# Michael Haydn



## clavichorder

I recently checked out three Michael Haydn symphonies at the library. So far I'm enjoying symphony 26. His themes are not as good as say, Dittersdorf(or his brother by a long shot), but he's a little richer in my opinion, more varied ideas. So, I recommend symphony 26 in particular, having heard 26-28. I'm curious to know more about him as a composer and a brother of Haydn. He was pretty prolific, having written about 40 symphonies.

How do YOU think he measures up compared to other classical era composers? Who can he be compared to most closely? My only points of solid reference are Dittersdorf and Franz Joseph Haydn, but there are probably other mid classical Austrian composers to get to know. So far from what I can tell, there is more to him than just being Haydn's brother.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Agree entirely. Even the "symphony no.37" (K444) that landed into Mozart's oeuvre clearly showed Michael Haydn knew what he was doing. I would include Boccherini. Haydn's various requiem as performed by The King's Consort (on period instruments) was quite good.


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## haydnfan

I like his trumpet concerto!


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## Jobe

My sentiments precisely concerning Michael Haydn's trumpet concerto. I also agree that he is known as Jozef Haydn's brother - not the other way round - for a good reason (God bless you Mike).

However, he's still a very celebrated composer. I mean, there aren't that many composers that people actually know about in the classical era itself and I think Michael Haydn is among the more famous interlocutors musically... Or maybe people are just getting the wrong Haydn? Or maybe everyone's conscious that Mozart stole a couple of his symphonies?


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## Johnnie Burgess

Michael Haydn wrote some very good symphonies. He is overshadowed by his brother and that is a shame.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Yes, he was his younger brother. Does not mean people should overlook him.


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## hammeredklavier




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## hammeredklavier




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## hammeredklavier

clavichorder said:


> His themes are not as good as say, Dittersdorf(or his brother by a long shot)


Harmony & Counterpoint : Joseph Haydn VS. Michael Haydn
Also when it comes to the "cyclic form" or whatever, he's more interesting than his brother's.

*symphony No.33 in B flat (1786)*

I. Vivace: 



II. Adagietto cantabile: 




I. Vivace: 



IV. Presto ma non troppo: 




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I also speculate that some prototypical ideas for building a "traverse from darkness to light" were passed from Michael (symphony No.29 in D minor , 1784) [1] on through Mozart (K.466) [2], eventually to Beethoven.

*symphony No.29 in D minor (1784)* - 0:01 , 12:55 , 16:22

[1]: "The third movement is a rondeau, Presto scherzante. Horns are in F, trumpets in D. The A theme could be seen as a metamorphosis of the first subject of the first movement." -wikipedia
[2]: "The entry of the piano here, a new material, but interestingly, it's exactly the same chord structure as that first entry in the first movement. A wonderful sense of Mozart referring back to what we remember, having heard before." -Charles Hazlewood

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*Missa in C, sancti Hieronymi (1777)*, aka. "Oboenmesse", sounds like a "continuous" line of Neapolitan mass music with oboe obbligato/ritornello. In addition to the late 18th-century style "through-composition" in the movements, notice there is a "tendency" for a "continuity" of melody (themes from one movement get used in the subsequent movements in altered forms).
Quoniam tu salus (the end of Gloria): 



Patrem omnipotentem (the beginning of Credo): 



Preparation/build-up leading to the concluding fugue of Credo: 



 (19:05).

Now, look at Joseph's: 



I think the difference between two brothers is much like that between Liszt and Brahms.
One of them is more "pompous" and seems more "innovative" on the surface, but the other has more "substance".



hammeredklavier said:


