# Composers of the Month March 2015 Berlioz and Reich



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Well here we are in March and the next 2 names for composers of the month
Hector Berlioz 
Steve Reich

So here is a chance for lovers of these two to tell us why.
Favourite works and performances
Berlioz I am familiar with but only on a superficial basis. Reich I know is a 'minimalist' composer but beyond that he is a mystery
Please start making suggestions and offering opinions


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Hurrah get the Steve reich works box set. Most important collection of all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Reich:_Works_1965-1995


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I've only heard a couple of percussion pieces by Reich. I don't find them very interesting, even if they are intricate. They don't seem to go anywhere. They're certainly not orchestral sounding like Varese, whom I really like. Ionization has a structure and movement I can appreciate.

I've only recently expanded my Berlioz collection to include Damnation Of Faust, and Lelio. I'm liking what I'm hearing, but haven't absorbed these pieces to comment on them.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Reich is generally not interested in "going somewhere" in the usual Western classical sense, especially not in his early works. If you approach him that way, you're going to be disappointed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I generally prefer Reich to (say) Glass and find some of his works fascinating. Something oddly compelling here.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Time for some music examples. Here you go:






Sheer genius!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Haydn Man, knowing that you live in the UK, here are two iTunes links that will be good for you:






and






Enjoy!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Taking advantage of 5 hours left before Morton Feldman so on TinyChat, I put up this lovely piece.






Inspired by Radiohead... excerpts are wonderful here.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2015)

I love that set that albert posted. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that Steve is really trying anything new since those days.

Now, Berlioz... my real project this month should be to finally listen to Benvenuto Cellini.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Some wonderful Berlioz:






Steve Reich is the Bach of the 21st century.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I love Les Troyens by Berlioz. It simply has everything-high drama, love, beautiful orchestral writing, stirring marches, great arias, two terrific heroines, a great heroic tenor part.

It really is the best of Berlioz.

I have three performances of it and I'm always hoping for more.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Different Trains and WTC 9/11 are my favorite Reich pieces. WTC 9/11 is probably the best 9/11 tribute piece along with Don Delillo's novel about the same tragedy.

Enjoy the work:






Very moving and touching.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I love Les Troyens by Berlioz. It simply has everything-high drama, love, beautiful orchestral writing, stirring marches, great arias, two terrific heroines, a great heroic tenor part.
> 
> It really is the best of Berlioz.
> 
> I have three performances of it and I'm always hoping for more.


:wave:..................


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Two composers I've hear of!
My favourite works by these composers:
Symphonie Fantastique
Grande Messe des Morts
Les Troyens
Harold in Italy

Clapping Music
Different Trains
It's Gonna Rain


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I love Les Troyens by Berlioz. It simply has everything-high drama, love, beautiful orchestral writing, stirring marches, great arias, two terrific heroines, a great heroic tenor part.
> 
> It really is the best of Berlioz.
> 
> I have three performances of it and I'm always hoping for more.


And I love the music; it's just pure heaven by Berlioz.

And please, no cuts to my opera. Keep in 4 hours plus.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Now on TinyChat, we are featuring this lovely work:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

And the classic Reich composition which must be heard:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

This is an interesting coincidence as I am in the middle of watching Les Troyens on DVD. I think that Troyens is ultimate Berlioz.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

And right now we are listening to that version of Different Trains on TinyChat. Man oh man .


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

isorhythm said:


> Reich is generally not interested in "going somewhere" in the usual Western classical sense, especially not in his early works. If you approach him that way, you're going to be disappointed.


I never understood what someone means by "approaching" music. I just listen to it. I don't have any expectations, it's just that those Reich percussion pieces are not my cuppa tea.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

starthrower said:


> I never understood what someone means by "approaching" music. I just listen to it. I don't have any expectations, it's just that those Reich percussion pieces are not my cuppa tea.


Yum... and now we will get six marimbas for dessert:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> Hurrah get the Steve reich works box set. Most important collection of all.
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Reich:_Works_1965-1995


Ugh, I can't believe that I forgot to add in a second necessary box set for Reich. Phases which covers his more recent period.  A must have too.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Personally, I think _Music For 18 Musicians_ is the best work of Reich. I only have this ECM version, originally released in 1978, but this is so good that I don't feel a need of checking out other versions. Otherworldly music.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> Ugh, I can't believe that I forgot to add in a second necessary box set for Reich. Phases which covers his more recent period.  A must have too.
> 
> View attachment 65113


Here is the UK iTunes link to purchase this:


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Well, thank you to everyone for posting some interesting recommendations.
I shall start the month exploring this set of works by Reich







This looks a good place to start

Later today I will have a listen to Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique







This version I was given, having had one before by Mehta, if I remember correctly
Does anybody have other favourites of this?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Haydn man said:


> Well, thank you to everyone for posting some interesting recommendations.
> I shall start the month exploring this set of works by Reich
> View attachment 65116
> 
> ...


