# Wiener Philharmoniker string section sounds distinctly



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Not the brass, not the winds, but the strings seem to have a distinctive VPO sound whenever I hear this orchestra. This is true to me whether I listen to a 2019 or 1940s recording, and regardless of _where _have they been recorded.

I would describe the difference as the Wiener sounding somewhat richer/fuller and more charismatic.

Has anyone else had this impression?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I would argue that the Wieners have a distinct sound, period, but a lot of that does come down to their great string section. They are definitely one of my favorite orchestras thanks in part to this distinctiveness.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Fabulin said:


> Not the brass, not the winds, but the strings seem to have a distinctive VPO sound whenever I hear this orchestra. This is true to me whether I listen to a 2019 or 1940s recording, and regardless of _where _have they been recorded.
> 
> I would describe the difference as the Wiener sounding somewhat richer/fuller and more charismatic.
> 
> Has anyone else had this impression?


Strangely the brass section plays with Viennese horns and the woodwinds use Viennese oboes that have a distinctive sound - could it be that by doing so they create a different overall balance that makes the strings appear different?

Or could it be that they tend to play string parts with an additional 'lilt' that other orchestras don't.

Whatever the reason the produce a highly enjoyable overall sound.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I don't know if you've ever had the luck to attend live performances of the Wiener Philharmoniker recently. I haven't, but I have been noticing a progressively smoother string sound over the years, almost becoming unrecognizable, or very toned down like in Muti's Bruckner No.2. For my ears, the last live recording I've listened to with the distinctive String sound you talk about was in the Wiener Staatsoper performance of Dvorak's Rusalka under Vaclav Neumann (1987). The Bruckner 8 from 1988 by Karajan sounds really sharp but there are lots of hints of smoothness. 

This can be a dumb theory, but is it fair to argue that Decca has shaped the perception us listeners have from the Wiener Philharmoniker? Like that was its original sound even if Karl Böhm was conducting the same orchestra and DG made their Beethoven cycle sound entirely different to HS Isserstedt or Solti's Wagner Ring? Orfeo ORF tapes can prove otherwise but I'm talking about genuine sound and not the versatility the WPO could have to play Schubert, Dvorak, Sibelius or Mahler.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I have the good fortune to hear them often, and I think they still have that string sound you're talking about, although it isn't as pronounced as it once was. I'm sure recording technology influences our expectations; it would be really interesting to compare polished studio recordings with undoctored live tapes, with the actual sound itself as the object of examination rather than the performance.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I found this sound in music from Austrian films of the 1940s, recordings from Sommernachtskonzerts and Neujahrskonzerts, and various recordings from the 20th century by W. Furtwängler, G. Solti, and C. Kleiber.

The only comparable string sound quality (although not as striking) are the recordings of Stokowski and Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra. They both had some special directions for the strings (something to do with not playing in unison, and with stacking vibrations). I read somewhere that this approach has been rejected when Muti took the helm in Philadelphia. It also contrasts with the very controlled strings of the LSO for example.

I find what you say about their brass being unique curious. To me the viennese brass sounds rather weak when compared to English or American orchestras.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

If you ever get the chance to hear the VPO live, keep an eye on the strings section. The not only have a great, unified, rich and warm sound, the players _move_ together. When there's an accent for example, the whole of the violins physically move forward. It's really fun to watch. The basses may not be as physical for understandable reasons. And it's not just the strings, either. The wind players do it too - they're communicating style, rhythm and phrasing with their whole bodies. There's no doubt in my mind that part of the reason they play so well and keep their distinctive sound is this cooperation.

The VPO does sound somewhat different depending on who the recording engineers were (are) for sure. The famous Decca ffrr sound is different from what DG and EMI got. In the digital era, I haven't noticed such wide differences. And it also depends who the conductor is. Some maestros had more pull in getting the players they wanted for a certain gig. The VPO is a huge orchestra that can be on a tour and play in the opera pit on the same night. Maybe that's why the brass section can sound different - it's not always the same section. I don't think they're weak at all - they're full-blooded, rich and sonorous looking for beauty, compared to the Mac Truck approach of Chicago, for example. And, the VPO uses those German rotary trumpets that have a decidedly different sound from the piston valved instruments universally used in Britain, the US, and the rest of the world.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> If you ever get the chance to hear the VPO live, keep an eye on the strings section. The not only have a great, unified, rich and warm sound, the players _move_ together. When there's an accent for example, the whole of the violins physically move forward. It's really fun to watch. The basses may not be as physical for understandable reasons. And it's not just the strings, either. The wind players do it too - they're communicating style, rhythm and phrasing with their whole bodies. There's no doubt in my mind that part of the reason they play so well and keep their distinctive sound is this cooperation.
> 
> The VPO does sound somewhat different depending on who the recording engineers were (are) for sure. The famous Decca ffrr sound is different from what DG and EMI got. In the digital era, I haven't noticed such wide differences. And it also depends who the conductor is. Some maestros had more pull in getting the players they wanted for a certain gig. The VPO is a huge orchestra that can be on a tour and play in the opera pit on the same night. Maybe that's why the brass section can sound different - it's not always the same section. I don't think they're weak at all - they're full-blooded, rich and sonorous looking for beauty, compared to the Mac Truck approach of Chicago, for example. And, the VPO uses those German rotary trumpets that have a decidedly different sound from the piston valved instruments universally used in Britain, the US, and the rest of the world.


My reasoning was mistaken then. Now that I think of the videos of the VPO, they indeed do move in great synchronisation, which undermines my theorizing about those Stokowski / Ormandy techniques. So the resulting vibration might on the contrary be the result of synchronization, and resulting amplification / clarity of the waves of reverb?


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