# I Have Some Things to Say About Haydn



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Let me begin by saying I was not a fan of this fella, that is to say, until one of the threads on this forum kept on emphasizing him. A few people recommended specific symphonies. Now I tried to listen to this dude in the past many times, his music just never took. But upon recommendation I listened to Symphonies No. 44-47. I liked No.44 and thought the others were okay. But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on! This is the most non invasive music I have ever heard in my entire life... it seems to completely flow with my thought as opposed to disrupt my thought. I finally understand "why" people love the music of this great composer. I am grateful to all the people who kept on arguing for the quality of his music. I WAS WRONG ABOUT HAYDN. By the power of TC I have been converted.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Klassic said:


> Let me begin by saying I was not a fan of this fella, that is to say, until one of the threads on this forum kept on emphasizing him. A few people recommended specific symphonies. Now I tried to listen to this dude in the past many times, his music just never took. But upon recommendation I listened to Symphonies No. 44-47. I liked No.44 and thought the others were okay. But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on! This is the most non invasive music I have ever heard in my entire life... it seems to completely flow with my thought as opposed to disrupt my thought. I finally understand "why" people love the music of this great composer. I am grateful to all the people who kept on arguing for the quality of his music. I WAS WRONG ABOUT HAYDN. By the power of TC I have been converted.


All good things comes to those who wait :tiphat:


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Klassic said:


> But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on!


"Und doch, 's will halt nicht geh'n."


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

If I knew the mods would change my title I would have called this thread: *Explosion of Fireworks! I Hereby Speak of Haydn!* "I Have Some _things_ to Say About Haydn," just sounds like a crinkled old man that can barely get the phrase out from under his breath. No one wants to click on a thread with that title. And this thread is actually important because it might make a few other people reconsider Haydn.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Klassic said:


> If I knew the mods would change my title I would have called this thread: *Explosion of Fireworks! I Hereby Speak of Haydn!* "I Have Some _things_ to Say About Haydn," just sounds like a crinkled old man that can barely get the phrase out from under his breath. No one wants to click on a thread with that title. And this thread is actually important because it might make a few other people reconsider Haydn.


I did understand you completely don't worry .


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

I have a similar experience of not getting why Haydn was so great until I was about 18. I got my hands on a CD of Haydn Piano Trios and one in particular began my love affair with Haydn's music, Trio No. 44 in E (Hob. XV No. 28) and specifically the Allegretto which is wonderful (although I must admit I prefer the tempo a bit slower than most people play it). I found a full performance on youtube closest to the tempo I like (the allegretto starts around 6:56).


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

As far as the symphonies go, the Paris six and London twelve are required listening-every symphony a masterpiece.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I was lucky to fall in love with "The Clock", the whole Symphony, at age 9. It was on a CD with Mozart's "A musical joke" and Leopolds "Toy Symphony". I enjoyed them all, but found I liked the Haydn the best without question.

As for 44-47, all of these are good symphonies, though 45 is my favorite, and I really enjoy parts of 46 in B major. Among my top favorites from that period are 43 "Mercury" and 51, which I feel to have the best themes and most organic development, along with 45. I have a soft spot for 40 in F major as well and 16 in B flat, which was actually written just before 40 chronologically(order is tricky with Haydn, unless you have an updated list)


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Klassic said:


> Let me begin by saying I was not a fan of this fella, that is to say, until one of the threads on this forum kept on emphasizing him. A few people recommended specific symphonies. Now I tried to listen to this dude in the past many times, his music just never took. But upon recommendation I listened to Symphonies No. 44-47. I liked No.44 and thought the others were okay. But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on! This is the most non invasive music I have ever heard in my entire life... it seems to completely flow with my thought as opposed to disrupt my thought. I finally understand "why" people love the music of this great composer. I am grateful to all the people who kept on arguing for the quality of his music. I WAS WRONG ABOUT HAYDN. By the power of TC I have been converted.


Bravo!!! It takes a brave man(person) to admit they were wrong on something, especially on this ruthless :lol::devil: forum.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Here is a link to 16, which you might enjoy.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

And when you are ready, try these bad boys out: 




No, not Haydn, but essential listening for 18th century symphonies. The man to whom Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven are highly indebted.


