# Naive to Classical



## jdk (Sep 5, 2012)

To be honest, I got introduced to classical music by a video game which had Chopin's work on it. Simply amazed, and have been overwhelmed by what to look for next. I have enjoyed 'classical' music to an extent by video game scores, which again, introduced me to Tchaikovsky.

I have done some searching and been enjoying pieces by Liszt and Rachmaninoff. What are some composers to look out for or how to look for the right composers? Not sure what categories my aforementioned composers are... - what 'type' of Classical would they fall under?

Cheers,


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Welcome to TalkClassical! Your question will get many diverse answers (which is good). There's really no right way to sample composers. Many will tell you to just jump in and listen to a large variety.

The composers you mentioned are all Romantic and most are specifically known for great piano works. If you especially like piano works, maybe you should start with more Romantic piano. Certainly Beethoven (some say pre-Romantic but very close) and Schubert are much adored composers who wrote wonderful piano music. If you heard a variety of works, I would listen to other Romantic composers (e.g. Mendelssohn, Berlioz, Brahms, Schumann, etc.).

From there just branch out. There are many threads on TalkClassical which list recommended works in many genres. Some people like to sample from "recommended" lists while others like to go their own way. I hope you have as much fun exploring and enjoying classical music as the rest of us have had.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

If you like Chopin, you may enjoy Scriabin.






Similarly, Tchaikovsky greatly inspired fellow Russian composer Alexander Glazunov.






Liszt and Rachmaninoff are two composers with whom I must confess a general lack of familiarity, so below I'll just post a couple of things I think you should try.

Mahler - Symphony No. 1





Ravel - Piano Concerto in G major


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I believe it was member bigshot who pointed out these "greatest hits" of classical music downloads:










To the experienced classical music collector/listener such collections may seem ridiculous... but they are in all honest an incredibly inexpensive way to explore classical music and come to some idea as to what styles... what periods... what composers you quite like. I should note that most of these recordings seem to be by well respected performers. After you get some grasp on what most intrigues you, you can then begin to delve deeper into specific composers/periods/styles and you will get any number of recommendations as to specific works and recordings to look for.:tiphat:


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Welcome to our forum and to classical music ! It's great to see more people discovering this great art form .
Classical music is like a great restaurant with a huge menu of mouth-watering dishes . You can't possibly experience it all at one visit . 
There are so many kinds of classical music , orchestral music, with symphonies, concertos, symphonic poems etc, chamber music with small ensembles of varying instruments, music for solo piano, art songs, or songs for voice and piano based on poetry, choral works such as oratorios and cantatas etc , and opera, for example .
But it helps to have some context, a frame of reference , so I would recomend this excellent book by the renowned pianist and teacher David Dubal of the Juilliard school, "The Essential Canon " of classical music" , which explains everything in a clear and engaging manner , or as an alternate, "Classical Music 101 " by Fred Plotkin. You can easily get them at amazon.com and other similar websites .
It takes a lot more effort to get into classical music than pop or Rock etc, but if you take the time and effort , it can be incredibly rewarding !


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

I would also say, in your case, that it would be good to start with "Best Of" series of albums. Then, when you get a feel for who and what you like, if you want to get a little more serious, I would say that Wikipedia is your friend. Go to any composer's page, and it will ordinarily tell you which works are their most famous and popular (and therefore most instantly likeable), either in the introduction paragraph or in the summary of their work. This will give you a slightly expanded list of things to look into that might not feature on all "Best Of" discs, which should still be easy to find and enjoy.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I believe it was member bigshot who pointed out these "greatest hits" of classical music downloads:


That's the wrong series. A lot of the MP3 box sets are bleeding chunks excerpts, like the one you've pictured here. The good ones are the "Rise of the Masters" series and the "99 Most Essential Masterpieces" featuring specific composers. Those are all complete works, not excerpts. Be aware that the Bach, Mozart and Beethoven "Most Essential" sets have been renamed to include "Complete Works Edition". The regular version has excerpts now.

These particular sets are not just for newbies. I have a massive Classical music collection and many of these performances are definitive versions, in particular the Grieg set. I've never heard better. The Rise of the Masters series is culled from the BIS label and is top quality in both sound quality and performance.

Here are links...

Rise of the Masters (All Recommended)
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1346890... the masters,p_n_feature_browse-bin:625150011

99 Most Essential Masterpieces (All composer titled ones except those that overlap with Rise of the Masters)
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1346890...masterpieces,p_n_feature_browse-bin:625150011

Bach Guild Big Box Series (all recommended)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=digital-music&field-keywords=big+box


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Welcome to classical music :tiphat:



jdk said:


> Not sure what categories my aforementioned composers are... - what 'type' of Classical would they fall under?


