# Which Era was their Contemporary Composers the Most Popular?



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm not sure anyone knows this but for those that have deep understanding of each Era and the way people thought about music of their time, which Era had the highest popularity level? Or the closest that the Contemporary Composers become mainstream. Wish I knew my Classical History.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Haydn. No question about it really that I am aware of.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

So the Classical Era then?


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Yes, but it is interesting to read that Mozart was considered a little too academic in some circles even up to 20/30 years after his death.

No composer has been so simultaneously respected by the music establishment and loved by the people in their lifetime as good old Haydn however. Handel achieved great fame and popularity in England, but Haydn was loved throughout the musical world. After that, with Beethoven and beyond, popularity and respect seem to diverge somewhat.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Haydn is a good answer. 

I think another way of looking at it is to ask when classical music had the most widespread popularity. In Haydn's time, very few people would have heard Haydn's music. The audience would've been much larger in the middle 1800s, in both absolute and relative terms. 

I'm not sure when the shrinking began... perhaps in the 1920s, with the rise of radio, jazz, pop music (blues, country, etc.), and musical theater (which of course you could count as classical). 

Hopefully someone more knowledgable can help out.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> I'm not sure anyone knows this but for those that have deep understanding of each Era and the way people thought about music of their time, which Era had the highest popularity level? Or the closest that the Contemporary Composers become mainstream. Wish I knew my Classical History.


Handel (one of the greatest composers who ever walked this planet) was quite popular as far as Baroque England was concerned. True, he faced very stiff competition and suffered failures in some of his theatre works, but well before the time of his senior years, he was already well established and respected as composer in English musical life. He was also the first composer and artist in general to have a monument errected of him while he was still alive, and the first to have a posthumous biography published. For state affairs, he was called upon to contribute on musical matters, such as resulting in the popular _Music for the Royal Fireworks_. His popularity never waned after his death. (His funeral service caused a three hour traffic jam on London Bridge). Annual performances of _The Messiah_ never ceased. I would suggest Handel and his music was the first composer to be part of his contemporary society's musical life on a very broad level; the aristocratic, the ecclesiastical and the general public - three critical groups of past eras who were always integral to musical development in many ways.

Joseph Haydn could be a respectable candidate, though only when he became more "public" during his later years, whereas Handel was always a public musical figure.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

science said:


> Hopefully someone more knowledgable can help out.


Please see my response above regarding Handel.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, it's nice to review that stuff but it isn't relevant to my post.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

science said:


> Well, it's nice to review that stuff but it isn't relevant to my post.


I sincerely apologise for being utterly irrelevant.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I sincerely apologise for being utterly irrelevant.


That's good. Why don't you apply your so greatly superior knowledge to telling us when classical musicians began to attract a smaller percentage of Western European audiences?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't know the answer to that. I'm so sorry to disappoint.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> *I don't know the answer to that.* I'm so sorry to disappoint.


Well, that is something I never thought I'd see. But rest assured, your superiority of taste, knowledge, and principle is not threatened by this tiny admission.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

From about 1730-1810 for most music. In Italy, contemporary operas by contemporary Italian composers were popular up until Nono's _Intolerance 1960._


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> From about 1730-1810 for most music. In Italy, contemporary operas by contemporary Italian composers were popular up until Nono's _Intolerance 1960._


Rossini was popular enough for the composer himself to retire from composing at a relatively young age. Opera was probably the biggest genre that gained popularity. It had to, if opera productions were not to be financial flops and given the prestige and competitiveness all opera composers faced.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Rossini was popular enough for the composer himself to retire from composing at a relatively young age. Opera was probably the biggest genre that gained popularity. It had to, if opera productions were not to be financial flops and given the prestige and competitiveness all opera composers faced.


Lately on TC I haven't seen you mention opera without some reference to the money put into its production.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Lately on TC I haven't seen you mention opera without some reference to the money put into its production.


It is a big deal. The same thing with "film." You've got to respect it as a massive collaboration and a business risk as well as an art.

I'm not sure how it works under communism, though.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

science said:


> It is a big deal. The same thing with "film." You've got to respect it as a massive collaboration and a business risk as well as an art.
> 
> I'm not sure how it works under communism, though.


Communism eh? Same amount of money is put into everything. Just need to make sure we have heaps to begin with.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Haydn and Mozart?










I thought the guy in the left is the most popular composer of 16th-19th centuries!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

That's a great photograph.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

It is indeed great. Now if only J Strauss II's music was as good....


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> It is indeed great. Now if only J Strauss II's music was as good....


Uhm, you mean as good as Ligeti's? Cousin friend, I think it may be!


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Handel (one of the greatest composers who ever walked this planet) was quite popular as far as Baroque England was concerned. True, he faced very stiff competition and suffered failures in some of his theatre works, but well before the time of his senior years, he was already well established and respected as composer in English musical life. He was also the first composer and artist in general to have a monument errected of him while he was still alive, and the first to have a posthumous biography published. For state affairs, he was called upon to contribute on musical matters, such as resulting in the popular _Music for the Royal Fireworks_. His popularity never waned after his death. (His funeral service caused a three hour traffic jam on London Bridge). Annual performances of _The Messiah_ never ceased. I would suggest Handel and his music was the first composer to be part of his contemporary society's musical life on a very broad level; the aristocrati c, theecclesiastical and the general public - three critical groups of past eras who were always integral to musical development in many ways.
> 
> Joseph Haydn could be a respectable candidate, though only when he became more "public" during his later years, whereas Handel was always a public musical figure.


That is interesting concerning Handel being the first genuinely 'popular' composer. However his fame was largely, by no means entirely, confined to England whereas Haydn was an international phenomenon. From the moment Esterhazy died, everyone wanted to 'get' him: he was already extremely well known, probably starting from the publication of his immensely popular and influential op. 20 quartets. Salomon got to him first, hence Haydn ended up going to London, but even before these latter years he was very famous, only _he_ didn't know it. We have the 'Paris' symphonies, the 'London' symphonies, even the 'Russian' and 'Prussian' quartets.

An exchange between Haydn and Mozart on the subject of Haydn leaving for London:



> Mozart especially took pains to say, "Papa!" as he usually called him, "you have had no training for the great world, and you speak too few languages."
> "Oh," replied Haydn, "my language is understood all over the world!"...


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Ramako said:


> Haydn. No question about it really that I am aware of.


Actually, Pleyel was more popular than Haydn toward the end of his career. No one was more popular than the composer Pleyel. These days, people are more interested in his pianos...


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Sir Arthur Sullivan was pretty wildly popular, I think.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

J.S.Bach (particularly as an organ virtuoso), before he was condemned to ostracism for composing 'old style music'.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Well, assuming we're strictly talking about composers in the western classical tradition, I'd probably think the Romantic period, including the crossover periods of the late Classical and the early Modernists, so probably around 1800 to around 1915ish give or take a few years. These composers were known to much larger groups of people than just the aristocracy and royalty, as was the case with the Baroque and Classical periods. Rich people are not the only ones who matter, and are not inherently the best judges of artistic greatness or merit.


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