# Help with the Russians



## davinci

I have a sizable collection of the Germanic / Viennese influenced composers and am looking to broaden my horizons with the Russian/Soviet Bloc composers. (Classical, Romantic and Late periods)

I own the usual suspects; Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Borodin, Dvorak, Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky. Have a cycle of Gergiev/Prokofiev symphonies, although it may be a bit too modern for me. BTW, I love the sound of minor key compositions.
Any suggestions on where to go next would be appreciated. (I usually start with symphonies or concertos, but love string quartets).

** I can’t believe someone just started a Russian thread as I was writing this.


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## techniquest

If you haven't already done so, I's suggest you try Scriabin. Also a bit of Khachaturian (piano /violin /cello concertos and the first 2 symphonies)


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## Delicious Manager

techniquest said:


> If you haven't already done so, I's suggest you try Scriabin. Also a bit of Khachaturian (piano /violin /cello concertos and the first 2 symphonies)


Khachaturian wasn't Russian - he was Armenian. He didn't even speak Russian until he learnt it aged 19 so he could go to study in Moscow. Remember that the old USSR was a federation of 15 republics, only one of them 'Russian'.


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## MaestroViolinist

WIENIAWSKI!!!!!!!! Well, technically he's Polish, but he spent just about all his life in Russia.


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## Art Rock

Dvorak was of course not Russian by any stretch of the definition of that word.....

I would definitely try Myaskovsky (start with symphony 6 in the version with the choir). Gliere's 3d symphony is definitely worth hearing given your preferences.


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## joen_cph

Among the earlier generation, some more could be mentioned:

*Kalinnikov*´s catchy symphonies, especially the 1st 



 , in the Svetlanov recordings;

*Liadov*. Symphonic poems and piano works, including the magical "The Enchanted lake" 




*Lyapunov*: lots of works, including orchestral works such as "Zelazowa Wola" 




*Arensky*, most of his music is quite attractive. An example: the 1st Symphony 




Somewhat more modern are:

*Medtner*, everything. There´s a good piano box from Brilliant Classics with the sonatas etc.. As regards the piano concertos, Ponti´s fresh approach to the 3rd concerto should be heard IMO.

*Alexander Tcherepnin*, partly an emigré and at times with Chinese inspiration, such as in the lovely Piano Concerto no.4: 




*Kabalevsky*, works of varying quality, but his Cello Concerti form a good start, including the intense 2nd 



 (the Chandos recording with Wallfisch is probably the best version !)

*Samuil Feinberg* wrote excellent piano music in a somewhat Scriabin-like style: an example is the also slightly bluesy Sonata 9 




*Ciurlionis*; well basically there´s just one really important musical work by this multi-talented artist IMO - the symphonic poem "The Sea" 




*Babadjanian*: a ravishing violin concerto, probably his only important work though





*Taktakishvili*: lots of works, including the lovely 1st Violin concerto 




but of course there are literally dozens of more composers from that very rich tradition which was continued up to the present century in Russia/USSR by students of Shostakovich etc.;

a further, obscure example is the piano quintet by *Azarashvili*


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## techniquest

> I have a sizable collection of the Germanic / Viennese influenced composers and am looking to broaden my horizons with the Russian/*Soviet Bloc* composers. (Classical, Romantic and Late periods)


Armenia was however part of the Soviet Union and Khachaturian was seen very much as a Soviet composer being subject to the same accusations of 'formalism' and musical censorship as Shostakovich and Prokofiev. Reading the OP's initial request really does help.


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## davinci

Thanks for the suggestions so far. As soon as I posted my thread I wanted to change _Russian_ and _Soviet_ to _Eastern European_, but was not allowed to make an edit. So, with that in mind, I'm still open to all suggestions.


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## Art Rock

Extending to Eastern Europe and looking at what you like I would suggest:

Poland: Szymanowski and Karlowicz.
Czech: Suk, Novak and Fibich.
Hungary: von Dohnanyi.
Romania: Enescu.


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## MaestroViolinist

Where's Huilunsoittaja? She's really needed here.


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## davinci

Lyapunov and Kalinnikov; very nice. I found Balakirev's piano concertos...now that's what I call Russian.


