# Favorite Beethoven Sonata -- mine opus 111



## PianoCoach

My favorite sonata happens to be Beethoven's last.

Only two movements. Beethoven ..... the greater the tension, the greater the resolution. The first movement is tension. The second is resolution. Many have suggested over the years that the first movement represents earthly struggle and the second movement is heavenly reward. I like that analysis; I hear it in the music.

Some have referred to the second movement (Arietta) as "Boogie Woogie Beethoven". In the third and fourth variations, you can hear jazz ..... long before Gershwin.

If you haven't heard this spectacular work, I recommend you hear it. It was one of my life's greatest first experiences. In his final piano sonata (which was his instrument), Beethoven leaves us with a clear definition of his musical philosophy. Brilliant. 

What's your favorite sonata?


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## Olias

I'm currently working through a Teaching Company lecture series on all 32 LvB Piano Sonatas. I haven't heard all of them as of yet but I'm partial to the "Waldstein" and "Appassionata". I know its a bit cliche' to like the ones with nicknames but they are popular for a reason.


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## Lipatti

It's so difficult to choose just one in particular among so many that are equally fantastic, but right now I'll go with Op 109. For that beautiful, philosophic last movement and the perfect build-up to it. But Op 111 could also very easily take the top spot.

Now that I have recently purchased the Kempff box set I like to indulge myself with at least one daily Beethoven-sonata


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## charismajc

Awesome choice, Pianocoach!

I've said elsewhere that op 111 is perhaps my favorite piece of music, and of course my favorite LvB sonata. I really believe the whole dichotomy of earthly struggle and heavenly, cosmic release in the 2 movements. I love everything about the arietta. I love how he turns a simple, melancholic theme into something almost divine and extremely hopeful at the end. I love all the trills at the end - reminds me of one of the later goldberg variations. I just love the whole range of emotions he explores in one movement.

The only thing I don't like about op 111 is how insanely difficult it is to play, even badly.

I notice a lot of interpretive differences among different pianists for this work in particular. I like schiff, pollini and brendel. 

Other top choices for me would be 109, appassionata, waldstein, hammerklavier, pathetique, 28.


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## charismajc

Btw, there's a recent thread ranking beethoven's piano sonatas. Great fun and informative reading. I'm sure you'd be interested to know where op 111 placed (won't ruin it for you)


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## Sebastien Melmoth

I might pick the great Hammerklavier (Bb, Op. 108)--but _only_ in *Glenn Gould's reading*.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Pia...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1291084668&sr=1-1


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## Webernite

As much as I love Glenn Gould, I feel I have to point out that there are excellent readings of the work by Claudio Arrau, Emil Gilels, Charles Rosen and many others, as well as a truly heroic one by Sviatoslav Richter, live. You shouldn't overlook those!


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## Air

Webernite said:


> truly heroic one by Sviatoslav Richter, live.


The Richter Leipzig reading of the op. 111 is also one of my favorites (ranking with the likes of Yudina, A.Fischer, Arrau, and Michelangeli).


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Webernite said:


> _There are excellent readings of the work by Arrau, Gilels, and Richter, live._


You'd be hard pressed to find a Richter recording that's _not_ live, as he required an audience.

Also you forgot Kempff, whose recording of the Hammerklavier I also have.

The thing about GG's performance is that he downplays and smooths out the shocking dymanics of movement I, while expanding and clarifying movements II & III.

I'd also choose Gould for Opp. 109-11
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-No-30/dp/B000UH8HQ2/ref=cm_lmf_tit_2


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## Webernite

Well, true, the great majority of Richter's recordings are live. But there are a _few_ that aren't.


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## Manxfeeder

Since you asked for "sonata," my kneejerk favorite is Opus 109. Of course, my other kneejerk is the Hammerklavier.


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## PianoCoach

Thanks everyone for input of pianists. I love Brendel's interpretation of Beethoven the most. But Opus 111 ..... listen to Friedrich Gulda. His jazz interests meet his classical talent perfectly in this piece. Especially the 2nd movement 5th variation.


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## Manxfeeder

PianoCoach said:


> But Opus 111 ..... listen to Friedrich Gulda. His jazz interests meet his classical talent perfectly in this piece. Especially the 2nd movement 5th variation.


That looks interesting. There's no clips on YouTube of him playing it. Rats.


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## Vaneyes

Waldstein.

