# The I'm Addicted to Prokofiev Thread



## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

This is a discussion about possibly the most performed composer of the 20th century, though forever overshadowed by the "influence" of Stravinsky and Schoenberg, and the "genius" of Shostakovich and Bartok. 

Today, very few people remember Prokofiev the innovator, from his establishment of neoclassicism in the 1st, to the wild modernism of the 2nd and 3rd to the clinging romantic fairyland of the 7th. Prokofiev, like Sibelius, had a truly individual voice and gift for melody that is immediately recognizable. 

Though very few people remember it, we must remember that Prokofiev, even more than Shostakovich, was forced into the Soviet regime. Stalin overshadowed him day and night, and had Serge ever become free of this clutch, there is no doubt he would have done much more. Death would not even allow that, and while Stalin received 115 pages over his death, Serge received a sentence. 

And I would say that Prokofiev is still doomed to this fate. He is clumped together with Shostakovich, who I can hardly mention in the same sentence. And does the music of Schoenberg really mean more than the oeuvre of Prokofiev, still very popular even though 90% of his output remains in the shadows?

Here are my top 15 Prokofiev compositions (first 10 are all #1 for me): 

1. Symphony No. 2 
2. Violin Concerto No. 1 (2 not far behind) 
3. War Sonatas (No. 5, 6, 7) 4 would be my next favorite
4. Piano Concerto No. 3 
5. Symphony No. 6 
6. Symphony No. 5 
7. Chout 
8. Alexander Nevsky 
9. Violin Sonata No. 1 
10. Piano Concerto No. 2 
11. Sonata for 2 Violins 
12. Symphony No. 7 
13. Le Pas d'acier
14. Romeo and Juliet 
15. Ivan the Terrible (and I could go on and on...)

I'm still trying to swallow opera. The Gambler, War and Peace, The Fiery Angel, Semyon Kotko, and Love for 3 oranges are supposed to be great. A few works are sadly hard to find (Seven, they are seven, etc.).

I'm not an expert, just an addict, so let's discuss, civilly.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I really do like Prokofiev a lot!

My favorite work by him is Alexander Nevsky. I can hear it time and time again without ever tiring. I saw the local San Diego Symphony perform it live a while back and it was one of the best concerts of my life.

Symphonies 2 and 3 probably come next. These are probably not his best works in the genre of the symphony (that probably goes to his 5th) but the 2nd and 3rd are very exciting on a viceral level.

Le Pas d'Acier is also a very interesting work. It contains a lot of the "steel age" sound of the 2nd and 3rd symphonies.

Romeo and Juliet is a fantastic ballet score that I have always adored.

And while I am ashamed to admit it, I like the the Scythian Suite. Though a rip off of Le Sacre (commisioned by Diagilev), it is still very "Prokofiev," enough to be original in a very unoriginal way, if that makes any sense.

Lieutenant Kijé is excellent light music.

I have never heard any of Prokofiev's violin concerti, which is odd to me now that I think of it. I should get my hands on a copy. I do have a recording of each of his piano concerti, though I am not as enthusiastic about them as others. I think I like the 3rd the best of all of them, but I am not gaga over it in general.

Long story short, a very good, dare I say great composer. I also read his memoirs "Prokofiev on Prokofiev" which gave fascinating insight into the up-bringing of a child prodigy in Russia during the latter part of the 19th century and early part of the 20th.


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## Yosser (May 29, 2009)

airad2 said:


> And I would say that Prokofiev is still doomed to this fate. He is clumped together with Shostakovich, who I can hardly mention in the same sentence.
> 
> I'm not an expert, just an addict, so let's discuss, civilly.


Well the expert thing is self evident. I can only write for myself, but I cannot see your vision of Prokofiev as in some sense undervalued. Actually, I think this is quite ridiculous. Sergei and Dimitri are not combatants. They both wrote great music (and some stuff that was not so great.) Both are in the top 5 on almost anyone's list of 20th century composers.

Why do you think otherwise?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Of course I love Prokofiev. Brilliant composer. Downright scary the music he's able to pull from his imagination.

