# Argument over standing ovation



## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

So I went to see an opera at the Royal Opera House in London, and greatly enjoyed the performance. So towards the end of the curtain call, when the main characters came out, I was tempted to give a standing ovation. I looked around, and saw a few people giving standing ovation, so gave a standing ovation myself. Even before the curtain call ended, roughly 30 seconds afterwards, an old man sitting behind me poked me. Because of the applause I could not clearly hear him, but I thought he said something like “What are you doing?”, and since that is such a rude thing to say, thought that I was mistaken. So I said “Sorry?” and he said, “Sit down.” I was dumbfounded but nevertheless sat down.
Then after the curtain call ended and the audience left the theatre, and I met the same old man in the queue to the exit. He said, “Why were you standing?” in an aggressive way, so I replied, “You do realise that standing ovation is a form of showing appreciation and”—I couldn’t finish what I was saying as he interrupted by saying “No. It is not. You were blocking my view. What were you thinking?” And so I tried to tell him that there were other people who stood up during curtain call as well, but he insisted that I was wrong, there is no such thing as standing ovation, and that he was angry because I blocked his view. When I told him that the way he talked to me was rude, he said that “It was meant to be.”
I want to ask if it is indeed inappropriate to give standing ovation during opera curtain calls/ROH. This was only my fourth opera, so I am not an expert in opera etiquette. I am not british, so I am unsure whether standing ovations are indeed forbidden in the uk opera scene as he said, or if he was just a rude racist guy. Please tell me your thoughts!


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

I don't know what is customary in the UK, but here in the United States standing ovations are rather commonplace. Sometimes I disagree that a performance warrants such an accolade and don't join in, but I would never ask somebody else to sit down.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

He was old, rude, and very short.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The man was indeed rude, but I abhor this practice of standing ovations at practically every performance. It used to be reserved for performances that were really exceptional. Now I find myself having to stand to be able to see the stage practically every time I go to the theatre. In most cases, though I may have enjoyed the performance and wanted to show my appreciation, I didn't think it warranted a standing ovation.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Double post - oops.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

The man was indeed rude. Needless to say, I would have sat down in the theater like you did. But, if he tried to talk to me exiting he would have regretted it, because I love more than anything (I'm almost serious here) being a huge a**hole and I would have have told him to go f*uck himself. Haha - seriously, I mostly hate people so I love telling someone off when I get the chance and they deserve it, but it's only reserved for situations like this. Mostly, I am just a nice guy.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

It's not inappropriate, but if you're blocking somebody's view, they can't see beyond you and they might not think the performance deserved a standing performance anyway. Overall, though, I don't think you did anything wrong or intended to. Kind of puts a damper on things at the end, doesn't it? That's too bad because I feel that enthusiasm should be rewarded and there are great performances deserving of a standing ovation. The gentleman could've been nicer about it or simply said, "I can't see." Well, if it makes you feel any better, I give _you_ a standing ovation for your appreciation of the performance.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gellio said:


> The man was indeed rude. Needless to say, I would have sat down in the theater like you did. But, if he tried to talk to me exiting he would have regretted it, because I love more than anything (I'm almost serious here) being a huge a**hole and I would have have told him to go f*uck himself. Haha - seriously, I mostly hate people so I love telling someone off when I get the chance and they deserve it, but it's only reserved for situations like this. Mostly, I am just a nice guy.


To everything there is a season, 
and a time to every purpose under heaven: 
A time to be born, and a time to die; 
a time to be a nice guy, and a time to be a huge a**hole.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The man was rude. Standing ovations are so common in the US that they've become meaningless. I've seen audiences stand for decidedly 2nd rate playing and conducting. There are very few singers today worthy of a genuine SO compared to the great singers of mid-20th c opera performances. But this is expected; when a generation of kids was raised where everyone gets a trophy just for participating, and no one wants to be seen as being judgmental, this is what happens. Sometimes when every one around me is standing I will defiantly sit. I've heard great performers and concerts, and will not falsely reward mediocrity. Hey, maybe I'm becoming that old man!


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

Thanks!! I am also from the US so was unsure about the culture in the UK.


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> He was old, rude, and very short.


I feel like I need your level of generosity.


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The man was indeed rude, but I abhor this practice of standing ovations at practically every performance. It used to be reserved for performances that were really exceptional. Now I find myself having to stand to be able to see the stage practically every time I go to the theatre. In most cases, though I may have enjoyed the performance and wanted to show my appreciation, I didn't think it warranted a standing ovation.


