# Alexander Scriabin



## ErFurtwanglert

*Al Scriabin*

A great Russian who shares my first name. I like Vers la Flamme and most of his preludes, but need to hear more.


----------



## ErFurtwanglert

Just picked up Al's Piano Concerto, as well as his Le Poème de l'extase...great stuff!!!


----------



## Edward Elgar

I love his piano concerto, also his Le Poème de l'extase and Prometheus. 

It's interesting that Scriabin was in the same composition class as Rachmaninov in the Moscow Conservatory. You can hear the similarities in the piano concerto, but what makes me chuckle is the super-long melody that never seems to resolve in the 1st mvt., wheras Rach tries to make more use of melodic fragments.

It's cool how he used his synesthesia as a basis for new compositions. Some concerts of his are accompanied visually by the respective colours that old Scrabbers saw when he heard the notes. Even though it seems an abstract way to compose, the results are quite conventional. When I'm modulating up and down the circle of 5ths I can't see colour but I can understand that related keys have similar flavours (if you get me!).

Poor fellow died of a boil on his lip. An embarrasing way to go for someone who expressed desires of world domination! The scary thing is that if he had survived, his music may well have dominated the world stage as being a pusher of modernism like Schoenberg (just a bit more popular perhaps).


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

ErFurtwanglert said:


> Just picked up Al's Piano Concerto, as well as his Le Poème de l'extase...great stuff!!!


What do you like if him?


----------



## Habib

*Underwhelmed by Scriabin*

I've got Mehta's recording of Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy and I'm really underwhelmed by it. This and some of his solo piano works I have heard just sound like re-hashed Debussy. I haven't heard his piano concerto, maybe that is better. But anyway, sorry Alex, you weren't the best thing since Beethoven!


----------



## JTech82

Scriabin was a pretty good composer. I have the "Complete Symphonies" 3-disc set on Decca and it's not bad at all. Vladimir Ashkenazy is the conductor on this set with Berlin German Symphony. He's not that bad of a composer, but I would prefer to listen to Sibelius, Nielsen, Mahler, Bruckner, Bartok, Stravinsky, Dvorak, Schubert, and Prokofiev any time of the day instead of Scriabin.


----------



## species motrix

Scriabin is wonderful. Firstly, I'd personally recommend the piano works over the orchestral works (that's just me, though, I realize). Secondly, for the most real, unearthly Scriabin experience, listen to the recordings of the sonatas made by the son-in-law he never met, Sofronitsky. 

Regarding Scriabin's synesthesia, it is unlikely that he literally experienced this... his synesthetic associations use a direct correspondence of the color wheel with the circle of fifths, with C at red. The color associations made by real synesthetes are usually much more random. Also, remember that Scriabin was heavily influenced by the Symbolist movement, which emphasized the blending of sensory perceptions in this sort of manner. 

On top being all around dandy to listen to, Scriabin's system of harmony as it evolved was complex and interesting, a "dual modality" with two tonics, and was enigmatic to the point that it was not fully decoded until around 50 years after he died.


----------



## Lang

I love the titles; unfortunately I don't find the music itself so exciting.


----------



## Weston

Lang said:


> I love the titles; unfortunately I don't find the music itself so exciting.


Me neither. It just doesn't speak to me I'm afraid. I've sometimes wondered what I'm supposed to be experiencing / feeling in it. I haven't given up on it yet, but I am close.


----------



## ecg_fa

I like Scriabin's piano music a lot-- esp. solo stuff. Horowitz had great recording 
of it & recently I enjoy a lot one by young pianist Alexander Melnikov on Harmonia 
Mundi (release '06). There's an interesting 'flame like' or flickering quality to
that music that really appeals to me. Ed


----------



## Herzeleide

I absolutely adore piano sonatas 6 - 10. Pure, unalloyed genius. Some of the most sensuous, magical and _sui generis_ music I've ever heard. It's like it comes from another planet. A planet of gorgeous, psychotropic, psychedelia.


----------



## handlebar

The Etude Op2 #1 is my all time favourite piece and the piano concerto a close second. Horowitz is the consummate best in this piece and nobody else comes close.
The PC sounds best by Segerstam and Pontinen on BIS followed by Solomon's recording.

Jim


----------



## Lisztfreak

I've heard only the Piano Sonatas (all of them, Roberto Szidon playing) and Prometheus. A lot of this music, as already put above, doesn't speak to me. I understand the other-world thing about the later sonatas, however. They're atonal, but pleasantly atonal. Spicy, I'd say, and almost impressionistic in how they float around.

I prefer those more romantic, early ones, though, even when they get somewhat too flamboyant. That's the Lisztfreak in me!


----------



## Bach

I just listened to Prometheus twice in a row and sweet christ, that is music directly from God. Unbelievable genius - the final chord is actually a finer sensation than orgasm - and his orchestration is easily match for Debussy, Ravel and Strauss. I'm now listening to Herzeliede's piano sonata recommendations.


----------



## Air

I agree Horowitz's recordings of Scriabin does him much justice but I also like Sofronitsky's and Richter's (Sorry to always bring his name up, but there's nothing I've heard from him that I don't like, not even his Bach). Ashkenazy also excels here.

I love how the titles of Scriabin's works have a very teenage mood swing to them: Pleasure and emoness.  

Examples of emoness (But maybe has to do with the color organ thingy): "Towards the flame", "Prometheus: The Poem of Fire" (even though the end seems to be the end of the emoness and the beginning of the ecstasy), "White Mass", and "Black Mass" (which he didn't give, but approved of.) Also markings in his music such as "poisonously" and "satanically."

Examples of pleasure: "Poem of Ecstacy (gosh, I can't spell this word)", "Desire", "Danced Caress", "Sensual Delights", and markings like "with a chaste ardor." lol

I've been listening to a lot of Scriabin today, and I like most:

Fantasie, Op. 28 (reminds me of Chopin's first ballade... I don't know why)
Etude Op. 42 # 5
Sonata No. 5
Sonata No. 9
Sonata No. 10
Piano Concerto
Prometheus: The Poem of Fire
Mysterium (unfinished)

By the way, I have a friend who's related closely to Scriabin. He's an incredible pianist.


----------



## Dim7

Herzeleide said:


> I absolutely adore piano sonatas 6 - 10. Pure, unalloyed genius. Some of the most sensuous, magical and _sui generis_ music I've ever heard. It's like it comes from another planet. A planet of gorgeous, psychotropic, psychedelia.


Why did you exclude the fifth? It's in his mature "atonal" style and it is one of the best of late scriabin piano sonatas.

Though I like the piano sonatas also, Scriabin should be resurrected so that he could compose more orchestral pieces. Poem of ecstacy is one of my favourite orchestral pieces, probably in the top 5, Prometheus is also good and third symphony is nice though it's not really in Scriabin's trademark lovely bizarre style. He could actually compose exciting and emotional kind of atonal music, if his music counts as "atonal".


----------



## handlebar

Scriabin could have been another Rachmaninov if he'd have lived long enough to move to America IMHO. He still would have maintained his sharp and gritty edge no doubt.
Listening to his earlier tonal works I hear that Russian romanticism.

I remember well trying to learn the Etude opus 2 #1. It will be forever ingrained in my mind and fingers.

Jim


----------



## Mr Chewie

The piano sonatas and Prometheus are excellent. Prometheus reminds me of Stravinsky, in that it's so well orchestrated, you don't notice the dissonance.


----------



## schwartzy

If there is one composer's piano works I'd love to play properly, it is Scriabin's. The late Sonatas are just sublime, and for a tightly constructed hugely powerful miniature, just check out his 5-minute Vers La Flamme - an eccentric little masterpiece of the entire piano reperetoire.


----------



## Lukecash12

Habib said:


> I've got Mehta's recording of Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy and I'm really underwhelmed by it. This and some of his solo piano works I have heard just sound like re-hashed Debussy. I haven't heard his piano concerto, maybe that is better. But anyway, sorry Alex, you weren't the best thing since Beethoven!


Sofronitzky, Igor Zhukov, Valeri Kastelsky, Pogorelich, Richter, Hamelin, Ashkenazy, Coombs, Giesking, Mark Farago, einberg, Scriabin himself, and Prokofeiv have made (in my opinion) definitive recordings of Scriabin's works.

There is much more than just his Poem of Ecstasy, so I imagine you'll be overwhelmed by the colorful variety in his works.


----------



## Eusebius12

Scriabin's music is heady, intoxicating, overwhelming.

His greatest piece is one of his shortest, the Etude in D# Minor. Before you can form a true judgement on Scriabin's work, you must hear that played by Horowitz. Throughout the sonatas, preludes and etudes you get gems of this kind (although as I said this particular piece is the finest of them). They are often overloaded with passion and a kind of claustrophobic asphyxia. The symphonies and Prometheus are extraordinary works too, but Scriabin was a pianist and a brilliant keyboard composer, the successor to Chopin in one sense(certainly I would say no one has come closer to the Polish composer's style). 

Scriabin is as alike to Debussy as Munch is to Monet, although both composers did make use of the whole tone scale.


----------



## TWhite

I have to admit that the two works Scriabine wrote for piano, left hand, helped save my career about 30 years ago when my right hand was crippled with Carpal Tunnel disease. To keep myself going while undergoing surgery and therapy, I worked on the Prelude and Nocturne for Left Hand among some other piano repertoire designed especially for one hand, and by the time my right hand was ready to go again, I had the two Scriabine firmly in my repertoire. I kept them for quite a few years, as I liked them very much. I still do. I credit them with helping to save my performing career.

But I have to be honest, most of the rest of Scriabine is just out of my 'frame of reference'. I know that they're considered the 'ultimate' in passionate Post-Romanticism by a lot of my contemporaries, but I find their 'ecstasies' to be far too cerebral and confusing for me. Quite frankly, I just don't care for him at all. 

However, I still appreciate him for those two left-hand pieces.

Tom


----------



## PoliteNewYorker

Anybody familiar with Sofronitsky's interperatations? I find them to be the finest Scriabin recorded, and better than even Horowitz. 
There's a recording of him playing the Black Mass on youtube somewhere.


----------



## Aramis

> even Horowitz.


*Even* Horowitz - HO HO HO...

I've heard Scriabin by Sofronitsky, majority of my Scriabin piano sonatas is played by him.


----------



## Air

Aramis said:


> *Even* Horowitz - HO HO HO...
> 
> I've heard Scriabin by Sofronitsky, majority of my Scriabin piano sonatas is played by him.


Yes, Sofronitsky is unmatched in this repertoire.

Something strange I find is that (for me) Horowitz isn't _the_ pianist for any single composer - Rachmaninov, Schumann, and Liszt being the closest, but there are others who I definitely like more. I don't really buy his approach to Clementi and Scarlatti - too romantic for my tastes - not to mention that there are more than a handful of pianists that provide stiff competition to his repertoire of only half a dozen sonatas each.

He's still a great pianist, but I'm not to one to see Karajan, Heifetz, Horowitz, Rostropovich, Bernstein, Callas, Pavarotti, and Casals on a throne...

AND BOW DOWN IN REVERENCE.


----------



## Sebastien Melmoth

> I absolutely adore piano sonatas 6 - 10. Pure, unalloyed genius. Some of the most sensuous, magical and sui generis music I've ever heard. It's like it comes from another planet. A planet of gorgeous, psychotropic, psychedelia.


Word......


----------



## Aramis

What's the best recording of his symphonies?


----------



## emiellucifuge

handlebar said:


> Scriabin could have been another Rachmaninov if he'd have lived long enough to move to America IMHO. He still would have maintained his sharp and gritty edge no doubt.
> Listening to his earlier tonal works I hear that Russian romanticism.


