# A Heavy Metal Requiem Mass



## georgedelorean

Hiya, folks. Just joined a few days ago at the time of this post. Anyways, on to the topic at hand. What I'm working on is my first big work. It's technically opus 1, however at this point I'm on the fourth version of it. There are numerous things which have survived since the first version, however there have been several songs within it which have been written and rewritten several times. It includes what would usually be found in the general Requiem Mass, as well as numerous things which wouldn't. I wanted to do it big or not at all, so I chose the first option. At this point I believe I have seventeen songs left to go until the whole thing is finished. I'm using a few computer programs to compose and record the instrumentals, and I plan on doing a virtual choir thing for the vocals.


A Heavy Metal Requiem Mass

Table of Contents

ORDER OF MASS

Song number 

1. Prelude (Orchestra) 
2. Asperges Me (Bass-Baritone Solo, Tenor/Bass Chorus) 
3. Introit (Full Chorus) 
4. Kyrie 
5. Gloria (Soprano Solo, Full Chorus) 
-Reading: Wis. 3: 1-9 (Bass-Baritone) 
6. Gradual (Full Chorus) 
-Reading: Rom. 5:1-21(Bass-Baritone)
7. Alleluia (All Soloists, Full Chorus) 
-Reading: Luke 7: 11-17 (Basso Profundo)
8. Credo (Soprano, Mezzo, Tenor, Bass-Baritone Soloists, Full Chorus) 
9. Offertory 
10. Sanctus/Hosanna 
11. Agnus Dei 
12. Ave Verum Corpus 
13. Pater Noster (Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola, Cello Solos) 
14. Communion (Soprano Soloist, Full Chorus) 
15. Tract 
16. Dies Irae (All Soloists, Full Chorus) 
17. Tuba Mirum (Tenor Solo) 
18. Mors Stupebit-Rex Tremendae (Bass-Baritone, Basso Profundo Soloists) 
19. Recordare 
20. Iuste Iudex  
21. Ingemisco (Soprano Solo) 
22. Qui Mariam 
23. Preces Meae 
24. Inter Oves 
25. Confutatis 
26. Oro Supplex 
27. Lacrimosa 
28. In Paradisium (Soprano Soloist, Full Chorus) 
29. Libera Me 
30. Pie Iesu (All Soloists, Full Chorus) 
31. Nunc Dimittis (Basso Profundo Soloist) 
32. Postlude (Orchestra) 


Orchestra

Woodwinds: 
Piccolo 
Flute 1 & 2 
Oboe 1 & 2 
English Horn 
Eb Clarinet 
Bb Clarinet 
A Clarinet 
Bassoon 1 
Bassoon 2 
Contrabassoon 

Brass:

Horn 1 
Horn 2 
Horn 3 
Horn 4 
Piccolo Trumpet (A tuning) 
Trumpet 1 & 2 (Bb tuning) 
Trumpet 3 (Bb tuning) 
Trombone 1 & 2 
Trombone 3 
Bass Trombone 
Tuba 

Percussion:

Timpani 
Bass Drum 

Plucked Strings:

Harp 

Keyboards:

Piano 
Pipe Organ 
Harpsichord 

Vocals

Soloists:

Soprano 
Mezzo-Soprano 
Tenor 
Bass-Baritone 
Basso Profundo  

Chorus:

Soprano 
Alto 
Tenor 
Bass 

Strings: (Recommended sizes)

Violins 1-18 (listed as Violin I) 
Violins 19-36 (listed as Violin II) 
Violas 1-7 (listed as Viola I) 
Violas 8-14 (listed as Viola II) 
Cellos 1-6 (listed as Cello I) 
Cellos 7-12 (listed as Cello II) 
Basses 1-5 (listed as Bass I) 
Basses 6-10 (listed as Bass II) *These need C extensions.


Band:

Lead Guitar 
Rhythm Guitar 
Bass Guitar 
Drums 


The sonic profile of this will most likely be completely different that you're thinking. I have a YouTube link for the Mors Stupebit-Rex Tremendae if anybody is curious. If you do decide to listen to it though, it's completely raw without any mixing, or mastering, and the vocals have not yet been recorded. I'll post or PM it on request so that only those who want to listen to won't be bothered by the link. If you have any questions, thoughts, or what-have-you, please feel free to comment. I'll get back with you as soon as I can. Thanks for reading.


