# Best interpretations of the Bach Cello Suites



## MyMusicWorld

I heard part of Pierre Fournier's recording of the First Cello Suite this morning and liked it very much. Which cellist, in your opinion, has made the finest recording of these suites? What did you like about that recording? What particular aspects of the recording made the greatest impression on you? And for other outstanding cellists and their recordings of the suites?


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## Tallisman

Casals, if you can handle the old recordings.


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## Pugg

​


> In May 2014 the Hungarian cellist* István Várda*i performed three Bach Suites at an unusual venue in New York: not the storied glamour of Carnegie Hall or the hip 92st St Y, but the Board of Officers Room in the recently renovated Armory on Park Avenue, a room no less redolent of distinguished history: to which he made his own distinguished contribution according to the New York Times, with a recital which concluded with a 'superb' performance of the Sixth Suite.
> 
> Having just turned 30, Várdai has accumulated a string of impressive competition successes including first prize at the Geneva International competition and the prestigious ARD cello competition in Munich, as well as special prize at the Kronberg Academy's annual competition. Now, therefore, is as good a time as any to put down his thoughts on every cellist's Old Testament with his superb 1720 Montagnana instrument, which he also uses for the Sixth Suite, originally conceived by Bach for a five‐stringed instrument such as the viola da spalla or violoncello piccolo.


Stunning, price.......next to nothing.


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## Oldhoosierdude

I've always like Maurice Gendron, Fournier, and Yo yo Ma Inspired by Bach recordings. But there are plenty of other good ones out there. Try Queyras, a great recording but too pricey for me.


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## Boothvoice

If you started with Fournier, you picked a good place...settle in with those for awhile..and ENJOY!


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## wkasimer

MyMusicWorld said:


> I heard part of Pierre Fournier's recording of the First Cello Suite this morning and liked it very much. Which cellist, in your opinion, has made the finest recording of these suites? What did you like about that recording? What particular aspects of the recording made the greatest impression on you? And for other outstanding cellists and their recordings of the suites?


I own about fifty different recordings of these, and can't even imagine choosing a favorite. If you're looking for other recordings to buy, I would suggest that you go on Spotify, where there are dozens of recordings that you can sample.

That said, I wouldn't want to be without several. Queyras and Geringas are superb, central recordings, always interesting and beautifully played and recorded, without gimmick or mannerism. If you want something more "old school" and Romantic, try Kirshbaum or Suren Bagratuni. If you want HIP, there are lots of choices; Bylsma's first recording would be a good place to start. And for something on a modern instrument with HIP influence, that really emphasizes the dance origins of the movements, the late Heinrich Schiff's recording is among my favorites.

And that only scratches the surface. The reality is that virtually every cellist with reasonable skills has recorded these; there are wonderful recordings by cellists that you've never heard of, and disappointing ones by some very, very famous ones.


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## wkasimer

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Try Queyras, a great recording but too pricey for me.


Worth every penny. I left out Pieter Wispelwey, who recorded the suites three times; my preference is for the second one, which is actually the cheapest.


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## Bulldog

For the sharpest of HIP recordings, I always recommend Paolo Beschi ( a version anti-hip folks love to hate).


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## JSBach85

I really appreciate this thread since I had this question as well. I am not a big fan of violoncello but I have a great interest in JS Bach solo cello suites BWV 1007-1012. I am not familiar with such instrumental works, but I still remember those times when I listened to a radio program devoted to JS Bach, They played Anner Bylsma performances since It was like a classic reference for Bach Cello Suites so I finally ordered this recording:










I am more interested in the instrument rather than the performer since I have a great curious to know how a baroque cello sounds. Bylsma plays a Stradivarious violoncello, I wonder how many other performers plays on original/period baroque violoncellos. Sigiswald Kuijken is claimed to be an expert in violincello da spalla, I may consider this recording as well:










I appreciate any other suggestions as well. Hopefully I will come back to comment about Anner Bylsma recording when recived.

Edited: This is the only recording I own, since I listened to Jaap ter Linden as part of an ensemble and being cheap I decided to purchase it several years ago.










Jaap ter Linden uses a Giovanni Grancino, Milano 1703 violoncello.


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## wkasimer

JSBach85 said:


> I really appreciate this thread since I had this question as well. I am not a big fan of violoncello but I have a great interest in JS Bach solo cello suites BWV 1007-1012. I am not familiar with such instrumental works, but I still remember those times when I listened to a radio program devoted to JS Bach, They played Anner Bylsma performances since It was like a classic reference for Bach Cello Suites so I finally ordered this recording:
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> I am more interested in the instrument rather than the performer since I have a great curious to know how a baroque cello sounds. Bylsma plays a Stradivarious violoncello, I wonder how many other performers plays on original/period baroque violoncellos. Sigiswald Kuijken is claimed to be an expert in violincello da spalla, I may consider this recording as well:
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> I appreciate any other suggestions as well. Hopefully I will come back to comment about Anner Bylsma recording when recived.
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> Edited: This is the only recording I own, since I listened to Jaap ter Linden as part of an ensemble and being cheap I decided to purchase it several years ago.
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> Jaap ter Linden uses a Giovanni Grancino, Milano 1703 violoncello.


The Bylsma recording that you reference is his second recording. It's a good one, but his earlier recording is, I think, a little more interesting.

I found Kuijken's recording with violoncello da spalla kind of dull, and it's not the fault of the instrument. If you want to hear the music on the violoncello da spalla, I think that Dimitry Badiarov's recording is vastly superior:


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## Brahmsianhorn

Casals and Fournier for me


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## staxomega

These are my notes for the Bach Cello Suites

Casals - first recording is too brisk, I prefer his later recordings on Columbia, though I prefer others over the Columbia recordings so overall I don't play Casals all that often. 

Fournier- fine performances though quite romantic with liberal use of vibrato.

