# Which Of These Beethoven Symphony Cycles Would You Keep?



## realdealblues

Looking through my CD collection today I realize I have 34 Complete Beethoven Symphony Cycles. 
Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder 
(These are just the complete cycles, I have many incomplete cycles)

Abbado
Barenboim
Bernstein (60's & 70's)
Blomstedt
Bohm
Chailly
Cluytens
Davis
Furtwangler
Gardiner
Haitink
Harnoncourt
Jarvi
Jochum
Karajan (60's,70's, 80's & EMI Set)
Klemperer
Krips
Kubelik
Mackerras
Marriner
Masur
Muti
Norrington
Rattle
Solti
Szell
Toscanini
Vanska
Walter
Wand
Zinman

So, tell me, if you were going to "thin out the herd" so to speak given these choices what would you keep.
Give me your "Top 5" or "Top 10" even...or your "Bottom 5" or "Bottom 10" even.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I would keep the Norrington, Gardiner, Karajan 60s, Toscanini and Furtwangler sets.


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## realdealblues

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I would keep the Norrington, Gardiner, Karajan 60s, Toscanini and Furtwangler sets.


Interesting. I figure the Karajan 60's set and Furtwangler will be popular and maybe the Gardiner for a HIP set. The rest will be interesting to see. I'm kind of surprised to see the Norrington. That's one of those sets that seems to either be one extreme or the other. People either love it or hate it and it seems to never have much middle ground where people say "it's ok".


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## joen_cph

I would acquire Scherchen, Leibowitz and Mengelberg, and keep at least Karajan 60, Furtwaengler, gardiner, Walter and Wand. But there are of course sets I haven' t heard 

Edit: also Vanska.


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## campy

realdealblues said:


> [...] I'm kind of surprised to see the Norrington. That's one of those sets that seems to either be one extreme or the other. People either love it or hate it and it seems to never have much middle ground where people say "it's ok".


I have it. I think it's okay.


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## bigshot

I would keep them all and get Kletzki, the glaring omission from that list!


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## elgar's ghost

I'd keep the Norrington - it's so de rigueur for people to slag it off it must have something going for it. 

Apart from that and the Barenboim (which I haven't listened to all that much yet) the only other set I have from the list above is Karajan's 60s cycle - they were the first recordings of Beethoven's symphonies I bought and I'm still very fond of them.


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## Aghartha

I really like the Cluytens set so I would keep that one.


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## Ukko

Bernstein, Gardiner, Norrington, Szell, Walter, and add Scherchen.


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## Vaneyes

Harnoncourt, P. Jarvi, HvK '60's, then 70's, Solti 70's, Szell, Walter.


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## DavidA

I have cycles by Toscanini, Harnoncourt, Karajan (63), Klemperer (EMI), Klemperer 2 (mostly live radio broadcasts) and Norrington. I used to have Karajan (77) on vinyl. None is without interest, none is perfect. I would play the Toscanini a lot more if he recordings were more bearable as the performances are electrifying. However, the recording is so dry it is difficult on the ear.


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## KenOC

From the original list, I'd keep:

Chailly
Gardiner
Karajan (60's)
Krips (keep the can only)
Walter

For those who like Toscanini but don't like the sound, Gardiner.


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## DavidA

Of course there is the tremendous disc of Carlos Kleiber's amazing performances of Beethoven's fifth and seventh symphonies with the VPO. Whatever cycles you have that disc is a must.


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## Ripvanwinkle

Give me the 1973 cycle by Solti and CSO.


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## RJay

Karajan 1960's version.


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## Guest

realdealblues said:


> Looking through my CD collection today I realize I have 34 Complete Beethoven Symphony Cycles.
> Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder
> (These are just the complete cycles, I have many incomplete cycles)
> 
> Abbado
> Barenboim
> Bernstein (60's & 70's)
> Blomstedt
> Bohm
> Chailly
> Cluytens
> Davis
> Furtwangler
> Gardiner
> Haitink
> Harnoncourt
> Jarvi
> Jochum
> Karajan (60's,70's, 80's & EMI Set)
> Klemperer
> Krips
> Kubelik
> Mackerras
> Marriner
> Masur
> Muti
> Norrington
> Rattle
> Solti
> Szell
> Toscanini
> Vanska
> Walter
> Wand
> Zinman
> 
> So, tell me, if you were going to "thin out the herd" so to speak given these choices what would you keep.
> Give me your "Top 5" or "Top 10" even...or your "Bottom 5" or "Bottom 10" even.


