# The Talk Classical Community's Least Favorite and Most Hated Works



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

There are pieces we love, pieces we like, pieces we tolerate, pieces we dislike, and pieces we would have no choice but to "Saint-Saens @ _The Rite of Spring_": *storm the hell out of the concert hall in disgust rather than endure the torture. *This thread is for the latter category.

Are there any pieces you vitriolically despise?

And now to shock everyone: The only piece I can say that I categorically hate comes from Wagner: the Bridal Chorus from Lohengrin. If you're going to be cliche at your wedding, at least get the Canon in D processional with the Mendelssohn recessional. Both beautiful even after the 1000th listen. Why would anybody want to get married to "here comes the bride, big fat and wide", especially when in the context of the opera it foreshadows a doomed relationship? Just say no.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, PC 1, Symphony 4, 1812 Overture
Finale of Mendelssohn Violin Concerto
Brahms Double Concerto
Fanfare for the Common Man
Elgar’s marches
Schumann’s symphonies
Satie
Scriabin
Britten Cello Symphony
All minimalist music

Alright, that was a surprisingly long list. Absolutely no offense intended to anyone who likes any of these (and I know I’m in the majority for most of them!). I just don’t gain an iota of enjoyment from any of them.


----------



## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I don't think I have a "most hated". Now there's a load of pretentious artsy-fartsy noise since about 1970 that I could name, but other than that not much. There are more "classic" works I like better than others though. I can't think of anything though that I just can't tolerate.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

It seems like only yesterday....



science said:


> I have this Beatles Bossa Nova thing. A gift from a friend. If I'd found it on the street I wouldn't've picked it up, but since it was a gift...
> 
> Edit: Come to think of it, I have a Korean jazz CD - now I have several of those, and mostly they're not bad, but this particular CD is horrible, the sappiest sappiest sweetest most saccharine disgusting cloying sickening horrible music I've ever heard. It's like a quadruple dose of valium on a sunny day in happy lucky land, and it makes me angry.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
Mendelssohn - Octet
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto
Hanson
Mozetich
Lloyd

Not hate - more like avoid whenever possible.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Avoid is indeed far better than hate.

Two famous ones:

Handel - Messiah
Beethoven - Symphony 9

There are more, but I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

My position on the premise of this thread is that if you overlisten to a beautiful piece of music, that's your fault.

Repetitive and bland baroque and classical era pieces do get on my nerves, but if I don't like them, nobody forces me to listen to them, so every encounter is avoidable to a certain extent.

Wait: I know what I hate. I hate music that is somewhat like what I like, but violates my expectations in lame ways (bad melody, horrible transitions, obnoxious percussion added, quoting something I like but creating an inferior version of the original) John Powell's music is basically that to me. Both his concert pieces and films.

But ultimately at fault is always overhyping certain music by other people, which creates an expectation of goodies that gets sorely disappointed.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Can't say I hate anything, really. As with all the composers I like I prefer some works to others and thankfully I've never got to the point where (over)familiarity has bred contempt due to excessive listening, although I admit that sometimes it got a bit close. I simply avoid those composers, categories or eras which I'm not fond of or interested in.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, PC 1, Symphony 4, 1812 Overture
> Finale of Mendelssohn Violin Concerto
> Brahms Double Concerto
> Fanfare for the Common Man
> ...


You are definitely _not_ in the majority for any of them except maybe Elgar's marches and the 1812 Overture.

On topic, I can't say I really hate anything that I've heard in classical music. Sometimes I'll hear something and think I hate it, and hear it again and start to really appreciate it.

Edit: OK, I hate the Elgar marches and 1812 Overture too. & Wellington's Victory.


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Off the top of my head...Carmina B urana...Dont know why, it is very powerul, but perhaps because its overused...


----------



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

1812 Overture 
Don’t hate it just never want to listen to it


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

An ''ode 2 joy'' as well...Perhaps 4 the same reason...I actually like both these worx but when u hear sometrhing EVERYWHERE u develop an aversion 2 it.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> You are definitely _not_ in the majority for any of them except maybe Elgar's marches and the 1812 Overture.
> 
> On topic, I can't say I really hate anything that I've heard in classical music. Sometimes I'll hear something and think I hate it, and hear it again and start to really appreciate it.
> 
> Edit: OK, I hate the Elgar marches and 1812 Overture too. & Wellington's Victory.


Ha, I meant _minority_. Late night posting is not good for me.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I like the 1812 Overture. It's for folks who don't tend to like Tchaikovsky's music.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I don't think I actually hate any piece of classical music, but at the moment at least I consider works such as Cage's _4'33"_ or Stockhausen's _Helicopter_ quartet to be excesses of our era.

