# The Mahler Plagiarism Thread



## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

I'll start.






Come on guys, I know there are many more. Mehta said that he spotted stolen melodies in Mahler all the time.

EDIT: *MAHLER 1, FIRST MOVEMENT. Very beginning*


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

I hadn't noticed any before you mentioned this, but to open the batting here's my best effort - the trumpet call from the beginning of Mahler #8 is quite similar to a figure from the Tristan Prelude. Both are also somewhat similar to a figure from Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet.









Edit: in light of below, I don't actually believe this is plagiarism, or indeed that Mahler plagiarised anyone at all beyond the usual subconscious borrowings all artists (I presume) make.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

How about we talk about Beethoven the Plagiarist instead


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Well, there's the opening of the Third Symphony and the finale to Brahms' First. 

But then there are the opening of the Brahms Fourth and a similar passage in thirds in the slow movement of the Hammerklavier sonata.

And the opening measures of Mozart's c-minor serenade, Britten's Young Person's Guide, the second act of Tippett's Midsummer Marriage, and the finale of Brahms' d-minor piano concerto.

Similar progressions in music are common, and a lot easier to come up with independently than, say, opening a new novel with "Call me Ishmael."


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Look, there are lots of little black dots and lines and everything, just like that one Mahler symphony.

PLAGIARISM!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Yo dude, Mozart totally used the diatonic scale D: thats like... the scale that Jay Ess Bok totally used. That makes him like ya know... a total copycat and stuff.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

GGluek said:


> Well, there's the opening of the Third Symphony and the finale to Brahms' First.
> 
> But then there are the opening of the Brahms Fourth and a similar passage in thirds in the slow movement of the Hammerklavier sonata.
> 
> ...


Where in the finale of Brahm's first? I've just listened to the entire to the entire thing and I can't find a match.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> Where in the finale of Brahm's first? I've just listened to the entire to the entire thing and I can't find a match.


The big theme.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Don't forget how he ripped off Bruder Martin in the first symphony.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

jalex said:


> I hadn't noticed any before you mentioned this, but to open the batting here's my best effort - the trumpet call from the beginning of Mahler #8 is quite similar to a figure from the Tristan Prelude. Both are also somewhat similar to a figure from Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet.
> 
> Edit: in light of below, I don't actually believe this is plagiarism, or indeed that Mahler plagiarised anyone at all beyond the usual subconscious borrowings all artists (I presume) make.


These are generic military signals.

Quotation is entirely a legitimate compositional device, in any case. Plagiarism is when someone passes off other people's work as their own.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Wow, you guys are taking this pretty seriously. I don't believe Mahler stole or even (deliberately) quoted the passage I posted. I just noticed that they were similar. I am aware that quotation was (is?) not uncommon and have no problem with its use within reason in composition.


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