Re the relatively early Gould and the last three. Bad interps and an odd-sounding piano. These should have been rethought and redone. Probably his worst LvB output.


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## PianoCoach

Re the relatively early Gould and the last three. Bad interps and an odd-sounding piano. These should have been rethought and redone. Probably his worst LvB output.

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I don't want to offend. Gould, in my opinion, is probably the best Bach pianist since recorded music. But, to me, he is much too mechanical for Beethoven. His famous recording of Mozart Sonata in C Maj, K545 is not the lyrical style that Mozart would have wanted. I think it's awful. Bach on the other hand ...... outstanding. The best!


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## Webernite

I have to disagree. His interpretations vary greatly. They're not all mechanical, and this becomes especially clear if you listen to his live recordings from the 50s. When he does play mechanically, it's usually deliberate. And he was no stranger to Beethoven - he played the piano concertos more than 100 times during his career and the sonatas featured in nearly every concert he ever gave. I think these recordings (the first and third are live) come off fairly well:
















This one _is_ mechanical, but so much fun:


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## missbeethoven

I LOVE his first sonata. I'm currently memorizing it. But I also love his 5th piano sonata.


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## PianoCoach

I LOVE his first sonata. I'm currently memorizing it. But I also love his 5th piano sonata.

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You must also love Mozart then. Before I heard all 32 of the sonatas, I could not tell the difference between his earliest sonata's and Mozart. That makes sense because that was the standard at the time. But after hearing all 32, I could definitely hear Beethoven waiting to burst in his early sonatas.


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## starry

Add me to those who mentioned Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 30 in E major, Op. 109.


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## claroche

For me, it's the Hammerklavier, followed by the Waldstein, Appassionata, and then perhaps some of the early sonatas (Nos. 1 to say 15). On the Hammerklavier, a more recent recording by Anton Kuerti takes top prize (it's on a CD with the 28th). Kuerti's earlier (from the 1970s) cycle is excellent, but the 29th is not as good. In general, I like Brendel's approach to the whole set on Sonatas.


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## UberB

Mine is definitely the Appassionata. I like Arrau's interpretation the best, closely followed by Gilels. Richter's interpretation of the third movement is much too fast. The tempo is Allegro ma non troppo (fast but not too fast) and some parts of the piece become too bland when you play it at too fast of a speed imo.


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## Edward Elgar

I love the first and fifth too! How are you getting on with the left hand in the last mtv. of the first? The fifth is slightly easier to learn in my opinion, although the difficulty comes once again in the last mvt.

I'd say my favorite was Hammerklavier. Listen around bar 80 of the third movement and you'll hear the theme to Brahms' 4th Symphony!


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## Legato

Yes, opus 111 is mine too, especially when played by Richter, as a young man, or as a much older one.


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## Couchie

Though i've been 'obsessed' with all of the named ones at some point in time, my staying favourites are the fugey ones: hammerklavier and 110.


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## solkorset

Nobody has mentioned MY favourite so far. If it's possible to have a favourite among 32 masterpieces. Let me quote what I wrote about it in another thread:

But today one that enchants me with supernatural powers: No. 27 in E minor, Op. 90. I listened to it three or four times today in its entirety, and many more times partially with a long range of different pianists. I have been searching in vain for the perfect interpretation. 

First I listened to Dieter Zechlin but was disappointed. Then tried Andreas Haefliger and was again discontented. Timothy Ehlen proved useless. Louis Lortie was rather good as usual, but still something missing here. I went on: Michael Houstoun went amiss at the very start. Alfred Brendel: The best so far but considerably short of ideal. Walter Gieseking: No no. Andrew Rangell: No, wrong tempo and rythm. Peter Serkin: Laughable. Robert Benz: Today's surprise; clearly the best so far and not at all bad, artistically rather convincing, but he too falls short of what I'm craving.

I don't give up. No 27 is very special and must be played by a god. I will be trying Gerard Willems and Anton Kuerti and Emil Gilels and Gerhard Oppitz in the coming days, but am not too optimistic. I was unable to find a Wilhelm Kempff recording of this one. Can anyone help me out?


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## kv466

Nope...will never be able to pick out one favorite out of what are arguably my favorite pieces...right now I am rekindling a love affair with the e flat sonata no. 13


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## jfmurray

Favorite - Waldstein Op 53.

