# Second instrument: viola or oboe?



## ConfusedFlutist

Hi everyone.

I am an amateur flutist who wants to join an amateur orchestra eventually. Playing in a good amateur orchestra is in fact something like an ultimate goal for me. The flute is my first instrument and I have been practicing rather heavily over the last year. Unfortunately flutists are a dime a dozen and I doubt I can enter an amateur orchestra with a flute. Now despite my enthusiasm and willingness to practice, I am an adult beginner (26 y.o.) and I know that there will always be flutists with better qualifications and technique no matter where I turn up. Inevitably my attention has turned to the less common instruments of the orchestra and I decided to pick either the viola or the oboe as my second. So I am opening up this thread to get advice from experienced musicians. 

The viola is my favourite in the string family, both for musical and practical purposes (violins too screechy, cellos too big etc). But it is a STRING instrument nevertheless and I find string technique scary. People I've been talking to say that beginning a bowed string instrument as an adult is awkward and difficult. On the other hand, violists are supposed to be in short supply in amateur orchestras. Not sure if that's objectively true. Another advantage is that it is a lot cheaper than the oboe (especially when reeds are included) and possibly requires less maintenance (again, I have zero experience with strings, but oboe maintenance seems really tricky). 

As for the oboe, I love its unique sound. This is also a difficult instrument I am told, but it is a WOODWIND. I cannot help feel that learning the oboe would be rather easier than learning a string instrument from scratch. I know that the embouchures are very different but things like breath support, tongue strength, finger quickness, vibrato etc seem like transferable skills to me. Again, maybe I'm wrong with this. This also brings me to the question of practice. If I practice 2 hours of flute and 1 hour of oboe every day, let's say, I might be able to focus on problems that are exclusive to the oboe. But flute practice and viola practice wouldn't foster the same set of transferable skills I think. On the other hand, are oboes equally in demand? I know that double reeds are rare when compared to flutes and clarinets but orchestras need a lot more strings.

A third option would be to exclusively focus on the flute, to practice like mad, learn the piccolo or the alto flute to get an advantage, etc. But I do not seek to get a musical degree and I don't know how far private lessons will take me. I'm sure there is a learning block waiting me up there somewhere. 

So, any ideas/comments? Feel free to correct my misconceptions and I am looking forward to advice from experienced musicians


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## PetrB

If you pick up the viola, you learn alto clef, and there is NO CONFLICT of embouchure. Not a bad argument.

Oboe, by all reports, is a real bear, and you are Not a Real oboist until you make your own reeds, another more than tricky skill to learn.


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## ConfusedFlutist

PetrB said:


> If you pick up the viola, you learn alto clef, and there is NO CONFLICT of embouchure. Not a bad argument.
> 
> Oboe, by all reports, is a real bear, and you are Not a Real oboist until you make your own reeds, another more than tricky skill to learn.


Hi

Thank you for your comment. The alto clef seems manageable to me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I'd say viola as well. I learnt violin as a second instrument after guitar and I managed to pick it up very quickly and after that I switched to viola (more "in demand" in amateur orchestras and youth orchestras). I was a competent player of a bowed string instrument after about two or three years.


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## ConfusedFlutist

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'd say viola as well. I learnt violin as a second instrument after guitar and I managed to pick it up very quickly and after that I switched to viola (more "in demand" in amateur orchestras and youth orchestras). I was a competent player of a bowed string instrument after about two or three years.


Well, that's quite encouraging! Thank you.


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## ConfusedFlutist

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'd say viola as well. I learnt violin as a second instrument after guitar and I managed to pick it up very quickly and after that I switched to viola (more "in demand" in amateur orchestras and youth orchestras). I was a competent player of a bowed string instrument after about two or three years.


How much did you practice in average, if I may ask?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ConfusedFlutist said:


> How much did you practice in average, if I may ask?


~2 to 2.5 hrs guitar as always
Starting out on violin, 45 mins to 1 hr, but later on an hour or more (usually just an hour.)
Learning a second isntrument is usually a lot quicker after learning the first but it all comes down to how you practise not how much. 
With viola I would usually do 30 minutes in the morning and 30 or more again in the afternoon due to my schedule.


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## ConfusedFlutist

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> ~2 to 2.5 hrs guitar as always
> Starting out on violin, 45 mins to 1 hr, but later on an hour or more (usually just an hour.)
> Learning a second isntrument is usually a lot quicker after learning the first but it all comes down to how you practise not how much.


Well yes I'm sure learning a second instrument is a lot easier but dunno... strings and woodwinds are as different as they can be in terms of technique.


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## schuberkovich

Viola. Even though it is difficult to sound good at first on both (with viola being slightly harder), if you are concerned about getting into an orchestra I would think that viola would be more useful. This is because they can just shove you to the back desk, and there isn't really a strict limit to the number of strings in an orchestra, whereas there can only be around 3 oboes.


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## ConfusedFlutist

schuberkovich said:


> Viola. Even though it is difficult to sound good at first on both (with viola being slightly harder), if you are concerned about getting into an orchestra I would think that viola would be more useful. This is because they can just shove you to the back desk, and there isn't really a strict limit to the number of strings in an orchestra, whereas there can only be around 3 oboes.


