# Do you have a mental problem? (ex. Depression)



## Igneous01

One thing I have noticed alot over my reading of posts on this forum - there are alot of accounts of people admitting depression, loneliness, and isolation (im one of those too) or taking medication for anxiety or other issues.

And I see it being commonplace at my college as well, it kind of seems like everyone is suffering from something mentally (I keep hearing about how many people are diagnosed with depression now, that its like the norm)

so I made this poll to see just how many of us are on this boat, in relation to the active members on the forums.

Do you think we make up the majority of the active community on this forum?


----------



## Crudblud

The problem with asking this question is that those of us who are actually diagnosed with such illnesses are probably outnumbered by those who self-diagnose with no frame of reference or even those who simply say "oh, I'm depressed" when they're simply having a bad day. Depression is also the go-to fad mental illness for teenagers who want to appear deep and sensitive, it suggests that you are filled with a deep sadness but are not "crazy," which means if you dress a certain way and hang out in certain places you can get laid much easier.

Yes, I have been diagnosed with chronic depression.


----------



## science

I suspect that the conditions of modern life make us this way. Not that pre-modern life was better, but I don't think we're psychologically designed to live on a tight schedule, surrounded by strangers and various series of acquaintances, working hard at stressful jobs to stay stuck in various amorphous status hierarchies. And so on. 

The wonder may be that we have any sanity left.


----------



## Igneous01

Crudblud said:


> The problem with asking this question is that those of us who are actually diagnosed with such illnesses are probably outnumbered by those who self-diagnose with no frame of reference or even those who simply say "oh, I'm depressed" when they're having an occasional bad day.
> 
> Anyway; yes, I have been diagnosed with chronic depression.


thats true, but I would think that people can tell the difference if there having a bad day, and if there actually depressed, since the feeling lingers much more and people understand themselves better than anyone else can.

ps. I was screened for severe depression, but I have not gone to my doctor about it.


----------



## aleazk

I'm medicated by a psychiatrist with antidepressants and anxiolytics


----------



## Polednice

I had major depression for a number of years and had much medication and counselling, but it seems that it was largely brought on by my physical disorder which played havoc with my hormones, and, since that has been partly sorted, I'm nowhere near as depressed any more.

I do still have various social anxiety problems, however I do not consider this an illness. I consider it a way of being that is outside the norm, and, because it is outside the norm, it is difficult because other people aren't considerate enough to behave appropriately and not judge those who don't think in the same way. Well **** 'em!


----------



## Crudblud

Igneous01 said:


> thats true, but I would think that people can tell the difference if there having a bad day, and if there actually depressed, since the feeling lingers much more and people understand themselves better than anyone else can.


As I mentioned in the edit of my post, a lot of people fake it simply because it's a way to make yourself appear "special" without the negative connotations of many other mental illnesses. It's almost a fashion accessory for some people.


----------



## science

Crudblud said:


> As I mentioned in the edit of my post, a lot of people fake it simply because it's a way to make yourself appear "special" without the negative connotations of many other mental illnesses. It's almost a fashion accessory for some people.


Yes, sometimes it seems "deep" to be depressed.

It's the new "bored."


----------



## aleazk

Crudblud said:


> As I mentioned in the edit of my post, a lot of people fake it simply because it's a way to make yourself appear "special" without the negative connotations of many other mental illnesses. It's almost a fashion accessory for some people.


you are right. but it's easy to tell the difference. I started to worry when I have felt that my depressive thoughts started to interfere with my normal life. I suddently lost interest in my career (physics is/was my passion), that was odd for me, so I attended a psychiatrist and I'm medicated now.


----------



## Crudblud

aleazk said:


> you are right. but it's easy to tell the difference.


For people who have suffered from or looked after someone with a mental illness, sure, but that's not who the fashion depressives are selling to; they're after people who think depression is "romantic" or "deep" or whatever, and those are the people who are going to believe them.


----------



## itywltmt

Yes! I have TWO teenage daughters. Need I say more?


----------



## Polednice

There's a big problem with depression as a fashion accessory (aside from the obvious vapidity, of course), and it's that it has created a new kind of stigma. Before, depression was very much stigmatised because accepting that you had a "mental illness" was perceived to mean you were insane, imbalanced, and somehow psychotic. Thankfully, those associations are largely gone. However, because of this new idea that depression is something everyone gets when you break a nail, people criticise the depressed, saying that it's just a frame of mind problem, and can be resolved in 10 minutes by looking at the world differently. This criticism is right when directed at shallow people who don't know what clinical depression feels like, but it's applied too broadly, encompassing those with a serious health problem who cannot be helped with a few kind (and patronising) words.


----------



## aleazk

Crudblud said:


> For people who have suffered from or looked after someone with a mental illness, sure, but that's not who the fashion depressives are selling to; they're after people who think depression is "romantic" or "deep" or whatever, and those are the people who are going to believe them.


yes, we agree. snobbism is at the corner of the street.


----------



## Ukko

Well, I am not the Hilltroll simply on a whim. If your depression allows you to get out of bed and go to work, you are handling it. If any of you young folks are a member of an organized religion, talk to the man. Alternatively, (this will be no surprise to some of you) I heartily recommend hard physical labor.

*Back in the day*, we heard damn few complaints about being depressed; maybe we all were, so there was no point in bitching about it.


----------



## aleazk

but it's very interesting that a lot of people here have the same profile, as Igneous01 has pointed out. It's obvious that we, here, are lonely people.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I'm perfectly "normal".

Seriously, I am in full agreement with Crudblud:

but it's easy to tell the difference.

For people who have suffered from or looked after someone with a mental illness, sure, but that's not who the fashion depressives are selling to; they're after people who think depression is "romantic" or "deep" or whatever, and those are the people who are going to believe them.

As someone with a close family member who suffers from bi-polar/schizo-affective I have little use for the naive Romantics who imagine that they are clinically depressed because they feel a little down after their boyfriend dumped them or simply because they are introverted and lack social skills. And nothing fires me up more than the morons who try to claim mental illness because they associate it with being artistic or creative. Such thinking is little more than the usual juvenile need to romanticize everything they feel and experience... as if all they see or feel or touch or live through must somehow be exceptional... extraordinary... and unprecedented.


----------



## Dodecaplex

Obsessive compulsive disorder can be a pain in the head. But I soldier on.


----------



## Ukko

If you are non-clinically depressed because you are lonely, does it mean that you don't get along well with yourself? I ask because I do wonder about that. Does the more-than-average extrovert suffer from loneliness more than introverts do? I don't mean more often, because extroverts may tend to successfully avoid being alone. I'm referring to degree of suffering - if there is any way to determine that.


----------



## aleazk

Hilltroll72 said:


> If you are non-clinically depressed because you are lonely, does it mean that you don't get along well with yourself? I ask because I do wonder about that. Does the more-than-average extrovert suffer from loneliness more than introverts do? I don't mean more often, because extroverts may tend to successfully avoid being alone. I'm referring to degree of suffering - if there is any way to determine that.


well, all I can tell you is that I'm alone and that I suffer because of that. I used to like being alone, now I'm sick of it.


----------



## emiellucifuge

No I dont. But I am deep.


----------



## Crudblud

I'm in a weird position where I enjoy being alone but I enjoy company as well, I guess I just need someone who likes to hang out but is also cool with being apart for extended periods of time when I want to work or just do stuff on my own. Every woman I've been involved with has been far too needy in that respect, I've never been romantically involved with another man, so I don't know how that would pan out. I'm not particularly physically alluring, so I doubt I'll ever get to find out.


----------



## kv466

Self diagnosed and self medicated.


----------



## Polednice

kv466 said:


> Self diagnosed and self medicated.


I wish I could take a pill of kv466.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

The apparently self-diagnosed and fashionable-depressed are often folks (who I have come across in real life) as simply lazy minded - brought up on a culture of dependence/expecting all food on the platter. "I landed myself in a crap job with work I don't like, I am depressed and have no motivation". There also appears some correlation with the type of sedantary lifestyles that we are used to and self-diagnosed and fashionable types. Just my own observation.

And it makes me laugh when I hear folks who often casually say "I am so stressed". I'm not making a mockery of chronic depression; there is of course genuine chronic depression as an illness. But what I am suggesting is I get annoyed by all the self-pity and pathetic rigmarole that come with the "fakes".

I'm not depressed. I'm just a cranky beastard.


----------



## TrazomGangflow

I've been diagnosed with a form of anxiety. I have a tendency to obsess over things, especially in times of stress. Personally I find that keeping busy with long term goals is the best medicine. For example, getting 1,000 posts on TC.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

I sympathize with people who go through depression, because I had a similar period 2 years ago, which lasted almost 3 months. It was a very dark period for me, and I was glad to be free of, and have continued to this day. It may have been chemical, it may have been something more, but it all is important to take account of. I don't believe it's always a person's fault when they get truly depressed, they may have very good reason for it. However, it's something that's very harmful, and really should be treated in whatever way is helpful for the person, if it takes medicine, or spiritual counseling.


----------



## Sid James

Guys, if it's "easy to tell the difference," why do psychiatrists first spend 6 years getting a general medical degree then another 6 years or so on top of that specialising in psychiatry? Just think about that.

Speaking for myself, I've gone through the "d" word, and as usual, it happened to me in some of these key stressful times, which studies have shown, can effect people in that way:

- Death of a loved one, close friend/family, etc.
- Losing your job, having to find a new job
- Moving house (or moving country, eg. refugees)
- Relationship breakdown - esp. with a romantic partner, but even something like a big fight between friends

It depends on the individual how you deal with these issues. There is a whole spectrum of psychological responses to such major changes. Coping with change is the biggie in life today, always has been. Of course, it becomes a disorder if you are having problems living a normal life, eg. changing in a big way for the worse.

Psychological disorder is NOT a weakness or deficiency. Studies show at least 1 out 5 Australians have depression some time throughout their lives. Doesn't necessarily have to be the disadvantaged in society. Friends revolving around higher circles than me say there are a lot of lawyers and doctors at the highest levels of their profession who for example turn to illegal drugs for "treatment" of their psychological disorders. Beverly Hills is the most screwed up place on the planet. Just ask CArrie Fisher - they were rich, lived there, her childhood was basically spent looking after her parents who were users. It was horrible & not surprisingly, she had developed addiction problems herself. But on the surface, they were a "happy family."

How you deal with it depends on you, as Huilunsoittaja says above. There are various ways, you have to find the right one/s. Getting back to work and being active is a good idea as Hilltroll suggests, but good to go easy on yourself in these situations, eg. work part time or drop some hours/days if you can. You need time to recover and heal. You need a support network around you, which could be family, friends, health professionals, colleagues, members of your church if you are into that, and so on.

In this country, since this is a major issue now, the RUOK? campaign has been a way of talking about and destigmatising these illnesses. That's what they are, illnesses. Some people, a minority of people, may well "put it on," but I doubt that's the usual thing. There have been some exposures here of people saying they're legally blind then caught in their backyard, on film, cutting the grass or hanging out the washing. But most blind people I have come across over the years sure weren't putting it on, guys.

Basic thing is to talk about it, don't put it in the closet as in the past. When you open up, you will connect with people who have gone through the same things as you....


----------



## violadude

Hmm I have always wondered about the diagnoses of nymphomania. Exactly how much do you have to like sex to be considered "addicted to it?" Where is the line drawn between nympho and really horny teenager/young adult? lol


----------



## neoshredder

Not depressed but social anxiety and extreme sensitivity can be a pain. But I usually don't let it lead to depression. But thinking about it can bring me down.


----------



## Chrythes

I am a self diagnosed lazy *******.
Extremely hard to cope with.


----------



## Polednice

Sid, the "obvious" distinction is between people like those you described - people who experience drawn out periods of acute depression caused by some major upheaval which they cannot get through on their own - and others who have a chronic incapacity for happiness, despite the fact that there are no events in their lives that would be considered a trigger by everyone else.


----------



## Eviticus

aleazk said:


> well, all I can tell you is that I'm alone and that I suffer because of that. I used to like being alone, now I'm sick of it.


