# Wagner Recommendations



## hiroica (Aug 31, 2015)

Just started delving into Wagner. I'm not a huge fan so far of opera which is mainly what he wrote. However, his preludes and overtures are some of the best pieces I've ever heard, especially in regards to the chord progressions. I know that there are orchestral versions of Wagner operas and I'm not interested in those recommendations. What I'm wondering is this. I've heard some pieces that have singing, yet also have lengthy instrumental sections ie Act-1 - He! Ho! Waldhuter ihr, Schlafhuter mitsammen, so wacht doch mindest am Morgen! from Parsifal. Can anyone recommend some of the best non prelude or overture pieces that you think I may love??
ps. One of the best things I've ever heard in my LIFE is the prelude to Lohengrin...Wow!!!

thanks!!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

this one


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hiroica said:


> Just started delving into Wagner. I'm not a huge fan so far of opera which is mainly what he wrote. However, his preludes and overtures are some of the best pieces I've ever heard, especially in regards to the chord progressions. I know that there are orchestral versions of Wagner operas and I'm not interested in those recommendations. What I'm wondering is this. I've heard some pieces that have singing, yet also have lengthy instrumental sections ie Act-1 - He! Ho! Waldhuter ihr, Schlafhuter mitsammen, so wacht doch mindest am Morgen! from Parsifal. Can anyone recommend some of the best non prelude or overture pieces that you think I may love??
> ps. One of the best things I've ever heard in my LIFE is the prelude to Lohengrin...Wow!!!
> 
> thanks!!


You're looking for extended excerpts with singing but also prominent orchestral parts? There are tons of those, although they often don't have distinct beginnings and endings. Here are some:

_Der Fliegende Hollander:_ Act One: Overture; aria "die Frist ist um." Act Two: Senta's Ballad. Act Three: Opening scene with sailor's dance and choruses.

_Tannhauser:_ Act One: Overture and Venusberg Music. Act Two: Prelude and Elisabeth's aria "Dich, teure Halle." Entrance of the guests (choral).

_Der Ring des Nibelungen: Das Rheingold:_ Prelude and opening scene.

_Die Walkure:_ Act One prelude and opening scene (lots of beautiful orchestral writing); Siegmund's "Wintersturme" aria to the end of the act. Act Two: Prelude and Brunnhilde's battle cry. Act Three: Opening scene, "Ride of the Valkyries" with vocal parts; final scene, "Wotan's Farewell" and "Magic Fire Music" (one of Wagner's greatest scenes).

_Siegfried:_ Act One: Siegfried's forging song. Act Two: the "Forest Murmurs." Act Three: All of it, from the stormy prelude to the ecstatic love duet. There are exciting orchestral passages along the way.

_Gotterdammerung:_ Prologue duet and "Siegfried's Rhine Journey"; Hagen's watch on the Rhine. Act Two: Hagen's call to the vassals, with great choral work. Act Three: Siegfried's death and funeral music; Brunnhilde's immolation scene. 
_
Tristan und Isolde:_ You probably know the prelude already. Act Two: Love duet -"O sink hernieder, Nacht der Liebe" to the end of the duet. Act Three: Powerful prelude and English horn solo. Isolde's "Liebestod," with singer.

_Die Meistersinger:_ You probably know the Act One prelude. Act Three: Prelude; Quintet; Walther's "Prize Song."

_Parsifal:_ You probably know the prelude. Act One: "Transformation Music" through the temple scene to the end of the act. Act Two: prelude, flower maiden scene, Kundry's "Ich sah das Kind," Parsifal's "Amfortas! Die Wunde!" Act Three: Prelude; Good Friday Spell; Transformation Music and Titurel's funeral procession to the end.

It may be hard to find some of these except on complete recordings of the operas, since Wagner is difficult to slice up. But why not listen to the operas whole? They're incredibly rich in those wonderful "chord progressions" you like, and you may find yourself enlarging your ideas about what opera can be.