Congratulations. That's a very impressive list and I wouldn't dare to make any suggestions of the kind you request!!! The 'disease' you speak of is that of the devoted music-lover and passionate audiophile!!


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## DavidA

realdealblues said:


> Looking through my CD collection today I realize I have 34 Complete Beethoven Symphony Cycles.
> Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder
> (These are just the complete cycles, I have many incomplete cycles)
> 
> Abbado
> Barenboim
> Bernstein (60's & 70's)
> Blomstedt
> Bohm
> Chailly
> Cluytens
> Davis
> Furtwangler
> Gardiner
> Haitink
> Harnoncourt
> Jarvi
> Jochum
> Karajan (60's,70's, 80's & EMI Set)
> Klemperer
> Krips
> Kubelik
> Mackerras
> Marriner
> Masur
> Muti
> Norrington
> Rattle
> Solti
> Szell
> Toscanini
> Vanska
> Walter
> Wand
> Zinman
> 
> So, tell me, if you were going to "thin out the herd" so to speak given these choices what would you keep.
> Give me your "Top 5" or "Top 10" even...or your "Bottom 5" or "Bottom 10" even.


I'll show this to my wife to prove there is someone who is a greater hoarder than me! Congratulations!


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## ptr

realdealblues said:


> Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder


Welcome to the gang, hoarding is fun! 

My Top five from Your list:



> Cluytens
> Harnoncourt
> Gardiner
> Klemperer
> Mackerras (Hyperion) not the earlier EMI/CFP set


I really miss:

Brüggen (Glossa), which I think is the best HIP cycle (in stern competition with his earlier Philips set!)

/ptr


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## Andreas

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Congratulations. That's a very impressive list and I wouldn't dare to make any suggestions of the kind you request!!! The 'disease' you speak of is that of the devoted music-lover and passionate audiophile!!


Perhaps this illustrates more a disease of the industry.


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## FLighT

realdealblues said:


> Looking through my CD collection today I realize I have 34 Complete Beethoven Symphony Cycles.
> Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder
> (These are just the complete cycles, I have many incomplete cycles)
> 
> Abbado
> Barenboim
> Bernstein (60's & 70's)
> Blomstedt
> Bohm
> Chailly
> Cluytens
> Davis
> Furtwangler
> Gardiner
> Haitink
> Harnoncourt
> Jarvi
> Jochum
> Karajan (60's,70's, 80's & EMI Set)
> Klemperer
> Krips
> Kubelik
> Mackerras
> Marriner
> Masur
> Muti
> Norrington
> Rattle
> Solti
> Szell
> Toscanini
> Vanska
> Walter
> Wand
> Zinman
> 
> So, tell me, if you were going to "thin out the herd" so to speak given these choices what would you keep.
> Give me your "Top 5" or "Top 10" even...or your "Bottom 5" or "Bottom 10" even.


Wow! It appears that with respect to Beethoven Symphonies you might be a completest. If that's the case the sets you get rid of will haunt you forever. If you have MP3 capability I would suggest backing the sets up before relinquishing them. I believe it will be more comfortable that way.

I've never gotten rid of any classical music CD, had 2 go bad on me, but...


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## SixFootScowl

Wow, this is a great thread. 34 complete Beethoven symphony cycles! I have about 34 Beethoven Ninths, but only three symphony cycles: Walter, Wand, and Hanover Band. I really like Wand. Hanover Band is quite nice too. For me Wand is definitely preferred over Walter. I also really like Gardiner's Eroica very much but have not heard his whole cycle.


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## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> Wow, this is a great thread. 34 complete Beethoven symphony cycles! I have about 34 Beethoven Ninths, but only three symphony cycles: Walter, Wand, and Hanover Band. I really like Wand. Hanover Band is quite nice too. For me Wand is definitely preferred over Walter. I also really like Gardiner's Eroica very much but have not heard his whole cycle.


