# Best rock improvisors in rock music



## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

While there are quite a few rock musicians who can play fine solos in a short song who do you think are the best improvisers rock music has produced? 

For me there are a lot of rock players who like to jam live but when you come down to it most of the solos are a series of flashy tricks strung together rather than a cohesive musical statement. 

I enjoy the live work of Duane Allman but having listened to the complete Fillmore box set which features complete concerts you saw he did not deviate so much concert by concert from his set solos and had several stock phrases he used to wow the crowd. 

This is not a unique thing of course as many soloists will have elements they repeat or use as a jumping off point (and he is a far far better player than I will ever be!) however I feel that a player like Jerry Garcia is a better improvisor as he seems to start each improvisation as a new piece of music and was less interest in pyrotechnics than exploring the song anew.

Hendrix's solos tended to ramble a bit but there was always a sense of constantly testing out new ideas both melodically and sonically. His best improvs tended to be blues based while Garcia went into modal jazz territory, unfortunately we never really saw what Hendrix could do in a live jazz context. 

As a band I always liked the mid 70's King Crimson live, they tended more towards group improv rather than flashy solos and worked less melodically but texturally and rhythmically. There is no doubt Robert Fripp could wail but he seemed to like being in the background.

Interested to hear what other people think, not just for guitarists either.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Check out Johnny Winter.

Here is a solo that runs about 2.5 minutes

This solo runs about 3 minutes

Another one about 4 minutes long

One of my favorites off a studio album about 1 minute or so


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Steely Dan are great improvisers but that's to be expected from a bunch of dudes were were jazz-influenced heavily indeed.


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

I don't generally look to rock for improvisation. But Hendrix, Jerry Garcia with the Grateful Dead and both Duane Allman and Dickey Betts with the Allman Brothers were excellent improvisers when they were at their best. For the Dead, the album _Live/Dead_ is a fine example. For the Allmans, _Live at the Fillmore East_. For Hendrix, his Berkeley and Winterland concert CDs contain some excellent improv.

To the extent that John McLaughlin crossed over to rock, I include him as well.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Add in Yes and Traffic as well for great long improvisations. Pink Floyd on the other hand wasn't too hot in that area.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

FPwtc said:


> I enjoy the live work of Duane Allman but having listened to the complete Fillmore box set which features complete concerts you saw he did not deviate so much concert by concert from his set solos and had several stock phrases he used to wow the crowd.


Yes, I really like Duane Allman but the great thing of his playing was the great sense of groove he had, more than sheer creativity in terms of scales or unusual things (probably it could be said the same for all his heirs, Warren Haynes, Dereck Trucks, Trey Anastasio). Garcia had certainly a more contemplative and exploratory approach but also more loose, but he didn't groove as Duane Allman.
Anyway I have to think about my favorites, but at the moment the first name I'd definitely say is James Jamerson. Obviously he wasn't playing in a jam band but for what I've read most of his basslines were improvised, a thing that is incredible considering that a lot of those are just perfect.
No gratuitous showmanship (Pastorius was often guilty of that), no clichè, a great sense for melody and rhyhtm, and always a great choice of notes.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Eagles songs work well too for long vampy improvs.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2015)

KC certainly like to improvise as can be seen from a lot of their live albums over the years. Fripp has never liked being in the spotlight.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Cream were as good as anyone - when they were on form. If there is a fine line between genuine improvisational brilliance and self-indulgently aimless noodling then Cream knew how to cross it even if they didn't necessarily know when it was they were doing it.


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

norman bates said:


> Yes, I really like Duane Allman but the great thing of his playing was the great sense of groove he had, more than sheer creativity in terms of scales or unusual things (probably it could be said the same for all his heirs, Warren Haynes, Dereck Trucks, Trey Anastasio). Garcia had certainly a more contemplative and exploratory approach but also more loose, but he didn't groove as Duane Allman.
> Anyway I have to think about my favorites, but at the moment the first name I'd definitely say is James Jamerson. Obviously he wasn't playing in a jam band but for what I've read most of his basslines were improvised, a thing that is incredible considering that a lot of those are just perfect.
> No gratuitous showmanship (Pastorius was often guilty of that), no clichè, a great sense for melody and rhyhtm, and always a great choice of notes.