P.S. I'm with you on the prelude to _Lohengrin!_


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

what recommend on Wagner since the man wrote only a dozen of operas... must see all of them.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I'd recommend to listen to at least one entire opera, and I'd pick Lohengrin as a starting point (you already like the prélude) which is misteriously absent in Woodduck's comprehensive list 

It's really filled with gorgeous orchestral parts: arrival of the swan, Lohengrin-Telramund duel till the end of act 1, wedding procession (act 2), prélude and bridal chorus, orchestral interlude before the final scene, Lohengrin's Gralserzählung "In fernen Land", finale (act 3).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GioCar said:


> I'd recommend to listen to at least one entire opera, and I'd pick Lohengrin as a starting point (you already like the prélude) which is misteriously absent in Woodduck's comprehensive list
> 
> It's really filled with gorgeous orchestral parts: arrival of the swan, Lohengrin-Telramund duel till the end of act 1, wedding procession (act 2), prélude and bridal chorus, orchestral interlude before the final scene, Lohengrin's Gralserzählung "In fernen Land", finale (act 3).


Heh heh. Thanks for supplementing my list. I did that late last night and must have have fallen asleep between _Tannhauser_ and the _Ring._

Some of my favorite parts of _Lohengrin,_ besides the prelude, are some you don't mention: the prelude to Act Two and the Ortrud-Telramund conversation, the Elsa-Ortrud dialogue beginning with "Euch Luften" and including that incredible long melody in the violins, and Ortrud's "Entweihte Gotter." I find the wicked characters in this opera more interesting than the nice ones, partly because their music is more suggestive of the later Wagner.

:tiphat:


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Start at 47:40, until you get bored I guess.

Start at 2:12:45 to the end.

Two of my favorite scenes in Wagner. I'd name them but I have no idea what you'd call them.

Edit: Woodduck didn't leave much of Siegfried to recommend, but I think the first 20 minutes or so, until Siegfried runs off into the forest, is also very listenable on its own.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If I were to choose a single act of the fully mature Wagner operas as a starting point, it would be act one of Walkure which, as Woodduck has mentioned, has a wealth of interesting and captivating sections, especially the last ~25minutes. My second choice would be act 3 of Meistersinger although that is almost 2 hours long!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> Start at 47:40, until you get bored I guess.
> 
> Start at 2:12:45 to the end.


The Chereau/Bayreuth production is _not_ the place to begin exploring Wagner. In fact, it is not Wagner, but a director's eccentric commentary on Wagner, and it often violates the composer's dramatic intentions and contradicts the intrinsic qualities of the music. Good thing you didn't recommend starting at the beginning, or it would be necessary to warn a Wagner newbie that there are no Victorian prostitutes or modern hydroelectric dams in the _Ring_.

I would urge a beginner to let the music express it's own moods and meanings, then investigate the libretti and scenarios of the operas as given us by the composer, and then look at different productions and see how well they represent Wagner's artistic visions.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The Chereau/Bayreuth production is _not_ the place to begin exploring Wagner. In fact, it is not Wagner, but a director's eccentric commentary on Wagner, and it violates the composer's dramatic intentions and contradicts the intrinsic qualities of the music. Good thing you didn't recommend starting at the beginning, or it would be necessary to warn a Wagner newbie that there are no Victorian prostitutes or modern hydroelectric dams in the _Ring_.
> 
> I would urge a beginner to let the music express it's own moods and meanings, then investigate the libretti and scenarios of the operas as given us by the composer, and then look at different productions and see how well they represent Wagner's artistic visions.


Eh. I started with that version and it didn't bother me. I agree that the opening of Rheingold is handled very poorly in that production, but I don't think anything else is quite as strange. Wotan wears a tux and everyone stands on metal floors instead of grass. There are no spaceships or clowns. Then again I haven't watched Gotterdamerung yet, so maybe I'm in for some surprises.

If the OP thinks that version is too weird then by all means watch another one. I linked that one because it comes up first when you type Rheingold into youtube.

