# A thread for refugees…



## KenOC

…from that “other place” whose name cannot be spoken here. The end has come suddenly, like a thief in the night. The great Computer in the Cloud has shut down its neurons far faster (though less entertainingly) than HAL in that movie. And we didn’t even get a song!

So this is a thread for bedraggled refugees, gaunt and weary in their torn and travel-stained garments, to gather and huddle together for warmth. And perhaps to get answers to the questions that have troubled struggling mankind for centuries:

“How come there are all these separate forums?”
“Where are the religion and politics forums? No debates on evolution?”
“How come I can’t change my avatar?”
“How do I post a picture that’s bigger than a postage stamp?”

The answers to these and other mysteries will be delivered to acolytes when they’re deemed worthy. Meanwhile, I’ll just look forward to the company.


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## PeterFromLA

Classy act on that forum's part, to announce that the forum would be shutting down in three days, and then to shut it down on the very day they announced the pending shut down...

Ah, well, it's their sandcastle, I suppose, and they can do with it what they wish. Meanwhile, I hope to see many of the old forum members hanging around in these parts. The water's quite nice!


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## Krummhorn

PeterFromLA said:


> Classy act on that forum's part, to announce that the forum would be shutting down in three days, and then to shut it down on the very day they announced the pending shut down...
> 
> Ah, well, it's their sandcastle, I suppose, and they can do with it what they wish. Meanwhile, I hope to see many of the old forum members hanging around in these parts. The water's quite nice!


I do hope all those posts "over there" remain extant and accessible, at least for reference purposes and out of respect for all the former members.


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## CnC Bartok

I seriously didn't believe this would happen, but times change and one can always spend lots of money with the countless independent retailers rather than the big dehumanised behemoth that is named after a vaguely well known river. I too hope we can at least access the old forums, lots of very interesting and worth-referring-to things have been said there over the years.
CnCB as I was known there.


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## CnC Bartok

...and at least i now know what KenOC actually looks like!


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## CnC Bartok

And of course closing down the forums and locking the discussions too will go a very long way towards saving money so they can pay their 250,000,000 Euro outstanding tax bill. Ha!


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## distantprommer

I have been a good Amazon customer over the years, including prime membership. From this point on, no longer. There are many alternatives, and we would do well to explore these.

IMHO, Amazon has gotten to be too large and authoritarian a semi-monopoly. Maybe the time has come to break it up.

Sad!


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## philoctetes

Once known as VO, I guess my new name is appropriate for someone left abandoned....

Amazon, Google, MSFT, all this internet commerce has become Big Brother anyway. One has to reserve a separate, constantly sanitized device for the important stuff nowadays.

My business with Amazon was already slowing down. The Marketplace is under clampdown and no longer useful for trading used CDs. BRO has offered a lot of good stuff lately...


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## CnC Bartok

VO - Those for some lutrine company! CnCB


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## CnC Bartok

"Those" should read "glad", sorry, not allowed to edit posts yet!


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## CDs

Never knew Amazon had a forum but I shouldn't be surprised that they did since they do almost everything else.


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## PeterFromLA

The forum was in operation for ten years, CDs, from 2007 until yesterday. There's quite a few active TC members who were there regularly for years and years.

Why are people changing their handles? I'm not going to remember who is who now...


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## jlspinks

When the ship sank it did so in a hurry. I wonder how much in sales Amazon will lose buy not conducting those forums.


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## PeterFromLA

Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs? I'm with DP on this one, and I love the Olmec head!


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## Bulldog

PeterFromLA said:


> Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs?


I always buy cd's from ArkivMusic. It has a great website and I can efficiently move through it. For those counting pennies, it might be too expensive.


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## st Omer

Welcome fellow music lovers my name is Errol Flynn and I escaped from the Amazon basin where I was nearly consumed by piranhas and left for dead but survived for 10 years. I have wandered over battered and beaten and hope to reunite with many fellow outcasts.


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## Itullian

PeterFromLA said:


> Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs? I'm with DP on this one, and I love the Olmec head!


Import CD'S is very good.
http://www.importcds.com/


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## Portamento

PeterFromLA said:


> Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs?


Presto Classical.


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## Krummhorn

jlspinks said:


> When the ship sank it did so in a hurry. I wonder how much in sales Amazon will lose buy not conducting those forums.


I have been an Amazon Prime member for many years. I had no idea that they even had a classical discussion forum until I was advised by one of our members here.


