# B. B. King



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Anyone around here like B. B. King's bluesaaah sound?

I sure do - his Live at the Regal is a solid album, lots of fun listening to it - wonderful improvisational skill and a 'taste' for the intricacies of music.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I like B.B. King but the only album of his I've ever owned is Indianola Mississippi Seeds. Heard him on lots of samplers etc.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Saw him in London with the Crusders (I had that album) aand ten years later on a floating stage in Nashville. Great showman but I always thought his guitar sound a little strangled for my tastes.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Can anybody beat this lyric? "Nobody loves me but my mother, but she might be jivin' too."


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

BB is one of the GREAT bluesmen!


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I've never been wild about the blues. I am not against the genre, but it pretty much all sounds the same to me. The vast majority of it has the same rhythm or beat (I just don't know the proper term for it) and the lyrics are typically a variation of "my baby done left me-and that ain't good," or someting that sounds kind of like that :lol: I think all you need is one blues album and just put it on repeat: then you'll have heard them all 

[I should add that I am very fond of Mose Allison's humour and I like his style of blues-one album's worth, anyway ]


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The 60s live album Blues Is King is a must have. It's fantastic! And I like the 60s studio album, My Kind Of Blues.

















BB King was a great blues singer, but I like Bobby Blue Bland even more. The 2 disc anthology is a great collection featuring 50 tracks. This retails for under 8 dollars at Amazon.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

brotagonist said:


> [I should add that I am very fond of Mose Allison's humour and I like his style of blues-one album's worth, anyway ]


I'm a big Mose Allison fan! I caught him in concert two times. Even at age 77, he sounded great! I have an excellent 2 disc anthology called Allison Wonderland.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I actually do have a very few blues albums (aside from Mose Allison):










I like Willie's lyrics. We've got a good understanding!










One of John Lee Hooker's early albums: acoustic.

Oh, one other. The other two, I've had for decades. This one I got about 2 years ago:










I heard Laurie's version of St. James Infirmary on the radio and I could barely speak: I was that gabberflasted. The rest of the album is nice, but it didn't hit me like that one song did. Blues just doesn't do it like Schoenberg does


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

You know, I've a nice collection of blues recordings but none by B.B. King. Comparatively speaking I don't think he was all that great.

My top Blues/Gospel guys:
(In no particular order)

Lead Belly
Skip James
Howlin' Wolf
Blind Willie Johnson
Muddy Waters
Robert Johnson (A lot of rockers worship him but he's only _one_ of many greats.)


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I used to have a Buddy Guy album... but I pawned it  I think he's pretty good, too, but I still stand by my basic premise that it all is very similar.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't buy the all sounds similar viewpoint. Albert Collins sounds nothing like John Lee Hooker. And T-Bone Walker doesn't sound anything like Buddy Guy. And you've got New Orleans piano like Professor Longhair and Dr. John. And there's the Delta Bluesmen that Morimur listed. And there's Albert King who played his guitar upside down because he was a lefty, but he didn't restring the guitar, so the low E is on the bottom. Nobody sounded like him except for the imitators like Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Freddie King doesn't sound like Albert King. Muddy Waters had a unique slide sound. And nobody sang like Howlin' Wolf except white imitator, Captain Beefheart.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Tom waits ripped off Wolf's style as well.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I admire BB King and respect the huge influence he had but I've never been a fan - I've always preferred the more raucous 'Chicago' electric blues guitar of Willie Johnson, Hubert Sumlin and Muddy Waters or the old Delta artists like Bukka White and Charlie Patton.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I don't buy the all sounds similar viewpoint.


I lot of other people have noticed it, though. I asked the question on google and found numerous articles talking about exactly that: why blues all sounds the same. A good answer is found on quora:

Basic blues harmony includes only 3 chords, blues licks might sound "all the same" to many people.... The simple structure helps you to "keep it simple" and say it out straught [sic].

A commenter said: "Because there are only four chords to a blues song. Same holds true for most rock songs as well."

