# Symphony No.1 (pending photos)



## JamieHoldham

My first symphony, I have gone through quite a significant amount of sketches with a lot of different ideas for this so its going to be a long time until I finish this composition, it is going to be 2 movements rather than the traditional 4, 1st; Andante and 2nd; ethier Allegro, or Molto Allegro.

Will add photos as soon as possible!


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## dzc4627

I am also planning a first symphony, although it will not be done for months if not a couple years. I have only conceived the beginning of the first movement among other details and concepts. Good luck fellow symphonist!


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## JamieHoldham

dzc4627 said:


> I am also planning a first symphony, although it will not be done for months if not a couple years. I have only conceived the beginning of the first movement among other details and concepts. Good luck fellow symphonist!


Thanks, and good luck to you too, a symphony definitely isn't something that should be rushed, and I plan to take my time


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## Xenakiboy

I am also planning to compose an official symphony symphony cycle (I'm ambitious, I won't tell how many though) at some point but I think chamber music is more of a focus for me. I'm looking forward to seeing what you'll so in the symphonic genre!  I'm looking forward to those previews!! :tiphat:


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> My first symphony, I have gone through quite a significant amount of sketches with a lot of different ideas for this so its going to be a long time until I finish this composition, it is going to be 2 movements rather than the traditional 4, 1st; Andante and 2nd; ethier Allegro, or Molto Allegro.
> 
> Will add photos as soon as possible!


Cant wait Jamie, don't post all in one then we get snowed under .


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## JamieHoldham

Pugg said:


> Cant wait Jamie, don't post all in one then we get snowed under .


True true, I have so much stuff it wouldnt be filling just the forum, but also my room as well :lol:


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## JamieHoldham

The first photos of my Symphony No.1, keep in mind this is the 6th to 10th version and I may end up starting over again :/


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> The first photos of my Symphony No.1, keep in mind this is the 6th to 10th version and I may end up starting over again :/
> 
> View attachment 87145
> 
> View attachment 87146
> 
> View attachment 87147


Looks impressive, don't hurry, we have all the time in the world.


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## JamieHoldham

Pugg said:


> Looks impressive, don't hurry, we have all the time in the world.


I agree with your sentiment but I personally dont think I have the time, I have also started the symphony again so ignore those first 3 images, I have fallen back to the idea for what was meant to be my 3rd symphony, a pastoral symphony with movements based on a normal happy day, the storm, the immediant destruction afterwards and for the final movement when the sun comes out and the storm fades away.

This will probally be the last and final attempt at making this Symphony; I wont be starting over again. I need to compose as much as I can at this point in my life with what knowledge I have gained thus far. Will update soon.


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## Davila

I'm not talented enough to write one myself, but I wish all of you the best of luck in your journey, and I hope to hear them someday!


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## JamieHoldham

Davila said:


> I'm not talented enough to write one myself, but I wish all of you the best of luck in your journey, and I hope to hear them someday!


Thanks, my perfectonism drives me nuts sometimes but in the end it's good that I am cycling through so many sketches and bad ideas to make the best possible end result as I can


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## JamieHoldham

Forget everything I previously said about only working on a single idea for the Symphony, had to start again.. might upload photos of it soon if I dont immediantly dispose of it.


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> Forget everything I previously said about only working on a single idea for the Symphony, had to start again.. might upload photos of it soon if I dont immediantly dispose of it.


You know how to keep my attention.


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## JamieHoldham

Just a pre-update, I will upload photos tommorow of what I have done so far for my next attempt at making this Symphony, I am fairly confident this will be the last one (no guarantees though!), anyone looking forward to seeing the manuscript will be in for a treat.. it is turning out to be quite Grand... nothing else can explain it. Not perfect of course but no one is.


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## Xenakiboy

JamieHoldham said:


> Just a pre-update, I will upload photos tommorow of what I have done so far for my next attempt at making this Symphony, I am fairly confident this will be the last one (no guarantees though!), anyone looking forward to seeing the manuscript will be in for a treat.. it is turning out to be quite Grand... nothing else can explain it. Not perfect of course but no one is.