Me too. I believe being lonely started my anxiety disorder.

I went through a spate of panic attacks in the middle of the night followed by extreme anxiety (partly brought on by the frequent attacks) a few years ago - no sleeping (i used to get the oddest thing of my heart dipping in to my stomach at intervals of about every 20 seconds like my foot had just slipped of a curb), random aches and pains that i then worried about, no appetite and all of this made me feel incredibly down and that no could possibly understand what i was going through and that i was somehow going mad. Medication and counselling followed and proved that this is actually incredibly common especially in men when they hit their early-mid 20's. I got better but i have to battle anxiety constantly (i think my current health anxiety has just replaced the loner one).

There are only 3 things i know for sure about people that suffer with this:
1) Once you go through this you can never go back to being who you were before. It's kind of like a lamb happily playing in a field all it's life and then without noticing some how straying in to another strange/scary field. You can get back - but often you look up and find you've strayed back in to that scary place.
2) I am not alone.
3) There are always better days just round the corner.

Thanks for starting this thread - its already made me feel better.


----------



## Igneous01

I guess that explains how depression can be a feedback loop - being down about something and then being brought down more because the stigma attached to it when you try to open up, which only makes it worse. Unfortunately its happened to me every single time, my family didnt take me seriously when I said it, and my doctor didnt take it seriously either (he thought I was still using drugs), both said the same thing: your faking it/its not serious. And now Ive kind of become a recluse because I lost the ability to express myself completely to anyone else.

So, it turns out it can be dangerous as well, when not handled correctly.


----------



## Ukko

Igneous01 said:


> I guess that explains how depression can be a feedback loop - being down about something and then being brought down more because the stigma attached to it when you try to open up, which only makes it worse. Unfortunately its happened to me every single time, my family didnt take me seriously when I said it, and my doctor didnt take it seriously either (he thought I was still using drugs), both said the same thing: your faking it/its not serious. And now Ive kind of become a recluse because I lost the ability to express myself completely to anyone else.
> 
> So, it turns out it can be dangerous as well, when not handled correctly.


I suspect that attempts to 'express yourself completely' are unwelcome to anyone who isn't getting paid to hear it. There is no reason to expect family or friends to be able to handle it, much less have useful advice. That includes non-specialist MDs.


----------



## Polednice

Hilltroll72 said:


> There is no reason to expect family or friends to be able to handle it, much less have useful advice. That includes non-specialist MDs.


I don't think Igneous was talking about that; he was talking about family and friends taking him seriously, which everyone is capable of.


----------



## Ukko

Polednice said:


> I don't think Igneous was talking about that; he was talking about family and friends taking him seriously, which everyone is capable of.


Apparently, going by his 'like', "Igeous was talking about that". That isn't the gist of his post; and you may, if you wish, accept my word that everyone is _not_ capable of taking his problem seriously. A significant portion of the population one generation removed from his think the problem is exaggerated. _Many_ members of the generation twice removed from his think that his best option is zip up, buck up, and get on with the task of living. Those generations may be insensitive clods, but it is what it is.


----------



## Eviticus

Igneous01 said:


> I guess that explains how depression can be a feedback loop - being down about something and then being brought down more because the stigma attached to it when you try to open up, which only makes it worse. Unfortunately its happened to me every single time, my family didnt take me seriously when I said it, and my doctor didnt take it seriously either (he thought I was still using drugs), both said the same thing: your faking it/its not serious. And now Ive kind of become a recluse because I lost the ability to express myself completely to anyone else.
> 
> So, it turns out it can be dangerous as well, when not handled correctly.


People just don't understand mental health unless they have experienced it. They have a very niave attitude just like i suppose we all did before experiencing it first hand. Once upon a time i'd say things like "Depressed?! Oh we all feel down in the dumps some days", "Panic?! - What the hell is she panicking about?! What a drama queen!", "Anxiety?! don't you just get that in exams?" Then i went through hell and am much more understanding.

The people who do understand but don't want to talk about it usually fall in to one of two categories:
1. They have never experienced it themselves but have a pretty wealthy knowledge although talking about it spoils the mood.
2. They have experienced it and know first hand how bad it is and don't wan't to talk about it because they believe it may trigger thoughts and emotions that will send them down that scary path again.

You shouldn't be ashamed of opening up but be mindful of those that just don't get it. You shouldn't give in to it and become a recluse either or you will fall in to the classic 'anxiety cycle' which is negative thoughts lead to negative emotions - negative emotions and thoughts lead to physical symptoms and all 3 leads you to change your behaviour (in your case presumably becoming more introverted and anti social by being reclusive).

As a little pointed ear philosopher put it -> "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering and this leads to the dark side of the force...." (I'm sure you are aware this psychology has strong foundation in truth).

Break the cycle by trying to change either your thoughts or behaviour and you will feel better.

Seek counselling if its getting really bad as they understand and look for forums about it - i bet there are loads.

Dont give in to the dark side. The force is strong in you.... I _feel _it! 

<Invoice to follow>


----------



## Polednice

Hilltroll72 said:


> Apparently, going by his 'like', "Igeous was talking about that". That isn't the gist of his post; and you may, if you wish, accept my word that everyone is _not_ capable of taking his problem seriously. A significant portion of the population one generation removed from his think the problem is exaggerated. _Many_ members of the generation twice removed from his think that his best option is zip up, buck up, and get on with the task of living. Those generations may be insensitive clods, but it is what it is.


His post is very clear, and what you're saying is not that people are incapable, but that people are unwilling to make the effort to understand.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Sid James said:


> ...Getting back to work and being active is a good idea as Hilltroll suggests, but good to go easy on yourself in these situations, eg. work part time or drop some hours/days if you can. You need time to recover and heal. You need a support network around you, which could be family, friends, health professionals, colleagues, members of your church if you are into that, and so on.


Speaking about work, I know many (often large) companies offer professional in-house counselling to employees who are under personal stress to cope with personal issues for free (as long as you remain an employee). Confidential basis of course. I think this is an excellent way to build general staff morale (even for "normal" employees). This goes to show that corporations recognise that stress (whatever the level) has a cost on productivity amongst others coporate variables of performance.


----------



## moody

TrazomGangflow said:


> I've been diagnosed with a form of anxiety. I have a tendency to obsess over things, especially in times of stress. Personally I find that keeping busy with long term goals is the best medicine. For example, getting 1,000 posts on TC.


That's because you hang upside down, you want to be a vampire but you're not so now you are depressed


----------



## moody

violadude said:


> Hmm I have always wondered about the diagnoses of nymphomania. Exactly how much do you have to like sex to be considered "addicted to it?" Where is the line drawn between nympho and really horny teenager/young adult? lol


Should I be surprised that you think about this a lot? No, not really.


----------



## clavichorder

Anxiety and obsessional thoughts, that come from an underdeveloped emotional and cognitive resilience, and I was finally convinced to take prescription drugs for it at 14. 1) Little social things that bounce off most people wound me, and I get awkward about it, and ruin things for myself. But I carefully used the word underdeveloped, because I hope I'm not always this way. 2) I have high fear of failure. 

Final: don't presume that I am especially proud of my diagnoses. I hate that I have such potential to be off-puttingly weird, as I feel not liked by people in general, and really, I might in fact make that a self fulfilling prophecy for some people. If only I could care less.


----------



## Ukko

Polednice said:


> His post is very clear, and what you're saying is not that people are incapable, but that people are unwilling to make the effort to understand.


Apparently a different 'clear' to you than to me.

Damn straight people are unwilling to make the effort - to _attempt_ to understand. If the 'people' aren't professionals they ain't _going_ to understand. Hell, he's lucky if the _pro_ gets a clear understanding. The stuff that bumps and tiptoes and creeps and bangs around inside our heads gets filtered on it's way out of our mouths - or fingers on a keyboard. The pro has to figure out what the filter is doing, before he can even start with the things that bump in the night in there.

And you think you can just dump that mess on a family member or friend?


----------



## Polednice

Hilltroll72 said:


> Apparently a different 'clear' to you than to me.
> 
> Damn straight people are unwilling to make the effort - to _attempt_ to understand. If the 'people' aren't professionals they ain't _going_ to understand. Hell, he's lucky if the _pro_ gets a clear understanding. The stuff that bumps and tiptoes and creeps and bangs around inside our heads gets filtered on it's way out of our mouths - or fingers on a keyboard. The pro has to figure out what the filter is doing, before he can even start with the things that bump in the night in there.
> 
> And you think you can just dump that mess on a family member or friend?


I'm not sure what it is you're finding difficult about this! All Igneous was saying was that he wanted to be able to say to his family and friends, "I'm depressed" without them thinking he's a moron. He doesn't want them to psychoanalyse, he doesn't want them to offer advice, he just wants them to not treat him like an idiot.


----------



## Sid James

Polednice said:


> Sid, the "obvious" distinction is between people like those you described - people who experience drawn out periods of acute depression caused by some major upheaval which they cannot get through on their own - and others who have a chronic incapacity for happiness, despite the fact that there are no events in their lives that would be considered a trigger by everyone else.


Yes, there is a difference between the more acute types of psychological disorders which I described, and the more chronic types which you are talking about. Of course, both can happen at the same time as well.

I think that in some cases, there is no "cure." But people have been able to manage these disorders and live their lives fully, or fully as they can. Eg. look at John Nash, the the American mathematician who won a Nobel Prize. He had schizophrenia type disorder, I think. The film with Russell Crowe called _A Beautiful Mind _told the story of his life.

Then there's Oprah Winfrey, who due to circumstances growing up in poverty, and issues of physical abuse as a teenager, as well as date rape, really had many issues of this type. Depression, low self esteem, these types of things. She has talked openly about these issues, and raised awareness of them. I think she can be a model how you can deal with and cofront with these issues and really lift others up as well. Of course, it can be on a smaller scale, you don't have to have an international profile like her. Many prominent Australians have gone through depression, eg. one of the older ones is 3 times (I think at least?) Olympian swimmer Dawn Fraser. She's of the older generation - must be pushing eighty now - but she has also talked about these issues. With her, it was the premature death of her brother which really got her down in a serious way.

I think by talking about this, here and in our lives, we can make a difference. As for what Hilltroll says, it can work in some cases, it may not in others. A number of the returned war veterans, after World War II, they had these disorders. Now they label it post traumatic stress disorder, but in those days, they didn't know about it on a medical level. So many went untreated, and "treated" themselves with alcohol. This is not theory but in my experience. Some went as far as commit suicide. Of course the generation that fought in Vietnam was not much better off. So would you tell these men just to "get on with it" after witnessing those atrocities? It's a one size fits all solution, that's what I'm saying (eg. doesn't always work).

As Harpsichord Concerto says, businesses here are pulling their weight to deal with this. Of course the public sector has been doing it for a while now, good that the corporate sector is doing the same...


----------



## Vaneyes

I am not sure.

View attachment 3124


----------



## Ukko

Polednice said:


> I'm not sure what it is you're finding difficult about this! All Igneous was saying was that he wanted to be able to say to his family and friends, "I'm depressed" without them thinking he's a moron. He doesn't want them to psychoanalyse, he doesn't want them to offer advice, he just wants them to not treat him like an idiot.


OK, I'll try this again. [Sorry _Igneous_ I'm not sure how you got in the middle of this.] Here's what the guy posted:

"_I guess that explains how depression can be a feedback loop - being down about something and then being brought down more because the stigma attached to it when you try to open up, which only makes it worse. Unfortunately its happened to me every single time, my family didnt take me seriously when I said it, and my doctor didnt take it seriously either (he thought I was still using drugs), both said the same thing: your faking it/its not serious. And now Ive kind of become a recluse because I lost the ability to express myself completely to anyone else._"

I see no reason for him to 'open up', if he doesn't want help dealing with it. Help = advice, unless you are suggesting folk medicine.

I'm going to leave _Igneous_ alone now.


----------



## Polednice

Hilltroll72 said:


> I see no reason for him to 'open up', if he doesn't want help dealing with it. Help = advice, unless you are suggesting folk medicine.
> 
> I'm going to leave _Igneous_ alone now.