Starker- he has recorded these numerous times through his career, the ones I keep coming back to are the Mercury recordings which are deep, meditative performances and extremely well played. Overall they remain my favorite. 

Rostropovich and Wispelway I recall these very good as well, though it's been many years since I've heard them.


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## Merl

staxomega said:


> These are my notes for the Bach Cello Suites
> Starker- he has recorded these numerous times through his career, the ones I keep coming back to are the Mercury recordings which are deep, meditative performances and extremely well played. Overall they remain my favorite. .


Same here. Love Schiff too.


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## wkasimer

staxomega said:


> These are my notes for the Bach Cello Suites
> 
> Casals - first recording is too brisk, I prefer his later recordings on Columbia, though I prefer others over the Columbia recordings so overall I don't play Casals all that often.


To the best of my knowledge (although I'd love to be proven wrong), Casals only recorded the suites once, during the 1930's. He recorded a few odd movements during the acoustic era, but that's all. Are you perhaps mixing up the Bach suites with the Beethoven sonatas (which Casals did record twice)?


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## realdealblues

I'm scared to actually count how many recordings I have of the Bach Cello Suites. 
My personal favorite that I reach for most often is:

Heinrich Schiff









Why? Because Schiff brings out the dance qualities more than anyone else in my opinion. His rhythm and accents are just perfect. He never loses the pulse that flows through each suite making everything sound perfectly balanced from start to finish.

I like lots of others. Rostropovich, Starker, Fournier, Gendron but Schiff is still my overall go to.


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## wkasimer

Bulldog said:


> For the sharpest of HIP recordings, I always recommend Paolo Beschi ( a version anti-hip folks love to hate).


Beschi's set is terrific - so is Paolo Pandolfo's (Pandolfo plays them on a viola da gamba). Both have an improvisatory quality that I love.


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## bobleflaneur

wkasimer said:


> To the best of my knowledge (although I'd love to be proven wrong), Casals only recorded the suites once, during the 1930's. He recorded a few odd movements during the acoustic era, but that's all. Are you perhaps mixing up the Bach suites with the Beethoven sonatas (which Casals did record twice)?


There are live postwar recordings from Prades of one or two of the suites in the M&A sets, but not a full cycle. Sadly, I find Casals's intonation too inconsistent at that point to get much enjoyment out of those sets.

There's also a Japanese DVD that includes one of them, filmed in Puerto Rico in 1956.

And then I just discovered on youtube that there's a video of the first suite from Prades in 1954:




It's quite similar interpretively to the prewar recording (and, if anything, faster).


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## staxomega

wkasimer said:


> To the best of my knowledge (although I'd love to be proven wrong), Casals only recorded the suites once, during the 1930's. He recorded a few odd movements during the acoustic era, but that's all. Are you perhaps mixing up the Bach suites with the Beethoven sonatas (which Casals did record twice)?


Yes, indeed I did mean the Beethoven sonatas. Not sure how I confused these two, though I do in fact prefer his second recording for these works 

Oof I made some other mistake recalling a classical performance recently, not sure what is going on with my memory. Maybe time to get checked for any trinucleotide repeats


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## hpowders

Fournier is fine. So is the first Ma.


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## Pugg

After István Várdai I would say H. Schiff


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## premont

One of the most original and rewarding interpretations I ever have heard is Wolfgang Rübsam's transcription for lute-harpsichord, played by himself and available for streaming or download on his website here:

https://www.wolfgangrubsam.com/

https://www.wolfgangrubsam.com/listen

A revelation for those who love this music.


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## Merl

Listening to this today. Excellent set. If you like Casals' Bach you'll like this.


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## Martin70

I own over 70 recordings and would not be without any of them. Which one I reach for depends on my mood. Currently, my favorites are Istevan Vardai and Jean-Guihen Queyras although Rostropovich and Heinrich Schiff are regularly played. However, I am looking forward to hearing Yo-yo Ma on his new recording. Each performer seems to bring something new which is why I keep collecting them.


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## San Antone

Here lately, I like *Lipkind* and *Demenga*.


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## Martin70

I have not yet got the latest Demenga recording, I will get it ordered. Thank you for the recommendation.


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## Itullian

I just got the Schiff from the recommendations here.
I love it. 
Which one next? 
:tiphat:


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## Itullian

Some great suggestions here.
I currently have Gendron and Schiff.
I'd like a couple more.


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## Guest

Itullian said:


> Some great suggestions here.
> I currently have Gendron and Schiff.
> I'd like a couple more.


Hard to image a better pair. A standard recommendation is Fournier, who is probably similar to Gendron in approach, and which I love. For a highly romantic vision you could consider Rostropovich on EMI.


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## premont

Baron Scarpia said:


> Hard to image a better pair. A standard recommendation is Fournier, who is probably similar to Gendron in approach, and which I love. For a highly romantic vision you could consider Rostropovich on EMI.


Who wants a highly romantic vision in Bach.?


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## Guest

premont said:


> Who wants a highly romantic vision in Bach.?


Itullian, maybe?

Playing it on a harpsichord is ok, but schmaltzing it up a bit is not?


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## Itullian

Baron Scarpia said:


> Itullian, maybe?
> 
> Playing it on a harpsichord is ok, but schmaltzing it up a bit is not?


I enjoy different approaches. 
But I don't care for a wide dynamic range though.
I listen on headphones and don't want to be startled when a loud track come on.


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## Itullian

I just got the Kirshbaum.
It's my new favorite. 
Now for a period one.


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## Guest

Itullian said:


> I just got the Kirshbaum.
> It's my new favorite.
> Now for a period one.


All I can say about an HIP version is avoid Harnoncourt.


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## Itullian

Baron Scarpia said:


> All I can say about an HIP version is avoid Harnoncourt.


Don't worry about that! :lol:


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## Ras

Itullian said:


> I just got the Kirshbaum.
> It's my new favorite.
> Now for a period one.


