# Favourite Pieces in a genre by an English composer



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

What are people's favourites if they are restricted to English composers? I have not explored the by-ways of less prominent composers much, so I am hoping this thread will introduce me to the best works of composers I'm not so familiar with. It did strike me how narrow my choices are.

Cello Concerto: Elgar - no contest
Violin Concerto: Elgar or Walton, probably Elgar on points.
Viola Concerto: Walton - no contest (but I do like Flos Campi - VW)
Piano Concerto: Britten or Vaughan Williams - neither great, prefer VW except for last movement, so he probably gets it.
Oboe Concerto: Vaughan Williams - no contest

Symphony: Elgar 2 or Walton 1 or VW 3, 4, 5 or 6 (depending on mood). Probably Walton if he had come up with a better last movement, so VW 5 gets it unless I'm in a bad mood. I am also fairly partial to Tippett 2.

Choral Work (I'm not into these much): Belshazzar's Feast (Walton) for me, but I guess Dream of Gerontius (Elgar) may be more popular (??), and then there are fans of Britten. I'm also partial to VW's Serenade to Music.

Oh, and my favourite Masque for Dancing is Job (VW)! Surely that's pretty well a symphony.
Also, favourite astronomically themed piece: The Planets (Holst).

Song Cycles (I'm also not into these, but do like - ) Sea Pictures (Elgar)

Funnily enough I couldn't come up with any non-orchestral pieces that sprang to mind. Where are the instrumental or chamber pieces? For example, I've tried a few String Quartets by English composers, but none has resonated. Couldn't really think of any piano sonatas. I'm not familiar with English composers from earlier periods (- but would like to include Handel as English). Please enlighten me.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

If you're going to include Handel as an English composer, his Messiah would deserve a mention as one of the most significant English choral works


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Symphony: Vaughan Williams 5 or Arnold 9 (Bax 6, Moeran)
Piano concerto: Ireland
Violin concerto: Moeran (Bax, Elgar)
Cello concerto: Moeran (Finzi, Bax)
Song cycles: Warlock - The curlew (VW On Wenlock edge)
Requiem: Britten
Chamber works: Bax - Harp quintet


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> If you're going to include Handel as an English composer, his Messiah would deserve a mention as one of the most significant English choral works


Having adopted Handel, I suppose I should have added:

Favourite Concerto Grosso: Op6 No 10.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

The trouble with/for Britten is that he is not a typical English composer (too international in outlook) and many who focus a lot of attention on "English music" tend to leave him aside. Anyway, I am OK with many of the OP's choices but would opt for the Britten Cello Symphony over the Elgar concerto. I'm OK with Britten's piano concerto but if the Fould's Dynamic Triptych counts then it might be a good alternative? For a choral work, Gerontius is fine but (as for Art Rock) the War Requiem probably gets the prize. For song cycles, there are many English candidates but the greatest of them are all by Britten (IMO) and I suppose the Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings must take the prize. Britten must also probably win the quartet prize. 

Strangely, there is no category for opera. Billy Budd? Or something else by Britten.

Going back in time to Purcell and Handel changes the game completely! Going more modern - Birtwistle, Maxwell Davies (best trumpet concerto?) and too many others would also make for some interesting challenges.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Opera: Britten - Peter Grimes 
Clarinet concerto: Finzi
Viola concerto: Walton
Harp concerto: Alwyn
Percussion concerto: MacMillan
String quartets: Bax (Moeran, Britten)
Symphonic poems: Bax - November woods


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> Strangely, there is no category for opera. Billy Budd? Or something else by Britten.


Yes, sorry about that. I don't listen to opera (at all, really). Feel free to include suggestions.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

some more for the list...

Robert Simpson, symphonies and 4tets.
John McCabe piano works, symphonies etc.
David Matthews...symphonies, concertos etc.
Holst, part songs, choral symphony, Hymn of Jesus, Choral songs from the Rig Veda, Ode to Death...etc
Malcom Arnold..symphonies, concertos etc.

@Artrock...you've cheated Art, MacMillan is Scottish.........oh hang on, I think David Matthews is Welsh too...ooops.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> Percussion concerto: MacMillan


Ah. I was going to be a bit mischievous, and make some remarks about how I could have said British composers rather than English but it would have made no difference. That would have annoyed the Scots (and potentially other British nationalities).

The one exception that came to my mind was James MacMillan, who is a fine Scottish composer.

Feel free to include British composers, but be ready for a backlash from the Scots. :lol:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

mikeh375 said:


> @Artrock...you've cheated Art, MacMillan is Scottish.........oh hang on, I think David Matthews is Welsh too...ooops.


Yeah, too much effort to check them all out before posting.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Solo Piano: Lennox Berkeley - Preludes for Piano
Chamber - Elgar and Walton Violin Sonatas - Moeran's Fantasy Quartet for Oboe & Strings
Piano Concerto: Cyril Scott - Piano Concerto no. 1
Violin Concerto: Walton
Symphony: Elgar 1st, Vaughan Williams "London"


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> Yeah, too much effort to check them all out before posting.


it's ok, we now have permission...so...a few more for Al

Malcom Williamson,
Alun Hoddinott
Alexander Goehr
Huw Watkins
Ades
Turnage
Helen Grime
Birtwistle


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I need to get out of here, now. I am not sure that the really big English music fans discriminate between truly major works and interesting side shows! :lol: .... Yes, I know, it's all subjective. But at the same time there is an international critical consensus that is more often right than wrong.

But there is one more category that will be very hotly contested - English music for string orchestra.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> .........* I am not sure that the really big English music fans discriminate between truly major works and interesting side shows! :lol: *.... Yes, I know, it's all subjective. But at the same time there is an international critical consensus that is more often right than wrong.
> 
> But there is one more category that will be very hotly contested - English music for string orchestra.


Of course we do but Al hasn't asked for international success. I agree about English string music, we can do that very well too.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

mikeh375 said:


> Of course we do but Al hasn't asked for international success. I agree about English string music, we can do that very well too.


Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis is a masterpiece by any standards (IMO, of course).


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> I need to get out of here, now. I am not sure that the really big English music fans discriminate between truly major works and interesting side shows! :lol: .... Yes, I know, it's all subjective. But at the same time there is an international critical consensus that is more often right than wrong.
> 
> But there is one more category that will be very hotly contested - English music for string orchestra.


Yes, I didn't go there, but it might be interesting if people include a reference to whether they think any of the works they refer to stand comparison with the rest of the world's efforts.
For example, although I didn't pick it as my favourite, I have it in mind that Elgar's 2nd symphony is a great symphony by any standards. Not a crowded genre, but I also think Walton's viola concerto is up there against any.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Chamber - Elgar and Walton Violin Sonatas - Moeran's Fantasy Quartet for Oboe & Strings
> Violin Concerto: Walton


I rate the above works as comparing well to the best of world's in their particular genre.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I rate about 100 classical music works at 6/6 (best of the best). These include the following by British composers:

Alwyn - Harp concerto
Arnold - Symphony 9
Bax - Symphony 6
Bax - Violin concerto
Bax - November woods
Britten - War requiem
Finzi - Cello concerto
Finzi - Clarinet concerto
Moeran - Violin concerto
Moeran - Cello concerto
Vaughan Williams - Symphony 5
Warlock - The curlew


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> I need to get out of here, now. I am not sure that the really big English music fans discriminate between truly major works and interesting side shows! :lol: .... Yes, I know, it's all subjective. But at the same time there is an international critical consensus that is more often right than wrong.