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## eljr




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## paulc

Hi George,

Sounds like Doom Metal! Plodding, gloomy, but not particularly interesting. 

IMO, 'Rock' and orchestral hybrids are very hard to pull off. The texture of the distorted electric guitar is very hard to blend with the more earthy instruments of the orchestra. One of the better examples I can think of is The Moody Blues 'Days of Future Passed'.

The mixing of your existing recording makes it very hard to hear the orchestration.

Here are a couple of similar (genre) songs for reference:

Mekong Delta - Dance (Christopher Young's Hellraiser Theme):





Mekong Delta - Fugue:


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## georgedelorean

Hi, Paul. Keep in mind that the interesting vocal melodies are not heard. When those are recorded. it'll be much more to listen to, as well as the fact that I have not done any mixing or mastering on this yet. It'll be easier to hear later once the whole project is finished and recorded.


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## paulc

To be continued, then.


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## georgedelorean

I'm also not interested in the least in what others have done in similar veins. If that sounds curt, it's because I've had too much of others trying to tell me how to compose my own music, putting their own opinions in on what they think it should be. I have absolutely no patience left for that. I put all the info about the status of what's going on, and people don't even read what I say, and I have to repeat what I already stated both in the video and my first post. Yarggh. Now I'm pissed off, and the next person who doesn't read before listening will be blocked.


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## Phil loves classical

Like the sound. Raw is good...


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## georgedelorean

Thanks, Phil. Believe me, when you hear it with the properly mixed and balanced along with the vocals, your enjoyment will increase tenfold.


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## Phil loves classical

georgedelorean said:


> Thanks, Phil. Believe me, when you hear it with the properly mixed and balanced along with the vocals, your enjoyment will increase tenfold.


I dunni if you want to do that. Usually if something is hyped up so much I end up getting disappointed  at least at the beginning.


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## georgedelorean

This will be the exception. You'll see!


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## childed

paulc said:


> IMO, 'Rock' and orchestral hybrids are very hard to pull off.


here is a very delicious sample )))





@georgedelorean
i'm guitar player, imho guitar must be more riffed.
great idea you have, take care, good luck!


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## georgedelorean

Hi, Childed. Keep in mind that this is but one example of one song out of about 30. There are some riffy songs, and some that use long chords. I do what I believe to be the best to serve the music, as would be expected. Then again with the darkness of this song, it'd be too busy and distracting to use riffs. Believe me, I tried!


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## eljr

I enjoyed it. I took the time to give it several listens over several days. 

Keep me in the loop, as I believe you suggested you would, if one so requested.


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## Phil loves classical

Huh? This part I don't get. I thought George and eljr were the same person since eljr was the one who posted the sample that was missing in the OP?


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## georgedelorean

Haha! Nope. We're two different people. I decided not to post it as I was going to IM it only to those who were interested in listening. Eljr put it in. It's cool, though.


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## georgedelorean

I'll keep everyone up to date on the progress here. In fact, I'm about to start the Inter Oves. Don't know if I'll get to it today as I had a seizure this morning, and am resting from work.


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## georgedelorean

And thank you. I know the idea of this isn't for everybody, and I'm perfectly good with that. If someone enjoys it, great. If not, just as great. My idea is to do something which, though others have composed Requiems before, is to add an extra ingredient that I hope will give the meaning and character of the Mass some more depth.


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## Captainnumber36

I'd like to hear it when it's finished.


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## georgedelorean

Hi there, Captain. The whole thing will be on YouTube when it's all done. After everything's written, I'll record/mix/master the instruments. Then I'll get editors, and put out a casting call in a few places for the choir and soloists.


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## eljr

georgedelorean said:


> Haha! Nope. We're two different people. I decided not to post it as I was going to IM it only to those who were interested in listening. Eljr put it in. It's cool, though.


Thought I was doing you a favor! 
my apologies.

Without a link I figured the thread would not go to far.

People just don't take the time.

Anyway, I think this a really cool idea and am anxious for more.


