# Rank your top 10 Russian composers



## AndorFoldes

I'll start:

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Stravinsky
3. Shostakovich
4. Prokofiev
5. Rimsky-Korsakov
6. Rachmaninov
7. Mussorgsky
8. Scriabin
9. Borodin
10. Glinka


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## elgar's ghost

No doubt I'd have changed my mind with positions 2-9 next time I'm asked but for me DSCH rules supreme here.

1/ Shostakovich
2/ Tchaikovsky
3/= Prokofiev and Schnittke
5/ Stravinsky
6/ Skryabin
7/ = Balakirev and Mussorgsky
9/ Rachmaninov
10/ not sure - other contenders include R-K, Borodin, Myaskovsky and Nosyrev.


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## Taneyev

Tchaikovsky
NRK
Borodin
Balakireff
Sergei Taneyev
Miaskovsky
Glazunoff
Rachmaninoff
Arensky
Lyapunov


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## Vesteralen

Not my line, really, but:

Prokofiev
Rachmaninov
Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Rimsky-Korsakov
Borodin
Khatchaturian (Armenian, I know, but...)
Glazounov
Glinka
Mussorgsky


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## DeepR

can't make a top 10 so topi 5 it is

1. Scriabin
2. Rachmaninoff
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Prokofiev
5. Mussorgsky


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## Klavierspieler

1. Shostakovich
2. Stravinsky
3. Medtner
4. Tschaikowsky
5. Prokofiev


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## Crudblud

1. Scriabin
2. Schnittke
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Mosolov
5. Glazunov

I'm not really that confident ranking five, I don't even want to try 10.


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## Bas

1. Borodin
2. Scriabin
3. Shostakovich
4. Rachmaninov
5. Prokofiev

I agree with Crudblud. I'm not going to rank 10, but am quite confident of this five.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Ah man, this is going to be hard....

MY top 10 (not necessarily 10 "greatest" Russians)

1. Glazunov
2. Prokofiev
3. Shostakovich
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Rimsky-Korsakov

They are solidly in place. They were all very prolific, and I enjoy almost everything the 5 Russian composers above made.

6. Arensky
7. Gliere
8. Borodin
9. Rachmaninoff
10. Mussorgsky

Those people move around in their places. Scriabin and Kalinnikov could be of more interest one day, or Liadov, Kabalevsky and Khachaturian the next. Borodin and Mussorgsky are lower, not because I don't like them more, but they have fewer works, whereas Gliere and Arensky have much bigger oeuvres, thus more pieces that I enjoy. As you all know, I have about 25 different Russian composers that I study today.


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## Vaneyes

Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Myaskovsky, Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Khachaturian.


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## StlukesguildOhio

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Rachmaninoff
3. Shostakovitch
4. Rimsky-Korsakov
5. Prokofiev
6. Mussorgsky
7. Stravinsky
8. Scriabin
9. Gretchaninov
10. Balakirev


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## brianwalker

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I thought I was in the majority in my evaluation of Stravinsky being ahead of any other Russian composer by a mile.....


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## Toddlertoddy

1. Stravinsky
2. Shostakovich
3. Prokofiev
4. Myaskovsky
5. Tchaikovsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Scriabin
8. Mussorgsky
9. Borodin
10. Schnittke


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## Arsakes

It's so hard for me, but Ok..

1. Rimsky-Korsakov
2. Mussorgsky
3. Shostakovitch
4. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Glazunov
6. Rachmaninoff
7. Tchaikovsky
8. Glinka
9. Borodin
10. Prokofiev


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## Couchie

1. Scriabin
2. Prokofiev
3. Shostakovich
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Stravinsky
6. Rachmaninoff
7. Mussorgsky
8. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Kabalevsky
10. Schnittke?


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## mamascarlatti

Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev
Stravinsky
Mussorgsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Shostakovich
Rachmaninov
Borodin
Glinka


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## joen_cph

Too crowded a field for me. 

If including former USSR-territory, candidates would be, among others, 
Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky, Schnittke, Rachmaninov, Rimsky-Korsakov, Gubajdulina, Feinberg, Myaskovsky, Medtner, Mussorgsky, Paul Juon, Silvestrov, Lyatoshinsky, Roslavets, Karen Khachaturian, Tsintsadze, Glonti, Denisov - and many more.


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## Art Rock

Shostakovich
Stravinsky
Gubaidulina
Mussorgsky
Tchaikovsky
Myaskovsky
Prokofiev
Gliere
Rimsky-Korsakov
Grechaninov


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## Chi_townPhilly

mamascarlatti said:


> Tchaikovsky
> Prokofiev
> Stravinsky
> Mussorgsky
> Rimsky-Korsakov
> Shostakovich
> Rachmaninov
> Borodin
> Glinka


Without looking at anyone else's list, I stepped away from this thread with a scrap of paper, wrote down some names, and came back with a list that was a virtual mirror of this one.

My 4-5-6 is 6-5-4 on the one above... but except for that, it's identical.


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## mamascarlatti

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Without looking at anyone else's list, I stepped away from this thread with a scrap of paper, wrote down some names, and came back with a list that was a virtual mirror of this one.
> 
> *My 4-5-6 is 6-5-4 on the one above*... but except for that, it's identical.


Haha that's funny because these are the ones I struggled to rank, as I love them equally for different reasons.


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## violadude

Scriabin, Gubaidulina, Schnittke, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Rimsky-Korsokov, Medtner, Rachmaninov.


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## emiellucifuge

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Prokofiev 
3. Scriabin
4. Stravinsky
5. Rachmaninoff
6. Shostakovich
7. Myaskovsky
8. S. Taneyev
9. Shchedrin
10. N. Tcherepnin


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## DeepR

brianwalker said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa, I thought I was in the majority in my evaluation of Stravinsky being ahead of any other Russian composer by a mile.....


Fortunately the majority has better taste.


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## ZombieBeethoven

Glazunov
Borodin
Rachmaninov
Stravinsky
Mussorgsky
Shastakovich
Prokofiev
Cui
Glinka
Tchaikovsky


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## waldvogel

I'll shorten the list to avoid adding Chopin (born a subject of the Tsar) or Khatchaturian (a subject of Stalin), among others.

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Stravinsky. Such an international man, but you have to put him somewhere, so he's a Russian.
3. Mussorgsky
4. Shostakovich
5. Borodin
6. Prokofiev
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Glazunov
10. Kabalevsky


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## Huilunsoittaja

ZombieBeethoven said:


> *Glazunov*
> Borodin
> Rachmaninov
> Stravinsky
> Mussorgsky
> Shastakovich
> Prokofiev
> Cui
> Glinka
> Tchaikovsky


That's more like it.

:tiphat:


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## Xaltotun

1. Shostakovich
2. Tchaikovsky
3. Rachmaninov
4. Rimsky, who is not only a great composer, but also my long-time "fashion icon".
5. Scriabin
6. Mussorgsky
7. Prokofiev
8. Borodin

The rest I know (or like) too little to include, I think.


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## AndorFoldes

Crudblud said:


> I'm not really that confident ranking five, I don't even want to try 10.


I admit it was a stretch to fill in the bottom of my top 10.


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## AndorFoldes

Scoring the 22 submitted lists with 10 for 1st place, 9 for 2nd place and so on and adding up the scores, we get the following top 10 list, which is unsurprising, with the possible exception that Stravinsky did not place higher.

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Shostakovich
3. Prokofiev
4. Stravinsky
5. Rachmaninov
6. Scriabin
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
8. Mussorgsky
9. Borodin
10. Glazunov


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## Rhombic

1. Borodin
2. Myaskovsky
3. Rachmaninoff
4. Shostakovich
5. Glazunov
6. Prokofiev
7. Lyapunov
8. Balakirev
9. Glière (Ukrainian)
10. Tchaikovsky

Whoops! I forgot Rimsky Korsakov. Somewhere in the middle.