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## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

I am glad you have made the breakthrough.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I've had this same breakthrough just recently. Beforehand I thought Haydn was boring, but now I like his work. It feels like I'm sailing along with the music


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

In the future when people ask me what I take with my tea, I'll say, "while Haydn of course!"


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

hpowders said:


> As far as the symphonies go, the Paris six and London twelve are required listening-every symphony a masterpiece.


Which numbers are these please hpowders?


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

82-87 - Paris
93-104 - London


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

"You have just taken your first step into a larger world"
Feel the power of the force growing within you as you explore more Haydn


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

bharbeke said:


> 82-87 - Paris
> 93-104 - London


And this skips over 88, arguably his very best Symphony depending on who you ask. In personal preference, it's no. 4 or 3 for me, give or take, along with 94, 101, and 104. There was a special level of inspiration for 88.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

Klassic said:


> Let me begin by saying I was not a fan of this fella, that is to say, until one of the threads on this forum kept on emphasizing him. A few people recommended specific symphonies. Now I tried to listen to this dude in the past many times, his music just never took. But upon recommendation I listened to Symphonies No. 44-47. I liked No.44 and thought the others were okay. But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on! This is the most non invasive music I have ever heard in my entire life... it seems to completely flow with my thought as opposed to disrupt my thought. I finally understand "why" people love the music of this great composer. I am grateful to all the people who kept on arguing for the quality of his music. I WAS WRONG ABOUT HAYDN. By the power of TC I have been converted.


I became a great fan of Haydn through hearing the 'Oxford' symphony and the 'London' symphonies are some of my favourite music. I think most people start off with Mozart and then think Haydn a more earth-bound cousin, but after a while it soon becomes evident that Haydn's genius is every bit as breath-taking than any other great composer. One of the problems is Haydn's sheer output; so much to discover and any set of the string quartets and piano trios is highly recommended, though I found an easier way in was to get a compilation of the most popular, as is the case with the piano sonatas.

It is interesting that many musicians love Haydn above many other composers and his music is far more complex than it appears. It's good to read Haydn has another fan and his music never fails to be uplifting.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I was just answering the question, not recommending my favorites.

My favorites at the moment are 86, 95, 96, 100, 103, 76, 63, and 51.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Haydn is one of the very greatest musical minds and it's always good to see people appreciate his music.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Take some time to explore the piano trios as already mentioned and the string quartets. 
My favourite in the String Quartets is the Op 33 and 76 sets


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Alydon said:


> It is interesting that many musicians love Haydn above many other composers and his music is far more complex than it appears.


I agree this is interesting. My impression of Haydn is that the genius of his music is very subtle and modest. He doesn't smack the listener in the face with it like Beethoven and Mahler. But don't get me wrong, I like a good smacking from genius!


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Right. People say Mozart concealed his art, but he didn't, the times have just changed so that what sounded exceptionally difficult to his contemporaries doesn't to us. Haydn on the other hand is the real deal, a sophisticated artist who sounded easy even in his own time.

Or rather, sort of. He sounded easy to the Germans. On the other hand, when he visited London, some Italian published a cartoon where Italian music was all sunshine and harps and bunnies, and German music (meaning guess-who) was a murky swamp full of frogs and wind instruments - and some English commentator (Burney?) tried to smooth things over by saying that, on the one hand, it was undeniable that the Germans had "run amok" with their winds, but on the other, the Italians might take some pointers from them so that their music wouldn't sound quite so much always the same.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Klassic said:


> Let me begin by saying I was not a fan of this fella, that is to say, until one of the threads on this forum kept on emphasizing him. A few people recommended specific symphonies. Now I tried to listen to this dude in the past many times, his music just never took. But upon recommendation I listened to Symphonies No. 44-47. I liked No.44 and thought the others were okay. But then a strange thing happened, I thought I would listen to a few more, so I did, but when I tried to turn the music off all I wanted to do was turn it back on! This is the most non invasive music I have ever heard in my entire life... it seems to completely flow with my thought as opposed to disrupt my thought. I finally understand "why" people love the music of this great composer. I am grateful to all the people who kept on arguing for the quality of his music. I WAS WRONG ABOUT HAYDN. By the power of TC I have been converted.


Haydn is amazing. Next - explore Haydn's humour. It's some of the most fun you can have listening to classical, imo . Check out the bassoon 'fart' in the 2nd movement of Symphony 93. And his best works are imo his last two Oratorios - The Creation and The Seasons. They are magnificent.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Check out the bassoon 'fart' in the 2nd movement of Symphony 93.