The Andras Schiff lecture series is even better than the Teaching Company one - 
http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/page/0,,1943867,00.html


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## TrazomGangflow

My favorite Beethoven sonata and favorite piano sonata of all time is the 21st sonata op. 53. I especially love the 1st and 3rd movements. Wilhelm Kempff's recording of this piece is especially brilliant. My second favorite Beethoven sonata is sonata no. 8 op. 13, Pathetique.


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## Ukko

claroche said:


> For me, it's the Hammerklavier, followed by the Waldstein, Appassionata, and then perhaps some of the early sonatas (Nos. 1 to say 15). On the Hammerklavier, a more recent recording by Anton Kuerti takes top prize (it's on a CD with the 28th). Kuerti's earlier (from the 1970s) cycle is excellent, but the 29th is not as good. In general, I like Brendel's approach to the whole set on Sonatas.


Back in the early 90s I attempted a survey of all the sets I owned or could borrow. Kuerti's set rated high. The set I had by Brendel was afflicted by odd, resonant sonics, so I put it aside in favor of single discs on other labels. I discovered something odd about Brendel's playing: each sonata seemed well-played, the interpretations interesting - but a few hours after hearing one I could remember nothing about it, except that I enjoyed it at the time.

I can't contribute to the favorite picks, because I have at least a dozen of them, in recordings by several pianists. I will single out Gilels as being excellent in all those he recorded for DG.


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## violadude

I've fallen in love with a lot of the Beethoven Sonatas that no one really talks about. #22 and 24 for example, the ones that bookend the appasionata, have some very special moments in them. The harmonies in those sonatas are just as striking as the ones in Appasionata, but they aren't as dramatic so they may not appeal to as many people.

I have a soft spot for #18 as well. The first movement is Beethoven at his most charmingly whimsical.

#16 is a great one I don't hear a lot about.

Of course, all the late sonatas are masterpieces...


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## jalex

Hammerklavier. #31 probably comes in next, and #8, #21, #23, #30 and #32 are all astonishingly good. 

#24 deserves more respect than it gets. Also #16.


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## violadude

Hmm we can't all agree on which Beethoven sonata is our favorites, but I wonder if we can all agree that our least favorites are #19 and #20


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## Ukko

violadude said:


> Hmm we can't all agree on which Beethoven sonata is our favorites, but I wonder if we can all agree that our least favorites are #19 and #20


I get lost without opus numbers. My least favorite sonata is Op. 81a.


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## violadude

Hilltroll72 said:


> I get lost without opus numbers. My least favorite sonata is Op. 81a.


Oh wow really?? That's a really good one I thought. Don't let Meghan see this post. That one is her favorite haha

The sonatas I proposed as everyone's least favorite are the Op. 49 sonatas.


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## jalex

violadude said:


> The sonatas I proposed as everyone's least favorite are the Op. 49 sonatas.


In fairness Beethoven didn't even want them published. Therefore I don't pay much attention to them.


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## violadude

jalex said:


> In fairness Beethoven didn't even want them published. Therefore I don't pay much attention to them.


Ya, as I understand they were written for students. I am not blaming Beethoven for bad composing, but out of all the sonatas regardless of what Beethoven wanted, I was wondering if they were everyone's least favorite.


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## Ukko

violadude said:


> Oh wow really?? That's a really good one I thought. Don't let Meghan see this post. That one is her favorite haha
> 
> The sonatas I proposed as everyone's least favorite are the Op. 49 sonatas.


I guessed that. I don't listen to those often, but when I do I enjoy them - as low stress top-of-the-mind, exercise.


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## Klavierspieler

Hilltroll72 said:


> I get lost without opus numbers. My least favorite sonata is Op. 81a.


 That's one of my favourites.


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## starthrower

Honestly, I never really ventured past the famous three. I do have one other CD of some lesser known sonatas that I haven't really listened to closely. Due to my ignorance I'll go with the Pathetique.


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## Ukko

Klavierspieler said:


> That's one of my favourites.


 I liked it too, the first dozen or so times I heard it. I guess it doesn't wear well. Maybe if Mustonen or Pletnev gave it a 'deep massage'...


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## Ukko

starthrower said:


> Honestly, I never really ventured past the famous three. I do have one other CD of some lesser known sonatas that I haven't really listened to closely. Due to my ignorance I'll go with the Pathetique.


There are stories about that sonata. After it was published, young piano students wanted to learn it, to the dismay of their teachers, many of whom were shocked by its intensity. A few years later, teachers had the problem again with Op. 57.