On Slashdot, in relation to popular music, I found this quote:

_"A study of music from the '50 to the present using the Million Song Dataset has concluded that modern music has less variation than older music and songs today are, on average, 9dB louder than 50 years ago. Almost all music uses just 10 chords, but the way these are used together has changed, leading to fewer types of transitions being used. Variation in timbre has also reduced over the past decades."_


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> _"A study of music from the '50 to the present using the Million Song Dataset has concluded that modern music has less variation than older music and songs today are, on average, 9dB louder than 50 years ago. Almost all music uses just 10 chords, but the way these are used together has changed, leading to fewer types of transitions being used. Variation in timbre has also reduced over the past decades."_


Yeah, that's why pop music sucks. Booyah!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Why BB is called King of the Blues.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

brotagonist said:


> I lot of other people have noticed it, though. I asked the question on google and found numerous articles talking about exactly that: why blues all sounds the same. A good answer is found on quora:
> 
> Basic blues harmony includes only 3 chords, blues licks might sound "all the same" to many people.... The simple structure helps you to "keep it simple" and say it out straught [sic].
> 
> ...


I don't listen to blues for musical challenges. I listen to it because it's about life. Of course it's basic and simple, it the blues. But this doesn't mean anyone can do it. Simple is not always easy. And I'm only interested in the artists with some personality. Not the young white guitar slingers. And I enjoy the vocal aspect of this kind of music. Viceral and from the heart. But to approach it from an intellectual and analytical point of view relying on computer generated statistics seems a bit misguided. But like all things in life, variety is what keeps it interesting, so I don't listen to nothing but the blues.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Blues music is complex and sophisticated in its own way. As Starthrower pointed out, not just anyone can do it. It takes a supremely gifted and artistic individual to rise to the level of a Lead Belly or Muddy Waters, otherwise we'd all be famous and successful Blues musicians.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

It has to be musical and soulful, like any good music. And some life experience helps. No 16 year old guitar slinger is gonna move me like Son House or Albert Collins.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I don't listen to blues for musical challenges. I listen to it because it's about life. Of course it's basic and simple, it the blues. But this doesn't mean anyone can do it. Simple is not always easy. And I'm only interested in the artists with some personality. Not the young white guitar slingers. And I enjoy the vocal aspect of this kind of music. Viceral and from the heart. But to approach it from an intellectual and analytical point of view relying on computer generated statistics seems a bit misguided. But like all things in life, variety is what keeps it interesting, so I don't listen to nothing but the blues.


Agreed. Lots of snobby comments of late, imo. Blues is not meant to be as complex as classical, one doesn't listen to it for complexity, but for the quality of the improvisation, for its directness and its natural 'drive'.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Certainly no 16 year old is going to produce something like this.

Yes, I know it's a long way from B.B. King.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

brotagonist said:


> I lot of other people have noticed it, though. I asked the question on google and found numerous articles talking about exactly that: why blues all sounds the same. A good answer is found on quora:
> 
> Basic blues harmony includes only 3 chords, blues licks might sound "all the same" to many people.... The simple structure helps you to "keep it simple" and say it out straught [sic].
> 
> ...


I think that talking of the blues people seem to think of just one thing. But just listen few seconds and tell me that pieces like these sound similar (all blues stuff):

Miles Davis - Footprints





George Russell - Beast blues





Don Ellis - Turkish bath





Jobim - Agua de beber





Stevie Wonder - Living for the city





Horace Silver - Nutville





Joe Henderson - Punjab





Joe Farrell - Moon germs





etc


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Dr Johnson said:


> Certainly no 16 year old is going to produce something like this.
> 
> Yes, I know it's a long way from B.B. King.


This older kind of blues doesn't click that well with me. B. B. just does it right.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> It has to be musical and soulful, like any good music. And some life experience helps. No 16 year old guitar slinger is gonna move me like Son House or Albert Collins.


But this bluesman in his mid 20s will.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2015)

Dr Johnson said:


> Certainly no 16 year old is going to produce something like this.
> 
> Yes, I know it's a long way from B.B. King.


How's about Bukka White?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Dr Johnson said:


> Certainly no 16 year old is going to produce something like this.
> 
> Yes, I know it's a long way from B.B. King.


Skip James is one of my favorite blues musicians.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

^^

Haven't heard his stuff.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Dr Johnson said:


> ^^
> 
> Haven't heard his stuff.