This is a good point as much of rocks aesthetic is about groove, volume and texture. As can be seen by a lot of jazz rock guitarists spraying loads of fancy scales over a rock grooves often misses the point. I also love Duane's tone, rich and warm, Betts is also great with a more twangy country feel. It would be interesting to have seen where the Allman's would have gone if Duane had not died, more commercial and country (as Betts lead them) or more jazzy and improvised?


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> Add in Yes and Traffic as well for great long improvisations. Pink Floyd on the other hand wasn't too hot in that area.


I love Traffic, very under rated and almost forgotten these days. I think they were too unique a brew to really be that influential but most of their LPs still sound good.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Hendrix is probably the best one I know of. I also like Robby Krieger, Omar Rodriguez Lopez and Jimmy Page to name a few. I'm sure there are plenty of players out there that are more sophisticated, and virtuosic, that don't try to show off too much, that are being really harmonically advanced in subtle ways etc etc. Some of these players I might even really like, but to me stuff like that is not really what rock music is about. 

I think to approach jazz and classical improv it is important to be able to think while playing. Rock and blues is more about feel and really going for it, I believe the saying goes "if you're thinkin' you're stinkin'".


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

FPwtc said:


> I love Traffic, very under rated and almost forgotten these days. I think they were too unique a brew to really be that influential but most of their LPs still sound good.


What astonishes me is that I was born in 1976 and a lot of Traffic songs occurred before my time and yet older people like my dad have no clue who Traffic is .

And yes, I own a few of their LP's and spin those once in awhile. They were the finest rock improvisers for me ever. They failed to be boring even with songs clocking in over 10 minutes long.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

One of the greatest improvisors I know of is Richard Thompson, originally of Fairport Convention but maybe even better known as a solo artist. No two solos are ever alike, and they're wild and raw but spot on. Neil Young and Zappa both excel in that area -- well, I'm never sure if Zappa is improvising or composing. It sounds improvised.

Having said all that, I always preferred the well worked out compositions with solos you can recognize from one gig to the next with maybe only slight variations. This is where prog rock excelled.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Weston said:


> This is where prog rock excelled.


Why the past tense?

The quality of modern prog is at a very high level.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Albert7 said:


> What astonishes me is that I was born in 1976 and a lot of Traffic songs occurred before my time and yet older people like my dad have no clue who Traffic is .


Traffic did fly a little under the radar. As an organ player, I can say that Steve Winwood is a monster on it.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Simon Moon said:


> Why the past tense?
> 
> The quality of modern prog is at a very high level.


I'd have to agree. On a personal level, I've been around and even had the chance to play at times with Neal Morse, from Spock's Beard, now with Flying Colors, Transatlantic, and the Neal Morse Band. He can play anything - jazz, prog, gospel - and improvises comfortably and interestingly on keyboards, guitar, and bass. He also plays drums when Mike Portnoy lets him have them. His whole band switches off in concerts. There are no slackers in his bands.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Simon Moon said:


> Why the past tense?
> 
> The quality of modern prog is at a very high level.


I actually debated with myself about the tense , but then couldn't think of any riveting solos like the kind I remember from the 70s. This is probably only due to less timne for exposure.



Manxfeeder said:


> I'd have to agree. On a personal level, I've been around and even had the chance to play at times with Neal Morse, from Spock's Beard, now with Flying Colors, Transatlantic, and the Neal Morse Band. He can play anything - jazz, prog, gospel - and improvises comfortably and interestingly on keyboards, guitar, and bass. He also plays drums when Mike Portnoy lets him have them. His whole band switches off in concerts. There are no slackers in his bands.


Wow! And now I suspect we know, or knew, each other in real life. I have sometimes wondered about that.

I have seen Neal Morse here and there in restaurants around town. Not recently though. I didn't bother him.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The 1973-74 incarnation of King Crimson, as you mention, was remarkable for its improvisations. About half of the album Starless and Bible Black was improvised - not jams on a repeated riff or progression, but all players creating their parts on the spot. Most striking is that these pieces tend to have coherent dramatic arcs, with changes of tempo, texture and meter. The level of communication is astounding. The live recordings of this band released over the years document many improvised pieces of this kind.