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## georgedelorean

Nah, you're good, Eljr! I thank you for doing it actually. I tend to be too minimalist sometimes, so that was actually a good idea. There will be LOTS more coming, so definitely stay tuned. I'm going to keep everyone apprised of the situation with starting, orchestrating, and finishing songs. So you're not gonna miss a thing. I might, just might also post some pics of the sheet music if anyone is interested. Not sure how many will be interested in that. Gonna test the waters first. Watch and be anxious no more!


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## georgedelorean

I'm gonna ask to see what you all think, would you be interested in seeing some of the sheet music from the Mass here? If you do, I can either post parts of some things, or the entirety if you might enjoy it. Let me know.


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> I'm gonna ask to see what you all think, would you be interested in seeing some of the sheet music from the Mass here? If you do, I can either post parts of some things, or the entirety if you might enjoy it. Let me know.


Of course we do, don't be shy.


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## georgedelorean

Here is the most recent update of the Prelude: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6juXxk9y2HIdWlFOHZWajh3eXc

If you can't view it for some reason, let me know so that I can change whatever needs to be. There are some edits I'm going to make to it, however it going to remain almost entirely untouched afterwards. You're welcome to download it and view it in Adobe or some other PDF viewer to get a closer look.


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## georgedelorean

Tomorrow I'll be moving forward to begin composing the Inter Oves. I'll keep you updated as I proceed.


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> Here is the most recent update of the Prelude: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6juXxk9y2HIdWlFOHZWajh3eXc
> 
> If you can't view it for some reason, let me know so that I can change whatever needs to be. There are some edits I'm going to make to it, however it going to remain almost entirely untouched afterwards. You're welcome to download it and view it in Adobe or some other PDF viewer to get a closer look.


I've printed it, just for better reading , no commercial purpose word of honour.


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## georgedelorean

We be cool. Print and peruse all you want. Absolutely no problem.


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## georgedelorean

Meant to start on the Inter Oves a few days ago, however I now have two screenshots for you of the in-progress version. My process is to write the accompaniment on piano, and then orchestrate if after I finish the vocal harmony, if any. This piece will feature the chorus. Key is D Major at 120 BPM.


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## georgedelorean

Finished the rough version of the Inter Oves. Next step: orchestration. Here's a link to listen to the piano-only version. Keep in mind that the piano is also playing the vocals as well. Anyways, enjoy: https://vocaroo.com/i/s1u5aVpSiYIC


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> Finished the rough version of the Inter Oves. Next step: orchestration. Here's a link to listen to the piano-only version. Keep in mind that the piano is also playing the vocals as well. Anyways, enjoy: https://vocaroo.com/i/s1u5aVpSiYIC


You make me more curious each time, can't wait till it's finished. 
Keep going and don't let us keep you.


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## georgedelorean

Definitely, Pugg. However I also stated that I plan on keeping everyone updated, which I will do my best to keep regular.


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## georgedelorean

Something off topic, however I thought y'all might enjoy it. A few months ago, I was an extra in a short fictional film where humor is illegal. I also ran the boom mic for a demo reel the day after. I have both links for you to view. Enjoy. In the first one, I'm the tallest, big dude with the huge beard wearing the red shorts, and the gray t shirt with the collared shirt over that. So, yeah, I'm also trying to get into the film industry as well. Been in a lot of voice over stuff to date as well, as one other on-screen extra part in 2001.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_RPsR220rfecC10QmdCeXZFY3c/view?ts=59a76646 (short film)





 (boom mic operator)


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## georgedelorean

Inter Oves is nearly finished. Working on the lead guitar solo right now for the second half of the song. After that I'll put in a riff for the rhythm guitar, fill in the blanks, and it'll be finished.


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> Inter Oves is nearly finished. Working on the lead guitar solo right now for the second half of the song. After that I'll put in a riff for the rhythm guitar, fill in the blanks, and it'll be finished.


My goodness, you can build the tension, like a new Hitchcock .


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## georgedelorean

I didn't realize that a statement of the facts can be tense! I'll have to remember this for future consideration. :devil:


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## georgedelorean

I might add that this is the first song I've used closed hi hats instead of open for the drums. It sounds a great deal tighter and more precise. Thinking I might have to experiment with older pieces for the Mass to see if it might improve the quality thereof.