The clip you posted-that's him. The guy sounds like a weepy voiced serial killer or something; no other blues man sings like him. And his guitar playing is phenomenal.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Count me as one of the people who doesn't care for B.B. King. To me, it's blues stripped of its vital components, nice easy listening music that won't offend grandma ─ Clapton blues. I'll take Son House, Howlin' Wolf, Clarence Gatemouth Brown, Guitar Slim, Willie Dixon, John Hammond Jr., J.B. Lenoir, and a bunch of others over that stuff any day.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> Count me as one of the people who doesn't care for B.B. King. To me, it's blues stripped of its vital components, nice easy listening music that won't offend grandma ─ Clapton blues. I'll take Son House, Howlin' Wolf, Clarence Gatemouth Brown, Guitar Slim, Willie Dixon, John Hammond Jr., J.B. Lenoir, and a bunch of others over that stuff any day.


Must blues offend?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Must blues offend?


Not quite what I was getting at. "Won't offend grandma" was intended to allude to the idea that the blues, rhythm and blues, rock 'n' roll etc. used to be considered the music of undesirables, at least until nice clean-cut white people came along and made it palatable for other nice clean-cut white people. B.B. King's blues is an exceptionally "white" blues, by which I mean it is very clean, no surprises, no roughness or rawness, a far cry from Son House banging away on an out-of-tune Dobro. I don't want to tell anyone what they can and can't like, that's cheap and stupid and has never been my style, but to my ear it just sounds homogeneous and insipid, and I can't reconcile that with what I think of as the blues in any way.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> Not quite what I was getting at. "Won't offend grandma" was intended to allude to the idea that the blues, rhythm and blues, rock 'n' roll etc. used to be considered the music of undesirables, at least until nice clean-cut white people came along and made it palatable for other nice clean-cut white people. B.B. King's blues is an exceptionally "white" blues, by which I mean it is very clean, no surprises, no roughness or rawness, a far cry from Son House banging away on an out-of-tune Dobro. I don't want to tell anyone what they can and can't like, that's cheap and stupid and has never been my style, but to my ear it just sounds homogeneous and insipid, and I can't reconcile that with what I think of as the blues in any way.


Hm, well I think you're trying to 'objectively' attempt to disparage B.B. King, but to me most of the 'other' blues artists don't sound nearly as melodic or inspired as B. B. King. There's much subjectivity here, we must remember that.

In addition, B. B. King has inspired a ton of blues guitarists, I wouldn't think that there would be no reason for that.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Hm, well I think you're trying to 'objectively' attempt to disparage B.B. King, but to me most of the 'other' blues artists don't sound nearly as melodic or inspired as B. B. King. There's much subjectivity here, we must remember that.


I'm not offended, though perhaps I should be, given my track record here for challenging people who do just what you suggest I'm trying to do. I do not like the music of B.B. King, it does not overlap with my conception of the blues, those are essentially the only points I have made, if you think I have been mean spirited in making them then I don't really know what to say.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> I'm not offended, though perhaps I should be, given my track record here for challenging people who do just what you suggest I'm trying to do. I do not like the music of B.B. King, it does not overlap with my conception of the blues, those are essentially the only points I have made, if you think I have been mean spirited in making them then I don't really know what to say.


Well yes, but you don't seem to allow the conjecture, that other people may enjoy other aspects of blues than you do.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I have to agree with Crudblud - BB King's blues does sound...well, I hate to use the word 'sanitised' bearing in mind the man's origins and work ethic, but I just can't hear any real pain or hardship there, and what humour there is isn't as earthy as the original Delta stuff either. Even his peak-year output sounded more supper club than juke joint to me.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I wonder what state the 'Blues' genre is in now. I don't think there's anything out there now on par with what came before it.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Well yes, but you don't seem to allow the conjecture, that other people may enjoy other aspects of blues than you do.


Not at all, if other people like B.B. King and think he is one of the finest blues players, more power to them. As I said, I'm not in the business of telling other people what they can and cannot like.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Morimur said:


> I wonder what state the 'Blues' genre is in now. I don't think there's anything out there now on par with what came before it.


I think the same can be said about a lot of music that has a rural tradition - that's why I feel queasy about British Isles folk heritage and the fact that a band as dull as Mumford & Sons could sell more albums in one year than Fairport Convention could do in their whole career.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Morimur said:


> I wonder what state the 'Blues' genre is in now.


Mississippi, mostly.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

GreenMamba said:


> Mississippi, mostly.