Rumor has it that the louder and more bombastic a composer's music is, the louder his farts. Apparently Beethoven was epic in this category. He may have filled many a concert hall with his symphonies, but it is said he cleared many rooms with his farts.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I recall an Emperor Leopold of Haydn's time, thought Haydn was good, but cheapened by country vulgarities and other string instrument gimmicks. He greatly prefered Kozeluch. Needless to say, Haydn was the superior architect with an inexhaustible imagination and will to improve. A contempory critic noted how on the surface Haydn might resemble his contemporaries, but could make entire pieces out of far less thematic material, with s certain eagle eye for form.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Haydn is a true giant in the history of western music. One may say that his music is less powerful/beautiful/stunning/attractive than that of Mozart or Beethoven. And of course, one can never get such epic and dynamic thing out from his symphonies as we get from those of Mahler's. The point is that we have to put him in the context of late 18 Century. 
Haydn made some basic genres of classical music a big leap forward, including symphony, string quartet, piano trio and piano sonata. Also, he is the man that jointly define with Mozart how Vienese classical style should be. The galant style of treating thematic materials, the idea of building and developing music from basic motives, and the way to give equal balance on different parts, make him a key mentor to composers of following generations, especially to Beethoven (his technique of develop motives is directly inherited from Haydn). His music is inspiring and very well designed.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Haydn is amazing. Next - explore Haydn's humour. It's some of the most fun you can have listening to classical, imo . *Check out the bassoon 'fart' in the 2nd movement of Symphony 93*. And his best works are imo his last two Oratorios - The Creation and The Seasons. They are magnificent.


Thanks - now I understand what I have been failing to hear in Haydn's music that you Haydn fans rave about.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Alydon said:


> I became a great fan of Haydn through hearing the 'Oxford' symphony and the 'London' symphonies are some of my favourite music. *I think most people start off with Mozart and then think Haydn a more earth-bound cousin, but after a while it soon becomes evident that Haydn's genius is every bit as breath-taking than any other great composer. *One of the problems is Haydn's sheer output; so much to discover and any set of the string quartets and piano trios is highly recommended, though I found an easier way in was to get a compilation of the most popular, as is the case with the piano sonatas.
> 
> It is interesting that many musicians love Haydn above many other composers and his music is far more complex than it appears. It's good to read Haydn has another fan and his music never fails to be uplifting.


Most people? That is most likely not true but I admire your enthusiasm and love for Haydn's music.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

The Creation, The Seasons and the Masses are all at the peak of his output, as is The Seven Last Words in its original orchestral version.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Wood said:


> The Creation, The Seasons and the Masses are all at the peak of his output, as is The Seven Last Words in its original orchestral version.


That's mainly the last 6 masses. But, please, there are the piano sonatas, most of them INTERESTING, JUST ASK ALFRED BRENDEL - the piano trios, oi weh, what great music, and the string quartets. Just about all of them. If you have most of Haydn in front of you then I envy you. It is such a beautiful journey.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I really like Haydn's music - the Creation is among my favourites. However, I never feel he quite matches Mozart's utterly sublime utterances. But then who does?


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Two recommendations for any current or prospective Haydn lover (both recent releases, both HIP and both of stunning quality):


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

I know they're not highly rated but you should listen to the Baryton Trios too, Mr. Klassic.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

DavidA said:


> I really like Haydn's music - the Creation is among my favourites. However, I never feel he quite matches Mozart's utterly sublime utterances. But then who does?


Mozart's delicate creativity will always remain unmatched, I agree. What I find fascinating about Haydn is how he bridges the late baroque to classical periods. Although he was early classical. I hear elements of both, and although distinctly different, both styles flow together as they seem to beautifully merge, especially in his symphonies.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Klassic said:


> If I knew the mods would change my title I would have called this thread: *Explosion of Fireworks! I Hereby Speak of Haydn!* "I Have Some _things_ to Say About Haydn," just sounds like a crinkled old man that can barely get the phrase out from under his breath. No one wants to click on a thread with that title. And this thread is actually important because it might make a few other people reconsider Haydn.


What was the original title?

