# Mahler Symphony 5



## DavidA

Continuing my predictability, what are your takes on recordings of Mahler 5?


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## Larkenfield

Famous for its marvelous Adagietto. There are no words in it but the composer had written this poem out of love to his wife:

"Wie ich Dich liebe, Du meine Sonne, 
ich kann mit Worten Dir's nicht sagen. 
Nur meine Sehnsucht kann ich Dir klagen 
und meine Liebe, meine Wonne!"

(How much I love you, you my sun, 
I cannot tell you that with words. 
I can only lament to you my longing 
and my love, my bliss!)

It looks like Mahler was a goner on Alma.

The most serene Adagietto I have heard is by Barbirolli-my favorite recording of this emotionally supercharged symphony with its deeply felt sense of love and bliss toward his wife as part if it.


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## Merl

I love all of those below (Chailly, Barshai, Rattle, Bertini - just in case the links don't work) plus Barbirolli and Kubelik (live account on Audite) . This was the 2nd Mahler symphony I got into and it's still my 2nd fave Mahler symphony, after the 1st.

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## CnC Bartok

I think Merl's right in choosing the Audite Kubelík over his DGG recording, although the recording itself is better in the latter.

For me, in keeping with the predictability of this thread(!) it has to be Barbirolli.

However, I'd add Chailly's, Solti's, and Haitink's first recordings to my list of recommendations. 

Oh, and please don't tell anyone, but Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic are wonderful too. That one's a real gem.


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## Merl

That Barshai performance has always been a very special performance for me. I particularly love the adagietto, where he turns in a Walter-esque quick reading that just sounds absolutely perfect to me. Compare that to Haitink plodding agonisingly through the same movement and you'll see what I mean. Strangely it follows a very broad scherzo by Barshai but he doesn't make it sound slow (as others do) by capturing the rhythm and emphasising the dance features and brash horns.


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## Kiki

The scherzo in recordings of No. 5 is usually what makes or breaks for me. In the disguise of a gentle light-hearted dance, performances range from sublime to middle-of-the-road, to falling all over the place.

I like Abbado 93 Live the most, unforced and sublime, and IMHO the most fantastic among his four recordings. I also find Bernstein 87 Live convincing, where the emotions are well-balanced, with his usual overwhelming extrovert style much in-check. And then there is Karajan 73 who in my view has produced a mesmerising scherzo.
























Among recent recordings, I also like Harding 18, Honeck 11 and Nott 03, (wow Nott's is already 15 years old!), but for me they don't beat the effortlessness of Abbado 93.

And how I wish they all do it at a quicker speed like Walter 47 (but not the unsettling edges that occasionally creeps in).


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## david johnson

My preference is Solti/CSO. The oddest one I ever heard was Scherchen leading a French orchestra.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Not a particular favourite among Mahler's symphonies for me, so I don't listen to it that often. However, I have been impressed by Barshai and Barbirolli.


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## Triplets

david johnson said:


> My preference is Solti/CSO. The oddest one I ever heard was Scherchen leading a French orchestra.


I picked that one up in France (Scherchen) from one of those pedlars on the banks of the Seine. It is odd.
I don't have a favorite 5th. I heard Honeck Conduct it in Chicago recently and then sought out his recording and that is what I have listened to recently, but I also had added Vanska, Haitink, MTT, and Zander in the last few years to supplement the Solti, Bernstein and Karajan recordings that I had listened to for 30 years or so. The only one that I really don't like is Vanska, even though I purchased it as a High Res download and it sounds stupendous. He just seems rather clueless .


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## Heck148

both Solti/CSOs are superb - '70, '90....
Abbado/CSO on DG is also terrific, and excellently recorded....
for historical ones Walter/NYPO/'47is a classic...
my first exposure to the work was Scherchen/VSOO. which was pretty awful...couldn't believe that the great composer who'd written Syms 1 and 2 could have produced such a dog as that presented by Scherchen/VSOO....then I acquired the Walter, and it all made sense...
M5 = one of my favorite works.


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## mbhaub

This one. Staggering playing, incredibly intense. Mono sound is good. Anyone who loves this symphony needs to hear this.


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## Enthusiast

Merl said:


> That Barshai performance has always been a very special performance for me. I particularly love the adagietto, where he turns in a Walter-esque quick reading that just sounds absolutely perfect to me. Compare that to Haitink plodding agonisingly through the same movement and you'll see what I mean. Strangely it follows a very broad scherzo by Barshai but he doesn't make it sound slow (as others do) by capturing the rhythm and emphasising the dance features and brash horns.


You are not alone in that but it is one of the very few Mahler 5s that I actually do not like. I also don't like the Bertini very much (I find it a little bland). The versions I like most include Bernstein (VPO) and Jansons (both). Barbirolli's is special but I don't think he does the final movement well - and with so many very good recordings available it is that movement that usually makes or breaks a performance for me. I recently heard the newish Vanska and was surprised to find I liked it very much. The Boulez has some great insights. Abbado, Chailly, Shipway ... all are very good. There is a live Horenstein on the Pristine site that is very good.


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## Merl

Heck148 said:


> .... my first exposure to the work was Scherchen/VSOO. which was pretty awful...couldn't believe that the great composer who'd written Syms 1 and 2 could have produced such a dog as that presented by Scherchen/VSOO...


Yep, much as I admire Scherchen's Beethoven, his Mahler is all over the place. Me no likey at all (the recordings don't help) . Also much as I love Honeck's Mahler, his 5th (although brilliantly recorded) is his weakest account. It's decent but no better and there are much better M5s in the catalogue. As for the latest Vanska, it doesn't do a lot for me either. Like someone has just said, the scherzo makes or breaks this symphony.....and even though I know many Mahlerians hate it, I too deem Karajan's M5 as my guilty pleasure. It may not be strictly Mahler but the playing in that adagietto is soooo lush I can't help playing it every now and then and wallowing in its fluffiness (I know..... Marmite). Lol. :devil:


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## Kiki

Heck148 said:


> ... my first exposure to the work was Scherchen/VSOO. which was pretty awful...couldn't believe that the great composer who'd written Syms 1 and 2 could have produced such a dog as that presented by Scherchen/VSOO....then I acquired the Walter, and it all made sense...
> M5 = one of my favorite works.





david johnson said:


> My preference is Solti/CSO. The oddest one I ever heard was Scherchen leading a French orchestra.