I'm looking forward to hearing it man! I commend you for attempting such a thing at this point. :cheers:


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> Just a pre-update, I will upload photos tommorow of what I have done so far for my next attempt at making this Symphony, I am fairly confident this will be the last one (no guarantees though!), anyone looking forward to seeing the manuscript will be in for a treat.. it is turning out to be quite Grand... nothing else can explain it. Not perfect of course but no one is.


Take all the time in the world, as I said going nowhere.


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## JamieHoldham

Attempt No.?

Pages 1-5.


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 6-7 with a unfinished 8.


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## Pugg

It's it still alright f I make a print of these Jamie?


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## JamieHoldham

Pugg said:


> It's it still alright f I make a print of these Jamie?


Of course  Feel free


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## Xenakiboy

It looks nice, how long do you envision it being?


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## JamieHoldham

Xenakiboy said:


> It looks nice, how long do you envision it being?


As long as I stay alive long enough to see it finished, I originally was going to go for a 2 movement Symphony, breaking away from tradition just as it's a test; my first symphony, afterwards for my 2nd then 3rd maybe 4th I can increase in length and complexity.

Overall in actual length I reckon it will be atleast 10-30 miniutes long.


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## Xenakiboy

JamieHoldham said:


> As long as I stay alive long enough to see it finished, I originally was going to go for a 2 movement Symphony, breaking away from tradition just as it's a test; my first symphony, afterwards for my 2nd then 3rd maybe 4th I can increase in length and complexity.
> 
> Overall in actual length I reckon it will be atleast 10-30 miniutes long.


I'm genuinely looking forward to hearing this man!
As a composer myself (as I've stated many times before) I encourage and applaud your ambition. A productive composer, always learning more and pushing themselves to create things that are far more than what people would expect of them gains my respect. It also reminds me of different ways I push myself way out of my comfort zone.
As long as it is something you feel the artistic need to do, do it! 
Keep it up man!


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## JamieHoldham

Xenakiboy said:


> I'm genuinely looking forward to hearing this man!
> As a composer myself (as I've stated many times before) I encourage and applaud your ambition. A productive composer, always learning more and pushing themselves to create things that are far more than what people would expect of them gains my respect. It also reminds me of different ways I push myself way out of my comfort zone.
> As long as it is something you feel the artistic need to do, do it!
> Keep it up man!


Thanks for the encouragement, pushing myself and making very large and grand pieces is one of my goals, on top of all the small chamber and solo pieces, discovering not just music theory rules I dont understand yet or mastering them, but exploring the unknown, bending the rules, inventing and being original.

If I wasnt in such a dire situation right now I feel like I could have accomplished so much, maybe I still can, time will tell..


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## Xenakiboy

JamieHoldham said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, pushing myself and making very large and grand pieces is one of my goals, on top of all the small chamber and solo pieces, discovering not just music theory rules I dont understand yet or mastering them, but exploring the unknown, bending the rules, inventing and being original.
> 
> If I wasnt in such a dire situation right now I feel like I could have accomplished so much, maybe I still can, time will tell..


When you start finishing (dare I say) some of these larger works, make sure you put them on YouTube and Soundcloud, I'll definitely be subscribing and sharing them! 
I honestly wish you the best man! :cheers:


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## JamieHoldham

Xenakiboy said:


> When you start finishing (dare I say) some of these larger works, make sure you put them on YouTube and Soundcloud, I'll definitely be subscribing and sharing them!
> I honestly wish you the best man! :cheers:


If these works turn out to be as large as I envision them, it would be quite a large effort to get it all into a notation programme, also I would need a good soundfont for it to be worth the effort, might take a while to find a good enough one though for orchestra.


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## Xenakiboy

JamieHoldham said:


> If these works turn out to be as large as I envision them, it would be quite a large effort to get it all into a notation programme, also I would need a good soundfont for it to be worth the effort, might take a while to find a good enough one though for orchestra.


