# Greatest Piece(s) of Renaissance Music



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

My latest craze is in Renaissance music. i revisited some old pieces, and found them to connect a lot more than before. What would be the piece you think is the Greatest (ie. your favourite )?

You can say I'm going through a Renaissance in Renaissance music.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is mine.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for creating a thread about Renaissance music 

I've been recently attracted to this period, and *Josquin Desprez* is my most favorite Renaissance composer (and probably my top 3 composers ). I heard a couple of professional classical musicians called in the greatest composer in the history of Western music. Now digging deep into his "canonical" outputs, I can sort of see why he is so beloved.

This *Qui habitat* is a miracle:





His magnum opus is *Missa Pange lingua*. There are many beautiful moments, but the most glorious one is perhaps the _et incarnatus est_ from the Credo, which anticipated the shift from polyphony to homophony:






This famous *Stabat Mater*:






*Abasalon, fili mi* (authorship is being debated):






*Miserere mei Deus*. Check out the section from 12:10!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Wow. I listened to the first 3 so far. I always liked Monteverdi's Vespers, and wanted to find more of the like, but didn't like his Madrigals too much. I never liked the masses of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Berlioz and Brahms too much, and was trying to find something suiting my ideals, and I think this is it. They flow so naturally, and don't sound as willful or manufactured.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Wow. I listened to the first 3 so far. I always liked Monteverdi's Vespers, and wanted to find more of the like, but didn't like his Madrigals too much. I never liked the masses of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Berlioz and Brahms too much, and was trying to find something suiting my ideals, and I think this is it. *They flow so naturally, and don't sound as willful or manufactured.*


Phil, by "they" do you mean the first 3 pieces of Josquin I posted above? If yes, then you are spot on! There is something very special about Josquin that distinguishes him from the other (very great) composers of his time like Ockeghem, Obrecht and Pierre de la Rue, and even of the next generation (Palestrina, Victoria, Lassus etc).

To me, Josquin makes music flow effortlessly as a form of natural speech (one can also think of Mozart at his best), even though his music is very complex and sophisticated.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

silentio said:


> Phil, by "they" do you mean the first 3 pieces of Josquin I posted above? If yes, then you are spot on! There is something very special about Josquin that distinguishes him from the other (very great) composers of his time like Ockeghem, Obrecht and Pierre de la Rue, and even of the next generation (Palestrina, Victoria, Lassus etc).
> 
> To me, Josquin makes music flow effortlessly as a form of natural speech (one can also think of Mozart at his best), even though his music is very complex and sophisticated.


Yeah, but also of the music of the period in general. And you're right Josquin music is complex and sophisticated, and sounds ahead of its time. I used to dismiss the music of this period as being primitive like Gregorian Chant.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yeah, but also of the music of the period in general. And you're right Josquin music is complex and sophisticated, and sounds ahead of its time.* I used to dismiss the music of this period as being primitive like Gregorian Chant*.


I was under the same assumption, until I picked up a playlist on Spotify that plays Josquin, Dufay, Byrd and Tallis . They certainly were not. Even "still" in the Middle Ages, the like of Machaut and Dufay already composed some complex and advanced music:











Regarding Josquin, I am no expert, but I read that his occasional use of homophony is ahead of his time, and points towards early Baroque.

Now, speaking of being ahead, another figure that may interest you is the _sui generis_ Carlo Gesualdo, whose chromaticism is astonishing. His music sounds nothing like that of his contemporaries. The late Stravinsky was very proud of himself "re-discovering" Gesualdo and fervently promoted his music. Some said that Gesualdo was three centuries ahead of his era (though I know some scholars will argue against this point, that Gesualdo idiosyncrasy was the musical response to the Mannerism style of El greco and Tintoretto)

To get a taste of his style:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Funny thing Is I heard of Gesualdo as a murderer and his dark history before I heard his music. Usually for me it's the other way around.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

One of my many favorites of the late renaissance


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

Tallis' Spem in alium is my absolute favorite renaissance work.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

One of my favorite pieces is William Byrd's Ave Verum. He starts with everybody together, then at "O dulcis," he breaks into polyphony, but not like Josquin; he staggers the entrances. The ensemble breaks up into individual pleas for mercy.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> Tallis' Spem in alium is my absolute favorite renaissance work.


Listened to that earlier yesterday. Magnificent.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Don't forget the instrumental dance music of the time. Susato's "Danserye" collection is a favorite:


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Or if you want to take some Henry VIII and rock it up a bit.......


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Back in this day, Josquin Des Prez (1450 - 1541) and Claudio Monteverdi (1567 - 1643) get most of my attention. I have no greatest hits in mind. :tiphat:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Olias said:


> Or if you want to take some Henry VIII and rock it up a bit.......


Is that the HIP version?


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

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Phil loves classical said:


> Wow. I listened to the first 3 so far. I always liked Monteverdi's Vespers, and wanted to find more of the like, but didn't like his Madrigals too much.* I never liked the masses of Bach*, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Berlioz and Brahms too much, and was trying to find something suiting my ideals, and I think this is it. They flow so naturally, and don't sound as willful or manufactured.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Phil loves classical said:


> Is that the HIP version?




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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Tallis' Lamentations is great, which I'm listening to at the moment


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Monteverdi, Vespers of 1610
Palestrina, Missa Papae Marcelli
Josquin, Missa Pange Lingua
Tallis, Spem in alium
Byrd, Mass for 5 voices 
Dufay, Missa l’homme arme
Ockeghem, Requiem
Dowland, Lachrimae
Victoria, Officium Defunctorum
Lassus, Psalmi Davidis
Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Tallis, Spem in alium


I remember a misprint in the _Radio Times_ decades ago, where that was listed as "Spam in allium" - i.e. Spam in garlic.


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