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## Orfeo

*A complicated topic. I'll say:*

Glinka
Mussorgsky
Tchaikovsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Glazunov
Rachmaninoff
Scriabin
Stravinsky
Myaskovsky
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Boris Tchaikovsky
Weinberg

*But then again, I can see why people would argue for:*

Alexander Dargomyzhsky (he after all was that critical link b/w Glinka & Tchaikovsky and the Five)
Anton Rubinstein (maybe)
Vissarion Shebalin
Mossolov
Nikolai Roslavets
Schnittke
Shchedrin
Medtner
Catoire (perhaps, if only his music is better known)
Rebikov (same with Catoire)
Denisov
Eshpay
Tcherepnin
Gubaidulina
Peiko (maybe)
Anatoly Alexandrov (maybe)

->Again, a complicated topic mainly due to the complicated yet belated music development in Russia, intermeshed with long periods of political turbulence, suppression and violence, Soviet social and political nomenklatura, Stalinism and the gradual yet uneven thaw after it, politics, commercialism, etc. And those variables color the extent of our knowledge, understanding, and reception of Russian music in Russia and beyond.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Avoiding Scriabin and Stravinsky (and Gubaidulina, etc) on purpose and this being half a joke half a truth:
> 
> Borodin is clearly the greatest Russian.
> Second tier: Mussorgsky and Tchaikovsky.
> Third tier: Glinka, Rimsky-Korsakov, Prokofiev.
> Fourth tier: Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Gliere, Balakirev.
> Fifth tier: Taneyev, Glazunov, Myaskovsky, Lyadov, Cui.
> Sixth tier: Rubinstein, Arensky, [under construction]


My top 10 favourites:

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Borodin
3. Rimsky-Korsakov
4. Mussorgsky
5. Scriabin
6. Prokofiev
7. Stravinsky
8. Glinka
9. Rachmaninoff
10. Gliere


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## beetzart

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Rachmaninov
3. Rimsky-Korsakov 
4. Mussorgsky
5. A. Rubinstein

Wouldn't be able to list ten.


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## Itullian

Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev 
Stravinsky
not much into Russian composers.


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## Piwikiwi

1. Stravinsky
2. Prokofiev
3. Shostakovich
4. Rymsky-Korsakov
5. Mussorgsky


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## Morimur

1. Stravinsky
2. Scriabin
3. Shostakovich
4. Mussorgsky
5. Rymsky-Korsakov


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## Guest

I listened to a little Scriabin a long time ago, but he's a big name that I've yet to really invest enough time in. Prokofiev eluded me for a long time, but he's up there now 

So right now mine would probably just be a pretty standard one like:

Shostakovich
Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninoff
Rubinstein
Schnittke
Gliere
Rimsky-Korsakov
Mussorgsky

Pains me somewhat to exclude Borodin on the strength of his famous quartet alone... Oh, and Miaskovsky...need to listen to him more too. And Medtner! Damn Russians, producing so much good music.


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## apricissimus

I tend to think of Stravinsky as a "citizen of the world", and I tend not to group him with other Russian composers.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

apricissimus said:


> I tend to think of Stravinsky as a "citizen of the world", and I tend not to group him with other Russian composers.


He's still a Russian composer.

I still need to get to know Russian composers in more detail. However, Rimsky-Korsakov is my favourite so far, followed by Tchaikovsky. I know works by Scriabin, Rachmaninov, Balakirev, Borodin and Mussorgsky, but not enough to form more grounded opinions.


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## StlukesguildOhio

A few changes four years on... 

2012:
1. Tchaikovsky
2. Rachmaninoff
3. Shostakovitch
4. Rimsky-Korsakov
5. Prokofiev
6. Mussorgsky
7. Stravinsky
8. Scriabin
9. Gretchaninov
10. Balakirev

2016:
1. Tchaikovsky
2. Stravinsky
3. Prokofiev
4. Rachmaninoff
5. Shostakovitch
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Mussorgsky
8. Scriabin
9. Alexander Borodin
10. Gretchaninov


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## Blancrocher

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 10. Gretchaninov


Great, another composer to listen to...


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## musicrom

Well, I'll take a crack at this...

1. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
2. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
3. Dmitri Shostakovich
4. Sergei Prokofiev
5. Sergei Rachmaninoff
6. Igor Stravinsky
7. Alexander Glazunov
8. Alexander Borodin
9. Alfred Schnittke
10. Dmitri Kabalevsky


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## Richannes Wrahms

Richannes Wrahms said:


> My top 10 favourites:
> 
> 1. Tchaikovsky
> 2. Borodin
> 3. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 4. Mussorgsky
> 5. Scriabin
> 6. Prokofiev
> 7. Stravinsky
> 8. Glinka
> 9. Rachmaninoff
> 10. Gliere


1. Mussorgsky
2. Borodin
3. Rimsky-Korsakov
4. Stravinsky
5. Tchaikovsky
6. Scriabin
7. Prokofiev
8. Rachmaninoff


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## Vronsky

1. Igor Stravinsky
2. Alexander Scriabin
3. Sergei Prokofiev
4. Dmitri Shostakovich
5. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
6. Alfred Schnittke
7. César Cui 
8. Sergei Rachmaninoff
9. Modest Mussorgsky
10. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky


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## Bulldog

1. Shostakovich
2. Scriabin
3. Myaskovsky
4. Taneyev
5. Medtner
6. Stravinsky
7. Prokofiev
8. B. Tchaikovsky
9. Borodin
10. Gretchaninov


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## Woodduck

1. Rachmaninoff
2. Prokofiev
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Myaskovsky
5. Taneyev
6. Scriabin
7. Stravinsky
8. Medtner
9. Borodin
10. Glazunov


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## clavichorder

Tchaikovsky is always at the top of my list.


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## Strange Magic

Prokofiev
Rachmaninoff
Tchaikovsky 
Stravinsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Shostakovich
Khachaturian
Borodin
Glinka
Scriabin


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## Chronochromie

Let's see...

1- Stravinsky
2- Prokofiev and Scriabin (tie)
3- Gubaidulina
4- Mussorgsky
5- Shostakovich
6- Schnittke
7- Rimsky-Korsakov
8- Rachmaninov
9- Glazunov


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## Morimur

1. Stravinsky
2. Scriabin
3. Gubaidulina
4. Ustvolskaya


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## Harold in Columbia

I defer to Mr. Ira Gershwin:


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## Tsaraslondon

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Rachmaninov
3. Shostakovich
4. Prokoviev
5. Mussorgsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Stravinsky
8. Borodin
9. Scriabin
10.Khachaturian (not sure he counts anymore as he's Armenian rather than Russian)

Tchaikovsky always my number one.


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## Guest

1 Shostakovich
2 Prokofiev
3 Stravinsky

or should that be

1 Prokofiev
2 Shostakovich
3 Stravinsky

I've got some work to do to get anywhere near a top 5!


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## KenOC

I don't know about ranking, but it seems to me that the Russians (Soviet or expatriate) pretty well owned the greater chunk of the 20th century. The reign of the middle-Europeans was brought to an end before 1920.


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## Chronochromie

KenOC said:


> I don't know about ranking, but it seems to me that the Russians (Soviet or expatriate) pretty well owned the greater chunk of the 20th century. The reign of the middle-Europeans was brought to an end before 1920.


In my mind, if some nationality "owned" most of the 20th century, it was the French.


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## KenOC

Chronochromie said:


> In my mind, if some nationality "owned" most of the 20th century, it was the French.


See: https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/ama/best-works-by-decade


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## Chronochromie

KenOC said:


> See: https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/ama/best-works-by-decade


Hmm...So? ......


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## violadude

Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Scriabin
Mussorgsky
Schnittke
Gubaidulina
Shostakovich
Rachmaninoff
Borodin
Medtner


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## TxllxT

Prokofiev
Tchaikovsky
Glinka
Mussorgsky
Rachmaninov
Shostakovich
Khachaturian 
Borodin
Glazunov
Rimsky-Korsakov


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## Mal

KenOC said:


> I don't know about ranking, but it seems to me that the Russians (Soviet or expatriate) pretty well owned the greater chunk of the 20th century. The reign of the middle-Europeans was brought to an end before 1920.


