# TENOR TOURNAMENT (Round 1, Match #1): Corelli vs Kaufmann



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Franco Corelli, Italy, 1921-2003






Jonas Kaufmann, Germany, 1969-






Who's singing did you prefer and why?

This will be a 16 singer tournament so apologies for making you sick of the first aria :lol:


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Kaufmann`s expressionlessness suggests to me that he lacks affinity towards the piece. Hence, he got my sympathy and my vote...


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Two of the worst choices to show off this aria I ever heard.
Tenors are "my thing". And I am certainly in love with Corelli's "real" voice (not this boosted up job that almost sounds like a female -- what a horrid recording) but those two spectacular highs cannot be hidden, even by an inferior recording. Face it, the guy's got charisma and excitement that's tough to beat.
OTOH: Kaufmann sounded more like a baritone and looked like he was out of his element. Embarrassing.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This was an odd experience for me. I expected to enjoy Corelli, but what he sings is such a vague approximation of what's written on the page that the musician in me just feels grumpy. I'm afraid that "high and loud" doesn't quite fulfill my expectations of a tenor. The chorus and orchestra seem to be in different time zones. Kauffmann, lacking squillo, never sounds high; he does hit more of the notes, but doesn't convince me that he shouldn't be singing Siegmund or Parsifal instead.

Pass.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Two of the worst choices to show off this aria I ever heard.
> Tenors are "my thing". And I am certainly in love with Corelli's "real" voice (not this boosted up job that almost sounds like a female -- what a horrid recording) but those two spectacular highs cannot be hidden, even by an inferior recording. Face it, the guy's got charisma and excitement that's tough to beat.
> OTOH: Kaufmann sounded more like a baritone and looked like he was out of his element. Embarrassing.


If you have better recordings please send! I found that matching these recordings wasn't easy. Many include 'ah si ben mio', but I wanted 'di quella pira' only. I also wanted to match live to live. I must admit it grates on my nerves when folks complain about the recordings. I'm not an expert on all voice types and arias. I do my best.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Maybe if you have chosen something that suited Kaufman's voice it might have been more even instead of one of Corelli's specialities. I would say Poor old Kaufmann is like facing a fast bowler on a fifth day pitch.

Flower song from Carmen might have evened things up a bit even if you still prefer Corelli:











Or the Winterstorme from Walkure?

Or a song from Wintereisse?

Maybe Correlli wouldn't make out quite so well with the last two. Frankly illustrating the best of Correlli and the worst of Kaufman is not really a fair comparison

Incidentally I'm not trying to diss Franco as I am an admirer of his singing. I have quite a few of his recordings and think he had a terrific voice. Of course we are not comparing like with like as Correlli never (rightly) attempted German repertoire as far as I know. They were two entirely different singers. One thing they had in common was good looks which made them both eminently marketable.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> If you have better recordings please send! I found that matching these recordings wasn't easy. Many include 'ah si ben mio', but I wanted 'di quella pira' only. I also wanted to match live to live. I must admit it grates on my nerves when folks complain about the recordings. I'm not an expert on all voice types and arias. I do my best.


You've done a great job with these. It's a very tough call to find recordings when not everything is on YouTube and even when it is, the edit doesn't coincide with the desired excerpt. In general with these 'offs' I've been a little frustrated because the available recordings aren't the best examples. In this case Manrico is possibly Kaufmann's least convincing role and the version with Corelli is not the best of his live performances of this cabaletta. However, I'm splitting hairs and I'm just grateful for all your hard work and the chance for these interesting forum activities.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This aria is a litmus test for tenors. Good choice. There aren't many Hoffman fans here, but he is the tenor I would most like to hear live today. Not perfect, but hot and thrilling. That said, comparing him to Corelli is like comparing a Mazda 6 with a Porche Panamera. Corelli makes me want to, figuratively speaking, tear open my bodice. You can hardly hear Hoffman's high C as it is so dark and doesn't have squillo. Corelli is like hearing a Ferrari rev up it's engine a block away over other traffic noise. Help me Jayzus! Thrilling singing with great beauty and conviction even when the sound is not the best. I've heard other arias I like Hoffman much better in. Bonetan is doing a great job on this fun contest!!!! Youtube is a great resource, but it is limited.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Bonetan said:


> If you have better recordings please send! I found that matching these recordings wasn't easy. Many include 'ah si ben mio', but I wanted 'di quella pira' only. I also wanted to match live to live. I must admit it grates on my nerves when folks complain about the recordings. I'm not an expert on all voice types and arias. I do my best.


