# Vocal Crises



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Reading about the vocal crises faced by singers like Goerke & Kaufmann has got me curious about other such instances that I may not know about. There are other instances that I do know, but even so I'm sure you all can shed some new light on many of them. So...what singers have faced them? What caused it? Did they overcome it? How did they overcome it? Were they different singers afterwards? Hook me up opera historians of TC!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Reading about the vocal crises faced by singers like Goerke & Kaufmann has got me curious about other such instances that I may not know about. There are other instances that I do know, but even so I'm sure you all can shed some new light on many of them. So...what singers have faced them? What caused it? Did they overcome it? How did they overcome it? Were they different singers afterwards? Hook me up opera historians of TC!


One of the most famous was Lucrezia Bori, who had vocal cord nodes, and had to stop singing for six years in mid-career.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Some of the greats have suffered from vocal crises - it does not need to spell the end but it does depend on the circumstances.

Luciano Pavarotti suffered from a vocal nodule very early on and gave up for a time before his condition improved and he made his debut in 1961:


> "Everything I had learned came together with my natural voice to make the sound I had been struggling so hard to achieve"


His 40+ year career suggests he learned from the experience and I don't recall repeats

Someone who did suffer a possible relapse was Nellie Melba who had problems with a vocal nodule around 1890 and suffered a similar flare up around the time she tried the role of Brunnhilde in 1897. That time required three months out and she suffered mentally and physically to near breakdown (biography called "I am Melba" by Ann Blainey). Given all her records were made after this period, we cannot tell if her timbre etc was affected but her vocal longevity was still remarkable and she sang for another twenty years

One singer whose vocal crisis pretty much ended her career was Amelita Galli-Curci. She had vocal problems because of a thyroid goitre and so she retired from the stage in 1930 and recitals until having an operation. Although she recovered her health, living til 1963, her performances as Mimi in 1936 were badly received because of perceived technical problems and her career dwindled thereafter. (Link to article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3631811/)


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I'll mention an obvious one in George London, who never recovered. The opera world was robbed of what should have been his best years.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sadly, Rolando Villazon ruined his voice when, as Edgardo in Lucia, he actually croaked the high note in the wedding scene, stopped dead, asked to do it again, and this time made it but destroyed his voice. One could see that it was going to happen from the beginning by the way he always forced his voice.
He opted for an operation rather than just stop talking for months and now his voice is relegated to Rossini/Mozart and directing etc.
Very very sad. Such a great talent, such a sad ending.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Sadly, Rolando Villazon ruined his voice when, as Edgardo in Lucia, he actually croaked the high note in the wedding scene, stopped dead, asked to do it again, and this time made it but destroyed his voice. One could see that it was going to happen from the beginning by the way he always forced his voice.
> He opted for an operation rather than just stop talking for months and now his voice is relegated to Rossini/Mozart and directing etc.
> Very very sad. Such a great talent, such a sad ending.


That's so sad. Cautionary tale for sure


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

davidglasgow said:


> Some of the greats have suffered from vocal crises - it does not need to spell the end but it does depend on the circumstances.
> 
> Luciano Pavarotti suffered from a vocal nodule very early on and gave up for a time before his condition improved and he made his debut in 1961: His 40+ year career suggests he learned from the experience and I don't recall repeats
> 
> ...


Do these cases usually happen from misuse of the voice, or just bad luck?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Astrid Varnay started singing all the big Wagner parts in her mid 20's before the voice matured and in her late 20's had a bad vocal crisis. Afterwards her voice sounded different. She was the same age as Nilsson, her equal as an artist, but by the time Nilsson made her Met debut, Varnay's soprano roles were mostly behind her. She sang for years as a mezzo, but her best years were before Nilsson's prime.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

And then there is Natalie Dessay -- she of stunning voice but throat troubles galore.
Another with voice problems is Marina Poplavskaya whose last times out were "Traviata", "Eugene Onegin" and "Faust".
She's done!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> And then there is Natalie Dessay -- she of stunning voice but throat troubles galore.
> Another with voice problems is Marina Poplavskaya whose last times out were "Traviata", "Eugene Onegin" and "Faust".
> She's done!


