# Arvo Pärt



## Sid James

*Arvo Pärt* (born 11 September 1935 in Paide, Järva County, Estonia) is an Estonian classical composer. Pärt works in a minimalist style that employs tintinnabulation and hypnotic repetitions influenced by the intellectual counterpoint elements of European jazz, and is generally placed within European-American classical post-modernism.

Continuing struggles with Soviet officials led him to emigrate in 1980 with his wife and their two sons. Pärt lived first in Vienna, Austria, where he took Austrian citizenship, and then re-located to Berlin, Germany, where he still lives.

(From _Wikipedia_)

I've just listened to some of Part's orchestral works & I especially like the bell sounds. His music seems to be very organic, growing by accretion, like something in nature. So, if you like big climaxes & contrasts, you may be dissapointed. But his more understated style rewards perceptive listeneres, I think.

I've also not heard any of his larger scale choral works, which are a major part of his output. I've seen in one of the choral music threads how people have enjoyed these.

I invite listeners who are maybe more informed about him than I, to contribute to this discussion. What are your favourite works, recordings, & have you seen any of his music performed live, by any chance?


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## danae

Arvo Paert is one of my favourites. His best known work, "Spiegel im Spiegel" is really hard to resist. Other favourites: Tabula Rasa, Fur Alina, Fratres. I've heard a lot more, but no titles come to mind right now.


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## Sid James

Danae, I also know & like those works you mention. I love how he takes old forms, like the Concerto Grosso in _Tabula Rasa _& the piano concerto in _Lamentate_ & reinvigorates them. In his hands they don't sound old & stale, but exciting & fresh. This is why I think people who like the Neo-Classicists of the 1930's will like & understand his orchestral works pretty well...


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## danae

I don't know if you're interested in contemporary dance, but it's worth to see what choreographer Mats Ek has done with Arvo Paert's music. Look at this. I think you're gonna like it.


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## andruini

I love Part's music. Apart from the already mentioned I really love Arbos, Stabat Mater, Te Deum and the Berliner Messe. He's the composer I perhaps connect with the most of the modern ones.. I like how he takes time to sink in the sounds.. And what sounds he creates! His music has that pure spiritual quality that I so love of early music like Tallis' and Byrd's.


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## danae

Look at this too. Trust me.


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## Mirror Image

I need to get into Part's music. I know, I know...I said I don't like Minimalism, but I should give his music a chance.

His choral works sound amazing or at least from the audio samples I heard they sounded that way.


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## Sid James

Although the article labels him as a minimalist, there are many more elements to his style, including an interest in counterpoint, both from classical and other (eg. jazz) sources. I've mostly only heard his orchestral output, so there's the other (choral) side to him that I'm yet to delve into...


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## Scott Good

I'm a big fan of Arvo Part - music and man.

What is important to note is that he arrived at his style - it took year of experimentation in more complex and modern esoteric styles for him to discover what it was that was most important for him.

I have heard quite a bit of his music live, have programmed works (including a performance of Tabula Rasa this year with amazing choreography by Barbara Bouget and the Kokoro dance company - that was a special performance!) I also met him at the Winnipeg New Music Festival back in 1998, where many of his work were performed, including Arbos, Fratres, and one of my absolute favorites, "Sarah Was Ninety Years Old" performed by the Hilliard ensemble. It was a great experience to meet him - very soft spoken, and kind - and very humble. I think he was quite taken when coming to Central Canada in the darkest days of winter, that concert after concert was filled with adoring fans of all ages.

I had an interesting discussion with Hilliard tenor Rogers Covey-Crump about singing his music. When I asked why he was the only living composer they had worked with, the answer was simply that his was the only music that could be sung in tune!

There is something to be learned by this statement.

I also highly recommend Miserere, and Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten + all listed above.

This is a clip if him discussing the composing of Fur Alina (another fine work), and reveals much about his compositional practice, and personality.


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## Dedrater

Mirror Image said:


> I need to get into Part's music. I know, I know...I said I don't like Minimalism, but I should give his music a chance.
> 
> His choral works sound amazing or at least from the audio samples I heard they sounded that way.


My exposure to Part is probably somewhat limited, but a choral composition that is pretty well-known is the _Te Deum._ My favorite from that is the Agnus Dei, which I think is one of the better moments in modern music.


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## Mirror Image

Dedrater said:


> My exposure to Part is probably somewhat limited, but a choral composition that is pretty well-known is the _Te Deum._ My favorite from that is the Agnus Dei, which I think is one of the better moments in modern music.


Well kudos for the recommendation, Dedrater. I will check that work out.


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## Praine

His work is really no better than the other shallow minimalists we know of (Glass, Reich, Adams, etc). It's quite dull to tell you the truth. I will back my opinion by referring to the video that Scott Good recommended. Here, we see what Arvo Pärt likes creating, and it shows us his lack of musical knowledge. Like a child trying to write a 'serious piece'. 

"You hear this voice? It sounds quite neutral. You hear this other voice? It also sounds neutral. When you put it together... BAM, SLAM, RIGGADAM, you have very interesting serious music!"

I gave him another shot by checking one of the videos that danae recommended, and it doesn't display any musical merit whatsoever. Plain, boring, minimalist drivel. I would suggest that if you're not one of the audience members that accept this kind of stuff as intriguing 'artwork', move along. You hopefully never will.


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## Conor71

I havent listened to Arvo Part for quite a while but his Spiegel Im Spiegel and Fur Alina were among the first Classical CD's I bought. Some of his works are absolutely beautiful - my list of favourites from this composer would include the above + Berliner Messe (especially for the amazing Sanctus section), Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten, Tabula Rasa, Summa and Festina Lente.


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## Mirror Image

Reign of Praine said:


> His work is really no better than the other shallow minimalists we know of (Glass, Reich, Adams, etc). It's quite dull to tell you the truth. I will back my opinion by referring to the video that Scott Good recommended. Here, we see what Arvo Pärt likes creating, and it shows us his lack of musical knowledge. Like a child trying to write a 'serious piece'.
> 
> "You hear this voice? It sounds quite neutral. You hear this other voice? It also sounds neutral. When you put it together... BAM, SLAM, RIGGADAM, you have very interesting serious music!"
> 
> I gave him another shot by checking one of the videos that danae recommended, and it doesn't display any musical merit whatsoever. Plain, boring, minimalist drivel. I would suggest that if you're not one of the audience members that accept this kind of stuff as intriguing 'artwork', move along. You hopefully never will.


Yeah, that video wasn't very interesting at all...lol. In fact, it was quite dull and boring, but I imagine hanging around him wouldn't be a great experience anyway. I would much rather have hung out with Mussorgsky, because he was a drunk and drunks always know how to have a good time. 

Anyway, my problem with composers like Part is there's not much variation in the music he composes. There's no kind of inner contrasts or struggles happening. I mean I can try and be positive about him, but there's really not much for me to be positive about.

Maybe one day, I'll get around to getting some of Part's music, but I don't forsee this happening for a long time. I'm pretty much stuck in late-Romanticism and early 20th Century periods. It seems this period produced some of the best music or at least in my opinion it has.


