# ATTENTION MAHLERIANS: What's the best modern Mahler 6th recording?



## Andolink

As a long time Mahlerian myself I have some ideas on this issue. But what I'm after here is opinions about a recording you think combines the best performance of the Mahler 6th Symphony with the best sound engineering .


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## realdealblues

This one does it for me:


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## Andolink

realdealblues said:


> This one does it for me:


Yes, I have yet to hear it but there's been a growing consensus about that recording from what I've seen on various websites.

Is anyone familiar with the Michael Gielen recording on Hannsler Classics? That's the the other one I haven't yet heard that sounds like my kind of Mahler interpretation.


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## realdealblues

Andolink said:


> Yes, I have yet to hear it but there's been a growing consensus about that recording from what I've seen on various websites.
> 
> Is anyone familiar with the Michael Gielen recording on Hannsler Classics? That's the the other one I haven't yet heard that sounds like my kind of Mahler interpretation.


I have the Gielen recording as well. It's a little different take with some interesting twists in tempo between some of the themes, and while he doesn't do the 3rd hammer blow, I still like it. I know Mahler removed the 3rd hammer blow later on, and I understand why, but I still prefer the 3rd hammer blow. In my opinion though you can never have too many recordings of the 6th.


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## Andolink

So I did a bunch of searches on the internet for any available copies of either the Sanderling or Gielen recordings and came up with nothing. Not even a used copy anywhere!

I guess I'll just have to imagine the glories of these Mahler 6th's for the forseeable future...

Or I could download FLAC files and make my own disc...


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## Lukecash12

Andolink said:


> So I did a bunch of searches on the internet for any available copies of either the Sanderling or Gielen recordings and came up with nothing. Not even a used copy anywhere!
> 
> I guess I'll just have to imagine the glories of these Mahler 6th's for the forseeable future...


That's a bummer.


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## Carpenoctem

Get Boulez with Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=1352463848&sr=8-4&keywords=mahler+symphony+6


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## realdealblues

Andolink said:


> So I did a bunch of searches on the internet for any available copies of either the Sanderling or Gielen recordings and came up with nothing. Not even a used copy anywhere!
> 
> I guess I'll just have to imagine the glories of these Mahler 6th's for the forseeable future...
> 
> Or I could download FLAC files and make my own disc...


The Sanderling is indeed VERY hard to find. I got mine years ago, but I have seen it floating around the internet in flac format for download. Seems like maybe Itunes had it at one point as well.

I bought the Gielen in a box set which is still available but sadly it is quite pricy.
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-1-9-Adagio/dp/B000269QUM


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## davinci

It's always controversial to mention the name Bernstein and Mahler in the same sentence. I've been slammed before by Mahlerians, but I like Lenny with the VPO, 1988. Between Bernstein's two Mahler #6, I think the Vienna outperforms the NY.


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## realdealblues

davinci said:


> It's always controversial to mention the name Bernstein and Mahler in the same sentence. I've been slammed before by Mahlerians, but I like Lenny with the VPO, 1988. Between Bernstein's two Mahler #6, I think the Vienna outperforms the NY.


I love Bernstein's Mahler. His 3rd and 7th with NY are still my preferred recordings. I still have a special place in my heart for Bernstein's 6th. Other than the tempo of the 1st movement of the 6th, Bernstein's Mahler is pretty consistent.

Everyone complains the NY recording is too fast in the first movement and while they may be correct it does conjure up an interesting image in my head.

I am probably the only one who thinks this, but with Bernstein's 6th I don't see Mahler's Hero and Tragic fall. Instead when I listen to it I picture the Nazi's doing a "Goose Step" and the struggle of the Jewish people. The march in the 1st movement is the absolute perfect speed for the Nazi goose step and I almost see Alma's Theme as being a thread of hope for the Jewish people. It's just something I form in my mind. I don't know why, but I can't help but think about Bernstein and Mahler's Jewish heritage brought together. That that March may have been Mahler seeing 40 years into the future and Bernstein capturing what had only happened a few years previous. I'm sure I'm just messed up in the head but the thought still sends chills down my spine.


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## Andolink

I'd also dearly love to have a CD of the Raphael Kubelik DG Mahler 6th from 1968. This was the recording my father had on his reel-to-reel tape deck when I was 12 that I turned on and entered a whole new, musical wonderworld. Boy would that bring back intense nostalgia!


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## davinci

realdealblues said:


> I love Bernstein's Mahler. His 3rd and 7th with NY are still my preferred recordings. I still have a special place in my heart for Bernstein's 6th. Other than the tempo of the 1st movement of the 6th, Bernstein's Mahler is pretty consistent.
> 
> Everyone complains the NY recording is too fast in the first movement and while they may be correct it does conjure up an interesting image in my head.
> 
> I am probably the only one who thinks this, but with Bernstein's 6th I don't see Mahler's Hero and Tragic fall. Instead when I listen to it I picture the Nazi's doing a "Goose Step" and the struggle of the Jewish people. The march in the 1st movement is the absolute perfect speed for the Nazi goose step and I almost see Alma's Theme as being a thread of hope for the Jewish people. It's just something I form in my mind. I don't know why, but I can't help but think about Bernstein and Mahler's Jewish heritage brought together. That that March may have been Mahler seeing 40 years into the future and Bernstein capturing what had only happened a few years previous. I'm sure I'm just messed up in the head but the thought still sends chills down my spine.


I'm glad to find some friendly Lenny fans here. I like your insight into #6 since Mahler did include Jewish themes in his works.


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## Wandering

This is my favorite:

SACD DSD of:










I've heard repeatedly that the sacd/dsd is far better sounding than the regular cd, even on 2.0 speakers, considering the dsd factor, I guess.