This is a fairly old post but since you brought it back up I"ll update my journey...lol.

Eventually I almost doubled that number and ended up with "65" complete Beethoven Cycles.

Earlier this year I finally went back thinned the heard and I now have around 20 cycles. After owning and listening to that many cycles constantly I was finally able to discern what I felt was correct for Beethoven in general.

So, I started by deciding to listen for what I "didn't like" instead of what I liked. Using that thought process I quickly cut at least half of them out of my collection. I had hoped that when I got done my collection would be around 10 cycles that were the best in my eyes (or ears as this case may be), but I just couldn't do it. There were too many that while maybe a couple symphonies might not have been as ideal as I would have liked them to be, the rest were far too special to part with. And in most cases there wasn't any reason to try to buy those recordings individually. I bought most of my complete cycles for around $10-15 which is cheaper than buying individual CD's in most cases. A few I also kept because they were in a conductor's box set which contained many other recordings that I had no intentions of getting rid of so overall I'm pretty happy with what I have now.


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## SixFootScowl

Well I hope you kept Wand. However, there are few cycles that I would appreciate for the Ninth. I actually run Wand for 1-8 and then switch over to Fricsay for the Ninth. But you are making me think that a few more cycles would not be a bad idea for me. But really I should restrain myself. Hope you got a decent price for the cycles you removed from your collection.


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## tgtr0660

Barenboim
Chailly
Furtwangler
Gardiner
Karajan (60's)
Klemperer
Mackerras
Solti
Szell
Toscanini
Walter
Wand

Done


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## Radames

DavidA said:


> Of course there is the tremendous disc of Carlos Kleiber's amazing performances of Beethoven's fifth and seventh symphonies with the VPO. Whatever cycles you have that disc is a must.


Yes. And keep Szell - his 3rd is the best ever. Then keep Jochum - his 9th is my favorite.


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## realdealblues

Florestan said:


> Well I hope you kept Wand. However, there are few cycles that I would appreciate for the Ninth. I actually run Wand for 1-8 and then switch over to Fricsay for the Ninth. But you are making me think that a few more cycles would not be a bad idea for me. But really I should restrain myself. Hope you got a decent price for the cycles you removed from your collection.


A few things I sold as the Big Conductor box sets came out.

*The Big Conductor Box Sets that I have that include the complete Beethoven Symphonies:*

Bernstein's 70's Cycle (I have the Complete Bernstein DG Collection Vol. 1 Box Set)
Bohm (I have the Bohm Symphony Edition)
Jochum (I have the Big EMI Box Set)
Karajan 60's Cycle (I have the Complete Karajan 60's Box Set)
Karajan 70's Cycle (I have the Complete Karajan 70's Box Set)
Kubelik (I have the Kubelik Symphony Edition)
Toscanini (I have the Complete RCA Recordings Box Set)
Walter (I have the Big Bruno Walter Box Set)
Wand (I have the Big Gunter Wand Box Set)

Those all have other recordings that I wanted so those were keepers anyway. There's a few other big sets I intend to get as the prices come down that include complete Beethoven Cycles, but that is what I have for now.

*The Beethoven Specific Sets I still have:*

Bernstein's 60's Cycle
Blomstedt
Chailly
Furtwangler
Kempe
Klemperer
Kletzki
Leibowitz
Szell

I got rid of all the others. I still have lots of other Beethoven recordings though, like Fricsay's 9th, etc. But for complete cycles I've narrowed it down quite a bit from 65 complete cycles...lol.


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## Karafan

Kletzki's cycle is hugely underrated IMHO.

K


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## Haydn man

I am in awe at how you managed to collect and then listen to all these cycles
I think Beethoven was the first full symphonic cycle I ever had bought for me (Abbado) Still only have that one but do have a mixture of other performances for most of them.
I think the comment about how cheaply box sets can now bought for is true and will certainly increase the number I buy in the future, but I doubt I will ever have anything like the numbers quoted.


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## hpowders

He's either very wealthy or very bored!


