# Self sufficiency, survivalism, off grid living: your thoughts and experiences!



## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Do you aspire to, or are you actually living, a simpler life, more connected to nature than the life of the average city or suburb dweller? Do you perhaps use hand tools in preference to power tools, grow edible plants and preserve them, use solar or wind power, harvest rainwater or use a well, build your own shelter, practice bushcraft, make things rather than buy them, or anything else that might fall within the scope of so-called self sufficiency? Please share your opinions, insights, and aspirations here!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> Do you aspire to, or are you actually living, a simpler life, more connected to nature than the life of the average city or suburb dweller? Do you perhaps use hand tools in preference to power tools, grow edible plants and preserve them, use solar or wind power, harvest rainwater or use a well, build your own shelter, practice bushcraft, make things rather than buy them, or anything else that might fall within the scope of so-called self sufficiency? Please share your opinions, insights, and aspirations here!


Um - no! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> Um - no!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


C'mon, not even a basil plant on the kitchen windowsill?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I used to grow mint in a pot outside my front door - then I noticed little white flies on it. I googled 'white fly on my mint' and found a whole site dedicated to the subject.... end of mint-growing experiment. 

I am afraid I also use a tumble dryer because the seagulls where we live have a penchant for 'dumping' on the nice clean teatowels on our clothes line.

I do use rainwater butts for our trees-in-pots, but I also use the hose (if allowed) for the bigger watering jobs.

However, I don't do 'ready meals' - we eat real food always.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

No.....................................


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Some of the above. Our water comes from our beloved well. We also harvest rainwater to water the garden, in which we grow perhaps half of the veggies/fruit we consume. Some of the veggies are frozen, others are marinated and stored in the cellar. Potatoes simply go from field to cellar every autumn. Some of the fruit is jarred, but a great deal (currants, raspberries) is made into juice concentrate. The final product depends largely on the weather. We have had periods of drought, in which the water table in the well became worrisome low, and the vegetable garden became extremely thirsty. What's more, our daughter's boyfriend has an uncanny ability to restore mechanical equipment into working order.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

What remains of my mint is leggy and threadbare - you can see why I'm in need of experienced advice! On the other hand, the garden of my rented house in England is full of the kind of plants that thrive on neglect: wild strawberries are providing excellent ground cover and good crops of tasty berries, redcurrant bushes are over six feet tall (nasty sour fruit though) and the dwarf Victoria plum tree should crop heavily later in the summer. I had to give up my allotment when I was pregnant and did my back in, but while it lasted I managed to produce very good crops of undemanding plants like potatoes and raspberries. The new garden in France has raspberries and tree fruit galore, making me less sad to leave the maturing garden I began in the UK. (Without security of tenure, it's arguably a waste of money and effort to cultivate land belonging to someone else, and that's the realisation that made me serious about owning my own place, even though I had to emigrate to achieve this.)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> Do you aspire to, or are you actually living, a simpler life, more connected to nature than the life of the average city or suburb dweller? Do you perhaps use hand tools in preference to power tools, grow edible plants and preserve them, use solar or wind power, harvest rainwater or use a well, build your own shelter, practice bushcraft, make things rather than buy them, or anything else that might fall within the scope of so-called self sufficiency? Please share your opinions, insights, and aspirations here!


No nothing like that.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

What I've found if you have fruit trees in the garden is that some years you have loads and others you have none. We had an English peach tree in our garden when we lived in Grantham and my mother used to talk fondly of John fetching her a ripe peach to go with her breakfast cereal. That was the year we had loads of peaches, so we were giving them away, but couldn't manage it before the wasps got them. The next year we had none.

If you're into jam making and preserving, that's different, and I used to give the crab apples in Grantham to a neighbour who made her own crab apple jelly. But I've always been an undomesticated type, living in my head, or preferring to curl up in a chair with a good book and a cup of coffee. 

Besides, why would I deprive my spouse of the pleasure of shopping - he absolutely loves it.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> Um - no!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I thought Norfolk was already off grid?


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2016)

Figleaf said:


> Do you aspire to, or are you actually living, a simpler life, more connected to nature than the life of the average city or suburb dweller? Do you perhaps use hand tools in preference to power tools, grow edible plants and preserve them, use solar or wind power, harvest rainwater or use a well, build your own shelter, practice bushcraft, make things rather than buy them, or anything else that might fall within the scope of so-called self sufficiency? Please share your opinions, insights, and aspirations here!


I watched Hunted. Does that count??!


