# Frank Zappa



## Argus

I got into Zappa and a few years ago and bought _Hot Rats _and _Roxy and Elsewhere _and really dug them. After not listening to him for a while and getting deeper into jazz and classical I thought my tastes might have changed and I wouldn't be able to get back into his stuff. I was surprised then that Hot Rats sounds just as good now as when I first listened to it. I like more of his instrumental or serious work as opposed to his funny/novelty records like 'Bobby Brown goes down' but overall, it's good he was eclectic and most supremely prolific. What do people think of his classical side? I've read his biography and know he was really influenced by Varese, but is it apparent in his work.

Not only was he a good composer but I think he was a great guitarist. People always say he could only improvise over a couple of chord changes or he wrote parts too difficult for him to play live but he had a really unique voice in his solos and wasn't afraid to take chances and sound bad occasionally. Any musician who's played any of his songs will know how hard they are with constant time changes and fast unison runs between instruments.

So is anyone else on here fans of the Zappa? What records of his should I get next?

I am thinking of maybe the _Grand Wazoo _or _Apostrophe _or maybe one of the compilation CD's like _You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore_. His _Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar_ box set looks good but I can't find it anywhere. Also' why are most of his CD's so expensive. I'd buy more, but if every CD is over £10 it seems like a rip off. Same with Brian Eno.


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## Mark Harwood

Apostrophe' is entertaining, and I think it's available c/w the terrific Overnite Sensation. 
If you desire a challenge, try to get your head round Jazz From Hell.
As for Eno, I downloaded the Neroli album for the price of one track from Amazon.


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## Iveforgottenmyoldpassword

ive never really gotten into zappa, but when i do listen to his stuff i dig it.


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## Weston

I didn't even know this thread was here.

Argus - check out his earlier stuff too. _Uncle Meat_ is a double album (when it was vinyl) and contained an earlier slower version of "Son of Mr. Green Genes" that features beautiful, if quirky, vocals. It's really hard to find though.

My favorite Zappa album is_ One Size fits All_. It's loaded with a lot of the silliness you expect from Zappa - but in all seriousness it;s one of the best progressive rock albums I've ever heard. (He would probably have hated me calling it that.) There are two versions of a piece called "Sofa" that features one of the more lyrical melodies anyone has ever written. "Sofa No.2" is the same melody with comic German vocals done in unbelievably epic harmonies. The rest of the album is chock full of impossible rhythms and amazing musical acrobatics.

I do not recommend _Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar_. It is guitar solos only. To me they don't work as well out of context. For the completist only.


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## Argus

Well I finally found some Zappa on offer, so I picked up these:



















I've been listening to them for about a week now and can say that I like them both.

I bought _Weasels Ripped My Flesh _ based purely on the album cover and some of the track names. _The Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue, Prelude to The Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask _and _Dwarf Nebula Processional March_ are just great titles. The music is just as weird and eclectic as the names. I'd only heard _My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama_ so it was a bit of a gamble, but it was a good one. I particularly like _The Orange County Lumber Truck_ and the title track.

_One Size Fits All _ sounds more like _Roxy and Elsewhere_ but more cohesive. _Inca Roads, Po-Jama People, San Berdino _and _Andy_ are my favourite songs at the minute, but the whole album works well. Lots of nice guitar work and funky instrumental passages to contrast the crazy vocals. I like _Sofa No.1_ can't see the point of _Sofa No.2_ though, except as a joke to finish the album.

I think I still prefer _Hot Rats_ to the two as I'm not a fan of zany lyrics and vocals but they definetely have enough good stuff in them to warrant repeat listenings in the future.

Also, I would've liked to have bought _Uncle Meat_ but it wasn't in stock anywhere.



> I do not recommend Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar. It is guitar solos only. To me they don't work as well out of context. For the completist only.


True for most listeners but as guitarist I'll probably enjoy three CD's of fretwankery more than the average Zappa fan. But at £25 it's a bit steep for me anyway.


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## qualityaudio

Dweezil Zappa has been trotting around the globe performing his dad's stuff for a few years now giving us all a chance to hear this incredible muzic live. I caught one of the shows at the Roxy in LA on the anniversary of FZ's legendary concerts there. It was pretty amazing being in such an intimate venue with a virtuoso performance lasting nearly three hours! DZ has put together an excellent group and IMO is an even _better_ guitarist than FZ, believe it or not. (I heard once that FZ had mandated that DZ be the only one to play lead on a few of his songs. Can't confirm that however.) Check out the DVD of "Zappa Plays Zappa" and click here for the current tour schedule.

Some of my favorite compositions by FZ are on the ZPZ release including Inca Roads, Florentine Pogen, Black Napkins, The Torture Never Stops, Echidna''s Arf (of You), and of course, Peaches en Regalia.


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## jhar26

His best album (of those I've heard anyway) is "Hot Rats."










The others I've heard are quite uneven in quality as far as I'm concerned. My number two would be "Uncle Meat" which besides the usual nonsense (just my opinion) has a lot of stuff on it that I like.










I also like "Zappa in New York", but I could easily live without "Freak Out" or "We're Only in it For the Money", even though those two are considered classics by most Zappa fans. So, I love Zappa at his best, but he seldom is at his best for an entire album. He is on "Hot Rats" though.


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## starthrower

Here's a wonderful posthumous release. Recored live in Boston 1972.
Features a 20 piece ensemble of woodwinds, brass, and percussion.
All instrumental, for you serious listeners. A very classy package too!










Thumbs up for Uncle Meat, and Weasels. Orchestral Favorites is another great
instrumental album for contemporary music fans.

I don't agree with the comments on Shut Up N Play Yer Guitar. IMO, it's absolutely
brilliant! A must have for rock guitar improv junkies. Spontaneous musical architecture
at its best!


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## Lunasong

About a month ago I was working the phones at our classical radio station's pledge drive when a caller made the comment that we "play too much opera; play some Zappa!" At the time I thought he was being facetious, but after some research and after hearing about clavichorder's recent concert attendance program at SSO, I now know that Zappa was quite an eclectic composer.


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## Weston

Lunasong said:


> I now know that Zappa was quite an eclectic composer.


. . . to put it mildly. Don't try this at home, folks.

Or even this.


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## chalkpie

"Put a Motor in Yourself" by FZ, performed by The Ensemble Modern


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## starthrower

Lunasong said:


> About a month ago I was working the phones at our classical radio station's pledge drive when a caller made the comment that we "play too much opera; play some Zappa!" At the time I thought he was being facetious, but after some research and after hearing about clavichorder's recent concert attendance program at SSO, I now know that Zappa was quite an eclectic composer.


I've never heard any Zappa played on a classical station. I hosted a radio show for several years at a university jazz station where I featured quite a few Zappa instrumentals. I never got any complaints, just some positive phone calls. Listeners also loved Ed Palermo's big band Zappa albums.


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## Tero

This is the longest Zappa thread here?

200 Motels was interesting, as it is where Zapap first had the use of a full orchestra. The entire film is here. See eg 39 minutes or 1:26 ...sound is really bad.





Zappa did not improve much with the later orchestras. He had a pretty good collection with:
http://www.amazon.com/Boulez-Conducts-Zappa-Perfect-Stranger/dp/B0000009T9/ref=pd_sim_m_8

not sure where you can hear samples of that.

I have all the rock stuff too. Saw Zappa just once, mid 70s.


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## Iforgotmypassword

somerandomdude said:


> ive never really gotten into zappa, but when i do listen to his stuff i dig it.


Wow, my grammar was terrible two years ago.

It's ridiculous how much you can grow up in such a short period of time.

Anyways... I've always found Zappa's music to be too overtly goofy to take seriously, and I must take music seriously in order to really enjoy it.


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## Philip

Iforgotmypassword said:


> Anyways...


Anyway* ...


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## elgar's ghost

I love Joe's Garage - with an imaginative and understanding director I think it would make an interesting and feasible stage project or even a film.


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## Tero

Joe's Garage has its moments. And of course watermelon.


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## cwarchc

I've got Uncle Meat on cd and Shut up and play your guitar on vinyl
If you can find them, at a reasonable cost, I would recommend them both
Frank is an acquired taste, you have to look past the silliness (fun as it it is) and see the musician


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## starthrower

^^^^^^^^^
Those are two of my favorites! Uncle Meat is a very diverse and interesting listen. Shut Up... may be too much guitar for the average listener, but for me it's the Holy Grail. I love to listen to Zappa improvise on the electric guitar. His phrasing is unique, and he has great melodic ideas.

Clapton, Page, and Jeff Beck are elevated to legendary status, but Frank Zappa played just as much great stuff as anybody.


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## Tero

The album versions are much slower, I like several live versions. I used to have a prpgram to go from DVD to mp3.


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## millionrainbows

Excellent Zappa solo; I think that was from Zappa in New York. There is a fantastic version of "Filthy Habits (Bilbao, Spain, 1988)" on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" volume 4.


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## starthrower

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Awesome mini-moog solo by Peter Wolf on that collection. I like the doo-*** medley too! There's an entire 1988 concert from Barcelona up on YouTube. Good quality sound and video too! You get to hear some pieces in full context, as opposed to the way FZ edited things together for the live albums.


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## BurningDesire

I introduced my composition teacher to the music of Frank Zappa, and he really liked it  Jazz from Hell reminded him of an even jazzier version of Babbitt, and he was so surprised when I told him The Black Page was only 2 percussionists, mostly 1 with another providing auxiliary parts.

Frank Zappa is the reason I became a composer. I don't think of his different styles separately either, he took all of his writing seriously. Frank began writing orchestral and chamber music in his teens, and didn't write a rock song until his 20s, and he basically used his band to play the music he had written or was writing, because most orchestras thought it was too weird (or weren't good enough to play it). I think of his band as more of an electric chamber ensemble than a rock band. Zappa is a classical composer first and foremost, if anything, he crossed into rock music from the classical realm.


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## Guest

_Uncle Meat_, _Burnt Weeny Sandwich_ and _We're Only in it for the Money_ are my three favourites, though I also have _Tinseltown Rebellion._ I liked the episodic nature of some of the writing; the alternately crazy, rude, challenging lyrics; the cut and paste montages; the use of percussion and treated vocals...

Once he became serious and wrote 'proper' music with too much guitar, I must say I lost interest. I've turned prude too, and his endless satire on attitudes to sex became tiresome. Having said that, I recently recorded a concert off the TV - _The Torture Never Sleep_ - and was very impressed at the musicianship again.

He's not constantly on my 'turntable', but I'll not be getting rid of my CDs any time soon.


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## BurningDesire

First, there's no such thing as "too much guitar" :3

Secondly, he was serious from the beginning. The reason he wound up breaking up the original Mothers is that they were mostly untrained musicians and honestly weren't good enough to play his more complex music well. Zappa was writing extremely complex serial music in his teen years, while at the same time playing in RnB bands, and by his 20s he was fed-up that no orchestras would read his material, and he always loved RnB music, so he opted for a third road, between those two worlds of modernist composition and rock music. He treated his ensembles like a modern music ensemble, whether they were playing a doo-*** tune or some extremely complex piece. He was meticulous in his scoring: when you hear one of his rock tunes, all those drum notes you hear? Those were written by Frank, he didn't just give them a generic chart like most writers for drum kit do. When you hear his really wacky stuff, sure its funny, and meant to be funny, but its also really serious.


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## starthrower

The Torture Never Stops is the name of the DVD you saw on TV, only because you live over seas. American TV would never air that these days, although MTV aired the concert originally in 1981.


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## Guest

starthrower said:


> you live over seas.


No...you do!


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## man

I reccomend Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, The Yellow Shark, Civilization Phaze III and Läther. Yellow Shark and Phaze III to the classical listeners.


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## Itullian

*Early Zappa on the Steve Allen Show..................*


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## starthrower

^^^
Smart move by the young Zappa. He always seized any opportunities to advance his career.
He didn't need to sell insurance like Charles Ives.


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## starthrower

Very interesting conversation here. The interviewer sticks
to modern musical topics, and FZ obliges. Zappa discusses
The Soldier's Tale, and his 20 piece ensemble of the time.
The recording finally saw the light a few years back. It's
a 2 disc live set recorded in Boston. Zappa/Wazoo.


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## aajj

Many years ago i attended a concert of Edgard Varese's music, performed by an ensemble called Orchestra of Our Time. Zappa did not perform but he served as the host and possibly helped organize the concert. This was at the Palladium in New York and many in the audience were clearly in attendance for Zappa's presence, not Varese's music. Zappa seemed at a loss of how to handle his fans and i remember him saying, "This concert is for those of you who are here for the music" or words to that effect. Nevertheless, he interrupted his own speech to sign autographs, seemingly out of obligation to his fans, but embarrassed to be detracting from the main attraction. After the concert, Zappa hung around the stage, signing more autographs and continuing to appear uncomfortable. My brother handed him a note saying he wish he had spoken more about the music and Zappa shrugged and said he did his best. The performance itself was excellent. I don't think they performed Ameriques, but they definitely did Ionisation and Intergrales.


