# Haydn Symphony Series Part 9: 82-87 - "Paris"



## Ramako

Well, we are now on to the Paris symphonies ! Things should get more exciting at this stage. Also there might be more to say about different performers of these symphonies, although I don't have many myself. Here is the usual table and the links at the bottom.


Hoboken NumberingOrder of compositionYear of composition828917868386178584871786858517858688178687841785

http://www.haydn107.com/index.php?id=21&lng=2

Previous Haydn symphony threads: 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50, 51-60, 61-70, 71-81


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## Ramako

Well, I have to say when I was going through the cycle the first time, just listening to them I got a real shock when the first movement 82 came on. At the time I didn't know what number it was, but it struck me immediately as being of higher calibre than the ones before it. So I think that there is some credence to the idea that these Paris symphonies are good, although for a long time they didn't particularly catch my interest.

My favourite is in fact 82. The first movement is very good, with a lot of interest, continually doing something interesting. The second movement is another brilliant example of one of Haydn's excellent tunes. I always think that most of Haydn slow movement's fall into one of two types (later on in his life) of, roughly speaking, 'silly' or 'profound'. This one manages to negotiate wonderfully between the two, although it leans more towards the former. And the last is the movement where the symphony gets its name from, with the very rustic drones. I have Dorati for this one as well as Fischer, and Dorati brings out the 'vulgar' aspect of this much more, gaining much in comic effect, even though he loses a little in continuity.

I also voted for 83. Landon criticises this symphony, though he concedes it is very good, for 'trying to escape from the minor', a trait he recognises in all Haydn's post-Sturm und Drang symphonies (of which this is definitely my favourite). However, for me, that misses the point of this symphony, which seems to me to be about _aftermath_. There is the storm of the opening material of the first movement, and the rest of the symphony deals with the recovery from this storm. Particularly the long and stunningly beautiful Andante movement. By the last movement the symphony has 'recovered' however, and all is well.


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## Hausmusik

Anyone know the story behind 83 being known as "The Hen"?

Looked it up: "The nickname comes from the clucking second subject in the first movement, which reminded listeners of the jerky back-and forth head motion of a walking hen." (Wiki)


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## joen_cph

Tough one, my favourite group of Haydn symphonies, with a lot of varied content also in their atmosphere, such as the expansive 82 and the stormy 83 in particular. Voted for them.


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## Ukko

I voted for 87. For some reason I find the places where a solo instrument is highlighted to be very effective.


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## Alydon

Love all the symphonies in this set but for me 86 always stands out. This symphony always seems to have a sense of occassion and the movements perfectly compliment each other with the 1st being the best in the set. I've gone through many recordings trying to find the best for me and have found, although not for everyone, Thomas Fey and the Heidelberger Sinfoniker hit the right balance of wit, excitement and exuberance, although like many first heard Haydn in the classic Dorati set.


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## Arsakes

"The Bear" and "La Reine" are the ost pleasant in this list. "The Hen" somehow lost its appeal to me


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## clavichorder

I like number 85 best of this set. 84 strikes me as a well developed one, and I've spent more time listening to it.

86 and 87 would need a re listen. 

83 is kind of sturm und drang throwback in the 1st mvt. isn't it? 82 gets good reviews here, so that'll need a relisten.


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## Hausmusik

clavichorder said:


> 83 is kind of sturm und drang throwback in the 1st mvt. isn't it?


Yes, I agree with you.


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## Feathers

My favorites out of this bunch happen to be the three with the nicknames - 82, 83, and 85. 
83 and 85 were obvious choices for me, but I decided to add 82. I remember when I first heard them I was quite surprised at how much I liked the mvt 1 of 82, considering the fact that the first theme was just a C major arpeggio, but as usual, Haydn developed his themes in such structured and interesting ways that I had to love it.


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## JCarmel

I'm afraid that I cheated, Ramako and voted for 4! But you see, I like different movements from all of those four in almost equal measure...so it's not possible to choose just one work.....
But if 'push came to shove'.... I'd go for No.85 'La Reine'....reputed to be the favourite of Marie Antionette?
Maybe she didn't just say 'Let the people eat cake...!' but 'Let the people eat cake, whilst listening to Haydn's 85th symphony!' which seems to me to be a most civilised suggestion for which she ought to be applauded!


