# Karl Bohm



## linz

Bohm was strictly devout to conducting Austro-Germanic composers, especially Wagner and R. Strauss, but he also conducted Brahms complete symphonies and Haydn variations with the Vienna Philharmonic in the mid-late 1970's which are sold in a box set by Duetsche Grammaphone at very good price. The sound quality (preticularly in the finale of the 2nd) and naturally rich drama with which he handles the material is five star. I highly recommend these recordings even though they are underated. Does any one have any recommendations from Bohm's library?


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## Edward Elgar

Bohm is most famous for being the first conducter to record all 41 of Mozarts symphonies. I would rate him as one of the greatest Mozart interpreters ever. Top man! Also Mozarts wind concertos on Duetsche Grammaphone are worth a butchers!


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## Topaz

Karl Bohm was one of the most outstanding conductors.

There is a brilliant CD - a real must - on the DG label: Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony and Schubert's Symphony No 5.

I reckon this version of Beethoven's 6th is the best. And of course it's the Vienna Phil Orch. Every part of the 6th is perfection. Can anyone find any fault with it?

What better combination of composer/conductor/orchestra/record label can there be?



Topaz


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## linz

This is a tremendous cycle comparable to Klemperer's or Sanderling's. I don't know why people seem to ignore it. The sound is amazing.


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## Kurkikohtaus

Recordings, recordings, recordings.

I guess it serves the artists right for making so many of them that that's what they are eventually remembered for.

That said, Bohm was above all else a stellar opera conductor. In conducting circles, THAT is his legacy.


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## Topaz

Kurkikohtaus said:


> Recordings, recordings, recordings.
> 
> I guess it serves the artists right for making so many of them that that's what they are eventually remembered for.
> 
> That said, Bohm was above all else a stellar opera conductor. In conducting cirlcels, THAT is his legacy.


Plus his wonderful recordings of Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, as was noted earlier and with which I fully agree.

Topaz


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## Kurkikohtaus

I'm not saying that those recordings are not good, but when conductors talk amongst themselves about Bohm, his recordings do not ususally come up as a point of discussion. Conductors see Bohm as THE definitive conductor of Mozart operas and as the consumate professional of a sustained career in the opera house.


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## vonK

*The Magic Flute*

Böhm's conducting technic wasn't good , but he was even then a great conductor. Especially his Mozart and opera interpretations are great. His recording of Mozart's Magic Flute is outstanding:








with the Berlin Philharmonic, Wunderlich as Tamino and Fischer-Dieskau as Papageno.


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## Saturnus

I have two recordings of 'Also Sprach Zarathustra' by R. Strauss. 
One with Böhm and one with Karajan. They were recorded the same year, both with the Berlin Philharmonic and with Michel Schwalbé as the solo violin. The one with Karajan is way better than the one with Böhm. Karajan gives the tone-poem a necessary flow and respiration, in his hands it pulsates with emotion. Böhm recording is elephantine and almost dead, compared to the one with Karajan. 
This is why I have always awoided recordings with Böhm, but now I read your discussion and see that conductiong colossal late-romantic works is the exact opposite of what he is known for. :-/ 
I can only hope his recording of Also Sprach Zarathustra is not widespread.


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## linz

Karajan had a way with Strauss's 'Symphonic Poems', though Bohm's versions of the 'Symphonic Poems' are still classic recordings none-the-less. I have to disagree with a comment made earlier about Bohm's technique, it must have been fabulous or he wouldn't have had the reputation he enjoyed; Pure logic surely! 

P. S. People still argue over Knappertsbusch, but he still coducted 'THE' greatest Parsifal!


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## vonK

linz said:


> I have to disagree with a comment made earlier about Bohm's technique, it must have been fabulous or he wouldn't have had the reputation he enjoyed; Pure logic surely!


Have you seen Böhm conducting? I don't think it's just about the technic that makes a good conductor. It is also about the rehersal and interpretation. And at that point Böhm was great.
When I first saw Böhm conduct (on tv) I was very surprised because it was really not precise in any way and I've later read that Christa Ludwig - when Böhm conducted, had to count herself if she was to get her entries right.


