# My problem with Bach Sonatas & Partitas for Violin



## JoachimBlas26 (Jun 7, 2021)

I just finished of listening to the whole Sonatas and Partitas for Violin, six of the most important works of all the violin repertoire, and masterpieces in his own right. It's the first time that I sat down to listen to them attentively. But when the recording ended i didn't feel moved by the music. Mentally i knew i was listening something incredible, but emotionally i stayed cold. And it's a shame because it's great music and i really want to enjoy and feel the emotion, the journey. This fenomeno doesn't happen with the passions, the Well Tempered Clavier, the Art of Fugue or most of Bach's works, so my problem is not with him.
Am I the only one this happens to or someone else too? If some of you has some tips to help me, recordings, or purely thoughts to share i'll be grateful.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I only know the first movement of the first sonata and the famous chaconne from the 2nd partita. When listening to milstein, grumiaux or menuhin, heifetz or most other people I’m not greatly moved. But when I listen to Perlman I am, so I suggest trying Perlman


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

I would suggest Tetzlaff or Zehetmair, the latest recording each.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I'd suggest above all not listening to the whole bunch or even one disc in one go. Pick one sonata or partita or even only the most famous piece, the chaconne d minor and listen several times.

But I think old time die hard fans often do not realize how much of an acquired taste solo violin music is, especially more than 5 minutes of it. Many people will never care for the sound despite loving orchestral or other mixed chamber music.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

I always liked many of the Segovia guitar arrangements a lot but there you get mainly movements.

Even Heifetz mainly movements because in those days movements were the style of the era.

Today you get more full suites and partita's.

I wish I had better advice on the best for full suites and partita's,Hilary Hahn might come to mind as far as Itzakh Perlman I think he is still more from the movement era.

Maxim Vengerov and Joshua Bell I don't know there Bach well mostly there concerto's.

I wish I had more time to to do more listening get to know more artists!

I have a friend who went to high school with New England conservatory Alumni and Boston Symphony 1st violinist Jason Horowitz.He came very close to a solo career but it didn't quite work so he went with the BSO but does chamber and solo work on his spare and has a record coming out soon.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

JoachimBlas26 said:


> But when the recording ended i didn't feel moved by the music. Mentally i knew i was listening something incredible, but emotionally i stayed cold.


You listened all the way through (2 hours + of music) and must have felt something. Perhaps it was not what you call emotion but what was it? The feeling that you were listening to something incredible sounds emotional to me and your opposite to an emotional response - a cold response - could surely still be emotional. Emotional flatness is rare and usually indicates pathology! I'm not sure that emotions and thoughts are opposites: can we have one without the other? There is a sort of dualism involved in using this language to describe our responses to music and I think we need a more sophisticated vocabulary to discuss our responses to music. 

Anyway, I enjoy Bach's solo violin music (but am not sure I would listen to 2 hours of it in one sitting), find it pure, intense and even intellectual. I suppose if I was given to colourful language I would say it brings me "closer to God". I suppose there is also the thrill of listening to virtuosity but the content of the music goes way beyond that for me. Anyway, these are emotional responses. But they are very different ones to what we might experience from most other music.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Kreisler jr said:


> I'd suggest above all not listening to the whole bunch or even one disc in one go. Pick one sonata or partita or even only the most famous piece, the chaconne d minor and listen several times.
> 
> But I think old time die hard fans often do not realize how much of an acquired taste solo violin music is, especially more than 5 minutes of it. Many people will never care for the sound despite loving orchestral or other mixed chamber music.


Yes indeed. And often a modern violin has a shrill and wiry sound, which may make listening intolerable. This also detracts from my pleasure when listening to string quartets. So I suggest a period performance of the Bach sonatas and partitas eg. Christine Busch, Lucy van Dael and Sigiswald Kuijken.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Philidor said:


> I would suggest Tetzlaff or Zehetmair, the latest recording each.


I heard Tetzlaff play all six in recital on a Sunday afternoon. Thrilling. He sees an arc linking them.


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## JoachimBlas26 (Jun 7, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> I'd suggest above all not listening to the whole bunch or even one disc in one go. Pick one sonata or partita or even only the most famous piece, the chaconne d minor and listen several times.
> 
> But I think old time die hard fans often do not realize how much of an acquired taste solo violin music is, especially more than 5 minutes of it. Many people will never care for the sound despite loving orchestral or other mixed chamber music.


Yes, true. Maybe i need to take it in small dosis instead of listening to all in once to digest it better.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

The first movement I liked out of Bach's solo violin music was this fugue:


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## OCEANE (10 mo ago)

JoachimBlas26 said:


> I just finished of listening to the whole Sonatas and Partitas for Violin, six of the most important works of all the violin repertoire, and masterpieces in his own right. It's the first time that I sat down to listen to them attentively. But when the recording ended i didn't feel moved by the music. Mentally i knew i was listening something incredible, but emotionally i stayed cold. And it's a shame because it's great music and i really want to enjoy and feel the emotion, the journey. This fenomeno doesn't happen with the passions, the Well Tempered Clavier, the Art of Fugue or most of Bach's works, so my problem is not with him.
> Am I the only one this happens to or someone else too? If some of you has some tips to help me, recordings, or purely thoughts to share i'll be grateful.


