# Round One: Avant de quitter ces lieu from Faust. Blanc,Capucilli, Massard



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Faust is such a popular opera expecially up till the mid twentieth century you get a lot of people singing it. I thought for this round I would include some not so well known singers. If you feel strongly about me having a second round with someone in particular I will do so if I have at least 2 contentants.




*Ernest Blanc, "Avant de Quitter Ces Lieux," Faust*





Faust, Act I: O sainte medaille - Avant de quitter ces lieux · Piero Cappuccilli Il mito dell'oprera: Piero Cappuccilli




Faust: Act II, O Toi, Sainte Médaille… Avant de quitter ces lieux (Live performance, Milan 1967) · Robert Massard · Charles Gounod · Orchestra of La Scala Milan · Chorus of La Scala Milan · Georges Prêtre


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

unfamiliar with most of the names but after going back and forth and eliminating Massard, I finally settled on Blanc.
(where are Ramey and Hvorostovsky when you need them?)


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

If you need backup contestants for a second round...



Spoiler: Gounod: Faust - Avant de quitter ces lieux - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau













Spoiler: Faust, Act I: Cavatina: Avant de quitter ces lieux - Herman Prey













Spoiler: Faust, Act I: Avant de quitter ces lieux - Dmitri Hvorostovsky













Spoiler: Faust, Act II: Ô sainte médaille ... Avant de quitter ces lieux... - Thomas Hampson


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

On this one John I just didn’t really enjoy anyone. A real lack of legato smoothness in a melody that yearns for it. If you go further, I always thought that Tibbet’s rendition was a homerun. Of this bunch, I think the first one, Blanc, was the least bad.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Went with Blanc without any hesitation... Cappuccilli was defeated by the orchestra being mixed in front of his vocal... Massard, despite French being his native language, undone by enunciation - live recording did him no favours either...


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Spoiler: Faust - Avant de quitter ces lieux... - Boris Christoff


This isn't Christoff. It's Ernest Blanc, as in the first video posted by SOF. It's from the same complete recording and Christoff plays Méphistopélès. This aria is sung by Valentin.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I was expecting Massard to be better than he was, but he wasn't as smooth as I like, so he went out. Cappuccilli went out for the same reason.

I liked Blanc better than others here. I thought his legato was very good and he sang the opening measures with a lovely, smooth vocal line. It could also because I'm more familiar with his version as it's from the complete recording I have, but I'm giving him my vote.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It was an experiment. I also liked Blanc best. It was too tempting for me as normally it is the same roster of singers over and over and there were so many that were unknown to me. I got enough suggestions for a second round with singers you like. Thanks for trying them out .


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

nina foresti said:


> unfamiliar with most of the names but after going back and forth and eliminating Massard, I finally settled on Blanc.
> (where are Ramey and Hvorostovsky when you need them?)


Why would Ramey be singing Valentin?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> Why would Ramey be singing Valentin?


Next round Tibbett, Hvorostovsky and Souzay.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I think Blanc was in the de Los Angeles *Faust *recording, Massard in the Callas *Carmen*, Cappuccilli in many Verdi recordings in the heyday of recordings 1970s/80s. I have not checked, though. Here, Blanc sounds a dull dog; the voice in the Freni-covered video immediately sounds more alive, smoother and more animated. Capuccilli sounds old, his tone frayed.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It was an experiment. I also liked Blanc best. It was too tempting for me as normally it is the same roster of singers over and over and there were so many that were unknown to me. I got enough suggestions for a second round with singers you like. Thanks for trying them out .


If you're at a loss of actually good baritones to pick, there are dozens and dozens from the golden age.

