# what happens to this group?



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I noticed (maybe I am wrong) that people are participating less...So do I. When I was trying to get fun :devil: I had warnings...always from the same guy...I am not afraid though...I feel unguilty...of any charges...I am a nice guy and very friendly. 

Martin


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

What's up, Martin!

_la vida es una comedia_


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I think the number of interesting threads has dwindled considerably lately, though the community is what we make it, so I suppose I'm part of the problem!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

or the lack of you is part of the problem.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> or the lack of you is part of the problem.


Yes, that's much more likely!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> or the lack of you is part of the problem.


but if he loses any more bits there won't be enough left to be annoying :devil:


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

We've exhausted all the topics. There's nothing more to say.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> We've exhausted all the topics. There's nothing more to say.


Yeah, until next week when someone new will bring up that dude that claims Mozart didn't write any of his works or we'll be comparing Ligeti to Schnittke or sharing our favorite way to eat an Oreo cookie!


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

kv466 said:


> Yeah, until next week when someone new will bring up that dude that claims Mozart didn't write any of his works or we'll be comparing Ligeti to Schnittke or sharing our favorite way to eat an Oreo cookie!


Yeah but we'll just link him an old topic to read.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

This thread isn't actually in the past tense.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I say we'll all die someday


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Well most of us old-timers (as in length of membership rather than age) are still around & we just seem to be going through a quiet spell.

I'm not spending as much time on the internet as a whole as I just felt I needed a break. And have been catching up with some reading.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

That's where you're all wrong. It is impossible to exhaust all the topics simply because the Laws of Incompleteness forbid such nonsense.

I prove it. I prove it with most powerful Logik:

*I.* If a topic is exhausted (i.e. every discussion about it is completely complete) then it is inconsistent. So, we'll have to go back to our discussions of the topic until we've made sure it is consistently consistent. However...

*II.* If a topic is consistently consistent (i.e. no contradications have been made) then it is incomplete. So, we'll have to go back to our discussions until we've made sure it is completely complete. However, if it is completely complete...

And so on.

*Q.E.D.*


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I think the number of interesting threads has dwindled considerably lately, though the community is what we make it, so I suppose I'm part of the problem!


I have had the feeling of fewer interesting threads as well, but there seemed to be more posts than before. I think you're exactly correct that we make our community or forum. If others post threads that do not interest me, I can easily skip them. It's harder to look through the unread new posts and not see something of interest.

Thus, it is incumbent on those of us who seek more intellectual stimulation to start threads that will fascinate, rile up, challenge, and otherwise grab our attention.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I feel that we have been dissuaded from doing such, mmbls.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> We've exhausted all the topics. There's nothing more to say.


Yes, but new people bring back all the old subjects and the merry-go-round goes on.
Apart from that it is boring and so are the children


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> I have had the feeling of fewer interesting threads as well, but there seemed to be more posts than before. I think you're exactly correct that we make our community or forum. If others post threads that do not interest me, I can easily skip them. It's harder to look through the unread new posts and not see something of interest.
> 
> Thus, it is incumbent on those of us who seek more intellectual stimulation to start threads that will fascinate, rile up, challenge, and otherwise grab our attention.


Yes,and get a warning.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

There have been many fascinating threads, both music and non-music related, which lasted a very long time before being closed and some have continued without being closed. I don't think it's hard to participate without getting a warning or receiving points. If a thread is truly interesting than the posts should reflect that and focus on the subject matter rather than other posters. The rules are clear, and people can vigorously debate issues without getting in trouble. Or at least it should not be difficult. The easy part is that one can always read one's post after writing it and decide whether it will get you in trouble. If so, delete it. 

Religion, politics, and modern music have all been discussed in great depth in many posts without getting those posters in trouble. Obviously, some people have participated and drawn the wrath of the mods, but some discussions have lasted for weeks and covered a range of intriguing topics without causing a word from the moderators. 

