# The Secret to Chamber Music



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Apparently I haven't hit it yet.

What is it? What makes you all like it so much? Is it the texture? The number of instruments? The ideas? Something else? It can't be just the "intimacy" of the genre, as many say. I want to know the secret. I feel left out that I can't like it as much as some people on this forum. Not even with my favorite Russians composers do I like their string quartets, quintets, etc.

So I'm gonna give you all a chance to advocate for this classical genre! Give me all the reasons why you like it, maybe a recommendation. Try to convince me! I'm open.


----------



## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

What genres do you normally like?


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Webernite said:


> What genres do you normally like?


All Orchestral, including Ballet and some Opera
Solo Piano Music, which everyone says isn't chamber music


----------



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

I have found that with symphonic music as opposed to chamber music, the sound is much more sterile. All the instruments join toghether to form a more "complex" sound in an orchestra. In chamber music each instrument has its own voice and each voice is different due to the personality of the instrument and of the musician. Each instrument has a different, more raw feel to it and i feel like i can hear the soul of the musicians themselves through their instruments as opposed to it being drowned out within the many other voices until through tone saturation forms a more sterile generic tone.

I may get flamed for this because Im sure some people will say that symphonic music is just as emotionally fullfilling and just as raw and beautiful, but this is my take on it.


----------



## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> All Orchestral, including Ballet and some Opera
> Solo Piano Music, which everyone says isn't chamber music


Why don't you try some chamber music with piano, rather than string quartets, quintets, etc.?


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Apparently I haven't hit it yet.
> 
> What is it? What makes you all like it so much? Is it the texture? The number of instruments? The ideas? Something else? It can't be just the "intimacy" of the genre, as many say. I want to know the secret. I feel left out that I can't like it as much as some people on this forum. Not even with my favorite Russians composers do I like their string quartets, quintets, etc.


For me it's that I can follow the 'lines' taken by the individual instruments without losing the gestalt. BTW the Romantic Russians didn't, as a group, do string quartets real well. Tchaikovsky's sextet and Op. 50 trio work well enough...


----------



## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Have you listened to much wind chamber music? As a wind player, you might find that more interesting. I, too, struggle to find chamber music that holds my attention and I've had better luck with woodwind quintets than with string quartets. Being part of a woodwind quintet also helped change the way I listen to chamber music. Have you ever played in one?


----------



## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

I personally like chamber music because it makes me feel fancy.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

For a long time I had trouble with chamber music because I seldom like the screechy sound of a solo violin. Violas and cellos are not quite so bad, but they can be screechy too. I also dislike the overblown vibrato that was so traditional in solo strings even in my lifetime. These days the performances can be a little more tasteful I think. Whether its better recording or more scholarly research into playing styles I'm not sure, but I find I can tolerate chamber much more now as I've gotten older.

A couple of pop culture events helped to turn me around. In the movie _Immortal Beloved_ when Beethoven is talking to Schindler and asks (paraphrased) "What is music? What does it do? A man is traveling to see his paramour when his carriage breaks down. This is the sound of his agitation." And the Quartet No. 11 "Serioso" or other irritable chamber piece (I forget which) is playing. That is a transcendent moment in the movie. The other event was the use of Brahms Sextet No. 1, 2nd movement in a TV show episode (back when I watched TV -- the geeks among us know what show I'm referring to) that just blew me completely away with its powerful emotion.

So now I can listen to chamber with relish. I think it's what others have already said. You get to focus on the individual instrument lines rather than having them obscured in lush orchestral colors. I still like the large sound of lush orchestral colors a bit more perhaps, but now I can enjoy the texture of chamber pieces too. Too me it's like the difference between drawing and painting. Both are valid means of expression.

I think there may be no reason to force yourself into liking chamber though. It may come of its own accord.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

You should not force yourself to like every genre. Give it all a try, repeatedly (because our tastes do change somewhat), but accept that some genres simply will not click with you. I will never get out of piano sonatas and operas what some others get, so be it. Maybe you have a similar blind spot with chamber music.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Oh, and it might help to focus first on accessible masterpieces, such as :
- Haydn - Emperor string quartet
- Mozart - Clarinet quintet
- Beethoven - Spring violin sonata
- Schubert - String quintet
- Brahms - Clarinet quintet
- Dvorak - American string quartet


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2011)

There's no secret.

And, for Art Rock, "accessible" to whom?