Talking about how odd Scherchen's Mahler can be, Scherchen/VSOO 54 sounds pretty normal (relatively speaking) when compared to this one - Scherchen/Philhadelphia 1964 Live, with the scherzo cut to 5'41, and the adagietto stretched to 15'13! That's fifteen minutes plus, in case anyone suspects a typo.


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## SixFootScowl

This one is hard to beat:


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## DavidA

I first heard this symphony when I watched Prospect Theatres Hamlet at the Old Vic with Jacobi as Hamlet. That dates it a bit!

Recordings I possess:

Karajan - Richard Osborne reckons he recorded it too soon but sounds marvellous to me
Sinopoli - really interesting
Abbado / CSO - mesmeric adagio
Bernstein / VPO - a master here
Tennstedt - both the live and the studio - not sure which I prefer
Barbirolli - wonderful in a more quirky way
Rattle - highly touted BPO but not sure about it. Another listen perhaps? 
Just realised just how many versions I have!


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## DavidA

Just listening to Rattle's Mahler 5 / BPO. Is it me or do others find it oddly uninvolving?


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## CnC Bartok

Nope, it's not just you!


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## Brahmsianhorn

A piece very close to my heart. These five I consider the essential recordings:

1) Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) - profoundly moving, with a great understanding of the architecture, even though some consider the slow pacing of the final movement a drawback; I don’t - I think it is powerful with a suspenseful climax 

2) Jascha Horenstein (Pristine) - the most dramatic account I know; the sound of this live performance is really poor despite Pristine’s best efforts

3) Frank Shipway (RPO) - maybe the best Mahler recording of the past 30 years; hits all the marks in crystal clear sound

4) Rudolf Schwarz (Everest) - a very dark, profound reading in sumptuous late 50s sound; he takes the Adagietto relatively fast, but supposedly Mahler preferred it that way

5) Leonard Bernstein (DG) - absolutely milked for drama if a bit wayward

Other good versions:

Václav Neumann (1967) (Philips, Brilliant Classics)
Bruno Walter (Sony)
Hermann Scherchen (1953) (Westminster)
Dmitri Mitropoulos (Music & Arts)
Hermann Scherchen (1962) (Stradivarius, Living Stage)
Rafael Kubelik (1951) (Tahra)
Rudolf Barshai (Brilliant Classics)
James Levine (1978) (RCA)
Klaus Tennstedt (1988)
Claudio Abbado (DG)
Herbert von Karajan (DG)


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## 89Koechel

We can thank Misha (Jascha's nephew) for the Pristine reissue; otherwise, we'd have NO evidence of JH's great way with Mahler's 5th!


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## Larkenfield

Just to finish my comments on HvK's 5th and 6th, they were not intended to diss HvK's conducting overall. I thought he was a tremendous conductor of Brahms and Sibelius. But when it came to the Mahler 5th and 6th, I've never heard two performances so false and so wrong. All one has to do is compare them to the Barbirolli recordings or just about anyone else. But he evidently learned nothing from Barbirolli, and IMO had no business conducting Mahler and distorting his intentions. He led the Berlin Philharmonic down the Primrose path of interpretation, and it sounds more like _he_ was not ready rather than the _orchestra_ was not ready. I've never felt so strongly negative about two Mahler recordings, and listeners deserve far better and the real thing. But the listening experience taught me a valuable lesson on how certain famous conductors can be so wrong or so right... No one knows what HvK's true feelings were when Mahler was banned in Germany-and of course he certainly had to go along with the ban and might have been entirely fine with that at the time, though it would hardly serve him after the War to admit that ... and Mahler was not Mendelssohn-and then years later these two miserable recordings of the 5th and 6th when he evidently still had feel for the composer. He should have waited. But his performance of the 9th was rather good and he deserved credit for that as some form of redemption.


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## Gordontrek

Seeing how many Mahler 5 recordings you guys have listened to kinda makes me feel inferior...here's my faves in no particular order:
Bernstein- NY Phil and Vienna Philharmonic, both excellent
Abbado- Chicago Symphony (great sound quality, good interp, and wonderful orchestral playing especially from that legendary CSO brass)
Karajan- Berlin Philharmonic, 1973. Solid recording
Yannick Nezet-Seguin- Philadelphia Orchestra. A live recording and pretty recent too, 2010 I think. Excellent sound.

Admittedly I haven't heard many others, but I suppose this is a good start.


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## 89Koechel

Lark - Actually, there were/are 2 different issues of HvK in Mahler's 9th; one from 1975, the other, a live recording/1982. Both have very good points, and the Berlin Phil is simply great.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Larkenfield said:


> Just to finish my comments on HvK's 5th and 6th, they were not intended to diss HvK's conducting overall. I thought he was a tremendous conductor of Brahms and Sibelius. But when it came to the Mahler 5th and 6th, I've never heard two performances so false and so wrong. All one has to do is compare them to the Barbirolli recordings or just about anyone else. But he evidently learned nothing from Barbirolli, and IMO had no business conducting Mahler and distorting his intentions. He led the Berlin Philharmonic down the Primrose path of interpretation, and it sounds more like _he_ was not ready rather than the _orchestra_ was not ready. I've never felt so strongly negative about two Mahler recordings, and listeners deserve far better and the real thing. But the listening experience taught me a valuable lesson on how certain famous conductors can be so wrong or so right... No one knows what HvK's true feelings were when Mahler was banned in Germany-and of course he certainly had to go along with the ban and might have been entirely fine with that at the time, though it would hardly serve him after the War to admit that ... and Mahler was not Mendelssohn-and then years later these two miserable recordings of the 5th and 6th when he evidently still had feel for the composer. He should have waited. But his performance of the 9th was rather good and he deserved credit for that as some form of redemption.


HvK's live 1982 9th is one of the great Mahler recordings, no doubt. I listed his 5th as an alternative for the luscious sound, but it does miss the mark compared to others in terms of reaching the inner essence of the work, as is the case with many HvK recordings.

I'm not a HvK fan, but it is interesting that he left superlative recordings of my three favorite symphonies: Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 8th, and Mahler's 9th. Maybe their epic qualities brought out the best in Herbie.