Counter argument: Saint-Saens, Bruch, Faure, Elgar, Debussy, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Holst, Ravel, Bartok, Rodrigo, Messiaen, Barber, Britten.

So that's the usual suspects (Russia, France, Britain, Germany) dominating, with worthy single contributions from elsewhere. I think a Russia vs. Europe contest would result in a victory for Europe, but that would be another thread...


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## Polyphemus

1 Rachmaninov
2 Borodin
3 Shostakovich
4 Rimsky Korsakov
5 Schnittke
6 Prokofiev
7 Tchaikovsky
8 Myaskovsky
9 Medtner
10 Gubaidulina

Positions are of course liable to variation depending on the mood I'm in.

Glaunov is excluded for depriving the world of so many years of Rachmaninov's compositional genius.


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## Strange Magic

Polyphemus said:


> Glazunov is excluded for depriving the world of so many years of Rachmaninov's compositional genius.


One story is that Glazunov was drunk. Only somewhat more plausible is that R had some sort of virulent, sudden self-doubt. The symphony itself is very fine, and pure Rachmaninoff. What happened is almost inexplicable, but we can be glad that the symphony was found and reconstructed.


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## Strange Magic

Mal said:


> Counter argument: Saint-Saens, Bruch, Faure, Elgar, Debussy, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Holst, Ravel, Bartok, Rodrigo, Messiaen, Barber, Britten.


One country (Russia) vs. eight. The counter argument is not working for me.


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## elgar's ghost

My list back in 2012.

1/ Shostakovich
2/ Tchaikovsky
3/= Prokofiev and Schnittke
5/ Stravinsky
6/ Skryabin
7/ = Balakirev and Mussorgsky
9/ Rachmaninov
10/ not sure - other contenders include R-K, Borodin, Myaskovsky and Nosyrev. 

Not many - if any - of the names would change but since then I've been listening to far more Schnittke, Stravinsky and Prokofiev than Tchaikovsky so they may have to leapfrog him. The only Russian composer who has really entered my orbit since then is Roslavets who may yet gain a spot on the board.


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## Orfeo

Strange Magic said:


> One story is that Glazunov was drunk. Only somewhat more plausible is that R had some sort of virulent, sudden self-doubt. The symphony itself is very fine, and pure Rachmaninoff. What happened is almost inexplicable, but we can be glad that the symphony was found and reconstructed.


Quite agree. Even if Glazunov was drunk, why was he allowed to conduct, let alone allowed to even attend the event?


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## Orfeo

Polyphemus said:


> 1 Rachmaninov
> 2 Borodin
> 3 Shostakovich
> 4 Rimsky Korsakov
> 5 Schnittke
> 6 Prokofiev
> 7 Tchaikovsky
> 8 Myaskovsky
> 9 Medtner
> 10 Gubaidulina
> 
> Positions are of course liable to variation depending on the mood I'm in.
> 
> Glaunov is excluded for depriving the world of so many years of Rachmaninov's compositional genius.


There were other factors re. the supposed compromise of Rachmaninoff's compositional genius because of the infamous debacle: the genius which was already obvious, by the way, from the very beginning. For one, he made the decision to focus more on performing (first as a conductor primarily to promote his operas, and then as a pianist) than on composition. Besides, the dry spell resulting from that disastrous premiere was not that long, and he did write pieces between the First Symphony and the Second Piano Concerto.

The savagery of the critics (Cui most particularly), the ineptitude of the orchestra (the St. Petersburg Musical Society), inadequate rehearsals, the complexities of the work itself that taxed the orchestra and tested the tolerance of the conservatism of the time were also factors well worth considering, putting aside as much as possible whatever bias or prejudice you may have against Glazunov.


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## schigolch

My current list of favorites:

Alexander Scriabin
Dmitri Shostakovich
Edison Denisov
Galina Ustvolskaya
Mieczysław Weinberg
Modest Mussorgsky
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky 
Rodion Shchedrin
Sergei Prokofiev
Sofia Gubaidulina


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## elgar's ghost

Orfeo said:


> Quite agree. Even if Glazunov was drunk, why was he allowed to conduct, let alone allowed to even attend the event?


Well, maybe Glazunov was sober when he turned up. Glazunov as a conductor was noted more for his enthusiasm than having any real skill for it so maybe he might have been the wrong choice for the premiere in the first place?


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## Strange Magic

Orfeo said:


> There were other factors re. the supposed compromise of Rachmaninoff's compositional genius because of the infamous debacle: the genius which was already obvious, by the way, from the very beginning. For one, he made the decision to focus more on performing (first as a conductor primarily to promote his operas, and then as a pianist) than on composition. Besides, the dry spell resulting from that disastrous premiere was not that long, and he did write pieces between the First Symphony and the Second Piano Concerto.
> 
> The savagery of the critics (Cui most particularly), the ineptitude of the orchestra (the St. Petersburg Musical Society), inadequate rehearsals, the complexities of the work itself that taxed the orchestra and tested the tolerance of the conservatism of the time were also factors well worth considering, putting aside as much as possible whatever bias or prejudice you may have against Glazunov.


Cui's lacerating, cruel review of the symphony probably was the final straw that temporarily drove R into his 3-year drought, but R's throttling-back of his composing also was driven by simple economics--he needed to make some money and the timely intervention of Mamontov and the conductorship offer was just the lifeline R needed. And we can later applaud Glazunov's support of the young Shostakovich.


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## Orfeo

elgars ghost said:


> Well, maybe Glazunov was sober when he turned up. Glazunov as a conductor was noted more for his enthusiasm than having any real skill for it so maybe he might have been the wrong choice for the premiere in the first place?


Okay. Acceptable. And quite true. So with that, your argument should dispel (or challenge) any further this nonsense allegation of Glazunov's insobriety, which was never proven.

And yet there are people who still want to believe that, over the century after this event.


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## Orfeo

.......................


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## Orfeo

Strange Magic said:


> Cui's lacerating, cruel review of the symphony probably was the final straw that temporarily drove R into his 3-year drought, but R's throttling-back of his composing also was driven by simple economics--he needed to make some money and the timely intervention of Mamontov and the conductorship offer was just the lifeline R needed. And we can later applaud Glazunov's support of the young Shostakovich.


Ditto..........


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## Strange Magic

Orfeo said:


> Okay. Acceptable. And quite true. So with that, your argument should dispel (or challenge) any further this nonsense allegation of Glazunov's insobriety, which was never proven.
> 
> And yet there are people who still want to believe that, over the century after this event.


And so the mystery remains. R's own testimony speaks eloquently of his suddenly becoming aware of horrible flaws in the music, but whence cometh this conviction? And why the savage review of Cui? It may come down to at least three triggers: sloppy conducting of an ill-prepared orchestra, an acute attack of nerves on R's part, and then Cui's review. Is there any history of similar behavior on the part of both Glazunov and of Cui? Maybe some kind of Moscow/St. Petersburg rivalry with the spleen dumped on the new(ish) boy Rachmaninoff?


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## Chronochromie

Strange Magic said:


> One country (Russia) vs. eight. The counter argument is not working for me.


Let's try one: Debussy, Satie, Fauré, Ravel, Poulenc, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Boulez, Grisey, Murail, Dusapin, etc.


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## Guest

I'm not sure Russia would be included on my top 10 countries for classical music. The people that think they're #1 usually tend to be weird


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## TxllxT

Mal said:


> Counter argument: Saint-Saens, Bruch, Faure, Elgar, Debussy, Richard Strauss, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Holst, Ravel, Bartok, Rodrigo, Messiaen, Barber, Britten.
> 
> So that's the usual suspects (Russia, France, Britain, Germany) dominating, with worthy single contributions from elsewhere. I think a Russia vs. Europe contest would result in a victory for Europe, but that would be another thread...


In musical terms 'Russia' is a weird concept, because in real it is & was: Saint Petersburg (and the rest). Saint Petersburg is the most European metropole of Europe, so your victory of Europe will be celebrated there...


