# If I prefer Debussy's orchestral works, who/what should I listen to next?



## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

I can't speak volumes about Debussy, because until just now I had only heard Suite Bergamasque (which I love, don't get me wrong), but I just listened to Prélude à l'Après-Midi d'un Faune and I enjoyed it way more. I'm all about slow, relaxing, less dynamic music. That piece also has a magical, fantastical tone to it which I love and reminds me of Jeremy Soule's style slightly.

I've been trying to get into Bruckner more lately, and he seems vaguely similar except in a melancholy way.

Suggestions of other works by Debussy or composers I should listen to would be appreciated, thanks!


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2018)

You might like Lili Boulanger.

And some Wagner.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2018)




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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Oh, don't worry, I'm already a big Wagner fan (just the music though...)! Thanks for the other suggestions though. It'll be nice to have a female composer in my collection which is 100% males right now.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

All of Ravel's orchestral works, clearly. Try them all. 
A lot of Delius should please you - that's obvious too. North Country Sketches, On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring, etc etc. 

Then:

Manuel de Falla 3 Cornered Hat and Amor Brujo plus Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
Sibelius - Symphony 6 is a good place to start, 5 too.
Cantaloube - Songs of the Auvergne (Bailero)
Britten - 4 Sea Interludes from Peter Grimes

Lots more, but that's a start.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2018)

Fredx2098 said:


> Oh, don't worry, I'm already a big Wagner fan (just the music though...)! Thanks for the other suggestions though. It'll be nice to have a female composer in my collection which is 100% males right now.


I guess more Boulanger then?






I find her works to be more overtly dissonant than Debussy's, orchestrations tend to be even darker, but not without the wonderful splashes of brighter colour from time to time. Her late works are especially dissonant.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Other Debussy not mentioned, the most obvious being his masterpiece, La Mer, also the orchestral Nocturnes and Images. His piano music is uniquely brilliant, and worth every moment! Also his String Quartet.

Not the same family, but French to the core, the 3rd and 4th Symphonies by Alberic Magnard are, to me anyway, the finest symphonies by any Frenchman.

Once you've heard and enjoyed some of Claude's piano stuff, you should check out the same by Leos Janacek. On an Overgrown Path is an absolute must!


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> All of Ravel's orchestral works, clearly. Try them all.
> A lot of Delius should please you - that's obvious too. North Country Sketches, On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring, etc etc.
> 
> Then:
> ...


Ravel makes sense. I've only heard Gaspard de la Nuit but I love that 100x more than Suite Bergamasque. I've been wanting to get into Sibelius and Britten, so thanks for the suggestions, and thanks for the new composers who are unknown to me!


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

Listen to Sibelius 4th symphony now and then listen to Tapiola.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Robert Pickett said:


> Other Debussy not mentioned, the most obvious being his masterpiece, La Mer, also the orchestral Nocturnes and Images. His piano music is uniquely brilliant, and worth every moment! Also his String Quartet.
> 
> Not the same family, but French to the core, the 3rd and 4th Symphonies by Alberic Magnard are, to me anyway, the finest symphonies by any Frenchman.
> 
> Once you've heard and enjoyed some of Claude's piano stuff, you should check out the same by Leos Janacek. On an Overgrown Path is an absolute must!


I'm surprised to see On an Overgrown Path recommended, because it's a piece I like very much and I thought it was well "Off the Beaten Path". I'm a huge Janacek fan and go to Prague and Brno to see the operas live. Probably start with The Cunning Little Vixen, Prague National Theatre/Gregor on Supraphon






and go on to Kat'a Kabanova and Jenufa, again on Supraphon by Blachut and Jilek respectively. I'm going to tell you to avoid Mackerras completely and stick to the much more authentic Czech versions. This matters. There's a lot of brouhaha about Mackerras, and while he was always a great advocate of Janacek, that isn't enough to make his recordings worth seeking out.

Actually, you'd probably really enjoy the cartoon version of Vixen - it's very well done and utterly magical.






It's so good I'm going to watch it now!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

You could also push onward to two of the 20th centuries most important composers, who were influenced by Debussy (but have absolutely their own voice): Messiaen (e.g. Des canyons aux etoiles) and Takemitsu (e.g. Quotation of dream).


