# THe mannliest of the manliest



## jani

So who is the manliest movie/video game character you know?
THE ULTIMATE APLHA MALE?!?!?


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## Art Rock

View attachment 17513


j/k... but I love that movie.


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## ptr

Video/Computer Games are completely devoid of manliness! 

For movie's I'd nominate "*M*" in Aki Kaurismäki's "The Man Without a Past", Markku Peltola is as manly as anyone could ever get!









juuri näin! / ptr


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## Crudblud

Define "manly."


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## Guest

Crudblud said:


> Define "manly."


Jeez Crudblud (and hello by the way), do you really need us to spell it out or demonstrate it in another way? Would you like a *Gilbert Shelton* drawing by way of response?


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## BlazeGlory

I'd go either with Russell Crowe in "Gladiator" or Pee-Wee Herman in "Pee-Wee's Playhouse."


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## jani

Crudblud said:


> Define "manly."


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## Guest

To answer the OP (and deflect Crudblud's rancour), I do remember being told by one of my teachers (centuries ago) that Vivaldi is extremely virile and needs to be played so. I know the moves.


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## Ravndal

Jason Statham, Iain Glenn, jerome flynn.


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## Crudblud

jani said:


>


As I suspected, you have confused "man" with "chest-beating thug."


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## schuberkovich

Zangief!11


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## jani

Crudblud said:


> As I suspected, you have confused "man" with "chest-beating thug."


"manliest movie/video game character"
"THE ULTIMATE APLHA MALE?!?!?"

This thread isn't very serious, those lines give the " Not so serious" vibe.


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## Guest

How to define "manly". I'm going to risk a ban here, but I remember a Gilbert Shelton-inspired cartoon that depicted an older conservative guy walking (with his wife and kids) behind a hippie couple where the male hippie's hair was as long as his girlfriend's. The conservative older fart sniggered to his wife and kids (and within earshot of the hippies), saying "_Hey, is the taller one a guy or a girl?_". 
The male hippie turned around and said : "Why don't you **** my **** and find out for yourself?"
If the asterisks are problematic, they indicate a particular act of human sexual intercourse.


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## Ingélou

Yes, Russell Crowe in 'Gladiator' as far as modern films go. 

But there is a problem with 'manly'. Is it just anatomical? The Victorians thought being manly meant that you were secure enough in yourself to be tender & protective with women, for example; having a male friend who was closer to you than your wife was also manly (to them). 
Personally, I like the 'quiet strength' side of manliness. The Gladiator has that as well as macho qualities so I'd choose him over Rambo any day.


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## Manxfeeder

Ingenue said:


> But there is a problem with 'manly'. Is it just anatomical? The Victorians thought being manly meant that you were secure enough in yourself to be tender & protective with women, for example.


Woo hoo! Then I'm a stud! Anybody have a time machine I could borrow?


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## presto

Bill Biceps is The Man!


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## cwarchc

The late, great Ollie Reed


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## jani




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## Guest

Crudblud said:


> Define "manly."


I'll give it a go. Firstly, 'manly' means to me having the right 'equipment'. If you ain't got it/them, you ain't a man. So far so good.
Next, 'manly' means knowing how / when to use the 'equipment' at the appropriate times. 'Manly' is also about a mindset that goes beyond the 'equipment', for example giving a grunt of satisfaction in a correctly (and emphatically) rendered perfect cadence without any fancy dissonances.


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## moody

No,No,No----I am the manliest of them all.


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## violadude

...........................


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## drpraetorus

Manly men from an earlier time:
Rhett Butler







The Ringo Kid







Robin Hood







Sam Spade







Daffy Duck (My personal fav)


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## PetrB

jani said:


>


Like, five foot five or so, afraid of his own shadow without a bodyguard around. You've GOT to be kidding. Wuss.


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## PetrB

moody said:


> No,No,No----I am the manliest of them all.


C'mon, 'neath all that armour, you're just a girly girl.


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## PetrB

presto said:


> Bill Biceps is The Man!


Even an idiot can pump up :-/


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## moody

PetrB said:


> C'mon, 'neath all that armour, you're just a girly girl.


Unmasked at last !!!


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## Crudblud

PetrB said:


> Even an idiot can pump up :-/


And many of them do.


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## Kopachris

Obviously.


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## Ingélou

I had to 'like' Picard out of loyalty, but it got me thinking which of the Star Trek characters I'd regard as 'manly'. It certainly wouldn't be those who fancied themselves as ladies' men, like Will Reicher. As far as 'quiet strength' goes, I like Dr McCoy (who always shows he likes the ladies) - Miles O'Brien - and from Voyager, Tuvok. Though it would be a bit tough having to wait for seven years...


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## jani

Kopachris said:


> Obviously.


Is that Spock?


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## PetrB

Kopachris said:


> Obviously.


Can't be. He's British


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## Ingélou

I've just realised who my 'manliest of the manly' is - combining good looks, virility, wit, intelligence & sensitivity...