Natalie put down Joan Sutherland's singing. Joan sang well up into her 60's and was still world 
audience's darling. Natalie... not so much.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Tebaldi had a vocal crisis too.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/dec/20/guardianobituaries.artsobituaries1

_"That summer she returned to Covent Garden as Tosca, but thereafter she played more in the US, taking on new roles such as Maria in Simon Boccanegra, Manon Lescaut, Butterfly, Fedora and Minnie in La fanciulla del West. In February 1963, after a vocal crisis, she withdrew for a period of rest and re-study. By then, as recordings testify, she did tend to sing flat, and her high notes were unreliable. Back on stage in March 1964, her voice was better supported, though putting a finer focus on the tone gave an unpleasant edge to her upper range."_

I don't know a dime about singing, and don't pretend I do. Just paste a source I found on another site:

http://www.voiceteacher.com/heavy_repertoire.html

_"Any singer who possesses a lyrical instrument and pumps it larger than the voice is designed to function healthily is asking for major vocal trouble. In order to force a larger sound, a singer must begin to use tremendous tongue pressure (which depresses the larynx) in fundamental vocal production. This engages a thicker vocal cord mass which is unhealthy for the voice and distorts the registration. (Some call this vocal weight.) Too much heavy mechanism is pushed up too high and the result is vocal fatigue, register imbalance, vibrato problems, breath problems, and usually tremendous tongue tension. When a singer engages the depressed tongue as a support, the body connection is usually diminished. The fatigue is a result of both the depressed tongue and the thicker vocal cord mass being employed in the upper range. Some call this operatic or classical belting. Tragically, this is what happened to Renata Tebaldi's voice. Around 1967, her voice teacher told her that her voice had matured and it was time for her to perform dramatic roles. This quote is taken from an interview directly with Tebaldi from an early 1968 video called Four Ladies of the Opera by VAI. It seems bogus indeed that after her interview, her singing could be viewed as intolerable. The voice was so damaged at that point that she could not begin to reach the upper notes in tune. The high notes are completely under the pitch or false. What had one time been an easy and beautiful upper range was pushed and screamed. She had no ability to reach the upper register even with a lot of breath pressure. This video is a tragic example of the destruction of a once beautiful instrument; a tragic sacrifice of a voice for the sake of ego, competition, and basic ignorance about the voice. After employing such a depressed larynx technique, Sadly, Ms. Tebaldi never found anyone to help her solve her vocal issues. Her career gradually disappeared because of this major vocal decision. As many witnessed, the resulting vocal damage ruined her voice in a relatively short period of time. She was able to push her way through for a few more years. However, this technique of depressing the larynx ended her career prematurely. This is not to downplay the importance of Ms. Tebaldi's earlier career or the fact that she possessed a beautiful instrument and a great amount of vocal talent. But her mistake of pumping the voice larger than it was intended function by using a tremendous amount of breath pressure and tongue pressure destroyed her voice."_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Let's not forget two giants who tried to push their fach and destroyed their voices too young: Carerras and diStefano
(admittedly Carerras had cancer problems)


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Let's not forget two giants who tried to push their fach and destroyed their voices too young: Carerras and diStefano
> (admittedly Carerras had cancer problems)


I think Von Karajan was largely responsible for ruining Carreras. Of course Carreras could have said no, but that wouldn't have been easy.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

For every singer we know who suffered a vocal crisis at some point, there must be hordes who ran into trouble, never recovered, and disappeared before most of us even knew who they were. My guess is that this phenomenon is more common than it used to be, given that opera singers have such stressful lives compared to their predecessors in past eras, jetting constantly around the globe in order to sing engagements scheduled years in advance, and pressured to take on roles too heavy for them. How many of today's young stars will still be singing well in their fifties? How many of them are sounding a little troubled at 35 or 40?


