# Round Three:Nel di della vittoria . Baltsa, Bumbry



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)




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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Isn't Baltsa always billed as a mezzo? I' d never guess it from the way she sounds here. Ideally, I'd wish for a darker, less cheerful and wholesome timbre in this role. She is a very intelligent and musical singer, however, and I like her articulation of certain passages better than Bumbry's (the opening recitative, for example, and her treatment of "Duncano sara qui"). Her reading of the letter is beautifully enunciated, and since she draws me back for a second hearing while Bumbry doesn't, I'll go for her.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Baltsa’s tempo is too fast and she makes the _cabaletta _at the expense of definition and some smudged _coloratura. _I found the voice a bit light and the slender tone not quite right. I admire the fact that she throws herself into the aria fearlessly, a trait she shares with Bumbry. She eschews the trills and doesn’t go deeply into her chest register. But she sings some of the lines fluidly rather than dramatically, which I found refreshing.

I’ve never found Bumbry’s rather hard tone attractive, but she has a superb technique that allowed her to sing roles as difficult as Abigaille in *Nabucco *without damage to her voice.

In this aria from *Macbeth *she has all the requisite qualities to sing it without shirking anything, high or low and has decent _coloratura _runs and can trills halfway decently. The only demerit is that she forgets the words whenever the line goes high and complicated.
Also, the last rising run is awkward.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Baltsa's tempo is a bit fast, I'll grant you, but it's undeniably exciting and her top notes are splendid, as they were in the theatre (the most thrilling Eboli of my experience). She reads the letter well and I find her treatment of the recitatives more interesting,
Bumbry is good too, but I don't find her as exciting. The final flourish is a bit messy too, where Baltsa is well-nigh perfect, as you'd expect from a Rossini singer. 
I'm possibly biased as I heard Baltsa quite a few times in the theatre, and she was always an exciting and dramatically convincing singer, both in comedy and tragedy. Anyway, it's Baltsa for me.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Looks like Verdi would not like my reason for choosing Baltsa very much because often he has indicated that he wants his Queen unattractive and with a voice that is not beautiful. 
But of the two fine voices pitted against each other in this one, I prefer the voice of Baltsa -- pretty or not. She seemed a bit smoother in her reading as well. But it's close.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

The Agnes Baltsa recording isn't too shabby for a fan recording made from a LP released only in Greece in 1988 and which hasn't made an appearance on disc in the intervening 34 years..

I would have liked a third choice - "One half point for each"


















Agnes Baltsa, Verdi, Donizetti, Mozart, Berlioz, Münchner Rundfunkorchester, Alberto Zedda - Arias · Arien · Airs


View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1988 Vinyl release of "Arias · Arien · Airs" on Discogs.




www.discogs.com


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> The Agnes Baltsa recording isn't too shabby for a fan recording made from a LP released only in Greece in 1988 and which hasn't made an appearance on disc in the intervening 34 years..
> 
> I would have liked a third choice - "One half point for each"
> 
> ...


It was also issued on CD in1987, both in Europe and the US. I used to have the LP and I remember it being reviewed in Gramophone magazine, though you’re right it’s never been reissued.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Both voices seem very beautiful. I don't know what Verdi could mean when he wrote that Lady Macbeth should sing with unpleasant or not beautiful voice. Obviously she shouldn't sound like Violetta or Gilda. Maybe he was occupied that a "beautiful" voice would let us accept her as a lonely and unhappy person, who turned the wrong direction. 
Macbeth is one of the most frequent operas to go, but every time to guess Lady Macbeth's riddles. Who is she? Why didn't she choose less straight way to power (OK, it's a slippery question even in XXI century)? Why couldn't she bear what she'd got? Where her reactive psychosis did come from, she even didn't see Birnam forest walking? How indeed she did need her husband's attention? 
Here I chose Baltsa, because her Lady seemed more lyrical and introspective compared to no less beautiful, but more scheming Bumbry's.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> I don't know what Verdi could mean when he wrote that Lady Macbeth should sing with unpleasant or not beautiful voice. Obviously she shouldn't sound like Violetta or Gilda. Maybe he was occupied that a "beautiful" voice would let us accept her as a lonely and unhappy person, who turned the wrong direction.


