# Haydn Recommendations



## ChamberNut

Hi everyone. I have a problem with my classical music. I don't yet have any Haydn. Main reason being is......where does one start!   

So many compositions. 

I would like some recommendations. Perhaps 5 recommendations in each of the following categories:

A) Symphonies
B) String Quartets
C) Sonatas
D) Concertos

Also, I would like some recommendations on great recordings of Haydn's "Last Seven Words of Christ", the string quartet version.

Thanks alot, I appreciate all of your input!


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## opus67

ChamberNut said:


> Hi everyone. I have a problem with my classical music. I don't yet have any Haydn.


Big deal...I don't yet have a copy of _Il Quattro Stagioni_.  



> I would like some recommendations. Perhaps 5 recommendations in each of the following categories:
> 
> A) Symphonies
> B) String Quartets
> C) Sonatas
> D) Concertos


We are more or less on the same boat. I'd love some Haydn in my collection, too, but, right now, I don't want it so badly that I would actually go out and by it in place of, say, some solo piano, which is heavily lacking in my CDs.

If you want recommendations of works, I'd go with the obvious...
A) London
B) Op.76 (I've seen a CD of quartets 2-4 with the ABQ (EMI))
C) No idea...I've heard a couple with Emmanuel Ax on the piano - sounds pretty.
D) Definitely the trumpet, but beyond that I haven't heard any


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## Morigan

I mainly have orchestral music by Haydn. In fact, it's only been about a year since I got my first Haydn CD.. I have come to greatly enjoy his music.

A) This is hard. People will tell you that all symphonies after 8X are great. My personal favourites (and obvious favourites) are 104 'London', 103 'Drumroll', 94 'Surprise', 100 'Military', 102 'The Clock' and 88 (no nickname).

B) I've always heard that Haydn's quartets were awesome. I'm eager to learn more myself.

C) Ditto

D) Yes, the trumpet concerto is excellent. The 2 Cello concerti are wonderful. Haydn wrote a couple Piano concerti too, but the only one I've heard is the D major, Hob. XVIII. I think it's probably the most popular.


I personally have never heard The Seven Last Words of Christ. If you're insterested in Oratorio, "Die Schöpfung" (the Creation) is really great. "The Seasons" is also very nice.


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## opus67

Morigan said:


> The 2 Cello concerti are wonderful.


Oh, my...how did I manage to forget _that_!  angry: at myself)

Indeed that's one beautiful piece of music (the second concerto, that is) and the first movement is just great. I have heard the du Pre/Barenboim version a few times.


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## ChamberNut

ChamberNut said:


> Also, I would like some recommendations on great recordings of Haydn's *"Last Seven Words of Christ*", the string quartet version.


I read a review on the DG label, Emerson String Quartet CD of this, and it seems to be very highly regarded.


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## Rachmaninov

For Haydn's music, I highly recommend people to try to listen to its symphony No. 49 'La Passione', actually this symphony was composed for the Holy Week in 1768 under the "Sturm und Drang" period.

It is very unique from any other classical period works, its 1st mvt is adagio, 2nd- Allegro di molto,3rd-menuet trio, 4th-presto, all the 4 mvts were written in F minor, only once shifted to F major in 3rd mvt. Other than the technicals, its melody is very spiritual, a lot of pressure. 

I love it very much, and my version is played by Amsterdam Baroque Soloist conducted by Ton Koopman. A very original taste!!!! You may try it!!


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## Handel

Good question Chamber 

1) Symphonies:

Must: 6-8, 45, 82-87, 93-104

Should: 26, 39, 48, 53, 73, 88-92

Could: 31, 43, 60, 77

More later...


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## StlukesguildOhio

I have a fairly decent Haydn collection. Among the works I would recommend:

*Symphonies:*

The _"London" Symphonies _(93-104) by Sir Colin Davis
The _"Paris" Symphonies_- Sir Neville Marriner

*Choral Works: *

_Die Schöpfung_ (The Creation) John Eliot Gardiner or the Herbert von Karajan version which is worth while for the singing of Paul Wunderlich alone (to say nothing of Gundula Janowitz, Walter berry, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Krista Ludwig, etc...).
_Die Jahrenszeiten _(The Seasons) Sir Neville Marriner
_Missa Sanctae Caecillae_ (and other masses)- Simon Preston and The Academy of Ancient Music

*Concertos:*

Cello Concertos 1 &2- Rostropovich and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields

*Quartets:*

The Kodály Quartet have recorded marvelous versions of many of the key quartets... and at a bargain price on Naxos they are not to be missed. Look for Op. 50, Op. 74, and especially Op. 76. I've heard a marvelous recording by the Landsays as well. I also have a lovely recording of the Op. 77 by the Alban Berg Quartet which is oddly paired with a Berio piece.