My favorite period recording is P. Wispelwey's on Evil Penguin (yes, that's the name of the label  )








There is an earlier recording on Channel which I suggest you avoid.

Jaap ter Linden's recording for Brilliant Classics is excellent - there is an earlier recording for Harmoni mundi which I have not heard, but if you can get the Briliant it really lives up the label's name… :









On a shoulder-cello there is Dmitry Badiarov and Sigiswald Kuijken:

















Queyras on HM plays a modern instrument but he is Hip.
Isserlis on Hyperion and Anne Gastinel on Naive are other options.


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## wkasimer

Ras said:


> My favorite period recording is P. Wispelwey's on Evil Penguin (yes, that's the name of the label  )
> View attachment 107523
> 
> 
> There is an earlier recording on Channel which I suggest you avoid.


There are two different Wispelwey recordings on Channel - for which one are you suggesting avoidance?


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## Ras

wkasimer said:


> There are two different Wispelwey recordings on Channel - for which one are you suggesting avoidance?


*It's the one recorded in a church in Holland in January 1998 I don't like.
*My version has this cover:








(But I haven't listened to for a long time. Maybe I should give it another chance. Just not right now - I'm listening to the brand new third rendition by Yo-Yo Ma - enjoying it actually…)


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## premont

Ras said:


> On a shoulder-cello there is *Dmitry Badiarov and Sigiswald Kuijken*:


And Ryo Terakado (Denon).


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## Ras

premont said:


> And Ryo Terakado (Denon).


Thank you premont - I've never heard about Terakado before!


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## premont

Ras said:


> Thank you premont - I've never heard about Terakado before!


Terakado has a long history in the HIP movement. He has been a member of La Petite Bande and is the leader of Suzuli's Bach Collegium, Japan.


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## Mandryka

Is a violoncello piccolo the same as a cello da spalla? If it is there's also Ditta Rohmann's recording of the 6th











> . . . the Sixth, which she plays on a five-string piccolo cello. This retains the original chordal textures, placing of open strings and resulting harmonic effect that combine to create a ghostly sound that brings yet another facet to these masterworks


https://www.chrisdaniels.biz/ditta-rohmann/


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## joen_cph

After getting Morten Zeuthen's recording, I've always felt quite satisfied with that. BTW it also has the flute partita arranged for cello.


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> Is a violoncello piccolo the same as a cello da spalla? If it is there's also Ditta Rohmann's recording of the 6th


You will probably have to ask Badiarov about the relation in the construction. Maybe the greatest difference is, that the violoncello piccolo is held between the legs.


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## Ras

premont said:


> Terakado has a long history in the HIP movement. He has been a member of La Petite Bande and is the leader of Suzuli's Bach Collegium, Japan.


Ah, ok, then I probably have some cds with him - just not as a soloist.


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## Ras

Mandryka said:


> Is a violoncello piccolo the same as a cello da spalla? I


From the English wiki page about cello da spalla:

>>>Because of the variety in terminology used in the eighteenth century, it can be difficult now to determine exactly what instrument was intended in specific instances. The terms "violoncello da spalla" and "viola da spalla" tend to appear in theoretical works rather than as instrument designations from composers. However, it is possible that J. S. Bach, and perhaps other composers, might have intended the violoncello da spalla in cases where the "violoncello piccolo" is specified. This term, "violoncello piccolo", features in many of the Bach cantatas, with the parts written in a variety of clefs (bass, tenor, alto and soprano). The variety of clefs has been taken as a representation of the instrument's relatively wide range.[2] The five-string version of the instrument may have been what Bach had in mind for performing his Cello Suite No. 6 (which presents many technical problems on a four-string cello). <<<

For those who reads German there is much more detailled wiki page:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violoncello_piccolo

Richard Tunnicliffe (Linn), Wispelwey (Channel, 1998) and A. Bylsma (Sony/Columbia 1979) all use piccolo cellos (held between the legs as premont said) for the last suite - whereas playing them on a cello da spalla is something new. 
I have a vague recollection of reading that shoulder cellos were newly build from paintings and drawings - no such instrument from the period actually exist!


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## wkasimer

Ras said:


> *It's the one recorded in a church in Holland in January 1998 I don't like.
> *My version has this cover:
> View attachment 107545
> 
> 
> (But I haven't listened to for a long time. Maybe I should give it another chance. Just not right now - I'm listening to the brand new third rendition by Yo-Yo Ma - enjoying it actually…)


This is actually the Wispelwey version I prefer. The main difference with the later Evil Penguin version is that the latter is pitched even lower (A=392, IIRC).


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## wkasimer

Ras said:


> I have a vague recollection of reading that shoulder cellos were newly build from paintings and drawings - no such instrument from the period actually exist!


I'm pretty sure that Badiarov plays an instrument of his own manufacture (he's also a luthier). His version is, I think, the best of the three versions played on the violoncello da spalla.


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## Mandryka

joen_cph said:


> After getting Morten Zeuthen's recording, I've always felt quite satisfied with that. BTW it also has the flute partita arranged for cello.


There's something very unusual about Zeuthen's recording, by coincidence I've been listening to him play 2, 5 and 6 this week. It's as if he articulates very cleanly, it's like he speaks like an in-fant school teach-er speaks to the child-ren. I exaggerate of course!

Anyway, another thing I thought while listening to it is that I'm becoming less and less tolerant of his way of playing the modern cello, extrovert, almost operatic.


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## joen_cph

Well, that's not the conventional characterization of the instrument, which is usually seen as belonging to the more intimate voices among instruments. But then, I like a loud, almost shouting cello declamatory passage in the Denisov Cello Concerto played by K. Georgian, and I find most viola da gamba recordings - of earlier music - too murmuring and lacking the feeling of bigger architectural or indeed "vocal" lines, that I often tend to prefer in music ... I'm sure alternative viola da gamba recordings exist, though.