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## Strange Magic

Chronochromie said:


> Let's try one: Debussy, Satie, Fauré, Ravel, Poulenc, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Boulez, Grisey, Murail, Dusapin, etc.


Much better attempt! The names beyond Boulez are not shouted in the streets, you will concede, and the "etc." is troublesome, but, overall, quite some vindication for France. How about Milhaud, Tailleferre, Boulanger, Chabrier?


----------



## Strange Magic

nathanb said:


> I'm not sure Russia would be included on my top 10 countries for classical music. The people that think they're #1 usually tend to be weird


????????????? You sure confused me.


----------



## Orfeo

Strange Magic said:


> And so the mystery remains. R's own testimony speaks eloquently of his suddenly becoming aware of horrible flaws in the music, but whence cometh this conviction? And why the savage review of Cui? It may come down to at least three triggers: sloppy conducting of an ill-prepared orchestra, an acute attack of nerves on R's part, and then Cui's review. Is there any history of similar behavior on the part of both Glazunov and of Cui? Maybe some kind of Moscow/St. Petersburg rivalry with the spleen dumped on the new(ish) boy Rachmaninoff?


Part of the conviction came from Rimsky-Korsakov, who expressed his dislike for the Symphony before its premiere. Keep in mind that Rachmaninoff's main support of confidence was Tchaikovsky himself and that was gone after his passing in 1893.

Your triggers are quite on the mark and yes, there was a rivalry between the two schools (which is why Glazunov is often credited as the great conciliator) and Cui was a big part of that. This rivalry was like the Brahms/Hanslick v. the Wagnerians during the final decades in Vienna, although the latter was arguable the more toxic.

As far as whether there was any history of similar behavior on the part of both Glazunov and of Cui, yes. Glazunov, though fond of conducting, was never really at home on the podium. He tended to get nervous and was not comfortable giving directions to musicians (he was not so articulate or verse in that regard). Cui was known for his criticism even before Rachmaninoff's symphony premiere (he criticized, for instance, Mussorgsky's _Boris Godunov_ & Tchaikovsky's _Oprichnik_).


----------



## elgar's ghost

Cui, reputed to be an acrimonious critic but nonetheless an entertaining one to read - almost like some of today's TV columnists, perhaps - was capable of savaging pretty much anyone on musical matters so I don't think he could ever be accused of discriminating against Rachmaninov in particular, although for a young composer the barbs probably went home deeper. To be trashed in print by Cui could almost be considered a badge of honour and even his esteemed Mighty Handful colleagues didn't escape his invective.


----------



## Guest

Strange Magic said:


> ????????????? You sure confused me.


What's so confusing about it, my good man?


----------



## Strange Magic

nathanb said:


> What's so confusing about it, my good man?


What's confusing is that such a patently absurd brace of assertions--lack of certainty about whether Russia should count among the top ten counties for classical music, and that people who think they are number one usually tend to be weird--should simultaneously appear in one short utterance by a seemingly rational being. I'm just not used to it. Will there be more? :lol:


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Woodduck said:


> 1. Rachmaninoff
> 2. Prokofiev
> 3. Tchaikovsky
> 4. Myaskovsky
> 5. Taneyev
> 6. Scriabin
> 7. Stravinsky
> 8. Medtner
> 9. Borodin
> 10. Glazunov


Aaahh, where's Korsakov?


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

elgars ghost said:


> Cui, reputed to be an acrimonious critic but nonetheless an entertaining one to read - almost like some of today's TV columnists, perhaps - was capable of savaging pretty much anyone on musical matters so I don't think he could ever be accused of discriminating against Rachmaninov in particular, although for a young composer the barbs probably went home deeper. To be trashed in print by Cui could almost be considered a badge of honour and even his esteemed Mighty Handful colleagues didn't escape his invective.


His name's slightly suggestive in Russian too :lol:


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

elgars ghost said:


> Cui, reputed to be an acrimonious critic but nonetheless an entertaining one to read - almost like some of today's TV columnists, perhaps - was capable of savaging pretty much anyone on musical matters so I don't think he could ever be accused of discriminating against Rachmaninov in particular, although for a young composer the barbs probably went home deeper. To be trashed in print by Cui could almost be considered a badge of honour and even his esteemed Mighty Handful colleagues didn't escape his invective.


Hehe, well written, elgarsghost .


----------



## EdwardBast

Orfeo said:


> Okay. Acceptable. And quite true. So with that, your argument should dispel (or challenge) any further this nonsense allegation of Glazunov's insobriety, which was never proven.
> 
> And yet there are people who still want to believe that, over the century after this event.


The First Symphony is not without its flaws, and they are of a kind that are likely to wreak havoc for a premiere. The orchestration is not very good. There are some muddy passages for low horns and brass. There is too much inter-family doubling. I suspect it is one of those pieces which, because of the density of the orchestration, requires especially careful attention to balance. Given that it was a completely unfamiliar work and was probably grossly under-rehearsed, it would not be surprising if the performance turned out a mess. During the premiere Rachmaninoff described sitting out on a fire escape trying to stop his ears to keep out horrible sounds for which he couldn't believe he was responsible.

Thematically speaking, the symphony is one of the most complexly and systematically integrated multimovement works in the repertoire. To grasp its ambitious plan and its narrative implications would have required a great deal of study - which it probably did not receive.

In no particular order, I like:

Prokofiev
Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich 
Schnittke
Stravinsky 
Rachmaninoff
Myaskovsky
Mussorgsky
Rimsky-Korsakoff


----------



## Guest

Strange Magic said:


> What's confusing is that such a patently absurd brace of assertions--lack of certainty about whether Russia should count among the top ten counties for classical music, and that people who think they are number one usually tend to be weird--should simultaneously appear in one short utterance by a seemingly rational being. I'm just not used to it. Will there be more? :lol:


If my mind is patently absurd, then I suppose there could be more. Unless you would prefer no more?


----------



## Strange Magic

nathanb said:


> If my mind is patently absurd, then I suppose there could be more. Unless you would prefer no more?


I found the assertions absurd. I can't answer any queries you might have about your own mind, though I suggest that you Inquire Within. But post as you see fit.


----------



## Bulldog

Bulldog said:


> 1. Shostakovich
> 2. Scriabin
> 3. Myaskovsky
> 4. Taneyev
> 5. Medtner
> 6. Stravinsky
> 7. Prokofiev
> 8. B. Tchaikovsky
> 9. Borodin
> 10. Gretchaninov


I entirely forgot about Weinberg. He goes to no. 3, the remainder drop one place and Gretchaninov is kicked to the curb.


----------



## Chronochromie

Strange Magic said:


> Much better attempt! The names beyond Boulez are not shouted in the streets, you will concede, and the "etc." is troublesome, but, overall, quite some vindication for France. How about Milhaud, Tailleferre, Boulanger, Chabrier?


You will find that if you ask the person on the street about Shostakovich they'll go: Whostakovich???

Milhaud and Tailleferre are fine composers, but I wouldn't put them on the level of those I mentioned. Same for Lili Boulanger, and Nadia is well known for her teaching, not her compositions. Chabrier died in 1894.


----------



## violadude

Chronochromie said:


> In my mind, if some nationality "owned" most of the 20th century, it was the French.


More or less, for the first part of the 20th Century the "Capitol of Music" moved from Vienna to Paris. Debussy, Ravel, Les Six, Messiaen and many non-French like Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Carter, Martinu..etc. either composed much of their work or did much of their studying in Paris. This was partly due to the fact that a lot of music in the early 20th century was divided into the "Second Viennese" camp or the "Neo-Classical" camp, of which the latter (born primarily out of France) certainly attracted a greatly diverse group of composers (not that the former didn't as well). This was also partly due to the fact that so many composers from around the world migrated to France to study with the prodigious (as a teacher) Nadia Boulanger.