Well, that's my view. I wish people would continue to throw themselves into debates but realize that their opponent is another idea and not another person.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

mmsbls said:


> The rules are clear


I would contest that, as well as the professed equal enforcement, but I may be rapidly silenced.

I'm all for sticking my head into new, blood-boiling arguments, just start one and I'm there!


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

But again, some of the initiators seem to be gone or banned (Science, starthrower etc.). 
And have you noticed the join date of most of the active members? Some are from 2009 or earlier, but most of the members are active since 2011.
Just makes me wonder if TC experiences certain generations as well.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

The initiators are gone for that reason though. Nobody else wants to step up only to have their threads shut down or possibly having to be banned. Perhaps then you should endorse the groups section and move discussions into them if you want said stimulation.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Let's face it - the groups are never going to be useful or popular because we're all too lazy to click the extra button to check them.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Its a combination of many things which have been mentioned.

Like someone pointed out, the number of interesting topics is down but the number of posts isnt. A lot of posts are simply witty or silly remarks, and these are often rewarded by masses of people liking them. Most of the threads now created arent serious and are a little silly, some threads that begin with a serious question or topic, promptly go off-topic, sometimes with the consent or participation of the OP.

I dont necessarily believe that this is all due to the behaviour of the newer members, but there is certainly a kind of generational gap forming.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2012)

The thing is when I joined all posters were very knowledgeable about music and the world in general but in the last couple of years or so we seem to have had an influx of young aggressive idiots that delight in being stupid and generally upsetting a lot of posters. so we spend less time here and go to other forums where the general ambient is friendly and visit here at odd times to see if things are improving ???? some do not return, the perpetrators will know who they are so I will not name them. (end of rant)


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I think we can stray a little too often into territory that is more worthy of a dumb social networking site, but I wouldn't say the perpetrators are "young aggressive idiots that delight in being stupid" any more than I'd say... EDIT: removed in case I'm banished.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Polednice said:


> ... any more than I'd say that we have some extremely grumpy elderly folk who delight in superiority complexes while writing drivel that they think is enlightened - well, maybe I _would_ say that.


Oy - 'bout time you young whipper-snappers learned how to respect your elders & betters


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

No, sospie, get rid of that quote! I'm actually worried I'll be banned because I have 9 points and they punish anything these days.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> No, sospie, get rid of that quote! I'm actually worried I'll be banned because I have 9 points and they punish anything these days.


Really? Dodie, Coag, Cnote, and iforgotmypassword, violadude, philip and I when we partake(the young idiots, aka, the broheme's) are breaking all kinds of rules and regulations on a daily basis. I can't believe that you are in danger of getting banned for other things.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

clavichorder said:


> Really? Dodie, Coag, Cnote, and iforgotmypassword, violadude, philip and I when we partake(the young idiots, aka, the broheme's) are breaking all kinds of rules and regulations on a daily basis. I can't believe that you are in danger of getting banned for other things.


I've received heavy warnings for more harmless remarks than the statement sospie quoted, so there is certainly precedent. Perhaps it's a vendetta (I'm joking of course, lovely, lovely mods - please don't hit me).


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I've received heavy warnings for more harmless remarks than the statement sospie quoted, so there is certainly precedent. Perhaps it's a vendetta (I'm joking of course, lovely, lovely mods - please don't hit me).


I'd better not get you started then, because the mods don't like being criticized, above all things, me thinks. We love to have you around John Polednice, and would greatly miss it if you were prematurely to "quit" this site.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I dont think I can be described as a grumpy old man, yet I still find myself spending more time on other sites for all the reasons mentioned.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> I dont think I can be described as a grumpy old man, yet I still find myself spending more time on other sites for all the reasons mentioned.


Out of curiosity, which sites?


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

brianwalker said:


> We've exhausted all the topics. There's nothing more to say.


I disagree. I disagree. I disagree.

Martin


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Ill PM you.