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## linz

If I'm not mistaken, Christa Ludwig sung "Queen of the Night" for the staple recording on EMI with Klemperer and the Philharmonia Orchestra. Prehaps it was in Bohm's interest to not have her direction dictated. I would need to do research to find out whether is technique was in need. But something tells me it followed the general guidelines of the Austro-German tradition of clarity and consistency. Weingartner, Furtwangler, Kempe, E. Kleiber, Knappertsbusch, Klemperer, Bohm, Jochum, Karajan, C. Klieber, Wand. The interesting thing is their obssesion with Austro-Germanic music and their fine contribution to its legacy.


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## Brahmsipoo

His Beethoven pastoral is simply the best. Also, he's very good on _Fidelio_ and he has a wonderful (and rather slow) 1978 recording of Beethoven's 9th with the VPO, Jessye Norman, and Plácido Domingo that's worth taking a look at.

I've heard that he conducted Berg's _Wozzeck_. I have no idea if this is true, but it might be worth looking into.


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## starry

I find his Pastoral just too relaxed.

I first heard Mozart symphonies under his baton (with some cassette recordings). Good memories of interpretations of symphonies such as 34 and 26.


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## Vaneyes

I reserve him for Mozart. Figaro's (DG) my preference.


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## tahnak

Not to be under estimated or under rated.
A gifted conductor.
The recordings that are definitive from his baton are Beethoven's Fidelio, Mozart's late symphonies and Bruckner's Seventh symphony of 1950 that he conducted with the wiener Symphonie.


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## Lord Lance

His live performances from the 70s and 60s are fantastic. Much faster tempi and fleeter performances then his studio outings with VPO. Especially the horridly slow and relaxed Beethoven/VPO cycle.


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## Pip

Böhm was one of the greatest, and he conducted everything. Check out his Tchaikovsky 4-5-6 with the LSO.
I Saw him many times both in the opera house and in concert. He was at his best in the Austro-Germanic repertoire.
He conducted at the MET for 22 years from 1957 to 1978 and Bayreuth for 10 years where he conducted Tristan, Meistersinger and the Ring with great success. He was equally great conducting Otello at the MET.
His Bruckner was especially good - check out his Great Conductors of the Century release on EMI, there is a marvellous live Bruckner 8 from Cologne. 
His legacy is without doubt the complete Mozart Symphonies and almost all the. Operas. His Brahms and Schubert sets are very much worth having.
His Wozzeck on DG with Fischer-Dieskau is a classic.
Many of his classic live concerts with the VPO in Japan are available on Japanese DGG editions - expensive, but worth it.
Also some interesting live material on the Orfeo label.
Great conductor and we are lucky to have. Quite a few rehearsal and performance films from Mozart to Elektra.


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## teej

Edward Elgar said:


> Bohm is most famous for being the first conducter to record all 41 of Mozarts symphonies. I would rate him as one of the greatest Mozart interpreters ever. Top man! Also Mozarts wind concertos on Duetsche Grammaphone are worth a butchers!


I completely agree. Take, for example, his reading of Mozart Symphony #40 (Vienna Philharmonic). I have never heard a finer performance.


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## Itullian

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> His live performances from the 70s and 60s are fantastic. Much faster tempi and fleeter performances then his studio outings with VPO.* Especially the horridly slow and relaxed Beethoven/VPO cycle*.


Love it.................


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## Lord Lance

Itullian said:


> Love it.................


And I suppose you enjoy Celibidache's interpretation of Eroica Sinfonia? or his Brahms? or Klemperer's Bruckner?


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## DavidA

Never really went for Bohm except as a conductor of Mozart operas. His Mozart symphonies are a bit slow and bulky nowadays. He often seems too fast in other repertoire. His Ring and Tristan are both very fast with not a lot of light and shade.


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## Lord Lance

DavidA said:


> Never really went for Bohm except as a conductor of Mozart operas. His Mozart symphonies are a bit slow and bulky nowadays. He often seems too fast in other repertoire. His Ring and Tristan are both very fast with not a lot of light and shade.


