# Wagner's poetry



## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

So, it's already established that Wagner was a musical genius, but what about his poetry (libretti)?

Any opinions on their literary quality?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Notung said:


> Any opinions on their literary quality?


Not on the pair with music for sure.

Sometimes he goes trivial and pretentious, expressing unparticular thoughts with fancy, overblown language. Sometimes he goes repetative and, as if to make it all least longer, makes characters go on and on about something that was already perfectly expressed before, repeat their statements and present already presented facts. There are many moments that can make you laugh. I like how in Siegfried, Alberich enters the forest at night and says "at night I'm entering the forest...". Such a smart way to set up time a place of action!

They're not entirely bad though. For positive example, I like how he depicted Loge, perhaps my favourite Ring character. This one is done very well.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Of tangential relevance is this discussion touching upon _Stabreim_ in the Ring cycle that can be found *here*.

Wagner-Librettist-Underrated.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Wagner's libretti work well enough on their own terms ; there's no use blaming them fo nnot being like
other opera librettos . Italian opera librettos for the operas of Verdi, Donizetti and Bellini tend to use
very stilted and formulaic Italian themselves . 
Those were the conventions of 19th century Italian librettos . The librettists tended to be hacks 
who produced formulaic librettos by the bushelful . Only Arrigo Boito among the librettists of the day
rose above this formulaic hckwork in his librettos for Verdi's final masterpieces Falstaff and Otello .
The librettists of Italian opers of the baroque and classical periods were similar hacks and their Italian
was possibly even more stilted . But composers such as Handel and Mozart were out to write operas
with effective music which would give singers a chance to show their chops, so it didn't really matter .
Many years ago I herad an LP of fascinting exceprts from Grieg's unfinished opera Ole Trgvasson ,
which was about the conversion of the medieval Norwegians from Norse paganism to Christianity .
There was a scene of worship of the Norse gods which featured Stabreim in Norwegian .
Apparently, this kind of allierative verse is a prominent feature of Norse and Germanic pagan
worship, so Wagner, who absorbed himself in Nordic and Germanic lore to write the Ring libretto ,
used this kind of alliteration for a definite reason .


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

I would add Leoncavallo's libretto for I Pagliacci among the short list of outside-the-box Italian librettos. The writing is unaffected verismo which does not fall into condescending dialect. And the lyrics meld inseparably with the music. Too bad Ruggiero had only one such masterpiece in him (unless of course you like Zaza).

Giacosa and Illica (the latter also wrote the complete libretto for the perfervid Andrea Chenier) also wrote librettos that were more than one notch above the standard that was current earlier in the 19th century.


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't think Wagner should be judged purely on his literary merits. His art was a unity of music, drama and text. To compare Wagner with Shakespeare or Milton would be like criticizing a film because after reading the script, you felt that it lacked literary interest. One can think of many films where the script is a minor element. Likewise, opera is inherently unable to function on the same level of dramatic complexity of a Shakespeare play. The simple reason is that one cannot sing too many lines in an opera, so the linguistic element is necessarily curtailed to some degree.

Wagner's merit as a poet is obviously far below Shakespeare's or Milton's. I happen to find the metaphysical imagery in Tristan overdone; my hunch is that it goes on for so long because Wagner realized he had hit on a great musical tapestry.

The Ring, however, has a strong dramatic impact, and I think it's his best libretto. In comparison to opera librettos in general, I would rank Wagner's in the highest rank, with those of Da Ponte, Boito and Hofmannsthal.


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## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

I'll give you my two favorite Wagner quotes from Reinzi and...Götterdammerung



> Allmächt'ger Vater, blick herab!
> Hör mich im Staube zu dir flehn!


Father allmighty, look this way. I'm in the dust, listen to me!



> Rüstig gezecht, bis der Rausch euch zähmt!


Drink deep till drunkenness overcomes you!


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

At least for me, opera isn't so much about the words as it is about the music. If Wagner had just written his libretti and left it at that, I'd suspect that nobody would bother reading them at all. But since Wagner's music is so good, I'm willing to put up with the shortcomings of the text.


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