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## 89Koechel

Brahmsian - Yes, it seems that, often, Herbie reserved his BEST efforts for the most-epical of works, incl. the ones you mentioned. Some of us might still think, though, that he never surpassed his exceptional predecessor - Furtwangler - in either the Bruckner, nor the Beethoven. It's a matter of opinion, of course! .. As for HvK in Mahler 9th/1982, it's spread over TWO CDs. Well, that's OK, but the 1975 version (DG) also includes the estimable alto - Christa Ludwig - in Kindertotenlieder & Ruckertlieder, and Herbie does pretty-WELL with the orchestral parts, also. Of course, even Ms. Ludwig could NEVER erase the memory of Kathleen Ferrier, in Kindertotenlieder, but no one else ever could (or will), either.


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## Brahmsianhorn

89Koechel said:


> Brahmsian - Yes, it seems that, often, Herbie reserved his BEST efforts for the most-epical of works, incl. the ones you mentioned. Some of us might still think, though, that he never surpassed his exceptional predecessor - Furtwangler - in either the Bruckner, nor the Beethoven. It's a matter of opinion, of course! .. As for HvK in Mahler 9th/1982, it's spread over TWO CDs. Well, that's OK, but the 1975 version (DG) also includes the estimable alto - Christa Ludwig - in Kindertotenlieder & Ruckertlieder, and Herbie does pretty-WELL with the orchestral parts, also. Of course, even Ms. Ludwig could NEVER erase the memory of Kathleen Ferrier, in Kindertotenlieder, but no one else ever could (or will), either.


I consider Furtwängler's 1942 Beethoven 9th and 1944 Bruckner 8th to be the greatest symphony recordings of all time. And Barbirolli's live 1960 Mahler 9th is not far behind.

Karajan left great recordings of all three works, and arguably they are the best stereo versions available, but give me Furtwängler and Barbirolli for the ultimate experience.


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## Becca

One of my great concert going memories is of Barbirolli doing the Mahler 9th with the Los Angeles Philharmonic in the late 1960s.

As this is a Mahler 5th thread, I will just note that the Barbirolli has long been my favourite but it was very recently eclipsed when I finally had the chance to hear the Barshai recording. Those teenagers did a fantastic job. It is interesting that 2 of my favourite Mahler performances (5th and 8th) are with youth orchestras. I have seen both Solti & Boulez do the 5th, both memorable for different reasons, but neither of their recordings are in my personal preference list.


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## 89Koechel

OK, you guys continue to recommend Barbirolli. I like the old video, in which he keeps COAXING/FORCING his orchestra (Halle?) to improve their tempo, in the Scherzo of Bruckner's 7th … until they reach the "right" point. I'll look for some of his recordings, and thanks for the recommendation of Mahler 9th. …. BTW, Brahmsian - (WF in Beethoven's 9th/1942) - Yeah, that's probably the most-FAMOUS one; there were at least 3 or 4 OTHERS (from 1937-onwards) and there's even a reissue from the Japanese arm of the WF Society, that has the COMPLETE Bayreuth Fest. one (from July, 1951) that is from the ENTIRE performance. Walter Legge/producer included some parts of the rehearsals of that performance in the old EMI issue, and it's truly nice to have the TOTAL conception, of WF, in intact form.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Just relistened to the Karajan 5th. Nice sound but soooo boring. DavidA, what do you see in him?


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## 89Koechel

Thanks, Becca … and this IS a thread 'bout Mahler 5th, and appreciate your mention of Rudolf Barshai, and the Youth Orchestra. It's available on Amazon, for about $50, or more - so, is it truly worth it, when the "anchor" - the Walter version - has been available, for many years?


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## Becca

Other Barbirolli/Mahler recommendations 
... the 1st in a studio recording from 1957, somewhat predates the big Mahler boom.
... the 3rd in a 'live' broadcast performance with the Halle (not the Berlin performance)
... the 6th in a live Proms performance with the New Philharmonia (not the studio recording done a few days later)
... there are a number of 9ths, my preference being the studio 9th with the Berlin Phiharmonic


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## Becca

I wouldn't spend $50 on it but you can listen to it on Spotify.


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## 89Koechel

Thanks, and it's on YouTube, also! Unless someone has truly-convincing arguments, otherwise, I might stay-with the fellow - Jascha Horenstein … always-cogent (in virtually ALL of his recordings), never hysterical, but with a true succinctness and "rightness" of tempos, that … to me … never falter.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I could go with Barbirolli for every Mahler symphony (save the 8th, for which no recording exists) and be happy.

There is a live Barbirolli 5th somewhere out there - I think with the Houston Symphony - but I have not heard it.


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## Becca

In the 'if only' category ... Barbirolli was scheduled to record the 7th with the BPO in 1971, unfortunately...


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Just relistened to the Karajan 5th. Nice sound but soooo boring. DavidA, what do you see in him?


I don't see - I hear! :lol:

How anyone could find it boring with the BPO playing as they do is quite beyond me but there's no accounting for human taste! But then you probably felt you had a duty to find it boring ?

I am actually the fortunate person who can enjoy Mahler interpretations by a wide variety of conductors as you will see if you look at my list, without getting into tunnel vision about recordings. 
I'm also pleased that I don't shut off from certain conductors just because of what it's fashionable for the press to write .
BTW If you find HvK boring (I don't) please don't listen to him! There are plenty of people who want to listen and enjoy. :lol:


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I could go with Barbirolli for every Mahler symphony (save the 8th, for which no recording exists) and be happy.
> 
> There is a live Barbirolli 5th somewhere out there - I think with the Houston Symphony - but I have not heard it.


Interesting that I have just read a review which said that Barburolli's Mahler was extremely variable. So you see not everybody thinks one way.


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## Heck148

I've never really understood the admiration for Barbirolli's BPO Mahler 9....the BPO was not familiar with this music, it might have been there first real exposure to it...it was my first exposure to the work, and it seemed ok, which I guess it is..then I acquired the Walter/ColSO recording which blew it away entirely...The Walter is still a favorite of mine, that stacks up very well with more recent versions...


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> But then you probably felt you had a duty to find it boring ?
> I am actually the fortunate person who can enjoy Mahler interpretations by a wide variety of conductors as you will see if you look at my list, without getting into tunnel vision about recordings.


If that's the case, then why did I write earlier that I think Karajan's versions of Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 8th, and Mahler's 9th are among the best ever recorded? (an opinion shared by most critics, by the way) Maybe it's hard to admit that I find Karajan's interpretation of Mahler's 5th boring...because it really is boring.

Can you name a Karajan recording that you DON'T like?


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## realdealblues

I'm much pickier on the 5th symphony because I love it so much.