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## Pugg

PeterFromLA said:


> Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs? I'm with DP on this one, and I love the Olmec head!


https://www.jpc.de/?iampartner=spon&awc=100&awa=1000&kw=jpc&pos=1t1&gclid=COKP5eSK2c0CFUqeGwodXXkHPw


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## KenOC

A word in Amazon's defense. Amazon ran these forums for over a decade, and they must have realized long since that the cost of maintaining them was greater than any profits that came out of them. So now they've come up with a new scheme, more product-oriented and likely more profitable to them. They have, at last, dropped the forums.

Well, that's too bad. But how can we complain that a free service, given us for a long period, has been discontinued? I see people vowing revenge by taking their business elsewhere. But are we in fact "entitled" to any free services from Amazon? Were we ever? Were we somehow deserving? Or are we, like many Americans, simply "entitled"?


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## distantprommer

PeterFromLA said:


> Any recommendations on alternative sites for purchasing CDs? I'm with DP on this one, and I love the Olmec head!


Thanks for your comment on the Olmec head. Not a picture of myself I am afraid. I took it at the MAX (Museo Arquelogico de Xalapa) in Mexico.

I buy most of my music as downloads. However, when in London (several times a year) I always go into Foyle's and seldom walk out without having bought some CDs (and box sets). 
Mostly I buy downloads. Amazon has now lost me as a customer here. There are many other sites for buying downloads, not the least of which is the iTunes store.


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## distantprommer

KenOC said:


> Well, that's too bad. But how can we complain that a free service, given us for a long period, has been discontinued? I see people vowing revenge by taking their business elsewhere. But are we in fact "entitled" to any free services from Amazon? Were we ever? Were we somehow deserving? Or are we, like many Americans, simply "entitled"?


Indeed, the forum may have been free. However, I do think that the forum members, as a group, will have bought more CDs, Downloads and other stuff from Amazon based on comments and recommendations made on the forum. I know that I bought much, much more via Amazon than I would have, had the forum not existed at all. I even became a Prime member because of this.

The Forum may have been free. Yet it was a great marketing tool and may well have had its cost covered by increased sales.

I never felt we were entitled to the forum. I only regret the loss of the community of members using the forum.


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## KenOC

distantprommer said:


> ...I never felt we were entitled to the forum. I only regret the loss of the community of members using the forum.


Agree 100%. It's a shame.


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## st Omer

I got an email last night from Zadok the Priest, a major contributor at the Amazon forums until the last few years. I encouraged him to come over here. I wish I had contact info for more of our friends from Amazon so I could encourage them to come here. Anybody know how to reach Dichterliebe, Edgar Self, Flavius, Magnolia Phil, Voltsheimer, Simpson? Other than Zadok I think I have info on A.B. Mendillo, Superhugefatass, and John Ruggeri but those are the only people I ever emailed other than Kim Beazly, who I believe is done with discussion groups. If anybody here knows how to reach any of the above named persons send me a private message with your contact info and I can you an email or give you my email and you can email me and we can exchange the info that way without giving out anybody's info on this site.


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## KenOC

Omer, Angelo Mendillo is already here. I have e-mailed Greg in Australia and he hopes to show up but is indisposed right now.


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## philoctetes

Presto and Berkshire are my favorite Amazon busters. Presto has lots of discounts, but shipping is slow. Berkshire recently added lots of Chandos and Testament, and for those who like Brilliant, they have those too.


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## MusicBear88

I'm from the Amazon forums, Thomas B. Dawkins from Boston. Good to see we haven't all scattered to the winds!


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## KenOC

Yo TBD, hi there!


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## Lisztian

Warm welcome to all :tiphat:


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## Ras

This is Rasmus from the amazon forums - as you can see I have shortened my name for ease of use and reference - but I still have the same old Danish accent.

Where to buy other than amazon? - I don't think anyone has mentioned the English website: http://mdt.co.uk - they have a better search function than amazon and their listings of new and upcoming releases are the easiest to navigate that I am familiar with. For those living in the U.S. you have to check the shipping prices - I live in Europe, so I don't know how much they charge.

I just checked the amazon.com forum - they are now COMPLETELY GONE - no links - no threads - no posts - no nothing. Rumor has it that the amazon.co.uk forum is headed in the same direction. I believe the rumors this time! I tell you that!


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## Pesaro

jlspinks said:


> When the ship sank it did so in a hurry. I wonder how much in sales Amazon will lose buy not conducting those forums.


