# Universal Appreciation



## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Don't you find that you are willing to sample every type of music, whereas those with a passion for rock or R&B wouldn't even consider listening to a classical peice? It just goes to show which denomination have the most open minds!


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## Hexameron (Oct 7, 2006)

Well I have to say I used to be one of those with a passion for rock who would never listen to "a bunch of guys in wigs." Once I heard moonlight sonata that all changed. After I discovered what classical music really was, I said goodbye to every other kind of music forever. For me it was like I had only been looking at drawings in comic books and then suddenly I realized that hundreds of museums of the finest art ever created exists out there.


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## orquesta tipica (Jan 17, 2007)

Since the time I turned to classical music, I haven't gone much into rock or r&b or "hip hop". But maybe once in a decade or so, I wonder if perhaps I am missing out on something, so I check it out, then it wears thin on me, and I give up on it again.

Now...that's not to say I'm exclusively listening to classical music. I said I don't often listen to rock, r&b or hip hop--but there's more than that to choose from.

I'm crazy for tango music, especially tango songs. They're almost like miniature classical pieces to me, or miniature operas. My screen name, "orchesta tipica", is a tango sextet, which is made up of two violins, a piano, a double bass, and two bandoneons. If I were polled on what my favorite instrument is, I'd say the bandoneon. I love this music. I have twenty to thirty cds of it. My favorite singers are usually old-school ones, like Libertad Lamarque, Susana Rinaldi, Floreal Ruiz, Alberto Podesta, Roberto Goyeneche, and of course, the king of tango--not Piazzola--but Carlos Gardel. Piazzola is a major force to be sure, and I love him too. But I don't at the same time discount the more traditional tango that I find myself listening to quite a bit.

And then I have recently grown fond of Brazil's bossa nova, from the most famous standards to the not so famous. I know it was a big pop culture thing in the 60s, but there is a lot to admire about their way of singing, that much of it doesn't seem dated at all; some of these songs are very soothing and delicately sublime to the ears.

Almost from the time I delved into classical music, I've also explored traditional music from around the world. I love different cultures, and there's no better way of getting to know them than by way of their music. I have in my collection classical music from Iran, Central Asia, Russian balalaika music, and the Soviet Army chorus, Quebecois, Cajun and Zydeco even, and African music, Balinese gamelan, Peking opera, and I have a whole case full of Indian classical music from the north and the south. And of course I'm fond of certain voices, like that of Edith Piaff and Charles Aznavour.

And I like jazz, which covers a wide spectrum of styles within itself. I'm particularly fond of 20s jazz, like that of Louis Armstrong as a young man, and Bix Beiderbecke. One can't go wrong with acquiring a complete set of Armstrong's "Hot Fives and Sevens." It should be an indelible part of anyone's jazz collection. And then I like some of Herbie Hancock's music from the 60s.

And then film scores can sometimes be very interesting. I'll see a great movie with a great soundtrack and want to buy it afterwards, and not just for the music, but because I like to think of the movie when I listen to it.


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

How does anyone know that rock fans won't sample classical. The chances are they have sampled it and don't like it. That's my experience of people who are not keen on classical whenever I have asked. On the few occasions I have tried to "enlighten" them about the virtues of classical, I have never succeeded in the sense of achieving any lasting converts.


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## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

I was a rock fan (anything ranging from the Beach Boys to Black Sabbath), mainly hard rock, from my youth until 'bout 3 years ago.

It was a gradual transition, but now I hardly ever listen to any pop rock/hard rock (old or new), and my taste for music is almost exclusively classical music.

Who would have thought? Not I! But I can tell you that I, personally, have never experienced anything quite as beautiful, enriching and rewarding as 'getting into' classical music. It's a wonderful world!


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

ChamberNut said:


> I was a rock fan (anything ranging from the Beach Boys to Black Sabbath), mainly hard rock, from my youth until 'bout 3 years ago.
> 
> It was a gradual transition, but now I hardly ever listen to any pop rock/hard rock (old or new), and my taste for music is almost exclusively classical music.
> 
> Who would have thought? Not I! But I can tell you that I, personally, have never experienced anything quite as beautiful, enriching and rewarding as 'getting into' classical music. It's a wonderful world!


I can imagine some married couples finishing up in the divorce courts unless the "other half" has a similar transition. Reason for breakdown:" irreconcilable differences in musical tastes". I suppose the moral is don't get hooked up until you have sorted out your musical tastes.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

After I discovered what classical music really was, I said goodbye to every other kind of music forever. For me it was like I had only been looking at drawings in comic books and then suddenly I realized that hundreds of museums of the finest art ever created exists out there.