My favorites:

Leonard Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic
Herbert Von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic
James Levine/Philadelphia Orchestra

To me these 3 get the most out of Mahler's 5th. There are small quibbles with every recording but I think these work out best on the whole and as a complete symphony.

There are others that I enjoy and have small quibbles with as well, but on the whole to me they don't match or surpass the previous ones I've mentioned.

Claudio Abbado/Chicago Symphony (I generally dislike Abbado in Mahler but this is one he actually does pretty good with and the Chicago Symphony is in great form and provides more details than with either Solti recording)

Michael Gielen/SWR Symphony Orchestra (If you want less emotion and more following the line and direction of Mahler, it's pretty tough to beat this one)

Rudolf Barshai/German Youth Philharmonic (I love the timing of the Adagietto being more in line with Walters and overall it's great, there's small issues with the intonation, etc of the youth orchestra but overall it's really pretty great)

Rafael Kubelik/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (I like the live one on Audite for the performance but the sound is better in the studio recording. They are very similar in but Kubelik is a tad more expansive in the live recording which I like.)

Barbirolli is far too quirky in this one for me. I have never understood the fascination with it.

If you can get past the mono live sonics another fantastic recording that would be on par with my top 3 would be Paul Paray/Detroit Symphony. Outstanding performance but most would never give it a listen because of the sound quality.


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## Bwv 1080




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## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> If you can get past the mono live sonics another fantastic recording that would be on par with my top 3 would be Paul Paray/Detroit Symphony. Outstanding performance but most would never give it a listen because of the sound quality.
> View attachment 111656


Not seeing it on Amazon or You Tube.


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> If that's the case, then why did I write earlier that I think Karajan's versions of Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 8th, and Mahler's 9th are among the best ever recorded? (an opinion shared by most critics, by the way) Maybe it's hard to admit that I find Karajan's interpretation of Mahler's 5th boring...because it really is boring.
> 
> *Can you name a Karajan recording that you DON'T like?[*/QUOTE]
> 
> I don't buy recordings I don't like. Do you?
> 
> You are quite Welcome to find Karajan's Mahler 5 boring btw. Always room for minority taste!


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## DavidA

Just listened to Bernstein's Mahler 5 with VPO. Really tremendous stuff. One of Lenny's 'on' days when he didn't go too far OTT


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## Merl

Strangely enough I've just been listening to a Mahler 5 from 1995's Mahlerfeest and much as I don't always like Abbado's Mahler he gets it pretty right. I'm only halfway through the scherzo, up to now, but this is a fine reading. If I have one criticism then it's that Abbado is a bit safe in the symphony's more turbulent moments but the BPO's playing is superb throughout. Looking forward to listening to the remainder in the morning. Had Chailly's 1st from the 1995 Mahlerfeest on the other day and that's a very good performance too.


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## realdealblues

Fritz Kobus said:


> Not seeing it on Amazon or You Tube.


I've never seen it on YouTube

I had to import it from France from an Amazon seller I believe...
Here you go:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005PZFE9C/ref=nosim/musicontheweb02

Looks like you can get it from Switzerland for under $20, but obviously will take a bit for you to receive it.

By the way, it also includes Glenn Gould playing Beethoven's Piano Concerto 2 and Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto with Arnold Steinhardt who was a founding member of the Guarneri Quartet.


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## DavidA

Merl said:


> Strangely enough I've just been listening to a Mahler 5 from 1995's Mahlerfeest and much as I don't always like Abbado's Mahler he gets it pretty right. I'm only halfway through the scherzo, up to now, but this is a fine reading. If I have one criticism then it's that Abbado is a bit safe in the symphony's more turbulent moments but the BPO's playing is superb throughout. Looking forward to listening to the remainder in the morning. Had Chailly's 1st from the 1995 Mahlerfeest on the other day and that's a very good performance too.


I have Abbado / CSO. His slow movement is very fine indeed.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Heck148 said:


> I've never really understood the admiration for Barbirolli's BPO Mahler 9....the BPO was not familiar with this music, it might have been there first real exposure to it...it was my first exposure to the work, and it seemed ok, which I guess it is..then I acquired the Walter/ColSO recording which blew it away entirely...The Walter is still a favorite of mine, that stacks up very well with more recent versions...


The live 1960 recording is the best Barbirolli version IMO


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## SixFootScowl

realdealblues said:


> I've never seen it on YouTube
> 
> I had to import it from France from an Amazon seller I believe...
> Here you go:
> https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005PZFE9C/ref=nosim/musicontheweb02
> 
> Looks like you can get it from Switzerland for under $20, but obviously will take a bit for you to receive it.
> 
> By the way, it also includes Glenn Gould playing Beethoven's Piano Concerto 2 and Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto with Arnold Steinhardt who was a founding member of the Guarneri Quartet.


No wonder I could not find it. It is hidden under a couple piano concertos. I probably had it up and didn't even notice. See how it is not mentioned in the heading but you have to look at the back image. Thanks.


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## MarkW

Some thoughts abouth the Fifth from the early days of the Mahler revival:

Bernstein's NYPO version is so over the top as to be almost false.
Leinsdorf's more measured contemporaneous recording is actually better than you would think -- if you can get past the BSO's remarkably uneven (and sometimes weird sounding) brass.
Solti's first CSO recording was a sonic spectacular, with the brass often jumping right out of the frame and attacking you. But when he brought them under control in his remake 20 years later, you realized there was less to the actual performance then meets the eye.
Abbravanel's was vanilla, but good.
Same with Haitink, but with a world class orchestra.
Kubelik's was characteristically excellent, but the Bavarian Radio Symphony remained a second tier orchestra despite his long reign there.
I personally never understood Barbirolli's tempo in the finale, which is all about exuberance.
Some people liked Sinoppoli (including one reviewer I mistakenly followed). I played it once and threw it away.
The King of Awful was Ozawa. I actually sat in my car to the end to find out what amateur orchestra was being misled by what overly misguided conductor. 

Generally: It's in my upper division of Mahler symphonies -- but if you're playing the finale absent-mindedly in your head, it's easy to miss the off ramp and circle around in it forever.


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## DarkAngel

Overall fav is DG Bernstein WP, like conductors who push the envelope in Mahler to find the unique angles and abstract elements of soundscapes while conveying the soul of the composer, Bernstein very in touch with Mahler's art.....

I like the mentions of budget price Shipway RPO CD and have a couple more low price releases that still stand tall and I go back for repeat listens.....