> This work was written in 1771. I think belongs more in the 1770s in style; the Gregorian melody of the opening movement ("Te decet") quotes J.A. Hasse's Requiem in C, which was written 8 years earlier. The arias also have a certain "Hassean" post-Baroque quality about them. An exceptional work for its time, but Mozart's by comparison sounds more "contemporary" to the late Classical period, like Die Zauberflote, for example.
> 
> I always think that Michael's influence on Mozart (his younger colleague and friend), Weber (his pupil), Schubert (his admirer) is more important and significant than his brother Joseph's (whose influence on Mozart did not go beyond some rhythmically rustic expressions in string ensemble music.) in terms of dramatic/expressive chromaticism.
> 4:28 (written in 1773) , 3:00 , 1:37 , 1:24 , 1:17 (written in 1772) , 5:49 (written in 1768)
> {Never found Joseph's use of chromaticism really "striking" tbh btw; seems to be just "playing around notes for notes' sake" on the "surface" level: 23:55 , 12:20. It might be why his music can sometimes be seen as "narrow" in terms of emotional scope. I'm even inclined to think his Op.20 should classify as "divertimentos", but this is a topic for another thread.}
> 
> The way to set the text "Lacrimosa dies illa" for psychological effect in the final minutes of the Dies irae (11:40~13:40); I believe this even goes beyond his contemporary Gluck's achievements in operatic music. Also look at sections like: 12:41 , 14:01 , 16:55, etc.
> 
> "In just two weeks Michael Haydn composed his work in December 1771, on the occasion of the death of his employer, Prince Bishop Sigismund Count Schrattenbach, who was beloved among the people and was a great patron of the arts. The work was written under the impression of personal tragedy: Haydn's only child, Aloisia Josepha, died in January 1771, before completing her first year of life."
> 
> The Michael Haydn requiem also influenced works of Mozart Mozart himself actually considered important such as K.339/iv (from the vespers, which Mozart himself held in high regard) and K.426 (which Mozart later transcribed for strings and added an introductory adagio, and would profoundly affect Beethoven). For instance, K.339/iv (with its subject) is unmistakably reminiscent of the Cum sanctis tuis from the Michael Haydn requiem. Both K.339/iv and K.426 deal with this motivic expression, found in the Michael Haydn:
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> K.426, I believe, just takes the chromatic expressivity to the maximum. (There are other works such as K.194, K.243, K.257, etc where Mozart takes ideas from the Michael Haydn requiem, but I'll just focus on K.339, K.426 in this post)
> 
> Btw, this is how I see the formal layout:
> *Requiem in C Minor, MH 155 (1771)*
> "trumpet signal" & requiem 1st theme: [ 0:20 ]
> requiem 2nd theme: [ 3:20 ~ 3:45 ]
> lacrimosa theme: [ 11:40 ~ 11:48 ]
> chromatic fourth theme (climbing from D to G in the bassline): [ 12:40 ~ 12:50 ]
> hosanna theme (lacrimosa theme transformed/recapitulated): [ 24:21 ~ 24:29 ]
> "trumpet signal": [ 26:48 , 27:56 ]
> chromatic fourth theme recapitulated (climbing from G to C in the soprano solo): [ 28:40 ~ 28:50 ]
> cum sanctis tuis fugue: [ 29:17 ~ 31:16 ]
> requiem 2nd theme recapitulated: [ 31:22 ~ 31:50 ]
> requiem 1st theme recapitulated: [ 31:58 ~ 32:30 ]
> cum sanctis tuis fugue recapitulated: [ 32:38 ~ 34:30 ]


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## hammeredklavier

symphony No.31 in F (1785) 




so full of sorrow and grace

8:56~9:07
9:35~9:54
10:11~10:25


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## hammeredklavier

Missa sanctae Ursulae (1793)




"pitch-black darkness" @ 20:24 
"blazing light" @ 21:00 

build-up to the concluding fugue "cum sancto spiritu" (dazzling harmonies @ 12:50);





gorgeous melodies of the "benedictus";


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## hammeredklavier




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## hammeredklavier

*Missa sancti Aloysii (1777)*
Et incarnatus est - Crucifixus




reminds me of another aria in G minor:





"Dona nobis pacem"




the bit at 24:48~25:00 is an ingenious interpolation of the cantus firmus of


hammeredklavier said:


>


Glorious harmonies in the Gloria:


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## hammeredklavier

"I know of no other composer as fundamentally transformed while writing in minor keys" 
-Alfred Brendel (on Mozart)
"In Salzburg, if not throughout his life, Mozart was writing in a lingua franca and many of the features of that language are to be found in Michael Haydn too." -David Wyn Jones

String Quintet in B-Flat Major, P. 105, MH 412: I. Allegro con garbo





Divertimento in C





String Quintet in F Major, P. 112, MH 411: I. Allegro aperto





String Quintet in F Major, P. 112, MH 411: V. Un poco allegretto - Var. I-VI





String Quintet for 2 Violins, 2 Violas and Violoncello in G Major, P. 109: II. Adagio affettuoso





Missa Sancti Joannis Nepomuceni, MH 182: Gloria














Btw, the sense of "innocent piety" in the kyrie (1:19) is memorable:


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## Gargamel

Where can I find scores for M. Haydn's Symphonies? Some of them are extremely hard to find and unavailable on sites such as Sheet music plus.



