# the worst Ring in your opinon



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

i've recently downloaded a Weimar Ring blu-ray, which took me about two weeks of nervous anticipation, to my eventual total frustration: but it wasn't even the idiotic production, and the voices were of acceptable quality, this time it was the *orchestra* that performed so poorly, you stop paying attention to anything else... the only consolation is i didn't have to pay for it.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

I personally maybe hated the Valencia Ring's look, but after watching a little more of Götter the staging came nearly funny... About the conducting, I think that the Barcelona Ring is quite poor too.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Zabirilog said:


> I personally maybe hated the Valencia Ring's look


me too but that was compensated by the orchestra under Mehta conducting and (at last) a distinctly sung German text.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I've seen quite a few futuristic Rings, but as long as there is a spear, a sword, fire and good singing, I'm okay. The Valencia one was funny. Still wondering what Gunther and Hagen's makeup was meant to be. But you could dress up Matti Salminen as a Borg and he would still sing like a god.

Still want to get the original Kupfer Ring but haven't found any download...


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Sieglinde said:


> Still wondering what Gunther and Hagen's makeup was meant to be


like, a hint at them being venal and corrupt, lol.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Sieglinde said:


> Still want to get the original Kupfer Ring but haven't found any download...


Better to buy it, I got it as a Christmas gift. And it is the best of them! :lol:

The Valencia Ring really is funny. And the singers are terrible... except Matti and Uusitalo.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Zabirilog said:


> The Valencia Ring really is funny


not only that but also extremely amateurish.


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## badRomance (Nov 22, 2011)

Zabirilog said:


> I personally maybe hated the Valencia Ring's look


I actually enjoyed the stage design and some of the looks. It has probably the best looking Fafner in dragon form. But I thought the costume and makeup for Brunnhilde, Siegfried, and Wotan were really hideous, almost unwatchable.



Zabirilog said:


> About the conducting, I think that the Barcelona Ring is quite poor too.


I have to agree. Also some of the tempos were too slow for no reason except maybe to get the machines and props in place.


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## badRomance (Nov 22, 2011)

Zabirilog said:


> nd the singers are terrible... except Matti and Uusitalo.


Some of the singing were mediocre and ugly (eg, the Valkyries and Siegfried). But I thought Siefert's Siegmund, Wilson's Brunnhilde, Siegel's Mime, Salminen's Hagen were all pretty good. Wilson has the voice to tackle the role unlike some other sopranos in the past decade.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

I agree with Wilson's voice (but she's still not in even the same class with Evans), but the costume... nooo......


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Well i don't underdstand much about Thielemann interpretation on Wagner's. There's some je ne sais quoi that does not fit for me.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

dionisio said:


> Well i don't underdstand much about Thielemann interpretation on Wagner's


but which one of the filmed Rings did he conduct ?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I walked out on an expensive ticketed production of Die wAlkure in DC that was billed as An American Ring. I hated the concept that took all the magic out of The Ring and made it part of Americana. Hated it!!!! Even with Domingo.


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

The Copenhagen Ring...where they made the Valkyries dress up like Mary Poppins. 'Nuff said


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Not only the Valkyries, everybody's costumes look pretty horrible in that production. And the baby... poor Wagner, he is lucky to know nothing of this.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I saw The Americana Ring that DC and SF did. I saw it in DC and walked out i was so offended by it. When Sieglinda went into hiding it was under a freeway with trash and old sofas. Sieglinda's house was a white clapboard house in something like the Ozarks. No Norse God mystery. I HATED it. At least I got to see Domingo sing. i liked the part of the Valencia Ring which i saw.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I saw The Americana Ring that DC and SF did. I saw it in DC and walked out i was so offended by it. When Sieglinda went into hiding it was under a freeway with trash and old sofas. Sieglinda's house was a white clapboard house in something like the Ozarks. No Norse God mystery. I HATED it. At least I got to see Domingo sing. i liked the part of the Valencia Ring which i saw.


The amount opera costs to see I don't think I'd bring myself to walk out. Unless it was to the theatre manager to ask for a refund for being lured there under false pretences.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I love the Copenhagen Ring.

(runs away)


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

And the Stockholm Ring. Scandanavians really just can't seem to get it right: 




One look at the valkyries....


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

No seriously, the funniest Valkyrie scene is the latest Met one. They look like giant toddlers on oversized slides. As they slide down the machine I can't help thinking.. splinters. When I saw in in the cinema I got uncontrollable giggles.