I read somewhere that he would have been the first 'schoenberg' if he had lived another ten years.

Recently witnessed the Poem of Ecstasy in concert with the Concertgebouw under Mikhail Pletnev. THAT was an experience!


----------



## joen_cph

> What's the best recording of his symphonies?


Would suggest Svetlanov and Muti, whereas Inbal and Ashkenazy are less involved, to my ears. Golovanov is extremely temperamental, but the old sound and somewhat incoherent playing style is no doubt too much for some listeners and surely they shouldn´t be the only recordings to have. 
There are some good recordings of the piano concerto on you-tube - Bashkirov´s especially, I think.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

I think his very best are his piano compositions, his technique was unique....His opus 74 is incredible.

Th guy is diying in every note...you need an excellent interpretation...they say that this one is the best...but disappeared....If you have it sale it to me!

Maria Lettberg.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W4E3OS/ref=oss_product

Martin


----------



## Air

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Th guy is diying in every note...you need an excellent interpretation...they say that this one is the best...


And not Sofronitsky?


----------



## tahnak

*Le Poeme du Feu*



Bach said:


> I just listened to Prometheus twice in a row and sweet christ, that is music directly from God. Unbelievable genius - the final chord is actually a finer sensation than orgasm - and his orchestration is easily match for Debussy, Ravel and Strauss. I'm now listening to Herzeliede's piano sonata recommendations.


Yes. I have heard it twice today. I went back to it. I heard the Martha Argerich/Berlin/Abbado version though I am posting below the Vladimir Ashkenazy version for its brilliant visuals.










Aleksandr Scriabin's Le Poeme du Feu - Prometheus is a great impressionistic piece of music creation. He uses fourth-based harmonies. This composition was a hit when it was first premiered on 2nd March 1911 with Scriabin as the soloist in Moskva with Serge Koussevitzky conducting. Scriabin died early at the age of 43 in 1915. This work would have made Debussy, Ravel and Glazunov proud. 
The work's harmonic structure is evolved from a tonal centre in a six-note complex of different fourths (c f# Bb e a d). Here, the sound makes you feel that space has become time. For Scriabin, the theft of fire was central to the Prometheus myth. This symphonic poem with a piano accompaniment and choir is representative of Prometheus with the central theme narrated by the trumpets. The music describes the flickering and shimmering permutations of fire through piano and woodwinds with tremolos on the strings. Scriabin felt that Prometheus is the bringer of light and through sound and colour he reaches for the stars themselves as aptly showed in these visuals.


----------



## Comus

I like Mutti's interpretation of Prometheus the best. In the end (in the first climax if you know what I mean) the colors jump right out.

I have the Ashkenazy (complete orchestral works; it's like $9) and it's disappointing. I mean Prometheus. I rather enjoyed his interpretation of the 3rd; however.

As for Scriabin's piano works, he's certainly my favorite pianist-composer. The later works are his best, but enough about those. The 2nd and 3rd sonatas have something I wish there was more of in Romantic piano music, particularly the Presto of the 2nd if you can find a recording where they don't play it so fast the notes blur together. I'll have to get back with the pianist on my recording. It's the best I've ever heard.


----------



## Aramis

I wanted to seek out already existing thread about him but there are only those devoted to particular aspects of his music and one general but with "Al" instead of full name so I'm making new thread, finally with proper title, let is serve hundred years and more.

I won't write about the composer. I was lookking for other threads to write about his Piano Concerto in F.

I don't know why it's not as famous as Rachmaninoff's 3rd and 2nd or Tchaikovsky's 1st. It's as beautiful as these and, argueably, more accomplished (formally and stuff).

It also has little of sentimentality, it's all wet of I DON'T KNOW THIS WORD IN ENGLISH

It probably doesn't exist in english.

It's full of UNIESIENIE

Exultation, a frenzy, wild amok, ecstasy and rapture which you won't find in other concertos mentioned above, all flavored with influence of Chopin's poetry. Scriabin was huge Chopin fan back then but the work is perhaps more original than Rachmaninoff's concertos:

Rachmaninoff = Tchaikovsky + Rachmaninoff
Scriabin = Chopin + Tchaikovsky + Scriabin

AN EXPLOSIVE MIX

Yes indeed.

I recommend this recording:










The lucid-water sound of piano is perfect for extatic chords, the playing is great, orchestra sounds great, all well balanced and stuff.

Get it. Do it. Do it now. I said do it. Do it.


----------



## regressivetransphobe

I really like everything I've heard of Scriabin. He exudes danger and mysticism, and was arguably Modern before Modern was a thing.


----------



## Sofronitsky

I like Scriabin's piano concerto, but did not like the stomping on Mr. Rachmaninoff  In my opinion, the Scriabin concerto isn't worth half as much as Rachmaninoff's 3rd.


----------



## Couchie

I have always found this piece irresistibly beautiful and am at a total loss as to why most pianists ignore it.

I recommend this recording (unfortunately comes with the Tchaik 1 to add yet another to your collection).


----------



## Sid James

The only piece I own (or have owned) by Scriabin is the _Poem of Ecstasy_ (a performance on the Australian Eloquence label, conducted by Zubin Mehta). At first, I thought it was kind of boring, but now I like it a lot (in fact, I'll probably go & listen to it tonight). Love it's searching quality, it's tonal vagueness (until the very end, when we get Scriabin's trademark "bright red" C Major), its yearning, eroticism, mysticism, all of that. Some of the women in this guy's life bloated his ego quite a bit, saying he was the biggest thing since Beethoven, but whatever they said, Scriabin was bloody good, imo!...


----------



## Sofronitsky

Sid James said:


> The only piece I own (or have owned) by Scriabin is the _Poem of Ecstasy_ (a performance on the Australian Eloquence label, conducted by Zubin Mehta). At first, I thought it was kind of boring, but now I like it a lot (in fact, I'll probably go & listen to it tonight). Love it's searching quality, it's tonal vagueness (until the very end, when we get Scriabin's trademark "bright red" C Major), its yearning, eroticism, mysticism, all of that. *Some of the women in this guy's life bloated his ego quite a bit*, saying he was the biggest thing since Beethoven, but whatever they said, Scriabin was bloody good, imo!...


Considering by the end of his life he thought he was Christ, I think maybe it wasn't just women bloating his ego.


----------



## Aramis

Sofronitsky said:


> I like Scriabin's piano concerto, but did not like the stomping on Mr. Rachmaninoff  In my opinion, the Scriabin concerto isn't worth half as much as Rachmaninoff's 3rd.


There was no stomping, I respect Rachmaninoff and love his music but I think Scriabin's concerto overshadows Rachmaninoff's two famous pearls in many aspects and personally I find more depth in it, overally - Rachmaninoff has 3 or 4 extatic culimations but in Scriabin's you may find something special almost at every step while Rachmaninoff has a lot of hole-fillers, disappointing after you get to know the concerto well. Perhaps you will change your mind in time, like I did. Year or two ago I would put Rachmaninoff's concertos over Scriabin without hesitation but now I'm not so sure anymore.



Couchie said:


> I have always found this piece irresistibly beautiful and am at a total loss as to why most pianists ignore it.
> 
> I recommend this recording (unfortunately comes with the Tchaik 1 to add yet another to your collection).


I'll look into this recording and share thoughts later (perhaps even today).


----------



## Aramis

The Demodenko recording is brilliant but my speakers must be terrible because I hear most of orchestra from the right speaker - what a weird listening. I hope it's really fault of my speakers, not the recording itself. Otherwise it would be much worse than it could be if recorded propely. But I suppose it's very unlikely, it's just my bad equipment for sure.


----------



## Lukecash12

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=PL750BEBAADBED3A1D

There are 142 videos in the play list, and it should excite Scriabin fans to see that there are recordings from Valeri Kastelsky, Vladimir Sofronitsky, Richter, Feinberg, Dmitri Bashkirov, Pogorelich, Horowitz (some of the good recordings!), Igor Zhukov, and Scriabin himself. The Hamelin recording of his first sonata, Op. 6 you might be surprised with.



> *Alexander Nikolayevich Skriabin, the noted Russian composer, was born on Christmas Day and died at Eastertide - according to Western-style calendrical reckoning, 7 January 1872 14 April, 1915. No one was more famous during his lifetime, and few were more quickly ignored after his death. Although he was never absent from the mainstream of Russian music, the outside world neglected him until recently. Today, there is worldwide resurgence of interest in his music and ideas. Skriabin wrote five symphonies, including the Divine Poem (1903), the Poem of Ecstasy (1907), and the Poem of Fire or Prometheus (1909). His ten piano sonatas are staples of many pianists repertoire, with the Fifth being perhaps the most popular, while the Seventh (White Mass) and Ninth (Black Mass) follow close. Vladimir Horowitz in his late sixties began playing the Tenth, and it remains today in vogue among more daring virtuosi. Skriabins style, like Beethoven and Schönberg and unlike Mozart or Brahms, changed enormously as he progressed. The early pieces are romantic, fresh and easily accessible, while his later compositions explore harmonys further reaches. It is thought by scholars, that had Skriabin lived beyond his brief 43 years, he would have preceded the Austrian school of duodecaphony, and Moscow would have become the center of atonality. Immediately upon Skriabins sudden death, Sergei Rachmaninoff toured Russia in a series of all-Skriabin recitals. It was the first time he played music other than his own in public. In those days Skriabin was known as a pianist and Rachmaninoff was considered only as a composer. Skriabin, thus, was posthumously responsible for his friend and classmates later pianistic career in Europe and America. Skriabins thought processes were immensely complicated, even tinged with solipsism. "I am God," he once wrote in one of his secret philosophical journals. He embraced Helen Blavatskys Theosophy. In London he visited the room in which Mme. Blavatsky died. Skriabin considered his last music to be fragments of an immense piece to be called Mysterium. This seven-day-long megawork would be performed at the foothills of the Himalayas in India, after which the world would dissolve in bliss. Bells suspended from clouds would summon spectators. Sunrises would be preludes and sunsets codas. Flames would erupt in shafts of light and sheets of fire. Perfumes appropriate to the music would change and pervade the air. At the time of his death, Skriabin left 72 orchestral-size pages of sketches for a preliminary work Prefatory Action, intended to "prepare" the world for the apocalyptic ultimate masterpiece. Alexander Nemtin, the Russian composer, assembled those jottings and co-created the Prefatory Action. Its three vast movements have been performed with great acclaim under conductors Cyril Kondrashin in Moscow and Vladimir Ashkenazy in Berlin with Alexei Lubimov at the piano.*


----------



## mmsbls

I love Scriabin's Piano Concerto and place it above all the other works of his that I have heard. I have Ashkenazy playing the concerto, but I have not heard any other versions.










This CD comes with Le Poème de l'extase and Symphony No. 5 in F sharp major for piano, organ, chorus & orchestra ("Prometheus, Poem of Fire") so it's a pretty good introduction to his works. I'm not sure why Le Poeme and Prometheus are called symphonies (4 and 5). Prometheus never excited me every much, but I find Le Poème de l'extase much more entertaining.

I do think that some of the silly quotes about Le Poème de l'extase are hilarious - "the obscenest piece of music ever written" and supposedly from Elgar at London's Gloucester Cathedral, "To think that Gloucester Cathedral should ever echo to such music; it's a wonder the gargoyles don't fall off the tower."


----------



## Aramis

WAIT

In all this Rach vs Scriab debate, how could I forget my video presenting suspicious similiarity between themes of their concertos?


