# To Hell with Young People



## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

http://www.classicstoday.com/editorial-to-hell-with-young-people/

What does everyone think?

Personally I find this short sighted, but then I'm 28 so what do I know?


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

I belong to the Johannesburg Musical Society. It is a grey haired membership. I wish we had lots of young people. Sadly we have very, very few.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

He's got a point about the free time issue, at least.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

I blame all those avant-garde composers who don't care, as well as all those teenagers who don't care.





P.S. I'm a 17 year old avant-garde composer who doesn't care.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Classical music will survive, even if the major record companies bite the dust. Just like Bach's music survived, kept alive by musicians in the know, then it was revived by them long after his death. Some things go into hybernation and are then ripe for revival.

& I think that Mr. Hurwitz makes some assumptions about young people which may well be based less on reality and more on the _generation gap _factor.

I agree with him on some things, but I think he's got various agendas in mind in writing this which he's not willing to disclose.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't buy the free time argument. I'm 22, work 10-11 hours per day, starting my life, dating, the whole works, and I find time to take in entire Wagner operas.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I hate young people for the most part too so it's all good.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Mr. Hurwitty is also forgetting about this most powerful and most glorious tool that we now have, called the INTERWEBZ. Of course, many many more young people use it for a quick wank rather than a spiritual journey through music, but don't worry, because our numbers are definitely increasing. All thanks to this profound tool.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I hate this thread tbh. Young people or Old people. It doesn't matter. It's the person that counts.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I don't trust anybody who spells "grey" with an A.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I imagine the thread title is suggesting new lyrics for Stryper's classic "To Hell with the Devil."


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> I don't trust anybody who spells "grey" with an A.


I don't trust anyone who spells "grǣġ" with either an A or an E but not both.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

28? you are young people!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, now I am a graying consumer where before I was one of those very young people who 'just bought a ticket' and went to symphonies and recitals - on my own, in my middle school years and ever since.

I fully agree with his take on the PC pandering, and the near-comic and egregious mentality of publicists 'luring' young people to cultural events with all sorts of completely mistaken as 'hip' strategies - a complete waste of time, money and an utter failure: regardless of education, level of articulation, just about anyone has an instinctual sense of when someone is talking down to them 

Hear something you like? Click on iTunes and the whole symphony is yours for $3.oo - , or $o.99 per movement. Fact is, classical music, in one way shape and form or another, is in more hands (and ears) with the population at large than it ever was in the past.

Other than that, the other gray-hairs on the board, despairing of 'where are the younger audience members,' -- well, although the young will spend far more than the price of a premium seat for the symphony on a pop concert where the chance to see the performers is only possible by watching a speck on the stage and an enlarged video spread across a grid of large-screen plasma video, there is a simple answer to get them into the symphony hall for the live experience. "It is the price, dummies." 

If not subscription discounts, simply announcing that all single ticket sales for any event will be offered at XX% discount to, say, those under age 27 (arbitrary number) would take care of that.

I think everybody needs to get out more often, and out of their plugged-in, isolationist earpod / board room of the ghetto of one age and income demographic -- and circulate with the population at large, especially other generations. Both gray-beard board members and younger generations are more and more 'out of touch' with much else than their limited matrices.

The article is fun, and a bit funny.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Other than that, the other gray-hairs on the board, despairing of 'where are the younger audience members,' -- well, although the young will spend far more than the price of a premium seat for the symphony on a pop concert where the chance to see the performers is only possible by watching a speck on the stage and an enlarged video spread across a grid of large-screen plasma video, there is a simple answer to get them into the symphony hall for the live experience. "It is the price, dummies."
> 
> If not subscription discounts, simply announcing that all single ticket sales for any event will be offered at XX% discount to, say, those under age 27 (arbitrary number) would take care of that.


The Johannesburg Musical Society tickets to school pupils and university students under 25 is R25 which is about US$4. For those particular concerts it is not the price. Last night the pianist was Pallavi Mahinhara who is only 24 herself. The marketing appears to be faulty.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Unless the writer is hoping for profits today and death tomorrow, his argument rests on the idea that people naturally become more interested in classical music as they age. I don't have any statistics, but I imagine it's people brought up with good music education and a variety of musical experiences while young who are most likely to develop those tastes.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> I don't trust anybody who spells "grey" with an A.