Midi and soundfonts are a test of patience! I operate as both a paper/piano and a notation software composer, so I understand quite a bit about the frustrations of both. I guess it's something we have to take advantage of, rather than let it take an on us :lol:

Ps. If it gets too much to imput, there are always copyists!


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## EdwardBast

JamieHoldham said:


> If these works turn out to be as large as I envision them, it would be quite a large effort to get it all into a notation programme, also I would need a good soundfont for it to be worth the effort, might take a while to find a good enough one though for orchestra.


No. It would be easy. What you have posted as the beginning of your first symphony should take about an hour to put into a notation program, if that. There is so much duplication of texture and rhythms shared among parts that much of it would be cutting and pasting. And the advantages of being able to transpose and manipulate the notes after they are entered would be well-worth the effort no matter how bad the sound samples. In any case you have already posted things using notation software and should be able to do it again.


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## Andrei

OK here's my thoughts, but first to put them in context. I am in my 50s, lawyer, tutored on piano but would never embarrass myself in public, do understand LvBs late quartets. 
First, if you wish to make an artistic statement, you MUST have something to say. "Writer's block" is nothing more than having nothing to say. Second, take a stand. In my humble opinion you should (as contract bridge players say: "take a view"). You can either "do a Walton" and produce a meaningful statement out of the gate. Or "do a Prokofiev" and produce a smaller scale gem? and your magnum opus can follow later.


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## JamieHoldham

Andrei said:


> OK here's my thoughts, but first to put them in context. I am in my 50s, lawyer, tutored on piano but would never embarrass myself in public, do understand LvBs late quartets.
> First, if you wish to make an artistic statement, you MUST have something to say. "Writer's block" is nothing more than having nothing to say. Second, take a stand. In my humble opinion you should (as contract bridge players say: "take a view"). You can either "do a Walton" and produce a meaningful statement out of the gate. Or "do a Prokofiev" and produce a smaller scale gem? and your magnum opus can follow later.


I would agree to focus on a Magnus Opus as you call it later on, but I'm really not sure I will live to that point, thats why I am putting all of my effort and resources into making large and complex works as soon as I can. Although I have experienced writers block once or twice, I definitely dont have it right now.


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> I would agree to focus on a Magnus Opus as you call it later on, but I'm really not sure I will live to that point, that's why I am putting all of my effort and resources into making large and complex works as soon as I can. Although I have experienced writers block once or twice, I definitely don't have it right now.


All in your own time Jamie.


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## JamieHoldham

Sorry for people looking forward to seeing this damned symphony finished if anyone is, I started again since my previous attempt, the first adante into the allegro was too rushed and there wasn't no were near enough development of the sonata exposition so I started again, this time a longer exposition, dont rush into the Allegro development section, and for the exposition I am using a theme again instead of a larger more vague structure with multiple instruments, and I will develop significantly more, BEFORE I go to the Allegro / Vivace development section. Afterwards I can just continue on developing for as long as I want and occansionly add the theme in again in ethier different keys or by modifying it, or both. Going to make this symphony a actual symphony that Schubert taught me from listening repeatedly to his unfinished 8th and his grand 9th. To utilise all instruments together or with much more polyphony, i.e simply to have more going on at once. Expect this attempt to be alot better than my previous.


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## JamieHoldham

Finally uploaded page 1 of whichever attempt this is - kept getting errors..


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## JamieHoldham

Done more pages but the upload button seems to be broken sadly, error after error. Will try again later


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## JamieHoldham

Page 2;


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## JamieHoldham

I would edit a previous comment but I cant: just want to say that whilst the upload button had a sort of 50/50 chance of working yesterday it now doesnt work at all, posted about it in the help section of the forum but no replys so wont be able to upload any more updates on any of my works, of which I have a extra 2 nearly 3 pages of my Symphony done.