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> No seriously, the funniest Valkyrie scene is the latest Met one. They look like giant toddlers on oversized slides. As they slide down the machine I can't help thinking.. splinters. When I saw in in the cinema I got uncontrollable giggles.


I most definitely agree. I'm really on the fence about the whole plank contraption. Even after watching the documentary of how the Met staged the 2011 Ring and all the effort and creative inspiration that went into it...I still can't help but feel it's a bizarre atmosphere killing monstrosity. Don't get me wrong, I admire the fact they are willing to try new ideas, but just because the intent was good, doesn't mean the result was. What do y'all think of the plank-contraption thingamajig?


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

*The worst Ring.*










and


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Fat, brown Martina Arroyo was a Valkure at the Met at the start of her carreer wearing a blond wig with pig tales and her mother started laughing so hard they had to escort her out of the house


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Even lovely slim brown ladies can look ridiculous in a bad wig. In fact I'm thinking of writing a book called Bad Wigs in Opera.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Celloissimo said:


> I most definitely agree. I'm really on the fence about the whole plank contraption. Even after watching the documentary of how the Met staged the 2011 Ring and all the effort and creative inspiration that went into it...I still can't help but feel it's a bizarre atmosphere killing monstrosity. Don't get me wrong, I admire the fact they are willing to try new ideas, but just because the intent was good, doesn't mean the result was. What do y'all think of the plank-contraption thingamajig?


If LePage had spent as much time on Personenregie as he did on making the stupid machine work, the Met Ring might have been a whole lot better. It just became an expensive creaky projection screen, leaving the poor singers nowhere to move much.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> I love the Copenhagen Ring


seriously no kidding?


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Celloissimo said:


> I'm really on the fence about the whole plank contraption


hmm, i have to admit i liked the plank device, and the latest Met Ring production seems to me like one of the best of those that were filmed...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> seriously no kidding?


Yup, seriously. It was interesting. I particularly like the Siegfried in this cycle - that 70s house with the rebellious teenager:lol:. I think the violence in Rheingold is inspired - bring home how ruthless Wotan actually is. I'd rather watch that than have to sit bored rigid through the old Met one again. Although I must admit the later was a good introduction, the first one I ever watched.

But I can see that the Copenhagen Ring would upset purists, particularly the changed ending.

Thing is, I don't really like Wagner's stories much. I don't like his heroes, I don't much like his attitude to women - they just seem to exist to reflect the men - and I'm suspicious of the mysticism. So alternative takes on the plots are fine by me.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> the Copenhagen Ring would upset purists


not even that but the fact its an amateurish unprofessional production.



mamascarlatti said:


> I don't really like Wagner's stories much. I don't like his heroes, I don't much like his attitude to women - they just seem to exist to reflect the men


but this is how the things are, and Wagner simply told the truth in this case.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

lotr-the worst ring
valencia-the worst ring des nibelungen


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> but this is how the things are, and Wagner simply told the truth in this case.


Well, that be the truth as he saw it, and maybe you reckon the women in your life only exist to reflect you, but I know I don't reflect anyone.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> you reckon the women in your life only exist to reflect you


i don't know. God created us all this way.

for that matter, does Isolde reflect Tristan?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> for that matter, does Isolde reflect Tristan?


No, that's a point. But she's still being taken off to marry Marke like so much luggage.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> she's still being taken off to marry Marke like so much luggage


but that is what the medieval story tells, not Wagner.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Thing is, I don't really like Wagner's stories much. I don't like his heroes, I don't much like his attitude to women - they just seem to exist to reflect the men - and I'm suspicious of the mysticism. So alternative takes on the plots are fine by me.


Personally, I love _everything_ about the Ring: the music, the poetry, the stories, the characters, both male and female, the settings and the spirit of Nordic myth that runs through it. And when I watch a staging of the Ring, I expect to see all those images that Wagner had in mind and that have become so dear to me after countless hours of listening to his music and reading his text together with all the stage remarks: the bottom of the Rhine, Valhalla on the mountaintops, the subterranean kingdom of Nibelheim etc, even if those images can be reproduced only imperfectly in the theatre. That is why it exasperates me so much to see some attic or modern apartment with a washing machine instead, men wearing business suits etc. The MET staging with the "plank contraption", even though it has its faults (those rocking Valkyries do come across a bit silly) is much better in my eyes than the modernized ones, because its creators at least tried to follow Wagner's concept.