'gray' is Standard American. Grey is Zane's surname.

I don't hate young folks, I do think they are full of themselves. On the other hand, old folks are often full of ****, due to malfunctioning bowels.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

David Hurwitz is always entertaining. 

I kind of see his point about age and life experience leading someone toward finer things. At least it looks good on paper. I'm not sure how it translates into real life. 

It seems like there will always be a segment of society which is attracted to the arts, regardless of age. I have always liked marking up scores with commentaries and annotating poems and novels. But I don't know too many others like that. Most people my age like rock music, popular movies, and sports, and I'm not expecting them to have an epiphany that they need to learn something complicated to make their lives fulfilling.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I think The Shredder hit it right on the head. It is entirely up to each individual. I wasn't groomed to be a classical music aficionado in any way whatsoever, I just liked it and so explored it on my own. Musically I have always preferred playing with older folks; at least a decade older than I. That is not to say, however, that I won't completely embrace the coming of a kid who not only can wail but has a good approach and idea about how to play music. It's only that from experience you know that's not going to be common but it is always a pleasant possibility.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> 'gray' is Standard American. Grey is Zane's surname.
> 
> I don't hate young folks, I do think they are full of themselves. On the other hand, old folks are often full of ****, due to malfunctioning bowels.


I'm aware of this. I don't trust standard Americans!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Young people are raised and educated by older people, so blaming them for anything is a crock. Besides, I can enjoy my music and not worry about being an evangelist for classical or any other style of music.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

It's my experience that at least 80% of concert attendees are over roughly 60, and the percentage might be as high as 90%. That is even true at the main venue I attend which is on a university campus. Would others say those percentages are similar where they attend concerts? 

It would be interesting to know if there were a similarly high percentage of older people attending concerts 30-40 years ago (and 60-80 years ago). If so, obviously increased age, more time, more money, etc. could explain concert attendance. Does anyone know if the age distribution at concerts has remained roughly the same over time?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Here's an observation. A couple of years ago I attended a Zappa Plays Zappa concert. I was encouraged to see many 30-40 something parents there with their young children. The last chamber music concert I attended was full of 70-80 year olds, and none of them brought their grandchildren along. 

Gramophone Magazine appealing to younger people will do nothing. Kids with a few dollars in their pockets aren't going blow 10 bucks on a classical music magazine.

My parents know next to nothing about music, but they had the good sense to make sure I received a well rounded education. I was encouraged to take up a musical instrument and play in the school band. This afforded me opportunities including field trips to Saratoga to hear the Philadelphia orchestra.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I am 24 and I think the author needs to go to hell himself, together with the idea that in order to appreciate classical music one needs "a taste for the finer things in life". Me and other young people I know who appreciate classical, are not some friggin' aristocrats eating off silver plate and drinking 100-year old wine in their castles. I can hardly tell red wine from white!


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Interesting article, it makes me feel less bad about the fact that I've met only one or two people my age IRL who listen to classical music regularly (even within the university's music department). I'm not sure where he gets the idea that young people have less free time than old people, though. The average college student takes about 15 credits a semester, which is 15 hours of classes per week... add in maybe 6-7 hours a week of homework (if they're a good student), and you've still only got a part-time occupation. Unless he's comparing them to retirees, of course.

I should also add the fact that for most people I've met, "homework" involves doing nothing for weeks at a time and then cramming the night before exams. Really, college kids have TOO much free time if you ask me.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The great thing about youth is that it's one of the few diseases that is cured simply by the passage of time.

The article is interesting, but I don't think it really hits the point of how kids learn about old music.

When I was a kid, we had about five or six stations on VHF TV to watch. ABC, CBS, NBC and a couple of locals. They showed the big shows... Beverly Hillbillies, Walter Cronkite, etc. Then there were the UHF stations.

