# Do You Like Opera?



## SixFootScowl

I am posting this in the community forum because in the Opera forum the results will be very biased. It would likely also be biased in the Classical Music forum.


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## Huilunsoittaja

I love certain types of opera and get sick from others. I'm not a typical fan. I also enjoy playing opera a ton, and have a goal of being an opera orchestra flutist one day. So... For all intents and purposes I will say love for this poll because one day perhaps I'll warm up more to Verdi... Or Meyerbeer... My confirmed favorite opera composers: all the Russians but especially RK, Puccini, 20th century composers in general I think, and Mozart.


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## Don Fatale

I love listening, collecting, learning, talking about it, and most especially going to live performances. It's vital to who I am.


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## QuietGuy

I voted "I dislike opera". By enlarge, I do, but there are a few exceptions: I love Gershwin's _Porgy and Bess_, and Sondheim's quasi-operatic _Sweeney Todd_ all the way through both.

On the other hand there are individual arias from operas that I love: _Ain't It a Pretty Night_ from Susannah; _The Willow Song_ from Ballad of Baby Doe; _Sea Air_ from A Streetcar Named Desire; _Oh Had I Wings_ from Elmer Gantry; and _Must The Winter Come So Soon?_ from Vanessa, to name a few. It's the recitative in opera that I don't like.


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## joen_cph

I have a quite selective taste as regards operas I like a lot, and there´s a good deal I don´t like, at least so far. But I own a reasonable survey of the opera history as recordings & do give a lot of repertoire an occasional listen, so my taste probably isn´t static.


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## sospiro

Don Fatale said:


> I love listening, collecting, learning, talking about it, and most especially going to live performances. It's vital to who I am.


^^

What he said! I love old favourites and new stuff as well and I love concert performances.


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## hpowders

I've never met her. Is she nice? I know she has her own TV network now.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> I've never met her. Is she nice? I know she has her own TV network now.


I am surprised you didn't select the last option in the poll. But maybe you will now that you have your operahs straight.


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## Guest

You can vote "I don't want to vote" ... I gotta think about that one.


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## Ingélou

'I like opera'. 
It doesn't often come up this way, but when it does, I go for it.
I actually love some operas - but probably not the really meaty ones. 
For that I blame my silly uncultured self, though...


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## Kjetil Heggelund

I voted "don't want to vote" since I very seldom listen to opera but really liked to see Peter Grimes some years ago and L'Italiana in Algeri (lol).


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## hpowders

Florestan said:


> I am surprised you didn't select the last option in the poll. But maybe you will now that you have your operahs straight.


Oprahtion successfully completed.


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## ProudSquire

I like Opera a lot, can't say that I love it, but I enjoy it a great deal.


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## Jeff W

I'll be honest, opera has never done anything for me, so I guess I'm pretty indifferent towards the form.


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I love certain types of opera and get sick from others. I'm not a typical fan. I also enjoy playing opera a ton, and have a goal of being an opera orchestra flutist one day. So... For all intents and purposes I will say love for this poll because one day perhaps I'll warm up more to Verdi... Or Meyerbeer... My confirmed favorite opera composers: all the Russians but especially RK, Puccini, 20th century composers in general I think, and Mozart.


What Meyerbeer have you heard?


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Detest it, obviously.


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## Chronochromie

I voted "I love opera" as much of my favorite music is opera. You won't see me much on the opera forum however, because most of the talk there is related to things I either don't care (Rossini, Bellini and Donizetti) or know little about (Puccini, Wagner recordings, opera singers in general).


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## Antiquarian

I enjoy opera, with caveats. If the opera is in English or French, I have little trouble following the dramatic flow, and use the libretto only to help me with difficult scenes. Any other language, and I utterly depend upon the libretto for everything vocal. This divides my attention between the music and the plot ( at least for the first time through ) and I find that I don't enjoy it as much as I should. Only after listening to it a few times do I associate the music with the plot. What I am trying to convey here is that opera, for me, is a much more demanding but ultimately more rewarding form, because it takes effort and concentration to fully appreciate.


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## Pugg

I love opera, would be lost without it :tiphat:


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## Figleaf

Chronochromie said:


> I voted "I love opera" as much of my favorite music is opera. You won't see me much on the opera forum however, because most of the talk there is related to things I either don't care (Rossini, Bellini and Donizetti) or know little about (Puccini, Wagner recordings, opera singers in general).


Maybe you could start some threads on the opera forum about stuff you find interesting. It does get very samey in there with people obsessing over the same topics all the time, and when a new person with a different perspective joins, it's a breath of fresh air.


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## Guest

My hatred is admittedly based only upon the split seconds I accidently hear before I hit the radio off button. I detest that style of singing.


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## sospiro

dogen said:


> My hatred is admittedly based only upon the split seconds I accidently hear before I hit the radio off button. I detest that style of singing.


:lol:

No matter how many times people say "opera is fabulous, you only have to listen/watch and you'll fall in love with it!", ain't gonna happen unless you find it for yourself.


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## hpowders

After a lousy performance of Simon Boccanegra at the Met several years back, I was soooo glad there were plenty of bottles of Meyerbeer, Bud Light, in the fridge when I got home.


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## Guest

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> No matter how many times people say "opera is fabulous, you only have to listen/watch and you'll fall in love with it!", ain't gonna happen unless you find it for yourself.


I thought " hate" was not the right word, but having checked its meaning it appears to be exactly the right word, unfortunately.

Nevermind, my partner hates just about everything that I like (headphones are often required to maintain cordial relations...."What on earth is that godawful noise you've got on now?!?!!!")


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## Figleaf

dogen said:


> My hatred is admittedly based only upon the split seconds I accidently hear before I hit the radio off button. I detest that style of singing.


But it's not just _one style_, or it used not to be... 

FWIW I detest 'that style of singing' too and have to sprint to the off button nearly every time some operatic luminary of recent decades makes an appearance on Radio 3. Don't give up on pre 1950 recordings unless you really hate the sound quality that much- there's a huge diversity of voices, personalities, voice types, national schools etc, not some monolithic obnoxious wobblevoiced Opera Singing which all sounds the same.


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## Guest

Figleaf said:


> But it's not just _one style_, or it used not to be...
> 
> FWIW I detest 'that style of singing' too and have to sprint to the off button nearly every time some operatic luminary of recent decades makes an appearance on Radio 3. Don't give up on pre 1950 recordings unless you really hate the sound quality that much- there's a huge diversity of voices, personalities, voice types, national schools etc, not some monolithic obnoxious wobblevoiced Opera Singing which all sounds the same.