The explanation probably lies more in the fact that Verdi disagreed with the casting of a certain Eugenia Tadolini, in the role of Lady Macbeth. She had played Alzira in the first production of the opera and was apparently a somewhat narcissistic prima donna. It seems it was the most diplomatic way of getting rid of her and recasting the role. However there is no doubt Verdi was more concerned with the dramatic side of the opera than he was with some of his earlier operas.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The explanation probably lies more in the fact that Verdi disagreed with the casting of a certain Eugenia Tadolini, in the role of Lady Macbeth. She had played Alzira in the first production of the opera and was apparently a somewhat narcissistic prima donna. It seems it was the most diplomatic way of getting rid of her and recasting the role. However there is no doubt Verdi was more concerned with the dramatic side of the opera than he was with some of his earlier operas.


Sounds nice. "Eugenia, sweetheart, you are too cute to play such a well on life aunt! What people would say!"


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The explanation probably lies more in the fact that Verdi disagreed with the casting of a certain Eugenia Tadolini, in the role of Lady Macbeth. She had played Alzira in the first production of the opera and was apparently a somewhat narcissistic prima donna. It seems it was the most diplomatic way of getting rid of her and recasting the role. However there is no doubt Verdi was more concerned with the dramatic side of the opera than he was with some of his earlier operas.


The things you know


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Baltsa, for me.

I'm pleasantly surprised: I've heard so many yodelling performances of this scene that I assumed that was inevitable. On top of that, Baltsa's forays into heavier rep can highlight the distinct registers in her voice.

However, Baltsa is both highly articulate, and it's beautifully well sung as well as vividly performed. Moreover, somehow Baltsa's voice sounds as unified and well-equalized here as I think I've heard her! Brilliant. 

Bumbry's performance is less imaginative. Nevertheless, I appreciated the warmth and volume of her sound; it just does not strike this listener as a profound characterization.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The explanation probably lies more in the fact that Verdi disagreed with the casting of a certain Eugenia Tadolini, in the role of Lady Macbeth. She had played Alzira in the first production of the opera and was apparently a somewhat narcissistic prima donna. It seems it was the most diplomatic way of getting rid of her and recasting the role. However there is no doubt Verdi was more concerned with the dramatic side of the opera than he was with some of his earlier operas.


"An early admirer of Verdi, she created the title role of _Alzira_ in 1845 and sang in some of the earliest performances of four of his other operas: Griselda in _I Lombardi alla prima crociata, _Elvira in _Ernani_, Odabella in _Attila_, and Lady Macbeth in _Macbeth_. She in turn was admired by Verdi's wife, Giuseppina Strepponi, who termed her "one of the greatest talents we possess". In 1844 she sang in the Vienna premiere of _Ernani_ after which, the composer heard (much to his annoyance) that she had substituted her Act I cavatina, "Ernani! Ernani, involami" with Giselda's cavatina "Non fu sogno" from _I Lombardi alla prima crociata_. Nevertheless, the Vienna premiere was a resounding success, even without the original cavatina, and Verdi was determined to have her as his first Alzira. He even delayed the rehearsals until she recovered from the birth of her child.

" In 1848, however, he wanted her to be replaced as Lady Macbeth for the first Naples performance of _Macbeth_ on the grounds that her voice and appearance were too beautiful In his often quoted letter to Salvadore Cammarano, which he wanted passed on to the Teatro San Carlo management, Verdi wrote:


> You know how highly I regard Tadolini, and she herself knows it; but I believe it's necessary – for the interest of all concerned. Tadolini's qualities are far too good for that role! This may seem absurd to you!! ... Tadolini has a beautiful and attractive appearance; and I would like Lady Macbeth to be ugly and evil. Tadolini sings to perfection; and I would like the Lady not to sing. Tadolini has a stupendous voice, clear, limpid, powerful; and I would like the Lady to have a harsh, stifled, and hollow voice. Tadolini's voice has an angelic quality; I would like the Lady's voice to be diabolical.