I own a few Prokofiev recordings 

- 7 Symphonies; Lieutenant Kije (4-CD set)
Orch: Berlin Philharmonic
Cond: Seiji Ozawa
Label: DG

- Romeo and Juliet (2-CD set)
Orch: Cleveland Orchestra
Cond: Lorin Maazel
Label: Decca

- Cinderella, Glazunov: The Seasons (2-CD set)
Orch: Cleveland Orchestra, Royal Philharmonic
Cond: Vladimir Ashkenazy
Label: Decca

-Piano Concertos
Orch: London Symphony
Cond: V. Ashkenazy
Label: Decca

-Symphony Nos. 1 & 5
Orch: Atlana Symphony
Cond; Yoel Levi
Label: Telarc

-Complete Symphonies (5-CD set)
Orch: Gürzenich-Orchester Köln
Cond: Dmitrij Kitajenko
Label: Phoenix Edition

-The Complete Symphonies (4-CD set)
Orch: Scottish National Orchestra
Cond: Neeme Jarvi
Label: Chandos

-The Symphonies (4-CD set)
Orch: London Symphony
Cond: Valery Gergiev
Label: Philips

-Romeo & Juliet (excerpts); Symphony No. 1; etc.
Orch: Royal Philharmonic
Cond; Yuri Simonov
Label; Royal Philharmonic Masterwork

-Piano Concertos 1-5 (2-CD set)
Orch: Frankfurt Radio Symphony
Cond; Vladimir Krainev
Label: Apex

-Alexander Nevsky; Scythian Suite
Orch: Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
Cond; Kurt Masur
Label: Apex

-Romeo & Juliet; The Love For Three Oranges
Orch: Toronto Symphony
Cond; Jukka-Pekka Saraste
Label: Apex

-Rostropovoich Conducts Prokofiev (4-CD set)
Orch: Orchestre National de France
Cond: Mstislav Rostropovich
Label: Warner Classics

-Sympbony Nos. 1 & 5; Lieutenant Kije
Orch: St. Petersburg Philharmonic
Cond; Yuri Temirkanov
Label: RCA

-Symphony No. 5; Scythian Suite
Orch: City of Birmingham Symphony
Cond; Sir Simon Rattle
Label: EMI

-Alexander Nevsky; Lietenant Kije; The Stone Flower; The Love For Three Oranges; etc. (2-CD set)
Orch: Montreal Symphony
Cond; Charles Dutoit
Label: Decca

-Symphony No. 5
Orch: Leningrad Philharmonic
Cond; Mariss Jansons
Label: Chandos

-Piano Concertos (2-CD set)
Orch: Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
Cond: Kurt Masur
Label: EMI

-Romeo & Julet (2-CD set)
Orch: Boston Symphony
Cond: Seiji Ozawa
Label: DG

-Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 3; Bartok: Piano Concerto No. 3
Orch: Montreal Symphony
Cond: Charles Dutoit
Label: EMI

-Alexander Nevsky; Scythian Suite; Lieutenant Kije
Orch: Chicago Symphony
Cond: Claudio Abbado
Label: DG

-Alexander Nevsky
Orch: St. Petersburg Philharmonic
Cond: Yuri Temirkanov
Label: RCA


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

I love the Symphonies, the Piano and Violin Concertos, the Sonata for 2 Violins, Alexander Nevsky and Love for Three Oranges..

How about the Toccata for piano?? It's quite something:





I remember the first time I heard that, I was reading or something, and my dad usually plays the piano every night.. Well, that night I heard him absolutely pounding away at the piano, so I went to look and I found him there playing this with his face all red!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

andruini said:


> I love the Symphonies, the Piano and Violin Concertos, the Sonata for 2 Violins, Alexander Nevsky and Love for Three Oranges..
> 
> How about the Toccata for piano?? It's quite something:
> 
> ...


Is your Dad a classical pianist by hobby?


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

He studied professionally, and played with various chamber ensembles, but now it's just his hobby, yes..


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

andruini said:


> He studied professionally, and played with various chamber ensembles, but now it's just his hobby, yes..


Does he ever play you any Debussy or Ravel? If yes, then you should invite me over.


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> Does he ever play you any Debussy or Ravel? If yes, then you should invite me over.


He does play Debussy, he likes him a lot, but I don't hear him play Ravel too often.. I don't think he has much of his music.. He's more of a Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin kind of guy..


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

andruini said:


> He does play Debussy, he likes him a lot, but I don't hear him play Ravel too often.. I don't think he has much of his music.. He's more of a Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin kind of guy..


Tell your Dad to learn "Le Tombeau de Couperin" and "Gaspard de la nuit." When He does I want a front row concert!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

For me, there are few composers who I don't get bored with after listening to a handful of their works. Prokofiev is one of these. He definitely had many stylistic periods, and many of his works sound different from eachother - but of course, he had his own unique style. & his music can be so gripping & poignant, like that moment when the soprano sings her solo in _Alexander Nevsky_. I can think of no other music that talks to the futility of war quite like that...