For the Berlioz piece, I recommend this fine recording conducted by Boulez:


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

tortkis said:


> Personally, I think _Music For 18 Musicians_ is the best work of Reich. I only have this ECM version, originally released in 1978, but this is so good that I don't feel a need of checking out other versions. Otherworldly music.


Could'nt agree more; I've known other versions, but that is an old flame:






Reich's music has also played an important role in contemporary dance; see how the shadows put in images the de-phase method, for instance:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Even other artists have remixed Steve Reich to wonderful avail:






Reich Remixed is a great anthology .


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

Sorry, albert, no offence but IMHO, that's an anecdothical disco Cd, I don't think nobody will recommend a disco Berlioz remixed in this thread, but stick to the originals...


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

... for instance, this live concert with his complete string quartets, where WTC 9/11 was played in premiere by 3 quartets:

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/230826-listen-steve-reichs-complete-quartets/


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

*Reich*

Triple Quartet






The Desert Music






Music for Pieces of Wood






Piano Phase


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

No mention yet for Reich's "Proverb", which I think is my favourite work of his.

A gorgeous fusion of his own unique sound with another unique sound, that of Pérotin and the Notre Dame school.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

btw, there must be a mention of Reich's signature trademark -- the cap -- which he never seems to take off these days!

Cool video here:


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

SilverSurfer said:


> Reich's music has also played an important role in contemporary dance; see how the shadows put in images the de-phase method, for instance:


This is interesting. I believe Reich composed most of his works as pure music (except for the works for multimedia), not taking choreography into consideration. In the performance of Piano Phase, the two dancers do not seem to synchronize to the two parts of piano phases independently, but anyway I can only guess that it must be very difficult!


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

Indeed, but I think syncronicity is not the aim, but to "picture" minimalism: you seem to be hearing the same over and over, but something shadowed is happening.
I also think Belgians were the first to see the possibilities of minimalism for dancing (not in a disco...).


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

I had not seen any choreography for Reich's music, and didn't imagine someone would want to dance with a phase piece. However, I think Glass's _Dance_ was for a collaboration with a choreographer. (I suppose it is much easier...)


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another landmark composition by Reich which needs to be studied by everyone in the world:


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

That, I agree, as well as with all the "Counterpoint" pieces, in any instrument, such as these ones:

http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-reich-lp.aspx


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Even the marvelous Radiohead play Steve Reich covers too:






People do bow to the almighty Reich for the variety of approaches that he takes with them.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

This short, surprisingly not-that-well-known 1973 piece is sort of a bridge between _Drumming_ and _18 Musicians_:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

And we mustn't forget that the great Reich even did quite a wonderful opera too:


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2015)

This is a cool video for the Music For Pieces Of Wood. It shows five lines of colored blocks so you can visualize the complex combination of rhythmic patterns in Reich's music, so you actually know where that "trance" feeling is coming from


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here is the complete works for Reich's recent effort inspired by Radiohead which shows him being attuned to the pulse of contemporary society.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Can anyone recommend a good recording of Berlioz's Requiem? I have this one but I'm not crazy about it: http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Requiem-Symphonie-Fantastique-Hector/dp/B000002SET


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Can anyone recommend a good recording of Berlioz's Requiem? I have this one but I'm not crazy about it: http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Requiem-Symphonie-Fantastique-Hector/dp/B000002SET


Here you go... Davis is very good with his Berlioz:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Berlioz - can't explain why 'cos Mrs H has called me to the dining table (I normally cook on Sunday but today I have to do as I am told!)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For those of you prone to liking opera and have yet to hear Berlioz' Les Troyens, I suggest you give it a try.


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Berlioz is one of my very favorite composers. In 19 days i'm seeing one of my favorite works of his live, _La Damnation de Faust_, with Andrew Davis conducting. So excited!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

isorhythm said:


> Can anyone recommend a good recording of Berlioz's Requiem? I have this one but I'm not crazy about it: http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Requiem-Symphonie-Fantastique-Hector/dp/B000002SET


...and another Davis performance...


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another wonderful Reich that feels so peaceful. Worth listening to:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Berlioz vs Reich?

For me that's like asking do I want to see Liverpool play at Anfield (and thrash Utd for the Premiership) or some kids kick about on a car park (playing rebounds off a wall) - but I can see that I'm very much in a minority here


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another Reich piece which is very effective and exquisite:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Reich is generally not interested in "going somewhere" in the usual Western classical sense, especially not in his early works. If you approach him that way, you're going to be disappointed.