His post doesn't read like that of someone who doesn't want help; it reads like someone who wanted help and couldn't get any.


----------



## Igneous01

@Eviticus, Polednice

Thank you for the inspiring and encouraging words Eviticus, I think thats the first time I've had someone raise my spirits like this for a few years now, although I'm indifferent to emotional expression right now. Thank you

And Poly was right, maybe I should have made it a little more clear, removing the word "completely" out of that statement. But it would be nice to say "I have a problem, and its affecting my life" to someone in front of me, rather than try to battle my wits while at the same time controlling facial expression so it doesn't look like I am going insane. But there are have been times when its been dangerously close.

I am seeking counselling now, but It doesn't look very promising either.


----------



## moody

Eviticus' two posts on his problems yesterday are the best that I have ever seen . I know this because they mirror what happened to me in the 1960's. I had gone through all sorts of dangerous situations in the army but had experienced no problems. But ,fairly suddenly, things came creeping up on me until I was sure a) I was going to die and b) I was going crazy. This is the point where you climb upon the carousel that goes, as carousels do, nowhere. I was sent to see a number of loon doctors ,all of them were quite nuts and I rowed with them all. I was supplied with a cocktail of drugs, chief of which was the insidious Valium (it was all the rage then).Valium is an extremely nasty drug that is addictive and that also thrusts you into a twilight world. I was taking so many pills that my work colleagues would laugh because they could hear me coming . This was caused by the various pill bottles rattling around in my briefcase. Then one day a doctor told me that I should buy a book by an Australian lady doctor by the name of Dr. Claire Weekes. The title of the book was "How To Live With Your Nerves" and is available still at Amazon.Every sympton that I had was in this book which made me realise that I was not alone , but was only one of thousands. The answers to dealing with the problems were there as well . One day my wife was away camping with the kids and I was lying in the garden , when suddenly I stood up and gathered all this medication together and dumped it in the garbage. I told myself that I was OK and that I was now in charge although I still look at the book from time to time . This resolution may not be safe in some circumstances. We are all at different age levels and the younger you are the more difficult things appear to be, it's not easy being a teenager .But the great secret is self esteem , to have the knowledge inside you that you are somebody and have something to say. Once you make this decision you will be surprised, you WILL be listened to as long as you step up to the plate.You must decide that you are important and that you are right. It doesn't matter that you may not be, but are you going to go through life saying: "Well I want to speak out , but maybe I'd better not in case I'm wrong." The other thing that must be pointed out is that you cannot escape from the real world. On a forum like this you are interacting with people but you can't see them or talk to them directly. Mostly you don't even know what they look like , I'm quite convinced that Lisztian looks just like Liszt. Interaction with this real world will come and must be faced, but you can do it on your terms. Meanwhile build up a network of family and friends who will make the effort to understand you and will be there for you. But don't over do it as they are precious and must not be worn down.


----------



## clavichorder

I was cold turkey on my pills this last week, and now I'm back on them again. My mother convinced me to get back on them. She convinced me by saying she was scared that I might experience a nasty side effect from sudden withdrawals, as I was feeling jerky physically, and my sense of balance felt askew. I didn't have the fortitude to argue with her, I didn't feel like experiencing that unpleasantness, so I quickly agreed, with a compromise, to get back on them. The compromise was that I am taking less of cytalopram. Only my talk with my mom made me scared that there was something wrong with me off them, so I went further and am taking my full dose again as though nothing happened. 

That book sounds interesting moody. I guess I'll wait though, to fight my liberation from meds.


----------



## Polednice

Igneous01 said:


> I am seeking counselling now, but It doesn't look very promising either.


Most talk therapy will be Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), or something vaguely similar if the person isn't officially trained. Essentially, it's about noticing your thoughts, behaviours, emotions and actions, and trying to rationally cut the cycle of depression.

CBT has been demonstrated to work very well in a lot of people, but don't be disheartened if it doesn't work for you - it didn't for me, and I had a _lot_ of it. If you find talk therapy fails you, I would recommend you look into Mindfulness. That's less about trying to go about fixing your problems, and more about putting yourself in a frame of mind where you can acknowledge certain feelings but not be affected by them.


----------



## Lisztian

moody said:


> I'm quite convinced that Lisztian looks just like Liszt.


You heard him TC ladiez...


----------



## clavichorder

Lisztian said:


> You heard him TC ladiez...


I think I look like I'm playing on the other team with my avatar.


----------



## Sid James

I particularly liked moody's post, as many did, because he talked directly from experience.

I think the thing is that sometimes the person opening up about these issues does not necessarily want advice, just someone to listen. Listening is an underrated skill I think, these days. Too many times, tell anyone about some personal issue - or doesn't have to be personal, it could be work related or other things - and they jump at giving advice to you. & the worse sort of advice is the attitude that if you don't take their advice 110 per cent, you are insulting them, they don't want to hear this anymore. YOu are a burden. They put words into your mouth, assume things that are not there, etc. So it's not advice in other words, it's an order.

So often family is not a good context. Too much emotionally loaded, they are subjective. I find closer friends better, they are more objective, they can step back from ramming "advice" down your throat and just listen to what you're saying (& give advice if you ask for it). Same goes for health professionals, they are trained to be objective and tailor their advice/help to your needs, not theirs - that's what they're trained to do, give you a range of options, not just one (false dichotomy of the worst kind), then "punishment" if you're not willing to take what they say wholus bolus...


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Ha, can't believe I didn't come across this thread before.

In all seriousness, I have no idea if I have a mental problem or not.


----------



## Tero

I have a problem in this area that the professionals then assume also is tied with depression. But my brain and chemicals are not made that way, I do not get depression. The longest period I had a problem was in graduate school and finishing my thesis. But you can see it was just the situation, if I get out of the unpleasant situation I have no problems. I can't handle too much stress.

A couple of years back my company union workers went on strike. I had to do packaging for two or three months. It was actually pleasant work but long hours. They could not fire me, they never fired any of us scabs. A few got sent back to regular work if they just did not function at the strike job.

By the way, I never checked, is the community forum such that outsiders can't see these posts?


----------



## Lisztian

I suffer from melancholic depression and social anxiety disorder, as well as mild forms of OCD and ADHD. Medication has actually helped a great deal, but i'm still very low functioning and self destructive even if I feel a fair bit better most of the time - it can be difficult to break bad habits and make better ones. It's also so easy to try and do too much when you want to be somewhere that you're not, but you've been so low functioning for so long. Doing so little and still struggling and burning out, especially when you're a person who is extremely ambitious, highly neurotic and has a deeply engrained inferiority complex, can be very frustrating when you're at such a low and empty part of your life.


----------



## superhorn

The sayng goes that "insanity is heredititary - you get it from your children !"













:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## myaskovsky2002

I answered no. Maybe i should ask my kins.... LOL.

Martin


----------



## superhorn

My problem isn't depression. It's frustration . I've gone through so many setbacks, job rejections and bad breaks in life it's caused me emotional problems , and I sometimes have fits of rage .But I get over them and go back to normal pretty quickly .
Fortunately, I have a very strong will, and all these setbacks ,rather than making me suicidal as it would with other people in my shoes ,only made me more determined to keep on trying. I'm a glutton for emotionall punishment . It's not easy to live with so much frustration, but I manage .
Unfortunately, I ever achieved the success in life my musical talent brought me , and now I am confined to a wheelchair because of a mysterious neurological disorder which makes it very difficult to walk .
My legs have becme extremely spastic and I can only walk with a walker or if I have something to hold on to .
All the neurological tests on me have been inconclusive . What I have may be something related to multiple sclerosis according to my neurologists . In order for your neural system to function normally , you need what are called the myelin sheaths around the nerve cells; some people have what is called demyelinization, which destroys these myelin sheaths, and this is believed to be the cause of MS . This may be caused by something which goes wrong with the auto immune system and attacks it .


----------



## mstar

Wow, I'm something of a perfectionist, but that's not a mental problem.... 

Why am I reviving this thread? No regrets....


----------



## Kieran

mstar said:


> Wow, I'm something of a perfectionist, but that's not a mental problem....
> 
> Why am I reviving this thread? No regrets....


Because it wasn't yet perfect? 

I was told I'm a perfectionist too, which I found hard to understand, given that I'm a flighty, lazy so and so. But I was told that perfectionism isn't like OCD where somebody is driven crazy by the arrangement of things around them, nor is it necessarily related to stickability. It's something more _inner _than that, apparently, which makes sense if you can make sense of it...


----------



## mstar

Kieran said:


> Because it wasn't yet perfect?
> 
> I was told I'm a perfectionist too, which I found hard to understand, given that I'm a flighty, lazy so and so. But I was told that perfectionism isn't like OCD where somebody is driven crazy by the arrangement of things around them, nor is it necessarily related to stickability. It's something more _inner _than that, apparently, which makes sense if you can make sense of it...


I certainly do like that definition. I think, though, my perfectionism might go hand-in-hand with my "germophobia." 

Speaking of which, my iPad screen is DIRTY!!!!!! No, it's not dirty, it's just natural hand oils.... That's all.... Okay, going to clean it.


----------



## Kieran

mstar said:


> I certainly do like that definition. I think, though, my perfectionism might go hand-in-hand with my "germophobia."
> 
> Speaking of which, my iPad screen is DIRTY!!!!!! No, it's not dirty, it's just natural hand oils.... That's all.... Okay, going to clean it.


Interestingly, I have a germophobia! Gets a bit awkward in certain places and situations. I avoid shaking hands, for example, though I overcome that during mass, sign of peace etc. But it makes me fretful. Door handles. On public toilet doors. Cracked cups. Coins. Yuck! I have a lot of stuff I try not touch because of germs...


----------



## Cheyenne

Depression is so painful to witness. Among my most used phrases must be 'oh, cheer up', but when the problem lies deeper there's hardly anything I can do. I wonder why one observes it so often nowadays? At least on the Internet: I've only seen one case in real life myself, though that was an extreme one, on the edge of the abyss. The shiver I felt going down my spine when I observed marks from self-mutilation was quite painful. 

I hope I stay mentally sound - I've been doing well so far :lol: ...


----------



## Garlic

I have various mental health issues, as well as Asperger's/autism (which I don't consider a mental illness). Mental health services are truly pathetic, at least in this country, and they're only going to get worse with recent cuts. I've been trying unsuccessfully to get therapy for years, it's very difficult if you aren't willing to pay huge amounts of money for private sessions.

Mental health problems are still largely treated with suspicion and disbelief. No one would dream of telling someone with an organ dysfunction to pull themselves together, but if the problem is with the brain it's considered acceptable. People whose issues prevent them from working are labelled lazy, scroungers, shirkers, skivers. People want so desperately to believe that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed that they have to demonise those who don't. Of course this just further alienates people, making their problems worse.


----------



## Ingélou

When I was young, I suffered from panic attacks, and I am still an anxious person, given to stress-related illnesses. However, someone I know well has bipolar disorder, and that is a terrible thing, although this person copes very bravely with it. 

I so agree that mental health issues are not dealt with well, either by 'the system' or by the public. There is a stigma attached to sufferers which is very unfair.


----------



## Ukko

"My mental problem is that I am way smarter than most everybody I meet, yet too stupid to understand why I annoy people so much."

[The above is a 'prose caricature' of of an attitude masquerading as a mental chemistry problem. Nobody here should feel that he is targeted... ]


----------



## mstar

Kieran said:


> Interestingly, I have a germophobia! Gets a bit awkward in certain places and situations. I avoid shaking hands, for example, though I overcome that during mass, sign of peace etc. But it makes me fretful. Door handles. On public toilet doors. Cracked cups. Coins. Yuck! I have a lot of stuff I try not touch because of germs...


Ehe, I don't blame you.... Door handles I always use with one or two fingers. I use Clorox wipes on my keyboard and mouse almost every day. I've also gotten sick more than once from the following: 
-Allowing intense air circulation (fans, windows, etc.) in the winter. 
-Brushing my teeth 5-7 times a day (no exaggeration). 
-Washing my hands too many times in a given amount of time. 
-Not drinking water often enough (once someone's touched the bottle, forget it. It's not mine.).

