# The vocal music problem



## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

What 'problem'? When you want to hear a new work for voice but there's no translation of the text in English. What do you do then? This is a problem for recent works or even more obscure works. I can't listen to them because of this.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

I also very much appreciate when there are subs in a video. I can and do appreciate vocal music on an entirely musical level, but I prefer when I know what they're saying. Especially in opera.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

A lot of companies now want you to download translations so they can save money on packaging.

The biggest culprit is of course, Apple Computer-imagine having to download a huge instruction manual for a new iMac?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I would add I need the text even if sung in English, however I don't usually get interested in words until long after the music grabs me. This holds true for non-classical as well. Opera may be the exception wherein I think the plot has at least equal importance.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> What 'problem'? When you want to hear a new work for voice but there's no translation of the text in English. What do you do then? This is a problem for recent works or even more obscure works. I can't listen to them because of this.


Google Translate.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

mstar said:


> Google Translate.


Can it be more simple then this answer?:tiphat:
(This is a compliment)


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

mstar said:


> Google Translate.


But the OP is talking about _listening_. How to understand what's being sung on an audio or video track in the absence of written text.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I dunno. If it's vocal and the music alone doesn't make you want to listen, why bother with finding out the lyrics? Works for me, and I love opera. Life's too short to listen to music you don't like just because there might be some "added meaning" from the words that could tip from not enjoying the music to enjoying it

Of course, I understand your desire to know what's going on, but vocal music is music first and foremost - otherwise you'd just read it!


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

I find people who simply "listen" to vocal music quite confounding. How can you possibly listen to something you don't understand? Such connection is meaningless.

Also Google Translate is horrendous so that doesn't work.

Seems like I have to man up and just pretend to understand.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

This is basically the reason I've never been able to get into Italian opera.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> What 'problem'? When you want to hear a new work for voice but there's no translation of the text in English. What do you do then? This is a problem for recent works or even more obscure works. I can't listen to them because of this.


One thing to try is old programmes of performances, that worked for me for Berio's Outis. I'm still struggling for Birtwistle's Mask of Orpheus, Holliger's Scardanelli Zyklus, Ferneyhough's Transit and Henri Pousseur's Dichterliebersreigentraum.


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## PenaColada (Jul 30, 2015)

Honestly, I can never understand what the vocalists are saying, I just appreciate vocal music if it sounds good.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

dgee said:


> . If it's vocal and the music alone doesn't make you want to listen, why bother with finding out the lyrics?


Because the words inspired the composer.

A good example is the mass. If you don't know what the parts mean, then you're going to miss the point of a lot of great mass settings.

Another thing is irony. Sometimes composers use music to add ironic commentary on words, and it's pearls before swine if you don't know what it's about.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

There is also the possibility of learning the language in question. Not completely, but just enough to help you understand some vocal works. Perhaps you gravitate towards a certain language in music, because you like the musical tradition of that area? Start learning that one.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I was definitely being flippant, but I don't think understanding the word setting will convert me to music I don't like. It's the icing on the cake to music that draws me in


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

It is always nice to understand the vocal parts, and so that is why I like to learn operas on DVD with subtitles, then later can enjoy them more on CD. But when you consider the human voice as a musical instrument, it can be enjoyed purely for the sounds without knowing the meaning.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> But the OP is talking about _listening_. How to understand what's being sung on an audio or video track in the absence of written text.


I first had this problem with Mozart's Requiem a few years back. I read over the lyrics, looked for the roots, and treated it like a poem or song. Eventually, I could understand what was being said throughout most of it - it took much less than a month and not a lot of effort.

But this also depends on your linguistic background. I speak two almost completely unrelated languages with different alphabets, sounds, etc., so I guess my mind just treated it like another language study.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

For me understanding the text/libretti in vocal music is absolutely essential. The metaphorical dimension of music with vocal semantics takes things to a whole new and higher aesthetic level. No question.

I mean really - can any one listen to and even hope to appreciate Wagners Ring Cycle without an understanding of the Libretti? I think not. I would contend that the same applies to any opera, oratorio, passion, cantata, etc.

And yes, Recording Companies ignorance/neglect of this is outrageous, not the mention extremely frustrating. I recently bought a box set (Decca) of Mozarts complete Operas - minus libretti. For some of his earlier operas accessing these libretti (in translation)is well nigh impossible. 

Vocal music without the text is only half the story - simple as that.


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