The UHF stations had almost zero budget, so they showed whatever was cheap... Three Stooges, cartoons, old movies, Our Gang, etc. This was all stuff that the VHF stations weren't interested in because it was "too old". But as a kid, I didn't care. I watched it anyway, and pretty soon I was a fan of Universal horror movies, the Marx Bros, film noir, Jimmy Cagney and a whole boatload of stuff created at least three or four decades before I was born. The stuff was just shoveled to me... good, bad and indifferent... and I sorted out what I liked.

If music labels wanted to interest new listeners in back catalog, they'd do what the old UHF stations did... just shovel the stuff out cheap. They shouldn't create a streaming audio service or itunes store for Lady Gaga. They should create it for old back catalog stuff from the sixties and seventies. Sell the stuff for pennies and kids will stock up on it and start listening to it.

The labels are doing one thing really smart... all these bargain boxes. Kids who are looking for an entry point to classical music see these boxes with CDs at a couple of bucks a disk, packed to the gills with mainstream core repetoire and they gobble it up. Will they buy a brand new recording of Beethoven's seventh? Maybe, but there are enough good alternatives out there that they don't have to.

I laugh when I look back on where I was first exposed to classical music... it was on UHF TV in soundtracks to old Bugs Bunny cartoons. I think that if the labels made back catalog easily and cheaply available, it would create its own demand. Trying to market to what people want without turning them on to anything different just ends up narrowing the market down to a pinpoint of cultural ignorance.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Couchie said:


> I don't buy the free time argument. I'm 22, work 10-11 hours per day, starting my life, dating, the whole works, and I find time to take in entire Wagner operas.


Yes, but you're a bunchie, not a mortal. And we don't believe you about the dating.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Pretty sure most diseases are cured with the passage of time, bigshot. Glad you aren't a doctor.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The need to treat them becomes unnecessary, but they aren't necessarily cured!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

"Trust you? You know nothing."

View attachment 4195


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

bigshot said:


> The need to treat them becomes unnecessary, but they aren't necessarily cured!


I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

I agree though about your point of putting out material to expose the younger generation to. How did I get into classical music? Well, it was when we watched Amadeus in my third grade classroom. I from there listened to classical radio, but I didn't get too seriously into it until I was 13/14 and got access to the internet, but I feel like that planted the seed. It would be great if there was a great presence of even art pop music.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

"The worst thing about the young generation is that I'm no longer a part of it." - Albert Einstein


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> I should also add the fact that for most people I've met, "homework" involves doing nothing for weeks at a time and then cramming the night before exams. Really, college kids have TOO much free time if you ask me.


Definitely! It's ridiculous how people get to enjoy their lives. They need more stress in their handful of decades on earth.

Anyway. The only people who should care about how to market classical are the people whose wallets it concerns.

I do know one thing: the author's talk about "having to appreciate the finer things in life" is the exact kind of coded bourgeois nonsense that gives classical music the image of a stuffy, phony, elitist, materialistic relic to the public. I think any good music is alive no matter what, regardless of class/age/how many times you voted republican.


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## Oliver (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm 15 and love Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev... and I've been to many classical concerts(last one was in feb and going to three during april-may) 
My also 15 year old friend likes classical, and if you look on most classical music videos on Youtube, you get a never ending amount of comments from kids boasting about their brilliant taste in music. The guy who wrote that article needs to get out more. Young people make up a much larger proportion of classical listeners than most people think. It's a really narrow and stereotypical view to think only old people listen to classical music.. come on.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm 18, love classic music and certainly don't consider myself able to appreciate the finer things in life haha.

I don't think classical music itself is in a bad shape, and I wouldn't be surprised if i was told that in our days there are more classical music lovers than ever in the history. 
But I'm convinced that the problem is education - ie. less proper schooling and more garbage everywhere. Young people doesn't need to age and to have more money and a lot of free time to learn to appreciate classical music. 

They need to stop being sheeps ! They need to learn to know and appreciate abnormal things, they need to like obscure groups of music, they need to stop being fed by MTV (at best), Apple, the latest trends, etc.
I don't think the problem is the classical music itself. If you listen to complex progressive rock or atonal free jazz, there are some odds you'll be able to begin to discover classic music by yourself. It's about having a opened-mind, wanting to learn. And I don't think today's youth is encouraged to do that, at all !