Besides, if the OP is doing the excerpt thing I don't think the visuals matter as much. Speaking of which, I tried excerpt selection as a Wagner newbie and I absolutely hated it and highly recommend against it. Some of the best music is woven between dialogue that will be annoying and meaningless if you don't have the context. Enjoying Wagner as "pure music," the way you might a playlist of Mozart arias, is not possible, at least not for me (overtures and interludes excepted, obviously).

Enter expecting and ready to enjoy a narrative. If you enter, like I did, ready to take mental note of the "talking parts" vs the "music parts" you'll get frustrated quick.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The first disc of Wagner I got was orchestral highlights conducted by Knappersbusch. But Wagner wrote operas not orchestral stuff. My best introduction was highlights from Gotterdamerung on the Solti version. This opera is actually somewhat a throwback for Wagner as it tends towards set pieces. But good for starters.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> Eh. I started with that version and it didn't bother me. I agree that the opening of Rheingold is handled very poorly in that production, but I don't think anything else is quite as strange. Wotan wears a tux and everyone stands on metal floors instead of grass. There are no spaceships or clowns. Then again I haven't watched Gotterdamerung yet, so maybe I'm in for some surprises.
> 
> If the OP thinks that version is too weird then by all means watch another one. I linked that one because it comes up first when you type Rheingold into youtube.
> 
> ...


We all find our own way into a composer. I agree that opera should be enjoyed as musical drama; Wagner thought so too. But if you're fascinated by the sound of the music there's no reason not to sample it before taking the plunge, which hiroica apparently wants to do. Maybe you don't find Wagner's music rewarding on its own, but as a young listener I enjoyed large chunks of it immensely, with and without singing, before sitting down to a complete opera, finding the rich chromatic harmony and sheer sonority of it thrilling and evocative of all sorts of moods and images. I recommend approaching Wagner in whatever way appeals, and when it's time for the integrated theatrical experience, look for a more or less traditional production that won't have you wondering why the words and music are depicting one thing and the staging another.


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## hiroica (Aug 31, 2015)

Wow! I should have wished for a million dollars! These are great suggestions everyone, thank you!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Get the Fritz Reiner/Chicago Symphony compilation of great Wagner orchestral excerpts.

The Siegfried's Rhine Journey in particular from Reiner/CSO is to absolutely die for!


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## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)




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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I've long loved "Der Welt", near the end of Scene 1 in Das Rheingold and until the end of the scene. There's a longish instrumental section there that ends the scene, but the whole thing is unmissable. I'd recommend listening to Furtwangler's 1953 RAI recording for that passage.

Another favorite that hasn't been mentioned yet is the music starting at "O König, das kann ich dir nicht sagen", rather near the end of Act II in Tristan und Isolde. You could listen from that point to the end of the act. The ending of that act is powerful.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Parsifal, despite being Wagner's last opera it is quite an accessible piece showing the best of Wagner.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't think anyone's mentioned _"Morgenröte"_ from _Lohengrin_ Act 3 yet? It's an absolute blast. Just try listening to it without smiling or moving about!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Parsifal, despite being Wagner's last opera it is quite an accessible piece showing the best of Wagner.


_Parsifal_ is the most fanatically loved and fanatically hated of Wagner's operas. It is either sublime and soul-shaking or sanctimonious and boring. I'd be cautious about recommending total immersion to a newcomer, but at some point the rite of passage is necessary. You may never be the same - but if you are, come back in a year or two. It'll wait till your ready.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> I don't think anyone's mentioned _"Morgenröte"_ from _Lohengrin_ Act 3 yet? It's an absolute blast. Just try listening to it without smiling or moving about!


Where is that? I don't recognize the word from the libretto.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Where is that? I don't recognize the word from the libretto.


No, it's the name of the instrumental bit before the King speaks to the Brabantians. (_"Hab Dank, ihr liebe von Brabant..."_) At least it's named like that in my recording...


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Tristan und Isolde has so little plot over its four hours that it's almost like a concerto for voice rather than a conventional opera.