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Do these cases usually happen from misuse of the voice, or just bad luck?


Pavarotti said his early vocal problems were psychological, causing a lot of tension to creep into his singing and it resolved quite quickly when he relaxed and sang with his "natural voice".

The example of Melba in 1897 was attributed to singing the wrong part - Brunnhilde - but I've not read enough to know if there were vocal changes which precipitated this big change in repertoire - perhaps the voice had darkened or thickened? The crisis itself certainly caused her psychological and physical harm.

I'd be surprised all the same if warning signs were not showing in the months and weeks leading up to the crisis, all the rehearsals and into early performances: seems particular bad luck for things to fall apart in performance before an audience with no warning. Perhaps there was a degree of hubris and wrong-headedness. Don't suppose we can really tell from a distance.

Galli-Curci's example seems to have been physiological - I don't think she essayed parts which were too heavy for her and if Mimi was not a good fit, she was trying to come to terms with a major vocal change. This really does seem one of those sad cases where bad luck dictated the end of a lovely voice which was well-used - especially given the physical impairment she was facing


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

davidglasgow said:


> The example of Melba in 1897 was attributed to singing the wrong part - Brunnhilde - but I've not read enough to know if there were vocal changes which precipitated this big change in repertoire - perhaps the voice had darkened or thickened? The crisis itself certainly caused her psychological and physical harm.
> 
> Perhaps there was a degree of hubris and wrong-headedness. Don't suppose we can really tell from a distance.


Melba was a prima donna in every sense of the word. She wasn't one to duck a challenge, or take a back seat to anyone. She got it into her head that she could sing dramatic soprano roles, and proceeded to bomb in Siegfried, which required some time off for vocal recovery. Why she attempted Aida after that I don't know, since she wasn't a success in it, and she intended to do Butterfly, but fortunately never got around to it. She had a superb vocal technique - "good singing," she said "is easy singing" - but her fantasy of being a Brunnhilde can only be put down to prima donna attitude.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Melba was a prima donna in every sense of the word. She wasn't one to duck a challenge, or take a back seat to anyone. She got it into her head that she could sing dramatic soprano roles, and proceeded to bomb in Siegfried, which required some time off for vocal recovery. Why she attempted Aida after that I don't know, since she wasn't a success in it, and she intended to do Butterfly, but fortunately never got around to it. She had a superb vocal technique - "good singing," she said "is easy singing" - but her fantasy of being a Brunnhilde can only be put down to prima donna attitude.


I can't fault Melba too much. If I was a lyric singer with a passion for Wagner I could see myself being guilty of the same mistakes lol


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

By coincidence, I am now reading the autobiography of Christa Ludwig, titled "In My Own Voice." She alludes to numerous vocal disasters, the most notable when she tried to take on dramatic soprano roles such as Brünnhilde and Isolde rather than Fricka and Brangäne. While I knew about those, I was more surprised to see her write something about having a "vocal disaster" singing Princess Eboli in Salzburg ... certainly a high mezzo-soprano role ... this in context of her admiration for Herbert von Karajan and how she left Salzburg immediately yet HvK never held it against her.

Christa Ludwig is just one of my all-time favorite singers, but she is not the one I would want to hear sing Lady Macbeth (another dramatic role she sang, minus the D-flat in "Vieni, t'affretta").

Kind regards,

George


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Barelytenor said:


> By coincidence, I am now reading the autobiography of Christa Ludwig, titled "In My Own Voice." She alludes to numerous vocal disasters, the most notable when she tried to take on dramatic soprano roles such as Brünnhilde and Isolde rather than Fricka and Brangäne. While I knew about those, I was more surprised to see her write something about having a "vocal disaster" singing Princess Eboli in Salzburg ... certainly a high mezzo-soprano role ... this in context of her admiration for Herbert von Karajan and how she left Salzburg immediately yet HvK never held it against her.