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> You could also push onward to two of the 20th centuries most important composers, who were influenced by Debussy (but have absolutely their own voice): Messiaen (e.g. Des canyons aux etoiles) and Takemitsu (e.g. Quotation of dream).


I love those guys, but I've only heard a couple pieces by each, not including the ones you mentioned, so I'll listen to those!


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> You could also push onward to two of the 20th centuries most important composers, who were influenced by Debussy (but have absolutely their own voice): Messiaen (e.g. Des canyons aux etoiles) and Takemitsu (e.g. Quotation of dream).


I too was thinking of those. I like November Steps 1 and 2 (Green) by Takemitsu











The piece I love the most by Messiaen is La Nativite du Seigneur (organ), followed by 20 Regards (piano). If you want to go further out, there's Berg's Wozzek but that's probably a bridge too far at this point.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> If you want to go further out, there's Berg's Wozzek but that's probably a bridge too far at this point.


Wozzeck is probably my favorite opera. Definitely a separate mood/style, but Debussy's opera that shirime mentioned should be a good listen then.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

This (Debussy) is not really an area of music I know well (but I really love Pelleas and Melisande) and there have been some good recommendations above. Ravel's orchestral works _are _the obvious step but that brings to my mind Vaughan Williams - who was a student of Ravel and it shows in many of his works.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Fredx2098 said:


> Ravel makes sense. I've only heard Gaspard de la Nuit but I love that 100x more than Suite Bergamasque. I've been wanting to get into Sibelius and Britten, so thanks for the suggestions, and thanks for the new composers who are unknown to me!


I would also recommend music of *Florent Schmitt*, who was very much in the thick of things in French impressionism (as was Albert Roussel early on). Any of his music will do, frankly, but Antoine et Cléopâtre, La tragédie de Salome, Salammbo, and his Piano Quintet are well worth seeking out first. His piano works, while perhaps not in the league of Ravel and Debussy, are also worth checking out.

Speaking of *Roussel*, his First Symphony, Bacchus and Ariadne, Le festin de l'araignée, and so forth are worth investigating, as does any works of *Dukas* (La Peri, Symphony in C).

*Bax* himself was drawn to works of Debussy, Ravel, and Schmidt, and his earlier works (Truth about the Russian Dancers, Garden of Fand, Dance of Wild Irravel, Nympholept) reflect that. *Glazunov* (Spring, The Seasons, Lady Soubrette, The Sea, Sixth Symphony, The Forest, Poeme Lyrique) is also a very safe bet.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Wasn't *Delius *sort of an English impressionist?

Try *Gavin Bryars' *piano concerto with choir: "Solway Canal" - I think some critic called it post-impressionist.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Since you like some more modern stuff I would also strongly recommend Dutilleux!


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## Thomyum2 (Apr 18, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> You could also push onward to two of the 20th centuries most important composers, who were influenced by Debussy (but have absolutely their own voice): Messiaen (e.g. Des canyons aux etoiles) and Takemitsu (e.g. Quotation of dream).


I second these recommendations (Takemitsu's _From Me Flows What You Call Time_ is a favorite). If you're looking for a female composer, I'd highly recommend Kaija Saariaho - I'm mostly familiar with her vocal works (_L'Amour de loin _or _Chateau de l'ame_), but she's written a fair amount or orchestral music as well.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2018)

Before moving on to other composers, I think you should listen to Debussy's _La Mer_ at least once. Not languorous like the _Afternoon of a Faun_, but having many moods, sometimes quite tranquil. One of the greatest compositions ever written.


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## Thomyum2 (Apr 18, 2018)

Another thought - have you ever explored the music of Charles Tomlinson Griffes? He's considered one of the best (or maybe only) American impressionist composers. _The White Peacock_ and the _Poem for Flute and Orchestra_ are wonderful.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Claude Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun is a masterpiece like no other. Maurice Ravel considered it the most unique, perfect piece of music ever composed, and wanted it to be played at his funeral. However, as Lark has pointed out, it isn't the only orchestral master work that Debussy composed, and although Ravel spent years under its spell, Ravel did compose some orchestral masterworks of his own.

It sounds to me like you've barely scratched the surface with these two composers (?), so here's a lengthy list of master works by Debussy & Ravel that I would consider essential listening (& I've provided links to an array of excellent recordings that you can listen to for free on You Tube, if you wish).

