# Beethoven: Symphony #6 "Pastoral" in F, op. 68



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Beethoven's sixth, the "Pastoral symphony," is one of his most famous works. At the moment it is on the fifth tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works. Only two symphonies--Beethoven's ninth and Brahms' fourth--are above it.

As usual for a work of this stature, Wikipedia has a nice article about it, including a little analysis that amounts to a nice listening guide. The best source for recording recommendations is probably Trout's blog post on this work:



> Condensed Listing:
> 1.	Walter (cond.), Columbia Symphony Orchestra	(1958)
> 2.	Böhm (cond.), Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra	(1971)
> 3.	Klemperer (cond.), Philharmonia Orchestra	(1957)
> ...


Anyway, as usual, the main questions are: *Do you like this work? Do you love it? Why? What do you like about it? Do you have any reservations about it?*

And of course, what are your favorite recordings?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

https://www.talkclassical.com/29192-beethovens-pastorale-12.html#post560744


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

There seem to be several threads about this symphony lately.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

KenOC said:


> There seem to be several threads about this symphony lately.


We should have five threads. One for each movement.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

My favorite Beethoven symphony as of now. But I haven't heard em all.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I am not really able to relate the the recommended recordings list in the OP. I really do not like the Gardiner or Carlos Kleiber recordings of this symphony and I am not that keen on Reiner or Szell. I'm very happy with Monteux, Bohm, Furtwangler and Walter being there. But I think it is a real mistake not to recognise how good the Harnoncourt (COE) Pastorale is. Of course, it is all a matter of personal taste but isn't it a work that needs space and relaxed treatment in some parts, that needs to glow and smile? It isn't all about the storm.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The Pastorale is my favorite Beethoven symphony and one of my favorite of his works with the Piano Sonata No. 32, Septet and a few others. The reasons for the symphony are simple: he is not storming the heavens nor is he making a point to reach Mt. Olympus; he is enjoying life on earth with some peasants. If you listen to his Septet, which was among his most popular works and played most often during his lifetime, you will come away with similar feelings of earthiness, joy and fun.

"Fun" isn't something I often attribute to Ludwig van, another reason this symphony strikes me so well. He is having fun living vicariously through the picnickers -- even through the storm that interrupts them with the joie de vive that comes afterward. This is a nearly singular moment for Beethoven, a Haydnesque moment similar to joyful times during his oratorio The Seasons.

As to the recordings listed, I suppose this was lifted almost directly from a latter issue of the Penguin Guide. Walter's has been popular and well-known for years and some of the others, Klemperer and Bohm among the Germans, have almost been as famous. But George Szell the iceman doing Beethoven's Pastorale? Or antiseptic John Gardiner? Or hard driven, hard bitten Carlos Kleiber? Please.

In my opinion they could easily have listed Ernest Ansermet and Toscanini rather than some of this troupe. Many critical guides see otherwise also.

The All Music Guide from 2000 listed Ormandy-Philadelphia, Walter, Furtwangler, Claudio Abbado-Vienna Philharmonic, Hermann Scherchen and Leonard Bernstein with Vienna 1999. 

In Third Ear Classical Music the late critic Arved Ashby (who wrote for American Record Guide) states preferences for Bela Drahos, Ricardo Muti, Bohm, Fritz Reiner, Walter, Klemperer, Sawallisch and Dorati. 

In 1970 Martin Bookspan, a well-known New York critic, host on public broadcasting and writer, called Bruno Walter's last recording of Pastorale, "one of the great accomplishments in the history of " recordings. He liked Pierre Monteaux-Vienna Philharmonic, Bohm, Ansermet and Klemperer too.

In his 1968 book Herbert Russcol (a horn player for Boston Symphony) lists a preference for Toscanini, Munch, Eric Kleiber and Carl Schuricht.

Way back in 1947 David Ewen, a preeminent American musicologist who wrote a slew of books, listed Toscanini as de rigeuer.

Is there a consensus? Walter, I suppose, maybe Bohm. It's hard to go wrong with any performance of this wonderful music by anyone listed here.

One name I never see mentioned is Herbert von Karajan. He recorded it several times. In the last one the thunderstorm sounded like nuclear detonation.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> My favorite Beethoven symphony as of now. But I haven't heard em all.


Listen to this, man. Thank me later.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

flamencosketches said:


> My favorite Beethoven symphony as of now. But I haven't heard em all.