_I've not heard the T. Sanderling either_.


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## Xaltotun

realdealblues said:


> I love Bernstein's Mahler. His 3rd and 7th with NY are still my preferred recordings. I still have a special place in my heart for Bernstein's 6th. Other than the tempo of the 1st movement of the 6th, Bernstein's Mahler is pretty consistent.
> 
> Everyone complains the NY recording is too fast in the first movement and while they may be correct it does conjure up an interesting image in my head.
> 
> I am probably the only one who thinks this, but with Bernstein's 6th I don't see Mahler's Hero and Tragic fall. Instead when I listen to it I picture the Nazi's doing a "Goose Step" and the struggle of the Jewish people. The march in the 1st movement is the absolute perfect speed for the Nazi goose step and I almost see Alma's Theme as being a thread of hope for the Jewish people. It's just something I form in my mind. I don't know why, but I can't help but think about Bernstein and Mahler's Jewish heritage brought together. That that March may have been Mahler seeing 40 years into the future and Bernstein capturing what had only happened a few years previous. I'm sure I'm just messed up in the head but the thought still sends chills down my spine.


I have rather similar feelings! Bernstein's Mahler 6 always makes me think of marching armies and jackboots, the end of the world on a mass scale, rather than a personal scale. No conquerors, no winners, just everyone marching in line towards oblivion.


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## davinci

Clovis said:


> This is my favorite:
> 
> SACD DSD of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbado's Mahler 6 is an excellent performance, It's not on the top of my list since he doesn't follow the orginal version...scherzo as 2nd movement. IMO, the original is the only way to perform the 6th; much more powerful, more meaning to it.


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## Wandering

davinci said:


> Clovis said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my favorite:
> 
> SACD DSD of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbado's Mahler 6 is an excellent performance, It's not on the top of my list since he doesn't follow the orginal version...scherzo as 2nd movement. IMO, the original is the only way to perform the 6th; much more powerful, more meaning to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Same with the Fischer unfortunately, tisk tisk. I guess you could tweek it with a computer? Some people've actually done this, I'm even thinking about it.
Click to expand...


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## techniquest

Not sure how modern you want modern to be, but I have always really enjoyed the 1977 Levine recording on RCA with the LSO.


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## Andolink

By modern I'm really just emphasizing the quality of the recorded sound. With the good sound playback system I have, deficiencies in the original recording can get spotlighted and be distracting.

BTW, I had a bit of a disaster as a result of downloading a FLAC file of the Sanderling Mahler 6th. Most of these downloads carry with them a bunch of very persistent and difficult to remove files you absolutely don't want on your computer. I had forgotten about the danger, it having been so long since I last did one of the burn your own disc things.

So, for now I've pretty much given up hearing that Sanderling version. Oh well...


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## Vaneyes

Another nod for Pierre's...

View attachment 9830


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## Wandering

^I have many recordings from the 70's with excellent sound. 

I often can't even tell the difference with recordings that'd come out shortly prior to the ddd (1980-81).

And the new rca Levine/Mahler _boxset_ is a steal, one of many.


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## davinci

Clovis said:


> ^I have many recordings from the 70's with excellent sound.
> 
> I often can't even tell the difference with recordings that'd come out shortly prior to the ddd (1980-81).
> 
> And the new rca Levine/Mahler _boxset_ is a steal, one of many.


In most cases I prefer orchestral music recorded analogue from mid to late 70s. All recording gear and mic techniques were SOTA and there was no compression. Then mixed and mastered digitally. 
I'm a huge Jeff Beck fan and throughout the 80s and 90s he recorded analogue and with tubes. His cds were all ADD at a time when studios had changed over to digital. 
Listen to a CD of an orchestra recorded circa 1979 and I'll bet the analogue sounds better than the early digital recordings.


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## samurai

Clovis said:


> ^I have many recordings from the 70's with excellent sound.
> 
> I often can't even tell the difference with recordings that'd come out shortly prior to the ddd (1980-81).
> 
> And the new rca Levine/Mahler _boxset_ is a steal, one of many.



@ Clovis, I'm so glad to see you write this, as I just ordered that box set from Amazon! I also intend to purchase the Bernstein Mahler Cycle on Sony if/when it dips back below the 30 dollar mark {it's now going for some 33 dollars and change on Amazon}.


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## Wandering

samurai said:


> @ Clovis, I'm so glad to see you write this, as I just ordered that box set from Amazon! I also intend to purchase the Bernstein Mahler Cycle on Sony if/when it dips back below the 30 dollar mark {it's now going for some 33 dollars and change on Amazon}.


People go on and on about this set, as you can tell from the reviews. Even Haitink's excellent recent M3 Chicago was considered second to Levine's by most.

I'm still wondering whether it is the DSD version on the budget Berntein Sony set; It seems that way but I'm skeptical, nothing sounds definitve from the reviews, and there isn't anything advertising it as DSD?

I just purchased a Martinu Symphony set myself By Jarvi/Bamberg.


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## Wandering

I don't no whether you're talking about they same one? The cheapest newest black background, the older re-mastering set mostly bright orange cover, or the Caregie Hall set with the DSD? From the reviews it sounds like the newest black background set has the DSD, but it's suspect?


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## samurai

@ Clovis, it's this one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ruyFLS1qL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


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## Wandering

I'm fairly sure it is DSD from what people say, but that still seems odd to me. I need to ask someone. If I found out I'll let you know.


