# Does anyone not like their own music the best in here?



## regenmusic

It's kind of a funny subject, and it would be interesting if anyone answered
that they like another TC's music better than their own.

I think it might give one pause for some humility, which is a good thing.
"The humble improve." I think this is why some stop releasing what they
compose, because they build up their early work in their head so much that they think
their newer works will not match up. 

I also wonder how much some want to hear comments on how to improve
their work or what others really think. Again, not necessarily a bad thing,
the problem with criticism is that unless you are a professional or a student
you rarely get it. It's usually people telling you they like your work. And then
how do you know if they are serious or if their opinion is valuable unless you
try to sell it?


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## musicrom

regenmusic said:


> It's kind of a funny subject, and it would be interesting if anyone answered
> that they like another TC's music better than their own.
> 
> I think it might give one pause for some humility, which is a good thing.
> "The humble improve." I think this is why some stop releasing what they
> compose, because they build up their early work in their head so much that they think
> their newer works will not match up.
> 
> I also wonder how much some want to hear comments on how to improve
> their work or what others really think. Again, not necessarily a bad thing,
> the problem with criticism is that unless you are a professional or a student
> you rarely get it. It's usually people telling you they like your work. And then
> how do you know if they are serious or if their opinion is valuable unless you
> try to sell it?


I definitely don't think my own music is the best here, not even close. Of course, I have no formal training in composition, or even any kind of music theory, so I find writing even a decent piece challenging. There are many on TC with much more experience than myself, and I'm under no illusion that my music is better than theirs.

When I post one of my compositions here, I want to hear other people's impressions of my piece, good or bad. I want to have a better sense of what I'm doing well, and what I'm doing poorly, so that I can improve my music-writing skills. While hearing someone say they like my piece is nice, hearing criticism is much more valuable so that I know what to work harder on for my next composition.


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## Vasks

regenmusic said:


> It's kind of a funny subject, and it would be interesting if anyone answered
> that they like another TC's music better than their own.


Ooh. Touchy topic. But let me react this way. I have heard some TC pieces that I liked very much but since so many are merely faux Baroque/faux Classicism/faux Romanticism/Video game music I rarely respond. It's OK if these composers want to do that but I really want to hear people express themselves in their own language. I don't want to hear Beethoven writing like Bach and I don't want to hear a 2016 composition sounding like Mozart. Sorry, but there it is.

Now, about admitting that someone else's music is better than my own. I do do that when I attend composer conferences. There are always a few pieces I hear say in a three event that are truly wonderful and of extremely high quality. I immediately tell the composers just that. But you must realize that most composers believe their work is very good too; after all, that's what keeps us going.



regenmusic said:


> I think it might give one pause for some humility, which is a good thing.
> "The humble improve." I think this is why some stop releasing what they compose, because they build up their early work in their head so much that they think their newer works will not match up.


I don't think I understand your point here...oh dear, don't jump on me for not understanding something like has happened before to me here...but I think you're wrong. Because as a composer I believe in the strength of whatever my current project is. I believe the newest often surpass the older works. Now in reality they might not, but that is the belief.



regenmusic said:


> I also wonder how much some want to hear comments on how to improve
> their work or what others really think. Again, not necessarily a bad thing, the problem with criticism is that unless you are a professional or a student you rarely get it. It's usually people telling you they like your work. And then
> how do you know if they are serious or if their opinion is valuable unless you try to sell it?


Some TC posters do want criticism and accept it graciously, but most do not and fly off into a tantrum if one "dares" to critique anything. I loved the one guy last year who said he was willing to be critiqued so long as he felt it was valid and then immediately screamed, figuratively speaking, at all who dared to criticize.


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## QuietGuy

I don't like my music the best. There's only a handful of my pieces that I truly like, and by that I mean pieces I actually want to listen to over and over, without feeling self-conscious. And even then, my best pieces sound like they were written 100 years ago.

It's all been said before. There's nothing new under the sun. It's why I quit composing in 1993. I'm content to listen to works written in the style I like best (Impressionism -- Ravel, Debussy, Faure), and leave the composing to someone else.


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## regenmusic

QuietGuy said:


> It's all been said before. There's nothing new under the sun. It's why I quit composing in 1993. I'm content to listen to works written in the style I like best (Impressionism -- Ravel, Debussy, Faure), and leave the composing to someone else.