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> I would edit a previous comment but I cant: just want to say that whilst the upload button had a sort of 50/50 chance of working yesterday it now doesnt work at all, posted about it in the help section of the forum but no replys so wont be able to upload any more updates on any of my works, of which I have a extra 2 nearly 3 pages of my Symphony done.


Do use Postimage.org, they are great, you can make them as big as like I did for you in another post.


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## JamieHoldham

Pugg said:


> Do use Postimage.org, they are great, you can make them as big as like I did for you in another post.


I tried but seems I cant even upload photos to there ethier, not sure whats going on :/ Will try taking another photo maybe..


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> Page 2;
> 
> View attachment 87986


Look Jamie:


_Just upload it ....._


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## JamieHoldham

Dont know why just I am having trouble then, doesnt make sense :S


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## JamieHoldham

Page 3;









Wow, well resizing it actually works, annoying but it'll have to do! Done even more pages but getting some sleep before I upload the rest


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> Page 3;
> 
> View attachment 88066
> 
> 
> Wow, well resizing it actually works, annoying but it'll have to do! Done even more pages but getting some sleep before I upload the rest


It's still small Jamie.


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## JamieHoldham

Pugg said:


> It's still small Jamie.


It has to be sadly for me to upload it


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> It has to be sadly for me to upload it


Go and sleep first, P.M when you are awake, I will help you.


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## JamieHoldham

Page 4; testing new image upload method


image hosting over 2mb


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 5 & 6;


image upload free


how to screen capture


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## Pugg

So it worked, you see, _you can_ do it!


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 7 & 8; the start of the true exposition and change to Allegro tempo:


free image host

uploading images


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## JamieHoldham

Page 9: end of the 1st movement exposition, and the actual movement itself, going to do something I don't think has ever been done before in a Symphony.. wont spoil it until I finish it.


image hosting 20mb


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## Pugg

You know how to keep us in suspense....


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 10-14, start of movement "2"! in sonata form with entirely new material;


upload image online

images hosting

post img

photo uploading


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 1-14 of the next attempt of my Grand Symphony, so far this is only a small part of what I have completed just for the introduction, not to mention the exposition hasn't even started yet, reason being is because I am using and expanding the Sonata form in ways which have never been done before, not to mention I am planning the scale of this symphony to be twice as long as any other symphony that has ever been created before, of which Mahler's 3rd is the current longest at a 90 - 1 hour 5 min performance time. Therefore I am trying to get it to run approximately 2 hours total.


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## JamieHoldham




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## JamieHoldham




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## JamieHoldham

Will continue updating as I go along.


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## maestro267

Havergal Brian's "Gothic" is c. 110 minutes long, and Kaikhosru Sorabji wrote a symphony ("Jami") that lasts 4½ hours... :devil:


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## ST4

Can someone typeset this? I'm still really interested to hear it. Your ambition may have exceeded what I'm willing to attempt at this point! :lol:

I admire what you're doing Jamie, keep going!


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## Pugg

I admire what you're doing Jamie, keep going.


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 15-17, end of the introduction.























Need to think and plan ahead for the exposition which is starting, and how I am going to develop the rest of the sonata form this Symphony is taking, since I will be doing it differently. Might not compose / do sketches for a while.


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## JamieHoldham

maestro267 said:


> Havergal Brian's "Gothic" is c. 110 minutes long, and Kaikhosru Sorabji wrote a symphony ("Jami") that lasts 4½ hours... :devil:


Heh, well I will be composing a symphony that is longer than standard repitore ( Mahler's 3rd being the longest ) rather than making a impractical effort to make a 3-10 hour symphony which isn't realistic, nethier to perform or compose.


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## JamieHoldham

Pages 18 - 21, start of the exposition as of now, although I am thinking of possibly redoing it, will see later.


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## JamieHoldham

Restarted my Symphony No.1, it's a large work but not as large as some of my other projects that I feel I can compose some relativley decent ideas in a short time (which is all I feel I have).