The words here are virtually irrelevant, let the voices be instruments of the orchestra. Let Wagner bathe you in the splendour of the sound.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Couchie said:


> Tristan und Isolde has so little plot over its four hours that it's almost like a concerto for voice rather than a conventional opera.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's hard to be bathed in the splendor of the sound when I'm wondering what those people are up to, walking around in what looks like an armor factory warehouse, and why what they're doing has no relation whatever to what they're saying. Does this picture have the wrong soundtrack?

This is so different from operas in which lovers have romantic trysts and embrace passionately in castle gardens and such. This couple appear to be wondering whether they should have worn protection, or whether they were right to leave the kids with that new babysitter. Well, its nice that that distant voice in the middle of the show allows us to leave the confused couple for a moment and take an interesting tour of the warehouse. Looks like quality mass-produced armor.

Hey! Maybe they're industrial spies, and the cops with cool uniforms catch them at the end. At least they get to hold hands before they're arrested.

Anyway, I like the soundtrack.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> It's hard to be bathed in the splendor of the sound when I'm wondering what those people are up to, walking around in what looks like an armor factory warehouse, and why what they're doing has no relation whatever to what they're saying. Does this picture have the wrong soundtrack?
> 
> This is so different from operas in which lovers have romantic trysts and embrace passionately in castle gardens and such. This couple appear to be wondering whether they should have worn protection, or whether they were right to leave the kids with that new babysitter. Well, its nice that that distant voice in the middle of the show allows us to leave the confused couple for a moment and take an interesting tour of the warehouse. Looks like quality mass-produced armor.
> 
> ...


I conceive of this staging as being externalizations of their inner psychology rather than actual settings. In that framework I can appreciate it, although I wouldn't say I prefer it. It at least refrains from being outright stupid. I do love and agree with how this reviewer put it: 

_"Act I takes place in a stark, simple boxlike set in browns and golds, with Isolde's chamber appearing as no more than a recessed section at the front of the raked stage. All the characters wear severe black cassocks, along with odd but strangely arresting clear plastic yokes which signify their enthrallment to the mundane world of obligations and social ties (the lovers remove theirs upon drinking the love potion). The great second act love duet takes place, not in a garden, but amidst rows of armored breastplates, suggesting an armory or a graveyard, and perhaps indicating the soulless uniformity against which the lovers try to carve out their fragile union. The lovers are still in black, but now wear more flowing robes with blue accents that effectively match the colored streaks in their hair. In keeping with Muller's cooler view, the rapturous meeting of the lovers is studiously underplayed and they remain reticent about making actual contact, but nonetheless at key moments the camera closes in on striking, still tableaus of them sitting back to back or in each other's arms. The bleak final act is set in a large yet claustrophic box strewn with rubble, the characters dressed in dirty, ragged coats. It's Wagner by way of Samuel Beckett's "Endgame," a notion brilliantly crystallized in the presence of a blind watchman, evoking the utter futility of Tristan's longing for Isolde. Towards the end of the opera, Muller shows his disdain for Wagner's rather hasty fight sequences by rendering them in what has to be the most perfunctory stage combat ever seen. But Meier's final liebestod, rapturously sung as she stands in a luminous golden gown against a glowing gold square, ends the performance on an image of sublime, ethereal beauty reminiscent of early Italian Renaissance religious iconography."_

Meier herself was so opposed to the cold staging that she quarrelled constantly with the stage director Muller over it. As we know, Bayreuth management as of late prioritizes infamous stage directors over singers and so Meier has refused to perform there since.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

hiroica said:


> Wow! I should have wished for a million dollars! These are great suggestions everyone, thank you!!!