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## aajj

My favorite Zappa/Mothers album - _Absolutely Free_









Also love _Lumpy Gravy_, particularly the first half.


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## Morimur

*The Mother Of All Interviews - 1992 by Don Menn and Matt Groening*

Perhaps you Zappa freaks have already gobbled this up, but here it is just in case:
http://www.angelfire.com/in/eimaj/interviews/frank.zappa.html

An excerpt:


> Zappa: I've only heard four or five pieces by Schoenberg that I can enjoy listening to. There's the Septet, and then there's the suite of pieces for orchestra, the one that has "Summer Morning by the Lake" as one of the movements. I think that's really nice. And Begleitungsmusik: is a parody of motion picture music. I like that. But there's very little else by Schoenberg that I appreciate. And Berg - I like the "Lyric Suite," I like the - there's a piano solo piece, I think it's called Piano Sonata - it's an early piece. I like that. But, I tried to listen to Lulu. I couldn't do it. I had the album of Wozzeck. I could not get through it. I like Messiaen. Took me a while, but I like that music. He's colorful. But I must admit that the first Messiaen album that I ever got was an Angel recording of Chronochromie, and it baffled the snot out of me. I didn't know what to do with it. I could stay interested for about the first three minutes. I was going, "Whoa, a lot of percussion; that's interesting, but what is this?" It took me years before I could listen to that whole side of the album straight through. -Frank Zappa on Schoenberg and Messiaen


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## SixFootScowl

I always got a kick out of this bit of poetry:


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## starthrower

Morimur said:


> Perhaps you Zappa freaks have already gobbled this up, but here it is just in case:
> http://www.angelfire.com/in/eimaj/interviews/frank.zappa.html
> 
> An excerpt:


I have this interview in an old magazine. It's very interesting. I haven't made it all the way through Lulu either. And I prefer listening to Zappa's melodic writing for percussion, as opposed to Messiaen's abstractions.


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## norman bates

starthrower said:


> ^^^
> Smart move by the young Zappa. He always seized any opportunities to advance his career.
> He didn't need to sell insurance like Charles Ives.


I guess he was influenced by John Cage for that performance.

"On John Cage: Once upon a time, when I was an impressionable young composer, somebody gave me a John Cage record and I listened to it, and went 'What the **** is this?' But since I didn't know what the **** anything was, I thought 'Maybe this is really good.' A short time after that, John Cage came to Claremont College and he was giving one of his ... he does these performances with a throat microphone. He'd put this thing on his throat and drink a quart of carrot juice, or read something to you while he was drinking the carrot juice. In a way, this ties in with my over-all feeling towards colleges. In this instance, there was a college audience watching John Cage drink the carrot juice and do these things, and they were pondering it like it had this large significance. It occurred to me that if he could do that, then certainly, SURELY there were other things equally ridiculous that a person such as myself could do in the music business. And so I decided that I would try, not necessarily to gargle with the carrot juice, but that I'd do other things that come awfully close."

By the way, in the fifties John Cage needed money and in italy and he partecipated in the tv show "lascia o raddoppia" as a mushroom expert and he played a bathtub








after the show Bongiorno remarked "Ah, lei va via e la sua musica resta qui, ma era meglio il contrario: che la sua musica andasse via e lei restasse qui". (you are going away and your music will remain, but it would have been better the opposite, that your music would leave and that you would remain)


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## starthrower

Interesting early interview.


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## Albert7

I really need to hear this album badly:


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## starthrower

"Buy everything you can by Igor Stravinsky and dance to it." - Frank Zappa 1966


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## Barbebleu

Get You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vols 1 to 6 and you have a fantastic overview of Frank's considerable talent. Then buy Make A Jazz Noise Here, then The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life. 
Then buy everything else!!


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## elgar's ghost

At long last I got around to listening to the first three Mothers albums for the first time - a mere 36 years since buying my first Zappa record. I can't understand or indeed justify why I've allowed all of the pre-Hot Rats stuff go under the radar for so long. I've enjoyed them a lot and the occasional use of the kazoo(?) on the first album kills me every time. :lol:


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## Crudblud

Getting to grips with the latest release, _Dance Me This_, a Synclavier projected completed around the same time as _Civilization Phaze III_ that has sat gathering dust in the vaults for nearly twenty-two years now. It's really good, but there are a few extremely dense pieces like _Wolf Harbor_, which dominates the album at almost thirty minutes duration, and _Piano_, both of which really threw me for a loop the first time through.


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## 38157

My copy of that album's shipped, but not arrived yet. Excited to finally hear it, it seems that slowly but surely, the ZFT are releasing the most anticipated gems (few years ago it was Beefheart's _Bat Chain Puller_, then they made a bit of progress on the Roxy front with _Roxy By Proxy_ - maybe next it'll be the Roxy video or _The Rage and the Fury_).


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## starthrower

Somebody already uploaded the entire Dance Me This album on YouTube. I listened to about 20 minutes of it. It starts off beautifully with some joyful, upbeat music featuring sampled vocals and an extremely brief guitar solo. I wasn't as enthusiastic about Wolf Harbor. 

Anyway, in my opinion, the Zappa's waited entirely too long to release this recording. It just doesn't have the same impact as hearing Jazz From Hell 28 years ago. YMMV.


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## AnotherSpin

My favorite Zappa's albums are those which I remember from LP times: Apostrophe, Over-Nite Sensation, One Size Fits All, Roxy and Elsewhere, Bongo Fury, Zoot Allures, Zappa in New-York, Joe's Garage...


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## Crudblud

starthrower said:


> Somebody already uploaded the entire Dance Me This album on YouTube. I listened to about 20 minutes of it. It starts off beautifully with some joyful, upbeat music featuring sampled vocals and an extremely brief guitar solo. I wasn't as enthusiastic about Wolf Harbor.
> 
> Anyway, in my opinion, the Zappa's waited entirely too long to release this recording. It just doesn't have the same impact as hearing Jazz From Hell 28 years ago. YMMV.


Yeah, it doesn't make any sense that it wasn't released around the same time as _Civilization Phaze III_, as far as I'm aware it was 100% complete at the time of Zappa's death. It's just silliness on Gail's part to hang onto it until she could release it as the 100th album, as if that matters. I thought we'd left the curse of the 9th behind us, but it seems as though it has just expanded into other permutations.

As for the album itself, _Wolf Harbor_ was pretty intimidating at first and I thought it was merely okay, as with the rest of the album. Part of the problem with a first time listen is that the tracks are all contiguous, there are no gaps, so it's 50 minutes of non-stop Synclavier, which can be an endurance test for the ear on the first go round. I've listened to it a few more times today, and my opinion has completely changed, not only is _Wolf Harbor_ a _masterpiece_ (yes, I used the dreaded m-word) but the album itself is well worth considering as one of Zappa's finest. It's just a shame the sanctimonious claptrap that proliferates from official quarters has held it back from the public for so long.


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## elgar's ghost

Has anyone got advice on the Läther set? I was wondering if it holds together as an album well and is about as faithful to Zappa's original concept as it's likely to be or whether the four original albums which made up the bulk of it (Zappa In New York/Studio Tan/Sleep Dirt/Orchestral Favourites) are better as separate entities while bearing in mind that Zappa didn't sanction the release of the last three at the time due to a dispute with Warner Bros?

Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## 38157

elgars ghost said:


> Has anyone got advice on the Läther set? I was wondering if it holds together as an album well and is about as faithful to Zappa's original concept as it's likely to be or whether the four original albums which made up the bulk of it (Zappa In New York/Studio Tan/Sleep Dirt/Orchestral Favourites) are better as separate entities while bearing in mind that Zappa didn't sanction the release of the last three at the time due to a dispute with Warner Bros?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any replies.


Lather is worth getting, some of the versions on that set are vastly different from the individual records, and there are tracks that aren't on any of the individual albums. From what I recall, only "Black Page No. 1" is on Lather, whereas on ZINY, you get Manx Needs Women-Black Page Drum Solo-Black Page No. 1, however the songs from Sleep Dirt (e.g. "Spider of Destiny") are instrumental on Lather, and in my opinion, they're better off this way.
I bought the both the set and individual albums, and in my opinion, they are both rewarding. But then I'm quite a big enthusiast, so maybe I would think that.

I would certainly consider getting Studio Tan and ZINY, as the running order in Studio Tan is more pleasing, and there's stuff on ZINY that's not on Lather.


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## starthrower

I would skip Lather and get the individual CDs. First of all, the current edition of Lather has a couple less tracks than the older, out of print edition. And the beautiful instrumental Flambay is in truncated form on Lather. It's much more satisfying on the 2012 edition of Sleep Dirt, which has been restored to its original all instrumental format. And the beautiful acoustic guitar title track is not on Lather. 

The only advantage to Lather is that you get to hear FZ as "bogus temporary disc jockey" when he played the whole album on the radio back in '77. And if you're going to buy a copy, get the out of print edition with the cow on the cover. It has the full Lather guitar solo. The only complete album on Lather is Studio Tan. And as mentioned the track order is different, and Greggery Peccary isn't even on the same CD as the other tracks.


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## SixFootScowl

I had a Zappa album in the 1970s where one whole side was a story called Billy the Mountain. I remember it being a hilarious story, though now I only remember bits and pieces. Have no recollection what might have been on the other side. Or maybe the story was both sides.


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## starthrower

Florestan said:


> I had a Zappa album in the 1970s where one whole side was a story called Billy the Mountain. I remember it being a hilarious story, though now I only remember bits and pieces. Have no recollection what might have been on the other side. Or maybe the story was both sides.


Just Another Band From LA


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Albert7 said:


> I really need to hear this album badly:


Best to get it on vinyl which I have (US copy) but I'm trying to track down an Aussie copy which has a reversed sleeve cover, with the Sgt. Pepper's parody on the front- reversed from inner sleeve


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## 38157

Might be a controversial opinion, but I actually preferred the '80s remix of WOIIFM. I think "Who Needs the Peace Corps" sounds so much better with the new bass and drums, as do many of the other tracks. I don't think "Mom and Dad" benefitted at all from that treatment, though.





Also, sounds like my information about Lather was way out of date!


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## Crudblud

elgars ghost said:


> Has anyone got advice on the Läther set? I was wondering if it holds together as an album well and is about as faithful to Zappa's original concept as it's likely to be or whether the four original albums which made up the bulk of it (Zappa In New York/Studio Tan/Sleep Dirt/Orchestral Favourites) are better as separate entities while bearing in mind that Zappa didn't sanction the release of the last three at the time due to a dispute with Warner Bros?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any replies.


For me, _Läther_ is one of Zappa's greatest albums. It has examples of his work in pretty much every area he explored and functions as one long album with total cohesion, though it also works perfectly well as four separate albums. The 2012 remaster is the best commercially available edition, the 1996 release has unnecessary bonus tracks that serve no purpose whatsoever other than slightly extend to the duration, necessitating a third disc where the original tracklist fits perfectly well on just two. Unfortunately the 2012 release persists with the three disc set-up, but apart from that it has a superior mix to the '96 release so works out better overall.

Add.: As for the albums that came from it, I second Starthrower's recommendation of the 2012 edition of _Sleep Dirt_, but I think the rest of the albums are pretty weak in comparison to _Läther_ proper.


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## Bluecrab

As somebody who has listened to Frank Zappa since I was about 14 (I graduated from high school in 1972), I have to say that I've never heard another self-taught composer who could approach what he could do. For example, I think of some of the pieces on _The Yellow Shark_, and it amazes me that he had no true formal music training. Have any of you heard an autodidact that could approach Frank's abilities?


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## starthrower

Bluecrab said:


> I have to say that I've never heard another self-taught composer who could approach what he could do. For example, I think of some of the pieces on _The Yellow Shark_, and it amazes me that he had no true formal music training. Have any of you heard an autodidact that could approach Frank's abilities?


No, but there are quite a few members here who brush off Zappa as some rock star who wrote a few orchestral pieces. The truth is, he was a serious composer before he became a rock star. You can find old interviews and chamber music concerts of Zappa's on YouTube (Mount St Mary's) and you'll see he already had a lot of knowledge and compositional abilities as a 22 year old.


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## Jay

Bluecrab said:


> Have any of you heard an autodidact that could approach Frank's abilities?