Don't take it personally. Just that the recordings do come into it in the discussion as a factor. Also the type of material chosen for the particular artists concerned. It is not a criticism of you personally


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> There aren't many Hoffman fans here,


I think we all enjoyed him in _The Tales of Kaufmann_ though! 

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I don't think many tenors can compare with Corelli in his own métier: loud and high Italian opera. Just the way he throws himself into the aria, the voice thrillingly close to destruction, all cilinders going, and yet having enough zing to top it off with a magnificent _squillante_ long high C (?) is the stuff of legend. A high wire act. Not for the faint hearted!

Kaufmann is very subdued in comparison, the voice rather dull, quite expressionless. As usual, the _acuti _ are almost surprising. The aria needs brilliance, excitement which are in short supply with this tenor in this recording.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Handelian said:


> Maybe if you have chosen something that suited Kaufman's voice it might have been more even instead of one of Corelli's specialities. I would say Poor old Kaufmann is like facing a fast bowler on a fifth day pitch.
> 
> Flower song from Carmen might have evened things up a bit even if you still prefer Corelli:
> 
> ...


Right, two very different tenors and approach. It's impossible not to choose Corelli, for me. Just the sound of the voice, the passion with which he sings, always gets me.

Kaufman has a very different vocal approach and sings it with more varied dynamics, but I'm not as fond of his voice.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> This aria is a litmus test for tenors. Good choice. There aren't many Hoffman fans here, but he is the tenor I would most like to hear live today. Not perfect, but hot and thrilling. That said, comparing him to Corelli is like comparing a Mazda 6 with a Porche Panamera. Corelli makes me want to, figuratively speaking, tear open my bodice. You can hardly hear Hoffman's high C as it is so dark and doesn't have squillo. Corelli is like hearing a Ferrari rev up it's engine a block away over other traffic noise. Help me Jayzus! Thrilling singing with great beauty and conviction even when the sound is not the best. I've heard other arias I like Hoffman much better in. Bonetan is doing a great job on this fun contest!!!! Youtube is a great resource, but it is limited.


Interesting automotive comparisons, Seattleoperafan!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> If you have better recordings please send! I found that matching these recordings wasn't easy. Many include 'ah si ben mio', but I wanted 'di quella pira' only. I also wanted to match live to live. I must admit it grates on my nerves when folks complain about the recordings. I'm not an expert on all voice types and arias. I do my best.


Bonetan: Kindly accept my sincere apology to you. I had no idea that you were the one who chose the pairings. I thought that posters sent you their choices and you complied with their requests.
If I had any idea that you chose all the pairings I certainly would not have criticized them because I know you have a difficult job to begin with and it can be a challenging decision to have to be the one to constantly choose the pair-ups.
Mea Culpa, friend.
Nina


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I don't think many tenors can compare with Corelli in *his own métier: loud and high Italian opera.* Just the way he throws himself into the aria, the voice thrillingly close to destruction, all cilinders going, and yet having enough *zing* to top it off with a magnificent _squillante_ long high C (?) is *the stuff of legend*. A high wire act. *Not for the faint hearted!*


I wasn't aware that there was a métier known as "loud and high Italian opera," although, if there is, I suppose _Il Trovatore_ may be a likely representative of it. Just the other day we had Bastianini bellowing his way through "Il balen," and there's always the anvil chorus for true connoisseurs of noise.

Listening to Corelli, the zinging stuff of legend, turn music into a demolition derby, in which the more parts of the car that fly off the more exciting it is, always reminds me how pathetically fainthearted I am as an operaphile. I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's quip, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member." I'm nonetheless grateful to all here who put up with me.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Bonetan: Kindly accept my sincere apology to you. I had no idea that you were the one who chose the pairings. I thought that posters sent you their choices and you complied with their requests.
> If I had any idea that you chose all the pairings I certainly would not have criticized them because I know you have a difficult job to begin with and it can be a challenging decision to have to be the one to constantly choose the pair-ups.
> Mea Culpa, friend.
> Nina


Appreciate you Nina. The tournament matchups are all me. The ones that are sent to me will have (by request) in the title.

For those concerned about matchups favoring certain singers, this is a tournament and 'styles make fights' so to speak. In the next round Corelli may find himself at a stylistic disadvantage. Also in a tournament a giant like Corelli is not going to meet his equal in the 1st round. My primary goal was to find an aria that all 16 singers have recorded on YouTube.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> *Listening to Corelli, the zinging stuff of legend, turn music into a demolition derby, in which the more parts of the car that fly off the more exciting it is*, always reminds me how pathetically fainthearted I am as an operaphile.


This will stick with me for eternity :lol: brilliant!


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Corelli, for me.