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## georgedelorean

The Inter Oves is now finished. Up next for the project is the Iuste Iudex. It's going to be a fat, heavy, intimidating piece of music. Let's see if I can outclass the Mors Stupebit.


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## georgedelorean

Greetings, friends. Been busy with work lately. However today, I received some inspiration in a flash. It is exceedingly simple, however I put it down, and now the rough outline of the Iuste Iudex is finished. All that's left to do is orchestrate, organize, and it'll be done. That was one hour ago from the time of this post. When creativity strikes with me, it's as if the entirety of Lake Powell burst through the dam instantaneously. I might also add this is the first time I've ever written in 6/8 time. The only exception to that is the last two bars of the piece.


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## georgedelorean

Orchestration of the Iuste Iudex is finished. What's left: compose guitar/bass/drum parts.


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## georgedelorean

For those of you who haven't seen it yet, I started a new thread called the "Cookery Corner." You can view it here, and add anything you might want to for recipes and such.

http://www.talkclassical.com/51531-cookery-corner.html


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## georgedelorean

The guitars and drums have been finished for the Iuste Iudex. Next up: Kyrie. Considering the text of it, I plan on making it as sad as possible. And by the way, here's a link to the PDF of the Iuste Iudex:

http://docdro.id/kBF7r03


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## georgedelorean

I have the preview version of the Iuste Iudex here for your listening pleasure. Once again, please keep in mind that this was recorded without any mixing/mastering, and also the vocals have not yet been recorded. I have to say that every time because people either don't read what I've said previously, or they ignore what I'm saying. Anyways, enjoy:

https://vocaroo.com/i/s05rupLR3t7i


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## georgedelorean

I have begun to compose the Kyrie. Turning out quite a bit different than I had intended. However it's also better than I had imagined it.


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## georgedelorean

Making steady progress on the Kyrie. All vocal lines are finished. Writing accompaniment for vocals right now. I find it easiest to start with the treble part and work down. This usually allows me to come up with some intricate, though not overbearing counterpoint.


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## georgedelorean

I have some pics to share with you all of the Kyrie. Just to remind you, I compose the bulk of the orchestral accompaniment on the piano, then orchestrate it later. I will be starting on the accompaniment for the alto line tonight. Anyways, please enjoy the pics of what I have so far. Key is Gm, 100 BPM. If you look at what each vocal line is like I'm modulating through Gm, BbM, EbM (with the alto line), and back to Gm with the soprano line, without actually modulating through the keys explicitly.


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## georgedelorean

Here are the last three Kyrie photos.


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## paulc

Are you going to commission a real choir, or create a soft-synth 'mockup'?


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## georgedelorean

I plan on sending out audition notices for both soloists and choir.


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## georgedelorean

The rough outline of the Kyrie is now finished. Next steps: orchestration, add guitars/bass/drums. I also have screenshots of the rest of it for your pleasure. Enjoy. (pics set 1/3)


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## georgedelorean

Kyrie extended pics set 2/3.


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## georgedelorean

Kyrie pics set 3/3.


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## Pugg

Do you mind if I print them out georgedelorean, own use only, scouts honour.


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## georgedelorean

Go for it, dude.


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## prasad94

paulc said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Sounds like Doom Metal! Plodding, gloomy, but not particularly interesting.
> 
> IMO, 'Rock' and orchestral hybrids are very hard to pull off. The texture of the distorted electric guitar is very hard to blend with the more earthy instruments of the orchestra. One of the better examples I can think of is The Moody Blues 'Days of Future Passed'.
> 
> The mixing of your existing recording makes it very hard to hear the orchestration.
> 
> Here are a couple of similar (genre) songs for reference:
> 
> Mekong Delta - Dance (Christopher Young's Hellraiser Theme):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mekong Delta - Fugue:


I agree it is hard to pull off, but not impossible. I'd use Yngwie Malmsteen or Slash as an example. Their guitar works in the orchestral setting, simply because the arranger understands what the guitar is doing as the soloist. Therefore the rest of the orchestra is composed around highlighting the melodic guitar lines.