France and the Low Countries: Jean Noté, Armand Crabbé, Maurice Renaud, Charles Cambon, Henri Albers, Ernest Tilkin-Servais, Henri Stamler, Gérard Souzay 

Spain: Celestino Sarobe, Giuseppe Segura-Talien, Nestore della Torre 

The Anglosphere: Lawrence Tibbett, Thomas L. Thomas, Nelson Eddy, Robert Weede, Robert Merrill, Arthur Endrèze, Robert McFerrin, Theodor Uppman, Earnest Symmons, Francesco Valentino, John Brownlee, John Barrow 

Germany/Austria(n Empire): Heinrich Schlusnus, Joseph Schwarz, Maximilian Maksakov, Hans Duhan, Hans-Hermann Nissen 

Russian Empire/USSR: Mikhail Karakash, Vladimir Zakharov 

Last but not least, ITALY: Mattia Battistini, Titta Ruffo, Riccardo Stracciari, Giuseppe Bellantoni, Mario Ancona, Giuseppe Pacini, Eugenio Giraldoni, Giovanni Inghilleri, Antonio Magini-Coletti, Giuseppe Danise, Carlo Galeffi, Umberto Urbano, Mario Laurenti, Mario Basiola, Vincenzo Guicciardi, Cesare Formichi, Carmelo Maugeri, Luigi Piazza, Giuseppe de Luca, Pasquale Amato, Apollo Granforte, Giovanni Albinolo, Giovanni Milani, Enrico De Franceschi, Franco Pagliazzi, Franco Bordoni, Domenico Viglione-Borghese, Giacomo Rimini

And those are just the ones I personally approve. Others love Lisitsian, Bechi, Scotti, Sammarco, Badini, Warren, Bonelli, Bonini, Tagliabue, Valdengo, Stabile, Bruscantini, Guelfi, etc.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> If you're at a loss of actually good baritones to pick, there are dozens and dozens from the golden age.
> 
> France and the Low Countries: Jean Noté, Armand Crabbé, Maurice Renaud, Charles Cambon, Henri Albers, Ernest Tilkin-Servais, Henri Stamler, Gérard Souzay
> 
> ...


I have a pretty good record in the past in contestsbut we all have the right to have a few duds. I have used some of those before well. I don't know what possessed me. Forgive.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have a pretty good record in the past in contestsbut we all have the right to have a few duds. I have used some of those before well. I don't know what possessed me. Forgive.


I don't know what was wrong with these three contestants. I actually quite liked them.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

I'm going to listen to the Gedda/De los Angeles/Christoff/Cluytens Faust recording because I genuinely enjoyed Ernest Blanc's performance and would like to hear the full production - I wrote "without any hesitation" for a reason - I made my choice and was one of the first to do so - I didn't check to see who voted for whom - If you didn't select him, I would not have known who he was.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> You still have an excellent record and this contest wasn't a dud - There's nothing to forgive - You have just got to stop beating yourself up and taking these critiques so personally as none of them are directed towards you...
> 
> You wanted to try something different - You wanted to expand - to extend - your roster of artists so as to keep both yourself and us continually interested - You've made the decision to curate these contests as if they were an actual artform - and you're not content with being a mere craftsman, you want to be an artist - To express your creativity - your originality - your own unique sense of how these contests should look and sound - Selecting the arias, pairing them with the appropriate performers, and then staging evenly balanced contests that are meant to be both entertaining and challenging to those of us who participate in them.
> 
> ...


I handled this fine. Much better than before.T London liked the contest so I'm okay!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have a pretty good record in the past in contestsbut we all have the right to have a few duds. I have used some of those before well. I don't know what possessed me. Forgive.


I don't think coming away from a round and not liking anyone is in the least a reflection on the contest - and the proof is that I really would be more circumspect if I thought it reflected on you! It's just another example of the subjectivity of the arts! From time to time I expect that to happen unless the contest master is being too careful which you, fortunately for all of us, are not! There's a line somewhere about trying to please everyone being a guarantee of, at best, a high level of mediocrity!!! And it's exposure to stuff you don't like at first that, on occasion, gives you those moments of creeping discovery.....like seeing Ziliani still alive over there in the other contest and thinking I actually would like to hear him again! Keepdoinwuhtchuhbendoin!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Shaughnessy said:


> You still have an excellent record and this contest wasn't a dud - There's nothing to forgive - You have just got to stop beating yourself up and taking these critiques so personally as none of them are directed towards you...
> 
> You wanted to try something different - You wanted to expand - to extend - your roster of artists so as to keep both yourself and us continually interested - You've made the decision to curate these contests as if they were an actual artform - and you're not content with being a mere craftsman, you want to be an artist - To express your creativity - your originality - your own unique sense of how these contests should look and sound - Selecting the arias, pairing them with the appropriate performers, and then staging evenly balanced contests that are meant to be both entertaining and challenging to those of us who participate in them.
> 
> ...