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## Ras

wkasimer said:


> This is actually the Wispelwey version I prefer. The main difference with the later Evil Penguin version is that the latter is pitched even lower (A=392, IIRC).


The lower pitch doesn't bother me - I could probably hear them on double bass and still enjoy them!

I prefer the Evil Penguin recording because to me it sounds "fluent". - Evil Penguin is like a long winding country road in fine weather and Channel 1998 is a big city full of traffic lights and stop and go.


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## Ras

wkasimer said:


> I'm pretty sure that Badiarov plays an instrument of his own manufacture (he's also a luthier). His version is, I think, the best of the three versions played on the violoncello da spalla.


Yes, I think you are right.


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## KenOC

Ras said:


> The lower pitch doesn't bother me - I could probably hear them on double bass and still enjoy them!


That's the way Edgar Meyer plays them, and it works well!


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## premont

wkasimer said:


> I'm pretty sure that Badiarov plays an instrument of his own manufacture (he's also a luthier). His version is, I think, the best of the three versions played on the violoncello da spalla.


Kuijken and Terakado on their recordings also play violoncelli da spalla made by Badiarov.


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## gardibolt

Was just listening to Anner Bylsma's Suite #2 this morning. Very vigorous, engaging reading.


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## Guest

wkasimer said:


> This is actually the Wispelwey version I prefer. The main difference with the later Evil Penguin version is that the latter is pitched even lower (A=392, IIRC).


I didn't really like Evil Penguin. Not that the pitch is low, per se, but that it gives the cello a growling sonority that I don't find at all attractive.


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## Mandryka

wkasimer said:


> This is actually the Wispelwey version I prefer. The main difference with the later Evil Penguin version is that the latter is pitched even lower (A=392, IIRC).


Don't you think that Evil Penguin is more dramatic, less sweetly cantabile? That's my impression.

I like the harmonies in Evil Penguin, like Lyra Viol music sounds from 100 years previous! I've just been listening to 1012/sarabande on Evil Penguin.


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## wkasimer

Mandryka said:


> Don't you think that Evil Penguin is more dramatic, less sweetly cantabile? That's my impression.


It's more dramatic than his first recording, but I find the second one plenty dramatic.


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## DFlat

Casals pre-war is amazing. And Paul Tortelier. Tortelier recorded all six three times (1960, 1982, and 1990). His 1960, though good, is my least favorite of his. In later years he wasn’t very fond of it himself – though a lot of great musicians are very hard on themselves. I love his recording from 1982. And he recorded a video of the complete suites at the Casals Prades Festival in 1990, just months before his death at 76. He was in poor health, so there are technical lapses. But these were live recordings, and he plays with such intensity and emotion. There’s also something about watching him that adds a lot. But my favorites are Casals and 1982 Tortelier.


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## Algaer

I have listened to many and the Rostropovich is my favorite followed by Yo Yo Ma's "Evolutions". I did find the Fournier very good as well.


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## Algaer

The first Ma is very good but I prefer Rostropovich for this tempo. I like Ma's "Evolutions" version for a more emotive and nuanced reading of the work.


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## WildThing

Paolo Beschi is the only HIP version I currently have, but would like to hear some other renditions on a baroque cello. What are some other preferred HIP recordings of the suites?


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## wkasimer

WildThing said:


> Paolo Beschi is the only HIP version I currently have, but would like to hear some other renditions on a baroque cello. What are some other preferred HIP recordings of the suites?


Pieter Wispelwey (his second and third recordings)
Anner Bylsma (both, although I prefer his earlier one)
Lucia Swarts (just issued by Challenge). Swarts is a pupil of the late Anner Bylsma

And for a bit of variety, there's a superb recording on viola da gamba by Paolo Pandolfi, and a fine one on the shoulder cello (violincello da spalla) by Dmitry Badiarov.


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## Mandryka

WildThing said:


> Paolo Beschi is the only HIP version I currently have, but would like to hear some other renditions on a baroque cello. What are some other preferred HIP recordings of the suites?


I think you should try to hear Dmitry Badiarov.


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## Judith

Only one recording for me.
Steven Isserlis.
Love his deep, rich and warm sound when I listen to them


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## realdealblues

Picked this one up a while back for $3. I had never heard of William Butt and it's a live recording. Can't but my finger on exactly why but I rather enjoyed it quite a lot.


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## Merl

I know not everyone likes this disc but I think it's absolutely terrific. The sound on this recording is stunning. It'll never replace Starker RCA but as a different recording I love it.


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## haziz

I have 20-30 recordings of it, not counting the others available from streaming services. I like many, but am most partial to any of the recordings by Pieter Wispelwey. He made three recordings of the Cello Suites, I like the third and most recent slightly more, but any of his recordings are great.

I was lucky enough to hear him play all 6 suites live in Alice Tully Hall in Lincoln Center a few years ago. It was special.


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## flamencosketches

I actually don't own the Suites on CD, don't know which one to buy. I like Bylsma 1 but I can't seem to find it cheaply. Don't know anything about any of the other ones. 

Thoughts on Pierre Fournier on Archiv? Looks interesting.


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## wkasimer

haziz said:


> I have 20-30 recordings of it, not counting the others available from streaming services. I like many, but am most partial to any of the recordings by Pieter Wispelwey. He made three recordings of the Cello Suites, I like the third and most recent slightly more, but any of his recordings are great.


I slightly prefer the second recording, which has, for some reason, always been less expensive than the other two. The first one is very different interpretively from the second and third - it's much more restrained and I find it a bit bland, and IIRC, he used a modern cello for the first one.


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> I actually don't own the Suites on CD, don't know which one to buy. I like Bylsma 1 but I can't seem to find it cheaply. Don't know anything about any of the other ones.


Bylsma recorded the suites twice. The first one, which I prefer, is still available on a pair of Sony "Essential Classics" CD's, both of which are pretty inexpensive on Amazon Marketplace:















The second recording is a little more smoothly played, a little more what I'd call "mainstream". The earlier one is gruffer, more extreme in terms of tempo choices and rubato. This is the later one, which isn't quite as cheap:


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> Thoughts on Pierre Fournier on Archiv? Looks interesting.