I. Debussy:

1. Orchestral music (in addition to the Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun):

--3 Nocturnes: I consider the third movement of Debussy's Nocturnes, "Sirènes", to be one of the most 'other worldly' movements ever composed. Apparently, Debussy had an acute understanding of the Sirens myth, as his Sirens aren't all about seduction in their song, but rather there are parts of the music where his Sirens can turn shrill, suggesting a sense of impending violence and anger. Many conductors miss this, such as Haitink, but not Dutoit:





https://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Orch...1510040&sr=1-7&keywords=debussy+dutoit+import--these Japanese import discs have the best sound that I've heard for Dutoit's Debussy.

--La Mer (Haitink & Dutoit): 









--Jeux: like the Faun, Jeux was a work that Debussy composed for the Ballet Russes. (The Boulez DG recording is excellent. Michael Tilson Thomas is also very good in Jeux--with the LSO, as are Ernst Bour, Charles Dutoit, & Andre Cluytens.):













--La Mer, Khamma (Debussy asked composer Charles Koechlin to do the orchestration for his late ballet, Khamma, since he was too ill to do so at the time), Jeux--conducted by Ernest Bour:





--Pelléas et Mélisande Suite (from Debussy's opera, arranged by Marius Constant, conducted by Serge Baudo. An underrated Debussy conductor, Baudo is excellent in the full opera too, as are Abbado, Boulez, Haitink, and Dutoit.): 




--Le Martyre de Saint Sebastien (Michael Tilson Thomas, narrator Leslie Caron):





--Danse sacrée et Danse profane (Haitink):









La Damoiselle élue (Claudio Abbado):





Lastly, here's a clip of Rudolph Nureyev dancing Nijinsky's choreography for the Faun, as it was performed for the Ballets Russes:





2. Essential Debussy chamber works:

--Debussy String Quartet (my benchmark recording by the Parkanyi Quartet isn't available on You Tube, but the Ysaye, Italiano, Orlando, Melos, Ebene, and Alban Berg Quartets are all excellent too, & available on YT):









--Sonata for Flute, Harp, and Viola (this late Debussy sonata is one of his most influential works. Unfortunately, one of my favorite recordings, by the Montreal Chamber Players isn't available on You Tube):








https://www.amazon.com/Autour-Harp-...4185&sr=1-1&keywords=montreal+chamber+players
https://www.amazon.com/Claude-Debus...=1531523726&sr=1-1&keywords=pentatone+debussy

--Les Chansons de Bilitis (Nash Ensemble, narrator Delphine Seyrig): 




(Debussy's Violin & Cello Sonatas are worth hearing too: 



.)

3. Essential Debussy solo piano music (in addition to the already mentioned Suite Bergamasque):

--Reverie (Samson François): 




--Images, Books 1 & 2 (Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli & Ivan Moravec):









Debussy Images, Arabesques, Reverie (Zoltan Kocsis): 




--Preludes Books 1 & 2, and Etudes Books 1 & 2 (Monique Haas):





--Preludes Book 1 (Nelson Freire): 




--Preludes Books 1 & 2 (I can't find Jacques Rouvier's excellent set of Preludes on You Tube, but here's a recent recording by French pianist Philippe Bianconi that I've liked too. Pianists Michel Dalberto and Michel Beroff (on Denon) are also excellent in this music, among current French pianists): 




--Estampes, Images, Preludes (Claudio Arrau):




https://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Works-Piano-Claudio-Arrau/dp/B00008NR7A (The Heritage remasters of Arrau's Debussy are easily the best sounding to date, and preferable to the Philips CD issues, and the Heritage set is actually reasonably priced at the moment on Amazon--at $22--which is rare for this OOP series.)

