# Least favorite piano concertos



## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

We have many threads about our favorite _concertantes_ for piano and orchestra. What about the other ones. Those that, while listening, you can only think "that's _cheapo_".

My list begins with 
_Scharwenka _(He wrote so many that I can't really list the worst one*)
_Rubinstein's 5th _(A pale reflection on Beethoven's Emperor?)
_Litolff's 3rd_. I have his concertos #2, 3, 4 and five from the Hyperion series, but after listening to the third I didn't really dared to invest my time in the others. Anybody here thinks I'm wrong? Should I explore the others?
Rubinstein's _Caprice russe _and _Fantasy op. 80_. Not strict piano concertos, but they have a piano, and they have an orchestra (they just don't have interesting material).

*IMO, of course. The whole thread is based on this primordial substance.


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## MungoPark (Feb 15, 2007)

*There are so many*

How about all of Antheil's concertos, as well as those by Poulenc. Oh, and I hate Gershwin's piano concerto too. I'm also not a big fan of Ravel's piano concertos. Oh, Prokofiev's concertos are substandard. I realize that many people probably like these pieces, which is what makes it so fun to express how much I think this music sucks.


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## Guest (May 15, 2007)

My least favorite piano concertos are all the ones MungoPark likes best. 

But seriously, Prokofiev's substandard? By what possible scale could those beauties be substandard? Wow, even the first, with that lame opening bit...

And Poulenc and Ravel? Hmmm. Poor dear. Now you've got me just feeling sorry for you. Oh well. Doesn't affect my listening. 

Gershwin, on the other hand. That's pretty nearly unlistenable, I must say.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

some guy said:


> My least favorite piano concertos are all the ones MungoPark likes best.


Me too. Perhaps he confused threads and was listing his _favorites _piano concertos.



> How about all of Antheil's concertos, as well as those by Poulenc. Oh, and I hate Gershwin's piano concerto too. I'm also not a big fan of Ravel's piano concertos. Oh, Prokofiev's concertos are substandard. I realize that many people probably like these pieces, which is what makes it so fun to express how much I think this music sucks.


With the clear exception of Antheil (the godawful jazzy guy) you are despising part of the standard repertoire...


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## Guest (May 15, 2007)

What about Mozart's 1st? 

Does it exist? 

Has anyone ever heard it?

Presumeably it was written when he was about 3 months old.


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## Don (May 15, 2007)

Manuel said:


> We have many threads about our favorite _concertantes_ for piano and orchestra. What about the other ones. Those that, while listening, you can only think "that's _cheapo_".
> 
> My list begins with
> _Scharwenka _(He wrote so many that I can't really list the worst one*)
> ...


I like Litolff's 3rd very much as long as I accept what it doesn't have to offer. But if you dislike the 3rd, I doubt you'll enjoy the others (except that the 5th is more serious in personality).


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Don said:


> I like Litolff's 3rd very much as long as I accept what it doesn't have to offer. But if you dislike the 3rd, I doubt you'll enjoy the others (except that the 5th is more serious in personality).


After reading your post I went to the cd player, removed the first cd of Prokofiev's Cinderella, and gave the third a listen...

...

I must confess I don't think it's _that _bad after all. My first impression on this work, and the same happens with many concertos in the same style, was that it's a long succession of Cramer etudes: rapid arpeggios, fast scales, thirds at _presto volante_ and so on.



> as long as I accept what it doesn't have to offer


With this idea in mind I now enjoy the work. I think my mistake was to expect too much from them (I know... Litolff wasn't Brahms, not even close). I try other concertos by Litolff now (and about 30 other volumes I have from Hyperion's Romantic Piano Concertos series I originally discarded as second rate material).

However, there's something you can not change, Don. And it's the fact that I'm usually annoyed by lots of _sixth runs _in the higher register of the piano. Why did romantics had to overuse this resource?


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

I may get some flames for this one, but here goes...

_*Chopin's 1st in e minor*_...

I find the first movement plodding and boring with few contrasts, next to no modulations and absolutely banal orchestral writing.

The second mvmt is a little more typically Chopinesque, but pales in comparison to the 2nd mvmt of Concerto No. 2.

The third mvmt I find somewhat entertaining for its technical bravura but cannot be compared to other Rondo Finales... Schumann's and even Mendelssohn's I find much more musical.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

> The third mvmt I find somewhat entertaining for its technical bravura but cannot be compared to other Rondo Finales... Schumann's and even Mendelssohn's I find much more musical.