OK, not to hide it - I am English! One of things we like to boast about is how great we are at self-deprecation (- there's an irony to savour).

To give an example, Bartok wandered around Hungary with Kodaly and listening to folk music. This then heavily affected his "art music", but that is treated seriously (- and rightly so). When VW and his chums pottered around England taking in folk music from there, and when that influenced their output this is then referred to as cowpat music, including (perhaps particularly) by the English.

My point is not that English composers were especially great, but it is to note that over and above that one of the background reasons why English music is so much of a side show internationally may be because so few have ever seriously championed it around the world and regularly programmed it. It is in the English psyche not to do so: English people would think it was in poor taste to champion their own - even if on the quiet they thought they were great. We feel flattered when Bernard Haitink, say, decides to give VW a serious go, and don't automatically think that it is their due as a major series of symphonies.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> Of course we do but Al hasn't asked for international success. I agree about English string music, we can do that very well too.


He was asking for the best/greatest in various categories. I think critical consensus is a better yardstick for anyone among us than our own personal favourites (and I include myself and my own personal favourites). I don't mean you should drop your favourites. I just mean that having a feel for where they probably fit in the grand scheme of things is meaningful if you are going to go beyond another thread of competing favourites lists - threads like that always leave me feeling that no-one is really listening to anyone else.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Eclectic Al said:


> OK, not to hide it - I am English! One of things we like to boast about is how great we are at self-deprecation (- there's an irony to savour).
> 
> To give an example, Bartok wandered around Hungary with Kodaly and listening to folk music. This then heavily affected his "art music", but that is treated seriously (- and rightly so). When VW and his chums pottered around England taking in folk music from there, and when that influenced their output this is then referred to as cowpat music, including (perhaps particularly) by the English.
> 
> My point is not that English composers were especially great, but it is to note that over and above that one of the background reasons why English music is so much of a side show internationally may be because so few have ever seriously championed it around the world and regularly programmed it. It is in the English psyche not to do so: English people would think it was in poor taste to champion their own - even if on the quiet they thought they were great. We feel flattered when Bernard Haitink, say, decides to give VW a serious go, and don't automatically think that it is their due as a major series of symphonies.


Hey, I'm English, too. And for the record I am convinced that Vaughan Williams was a very great composer (and incidentally partly trained by Ravel). My post immediately above might explain more of where I am coming from. And, with English music (much of which is very great - we have had a very good 120 years), there is some truth in a description by one English music critic (sorry, I forget who) of the audience at a concert of English music as "anoraks" - people he didn't see at all the other classical concerts he covered.

And, no: I am not against enthusiasm (its my name!) but do think perspective is important, too. I love much of the same music but I wouldn't be without the one who has probably been the greatest of them all (Britten), who for many just doesn't fit in the narrow category.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> He was asking for the best/greatest in various categories. I think critical consensus is a better yardstick for anyone among us than our own personal favourites (and I include myself and my own personal favourites). I don't mean you should drop your favourites. I just mean that having a feel for where they probably fit in the grand scheme of things is meaningful if you are going to go beyond another thread of competing favourites lists - threads like that always leave me feeling that no-one is really listening to anyone else.


I read the OP slightly differently, but it's not important. I just wanted to correct the assumption implied in your post. 
For the record I couldn't care less about critical consensus although I agree with a lot of it of it. I suppose that inevitably, a musicians critical thinking is going to be different to a laypersons, with some overlaps of course....

EDIT....you're English too! Me you and ArtRock should form an English forum School to promote our standing....


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> He was asking for the best/greatest in various categories.


No he wasn't. Look again at the thread title.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Bulldog said:


> No he wasn't. Look again at the thread title.


Yes. Sorry, but it was indeed another of those "favourite" threads (very consciously chosen to be such, rather than greatest). This is more self-deprecation in that it might be regarded as presumptuous to claim an English work is great, but it might be OK for it to be someone's favourite - especially having already narrowed the horizons to English-only. :lol:

Although this was with the hope that some of the suggestions might chime with me and broaden my horizons towards the "best" pieces from this group of composers - best being judged by the criterion of being someone's favourite as I think that's the best way into something. If someone really likes something then I might perhaps find it an entry point, whereas if they think it is the best then it may require more background awareness, which I have not got.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Oh yeah! (>.<) .... Oh well, it was a good argument while it lasted.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Never mind..................................


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> I read the OP slightly differently, but it's not important. I just wanted to correct the assumption implied in your post.
> For the record I couldn't care less about critical consensus although I agree with a lot of it of it. I suppose that inevitably, a musicians critical thinking is going to be different to a laypersons, with some overlaps of course....
> 
> EDIT....you're English too! Me you and ArtRock should form an English forum School to promote our standing....


That could be fun ... just so long as I don't have to wear an anorak!

The critical consensus can be a very good source of where to cast your ear! Particularly as really getting to know a work takes time: I have spent too much time getting to know works that in the end turn out to be of limited value to me. Of course, it is only a guide and is certainly not foolproof.


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

My favourite English choral work is "Dona Nobis Pacem" by Ralph Vaughan Williams. It was influenced by his having served in the First World War and sets some of Walt Whitman's poetry about the American Civil War.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Alinde said:


> My favourite English choral work is "Dona Nobis Pacem" by Ralph Vaughan Williams. It was influenced by his having served in the First World War and sets some of Walt Whitman's poetry about the American Civil War.


It's a lovely phrase isn't it. The 3rd movement of Honegger's 3rd Symphony is also entitled that way: what a great piece, with an appeal for peace following Dies Irae and De profundis clamavi.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I’m a great fan of English music, and I can trace how this came about. When I lived and worked in England 1986-1988, it wasn’t practical for me to bring along my collection of LPs, so I listened a lot to BBC Radio 3. I heard a ton of English music, most of which was new to me. I was also able to attend some concerts with the English CM friends I made and to discuss classical music with them at the pub and at their homes, where they were starting to replace or augment their LP collections with CDs. They were quite oriented toward English music, and this inspired me to get into American music after I returned to North America, and to transition from LPs to CDs as well.

Anyway, the genres of English music are of course not so straightforward, so in my list of my favorite pieces per genre I will take some liberties in naming genres. This lets me have a long list of favorites!