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## drpraetorus

You must have some Glinka in your collection. most people have at least the overture to Russlan and Ludmilla.


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## drpraetorus

Also Balkierev. I am especially fond of "Tamara" 



 This perfomance is very good but the accoustics sound like it was recorded in a barn. I have a LP of Ernst Anserme and osr. A much better recorded sound.

wikipedia
Tamara may be considered Balakirev's greatest work as well as a touchstone of orientalism. Originally he intended to write a lezginka modeled after Glinka. However, he was inspired by the poetry of Mikhail Lermontov about the seductress Tamara, who waylays travelers in her tower at the gorge of Daryal and allows them to savor a night of sensual delights before killing them and flinging their bodies into the River Terek.[69] Balakirev evokes both the poem's setting of the mountains and gorges of the Caucasus and the angelic and demonically seductive power of the title character. The narrative employs a wide musical range, with the composer supplying great subtlety within a satisfying structure.[62]


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## davinci

drpraetorus said:


> You must have some Glinka in your collection. most people have at least the overture to Russlan and Ludmilla.


I have some Glinka added as filler on a CD, but I will be ordering this CD








Have you heard his operatic works?


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## davinci

drpraetorus said:


> Also Balkierev. I am especially fond of "Tamara"
> 
> 
> 
> This perfomance is very good but the accoustics sound like it was recorded in a barn. I have a LP of Ernst Anserme and osr. A much better recorded sound.
> 
> Yes, magnificent. I just ordered this CD from Amazon. Thanks for the post.


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## davinci

MaestroViolinist said:


> WIENIAWSKI!!!!!!!! Well, technically he's Polish, but he spent just about all his life in Russia.


Thanks for the post. This is now on my Wish List....


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## Ukko

davinci said:


> Thanks for the post. This is now on my Wish List....
> View attachment 10535


It's good music (I haven't heard Shaham). Interesting progression of the guy's musical interests between them; the 1st is mostly a virtuosic showpiece, the second adds depth and breadth.


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## drpraetorus

davinci said:


> I have some Glinka added as filler on a CD, but I will be ordering this CD
> View attachment 10533
> 
> 
> Have you heard his operatic works?


I have heard excerpts from his operas but since he is not "hot box office" getting full recordings is a bit of a search. What I heard, I liked. Check out also his version of the "Jota Ara



gonase" It is quite good. He was one of the first russians to visit outside russia and write on what he heard.


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## superhorn

Technically, Taktakishvili and other composers with names ending with shvili or adze are not Russian, but Georgians. The Georgians are not a Slavic but a Caucasian people, and their language is as different from Russian as Arabic .It even has its own strange looking alphabet . In Georgian, Shvili means "son of ".
Azerbaijani composers such as Fikret Amirov are ethnic Turks .


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## davinci

drpraetorus said:


> I have heard excerpts from his operas but since he is not "hot box office" getting full recordings is a bit of a search. What I heard, I liked. Check out also his version of the "Jota Ara
> 
> That is a fantastic performance and I love Svetlanov's work. Thanks.


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## Huilunsoittaja

MaestroViolinist said:


> Where's Huilunsoittaja? She's really needed here.


I laughed at loud at this. :lol:

I second every Russian composer mentioned so far.

I see that my *One and Only *was skipped by most people in their recommendations, perhaps on purpose, knowing that _he _is my specialty. 

@davinci, if you like minor key works, I'm afraid *Alexander Glazunov* may not be the perfect niche, but he's excellent with majors!  He can make major keys sometimes sound pretty sad too. I heartily suggest his 4th and 5th symphonies, both have some melancholy overtones, and all his ballet music, to start.  Maybe you'd like the Violin Concerto too.

Rachmaninoff was the master of minor key, perhaps. I strongly suggest his Symphonic Dances if you haven't heard those.


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## davinci

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I laughed at loud at this. :lol:
> 
> I second every Russian composer mentioned so far.
> 
> I see that my *One and Only *was skipped by most people in their recommendations, perhaps on purpose, knowing that _he _is my specialty.
> 
> @davinci, if you like minor key works, I'm afraid *Alexander Glazunov* may not be the perfect niche, but he's excellent with majors!  He can make major keys sometimes sound pretty sad too. I heartily suggest his 4th and 5th symphonies, both have some melancholy overtones, and all his ballet music, to start.  Maybe you'd like the Violin Concerto too.
> 
> Rachmaninoff was the master of minor key, perhaps. I strongly suggest his Symphonic Dances if you haven't heard those.