Old sound quality might be an issue but it's not just the singing, I find everything about it unappealing. The creepy personality cult fetish stuff is just some further icing on a fatty cake!


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## sospiro

hpowders said:


> After a lousy performance of Simon Boccanegra at the Met several years back, I was soooo glad there were plenty of bottles of *Meyerbeer*, Bud Light, in the fridge when I got home.


I didn't know he brewed beer as well as composing operas.


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## gardibolt

"I don't want to vote in this poll" made me laugh out loud. Well played.


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## Belowpar

Figleaf said:


> Maybe you could start some threads on the opera forum about stuff you find interesting. It does get very samey in there with people obsessing over the same topics all the time, and when a new person with a different perspective joins, it's a breath of fresh air.


I agree with all of this. I mean the recent arrival Simon Templar detests Opera and just see how many threads he's enlivened!

My ears and eyes have been opened to a lot of new stuff on here and you don't have to hang around the forum for long before you will see that everyone's ideas of what good Opera actually is, varies considerably.

Opera makes life better for me. Love I guess.


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## Pugg

dogen said:


> I thought " hate" was not the right word, but having checked its meaning it appears to be exactly the right word, unfortunately.
> 
> Never mind, my partner hates just about everything that I like (headphones are often required to maintain cordial relations...."What on earth is that godawful noise you've got on now?!?!!!")


If you have the receipt you can always change your partner


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## Belowpar

There was a time when I felt the same. 

First it was the overtures and interludes... Then the chorus's... and then without me noticing....

I'm not going to try and convince anyone to listen to this or that, but aren't you even a little curious what bunch of people on here you respect enough to hand out with hear in it?


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## Guest

Pugg said:


> If you have the receipt you can always change your partner


Don't think it's still valid after 26 years!


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## Chronochromie

Figleaf said:


> Maybe you could start some threads on the opera forum about stuff you find interesting. It does get very samey in there with people obsessing over the same topics all the time, and when a new person with a different perspective joins, it's a breath of fresh air.


I was thinking about making a thread on Berlioz operas...maybe I will, at some point.


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## Figleaf

dogen said:


> Old sound quality might be an issue but it's not just the singing, I find everything about it unappealing. The creepy personality cult fetish stuff is just some further icing on a fatty cake!


I'd like to refute the creepy fetish accusation, but that would only expose me to well-founded charges of hypocrisy.  Seriously though, your complaints merely convince me that you are temperamentally unsuited to the more 'opera queen'-ish type of fandom. Opera is a broad church, and somewhere within it there's a pew with 'dogen' inscribed on it. Nevertheless, I think I will take sospiro's wise advice and let you find your own way there!


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## Figleaf

Chronochromie said:


> I was thinking about making a thread on Berlioz operas...maybe I will, at some point.


That would be interesting. Most of the discussion of those has tended to focus on this recording versus that recording, which is sometimes reminiscent of 'discussions' between supporters of rival soccer teams.  (Or maybe I'm just sore because my team always loses...) It would be nice to have a different take on these interesting works, which I don't know well enough.


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## Dr Johnson

Figleaf said:


> I'd like to refute the creepy fetish accusation, but that would only expose me to well-founded charges of hypocrisy.  Seriously though, your complaints merely convince me that you are temperamentally unsuited to the more 'opera queen'-ish type of fandom. Opera is a broad church, and somewhere within it *there's a pew with 'dogen' inscribed on it.* Nevertheless, I think I will take sospiro's wise advice and let you find your own way there!


If there's a pew with "Dr Johnson" inscribed on it, please could you set fire to it? :devil:


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## Mahlerian

I chose "like." Although I love the operas that I listen to (Mozart, Wagner, Monteverdi, Berg, Debussy, Schoenberg), I'm not the opera fan that many here are, and I usually don't contribute to the opera forum because I don't feel I have much to contribute. I appreciate opera as music first, drama second, and virtuoso vehicle third. For some there, that order seems reversed.


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## Chronochromie

Figleaf said:


> Most of the discussion of those has tended to focus on this recording versus that recording,


Which is why you won't see me on the Saturday symphony thread either!


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## hpowders

sospiro said:


> I didn't know he brewed beer as well as composing operas.


When operas are that long and unpopular, it pays to have an alternate profession....in this case, a perfect symbiosis.


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## hpowders

Dr Johnson said:


> If there's a pew with "Dr Johnson" inscribed on it, please could you set fire to it? :devil:


Only if accompanied by The Doors' "Light My Fire"; supertitles unnecessary.


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## SixFootScowl

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> No matter how many times people say "opera is fabulous, you only have to listen/watch and you'll fall in love with it!", ain't gonna happen unless you find it for yourself.


Yep. When I got my first opera DVD, Fidelio with Janowitz, I loved it. Then I told my son about it because he is a big Beethoven fan, and he was like, no way, not interested in opera. But after I teased him with a few clips he gave in and watched it with me and proceeded to buy his own copy! Then my second opera, La Cenerentola with von Stade, and I told him he should watch it, but he thought Fidelio was it, and that he would not like any other operas. After a few teasing clips, he was hooked again.


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## Figleaf

Chronochromie said:


> Which is why you won't see me on the Saturday symphony thread either!


It's really hard to talk about music _as music_ when you don't have the requisite training- that's my problem, anyway. Others who enjoy the 'my favourite singer is better than your favourite singer' type of debate (harmless fun while we're civil to one another) are keen to emphasise how much technical knowledge they have, so lack of expertise doesn't totally account for the preoccupation with recordings. Once again, I would say that a fresh perspective such as your own is bound to be a good thing!

(Re Berlioz, I would never have discovered his 'Romeo et Juliette' if I hadn't been casually browsing the Saturday Symphony thread... and then begun scouring the internet for a recording with a singer I liked, incorrigible opera forum person that I am! )


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## Figleaf

hpowders said:


> Only if accompanied by The Doors' "Light My Fire"; supertitles unnecessary.


Maybe posthumous proximity to some of the greatest singers who ever lived has converted Jim Morrison to opera... :devil:


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## hpowders

Figleaf said:


> Maybe posthumous proximity to some of the greatest singers who ever lived has converted Jim Morrison to opera... :devil:


That's as likely as converting this writer to Prince.


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## Figleaf

hpowders said:


> That's as likely as converting this writer to *Prince*.


Tell me about it... and now may not be the best time to openly wonder what his appeal was.