Guitar Concerto: Malcolm Arnold – Guitar Concerto
Symphonic Poem: Arnold Bax – Tintagel (with November Woods in contention)
Orchestral Work for Young People (?): Benjamin Britten – A Young Person’s Guide to the Orchestra
Solo Keyboard: William Byrd – Fantasia MB62
Solo Lute: Francis Cutting – Greensleeves
Piece for Small Orchestra (?): Frederick Delius – Two Pieces for Small Orchestra
Opera: Frederick Delius – A Village Romeo and Juliet (pace Britten fans)
Symphonic Variations (?): Edward Elgar – Enigma Variations
Rhapsody: Gerald Finzi – A Severn Rhapsody
English Consort Dances: Anthony Holborne – Dances and Airs
Orchestral Suite: Gustav Holst – The Planets
Songs without Words (Orchestral): Gustav Holst – Two Songs without Words
Trumpet Voluntary: Henry Purcell – Trumpet Voluntary (also performed on organ)
Song (vocal and piano): Henry Purcell – Shepherd, Shepherd, Cease Decoying
Mass: John Taverner – Western Wind Mass
Symphony: Ralph Vaughan Williams – No. 1 “A Sea Symphony” (if only one!)
Piano Concerto: Ralph Vaughan Williams – Piano Concerto in C
Symphonic Song Cycle: Ralph Vaughan Williams – On Wenlock Edge
Ballet: Ralph Vaughan Williams – Job, A Masque for Dancing
Overture: Ralph Vaughan Williams – Overture to “The Wasps”
Oboe Concerto: Ralph Vaughan Williams – Oboe Concerto in A Minor
Cello Concerto: William Walton – Cello Concerto
March: William Walton – Orb and Sceptre Coronation March
Symphonic Variations on a Theme: William Walton – Variations on a Theme by Hindemith


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Finzi and Butterworth are worth a listen, as is Herbert Howells.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I would add:

Film score -- *Battle of Britain* by William Walton
Runner up -- *Odd Man Out* by William Alwyn
Music from living composer -- Christopher Gunning *Symphonies 2, 10 and 12*
Modernist symphony -- Robert Simpson *Symphony No. 1*


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

larold said:


> I would add:
> 
> Film score -- *Battle of Britain* by William Walton
> Runner up -- *Odd Man Out* by William Alwyn
> ...


yes...Chris Gunning. Al, you've got a lot of listening to get done.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I struggled for a while with British music because it all kind of sounded like a bunch of meandering, pentatonic scales to me. But now Elgar and Vaughan Williams are among my favorites, and I also hold soft spots for slightly less off-the-beaten-path composers such as Bax, Moeran, Finzi, and others. One that hasn’t clicked for me yet is Britten; I love the War Requiem and am partial to the Horn and Tenor Serenade but mostly his music sounds kind of contrived and pedantic to me. Walton doesn’t do much for me either. Current favorites per genres that I know enough about:

Symphony - Both of Elgar’s are in my top 10 overall symphonies, with RVW 2, 3, and 5 not far behind. Also the Moeran Symphony.
Chamber - Elgar and RVW Piano Quintets, Bax Harp Quintet
Tone poem - Bax Tintagel and November Woods, Delius Florida Suite and Brigg Fair
Concerto - Finzi, Moeran, and Bax Cello Concerti
Choral - Finzi Intimations of Immortality, Britten War Requiem, RVW Serenade to Music, John Rutter Requiem (seriously, that is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever heard)


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Not sure what genre applies - 

Britten - Serenade for Tenor, horn and Strings - wonderful piece.

Also - Britten's - Sea Interludes from Peter Grimes, and "Kiddie Guide" - aka - Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra


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## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

Cello Concerto: Britten, Cello Symphony
Violin Concerto: McCabe 2
Piano Concerto: Peter Dickinson

Symphony: Davies 7, or Bax 6, or RVW 5

Choral Work: Britten, Curlew River 
Song Cycle: RVW, Four poems by Fredegond Shove
Vocal work: Davies, Black Pentecost

Duo: Bax, Violin sonata 2
Trio: Clarke, piano trio 
String quartet: Britten, string quartet 3


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

My favorite Works by English composers are:

George Butterworth's Two English Idylls, The Banks of Green Willow, A 'Shropshire Lad' Rhapsody;
Frederick Delius' Florida Suite, On Hearing the First Cuckoo of Spring, Concerto for Violin & Cello, Cello Concerto, 3 Small Tone Poems, A Song of Summer, The Walk to the Paradise Garden, In a Summer Garden, Piano Concerto;
Gerald Finzi's Clarinet Concerto, Cello Concerto, Romance for String Orchestra;
Herbert Howells' Cello Concerto, Concerto for String Orchestra, The B's, Elegy, The Winchester Service, Music for a Prince;
Ralph Vaughan Williams' The Lark Ascending.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Symphony: God, this is impossible!!! For now, I choose Walton's epic Symphony No. 1 or Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony
Piano Concerto: Arnold - Piano Concerto for 3 hands
Violin Concerto: Britten - Violin Concerto
Cello Concerto: Moeran - Cello Concerto (not a big fan of the Elgar)

Solo piano: Bax - I would choose some of his piano sonatas but right now I don't recall which one

String Quartet: Vaughan Williams - String Quartet No. 2
Piano Quintet: Elgar - Piano Quintet in A minor

Choral work: Vaughan Williams - Dona nobis pacem

Opera: Vaughan Williams - The Pilgrim's Progress


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I struggled for a while with British music because it all kind of sounded like a bunch of meandering, pentatonic scales to me. But now Elgar and Vaughan Williams are among my favorites, and I also hold soft spots for slightly less off-the-beaten-path composers such as Bax, Moeran, Finzi, and others. One that hasn't clicked for me yet is Britten; I love the War Requiem and am partial to the Horn and Tenor Serenade but mostly his music sounds kind of contrived and pedantic to me. Walton doesn't do much for me either. Current favorites per genres that I know enough about:
> 
> Symphony - Both of Elgar's are in my top 10 overall symphonies, with RVW 2, 3, and 5 not far behind. Also the Moeran Symphony.
> Chamber - Elgar and RVW Piano Quintets, Bax Harp Quintet
> ...


I'm not a million miles away from this myself, except that I have not explored the by-ways much. I also don't have much affection for Britten (although there are exceptions - piano and violin concerti, etc) perhaps because I really don't do opera.