Yes - it's Colin Firth as Mr Darcy; my favourite male character from my favourite novel by my favourite author! *

(* The swim, of course, was added by Andrew Davies for the BBC Adaptation. Good call!  )


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## PetrB

Rock Hudson ~~~~Football player David Williams (middle) ~~~Jean Marais

Uhhh.. wait a minute here...


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## PetrB

Keith Richards. _(No, he is not gay, he's just British.)_


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## Ukko

PetrB said:


> View attachment 17595
> View attachment 17596
> View attachment 17597
> 
> Rock Hudson ~~~~Football player David Williams (middle) ~~~Jean Marais
> 
> Uhhh.. wait a minute here...


Rock Hudson was a better actor than we knew.


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## Lunasong

Sorry, not a imaginary character, but a real man (and a musician).
http://www.necn.com/05/06/13/Vt-fac...e-am/landing.html?blockID=840143&feedID=11106
I saw this story this AM and that was my first thought...a real man.


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## Manxfeeder

Ingenue said:


> I've just realised who my 'manliest of the manly' is - combining good looks, virility, wit, intelligence & sensitivity...
> 
> Yes - it's Colin Firth as Mr Darcy; my favourite male character from my favourite novel by my favourite author! *)


I know a lot of women who would agree with you.


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## BlazeGlory

Linda Hunt (Billy Kwan) in "The Year Of Living Dangerously."


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## clavichorder

jani said:


> So who is the manliest movie/video game character you know?
> THE ULTIMATE APLHA MALE?!?!?


Michael Jordan is a true alpha. Heart of gold athlete.


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## clavichorder

jani said:


> Is that Spock?


No, but Spock is manly as **** in his mind. Because he has that Vulcan aspergers.


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## PetrB

clavichorder said:


> No, but Spock is manly as **** in his mind. Because he has that Vulcan aspergers.


_"Vulcan Asperger's Syndrome." *Brilliant and ROFLMAO.*_ _You should trademark that!_


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## PetrB

The Village People







...an earlier _*man*_ifestation of the 'boy band.' Lol.
(I think this little now historical nugget falls under the category of "High Camp.")


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## jani

clavichorder said:


> Michael Jordan is a true alpha. Heart of gold athlete.


Nah, this guy must be the ultimate Alpha male because he has saved the world more than once and women can't resist him!


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## moody

clavichorder said:


> No, but Spock is manly as **** in his mind. Because he has that Vulcan aspergers.


Which Startreck have you been watching??


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## PetrB

presto said:


> Bill Biceps is The Man!


Mr.Biceps Mr. Biceps


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## clavichorder

moody said:


> Which Startreck have you been watching??


I haven't been watching it lately actually...


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## PetrB

clavichorder said:


> I haven't been watching it lately actually...


That is right: it is because you are no longer twelve years of age. <g>


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## PetrB

now it seems these self-replicate! Duped, again.


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## drpraetorus

Some mid century manly men
Sean Connery







Steve McQueen







Marlon Brando







Tony Curtis







Kirk Douglas







AND.....


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## drpraetorus

Yosemite Sam







Only one looks as good now as he did 60 years ago.


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## PetrB

drpraetorus said:


> Yosemite Sam
> View attachment 17664
> 
> Only one looks as good now as he did 60 years ago.


_*Great Call!*_great call


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## DavidA

jani said:


>


My father was a commando during WW2 and saw an awful lot of action in some of the famous raids. I often wonder how he got out alive. He always despised people like John Wayne and Stallone. As he said: "The guys who were real heroes were not like that. They were ordinary guys who did their bit."


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## jani

DavidA said:


> My father was a commando during WW2 and saw an awful lot of action in some of the famous raids. I often wonder how he got out alive. He always despised people like John Wayne and Stallone. As he said: "The guys who were real heroes were not like that. They were ordinary guys who did their bit."


I never meant that these movie characters are heroes or anything like that, this was supposed to be a *silly* thread.


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## SiegendesLicht

DavidA said:


> My father was a commando during WW2


May I ask on which front? Just out of curiosity.


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> My father was a commando during WW2 and saw an awful lot of action in some of the famous raids. I often wonder how he got out alive. He always despised people like John Wayne and Stallone. As he said: "The guys who were real heroes were not like that. They were ordinary guys who did their bit."


?? Wayne and Stallone just _acted_ in heroic/'manly' parts. Do you think your dad was commenting on the roles, maybe?


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## moody

clavichorder said:


> I haven't been watching it lately actually...


Well the guy in the photo is Capt.Jean-Luc Picard from a much later version.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> That is right: it is because you are no longer twelve years of age. <g>


Cheek, I love them all and I've been watching Doctor Who since it started in the 60's.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> My father was a commando during WW2 and saw an awful lot of action in some of the famous raids. I often wonder how he got out alive. He always despised people like John Wayne and Stallone. As he said: "The guys who were real heroes were not like that. They were ordinary guys who did their bit."


Don't forget that Errol Flynn and the US Army won the war in Burma.


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## Taggart

moody said:


> Don't forget that Errol Flynn and the US Army won the war in Burma.


And in Europe, and in Russia and ... just about anywhere they thought they could claim to have won.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> Don't forget that Errol Flynn and the US Army won the war in Burma.