It also didn't hurt that France was the European country that most readily took to exploring the language of Jazz as a new tool of expression for Classical composers. An aspect that attracted many composers (certainly many American composers) to the atmosphere in Paris.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Well I was pretty amused at the conversation on this thread today. 

There are more interesting horses to beat though...

For anyone interested, I wrote up 2 blogs about the Glazunov/Coombs piano project. Russian enthusiasts would find it an admirable project, I think.


----------



## violadude

violadude said:


> More or less, for the first part of the 20th Century the "Capitol of Music" moved from Vienna to Paris. Debussy, Ravel, Les Six, Messiaen and many non-French like Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Carter, Martinu..etc. either composed much of their work or did much of their studying in Paris. This was partly due to the fact that a lot of music in the early 20th century was divided into the "Second Viennese" camp or the "Neo-Classical" camp, of which the latter (born primarily out of France) certainly attracted a greatly diverse group of composers (not that the former didn't as well). This was also partly due to the fact that so many composers from around the world migrated to France to study with the prodigious (as a teacher) Nadia Boulanger.
> 
> It also didn't hurt that France was the European country that most readily took to exploring the language of Jazz as a new tool of expression for Classical composers. An aspect that attracted many composers (certainly many American composers) to the atmosphere in Paris.


Ya know, thinking about it more, it makes a lot of sense that the music/artistic scene would move away from Germany anyway, even if it didn't move specifically to France. I mean, considering the state of Germany post-WWI...


----------



## Woodduck

Woodduck:
_1. Rachmaninoff
2. Prokofiev
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Myaskovsky
5. Taneyev
6. Scriabin
7. Stravinsky
8. Medtner
9. Borodin
10. Glazunov_

HaydnBearstheClock:
_Aaahh, where's Korsakov?_ 

I don't feel I know Rimsky well enough, simply because I barely know his operas, which are often considered his most important work. If that changes, he might conceivably make my top ten.

Besides, _S__heherezade_ bores me stiff. I don't know why.


----------



## KenOC

The question came up, which country was most important in music in the 20th century. I went back to a series of voting games that resulted in top-ten lists of works composed in each decade, 100 works in all. I assigned 10 points to each 1st place work down to 1 point for 10th place, repeating this for each of the ten decades.

I ignored the works themselves and ranked composers by total points received. Here are all the composers who earned 10 points of more during the 20th century. You can draw your own conclusion as to which countries did well or less well, at least in these games.

Shostakovich: 88 points
Mahler: 44 points
Messiaen: 43 points
Lutoslawski: 42 points
Bartok: 40 points
Sibelius: 34 points
Stravinsky: 34 points
Ligeti: 34 points
Prokofiev: 28 points
Schnittke: 28 points
Ravel: 19 points
Poulenc: 16 points
Janacek: 15 points
Dutilleux: 11 points
Vaughan Williams: 10 points

Very little was heard from the Austro-German contingent after 1911.


----------



## Fugue Meister

nathanb said:


> I'm not sure Russia would be included on my top 10 countries for classical music. The people that think they're #1 usually tend to be weird


I'm sure all us weirdos on the Russian side of the fence think your the weird one for not even seeing the merit of such a wealth of music here... Perhaps one day you will but then again we might have too many weirdos over here as it is.


----------



## Guest

Fugue Meister said:


> I'm sure all us weirdos on the Russian side of the fence think your the weird one for not even seeing the merit of such a wealth of music here... Perhaps one day you will but then again we might have too many weirdos over here as it is.


Excluding something from a top 10 list =/= not seeing the merit.


----------



## KenOC

The ascendancy of the Russians (or Soviets if you like) in the 20th century is reflected in concert programming among US orchestras. I can answer specific questions on this.


----------



## Strange Magic

Woodduck said:


> Besides, _S__heherezade_ bores me stiff. I don't know why.


I entirely share your boredom with Scheherazade. In my case, I think it results mostly from overexposure during my early adolescence, though otherwise I am extremely fond of Rimsky's music, even such chestnuts as the Russian Easter Overture, Capriccio Espagnol, etc. Antar is excellent. And the incidental music, suites, overtures from his operas are a source of endless delight. The same degree of youthful overexposure has also sapped my zeal for the Dvorak 9th, Pictures at an Exhibition, and the Tchaikovsky 5th and 6th, yet my appreciation for these several composers' other works remains undiminished. So I suspect that it is partly idiosyncrasy on my part, but there may be a certain lack of what I can only call musical tension or tautness in these particular works that helped trigger my growing indifference. Hard to explain.


----------



## Nereffid

KenOC said:


> The question came up, which country was most important in music in the 20th century. I went back to a series of voting games that resulted in top-ten lists of works composed in each decade, 100 works in all. I assigned 10 points to each 1st place work down to 1 point for 10th place, repeating this for each of the ten decades.
> 
> I ignored the works themselves and ranked composers by total points received. Here are all the composers who earned 10 points of more during the 20th century. You can draw your own conclusion as to which countries did well or less well, at least in these games.
> 
> Shostakovich: 88 points
> Mahler: 44 points
> Messiaen: 43 points
> Lutoslawski: 42 points
> Bartok: 40 points
> Sibelius: 34 points
> Stravinsky: 34 points
> Ligeti: 34 points
> Prokofiev: 28 points
> Schnittke: 28 points
> Ravel: 19 points
> Poulenc: 16 points
> Janacek: 15 points
> Dutilleux: 11 points
> Vaughan Williams: 10 points
> 
> Very little was heard from the Austro-German contingent after 1911.


You know two can play at this game, Ken. 

I examined all the 20th-century works in my polls that were liked by at least 50% of voters.
There were 146, broken down by nationality as:

Russia 41 (5 composers)
France 29 (3)
Germany/Austria 19 (5)
Hungary 16 (2)
UK 11 (4)
Finland 10 (1)
USA 9 (1)
Denmark 4 (2)
Italy 3 (2)
Czech Republic 3 (1)
Japan 1 (1)

Actually though, those results cover only the first three-quarters of the century - only 2 of the 146 came from after 1974.


----------



## Headphone Hermit

violadude said:


> Ya know, thinking about it more, it makes a lot of sense that the music/artistic scene would move away from Germany anyway, even if it didn't move specifically to France. I mean, considering the state of Germany post-WWI...


You do know that Vienna isn't in Germany now (and wasn't in post-WWI either), don't you? You do, surely?

.... if not, then it helps provide an answer to post #91 .... that some Americans guessed that Paris was in France but couldn't locate the correct country for Vienna :devil:


----------



## TurnaboutVox

It's hard to ignore the claims of:

Shostakovich
Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninov

who would get into most 'Top 100 composers' lists. So they'd be my top 5. Roughly in order, though after hearing Rachmaninov's awe inspiring 'Vespers' at a concert last year, I need to hear more of this composer, away from the 'big' symphonies and piano concertos.

Then, based on listening to a limited number of compositions, my next 5 would be (no particular order)

Mussorgsky
Gubaidulina
Schnittke
Glazunov
Taneyev

Ah, I knew someone would get lost in compiling this list. Scriabin, at No. 6, or thereabouts


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

I'll see how this goes...
1. Shostakovich
2. Schnittke
3. Denisov
4. Gubaidulina
5. Rachmaninov
6. Mussorgsky
7. Tchaikovsky
8. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. S. Taneyev
10. Arensky
think they are the ones I've listened the most to...oops forgot Scriabin, Prokofiev & Stravinsky


----------



## Fugue Meister

Many of you have listed "Taneyev" now I know the majority here are talking about Sergei but there is another, Aleksander. So which "Taneyev" are we talking about here? Personally I really enjoy Aleksander's 3 string quartets.


----------



## Fugue Meister

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> I'll see how this goes...
> 1. Shostakovich
> 2. Schnittke
> 3. Denisov
> 4. Gubaidulina
> 5. Rachmaninov
> 6. Mussorgsky
> 7. Tchaikovsky
> 8. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 9. S. Taneyev
> 10. Arensky
> think they are the ones I've listened the most to...oops forgot Scriabin, Prokofiev & Stravinsky


This guy has the right idea...