I don't know about the whole system but I can imagine that sales from the classical music discussion thread amounted to a very tiny percentage of their sales. Otherwise, we would still be there.


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## Granate

Ras said:


> This is Rasmus from the amazon forums - as you can see I have shortened my name for ease of use and reference - but I still have the same old Danish accent.
> 
> Where to buy other than amazon? - I don't think anyone has mentioned the English website: http://mdt.co.uk - they have a better search function than amazon and their listings of new and upcoming releases are the easiest to navigate that I am familiar with. For those living in the U.S. you have to check the shipping prices - I live in Europe, so I don't know how much they charge.
> 
> I just checked the amazon.com forum - they are now COMPLETELY GONE - no links - no threads - no posts - no nothing. Rumor has it that the amazon.co.uk forum is headed in the same direction. I believe the rumors this time! I tell you that!


Welcome to Talk Classical, Ras (or Rasmus). I'm now a frequent buyer in Amazon UK (cheaper than Spain but arrives much later).


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## Ras

Hi Granate 
Thank you for welcoming me here on TC!
Yes, I should stress/underline that amazon is still working more or less like before shopping-wise as far as I can tell. But the forums are gone or on their way out. I buy most of my CDs etc. from German amazon: http://www.amazon.de because they offer free shipping to Denmark where I live.


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## CnC Bartok

Ras, good to see you here, as well as on the UK site! I regularly use mdt, and can vouch for their quality and remarkably good efficiency. They are known as englishpostbox on Amazon UK, not sure which ordering source is the cheaper, though. CnCB


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## KenOC

These are the new Amazon members that have shown up here this week (some earlier). There may be errors because I have to depend on memory. Talk Classical handle followed by Amazon handle.

Angelo Mandillo, AB Mandillo
distantprommer, Distant Prommer
Jlspinks, J Spinks
Larkenfield, Larkenfield
MusicBear88, Thomas B Dawkins
Pesaro, HB
Phil in Magnolia, Phil (not) in Magnolia
Philoctetes, Vaughan Otter
Ras, Rasmus
Robert Pickett, Cute ‘n Cuddly Bartok
St Omer, Saint Omer


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## distantprommer

Will we be able to get Piso (Edgar) here? Or Flavius (Dexter)? They too were pillars of the Amazon Forum.


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## Triplets

jlspinks said:


> When the ship sank it did so in a hurry. I wonder how much in sales Amazon will lose buy not conducting those forums.


They probably won't even notice


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## Ras

Robert P.
Thank you! 
I didn't know that mdt were on amazon third party pages. I will compare prices when I have money enough to buy the new upcoming Herreweghe 30 cd box set from Harmonia Mundi.


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## Ras

Ken and distantp.

I already miss MR Simpson's posts! Hope someone can tell him that... I don't have his e-mail.
And I would like to see superhuge here as well - maybe he has a new name?
I can write a note to Edgar - I have his e-mail address.


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## CDs

Ras said:


> the new upcoming Herreweghe 30 cd box set from Harmonia Mundi.


Thanks for mentioning this. Great conductor will have to look out for this box set.


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## Ras

CDs said:


> Thanks for mentioning this. Great conductor will have to look out for this box set.


Hi Cds
You are welcome - here is the Herreweghe HM-box:
https://www.mdt.co.uk/herreweghe-philippe-the-harmonia-mundi-years-30cds.html 30 cds for about 30 English £. That is a pretty good deal I think. I don't have many Herreweghe cds, so I will probably buy when I can afford it.


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## CDs

^From my research I couldn't find any track listing information. Will be interesting to see what will be on the 30 CDs and hopefully a great accompanying booklet.


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## Ras

CDs said:


> ^From my research I couldn't find any track listing information. Will be interesting to see what will be on the 30 CDs and hopefully a great accompanying booklet.


I couldn't find a track listing either - not even on Harmonia Mundi's own website. Strange.


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## st Omer

Kenoc,

Several other former Amazon posters I have noted are Mahlerian, WKasimer, Rick Riekert & Mandryka. A few of them appear to have been here several years.


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## KenOC

Yeah, I was just trying to catch the new arrivals.


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## CnC Bartok

Quite a few others to try and keep tabs on - any sign of scarecrow? Auntie Lynn? Even the ever (un)predictable Dichterliebe?