I've tried a number of times listening to the 'Nonsuch' retrospective without avoiding disappointment - genuinely, respectfully, I ask ... how *should* I approach Reich's music?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I've tried a number of times listening to the 'Nonsuch' retrospective without avoiding disappointment - genuinely, respectfully, I ask ... how *should* I approach Reich's music?


To approach Reich's music, I would look for rhythm and patterns first.

I suggest watching this documentary first about him:


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Berlioz vs Reich?
> 
> For me that's like asking do I want to see Liverpool play at Anfield (and thrash Utd for the Premiership) or some kids kick about on a car park (playing rebounds off a wall) - but I can see that I'm very much in a minority here


Yea You know, it's not easy for a substandard modernist like Berlioz to stand up to a giant like Little Stevie Reich... 

For me very different composers but both very worthwhile! Maybe quite the opposites attract!

Two Steve Reich's today:









Slightly uneven, but interesting to hear "Diffrent Trains" for orchestra, the Tripple Quartet gets better treatment on the Nonsuch release.









_You Are_ might well be his best work for voices, _Cello Counterpoint_ don't touch me at all!

Will try to schedule some Berlioz tomorrow!

/ptr


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I tried to locate some connection between Berlioz and Reich and so far, no luck here.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

^That documentary is good.



Headphone Hermit said:


> I've tried a number of times listening to the 'Nonsuch' retrospective without avoiding disappointment - genuinely, respectfully, I ask ... how *should* I approach Reich's music?


Hard to say. Has anything you've heard disappointed you less?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Perhaps seeing the influence of rock music on Reich's composition style could help?


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> ^That documentary is good.


Okey-dokey. Fair play, isorhythm, when I've got an hour to spend, I'll watch the documentary and take it from there. Cheers :tiphat:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> Perhaps seeing the influence of rock music on Reich's composition style could help?


hahaha - no, I don't think so! I left 'rock' behind when I moved into _Echo and the Bunnymen_ in the early 1980s (before I discovered the joys of Berlioz etc!)


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> hahaha - no, I don't think so! I left 'rock' behind when I moved into _Echo and the Bunnymen_ in the early 1980s (before I discovered the joys of Berlioz etc!)


The thing is that I feel that even though Reich is classified as a minimalist composer, that label is just too lumpy. Reich has explored many influences ranging from Eastern music to medieval chants to rock/pop (Radiohead) to opera/vocal to sampling. So you can't really distill his works all that easily.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Okey-dokey. Fair play, isorhythm, when I've got an hour to spend, I'll watch the documentary and take it from there. Cheers :tiphat:


Actually, if you have a free hour, you might want to just listen to _Music for 18 Musicians_, with no distractions - unless you already have a strong dislike for the piece.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ (edit - in reply to Albert) .... but so what?

You asked if the link with rock music would help me to appreciate Reich - and I replied that I wasn't intersted in rock, so I don't care if he was a big influence on _The Ruttles_ or if _The Wombles_ were a big influence on him.

and I have no interest in 'distilling' Reich or labelling etc etc etc (just in case you were wondering!)


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Digging through my collection of old magazine articles.

From an article in _BBC Music Magazine_ from back in 1996:


> Many musicians dislike Reich's music intensely. The reasons they give are often contradictory and even irrational; they react as if it insulted them personally.
> ...
> He made John Cage's point that rhythm is the first element of music, and the next is timbre. 'With just those two, you can have music,' he said, clapping his hands to show me... 'If you look at Balinese music, African music, Pérotin, Bach and jazz you will find a series of rhythmic structures which are analogous [to mine], and a certain performance ethos; while if you look in the other direction at Schubert, Brahms and Bruckner, you find another one.'


Here's Reich himself in _Gramophone_ in 2011:


> Brahms is a great composer... but I don't want to hear a note of it, not now, not later, not ever. Same thing for Mahler, Wagner, Sibelius. If it all disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't even know. If you don't follow that discipline of a fixed beat, I'm not interested. In fact I'm profoundly disinterested.


Then from an article in the magazine a year later:


> What Reich is opposed to is the idea that music should actively cajole the emotional responses of the listener. Which isn't to say that he doesn't want his audiences to be moved by his music, quite the reverse, but instead that he wants listeners to decide for themselves how they feel about his music and not how he - by composerly sleight of hand - should seek to prod and poke them into feeling.


Obviously one doesn't have to share Reich's view of the Romantic tradition to like his music, but if one dislikes his music the above quotes may help clarify why.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

By the way, it does bug me a lot that Berlioz doesn't get heard or mentioned very often here. He is a superb composer and very ambitious and very poetic.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Obviously one doesn't have to share Reich's view of the Romantic tradition to like his music, but if one dislikes his music the above quotes may help clarify why.


