# Mordent and Double Mordent passages



## Lukecash12

I've found in myself an alarming tendency to get tense wrists in these kinds of passages, and I'd like some advice from the other pianists here, especially our other resident piano teacher. Aime Moi by Alkan would be a good example to go off of, I think.


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## Lukecash12

So, no one has anything to say about Mordent passages?


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## Rasa

What passage specifically?


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## Lukecash12

I think it would just be easier for you if I pointed out what a mordent is, before we get into that. Here's wiki's decent little definition:



> In music, a mordent is an ornament indicating that the note is to be played with a single rapid alternation with the note above or below. Like trills, they can be chromatically modified by a small flat, sharp or natural accidental. The term comes from the Latin mordere, meaning "to bite."


In Alkan's Aime Moi, you're given passages to play in the LH that are streams of sixteenth notes in which you play a mordent, jump to another mordent, jump to another one, and so on. The first one of those passages for the LH starts at 3:34 in the video I referred to you.

An even better example would be from Czerny's "The Art of Finger Dexterity" Op. 740, Book 4, no 29. You'll find it on page 16 in this pdf document:

http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b0/IMSLP04065-ArtOfFingerDexterityCzernyOp740_Book4_.pdf

And here's the double mordent study from book 6, no 42. You'll find it on the first page:

http://216.129.110.22/files/imglnks/usimg/3/36/IMSLP04137-ArtOfFingerDexterityCzernyOp740_Book6_.pdf


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## Guest

Lukecash12, I always had the same problem with tense wrists myself and it has lead to RSI!! Bad teaching is a major problem - your teacher should tell you right from the jump what exercises to do for relaxing the wrist and also improving site reading. If this isn't happening change your teacher!! There's more to teaching than purely expressive elements, I feel. I had bad teaching and, as a result, have RSI and shocking site reading - despite finishing 7th Grade piano and theory!! I love the Alkan, BTW, and just bought a double CD of his works. Great piece you provided us, so lovely. Keep enjoying your music. Mordants? Perhaps practice some of the 2 or 3 Part Inventions of Bach slowly to get used to these.


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## Lukecash12

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Lukecash12, I always had the same problem with tense wrists myself and it has lead to RSI!! Bad teaching is a major problem - your teacher should tell you right from the jump what exercises to do for relaxing the wrist and also improving site reading. If this isn't happening change your teacher!! There's more to teaching than purely expressive elements, I feel. I had bad teaching and, as a result, have RSI and shocking site reading - despite finishing 7th Grade piano and theory!! I love the Alkan, BTW, and just bought a double CD of his works. Great piece you provided us, so lovely. Keep enjoying your music. Mordants? Perhaps practice some of the 2 or 3 Part Inventions of Bach slowly to get used to these.


I'm sorry, but I teach music nowadays, not the other way around. Maybe I'll ask about it in a masterclass, though.

As for the two and three part inventions, I learned all of those a long time ago. Alkan, Czerny, Feinberg, and Roslavet's double mordent passages are a "tad" more troublesome than Bach's inventions. But I do agree that composers like Bach and Froberger are excellent to visit, in order to get more comfortable with things like mordents. It would probably benefit me to work on something from Bach like one of his keyboard concertos.


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## Guest

Point taken about the Alkan (great isn't it!), Czerny (mmm, yes and no), Feinberg (don't know him) and Roslavet (also not known). You must be more than a competent musician to tackle these big daddies!! I'm afraid my playing was never more than mediocre, very sadly for me. But I blame my teachers for most of my technical limitations - they had a system for teaching and, hook or by crook, they stood by that. No such thing as tailoring to the needs of the individual student, no!! Unintelligent teaching I call it. They wanted my money and because I was already 35 when I started they expected no real progress through the exam system - wrong, as I passed 7th Grade piano and musicianship and went on to complete university musicology studies by the time I was 42. And it was Distinction grade average every year.


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## Lukecash12

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Point taken about the Alkan (great isn't it!), Czerny (mmm, yes and no), Feinberg (don't know him) and Roslavet (also not known). You must be more than a competent musician to tackle these big daddies!! I'm afraid my playing was never more than mediocre, very sadly for me. But I blame my teachers for most of my technical limitations - they had a system for teaching and, hook or by crook, they stood by that. No such thing as tailoring to the needs of the individual student, no!! Unintelligent teaching I call it. They wanted my money and because I was already 35 when I started they expected no real progress through the exam system - wrong, as I passed 7th Grade piano and musicianship and went on to complete university musicology studies by the time I was 42. And it was Distinction grade average every year.


That's rubbish. The grading system deal is more popular in America, but it's idea of progression doesn't really reflect the more prominent pedagogues. You want to play like Richter? Can't do it with the grading system. It's a clumsy conception of repertoire and progression that shouldn't have gained as much traction as it did (no offense to anyone who uses it, because there are good teachers who use it, and use it well).


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