# Sieben Kleiner Klavierstücke



## Kopachris

To better understand how to work _with_ tonality, I feel it would be best if I learned how to work _without_ tonality. I've been greatly inspired by Schoenberg's _Sechs Kleiner Klavierstücke_, and wish to compose my own atonal "kleiner Klavierstücke." IIRC, Schoenberg's SKK did not use twelve-tone technique--I will be using it, however, because it's a much easier way to keep music atonal. _These are practice pieces._

I have so far completed only the first of these seven short piano pieces.

Audio (I apologize for the MIDI): SoundCloud
Sheet music: Google Docs


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## Klavierspieler

I quite enjoyed it.

Is there a reason why you chose 3/8 rather than 3/4?


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## violadude

Klavierspieler said:


> I quite enjoyed it.
> 
> Is there a reason why you chose 3/8 rather than 3/4?


Since when does Klavierspieler like twelve tone music?


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## aleazk

i found it interesting. but why you avoid the counterpoint between the two hands?, just curious. it sounds like if there were only one single melodic line.


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## Kopachris

Klavierspieler said:


> I quite enjoyed it.


Thank you. 


Klavierspieler said:


> Is there a reason why you chose 3/8 rather than 3/4?


Not really; I had planned 2/4 but found the first couple bars to fit better with three eight notes instead of four.


aleazk said:


> i found it interesting. but why you avoid the counterpoint between the two hands?, just curious. it sounds like if there were only one single melodic line.


Doing only one melodic line like that 1) made it easier, since it's my first 12-tone composition, and 2) gave me the feel of... I guess you could call it "loneliness..." that I wanted.


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## Klavierspieler

violadude said:


> Since when does Klavierspieler like twelve tone music?


Since about a week ago, I felt like listening to something random, so I queued up some Berg.


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## Klavierspieler

Kopachris said:


> Not really; I had planned 2/4 but found the first couple bars to fit better with three eight notes instead of four.


I just asked because changing the time signature to 3/4 and halving the note values would make the piece look slower. Currently, your tempo marking is telling me Andante, but your notation is telling me Allegro.


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## violadude

Klavierspieler said:


> Since about a week ago, I felt like listening to something random, so I queued up some Berg.


Really? and it immediately clicked with you or what?


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## Kopachris

Klavierspieler said:


> I just asked because changing the time signature to 3/4 and halving the note values would make the piece look slower. Currently, your tempo marking is telling me Andante, but your notation is telling me Allegro.


Hmm... I never thought of it that way, probably because I don't play an instrument. Using eighth notes for the beat made it seem even slower for me. Oh, well. I changed it for you, and it only took fifteen seconds, so it's not a big deal.


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## Klavierspieler

violadude said:


> Really? and it immediately clicked with you or what?


Lyric Suite did, not so much the String Quartet. I haven't listened to too many truly "twelve-tone" pieces, though.


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## violadude

Klavierspieler said:


> Lyric Suite did, not so much the String Quartet. I haven't listened to too many truly "twelve-tone" pieces, though.


Nice! Most people dont get the Lyric Suite at first. Interesting that is the one that clicked with you because it is very "Schumann-like" in that it includes hidden initials and what not of him and the girl he loved like Schumann always did.


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## Kopachris

Two of seven complete: SoundCloud (the sheet music link in the OP has been updated)

This one was conceived of during a combined elementary/middle/high school "concert" and further developed while screaming, heathen children ran about the house before finally settling into bed. You could say that it's roughly in binary form. The ending took me a while to figure out. Eventually, I just settled for a straight statement of the inversion.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Very nice conventional music. Because I am extremely lazy could you put up the original series/row somewhere with all the retrogrades, inversions, retrograde inversions, re-inversions of the retrograde inversions augmented to a third of the original speed and transposed six semitones above, painted in pink polka dots and played in the middle register with the nose (if you included anything like that.) Anyway, I did like the music and I think it's a great way to know tonality better by just going completely away from it a little bit and writing serial music. It's a bit like just getting away from something we all take for granted to do something a little different so when we come back to that something, we can understand it better. Well done on your compositions.


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## Kopachris

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Very nice conventional music. Because I am extremely lazy could you put up the original series/row somewhere with all the retrogrades, inversions, retrograde inversions, re-inversions of the retrograde inversions augmented to a third of the original speed and transposed six semitones above, painted in pink polka dots and played in the middle register with the nose (if you included anything like that.) Anyway, I did like the music and I think it's a great way to know tonality better by just going completely away from it a little bit and writing serial music. It's a bit like just getting away from something we all take for granted to do something a little different so when we come back to that something, we can understand it better. Well done on your compositions.


1. Just a reminder: these are _practice pieces_. I wasn't trying to be unconventional.
2. I didn't fill out an entire matrix with all the transpositions and everything (I figured those out on the fly), but here's P, R, I, and RI.

Stück 1:









Stück 2:









3. :lol:
4. I agree
5. 12-tone, not serial
6. Thank you!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

On point 5. Well, not integral serialism, but I prefer the term "serial" to "twelve-tone" or "dodecaphonic" because it has can describe a larger range of music whether it's partial, integral or dodecaphonic as your Klavierstücke are. It describes the music as being based around a series of pitches or other musical element for example rhythm or dynamics.


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## Klavierspieler

Kopachris said:


> 2. I didn't fill out an entire matrix with all the transpositions and everything (I figured those out on the fly), but here's P, R, I, and RI.
> 
> Stück 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stück 2:


Pssst!!

http://classic.musictheory.net/98


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## Kopachris

Klavierspieler said:


> Pssst!!
> 
> http://classic.musictheory.net/98


Huh. I usually do this when I'm away from home and don't have access to the general Internet, but I might use that if I remember to when I get home or before I leave.


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## Klavierspieler

So, the only real comment I have is that "Spiccato" conveys absolutely nothing to the mind of a pianist. What exactly were you meaning by it?

Sehr gut, otherwise.


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## Kopachris

Klavierspieler said:


> So, the only real comment I have is that "Spiccato" conveys absolutely nothing to the mind of a pianist. What exactly were you meaning by it?
> 
> Sehr gut, otherwise.


Slightly detached and jumpy, but not quite enough to warrant an accent mark. Smoother when under the phrasing slurs (but not quite legato), definitely detached when not under them (or between them). Some rubato wouldn't be amiss.

And thank you.


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## Klavierspieler

Perhaps "Sciolto" might be what you're looking for?


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## Kopachris

Almost. "Light, free, and easy" wasn't quite what I was going for, though.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Leggero e staccato?


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## Klavierspieler

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Leggero e staccato?


Or "Leggero e separato?"


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## Kopachris

Perhaps. Would that indicate the same thing to a performer as the indication "leggero" for a passage of staccato notes, so that a passage encompassed by a slur would be interpreted as "leggero," with mezzo staccato? Because that's what I'm looking for. Of course, I meant for it to be open to interpretation. If I had a _very_ particular effect in mind, I would have just replicated it in the MIDI file, rather than leaving LilyPond's MIDI file alone.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^You could always just write in clear, plain English exactly how you want the passage articulated...

And get a live performer not a computer.


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## Kopachris

True, except I don't have any exact specifications for how I want it articulated. It's all open to interpretation. I'll change the indication to "leggero con rubato" instead of "spiccato," though. Thanks for the feedback.


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