Three examples: The first is the title track from the eponymous album, improvised on the stage of the Concertgebouw, 23 Nov., 1973. "Trio" is from the same concert. "Daniel Dust" is one I heard improvised at Pittsburgh's Stanley Theater (29 Apr. 1974) as an introduction to the song "The Night Watch."

Starless and bible Black






Daniel Dust






Trio


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Cream, Hendrix, Grateful Dead, Allman Brothers


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Just get this CD. FZ was one of the greatest improvisers in rock music.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> About half of the album Starless and Bible Black was improvised


I was planning on posting this very fact myself! For me Fracture remains as contemporary and as visceral as when I first heard it all those years ago.


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Check out Johnny Winter.
> 
> Here is a solo that runs about 2.5 minutes
> 
> ...


Winter is bloody great! Forgot about him, not a great songwriter or singer but had everything else and such a raw tone!


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

tdc said:


> Hendrix is probably the best one I know of. I also like Robby Krieger, Omar Rodriguez Lopez and Jimmy Page to name a few. I'm sure there are plenty of players out there that are more sophisticated, and virtuosic, that don't try to show off too much, that are being really harmonically advanced in subtle ways etc etc. Some of these players I might even really like, but to me stuff like that is not really what rock music is about.
> 
> I think to approach jazz and classical improv it is important to be able to think while playing. Rock and blues is more about feel and really going for it, I believe the saying goes "if you're thinkin' you're stinkin'".


Robby Krieger is one of my favourites, I missed him as he tends to sit in the background and play very tastefully, however quite a few Doors tunes were long jams like the album version of Light My Fire, The End and When The Musics Over. He was very lyrical when he played and had a modally scale approach and legato playing style I really like and Mick Taylor and Garcia both share I think.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

FPwtc said:


> Winter is bloody great! Forgot about him, not a great songwriter or singer but had everything else and such a raw tone!





> "Live At Royal Albert Hall is a testament to Johnny Winter's force-of-nature brilliance as a peerless improviser. No other blues- or rock-oriented guitar player possesses an improvisational prowess that could compare with that of the greatest jazz musicians; like the saxophonists John Coltrane and Charlie Parker, Johnny displays an endless wellspring of ideas, delivering streams of perfectly realized rifts one after another with a relentless forward propulsion and momentum.
> 
> "Johnny's fluidity does remind me of modern jazz players," Edgar [Johnny's jazz-oriented brother] concurs. "There is an incessant quality and intensity in what he plays that is unique to him as a guitar player. He never lets up. It's an endlessly flowing tapestry of long lines, as opposed to leaving space."


Quoted from liner notes written by Andy Aledort, Associate Editor, Guitar World. Johnny Winter, Second Winter, Legacy Edition, which includes a second disc of the previously unreleased 1970 Royal Albert Hall concert.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Simon Moon said:


> Why the past tense?
> 
> *The quality of modern prog is at a very high level.*


What bands specifically?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

shangoyal said:


> What bands specifically?


The Mike Keneally Band.


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## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

Mick Taylor did some good stuff live with the Stones but they were never a freewheeling jam band so he was a bit wasted. I heard some of his work with John Mayall and thought he may have been better off staying with the Bluesbreakers as they fitted his style better. Great player anyway and also did some more exploratory stuff with Jack Bruce.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I was listening to Colosseum's live album from 1971 recently - they stretched out quite a lot on that compared to the more compact performances on their studio albums but their focus and interplay was impressive.


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## Baregrass (Feb 16, 2015)

Hendrix, one of the best.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> I was listening to Colosseum's live album from 1971 recently - they stretched out quite a lot on that compared to the more compact performances on their studio albums but their focus and interplay was impressive.


Colosseum was the first band I saw. Years later I attended a drum masterclass with Jon Hiseman. Scary technique!


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

Many rock stars were too... shiny (do not want to use word "flashy"). Jerry Garcia, the best one, was the star without excessive luminosity.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Another vote here for Robert Fripp (both in and out of King Crimson). You should also check out the Polish bass player Wojtek Pilichowski - astounding!


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2015)

I vote for Hendrix and Deep Purple (circa '70-73). After Blackmore left, they were never same, nor when he returned.


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