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## Dadof5 (Mar 25, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> It would be interesting to know if there were a similarly high percentage of older people attending concerts 30-40 years ago (and 60-80 years ago). If so, obviously increased age, more time, more money, etc. could explain concert attendance. Does anyone know if the age distribution at concerts has remained roughly the same over time?


Here is an article that that describes studies about the ages of audiences over the last 75 years:
age_of_the_audience

The information in that blog article shows that audiences have been getting progressively older over that time, the median age in 1937 was around 30. So I believe the Hurwitz is incorrect to disregard the fact that audiences are overwhelmingly gr[e,a]y haired today. This is definitely a serious problem that shouldn't be ignored.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

regressivetransphobe said:


> I do know one thing: the author's talk about "having to appreciate the finer things in life" is the exact kind of coded bourgeois nonsense that gives classical music the image of a stuffy, phony, elitist, materialistic relic to the public. I think any good music is alive no matter what, regardless of class/age/how many times you voted republican.


His CD reviews aren't really like that. Well, maybe they are, sometimes, but he also often shoots down pretension, and just says what he likes, and tells you in a few words how the music sounds. Personally, I find him to be particularly good on the subject of 20th century composers--not just the obvious ones, but also ones I would probably never have heard of, if it weren't for him.


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## Sofronitsky (Jun 12, 2011)

GeneralOJB said:


> I'm 15 and love Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev... and I've been to many classical concerts(last one was in feb and going to three during april-may)
> My also 15 year old friend likes classical, and if you look on most classical music videos on Youtube, you get a never ending amount of comments from kids boasting about their brilliant taste in music. The guy who wrote that article needs to get out more. Young people make up a much larger proportion of classical listeners than most people think. It's a really narrow and stereotypical view to think only old people listen to classical music.. come on.


As a 16 yr old who _doesn't_ brag about the fact that I love classical music, let me say that those youtube comments are seriously the most annoying ones I come across.

Seeing "I'm only 13 and I listen to Prokofiev!" makes me want to gouge my eyes out. You don't get a reward for your taste in music... Likewise it's just as annoying to watch a video of Oistrakh performing Shostakovich's 1st Violin Concerto and see a comment of "I'm only 14 and I'm playing this!!"

It's just pointless boasting. If you love and play music, great. No one is handing out blue ribbons for it, though, and your love of music should be all the reward you need.


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't believe it's older people who like classical music. For example, my grandmother may insist she likes classical music but if I have her listen to Bach, he is _monotonous_, Schumann _is not melodic_, and so are many others. In the end, all she likes to listen to is some Chopin waltzes, some Mozart and some Vivaldi. What I want to say is that age alone does not make someone listen to classical music. Unless one makes an effort and a "good" introduction to classical music, he will not start to like it automatically.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Here in y'UK I have noticed a fair mixture of all ages at most Classical Concerts or Opera's No one can _make_ someone old or young like Classic music , but we can blast it out at terminal volumes in the hope some of it sinks into their daft heads!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I don't know a single old person who likes classical music. It really is sort of a myth. In my experiences, most people keep the same music taste that they had at some point in their 20s. It isn't just young people who listen to popular music. Ridiculous notion. I also think the comments on youtube are rather annoying. Also, just because the audience at the symphony might be old, that doesn't mean that the listeners are old as well.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Hell is for Children.


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## macgeek2005 (Apr 1, 2006)

He's just dead wrong in his entire overarching point.

The average age of the classical music audience in America pre-1960s was somewhere in the mid 30s. Concert seasons at places like the Philadelphia orchestra were sold out by subscription. Now they toss off $10 rush tickets because there are so many empty seats. And the average age of classical music goers steadily got older and older starting in the 1960s, until now it's around 60 or 65.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

macgeek2005 said:


> He's just dead wrong in his entire overarching point.
> 
> The average age of the classical music audience in America pre-1960s was somewhere in the mid 30s. Concert seasons at places like the Philadelphia orchestra were sold out by subscription. Now they toss off $10 rush tickets because there are so many empty seats. And the average age of classical music goers steadily got older and older starting in the 1960s, until now it's around 60 or 65.