Salvatore Sciarrino


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## millionrainbows

I'm not impressed by anything _but_ an autodidact.

One of the most interesting aspects of Zappa was his experience with law enforcement, when he made the 'dirty' tape for the undercover cop. This caused him to lose the Cucamonga Studio, and pretty much shaped his whole attitude towards society, people, and free speech. Songs come to mind which reflect this: *Brown Shoes Don't Make It,* and *Who Are The Brain Police?*


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## millionrainbows




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## Dr Johnson

It might be worth checking out The Lost Episodes.


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## norman bates

Dr Johnson said:


> It might be worth checking out The Lost Episodes.


some great stuff there. Kung fu could be my favorite miniature of him, and then there's a great version of RDNZL


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## starthrower

norman bates said:


> some great stuff there. Kung fu could be my favorite miniature of him, and then there's a great version of RDNZL


Yeah! And a fabulous rendition of Sharleena with Sugarcane Harris. It's an outake from the Hot Rats sessions.


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## starthrower

New Zappa releases on the way. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...y-plans-massive-new-release-schedule-20150729


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

Thanks for that, S, but Joe's Garage, _The Musical_? I never even knew JG was planned for the stage despite the original work having a theatrical nature to it. Have I missed something?

Hope there's a faithful release of Cruisin' With Ruben & The Jets before too long, too - Greasy Love Songs is too expensive.


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## starthrower

It's only rock n roll, but I bet a lot of musicians couldn't cut this tune.
I hope this guy plays somewhere besides his living room. He's pretty
amazing!


----------



## 38157

Finally got "Dance Me This". I don't like it as much as "Civilization Phaze III", and I'm still trying to warm to the first two tracks (the throat singer on the first track doesn't really seem to have a specific function - maybe I'll realise something after listening to the track more than just twice). In my opinion, things start getting good at "Wolf Harbour", the entirety of which I enjoyed immensely. From the first Wolf Harbour to the penultimate track, the album is, in my opinion, borderline perfect. "Calculus" is an ok closing track, I enjoyed the tale behind that and other "burglar music". Not sure if my favourite piece is "Wolf Harbour" or "Piano".

Admittedly, I've still only listened to it twice. Took a break from Zappa after I left a university Zappa covers band, and I've since been on a Mingus and Dolphy spree, so I've been a bit distracted.


----------



## starthrower

Great photo here of Don Cherry with Frank.


----------



## starthrower

RIP Gail Zappa 1945-2015


----------



## Dr Johnson

Agreed. RIP.

Rolling Stone piece on Gail Zappa.


----------



## Simon Moon

starthrower said:


> RIP Gail Zappa 1945-2015


Count me as a huge Frank Zappa fan!

Gail Zappa....eh, not so much...

In 2009 she tried to sue (unsuccessfully, as it turned out) a great 2 day music festival called Zappanale that has been taking place in Germany since 1989. This is a festival put on by ex East Germans, who spent their youths illegally obtaining and listening to Zappa's music, who started the fest as a love letter, so to speak, to Frank.

The bands that play there are progressive and experimental bands influenced by Zappa's music, loaded with world class players.

The festival hardly ever breaks even, so it is really a labor of love.

She also had her lawyers consistently send out scores of cease and desist letters to every Zappa cover band she heard of.

I know it's not considered de rigueur to talk bad of the dead, but her extreme controlling behavior was pretty uncalled for.


----------



## Tero

The Roxy movie is finally out. It comes with a soundtrack CD. Much overlap with the Roxy and Elsewhere album but not identical. So the Zappa fan needs to have both.


----------



## starthrower

Tero said:


> The Roxy movie is finally out. It comes with a soundtrack CD. Much overlap with the Roxy and Elsewhere album but not identical. So the Zappa fan needs to have both.
> View attachment 78150


I watched the film last weekend. It was great to finally see what I've been hearing all these years. Too bad they didn't include Dupree's Paradise for whatever reasons. And Village Of The Sun was cut due to sub par performances. The original album version was heavily doctored with overdubs in post production. But you can hear these two on the Roxy By Proxy CD. I'm glad they included Big Swifty on the DVD. That performance is a long time favorite, first released on volume one of You Can't Do That Onstage Anymore.


----------



## Open Lane

I find a lot of franks music is either hit or miss w/ me. My first and remaining favorite was "hot rats." I also really like "burnt weenie sandwich." Other favorites include "uncle meat," and "the grand wazoo."

I find spoken word on albums kill the replay value so "ahead of their time" and a couple others are rarely listened to by me.

Also, was majorly disapointed in the "freak out" album. Didn't find it too funny.


----------



## starthrower

Open Lane said:


> Also, was majorly disapointed in the "freak out" album. Didn't find it too funny.


I don't know if it was meant to be funny? But definitely thought provoking.


----------



## Crudblud

_Freak Out!_ has a lot going on under the hood that I find is difficult to notice unless you really spend time with it.

As it happens, this is the perfect opportunity for a shameless plug. I have written a review/analysis of _Freak Out!_ here. It's just my interpretation of the record's themes and structure etc., but may prove interesting for Zappa/Mothers fans and curious folks in general.

I've also written other reviews for other Zappa/Mothers albums in chronological order up to and including _Uncle Meat_ so far, but the project has been put on hold for the past several months due having one thing after another get in the way. Hopefully I'll have time and means to finish the _Hot Rats_ review soon.


----------



## starthrower

Thanks, Crudblud! I hope you're able to finish your Zappa Tome one of these days.


----------



## Morimur

Random question: Did Zappa and Stockhausen ever meet?


----------



## starthrower

Morimur said:


> Random question: Did Zappa and Stockhausen ever meet?


Crudblud? I've never read about a meeting. Apparently Frank had a few Stockhausen records when he was in high school, but later on he stated that he wasn't much of a fan. He was more interested in Boulez and Takemitsu. But I'm sure he aborbed some influence through early listening. There's a 1966 Stockhausen documentary on YouTube where he is conducting and directing applause for musical effect. Zappa demonstrated the same technique on a Sydney TV show in 1973. That's on YouTube too.


----------



## Crudblud

Morimur said:


> Random question: Did Zappa and Stockhausen ever meet?


There's a lot of debate on that matter. Zappa's life has been subject to so much mythologising over the years that there are all sorts of stories that probably never happened, and some of them may have been inadvertently started by Zappa himself, either through jokes or off-hand remarks. The closest we get to a concrete story from the horse's mouth is an interview in which Zappa does say that some time in the 1950s (before Zappa was in any way famous) they just happened to bump into each other at a Californian college which Stockhausen was visiting(?) and proceeded to exchange polite greetings before carrying on their separate ways. However, this was never confirmed by Stockhausen, and even if he had been asked it's pretty unlikely that he would remember a random encounter like that, or that he would have known it was Zappa, or even who Zappa was at that time.

There are other Zappa/Stockhausen stories, the most popular being that Zappa attended Stockhausen's lectures in Darmstadt circa 1962, and some of the people who have told this story actually attended Darmstadt at that time, chiefly Rogério Duprat and Juglio Medaglia. Joachim Berendt's _The Jazz Book_ also says that Zappa was in Darmstadt, although even earlier, in the 1950s, when he would have been a teenager. All three claims are highly spurious, and Berendt's is both unsourced and may even have been a misguided attempt to give Zappa more legitimacy in a time when he wasn't taken very seriously at all. He still isn't taken very seriously by most people, but the situation is much better now than it used to be. In any case, Zappa himself never made mention of a Darmstadt visit, and the official story from his recently deceased widow, Gail Zappa, is that he left the US for the first time in 1967.

Basically, it's very difficult if not impossible to say if they did meet or not. Zappa's own story absolutely cannot be confirmed, and the Darmstadt rumours not only don't line up with well established facts about Zappa's life, they have never been confirmed by Zappa or anyone associated with him. So it seems that we'll never really know.

EDIT: According to zappa.com forum (one of my old haunts) veteran slime.oofytv.set, who e-mailed Stockhausen in 2007 concerning the Zappa in Darmstadt question, the response was thus:

_>from: "Prof. Dr. K. Stockhausen" <[email protected]>
>to: slime.o <[email protected]>
>subject: re: frank zappa
>date: sun, 4 feb 2007 09:49:45 +0100
>
>Dear "slime",
>
>
>this is total quatsch!
>
>I have never seen or heard of Zappa in Darmstadt from 1951 until 
>1996! Beware of all the music history manipulators!!
>
>Yours
>
>Karlheinz Stockhausen
>
>
>Kettenberg 15, 51515 Kuerten, Germany
>Fax +49 (0)2268-1813
>www.stockhausen.org
>
>[email protected]

_No idea if this is verifiable, but Stockhausen's email address seems to check out, so I guess that's a pretty definitive debunking of the story.


----------



## starthrower

I would go with Gail's story. It was the Mothers that enabled Frank to travel to Europe.


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## Morimur

Thanks for the informative answers guys!


----------



## Open Lane

starthrower said:


> I don't know if it was meant to be funny? But definitely thought provoking.


Didn't see as much musical value as in some of his other work, and i thought he was trying to be commical based on the titles and some of the content. I hope we can agree "help i'm a rock" and a couple other tracks were intended to be funny

Hell, there is a track called "hot poop" and you don't think it was intended to be funny?

Overall, i just found that album lacking the musical creativity of his other work, so i evaluated it based on comedic value.


----------



## starthrower

Open Lane said:


> Didn't see as much musical value as in some of his other work, and i thought he was trying to be commical based on the titles and some of the content. I hope we can agree "help i'm a rock" and a couple other tracks were intended to be funny
> 
> Hell, there is a track called "hot poop" and you don't think it was intended to be funny?
> 
> Overall, i just found that album lacking the musical creativity of his other work, so i evaluated it based on comedic value.


I see the subject matter and lyrical content as sarcastic commentary from an artist who obviously had a disdain for mediocrity and conformity to social norms. A disdain for people who yearn to be part of a corrupt system and society in order to achieve a sense of social status, and not be perceived as a loser.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms

Or, the guy just got a lot of poo in the brain.


----------



## Open Lane

starthrower said:


> I see the subject matter and lyrical content as sarcastic commentary from an artist who obviously had a disdain for mediocrity and conformity to social norms. A disdain for people who yearn to be part of a corrupt system and society in order to achieve a sense of social status, and not be perceived as a loser.


No offense but i think you're over thinking it a bit. JMHO


----------



## starthrower

Open Lane said:


> No offense but i think you're over thinking it a bit. JMHO


Really? Just listen to the lyrics. This theme is persistent throughout Zappa's work right up to the end of his life.


----------



## Open Lane

Right. And i'm sure he didn't chuckle when naming a song "hot poop."

The man made attempts to be commical. A point which i'm not quite sure how/why it would be debated


----------



## starthrower

Open Lane said:


> Right. And i'm sure he didn't chuckle when naming a song "hot poop."
> 
> The man made attempts to be commical. A point which i'm not quite sure how/why it would be debated


I'm not debating that Zappa could be funny. He had a sense of humor. And Hot Poop is not a song.


----------



## Guest

Open Lane said:


> No offense but i think you're over thinking it a bit. JMHO


You mean Zappa was just having fun and any socio-political commentary was inadvertent or non-existent?


----------



## Open Lane

MacLeod said:


> You mean Zappa was just having fun and any socio-political commentary was inadvertent or non-existent?


Not saying that at all. If you go back and read the full conversation, the topic originated when starthrower acted surprised that someone would evaluate "freak out" for comedic purposes. All i am saying is that frank approached aspects of some of his albums comedically. I am just really surprised if someone doesn't consider the comedic effect when evualuating such an album.



starthrower said:


> I don't know if it was meant to be funny? But definitely thought provoking.


----------



## Guest

Open Lane said:


> Not saying that at all. If you go back and read the full conversation, the topic originated when starthrower acted surprised that someone would evaluate "freak out" for comedic purposes. All i am saying is that frank approached aspects of some of his albums comedically. I am just really surprised if someone doesn't consider the comedic effect when evualuating such an album.


You don't address the point of my query, which was why you thought starthrower was "overthinking it".


----------



## Open Lane

not recognizing comedic (in this case attempted) value --- overthinking it.


----------



## Open Lane

sorry -- phone made two posts --


----------



## Crudblud

The comedy in _Freak Out!_ is largely dry, low-key satire. It's very subtle, and often relies on associations of musical styles or references working in tandem with a particular theme in the lyrics. By Zappa's standards it is incredibly restrained, and a lot of it is very easy to miss. The first time I heard it, back in 2007, I thought it was a generic pop record with a handful of interesting tracks, and it wasn't until recently that I really understood, at least on my own terms, what was going on with it.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

I have one album by Frank Zappa which I was given as a gift - Just Another Band from L.A. - very, very tight musicianship, hilarious and witty lyrics, lots of experimentation and variety.