----------



## Ukko

Ehh! In your sample, Rachmaninoff is coherent, Scriabin is not (a longer soundbite may be revealing).

Anyway, I wanted to ask you _Aramis_ if you have read Dubal's comments near the end of his book, "Evenings With Horowitz", about VH's playing of the Scriabin sonatas.


----------



## Ukko

mmsbls said:


> [...]
> I do think that some of the silly quotes about Le Poème de l'extase are hilarious - "the obscenest piece of music ever written" and supposedly from Elgar at London's Gloucester Cathedral, "To think that Gloucester Cathedral should ever echo to such music; it's a wonder the gargoyles don't fall off the tower."


Those reactions are the result of knowing the 'program'. The music itself is neither obscene, nor sexually suggestive, nor very interesting. An excellent example of "You can't follow the action without the program - get it here, only two dollars."


----------



## Aramis

Hilltroll72 said:


> Anyway, I wanted to ask you _Aramis_ if you have read Dubal's comments near the end of his book, "Evenings With Horowitz", about VH's playing of the Scriabin sonatas.


Nope, I don't really like Horowitz so I never reached for this book.


----------



## violadude

Alexander Scriabin-

Pieces I have by Scriabin:

All the piano sonatas (1-10)
Vers la Flamme
Desir Op. 57 no. 1
Caresse Danse Op. 57 No. 1
Etude in C# minor Op. 2 No. 1
8 etudes Op. 42
All the symphonies (1-3)
Poem of Ecstasy 
Poem of Fire
Piano Concerto
Reviere

I adore Scriabin's music now, but there was a time when him and his music scared the living **** out of me. I don't know why, but something about it just creeped me out so much. Anyway, like I said, love his music now. Like most everybody knows by now, he had one of the most incredible music progressions, from dramatic, highly emotional and lyrical romantic style compositions reminiscent of a Chopin-Liszt hybrid. To highly personal, poetic, impressionistic pieces that use a unique brand of atonalism to evoke many different sensory images, not unlike what Debussy was doing with his own modal/pentatonic language. So far, from what I have heard, I definitely like his piano compositions better than his orchestral compositions. He was pretty good at writing for orchestra, no doubt, but his piano compositions are as versatile and and imaginative in their sound world as the best compositions for orchestra. He certainly had a talent for drawing out various timbres and colors and emotions from the piano, which always keep his compositions for that instrument very exciting. I love the early romantic works for sure, but I think I love the later compositions even more, just because they are so unique in their sound, thematic treatment and impressionistic flavor. Scriabin was truly a very visionary composer, even though he did go a little nuts because of it.


----------



## starthrower

The only recording I have is the Maazel London disc pictured on page one. I'm not crazy about the piano concerto, but I'm not an Ashkenazy fan. I've heard Glenn Gould playing some of the solo piano music which I enjoyed, so eventually I'd like to pick up a recording or two. Probably the Ogden set on EMI, and maybe the Etudes by Garrick Ohlsson. 

My library has a copy of the 3 disc apocalyptic works realized by Alexander Nemtin, Preparation For The Final Mystery. It comes with an interesting booklet. Scriabin was definitely a highly eccentric, flaky guy.


----------



## Aramis




----------



## GrosseFugue

*Advice on Scriabin*

I'm thinking about investing in the complete Scriabin recordings by this young lady:
http://www.lettberg.com/en/scriabin.htm

Heard great things about her playing.

I have Horowitz performing the "Black Mass" sonata and found it really beguiling.

Any Scriabin fans out there? How are his other works? Similar or straight-up bizarre? I'm sure it'll be hit-and-miss. Just hoping for more hits than misses.  Hate to have 8 discs or only end up listening to two of them.

BTW, I understand Sciabin was kinda' nutso? He had synesthesia and believed he was a mystic and had OCD? But was he ever truly insane? Ever institutionalized? He sorta' makes me think of Glenn Gould a little bit.


----------



## Ukko

Sofronitsky.


----------



## regressivetransphobe

He was INSANE, and his music's better for it


----------



## pjang23

From a recent thread:



pjang23 said:


> Scriabin's Vers la Flamme is like a hallucinogenic episode.


----------



## gridweb

I'm very happy that you like Scriabin.
He is one of my favourites.

I own the Lettberg set and it is fabulous.

Scriabin's piano works up to op. 30 sound a little Chopinesque with a twist.
After that he found his own voice.

Yes, he was weird, but not insane.
Many artists from around 1900 saw themselves as visionairs.
More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Scriabin

I hope you can find a copy of the Lettberg set.

Best,
Willem


----------



## lukecubed

I love me some Scriabin. His early stuff is more straightforward/romantic, his later stuff is like Debussy on bad acid. It's all great. Most of it is for piano but his orchestral stuff is important too.





"...like a bath of ice, cocaine and rainbows..."


----------



## violadude

lukecubed said:


> I love me some Scriabin. His early stuff is more straightforward/romantic, his later stuff is like Debussy on bad acid. It's all great. Most of it is for piano but his orchestral stuff is important too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "...like a bath of ice, cocaine and rainbows..."


Yes I was going to compare Scriabin to Debussy as well, if I ever got around to posting in this thread. 

To the OP I would recommend listening to his late works as if you were listening to an impressionist piece. Don't listen to melodies, just colors and nuances and gestures and all that Jazz. There are themes and development and stuff but they are a bit hard to catch on, so the way I have just suggested listening might help you.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I would say he was 50% mystic visionary and 50% deluded egomaniac, but there's no denying that he was way ahead of his time in trying to realise a lavish multi-media meisterwerk cum proto-psychedelic spiritual happening to end them all as well as believing that his musical vision should enrapture at least three of the senses with the aid of perfumes and revolving coloured lights (surely a precursor to the groovy 60s liquid light shows?). 

Then he died. 

I would say his piano works (at least the ones I have got, which represent about 70% of his solo piano output) are overall more even in quality and more varied in mood than his orchestral ones which occasionally do overreach themselves although anything by him is of interest at the very least. Had he lived longer I wouldn't have been at all surprised had he founded his own Church of Skryabin and strutted about in a large velvet cape and pendulous golden medallion with hundreds of beautiful young things worshipping at his feet in slavering starry-eyed devotion. 

Incidentally, his nephew ended up being the Metropolitan of the Orthodox Church in GB and Ireland and only died in 2003.


----------



## GrosseFugue

elgars ghost said:


> Had he lived longer I wouldn't have been at all surprised had he founded his own Church of Skryabin and strutted about in a large velvet cape and pendulous golden medallion with hundreds of beautiful young things worshipping at his feet in slavering starry-eyed devotion.


That's wild!  I could see that though. A sort of musical L. Ron Hubbard? LOL.

I really enjoyed that sample of The Poem of Ecstasy; the way it builds to that insane crescendo.

Looks like I'll have to invest in that piano set.


----------



## Ukko

GrosseFugue said:


> That's wild!  I could see that though. A sort of musical L. Ron Hubbard? LOL.
> 
> I really enjoyed that sample of The Poem of Ecstasy; the way it builds to that insane crescendo.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to invest in that piano set.


Yeah, it's wild. L. Ron Hubbard isn't a useful comparison though. That guy knew just what he was doing.


----------



## GrosseFugue

Hey all, I just discovered this new kid on the block for Scriabin recordings: http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Etud...tmm_msc_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1327324786&sr=1-2

Olli Mustonen.

Curious what other Scriabin-ites think of him.


----------



## Vaneyes

GrosseFugue said:


> Hey all, I just discovered this new kid on the block for Scriabin recordings: http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Etud...tmm_msc_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1327324786&sr=1-2
> 
> Olli Mustonen.
> 
> Curious what other Scriabin-ites think of him.


Dyn-o-mite. Got it on order.


----------



## stevenski

Michael Ponti in concerto, piano sonatas and complete solo piano stuff if u want to go on a demonic, nervile, hallucinogenic trip; brings out the very core of Scriabin's sometimes violent, sometimes hysterical, and sometimes tender music. Steve


----------



## Lukecash12

Dunno if you could say that Scriabin was insane, per se. He was simply a theosophist. Read about theosophy, and Scriabin will start to make sense. Now, was he manic, or a narcissist? I would certainly say so.

Think more in terms of evocative themes, as opposed to just manic nuttiness, and you might get his work a little better. Take vers la flamme for example. The poem and music invite us to ask questions of the person it relates to us: Is he consuming a star? Is the star consuming him? Is he descending into hell? All that we know from the title and poem is that he/she is coming towards the flame.


----------



## Lukecash12

Two other performers I'd like up are Valeri Kastelsky (one time vice president of the Alezander Scriabin foundation) and Dmitry Bashkirov. As for the sonatas and vers la flamme, I'd recommend only Richter and Sofronitsky. Horowitz is okay, but when it comes to thematic development he really doesn't stack up to those two Russians.











In terms of the piano concerto, I'd look up Lazar Berman as well. In terms of most of the short pieces, I'd look up Samuil Feinberg. And did I mention that I've got a little playlist of Scriabin's music for you to peruse, maybe see who and what you like in it: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL750BEBAADBED3A1D&feature=plcp


----------



## vklaatu

Ruth Laredo's recording of 9th piano sonata and Horrowitz's recording of the 5th are actually my all time favorite recordings, in any genre. Gould's rather odd recording of the 5th is useful to me for seeing the piece's innner workings. The 5th piano sonata is actually my favorite piece of music, by anybody. I first encountered Scriabin on my own, quite literally, thanks to a prelude in my piano excercise book at age 11. That was 1982, in Florida.


----------



## cunhaecouto

Scriabin has much boring pieces without personality but he has pieces that are the best of the world: «Symphony no.3», «Poem of extase» and «Etude number 5 opus 42» (this is less genial). Scriabin has other great pieces but my favourite I already said.


----------



## DeepR

Bump. Massive Scriabin fan here. He is a unique genius and my favorite composer of the 20th century. 
One of the greatest composers in both 'late romantic' AND 'modern early 20th century music', for both piano AND orchestra. That versatility is one of the reasons he stands out for me, because few to none composers wrote such high quality music in both categories.

The late romantic solo piano music like the early etudes, preludes, sonatas, a beautiful concerto (the heart-achingly beautiful Andante is more beautiful than any slow movement of Beethoven, Chopin or Rachmaninoff) and two fantastic symphonies... Symphony No. 1 has one of the greatest (choral) finales in the history of music. 
He gradually developed his own highly unique piano and orchestral music exploring more and more exotic harmonies and atonality.
The only composer who made largely dissonant works that I love to listen to, because it's still emotional, organic, impulsive.... as opposed to that dull, abstract, systematic, ugly, cold, atonal music that developed later in the 20th century. I consider all of that worthless compared to Scriabin's music.

Pieces like the Poem of Ecstasy and the Poem of Fire, the late sonatas and Vers La Flamme get better and better the more you listen to it.

Here is my favorite version of the Poem of Ecstasy:


----------



## DeepR

And where is the love for his first symphony??! 

Scriabin's only orchestral piece that ends up in some favorites lists is the Poem of Ecstasy.

I never see the first symphony mentioned anywhere. I just don't get it.

Here are my favorite parts: movement 1, 5 and the second half of movement 6 :


----------



## elgar's ghost

As with Mahler I wish he'd have written some chamber works - and as with Mahler maybe he would have had he lived longer.


----------



## DeepR

Doubtful, his Mysterium would have ended the world.


----------



## DeepR

Sonata # 2 by Hamelin. Love it love it love it.