This said, there was *a game on most disliked compositions* here on TC one year ago. Here are the ten "winners":

1. Beethoven - Wellington's Victory, op. 91;
2. Beethoven - Für Elise;
3. Tchaikovsky - Symphony no. 6 "Pathetique";
4. Mozart - Eine kleine Nachtmusik (A Little Night Music);
5. Cage - 4'33";
6. Mozart - Don Giovanni;
7. Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto no. 1;
8. Stockhausen - Helikopter-Streichquartett;
8. Schoenberg - Pierrot Lunaire;
10. Verdi - Aida.

I tried to save masterpieces such as _Aida_, _Don Giovanni_ and the _Pathetique_ symphony from this "honor" but failed.


----------



## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Aside from the Scottish Symphony and the Octet, anything else by Mendelssohn. I have been listening to complete cycles of the symphonies to try and understand his appeal.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Wellington's Victory, in a heartbeat.


----------



## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Gray Bean said:


> Aside from the Scottish Symphony and the Octet, anything else by Mendelssohn. I have been listening to complete cycles of the symphonies to try and understand his appeal.


Do you like vocal music and solo piano? You don't have to like Mendelssohn's symphonies (although I do) to enjoy his oratorio _Elias_ and/or his _Songs without Words_. I got into Mendelssohn first through these and then later started liking his symphonies FWIW.


----------



## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Well there are definitely some things that are terribly overplayed. I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing Für Elise, Eine kleine Nachtmusik or K. 545 ever again. The first movement of Mozart's 40th symphony and Beethoven's entire 5th and 6th and the ubiquitous "Moonlight" are approaching that category as well. It's not that these are bad pieces, it's just that they've been run into the ground. Even Bach's Chaconne played on everything from mandolins to partly-filled pop bottles is getting there.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Bulldog said:


> Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
> Mendelssohn - Octet
> Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
> Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto
> ...


What? The Mendelssohn Concerto? And the two great Tchaikovsky Concertos. too? Not to mention Howard Hanson. You_ do_ mean _Howard_ Hanson, who wrote the Symphony No. 2 "Romantic", my favorite symphony, don't you? Alas ….

Is there any way for the Talk Classical community to send someone back to the pound?








Not me, not me, please. I _do_ like the 1812 Overture!


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Allerius said:


> I don't think I actually hate any piece of classical music, but at the moment at least I consider works such as Cage's _4'33"_ or Stockhausen's _"Helicopter" quartet_ to be excesses of our era.


Perhaps a helicopter _is_ an excess, but the 4'33"? That's like … totally _nonexcessive_! Maybe you would prefer the "Helicopter" quartet if the helicopter never turned on its engine and started its rotor. But then, that would be a bit like Cage's 4'33"! Alas … no way out.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> What? The Mendelssohn Concerto? And the two great Tchaikovsky Concertos. too? Not to mention Howard Hanson. You_ do_ mean _Howard_ Hanson, who wrote the Symphony No. 2 "Romantic", my favorite symphony, don't you? Alas ….
> 
> Is there any way for the Talk Classical community to send someone back to the pound?


I'll be here on TC forever pointing out that those 3 great concertos are overdosed on syrup and that Hanson's symphony doesn't rise to the level of greatness.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I _do_ get the "runs" when I hear Strauss's "Till Eulenspiegel" start to play.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Bulldog said:


> I'll be here on TC forever pointing out that those 3 great concertos are overdosed on syrup and that Hanson's symphony doesn't rise to the level of greatness.


My three least favorite concerti too


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

SONNET CLV said:


> Perhaps a helicopter _is_ an excess, but the 4'33"? That's like … totally _nonexcessive_! Maybe you would prefer the "Helicopter" quartet if the helicopter never turned on its engine and started its rotor. But then, that would be a bit like Cage's 4'33"! Alas … no way out.


I meant in terms of conception. I think that these two works are very radical (for me at the moment, _too_ radical) in their approaches trying to find a way to go out-of-the-box of the music of their (our) time. Being _different_ not necessarily is being _good_ for me.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> I'll be here on TC forever pointing out that those 3 great concertos are overdosed on syrup and that Hanson's symphony doesn't rise to the level of greatness.


...and I'll be here on TC forever giving points to them in your games. :devil:


----------



## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

SONNET CLV said:


> I _do_ get the "runs" when I hear Strauss's "Till Eulenspiegel" start to play.