That's what Solomon said 500 BC.


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## regenmusic

Vasks said:


> Ooh. Touchy topic. But let me react this way. I have heard some TC pieces that I liked very much but since so many are merely faux Baroque/faux Classicism/faux Romanticism/Video game music I rarely respond. It's OK if these composers want to do that but I really want to hear people express themselves in their own language. I don't want to hear Beethoven writing like Bach and I don't want to hear a 2016 composition sounding like Mozart. Sorry, but there it is.
> 
> Now, about admitting that someone else's music is better than my own. I do do that when I attend composer conferences. There are always a few pieces I hear say in a three event that are truly wonderful and of extremely high quality. I immediately tell the composers just that. But you must realize that most composers believe their work is very good too; after all, that's what keeps us going.
> 
> I don't think I understand your point here...oh dear, don't jump on me for not understanding something like has happened before to me here...but I think you're wrong. Because as a composer I believe in the strength of whatever my current project is. I believe the newest often surpass the older works. Now in reality they might not, but that is the belief.
> 
> Some TC posters do want criticism and accept it graciously, but most do not and fly off into a tantrum if one "dares" to critique anything. I loved the one guy last year who said he was willing to be critiqued so long as he felt it was valid and then immediately screamed, figuratively speaking, at all who dared to criticize.


That's funny, although one might say it's not uncommon. At least, I'm sure it does hurt a lot of people when people don't appreciate their work. I hope it doesn't happen that often. If someone puts a lot of effort into something and someone criticizes it unjustly, its great when people can step in and encourage the artist.

Not sure how this quoting is going to look. I didn't write my statement about early and later works above correctly, that's why it was hard to understand. I combined two things. What I meant is that I believe, because it's happened to me, that some people get praise for their music and then they might not believe in their latter work because they exaggerate what they've done before. In my case, it's ok that I'm delaying newer works because some of the realization of pieces were problematic because I wasn't playing as much as before and its hard to keep up technique sometimes. I also only released some of my early works with some of my latter (at that time) works. Now, when I start to release new much, it will be again works starting from the mid 1980s with works done up to a couple of years ago.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

My music, mmm..... a listen to my Blog will tell all

Think I prefer most peoples music to my own


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## Vasks

regenmusic said:


> That's funny, although one might say it's not uncommon. At least, I'm sure it does hurt a lot of people when people don't appreciate their work. I hope it doesn't happen that often. If someone puts a lot of effort into something and someone criticizes it unjustly, its great when people can step in and encourage the artist.


Personally I'm not out to hurt other composers' feelings and I'm pretty sure that other TC posters who make suggestions or ignore making comments are not either. But the world of composers with literally thousands of us in it have only two choices: develop thick skin and continue on because we believe in ourselves or whimper & whine about it.

As I've pointed out from time to time, the music world is enormously large and competitive. When I apply for a contest/call for scores I know up front that my odds are slim when 200-400 other applicants also entered it. Does it "hurt" when I'm not chosen? Well, yeah, but just for about a half a minute or less. Shake it off and move on.

My advice to writing that next piece: Challenge yourself to be as creative/clever as you can. Don't fall back on the formulas you used previously; find a new angle or two on how to express your ideas.


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## regenmusic

Some good thoughts there, Vasks.

I was in an active composer's collective from 2000 to 2005 when it disbanded. I knew
that in coming in generally to be happy in it and make friends, I had to only be positive 
about others. Generally, project a feeling of love and good will towards others, that was
towards them regardless of what I felt/thought about their music. I noticed towards the end 
of the collective that people were trying to confide in me negative judgments about others
in the collective and I was seeing this "true side" of others more and more. A "popularity"
contest evolved, and people who liked to party heavily started hanging out only with others
that liked to party heavily and so on. Generally, I think some of the same dynamics can even
be online. It's not so much about the music, it's about their pedigree, if they like the most modern
non-musical composers, or in non-classical cases perhaps more often, if they are pro-drug culture,
and so on.


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## Truckload

Lots of very interesting posts here. The one thing we can all say with absolute certainty is that no one is going to write a piece of music that all people everywhere are going to enjoy. Some people, even among the classical music crowd, might even dislike Mozart or Beethoven or Mahler, as is constantly proven on TC. We can be positive that any music any of us write is not going to please everyone. And art music is just a very small part of the world of music as a whole. 

