# Examples of recent performances that are better than the older performances.



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

The debate about older legends has been appreciative or not inspired me to conjure up a thread where we can think of examples of recent recordings or performances beating out the older version.

So I will start:






is much better than the Furtwangler version almost 2 decades earlier:






And other examples?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Another more intimate example.

I think that the Pollini version of the Beethoven Piano Sonata No. 32 is nearly impossible to beat.






I think a better version than the one done by Arrau earlier by not much.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I wouldn't exactly call Kleiber's 5th a "recent" recording. It dates from 1975, prior to CDs and digital recording. It's 40 years old. Pollini's Beethoven also dates from 1975. Again not a strong argument for the strength of "recent" or contemporary recordings.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Katharine Jenkins is better than Florence Foster Jenkins... I think! :angel:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Well... she's definitely better looking.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Almost any ECM New Series disc that doesn't try to do anything overly radical to the work in question....will have a top notch performance.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm confused about the assignment here. Are we being asked to find just _any_ recent (whatever that means) performance that's better than just _any_ old (whatever that means) performance? What will that be indicative of? Or are we supposed to find a recent performance that beats out the best old performance in existence? Now _that_ would really mean something!

With Baroque music that would be easy. With Romantic music it would be next to impossible. But ignorance is bliss.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> With Romantic music it would be next to impossible.


Not really. Think of Zimerman doing the Chopin concertos. Or Gastinel playing Brahms cello sonatas. Or Harnonourt and Aimard in Beethoven op 15. Or Zilberstein playing Schubert D850. Or Roger Muraro playing Rachmaninov Moments Musicaux. Or Pletnev playing Grieg Lyric pieces (his first recording.) Or Harnoncourt or Gielen doing the Missa Solemnis (the DVD) Or Abbado playing the Brahms Requiem. Or Fassbaender singing Dichterliebe. Or Villazon in Don Carlos, or his Boheme with Gheorghiu. Or some of Abbado's Mahler with the Lausanne orchestra, after his cancer scare. That's without thinking too hard.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

If recent is 40 years of less, then I can think of a a number... But is a 40 year old recording really "recent"?

For me, recent is something like the last five years and then I have a very low pot success! (Watching Welch Open Snooker final, Higgins vs. Wollaston! on my neighbours home cinema) .. I'm sure there must be a few, but I have a hard time to think of any Ronnie O'Sullivan's of classical music! (Stephen Hendry is still the best ever!)

/ptr


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Carlos Kleiber - excellent (and my favourite Beethoven 5th) - but dead

Abbado - excellent - but dead

erm .... not the best examples to support the claim that the present kicks the past into a cocked hat


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm not actively listening to a lot of new or older recordings of Romantic repertoire but recent recordings of chamber music by say Janine Jansen, or the Capucons, or a good many string quartets seem to me to be better technically and musically than what has gone before. I think it's high time the du Pre Elgar is acknowledged as being bested by Mork, Weilerstein or Gabetta. Orchestrally, I'm not aware of so much new stuff - a lot of the big rep has been recorded to death but there are many recent quality live recordings that are extremely exciting like Colin Davis's Symphony Fantastique with LSO. Nezet-Seguin's Schumann cycle with Chamber Orchestra of Europe is also phenomenal (in fact just about anything with this amazing artist-orchestra) - I'm sure there's more if I were better up to date with this repertoire

For any period not romantic, the case for recent recordings is clear cut


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Zehetmair/Bruggen is my favorite Beethoven Violin Concerto. So I guess I'd say it is better than everything that came before it (YMMV). But even it goes back to the 90s.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Think of Zimerman doing the Chopin concertos. Or Gastinel playing Brahms cello sonatas. Or Harnonourt and Aimard in Beethoven op 15. Or Zilberstein playing Schubert D850. Or Roger Muraro playing Rachmaninov Moments Musicaux. Or Pletnev playing Grieg Lyric pieces (his first recording.) Or Harnoncourt or Gielen doing the Missa Solemnis (the DVD) Or Abbado playing the Brahms Requiem. Or Fassbaender singing Dichterliebe. Or Villazon in Don Carlos, or his Boheme with Gheorghiu. Or some of Abbado's Mahler with the Lausanne orchestra, after his cancer scare. That's without thinking too hard.

