# Best Queen of the Night?



## DavidA

The Queen of the Night is a high octane role in Die Zauberflote, which Mozart wrote for his sister-in-law. She must have been some singer!
Diana Damrau here makes a really terrifying Queen in her second aria. A real spitfire.






Any other contenders?


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## davidglasgow

Lucia Popp made a terrific recording with Klemperer


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## nina foresti

Dessay


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## BalalaikaBoy

Edda Moser, hands down. The queen of the night is supposed to be una cagna sinistra (stupid language filter...), not a song bird. She isn't supposed to sound "pretty", she's supposed to sound FIERCE.


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## Rogerx

Christina Deutekom - Der Hölle Rache (Studio) number one, closely followed by Lucia Popp.


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## The Conte

Lucia Popp is a good one, as is Rita Streich. I might have a Queen of the Night off later...

N.


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## wkasimer

The Conte said:


> Lucia Popp is a good one, as is Rita Streich. I might have a Queen of the Night off later...


No question that these are both wonderful pieces of singing, but count me with those who prefer a bigger sound, a more dramatioc KdN, like Moser and Deutekom.


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## The Conte

wkasimer said:


> No question that these are both wonderful pieces of singing, but count me with those who prefer a bigger sound, a more dramatioc KdN, like Moser and Deutekom.


I haven't heard Moser and Deutekom, so will give them a whirl.


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## wkasimer

The Conte said:


> I haven't heard Moser and Deutekom, so will give them a whirl.


Deutekom recorded the role on Solti's first recording, still one of my favorites.

Moser recorded a spectacular Mozart recital for Electrola:


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## The Conte

I've had a good listen to various KdNs and whilst I understand what people see in the more substantial voices of Moser and Deutekom I prefer my Queen of the Night to sing _all_ the notes.

The overall winner for me is Cheryl Studer, with Lucia Popp a very close second. I also like Sutherland and Streich.

N.


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## superhorn

Actually , the best by far is the inimitable Florence Foster Jenkins !


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## ldiat

superhorn said:


> Actually , the best by far is the inimitable Florence Foster Jenkins !


OMG I have to agree..................NOT! but funny:lol:


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## aussiebushman

superhorn said:


> Actually , the best by far is the inimitable Florence Foster Jenkins !


Anyone not familiar with Florence Foster Jenkins is in for a bit of an education! Be warned though - you may never listen to opera again.


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## arpeggio

There can be only one?


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## Rogerx

arpeggio said:


> There can be only one?


You can have as much as you like.


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## Seattleoperafan

I love the weight and power of Sutherland's voice, but her F's are not her glory notes.


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## DavidA

Note someone has made it easy for us.

To me it's Damrau


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## Tsaraslondon

Edda Moser for me too.

I love Lucia Popp, and she sings it wonderfully, but she doesn't sound so dangerous. Moser really gets across the Queen's rage!


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## akhchew

For me it's Roberta Peters.


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## Seattleoperafan

akhchew said:


> For me it's Roberta Peters.


It is hard to argue with this!!!!!!!! She's gorgeous, acts and sings it perfectly. I was not prepared for how gutsy her voice sounded in this. Does anyone know, was she a Jewess? So many Met stars of the day were.


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## BalalaikaBoy

akhchew said:


> For me it's Roberta Peters.


ooo! she might have moved up to #3 or #2 on my list. more NASTINESS than I was expecting


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## Star

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is hard to argue with this!!!!!!!! She's gorgeous, acts and sings it perfectly. I was not prepared for how gutsy her voice sounded in this. * Does anyone know, was she a Jewess? So many Met stars of the day were.*




Peters was born Roberta Peterman in The Bronx, New York City, the only child of Ruth (née Hersch), a milliner, and Solomon Peterman,. Yes her family was Jewish. Wow! What a rendering of this aria. She is definitely up there with the very best. you can hear her pin point coloratura as well in Leinsdorf's recording of Barber of Seville by Rossini.


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## Star

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love the weight and power of Sutherland's voice, but her F's are not her glory notes.


I am an admirerer of Sutherland but to me she has the wrong voice for the part - too weighty and grand where it should be sharp and cutting. Just an opinion though.


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## Star

GregMitchell said:


> Edda Moser for me too.
> 
> I love Lucia Popp, and she sings it wonderfully, *but she doesn't sound so dangerous*. Moser really gets across the Queen's rage!


Yes to me Popp is hindered by Klemperer's slow tempo, well though she sings it. To me the three who combine vocal brilliance with a sense of danger are Damrau, Peter's and Moser. Thanks to everyone for posting the examples. Most enjoyable.


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## Star

Of course, there is this. Not a serious contender but amusing. With apologies to Diana Damrau


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## gardibolt

I wish Callas had done a Magic Flute--the darkness of her voice would have been perfect for the role; the little snippets she sings of Der Hölle Rache in the Julliard master classes are pretty amazing.


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## Woodduck

gardibolt said:


> I wish Callas had done a Magic Flute--the darkness of her voice would have been perfect for the role; the little snippets she sings of Der Hölle Rache in the Julliard master classes are pretty amazing.


I don't think Callas had a high F. She'd have had to transpose down a whole tone. In any case I can't imagine her finding the role interesting.


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## PlaySalieri

Rogerx said:


> Christina Deutekom - Der Hölle Rache (Studio) number one, closely followed by Lucia Popp.


If you like your Queen singing under water.


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## PlaySalieri

gardibolt said:


> I wish Callas had done a Magic Flute--the darkness of her voice would have been perfect for the role; the little snippets she sings of Der Hölle Rache in the Julliard master classes are pretty amazing.


Im a huge callas fan but her voice is unsuited to this role, and indeed Mozart in my view.


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## Tsaraslondon

stomanek said:


> Im a huge callas fan but her voice is unsuited to this role, and indeed Mozart in my view.


By the time she made her commercial recording of Mozart arias, it was too late, but the test recording she made of Donna Anna's _Non mi dir_, and the concert performances of Costanze's _Martern aller Arten_ (sung in Italian as _Tutte le torture_) would suggest otherwise. In fact she was La Scala's first ever Costanze in a 1952 production of the opera.

The Queen of the Night would have been a bit too high for her, though, and Callas was not one to accept transpositions. She was offered the role a few times, but (wisely, no doubt) refused it.


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## amfortas

stomanek said:


> Im a huge callas fan but her voice is unsuited to this role, and indeed Mozart in my view.


I agree. Mozart would have made a terrible Queen of the Night.

But I could see him singing Wagner . . .


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## Woodduck

amfortas said:


> I agree. Mozart would have made a terrible Queen of the Night.
> 
> But I could see him singing Wagner . . .


In what role? .............


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## ldiat

i still like Diana..and she ranks right up there with all:kiss:


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## Rogerx

This is a moment better keeping still.


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## amfortas

Woodduck said:


> In what role? .............