We could solve that problem instantly if we just let a few million more young Chinese people immigrate.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I think it's anxiety over their future which drives many young people to shallowness. I feel great empathy for them, I think they see that 'things fall apart; the centre cannot hold'. My daughter graduates HS next month with a laid-back, non-grade grubbing 4.0, she is an awesome reader, she has activist qualities. She feels the world shrinking. She's started watching World News, she recycles, she supported a tagged whale of some species named 'Colt' when she was in grade school, she frets over the plight of the Panda and also of rain forests, and get this...she hates to shop and she saves her money! She gives me hope.


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## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

NightHawk said:


> I think it's anxiety over their future which drives many young people to shallowness. I feel great empathy for them, I think they see that 'things fall apart; the centre cannot hold'. My daughter graduates HS next month with a laid-back, non-grade grubbing 4.0, she is an awesome reader, she has activist qualities. She feels the world shrinking. She's started watching World News, she recycles, she supported a tagged whale of some species named 'Colt' when she was in grade school, she frets over the plight of the Panda and also of rain forests, and get this...she hates to shop and she saves her money! She gives me hope.


Can I marry her, sir?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

NightHawk said:


> [...]
> She gives me hope.


Hey, your daughter would give me hope too, if I had lost it. ...can her parents claim any credit?


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## AlexD (Nov 6, 2011)

The article is dumb. Every other industry tries to get the young 'uns in, because if they don't get into the habit of doing something when they're young, they never will. Football clubs in the UK usually give children very generous discounts because they know that if they enjoy going to the match when they're ten, they'll pay for a ticket when they're twenty. If they've never been to a match by the time they're 21, then they are very unlikely to go to a match.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't think it's right to blame young people for the relative lack of popularity of classical music. Even if it's (in most cases) not classical music, many young people are at least interested in music. Many people as they grow older gradually stop listening to music altogether. Of course it's always wrong to generalize, but if we do I find the apathy from 'older people' a bigger problem than the (real or so-called) 'bad taste' from youngsters.

Some argue that the sheep-like mentality of youngsters (and even grown ups) is part of the problem. Peer pressure, the need that people feel to get the approval of whatever group they belong to, or like to belong to. There something to this, no doubt about it. When everyone around you is going nuts over the latest release of Madonna I can imagine that you're not eager to brag about your collection of Prokofiev or Handel. 

That works both ways though. If you like, say, Abba you're unlikely to talk about it much on a forum like this one. In that regard many classical music lovers are also sheep. The're just sheep from a different flock. Besides lots of classical music I also listen to lots of non-classical music - including some that would probably raise eyebrows among some members here (don't worry, I also like 'TC approved' genres like jazz or prog-rock ). Just the other day I listened to Lily Allen's first album. A POP album. Witty lyrics, a bit naughty, great tunes, puts a smile on my face.  What's there not to love?


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

jhar26 said:


> If you like, say, Abba you're unlikely to talk about it much on a forum like this one.


I promise to talk about Abba. I'm attending an Abba tribute show on Freaky Friday (Friday 13th April).  Tonight is a Tina Turner Tribute by Rebecca O' Conner.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

On the subject of getting young people, and probably especially children in to classical music; does anyone remember Disney's Fantasia?

I had an idea for a series of variable-in-length TV animations set to various pieces of classical music. Think of it as a modern day Fantasia but as a TV series with each episode focusing on a single piece in full. I'd love to take an idea like this to the BBC or something, but I don't know how willing they'd be to agree to the hugely variable time slot, i.e.: one week could be Bartók's Miraculous Mandarin @ 30 mins while the next could be Mahler's 3rd @ 1 hour and 30 mins, and I would not be prepared to have the music edited or shortened for the sake of scheduling. One possible way around this could be to schedule only pieces of an hour or less in length and compile various pieces per episode based on the length, so with an hour long piece like the aforementioned Mahler, you'd only have that one piece, but you could probably make a double feature of, say, the Rite of Spring and the Miraculous Mandarin, or a triple feature of three 20 minute pieces and so on. I'd like to try my best to avoid taking individual movements of pieces, though.