Edit: To clavichorder


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I need to quote this, so that my conciliatory response is comprehensible:

<<... any more than I'd say that we have some extremely grumpy elderly folk who delight in superiority complexes while writing drivel that they think is enlightened - well, maybe I would say that. >>

Having been described as grumpy (and cantankerous) by a young TC _*friend*_ (not the author of the above quote), I am forced to concede that the author may have a point besides the one on his head. 

There is probably no need to point out to the mods that the quote contains no ad hominems [my spellchecker doesn't like that... ?], and is pretty much an 'if the shoe fits' statement.

I feel obliged to suggest that there is no mental state that can _Scientifically_ be described as a _superiority_ complex. What there is is an _inferiority_ complex that takes the outward appearance of assumed superiority - as a defense mechanism. Given the input from my TC friend, I will, with pleasure in fact, accept the 'grumpy old' label. The 'drivel' thing is a judgement call by the author, which he is entitled to in his ignorance.

I realize that I cannot speak for the other grumpy old folks in the membership; still, I hope this message will ameliorate any damage the author has caused himself.

 [extremely grumpy, but ]


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Polednice said:


> No, sospie, get rid of that quote! I'm actually worried I'll be banned because I have 9 points and they punish anything these days.


I'm convinced our dear mods are intelligent & sympathetic but if you get banned I'll start a campaign to _*Free The Noon Witch One*_


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

sospiro said:


> I'm convinced our dear mods are intelligent & sympathetic but if you get banned I'll start a campaign to _*Free The Noon Witch One*_


Well, it's only a matter of time before they ban me on a technicality, so I hope you'll start a campaign whatever the cause.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Out of curiosity, which sites?


Don't tell them!


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

We have been invited out somewhere for the evening. We do not need to go along. Still, we 
have been tense all day, and we have time in the evening. So we go along. There we find the 
usual food and the usual table conversation, everything is not only very tasty, but tasteful as 
well. Afterward, people sit together having a lively discussion, as they say, perhaps listening to 
music, having a chat, and things are witty and amusing. And already it is time to leave. The 
ladies assure us, not merely when leaving, but downstairs and outside too as we gather to leave, 
that it was really nice, or that it was terribly charming. Indeed. There is nothing at all to be 
found that might have been boring about this evening, neither the conversation, nor the people, 
nor the rooms. Thus we come home quite satisfied. We cast a quick glance at the work we 
interrupted that evening, make a rough assessment of things and look ahead to the next day -
and then it comes: I was bored after all this evening, on the occasion of this invitation.

The evening is that with which we are bored, and simultaneously, what we are bored with here 
is passing the time. In this boring situation, boredom and passing the time become intertwined
in a peculiar way. Passing the time creeps into our becoming bored and, diffused throughout the 
whole situation, achieves peculiar proportions that it is never able to assume in the first form in 
our discontinued and restless attempts. We find nothing boring, and yet passing the time takes 
on such proportions that it lays claim to the whole situation for itself. Strange!

In this chatting along with whatever is happening we have, not wrongly or to our detriment, but 
legitimately, left our proper self behind in a certain way. In this seeking nothing further here, 
which is self-evident for us, we slip away from ourselves in a certain manner. [...] In this 
casualness of leaving ourselves behind in abandoning ourselves to whatever there is going on, 
an emptiness can form. Becoming bored or being bored is determined by this emptiness forming 
itself in our apparently satisfied going along with whatever there is going on. [...] This 
emptiness is a being left behind of our proper self.

We said the time we take for ourselves is our time. This time in its standing - this is our sealed 
off having been and our unbound future, i.e., our whole time of our Dasein in a peculiar 
transformation. In this transformed form our whole time is compressed into this standing 'now' 
of the duration of the evening. This standing time - this is we ourselves; it is our self as that 
which has been left behind with respect to its provenance and future. This standing 'now' can, 
in its standing, precisely tell us that we have left it standing, which means, however, that it 
precisely is not releasing us, but that our being bound to it is impressing itself upon us. The 
standing 'now', the "during" of the evening in which the invitation endures, can manifest to us 
as such precisely this being held in limbo, being bound to our time. [...] When, letting ourselves 
go along with being there and part of things, we are thus set in place by the standing 'now' that 
is our own, albeit relinquished and empty self, then we are bored.