Those _Streiche_ are just too _lustig_ for you, I guess.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> My three least favorite concerti too


Whereas two of the three get a rare 6/6 rating from me. Isn't it funny how our tastes can overlap in some parts and can be completely opposite in others?


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Allerius said:


> ...and I'll be here on TC forever giving points to them in your games. :devil:


Sometimes I miss those earlier games from a few years ago where negative points were allowed.


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> I'll be here on TC forever pointing out that those 3 great concertos are overdosed on syrup and that Hanson's symphony doesn't rise to the level of greatness.


And many of us will just go right on ignoring your position, because we don't share it.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

JAS said:


> And many of us will just go right on ignoring your position, because we don't share it.


Instead of ignoring it, you respond to it.

I don't believe you and I have met. What is your position?


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Instead of ignoring it, you respond to it.
> 
> I don't believe you and I have met. What is your position?


I responded to your post. I place no value in your position, and you need not place any in mine. That is the beauty of opinions.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

JAS said:


> I responded to your post. I place no value in your position, and you need not place any in mine. That is the beauty of opinions.


There are likely some musical positions that we share. Perhaps future postings and threads will reveal them.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

> 1. Beethoven - Wellington's Victory, op. 91;
> 2. Beethoven - Für Elise;
> 3. Tchaikovsky - Symphony no. 6 "Pathetique";
> 4. Mozart - Eine kleine Nachtmusik (A Little Night Music);
> ...


These top 10 most disliked works are interesting. I personally am floored that Tchaikovsky's 6th is on there rather than the 1812 Overture; I was of the impression that even Tchaikovsky detractors (like me for the most part) have to admit it's an impressive achievement (it's certainly in my top 10 symphonies). I can see newcomers getting real confused by the fact that it's on the seventh tier of our most recommended works but is also our third most disliked work:lol: Oh well, at least the "disliked" list is not displayed prominently on the site. Also surprised to see Don Giovanni and Pierrot Lunaire on there, and shocked that Bolero is missing (I figured that it was universally lampooned by "serious" listeners even though it was one of the first pieces of orchestral music that I heard and loved).


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> There are likely some musical positions that we share. Perhaps future postings and threads will reveal them.


I meant only those stated in your post.


----------



## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I don't 'hate' any classical music. There's a lot I don't listen to (more than once), mostly contemporary works with no discernable form or harmony, but I don't hate them. Seems like an inappropriate word to apply to music, in my opinion.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

D Smith said:


> I don't 'hate' any classical music. There's a lot I don't listen to (more than once), mostly contemporary works with no discernable form or harmony, but I don't hate them. Seems like an inappropriate word to apply to music, in my opinion.


Certain kinds of music that make apology for violence, prostitution and crime deserve to be hated in my opinion, but I agree, not classical.


----------



## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> There are likely some musical positions that we share. Perhaps future postings and threads will reveal them.


Reading my post again this morning, I can see how it was taken quite differently than it was intended. It was meant as a strong response in disagreement to a post that was making an equally strong statement against works of which I, and many others, think of far more highly than you do. No broader accusations are intended.


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, PC 1, Symphony 4, 1812 Overture
> Finale of Mendelssohn Violin Concerto
> Brahms Double Concerto
> Fanfare for the Common Man
> ...


Ok, the OP asked for your least favorite and most hated works and you included Satie and Scriabin? So, their entire oeuvres make your list of least favorite and most hated works?


----------



## brford66 (May 17, 2020)

The opening is one of my favourite pieces then once it kicks in i tend to wander off


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> These top 10 most disliked works are interesting. I personally am floored that Tchaikovsky's 6th is on there rather than the 1812 Overture; Also surprised to see Don Giovanni and Pierrot Lunaire on there, and shocked that Bolero is missing


The results of these games are decided by very few people who participate extremely regularly. People with queer preferences, such as SixFootScowl, who says he dislikes a lot of pre-Romantic music. I don't deny I also have queer preferences. (At least I don't show my "rankings" and pretend like other people should care.) And those games are boring to spend time on. (Sorry, Mr. Bulldog) They seem like an endless race to see who's more obsessed with adding numbers. All just numbers, without explanation why you appreciate, admire, or like.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

gregorx said:


> Ok, the OP asked for your least favorite and most hated works and you included Satie and Scriabin? So, their entire oeuvres make your list of least favorite and most hated works?