Lachenmann and Xenakis are supremely accessible chamber music to me.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

The secret of chamber music doesn't necessarily lie in some key feature of the whole genre (like "intimacy") but perhaps simply in fact that a lot of masterpieces belong to this genre - you don't have to love string quartet form, it's sound per se in order to love Beethoven's 14th SQ just like you don't have to get orgasm when hearing random chord or single pitches played on piano just because it's timbre in order to love Chopin's Nocturnes.


----------



## Lipatti (Oct 9, 2010)

There is nothing special about chamber music. What I like, I like because of the sounds the instruments make - which is roughly the same I could say about any other genre in classical music, or in any kind of music generally.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

some guy said:


> There's no secret.
> 
> And, for Art Rock, "accessible" to whom?
> 
> Lachenmann and Xenakis are supremely accessible chamber music to me.


Accessible to someone not used to chamber music. I have both Lachenmann and Xenakis chamber music in my collection, but it is hardly something I would recommend to a novice. Unless of course their general taste is in that direction, which is not the case for the OP based on other posts I have seen.


----------



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Many recordings of chamber music do suffer from the fact that the listener is kept on great distance from the performers, because when they would come closer, the dynamics between very loud and almost inaudible would become a big problem for getting it right on a CD. But exactly this is the big thing in chamber music: dynamics. I've got a lot of recordings of Shostakovich's String Quartets. The Borodin Quartet on EMI probably offer the most Russian interpretation, but a new SACD recording of the Mandelring Quartet makes your stomach reverberate with the dark violincello in such a way, that this 'chamber music' becomes larger than life, like it is happening in symphonic music. Compared with this the Borodins lack body . I love the violins & especially the violincello playing on my heart-string. So my advice: look for a good recording, don't let your taste be spoiled by mediocre sound!


----------



## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Chamber music can be something that comes a little later in life. As someone who worked for most of his career with orchestras, I was immersed in orchestral repertoire - it's what I know best. As years went on, I gradually explored chamber music and slowly came to appreciate its qualities of intimacy and 'sharing'; one can far more easily feel 'connected' to the performers of chamber music than one can to orchestral musicians. Some composers saved their most intimate musical thoughts for their chamber music (Beethoven's and Shostakovich's string quartets being famous examples). 

If you are struggling to get to grips with chamber music, I would suggest starting with some larger chamber ensembles - particularly those which are like 'mini-orchestras' such as:

Beethoven - Septet in E flat Op 20
Enescu - Dectet Op 14
Ferguson - Octet
Onslow - Grand Septet in B flat Op 79; Nonet in A minor Op 77
Saint-Saëns - Septet in E flat Op 65
Schubert - Octet in F major
Spohr - Septet in A minor Op 147; Nonet in F Op 31

The perhaps try some string-only larger chamber music ensemble pieces:

Bargiel - Octet in C minor Op 15a
Brahms - Sextets in B flat Op 18 and G major Op 36
Bruch - Octet in B flat (Op posth)
Dvořák - Sextet in A Op 48
Enescu - Octet in C Op 7
Mendelssohn - Octet in E flat Op 20
Schoenberg - Verklärte Nacht
Shostakovich - 2 movements Op 11
Tchaikovsky - Souvenir de Florence


----------



## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Well, Russians you like.. Borodin 2nd SQ, Shostakovich 8th, Tchaikovsky SQ 1, sextet, piano trio for start. I'd also recommend any of Brahms chamber, but I dont know whats youre relationship with his music.
I dont think theres a secret, it's just that in this genre there is so beautiful music, not because of the instrumentation. But if you like for example string orchestra (the lousy brother of the string quartet (or double bass quintet)) why cant you enjoy SQs? there's no difference in the instrumentation only in the quantity


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Thank you all for your advice and recommendations. 



Weston said:


> For a long time I had trouble with chamber music because I seldom like the screechy sound of a solo violin.


That's it. That's also the reason why I don't like too many violin concertos. I dislike the ones that use too much glissando between notes, or grating sounds.

Going back to older questions people asked...

Yes, I've listened to a lot of chamber music, all sorts from all eras, mostly through radio. Of the ones I can like, the Ravel SQ is maybe favorite. For that, it's a combination of ideas (there's a good recurring theme throughout), and the texture (a bit impressionist) that pleases me.

I've listened to piano chamber music too, and even though it's piano, I feel it's too minimized in its role (I love piano with character).

I've also listened to wind quintets too. Interesting to note how many of them the flute is taken out and replaced with another oboe or clarinet.  Perhaps the flute is too piercing in the texture... but anyways, they're fine I guess, but I never remember them as significant with ideas.
One piece I thought was really neat was Ponchielli's Piano quartet, with Piano, flute, oboe, and clarinet. Each individual had more role by itself, including the piano.