----------



## DeepR

Any opinions on Alexander Nemtin's Preparation for the Final Mystery?
I've been reading about it and was listening to some fragments.

http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Prep...R2SQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335737935&sr=8-1

On a sidenote: By chance I found out this music was recently used in a horror movie about Frankenstein, hah!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1748018/


----------



## DeepR

VERS LA FLAMME






Scriabin, Horowitz. Nothing can compete with this.


----------



## DeepR

^ my point exactly:


----------



## Igneous01

He is really starting to grow on me, I am right now in love with his black mass sonata, and his white mass is peaking my interest as well.


----------



## DeepR

How different are his late sonatas and other pieces to his early romantic music... and how great was Scriabin at both of it and everything in between!


----------



## DeepR




----------



## Vaneyes

DeepR said:


> Any opinions on Alexander Nemtin's Preparation for the Final Mystery?
> I've been reading about it and was listening to some fragments.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Prep...R2SQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335737935&sr=8-1
> 
> On a sidenote: By chance I found out this music was recently used in a horror movie about Frankenstein, hah!
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1748018/


Each to his own. I've never had the urge to buy "Preparation for the Final Mystery". I find orchestration of his solo piano works de-tract, not at-tract. The Frankenstein flick's probably a good place for it.

IIRC when it was released, it retailed for $50 to $60. A decade or so ago, I had a chance to buy it used/mint condition for $20. I passed on that, also. I would do the same if Brilliant Classics reissued it tomorrow.


----------



## DeepR

Does anyone know some interesting things about the relation between Rachmaninoff and Scriabin? Were they lifelong friends? Did they keep in touch?
From what I've read:
- Scriabin and Rachmaninoff were conservatory classmates and shared piano teachers.
- Rachmaninoff won first and Scriabin second prize for a piano competition at conservatory.
- Rachmaninoff went on tour playing Scriabin's music after his death. 
- Rachmaninoff studied Scriabin's music before composing his Etudes-Tableaux op. 39.
- Scriabin didn't like Rachmaninoff's music and Rachmaninoff didn't understand Scriabin's late music (sources ?)


----------



## Crudblud

DeepR said:


> Any opinions on Alexander Nemtin's Preparation for the Final Mystery?
> I've been reading about it and was listening to some fragments.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Prep...R2SQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335737935&sr=8-1
> 
> On a sidenote: By chance I found out this music was recently used in a horror movie about Frankenstein, hah!
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1748018/


I've got it, and I think it's fantastic. I don't know how faithful it is to Scriabin's sketches, but it certainly sounds like something he would have composed around that time, and considering that I don't like his Piano Concerto it's great to have another work from him in that genre.


----------



## DeepR

From what I've heard on youtube Sofronitsky is great, but I still prefer Horowitz when I compare them playing the same pieces. I admit this is partially because of better recording quality.


----------



## Vaneyes

DeepR said:


> Does anyone know some interesting things about the relation between Rachmaninoff and Scriabin? Were they lifelong friends? Did they keep in touch?
> From what I've read:
> - Scriabin and Rachmaninoff were conservatory classmates and shared piano teachers.
> - Rachmaninoff won first and Scriabin second prize for a piano competition at conservatory.
> - Rachmaninoff went on tour playing Scriabin's music after his death.
> - Rachmaninoff studied Scriabin's music before composing his Etudes-Tableaux op. 39.
> - Scriabin didn't like Rachmaninoff's music and Rachmaninoff didn't understand Scriabin's late music (sources ?)


Impressive, that both men were able to put their professional opinions aside for friendship. And what a tribute by Rachmaninov, to play only Scriabin when pressed to play his own music.


----------



## DeepR

Those were some facts I remember reading (most from wikipedia I guess), but I'd like to know more about the nature of their friendship. For example did they still meet each other and/or write letters after their conservatory time and later in life?


----------



## DeepR

I don't think Scriabin thought very highly of any composer besides Chopin in the beginning. I think later in life he said he didn't understand how he could've liked such a minor composer (Chopin)... I guess in the end he was too obsessed with his own music and didn't care for anything else? Ah well, I should read a biography.


----------



## DeepR

Documentary about Scriabin. It's nice but also has some silly material IMO. And bad audio quality recordings of Poem of Fire and Ecstasy.






Below the video are a bunch of interesting comments from pianist John Young Bell. I copy pasted them here:



> I wouldn't rely on Bowers biography, if I were you; it is﻿ full of holes, misinformation, outrageous speculation, and outright lies.The purple prose doesn't help either. No one takes Bowers seriously. The best works on Scriabin are by Russian biographers and theorists, including Rubtsova and Dyernova. My own book, still in progress, is called "Scriabin Defended Against His Devotees; A Critical Examination of the Composer and His Music in the Context of Russian Religion, History, and Culture"
> 
> Regarding the unfinished Prefatory Action and Mysterium, which you correctly claim were recorded by Ashkenazy; Scriabin left only the briefest of sketches for these, which were fleshed out and "completed" by the﻿ brilliant Russian composer, Alexander Nemtin, who I knew well. I visited him often in Moscow, where I had the pleasure of seeing him at work on the final stages of this speculative Mysterium, on huge. 5 x 3 ft ledger sheets, spread out all over the floor of his tiny living room.
> 
> The carbuncle on his lip that led to Scriabin's death as a result of blood poisoning was certainly NOT some mysterious gift from 'above' any more than﻿ anyone's malady. To suggest as much not only distorts the facts, but continues to feed into the ludicrous popular mythology that has distorted the man and his music for decades. BASTA!
> 
> I can add this, however, and tell you that your theory of the origins of his final illness is not entirely wrong, though it is misinformed. You are indeed on the right track,in that you are correct to say that the world was﻿ not ready to take Scriabin's aesthetic and religious agenda seriously, at least with regard to what he believed it could yield for civilization. I devoted an entire essay to this, albeit a fanciful one in the form of a fictional narrative.
> 
> That he could not reconcile these facts, nor even produce the works in the manner he desired, crushed his spirit; he realized, at some point, that he would either﻿ be viewed as a lunatic or as merely a fraud, neither of which were true. Doubtless the stress severely compromised his immune system, and in those days, of course, there were no antibiotics, which could easily have cured him of the infection. [MORE]
> 
> As you may know, Scriabin's intent was to have the﻿ Prefatory Action and Mysterium performed in the foothills and throughout the Himalayas, where there would be a festival of the senses (ominsenses)and arts that would include dancers, olfactory stimulii, music, art, etc, all a-jumble in the service of transfiguration and rebirth -- a Nietzschean ideal, by the way, that had far greater influence on his aesthetic agenda than anything Blavatsky ever wrote. [more]
> 
> In any case, Scriabin died before he could produce the Mysterium as the grand, awe-inspiring spectacle in the Himalayas, where 'bells would be suspended from clouds'. (the symbolism, to speak nothing of the pagentry of it all, proceeded directly from the very tenets and his own experience not with Theosopy, or even the Vedanta, which inspired him, too, but with the tenets, procedures﻿ and practices of Russian Christian Orthodoxy). [more]
> 
> In 1999 I engaged the renowned Alpinist,Carlos Buhler to climb to the summit of Mount Melungtse in the Himalayas.With him were my own recordings of Scriabin's piano music (including Sonata 7,which was especially relevant in symbolic﻿ categories,as it is also part of the Mysterium's motivic tapestry) as well as the recording of the Scriabin-Nemtin 'Universe'. From the summit Carlos broadcast our recordings via satellite.Thus did I personally see to it that Scriabin's greatest dream came true.
> 
> Addendum; As testimony and a memento of the journey to the summit of the Himalayas that we established in honor of Scriabin, Carlos Buhler left behind not only the recordings, but a large 4 x 4 foot flag featuring the cover art of my CD, 'Prisms' (Americus Records), which is﻿ devoted mostly to Scriabin's piano music. Photographs of the event and Carlos Buhler's journey to Mount Melungtse in the Himalayas can be seen on my website.
> 
> Far more influential on Scriabin's thinking and aesthetic agenda, than anything Blavatsky ever penned-- she was, after all, nothing more﻿ than a 19th century parlor trickster and 'psychic' medium -- was the﻿ influence of the Russian Mystical Anarchists, as well as the radical, sexually charged theology of Vladimir Solovyev.
> 
> Scriabin did NOT have cancer on his lip; it was a carbuncle that developed due to blood poisoning, that was most likely a﻿ result of an infection he developed while in St Petersburg in April 1915. Even to this day, mosquitoes and all﻿ manner of pathogens flourish in the rotting infrastructure underneath the city.
> 
> The widespread, naive fantasy that Blavatsky and her bogus﻿ species of Theosophy had the "greatest spiritual influence" on Scriabin﻿ is dead wrong. His influences were considerably more complex. The Blavatsky-Theosophy myth, long since blown all out of proportion, was born of misinformation and a broad misunderstanding of Russian cultural, religious and philosophical trends at the close of the 19th century and the﻿ dawn of the 20th.
> 
> The narrator mistakenly claims that Julian Scriabin was the composer's brother. That is incorrect. Julian was in fact Scriabin's son, who drowned﻿ in the Dniepr in﻿ 1919, four years after his father's death, at age 11.
> 
> I have some doubts about the authenticity of a photograph that is featured in this film at 23:12. It could be Scriabin, but I have never laid eyes on this photo, either here, in Russia, in﻿ any major library, nor even at the Scriabin Museum, whose archives I have harvested with a fine tooth comb over many years. It is odd that it should only surface now; I suspect it is a photograph of an actor or a model, made to look like Scriabin; I seriously doubt it is a photo of Scriabin himself.
> 
> I'm not sure what the antique film footage of the temples and priests, shown midway﻿ through this charming if often inaccurate film - of Bangcok have to do with Scriabin -- nothing, in fact -- but I love the imagery as it is set to Prometheus here, nevertheless....
> 
> [con't] In my view, Scriabin's final illness served as a metaphor for his creative life, and was likely a kind of auto-induced suicide.﻿ Scriabin valued nothing if not his artistic integrity, and the promise of transfiguration through his music -- specifically the Mysterium and Prefatory Action -- that he had given his colleagues and the public to believe would come to﻿ pass, never did, and never could. [more]
> [con't] ﻿ That Scriabin was never able to reconcile his promise of transfiguration through his music with the overwhelming reality that no artistic event could possibly cause the end of time, as he believed, and lead, quite literally and not merely symbolically, to some psycho-physical reinvention and global rebirth of humanity, likely devastated him. He certainly did not want his legacy to be that of a lunatic or worse, a fraud, which is how some would have greeted him (and still do) [more]
> [con't] Thus I suspect that the stress of it﻿ all was too much for his immune system, which was compromised by travel and the hygienic challenges of the era, and especially his environment. He could see on the horizon a crushing defeat of his lifelong expectations and closely held beliefs. In a word, he gave up on life, and allowed death to move in and take him.


----------



## Morgante

His first symphony is a masterpiece.


----------



## DeepR

Morgante said:


> His first symphony is a masterpiece.


Agreed.

Here is a nice informative page about the Poem of Ecstasy:

http://www.carnegiehall.org/Golden_Age_of_Music_Scriabin_Poems_of_Ecstasy/

Does anyone have the full poem (in words) in English?

Off topic: Watch that little video on the left: Mahler as conductor and Rachmaninoff as pianist, great!!


----------



## Swampcabbage

I too have a deep admiration for Scriabin's symphonies. In fact, I find it a little puzzling that a great many people in the classical community either find them inaccessible or uninteresting.

Personally, I find his early symphonies to be ecstatic without the late-romantic earmark of melodrama, his later ones to be adventurously modern without ever being unnatural, and all five to be remarkably unique in character.

