# Sewing machine music



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Some works of the baroque and galante eras used to be called "sewing machine music." What works and composers would you lump under this label? Any?


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

I don't know what is meant by "sewing machine music." You'll have to explain the simile.


----------



## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

Not sure what is meant by "sewing machine music", but it does remind me of Bach, who "sews" melody lines together like no other. It also reminds me of Vivaldi, but for a different reason...


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

pedal pedal buzz whirrr pedal pedal, etc,

https://www.google.com/search?q=treadle+sewing+machine&client=firefox-a&hs=OOY&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4LGVUYuOLIqLqQHw5IHoBw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=738

Chugga chugga motorific machine-like streams of constant running sixteenth notes,

I nominate Vivaldi and say, 70% of all Bach.

It also implies "Music by the yard," write and write and cut off a length from the yardage as suits.

Again, the two above, and tossing in a lot of Paul Hindemith, on the "music by the yard" premise if nothing else.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> I don't know what is meant by "sewing machine music." You'll have to explain the simile.


Never apologize. Never explain. (Genghis Khan, _Leadership for Modern Managers_, channeled talks at the Harvard Business School, 1998)


----------



## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

For me, "sewing machine music" is a problem with the performance rather than the composition. Overly literal-minded interpretations with poor phrasing causes the sewing machine effect.

Non-sewing machine baroque has good phrasing, clear counterpoint, and is played in a flexible, rather than meteonomic, tempo. GG, and Jordi Savall are both very good at that.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ahammel said:


> For me, "sewing machine music" is a problem with the performance rather than the composition. Overly literal-minded interpretations with poor phrasing causes the sewing machine effect.
> 
> Non-sewing machine baroque has good phrasing, clear counterpoint, and is played in a flexible, rather than meteonomic, tempo. GG, and Jordi Savall are both very good at that.


Regardless, journeyman pro composers, by the nature of the era and their jobs, were cranking out music by the yard.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Such a great era for music.


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Better era for sewing machines, apparently...


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Kieran said:


> Better era for sewing machines, apparently...


Are you a singer?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kieran said:


> Better era for sewing machines, apparently...


One of the worst eras for treating composers like sewing machines and expecting them to be like a sewing machine, no offense meant to the still future Elias Howe.

Film score composers still run on that sort of schedule:
How many yards; which cloth; what color and pattern do you want -- and of course you need it all, without opportunity of a second fitting, in two weeks?


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ahammel said:


> For me, "sewing machine music" is a problem with the performance rather than the composition. Overly literal-minded interpretations with poor phrasing causes the sewing machine effect.
> 
> Non-sewing machine baroque has good phrasing, clear counterpoint, and is played in a flexible, rather than meteonomic, tempo. GG, and Jordi Savall are both very good at that.


Just sounds like a more expensive sewing machine.


----------



## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

To me, "sewing machine" mainly implies that the music is made by the hands, not by the head, much less by the heart. The composer simply knows certain patterns and formulas and thus can endlessly fabricate musical matter without much imaginative effort.

Simon Sechter, Bruckner's counterpoint teacher, wrote close to 6000 fugues in his life.

I would think people who apply this term to Haydn, Mozart or even Vivaldi and Bach simply prefer a very different kind of music.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Regardless, journeyman pro composers, by the nature of the era and their jobs, were cranking out music by the yard.


Yes, and this says nothing about the quality of the music, only that they composed a lot of it, which as far as I'm concerned shouldn't be considered as a fault with the music, or the composer.

As far as the OP, personally I wouldn't place any well-known composers under this category.


----------



## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

This is a very romantically tinged idea, the reaction against perceived mechanisation and a attempt to find a more authentic, personal quality. The new technologies of the industrial revolution promised a very different future and were often sold on the idea of uniformity and dependability. Then there were backlashes against the technology and people once more craved the individuality of the artisan's work. The same kind of reversals came in the 1920s and 1950s with increases in automation and people eager to get the same quality consumer goods as everyone else, then people instead valuing the hand made uniqueness of items. An earlier, Victorian, reaction against the manufactured would be the arts and crafts movement.

Music follows a similar path with people like Vivaldi, Bach, Telemann, Haydn and Mozart prized for their ability to produce more of the same, again and again at a consistently high standard and then a reaction against that with the romantic composers feeling the need to hand make their works, less to be consumed and more with the idea of being cherished. They became luxury consumer items with composers producing a handful of symphonies, or a small number of piano sonatas (as has been noted recently). Beethoven really is a transitional figure in this sense as he produced plenty of sonatas, quartets and song settings, along the Haydn model, but relatively few of works he might have wished to be remembered by.

This continues in music, albeit along a more blurred path, with some bands recognised for their ability to produce a consistent body of work, using their own sound and staying true to themselves against changing fads. While other bands and artists are either celebrated for their chameleon-like ability to more with the time or the punkish tendency to make their ultimate statement with one or two records and then stop, leaving well enough alone.