Yes I agree!! Standing ovations are meant for only the truly exceptional performances.


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

gellio said:


> The man was indeed rude. Needless to say, I would have sat down in the theater like you did. But, if he tried to talk to me exiting he would have regretted it, because I love more than anything (I'm almost serious here) being a huge a**hole and I would have have told him to go f*uck himself. Haha - seriously, I mostly hate people so I love telling someone off when I get the chance and they deserve it, but it's only reserved for situations like this. Mostly, I am just a nice guy.


Oh no!! My bad- I think the admin removed my double post though, I can't find the other one? Huge thanks to admin!!! Thanks for telling me that the man was indeed rude. Maybe I should have told him so as well lol, but when I was talking with the old man I was really confused about the whole thing (thus the post here)


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

Larkenfield said:


> It's not inappropriate, but if you're blocking somebody's view, they can't see beyond you and they might not think the performance deserved a standing performance anyway. Overall, though, I don't think you did anything wrong or intended to. Kind of puts a damper on things at the end, doesn't it? That's too bad because I feel that enthusiasm should be rewarded and there are great performances deserving of a standing ovation. The gentleman could've been nicer about it or simply said, "I can't see." Well, if it makes you feel any better, I give _you_ a standing ovation for your appreciation of the performance.


Thanks for the standing ovation hahaha makes me feel much better! I do agree that if he had been nicer, I wouldn't have been so confused.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't really care if I liked a performance; I'll join in the standing ovation if a lot of other people are doing so. Mind you, I also occasionally leave a concert during intermission.


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## Sadanon (Jun 10, 2019)

Yeah I agree- in the US standing ovations are really common. I think most of the broadway shows I saw got standing ovations. Which makes me feel a bit sad because now it is difficult to convey the appreciation and respect to the cast and the crew. Haha and no you are not becoming THAT old man- what you are saying has logic, while he was just angry at me & aggressive.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Standing ovations are less common in the UK and continental Europe, and there are people (and newspaper columnists) that complain about them. I think it's fair to not like the practice, but I think the person that poked you and then even brought it up in the lobby went way too far. And what were they trying to accomplish? Did they actually think they were going to get you to sit down? Did they think scolding you after the fact would change how London audiences behave?

I don't believe there were many standees after the two performances I've seen in the UK (it's been a while, though), and of the ones I've seen on the continent, only after _Parsifal_ at Staatsoper Berlin on Good Friday when it was the last performance of Jürgen Flimm's long tenure was there much of a standing ovation. Many of the performances had long ovations, but almost everybody not in the rings (where there's 1 or 2 rows of seats) remained seated.

It can be nice to not have to get up to see. And there are certainly some people that have limited mobility - even if they aren't in a wheelchair or have some other visible sign - that really can't/shouldn't stand up up, and it's nice to be accomodating.

On a different note, I know I have attended some lackluster performances that evoked little but respectful clapping from me, but when everyone in front of me stood up with their applause I have decided to stand up too, so that I can see who is coming out and adjust the volume of my clapping - or pause to find my program and water - accordingly. But I'm not going to ask other people to sit down!

I'm glad you were able to express your enthusiasm. And it's reasonable to have checked to see that there were others standing, too. It may be more uncommon in the UK, but it's certainly not unheard of.


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> But this is expected; when a generation of kids was raised where everyone gets a trophy just for participating, and no one wants to be seen as being judgmental, this is what happens.


Are you trying to tell me my teenaged peers and I are not _all_ very special, in our own unique and _beautiful_ ways?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

mountmccabe said:


> Standing ovations are less common in the UK and continental Europe...
> 
> ... It may be more uncommon in the UK, but it's certainly not unheard of.


In musicals at least it's becoming more or less the norm. To be honest I can't remember the last time a show I saw didn't get a standing ovation. I'm not that lucky. They haven't _all_ been that good!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I confirm the comments that have gone before, standing ovations are given at the ROH although they are rarer than elsewhere and I have been told to sit down myself (I just ignored it and got a barage of abuse).

They have become the norm at plays and musicals in London, though and I remember on one occasion when the whole audience got up after a very good performance of _The Sound of Music_ there was a group of three people who were sat down in front of me and one of them exclaimed, "why do they always do that!"

N.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Ha! I wonder what that old moron would think of the Eastern Bloc Iron Clap, ie. the entire audience falling into a rhythm when clapping. If it doesn't happen, the performance was really bad.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

In the U.S., where standing ovations are more common, I usually measure audience satisfaction with the duration and volume of applause/cheers. You can usually tell when the appreciation is perfunctory versus when people are really excited.