----------



## starthrower

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I have one album by Frank Zappa which I was given as a gift - Just Another Band from L.A. - very, very tight musicianship, hilarious and witty lyrics, lots of experimentation and variety.


Now that album's got some funny stuff on it! Call Any Vegetable! And the archival release Ahead Of Their Time/Mothers 1968 has some hilarious stuff, plus the full blown guitar solo from Orange County Lumber Truck, of which just a short section was released on Weasels Ripped My Flesh.


----------



## Crudblud

starthrower said:


> Now that album's got some funny stuff on it! Call Any Vegetable! And the archival release Ahead Of Their Time/Mothers 1968 has some hilarious stuff, plus the full blown guitar solo from Orange County Lumber Truck, of which just a short section was released on Weasels Ripped My Flesh.


_Just Another Band from L.A._ is a good record. I mean, I don't think the Flo & Eddie versions of _Dog Breath_ and _Call Any Vegetable_ are as good as the originals from _Uncle Meat_ and _Absolutely Free_ respectively, but the rest of the album is my favourite stuff from that era. It's more restrained than _Fillmore East_, and the humour avoids the one-dimensional quality that seems to be the bread and butter of a lot of the Flo & Eddie era releases.

_Ahead of Their Time_ is another great Mothers album, and more than anything makes me wish more tapes of that era survived. Anything before '68 is practically impossible to get a hold of, and even after that there are so many low quality, barely audible tapes around. It's a real shame, given that what's available is absolute gold, at least for me. But if you like that particular release, the more recent _Road Tapes #1_ is well worth getting. I really hope that series, which so far has only two releases, carries on, it's been the best stuff to come from the vaults in a good while.


----------



## starthrower

I have Road Tapes Venue 2, which is a wonderful concert. I haven't heard no. 1. Who knows how much late 60s Mothers material is in the vaults? But I know the Zappa's rely on customer feedback when considering future releases. I just recieved an email asking me to write a review for Roxy By Proxy. I declined, since I've only listened to it twice. Ruth Underwood tells us everything we need to know in the fantastc liner notes. She pretty much takes us onto the stage and describes the inner workings of the band performing these intricate compositions.


----------



## Morimur

I've come around to Zappa but I am not interested in his humour as much as his music—it's all about the music.


----------



## starthrower

Morimur said:


> I've come around to Zappa but I am not interested in his humour as much as his music-it's all about the music.


It's not really feasible to divorce the man's personality from his music. But not all Zappa albums are filled with jokes and satire. There are strictly instrumental albums such as Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, Jazz From Hell, London Symphony, and the trio of guitar albums. But if you skip Uncle Meat, Hot Rats, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Roxy & Elsewhere, The Grand Wazoo, One Size its All, or Studio Tan, you'll be missing loads of great music.


----------



## Morimur

starthrower said:


> It's not really feasible to divorce the man's personality from his music. But not all Zappa albums are filled with jokes and satire. There are strictly instrumental albums such as Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, Jazz From Hell, London Symphony, and the trio of guitar albums. But if you skip Uncle Meat, Hot Rats, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Roxy & Elsewhere, The Grand Wazoo, One Size its All, or Studio Tan, you'll be missing loads of great music.


You know, Hot Rats and Weasels Ripped My Flesh are albums I've enjoyed intensely. Again, I am immune to the humor but the music is certainly AWESOME.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

starthrower said:


> It's not really feasible to divorce the man's personality from his music. But not all Zappa albums are filled with jokes and satire. There are strictly instrumental albums such as Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, Jazz From Hell, London Symphony, and the trio of guitar albums. But if you skip Uncle Meat, Hot Rats, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Roxy & Elsewhere, The Grand Wazoo, One Size its All, or Studio Tan, you'll be missing loads of great music.


The names alone .


----------



## Simon Moon

starthrower said:


> It's not really feasible to divorce the man's personality from his music.


I have no problems ignoring some of his lyrics (when they are puerile) that do not appeal to me.

Not that I have a problem with most if his lyrics. Some of his satirical and sardonic lyrics are great.


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## starthrower

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> The names alone .


Yeah! FZ was great at coming up with cool titles!


----------



## Dr Johnson

starthrower said:


> Yeah! FZ was great at coming up with cool titles!


Yes he was.

One of my favourites is "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask" which I shall now listen to.


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## starthrower

Prehencile minds!


----------



## EDaddy

http://postimage.org/

One of my all time favorite Zappa songs is _Eat That Question_ off this classic record, The Grand Wazoo. Really showcases his absolute genius as a composer/arranger and demonstrates how, even in an instrumental capacity, his nose-thumbing sense of humor still shines brazenly through (a la the kazoo section toward the end).

RIP Frank! It was a far less uptight world when you were still playing in it.


----------



## starthrower

This Zappa solo just kills me! It's obviously extracted from a live performance of Inca Roads.


----------



## brotagonist

It makes me recall why I used to be such a Zappaholic


----------



## starthrower

Here's one of the earliest interviews I've heard. Done shortly after the release of Freak Out. The discussion focuses on conformity, and the unquestioning nature of the public at large, and the architects of this society that FZ would like to see removed. Unfortunately, it hasn't happened.


----------



## starthrower




----------



## Weston

starthrower said:


> Prehencile minds!


I lost track of the band members from the 80s onward. Does anyone know who is the keyboard player with the falsetto voice from this period? He looks a little like John Novello from the amazing group Niacin, though I suppose I've got the ages way off.


----------



## EdwardBast

Weston said:


> I lost track of the band members from the 80s onward. Does anyone know who is the keyboard player with the falsetto voice from this period? He looks a little like John Novello from the amazing group Niacin, though I suppose I've got the ages way off.


That is Bobby Mann. Also plays sax on some Zappa tunes.


----------



## starthrower

It's Bobby Martin. Ed Mann is the percussionist.


----------



## starthrower

BTW, if you like mallet percussion, track down a copy of Ed's 1988 CMP album, Get Up. There is some phenomenal playing on this CD, and some excellent compositions. It features some of the other Zappa sidemen including Chad Wackerman on drums, and Walt Fowler on trumpet.


----------



## GodNickSatan

I have a question for all the Zappa geeks on here! I'm listening to the recordings Frank made with the London Symphony Orchestra; it's the posthumously release from 1995 that combines both albums, and I'm wondering why the tracklisting has been so dramatically resequenced. Was this just a random thing or was it how it was always envisioned?


----------



## starthrower

Probably neither. How could it be random? Sequencing doesn't happen on its own. I doubt it could be envisioned originally since CDs weren't even on the market when these two volumes were produced in the early 80s.


----------



## GodNickSatan

Sorry, I meant random in the sense that whoever was in charge of releasing it just decided to throw their own tracklist together, which seems like a weird thing to do. I wondered if Frank had planned on releasing it like that on CD while he was alive and never got around to it.


----------



## starthrower

My copy of London Symphony got separated from all my other Zappa CDs, so I can't check to see if the double CD release was FZ authorized.


----------



## Casebearer

I checked out the original question of TS: what Zappa record to buy?

To me Zappa is a universe or something that equals the ecosystem or an elaborate building. You can't take stuff out of that or it will collapse. So in general I'd say buy all of it or just buy whatever you encounter untill you finally have it all. I did (almost) with the exception of the stuff that was released after his death. I only got a few of those (e.g. Playground Psychotics, Finland). 

My question would be: what post-mortem releases would be really necessary to listen to to complete the universe?


----------



## starthrower

The Wazoo Boston 1972 is great if you're a fan of instrumental Zappa. It features a 20 piece band with a lot of woodwinds.

For anyone who loves the 73-74 band, The Roxy Movie, or the Roxy By Proxy CD are recommended. The CD features some fantastic notes by Ruth Underwood. She takes you onto the stage in a virtual world and describes in great detail the inner workings of the band and Frank's music. Listening to this CD and reading Ruth's notes made my hair stand up!

If you like late 70s Zappa, the 3 disc Hammersmith 1978 is recommended. Great sound, and the band is killing!

I also love The Lost Episodes. It's been out for 20 years now. A great collection of studio outakes that FZ put together shortly before his death.

You should be able to sample this stuff on YouTube. And I should mention that the Roxy Movie also comes with a CD.


----------



## 38157

Also essential listening, I think, is Road Tapes Volume 2. It's largely instrumental (so it features some of his best material), and I think is the only official release of that '73 band with Jean-Luc Ponty and Ian Underwood. Disc 1 is gold - Kung Fu, right through to RDNZL is some of the most fun I've had listening to Zappa (this unique version of Exercise 4 is a great precursor to Dog/Meat). Disc 2 is similarly great, and contains the only version of Big Swifty which, in my opinion, surpasses the highly energetic YCDTOSA Vol. 1 version (which was recorded later that same year with a slightly different, more streamlined band). Plus the second official release of the great instrumental, Farther Oblivion.
Z


----------



## starthrower

Frank greeted at airport by US NAVY Band playing Joe's Garage.


----------



## Weston

Hey, folks. I heard Sofa No. 2 today at work after a long hiatus of not hearing One Size Fits All. I love that song! It has to be one of the most beautiful melodies ever written. 

But does anyone know what he was getting at with the German lyrics? "Ich bin der chrome dinette" "I am the clouds. I am embroidered." Is it just surreal nonsense for fun? Is he poking fun at meaningless prog rock lyrics a la Yes, or Tull?

Spine chilling beautiful regardless.


----------



## starthrower

God is German and he likes maroon sofas. Here's an early eccentric performance from London in December 1971. This was the notorious concert where an irate fan pushed Frank into the orchestra pit, putting him in a wheelchair for much of 1972. Eddie Are You Kidding Me?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I'm always Kidding, you know that................


----------



## Casebearer

Always great to hear this song. One of my favorites. It has a beautiful merry melody (sort of sing along Zappa) and the text is wonderful also. God is omnipresent. For instance in the form of 'Dreck unter deinen Bautzen'. That fits my Darwinesque image of the creator.

I'm curious, does anybody know what this fan was irate about? Is his name known? Did he speak about it later on?

Postscript: I see now that the official text is 'Dreck unter deinen Walzen' (at least on azlyrics). I've always heard them sing Bautzen. In both cases I would not know what that word would mean in German. I interpreted it as '**** under your boots'.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^ He claimed in court the Zappa was making "eyes" at his Girlfriend, in the audience...............


----------



## Casebearer

Has anybody followed up on this guy? Lennon's killer has stayed in the eye of the media....


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

No Idea. Report from the time below:
Trevor Howell was his name.........

Fortunately Mr Howell was not to get away with it. What exactly happened is unclear. According to Frank: "After he punched me, he tried to escape into the audience, but a couple of guys in the road crew caught him and took him backstage to hold him for the Police." Michael Gray has him "set upon by some of the audience, but . . . dragged off before he could be seriously hurt." Miles claims, sinisterly, that "Zappa's roadies then taught him a few manners."
In any event, Miles continues, he was arrested and charged with "assault with malicious intent to commit bodily harm. Bail was set at £100."

Ah, wait a minute Google is wonderful---
"Trevor Howell laid tarmack on roads around London for thirty years,1975-2005. On the night of the incident Trevor had smoked cannibus and taken LSD. He was with his girlfriend and he felt that Frank had made 'sexual gestures' towards his girlfriend. Trevor was over 6'2 and 16 stone and he managed to bypass the security and onto the stage. He attacked Frank and pushed him into the pit. The security held Trevor behind the stage and he was kicked and beaten until the police arrived. He spent a year in prison. Trevor overcame his drug use and turned to Buddism, spending the later years of his life in Thailand and Asia, practising Buddism and forms of meditation. Trevor had a good heart and was a kind and giving person. He always regreted his actions that night and would have changed the outcome in hindsight. He learned from the negativity he created and became a positive person because of it."


----------



## Casebearer

Nice research. I love to know these things. 

16 stone, that would be around 101,4 kilograms. 6 foot 2 inch is 183 centimeters + 5,08 centimeters is 188,08 centimeters. 
Small guy, I'd say. I'm taller. I've also been bigger but luckily I've lost almost 2 stone in recent years just by walking some more, some fitness and skipping the weekly pound of peanuts (God's greatest gift to humanity but he forgot the marketing side of it so it's called Duyvis peanuts over here).


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Casebearer said:


> Nice research. I love to know these things.
> 
> 16 stone, that would be around 101,4 kilograms. 6 foot 2 inch is 183 centimeters + 5,08 centimeters is 188,08 centimeters.
> Small guy, I'd say. I'm taller. I've also been bigger but luckily I've lost almost 2 stone in recent years just by walking some more, some fitness and skipping the weekly pound of peanuts (God's greatest gift to humanity but he forgot the marketing side of it so it's called Duyvis peanuts over here).