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## Praine

Mirror Image said:


> Yeah, that video wasn't very interesting at all...lol. In fact, it was quite dull and boring, but I imagine hanging around him wouldn't be a great experience anyway. I would much rather have hung out with Mussorgsky, because he was a drunk and drunks always know how to have a good time.
> 
> Anyway, my problem with composers like Part is there's not much variation in the music he composes. There's no kind of inner contrasts or struggles happening. I mean I can try and be positive about him, but there's really not much for me to be positive about.
> 
> Maybe one day, I'll get around to getting some of Part's music, but I don't forsee this happening for a long time. I'm pretty much stuck in late-Romanticism and early 20th Century periods. It seems this period produced some of the best music or at least in my opinion it has.


You see, I have this belief that modern composers should be using the musical developments brought in the late-Romantic era/20th Century to their advantage and maybe even trying to FURTHER those developments. However, it always seems like most modern composers go for "the easy way out" and compose simple music for the simple minds of this generation. A true work of musical art should encompass the blood, sweat and tears of that composer who is *genuinely trying*, with every stitch of his ability, to make some legitimate music.

These minimalist composers just aren't genuinely tring and they try to justify their shallow music with "deep meanings" that they attach themselves. Sorry, but I'm just not _feeling it_.


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## Mirror Image

Reign of Praine said:


> You see, I have this belief that modern composers should be using the musical developments brought in the late-Romantic era/20th Century to their advantage and maybe even trying to FURTHER those developments. However, it always seems like most modern composers go for "the easy way out" and compose simple music for the simple minds of this generation. A true work of musical art should encompass the blood, sweat and tears of that composer who is *genuinely trying*, with every stitch of his ability, to make some legitimate music.
> 
> These minimalist composers just aren't genuinely tring and they try to justify their shallow music with "deep meanings" that they attach themselves. Sorry, but I'm just not _feeling it_.


I saw an interview with Steve Reich a couple of years ago on my local PBS station where he talked about his music to great length and what he was trying to accomplish. I remember actually laughing when I heard an excerpt from his "Music for 18 Musicians" and then the way he was trying to come up some deep philosophical theory behind this music. I mean if anyone has heard Reich knows there's nothing relatively deep going on in his music, especially if you're just coming from a steady diet of Brahms and Mahler. 

There are always two kinds of people when it comes to this music anyway: people who love it, people who hate it. I just think I'm to the point where I've given up on modern classical music or even trying to figure it out. I mean it's just too "out there" for me.

I'll stick to what I know and what I like, but I'm still on the the lookout for more obscure Romantic and early 20th Century composers.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> Anyway, my problem with composers like Part is there's not much variation in the music he composes. There's no kind of inner contrasts or struggles happening.


There's plenty of contrast in Part's music. You just have to be a more perceptive listener, which is what I keep saying in these threads on contemporary composers. Of course, as I suggested, he doesn't just lay it out for you straightforwardly like some composers. You have to do some perceptive listening to gain real insight. That's why I disagree with his music being labelled as shallow by some people.

For example, in _Tabula rasa_ he contrasts a quicker & dissonant first movement with a slower, more lyrical second. The thing holding these contrasting movements together are the two solo violinists gliding over the orchestral textures & layers, which are enhanced by the bell sounds of the prepared piano.

I'd also argue that the much more recent piano concerto _Lamentate_ offers plenty of contrasts, from louder brass passages to the quiet, sometimes childlike, piano solo.

I also think that his music is much more free & organic than that of people like Steve Reich. Part's music reminds me of the process of accretion & ebbs & flows found in nature. It's less about mathematics on a computer and more about real physical growth & variation...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> There's plenty of contrast in Part's music. You just have to be a more perceptive listener, which is what I keep saying in these threads on contemporary composers. Of course, as I suggested, he doesn't just lay it out for you straightforwardly like some composers. You have to do some perceptive listening to gain real insight. That's why I disagree with his music being labelled as shallow by some people.


I think I'm a pretty perceptive listener, but I also have musical values that I feel very strongly about. I'm not about to abandon what I believe. I mean something can get as abstract as it wants, but if I don't feel anything from it and if it totally abandons harmony, rhythm, melody, and structure, then I get pretty lost. For me, there has to be something that pulls me in whether it's interesting an interesting rhythm or harmony, but for it to keep my interest it has to make sense to me. People can call me narrow-minded all they want, but the only way I can honestly get something out of the music is if all the elements are in place and of course I feel something from it.

It's like I was telling you about atonal composers. For me, atonality is an orchestral "effect." It's a way of building tension, but that's a discussion for another thread.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> ...I mean something can get as abstract as it wants, but if I don't feel anything from it and if it totally abandons harmony, rhythm, melody, and structure, then I get pretty lost...


Every orchestral piece I've heard from Part has these elements. As I said, he is just much more of an organic composer than any other I have heard. His pieces evolve like something found in nature. They have these gradual build ups of ideas. I'd say that his older works from the 1970's & '80's have more structure than the more recent ones I've heard, but his later revisitings of old forms - like the piano concerto_ Lamentate _- are very interesting & have to be heard IN FULL to be appreciated...


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## Guest

Scott Good said:


> I'm a big fan of Arvo Part - music and man.
> 
> What is important to note is that he arrived at his style - it took year of experimentation in more complex and modern esoteric styles for him to discover what it was that was most important for him,
> I had an interesting discussion with Hilliard tenor Rogers Covey-Crump about singing his music. When I asked why he was the only living composer they had worked with, the answer was simply that his was the only music that could be sung in tune!
> 
> There is something to be learned by this statement.


Scott I agree completly, He is one of a very few living composers that I like enough to pay full price for his CDs, his early work was IMHO a dreadful noise but he has now produced music that is extremely sensitive and does not offend the ears. I recently acquired his 4th Sym "Los Angeles" very impressive and good use of percussion. The CD Beatus is superb choral music along with the Berliner Messe, De Profundis etc I could go on but you will know the pieces as well as I do.


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## kg4fxg

*New to Arvo Part*

Sorry, I am new to Arvo Part. I have only one album and a few scattered pieces on other albums.

I think I read about him on this forum before and jumped in at this album to see what his style was like, I like it. As MI said, so many composers to study. I have not gotten all that far with Part yet.

Thanks


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## Scott Good

Reign of Praine said:


> It's quite dull to tell you the truth.


Gee, thanks for being so honest.

Why don't people who dislike a composer, stay off their guestbook. What is the problem here?

Ya just feel like dropping by and reading...oops, I mean telling us where it's at? Such original criticism, wow, never heard that before. It's boring and repetitive...ya di da. No musicality...bla bla.

Why don't you go like what you like, and let others share what they like, ok?

What a waste of time...


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## Dedrater

Mirror Image said:


> I saw an interview with Steve Reich a couple of years ago on my local PBS station where he talked about his music to great length and what he was trying to accomplish. I remember actually laughing when I heard an excerpt from his "Music for 18 Musicians" and then the way he was trying to come up some deep philosophical theory behind this music. I mean if anyone has heard Reich knows there's nothing relatively deep going on in his music, especially if you're just coming from a steady diet of Brahms and Mahler.


Things like _Clapping Music_ are quite pretentious. Aside from simplicity, though, I've never understood the comparisons between Part and Reich. While Part sometimes sounds generic and soundtracky, he has some quality pieces here and there. Reich was the Andy Warhol of music.


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## Guest

Do I get the feeling that the metal heads are going to attack?? if so lets hope they actually have something of substance to say


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## danae

Dedrater said:


> Things like _Clapping Music_ are quite pretentious. Aside from simplicity, though, I've never understood the comparisons between Part and Reich. While Part sometimes sounds generic and soundtracky, he has some quality pieces here and there. Reich was the Andy Warhol of music.