I still maintain a broad array of musical tastes. I can't say that I like everything. Rap is certainly out of the question. Still, beyond the realm of classical music I still enjoy jazz, some rock/pop, and real country/bluegrass (and not that pop with a southern accent crap) and various examples of folk music from around the world. Your analogy with visual art is quite interesting... and as a visual artist I might pick it up and suggest that while nothing will compete with Michelangelo, Titian, Rembrandt, and Rubens there are works of art from non-Western cultures which seem almost crude... untutored by the standards of Western art... as well as certain products of folk artists or outsider artists that have a certain raw spark that is lacking in a lot of what we define as "high art". Certainly many of the best artists were clearly inspired by the work of the untrained artist, the visionary artist, the art or children, etc... (Picasso, Klee, Dubuffet, Miro, etc...) I don't doubt that the great composers equally have drawn inspiration from "simpler" folk music. While nothing will eclipse Bach for me, I can't imagine not letting loose with some Louvin Brothers, Rolling Stones, or Miles Davis from time to time.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I like jazz, which covers a wide spectrum of styles within itself. I'm particularly fond of 20s jazz, like that of Louis Armstrong as a young man, and Bix Beiderbecke. One can't go wrong with acquiring a complete set of Armstrong's "Hot Fives and Sevens." It should be an indelible part of anyone's jazz collection. And then I like some of Herbie Hancock's music from the 60s.

Certainly _The Hot Fives and Sevens_ constitutes an essential part of any jazz collection... any collection of 20th century music... or any collection of American music. I also love the _Loius Armstrong Plays W.C. Handy_ recording. It gives you some idea of what Armstrong's band might have sounded like in the 20s had the recording technology been better. I must admit, however, that I lean far more toward Ellington and bop (late 40s-early 60s): Miles, Monk, Coletrane, Lennie Tristano, etc...


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## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

What Topaz wrote here is SO true. If great music means so much to a person it matters as much when in a relationship. To love a thing with passion and not be able to share it with a partner is a risky combination.


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## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

robert newman said:


> What Topaz wrote here is SO true. If great music means so much to a person it matters as much when in a relationship. To love a thing with passion and not be able to share it with a partner is a risky combination.


Robert,

I don't necessarily agree with you and Topaz in this case.

Although I mainly listen to classical, my girlfriend listens to a variety of music. She does like classical, but is more of a hip-hop, pop, and blues fan.

I think you and your significant other can have different tastes in music and it not have an effect on the relationship, just as the same is true with having different interests/hobbies.


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## Topaz (Oct 25, 2006)

ChamberNut said:


> Robert,
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with you and Topaz in this case.
> 
> ...


The point I was making, slightly tongue in cheek I admit, is that if there is a big change in musical tastes *after* the event (knotted, wed, hooked up, spliced) it could be awkward. You can possibly imagine two head-bangers getting spliced, and having a huge fall out if one day Mrs Head-banger decides she's now into Gregorian chants, and Charles Head-banger now fancies Rap. Just think of the scene: rows galore, ketchup up the walls, suitcases being packed. Doesn't bear thinking of. Terrible scenes.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Topaz said:


> The point I was making, slightly tongue in cheek I admit, is that if there is a big change in musical tastes *after* the event (knotted, wed, hooked up, spliced) it could be awkward. You can possibly imagine two head-bangers getting spliced, and having a huge fall out if one day Mrs Head-banger decides she's now into Gregorian chants, and Charles Head-banger now fancies Rap. Just think of the scene: rows galore, ketchup up the walls, suitcases being packed. Doesn't bear thinking of. Terrible scenes.


Headphones for the couple. 

After embracing classical music, knowing it's variety, it's complexity and most of all, the inmense number of works and composers to be discovered out there; I don't think I'm moving to any other genre.* Today I discovered*: Michel Camilo, his piano concerto. A fancy crossover work in classical form, with mixed jazz concepts.

*What piece of classical music have you discovered recently?*


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## oisfetz (Dec 11, 2006)

Edward Franck's string quintets. Romantic, very well written and lovely works by an unjustly forgotten composer. A mail friend has promise to send me the SQs. and the v.c.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Manuel said:


> *What piece of classical music have you discovered recently?*


Not really a work but a disc:

Franck: piano works by Paul Crossley.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2007)

Edward Elgar said:


> Don't you find that you are willing to sample every type of music, whereas those with a passion for rock or R&B wouldn't even consider listening to a classical peice? It just goes to show which denomination have the most open minds!