Are these really examples of contemporary recordings clearly superior to any older ones? Gastinel's Brahms is clearly superior to Gregor Piatigorsky and Rubinstein or Serkin and Mstislav Rostropovich? Lilya Zilberstein's Schubert D. 850 is imminently preferable to Richter, Kempff, Brendel... and more recently, Uchida? Honestly, I've never even heard Abbado's recording of Brahm's requiem being mentioned as being in the running among essential recordings such as Gardier, Klemperer, Fritz Lehmann, and Herreweghe. Fassbender's Dichterliebe? Superior to Wunderlich's :lol:. _La Boheme?_ Try Callas or Victoria de los Angeles and Jussi Bjorling.

Think harder.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Think of Zimerman doing the Chopin concertos. Or Gastinel playing Brahms cello sonatas. Or Harnonourt and Aimard in Beethoven op 15. Or Zilberstein playing Schubert D850. Or Roger Muraro playing Rachmaninov Moments Musicaux. Or Pletnev playing Grieg Lyric pieces (his first recording.) Or Harnoncourt or Gielen doing the Missa Solemnis (the DVD) Or Abbado playing the Brahms Requiem. Or Fassbaender singing Dichterliebe. Or Villazon in Don Carlos, or his Boheme with Gheorghiu. Or some of Abbado's Mahler with the Lausanne orchestra, after his cancer scare. That's without thinking too hard.
> 
> Are these really examples of contemporary recordings clearly superior to any older ones? Gastinel's Brahms is clearly superior to Gregor Piatigorsky and Rubinstein or Serkin and Mstislav Rostropovich? Lilya Zilberstein's Schubert D. 850 is imminently preferable to Richter, Kempff, Brendel... and more recently, Uchida? Honestly, I've never even heard Abbado's recording of Brahm's requiem being mentioned as being in the running among essential recordings such as Gardier, Klemperer, Fritz Lehmann, and Herreweghe. Fassbender's Dichterliebe? Superior to Wunderlich's :lol:. _La Boheme?_ Try Callas or Victoria de los Angeles and Jussi Bjorling.
> 
> Think harder.


I love those last two sentences. Pure throwing down the gauntlet.

'Think harder.'

_Try_ harder.

'Try again.'


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

dgee said:


> Colin Davis's Symphony Fantastique with LSO.


Sir Colin Davis - excellent - dead


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Sir Colin Davis - excellent - dead


I am reminded of the story of the tenor performing at La Scala. He finished his aria and there was total silence until one person started shouting "bravo, encore", so he obliged. When he had finished again there was still silence except for the one voice "encore, encore ... you will keep singing it until you get it right."


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> Not really. Think of Zimerman doing the Chopin concertos. Or Gastinel playing Brahms cello sonatas. Or Harnonourt and Aimard in Beethoven op 15. Or Zilberstein playing Schubert D850. Or Roger Muraro playing Rachmaninov Moments Musicaux. Or Pletnev playing Grieg Lyric pieces (his first recording.) Or Harnoncourt or Gielen doing the Missa Solemnis (the DVD) Or Abbado playing the Brahms Requiem. Or Fassbaender singing Dichterliebe. Or Villazon in Don Carlos, or his Boheme with Gheorghiu. Or some of Abbado's Mahler with the Lausanne orchestra, after his cancer scare. That's without thinking too hard.


_Villazon? _Is there a single tenor from a hundred years ago whose records- any of them- compare unfavourably with any of Villazon's?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> _Villazon? _Is there a single tenor from a hundred years ago whose records- any of them- compare unfavourably with any of Villazon's?


He did an oustanding Tales of Hoffman, peerless, and an exceptional Don Carlo, and when I saw him in Boheme in London it was as good as any, including Pavi. (I don't know if this was recorded.) I think he didn't fulfill the promise of those early years, but I'm not sure because I haven't followed opera very much over the past 10 years or so.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> He did an oustanding Tales of Hoffman, peerless, and an exceptional Don Carlo, and when I saw him in Boheme in London it was as good as any, including Pavi. (I don't know if this was recorded.) I think he didn't fulfill the promise of those early years, but I'm not sure because I haven't followed opera very much over the past 10 years or so.


