# ok so I'm 16 years old and I'm wondering how do you people talk so well!



## violinplaya (Mar 13, 2013)

Your words are like classical music to my ears.


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## violinplaya (Mar 13, 2013)

I can play really well but I just dont have a way with words.


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

Read as much as you can and unless you have some sort of pathological disability any communicative problem you might have should go away.

I done that when I were a kid and now I talk real good.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

It's called "rhetoric." In ye olde times, conversation was somewhat of an art form. Every bit of speech had multiple meanings, and those meanings could be twisted in an aesthetic manner. To accomplish this, a comprehensive knowledge of the language you wish to speak in is absolutely vital. Once you have that, you can start learning rhetoric by voicing in your head different ways of saying something before you type it. Use the version which sounds best to you and seems to suit your purpose best; analyze why it sounds best and store that nugget of information to make the process faster in the future. Keep also in mind the effect different forms of punctuation have. For example, an em-dash (—) can, in certain contexts, perform the same grammatical function as a semicolon or a parenthesis, but has a slightly different effect. Naturally, continuous study is a must. Never stop studying linguistics. "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" Practice, practice, practice, as they say.

If you're in the USA, I'd suggest taking an AP English class when it comes available.


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, read a lot of books haha. That is precisely how I acquired my vast vocabulary :lol: I'm 17, so it can be done at a young age. Read challenging literature!


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

Kopachris said:


> It's called "rhetoric." In ye olde times, conversation was somewhat of an art form. Every bit of speech had multiple meanings, and those meanings could be twisted in an aesthetic manner. To accomplish this, a comprehensive knowledge of the language you wish to speak in is absolutely vital. Once you have that, you can start learning rhetoric by voicing in your head different ways of saying something before you type it. Use the version which sounds best to you and seems to suit your purpose best; analyze why it sounds best and store that nugget of information to make the process faster in the future. Keep also in mind the effect different forms of punctuation have. For example, an em-dash (-) can, in certain contexts, perform the same grammatical function as a semicolon or a parenthesis, but has a slightly different effect. Naturally, continuous study is a must. Never stop studying linguistics. "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" Practice, practice, practice, as they say.
> 
> If you're in the USA, I'd suggest taking an AP English class when it comes available.


AP English is a great option, providing that your instructor isn't a babbling idiot who takes no initiative whatsoever in grading assignments. So, hopefully that will not be the case for you.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

So... what is _AP_ English as compared to ordinary English?


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> So... what is _AP_ English as compared to ordinary English?


Advanced Placement (read: "harder")


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> So... what is _AP_ English as compared to ordinary English?


It is a college level course taught in high school. If you pass the AP test at the end of the year, your college credits for English are taken care of.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Strive for precision. E.g., you actually don't know how any of us _talk_.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I might add to all of the above, although one can speak or write well at any age, having a lot of life experience gives you an easier well to draw from. It just gets easier with age. At least until you reach an age when you forget what you were -- what I was -- I mean . . . What was the question again?


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, I'm 16 as well, but I like to think I have a way with words because linguistics is my primary interest. Ever since I started studying Latin I became even more focused on English grammar and the structure of sentences (and have even begun, in some cases, to form English sentences similar to Latin ones; that may not necessarily be a good thing per se, but it is noticeable in my writing habits). In addition to that, I have to vouch for AP English; my teacher has focused a lot of rhetorical devices, argumentative strategy, logical fallacies, etc. Becoming aware of those things also helped to improve my writing. 

As for talking about music, since I'm not a musician or music expert, my descriptions of pieces of music and why I like them tend to sound amateurish and unimpressive


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

violinplaya said:


> Your words are like classical music to my ears.


Don't worry it'll come and in any case most of them wish they were sixteen I'll bet.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

violinplaya said:


> I can play really well but I just dont have a way with words.