At the RAH opera, was there anything to see during the curtain call? I would expect it is just the performers coming out on stage again. If so, I would think it would be easier to lean to the side or stand rather than try to convince the person in front of me to sit down.


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

Sieglinde said:


> Ha! I wonder what that old moron would think of the Eastern Bloc Iron Clap, ie. the entire audience falling into a rhythm when clapping. If it doesn't happen, the performance was really bad.


That happened when I saw Nabucco in Nice last summer. I had never experienced it before!


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The point is, it is a standing ovation, meaning the performance was over, so whether or not you were blocking his view is not relevant. Anyone has the right to stand and clap at the end of a performance if they want to.

The guy complaining was a loser.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

That man's rude behavior aside, once upon a time standing ovations were a coveted way of showing appreciation for a special performance by a singer. 
Somehow or other it went by the wayside and now it seems to be nothing more than an excuse for being able to see the performers rather than actually granting a special reward.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

nina foresti said:


> That man's rude behavior aside, once upon a time standing ovations were a coveted way of showing appreciation for a special performance by a singer.


Even if this is the ideal, what constitutes a 'special performance' will always be to a high degree subjective. What is a 'special performance' to one audience member, may be a misfire to another. There is no way to effectively restrict standing ovations to 'special performances'.

I think there is some truth to the point that some audience members are too quick to stand after every performance. I think the only way to deal with that is for those who feel that the standing ovation should be given out more sparingly to remain seated, and each person respect the other's decision.


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## sharkeysnight (Oct 19, 2017)

He sounds like the kind of person who works out their internal tensions by starting problems in public spaces. I'm sure he'll go home and feel extremely vindicated for showing you the what-for, and will probably be regaling all of his friends with his amazing epic put-down for months.



mbhaub said:


> But this is expected; when a generation of kids was raised where everyone gets a trophy just for participating, and no one wants to be seen as being judgmental, this is what happens.


This argument gets rolled out at the weirdest times.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

We were at a performance of the musical *Waitress* last night. Some members of the audience started standing even before members of the cast had taken their solo bows. It's almost as if they wanted to make sure they were the first people to stand. There was absolutely nothing spontaneous about it. I ended up having to stand too, just to see who was coming out to take their bow next. I dont call that a genuine standing ovation.

Interestingly the applause died down the minute the cast left the stage. I've been at performances where they have to come back on stage over and over again because the audience demands more. This was not one of those, so why the standing ovation? It was good. I really enjoyed it, but it wasn't _that_ good.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I'll admit there have been times I've stood up quickly because I didn't have enough legroom and was ready to stretch my legs. Sort of like when I'm on a plane; I'll stand up as soon as the Fasten Seatbelts sign goes off. I know I'm not getting off until the people in front of me do, but it's such a relief to be able to move the legs again.

And, yeah, the musicals I've seen in London had their ovations. Even when the lady what sang "Memory" couldn't remember the lyrics to that song.

But I certainly agree that "special" or "great" performances are subjective. And staged operas (and musicals) have a whole lot of performers and other elements that one can appreciate, and can contribute to the performance being "special."


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I think that some people remain firmly in their seats regardless of how great a performance was - perhaps they're trying to signal just how discriminating they are.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> I think that some people remain firmly in their seats regardless of how great a performance was - perhaps they're trying to signal just how discriminating they are.


Or maybe they just are discriminating.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm not shy when it comes to telling people off in theatres, but even if just one guy in front of me was giving a standing ovation I'd cut him some slack, as with people who need to get past me to make a quick exit. The performance is over and people must do what they need to do.

But still, don't be that guy! Best to follow the lead of others. Similarly don't applaud first during an opera unless you are absolutely certain it's the right time. You have nothing to gain.

Finally, during the curtain calls DO give a bravo or brava to a singer if you've enjoyed their performance.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Don Fatale said:


> But still, don't be that guy. Best to follow the lead of others. Just the same as don't applaud first during an opera unless you are absolutely certain it's the right time.


That's easy. Some a$$hole always applauds too soon. It was really annoying at the end of Gotterdammerung at the Met last month - as soon as that curtain moved, some moron had to start applauding.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> That's easy. Some a$$hole always applauds too soon. It was really annoying at the end of Gotterdammerung at the Met last month - as soon as that curtain moved, some moron had to start applauding.


There ought to be some way of keeping the gotterdammerung idiots out.


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