Ah!!! That's a very interesting point.

Yes, I love the highly and overtly emotional aspect to Berlioz' music (and his writings too, for that matter) and that aspect of his music is one of the great appeals to me of a lot of the music that I like .... and is also sometimes reported as being a reason why many people dislike Berlioz' music.

Hmm - I'll consider this more as I listen to isorhythm's suggestion (if I get a chance)


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Ah!!! That's a very interesting point.
> 
> Yes, I love the highly and overtly emotional aspect to Berlioz' music (and his writings too, for that matter) and that aspect of his music is one of the great appeals to me of a lot of the music that I like .... and is also sometimes reported as being a reason why many people dislike Berlioz' music.
> 
> Hmm - I'll consider this more as I listen to isorhythm's suggestion (if I get a chance)


Absolutely.

Music that's well-crafted but 'pleasantly boring' never has a place in my affections.

'Restraint,'- who wants_ that_?

I need the red-blooded and the vital- no half-measures. _;D_


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

In fact it's too bad that I can't listen to Reich at all this month. Next month I may listen to Morton Feldman and Reich in parallel and figure out how each composer is hypnotic in his own way.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ (edit - agin, to MB not Albert!)

*I need the red-blooded and the vital- no half-measures. ;D*

I have no idea who Blair is ... but that type of demand reminds me of 'Lucy' from Peanuts


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> ^^^ (edit - agin, to MB not Albert!)
> 
> *I need the red-blooded and the vital- no half-measures. ;D*
> 
> I have no idea who Blair is ... but that type of demand reminds me of 'Lucy' from Peanuts


No half-measures is something that Walter White would say... I just know that I got hooked onto Reich early on in my life and his works have had a huge impact on my listening over the years.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Berlioz vs Reich?
> 
> For me that's like asking do I want to see Liverpool play at Anfield *(and thrash Utd for the Premiership*) or some kids kick about on a car park (playing rebounds off a wall) - but I can see that I'm very much in a minority here


Perhaps you meant "in the premiership". "For" implies going on to win it, which is quite clearly one of the more unlikely things I could possibly think of.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

albertfallickwang said:


> I tried to locate some connection between Berlioz and Reich and so far, no luck here.


Really? _Clapping Music_ directly quotes the _un bal_ movement of _Symphonie Fantastique._


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> ^^^ (edit - agin, to MB not Albert!)
> 
> *I need the red-blooded and the vital- no half-measures. ;D*
> 
> I have no idea who Blair is ... but that type of demand reminds me of 'Lucy' from Peanuts


'Blair Warner' is a privileged, clueless, waspy, blonde, fashionite on the American sitcom _The Facts of Life_. Her and I really must have been separated at birth- she's an analogue to me in so many blonde ways.

Lucy's stentorian declamation would get drowned out by Blair's hair flip if ever the two did meet. _;D _


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Skilmarilion said:


> Really? _Clapping Music_ directly quotes the _un bal_ movement of _Symphonie Fantastique._


Holy beep. No kidding?

I need to hear both pieces next month then again.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Of course no one likes half-measures.

Restraint has its place - Mozart and Schubert knew when to exercise it - but it certainly does not apply to the music of either Berlioz or Reich.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Of course no one likes half-measures.
> 
> Restraint has its place - Mozart and Schubert knew when to exercise it - but it certainly does not apply to the music of either Berlioz or Reich.


Everything in moderation including moderation.

My favorite Mozart is spirited and not leaden.

_;D_


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Everything in moderation including moderation.
> 
> My favorite Mozart is spirited and not leaden.
> 
> _;D_


Mozart is never leaden.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Mozart is never leaden.


I agree.

I wish some conductors would see it my way though.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> Can anyone recommend a good recording of Berlioz's Requiem? I have this one but I'm not crazy about it: http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Requiem-Symphonie-Fantastique-Hector/dp/B000002SET











Awesome - Huge forces - That special McCreesh touch.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Proverb and Different Trains are my 2 favourite Reich pieces. The percussion orientated works like Clapping Song and Drumming are all very clever. But I don't enjoy listening to them for pleasure.

Berlioz wrote 2 of the biggest and best works of the 19th Century in his magnificent Messe des Morts and the wonderful Les Troyens.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

MagneticGhost said:


> Proverb and Different Trains are my 2 favourite Reich pieces. The percussion orientated works like Clapping Song and Drumming are all very clever. But I don't enjoy listening to them for pleasure.
> 
> Berlioz wrote 2 of the biggest and best works of the 19th Century in his magnificent Messe des Morts and the wonderful Les Troyens.