_My Soul . Why should the imagination of a man
Long past his prime remember things that are
Emblematical of love and war?
Think of ancestral night that can,
If but imagination scorn the earth
And intellect is wandering
To this and that and t'other thing,
Deliver from the crime of death and birth.

My self . Montashigi, third of his family, fashioned it
Five hundred years ago, about it lie
Flowers from I know not what embroidery -
Heart's purple - and all these I set
For emblems of the day against the tower
Emblematical of the night,
And claim as by a soldier's right
A charter to commit the crime once more._


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2012)

clavichorder said:


> Out of curiosity, which sites?


For goodness sake emiellucifuge don't tell them they will migrate? on second thoughts that's not a bad idea


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I noticed (maybe I am wrong) that people are participating less...So do I. When I was trying to get fun :devil: I had warnings...always from the same guy...I am not afraid though...I feel unguilty...of any charges...I am a nice guy and very friendly.
> 
> ...


For me, Martin, the low point of this forum was this thread that ended up a trainwreck and was eventually locked. The behaviours exhibited on it by one long serving member (a ultra-radical fan of contemporary classical music), whom others joined, was not much better than a witch hunt. These types of opinions speak to me more of ideology than of any kind of real lived/experienced reality. It's like making the foundation of a house from quicksand. Not very logical, whatever premise you base it on. So with that, my participation here decreased, in sheer anger at this kind of thing (not to mention antics & games of the fans of a composer who I detest, but that has nothing to do with this thread I'm talking about).

http://www.talkclassical.com/18533-post-ww2-composers-who.html

In response, I did a number of threads, this one about communication, but after that thread, I think why bother here, ideology seems to rule above clear thinking. So it's becoming like that for me, and I think 3 years on a forum as I have been is maybe enough (of rigorous participation, anyway).

http://www.talkclassical.com/18567-thoughts-communication.html

But most members here I do respect, however it only takes a few rotten apples in the bunch to make me not want to come back, or not want to participate for fear of this kind of Stalin show-trial behaviour becoming the norm.

& I haven't gone off to another classical forum, I think TC is still the friendliest one I know, but I would be dismayed if it goes down the path of another one which I think is the pits. One cannot give an opinion there, it seems, about anything unless you own every recorded version of the work (or nearly). Funnily enough, sales that go through that site get a kick back from a popular cd selling site, so no surprises of this buy buy buy agenda (they are funded by that commercial site). Who sez classical music ain't a business? Well, you're more highbrow if you buy a dozen or more versions of the same symphony (or maybe just rich?). Dunno, don't care basically. It's an illusion of reality, a parallel universe. Maybe they should shell out on a course or book on communication instead. No joke. Attitood, people.

Anyway I could rant more but no use in that.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I'm convinced our dear mods are intelligent & sympathetic but if you get banned I'll start a campaign to _*Free The Noon Witch One*_


Interesting...I didn't know (it is incredible how many things I don't know)...But in Czech the translation of noon witch is Polednice. Very ingenious. By the way it is a work by Dvorak.

Martin

:tiphat:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Interesting...I didn't know (it is incredible how many things I don't know)...But in Czech the translation of noon witch is Polednice. Very ingenious. By the way it is a work by Dvorak.
> 
> Martin
> 
> :tiphat:


That is precisely why I chose the name, dearest Martin!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Having been described as grumpy (and cantankerous) by a young TC _*friend*_ (not the author of the above quote), I am forced to concede that the author may have a point besides the one on his head.


I meant *loveably* cantankerous, Hilltroll. Like my pet catfish, who bites my hand when I feed him.

It was a compliment, not an insult.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Fsharpmajor said:


> I meant *loveably* cantankerous, Hilltroll. Like my pet catfish, who bites my hand when I feed him.
> 
> It was a compliment, not an insult.