Small guy hey!

At least there was a positive outcome, Frank got an octave lower- good for the Torture Never Stops and the Guy saw the light or something..............


----------



## Casebearer

Just kidding, but his size would not have impressed me. The LSD and his general aura probably would have.


----------



## elgar's ghost

The fact that the bloke who attacked Zappa was kicked and beaten by security may at least have prevented the Met Police's finest from doing it afterwards, i.e....'It's our lucky night, lads - we've arrested a f****** hippy. So let's take the 'scenic route' back to the nick, shall we?'


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

AHA! Zappa thread  I own at least 20 cd's, many double discs. My favorites are Roxy & elsewhere, One size fits all and "the best band you never heard in your life" (I heard/saw them in Oslo, 1988!!!). Also like the yellow shark, especially "g-spot tornado". Mr. Zappa was friends with the late Arne Nordheim, Norwegian avant garde composer who got a boost when Zappa wanted to meet him in 1973. Zappa has always been popular in Norway (I think/hope). Just found out Arnenordheim is a minor planet, like astroid Zappafrank  THEY ARE IN THE HEAVENS!


----------



## starthrower

Frank in Norway, April 1988


----------



## starthrower

The '75 quintet feat. Nappy, Roy, Andre, Terry Ted, and FZ.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Haven't heard that one


----------



## starthrower

It's a goodun' Cool keyboard sounds from Andre Lewis.


----------



## Casebearer

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> AHA! Zappa thread  I own at least 20 cd's, many double discs. My favorites are Roxy & elsewhere, One size fits all and "the best band you never heard in your life" (I heard/saw them in Oslo, 1988!!!). Also like the yellow shark, especially "g-spot tornado". Mr. Zappa was friends with the late Arne Nordheim, Norwegian avant garde composer who got a boost when Zappa wanted to meet him in 1973. Zappa has always been popular in Norway (I think/hope). Just found out Arnenordheim is a minor planet, like astroid Zappafrank  THEY ARE IN THE HEAVENS!


Funny, I heard/saw the same band in Rotterdam (1988). It was the Best Band I Ever Heard in My Life.


----------



## starthrower




----------



## starthrower




----------



## starthrower

I went to see Dweezil's band last night, and it was a very creative and enjoyable show. Music from Freak Out, ...Money, 200 Motels, Joe's Garage, and Black Napkins was very impressive! They managed to approximate a big band sound a la the '88 tour with bari and alto sax enhancements, which made this number a highlight of the show, as well as the beautiful Watermelon In Easter Hay played on a great sounding stratocaster. Here are comments from Dweezil on the current band and tour.

http://www.dweezilzappa.com/posts/1982454-it-can-happen-here

PS Unbeknownst to me, my friend recorded the show on his 400 dollar phone, so we listened back to it on the hour's drive home. It sounded pretty good coming through his car stereo speakers.


----------



## starthrower




----------



## Casebearer

Nice to see that interview. I learned that you, Eddie and I are part of the (once) "young straight people".


----------



## starthrower

He's right about that! I was never a hippy or a stoner. Just a working stiff and a lone wolf. FZ was our mouthpiece, saying the things the rest of us couldn't say because we need our jobs.

Here's more from the same show.


----------



## Barbebleu

In the interests of expediency can everyone assume that I like every post because I love Frank's music, even the Flo and Eddie period. Keep on folding those black napkins!


----------



## starthrower

Just released!










I bought the two on the right yesterday. I'm digging in to the Meat Light project right now, and it's a very tasty sucker! Includes a 10 minute Nine Types Of Industrial Pollution at normal speed with Frank's full acoustic guitar improv. I went right to that track first, and then went back to the beginning of the disc.

The other one is called Little Dots which consists of '72 live material similar to the Imaginary Diseases release featuring a jazzy ten piece ensemble. In addition to the title piece, the other highlight is a 24 minute excerpt from a completely improvised performance in Columbia, South Carolina. Drummer Jim Gordon and an other member of the band were busted for cocaine possession before the show and hauled off to jail. FZ, always quick on his feet, headed to the opening act's (Tim Buckley) dressing room and recruited their drummer for the night's performance.

I held off on Chicago '78, because only a small portion of the material interests me, although I've heard it is a very good sounding concert.


----------



## starthrower

Universal has uploaded Chicago '78 to YouTube. 
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zappa+chicago+78

As well as Little Dots. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zappa+little+dots


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Thanks, will give them a listen


----------



## starthrower

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Thanks, will give them a listen


Enjoy, mate! I really like disc 2 of Chicago '78. I may have to fork over and buy a copy even though the first disc doesn't hold much interest past the intro.


----------



## starthrower

Frank at the Ritz! This is the famous show with Al Di Meola.


----------



## starthrower

Frank in Berlin. I believe this was the show attended by David Bowie. Adrian Belew defected shortly thereafter.


----------



## tdc

Was reading a bit about Zappa last night, I never knew he was pushed off a ten foot stage (onto concrete) by a lunatic fan in '71 nearly resulting in his death and leading to some permanent physical damage. (!)

That is the kind of thing that would force many into early retirement, I admire him for coming back strong after and continuing to tour.


----------



## starthrower

FZ post orchestra pit fall.










Lucky for us, Zappa's months of recuperation resulted in many new compositions, and the albums Grand Wazoo, and Waka Jawaka. During 1972, Frank mainly did short weeked tours assembling LA's top session players for his big band charts. The recorded live results have been seeing the light of day over the past several years with the posthumous releases Zappa Wazoo, Imaginary Diseases, and the recently released Little Dots.


----------



## starthrower

Re-listening to part 1 of Little Dots, I'm astonished at the excellent quality of this composition and performance. And the fact that FZ left this and all the other stuff in the can for the rest of his life.


----------



## millionrainbows

​


----------



## starthrower

Kind of a murky b&w film, but great see this band in action. And FZ opening with Deathless Horsie on his SG guitar.


----------



## Casebearer

starthrower said:


> FZ post orchestra pit fall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky for us, Zappa's months of recuperation resulted in many new compositions, and the albums Grand Wazoo, and Waka Jawaka. During 1972, Frank mainly did short weeked tours assembling LA's top session players for his big band charts. The recorded live results have been seeing the light of day over the past several years with the posthumous releases Zappa Wazoo, Imaginary Diseases, and the recently released Little Dots.


Can't listen to it again, but it's available on this side of YouTube in maybe a different upload by someone else. It has less than a hundred views so far which will soon change as it's really good. Nice to hear Zappa stuff you don't know already!.


----------



## starthrower

Jazz is not dead!


----------



## Casebearer

starthrower said:


> Jazz is not dead!


Incredible this is not the Grand Wazoo big band but just the Petit Wazoo smaller band. It sounds like a Big band often. It's also a thin line to modern classical at times. Maybe modern classical is not dead as well?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

RIP Allan Zavod another Mother is gone and the Aussie Zappa connection too RIP.


----------



## starthrower

Too many great musicians checking out this year.


----------



## starthrower

Funny monologue intro here.


----------



## starthrower

Gift for a Zappa fan. Hey, where's the beer holder!


----------



## tdc

starthrower said:


> Funny monologue intro here.


That is a great flowing melody.

...and all the while on a shelf in the shed, Kenny's little creature is on display...


----------



## millionrainbows

Yes, the jazz stuff Zappa wrote during his recuperation is real good. I just recently got out Waka Jawaka and gained a new appreciation. The ending is spectacular. Great solos and drumming throughout. Supposedly the title is based on what a guitar scratching thru a wah-wah pedal sounds like.


----------



## Vronsky

Frank Zappa and next to him is Jello Biafra. Rare photograph.


----------



## starthrower

Very similar show to the one I attended six days earlier.


----------



## starthrower

Blows away every other version I've heard. Recorded in Sydney 1973 w/ JL Ponty, G Duke, Bruce Fowler, Ruth Underwood, etc. Sound is fantastic!


----------



## starthrower

Early influences/classical music in pop culture/WW2/ 50s politics


----------



## starthrower

Choral Zappa






Big Band Zappa - Italian virtuosos in superb audio!


----------



## starthrower

Musical birth place of the Mother Superior.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Your favorite Zappa Synclavier performance/ composition. My would be the black page done on the Synclavier.


----------



## Casebearer

There's nothing like Zappa's Synclavier.


----------



## starthrower

Dukey does Frank!


----------



## Guest

qualityaudio said:


> Dweezil Zappa has been trotting around the globe performing his dad's stuff for a few years now giving us all a chance to hear this incredible muzic live. I caught one of the shows at the Roxy in LA on the anniversary of FZ's legendary concerts there. It was pretty amazing being in such an intimate venue with a virtuoso performance lasting nearly three hours! DZ has put together an excellent group and IMO is an even _better_ guitarist than FZ, believe it or not. (I heard once that FZ had mandated that DZ be the only one to play lead on a few of his songs. Can't confirm that however.) Check out the DVD of "Zappa Plays Zappa" and click here for the current tour schedule.
> 
> Some of my favorite compositions by FZ are on the ZPZ release including Inca Roads, Florentine Pogen, Black Napkins, The Torture Never Stops, Echidna''s Arf (of You), and of course, Peaches en Regalia.


Personally, I think Dweezil is better than his dad just as I think Jason Bonham is better that his. I doubt John or Frank would argue with me.


----------



## Guest

My favorite Zappa story came from an interview I read with Steve Vai. Vai was on the verge of getting into Zappa's band but Zappa told him there was one last test. He handed Vai a big arm load of doo *** 45s and told him to learn them all--A and B sides--he had the weekend to learn them. Vai could think of nothing he wanted to do less than play a bunch of moldy oldies over a weekend but Zappa told him that if he wanted to be in the band, he had to learn his doo ***, the very basis of the Mothers' music. Vai took the records home and started playing the records and putting guitar chords to them and about halfway through the stack, it hit him--doo ***, man! That's where it's at! And Vai has been a huge doo *** fan ever since. It wasn't really that Zappa want Vai to simply learn the songs, he wanted Vai to make that connection, to feel the doo *** hit him in the soul and stick.


----------



## Casebearer

Victor Redseal said:


> Personally, I think Dweezil is better than his dad just as I think Jason Bonham is better that his. I doubt John or Frank would argue with me.


He's very good at performing the Zappa stuff but as a composer?


----------



## starthrower




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## David OByrne

starthrower said:


>


This sounds cool


----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


Great video, thanks


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Casebearer said:


> Great video, thanks


Was great to George, Ruth, Ralph, Tom, etc and Frank


----------



## starthrower

Oh Yeah!


----------



## 38157

Anyone heard the new releases, Little Dots and Meat Light? Little Dots to me was an inferior Imaginary Diseases, too much noodling, but it was good to hear the primordial Cosmik Debris in better-than-bootleg quality, and great to FINALLY see a proper release of the complete, unmitigated Rollo. Tony Duran, good a player as he was, seems to fall back on the same "stock" phrases sometimes, though during his solos... The title track was nice too, but the best bits were the theme... none of the improv in the middle really grabbed me particularly.

Only listened to Meat Light yesterday, enjoyed it thoroughly. Blood Unit was lovely, and it's interesting to hear the Exercise #4 Variant, which the '73 band also played on Road Tapes #2. Not a big fan of Echo Pie though... left me with a similar bad taste as If We'd All Been Living in California. Intriguing as it is to hear the band disputes, I don't think it's fair to publish those recordings on an album, as the way it's framed (especially on the original UM, with The Air following immediately after) is obviously a snide way of ridiculing Jimmy Carl Black (especially considering the credits, crediting JCB with "drums... and poverty"). Ironic that FZ defended the hell out of Herb Cohen, only to get ripped off by him himself a few years down the line. Really nice to have a CD version of Uncle Meat without the penalty tracks now. Got the original vinyl, but playing that thing's more messing around than I often can be bothered with...nice as vinyl is, digital formats are definitely more convenient.


----------



## Jay

****** said:


> _Little Dots_ to me was an inferior _Imaginary Diseases_; too much noodling.


Agreed, on both points; Zappa too often exemplified the stereotype of the "endless guitar solo".


----------



## 38157

Yeah, he could be a rambler. There are times when his solos hit the spot, but other times I'm just waiting for the music to kick in again. Sometimes it's as though he's just thinking out loud (which I'm pretty sure he was, considering sometimes he'd trawl through his solos and orchestrate and elaborate upon his favourite bits - as in Mo n' Herb's Vacation and Sad Jane), but he makes up for that sometimes. But that's why I loved the Roxy Movie - he did a few pretty tasteful solos, but we mostly just got to see a great band play some great music (lovely versions of Inca Roads and Big Swifty).