Where I would demur is that I think Walton's level of accomplishment from his comparatively small number of major works is very high. He didn't do that much, but all of Violin and Viola concerti, Symphony 1, Belshazzar's feast are excellent works. What do you want from a composer building on the existing heritage: lots of OK works, or a few really good ones? I go for the latter, and think that Walton delivered against that measure.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Favourite (or "Favorite" without the "u"?) Pieces in a genre by an English composer (from an American):

Symphony: Vaughan Williams's _Symphony #2 "A London Symphony"_
Orchestral Suite: Holst's _Planets_
Violin Concerto: Britten's _Violin Concerto_
Piano Concerto: Britten's _Piano Concerto_
Cello Concerto: Elgar's _Cello Concerto_
Guitar Concerto: Malcolm Arnold's _Guitar Concerto_
Oratorio: Handel's _Messiah_ (unless you consider him to be German)
Opera: Purcell's _Dido and Aeneas_
Satire: Walton's _Facade_
Church Music, Songs, Keyboard, etc.: The music of Orlando Gibbons

I really enjoy the music of Orlando Gibbons, maybe the greatest composer of his own time, in England, or anywhere.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Britten's String quartets.
Vaughan Williams' symphonies.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Ralph Vaughan Williams: Symphonies 3, 5 and 8; Oboe Concerto; Suite For Viola and Orchestra; Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus; The Lark Ascending; English Folksong Suite; Charterhouse Suite For Strings; Phantasy Quintet

George Butterworth: A Shropshire Lad; Two English Idylls; The Banks of Green Willow

Ernest Moeran: Symphony; Violin Concerto

Herbert Howells: Suite For Orchestra "The B's"; Three Dances For Violin and Orchestra; Elegy For Viola, String Quartet and String Orchestra; Piano Concerto 2

Sir Charles Stanford: Symphony 3 "Irish"

Cyril Scott: Symphony 1

George Lloyd: Symphony 7

Frederick Delius: Summer Evening


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Brahmsian Colors said:


> Ralph Vaughan Williams: Symphonies 3, 5 and 8; Oboe Concerto; Suite For Viola and Orchestra; Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus; The Lark Ascending; English Folksong Suite; Charterhouse Suite For Strings; Phantasy Quintet
> 
> George Butterworth: A Shropshire Lad; Two English Idylls; The Banks of Green Willow
> 
> ...


Yes. Dives & Lazarus. Beautiful.
Interesting collection of suggestions. Even Stanford appears! Excellent.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> Where I would demur is that I think Walton's level of accomplishment from his comparatively small number of major works is very high. He didn't do that much, but all of Violin and Viola concerti, Symphony 1, Belshazzar's feast are excellent works. What do you want from a composer building on the existing heritage: lots of OK works, or a few really good ones? I go for the latter, and think that Walton delivered against that measure.


I've tried a few times with Walton's 1st symphony which everyone says is amazing, epic, brilliant, etc. and can't hear much in it besides aimless chromatic meandering. Same with the violin and viola concerti. I don't mind Belshazzar's Feast and the cello concerto though.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I've tried a few times with Walton's 1st symphony which everyone says is amazing, epic, brilliant, etc. and can't hear much in it besides aimless chromatic meandering. Same with the violin and viola concerti. I don't mind Belshazzar's Feast and the cello concerto though.


Wow. Fascinating. The major Walton work I can't get is the Cello Concerto. Will have another go. (Although I have a lot of other stuff to get through from this thread!!)


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## Iota (Jun 20, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> But there is one more category that will be very hotly contested - English music for string orchestra.


Indeed. And reading through I see no mention of Tippett's Concerto for Double String Orchestra, an omission I felt compelled to rectify, it being one of the sparkling jewels of said category (imo).


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Iota said:


> Indeed. And reading through I see no mention of Tippett's Concerto for Double String Orchestra, an omission I felt compelled to rectify, it being one of the sparkling jewels of said category (imo).


I have the ASMF CD (Marriner conducting) with the Corelli Fantasia, Little Music and Concerto for Double String Orchestra. Lovely CD.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I've tried a few times with Walton's 1st symphony which everyone says is amazing, epic, brilliant, etc. and can't hear much in it besides aimless chromatic meandering. Same with the violin and viola concerti. I don't mind Belshazzar's Feast and the cello concerto though.


I like that description, "aimless chromatic meandering"! I understand what you mean. When I first heard the work on the radio in 2012, I was intrigued because I'd been aware of its great reputation, yet my impression was just as you described. But as it wasn't an outright unpleasant listening experience, I set myself the goal of finding out if I could ever "get" it. I bought a really good SACD recording - Colin Davis/LSO, 2005, LSO Live - and proceeded to listen to it many times. Melodically it's never been comprehensible to me, but I think I've found a way to follow it in terms of shifting and developing textures and colors. I've ended up liking it a lot, and I even think my deep dive has enhanced my appreciation of other orchestral colorists like Sibelius.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Oh my goodness, yes, what about English pieces for string orchestra, a very English genre in my view. I love the music of Gerald Finzi and hold his Prelude for String Orchestra (Op. 25), Romance for String Orchestra (Op. 11), and Ecologue for Piano and String Orchestra (Op. 10) in very high regard. I picked these up on on a Lyrita CD a few months ago - Boult/London Philharmonic for the first two and Handley/New Philharmonia for the third. Now fixing to spin them again, perfect for a warm and lovely Sunday evening. Grateful for the reminder! And there’s my old favorite, RVW’s Partita for Double String Orchestra, which I have on EMI from Handley/Liverpool. Wonderful gifts to the world from England.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

It took forever for anyone to mention Tippett, but his piano concerto is number one for me, as is his opera The Midsummer Marriage. (The Corelli Fantasia is second or third in the string category -- after Tallis Fantasia and Elgar Introduction and Allegro.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis is a masterpiece by any standards (IMO, of course).


I have to confess that after the statement of the theme I change the station on that one. Also VW's lark takes too long to ascend for my tastes. I think I might've mentioned in the "blind spots" thread that British music after the Renaissance and Baroque is one of mine. Except for the Beatles, Stones, Cream et al of course.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

consuono said:


> I have to confess that after the statement of the theme I change the station on that one. Also VW's lark takes too long to ascend for my tastes. I think I might've mentioned in the "blind spots" thread that British music after the Renaissance and Baroque is one of mine. Except for the Beatles, Stones, Cream et al of course.


Largely agree with you about the lark.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Simplicissimus said:


> I like that description, "aimless chromatic meandering"! I understand what you mean. When I first heard the work on the radio in 2012, I was intrigued because I'd been aware of its great reputation, yet my impression was just as you described. But as it wasn't an outright unpleasant listening experience, I set myself the goal of finding out if I could ever "get" it. I bought a really good SACD recording - Colin Davis/LSO, 2005, LSO Live - and proceeded to listen to it many times. Melodically it's never been comprehensible to me, but I think I've found a way to follow it in terms of shifting and developing textures and colors. I've ended up liking it a lot, and I even think my deep dive has enhanced my appreciation of other orchestral colorists like Sibelius.


For me with that symphony it is all about the rhythm, until the slow movement when I think there's a wealth of bittersweet melody. My bittersweet is perhaps your chromatic meandering. The final movement lets it down, as although Walton could do triumphal music I don't think this movement hits the spot. It seems like a bit of a cheap attempt at victory after the earlier moods of anger and bitterness. I don't get the feeling that the celebratory joy at the end has been earned in any sense. Perhaps it should end with the slow movement and be Walton's unfinished. (I seem to recall that he had trouble with coming up with a finale and composed it quite a bit after the rest. If so, I think that shows. Perhaps the last movement should be a separate piece.)
The earlier Previn recording with the LSO (not the later release with the RPO) is the one that I grew up with, and still a favourite.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Eclectic Al said:


> What.