*The Seven Last Words:*

When I first went looking for this piece I found few recordings of the piece in circulation. Now there are more than a handful. You should know that there are multiple versions of the work including the original orchestral version, the full oratorio, a version scored for keyboard and a version for string quartet. I have the Fitzwilliam String Quartet version which is quite good and I have heard great things about the Emerson Quartet recording. If you are after the oratorio check out the Concentus Musicus version with Harnoncourt or the Berlin Akademie fur Alte Musik.

*Sonatas:*

Certainly get the Emanuel Ax recordings... quite marvelous!


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## david johnson

how about his trumpet concerto? nice and fun.

dj


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## ChamberNut

Thank you all for your recommendations! 

I have some direction now on where to start!

*St. Luke, I've also heard great things of Kodaly Quartet regarding some of Haydn's quartets.


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## ChamberNut

St. Luke,

I did know that "Last Seven Words....." was recorded under multiple versions, but I thought it was "originally" written for string quartet, not orchestral. Thank you for setting me straight.


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## Handel

Then later.... 

2) String quartets: opus 20 and 76 are the best imho. Naxos CDs are a good bargain - good price/good performance

3) Sonatas... Can't help you. I am not a fan of music for solo piano. But if you accept in this category his piano trios, which were considered piano sonatas with violin according to him,you will find many good works. Actually, I know only four of them (the one of the CD I own) http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Last-4-...7556940?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190204527&sr=1-3

4) Haydn's concertos are less memorable than Mozart's own. A few of them are quite interesting: his trumpet concerto, his cello concerto. And I could add his sinfonia concertante...


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## Handel

If you want some orchestras in particular:

A) For the symphonies, look at

Orchestra of the 18th century (for later symphonies)
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (idem)
La Petite Bande (idem)
The Hanover Band (all of them. A very good collection)
You can look too at Naxos, especially for symphonies 6-8 (played by Northern Chamber orchestra)

B) For string quartets, Kodaly quartet recordings are quite fine. (Naxos)

C) For Haydn's trios look at the link I gave in the previous post.

D) Was a good buy. The oboe concerto, which is very good, was attributed to Haydn but is not from him.. http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Trumpet...7556940?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190205234&sr=1-4


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## StlukesguildOhio

Sonatas... Can't help you. I am not a fan of music for solo piano.

Would that also apply to Handel's keyboard suites?


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## Handel

stlukesguild2 said:


> Sonatas... Can't help you. I am not a fan of music for solo piano.
> 
> Would that also apply to Handel's keyboard suites?


To some extent, yes.









But I prefer solo harpsichord to solo piano.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Handel;
I used to be a purist when I first started to listen to Baroque music... perhaps because it seemed that there were few choices to be as to hearing this music the way it had been written and on the period instruments. This is certainly no longer true. There are any number of purist recordings available. Now some of my favorite recordings of keyboard pieces by Bach, Handel and Scarlatti were performed on piano. I am certainly quite enamored of Handel's keyboard suites played on piano by Richter... in spite of the fact that they are in no way as brilliant as the solo keyboard works of Bach.


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## Handel

Generally speaking, I think Bach's instrumental muic is better than Handel's (except some pieces, like concerti grossi op. 6 which is on par if not better than Bach concertante production...