Who is Pavi? I googled him, but couldn't find anything.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I wouldn't exactly call Kleiber's 5th a "recent" recording. It dates from 1975, prior to CDs and digital recording. It's 40 years old. Pollini's Beethoven also dates from 1975. Again not a strong argument for the strength of "recent" or contemporary recordings.


Sorry about that. This example should be an example that fits more into your paramaters .

I think that Sol Gabetta's performance of the Shostakovich Cello Concerto is comparable to me as much as the Rostropovich version:










Same with Yo-Yo Ma's version too just as much as Rostropovich's.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I'd put Yo-Yo Ma's version of almost any cello piece as a contender for best performance. His style really meshes with my own musical sensibilities.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Sir Colin Davis - excellent - dead


Oh my dear Headphone Hermit you made me laugh. I have actually said those exact words "in real life" out loud and amidst the laughter from my companions I am told that I'm am terrible or that I'm a bad man. *sigh* He is most defiantly dead though.

Oh and I quite excellent!

Fox


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

albertfallickwang said:


> Sorry about that. This example should be an example that fits more into your paramaters .
> 
> I think that Sol Gabetta's performance of the Shostakovich Cello Concerto is comparable to me as much as the Rostropovich version:
> 
> ...


I don't know if I agree I just liked because well you posted cello videos and that deserves a like. 

I'm not a fan of Ma...

Well to be fair I saw him once and wasn't impressed but I don't know if I should revisit his work?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Fox said:


> I don't know if I agree I just liked because well you posted cello videos and that deserves a like.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Ma...
> 
> Well to be fair I saw him once and wasn't impressed but I don't know if I should revisit his work?


Yes, Ma for some cello concertos can be a bit bland but this performance is just incredible. Enjoy the Youtube version .


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Sir Colin Davis - excellent - dead


OK so you got me, Colin Davis is dead and your powers of observation are commendable. But before I too come to the conclusion that noone can do it like they did in the good old days, I would like to point out some other recordings by musicians who have yet to "buy the farm" or "take a dirt nap" that I mentioned too.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

dgee said:


> OK so you got me, Colin Davis is dead and your powers of observation are commendable. But before I too come to the conclusion that noone can do it like they did in the good old days, I would like to point out some other recordings by musicians who have yet to "buy the farm" or "take a dirt nap" that I mentioned too.


Colin Davis' version of the Haydn symphonies are awesome... A1 sauce to me.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> Colin Davis' version of the Haydn symphonies are awesome... A1 sauce to me.


 A1 sauce? Is that a compliment?


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> A1 sauce? Is that a compliment?


A1 Sauce me thinks? *shrugs*


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Fox said:


> A1 Sauce me thinks? *shrugs*


I love A1 sauce on my inexpensive meat.

http://www.kraftrecipes.com/recipes/dinner/a1-recipes.aspx

Some great recipes involving the humble condiment.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Fox said:


> A1 Sauce me thinks? *shrugs*


Yeah, I know what it is. Wasn't sure that was a compliment.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> Yeah, I know what it is. Wasn't sure that was a compliment.


It was a compliment. Sorry if I didn't name check waygu beef.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I'm confused about the assignment here. Are we being asked to find just _any_ recent (whatever that means) performance that's better than just _any_ old (whatever that means) performance? What will that be indicative of? Or are we supposed to find a recent performance that beats out the best old performance in existence? Now _that_ would really mean something!
> 
> With Baroque music that would be easy. With Romantic music it would be next to impossible. But ignorance is bliss.


 Others may interpret the assignment differently, but I think the intent is to discuss recording that has 'iconic' status and see if a more recent contender has bested it.
For example, Jacqueline Du Pre's Elgar Concerto recording with Barbirolli. Has any recording in the last 50 years bested it?


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Triplets said:


> Others may interpret the assignment differently, but I think the intent is to discuss recording that has 'iconic' status and see if a more recent contender has bested it.
> For example, Jacqueline Du Pre's Elgar Concerto recording with Barbirolli. Has any recording in the last 50 years bested it?


Yes! See my comment already


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Well... she's definitely better looking.


I have nothing against Ms. Katherine I've heard her name but don't really know who she is the same can be said for Ms. Florence. However looking at the two pictures baring in mind this is just my opinion Florence looks happier than Katherine.

Although she also looks more realistic I am assuming someone was a bit heavy handed with the Photoshop although I'm sure Katherine is a just lovely without airbrushing, she looks vacant (I don't mean that be insulting I know it sounds it).