Actually Reich is considered (also by me) the most complex of the minimalists. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's also a good composer. Complexity per se doesn't result in great music. But in Reich's case it does. If you sit through "Vermont Counterpoint" fro instance and observe how one line that has been repeated for many times offers its place to another that seems to emerge out of nowhere, even though it was there in the beginning, you'll have an idea of out true minimalism is.The same applies for "Drumming".


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## Sid James

Scott Good said:


> Why don't people who dislike a composer, stay off their guestbook. What is the problem here?


I agree with you 100%...

& *kg4fxg* that's a great album you have there - it's the perfect introduction to Part's music. Some people actually say that it contains his best music composed to date, although I think that his more recent pieces are also interesting.

By the way, the best label for Part is ECM, especially if you want to hear his latest efforts. They're a bit pricey, and aren't exactly filled with music (total time might be say 45 minutes), but the quality is superb...


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## Mirror Image

Scott Good said:


> Gee, thanks for being so honest.
> 
> Why don't people who dislike a composer, stay off their guestbook. What is the problem here?
> 
> Ya just feel like dropping by and reading...oops, I mean telling us where it's at? Such original criticism, wow, never heard that before. It's boring and repetitive...ya di da. No musicality...bla bla.
> 
> Why don't you go like what you like, and let others share what they like, ok?
> 
> What a waste of time...


A composer guestbook is open to anyone who wants to share their thoughts of a composer regardless of if its positive or negative. I don't see anything wrong with someone sharing their opinion of a composer. He didn't attack anyone personally, he simply just stated the way he felt. He should be commended for that instead of being told to go somewhere else. Be thankful he's listening to classical music instead of something like metal or rap.

I give my opinion all the time regardless of what people think. I'm not after approval from anyone, I would just like to give my opinion without somebody telling to go away.

Somebody stopped by my Sir Hubert Parry composer guestbook the other day and told me Parry bores them to tears. I didn't tell them to go away, but I did ask them why they're so bored with Parry's music and what have they heard by him.

I think a little more tolerance for other people goes a long way. Everybody has an opinion and he has a right to voice it anyway he sees fit as long as it doesn't go against forum guidelines.


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## Sid James

I just doubt seriously that people who criticise music they don't like actually make the effort to sit down and listen to a cd of said music. A five minute grab on youtube or something like that doesn't do justice to any music, really, especially when we're talking about the more complex stuff like this...

& I agree with Scott Good's suggestion that these people don't show any knowledge of the music. Like comparing Part with Reich is just about as useful as comparing apples & oranges, to use a well worn analogy...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I just doubt seriously that people who criticise music they don't like actually make the effort to sit down and listen to a cd of said music. A five minute grab on youtube or something like that doesn't give justice to any music, really...


How do you know what a person has listened to and what they haven't listened to? How do you know what effort was or wasn't made? You don't know, you're just speculating.

Again, tolerance of others goes a long way. There's nothing wrong with somebody dismissing a composer. People dismiss bands, musicians, grocery stores, brand names, retail chains, etc. everyday. I think a person has a right to dismiss a composer even if they've only heard 5 minutes or 40 hours worth of that composer's music.

He had every right to give his opinion just like you have every right to give your opinion.


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## Sid James

Part is a composer whose musical language is quite complex & different from that of other composers. His method of writing harmonies is very dependent on the listener staying the course for the whole work, because his compositions grow organically. I can't think of, for example, listening to the first movement of _Tabula rasa_, without listening to the second movement. The two are inextricably linked to form a tight, cohesive unit. One is dark, the other light - you can't have the ying without the yang.

So if people don't want to understand this, fine, but making value judgements like it's unemotional or boring only shows how these listeners have not made a reasonable effort to come to grips with these concepts, which are deeply inherent in the music. I think it just shows that they are listening superficially and not perceptively.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Part is a composer whose musical language is quite complex & different from that of other composers. His method of writing harmonies is very dependent on the listener staying the course for the whole work, because his compositions grow organically. I can't think of, for example, listening to the first movement of _Tabula rasa_, without listening to the second movement. The two are inextricably linked to form a tight, cohesive unit. One is dark, the other light - you can't have the ying without the yang.
> 
> So if people don't want to understand this, fine, but making value judgements like it's unemotional or boring only shows how these listeners have not made a reasonable effort to come to grips with these concepts, which are deeply inherent in the music. I think it just shows that they are listening superficially and not perceptively.


Again, you're speculating on how much time someone has spent getting to know Part's music.

Did you ever think about that perhaps somebody just doesn't like the way Part's music sounds? Forget compositional techniques, the harmonies, the melodies, and just think about the overall sound of a composer's work.

Maybe Reign of Paine just felt like the music doesn't go anywhere and doesn't serve much purpose for him.

It's called musical taste. Not everybody likes the same composers and I'm thankful they don't.

In fact, when somebody tells me they don't like a composer I do, I like that composer even more knowing that at least I understand them.

Let people dismiss composers all they want to, it's their right.


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## Mirror Image

Anyway, getting back to Part's music. Has anyone heard his new recording on ECM? The audio samples sounded pretty good actually.

I haven't heard Part's music, so I can't give my honest assessment of his music, but it seems to me from what I've read is there seems to be a lack of variety in his pieces. Is this true? If no, then give me an example of a piece with a lot of dynamics and intensity in it.


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## Sid James

Well, as I said in one of my posts earlier, his music generally lacks big climaxes, but it doesn't lack contrasts.

The first movement of _Tabula rasa_, which is basically a concerto for two violins, string orchestra & prepared piano, is marked _Ludus_ & does have some quite dissonant sounds. Parts of this remind me of people coming towards me in the street. It has a certain intensity. In contrast to that, the second movement, _Silentuim_, is much quieter & gentle. The bell sounds give the music a meditative feel, which I quite like. It's like seeing things in slow motion. This has been touted by many to be his greatest work.

Similarly, the more recent piano concerto _Lamentate_ has some loud brass passages, and these are contrasted with the somewhat childlike piano solos. It's quite an engaging and fresh take on a genre which doesn't always sound interesting if done by composers today...

So I'd argue that he is one of the most interesting composers around today...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I'd argue that he is one of the most interesting composers around today...


I'd argue that Delius was one of the most interesting composers around in his time, but many people not only on this forum but abroad haven't accepted this reality yet.


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## Guest

Andre said:


> Part is a composer whose musical language is quite complex & different from that of other composers. His method of writing harmonies is very dependent on the listener staying the course for the whole work,.


I do not think his music is at all complex, he did stray in the early days but now his music is easily accessible to most people, that is why he is played and sung so much. IMO of course


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## Sid James

What I was trying to say is that Part has a totally different approach to more traditional composers & this can be challenging to some. Hence some of those above, who think his music is boring and without contrast. Of course, these people haven't really made an effort to listen to the music (that's what I read between the lines, anyway) so their criticism has to be taken with a huge grain of salt...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> What I was trying to say is that Part has a totally different approach to more traditional composers & this can be challenging to some. Hence some of those above, who think his music is boring and without contrast. Of course, these people haven't really made an effort to listen to the music (that's what I read between the lines, anyway) so their criticism has to be taken with a huge grain of salt...


So anyone who has an opposing viewpoint to yours is wrong and has no idea what they're talking about?

Just because you like something, doesn't mean the rest of us do.