It's a very good, "central" version. It was one of the first ones I heard (after the Casals) 40 or so years ago, because it was one of the few available when I started collecting. Listening to it after 50 or so years, though, I find it beautifully played but bland, and there are many more recent versions that I prefer.

There are plenty of recordings on Spotify and clips on YouTube - listen to what's available so that you can decide for yourself. If someone held a gun to my head and insisted on a single recording, I'd probably recommend Queyras on Harmonia Mundi.


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## Geoff48

How times change. Now most of the recommendations are played by the HIP brigade. And I’ve acquired a few as part of my predilection for buying multi disc mixed collections. And, as an academic exercise, an opportunity to hear the music as Bach might have done, they are pretty good
But maybe a question arises. Were Bach alive today would he want his music played in an historically informed manner or would he want it performed taking account of all the technical improvements made since his day and also taking account of the change in views and attitudes of our more modern society. Music evolves and doesn’t remain static and neither should performing practice.
Which is a roundabout way of saying that my preferred versions are the great cellists of the fifties and sixties. I like Fournier and Rostropovich, Casals also though not quite as much possibly because of the limited sound, but my favourite is the great French Cellist Paul Tortelier. I know the sixties version is not as much thought of as his later one, by Tortelier himself amongst others, but I must admit a preference for it. I remember him playing a concert in Leeds Town Hall with the Boccherini (Grutzmacher) and Haydn 2nd (gaevert). No concession to authenticity but it certainly made an impression on a youngish schoolboy.


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## wkasimer

Geoff48 said:


> How times change. Now most of the recommendations are played by the HIP brigade.


I don't think that's the case - I most often see recommendations for the recordings of Queyras, Ma, Fournier, Gendron, Starker, Casals et al. Some of them play old cellos, but so does every cellist of renown regardless of the style in which they play. I may recommend Wispelwey 2 or Paolo Beschi or Bylsma or Paolo Pandolfi or Dmitry Badiarov as HIP versions worth hearing, but that doesn't imply that those are necessarily the versions that I'd recommend more generally.

BTW, what are your objections to HIP Bach cello suites? The sound of the instruments or the approach to the music?



> But maybe a question arises. Were Bach alive today would he want his music played in an historically informed manner or would he want it performed taking account of all the technical improvements made since his day and also taking account of the change in views and attitudes of our more modern society.


That, of course, is an unanswerable question. But I'm pretty confident that if he saw Yo Yo Ma playing the sixth suite on a modern, four-string cello, he'd exclaim "Why in God's name are you making it more difficult for yourself?"


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## jegreenwood

wkasimer said:


> Bylsma recorded the suites twice. The first one, which I prefer, is still available on a pair of Sony "Essential Classics" CD's, both of which are pretty inexpensive on Amazon Marketplace:
> 
> View attachment 143137
> View attachment 143138
> 
> 
> The second recording is a little more smoothly played, a little more what I'd call "mainstream". The earlier one is gruffer, more extreme in terms of tempo choices and rubato. This is the later one, which isn't quite as cheap:
> 
> View attachment 143139


Sony had 3 disc budget box that included the suites and the cello sonatas (plus one by J.C.F. Bach). There was no clear indication which Bylsma set it was, but the artwork matches the second set above.


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## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> Thoughts on Pierre Fournier on Archiv? Looks interesting.


To be honest? I don't get the love for Fournier at all. I find it bland, unimaginative, and uninspiring with dated sound quality. I think a great "starter" set would be Starker Mercury (noble and poised in a Fournier-esque way but with more interesting playing IMO), the second Bylsma (light, airy, beautiful), Queyras (great more recent version with some dreamy slow movements) or my overall favorite, Kirshbaum on Virgin or Erato - it's just ravishing!


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## Geoff48

I guess I enjoy a romantic approach to music, not necessarily in strict time but where the feelings of the performer are an integral part of the performance. rather than a more correct but slightly dry interpretation, one which relies on the notes and nothing but the notes, Perhaps it is less apparent in solo music than in keyboard or orchestral music. Although, and I admit not to be an expert, I understand that strings need replacing with time and a Stradivarius strung in the modern manner may well sound different from how it did when first built.


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## wkasimer

Geoff48 said:


> I guess I enjoy a romantic approach to music, not necessarily in strict time but where the feelings of the performer are an integral part of the performance. rather than a more correct but slightly dry interpretation, one which relies on the notes and nothing but the notes.


I completely agree, but those are aspects of performance that are independent of HIP. I've heard plenty of non-HIP performances and recordings that, unfortunately, fit your description.


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## wkasimer

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ...or my overall favorite, Kirshbaum on Virgin or Erato - it's just ravishing!


The Kirshbaum is gorgeous - some of the most beautiful cello tone I've ever heard.


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## Itullian

Kirshbaum is my favorite set.


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## Axiomatic

Given the interest that has been expressed regarding Bylsma, it may be worth mentioning that "Cello Suites and Sonatas" (11 CDs) of Sony's Anner Bylsma Collection contains both the 1979 and 1992 versions, plus more Bach and the Vivaldi sonatas and Boccherini…not to mention "Das Violoncello im 17. Jahrhundert" (1989). The set is available in FLAC (or MP3) for $10-15 USD at various outlets; CDs may be OP but still readily available.


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## jegreenwood

Axiomatic said:


> Given the interest that has been expressed regarding Bylsma, it may be worth mentioning that "Cello Suites and Sonatas" (11 CDs) of Sony's Anner Bylsma Collection contains both the 1979 and 1992 versions, plus more Bach and the Vivaldi sonatas and Boccherini…not to mention "Das Violoncello im 17. Jahrhundert" (1989). The set is available in FLAC (or MP3) for $10-15 USD at various outlets; CDs may be OP but still readily available.