Also MR Simpson, really would like to see him here somewhere. I properly warmed to him over the years, a genuinely decent chap. I have dropped a line to SHFA, and hope he'll stick his head in at some stage, despite a very busy few months he has had.

Amazon UK has now announced they are closing their forums, this Friday. All very sad.

I too have been trying to find info on the big Herreweghe box from Harmonia Mundi. Nothing so far, but I'd expect a huge range, from the early music stuff he's usually associated with, to the wonderfully sparkling Schoenberg recordings he has done. I hope there's not going to be too much duplication on my part, though.

And if I do buy the box, I know where I am NOT getting it from!


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## Ebor1

UK forum now also appears locked to new posts - two days before the announced shutdown date... hope some of my fellow posters from there make it across...


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## CDs

Ras said:


> I couldn't find a track listing either - not even on Harmonia Mundi's own website. Strange.


Amazon finally put up an image of the back of the box set.


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## Ras

CDs said:


> Amazon finally put up an image of the back of the box set.
> 
> View attachment 98243


Thanks CDs for the track listing for the HM Herreweghe box!


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## Blancrocher

philoctetes said:


> Once known as VO, I guess my new name is appropriate for someone left abandoned....
> 
> Amazon, Google, MSFT, all this internet commerce has become Big Brother anyway. One has to reserve a separate, constantly sanitized device for the important stuff nowadays.
> 
> My business with Amazon was already slowing down. The Marketplace is under clampdown and no longer useful for trading used CDs. BRO has offered a lot of good stuff lately...


What is BRO? I'm not familiar with this retailer, and Google isn't helping at the moment.


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## Blancrocher

KenOC said:


> They have, at last, dropped the forums.
> 
> Well, that's too bad. But how can we complain that a free service, given us for a long period, has been discontinued? I see people vowing revenge by taking their business elsewhere. But are we in fact "entitled" to any free services from Amazon? Were we ever? Were we somehow deserving? Or are we, like many Americans, simply "entitled"?


This seems tactless and hardly in keeping with the spirit of this thread, KenOC. I think the newcomers should be allowed to complain about Amazon in peace.


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## Ras

Blancrocher said:


> What is BRO? I'm not familiar with this retailer, and Google isn't helping at the moment.


BRO = Berkshire Record Outlet

Many Americans on the amazon forum loved this independent seller which offered things under the radar - out of print - at low prices. (I live in Europe, so I haven't tried buying there myself.)


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## Larkenfield

st Omer said:


> Welcome fellow music lovers my name is Errol Flynn and I escaped from the Amazon basin where I was nearly consumed by piranhas and left for dead but survived for 10 years. I have wandered over battered and beaten and hope to reunite with many fellow outcasts.


St Omer, as far as TC is concerned, it looks like you're "in like Flynn"!

Greetings again from Sedona.


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## Tero

I started shopping for some discs on Import CDs .com lately. The Jethro Tull anniversary versions of famous albums (3-4 discs) have been some 35 dollars at Amazon. I found three listed for 20 at that site. There is no free shipping so it pays to select a few selections at a time.

I still buy books from Amazon sellers as the books I am interested in are often used and sometimes only used old books.

For classical, not much ordered lately.


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## Klassik

Ras said:


> BRO = Berkshire Record Outlet
> 
> Many Americans on the amazon forum loved this independent seller which offered things under the radar - out of print - at low prices. (I live in Europe, so I haven't tried buying there myself.)


I'm not an Amazon refugee, but I hope I'm welcomed in this thread.

How is BRO in terms of customer service and shipping time? Their circa 1997 website and ordering process seems a little scary to me. I feel like I need to load Netscape Navigator (aka Nutscrape) or NCSA Mosaic just to view their website! :lol: Is their credit card ordering page even on a secure connection?

My policy on CD orders is to only order from established businesses that are known for decent customer service and quick order fulfillment. A couple months ago, I decided to not follow my policy and I ordered some CDs from another closeout/cut-out classical CD online store located in the NE US (I'll withhold the name of this retailer for now even though they probably deserve the negative publicity). People on other forums have had successful orders from this store in the past so I didn't have any reason to think that they'd scam me, but I fear that is what may have happened.