I would unhesitatingly add his absolute masterpiece _Benvenutto Cellini_. The opera has some of the most beautifully-exuberant operatic passages I've heard _anywhere_.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

A kickbutt mallet piece by Reich that is worth checking out:


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

^^^^I've yet to hear this one. I'll have to rectify that at some point this Berlioz March.


edit - IN reply to MB but not quickly enough 

Not that I've heard Mallet music either.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

A seminal piece that reminds me of a percussive version of Morton Feldman


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

MagneticGhost said:


> ^^^^I've yet to hear this one. I'll have to rectify that at some point this Berlioz March.
> 
> edit - IN reply to MB but not quickly enough
> 
> Not that I've heard Mallet music either.


You're in for _SUCH_ a treat. The celebratory choruses from Act II with all of the orchestral and choral cross-rhythms are absolutely _THRIL-LING_.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

^^I actually prefer the 2002 recording of _Drumming_ by Ictus.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> ^^I actually prefer the 2002 recording of _Drumming_ by Ictus.


Okay cool beans I will need to check out that version later on then. Thanks!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Skilmarilion said:


> Perhaps you meant "in the premiership". "For" implies going on to win it, which is quite clearly one of the more unlikely things I could possibly think of.


In case anyone is checking for consistency in my 'like' behaviour, this is an occasion where you got a 'like' from me for making me laugh rather than for me agreeing to your comment. I can but dream ... (yes, I know its a dream! hahaha!)


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another crucial Reich piece which is a must listen to:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> 'Blair Warner' is a privileged, clueless, waspy, blonde, fashionite on the American sitcom _The Facts of Life_. Her and I really must have been separated at birth- she's an analogue to me in so many blonde ways.
> 
> Lucy's stentorian declamation would get drowned out by Blair's hair flip if ever the two did meet. _;D _


I very much suspect that the Hermit finding 55mins 37seconds for this clip is even less likely than him hearing _You'll Never Walk Alone_ sung as the Premiership Trophy is paraded before the Kop :lol:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

One Reich piece which is lighter in tone than his usual nerdy pieces:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I very much suspect that the Hermit finding 55mins 37seconds for this clip is even less likely than him hearing _You'll Never Walk Alone_ sung as the Premiership Trophy is paraded before the Kop :lol:


That went _way_ over my head.

My job is merely to spend and to look beautiful.

Keynesian aggregate demand depends on me.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Long live Berlioz and the greatest opera ever written, Les Troyens!!! :clap::clap:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Long live Berlioz and the greatest opera ever written, Les Troyens!!! :clap::clap:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ Have you listened to it many times yet? (Its a serious question, not a wind up)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Itullian said:


>


The Sorrow and the Pity!!! :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> ^^^ Have you listened to it many times yet? (Its a serious question, not a wind up)


Surprising because Itullian loves opera. Coming from anyone else....


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Some of Reich's main influences:






Perotin took a chant melody and stretched it out to the point where each note becomes more like a drone, with the other three voices singing intricate counterpoint over it. When the note finally does change the effect is dramatic. Similarly, in _Music for 18 Musicians_, Reich took a series of 11 chords - stated at the outset of the piece in a series of pulses - and then stretched them out so each chord becomes the basis for a whole contrapuntally elaborated section.






Coltrane builds the entire 16-minute-long first track on Africa/Brass essentially on a single tonic drone. Most of the interest of the piece comes from rhythm, timbre and the development of short melodic figures. There is no harmonic progression. This was hugely influential on Reich and other minimalists.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

An unusual Reich piece featuring the violin. Not his usual instrumental but who cares? It's all good!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

What is a morning without a Reich piece? Time for me to post up another gem:


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

I am enjoying a couple of glasses of Rosé whilst listening to the Berlioz Requiem. The wife is out. The children are asleep. The dog is sleeping next to me on the sofa. The fire is on and all is cosy and warm.

And right now I think the opening to the Sanctus is the most beautiful passage of music ever written. A wave of deep nostalgia is washing over me and I don't even know what I'm pining for.












Need more wine!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another lovely Reich classic piece:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MagneticGhost said:


> I am enjoying a couple of glasses of Rosé whilst listening to the Berlioz Requiem. The wife is out. The children are asleep. The dog is sleeping next to me on the sofa. The fire is on and all is cosy and warm.
> 
> And right now I think the opening to the Sanctus is the most beautiful passage of music ever written. A wave of deep nostalgia is washing over me and I don't even know what I'm pining for.
> 
> Need more wine!