Thanks for sharing.
IMHO, the fact that you gained somethings from passions, WTC or other Bach's works does not necessarily mean you could gain the same/similar from other works. For instance, I love all Bach's music but not really enjoy his organ music (i tried and tried....), which is definite masterpieces. I have no problem with this 'unenjoyable' cos there are too many types of music for me to explore and feel.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

JoachimBlas26 said:


> Yes, true. Maybe i need to take it in small dosis instead of listening to all in once to digest it better.


I'm with Fritz Jr. on this: It's a collection of works not intended to be heard all at once. One at a time is plenty for me.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> I'm with Fritz Jr. on this: It's a collection of works not intended to be heard all at once. One at a time is plenty for me.


Ditto for the cello suites. I've been to two recitals of all six suites (Colin Carr and Alisa Weilerstein) and even this obsessive collector of Bach cello suite recordings found those recitals tough going by the end of the third suite.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

EdwardBast said:


> I'm with Fritz Jr. on this: It's a collection of works not intended to be heard all at once. One at a time is plenty for me.


JFTR my nickname is not from that fiddler Fritz K. but refers to E.T.A. Hoffmann's Kapellmeister Kreisler of "Kreisleriana" fame.  So if first name, rather (Jo)Han(ne)s than Fritz [many years ago I was an exchange student and the host family told me an another guy they were hosting that they had referred to us as "Hans and Fritz" from that ancient cartoon]

FWIW I think the cello suites are much easier on the ears, partly because of the timbre, partly because it's mostly a bit "lighter" music (like the E major partita) but I would also listen to one disc (3 suites) at most.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Emotional experience is, for me, just one metric, one parameter. Others are intellectual interest (how the music is crafted), appreciating the playing, the execution, the talent of the musician(s), historical significance of the music, etc. A piece of music doesn't have to do it all, as long as it something really really well.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

JoachimBlas26 said:


> I just finished of listening to the whole Sonatas and Partitas for Violin, six of the most important works of all the violin repertoire, and masterpieces in his own right. It's the first time that I sat down to listen to them attentively. But when the recording ended i didn't feel moved by the music. Mentally i knew i was listening something incredible, but emotionally i stayed cold. And it's a shame because it's great music and i really want to enjoy and feel the emotion, the journey. This fenomeno doesn't happen with the passions, the Well Tempered Clavier, the Art of Fugue or most of Bach's works, so my problem is not with him.
> Am I the only one this happens to or someone else too? If some of you has some tips to help me, recordings, or purely thoughts to share i'll be grateful.


I think for the violin sonatas and partitas, as well as the cello suites, it's especially important to find a performance that speaks to you. These days you have a large number and variety of choices. The cello suites first shot up the classical hit parade thanks largely to celebrated recordings made by Pablo Casals in 1936-39. Some still swear by those, others very much do not. In 1954, a young Polish violinist living in France whose solo career had been derailed by the second world war and its aftermath made a series of records for the Odeon label. These included one of the Bach sonatas and partitas that won a Grand Prix du Disque and made him a major star. Again, some still swear by Henryk Szeryng's performances, others have long since moved on. Happy listening.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

JeffD said:


> Emotional experience is, for me, just one metric, one parameter. Others are intellectual interest (how the music is crafted), appreciating the playing, the execution, the talent of the musician(s), historical significance of the music, etc. A piece of music doesn't have to do it all, as long as it something really really well.


i think this is a very smart comment to which i fully adhere; i would even add that in some instances i am very interested by the content/meaning of the music; this last parameter is more evident in contemporary music


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I don't think Bach intended his 6 Sonatas & Partitas to be heard all at once in a single sitting. If I did that, I think my mind would go numb after a while. In other words, I think it's best to listen to them in smaller doses, maybe one or two at a time.

Yes, it could be that a more 'romanticized' interpretation would move you more. I agree with Eva Baron that Perlman would offer that, & could be your answer.

May I ask who you listened to?, which violinist?

Personally, I've most liked Josef Suk, Uto Ughi, & Dmitry Sitkovetsky (on Orfeo), as well as Salvatore Accardo & Felix Ayo, when listening to performances played on modern strings & bows (in addition to Nathan Milstein on DG). These six violinists offer performances of considerable depth and musical insight,






Unfortunately, Ughi's digital RCA set isn't on You Tube, but here he is playing the Bach Chaconne in, I believe, a live concert,




















J.S. Bach: Sonata for Violin Solo No. 1 in G Minor, BWV 1001 - 1. Adagio

In addition, there's also an individual recording of the Sonata No. 3, BWV 1005 by Michael Rabin, along with a recording of the Sonata No. 1, BWV 1001 by David Oistrakh, who are two of my most favorite violinists (& I wish they'd recorded them all!!).