If you're going to think seriously about British music you need to consider both electroacoustic music (think Jonathan Harvey, Richard Barrett, Trevor Wishart) structured improvisation (think Cornelius Cardew) and opera (Harrison Birtwistle)

In more traditional genres, three names to explore are Michael Finnissy, James Dillon and Laurence Crane.

Your opening post leads me to think that you're not only oblivious to music post 1950, but also to music pre 1800. It's a joke!


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> If you're going to think seriously about British music you need to consider both electroacoustic music (think Jonathan Harvey, Richard Barrett, Trevor Wishart) structured improvisation (think Cornelius Cardew) and opera (Harrison Birtwistle)
> 
> In more traditional genres, three names to explore are Michael Finnissy, James Dillon and Laurence Crane.
> 
> Your opening post leads me to think that you're not only oblivious to music post 1950, but also to music pre 1800. It's a joke!


Someone seems to have got out of bed on the wrong side here.

My attempt was to ask people what their favourites were, in order to broaden my knowledge. I acknowledged explicitly that on looking at the works I mentioned they seemed narrow. Indeed, I think you are too generous to me and it may look like I am barely conscious of music before 1900 or so. I certainly don't think I was indicating any great knowledge on my own part, and the posts in this thread have certainly been interesting to me.

When it comes to earlier music, I enjoy music going back a fair way, but was conscious that among English composers I was not at all knowledgeable - beyond being aware of some names. Hence, suggestions of favourite works from earlier periods would be helpful.

When it comes to later music, I'm willing to be persuaded, but have rarely responded positively to what I have heard of the names you list. Perhaps I'm not willing to put in the work that that might require, or perhaps it's just not for me. Again, though, suggestions of favourite works were what was requested. It's not helpful to be presented with names of composers, when your inference that I am not familiar with their work is valid.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

MarkW said:


> It took forever for anyone to mention Tippett, but his piano concerto is number one for me, as is his opera The Midsummer Marriage. (The Corelli Fantasia is second or third in the string category -- after Tallis Fantasia and Elgar Introduction and Allegro.


All choices I might make! The Tippett piano concerto is a big favourite but many find it too dense.

In general, I have been surprised at how little love there has been for Elgar. I would have expected that his Violin Concerto, symphonies and Dream of Gerontius would all (surely?) be major contenders in their categories. And then you have the Enigma Variations ... .

Other works I am surprised not to be seeing (or maybe I missed them) are Bax's Tintagel and Garden of Fand as well as Bantock's Fifine at the Fair. And then there is Delius ... or is he an honorary French composer?


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

....speaking of Elgar, there are also the two magnificent and large scale Oratorios - 'The Kingdom' and 'The Apostles'. The music makes much use of leitmotif and is quite sublime. Two strong contenders for consideration in the choral section.


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## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

John Stanley Organ and Harpsichord concerti Opus 2 and Opus 10, also trio sonatas opus 1 and opus 4 and Organ voluntaries Opuses 5,6 &7
I see no mention of madrigals nor motets, quite a few English composers thereof like William Byrd John Dowland John Farmer Orlando Gibbons Thomas Morley Thomas Tomkins Thomas Weelkes John Wilbye. many of these also composed in other genre, keyboards, concerto grossi and other orchestral and vocal works.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> ....speaking of Elgar, there are also the two magnificent and large scale Oratorios - 'The Kingdom' and 'The Apostles'. The music makes much use of leitmotif and is quite sublime. Two strong contenders for consideration in the choral section.


Interesting that you place them above Gerontius. Do you have any particular reason(s)?


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> Interesting that you place them above Gerontius. Do you have any particular reason(s)?


 I didn't mean to place them above Gerontius as such, but if pushed, I probably would now I think about it. The scoring is of course wonderful as Elgar was a master orchestrator, but beyond that, the music is deeply moving and possesses such spine-tingling power in some of the leitmotifs. There is a rich interplay of these motifs to support the text and the skill he displays in combining them and using them as a driving narrative in the music is fabulous.

It's such a shame these two works rarely heard imv, as I do think they easily equal Gerontius in terms of artistry and profound expression.
(as an aside I picked up a hard backed, large conductor score for 'The Apostles' dirt cheap because the cover was bound upside down to the score pages....best bargain ever)


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Elgar's symphonies took me a couple listens to get, but once I did I found them very addictive. His scoring was _incredible_ - as rich as Mahler, but with reduced forces. His slow movements drip with bittersweet pathos and there is a seamless alternation of high drama and private introspection. No. 1 with that motto theme that works its way into everything, and No. 2 with that heart-rending funeral march. Genius!


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Trying to stick to English, 20th Century:

Michael Tippet: A Child of our Time (Oratorio)
Ralpha Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis (Music for String Orchestra)
Benjamin Britten: String Quartet No. 3 (String Quartets)
Benjamin Britten: War Requiem (requiems (sort-of))
Herbert Howells: Requiem (requiems, proper ones)
Benjamin Britten: Peter Grimes (opera)
Ralph Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5 (symphonic)
Arthur Bliss: Adam Zero (Ballet)
Gustav Holst: The Planets Suite (Orchestral, non-symphonic)
John Tavener: Hymn for the Dormition of the Mother of God (choral, sacred)
William Walton: Cello Concerto (cello concerto)
Ralph Vaughan Williams: Mass in G minor (mass)
Benjamin Britten: Rejoice in the Lamb (choral,non-sacred(ish))
Benjamin Britten: Phaedra (dramatic cantata)
Benjamin Britten: Noyes Fludde (children's music)
Malcolm Arnold: Clarinet Concerto No. 2 (clarinet concerto)
Herbert Howells: Piano Concerto No. 2 (piano concerto)
William Walton: Violin Concerto (violin concerto)
Richard Rodney Bennet: Saxophone Concerto (saxophone concerto)
Ralph Vaughan Williams: The 100th Psalm [All People that on Earth do dwell] (hymn)
William Mathias: Sir Christèmas (christmas carol, although Mathias was Welsh, which is nearly English)
Herbert Howells: St. Paul's Service (Canticles)
Benjamin Britten: Festival Te Deum (te deums)


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

...anyone mentioned Oliver Knussen yet?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> I didn't mean to place them above Gerontius as such, but if pushed, I probably would now I think about it. The scoring is of course wonderful as Elgar was a master orchestrator, but beyond that, the music is deeply moving and possesses such spine-tingling power in some of the leitmotifs. There is a rich interplay of these motifs to support the text and the skill he displays in combining them and using them as a driving narrative in the music is fabulous.
> 
> It's such a shame these two works rarely heard imv, as I do think they easily equal Gerontius in terms of artistry and profound expression.
> (as an aside I picked up a hard backed, large conductor score for 'The Apostles' dirt cheap because the cover was bound upside down to the score pages....best bargain ever)


Thanks, mikeh. I love Gerontius but always found Apostles and Kingdom leaving me a little bored. But that was a long time ago, and loving Elgar as much as I do (and given your advocacy), I will now have to try again. Are there any particular recordings you find especially good?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

MarkW said:


> It took forever for anyone to mention Tippett, but his piano concerto is number one for me, as is his opera The Midsummer Marriage. (The Corelli Fantasia is second or third in the string category -- after Tallis Fantasia and Elgar Introduction and Allegro.