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> He's either very wealthy or very bored!


or he has OCD


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## david johnson

send them all to me and start over


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## realdealblues

Haydn man said:


> I am in awe at how you managed to collect and then listen to all these cycles
> I think Beethoven was the first full symphonic cycle I ever had bought for me (Abbado) Still only have that one but do have a mixture of other performances for most of them.
> I think the comment about how cheaply box sets can now bought for is true and will certainly increase the number I buy in the future, but I doubt I will ever have anything like the numbers quoted.


Collecting them was easy...take $20 a week and buy a cycle or two for 15 years. Most of them are dirt cheap and if you hunt around and bide your time you can get many of them super cheap.



hpowders said:


> He's either very wealthy or very bored!


Neither, just very passionate about music. That's why I play in 3 bands and learn at least 1 new song every week. I have the luxury of also having a job where I can listen to music all day long. I also suffered from insomnia for about 10 years so I would spend all night listening to records while studying or doing whatever.



Florestan said:


> or he has OCD


I can't deny that possibility. I admit I'm a constant hand washer and crooked pictures or objects drive me crazy...lol.

But I just really like Beethoven's symphonies. My Mahler addiction is just as bad. I'm not married and I have no kids. I'd rather listen to music than watch TV. Some people spend $20 a week on cigarettes, I spend it on music.


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## SixFootScowl

Well I guess I am as much OCD with my 35 Beethoven Ninths.  I often am spontaneous on buying CDs and when I get the urge to buy, I about drop everything and pursue my selection to the purchase. It is fun like the hunt cumulating in the kill (by the way, I don't hunt animals, just a simile). There is a certain satisfaction to making the purchase but then a let down because the hunt is over, so you go in pursuit of more. It is never ending.


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## bigshot

Florestan said:


> Well I guess I am as much OCD with my 35 Beethoven Ninths.


You made me curious, so I went and checked. I have a paltry 23 ninths. (But let's not talk about Ring Cycles! I am too ashamed to try to figure out that number.)


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## realdealblues

bigshot said:


> You made me curious, so I went and checked. I have a paltry 23 ninths. (But let's not talk about Ring Cycles! I am too ashamed to try to figure out that number.)


I didn't get as carried away with full Ring Cycles...

I had:

Barenboim
Bohm
Furtwangler 53
Goodall
Janowski
Karajan
Keilberth
Levine
Solti
(And Boulez On DVD)

My goal was to get down to 1 Studio & 1 Live Ring Cycle which I eventually did. I'm down to Bohm & Janowski. I do still have Boulez on DVD. I will however get Karajan's Ring Cycle again when DG releases his complete Opera Recordings at some point in the future.


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## bigshot

I was to the point of whittling it all down to listening to just a couple of Rings over and over at one point too... and then the Mehta Valencia Ring came out and I got the Testament "lost Ring" and it all started over again.


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## Weston

This Karajan massive Beethoven box is alleged to be mostly early 80s recordings, remastered to get a less harsh digital sound. I don't see Karajan 80s mentioned. Is it totally not in the running?

View attachment 55630


It's got a few overtures and incidental music I've never even heard of. Plus Consecration, King Stephen etc. which I don't really have a very good performance of.


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## bigshot

Karajan 80s is OK for an alternative choice after you have a few others. But the balances and recording quality are pretty eccentric. It's got heavy helpings of that patented Karajan upholstered sound, so the qualities of it are more in surface texture than emotional depth.


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## DavidA

Weston said:


> This Karajan massive Beethoven box is alleged to be mostly early 80s recordings, remastered to get a less harsh digital sound. I don't see Karajan 80s mentioned. Is it totally not in the running?
> 
> View attachment 55630
> 
> 
> It's got a few overtures and incidental music I've never even heard of. Plus Consecration, King Stephen etc. which I don't really have a very good performance of.


the large Karajan boix is actually the 1970s recordings with the largely superb 77 Beethoven cycle. It is fantastic value at Amazon for ales than £30 and you get Brahms, Bruckner, Haydn, Mozart, Tchaikowsky, Mendelssohn et al into the bargain.


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## bigshot

I can't see the picture. Is it the expensive 80s box, or the inexpensive 70s symphonies box. Because I have the inexpensive symphonies box and it is worth it for the Bruckner alone.