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Triplets said:


> Others may interpret the assignment differently, but I think the intent is to discuss recording that has 'iconic' status and see if a more recent contender has bested it.
> For example, Jacqueline Du Pre's Elgar Concerto recording with Barbirolli. Has any recording in the last 50 years bested it?


That was very very easy. I just finished up a listening test and Alisa Weilerstein's was voted by everyone as the definitive version.






Jacqueline du Pre's version was voted second place by the SLC classical music society... and that included a professional tuba player.

Blind testing btw.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> Yeah, I know what it is. Wasn't sure that was a compliment.


I apologise if you thought I was being condescending, I posted that in jest. I had never heard of A1 Sauce before I don't believe it is sold in the UK.

From the short time I have known Albert however I did not think it was anything but a compliment he is a good chap. :tiphat:

Regards,

Fox


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I'm confused about the assignment here. Are we being asked to find just _any_ recent (whatever that means) performance that's better than just _any_ old (whatever that means) performance? What will that be indicative of? Or are we supposed to find a recent performance that beats out the best old performance in existence? Now _that_ would really mean something!
> 
> With Baroque music that would be easy. With Romantic music it would be next to impossible. But ignorance is bliss.


I'll make things simpler then.

Find post 1980's recordings which are better than their pre-1980's counterparts.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I just finished up a listening test and Alisa Weilerstein's was voted by everyone as the definitive version.

Who is everyone?

A tuba player?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I just finished up a listening test and Alisa Weilerstein's was voted by everyone as the definitive version.
> 
> Who is everyone?


Ben (professional tuba player), Powell (my stepdad), and Rosemarie of the SLC Classical Music Society.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

In my opinion Glenn Gould's 1981 BWV 988






is better than...






his 1955 performance.​


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Fox said:


> In my opinion Glenn Gould's 1981 BWV 988
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. Gould I think was young in 1955 and was trying to show off his chops and 1981 he was more reflective in that sense.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I just finished up a listening test and Alisa Weilerstein's was voted by everyone as the definitive version.
> 
> Who is everyone?
> 
> A tuba player?


I feel horrible but I laughed out loud only on this forum is that a possible answer to "Who is everyone?" :tiphat: Bravo!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> That was very very easy. I just finished up a listening test and Alisa Weilerstein's was voted by everyone as the definitive version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is very nice for Ms. Weilerstein's ego and for your friend the tuba player, but what does it really mean? That Ms. Weilerstein actually plays the piece "better" than Jacqueline Du Pre? That there is a correct interpretation of the piece and that Ms. Weilerstein comes closer to that interpretation than does Ms. Du Pre? Or does it mean simply that two superb cellists play it differently and that some people are more attuned to the sort of performance that one gives than to the sort the other gives? Perhaps it's just a sampling of the first impressions of a handful of people, with no further significance?

I know Jacqueline Du Pre's commercial recording of the Elgar Cello Concerto. I have heard others. I find her interpretation, and her execution of it, strongly conceived, emotionally compelling, and as legitimate as any other. I hear nothing in it that requires "improving." I welcome other interpretations which will be compelling in their own way. I may prefer them or not. Between such highly accomplished performances, that preference will be no more than a preference, absent well-considered argument to the contrary.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Fox said:


> had never heard of A1 Sauce before I don't believe it is sold in the UK.


Surprise! "A.1. was originally developed, produced, and marketed in the United Kingdom as a brand in 1831 and was officially registered as a trademark in the U.S. in 1895, and was later imported and distributed in the United States by G.F. Heublein & Bros in 1906. Although the sauce is widely available in the U.S. and Canada, in the UK, its country of origin, it is currently only sold by Tesco and Ocado."

Also: "The original sauce upon which A.1. is based was created in 1824 by Henderson William Brand, a chef to King George IV of the United Kingdom."


