# Need feedback on an audition piece please!



## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Dear fellow TCers, here's one of the pieces I'm writing to audition for a composition class this fall. I'd really appreciate any and all feedback you can give to help me with the audition. I see a lot of highly knowledgeable folks here, so I really, really need you to help me out please...don't hold any punches, I need to fix problems. I've left the analysis in place to communicate my harmonic intent throughout the piece.

I wrote this in sonata form (at least that was my intent), hopefully with all the usual elements and principles (voice leading, progressions, etc.) in place. I.e., no "breaking the rules" here, I've tried to be pretty religious, so please do point out errors or they'll get me in the audition. The visual I had was of a boy (primary theme) courting a girl (secondary)...consequently the primary theme is a bit boisterous and the secondary theme, lyrical. The development section is small, but is hopefully salient enough, as is the overall structure (important).

What I'm hoping for is feedback on the overall structure, correctness (as in following traditional common practice conventions), and of course general aural effect/feel. Also, any aspects you find specifically successful or wanting would help in me improving this piece as well as learning in general. Thanks!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Sounds great, some nice things. Harmonically it's pretty tight I think. In bars 13 and 14 , I don't believe your left hand is varied enough. In bar 21, the top note of the right hand chords is not varied enough which you hear more than the other notes, so it sounds like your bouncing on the same spot. Bars 29-33, the rhythm sounds a bit tedious with the tie and 16th, also in the last line. usually I think the primary theme comes in a transposed or switch from minor to major form rather than reappearing exactly the same way, so that there would be some development in the theme. Just my opinion.


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## Jacob Brooks (Feb 21, 2017)

The voicings almost always feel rather adventurous, with very little home voicings (likely due to a lack of triads, or 2nd inversion / root relationships). It makes it feel a bit exhausting. A more intuitive way to think about it may be to make it sound "more like Mozart."


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## Alexanbar (May 11, 2016)

A very strange pauses at the logical ends. Every time I expected a several notes in it.


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Sounds great, some nice things. Harmonically it's pretty tight I think. In bars 13 and 14 , I don't believe your left hand is varied enough. In bar 21, the top note of the right hand chords is not varied enough which you hear more than the other notes, so it sounds like your bouncing on the same spot. Bars 29-33, the rhythm sounds a bit tedious with the tie and 16th, also in the last line. usually I think the primary theme comes in a transposed or switch from minor to major form rather than reappearing exactly the same way, so that there would be some development in the theme. Just my opinion.


Thanks a lot! When you say not varied, I presume you're talking about them being simple quarter/half note triads? I meant this to be a homophonic piece, no contrapunctal stuff, which is why the second hand always just adds harmony. Or perhaps I misunderstood what you're saying...could you please clarify?

About the key switch, I do have the primary as minor (c) modulating to relative major (Eb) for the secondary through a transition in exposition and then in recapitulation change both to the minor as is typical. I'm not familiar with primary theme modulating from minor to major, only the secondary. Were you thinking of the secondary theme?


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Jacob Brooks said:


> The voicings almost always feel rather adventurous, with very little home voicings (likely due to a lack of triads, or 2nd inversion / root relationships). It makes it feel a bit exhausting. A more intuitive way to think about it may be to make it sound "more like Mozart."


Thank you! Not sure what you mean by lack of triads: every single chord in this piece is either a triad or a seventh, mostly triad. Some of them are incomplete (missing 5th), was that what you meant? I'd really appreciate if you could clarify so I can fix them if/as necessary.

WRT inversion, I've been indoctrinated against using second inversion triads except with specific intent (like passing, cadential, pedal).  I do use a cadential i64-V, for example at the end. More importantly, I know the audition team will slam me for cavalier usage of second inversion otherwise. If you meant something else, please let me know!


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Big problem is when you change keys to the relative major (E-flat): You completely avoid using the tonic chord until the secondary tonal area comes to a conclusion.

Smaller one: m.67 RH needs a B-natural like the LH has.