Really? I find the first movement the most brave of all. As a pianist you have to keep a balance between what is marked _allegro _and the somber melancholy of the whole piece. Stylisticaly, that's very demanding.


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## Morigan (Oct 16, 2006)

dch222 said:


> What about Mozart's 1st?
> 
> Does it exist?
> 
> ...


The four first of Mozart's piano concerti were not written by him.

"Although these works were long considered to be original, they are now known to be orchestrations of sonatas by various German virtuosi."

The next piano works by Mozart are three harpsichord sonatas composed by J.C. Bach and orchestrated by the Mozart family for their little "shows" in France. The first Mozart Piano Concerto considered to be genuine is the No. 5. It was composed when he was 17 years old.

The first compositions by Mozart (K. 1) are a collection of very short (20 seconds) and simple solo piano pieces that Wolfgang had composed for his sister Nannerl. They were part of something called "Nannerl's Music Book", in which Leopold and Wolfgang wrote practice pieces for the girl to learn to play. He was apparently 5 years old at the time.

There are many legends surrounding the youth of Mozart; K. 1 is the first known composition by the boy, but his family said he started improvising and composing simple melodies at an early age. In fact, the same could be said of many, many composers. No one just really _cared_ all that much about the 20-second piano pieces of their childhood. 

Three months old?? Come on, a baby so young couldn't possibly compose anything, let alone talk or understand music at all.


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## Amade Van Haydn (May 12, 2007)

Hi!

After reading the title of the thread I was sure to see here some nominations for Liszts concertos. Does really everyone here like his "Triangle-concertos"? 

Chopins piano concertos are a little immature early works. You shouldn't await too much from these.

With Gershwin I agree, I don't like it, too.

About Scharwenka, Litolff etc.: They are such unknown that a low rating may not surprise. It's more interesting to "attack" the prominent works.  

Another one I must nominate: Shostakowitch's concerto for piano, trumpet and orchestra: What a superfluos work!  

Regards,
AVH.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Morigan said:


> The four first of Mozart's piano concerti were not written by him.
> 
> "Although these works were long considered to be original, they are now known to be orchestrations of sonatas by various German virtuosi."


That's right. Booklet notes from the Philips edition for the complete piano concertos shows

Concerto for piano and orchestra Nº1 in F K 37
01. Allegro 
_ on H. F. Raupach, Sonata Op. 1 Nº 5_
02. Andante
03. Allegro
_ on L. Honauer, Sonata Op. 2 Nº 3_



> Does really everyone here like his "Triangle-concertos"?
> 
> Chopins piano concertos are a little immature early works. You shouldn't await too much from these.
> 
> ...


I love the three concertos by Liszt.
I love both Chopin concertos.
I really enjoy Gershwin's pc.
Shostakovich's first is not the greatest piano concerto ever, but it's indeed an interesting work.

Your list is perfect for my "favorite piano concertos" thread.


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

Amade Van Haydn said:


> Chopins piano concertos are a little immature early works. You shouldn't await too much from these.


This is a very sober comment that many people forget. The piano concertos are Op. 11 and Op. 21, written when he was only 20 years old, before his formal education was complete and before he had written the works that would later secure his name as one of the greatest piano-composers in the history of music.

I dare say that if he had not written all the etudes, polonaises, preludes, walzes, impromptus and mazurkas, his piano concertos would be rarely performed, perhaps never.


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## Don (May 15, 2007)

Kurkikohtaus said:


> I dare say that if he had not written all the etudes, polonaises, preludes, walzes, impromptus and mazurkas, his piano concertos would be rarely performed, perhaps never.


I can't agree. The concertos have some wonderful melodies that would likely insure a healthy exposure in concerts and on disc.


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## Guest (May 17, 2007)

I agree with Don. I consider Chopin’s Piano Concertos 1 & 2 to be very worthy pieces in their own right, regardless of Chopin’s reputation more generally. 

On a wider issue, I have trouble with the concept of "least favourite". Does it mean among one's favourites those which are at the bottom of the pile? Alternatively, does it mean ones which are not liked at all, or not much? Someone else raised the same concept with respect to “least favourite” composers, which has led to a very confused discussion. It seems an odd concept to me. Perhaps someone could explain what it is supposed to mean.