Don't worry, you're in good company there. Saint-Saens said "there is nothing more difficult than talking about music." I did a thread on this issue a short time ago here: http://www.talkclassical.com/24082-vladimir-ashkenazy-not-talking.html

Music itself is communication. But like any artform, it will mean different things to different people. That's why its so hard to convey one's thoughts about it, another thing is that is the most intangible of all the arts. With film, painting, sculpture, photography etc. you got something visual to have as a reference point. Something concrete so to speak. With literature, you got the word on the printed page. But music is much more ephemeral and fleeting, its interpretation VERY personal. Thats not to say that its always easier to talk/write about the other arts, but music is I think a special case. Basically, its harder.


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## Daimonion (Apr 22, 2012)

Don't worry. I am in a much worse situation - (1) I am not a native speaker, (2) my language competences (even those in my own language) are mediocre, (3) I am ignorant about music. Still, however, I courageously engage into discussions about music. World will not end because of it...


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

I am not a native speaker of English. I came from the Philippines where the two official languages were Filipino and English. English is taught from Elementary to College. There are times where I struggle to find words on how I can communicate what I feel on music. There are just feelings that one can feel, but can't describe verbally. I'm still learning new things, exploring new horizons where I can fully appreciate what music made me feel.


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

Tristan said:


> Well, I'm 16 as well, but I like to think I have a way with words because linguistics is my primary interest. Ever since I started studying Latin I became even more focused on English grammar and the structure of sentences (and have even begun, in some cases, to form English sentences similar to Latin ones; that may not necessarily be a good thing per se, but it is noticeable in my writing habits). In addition to that, I have to vouch for AP English; my teacher has focused a lot of rhetorical devices, argumentative strategy, logical fallacies, etc. Becoming aware of those things also helped to improve my writing.
> 
> As for talking about music, since I'm not a musician or music expert, my descriptions of pieces of music and why I like them tend to sound amateurish and unimpressive


Well, music IS hard to describe in words. I attempt at sheet music once in a while. It is a great tool for musicians to communicate. Across language barriers. A "conductor to be" was playing fiddle and noted the problems conductors were having and would make frustrated exhales as protest. He could hear all the parts as well as his own. He started taking conducting classes. He would hum at practice. One time the oboe player was not there so he sang the oboe part as well as conducting the small orchestra. The teacher told him to leave after the lesson as he had nothing more to learn.

His name was Paavo Berglund.


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## violinplaya (Mar 13, 2013)

Where do I get one of these 'books'?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Language is expressive; however obvious that statement might be, its acceptance hardly seems to translate into greater effort to refine one's communication.

There are two primary aspects of language: etymology and syntax. Competence with both is necessary in order to communicate most effectively.

Reading non-fiction is helpful to develop are clearer manner of articulation: academic studies and essays, especially.

Literature can help you increase your expressive power.

Both are ideal exercises to improve your syntax, but both sources can be treasure troves of new words! You might even consider studying a new language. By coming to understand the manner in which other languages express a sentiment, it can give you a unique insight into the characteristics of your own.

While English is decidedly a Germanic language, the long-term importation of Romance-language terms makes it possible to gain keen insights into the fundaments of English by studying either Germanic or Romance languages!

Best of luck!

Also, I share this admiration for the expressive capacities of TC members. It's a rare pleasure to read well-written posts.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

I agree with OboeKnight above; I was a voracious reader and still read but something called the Internet came along...
One thing you can do is if you are reading and you don't know what a word means, don't "blip" over it; LOOK UP THE DEFINITION.

I use "big" words in conversation all the time because their meanings are more precise for what I want to say.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

ahammel said:


> Advanced Placement (read: "harder")


is this where Americans learn how to accurately place the British semi-colon : )

j/k

that was a smiley at the end...not a semi-colon


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

violinplaya said:


> Where do I get one of these 'books'?


What for...? Don't you already have a book 

I can't honestly say I like rhetoric....in my day job people use professional rhetoric all the time.

It raises deceit to a new level.

Yet being able to communicate doesn't mean straddling a divide between either ******* territory or devious politician.

If communication is about charming others with rhetoric then it is equally fooling others with insincerity.