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## SixFootScowl

Figleaf said:


> Maybe posthumous proximity to some of the greatest singers who ever lived has converted Jim Morrison to opera... :devil:


Actually, had he lived, I could see him doing a really strange opera. He was a poet and I once had a vinyl LP of him reciting some of his poetery. The man could have put some of that stuff into an opera with help from others. Perhaps Jimi Hendrix could have put the music together had he lived. Jimi was going to explore all sorts of music outside the traditional rock/blues arena. Wasn't Jimi thinking of orchestral stuff after building his studio (Electric Ladyland). Or maybe Frank Zappa could have set music to a Jim Morrison opera?


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## hpowders

Figleaf said:


> Tell me about it... and now may not be the best time to openly wonder what his appeal was.


I thought the Pope died. 24/7 coverage on US cable news.

Let's see now....Verdi or Prince....give me some time to think about it.


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## Chronochromie

Figleaf said:


> It's really hard to talk about music _as music_ when you don't have the requisite training- that's my problem, anyway.


That's my problem too, and probably part of why I haven't made any threads yet. I'll figure something out, maybe...


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## Figleaf

hpowders said:


> I thought the Pope died. 24/7 coverage on US cable news.
> 
> Let's see now....Verdi or Prince....give me some time to think about it.


It's funny how these pop stars die and it's a huge topic of conversation IRL, yet in all of my nearly four decades on the planet I've never knowingly met a Prince fan... he was just the skinny naked guy on the front of an LP in Woolworths as far as I was concerned. It's as if people are mourning a part of their youth, or maybe they just don't have much else to talk about. When Verdi died it must have been all that and more: he was so old most people would never have known the world without him, and he was AFAIK the last great Italian composer of his kind, uninfluenced by the _giovane scuola_ and not slavishly imatative of Wagner. When a pop star dies it's obviously awful for the fans, but, at the risk of sounding heartless, it's not really a defining cultural moment because the commercial music machine continues to churn out more of the same.


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## SixFootScowl

Figleaf said:


> It's funny how these pop stars die and it's a huge topic of conversation IRL, yet in all of my nearly four decades on the planet I've never knowingly met a Prince fan... he was just the skinny naked guy on the front of an LP in Woolworths as far as I was concerned. It's as if people are mourning a part of their youth, or maybe they just don't have much else to talk about. When Verdi died it must have been all that and more: he was so old most people would never have known the world without him, and he was AFAIK the last great Italian composer of his kind, uninfluenced by the _giovane scuola_ and not slavishly imatative of Wagner. When a pop star dies it's obviously awful for the fans, but, at the risk of sounding heartless, it's not really a defining cultural moment because the commercial music machine continues to churn out more of the same.


Wait till Bob Dylan dies (and he already looks like he has one foot--er lung--in the grave)! That will be some media event! But IMO he is far more worthy of the coverage than Prince.


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## Figleaf

Florestan said:


> Wait till Bob Dylan dies (and he already looks like he has one foot--er lung--in the grave)! That will be some media event! But IMO he is far more worthy of the coverage than Prince.


Yep, and all the pundits will immediately forget the uncharitable things they all said about his Christian phase and late concert performances! :devil:

Personally I reserve the right to blub like a baby if anything happens to Richard Hawley, but otherwise there isn't any living pop star I have strong feelings about- excepting the venerable Leonard Cohen, who is far too old now to die young!


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## GreenMamba

The internet makes everything seem like overkill. On top of that, we have more TV stations, etc. 

I don't think this really has that much to do with fans themselves, other than they happen to live in a time when everything is magnified.


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## hpowders

Figleaf said:


> It's funny how these pop stars die and it's a huge topic of conversation IRL, yet in all of my nearly four decades on the planet I've never knowingly met a Prince fan... he was just the skinny naked guy on the front of an LP in Woolworths as far as I was concerned. It's as if people are mourning a part of their youth, or maybe they just don't have much else to talk about. When Verdi died it must have been all that and more: he was so old most people would never have known the world without him, and he was AFAIK the last great Italian composer of his kind, uninfluenced by the _giovane scuola_ and not slavishly imatative of Wagner. When a pop star dies it's obviously awful for the fans, but, at the risk of sounding heartless, it's not really a defining cultural moment because the commercial music machine continues to churn out more of the same.


I was home reading and I heard the news on the TV in the other room. The newscaster articulated with such passionate urgency that my first thought was that Queen Elizabeth outlived Prince Charles.


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## Figleaf

hpowders said:


> I was home reading and I heard the news on the TV in the other room. The newscaster articulated with such passionate urgency that my first thought was that Queen Elizabeth outlived Prince Charles.


:lol: Had that been the case, the cheers would have been audible from the other side of the Atlantic!


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## hpowders

On one of my rare "getting back to the topics" I had a subscription to the Metropolitan Opera for many years and I do like opera very much, with an encyclopedic collection to prove it.


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## hpowders

Figleaf said:


> :lol: Had that been the case, the cheers would have been audible from the other side of the Atlantic!


I wonder if Charles and the other Prince, Obama are related. There is a facial resemblance.

I'm all ears if you have any information on this.


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## Sloe

Figleaf said:


> It's funny how these pop stars die and it's a huge topic of conversation IRL, yet in all of my nearly four decades on the planet I've never knowingly met a Prince fan... he was just the skinny naked guy on the front of an LP in Woolworths as far as I was concerned. It's as if people are mourning a part of their youth, or maybe they just don't have much else to talk about. When Verdi died it must have been all that and more: he was so old most people would never have known the world without him, and he was AFAIK the last great Italian composer of his kind, uninfluenced by the _giovane scuola_ and not slavishly imatative of Wagner. When a pop star dies it's obviously awful for the fans, but, at the risk of sounding heartless, it's not really a defining cultural moment because the commercial music machine continues to churn out more of the same.


He was a fine musician.
When it comes to Italian opera and opera in general I have a tendency to prefer the operas of the composers from the giovane scuola and the following generazione dell'ottanta there is something that strikes me immediately with many of these operas.


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## hpowders

Florestan said:


> Wait till Bob Dylan dies (and he already looks like he has one foot--er lung--in the grave)! That will be some media event! But IMO he is far more worthy of the coverage than Prince.


He has the number one song of all time according to Rolling Stone magazine's "500 Greatest Songs".

Couldn't find "Que gelida manina". Must be in the top 1000.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> On one of my rare "getting back to the topics" I had a subscription to the Metropolitan Opera for many years and I do like opera very much, with an encyclopedic collection to prove it.


How about you give us the short list of your favorites.

Since you have an encyclopedic collection, how do you like Auber's Haydee? I just watched it on DVD and thought it absolutely wonderful. Also reminds me of Fidelio in that a woman saves the man from destruction.