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## starthrower

I checked, and I have Volumes 1&2 by John O'Conor on Telarc.


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## itywltmt

We are taliking _favourite _and not "subjectively his best", right?

My _favourite _Beethoven sonata is NOT one of his piano sonatas, but rather the *F Major sonata for horn and piano, op. 17* (sometomes the cello subs in for the horn, but the horn version is much more satisfying).

As for piano sonatas, score one for the _Pathetique_.


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## Scarpia

My favorite is one that appears to get little love, #28, Op 101 in A-major. I love the dreamy opening movement, the vigorous march and the vibrant, fugal finale. Sort of like Hammerklavier light, hits the spot!


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## Ukko

Scarpia said:


> My favorite is one that appears to get little love, #28, Op 101 in A-major. I love the dreamy opening movement, the vigorous march and the vibrant, fugal finale. Sort of like Hammerklavier light, hits the spot!


Yep, that's a good'n. One of those puzzlers; how did he come up with _that_?


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## Klavierspieler

In no particular order:

7, 13, 15, 21-32.


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## Sequentia

No. 30, No. 29, No. 32, No. 31.

I'm never really sure whether I have Nos. 29 and 32 in the right order, and consider No. 31 too unique to be legitimately compared with the two aforementioned works.


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## NightHawk

Just to clarify: the Piano Sonata No. 29 in B flat major, _Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier_ is Op.106, not Op. 108 (1819 - corrections still being made)

The Op. 108 is Twenty Five Scottish Songs for voice, mixed chorus, violin, violoncello and piano, published in 1818.


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## Webernite

I'm sure I already listed my favorites in this thread, but it seems not. My favorite at the moment is Op. 81a, and I'd also mention Op. 26, Op. 28, Op. 101, Op. 106, Op. 109, and maybe Op. 110.


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## NightHawk

No personal disrespect meant, but I feel Gould's tempo in the last movement of the 'Moonlight' is so fast it sounds sloppy and terrible. I owned and got rid of his complete Mozart Sonatas as he played the allegros at ridiculous tempos - they sounded like in the old days when LPS could be played back at 78 rpms instead of 33 1/3. Love his Bach, or more accurately his Goldberg Variations and some of the Suites, the WTC however is like he was often looking for the strangest way to play one of the preludes or fugues. I want to get his Schoenberg as I have heard that he does a good job with the 2nd Viennese style . He was a genius, but very often, a very eccentric player.

Here is a fine recording of the 'Moonlight' m.3








Webernite said:


> I have to disagree. His interpretations vary greatly. They're not all mechanical, and this becomes especially clear if you listen to his live recordings from the 50s. When he does play mechanically, it's usually deliberate. And he was no stranger to Beethoven - he played the piano concertos more than 100 times during his career and the sonatas featured in nearly every concert he ever gave. I think these recordings (the first and third are live) come off fairly well:


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## violadude

NightHawk said:


> No personal disrespect meant, but I feel Gould's tempo in the last movement of the 'Moonlight' is so fast it sounds sloppy and terrible. I owned and got rid of his complete Mozart Sonatas as he played the allegros at ridiculous tempos - they sounded like in the old days when LPS could be played back at 78 rpms instead of 33 1/3. Love his Bach, or more accurately his Goldberg Variations and some of the Suites, the WTC however is like he was often looking for the strangest way to play one of the preludes or fugues. I want to get his Schoenberg as I have heard that he does a good job with the 2nd Viennese style . He was a genius, but very often, a very eccentric player.


 I agree that many of his tempos for older styles of music are way too fast for me. 
However, I have a recording of him playing Schoenberg Lieder and also him playing Hindemith sonatas and I recommend both of those a lot.


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## clavichorder

Klavierspieler said:


> In no particular order:
> 
> 7, 13, 15, 21-32.


Great to see someone who agrees on 7 and 13 as being gems.


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## clavichorder

Here's an awesome rendition of op. 10 no. 3(7)


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## DavidMahler

the 28th, it's his most poetic in my opinion


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## pjang23

Op.101, Op.109, and Op.111.


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## Beethovenrox

Pathetique and Appassionata! They are so amazing and awesome! They me feel those big huge dramatic emotions like no other piano piece! (pianos kind of boring imo sorry )

I like the last movement of the moonlight too! But the second movement is kind of boring....too light and happy.