That's right, asking advice is cheap, however now you have to take control on your wallet


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Couchie said:


> I conceive of this staging as being externalizations of their inner psychology rather than actual settings. In that framework I can appreciate it, although I wouldn't say I prefer it. It at least refrains from being outright stupid. I do love and agree with how this reviewer put it:
> 
> _"Act I takes place in a stark, simple boxlike set in browns and golds, with Isolde's chamber appearing as no more than a recessed section at the front of the raked stage. All the characters wear severe black cassocks, along with odd but strangely arresting clear plastic yokes which signify their enthrallment to the mundane world of obligations and social ties (the lovers remove theirs upon drinking the love potion). The great second act love duet takes place, not in a garden, but amidst rows of armored breastplates, suggesting an armory or a graveyard, and perhaps indicating the soulless uniformity against which the lovers try to carve out their fragile union. The lovers are still in black, but now wear more flowing robes with blue accents that effectively match the colored streaks in their hair. In keeping with Muller's cooler view, the rapturous meeting of the lovers is studiously underplayed and they remain reticent about making actual contact, but nonetheless at key moments the camera closes in on striking, still tableaus of them sitting back to back or in each other's arms. The bleak final act is set in a large yet claustrophic box strewn with rubble, the characters dressed in dirty, ragged coats. It's Wagner by way of Samuel Beckett's "Endgame," a notion brilliantly crystallized in the presence of a blind watchman, evoking the utter futility of Tristan's longing for Isolde. Towards the end of the opera, Muller shows his disdain for Wagner's rather hasty fight sequences by rendering them in what has to be the most perfunctory stage combat ever seen. But Meier's final liebestod, rapturously sung as she stands in a luminous golden gown against a glowing gold square, ends the performance on an image of sublime, ethereal beauty reminiscent of early Italian Renaissance religious iconography."_
> 
> Meier herself was so opposed to the cold staging that she quarrelled constantly with the stage director Muller over it. As we know, Bayreuth management as of late prioritizes infamous stage directors over singers and so Meier has refused to perform there since.


That's an interesting analysis. More interesting, I think, than the dismal production it purports to describe. Meier was (she's no longer singing, I think) an intelligent artist. I suspect she saw what was missing here, and I admire her for taking a stand.

The idea that that staging represents the characters' psychological states is one I can't agree with. The psychology of the characters is very well expressed in the music and libretto (who was better at that than Wagner?), and should be fleshed out in the singing and acting. I haven't seen the other scenes in this production (except for the "Liebestod"), but the acting of this scene looked so blank, frigid and, frankly, dull to me that, as I pointed out, the sensuous and desperately passionate score seemed to belong to a different opera. I think what this staging represents is not Tristan and Isolde's psychology but its subordination to a director's generalized concept of their situation - what the reviewer calls the "soulless uniformity against which the lovers try to carve out their fragile union." Unfortunately, that isn't what this scene is about. Wagner gave us a whole first act about the harsh "day world" in which the lovers had to be "reticent." By contrast, their nocturnal tryst in Cornwall is their only chance to test the reality of their illusion of bliss, and if we don't see them nearly lose themselves in it Brangaene's warning from the tower is meaningless, as is the cruel day breaking in on them again. The meaning of these two people's lives as they try to negotiate the worlds of "day" and "night" is fully expressed in Wagner's libretto and score, and is only diminished by the loss of the contrast of worlds which his specified settings represent to the eye and mind. And of course the musical poetry of night breezes and hunting horns and moonlight simply falls into a black hole. Wagner never meant such beauty ironically.

The more I see of these "concept" productions, the more impressive appears the acuteness of Wagner's vision, and his precise understanding of how to communicate it. So much is implicit in the music. These directors need to get out of their clever little heads and listen.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> _Parsifal_ is the most fanatically loved and fanatically hated of Wagner's operas. It is either sublime and soul-shaking or sanctimonious and boring. I'd be cautious about recommending total immersion to a newcomer, but at some point the rite of passage is necessary. You may never be the same - but if you are, come back in a year or two. It'll wait till your ready.


Agree, that's a very fair point.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The Chereau/Bayreuth production is _not_ the place to begin exploring Wagner. In fact, it is not Wagner, but a director's eccentric commentary on Wagner, and it often violates the composer's dramatic intentions and contradicts the intrinsic qualities of the music. Good thing you didn't recommend starting at the beginning, or it would be necessary to warn a Wagner newbie that there are no Victorian prostitutes or modern hydroelectric dams in the _Ring_.
> 
> I would urge a beginner to let the music express it's own moods and meanings, then investigate the libretti and scenarios of the operas as given us by the composer, and then look at different productions and see how well they represent Wagner's artistic visions.


