# Intriguing mismatches



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Despite the disparity in vocal range, I have often wondered (well, not often, but occasionally) how wonderfully sleazily Frank Sinatra would have performed Britten's Serenade. 

So I'll start a thread about performer/work mismatches.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Oscar Peterson and Itzhak Perlman. Itzhak is no jazz musician.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Ravi Shankar and anyone else? 

And then there was this marvelous mismatch, that turned out to be a match (though I suppose opinions are divided on the matter):


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

When the collaboration of Anne-Sofie von Otter and Elvis Costello was announced, it raised some eyebrows (including mine). Turns out that the resulting album (_For the stars_) is excellent.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Sting and the songs of John Dowland ... some liked it and it did raise the profile of Dowland (for a while)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

"Classical Barbra," Streisand's interesting excursion into Debussy, Faure, Handel, Schubert, et al. If you can forget about Elisabeth Schwarzkopf and Maggie Teyte and take it on Barbra's own terms, it's not too bad.

Debussy cum Fanny Brice?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Keith Jarrett and Bach's WTC.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

There was a recording years ago of Chick Corea playing one of the solo parts in Mozart's concerto for 2 pianos.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

No-one mentioning Andrea Bocelli opera recordings.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't know any details but I've heard that there was a programme once where Yehudi Menuhin tried his hand as a folk fiddler, and the consensus was that he wasn't much cop. Similarly, James Galway and Irish Traditional Music (he's too smooth).


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Glenn Gould's Mozart recordings. I've read that he played Mozart badly on purpose, to show his dislike of the music. Whether or not that's true, I certainly dislike his approach to Mozart!


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Keith Jarrett and Bach's WTC.


I would add Mozart's and Bartok's Piano concertos performed by Jarrett.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Itzhak Perlman playing klezmer music. At first expecting a mismatch, but in fact he was very good.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Ingélou said:


> I don't know any details but I've heard that there was a programme once where Yehudi Menuhin tried his hand as a folk fiddler, and the consensus was that he wasn't much cop. Similarly, James Galway and Irish Traditional Music (he's too smooth).


Menuhin made some jazz recordings with Stephane Grapelli. He didn't sound entirely comfortable with the genre. Grapelli's tone was clearer and his ability to make the violin sing was legendary.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Glenn Gould's Mozart recordings. I've read that he played Mozart badly on purpose, to show his dislike of the music. Whether or not that's true, I certainly dislike his approach to Mozart!


Any pianist who dislikes Mozart....well...I simply don't have the words!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> Itzhak Perlman playing klezmer music. At first expecting a mismatch, but in fact he was very good.


Because, ethnically, he was comfortable with the music. The music is part of his ethnic "background".

I am a firm believer that people of Jewish background can appreciate Mahler and "klezmer" more easily than those who are not. It's "in the genes" as I can firmly attest....those Eastern European musical references found in Mahler and klezmer.

That is not to say those who aren't Jewish can't like Mahler. That would be ridiculous!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Because, ethnically, he was comfortable with the music. The music is part of his ethnic "background".
> 
> I am a firm believer that people of Jewish background can appreciate Mahler and "klezmer" more easily than those who are not. It's "in the genes" as I can firmly attest....those Eastern European musical references found in Mahler and klezmer.
> 
> That is not to say those who aren't Jewish can't like Mahler. That would be ridiculous!


Certainly the awareness of Klezmer and familiarity with it as a style helps. When I first heard M's first -- at about 15 in the mid-'60s -- the whole Klezmer aspect of passages in the slow movement went way over my head. Now, when they're done right (as, also, in the 4th movement of the 10th) they really add to an appreciation of what Mahler was trying to do, and the irony expressed in those passages. Of course, to we gentiles, Klezmer didn't even exist 'til the '80s.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Because, ethnically, he was comfortable with the music. The music is part of his ethnic "background".
> 
> I am a firm believer that people of Jewish background can appreciate Mahler and "klezmer" more easily than those who are not. It's "in the genes" as I can firmly attest....those Eastern European musical references found in Mahler and klezmer.
> 
> That is not to say those who aren't Jewish can't like Mahler. That would be ridiculous!


Especially with Perlman growing up in New York, he could almost join Woody Allen in playing in a klezmer band. Yes, you're right, klezmer would have come to Perlman naturally.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Horowitz and Beethoven from the little Ive heard.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> Especially with Perlman growing up in New York, he could almost join Woody Allen in playing in a klezmer band. Yes, you're right, klezmer would have come to Perlman naturally.


It's in his genetic makeup. I'm from Brooklyn, but my roots are from the Eastern European shtetls.

I hear it, I can identify with it, even though I've never been to Eastern Europe.

As Ralph Lauren would say, "It's all in the jeans."

What makes his jeans so special and expensive?

It's all in his secret jean-etic code.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> It's in his genetic makeup. I'm from Brooklyn, but my roots are from the Eastern European shtetls as depicted in Fiddler on the Roof.
> 
> I hear it, I can identify it, even though I've never been to eastern Europe.
> 
> I carry the "genetic code". Mock it if you like. I could care less.


Not mocking at all, but respectful and admiring. Eastern European (partially) here too, and have been there many times. It's a shame later immigrant generations completely ignore or forget their cultural heritage. (Woody Allen is fairly accomplished with clarinet and mentioning him was not intended to knock klezmer).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> Itzhak Perlman playing klezmer music. At first expecting a mismatch, but in fact he was very good.