Ah, the germophobes, what to do....

I'm going to pore over a microbiology textbook right now, it's the second edition, but I want the third.... I don't know whether to continue or not.


----------



## Ingélou

Germophobia is a branch of obsessive compulsive disorder, which can be a distressing thing, so I hope, Kieran & mstar, that it develops no further.

I think this thread, where people can be open about mental problems, and in a kind, supportive atmosphere (one would *hope*), is a useful one. Mental problems can either be down to brain chemistry or to life traumas, and in some cases it can't be determined which. The OP may be wondering whether the sensitivity associated with musicianship is related to mental problems. The popular idea is that it is, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to prove.


----------



## Ukko

mstar said:


> [...]
> I'm going to pore over a microbiology textbook right now, it's the second edition, but I want the third.... I don't know whether to continue or not.


 This because the newer edition may reveal new bugs for you to obsess about? Fear of being considered old-fashioned because you aren't up-to-date in your phobias?

This is actually a more sensible obsession (though not by much) than worrying that your jeans pantleg tear is the wrong distance from the kneecap.

[once again a complaint because there is no useful geezer emoticon on tap]


----------



## mstar

Ingenue said:


> Germophobia is a branch of obsessive compulsive disorder, which can be a distressing thing, so I hope, Kieran & mstar, that it develops no further.
> 
> I think this thread, where people can be open about mental problems, and in a kind, supportive atmosphere (one would *hope*), is a useful one. Mental problems can either be down to brain chemistry or to life traumas, and in some cases it can't be determined which. The OP may be wondering whether the sensitivity associated with musicianship is related to mental problems. The popular idea is that it is, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to prove.


It's bothersome, and I am very specific about things (especially grammar, diction, etc.). Even so, I like it.  I can connect so many different things now with my beloved biology.

Anyway, I think the only reason it is considered as a disorder is because everything, from energy to matter, tends to head from maximum order to maximum disorder. This I find to be false, and if you are really thinking that I am some odd 15 year old girl to challenge scientists, well then, you don't want to see some of my rants on the "big questions." Particularly patterns and dimensions.  To continue on the previous subject, I don't look at "germohobia" or being very specific about organization and order a mental illness.

Even so, if an odd word is mentioned in front of me, my brain may repeat it for a long period of time. For example, two weeks ago, it was completely stuck on "kopachris" because of how the sound was perceived. Also, "kontrapunctus," perhaps because of the k. There is a differerence in the pronunciation of a "hard" c and a k in my mind....

I also have the problem of ...., which I tend to use to express an idea that may not be complete or entirely developed. I use it often, as you may have noticed, and it is simply comforting. This idea is not over, it seems to say....


----------



## moody

mstar said:


> Wow, I'm something of a perfectionist, but that's not a mental problem....
> 
> Why am I reviving this thread? No regrets....


So that's what you are--I've been wondering.


----------



## mstar

moody said:


> So that's what you are--I've been wondering.


Read the post above yours. That should give you an even better idea.... 

Okay, for the biggest phenomenon I experienced:

REMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREMREM

rAPID eYE mOVEMENT....

(Yes, my dreams....)


----------



## Ingélou

mstar said:


> It's bothersome, and I am very specific about things (especially grammar, diction, etc.). Even so, I like it.  I can connect so many different things now with my beloved biology.
> 
> Anyway, I think the only reason it is considered as a disorder is because everything, from energy to matter, tends to head from maximum order to maximum disorder. This I find to be false...


I will beg to differ on this one. Yes, it is fairly normal to be obsessive about some things - I am, about checking taps and locks - but I have had students who had full blown obsessive compulsive disorder, and that is on another level, and a serious anxiety disorder. These students were really suffering.


----------



## mstar

mstar said:


> Read the post above yours. That should give you an even better idea....
> 
> Okay, for the biggest phenomenon I experienced:
> 
> rAPID eYE mOVEMENT....
> 
> (Yes, my dreams....)


Edit: No, forget that! I'm thinking along the lines of NREM parasomnia - I often use cognitive abilities, forming and doing exams, in my sleep, etc.!


----------



## Kieran

Yeah, I had a colleague with OCD, and she couldn't sleep at night until the ironing was done. This, after putting in an 8 hour shift in accounts, where her obsession and attention to detail were often more a hindrance and a drain, a slow-down of things, than a help, and then she'd clean the house top to bottom, race about with her kids, pick up after her husband because she doesn't think he does things right - all manner of stresses and anxieties and phobias would manifest themselves through this condition.

Germaphobia! Well, mstar, I'm going the opposite way to you in dealing with it - I'm trying to throw myself into the dirt (metaphorically speaking) and trying to overcome my aversions. So...a doggie licked my face. And I waited a good five minutes before I darted to the bathroom. Instead of removing a spider with a glass and paper I picked the hairy dusty dangler up in my hand and chucked him out a window. Washed my hand but got it "dirty" in the first place.

Door handles are still something I touch with one finger - or even a handkerchief if no-one's around. Coins too, I consider to be a huge problem for me. Money is dirty for so many different reasons, eh? :lol:


----------



## mstar

Ingenue said:


> I will beg to differ on this one. Yes, it is fairly normal to be obsessive about some things - I am, about checking taps and locks - but I have had students who had full blown obsessive compulsive disorder, and that is on another level, and a serious anxiety disorder. These students were really suffering.


No doubt they are suffering, but in less extremity than unfathomable terror, why is OCD considered a disorder? I propose because "everything, from energy to matter, tends to head from maximum order to maximum disorder." That is a scientific rule/law, I believe.


----------



## mstar

Kieran said:


> Yeah, I had a colleague with OCD, and she couldn't sleep at night until the ironing was done. This, after putting in an 8 hour shift in accounts, where her obsession and attention to detail were often more a hindrance and a drain, a slow-down of things, than a help, and then she'd clean the house top to bottom, race about with her kids, pick up after her husband because she doesn't think he does things right - all manner of stresses and anxieties and phobias would manifest themselves through this condition.
> 
> Germaphobia! Well, mstar, I'm going the opposite way to you in dealing with it - I'm trying to throw myself into the dirt (metaphorically speaking) and trying to overcome my aversions. So...a doggie licked my face. And I waited a good five minutes before I darted to the bathroom. Instead of removing a spider with a glass and paper I picked the hairy dusty dangler up in my hand and chucked him out a window. Washed my hand but got it "dirty" in the first place.
> 
> Door handles are still something I touch with one finger - or even a handkerchief if no-one's around. Coins too, I consider to be a huge problem for me. Money is dirty for so many different reasons, eh? :lol:


Yes, definitely money.... But oh, Kieran! Don't you think of the microscopic pathogens in the dog's mouth? The fermented "food"? The lingering residue from when the dog may have licked/cleaned its-uh, itself?! Ohhhhh.... Five minutes, it would have sunken into your pores, and don't think your immune system's going to go all-out to destroy it....

Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I don't mind my germophobia! At least this way no one will ever find me to be disgusting, no?


----------



## Kieran

mstar said:


> Yes, definitely money.... But oh, Kieran! Don't you think of the microscopic pathogens in the dog's mouth? The fermented "food"? The lingering residue from when the dog may have licked/cleaned its-uh, itself?! Ohhhhh.... Five minutes, it would have sunken into your pores, and don't think your immune system's going to go all-out to destroy it....
> 
> Sorry, sorry, sorry.... I don't mind my germophobia! At least this way no one will ever find me to be disgusting, no?


:lol: I did! And she's a beautiful dog! Coulda been worse though - coulda been a cat!

But still, I'm trying to put it in my mind - *this will not kill you, this will not harm, it happens to people every single day, get over it.*

It's a hard one, but I put it in the mix. A lot of stuff I filter through my faith and it comes out shining. But I know that being overly hygienic has a weakening effect too, as you found out when you brushed your teeth down to stumps. Overdoing it ruins our immunity. One day in work last year I was eating my sandwiches in the canteen. Be prepared to feel sick! A lad who works there, who I know doesn't wash his hands after...he _finishes, _thought it funny to pick up my next sandwich and then put it back down on the pile of the rest of my sandwiches.

Lunch over. 

I was very discreet, and of course I finished the one that was in my hand, but I made an excuse and took my lunch elsewhere and binned it. Now, this is probably normal, but I would have binned the sambos had almost 99% of people had done the same...


----------



## jani

I don't know but this thread is clearly insane.


----------



## SiegendesLicht

Crudblud said:


> The problem with asking this question is that those of us who are actually diagnosed with such illnesses are probably outnumbered by those who self-diagnose with no frame of reference or even those who simply say "oh, I'm depressed" when they're simply having a bad day. Depression is also the go-to fad mental illness for teenagers who want to appear deep and sensitive, it suggests that you are filled with a deep sadness but are not "crazy," which means if you dress a certain way and hang out in certain places you can get laid much easier.


There is another side to this, namely, pretty much every deviation from some sort of "standard" (in inverted commas because people cannot really conform to any single standard) being labeled as a disorder or a mental problem: people who are introverted and like to be alone rather than hang out as much as they can are labeled as autists, people with a great passion for some particular field of study who devote all their time to it are labeled as having Asperger's, kids who are more active than the rest or who are simply undisciplined as a result of poor parenting are labeled with ADHD etc, etc.

Personally I don't seem to have any problems, but I am quite introverted (I talk to dozens of people on my job every day just fine, but when I come home I mostly want to be alone), and there was a time when I thought something was wrong about me, so I tried to put on this artificial super-extroverted, outgoing persona, but I am just not good at pretending.


----------



## Blancrocher

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is another side to this, namely, pretty much every deviation from some sort of "standard" (in inverted commas because people cannot really conform to any single standard) being labeled as a disorder or a mental problem: people who are introverted and like to be alone rather than hang out as much as they can are labeled as autists, people with a great passion for some particular field of study who devote all their time to it are labeled as having Asperger's, kids who are more active than the rest or who are simply undisciplined as a result of poor parenting are labeled with ADHD etc, etc.
> 
> Personally I don't seem to have any problems, but I am quite introverted (I talk to dozens of people on my job every day just fine, but when I come home I mostly want to be alone), and there was a time when I thought something was wrong about me, so I tried to put on this artificial super-extroverted, outgoing persona, but I am just not good at pretending.


This reminds me, I've always been bothered by the fact that many old books about psychology--and some new ones--use "neuroticism" when "introversion" would be more appropriate.


----------



## moody

Kieran said:


> Interestingly, I have a germophobia! Gets a bit awkward in certain places and situations. I avoid shaking hands, for example, though I overcome that during mass, sign of peace etc. But it makes me fretful. Door handles. On public toilet doors. Cracked cups. Coins. Yuck! I have a lot of stuff I try not touch because of germs...


But that's actually common sense.


----------



## moody

jani said:


> I don't know but this thread is clearly insane.


Well, it's about serious matters and that's not your thing.


----------



## mstar

Kieran said:


> :lol: I did! And she's a beautiful dog! Coulda been worse though - coulda been a cat!
> 
> But still, I'm trying to put it in my mind - *this will not kill you, this will not harm, it happens to people every single day, get over it.*
> 
> It's a hard one, but I put it in the mix. A lot of stuff I filter through my faith and it comes out shining. But I know that being overly hygienic has a weakening effect too, as you found out when you brushed your teeth down to stumps. Overdoing it ruins our immunity. One day in work last year I was eating my sandwiches in the canteen. Be prepared to feel sick! A lad who works there, who I know doesn't wash his hands after...he _finishes, _thought it funny to pick up my next sandwich and then put it back down on the pile of the rest of my sandwiches.
> 
> Lunch over.
> 
> I was very discreet, and of course I finished the one that was in my hand, but I made an excuse and took my lunch elsewhere and binned it. Now, this is probably normal, but I would have binned the sambos had almost 99% of people had done the same...


Oooh, I would've given him such a stare....


