# Groundhog Day?



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

In some parts of the U.S. February 2 is a pagan holiday known as Groundhog Day, on which citizens worship members of the genus and species Marmota Monax and consult them as oracles. But more fundamentally, it is a celebration of mid-winter's day. Where you live is mid-winter's day acknowledged or celebrated? If so, in what way and under what terms is it known? 

Oh, I almost forgot: Happy Groundhog Day!


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Supposedly it saw its shadow today, 6 more weeks of winter.

I only remembered it was groundhog day when someone appropriately quipped on Facebook "So does anyone else out there feel like they're living through the same day over and over again?"


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Supposedly it saw its shadow today, 6 more weeks of winter.
> 
> I only remembered it was groundhog day when someone appropriately quipped on Facebook "So does anyone else out there feel like they're living through the same day over and over again?"


Haha, yes, I sometimes feel this way! I try to listen to different music every day, in order to relieve the monotony.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

It always sees its damned shadow! 

What put me in mind of this is that mid-summer's day is celebrated, along with Walpurgisnacht. Groundhog Day seems a poor counterbalance to the Witch's Sabbath. I figure some other culture has to have something better.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

well there was a time back 20 or so years ago in the westeren pa area(close to punxsutawney, pa)
when "phil" saw his shadowand it meant 6 more weeks of bad hockey!


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Is there a piece of music written about Groundhog Day? Do they have a Main Theme in the movie?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

pcnog11 said:


> Is there a piece of music written about Groundhog Day? Do they have a Main Theme in the movie?


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

For me when first awakening every day seems like Groundhog Day then gradually things seem to fall into place


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> Is there a piece of music written about Groundhog Day? Do they have a Main Theme in the movie?


I wrote a lyric, but no music as yet. I imagine it should be accompanied by guitar, bass, banjo and fiddle:

Ave Marmota Monax

The gloom of winter deepens 
And Christmas memories fade
No holidays to look forward to 
Till Jesus leaps from his cave
So let's break up the months of boredom
With a pagan midwinter's feast
And let's make the guest of honor
A weather-prescient beast

But where will we find such an oracle, 
Such a meteorological wizard?
For it can't be gross or slimy 
Like a mollusk or an eel or a lizard!
Do we want a bear or a lion
That could maim us or maul us or scratch?
No we want something smaller and dumber
That's groggy and easy to catch.

So rouse your groundhogs from their slumbers
Cattle prod them in their dumpers
Put them rodents on display
'Cause today is Groundhog Day

In a burrow or a log near you
Lives a Phil or a Woody or a Chuck
And if he snores the whole winter through
Our great nation will be out of luck
'Cause if Phil doesn't not see his shadow
Then there won't not be six weeks of snow
And instead of a balmy un-winter
The a$$-freezing blizzards will blow

So roust your groundhogs from their slumbers
Cattle prod them up their dumpers
Make them clever rodents pay
'Cause today is Groundhog Day


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

EdwardBast said:


> I wrote a lyric, but no music as yet. I imagine it should be accompanied by guitar, bass, banjo and fiddle:
> 
> Ave Marmota Monax
> 
> ...



With a little bit of reworking it would fit with "All things bright and beautiful" and not sure about Jesus leaping from his cave? maybe floating.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DPRK News Service: "Ground Hog" is disgusting rodent worshiped by primitive United States peoples in misguided belief that vermin have power of weather control.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/827224195880845312


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

In Aussieland we have Wallaby day.................. If the Wallaby comes out, then Wallaby Damned or Wallaby not.......... well I'll be damned...... get it :lol:


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

pcnog11 said:


> Is there a piece of music written about Groundhog Day? Do they have a Main Theme in the movie?


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> In Aussieland we have Wallaby day.................. If the Wallaby comes out, then Wallaby Damned or Wallaby not.......... well I'll be damned...... get it :lol:


We are a bit more sophisticated over the ditch mate, we have weather forecasters


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Dan Ante said:


> We are a bit more sophisticated over the ditch mate, we have weather forecasters


LOL don't you mean the Dutch, NZ translation of Ditch............


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Da e ya mein herring


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Here we celebrate Ground Hog's Day by commemorating the Tartu peace treaty, signed between Estonia and Soviet Russia to end Estonian's war of independence. The treaty stated that "Russia unreservedly recognises" the independence of Republic of Estonia de jure and renounced in perpetuity all rights to the territory of Estonia. 