So, _what,_ you're saying that _Itzy_ should not know _Klezmer?_ Oy!!!


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> So, _what,_ you're saying that _Itzy_ should not know _Klezmer?_ Oy!!!


Oy! Yes, I got hammered for not realizing Itzy was a natural with this genre. Our New York friends made sure of that! Deservedly so.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> So, _what,_ you're saying that _Itzy_ should not know _Klezmer?_ Oy!!!


I did give post of the day already but this is very close.:tiphat:


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

Renee Fleming and jazz music? :devil:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Scopitone said:


> Renee Fleming and jazz music? :devil:


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Scopitone said:


> Renee Fleming and jazz music? :devil:


Renee Fleming is a fascinating case. I've always felt that despite her superb operatic voice and technique, her temperament sits somewhere between classical and popular. I'm not alone in noticing the occasional intrusion of jazzy little coos and sighs into her singing of classical repertoire, and she does have a distinctively personal and technically extraordinary (if controversial) way with non-classical music. Apparently she originally had ambitions to be a jazz singer, and her talents were appreciated by some of the jazz musicians she sang with during her college years.


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## lluissineu (Dec 27, 2016)

hpowders said:


> It's in his genetic makeup. I'm from Brooklyn, but my roots are from the Eastern European shtetls.
> 
> I hear it, I can identify with it, even though I've never been to Eastern Europe.
> 
> ...


I'm not so convinced about The influence of genetics. My family comes from the centre of Spain, The city where mighty Philip II had his court. I've always loved Elizabeth I of England even though, as far as I'm aware, there's no sign of English blood in my veins. I was born in Mallorca, a Catalan speaking territory and I feel much more attached to it than to my parents homeland.

My daughter was born in Africa. We adopted her after an illness in order to be cured in Europe. She can't deny her african roots, but, apart from loving sun and heat, she is absolutely european, I'd say, Majorcan.

I'm not equipped to deny the influence of DNA in personal tastes but, I'm not very convinced.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

lluissineu said:


> I'm not so convinced about The influence of genetics. My family comes from the centre of Spain, The city where mighty Philip II had his court. I've always loved Elizabeth I of England even though, as far as I'm aware, there's no sign of English blood in my veins. I was born in Mallorca, a Catalan speaking territory and I feel much more attached to it than to my parents homeland.
> 
> My daughter was born in Africa. We adopted her after an illness in order to be cured in Europe. She can't deny her african roots, but, apart from loving sun and heat, she is absolutely european, I'd say, Majorcan.
> 
> I'm not equipped to deny the influence of DNA in personal tastes but, I'm not very convinced.


You need to have your DNA analyzed. You may be a closet British pureblood.

Do you find yourself rooting for Chelsea when they play Real Madrid or Barcelona?

Do you prefer listening to Bach's English Suites rather than de Falla's Nights in the Garden's of Spain?

Do you prefer reading Dicken's A Tale of two Cities rather than Cervante's Don Quixote?

Do you prefer eating porridge for breakfast rather than a spanish omelet?

Does Elgar's music keep you awake but Granados puts you to sleep?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Renee Fleming is a fascinating case. I've always felt that despite her superb operatic voice and technique, her temperament sits somewhere between classical and popular. I'm not alone in noticing the occasional intrusion of jazzy little coos and sighs into her singing of classical repertoire, and she does have a distinctively personal and technically extraordinary (if controversial) way with non-classical music. Apparently she originally had ambitions to be a jazz singer, and her talents were appreciated by some of the jazz musicians she sang with during her college years.


At leasts someone with good ears.:tiphat:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Pugg said:


> At leasts someone with good ears.:tiphat:


The pleasure is mine, Renee.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

What happens when a classical pianist tries to play Art Tatum. Listen to one of Tatum's own recordings and compare. 
This guy is obviously very technically solid, but has no ear for jazz.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Gordontrek said:


> What happens when a classical pianist tries to play Art Tatum. Listen to one of Tatum's own recordings and compare.
> This guy is obviously very technically solid, but has no ear for jazz.


Man playing at the very limits of his technique in a genre with which he is clearly not comfortable. Mind you, attempting to emulate Art Tatum is a mighty big ambition!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

MarkW , the Britten serenade is written for a tenor , and Sinatra was a baritone . I doubt he would have managed the high notes well . Sinatra might have been interesting in classical vocal works written for baritone , possibly German lieder .


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

Scopitone said:


> Renee Fleming and jazz music? :devil:


Fleming sang a pop song in a Thanksgiving Day parade a couple of years back. I was watching it on TV and when she came on it surprised me a little. I don't remember what she sang but it was quite underwhelming. There was a lot going against her, though. Not only was the genre out of her element, but it was it a freezing cold day with heavy winds, and she was clearly the only singer in the whole parade NOT lip syncing. All things considered she did pretty well. I doubt any of the pop singers in the show would have dared to sing for real in those conditions.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

superhorn said:


> MarkW , the Britten serenade is written for a tenor , and Sinatra was a baritone . I doubt he would have managed the high notes well . Sinatra might have been interesting in classical vocal works written for baritone , possibly German lieder .


Thanks. I did mention the disparity in vocal range, but I still think a Nelson Riddle arrangement would be an absolute hoot!


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