Preludes Book 1 (Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli--Michelangeli's Debussy can at times sound like two pianos are being played!): 




Images oubliées (Jacques Rouvier):













2 Arabesques (Jacques Fevrier): 




II. Ravel:

1. Essential Ravel orchestral works:

--Daphnis et Chloé (Charles Dutoit):






--Daphnis et Chloé (Manuel Rosenthal, who was a student and close friend of Ravel's): 




--Daphnis et Chloé (Pierre Monteux, who conducted the 1912 premiere of Daphnis for the Ballets Russes in Paris): 




--Pavane pour une infante défunte (Jean Martinon--another one of my favorite Ravel conductors):





--Ma mére l'oye (Mother Goose Suite--Charles Dutoit):





--Le Tombeau de Couperin: 




--Rhapsodie Espagnole, Ma Mére l'oye, Valses nobles et sentimentales, Le tombeau de Couperin (Ernest Bour): 




--Sheherazade, for soprano & orchestra--my 3 favorite versions are (1) Arleen Auger (an early recording with Bour, plus there's also a late one with Pesek too), (2) Dame Janet Baker (Barbirolli), and (3) Heather Harper (Boulez):

Auger/Bour:
















 (Auger/Pesek--"Asia")
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8441004--ravel-orchestral-works

Baker/Barbirolli:





Harper/Boulez:













2. Ravel Chamber Works:

--String Quartet (Ebene Quartet, Parkanyi Quartet):




https://www.allmusic.com/album/ravel-debussy-string-quartets-mw0001385782

--Piano Trio (Muller, Kantorow, Rouvier, and Trio Dali--the Florestan Trio is also excellent in this work, but not on YT):









--Introduction et allegro:




https://www.amazon.com/Autour-Harp-...7315&sr=1-1&keywords=montreal+chamber+players

Ravel Chamber Songs--Trois Poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé (sung by Anne Sofie von Otter, along with chamber songs by Debussy, Delage, Faure, etc.):













https://www.amazon.com/Anne-Sofie-v...507010&sr=1-1&keywords=von+otter+french+songs

3. Essential Ravel piano music:

--Miroirs (Samson Francois): 




--Gaspard de la Nuit (Ivo Pogorelich & Martha Argerich):









--Sonatine (Monique Haas & Alicia de Larrocha):













--Prelude (Jean-Yves Thibaudet): 




--Jeux d'eau (Anne Queffelec, & Yvonne Lefébure):









--Pavane pour und infante défunte (Jean-Philippe Collard & Anne Queffelec):









--Le Tombeau de Couperin (Madeleine de Valmalete): 




Complete Ravel works for piano, including the two piano concertos (Samson François, with conductor Andre Cluytens): 




Complete Ravel solo works for piano (Jacques Fevrier): 




From here--you might explore the music of Debussy & Ravel's contemporaries, such as Gabriel Faure (especially his Requiem, Pelleas et Melisande, & 2 Piano Quartets & Quintets), Eric Satie (3 Gymnopedies, 6 Gnossienes), Albert Roussel (Serenade, Op. 30, 4 Symphonies), Alberic Magnard (4 Symphonies), Charles Koechlin ("Paysages et Marines"--solo piano & chamber versions:



 and "Les Heures Persanes" solo piano & orchestral versions: 



), Georges Bizet, Gabriel Pierne, Paul Dukas, Camille Saint Saens, Joseph Guy Marie Ropartz (Prelude, Marine and Chansons, & 5 Symphonies), Cesar Franck (Symphony in D minor, Violin Sonata), Ernst Chausson (Concert, op. 21), Henri Duparc (songs), Reynaldo Hahn (chamber works & songs); along with later French composers, such as Darius Milhaud (



), Andre Jolivet, Henri Dutilleux, and Oliver Messiaen.

In addition, there are many foreign composers that were likewise influenced by Debussy & Ravel (and in some cases, vice versa), such as Isaac Albeniz (Iberia), Enrique Granados, Manuel de Falla ("Nights in the Gardens of Spain"--Falla's orchestration is Ravel influenced: 



), Federico Mompou (Musica Callada, Impresiones intimas), Nikolai (and Alexander) Tcherepnin (Narcisse et Echo:



), Joseph Jongen (Concert à cinq), Zoltan Kodaly, Leos Janacek, Charles Tomlinson Griffes (The White Peacock), Ralph Vaughan Williams (The Lark Ascending: 



, Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, Symphonies 1-9, etc.), Arnold Bax (tone poems, 7 Symphonies), Frederic Delius (tone poems), Arthur Honegger (5 Symphonies), Frank Martin, Bohuslav Martinu (6 Symphonies, etc.), & Oliver Knussen (& many more).