His Mozart set follow brisk tempi, not slow. They aren't "Speed=Greatness" Roger Norrigton tempos but they aren't Celibidache tempi either.


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## fjf

I like his Schubert symphonies a lot.


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## JACE

Itullian said:


> Love it.................


Me too.........


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## Itullian

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> And I suppose you enjoy Celibidache's interpretation of Eroica Sinfonia? or his Brahms? or Klemperer's Bruckner?


Si ...............


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## kanishknishar

*Mozart's Thirty-fifth Symphony with LSO*

Highly recommended recording of the 35th Symphony performed by London Symphony Orchestra and conducted by Karl Bohm in 1973 [when he was 79!].

Very passionately played. Electric too perhaps. Suprising considering Bohm's relatively "tame" recordings with VPO from the same time. [Refer to his Tokyo Concerts from '75 as an example.]


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## Pugg

Herrenvolk said:


> Highly recommended recording of the 35th Symphony performed by London Symphony Orchestra and conducted by Karl Bohm in 1973 [when he was 79!].
> 
> Very passionately played. Electric too perhaps. Suprising considering Bohm's relatively "tame" recordings with VPO from the same time. [Refer to his Tokyo Concerts from '75 as an example.]


I wonder if O.P ever see this


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## Oldhoosierdude

I can appreciate the recordings of Bohm and Karajan post WWII. They did some amazing things. I have a hard time with their activities during the war. If I am not mistaken both were actually members of the* N* party. Maybe they did this to survive, who knows now. Other noted conductors stayed in Germany but did not join the party. But, then again I wasn't in any of their shoes, so I try not to be too hard on any of them. Given my heritage on one side of my family, this is more of an issue than I would like. This may be why I don't listen to them as much as some other conductors.


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## DavidA

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I can appreciate the recordings of Bohm and Karajan post WWII. They did some amazing things. I have a hard time with their activities during the war. If I am not mistaken both were actually members of the* N* party. Maybe they did this to survive, who knows now. Other noted conductors stayed in Germany but did not join the party. But, then again I wasn't in any of their shoes, so I try not to be too hard on any of them. Given my heritage on one side of my family, this is more of an issue than I would like. This may be why I don't listen to them as much as some other conductors.