----------



## moody

Anybody reading through this will be glad to hear that my friend Josh--Lisztian--is "normal" now. Whatever that may be !!


----------



## mstar

jani said:


> I don't know but this thread is clearly insane.


All threads I post more than three times are most likely insane as well.


----------



## neoshredder

Extremely sensitive. Not just emotionally but physically as well. It is quite an annoying problem to have.


----------



## Gilberto

mstar said:


> All threads I post more than three times are most likely insane as well.


The more you post, the more normal I feel. Bless you.


----------



## Piwikiwi

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is another side to this, namely, pretty much every deviation from some sort of "standard" (in inverted commas because people cannot really conform to any single standard) being labeled as a disorder or a mental problem: people who are introverted and like to be alone rather than hang out as much as they can are labeled as autists, people with a great passion for some particular field of study who devote all their time to it are labeled as having Asperger's, kids who are more active than the rest or who are simply undisciplined as a result of poor parenting are labeled with ADHD etc, etc.
> 
> Personally I don't seem to have any problems, but I am quite introverted (I talk to dozens of people on my job every day just fine, but when I come home I mostly want to be alone), and there was a time when I thought something was wrong about me, so I tried to put on this artificial super-extroverted, outgoing persona, but I am just not good at pretending.


There is a big difference between autism and being introverted and being an active kid and adhd.


----------



## Stargazer

Piwikiwi said:


> There is a big difference between autism and being introverted and being an active kid and adhd.


This is true. I was diagnosed with Aspergers as a child. While I would not call it a "mental problem", as the thread is titled, it is definitely a mental issue that has caused a significant amount of problems in my life. Introverts typically don't socialize because they prefer not to, but are capable of it when they want to. Whereas with Aspergers, you have to learn from scratch and constantly think about many of the social conventions that other people take for granted...such as body language, intonation, facial expressions, etc. And it is of course possible to be both (I am), or to only be one...there are quite a few extroverts with Aspergers. I consider it a never-ending lesson...and though in my case a great deal of progress has been made, there is always much left to learn.


----------



## Art Rock

I suffered from depression in the mid nineties after a love affair ended badly at the same time that my career was stuck. Managed to bounce back from both within a few years and have never looked back.
I do have a mild form of Obsessive-compulsive disorder: when someone else has laid out my fork, knife and spoon, I have to re-arrange them myself (usually shifting them less than 1 cm).


----------



## shangoyal

Wow, seeing this thread made me feel so good somehow, I felt gratitude. Is that a sign of depression?


----------



## aleazk

Jeez... I must have been in a quite low peak when I wrote in this thread. Fortunately, I'm quite better now.


----------



## Celloman

Enjoyment of classical music is in itself a mental problem.


----------



## Cheyenne

Having recently scrutinized a Social Anxiety forum, which is a host to many people with minor to major mental problems, I have concluded that nearly 90 percent of the problems stem from or at least involve a lack of social contact - more specifically, a lack of friends. Orwell, in one of his essays, concluded, when perusing bachelor ads in magazines, the following:

"_What these things really demonstrate is the atrocious loneliness of people living in big towns. People meet for work and then scatter to widely separated homes. Anywhere in inner London it is probably exceptional to know even the names of the people who live next door._"

Almost all of the people on the forum mentioned earlier tell their stories, and most of them are quite similar: they go to their school or do their job in abject loneliness, having never befriended anyone there, and afterwards trod home and continue spending the remaining hours of the day in solitude. Occasionally they jump recklessly into romantic relations, desperate to have somebody by their side, but either the rejection makes them bitter or they end up with somebody not at all fit for them, and it only enhances their problems. It is clear what these people miss.

I state with complete sincerity that I've never encountered a problem labelled by the sufferer as 'depression' that could not be solved through friendship. In fact, the only true and severe case of actual depression I've witnessed up close was solved with exactly that, or so she told me.

I really wonder how this problem can be solved. The main meeting places are school or work, with perhaps church or clubs as additional ones for some; if it fails there, what does one tell these people to do?


----------



## Garlic

What is the solution for people who, either simply haven't developed the brain structures for effective social communication, or have the structures but can't access them somehow? These skills are learnt in childhood and adolescence, and beyond that it seems (ime) very difficult to acquire them, or learn how to use them even if you understand them intellectually. 

The only thing I know of that can genuinely transform people with social anxiety into social butterflies is MDMA. But that's a temporary solution, and may do more harm than good in the long run. It does suggest that these skills are perhaps dormant in people with social anxiety, and the problem is more to do with communication within the brain. Hopefully one day they can come up with a drug that mimics the positive actions of drugs like MDMA without any of the harmful effects.


----------



## Cheyenne

The ones that take drugs shift between happiness and guild, feelings of inferiority and a sort of superficial satisfaction; and indeed only temporary bliss. I hope with you, I hope with you.


----------



## Yardrax

I have Asperger's Syndrome.

With regards to the question of over diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorders, my Mother had suspected that I had Asperger's from the age of three. She had even considered taking me to see a Doctor and attempting to get a diagnosis, but people around her told her that it was just a personality thing, 'the way he is', and gave the usual schtick about not labeling people. Then in my late teens, after over a decade of suffering from extended periods of having a low mood, problems with bullying from peers, difficulty connecting with people and sustaining friendships, all of which was exacerbated by college, I went to the Doctor who told me that I displayed the symptoms of Asperger's.

After that getting a diagnosis was fairly simple. My Mum was supportive and had an impressive memory for my childhood development and the oddities that clued her in to the fact that something was off. But the lateness of the diagnosis did definite damage. Psychologically being socially awkward and not having any idea of why it was so difficult to communicate with people was upsetting for me and led to something of an inferiority complex. I also had a lot of problems with self-organisation and school work for which I never received the help that I needed.

Asperger's is not just being quiet and introverted. Individuals with Asperger's who don't receive proper intervention can suffer from all manner of issues with depression and difficulties with school and holding down a job. The attitude that Asperger's just means people with quirky personalities can be harmful when it prevents people from seeking help.


----------



## Sonata

Hilltroll72 said:


> I suspect that attempts to 'express yourself completely' are unwelcome to anyone who isn't getting paid to hear it. There is no reason to expect family or friends to be able to handle it, much less have useful advice. That includes non-specialist MDs.


I disagree. There's no reason why a compassionate general practitioner (physician, or midlevel provider) who has taken the time to educate themselves on mental health cannot provide some help to a person with a mental health disorder. And important that they can do so too, because there are simply not enough specialized mental health services available for these people. You'd be amazed by how much of family practice includes informal counseling. Not saying that it replaces therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists. A primary provider cannot treat very serious disorders. However, they certainly can often provide benefit for moderate depression, generalized anxiety, etc. Primary care is where most people first go with a mental health issue, and unless psychotic or seriously suicidal, it can be weeks or months before they see a specialist


----------



## Vaneyes

Do you have a mental problem? (ex. Depression)

"Who wansta know!?"

View attachment 27087


----------



## ArtMusic

Interesting thread. It explains a lot now, how certain members write/react etc. to others that irk them. As for me, I'm a happy bunny I think. I get over my blues and move on. Many younger folks I know who are "depressed" are really just fussing over nothing at all - expectations (false ones), not realising what they do already have and taking things for granted etc.


----------



## Ingélou

Yes, but many are not 'fussing over nothing at all' and some have mental problems that won't be solved just by a change of lifestyle or more friends either. I know someone with bipolar disorder who has many, many friends but it doesn't stop psychotic episodes. I'm glad you're a happy bunny, ArtMusic, but if someone has a mental disorder, it doesn't help if the rest of the world suggests that s/he 'pulls their socks up', or that they don't really need to take the medication. 

I was glad at first to see this thread & thought it a way of lessening stigma and discussing problems, but I'm surprised & dismayed by the many flippant posts that have appeared on it since it was dug up.


----------



## ArtMusic

Ingenue said:


> Yes, but many are not 'fussing over nothing at all' and some have mental problems that won't be solved just by a change of lifestyle or more friends either. I know someone with bipolar disorder who has many, many friends but it doesn't stop psychotic episodes. I'm glad you're a happy bunny, ArtMusic, but if someone has a mental disorder, it doesn't help if the rest of the world suggests that s/he 'pulls their socks up', or that they don't really need to take the medication.
> 
> I was glad at first to see this thread & thought it a way of lessening stigma and discussing problems, but I'm surprised & dismayed by the many flippant posts that have appeared on it since it was dug up.


Well, I apologise if my post has caused concern.

Yes, I know of people who have been diagnosed professionally as suffering from clinical disorders, and it is not anything I wish it on anyone. No illness, whatever its nature.


----------



## Sonata

ArtMusic said:


> Interesting thread. It explains a lot now, how certain members write/react etc. to others that irk them. As for me, I'm a happy bunny I think. I get over my blues and move on. Many younger folks I know who are "depressed" are really just fussing over nothing at all - expectations (false ones), not realising what they do already have and taking things for granted etc.


Well, there you have it. You get over your "blues" so you don't have a mental disorder. True mental health conditions are not a case of someone just being whining and dissatisfied. It goes far deeper, sometimes all the way to the brain chemistry and structure. Especially in cases like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder which are very organic in nature. On cannot just talk themselves out of an acute psychotic state.


----------



## Piwikiwi

ArtMusic said:


> Interesting thread. It explains a lot now, how certain members write/react etc. to others that irk them. As for me, I'm a happy bunny I think. I get over my blues and move on. Many younger folks I know who are "depressed" are really just fussing over nothing at all - expectations (false ones), not realising what they do already have and taking things for granted etc.


Depression can also simply have a biological cause, you can have an imbalance in certain hormons in your brains that makes you feel depressed even when you have no reasons to feel this way


----------



## Sonata

One thing I've noticed on this post: the majority of the discussion has been focused on depression. While the most common mental illness, it is far from the only one. 

As far as "talking oneself out of it" or "bucking up and not complaining" as I've seen mentioned in the earlier pages of the post. Well....as for the first, yes there can be effective ways of talking oneself out of it. It's called cognitive behavioral therapy, and it goes well beyond just trying to force yourself to be more chipper. It can be very effective but it can be difficult to achieve and usually takes months before true benefit is received.

And many truly depressed/anxious/etc people to "Buck up" and go to work and keep their problems to themselves. Sure they are "dealing with it" But who wants anyone with a serious medical condition to just get by when there is treatment available to help them get better? You wouldn't tell a diabetic to "just watch what you eat" and not give them the tools to understand HOW they need to eat properly and what kind of exercise they need. Why should mental health sufferers not get quality, compassionate care as well? Many people with mental health problems try their damndest to just cheer up or be strong, to not whine, and end up getting all the worse because they can't achieve it. So there is blame.


----------



## Sonata

Oh, and a bit of an analogy: 

I see clinically significant mental health illness as a sort of broken dial. Everyone goes through stressful life events, which may cause temporary, expected epiosdes of sadness, guilt, anger, anxiousness, etc. The more stress, the dial turns up. Meditation, rest, exercise, etc, Coping helps pull the dial back down, and the person is able to resolve and get on with their day, month, etc.

In mental health for whatever reason: biology, particular personality traits, upbringing prevents that dial from moving back down easily. The dial becomes broken in the "on" switch. So...for someone without a mental health disorder, a mentally healthy person, ADDED stressful events can push up the dial, leading to temporary emotional shifts. But if you have a real mental health disorder, it takes CONCENTRATED effort to move the dial DOWN to a healthier psyche, (ie. medication, therapy, exercise, meditation, etc)


----------



## arpeggio

*Twitching Depression*

Over the past few years I have developed an unusual problem that has effected my bassoon playing. I have an uncontrollable twitch in the little finger of my right hand. This can be a big problem when playing some of the notes on the bassoon.

I have been to three doctors, including a neurologist, and none of them could diagnose the problem.

The good news is that there is a drug that I take that controls the twitch: Gabapentin. For me it has an interesting side effect. It is normally prescribe to individuals who suffer from depression. Since I do not suffer from depression, once the medication kicks in I become a very happy person. I end up thinking that a dog like Warren Barkers arrangement _Beach Boys Bonanza_ is a masterpiece. Without the medication I want to throw-up into my bassoon when I play it.


