# Beethoven - Op. 67 - Symphony No. 5



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece?

Here below you find a live perfomance of the Frankfurt Radio Symphony.
The orchestra dictator: Andrés Orozco-Estrada.

I recommend to listen to more perfomances of this orchestra because IMO they do a very good job (and the audio quality is high).


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Revolutionary work, it goes without saying. My favorite version is the live Furtwängler from May 25, 1947, his first concert in Berlin after the war:






On the other side of the spectrum is Mackerras/RLPO, very fast but without losing power and accent:







My full survey of B5 recordings below:

*Symphony No. 5 in C minor (Op. 67) 

Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (5/25/1947) (Tahra, Audite, Music & Arts)*

This concert marked Furtwängler’s return to the podium after the war, and as a moment captured in time it stands as one of his most inspired performances on record. Furtwängler’s gift for flexibility combined with his understanding of harmonic architecture brings a compellingly dramatic reading, the final coda exhilarating in its spontaneity. The sound quality is clear but a bit thin compared to his better recorded if slightly less intense effort of two days later (available on DG).

*Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (5/23/1954) (Tahra, Audite, Music & Arts, Andromeda)*

This spacious live performance makes an apt complement to Furtwängler’s fleeter 1947 outing. Here there is a sense of weighty power, especially overwhelming in the transition into the finale. This is Beethoven hewn from granite, with deep bass sonorities. The basic tempo begins slowly but picks up steam and has a wondrous sense of proportion throughout. Furtwängler’s interpretive genius is on much better display here than in the comparatively inert studio recording made the same year for EMI, particularly when the mono sound quality is excellent, the range and fullness of the BPO impressively caught.

*Leonard Bernstein/Bavarian RSO (1976) (DG)*

Like Furtwängler, Bernstein provides a mature, masterful interpretation of a work that can sometimes sound hackneyed. The opening Allegro is powerful but intelligently paced, and the remaining movements reflect the tension of the live Amnesty International concert, leading to a thrilling conclusion. With excellent, full-bodied sound, this makes a superior alternative to the somewhat lethergic studio version from Bernstein’s otherwise superlative VPO cycle.

*Charles Mackerras/Royal Liverpool PO (1992) (EMI)*

Mackerras offers a modern instrument version that draws on period practice, with fast tempos and clear texture. The interepretation is one of the best on record, rhythmically exciting and intelligently paced from first to last. Even though the orchestral timbre is generally lighter, the powerful moments come across just as strongly, if not moreso as a result of the great range and dexterity in excellent sound.

*Eugen Jochum/Berlin PO (1951) (Tahra, Philips)*

In between the two above-referenced BPO live performances sits this incandescent studio version conducted by Jochum, made available by Tahra though inexplicably never released on CD by Philips. The broad, flexible interpretation is one of the most powerful and inspired accounts ever put on record, with full, vivid sound barely registering as mono.

*Carlos Kleiber/Vienna PO (1976) (DG)*

Kleiber’s swift, gripping account took the world by storm upon its release and still stands today as the most celebrated classical music recording ever issued. The secret of its greatness lies in a lean, elegant, polished flexibility that maneuvers through Beethoven’s rhythmic accents with agility and panache, most impressively in the electric first movement. A solid interpretation and clear, present sound quality cement this recording’s legendary status.

*Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia Orch. (1955) (EMI, Naxos)*

More urgent than in his later stereo account, Klemperer is customarily elemental and disciplined. There is an authoritative patience and unrelenting persistence that produces a unique cumulative effect of immense power, placing this among the indispensible Beethoven interpretations. The mono recording is excellent, with the Philharmonia sounding glorious.

*Arturo Toscanini/NBC SO (1939) (RCA, Music & Arts, Relief, Andromeda, Grammofono)*

Among Toscanini’s many accounts on various labels, this studio version stands out for its authoritative intensity. The accented chords are fierce and clipped, emphasizing a direct approach at odds with his more philosophical German peers. What emerges is a ferocity and urgency unique in the annals of recorded history, yet also with elegant phrasing and hushed moments of tension. The first movement is a whirlwind, and the finale emerges in a burst of sound leading to a fervently spirited conclusion.