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## DavidA

bigshot said:


> I can't see the picture. Is it the expensive 80s box, or the inexpensive 70s symphonies box. Because I have the inexpensive symphonies box and it is worth it for the Bruckner alone.


It is the 77 set. Worth it for what else you get!


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## hpowders

I personally would keep Abbado, Bernstein (both), Karajan (60's), Mackerras, Toscanini (although you don't say which cycle), Vänskä, Walter and Wand.

The one I would throw out first is Furtwängler, slow as s____t. I don't have all day!!


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## AndorFoldes

Glad to see that you kept Blomstedt, and ditched Norrington.

The Karajan 1980s set has massive recordings of the 3rd and 8th symphonies.


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## BartokPizz

Keep:

Szell
Gardiner
Zinman
Karajan (all)

Cull:

Haitink (assuming this is the LSO Live?)
Muti
Norrington
Vanska
Walter


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## Lord Lance

realdealblues said:


> Looking through my CD collection today I realize I have 34 Complete Beethoven Symphony Cycles.
> Yes, I know I have a disease and am a terrible hoarder
> (These are just the complete cycles, I have many incomplete cycles)
> 
> Abbado
> Barenboim
> Bernstein (60's & 70's)
> Blomstedt
> Bohm
> Chailly
> Cluytens
> Davis
> Furtwangler
> Gardiner
> Haitink
> Harnoncourt
> Jarvi
> Jochum
> Karajan (60's,70's, 80's & EMI Set)
> Klemperer
> Krips
> Kubelik
> Mackerras
> Marriner
> Masur
> Muti
> Norrington
> Rattle
> Solti
> Szell
> Toscanini
> Vanska
> Walter
> Wand
> Zinman
> 
> So, tell me, if you were going to "thin out the herd" so to speak given these choices what would you keep.
> Give me your "Top 5" or "Top 10" even...or your "Bottom 5" or "Bottom 10" even.


The particularly "un-noteworthy"
1. Davis
2. Krips
3. Norrington ["Speed=Greatness"]
4. Furtwangler [Drama/Tension/Power aside, the sound of the other recordings are top-notch or near it and they aren't 8/10th of the performances when compared to Furtwangler
5. Solti [Doesn't know when to keep let music speak for itself and sometimes, you wish to tell the CSO, "Lighten up!"
6. Chailly [Extremely fast; loses lot of details]
7. Masur [Mediocre performances]
8. Rattle [No originality as such.]
9. Bernstein 1
10. Bernstein 2
_No hatred towards Bernstein but Beethoven really wasn't his alley. Second favorite conductor.
_

Worth Keeping:
1. Abbado [2001 Live]
2. Barenboim [2000 Staatskapelle Dresden; marvellous!]
3. Karajan 60/70/80s [Preferences.... Pick your favorite. 70s is middle of the road...best bet]
4. Gardiner [HIP set which doesn't overdo it!]
5. Haitink [LSO; Live, energetic like Abbado's aforementioned set but with his own unique musical drive.]
6. Szell [Classic]
7. Toscanini [Historically important; fast. Unique Beethoven.]
8. Walter [CBS.... Warm and happy recording (Is that even possible?) Brisk tempi and solid performances throughout.]
9. Wand [EXCELLENT Third. Worth the set's value alone.]
10. Bohm [Honorary entry. Moderate tempi, big-band Beethoven. Recorded with the Wiener Philharmoniker - beautiful sound]


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## Albert7

I have kept the Karajan 1963 set. Haven't gotten to listen to any other set until I finish listening to Karajan '63.


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## Lord Lance

Discard all my comments regarding Bernstein's Beethoven.

His Beethoven's Symphonies' cycle with New York Philharmonic is excellent.


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## PetrB

Bohm
Chailly
Cluytens
Furtwangler
Gardiner
Ochum
Kubelik
Szell
Walter
Wand

Even with the above, that's about seven too many in my book. From the list you had, any winnowing is a bit 'arbitrary,'

Yes, you maybe have a hording problem, but when it comes to recordings, if not you, I've seen it from others on TC here: It is not a matter simple enough to call 'hoarding.' There is something sharply _acquisitive_ about owning so many recordings, as if the purchaser thinks they will then, the more copies the truer it is, "Own The Music."

