# Form for String Quartet 2nd movement.



## macgeek2005

I'm writing a new string quartet in circa 1850s-1890s style. The first movement is in classical sonata form.

For the second movement I've begun with a parallel 8 bar period (4 + 4) which modulates to V throughout the second 4 bars. (I forget the technical name for this kind of period).

I've put a repeat sign at the end of the 8 bars, setting it up to be part of a basic binary form, but I realize that if I just do a short digression and recap that won't make for much of a movement.

So I thought, what if I did an A B A structure in which each of the three components are an entire binary form? I actually don't know if this is common or it was done a lot in the 18th/19th centuries.

The A section would begin in Eb major, modulate to Bb, digression, and then recap of the first 8 bars, staying in Eb major this time.

The B section would be a complete contained binary form to itself, beginning in C minor (the key of the string quartet and of the first movement), modulating to G, digression, recap, bla bla bla.

And then a repeat of the A binary.

Is this a reasonable form to use in this kind of string quartet?

I really like the 8 bar period I have, and this is the only semi-decent-length form that I could think of whilst using that at the beginning with a repeat sign.

Thanks!


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## chee_zee

that's a large ternary, one of the more common forms for 2nd movements. theme and variations is the most common though, with some double theme and variations here and there. go for it I'd say. william caplin's 'classical form' should help. analyze some scores to quartets written in the last half of the 19 century.


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## Jeremy Marchant

macgeek2005 said:


> I'm writing a new string quartet in circa 1850s-1890s style. The first movement is in classical sonata form.


Why do this?


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## Romantic Geek

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Why do this?


Better question, why not?

I think there is nothing wrong with contemplating form when composing today. If macgeek2005 decided he wanted to write a string quartet in the style of mid-Romanticism, then I think it's a wise decision to use sonata form.

With that being said, I'll address your question specifically macgeek2005. I think your idea of a large ternary structure (some call it compound ternary) that includes smaller forms within it is a great choice for a second movement. In my experience, second movements usually are some ternary structure, although you can also have sonata form, binary, and free composed. What would be particularly effective is if you make the B section of the ternary in some distant key from the A section. My question to you, is there maybe a flair of chromaticism in your A section. For instance, in your modulation to V, did you use b6? If so, a B section in bVI would be really cool (and also be related indirectly to the A section.)

Good luck


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## StevenOBrien

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Why do this?


If he enjoys writing in the style, why stop him? There's plenty of other composers that will happily write the "new music" you seem to be looking for, so I think we should let macgeek continue doing his own thing.


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## macgeek2005

Thanks for the replies! I've finished the A section, and can confidently move on into the compound ternary.

There aren't any b6s in the A section.. I was kind of going for beautiful simplicity. It's all 4 + 4 stuff, very balanced. I was going to have the B section be in C minor and much more romantic, but it's a great idea to try and find a distant key that would have a thread of logic connecting it! I'll definitely think about that.

And I write music like this because I honestly feel no emotion listening to modern music, and no emotion in me compels me to write anything beyond a late 19th century sound.

Also, I want to get more people writing like this, because if thousands of us start composing again as though we're in the 18th and 19th centuries, eventually we'll get more pieces in that style of the quality of Mozart's 41st Symphony, Beethoven's 9th, etc. Tonality is not dead. If Mozart lived to 60 we would have 25 more years of his compositions. Those compositions never got written. They're lost. Not all the masterpieces of tonality got written. In fact we probably missed the majority of them, but "time marched on" and now it's too late? Who says?


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## StevenOBrien

macgeek2005 said:


> Also, I want to get more people writing like this, because if thousands of us start composing again as though we're in the 18th and 19th centuries, eventually we'll get more pieces in that style of the quality of Mozart's 41st Symphony, Beethoven's 9th, etc. Tonality is not dead. If Mozart lived to 60 we would have 25 more years of his compositions. Those compositions never got written. They're lost. Not all the masterpieces of tonality got written. In fact we probably missed the majority of them, but "time marched on" and now it's too late? Who says?


My views are that music took one path forward from Mozart and Beethoven, and that there are other paths yet to be uncovered.

Art is not technology. Old ideas don't become obsolete with new ideas. People need to realize this.


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## chee_zee

but how can we prove our intellectualism if we do something that has been done before?


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## Kopachris

chee_zee said:


> but how can we prove our intellectualism if we do something that has been done before?


The only way to do something that has been done before is to copy another piece directly.


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## macgeek2005

Kopachris said:


> The only way to do something that has been done before is to copy another piece directly.


Exactly. I write in 18th and 19th century structures and tonality, but one can clearly hear my voice in my music. It's my music. Same as as if I had lived in that time. Why should I have to write music of the time I was born into? I'm still me, and will be creating My music in whatever time period I choose to create it in.


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## chee_zee

I did a string quartet in the same style last year, my 2nd movement was a double theme and variations. in spite of it's beethoven connotations, I couldn't help but throw in some bebop, shawn lane, indian, etc. you have to start somewhere, for me I look at such works as walking before running. I'm slowly starting to move out of that this year, hopefully this time next year I'll pretty much be ready to write whatever I'm wanting (besides orchestral stuff, orch takes forever).


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## Couchie

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Why do this?


I believe Jeremy was inquiring about the use of classical-sonata form "1850s-1890s style". That's an abortion.


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## macgeek2005

Couchie said:


> I believe Jeremy was inquiring about the use of classical-sonata form "1850s-1890s style". That's an abortion.


I think it's actually more like 1790 - 1830, now that I think about it.


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## chee_zee

Then I wouldn't be able to recommend Caplin's book enough.


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## emiellucifuge

Well if music hadnt progressed from that time we would be missing out on even more great music...


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