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## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> So anyone who has an opposing viewpoint to yours is wrong and has no idea what they're talking about?
> 
> Just because you like something, doesn't mean the rest of us do.


In my posts, I have commented & reflected on my actual experiences of Part's music. I haven't made sweeping generalisations or judgements based on supposition. This is all I expect from others who evaluate a composer's music. I think this makes perfect sense, but if you are almost ideologically oppossed to a certain composer or style, it won't make any difference. You'll just go on judging music without giving it a real chance, and that's your issue, not mine or Part's (or Martin's, seeing the same thing happened on that thread) for that matter...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> In my posts, I have commented & reflected on my actual experiences of Part's music. I haven't made sweeping generalisations or judgements based on supposition. This is all I expect from others who evaluate a composer's music. I think this makes perfect sense, but if you are almost ideologically oppossed to a certain composer or style, it won't make any difference. You'll just go on judging music without giving it a real chance, and that's your issue, not mine or Part's (or Martin's, seeing the same thing happened on that thread) for that matter...


Actually, I heard "Summa" and "Tabula Rasa" on AOL Radio today and I was actually quite bored. The music just didn't do anything for me. There was nothing remotely interesting about it to me. Am I wrong that I gave something a chance and I was completely bored with it?

We all have opinions, Andre, you're entitled to yours, and I'm certainly entitled to mine. I find Part's music to be quite boring to me.

I think the difference between you and me is very simple: I'm not afraid to tell somebody I dislike a composer's music. If music doesn't move me, then I have no use for it. Certainly you can understand this, if not, then that's really not my problem.


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## danae

Sorry to but in MI, but I thought you only dismissed composers after having heard their music. This time you did so before hearing any of Paert's music, as you say in a previous post.


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## Mirror Image

danae said:


> Sorry to but in MI, but I thought you only dismissed composers after having heard their music. This time you did so before hearing any of Paert's music, as you say in a previous post.


Oh well...that's how it goes.


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## World Violist

I really don't like how people say Part is minimalist. I mean, it's like saying tomatoes are vegetables or something. Sure, they have characteristics of vegetables, but there is so much more to them than the generic vegetable-ness.

I've played Spiegel im Spiegel and Fur Alina. Both are utterly entrancing. I really must get some of his CDs someday. It's hypnotic music. I've listened to some on Youtube. The Elegy to Benjamin Britten is particularly moving. It's so simple, but it has so many undercurrents of raw emotion that it's impossible for me not to love.


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## Guest

World Violist said:


> I've played Spiegel im Spiegel and Fur Alina. Both are utterly entrancing. I really must get some of his CDs someday. It's hypnotic music. I've listened to some on Youtube. The Elegy to Benjamin Britten is particularly moving. It's so simple, but it has so many undercurrents of raw emotion that it's impossible for me not to love.


I have a CD of Alina which was highly recommended. Vladimir Spivakov-Violin>Sergej Bezrodny-Piano
Dietmar Schwalke-Cello>Alexander Malter>Piano, if you can listen to that before you purchase any other,


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## danae

World Violist said:


> I really don't like how people say Part is minimalist. I mean, it's like saying tomatoes are vegetables or something. Sure, they have characteristics of vegetables, but there is so much more to them than the generic vegetable-ness.


Hurray from me WV! Very well said.


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I really don't like how people say Part is minimalist. I mean, it's like saying tomatoes are vegetables or something. Sure, they have characteristics of vegetables, but there is so much more to them than the generic vegetable-ness.


You don't like how he's referred to as a minimalist? Get used to it. He'll be referred to as minimalist for as long as there are history books and the associated press.

Perhaps he's not a minimalist in the traditional sense that Reich, Adams, and Glass are, but it's easy to throw this category onto him as his music is very sparse.


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## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> You don't like how he's referred to as a minimalist? Get used to it. He'll be referred to as minimalist for as long as there are history books and the associated press.
> 
> Perhaps he's not a minimalist in the traditional sense that Reich, Adams, and Glass are, but it's easy to throw this category onto him as his music is very sparse.


The sparseness of his music is a result of his study of the Renaissance masters. That's really all there is to it. People labeling him as minimalist is just about like calling Palestrina or Josquin minimalist, despite the fact that they lived five hundred years earlier. Part is more or less a Renaissance-style composer in the 20th-21st century; that he's an anachronism shouldn't make him labeled under a 20th-century label. He's merely taking an old concept and reapplying it in a modern style, and it's actually profoundly non-minimalist. True, there isn't development or motion in a conventional sense, but it is still full of motion and life. More akin to a gently flowing river than to clockwork. Natural to the extreme.


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## Sid James

I agree that it's somewhat misleading to heap Part in with the other minimalists (especially the American ones, who are completely different). Part's music is all about reviving old modes in a modern way, as WV argues...


----------



## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> The sparseness of his music is a result of his study of the Renaissance masters. That's really all there is to it. People labeling him as minimalist is just about like calling Palestrina or Josquin minimalist, despite the fact that they lived five hundred years earlier. Part is more or less a Renaissance-style composer in the 20th-21st century; that he's an anachronism shouldn't make him labeled under a 20th-century label. He's merely taking an old concept and reapplying it in a modern style, and it's actually profoundly non-minimalist. True, there isn't development or motion in a conventional sense, but it is still full of motion and life. More akin to a gently flowing river than to clockwork. Natural to the extreme.


You can believe what you want to about Part. I find his music quite boring harmonically, rhythmically, and melodically.


----------



## andruini

Adams is not a minimalist!!!
*weeps*


----------



## Sid James

World Violist said:


> ...True, there isn't development or motion in a conventional sense, but it is still full of motion and life. More akin to a gently flowing river than to clockwork. Natural to the extreme...


That's a very good description of Part's music. I agree that his style is very organic. It reminds me of motion filming which shows a plant growing, etc. It's almost as if you're in a state of suspended animation in parts, the ideas build up slowly & gently. As I said, he's one of the best composers working today...


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> As I said, he's one of the best composers working today...


I think that's purely subjective and opinion doesn't equate to fact.


----------



## Sid James

Mirror Image said:


> I think that's purely subjective and opinion doesn't equate to fact.


Well, listen to his recent piano concerto _Lamentate_ & see if you don't make that conclusion yourself?

His work seems to be about the transience and fragility of our existence. These are big themes, but his music - although profound - never seems dogmatic. It's very easy to absorb in a couple of listenings. I'm glad ECM is issuing his latest works constantly. It's very easy to get hold of some of Part's more recent efforts if you want to...


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> Well, listen to his recent piano concerto _Lamentate_ & see if you don't make that conclusion yourself?
> 
> His work seems to be about the transience and fragility of our existence. These are big themes, but his music - although profound - never seems dogmatic. It's very easy to absorb in a couple of listenings. I'm glad ECM is issuing his latest works constantly. It's very easy to get hold of some of Part's more recent efforts if you want to...


I guess my problem with Part is that his music falls too easily on the ears and doesn't offer me any kind of harmonic challenge, so I got quite bored listening to "Summa" and "Tabula Rasa" the other day. It just seems to go nowhere.

I mean I'm sorry I just don't see what the big attraction to his music is, but it's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way about his music. There are a lot of people who dislike it.


----------



## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> There are a lot of people who dislike it.


That's more or less the mark of greatness anyway. At the premiere of Richard Strauss' Don Juan, half the crowd cheered and half booed, which is how Strauss knew he had made it. Thus, Arvo Part's highly polarized reception is really a good thing for him.