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## Ukko

Beethovenrox said:


> Pathetique and Appassionata! They are so amazing and awesome! They me feel those big huge dramatic emotions like no other piano piece! (pianos kind of boring imo sorry )
> 
> I like the last movement of the moonlight too! But the second movement is kind of boring....too light and happy.




You've made a start, _Beeth_, but there's a long way to go.


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## Lisztian

Op 57, and it isn't really close. That's my favourite solo piano work by anyone except Liszt.


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## Beethovenrox

Hilltroll72 said:


> You've made a start, _Beeth_, but there's a long way to go.


What do you mean by that?


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## simonclassic

Hi!

My favorite sonata is Mondscheinsonate by Beethoven. I'm young, therefore new to classical music but even though I really enjoy it, I haven't heard more than the supposedly 'top 100' classical pieces (a selection I found on the internet). But so far, nothing compares to this one.

Unfortunately I haven't found anything deep, blue, dark, calm and beautiful like Mondsceinsonate yet. I was looking for it but I suppose I don't really know, where to look... If I was looking for a certain type of pop/rock/rap music I'd probably have better luck, but unfortunately classical music is painfully underrated these days. 

Therefore, I'm asking for help:
Could you please name a couple of pieces that are similar in mood and tone to my favorite one? And please, give me a basic tutorial, what is a sonata...  

And by the way, I have a really curious nature so any suggestions (must-knows, or anything you guess I might like) are highly appreciated. Please don't name arias, or pieces in which there's solo singing, I can't seem to bear those...  

Thanks in advance!

Simon


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## Ukko

/\ Hmm. First off, I feel compelled to point out that the 'Moonlight" sonata is only "blue, dark, calm and beautiful" in the first movement. Is the sonata your favorite, or do you like only its first movement?

That 1st movement is really a dirge. There are other well known dirge movements, e.g. in Chopin's 2nd sonata. There are other slow, thought generating movements, e.g in Schubert's D.960 sonata, and in Beethoven's Op. 106 sonata, and in his Op. 111 sonata.

All of those pieces have other commendable features.

As for 'what is a sonata',  they seem to have kept changing the rules for sonata form, so I don't know. If the composer calls it a sonata, OK by me, its a sonata.


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## Ukko

Beethovenrox said:


> What do you mean by that?


Sorry about the tardy response. I mean 'by that' that you understand very little about, and and have heard very little, classical music. There's a long way to go. I hope you enjoy the journey; I sure have.


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## skalpel

simonclassic said:


> Hi!
> 
> My favorite sonata is Mondscheinsonate by Beethoven. I'm young, therefore new to classical music but even though I really enjoy it, I haven't heard more than the supposedly 'top 100' classical pieces (a selection I found on the internet). But so far, nothing compares to this one.
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't found anything deep, blue, dark, calm and beautiful like Mondsceinsonate yet. I was looking for it but I suppose I don't really know, where to look... If I was looking for a certain type of pop/rock/rap music I'd probably have better luck, but unfortunately classical music is painfully underrated these days.
> 
> Therefore, I'm asking for help:
> Could you please name a couple of pieces that are similar in mood and tone to my favorite one? And please, give me a basic tutorial, what is a sonata...
> 
> And by the way, I have a really curious nature so any suggestions (must-knows, or anything you guess I might like) are highly appreciated. Please don't name arias, or pieces in which there's solo singing, I can't seem to bear those...
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Simon


Many of Chopin's nocturnes are in a similar mood to the first movement of the Beethoven sonata you're referring to. They aren't sonatas but they are solo pieces for piano, they have only one movement. Try this piece, for example:






If you're keen to learn more about Beethoven's piano sonatas, I'd suggest trying the 8th Sonata next, here's the second movement:






With regards to what a sonata is, as Hilltroll says, it's rather vague and the exact requirements of a 'Sonata' has tended to change over time. I'm no music teacher but I would probably best describe it as a piece usually for one or two instruments which typically has three or four movements and often the first movement adheres to the 'sonata form' compositional structure. But this is all by no means true for all sonatas! I've used words like "usually", "typically" and "often" because it really depends on the period and the composer... so yes, it's rather vague!

Hope you enjoy finding more music.


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## Ukko

/\ Chopin's nocturnes! Good idea, _skalpel_.


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## skalpel

I always like hearing people starting to get into classical music. I wish I had the chance to revisit my first listens to loads of the masterpieces I now already know well.


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## Taneyev

Mine is the 17th.


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