I am a classical man first but also like and did play jazz years ago, I like folk music in general, even blue grass country, do I have the right title?. The only music that makes me leave the room is Rock I just cant stand the outlandish chords played a full volume, and Country and Western which I find monotonous. 
Two of our classical music group like rock they are in the 40 48 age group
Two like jazz the are in the 65-70 age group, so age could have a bearing on this. 
luckily for me my Wife has the same tastes as I do .


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## robert newman (Oct 4, 2006)

I once heard of a man in South Africa who loved vinyl recordings of classical music to the point where he would spent huge amounts on valve amplifiers, gold plated speaker cables, cartridges for needles, turntables, and so on. In his quest for musical perfection he compiled a big list of his favourite recordings. The fact that his girlfriend packed her suitcase and left had the impact of him buying a very expensive set of headphones, but not much else !

I do not think anyone can judge another unmarried person if they are so serious in their love of music. But it clearly matters that these issues are known and tolerated by both parties. 

I suppose he is still listening to his music today using headphones. When I tried to find out why he had not used headphones at the time his girlfriend was staying with him he replied that it would have been selfish to have used them at that time. 

It takes all sorts to make a world, for sure !


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## Azathoth (Feb 28, 2007)

For every diehard rock fan that won't touch anything made before 1960 or so, there's a classical fan who won't look at anything with an electric guitar in it, except maybe Schnittke.

I think that there might be a little more openness, though. If only because most people are raised with rock music, rock music is what's on the street, on the radio, in everyone's walkman and mp3 player. So if you're going to get in to classical music, you really have to start with an open mind and look beyond what's most readily available.

Some genres speak more to certain people, and it's very possible that you've just tried with the wrong classical music for someone. If I knew someone who was a major metalhead, only listened to hard metal and stuff like that, trying to get him in to classical with the Brandenburgs would be pretty stupid. I'd probably start him off with some nice thundery Beethoven, and then Liszt's _Totentanz_, stuff like that.

There are the same few personality types that will compose. Beethoven could very well have gone in to metal, Bach in to jazz, had those genres existed during their times.

People in general can be a little snobby about what they like. We hear the brilliance of Bach's B Minor Mass because we're in to that kind of thing, on top of that, we don't need your stupid teenaged guitar crap.

Conversely, a chunk of my friends hear the brilliance of Modest Mouse because they're in to that kind of thing, and on top of that, they don't need our stupid old people with violins crap.

People also usually try to get someone enthused about classical music with all the boring stuff. I like the stuff already, and _I_ can barely stand to hear _Eine Kleine Nachtmusik_ or _Fur Elise_ or _Spring_ without twitching.

I just appreciate musicianship and passion; but the standards of musicianship vary. I don't mean in the sense that one is good and one is bad, but the skills required to write a good rock song are different from the ones required to write a good piano sonata.

Two recent examples of genius I heard:

Presto from Beethoven's _Moonlight_
The line, "We kiss on the mouth but still cough down our sleeves" from Modest Mouse's _Dramamine_

Different forms of genius, but genius nonetheless.

To put it differently, using people we all know:

Who was smarter and more important? Euclid or Einstein?


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## MrJiveBoJingles (Sep 19, 2007)

Edward Elgar said:


> Don't you find that you are willing to sample every type of music, whereas those with a passion for rock or R&B wouldn't even consider listening to a classical peice? It just goes to show which denomination have the most open minds!


I don't have any friends who share my passion for classical music, although some of them can appreciate it in an abstract, rather unemotional sense (not enough to seek out performances of it or buy recordings) as a complex and rich art form. I do know some people who listen to other stuff and have really narrow tastes, though.

Like many people I grew up with the usual rock and pop standards from the '80s and '90s, occasionally venturing into "classic rock" as well. Classical music bored me. Eventually I got into electronic music as well, but I didn't pay any attention to classical until I took a course on it in college. It really blew me away. The realization that there were hundreds of years of great pieces of music and musical history of which I was totally ignorant, and that so many of those "old and dusty" works really were worth checking out, was astounding.

I still listen to other types of music, but not nearly as often as I used to. I'm still pretty big on electronic music because of the way it can be used to create new timbres and effects, and I like exploring sound synthesis and I want to write some of my own stuff in that vein. But now that I've gotten into classical music in the past few years, the biggest part of my musical (self-)education is going to be studying the beautiful works of all those "old" guys, and the principles they used to write them.