It is sometimes a possibility to write music that might please some of the people, but never all of them. Movie and media composers probably get as close to universality as it is possible to get, that is why they get paid. If you are composing for money, I guess you study what your audience seems to want, and that is what you write, whether you personally like it or not.

But if you are not being paid for composing, then you must be writing for the joy and satisfaction of the creative process itself. So if you are going to invest some of your life composing, and it can be an extensive investment, and you aren't being paid, then you might as well try to write something to please yourself. Whether it is Baroque or High Classical or Romantic or Serialism or Big Band or Folk Songs or Urban Hip Hop, it is only worth the effort if you please yourself.

And if you are lucky, perhaps your music will also be appreciated by some other folks as well. 

People might post music here because they are still actively trying to learn how to write something worthwhile and they actually want constructive ideas for improvement. Some are seeking affirmation that they are doing something worthwhile. Others may just be sharing in the hopes that others will enjoy what they have written.

I think it would be very helpful if the poster would tell folks in their OP what general style would come closest to describing their music (i.e. Post Minimalism, early Romantic, High Classical, etc.) and what they expect from their listener. Do they just want to share, do they want help with mixing and sound quality, do they want constructive ideas to improve the piece? This would be a big help to potential listeners. If someone doesn't want to listen to a new composition in that particular style, they wont have to waste their time listening to it.


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## nikola

Of course that I like some of my music. I don't have any formal musical training, but I do enjoy in making music. 
The problem with sharing and expecting opinions is actually 'a problem' because people who will review your music and give you some tips on 'how to do it better' most probably don't like the music that you like, so they simply can't understand what you want to achieve. If I make some composition primarily because of the atmosphere, likability and meaningful melodic form, then comments like "you should make it more complex from 1:05' or 'you should do with left hands more of this or that" are simply comments from people that most of the time don't understand what I wanted to achieve. To many classicaly trained musicians complexity and some improvements on technical aspects are more important than likabilty, so they obviously can't understand how shallow I am and that I simply want to make little pieces that will some people like because they will like it. 

Critics are always good to hear. My playing abilities are more than extremely low, but I still manage somehow to glue things together. I think that comments are great to hear, but sometimes, musician must also find his own ways to improvements, because trying to fulfill some big technical demands can easily kill creativity at start. 
When I compose music, I enjoy in the process no matter how wrong or stupid it may be, but my enjoyment in making music is more important than trying to be perfect in something that is essentially to me not important that much in music. Also, trying to please everybody is lost battle from the start. 
There are some amateurish musicians that are composing on piano or reworking same style all over again. Even though I'm not fan of their music and find it pretty much shallow, I realized that what they are making gets more positive and wider response than music that I make. 
When you compose something that is trendy and widely acceptable, no matter how bad it is, many people will most probably like it. 

It's completely different if you share your music with classicaly trained musicians or with amateurish musicians or with new age musicians or with some casual listener that never tried to play anything. 
But in the end I realized that some classically trained musicians considered my pieces to be really good... some other trained musicians consider my music simple and crap... some causal listeners like my music and some of them don't. Some of them like 'this' composition and some of them like 'that' composition. 

There's actually no rule. We have different brains, we hear music in different ways. Some of us are more tone deaf and some of us are less tone deaf, so we can't hear in same way all music. Different people with different emotional setup will react differently to the same music. Some will hear only mathematical aspects of music and could not enjoy in it the same way like I do enjoy it, because I want primarily to EXPERIENCE the music and I don't care much for complexity even though I do it prefer over simplicity. Some complexity is simply bad to me and some complexity is brilliant. Sometimes I would rather hear Brahms 'Lullaby' than some long and heavy symphony that will annoy me or put me to sleep. But next time, my preferences could be different.