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## xuantu

*What's your opinion of this particular M6?*

I recently bought this version by Haitink on the CSO Resound label from 2008. It also places the scherzo before the slow movement and, because of its length, spreads onto a 2nd disc. The performance seems to polarize critics. Some find it benefited from Haitink's long association with the score, and is a deep, broad reading of unusual distinction; others deem it a slack, tepid interpretation. I guess my question is if anyone has heard this performance. Is it a bad performance? Does it effectively communicate Mahler's score in any measure? (Or would you recommend another version to investigate out of necessity for me to better appreciate what Mahler wrote?) I had no prior exposure to this symphony. Your opinion will be much appreciated.

I know it sounds quite silly 

Also yes, techniquest, the definition of "modern" is sort of a concern (at least to me). I don't know about OP's criterion. My understanding is that modern means things coming out after the year 2000. The newer, the better.


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## Wandering

^ I sort of seriously doubt it's bad, or real bad atleast. Top notch orchestra and senior Maestro at the helm, how bad could it truely be? I mean what did Haitink do so horrible, play a 'hammer strike' in the andante? I think not! Criticisms and reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. 

If you end up loving the composition, you can always investigate yourself what's considered a top-tear performance.


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## elgar's ghost

I have the Haitink CSO recording of the 6th that Xuantu refers to and, allowing for the swapping around of the two inner movements, prefer it to two of the seven other recordings of the 6th I've got - those by Levi and Jansons (and I don't dislike those, either). I also have Haitink in the 1st, 3rd and 9th (all on Philips) and find much to like in all of them.


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## davinci

I think the Haitink/CSO is worth buying simply for the fact that Amazon has reduced the CD price to $4.60. I have not heard it yet, but I paid $20 for Haitink's #2. The CSO Resound sonics may be the finest I have ever heard for a Redbook CD, but Haitink drags #2 out to 1hr. 22min. 
*xuantu* how did u find the pacing on #6 ?


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## xuantu

> I think the Haitink/CSO is worth buying simply for the fact that Amazon has reduced the CD price to $4.60. I have not heard it yet, but I paid $20 for Haitink's #2. The CSO Resound sonics may be the finest I have ever heard for a Redbook CD, but Haitink drags #2 out to 1hr. 22min.
> xuantu how did u find the pacing on #6 ?


davinci,

Well, that's one thing I was unsure of. Having had just heard the work for the first time with this version, I was hesitant to give my opinion on Haitink's interpretation, though it must be said that the playing of CSO is noble and largely free of sentimentalism. Overall, I didn't find the reading particularly wanting in drive nor in tension (perhaps a little bit in the scherzo). It is not overtly dramatic (to which I think both the slow pacing the conductor's controlled handling of dynamics have contributed), but delivers good punches in the finale. It reveals Mahler 6 as a sonically and emotionally complex work, and I actually like it a lot.

Surprised to know that this version is now available at such a low price. Based on what *Clovis* and *elgars ghost* have said and my own feelings, I now think it is a safe investment.

Best,

xuantu


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## davinci

*xuantu*
Thanks for the info and definitely worth exploring even if only for the CSO recording. But you must delve into the passionate performances of Mahler 6. There are so many good ones as mentioned previously.


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## xuantu

> But you must delve into the passionate performances of Mahler 6. There are so many good ones as mentioned previously.


Sure, I would love to do that. Thanks for your advice! I see that you are a Lenny fan.


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## Jord

I've only ever heard 2 versions of it so my opinion is pretty much invalid but Gergiev with the LSO is amazing


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## Carpenoctem

I have Boulez and it's wonderful, there are many great recordings, Gergiev with LSO also isn't bad.


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## davinci

xuantu said:


> Sure, I would love to do that. Thanks for your advice! I see that you are a Lenny fan.


I grew up watching Lenny hosting a show on CBS called "the Young Peoples' Concerts." Was forced to learn to play clarinet, then played Tympani in High School, with Lenny as my influence. In more recent years, my conductor of choice is KARAJAN.


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## Notwithstanding

xuantu said:


> ...


I have downloaded in FLAC numerous versions of the 6th some of which I have seen praised by many professional and amateur critics (such as Rattle, M. Tilson Thomas, Jansons, Abbado Chicago, Boulez). The one that gets mentioned the most is the Sanderling performance and it is a great performance, hard, passionate and loud. I love it, too.

However, my first choice is the Gielen recording. I downloaded the whole Mahler box set of Gielen and man, it is a stunning set. My preferred versions of the 5th, 6th and 7th are the Gielen performances. For the 5th Barshai rightfully gets praied the most, but I prefer Gielen over it.

I am not only a music lover, but also an audiophile. So, like yourself, I always look for the best performance in best recorded sound. Gielen set has great sound, even better IMHO than the SACD M. Tilson Thomas recordings. Sanderling's 6th and Barshai's 5th have fine sound and they both seem to favour impact over detail, IMHO. But Gielen performances have slightly less focus on impact, but the readings are unbelievably detailed which is essential in Mahler for me. I had great respect for Gielen due to his great Schoenberg Piano Concerto recording with Brendel, but his Mahler cycle elevated him to the top of my favorites list.

For the 9th, I prefer the Abbado Chicago recording over every other recording. I have not heard anyone do the inner movements so majestically, so it's definitely my favorite. It has good sound, too. My second choice is again Gielen. I'm in love with his detailed approach combined with the right dose of passion recorded in great sound...


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## xuantu

Thanks, *Notwithstanding*! I am really tempted to check out both Sanderling and Gielen's Mahler 6, and maybe Boulez's too. I don't see myself loving the Gergiev with LSO, for some reason (sorry, Jord). Alas, it seems that the Sanderling (especially its physical copy) is hard to come by now.