I think that particular transfer is pitched too high, which exaggerates the vibrato, but even if it we were listening through two tin cans with a bit of string it is a very exciting performance and the top of the voice is remarkably free.

Kaufmann achieves something of a coup: a _dull_ "Di quella pira"? Effortful and tired-sounding. Momentarily there is some ring with those high notes e.g. 2:02-2:07, followed by a return to that dark sound which is habitual and 2:17-2:23 followed by near inaudibility singing with the chorus...


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

MAS said:


> Right, two very different tenors and approach. It's impossible not to choose Corelli, for me. Just the sound of the voice, the passion with which he sings, always gets me.
> 
> Kaufman has a very different vocal approach and sings it with more varied dynamics, but I'm not as fond of his voice.


I'm the same - Corelli every time.

I think before we focus on their differences, though, it is worth recapping on the operas they do share:

_Carmen_, _Werther_, _Adriana Lecouvreur_, _Andrea Chenier_, _Tosca_, _Trovatore_, _Don Carlo_, _Fanciulla del West_, _Forza del Destino_, _Aida_, _Pagliacci_, _Cavalleria Rusticana_...

...among others.

Personally, I can say that Corelli would be my preference in all these roles... which takes some doing.

It is true that Corelli was no Florestan, Siegmund or _Parsifal_.

Likewise, Kaufmann is in no danger, so far, of being the Raoul, Pollione, _Poliuto_ or Calaf of his generation.

It would take more than a few Wagnerian roles to convince me that this is close to being an 'even' match.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Revitalized Classics said:


> I'm the same - Corelli every time.
> 
> I think before we focus on their differences, though, it is worth recapping on the operas they do share:
> 
> ...


One thing it takes is a tolerance for swooping, scooping, gargling, and murdering the French language. Kaufmann may not be French, but at least he can bring to that repertoire some intelligence and taste.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Full disclosure, it bothers me that people enjoy Kaufmann's singing and he's considered the tenor of this generation. His technique is so wrong that it's a chore for me to listen to him. Nothing against Kaufmann the man, who is a great artist and person from all I've read and heard, but I don't like what his success means for opera and operatic singing. While Corelli leaves much to be desired here, I think he provides a great contrast to Kaufmann and reminds us of how an elite tenor should sound. Personally there isn't a tenor in the tournament that Kaufmann could beat because of my bias against him. I can't get past a bad singing technique.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

Bonetan said:


> Full disclosure, it bothers me that people enjoy Kaufmann's singing and he's considered the tenor of this generation. His technique is so wrong that it's a chore for me to listen to him. Nothing against Kaufmann the man, who is a great artist and person from all I've read and heard, but I don't like what his success means for opera and operatic singing. While Corelli leaves much to be desired here, I think he provides a great contrast to Kaufmann and reminds us of how an elite tenor should sound. Personally there isn't a tenor in the tournament that Kaufmann could beat because of my bias against him. I can't get past a bad singing technique.


Well said! I second.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> One thing it takes is a tolerance for swooping, scooping, gargling, and murdering the French language. Kaufmann may not be French, but at least he can bring to that repertoire some intelligence and taste.


I love Corelli's voice but when I see that he's in the French rep I turn him right off. I cannot bear his destruction of the beautiful French language. And it doubly annoys me when I read that Romeo is his favorite character. Yuck!


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> One thing it takes is a tolerance for swooping, scooping, gargling, and murdering the French language. Kaufmann may not be French, but at least he can bring to that repertoire some intelligence and taste.


I know we all hear things differently, Woodduck, but when I hear Kaufmann what registers is often the "swooping, scooping, gargling"...

If we take 'Pourquoi me Réveiller'





From the start there is that oddly dark and guttural low register, the change in gear at 0:40 is no balm to these ears and by 0:56 there is that explosive lunge at the high note. Thereafter, we have the disconnected quiet singing which is poor recompense, he yawns his way a bit through 1:26-1:36 and then onwards to another explosive high note at 2:12.

If I exaggerate, which has been known in defence of a favourite singer or two, the impression that remains with me is probably not that of a particularly tasteful singer.

Corelli is by no means perfect:




Starting 4:16

However, _this_ voice is no patchwork. Note the dynamics, the phrasing builds inevitably to the climaxes, the high notes are a glory. The quiet singing still has spin, there is intensity in the singing, trenchant without becoming lugubrious. The language skills are, admittedly...approximate .

Neither are likely to eclipse my memories of first hearing a lot of this music first via the records of Jussi Bjorling, George Thill and later when I listened further, Edmond Clément, André d'Arkor and others...