I didn't know she attempted Brunnhilde & Isolde. Wow!


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

"Attempted" may be too strong a word. I'm talking about the Siegfried Brünnhilde, which she refers to as the "shortest and highest" of the Brünnhilde roles. I don't know if she ever worked on the others. An extensive chronology in the back shows her singing Ariadne (auf Naxos), both Octavian and (later) the Marschallin (first time in Vienna 67-68), Marie in Wozzeck (67-68), yet in 69-70 she sang Waltraute, not Brünnhilde in Götterdammerung, and in 69-70 she was back to Octavian rather than the Marschallin in Buenos Aires. Fricka in Walküre in 70-71. Dyer's Wife in Frau Ohne Schatten in 72-73, Paris Palais Garnier. "Last Eboli with Karajan in Salzburg" 1975. Fascinating stuff.

From page 129: "In the 1960s, my voice moved continually higher, and Karajan believed that I could sing dramatic soprano roles with him because I occasionally sang excerpts, such as Brünnhilde's final narrative in Götterdämmerung, Isolde's Liebestod, and the Elektra Orestes duet ... on records or in concert. He also believed that I could sing the roles of Ariadne and the Dyer's Wife (with judicious cuts)."

But she found the Brünnhilde too high, although she pursued the Marschallin, apparently successfully. A month later (Sept. 1968) she wrote HvK to tell him she would not perform or record the Brünnhilde. In another place Christa Ludwig writes about singing the entire part of Isolde for her mother, Zinka Milanov and a musical friend. They said she sang it beautifully but "why do it when you sing Brangäne so well?" And Milanov pointed out that she (Ludwig) would soon be suffering menopause, another consideration for mature female singers. "I soon found out what Milanov meant."

Her book is well worth reading! And she certainly has a far kinder opinion of HvK that Birgit Nilsson said ... but then, he was a family friend of theirs and she remembers him from the time she was a very young girl.

Kind regards,

George


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Barelytenor said:


> "Attempted" may be too strong a word. I'm talking about the Siegfried Brünnhilde, which she refers to as the "shortest and highest" of the Brünnhilde roles. I don't know if she ever worked on the others. An extensive chronology in the back shows her singing Ariadne (auf Naxos), both Octavian and (later) the Marschallin (first time in Vienna 67-68), Marie in Wozzeck (67-68), yet in 69-70 she sang Waltraute, not Brünnhilde in Götterdammerung, and in 69-70 she was back to Octavian rather than the Marschallin in Buenos Aires. Fricka in Walküre in 70-71. Dyer's Wife in Frau Ohne Schatten in 72-73, Paris Palais Garnier. "Last Eboli with Karajan in Salzburg" 1975. Fascinating stuff.
> 
> From page 129: "In the 1960s, my voice moved continually higher, and Karajan believed that I could sing dramatic soprano roles with him because I occasionally sang excerpts, such as Brünnhilde's final narrative in Götterdämmerung, Isolde's Liebestod, and the Elektra Orestes duet ... on records or in concert. He also believed that I could sing the roles of Ariadne and the Dyer's Wife (with judicious cuts)."
> 
> ...


Another example of HVK attempting to push a voice beyond it's limits smh. I'm glad Ludwig was wise enough to pull out.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Another example of HVK attempting to push a voice beyond it's limits


What was it with him? Power? Projected megalomania? A Svengali complex? A God complex? A need to say "I made you what you are today"? Did he ever talk large-voiced singers into taking on smaller-voiced parts, or would that have run counter to a need for vicarious self-aggrandizement?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Nilsson and Ludwig, for whom Nilsson was a big fan, had their voice boxes looked at and they were of completely different types. Nilsson's was much more heavy duty and Ludwig was structured more for flexibility than power, if memory serves. Nilsson never thought she should sing dramatic soprano parts.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