----------



## starthrower

Penalty tracks? Who came up with that stupid term? I just turn it off after King Kong. The guitar solos on Little Dots are not the greatest, but it wasn't a regular working band. It was a bunch of LA studio cats going out on the road with FZ for weekend gigs. And Frank's guitar playing improved a lot over the next several years. 1972 was not a regular touring year. He was recovering from his fall into the orchestra pit at the end of '71.


----------



## 38157

starthrower said:


> Penalty tracks? Who came up with that stupid term?


Heard it a few times, so I'm not sure, but I think it's a very apt term. On my copy - Rykodisc - I have to switch to disc 2 for King Kong, which wouldn't be a necessity if it wasn't for the boring excerpt from the Uncle Meat film. It didn't enthrall me much with visuals, but in pure audio format, it's just thoroughly and painfully unentertaining, so if that's not a penalty track, I don't know what is. So the Meat Light disc is much welcomed, I can just listen to the Uncle Meat album proper without any BS and without having to whip out the vinyl.

And as much as I understand that about Petit Wazoo band and era, my criticism isn't particularly the guitar solos, but just the general album - most of the solos bore me a bit, Frank or not. Imaginary Diseases had great compositions - Rollo, Farther Oblivion, the title track - and I liked the solos more, too. Most of Little Dots just felt like filler. I loved having the complete Rollo, I liked Cosmik, I liked the theme from Little Dots - nothing else really sticks in my mind, though. Zappa's my favourite composer, so I want to hear his compositions, not a bunch of improvising which varies massively in quality. Overall it was a good album, but it never really comes out unless I feel like hearing Rollo. Good band, but the album just wasn't the greatest selection.

I've found that with a few of the more recent releases actually. Road Tapes #3 had some alright moments, maybe I'll find more I like in that as I've only listened to it twice so far. Crux of the Biscuit was OK, but the highlight was decent quality '73 Yellow Snow Suite (great to hear St. Alfonzo's without Rollo Interior edited out like on One Shot Deal, and to hear Join the March). Other than that, I liked Down in the Dew. Rest was probably ok, but less than memorable (as I can't remember it, other than a Cosmik with some guitar all over it, and a bit of a different Uncle Remus). Road Tapes #2 and Roxy By Proxy were the last two I loved thoroughly and still play regularly.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Donald-Roll...042119?hash=item41aa7ab2c7:g:12UAAOSw8vZXMST0


----------



## starthrower

If I had a buck and a half to blow, I'd buy a new house in the country.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Same.................................


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## Casebearer

I knew he was classical!


----------



## starthrower

Courtesy of Mark Pinske. Former Zappa sound engineer.

http://www.pinske.com/images/Zappa_SP11-18-80_Tiny_Lights.mp3


----------



## starthrower

Frank on the King Biscuit broadcast. Munich 1980.


----------



## starthrower

Which FZ song is the best omen of the next 4 years? Go!

OK, I'll start. "Shall We Take Ourselves Seriously?"


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Either "Son of Orange County" with its line, "And in your dreams you can see yourself / As a prophet saving the world / The words from your lips ('I am not a crook') / I just can't believe you are such a fool."

or "Dickie's Such an A**hole"


----------



## Casebearer

The Torture Never Stops

Bobby Brown: trouble everyday.
Dumb all over, a little ugly on the side.
Charlie's enormous mouth.
Any downers?

Honey, don't you want a man like me?
Be in my video (or)
Wind up working in a gas station

Muffin Man help! I'm a Rock.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Casebearer said:


> The Torture Never Stops
> 
> Bobby Brown: trouble everyday.
> Dumb all over, a little ugly on the side.
> Charlie's enormous mouth.
> Any downers?
> 
> Honey, don't you want a man like me?
> Be in my video (or)
> Wind up working in a gas station
> 
> Muffin Man help! I'm a Rock.


LOL definitely Muffin Man - Girl you thought he was a man,
But he was a muffin,
He hung around till you found,
That he didn't know nuthin',
Girl you thought he was a man,
But he only was a-puffin',


----------



## starthrower

What's Frank going to listen to? Maybe some Johnny Guitar Watson?


----------



## chalkpie

starthrower said:


> Which FZ song is the best omen of the next 4 years? Go!
> 
> OK, I'll start. "Shall We Take Ourselves Seriously?"


Dumb all over. .


----------



## Jay

"We Can Shoot You"


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

"Brown Shoes Don't Make it" - for a lot of reasons......................


----------



## starthrower

Afer one week of Trump, I might have to go with The Central Scrutinizer.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Here is a curiosity, The film credits to Run Home Slow features Zappa's music.......


----------



## Casebearer

Not bad at all.


----------



## starthrower

Zappa.com only vault releases to be re-issued for general retailers on March 24, 2017.
These titles listed at Amazon:

Philly '76
Hammersmith '78
Greasy Love Songs aka Reuben & The Jets
Carnegie Hall 1971
FZ:OZ
One Shot Deal
Everything Is Healing Nicely
Roxy By Proxy
Dance Me This
Buffalo


----------



## starthrower

Rare big band performance in Berlin.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

One of the only three recordings of this particular and unique line up, featuring one of the most explosive drummer duets you'll ever hear! This is the best sounding recording of the three. Full info and setlist: 

FZ: guitar, vocals, conductor
Ray Collins: lead vocals
Motorhead Sherwood: tambourine, dancing, baritone sax
Don Preston: organ, assorted weird things and gongs
Ian Underwood: electric piano, alto sax
Jeff "Swoovette" Simmons: bass, lead vocals (Wonderful Wino), back vocals
Billy Mundi: drums
Aynsley Dunbar: drums

Tracklist: 
01: Intro
02: Who Needs The Peace Corps (including Duke Of Prunes theme) (02:05)
03: Wonderful Wino (Zappa/Simmons) (10:07)
04: How Could I Be Such A Full (15:55)
05: Chunga's Revenge (19:55)
06: My Boyfriend's Back/I'm Gonna Bust His Head (31:07)
07: Tiny Sick Tears (34:00)
08: Agon (Stravinsky) (42:40)
09: Call Any Vegetable/Invocation & Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin/Soft-Cell Conclusion (43:26)
10: King Kong (including Igor's Boogie) (52:25)
11: "M.O.I teenage encores"
12: Little House I Used To Live In (1:05:19)
13: Holiday In Berlin, Full Blown (incl. Inca Roads theme) (1:09:07)
14: Cruising For Burgers (1:18:05)


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## millionrainbows

I just received the 3-CD Uncle Meat remaster, and Greasy Love Songs (original mix of Cheap Thrills) from Wayside. Thanx to Starthrower for turning us on to that place. Very speedy delivery, I was very surprised.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

millionrainbows said:


> I just received the 3-CD Uncle Meat remaster, and Greasy Love Songs (original mix of Cheap Thrills) from Wayside. Thanx to Starthrower for turning us on to that place. Very speedy delivery, I was very surprised.


Two of my favorite Zappa albums i will have to look at this Wayside too


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

Larry's not with us anymore...


----------



## starthrower

millionrainbows said:


> I just received the 3-CD Uncle Meat remaster, and Greasy Love Songs (original mix of Cheap Thrills) from Wayside. Thanx to Starthrower for turning us on to that place. Very speedy delivery, I was very surprised.


Wayside has been around for over 35 years. They don't always have the best prices on everything, but they do carry a lot of interesting stuff if you're into progressive music. And they have a lot of sale items. The owner is also the founder of Cuneiform Records label.


----------



## starthrower

Picked up Greasy Love Songs at a local store yesterday. A very classy re-issue package, and it sounds great!


----------



## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> Picked up Greasy Love Songs at a local store yesterday. A very classy re-issue package, and it sounds great!


And what's that car on the cover? A Nash?

It always puzzled me the way Zappa first remixed this album for CD. First, he removed the electric bass and replaced it with a standup string bass. Then, he put Ian Underwood's "redundant piano triplets" way down in the mix, almost to the point of inaudibility. I got the impression that he was mad at Ian Underwood because of this.

Also, I'm going to have to get Hot Rats in its original vinyl mix.


----------



## millionrainbows

I wonder if the digital mixes are really "better" than the earlier ones. If so, it must have something to do with the way CDs are mastered now, not a question of digital/analogue.

The new mix of Absolutely Free is taken from the original tape; you can tell, because there is some tape drop-out at the very first, where the tape is obviously damaged. This is inconsequential, though, because the rest of the album sounds good.

I can't tell any difference in the Freak Out mixes.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

millionrainbows said:


> I wonder if the digital mixes are really "better" than the earlier ones. If so, it must have something to do with the way CDs are mastered now, not a question of digital/analogue.
> 
> The new mix of Absolutely Free is taken from the original tape; you can tell, because there is some tape drop-out at the very first, where the tape is obviously damaged. This is inconsequential, though, because the rest of the album sounds good.
> 
> I can't tell any difference in the Freak Out mixes.


Yeah agreed I've got an original Freak Out Pressing (well early seventies reprint) and a new vinyl reprint and can't tell the difference. Luckily Ive got original pressing of most of the early Zappa Lps also including Ab free, Crusin, WOITFTM, Lumpy Gravy, Mothers Day Comp and Uncle Meat and much prefer the orignal pressings but Freak Out Sounds the same to me.


----------



## Casebearer

millionrainbows said:


> And what's that car on the cover? A Nash?
> 
> It always puzzled me the way Zappa first remixed this album for CD. First, he removed the electric bass and replaced it with a standup string bass. Then, he put Ian Underwood's "redundant piano triplets" way down in the mix, almost to the point of inaudibility. I got the impression that he was mad at Ian Underwood because of this.
> 
> Also, I'm going to have to get Hot Rats in its original vinyl mix.


I have Hot Rats on vinyl but I do not like the sound/mix of it at all. An important reason why I could never understand the very high rating Hot rats seems to get always & everywhere. I think every remix much be a whole lot better.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Casebearer said:


> I have Hot Rats on vinyl but I do not like the sound/mix of it at all. An important reason why I could never understand the very high rating Hot rats seems to get always & everywhere. I think every remix much be a whole lot better.


I have not heard the remix, I have it on vinyl and an early CD version which sounds the same as the vinyl to me- will have to check it out. I love hot rats


----------



## Barbebleu

I listened to Watermelon in Easter Hay from the album, Guitar, this evening. Absolutely brilliant piece of guitar playing by Frank.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Barbebleu said:


> I listened to Watermelon in Easter Hay from the album, Guitar, this evening. Absolutely brilliant piece of guitar playing by Frank.


Yep is a classical but Frank did so many he set the bench mark for those who follow ie Steve Vai, Satch, buckethead etc


----------



## starthrower

Just got this tasty sucker!


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

starthrower said:


> Just got this tasty sucker!


Is a good one- I taped it on my Nak of Youtube is it is not available in the shops in Oz ZFT need to get some better distribution outside of the US happening


----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Is a good one- I taped it on my Nak of Youtube is it is not available in the shops in Oz ZFT need to get some better distribution outside of the US happening


Or starthrower should start his own distribution centre, ha ha.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## starthrower

Casebearer said:


> Or starthrower should start his own distribution centre, ha ha.


Buffalo, and many other posthumous titles are now available from general retailers. Buffalo features a monumental version of The Torture Never Stops with jazzy keyboard solo played over walking bass.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## starthrower

Released May 11, 1981.



















https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shut_Up_'n_Play_Yer_Guitar


----------



## Agamemnon

Some of Zappa's work I really like very much - especially the albums Roxy & Elsewhere and Zoot Allures - but because he is so adored by some people I also think he is overrated (by the people who adore him). I think he is overrated as a songwriter/composer: to put it very negatively I find much of his work a unmixable mix of cheesy doo-*** pastiches and boring imitations of serious composers like Varese. I think he found his true form in the early seventies with the rise of jazz rock or jazz fusion in which genre he also could excel in his greatest talent: playing guitar. I regard Zappa overrated as a composer but underrated as a guitarist: Zappa is in my top 5 of best rock guitarists of all time.


----------



## starthrower

Well, as Zappa used to say, "rating guitarists is a stupid hobby".


----------



## Casebearer

Well, Agamemnon, don't kill our darlings...


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## Vronsky




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Vronsky said:


>


Birth of a genius


----------



## Tero

Casebearer said:


> I have Hot Rats on vinyl but I do not like the sound/mix of it at all. An important reason why I could never understand the very high rating Hot rats seems to get always & everywhere. I think every remix much be a whole lot better.


Will have to check what I have. I had the original LP many years ago, still had it in the 90s. Had to unload about 300 LPs.