Remarkably it costs less than the download versions of the three CD Set that I have.


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## jegreenwood

jegreenwood said:


> Remarkably it costs less than the download versions of the three CD Set that I have.


Just downloaded the 11 CD set. In addition to more Bach, it includes quite a few works with which I m unfamiliar. And I love cello music.


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## Geoff48

wkasimer said:


> I completely agree, but those are aspects of performance that are independent of HIP. I've heard plenty of non-HIP performances and recordings that, unfortunately, fit your description.


I fully accept your point and there are some pretty poor interpretations on modern instruments where the performer doesn't seem to engage with the music. But I find that generally the HIP brigade seem more concerned with authenticity rather than an enjoyable musical experience. I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of a really good HIP version which I can access on Spotify and which might persuade me I may be mistaken.
Incidentally when the passion for original instruments began to take hold I decided that woodwind sounded so much better on them but that the horns, often misplayed, were something of a trial. I remember a recording of the 1st Brandenburg which was almost hilarious; wish I could remember the perpetrator.


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## wkasimer

Geoff48 said:


> I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of a really good HIP version which I can access on Spotify and which might persuade me I may be mistaken.


Paolo Beschi and Paolo Pandolfo are both on Spotify, as are all three of Wispelwey's versions (I'd recommend either the 2nd on Channel or the 3rd on Evil Penguin), and both of Bylsma's (I prefer 1979). I'd start with Beschi.


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## premont

Try

Colin Carr

Toke Møldrup 

and

Lucia Swarts

for inspired HIP.


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## Helgi

And Thomas Demenga, the recent one on ECM. He uses a baroque cello with gut strings — is that enough to make it HIP? I'm not familiar with other aspects of it like the style of playing, bowing technique and such.

Either way it's one of my favourite cello suite recordings.


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## Marc

Geoff48 said:


> I fully accept your point and there are some pretty poor interpretations on modern instruments where the performer doesn't seem to engage with the music. But I find that generally the HIP brigade seem more concerned with authenticity rather than an enjoyable musical experience. I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of a really good HIP version which I can access on Spotify and which might persuade me I may be mistaken.
> [...]


I'm not gonna react on the 'generally' and 'HIP brigade' remarks, because I know that such a 'brigade' just does not exist, but maybe you'd find Wieland Kuijken an interesting alternative. He takes his time, but, imho, it's quite expressive and it works very well for me.


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## flamencosketches

I've never heard of Kirshbaum, I'll check it out. @wkasimer, I've seen those Sony Essential Classics discs; I was under the impression they were his second cycle. I will probably end up getting those as well as I really did enjoy Bylsma's first cycle.


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## Rogerx

Axiomatic said:


> Given the interest that has been expressed regarding Bylsma, it may be worth mentioning that "Cello Suites and Sonatas" (11 CDs) of Sony's Anner Bylsma Collection contains both the 1979 and 1992 versions, plus more Bach and the Vivaldi sonatas and Boccherini…not to mention "Das Violoncello im 17. Jahrhundert" (1989). The set is available in FLAC (or MP3) for $10-15 USD at various outlets; CDs may be OP but still readily available.


Nice entree, welcome to the Forum


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## Oldhoosierdude

Axiomatic said:


> Given the interest that has been expressed regarding Bylsma, it may be worth mentioning that "Cello Suites and Sonatas" (11 CDs) of Sony's Anner Bylsma Collection contains both the 1979 and 1992 versions, plus more Bach and the Vivaldi sonatas and Boccherini…not to mention "Das Violoncello im 17. Jahrhundert" (1989). The set is available in FLAC (or MP3) for $10-15 USD at various outlets; CDs may be OP but still readily available.


I see , first post. So you have no idea how astoundingly lazy and helpless we are. We require links that take us directly to the item.

And if you would pay for it also that would be appreciated.


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> I've never heard of Kirshbaum, I'll check it out. @wkasimer, I've seen those Sony Essential Classics discs; I was under the impression they were his second cycle. I will probably end up getting those as well as I really did enjoy Bylsma's first cycle.


The Essential Classics discs are definitely the first (1979) cycle.


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## Axiomatic

Two options I've run across-
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8270253--anner-bylsma-plays-cello-suites-and-sonatas
currently $13 FLAC
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/193264-anner-bylsma-plays-cello-suites-and-sonatas/flac
currently 199 Koruna for FLAC + mp3 (a little under $10 USD)
Anyone considering the second option may want to see the discussion of the pleasures and pitfalls of Supraphonline downloads in the "Ridiculous Bargains, CDs and MP3s" thread beginning around Page 100. My own approach at Supraphonline is to download the CDs one by one (their all-in-one downloads are unreliable), use Discogs to relabel the folders, and fetch tags from Musicbrainz Picard. The site is in Czech but structured familiarly, decipherable with a little help from Google Translate, and Paypal-friendly.
Your money, your choice.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Another thread on the Suites.
Your Bach Cello Suites recordings


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## flamencosketches

wkasimer said:


> The Essential Classics discs are definitely the first (1979) cycle.


Right, as you said before. I wasn't trying to contest you, just that I didn't know and assumed otherwise. I will likely be getting those Essential Classics discs as I enjoyed his first cycle but don't own it on CD.


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## Geoff48

Marc said:


> I'm not gonna react on the 'generally' and 'HIP brigade' remarks, because I know that such a 'brigade' just does not exist, but maybe you'd find Wieland Kuijken an interesting alternative. He takes his time, but, imho, it's quite expressive and it works very well for me.


Thanks for your recommendation. I tried listening to Kuijken in the first suite and, rather to my surprise, was very impressed. Maybe the fact that he seemed happy to take the music relatively slowly helped. I look forward to hearing the complete set soon.
However I then listened to Wispelwey and found that he confirmed my earlier prejudices. He didn't seem to be emotionally involved in the music. I appreciate others may hear him differently.
So perhaps I have to accept that to condemn all historically informed performances is as daft as to praise all modern instrumentalists.