I would say it is in a class of it's own among Beethoven's nine.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I appreciate the link @Allerius, I'll check it out after work. I haven't heard Toscanini on any Beethoven symphonies. I do like the 9th a lot and it's among the better of his, but it's such a long and heavy work that I don't often find myself listening to it. Though it could be the version I'm familiar with that leaves that impression. 

For years the only Beethoven set I've had is Josef Krips and the London Symphony. I never see it talked about here. Is it kind of an obscure set, or just not considered very good? I have Karajan/Berlin now too and I like it a lot.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Listen to this, man. Thank me later_

You know that's the 9th symphony, right? And this forum is about the Pastorale?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I think he was responding to me, prompted by my saying I haven't heard all of his symphonies. So slightly off topic, but I wouldn't say offensively so.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> I appreciate the link @Allerius, I'll check it out after work. I haven't heard Toscanini on any Beethoven symphonies. I do like the 9th a lot and it's among the better of his, but it's such a long and heavy work that I don't often find myself listening to it. Though it could be the version I'm familiar with that leaves that impression.
> 
> For years the only Beethoven set I've had is Josef Krips and the London Symphony. I never see it talked about here. Is it kind of an obscure set, or just not considered very good? I have Karajan/Berlin now too and I like it a lot.


Thanks. I love the Ninth with Toscanini, it's full of fire and passion in my opinion. Also it's one of the few pre-HIP recordings of this symphony that try to follow the tempi that Beethoven himself asked for (other classic recordings, including Furtwängler's, Böhm's, Fricsay's, Bernstein's and even Karajan's, play it with too slow tempi for my taste - and Beethoven's, if his metronome markings are correct).

Wagner apart, this is my absolute favorite piece of music of all times.

If you need some recommendations for Beethoven symphony cycles, I suggest you to check some old TC threads. Take a look here for example:

https://www.talkclassical.com/20478...dings.html?highlight=top+Beethoven+symphonies

If you have the time, take also a look at this youtube link below. It's from a poster that let links with recordings of all Beethoven symphonies played in fifteen different performances:






As for me, I really love the Karajan cycle of the 60's, but I think that I have much less listening experience than other members of this forum.



larold said:


> You know that's the 9th symphony, right? And this forum is about the Pastorale?


Ops... sorry for that. I'm quite the enthusiast about Beethoven's Ninth with Toscanini, and just _had_ to recommend it when _flamencosketches_ said that he wasn't familiar with all Beethoven symphonies. I'm sure that that this was off-topic but unharmful. My apologies again for that.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I enjoy the Bohm/Vienna, and Gerard Schwarz/NY Chamber Orch.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2019)

This is an odd work for me. It doesn't rank at the top of my favorite Behooven symphonies. I prefer the 9th, 7th, 3rd and 5th. But whenever I listen to it, I think that I like it more than I thought.

I enjoy the Szell recording, but my favorite for performance and sound is the Vänskä. But sometimes I'll listen to the Immerseel.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

flamencosketches said:


> For years the only Beethoven set I've had is Josef Krips and the London Symphony. I never see it talked about here. Is it kind of an obscure set, or just not considered very good? I have Karajan/Berlin now too and I like it a lot.


The Krips is a fine set in terms of performance and conducting. Krips certainly knew the proper style. When the set first came out almost 60 years ago on LP, it sounded good - like most Everest records did at that time. Then, it was shuffled off to budget labels which used 2nd and 3rd generation tapes for masters. The sound suffered terribly. The Bescol edition was awful. Someone did make a cd edition in the 90's using the original high-quality tapes. I haven't heard it but they're supposed to be really good. There were a lot of Beethoven cycles made around 1960: Krips, Walter, Cluytens, Leibowitz, Ansermet, and others. Krips just wasn't a big-name and the set kind of got lost in the shuffle. It was good, but the competition was fierce.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

mbhaub said:


> ...The Bescol edition was awful. Someone did make a cd edition in the 90's using the original high-quality tapes. I haven't heard it but they're supposed to be really good.


That would be the Madacy issue, usually sold in a tin can with picture of Ludwig on the front. Lutz Rippe was the remastering engineer in Hamburg. He worked with the original 35mm tapes and achieved much improved sonics, in spite of the tapes being deteriorated and a lack of information on equalization.