I was so tempted to crack a similar gag but it seemed more appropriate to come from a laconic American.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

I'd rather use protection.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

My collection includes BB King, Albert King, Alan Haynes, Clapton (From the Cradle is a great Clapton blues album), Fred MdDowell, Muddy Waters, Reverend Pearly Brown, Howling Wolf, Jimi Hendrix (Blues is a great CD), tons of Johnny Winter, Sonny Terry, Tom Feldmann, others I can't remember right now. I like blues music.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Morimur said:


> I wonder what state the 'Blues' genre is in now. I don't think there's anything out there now on par with what came before it.


There's some fine artists doing there thing today. I'm a fan of two cats from Louisiana. Larry Garner from Baton Rouge, and Mem Shannon from New Orleans. Both good songwriters, singers, and guitarists. And Mem has a great sense of humor.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Frank Zappa is one of my favorite blues guitarists. This tune is a lot of fun, and contains some great solos from Frank, and George Duke.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Problem is, the vast majority of great blues guitarists very influenced by B. B. King.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Problem is, the vast majority of great blues guitarists very influenced by B. B. King.


They need to take Johnny Winter's advice and listen to a lot of different old bluesmen as well as other kinds of music. BB was one of Johnny's idols, but Johnny doesn't sound like BB.


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## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

Good point. I'd say, same for srv


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Stevie Ray Vaughan's idols were Hendrix, Albert King, and Buddy Guy. And he definitely phrased a lot like Albert King.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

the problem is that today tons of guys sound as Stevie Ray Vaughan and Johnny Winter, with that kind of endless, virtuosistic, muscular pentatonic solo. Sometimes it seems that today it's the only possible way to play blues, no wonder that a lot of people complain that the genre sounds all the same.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

What about Robben Ford? He's been around for decades, and he has an instantly recognizable sound. And he's a great live player with a very talented band. A caught him about a year and a half ago. He phrases with a lot of taste, and he doesn't play too many notes. And he writes good material.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Problem is, the vast majority of great blues guitarists very influenced by B. B. King.


Maybe the generations that came after? When I think of "great blues guitarists", they're not all people influenced by BB King. And I don't see it as a problem. Just as many players were influenced by Robert Johnson. Somebody had to establish the vocabulary. Listen to those Robert Johnson recordings and you can hear the licks and phrases everybody uses today. Same with Chuck Berry. He developed the rock n roll guitar vocabulary everybody picked up on. I use terms like establish and develop because no one musician created all this stuff. Even the masters had their influences. But it's their recordings everybody else learned from.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

norman bates said:


> the problem is that today tons of guys sound as Stevie Ray Vaughan and Johnny Winter, with that kind of endless, virtuosistic, muscular pentatonic solo. Sometimes it seems that today it's the only possible way to play blues, no wonder that a lot of people complain that the genre sounds all the same.


I disagree. I have only come across one guy who sounds like Johnny Winter and he admits that Johnny Winter was a huge inspiration to him. Here is Alan playing a song Johnny loved to play (by the way, that guitar he is playing once belonged to SRV):





Here is a You Tube noting use of SRVs guitar: Alan Haynes plays SRV's 1960 red Strat


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Florestan said:


> I disagree. I have only come across one guy who sounds like Johnny Winter and he admits that Johnny Winter was a huge inspiration to him. Here is Alan playing a song Johnny loved to play (by the way, that guitar he is playing once belonged to SRV):


well, try to have a look to a board like thegearpage, you will discover how much their influence is pervasive.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> Maybe the generations that came after? When I think of "great blues guitarists", they're not all people influenced by BB King. And I don't see it as a problem. Just as many players were influenced by Robert Johnson. Somebody had to establish the vocabulary. Listen to those Robert Johnson recordings and you can hear the licks and phrases everybody uses today. Same with Chuck Berry. He developed the rock n roll guitar vocabulary everybody picked up on. I use terms like establish and develop because no one musician created all this stuff. Even the masters had their influences. But it's their recordings everybody else learned from.


By the way, there are amazing bluesmen that haven't been influential at all, for the simple reason they were too difficult to replicate. My favorite bluesman ever, Robert Pete Williams, is a good example of that. Pee Wee Russell playing the blues on clarinet is another. They were AMAZING musicians, but it's difficult to think of someone that sounds like them.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Ever listen to Freddie Roulette? A unique lap steel player. The older musicians coming up before the age of mass media had their regional influences, so they deveoped individual styles before everything became homogenized.