You may be pining for the "Sanctus" as sung by Leopold Simoneau on the old Charles Munch/Boston Symphony recording. Whatever other version you own or prefer, the Munch/BSO is necessary if you love the tenor solo. Simoneau is angelic.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Reich gets inventive with wood:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I am astonished how quickly interest died in this thread today. So I post our daily Reich piece... this is a fascinating one with organ which Reich doesn't usually compose for.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Tonight mahlerian is featuring this wonderful piece by Berlioz on TinyChat:






Lots of people are listening to it which is great!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Okay Berlioz is such a genius. Why he isn't a favorite amongst a lot more people baffles me. What a consummate melodist at his prime. And he didn't always work in orthodox forms but at least he mastered everything that he touched.

Ten thumbs up for some lyrical poetry at work. And hopefully we can get some people to share their thoughts on his works.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

These composers deserve better than page 3!

Does anyone know anything about this song cycle? I can't find much about it.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

More Reich for today:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So now! It's already March 7th. Have we all heard at least one complete performance of Berlioz' Les Troyens, so we can finally discuss it?


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Haydn man said:


> Well here we are in March and the next 2 names for composers of the month
> Hector Berlioz
> Steve Reich
> 
> ...


Just wondering, who determined those are the composers of the month?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Okay time for more Reich here.






Organs not a typical Reichian instrument.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> So now! It's already March 7th. Have we all heard at least one complete performance of Berlioz' Les Troyens, so we can finally discuss it?


Berlioz wrote a work about male contraceptive devices? The mind boggles.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Berlioz wrote a work about male contraceptive devices? The mind boggles.


Way ahead of his time. :lol:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Berlioz wrote a work about male contraceptive devices? The mind boggles.


awwwww... okay hahaha.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

hpowders said:


> So now! It's already March 7th. Have we all heard at least one complete performance of Berlioz' Les Troyens, so we can finally discuss it?


Afraid I have had very little time so far this month for music but Les Troyens is on the list
So far it has been Steve Reich in the time I have had, inventive and unusual. Initial thoughts are that some of his works do go on a bit e.g Drumming. 
However it is still early days so no hasty judgements


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Handel said:


> Just wondering, who determined those are the composers of the month?


If you hunt back you will find the thread proposing the original idea, therein all will be revealed


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Last night I had the pleasure and privilege of attending the Dublin performance of Reich's _Music for 18 Musicians_ with members of Bang on a Can All-Stars, Crash Ensemble, So Percussion and Chamber Choir Ireland.

Heaven.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Last night I had the pleasure and privilege of attending the Dublin performance of Reich's _Music for 18 Musicians_ with members of Bang on a Can All-Stars, Crash Ensemble, So Percussion and Chamber Choir Ireland.
> 
> Heaven.


And here is the piece, in case anyone is curious:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Does anyone know anything about this song cycle? *I can't find much about it*.


Are you serious? This is a really well-known song cycle with dozens of recordings and buckets of stuff written about it available on the web ... there's even a 65 page dissertation available at http://repository.wellesley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1276&context=thesiscollection


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Reich piece of the day... I just noted that he is the composer probably with the most uses of the word "Counterpoint" in his titles. I don't think that even Bach got to use it as much as he did.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Are you serious? This is a really well-known song cycle with dozens of recordings and buckets of stuff written about it available on the web ... there's even a 65 page dissertation available at http://repository.wellesley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1276&context=thesiscollection


I was serious! I am pretty ignorant about Berlioz, and honestly about most 19th century music that isn't by very serious Germans. This dissertation will be educational.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

A pop group redoing Reich in a rather fascinating manner:


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> Reich piece of the day... I just noted that he is the composer probably with the most uses of the word "Counterpoint" in his titles. I don't think that even Bach got to use it as much as he did.


Reich has struck me as someone who has often used rather literal titles - not necessarily a bad thing, at least you have a good idea what the piece might be like: Music for 18 Musicians, Pendulum Music, Clapping Music, and so on among his earlier works; the Counterpoint series, of course; lately he's gotten a bit more imaginative but still... he reworks Radiohead and calls it "Radio Rewrite", and "WTC 9/11" is a rather more prosaic title than, say, "On the Transmigration of Souls".


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Reich has struck me as someone who has often used rather literal titles - not necessarily a bad thing, at least you have a good idea what the piece might be like: Music for 18 Musicians, Pendulum Music, Clapping Music, and so on among his earlier works; the Counterpoint series, of course; lately he's gotten a bit more imaginative but still... he reworks Radiohead and calls it "Radio Rewrite", and "WTC 9/11" is a rather more prosaic title than, say, "On the Transmigration of Souls".