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## Don (May 15, 2007)

Mango said:


> I agree with Don. I consider Chopin's Piano Concertos 1 & 2 to be very worthy pieces in their own right, regardless of Chopin's reputation more generally.
> 
> On a wider issue, I have trouble with the concept of "least favourite". Does it mean among one's favourites those which are at the bottom of the pile? Alternatively, does it mean ones which are not liked at all, or not much? Someone else raised the same concept with respect to "least favourite" composers, which has led to a very confused discussion. It seems an odd concept to me. Perhaps someone could explain what it is supposed to mean.


I always take it to mean "worst".


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## pk-k (May 13, 2007)

I like a Piano Concerto a minor - E. Grieg... that's really good, particularly a cadencie ( a first part )


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## Amade Van Haydn (May 12, 2007)

Hi!



> I can't agree. The concertos have some wonderful melodies that would likely insure a healthy exposure in concerts and on disc.





> I consider Chopin's Piano Concertos 1 & 2 to be very worthy pieces in their own right,


Thats also true for the piano concertos by Paisiello, J.C. Bach, Field, ... - and who plays/hears them? 

Poulenc was also mentioned here. I can understand everyone who votes him here. Either you like his style or you dislike it. I like it. I enjoy it! 

Regards,
AVH.


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## MungoPark (Feb 15, 2007)

*I hear them!*



Amade Van Haydn said:


> Hi!
> 
> Thats also true for the piano concertos by Paisiello, J.C. Bach, Field, ... - and who plays/hears them?
> 
> ...


I especially like the concertos by Paisiello. They're the best non-Mozart piano concertos of the period.


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## JAKE WYB (May 28, 2009)

i find the VAUGHAN WILLIAMS concerto particularly unpleasant - and there arent manymore ardent VW fans than I, but this work I find grinding and coarse.

I also get annoyed by SHOSTAKOVICH's 2nd - a cheap and empty trifle after a number of lstens - doesnt deserve its far too numerasble appearances ont he ocnert platform - when the far more enjoyable and interesting bartok concertos get much less of a look in


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I am particularly unimpressed with the piano concerti of Kabelevsky.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

That's easy: Nino Rota's piano concerto soirée. It's hard to beat such a silly music. Oh God, I saw it live, just horrible.


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## wolf (May 16, 2009)

Kurkikohtaus said:


> I may get some flames for this one, but here goes...
> 
> _*Chopin's 1st in e minor*_...
> 
> ...


I don't agree that the 3rd mvt is better, it's even lousier. (Not to mention the Krakowiak rdo that sounds as LloydWebber. No, I didn't write that...) The whole concert pales in comparision with the 2nd - or rather the 2nd is the first really. Schumanns is wonderful, but Chopin was no orchestral genius, only had it as a background almost. Still I do love the F minor...


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

wolf said:


> I don't agree that the 3rd mvt is better, it's even lousier.


So much for being subtle. 

Wolf, your behavior is really interesting. You seem to love to tear down people, then build them back up again with something more positive. If I were your psychologist, I would definitely get you on some kind of medication.

Your troll-like behavior is becoming more and more apparent each time you post a new message.


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## wolf (May 16, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> So much for being subtle.
> 
> Wolf, your behavior is really interesting. You seem to love to tear down people, then build them back up again with something more positive. If I were your psychologist, I would definitely get you on some kind of medication.
> 
> Your troll-like behavior is becoming more and more apparent each time you post a new message.


Read HIS post! He is saying that he doesn't like the 3rd mvt REALLY as it cannot be compared to other rondos. It's only brilliant technically, he says the F minor is much better, So I joke and say that the 3rd is even less good than the 2 first mvts. And we agree that the F minor is better. What's so horrible about that?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

wolf said:


> Read HIS post! He is saying that he doesn't like the 3rd mvt REALLY as it cannot be compared to other rondos. It's only brilliant technically, he says the F minor is much better, So I joke and say that the 3rd is even less good than the 2 first mvts. And we agree that the F minor is better. What's so horrible about that?


Where are you from again?


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## confuoco (Feb 8, 2008)

Chopin and Liszt concertos


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## R-F (Feb 12, 2008)

I was going to mention the Vaughn Williams Piano Concerto too. I saw it at the Proms and remember being pretty unimpressed. There didn't seem to be anything particularly interesting in it.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

R-F said:


> I was going to mention the Vaughn Williams Piano Concerto too. I saw it at the Proms and remember being pretty unimpressed. There didn't seem to be anything particularly interesting in it.


All right... the closing Fuga cromatica is everything but unimpressive...


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## R-F (Feb 12, 2008)

I don't actually remember the ending.  I suppose it didn't help that the whole hall was being drowned out by the sounds of torrential rain...


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