This whole production, all four operas, was my first introduction into the ring cycle. I really loved it! I thought the beginning with the dam and all the mist and that was really spooky and mystical. Granted, this may be because I had nothing to compare it to and I had no idea what the story was at the time--as I don't prefer to read synopses before watching an opera. In any case, this is the ONLY production of the full ring on youtube that includes subtitles. So if one wants to check the ring out without spending money on something they may not like... I don't see why there's anything wrong with this production. Certainly, I was able to understand the gist of the story by watching it, and the music was awesome. All this is said with the caveat that I haven't seen very many ring productions, but the fact is, I enjoyed it.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> That's an interesting analysis. More interesting, I think, than the dismal production it purports to describe. Meier was (she's no longer singing, I think) an intelligent artist. I suspect she saw what was missing here, and I admire her for taking a stand.
> 
> The idea that that staging represents the characters' psychological states is one I can't agree with. The psychology of the characters is very well expressed in the music and libretto (who was better at that than Wagner?), and should be fleshed out in the singing and acting. I haven't seen the other scenes in this production (except for the "Liebestod"), but the acting of this scene looked so blank, frigid and, frankly, dull to me that, as I pointed out, the sensuous and desperately passionate score seemed to belong to a different opera. I think what this staging represents is not Tristan and Isolde's psychology but its subordination to a director's generalized concept of their situation - what the reviewer calls the "soulless uniformity against which the lovers try to carve out their fragile union." Unfortunately, that isn't what this scene is about. Wagner gave us a whole first act about the harsh "day world" in which the lovers had to be "reticent." By contrast, their nocturnal tryst in Cornwall is their only chance to test the reality of their illusion of bliss, and if we don't see them nearly lose themselves in it Brangaene's warning from the tower is meaningless, as is the cruel day breaking in on them again. The meaning of these two people's lives as they try to negotiate the worlds of "day" and "night" is fully expressed in Wagner's libretto and score, and is only diminished by the loss of the contrast of worlds which his specified settings represent to the eye and mind. And of course the musical poetry of night breezes and hunting horns and moonlight simply falls into a black hole. Wagner never meant such beauty ironically.
> 
> The more I see of these "concept" productions, the more impressive appears the acuteness of Wagner's vision, and his precise understanding of how to communicate it. So much is implicit in the music. These directors need to get out of their clever little heads and listen.


Well if I could take Meier and Jerusalem's performance and plop it into a more conventional set and stage direction, I would. But that's merely an ideal, and if we want to judge everything against our preconceived ideals, we're in for a life of bitter disappointment. I was also adverse to this Tristan when I was just watching clips of it on Youtube, but I did finally buy the DVD and it simply works on its own terms if you set aside your expectations of being presented with pre-war Bayreuth sets.

It's heads and tails above the other DVDs, which range from majorly deficient to outright unwatchable. Act II of the Ponnelle Tristan is superb, the end of Act III makes me want to jump off a bridge. The Glyndebourne Tristan cuts Act II, and therefore instantly disqualifies itself. The Munich polka-dot-dress-cruise-ship-and-shaving-cream Tristan I prefer to pretend Meier never participated in. The more recent Bayreuth production with Theorin is a passionless mess from beginning to end. The Heppner/Eaglen Met Tristan has all the charm of two walruses falling in love. The Oliver Py production filmed at Geneva is not so much a performance as an incomprehensible desecration, filmed by camcorder, partially in night vision (???) and I threw it out in a fit of rage. The Jones/Kollo Tristan is the only traditional production, but it ought to have been set in a senior's home.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Dedalus said:


> This whole production, all four operas, was my first introduction into the ring cycle. I really loved it! I thought the beginning with the dam and all the mist and that was really spooky and mystical. Granted, this may be because I had nothing to compare it to and I had no idea what the story was at the time--as I don't prefer to read synopses before watching an opera. In any case, this is the ONLY production of the full ring on youtube that includes subtitles. So if one wants to check the ring out without spending money on something they may not like... I don't see why there's anything wrong with this production. Certainly, I was able to understand the gist of the story by watching it, and the music was awesome. All this is said with the caveat that I haven't seen very many ring productions, but the fact is, I enjoyed it.