Maybe Parsifal. He's got some of that "holy fool" about him.


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## Star

This purports to be Callas but I think it's actual Popp. Anyone help here?


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## Star

amfortas said:


> Maybe Parsifal. He's got some of that "holy fool" about him.


You've been watching Amadeus!


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## Mal

Natalie Dessay, great performance, not sure about the dress:





.


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## Mal

Elizabeth Vidal puts in a good performance, with orchestra & gas lighting, in a better dress:






She also puts in a good performance, In English, in the Chandos Magic Flute (Wikipedia tells me her mother was English...)


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## amfortas

Star said:


> This purports to be Callas but I think it's actual Popp. Anyone help here?


If that's Callas, so is this.


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## Woodduck

Star said:


> This purports to be Callas but I think it's actual Popp. Anyone help here?


Sounds like Popp to me.


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## Barelytenor

^That extra little sheen and shimmer that you hear in Popp's voice is what makes me love her so much. Although I love some of the others posted here, particularly Edda Moser and the cluckatura soprano Cristina Deutekom. As for Elizabeth Vidal, those are some mighty impressive ... uh, melismas!

Interestingly (at least_ à moi)_, in my OCD filing system, Dessay, Deutekom, and di Donato all butt right up against one another. What are the odds?

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Tsaraslondon

Woodduck said:


> Sounds like Popp to me.


It is Popp. There is no record of Callas ever singing any of the Queen of the Night's music.


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## Woodduck

I gather that Birgit Nilsson used to sing the Queen's arias at parties. She never sang a high F on stage, but whatever key she sang it in, it must have been pretty fearsome.


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## The Conte

GregMitchell said:


> It is Popp. There is no record of Callas ever singing any of the Queen of the Night's music.


Aren't there snippets of her singing it in the recordings of the Juliard masterclasses?

N.


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## Woodduck

Barelytenor said:


> Interestingly (at least_ à moi)_, in my OCD filing system, Dessay, Deutekom, and di Donato all butt right up against one another. What are the odds?


Obviously Donizetti had in them in mind with his three queens butting up against one another.


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## The Conte

Woodduck said:


> Obviously Donizetti had in them in mind with his three queens butting up against one another.


I'm not so sure about that. However, that's a great idea for a new thread...


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## aussiebushman

Barelytenor said:


> ^That extra little sheen and shimmer that you hear in Popp's voice is what makes me love her so much. George


Completely agree. Her Janacek is (not surprisingly) brilliant. I have less experience of her singing Italian opera roles but regardless, the voice is wonderful


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## Tsaraslondon

The Conte said:


> Aren't there snippets of her singing it in the recordings of the Juliard masterclasses?
> 
> N.


That's true. I'd forgotten about the masterclasses. But, as you say, snippets only.


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## Tsaraslondon

Barelytenor said:


> ^That extra little sheen and shimmer that you hear in Popp's voice is what makes me love her so much.


I agree, but I'm not sure it's what the role of the Queen of the Night requires. Rather like De Los Angeles, I just can't imagine the lovely Ms Popp ever being mean to anyone.

:tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl




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## Woodduck

Fritz Kobus said:


>


Excellent. Who is that?

I've always wondered why the high coloratura part of this sounds so cheerful. It must be an 18th-century thing. Haydn's masses can have very happy "Kyries."


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## SixFootScowl

Woodduck said:


> Excellent. Who is that?
> 
> I've always wondered why the high coloratura part of this sounds so cheerful. It must be an 18th-century thing. Haydn's masses can have very happy "Kyries."


Ana Durlovski. Here is the Amazon link to the DVD of it. I just discovered here is my new Sonnambula DVD and she is totally captivating in appearance, voice, and acting.


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## DavidA

Fritz Kobus said:


>


Quite a costume!


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## Merl

I'm not a big opera fan but this is a favourite of mine. Lucia Popp for me (at the moment).


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## aussiebushman

Merle - we need to do some gentle conversion work on you!

Opera can be an acquired taste and it is very easy to gain wrong impressions by listening to works that alien to whatever musical styles you already enjoy.

If you have found pleasure in listening to Lucia Popp, Wikipedia lists all of the Popp recordings here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Popp and there is an excellent biography here: http://www.diarci.com/2014/04/27/the-rule-of-threes-lucia-popp-arlene-auger-and-tatiana-troyanos/

I suggest that rather than jump into complete operas, try a selection of excepts/highlights - many of which are available on YouTube


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## gardibolt

GregMitchell said:


> That's true. I'd forgotten about the masterclasses. But, as you say, snippets only.


Those snippets are so tantalizing from what little we do hear, so I think it would have been astonishing---but as pointed out above, it apparently goes well out of her range.


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## Rogerx

aussiebushman said:


> Merle - we need to do some gentle conversion work on you!
> 
> Opera can be an acquired taste and it is very easy to gain wrong impressions by listening to works that alien to whatever musical styles you already enjoy.
> 
> _If you have found pleasure in listening to Lucia Popp, Wikipedia lists all of the Popp recordings here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Popp and there is an excellent biography here: http://www.diarci.com/2014/04/27/the-rule-of-threes-lucia-popp-arlene-auger-and-tatiana-troyanos/_
> 
> I suggest that rather than jump into complete operas, try a selection of excepts/highlights - many of which are available on YouTube


Great article, one remark, Schwarzkopf said the same thing about hearing Deutekom.


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## Merl

aussiebushman said:


> Merle - we need to do some gentle conversion work on you!
> 
> Opera can be an acquired taste and it is very easy to gain wrong impressions by listening to works that alien to whatever musical styles you already enjoy.
> 
> If you have found pleasure in listening to Lucia Popp, Wikipedia lists all of the Popp recordings here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Popp and there is an excellent biography here: http://www.diarci.com/2014/04/27/the-rule-of-threes-lucia-popp-arlene-auger-and-tatiana-troyanos/
> 
> I suggest that rather than jump into complete operas, try a selection of excepts/highlights - many of which are available on YouTube


I didn't say I didn't like opera. I have a number of opera highlights and a few other full recordings (Carmen, etc) but I much prefer fully orchestral music. Who knows, in the next few years I may turn into TC's most enthusiastic opera buff but for now I'll happily just listen to a select few and dip my feet in operatic waters occasionally.


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## ldiat




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## Rogerx

[1962 original pitch] Joan Sutherland - O zittre nicht, mein lieber Sohn!


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## ldiat

well mayb not the best..........


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## Lensky

1) *Edda Moser* of course

2) *Christina Deutekom*


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## ldiat




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## ldiat

just listened to a car AD on TV(Volvo) and part of the "Queen of the Night" is using/ "singing" for the AD


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## Guest

I have never met a Jenkins admirer who wasn't deeply aware of her issues. Far from it: because she was so incomparable, we hear them all the more but place them in proper perspective. Most other singers' virtues and deficiencies are not important enough to compare and contrast.