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## wkasimer

Geoff48 said:


> However I then listened to Wispelwey and found that he confirmed my earlier prejudices.


Which one? There are three...


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## Marc

Geoff48 said:


> Thanks for your recommendation. I tried listening to Kuijken in the first suite and, rather to my surprise, was very impressed. Maybe the fact that he seemed happy to take the music relatively slowly helped. I look forward to hearing the complete set soon.
> However I then listened to Wispelwey and found that he confirmed my earlier prejudices. He didn't seem to be emotionally involved in the music. I appreciate others may hear him differently.
> So perhaps I have to accept that to condemn all historically informed performances is as daft as to praise all modern instrumentalists.


Happy to hear you like them! That makes two of us. 

I.c. Wispelwey: did you listen to all of his recordings? I'm asking because he made 3 recordings of the suites. I personally think they are all worthwhile checking out, but his best take on these works, imo, is his first one... to me, Wispelwey's approach has flattened out a bit in the other two sets. His first one is very dance-like and, say, more spontaneous, more like a happy young man's interpretation. (But maybe that's not what you prefer to hear in these compositions.)

1st recording:









2nd recording:





3rd recording:


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## wkasimer

Marc said:


> I.c. Wispelwey: did you listen to all of his recordings? I'm asking because he made 3 recordings of the suites. I personally think they are all worthwhile checking out, but his best take on these works, imo, is his first one... to me, Wispelwey's approach has flattened out a bit in the other two sets. His first one is very dance-like and, say, more spontaneous, more like a happy young man's interpretation. (But maybe that's not what you prefer to hear in these compositions.)


Interesting - my impression is exactly the opposite.


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## DavidA

Itullian said:


> Kirshbaum is my favorite set.


I heard Kirshbaum many years ago play three of the suites at the Wigmore Hall. I wondered how I could get through an evening with just a cello but it was enthralling.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> Interesting - my impression is exactly the opposite.


I'm with you on this one, Wkasimer. I prefer the last one.


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## wkasimer

DavidA said:


> I heard Kirshbaum many years ago play three of the suites at the Wigmore Hall. I wondered how I could get through an evening with just a cello but it was enthralling.


On two occasions, I've attended recitals of all six suites - by Colin Carr and Alisa Weilerstein. I have to confess that it was a bit much, even for this Bach Cello Suites addict.


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## DavidA

wkasimer said:


> On two occasions, I've attended recitals of all six suites - by Colin Carr and Alisa Weilerstein. I have to confess that it was a bit much, even for this Bach Cello Suites addict.


Yes I enjoyed hearing just three. I attended a concert of Angela Hewitt playing Book 2 of WTC which went n forever. I couldn't help thinking that Bach would have wondered at our mentality as he never expected it to be performed like that!


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## Bulldog

DavidA said:


> Yes I enjoyed hearing just three. I attended a concert of Angela Hewitt playing Book 2 of WTC which went n forever. I couldn't help thinking that Bach would have wondered at our mentality as he never expected it to be performed like that!


Maybe Bach would have been wondering why she didn't also perform Book 1.

My wife and I also attended a Hewitt concert in Los Alamos where she played some Bach and Ravel. The performances were excellent, but what really impressed me was her perfect posture - the opposite of what you get from the gyrating Lang Lang.


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## jegreenwood

^^True about Hewitt. I saw Schiff do WTC I and WTC II in separate performance. WTC I was easy. WTC II was a bit more work (for him too, I guess) But it was worth it. I heard Weilerstein do the cello suites, but I didn't care for her playing. Tetzlaff doinf the sonatas and partitas was breathtaking.


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## premont

wkasimer said:


> On two occasions, I've attended recitals of all six suites - by Colin Carr and Alisa Weilerstein. I have to confess that it was a bit much, even for this Bach Cello Suites addict.


i can only say that I find both Colin Carr's Bach cello sets outstanding - I would have loved to hear all of them live. As to Wellerstein I am not that convinced.


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## wkasimer

premont said:


> i can only say that I find both Colin Carr's Bach cello sets outstanding


There are two sets by Carr? I only know the Wigmore Live one.


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## premont

He released another - or rather first live recording - some twenty years ago. I think it is OOP since long.

From Bach cantatas homepage:

https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Carr-C.htm

Suites for solo cello, BWV 1007-1012 [17:49, 18:47, 21:17, 21:48, 24:57, 31:01]

Colin Carr (Cello)

GM Recordings GM-2054

Sep 19, 1994 [1, 3, 5]
Sep 23, 1994 [2, 4, 6]
See 25, 1994 [additional recording session]

2-CD / TT: 135:39

Recorded live at Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, Boston, Massachusetts; USA. Producer: Gunther Schuller.
1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 1 BWV 1007 by C. Carr.
2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 2 BWV 1008 by C. Carr.
1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 3 BWV 1009 by C. Carr.
2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 4 BWV 1010 by C. Carr.
1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 5 BWV 1011 by C. Carr.
3rd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 6 BWV 1012 by C. Carr.


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## wkasimer

premont said:


> He released another - or rather first live recording - some twenty years ago. I think it is OOP since long.
> 
> From Bach cantatas homepage:
> 
> https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Carr-C.htm
> 
> Suites for solo cello, BWV 1007-1012 [17:49, 18:47, 21:17, 21:48, 24:57, 31:01]
> 
> Colin Carr (Cello)
> 
> GM Recordings GM-2054
> 
> Sep 19, 1994 [1, 3, 5]
> Sep 23, 1994 [2, 4, 6]
> See 25, 1994 [additional recording session]
> 
> 2-CD / TT: 135:39
> 
> Recorded live at Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, Boston, Massachusetts; USA. Producer: Gunther Schuller.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 1 BWV 1007 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 2 BWV 1008 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 3 BWV 1009 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 4 BWV 1010 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 5 BWV 1011 by C. Carr.
> 3rd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 6 BWV 1012 by C. Carr.