----------



## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> That's more or less the mark of greatness anyway. At the premiere of Richard Strauss' Don Juan, half the crowd cheered and half booed, which is how Strauss knew he had made it. Thus, Arvo Part's highly polarized reception is really a good thing for him.


Please explain how half of a crowd cheering and the half booing is a measure of greatness. I'm baffled by your logic.

People got up and left at the premiere of "The Rite of Spring." Why would a crowd booing or cheering constitute greatness?


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> People got up and left at the premiere of "The Rite of Spring." Why would a crowd booing or cheering constitute greatness?


Sorry to butt in "*Beethovens 5th*"


----------



## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> Please explain how half of a crowd cheering and the half booing is a measure of greatness. I'm baffled by your logic.
> 
> People got up and left at the premiere of "The Rite of Spring." Why would a crowd booing or cheering constitute greatness?


It's really more about how the composer takes it, really. If the crowd is booing and the composer is adamant about the piece, it's entirely different than if it's constantly popular. Every great composer more or less goes through periods where a crowd of people don't like his music, but it endures anyway because it's great music. Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Strauss, Mahler, Wagner, Sibelius, Berlioz, etc. all had trouble whether after their deaths or not. (...I'm sure Mozart had a down period of his own at some point... how couldn't he?)


----------



## Romantic Geek

Really getting into Part's music right now. It's simplicity is striking, his melodies are haunting, and harmonies are refreshing. Summa and Fratres are definitely high quality works. 

I love how he's reorchestrated them for different ensembles too. I'd say out of the living composers now - probably among the best and most influential.


----------



## tdc

I'm quite enamored by his Tabula Rasa and listening to it at this very moment.


----------



## Guest

He is one of the masters of minimalism! ALINA ?


----------



## Manxfeeder

If you get the chance, read Paul Hillier's book Arvo Part. It helped me understand his tintinnabuli technique.


----------



## Edward Elgar

Mirror Image said:


> Please explain how half of a crowd cheering and the half booing is a measure of greatness. I'm baffled by your logic.
> 
> People got up and left at the premiere of "The Rite of Spring." Why would a crowd booing or cheering constitute greatness?


Only a composer knows the value of their work.

A mixed reception is good. Let me explain with equations

Crowd cheering = pandering to an audience by creating banal and disposable rubbish

Crowd booing = showing contempt for an audience by creating music that lacks any discernible merit

Mixed reception = the dumb-a**es don't like it because the music is too inventive and courageous, the intellectuals/thoughtful people like it for exactly the same reason.

I call it the Goldilocks co-efficient


----------



## MilanStevanovich

Estonian composer, minimalist. One of the most profound composer of sacred music, today.
He developed his own tonal technique which he calls 'tintinnabuli'.








As one of the most radical representatives of the so-called 'Soviet Avant-garde', Pärt's work passed through a profound evolutionary process. Pärt himself says of his compositional point of departure, "It's enough to play just one note beautifully".
Pärt's music does not call for virtuosity.


----------



## Manxfeeder

MilanStevanovich said:


> Pärt himself says of his compositional point of departure, "It's enough to play just one note beautifully".
> Pärt's music does not call for virtuosity.


True; it calls more for concentration. A piece like Fur Alina is deceptively simple.

I've been interested in his journey from 12-tone music to his sparer style, because you know he can write noise like the best of them, but he dwells more with silence.

If anyone wants to understand his style, Paul Hiller's book is very helpful.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I have three discs of his work but I haven't played them often enough yet for most of the music to take root. The exception is the Cantus in memory of Benjamin Britten which I found totally absorbing from first listen - that tolling bell is unforgettable.


----------



## MilanStevanovich

Maybe it's just me, but i find Magnificat the most extraordinary.


----------



## Manxfeeder

MilanStevanovich said:


> Maybe it's just me, but i find Magnificat the most extraordinary.


I'm listening on YouTube; as one man said, "music in time and out of time,"


----------



## Tapkaara

I quite enjoy this composer. I am not a fan of sacred music in the sense that I do not ascribe any religious meaning to it, but I can enjoy good music for its own sake. Arvo composes very good music: mysterious, minimalist and meditative.


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## kv466

I too enjoy his works...introduced to his music while in Estonia, it was the perfect setting to understand where he was coming from while composing such sounds.


----------



## Aramis

MilanStevanovich said:


> "It's enough to play just one note beautifully".


Then why compose anything? Let's just play single notes beautifully, if it's enough.

And all those musical academies - they force young musicians to waste years of their lives to learn how to play so many things when it's enough to play one note.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Aramis said:


> Then why compose anything? Let's just play single notes beautifully, if it's enough.
> 
> And all those musical academies - they force young musicians to waste years of their lives to learn how to play so many things when it's enough to play one note.


Then you have Claude Debussy saying music is the space between the notes. Or that famous musical term falsely attributed to Anton Webern: Pensato (think about the note). Then there's Meredith Wilson's Music Man, who taught music by having his students think about playing. Yeah, it's enough to drive you crazy.


----------



## Jeremy Marchant

MilanStevanovich said:


> Pärt himself says of his compositional point of departure, "It's enough to play just one note beautifully".
> Pärt's music does not call for virtuosity.


Sorry, but that's completely untrue!

Having sung in choirs performing several of his works (_Magnificat_, _Berliner Messe_), I can assure you that singing a single note well calls for a great deal of skill and virtuosity. His music is extremely exposed - all the time - and dies the death in a routine performance which, even if technically adequate, doesn't hit the mark emotionally.



Aramis said:


> Then why compose anything? Let's just play single notes beautifully, if it's enough.
> 
> And all those musical academies - they force young musicians to waste years of their lives to learn how to play so many things when it's enough to play one note.


Because it's too hard!

Performers have to dazzle the listener with the pretty sounds and patterns (and emotions) created by having lots of notes, so it distracts them from the fact that each note is too difficult to play by itself.

Of course, the pretty sounds and patterns might actually be rather more interesting than the individual note, however well played (I didn't say I agreed with Pärt).


----------



## starthrower

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you! Most non-musicians assume that virtuosity means playing a bunch of notes fast, but that's just speed. And if the musical phrases and rhythms are straightforward, it doesn't really mean much.


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## jhar26

I have only one cd of his music. It features 'Miserere' which I find very beautiful and 'Sarah was ninety years old' which I just find boring. The climax is moving, but it can't make up for the (to my ears) twenty minutes of repetitive nothingness that precede it. 'Miserere' I like very much though.


----------



## GoneBaroque

I have around seven or so recordings of Part's music which of course offers some duplication by different artists, but what of it. I find his work to be extremely soul soothing. True most of his output is of a religious nature, but as Tapkarra wrote it is not necessary to be in tune with the religious aspect to enjoy the music for what it is; a well crafted composition. As previously mentioned the Cantus, Magnificat and Miserere are marvelous but so also is the Saint John Passion. They all invoke a sense of peace so much needed in todays world.


----------



## Manxfeeder

jhar26 said:


> I have only one cd of his music. It features 'Miserere' which I find very beautiful and 'Sarah was ninety years old' which I just find boring. The climax is moving, but it can't make up for the (to my ears) twenty minutes of repetitive nothingness that precede it. 'Miserere' I like very much though.


 I've had the same problem with Sarah. It's about waiting for a promise - symbolized by the drum, punctuated by vocal praises when the promise is affirmed - until the end, when she sings upon seeing the promise fulfilled. The five-beat drum motif is presented through various permutations.