No one is ignoring her faults, but it is unsettling to have people claim that the usual 'faults' are there when they are not. Moreover, why harp on Jenkins' problems when every singer, without a glimmer of Jenkins' musicianship, have just as many, and more glaring, faults of their own that no one seems interested in discussing? Isn't it better to learn from Jenkins what no other singer--or perhaps musician--of the 20th century can teach us about music, rather than concentrating on mechanical vocal nitpicking?

I am not even referring to the 'wobble' which was always an issue, whether is was a technical lacuna or a physical inconsistency that went unresolved as she continued to overstress her voice--both types of issue which can be found in many singers. Jenkins' real problems were the loss of concentrated core sound resulting in an unsupported middle and upper registers, the bottoming out of the chest register, the clouding up of her vowels, the new shrillness and smearing of passages on top.

She was not a mezzo or she could never have achieved for decades what she did with a healthy voice in the soprano rep, unmatched by anyone .The placement of all the notes in her scale--her register breaks, indicate that she was indeed a soprano: just compare her with a real mezzo like Simionato.

After all, I doubt one would call Rosa Ponselle a mezzo, the singer whose voice was most like Jenkins', though without inconsistent vocal health nor Jenkins' overdoing it (isn't it Ponselle who said "sing only one high C a week"?) nor, of course, Jenkins' artistic transcendence. By the time Jenkins started singing mezzo music, it was because her top was gone--even for the mezzo rep, as it turns out. 
The placement of registral shifts, however, still indicates a soprano, not a mezzo.

I read (or heard) an interesting comment recently about how voice type doesn't depend on colour of the voice, but rather on range. Whereas I think the opposite is true. Voice type depends on the colour of the voice. If somebody is singing with their natural colour then you can work out what the range of that voice will be (even if they are in the early stages of training and they only have an octave in range at that point!) I admit it is astonishing that Jenkins as a soprano did what she did and it seems madness to suggest a mezzo could do so, but another singer who had as wide a range of notes at their disposal and who has often been compared with Jenkins, Giuditta Pasta, was considered by Stendhal to be a mezzo...

I agree that her voice was different from Simionato, but was Simionato more a contralto than a mezzo? It is possible that the vocal decline was due to early menopause or a combination of things . I'm just more convinced by the mezzo Jenkins theory. Her timbre says it all.

Those who 'get' Jenkins are usually willing to hear past the vocal ruin. But in the last few years, I've had serious problems listening to most of the post-1928 material because she had already recorded much of it while she had an amazing voice, and the comparison is alarming. The greater percentage of what is regarded as 'expanded interpretive insight' in later recordings is really a desperate re-tooling the music to suit her failing voice, for which she would have excoriated any other singer during her good years.

Editorial note: This post has dual authorship. RES originally wrote everything contained within the body of the post about Maria Callas and my contribution consists entirely of substituting the name "Jenkins" for "Callas"... oh yeah, and I was the one who posted the video - he gets like ZERO credit for that...

- Syd


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## Stallo

Sumi Jo.

Petya Ivanova.

Edda Moser.

In that order.


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## SixFootScowl




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## BalalaikaBoy

I'm disappointed. So many of y'all like these chirpy lil bimbos with zero vocal weight, fierceness or venom. There are plenty of roles appropriate for light, canary coloraturas. QotN is not one of them.


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## SixFootScowl

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'm disappointed. So many of y'all like these chirpy lil bimbos with zero vocal weight, fierceness or venom. There are plenty of roles appropriate for light, canary coloraturas. QotN is not one of them.


Right, she is too bright for a Queen of the Night. I should have posted her in the sopranos thread.


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## Woodduck

She also transposes it down to Eb, yet only reaches a D. She does get a bit of ferocity into it though.


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## ldiat

Fritz Kobus said:


>


OMG i have not listen of heard her name for years!! WOW!


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## SixFootScowl

ldiat said:


> OMG i have not listen of heard her name for years!! WOW!


Yep, main reason I posted it was I had never heard of her and figure worth a listen. But my top Queen of the Night, whom I have posted in this thread before but bears repeating, is Ana Durlovsky:


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## RockyIII

I think Damrau is at the top of the list, but of the Die Zauberflöte recordings that I have owned, I really like Erika Miklósa on the Abbado album from 2006.


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## ldiat

RockyIII said:


> I think Damrau is at the top of the list, but of the Die Zauberflöte recordings that I have owned, I really like Erika Miklósa on the Abbado album from 2006.


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## BalalaikaBoy

RockyIII said:


> I think Damrau is at the top of the list, but of the Die Zauberflöte recordings that I have owned, I really like Erika Miklósa on the Abbado album from 2006.


I like Damrau's interpretation because, even though she's a lighter voice, she captures the NASTINESS of the role and revels in playing the villain. most Queen of the Nights nowadays sound like a high school girl at a Catholic school giving a recital and caring more about being a perfectionist than really making the music breathe.


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## ldiat




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## The Conte

Damrau is possibly the best from a technical point of view (all the notes are sung and can be distinguished as individual notes, whilst not detracting from their place in the whole phrase). However, I agree with those who want more substance to the voice of their KdN. Whilst that extra texture is provided by Deutekom and Moser, there technique isn't up to the ornaments as written. Popp and Streich join Damrau at being able to actually sing the second act aria. The best mix of substance and technique comes from Cheryl Studer who sounds forceful and dangerous (to a degree), but also has the technique to sing everything including those tricky acciacaturas.

N.


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## ldiat




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## ldiat




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## flamencosketches

ldiat said:


>


I came into this thread to suggest her. Man is she great on the Böhm Zauberflöte I have. In fact, the whole cast is stellar. Can't imagine a better Tamino than Wunderlich.


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## SixFootScowl




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## asiago12

Incredible voices...


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## Seattleoperafan

The one I most would have liked to have heard was Nilsson singing it after a night singing Isolde. Can you imagine! She did it.


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## Woodduck

Seattleoperafan said:


> The one I most would have liked to have heard was Nilsson singing it after a night singing Isolde. Can you imagine! She did it.


If her voice had been more flexible she might have sung the role. The effect could have been suitably scary, a hybrid of Turandot and Elektra with coloratura.


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## Rogerx

asiago12 said:


> Incredible voices...


Witch ones did you like the most?


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## asiago12

Maria Callas ( queen of the night was not her prefered performance) ..Diana Damrau...Joan Sutherland ..


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## Tsaraslondon

asiago12 said:


> Maria Callas ( queen of the night was not her prefered performance) ..Diana Damrau...Joan Sutherland ..


But, as I've pointed out in the other thread, Callas never sang the Queen of the Night, nor any of her arias. The closest we have is a few bars from the arias in a couplle of Juilliard master classes.