They are Romantic composers. Classical in the strict sense of the word refers to Haydn and Mozart and their contemporaries, also sometimes Beethoven and Schubert.



jdk said:


> What are some composers to look out for or how to look for the right composers?


The right composers will change as time goes on. However always start from the famous ones, and famous works.

I would definitely give Verdi's requiem a shot:






More generally I would try Grieg as similar (e.g. piano concerto), and continuing to explore the composers you already like. Remember depth is at least as important as breadth.

Moving slowly backwards, Beethoven of course is one to have a go at, with the famous 5th symphony as starters. It is worth trying Mozart, e.g. 40th symphony, and I will also recommend Haydn. Here is the beautiful slow movement to symphony 44.






Handel, Bach and Vivaldi are the big names of the late Baroque. The Messiah, Third Orchestral suite and four seasons are possibly the best starting places for them respectively.

And the best thing is about Classical music, is that it only gets better as you get to know the pieces better 

EDIT: greatest works sets are great. I got into this music through Beethoven's 5th, Mozart's requiem and all these things, but I had my parents' collections. They'll give you a good overview.


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

I will second Bigshot's recommendation of the Rise of The Masters series. When Amazon dropped the price to $2 I bought them all. 

You mentioned that you like Chopin. The Chopin set is very good.


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## Lizardfolk (Aug 28, 2012)

Hey jdk,

The game wouldn't happen to be Eternal Sonata would it?  I'm glad that your curiosity has been peaked from a game I've always felt that one of classical's problem is that it confines itself to the niche a little too much at times.

But from what it sounds like is that you sound like you'd really like the "Romantic era" of music. Very tonal, melodic, and harmonic music. So I'd say that 20th century or postmodern music wouldn't be your cup of tea.

Beethovan, Chopin, Schumann, Rachmaninoff, maybe some Wagner and Debussy. I'll look for some samples of what I think you'd like and edit my msg in the near future


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Haha, the music was the only good part of Eternal Sonata!

I'd recommend the last 3 symphonies of Dvorak.


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## jdk (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks for the warm welcomes and replies  Looks like I'm gonna be busy! I'm gonna have a real good listen to the recommendations and should have a better understanding to what I'm into - which as others have already mentioned... looks like the Romantic era I'm into.

My local library has Classical CD's so I'll check any of the composers listed here. 'Best of' sounds like a good choice to start with too. And yes, Eternal Sonata is the game that introduced me to Chopin's work of art 

Thanks again, I'll let you know what CD's I came across and thoughts on the composers listed here.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Dvorak works are must have!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hello jdk. Welcome to the forum

I agree with the 'broad brush' approach, as recommended above by some members.

The Naxos 'best of' series is also a great way to explore repertoire of composers you like and any composers of similar time or even beyond that. This is partly the way I began exploring classical music, similar albums to this. They offer mainly excerpts of larger/longer works (but sometimes the whole work, if its short) that kind of whet your appetite and give you some basis to go out and explore more things. Maybe get albums of the whole works from which you may like a movement, or just more music by the same composer.

Below are the Liszt and Rachmaninov albums in that series -


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## jdk (Sep 5, 2012)

On a similar note, are there specific labels to be aware of? As I look for CDs, I get overwhelmed by the amount of different labels/performers/best of/favourite collections etc. Is it all a matter of exploring with trial and error? I've got a few 'best of' and piano favourites, but still not sure on what labels to choose. Maybe I shouldn't worry too much on that for now as a new listener:|


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Double post

I realzed this was an old thread and I had already answered in post 7


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

bigshot said:


> Double post


Probably not.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

On a similar note, are there specific labels to be aware of? As I look for CDs, I get overwhelmed by the amount of different labels/performers/best of/favourite collections etc. Is it all a matter of exploring with trial and error?

With time you'll find that some labels are better than others... some are better at a given genre or period of music than others... and certainly some performers/orchestras/conductors are better than others. You'll also discover that you prefer certain performers/orchestras/conductors over others. This largely comes with experience. For the time being the anthologies mentioned... and on line streaming services such as Spotify offer an inexpensive way to get your feet wet. You can always ask others for recommendations as to the "best" recording of this or that repertoire (ie. "What's the best recording of Chopin's Nocturnes?") but you are likely to get any number of suggestions... and not all of them based in a great deal of experience. Really discovering classical music is a personal journey. Enjoy the trip.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> You can always ask others for recommendations as to the "best" recording of this or that repertoire (ie. "What's the best recording of Chopin's Nocturnes?") but you are likely to get any number of suggestions... and not all of them based in a great deal of experience.