And now shall we segue to the antics of Montgomery and Patton in Sicily and Italy?

To get back on track... has anyone mentioned the Hulk?


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## DavidA

SiegendesLicht said:


> May I ask on which front? Just out of curiosity.


He was with the eighth army in Norway, at Dieppe, the Middle East and the Italian campaign.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> Don't forget that Errol Flynn and the US Army won the war in Burma.


Error Flynn - another draft dodger along with John Wayne my father despised. These guys were great heroes - on the screen!


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## SiegendesLicht

To the whole issue of parents in WW2: my grandfather fought on the Eastern front and even spent a few weeks in German captivity, from which he and his three buddies made a successful escape - only to face the threat of landing in a Russian labor camp (most likely someplace in Siberia) - for the sheer fact of surviving. A Soviet soldier was not supposed to ever be captured, if there was no other way out, he was supposed to commit suicide, taking as many of the enemy with him as possible. Anyone who had been captured, was automatically counted to collaborators and traitors. Well, this fact made my grandfather realize that, if his beloved fatherland was treating him no differently than the nazies had, it was not worth shedding his blood for. Somehow he managed to stay out of labor camp and avoid being drafted back until the end of the war - a fact to which I probably owe my existence. Just a little family story.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Error Flynn - another draft dodger along with John Wayne my father despised. These guys were great heroes - on the screen!


As it happens Flynn had apparently tried to join every branch of the services. But he had an enlarged heart with a murmer and had already suffered a heart attack.he had lingering chronic TB and various venereal diseases.
No excuse for Big John Wayne though especially when you compare the excellent records of Douglas Fairbanks Jr and James Stewart. These last two both qualify for this thread.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> As it happens Flynn had apparently tried to join every branch of the services. But he had an enlarged heart with a murmer and had already suffered a heart attack.he had lingering chronic TB and various venereal diseases.
> No excuse for Big John Wayne though especially when you compare the excellent records of Douglas Fairbanks Jr and James Stewart. These last two both qualify for this thread.


Yes, you are right. Apparently Flynn was so wasted with his hedonistic living he couldn't even manage the lowest health qualification.
Apparently: This created a public image problem for both Flynn and Warner Brothers. Flynn was often criticised for his failure to enlist while continuing to play war heroes in films. The studios' failure to counter the criticism was due to a desire to hide the state of Flynn's health.
Obviously the studios coverup worked as far as my parents were concerned. They just saw him as a draft dodger.

It is interesting that John Wayne later became associated with all that was good in America. They even named the schools after him despite the fact his own education was pretty basic. A horribly shallow image of a hero!


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> It is interesting that John Wayne later became associated with all that was good in America. They even named the schools after him despite the fact his own education was pretty basic. A horribly shallow image of a hero!


Practically speaking, there were two John Waynes; the man, who is of no interest to me, and the actor-in-manly-roles. A large segment of the public managed to conflate the former with the latter. You may be conflating in the reverse direction, eh?


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> Practically speaking, there were two John Waynes; the man, who is of no interest to me, and the actor-in-manly-roles. A large segment of the public managed to conflate the former with the latter. You may be conflating in the reverse direction, eh?


Not at all. Just telling the facts as they were. Wayne never actually DID anything heroic. Just played it on screen.


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> Not at all. Just telling the facts as they were. Wayne never actually DID anything heroic. Just played it on screen.


 I see your 'not at all' and raise two 'reverse conflations'. You are saying that the roles were not heroic because Wayne was not a hero. In doing so, you are ignoring the whole _support our troops and the war effort_ justification for the movies.


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## BlazeGlory

Well, I guess "The Greatest", "The People's Champion", The Louisville Lip" Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) cannot be considered to be the mannliest of the manliest. He converted to Islam and refused to be conscripted into the U.S. military based on his religious beliefs.

Which brings to mind Elvis Presley. He was drafted and served his country so I'm going to nominate him.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> I see your 'not at all' and raise two 'reverse conflations'. You are saying that the roles were not heroic because Wayne was not a hero. In doing so, you are ignoring the whole _support our troops and the war effort_ justification for the movies.


You have it all wrong. The roles he played were so heroic that people thought he was like that. In real life he never did anything heroic, I ignore the movies because Wayne making a movie on a Hollywood set was somewhat removed from my dad nearly getting his brains blown out by a sniper.


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## cwarchc

SiegendesLicht said:


> To the whole issue of parents in WW2: my grandfather fought on the Eastern front and even spent a few weeks in German captivity, from which he and his three buddies made a successful escape - only to face the threat of landing in a Russian labor camp (most likely someplace in Siberia) - for the sheer fact of surviving. A Soviet soldier was not supposed to ever be captured, if there was no other way out, he was supposed to commit suicide, taking as many of the enemy with him as possible. Anyone who had been captured, was automatically counted to collaborators and traitors. Well, this fact made my grandfather realize that, if his beloved fatherland was treating him no differently than the nazies had, it was not worth shedding his blood for. Somehow he managed to stay out of labor camp and avoid being drafted back until the end of the war - a fact to which I probably owe my existence. Just a little family story.