*Erich Kleiber/Vienna PO (1953) (Decca)*

The father’s classic version makes for a fascinating comparison with the son’s, similarly fleet but with a more straight-forward, earthbound, rustic quality that is powerful in its own way. This is the sort of direct Beethoven interpretation that grips you by the throat from the beginning and never lets go. The mono sound is present and detailed, capturing the fullness of the VPO.

*Karl Böhm/Berlin PO (1953) (DG)*

Böhm presents yet another superlative early 1950s Berlin account, but in this instance the mono studio recording is more present and detailed. The interpretation is steady and straight-forward, the brusque energy of Beethoven’s music coming across convincingly.

*Carlo Maria Giulini/Los Angeles PO (1982) (DG)*

Giulini provides an excellent traditional interpretation in beautifully balanced modern sound. The first movement is exciting without going over the top, and the finale is taken at a broad speed, emphasizing its grandeur.

*Artur Nikisch/Berlin PO (1913) (Dutton, DG, Symposium)*

Nikisch’s recording was the first ever made of a complete symphony, but it is more than just a historical curiosity. Though orchestral details can hardly be detected, what does emerge is a wonderfully spontaneous interpretation from a master conductor, including a volcanicly propulsive first movement and an appropriately joyous romp of a finale.

*George Szell/Vienna PO (1969) (Orfeo)*

Szell in this live recording is searingly dramatic in the first movement, one of the best on record. The rest is fairly straight-forward but played with an extra frisson compared to his studio accounts, the sound remarkably present and detailed. The coda to the finale in particular displays a refreshing spontaneity.

*John Eliot Gardiner/Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (1994) (DG Archiv)*

Gardiner’s recording on period instruments features fast tempos with an adept interpretation and immaculate playing. The sound quality is superb, the crisp articlulation wonderfully caught, with plenty of depth to the orchestral sound.

*Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (1962) (DG)*

One of the centerpieces of Karajan’s first Beethoven cycle as head of the BPO was this lean, muscular 5th, displaying a faster, more agile style. The work is intelligently paced, with excellent sound quality displaying the BPO in peak form.

*Fritz Reiner/Chicago PO (1959) (RCA)*

The CSO under Reiner is matchless, with a wonderfully balanced, detailed sound quality adding to the attractiveness. The first movement is particularly effective, one of the most powerfully impressive on record, and the remaining movements are similarly well-played if a bit more prosaic in character.

*Rafael Kubelik/Boston SO (1973) (DG, Belart, Pentatone)*

Kubelik doesn’t give us the typical fireworks that others do. What he does give is simply a very well-played version at a modest tempo, superbly recorded, that effectively communicates the emotions of the work in a way that will please many.

Further listening:

Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (1943) (DG, Tahra, Opus, Music & Arts, Andromeda)

Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (5/27/47) (DG)

Arturo Toscanini/New York PO (1933) (Naxos, RCA, Music & Arts, Pearl)

Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia Orch. (1957) (Testament)

Victor de Sabata/New York PO (1950) (Tahra, Urania)

Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (1937) (Tahra, Biddulph, Naxos, Music & Arts)

Eugen Jochum/Boston SO (DG)

Sir John Barbirolli/Hallé Orch. (Dutton)

Pierre Monteux/London SO (1961) (Decca)

Evgeny Mravinsky (1972) (Erato, Elatus)

Franz Schalk/Vienna PO (Dante Lys)

Bruno Walter/Columbia SO (1958) (Sony)

Leonard Bernstein/New York PO (Sony)

Andre Cluytens/Berlin PO (EMI, Royal Classics)

Wilhelm Furtwängler/Vienna PO (1954) (EMI)

George Szell/Concertgebouw Orch. (1966) (Philips)

Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna Brugge (Zig-Zag)

Igor Markevitch/Lamoureux Orch. (DG)

Ferenc Fricsay/Berlin PO (DG)

Georg Solti/Vienna PO (1958) (Decca)

William Steinberg/Pittsburgh SO (DG)

Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (1976) (DG)

Günter Wand/NDR SO (1987)(RCA)


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Probably the greatest work in classical music, perfectly proportioned and almost impossible to do poorly. I'd rather know if anyone ever heard it done and wasn't excited.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

larold said:


> ...almost impossible to do poorly. I'd rather know if anyone ever heard it done and wasn't excited.