& indeed, it was a great pity that he died within 24 hours of that monster Stalin. It would have been interesting if Prokofiev were to live another decade or two under the comparatively more relaxed regimes that followed...


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Yosser said:


> Well the expert thing is self evident. I can only write for myself, but I cannot see your vision of Prokofiev as in some sense undervalued. Actually, I think this is quite ridiculous. Sergei and Dimitri are not combatants. They both wrote great music (and some stuff that was not so great.) Both are in the top 5 on almost anyone's list of 20th century composers.
> 
> Why do you think otherwise?


I don't have time to expertise in any field of music, but I do know what I like. Shostakovich's output doesn't thrill me, he has many mediocre works. His symphonies have less color and are severely overrated, his concerti hardly stand up to Prokofiev's, his operas, ballets, solo works, and film music, too. Perhaps his string quartets are greater but with the exception of the 8th, I'd hardly say that. Prokofiev barely wrote anything mediocre, his worst compositions are actually not bad. If you can name 10, go ahead, I'm listening.

Dmitri is obviously more popular not only with the media, but with the general public. It slightly bothers me: why is it that Prokofiev's music is not played all of last year at Davies in SF while Shostakovich's works are repeated over and over again? Is it fair? I think not.

Yes, I stated I'm not an expert, because I'm not. Because I am honest. Why the ad hom? I've protected my stance above because I love Prokofiev's music. Does that bother you at all?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

airad2 said:


> It slightly bothers me: why is it that Prokofiev's music is not played all of last year at Davies in SF while Shostakovich's works are repeated over and over again? Is it fair? I think not.


Why isn't George Frederick McKay played more? Why isn't Balakirev played more? Why isn't Gliere played more? Anyway you get the idea. Prokofiev has been one of the most recorded composers of the last 50 years. He may not be performed as much as he used to be, but I'll assure you that you'll find a Prokofiev recording a lot faster and sooner than you'll find one of Edward MacDowell.

But make no mistake about it Prokofiev wrote some duds like all composers have. A good example is his "Symphony No. 1." I think this piece of music is total dud. Whatever Prokofiev's intentions were with this symphony I find it musically uninteresting, because this wasn't his style of writing at all, then again, his symphonies aren't necessarily his strong points anyway.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

andruini said:


> How about the Toccata for piano?? It's quite something:


Well played by Martha Argerich it is really something. You should hear the 6th and 7th piano sonatas too. They are even crazier.



Tapkaara said:


> Symphonies 2 and 3 probably come next. These are probably not his best works in the genre of the symphony (that probably goes to his 5th) but the 2nd and 3rd are very exciting on a viceral level.
> 
> And while I am ashamed to admit it, I like the the Scythian Suite. Though a rip off of Le Sacre (commisioned by Diagilev), it is still very "Prokofiev," enough to be original in a very unoriginal way, if that makes any sense.
> 
> I have never heard any of Prokofiev's violin concerti, which is odd to me now that I think of it. I should get my hands on a copy. I do have a recording of each of his piano concerti, though I am not as enthusiastic about them as others. I think I like the 3rd the best of all of them, but I am not gaga over it in general.


The 2nd is very complex. Though the 1st movement might be a little bit all over, probably Prok at his most wild, the 2nd mov. is really great. One of my favorite theme and variations. The whole symphony has an incredible amount of counterpoint.

The 3rd symphony is slightly overcharged but still great, in my opinion. I've heard that after you listen to the Fiery Angel, your love for it diminishes. Not just similar ideas, actually extracted and borrowed.

Don't be ashamed about the Scythian.  It's ok to be honest. I don't know why it's taken as such a target for weakness nowadays. 

And also you've got to hear the VCs, the 1st is one of my favorite VCs ever, easy to listen to, very beautiful, incredibly moving 3rd movement.

And Mirror Image, I agree that classical symphony is his worst of the 7, but I'd hardly call it mediocre. It was revolutionary, just like Seven, the 1st VC, etc. Yes, symphonies may not be his strong point, but they are still very very strong, however you look at it. I'm not overlooking the fact that his compositions are frequently played (one of the most frequently played in the 20th century, as I stated earlier) but I don't want people to overlook his contributions to 20th century music, his importance in establishing unique styles, his struggles, and overall, to recognize he doesn't fall under the shadow of two people named Stravinsky and Shostakovich.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> Tell your Dad to learn "Le Tombeau de Couperin" and "Gaspard de la nuit." When He does I want a front row concert!