I mean, the finale of the first made me feel as though I'd seen God.


----------



## DeepR

This list includes my current favorites and favorite performances of Scriabin's early to mid period solo piano music, up until Op. 42.

Canon (his first piece, age 11)




 (Coombs)

Variations on a theme by Mlle Egorova (very Chopin like, age 15)




 (Coombs)

Etude Op. 2 No.1




 (Horowitz)

Etude Op. 8 No. 4 




 (Sofronitsky)

Etude Op. 8 No. 5




 (Richter)

Etude Op. 8 No. 8




 (Horowitz)

Etude Op. 8 No. 11




 (Horowitz)

Etude Op. 8 No. 12




 (Horowitz)

Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2




 (Japanese pianist Tateno who can only use his left hand)

Prelude Op. 11 No. 1
Prelude Op. 11 No. 10
Prelude Op. 11 No. 14
Prelude Op. 11 No. 24




 (Pletnev, complete set of Op. 11)

Impromptu Op. 12 No. 2




 (Sofronitsky)

Prelude Op. 16 No. 1




 (Horowitz)

Prelude Op. 16 No. 4 (his easiest piece!)




 (Horowitz)

Prelude Op. 17 No. 3 




 (unknown amateur)

Sonata No. 2 Op. 19
Movement 1: 



 (Hamelin)
Movement 2: 



 (Hamelin)

Sonata No. 3 Op. 23
Movement 1: 



 (Horowitz)
Movement 3: 



 (Horowitz)

Fantasie Op. 28




 (Sofronitsky)

Poeme Op. 32 No. 1




 (Horowitz)

Etude Op. 42 No. 4




 (Horowitz, video title incorrectly states No. 2)

Etude Op. 42 No. 5




 (Horowitz)


----------



## Feathers

Listening to Scriabin's first symphony right now and it gets me completely mesmerized every time. Just can't get enough of his music!


----------



## DeepR

Feathers said:


> Listening to Scriabin's first symphony right now and it gets me completely mesmerized every time. Just can't get enough of his music!


Which recording are you listening to?
I can't get enough of his music since 5 years and counting.


----------



## Feathers

DeepR said:


> Which recording are you listening to?
> I can't get enough of his music since 5 years and counting.


The Ashkenazy one. How did you get into Scriabin 5 years ago?  (I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if you mentioned it earlier in the thread.)


----------



## DeepR

I like the Ashkenazy too, but prefer the sound of the Muti recording.

The choral finale is to me simply one of the greatest moments in all music I've heard. There is no reason why it shouldn't be regarded as one of the greatest choral finales along with Mahler etc.
It shows the potential Scriabin had to write this kind of music. I would've liked to hear more of Scriabin in this style, but, he was moving forward with every new composition.

Didn't mention it earlier but I got into Scriabin when I was getting more and more interested in solo piano music. Someone on a piano forum linked Etude Op. 2 No. 1 played by Horowitz and from that moment on I was hooked.


----------



## DeepR

Interesting article on Scriabin's pianism:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/DEC10/Skryabin_pianop.htm


----------



## Cosmos

I honestly am devoted to Scriabin, and I'm only familiar with his sonatas (I plan on getting a cd of his symphonies and piano concerto though )

If you haven't heard them, you need to because (IMO) they are some of the best gems in the sonata genre.

Sonata 1: Dark, violent at times, and sombre (unusually, the sonata has a funeral march, not for a person, but for Scriabin's hand that he injured after an aggressive practice.)
2: Very lyrical, reminds me of Chopin's ballades. The second movement is a crazy toccata. The sonata is supposed to be a poem of the sea
3: Probably my favorite of the early sonatas, this one first had the subtitle "Gothic" meant to invoke an old castle (or cathedral?) but instead he changed it to be a poem about the stages of the soul. The Andante movement is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard
4: The shortest, and generally calm, though the finale is pretty intense. It reminds me of the 3rd.
5: This is the sonata that is universally agreed upon to be his greatest achievement. The music comes and goes, so mysterious yet so lyrical
6: This sonata is my least favorite, but it's still good. Very dark and shadowy, Scriabin himself never played it in public because the music made him uncomfortable (with his synthesia, I wonder what ugly colors he saw )
7: Called the white mass in order to purge the darkness of the 6th, this sonata (melody wise) doesn't sound so light and religious. But getting into the music, it sounds blinding, like light
8: Though this is probably his least popular sonata, it is one of his best, and my favorite of the late sonatas. The 8th starts out with an impressive contrapuntal "overture", showing all the themes that will be developed later in the sonata. It never gets bombastic, but it sure is intense
9: The famous "Black Mass" is very unsettling, and the entire piece is a buildup to the inevitable and explosive climax
10: The last sonata is, surprisingly, very joyous. Like sunlight through grey clouds.

*sigh* ok, I'm fanboy-ing over for now


----------



## Vaneyes

Cosmos said:


> I honestly am devoted to Scriabin, and I'm only familiar with his sonatas (I plan on getting a cd of his symphonies and piano concerto though )
> 
> If you haven't heard them, you need to because (IMO) they are some of the best gems in the sonata genre....


Do get anything and everything of his solo piano. IMO that's the heart and soul of Scriabin. Such unbelievable introspection.

But as we know, Scriabin was a showman, too. And for that, we need his orchestral works. Muti with Alexeev et al do an impressive job with those...conveniently, though OOP on EMI and Brilliant Classics. If these sets are financially out of reach, do try singles searches of these recs. at Amazon Marketplace.

Also, supplementing for Symphony 3, I suggest the OdP/Barenboim performance (OOP Erato, Elatus). It is exceptional, cw. Le poeme de l'extase. :tiphat:


----------



## DeepR

Join the club Cosmos! I love his sonatas too. The only one I haven't listened to yet is the 4th. 
Do listen to his shorter piano works and miniatures as well! See my post on the previous page for some suggestions. A good place to start would simply be Etudes Op. 8 and Preludes Op. 11, but there are much more wonderful little pieces.


----------



## clavichorder

I've been going through a Scriabin phase of late. The Valse op. 38 and Poeme op 32 no 1 are favorites, to name just two.


----------



## joen_cph

clavichorder said:


> I've been going through a Scriabin phase of late. The Valse op. 38 and Poeme op 32 no 1 are favorites, to name just two.


Yes, very nice pieces!


----------



## DeepR

Indeed they are. Especially this magical recording of the Valse: 



Others like Sofronitsky are somewhat on the heavy side.

And Horowitz all the way for the Poeme: 




I feel the Sofronitsky worshipping by some is not always justified. I find his interpretations sometimes quite disappointing. Hit and miss.


----------



## joen_cph

I love that Bashkirov too, probably the best version, but IMO Sofronitsky is great in op.32,1 (there seems to be several Sofronitsky recordings of the piece - this one is good)


----------



## clavichorder

Really digging the 4th piano sonata, as played by Ashkenazy,


----------



## DeepR

Someone on youtube commented: "Scriabin always makes me ache for a past I never lived..."

That's spot on. I've had this feeling as well listening to some of his (earlier) pieces.


----------



## Blake

Can't get enough of these Russians.


----------



## DeepR

2 pieces I've been enjoying recently:

Impromptu Op. 14 No. 2






Poeme Op. 59 No. 1


----------



## norman bates

...........................


----------



## millionrainbows

*Scriabin: Piano Sonata no. 10, op. 70.*


----------



## helpmeplslol

Lovers of the 5th Sonata will enjoy these:


----------



## DeepR

The radical change and progress this man has made within a relatively short amount of time, in both piano and orchestral music, continues to befuddle me.


----------



## Vaneyes

A* Scriabin* overview, courtesy of The Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/mar/28/russian-composer-scriabin-gergiev-lso


----------



## Marschallin Blair

*Stokowski 1969 Live Royal Philharmonic Poem of Ecstasy*

The sounds not too great, but the performance is off the charts:


----------



## prometheus

Prometheus, with lights:


----------



## TwoPhotons

I really like his Poeme Tragique, op.34. It's got some nice contrasts throughout:


----------



## DeepR

The Etudes Op. 42
I usually listen to No. 4 and No. 5 but the other ones are very nice too.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

This is so appropriate!






The original here:


----------



## DeepR

DeepR said:


> Poeme Op. 59 No. 1


I so love this little otherworldly piece... and the way he brings it to an end, starting at 1:20 , then those chords... 
Scriabin could've made a wonderful piece of only 15 seconds, proper ending included.


----------



## DeepR

helpmeplslol said:


>


Ha, wonderful. 6:52: It's like it was made for chiptune!


----------



## Stirling

*Scriabin*

And the late sonatas ...


----------



## Pugg

Stirling said:


> And the late sonatas ...


What about them?


----------



## Dim7

In the composer guestbook subforum there's supposed to be just one thread per composer and Scriabin already has one: http://www.talkclassical.com/13794-alexander-scriabin.html


----------



## Stirling

The late sonata are a masterpiece that few dare climb. I know of two in the present day, one famous, the other obscure.


----------



## DeepR

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016RM2Z2U?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

This could be interesting. I'm generally not a fan of Lisitsa but she plays quite a bit of early, obscure pieces without opus number. I haven't even heard some of those. She also plays the alternative version of Etude Op. 8 No. 12.
Some people don't think much of early Scriabin but I happen to love it, I find his early pieces always charming.


----------



## Klassic

Why is this dude so underrated; he wrote some of the most power and beautiful piano music in existence.


----------



## DeepR

yes, case in point:


----------



## klapatas

JTech82 said:


> Scriabin was a pretty good composer. I have the "Complete Symphonies" 3-disc set on Decca and it's not bad at all. Vladimir Ashkenazy is the conductor on this set with Berlin German Symphony. He's not that bad of a composer, but I would prefer to listen to Sibelius, Nielsen, Mahler, Bruckner, Bartok, Stravinsky, Dvorak, Schubert, and Prokofiev any time of the day instead of Scriabin.


Rach Sib and Nielsen are amateurs compared to Scriabins orchestrattion genius.


----------



## Klassic

Just wanted say, thinking about Scriabin today, such a unique and substantive composer. His piano music is full of so many delicacies.


----------



## Dim7

Interesting youtube comment about Scriabin: "Scriabin's works always sound like two Debussy pieces being played at once."


----------



## Abraham Lincoln




----------



## DeepR

Some people would rather be water-boarded.


----------



## Abraham Lincoln

Seriously, I love Tumblr.


----------



## Pugg

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Seriously, I love Tumblr.


To much time one your hands


----------



## Abraham Lincoln

Pugg said:


> To much time one your hands


? 

I watch you in your sleep, you cannot hide from me. This is filler text by the way.


----------



## DeepR

I've read some hilarious things about Scriabin, but I've also read some translations of letters written by him and it shows he was, in the end, just another human being with doubts and insecurities and he was also capable of kindness. I guess his megalomania developed gradually or only manifested itself under certain conditions.


----------



## DeepR




----------



## Huilunsoittaja

I think one of the funniest stories I ever read about him was he had a conversation with a pianist some time in the 1910s, and the pianist happened to drop the C-bomb... that is.... he said that he loved both Scriabin's music as well as _Chopin's_. Scriabin was immediately angered. "What? You like Chopin AND me?! No! How dare you love us both at the same time! There is only me or him and you must choose between us! I won't stand for this! Chopin and I are NOT ALIKE!" etc etc. It was a bit of a rant, Scriabin hammering his fist on the table. The pianist was promptly silenced but told others about it later. 

If Scriabin had 2 greatest fears, one was to be made a fool out of his passions, and to be compared to Chopin.