JS Bach Sonate Nr. 3, BWV 1005 / Michael Rabin (EMI 6 CD 1936-1972) 1991
Sonata for Violin Solo in G Minor, Bwv 1001: I. Adagio

However, there is one version that offers deeply emotional readings (without being overly 'romantic'), and that is a live 1989 Erato recording by the late Russian violinist Oleg Kagan, who was one of David Oistrakh's favorite pupils. Kagan was dying of leukemia when he made these final live recordings, and knew that he didn't have much more time. So he played these works as if he would never play them again, which pretty much turned out to be the truth. If that interests you, I'd suggest that you try to listen the first Erato release, if you can find it, because the later discount Apex reissue has poorer sound & Kagan's violin can occasionally sound uncharacteristically grating.

There is also a partial recording of an earlier live concert that Kagan gave, which was issued by Live Classics (a label that Kagan founded), which is wonderful, too, & has better sound.









Bach: Violin Sonatas and Partitas - Oleg Kagan | Release Info | AllMusic


Find release reviews and credits for Bach: Violin Sonatas and Partitas - Oleg Kagan on AllMusic




www.allmusic.com












Bach Violin Sonatas and Partitas


This is a real swan-song: Oleg Kagan...




www.gramophone.co.uk





Partita No. 1 in B Minor, BWV 1002: I. Allemande

(Here too is the later discount reissue that I wasn't crazy about sound-wise: Violin Sonata No.1 in G minor BWV1001 : I Adagio)

Speaking of which, I would point out that acquiring a recording that has first rate sound quality in these works is particularly important. As CDs have never offered the warmth of string tone that LPs gave us, and I've found that many of my CD recordings of these works are more difficult or less enjoyable to listen to on that account, than others (such as Arthur Grumiaux's set, for instance, whose playing I normally enjoy. Though maybe I didn't buy the best remaster). So, you might want to check out some of the most recent, well reviewed recordings, such as Christian Tetzlaff's third recording of these works on Ondine. (Though I don't think Tetzlaff's more HIP approach will prove emotionally engaging enough for you. But they're very good.) However, fortunately, I do like the sound engineering that Ughi was given by RCA, and that Suk was given on EMI Double fforte, and Sitkovetsky by Orfeo (though I've not heard Sitkovetsky's 2nd recording on Hanssler, which some people prefer, performance-wise).

Violin Sonata No. 1 in G Minor, BWV 1001: I. Adagio

Lastly, among those versions played on modern strings & well recorded, there's also Glenn Gould's favorite violinist, Jean-Jacques Kantorow, who Gould used to rave about. Kantorow recorded his 6 Sonatas & Partitas for the Japanese Denon label, & I enjoy these recordings very much, too.

J. S. Bach - 3 SONATAS & PARTITAS FOR VIOLIN SOLO - Jean-Jacques Kantorow

But I would also strongly recommend that you sample some of the period recordings, as well, since they may work out better for you. My current favorite period instrument recordings are by Elfa Run Kristinsdottir (though frustratingly she hasn't recorded all of them yet), Stanley Ritchie, François Fernandez, and Gottfried von der Goltz.

Despite that Ritchie was getting on in years when he made his recordings, his interpretations have considerable depth, and represent a lifetime of playing and teaching this music. Ritchie also uses the type of violin that Bach owned in his collection--a 1669 or 1670 Jacob Steiner. Which is most likely the instrument that Bach composed this music on & possibly for. To my ears, there is something fascinating about the sound capabilities of Ritchie's Stainer violin in these works. But you have to hear it for yourself (see my link below). Sigiswald Kuijken is likewise excellent in this music, as is Amandine Beyer.

Violin Partita No. 3 in E major, BWV 1006: I. Preludio
Elfa Rún Kristinsdóttir - J.S. Bach - Partita no. 2 in D minor

Bach, prelude partita n.3 in E Major BWV 1006, François Fernandez/baroque violin

Bach: Sonatas & Partitas | Gottfried von der Goltz, violin

Violin Sonata No. 1 in G Minor, BWV 1001: I. Adagio

Or, you could wait for period violinist Pablo Valetti to record them; which he will undoubtedly do at some point. I've treasure Valetti's Alpha recording of Bach's 6 Sonatas for violin & harpsichord, where he is accompanied by harpsichordist Celine Frisch. His playing on these performances is rich with emotion and human feeling, and very engaging in all the right ways. So, I'd imagine that his 6 Sonatas & Partitas could be wonderful, too, if he were to take on the challenge.

Bach - Sonatas for Violin & Harpsichord + Presentation (reference record. : Céline Frisch / Valetti)

Other than these favorite violinists of mine, Giuliano Carmignola has likewise received good reviews, but I've not heard his set. However, I do like his Vivaldi playing very much, & especially on the Divox label.

Hope that helps.


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