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## hpowders

Florestan said:


> How about you give us the short list of your favorites.
> 
> Since you have an encyclopedic collection, how do you like Auber's Haydee? I just watched it on DVD and thought it absolutely wonderful. Also reminds me of Fidelio in that a woman saves the man from destruction.


So many. Peter Grimes, Il Trovatore, Simon Boccanegra, Giulio Cesare, Semele, Cavalleria Rusticana, Wozzeck, Billy Budd, Turendot and Il Trittico for starters.


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## sospiro

hpowders said:


> So many. Peter Grimes, Il Trovatore, Simon Boccanegra, Giulio Cesare, Semele, Cavalleria Rusticana, Wozzeck, Billy Budd, Turendot and Il Trittico for starters.


:clap:

Lovely! That brief list demonstrates the wonderful diversity of opera.


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## znapschatz

dogen said:


> Don't think it's still valid after 26 years!


Oh, too bad! Just over the 25 year warranty period, rotten timing. Better luck next time  .


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## znapschatz

Figleaf said:


> It's funny how these pop stars die and it's a huge topic of conversation IRL, yet in all of my nearly four decades on the planet I've never knowingly met a Prince fan... he was just the skinny naked guy on the front of an LP in Woolworths as far as I was concerned. It's as if people are mourning a part of their youth, or maybe they just don't have much else to talk about. When Verdi died it must have been all that and more: he was so old most people would never have known the world without him, and he was AFAIK the last great Italian composer of his kind, uninfluenced by the _giovane scuola_ and not slavishly imatative of Wagner. When a pop star dies it's obviously awful for the fans, but, at the risk of sounding heartless, it's not really a defining cultural moment because the commercial music machine continues to churn out more of the same.


When Verdi was ill, people spread the street before his home with straw to deaden the sound of traffic passing by. When he died, 
300,000 mourners followed the funeral cortege. God bless them, you gotta love those kinds of Italians.


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## Pugg

dogen said:


> Don't think it's still valid after 26 years!


One can try, perhaps not a refund, just a new one


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## ArtMusic

Opera and classical music are one. Pure and simple.


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## Meyerbeer Smith

hpowders said:


> After a lousy performance of Simon Boccanegra at the Met several years back, I was soooo glad there were plenty of bottles of Meyerbeer, Bud Light, in the fridge when I got home.


A Meyerbeer fan?


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Chronochromie said:


> I was thinking about making a thread on Berlioz operas...maybe I will, at some point.


Fantastic idea! We need more love for Berlioz's operas!


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## Meyerbeer Smith

hpowders said:


> When operas are that long and unpopular, it pays to have an alternate profession....in this case, a perfect symbiosis.


Yeah, but they were hugely popular in the 19th century. And ought to be popular again!


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Florestan said:


> How about you give us the short list of your favorites.
> 
> Since you have an encyclopedic collection, how do you like Auber's Haydee? I just watched it on DVD and thought it absolutely wonderful. Also reminds me of Fidelio in that a woman saves the man from destruction.


Right! That does it! I'm starting an Auber thread!


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## Guest

Well I can cross Wozzeck off my list. As dire as expected.

I think my only hope is an opera that doesn't involve singing.

(Technical question: do they think they are acting?)


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## Varick

dogen said:


> I thought " hate" was not the right word, but having checked its meaning it appears to be exactly the right word, unfortunately.
> 
> Nevermind, my partner hates just about everything that I like (headphones are often required to maintain cordial relations...."What on earth is that godawful noise you've got on now?!?!!!")


Are you having an affair with my wife?



dogen said:


> Don't think it's still valid after 26 years!


OMG, you've known my wife longer than I have!

I voted "Like" because I enjoy a handful of Operas (I own about 6 or 7) and outside of some of the more familiar arias, know very little about A LOT of Opera. It's not a genre I think about nor crave often. It's more of a, "Oh look, one of my operas. I need to listen to that again soon."

I'd rather go right to the arias and chorus, and dismiss all the recitatives.

I remember asking my first boss after college in a classical music management company if he enjoyed going to the Opera. I'll never forget what he said (He spoke just like a slightly higher pitched version of Alfred Hitchcock), _"The problem with most Operas is that you get either great singers who are terrible actors, or great actors who are terrible singers. The two rarely go hand in hand which is why I'd rather listen to recordings."_

V


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## Guest

My dear Varick,
Yes. And I drink your whisky too.
Regards,
dogen.


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## Varick

dogen said:


> My dear Varick,
> Yes. And I drink your whisky too.
> Regards,
> dogen.


B!+ch!



I knew my levels were low!

V


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## Figleaf

dogen said:


> Well I can cross Wozzeck off my list. As dire as expected.
> 
> I think my only hope is an opera that doesn't involve singing.
> 
> (Technical question: do they think they are acting?)


Yes, dire. This reminds me, though, that I must download this version here, the free clip from which is very tantalizing:

http://www.ina.fr/audio/PHZ02004821

That's a really excellent cast and they seem to make the 'music' almost listenable. You know how people say 'I could listen to X singing the phone book'? Well it's not as mellifluous as the phone book, but the principle's the same. 

What do you think of Messiaen's 'St François d'Assise'? There's an excellent recording in several parts on youtube and it's modern like the stuff you like, but unlike Wozzeck it's actually music, beautiful music too. :tiphat:


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## Mahlerian

Figleaf said:


> Yes, dire. This reminds me, though, that I must download this version here, the free clip from which is very tantalizing:
> 
> http://www.ina.fr/audio/PHZ02004821
> 
> That's a really excellent cast and they seem to make the 'music' almost listenable. You know how people say 'I could listen to X singing the phone book'? Well it's not as mellifluous as the phone book, but the principle's the same.
> 
> What do you think of Messiaen's 'St François d'Assise'? There's an excellent recording in several parts on youtube and it's modern like the stuff you like, but unlike Wozzeck it's actually music, beautiful music too. :tiphat:


Wozzeck is not only music, it's excellent music. Much of it is harsh, yes, but for dramatic reasons, and some of it is also quite beautiful.


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## Figleaf

Mahlerian said:


> Wozzeck is not only music, it's excellent music. Much of it is harsh, yes, but for dramatic reasons, and some of it is also quite beautiful.


I think I couldn't hear beyond the harshness. I thought dogen might be able to because he likes modern stuff which can be 'challenging'- it's interesting that he doesn't. I think that French Wozzeck probably represents my best chance of liking it, but I suspect I'm some way off including it among my favourite operas!


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## DiesIraeCX

You learn something new every day - _Wozzeck_ is not music.

I have ben edukated.