And, last, I do like String Orchestra, like Serenade for Strings by Dvorak, and Tchaikovsky.

I'll see what I can do.  I won't turn off the radio the next time I hear a chamber work come on, and I'll think about the ideas a bit more.


----------



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I am exactly the opposite. the crispy and screechy sound of violin is what the most pure acoustic I enjoy. I use to imagine a chamber music is what a band in today. where young musician making friend and socialize in their home playing music together.

Prokofiev String quartet no.1 and no.2 is a good start, if you are a fan of him.


----------



## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

jurianbai said:


> I use to imagine a chamber music is what a band in today. where young musician making friend and socialize in their home playing music together.


For some of us, it still is.  I was in a woodwind quintet in high school and we rehearsed in the flute player's living room and had a wonderful time together. I have fond memories of playing chamber music with friends.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Meaghan said:


> For some of us, it still is.  I was in a woodwind quintet in high school and we rehearsed in the flute player's living room and had a wonderful time together. I have fond memories of playing chamber music with friends.


That's completely foreign to me. I've never done even a duet with another player besides my flute teacher, I've never met someone my equal. But maybe that will soon change with college.

ayy Fridays.


----------



## Stasou (Apr 23, 2011)

You ought to listen to this. 



 It is incredible. I would agree with the others when they suggest listening to larger chamber ensembles first.


----------



## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

I agree with the poster who likes the "raw" unblended sound of a chamber ensemble - This is something I really appreciate.
When I first started getting into Classical I was'nt that taken by Chamber Music and have really only come to like it in the last year and a half or so. The turning point for me was listening to Beethoven's Chamber Music - In particular the String Quartets which are such masterpieces!.
I don't think there is anything wrong with not liking chamber music either! - As a suggestion I think you would enjoy Bach's Flute Sonatas if you have'nt heard them already


----------



## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

In my humble opinion, one must be introduce to Schubert's chamber works in order to appreciate the beauty and intimacy of chamber music. For me, Schubert is the greatest composer for the small ensemble.

I suggest you start and explore the following works.
*
1. Piano Quintet ''The Trout" * - the most popular chamber music composition, the Trout Quintet continues to delight the whole world with its infectious and catchy melodies. All of the 5 movements are brilliant.

*2.Arppeggione Sonata* - This work which was primarily played with a cello is full of Schubert's lyricism and beautiful melodies. Melancholy and joy tinged this piece.

*3. Piano Trio no. 1 in B flat and Piano Trio in E flat* - These works in the piano trio genre are some of the greatest written in the genre. They ranked together with Beethoven's Archduke in greatness.

The first one is carefree and full of heartwarming melodies, while the second one is contemplative and moody.

Buy the Beaux Arts Trio.. Magnificent!

*4. String Quartet no. 14 '' Death and the Maiden''* - Schubert's greatest string quartet composition, is one of the most popular and finest in the genre. It even rival Beethoven's late quartets in importance and popularity.

This work is haunting and glorious! The theme of death is palpable on the 4 movements, and Schubert's skillful use of distant keys and modulations is exhilirating!

*5.Sting Quintet in C Major* - The greatest chamber music composition and the pinnacle of Schubert's chamber works, the quintet is a masterpiece in every sense of word.

Instead of using two violas, Schubert doubled the cellos, creating a sound, rich in sonority and heartbreak. This quintet is a must-listen to a classical music fan.

*I wonder what Schubert would compose if he had given the normal time to live.. He died at 31. Too young for such an unsung genius.*


----------



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Maybe it's the sound of raw solo strings, whereas en masse the sound mushes together and all the vibrato gives the impression of more sonority.

Try some saxophone quartets.

I've heard a few good pieces in this format recently. Christopher Fox was one of the composers and the Amstel and Delta Quartets were two of the ensembles but I can't remember the others. 

I also heard a great piece for a few Jews harps by Endre Olsvay, but I doubt you'd like it.


----------



## haydnfan (Apr 13, 2011)

The polyphonic texture of chamber music, and the more abstract quality makes it less accessible than orchestral. It is worth the effort, they key is to listen like you're new to it, listen repeatedly and too many different works in different eras. You'll get the hang of it. And it is worth the effort. Start with your favorite composer, and listen, listen, listen, listen to the chamber works until you hear the same voice that you hear in the orchestral works. Then you've found the heart of the music and then you'll be willing to embrace the differences between chamber and orchestral.


----------