One more factor (yes, I know, this is bordering on idol worship) is that Wagner was a genius who created all of the Ring: music, libretto, etc. single-handedly and modern stage directors are not. The best they could do if faithfully recreate Wagner's vision instead of substituting it for their own inferior one.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Thing is, I don't really like Wagner's stories much. I don't like his heroes, I don't much like his attitude to women - they just seem to exist to reflect the men - and I'm suspicious of the mysticism. So alternative takes on the plots are fine by me.


What you say about reflecting the men is really part of the Schopenhaurian view he espoused--that when Wahn or illusion is cast aside everything is fundamentally one. This was a very common romantic view even outside of Schopenhauer. Bertrand Russell wrote a good little essay about Byron, who had romantic relations with his sister, that points out how often incest features in romantic art. Siegmund and Sieglinde is of course the outstanding instance of this; but Tristan and Isolde, and Siegfried and Brunhilde both explicitly illustrate this same kind of desire for metaphysical oneness beyond the world of apparent differences. In a real sense these characters are meant to be mirrors of each other.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Personally, I love _everything_ The MET staging with the "plank contraption", even though it has its faults (those rocking Valkyries do come across a bit silly) is much better in my eyes than the modernized ones, because its creators at least tried to follow Wagner's concept.


Even that production is sadly not even close to being entirely faithful. Take for just one example (which you may be familiar with), the matter of Wotan's hat. Wagner said that his hat should seem part of of him and that he is never to remove it. In the met production, no hat--so that even the most fundamental traits of the characters' appearances are not observed. I doubt we'll ever see a truly faithful production again.

Edit: Just realized we might be talking about different productions, my mistake.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> No seriously, the funniest Valkyrie scene is the latest Met one. They look like giant toddlers on oversized slides. As they slide down the machine I can't help thinking.. splinters. When I saw in in the cinema I got uncontrollable giggles.


Now I thought that was quite effective. But my wife laughed when she saw it.

One of the recent absurdities was The Ride with effective back projections followed by......a stocking fat Valkyrie minus horse which had presumably collapsed under her never to recover.

One problem is that Wagner's own stage directions are totally unrealistic. Weiland Wagner tried to avoid the problem by turning the operas more into oratorios with lighting.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Logos said:


> . In a real sense these characters are meant to be mirrors of each other.


Given the size of some Wagnerian singers through the ages, are the mirrors concave or convex?


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> No, that's a point. But she's still being taken off to marry Marke like so much luggage.


All the more, Isolde definitely takes her fate into her own hand.

It's a pity that you can't relate to Isolde as a true female character; I'm male but to me, she is.

I could rather understand having problems with Kundry. She's an interesting character, and the most complex in "Parsifal" by far, and she's well written, but she seems very much like the projection of male ideas of "woman-ness" (like being the ***** and the saint at the same time).

EDIT: Apparently, the term I used is not well liked here and has been replaced with asterisks. I have to accept this policy. This particular term began with a 'w'.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> One problem is that Wagner's own stage directions are totally unrealistic. Weiland Wagner tried to avoid the problem by turning the operas more into oratorios with lighting.


Although it would probably be botched horribly with tasteless CGI effects, a cinematic interpretation of some kind is probably the best available way to come close to what Wagner was imagining when he made these works. However the budget necessary for an 18 hour film with so many set changes and complicated effects would probably be prohibitive.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Ebab said:


> All the more, Isolde definitely takes her fate into her own hand.
> 
> It's a pity that you can't relate to Isolde as a true female character; I'm male but to me, she is.


No, you are right about Isolde. She does take her fate into her own hands.

The problem I have with T and I is the same that I have with Parsifal ... too much mysticism and yearnings of a kind that I simply don't relate to. It just doesn't resonate with me. I'm not comfortable with Romantic ideals generally.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Logos said:


> Although it would probably be botched horribly with tasteless CGI effects, a cinematic interpretation of some kind is probably the best available way to come close to what Wagner was imagining when he made these works. However the budget necessary for an 18 hour film with so many set changes and complicated effects would probably be prohibitive.


I really don't think any film studio would be up to that kind of work, since the expected profits from an 18-hour opera film would be far too small to justify the expenses, but one can bring the cinematic effects into the theatre as well, if one really has the desire to make the most of Wagner's stage directions. The problem is not many stage directors and managers do.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

Ebab said:


> I could rather understand having problems with Kundry. She's an interesting character, and the most complex in "Parsifal" by far, and she's well written, but she seems very much like the projection of male ideas of "woman-ness" (like being the ***** and the saint at the same time).


