# Schumann Fantasy/Liszt Sonata in B Minor



## robatsch (Aug 17, 2015)

Which of these two great Romantic piano works do you find more compelling to listen to? I love the Schumann Fantasy's 1st and last movements but think it is weakened overall by the 2nd movement March. To me, the Liszt Sonata is much more seamless and beautiful throughout the entire work.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I had never even heard of either work, so I've got some homework  I am somewhat a Liszt fan and know much less of Schumann, with the exception the Symphonies.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

The Liszt sonata is a masterwork beyond description but I'm not familiar with the Schumann piece.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm quite familiar with the Liszt sonata, less so with the Schumann. Time for some listening!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I think they're both magnificent and would have a hard time choosing, but will opt for the Liszt because of its epic scope. It's a beautifully crafted structure, and by the end you feel as if you've taken a major journey.

The Schumann is interesting for the fact that it begins in the supertonic/subdominant and you don't hear a tonic chord until you're some distance into it. Not the first work to start you off suspended somewhere above the ground, but I can't think of an earlier one that beats around the bush for so long a time, and to such great effect.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

Wait, never mind. I do know the Schumann pretty well and love it also. I'd probably still stick with my original pick though, the Liszt Sonata.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

The Schumann Op. 17 Fantasie is a long time favourite. I may even have overplayed my Brendel LP to the extent that I have become too familiar with it and have subsequently neglected it in favour of lesser known works. To compensate, I'm listening to Argerich's 1978 recording as I type (reissued on Sony Classics in 2012, and I have the excellent Finghin Collins' version too). I know Schumann's music for solo piano quite well (as a listener, I hasten to add), and I think there is something "essential" about this work, as if it represents what Schumann was doing at this time (1836-9). 

The Liszt B minor sonata is certainly also compelling and of course very fiery and dramatic, but I haven't found the same lasting poetry in it. The Liszt that I come back to repeatedly is, rather, the three books of the "Années de pèlerinage". But great works, both, obviously.


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

Both very nice, but the extremes and drama in the b-minor makes it more attractive to me. My favorite version is Pletnev by the way, followed by Argerich, but I also quite like the exaggerated and controversial version by Buniatishvili.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Agree quite wholeheartedly with the OP, the Fantasy is great in parts but also has some less interesting moments, whereas the Sonata is a consistent masterpiece & has better sense of coherence.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> Agree quite wholeheartedly with the OP, the Fantasy is great in parts but also has some less interesting moments, whereas the Sonata is a consitent masterpiece & has better sense of coherence.


I feel exactly the opposite. The sonata has an enormous _longeur_ in the quiet music in the middle, it's a formless and rambling rag bag, overblown and cloying. The only bit of it I like are the mysterious chords (nine?) at the end. The fantasy is OK.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Agree quite wholeheartedly with the OP, the Fantasy is great in parts but also has some less interesting moments, whereas the Sonata is a consitent masterpiece & has better sense of coherence.


The Sonata ought to 'cohere' - there isn't a lot of subject matter in it anyway. 

These are two masterpieces, not much alike. Well, they _are_ for solo piano...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Musicophile said:


> Both very nice, but the extremes and drama in the b-minor makes it more attractive to me. My favorite version is Pletnev by the way, .


There are two by Pletnev, I remember appreciating the first more than the second (the first is a Melodiya recording) My own favourite sonata is Ernst Levy's.

Pletnev's Schumann Fantasie is good too, in an introverted, reticent, tasteful, sensitive sort of way.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I like the Schumann Fantasy, but never found it as interesting or compelling as the Liszt Sonata. The Sonata is a fantastic piece of music in many respects. Then again, I might be biased because I've never really been drawn to Schumann


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

My remarks concerning the Sonata´s coherence is that of a layman: a sort of sense of novelistic ongoings and coherence in the motifs, a psychological sequence, as a contrast to the more block-like Fantasy.


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> There are two by Pletnev, I remember appreciating the first more than the second (the first is a Melodiya recording)


Thanks for sharing, wasn't aware of this. I was referring to his DG recording, which I know is not universally liked.

I'll check out the Melodiya version.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

The Schumann Fantasy was dedicated to Liszt, the Liszt sonata to Schumann.

I'm reading a book on Lizst now that starts out with a detailed analysis of the sonata. Up till now, I have not listened to this work, since I never had much interest in exploring the Liszt canon, but I plan on listening to it soon.

The Schumann Fantasy has always been in my own personal top ten favorites list (since I first heard it in 1973 - Geza Anda version on DG). For me, it is the essence of reflective (as opposed to bombastic) romanticism.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> My remarks concerning the Sonata´s coherence is that of a layman: a sort of sense of novelistic ongoings and coherence in the motifs, a psychological sequence, as a contrast to the more block-like Fantasy.


If the Fantasy had a 'problem' (I think it doesn't) it would be because of skewed intent. Its first movement is a kind of love poem. Then Schumann decided to make the work an homage to Beethoven - starting with the next movement. I was much younger when I first heard it, during a time when I sort of dreamed a sort of vague story line while listening to some Romantic music. The 'sort of story line' always broke up during the middle movement of this work.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ukko said:


> If the Fantasy had a 'problem' (I think it doesn't) it would be because of skewed intent. Its first movement is a kind of love poem. Then Schumann decided to make the work an homage to Beethoven - starting with the next movement. I was much younger when I first heard it, during a time when I sort of dreamed a sort of vague story line while listening to some Romantic music. The 'sort of story line' always broke up during the middle movement of this work.