My father was a Pole who survived the National Socialist as well. He would have had the same fate, but chose to come to the UK. Hence my heritage. It's become a challenge to research my family history. I have to admit to have stalled.
My lack of Polish as a language, has proved a massive stumbling block


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> You have it all wrong. The roles he played were so heroic that people thought he was like that. In real life he never did anything heroic, I ignore the movies because Wayne making a movie on a Hollywood set was somewhat removed from my dad nearly getting his brains blown out by a sniper.


Things are always more complicated. From Wiki:

Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment). He repeatedly wrote to John Ford, asking to be placed in Ford's military unit, but consistently postponed it until "after he finished one more film". Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him; Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.

Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944. By many accounts, Wayne's failure to serve in the military was the most painful experience of his life. His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home."


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## clavichorder

moody said:


> Well the guy in the photo is Capt.Jean-Luc Picard from a much later version.


I knew that actually. I was just making an irrelevant comment about Spock. You can quiz me on some general trek questions if I have to prove it.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> I see your 'not at all' and raise two 'reverse conflations'. You are saying that the roles were not heroic because Wayne was not a hero. In doing so, you are ignoring the whole _support our troops and the war effort_ justification for the movies.


You are completely missing the point of what I am saying. Wayne never did anything heroic in real life. Movies are fiction. The bullets were not real.


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> Things are always more complicated. From Wiki:
> 
> Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment). He repeatedly wrote to John Ford, asking to be placed in Ford's military unit, but consistently postponed it until "after he finished one more film". Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him; Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.
> 
> Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944. By many accounts, Wayne's failure to serve in the military was the most painful experience of his life. His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home."


Well for whatever reasons, Wayne never served in the military. He was not what he appeared. There is also a point of view that he dodged the draft which has been voiced over here on more than one YVONNE and radio program.


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> There is also a point of view that he dodged the draft which has been voiced over here on more than one YVONNE and radio program.


I'm sure that lots of people says lots of things. He was technically overage and 3-A. Some specifics would be welcome.


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> I'm sure that lots of people says lots of things. He was technically overage and 3-A. Some specifics would be welcome.


Okay here is the specifics: John Wayne played a lot of heroes in the movies, shot a load of guns in the movies presumedly with blank bullets, but never ever in real life did he enlist in the military. His only heroic actions were on the screen. He never did anything heroic in real life.


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## PetrB

DavidA said:


> Well for whatever reasons, Wayne never served in the military. He was not what he appeared. There is also a point of view that he dodged the draft which has been voiced over here on more than one YVONNE and radio program.


You've missed the point that many put much, freely and voluntarily, into the war effort who were not in the war. This thread has drifted far from a light 'manly men' to a series of self-centered entries taking column space about one person's parent or grandparent.


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## PetrB

Max von Sydow


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## PetrB

Conrad Viedt


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## Ingélou

Taggart said:


> And in Europe, and in Russia and ... just about anywhere they thought they could claim to have won.


Didn't Errol Flynn & a bunch of Americans also win the war in Sherwood Forest against the Sheriff of Nottingham? 

But yes, we have drifted. I was brought up on black & white films. I think my favourite 'manly' Hollywood idols are James Stewart and Gary Cooper (especially in 'High Noon'). Old Westerns on British TV on a Saturday night - what can beat them!


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> His only heroic actions were on the screen. He never did anything heroic in real life.


Neither have I. Have you?


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## Ukko

Ignoring the silly segue from 'manly' to 'heroic', I wonder what _DavidA_'s dad thought of Joe Louis; lots of possibilities there...


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## clavichorder

Never mind then...


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> Neither have I. Have you?


But I am not regarded as a hero. Are you?


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> But I am not regarded as a hero. Are you?


Is John Wayne regarded as a "hero"? Not that I know of. He was a movie actor, as most people recognize. And no, I'm not regarded as a "hero" except to my kids (and that's a big maybe).


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> Is John Wayne regarded as a "hero"? Not that I know of. He was a movie actor, as most people recognize. And no, I'm not regarded as a "hero" except to my kids (and that's a big maybe).


Read film critic Barry Norman's assessment of John Wayne in his autobiography 'And why not?'


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## moody

Ingenue said:


> Didn't Errol Flynn & a bunch of Americans also win the war in Sherwood Forest against the Sheriff of Nottingham?
> 
> But yes, we have drifted. I was brought up on black & white films. I think my favourite 'manly' Hollywood idols are James Stewart and Gary Cooper (especially in 'High Noon'). Old Westerns on British TV on a Saturday night - what can beat them!


No,Errol Flynn was Tasmanian and all the main actors in this film were British.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> You've missed the point that many put much, freely and voluntarily, into the war effort who were not in the war. This thread has drifted far from a light 'manly men' to a series of self-centered entries taking column space about one person's parent or grandparent.


I don't think it really matters that much whether it drifts or founders ---do you ?


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## Ingélou

moody said:


> No,Errol Flynn was Tasmanian and all the main actors in this film were British.


Technically, since the film is 1938. But 4 years later Flynn became a naturalised American citizen so we see where his heart lies. And Olivia de Havilland (Maid Marian) was born British but moved to America at the age of 3. 
So okay, point ceded.