Of course, that didn't work out all that well. 

(More to topic, "only" 6 more weeks of winter is very optimistic here.)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

2nd February is Candlemas in the church's calendar, which is a celebration of Christ's presentation in the temple but quite possibly linked to a Celtic festival, Imbolc, which celebrates the return of Spring. 1st February is St Bride's or St Bridget's day - a Christian saint whose legend includes hanging her cloak on a sunbeam with roots in a pagan goddess of light and life. The St Bridget's cross which decorates Irish homes on the saint's day is probably a sun symbol in origin:


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> 2nd February is Candlemas in the church's calendar, which is a celebration of Christ's presentation in the temple but quite possibly linked to a Celtic festival, Imbolc, which celebrates the return of Spring. 1st February is St Bride's or St Bridget's day - a Christian saint whose legend includes hanging her cloak on a sunbeam with roots in a pagan goddess of light and life. The St Bridget's cross which decorates Irish homes on the saint's day is probably a sun symbol in origin:


Thanks! That's the sort of thing I was looking for. The church had a habit of expropriating pagan holidays, which tend to happen on the eight principal "compass points" of the calendar (solstices, equinoxes and the half way betweens), like Christmas on the winter solstice.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> Thanks! That's the sort of thing I was looking for. The church had a habit of expropriating pagan holidays, which tend to happen on the eight principal "compass points" of the calendar (solstices, equinoxes and the half way betweens), like Christmas on the winter solstice.


It is very interesting that pagan and non-pagan holidays tend to happen on these eight principal events of the calendar. What other pagan holidays had you already identified?


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> It is very interesting that pagan and non-pagan holidays tend to happen on these eight principal events of the calendar.


It is a message left by Aliens many years ago and a guide to the lay lines. Long live Al Iens.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> Is there a piece of music written about Groundhog Day?


While I doubt that the composers had Groundhog Day in mind, any number of minimalist pieces would certainly qualify


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

Groundhog's Day is a joke here. I mean, perhaps it should always be seen as a joke... But around where I live it especially is because climatically winter itself is becoming barely existent as it is to begin with. The groundhog may have said six more weeks of winter, but I'd say we'd be lucky if Spring hasn't already passed and it's summer in six weeks.

Case and point: It got up in the mid 70s today.

I need to move. I can't take this anymore. I need four seasons.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

JosefinaHW said:


> It is very interesting that pagan and non-pagan holidays tend to happen on these eight principal events of the calendar. What other pagan holidays had you already identified?


I was aware that pagan holidays clustered around solstices and equinoxes. Easter derived from Ishtar, the Celtic Samhain (Festival of the lord of the Dead) corresponds to All Saints Day (mid autumn). With Christmas you can take your pick among various sun and moon gods born on the winter solstice. The Egyptian Goddess Isis gave birth to a son then. Walpurgisnacht for mid-summer's eve. In sum, nearly all of the Christian holidays were just laid over preexisting pagan festivals, even preserving many of the customs. The 40 days of Lent, easter bunnies, yuletide, etc. all have pagan origins.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Harmonie said:


> *Groundhog's Day is a joke here.* I mean, perhaps it should always be seen as a joke... But around where I live it especially is because climatically winter itself is becoming barely existent as it is to begin with. The groundhog may have said six more weeks of winter, but I'd say we'd be lucky if Spring hasn't already passed and it's summer in six weeks.
> 
> Case and point: It got up in the mid 70s today.
> 
> I need to move. I can't take this anymore. I need four seasons.


It's a joke everywhere, if a slightly less absurd one where winter exists!


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

1.


EdwardBast said:


> Thanks! *That's the sort of thing I was looking for. The church had a habit *of expropriating pagan holidays, which tend to happen on the eight principal "compass points" of the calendar (solstices, equinoxes and the half way betweens), like Christmas on the winter solstice.


_







Originally Posted by *JosefinaHW* 
It is very interesting that pagan and non-pagan holidays tend to happen on these eight principal events of the calendar. What other pagan holidays had you already identified?

_

I was aware that pagan holidays clustered around solstices and equinoxes. Easter derived from Ishtar, the Celtic Samhain (Festival of the lord of the Dead) corresponds to All Saints Day (mid autumn). With Christmas you can take your pick among various sun and moon gods born on the winter solstice. The Egyptian Goddess Isis gave birth to a son then. Walpurgisnacht for mid-summer's eve. In sum, nearly all of the Christian holidays were just laid over preexisting pagan festivals, even preserving many of the customs. The 40 days of Lent, easter bunnies, yuletide, etc. all have pagan origins.