But I'm interested in the whole package. Not just instrumental styles, but singing and songwriting.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

norman bates said:


> the problem is that today tons of guys sound as Stevie Ray Vaughan and Johnny Winter, with that kind of endless, virtuosistic, muscular pentatonic solo. Sometimes it seems that today it's the only possible way to play blues, no wonder that a lot of people complain that the genre sounds all the same.


You hit the nail on head.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Hey, I uploaded some stuff that doesn't sound like them, but I guess nobody listened. And why give SRV the credit? He was a copy cat. He just played louder. Nobody mentioned Johnny Guitar Watson and Magic Sam. Everbody copied them too.

You have the same thing in jazz. Everybody copied Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, John Coltrane, and Wes Montgomery. But I'm not gonna complain about Eric Dolphy, Sonny Rollins, Stan Getz, Chick Corea, Michael Brecker, or Pat Martino because they were influenced. They took it somewhere else. But beyond the 80s, I don't hear too many unique voices in jazz. You had Pat Metheny, John Scofield, Bill Frisell, and Allan Holdsworth. Who came after them that sounds unique? And there's nobody unique on vibes after Bobby Hutcherson and Gary Burton.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> Hey, I uploaded some stuff that doesn't sound like them,


I did it too!



starthrower said:


> And why give SRV the credit? He was a copy cat. He just played louder. Nobody mentioned Johnny Guitar Watson and Magic Sam. Everbody copied them too.


I really like them, and I know that Johnny Guitar Watson was an influence on Zappa and Hendrix, but who are the heirs of Magic Sam?
Anyway probably there are exceptions, but there's a reason if in the mind of many blues today means long solo, single lines on pentatonic scale on a distorted guitar, simple twelve bar form, no harmonic sophistication. What about a chordal style (you've mentioned Robben Ford, I'm not a great fan of him but at least is an exception), what about other instruments, what about no distortion, what about a more sophisticated songwriting instead of the twelve bar stuff? Because even at the beginning the blues had more complex forms, many great songs of the american songbook had a deep blues influence (willow weep for me, loverman, angel eyes, stormy weather etc), there was more variety and sophistication.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Ever listen to Ronnie Earl? He's hugely influenced by Magic Sam. Zappa loved Watson, but I don't hear much influence on his guitar playing.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Maybe the generations that came after? When I think of "great blues guitarists", they're not all people influenced by BB King. And I don't see it as a problem. Just as many players were influenced by Robert Johnson. Somebody had to establish the vocabulary. Listen to those Robert Johnson recordings and you can hear the licks and phrases everybody uses today. Same with Chuck Berry. He developed the rock n roll guitar vocabulary everybody picked up on. I use terms like establish and develop because no one musician created all this stuff. Even the masters had their influences. But it's their recordings everybody else learned from.


Well, point is, to say that B. B. King's playing isn't good would be strange. Was just listening to his Live at the Regal today and there are plenty of wonderful licks, plus B. B. plays with a lot of heart and puts feeling into every note.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Nobody said BB King's playing isn't good. Some people just prefer other stuff. I hardly ever listen to the Regal album. Too much fuss from the crowd.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Nobody said BB King's playing isn't good. Some people just prefer other stuff. I hardly ever listen to the Regal album. Too much fuss from the crowd.


I just ignore the crowd .


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

norman bates said:


> By the way, there are amazing bluesmen that haven't been influential at all, for the simple reason they were too difficult to replicate. My favorite bluesman ever, Robert Pete Williams, is a good example of that. Pee Wee Russell playing the blues on clarinet is another. They were AMAZING musicians, but it's difficult to think of someone that sounds like them.


I had never before come accross Robert Pete Williams until your post. Damn, that guy is good! Thanks for the intro.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Morimur said:


> I had never before come accross Robert Pete Williams until your post. Damn, that guy is good! Thanks for the intro.


I'm glad you liked him!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> I think the same can be said about a lot of music that has a rural tradition - that's why I feel queasy about British Isles folk heritage and the fact that a band as dull as Mumford & Sons could sell more albums in one year than Fairport Convention could do in their whole career.


That would be the authentic folky guys who all grew up together at the same local school err. Kings College Wimbledon and whose pop's are the local Hedge Fund Owners.

(Not that I'm jealous).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Belowpar said:


> That would be the authentic folky guys who all grew up together at the same local school err. Kings College Wimbledon and whose pop's are the local Hedge Fund Owners.
> 
> (Not that I'm jealous).


Yes, I should have made a better comparison there, but I think you got the picture.


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