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

That your red currants are sour is because - being 6 feet tall - the plants are devoting more energy to making bush than fruit. They certainly need pruning (although I've never seen a variety of red currant grow to such massive heights).

Raspberries make the greatest juice concentrate. Open a bottle in the middle of a miserable winter to relive the joys of summer. You'll need one of these:


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

It's my firm belief that a musician is no musician at all without someone to hear them besides themselves. IMO, there's something... _wrong _about just playing music by oneself in the wilderness, imo. I know people aspire to that as a sort of romantic ideal, to play one's flute out in the forest for the birds or whatever, or perhaps for God. But this is a one-way conversation. That's not my calling as a musician, nor do I believe that should be the calling of _any _musician. I'm quite certain even birds sing this way, that they are always in communication with their species around them. Music is to be shared, with living, breathing people._ I don't enjoy music that much if I can't share it with others. Playing/listening to music alone is only half the satisfaction._ When I practice, it is for a bigger purpose than just pleasing myself with my own good music-making. Hence, I have no aspirations to the nomadic lifestyle. I will always live among people my whole life, in harmonious symbiosis.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd like to be able to forage properly for nuts, fungi and fruit but I lack the knowledge and would probably poison myself within minutes. Blackberries are the only edible wild fruit I know of which are in abundance in my town and I end up collecting lots of them when late summer's here. My favourite blackberry-picking area is along a path adjacent to the railway station - many people walk through there but no-one seems to want to take the trouble to benefit from what's on offer - maybe they prefer the watery over-sized rubbish which sells for exorbitant prices at the local supermarket.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Lots of self-sufficiency stuff is more expensive than you think. All the energy needed to make your own jam: better buy it (>50% real fruit) at the Aldi or Lidl. The same goes for homegrown vegetables. All the groundwork, fertilising, watering etc., etc. We do have quadruple glazing in the whole house, of which the +side is the huge energy saving, but the -side that it gets just too hot in the summer, especially during the nights. We ventilate, ventilate and still it remains +22 degrees.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I like the idea, but it's not feasible when one lives in a busy city and must contend with work, commuting, etc. I am looking into moving to a smaller city with a slower pace of life . . . we'll see what happens.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

There is this convent in the San Juan islands(an archipelago around the northernmost corner of the US, between mainland Washington and Victoria, B.C.) where one can apply to stay with the nuns and learn many skills, lead a life that isn't fragmented by technology, for up to a year. They apparently raise Alpacas, Highland Cattle, Llamas, and some other interesting live stock. My parents rode their bikes on that island and supposedly saw the 'happiest looking cows' they'd ever seen. It seems like a really cool possibility to be able to stay there and help out, for even just a month.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

TxllxT said:


> Lots of self-sufficiency stuff is more expensive than you think. All the energy needed to make your own jam: better buy it (>50% real fruit) at the Aldi or Lidl. The same goes for homegrown vegetables. All the groundwork, fertilising, watering etc., etc.


Okay, but let's also put into the equation the physical benefits that go into all that work. Is it more rewarding to go to (and pay for) the gym 'to reap nothing'? And what price do we afford on the self-satisfaction that comes from providing for ourselves?


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Kivimees said:


> Okay, but let's also put into the equation the physical benefits that go into all that work. Is it more rewarding to go to (and pay for) the gym 'to reap nothing'? And what price do we afford on the self-satisfaction that comes from providing for ourselves?


We know a lot of people in the Czech Republic, who busy themselves with making compote, jam, & whatever you can think of. But after that one has to eat all these pots of homemade jam, all these stocks without end. Really, are these not sometimes blessings with a curse in disguise? All these apples that are cut to pieces and drying in the attic, all these mushrooms!
On the other hand I love these centuries old habits...


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> I'd like to be able to forage properly for nuts, fungi and fruit but I lack the knowledge and would probably poison myself within minutes.


Yes, there is nothing like waking at the crack of dawn to go foraging for fungi in the woods. Once one gets a taste of the wild fungi, the store-bought 'mushrooms' no longer do it. But - yes - one needs to know what's what.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I live in the center of the grid and prefer it that way.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

dogen said:


> I watched Hunted. Does that count??!


For you it does. :tiphat:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

TxllxT said:


> We know a lot of people in the Czech Republic, who busy themselves with making compote, jam, & whatever you can think of. But after that one has to eat all these pots of homemade jam, all these stocks without end. Really, are these not sometimes blessings with a curse in disguise? All these apples that are cut to pieces and drying in the attic, all these mushrooms!
> On the other hand I love these centuries old habits...


