# What composers earned



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Someone has taken the trouble to work out just what composers would have earned in real terms today. Found this interesting - I cannot vouch for its accuracy, of course.

https://www.adzuna.co.uk/blog/2016/05/27/do-you-make-more-money-than-mozart/


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm a little confused if those "worth today" figures represent annual income or income from the one composition mentioned. Either way Beethoven and Mozart seemed to have done okay except for being short lived.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's an interesting page with what Beethoven was paid for specific compositions, translated into US dollars in 2009. For instance, he is thought to have received the equivalent of $100,000 for the Missa Solemnis, about a third from the publisher and two-thirds from sales of "subscriptions." No wonder he continued to sell subscriptions to his late quartets!

http://lvbandmore.blogspot.com/2010/08/813-how-much-was-beethoven-paid.html


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm a bit skeptical of these translations into today's dollars. It's not like there's just one unchanging inflation rate from then to now. The products and services of the 1800s were so different from today.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> I'm a bit skeptical of these translations into today's dollars. It's not like there's just one unchanging inflation rate from then to now. The products and services of the 1800s were so different from today.


There's a long discussion from the Beethovenhaus Bonn of Beethoven's financial affairs, including an account of the drastic changes in the worth of currencies during his lifetime. The discussion concludes:

"The composer led a rather frugal life and spent only minor sums on luxury articles, died as a rich man. Just 5% of the Vienna citizens left a similar or higher fortune, 77% left only a tenth or less. Based on the conversion factors calculated by Roman Sandgruber and under reserve, Beethoven's inheritance can be estimated at around 145,000 Euro. To compare: Bandmaster Antonio Salieri left three times as much, Joseph Haydn, bandmaster and "private composer" for Prince Esterhazy twice as much."

http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms/detail.php/31561


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> There's a long discussion from the Beethovenhaus Bonn of Beethoven's financial affairs, including an account of the drastic changes in the worth of currencies during his lifetime. The discussion concludes:
> 
> "The composer led a rather frugal life and spent only minor sums on luxury articles, died as a rich man. Just 5% of the Vienna citizens left a similar or higher fortune, 77% left only a tenth or less. Based on the conversion factors calculated by Roman Sandgruber and under reserve, Beethoven's inheritance can be estimated at around 145,000 Euro. To compare: Bandmaster Antonio Salieri left three times as much, Joseph Haydn, bandmaster and "private composer" for Prince Esterhazy twice as much."
> 
> http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms/detail.php/31561


That certainly helps with context ("Just 5% of the Vienna citizens left a similar or higher fortune"). But saying things like "so-and-so would have made $75K in today's money" is problematic, as discussed here:

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/Summer02/money2.cfm


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

KenOC said:


> There's a long discussion from the Beethovenhaus Bonn of Beethoven's financial affairs, including an account of the drastic changes in the worth of currencies during his lifetime. The discussion concludes:
> 
> "The composer led a rather frugal life and spent only minor sums on luxury articles, died as a rich man. Just 5% of the Vienna citizens left a similar or higher fortune, 77% left only a tenth or less. Based on the conversion factors calculated by Roman Sandgruber and under reserve, Beethoven's inheritance can be estimated at around 145,000 Euro. To compare: Bandmaster Antonio Salieri left three times as much, Joseph Haydn, bandmaster and "private composer" for Prince Esterhazy twice as much."
> 
> http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms/detail.php/31561


So Beethoven was in the top 5% but his 145k Euro estate probably wouldn't buy a house in Vienna. This doesn't make sense. Clarification is needed.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm skeptical that Haydn and Vivaldi and the others were making what would now be poverty level income in any major city. Something's off.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Dang, Scott Joplin's most popular work made 500,000 and he only got 600 of it? That's what I call getting screwed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Wood said:


> So Beethoven was in the top 5% but his 145k Euro estate probably wouldn't buy a house in Vienna. This doesn't make sense. Clarification is needed.


Beethoven lived a comfortable middle-class life -- in a shabby apartment with no running water or sanitation, no electronic gadgets, no car, etc. etc. Except for a short time before 1800 when he was feeling flush, he never even owned a horse. A good piano cost $4-5,000 because it was, really, a crummy piano. He never owned a house, only rented.

My point is that people were generally poorer in those days, in every material way, and lived on far less because they had far less. It didn't take much (the way we think about things) to live better than most others.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> I'm skeptical that Haydn and Vivaldi and the others were making what would now be poverty level income in any major city. Something's off.


Think of the fact that Haydn and Vivaldi had no electricity, no central heating no bathroom or water closet. 
They really were poor in today's standards.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Might also mention that the Vienna of Beethoven's day was a far different place. With a population only 15% of today's, it would be considered a small to medium sized city, somewhat smaller than Lincoln, Nebraska. As for Beethoven's wealth at this death, it certainly wouldn't buy a house in today's Vienna or any place comparable. A house in historical Vienna would be illegal to sell or live in today and probably wouldn't even be considered inhabitable by most.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

They had much lower dental bills. I mean, think of all what all those braces for JS Bach's children in our times!


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

If you want, I can come up with some other interesting financial information concerning the Russian composers. It would take some hours, but I know where to find some information. Depending on their patronage situation, a composer could make 1000-3000 rubles a year. Competitions would range up to 1000-ruble prizes (for best String Quartet or Symphony of the year), and short opuses would range from 100-400 rubles if bought by publishers. Concert performances were hardly for profit, more likely a loss. But that's where patrons come in and cover those costs.

I'll probably post some quotes or whatever later.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

violadude said:


> Dang, Scott Joplin's most popular work made 500,000 and he only got 600 of it? That's what I call getting screwed.