Very easy to do poorly: I've heard (and played in) more than one attempt by an amateur, community orchestra which couldn't cope with the 5th. The scherzo is brutal on cellos and basses. Then there are the conductors who just don't have the technique to get the beginning right. Even Andre Previn made a mess of it in live performances. But then maybe it's unfair to criticize amateurs.

Live performances by professionals can be exciting, but it's a hard thing to do. We've all heard it so many times that any performance cannot be routine or it's going to be dull, and that's what I've heard too many times. The most boring I've ever heard was the SF symphony with MTT. It was truly boring and dull. No sense of drama, no excitement, no energy. Maybe he had an off night. There are many dull recordings.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

This is my favorite symphony, and I love many different recordings of it. I will give three different recommendations.

1. All around great: Stanislaw Skrowaczewski, Saarbrucken Radio Symphony (1st movement and finale are top notch)
2. Stately and majestic: Ferenc Fricsay, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
3. Energetic and perfect for letting out your inner conductor: Klaus Tennstedt, London Philharmonic Orchestra


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Was my introduction to classical music 40 years ago and remains my favorite composition by any composer, ‘Nuff said.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

One of the most legendary, iconic and enduringly successful pieces in all of classical music. To me, "excellent" is not good enough and seems almost a derogatory word to describe this symphony.

My go-to performance is Karajan/BPO from 1962.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

Saw a performance with RCO/Iván Fischer 12 days ago.

Please post pictures in the News, Concerts and Events forum, share your latest concerts.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

E.T.A. Hoffmann: _Beethoven's Instrumental music_ (1813/19 excerpt)

"Beethoven's instrumental music discloses to us
the realm of the tragic and the illimitable. Glowing beams pierce the
deep night of this realm and we are conscious of gigantic shadows which,
alternately increasing and decreasing, close in on us nearer and nearer,
destroying us but not destroying the pain of endless longing in which
is engulfed and lost every passion aroused by the exulting sounds.
And only through this very pain in which love, hope, and joy, consumed
but not destroyed, burst forth from our hearts in the deep-voiced harmony
of all the passions, do we go on living and become hypnotised seers of
visions!
[...]
Beethoven's music stirs the mists of fear, of horror, of terror, of
grief, and awakens that endless longing which is the very essence of
romanticism. He is consequently a purely romantic composer, and is
it not possible that for this very reason he is less successful in vocal music
which does not surrender itself to the characterization of indefinite
emotions but portrays effects specified by the words rather than those
indefinite emotions experienced in the realm of the infinite?
[..]
*What instrumental work of Beethoven testifies to this to a higher
degree than the* *immeasurably noble and profound Symphony in C
minor? How this marvellous composition carries the hearer irresistibly
with it in its ever-mounting climax into the spirit kingdom of the infinite! *

link to full translation of "Beethovens Instrumentalmusik"


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Great piece....this is major league orchestra repertoire.....I've played this more than any other symphony....playing it this weekend as a matter of fact. Wonderful woodwind writing...
The first movement is difficult, needs extreme rhythmic accuracy and forward propulsion...
Lots of amateur and community groups attempt it and do make a mess of it....bass part in trio of scherzo is tough, a standard audition lick for that instrument...the trombone parts in the finale are tough as well - the first part very high - Es and high F....
Reiner/CSO is my favorite, Toscanini/NBC is very great also...Szell, Solti are very good also....


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Favorite Recordings:

1. Carlos Kleiber - Vienna Philharmonic
2. Karajan - Berlin Philharmonic (1962)
3. Immerseel - Anima Eterna Brugge


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Xisten267 said:


> One of the most legendary, iconic and enduringly successful pieces in all of classical music. To me, "excellent" is not good enough and seems almost a derogatory word to describe this symphony.