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## Truckload

nikola said:


> Of course that I like some of my music. I don't have any formal musical training, but I do enjoy in making music.
> The problem with sharing and expecting opinions is actually 'a problem' because people who will review your music and give you some tips on 'how to do it better' most probably don't like the music that you like, so they simply can't understand what you want to achieve. If I make some composition primarily because of the atmosphere, likability and meaningful melodic form, then comments like "you should make it more complex from 1:05' or 'you should do with left hands more of this or that" are simply comments from people that most of the time don't understand what I wanted to achieve. To many classicaly trained musicians complexity and some improvements on technical aspects are more important than likabilty, so they obviously can't understand how shallow I am and that I simply want to make little pieces that will some people like because they will like it.
> 
> Critics are always good to hear. My playing abilities are more than extremely low, but I still manage somehow to glue things together. I think that comments are great to hear, but sometimes, musician must also find his own ways to improvements, because trying to fulfill some big technical demands can easily kill creativity at start.
> When I compose music, I enjoy in the process no matter how wrong or stupid it may be, but my enjoyment in making music is more important than trying to be perfect in something that is essentially to me not important that much in music. Also, trying to please everybody is lost battle from the start.
> There are some amateurish musicians that are composing on piano or reworking same style all over again. Even though I'm not fan of their music and find it pretty much shallow, I realized that what they are making gets more positive and wider response than music that I make.
> When you compose something that is trendy and widely acceptable, no matter how bad it is, many people will most probably like it.
> 
> It's completely different if you share your music with classicaly trained musicians or with amateurish musicians or with new age musicians or with some casual listener that never tried to play anything.
> But in the end I realized that some classically trained musicians considered my pieces to be really good... some other trained musicians consider my music simple and crap... some causal listeners like my music and some of them don't. Some of them like 'this' composition and some of them like 'that' composition.
> 
> There's actually no rule. We have different brains, we hear music in different ways. Some of us are more tone deaf and some of us are less tone deaf, so we can't hear in same way all music. Different people with different emotional setup will react differently to the same music. Some will hear only mathematical aspects of music and could not enjoy in it the same way like I do enjoy it, because I want primarily to EXPERIENCE the music and I don't care much for complexity even though I do it prefer over simplicity. Some complexity is simply bad to me and some complexity is brilliant. Sometimes I would rather hear Brahms 'Lullaby' than some long and heavy symphony that will annoy me or put me to sleep. But next time, my preferences could be different.


I sense from your post that you are feeling inner conflict. It isn't your exact words, I am reading "between the lines". It is a very rare person who does not need positive affirmation in their life. People who have the desire to create something in the arts, like music, are most likely more sensitive to praise or rebuke than the average person. There is nothing wrong with wanting to share what you have created and wanting others to appreciate your work. That is completely normal and understandable. The myth of the detached artist, slaving away in isolation to create art with no concern for the opinions of others is prevalent, but not really true. I just don't think that happens very often.

So I suggest you tell people up front enough about your musical style to warn off those not interested. Then tell people what you want. You could say, "No suggestions for improvements are wanted, I just hope some people like what I have written." Then if someone is boorish enough to criticize or make suggestions, it is their problem, not yours.


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## nikola

Truckload said:


> I sense from your post that you are feeling inner conflict. It isn't your exact words, I am reading "between the lines". It is a very rare person who does not need positive affirmation in their life. People who have the desire to create something in the arts, like music, are most likely more sensitive to praise or rebuke than the average person. There is nothing wrong with wanting to share what you have created and wanting others to appreciate your work. That is completely normal and understandable. The myth of the detached artist, slaving away in isolation to create art with no concern for the opinions of others is prevalent, but not really true. I just don't think that happens very often.
> 
> So I suggest you tell people up front enough about your musical style to warn off those not interested. Then tell people what you want. You could say, "No suggestions for improvements are wanted, I just hope some people like what I have written." Then if someone is boorish enough to criticize or make suggestions, it is their problem, not yours.


I didn't say that I don't want people to like my music. I said that sometimes critics both good or bad doesn't need to be much helpful to the musician if the person who is listening to that music isn't able to 'hear it' or 'understand' wht composer wanted to achieve.

There is one guy that has very similar taste to mine and we realized that accidentally. He likes songs that I like and I like pretty much of the music that he likes. He also likes my music because he can hear what I'm doing or what I want to achieve and his comments and critics I value more because I understand his comments and he understands what I have to hear. 
But majority of other people who live in their world that is different than mine or simply don't experience music the same way as I do, for no matter what reason, can't give me an opinion that would make sense to me and that is the problem. It can make feel frustrated even very talented and promising composer when it seems there's nobody except him there who understand his music.