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## Figleaf

DiesIraeCX said:


> You learn something new every day - _Wozzeck_ is not music.
> 
> I have ben edukated.


OK, it _technically is_ music, obviously. It just sounds extraordinarily unpleasant to me. I replied to dogen because it appears to me that Wozzeck may not be the best introduction to opera for him personally- the evidence for that being that he didn't like it.


----------



## DiesIraeCX

Figleaf said:


> OK, it _technically is_ music, obviously. It just sounds extraordinarily unpleasant to me. I replied to dogen because it appears to me that Wozzeck may not be the best introduction to opera for him personally- the evidence for that being that he didn't like it.


That's completely fair, of course. I would maybe even agree that _Wozzeck_, as you say, isn't the best introduction to opera, in general. Maybe I'm off-base.

I wonder how he went about it, though. Speaking for myself, it wasn't until I saw Parsifal, followed along with the story, visuals, and music, that it finally hit me just how powerful opera could be!

If it's the singing that puts dogen off, then he could do what I do sometimes - he could follow along with the text/libretto while concentrating on the orchestral music, thereby maintaining his focus on the music and the story, with minimal attention being paid to the singing itself. I love the singing, but I find it helps me with being completely enveloped by the opera. I like to try different strategies for opera.


----------



## Guest

Figleaf said:


> What do you think of Messiaen's 'St François d'Assise'? There's an excellent recording in several parts on youtube and it's modern like the stuff you like, but unlike Wozzeck it's actually music, beautiful music too. :tiphat:


I found it as enjoyable, sorry. I have albums by Berg and Messiaen so I'm not averse to them as composers; it's the form and the singing. No doubt many of the composers I like write opera but I just don't venture there (eg Haas) and these two little toes in the water only confirm my existing attitude. No doubt my loss. I shall drown my sorrows with some more of Varick's excellent single malts. :tiphat:


----------



## Figleaf

DiesIraeCX said:


> That's completely fair, of course. I would maybe even agree that _Wozzeck_, as you say, isn't the best introduction to opera, in general. Maybe I'm off-base.
> 
> I wonder how he went about it, though. Speaking for myself, it wasn't until I saw Parsifal, followed along with the story, visuals, and music, that it finally hit me just how powerful opera could be!
> 
> If it's the singing that puts dogen off, then he could do what I do sometimes - he could follow along with the text/libretto while concentrating on the orchestral music, thereby maintaining his focus on the music and the story, with minimal attention being paid to the singing itself. I love the singing, but I find it helps me with being completely enveloped by the opera. I like to try different strategies for opera.


I think you're right- it really does depend on the person. Someone will pop up and say 'Wozzeck was my first opera and I loved it!' and more power to their elbow. For me it was very early recordings which I thought were about the singers rather than the music, and it was a long time before I listened to a whole opera. In fact, talking of Wagner, it was only a couple of months ago that I heard 'Der fliegender Holländer' for the first time, and I wasn't aware of knowing any of the music already. Picture my surprise when I immediately recognised 'Durch Gewitter und Sturm...' which I knew and loved in a tremendous 1902 recording by Franz Pacal, yet I had never noticed the name of the opera the piece was from! Dogen's journey into opera, if it occurs at all, will probably take a different form, but it just goes to show that the 'Why don't you just watch a DVD of 'La Boheme'?' type of advice for newbies isn't always the best.


----------



## Mahlerian

Figleaf said:


> I think you're right- it really does depend on the person. Someone will pop up and say 'Wozzeck was my first opera and I loved it!' and more power to their elbow.


I read an anecdote where a couple went to their first live opera and it was Moses und Aron (generally considered a more "difficult" work than Wozzeck, and certainly rarer on the stage), and they loved it.

My first exposure to opera, a full opera, was Die Walkure from Solti's Ring cycle. I had never listened through a whole opera in my life and I was hooked.


----------



## Chronochromie

Figleaf said:


> I think you're right- it really does depend on the person. Someone will pop up and say 'Wozzeck was my first opera and I loved it!' and more power to their elbow. For me it was very early recordings which I thought were about the singers rather than the music, and it was a long time before I listened to a whole opera. In fact, talking of Wagner, it was only a couple of months ago that I heard 'Der fliegender Holländer' for the first time, and I wasn't aware of knowing any of the music already. Picture my surprise when I immediately recognised 'Durch Gewitter und Sturm...' which I knew and loved in a tremendous 1902 recording by Franz Pacal, yet I had never noticd the name of the opera the piece was from! Dogen's journey into opera, if it occurs at all, will probably take a different form, but it just goes to show that the 'Why don't you just watch a DVD of 'La Boheme'?' type of advice for newbies isn't always the best.


Well, Wozzeck was among the first ten operas that I listened to and I liked it on first listen. But by that time I already loved Berg's music and liked other operas.


----------



## starthrower

Not all the time. I own about 30 operas, but I usually listen to them in the winter months when I'm stuck in the house.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I love opera. I have at least 300 complete recordings of operas (if not more) to say nothing of a slew of recitals, highlights, and such. My first complete opera was... of all things... Philip Glass' _Einstein on the Beach_, followed by _Tristan und Isolde_ and _Parsifal_. The first opera that I "saw" was much more traditional: _La Traviata_ (the Zeffirelli film) and the first opera I attended IRL was _Aida_. That final experience sealed my fate, making me a bona fida opera fanatic.


----------



## schigolch

Figleaf said:


> I think I couldn't hear beyond the harshness. I thought dogen might be able to because he likes modern stuff which can be 'challenging'- it's interesting that he doesn't. I think that French Wozzeck probably represents my best chance of liking it, but I suspect I'm some way off including it among my favourite operas!


It could be also interesting to see how another composer addressed the same dramatic challenges of "Wozzeck", but with somehow different solutions than Berg. This is Manfred Gurlitt's "Wozzeck":


----------



## ArtMusic

Nearly all the great composers wrote opera and were influenced by it. Bach did not strictly write any operas but he wrote large scale secular cantatas with operatic arias that clearly showed he studied and enjoyed the form. Opera is part of western classical music heritage.


----------



## Sloe

ArtMusic said:


> Nearly all the great composers wrote opera and were influenced by it. Bach did not strictly write any operas but he wrote large scale secular cantatas with operatic arias that clearly showed he studied and enjoyed the form. Opera is part of western classical music heritage.


Bruckner never wrote an opera as an example of an exception.


----------



## Krummhorn

I've only been to one opera performance in my life and that was in Budapest to see Tannhauser while on a music tour in 1992. I was thrilled with the music - the orchestra was top notch (I cannot recall who they were or who was conducting) but it was in absolutely incredible. 