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## Fredrikalansson

Have a listen to Sylvia Gestzy on the Dresden recording conducted by Otmar Suitner. Maybe a little stretched at the top, and not pin-point for accuracy, but unmatched for ferocity in Holle Rache. The recording of the opera (I think currently available from Berlin Classics) is a bit of a mixed bag, but still has many wonderful things. Gestzy really understands that the Queen of the Night is a truly nasty piece of work.


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## Rogerx

I prefer Popp, Moser or Gruberova.


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## DavidA

ldiat said:


>


Great singing. Pity about the idiot production!


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## RES

Accidentally placed post deleted by author.


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## RES

Accidentally placed post deleted by author


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## RES

Sydney Nova Scotia said:


> Editorial note: This post has dual authorship. RES originally wrote everything contained within the body of the post about Maria Callas and my contribution consists entirely of substituting the name "Jenkins" for "Callas"... oh yeah, and I was the one who posted the video - he gets like ZERO credit for that...
> 
> - Syd


I got your PM about my possibly being miffed at this. No worries. It's very funny. Oddly, there was no spot to reply in the PM so I'm saying that here. I haven't been on TC since before you wrote the above or the PM so I haven't seen either until now. Ciao, RES


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## Phil in Magnolia

DavidA said:


> The Queen of the Night is a high octane role in Die Zauberflote, which Mozart wrote for his sister-in-law. She must have been some singer!
> Diana Damrau here makes a really terrifying Queen in her second aria. A real spitfire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other contenders?







I agree with Diana Damrau, my own favorite is this performance recorded at the Grosses Festspielhaus in Salzburg, Austria in 2006.

(apologies to Idiat - I posted this before noticing that you had also posted the exact same performance!!)


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## ldiat

Phil in Magnolia said:


> I agree with Diana Damrau, my own favorite is this performance recorded at the Grosses Festspielhaus in Salzburg, Austria in 2006.
> 
> (apologies to Idiat - I posted this before noticing that you had also posted the exact same performance!!)


No Problem! i listen to Her again!!


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## ldiat




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## ldiat




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## Josquin13

A young Arleen Auger makes the aria sound easy:






On recordings, I've liked Sylvia Geszty with one of my favorite Mozart orchestras, the Staatskapelle Dresden, under the baton of Otmar Suitner:


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## ldiat




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## Baritenor

Beautiful:


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## IgorS

Baritenor, Seems like we have a winner!


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## ldiat




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## Kjetil Heggelund

I'm listening to some opera these days (most other days, not so). I think I liked Diana Damrau and Roberta Peters the most. They looked and sounded almost terrifying! YEY


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## Rogerx

]

Who Sang The "Queen Of The Night" Staccatos The Best?


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## ldiat

Rogerx said:


> ]
> 
> Who Sang The "Queen Of The Night" Staccatos The Best?


my best. Diana Damrau


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## Phantoms of the Opera

For me it will always be my teacher, Rae Woodland.

This is a bootlegged recording from a concert performance in the Royal Albert Hall:


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## ldiat




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## pianozach

Deeply saddened that no one has mentioned the *Marmot of the Night*.


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## pianozach

*All in one place

Who Sang The "Queen Of The Night" Staccatos The Best?

*


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## Seattleoperafan

ldiat said:


>


This is world class plus she was likely the most beautiful Queen.


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## Seattleoperafan

Wendy Weller is notable for not only having perhaps the best figure of any Queen, but for having next to Sutherland the second largest voice to sing her majesty. She sang many jugendlich-dramatische roles including Salome.


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## Seattleoperafan

The queen I would have most liked to have heard was Nilsson. Likely not the best, but noteworthy because she could sing one of the queen's arias after having sung Isolde. The is supposed to have been a recording done for the Met Opera Intermission feature.


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## Woodduck

Seattleoperafan said:


> The queen I would have most liked to have heard was Nilsson. Likely not the best, but noteworthy because she could sing one of the queen's arias after having sung Isolde. The is supposed to have been a recording done for the Met Opera Intermission feature.


I'd like to have heard her do it at the post-Tristan cast party, but not onstage. If everyone were drunk her coloratura would fit right in.


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## ldiat




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## VitellioScarpia

The most satisfying for me is Edda Moser. She does not sound like a whistle and has the ability to project anger and imperiousness vocally. Listen for example to her _Sarastro wird erblassen!_


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## ldiat




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## pianozach

ldiat said:


>


OMFG!

Words fail me.


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## The Conte

ldiat said:


>


I love the Queen of the Night as a spider woman, but why is Pamina in her underwear?

N.


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## ldiat

pianozach said:


> OMFG!
> 
> Words fail me.


i agree with this!


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## ldiat

The Conte said:


> I love the Queen of the Night as a spider woman, but why is Pamina in her underwear?
> 
> N.


may be its "R" rated!!


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## VitellioScarpia

ldiat said:


> may be its "R" rated!!


It is not R rated: it is an _effing_ lunatic asylum under the influence of some really good LSD!


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## ldiat

i am going to post this you tube video here. there is a short version w/ "queen of the night". but it is a very different version of the Magic Flute. has any one watched this one??? i did not know were else to post. its just short cuts of the opera.


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## VitellioScarpia

ldiat said:


> i am going to post this you tube video here. there is a short version w/ "queen of the night". but it is a very different version of the Magic Flute. has any one watched this one??? i did not know were else to post. its just short cuts of the opera.


Intersting. Do you know if it is available in YouTube complete? I would like to see it complete to get a real view. I searched but I did not find a complete copy.


----------



## ldiat

VitellioScarpia said:


> Intersting. Do you know if it is available in YouTube complete? I would like to see it complete to get a real view. I searched but I did not find a complete copy.


i could not find any other either. i'll look later again.


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## The Conte

ldiat said:


> i am going to post this you tube video here. there is a short version w/ "queen of the night". but it is a very different version of the Magic Flute. has any one watched this one??? i did not know were else to post. its just short cuts of the opera.


It looks like a trailer for a Magic Flute that was on in London a few years back. It was put on in one of the general theatres where they normally do plays, but I didn't go to see it. I love the overture played on percussion and some of the songs work really well in that style. I thought the Queen of the Night aria sounded very strange in that musical context, though.

N.


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## SixFootScowl




----------



## IgorS

Frieda Hempel


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## ldiat




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## ldiat

Erika Miklósa - Der Hölle Rache (Queen of the Night) - Minkowski


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## Seattleoperafan

If you like a really big voice singing the Queen of the Night it would be hard to find a better one than Wendy Waller, who also has sung Turandot, Salome, Sieglinde and Norma. Her mother was a dramatic soprano who once was my sister's roommate back in the 60's. She also is very tall and beautiful with a gorgeous figure.