There's a lot to recommend in the Chereau production, not least the intense and well-directed acting, which beats so much of the stilted and lifeless posing that passes for acting in Wagner in many productions. Which is such a shame, because if there's any opera composer who creates a spectrum of opportunity for actors/actresses to spread their wings, its Wagner. There's just so much potential in the characters an potent emotions contained in the music.

But still, I'm glad the Chereau production wasn't an introduction for me. It's a contortion of the opera, and even without reading a synopses I would have surely been confused on some incongruities between the words being sung and the action on the stage, not to mention just a general discord between the mood and feel of much of the music and the staging. I'm happy my first introduction to the work was through listening to the cd and following along with the libretto and letting my imagination bring the characters and settings to life...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Couchie said:


> Well if I could take Meier and Jerusalem's performance and plop it into a more conventional set and stage direction, I would. But that's merely an ideal, and if we want to judge everything against our preconceived ideals, we're in for a life of bitter disappointment. I was also adverse to this Tristan when I was just watching clips of it on Youtube, but I did finally buy the DVD and it simply works on its own terms if you set aside your expectations of being presented with pre-war Bayreuth sets.
> 
> It's heads and tails above the other DVDs, which range from majorly deficient to outright unwatchable. Act II of the Ponnelle Tristan is superb, the end of Act III makes me want to jump off a bridge. The Glyndebourne Tristan cuts Act II, and therefore instantly disqualifies itself. The Munich polka-dot-dress-cruise-ship-and-shaving-cream Tristan I prefer to pretend Meier never participated in. The more recent Bayreuth production with Theorin is a passionless mess from beginning to end. The Heppner/Eaglen Met Tristan has all the charm of two walruses falling in love. The Oliver Py production filmed at Geneva is not so much a performance as an incomprehensible desecration, filmed by camcorder, partially in night vision (???) and I threw it out in a fit of rage. The Jones/Kollo Tristan is the only traditional production, but it ought to have been set in a senior's home.


Sadly, I have to agree that most Wagner productions are disappointing in one way or another. I wouldn't agree that we have to go back to prewar naturalism or Romantic painted backdrops to be true to Wagner and to bring out the real meaning of his works. After all, Wagner wasn't entirely satisfied with the theatrical art of his own day, and would certainly have welcomed many of the technical and aesthetic innovations that came after his death. I fear we're just sadly poor in theatrical directors and designers who understand the premises of Wagner's art and who are both interested in letting his work speak for itself and capable of presenting it in a manner both faithful and unhackneyed. Wagner's art is for all time, but the postmodern sensibility of our "high culture" elite is fundamentally contemptuous of epic, Romantic mythicism, or any art designed primarily to persuade us through our emotions, which Wagner said explicitly that he wanted to do. Only popular culture retains any remnant of that sensibility (which we should expect, since human nature can't be completely denied by any culture, no matter how "sophisticated").

If we don't _believe_ in Wagner's work, we just aren't going to _see_ it onstage, and we'll have to settle for self-conscious, self-aggrandizing, incongruous entertainments ranging from the cerebral to the bizarre. Even, pathetically, in Wagner's own theater.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

What got me started on my Wagner voyage umpteen years ago was the prelude to Tristan and Isolde. I'd come home early to study for an exam one day and had turned the radio on quietly. A piece of music began and after 2 to 3 minutes I stopped working and turned the volume up. I was mesmerised. It was the prelude to T & I. Rushed out on the weekend and bought the full recording and have never looked back. So my recommendation would be to start here.


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## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

I am search for the next great recording... both Solti and Levine are instrumental to me.


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