"Gaspard de la nuit" is a ridiculously difficult piece to learn. I doubt any amateur pianist would bother to waste time studying it.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

bdelykleon said:


> "Gaspard de la nuit" is a ridiculously difficult piece to learn. I doubt any amateur pianist would bother to waste time studying it.


 Yeah, I think with some hard work and dedication his Dad could do it, after all, he said he had classical training and has played in chamber ensembles. I'm not a pianist, but I can understand why it would be difficult to play.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

bdelykleon said:


> "Gaspard de la nuit" is a ridiculously difficult piece to learn. I doubt any amateur pianist would bother to waste time studying it.


I know a few amateurs who can play ondine, scarbo I'm not so sure. It's one of the hardest in the standard repertoire.

I'm jealous anyways, though I'm fairly comfortable with the titans of Bach, Schumann, and prokofiev, I can' t quite get Ravel to my fingertips. I struggle even with pieces like Miroirs, Sonatine, and Jeux d'eau.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

airad2 said:


> I know a few amateurs who can play ondine, scarbo I'm not so sure. It's one of the hardest in the standard repertoire.
> 
> I'm jealous anyways, though I'm fairly comfortable with the titans of Bach, Schumann, and prokofiev, I can' t quite get Ravel to my fingertips. I struggle even with pieces like Miroirs, Sonatine, and Jeux d'eau.


How about Debussy?

It's kind of crazy to think that Ravel wrote such difficult music for the piano. Not to derail this thread any further, but what's particularly difficult about Ravel's piano music? I play a little piano, but I would like some specifics if you could.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I'd like to add my appreciation for Prokofiev, probably my 2nd favourite composer. 

During my university years in the 80s, I shunned the (mostly pretty awful) music of the times (Simple Minds, U2, FGTH, etc) and instead immersed myself in classical. I couldn't afford much, but had the full score for Romeo & Juliet on double-cassette and it was on virtually constantly through my studies. Thanks Sergei!

Notable works that I couldn't do without:
- Alexander Nevsky
- Love for the 3 Oranges
- The Tale of the Stone Flower (full score)
- Scythian Suite
- Chout (the Buffoon)
- Cinderella
- Le Pas d'Acier 
- Scythian Suite
- Sinfonietta
- Lieutenant Kijé
- Seven, they are Seven (finally got hold of a copy of this)
- Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution
- Romeo & Juliet (full score)

I'm slightly less enthusiastic about his symphonies but still appreciate having them, but they don't get played as often as the above.

On my wish list 
- Ivan the Terrible
- Zdravitsa
- The Fiery Angel
- The Gambler


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I may not be addicted to the man himself, but I defintely am addicted to Romeo And Juliet.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

bassClef said:


> - Seven, they are Seven (finally got hold of a copy of this)


Seven, they are Seven, is that the Rozhdestvensky version? I've been looking for this piece ever since I became a Prokofiev fan!!!! I'm dying for a copy of it if you could be kind of enough to tell me where to get it.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

airad2 said:


> Seven, they are Seven, is that the Rozhdestvensky version? I've been looking for this piece ever since I became a Prokofiev fan!!!! I'm dying for a copy of it if you could be kind of enough to tell me where to get it.


That's the one. No CD is in print with this piece on any more, but I found a guy who put a copy on rapidshare for me - I'll see if it's still there. Will PM you if so.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Ill warn you Airad, that what bassclef proposed is illegal in most countries, its your choice (I would do it).


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm not sure of the technical legality, but since this particular piece isn't available commercially anywhere I don't think even Sergei would mind his lesser known music reaching a slightly wider appreciative audience this way (since this seems to be the only way). I'll happily purchase it if and when it becomes available, and given his enthusiasm for prokofiev's works the same can probably be said for airad2.


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## David Mayer (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only Prokofiev nut here. I've collected all of his works except for the juvenilia.

As for my favorites:

1. Toccata
2. October Cantata
3. The Fiery Angel
4. Symphony No. 2
5. Piano Concerto No. 2
6. War Sonatas (Piano Sonatas 6,7,8)
7. Alexander Nevsky
8. Scythian Suite
9. Piano Concerto No. 1
10. Romeo and Juliet

Although I didn't intend for it to be this way, most of my list comprises "hard-edged" Prokofiev. I really do love his softer, more accessibly lyrical works. "The Prodigal Son" and "Tale of the Stone Flower" are lovely, underestimated works.