Next time I really must do more research before I make a joke.


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## PetrB

moody said:


> I don't think it really matters that much whether it drifts or founders ---do you ?


No, but boredom is one kind of sin, being the source of boredom... well, let's leave that judgement to the deities


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## Ingélou

Historical manly man - Prince Rupert of the Rhine, Royalist commander in the English Civil War. 'Wrong but Wromantic', as it's put in '1066 & All That'.

Cor!!!! 









PS - And a dog-lover too!

PPS - explanation for presto (see below). Prince Rupert was the bravest of the brave. Note the flared nostrils, cool eyes, full mouth, long hair to run your fingers through. Seriously sexy!


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## presto

You've got to have big arms and forearms to be manly............and a hairy chest!:lol:


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## Ingélou

presto said:


> You've got to have big arms and forearms to be manly............and a hairy chest!:lol:


That's a man's idea of 'manly'!


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## jani

Ingenue said:


> That's a man's idea of 'manly'!


Because the our society has changed a lot an alpha male today is very different than an alpha male during the first years of mankind, middle ages etc...
Today the more socially fit males get way more from life than physically fit.

I think that today these are some alpha male characteristics.
1. Confidence
2. Being able to connect with people
3. Being able to be the social ambassador of the group.
4. Smile ( yea that's right, loads of men are afraid to smile because it makes them look silly etc...)
5. Being well groomed


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## presto

jani said:


> Because the our society has changed a lot an alpha male today is very different than an alpha male during the first years of mankind, middle ages etc...
> Today the more socially fit males get way more from life than physically fit.
> 
> I think that today these are some alpha male characteristics.
> 1. Confidence
> 2. Being able to connect with people
> 3. Being able to be the social ambassador of the group.
> 4. Smile ( yea that's right, loads of men are afraid to smile because it makes them look silly etc...)
> 5. Being well groomed


Not necessarily so, being manly is more a physical thing, you're talking about a guys character or personality……quite different!


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## jani

presto said:


> Not necessarily so, *being manly is more a physical thing*, you're talking about a guys character or personality……quite different!


I have to disagree with you on that one, i think that being manly is more mental than physical because you can always change your mental attitude about the world and how you handle problems ( aka man up) but every man can't have huge wide shoulders no matter how much they they train.

There are two main body types for men

1. The swimmers build
Aka Tall&slender build
Johnny Depp for example has a swimmers build ( I have swimmers build myself too and so do loads of other men).








2. The power lifters build
( Broad-shouldered build that tapers down to the waist)
Arnold Scwarzenegger has a power lifters build for example.


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## deggial

jani said:


> There are two main body types for men


you forgot the Danny Devito build


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## Ingélou

My list for manliness:
1. (inner) strength - someone who can protect, stand up for themselves, not be a pushover
2. bravery
3. chivalry (to animals & children as well as females)
4. looks (no way round it) - broad shoulders & swimmer's build both acceptable! Danny Devito - not. 
5. not girly in clothes, facial features, or habits - though not too macho either
6. secure in themselves - eg quietly put aside gibes without needing to flare up
7. just a soupçon of remoteness so can't be taken for granted

(Moll's Magnificent Seven!  )


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## clavichorder

Jani you should get your PHD in manliness. 

And your master's in masculinity.


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## clavichorder

There is a question which I am turning over in my mind somewhat. Is a good sense of humor a trait of masculinity, or just a trait of being a likable human being?

I would assume a masculine person would have a very good sense of timing with their humor, know how to make many people laugh with one simple thing. And also avoid being an attention hound about it, and take very little external credit for it(internal too probably, seeing that they just don't care that much).

And there is the question of superficial masculinity, vs. masculinity which runs deep. Masculinity of the mind, heart, and the overall physical constitution independent of bulk and muscles.

Masculine posters on talkclassical don't edit their posts five times? And also don't repeat points already made... 

I'm just not man enough...


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## clavichorder

This is amusing.


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## Ingélou

clavichorder said:


> Masculine posters on talkclassical don't edit their posts five times? And also don't repeat points already made...
> I'm just not man enough...


Join the Club! I edit as often as I'm allowed - corrections, postscripts, jokes I've just thought of. But I never thought of it as being feminine - or masculine - just human. So you ARE man enough, clavichorder!

Your point about a sense of humour. Again, it's a human, not a gendered, thing. 
But a bloke *without* a sense of humour certainly wouldn't be 'manly'. He'd be a Big Girl's Blouse.


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## Taggart

presto said:


> You've got to have big arms and forearms to be manly............and a hairy chest!:lol:


Sounds a bit like Lord Flashheart from Blackadder. I'd post a clip but ... I'm too much of a gentleman to do that.


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## jani

clavichorder said:


> Jani you should get your PHD in manliness.
> 
> And your master's in masculinity.


Lately i have been getting into self development listening to motivational speakers etc...
Now i am trying to make myself the best verison of myself which means, getting better mentally ( controlling my nevers, controlling my emotions, being more confident, becoming more outgoing etc... Smarter etc.,..) and physically ( Looking the best i can, getting in shape, being well groomed etc..)