Krips-in-a-can is available for under ten bucks. I use the can for stuff on my desk top.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Like I said before, a bit indulgent and repetitive, but it works. The 2nd movement in particular, is like screaming "listen how gorgeous this melody is!"


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Phil loves classical said:


> Like I said before, a bit indulgent and repetitive, but it works. The 2nd movement in particular, is like screaming "listen how gorgeous this melody is!"


A bit indulgant and repetitive. What of? Genius?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

This is certainly the favourite Beethoven Symphony of mine and the one I came to know Beethoven through . I got a very cheap old LP by the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra and played it till the grooves is nearly wore out as a boy. 
Of course the recordings now are plentiful 
Karajan 1950s is possibly his best but in stereo the 1977 is delightful
Bohm I find rather disappointing.
Klemperer us really good if you don't mind the slow Scherzo
Beecham / RPO is delightful
Found Chailly disappointing as he appears to be walking through the country on a jet ski but Norrington is a possibility if you want HIP


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

"In taking leave of the Symphony it is impossible not to feel deep gratitude to this great composer for the complete and unalloyed pleasure which he here puts within our reach. Gratitude, and also astonishment... What boldness, what breadth, what beauty! What a cheerful, genial, beneficent view over the whole realm of Nature and man... To hear it is like contemplating, not a work of art, or man's device, but a mountain, or forest, or other immense product of Nature -- at once so complex and so simple; the whole so great and overpowering; the parts so minute, so lovely, and so consistent; and the effect so inspiring, so beneficial, and so elevating." --Sir George Grove


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> "In taking leave of the Symphony it is impossible not to feel deep gratitude to this great composer for the complete and unalloyed pleasure which he here puts within our reach. Gratitude, and also astonishment... What boldness, what breadth, what beauty! What a cheerful, genial, beneficent view over the whole realm of Nature and man... To hear it is like contemplating, not a work of art, or man's device, but a mountain, or forest, or other immense product of Nature -- at once so complex and so simple; the whole so great and overpowering; the parts so minute, so lovely, and so consistent; and the effect so inspiring, so beneficial, and so elevating." --Sir George Grove


I have read that the effect of being in the countryside used to cause Beethoven to run around, waving his arms and shouting for joy. You can hear it in this astonishing and unique masterpiece.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

It is my favourite Beethoven symphony by far (it's my favourite Beethoven composition, period). Every time it's a pleasure to hear it. I don't go for comparative versions in general, I have the 70s Karajan on DG, which has served me well.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Marvelous Symphony. I generally like Gardiner's Beethoven, but in this instance I think he takes it a trifle too fast and loses some measure of depth, though it still has merits with its liveliness. I'm interested in feeling nature as well as hearing it. His version seems more like painting a picture of Nature rather than invoking it, being it, and at times may sound surface and somewhat rushed:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Larkenfield said:


> https://www.talkclassical.com/29192-beethovens-pastorale-12.html#post560744


That's a fine thread! Thanks for linking to it.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

A piece that defies any attempt of criticism directed at it by simply too beautiful! I could never choose a favorite Beethoven symphony (it's a bit stupid to do so, really), but this one is certainly unique.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> A piece that defies any attempt of criticism directed at it by simply too beautiful! I could never choose a favorite Beethoven symphony (*it's a bit stupid to do so, really*), but this one is certainly unique.


What's the problem of having a favorite symphony, sonata, opera etc? The fact that all Beethoven symphonies are each unique in their own way doesn't mean that one needs to like them equally. Some people like apples and oranges equally, some prefer oranges and yet others prefer the apples. Why would the last two be stupid for that?

All the people who voted for this poll (89 until now) have a favorite Beethoven symphony. The composer himself seems to have favoured the Eroica.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Eh, you can have a favorite. It becomes stupid when you try to argue it is "better" than others (whatever that even means) or try to degrade others in comparison... Anyway, enjoy the music; people are too argumentative as it is.

