# Favorite Tchaikovsky-esque Orchestral Works



## haydnfan

I've been listening to and enjoying Tchaikovsky symphonies recently. I keep coming back to 'em they are so melodic, lyrical, they make great use of each and every part of the orchestra, and are just powerhouses! Today I was blasting the third symphony at loud volumes, keeping the beat with my hands it's great stuff!! 

So what symphonies, concertos, suites, overtures, odds and ends do you recommend that either sound similar to Tchaikovsky or instead have some of the same strengths?


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## Polednice

Well, everybody knows that Rachmaninov is a cheap, shoddy imitation of the far greater Tchaikovsky, so you might want to listen to his meagre attempts for a few minutes... 

I think perhaps... _The Sea_, a tone poem by Glazunov... It's quite hard to find someone else like Tchaikovsky because he was so wonderfully unique, but to continue with the great tone poem theme, you should definitely try the late tone poems by Dvorak (Noon Witch/Water Goblin/Golden Spinning-Wheel/Wild Dove).

I'd say that Bruch's first Violin Concerto displays a melodiousness akin to Tchaikovsky's, and I'd pair Tchaikovsky's first Piano Concerto with Grieg's.

The more I think about it though, the more it seems that while Tchaikovsky is an archetypal Romantic composer, he really has a wonderfully original kind of music, above most others. And, given just how easy it is to be seduced by him, I think it's quite easy to forget that fact sometimes. I think I'm going to have a Tchaikovsky day tomorrow.


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## clavichorder

I really enjoy Chabrier's Fete Polonaise from Le Roi malgre lui(little known opera). It sounds like witty Tchaikovsky-lite, very french too, but with some Viennese waltz thrown in! A bit like the 1812 overture in spots.




Tchaikovsky was my first love in classical music!


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## clavichorder

I also highly recommend Taneyev's Concert Suite for Violin and Orchestra. The whole thing right here


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## Ukko

haydnfan said:


> [...]
> So what symphonies, concertos, suites, overtures, odds and ends do you recommend that either sound similar to Tchaikovsky or instead have some of the same strengths?


I agree with _Polednice_ to the extent that no other of the Romantic composers used _very_ similar melodies or orchestrations. Dvorak's symphonies (6-9) create somewhat similar atmospheres (not to PIT's 6th, nobody did that), and his tone poems are fairly similar - and mostly more effective. Borodin's orchestrations are simpler, but the melodies measure up pretty well. Rimsky is too 'tricked up'. Rachmaninoff pays much more attention to harmonies, less attention to isolated instruments.

Eh, that's it.


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## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> I agree with _Polednice_ to the extent that no other of the Romantic composers used _very_ similar melodies or orchestrations. Dvorak's symphonies (6-9) create somewhat similar atmospheres (not to PIT's 6th, nobody did that), and his tone poems are fairly similar - and mostly more effective. Borodin's orchestrations are simpler, but the melodies measure up pretty well. Rimsky is too 'tricked up'. Rachmaninoff pays much more attention to harmonies, less attention to isolated instruments.
> 
> Eh, that's it.


One can't forget Balakirev or Taneyev. Balakirev is a bit like Boridin in that melodies measure up but there is simpler orchestration. Balakirev is however amazing on the piano. Taneyev is far stricter with counterpoint than perhaps any other russian, except debatably, Medtner. But he has a touch in some of his works that really has influence from Tchaikovsky.

I'd also recommend Liszt's tone poems. I love les preludes, its popular for a reason.


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## Sid James

*Alexander von Zemlinsky's* symphonic poem _Die Seejungfrau_ (_The Mermaid_, premiered 1905, based on Hans Christian Andersen's fairytale), has themes in it that remind me strongly of Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony. The notes to the Naxos disc of it I have said that Zemlinsky may have taken a bit of Tchaikovsky's _Francesca de Rimini_, but I don't know that work. In any case, it does sound quite romantic like Tchaikovsky & the Russians, & looks ahead to the Hollywood film scores of the mid c20th. It is on youtube if you want to listen to it, but I have the Naxos disc which is great (coupled with his later & more modernist _Sinfonietta_)...


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## haydnfan

Wow this is awesome! Keep up the posts, I'm getting alot of ideas for future listening.


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## TxllxT

*Glinka Orchestral Works*










Inbetween Berlioz and Tchaikovsky, melodies that will root in your braincells forever. I like the orchestral Glinka as much as I like the whole Tchaikovsky


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## Delicious Manager

One needs to look at the Russian composers from the generation after Tchaikovsky:

Anton Arensky (particularly his Piano Trio No 1 in D minor, Op 32 and the unusual 2nd String Quartet (for violin, viola and two cellos!))
Vasily Kallinnikov (his two symphonies are gorgeous)
Anatol Lyadov

Rakhmaninov's earliest works betray a strong Tchaikovsky influence (eg _Prince Rostislav_, _The Rock_, _Caprice bohémien_, the 1st Piano Concerto, the two _Trios élégiaques_, the piano pieces Op 3 and Op 10), while many hear the influence of Tchaikovsky in Sibelius's 1st Symphony.