2. My post was a rhetorical question. The moment I read your initial posts* I knew what you were looking for* as you replied to Ingelou. A *joke of a holiday* was used as an *opportunity to discredit* the Christian Churches and religions by supposedly demonstrating that critical days in their calendar were *only expropriated *and not true and unique events of these religions.

First, it is an *OPINION* that the fundamental reality and meaning of these holidays is pagan. Many Christians BELIEVE that the central meaning of Easter, Christmas, days of Lent, etc., were *prefigured* in these pagan holidays. A great more could be said regarding Easter as an eternal event were past, present and future all converge. HOWEVER, we all know that we don't discuss religion or proselytize for *OR AGAINST *religion in this section of the forum.

It *disturbs me greatly* that many/some TC members will get annoyed with me for supposedly trying to be a moderator or trying to ruin people's fun by repeatedly pointing out posts that effectively are the promotion of atheism and/or anti-religion position (behavior) but a statement was already made available for anyone to read and if I reported it and it was only deleted a counter-position was not also allowed to be made.

_







Originally Posted by *Harmonie* 
*Groundhog's Day is a joke here.* I mean, perhaps it should always be seen as a joke...

_

It's a joke everywhere, if a slightly less absurd one where winter exists!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Goodness gracious, history tell us that the Romans brought these "holidays" into the Christian Calendar for better or worst, get over it.......................


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

JosefinaHW said:


> 1.
> 
> _
> 
> ...


I wasn't looking for Christian holidays in particular. Just anything more weighty for midwinter's day than Groundhog Day. You'll notice I didn't mention Christian holidays at all for my first four posts. But I was surprised to hear that even midwinter's day was retooled by the RCC.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> I wasn't looking for Christian holidays in particular. Just anything more weighty for midwinter's day than Groundhog Day. You'll notice I didn't mention Christian holidays at all for my first four posts. But I was surprised to hear that even midwinter's day was retooled by the RCC.


The following is the text of your post that I received in my e-mail before you rewrote it.

I wonder how many people read it before you edited it:

"I wasn't looking for Christian holidays in particular. Just anything more interesting for midwinter's day than Groundhog Day. You'll notice I didn't mention Christian holidays at all for my first four posts. But you do know that the whole dying for sins, three-day dirt nap and resurrection thing was recycled too from several early mythologies, right?"

Again I am not here to proselytize for Christianity or any other religion, but so that anyone who has ready your efforts to proselytize for atheism and an anti-religion posture can see a counter-belief: I state again that some Christians believe that these pagan holidays and ancient myths prefigured the holidays celebrated by the Christian Churches or that in Eternity past, present and future converge so there is no retooling. I am not going to elaborate on this here: we only discuss this on TC in the groups.

*It is not necessary to be an atheist or a person who scorns religion to think for oneself.*

*To be entrusted with young minds or minds of any age* and to try and convert them into atheists and/or people who DETEST religion or to attempt to instill in them a worldview that can be devastating to their health and mental well-being or can cause them extraordinary, UNNECESSARY pain is not something I am going to sit back and just let happen. If it comes to the point where I am permanently banned from this forum, so be it. Someone else will take my place (and I don't mean me with a new account.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

This is my last post in this thread.

By no means am I going to try and finagle my way out of another infraction by trying to pull music into it, but one of the elements of _MacBeth_ (the drama) that I find very instructive and amazed at the way Shakespeare conveys it in the play, is that when we think and act in ways that are contrary to our nature--and the Elizabethan worldview was not an atheistic, relative worldview--the order of the world, our minds, our bodies fall apart--literally become in-sane. I am now going to watch the Royal Opera House, Simon Keenlyside production of Verdi's _MacBeth_ to see if and how Verdi conveys this idea.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

JosefinaHW said:


> The following is the text of your post that I received in my e-mail before you rewrote it.
> 
> *I wonder how many people read it before you edited it:
> *
> "I wasn't looking for Christian holidays in particular. Just anything more interesting for midwinter's day than Groundhog Day. You'll notice I didn't mention Christian holidays at all for my first four posts. But you do know that the whole dying for sins, three-day dirt nap and resurrection thing was recycled too from several early mythologies, right?"


Probably only you. Now that you have published it, a lot more no doubt.


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