*Huilunsoittaja*, as far as preferring minor key, it's not about sadness...it's about expressing the darkness surrounding the Soviet people.
I listened to some Glazunov and u are correct. The symphonies are nice, but then I heard his Symphony No.2 In F Sharp Minor Op.16 and wow, that is heavy stuff....I loved it. I also like the string quartets; will have to buy some of them.

Thanks for weighing-in and BTW I do like Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances.


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## drpraetorus

Find "Nymphs" by Vasili Kalinikov. There wasn't one on youtube so don't look there. It is a fine piece.


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## drpraetorus

Liadov, From the Apocalypse


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## PhileasFogg

well I would have to suggest Stanchinsky, of course


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## bejart

Russian Classical era composers are few and far between. To build his court orchestra, Peter the Great imported musicians and composers from other parts of Europe. You might find this CD useful to explore some of those early court composers, although none were actually Russian. Berezovsky was Ukranian.

Joseph Starzer (1726-1787)
Anton Ferdinand Titz (1742-1810) 
Pierre Baillot (1771-1842)
Luigi Madonis (1690-1770)
Maxim Berezovsky (1745-1777)
Daniel Steibelt (1765-1823)

View attachment 10717


View attachment 10718


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## davinci

drpraetorus said:


> Find "Nymphs" by Vasili Kalinikov. There wasn't one on youtube so don't look there. It is a fine piece.


I ordered Kalinikov Symph 1 and 2,






and I like the sound of this CD which contains "Nymphs" ...


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## drpraetorus

Khorosho, or, horrorshow as the droogs would say


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## davinci

OK, now that I'm hooked on Glazunov Symphonies, any advice for string quartets? I haven't found many samples on Amazon, but on youtube Quartet No.7 in C, op.107 is the best so far. DG has it on CD, so it's on the wishlist. What else is worth owning?


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## Orfeo

Glazunov's Third Quartet is superb, and a great place to start in his chamber oeuvres. His Suite for String Quartet is likewise excellent as well as the Five Novelettes. Then just venture off, for this quartets are generally very well written and crafted. The ideal performers are the Shostakovich, Utrecht, and Meridian Quartets.


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## Huilunsoittaja

I do like the Novelettes op. 15 very much. The 5th quartet is quite powerful too. I confess to neglecting his chamber music, for fear I won't like it, because I don't like chamber music in general, even if it's Russian.


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## Reinhold

Glière is one of my favorite composers, and Myskovsky, Kabalevsky, Balakirev, Glinka, and Scriabin are all pretty great, just to name a few major individuals.


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## cihlomorka

Art Rock said:


> Extending to Eastern Europe and looking at what you like I would suggest:
> 
> Poland: Szymanowski and Karlowicz.
> Czech: Suk, Novak and Fibich.
> Hungary: von Dohnanyi.
> Romania: Enescu.


I really wonder why Czechs are included to the Eastern Europe if they were all born west from Vienna?


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## cihlomorka

But to the point... I heartily recommend Kabalevsky cello concerto No. 1 



Khachaturian violin concerto 



I also didnt find in your list Alexander Glazunov - I personaly adore his violin concerto 




From the Czech (if you ask for it  ) I would add Smetana and Korngold.


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## Il_Penseroso

Glazunov Symphonic Poem Stanka Razin. It's such a shame that still rarely performed. The conclusion (featuring the famous Song of the Volga Boatmen, a tune which can be heard also at the beginning of the work) is perhaps the most terrific climax among all Russian symphonic works!

And the most wonderful thing about it is that Glazunov was only 20 when he composed such a masterwork!