Often I say to myself that someone could imagine this symphony and I do not say this about any other composer.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

For me, it is Beethoven's most perfect symphony. I would like to bring up Gunter Wand/NDR live performace of the 5th symphony paired with the 6th symphony. This is really a great performance. It was brought up on the Gramophone Good CD Guide 2000, described as "Furtwangerlish", well, it is out of print. I do not think it is underrated as this implies most listeners have heard it but do not regard it as special. I do not think it has been circulated enough to have a chance to be considered one of the greatest ones out there. For me, it is.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted excellent, first piece I ever saw in my life.
Favourites: in this order,

Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Carlos Kleiber

Orchestre des Concerts Lamoureux, Igor Markevitch

Chamber Orchestra of Europe Yannick Nézet-Séguin


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I adore the "chorus" of Movement 1 and the first half of Movement 3. I'll award a 5/6. I don't revere pieces of art 'because of lots of people' and I'm sure a fancy analysis would prove more informative, but it is a decent work, with both exciting moments and an overall cohesion, and I appreciate Kreisler jr's little Hoffmann quote.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Bigbang said:


> For me, it is Beethoven's most perfect symphony. I would like to bring up Gunter Wand/NDR live performace of the 5th symphony paired with the 6th symphony. This is really a great performance.


How different (and in which way) is this one to the NDR studio recording (probably a few years earlier, late 1980s, I believe)?

I got the C. Kleiber recording (on cassette) for my 16th birthday and I don't think I was ever before or after so obsessed with a piece of music. I listened to it almost everyday for many weeks or maybe months. I'd come home from school, have lunch, and afterwards put headphones on and listen to the 5th...


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

My favorite Beethoven Fifths are Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic (1962) and Solti/Vienna Philharmonic (1958).


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Brahmsian Colors said:


> My favorite Beethoven Fifths are Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic (1962) and Solti/Vienna Philharmonic (1958).


That Solti recording is really something. Very exciting, got my attention literally from the first bar. I need to revisit it.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Kreisler jr said:


> How different (and in which way) is this one to the NDR studio recording (probably a few years earlier, late 1980s, I believe)?


Both are close in timings but I like the live version better. The last movement is NOT expansive or made to sound majestic but rather like a true victory won on the battlefield. The hammer blows where the minor chords are driven out in a final push toward the final c major chords is done quite well. It is a matter of taste. I would add that jublilation would be the one word that conveys the last movement.

I like Klieber ok but given all the versions available hardly the best for me. There is a youtube live version Wand/NDR 1994, two years after the cd live version (1992), and both versions are very much alike.
And if you have access to freegal you can stream Wand/Beethoven.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

@Xisten267 Watis so funny?  I'm thorough in my rating, I just really enjoy those specific parts. Not really a piece that screams_ "5/6 - must listen"_ to me, but I think 5 is a fair category, possibly 4. If everyone wants to beat me up for rating their favorite one point too low, I'll be here.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Ethereality said:


> @Xisten267 Watis so funny?  I'm thorough in my rating, I just really enjoy those specific parts. Not really a piece that screams_ "5/6 - must listen"_ to me, but I think 5 is a fair category, possibly 4. If everyone wants to beat me up for rating their favorite one point too low, I'll be here.


I think it's funny when someone calls a major masterpiece of art a "decent work". But you're of course entitled to your opinions.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Xisten267 said:


> I think it's funny when someone calls a major masterpiece of art a "decent work". But you're of course entitled to your opinions.


Of course, we're each entitled to our true opinion. Thanks for clarifying 

Decent would describe everything else in this work, but what makes it a 5 are those parts I like. Often the case with Beethoven is I don't feel a need to keep relistening to his whole pieces, but I share the enthusiasm with my colleagues about his most iconic moments. I realize I sometimes encounter problems when I evaluate composers too holistically, and composers like Beethoven and Sibelius have increased slightly for me in the past few days because of my favorite moments especially in the string works.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

This iconic moment from Beethoven doesn't usually enter my mind as a 'listening necessity," but yet, if I were on a desert island I might deeply despair not having _the Eroica_ or moments like these to hear from time-to-time. You just don't find music like this or the Eroica anywhere.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

One thing that has always bugged me about the Carlos Kleiber is that in the all-important transition into the finale, it always sounds to me like a recording splice occurs right when the finale begins. There's a little skip in the sound that ruins the effect for me. Am I the only one who hears this?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> One thing that has always bugged me about the Carlos Kleiber is that in the all-important transition into the finale, it always sounds to me like a recording splice occurs right when the finale begins. There's a little skip in the sound that ruins the effect for me. Am I the only one who hears this?