----------



## Sonata

Gabapentin is actually an anticonvulsant; it's primary usage historically has been for seizure prevention. It's beneficial in nerve pain disorders such as nerve pain from shingles infection, or diabetic nerve damage.

It has been used in psychiatry; primarily as an add-on mood stabilizer treatment for bipolar disorder. It's almost never prescribed to individuals with "unipolar" depression.


----------



## arpeggio

*Sorry*



Sonata said:


> Gabapentin is actually an anticonvulsant; it's primary usage historically has been for seizure prevention. It's beneficial in nerve pain disorders such as nerve pain from shingles infection, or diabetic nerve damage.
> 
> It has been used in psychiatry; primarily as an add-on mood stabilizer treatment for bipolar disorder. It's almost never prescribed to individuals with "unipolar" depression.


I apologize if you felt my post was misleading. The medication was prescribed to me by my oncologist. I was just conveying what he told me about the drug.


----------



## Wandering

I worked as a CSR for a call center. After six months I was a veteran there, they had very high turnover. My social anxiety and panic was often off the charts, but I faked it well enough, a little bashful shy maybe. I wish antiperspirant and cheap t-shirts grew on trees. I developed a nervous cough. Upon the first cough of the day, I was overwhelmed by panic that this would turn into a full blown coughing fit, this is what ultimately happened. I can catastrophize myself right into the thick of my fears. No matter how much you realize your own irrational behavior, when ways of thinking and acting are so deeply ingrained, change isn't easy. Withdrawal is the easy way out, it is the exact opposite of couping.


----------



## Sonata

arpeggio said:


> I apologize if you felt my post was misleading. The medication was prescribed to me by my oncologist. I was just conveying what he told me about the drug.


Oh, no apologies neccessary, my intent wasn't to offend. I just wanted to share my knowledge of the medication. I am glad that it's helping you play! That's awesome


----------



## Cheyenne

I didn't mean to offend anyone when positing that a friend or two would drastically alter the situation of a great many people, but it was the conclusion drawn when when visiting said Soxial Anxiety forum; however, such a "treatment" affects only a very narrow 'problem', that just happens to be present in a great deal of people. Of course I should have organized it more agreeably, to make it somewhat clearer, but allow me, please, to make that emendation now. There are, in brief, three kinds of persons on said forum:

1. People with minor social issues, that are friendless and lonely, and often leap to stating they are depressed and so forth due to it.
2. People with serious Social Anxiety issues, who are afraid to walk in front of crowds, have panic attacks, dare not even speak in crowds, and all kinds of other problems. 
3. People with forms of depression - clinical depression. 

The second and third occasionally overlap, but quite often they have very little to do with each other - the people in the third category appear to visit only because the forum has grown to be a home to many people with mental problems of all kinds sorts, not only social ones. What I wished to bring a across (and did quite awkwardly) was that the majority of the people who visit the forum are (a) part of the first category, (b) teenagers, and (c) seem to lack, most of all, company.

That statement had absolutely nothing to do with people with serious mental problems, and I did not mean to attack them. It has been observed frequently already that the people of the first category often decrease the seriousness with which people of the second and third category are treated, and that is unfortunate; I myself have little experience with it so I will refrain from saying anything more about it. I by no means meant to conclude my post about depression with the woefully simplistic deduction that it was caused only by a lack of friends, and apologize, quite sincerely, for making it appear so: of course that would be nonsense.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was young, a teacher theorized I suffered from a form of autism. The foundation of this hapless theorizing was the same rather presumptuous story: I was a little introspective, a little eccentric, fond of reading, somewhat quick to process information, somewhat knowledgeable (especially on certain points of interests) - the basic line-up. Anyone who knew me well, including myself, concluded quickly that this was all hogwash, but we decided to vindicate this feeling with a test: and of course, it was seen that I was almost certainly not autistic. 'Tis a shame this happens so often, 'tis a shame.


----------



## Sonata

That's a good clarification Cheyenne and thank you for it. Friends can be all well and good, but may not be too helpful when someone with a severe anxiety episode is frozen in fear simply at the thought of preparing their work outfit for the next morning.

I would say friends, strong emotional networks...these are not curative of psychiatric disorders. But they can certainly aide in healing, and for those people who might be "at risk" then perhaps that extra support can prevent a full blown disorder from being triggered.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

Sonata said:


> Especially in cases like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder which are very organic in nature. On cannot just talk themselves out of an acute psychotic state.


There are other points of view about this, and after all, specialised talking therapies can help people to move out of psychotic states, and to relate differently to their illness. If that is the case (and robust research suggests that it is) then it's not clear that these illnesses are simply organic in nature, except in the sense that, affecting an organic organism, all illness are at some level 'organic'..


----------



## Ingélou

People with bipolar disorder usually these days are treated both with cognitive behavioural therapy *and* medication.

It's interesting that* Stephen Fry* (a British comedian & writer), who made a 'thing' out of not taking medication for his bipolar disorder, claiming to love his mania too much, has admitted recently that without his medication he became suicidal. He is now on it again. And in the many accounts of life with bipolar that I have read, sufferers say that if they stopped their medication, their lives lurched into crisis.

Though there may be _other points of view_ about mental illness, and they can certainly be triggered by life events, in my view there is a lot of evidence to support Sonata's view that some mental disorders are to do with *brain chemistry*. That doesn't conflict with the idea that talking therapies can help, however.


----------



## BurningDesire

I suffer from depression from time to time.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

I did say it's not clear that these illnesses are *simply* organic in nature, and I don't doubt the place of medication in managing psychiatric disorder.


----------



## Sonata

TurnaboutVox said:


> There are other points of view about this, and after all, specialised talking therapies can help people to move out of psychotic states, and to relate differently to their illness. If that is the case (and robust research suggests that it is) then it's not clear that these illnesses are simply organic in nature, except in the sense that, affecting an organic organism, all illness are at some level 'organic'..


But note that I never said "Simply organic" I said "very organic" fairly distinct difference there. Most chronic illnesses to some degree are multifactorial. Two people may have the genetic predisposition towards schizophrenia, but in one person there may be an "activating" event later in life causing them to develop schizophrenia. That other person who is predisposed may never have that activating event. However, my point was that there was a stronger organic component to bipolar and schizophrenia than other mental health disorders.

With regards to cognitive behavioral therapy and other forms of talk therapy being beneficial for psychotic patients: well I AGREE with you. An organized behavioral program with set goals and a specialist to help the patient navigate can be helpful for all manner of mental health illness. HOWEVER my initial comment was in response to an earlier one made by Hiltroll (last year on this thread) where he basically said people with mental illness should just buck up and talk themselves out of it.

So yes, WITH PROFESSIONAL help, I agree that therapy can help psychotics. They cannot however "talk themselves out of it" on their own GENERALLY speaking. That's why it's called psychosis, because they are no longer in touch with reality. Someone with well controlled bipolar may be able to note early signs of a manic episode and jump on treatment, but if someone GENUINELY believes the voices in their head are aliens that want to kill them......not so easy to just buck up.


----------



## Sonata

The really neat thing with Cognitive behavioral therapy is that there is scientific evidence supporting that it can actually alter brain chemistry for the better. How exciting is that?

Holistic care is important for mental health disorders, as with other medical conditions. It's not just about throwing a pill at the disease. It's about providing healthier ways of thinking, which can lead to healthier ways of feeling. Exercise is an excellent management tool for anxiety and depression, significantly alleviating symptoms in a lot of cases. Mindfullness and meditation are also important tools.

And sometimes......no matter how many of these other therapies the patient dives into, sometimes the mental illness snowballs too quickly, and they cannot function effectively enough to manage these other holistic treatments. The anxiety, the depression, the disordered thoughts of a bulimic....those symptoms can be severe enough that the cognitive faculties can't grasp the other treatments. Having a medication to get the symptoms down to a mangeable level so they may become an active participant in their own care can be a very good thing.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

I think we are really fairly well in agreement about most of this, Sonata! We're coming at it from slightly different angles, is all.

And the 'simply' in 'simply organic' was my word, my emphasis, I quite agree.


----------



## Sonata

Vox, I quite agree


----------



## mstar

TurnaboutVox said:


> I think we are really fairly well in agreement about most of this, Sonata! We're coming at it from slightly different angles, is all.
> 
> And the 'simply' in 'simply organic' was my word, my emphasis, I quite agree.


Simply organic?! Nothing's "simply organic" these days! Sheesh, I miss a day of organic chem and I'm... DOOMED. Jk, I'm just not getting much sleep....


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Yes, but many are not 'fussing over nothing at all' and some have mental problems that won't be solved just by a change of lifestyle or more friends either. I know someone with bipolar disorder who has many, many friends but it doesn't stop psychotic episodes. I'm glad you're a happy bunny, ArtMusic, but if someone has a mental disorder, it doesn't help if the rest of the world suggests that s/he 'pulls their socks up', or that they don't really need to take the medication.
> 
> I was glad at first to see this thread & thought it a way of lessening stigma and discussing problems, but I'm surprised & dismayed by the many flippant posts that have appeared on it since it was dug up.


I think it's ignorance rather than flippancy.


----------



## BlackDahlia

Diagnosed as suffering from anxiety about 10 years ago. A constant struggle. I have never taken the Xanax prescribed to me, but instead cope in different ways. Music helps. So does Tanqueray.

I am also a self-proclaimed hypocondriac who smokes and works in an old factory that lately has seen more that it's share of cancer cases.


----------



## deggial

TurnaboutVox said:


> There are other points of view about this, and after all, specialised talking therapies can help people to move out of psychotic states, and to relate differently to their illness. If that is the case (and robust research suggests that it is) then it's not clear that these illnesses are simply organic in nature, except in the sense that, affecting an organic organism, all illness are at some level 'organic'..


you know, there are a lot of diagnoses, but even more patients. Meaning, patients with similar diagnoses behave and respond (or don't respond at all) to treatment differently. Plus, plenty of times people will have a combo (psychotic illness + behavioral problems, psychotic + depression etc.) and one can be receding when the other is kicking or they both can be going at the same time. The whole thing is very complex.

anyway, I don't suffer from anything, in case anyone was wandering


----------



## Sonata

moody said:


> I think it's ignorance rather than flippancy.


Ignorance can be cured with education. This would have been a good case for people to read and listen and thus be educated.

I debated sharing my story. But it's been at the forefront of my mind lately, and this appears to be a big topic lately, so why not.
I've wondered in the past if I've had an anxiety disorder. I don't handle stress well....some of you may see that I don't handle stress well, as evidenced by my posts about work and such. Well, I have come to realize I did NOT at that time have an anxiety disorder. How did I come to that conclusion?

Because now I DO have mental illness. And the differences between now and then are so clear. The stress was there in both situations, the worry. But there are cognitive distortions now....beliefs and thoughts that I KNOW are irrational or incorrect and yet they persist in my mind. Before I would be anxious or tense under stress. But now...I can wake up after a good night of sleep and the anxiety is instantly there. My anxiety episodes started during a period of relative calm, when I was working hard on being healthy and managing my life. And the times even when one feels "well", there in the back of your mind "when is the next episode going to happen" or the analyzing WHY you feel well so you can try to repeat it.

And the idea that people with depression/anxiety/whatever are whining and just need to get "over it"? Well....I spent a month telling myself that. And instead of getting over it, I simply felt like a worse person, a weak person, even though I was trying my damndest to pull myself from the spiral by myself. I whine LESS about the mental illness than I did when I was just a "stressed out" person. I am also MORE of a positive thinker. Does that even make sense? Well I have to be optimistic if I'm going to get things turned around. I don't have the luxury of being negative.

Anyway, *shrugs* that's my experience. I thought it might be relevant to share as I've kind of been on "both sides of the fence" so recently.


----------



## Cheyenne

deggial said:


> anyway, I don't suffer from anything, in case anyone was wandering


I sure do like wandering, and going a journey.