Sadly yes, at least what I've heard. Once I hear, say, 5 works from a single composer that I have an extreme negative reaction to I tend to generalize, but I know that's not what I should do. I keep trying and trying. Someday I'm sure it will click. Honestly, my inability to appreciate the music frustrates me. I've had several "revelatory" moments with many works I previously disliked, so I'm still patiently waiting for the day that Satie and Scriabin make any sort of sense to me.


----------



## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Allerius said:


> 1. Beethoven - Wellington's Victory, op. 91;
> 2. Beethoven - Für Elise;
> 3. Tchaikovsky - Symphony no. 6 "Pathetique";
> 4. Mozart - Eine kleine Nachtmusik (A Little Night Music);
> ...


Funny. Except for _Wellington's Victory_ and perhaps _Für Elise_, all of these are generally considered to be masterpieces.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Sadly yes, at least what I've heard. Once I hear, say, 5 works from a single composer that I have an extreme negative reaction to I tend to generalize, but I know that's not what I should do. I keep trying and trying. Someday I'm sure it will click. Honestly, my inability to appreciate the music frustrates me. I've had several "revelatory" moments with many works I previously disliked, so I'm still patiently waiting for the day that Satie and Scriabin make any sort of sense to me.


What is it about Satie that doesn't make sense? I'm pretty sure making accessible and sensible music was his _raison d'etre_...


----------



## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Simplicissimus said:


> Do you like vocal music and solo piano? You don't have to like Mendelssohn's symphonies (although I do) to enjoy his oratorio _Elias_ and/or his _Songs without Words_. I got into Mendelssohn first through these and then later started liking his symphonies FWIW.


I'll look into those. Thanks for the tip! And I really do adore the Octet and the Scottish.


----------



## brford66 (May 17, 2020)

Same here,it's not terribly difficult to avoid music you don't like


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Couchie said:


> What is it about Satie that doesn't make sense? I'm pretty sure making accessible and sensible music was his _raison d'etre_...


I guess the simplicity is what repels me. It just sounds like elevator/ambient music to me. I'm a natural overthinker so when things are so simple, I'm always left wanting something more.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> And those games are boring to spend time on. (Sorry, Mr. Bulldog)


They sure are, and I have to spend time on all of them. :lol:


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> They sure are, and I have to spend time on all of them. :lol:


Well, to me at least they are very useful as they work as an incentive for me to discover new music. My discovery of Baroque opera for example was totally due to the games, as I don't think that alone I would have had the initiative to look for them in my holidays one or two years ago. From the new games, I particularly liked the way how the members have to post some "tasters" for the names they suggest in the game series of initials for example, as in this way I have the chance of exploring music from names previously unknown to me and with recommendations of interesting works. I think that it was a very interesting and well-thought idea.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Allerius said:


> I don't think I actually hate any piece of classical music, but at the moment at least I consider works such as Cage's _4'33"_ or Stockhausen's _Helicopter_ quartet to be excesses of our era.
> 
> This said, there was *a game on most disliked compositions* here on TC one year ago. Here are the ten "winners":
> 
> 1. Beethoven - Wellington's Victory, op. 91;


I hadn't ever heard *Wellington's Victory*, nor had I even heard _*of*_ it, until this year.

OMG. What a load of crap.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

pianozach said:


> I hadn't ever heard *Wellington's Victory*, nor had I even heard _*of*_ it, until this year.
> 
> OMG. What a load of crap.


Bearing in mind that it was dedicated to that corpulent mass of uselessness otherwise known as the Prince Regent it is perhaps appropriate that _Wellington's Victory_ was an inferior work.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Vivaldi, Philip Glass


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Bearing in mind that it was dedicated to that corpulent mass of uselessness otherwise known as the Prince Regent it is perhaps appropriate that _Wellington's Victory_ was an inferior work.


"Anything I $hit is better than anything you can ever think up!"


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

consuono said:


> Well there are definitely some things that are terribly overplayed. I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing Für Elise, Eine kleine Nachtmusik or K. 545 ever again. The first movement of Mozart's 40th symphony and Beethoven's entire 5th and 6th and the ubiquitous "Moonlight" are approaching that category as well. It's not that these are bad pieces, it's just that they've been run into the ground. Even Bach's Chaconne played on everything from mandolins to partly-filled pop bottles is getting there.


Dvorak Symphony 9, too.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Allerius said:


> I don't think I actually hate any piece of classical music, but at the moment at least I consider works such as Cage's _4'33"_ or Stockhausen's _Helicopter_ quartet to be excesses of our era.
> 
> This said, there was *a game on most disliked compositions* here on TC one year ago. Here are the ten "winners":
> 
> ...