It's in vocal music where I think Handel is superior to Bach, which explains why I prefer, generally speaking handelian music.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Handel; I tend to agree with your assertion... at least to the point of sharing the belief that Handel's vocal music is probably superior to his instrumental output. As much as I admire his keyboard suites, I must say that I have heard nothing by Handel that can come close to rivaling Bach's _Well-Tempered Clavier, Goldberg Variations, Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin,_ the _Art of the Fugue_, the _Six Suites for Unaccompanied Cello_... to say nothing of his organ work. While I greatly admire Handel's _Concerti Grossi Op. 6_ it is probably debatable to suggest that they are better than any of Bach's concerti... especially considering the _Brandenburg Concerti_, the _Concerti for Violin_, and the _Keyboard Concerti_. As for Handel's vocal productions... I will admit that with the obvious exception of the _Messiah_, they are probably underrated. There is a great deal of marvelous music to be found in this oeuvre which has been unjustly ignored. This is probably owed as much to the excessive fame of his _Messiah_ as it is to Bach's towering reputation. I personally admire the light... "Italianate" manner of Handel's vocal which is certainly something quite different from much of Bach's more brooding, darkly Germanic vocal pieces (although one shouldn't ignore the sensuality and un-repressed joy that also exists in these works). Nevertheless, I am an unabashed Bach fanatic and would not live without many of Bach's marvelous cantatas (nos. 8, 140, 147 come immediately to mind... but there are many more). These works display a good deal of Bach's greatest greatest instrumental composition. The variety of orchestration and the brilliance of many of these works is all the more stunning when one considers the pressure to merely turn out the product that the composer was under. Unfortunately Handel was one of those artists who always seems as if he were standing in the shadows of another... much like Haydn to Mozart, Schubert to Beethoven, or Schumann to Brahms... this, in spite of the fact that any one of these composers is certainly a towering figure in his own right.


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## ChamberNut

stlukesguild2 said:


> Unfortunately Handel was one of those artists who always seems as if he were standing in the shadows of another... much like Haydn to Mozart, Schubert to Beethoven, or Schumann to Brahms... this, in spite of the fact that any one of these composers is certainly a towering figure in his own right.


Well said.


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## Chi_townPhilly

stlukesguild2 said:


> I must say that I have heard nothing by Handel that can come close to rivaling Bach's _Well-Tempered Clavier, Goldberg Variations, Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin,_ the _Art of the Fugue_, the _Six Suites for Unaccompanied Cello_... to say nothing of his organ work. While I greatly admire Handel's _Concerti Grossi Op. 6_ it is probably debatable to suggest that they are better than any of Bach's concerti... especially considering the _Brandenburg Concerti_, the _Concerti for Violin_, and the _Keyboard Concerti_.


 !_________  !_________  !_________  !

This sounds like it could be a _Necromonicon_-like incantation for the resurrection of a prolific (famous/infamous/notorious) poster in the Classical Music Message Board community- someone who would say that our regard for Bach over Handel is profoundly misguided. Let's hope we don't go there. [BTW- no names, please... I have reason to believe that the "legend" searches for uses of his own name.]

Then again, since he's made no mention of this board since he left, except to rubbish it, perhaps we don't have anything to worry about

As long as I'm here, I might as well say something relevant to the initial topic. Good gateway works to Haydn are the (obvious) London Symphonies, with the counter-intuitive proviso that the "non-nicknamed" works do not seem to me to be in any way inferior to their more famous "nicknamed" counterparts. Oh, and the Cello concertos. They're great, too.


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## ChamberNut

Chi_town/Philly;15823[B said:


> As long as I'm here, I might as well say something relevant to the initial topic.[/B]


Yes, please! This is a Haydn recommendations thread. , not Bach vs. Handel.


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## Handel

Well, if you like Beethoven's symphonies, you should like those by Haydn since he had some influence on Beethoven. Of course, it is different there is a haydnian presence, particularly in the earlier ones.


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## ChamberNut

stlukesguild2 said:


> *The Seven Last Words:*
> 
> When I first went looking for this piece I found few recordings of the piece in circulation. Now there are more than a handful. You should know that there are multiple versions of the work including the original orchestral version, the full oratorio, a version scored for keyboard and a version for string quartet. I have the Fitzwilliam String Quartet version which is quite good and I* have heard great things about the Emerson Quartet recording*. If you are after the oratorio check out the Concentus Musicus version with Harnoncourt or the Berlin Akademie fur Alte Musik.


I now have the Emerson String Quartet version. Wonderful!

The 3rd mvt. _Sonata II: Grave e Cantabile_ is as beautiful a string quartet movement as I've ever heard. Right at the top with Beethoven's Op. 130 Cavatina, and Barber's Adagio for Strings.