Oh but the second movement is a kind of love poem too! A epic poem about a battle between two lovers -- Florestan and Eusebius. And the third is a love poem too, an elegy for Eusebius's loss, and a great heroic gesture of defiance on the part of the lover manqué .

Sokolov is really interesting for making sense of this for me. It's one of those performances which completely changed my view of the piece. In II, he holds back the tempos, with the result that it's like a real struggle, not just a triumphant swagger from Florestan. II is battle, which Florestan resoundingly wins. In fact, there's one point, just before the Etwas bewegter where there seems to be a dispute between Eusebius and Florestan - every time Florestan says something, Eusebius (unsuccessfully) tries to respond. No one else I know comes close to paying that passage like that: no one finds so such music in it. The Etwas bewegter has never been a more still and peaceful eye of the storm.

And III is very idiosyncratic. Most striking are the forte passages, which sound more like acts of defiance on the part of Eusebius, with accented bass notes sounding like a passing bell, mourning for his loss. For the first time, thanks to Sokolov, I saw why III ends so positively.

Here, I don't think it has ever been a commercial recording


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

These might be the two greatest pieces of music that I don't like at all. I'm not sure why.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I really like the Schumann Fantasy, I fail to connect with the Liszt work so far. I do sense it probably is the great work it has the reputation of being, but its like Liszt is speaking a language in this Sonata I don't understand.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Two monumental works. I find more poetry in the Schumann and discover ever more on repeated listens. The Liszt tends to wear its heart on its sleeve.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

I refuse to make a choice. I know both quite well, the Schumann possibly better. I think Sviatoslav Richter's version in the Philips Great Pianists series is near perfect (ie, not the 1979 account in the recent Universal complete box, which I also have). The Liszt is more formally perfect, and is also superb. I love Schumann's fallibilities - what the OP considers weakens the work, I think shows his passionate humanity. Besides Richter I have Kempff, Brendel, Arrau, Curzon, Freire and Ashkenazy. All insightful and worth hearing. 
the Liszt B minor, I have Brendel (2), de Larrocha, Arrau, Curzon, Barenboim, Trifonov, Sandor, Pogorelich, Fleisher, Argerich. Pollini, Pletnev, Richter, Horowitz and an Australian pianist, Michael Kieran harvey. I don't feel able to name a favourite. But those I would turn to first include Brendel, Curzon, Argerich, Pollini, Pletnev and Richter.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

They are really quite different pieces of the romantic era that it is impossible to choose between them in my view. Just put n ne of the great pianists and enjoy! 
For the fantasy try Richter, Anda, Horowitz, Argerich, Polloni, Peraihia, et al
For the sonata, Argerich, Richter, Anda, Cherkassky, Horowitz,

The list is endless!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

It´s been a while since I heard the Fantasy & I´m not able to discern the recordings much, but have

CD Beroff/ emi 5cd 50999 501739-2
CD Argerich/originals 69-xx sh851 (not DG)
LP Argerich/cbs 78 76713
CD Horowitz/cbs-sony 46-2013 887654 841-38
lp Horowitz/cbs 2lp 65-xx m2s 728
LP Joeres/emi 76 1c 057 30654
LP Perlemuter/dover mono hcr 5204
LP Richter/mel 026947-48
LP Frankel/vox 3lp svx 5471
LP Anda/dg 63-xx 2535 364
LP Bolet/decca 87 417 401-1

But I´ve been positively surprised generally by Beroff´s Schumann, available as a low-price EMI box (his Prokofiev concertos were not to my ears, and far from the brilliant virtuosity of say Krainev/Kitayenko/MosSO, or Argerich´s (1+3), or Lundi Yi (2), but his Stravinsky OK).


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

DavidA said:


> They are really quite different pieces of the romantic era that it is impossible to choose between them in my view. Just put n ne of the great pianists and enjoy!
> For the fantasy try Richter, Anda, Horowitz, Argerich, Polloni, Peraihia, et al
> For the sonata, Argerich, Richter, Anda, Cherkassky, Horowitz,
> 
> The list is endless!


Well said! But if the Liszt is endless, so is the Schumann. I'll never tire of them.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I think they're both magnificent and would have a hard time choosing, but will opt for the Liszt because of its epic scope. It's a beautifully crafted structure, and by the end you feel as if you've taken a major journey.
> 
> The Schumann is interesting for the fact that it begins in the supertonic/subdominant and you don't hear a tonic chord until you're some distance into it. Not the first work to start you off suspended somewhere above the ground, but I can't think of an earlier one that beats around the bush for so long a time, and to such great effect.


I'm listening to it now and that beginning was pretty impressionistic, I thought I had the wrong piece or something....it sounds like something Liszt would write


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I've always felt that Schumann was more of a communicator than many other composers, including Liszt. He was a poet who spoke to our 'inner child' with the kinder pieces and so on. The Fantasy just has more memorable themes.


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## Chopiniana93 (Sep 6, 2015)

Cosmos said:


> I like the Schumann Fantasy, but never found it as interesting or compelling as the Liszt Sonata. The Sonata is a fantastic piece of music in many respects. Then again, I might be biased because I've never really been drawn to Schumann


It's exactly the same for me! I already listened to the Fantasia interpreted by Pletnev. I like it, but I think that the Sonata of Liszt is a perfect masterpiece!! Liszt is the master of the _grandeur_ and this piece is a really good evidence about that. I love the interpretations of Pletnev, Argerich and Luis Lortie and almost 5 years ago I participated also to a masterclass of Brendel where he spoked about this piece.


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