Many of the 1980s Denon Inbal series still sound fresh, very clear orchestral textures










Best of the Naxos set, very exciting spirited performance, strong overall










For fans of Mehta WP Mahler 2nd (me) this is a nice pick-up, earlier LAPO performance even faster but a little light on soulful spritual elements.....


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## Heck148

MarkW said:


> The King of Awful was Ozawa. I actually sat in my car to the end to find out what amateur orchestra was being misled by what overly misguided conductor.


Similar experience with the dreadful Leinsdorf/BSO mess...I was in the car, tuned in partway thru Finale...thought I was hearing a broadcast tape of some regional orchestra on a bad night....poor balances, weak inner parts, bad ensemble....then the unmistakable braying "nanny-goat" sound of the first trumpet appeared, immediately IDing the recording as Leinsdorf/BSO...gawd, I thought that one died on LP...
The Scherchen/VSOO was a real dog, too, my first exposure to the work....couldn't believe the composer of the great 1st and 2nd symphonies could crank out such a loser.....then I acquired Walter/NYPO - it all made sense...Schechen/VSOO, good for a lot of party laughs, last seen imitating a frisbee, in flight over the gorge at Letchworth State Park, NY....


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## Heck148

Solti's first CSO recording came out right after they performed M5 at Carnegie Hall NY, in 3/70....I was at that concert, which has now achieved a rather legendary status, and rightfully so...incredible experience!! The level of virtuosity of the orchestra was beyond anything I'd ever heard - and I had heard most all of the world's greatest orchestras by that point at least once.....These CSO guys never missed!! and they went all out - really loud, really soft, really legato...It was a different world, a different level..

The recording ['70] is excellent, and for 4.8 movements, is really stellar - my one complaint is the screwed up "knob-twiddling" the Decca engineers did in the closing pages - they miked down the trumpets - in live concert - the big, long, trumpet lines over full orchestra were incredible - Trumpet I [Herseth] played with this huge, glorious sound, that simply soared over the top...how one person can make so much sound, I don't know...never forced or pinched, just this huge glowing, resonant sound.

In fairness to the recording engineers, no system could possibly have absorbed and processed the same sound that the audience heard that night...still, Solti's '90 recording is closer to the real thing, and perhaps even better, the Abbado/CSO DG recording - on those you at least get the idea of the overwhelmingly powerful sound that was generated by the CSO.
Still and all, the '70 Solti is a great document, and is very close to the live performance I heard in Carnegie Hall...


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## Totenfeier

The Fifth is Mahler's "meh" symphony for me; I can't get really worked up about it. Just write a horn concerto and call it a day. That said, two stand out in their own ways:

Walter NYPO 1947. Dammit, Mahler _needs_ to be played faster, generally!

Kondrashin, USSR SO 1974. I was startled by how such a familiar work could sound so alien, weird and wonderful to my ears.


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## Kiki

Totenfeier said:


> ....
> 
> Walter NYPO 1947. Dammit, Mahler _needs_ to be played faster, generally!
> 
> Kondrashin, USSR SO 1974. I was startled by how such a familiar work could sound so alien, weird and wonderful to my ears.


Couldn't agree more about Kondrashin 74! And it's fast overall, close to Walter 47.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Karajan rehearses Mahler 5, with a bit of Tamino's "Bildnis" aria thrown in. Sadly it doesn't last long, but as I've not seen HvK in Mahler before, it's better than nothing.


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## Xaltotun

Shipway is very good! But Karajan is my favourite. Strangely, I'm not very fond of Bernstein/VPO... I feel it is missing something.

Generally, it just might be my favourite Mahler symphony, because it always remains elusive. Is it heroic? Tragic? Sardonic? Dark? Bright? It keeps me guessing.


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## jdec

Abbado/BPO, Bernstein/VPO and Karajan/BPO are my favorite Mahler's 5th versions. Others I have from the top of my head are Gergiev/LSO, Boulez/VPO, Rattle/BPO, Dudamel/SBYO, Tilson Thomas, etc


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## Oldhoosierdude

Reviving this thread to let you all know about a Mahler 5 free for download. I listed it in another thread also.









https://play.openmusiclibrary.org/lists/835/mahler-symphony-no-5?utm_source=imc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=clmupromo-20190604

Mahler symphony no 5. recording by WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln conducted by Jukka-Pekka Saraste, 2014. I have listened through more than once and quite like this recording. My other recordings are the Shipway and Abravenel, both of which I like almost equally. I tried quite a few others on the youtube and settled on those (the Abravenel comes in a Bach Guild $.99 box so it was a no brainer).

The only "Professional" review I saw on the Saraste recording was very critical and, being the musically ignorant soul I am I didn't see any of those complaints as meaningful to me. I like it, Saraste has a unique take and the sound quality is fantastic.


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## flamencosketches

The sound is great. Is this a live recording?

I really love this symphony; lately, as I mentioned in another thread, it has become my go-to Mahler symphony. It contains everything I love about Mahler, with a good dose of darkness plus a layer of counterpoint that you don't quite see in his earlier symphonies.


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## Becca

An exceptional live Mahler 5th is the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie with Rudolf Barshai. Yet another case of a youth orchestra trumping many of the professionals! It is worth noting that Barshai does not drag out the adagietto but takes it at a similar tempo to earlier recordings.


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## Larkenfield

Considering the great differences in length of this movement from one recording to the next, I believe some conductors forget to take into account, or ignore entirely, that an _Adagietto_ is slightly faster than an _Adagio_. It's an Adagietto that is less drawn out and lingering and has a greater sense of pace, tender and loving, but perhaps not as emotionally heavy.


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## SixFootScowl

....................................


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## Kiki

Larkenfield said:


> Considering the great differences in length of this movement, I believe some conductors forget to take into account, or ignore entirely, that an _Adagietto_ is slightly faster than an _Adagio_. It's an Adagietto that is less drawn out and lingering and has a greater sense of pace, tender and loving but perhaps not as emotionally heavy.


Good point! For me the Adagietto in the majority of recordings are too slow. Interestingly, Bruno Walter in 1947 clocked at 7:36, while Scherchen in his heavily cut 1964 live recording clocked at a whopping 15:13! Have to be heard to be believed.


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## MrMeatScience

Kenneth Slowik recorded a period instrument rendition of the Adagietto with the Smithsonian Chamber Ensemble, which clocks in at 7:36. It's an interesting recording, if not the best played, but I love the less languorous pace. Mengelberg's was his primary reference recording, and he makes use of some additional markings from Mahler by way of Mengelberg's score. 