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## Kevin Acker

I'm a bit of a Haydn nut, and for symphonies, besides the obvious ones (Paris and London symphonies), I'm a big fan of his "Sturm und Drang" period. Can't go wrong with the Tafelmusik or Dorati recordings. Symphonie no 44 ("Trauer") and no 45 ("Farewell") are my favorite Hayden symphonies of all.


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## islandersbob

A. Symphonies
my favorite is the Paris Symphonies (82-87) by Neville Marriner
any of the named symphonies tend to be pretty good 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphonies_by_Joseph_Haydn is a good reference

I like most of Haydn's Symphonies, but that should be a good start

B. String Quartet
Lots of good ones to choose from
my favorite is "The Lark" (Hob. III:63), but Op. 64 (Hob. III:63-68) as a whole is really good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_string_quartets_by_Joseph_Haydn

C. Sonatas
I'm not the biggest fan of solo piano, but I do like Hob. XVI:52.
I'd suggest checking out youtube and searching Haydn Piano Sonata. Seems like a fair number of them are there. Just a note to remember, anything with Hob. XVI:?? is a piano sonata

D. Concertos
As stated before by others, Haydn's Trumpet and Cello concertos are top notch and worth listening too. My favorite is Hob. VIIB:2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_string_quartets_by_Joseph_Haydn This might be helpful in eliminating some of the classification confusion with Haydn and the Hoboken system. I know it helped me out alot when I first started listening to Haydn.

Hope all this helps!!!


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## Mark Harwood

All previous posters to this topic know far more about Haydn's music than I ever shall, but I'll recommend this just because I enjoy it so much:
Paul Galbraith Plays Haydn - Delos DE 3239. On the eight-string Brahms guitar, Mr. G. plays four keyboard sonatas. I can't compare them to anything, they simply stand up as delightful pieces.


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## Air

For sonatas, I would try XVI:20 in c minor, XVI:49 in e flat major, and the c major XVI:50


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## Roi N

*Symphonies*
101, 93, 98, 62, 63

*Quartets*
Op. 33 No. 1-3, Op. 50 No. 1, Op. 54 No. 1

*Sonatas*
No. 59-62, No. 50 (Oh man, is that 5 already? No. 56 has to get in here somehow...)

*Concerti*
Piano Concerto No. 11, Cello Concerto No. 1&2, Trumpet Concerto, Horn Concerto in D

Enjoy the best composer who ever lived through and through!


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## Funny

I will echo the rec of Symphony 49 - fascinating piece. Also Symphony 80. And in general, I would argue for a novice starting somewhere in the late-middle symphonies rather than with Paris or London. People fawn over these and they have a lot of good stuff but I think Haydn's language and intentions are easier to quickly grasp and enjoy with some of those earlier ones.


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## Vaneyes

Symphonies - Pinnock (Sturm & Drang), Szell, Harnoncourt, Kuijken (Nos. 82 - 87)
String Quartets - Mosaiques Qt., Lindsay Qt., Auryn Qt., Tokyo Qt., Endellion Qt., Coull Qt., L'Archibudelli
Piano Sonatas - Sudbin, Pogorelich, Hamelin, Xiao-Mei, Feltsman, Ts'ong, Schiff, Pletnev, Brendel, Richter, Gould, Bavouzet
Piano Concerto - No. 11, w. Argerich (EMI, rec. 1983)

:tiphat:


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## Xaltotun

To me, choral is where Haydn really shines. Die Schöpfung, Die Jahreszeiten and the masses are all amazing, full of energy and especially expression. What's the opposite of boring? Gripping, electrifying, interesting? That's what they are.


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## Epictetus

eh, where is 44 and 49?


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## Pugg

Epictetus said:


> eh, where is 44 and 49?


In the box, where they belong :lol:


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## markldunn

Tough to beat the Piano Trios performed by the Beaux Trio - it's really one of the best complete cycles of anything I have ever heard.


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## Pugg

markldunn said:


> Tough to beat the Piano Trios performed by the Beaux Trio - it's really one of the best complete cycles of anything I have ever heard.


Completely agree, also a very warm welcome to Talk Classical.


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## bigshot

Bernstein's 60s Haydn Symphonies with New York are fantastic. They set the standard for Haydn.


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