I will stand by the fact that when talking about pieces like the Beethoven symphonies it is probably better NOT to have a favorite than to have one. Doesn't really matter though.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

In fact, at the risk of stupidity, I'll say that the very best Pastoral is that of Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, in an early stereo cycle. It's available on its own or in a Sony-remastered stereo cycle for peanuts.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2019)

i believe you guys somehow stopped evolving; i cannot bear listening to recordings before the 1980 because of the awful sound; therefore i support kleiber's version because he is simply one on the best conductors of all times and has decent sound; vanska's versions of all lvb symphonies are just unbelievable;
then there are the best: rajski 's versions on tacet with the incredible sound


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I guess I got confused with all the Pastorale threads. I will repeat my opinion from another, that there are five standout recordings led by Furtwängler’s final attempt from May 23, 1954. It is a glorious reading which truly ties all the facets of the piece together. It is available on Audite and Music & Arts, but I prefer the Tahra mastering if you can find it.

My five essential picks:

Furtwängler 5/23/54
Walter/CSO
Klemperer
Böhm 
Cluytens

Others of interest:

De Sabata
Erich Kleiber
Weingartner
Bernstein/VPO
Steinberg
Pfitzner
Casals
Monteux


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> It is my favourite Beethoven symphony by far (it's my favourite Beethoven composition, period). Every time it's a pleasure to hear it. I don't go for comparative versions in general, I have the 70s Karajan on DG, which has served me well.


I love the 77 Karajan Pastorale. Very beautiful, with an apocalyptic storm. It sounds especially good on the new Atmos disc.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2019)

i totally agree with you dr Mike, your choice of symphonies is nailing it.but be aware that lvb composed the fifth and sixth during the same period.so the sixth was probably a relaxing moment and it is very pleasant indeed, like the fabulous septet mentioned by larold. It is difficult not to succumb to the charms of these works and it is refreshing to know that the greatest musical genius of all times also knew how to have fun.
regarding the recordings i do not listen to records before 1980 because of the poor sonics. Vänskä is a great choice and i also recommend Jansons and Rajski. The latter has probably the best recorded sound in history.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

KenOC said:


> That would be the Madacy issue, usually sold in a tin can with picture of Ludwig on the front. Lutz Rippe was the remastering engineer in Hamburg. He worked with the original 35mm tapes and achieved much improved sonics, in spite of the tapes being deteriorated and a lack of information on equalization.
> 
> Krips-in-a-can is available for under ten bucks. I use the can for stuff on my desk top.


I believe that this was the first stereo recording of a Beethoven symphony cycle, barely predating Cluytens. Cluytens started first (1957) but the Krips came out earlier in 1960 just before the Cluytens was released. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

KenOC said:


> In fact, at the risk of stupidity, I'll say that the very best Pastoral is that of Bruno Walter and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, in an early stereo cycle. It's available on its own or in a Sony-remastered stereo cycle for peanuts.


Is this still available? I can't seem to find it on Amazon.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I love the 77 Karajan Pastorale. Very beautiful, with an apocalyptic storm. It sounds especially good on the new Atmos disc.


Yes it really is superb. The 1950s with the Philarmonia is good too


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

A great symphony but like most LvB symphonies (with the exception of 3 and 9) I just don't find myself listening to it frequently and don't feel particularly moved to compare many versions. I will say though - Walter/Columbia has the most gorgeous phrasing that I've heard, live Carlos Kleiber the most ferocious storm (though I can't stand the rest) and Klemperer the most natural pacing (you heard that right).


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

Where do I start with this work? I ADORE this symphony - it's probably my favourite Beethoven symphony. I love the naturistic, imaginative air that this work has. The storm (4th) movement is just great and the storm clearing away to the 5th movement is one of my favourite moments that Beethoven wrote. My favourite performance is a relatively under-appreciated performances in my opinion. Celibidache/Muncher Philharmonika is an extremely beautiful and expansive version of this symphony. I don't much like Celibidache's performances much but this one fantastic.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

KenOC said:


> That would be the Madacy issue, usually sold in a tin can with picture of Ludwig on the front. Lutz Rippe was the remastering engineer in Hamburg. He worked with the original 35mm tapes and achieved much improved sonics, in spite of the tapes being deteriorated and a lack of information on equalization.
> 
> Krips-in-a-can is available for under ten bucks. I use the can for stuff on my desk top.


Ah, I have this. I thought about getting rid of it and looking for a more official issue, but if this one has the best mastering, maybe I'll keep it!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

flamencosketches said:


> Is this still available? I can't seem to find it on Amazon.


(Re: the cheap Sony remasters of the Walter/CSO Beethoven cycle) Last time I looked it had disappeared from Amazon entirely. A shame.


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