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## Andolink

Notwithstanding said:


> I have downloaded in FLAC numerous versions of the 6th some of which I have seen praised by many professional and amateur critics (such as Rattle, M. Tilson Thomas, Jansons, Abbado Chicago, Boulez). The one that gets mentioned the most is the Sanderling performance and it is a great performance, hard, passionate and loud. I love it, too.
> 
> However, my first choice is the Gielen recording. I downloaded the whole Mahler box set of Gielen and man, it is a stunning set. My preferred versions of the 5th, 6th and 7th are the Gielen performances. For the 5th Barshai rightfully gets praied the most, but I prefer Gielen over it.
> 
> I am not only a music lover, but also an audiophile. So, like yourself, I always look for the best performance in best recorded sound. Gielen set has great sound, even better IMHO than the SACD M. Tilson Thomas recordings. Sanderling's 6th and Barshai's 5th have fine sound and they both seem to favour impact over detail, IMHO. But Gielen performances have slightly less focus on impact, but the readings are unbelievably detailed which is essential in Mahler for me. I had great respect for Gielen due to his great Schoenberg Piano Concerto recording with Brendel, but his Mahler cycle elevated him to the top of my favorites list.
> 
> For the 9th, I prefer the Abbado Chicago recording over every other recording. I have not heard anyone do the inner movements so majestically, so it's definitely my favorite. It has good sound, too. My second choice is again Gielen. I'm in love with his detailed approach combined with the right dose of passion recorded in great sound...


Thanks NWS, very interesting post!
I think I'll now focus my attention on finding a flac of the Gielen 6th or the whole boxed set if necessary. And I completely agree about hearing every detail being critical with Mahler. I had a hunch Gielen would be my kind of Mahler interpreter. I've been very impressed by his work in modernist repertoire for a long time.


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## realdealblues

Notwithstanding said:


> For the 9th, I prefer the Abbado Chicago recording over every other recording. I have not heard anyone do the inner movements so majestically, so it's definitely my favorite. It has good sound, too. My second choice is again Gielen. I'm in love with his detailed approach combined with the right dose of passion recorded in great sound...


Do you mean Abbado with Vienna for Symphony 9? His first recording was with Vienna in the studio (later packaged with his Chicago recordings in a box set), his later ones have been live with Berlin, Mahler Youth, and Lucerne Festival.

I personally still think Rattle's 9 with Berlin is the best modern recording for that particular work though.


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## Notwithstanding

realdealblues said:


> Do you mean Abbado with Vienna for Symphony 9? His first recording was with Vienna in the studio (later packaged with his Chicago recordings in a box set), his later ones have been live with Berlin, Mahler Youth, and Lucerne Festival.
> 
> I personally still think Rattle's 9 with Berlin is the best modern recording for that particular work though.


Well, I was wrong! It was not Abbado Chicago. However it's not Abbado Vienna either!

It's Abbado with the Berliner Philarmoniker. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-9-Gustav/dp/B000063WRS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I haven't listened to his Vienna recording, however I've read everywhere that the Berlin recording is far better than his Vienna recording.

...

As for the Rattle 9th, I remember not finding in it the same level of energy and passion that the Abbado Berlin recording has. But I am tempted to revisit the Rattle 9th after your comment... Though I cannot say the sound quality of the Abbado Berlin 9th doesn't leave a lot to be desired. It's good, but not great.


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## Vaneyes

elgars ghost said:


> I have the Haitink CSO recording of the 6th that Xuantu refers to and, allowing for the swapping around of the two inner movements, prefer it to two of the seven other recordings of the 6th I've got - those by Levi and Jansons (and I don't dislike those, either). I also have Haitink in the 1st, 3rd and 9th (all on Philips) and find much to like in all of them.


I'm surprised to hear the buzz about that 90-minute slowpoke of CSO/Haitink's. Of course I'm from the school that says M6 doesn't need two CDs. CSO/Solti, now we're talking.

The Boulez has already and rightly been mentioned. But there's also Herbig's on Berlin Classics. That's just pure artistry. I particularly shake my head in wonderment and joy when I hear him reproduce Mahler's menacing passages. The teasings of black and white, night and day.


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## Wandering

^That Abbado Berlin M9 Live, that's one of my favs, big time, and on one disc! Love hearing the audience roar at the end. I made a mp3 of it for my player, I was listening to it today actually.


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## Vaneyes

Notwithstanding said:


> Well, I was wrong! It was not Abbado Chicago. However it's not Abbado Vienna either!
> 
> It's Abbado with the Berliner Philarmoniker. This one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-9-Gustav/dp/B000063WRS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> I haven't listened to his Vienna recording, however I've read everywhere that the Berlin recording is far better than his Vienna recording.
> 
> ...
> 
> As for the Rattle 9th, I remember not finding in it the same level of energy and passion that the Abbado Berlin recording has. But I am tempted to revisit the Rattle 9th after your comment... Though I cannot say the sound quality of the Abbado Berlin 9th doesn't leave a lot to be desired. It's good, but not great.


You're right about the BPO/Abbado M9 sound. A broadcast recording I heard was better, but then it didn't have the benefit? of patching two concerts.

Of the closely-released M3, M7, and M9 from this collaboration, I think the M7 is most successful in all respects. It rotates with CSO/Solti M7 in my Mahler cycle starting lineup. Gielen's M7 (his best Mahler, IMO) was bounced with a couple of others.


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## Notwithstanding

Vaneyes said:


> You're right about the BPO/Abbado M9 sound. A broadcast recording I heard was better, but then it didn't have the benefit? of patching two concerts.
> 
> Of the closely-released M3, M7, and M9 from this collaboration, I think the M7 is most successful in all respects. It rotates with CSO/Solti M7 in my Mahler cycle starting lineup. Gielen's M7 (his best Mahler, IMO) was bounced with a couple of others.


I'm yet to listen to the Abbado Berlin 7th. Moved up in my priorities after your comment...


