# Notre Dame Cathedral Fire



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Looking bad. Our thoughts are with the people of Paris.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Awful. Hope that at least it isn't arson. But were the rescue ressources good enough, since this could apparently be so comprehensive a fire? Hope they'll save most of the interiors and the windows.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

This makes me really sad. The place where Magister Perotinus, one of my favorite composers, composed and presented his groundbreaking polyphonic pieces. A black day for art. Why beauty always has to be ephemeral?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Very bad indeed. The spire has collapsed. From the BBC:
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A Notre-Dame spokesman, Andre Finot, says the cathedral's wooden interior is likely to be completely destroyed by the fire. "Everything is burning, nothing will remain from the frame," he told French media.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

It's looking highly likely that there's nothing inside that can be saved. It also looks like Les pompiers are concentrating dousing efforts at the western end of the nave, to try and protect the two front towers, which contain the bells, all, I assume on an internal wooden structure.

Absolutely heart-breaking scenes.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

It's pretty much part of the heart of Paris (old and new).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Another report from the BBC says the Rose Windows (and presumably other stained glass windows) are likely to be destroyed if they haven't already been.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

That rose window is on the southern transept, I believe, Ken. Not much chance of it surviving.

Now reports of fire in the western towers....


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

This is an absolute tragedy. I was in it last year. So much history.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

"French deputy interior minister Laurent Nunez has told reporters it is 'not certain' that the cathedral can be saved, according to news agency AFP."
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"Firefighters at the scene have told Reuters news agency that all efforts are now being directed at saving artwork in the cathedral and preventing the collapse of its northern tower."​


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I think the reconstruction will become a national French project. They are already calling for funds and donations, but it will take many decades to complete it in this case.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

After surviving all these centuries and two world wars, and now this. That's tragic.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Evening photo.

But those few water cannons couldn't do much.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

In a twitter discussion by a US professional firefighter, he says that the only effective way to fight a fire like this is from the interior. But that is pretty much impossible because of the danger of falling roof timbers, of which there is a huge amount. Many are probably bigger that 12X12s, truly massive, of a size and length difficult to replace from Europe's much-reduced forests.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

"_Hundreds of firemen of the Paris Fire Brigade are doing everything they can to bring the terrible #NotreDame fire under control. All means are being used, except for water-bombing aircrafts which, if used, could lead to the collapse of the entire structure of the cathedral._"

French authorities via

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117874924268376064_
EDIT:_
Glass windows gone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117898832593944576


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

'Reuters news agency is quoting an official with the French firefighting team as saying: "We can now say that the structure of Notre-Dame has been saved from total destruction". 

'AFP is also reporting that the main structure has been "saved and preserved", citing an official.'


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

The fire is devastating and difficult to watch. I am really upset. I have been to Paris three times in my life, and I visited the cathedral each time.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

This is one of those events where almost the whole world unites in a similar process of mourning. Notre Dame is an iconic historic structure well beyond its ties to French/Roman Catholicism. It was devastating to watch no matter one’s religion or country of origin.

I wonder whether the core structure really can be saved the way they’re saying with all the smoke and water damage to all that old wood.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

senza sordino said:


> The fire is devastating and difficult to watch. I am really upset. I have been to Paris three times in my life, and I visited the cathedral each time.


Me too, special the organ playing sounded stupendous .


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> After surviving all these centuries and two world wars, and now this. That's tragic.


One gloomy Sunday morning some years back, when a mass or two was being murmured in the darkened cathedral, I was considering the history behind a memorial by the South? rose window, which commemorated the Liberation of Paris in 1945. Suddenly the famous orgue of Notre Dame struck up and I burst into tears with the significance and beauty of it all.