Boy, you can say that again! It's good to sort out who seems to be really knowledgeable and ask them to guru you. I did this with some very knowledgeable musicians early on. You have to kind of put yourself in their hands and follow their lead. If you take a whole bunch of input, you can drift aimlessly.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> Boy, you can say that again! It's good to sort out who seems to be really knowledgeable and ask them to guru you. I did this with some very knowledgeable musicians early on. You have to kind of put yourself in their hands and follow their lead. If you take a whole bunch of input, you can drift aimlessly.


Or you open yourself up to far more varied experiences, rather than just following somebody you trust is experienced (and could be wrong despite that).


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Enlisting the help of someone who's been around the block a few times is never a bad idea. You can randomly flail around looking for what you want, but that takes a very long time and would involve going down a lot of blind alleys. The trick is to find the areas of expertise that gurus can offer you. I imagine that Gunther Wand's recommendations for punk rock CDs would have been about as useful as John Cage's opinion on Bach's cantatas.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Or you open yourself up to far more varied experiences, rather than just following somebody you trust is experienced (and could be wrong despite that).

Interesting comment... especially for an admitted student. So why did you make the choice to undertake formal studies with teachers who are presumably more experienced than yourself? Why not simply open yourself to the more varied experiences of floundering aimlessly? Always good to see someone follow their own advice. .


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Interesting comment... especially for an admitted student. So why did you make the choice to undertake formal studies with teachers who are presumably more experienced than yourself? Why not simply open yourself to the more varied experiences of floundering aimlessly? Always good to see someone follow their own advice. .


That's quite a ridiculous comparison, don't you think? Music education, according to many of my student friends, is first and foremost a way of obtaining the qualifications necessary to teach, and also useful for making contacts within the industry. It's a practical consideration that gives you access to other areas in the field of music that are much easier to make a living from than composing. I highly doubt anyone has been plunged in to poverty simply because they ignored recommended Beethoven symphony recordings.


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## appoggiatura (Feb 6, 2012)

I would say you should check out Schubert and Brahms!


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> That's quite a ridiculous comparison, don't you think? Music education, according to many of my student friends, is first and foremost a way of obtaining the qualifications necessary to teach, and also useful for making contacts within the industry.


Makes you wonder why they bother to have classes in music, doesn't it? They should just have courses in education theory and cocktail mixers.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

bigshot said:


> Makes you wonder why they bother to have classes in music, doesn't it? They should just have courses in education theory and cocktail mixers.


I've never been to a music class outside of very basic stuff when I was in secondary school (analogous to American middle school, I believe) so I don't really know what a typical course entails, but it's probably useful if you are that way inclined. Again, it seems to be more of practical consideration for many, since making money from composing alone is no mean feat.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. 

Another thing that may help you (which helped introduced me to many Classical works) is Public Radio. I have two PBS stations nearby and while driving or when I go to bed I usually tune them in. They usually tell you before and after the music who it was, what orchestra it was, etc, so you aren't left to wonder who did that piece?

As to your Record Label question, Naxos & Brilliant are great "Bargain" brands. Brilliant puts out massive box sets, like a 170 CD box set of all of Mozart's works for just over $100.

You have the bigger historical labels like Deutsche Grammophon, EMI, Decca, RCA/Columbia/Sony who have been around for years and usually had the Biggest names (Conductors, Orchestras, Performers, etc) in Classical Music.

I have CD's from all of them. Some works and composers you can only find on Bargain brands.

Everyone has their own ideas on what recordings are the best but in the end, it's really up to your ears.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

That's quite a ridiculous comparison, don't you think? 