You can tell, I've made the effort to understand it. The idea is good; I'm not sure that in actuality it works.


----------



## Sid James

I went through a bit of a phase with this guy, and other holy minimalists, a couple of years back, I created this thread (mods, can you please merge these two threads on A. Part?). -

http://www.talkclassical.com/6073-arvo-p-rt.html

I even heard his _Berliner Messe _live & I agree with Jeremy, there are some sounds in that that one doesn't hear in other music. I think I like that work, as well as his _Tabular Rasa _and the _Cantus_ the most. The _Collage and Fugue on B-A-C-H_ from his earlier period is also interesting, it sticks in my mind as being good.

When I listened to classical FM radio, Part was the most often played contemporary composer. So I heard a fair amount of his music. & to tell you the truth, I can detect very little or no stylistic development in his music over the last 30 or more years. He comes across to me as the saying "if you've heard one work, then you've heard them all." Basically, it would be good if he branched out a bit from just rehashing himself, or (like Sibelius) just go into silence. That's probably better than offering endless rehash, the carbon paper is wearing a bit thin, imo. I don't mind that he's no longer a radical but "establishment" & quite rich to boot, no doubt - just like some other composers like Philip Glass - I just don't know why he keeps on dishing out the same thing, decade after decade, it's kind of becoming old and stale, although I do like his music, it's just beginning to lack variety now, for want of a better word...


----------



## Llyranor

Wow, just got introduced me to Part this week. This might actually be the first living 'art music' composer whose works I enjoy - which is quite an achievement. What I've listened to so far: Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten, Spiegel Im Spiegel, Pilgrim's Song, Tabula Rasa, Summa, Mozart-Adagio. I'm really impressed. It brings me such calm.


----------



## eighthundredfortynine

I love Arvo Pärt. I´ve been listening to his stuff for quite some time. My favourites are his choral works, preferably performed by the Hilliard ensemble but i also have other nice recordings by Kaljuste or Järvi for example. Listening to the Berliner Messe right now and I´m just overwhelmed again.


----------



## PetrB

To me, the later works are as if one has taken all the food value out of the meal, removed all the spices, and left both the sugar -- and salt -- on the table.

I've no doubt the works are composed in utter sincerity.

The fact he 'invigorates old forms,' as does Schnittke, interests me far less if at all.

I am happy for old work in its old forms: I neither yearn for or expect those forms in modern or contemporary, nor do I care for or am particularly impressed when 'the old forms' or obvious references and reworkings of them are part of a piece - that playing around with old forms is a grave problem I have with much of Schnittke. Perhaps it is just each individual composer, but with Part and Schnittke, miles apart in musical vocabularies, I hear them as burdened with the legacy of Europe's historic past repertoire and its forms much more than hearing them as animated by them.

I have been first time seduced by the simpler 'pure' triadic harmony and harmonics produced within a cloud of overlapped straightforward descending scales. This piece is, if not noticed in the first hearing because one is distracted by that same activity, an endless sequence of step-wise descending scales. They are even and interminably the same. Once distinctly heard, that renders the pleasant effect of the 'aura' of its elemental activity moot - endless step-wise scales, even in a brief piece, are, regardless the counterpoint floating around within them, staggeringly boring.

Initially quite effective, drapes of scales, rhythmically set in 'folds,' a tolling pedal point bell and a very simple harmonic field in weft and warp. Sounds cosmetically lovely, effective: it only sounds that way Once.

Ergo: 
Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten, one time cosmetic pleasant listen. All intellectual info and pleasures, emotional impact are received in full during that first audition. 
The second time I turned it off because I heard 'nothing' but a process of endlessly descending scales in folds -- exactly why it was attractive the first time. Ergo its entire structural premise and the sound that makes it is a crashing bore. As quiet as it is in its vocabulary, I categorize that 'sensationalist,' since sensationalism by its nature can only surprise once, and that's what Part does -- certainly better than no surprises ever, but it certainly has a very brief shelf-life.

Some listeners literally revere it: supposedly reverence is integral to its existence since it is _"spiritual minimalism"*_ To those bound to liking it because it does evoke either a spiritual / religious atmosphere. [Louis Andriessen disparages this sort of minimalism, especially the Philip Glass genre, as "Hot tub and scented candle music."] Once a listener thinks that spirituality or religion are deeply associated with music, there is then no worth in discussing that music's quality. It is in another sphere best left out of discussion. -- Try and tell a Fan of John Rutter's works that they are _________ (heavy pejorative) 'not good,' or 'banal,' - after they have already been 'transported' by that music... Lol.

After auditioning several of Part's works in several eras and genres, I found that 'mode' of his moderately to predominantly present through his work, which is why it doesn't hold enough of what I consider good or interesting for me to think of it as good music.

Holding my interest once, or yours -- that is o.k. but not profound, aura of humble saintly simplicity or not, 'deep' art -- it does makes it a very 'light entertainment.' -- and if once is enough, I'm done the second time through. I'm afraid for me the sugar and salt are so mixed they cancel each other out, leaving the work 'without a taste'

[[I would not really compare Part to other European or American composers who often get dumped in the 'minimalist' basket. It is a music using minimum pitch content and harmony, and it is sometimes wrongly included under 'Minimalist,' Part is no more 'a minimalist' than is Morton Feldman, whose works I can return to repeatedly and find fresh. Both are routinely 'dumped in' with other minimalists in many texts - the better sources will make clear that a minimum of musical material is more a matter of 'sparseness,' while 'minimalism' defines other various and specific musical procedures.]]

*Who makes these offensive stylistic genre terms up? Pimply-faced Apprentice Journalists?


----------



## Moira

danae said:


> I don't know if you're interested in contemporary dance, but it's worth to see what choreographer Mats Ek has done with Arvo Paert's music. Look at this. I think you're gonna like it.


I liked this a lot. I love contemporary dance. Dada Masilo, a very talented South African choreographer and dancer did an amazing piece with Schubert's Death and the Maiden with supplementary music by Arvo Part.


----------



## Sid James

PetrB said:


> ...
> 
> Some listeners literally revere it: supposedly reverence is integral to its existence since it is _"spiritual minimalism"*_ To those bound to liking it because it does evoke either a spiritual / religious atmosphere. [Louis Andriessen disparages this sort of minimalism, especially the Philip Glass genre, as "Hot tub and scented candle music."] ...


Yeah, it does speak of that new age thing. Which I don't mind. But it's not the ONLY sort of contemporary classical around. Try tell that to radio producers and concert programmers - if it's contemporary classical on the show, it tends to be Part. Well a few years ago this was the case. I haven't checked lately, maybe they're getting better, giving more variety. That's what new music is about for me, variety, not just minimalism, and one type of it, which brings me to this -



> ...
> *Who makes these offensive stylistic genre terms up? Pimply-faced Apprentice Journalists?


It's most likely the guys in marketing. They are marketing music just like the scented candles you mention. Or massages, mud baths or stuff like that. Music as a new age kind of balm against all the bad things in the world. A cocoon? Well, music is not all like that, it's not always soothing. I'm all for easy listening, but let's call it that, call a spade a spade.

Around here it's called _HOly Minimalism_, not _Spiritual Minimalism _(haven't heard that label). I like Part's earlier stuff, before he went into rehash mode, I also like Gorecki and Tavener, but I don't like the spin-off composers now who are like rehashing rehash, saying what's been said better before.