From what eljr (poster above you) shared, it seems whoever composed that did not have the idea in mind. Realistically, the orchestra (as it is written) doesn't blend with distorted guitars, as the guitar is holding too much of the musical spectrum for anything other than the high violins to be heard clearly. No offence, but it was uninteresting and sounds bad. If the current guitar parts were divided amongst other orchestral instruments, and then given the lines of the 1st violin, it may come off way better.

I've never heard of Mekong Delta, but it sounds fairly well-balanced and great for the genre! The guitars aren't muddy and the orchestra is well written.

Just a slightly critical perspective towards orchestral+metal music.


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## georgedelorean

WARNING TO ALL FUTURE POSTERS. I have HAD IT with people listening to the rough, unbalanced, unmixed, non-mastered version of the Mors Stupebit which was posted, and not READING THE DISCLAIMER THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO SOUND LIKE IT WILL IN THE FINAL MASTERING. Please READ what I took the time to say IN THE DAMN VIDEO. I have NO PATIENCE LEFT for the stupidity of people who think that what was posted is the final version. I also will now say that I DON'T CARE what you think of the ENTIRE MASS BASED OFF ONE SONG WHICH I HAVE NOT EVEN YET RECORDED VOCALS FOR, NOR PROCESSED THE AUDIO ON. 

Any further stupidity will be subsequently ignored, the message removed, and the person added to my ignore list. I also DON'T CARE what any other musician does/has done, and that I should be "more like so and so." I am me, and this is MY PROJECT, NOT YOURS. YOU HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT I DO. If you don't like what you hear, I DON'T CARE. Not everyone will. It's not my problem to make something that everyone will enjoy for all time. If you don't like it, oh well. 

This tirade has come because too many people are too damn stupid to read what I've previously said, and not to notice that I have absolutely no interest in what you think I should do, or not. I will no longer stand for the sludge that's being thrown at this project, and I will not even acknowledge you if you flat out ignore what I've said multiple times before. 

How many times must I repeat myself before someone listens? Believe me, I wish I could use much stronger language than what I have in this message, however I like it here on TC, and don't want to go against the TOS in regards to language. The classical superiority complex which too many people here engage in has given me cause to erupt like Yellowstone. I do not care if you think it's "hard" to mingle Classical and Metal. It ain't. Simply because it doesn't fall within your preconceived notions about what it should be or sound like is not my concern, nor is your opinion needed, wanted, or in any other way desired. 

Too often in previous times, in previous groups, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on I've had people try to down-talk the project, and that I should "quit" and "leave it to the established people." I ain't standing for it anymore. This project will continue, regardless of anyone's consent, desire, or opinion.


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## prasad94

georgedelorean said:


> WARNING TO ALL FUTURE POSTERS. I have HAD IT with people listening to the rough, unbalanced, unmixed, non-mastered version of the Mors Stupebit which was posted, and not READING THE DISCLAIMER THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO SOUND LIKE IT WILL IN THE FINAL MASTERING. Please READ what I took the time to say IN THE DAMN VIDEO. I have NO PATIENCE LEFT for the stupidity of people who think that what was posted is the final version. I also will now say that I DON'T CARE what you think of the ENTIRE MASS BASED OFF ONE SONG WHICH I HAVE NOT EVEN YET RECORDED VOCALS FOR, NOR PROCESSED THE AUDIO ON.
> 
> Any further stupidity will be subsequently ignored, the message removed, and the person added to my ignore list. I also DON'T CARE what any other musician does/has done, and that I should be "more like so and so." I am me, and this is MY PROJECT, NOT YOURS. YOU HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT I DO. If you don't like what you hear, I DON'T CARE. Not everyone will. It's not my problem to make something that everyone will enjoy for all time. If you don't like it, oh well.
> 
> This tirade has come because too many people are too damn stupid to read what I've previously said, and not to notice that I have absolutely no interest in what you think I should do, or not. I will no longer stand for the sludge that's being thrown at this project, and I will not even acknowledge you if you either flat out ignore what I've said multiple times before.
> 
> How many times must I repeat myself before someone listens? Believe me, I wish I could use much stronger language than what I have in this message, however I like it here on TC, and don't want to go against the TOS in regards to language. The classical superiority complex which too many people here engage in has given me cause to erupt like Yellowstone. I do not care if you think it's "hard" to mingle Classical and Metal. It ain't. Simply because it doesn't fall within your preconceived notions about what it should be or sound like is not my concern, nor is your opinion needed, wanted, or in any other way desired.
> 
> Too often in previous times, in previous groups, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on I've had people try to down-talk the project, and that I should "quit" and "leave it to the established people." I ain't standing for it anymore. This project will continue, regardless of anyone's consent, desire, or opinion.