----------



## Fugue Meister

Oh yeah I just realized I never properly answered this thread... Silly me.

D. Shostakovich
S. Prokofiev
I. Stravinsky
A. Borodin
M. Mussorgsky
A. Scriabin
N. Myaskovsky
P. Tchiakovsky
N. Rimsky-Korsakov
S. Rachmaninoff
A. Schnittke
B. Tishchenko

Sorry but I had to go over to fit everyone in but they are in order.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

Fugue Meister said:


> Many of you have listed "Taneyev" now I know the majority here are talking about Sergei but there is another, Aleksander. So which "Taneyev" are we talking about here? Personally I really enjoy Aleksander's 3 string quartets.


Sergei, also for his string quartets.


----------



## KenOC

Nereffid said:


> I examined all the 20th-century works in my polls that were liked by at least 50% of voters.
> There were 146, broken down by nationality as:
> 
> Russia 41 (5 composers)
> France 29 (3)
> Germany/Austria 19 (5)
> Hungary 16 (2)
> UK 11 (4)
> Finland 10 (1)
> USA 9 (1)
> Denmark 4 (2)
> Italy 3 (2)
> Czech Republic 3 (1)
> Japan 1 (1)
> 
> Actually though, those results cover only the first three-quarters of the century - only 2 of the 146 came from after 1974.


I re-cast my results to match yours, by country. Surprisingly similar results:

Russian: 32 works, 191 points
French: 16 works, 104 points
Hungarian: 14 works, 74 points
Polish: 8 works, 45 points
Austro-German: 7 works, 44 points
Finnish: 7 works, 36 points
American: 5 works, 18 points
Czech: 3 works, 17 points
British: 5 works, 16 points
Danish: 2 works, 6 points
Estonian: 1 work, 6 points

This is the whole 100 works, top-ten per decade for the entire 20th century. Stravinsky (23 points) and Rachmaninoff (3 points) are counted as Russians here, following Wikipedia's lead. Not that it makes much difference.


----------



## Guest

Nereffid said:


> Actually though, those results cover only the first three-quarters of the century - only 2 of the 146 came from after 1974.


That's always been a sad truth for me. Russia surely has the smallest number of solid living composers per capita of any "Western" country right now.


----------



## KenOC

nathanb said:


> That's always been a sad truth for me. Russia surely has the smallest number of solid living composers per capita of any "Western" country right now.


In the survey I quoted, the Russian composers that made the most difference were Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Schnittke. All departed now.


----------



## Guest

KenOC said:


> In the survey I quoted, the Russian composers that made the most difference were Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Schnittke. All departed now.


All admirable composers. All to be missed.

We have Gubaidulina still, I believe. Dmitri Kourliandski is a young Russian composer that has piqued my interest as well.


----------



## Truckload

KenOC said:


> The ascendancy of the Russians (or Soviets if you like) in the 20th century is reflected in concert programming among US orchestras. I can answer specific questions on this.


This is very kind of you to share your research. I am guessing you have access to a database of some sort? Can you tell us the source of your data?

Also, since you volunteer, can you give us, say, a top 3 of Russian works programmed by US orchestras?


----------



## Nereffid

Truckload said:


> This is very kind of you to share your research. I am guessing you have access to a database of some sort? Can you tell us the source of your data?
> 
> Also, since you volunteer, can you give us, say, a top 3 of Russian works programmed by US orchestras?


I think what Ken is referring to is this info collected by the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra:
http://www.bsomusic.org/stories/by-the-numbers-2015-2016-database.aspx


----------



## Strange Magic

There are opinions, and then there are data. I always appreciate it when somebody can produce data, as data provide some sort of factual context within which opinions can be examined. Love it!


----------



## Guest

Strange Magic said:


> There are opinions, and then there are data. I always appreciate it when somebody can produce data, as data provide some sort of factual context within which opinions can be examined. Love it!


Under the lens of popularity defining quality, yes, this data is absolutely indispensable!

I don't wear my glasses, tbh.


----------



## KenOC

"Under the lens of popularity defining quality, yes, this data is absolutely indispensable!"

Quality, of course, cannot be defined. An entire and rather famous book was written on the subject! Popularity can be not only defined but measured. And it is enduring popularity, not quality, that leads to works being played and enjoyed for decades or even centuries. Works with "quality" (whatever that is) that are not enduringly popular disappear at some point and are...gone.


----------



## Arsakes

I saw much wisdom in my previous list. So I don't change it!


----------



## 20centrfuge

1. Prokofiev
2. Stravinsky
3. Rachmaninov
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Shostakovich
6. Gubaidulina
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
8. Borodin
9. Ustvolskaya


----------



## hpowders

1-4: Prokofiev

5-7: Shostakovich

8-10: Tchaikovsky


----------



## anthonycwein

1. Rachmaninoff
2. Shostakovich
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Stravinsky
5. Borodin
6. Prokofiev
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
8. Scriabin


----------



## tdc

I think I only have 5 favorite Russian composers

1) Schnittke
2) Gubaidulina
3) Prokofiev
4) Rachmaninov
5) Stravinsky


----------



## hpowders

Top ten would be a stretch for me. 

I only care about three:

1. Shostakovich

2. Tchaikovsky

3. Prokofiev


----------



## Cosmos

This will be tough...a lot of my favorites have high quality outputs. I'm also cheating because I'm opting for 5 instead of 10. Also, my ranking is on slight preferences, as in, I like these guys equally, and small things are determining this ranking, just for the sake of the thread:

1. Prokofiev
2. Medtner
3. Scriabin
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Rachmaninov


----------



## scratchgolf

I'm certain this is different from anything I may have previously submitted here, which is unlikely. I'll go Soviet area composers.

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Mussorgsky
3. Rimsky-Korsokov
4. Borodin
5. Glazunov
6. Prokofiev
7. Taneyev
8. Gliere
9. Glinka
10. Katchaturian/Scriabin

I omitted Stravinsky purposely and he may not be top ten anyway


----------



## Kenneth

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Shostakovich
3. Stravinsky
4. Rachmaninoff
5. Prokofiev
6. Mussorgsky
7. Borodin
8. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Balakirev
10. Glazunov


----------



## Meyerbeer Smith

Mussorgsky
Tchaikovsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Prokofiev
Borodin
Glinka
Stravinsky
Brusiloff
Sovietski
Nastikoff


----------



## dieter

Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Mussorgsky
Rachmaninoff
Stravinsky
Shchedrin
Tischenko
Taneyev
Rimsky-Korsakoff


----------



## Guest

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Stravinsky
3. Shostikovich
4. Prokofiev
5. Rachmaninoff
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Borodin
8. Mussorgsky
9. Katchaturian
10. Ippolitov-Ivanov


----------



## Guest

1. Stravinsky

2. Scriabin
3. Schnittke
4. Gubaidulina
5. Kourliandski
6. Prokofiev
7. Ustvolskaya
8. Denisov
9. Ekimovsky
10. Mussorgsky


----------



## Geralt

1. Schnittke
2. Prokofiev
3. Shostakovich
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Mussorgski
6. Stravinsky
7. Rachmaninov
8. Scriabin
9. Gliére
10. Rimsky-Korsakov


----------



## Guest

Impoverished as I am, I can only name those who have caused me to part with some hard-earned...

1. Scriabin
2. Gubaidulina
3. Schnittke
4. Stravinsky
5. Prokofiev
6. Rachmaninov

Not in any desperate order, although I am partial to my Scriabin.