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## joen_cph

Or other Russians like *Lyapunov* (basically everything), *Lyadov *(The Enchanted Lake and other small symphonic poems). Or late followers, like *Valery Gavrilin *(fine ballet excerpts on youtube), *Sviridov* (The Snowstorm, on you-tube).

But it seems to me that you are very likely a potential dedicated *Sibelius*-listener as well


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## Weston

Dare I mention Mikhail Ippolitov-Ivanov? Sure his Caucasion Sketches are bit overplayed by pops orchestras, but they seem to use some of the rich orchestration and memorable melodies of Tchaikovsky - or rather Rimsky-Korsakov. 

There is also Borodin's Polevetsian Dances.


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## Manxfeeder

I hear Tchaikovsky in Shostakovich's Festive Overture.


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## Delicious Manager

Weston said:


> Dare I mention Mikhail Ippolitov-Ivanov? Sure his Caucasion Sketches are bit overplayed by pops orchestras, but they seem to use some of the rich orchestration and memorable melodies of Tchaikovsky - or rather Rimsky-Korsakov.
> 
> There is also Borodin's Polevetsian Dances.


By all means mention Ippolitov-Ivanov - I merely forget him in my earlier post. And 'Polovtsian' has no 'e' in it (despite some mis-printed versions of the word). However, I deliberately didn't mention any of 'The Five' because I don't feel the music of any of them is very like Tchaikovsky.


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## Ukko

TxllxT said:


> Inbetween Berlioz and Tchaikovsky, melodies that will root in your braincells forever. I like the orchestral Glinka as much as I like the whole Tchaikovsky


That's interesting. For some reason, Glinka's orchestral music only almost works for me; it seems trite, unimaginative. Part of that feeling may be because the melodies usually go just where I expect them to, and the orchestration holds no surprises either. That gives the impression that I've just been around too long - but I recall having that reaction half a century ago, when the world was still fairly new.


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## elgar's ghost

I guess quite a lot of 'silver age'/pre-Soviet music could be considered either 'Tchaikovskian' or 'Korsokovian' - from what I've heard of Rein'hold Gliere his work seems to have a foot in both camps.


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## clavichorder

Although its not Russian, simply for its amazing orchestration and themes, I recommend Ernest Chausson's symphony in B Flat. Really rich french late romanticism.


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## TxllxT

Hilltroll72 said:


> That's interesting. For some reason, Glinka's orchestral music only almost works for me; it seems trite, unimaginative. Part of that feeling may be because the melodies usually go just where I expect them to, and the orchestration holds no surprises either. That gives the impression that I've just been around too long - but I recall having that reaction half a century ago, when the world was still fairly new.


Berlioz - Glinka (orchestral, his operas are a bit too ponderous to my taste) - Tchaikovsky: _Ecclesiastes 4:12_ " And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken."


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## itywltmt

I agree with some of the thread participants - Tchaikovsky (especially the second half of his output) is so distinctive, that I can't imagine anybody "doing Tchaikovsky" other than PIT himself.

Works from the "Mighty Handful" align well with Tchaikovsky's early works, and Brahms is probably the only one of Tchaikovsky's contemporaries that can conjure up the same level of drama as PIT can, sans the darkness. Only Mahler manages to capture "the dark" the way PIT could (esp. the three hammer blows of the Sixth Symphony)

Despite the notoriety of his first piano concerto, I don't think that PIT comes close to Rachmaninoff in the solo piano and piano and orchestra department (sorry Polednice).


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## Polednice

itywltmt said:


> Despite the notoriety of his first piano concerto, I don't think that PIT comes close to Rachmaninoff in the solo piano and piano and orchestra department (sorry Polednice).


I would agree that Rachmaninov's solo piano stuff is far better, though still utterly predictable, because that's just what Rachmaninov is. Repetitive and trite. Rachmaninov's Piano Concertos are waste of time, in my humble opinion.


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## itywltmt

Polednice said:


> I would agree that Rachmaninov's solo piano stuff is far better, though still utterly predictable, because that's just what Rachmaninov is. Repetitive and trite. Rachmaninov's Piano Concertos are waste of time, in my humble opinion.


I think Rach 3 stands out, and doesn't fall under the "predictible" category, but I will not argue this one any further.

We can both agree Brahms PC #2 is an iota shy of masterpiece, let's call it a _compositional apex_...

BTW (Wrong thread) but have you heard of this recording:





http://www.channelclassics.com/solo-orchestra/lazic-29410.html

What I have heard makes me want to listen to the whole concerto...


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## waldvogel

If you like the orchestration and drama of Tchaikovsky, you'll probably like most of Sibelius' work. I'd recommend the _Lemminkainen Legends_, the _Karelia Suite_, _En Saga_, and the first two symphonies for a start.


