# Chopin - Piano Concerto No. 1



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece and what are the best recordings?


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

In this case the results of the poll are quite strange. 7 users voted from good to excellent, and 3 users voted horrible. Nothing in the middle: you like it, or you hate it. I personally agree with the 7 users and I'm curious to know why the other three have a so negative opinion about the piece.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

HansZimmer said:


> In this case the results of the poll are quite strange. 7 users voted from good to excellent, and 3 users voted horrible. Nothing in the middle: you like it, or you hate it. I personally agree with the 7 users and I'm curious to know why the other three have a so negative opinion about the piece.


I voted "excellent", but some folks find the orchestration sub-par.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

HansZimmer said:


> In this case the results of the poll are quite strange. 7 users voted from good to excellent, and 3 users voted horrible. Nothing in the middle: you like it, or you hate it. I personally agree with the 7 users and I'm curious to know why the other three have a so negative opinion about the piece.


You could make the polls public so that you could see who is voting for what. Just saying...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> I voted "excellent", but some folks find the orchestration sub-par.


As a bassoonist, i must say, i love the orchestration, esp the 2nd mvt...lovely bassoon solo lines with piano...really fun to play...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah the piece is actually perfectly orchestrated for the style (early romantic neo-hummelian post Fieldian) it adopts. Not liking the style is not an argument for bad orchestration. It’s an obvious masterpiece.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Love this piece. Best performances?

Argerich

Pollini

Zimerman with Guilini

Gilels


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Love that second movement. Perfection.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> I voted "excellent", but some folks find the orchestration sub-par.


That's because it is. Orchestration is difficult and Chopin never mastered it. The single trombone part tells you what you need to know. A lot of performances omit it. Balakirev, who loved the concerto, did a great job of re-orchestrating it while maintaining Chopin's sound, including the trombone part. A lot of conductors have a really tough time making the thing sound well. Ormandy with Ax did it as well as anyone. It's beautiful music to be sure.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I voted "good", maybe a bit strict, it's more between "good" and "very good" but there must be some space for the two dozen or more of piano concertos I think are superior. Nevertheless, I also think that the typical criticism (mediocre orchestration) is uninteresting and the not quite so typical (too longwinded and schematic in form) also doesn't matter much because the qualities of the piece (melody, mood, pianistic color, maybe such things as the bassoon solos) are unaffected by such small flaws. 

The charge of poor instrumentation in the case of very popular pieces (like these concertos or also Brahms' symphonies) often seems puzzling to me. Orchestration/instrumentation is really on the surface, it's there for everyone to hear and should directly impact the listener. It's not like counterpoint or formal procedures or whatever that may only become clear to expert analysis. So the charge is most of the time misguided or irrelevant (how could a piece that obviously sounds bad be so extremely popular?). 
The point about Chopin's piano concertos is obviously not the orchestration and the lackluster orchestration apparently does not hurt their popularity one bit.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I find it comical anyone thinks a Chopin piano concerto average or worse. He is only the greatest writer for piano in the history of music. So what if the orchestration wasn't Berlioz or Richard Strauss? The piano is the thing; the orchestra aids it -- just like with Mozart. No one has mentioned the greatest Chopin pianists ever -- Artur Rubinstein and Josef Hofmann. You'd go to the end of the earth to find much by Hofmann but anyone can find and hear Rubinstein's poetry anytime they like. There are two versions of the Concerto No. 1 by him on YouTube ... one upgraded in Japan so the left-hand part is heard better than it ever was on LP, CD or elsewhere. Take your pick.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I fully support the endorsements of Argerich, Rubinstein, and Ax. I will also add that Pires with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe did a fantastic job playing this piece.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted Very good . because I like his second just a bit more. Lots of great names made records .
Krystian Zimerman and Daniil Trifonov for now


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I rate this piece highly. A masterpiece. 

Rosina Lhevinne, John Barnett and National Orchestral Association is my preferred recording. Rosina was in her 80's and is a wonderful performer.


