# Is this Classical Music, yes or no ?



## jojoju2000 (Jan 5, 2021)

By the Composer Pham Duy.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I'll try the 3-pronged Ethereality multiplication test.

1. Is the music in question older than average documented music?
It appears the music may have been written in 1960, but I'm not sure. I think 1960 may be older than the average documented music, since most music was composed during the digital era. So we'll rate this prong above-average at 7/10.

2. Is the music in question greater today than the average documented music?
While it doesn't sound that great to me, it does seem to be popular enough. On YouTube for instance it has 150K views which seems to qualify as above-average. We'll rate this prong at another 7/10.

3. Is the music in question more original than the average documented music?
While I've only heard about a third of the music so far, so far it doesn't sound very original. However, average originality isn't that original. So this prong may qualify at a 5/10, but I'm being loose about all my scores.

Now if we multiply these fractions together and it's above average, then this piece as I hear so far, is definitely Classical music of a high quality. Let's see.

2.45/10

Ooh. While others might reevaluate my numbers, this piece may be of classical study in some sense, but it's not a _clear_ high-quality example of the school.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

Dear jojoju2000, if you give me your definition of Classical Music, I can try to check whether the piece in question is fulfilling it ...


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## jojoju2000 (Jan 5, 2021)

Ethereality said:


> I'll try the 3-pronged Ethereality multiplication test.
> 
> 1. Is the music in question older than average documented music?
> It appears the music may have been written in 1960, but I'm not sure. I think 1960 may be older than the average documented music, since most music was composed during the digital era. So we'll rate this prong above-average at 7/10.
> ...


Here's the catch about number 3. The Composer's intent was to combine the European Art Music that he learned at the time with Vietnamese Folk music. So originality might not work.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't actually know enough about originality in music, however I think your description is a perfect example of originality, which is why I say people can reevaluate my scores. Increasing the work's originality will definitely help although it probably won't pass the halfway benchmark of the school.

This 'test' is just an easy fun one, not official. I prefer it because it's very welcoming of new music and actually _old boring unoriginal_ music doesn't always qualify. No composer actually gets to 10/10, the Big 3 are about 8.25 / 10ths, so the halfway thing is just a loose guideline.

This composer _Pham Duy_ doesn't have much of an audience online. For example, Gustav Mahler has somewhere like 500x more listeners, which is a big deal today.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I don't want to watch the video, so you'll have to tell me what you think it is.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Neo Romanza said:


> I don't want to watch the video, so you'll have to tell me what you think it is.


YouTube will obliterate all hope to the fabric of your existence.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

It's very Euro-centric Pop Classical with an element of Asian Pop Classical.

There's also something rather anthemic (or 'patriotic') about it.

Harmonically it's not very adventurous, having the harmonic breadth and width of Handel and Salieri. It's as if the composer had studied composition in 1790. Only the use of harp, percussion, and that very ethnic stringed instrument (it's a _monochord zither, _or a one string guitar) played by the soloist sets it apart from some Royal music from the 1600/1700s. Oh, and the miked vocal soloists; that's very modern.

Knowing that the "_Composer's intent was to combine the European Art Music that he learned at the time with Vietnamese Folk music_" helps categorize it, but except for those Asian elements (percussion and the monochord zither), it's a very, _very_ tonal work that rarely strays from it's root keys. In fact, it seems rather locked into I and V. So, yeah, *Folk Classical* I guess.

Oh, and the monochord zither (or gourd lute) doesn't seem to be played well.

Here's another player (*Phạm Đức Thành*) whose pitch seems far more accurate on the *Đàn Bầu*:


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## Nielsen4theWin (2 mo ago)

I had heard of Pham Duy before, by way of his arrangements and composition of folk music on albums like the following: 



. 

I'm not sure to what extent this overlaps with 'classical music' in the same way I'm not sure if modern ensembles' performances of Indian classical music, Persian classical music, or West African balafon music is 'classical music'. After all, each of these three traditions have plenty of new music being written and improvised in the past fifty years (failing the first test) which is often monophonic or otherwise less contrapuntal (which may lead some to claim it lacks greatness) and oftentimes is intentionally written to recapture a musical language which is hundreds of years old (in direct opposition to originality).

In particular, this music sounds very much like a lot of Chinese and North Korean choral music I've heard from the latter half of the 20th Century. It is a curious classification question: do these count as 'classical music'? If not, what are they? 

Not to diss on the new art music coming out of the Western nations (as it is in many cases very interesting!) but much of the tonal stand-on-its-own concert music being produced nowadays seem to come from outside the West. So perhaps the assumption that 'classical music old' is a preconception more limited to the West where the most popular concert music is from long-dead composers. Meanwhile, the fusion of Western and traditional local ideas happening elsewhere in the world in the past half-century seems to me to offer a new wrinkle for their classical traditions.

A long and winding diatribe with not much cohesion, but I think there are some interesting ideas raised in the prompt which are perhaps prodded at here.


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