Really Johnny......ya could be home watching feckin tele stead of dealing with this *****!!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I would slow down the conducting for each of the guys. But Massard sounded the most passionate to me. (I think Valentine is not a 100% brotherly brother).


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I see Blanc is winning, I considered him, but he ended up as my second choice, because I had to decide somehow. Cappucilli is the most famous name, but left me cold. Maybe because he was recorded from the distance.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> If you're at a loss of actually good baritones to pick, there are dozens and dozens from the golden age.
> 
> France and the Low Countries: Jean Noté, Armand Crabbé, Maurice Renaud, Charles Cambon, Henri Albers, Ernest Tilkin-Servais, Henri Stamler, Gérard Souzay
> 
> ...


I changed to Souzay from Hampson thanks to you on the next round and I saved this as a word document for later.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

PaulFranz said:


> If you're at a loss of actually good baritones to pick, there are dozens and dozens from the golden age.
> 
> France and the Low Countries: Jean Noté, Armand Crabbé, Maurice Renaud, Charles Cambon, Henri Albers, Ernest Tilkin-Servais, Henri Stamler, Gérard Souzay
> 
> ...


Stracciari ?!!! Let me check this out, presto !

Edit: Weirdly enough, I don't like him as I expected. Maybe this aria is not a good fit for Stracciari ? Aftrerwards, youtube offered me his Rigoletto, Renato, the guy from Chenier, and I was happy again.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> If you're at a loss of actually good baritones to pick, there are dozens and dozens from the golden age.
> 
> France and the Low Countries: Jean Noté, Armand Crabbé, Maurice Renaud, Charles Cambon, Henri Albers, Ernest Tilkin-Servais, Henri Stamler, Gérard Souzay
> 
> ...


I changed my mind and am using one of your guys next time. I am saving this as a word document for future reference if I want to spice things up


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Mistake


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I'm going to listen to the Gedda/De los Angeles/Christoff/Cluytens Faust recording because I genuinely enjoyed Ernest Blanc's performance and would like to hear the full production - I wrote "without any hesitation" for a reason - I made my choice and was one of the first to do so - I didn't check to see who voted for whom - If you didn't select him, I would not have known who he was.


It's not perfect, but it's my preferred recording of the opera. I hope you enjoy. Christoff takes some getting used to. His French is awful, but he does create a real character.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I'm playing catch up with the contests!

My expectation would be that a francophone singer will win this and I like Blanc. His voice is somewhat nasally placed and he doesn't do much with this, but it's well sung.

Cappuccilli is captured live and so is at a disadvantage due to the sound. However, he has a better quality of voice than Blanc and I find him more thrilling. I think I prefer this over the Blanc.

Massard is another French baritone that I don't know particularly well. He doesn't have the star vocal quality of Cappuccilli, but his voice sounds more naturally produced than Blanc's and there is a feeling of authenticity and authority that the other two lack. Massard wins for me.

N.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's not perfect, but it's my preferred recording of the opera. I hope you enjoy. Christoff takes some getting used to. His French is awful, but he does create a real character.


....it's the French from Hell...


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ewilkros said:


> ....it's the French from Hell...


Unless one has a gift for languages, certain sounds are difficult to get “right,” and then one has those nasal ones. There was an exercise in school that one had to say to practice the nasals: “_un bon vin blanc,” _or try an operatic one: “_au fond du temple saint,” _to see whether the nasals will confound you.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Unless one has a gift for languages, certain sounds are difficult to get “right,” and then one has those nasal ones. There was an exercise in school that one had to say to practice the nasals: “_un bon vin blanc,” _or try an operatic one: “_au fond du temple saint,” _to see whether the nasals will confound you.


It was a pun! Christoff sings a character called Méphistophélès. Méphistophélès comes from Hell. Therefore Méphistophélès speaks the French from Hell.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ewilkros said:


> It was a pun! Christoff sings a character called Méphistophélès. Méphistophélès comes from Hell. Therefore Méphistophélès speaks the French from Hell.


OK, then.


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