I got the idea mainly from a Zappa interview where he said that it is possible to make any kind of music enter the social consciousness by associating it with identifiable images, and gives Kubrick's 2001 as a major example of this. I think, with classical music mostly being restricted to radio play only, the younger people who are more accustom to images, words and sound than any generation before them are being excluded. Of course they're going to think classical music is for "****" if they're exposed to it through such dull means as school and people like Simon Russell Beale (of BBC 4's hit and miss series "Symphony") practically having an orgasm over Mozart. Kids like to be entertained, and if you give them something entertaining to catch their attention right away, then the music will naturally follow, and this could be with anything from Bach to Stockhausen and beyond.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> I don't know a single old person who likes classical music. It really is sort of a myth. In my experiences, most people keep the same music taste that they had at some point in their 20s. It isn't just young people who listen to popular music. Ridiculous notion. I also think the comments on youtube are rather annoying. Also, just because the audience at the symphony might be old, that doesn't mean that the listeners are old as well.


Well, first, meet an old person who likes classical music. That said, your first two sentences are rather contradictory since many older people (and there are a few) who like classical music also liked it in their twenties. Why? Because, when we went to school, classical music was taught as a listening, appreciating and interpreting skill. Atop that, orchestra and band (optional participation) played all varieties of music - including plenty of classical. How many schools still have regular music classes like we had? How many schools have any kind of art or music after kindergarten and first grade today?


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Dimboukas said:


> I don't believe it's older people who like classical music. For example, my grandmother may insist she likes classical music but if I have her listen to Bach, he is _monotonous_, Schumann _is not melodic_, and so are many others. In the end, all she likes to listen to is some Chopin waltzes, some Mozart and some Vivaldi. What I want to say is that age alone does not make someone listen to classical music. Unless one makes an effort and a "good" introduction to classical music, he will not start to like it automatically.


What is wrong with that? Is it not fact that all professional musicians in the classical music field or any other like some composers and not other composers? She picks the composers she likes. You pick the composers you like. And, sometimes, it isn't even a question of liking a composer. It is a question of what you feel like listening to at a certain time. I assume we are talking about listening, not creating?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> I had an idea for a series of variable-in-length TV animations set to various pieces of classical music. Think of it as a modern day Fantasia but as a TV series with each episode focusing on a single piece in full. I'd love to take an idea like this to the BBC or something, but I don't know how willing they'd be to agree to the hugely variable time slot, i.e.: one week could be Bartók's Miraculous Mandarin @ 30 mins while the next could be Mahler's 3rd @ 1 hour and 30 mins, and I would not be prepared to have the music edited or shortened for the sake of scheduling. One possible way around this could be to schedule only pieces of an hour or less in length and compile various pieces per episode based on the length, so with an hour long piece like the aforementioned Mahler, you'd only have that one piece, but you could probably make a double feature of, say, the Rite of Spring and the Miraculous Mandarin, or a triple feature of three 20 minute pieces and so on. I'd like to try my best to avoid taking individual movements of pieces, though.


The old Looney Tunes Cartoons often featured classical music prominently in the cartoons. The famous _Rabbit of Seville_ and _Kill the Wabbit_ sung to _Ride of the Valkyries_ are wonderful. Your idea could work if it were not too expensive to get gripping visuals to go with the music.

Video games seems to be the best possibility for getting youth to listen and enjoy classical music.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

^The problem then is creating an interactive experience that will adequately reflect the typically shifting moods of a piece of classical music. A very tough job to do without creating a game that basically takes you by the hand and leads you through quick time events, and who wants to play through nothing but big sequences of QTEs? You could make an argument for Heavy Rain, which was QTE heavy, but that had some level of freedom and had a fairly solid story behind it.

Presenting an entertaining film that is focusing entirely on music is difficult, but it's worth the effort to create new non-formulaic programming if it means the audience can escape the same old doldrums of medical drama>crime drama>really bad sitcom>slightly more "adult" medical drama>slightly more violent crime drama.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> ^The problem then is creating an interactive experience that will adequately reflect the typically shifting moods of a piece of classical music. A very tough job to do without creating a game that basically takes you by the hand and leads you through quick time events, and who wants to play through nothing but big sequences of QTEs? You could make an argument for Heavy Rain, which was QTE heavy, but that had some level of freedom and had a fairly solid story behind it.
> 
> Presenting an entertaining film that is focusing entirely on music is difficult, but it's worth the effort to create new non-formulaic programming if it means the audience can escape the same old doldrums of medical drama>crime drama>really bad sitcom>slightly more "adult" medical drama>slightly more violent crime drama.