----------



## Casebearer

1. Schnittke
2. Gubaidulina
3. Ustvolskaya
4. Shostakovich
5. Prokofjev
6. Stravinsky
7. Scriabin
8. Tchaikovsky
9. Glazunov
10. Rachmaninov


----------



## lottiesdad

*My top 10 Russian Composers*

These are my personal top 10. I'm sure there are some tat I have missed but the top five are most important to me. 
1. Rachmaninov
2. Tchaikovsky
3. Rimsky-Korsakov
4. Stravinsky
5. Mussorgsky
6. Shostakovich
7. Rubinstein
8. Borodin
9. Liadov
10.Sychra


----------



## Bulldog

In no particular order:

Scriabin
Shostakovich
Myaskovsky
Weinberg
Taneyev
Silvestrov
Prokofiev
Medtner
Boris Tchaikovsky
Lokshin


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

Only four---no order

Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev
Borodin
Rachmaninoff


----------



## mbhaub

1. Rimsky-Korsakov
2. Tchaikovsky
3. Borodin
4. Mussorgsky
5. Balakirev
6. Prokofieff
7. Shostakovich
8. Glazunov
9. Gliere
10. Svetlanov - his first symphony is a doozy - if you like the above composers and Russian nationalism, it's a must.


----------



## MusicSybarite

P. I. Tchaikovsky
D. Shostakovich
S. Prokofiev
N. Rimsky-Korsakov
A. Glazunov
S. Taneyev
A. Schnittke
R. Glière
S. Rachmaninov
D. Kabalevsky

Honorable mention for V. Kalinnikov and his 2 wonderful symphonies, also because of his scandalously neglected _Tsar Boris_.


----------



## Guest

No particular order, but 10 whose music I really really really love:

Elena Rykova
Dmitri Kourliandski
Georgy Dorokhov
Nastasya Khrushcheva*
Alexey Glazkov
Anton Svetlichny
Stanislav Makovsky
Fred Momotenko
Anna Pospelova
Alexander Khubeev

Honourable mention to Igor Stravinsky, I think.


*There seem to be quite a few different Roman script transliterations of her name; search for настасья хрущёва for greater results online.


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## CnC Bartok

Seven composers who'd qualify unreservedly, because I love a wide range of their works:

Shostakovich - 'nuff said.
Mussorgsky - for me he wrote the best opera ever!
Stravinsky - starting to get a lot more love for his "other" works, that seem more respected than adored....
Borodin - anyone who can write such beautiful and powerful music, and papers on aldol condensation, and love cats, is OK in my book!
Prokofiev - Hit and miss for me, but too many of his works are hits to even consider overlooking him
Rachmaninov - do I need to justify this???
Tchaikovsky - I don't like a lot of his music, but there are many pieces I do.

And three more, with the work(s) that justify my including them:
Scriabin - The supremely gorgeous Piano Concerto, and the wonderful Symphony No.2 (yes I know, I like the "wrong Scriabin"!)
Mysakovsky - Some fine symphonies, No.16 stands out as brilliant for me
Rimsky- Korsakov - The obvious works, including Antar, which is a favourite

And an honourable mention for Medtner, whose Piano Concerto No.2 is a real gem.


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## Enthusiast

I am not sure about ranking them. And I am not sure that there are ten. And I'm not sure about including Stravinsky - perhaps the greatest of them all - as in some ways he never forgot he was Russian but in another way he was so international. 

Anyway, I guess Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Schnittke and Gubaidulina must be there and Rachmaninov also deserves a mention. I must also confess to really loving Scheherazade and finding some other pieces by Rinsky-Korsakov attractive. So that is eight plus Stravinsky. I'm not sure I could name another but that maybe because I don't give enough attention to opera and I really have very little idea of more contemporary Russian music.


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## Enthusiast

Robert Pickett said:


> Stravinsky - starting to get a lot more love for his "other" works, that seem more respected than adored....


Yes, the "other Stravinsky" (the neoclassical and 12 tone works) is not exactly in fashion at the moment but I at least do adore his music! I believe there have been many routes to providing great musical experiences in the 20th Century and comparisons of worth are so unhelpful but so much of Stravinsky's music post 1920 is so spare and pure and beautiful that I wouldn't argue with anyone who said he was the most wonderful composer of the period 1920-1950!


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## Marsilius

I can get up to 9...

Tchaikovsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Rachmaninoff
Gliere
Glazunov
Borodin
Balakirev
Prokofiev
Mussorgsky


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## CnC Bartok

Enthusiast said:


> Yes, the "other Stravinsky" (the neoclassical and 12 tone works) is not exactly in fashion at the moment but I at least do adore his music! I believe there have been many routes to providing great musical experiences in the 20th Century and comparisons of worth are so unhelpful but so much of Stravinsky's music post 1920 is so spare and pure and beautiful that I wouldn't argue with anyone who said he was the most wonderful composer of the period 1920-1950!


Well, I'd put Bartok above him on your last point, but maybe that's pure personal bias! My favourite bits of Stravinsky at the moment would include the Symphony of Psalms, Apollo (is there a piece more serenely beautiful?) the Violin Concerto and the Requiem Canticles, all important pieces, but still "lesser works than the only three pieces he wrote" (sic), and in many ways all emotionally detached pieces (another way of saying spare and pure?)

Were they ever in fashion, I wonder? I always got the impression they inspired admiration and respect simply because of their composer, rather than real love.....

Of the three great ballets, it's Petrushka for me every time. I think that maybe could resolve your "was he really Russian" dilemma....


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## Enthusiast

Robert Pickett said:


> Well, I'd put Bartok above him on your last point, but maybe that's pure personal bias! My favourite bits of Stravinsky at the moment would include the Symphony of Psalms, Apollo (is there a piece more serenely beautiful?) the Violin Concerto and the Requiem Canticles, all important pieces, but still "lesser works than the only three pieces he wrote" (sic), and in many ways all emotionally detached pieces (another way of saying spare and pure?)
> 
> Were they ever in fashion, I wonder? I always got the impression they inspired admiration and respect simply because of their composer, rather than real love.....
> 
> Of the three great ballets, it's Petrushka for me every time. I think that maybe could resolve your "was he really Russian" dilemma....


Oh, yes: I agree about Apollo! And the other pieces you mention. And the Mass (but there are some horrible recordings of that out there) and so many other pieces. I love the symphonies, too. Or, to be more precise, one and a half of them (the Symphony is C has two lovely movements but then he was uprooted and fled to America before completing it so the last two movements sound like they don't belong and are not so inspired).

I am not sure about these works being emotionally detached but they are certainly emotionally restrained and there is no sense of a heart being on a shirt sleeve! But I don't see them as lesser than the three great ballets (of which I think the Rite is the greatest - but there you are) - I am definitely of the opinion that they are greater!

As for the comparison with Bartok, fair enough but Stravinsky was so fertile. I think Stravinsky was much more in fashion when I was young - some forty plus years ago - but has been sidelined a little by our current love of, on the one side, more rousing and even bombastic music and, on the other side, more atonal and experimental music. He was modern like Picasso was modern but he doesn't fit either of our current modern classical music camps very well.

And, as for this "was he a Russian composer?" matter, I was mindful of Les Noces, the Rite, the Mass and all sorts of other pieces. So, of course, he was Russian. But he didn't fit that mold either. To me, not fitting a mold is ultimately a very 20th Century quality so perhaps he is the most typical after all!


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## Guest

I'm not really concerned with a composer's place of birth. Clearly it likely has a great effect on their composing but as a listener I'm not too bothered, even though I can sometimes see national traits. This amounts to my excuse why I confidently put one name down but, upon checking, discovered that they were in fact Polish, not Russian. 

Scriabin

and then...unranked...

Roslavets
Schnittke
Prokofiev
Rachmaninov
Gubaidulina


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## BiscuityBoyle

Some great points made in this thread particularly re Stravinsky. 

There are 8 that speak to me/I can think of at this point. 

1. Strav (arguably the greatest figure in world music post Debussy)
2. Prokofiev (the Mozart of the 20th century, incomparable gift for melody) 
3. Mussorgsky (the drunk who presaged so much of 20th century modernism) 
4. Shostakovitch 
5. Scriabin
6. Nikolai Karetnikov (brutally underrated, among the great composers of the 2nd half of the 20th century)
7. Ustvolskaya (using the piano as a percussion instrument is fun & should be done more often. Let's make some fahkin noise etc) 
8. Rachmaninov (of course Tchaikovsky is the more important composer but Rachmaninov's arguably most serious flirtation with modernist aesthetic, the Études-tableaux, decides it for me)


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## San Antone

I only listen to four Russians regularly. Here they are in order of preference.