Johnnie Burgess said:


> Yes, he was his younger brother. Does not mean people should overlook him.


Yeah, it's like comparing Schumann's obscure gems to to Brahms' highly polished diamonds.


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## hammeredklavier

No.18 in C (1773), with a length of 26:45 (albeit with some repeats), rivals the most substantial symphonies of other composers of the time. 



 (the harmonies at 11:23~12:41 are wonderful).
Compare it with 




"The Minuet is unusual in that it has a composed coda (as opposed to a mere da capo repeat after the trio) something which would become standard in the Scherzi of Ludwig van Beethoven." <wikipedia>
This is something I noticed about No.33 in B flat as well.



Gargamel said:


> Where can I find scores for M. Haydn's Symphonies?


There are string parts for No.29 in D minor available on IMSLP. 
(btw, speaking of the 29th, the transition from the first theme to the second theme in the first movement reminds me of the confutatis from Mozart's requiem and the pedal points in the D major coda of the third movement reminds me of K.466.)



Gargamel said:


> Some of them are extremely hard to find and unavailable on sites such as Sheet music plus.


It's weird cause the scores for his vocal music can be easily downloaded or purchased on the net.
EX.


hammeredklavier said:


> notice there is a "tendency" for a "continuity" of melody (themes from one movement get used in the subsequent movements in altered forms). Quoniam tu salus (the end of Gloria):














hammeredklavier said:


> Patrem omnipotentem (the beginning of Credo):


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## hammeredklavier

No.18 in C: 



 (1:17~1:23) 
K.466: 



 (1:21~1:28 / 1:48~1:52)
Both composers have this sort of "restless" sound in other works, but I can't think of many other examples at the moment.
No.22 in D: 



 (5:12~5:30)
No.23 in F: 



 (1:04~1:12)


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## hammeredklavier

hammeredklavier said:


> symphony No.31 in F (1785)
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> so full of sorrow and grace
> 8:56~9:07
> 9:35~9:54
> 10:11~10:25


No.30 in D (1785): 



K.218: 



K.258:


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## hammeredklavier

unforgettable uses of dissonance
No.23 in F: 



 (3:34~3:56)
No.29 in D minor: 



 (2:11~2:19)


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## hammeredklavier

No.17 in E (1771): 



K.449/iii: 







 (similar to "Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen")




 (similar to K.185/iii)
No.15 in D (1771): 



K.203/i:


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## hammeredklavier

"Even during [Michael Haydn's] early student years, he composed small-scale Masses, litanies, hymns, Salve Reginas, etc., which, *because of their correct setting and pleasing modern taste, were accepted by everyone with great approval.*" 
-Maximilan Stadler (1748~1833), Materialien zur Geschichte der Musik, P.135
("Schon während seine frühen Studienjahren komponirte er kleinere Messen, Litaneyen, Hymnen, salve regina usw., welche wegen richten Satz und dem angenehmen neuern Geschmack von jedermann mit größten Beyfall aufgenommen wurden.")


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## MotoPerpetuo

By M. Haydn there is a lot a funny music!
Listen to this Minuet. First of all the combination oboe, viola & double bass is very unusual! And also in the Trio the accompaniment by viola and double bass is very un-rhythmical.


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## hammeredklavier

MotoPerpetuo said:


> Listen to this Minuet.


Listen to this sumptuous counterpoint @0:42







> the combination oboe, viola & double bass is very unusual! By M. Haydn there is a lot a funny music!


Also, listen to this "deep & dark" sound (produced with the instrumental combination):


hammeredklavier said:


> I.
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> I think the way to handle "darker shades" in this work, especially in the 3rd movement, is reminiscent of his other works such as
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> *(To me, the pedal point on A in the bass "hits like a brick")
> Certain similarities of gesture in the 1st and 6th movements:
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> IV.


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## CopistaSignorGomez

Symphony in G, no 25 from Michael Haydn...

Hearing this wonderfull symphony, really nice second move

and tremendous start, whith pure galant style fire

I found a jewell...

And... Michael Haydn, for me, a legend, also learn something from tremendous composers with production across baroque to galant style

Look this jewel guys











Good Old Michael Haydn learn somethins here from Good Old Quantz

This motif it's been in my mind with obssession since I found this in the favourite Quantz concerto

years ago, so what a surprise Michael Haydn also liked it and use it


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