# Webern?



## Guest (Mar 7, 2014)

What pieces might be a good introduction to Webern, please?


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

There are others with more expertise in this area but Webern's oeuvre is pretty small and the quality pretty consistent, it shouldn't make too much difference where you start. As far as conductors Boulez is usually a pretty safe bet.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Buy this...

View attachment 36588


----------



## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

"Doomed to a total failure in a deaf world of ignorance and indifference he inexorably kept on cutting out his diamonds, his dazzling diamonds, the mines of which he had such a perfect knowledge." Stravinsky on Webern

For me:

Concerto op 24
Das Augenlicht
Variations for Piano

But yes - you can dip in all over the place - the string quartet works and the cantatas are great too


----------



## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Since all of Webern would fit on a disc or two, just get the complete works and dip in as you see fit. (Although the best introduction is to hear a piece or two live in concert).


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2014)

Many thanks for the pointers!


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Chamber Music*

After reading the above fine recommendations I thought I would relate my experiences with atonal music.

As I have state in other threads when I was younger I did not care for most atonal music. I started to appreciate it when I was in my fifties.

The problem with most contemporary music is that it is badly played.

I was at a lecture where John Corigliano addressed this phenomenon. When a symphony orchestra performed one of his pieces, they would only spend a few rehearsals working on it. He notice with his _Symphony for Band_, which is normally performed by university groups, that they would spend weeks working on it not just a few days. As a result he was very impressed with the quality of the performances of these university groups when they performed his symphony.

A group like the Julliard or Pacifica Quartets may spend months absorbing a work before they perform it. It was listening to them performing the Carter Quartets that resulted with me gaining appreciation of Carter's music.

I would start with a recording of the _String Quartet, Opus 28_ by one the top tier quartets. Arkive music recommends the following recordings: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=12855&name_role1=1&comp_id=2593&bcorder=15H&album_group=5

I have found that there suggestions are usually very good.

For the record my recording is with the Emerson in the Deutsche Grammophon Complete Webern / Boulez set. It is excellant.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Webern's_* Im Sommerwind *_is the most understandable example of his music. It is tonal, as well.


----------



## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

While the least characteristic of the rest of his output, his Op. 1 Passacaglia is a nice work, a great example of German late-Romantic writing.

It's hard to recommend works by this one. Schoenberg was the most analytical, Berg's music is like golden sunlight...but Webern? Cold. Black and cold as ice.

I really like his Op. 21 Symphony. You should give it a listen.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Schoenberg was the most analytical, Berg's music is like golden sunlight...but Webern? Cold. Black and cold as ice.


I disagree. Berg is the most passionate, Schoenberg the most spontaneous, and Webern the most analytical of the three.

Personally, I'm fond of the Op. 5 String Quartet Pieces the most of all Webern's works. Of his tonal works, the Passacaglia Op. 1 (in D minor). Of his 12-tone works, the Cantatas, Op. 29 and 31.


----------



## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I disagree. Berg is the most passionate, Schoenberg the most spontaneous, and Webern the most analytical of the three.


I see. I'm not too familiar with the Second Viennese School, so my observation was just a first impression. Now that you mention it, it makes much more sense to describe Pierrot Lunaire as "spontaneous" rather than "analytical". And I probably think Webern's music is cold because it is so analytical and distant


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I love them all. The only thing I have against Schoenberg is that he didn't experiment enough with rhythm.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

This is the area of classical music I am seriously weak in. I really need to expose myself to more Schoenberg.
He's not going away, but I may....


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> I love them all. The only thing I have against Schoenberg is that he didn't experiment enough with rhythm.


His treatment of pulse is rather standard, to be sure (this was one of the things Boulez singled out for criticism in his famous essay), but his consistent use of irregular and overlapping phrases, which is one of the most consistent traits over his entire career, was quite inventive and makes for fascinating counterpoint. Of course, it's also one of the things that makes his music sound odd if you're not used to it, because the lines begin and end at different times.


----------



## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

gog said:


> What pieces might be a good introduction to Webern, please?


Since you asked this question about Berg too, I would get the "pieces" cd!


----------



## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> ...but Webern? Cold. Black and cold as ice.


I find that his mature works are precise and concise, utterly beautiful, and at some points exhilarating. I don't experience them as 'black' or 'cold'.

5 Pieces for String Quartet, Op. 5, the String Quartet Op. 28 and the Variations for piano, Op. 27 are particular favourites.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I see. I'm not too familiar with the Second Viennese School, so my observation was just a first impression. Now that you mention it, it makes much more sense to describe Pierrot Lunaire as "spontaneous" rather than "analytical". And I probably think Webern's music is cold because it is so analytical and distant


Well, I think that all of them had all of those qualities in some degree, of course.

Schoenberg was quite fond of light music like marches and waltzes, and there's a distinctive Viennese lilt in parts of his later works that might come off even as nostalgia, and of course he was analytical in his overall conception of music as exhausting the possibilities of a single idea.

One might be surprised to learn that of the Second Viennese School, Berg was the member most fascinated by hidden musical codes and precise palindromic structures. Every scene in Wozzeck is structured based on some paradigm developed from the forms of absolute music, so Act II actually forms a whole symphony. Of course he also put great emphasis on the sudden outburst and the unexpected, theatrical twist.

Webern was somewhat skeptical of Schoenberg's 12-tone method until his teacher mentioned a that one particular compositional decision had been settled purely by intuition. Some of the lieder have an intimacy and warmth in them in better performances (than the ones in the Sony Boulez set).


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

My favorite dazzling diamond is Variations for Orchestra, Op. 30.


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I recommend his Symphony, the Concerto for Nine Instruments, and his 5 Pieces for String Quartet


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

*Schoenberg:*
Passionate: _Transfigured Night_
Spontaneous: _Serenade_
Analytical: _String Trio, Variations for Orchestra

_*Berg:*
Passionate: Jugenlieder, Violin Concerto
Spontaneous: Sonata op. 1
Analytical: Lyric Suite

*Webern:*
Passionate: Leider, Im Sommerwind
Spontaneous: Bagatelles
Analytical: Symphony, Variations for Piano


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

My personal preference is that you listen to his lieder last. Some are approachable but some of them are overly busy and overwhelming. However, the Augenlicht and two cantatas are, at least to my ears, very approachable.


----------



## classifriend (Mar 9, 2014)

if you're coming from a romantic background i'd suggest listening to his Passacaglia (here i prefer Karajan's conducting to Boulez), his early piano pieces are ear candy, try getting the ones played by Jean-Jacques Dünki, also his vocal chamber works are pretty easy to listen to. from there you can move on to his string works (make sure to get the ones played by the Arditti Quartet), his lieder and his other orchestral works. both Boulez and Craft recorded his whole catalog and both sets are very good


----------



## WienerKonzerthaus (Mar 11, 2014)

Yes. Langsamer Satz and his Schubert Meddlings. Then, work towards Six Pieces.

also, FYI:

Krzysztof Chorzelski, violist of the Belcea Quartet, talks Anton Webern and Charles Ives while enjoying a cold one.

Anton Webern, Langsamer Satz, and the Belcea Quartet 



http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/Home/tabid/41/entryid/345/Krzysztof-Chorzelski-violist-of-the-Belcea-Quartet-has-a-beer-and-talks-Anton-Webern-and-then-some.aspx


----------