Gielen's might also be considered relatively brisk for a modern recording (8:30).


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## Becca

...and then there's Vanska and Shipway etc., etc.


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## Yevgenni

I recommended you to listen to Kondrashin with MocsowPO. For me his interpretation very interesting and very unique. I wish you like.


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## DarkAngel

https://www.pristineclassical.com/products/pasc567

Been listening to 58 Horenstein a BBC studio recording previously unreleased, excellent sound quality and great performance. Everest Records recorded M5 with LSO right after this but without Horenstein (who was ending his VOX recording contact)



> In August 1958 Everest began making a series of commercial recordings with the LSO that initially featured Walter Susskind and Eugene Goossens conducting contemporary music. Then in September the LSO's manager John Cruft wrote to Everest with more repertoire and conductor suggestions including, among others, a recording of Mahler's Fifth with Rudolf Schwarz. In his letter Cruft did not mention Horenstein, already one of the LSO's regular guest conductors and about to tackle the Fifth (and later the Eighth) with the orchestra. Whether this omission was accidental or deliberate is unknown, but, according to the LSO's official discography, Everest's recording of the Fifth Symphony with Schwarz, the orchestra's first commercial recording of any music by Mahler, was made on 10-11 Nov. 1958, just ten days after Horenstein rehearsed, recorded and performed it with the same orchestra in London


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

I have this one:

I have a special thought on this composer-we share a birthday date :>...


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## HerbertNorman

This thread has helped me , as I am trying to get stuck in to Mahler and have found a connection with this symphony (along with the fourth) more than let's say the 2nd and 3d. The Barshai recording , I compared with the 1987 Bernstein one and a Haitink recording... difference is clear. The Adagietto seems to be the factor ...


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## mparta

Heck148 said:


> Solti's first CSO recording came out right after they performed M5 at Carnegie Hall NY, in 3/70....I was at that concert, which has now achieved a rather legendary status, and rightfully so...incredible experience!! The level of virtuosity of the orchestra was beyond anything I'd ever heard - and I had heard most all of the world's greatest orchestras by that point at least once.....These CSO guys never missed!! and they went all out - really loud, really soft, really legato...It was a different world, a different level..
> 
> The recording ['70] is excellent, and for 4.8 movements, is really stellar - my one complaint is the screwed up "knob-twiddling" the Decca engineers did in the closing pages - they miked down the trumpets - in live concert - the big, long, trumpet lines over full orchestra were incredible - Trumpet I [Herseth] played with this huge, glorious sound, that simply soared over the top...how one person can make so much sound, I don't know...never forced or pinched, just this huge glowing, resonant sound.
> 
> In fairness to the recording engineers, no system could possibly have absorbed and processed the same sound that the audience heard that night...still, Solti's '90 recording is closer to the real thing, and perhaps even better, the Abbado/CSO DG recording - on those you at least get the idea of the overwhelmingly powerful sound that was generated by the CSO.
> Still and all, the '70 Solti is a great document, and is very close to the live performance I heard in Carnegie Hall...


I played woodwinds when I was a kid and so had a wind-centered mind when hearing a piece like this, but this is very much a wind- (horn and trumpet) centered piece in many aspects, despite the fame of the slow movement. I think Stokowski played it with a teenage Dale Clevenger in Chicago seated in front of the orchestra almost as a horn concerto. The brass playing on their Solti recording is sooooo spectacular, and I've read comments from european orchestra players after the Solti/CSO tours that admitted they'd never heard orchestra playing that good, didn't know it could be done. Many of their great orchestras -- ok, all of their orchestras -- still can't match that particular aspect. To my ear the BPO still sounds forced at full "blast", and that word blast is something brass players use as a criticism. The VPO blasts. An expert could address the issue of instruments.

I heard the work with the Houston symphony (very good orchestra in the right hands) under Eschenbach. They responded to him.

I find the piece bitter. Not a favorite in general, I never pull it off the shelf despite the glories of some orchestral playing.

I haven't much thought about this, virtuosity has affected my younger self's appreciation of Mahler and I've moved away from it. Even the 2nd, which I adore, is too much of a schlog. Oh well, maybe requires more thought.


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## Kiki

I have been listening to several recordings performed by some perhaps not so household names. This is one of them - a 1991 studio recording of Mahler #5 from Alain Lombard and the Orchestre national Bordeaux Aquitaine.

I like it - fast with subtle rubati, thunderous tuttis at the beginning and the very end, a scherzo that unfolds naturally, a finale that resembles a concerto for brass. For me, it is definitely a dark horse, despite the occasional rough sound of the orchestra, which is not a showstopper, and in fact it adds a sense of vulnerability that I find exciting to listen to. (I know, I'm sick!)

It was recorded in 1991, so the slow-everything-down motion had already caught on; but this is one of the faster Mahler #5s that I have heard. In fact, both the Scherzo and the Finale are faster than Scherchen's 1952 uncut version, so it is fair to say that it is pretty fast. On the other hand, the tempo of the Adagietto is quite normal for a modern recording, i.e. pretty slow, although still under ten minutes. It is neither the most beautiful ever, nor does it have the most mesmerizing pianissimo, but I like the natural-sounding rubato here, and the relatively straightforward reading.

There are no crowd-pleasing blasts. In fact, only the beginning and the very end sound thunderous enough to blow the roof off, but during these moments the energy converges mostly towards the lower end of the spectrum which is a bit unusual among other Mahler #5 recordings that I have listened to.

The timbre of the winds is interesting. A "French" timbre in as recent as 1991? I do not know. It sounds a bit rough, but certainly not on the verge of cracking up like a Soviet orchestra. But I do like the passages in the Finale that resemble a "concerto for brass" which stands out very well. The strings are a little bit on the thin side though. The harp is also interesting. Usually we get melted marshmallow (whereas we don't have a plate), but the harp here sounds like, ar, I thought in some passages we have a mandolin instead - crispy rather than crystalline. Overall it is not bad, just not as glorious as some modern big bands that we are so used to hearing these days. It is nevertheless good enough for me to listen through the whole symphony comfortably.

What really wins it for me is the natural-sounding, unforced Scherzo, despite being played at a fast speed. Too slack or too slow will usually lose cohesion; too forceful will always make it sound annoying. Glad to say it sounds pretty spot on here.

Despite its flaws, there are no showstoppers that stop me from liking it. In fact, I like it a lot.