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> That is very nice for Ms. Weilerstein's ego and for your friend the tuba player, but what does it really mean? That Ms. Weilerstein actually plays the piece "better" than Jacqueline Du Pre? That there is a correct interpretation of the piece and that Ms. Weilerstein comes closer to that interpretation than does Ms. Du Pre? Or does it mean simply that two superb cellists play it differently and that some people are more attuned to the sort of performance that one gives than to the sort the other gives? Perhaps it's just a sampling of the first impressions of a handful of people, with no further significance?
> 
> I know Jacqueline Du Pre's commercial recording of the Elgar Cello Concerto. I have heard others. I find her interpretation, and her execution of it, strongly conceived, emotionally compelling, and as legitimate as any other. I hear nothing in it that requires "improving." I welcome other interpretations which will be compelling in their own way. I may prefer them or not. Between such highly accomplished performances, that preference will be no more than a preference without well-considered argument to the contrary.


For me, the results aren't necessarily the most meaningful results but isn't this the way how juried musical competitions function?  They get judges and vote up a winner like a more intellectual version of American Idol.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Fox said:


> I have nothing against Ms. Katherine I've heard her name but don't really know who she is the same can be said for Ms. Florence. However looking at the two pictures baring in mind this is just my opinion Florence looks happier than Katherine.
> 
> Although she also looks more realistic I am assuming someone was a bit heavy handed with the Photoshop although I'm sure Katherine is a just lovely without airbrushing, she looks vacant (I don't mean that be insulting I know it sounds it).


No complaints. For that you get to enjoy a lovely clip of the latter Jenkins singing for your reference.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

albertfallickwang said:


> For me, the results aren't necessarily the most meaningful results but isn't this the way how juried musical competitions function?  They get judges and vote up a winner like a more intellectual version of American Idol.


You listed 3 people earlier ... is that the entire voting membership? If not, how many voted and what was the breakdown?

I would be more impressed with the results were there some string players rather than one tuba player. Come to think of it, I know a professional cellist who studied with Jackie Du Pre in the early 80's ... I wonder what that person would say?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Becca said:


> You listed 3 people earlier ... is that the entire voting membership? If not, how many voted and what was the breakdown?
> 
> I would be more impressed with the results were there some string players rather than one tuba player. Come to think of it, I know a professional cellist who studied with Jackie Du Pre in the early 80's ... I wonder what that person would say?


if you can hook me up with that person I am willing to do a blind listening piece with him or her easily .

One tuba player
One former vocal coach (my stepdad)
One opera lover 

quite a variety. It's like American Idol to me but who knows. It was 3-0 easily for Alisa's performance.

I played the following in order:

1) Sol Gabetta's version
2) Jacqueline du Pre's version
3) Alisa Weilerstein's version


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

albertfallickwang said:


> if you can hook me up with that person I am willing to do a blind listening piece with him or her easily .
> 
> One tuba player
> One former vocal coach (my stepdad)
> ...


"Definitive"?? If I remember my statistics correctly, you need a random sampling of approximately 1000 to get a result which is +-3%. I wonder what the standard deviation would be from 3?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Becca said:


> "Definitive"?? If I remember my statistics correctly, you need a random sampling of approximately 1000 to get a result which is +-3%. I wonder what the standard deviation would be from 3?


okay, let me rephrase. It would be "subjectively definitive." Sorry I wasn't specific enough.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Surprise! "A.1. was originally developed, produced, and marketed in the United Kingdom as a brand in 1831 and was officially registered as a trademark in the U.S. in 1895, and was later imported and distributed in the United States by G.F. Heublein & Bros in 1906. Although the sauce is widely available in the U.S. and Canada, in the UK, its country of origin, it is currently only sold by Tesco and Ocado."
> 
> Also: "The original sauce upon which A.1. is based was created in 1824 by Henderson William Brand, a chef to King George IV of the United Kingdom."


Greetings Ken I don't believe we've met, it's nice to meet you. I didn't know that and I am thoroughly I'm pressed by your knowledge of sauces so congratulations sir the hat is tipped. :tiphat:

Kind Regards,

Fox


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Homemade A.1. Steak Sauce

1/2 c. cold water
1/4 c. golden raisins
1/2 c. aged balsamic vinegar
1/4 c. worcestershire sauce
1/4 c. ketchup
1/4 c. dijon mustard (don’t substitute or you won’t get the same product)
a pinch of cayenne for some heat
1/4 t. black pepper
1 garlic clove, cut in half
1/2 t. celery seed
1/4 t. kosher salt
1 large orange

Cut the orange in half and cut one of the halves into quarters. 

Add all ingredients (except orange) to a medium saucepan. Add two orange segments, squeezing the juices into the pan first. Give it a good mixing.