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## Polednice

itywltmt said:


> I think Rach 3 stands out, and doesn't fall under the "predictible" category, but I will not argue this one any further.


Perhaps not entirely predictable, but, for me at least, it stopped giving after a few listens.



itywltmt said:


> We can both agree Brahms PC #2 is an iota shy of masterpiece, let's call it a _compositional apex_...


Err... a few hundred iotas _more_ than a masterpiece, I think!



itywltmt said:


> BTW (Wrong thread) but have you heard of this recording:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.channelclassics.com/solo-orchestra/lazic-29410.html
> 
> What I have heard makes me want to listen to the whole concerto...


I haven't listened to that - I've seen a bit of the arrangement before, and it's something I've avoided like the plague. But, just because you asked, I'll listen to it soon and see how atrocious it is.


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## itywltmt

I gather from your final remarks you're not a fan of revisionism when it comes to Brahms...

I purchased the disc online, and I don't think it's _that _out of place. The filler material is also pretty good, though I was NOT impressed by eMusic when they _made me buy the "applause" track_ to get the op. 4 scherzo track!


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## Orfeo

The first movement of Glazunov's Sixth Symphony is pretty Tchaikovskian.


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## PetrB

Stravinsky ~ L_e Baiser de la Fée_ (the full length Ballet) which uses original music of Tchaikovsky -- Stravinsky limited himself to Tchaikovsky's music which was not originally for orchestra, and then wrote other "Tchaikovskian" style music, essentially using not only music of Tchaikovsky but, in Stravinsky's words, "borrowing Tchaikovsky's Muse."

It is a classical story ballet, the libretto from Hans Christian Anderson's _The Ice Maiden_ (aka _The Snow Queen_) and it does not get any closer to Tchaikovsky-like (and remaining, definitively _Russian_) than this.

I found no Youtube clips of the full-length ballet: Most recommended recording, Stravinsky conducting, from the Columbia records complete music of Stravinsky series done through the 1960's. (I find the later recordings by Robert Kraft almost always too fast, and somewhat imbalanced as per voicings.)


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## Richannes Wrahms

[The orchestration of Sibelius's Symphony No.1 is Tchaikovskian although the material has more to do with Borodin and Mussorgsky. Sibelius's Symphony No.2 has more in common with Schubert than with the Russians.]


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## Eviticus

itywltmt said:


> Brahms is probably the only one of Tchaikovsky's contemporaries that can conjure up the same level of drama as PIT can,


Brahms could conjure drama for sure, but i would never tar the two with the same brush. In many respects, these two couldn't be further apart when looking for something tchaikovsky-esque. Certain Hungarian dances, the academic overture and the lullaby theme may tap into the same infectious stream of melodies (accepting the main theme of the academic overture is from a traditional folk song), but the Russians are a much more apt recommendation here. Brahms is no where near as accessible as Tchaikovsky and comparatively his orchestration feels rather bland.

Some overtures of Wagner may be a good choice; Tannhauser, the flying dutchman or ride of the valkyries.


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## EdwardBast

Miaskovksy's most lyrical symphonies are likely to appeal to Tchaikvosky admirers. His 5th, 9th, and 11th, for example.


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## Orfeo

EdwardBast said:


> Miaskovksy's most lyrical symphonies are likely to appeal to Tchaikvosky admirers. His 5th, 9th, and 11th, for example.


Myaskovsky is, to me anyway, the 20th Century Pyotr Illyich Tchaikovsky. You're right, the mannerism and articulation in Myaskovsky's music quite often evoke those of the older master (then again, he at times evokes Rimsky-Korsakov also, in his pastoral/picturesque writings).


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## bigshot

It's French, not Russian, but Offenbach has all the fun and sparkle of Tchaikovsky. My favorite recording of all time is Fiedler's Living Stereo record of Gaietie Parisienne.


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## Tristan

I would have to recommend Glazunov, particularly his underrated symphonies. Delibes' ballets also remind me a bit of Tchaikovsky and I know that Tchaikovsky considered Delibes an influence.


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## Xaltotun

Mendelssohn's symphonies seem to have some of the same strengths as Tchaikovsky's. The lightness, melody, energy... the "sweeping" feeling. They're perhaps more akin to Tchaikovskys early symphonies, rather than the late.


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## PetrB

Stravinsky ~ _Le baiser de la fée_... the full length ballet, using only bits of Tchaikovsky which were not originally orchestral (mainly piano pieces) and Stravinsky's own very Tchaikovsky-like inventions. A lovely score, _very_ Tchaikovsky, whose music Stravinsky adored.


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## afterpostjack

Tristan said:


> I would have to recommend Glazunov, particularly his underrated symphonies. Delibes' ballets also remind me a bit of Tchaikovsky and I know that Tchaikovsky considered Delibes an influence.


Glazunov indeed; his ballets, tone poems and symphonies are sublime works. I also highly recommend the orchestral works of Liszt - and not only for his justly popular tone poems.


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