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## Wandering

^I have the Lucerne M7 with Abbado, haven't watched it yet. I've had it a couple weeks now, simply haven't got around to it. Haven't heard his Abbado Berlin M7, need to though, big fan of his Chicago M7, _I'm a big fan of Barenboim M7 on CD also._


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## realdealblues

Notwithstanding said:


> I haven't listened to his Vienna recording, however I've read everywhere that the Berlin recording is far better than his Vienna recording.
> 
> As for the Rattle 9th, I remember not finding in it the same level of energy and passion that the Abbado Berlin recording has. But I am tempted to revisit the Rattle 9th after your comment... Though I cannot say the sound quality of the Abbado Berlin 9th doesn't leave a lot to be desired. It's good, but not great.


I have both of Abbado's 9ths and agree that Abbado's Berlin 9th is better than his Vienna, but the audio in Berlin is no where near what it should be for such a modern recording. If you have the Berlin, then yes you need not seek out the Vienna recording unless you just want to hear how Abbado has advanced in his Mahler.

I am not a Rattle "fan" so to speak. I don't seek out his recordings or anything, and after hearing his first recording of Mahler's 9th live with Vienna I wasn't real interested in hearing his second recording with Berlin. But his second with Berlin does everything right in the 9th for me. After I had heard this recording I later came across the review from the great Mahler reviewer Tony Duggan.

Tony wrote this:
"After reaching the end of the new recording for the first time, among the strongest feelings I had overall was how it miraculously seemed to have in it all the elements that I admired most in my five elect recordings, pointing me towards a remarkable thought that I might even be in the presence of an ideal recording of Mahler's Ninth. Here is the clarity, the honesty, the "Brueghelesque" primary coloured toughness, the Stoicism of Klemperer, promoting the work as precursor of Modernist musical thought. But this is tempered by the definite old-world mellowness of expressive legato that recalls Walter at his most persuasive, especially where the emotional core calls for it. Then, when needed, the "dark night of the soul" that Horenstein brings throws its broad shadow across the landscape and threatens to trouble the waking hours. The extra emotional charge of Barbirolli runs through it like a rich vein of feeling too but, as with Sir John, it never threatens to overwhelm and preserves that crucial head/heart balance Barbirolli was so good at in Mahler. If this wasn't enough, Rattle also seems to share Haitink's ability to simply let the music speak for itself overall. A feeling that the music is playing itself, that there is minimal intervention, a superb care for score inner detail that lets you hear aspects that, even after decades, you had not noticed before. This last is an extra plus to the new Rattle recording for me. It is as if every bar has been rethought and with an orchestra that clearly knows the work intimately we the listener can experience something genuinely new that moves the work into another era. Where Haitink's was the Mahler Ninth of the late 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century, this new Rattle is the Mahler Ninth of the early 21[SUP]st[/SUP]. Be very clear, however, that this apparent bar by bar rethinking does not result in the kind of strangling "micromanagement" that spoilt Rattle's recording of Maher's Fifth with the same orchestra. Rattle never puts a foot wrong in delivering for us a complete view of this work that satisfies at a very deep level indeed."

This was exactly how I felt after listening to it. Rattle combined the best of the classic recordings from Klemperer, Walter, Barbirolli, into a perfect match of old school values and a wonderful modern sound.


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## Guest

I recently acquired Eschenbach's recording of the 6th on Ondine - primarily to obtain a recording of the Piano Quartet. But I have really enjoyed the symphony as well.









After that one, though, I have to say I really enjoy Boulez with the VPO.


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## realdealblues

DrMike said:


> I recently acquired Eschenbach's recording of the 6th on Ondine - primarily to obtain a recording of the Piano Quartet. But I have really enjoyed the symphony as well.


I did the exact same thing. I wanted Eschenbach's Piano Quartet.


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## xuantu

Vaneyes said:


> The Boulez has already and rightly been mentioned. But there's also Herbig's on Berlin Classics. That's just pure artistry. I particularly shake my head in wonderment and joy when I hear him reproduce Mahler's menacing passages. The teasings of black and white, night and day.


I think now I'll have to make the Herbig M6 the top priority on my shopping list. Tony Duggan also gave this a very strong recommendation!

Also, now it seems obvious to me that Rattle Berlin is the M9 to get, and if I want to hear M7, I'll go for Abbado Berlin.

Wow, thanks for your posts, guys! They really show me a direction!

(As for the Mahler piano quartet, I am more interested in getting a Virgin 2CD set coupling it with the 3 Brahms piano quartets, played by Domus and currently listed at $7.12 on amazon, which I think must be a fabulous deal!)


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## Wandering

^As far as deals go, still nothing beats Bertini, though the EMI Complete Edition might equal it. The new Sony Bernstein boxset and the Levine boxset come close also.










I'll keep the Eschenbach in mind, _especially_ for the symphony, unlike you guys, having it simply be a _lovely_ addition.


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## Vaneyes

xuantu said:


> I think now I'll have to make the Herbig M6 the top priority on my shopping list. Tony Duggan also gave this a very strong recommendation!
> 
> Also, now it seems obvious to me that Rattle Berlin is the M9 to get, and if I want to hear M7, I'll go for Abbado Berlin.
> 
> Wow, thanks for your posts, guys! They really show me a direction!
> 
> (As for the Mahler piano quartet, I am more interested in getting a Virgin 2CD set coupling it with the 3 Brahms piano quartets, played by Domus and currently listed at $7.12 on amazon, which I think must be a fabulous deal!)


Funny thing, for a couple of decades I carried a grudge re Herbig Mahler, after seeing him conduct a seriously-sleepy Mahler 7. This M6 (performed some 7 years later) more than made up for that miscue.