----------



## Ingélou

:tiphat: Sonata, thank you for sharing your experience. You are generous & brave. I wish you all the very best in regaining your serenity. 

When I was at university, I had a minor breakdown based on panic attacks - I was gasping for breath, could hardly speak or walk, & thought I was having a heart attack. Before that, I had always felt that I could control things and would never crack up; after that, I lost confidence, but I did gain a lot too, in seeing what was important in life and - I hope - in being able to empathise with other anxious people. 

I still suffer dreadfully from nerves - I have just got in from a violin lesson and feel shaky and my mouth is dry - but you are so right, this sort of stress is very different from an anxiety disorder, or from the bipolar disorder that my friend suffers from.


----------



## Ukko

Hah! OK, so you think I'm an ignorant ********. I can handle that. Way back there last year, my focus was on whippersnappers who _think_ they are ill with depression (or something mysteriously and uniquely worse) - when their 'problem' is that they are too damn self-involved. If you really believe all these kids are clinically ill, you must also believe that the world's youth is in deep doo-doo. If so, _I believe_ you ought to take another check. That orange hair and nose stud thing is mostly show.

_The Grumpy Geezer_


----------



## Sonata

The point is, when the topic is mental illness, the focus should have been focus on mental illness. Not griping about lazy kids. To an extent I agree with a lot of what you are saying.....today's population today IS too self-involved. If you want to gripe about the sad state of the self-absorbed earth today, start a topic on such and I'm sure you'll have no shortage of discussion and agreement, myself included perhaps.

But when the topic was mental illness, the focus should have been on mental illness. There's enough stigma surrounding mental illness that makes it difficult for people to get the help they need. I've been tremendously lucky with a very supportive doctor, spouse, family. But such is not the case for everyone. When someone already feels shame and self-disgust for what they are going through, and then someone goes on to tell them how self-absorbed they are? Last month I was HINDERING getting treatment because I felt to do so I was being "too hung up on myself". I have to accept that time needs to be spent on myself if I'm going to be effective enough to continue caring for the people I need to care for: my children, my patients.


----------



## Ukko

Jeez, there you go again. I do _not_ believe that "today's population today IS too self-involved." I'm saying that a significant fraction of a privileged subset of today's youth is too self-involved. Some of them have gravitated into TC and got to whining about how mentally ill they are. That makes the original topic an "Oh dear, we are so mentally ill" whinefest, not an examination of mental illness.

I am sorry you are ill, really I am. I don't know you, but I do know we need all the capable PAs we can get. So take care, get well, and get to work.

!


----------



## Ingélou

If a person has a diagnosed mental illness, they need sympathy and help. If a person is extremely anxious or miserable, they need sympathy and help. In general, the world could do with a lot more sympathy and help. Sometimes a bit of bracing up may be required, but it should be done with tact and sympathy, if it's to be helpful.


----------



## deggial

Cheyenne said:


> I sure do like wandering, and going a journey.


haha, oops. To all the wanderers out there :tiphat:


----------



## Garlic

Mental illness denialism and stigmatisation is a much bigger problem than maybe a few people mistakenly self-diagnosing themselves. If someone claims to have a problem I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, because I know how horrible it feels to relate something and not be believed. Depression is at epidemic proportions but is still not taken seriously as an illness ("I can't come in to work today because I have the flu" / "I can't come in to work today because I'm depressed" - compare the probable reactions). Regarding self-absorption, that's pretty much how depression works, and it's not fun to be around, but it's even worse to be going through it. If people could bootstrap themselves out of it they would do so.


----------



## Sonata

Well, I think we can at least agree that it was a shame that there wasn't more education/discourse on mental illness in the thread anyway.

I thank you for your regard; I have been fortunate in that I have some wonderful support from my husband, family, and doctor. I will be seeing a therapist tomorrow; which I do not relish but I do need at the moment. So far I've been able to function at work.....though it's been a near thing lately hence the therapist and medicine. But in the long run, I think having gone through this will make me a better practitioner.


----------



## clavichorder

I struggle with this problem: people in third world countries have much more dire circumstances to deal with than I do, and the comparison causes me to feel guilty about having made such poor use out of my life thus far, yet I feel I've done the best I could have have done with a few bad choices here and there. Mental illness must be real, or else I'm just a worthless sack of ****.


----------



## Ingélou

You are certainly not worthless, clavichorder - you are a sensitive & thoughtful person. If you do the best you can in your circumstances, including your mental state, then you have no need to feel guilty. Very best wishes.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

I heard of a theory that there is more depression in developed countries than developing countries, for the simple reason that we can afford it, so to speak. People who are struggling to just survive don't have _time _to be depressed, their minds are focused on much more down-to-earth things. Doesn't mean they feel sad or hopeless, but it doesn't become a prolonged, chronic fixation. People who no longer truly struggle to survive have more time to think and abstract on life and the future, thus develop reasons to be depressed.


----------



## Sonata

Mental illness has been going on for centuries; this is nothing new. Mental illness was present in medieval times, in ancient times. There is extensive documentation of such. We also have much more synthetic products in developed countries; plastics, preservatives, hormones. this is likely a role played there too.

Depression is far from the only mental illness, I think the others often get forgotten in this discussion. Schizophrenia, autism, etc


----------



## mstar

Parasomnia is not a mental illness, I take it?


----------



## Itullian

I don't deal with loss well.
Whether friends or family or a pet.
It breaks my heart.


----------



## mstar

Itullian said:


> I don't deal with loss well.
> Whether friends or family or a pet.
> It breaks my heart.


Agreed, except for pet. I find the "loss" of people much too overwhelming to worry about animals as well....


----------



## Sonata

Itullian said:


> I don't deal with loss well.
> Whether friends or family or a pet.
> It breaks my heart.


All due respect, this is not a mental problem. This is grief, and grief is unfortunately and sadly part of the human condition.


----------



## tdc

clavichorder said:


> I struggle with this problem: people in third world countries have much more dire circumstances to deal with than I do, and the comparison causes me to feel guilty about having made such poor use out of my life thus far, yet I feel I've done the best I could have have done with a few bad choices here and there. Mental illness must be real, or else I'm just a worthless sack of ****.


An old acquaintance of mine did missionary work in third world countries and claimed people in those countries are generally much happier than people here. I think the idea that one should be happy because of whatever supposed ideal circumstances exist (they don't) in first world countries is a fallacy. So, no you are most certainly not a worthless sack of ****. You are someone living in crazy times doing the best you can.


----------



## mstar

Answering the OP: There is an old saying that goes something like this: if you are sane enough to ask....


----------



## mstar

PERHAPS... today I may have, and probably have, the temporary mental illness of ANNOYANCE AT THE STUPIDITY OF THE PERSONIFICATILN OF THIS IDIOTICALLY INGRAINED INTO MY MIND DATE, SO MUCH SO THAT I SUBCONSCIOUSLY CAPITALIZE IT AND TELL THE WORLD ABOUT MY ANNOYANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

(but after today it is gone.)


----------



## Vaneyes

mstar said:


> Agreed, except for pet. I find the "loss" of people much too overwhelming to worry about animals as well....


"Same to you, fella."

View attachment 27991


----------



## Vaneyes

Sonata said:


> *Mental illness has been going on for centuries*; this is nothing new. Mental illness was present in medieval times, in ancient times. There is extensive documentation of such. We also have much more synthetic products in developed countries; plastics, preservatives, hormones. this is likely a role played there too.
> 
> Depression is far from the only mental illness, I think the others often get forgotten in this discussion. Schizophrenia, autism, etc


It hasn't been *that long*, has it?

View attachment 27992


----------



## Vaneyes

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I heard of a theory that there is more depression in developed countries than *developing countries*, for the simple reason that we can afford it, so to speak. People who are struggling to just survive don't have _time _to be depressed, their minds are focused on much more down-to-earth things. Doesn't mean they feel sad or hopeless, but it doesn't become a prolonged, chronic fixation. People who no longer truly struggle to survive have more time to think and abstract on life and the future, thus develop reasons to be depressed.


And countries that will never develop. 

There aren't many cures these days, but Big Pharma eases the pain.


----------



## Vaneyes

Keep it up, folks, this thread is my soap opera feed at the moment.

"Jeez, there you go again." Love that Ukko utterance. And the preceding ref. to orange hair...THAT DID IT, Ronnie Raygun!

It's been a good day.


----------



## Katie

I've lost my marbles, which may or may not be germane to this thread. Of course, someone might have simply turned them in at the Lost n' Found./Katie


----------



## neoshredder

I think I do. I got anger issues. I'm not a good person to mess with. But I usually cool down after a few hours. Unfortunately, bad things could happen to change friendships before I cool down.


----------



## Sonata

Vaneyes said:


> And countries that will never develop.
> 
> There aren't many cures these days, but Big Pharma eases the pain.


Big Pharma is certainly overused in this country, though medication is a legitimate option for some.

Fortunately, the medical community is starting to open up to alternative treatments as well. A lot of evidence supports Mindfullness and meditation. Exercise can be very effective at alleviating depression or anxiety, and cognitive behavioral therapy as well. I'm a big proponent of complementary medicine both in psychiatry and general medicine .

Speaking of which I need to hit up the meditation thread again tomorrow.....


----------



## Larkenfield

My only mental problems are other people... and there are billions of them out there ready to say or do something disagreeable! PS: Sometimes they show up on this forum.


----------



## Captainnumber36

Yes, Schizo-Affective Disorder. I've gone through a rough period, but things should be better now!


----------



## JosefinaHW

Captainnumber36 said:


> Yes, Schizo-Affective Disorder. I've gone through a rough period, but things should be better now!


I am very sorry to hear that you have to struggle with this. I just hope you know you are never alone; there are millions of us who are united in this struggle every minute of every day. :kiss:


----------



## atsizat

I had depression. I had a drinking problem. I was thinking about commiting suicide in the last years. I've been sober for about 1 month and I try my best to stay away from alcohol. I haven't been quite happy with my life. I spent too much money in the last 2 year time on alcohol. I wasted a lot of money which was left to me from the death of my mother.

I've been in a relationship for 11 months but I am not quite sure if she is the right person for me. I've been living alone since the death of my mother. Living alone didn't do quite good for me. Just wasted too much money on alcohol. I broke a lot of phones with anger when drunk. I've been sober for about 1 month. I started working at Burger King 1 month ago but I am not quite happy with my job. It is very tiring. In the last weeks, I worked for 16 hours. I still can't forget it. I get paid for working for more hours but what importance does it have if I feel like a dead person after the job. For one and half years after the death of my mother had gone without working. I just wasted some of the money that was left to me from the death of my mother. My mother had money in her bank account. 75 percent of it was given to me ( her son) and 25 percent of it was given to my step father ( her husband) according to the laws in Turkey.

I wish to find a less tiring job than Burger King.


----------



## Merl

No, I don't have any mental issues but it doesn't take much to tip any of us over. I'm currently very stressed for a number of reasons (mainly work). I admire those that have come straight out and admitted they have some issues. It's an incredibly brave thing to do. Kudos.


----------



## JosefinaHW

atsizat said:


> I had depression. I had a drinking problem. I was thinking about commiting suicide in the last years. I've been sober for about 1 month and I try my best to stay away from alcohol. I haven't been quite happy with my life. I spent too much money in the last 2 year time on alcohol. I wasted a lot of money which was left to me from the death of my mother.
> 
> I've been in a relationship for 11 months but I am not quite sure if she is the right person for me. I've been living alone since the death of my mother. Living alone didn't do quite good for me. Just wasted too much money on alcohol. I broke a lot of phones with anger when drunk. I've been sober for about 1 month. I started working at burger king but I am not happy with job. It is very tiring. In the last weeks, I worked for 16 hours. I still can't forget it. I get paid for working for more hours but what importance does it have if I feel like a dead person after the job.


Huge bear hug, Atsizat!