She is after all torn between her service to the Knights and her service to Klingsor who simply uses her as an object of seduction. Is this, in a sense, wholly without example in everyday life? Women, who otherwise would live moral lives, are often pulled into immoral behavior by prurient men who can see them only in sexual terms.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I really don't think any film studio would be up to that kind of work, since the expected profits from an 18-hour opera film would be far too small to justify the expenses, but one can bring the cinematic effects into the theatre as well, if one really has the desire to make the most of Wagner's stage directions. The problem is not many stage directors and managers do.


Undoubtedly stage directors could do a much better job than they do at present, but it may be that Wagner's demands are simply too great for the theater to ever completely fulfill them visually. As Ernest Newman put it, there has probably never been, visually, a fully satisfying Rheinmaidens scene or a fully satisfying dragon in Siegfried, because the mere puppetry and wires of the theater can never be fully convincing or live up to what the imagination can conjure.

Now, there are certain people who might argue that Wagner would never have cared whether the dragon looked real or that he would have considered it vulgar to wish for fully convincing effects, but I find that this is untrue. He wanted, as far as the stage technology of that time would allow, a real looking dragon for example. I can't help but think that a cinematic effort would achieve a much greater verisimilitude as regards these things than any stage production can. Of course, what you stated about the obstacles to such a film is true, not to mention that big films, because of their massive
budgets have to pander to the lowest common denominator to have any hope of turning a profit, so that any such effort would probably be disfigured in a number of ways so as to appeal to a mass audience.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Ebab said:


> It's a pity that you can't relate to Isolde as a true female character; I'm male but to me, she is.


I remember saying in your introduction thread that I can relate to Isolde. I can't say I can personally relate to her actions in every way (I think if I were an operatic character and had my beloved killed, his head sent to me by his murderer and then the murderer himself fallen into my hands, I would have probably made an end of him after all) but she seems to me a very incarnation of femininity: someone who loves, heals and nurtures life, even the life of her enemy, but at the same time has a strong personality and is able to take her life in her own hands. Emotional, yes, but not weak.

I also think one does not necessarily have to personally relate to a character of a story in order to enjoy it. The story may be about people whose life is nothing like your life, who lived at a time with different morals and convention (like the _Ring_ and _Tristan und Isolde _settings) but it can still be very enjoyable.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Celloissimo said:


> The Copenhagen Ring...where they made the Valkyries dress up like Mary Poppins. 'Nuff said


The very thought makes me cringe...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy Wagner's operas and frequently listen to them. But there is always a part of me that is not entirely comfortable with, or maybe admiring of them. It's hard to put into words. And as I said, I don't mind alternative takes on the plots.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Don't get me wrong - I enjoy Wagner's operas and frequently listen to them. But there is always a part of me that is not entirely comfortable with, or maybe admiring of them. It's hard to put into words. And as I said, I don't mind alternative takes on the plots.


The problem with Wagner's characters is that they tend to be vastly removed from real life. His philosophic ideals espoused in t he operas bore little resemblance to his own reality. I cannot think of one character in The Ring who I can really sympathise with. Same with Tristan - they are unrealistic characters. Now, of course, opera is full of such things. The problem comes when we want to see it as philosophy rather than entertainment.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> The problem with Wagner's characters is that they tend to be vastly removed from real life


to me Wagner was right on the spot at least with _The Ring_ - an apocalyptic prophecy that foresees the 20th century and its horrors like the demise of monarchies etc.



DavidA said:


> I cannot think of one character in The Ring who I can really sympathise with


you are correct but then again they weren't intended to be sympathised with, they all get killed off in the end.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2013)

The worst Ring in my opinion? Mmmm; that's a difficult one. I think it has to be the one around the bath-tub after I've washed the dog. Sorry - I'm going now as I have research to do!!


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

Logos said:


> She is after all torn between her service to the Knights and her service to Klingsor who simply uses her as an object of seduction. Is this, in a sense, wholly without example in everyday life? Women, who otherwise would live moral lives, are often pulled into immoral behavior by prurient men who can see them only in sexual terms.


No, not at all without example! She may reflect what I regard as male expectations, but I do see Kundry as a fully developed and plausible character (a favorite of mine too). It's only that her being so ambiguous, extreme and tormented, I thought she might be even more difficult to relate to.