 I was referring to _another_ TC friend, _major_.

[Yes, the evidence is piling up. Unfortunately, I am impervious to all attempts at rehabilitation.]


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

I happened. I'm the problem. 

I'm leaving. 

Goodbye.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Goodbye. You seem much more cheerful these days with your hipster Cersei.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

I've been here for 1 year and 5 months, and I can say that this site is still going strong.. I just miss my fellow Schubertians here: Artemis and Toccata.

I miss Toccata the most..


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Polednice said:


> That is precisely why I chose the name, dearest Martin!


You are so smart! and so is the person who mentioned it! As I said...I am so old and I have so much to learn yet! It is impossible. I will die ignorant!



Martin, crying...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> You are so smart! and so is the person who mentioned it! As I said...I am so old and I have so much to learn yet! It is impossible. I will die ignorant!
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, crying...


Martin, I suspect that you know at least as much as is necessary already. Some knowledge is better not gained.

I'm pretty sure I would sleep better...

_Hilltroll, gnashing tusks..._


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Martin, I suspect that you know at least as much as is necessary already. Some knowledge is better not gained.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I would sleep better...
> 
> _Hilltroll, gnashing tusks..._


I need to know more and more...it is a neverdending story...I guess learning new stuff is getting more difficult because I'm getting older...Nevertheless, I'm always reading and learning...I love music with passion. Music is MY biggest passion.

Martin


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Martin <3<3<3


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> Martin <3<3<3


What is the meaning of this?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> What is the meaning of this?


That's not a good response, Martin. I suggest:

"Oh yeah? Right back at you, [insert moniker here]!"

(You probably can't be more precise when you don't know what you're responding to.)


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> That's not a good response, Martin. I suggest:
> 
> "Oh yeah? Right back at you, [insert moniker here]!"
> 
> (You probably can't be more precise when you don't know what you're responding to.)


Was is das???? Answering like that is like not answering at all. Maybe in "English" <3<3<3 is meaninful, English is not my mother tongue (do I have a mother tongue?)...



Martin, confused


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Was is das???? Answering like that is like not answering at all. Maybe in "English" <3<3<3 is meaninful, English is not my mother tongue (do I have a mother tongue?)...
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, confused


OK Martin, you are certainly free to ignore my advice. So... you could try looking at <3 as a pictograph. Up to you, of course.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I can see inspiration is badly needed.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Was is das???? Answering like that is like not answering at all. Maybe in "English" <3<3<3 is meaninful, English is not my mother tongue (do I have a mother tongue?)...
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, confused


Rotate it to the left, Martin - Cnote loves you! <3


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Rotate it to the left, Martin - Cnote loves you! <3


Danke schön!

Martin


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## Guest (May 5, 2012)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Danke schön!
> 
> Martin


Said Alice looking at the Hatter


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Andante said:


> Said Alice looking at the Hatter


I read both Alices though...


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## Guest (May 6, 2012)

Well done it's great to have a man of such literary talents here lol I'm going to have a go at one of them soon (alban berg is alive and kicking)


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Andante said:


> Well done it's great to have a man of such literary talents here lol I'm going to have a go at one of them soon (alban berg is alive and kicking)


I'd really like to know what exactly you are talking about...but I LOVE Alban Berg


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## Guest (May 9, 2012)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I'd really like to know what exactly you are talking about...but I LOVE Alban Berg


You have PM lol


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Andante said:


> You have PM lol


Pre Menstrual stuff? I am a man. I don't have that. Sometimes I feel hor... and I see my wife for that...LOL. She understands me very well...LOL (I hope I won't have any warnings for saying this, I cross my fingers)


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I read both Alices though...


One can also _hear_ an Alice, sometimes...

e.g.: David Del Tredici-- _The Final Alice._


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I've just bought this record. It is very nice: The Final Alice

Thank you!

Martin


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