So i have being reading a lot about this subject etc...


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## clavichorder

You sound like my brother, just a little bit.


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## PetrB

jani said:


>


So you're talking contemporary and paleolithic then?


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## PetrB

Women who make barbie dolls of themselves, men who pump up to unseemly proportions are the antithesis of what I think of as a real man or woman.

Being truly adult, comfortable within the gender they are in and not having felt any need of bowing to any pressures to adopt the more conventional and overt cartoon-like templates of gender-typing is what, to me, makes a real man or woman -- people completely comfortable and assured within themselves.

Anything else seems to me some sort of silly parody.

[[ Edit ADD: "Be yourself. Everyone else is taken." ~ Oscar Wilde ]]


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## clavichorder

Sometimes solid people aren't so assured of themselves too though...


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## PetrB

clavichorder said:


> Sometimes solid people aren't so assured of themselves too though...


Assured does not equate with Certain All The Time.
Certain All The Time is almost always attributed to some non-desirable personalty disorder; it is worrying and odd if anyone is that consistently even 

Assured allows for being uncertain, I think. Like finding your own voice, it usually comes to you unconsciously, by and while going about your business as best possible. The more wins as well as making it through things that don't go right -- which you've nonetheless handled, makes for a kind of "assured."


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## jani

I rather be the best version of myself than myself, because being curious about things and getting easly excited about things has always been part of my personality so i don't see anything fake or something like that in trying to become more mentally&physically fit.

Also i am not planning to be the next Arnold, i want little muscle and healthier body ( I am healthy atm but you can never be too healthy.)


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## Ingélou

This is good advice. Be yourself, but aim to improve the product. 
And whatever stage of life you are in, enjoy it, and don't try to pretend you are younger or older than you are.
At every stage of life, you can possess or acquire beauty, charm, grace & humour; at every stage of life you can enjoy love, romance & adventure, and you can learn, and appreciate the arts.

Still, it's fun discussing what is 'manly', & much less controversial than what is 'feminine'...


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## Crudblud

I don't think that improvement as dictated by someone else is improvement of oneself so much as it is the adoption of the traits of the dictator.


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## Ingélou

Crudblud said:


> I don't think that improvement as dictated by someone else is improvement of oneself so much as it is the adoption of the traits of the dictator.


If the 'someone else' was a Svengali, yes. But if a person wants improvement in a certain direction & chooses to follow the advice of someone else who seems to have the desired quality - they might then go along with a course of action they didn't immediately see the point of, but take on trust because .... oh, fiddlesticks, this is dancing off into the quagmire ...

Add another trait to 'manliness' - not too wordy!


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## BlazeGlory

Ingenue said:


> Add another trait to 'manliness' - not too wordy!


Is intelligent enough to know not to wear his underpants on the outside.:cheers:

Unless he's a Super Hero.


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## Ukko

BlazeGlory said:


> Is intelligent enough to know not to wear his underpants on the outside.:cheers:


Defeats their purpose. According to Kramer, they shouldn't be worn at all.


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## moody

Ingenue said:


> This is good advice. Be yourself, but aim to improve the product.
> And whatever stage of life you are in, enjoy it, and don't try to pretend you are younger or older than you are.
> At every stage of life, you can possess or acquire beauty, charm, grace & humour; at every stage of life you can enjoy love, romance & adventure, and you can learn, and appreciate the arts.
> 
> Still, it's fun discussing what is 'manly', & much less controversial than what is 'feminine'...


Were you once an agony aunt perchance?


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## BlazeGlory

Ingenue said:


> This is good advice. Be yourself, but aim to improve the product.
> And whatever stage of life you are in, enjoy it, and don't try to pretend you are younger or older than you are.
> At every stage of life, you can possess or acquire beauty, charm, grace & humour; at every stage of life you can enjoy love, romance & adventure, and you can learn, and appreciate the arts...


Good Advise - Pick a or b

a) Be yourself, but aim to improve the product.
b) Pretend to be someone you are not; never try to improve .

a) And whatever stage of life you are in, enjoy it, and don't try to pretend you are younger or older than you are.
b) Find no joy in your life whatever stage you are in; pretend to be younger or older than you are.

a) At every stage of life, you can possess or acquire beauty, charm, grace & humour; at every stage of life you can enjoy love, romance & adventure, and you can learn, and appreciate the arts..

b) At every stage of life, you will be unable to possess or acquire beauty, charm, grace or humour; at every stage of life you will be unable to enjoy love, romance & adventure, and you will be unable to learn and appreciate the arts.


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## Ukko

There appears to be a 'stage of life' wherein most of the body ages chronologically, but the brain is 'of two minds'.


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## Vaneyes

The late great *Andy Kaufman*.


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## Ingélou

Aaaaaggggghhhhh!!!!!


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## jani

We can't also forget these manly men!


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## jani

And finally but not least Mr. o'brien


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## Ingélou

Sir Thomas Fairfax, another 17th century manly man; a commander on the Parliamentarian side in the English Civil War, but a gentleman. After the battle of Marston Moor, he clamped down on his victorious army & saved York. His wife was the mysterious veiled woman who protested at the trial of Charles I.