Klingsor knows how to take advantage of an impulse … that I believe comes from within herself. She uses seduction for attaining goals, which can be obscure or noble. At the same time she seeks the humiliation that comes with it, like self-punishment. She has been in this painful quest for redemption for far too long, but she won't give up. It's her strange mixture of dark seduction, genuine affection, and some implausible hope that makes simpleton Parsifal finally open his eyes. The shady lady delivers the key to what becomes salvation. That's an interesting pivot, quite unexpected from conventional morality.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

sharik said:


> to me Wagner was right on the spot at least with _The Ring_ - an apocalyptic prophecy that foresees the 20th century and its horrors like the demise of monarchies etc.
> 
> you are correct but then again they weren't intended to be sympathised with, they all get killed off in the end.


Sympathise in terms of identifying with.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm not sure about Kundry being "a symbol of male expectations", I think she is rather a symbol of the struggle between good and evil in the human soul (male or female). To quote apostle Paul: "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do" and the same seems to be happening to Kundry. In her "good moments" she serves the Grail knights, but then she is drawn back to Klingsor every time and works as an agent of evil. When Parsifal resists her, it's not out of love for him that she pleads him to remain with her. He is for her just another enemy to be overpowered and locked away in Klingsor's magic castle, like many others before.

In the first act of _Parsifal _ Titurel says about Klingsor:

_Wen er verlockt, hat er erworben;
Schon viele hat er uns verdorben..._

(He gains control of those he entices;
He has already ruined many of us)

and when Parsifal comes to Klingsor's castle, armed warriors meet him. It seems, those warriors were none other but the former Grail knights who had been defeated by Kundry, had forgotten all about the Grail and their mission (or maybe were too ashamed to come back) and were reduced to a meaningless existence of doing nothing and caring for nothing except the satisfaction of their lust. Amfortas probably escaped the same destiny only because Gurnemanz had assisted him.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> He is for her just another enemy to be overpowered and locked away in Klingsor's magic castle, like many others before.


And yet she has witnessed the "innocently brutal" way how Parsifal met the knights, how Gurnemanz had hopes in him as the "pure fool", but chalked him off as a failure ... Gurnemanz may have the mind but Kundry, quietly, seems to have the instinct.

She challenges Parsifal in her usual routine; Parsifal does give in and yet withstands. What she feels for him is not "lovers' love" but some other genuine affection. She goes on as programmed but she feels a glimpse of hope that this annoyingly stupid person might be the pure individual that brings salvation, possibly to her too.

And so it happens. It's remarkable that "pure" doesn't equal "entirely insusceptible to temptation". He gives in to a degree, but to a degree only. That's his strength.

EDIT: What I'm going for is: The message is more complicated than "Be good, and you'll be fine" (not that I read your posting like that!). Without the "bad" side of Kundry, and Parsifal giving in to that to a degree, Parsifal could not grow, and he could not assume his role for the knighthood.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> No seriously, the funniest Valkyrie scene is the latest Met one. They look like giant toddlers on oversized slides. As they slide down the machine I can't help thinking.. splinters. When I saw in in the cinema I got uncontrollable giggles.


Speaking of playground equipment, the mid-90's Chicago Ring had the Valkyries literally bouncing across the stage on a series of trampolines. Not a helpful image when I spent a good portion of my adult life trying to dissociate melody of "Flight of the Valkyries" from the Bugs Bunny lyric: "Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!...".


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

Cavaradossi said:


> Speaking of playground equipment, the mid-90's Chicago Ring had the Valkyries literally bouncing across the stage on a series of trampolines. Not a helpful image when I spent a good portion of my adult life trying to dissociate melody of "Flight of the Valkyries" from the Bugs Bunny lyric: "Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!...".


You sir, made my day.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Cavaradossi said:


> Speaking of playground equipment, the mid-90's Chicago Ring had the Valkyries literally bouncing across the stage on a series of trampolines. Not a helpful image when I spent a good portion of my adult life trying to dissociate melody of "Flight of the Valkyries" from the Bugs Bunny lyric: "Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!...".