Finally, you should try to hear Rimsky-Korsakov's Sheherazade (1888), if you don't know it, as it was a likely influence on Debussy & Ravel; along with Igor Stravinsky's three early ballets for the Ballets Russes: The Firebird (1910), Petrushka (1911), and The Rite of Spring (1913).














Hope that helps, though of course I don't mean for you to listen to my above recommendations all at once, but over time, at your leisure.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Thomyum2 said:


> If you're looking for a female composer, I'd highly recommend Kaija Saariaho - I'm mostly familiar with her vocal works (_L'Amour de loin _or _Chateau de l'ame_), but she's written a fair amount or orchestral music as well.





isorhythm said:


> Since you like some more modern stuff I would also strongly recommend Dutilleux]


Sweet - those would have been my next two recommendations.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Nocturnes is perfect, I'm only 3 minutes in and I know it.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Fredx2098 said:


> Nocturnes is perfect, I'm only 3 minutes in and I know it.


Did you try Delius North Country Sketches? The closest I can think to Nocturnes.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> Did you try Delius North Country Sketches? The closest I can think to Nocturnes.


That sounds beautiful, but that's the sh*ttiest recording I've ever heard in my life! Worse than a phone recording! I can't listen to it like that, I'll find another way!


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Fredx2098 said:


> That sounds beautiful, but that's the sh*ttiest recording I've ever heard in my life! Worse than a phone recording! I can't listen to it like that, I'll find another way!


Sorry about that - it was Sir Thomas Beecham in 1949! But you're right - this needs good sound.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

If you enjoy Debussy for instruments or orchestra try any of these compositions:

Images, Printemps, Petite Suite (not so Debussyian), orchestrations of the Chidren's Corner Suite, Noctures (3), Jeux, Khamma and orchestrations of La boite a joujoux -- the latter three all ballet -- and of course La Mer, his greatest masterpiece.

Of his chamber music I most enjoy the Sonata for Flute, Alto et Harpe and the flute number called Syrinx. There is a tremendous recording of all these plus a wonderful chamber rendition of Prélude à l'Après-midi d'un faune here:

https://www.amazon.com/Claude-Debus...427&sr=8-1&keywords=debussy+sonata+for+flute,


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Delius was known as the English Debussy, from my recollection. The CD with Beecham on Delius works is one of those gems in any music collection.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)




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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

I recommend music by Andre Caplet (if austere religiosity doesn't disagree with your aesthetics) and/or Charles Koechlin (especially Koechlin's *Persian Hours*)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Debussy was not only an innovator in the technical sense but also opened up new avenues in Western music in terms of his philosophy. He summed it up as "composers alone have the privilege of capturing all the poetry of night and day, of earth and sky, of recreating their atmosphere and of setting their mighty pulsations within a rhythmic framework."

Apart from what has already been suggested:

*Messiaen* 8 Preludes for piano

*Grainger* In a Nutshell (particularly the Pastoral movement), this piece exists in piano and orchestrated form

*Villa-Lobos* Solo piano pieces (eg. Festa no sertao, Alma brasileira, A lenda de cabocio, Impressoes seresteiras), also his Saxophone Concerto (Debussy wrote his Rhapsody arabe for the instrument) - the Brazilian absorbed influences such as Debussy while in France.

*Sculthorpe's* Fifth Continent (particularly the "Pacific" movement), not influenced by Debussy but nevertheless presenting imagery of nature (somewhat like Britten's Four Sea Interludes already mentioned).

*Glanville-Hicks* Three Gymnopedies for oboe, harp, celesta, strings, again not such an exact match but you may like it.

*Jerry Goldsmith* "Papillon" film score, particularly "The Gift from the Sea" sequence (direct influence of Debussy and Ravel).

*Walton* "Henry V" film score, the "Harfleur" and "The Night Watch" segments. A bit of La Mer as well as Rapsodie Espagnole made it into this. The Chandos recording is excellent.

Plus *Cyril Scott*, who according to what I have read was doing similar things to Debussy at the same time, and he was a lifelong friend of Percy Grainger who helped save many of his works from oblivion. Perhaps others who know his music can offer specific pieces, although his piano music has been extensively recorded.

I would second the suggestion of* Janacek*, at least his piano piece "In the Mists" (Im Nebel), and other solo piano music (not so much his music for piano with other instruments).


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