If I were to show uncharacteristic good manners and concede an - ahem- draw on the French roles  lol I will still claim the Verdi, Puccini, Giordano, Cilea et al. for Corelli...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Revitalized Classics said:


> I know we all hear things differently, Woodduck, but when I hear Kaufmann what registers is often the "swooping, scooping, gargling"...
> 
> If we take 'Pourquoi me Réveiller'
> 
> ...


Yes, we do hear things differently. Actually, though, I hear all the things in Kaufmann's voice that bother other people, and they sometimes bother me too, though less than they bother some. What I do not hear in Kaufmann is the constant slithering and sliding from note to note that Corelli seems to think is good legato style. The man has superior equipment but abysmal taste. I first encountered him in Met broadcasts of the '70s, when I was young but already acquainted with Caruso, Bjorling, Melchior, Bergonzi, Vickers and numerous other tenors. I thought then that Corelli sang like an animal in rut and I still think so, and the ecstatic screams of what I presumed to be his claque made me dislike him even more. I've come to enjoy him somewhat in the repertoire where he belongs - Italian late Romantic opera and verismo - but rarely anywhere else (though I'll grant him a respectable Pollione on Callas's stereo _Norma_.)

Your aversion to Kaufmann's peculiar technique is no greater than my aversion to Corelli's lousy musicianship and his general crudeness that to me suggests mental vacuity. Kaufmann's "Di quella pira" may be unexciting, but Corelli's is just noise, uninfluenced by the fact that it's a piece of music consisting of notes (listen to Caruso for a big voice singing what Verdi wrote). I'm a musician first and an operaphile second - in this case a very distant second. I just couldn't vote in this matchup.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

Hmmm. I'm not voting in this either.

Kaufmann: bland, lacking character, not "bad" but certainly did nothing for me.

Corelli: starts by shouting out the notes, and doesn't improve. This might be one of the worst recordings I've heard by Corelli.

If I had to rank one of them in general, I'd go with Corelli. But on these performances, I like neither.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> This was an odd experience for me. I expected to enjoy Corelli, but what he sings is such a vague approximation of what's written on the page that the musician in me just feels grumpy. I'm afraid that "high and loud" doesn't quite fulfill my expectations of a tenor. The chorus and orchestra seem to be in different time zones. Kauffmann, lacking squillo, never sounds high; he does hit more of the notes, but doesn't convince me that he shouldn't be singing Siegmund or Parsifal instead.
> 
> Pass.


I'm late to the banquet and with most things having been said, I'll second Woodduck's opinion here.
Corelli overdoes it so hard, destroying the cabaletta completely and Kaufmann is in the wrong repertoire. Neither works.

Pass as well.

P.S. As an aside, again, this has been the most strange pairing so far...


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Azol said:


> P.S. As an aside, again, this has been the most strange pairing so far...


I felt like Kaufmann needed to be represented in one of the tournaments, but since I don't think I'll be able to find the necessary recordings to include him in a heldentenor tournament I felt better including him here


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I felt like Kaufmann needed to be represented in one of the tournaments, but since I don't think I'll be able to find the necessary recordings to include him in a heldentenor tournament I felt better including him here


You should be able to find him doing "Wintersturme" or "Amfortas! Die Wunde!" He recorded a Wagner collection, and though I haven't heard all of it I recall his "Rienzi's prayer" as better than most others I've heard.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> You should be able to find him doing "Wintersturme" or "Amfortas! Die Wunde!" He recorded a Wagner collection, and though I haven't heard all of it I recall his "Rienzi's prayer" as better than most others I've heard.


Agreed and I'm sure I can find his prize song as well, but I feel like a proper heldentenor tournament must include some Siegfried, Tristan, and/or Tannhauser...


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I'm voting for Corelli. When he sang it was so in the moment and absolutely thrilling with such power in the voice. No wonder the audience was so excited!

Kaufman is a singer I'm sometimes too dismissive of. Indeed, I thought he was rather good here. But my attention wandered listening to the performance. It didn't draw me in like Corelli's did, though he sang well.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't much like either performance so I'm bowing out. Corelli displays all the worst qualities of can belto Italian tenor singing and Kaufmann sounds as if he's strayed into the wrong opera. Both get the the thumbs down from me.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Really? they want me to use more characters to say Really?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

mparta said:


> Really? they want me to use more characters to say Really?


If the really was a response to my post, then, yes, really.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Corelli’s fiercesome energy and power is certainly commendable, but it almost sounds like sheer yelling to me. Kaufmann’s tone is darker and richer, and I prefer more full-bodied “heldentenor” voices like that rather than stereotypical Italian tenors. I guess hearing Corelli here is a prime example of why the tenor voice has never me attracted me nearly as much as the other vocal categories.


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