And insincere rhetoric is the worse kind.

Lol! The irony of saying enough.


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## bejart (Nov 16, 2012)

3 suggestions ---

1. Read an online dictionary to increase your vocabulary. Use it to look up words you don't know, words you think you might know and words you're certain of the meaning because they often have secondary meanings or applications. I use http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/syntax.

2. Watch any BBC series of historical period drama to improve syntax and sentence structure.

3. Watch any US sitcom rerun for idiomatic expressions and mild humor.

Okay, that one last may be a stretch ---


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Head_case said:


> is this where Americans learn how to accurately place the British semi-colon : )


I did indeed learn about the placement of a semicolon in AP English; is there a difference between a regular semicolon and a "British semi-colon?"


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

moody said:


> Don't worry it'll come and in any case most of them wish they were sixteen I'll bet.


Yeah, repeating high school is something I dream about night and day. NOT!!!

But er... do the reading thing. Even if it doesn't help to make you more articulate, you'll become self educated. This is the best way to go. Forget the grade school history books.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Tristan said:


> Well, I'm 16 as well, but I like to think I have a way with words because linguistics is my primary interest. Ever since I started studying Latin I became even more focused on English grammar and the structure of sentences (and have even begun, in some cases, to form English sentences similar to Latin ones; that may not necessarily be a good thing per se, but it is noticeable in my writing habits). In addition to that, I have to vouch for AP English; my teacher has focused a lot of rhetorical devices, argumentative strategy, logical fallacies, etc. Becoming aware of those things also helped to improve my writing.


Ha, that's cool! I've been noticing more stuff about grammar etc. since I started Swedish.....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> There are just feelings that one can feel, but can't describe verbally.


try visually


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> try visually


I can't draw or paint. Sadly, I have no talent whatsoever.


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## violinplaya (Mar 13, 2013)

Everything's fine and all, but you can't tell me you gained this ability just by reading. I'm wondering what classes to take, what to self study.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

violinplaya said:


> Your words are like classical music to my ears.


It's like catching an accent. You just hang around and participate in communities like this to catch it.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

violinplaya said:


> Everything's fine and all, but you can't tell me you gained this ability just by reading. I'm wondering what classes to take, what to self study.


No, we didn't gain this ability _just_ by reading, but reading was at least half of it. The other half was learning how language works--both the English Language and language in general. That gave us the ability to analyze a piece of language to determine its meaning(s) and store that nugget of information away for future use. Reading gave us the material to analyze. In many of us who have a predilection for curiosity, the process is largely relegated to our subconscious. (Also, we like to use a lot of big words just because--but it's only advisable when you actually know what the word means and it fits the rhythm of the sentence.)

In other words, reading _is_ our self-study. We observe language in use, we infer its rules from its use, and we utilize those rules in our own use.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Kopachris said:


> No, we didn't gain this ability _just_ by reading, but reading was at least half of it. The other half was learning how language works--both the English Language and language in general. That gave us the ability to analyze a piece of language to determine its meaning(s) and store that nugget of information away for future use. Reading gave us the material to analyze. In many of us who have a predilection for curiosity, the process is largely relegated to our subconscious. (Also, we like to use a lot of big words just because--but it's only advisable when you actually know what the word means and it fits the rhythm of the sentence.)
> 
> *In other words, reading is our self-study. We observe language in use, we infer its rules from its use, and we utilize those rules in our own use.*


KopaChris, this is exactly what I was going to write. :tiphat:


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## userfume (Nov 21, 2012)

Order "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn"

jokes


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> I can't draw or paint. Sadly, I have no talent whatsoever.


Your talent is your addiction to Schubert. I couldn't do that for as long as you have!


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

violinplaya said:


> Everything's fine and all, but you can't tell me you gained this ability just by reading. I'm wondering what classes to take, what to self study.


You're obviously not illiterate, I think you just need some practice, that's all.