Another story, there was a listening of his 2nd Symphony on piano at RK's house, and there were several other people there. Someone else was playing the symphony at the piano, and everyone was watching. At the end, Scriabin made a careless statement of "Oh, it wasn't that great, lots of issues with it," etc. and another guy (who I will call Y because that's all I can remember of his name) cautiously agreed with him and said that the ending was definitely weak. Scriabin's eyes died for a moment and became quiet. Glazunov, seeing this happen, smiled and whispered to Y, "See, you have offended him now. He only said that to be corrected." Y didn't realize that this was a common behavior of Scriabin, to belittle himself in order to be built up by others.

Third story! At another RK soiree, Scriabin must have been drunk or something, because he was playing piano and began to ramble about his divinity. "I must be God!" he was saying. Liadov, who always was fond of Scriabin and his music, said, "You're not a God. You're a chicken!" supposedly to make fun of his hair, or just the fact he was "cocky." Scriabin was so taken back by this but wanted to hide the fact he was humiliated so he laughed with everyone else. In the end, Scriabin got along with Liadov way better than anyone else of the older generation, and this is apparent with Liadov's later experiments in his piano music.


----------



## Dim7

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Another story, there was a listening of his 2nd Symphony on piano at RK's house, and there were several other people there. Someone else was playing the symphony at the piano, and everyone was watching. At the end, Scriabin made a careless statement of "Oh, it wasn't that great, lots of issues with it," etc. and another guy (who I will call Y because that's all I can remember of his name) cautiously agreed with him and said that the ending was definitely weak. Scriabin's eyes died for a moment and became quiet. Glazunov, seeing this happen, smiled and whispered to Y, "See, you have offended him now. He only said that to be corrected." Y didn't realize that this was a common behavior of Scriabin, to belittle himself in order to be built up by others.


I don't get why there is so little love for the 2nd symphony. The third movement first caught my attention, but lately I've been listening to the whole symphony.


----------



## Cosmos

Dim7 said:


> I don't get why there is so little love for the 2nd symphony. The third movement first caught my attention, but lately I've been listening to the whole symphony.


My "controversial" opinion: I like the second better than the Divine Poem


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Dim7 said:


> I don't get why there is so little love for the 2nd symphony. The third movement first caught my attention, but lately I've been listening to the whole symphony.


The second symphony is brilliant! The last movement had the most contention about it for being weak. Really, I think most of that movement is good too, so it's negligible. In Scriabin's lifetime, the 3rd symphony was more approved of than the 2nd for who knows why. I love that third movement too! Scriabin said that movement depicts him walking in a garden by night, hence the long flute solo depicting a nightingale. I love that solo so much.


----------



## Ilarion

"Long flute solo depicting a Nightingale" - Yes, vivid imagery by word-painting. Thank you, Huilu...:tiphat::angel:

"...depicts him walking in a garden by night" - Even more "word-painting" - Which brings me to think of a work by:


----------



## joen_cph

A mural at the Zuk Club in Moscow (2014)
http://www.isupportstreetart.com/zukclub-heritage-wall-3/


----------



## DeepR

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I think one of the funniest stories I ever read about him was he had a conversation with a pianist some time in the 1910s, and the pianist happened to drop the C-bomb... that is.... he said that he loved both Scriabin's music as well as _Chopin's_. Scriabin was immediately angered. "What? You like Chopin AND me?! No! How dare you love us both at the same time! There is only me or him and you must choose between us! I won't stand for this! Chopin and I are NOT ALIKE!" etc etc. It was a bit of a rant, Scriabin hammering his fist on the table. The pianist was promptly silenced but told others about it later.


 Maybe this is a seperate account, or you mixed things up a little:

"Who is your favourite composer?" he (Scriabin) asked with the condescending smile of the great master who knows the answer. When I answered without hesitation, "Brahms", he banged his fist on the table. "What, what?" he screamed. "How can you like this terrible composer and me at the same time? When I was your age I was a Chopinist, later I became a Wagnerite, but now I can only be a Scriabinist!" And, quite enraged, he took his hat and ran out of the café, leaving me stunned by this scene and with the bill to pay.

- Arthur Rubinstein, My Young Years


----------



## millionrainbows

Let's face it; by today's standards, Scriabin was a sociopath. Dr. Phil would never let him get away with this kind of behavior. BTW, I really like the later Sonatas, like nr. 7. I've heard Horowitz, but I'd like to hear a less Romanticized version, more modern, more objective, clear, and restrained.

More on this 'black mass' idea can be found in Lautremont's Maldorer, and in Huysman's Against Nature. Apparently it was sort of an artistic sub-current going around.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

DeepR said:


> Maybe this is a seperate account, or you mixed things up a little:
> 
> "Who is your favourite composer?" he (Scriabin) asked with the condescending smile of the great master who knows the answer. When I answered without hesitation, "Brahms", he banged his fist on the table. "What, what?" he screamed. "How can you like this terrible composer and me at the same time? When I was your age I was a Chopinist, later I became a Wagnerite, but now I can only be a Scriabinist!" And, quite enraged, he took his hat and ran out of the café, leaving me stunned by this scene and with the bill to pay.
> 
> - Arthur Rubinstein, My Young Years


Hahahahahaha that's even worse than my recollection. Bravo at finding it! Too bad I couldn't remember properly...


----------



## Medtnaculus

Just whenever I think I've exhausted his piano output, I discover numerous new favourite works. Truly an endless wealth of musical perfection.

How I wish he could have completed another 10 sonatas and 3 more orchestral poems...

Imagine if he delved into chamber music... I guess we have Roslavets, Krein, and Sabaneyev to satisfy those itches, though.


----------



## ST4

Scriabin has always been part of me on some level, his orchestral works, Sonatas and Preludes are all endless enjoyment for me.


----------



## Dim7

"The most relaxing piano muisc by Alexander Scriabin. 1 Hour Classical Music. Concentrate And Relax."

"Relaxing" lulz.... it includes the late piano sonatas too (at least some of them)


----------



## Retrograde Inversion

Despite my confessed difficulties with Russian music, I have to confess to being quite intrigued by later Scriabin. The late piano sonatas (along with some works of Ives, but that's another story) strike me as being a still slightly neglected part of the narrative of post-tonality and _Le Poème de l'extase_ is great when I'm in the mood for a good wallow.


----------



## Pugg

Retrograde Inversion said:


> Despite my confessed difficulties with Russian music, I have to confess to being quite intrigued by later Scriabin. The late piano sonatas (along with some works of Ives, but that's another story) strike me as being a still slightly neglected part of the narrative of post-tonality and _Le Poème de l'extase_ is great when I'm in the mood for a good wallow.


Better late then never I would say.


----------



## DeepR

Medtnaculus said:


> Just whenever I think I've exhausted his piano output, I discover numerous new favourite works. Truly an endless wealth of musical perfection.


That's my experience as well. I've heard it all now. 
I've said it before but I like his early music almost as much as his late music.

Variations on a Theme by Mlle Egorova (not bad for a 15 year old...!)




Romance for Horn and Piano




Impromptu Op.14 no.2




Prelude Op. 17 No. 3


----------



## Sonata

Absolutely stunning last movement to his first symphony. The whole symphony is great, I enjoyed right off the bat. But that last movement is on another level. Wow!

Does anyone have the Scriabin complete edition? How do you like it? I'm tempted


----------



## lextune

Every new recording of Prometheus is an event...


----------



## DeepR

Thanks for sharing. I found it very disappointing to be honest. Simply too slow in the first half, disjointed overall and suddenly rushed at the very end. This performance lacks all the drive and focus that makes both Muti's and Jurowski's renditions so great.


----------



## lextune

I enjoyed the Jurovski interpretation quite a bit. They also did a nice job on the lighting.


----------



## DeepR

"The Alexander Scriabin Companion: History, Performance, and Lore"

New book on Scriabin that was recently published. I'm reading some fragments on Google Books right now. Seems like a very interesting read for Scriabin enthusiasts.


----------



## malvinrisan

Sonata said:


> Absolutely stunning last movement to his first symphony. The whole symphony is great, I enjoyed right off the bat. But that last movement is on another level. Wow!
> 
> Does anyone have the Scriabin complete edition? How do you like it? I'm tempted


I love this symphony aswell, its very beautiful. Iv'e seen some people online saying that it has not so great orchestration and that makes it less enjoyable for them. I have no idea what is good orchestration or not, but all i can think is "How does that make the piece less enjoyable for you?". I guess people have different perspectives on things. Do you think they could enjoy it if they were less judgemental or do you think no?


----------



## TwoPhotons

malvinrisan said:


> I love this symphony aswell, its very beautiful. Iv'e seen some people online saying that it has not so great orchestration and that makes it less enjoyable for them. I have no idea what is good orchestration or not, but all i can think is "How does that make the piece less enjoyable for you?". I guess people have different perspectives on things. Do you think they could enjoy it if they were less judgemental or do you think no?


I listened through all the Scriabin symphonies a little while ago, and in my opinion the first two symphonies tend to get messy in the orchestrations, after which Scriabin gets progressively better. _However_, the last movement of the 1st Symphony is a stand out and deserves to be singled out. There are some incredibly beautiful passages in there.


----------



## DeepR

I like the 1st symphony, which I've heard live as well (along with the Poem of Ecstasy!), but I get some of the criticism. By the time he composed the Poem of Ecstasy (just 5-8 years later) he had really improved his orchestral writing, which wasn't bad to begin with. 
The first movement is as beautiful as a romantic opener could be, the 2nd to 4th movements are not bad but could've been better in my opinion. The symphony does start to drag in the middle movements, but the fifth movement makes up for most of that and I think it's pretty fantastic, including a very exciting ending. Of course, the last movement is just stunning and it was quite an experience to hear that live. It's the only time he composed something like that.
The second symphony still feels quite similar in style. The third is a clear departure from the first two and I think is very imaginative and playful, but perhaps a little problematic in some ways (also some conductors tend to make it overly bombastic). 
Then, the Poem of Ecstasy and Prometheus: Poem of Fire. Well, those are just spectacular and radically different compared to his other orchestral works. They are quite similar to each other in ways. But it's those two pieces that make him immortal when it comes to orchestral works.
Then there's the Mysterium... not a completion (because sadly, it was barely started), but more of a crude interpretation and realization of his music and ideas by another composer. I like it for what it is, but it's not true Scriabin. Supposedly the first part ("Universe") is the most authentic. Some themes were directly lifted from Scriabin's sketches. So that and Prometheus give the best idea of where he was going with his orchestral music. From the most intimate, tender, wonderful piano miniatures to maniacal earth-ending orchestral music, who else but Scriabin.


----------



## malvinrisan

Okay, i agree with you. I enjoy the first symphony and i think it's worth listening too, but i don't love it as much as i love the Poem of Ecstasy and Prometheus. Thanks for your thoughtful response.


----------



## jegreenwood

Somewhat surprised Garrick Ohlsson's name hasn't come up in this thread. I've been listening to his set of the sonatas today and was reminded of a wonderful all Scriabin recital I heard him give a few years back.


----------



## cougarjuno

Has any scholars tried to reconstruct and finish his Mysterium project?


----------



## Guest

Sonata said:


> Absolutely stunning last movement to his first symphony. The whole symphony is great, I enjoyed right off the bat. But that last movement is on another level. Wow!
> 
> Does anyone have the Scriabin complete edition? How do you like it? I'm tempted


I have this box and have enjoyed what I have heard so far. Recommended.


----------



## Janspe

cougarjuno said:


> Has any scholars tried to reconstruct and finish his Mysterium project?