To what I said earlier about 2CD M6s, I do make one exception in that regard. The Philharmonia/Barbirolli (EMI CMZ 7 67816 2, rec. 1967, Scherzo - Andante order, shown below). There's a later remastering, but with the Andante - Scherzo order.

View attachment 9956


Regarding Barirolli's M9 (rec. 1964), hear this reissue (shown below), if you have not. Much better sound than earlier editions. It significantly enhanced my enjoyment of this performance.

View attachment 9957


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## Notwithstanding

realdealblues said:


> This was exactly how I felt after listening to it. Rattle combined the best of the classic recordings from Klemperer, Walter, Barbirolli, into a perfect match of old school values and a wonderful modern sound.


Wow! I have to get that Rattle 9th now! I have his 9th with the Birmingham CSO and I wasn't impressed. But I like his Berg and Schoenberg recordings and I have seen him and Berlin SO perform live Beethoven 7th a short while ago and it was amazing. So I respect him and the review approved by you is quite convincing...


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## Wandering

^Are you talking about this edition?


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## Wandering

I'd made a Flac lossless of the abbey road before I donated it the library. The only copy I have on cd now is the one above, it sounds fine to me.


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## Vaneyes

Clovis said:


> ^Are you talking about this edition?


That's the copy (1989) I had before the ART remastering (2002). I found the latter a considerable improvement.


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## Wandering

As I said, it sounds fine to me. That sorta irks me though, I should've donated it. 

*Yosemite Sam outburst!*


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## Andolink

Notwithstanding said:


> Wow! I have to get that Rattle 9th now! I have his 9th with the Birmingham CSO and I wasn't impressed. But I like his Berg and Schoenberg recordings and I have seen him and Berlin SO perform live Beethoven 7th a short while ago and it was amazing. So I respect him and the review approved by you is quite convincing...


I just put my order in for this one because of this thread. Excited to hear it!


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## Wandering

I noticed more of that '_hissing_ during silence' with the older remastered Barbirolli M9, that's about it.


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## Andolink

Does anyone know of any place on the internet where a safe and reliable flac of the Thomas Sanderling recording of M6 is available?


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## Notwithstanding

Andolink said:


> Does anyone know of any place on the internet where a safe and reliable flac of the Thomas Sanderling recording of M6 is available?


Is it allowed to share links here?

Well, nevermind. I'll pm you the link.


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## Notwithstanding

Listening to the Rattle BPO M9 now... Will share my impression later...


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## realdealblues

Notwithstanding said:


> Listening to the Rattle BPO M9 now... Will share my impression later...


I hope you enjoyed it. I honestly think he got it right this time.


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## Andolink

Yesterday I finally got the opportunity to hear the Sanderling recording and OH MY GOD!

I now totally understand all the enthusiasm about this performance! This is a masterpiece in the art of conducting. I love the way Sanderling keeps the drama and emotion under rather tight control earlier on within movements and over the course of the whole symphony. He really understands how to ratchet up tension perfectly over the 80 minute span of the piece so that by the time we reach the Finale, it becomes a truly shattering succession of musical events. He totally avoids the mistake of so many other Mahler conductors (Bernstein, Solti, et. al.) in making too much of the earlier climaxes in the symphony and thus sapping emotional energy too soon. The restraint Sanderling displays in the first movement has the payoff of allowing the climaxes that come later to have all the more impact. The very gradual intensification over the course of movements I-III very effectively (and rightly IMO) direct the focus of attention on that extraordinary Finale as the apotheosis of all that leads up to it. And in Sanderling's hands, that Finale is by several degrees, more devastating than in any other performance I've ever heard. 

I also very much liked the sound of the St. Petersburg Philharmonic, especially the woodwind section in this recording. That distinctively rustic sound of the oboes for example and the somewhat forward presence of the woodwinds in general is very nice.

So, this Mahler 6th is my new favorite as it seems to be that of a lot of others around here and elsewhere.


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## realdealblues

Congrats Andolink, glad you got to hear it and enjoyed it so much


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## davinci

Andolink...You are lucky. I've been looking since all the praise from this thread. CD is unavailable on Amazon, Arkiv, CD Universe and Ebay.


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## Andolink

Lucky indeed.

I got the recording (in the form of a link to flac files for download) from another contributor to this thread. Without this generosity, I might never have heard this. I'll PM you with the link he provided to me.


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## davinci

Andolink said:


> Lucky indeed.
> 
> I got the recording (in the form of a link to flac files for download) from another contributor to this thread. Without this generosity, I might never have heard this. I'll PM you with the link he provided to me.


Many thanks, Andolink. For now I'll be listening to it on my iMac. It's odd that there are no used CDs for sale; I guess it means this Mahler 6 is a keeper. Thanks again.


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## fchekani

Krajan/BPO and Mitropoulos/NYPO are two different versions of Mahler 6th symphony but both are impressive.


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## BillT

Anybody for the San Francisco / Tilson Thomas recording? I sure have enjoyed it a few times live! 

- Bill


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## Jpbogers

*Spotify and Qobuz*



davinci said:


> Many thanks, Andolink. For now I'll be listening to it on my iMac. It's odd that there are no used CDs for sale; I guess it means this Mahler 6 is a keeper. Thanks again.


Please note that thuis recording is available through Spotify and Qobuz streaming


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## hpowders

I favor Bernstein/NY Philharmonic but I also like Boulez/Vienna Philharmonic.


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## nightscape

Eschenbach/Philadelphia is the one I seem to go back to the most. Great modern recording.