I'm not a mental health professional, so I'm not qualified to make definitive treatment recommendations, etc.. I'm a fellow, long-term patient with my own struggles, but I have an excellent psychiatrist, therapist and family practice doctor. I hope you belong to an AA program and/or have a therapist or doctor who can help direct and support you. I apologize for my ignorance; I don't anything about the medical system in Turkey. Do you have access to a physician?

From my experience I can say a few things about your situation with confidence.

1. Judging yourself so negatively is not effective. You will just feel more guilt and frustration which will then make your more anxious, depressed and exhausted! FACT. Remember emotional struggles are far more exhausting and draining then physical activity. I think it is beyond heroic that you have been able to work any hours a week, much less sixteen hours.

Focus on the positives and achievements. I know that is easier said than done. In the beginning you might have to remind yourself every five minutes to think positive. Instead of thinking about the money you spent, think of what you are going to do today to feel better. Remind yourself that if you work a few hours a week that is a major achievement. Remind yourself that you can get out of bed, get dressed, walk and stand a few hours a day. Sounds like nothing, but it really is an extraordinary thing. Keep reminding yourself of what you can do. Seriously, little by little you will begin to feel better. That's a start.

Grief is also an incredibly exhausting thing. There is no quick and easy way out of it if you already deal with depression and other issues. One thing I can suggest to start with. When you think of your mother, instead of focusing on the inheritance you spent in a way that you don't like, flip the thought around. Smile in your head and thank your mother for giving you the resources to get you through this terrible time. We all have coping mechanisms and a lot of people turn to alcohol or some other substance. It got you through for a time. Now you are going to use other things to get you through.

I decided to write this to you in public because I am not a mental health professional, so others can join in with their thoughts, but I'm at the other end of PM if you prefer to talk that way.

:kiss:

Your life and your feelings about yourself WILL get better. Little tiny steps.


----------



## philoctetes

Took me a long time to realize I am not a good drinker, I'm a lot more fun when sober with a clear head. Wanting to be the better person makes me avoid alcohol now. But at one time I was locked in the feedback loop of depression and drinking.

Now it's just people that depress me. and my own mistakes, which seem to never end. Curse of perfectionism.


----------



## atsizat

JosefinaHW said:


> Huge bear hug, Atsizat!
> 
> I'm not a mental health professional, so I'm not qualified to make definitive treatment recommendations, etc.. I'm a fellow, long-term patient with my own struggles, but I have an excellent psychiatrist, therapist and family practice doctor. I hope you belong to an AA program and/or have a therapist or doctor who can help direct and support you. I apologize for my ignorance; I don't anything about the medical system in Turkey. Do you have access to a physician?
> 
> From my experience I can say a few things about your situation with confidence.
> 
> 1. Judging yourself so negatively is not effective. You will just feel more guilt and frustration which will then make your more anxious, depressed and exhausted! FACT. Remember emotional struggles are far more exhausting and draining then physical activity. I think it is beyond heroic that you have been able to work any hours a week, much less sixteen hours.
> 
> Focus on the positives and achievements. I know that is easier said than done. In the beginning you might have to remind yourself every five minutes to think positive. Instead of thinking about the money you spent, think of what you are going to do today to feel better. Remind yourself that if you work a few hours a week that is a major achievement. Remind yourself that you can get out of bed, get dressed, walk and stand a few hours a day. Sounds like nothing, but it really is an extraordinary thing. Keep reminding yourself of what you can do. Seriously, little by little you will begin to feel better. That's a start.
> 
> Grief is also an incredibly exhausting thing. There is no quick and easy way out of it if you already deal with depression and other issues. One thing I can suggest to start with. When you think of your mother, instead of focusing on the inheritance you spent in a way that you don't like, flip the thought around. Smile in your head and thank your mother for giving you the resources to get you through this terrible time. We all have coping mechanisms and a lot of people turn to alcohol or some other substance. It got you through for a time. Now you are going to use other things to get you through.
> 
> I decided to write this to you in public because I am not a mental health professional, so others can join in with their thoughts, but I'm at the other end of PM if you prefer to talk that way.
> 
> :kiss:
> 
> Your life and your feelings about yourself WILL get better. Little tiny steps.


I went to the psychiatrist but it didn't help. I drank with the drugs that doctor gave me after 1 week.


----------



## JosefinaHW

atsizat said:


> I went to the psychiatrist but it didn't help. I drank with the drugs that doctor gave me after 1 week.


Most people don't find the right psychiatrist or therapist for them the first time, but even so, did your psych check your thyroid levels and other blood work to rule out more basic problems? As far as I am aware there isn't another drug that is going to stop you from drinking. There are some relatively benign drugs that can help you lower your anxiety level if it is just too off the scale right now. Did you talk to psych about buspirone? Also, the first anti-depressant drug people try don't always work. You may need a stronger dose, lower dose, a different drug, multiple anti-depressants. You have to work with a psych for quite a while to get the right balance for your body--this is not a one, two, three visit solution.

Another really important thing is to get a therapist. A good one (and it can take a few tries to get the right one for you) can teach you tools and other coping mechanisms to handle depression, negative thinking, guilt.

This is a journey of lots of little steps. A good therapist and psych will remind you of this. They will help you set realistic mini-goals.

I don't struggle with alcoholism, but have you ever attended an AA Program?


----------



## JosefinaHW

This may all sound overwhelming right now. Why don't you start by making another apptmt with the psych and join AA.


----------



## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

I have Asperger's syndrome and OCD.


----------



## Pat Fairlea

Just good old depression, on and off for years. Never quite bad enough to be hospitalised, though touch and go in one episode. 
Anyway...much better these days as a result of (a) retirement and consequent stress reduction and (b) daily medication. 
And yes, I phase out the medication periodically to check whether it's really necessary. It typically takes 6-8 weeks for the first hints that the darkness is creeping back. Mrs Pat does a good job of monitoring.
So that's my advice for chronic depressive illness. Treat it as you would any other condition such diabetes or angina and manage your life accordingly. Give medication a fair trial: it might work for you. And have a spouse/partner/best friend whom you know will tell you promptly and bluntly if you begin the slide into misery.

Oh yes. Listening to plenty of Ibert and Gottschalk helps!


----------



## Couchie

Captainnumber36 said:


> Yes, Schizo-Affective Disorder. I've gone through a rough period, but things should be better now!


What drugs are you taking? I was recently diagnosed with an "unspecified psychosis" after a mental breakdown, but possibly I'm early in the schizo-affective and schizophrenia realm of things. They want to wait a year or two before making any long-term diagnosis. Finding the right medication though has been a struggle. Either the side-effects are awful or the hallucinations pierce through.


----------



## sharkeysnight

I've never been able to visit a psychiatrist, but I did do a few rounds of CBT a couple of years ago that helped me manage my anxiety and depression. What I actually "have", I don't know, but I do feel that mental health checkups should be just as much a part of our lives as dental and bodily. Your thought patterns are physical, after all, and if you're developing negative and unhealthy patterns, they become the literal mechanisms that drive you. A common refrain is something like "I don't need therapy, I'm not crazy", which is like saying you don't need to have your annual GP visit because your legs haven't fallen off.


----------



## atsizat

I feel life is meaningless.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

atsizat said:


> I feel life is meaningless.


If I forced you to explain why, could you?


----------



## Luchesi

sharkeysnight said:


> I've never been able to visit a psychiatrist, but I did do a few rounds of CBT a couple of years ago that helped me manage my anxiety and depression. What I actually "have", I don't know, but I do feel that mental health checkups should be just as much a part of our lives as dental and bodily. Your thought patterns are physical, after all, and if you're developing negative and unhealthy patterns, they become the literal mechanisms that drive you. A common refrain is something like "I don't need therapy, I'm not crazy", which is like saying you don't need to have your annual GP visit because your legs haven't fallen off.


According to WebMD
Researchers also have found that if you carry certain types of specific genes that affect brain chemistry, marijuana use can raise the chance you'll have schizophrenia. One of those genes is called AKT1. Another is called COMT.


----------



## KenOC




----------



## Jacck

Luchesi said:


> According to WebMD
> Researchers also have found that if you carry certain types of specific genes that affect brain chemistry, marijuana use can raise the chance you'll have schizophrenia. One of those genes is called AKT1. Another is called COMT.


it certainly can trigger a psychotic attack, mostly in young people, I have never seen it in an older person above 30. So the question is: would these people get the schizophrenia even without smoking cannabis, was the cannabis simply a cathalyst to trigger it? Hard to know, but it is possible.


----------



## Room2201974

PSA - Public Service Announcement: If you've had issues with on again off again depression and anti-depressants or counseling haven't helped.....get your TSH checked. Hashimoto's Disease is one of the most misdiagnosed illnesses in the crappy genetic playbook.


----------



## Guest

Extract from an episode of "Blackadder" feigning mental illness to avoid being sent "over the top" in a British Army trench in WW1, possibly at Passchendaele, "Third Battle of Ypres" 1917

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8767C75FBC15C37654168767C75FBC15C37&FORM=VIRE


----------



## Luchesi

Jacck said:


> it certainly can trigger a psychotic attack, mostly in young people, I have never seen it in an older person above 30. So the question is: would these people get the schizophrenia even without smoking cannabis, was the cannabis simply a cathalyst to trigger it? Hard to know, but it is possible.


In my experience, I will feel a loss of control and then a recognition of being out of my normal mind and thinking patterns, and after that I'm vulnerable to a mild psychosis (fears and chaos), -- after that who knows? The biochemistry of addictive behavior is interesting. I was searching for the increase in the deltafosB problem with cannabis use.

"Biochemically modified isoforms of ΔFosB (molecular mass 35-37 kDa) accumulate within the same brain regions after repeated drug exposure, whereas all other Fos family members show tolerance (that is, reduced induction compared with initial drug exposures). Such accumulation of ΔFosB has been observed for cocaine, morphine, amphetamine, alcohol, nicotine, and phencyclidine (11, 14-18). There is some evidence that this induction is selective for the dynorphin/substance P-containing subset of medium spiny neurons located in these brain regions (15, 17), although more work is needed to establish this with certainty. The 35- to 37-kDa isoforms of ΔFosB dimerize predominantly with JunD to form an active and long-lasting AP-1 complex within these brain regions (19, 20). These ΔFosB isoforms accumulate with chronic drug exposure because of their extraordinarily long half-lives (21), and therefore persist in the neurons for at least several weeks after cessation of drug administration. It is interesting to note that these ΔFosB isoforms are highly stable products of an immediate early gene (fosB). The stability of the ΔFosB isoforms provides a novel molecular mechanism by which drug-induced changes in gene expression can persist despite relatively long periods of drug withdrawal.
Although the nucleus accumbens plays a critical role in the rewarding effects of drugs of abuse, it is believed to function normally by regulating responses to natural reinforcers, such as food, drink, sex, and social interactions (12, 13). As a result, there is considerable interest in a possible role of this brain region in other compulsive behaviors (e.g., pathological overeating, gambling, exercise, etc.). For this reason, we examined whether ΔFosB is regulated in an animal model of compulsive running. Indeed, the stable 35- to 37-kDa isoforms of ΔFosB are induced selectively within the nucleus accumbens in rats that show compulsive running behavior."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC58680/


----------



## Bulldog

I didn't have a mental problem until I read the 12 pages of this thread.


----------



## Couchie

atsizat said:


> I feel life is meaningless.


Life is not meaningless. *Life is a mystery*.

The purpose of life is to live. It is life itself - the consciousness - that ascribes meaning to things. Nothing has or can have any meaning until it is experienced by living, conscious, entities, and _given meaning_. Life is the production of meaning. The meaning of life is to give meaning to life.

Asking what the meaning of life is... is equivalent to asking what the meaning of meaning is. Such a question is indeed meaningless.

The vast majority of the population is depressed because they think they must solve the mystery as to what to what the meaning of life is. They either fail to do so to their satisfaction, or they take up some belief in "the answer" while still being unhappy because of the existence of competing "answers" causing them doubt.

The wise answer to what the meaning of life is: "_I have no idea_".

The wisest realize the only meaninglessness is the question itself and there is nothing to be troubled by.


----------