We should not forget the vocal crisis of Debbie Voigt and Andrea Gruber who lost considerable quality after gastric bypasses. Fat Gruber had a glorious voice... after, not so much. Her career was over soon. Callas' weight loss contributed significantly to her vocal decline, which began after the weight loss, BUT she had also sung HUGE roles since her early 20's, which is not advised and some speculate an illness that added problems as well. For my part, I noticed the powerful, secure notes above the staff vanished quickly after her weight loss. In general I much, much prefer Callas prior to '53 , although there was some very good singing for the next year or so. The comparison of her Armida aria from 52 and a very short time later show loss in power already.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Christa Ludwig Sings Brünnhilde's Immolation-1963*

See and hear for yourself. I'd be interested in your opinions!






Enjoy!

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> We should not forget the vocal crisis of Debbie Voigt and Andrea Gruber who lost considerable quality after gastric bypasses. Fat Gruber had a glorious voice... after, not so much. Her career was over soon. Callas' weight loss contributed significantly to her vocal decline, which began after the weight loss, BUT she had also sung HUGE roles since her early 20's, which is not advised and some speculate an illness that added problems as well. For my part, I noticed the powerful, secure notes above the staff vanished quickly after her weight loss. In general I much, much prefer Callas prior to '53 , although there was some very good singing for the next year or so. The comparison of her Armida aria from 52 and a very short time later show loss in power already.


Hmmm. Somehow in my long life as an opera lover, I have never even _heard_ of (much less, _heard_) Andrea Gruber. I looked her up on Wikipedia and it mentions that she admitted in a 2005 interview that she had a severe drug addiction. But it never mentions anything about weight or weight loss. Her career was interrupted for rehab in the late 1990s, and then she was reengaged at the Met for Abigail and Turandot (so props to her for that), but her career seems to have faded soon after. When did she have the weight-loss surgery?

I wonder how I managed to miss her?

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barelytenor said:


> Hmmm. Somehow in my long life as an opera lover, I have never even _heard_ of (much less, _heard_) Andrea Gruber. I looked her up on Wikipedia and it mentions that she admitted in a 2005 interview that she had a severe drug addiction. But it never mentions anything about weight or weight loss. Her career was interrupted for rehab in the late 1990s, and then she was reengaged at the Met for Abigail and Turandot (so props to her for that), but her career seems to have faded soon after. When did she have the weight-loss surgery?
> 
> I wonder how I managed to miss her?
> 
> ...


She was a wonderful, fat Chrysothemis about 20 years ago. She lost 100 pounds or so and sang Lady MacBeth in Seattle some time later and didn't sound good. The big, lush sound was gone.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barelytenor said:


> See and hear for yourself. I'd be interested in your opinions!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually used to own this and really liked it, BUT there is a difference in singing a 15 minute piece and a whole Wagnerian opera. She did not keep up the dramatic soprano repertoire very long.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

^ Not to mention, Kna's leisurely tempo in the Immolation Scene could kill even the stoutest Wagnerian prima donna!

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Carreras ruined his voice? He was more famous after his leukemia than he was before. Has there ever been a tenor with more heart? And look at the love that he inspired in Pavarotti and Domingo that led to The Three Tenors. There are too many incredible performances by him after he supposedly ruined his voice to mention. Sometimes our greatest challenges can lead to the expression of our greatest gifts. Through his life and voice he has brought opera & inspiration to billions of people who might never care for opera at all and yet some listeners continue to see only ruination.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Larkenfield said:


> Carreras ruined his voice? He was more famous after his leukemia than he was before. Has there ever been a tenor with more heart? And look at the love that he inspired in Pavarotti and Domingo that led to The Three Tenors. There are too many incredible performances by him after he supposedly ruined his voice to mention. Sometimes our greatest challenges can lead to the expression of our greatest gifts. Through his life and voice he has brought opera & inspiration to billions of people who might never care for opera at all and yet some listeners continue to see only ruination.


I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the fact remains that his voice lost some of its lustre after HVK steered him into heavier rep.


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