Also found it on Spotify with a different cover:


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## golfer72

DarkAngel said:


> Overall fav is DG Bernstein WP, like conductors who push the envelope in Mahler to find the unique angles and abstract elements of soundscapes while conveying the soul of the composer, Bernstein very in touch with Mahler's art.....
> 
> I like the mentions of budget price Shipway RPO CD and have a couple more low price releases that still stand tall and I go back for repeat listens.....
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Many of the 1980s Denon Inbal series still sound fresh, very clear orchestral textures
> 
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> 
> 
> Best of the Naxos set, very exciting spirited performance, strong overall
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> For fans of Mehta WP Mahler 2nd (me) this is a nice pick-up, earlier LAPO performance even faster but a little light on soulful spritual elements.....


I like the Inbal series a lot. terrific sound


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## starthrower

SixFootScowl said:


> This one is hard to beat:


I don't have that particular issue but the Shipway M5 was my favorite of the CDs I picked up in the summer of 2020 when I was on a big M5 kick. Also enjoyed the Boulez.


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## KevinJS

After years of avoiding Mahler, or perhaps more correctly never getting round to him, I’m finally digging in so I’ll be reading through this thread before exploring the 5th. Having just checked, I have the CBS CD by Bernstein and probably a few more in box sets and on vinyl. More later, once I’ve had a read and a listen.


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## Kreisler jr

The Shipway was a dark horse and one of the best of that Royal Philharmonic cheapo series (that also has a Shostakovich 10th with Shipway). It has a very slow adagietto (but he is in good company here).
The Bernstein to get in this is the DG one, I think (although I am biased as it was my first recording of the piece).


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## starthrower

KevinJS said:


> After years of avoiding Mahler, or perhaps more correctly never getting round to him, I'm finally digging in so I'll be reading through this thread before exploring the 5th. Having just checked, I have the CBS CD by Bernstein and probably a few more in box sets and on vinyl. More later, once I've had a read and a listen.


I hope you enjoy the music! And don't get too hung up on opinions at this forum. There are a lot of very fussy listeners here.


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## Barbebleu

As ST points out there are no bad Mahler 5s. Only hypercritical listeners!


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## starthrower

Barbebleu said:


> As ST points out there are no bad Mahler 5s. Only hypercritical listeners!


And the opera crowd is even worse! I've never seen so many singers torn to pieces over every phrase and vocal inflection.


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## Heck148

Barbebleu said:


> As ST points out there are no bad Mahler 5s. Only hypercritical listeners!


Oh, there are indeed some poor Mahler 5s....
My first exposure to the work was Scherchen/VSOO [awful] - I already knew M2, and 1 [Walter]....I couldn't believe the composer who had produced such great pieces as Syms 1 and 2 could crank out such a turkey as #5!! Then I picked up the Walter/NYPO - and it all made sense....the Scherchen was a popular "party" record for us...it really was bad...in defense of it, the VSOO may have recorded this after performing an entire Wagner opera, for all we know....My LP was last seen imitating a frisbee as it soared out over the Great Gorge at Letchworth State Park [NY] lol!!

The Leinsdorf/BSO is another dud...I was driving home from a gig late one night - I turned on the radio, and M5 was playing somewhere in mvt III, iirc....I thought it was a broadcast tape of some regional orchestra having a bad night....then the finale got going, and the ultra-bright, nasal, nanny-goat sound of trumpet I [Voisin] became evident...sure enough, it was Leinsdorf/BSO....[why did they even releases this??]


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## KevinJS

There's a 5th in this box (Dudamel/Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela) along with 1, 2 and 9. Seems like a good place to start.


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## starthrower

Practically speaking, I doubt most new Mahler listeners would go for those recordings anyway. I'm assuming listeners will go for more familiar names like Bernstein, Abaddo, Boulez, and even Kubelik whose cycle is pretty highly regarded. I'm going back to Bernstein after not listening to any Mahler for quite a while. I just dug out my DG set and listened to No.1. And I finally ordered a copy of the remastered NYP set. I was still missing a few recordings so rather than buy used copies of the old editions I bought the full set so I'll have everything in a convenient clamshell box.

Edit: I was referring to the recordings Heck 148 mentioned.


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## bassaliens22

Mahler 5 is probably the Mahler symphony I struggle the most with, regarding finding an ideal recording. In particular several sticking points are the length of the Adagietto (I absolutely cannot tolerate the standard of 9-10 minutes for the Adagietto, it turns it into an elegy when it should be a love song. The ideal should be about 7-8 minutes long), the structural coherence of the Rondo-Finale, and the vigor and structural integrity of the Scherzo. So far, I have found 3 recordings that manage to partially fit my criteria: 
Bruno Walter with the NYPO
Rudolf Schwarz with the LSO
Rudolf Barshai with the JDP

All of the above have problems. Walter's is in mono sound (something I generally don't like in orchestral recordings) and sounds rushed at many points, probably because of the recording format constraints of the era. Schwarz's LSO uses Mahler's older revision (missing the 1911 reorchestrations he did while writing the 9th) and has less than stellar playing at many spots, including a very prominent trumpet crack in the second movement. Barshai's Adagietto is almost too slow for my taste, the Rondo-Finale is not quite as structurally cohesive as I'd like, and the JDP understandably have minor intonation problems throughout. All the other recordings I've heard (and I've heard plenty) miss the mark for me. The search continues I suppose.


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## Kreisler jr

Have you tried Gielen/Hänssler? 8:30 adagietto, very good sound and playing, its main fault is that it is a bit too cool and not vicious enough in the 2nd movement.
Or Wyn Morris (Collins, unfortunately, bronzing possible). An even faster adagietto but quite slow everywhere else which might not be ideal but is made up by characterful details.


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## bassaliens22

Kreisler jr said:


> Have you tried Gielen/Hänssler? 8:30 adagietto, very good sound and playing, its main fault is that it is a bit too cool and not vicious enough in the 2nd movement.
> Or Wyn Morris (Collins, unfortunately, bronzing possible). An even faster adagietto but quite slow everywhere else which might not be ideal but is made up by characterful details.


I've never gotten along with Gielen's Mahler, something about the tone of the orchestra (especially the strings) rubs me the wrong way, and I've generally found Gielen's conducting to a lack a certain sense of flow or confidence. "Too cool" may not be entirely the right way to put it, but even in his lauded recordings like his Mahler 10 I sense a lack of energy a lot of the time. Listening to the Rondo-Finale of the 5th, I can't help but feel like it's just not exuberant enough in general, like the orchestra is being too restrained as a whole.