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## danae (Jan 7, 2009)

Funny you mentioned Prokofiev. He is the one that dragged me into classical. I mean, I was listening to a lot of Bach, Telemann, Mozart, Chopin, Brahms etc... but Prokofiev was .... my refuge in difficult times. 
As a rebelious teenager, I used to skip class not to go out with friends but to sit alone in the park for hours listening to his Sinfonia concertante or the piano sonatas and concertos.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

No matter what y'all say, I still think Shostakovich's music has more content and emotional charge to it. Although I do like Prokofiev a lot. 

My favourites are:
Piano Concertos (all except the Third are mind-blowing)
Violin Concerto No.1
Violin Sonata No.2 (composed as Flute Sonata)
Lieutenant Kijé
Romeo & Juliet


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## opus 131 (Jul 15, 2009)

*I wish I could share your enthusiasm*

When people whom I respect extol Prokofiev, I feel like a colorblind person hearing someone ecstatically describing the beautiful hues in a sunset. He is without question my least favorite great composer. His orchestration always seems needlessly eccentric, like an annoying child trying to impress. His melodies are almost invariably chained to a four bar by four bar phrase pattern, which starts to pall. Because they are so regular and symmetrical, the music never flows for me, each little idea has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and then something new starts.
But for me, the most dreary aspect of his music is the inept part writing. Maybe it is my perspective; I am a professional violist; my career lives in the inner voices. Recently, I played the Mendelssohn "Italian" Symphony and Prokofiev's Left Hand Piano Concerto on the same program. Every note of the Mendelssohn viola part flowed beautifully--I often play the Alberti bassline in the third movement as an etude for my own pleasure, it is so gracious and pleasing to hear and play. The Prokofiev viola part, all too typically for him, is a total hack job. No coherence, no line, no consideration of how the instrument lies. He decides on a rhythm and then seems to arbitrarily assign whatever notes in the chord he needs to fill at the moment. I always dread seeing Prokofiev on an upcoming program.
The one work of his that I enjoy are the "Fugitive Visions" piano miniatures, where his inability to string together a largescale structure is not an issue.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

opus 131 said:


> The Prokofiev viola part, all too typically for him, is a total hack job. No coherence, no line, no consideration of how the instrument lies. He decides on a rhythm and then seems to arbitrarily assign whatever notes in the chord he needs to fill at the moment. I always dread seeing Prokofiev on an upcoming program.


Well I'd say very few composers actually take the viola seriously, which is of course a pity. But composers think more of the work itself than about the issues performers will have playing it. So I guess a prudent player ought to do the job at their best, and try to find positive qualities in the demanding/seemingly ungratifying part. Besides, Mendelssohn is not Prokofiev and vice versa, you're definitely aware of that.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

opus 131 said:


> When people whom I respect extol Prokofiev, I feel like a colorblind person hearing someone ecstatically describing the beautiful hues in a sunset. He is without question my least favorite great composer. His orchestration always seems needlessly eccentric, like an annoying child trying to impress. His melodies are almost invariably chained to a four bar by four bar phrase pattern, which starts to pall. Because they are so regular and symmetrical, the music never flows for me, each little idea has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and then something new starts.
> But for me, the most dreary aspect of his music is the inept part writing. Maybe it is my perspective; I am a professional violist; my career lives in the inner voices. Recently, I played the Mendelssohn "Italian" Symphony and Prokofiev's Left Hand Piano Concerto on the same program. Every note of the Mendelssohn viola part flowed beautifully--I often play the Alberti bassline in the third movement as an etude for my own pleasure, it is so gracious and pleasing to hear and play. The Prokofiev viola part, all too typically for him, is a total hack job. No coherence, no line, no consideration of how the instrument lies. He decides on a rhythm and then seems to arbitrarily assign whatever notes in the chord he needs to fill at the moment. I always dread seeing Prokofiev on an upcoming program.
> The one work of his that I enjoy are the "Fugitive Visions" piano miniatures, where his inability to string together a largescale structure is not an issue.


I happily disagree with your sentiments regarding the magnificent Prokofiev.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Me too, perhaps his works are aimed more at pleasing the listeners than the viola players - as it should be.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

bassClef said:


> Me too, perhaps his works are aimed more at pleasing the listeners than the viola players - as it should be.


Forget the viola players! I enjoy his music and that's all that matters to me.


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