Ive not heard that recording in years, so i don't recall, but that's a terrible place for a splice.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I don't recall this but I don't think I'd notice something like that. I wonder if there are some live Versions with Kleiber around?
My main quibble with the Kleiber is that the sound is sometimes rather opaque, mostly better than Karajan 1962, though, but less clear than the overall worse and rather thin sounding 1950s recording of Erich Kleiber! E.g. with Karajan the famous oboe solo appears "out of nowhere" because before there was a "wall of sound". But the woodwind do actually have relevant parts before that solo..  
If Erich had lived 10 years longer and recorded mostly in stereo, his would probably my favorite versions of any Mozart, Schubert, Beethoven symphonies...

Similarly, the Kleibers were among the first to play the reprise as written with the fanfare leading into the 2nd theme played by bassoons. The standard retouching was to have the horns play this like the first time around. The justification usually given is that it's only because it would have sounded badly in the other key with natural horns. But Beethoven could have demanded another pair (or an additional 3rd horn or, like Mozart in his 40th have one horn in C and one in Eb (and both would be doubled if one had enough players and a large orchestra). He didn't do this but rewrote the passage before (or after, don't remember exactly) giving stuff to bassoons and oboes they didn't have in the exposition.

But, apart from the massive coda of the first movement, my favorite parts with Carlos Kleiber, or where I think he is especially convincing are the middle movements. The slow movement with great contrasts between the lyrical theme & variations and the C major outbreaks. There is also a passage towards the end at or around the "piu mosso" that always appeared to me like a crowd being stirred up into action that Kleiber gets more convincing than most others (admittedly, I listen so rarely to the piece nowadays and almost never comparatively). And the great mix of violence and splendour of the 3rd movement is also brilliantly done.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> One thing that has always bugged me about the Carlos Kleiber is that in the all-important transition into the finale, it always sounds to me like a recording splice occurs right when the finale begins. There's a little skip in the sound that ruins the effect for me. Am I the only one who hears this?


I just looked it up and I could hear it on YouTube so I was surprised because I didn’t hear it before. Then I went to Spotify and I didn’t hear it. So I don’t know if physical versions have it or not? Anyway regarding the actual recording, I think it’s really good, and like @Kreisler jr said I find the middle movements the most convincing, for example for the first movement I actually prefer Karajan’s 63 recording


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## VoiceFromTheEther (Aug 6, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> The scherzo is brutal on cellos and basses.





Heck148 said:


> bass part in trio of scherzo is tough, a standard audition lick for that instrument..


Could any of you, gentlemen, tell me why that is? I failed to find anything worse than diatonic scale-like fast music without many markings or drastic changes in the contours of the figures. Why is the Scherzo considered the challenging part and not the finale?

Compare:
Movement 3








Movement 4


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

VoiceFromTheEther said:


> Could any of you, gentlemen, tell me why that is? I failed to find anything worse than diatonic scale-like fast music without many markings or drastic changes in the contours of the figures. Why is the Scherzo considered the challenging part...


Start of trio (not shown on excerpt)...fast, exposed, section soli....
Some other primeexamples - Mozart Sym #35 "Haffner" finale....all straight scales, arpeggios....but fast as hell....real test of section technique, accuracy

LvB - Leonore Overture #3- again - scales, diatonic...but fast, exposed....lots of notes...
These are audition standards....


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> One thing that has always bugged me about the Carlos Kleiber is that in the all-important transition into the finale, it always sounds to me like a recording splice occurs right when the finale begins. There's a little skip in the sound that ruins the effect for me. Am I the only one who hears this?


I hear that blip also. I can often hear splices if they mess up the attack just a bit, but this one is particularly bad.


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