Wikipedia tells us that:

_Alexander Nemtin spent 28 years reforming this sketch into a three-hour-long work, which was eventually recorded._

*Here's a review* of the recording that was made of the reconstruction - conducted by none other that Vladimir Ashkenazy!


----------



## Guest

DeepR said:


> "The Alexander Scriabin Companion: History, Performance, and Lore"
> 
> New book on Scriabin that was recently published. I'm reading some fragments on Google Books right now. Seems like a very interesting read for Scriabin enthusiasts.


I'm interested; thanks for posting. But at £52 it may remain fragments with me :lol:


----------



## DeepR

The Imslp website seems to have the most complete list of Scriabin's more obscure works: the ones without opus number. They are mostly student works I think. See bottom of the list. 
https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Aleksandr_Scriabin

These include a few genres/forms that he never touched again: fugue, song, duet, chamber piece, piece for string orchestra and even the beginnings of an opera called Keistut and Birute.

Here's the andante and scherzo for string orchestra:


----------



## DeepR

The third movement of the second symphony is actually quite brilliant, magical even. One of his finest orchestral moments before the symphonic poems.


----------



## Guest

DeepR said:


> The third movement of the second symphony is actually quite brilliant, magical even. One of his finest orchestral moments before the symphonic poems.


Which performance do you have?


----------



## DeepR

I have the Ashkenazy and Muti sets. 
I recently enjoyed this one too:


----------



## Guest

DeepR said:


> I have the Ashkenazy and Muti sets.
> I recently enjoyed this one too:


Thanks, I'll check them out.


----------



## Eusebius12

Scriabin's piano music is colossal. Some of it is incredibly tricky to play; I would say his music is as difficult as anyone's in the main repertoire. No wonder he injured his hand with some of the murderous stretches and leaps in his music. Some of the early etudes and preludes pack an enormous tonal punch. Horowitz gives the best idea of the incredible lyricism and passion of his piano oeuvre.


----------



## Larkenfield

Some listeners don't care for Scriabin's playing in this 1910 Welte piano-roll performance, perhaps because of its intense emotional agitation and turbulence that continues to build. But for me, it's thrilling with an exhilarating sense of "lift-off" that seems to ascend to the heavens-a quality would become more apparent as he got older and became more mystical in outlook... I find it a torrential outpouring of energy, almost as if he was trying to push the tempo into a blur.


----------



## DeepR

This recording of the Fantasie by Sofronitsky is absolutely titanic. I keep returning to it. Both the composer and the pianist gave it everything they got. 
It has a most wonderful romantic theme at 1:54 which returns later in the climax. How he plays that part from 1:54-2:20 is magic. Just notice the nuances and dynamics in the left hand. Also the prolonged ending is epic to say the least. Around 9:00 is one of my favorite moments. Goosebumps!

It is kind of an exhausting piece of music and the sound quality doesn't help either, but when you surrender to it and let go, you might feel the pure passion that went into this.


----------



## Bulldog

Larkenfield said:


> Some listeners don't care for Scriabin's playing in this 1910 Welte piano-roll performance, perhaps because of its intense emotional agitation and turbulence that continues to build. But for me, it's thrilling with an exhilarating sense of "lift-off" that seems to ascend to the heavens-a quality would become more apparent as he got older and became more mystical in outlook... I find it a torrential outpouring of energy, almost as if he was trying to push the tempo into a blur.


I totally agree. It's great that we have recorded performances by Scriabin himself. In modern times, quite a few performers such as Piers Lane for Hyperion prefer to play Scriabin's music in a relatively relaxed and measured way with little of the spontaneity and edge that Scriabin offers. Pianists have every right to deviate from composer intention, but I do hope that they realize the deviations. What I don't understand is why they deviate. To me, they dilute the music.


----------



## Larkenfield

Fascinating performance by Sofronitsky! But I had trouble recognizing Scriabin at times and it didn't seem to hang together as much as I would have liked - to feel the unity of it rather than having it at times sound stop and go and perhaps the sense of the whole being lost. Certainly, there's the tremendous outpouring of energy, and yet I wasn't entirely convinced that he understood the Scriabin idiom because it also sounded somewhat earthbound and didn't truly soar.

After Scriabin tragically died, Rachmaninoff did a tour playing his music in his honor and many listeners didn't like it because it sounded too "earthbound" and wasn't how Scriabin played his own music. Without that sense of ecstasy and bliss and spiritual uplift, I believe his music can sound strange, grating, and unconvincing.

I think it also helps to understand the occult and mystical teachings of Theosophy, based on the writings of Madame Blavatsky, that he believed in that inspired him spiritually and created that sense of soaring uplift or "lift-off" that was so much a part of his music, especially his final works. He was obsessed.

I think Vladimir Horowitz understood the Scriabin idiom in every respect and had met the composer. I believe Scriabin was possibly the most intense and passionate of any composer and his final goal in life was spiritual ecstasy, not only for himself but for humanity... to spiritually ascend to another dimension, as fantastic or as unrealistic as it sounds.






Toward the end, his music became more abstract, keyless, harmonically advanced, shimmering as if hovering above the ground, with a sequence of rising chord progressions that seemed to transcend the boundaries of the earth toward heaven. It was incredible... revolutionary... intoxicating. The end.


----------



## DeepR

I think you should give the Sofronitsky Fantasie another chance or two, also in comparison to other performers. He's one step above them all. Sofronitsky, like Horowitz, is one of the most respected Scriabin interpreters. He was married to Scriabin's daughter.


----------



## flamencosketches

I first heard about Scriabin a couple months ago. I always knew there was something there, but after listening to a couple interpreters (Piers Lane, Vladimir Ashkenazy) on the Études and Sonatas I was interested, but kinda left for want of something. Not sure what was missing. But after recently hearing Sofronitsky play Scriabin, my eyes are opened. He plays his music beautifully. So harmonically rich and weird and dreamlike. Like something from another universe. I'm going to listen more, and to more interpreters like perhaps Horowitz who some have been giving similar praise in this thread. But I have a feeling he might rank as one of the greatest composers for solo piano to me.

I haven't heard any of his other music. Can anyone recommend me a solid recording of some of the symphonies?


----------



## DeepR

flamencosketches said:


> I haven't heard any of his other music. Can anyone recommend me a solid recording of some of the symphonies?


Welcome aboard. There are many treasures in store for you. 
As for the orchestral music, I recommend the sets by Muti and Ashkenazy. Both have their strong and weaker points. In general I'd say the symphonic poems ("symphonies" 4 and 5) are done best by Muti and the Symphonies (1-3) by Ashkenazy. With the complete Ashkenazy set you also get the wonderful Piano Concerto and the short Reverie.


----------



## Janspe

During my trip to England I went through the ten sonatas twice, in interpretations by Dmitri Alexeev and Garrick Ohlsson. In general I tended to prefer the latter for his stunnigly clear textures, but both had very interesting things to say and I'm happy to have heard them both!

My favourites at the moment are the 5th, the 7th and the 9th sonatas. Out of the earlier ones, the 1st and the 3rd opened themselves to me more this time around (the 2nd movement of the 3rd is particularly wonderful!). The 2nd and the 4th I've always loved, and the 6th, the 8th and the 10th are always thought-provoking - in a good way.

All in all, it was great to visit the great cycle again (haven't listened to it like this in years) and I'm now even more conviced of Scriabin's genius.


----------



## CrunchyFr0g

Bach said:


> I just listened to Prometheus twice in a row and sweet christ, that is music directly from God.


That's what he thought too


----------



## Guest

This recital is excellent.








Prelude in B major, Op. 2 No. 3 
Fantasia in B minor, Op. 28 
Piano Sonata No. 4 in F-sharp major, Op. 30 
Waltz in A-flat major, Op. 38 
Album page in E-flat major, Op. 45 No. 1 
Album page in F-sharp major 
Album leaflet, Op. 58 
Poem-Nocturne, Op. 61 
Piano Sonata No. 6, Op. 62 
5 Preludes, Op. 74


----------



## flamencosketches

Is anyone a fan of Maria Lettberg? Her complete Scriabin set is available for very cheap. I am always skeptical of branching out beyond the "big names" in Scriabin: Sofronitsky, Horowitz, Richter; Ashkenazy also gets an honorable mention–but I am looking to discover more younger pianists (under 50 is "young" in my book... hell, as long as they're not dead), and women pianists. What is a particularly impressive performance of hers in Scriabin's repertoire?


----------



## Josquin13

Maria Lettberg is good in Scriabin--her set is comprehensive and well played, and makes an excellent bargain buy, even if I wouldn't place her in my personal pantheon of great Scriabin pianists: 




Among other present day female pianists, I slightly prefer Anna Malikova, and her set of the 10 Piano Sonatas is incredibly well recorded--it almost sounds like the piano is in the room with you:









https://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Pia...71R5ENDGM55&psc=1&refRID=V5TEPFA5H71R5ENDGM55 
(Plus, she's also very good in Chopin Etudes: 



.)

However, Lettberg has a bigger, more romantic sound and projection at the piano, and some listeners might prefer that in Scriabin's world.

But neither is a Scriabin pianist of the first rank, IMO--although excellent pianists.

Other current pianists that I've enjoyed in Scriabin would include Andrei Gavrilov: 



, Roland Pontinen: 



, Anatol Ugorski, Dmitri Alexeev: 



, Bernd Glemser (on Naxos), François Chaplin, Garrick Ohlsson, Wojciech Kocyan: 



, Mikhail Rudy: 



, Ivo Pogorelich: 



, and Jean Louis Steuerman: 



. However, most of these pianists are over 50 now, I expect. Yevgeny Sudbin is under 50 and his Scriabin gets glowing reviews from the British rags, & has won an award or two (but I wasn't overly crazy about it myself).

Among other legendary Scriabin pianists, you didn't mention Igor Zhukov!, who's better than most in this music (dead or alive): 



 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_5tnu_39U; nor Emil Gilels: 



, or Lazar Berman: 



, and historically, Samuel Feinberg: 



, and Alexander Goldenweiser: 



.

My 2 cents.


----------



## flamencosketches

I've never heard Zhukov, in Scriabin or otherwise, but I'll have to check him out. Thanks. Another that I think I should check out is Ugorski. I have heard him play the Piano Concerto with Boulez/CSO but that's about it. 

Anyway, like always, you've given me a lot to work with. I just recently got around to listening to Pelléas et Mélisande in full! :lol: The Abbado/Vienna recording was phenomenal, so just wanted to quickly thank you again for the recommendation.


----------



## Josquin13

I should warn you about Ugorski. His interpretations can be challenging, and may not be to all tastes (therefore sample first). But he has one of most beautiful piano touches I've heard among today's pianists. He produces a gorgeous piano tone. Which is an attractive quality in Scriabin, even if Ugorski's view of the music can be different from others.

You can hear most of Igor Zhukov's Scriabin on You Tube I think--it's definitely worth exploring, IMO. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the rest of the Abbado recording.


----------



## starthrower

I have the Lettberg set but I usually listen to my Ruth Laredo recordings. She is dead and gone and her set is out of print but I bought a used copy several years ago. I don't know which of these women is the better Scriabin pianist but I prefer the sound of Laredo's piano to Lettberg's.

Laredo was inspired to become a concert pianist after attending a performance of Scriabin by Vladimir Horowitz when she was a young girl. She was also known for playing Rachmaninov, and she is buried in the same cemetery just a few yards from the great Russian pianist.