When that happens, I'll buy a television set, maybe. Safe promise because it isn't going to happen. Maybe in Britain where you have many stations dedicated to specific types of programming. Not here. We no longer even have a classical music radio station. Many cities do but not ours.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I work in anmation. It's a VERY expenive medium. It's also difficult to sustain long spans of time without a lot of variety. There is a very good reason why Disney edited the pieces in Fantasia with running times over 15 minutes or so.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I never said my ideas would be easy to realise, just that they were good.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Hazel said:


> Well, first, meet an old person who likes classical music. That said, your first two sentences are rather contradictory since many older people (and there are a few) who like classical music also liked it in their twenties. Why? Because, when we went to school, classical music was taught as a listening, appreciating and interpreting skill. Atop that, orchestra and band (optional participation) played all varieties of music - including plenty of classical. How many schools still have regular music classes like we had? How many schools have any kind of art or music after kindergarten and first grade today?


You got the wrong impression from my post. On my first sentence I was merely stating that I do not know a single old person who like classical music, and when I say this I mean in person. This isn't stating that no old people like classical music, of course. The second one was sort of a truncated thought, so I can see why you would get the wrong impression. I merely meant that the idea that as people grow older they grow into more "mature" tastes and the like, and end up liking jazz or classical, etc is mythical. It simply doesn't appear to be true.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I do agree with Zappa when he says you can make something enter social consciousness by relating it to identifiable images... but what is social consciousness exactly? They become aware, yes, and I know most people would know the Richard Strauss piece if I began playing it, but majority of them would have never actually gone out of their way to listen to it, nor could they tell me more about it outside of it being that "song they play in commercials for epic moments!". I mean... I've known people who try to identify it and they swear it is by Johann Strauss II. This seems to be more than just an isolated thing as well, because if you take a trip to Johann Strauss' last.fm page you will see his most played track is Also sprach Zarathustra. Another point of this is people don't realise the part that they know is only the opening section, and the people who do know this wouldn't bother listening to it past the initial popular fanfare. This isn't really a classical only perspective though, as people tend to enjoy "greatest hits" period, no matter the genre.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> ...
> Some argue that the sheep-like mentality of youngsters (and even grown ups) is part of the problem...
> 
> That works both ways though. If you like, say, Abba you're unlikely to talk about it much on a forum like this one. In that regard many classical music lovers are also sheep. The're just sheep from a different flock. Besides lots of classical music I also listen to lots of non-classical music - including some that would probably raise eyebrows among some members here (don't worry, I also like 'TC approved' genres like jazz or prog-rock )...


Dead right. When I started mentioning that I listen to Andre Rieu here, there was a bit of an uproar. I wasn't doing it to trolling, but to say I think he's good on a thread set up to poo-poo the man. Basically, we should be free to talk about whatever music we like here. & I include light classical genre in that equation.

Anyway, I think that Mr. Hurwitz forgets that it was the post-war baby boomers generation (his generation?) that started deserting classical in droves for jazz and rock. Classical was not cool and they were rebelling against the _establishment_, which they associated it with. So maybe he can point the finger at his own generation, not the Gen Xers and Y's (& Z's?), who are their children and grandchildren. As I said, people like Mr. Hurwitz always have_ hidden agendas_. Comes across to me as a bit like reverse ageism.

If I was around in 1969, I would not have been at a concert hall, I would have been where it was happening, at the now legendary _Woodstock_ festival. Like it or not, rock n'roll defined that generation.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

Grosse Fugue said:


> http://www.classicstoday.com/editorial-to-hell-with-young-people/
> 
> What does everyone think?
> 
> Personally I find this short sighted, but then I'm 28 so what do I know?


Go to a dance performance. It's worse. You can't swing a pair of smelly ballet slippers without hitting a walker.


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