# Bonus Round: Robert Le Diable: Scotto, Damrau, Oropesa



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Azol requested this round.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I really like the tempo of the Scotto version and of all the versions we have heard so far this one brings out Meyerbeer's medievalism the best. I find it quite touching, however, I can't understand a word Scotto is singing and there is too much potato in the mouth here.

Damrau is much easier to follow, even if her voice isn't as distinctive as Scotto's. The problem I have with this aria is that it sounds as though it was written for the same singer as first played Marguerite in Les Huguenots. (I will have to check that.) Therefore, the only singer I can imagine doing this justice is Sutherland.

At least with Lisette we get someone who has sung the role of Marguerite in Huguenots and whilst this is a coloratura role (despite this aria not requiring much in the way of agility, other parts of the role do), I prefer a bigger sound (hence my desire to hear Sutherland - I don't think she recorded this particular aria though). That said, I'm going to vote for Oropesa. She manages a plaintive, yet vibrant sound that expresses the emotions of this plain lament.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I really like the tempo of the Scotto version and of all the versions we have heard so far this one brings out Meyerbeer's medievalism the best. I find it quite touching, however, I can't understand a word Scotto is singing and there is too much potato in the mouth here.
> 
> Damrau is much easier to follow, even if her voice isn't as distinctive as Scotto's. The problem I have with this aria is that it sounds as though it was written for the same singer as first played Marguerite in Les Huguenots. (I will have to check that.) Therefore, the only singer I can imagine doing this justice is Sutherland.
> 
> ...


Dame Joan recorded another aria from this opera that has some of the most stupefying coloratura pyrotechnics I have ever heard . It is on the French Opera Gala, which the Bonynges think is her best album. I think a bigger voice can make more of arias from this opera. 
In general I think French coloratura arias are more difficult in general than the Italian ones although the Italians go for higher longer high notes which you might notice more.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Even if a combination of sour notes, slithers up the scale and high notes whittled down to pianissimi are not my cup o'tea, Renata Scotto manages to make much of this aria with her arsenal of canny vocalism, dramatic puissance and remarkable musicianship. She sings it in her native language and all the better for it.

Diana Damrau sings it in French, but her voice sounds frayed and sometimes shredded on high; I've read that she has had some vocal troubles over the years. Her voice can't take much pressure, making difficult to sing _forte_ without sounding ugly and stressed.

Lisette Oropessa, whom I hadn't heard before, sings it with piano accompaniment, a detriment for comparison against an orchestral one. I think she does a very good job, even if her voice is not very individual and tone sounds grainy on occasion. She has nice _pianissimi_ and makes very nice _diminuendi_.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Though I love her voice, I had to give demerits for no trill to Scotto and I also felt that she was pushing the high note which sounded a bit problematic for me. The natural sometimes shrill sound of her voice compared to the others made me think hers was done a bit later in her career.
Although I liked Damrau's there didn't seem to be enough feeling coming through the way Oropesa's was. Perhaps it was because it was in French. 
Oropesa sounded younger and had a lovely trill and simple high note without forcing anything for show, so, process of elimination and considering these 3 only, my vote goes to Oropesa.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Dame Joan recorded another aria from this opera that has some of the most stupefying coloratura pyrotechnics I have ever heard . It is on the French Opera Gala, which the Bonynges think is her best album. I think a bigger voice can make more of arias from this opera.
> In general I think French coloratura arias are more difficult in general than the Italian ones although the Italians go for higher longer high notes which you might notice more.


Yes, that is the other aria that the same character has (Isabelle). Interestingly, the soprano who first sang the Dame Joan role in Huguenots wasn't the first Isabelle, but was rather the other soprano role in Robert, Alice. I found that interesting.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Scotto is an intelligent and expressive singer whose work I admire. Her tone is reedy and plaintive, which pushes her emotional spectrum toward the tragic, even the morbid. Those qualities, and the slow tempo here - and maybe even the substitution of (mostly incomprehensible) Italian for French - give the performance a distinctive quality I have to adjust to and accept on its own terms. Not knowing the opera as a whole possibly makes that easier. I enjoyed the performance. 

Damrau's voice lacks weight and core, her vibrato is annoying, and the interpretation of this seems sincere but a bit unformed. I do appreciate her taking the high option at the climax (which Scoitto was wise not to attempt), but Sills does it (and everything else) better.