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## Roi N

How come nobody spoke about the minuet of "The Bear"? Best minuet haydn wrote in his life by far, and that's saying a lot, because he's the master of minuets.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Roi N said:


> How come nobody spoke about the minuet of "The Bear"? Best minuet haydn wrote in his life by far, and that's saying a lot, because he's the master of minuets.


I like that one as well - but best minuet ever? Hmm.... there are many good ones, my favourite one is probably the Witches' Minuet from the Fifths quartet, it provides excellent contrast.


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## Rhombic

Certainly 82 in C Major, L'Ours. I don't know why it has fascinated me so much but it has had. Absolutely awesome.


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## Brahmsian Colors

I get the greatest satisfaction from Nos. 84, 85 and 87. For me, Neville Marriner's interpretations are wonderfully robust, spirited and musical.


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## Funny

I probably enjoy 82 and 83 a little more, but I did also pick 85. My favorite moment is in the 1st movement, when he returns to the theme (that has a stair-step accompaniment) by means of a descending stepwise pattern, so that the transition scale falling into the theme continues to fall as part of the theme. I'm sure I've heard this done more than once in 20th-century pop music, but can't think of any instances right now.


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## hpowders

The Paris Symphonies are all fine works, but the first two in the series are my favorites.

I'm always a sucker for a big, grand, extroverted Haydn C Majorish first movement such as that of No. 82 and 97.

I love the humor of No. 83 in G minor. That clucking hen is a riot!


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> I get the greatest satisfaction from Nos. 84, 85 and 87. For me, Neville Marriner's interpretations are wonderfully robust, spirited and musical.


No Dorati fan then?


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## Brahmsian Colors

Pugg said:


> No Dorati fan then?


I used to own the entire Dorati/Haydn installment on London Stereo Treasury lps, but wound up selling it because 1) I didn't care much for most of the composer's Symphonies and 2) I found those I liked in more satisying performances by other conductors. Marriner, Szell and Davis all strike me as more refined, while maintaining the often wonderful sense of Haydnesque drive. Although mostly recorded in mono sound, Hermann Scherchen can phrase Haydn with a unique warmth and sensitivity of expression as well as a degree of excitement I've not found with any other conductor....Currently, there are only a dozen of Haydn's Symphonies I am especially fond of: 44,84,85,87,92,93,95 through 99 and 102.


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## Bettina

No. 83 ("The Hen") is my favorite in this series. I love the contrasting moods in the first movement. The first theme is so dramatic and intense, and then the second theme comes in with its cute little pecking sounds!  It feels like Haydn is saying "enough of this angst--let's have some fun!"


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> No. 83 ("The Hen") is my favorite in this series. I love the contrasting moods in the first movement. The first theme is so dramatic and intense, and then the second theme comes in with its cute little pecking sounds!  It feels like Haydn is saying "enough of this angst--let's have some fun!"


And nobody did that pecking better than the late great principal oboist of the NY Philharmonic, Harold Gomberg, under Leonard Bernstein's direction in their compete Haydn Paris Symphony recording.


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> I used to own the entire Dorati/Haydn installment on London Stereo Treasury lps, but wound up selling it because 1) I didn't care much for most of the composer's Symphonies and 2) I found those I liked in more satisfying performances by other conductors. Marriner, Szell and Davis all strike me as more refined, while maintaining the often wonderful sense of Haydnesque drive. Although mostly recorded in mono sound, Hermann Scherchen can phrase Haydn with a unique warmth and sensitivity of expression as well as a degree of excitement I've not found with any other conductor....Currently, there are only a dozen of Haydn's Symphonies I am especially fond of: 44,84,85,87,92,93,95 through 99 and 102.


You picked the right ones on this!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Pugg said:


> You picked the right ones on this!


I tend to steer clear from some Haydn Symphonies which, as far as I'm concerned, sound a bit overblown with horns.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Hey! I could pick them all


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