Also you in the Original Post: "If you have any questions, thoughts, or what-have-you, please feel free to comment. I'll get back with you as soon as I can. Thanks for reading."

Dude you asked for opinions, people spoke. If your perspective is that everyone is uneducated but yourself, then you're on a sinking ship. Fact is, these same "stupid people" are the ones who will listen to your music. If you're indulging yourself, then fine, but it's like being able to wank off for 30 minutes and then telling people you're great in bed.

Calm down and relax. People are judgmental, especially when the whole notion of classical superiority is the highlight of your argument. There are people who will try and make you feel inferior no matter what you do or who you are. Let them undermine you and be open to it, that way you'll find it easier to write music the way you want to, appealing to the people you want to. You threw your idea into the melting pot, and people threw theirs in with it. Distinguish what it is you want, let no one stop you, but realize that you co-exist with people who will taste what you put in the pot and tell if you if they like it or not.

PS, I read your disclaimer and imagined the draft with a full body in mind. I still hold my perspective that it could be better done, as you will probably hold yours. Fair game. I don't aim to provoke, I aim to give perspective. If you refuse to look at the angles, that's okay. You do you.


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## Sekhar

I've come to the rather sobering conclusion that folks who post music on forums aren't really looking for critique (even when they say they are): from my experience they either want to promote their music or just want someone to listen to stuff they worked on (which is not a bad thing). I thought Talk Classical would be better than Facebook, but I see similar push-back on critiques here as well. IMO it's best to only say only nice things (if they're genuine of course) and withhold critiques, and under no circumstances offer suggestions on what the poster should do to "fix" the music, whether or not they're justified.


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## georgedelorean

Critique is fine. I have no problem with that whatsoever. Yet when someone calls something "bad," that is not critiquing. What it is however is destructive criticism. Two completely different things. I have no problem with people offering suggestions. However to say that I _should_ do something the way that they "feel" I should, that's what the problem is. If someone wants to critique, they're welcome to do so. However when something isn't done to _their_ preferences, and they think that the composer should bend to their will, that's what makes my hackles sit up and turn red.

And the fact that I've posted and explained things *repeatedly* for everyone to read in regards to one particular piece out of what will be a total of 32, and then they refuse to either listen, or intentionally ignore what I've said is both unjustified and perturbing. Critiquing is supposed to be a forum for discussion and enlightenment, not a manifesto of dictating personal terms to an artist of any stripe. Be it musical or otherwise. You're completely right though, Sekhar, in that telling someone how to "fix" the music is completely unwarranted.

Also, people should never, ever compare someone to anyone else as it is the individual who is the artist, not a collective. It's one thing to contrast styles, processes, and the like for educational or intellectual purposes. It's something else entirely to tell someone, essentially to their face, that they "should be more like so and so." At that point, it becomes emulation, and the individuality of both people is diminished.


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## paulc

George,

I feel that you are perhaps expecting praise for work which is only half-finished (?). Lots of people on this board post completed pieces for critique and adulation, rather than mere demos. Perhaps you need to adjust your expectations (?). Your piece features a choir... but not yet? Let us hear the final version. 

I sadly posted some negative comments the other day while drunk. Ignore, lol.


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## nikola

paulc said:


> I sadly posted some negative comments the other day while drunk. Ignore, lol.


You're sadly obsessed with me :lol:


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## paulc

nikola said:


> You're sadly obsessed with me


Unfortunately, I wrote all of my negative comments about your music while sober. LOL

Nah.. I'm just giving you a hard time.  I'd like to see you learn more about composition, theory-wise.