On an Easter Sunday long before, I had heard Messaien playing that organ. A young Australian organist, who has been in contact with the Notre Dame organists since the fire, says any damage to the organ is likely to be everlasting. And the same goes for the rose window it seems.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The interior is possibly in a somewhat better condition than could be expected, compared to pictures from yesterday evening.
Parts of the roof/ceiling went down though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117919472713469952
One company has said that it will donate 100 million Euros
https://www.capital.fr/economie-pol...0m-euros-pour-notre-dame-de-paris-1335328?amp


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

'Even replacing the timber roof structure that burned could be challenge. "Where do you get timber long enough?" he said. "The oak forests are gone." '

'Foyle also worried that one of the cathedral's iconic features - a kaleidoscopic 62-foot window that was a gift from France's king in 1240 - could be lost forever. Still, he said there are French architects trained in medieval building techniques that would be up to the task of restoring this "pioneering giant of Gothic cathedrals." '

From an MSN article.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Awful. Let's hope that they can rebuild it.


Notre dame (tourist shot 1) by Hennie Schaper, on Flickr


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Many churches and cathedrals have fallen (to the elements or deliberate destruction) to be rebuilt in some form. Notre Dame doesn't appear to be in the sort of state Coventry Cathedral was brought to in 1940, which is still a ruin. However, the Frauenkirche in Dresden _was _rebuilt after lying in total ruins for some 50 years.

It takes will and decision-making. These buildings were originally built without regard for 'practicality' or 'economic viability' in the modern sense.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> "_Hundreds of firemen of the Paris Fire Brigade are doing everything they can to bring the terrible #NotreDame fire under control. All means are being used, except for water-bombing aircrafts which, if used, could lead to the collapse of the entire structure of the cathedral._"
> 
> French authorities via
> 
> ...


Conflicting information - now it is said that the three glass window rosettes and the organ were saved
https://www.bfmtv.com/culture/notre...=Social&utm_source=Twitter&Echobox=1555407488

_EDIT_: Pictures and a survey of saved/lost items. Rosette still there (in French)
https://www.franceinter.fr/societe/...e-endommage-ce-qui-a-ete-detruit-a-notre-dame


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

These are hardly "good news stories", but there are reports of the rose windows being largely intact, and:

Paris' deputy mayor says Notre Dame's organ, among the world's most famous and biggest, remains intact after a devastating fire at Paris' main cathedral.

Emmanuel Gregoire told BFMTV Tuesday that a plan to protect Notre Dame's treasures was rapidly and successfully activated.

The impressive organ dates to the 1730s and was constructed by Francois Thierry. It boasts an estimated 8,000 pipes.

Gregoire also described "enormous relief" at the salvaging of pieces such as the purported Crown of Christ.

A few crumbs of comfort....


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

This may spur very serious efforts to secure these flammable cultural treasures from the same fate, so that, if a fire breaks out, the resources are immediately available and equal to the task. When one adds to this the incredible vandalism that ISIS and the Taliban have wrought throughout the areas they control, it chills the heart that world cultural heritage is so easily destroyed.


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## Metairie Road (Apr 30, 2014)

First and foremost I'm grateful that no lives were lost. This building nor any other is worth the life of a firefighter.

Get some perspective.

Having said that, I was sorry to see it burn.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Metairie Road said:


> First and foremost I'm grateful that no lives were lost. This building nor any other is worth the life of a firefighter.


:tiphat: I think that goes without saying - as I'm sure we all assumed.

Very sorry to see it on fire on the news video - that moment when the spire collapsed! 
Such sadness and shock for the people of France.

I am sure the will to restore the church is there, and I'm glad that it isn't all bad news - that some treasures were salvaged, and above all, that no lives were lost.

How can it have started?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Every post here on the forum represents a choice of perspective, of matters that are important and not so important. But this isn't just a building, it is, among other things, a symbol of a good deal of the country's and the city's historical and cultural heritage. As such, it is a library as well.

It's probably easy to identify where the fire started, but a bit more tricky to establish why. They'll have to map electrical / tool sources etc. and other factors.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> Every post here on the forum represents a choice of perspective, of matters that are important and not so important. But this isn't just a building, it is, among other things, a symbol of a good deal of the country's and the city's historical and cultural heritage. As such, it is a library as well.
> .