Thanks! I've ordered a copy....


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## wkasimer

premont said:


> He released another - or rather first live recording - some twenty years ago. I think it is OOP since long.
> 
> From Bach cantatas homepage:
> 
> https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Carr-C.htm
> 
> Suites for solo cello, BWV 1007-1012 [17:49, 18:47, 21:17, 21:48, 24:57, 31:01]
> 
> Colin Carr (Cello)
> 
> GM Recordings GM-2054
> 
> Sep 19, 1994 [1, 3, 5]
> Sep 23, 1994 [2, 4, 6]
> See 25, 1994 [additional recording session]
> 
> 2-CD / TT: 135:39
> 
> Recorded live at Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, Boston, Massachusetts; USA. Producer: Gunther Schuller.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 1 BWV 1007 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 2 BWV 1008 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 3 BWV 1009 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 4 BWV 1010 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 5 BWV 1011 by C. Carr.
> 3rd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 6 BWV 1012 by C. Carr.


This arrived yesterday - I've only listened to a bit of it, but the recording quality is stunning.


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## staxomega

wkasimer said:


> There are two sets by Carr? I only know the Wigmore Live one.





premont said:


> He released another - or rather first live recording - some twenty years ago. I think it is OOP since long.
> 
> From Bach cantatas homepage:
> 
> https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Carr-C.htm
> 
> Suites for solo cello, BWV 1007-1012 [17:49, 18:47, 21:17, 21:48, 24:57, 31:01]
> 
> Colin Carr (Cello)
> 
> GM Recordings GM-2054
> 
> Sep 19, 1994 [1, 3, 5]
> Sep 23, 1994 [2, 4, 6]
> See 25, 1994 [additional recording session]
> 
> 2-CD / TT: 135:39
> 
> Recorded live at Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, Boston, Massachusetts; USA. Producer: Gunther Schuller.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 1 BWV 1007 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 2 BWV 1008 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 3 BWV 1009 by C. Carr.
> 2nd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 4 BWV 1010 by C. Carr.
> 1st recording of Suite for solo cello No. 5 BWV 1011 by C. Carr.
> 3rd recording of Suite for solo cello No. 6 BWV 1012 by C. Carr.


Which set would you suggest if forced to just choose one? Thanks.



wkasimer said:


> This arrived yesterday - I've only listened to a bit of it, but the recording quality is stunning.


GM Recordings usually sound incredible. I have the full set of Russell Sherman playing Beethoven's Piano Sonatas and it must be the finest sounding set I've heard. He plays with huge dynamic range and the recording captures it perfectly.


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## premont

staxomega said:


> Which set would you suggest if forced to just choose one? Thanks.


Difficult question, Both are impressive.

So either you need both, or it doesn't matter which one you choose.


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## staxomega

premont said:


> Difficult question, Both are impressive.
> 
> So either you need both, or it doesn't matter which one you choose.


I sampled both on Spotify. My general characterization would be the earlier recording has a more probing aesthetic, a bit more "old fashioned" interpretatively even if it is stylistically modern practice. The Wigmore Hall recital is lighter, airier.

Possible errors in my judgment due to the closer mic'ing of the GM Recording giving it a deeper more intense sound that might just be due to the recording and less his playing.

No doubt both are truly exceptional, I ordered the GM Recordings but I suspect I'll pick up the Wigmore Hall at some point.


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## realdealblues

I just purchased Kirshbaum on CD after reading several positive comments. Looking forward to checking it out.


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## starthrower

Tallisman said:


> Casals, if you can handle the old recordings.


The EMI set has been sitting at a used bookstore in town all summer. It's only 5 bucks but I still haven't bought it. I'm wondering if these performances will win me over? I have a BBC Magazine disc of three suites by Rostropovich that hasn't really grabbed me.


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## wkasimer

starthrower said:


> The EMI set has been sitting at a used bookstore in town all summer. It's only 5 bucks but I still haven't bought it. I'm wondering if these performances will win me over? I have a BBC Magazine disc of three suites by Rostropovich that hasn't really grabbed me.


Three points. First, I don't think that Casals is a good place to start, due to the age of the recording, as well as the vast number of more recent recordings that sound vastly better, by cellists with better technique.

Second, EMI has issued Casals several times, and the earlier ones sound pretty dreadful; later transfers by EMI/Warner sound considerably better.

Finally, don't judge the Bach suites by any Rostropovich recording. A great cellist, but not for Bach.


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## premont

wkasimer said:


> Three points. First, I don't think that Casals is a good place to start, due to the age of the recording, as well as the vast number of more recent recordings that sound vastly better, by cellists with better technique.
> 
> Second, EMI has issued Casals several times, and the earlier ones sound pretty dreadful; later transfers by EMI/Warner sound considerably better.
> 
> Finally, don't judge the Bach suites by any Rostropovich recording. A great cellist, but not for Bach.


Good advices. 
Agree completely on all three points.


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## Oldhoosierdude

premont said:


> Good advices.
> Agree completely on all three points.


Yes, agreed. There are quite a few good BCS mentioned in this thread. I would advise anyone to listen to some offerings on youtube for free.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> Three points. First, I don't think that Casals is a good place to start, due to the age of the recording, as well as the vast number of more recent recordings that sound vastly better, by cellists with better technique.
> 
> Second, EMI has issued Casals several times, and the earlier ones sound pretty dreadful; later transfers by EMI/Warner sound considerably better.
> 
> Finally, don't judge the Bach suites by any Rostropovich recording. A great cellist, but not for Bach.


I'm with you too. Casals, for me, was left a long way behind many years ago.


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## Itullian

Thoroughly taken y this new recording.
Insights, emotion, nuance.
An amazing accomplishment.
Will listen often.
i thought, "wow" several times.


----------