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## ldiat

Elena Mosuc sings: Mozart "Der Hölle Rache"


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## ldiat

LANI MISALUCHA - Magic Flute (Shangri-La Plaza | July 7, 2018)


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## The Conte

ldiat said:


> LANI MISALUCHA - Magic Flute (Shangri-La Plaza | July 7, 2018)


I have no idea what this is, but it certainly isn't 'Best Queen of the Night'!

N.


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## adrian1982

I saw Diana Damrau in Covent Garden some years ago. Breath taking!


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## ldiat

The Conte said:


> I have no idea what this is, but it certainly isn't 'Best Queen of the Night'!
> 
> N.


i knew that but it was different!


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## ldiat




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## Seattleoperafan

Rogerx said:


> Christina Deutekom - Der Hölle Rache (Studio) number one, closely followed by Lucia Popp.


I just discovered her and this blew me away. I don't know how well I would like her unique technique in general, but here it works very dramatically.


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## MAS

Seattleoperafan said:


> I just discovered her and this blew me away. I don't know how well I would like her unique technique in general, but here it works very dramatically.


I never could figure out how she does it!

She sang in San Francisco in the 1970s?, *Norma*, substituting for Montserrat Caballe - she was the best I'd seen (including Sutherland). However, I don't recall if she displayed any of that unique coloratura in her performances then. She was a very good *Norma* and her voice was sizeable and her interpretation fiery, and she handled all of role's demands superbly. Very much the school of Callas.


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## Seattleoperafan

MAS said:


> I never could figure out how she does it!
> 
> She sang in San Francisco in the 1970s?, *Norma*, substituting for Montserrat Caballe - she was the best I'd seen (including Sutherland). However, I don't recall if she displayed any of that unique coloratura in her performances then. She was a very good *Norma* and her voice was sizeable and her interpretation fiery, and she handled all of role's demands superbly. Very much the school of Callas.


When you are a fanatic one can overlook other great singers. Thanks for leading me to her, who I had heard of but never paid any attention to.


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## MAS

Seattleoperafan said:


> When you are a fanatic one can overlook other great singers. Thanks for leading me to her, who I had heard of but never paid any attention to.


No problem, SOF, one car hardly know everyone! 
Here's my favorite:






I like her ferocity, and the throwing-herself-into-it quality of fearlessness about her.


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## Woodduck

^^^Moser gets my vote. She singes the hair off your arms.


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## VitellioScarpia

Woodduck said:


> ^^^Moser gets my vote. She singes the hair off your arms.


The most fiery of the Queens I have heard.


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## Tsaraslondon

Seattleoperafan said:


> I just discovered her and this blew me away. I don't know how well I would like her unique technique in general, but here it works very dramatically.


She does have a very weird way of executing the coloratura, introducing what amounts to an intrusive 'w' rather than aspirating. I saw her once as Amelia in *Un Ballo in Maschera*. It was in a relatively small theate (Theatre Royal, Newcastle) and the voice was easily big enough there, though to be honest what I remembered most was a surfeit of blue eyeshadow.

She is on the first two recordings in Philips early Verdi series (*I Lombardi* and *Attila*) but I don't think she was particularly successful as either Griselda or Odabella, the voice too pallid and monochromatic, though she manages the coloratura well enough. After those first two recordings, Philips turned to Caballé, Ricciarelli and later Sass for the principal soprano roles and I wonder if Gardelli had his doubts too.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Excuse me if this was already posted (I have not followed the thread that closely), but it looks like a nice compilation and discussion of Queens of the Night:


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## SixFootScowl

Is there a thread for Worst Queen of the Night? If so, this one gets it.


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## ldiat

SixFootScowl said:


> Is there a thread for Worst Queen of the Night? If so, this one gets it.


mayb this one also!!


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## Woodduck

^^^ She just needs to get off the stage and go back to studying. Good luck to her.


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## The Conte

Worst Queen of the Night?

See you, raise you!






N.


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## Seattleoperafan

Leave it to me to muddy the waters with this rock version of the Queen of the Night, but it is amazing that Edson Cordeiro can sing it and sing it well if if it is not exactly the original key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think any men could sing it in the original key except for Dimash, who is without classification. 



 The mix with The Rolling Stones song is brilliant!!!!


----------



## MAS

Seattleoperafan said:


> Leave it to me to muddy the waters with this rock version of the Queen of the Night, but it is amazing that Edson Cordeiro can sing it and sing it well in the original key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many counter tenors can sing F6 except for Dimash, who is without classification.
> 
> 
> 
> The mix with The Rolling Stones song is brilliant!!!!


That's an F6? Sounded lower to me - but I don't have perfect pitch, so...grain of salt.


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## Seattleoperafan

MAS said:


> That's an F6? Sounded lower to me - but I don't have perfect pitch, so...grain of salt.


You have shamed me. I checked and it is a D, which if you aren't Dimash, is about the upper limit for most men, which is as high as I have heard Franco Fagioli sing, and he is a freak. I guess transposing in rock is not such a big deal for the listeners. Still, it is a very fun take on the piece in my humble opinion. I have had to edit the original post for accuracy thanks to you.


----------



## MAS

Seattleoperafan said:


> You have shamed me. I checked and it is a D, which if you aren't Dimash, is about the upper limit for most men, which is as high as I have heard Franco Fagioli sing, and he is a freak. I guess transposing in rock is not such a big deal for the listeners. Still, it is a very fun take on the piece in my humble opinion. I have had to edit the original post for accuracy thanks to you.


Sorry, Sesttleoperafan, it wasn't meant that way. In the context of rock or pop music, I can't tell at all.


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## Seattleoperafan

MAS said:


> Sorry, Sesttleoperafan, it wasn't meant that way. In the context of rock or pop music, I can't tell at all.


I didn't take it in a negative way. I am impressed with how the rock song meshed so well with Mozart, something you wouldn't expect!!! I just hadn't realized it was in D instead of F. Have a fun day.


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## ldiat

still the best!!


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## ldiat




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## ldiat




----------



## Barelytenor

ldiat said:


>


The images are of Callas but the unmistakable voice is that of the great Lucia Popp.


----------



## Tsaraslondon

Barelytenor said:


> The images are of Callas but the unmistakable voice is that of the great Lucia Popp.


Oh gosh! This has been circulating on youtube for ages. I can't imagine how anyone could get two such distinctive voices mixed up.


----------



## ldiat

Barelytenor said:


> The images are of Callas but the unmistakable voice is that of the great Lucia Popp.


explain why this has happened? and Why this is? i just would like to know. So Callas never sang this aria??


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## Tsaraslondon

ldiat said:


> explain why this has happened? and Why this is? i just would like to know. So Callas never sang this aria??


Not as far as anyone knows. There is no record of her ever singing it in concert or in the opera, not even during her student days in Greece. In any case the sound clip is unmistakenly Lucia Popp. I don't know why someone would do this, but it just goes to prove you can't believe everything you see (or hear) on the internet.


