopes for his opera _Antony and Cleopatra_, but it bombed at its premiere and the production was gaudy and over-the-top in ridiculousness. This opera's failure led to a creative decline for the composer and alcoholism. He overcame this depression, but it sure did take its toll on his life.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Aurelian said:


> Beethoven was surprised that his 7th Symphony was more popular than the 8th, which he considered the better work.


He was probably even more surprised by the popularity of Wellington's Victory, which premiered in the same concert with the 7th.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Tchaikovsky was notoriously harsh regarding his own work. He thought the 5th Symphony to be loathsome and insincere. The 1812 Overture worthless trash. Both are among his most beloved works.


I was going to mention that.


Speaking of Tchaikovsky, he had a great affection for his music to The Snow Maiden. But in the 1874/75 season, The Snow Maiden was performed one more time and then withdrawn from the repertoire. He was even more vexed when Rimsky-Korsakov came out with his operatic take of Ostrovsky's play. A similar misfortune befell "The Maid of Orleans" eight years later.
Glazunov was upset after the premiere of his Oriental Rhapsody did not go well. It happens to be pretty well recorded.
Massenet was known to purposely miss out on premieres of his operas (having someone attend them instead and then giving him reports, impressions).
Rachmaninoff's First Symphony had a disastrous premiere (highly advanced piece, but played in a wrong, under-prepared environment). But nowadays, there are those who rate it higher than the Second.
Bruckner's Eighth Symphony: Bruckner was overjoyed when he completed the first version of this masterpiece. But he was devastated when his chief supporter, conductor Hermann Levi, could not make anything of it and returned the work rejected. We're familiar with his Third Symphony.
Berlioz was dismayed when La damnation de Faust was not well received.
Myaskovsky could not understand why Shostakovich's Fifth Symphony reached such a level of popularity in comparison with his Seventeenth, which he thought more highly.
Franz Lehar undervalued The Count of Luxembourg, even though it achieved quite a popularity in its own right.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't know if this counts but the normally astute Richard Strauss misjudged the mood of what seemed to be a whole nation with the ballet _Schlagobers_ (_Whipped Cream_). Premiered in Vienna 1924, many were not impressed by the 'cakes come alive' escapism of the work at a time when acute economic hardship and food shortages still plagued much of Austria. One review stated that 'Strauss' sweet gifts were met with a sour reaction'.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

The most famous quip regarding "Schlagobers" must have been: "For Richard, rather Wagner, for Strauss, rather Johann, for Schlagobers, rather Demel's (a famous Viennese Café)


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