After you get it down to ten, I'd bring it down further to three sets -- you've got all those various single copies, as well (ahem.)

If you accepted a hypothetical that you and all your belongings had to be out of your current residence within three weeks from today, and that there was no possibility of storage, I bet you could edit your eniter collection down to the most desired and salient, and pretty quickly, too.


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## bigshot

It all depends on what you are listening for. If you just want a recording of a composition, any good one will do. If your focus is on the performance, then you need more variations on the theme, or you may start grouping recordings in your head by performer, not by composer. In general, classical music fans spend their first decade or so focusing on compositions. Once they've gotten familiar with that territory, they start realizing that there is another level to the music- the contribution of the performer. That realization opens up a whole new world.


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## PetrB

bigshot said:


> It all depends on what you are listening for. If you just want a recording of a composition, any good one will do. If your focus is on the performance, then you need more variations on the theme, or you may start grouping recordings in your head by performer, not by composer. In general, classical music fans spend their first decade or so focusing on compositions. Once they've gotten familiar with that territory, they start realizing that there is another level to the music- the contribution of the performer. That realization opens up a whole new world.


Then after that, the realization that twenty good different interpretations are just not necessary to own, at least after you've checked them all out a multitude of times.

I think a TC member fainted when I answered their OP "How much Beethoven do you own." Answer -- none.


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## Lord Lance

PetrB said:


> Then after that, the realization that twenty good different interpretations are just not necessary to own, at least after you've checked them all out a multitude of times.
> 
> I think a TC member fainted when I answered their OP "How much Beethoven do you own." Answer -- none.


Perhaps it was I. A standard question I ask to most people when I converse them. If not, your answer certainly shocks me!

But, owing just _one _set is insufficient. The styles of performing Beethoven's 9 symphonies [no doubt overplayed to the extent of needing a global ban] are quite a few. And varied they are! One must experience all of them before deciding to settle on one - which is unlikely.


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## Templeton

Fascinating thread and pleased to see that I have several of the favourites. 

I note that one or two have mentioned the Jarvi cycle; is this the Paavo Jarvi one and if so, what are people's opinions of it? I have watched the 6th, 7th and 9th concert versions on YouTube, which I thought were utterly sensational. Are the CD recordings live or studio versions?

So far, and I am just a relative beginner, my preferred interpretations have been by Szell and Furtwangler. I have the Wand cycle, as part of his huge symphony box set, but haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. Obviously Carlos Kleiber too, for his various performances of the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th with the VPO, Bayerisches Staatsorchester and on DVD, with the Royal Concertgebouw.

Am also curious as to Sir Neville Marriner's interpretations. Does anybody have any thoughts?


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## DavidA

Templeton said:


> Am also curious as to Sir Neville Marriner's interpretations. Does anybody have any thoughts?


I've always found him to be a bit of a lightweight.


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## hpowders

Perhaps, Sir Neville is a bit of a lightweight, because his orchestra, AOSMITF, is lightweight in its membership.


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## pentaquine

I will keep Abbado BPO at Rome, there's no question about it. I'll probably keep Chailly, and Haitink with RCO.


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## SixFootScowl

pentaquine said:


> I will keep Abbado BPO at Rome, there's no question about it. I'll probably keep Chailly, and Haitink with RCO.


Haitink is supposed to be an excellent cycle.


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## Albert7

Lord Lance said:


> Perhaps it was I. A standard question I ask to most people when I converse them. If not, your answer certainly shocks me!
> 
> But, owing just _one _set is insufficient. The styles of performing Beethoven's 9 symphonies [no doubt overplayed to the extent of needing a global ban] are quite a few. And varied they are! One must experience all of them before deciding to settle on one - which is unlikely.


You are correct about multiple cycles, bear, but you did not provide a list of which Beethoven symphony cycles that you own. And yes you do have the Furtwangler set I believe too.


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## Lord Lance

*Difficult answer*



Albert7 said:


> You are correct about multiple cycles, bear, but you did not provide a list of which Beethoven symphony cycles that you own. And yes you do have the Furtwangler set I believe too.