----------



## PetrB

Sid James said:


> Yeah, it does speak of that new age thing. Which I don't mind. But it's not the ONLY sort of contemporary classical around. Try tell that to radio producers and concert programmers - if it's contemporary classical on the show, it tends to be Part. Well a few years ago this was the case. I haven't checked lately, maybe they're getting better, giving more variety. That's what new music is about for me, variety, not just minimalism, and one type of it, which brings me to this -
> 
> It's most likely the guys in marketing. They are marketing music just like the scented candles you mention. Or massages, mud baths or stuff like that. Music as a new age kind of balm against all the bad things in the world. A cocoon? Well, music is not all like that, it's not always soothing. I'm all for easy listening, but let's call it that, call a spade a spade.
> 
> Around here it's called _HOly Minimalism_, not _Spiritual Minimalism _(haven't heard that label). I like Part's earlier stuff, before he went into rehash mode, I also like Gorecki and Tavener, but I don't like the spin-off composers now who are like rehashing rehash, saying what's been said better before.


Oooh, 'Holy' -- even more difficult to criticize without being thought 'not nice.' Lol. Hash - rehash is boring, whether it is Hindemith or others nameless, who do or have given us really good music.


----------



## Cnote11

I was just planning on watching this


----------



## Guest

Very interesting C Note he has the ability to get right inside your heart and mind


----------



## GiulioCesare

Pärt is a modern genius.

I particularly like _Spiegel im Spiegel_, the purest and best example of his _tintinnabuli_.

I say he is a genius because only a genius could have come up with such a compositional technique. I mean, what mortal could have thought of having two parts, one arpeggiating tonic triads and the other one going up the diatonic scale and then down again??

A mastermind, this Pärt.


----------



## Pantheon

Although I keep saying S. Rachmaninov is my favourite composer, I wanted to leave a special message for Arvo Pärt!

I have not listened to many of his works, but so far I find it beautifully simple. 
"Für Alina" is one of the most empty, yet moving pieces I have listened to. I tried playing it the other, and I never felt so calm.

"Spiegel um Spiegel" is also a great work, combining the elegiac atmosphere created by a violin or cello and the simplicity of single keys on the piano. I always play it in the background for work!
I personally laughed when I heard Pro Et Contra part III! The cadenza is the most shocking part even though the whole piece is atonal!

I intend to listen to more works by this Estonian genius - any recommendations?


----------



## Kieran

I witnessed an extraordinary work by Arvo Part the other night: _Fratres_. It was for full orchestra, performed by the Philharmonia Orchestra, visiting from London. I always associate Arvo Part with Church music, but this was an eerie and naturalistic work, very suspenseful and tactful. I certainly recommend this to you...


----------



## Neo Romanza

Listen to _Tabula Rasa_, _Symphony No. 3_, and _In Memoriam Benjamin Britten_. As for the choral works, check out his _Te Deum_ and _Miserere_.


----------



## North Star

In addition to Kieran's and Neo Romanza's recommendations, check De Profundis, and Tabula Rasa. And most of all, Stabat Mater.


----------



## Skilmarilion

I have been to performances of Part's music, and it can be a very powerful experience.

The above recommendations are all great. I would add _Silhouette_, which is one of his more recent compositions.


----------



## Pantheon

Thank you so much ! I really appreciate this. I will listen to all of this very soon...


----------



## Ondine

*Kanon Pokajanen* is a monumental oeuvre; a real masterpiece. In my opinion it is his very best album with an outstanding maturity that shows the brilliance of his talent.

From the booklet:



> The Canon is a song of change and transformation. In the symbolism of the church it invokes the border between day and night [...].
> 
> Applied to a person it recalls the border between human and divine, weakness and strength, suffering and salvation, mortality and immortality. The symbolic reference to borders is specially powerful when the canon is sung in a church.
> 
> We may picture it as follows: The canon is heard in the nave, barely illuminated by the flickering candles, while the door to the sanctuary is still closed. As soon as the canon has come to an end, this entrance, 'the door to paradise' or the 'royal door', as it is called, opens.
> 
> The church is filled with light signifying the presence of Christ.


;D


----------



## hreichgott

Piano Sonatine, Op. 1, No. 1
1. I. Allegro 00:02:24
2. II. Larghetto - Allegro 00:04:05
Piano Sonatine, Op. 1, No. 2
3. I. Allegro energico 00:01:53
4. II. Largo 00:02:14
5. III. Allegro 00:01:35
Partita, Op. 2
6. I. Toccatina 00:00:50
7. II. Fughetta 00:01:02
8. III. Larghetto 00:03:09
9. IV. Ostinato 00:02:06
Variationen zur Gesundung von Arinuschka
10. Variation 1: Moderato 00:01:18
11. Variation 2 00:01:14
12. Variation 3 00:01:07
13. Variation 4: Piu mosso 00:00:47
14. Variation 5 00:01:01
15. Variation 6 00:01:02
Fur Alina
16. Fur Alina 00:03:25
Fur Anna Maria
17. Fur Anna Maria 00:01:12
Lamentate
18. Minacciando - 00:03:15
19. Spietato - 00:03:31
20. Fragile - 00:00:57
21. Pregando - 00:05:08
22. Solitudine - stato d'animo - 00:05:31
23. Consolante - 00:01:11
24. Stridendo - 00:01:24
25. Lamentabile - 00:05:14
26. Risolutamente - 00:02:46
27. Fragile e conciliante 00:06:32


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## oogabooha

I'm going to make an actual post about how much I admire his music, but for now, I'm anxious to share with you my cover photo on facebook


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## MagneticGhost

Ondine said:


> *Kanon Pokajanen* is a monumental oeuvre; a real masterpiece. In my opinion it is his very best album with an outstanding maturity that shows the brilliance of his talent.


I concur. 
For me Kanon Pokajanen is his absolute masterpiece.


----------



## Skilmarilion

I heard the violin and piano version of _Fratres_ recently and was blown away. Each variation is so profound.


----------



## Celloman

His _Stabat Mater_ is excellent. Highly recommended.


----------



## poptart

Interesting thread. Thanks for these recommendations.

@Ondine and @MagneticGhost, which recording of Kanon Pokajanen would you recommend?


----------



## Guest

I rate him highly and have several of his CDs ....one of the few modern composers that I enjoy.


----------



## Ravndal

Skilmarilion said:


> I have been to performances of Part's music, and it can be a very powerful experience.
> 
> The above recommendations are all great. I would add _Silhouette_, which is one of his more recent compositions.


I loved Silhouette!!! So refreshing hearing a cheerful tune from Pärt


----------



## GraemeG

I met him at a concert of his music here in Sydney over 15 years ago. One of the most remarkable concerts of my life; the best behaved concert audience I've ever witnessed.
And I got him to autograph a CD of his music too.
GG


----------



## Ondine

poptart said:


> Interesting thread. Thanks for these recommendations.
> 
> @Ondine and @MagneticGhost, which recording of Kanon Pokajanen would you recommend?


I just know this one:









I don't know if he made others


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## poptart

Ondine said:


> I just know this one:
> 
> View attachment 21543
> 
> 
> I don't know if he made others


Just got this and it is wonderful. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## PetrB

Skilmarilion said:


> I heard the violin and piano version of _Fratres_ recently and was blown away. Each variation is so profound.