----------



## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> I have the Lettberg set but I usually listen to my Ruth Laredo recordings. She is dead and gone and her set is out of print but I bought a used copy several years ago. I don't know which of these women is the better Scriabin pianist but I prefer the sound of Laredo's piano to Lettberg's.
> 
> Laredo was inspired to become a concert pianist after attending a performance of Scriabin by Vladimir Horowitz when she was a young girl. She was also known for playing Rachmaninov, and she is buried in the same cemetery just a few yards from the great Russian pianist.


Wow, and she is an American? That is badass. Definitely going to look her up.


----------



## NLAdriaan

flamencosketches said:


> Is anyone a fan of Maria Lettberg? Her complete Scriabin set is available for very cheap. I am always skeptical of branching out beyond the "big names" in Scriabin: Sofronitsky, Horowitz, Richter; Ashkenazy also gets an honorable mention-but I am looking to discover more younger pianists (under 50 is "young" in my book... hell, as long as they're not dead), and women pianists. What is a particularly impressive performance of hers in Scriabin's repertoire?


Maria Lettberg's Scriabin recordings are great and deserve a buy, if only for the initiative and the bargain-price. She offers a reference recording, to which you can set off individual recordings of others.


----------



## starthrower

I agree that the Lettberg set is a great bargain by a fine pianist. It was pretty expensive when initially released so at 25 dollars it's a great buy. And the DVD is interesting to watch too. Over the year here some have given it praise, others disdain. But when it comes to interpretation of these works there are strong opinions. For me, I go for the sound, feeling, and phrasing. I don't know anything about it on a pianist's or musician's level.


----------



## DeepR

In other news: the list of compositions Wikipedia page on Scriabin has had an update. It now includes a more comprehensive list of works without opus number and incomplete works. Both interesting and curious, not sure if all of that has been recorded.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Alexander_Scriabin


----------



## DeepR

Surely the two Poemes, Opus 69, are among the most far out pieces Scriabin composed, even for him. Horowitz playing Op. 69 No. 2 always puts a smile on my face. Such an absurdly quirky little piece, yet somehow it makes sense. I doubt that even the most avantgarde, futurist composers would've composed something like that around that time.


----------



## millionrainbows

I just found this 2-CD set used for $14.99, and am very pleased. My only real, serious interest in Scriabin is as a pianist & composer of piano music. I find his symphonies to be lacking.


----------



## flamencosketches

I agree that his symphonies are nothing special. Though I love the orgasmic ending of the Poem of Ecstasy. The epitome of lush, late romantic excess 

I did not get on with Piers Lane’s Scriabin Études. It was great piano playing, but it’s just not Scriabin to me. Shame as it’s a beautiful album cover. I haven’t heard his recordings of the Préludes.


----------



## Bulldog

flamencosketches said:


> I did not get on with Piers Lane's Scriabin Études. It was great piano playing, but it's just not Scriabin to me. Shame as it's a beautiful album cover. I haven't heard his recordings of the Préludes.


Lane does play beautifully, but it's as if he has Chopin on the brain - not idiomatic. The Preludes set is no better. Best to avoid Lane.


----------



## paulbest

Bulldog said:


> Lane does play beautifully, but it's as if he has Chopin on the brain - not idiomatic. The Preludes set is no better. Best to avoid Lane.


thanks for the review,,,least amount of influences from the master Chopin, mixed in with Scriabin, is my cup of tea. 
I do not want Chopinesque Scriabin, if that is possible. 
Yes the Scriabin orchestral, is not too interesting.


----------



## millionrainbows

Ugorski does my favorite Messiaen Catalogue of Birds. The notes say he memorized it & played from memory, which to me is a good sign that he "internalizes" the music. I'm interested in hearing his Scriabin, now...


----------



## millionrainbows

Bulldog said:


> Lane does play beautifully, but it's as if he has Chopin on the brain - not idiomatic. The Preludes set is no better. Best to avoid Lane.


How could Scriabin NOT be a little bit Chopinesque? Explain idiomatic. Should I get Ugorski? I've got Horowitz.


----------



## flamencosketches

millionrainbows said:


> How could Scriabin NOT be a little bit Chopinesque? Explain idiomatic. Should I get Ugorski? I've got Horowitz.


Get Sofronitsky!

I just got Ugorski's Catalogue, on your recommendation. I have yet to hear it all.


----------



## DeepR

About the symphonies (1,2,3): I disagree that they are uninteresting, but I get why some people think they are.
But the two symphonic poems, no way, they are easily two of the greatest symphonic works of all time. :tiphat:


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> How could Scriabin NOT be a little bit Chopinesque? Explain idiomatic. Should I get Ugorski? I've got Horowitz.


I thought about this last night
Sure it is impossible to dis-infect,,,Scriabin from all Chopin-ese,,,semblances. 
But who is complaining when the music is just as lovely as Chopin,,,if not more so lovely than Chopin?
Thus what we are after is ,,,pure-Sciabin,,,like a new fresh mountain stream,,and waterfalls, from another section of the mountain. 
As Flaminco mentions, Sofronitsky seems to offer this pure Scriabin. 
Whereas countless others, no doubt bring us more Chopin-esque, Chopin-ism, Chpopin-ese styles of presenting music, heavily influenced by the great piano writer. 
So yes, we agree, some Chopin-istic semblances will be there, but its much less noticeable in Sofronitsky, 
If that makes any sense. 
IOW I want Scriabin performed closer to Scriabin and as far away as possible from Chopin,,,I do not care /like Chopin. 
But i love Scriabin, a la Sofronitsky. If this makes any sense...
agree the orchestral works by Scriabin, are not his forte, not interested. Including his famous, very popular symphonic poem, which is considered a major ground breaking score in CM. Not interested, its boring. Of course this opinion is comming from a staunch, stubborn 20Th C Modernist, so I am disqualified from voting.


----------



## Larkenfield

Scriabin sounds Chopinesque? Gee, I wonder why! But note the important distinction:

'Scriabin fell in love with Chopin's music. He slept with his music under his pillow at night. He carried his music around with him. In the first decade of Scriabin's published opuses, there are nineteen mazurkas, nine impromptus, three waltzes, three nocturnes, one polonaise and scores of preludes and etudes. Chopinesque titles, but not a page plagiarizes. Scriabin once reduced to tears blurted out, "What if my music does sound like Chopin?! It's not stolen. It's mine…"' -From Scriabin, a Biography by Faubion Bowers.






Scriabin was right. His own music wasn't stolen. Then later on he radically broke away in his own harmonic development and there was more of an etherial, mystical, ecstatic, blissed-out quality of sound. He did so because he was interested in the mystical teachings of Theosophy and studied the writings of Madame Blavatsky, and he went deeper and deeper into it until some thought that he had gone insane. (I never considered him insane but more likely obsessed with his own spiritual evolution and this is the value of understanding the history of a compose like Scriabin, to have greater insight into what he wrote and _why_.) One can start to hear these qualities at the beginning of his 4th Sonata. Compare that with the beginning of his more traditionally conservative 3rd and notice the difference. He was less under Chopin's spell as he got older, but his own compositions respectfully had its roots in Chopin. Then his harmonic language fully blossomed as his own. His 5th Sonata is a favorite because there is that sense of ecstasy. It's a one-movement sonata that seems never to end because it carries into the next dimension... It's music that's trying to break free of its earthy restraints. Fantastic stuff.


----------



## paulbest

early on, perhaps Scriabin and Szymanowski may have been too much under the influence of the great master. Yet later on both became unique , individual, composers in the own style. 
Scriabin is Scriabin 
Szymanowski is Szymanowski 
Neither were Chopin Juniors. 
Both achieved equal status with Chopin. 
That is Chopin is top tier, Szymanowski, Scriabin top tier creative genius. Equal with Chopin, not lesser. 
As I say, there is no chopin in my cd collection, I prefer Scriabin and Szymanowski in the Chopinesque style,,,excuse me, in the late romantic style. .


----------



## flamencosketches

paulbest said:


> early on, perhaps Scriabin and Szymanowski may have been too much under the influence of the great master. Yet later on both became unique , individual, composers in the own style.
> Scriabin is Scriabin
> Szymanowski is Szymanowski
> Neither were Chopin Juniors.
> Both achieved equal status with Chopin.
> That is Chopin is top tier, Szymanowski, Scriabin top tier creative genius. Equal with Chopin, not lesser.
> As I say, there is no chopin in my cd collection, I prefer Scriabin and Szymanowski in the Chopinesque style,,,excuse me, in the late romantic style. .


Agreed. Both composers you named may be superficially Chopinesque, like Schumann and Brahms might be superficially Beethovenian. But that doesn't mean these composers should be presented as an extension of the old master in question. They are wholly original in their own right.


----------



## paulbest

*superficially*, thats the key word here, 
Thanks


----------



## Bulldog

millionrainbows said:


> Explain idiomatic.


As it happens, there are recordings of Scriabin playing his own solo piano music. You can't get more idiomatic than the composer himself at the piano. Compare Scriabin's playing to Lane's - that's all it takes.


----------



## paulbest

This word/idea of Idiomatic, is highly relevant in CM recordings/performances. 
Not always, witness Zoltan Kocsis in Debussy, superior to most french artists. 
But in gerneral we all look to russian forces in russian composers, 
again , *usually*, not always. 
Bartok's SQ;s, IMHO are best performed by Hungarian groups. 
Not always the case, but more often than NOT, the composers land makes for the best interpreters.


----------



## DeepR

DeepR said:


> "The Alexander Scriabin Companion: History, Performance, and Lore"
> 
> New book on Scriabin that was recently published. I'm reading some fragments on Google Books right now. Seems like a very interesting read for Scriabin enthusiasts.


I recently read some more parts of this on Google books. Seems to be a really great resource on all things Scriabin.
Think I'm going to buy this after all.


----------



## paulbest

Thanks for the suggestion/mention. I also will order the book, I want to know how this man fell in love with the great composers music, was completely under his spell, and made a great incredible journey to break away from the great powers of Chopin to go on and score music , equally as great as his idol. 
Will make for a amazing read.


----------



## paulbest

released 2017, a little pricey for my budget at the moment, but at 400 pages i know its worth every penny.
wish list item. 
https://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Sc...bin+companion&qid=1566424653&s=gateway&sr=8-1


----------



## Larkenfield

I'd have to be totally, deeply into Scriabin to consider paying $84 for a biography. https://www.scriabinsociety.com/biography.html

Here are two well-known Scriabin biographies recommended by the Scriabin Society of America: 
Bowers, Faubion (1974). The New Scriabin: Enigma and Answers. Newton Abbot: David & Charles.. 
Bowers, Faubion (1996). Scriabin, a Biography (2nd, revised ed.). New York: Courier Dover Publications. ISBN 978-0-486-28897-0. (1st pub. 1970)


----------



## flamencosketches

^I've heard that the Faubion Bowers bio is really good. I plan on reading it at some point.

I've been listening to a little bit of Scriabin piano music again lately. I picked up this great CD for $5 brand new:









It contains some seriously phenomenal playing and some beautiful music. Earlier recordings than I'm used to with Horowitz.


----------



## Blancrocher

I just bought Alexeev's recent recording of the Preludes unheard (though it's on Spotify for those who would like to sample it). I like his previous Scriabin disks, and Pletnev's op.11 Preludes is one of my favorite recitals--I look forward to comparing these two versions, in particular.


----------



## lextune

paulbest said:


> I do not want Chopinesque Scriabin, if that is possible.


It is possible. And desirable. (And difficult).

The obvious influences of Chopin, (and Liszt), in Scriabin, especially in the earlier works, should come to the fore through Scriabin himself. 
Which is to say that the Interpreter should play Scriabin as if he, or she, has never heard Chopin or Liszt before. If *that* is possible.


----------