----------



## starthrower

Current Hot Rats CD (2012) is the original mix. The 1987 re-issue features FZ's re-mix which gives everything a much hotter sound with the guitars way up in the mix. That's the one I prefer.


----------



## Casebearer

I'll have to get me that one some day.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## Casebearer

Great Tuna Sandwich, Eddie!


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST.
...in case you forgot


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST.
...in case you forgot


----------



## elgar's ghost

The link below may have actually been given to me by someone here on TC but anyone who is unsure what edition to get when buying Uncle Frank's albums for the first time could do worse than refer to this.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

Sorry about doubleposting before. I'll call the internet and complain


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Tell them its gotta be Absolutely-Free


----------



## Casebearer

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Sorry about doubleposting before. I'll call the internet and complain


You can't post these lines enough


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


Terrible arrangement that translates the piece into 'old styles', not adding but detracting from it.


----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


very nice piece of guitar music this way (but not the great uplifting song as in the Zappa perfomances).


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Casebearer said:


> very nice piece of guitar music this way (but not the great uplifting song as in the Zappa perfomances).


Agreed not as good as zappas but some others have rework this arrangement to greater effect


----------



## ST4

Bamboozled by love


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

ST4 said:


> Bamboozled by love


The funny version


----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Agreed not as good as zappas but some others have rework this arrangement to greater effect


Much better this one in my opinion


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

If youve never heard Micheal Hedges you should give his stuff a listen - tragically he died in a car crash many years ago


----------



## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The funny version


I bought all of them when they came out. Such a goldmine to enjoy forever ('Eternal Joy').


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I've got all except Vol one but have the sampler album on Vinyl - which is nice too


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




----------



## Casebearer

The Firebird meets Zappa in heaven (but strictly genteel).


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## millionrainbows

Just got "Dance Me This," the last record Zappa made. It's synclavier mostly, with the throat singers from Tuva making a big contribution. There is a guitar solo as well. It's worth getting.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^ I've been trying to find it in shop in Oz (for couple of years) but no luck so far


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## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


I get weak in the knees listening to this stuff. Glad I'm sitting down...


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## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


I haven't been able to listen to more than 15 minutes so far but very interesting!


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## starthrower

Casebearer said:


> I haven't been able to listen to more than 15 minutes so far but very interesting!


Too bad the audio isn't of better quality. The Q & A session is interesting. FZ was quite knowledgeable and articulate in his responses.


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## bigshot

I got the costume box set of the six Halloween 77 concerts. It's spectacular. MUCH better sound than the old bootlegs, and quite a different impact than the overdubbed tracks on Sheik Yerbouti. The guitar solos are fantastic and it's great to hear the songs played with different approaches to the solos each time. The costume is silly, but the USB stick is packed with great stuff. Well worth getting.


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## starthrower

bigshot said:


> I got the costume box set of the six Halloween 77 concerts. It's spectacular. MUCH better sound than the old bootlegs, and quite a different impact than the overdubbed tracks on Sheik Yerbouti. The guitar solos are fantastic and it's great to hear the songs played with different approaches to the solos each time. The costume is silly, but the USB stick is packed with great stuff. Well worth getting.


I'll probably pick up the 3 CD set. Although I'd like to hear all the versions for the guitar solos. There are several versions of the half hour Wild Love already up on YouTube. Many of the basic live tracks overdubbed for Sheik Yerbouti are from the Hammersmith '78 shows.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Maybe you haven't heard this version since it's on the Lost Episodes...My favorite fun on the album is this: "I'm a band leader. Not only can I drink a whole lot, but I play 23 different instruments too, and don't even know how to read music..."


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Maybe you haven't heard this version since it's on the Lost Episodes...My favorite fun on the album is this: "I'm a band leader. Not only can I drink a whole lot, but I play 23 different instruments too, and don't even know how to read music..."


Love that record is one of my favs


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## Barbebleu

millionrainbows said:


> Just got "Dance Me This," the last record Zappa made. It's synclavier mostly, with the throat singers from Tuva making a big contribution. There is a guitar solo as well. It's worth getting.


I bought this a while ago but haven't got round to listening to it. I will remedy that soon. Didn't realise a it had throat singing on it. I love that sort of thing.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## Kjetil Heggelund

Turn on the bubblemachine!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

More bubbles


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## Casebearer




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## starthrower

Complete Roxy concert run to be released on 7 CD set.

https://www.jambase.com/article/frank-zappas-famed-1973-roxy-performances-released-7-cd-box-set


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## Casebearer

Yeah, I saw that in the zappa.com regular mails I get. I never know what to buy and what not.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

just brought a copy of everything is healing nicely


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Whatever happened to all the fun in the world?


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## starthrower

Casebearer said:


> Yeah, I saw that in the zappa.com regular mails I get. I never know what to buy and what not.


I love the Roxy era band. There are already some excellent more affordable sets available. Roxy By Proxy, the Helsinki Concert, and the original double album Roxy and Elsewhere. I'll probably get the complete set for all the performances, although some of the live vocals are a little rough. Some were overdubbed for the original album.


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## starthrower

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> just brought a copy of everything is healing nicely


I bought this recently too. I like it. Some interesting modern chamber orchestra rehearsal and improv recordings.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

starthrower said:


> I bought this recently too. I like it. Some interesting modern chamber orchestra rehearsal and improv recordings.


Agreed, I like it plus the improv is great too- the german ascent spoken section cracks me up every time. Went into JBHIFI record store in Melbourne and saw the biggest collection of Zappa CD's I've ever seen- it was like a feeding frenzy (like a monkey at the Zoo) - now there is more zappa title ideas lol - also got Lumpy Money and Civ Phase 3 - had to do a quick short listing and pair down my initial selection of 10 cd's but I be back for more.......


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## Casebearer

starthrower said:


> I love the Roxy era band. There are already some excellent more affordable sets available. Roxy By Proxy, the Helsinki Concert, and the original double album Roxy and Elsewhere. I'll probably get the complete set for all the performances, although some of the live vocals are a little rough. Some were overdubbed for the original album.


Yes, I have all of those already. I think I'll skip this one.


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## Casebearer

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Agreed, I like it plus the improv is great too- the german ascent spoken section cracks me up every time. Went into JBHIFI record store in Melbourne and saw the biggest collection of Zappa CD's I've ever seen- it was like a feeding frenzy (like a monkey at the Zoo) - now there is more zappa title ideas lol - also got Lumpy Money and Civ Phase 3 - had to do a quick short listing and pair down my initial selection of 10 cd's but I be back for more.......


Civilization Phase III is the best thing a Human can get on this Earth. I bought it around 1993 in a dump store for books and videos for circa 15 euro's. Lucky me. I was quite surprised to see this treasure between all this dumpware and I should have bought all their copies.


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## 38157

Excited for the new set - looking forwards to hearing Bebop Rollo (never heard this particular band play Rollo, only Petit Wazoo and much later bands), but I bet it's gold. And any version of Big Swifty I've never heard is welcome, even if it's just a short rehearsal (hope it's the outchorus). Plus, best era for RDNZL (even though it was before the melody was penned - the energy in the '73 versions is just great, and I love Ralph Humphrey's furious drumming), so glad to be receiving a few new versions of that piece. Much more interested in this than the Halloween box set.


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## Casebearer

Ha ha, Mr. ****** 5 zloty. My avatar is a Polish rip off as well but I guess nobody here will ever guess what it really is.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Was Imaginary Diseases - from 1972 a Peak for Frank as a rock Guitarist and a rock composer with the Petite Wazoo Band?

After this we got titties and beer, were we too Dumb all over to appreciate what he was going in 1972 and he had to dumb his music down for most of the rest of the 70's to make a buck?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Bob Dylan visited FZ on December 22, 1982, showing up at FZ's door, in the freezing cold, to play some songs on the piano; he asks FZ if he would produce an album (what turned out to be "Infidels") for him. Dylan did not get in touch with FZ after that; "Infidels" was produced by Bob Dylan & Mark Knopfler and released in 1983.

A few well placed snorks could have really livened it up

or maybe we would have got 
blowin in the teen-age wind
highway 50/50 revisited
the san clemente magnetic desolation row
tangled up in the blue light
shut up 'n play lady play yer guitar
holiday in berlin full blown in the wind
man with just like a woman head
stucco homesick blues
Slow train with a Jerk


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Wanna buy some mandies, Bob?


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## starthrower

Wind up workin' on maggie's farm


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Are you hung up?


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## Mowgli

Lay Dinah-Moe Lay


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## Casebearer

There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Frank Zappa - The Petit Wazoo Orchestra


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## starthrower

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Was Imaginary Diseases - from 1972 a Peak for Frank as a rock Guitarist and a rock composer with the Petite Wazoo Band?
> 
> After this we got titties and beer, were we too Dumb all over to appreciate what he was going in 1972 and he had to dumb his music down for most of the rest of the 70's to make a buck?


I happen to think everything up to '75 is excellent. After that the lyrics got pretty crude, but the music was still challenging. And Sleep Dirt is one of my favorites. I don't believe FZ was anywhere near his peak as a guitarist in '72. He kept getting better throughout the 70s and early 80s. I thought the "88 band was fantastic. I'd like to see a show or two from that tour get released.


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## starthrower

Just discovered this wonderful film. These kids are really inspired by Zappa music.


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## elgar's ghost

Sorry if this has been asked already but I notice Amazon are selling _Greasy Love Songs_ for a reasonable price. Is this a re-issue of the 2010 edition or the same one? Whatever, I'm going to pounce.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

elgars ghost said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already but I notice Amazon are selling _Greasy Love Songs_ for a reasonable price. Is this a re-issue of the 2010 edition or the same one? Whatever, I'm going to pounce.


Yeah, I just brought a copy for $15 bucks in Oz i think its a re-issue of the 2010 as part of the project object rtelelases but is very good and alot of fun- much bettter them the earlier cd release with overdubs of bass and drums


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## elgar's ghost

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yeah, I just brought a copy for $15 bucks in Oz i think its a re-issue of the 2010 as part of the project object rtelelases but is very good and alot of fun- much bettter them the earlier cd release with overdubs of bass and drums


Thanks. Ed - pity the ill-advised re-mix with Barrow and Wackerman can't be permanently deleted (who would actually prefer this when there's a genuine alternative on offer?). Hopefully one day the pukka version will be given back its original title and sleeve art.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

...registering a 19 on the Richter scale. So Zappa-freaks: who, what and where?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Anything Anytime Anyplace For No Reason At All


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Something with black nylon in Madison, but you can't do that...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Something with black nylon in Madison, but you can't do that...


Was that in or with


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## SanAntone

*200 Motels*










200 Motels is a 1971 surreal musical film written and directed by Frank Zappa and Tony Palmer, and featuring music by Zappa.

The film attempts to portray the craziness of life on the road as a rock musician, and as such consists of a series of unconnected nonsense vignettes interspersed with concert footage of the Mothers of Invention.[5] Ostensibly, while on tour The Mothers of Invention go crazy in the small fictional town of Centerville ("a real nice place to raise your kids up"), wander around, and get beaten up in "******* Eats", a cowboy bar. In an animated interlude passed off as a "dental hygiene movie", bassist "Jeff", tired of playing what he refers to as "Zappa's comedy music", is persuaded by his bad conscience to quit the group, as did his real-life counterpart Jeff Simmons. Simmons was replaced by Martin Lickert (who was Starr's chauffeur) for the film.[4] Almost every scene is drenched with video special effects (double and triple exposures, solarisation, false color, speed changes, etc.) which were innovative in 1971. The film has been dubbed a "surrealistic documentary".


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## Crudblud

I really like the "Suites" album that came out in 2013. Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting the LA Phil in a somewhat reduced (materially, not instrumentally) version of _200 Motels_. It's really great to hear all that music in good, detailed sound, and you can tell all the musicians are having a whale of a time with it, a world apart from the stuffy reception Zappa got when he was making the original album. The level of respect for Zappa's work in orchestral and chamber music has really changed a lot and for the better in the decades since his death.


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## Xisten267

I'm new to Zappa, and have been hearing his albums all day long. I think that the technical proficiency in his music is amazing, but I miss some changes of mood in it. Can someone please recommend me some album by him whose overall mood couldn't be labelled as "crazy fun"?

I've heard _Freak Out!_, _We're Only In It For The Money_, _Hot Rats_, _Over-Nite Sensation_ and _Sheik Yerbouti_ so far.


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## starthrower

Zappa didn't write a lot of dark or melancholic type music. But there are a couple pieces on the Sleep Dirt album including Filthy Habits, and the title track. Sad Jane from the LSO album. The synclavier album, Civilization Phase III is another one to explore.