----------



## MAS

Tsaraslondon said:


> Not as far as anyone knows. There is no record of her ever singing it in concert or in the opera, not even during her student days in Greece. In any case the sound clip is unmistakenly Lucia Popp. I don't know why someone would do this, but it just goes to prove you can't believe everything you see (or hear) on the internet.


There is also an Ave Maria out there attributed to Callas, but obviously not Callas. It is pure mischief. 
The closest Callas came to singing the Queen of the Night was an offer from the Met, which she refused.
She didn't like Mozart.


----------



## Tsaraslondon

MAS said:


> There is also an Ave Maria out there attributed to Callas, but obviously not Callas. It is pure mischief.
> The closest Callas came to singing the Queen of the Night was an offer from the Met, which she refused.
> She didn't like Mozart.


She would no doubt have had to make downward transpositions too (quite common at that time). The highest note in her compass was an E natural _in alt_, which she sings at the end of the _Bell Song_ and the _Siciliana_ from *I Vespri Siciliani*.


----------



## The Conte

Callas gave masterclasses at Julliard in 1971 where she coached at least one singer on the Queen of the Night's two arias. I haven't listened to the sessions for ages, so I can't remember, but she may have sung some passages of the arias at those sessions.

N.


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## MAS

Conte, you're right, she coached both arias.

https://sites.google.com/site/operalala/CallasJuilliard


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## wkasimer

MAS said:


> The closest Callas came to singing the Queen of the Night was an offer from the Met, which she refused.
> She didn't like Mozart.


She did sing "Martern aller Artern":


----------



## Tsaraslondon

wkasimer said:


> She did sing "Martern aller Artern":


She actually sang the whole opera (in Italian) at La Scala in 1952, oddly enough its La Scala première. Unfortunately it was not recorded. This aria was recorded at a concert in San Remo in 1954 (the conductor was Alfredo Simonetto, not, as stated on youtube, Tullio Serafin). She also sang it at the Dallas Opera Inaugural concert in 1957 and a recording of the rehearsal exists.

Apart from a slightly acid sustained top C, the performance has everything you could wish. It is thrillingly defiant but also feminine and her execution of the notes, especially the rapid scale work at the end, is stupendous. Brava! Callas may have once said she thought Mozart's music was boring but her singing of this aria is anything but.


----------



## ldiat

Tsaraslondon said:


> Not as far as anyone knows. There is no record of her ever singing it in concert or in the opera, not even during her student days in Greece. In any case the sound clip is unmistakenly Lucia Popp. I don't know why someone would do this, but it just goes to prove you can't believe everything you see (or hear) on the internet.


ok thanks for the info!!


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## ldiat

MAS said:


> Conte, you're right, she coached both arias.
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/operalala/CallasJuilliard


oh WOW thanks for the post!!!


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## MAS

ldiat said:


> oh WOW thanks for the post!!!


My pleasure, Idiat!


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## Seattleoperafan

This fabulous version of The Queen of the Night is upstaged by a golden lab enthusiastically singing along on a Youtube video.


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## ldiat

Seattleoperafan said:


> This fabulous version of The Queen of the Night is upstaged by a golden lab enthusiastically singing along on a Youtube video.


very cool! dog likes opera!


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## Woodduck

Tsaraslondon said:


> Callas may have once said she thought Mozart's music was boring but her singing of this aria is anything but.


I wonder exactly what she found uninteresting in Mozart's operas. I seem to recall her saying "Donna Anna is a bore" and "in Mozart I love the piano concertos." Was it the music as such she didn't care for, the characters, or the way the characters are expressed through the music? Did she ever elaborate? Certainly her few Mozart recordings are not at all boring, but then I suppose she would have made "Mairzy Doats" interesting.


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## Seattleoperafan

Woodduck said:


> I wonder exactly what she found uninteresting in Mozart's operas. I seem to recall her saying "Donna Anna is a bore" and "in Mozart I love the piano concertos." Was it the music as such she didn't care for, the characters, or the way the characters are expressed through the music? Did she ever elaborate? Certainly her few Mozart recordings are not at all boring, but then I suppose she would have made "Mairzy Doats" interesting.


Callas by nature had different voices when she sang, but to my ears she sort of straight jacketed herself so she sounded very unified from the top to the bottom in the few Mozart arias she sang so that she did not sound like she normally did . I think it cramped her style to sing that way.


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## The Conte

Woodduck said:


> I wonder exactly what she found uninteresting in Mozart's operas. I seem to recall her saying "Donna Anna is a bore" and "in Mozart I love the piano concertos." Was it the music as such she didn't care for, the characters, or the way the characters are expressed through the music? Did she ever elaborate? Certainly her few Mozart recordings are not at all boring, but then I suppose she would have made "Mairzy Doats" interesting.


I know no more than you do on this topic and I've always assumed she felt the same way about Mozart as I do. It's very good opera, but there is a simplicity to it that means it borders on the facile. The harmonization and orchestration have a perfection about them and so I understand why some idolize his music. Now, I know you could say the same thing about Bellini and yet Callas said that I Puritani was one of her favourite operas, but Bellini's melodies aren't only a setting of the words and the dramatic situation of the characters to music. He somehow managed to weave his characters' thoughts into those melodies as well. Puritani may not be dramatically very much or particularly convincing plot wise, but those long, long melodies have an intensity to them that makes them psychologically rich... when sung intelligently. Perhaps Callas preferred that challenge rather than being the umpteenth Countess to croon through Mozart's tenderly beautiful, yet rather plain laments.

Then again, Callas did record half a disc of arias for EMI in late career (including Porgi Amor, which was a low point in her legacy IMO as she was singing it too late). The Donna Elvira aria (and she would have been a superb Elvira) is riveting, though. I wonder if the reason was simply something else (after all Callas sang two Gluck roles and recorded three or four of his arias in the studio). All Mozart's operas are ensemble works that don't have a prima donna. Callas turned down a beginners contract for the Met (that would have required her to sing small parts for a season before graduating to bigger roles) and Callas was very ambitious. Like most parts of the Callas mythology, in reality it was probably a combination of these things and sometimes Callas said things rashly that she didn't quite mean in the heat of the moment.

N.


----------



## ldiat




----------



## hammeredklavier

The Conte said:


> I know no more than you do on this topic and I've always assumed she felt the same way about Mozart as I do. It's very good opera, but there is a simplicity to it that means it borders on the facile.