I have a recording of the music for La Boheme and love listening to that when I can. So I guess I have a greater appreciation for the music of opera rather than all the stage artistry and pageantry that goes along with it all. 

Kh


----------



## Jeffrey Smith

Sloe said:


> Bruckner never wrote an opera as an example of an exception.


Technically, Mahler wrote none, although he did complete Die Drei Pintos, and I tend to think of Klagende Lied as a proto opera. A bit surprising, since he was in his own time best known for his position at the Vienna State Opera....but perhaps his role there left him uninterested in actually writing a full opera.


----------



## Jeffrey Smith

Two more obvious exceptions: Chopin and Webern.


----------



## Mahlerian

Jeffrey Smith said:


> Two more obvious exceptions: Chopin and Webern.


Not going to mention Brahms?


----------



## Guest

dogen said:


> You can vote "I don't want to vote" ... I gotta think about that one.


No thinking needed...it was just irresistible!

Oh, and thread duty: no, I'm not a fan of opera, though that's not opera's fault. I've simply never felt drawn to listen to one (although I know there are some great tunes) and only once to go to one (Carmen).

Besides, I'm too busy with symphonies.


----------



## ArtMusic

Sloe said:


> Bruckner never wrote an opera as an example of an exception.


Bruckner, Brahms etc. a pocket of minorities.


----------



## Jeffrey Smith

Mahlerian said:


> Not going to mention Brahms?


He was so obvious I forgot about him.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

ArtMusic said:


> Bruckner, Brahms etc. a pocket of minorities.


They did write quite a bit of choral music though. There are composers that almost never touched the voice.


----------



## Tristan

Opera was actually the first classical music I was exposed to. "Largo al factotum" may have been the first recording I ever played. I love opera, though sometimes I do find it takes a commitment to listen to and I often don't have the time for it that I would like. I have an extensive vinyl opera collection and am only making it bigger


----------



## Harmonie

I'm afraid I do not much care for opera. The only one I listen to is Purcell's _Dido and Aeneas_. That one is actually very pretty, or at least the recording I have of it is. Beyond that, I really can't listen to opera aside from the vocal-less overtures.


----------



## Guest

God I feel lonely in this poll.


----------



## joen_cph

Brahms´ cantata _Rinaldo_ actually has theatrical elements, one could say (a silent female figure appearing etc.) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinaldo_(cantata)


----------



## Pugg

dogen said:


> God I feel lonely in this poll.


Poor you.


----------



## joen_cph

dogen said:


> God I feel lonely in this poll.


I wonder how much / how varied opera you´ve heard - they can be quite different from each other, to say the least ...


----------



## sospiro

dogen said:


> God I feel lonely in this poll.












What _do_ you like?


----------



## Guest

sospiro said:


> What _do_ you like?


How long have you got?!

I'm not anti-voice. I just don't like the aspects of opera that make it "opera."


----------



## Guest

joen_cph said:


> I wonder how much / how varied opera you´ve heard - they can be quite different from each other, to say the least ...


The little I've experienced does have the aspects I find off-putting, mainly the style of singing, the costumes, the "narrative." I guess I've seen/heard Wagner, Verdi, Glass, Stockhausen, Mozart, Adams...


----------



## sospiro

dogen said:


> How long have you got?!
> 
> I'm not anti-voice. I just don't like the aspects of opera that make it "opera."


I understand. I was just the same up until about eight years ago.


----------



## Guest

Just to show I'm not anti-voice! - some of my favourite works include Gorecki's 3rd Symphony, Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, Scelsi's Uaxutum and Pärt's Te Deum...


----------



## joen_cph

For East-European or Northern expressiveness, I´d go for

1) _King Roger_, including the Gorecki-like Roxana´s Song 




2) the monumental first half hour of _Boris Godunov _ with Ermler/Nesterenko. In an otherwise splendid recording, the soprano has too big a voice: 





3) Saariaho _L´Amour de Loin _(not on you-t). Traits of avant-garde too.


----------



## SixFootScowl

dogen said:


> The little I've experienced does have the aspects I find off-putting, mainly the style of singing, the costumes, the "narrative." I guess I've seen/heard Wagner, Verdi, Glass, Stockhausen, Mozart, Adams...


Well maybe what you need is a good Rossini opera. How about Barber of Seville?


----------



## arpeggio

Only when they are not singing.


----------



## Guest

I could cope with the Roxana, Boris probably not and the Barber I'm afraid was a perfect example of why I hate opera, grown men prancing around in tights singing Aha ha ha ha ha huh ha ha. I'd have to pluck my own eyes out rather than sit through that!


----------



## Xenakiboy

While I'm not fanatical about opera as a genre/category, I can't deny my love/fascination for Wagner's Ring Cycle and Stockhausen's Licht, though Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle is one of my *favorite* works, so I am open to it.


----------



## Pugg

dogen said:


> I could cope with the Roxana, Boris probably not and the Barber I'm afraid was a perfect example of why I hate opera, grown men prancing around in tights singing Aha ha ha ha ha huh ha ha. I'd have to pluck my own eyes out rather than sit through that!


Thanks goodness for different taste though


----------



## arpeggio

I have addressed this in other threads and I still feel the same way.

I listen to opera primarily for the music. Most of the time I do not know what the plot is. I used to hate opera until I learned to concentrate on the music.

Interesting example, one of the few Wagnerian operas that I like is Tristan and Isolde. When I finally got around to seeing it I thought it was completely inane. Still love the music.


----------



## GreenMamba

arpeggio said:


> I have addressed this in other threads and I still feel the same way.
> 
> I listen to opera primarily for the music. Most of the time I do not know what the plot is. I used to hate opera until I learned to concentrate on the music.


I'm probably closer to the opposite. I certainly like the music, but I expect the story to be engaging. I don't hold opera to standards of gritty realism, though. It's stylized. That's fine.


----------



## Varick

dogen said:


> Just to show I'm not anti-voice! - some of my favourite works include Gorecki's 3rd Symphony, Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, Scelsi's Uaxutum and Pärt's Te Deum...


Well those are "choral" works. I love Choral works and I do enjoy a great aria. However, I am not a big "solo voice" fan. Lieder usually leaves me a bit dry and wanting to hear instruments more than the accompaniment. I think I like certain arias because the music itself is often as melodic as the singing and often there are more instruments accompanying the voice. I guess that's why I don't like recitatives in Opera either.

V


----------



## SixFootScowl

dogen said:


> I could cope with the Roxana, Boris probably not and the Barber I'm afraid was a perfect example of why I hate opera, grown men prancing around in tights singing Aha ha ha ha ha huh ha ha. I'd have to pluck my own eyes out rather than sit through that!