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## EdwardBast

Reinhold mentioned Myaskovski (Miaskovski) whose output of 27 symphonies includes some very good ones. My favorite, the ninth in E Minor, you will probably like if you like Tchaikovsky's and Rachmaninoff's in those keys. Among the others I like best and that are more or less traditional in form, are 5, 8, 11, 25, 27. There are a number of strange ones, the grandiose no. 6 with choral finale, 10, really a symphonic poem based on Pushkin's The Bronze Horseman, 22, a "symphonic ballad." I think the first four are not really mature works. He also wrote lots of string quartets. 

In general his work is a really mixed bag as far as quality goes. Hope you have a good lending library to try hear them before buying. 

Also, Prokofiev's 5 and 7 are pretty traditional and full of melody.


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## davinci

cihlomorka said:


> But to the point... I heartily recommend Kabalevsky cello concerto No. 1
> 
> 
> 
> Khachaturian violin concerto
> 
> 
> 
> I also didnt find in your list Alexander Glazunov - I personaly adore his violin concerto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the Czech (if you ask for it  ) I would add Smetana and Korngold.


All very good concerti; thanks.


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## Animato

I can't believe nobody named Igor Stravinsky yet. (Or am I mistaken?) His "Rite of Spring" and "Firebird" are marvellous ! They are among my favourite orchestral works. Please take your time and listen to these works !


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## Aramis

The title of this thread is very misleading. As I was entering it, I thought my reply will be "I'm sending my troops right away!".


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## Rhombic

I'm really fond of Russian music, so I'll drop some recommendations here.
*Easy to listen, really important to get a start:*
+ Borodin - Symphony No. 2 in B minor
+ Balakirev - Symphony No. 1 in C Major
+ Kalinnikov - Symphony No. 1 in G minor
*Extra symphonies to listen to:*
+ Scriabin - Symphony No. 2
+ Lyatoshynsky - Symphony No. 3
+ Myaskovsky - Symphony No. 6
+ Myaskovsky - Symphony No. 19
+ Myaskovsky - Symphony No. 23
+ Prokofiev - Symphony No. 1
+ Shostakovich - Symphony No. 7 "Leningrad"
+ Shostakovich - Symphony No. 6


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## TxllxT

An even better introduction to orchestral music of Russia / Soviet Empire & Eastern Europe are the great ballets. Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Khachaturian, Glazunov & many others really performed a feat here that has no comparison whatsoever in the West.


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## Vaneyes

Though I've explored others, the "usual suspects" do it for me--Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, Rimsky-Korsakov, Khachaturian, Kabalevsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky, Schnittke, Gubaidulina. :tiphat:


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## bigshot

Borodin's 2 string quartets are great.


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## bigshot

Everyone on this page forgot poor Mussorgsky!


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## davinci

Thanks for all the suggestions and updating this thread.
I'll reply to some of you: 
_Easy to listen, really important to get a start:
+ Borodin - Symphony No. 2 in B minor
+ Balakirev - Symphony No. 1 in C Major
+ Kalinnikov - Symphony No. 1 in G minor 
Prokofiev - Symphony No. 1
+ Shostakovich - Symphony No. 7 "Leningrad"
+ Shostakovich - Symphony No. 6_

Love them all; I've become a Shostakovich fanatic.

_Borodin's 2 string quartets are great._ 
Already love them.

_Everyone on this page forgot poor Mussorgsky!_
only familiar with "Pictures at an Exhibition"

_Stravinsky "Rite of Spring" and "Firebird_
Yes, EXCELLENT.

So, I think I'll have a listen to Myaskovsky next. Many thanks.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Avoiding Scriabin and Stravinsky (and Gubaidulina, etc) on purpose and this being half a joke half a truth:

Borodin is clearly the greatest Russian. 
Second tier: Mussorgsky and Tchaikovsky. 
Third tier: Glinka, Rimsky-Korsakov, Prokofiev.
Fourth tier: Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Gliere, Balakirev. 
Fifth tier: Taneyev, Glazunov, Myaskovsky, Lyadov, Cui. 
Sixth tier: Rubinstein, Arensky, [under construction]


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## KenOC

Tchaikovsky wrote that Borodin "possesses talent, a very great talent, which however has come to nothing... He has less taste than Cui, and his technique is so poor that he cannot write a bar without assistance."


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## Richannes Wrahms

"Tchaikovsky wanted to be German but couldn't"; Tchaikovsky wrote a lot of "bad" things about other composers.


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