That's a difficult task. Its very mixed. There are some YT cycles, some downloaded which are in my Beethoven folder and some are from box sets of conductors which are in the conductor's folder. Before my purge, there were five cycles. Lastly, Naxos cycles.


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## Albert7

Lord Lance said:


> That's a difficult task. Its very mixed. There are some YT cycles, some downloaded which are in my Beethoven folder and some are from box sets of conductors which are in the conductor's folder. Before my purge, there were five cycles. Lastly, Naxos cycles.


You aren't being very exact with which conductor/orchestras combinations that you have... some isn't quite an exact descriptor by any means.


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## Lord Lance

Albert7 said:


> You aren't being very exact with which conductor/orchestras combinations that you have... some isn't quite an exact descriptor by any means.


Karajan's Three DG cycles
Barenboim's Berliner Staatskapelle
Wand
Gardiner
Bruggen's First Set
Bernstein DG & NYP
Klemperer's EMI set
Klemperer's collection of live performances found in *"Beethoven, Brahms and Bruckner".*

Among others....


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## dieter

hpowders said:


> Perhaps, Sir Neville is a bit of a lightweight, because his orchestra, AOSMITF, is lightweight in its membership.


No, it's because Marriner is a very good lightweight conductor, simply lost with anything even vaguely profound. He should stick to what he's good at, I.E. Rossini String sonatas.


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## david johnson

*gasp* you don't have the Schmidt-Isserstedt/vpo cycle on your list...


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## realdealblues

david johnson said:


> *gasp* you don't have the Schmidt-Isserstedt/vpo cycle on your list...


Yeah, I purchased it well after that first post 4 years ago. I sold it along with many others though in the great culling.


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## hpowders

I would keep the greatest Beethoven set of all, the one not mentioned in the original post:

Karajan/Philharmonia from the 1950's. Magnificent!


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## hpowders

dieter said:


> No, it's because Marriner is a very good lightweight conductor, simply lost with anything even vaguely profound. He should stick to what he's good at, I.E. Rossini String sonatas.


Marriner was the "go to" guy for stylish baroque performances in the 1960's, especially Handel. But many others passed him by since then.

I have a Haydn Creation conducted by him and it was painful to listen to-slow and sounded to me like the dreaded "R" word (Romantic).


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## Brahmsian Colors

Karajan '60s and Walter. Aside from them, I have kept only one other set, which you don't list---Weingartner's.


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## SixFootScowl

Haydn67 said:


> Karajan '60s and Walter. Aside from them, I have kept only one other set, which you don't list---*Weingartner's*.


Now that is a real oldie, isn't it?


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## Brahmsian Colors

Florestan said:


> Now that is a real oldie, isn't it?


Yes. My favorite pre-stereo conductor in Beethoven and Brahms.


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## Pugg

Abbado, Bernstein (60's & 70's),Bohm, Haitink, Karajan 60's,70's,Marriner, Muti, Solti,Szell

These ones I would keep.


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## wkasimer

Of those you list, I'd definitely keep only Barenboim (the one with the Berlin Staatskapelle, definitely NOT "Beethoven for Everyone"), Chailly, Jarvi, Jochum (probably the Concertgebouw one), Walter (the mono cycle), and perhaps Haitink's most recent cycle with the LSO. And I'd like to add Bruggen's first cycle for Philips, Krivine and Schmidt-Isserstedt, if you can find them, and supplement with some of Furtwangler's live recordings in preference to the complete set of his studio recordings, which are lesser Furtwangler. I've heard most of the others on the list, and have culled nearly all of them.


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## bavlf

Pugg said:


> Abbado, Bernstein (60's & 70's),Bohm, Haitink, Karajan 60's,70's,Marriner, Muti, Solti,Szell
> 
> These ones I would keep.


Please, with Claudio Abbado, which cycle?

WPO 1989








BPO 2000








BPO 2008


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## Merl

bavlf said:


> Please, with Claudio Abbado, which cycle?
> 
> WPO 1989
> View attachment 148199
> 
> 
> BPO 2000
> View attachment 148200
> 
> 
> BPO 2008
> View attachment 148201


There's little between the bottom 2 (they even share the same 9th) but I have a slight preference for Rome set. The VPO cycle sucks. Boring!!!


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