Perhaps Beethoven's opera, Fidelio. It is very different in style than other operas. It was my entry into the world of Opera.


----------



## arpeggio

(Deleted by author. Messed up response.)


----------



## arpeggio

GreenMamba said:


> I'm probably closer to the opposite. I certainly like the music, but I expect the story to be engaging. I don't hold opera to standards of gritty realism, though. It's stylized. That's fine.


To each his own. We each have to follow our own path to opera, baroque, Mahler or whatever. This is why I no longer buy into the one size fits all approach.


----------



## Guest

Varick said:


> Well those are "choral" works. I love Choral works and I do enjoy a great aria. However, I am not a big "solo voice" fan. Lieder usually leaves me a bit dry and wanting to hear instruments more than the accompaniment. I think I like certain arias because the music itself is often as melodic as the singing and often there are more instruments accompanying the voice. I guess that's why I don't like recitatives in Opera either.
> 
> V


Well, the Gorecki is solo soprano.


----------



## Guest

Florestan said:


> Perhaps Beethoven's opera, Fidelio. It is very different in style than other operas. It was my entry into the world of Opera.


It's on as we speak.

I think I'm a lost cause.


----------



## Figleaf

dogen said:


> It's on as we speak.
> 
> I think I'm a lost cause.


Most boring opera of all time (apart from Parsifal).


----------



## Varick

dogen said:


> Well, the Gorecki is solo soprano.


Very true. It's like a long beautifully haunting aria!

V


----------



## Pugg

Varick said:


> Very true. It's like a long beautifully haunting aria!
> 
> V


No opera though


----------



## hpowders

Figleaf said:


> Most boring opera of all time (apart from Parsifal).


I agree. Fidelio is the most boring opera of all time.

Now pahdon while I go back to my Simon Boccanegra.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Figleaf said:


> Most boring opera of all time (apart from Parsifal).


Nah. Strauss' Capriccio is the most boring opera I have run across.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Nah. Strauss' Capriccio is the most boring opera I have run across.


Nooooooooooooooooo, it's beautiful:angel:


----------



## Sloe

hpowders said:


> I agree. Fidelio is the most boring opera of all time.
> 
> Now pahdon while I go back to my Simon Boccanegra.


The most boring opera of all time must be one of Sciarrino's operas. Since there are many who likes his operas I have given him some chances but so boring for me they are hours of mumbling.


----------



## Lenny

No, not really.

I like the music obviously, if the music is good, but I find "everything else" in opera just incomprehensive. I think there's something wrong in me, seriously. I've never ever followed any words or stories in vocal music, I've always treated human voice just as an instrument. So, in opera I cannot find any meaning or logic. If I try to follow the story, I get quickly bored.

So it's not about the sounds, like opera singing in general, because I can appreciate the human voice in sacred music, lieds etc. It's about the words, the content, which I find uninteresting, or plain incomprehensive. And if that is removed from an opera, I find no structure, at least not the kind of structure I find in abstract music.

But of course there are some opera music I really enjoy in my own way, like Wagner and Strauss, but I just have a feeling I'm not getting the most of it..


----------



## SixFootScowl

Lenny said:


> No, not really.
> 
> I like the music obviously, if the music is good, but I find "everything else" in opera just incomprehensive. I think there's something wrong in me, seriously. I've never ever followed any words or stories in vocal music, I've always treated human voice just as an instrument. So, in opera I cannot find any meaning or logic. If I try to follow the story, I get quickly bored.
> 
> So it's not about the sounds, like opera singing in general, because I can appreciate the human voice in sacred music, lieds etc. It's about the words, the content, which I find uninteresting, or plain incomprehensive. And if that is removed from an opera, I find no structure, at least not the kind of structure I find in abstract music.
> 
> But of course there are some opera music I really enjoy in my own way, like Wagner and Strauss, but I just have a feeling I'm not getting the most of it..


You should try opera on DVD with English subtitles.


----------



## Pugg

Lenny said:


> No, not really.
> 
> I like the music obviously, if the music is good, but I find "everything else" in opera just incomprehensive. I think there's something wrong in me, seriously. I've never ever followed any words or stories in vocal music, I've always treated human voice just as an instrument. So, in opera I cannot find any meaning or logic. If I try to follow the story, I get quickly bored.
> 
> So it's not about the sounds, like opera singing in general, because I can appreciate the human voice in sacred music, lieds etc. It's about the words, the content, which I find uninteresting, or plain incomprehensive. And if that is removed from an opera, I find no structure, at least not the kind of structure I find in abstract music.
> 
> But of course there are some opera music I really enjoy in my own way, like Wagner and Strauss, but I just have a feeling I'm not getting the most of it..


Keep listing , over and over again .


----------



## Poodle

Pugg said:


> Keep listing , over and over again .


And over and over and over, you get the point


----------



## Poodle

I don't just love opera, I need opera :angel:


----------



## sospiro

Poodle said:


> I don't just love opera, I need opera :angel:


You've come to the right place then!

You won't feel embarrassed when you stand up and say: "Hello my name's Poodle and I'm an Opera Addict"


----------



## Pugg

sospiro said:


> You've come to the right place then!
> 
> You won't feel embarrassed when you stand up and say: "Hello my name's Poodle and I'm an Opera Addict"


That's Florestan's copyright


----------



## Ginger

Poodle said:


> I don't just love opera, I need opera :angel:


Yes! Welcome on TC! I think I need opera more than food and I know I prefer opera over sleep!


----------



## Poodle

Ginger said:


> Yes! Welcome on TC! I think I need opera more than food and I know I prefer opera over sleep!


I've been listening to recordings of different operas today since 5:30 this morning. After I've been to work, I'm starting tonight :tiphat:


----------



## Ginger

Poodle said:


> I've been listening to recordings of different operas today since 5:30 this morning. After I've been to work, I'm starting tonight :tiphat:


When I graduated (a while ago  ) I had four exams in a week. But I went to see Götterdämmerung four times and Magic Flute two times. I DID have to concentrate in Latin because I noticed I started to mix up Aeneas and Dido with Siegfried and Brünnhilde... :lol:


----------



## SixFootScowl

Opera is a HUGE part of my musical experience.


----------



## Guest

Florestan said:


> Opera is a HUGE part of my musical experience.


I think we all know that.:tiphat:


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Opera is a HUGE part of my musical experience.


