# dose spain and portugal had ars subtilior bold and complexe music of medieval lore?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Yes since im a fan of ars subtilior movement, i Wonder if spain and Portugal had something similar to composer like Solage, matheo de perugia, bortet, guido.

What is the uttermost interresting codex of spain and the one of Portugal any ''ancient avant-garde''.
Since spain and Portugal music was groovy and show complexity...

There for somesort of ars subtilior movement most have taken place in the Iberic peninsula?
What are the bold the bizzare , thee daring classical composer from these country...

Anything atonal or microtonal of sublime beauty, music so odd and etheric it should ain't existed, music too evolve for it's time, im look for classical composer of medieval era and to a lesser extend renaissance.I Wonder since codex chantilly ars subtilior was france and italy exclusively .

And my theory is a place like lisbon from medieval lore most have had intellectual a rich artistic scene whit a lot of composer , whit eclectic music since they were ahead of time in medieval and renaissance. Columbus discover america per se this is just one exemple how portuguese and spaniards were evovle artistically musically during medieval and renaissance era.

Unfortunetly i have only fews classical composer from spain next to zero portuguese except my compilation saint and siners featured fews(on naxos 10 cds box-set) than im looking for special composer of spain and Portugal sopisticated music for it's time that flabbergeist music expert even today stuff you can't says this classical composer was visited by marty mc fly(back to the future joke), but you probably understand what im saying...paradoxal music vol2 the classical composer of iberic peninsula that craft musical work that are out of this world adventureous, novator..

I want to hear something and think hmm is this really this era music like Gesualdo did to me, this
paradoxal find in his music just like Solage spark an interrested in me looking for anomaly in classical.
you know what im talking about you hear a classical composer and says hmm this guys music should not exist.

Anything similar to ars subtilior but in iberic peninsula please unlighted me, after countless Google search i did not find any very adventureous awfully and wonderfully wierd, i heard from spain Alphonso X el Sabio than about it for the notorious classical composer more bold and daring even if he ancient ars antiqua, kinda groovy for ars antiqua but not quite ars nova.

:tiphat: i ask spaniards knowledge and portuguese to help me out find obscur portuguese classical composer of these respective era medieval and renaissance almost forgotten and outstanding novator,
someone know what im looking for exactly i have perigrinatio cd whit obscur spagniard medieval composers even some tunisian classical composers this is an odd cd and on heck of a cd by the way.

But let keep to the subject dose spain or Portugal has what im looking for if you understand exactly what im looking for?

I should mention i dont speak portuguese nor spanish so please help me out TC someone most know something, what about who are the best secret in classical composer of these country or composer poppularity remain hermetic stay local isolated case.

Any good codex of classical composer of these country Worth mentionning?

I know my post are highly tedious and need some Advanced knowledge in classical i wont be able to find these codex or out of this world composers of spain and Portugal. Im asking you this because most classical composer from spain and Portugal were conservative they did ain't bend the rule break the rule and conscensus in music but made hell of music, but there is a ratio that i dont know in there music there ars nova and if they were any there ars subtilior?

So if someone can provide clue on what to get , if you know my taste by now,i put my trust in you(ian curtis joy division).


:tiphat:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Hmm, I don't know much about medieval music, but Spain and the Iberian peninsula was usually on top of the rest of Europe in those days and a little after. They did have moorish happenings, so that may have altered their early musical thought in a very different way. Are you familiar with any 16th century Spanish renaissance composers? Antonio de Cabezon, the blind organist was phenomenal.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Codex Las Huelgas has been recorded a few times. Llibre Vermeil de Montserrat. 

Duarte Lobo was Portuguese. Check out his Requiem a 6. But he's late Renaissance. 

You talk about ars subtilior, but also Gesualdo, so I'm not sure what time period you're thinking about.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> So if someone can provide clue on what to get , if you know my taste by now,i put my trust in you(ian curtis joy division).
> 
> :tiphat:


Try the Hilliard CD called Spain and The New World. I bet you will love it, it has your name all over it. And Gothic Voices did a CD which I've never heard called The Voice in the Garden - I may try to download it tomorrow.

In instrumental music, Arauxo is IMO the figure who really stands out, mystical music.


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## Rhombic (Oct 28, 2013)

Since Ars Subtilior was mainly developed in Occitania/Provençal area, it would be possible for there to be some similar style further west, especially near Catalonia, where the musical development was very close to that of Occitania (e.g. trobadors in Occitania were very similar to those in Catalonia, while somewhat more different to the trouvères up north).


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