# Single Round Baritone Coloratura:Sorge infausta una procella From Orlando: Sly, D'Arcangelo, Hvorostovsky



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Les Violons du Roy Bernard Labadie: Conductor Philippe Sly: Bass-Baritone




Handel: Orlando / Act 3 - Sorge infausta una procella · Ildebrando D'Arcangelo · Modo Antiquo · Federico Maria Sardelli




Handel: Orlando, HWV 31 / Act III - Sorge infausta una procella · Dmitri Hvorostovsky · Academy of St Martin in the Fields · Sir Neville Marriner


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sounds like D'Archangelo sings it a tone lower as he is a bass. I would love to hear all of them sing it but he has the cleanest coloratura. It must be much more difficult for men to sing like this than women.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

The timing of this is great! Modern singers artificially darkening their sound (which also makes the coloratura more difficult). And I know exactly what they're doing because I've been guilty of it. The Warren effect lol


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> The timing of this is great! 3 modern singers artificially darkening their sound (which also makes the coloratura more difficult). The Warren effect lol


I normally don't think of a baritone as having a bright sound but what do I know. Do you want them to sound like a tenor but just a little lower?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I normally don't think of a baritone as having a bright sound but what do I know. Do you want them to sound like a tenor but just a little lower?


No, but they should sound free and open and let whatever darkness they produce come naturally. They sound closed and constricted which limits both their impact in the house and their vocal agility.

Are you using the Ramey version? That's a naturally produced dark voice, much more at home in the coloratura imo.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> No, but they should sound free and open and let whatever darkness they produce come naturally. They sound closed and constricted which limits both their impact in the house and their vocal agility.
> 
> Are you using the Ramey version? That's a naturally produced dark voice, much more at home in the coloratura imo.


I will if there is enough interest. I chose the Russian as he has some big fans here.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Sly takes this at a terrifying clip. It's a wonder that he manages to make most of the coloratura clear. Hvorostovsky is slowest of the three, but is somehow the least clear; I think it's partly in the structure of his vibrato, and partly in his being more recessed in relation to the orchestra. In any case he seems to be roaring unnecessarily. Between the others I find it hard to choose, but I do like Sly's variety of articulation. Based on this and the "Non piu andrai" we heard a while back, he impresses as a thoughtful and creative artist, an uncommon thing that's high on my list of musical values.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The only masculine low voice that I felt was comfortable with coloratura was Samuel Ramey, the _ne plus ultra _Assur in *Semiramide*.

I am surprised, though, at the men in this contest - they do better than I expected, especially a voice like d’Archangelo’s (what a great name), whose aspirates I expected, but who did well with some of the divisions. 
All three have voices with more flexibility than anticipated, but all cheat, using aspirates to divide the notes, or they are not cleanly separated if they don’t.
No vote: one minute I want Dima, another I want Sly, or d’Archangelo.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> No, but they should sound free and open and let whatever darkness they produce come naturally. They sound closed and constricted which limits both their impact in the house and their vocal agility.
> 
> Are you using the Ramey version? That's a naturally produced dark voice, much more at home in the coloratura imo.


I am as dense as a post. I am not questioning your judgement on this. This is your expertise after all. I played and compared. I just can't hear this darkening that is so hateful. I also don't hear a lot of other things people think are important here. Aspirates and portamentos fly by my antenae. I'm not going to beat myself up about it as the important thing is if we enjoy opera and it is one of my greatest pleasures in life, even if my ear is not as sophisticated as some of my peers  May your aspirations come gloriously true in the new year, friend!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> The only masculine low voice that I felt was comfortable with coloratura was Samuel Ramey, the _ne plus ultra _Assur in *Semiramide*.
> 
> I am surprised, though, at the men in this contest - they do better than I expected, especially a voice like d’Archangelo’s (what a great name), whose aspirates I expected, but who did well with some of the divisions.
> All three have voices with more flexibility than anticipated, but all cheat, using aspirates to divide the notes, or they are not cleanly separated if they don’t.
> No vote: one minute I want Dima, another I want Sly, or d’Archangelo.


I need to relisten to Ramey on Semiramide next exercise period. I am just amazed that baritones can sing coloratura so well. In many operas with coloratura it is only the women that ever sing it. This was new to me which was why I thought it would make a great contest.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am as dense as a post. I am not questioning your judgement on this. This is your expertise after all. I played and compared. I just can't hear this darkening that is so hateful. I also don't hear a lot of other things people think are important here. Aspirates and portamentos fly by my antenae. I'm not going to beat myself up about it as the important thing is if we enjoy opera and it is one of my greatest pleasures in life, even if my ear is not as sophisticated as some of my peers  May your aspirations come gloriously true in the new year, friend!


I'm with you, John, at least partly. I can hear faults in singing, but I keep in mind that it's the taste that ultimately matters, and not what you do in the kitchen. A bit of darkening or aspirating may or may not be bothersome to me, depending on the musical result, and so I tend to leave the haggling and hair-splitting over technique to others here. We can certainly learn from them to listen more discerningly, but we'll enjoy what we enjoy without apology.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Les Violons du Roy Bernard Labadie: Conductor Philippe Sly: Bass-Baritone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was unsure between D'Archangelo and Hcorostovsky, but Hvorostovsky was probable better this time. I should listen again, but I am not in a mood, do I might change my vote later.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I'm with you, John, at least partly. I can hear faults in singing, but I keep in mind that it's the taste that ultimately matters, and not what you do in the kitchen. A bit of darkening or aspirating may or may not be bothersome to me, depending on the musical result, and so I tend to leave the haggling and hair-splitting over technique to others here. We can certainly learn from them to listen more discerningly, but we'll enjoy what we enjoy without apology.