And the searching goes on, I am sure of that.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Traverso said:


> I think we all know that.:tiphat:


I watched Fidelio on DVD a couple years ago and was taken by storm. I could not stop buying operas, sometimes multiple copies of the same opera, sometimes multiple copies of the same recording (different cover, can't not buy at such low price, etc.).


----------



## Guest

Florestan said:


> I watched Fidelio on DVD a couple years ago and was taken by storm. I could not stop buying operas, sometimes multiple copies of the same opera, sometimes multiple copies of the same recording (different cover, can't not buy at such low price, etc.).


Is your name realy Florestan and is Fidelio still the number one for you?


----------



## SixFootScowl

Traverso said:


> Is your name realy Florestan and is Fidelio still the number one for you?


Real name is Paul. I changed my user name to Florestan back then, and my son took the name Rocco, but he does not post here anymore.

Fidelio shares #1 spot with several operas including Barber of Seville, Maria Stuarda, perhaps Flying Dutchman and La Sonnambula, and others I can't think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Real name is Paul. I changed my user name to Florestan back then, and my son took the name Rocco, but he does not post here anymore.
> 
> Fidelio shares #1 spot with several operas including Barber of Seville, Maria Stuarda, perhaps Flying Dutchman and La Sonnambula, and others I can't think of off the top of my head.


Did you fall out at some point, both being on the same forum?


----------



## SiegendesLicht

Figleaf said:


> Most of the discussion of those has tended to focus on this recording versus that recording, which is sometimes reminiscent of 'discussions' between supporters of rival soccer teams.  (Or maybe I'm just sore because my team always loses...) It would be nice to have a different take on these interesting works, which I don't know well enough.


The type of opera thread I enjoy the most on TC are discussions of the philosophy behind Wagner operas, pulling the libretto apart, analyzing it, pondering the meaning of this or that character, words or action, making connections to other myths, philosophies, artistic works. Love it - just like the opera itself!


----------



## SiegendesLicht

Ginger said:


> When I graduated (a while ago  ) I had four exams in a week. But I went to see Götterdämmerung four times and Magic Flute two times. I DID have to concentrate in Latin because I noticed I started to mix up Aeneas and Dido with Siegfried and Brünnhilde... :lol:


I had an advanced-level German exam back in May, and got 93 poins out of 100 possible (sorry if it sounds like bragging  ). I believe many days and nights spent listening to Wagner had much to do with it. Sometimes the love of opera comes in useful in most unexpected ways.


----------



## Pugg

_I love opera _ is still leading by 55% :clap:


----------



## SiegendesLicht

Figleaf said:


> Most boring opera of all time (*apart from Parsifal*).


I politely disagree!


----------



## sospiro

SiegendesLicht said:


> I had an advanced-level German exam back in May, and got 93 poins out of 100 possible (sorry if it sounds like bragging  ). I believe many days and nights spent listening to Wagner had much to do with it. Sometimes the love of opera comes in useful in most unexpected ways.


:tiphat:

Congratulations! I'm sure being a Wagner fan must have helped. I expect you studied the man himself and the histories of his operas.


----------



## helenora

haha, it's so funny here there is a contest going on ( as I noticed it) : who will name the most boring opera of all times according to his/her opinion?:lol:

well, I'd better go and vote to support a majority of this thread


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Did you fall out at some point, both being on the same forum?


No he is just caught up in a lot of stuff, school, work, a different website that is not about music. He still likes opera and classical music a lot. He joined in Nov 2013 and his last post is March 2014 in current listening where he posted four CDs he had just listened to: Pinnock's Messiah, Brahms German Requiem, Israel in Egypt, and Handel Music for Chapel Royal.

We plan on attending Mahler's 7th and Messiah this fall.


----------



## Scopitone

I have watched 4 operas just this week on my Roku box, plus listened to a bunch of stuff on spotify and youtube.

I clicked "Love it".


----------



## Ginger

SiegendesLicht said:


> I had an advanced-level German exam back in May, and got 93 poins out of 100 possible (sorry if it sounds like bragging  ). I believe many days and nights spent listening to Wagner had much to do with it. Sometimes the love of opera comes in useful in most unexpected ways.


Wow! Congratilations!!!  I'm sure Wagner helps you a lot. Also with concentrating for a long time.


----------



## Poodle

Ginger said:


> Wow! Congratilations!!!  I'm sure Wagner helps you a lot. Also with concentrating for a long time.


That can work


----------



## SiegendesLicht

^ With love all things are possible. And I have a whole lot of it


----------



## Pugg

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ With love all things are possible. And I have a whole lot of it


We never would have guessed that revelation .


----------



## SiegendesLicht

sospiro said:


> :tiphat:
> 
> Congratulations! I'm sure being a Wagner fan must have helped. I expect you studied the man himself and the histories of his operas.


I did some study, yes. But sometimes I have a feeling I do not know as much as I would like to about _anything_, neither opera nor the German language, nor anything else. I really wish I could be as knowledgeable about various recordings and performers as some of the posters here. I have to remind myself that it is a life-long process and that the fun is in the journey as much as in the destination.


----------



## starthrower

dogen said:


> Just to show I'm not anti-voice! - some of my favourite works include Gorecki's 3rd Symphony, Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, Scelsi's Uaxutum and Pärt's Te Deum...


If you can sit through the overwrought melodrama of the Gorecki symphony, surely you can find an opera to your liking.


----------



## ArtMusic

Good to see 78% of people either like or love opera, the most important genre of all classical music.


----------



## starthrower

ArtMusic said:


> Good to see 78% of people either like or love opera, the most important genre of all classical music.


Why is it the most important genre?


----------



## Xenakigirl

Yes, opera can be very awesome!


----------



## Pugg

Xenakigirl said:


> Yes, opera can be very awesome!


Tell us your likes them.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

ArtMusic said:


> Good to see 78% of people either like or love opera, the most important genre of all classical music.


Using what criteria are you elevating opera to the top? Importance in terms of what?


----------



## starthrower

He no answer question. Could it be he comes to his conclusion arbitrarily?


----------



## Pugg

starthrower said:


> Why is it the most important genre?


Some people do think that way starthrower, if I had to chose between only opera or anything else I vote opera.
Thank goodness it will never comes to that point. I do think ( quite sure actually) you have you outspoken preference also.


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## znapschatz

Of course I love opera, but very often when listening to something else, I get caught up and just let it carry me off. Just this AM I was listening to the car radio, tuned to our local classical music station, got to my destination, but just before I exited the car they put on Bach's 1st Orchestral Suite. So I settled down to listen (what else could I do?) and, as usual, got carried away. Bach is always good for a nice brain massage. All the good stuff puts me in that space.


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