Fratres exists in several versions by the composer.
Violin, percussion and string orchestra:




'Cello and Piano:




for twelve 'Cellos


----------



## Bas

Does anybody know this magnificent work of him:


----------



## Pantheon

Bas said:


> Does anybody know this magnificent work of him:


I do ! I listened to it not too long ago... It's lovely ! I'm trying to get my counter tenor friend to sing it


----------



## deprofundis

My heart's in the highland is perhaps one of his most beautiful , one of his best work so far, his gem among everything
i hae the decca cd serenity.


----------



## Albert7

Sorry that you are so well hated by a few people.

I really enjoy your work, Mr. Part.


----------



## pianississimo

Heard Pärt's Frates (for orchestra) last night. I really liked it. 
I have found myself being somewhat intimidated by very contemporary music. I sometimes feel that I have no terms of reference in understanding it. I don't like it but I don't really know why.

This was different in that it was first of all attractive music. This made me want to listen. Then it seemed to have a kind of absorbing quality that encourages me to listen more closely. This way I get more out of the music I'm listening to.

So, Arvo Pärt fans, where should I go next? I'd like to listen to more of his music in the hope of finding more that I like in modern music.


----------



## quack

His symphony for squeaky toys is really eerie.


----------



## Celloman

I recently purchased this recording of the _Te deum_ and the _Berliner Messe_:








Beautiful.


----------



## aajj

quack said:


> His symphony for squeaky toys is really eerie.


Wild & wonderful! I recently heard his Fratres for Cello & Piano, which I highly enjoyed, but it's a calm ocean compared to this stormy ride.


----------



## DiesIraeCX

Bas said:


> Does anybody know this magnificent work of him:


It is magnificent, indeed! That very recording with Torp and Bowers is used to *great effect* in the film, _La Grande Bellezza_ (Paolo Sorrentino), which deservedly won Best Foreign Film for 2013 at the Academy Awards.


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## Guest

Celloman said:


> I recently purchased this recording of the _Te deum_ and the _Berliner Messe_:
> View attachment 63700
> 
> 
> Beautiful.


I have this and agree: beautiful.

I'm wondering what to follow it up with?


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## Microtonal Cacophony

Da Pacem Domine & Lamentate from the 2005 ECM release are visceral and uplifting. 
The Hilliard Ensemble's expression is quite moving.


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## CypressWillow

I had never heard anything by Part until today, when, for no particular reason, I decided to sample something. It was Spiegel Im Spiegel, on YouTube. To my surprise, I quite liked it.

Then I found it has been used in several films, among them "Wit" with Emma Thompson and Audra McDonald, directed by Mike Nichols. Well, those are three names I very much like, so I watched the film just now. All I can say is, wow!

I'll have to listen to more of Arvo Part! It worked beautifully in this intelligent and moving film.


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## EdwardBast

CypressWillow said:


> I had never heard anything by Part until today, when, for no particular reason, I decided to sample something. It was Spiegel Im Spiegel, on YouTube. To my surprise, I quite liked it.
> 
> Then I found it has been used in several films, among them "Wit" with Emma Thompson and Audra McDonald, directed by Mike Nichols. Well, those are three names I very much like, so I watched the film just now. All I can say is, wow!
> 
> I'll have to listen to more of Arvo Part! It worked beautifully in this intelligent and moving film.


Part's music also made a brilliant soundtrack for the movie version of Kurt Vonnegut's _Mother Night_. Good movie too - Vonnegut's most serious novel methinks.


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## Manxfeeder

EdwardBast said:


> Part's music also made a brilliant soundtrack for the movie version of Kurt Vonnegut's _Mother Night_. Good movie too - Vonnegut's most serious novel methinks.


What, they made a movie out of that book? Thanks for the heads-up.


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## leonsm

What about his Symphony no. 3? I didn't see any fuss about it nowhere, but I listened a half a dozen of times and found it amazing. I've never heard his other three symphonies, but they are on the list, specially the fourth.


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## stone

I find his early and middle period works from the '60s and '70s to be much more interesting than his later work. _Credo_ is brilliant, probably my favourite piece from him, I also like his first two symphonies.


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## SanAntone

_*Tabula Rasa*_ is a musical composition written in 1977 by the Estonian composer *Arvo Pärt*. The piece contains two movements, "Ludus" and "Silentium," and is a double concerto for two solo violins, prepared piano, and chamber orchestra.

Premier recording on this ECM release by violinists *Gidon Kremer* and *Tatiana Grindenko* and prepared piano played by *Alfred Schnittke*.












> In 1968, Arvo Pärt fell publicly silent and entered a period of "artistic reorientation." During this period, he developed his tintinnabuli style of composition, which pairs two voices, one playing the notes of a scale (Melodic Voice), and the other playing notes of a triad (Tintinnabuli Voice). Pärt emerged from this period of innovation in 1976, and composed many of his most well known works, including Fratres, Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten, and Summa, all written in the tintinnabuli style. Tabula Rasa is one of these earliest tintinnabuli pieces, and holds the distinction of being one of the first compositions of Pärt's to reach Western listeners outside of Estonia and the Soviet States.
> 
> Tabula Rasa was composed at the request of Eri Klas, a friend and conductor, who asked Pärt to write a piece to accompany Alfred Schnittke's Concerto Grosso, which was scored for two violins, prepared piano, harpsichord, and string chamber ensemble, for an upcoming concert. The piece is dedicated to violinist Gidon Kremer. Kremer premièred the piece in Tallinn, Estonia, on 30 September 1977, with Tatjana Grindenko, on solo second violin, Alfred Schnittke on the prepared piano, and the Tallinn Chamber Orchestra, conducted by Eri Klas.


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## eljr

SanAntone said:


> _*Tabula Rasa*_ is a musical composition written in 1977 by the Estonian composer *Arvo Pärt*. The piece contains two movements, "Ludus" and "Silentium," and is a double concerto for two solo violins, prepared piano, and chamber orchestra.
> 
> Premier recording on this ECM release by violinists *Gidon Kremer* and *Tatiana Grindenko* and prepared piano played by *Alfred Schnittke*.


Fantastic piece. I have been enjoying Renaud Capuçon's interpretation . 
This new release (September, 2021) does not feature the big names, Kremer or Schnittke, but it is first rate.


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## SanAntone

eljr said:


> Fantastic piece. I have been enjoying Renaud Capuçon's interpretation .
> This new release (September, 2021) does not feature the big names, Kremer or Schnittke, but it is first rate.


Your image did not display but I know the recording you refer to, but I hadn't listened to it, yet. I am doing that now.

This morning, I happened to watch a documentary about Kremer and wanted to listen to some his recordings, which is what prompted me to listen to his recording of _Tabula Rosa_. There was a scene of him and Pärt rehearsing the work. Kremer is one of my favorite Classical musicians. I like the works he choses to record, his favorite composers are also among mine - and I very much enjoy his playing.


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## eljr

SanAntone said:


> Kremer is one of my favorite Classical musicians. I like the works he choses to record, his favorite composers are also among mine - and I very much enjoy his playing.


Same here.

If his name is on a recoding I have not heard of, I automatically know I will enjoy it.


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## annaw

Tabula Rasa is a fantastic piece! I’m half Estonian and grew up in Estonia. In Estonia, we have have a whole music festival dedicated to Pärt. A couple of years ago I was able to go and listen to one of the concerts that was performed in a church. Tabula Rasa with an actual church bell is an amazing experience!


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