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## omega

*Sinopoli's Sixth : the most intense*

Without any doubt, I'll go for *Giuseppe Sinopoli conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra (DG)[\B]. Sound engineering is excellent (studio recorded in the early 90's). 
Sinopoli has always had a very subjective interpretation of Mahler's work ; sometimes, it seems inappropriate. But what he does with Mahler's sixth is outstanding. His interpretation is really cold, cruel, painful, terribly dramatic and pessimistic - but Sinopoli doesn't leave on the side some more emotional moments.
The best parts are definitely the Andante, which he plays very slowly (it lasts over 19'), with a real dramatic tension (the glissando of the string, foollowed by the oboe theme is absolutely fantastic), and the Finale, also played slower than usual (35'). The Finale is really an intensse journey to distress, ponctuated by those terrifying hammer stocks and drum rolls :devil:.
Paying greater attention to the percussions (but without forgetting the excellent strings), and daring adapting the tempi to the gravity of this symphony, Sinopoli's recording is my refence.
I also own Abbado's interpretation with the Berliner Philharmoniker, which is also very good... but trust me and try Sinopoli.







(The 6th doesn't seem to be available on a separate disc, but only with the complete set).*


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## Alfacharger

My choice would be Benjamin Zander's recording. It was three discs for the price of one. The third disc is a discussion disc where Zander explains the history and his interpretation of the work. The first disc has the movements 1-3 with the scherzo placed second. The second disc give us two finales. One with two hammer blows and one with three and any changes associated with the version.

Zander is a committed Mahlerian and his unfinished cycle of the symphonies (he did not get to record to cd 2, 7 and 8) and songs are top notch.


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## JakeBloch

*Concur - Sentimental Favorite in more than 1 way*



Andolink said:


> I'd also dearly love to have a CD of the Raphael Kubelik DG Mahler 6th from 1968. This was the recording my father had on his reel-to-reel tape deck when I was 12 that I turned on and entered a whole new, musical wonderworld. Boy would that bring back intense nostalgia!


I bonded with this version as well - it has the pain, anguish, suffering - whatever it is, just perfectly played-out. The music is very sentimental, rapturous.

Funny event in my life: at Oberlin, I was an art major, but took a music course from the Conservatory and was failing the course, so I spent some time with the instructor and he said, when I mentioned Mahler's 6th, that *the first movement was like one long shot of sperm*. Our visit ended shortly thereafter, and I got a C- on the grade, whew!

There is no greater 6th that I have heard.

That said, RK's 8th from the same set is unsuccessful. Proof is that I heard it many times, trying to connect, and it never worked. Then I heard the 8th from one of the recent complete sets (it was Tennstedt, London Phil Orch) and I LOVED IT.

So definitely, seek out the RK set. Current Amazon price is $34 for a used set.


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## Andolink

Thanks Jake for the story. There definitely is a sexual aspect to the ecstasy that runs through Mahler's music as your Prof. rightly alludes to.

I'm not one for getting boxed sets but I do own the Kubelik _Das Lied von der Erde_ with Janet Baker and that's also an amazing performance.


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## JakeBloch

My pleasure, Ando. This type of infantile, almost congenital bond with a particular performance has happened to me only a few times...

Haitink Brahms Symphonies, Etc 4-LP boxed set (picture of Haitink reading book, portrait of Brahms in background)
Davis Sibelius Symphonies, Etc 4-LP boxed set picture of Munch's 'The Scream')
Heifetz Brahms Violin Concerto

I love boxed sets - cheaper per disc, less-popular works of a great composer are often very good, I am sort-of a completist, and sometimes I get totally unknown music that rocks (like the 100 CD Russian Legends from Brilliant).

I also appreciate hearing less-than great music, as it helps me appreciate the great stuff.


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## chalkpie

Clovis said:


> This is my favorite:
> 
> SACD DSD of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard repeatedly that the sacd/dsd is far better sounding than the regular cd, even on 2.0 speakers, considering the dsd factor, I guess.
> 
> _I've not heard the T. Sanderling either_.


I own the standard CD of this, and sad to say it SOUNDS terrible. A mid-hall recording with blankets over the speakers. Shame, since I own a ton of DG recordings and usually love them. I'm not surprised the SACD sounds better.


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## chalkpie

Clovis said:


> ^As far as deals go, still nothing beats Bertini, though the EMI Complete Edition might equal it. The new Sony Bernstein boxset and the Levine boxset come close also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll keep the Eschenbach in mind, _especially_ for the symphony, unlike you guys, having it simply be a _lovely_ addition.


LOOOOOOOVE the Bertini set! Back in my Mahler Heyday, I spent a lot of time with this one and it may be my total favorite from a single set. The only thing that bugs me is the intonation of the singing on Das Lied, but its not a deal breaker.


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## KRoad

omega said:


> Without any doubt, I'll go for *Giuseppe Sinopoli conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra (DG)[\B]. Sound engineering is excellent (studio recorded in the early 90's).
> Sinopoli has always had a very subjective interpretation of Mahler's work ; sometimes, it seems inappropriate. But what he does with Mahler's sixth is outstanding. His interpretation is really cold, cruel, painful, terribly dramatic and pessimistic - but Sinopoli doesn't leave on the side some more emotional moments.
> The best parts are definitely the Andante, which he plays very slowly (it lasts over 19'), with a real dramatic tension (the glissando of the string, foollowed by the oboe theme is absolutely fantastic), and the Finale, also played slower than usual (35'). The Finale is really an intensse journey to distress, ponctuated by those terrifying hammer stocks and drum rolls :devil:.
> Paying greater attention to the percussions (but without forgetting the excellent strings), and daring adapting the tempi to the gravity of this symphony, Sinopoli's recording is my refence.
> I also own Abbado's interpretation with the Berliner Philharmoniker, which is also very good... but trust me and try Sinopoli.
> View attachment 37701
> 
> (The 6th doesn't seem to be available on a separate disc, but only with the complete set).*


*

Having this cycle and having read your recommendation I listened to it last night. I did enjoy it and will (when time allows) listen to the Bernstein NYPO which I also possess. But, I just gotta say, Darth Vader was weighing heavily in my mind as I listened... I never liked Star Wars and its connection with the aural imagery No. 6 conjured up in my ears mind is, well, unfortunate. Damn.*


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## KRoad

Sooo... Just listened to the Bernstein with NYPO. Sorry, omega but I definately prefer the Bernstein over the Sinopoli. Just saying.