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## nikola

You never wrote anything negative about my music... you only wrote that you're jealous that I'm better composer than you even without musical education


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## paulc

nikola said:


> you only wrote that you're jealous that I'm better composer than you even without musical education


That's it!


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## prasad94

Sekhar said:


> I've come to the rather sobering conclusion that folks who post music on forums aren't really looking for critique (even when they say they are): from my experience they either want to promote their music or just want someone to listen to stuff they worked on (which is not a bad thing). I thought Talk Classical would be better than Facebook, but I see similar push-back on critiques here as well. IMO it's best to only say only nice things (if they're genuine of course) and withhold critiques, and under no circumstances offer suggestions on what the poster should do to "fix" the music, whether or not they're justified.


What is best is not necessarily useful in improving ones' self. Ever seen the movie Whiplash? Sure it's an exaggerated film on the whole promising student VS antagonizing teacher roles, but it proves a point; "to shape something, you must beat it until it is molded. Beat it too hard and it will break, but the ones whom are worth shaping are the ones that can stand the beating." - something my teacher once told me, which I firmly believe in.

Like it or not, not everyone will like everything you make. Ideally, criticism is something people should be open to, destructive or not. One way or another, we write music to be heard, and if someone is having trouble hearing, then we should be understanding as to why they are. The initial reaction to criticism is usually "fight or flight", but there is a grey area of contemplation, if you sit and sort out the good and the bad of the critic, and that's the best way to learn from someone who criticizes your work.

Source: I used to perform in a joke of a band. People laughed at us and sneered behind our backs , but we accepted it and learned. Became a huge band in our local scene after persisting for years with all that and then silenced most critics.


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## Sekhar

prasad94 said:


> What is best is not necessarily useful in improving ones' self. Ever seen the movie Whiplash? Sure it's an exaggerated film on the whole promising student VS antagonizing teacher roles, but it proves a point; "to shape something, you must beat it until it is molded. Beat it too hard and it will break, but the ones whom are worth shaping are the ones that can stand the beating." - something my teacher once told me, which I firmly believe in.
> 
> Like it or not, not everyone will like everything you make. Ideally, criticism is something people should be open to, destructive or not. One way or another, we write music to be heard, and if someone is having trouble hearing, then we should be understanding as to why they are. The initial reaction to criticism is usually "fight or flight", but there is a grey area of contemplation, if you sit and sort out the good and the bad of the critic, and that's the best way to learn from someone who criticizes your work.
> 
> Source: I used to perform in a joke of a band. People laughed at us and sneered behind our backs , but we accepted it and learned. Became a huge band in our local scene after persisting for years with all that and then silenced most critics.


Hey, obviously one needs to be open to criticism and learn from it, the point is that just wanting folks to embrace critiques isn't going to make them embrace it. Definitely go ahead and seek and learn from critiques when you're on the receiving end (I certainly do, in fact I respect people who can can find faults in my work), but my suggestion is to think twice when you wear the critic's hat because we can change ourselves but not the world (or human nature).


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## Pugg

I do hope you are continuing your project georgedelorean .


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## georgedelorean

There's nothing or nobody who can sway me otherwise. I'm too obstinate to not continue.


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> There's nothing or nobody who can sway me otherwise. I'm too obstinate to not continue.


Good one you, looking forward to it.


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## georgedelorean

I will say though that I've taken a break from it for the time being as I have lots of other unrelated projects which were of more imperative. Can't rush quality to be sure.


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## georgedelorean

This place seems to have gone on without much activity. I'm moving over to a different website, so I'm gonna say sayonara to y'all. However, eljr, Pugg, and Phillovesclassical, you can catch me on Facebook at:

http://facebook.com/george.delorean.composer

Hope to see you there, and peace out.

Admins: Please leave everything up for 48 hours, and then delete my profile. Thank you.


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## Pugg

georgedelorean said:


> This place seems to have gone on without much activity. I'm moving over to a different website, so I'm gonna say sayonara to y'all. However, eljr, Pugg, and Phillovesclassical, you can catch me on Facebook at:
> 
> http://facebook.com/george.delorean.composer
> 
> Hope to see you there, and peace out.
> 
> Admins: Please leave everything up for 48 hours, and then delete my profile. Thank you.


I am very sorry yo see you go, please reconsider.


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