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## jiri.hruska2 (7 mo ago)

I discovered this concerto when I was like 10 years old and I still love it. My favourite performance is Artur Rubinstein, cond. Alfred Wallenstein.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

A wonderful work, the Chopin Piano Concerto No. 1. Heavenly.

This thread prompted me to see what I had on the shelves representing this work, and I found a dozen or so recordings, more than I expected, actually, including two with Rubinstein.

I turned to the Rubinstein and Skrowaczewski/New Symphony Orchestra of London (recorded 1961) for a visit to this sound world. I noticed nothing amiss in the orchestration. The accompaniment was superb, and Rubinstein's playing sounded faultless to my less than trained ears.

Just for kicks I returned to the work via the "legendary 1984 Moscow Concert" featuring a 14-year old Evgeny Kissin with the Moscow Philharmonic under the baton of Dmitri Kitaenko. I preferred the sound of the Rubinstein. (The pianist was what? 74 when he made that recording?!) But there was a joy in the Kissin performance, which might have just been my own appreciation of the talents of such a youngster.

I'm looking forward to revisiting my other recordings of this piece, including those featuring Van Cliburn, Martha Argerich, Gina Bachauer, Emil Gilels, Maurizio Pollini, İdil Biret, Alexis Weissenberg, Dinu Lipatti, and Sa Chen, among the fold. Which begs the question: Is there really a _bad_ recording of the Chopin Concerto No. 1?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Voted 'Not so good, not so bad', since I personally prefer the freer ongoings of the opus 21 piano concerto.

It might be of interest that Gulda (and at least one other pianist) recorded* Balakirev's revised version* of the concerto in 1954 with Boult, that provides quite a different listening experience, both as regards the piano and orchestral parts; it's one of my favourite recordings, available for example in a good Membran 10CD budget box, that contains a good deal of fine and interesting material. This was before Gulda generally became more ~subdued in his piano playing.















Have assembled a stack of recordings through the years:

_*CD Zimerman,PolFestO/dg 17cd 00289 477 8445* (not very interesting IMO)

*CD Kupiec,Skrowaczewski,SaarbrückenRSO/oehms 28cd oc090

CD Rubinstein,Barbirolli,LSO/rad ye mono 37-98 ry 10

CD Rubinstein,Barbirolli,LSO/membran 10cd 37-05 222913

cd Rubinstein,Barbirolli,LSO/membran 10cd 37-06 224043

LP Rubinstein,Barbirolli,LSO/angel 37-xx 60381

CD Rubinstein,Wallenstein,LAPO/ermitage 53-11 fab2211

cd Argerich,Dutoit,MontrSO/emi 4cd 50999 094031-2

CD Rosenthal,Weissmann,O/piano libr 31-99 pl 319

CD Paulacheva,Thrlik,CassPh/linz hnh 93 48102 *(bad)

*cd Gilels,Kondrashin,MosPO/brilliant 10cd 62 92615

cd Chopin/Balakirev: /Gulda,Boult,LPO/membran 10cd 233 021

LP Weissenberg,Skrowaczewski,ParConcO/emi 3lp cvb2081-83

cd Lipatti,Ackermann,TonhalleO/warner 7cd 50999 207318-2

LP Lipatti,Ackermann,TonhalleO/emi 48-xx c80934

LP Pollini,Kletzki,PO/emi 60 sxlp 30160

LP2 Cziffra,Rosenthal,ORTF/ph st 894004zky *(bad integration)

*LP Mewton-Wood,Goehr,NethPO/crowell collier guild mono rg127

LP Sokolov,Rowicki,MünchPO/euro 66 9283

LP Kilenyi, Prohaska,ØstrSO/remingt mono r-199-44 *(Steinweiss cover)

*LP Kilenyi,Mitropoulos,MinnesotaO/cbs mono rl 3028*_


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

I don't think the orchestration itself (which is serviceable, not great, but it does the job) is a deal-breaker for many people, it's the fact that Chopin most likely didn't orchestrate it himself, he payed someone to do it for him. That kind of conflicts with the idea that a romantic artist is a master of all aspects of his trade.
That said, I still voted "good" since the solo part is gorgeous and it's a miracle that a 20 year old could write something so forward-looking.


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