Be glad copyright laws are better now. Of course, saying anything positive about copyright on the internet is likely to bring on all kinds of flaming and negative attention.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

violadude said:


> Dang, Scott Joplin's most popular work made 500,000 and he only got 600 of it? That's what I call getting screwed.


Screwed without protection


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Dang, Scott Joplin's most popular work made 500,000 and he only got 600 of it? That's what I call getting screwed.


That's probably more than he would have made by streaming it. But as Pugg suggests, he had more serious problems.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Pugg said:


> Screwed without protection


Ironic, given the ultimate cause of Joplin's death.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Maybe with 500,000 dollars he could have gotten better medical treatment.

I haven't studied what medicine was around at the time, so I don't know what the **** I'm talking about.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

violadude said:


> Dang, Scott Joplin's most popular work made 500,000 and he only got 600 of it? That's what I call getting screwed.


That's a fortune!  Rachmaninoff got 20 rubles for the Prelude in C# minor, one of the most popular works of the 20thc. And then he had to play it as an encore several thousand times.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bruch's ever-popular 1st Violin Concerto was completed in 1867. Since he had no faith it would gain popularity, Bruch sold it to the publisher Simrock for a small lump sum payment. Oops.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

WAM also would've sold his songs to Michael Jackson.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> If you want, I can come up with some other interesting financial information concerning the Russian composers. It would take some hours, but I know where to find some information. Depending on their patronage situation, a composer could make 1000-3000 rubles a year. Competitions would range up to 1000-ruble prizes (for best String Quartet or Symphony of the year), and short opuses would range from 100-400 rubles if bought by publishers. Concert performances were hardly for profit, more likely a loss. But that's where patrons come in and cover those costs.
> 
> I'll probably post some quotes or whatever later.


I'm definitely interested. Many Russian composers were in some ways unlucky in the amount of money they earned, whether as composers, pedagogues, or musicians (Tchaikovsky and Kalinnikov spring readily to mind). Please share that with us.
Thank you.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Orfeo said:


> I'm definitely interested. Many Russian composers were in some ways unlucky in the amount of money they earned, whether as composers, pedagogues, or musicians (Tchaikovsky and Kalinnikov spring readily to mind). Please share that with us.
> Thank you.


Some information about awards:









Straight from wikipedia (sorry lol):



> An important event for Belyayev's future and his important role as leader in Russian music life was his meeting in 1882 with the highly talented, scarcely 17-year-old Alexander Glazunov, whose 1st Symphony was premiered at that time. Belyayev's increasing commitment to the promotion of Russian composers led to a gradual retreat from his activity as a wood dealer. In 1884 he became founder of the "Glinka prize", which was awarded annually. In the first years the winners included Borodin, Mily Balakirev, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, César Cui and Lyadov.
> 
> In 1885 Belyayev created the publishing house "M. P. Belaieff" in Leipzig to secure international copyright to Russian composers; until then, international copyright did not extend to music published in Russia. Eventually, he published over 2000 compositions by Russian composers, the first of which was Glazunov's Overture on Greek Themes. The works published there were edited to a high standard, while the authors received higher fees than was usual and kept full control over performance rights. Thus Belyayev made important contributions to the promotion and spreading of Russian music. At first Belyayev selected the works to be produced; later he conferred with a jury, which consisted of Rimsky-Korsakov, Lyadov and Glazunov. Composers from not only St. Petersburg were accepted to the publishing house program, but also rather "western"-oriented Muscovite composers such as Sergei Taneyev and Alexander Scriabin. After the October Revolution the firm continued operations from Leipzig until World War II, when it moved to Bonn. It later relocated to Frankfurt am Main, where in 1971 C. F. Peters took over its management.


I was looking and looking for anything more specific... some random notes I found:

- Rachmaninoff was paid 200 rubles to make a piano transcription of Glazunov's 6th Symphony, so I can imagine that was average for transcriptions.
- Borodin got 3000 rubles from Belyayev for _Prince Igor _before it was even completed (an incentive). 
- Before Belyayev, the Mighty Handful got money either by getting individual stipends from patrons, or even the czar, in order to complete compositions. Mussorgsky got 100 rubles a month from a patron while he worked on _Kovanshchina_. It was quite difficult for them in those days though, Belyayev changed _everything_.
- During the Russian Symphony Concert years, every composer was asked to pay the hired symphony 100 rubles for the performance of one large work each, a suite or symphony. Sometimes it would be reduced for smaller works. The composers did this regularly themselves instead of Belyayev because he was already giving them so much money for publication rights.
- Supposedly after Belyayev died, he left about a _million _rubles in the hands of Rimsky-Korsakov, Liadov, and Glazunov to continue those Glinka Awards he was already doing, and probably publication rights too.... you know when I _joke _about the Russian composers being gangsters and controlling a lot of money? Yeah... :lol:

I don't know how to compare these numbers to today's money, and these were all different times in Russian history too, so I'm sure there was inflation already. But I can imagine... 100 rubles during the Belyayev years was probably around $1000 today, so 1000 rubles would have been a 10K prize. That's just my guess.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

After his fall from favor in 1936 over the opera Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District, Shostakovich's political rehabilitation was evidently complete when his 1940 piano quintet was written. In 1941 the work earned Shostakovich a Stalin Prize, accompanied by a financial reward of 100,000 rubles (about 17,000 US dollars at that time), making it probably the most highly compensated chamber work ever written. Shostakovich donated the financial award to the poor citizens of Moscow.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Joseph Haydn was the second highest paid employee of Esterhazy's empire at one stage. A historical fact.


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