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## cwarchc

How about a different approach?


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## jani

cwarchc said:


> How about a different approach?
> 
> View attachment 18327


Well he definitely had the Courage&willpower of a manly man.


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## Ingélou

Interesting point but I'm not really convinced. It's not the way you'd normally use the word, though I do think he had the traditional manly values of bravery & resolution.

I prefer him to John Wayne, though.


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## Ukko

Hmm. Has anyone else noticed that most or all of the _thread-approved_ 'manly' attributes are applicable to admirable women?


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## drpraetorus

you mean beards?


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## drpraetorus

Manly Men


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## drpraetorus




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## Ingélou

Real men wear kilts? I so agree!









Taggart at a Scottish Dance Summer School, about 30 years ago.


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## SiegendesLicht

Great pic! Makes me wish I could supply one of my man in _Lederhosen_. I will do something about it...


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## moody

More damned Scots---is there no escape ?


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## drpraetorus

It's interesting that under Henry the VII, Wales conquered England, yet it was England that ruled. Under James I, Scotland conquered England, yet England ruled. What's the deal with the English?


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## Taggart

drpraetorus said:


> It's interesting that under Henry the VII, Wales conquered England, yet it was England that ruled. Under James I, Scotland conquered England, yet England ruled. What's the deal with the English?


England rules OK


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## Taggart

moody said:


> More damned Scots---is there no escape ?


Why would you want to escape from members of the most cultured nation in Europe? Look at our dancing, our bagpipe music, our haggis - what is there not to enjoy? :angel:


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## Ingélou

drpraetorus said:


> It's interesting that under Henry the VII, Wales conquered England, yet it was England that ruled. Under James I, Scotland conquered England, yet England ruled. What's the deal with the English?


Scotland did not conquer England - the Scottish King James VI was the legitimate heir to the throne of England, so he became James VI & I, ruled both countries & naturally went to live in the richer, more populous one.

Wales did not conquer England; Henry Tudor had some Welsh descent & also a tenuous blood claim to the English throne; he got the support of disaffected English nobles who didn't like the Yorkist usurper Richard III, and defeated him in battle. Part of the English nobility & their supporters vanquished another part & their supporters. Wales had already been conquered by England & didn't have any choice in the matter. 'For Wales, see England' as the old Encyclopaedia Britannica once famously put it!

So there's no mystery. The deal with the English was that they lived in a bigger, richer, more populous land with more opportunities, so if anyone had the choice of living in England rather than a poorer neighbour, they chose England.


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## Taggart

Dr Johnson agreed: "The noblest prospect which a Scotman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England."

Why are people so hard on the Scots?

Johnson also said: "Scotland is a vile country, though God made it, but we must remember that he made it for Scotsmen, and comparisons are odious, but God also made Hell."

Even the Scots join in - Billy Connolly; "The great thing about Glasgow now is that if there is a nuclear attack it'll look exactly the same afterwards."


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## Ingélou

Why are people so hard on the Scots? Because it's hard to take anyone who wears a *sporran* seriously; plus it's fun trying to make a Scotsman's face turn purple as the heather.


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## jani

He starts to dominate the broadcast, his frame controll is very strong& his presence is very strong and i would say that both of those qualities are qualities of an "Alpha male"


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## Ingélou

He's nice looking but he is too attention-seeking to have the 'manly strength' that I personally admire!


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## PetrB

Taggart said:


> Why would you want to escape from members of the most cultured nation in Europe? Look at our dancing, our bagpipe music, our haggis - what is there not to enjoy? :angel:


Britain is neither European nor continental: that is part of its weird and primitive charm! 
You know -- it is documented -- that very funny and peculiar things happen to a people who live and breed on an Island for a millenium and longer


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## Ingélou

And Norfolk has its own reputation. A journalist got into trouble big time by suggesting that people who live here often have six fingers on one hand ! 'NFN' or 'Normal for Norfolk' is a saying about the locals made up by outsiders.


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## Taggart

PetrB said:


> Britain is neither European nor continental: that is part of its weird and primitive charm!
> You know -- it is documented -- that very funny and peculiar things happen to a people who live and breed on an Island for a millenium and longer


Yup. There's a place round here called Cobholm which has that reputation as does Fittie Dee in Aberdeen - both island communities.


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## Cheyenne

Can't go wrong with Mr. Eastwood, can you?






"I only handle young, single girls."
"Yeah - me too."

:lol:


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## PetrB

The ideal soldier....


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## moody

drpraetorus said:


> It's interesting that under Henry the VII, Wales conquered England, yet it was England that ruled. Under James I, Scotland conquered England, yet England ruled. What's the deal with the English?


Your grasp of history is tenuous to say the least .
Wales did not conquer England,Richard 111 had seized the throne and Henry Tudor who happened to be born in Wales considered that he had a better claim. This was through his mother a descendant of Edward 111,he invaded through France and defeated Richard--his army was English,see The War of the Roses.
James V1 of Scotland was heir to the English throne through his mother who was Henry V111's eldest sister--he was invited to be king.
Taggart knows this very well and is just being mischievous--the Scots are good at that. The only Scot who had success against us was The Bruce who was a great man and the first knight of Christendom.