I have relatives who do all of that, and sometimes call me over to help with harvesting the garden.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> Do you aspire to, or are you actually living, a simpler life, more connected to nature than the life of the average city or suburb dweller? Do you perhaps use hand tools in preference to power tools, grow edible plants and preserve them, use solar or wind power, harvest rainwater or use a well, build your own shelter, practice bushcraft, make things rather than buy them, or anything else that might fall within the scope of so-called self sufficiency? Please share your opinions, insights, and aspirations here!


Simpler life, as in not wasting it in pursuit of a thousand material things - yes. Spending time in nature - also yes. Moving out on own piece of land, growing my own food etc - I don't think I am quite ready for that. I think it would take up too much of my time, and I would not have any left for enjoying music or other things. Maybe one day when I am retired, I might try. But then I already have some plans for retirement, and they do not involve potting jam and drying apples


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Simpler life, as in not wasting it in pursuit of a thousand material things - yes. Spending time in nature - also yes. Moving out on own piece of land, growing my own food etc - I don't think I am quite ready for that. *I think it would take up too much of my time, and I would not have any left for enjoying music or other things. Maybe one day when I am retired, I might try. *But then I already have some plans for retirement, and they do not involve potting jam and drying apples


Retirement is precisely when Taggart & I did take up music - I was much more active in the garden *pre*-retirement.
But now it's all just *fiddle fiddle fiddle*!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> Retirement is precisely when Taggart & I did take up music - I was much more active in the garden *pre*-retirement.
> But now it's all just *fiddle fiddle fiddle*!


Fiddle of joy I presume


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I aspire to these things and I hope that in the future this will become reality. I'm not an introvert and I don't need a time out from people. It's these two things: 1) I'm disgusted by technology and prefer non-electrical equipment and natural materials, and 2) I need more time with nature to feel good. These two go hand in hand: the less technology I have around me, the more I perceive my surroundings as "nature". But, like I said, I'm not a hermit type. I want to live in a hobbit village with all the other hobbits, just taking long walks alone sometimes, and not even that often. It might be even so that if I had no technology around me, my desire to experience nature undisturbed might disappear. I'd be content to work the fields with the other hobbits.

I do live in Helsinki right now, but in the most rural-type place in the whole city. I can just about manage. What gives me pleasure are some little things related to doing stuff with my own hands: grinding spices with mortar and pestle, grinding coffee beans by hand-mill, using cast iron, wood and traditional ceramics in the kitchen. Also, self-limiting my internet time, reading books (dead tree ones), even using and washing traditional cloth diapers on my kids. You read that right, I take a pleasure in cleaning those things, as it feels _real_ in a way that using factory-made ones would not. It feels that I'm taking my fate in my own hands, at least for a tiny extent, as opposed to just throwing my life in the hands of the market forces.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

When I was married we lived in an old terraced house which a long narrow back garden. We grew a huge variety of vegetables and never had too many because the rows were short. We had raspberries and gooseberries as well. On a tiny strip alongside the path we grew herbs. We loved growing our own stuff and saved loads of money.

I can't grow anything where I am now but I do forage for blackberries and elderberries.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Xaltotun said:


> I aspire to these things and I hope that in the future this will become reality. I'm not an introvert and I don't need a time out from people. It's these two things: 1) I'm disgusted by technology and prefer non-electrical equipment and natural materials, and 2) I need more time with nature to feel good. These two go hand in hand: the less technology I have around me, the more I perceive my surroundings as "nature". But, like I said, I'm not a hermit type. I want to live in a hobbit village with all the other hobbits, just taking long walks alone sometimes, and not even that often. It might be even so that if I had no technology around me, my desire to experience nature undisturbed might disappear. I'd be content to work the fields with the other hobbits.
> 
> I do live in Helsinki right now, but in the most rural-type place in the whole city. I can just about manage. What gives me pleasure are some little things related to doing stuff with my own hands: grinding spices with mortar and pestle, grinding coffee beans by hand-mill, using cast iron, wood and traditional ceramics in the kitchen. Also, self-limiting my internet time, reading books (dead tree ones), even using and washing traditional cloth diapers on my kids. You read that right, I take a pleasure in cleaning those things, as it feels _real_ in a way that using factory-made ones would not. It feels that I'm taking my fate in my own hands, at least for a tiny extent, as opposed to just throwing my life in the hands of the market forces.


Could you elaborate more on your being 'disgusted by technology'? Also 'the market forces' appear to me as demonised entities. Why?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Surely we must all like technology a little or we wouldn't be here?


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