I probably could find more small problems but the scrolling score is too time-consuming to start/stop and examine


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Vasks said:


> Big problem is when you change keys to the relative major (E-flat): You completely avoid using the tonic chord until the secondary tonal area comes to a conclusion.
> 
> Smaller one: m.67 RH needs a B-natural like the LH has.
> 
> I probably could find more small problems but the scrolling score is too time-consuming to start/stop and examine


Thanks! Good catch on the B natural, I will fix it and go through the score again for stuff like this (there may be errors in the modulated areas too as I don't change the key signature but just add accidentals).

About your point on tonic chord in the secondary though, my understanding is that you end the transition on a HC rather than an IAC/PAC before entering the secondary so the momentum is maintained, which is what I did. E.g., like in Mozart's K.309. I may be mistaken however. Since this is an important point, I'd appreciate if you could explain further.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

No, the end of the exposition (which is also the end of the secondary tonal area = E-flat major) can be either a half or authentic cadence. That's not important. What is important is when you first move to E-flat you must have close by the new tonic chord so the key is quickly confirmed

If you want more feedback, consider making a PDF of the score so it can be studied more easily.


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Vasks said:


> No, the end of the exposition (which is also the end of the secondary tonal area = E-flat major) can be either a half or authentic cadence. That's not important. What is important is when you first move to E-flat you must have close by the new tonic chord so the key is quickly confirmed
> 
> If you want more feedback, consider making a PDF of the score so it can be studied more easily.


I was actually talking about the same point too (before the secondary theme begins), where I see the transition ending on a HC before starting the secondary theme. I.e., I wanted the key-change and the tonic to appear within the transition, which then moves to a HC before starting the secondary.

However, I do see your point, which is that I don't stay on the tonic at all but quickly move on without establishing/confirming the key change, so it's hard for the listener to clearly make out the modulation. Excellent point, thanks for this. I will extend the transition to confirm the key change.


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to listen and critique. I will really appreciate if others can pitch in as well, as I really value your opinions. My deadline is nearing fast.

I do have another question. I'm planning to submit two compositions for consideration: this one and another somewhat experimental one, which I haven't started. This will in be in ternary form (ABA), with a mode change for the B. How would you indicate the mode change in roman numeral analysis? I Googled, but didn't find an answer.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

For a key signature, with a mode other than Ionian or Aeolian, use the one that has the accidentals the mode uses. For example, if you are using the mode F Dorian, that will use two flats (B-flat and E-flat) so that's your key sig (two flats). As for Roman numerals, the Tonic will be an F major chord (F-A-C) so it'll be I. The Supertonic will be (G-B-flat-D) so it'll be ii. The Mediant will be (A-C-E-flat) which is diminished, so use the iiio RN. etc. 

The only thing I really hope you do is stay away from straying into thinking and hearing pure major or minor keys while being in a mode other than those two.


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## Sekhar (May 30, 2016)

Vasks said:


> For a key signature, with a mode other than Ionian or Aeolian, use the one that has the accidentals the mode uses. For example, if you are using the mode F Dorian, that will use two flats (B-flat and E-flat) so that's your key sig (two flats). As for Roman numerals, the Tonic will be an F major chord (F-A-C) so it'll be I. The Supertonic will be (G-B-flat-D) so it'll be ii. The Mediant will be (A-C-E-flat) which is diminished, so use the iiio RN. etc.
> 
> The only thing I really hope you do is stay away from straying into thinking and hearing pure major or minor keys while being in a mode other than those two.


Sorry if I wasn't clear: I do understand all this (e.g., what numerals to use for the different modes). What I wanted to know was how to indicate the actual mode change. I.e., say the A part that I plan to be in Lydian ends on its I, which is a IV in Ionian. How do I show that on the analysis using roman numerals? In a regular key change, I'd indicate it like say I|C:IV - what's the equivalent for mode change? Do I say I|Ionian:IV or something similar? Think of the vertical bar here as the modulation notation, can't show the real one her in plaintext.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

How did you indicate that the A section is in a mode? 

Also, most of the time a B section is independent of the A section. It has it's own different key signature than the A section; especially when the A section ends "closed" (an authentic cadence). If all that's true for your piece, there would be no need for a common chord pivot notation. The new key sig with a double bar separating B from A is the norm.

Check out a typical Minuet and Trio of Haydn.


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