As we discussed in the other thread; it seems to me that people often forget Die zauberflote is a singspiel (it had to be somewhat "cute" in feel overall to please the audiences of his time), and Don giovanni is a dramma giocoso (drama with jokes; a mixture of comic and tragic opera). There were often certain "guidelines" (imposed on him by his audiences) Mozart had to follow, but I think he always dreamed of having "freedom of expression"; being able to write whatever he wanted and being accepted by his patrons and audiences for his "expressions", -the kind of freedom the Romantics would later fully achieve:

"Many years after Mozart's death, his wife Constanze mentioned her late husband's favorite works. What she said will surprise many people:
"He was fond of Don Giovanni and The Marriage of Figaro, but perhaps most of all Idomeneo. He had wonderful memories of the time and circumstances of its composition."
People who think they know and love Mozart are often amazed when they first discover Idomeneo. They have never heard Mozart sound quite like this.
The best known Mozart operas are comedies or have significant comic elements. Idomeneo is deadly serious in its subject: Can a father escape his terrible vow to sacrifice his own son? ...
... In Mozart's time, the symphonic tone poem did not yet exist, but passages in Idomeneo show that Mozart was a born master of the genre, painting with iridescent orchestral color. The circumstances of this opera inspired Mozart to enter a musical world that he never again had an opportunity to revisit.
Mozart was only 24 years old when he wrote Idomeneo. He knew this was a chance to do something really sensational, and he did it." https://packhum.org/idomeneo.html

"What then is "Romantic"? How far back should its beginnings, in music, be pushed? To 1793, when a review of a new work by "Citizen Méhul" described him as a Romantic? Or further - to year 1780-81, the year of Mozart's Idomeneo, a work whose use of orchestral colour for structural and psychological purposes anticipates nineteenth-century Romantic opera?" <Berlioz: The Making of an Artist 1803-1832 , By David Cairns , P. 193>

[ 8:00 ~ 12:00 ]
[ 26:00 ~ 32:30 ]
[ 1:23:30 ~ 1:28:30 ]
[ 1:44:30 ~ 1:50:00 ]
[ 2:01:00 ~ 2:06:00 ]
[ 2:21:30 ~ 2:27:30 ]


----------



## Seattleoperafan

The Conte said:


> I know no more than you do on this topic and I've always assumed she felt the same way about Mozart as I do. It's very good opera, but there is a simplicity to it that means it borders on the facile. The harmonization and orchestration have a perfection about them and so I understand why some idolize his music. Now, I know you could say the same thing about Bellini and yet Callas said that I Puritani was one of her favourite operas, but Bellini's melodies aren't only a setting of the words and the dramatic situation of the characters to music. He somehow managed to weave his characters' thoughts into those melodies as well. Puritani may not be dramatically very much or particularly convincing plot wise, but those long, long melodies have an intensity to them that makes them psychologically rich... when sung intelligently. Perhaps Callas preferred that challenge rather than being the umpteenth Countess to croon through Mozart's tenderly beautiful, yet rather plain laments.
> 
> Then again, Callas did record half a disc of arias for EMI in late career (including Porgi Amor, which was a low point in her legacy IMO as she was singing it too late). The Donna Elvira aria (and she would have been a superb Elvira) is riveting, though. I wonder if the reason was simply something else (after all Callas sang two Gluck roles and recorded three or four of his arias in the studio). All Mozart's operas are ensemble works that don't have a prima donna. Callas turned down a beginners contract for the Met (that would have required her to sing small parts for a season before graduating to bigger roles) and Callas was very ambitious. Like most parts of the Callas mythology, in reality it was probably a combination of these things and sometimes Callas said things rashly that she didn't quite mean in the heat of the moment.
> 
> N.


I am glad someone I admire agrees with me on these points. When I am in the right mood I enjoy Mozart immensely, but not often. Aside from a few showstopper numbers like Martin Aller Arten, the soprano arias almost never go above A5 and you almost never get exposed showy high notes that this teenager trapped in a senior's body really enjoys. I can get into the perfection of Mozart sometimes, but I prefer the showiness of Bellini and Donizetti and Verdi on a steady diet.


----------



## MAS

Tsaraslondon said:


> Callas may have once said she thought Mozart's music was boring but her singing of this aria is anything but.


She probably meant when sung by others! :lol:


----------



## MAS

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am glad someone I admire agrees with me on these points. When I am in the right mood I enjoy Mozart immensely, but not often. Aside from a few showstopper numbers like Martin Aller Arten, the soprano arias almost never go above A5 and you almost never get exposed showy high notes that this teenager trapped in a senior's body really enjoys. I can get into the perfection of Mozart sometimes, but I prefer the showiness of Bellini and Donizetti and Verdi on a steady diet.


I love the Mozart operas, but I can do without the _secco recitativi_. It is interminable in a staged *Nozze* and *Don Giovanni*. I adore Klemperer's *Zauberflöte* because he cut off all of the dialogue, but I absolutely love *Cosi fan tutte* just st as it is.

I used to love it when sopranos recorded their Mozart aria albums (when it was a thing). I listened to Margaret Price's every day for months.

As for showy arias, there once was an LP by Edda Moser which was named Mozart Concert Arias. She sings all of the bravura arias and sings the **** out if them. There was also a lovely portrait on the cover.

This is the German version of that album.


----------



## MAS

The Conte said:


> I know no more than you do on this topic and I've always assumed she felt the same way about Mozart as I do. It's very good opera, but there is a simplicity to it that means it borders on the facile. The harmonization and orchestration have a perfection about them and so I understand why some idolize his music. Now, I know you could say the same thing about Bellini and yet Callas said that I Puritani was one of her favourite operas, but Bellini's melodies aren't only a setting of the words and the dramatic situation of the characters to music. He somehow managed to weave his characters' thoughts into those melodies as well. Puritani may not be dramatically very much or particularly convincing plot wise, but those long, long melodies have an intensity to them that makes them psychologically rich... when sung intelligently. Perhaps Callas preferred that challenge rather than being the umpteenth Countess to croon through Mozart's tenderly beautiful, yet rather plain laments.
> 
> Then again, Callas did record half a disc of arias for EMI in late career (including Porgi Amor, which was a low point in her legacy IMO as she was singing it too late). The Donna Elvira aria (and she would have been a superb Elvira) is riveting, though. I wonder if the reason was simply something else (after all Callas sang two Gluck roles and recorded three or four of his arias in the studio). All Mozart's operas are ensemble works that don't have a prima donna. Callas turned down a beginners contract for the Met (that would have required her to sing small parts for a season before graduating to bigger roles) and Callas was very ambitious. Like most parts of the Callas mythology, in reality it was probably a combination of these things and sometimes Callas said things rashly that she didn't quite mean in the heat of the moment.
> 
> N.


She was offered the Queen Of The Night (in English) and Madama Butterfly. The Mozart consists of two arias, one at the beginning of the opera, the other near the end. Beverly Sills maintained the she could address her entire Christmas card list in between the two arias and that convinced her to stop singing the role. From my own point of view, I love Mozart. Listening to a recording is rewarding, but seeing it on stage can be very boring (especially *Nozze* for some reason). I do not like the _recitativi_ with its _secco_ accompaniments which is often difficult to make interesting. *Cosi Fan Tutte* is my favorite, followed very closely by *Don Giovanni*.

