# Bruno Walter’s Mahler recordings



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I just wanted to create a general purpose thread for discussing the recordings of Mahler’s symphonies and Lieder as conducted by Mahler’s great protégé, Bruno Walter. 

While Walter has only recorded a handful of Mahler’s symphonies (correct me if I’m wrong; I know of 1, 2, 4, 5, 9 and Das Lied von der Erde), he is widely renowned and beloved as an interpreter of Mahler. But why? In your eyes, what does he bring to the table? Do you think he is worthy of such high praise, or is his reputation colored by his personal connection to the composer?

Furthermore, what are your favorites among Walter’s Mahler recordings? Personally I have only yet heard his recording of the first symphony with the Columbia Symphony. It’s a brilliant performance. I think it’s the best performance of the third and fourth movements I’ve ever heard. The third movement never made so much sense, as a juxtaposition of funereal solemnity and vulgar “party music” atmosphere that characterizes the movement, it’s powerful and Ive never heard it done better. I plan on listening to his NYPO 2nd symphony tomorrow and I’ll write back what I think. I also recently picked up his DLvdE with Kathleen Ferrier and I’m excited to hear it. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I was deeply moved when I first heard the Walter/CSO recording of the Mahler 9th. It's emotionally agitated at times but also monumental and epic in certain ways as a culmination, at least at the time, of Mahler's life. I believe Walter brought a humanity, a personal and spiritual understanding to his performances based on personally knowing the composer, though I doubt their interpretations were exactly the same. Both explored spiritual teachings, such as Walter's interest in the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. But his interpretations weren't static and I believe they evolved as Walter himself matured and evolved and the richness of that culminated in his Columbia recording of the 9th. I was deeply touched and prefer it over any other recording I've heard because of its interpretation and Walter's spiritual link to the composer.

I consider Mahler a deeply rewarding composer and the symphonies do not sound too long if they're performed by the right hands. There's a bliss in Mahler that I've never heard in other composers, and despite the tragedies in his life, though he would sometimes experience private torment, I believe he was essentially a resilient man who looked for love and the positives in life.

He also had an interest in reincarnation. "We will all return," Mahler said. "Our life only has sense if it is shot through with this certainty and it is wholly unimportant whether in a later reincarnation we recall an earlier one. What counts is not the individual and his memory ... but only that great movement towards perfection, that purification which progresses with each reincarnation. That is why I have to live ethically, to spare my Self a part of the road when it returns."

I believe Walter held similar beliefs through his study of Steiner's teachings and that his performances were good because he essentially conducted with a sense of humanity and without the usual emphasis on the conductor's ego. I believe the musicians wanted to play for him out of respect and love and because they were driven by the conductor's temperament and ego: https://waldorfanswers.org/RudolfSteiner.htm


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

There was also this thread
https://www.talkclassical.com/62517-best-worst-recordings-walter.html?highlight=mahler+walter


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I would like to explore some Mahler recordings of Walter, and Klemperer but I'm going to have to stream them. I can't continue to keep buying classical CDs. I'm out of room. But I will take note of the suggestions here.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

My favourite Walter Mahler recordings are these two. Superb double disc.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Merl said:


> My favourite Walter Mahler recordings are these two. Superb double disc.
> 
> View attachment 125292


I believe what I have is a later pressing of the same music, on Sony as part of their Walter edition. It also includes the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen with Mildred Miller. I still have yet to listen to the 2nd symphony but my plan is to do so first thing in the morning. I decided I'm going to listen to all of Mahler's symphonies in order over the coming weeks.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I have the earlier, 39-disc Walter box, which has 1,2, 4, 5 and 9, plus DLvdE and some other vocal music.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The out of print box Bruno Walter Conducts Mahler
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mGEVPlsG5emXX9FYLxdigXxjyKsBOdKtU


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Merl said:


> My favourite Walter Mahler recordings are these two. Superb double disc.
> 
> View attachment 125292