I think what distinguishes classical from a lot of other types of music is that it's hard to really "get into it" if you don't pay close attention. Bombast and "obviousness" seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And that's probably why it's relatively unpopular now. People want something simple and pleasant that they can turn on while they're doing something else, or something very repetitive to relax them, or something to overload their senses and block out thought while they're drunk / high / whatever, rather than music that can involve a mental "struggle" and invite a shifting of musical perspective.


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

*Manuel is care to announce what follows is the response to an quote that has been removed of its content*



MrJiveBoJingles said:


> Bombast and "obviousness" seem to be the exception rather than the rule.


No. They are not.






and there's more out there in the same venue.


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## MrJiveBoJingles (Sep 19, 2007)

Manuel said:


>


Wow, he's really flailing away.


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I also, have very few friends who listen to classical music. Classical music is becoming more of a music subculture. Most people hear it on movies, or on television ..(or cartoons...remember hearing such pieces as _William Tell, Tales from the Vienna Woods, Blue Danube _ and _Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2_ on all the Bugs Bunny cartoons as a kid?), but as far as listening to it casually, it is far, far more uncommon.


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## MrJiveBoJingles (Sep 19, 2007)

Yeah, the only classical music exposure I remember having as a kid was through cartoons, whether Warner Bros. or Disney (Fantasia). And there were certain classical pieces used ad nauseam in movies to accompany portrayals of "high society" (Nachtmusik, Four Seasons...).


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Would the good folks Disney put their beloved early animation to anything other than classical music!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Azathoth said:


> There are the same few personality types that will compose. Beethoven could very well have gone in to metal, Bach in to jazz, had those genres existed during their times.


Or...maybe both would have gone into classical music still. After all it still exists and has an even larger history than when they were around and scores are much more available of music and obviously there are recordings as well.

As for trying to listen to different types of music...it isn't easy, it takes time and effort. Maybe alot of people just don't have enough of that to dedicate themselves to exploring music to a great degree.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

I listen to just about every genre of music, though recently classical music has been taking up a larger proportion of my listening time.



Azathoth said:


> People also usually try to get someone enthused about classical music with all the boring stuff. I like the stuff already, and _I_ can barely stand to hear _Eine Kleine Nachtmusik_ or _Fur Elise_ or _Spring_ without twitching.


Haha, I can't help but to agree. I'm even a huge fan of Mozart and Eine Kleine Nachtmusik puts me to sleep.


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## Mr Dull (Mar 14, 2009)

I am with Elgar on this one I will listen to anything and often find things I like. While there are genres I don't like much (country and western, jazz) I will still listen and have some I like. I currently have twenty five genres listed on itunes and I listen to them all even though my main interest is classical.
It is a shame to limit yourself to only one type of music when there is so much out there you might enjoy if only you let yourself. 
Only horses should wear blinkers.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Im afraid its the opposite for me,
used to be big into metal, at that time I experimented with classical and some electronic things like Ambient and was generally open to anything but had high standards.

Then I drifted away from metal and was absorbed fully into classical, I have a near zero tolerance for popular music (in the broader sense of the word)


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

emiellucifuge said:


> I have a near zero tolerance for popular music (in the broader sense of the word)


After experiencing underground metal, and select ambient like Tangerine Dream, it was clear which direction music went: either a greater degree of organization, or a lame attempt to produce "brilliant parts" in an unexceptional whole.

From that I accelerated what had been an interest for many years -- classical music.

I never liked rock or mainstream metal; now, I further detest rock and its idiot cousin, jazz. I'm more tolerant of folk and country & western because at least they're legitimate genres and not marketing gimmicks, but I don't want to listen to them. Hip-hop is just retarded.

So at this point, I'm a mostly classical listener who likes underground metal as well. Of course, with stability comes the ability to listen to such music without having to resort to nastiness, pomposity and other traits of the undersuccessful that I see around here.


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

Edward Elgar said:


> Don't you find that you are willing to sample every type of music, whereas those with a passion for rock or R&B wouldn't even consider listening to a classical peice? It just goes to show which denomination have the most open minds!


No, I don't, but I used to be that way.

I detest rock, jazz, rap, techno, all modern things.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

but you like contemporary metal and classical, Conservationist.


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

Bach said:


> but you like contemporary metal and classical, Conservationist.


True! But those that have ancient spirit and artistic vision, only. And "Skies of America" by Ornette Coleman, but he was wanting to write a symphony at that point (I wish he would just switch to writing symphonies, he was always too orderly for jazz, rock or fusion!).


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Of all Jazz, (which you're constantly criticising for a lack of organisation) - I'm surprised you like Skies of America..


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