Tippett's Symphonies are good..I esp enjoy #4, but 2 and 3 are interesting... the Prince Charles Suite is very fine, and quite appealing immediately.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> Thanks, mikeh. I love Gerontius but always found Apostles and Kingdom leaving me a little bored. But that was a long time ago, and loving Elgar as much as I do (and given your advocacy), I will now have to try again. Are there any particular recordings you find especially good?


I only have the Adrian Boult versions but the soloists are beautifully cast. Robert Tear and Benjamin Luxon are particularly fine.
Here's 'The Apostles'....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Apostles-Sir-Edward/dp/B000005GPW/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=elgar+the+apostles&qid=1593437840&sr=8-4

edit...it's on YT here....


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## Iota (Jun 20, 2018)

MarkW said:


> Tippett .. piano concerto .. Corelli Fantasia


Two more beauties there.

If we're talking symphonies, for me Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem belongs in any list.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Iota said:


> Two more beauties there.
> 
> If we're talking symphonies, for me Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem belongs in any list.


oh boy do i wish he'd have written a few more symphonies. As we are on it, might as well mention the choral 'Spring' Symphony.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Symphony I: Sir Arnold Bax (Symphony no. II)
Symphony II: Sir Charles Parry (Symphony no. V)
Symphonic Poem: Philip Sainton (The Island)
Solo Keyboard I: John Ireland (The Almond Trees)
Solo Keyboard II: Cyril Scott (An English Waltz)
Solo Keyboard cycle: Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (Twenty-Four Negro Melodies)
Chamber: Sir Arnold Bax (Fantasy Sonata for Viola and Harp)
Symphonic Variations: Sir Arnold Bax (for piano and orchestra)
Symphonic Variations on a Theme: Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (Variations on an African Air)
Orchestral Suite: Gustav Holst - The Planets
Mass: George Lloyd (Symphonic Mass)
Requiem: John Foulds (A World Requiem)
Choral (misc.): Gerald Finzi (Ode "Intimations of Immortality")
Rhapsody: Sir Charles Stanford (Irish Rhapsody II)
Piano Concerto: Herbert Howells (Piano Concerto I)
Violin Concerto: Sir Arnold Bax
Oboe Concerto: Sir Eugene Goossens
Cello Concerto: Kenneth Leighton
Ballet: Sir Arnold Bax (The Truth About the Russian Dancers)
Overture: Sir Edward Elgar (In the South)
Concert work/misc.: Sir Charles Stanford (Concert Piece for Organ & Orchestra)
Music for film: Sir William Walton (Henry V)


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> All choices I might make! The Tippett piano concerto is a big favourite but many find it too dense.
> 
> In general, I have been surprised at how little love there has been for Elgar. I would have expected that his Violin Concerto, symphonies and Dream of Gerontius would all (surely?) be major contenders in their categories. And then you have the Enigma Variations ... .
> 
> Other works I am surprised not to be seeing (or maybe I missed them) are Bax's Tintagel and Garden of Fand as well as Bantock's Fifine at the Fair. And then there is Delius ... or is he an honorary French composer?


Interesting post - I mentioned Elgar right at the start, and was then a bit surprised about the lack of love - some mentions, but not many (- at least not until you raised it!).
However, you question whether Delius is honorary French, and he hasn't had many mentions. That got me wondering whether Elgar is English enough. Elgar seems to me (at least in the pieces I listen to most, so I couldn't comment on the oratorios, say) very much in the mainstream European romantic tradition. The pieces mainly mentioned in this thread are more biased towards styles which are seen as specifically English. Might that be why he is not coming up as "favourite" in this thread very often?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> I only have the Adrian Boult versions but the soloists are beautifully cast. Robert Tear and Benjamin Luxon are particularly fine.
> Here's 'The Apostles'....
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Apostles-Sir-Edward/dp/B000005GPW/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=elgar+the+apostles&qid=1593437840&sr=8-4
> ...


Thank you - in fact I had them both (the Boult recordings) and dug them out. I'm listening to the Apostles as I write. I can't think why I didn't think much of it!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Eclectic Al said:


> Interesting post - I mentioned Elgar right at the start, and was then a bit surprised about the lack of love - some mentions, but not many (- at least not until you raised it!).
> However, you question whether Delius is honorary French, and he hasn't had many mentions. That got me wondering whether Elgar is English enough. Elgar seems to me (at least in the pieces I listen to most, so I couldn't comment on the oratorios, say) very much in the mainstream European romantic tradition. The pieces mainly mentioned in this thread are more biased towards styles which are seen as specifically English. Might that be why he is not coming up as "favourite" in this thread very often?


Maybe. Elgar did go down well in Germany for a while (early part of the 20th century, I think). But since then there seemed to be a feeling that "foreign" orchestras couldn't do Elgar. It seems like only yesterday that we escaped from that perception. But perhaps he is not English enough for some posters in the thread?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

I'll be honest, the main reason I looked at this thread was to see whether someone would claim Stanford was English. Bingo!

We don't have many well-known composers, so we're keeping him, if you don't mind.


Symphony: hard to choose between Vaughan Williams's 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7
Orchestral: Holst - The Planets
Concerto: Tavener - The Protecting Veil
Opera: Britten - The Turn of the Screw
Film music: Nyman - Wonderland


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Nereffid said:


> I'll be honest, the main reason I looked at this thread was to see whether someone would claim Stanford was English. Bingo!
> 
> We don't have many well-known composers, so we're keeping him, if you don't mind.


We've done the Scottish and Welsh discussion. The Irish dimension adds further spice. This was originally intended to be an English composer discussion, but is has indeed gone somewhat wider on occasion. No offence meant, I am sure. :tiphat:


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Eclectic Al said:


> We've done the Scottish and Welsh discussion. The Irish dimension adds further spice. This was originally intended to be an English composer discussion, but is has indeed gone somewhat wider on occasion. No offence meant, I am sure. :tiphat:


Don't worry, I'm not offended! There's a running joke in Ireland about how whenever an Irish person achieves international success they become British in the eyes of the UK media. This is usually greeted with a shake of the head, a wry smile and the comment "the Brits are at it again..."


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## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

I am really a fan of Byrd, he is a genius. I love his keyboard work, but his vocal music is so ethereal it sends me shivers.

Is there another English composer you'd recommend to me, who lived even earlier than Byrd?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

aioriacont said:


> I am really a fan of Byrd, he is a genius. I love his keyboard work, but his vocal music is so ethereal it sends me shivers.
> 
> Is there another English composer you'd recommend to me, who lived even earlier than Byrd?


