# Haydn or Mozart: Piano Sonatas



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I choose Mozart. I find them more interesting to my ears, but Brendel's set of Haydn's are nice imo.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


>


Great work and great set of the complete works of Mozart.


----------



## Michael122 (Sep 16, 2021)

Mozart, of course.


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Until I heard Bezuidenhout's performances of Mozart's Sonatas, I would have chosen Haydn in a heartbeat. Now I have to pause before choosing Haydn.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I am sorry but both :angel:


----------



## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I am (not) sorry but neither. :devil:


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Both wrote wonderful piano sonatas. Haydn's no. 58 is my favorite, so I'll have to choose him.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Highwayman said:


> I am (not) sorry but neither. :devil:


:lol: Hahahaha!


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

vtpoet said:


> Until I heard Bezuidenhout's performances of Mozart's Sonatas, I would have chosen Haydn in a heartbeat. Now I have to pause before choosing Haydn.


He's really good, thanks for that share!


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Except for opera, I always prefer Haydn to Mozart.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Haydn's, performed by Walter Olbertz


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

SanAntone said:


> Except for opera, I always prefer Haydn to Mozart.


Concertos?

To the question: I can do without both sets of piano sonatas tbh. Not my favourite genre to start with, and if I listen to piano sonatas it's mostly from Beethoven to mid 20th century.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> Concertos?
> 
> To the question: I can do without both sets of piano sonatas tbh. Not my favourite genre to start with, and if I listen to piano sonatas it's mostly from Beethoven to mid 20th century.


Mozart's concertos would be preferable over Haydn's, but I hardly listen to that repertory from the Classical period.


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Haydn showed more flexibility of form in his sonatas and there's a refreshing spontaneity that I find sometimes lacking in Mozart's sonatas, specially in the rather stiff early ones.
So it's Haydn for me. It's always a joy to play his piano music.


----------



## CopistaSignorGomez (Dec 9, 2021)

Well, you can have both






listen to the adagio and then...


----------



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I just listened to the brilliant classics K332/333/457 with Wurtz playing. Are there really Haydn sonatas as good as these?


----------



## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Mozart but only because I'm more familiar with them both from a listening and playing perspective. I only ever tackled one Haydn sonata as a pianist (Hob. XVI/37) and while it was a well written piece I kept thinking of the early Beethoven oeuvre as I was learning it. Mozart doesn't remind me of LvB in any way at all.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

RobertJTh said:


> Haydn showed more flexibility of form in his sonatas and there's a refreshing spontaneity that I find sometimes lacking in Mozart's sonatas, specially in the rather stiff early ones.


I think of the notion that Haydn "handles form better" or whatnot stems from the usual hype around the Viennese-style "motivic development" (But I do think certain banality was also written in the name of the style, ie. prolonged repetitions of sequences in different scale degrees with uninteresting harmonies, or inversions of material across voices (parts) with varying dynamics). But again, if you look deeper, it's apparent Mozart was the one who really "inspired".


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

hammeredklavier said:


> I think of the notion that Haydn "handles form better" or whatnot stems from the usual hype around the Viennese-style "motivic development"


To be fair, he didn't write that Haydn "handles form better" but that Haydn "showed more flexibility in form"; and I would agree with that. And to be fair to Mozart, Mozart wrote most of his sonatas in a couple extended blocks (Munich, Mannheim and Vienna/Salzburg) and complained to his father that everyone expected him to write in the style of JC Bach. His father answered that if they wanted him to write like JC Bach, then he should do it well. Haydn appears to have been more influenced by CPE Bach and I think it shows in his sonatas.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

vtpoet said:


> to be fair to Mozart, Mozart wrote most of his sonatas in a couple extended blocks (Munich, Mannheim and Vienna/Salzburg) and complained to his father that everyone expected him to write in the style of JC Bach. His father answered that if they wanted him to write like JC Bach, then he should do it well.


I don't find any material corroborating your claim anywhere in the source you cite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sonatas_by_Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart).



> Haydn appears to have been more influenced by CPE Bach and I think it shows in his sonatas.


How? And I think you're exaggerating C.P.E. Bach's merits again. He's not even the answer to "everything good" in the late 18th century. 






> To be fair, he didn't write that Haydn "handles form better" but that Haydn "showed more flexibility in form";


Whatever. It's all a subjective view, unless you're talking about factual things with concrete examples.



hammeredklavier said:


> Think of the upward steps and download leaps this way:
> match the parts in blue in the Wagner with the parts in blue in the Mozart,
> and the parts in red in the Wagner with the parts in red in the Mozart.
> There are some differences in rhythm and scale degrees, but the gestural similarities are undeniable.
> ...





hammeredklavier said:


> I'm talking about stuff like this:
> http://musicstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Popovic_JIMS_0932106.pdf#page=9
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

hammeredklavier said:


> I don't find any material corroborating your claim anywhere in the source you cite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sonatas_by_Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart).
> 
> The first block, largely in 1774 and all in Munich:
> 
> ...


----------