Oropesa is really quite good; the aria is well-sung and expressive, and the music sounds basically the way I think it should. The voice isn't very individual, though - a lovely sound, but not one I could pick out in a lineup. I value distinctiveness in both vocal timbre and interpretation, and that compels me to choose Scotto out of the three singers offered here.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

For me it's a toss up between Scotto and Oropesa. Damrau didn't make much impression at all.
This isn't late Scotto. It was recorded at a performance at the Maggio Musicale Fiorentino in 1968. As usual, the voice doesn't always fall easily on the ear, but the way she shapes the phrases, her diminuendi and the way she increases intensity at the repeat of the big tune bespeak a wonderfully musical artist. 
Oropesa, who was the best thing in Covent Garden's recent *Rigoletto* is also very fine and sings the aria in French. She has a prettier, if less individual, voice and also phrases beautifully. However her performance lacked the specificity and drama Scotto brought to it, so I'm going against the prevailing trend and voting for Scotto.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

PS. I was obviously making my choice at the same time as Woodduck. Unsurprisingly we seem to agree.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't remember ever hearing this aria before the first contest and now I can't get the tune out of my head. Oddly enough the voice I keep hearing in my head is Scotto's, so I guess that tells you something.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't remember ever hearing this aria before the first contest and now I can't get the tune out of my head. Oddly enough the voice I keep hearing in my head is Scotto's, so I guess that tells you something.


I do recall having heard this aria before, long ago. I think it may have been the Sills recording. In any case, I too have been battling a "grace, grace" earworm, though in my case it's Sills I tend to hear, perhaps in part because Scotto isn't singing it in French and I can't recall the Italian word she does sing.

I don't know about others here, but I'm annoyingly susceptible to earworms, to the point where I think I may be slightly autistic (there are other indicators as well). I need only spend a few minutes in a store to have some brief phrase of a usually dreadful pop song hounding me until I replace it deliberately with some other bit of (better) music. That's the only technique I've come up with for banishing the worm.

"Grace" is playing on the edge of my mind as I write. A pox on it!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I do recall having heard this aria before, long ago. I think it may have been the Sills recording. In any case, I too have been battling a "grace, grace" earworm, though in my case it's Sills I tend to hear, perhaps in part because Scotto isn't singing it in French and I can't recall the Italian word she does sing.
> 
> I don't know about others here, but I'm annoyingly susceptible to earworms, to the point where I think I may be slightly autistic (there are other indicators as well). I need only spend a few minutes in a store to have some brief phrase of a usually dreadful pop song hounding me until I replace it deliberately with some other bit of (better) music. That's the only technique I've come up with for banishing the worm.
> 
> "Grace" is playing on the edge of my mind as I write. A pox on it!


Es gibt ein reich was my earworm for years.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I do recall having heard this aria before, long ago. I think it may have been the Sills recording. In any case, I too have been battling a "grace, grace" earworm, though in my case it's Sills I tend to hear, perhaps in part because Scotto isn't singing it in French and I can't recall the Italian word she does sing.
> 
> I don't know about others here, but I'm annoyingly susceptible to earworms, to the point where I think I may be slightly autistic (there are other indicators as well). I need only spend a few minutes in a store to have some brief phrase of a usually dreadful pop song hounding me until I replace it deliberately with some other bit of (better) music. That's the only technique I've come up with for banishing the worm.
> 
> "Grace" is playing on the edge of my mind as I write. A pox on it!


I often find my earworms don't make themselves known to me until days after I actualy heard something, but once they do they continue to go round and round in my head for ages.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

The case with Scotto here is that she goes for the drama and that's what really makes such a monstrosity of a Grand Opera style to come to life. She manages to turn this piece into a thriller of what happens next. There is no action going on in this scene but Scotto so masterfully builds it up I get the impression it really moves at a brisk pace even if her performance is actually the slowest.
Does it work with Damrau? Nope, it's quite generic and the aggressive manner of attacking those high notes is just plain wrong. In the context of a super-long opera filled with virtuoso vocal scoring and many high tessitura passages it would only add to the boredom.
Oropesa is all elegance and style and as a concert piece it works great. A perfect earworm indeed! But in the context of the whole opera, Scotto is the winner.
Thanks for setting up this round, Seattleoperafan!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Azol said:


> The case with Scotto here is that she goes for the drama and that's what really makes such a monstrosity of a Grand Opera style to come to life. She manages to turn this piece into a thriller of what happens next. There is no action going on in this scene but Scotto so masterfully builds it up I get the impression it really moves at a brisk pace even if her performance is actually the slowest.
> Does it work with Damrau? Nope, it's quite generic and the aggressive manner of attacking those high notes is just plain wrong. In the context of a super-long opera filled with virtuoso vocal scoring and many high tessitura passages it would only add to the boredom.
> Oropesa is all elegance and style and as a concert piece it works great. A perfect earworm indeed! But in the context of the whole opera, Scotto is the winner.
> Thanks for setting up this round, Seattleoperafan!


Thanks for suggesting it. People enjoyed it.


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