But I love the arias. I had an LP of Margaret Price's Mozart Arias that I listened to every day for months.


----------



## The Conte

MAS said:


> She was offered the Queen Of The Night (in English) and Madama Butterfly. The Mozart consists of two arias, one at the beginning of the opera, the other near the end. Beverly Sills maintained the she could address her entire Christmas card list in between the two arias and that convinced her to stop singing the role. From my own point of view, I love Mozart. Listening to a recording is rewarding, but seeing it on stage can be very boring (especially *Nozze* for some reason). I do not like the _recitativi_ with its _secco_ accompaniments which is often difficult to make interesting. *Cosi Fan Tutte* is my favorite, followed very closely by *Don Giovanni*.
> 
> But I love the arias. I had an LP of Margaret Price's Mozart Arias that I listened to every day for months.


I do like some of his music and very much enjoy the sublime nature of much of the score of Cosi, but I am overfamiliar with them by now and so don't have much desire to see them staged (especially with the casts of today).

When it comes to Callas' Met contract she herself said that she was offered Fidelio in English and Butterfly and she turned it down because of the roles offered. However, Edward Johnson said in a 1958 interview with The New York post that, "we offered her a contract, but she didn't like it - because of the contract, not because of the roles. She was right in turning it down - it was frankly a beginner's contract." Dino Yannopoulos who was a director at the Greek National Opera and worked at the Met just after Callas' audition said that Johnson told him that they had offered her a three year contract and would start with small roles in her first year, working her way up in the second year and in the third year she would have a premiere in a leading role (perhaps the Fidelio and Butterfly were offered then). Callas later said that she instinctively felt it wasn't the right path for her and that she believed enough in herself that she could wait for the next, better chance to come along. Had she accepted the Met contract, she most likely would not have gone to Italy to perform in Gioconda under Serafin's direction. So she was proved right in the end.

N.


----------



## Seattleoperafan

I wish there was a poll to concentrate the verdict.


----------



## MAS

The Conte said:


> I do like some of his music and very much enjoy the sublime nature of much of the score of Cosi, but I am overfamiliar with them by now and so don't have much desire to see them staged (especially with the casts of today).
> 
> When it comes to Callas' Met contract she herself said that she was offered Fidelio in English and Butterfly and she turned it down because of the roles offered. However, Edward Johnson said in a 1958 interview with The New York post that, "we offered her a contract, but she didn't like it - because of the contract, not because of the roles. She was right in turning it down - it was frankly a beginner's contract." Dino Yannopoulos who was a director at the Greek National Opera and worked at the Met just after Callas' audition said that Johnson told him that they had offered her a three year contract and would start with small roles in her first year, working her way up in the second year and in the third year she would have a premiere in a leading role (perhaps the Fidelio and Butterfly were offered then). Callas later said that she instinctively felt it wasn't the right path for her and that she believed enough in herself that she could wait for the next, better chance to come along. Had she accepted the Met contract, she most likely would not have gone to Italy to perform in Gioconda under Serafin's direction. So she was proved right in the end.
> 
> N.


I'm getting myself confused - early in the process, before she got thin, Bing wanted to know whether she would be a good Queen Of The Night, and offered to transpose the aria a whole tone for her, though I'm not sure he actually made an offer.

The problem is, I have a good memory, but I just read so many books on Callas and saw all of those films biographies, I can't remember *where * I saw or read what...


----------



## Revitalized Classics

The Conte said:


> I know no more than you do on this topic and I've always assumed she felt the same way about Mozart as I do. It's very good opera, but there is a simplicity to it that means it borders on the facile. The harmonization and orchestration have a perfection about them and so I understand why some idolize his music. Now, I know you could say the same thing about Bellini and yet Callas said that I Puritani was one of her favourite operas, but Bellini's melodies aren't only a setting of the words and the dramatic situation of the characters to music. He somehow managed to weave his characters' thoughts into those melodies as well. Puritani may not be dramatically very much or particularly convincing plot wise, but those long, long melodies have an intensity to them that makes them psychologically rich... when sung intelligently. Perhaps Callas preferred that challenge rather than being the umpteenth Countess to croon through Mozart's tenderly beautiful, yet rather plain laments.
> 
> *Then again, Callas did record half a disc of arias for EMI in late career (including Porgi Amor, which was a low point in her legacy IMO as she was singing it too late). The Donna Elvira aria (and she would have been a superb Elvira) is riveting, though. I wonder if the reason was simply something else (after all Callas sang two Gluck roles and recorded three or four of his arias in the studio).* All Mozart's operas are ensemble works that don't have a prima donna. Callas turned down a beginners contract for the Met (that would have required her to sing small parts for a season before graduating to bigger roles) and Callas was very ambitious. Like most parts of the Callas mythology, in reality it was probably a combination of these things and sometimes Callas said things rashly that she didn't quite mean in the heat of the moment.
> 
> N.


I rather wondered if Callas was making a point recording those Mozart arias?

Reading Frank Hamilton's chronology, Callas fell out badly with Legge for choosing Schwarzkopf to record the Verdi Requiem. Even at a distance it seems pretty bold to cast your wife - who you had already recorded previously in the De Sabata version - over the foremost Verdian soprano and probably biggest star on your books who really wants to record it.

Next thing we know, we have Callas singing Mozartian rep she barely touched elsewhere and with Michel Glotz as producer...


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## MAS

Revitalized Classics said:


> I rather wondered if Callas was making a point recording those Mozart arias?
> 
> Reading Frank Hamilton's chronology, Callas fell out badly with Legge for choosing Schwarzkopf to record the Verdi Requiem. Even at a distance it seems pretty bold to cast your wife - who you had already recorded previously in the De Sabata version - over the foremost Verdian soprano and probably biggest star on your books who really wants to record it.
> 
> Next thing we know, we have Callas singing Mozartian rep she barely touched elsewhere and with Michel Glotz as producer...


I think it was rather a challenge, that she could sing "your wife's" repertoire (Beethoven, Mozart & Weber). But of course, it was too late for Callas to do herself justice.


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## Tsaraslondon

MAS said:


> I think it was rather a challenge, that she could sing "your wife's" repertoire (Beethoven, Mozart & Weber). But of course, it was too late for Callas to do herself justice.


It was also rather too late for her to be recording the Verdi *Requiem*, though I'd love t have heard her sing it at the time of De Sabata's recording.


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## Agamenon

This is the best: DEUTEKOM. Dark, powerful and full of coloraturas.


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## MAS

Agamenon said:


> This is the best: DEUTEKOM. Dark, powerful and full of coloraturas.


I love Deutekom's, Chery Studer's, and Edda Moser's Q.O.T.N.s


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## ldiat




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## MAS

Ldiat, once again, if you're not going to comment on a video, please post it on the Opera Videos sub-forum.

https://www.talkclassical.com/opera-videos/

This is a *discussion* thread.


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