Thank you for your reply. Since it takes years of practice to get to orchestra-level playing anyway (even in an amateur setting), sounding good at first would be no big concern.


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## Ravndal

Oboe of you like blowing air trough a very small tube!

More seriously, i have always wanted to play oboe as second instrument after i heard the concerto vaughan Williams


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## ConfusedFlutist

That's an interesting way to paraphrase my dilemma :lol:

What is your first instrument? Another woodwind?


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## Ravndal

Nope. Piano 

1515


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## ConfusedFlutist

Ravndal said:


> Nope. Piano
> 
> 1515


The avatar should have been a clue.. lol

You may find wind instruments highly annoying after piano -- lots of tone and intonation problems, producing noise is so much easier, etc.


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## Ravndal

Perhaps. But producing beautiful tones on the piano takes a very long time as well!


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## OboeKnight

Personally, I think the oboe is the only option haha. Of course, I'm extremely biased since I am an oboist. Honestly, the oboe is so demanding that I don't think it should be anyone's "second" instrument. If you want to be really good at the oboe, you need to really focus on it. Hours and hours of practice on both the instrument itself and reed making. I played clarinet for years before I started oboe, and I've pretty much had to just drop clarinet except for the odd performance or lesson here and there. If you want to be a soloist in an orchestra, the oboe always has some interesting and beautiful parts. Learning to play the most difficult woodwind definitely has it's advantages though. You are correct when you say that there is high demand for good oboists. They are rare, and finding an good one is even rarer. If you are willing to put in a lot of work, then you should try the oboe. It is certainly rewarding


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## ConfusedFlutist

OboeKnight said:


> Personally, I think the oboe is the only option haha. Of course, I'm extremely biased since I am an oboist. Honestly, the oboe is so demanding that I don't think it should be anyone's "second" instrument. If you want to be really good at the oboe, you need to really focus on it. Hours and hours of practice on both the instrument itself and reed making. I played clarinet for years before I started oboe, and I've pretty much had to just drop clarinet except for the odd performance or lesson here and there. If you want to be a soloist in an orchestra, the oboe always has some interesting and beautiful parts. Learning to play the most difficult woodwind definitely has it's advantages though. You are correct when you say that there is high demand for good oboists. They are rare, and finding an good one is even rarer. If you are willing to put in a lot of work, then you should try the oboe. It is certainly rewarding


Thank you! I value your opinion as an oboist. What you say also confirms the opinion of an oboe teacher I've talked to, who said that she had to give up the flute as her second instrument to focus on her oboe tone. Sadly, there is no way I'm giving up the flute -- I love the sound and the repertoire too much.

What is your opinion on embouchure conflict? Did you ever play another wind instrument (or do you have friends who did?)


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## OboeKnight

ConfusedFlutist said:


> Thank you! I value your opinion as an oboist. What you say also confirms the opinion of an oboe teacher I've talked to, who said that she had to give up the flute as her second instrument to focus on her oboe tone. Sadly, there is no way I'm giving up the flute -- I love the sound and the repertoire too much.
> 
> What is your opinion on embouchure conflict? Did you ever play another wind instrument (or do you have friends who did?)


Yes, I play clarinet and saxophone. when I first started oboe,I would switch between clarinet and oboe during concerts to cover the most important parts of the music (I was principal clarinet in my high school band so this was necessary). I hadn't really developed a proper oboe embouchure at that time so the switch wasn't too bad. Once I learned the proper embouchure, it became a problem to switch because the clarinet is played so differently. We got some strong clarinet s in the band the next year so I just went to oboe only. This is the biggest reason that I try to only play clarinet occasionally...it really messes with my oboe playing. I,'ve found that tenor sax doesn't cause much of a problem because the embouchure is very loose, so I can play that more comfortably. Right now though, I'm playing in a musical where I have to switch between clarinet, oboe, and tenor sometimes 3 times in one number! So in those situations, you just have to get over it lol.


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## ConfusedFlutist

OboeKnight said:


> Yes, I play clarinet and saxophone. when I first started oboe,I would switch between clarinet and oboe during concerts to cover the most important parts of the music (I was principal clarinet in my high school band so this was necessary). I hadn't really developed a proper oboe embouchure at that time so the switch wasn't too bad. Once I learned the proper embouchure, it became a problem to switch because the clarinet is played so differently. We got some strong clarinet s in the band the next year so I just went to oboe only. This is the biggest reason that I try to only play clarinet occasionally...it really messes with my oboe playing. I,'ve found that tenor sax doesn't cause much of a problem because the embouchure is very loose, so I can play that more comfortably. Right now though, I'm playing in a musical where I have to switch between clarinet, oboe, and tenor sometimes 3 times in one number! So in those situations, you just have to get over it lol.


Flute embouchure is also supposed to be relaxed...

What about transferable skills between woodwinds? Surely your clarinet technique helped a lot when you first picked up the oboe and the sax?


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## OboeKnight

Yep, clarinet really made sax easy because a lot of the fingering are exactly the same, and they are both single reeds. The double reed took some getting used to, and it was a whole new set of fingerings. There are still a few similarities.


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## KateSmith

I got used to viola.. I like its sound more


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## ConfusedFlutist

KateSmith said:


> I got used to viola.. I like its sound more


And your first instrument was?


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