No... I don't think the comparison is ridiculous... and I suspect that only do because it illustrates the fact that experience has a good deal of value.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

It's encouraging to know that the music teachers of tomorrow will be culled from the unemployed musicians of today.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

bigshot said:


> That's the wrong series. A lot of the MP3 box sets are bleeding chunks excerpts


I don't think the bleeding chunk approach is always bad (for newbies in particular), what you say has some truth yes, but I discovered a lot of great music through the bleeding chunk approach, and I still sometimes enjoy my classical in bleeding chunks. I don't have any shame in saying that at all. To do things otherwise I think takes a lot of the fun out of listening. People don't always have 90 minutes to sit through an entire Mahler Symphony. Not trying to completely discredit what you were saying but sometimes it seems some in the classical music crowd try to make things harder than they need to be. The younger generation has been brought up in a completely different time, has been exposed to much shorter punchier pieces of music, and I feel will initially respond to music much differently than someone did many decades ago. Its like saying - _never eat dessert first_! As a general rule yes this is good to follow, but not always so strictly! Sometimes I just want my dessert.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't know if listening to a three minute excerpt from a Mahler symphony really is listening to Mahler. I guess it's better for some things tan others... Ballet music, operatic arias, solo piano pieces, etc


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

bigshot said:


> I don't know if listening to a three minute excerpt from a Mahler symphony really is listening to Mahler. I guess it's better for some things tan others... Ballet music, operatic arias, solo piano pieces, etc


^ In a lot of pieces I don't enjoy all the movements in the work. There are composers that are favorites of mine where I will generally enjoy virtually every moment of all their works, but that is not the case with most. In most Mahler symphonies I only enjoy certain movements. In Debussy's Nocturnes I only enjoy the first two movements. There are many other examples of this kind of thing. I don't feel I should force myself to listen to the entire work if I don't enjoy it, nor should I deprive myself of listening to the part I do enjoy. I don't see the point of that. I realize with many works it takes repeated listens to fully grasp things, but after a certain point I'll gladly take what I enjoy and leave the rest. Whether or not I'm 'really listening to the composer' I don't know, but I listen to music for enjoyment and inspiration. Its not really some trial I feel I have to pass to prove myself as a genuine listener.

Many here seem to suggest that if a listener doesn't appreciate every famous piece by a great composer, it is some kind of a deficiency on their part. I don't agree, and if you take a look through history at many of the most brilliant musical minds, they were often very dismissive and critical of many other major composers. I don't believe in an ideal of universal great art appreciation, where all great works by the major composers are infallible. I think most of them are very flawed actually. But music listening is a very personal thing, and I don't think there are clear cut rights or wrongs, or signs of enlightened listeners, versus fake listeners etc. I am very open to my horizons being widened and coming to enjoy certain works I previously did not, but I also realize with some works the opposite result occurs and I start to enjoy them less.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I just wouldn't pay good money for something somebody took the sciscors to before I even got there! I'd rather hear the whole thing and THEN decide if I want to make a "greatest hits" out of it.

I haven't run across a work I felt the need to edit yet. Most of the things I don't want n my library are consistently awful the whole way thorough. (However, I can't bring myself to delete Bolero from my server, even though I've been very tempted.)


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> That's quite a ridiculous comparison, don't you think? Music education, according to many of my student friends, is first and foremost a way of obtaining the qualifications necessary to teach, and also useful for making contacts within the industry. It's a practical consideration that gives you access to other areas in the field of music that are much easier to make a living from than composing. I highly doubt anyone has been plunged in to poverty simply because they ignored recommended Beethoven symphony recordings.


To be honest I'm studying because I want to learn about how to compose. I want to learn techniques and I want to understand what I'm doing. I genuinely want to try and make my living composing, and so I'm studying with a great teacher and composer to be able to do that.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

That's the right reason to go to school. My tip for you is to realize that school will only take you part of the way. It takes a bit of self study outside of classes on your part.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> That's the right reason to go to school. My tip for you is to realize that school will only take you part of the way. It takes a bit of self study outside of classes on your part.


Oh I do :3 Quite alot. I am a geek afterall


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

You'll do fine. The study never ends, by the way...


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> To be honest I'm studying because I want to learn about how to compose. I want to learn techniques and I want to understand what I'm doing. I genuinely want to try and make my living composing, and so I'm studying with a great teacher and composer to be able to do that.


Good.

P.S.: Good.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

jdk said:


> To be honest, I got introduced to classical music by a video game which had Chopin's work on it. Simply amazed, and have been overwhelmed by what to look for next. I have enjoyed 'classical' music to an extent by video game scores, which again, introduced me to Tchaikovsky.
> 
> I have done some searching and been enjoying pieces by Liszt and Rachmaninoff. What are some composers to look out for or how to look for the right composers? Not sure what categories my aforementioned composers are... - what 'type' of Classical would they fall under?
> 
> Cheers,


Chopin, Listz , Tchaicovsky and Rachmaninoff are romantic composers
Take a look at this "short" the best of Beethoven playlist i made.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlqAua4LizbBo5S5bYTe_CTohyx7kOl_2&feature=view_all
Also you should check out some Sibelius


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