I haven't looked too deeply into Morris' Mahler recordings, many aren't often mentioned outside of his 10th (which I'm trying to acquire at the moment but am having a rather difficult time sourcing) and his Des Knaben Wunderhorn (which is on my listening backlog). Perhaps I'll look into his 5th, but taking the non-Adagietto movements too slow seems like a bad idea as well. Lots of other recordings get killed by slow Rondo-Finales or slow Scherzos.


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## Marc

bassaliens22 said:


> [...]Lots of other recordings get killed by slow Rondo-Finales or slow Scherzos.


"The Scherzo is a damnable movement. It will have a long history of suffering! Conductors will take it too fast for fifty years, and audiences - oh heavens - what sort of faces will they pull at this chaos….."

(Gustav Mahler, speaking of the Scherzo of his 5th symphony before the 1904 première.)

I personally love the Scherzo on the slower side, not as fast as a Waltz, but more like a Ländler...
Haitink/Berliner Phil, Bernstein/Wiener Phil, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie and Stenz/Melbourne Symphony are a few nice Scherzo examples of _nicht zu schnell_.


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## bassaliens22

Marc said:


> "The Scherzo is a damnable movement. It will have a long history of suffering! Conductors will take it too fast for fifty years, and audiences - oh heavens - what sort of faces will they pull at this chaos….."
> 
> (Gustav Mahler, speaking of the Scherzo of his 5th symphony before the 1904 première.)
> 
> I personally love the Scherzo on the slower side, not as fast as a Waltz, but more like a Ländler...
> Haitink/Berliner Phil, Bernstein/Wiener Phil, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie and Stenz/Melbourne Symphony are a few nice Scherzo examples of _nicht zu schnell_.


I've always found that quote somewhat ironic given the current practice of playing Mahler so much slower than the timings we know he preferred. 10 minute Adagiettos (Walter and Mengelberg both took somewhere between 7-8), 10 minute Himmlische Lebens (Mahler's piano roll is about 8 minutes), are just 2 of the examples that come to mind.

Regardless, the Scherzo section is definitely not meant to be a waltz. The problem with taking the Ländler description too seriously as well is that you risk making an already long Scherzo into an actual marathon, and taking the Scherzo section that slow means you have to take the Trio section even slower, turning it into a drag. Overall timings are probably not very useful in terms of comparison here because of the huge tempo variation that occurs throughout the movement, but in general if I find myself getting bored by the second time the Trio comes around, it doesn't have enough momentum behind it.


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## Kreisler jr

You apparently have very particular demands.... a fast adagietto rules out many; you probably have tried Solti (fast and furious, except in the adagietto) and Kubelik (very idiomatic, IMO, but also 9-10 min. adagietto).
I have not heard Kondrashin but his 6th and 7th are favorites of mine and they are fast and intense, according to the track times, his 5th is fast as well, adagietto 8:25.


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## Becca

Marc said:


> I personally love the Scherzo on the slower side, not as fast as a Waltz, but more like a Ländler...
> Haitink/Berliner Phil, Bernstein/Wiener Phil, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie and Stenz/Melbourne Symphony are a few nice Scherzo examples of _nicht zu schnell_.


Given that the Barshai/JDP is 8.18 while Haitink/Berlin is 13:56, what exactly is your definition of 'slower side'?


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## bassaliens22

Kreisler jr said:


> You apparently have very particular demands.... a fast adagietto rules out many; you probably have tried Solti (fast and furious, except in the adagietto) and Kubelik (very idiomatic, IMO, but also 9-10 min. adagietto).
> I have not heard Kondrashin but his 6th and 7th are favorites of mine and they are fast and intense, according to the track times, his 5th is fast as well, adagietto 8:25.


Generally speaking, never liked Solti's Mahler. Fast and furious yes, but lacks much in the way of nuance or character. His famous Mahler 8 recording brings to mind the infamous quote regarding Wagner about glorious moments and awful half-hours. The opening chords have a drive unlike any other, only to be let down by poor structural shaping throughout the rest of the piece. The CSO is also not exactly my favorite Mahler band, even in Mahler recordings from them that I do like their brass is often really excessive.

Kubelik's Mahler is generally speaking quite wonderful, especially the Audite cycle. His first in that series is my favorite recording of Mahler 1 by a pretty large margin, and the others in it aren't slackers either. But yes, that Adagietto is simply too slow and long.

I wasn't aware Kondrashin did a 5th, I do have his Concertgebouw 7th (a great recording, but not my favorite) and his SWR 6th (ridiculously fast). I may have to check it out sometime.


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## mbhaub

bassaliens22 said:


> I haven't looked too deeply into Morris' Mahler recordings, many aren't often mentioned outside of his 10th (which I'm trying to acquire at the moment but am having a rather difficult time sourcing)


Try Tower Records in Japan.

Decades ago I picked up all of the Wyn Morris LPs and kept them. No. 2 was really special to me, as was the 10th.


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## bassaliens22

mbhaub said:


> Try Tower Records in Japan.
> 
> Decades ago I picked up all of the Wyn Morris LPs and kept them. No. 2 was really special to me, as was the 10th.


I'm aware that Tower Records carries it, but I could never figure out how to get them to ship outside of Japan. I guess a freight forwarder is needed here?


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## Marc

Becca said:


> Given that the Barshai/JDP is 8.18 while Haitink/Berlin is 13:56, what exactly is your definition of 'slower side'?


Apologies for my late reaction, but I was referring to the Scherzo, not to the Adagietto.


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## Heck148

I just listened to the Barenboim/CSO recording of M5 [Teldec '97]...it's really good!! I'd forgotten that I had it - Chicago kind of made Mahler 5 their trademark piece, after the brilliant Solti effort in 1970...they recorded it with him twice, '70 and '90 both outstanding, and then with Abbado in 1980, which may be the best of them all...

the Barenboim is very good, the main soloists [Herseth, Clevenger] are in fine shape, the recording quality is excellent...Barenboim does a fine job with the pacing, and the flow...highly recommended.


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## mbhaub

It's too bad Barenboim hasn't taken up more Mahler. Besides that excellent 5th, his 7th is really fine, too.


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## Heck148

We heard him conduct Mahler 7 at Boston Symphony Hall...it was excellent.


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