# Simplicity: greatness or nuisance?



## Rhombic (Oct 28, 2013)

To paraphrase the existing thread "Greatness: simple query or nuisance?".
Is simplicity in music a geniality, something that should be achieved or not important?

Mozart, Haydn, Schubert... Bach, Stockhausen, Messiaen.

Of course. The dreaded minimalists too. But who can cope with listening during 20 minutes of their life to a simple major 3rd interval repeated in different simple patterns? It could almost be used as a torture device!


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

For the most part, simplicity is a good thing when it involves getting down to essential basics that are no clouded by your more cerebral types who often go overboard in throwing extraneous factors into the mix.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm going to start a new thread.

Nuisance: Simplistic or Great?


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Simplicity is great, if a composer knows how to present it in complex or innovative contexts or ways. Great composers know how to make something great out of simple ingredients, imo.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

scratchgolf said:


> I'm going to start a new thread.
> 
> Nuisance: Simplistic or Great?


Nuisance is definitely simplistic .


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I like *simplicity* - but what a *nuisance*, I am not *great *enough for my opinion to count.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Rhombic said:


> Of course. The dreaded minimalists too. But who can cope with listening during 20 minutes of their life to a simple major 3rd interval repeated in different simple patterns?


Me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Simplicity = Economy, Naturalness, Inevitability. Not a poverty of ingredients.

Not so easy to achieve, as Beethoven knew. He nevertheless achieved it time after time.

Yes, it is important.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2015)

Rhombic said:


> a simple major 3rd interval repeated in different simple patterns


Is this a fair or even representative depiction of minimalism?

Is this even a description of any particular minimalist piece?

You'll excuse me, I'm sure, if I go listen to 20 minutes of crackling bacon.

(Close, but no bacon: 



)

((And only about three minutes, too. Just put it on continuous loop.))


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Rhombic said:


> To paraphrase the existing thread "Greatness: simple query or nuisance?".
> Is simplicity in music a geniality, something that should be achieved or not important?
> 
> Mozart, Haydn, Schubert... Bach, Stockhausen, Messiaen.
> ...


We haven't had a hardcore anti-minimalism campaign here in about four years. Is it time for one again?


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

science said:


> We haven't had a hardcore anti-minimalism campaign here in about four years. Is it time for one again?


Hehe, I don't think any anti-campaign in matters of taste can have much of an impact (especially in the 21st century).


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2015)

Simplicity is an option. It can of course be achieved. It may or not be important for any particular creation.

Some of the best meals have only three ingredients.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

^^^ :tiphat: And even a staple ingredient can be made interesting with a few tweaks.

*Simplicity* - look at Folia, and its many manifestations from late medieval through to baroque.





What's not to like?


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

I hate it when people use "Occam's razor" to justify their stupidity.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Giordano said:


> I hate it when people use "Occam's razor" to justify their stupidity.


Indeed. Such people should be allowed only electric razors for their own safety.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Or we could insist that they stay bearded...


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Simplicity = Economy, Naturalness, Inevitability. Not a poverty of ingredients.
> 
> Not so easy to achieve, as Beethoven knew. He nevertheless achieved it time after time.
> 
> Yes, it is important.


If simplicity is natural then it's not something to "achieve." The very act of trying to achieve it is complicating the matter.

I just want to be simple, dammit! I'm trying so hard! Haha


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> Or we could insist that they stay bearded...


Hey, that's why I have whiskers!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Blake said:


> If simplicity is natural then it's not something to "achieve." The very act of trying to achieve it is complicating the matter.
> 
> I just want to be simple, dammit! I'm trying so hard! Haha


Simplicity isn't natural. Nothing in music _is_ natural. But to _sound_ natural is to _sound_ simple, no matter how complex.

Simple, eh? (Don't try too hard. You're doing fine. Haha!)


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Simplicity isn't natural. Nothing in music _is_ natural. But to _sound_ natural is to _sound_ simple, no matter how complex.
> 
> Simple, eh? (Don't try too hard. You're doing fine. Haha!)


Maybe it's all natural... who knows?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Rhombic said:


> To paraphrase the existing thread "Greatness: simple query or nuisance?".
> Is simplicity in music a geniality, something that should be achieved or not important?
> 
> Mozart, Haydn, Schubert... Bach, Stockhausen, Messiaen.
> ...


Did Mozart and Haydn really write simple music?

Anyway, one person who did write some simple music is Howard Skempton. Cornelius Cardew too. I don't really get the point of what they did, it was a political gesture I think.


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## Rhombic (Oct 28, 2013)

Actually, I think that we don't have the same definition for "simple". That would imply going into philosophy, but well...


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Rhombic said:


> Of course. The dreaded minimalists too. But who can cope with listening during 20 minutes of their life to a simple major 3rd interval repeated in different simple patterns? It could almost be used as a torture device!


I can listen to this. (B & F#, "to be held for a long time")

La Monte Young - Composition 1960 No. 7


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