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## Cosmos

Bernard Haitink with the CSO


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## hpowders

I'm quite happy with Boulez/Vienna Philharmonic believe it or not.


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## Becca

I am resurrecting this thread in order to ask one question...

Does anyone know if there is a full copy of Barbirolli's M6 from the Proms (i.e. NOT the studio or Berlin versions) available somewhere for streaming? I found a copy of the 1st movement only on youtube and was intrigued to hear the rest especially as reviews indicate that it doesn't have some of the questionable tempi issues of his commercial recording. I know that I can buy a used copy for $18 but I am not about to do that until I have a better idea of its worth especially as I also just discovered the incredible Sanderling recording.


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## hpowders

Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic. Devastating performance. Good sound.


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## Joe B

Deleted, incorrect information. Sorry.


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## Becca

Joe B said:


> Seek and you shall find.................listen and you shall enjoy!
> 
> This really is a great performance.


Thank you but that is the studio recording, not the live Proms concert. You can tell by the timing of the 1st movement - 21:17 vs 19:08 for the Proms.


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## Becca

This is the 1st movement of the Proms performance...


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## wkasimer

Becca said:


> I am resurrecting this thread in order to ask one question...
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a full copy of Barbirolli's M6 from the Proms (i.e. NOT the studio or Berlin versions) available somewhere for streaming? I found a copy of the 1st movement only on youtube and was intrigued to hear the rest especially as reviews indicate that it doesn't have some of the questionable tempi issues of his commercial recording. I know that I can buy a used copy for $18 but I am not about to do that until I have a better idea of its worth especially as I also just discovered the incredible Sanderling recording.


Berkshire Record Outlet has new copies for half that price.


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## Merl

I really like this one a lot......powerful and precise with a more optimistic-sounding first movement (my preference for it)........


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## Larkenfield

Outstanding recording. Jansons also plays the middle two movements in _Mahler's_ published order and not Alma's unwarranted, meddling change years after his death.


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## Polyphemus

I have been a fan Of Michael Tilson Thomas since his tenure with the London Symphony. His Mahler 3 from that period is still one of my favourites.
His Mahler is always striking. His cycle with the San Francisco Symphony is superb and the 6th is one of the strongest performances in his cycle. strongly recommended.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I have the Barbirolli proms but still prefer the studio recording on EMI. It's devastating both in sound and performance. That one and Bernstein DG are my two favorites. Another great one is Van Beinum live from the late 50s, but the sound is poor.


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## Totenfeier

Barbirolli, Bernstein, and Boulez.


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## Pugg

High on my list for modern recordings as OP ask in 2012


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## Granate

Barbirolli, Tennstedt Studio, Bernstein WPO and Solti CSO...


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## SiegendesLicht

realdealblues said:


> Everyone complains the NY recording is too fast in the first movement and while they may be correct it does conjure up an interesting image in my head.
> 
> I am probably the only one who thinks this, but with Bernstein's 6th I don't see Mahler's Hero and Tragic fall. Instead when I listen to it I picture the Nazi's doing a "Goose Step" and the struggle of the Jewish people. The march in the 1st movement is the absolute perfect speed for the Nazi goose step and I almost see Alma's Theme as being a thread of hope for the Jewish people. It's just something I form in my mind. I don't know why, but I can't help but think about Bernstein and Mahler's Jewish heritage brought together. That that March may have been Mahler seeing 40 years into the future and Bernstein capturing what had only happened a few years previous. I'm sure I'm just messed up in the head but the thought still sends chills down my spine.


I hear the sound of jackboots in Mahler's 6th too, but in a different context. The outlay of the symphony makes me think of Erich Maria Remarque's "Time to Live and Time to Die". And the slow movement stands for two people who have found love, even if for a short time, while their whole world comes crashing down.


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## Merl

Surprised no-one's mentioned this one. I really rate it.










And the 6th from this set is far from shoddy too. Not as impressive as his 6th with the LSO but still superb (a less brash and more broad account). Lovely sound.


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## AfterHours

I don't think Bernstein/VPO (DG) has ever been topped for his 6th.


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## Phil loves classical

Boulez is the only one that works for me from those I heard, I prefer rhythmic consistency to reinforce form and structure over expression.


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## SuperTonic

Pugg said:


> High on my list for modern recordings as OP ask in 2012


I attended this concert! I had no idea they were recording it. One of my all time favorite concert experiences.
We sat in the choral terrace, not more than 10 feet from the percussion section. The hammer in the 4th movement was awesome from that perspective.


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## Pugg

SuperTonic said:


> I attended this concert! I had no idea they were recording it. One of my all time favorite concert experiences.
> We sat in the choral terrace, not more than 10 feet from the percussion section. The hammer in the 4th movement was awesome from that perspective.


As I said highly recommended, specially as OP asked for "newer recordings"


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## Oldhoosierdude

Phil loves classical said:


> Boulez is the only one that works for me from those I heard, I prefer rhythmic consistency to reinforce form and structure over expression.


Glad you said that. Stated perfectly. I just started exploring this symphony and heard this one first and the wonderful recording by Maestro Herbig second. I don't know how many more I will find to try for free, but it is hard to top these.


----------

