# Barenboim on Beethoven



## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

Here's an interesting article by Daniel Barenboim. Actually many of his ideas and words are a straight steal from Charles Rosen:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/beethoven-and-quality-courage/?pagination=false


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Here's an interesting article by Daniel Barenboim. Actually many of his ideas and words are a straight steal from Charles Rosen:
> 
> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/beethoven-and-quality-courage/?pagination=false


So is this a thread about plagiarism?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

No, the article is quite interesting. A review, in fact. But it shows how many of these 'experts' plagiarize the ideas of others!! Nicht gut.

When I return to my main house in 2 weeks I'll turn up the exact quotes from Rosen!!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Saw this a couple of days after it was published. Rosen or not, it seemed trite and conventional, with nothing new to say.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Here's an interesting article by Daniel Barenboim. Actually many of his ideas and words are a straight steal from Charles Rosen:
> 
> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/beethoven-and-quality-courage/?pagination=false


Rosen I'll listen to---Barenboim,not interested.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> No, the article is quite interesting. A review, in fact. But it shows how many of these 'experts' plagiarize the ideas of others!! Nicht gut.
> 
> When I return to my main house in 2 weeks I'll turn up the exact quotes from Rosen!!


As has been said, nothing is copyright as long as it is copied right!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

moody said:


> Rosen I'll listen to---Barenboim,not interested.


Now Barenboim might just be losing sleep over that!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> As has been said, nothing is copyright as long as it is copied right!


Or, as Tom Lehrer sang,

"So plagiarize, plagiarise,
Let no one else's work evade your eyes!"


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

A friend e-mailed it to me last week, and my first thought was "it says less than it seems to" -- i.e., if it hadn't been by Barenboim, or someone else of his stature, it probably wouldn't have seen publication in such a venue.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

DavidA said:


> Now Barenboim might just be losing sleep over that!


Dear me,is he another of your dodgy choices along with the dreadful Kennedy---I think you must be the only person to have mentioned the oik on TC.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

moody said:


> Rosen I'll listen to---Barenboim,not interested.


Danny boy can be a bore, I'll admit!:lol: ("Don't want no short people..!") More than made up for by giant-sized ego.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

moody said:


> Dear me,is he another of your dodgy choices along with the dreadful Kennedy---I think you must be the only person to have mentioned the oik on TC.


No, I'm no great fan of Barenboim, actually. But i thought maybe as he's merely the music director of La Scala Milan, the Berlin State Opera and the Staatskapelle Berlin, he would no doubt lose sleep if he knew your opinion of him.

As to the Kennedy, his is an oik who happens to play the violin rather well. However, any digs you have on that please direct to to the correct thread.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

DavidA said:


> No, I'm no great fan of Barenboim, actually. But i thought maybe as he's merely the music director of La Scala Milan, the Berlin State Opera and the Staatskapelle Berlin, he would no doubt lose sleep if he knew your opinion of him.
> 
> As to the Kennedy, his is an oik who happens to play the violin rather well. However, any digs you have on that please direct to to the correct thread.


Barenboim is a talented man and I love his recordings of the Beethoven Klaviersonaten. It's just that he's tempted to talk when he should be conducting or playing!! Like authors, conductors can be terrible bores when they begin to talk about their favourite subjects. There are exceptions, like Nicholas Harnoncourt - whom I adore. Some musicians are fabulously intelligent, but Barenboim's talks always have the faint aroma of the Israel/Palestine conflict about them. (Perhaps, to refer to Larry Hart, I guess that's better than having "the faint aroma of performing seals" ('I Wish I Were in Love Again').

I'll quote Dire Straits about Barenboim: "Oooh, the boy can play".


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Whatever one's opinions of Barenboim's writing or music making the sheer pace of music making he keeps up is staggering, not just as conductor but also pianist. How on earth he manages to keep such a formidable technique with all his other responsibilities is quite incredible to a lesser mortal like myself.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Whatever one's opinions of Barenboim's writing or music making the sheer pace of music making he keeps up is staggering, not just as conductor but also pianist. How on earth he manages to keep such a formidable technique with all his other responsibilities is quite incredible to a lesser mortal like myself.


I saw him many times in Vienna and I completely agree with you. When he's not talking and chomping on that cigar he's a wonder!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I saw him many times in Vienna and I completely agree with you. When he's not talking and chomping on that cigar he's a wonder!


Yes. It is amazing though how many musicians think they have something profound to say outside of their own music making. They should stick to what they do best. The scientist, Richard Feynman, once said that when a scientist talks about non-scientific matters he is just as dumb as the next guy. That probably applies across the board.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Ok I suppose you can say he combines the grand and the personal. But is that any different from many other composers the classical period (and of the romantic period as well)


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