"Choice of perspective", good phrase. There are people who have been prepared to risk their lives protecting buildings and items of historical and cultural heritage.


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

Does anybody know of any outstanding and currently available recordings that were made in the cathedral?


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

I listened to Machaut's mass by Ensemble Organum when I saw the news. Couldn't stand watching it burn for long, too disturbing.

As for risking lives, it's easy to say this about a building, but someone had to determine who was safe and who wasn't. Seems amazing that nobody was trapped inside... or should I not think about that.

Finally, like many historical monuments, it represents 1000s of lives that were already lost, in battles over territories real and virtual. This is part of the equation that determines how valuable it is to us now, and how much risk should be spent to preserve it. Everybody will weigh these factors differently. I was a bit shocked that it took two hours before I saw any sign of response, but I also was in awe at the scale of the disaster and how difficult it would be to stop. 

Sad. I've never even been to Paris so my only memories are from the view of Charles Laughton...


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

*Perotin - Viderunt omnes; Notre Dame Cathedral of old*


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## RockyIII (Jan 21, 2019)

https://www.cbcmusic.ca/posts/21145/last-music-recorded-notre-dame-de-paris-latry-bach

Organist Olivier Latry had no way of knowing that his latest album, _Bach to the Future_, would possibly be the final recording ever made on the famous Cavaillé-Coll organ at Notre-Dame de Paris.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

*Here*'s a BBC article with clear graphics explaining how the fire went, what was saved and what was not.

Added: I read earlier that the organ was saved.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

All these are Notre Dame. I prefer Jennifer Bate, but these are thoughtful and meditative readings, a different maybe less dramatic perspective?


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

philoctetes said:


> I listened to Machaut's mass by Ensemble Organum when I saw the news. Couldn't stand watching it burn for long, too disturbing.
> 
> As for risking lives, it's easy to say this about a building, but someone had to determine who was safe and who wasn't. Seems amazing that nobody was trapped inside... or should I not think about that.
> 
> ...


Your last comment has injected a much-needed note of gentle humour, thank you!

As to lives lost, have a look at the graphics Ken directs us to from the BBC. One could say the fire was actually on the outside of the cathedral, and the damage inside was probably only (!) caused by the collapse of the wooden spire. I am not being blase, but up until that point "downstairs was safe" as it were.

All the relatively new statues congregated around the base of the spire, were removed last week, so are safe.

I am trying to think about the Physics of all this. Surely the roof and vault would exert outward force, balanced by the inward of the flying buttresses. I would have thought the walls, especially down the shorter East end, will have moved inwards? Thank Christ for a stone vault! I may be wrong, but it is wooden at York Minster, hence the absence of flying buttresses on the transepts, hence the quick collapse into the inside back in 1984.

They were built to last, these old churches! :angel:


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Strange Magic said:


> ...When one adds to this the incredible vandalism that ISIS and the Taliban have wrought throughout the areas they control, it chills the heart that world cultural heritage is so easily destroyed.


At least this was by accident, and unlike in those situations, no lives have been lost. I was shocked to realise that Palmyra was only one of dozens of such places destroyed. It's been going on right under our noses. I'm withholding further comments to prevent politicisation of this topic. Otherwise this was my exact reaction when I first heard this news yesterday.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

RockyIII said:


> Does anybody know of any outstanding and currently available recordings that were made in the cathedral?


I have one with Latrie, this one, alas the price on e Bay gone up by the hour yesterday. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Centuries-Organ-Music-Notre/dp/B00BOV4FZA


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's some good drone footage from The Guardian showing the extent of damage at the cathedral, at least from the outside. Watch full-screen if you can.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

To see what it looked like before the fire






This is interactive and again best watched full screen. It's best on You Tube as otherwise the logo gets in the way of the pan and tilt controls.


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