Thanks! I just ordered a copy for 2 dollars. I was going to get the Sony 7 CD box but I read some bad reviews about the remastering.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Walter's Mahler recordings are real benchmarks for me..his NYPO #2, and ColSO #1 were some of my earliest record acquisitions...I listened to #2 every day for about a month, at least...must've driven my parents crazy!! tho they were great music lovers, and wonderful supporters of classical music...
My next acquisition was Sym #5, with Scherchen/VSOO - a pretty dreadful affair, that made little sense to me...how could the genius who composed #s 2 and 1 generate such a clunker as #5?? Then I got the Walter/NYPO #5 from 1947, and it all made sense...
His #4 from 1945 is quite remarkable - excellent sound, some terrific playing by the great NYPO woodwind section of that period...
I learned DLvdE from his '60 NYPO recording with Miller/Haefliger - again a great recording, featuring some fabulous orchestra work - the solo work of Harold Gomberg [obI] is esp notable, in mvts II and VI.
Walter's M9 from '61 with ColSO was another revelation to me....I had gotten the newly released Barbirolli/BPO recording, and it seemed ok...nothing too special, but alright...Then I picked up the Walter, and it was like hearing a new piece!! Walter really gets the flow, the current, throughout...this performance still remains amongst the top versions for me.
I heard the piano roll clip of Mahler himself playing Sym#5/I....I was struck by how similar Walter's version sounds to Mahler's...not exact, of course, but really quite close..


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

starthrower said:


> The out of print box Bruno Walter Conducts Mahler
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mGEVPlsG5emXX9FYLxdigXxjyKsBOdKtU


That's the one with the crap sound.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Merl said:


> My favourite Walter Mahler recordings are these two. Superb double disc.
> 
> View attachment 125292


This is one of the better-sounding versions. There's also a single disc version of the 2nd that was issued as part of an Original Jacket set, which also sounds fine.

BTW, Sony is issuing a complete Bruno Walter box next month. I've got a copy pre-ordered.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

wkasimer said:


> That's the one with the crap sound.


I know, that's why I'm listening to it on YT. Is there any confirmation that the sound on the big box is better?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

starthrower said:


> I know, that's why I'm listening to it on YT. Is there any confirmation that the sound on the big box is better?


You mean the upcoming complete Walter edition? No idea, since it hasn't been released. But Sony/BMG has generally been more responsible on those big doorstop boxes, e.g. Szell.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I figured since you pre- ordered a copy you had a reason to believe the sound is improved. I'm going to stick to some of the smaller boxes since I'll never listen to a 70 + CD box.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The only big box set I have ordered is the Celibidache Munich Years set.
Because I like Celi and the selections as well.
The sound is mostly good as well.

I am very tempted by the Walter set.
I would think/hope they used the sound from the Bruno Walter, The Edition set, since I found the sound on those to be excellent.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Itullian said:


> The only big box set I have ordered is the Celibidache Munich Years set.
> Because I like Celi and the selections as well.
> The sound is mostly good as well.
> 
> ...


I am not sure how the big labels make their big boxes. I'm assuming they don't go in and come up with a fresh remaster for everything, as that would take an eternity...? What are the sales figures like for these boxes, I wonder. How many people are buying these? I think that a well-marketed and well-put-together big box from a big-name conductor is a pretty much guaranteed sell for a certain demographic of hardcore classical collectors at least. I wouldn't think they need to sell all that many to recoup...

Back to Walter's Mahler, I listened to his recording of the second symphony in the morning. It was phenomenal. Somehow, I found it more "soft", and smooth than Klemperer's recording, less dramatic, a little more laid back, fewer hard edges. In fact, he played it like it was Beethoven's 9th, like it was an absolute staple of the repertoire that everyone knows and loves, which of course was not the reality when he recorded this in 1958. I wish I could speak in more specific terminology, but he really made it sound like a flawless masterpiece. It seemed to be over in 30 minutes, it all went by so fast.

If I may offer one criticism: I'm not sure if I agree with the way he presented the finale. I think it was almost too perfect, almost like a piece of worship music. Straight up, Christian resurrection. It was absolutely beautiful, of course, but I question whether this was Mahler's intent. In Bernstein's recording, for example, with the same orchestra from a few years later, the finale sounds something more like a holy nuclear apocalypse. Still a big moment of redemption, for sure, but in a totally different way. I think what Mahler intended would have been somewhere in the middle of the two approaches...? Who knows. Hard to tell. This is all first impression stuff, I'm still processing my thoughts!

Has anyone else heard this recording recently? I was extremely impressed! Tomorrow I will continue my quest of listening to all the Mahler symphonies in order with the 3rd. Walter never conducted this one, so I'll be listening to the Bernstein/NYPO on Sony.


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