I look up to you so you saying this makes me feel happy!!!! Happy New Year, Friend!!!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am as dense as a post. I am not questioning your judgement on this. This is your expertise after all. I played and compared. I just can't hear this darkening that is so hateful. I also don't hear a lot of other things people think are important here. Aspirates and portamentos fly by my antenae. I'm not going to beat myself up about it as the important thing is if we enjoy opera and it is one of my greatest pleasures in life, even if my ear is not as sophisticated as some of my peers  May your aspirations come gloriously true in the new year, friend!


You are far from dense! You're much more well-versed than I am. I'm attuned to baritones because I am one, but outside of that I'm largely ignorant. I didn't know a thing about opera until I was already in my 30s and rather than going to any program or conservatory I got my opera education right here on TC!!! I'm still getting it 

Do you think I could give a speech on this stuff like you do? Hell nah!!! You're the expert between the two of us. I may know some singing, but you know opera.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> The only masculine low voice that I felt was comfortable with coloratura was Samuel Ramey, the _ne plus ultra _Assur in *Semiramide*.
> 
> I am surprised, though, at the men in this contest - they do better than I expected, especially a voice like d’Archangelo’s (what a great name), whose aspirates I expected, but who did well with some of the divisions.
> All three have voices with more flexibility than anticipated, but all cheat, using aspirates to divide the notes, or they are not cleanly separated if they don’t.
> No vote: one minute I want Dima, another I want Sly, or d’Archangelo.


I feel better now as Ramey is not Assur on my Semiramide. Besides, that part was on the first record and Joan and Jackie don't sing on that side so I never listened to it. I know... back of the room😁


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've seen Orlando once and enjoyed it in performance, but I can't really say I know it. 

I like the darkness in Sly's tone and the coloratura is well done. There's something rough about his voice that bothers me, but this is passingly enjoyable.

The next one is on an altogether different level. The conducting is more up beat and fits better with the general idea of how Handel should be performed today (whether that's right or wrong). His diction and the purity of his vowels reveal the woofiness in Sly's voice that I couldn't quite find the word for. In comparison Sly sounded only half awake. d'Arcangelo gives us all the attention and bite the piece needs.

I like Hvorostovsky and he does better in this than I would have thought. There's too much of a nod to the style of Verdi though. 

d'Arcangelo, but that's in large part due to the HIP orchestra and conducting.

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Keeping it "simple, stupid", and sans lamenting over aspirates, portamentos and such elitest phrases that help make one feel more important, I immediately related to the sound of D'archangelo's voice and found his attack on those difficult passages to have been done with the most simplicity. (And MAN is he gorgeous, or what!)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Keeping it "simple, stupid", and sans lamenting over aspirates, portamentos and such elitest phrases that help make one feel more important, I immediately related to the sound of D'archangelo's voice and found his attack on those difficult passages to have been done with the most simplicity. (And MAN is he gorgeous, or what!)


I never saw him before but he would look great in a video.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I voted for the one I heard live, that is D'Arcangelo. I'm glad that he's praised by connoisseurs. I must alert those who would look for his videos, some of them are with Netrebko, Le nozze in her better times, but another one is Anna Bolena. I saw him as Don Giovanni and the role inarguably fits him. 
I don't know Orlando, but I'll make amends. It's a shame, with all my love for Handel.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Keeping it "simple, stupid", and sans lamenting over aspirates, portamentos and such elitest phrases that help make one feel more important, I immediately related to the sound of D'archangelo's voice and found his attack on those difficult passages to have been done with the most simplicity. (And MAN is he gorgeous, or what!)


Agreed, he is quite a manly figure, with wide shoulders, and a voice to match.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

D'Arcangelo - best voice with best orchestra.

Dmitri sounded as if he had mashed potatoes in his mouth.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Agreed, he is quite a manly figure, with wide shoulders, and a voice to match.


Had any of you heard of him before? He was totally new to me but I liked both his sound and his looks. His voice may be darkened but if he were singing for me I wouldn't give a ....... 😜


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

8


Seattleoperafan said:


> Had any of you heard of him before? He was totally new to me but I liked both his sound and his looks. His voice may be darkened but if he were singing for me I wouldn't give a ....... 😜


Yes, he’s been for quite a while (30 years?) singing mostly in Europe, but I don’t follow the lower male voices so I don’t know his repertoire. I did become aware of him due to the marketing of his recordings which featured his handsome face.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

@Seattleoperafan see if you pick up on the artificial darkening from this singer...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> @Seattleoperafan see if you pick up on the artificial darkening from this singer...


I can hear it but ...... I sort of like it I've listened to too much Warren Does darkening the voice like that effect it when you go to F5 and beyond.???


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I can hear it but ...... I sort of like it I've listened to too much Warren Does darkening the voice like that effect it when you go to F5 and beyond.???


Haha! A lot of people like it tbh, he's enjoying a nice career...that's a good question because essentially what he's doing is singing everything in the high F and beyond position (covered). When you cover too low an artificially dark sound is what you get.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> @Seattleoperafan see if you pick up on the artificial darkening from this singer...


Maybe he's auditioning for the Commendatore in _Don Giovanni_. I reckon ghostly statues can take a bit of darkening.

It's an impressive instrument, but it's definitely not Tonio. Back to Gorin and Sarobe.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

In this instance, I simply went for the voice that appealed to me most and that was was D'Arcangelo. I thought all three did a pretty good job, though they all have to use aspirates to get round the notes.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

This is Hvorostovsky's video for those who can't open his link. It's with Italian and Spanish subtitles.


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