Hey, I like the Helicopter String Quartet! Not to mention Don Giovanni.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> I hadn't ever heard *Wellington's Victory*, nor had I even heard _*of*_ it, until this year.
> 
> OMG. What a load of crap.





elgars ghost said:


> Bearing in mind that it was dedicated to that corpulent mass of uselessness otherwise known as the Prince Regent it is perhaps appropriate that _Wellington's Victory_ was an inferior work.


Perhaps it was *Beethoven*'s version of satire or parody.

If one listens to it as one might listen to *PDQ Bach, Allen Sherman, Weird Al* or *Spike Jones*, it may actually be a work of comedic brilliance.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> Well there are definitely some things that are terribly overplayed. I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing Für Elise, Eine kleine Nachtmusik or K. 545 ever again. The first movement of Mozart's 40th symphony and Beethoven's entire 5th and 6th and the ubiquitous "Moonlight" are approaching that category as well. It's not that these are bad pieces, it's just that they've been run into the ground. Even Bach's Chaconne played on everything from mandolins to partly-filled pop bottles is getting there.


I've never sympathized with some classical music listeners' hatred for "Best Hits of classical music". Just because something is played often, it doesn't mean you have to hear it often: you don't have to click those youtube videos of "Best Hits" with billions of views. Nobody forces you to. Recently, I listened to Bach's orchestral suite in D major BWV1068 and the nostalgia of the Air still moved me. Likewise, I also still enjoy Pachelbel's canon, the middle section of Für Elise, the subsequent movements of Eine kleine Nachtmusik. There is this "elitist" mindset among hardcore classical music enthusiasts, to think negatively of anything that's "too popular" or overplayed. The fact that these works are overplayed shouldn't affected your judgment on their quality. There is a lot of music around the world far more over-played than these.


----------



## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't mind if pieces are overplayed. It has no effect on my esteem or non-esteem for them.

I do understand though that one can get fatigued about a certain piece when it is over-listened. But if the radio, television, YouTube, Deutsche Grammophon, or any other medium (over)plays certain pieces again and again, why should I force myself to (over)listen to them again and again, too?
So, I don't really get the 'overplayed' argument, to be honest.

I listen to some of the popular tunes very rarely, but I still consider Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Händel's Messiah, Mozart's KV 550, Beethoven's symphonies 5 & 6 and Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto as masterpieces. I guess that they are 'overplayed' because so many people consider them as masterpieces, too.
The slight problem might be, that some of these pieces are played too often, at the cost of other great works. But to me, that's not the 'fault' of the overplayed compositions, but of those who decide about the programming.

On topic, as an example: I remember a colleague who adored Mahler, and I said I liked him, too. He then adviced me to listen to Karl Jenkins, because, he assured me, Jenkins was the Mahler of our time. 
Well, that was a huge disappointment. I tried to listen to some of his music, but I felt it was overplayed very quickly, so I stopped (over)listening to it very quickly, too.
After that, I retried a couple of times, to no avail. I won't say I hate it, but so far this music made me want to switch off the audio as soon as possible.

That's all… for the moment.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Wellington's Victory, in a heartbeat.





pianozach said:


> I hadn't ever heard *Wellington's Victory*, nor had I even heard _*of*_ it, until this year. OMG. What a load of crap.


Ok, but people can perceive things differently. As long as there are people seeing value and purpose in the artistry. I don't think there's necessarily much point in calling stuff like that "objectively bad". Long ago, I read a review written by someone that the piece is exciting to hear accompanied by cannon fire.

Speaking of Beethoven's "controversial" works: There are some "issues" I personally have with the 9th symphony finale and the variations of Op.111 piano sonata. I think of "Seid umschlungen millionen" as the most magnificent moment and most appropriate as the climax for the 9th symphony finale, but the subsequent parts (after "Seid umschlungen millionen") remind me of certain parts of Ruins of Athens Op.113 in aesthetic elements. I kind of wish the movement ended with "Seid umschlungen millionen". 
As for the variations of Op.111 piano sonata, although I appreciate the dreaminess of the final bars of the movement, I think Beethoven takes a bit long to "get there". And in the process, it reminds me of Fantasie Op.77 in aesthetics. One of those moments in Beethoven that makes me want to say: "Ok, that's enough."
Perhaps Fantasie Op.77, Ruins of Athens Op.113 "ruined" my perception of the Beethovenian aesthetics. Or Perhaps I'm just not hearing Beethoven as other people do (people who don't hear the aesthetic elements of Op.77, Op.113 in Op.111, Op.125, or do hear, but don't have issues with the aesthetics).


----------