There's plenty of vocal music from the likes of (earliest to latest) Power, Dunstable, Frye, Fayrfax, Carver, Taverner, Ludford, Tallis, Tye, Shepherd and Parsons.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Sir Arthur Bliss: Colour Symphony
Piano Concerto
Violin Concerto
Meditations on a theme of John Blow
String Quartet No.2


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Nereffid said:


> There's plenty of vocal music from the likes of (earliest to latest) Power, Dunstable, Frye, Fayrfax, Carver, Taverner, Ludford, Tallis, Tye, Shepherd and Parsons.


Nereffid's valuable list hits most of the big names, & is excellent. I would add John Browne, William Mundy, William Cornysh, Robert White, John Dowland--who was more or less a contemporary of Byrd's, Orlando Gibbons, John Jenkins, and Thomas Tomkins. It's good to see John Dunstable (sometimes Dunstaple), Robert Fayrfax, Robert Carver & Nicholas Ludford get mentioned!--all musical geniuses, and especially Dunstable, who greatly influenced the Burgundian School on the continent--Dufay, Binchois, Busnois, etc., and therefore the later phase of the Franco-Flemish Renaissance, as well (Ockeghem, Desprez, Richafort, Lassus, etc.). If a large quantity of Dunstaple's music had not become lost, & possibly destroyed during the English Restoration, I expect that today he would be known as one of music history's giants. Hopefully, the rest of his opus will all be found one day, perfectly intact...

--One of my favorite English motets is (1) Dunstable's "Veni Sancte Spiritus" (the Hilliard Ensemble's performance is easily my favorite, but I also like the Orlando Consort in this music):






Orlando Consort: Unfortunately, the musical clip is blocked in US: 




I would also add the Old Hall Manuscript to the list--as performed by the Hilliard Ensemble (in one of their very best recordings), and the beautiful Eton Choirbooks--as performed by Harry Christopher & the Sixteen Choir (on 5 CDs), which are well worth exploring, too:

https://www.amazon.com/Hilliard-Ensemble-Old-Hall-Manuscript/dp/B00000DNOA
https://www.amazon.com/Choirbook-Co...=eton+choirbook&qid=1593902610&s=music&sr=1-2

I too am a huge fan of William Byrd's music--especially his masses, motets, consort songs, & underrated keyboard music. Do you know the music of Byrd's teacher, Thomas Tallis? Tallis's two motets, "Spem in Alium" for 8 choirs of 5 voices each (40 voices in all) and "Miserere Nostri" are essential listening! David Wulfstan and the Clerkes of Oxenford, Andrew Parrott and the Taverner Choir, Phillip Cave and the Magnificat Choir, Alastair Dixon and Chappelle du Roi, and Peter Phillips & the Tallis Scholars all made excellent recordings of "Spem in Alium", while Magnificat and the Tallis Scholars offer superb recordings of the Miserere nostri.

--These are two of my favorite English Motets, as well:

(2) Spem in Alium:

Tallis Scholars: 



Taverner Choir: 



Magnificat Choir (available on hybrid SACD & CD): 



Chapelle du Roi: 




(3) Miserere nostri:

Magnificat Choir: While the Tallis Scholars & Chapelle du Roi recordings are first rate, Magnificat's version is the finest performance ever recorded of this work, IMO. It blows me away every time I listen to it. Turn up the volume:






Tallis Scholars: 



Chapelle du Roi: 




--John Sheppard's motet, "Media Vita" also deserves mention, and here the Tallis Scholars still rule: 




--My favorite English Consort Song: Have you heard William Byrd's consort song, "Ye Sacred Muses"? It was written as an elegy or lamentation upon the death of his teacher, Thomas Tallis. Knowing and loving Tallis's music, as I do, I find Byrd's song deeply moving. It never fails to bring tears to my eyes. Michael Chance & Fretwork and the Hilliard Ensemble offer standout performances. I also like Gerard Lesne & Ensemble Orlando Gibbons on Virgin, but Lesne's English pronunciation isn't quite as clear as Chance's (being that he's French; however, Lesne's artistry is special, nonetheless). More recently, Matthew White & Les Voix Baroques are excellent, too:

"Ye sacred Muses, race of Jove,
whom Music's lore delighteth,
Come down from crystal heav'ns above
to earth where sorrow dwelleth, 
In mourning weeds, with tears in eyes:
Tallis is dead, and Music dies."

Michael Chance, & Fretwork:





Hilliard Ensemble: 




Gerard Lesne, Ensemble Orlando Gibbons (full album): 




Matthew White, Les Voix Baroques: 




My two favorite British instrumental consort works are: (1) Dowland's Lachrymae Antiqua Novae, or Seven Teares, and (2) John Coprario's Consort Musicke, or Fantasias:

Jordi Savall, Hesperion XX:



Anthony Rooley, The Consort of Musicke: 



David Douglas, Paul O'Dette, The King's Noyse: 



Jakob Lindberg, Dowland Consort: 




John Coprario, Consort Musicke, Fantasias: Jordi Savall, Hesperion XX: 




Excluding Handel (who is one of my top 5 favorite composers), for me, the above composers were the greatest to ever grace the British Isles, though of course I avidly listen to many other British composers, as well (such as Henry Purcell, William Boyce, William Lawes, Matthew Locke, John Field, Vaughan Williams, Edward Elgar, Gustav Holst, Arnold Bax, Frederic Delius, Benjamin Britten, Oliver Knussen, Robert Simpson, etc.). But I partly agree with Glenn Gould who thought that after Orlando Gibbons music went into a decline, and that a direct link back to a higher and more selfless spirituality in music--which had emanated down from the Middle Ages to Gibbons, became lost or diminished.


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## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

Many/most of my favorites have already been mentioned, but I'm throwing my all-too-lengthy list into the ring anyhow …

*Motets*

John DUNSTAPLE: _Veni sancte spiritus_ (1416)
:: Hilliard Ensemble [EMI '82]

Leonel POWER: _Anima mea liquefacta_ (after 1425)
:: Stimmwerck [Aeolus '07]

John PLUMMER: _Anna mater matris Christi_ (1440?)
:: Hilliard Ensemble [HM]

William CORNYSH: _Ave Maria, mater Dei_ (before 1502)
:: Phillips/Tallis Scholars [Gimell]

Thomas TALLIS: _Lamentations of Jeremiah_ (1560s ?)
:: Deller Consort [Vanguard '55]

Thomas TALLIS: _Spem in alium_ (1573?)
:: Phillips/Tallis Scholars [Gimell '85]

Thomas TALLIS: _Miserere nostri_ (from «Cantiones Sacrae» 1575)
:: Skinner/Alamire [Obsidian '09]

William BYRD: _Ne irascaris Domine … Civitas sancti tui_ (p. 1589)
:: Hilliard Ensemble [Hyperion]

William BYRD: Mass for five voices (1590s ?)
:: Hilliard Ensemble [EMI '83]

*Song*

Henry PURCELL: "Thy hand Belinda … When I am laid in earth" from _Dido & Aeneas_ (1680s)
:: Baker, Lewis, ECO [L'Oiseau-Lyre '61]

Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: "Bredon Hill" from _On Wenlock Edge_ (1909)
:: Partridge, Music Group of London [EMI '70]

Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: _Merciless Beauty_ (1921)
:: Langridge, Endellion Quartet minus viola [EMI]

Benjamin BRITTEN: Serenade for Tenor, Horn & Strings (1943)
:: Brain, Pears, Britten/Boyd Neel String Orchestra [Decca '44]

Benjamin BRITTEN: Canticle II: _Abraham and Isaac_ (1952)
:: Procter, Pears & Britten [Decca]

*Choral*

Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: Mass in G minor (1921)
:: Roger Wagner Chorale [Capitol/Angel LP '60]

*Opera*

Benjamin BRITTEN: _Peter Grimes_ (1945)
:: Britten/ROHCG [Decca '58]

Benjamin BRITTEN: _The Turn of the Screw_ (1954)
:: Britten/English Opera Group [Decca '54]

*Orchestral*

Edward ELGAR: _Enigma Variations_ (1899)
:: Barbirolli/Hallé Orchestra [Nixa/EMI Phoenixa '56]

Edward ELGAR: Introduction and Allegro (1905)
:: Barbirolli/Hallé Orchestra [Nixa/EMI Phoenixa '56]

Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis (1910)
:: Barbirolli/Sinfonia of London [EMI]

Gustav HOLST: _The Planets_ (1916)
:: Boult/Philhamonic Promenade Orchestra & London Philhamonic Choir [Nixa '53]

Peter WARLOCK: _Capriol Suite_ (1926)
:: Dilkes/English Sinfonia [EMI '71]

Gustav HOLST: _Egdon Heath_ (1927)
:: Boult/LPO [Decca '61]

Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS: Symphony No. 5 (1938-43)
:: Koussevitzky/BSO [1947 radio broadcast/Guild]

Michael TIPPETT: Fantasia concertante on a theme of Corelli (1953)
:: Marriner/ASMF [Argo '70]

Harrison BIRTWISTLE: _Carmen Arcadiae Mechanicae Perpetuum_ (1977)
:: Howarth/London Sinfonietta [Collins/NMC '87]

Brian FERNEYHOUGH: _La Chûte d'Icare_ (1988)
:: Rosman, Elision Ensemble [Kairos]

*Band*

Gustav HOLST: Suites for Military Band (1909)
:: Fennell/Eastman Wind Ensemble [Mercury '55]

Gustav HOLST: _A Moorside Suite_ (1928)
:: Howarth/Grimethorpe Colliery Band [Decca]

*Chamber*

Frank BRIDGE: String Quartet No. 3 (1926)
:: Endellion Quartet [Virgin]

Benjamin BRITTEN: String Quartet No. 2 (1945)
:: Sorrel Quartet [Chandos]

Elizabeth MACONCHY: String Quartet No. 5 (1948)
:: Bingham Quartet [Unicorn-Kanchana '89]

Peter Maxwell DAVIES: _Ave Maris Stella_ (1975)
:: The Fires of London [Unicorn-Kanchana '80]


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I like Walton, especially the symphonies.

Frank Bridges' suite The Sea is worthy of comparison to Debussy. His Colours Symphony is also interesting.

VW and Elgar are ingrained but not Britten. He doesn't speak my language outside the 4 Sea Interludes (makes a nice coupling with Bridges.)

I have performed both VW & Elgar in church (VW Old 103rd among others & Elgar Ave verum corpus) and adore vocal music but don't know how people endure The Dream of Gerontius.

I know people do, however.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The colour symphony is by Arthur Bliss though.


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

for piano concertos, Stanford's 2nd piano concerto is remarkably under appreciated in my view.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Alwyn: Symphony No.5
Michael Tippett: Piano Sonata by John Ogden
Britten: A Midsummer Night's Dream, Peter Grimes, string Quartets
Rubbra: Symphony No.6
Finzi: the entire Centenary CD, choral music on Hyperion
Arnold: Symphonies 5-9
VW: Oboe Concerto on the Nimbus label
Bax: Octet, symphonies by Bryden Thomson, piano Sonatas, various tone poems

I haven't listened to Walton, Delius, Elgar, Maxwell Davies, or Birtwistle. I've really only become aware of more than a few English composers in the past ten years.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

larold said:


> I like Walton, especially the symphonies.
> 
> Frank Bridges' suite The Sea is worthy of comparison to Debussy. His Colours Symphony is also interesting.
> 
> ...


Had to make do with Gerontius years ago because I couldn't afford a DG 4 box set of Parsifal :lol:


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

Among the many excellent suggestions I didn't notice the name of John Wilbye - the prolific Elizabethan composer of madrigals. 

Among the numerous composers who set their native tongue to music in that golden age of English music, Wilbye is special to me, as a singer - not only for the beauty of the music and of his polyghony but because his music is in such sympathy with the words.

To mention a few:

Draw on Sweet Night
Sweet Honey-Sucking Bees
Weep, weep mine eyes

But there are loads!


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

starthrower said:


> Alwyn: Symphony No.5
> Michael Tippett: Piano Sonata by John Ogden
> Britten: A Midsummer Night's Dream, Peter Grimes, string Quartets
> Rubbra: Symphony No.6
> ...


I struggle with Delius. He seems like one of those composers who is not going anywhere: an atmosphere but no action.
Walton: Symphony 1, Violin Concerto, Viola Concerto, and Belshazzar's Feast for work for me. Rhythmic energy, and touches of pathos in some lovely melodies.
Elgar: Symphony 2 (and 1 is OK), Violin concerto, Cello concerto, Introduction & Allegro, Serenade for Strings. Love them all. Mainstream masterpieces.
Birtwistle and Maxwell Davies have never been for me, because my tastes are too conservative. If someone could suggest the best way in to either of those for someone who generally doesn't stray into anything too "modern" then that would be gratefully received.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

There's a good symphony CD out there with Maxwell Davies, and the Polish composer Panufnik. Could be a good introduction to both. I'm definitely a Panufnik fan. His bassoon concerto is great!

I suppose Tippett is the other English modernist but I haven't really fallen in love with much of his stuff. And Jonathan Harvey is even more out there.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

starthrower said:


> There's a good symphony CD out there with Maxwell Davies, and the Polish composer Panufnik. Could be a good introduction to both. I'm definitely a Panufnik fan. His bassoon concerto is great!
> 
> I suppose Tippett is the other English modernist but I haven't really fallen in love with much of his stuff. And Jonathan Harvey is even more out there.


I like Tippett's Symphony 2 in particular. The Fantasia Concertante on a Theme of Corelli, Concerto for Double String Orchestra and Little Music are great fun (the ASMF disc with Marriner has them all), but they're certainly not modernist! That's a compliment in my book, though.


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Concerto: Elgar Cello Concerto
Symphony: Vaughan Williams 4
Variations: Elgar Enigma
Tone Poem: Bax Tintagel
Choral: Vaughan Williams Toward the Unknown Region
Overture: Elgar In the South
Opera: Britten Peter Grimes
Cantata: Walton Belshazzar’s Feast


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