Despite Verdi's urging, and the best efforts of Cammarano, the theatre refused to replace her, as she was one of its reigning stars at the time.

Verdi's view of her unsuitability for roles like Lady Macbeth was similar to that expressed 10 years earlier by Felice Romani who saw her in Bellini's _La straniera_. Although he praised the quality of her singing in the performance, and was a long time admirer of Tadolini, Romani found her lovely voice and appearance less than ideal for a role like Alaide:


> She has too many gifts for Alaide, too much light in her beautiful eyes, too much charm in her smile, for the mysterious Foreign Woman. Her voice full, sweet, and embellished, is made for joy, for the love that consoles, for afflictions borne with hope, not for torments and a stormy heart, not for the ravings of a soul in anguish, not for the cries of despair."





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenia_Tadolini


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It was also issued on CD in1987, both in Europe and the US. I used to have the LP and I remember it being reviewed in Gramophone magazine, though you’re right it’s never been reissued.


True. I had to get a used copy when I bought it a couple of years ago. (I went on a bit of a Baltsa spree on the back of one of your posts in the recitals thread.)

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I like Baltsa, but this role goes a bit beyond her powers and she doesn't force her voice to go where it doesn't want to go (which seems to me the approach employed by Scotto).

I'm not a huge fan of Bumbry (other than of her Amneris in the live Aida from the Met with Price and Bergonzi), but I didn't know what to expect here. I've realised that I don't really like mezzos as the Lady (and that no doubt colours my opinion of Verrett in the role), although Cossotto is one that I like. I like some of what Bumbry does and she is more suited to the aria than Baltsa. That said, neither is a performance that really hits the high spot for me, though neither is bad.

Both are nicely sung, but I was mostly bored. I realise that I will be alone in this, but I prefer the imperfect verve of Souliotis and Scotto over these polite Ladies! I will choose Baltsa for her better technique.

Incidentally, I didn't know that there was a live Fischer-Dieskau Macbeth. Orfeo also have a live Ludwig/Milnes Macbeth which is superb.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Both are nicely sung, but I was mostly bored. I realise that I will be alone in this, but I prefer the imperfect verve of Souliotis and Scotto over these polite Ladies! I will choose Baltsa for her better technique.


Verve or not, I prefer someone who can sing all the notes rather than an approximation of them.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Verve or not, I prefer someone who can sing all the notes rather than an approximation of them.


In other roles I would agree with you and Scotto and Souliotis are aproximate enough for me.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Verve or not, I prefer someone who can sing all the notes rather than an approximation of them.


In my opinion this role is similar to Abigaille in that it is a killer and very few singers other than Callas have everything it takes to sing it.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Baltsa’s tempo is too fast and she makes the _cabaletta _at the expense of definition and some *smudged *_*coloratura*. _


What is the smudged coloratura ? I have encountered this expression before. Do you mean the lack of pitch definition or is it something else ?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Baltsa, for me.
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised: I've heard so many yodelling performances of this scene that I assumed that was inevitable. On top of that, Baltsa's forays into heavier rep can highlight the distinct registers in her voice.
> 
> ...


I think live Bumbry would be different with her glorious voice and physical acting. For instance Nilsson doesn't act with her voice much but became one of the greatest physical actresses in opera by late in her career. Same for Varnay.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> What is the smudged coloratura ? I have encountered this expression before. Do you mean the lack of pitch definition or is it something else ?


Indistinct. Some notes fudged. The opposite of what you would hear Callas, Sutherland, Horne or Sills doing. You will hear this in some singers of Lady Macbeth who have the volume to sing this dramatic role but not the accuracy to fulfill all the dexterous coloratura embellishments. In more recent singers you might hear this smudged coloratura with the gorgeous and dramatic Guleghina. Ask away sweetie! On the other had many hate the machine gun quality of Bartoli which is too distinct. I really love how Horne does the disctinctiveness so dramatically at 11:23.


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