This line gets all the more blurred with questions of authenticity and originality. The sewing machine as a metaphor of technology is interesting as it is one of the oldest pieces of household automation still around. To actually use such an old-fashioned, noisy, complicated bit of technology at home these days is to be interested in the unique, the personal and the individual, to be against the mechanised uniformity that the sewing machine supposedly represents.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

quack said:


> This is a very romantically tinged idea, the reaction against perceived mechanisation and a attempt to find a more authentic, personal quality. The new technologies of the industrial revolution promised a very different future and were often sold on the idea of uniformity and dependability. Then there were backlashes against the technology and people once more craved the individuality of the artisan's work. The same kind of reversals came in the 1920s and 1950s with increases in automation and people eager to get the same quality consumer goods as everyone else, then people instead valuing the hand made uniqueness of items. An earlier, Victorian, reaction against the manufactured would be the arts and crafts movement.
> 
> Music follows a similar path with people like Vivaldi, Bach, Telemann, Haydn and Mozart prised for there ability to produce more of the same, again and again at a consistently high standard and then a reaction against that with the romantic composers feeling the need to hand make their works, less to be consumed and more with the idea of being cherished. They became luxury consumer items with composers producing a handful of symphonies, or a small number of piano sonatas (as has been noted recently). Beethoven really is a transitional figure in this sense as he produced plenty of sonatas, quartets and song settings, along the Haydn model, but relatively few of works he might have wished to be remembered by.
> 
> ...


With a treadle sewing machine, you can sew without being dependent upon electricity, ditto for that acoustic guitar vs. one you have to plug in, or an acoustic piano vs. a digital one, or knowing how to hand-write music so you don't need a computer, or...


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

quack said:


> This is a very romantically tinged idea, the reaction against perceived mechanisation and a attempt to find a more authentic, personal quality. The new technologies of the industrial revolution promised a very different future and were often sold on the idea of uniformity and dependability. Then there were backlashes against the technology and people once more craved the individuality of the artisan's work. The same kind of reversals came in the 1920s and 1950s with increases in automation and people eager to get the same quality consumer goods as everyone else, then people instead valuing the hand made uniqueness of items. An earlier, Victorian, reaction against the manufactured would be the arts and crafts movement.
> 
> Music follows a similar path with people like Vivaldi, Bach, Telemann, Haydn and Mozart prised for there ability to produce more of the same, again and again at a consistently high standard and then a reaction against that with the romantic composers feeling the need to hand make their works, less to be consumed and more with the idea of being cherished. They became luxury consumer items with composers producing a handful of symphonies, or a small number of piano sonatas (as has been noted recently). Beethoven really is a transitional figure in this sense as he produced plenty of sonatas, quartets and song settings, along the Haydn model, but relatively few of works he might have wished to be remembered by.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I was gonna say, only I would have made reference to Marshall McLuhan. :lol:


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Andreas said:


> To me, "sewing machine" mainly implies that the music is made by the hands, not by the head, much less by the heart. The composer simply knows certain patterns and formulas and thus can endlessly fabricate musical matter without much imaginative effort.
> 
> Simon Sechter, Bruckner's counterpoint teacher, wrote close to 6000 fugues in his life.
> 
> I would think people who apply this term to Haydn, Mozart or even Vivaldi and Bach simply prefer a very different kind of music.


"Endlessly" being the operative word.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Taggart & I use the term 'hairdressing music' for the smooth 19th century classical stuff I used to hear while I was having my hair cut in the 1970s.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

PetrB said:


> With a treadle sewing machine, you can sew without being dependent upon electricity, ditto for that acoustic guitar vs. one you have to plug in, or an acoustic piano vs. a digital one, or *knowing how to hand-write music so you don't need a computer*, or...


Good god, man, you're obsessed.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Good god, man, you're obsessed.


Only when and as needed. Besides, others have a true corner on the obsessed market


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Never apologize. Never explain. (Genghis Khan, _Leadership for Modern Managers_, channeled talks at the Harvard Business School, 1998)


Lol. Consider this stolen.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Originally Posted by KenOC 
Never apologize. Never explain. 
(Genghis Khan, Leadership for Modern Managers, channeled talks at the Harvard Business School, 1998)



brianvds said:


> Lol. Consider this stolen.


_Love_ the "Channeled talks at the Harvard Business School, 1998" Precious


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bossholes channeling bossholes...


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> Bossholes channeling bossholes...


_Genghis Khan as a business model? Freakin' Awesome!_


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

PetrB said:


> _Genghis Khan as a business model? Freakin' Awesome!_


No surpirse I would say there are many disciplines and relatives......
Benghis Phan BP
Genghis Mhan GM
Benghis Hhan PB BHPB
Renghis Ohan I tinto
Eenghis xhan on

the list goes on


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> No surpirse I would say there are many disciplines and relatives......
> Benghis Phan BP
> Genghis Mhan GM
> Benghis Hhan PB BHPB
> ...


Just like Alph ...

Not to mention Kubla Khan and his summer palace


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Re: Genghis Khan: Donald Trump dares not fire him.


----------