Reading and writing are how you learn to read and write. It is that simple. My advice is to get some fiction books, short story collections may be good to start, and invest in a good dictionary (Collins and Oxford both make good dictionaries), that way you can look up any words you don't understand and within 10 seconds you'll know exactly what it means and how to apply it in a sentence. To consolidate what you're learning you should practise writing too, either on paper or on the computer. Try to apply in your own work the examples of grammar, sentence structure and new words you've discovered in the stories you read.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

As a retired English teacher, I naturally go along with the advice to read, & reading was how I became articulate myself. 
But - 1) I remember when I was 16 going to my English teacher in despair, saying I was worried about taking A-level English (an advanced UK qualification) because though poetry & literature made me feel things, I couldn't put my ideas into words. He said, at least I wanted to make progress & that it would come. As it did. As it will for you, but not, of course, overnight.
and 2) I have a nephew who has never read, but he is interested in the world and has always watched documentaries & programmes on science on TV, and talked to the adults in his life on serious subjects. As a result, he has a good vocabulary and is very good at discussion, debating & making logical points.
If you continue wanting to increase your vocabulary & ability to discuss, and you engage with the opportunities around you, I think improvement is inevitable. I wish I'd had more students like you in my classes!


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## FLighT (Mar 7, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> You're obviously not illiterate, I think you just need some practice, that's all.
> 
> Reading and writing are how you learn to read and write. It is that simple. My advice is to get some fiction books, short story collections may be good to start, and invest in a good dictionary (Collins and Oxford both make good dictionaries), that way you can look up any words you don't understand and within 10 seconds you'll know exactly what it means and how to apply it in a sentence. To consolidate what you're learning you should practise writing too, either on paper or on the computer. Try to apply in your own work the examples of grammar, sentence structure and new words you've discovered in the stories you read.


Very true. Unfortunately in a world of increasing sound bites, texting abbreviations, and written news and other "of interest" articles being replaced by 60 second videos prefaced by a 30 second commercial for something useless, I fear we are headed back to grunting and pointing as a principal means of communicating.


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## violinplaya (Mar 13, 2013)

I don't know how this got so many likes! What a great community!


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

violinplaya said:


> What a great community!


Ugh. Me agree.


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## PavelC (Oct 6, 2012)

violinplaya said:


> Your words are like classical music to my ears.


This was my problem as well, being on the forum not for so long, I just enjoyed reading the posts, and what a read! Recently I couldn't sit quiet anymore, I just had to express myself. 
Many of the guys above have recommended reading as an option, but I think this is just too vague. Anyways, if you haven't been a ferocious reader before, pick a topic you are most interested in, one that surely would keep you focused. Once found ,read as much as you can, it's not as much about the subject, as you should get used to it (the action of reading). Reading isn't that easy, but just like playing an instrument, or anything else, doing it over and over and over again makes you better at it. 
If you get tired fast, try reading at a table, not while laying on a bed.

One advice I would give is start cultivating whimseys. Try studying about various subjects that many care less, and something you know nothing about. 
The last but not least is try being very pedantic, at least at first. Pay good attention on your punctuation and grammar, no matter what you do, whether writing a text message to your friends, updating a status on facebook, or writing here.

:tiphat:


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## FLighT (Mar 7, 2013)

rrudolph said:


> Ugh. Me agree.


Laugh out loud!:lol:


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Yeah, repeating high school is something I dream about night and day. NOT!!!
> 
> But er... do the reading thing. Even if it doesn't help to make you more articulate, you'll become self educated. This is the best way to go. Forget the grade school history books.


My post was a fairly mediocre attempt at humour,
But after your clever post I thought I should return to the subject.
I was bad both at home and at school when I was a teenager, so at 15 I took myself off and joined the army,which was just about the best thing I could have done.
I'm 75 now and look back at the fact that I never had the chance to go to high school (or the equivalent).
So you were pampered and fortunate were you not?
Well, I wish now that I could go back and attend high school and I bet I'm not alone in this sentiment.
I hope you made good use of what you experienced !


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Mean no to discouraging... I'm but, uh.. 35 years old now!


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