According to Wiki

On 28 December 2015 the Salzburg Festival announced that it will affix a plaque on its Karl Böhm Concert Hall [Der Karl-Böhm-Saal] acknowledging the conductor's role in the Third Reich, which will say that "Böhm was a profiteer of the Third Reich and used its system to advance his career. His ascent was facilitated by the expulsion of Jewish and politically out-of-favor colleagues" ["Böhm war ein Profiteur des Dritten Reichs und arrangierte sich für die Karriere mit dem System. Sein Aufstieg wurde durch die Vertreibung jüdischer und politisch missliebiger Kollegen begünstigt"].[4] Austrian Radio (ORF) quoted Festival president Helga Rabl-Stadler as calling Böhm as "a great artist but fatally flawed politically" ["Ein großer Künstler, aber politisch fatal Irrender"].[4]
According to historian Michael H. Kater, Böhm belongs in that group of artists of whom "we also find conflicting elements of resistance, accommodation, and service to the regime, so that in the end they cannot be definitively painted as either Nazis or non-Nazis."[5] While Böhm appears never to have joined the Nazi party, he praised it publicly as early as 1930, and cooperated with it in many ways as a professional. According to music journalist Norman Lebrecht, in November 1923 Böhm stopped a rehearsal in the Munich opera house in order to watch Adolf Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch.[6] In 1930, he is said to have become angry when his wife was accused by Nazi brownshirts of being Jewish during the premiere of Arnold Schoenberg's opera Von heute auf morgen and to have stated that he would "tell Hitler about this".[6]
Kater, in his 1997 Oxford University Press book The Twisted Muse: Musicians and Their Music in the Third Reich, says that while Böhm was music director in Dresden (1934-43), he "poured forth rhetoric glorifying the Nazi regime and its cultural aims".[7] Kater also documents how Böhm told Nazi authorities in 1935 that he could be "of propagandist service to Nazis interests by giving concerts" in Vienna, where he had "many followers... especially in the National Socialist camp," and how later that year Böhm praised "the deep artistic comprehension of the Führer"; he also "repeatedly" conducted Richard Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg at opening ceremonies for the Nazi Party's annual Nuremberg Rally.[7]
Kater also says that Böhm's two "main career moves" in Third Reich era "tended to taint his post-1945 reputation." Kater argues that the 1934 move to the Dresden Opera to replace Fritz Busch after the latter's "politically motivated" dismissal by Nazi authorities showed Böhm's "extreme careerist opportunism at the expense of personal morality" and was facilitated directly by Hitler, who obtained for Böhm an early release from his previous contract; Kater also says Böhm's 1943 move to Vienna was something "Hitler wanted" by July 1942 - which is contrary to Böhm's claim that Hitler consistently opposed the move; Kater adds that shortly after Böhm's January 1943 installation in Vienna, Hitler awarded him the Martial Order of Merit.[8]
Lebrecht notes that after the 1938 Austrian referendum controlled by the Nazis to justify Germany's annexation of Austria, or Anschluss, the conductor told its orchestra that "anyone who does not approve this act of our Führer with a hundred-per-cent YES does not deserve to bear the honourable name of a German!"[6] In 1939, Böhm contributed to the Newspapers of the Comradeship of German Artists special congratulatory edition on the occasion of Hitler's 50th birthday, writing, "The path of today's music in the sphere of symphonic works... has been marked and paved by the ideology [Weltanschauung] of National Socialism..." [9] Lebrecht also states that in the wake of the Anschluss, Böhm gave the Hitler salute during a concert with the Vienna Philharmonic, ironically violating Nazi rules about places where the greeting was appropriate.[6]
Still, Kater notes "shades of gray," citing Böhm's "aesthetically faultless and sometimes politically daring" choice of repertory, and his collaborations with some anti-Nazi directors and designers, which "could have been interpreted by enemies of the Nazi regime as a brave attempt to preserve the principle of artistic freedom",.[10] He also mentions Böhm's claim that he sent his son Karlheinz to Switzerland [11] in (to quote Kater) "anticipation of his own eventual flight from the Third Reich."

Bohm therefore was not actually a member of the Nazi Party like Karajan but appears to have been more vocal in supporting it.


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## Oldhoosierdude

DavidA said:


> According to Wiki
> 
> On 28 December 2015 the Salzburg Festival announced that it will affix a plaque on its Karl Böhm Concert Hall [Der Karl-Böhm-Saal] acknowledging the conductor's role in the Third Reich, which will say that "Böhm was a profiteer of the Third Reich and used its system to advance his career. His ascent was facilitated by the expulsion of Jewish and politically out-of-favor colleagues" ["Böhm war ein Profiteur des Dritten Reichs und arrangierte sich für die Karriere mit dem System. Sein Aufstieg wurde durch die Vertreibung jüdischer und politisch missliebiger Kollegen begünstigt"].[4] Austrian Radio (ORF) quoted Festival president Helga Rabl-Stadler as calling Böhm as "a great artist but fatally flawed politically" ["Ein großer Künstler, aber politisch fatal Irrender"].[4]
> According to historian Michael H. Kater, Böhm belongs in that group of artists of whom "we also find conflicting elements of resistance, accommodation, and service to the regime, so that in the end they cannot be definitively painted as either Nazis or non-Nazis."[5] While Böhm appears never to have joined the Nazi party, he praised it publicly as early as 1930, and cooperated with it in many ways as a professional. According to music journalist Norman Lebrecht, in November 1923 Böhm stopped a rehearsal in the Munich opera house in order to watch Adolf Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch.[6] In 1930, he is said to have become angry when his wife was accused by Nazi brownshirts of being Jewish during the premiere of Arnold Schoenberg's opera Von heute auf morgen and to have stated that he would "tell Hitler about this".[6]
> Kater, in his 1997 Oxford University Press book The Twisted Muse: Musicians and Their Music in the Third Reich, says that while Böhm was music director in Dresden (1934-43), he "poured forth rhetoric glorifying the Nazi regime and its cultural aims".[7] Kater also documents how Böhm told Nazi authorities in 1935 that he could be "of propagandist service to Nazis interests by giving concerts" in Vienna, where he had "many followers... especially in the National Socialist camp," and how later that year Böhm praised "the deep artistic comprehension of the Führer"; he also "repeatedly" conducted Richard Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg at opening ceremonies for the Nazi Party's annual Nuremberg Rally.[7]
> Kater also says that Böhm's two "main career moves" in Third Reich era "tended to taint his post-1945 reputation." Kater argues that the 1934 move to the Dresden Opera to replace Fritz Busch after the latter's "politically motivated" dismissal by Nazi authorities showed Böhm's "extreme careerist opportunism at the expense of personal morality" and was facilitated directly by Hitler, who obtained for Böhm an early release from his previous contract; Kater also says Böhm's 1943 move to Vienna was something "Hitler wanted" by July 1942 - which is contrary to Böhm's claim that Hitler consistently opposed the move; Kater adds that shortly after Böhm's January 1943 installation in Vienna, Hitler awarded him the Martial Order of Merit.[8]
> Lebrecht notes that after the 1938 Austrian referendum controlled by the Nazis to justify Germany's annexation of Austria, or Anschluss, the conductor told its orchestra that "anyone who does not approve this act of our Führer with a hundred-per-cent YES does not deserve to bear the honourable name of a German!"[6] In 1939, Böhm contributed to the Newspapers of the Comradeship of German Artists special congratulatory edition on the occasion of Hitler's 50th birthday, writing, "The path of today's music in the sphere of symphonic works... has been marked and paved by the ideology [Weltanschauung] of National Socialism..." [9] Lebrecht also states that in the wake of the Anschluss, Böhm gave the Hitler salute during a concert with the Vienna Philharmonic, ironically violating Nazi rules about places where the greeting was appropriate.[6]
> Still, Kater notes "shades of gray," citing Böhm's "aesthetically faultless and sometimes politically daring" choice of repertory, and his collaborations with some anti-Nazi directors and designers, which "could have been interpreted by enemies of the Nazi regime as a brave attempt to preserve the principle of artistic freedom",.[10] He also mentions Böhm's claim that he sent his son Karlheinz to Switzerland [11] in (to quote Kater) "anticipation of his own eventual flight from the Third Reich."
> 
> Bohm therefore was not actually a member of the Nazi Party like Karajan but appears to have been more vocal in supporting it.


Thanks. It's hard to say now why those conductors did what they did. Maybe they felt themselves and their families in danger and couldn't get out of the situation. I know that Furtwangler and Jochum were later exonerated as to their ties to the party. I don't think Bohm and Karajan were much scrutinized, which I find strange. It's a hard thing to get behind much about Bohm and Karajan when ancestors lost home and sometimes their lives to this kind of thing.
There are so many other great conductors that I will concentrate on them instead.


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## dieter

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Thanks. It's hard to say now why those conductors did what they did. Maybe they felt themselves and their families in danger and couldn't get out of the situation. I know that Furtwangler and Jochum were later exonerated as to their ties to the party. I don't think Bohm and Karajan were much scrutinized, which I find strange. It's a hard thing to get behind much about Bohm and Karajan when ancestors lost home and sometimes their lives to this kind of thing.
> There are so many other great conductors that I will concentrate on them instead.


There are two aspects I find interesting about this question. The first is that I am glad I have never had to make the decisions Germans had to make in those tumultuous post war years.To make judgement on the worth of men and women who were thrown into moral cauldrons way beyond their control, judgement quite often from armchair moralists who reside in countries whose actions contributed to the mess in Europe - and the rest of the world for that matter, witness Sykes-Picquot -is something that gets on my goat.
With regard to Bohm's Nazi associations and lack of post wars scrutiny by the Moral Police, I have read that basically any questions on who to go for were referred to Bruno Walter. Walter exonerated Bohm because he liked him. Instead the clowns who masqueraded as the Moral Police ruined the life of Furtwangler.
Karajan got off Scott free as well.


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