On low heat simmer sauce for about 15 minutes. You want bubbles just breaking the surface, not a rolling boil or it will get too thick. 

After 15 minutes, strain this through a fine mesh strainer. Squeeze out all the juices.

Before you adjust the seasoning, you have to let this cool completely. If you season this hot, it will taste different when it’s cold.

Once it’s cooled, then taste for salt and pepper adjustments. I left the salt and pepper as is, I did add more garlic and a few chunks of onion (during the cooking process) though, so it would have more than a hint of garlic and just a teaser of onion flavor. 

Yield: 1 3/4 cups

And it's as creamy as Sutherland singing an aria.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

albertfallickwang said:


> No complaints. For that you get to enjoy a lovely clip of the latter Jenkins singing for your reference.


One is not assumed. ​


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Fox said:


> ...I am thoroughly impressed by your knowledge of sauces so congratulations sir the hat is tipped. :tiphat:


Nice to meet you too. Re sauces, Wiki makes anybody an instant expert! Even somebody like me, who knows nothing about them.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

In my opinion, Alice Sara Ott plays the Grieg Piano Concerto here






better than

Arthur Rubenstein could touch...


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Out of all the Apostles I've heard. This is the best. And it is only 3 or 4 years old.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

May I suggest that it's much easier to find a new recording that's better than some older, definitive one if you don't actually believe in the concept of a "definitive" recording in the first place?

Isn't it more sensible to acknowledge the existence of several excellent recordings of a piece (regardless of their age), especially when there are dozens or even hundreds of versions to choose from?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Fox said:


> I apologise if you thought I was being condescending, I posted that in jest. I had never heard of A1 Sauce before I don't believe it is sold in the UK.
> 
> From the short time I have known Albert however I did not think it was anything but a compliment he is a good chap. :tiphat:
> 
> ...


No apology needed. I see my "I know..." comment may have come across as a little surly. :tiphat:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> May I suggest that it's much easier to find a new recording that's better than some older, definitive one if you don't actually believe in the concept of a "definitive" recording in the first place?
> 
> Isn't it more sensible to acknowledge the existence of several excellent recordings of a piece (regardless of their age), especially when there are dozens or even hundreds of versions to choose from?


This is definitely right. No definitive readings but certainly a group of wonderful recordings is what keeps us happy.


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## Ludric (Oct 29, 2014)

The Freiburger Barockorchester's 2013 performance of J.S. Bach's Concerto in d minor for two violins, BWV 1043:






... is much better than the 1958 performance with David Oistrakh, Yehudi Menuhin, and the ORTF National Orchestra:


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> No apology needed. I see my "I know..." comment may have come across as a little surly. :tiphat:


Thank you it was nice of you to reply in the way you did. I admit at first I thought I had offended you and did feel rather bad about it. As it's not the first impression I like to make on people.

Although I had spotted your avatar once or twice it wasn't until later on when I actually began to browse the forum I realized you are not the kind of person to be snarky.

So I must ask are you an Eastern green mamba or a Western green mamba? Judging by your avatar I would put my money on eastern. I've always liked mambas especially black mambas. :tiphat:








Regards,

Fox


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

The sound quality of the older live recording is not the best. This version of Menuhin with Christian Ferras is much better.






If I want a much faster HIP recording I go with Andrew Manze and Rachel Podger and the Academy of Ancient Music.






Personally, I like both versions. They are both far different from each other yet each brilliant in their own way.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The whole concept of "better" is dumb. Older performances are done in a style that no longer exists. Comparing it to modern performance style is pointless is apples and oranges. Modern style and older style bring out different aspects of the music. Me? I have both HIP and older recordings of the same works and I think both are good. But you can't expect a 78 to be HIP any more than you can expect Lang Lang to be Schnabel.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

bigshot said:


> The whole concept of "better" is dumb. Older performances are done in a style that no longer exists. Comparing it to modern performance style is pointless is apples and oranges. Modern style and older style bring out different aspects of the music. Me? I have both HIP and older recordings of the same works and I think both are good. But you can't expect a 78 to be HIP any more than you can expect Lang Lang to be Schnabel.


I agree. There is no definitive performance methinks.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The interest lies in the uniqueness of the performance, not in the notes written down on a sheet of paper


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)




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