I see that Ingenue has already been into this--sorry for the duplication,although with his knowledge of what went on no doubt everything needs to be said twice.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> The ideal soldier....
> View attachment 19793


Thanks,it's nice to be appreciated by those who did not serve,but were saved.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> Britain is neither European nor continental: that is part of its weird and primitive charm!
> You know -- it is documented -- that very funny and peculiar things happen to a people who live and breed on an Island for a millenium and longer


What's the matter with you ?
The mixture of races that have always converged here is probably more across the ages than the US.
Are you anti British,don't tell me you are Chicago Irish,I feel not.
I am a mixture of German, Irish and English.
We are not primitive but highly civilised and certainly not European ,to many of us they are not our friends to say the least.We may well be leaving the European Union soon.
We have fought them since time immemorial--and still are as we stand alone!!
Have you actually been here,it doesn't sound like it.


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## Ingélou

I think I see what you mean, PetrB.


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## Stargazer

No contest. Definitely Kip.


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## jani

I know that i have suggested Arnold before but i think that he embodies many of the Alpha male chatacters in this video, like Iron will.


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## Pyotr

Ricardo Montalbán es más macho.


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## GreenMamba

Fernando Lamas es mas macho.


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## Taggart

Pyotr said:


> Ricardo Montalbán es más macho.


I much prefer him as Khan - and he aged well


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## jani

Taggart said:


> I much prefer him as Khan - and he aged well
> 
> View attachment 20524
> View attachment 20525


Who is this guy?


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## Ingélou

jani said:


> Who is this guy?


If this is a joke, sorry!

To answer the question, Ricardo Montalban played a 'villain' called Khan, a super-human, in the original series of Star Trek. He then reprised the role in a film, years later.

He looks a bit odd in the right hand picture, but was certainly very 'manly' in his prime.

Personally, I now think you are the manliest for braving all those cold showers!


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## Taggart

jani said:


> Who is this guy?


Ricardo Montalban.

Playing Khan Noonien Singh in a) Space Seed and b) Star Trek II :Wrath of Khan.

A sound working knowledge of the minutiae of Star Trek is generally seen as one of the characteristics of High Culture.


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## moody

Taggart said:


> Ricardo Montalban.
> 
> Playing Khan Noonien Singh in a) Space Seed and b) Star Trek II :Wrath of Khan.
> 
> A sound working knowledge of the minutiae of Star Trek is generally seen as one of the characteristics of High Culture.


Was he in the movie of "South Pacific"? Or was that Lamas ,or neither of them ?


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## Taggart

moody said:


> Was he in the movie of "South Pacific"? Or was that Lamas ,or neither of them ?


Neither of them AFAIK


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## Pyotr

jani said:


> Who is this guy?


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## GreenMamba

Montalban was the star of Fantasy Island, sort of a cross between the Love Boat and the Twilight Zone. Also, he was the premier champion of rich, Corinthian leather.


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## jani

I can't remember have i already nominated this charming sexy British secret agent.


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## millionrainbows

DavidA said:


> Well for whatever reasons, Wayne never served in the military. He was not what he appeared. There is also a point of view that he dodged the draft which has been voiced over here on more than one YVONNE and radio program.


You know that distinctive walk he had? That was due to extensive tissue damage down "there" from his exploits with "The Rifleman" star Chuck Connors.


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## KenOC

Manly? Another dimension to this. Tonight I'm going to watch the 1957 original of "12 Angry Men." Henry Fonda (in the movie anyway) epitomizes a lot of what I think of as "manly." It's not something you can see.


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## millionrainbows

I'm going to watch_ The D.I._ (1957, B&W) starring Jack Webb. By God, we'll make you a Marine if we have to kill you!


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## Ryan

I am Infracting myself for 48hrs as a result of my recent behaviour.

(Forum member personally nominated himself for Infraction and by no means was forced or subjected to this punishment by the forum admin.)


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## Pyotr

KenOC said:


> Manly? Another dimension to this. Tonight I'm going to watch the 1957 original of "12 Angry Men." Henry Fonda (in the movie anyway) epitomizes a lot of what I think of as "manly." It's not something you can see.


I'm not sure if a macho man would have kids like Peter and Jane.


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## Taggart

Pyotr said:


> I'm not sure if a macho man would have kids like Peter and Jane.


Maybe they reacted against all that macho stuff? Or maybe they just went bad. Who can say.

Reminds one of the old Jew who went into the synagogue to kvetch to The Lord about his son. He moaned that his son was a reall no-goodnik and was even thinking of becoming a Catholic. The Lord replied "Funny you should say that..."

Nobody can predict how their kids will turn out even if you do all the right things.


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## Vaneyes

Thomas Mann.

View attachment 20677


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## ricardo_jvc6

The Manliest Man of the world, it got to be the only... the powerful, starful..


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## jani

No wonder that women love him, look at that confident, fully relaxed body langauge, also his tone is so calm and stable.


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## Ralfy

How about Duke Nukem?


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