Stravinsky
Weinberg (is he Russian or Polish or Jewish?)
Shostakovich
Myaskovsky


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## Bulldog

San Antone said:


> Weinberg (is he Russian or Polish or Jewish?)


Definitely Jewish. He escaped from Poland when he was 20 years old (composed just two works in Poland). I always list him as Russian, but that's not set in concrete.


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## Guest

Is there a reason why people aren't listing 10? I don't listen to Russian music all that much but there are at least 10 composers whose music I enjoy......


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## Bulldog

shirime said:


> Is there a reason why people aren't listing 10? I don't listen to Russian music all that much but there are at least 10 composers whose music I enjoy......


For reasons unknown to me, Russian music isn't a big hit on TC. Then again, this thread is 10 pages long - that's impressive. Also, 10 is just an arbitrary number, not a ceiling or floor mandated by a supreme authority unless AndorFoldes is the savior.


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## D Smith

These are the 10 I listen to most frequently (unranked)

Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Rachmaninoff
Prokofiev
Mussorgsky
Miaskovsky
Gubaidulina
Arensky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Stravinsky


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## Guest

Bulldog said:


> For reasons unknown to me, Russian music isn't a big hit on TC. Then again, this thread is 10 pages long - that's impressive. Also, 10 is just an arbitrary number, not a ceiling or floor mandated by a supreme authority unless AndorFoldes is the savior.


That may be true, but TC is quite a huge community these days that I would expect there to be more fans rather than fewer.

I'm not a huge Russian music fan, but I like to indulge in some Kourliandski, Rykova and Khubeev from time to time.


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## zootMutant

Sad to say, I don't have much in my collection, so it would have to be (in order of time spent listening):

Borodin
Rimsky-Korsakov
Tchaikovsky
Stravinsky

Cheers,
zoot


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## Eva Yojimbo

1. Stravinsky
2. Scriabin
3. Prokofiev
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Mussorgsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Rachmaninoff
8. Medtner
9. Shostakovich
10. Schnittke


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## Strange Magic

First, Prokofiev
Second, Rachmaninoff
Then, in no particular order:
Borodin
Khachaturian 
Stravinsky
Rimsky-Korsakov
Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Scriabin
Glinka


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## BiscuityBoyle

shirime said:


> I like to indulge in some Kourliandski, Rykova and Khubeev from time to time.


Sounds interesting, I want to discover more young/living composers. Could you perhaps cite/post some works that would be good entry points into their work?


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## DeepR

Scriabin
Rachmaninoff
Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev
Roslavets


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## Alkan

Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Scriabin
Mussorgsky
Prokofiev
Rachmaninov
Rimsky-Korsakov
Borodin
Rubinstein

Stravinsky


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## Guest

BiscuityBoyle said:


> Sounds interesting, I want to discover more young/living composers. Could you perhaps cite/post some works that would be good entry points into their work?


Sure


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## licorice stick

16. Gliere
15. Balakirev
14. Myaskovsky
13. Scriabin
12. Glazunov
11. Shostakovich
10. Schnittke
9. Rachmaninoff
8. Khachaturian (Armenian, of course)
7. Glinka
6. Borodin
5. Stravinsky
4. Rimsky-Korsakov
3. Mussorgsky
2. Tchaikovsky
1. Prokofiev


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## haziz

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Rimsky-Korsakov
3. Kalinnikov
4. Borodin
5. Rachmaninoff
6. Shostakovich
7. Mussorgsky
8. Glazunov
9. Balakirev
10. Ippolitov-Ivanov


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## Bulldog

Current Preferences:

1. Shostakovich
2. Prokofiev
3. Weinberg
4. Scriabin
5. Myaskovsky
6. Kabalevsky
7. Rachmaninov
8. Taneyev
9. Mussorgsky
10. Shebalin


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## Richannes Wrahms

Richannes Wrahms said:


> My top 10 favourites:
> 
> 1. Tchaikovsky
> 2. Borodin
> 3. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 4. Mussorgsky
> 5. Scriabin
> 6. Prokofiev
> 7. Stravinsky
> 8. Glinka
> 9. Rachmaninoff
> 10. Gliere


1. Mussorgsky
2. Stravinsky
3. Prokofiev
4. Borodin
5. Rachmaninoff
6. Scriabin
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
8. Denisov
9. Tchaikovsky
10. Taneyev


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## Kreisler jr

The order is not very precise (for almost all of them there is quite a bit of their work I do not much care for or have never heard)

1. Stravinsky
2. Prokofiev
3. Shostakovich
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Mussorgsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Borodin
8. Medtner
9. Rachmaninoff
10. Mossolov


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## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> Shostakovich
> Stravinsky
> Gubaidulina
> Mussorgsky
> Tchaikovsky
> Myaskovsky
> Prokofiev
> Gliere
> Rimsky-Korsakov
> Grechaninov


Nine years later:

1. Shostakovich
2. Gubaidulina
3. Tchaikovsky
4. Stravinsky
5. Prokofiev
6. Mussorgsky
7. Myaskovsky
8. Weinberg
9. Scriabin
10. Gliere


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## advokat

1. Rachmaninoff
2. Tchaikovsky
3. Borodin
4. Myaskovsky
5. Taneyev
6. Glazunov 
7. Sviridov
8. Grechaninov
9. Scriabin
10. Medtner


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## VoiceFromTheEther

1. Tchaikovsky
2. Stravinsky
3. Shostakovich
4. Khachaturian
5. Borodin
6. Prokofiev
7. Rachmaninoff
8. Rimsky
9. Mussorgsky
10. Glazunov


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## JohnP

1. Shostakovich
2. Stravinsky
3. Rachmaninoff
4. Prokofiev
5. Scriabin
6. Tchaikovsky
7. Medtner
8. Bortkiewicz
9. Rimsky-Korsakov
10. Myaskovsky


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## Animal the Drummer

haziz said:


> 1. Tchaikovsky
> 2. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 3. Kalinnikov
> 4. Borodin
> 5. Rachmaninoff
> 6. Shostakovich
> 7. Mussorgsky
> 8. Glazunov
> 9. Balakirev
> 10. Ippolitov-Ivanov


I have many of the same names on my list, in a different order:

Rachmaninov
Balakirev
Kalinnikov
Rimsky-Korsakov
Lyapunov
Borodin
Mussorgsky
Liadov
Tchaikovsky
Medtner


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## Barbebleu

Shostakovich 
Mussorgsky 
Borodin
Rimsky-Korsakov
The rest.


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## Heck148

1. Stravinsky
1. Shostakovich

3. Prokofiev
4. Khachaturian
5. Tchaikovsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. Mussorgsky
8. Scriabin
9. Kabalevsky
10. Glazunov


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## MusicSybarite

Shostakovich
Prokofiev
Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninov
Glazunov
Rimsky-Korsakov
Kabalevsky
Taneyev
Myaskovsky
Stravinsky


Honorable mentions: Boris Tchaikovsky, Reinhold Glière, Mieczyslaw Weinberg, Andrei Eshpai


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## Andante Largo

1. Rachmaninov
2. Gretchaninov
3. Davydov
4. Borodin
5. Tchaikovsky
6. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. -
8. -
9. -
10. -


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## RussianFlute

Since thread has been resurrected I might as well chime in. It is tough to decide! This would probably change on a weekly basis. 
1.) Myaskovsky
2.) Prokofiev
3.) Gliere
4.) Weinberg 
5.) Kalinnikov
6.) Kabalevsky 
7.) Borodin 
8.) Khachaturian 
9.) Rybnikov
10.) Shebalin


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## Livly_Station

1. Scriabin
2. Shostakovich
3. Prokofiev
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Schnittke
6. Rachmaninoff
7. Myaskovsky
8. Stravinsky
9. Lyadov
10. Kapustin

There are too many I'm still unfamiliar with, though.


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