For example, most of the jazz, especially modal and free jazz (Miles Davis for example and everything similar) I can't stand... to me it's dry, boring and meaningless noodling and I don't care how much great musician he is because I don't understand what he's doing and I don't want to understand, but there are many people who can enjoy in such music. I can't and I don't tend to make such music, so it's obviously that people who understand Miles Davis won't understand the way I understand the music I want to make.. the music that I like, etc.


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## regenmusic

nikola said:


> I didn't say that I don't want people to like my music. I said that sometimes critics both good or bad doesn't need to be much helpful to the musician if the person who is listening to that music isn't able to 'hear it' or 'understand' wht composer wanted to achieve.
> 
> There is one guy that has very similar taste to mine and we realized that accidentally. He likes songs that I like and I like pretty much of the music that he likes. He also likes my music because he can hear what I'm doing or what I want to achieve and his comments and critics I value more because I understand his comments and he understands what I have to hear.
> But majority of other people who live in their world that is different than mine or simply don't experience music the same way as I do, for no matter what reason, can't give me an opinion that would make sense to me and that is the problem. It can make feel frustrated even very talented and promising composer when it seems there's nobody except him there who understand his music.
> 
> For example, most of the jazz, especially modal and free jazz (Miles Davis for example and everything similar) I can't stand... to me it's dry, boring and meaningless noodling and I don't care how much great musician he is because I don't understand what he's doing and I don't want to understand, but there are many people who can enjoy in such music. I can't and I don't tend to make such music, so it's obviously that people who understand Miles Davis won't understand the way I understand the music I want to make.. the music that I like, etc.


It's always been that there were some people who did not like some of the music of their present time. I think for most people when they say they do not like most Jazz, they are not saying that they do not like African American or African music, it has nothing to do with that. But some non-black people might think it does so they "brainwash" themselves into liking Jazz (or Blues) just so they can feel like they are not prejudiced. Some of the music I love the best is certain Black Gospel from 1960s and 1970s, that is a type of funky progressive rock or well-written top 40's Pop music from America/Western Europe. I've liked this music for about 25 years now, so it has not been for me that not liking Jazz or Blues was ever a sensitive politically correct issue, like it is with probably a lot of people. I feel sorry for people who think like that and I think they are one reason that "Gangster Rap" became epidemically popular even in Whites and Asians. Often people are so racist by conditioning that they don't know how to be non-racist -- they'll let a self-harm inflicting person shoot themselves in the foot instead of violating their rights at that dangerous moment in time.


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## nikola

I'm from Croatia, so luckily here we don't judge music based on race. I guess it could be different in the US. There is some jazz that I do like like swing, dixie, new orleans etc. Older jazz mostly that has some musical form. I don't like formless and noodling music. But in my country jazz is also like some kind of music for "intellectually superior people". The most jazz listeners I met are pretty much obnoxious and vain people. I don't know why is that.


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## arpeggio

I am not sure if I understand the OP.

regenmusic, are you asking that if we had experiences at composing how do we react to other TC members compositions when compared to out own efforts?


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## regenmusic

arpeggio said:


> I am not sure if I understand the OP.
> 
> regenmusic, are you asking that if we had experiences at composing how do we react to other TC members compositions when compared to out own efforts?


Yes, it's really that simple. I think it's even noble to follow one's own muse like that,
although I realize this is sometimes bred out of people going to music college, even though
I would think that such schooling would be immensely rewarding.


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## arpeggio

OK. In other threads I have described my experiences at trying to be a composer when I was in college. My attempts were unmitigated disasters. While cleaning out the basement I found a woodwind quintet I composed. It was and still is garbage. While reviewing it I could not help but feel it was a very bad copy of Shostakovich. Even in a drunken stupor he could have composed something better than my lame attempt.

Sometimes I discover music that has been submitted here that is pretty good and far superior to anything I composed. Alas, I have found that most of the entries here to be as weak and as derivative as my stuff. In those situations I just do not say anything.

To be frank to be a successful composer a person has to find his own voice. He can be influenced by others. Any composer who tries to sound like Mozart or Beethoven or Boulez or whatever is destined to be a failure. I always tried to sound like somebody else and I could never find my own voice.

Since I was a flop as a composer the above is probably bogus.


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## Stirling

I compose, if anyone wants to listen - they can judge. My own favorites, are something else entirely.


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