*"Haydn is a God! - I CONFESS!"*?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Really, the minimum pre-requisite for stating ANYTHING about Haydn's music should be after a thorough acquaintance with:

1. Paris Symphonies

2. London Symphonies

3. The Creation

4. Six Late Masses


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

You might say he was 'Haydn in plain sight'.


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## Funny (Nov 30, 2013)

It also took me a few symphonies to get it - I had been captivated by the 2nd movement of the "Surprise" as a teenager and had heard a stray symphony here or there but only when I got a box set and started listening to a few symphonies consecutively did I get over the hump and grasp his basic vocabulary, which once you do, he says so much and in such an entertaining way. 

Also 44-47 is - luckily, perhaps - an exceptionally strong run of consecutively numbered symphonies. I've already made clear elsewhere on here that I think 46 is one of the great symphonies of all time, and then last movement of 44 and first of 45 really are somewhat like FIREWORKS! for me.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I really like Haydn's music - the Creation is among my favourites. However, I never feel he quite matches Mozart's utterly sublime utterances. But then who does?


Haydn was Mozart's superior in many respects, mainly string quartets, piano sonatas, and piano trios. Not trying to quarrel with anyone but I speak truth.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Fugue Meister said:


> Haydn was Mozart's superior in many respects, mainly string quartets, piano sonatas, and piano trios. Not trying to quarrel with anyone but I speak truth.


I don't agree on string quartets. Mozart wrote his string quartets for sophisticated listeners-his Prussian Quartets and Quartets dedicated to Haydn are deeper than Haydn's quartets.

Of course Mozart was supreme in the string quintet medium, bar none.

When we get to opera and the keyboard concertos, Haydn cannot be mentioned in the same breath with Mozart. Haydn's operas are incredibly dull and the keyboard concertos tiresome on repeated listening.

But Haydn's other works are fine. I prefer Haydn as a symphonist to Mozart and I would say that Haydn's Creation is superior both to Mozart's c Minor Mass and the Requiem.

Both were great composers and I wouldn't want to be without either one.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I don't agree on string quartets. Mozart wrote his string quartets for sophisticated listeners-his Prussian Quartets and Quartets dedicated to Haydn are deeper than Haydn's quartets.
> 
> Of course Mozart was supreme in the string quintet medium, bar none.
> 
> ...


The only thing I disagree with you on is the string quartets, to my ear Haydn has more through and through great quartets than Mozart. Everything else you is absolutely true, I was really just trying to counter DavidA saying "I really like Haydn's music but I never feel he quite matches Mozart's utterly sublime utterances", which I feel is an utterly false utterance.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Fugue Meister said:


> The only thing I disagree with you on is the string quartets, to my ear Haydn has more through and through great quartets than Mozart. Everything else you is absolutely true, I was really just trying to counter DavidA saying "I really like Haydn's music but I never feel he quite matches Mozart's utterly sublime utterances", which I feel is an utterly false utterance.


You know, I'm not much of a string quartet lover anyway. However listening to Haydn and Mozart's efforts in this medium, it's the latter's compositions that say to me "mega-genius at work."

I read the above and realize you were doing "point: counter-point".


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## Harold in Columbia (Jan 10, 2016)

Haydn put his genius into his string quartets, symphonies, piano trios, and (sporadically) oratorios.

Mozart put his genius into his operas, piano concertos, string quintets, and various odds and ends (the divertimento for string trio in E-flat major, K. 563; the late works for glass harmonica and mechanical clockwork organ), and his talent into his string quartets (and symphonies). Of course, it was still the greatest talent ever.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

hpowders said:


> You know, I'm not much of a string quartet lover anyway. However listening to Haydn and Mozart's efforts in this medium, *it's the latter's compositions that say to me "mega-genius at work.*"
> 
> I read the above and realize you were doing "point: counter-point".


Precisely
Haydn was a fine composer of quartets - but compared to Mozart D minor quartet? The Hunt or the dissonance quartet - I just dont think his best efforts reach that level.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

stomanek said:


> Precisely
> Haydn was a fine composer of quartets - but compared to Mozart D minor quartet? The Hunt or the dissonance quartet - I just dont think his best efforts reach that level.


Well maybe your right and maybe I'm right...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

juliante said:


> Which numbers are these please hpowders?


Sorry I took so long, juliante. So many threads, I'm drowning in words!!

The Paris Symphonies are: 82-87 and the Lodon Symphonies are 93-104.


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