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## Barbebleu

Xisten267 said:


> I'm new to Zappa, and have been hearing his albums all day long. I think that the technical proficiency in his music is amazing, but I miss some changes of mood in it. Can someone please recommend me some album by him whose overall mood couldn't be labelled as "crazy fun"?
> 
> I've heard _Freak Out!_, _We're Only In It For The Money_, _Hot Rats_, _Over-Nite Sensation_ and _Sheik Yerbouti_ so far.


Any of the 'You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore' sets would be good. Also 'The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life' and 'Make A Jazz Noise Here'.


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## Emperor of the North

Hot Rats, Waka/Jawaka, Grand Wazoo, Overnite Sensation, Apostrophe, and my personal favorite, Once Size Fits All. Beyond the brief "Vaudeville Band" period, there isn't much of Zappa's work that I don't like. The quality of his 80s music may not have been on the same level of that of the 70s, but it was still great. The 7-disc Roxy Performances is a must have of Zappa and his best band at the height of their powers. Also, the soundtrack, A Token Of His Extreme, is almost as good.


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## starthrower

Revisiting the Hot Rats Sessions box. So much good stuff!


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## Chibi Ubu

chalkpie said:


> "Put a Motor in Yourself" by FZ, performed by The Ensemble Modern


I know I'm late to the game, but thanks for sharing this!


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## Chibi Ubu

*Anybody paying attention to this thread?*

I first saw Zappa in 1967, and I went to all of his concerts in Utah throughout his touring years. Frank's first instrument was the drums, as was mine!


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## norman bates

Xisten267 said:


> I'm new to Zappa, and have been hearing his albums all day long. I think that the technical proficiency in his music is amazing, but I miss some changes of mood in it. Can someone please recommend me some album by him whose overall mood couldn't be labelled as "crazy fun"?
> 
> I've heard _Freak Out!_, _We're Only In It For The Money_, _Hot Rats_, _Over-Nite Sensation_ and _Sheik Yerbouti_ so far.


We're only in it for the money... crazy fun? That album is actually extremely pessimistic satire in many ways.
Songs like Mom and dad, The idiot ******* son, the chrome plated megaphone... and even where the music sounds happy it's more used like a contrast.
In any case:


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## SanAntone

norman bates said:


> We're only in it for the money... crazy fun? That album is actually extremely pessimistic satire in many ways.
> Songs like Mom and dad, The idiot ******* son, the chrome plated megaphone... and even where the music sounds happy it's more used like a contrast.
> In any case:


Zappa would be unimpressed with TC's nanny software,


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## starthrower

Chibi Ubu said:


> I first saw Zappa in 1967, and I went to all of his concerts in Utah throughout his touring years. Frank's first instrument was the drums, as was mine!


One of the big attractions of FZ's music is the great drummers and percussionists and the music Frank wrote for the instruments. Drums was also my first instrument.


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## Jay

Chibi Ubu said:


> I first saw Zappa in 1967


In the 60s virtually every big city TV station had an "American Bandstand"-style dance party show. In Washington DC it was "Wing Ding," and I first saw the Mothers on it in '66, promoting _Freak Out_; no dance potential, no commercial potential. I saw them "live" for the first time in '69, one of the last gigs of the original Mothers.


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## Chibi Ubu

Jay said:


> In the 60s virtually every big city TV station had an "American Bandstand"-style dance party show. In Washington DC it was "Wing Ding," and I first saw the Mothers on it in '66, promoting _Freak Out_; no dance potential, no commercial potential. I saw them "live" for the first time in '69, one of the last gigs of the original Mothers.


Great fun, wasn't it?


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## Chibi Ubu

starthrower said:


> One of the big attractions of FZ's music is the great drummers and percussionists and the music Frank wrote for the instruments. Drums was also my first instrument.


I couldn't agree with you more!


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## NoCoPilot

starthrower said:


> One of the big attractions of FZ's music is the great drummers and percussionists and the music Frank wrote for the instruments. Drums was also my first instrument.


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## Merl

I always wanted to see Bozzio playing drums live with Zappa but I never did.


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## progmatist

I mentioned on another forum many of Zappa's lyrics would never fly today. The same way, and for the same reason Norman Lear's 70s TV shows like All in Family, and The Jeffersons would never fly today.


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## NoCoPilot

progmatist said:


> I mentioned on another forum many of Zappa's lyrics would never fly today. The same way, and for the same reason Norman Lear's 70s TV shows like All in Family, and The Jeffersons would never fly today.


Times change. Unless you're trying to make America great again....


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## starthrower

NoCoPilot said:


> Times change. Unless you're trying to make America great again....


Not always for the better. If America can't handle All In The Family, or some Zappa lyrics, too bad. In fact I don't think people really have a problem with it. It's manufactured by the politicians and activist groups.


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## Chibi Ubu

*Zappa thoughts*



norman bates said:


> We're only in it for the money... crazy fun? That album is actually extremely pessimistic satire in many ways.


Actually, Frank creates "comedy music" & was a master of selling himself to his followers. Frank called it his "conceptual continuity". He even tells us so.

Does that mean that all Zappa followers are pessimistic? Or did Frank (and his followers) like to engage in oppositional behavior?  :lol:


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## Vronsky

I didn't know that Frank Zappa was guest at Miami Vice as a drug dealer named Mario Fuente...


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## NoCoPilot

Hah! That's casting against character!


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## starthrower

> I didn't know that Frank Zappa was guest at Miami Vice as a drug dealer named Mario Fuente.


He had the look for playing villains but unfortunately his acting skills were embarrassingly bad. Don Johnson was an old friend and fan of FZ's music which is why Frank ended up doing the show.


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## Chibi Ubu

*Aw heck, I'm gonna post a few favorite Zappa tunes when I am in the mood*

*FRANK ZAPPA - COSMIK DEBRIS*






My memory says I saw this musician line-up do this live at the time. I remember seeing Duke, Ponty, Underwood, and Humphreys, and Fowler together at The Terrace Ballroom 

I give it 5 of 5 stars on the Chibi Meter


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## starthrower

BBC Radio 3 Frank Zappa Total Immersion. This radio special produced from live concerts will be available temporarily. The music of Zappa and his modern classical influences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0015cz4


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## Malx

Merl said:


> I always wanted to see Bozzio playing drums live with Zappa but I never did.


I hate to do this to you - I had the pleasure of seeing Bozzio playing at the Playhouse Edinburgh 14th February 1977.

Malx


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## Chibi Ubu

Malx said:


> I hate to do this to you - I had the pleasure of seeing Bozzio playing at the Playhouse Edinburgh 14th February 1977.
> 
> Malx


I have seen Bozzio 3 times that I can fully recall, but I don't have any specific concert memory where Terry played with Zappa. I saw all of Zappa's shows in Utah over the years, however. I know I remember Chad Wackerman with Zappa a few times.

Terry Bozzio and Pat Mastelotto did a double percussion concert together at the *One World Theater* in Austin. Terry also did Punky Whips as a guest at a *ZPZ* concert in Houston. Most recently, I saw Terry as a soloist/composer in his concert at the *Musical Instrument Museum* in Phoenix a few years ago.


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## SearsPoncho

Vronsky said:


> I didn't know that Frank Zappa was guest at Miami Vice as a drug dealer named Mario Fuente...


That episode combined two of my greatest loves: Zappa and Miami Vice. If you're a Miami Vice hater, all I can say is you would understand the greatness of the show if you drove down A1A/Collins Ave. in South Beach, after midnight, listening to "In the Air Tonight" during a night of morally and possibly legally questionable behavior. Zappa managed to cram a ton of notes and chords in a few minutes. Miami Vice might have had 3 complete sentences of discernible dialogue in 1 hour. When opposing worlds collide in a Ferrari, magic occurs.

I'm also a fan of Bozzio's drumming. In addition to Zappa, there's Jeff Beck's Guitar Shop. As for Zappa's drummers (and percussion), I always liked Chester Thompson and, of course, Ruth Underwood. "On Ruth, on Ruth."


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## starthrower




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## NoCoPilot

SearsPoncho said:


> When opposing worlds collide in a Ferrari, magic occurs.


 I want that on a tee-shirt.


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## Captainnumber36

I'm not huge on Zappa. His pop music is drowned is nonsensical silly lyrics which don't do it for me. I don't find him to be all that good of a guitarist or composer.


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## SearsPoncho

By the way, Don Johnson and Zappa have another connection. Zappa's son played guitar on Don's immortal song "Heartbeat." 

Don Johnson - Heartbeat (Video) - YouTube


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## NoCoPilot

SearsPoncho said:


> By the way, Don Johnson and Zappa have another connection. Zappa's son played guitar on Don's immortal song "Heartbeat."


Don't forget Moon's babysitter, Pamela Des Barre, dated Johnson in the 1970s.


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## Forster

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm not huge on Zappa. His pop music is drowned is nonsensical silly lyrics which don't do it for me. I don't find him to be all that good of a guitarist or composer.


You're not huge....but are you small, or not at all?


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## Chibi Ubu

*Suite from Joe's Garage*


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## Varick

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm not huge on Zappa. His pop music is drowned is nonsensical silly lyrics which don't do it for me. I don't find him to be all that good of a guitarist or composer.


I've always put Zappa's music in one of three categories:

1. Brilliant.
2. Comical (often clever)
3. Absolute garbage.

I don't enjoy all of his stuff, but he has composed some brilliant things in his time and I couldn't disagree more about this guitar playing. I believe he is one of the most underrated guitarist in R&R. His underrating is up their with the likes of Alex Lifeson. I challenge you to listen to Apostrophe, Stink-Foot, I am The Slime (live version), & Zomby Woof (Live version), then come back to me and say he isn't all that good of a guitarist. You may not like him or his music, that's fine, but to deny his musical ability lacks all objectivity.

V


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## pianozach

Varick said:


> I've always put Zappa's music in one of three categories:
> 
> 1. Brilliant.
> 2. Comical (often clever)
> 3. Absolute garbage.
> 
> I don't enjoy all of his stuff, but he has composed some brilliant things in his time and I couldn't disagree more about this guitar playing. I believe he is one of the most underrated guitarist in R&R. His underrating is up their with the likes of Alex Lifeson. I challenge you to listen to Apostrophe, Stink-Foot, I am The Slime (live version), & Zomby Woof (Live version), then come back to me and say he isn't all that good of a guitarist. You may not like him or his music, that's fine, but to deny his musical ability lacks all objectivity.
> 
> V


This is why I never purchased *Zappa* albums, back before you could preview them on the internet: You never really knew what sort of Zappa you were going to get when you bought a Zappa album. I just didn't see the point in spending ten bucks on an album where it's a blind taste test, like a box of *Bertie Bott's *_*Every Flavour Beans*: _Will it be something tasty, or earwax flavor?

I have only one Zappa album in my digital library; *Hot Rats*.


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## SanAntone

At one time in my life, the late-'70s, I had the complete recordings of Frank Zappa. I very much enjoyed them all.


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## starthrower

Not knowing what's going to be on the album was part of the fun. The internet killed all that. But it was an exciting time in the 1980s when FZ's back catalog began reappearing on CD. I wouldn't describe any of it as absolute garbage. I embraced it all from low brow rock sleaze to complex orchestral scores. There was a point to everything he did even if he pretended that he believed everything in life is an absurdity.


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## Jay

pianozach said:


> I have only one Zappa album in my digital library; *Hot Rats*.


You'd probably find Grand Wazoo and Waka Jawaka "tasty."


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## Forster

SanAntone said:


> At one time in my life, the late-'70s, I had the complete recordings of Frank Zappa. I very much enjoyed them all.


So, you don't have anything post late-70s?


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## Forster

Guest said:


> _Uncle Meat_, _Burnt Weeny Sandwich_ and _We're Only in it for the Money_ are my three favourites, though I also have _Tinseltown Rebellion._ I liked the episodic nature of some of the writing; the alternately crazy, rude, challenging lyrics; the cut and paste montages; the use of percussion and treated vocals...
> 
> Once he became serious and wrote 'proper' music with too much guitar, I must say I lost interest. I've turned prude too, and his endless satire on attitudes to sex became tiresome. Having said that, I recently recorded a concert off the TV - _The Torture Never Sleep_ - and was very impressed at the musicianship again.
> 
> He's not constantly on my 'turntable', but I'll not be getting rid of my CDs any time soon.


A good post is worth repeating...he says, misquoting Universal Studios.


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## Bone

I’m probably lucky: my first exposure to Zappa was “The Yellow Shark.” I was floored! ‘Course I dig his rock stuff, too, but I absolutely adore his classical side. “G Spot Tornado” and “Outrage At Valdez” are standout tracks.


----------