They sent me an e-mail two or three weeks after my order saying that the order was shipped and they gave me a USPS Media Mail tracking number, but the tracking number never said anything other than that the shipper contacted the post office for a pick-up. A couple weeks went by and nothing showed up here. I contacted the seller and they told me they'd ship another package out to me. Another 2-3 weeks went by without a word from the seller even though I sent several e-mails and left a voicemail on their number. Finally, they said they shipped out the second order, but they never gave me a tracking number even though I asked for one. At least a week has gone by with nothing showing up once again. I don't know how slow USPS Media Mail is, but I'm guessing I'm going to have to call my credit card company and dispute the charges (they billed me right after I put in the order). I've never had to do that before. I'm certainly not looking forward to that process. 

So, yeah, I think I'll stick to Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and maybe another couple of B&M chains with online stores from now on. It looks like I've paid the price for deviating from my policy.


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## philoctetes

If a website is designated https, rather than http, then all communication with the server is encrypted. 

BRO is secure and the old-fashioned HTML works just fine on all my browsers including Firefox, which is not true for some of the newer web formats. Searching BRO takes a little patience. 

BRO is simply an outlet for overstocks from hundreds of labels, some familiar and many not so familiar. Listeners of historical recordings will find BRO is like an old dusty bookstore on a hidden downtown street where you find stuff you never knew about.


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## LezLee

My first port of call is ebay, often cheaper than ‘zon and usually with free delivery. Of course there isn’t as big a range, but it’s surprising how often you can find what you want. Presto Classical is also good, especially their sales and they often have special offers on selected labels.


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## Klassik

philoctetes said:


> If a website is designated https, rather than http, then all communication with the server is encrypted.
> 
> BRO is secure and the old-fashioned HTML works just fine on all my browsers including Firefox, which is not true for some of the newer web formats. Searching BRO takes a little patience.
> 
> BRO is simply an outlet for overstocks from hundreds of labels, some familiar and many not so familiar. Listeners of historical recordings will find BRO is like an old dusty bookstore on a hidden downtown street where you find stuff you never knew about.


Their site is indeed on a secured connection. I actually prefer more basic websites for many things, but I become more suspicious about "vintage" looking websites when it involves credit card information! Perhaps those fears are unfounded, but what can I say.

How quickly does BRO process orders? If I order something that they say is in stock, will I have to wait a couple of months to get the order?

BRO certainly has some great deals and some CDs that can't easily be found elsewhere, but I'm just suspicious of buying from mom-n-pop type online stores. This is especially true given my poor recent experience with another closeout store similar to BRO. We have a mom-n-pop type B&M classical music CD store in Houston, Joel's Classical Shop, and they claim that they can order just about any CD if it's not already in their inventory. I'd rather go that route than roll the dice with small online stores, but I know many people have had pleasant experiences shopping on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, BRO, and other similar type sites.


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## Guest

I'm a refugee from another music board after having to flee this one in 2013 because of the same troll - who was here for ages (and mostly got away with offensive behaviours). He has started to attack me again recently on the other board, after a hiatus of years (I lived in hope he'd reformed), and I'm in 'hiding' here for the present in plain sight. Whenever I post something the arrogance, sarcasm and abuse starts and he's never sanctioned. No wonder they have but a handful of people left. It's living proof that once you become bitter you're a dangerous person. 

But all looks good here at TC nowadays, thanks to better moderation. Not that I post all that much.


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## Guest

By the way, the troll in question was a hydra; it took a two-pronged attack by using _simultaneous usernames_ from which launch its attacks!!:lol:


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## Luchesi

Tero said:


> For classical, not much ordered lately.


Tero - you are in here. (You've been here.) How did the Bluebird population do this year. I hope they're not declining.


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## T Son of Ander

Wow, somehow I missed this thread when the other forum went bust. Good place to find a lot of the people I knew there.

I started a thread on their new "forum," but it didn't catch on - not that I thought it would. The format is so different, and it's not about discussion, but answering questions.

Anyway, I really like this forum, and I consider it my new home. Hello to all the former Amazonians, some of whom I have talked to since the move. I hope everyone is well!

Peace!


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## CnC Bartok

Josquin13 is MR Simpson, by the way, if anyone missed his appearance here.


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## distantprommer

I have been absent from this forum for a while. Too much going on with me (good and bad) that I just could not even lurk. One question I have, are there more former amazonians now on this forum?


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## Granate

Hi, distantprommer. Unfortunately, none that I can tell from "New Members" area.


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## distantprommer

I am sorry to hear that.


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## Pugg

distantprommer said:


> I am sorry to hear that.


I am sure I saw at least 5 at one time, did you search this topic properly?


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## KenOC

Hi distant! There are quite a few. I'll start a new thread in this forum.


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