# Photography or not?



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Some time ago we had little dispute about putative photography of Ludwig Van which eventually turned out to be photography of portrait of Ludwig Van. I have similiar riddle this time.

I think some recall this portrait of Wagner from my previous avatar:










It seem to have a lot of various versions, like:










Don't say it, I know this one looks like a pimp of Valkyries.

Anyway. This one is what disturbs me:










It really looks like authenic photo for me. Is it real or it's just another photography of portrait of composer?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

It kind of looks like a photo to me too. There are things about it an artist might not do, like the ruggedness of the upper bridge of the nose compared to the two previous pictures. It's hard to tell though, especially with his hair more combed than I'm used to seeing.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I think the third item above is the real thing, looks like a photo. Paintings/illustrations look like paintings, which the top two items are.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I think the third one is the photo, while the second is probably an engraving and the first is a painting, based on the photograph.

I suppose they couldn't make copies of photos in those days so engravings would be a good method of spreading his likeness around.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

I think you will find that this outfit is behind it all:

*http://www.wagnerportraitgroup.com/wpg_site_2008/pages/index.php*

(Not really--I googled "Wagner photos" and that's the first hit I got. )


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Photography was in wide use in the 1850s, by which time Wagner would have been forty. In the picture shown he looks older than that. So it could be a photograph, but that doesn't mean it is.

It's surprising what poor copies the painting and etching are.


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## Nicola (Nov 25, 2007)

I would guess that the third picture is derived from the first by use of a filter in Photoshop. 

I downloaded picture number 1 and converted it using the "halftone pattern" filter with settings size = 1, contrast = 3, pattern = dot, and it came out pretty close to picture number 3 (i.e. a bit washed-out looking with a slightly dotty background.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

The ears and nose are not remotely similar.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Riddle is solved - it's real photo, taken in Paris, 1867:


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Hmm, Paris? No wonder... The placement of hands is very curious - he's like Napoleon multiplied times two and a half. Future Hitler perhaps?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> he's like Napoleon multiplied times two and a half.


If you're used to romantic period photos, there is nothing strange in this placement. Likes od Delacroix loved to put one of their hands under the coat in "napoleonic" manner. I'm cultivating this tradition myself.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Reaching for his gun


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Yes, but I was talking mainly about his other hand.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

* Reaching for his gun is about right.  *


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Looks rather like Woody Harrelson with a bag of ice on his head if you ask me...


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