Indeed... the prosiac titles I think are designed to reflect the conceptual arc for the pieces that he is composing. For example, here is:






In fact, the description of the "type" (in this case location) of marimbas is a good correspondent to the timbre of the instrument he is working with. I think that Reich's avoidance of the overly descriptive fits in line with his fascination with the intersection between the everyday and the seclusion that such music would impart on the listener...

And honestly I think there is a colorfulness within the pieces that doesn't have to be reflected necessarily in the title. Perhaps simplicity and straightforwardness is Reich's mantra.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> In fact, the description of the type of marimbas is a good correspondent to the timbre of the instrument he is working with. I think that Reich's avoidance of the overly descriptive fits in line with his fascination with the intersection between the everyday and the seclusion that such music would impart on the listener...
> 
> And honestly I think there is a colorfulness within the pieces that doesn't have to be reflected necessarily in the title. Perhaps simplicity and straightforwardness is Reich's mantra.


Well, it's no odder than calling a piece of music "Symphony in C minor", of course!
Not sure what you mean about "the desription of the type of marimbas", though: I thought Nagoya Marimbas got its name because it was commissioned by Nagoya College of Music.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Well, it's no odder than calling a piece of music "Symphony in C minor", of course!
> Not sure what you mean about "the desription of the type of marimbas", though: I thought Nagoya Marimbas got its name because it was commissioned by Nagoya College of Music.


Indeed you are correct about that:

World Premiere
12/21/1994
Shirakawa Hall, Nagoya College of Music, Nagoya 
Sekar Sakura, marimba / Yuki Kurihara, marimba / Maki Kurihara, marimba /

However, Reich's appreciation for the marmibas I think isn't just a referent to the place where the commission but also I think that here "Nagoya" is being used as an adjective as well. Just like the term "wind chimes" and not just "chimes." It is the Japanese flavor that Reich is trying to arch towards in fact. This is also an acknowledgment to the strong Eastern and Buddhist influences that color the patterns/sounds/structure that his pieces are embedded into.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> I was serious! I am pretty ignorant about Berlioz, and honestly about most 19th century music that isn't by very serious Germans. This dissertation will be educational.


I meant 'Are you serious that you cannot find anything about a very well-known piece of music'? I assumed that a few moments with a search engine would provide you with tons of info


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Also it's time for me to provide some just due to giving some wonderful pieces in the past to Berlioz as well.






I just love the descriptive composition here. It is very colorful and shows Berlioz as a very powerful orchestrator here.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Haydn man, how is your listening going lately for Reich or Berlioz?


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

For a variety of reasons I have had little time for music listening
I have listened to a scattering of Reich and very little Berlioz, and so have not posted comments
I had also noted that in common with previous months, after the initial burst of postings the thread has quickly dried up. I am aware that you have supported this and posted many YouTube clips, but it seems to me that there is limited support for this composer of the month idea.
If someone else wishes to carry on this idea, revamp or relaunch it then that would be good. At the moment, with my limited time I do not propose to start any further Composer of the Month threads


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Haydn man said:


> For a variety of reasons I have had little time for music listening
> I have listened to a scattering of Reich and very little Berlioz, and so have not posted comments
> I had also noted that in common with previous months, after the initial burst of postings the thread has quickly dried up. I am aware that you have supported this and posted many YouTube clips, but it seems to me that there is limited support for this composer of the month idea.
> If someone else wishes to carry on this idea, revamp or relaunch it then that would be good. At the moment, with my limited time I do not propose to start any further Composer of the Month threads


Sounds good then. I will miss this project. Next month I will be embarking on my Lizst listening project.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2015)

Haydn man said:


> I do not propose to start any further Composer of the Month threads


Then for sure let there be another pitch for Berlioz' _Benvenuto Cellini._

Berlioz is probably the least prolific major composer of the nineteenth century. And also probably still the least known, even though he only wrote a handful of works and even though all of them are available on recordings. Oddly enough, he was also quite possibly the most influencial composer of the nineteenth century, his influence also reaching well into the twentieth. But very few listeners are aware of his influence, and so conversations about music generally are always a bit skewed by leaving out the contributions of one of the major players of the time. For a time, almost the only major player, though fortunately _that_ didn't last very long.

It is odd though that his indefatigable (well, literally quite remarkably fatigable in actual fact) efforts to promote new music, both by himself and by others have practically vanished from sight. And yet, he was all over the place, arranging concerts, conducting, training people how to play new music, promoting the music of his idol, Beethoven (who outside Germany was considered a crazy man who wrote crazy and incomprehensible music that you would never program because that would turn people away), and of his other idol, Gluck, who was always being overlooked.