I cringed at that a bit too. If I remember correctly, it was a bunch of kids bouncing on trampoline while the singers were stationary on stage so no we did not get to see Brunhilde bounced. In the same cycle, I did think that Rheinmaidens in Rheingold on bungee cords were actually quite effective because of the choreography. At least it did look like they were swimming, diving up and down on the stage. The trampoline did not really had any good choreographer to really contribute anything much.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

No, seriously we can take this one to the limit… Wotan goes down the fireman's pole to get to Nibelheim, the gods can traverse the wobbly bridge to Valhalla, the Norns can weave all over the climbing nets, the local zoo has a great dragon for Siegfried to kill,










Brünnhilde uses the rocking donkey for the immolation scene,










And Loge can be on the sidelines looking after the barbecue.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Sympathise in terms of identifying with.


all the more so because the Ring characters represent social groups: _Rhinemaids_ - the folk who are stupid and negligent, _Nibelungs_ - the Jews who are greedy and envious, _Giants_ - the manufacturers, _Gods_ - the royalty.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> No, seriously we can take this one to the limit… Wotan goes down the fireman's pole to get to Nibelheim, the gods can traverse the wobbly bridge to Valhalla, the Norns can weave all over the climbing nets, the local zoo has a great dragon for Siegfried to kill...


Valhalla rises while the Rhinemaidens bemoan their loss:


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

suteetat said:


> I cringed at that a bit too. If I remember correctly, it was a bunch of kids bouncing on trampoline while the singers were stationary on stage so no we did not get to see Brunhilde bounced. In the same cycle, I did think that Rheinmaidens in Rheingold on bungee cords were actually quite effective because of the choreography. At least it did look like they were swimming, diving up and down on the stage. The trampoline did not really had any good choreographer to really contribute anything much.


Yes, the bungee cord Rhinemaidens did work well as I recall. The bouncing Valkyries tried to strike heroic poses between bounces but they may just as well have been on pogo sticks with horsey heads*. That was also around the time the movie Jurassic Park came out and the dragon was a life size T-rex skeleton. I further recall that people took it all quite seriously at the time, or at least there was minimal snickering - but I think we were just glad to have any Ring at all. And, gimickry aside, it was a solid production.

*Note: To any interloping opera directors: "All creative suggestions are copyrighted and may not be used without the author's express permission".


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Cavaradossi said:


> Yes, the bungee cord Rhinemaidens did work well as I recall. The bouncing Valkyries tried to strike heroic poses between bounces but they may just as well have been on pogo sticks with horsey heads*. That was also around the time the movie Jurassic Park came out and the dragon was a life size T-rex skeleton. I further recall that people took it all quite seriously at the time, or at least there was minimal snickering - but I think we were just glad to have any Ring at all. And, gimickry aside, it was a solid production.


I think I may have seen _Siegfried_ and _Götterdämmerung_ in that cycle. Did Siegfried Jerusalem and Eva Marton sing Sigi and Brünnhilde in that _Ring_? The reference to the T-rex skeleton Fafner has stirred some vague memories.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Yes MAuer, that's correct. I looked it up. I didn't see the original production but saw it piecemeal in revival in the mid-2000's.

Now that you mention Gotterdamerug, I also remember that the Rheingold was some weird amorphous lump suspended over the stage rendered deeply meaningful only by the stirring music that always accompanied its appearance.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

MAuer said:


> I think I may have seen _Siegfried_ and _Götterdämmerung_ in that cycle. Did Siegfried Jerusalem and Eva Marton sing Sigi and Brünnhilde in that _Ring_? The reference to the T-rex skeleton Fafner has stirred some vague memories.


Yes, it was Mehta, Marton, Jerusalem, Morris. Marton sang all Brunhilde when Chicago did one opera per year. When they did the whole cycle, Marton sang in 2 cycles and Jane Eaglen sang in one cycle. T-Rex skeleton dragon was ok for me. Only the trampoline I thought was the effect that I could do without. I missed Rheingold the first time around. That was Bryn Terfel's US debut as Doner and unfortunately it was Tatiana Troyanos' last performance in Chicago and she passed away not long after that. I was away from Chicago at that time but caught Walkure, Siegfried during the next 2 years and went to see Eaglen in the complete cycle the year after.


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## MrCello (Nov 25, 2011)

Is it bad that I've had a hard time finding another good version after only seeing the Levine Met version for most of my life?


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

MrCello said:


> Is it bad that I've had a hard time finding another good version after only seeing the Levine Met version for most of my life?


not at all because that one is most likely to remain the reference version for centuries to come.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MrCello said:


> Is it bad that I've had a hard time finding another good version after only seeing the Levine Met version for most of my life?


I like that one so much I ripped it to MP3 to replace my Levine Ring on CD which was a different performance.


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