You know that "Russian sound" that you all think is so cool? Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, and so forth? That's largely, according to Jacques Barzun, the result of Berlioz. Berlioz travelled to Russia a lot, and the Russians adored him and learned quite a lot from him. Of course, there's Russian folk music, which Berlioz had nothing to do with. But the sound of Russian orchestral music is by and large owing to how much the Russian dug the way Berlioz wrote for orchestra.

Anyway, this a long post for someone who doesn't post here any more, but hearing that Haydn man is not going to float any more of these made me want to put in one last word for the composer from the nineteenth century who most interests me. And to put in one last word for all the tremendous music that hardly anyone mentions much less actually listens to.

_Benvenuto Cellini._ The overture that Albert7 posted is music from _Benvenuto Cellini._ Its stage history is depressing. The rabid antagonism directed towards it--towards Berlioz generally--was persistent and ultimately successful.* Berlioz finally just pulled some tunes out of it and slapped them together into what would ironically become one of his two or three most famous works. And yet, the whole opera is so wildly and so consistently cool. Oh well. Listen to it! If you love your ears, listen to this opera. It is spectacular.

_Lélio._ This is Berlioz opus 14b. Opus 14a is the _Symphonie fantastique._ At the time, this was probably Berlioz most popular piece. It's the kind of hodge-podge that people of the time thought was pretty cool, but it became less so as time went on, so it's rarely played, even though it contains some really stunning music. Colin Davis recorded this without the spoken part, thinking that people would listen to the music at least. A mistake. At least with the narrative, the otherwise unrelated bits and pieces from Berlioz discard drawer make narrative sense. And the narrative gives a musical pacing to the whole venture. The music makes narrative sense and the narration makes musical sense. But only if you do everything together as M. Boulez does in an as yet unsurpassed recording of the unknown half of the opus 14.

_Marche funèbre pour la dernière scène d'Hamlet._ Not one of Berlioz big, famous pieces. It is, however, a perfect jewel of a piece. It is echt Berlioz. I want to play this more often than any other piece aside from _Benvenuto Cellini._ I resist that temptation for fear of wearing it out. Plus, it's so wildly gorgeous it makes me want to tear my own head off and roll it across the floor.

_L'enfance du Christ._ Fairly well known, but I don't see it mentioned much. And not considered typical, though it's as genuinely Berlioz as any other of his works. In fact, I think that if you like what you hear in the first ten minutes or so, then you will like anything else that Berlioz wrote. It's that typical. And that good.

_Roméo et Juliette._ Another piece that some conductors have eviscerated in the interest of getting people to listen to any of it. Another piece that only works if you play the whole thing all the way through. And it is splendid. It's tricky, though. In common with a lot of other Berlioz, a bad performance can kill it. And there are mostly only bad performances of this. You have to be really careful. Monteux is still unsurpassed, I think. There used to be two pressings of this, one that allowed all the weaknesses of the earlier technology to shine through. Fortunately, that one is now almost impossible to find. Instead, there's a remastered version that allows the natural beauty of instruments playing and people singing to shine through.

But it is still an old recording. If you simply have to have something more modern, then I would reluctantly point you to Davis' second recording of it.

Finally, I'd like to put in a good word for one of Berlioz' Prix de Rome cantatas, not the famous one that needs no pumping up from me, but an earlier one, _La Mort D'Orphée._ This is a really delightful work, and quite full of lots of characteristic Berlioz touches. Maybe a titch gawky, but still. He obviously hit his stride quite early and never let up. Overlapping melodies--melodies that seem at first to have no relation--casual dissonances, interesting intrumental combinations (creating unprecedented sounds). It's all there already in _La Mort D'Orphée._ And not just a curiosity, either. It's a fine piece and a fun listen from start to finish.

There are at least two recording of this. I haven't kept track. Only one is any good: Jean Fournet on Denon. It's an all cantata disc, but _La Mort D'Orphée_ is worth the price of admission all on its own. So the other pieces don't even have to be as cool as they are.

*It reminds me of something else, which is why I have been so persistent in turn in trying to combat rabid antagonism towards new music, wherever and whenever I find it. That is, wherever and whenever it finds me. Remember, I discovered twentieth century music for myself and fell in love with it as much or more than I had fallen in love with earlier classical music, also discovered for myself when I was nine. My first love was met with indifference. My second love was met with antagonism. "But this stuff is so cool!" Nope. Too ugly. Too noisy. Written just to **** people off. "But it's not, and it doesn't." Well, you're hardly a "typical" listener then.

And so it went. Pfffft.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2015)

Haydn man said:


> So far it has been Steve Reich in the time I have had, inventive and unusual. Initial thoughts are that some of his works do go on a bit e.g Drumming.


If it doesn't go on a bit, it isn't Steve Reich!


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 13, 2014)

some guy's back! :tiphat:


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