Will start again as it's been a long time, and I will base this Symphony only loosely of what a "symphony" is, again trying to revolutionise and push music forward, I will be writing the symphony in the style of Richard Wagners' Overtures - just as he wanted to do near the end of his life, he wanted to stop composing Operas and go back to Symphonys.

A quote from his Wikipedia page:

"After completing Parsifal, Wagner expressed his intention to turn to the writing of symphonies, and several sketches dating from the late 1870s and early 1880s have been identified as work towards this end."

I may upload images here if I may decent progress and am able to.


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## JeffD

I find it enough of a challenge to write a simple melody that holds my interest. There is genius in just doing that.


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## Bettina

JamieHoldham said:


> Restarted my Symphony No.1, it's a large work but not as large as some of my other projects that I feel I can compose some relativley decent ideas in a short time (which is all I feel I have).
> 
> Will start again as it's been a long time, and I will base this Symphony only loosely of what a "symphony" is, again trying to revolutionise and push music forward, I will be writing the symphony in the style of Richard Wagners' Overtures - just as he wanted to do near the end of his life, he wanted to stop composing Operas and go back to Symphonys.
> 
> A quote from his Wikipedia page:
> 
> "After completing Parsifal, Wagner expressed his intention to turn to the writing of symphonies, and several sketches dating from the late 1870s and early 1880s have been identified as work towards this end."
> 
> I may upload images here if I may decent progress and am able to.


Good luck with your continuation of Symphony No.1, and I hope that you do decide to upload some images. I'm also looking forward to hearing more of your opera-in-progress. Your ideas about delayed resolution are quite interesting!


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## Vox Gabrieli

JamieHoldham said:


> Thanks, my perfectonism drives me nuts sometimes but in the end it's good that I am cycling through so many sketches and bad ideas to make the best possible end result as I can


If you're such a perfectionist, why can't you draw a straight damn line!


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## Bettina

Gabriel Ortiz said:


> If you're such a perfectionist, why can't you draw a straight damn line!


There is no relationship between musical perfectionism and drawing skills. Have you ever looked at Beethoven's sketches? Crooked lines, ink splotches, and misshapen notes all over the place! Often, in the heat of inspiration, penmanship is the last thing on a composer's mind.


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## Pugg

Gabriel Ortiz said:


> If you're such a perfectionist, why can't you draw a straight damn line!


Bit harsh isn't it...


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## hpowders

Gabriel Ortiz said:


> If you're such a perfectionist, why can't you draw a straight damn line!


I usually can't even walk a straight line. Damn rum cake!


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## JamieHoldham

Gabriel Ortiz said:


> If you're such a perfectionist, why can't you draw a straight damn line!


If you look closely below at the barlines to the original manuscript of Johann Sebastian Bach's Prelude and Fugue in G Major, BWV 541, you'll notice the barlines are not 100% straight, yet listen to the literal perfection that is his music? Handwriting does not matter, the music does. And Bettina is right, sometimes themes, motifs and entire orchestral ideas flow through my mind and I write it down straight away, as a composition (rarely) or otherwise as sketches - as to not waste the potential of it.

Tl;dr : Music matters, not handwriting.


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> If you look closely below at the barlines to the original manuscript of Johann Sebastian Bach's Prelude and Fugue in G Major, BWV 541, you'll notice the barlines are not 100% straight, yet listen to the literal perfection that is his music? Handwriting does not matter, the music does. And Bettina is right, sometimes themes, motifs and entire orchestral ideas flow through my mind and I write it down straight away, as a composition (rarely) or otherwise as sketches - as to not waste the potential of it.
> 
> Tl;dr : Music matters, not handwriting.
> 
> ]


I would say: checkmate


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## Samuel Kristopher

Did no one get the feeling that Gabriel was being light-hearted in his comment about the straight line? It didn't come across to me as having any serious harshness to it - just a little teasing. But maybe I give people too much credit...


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## Vasks

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Did no one get the feeling that Gabriel was being light-hearted in his comment about the straight line?


I did...........


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## JamieHoldham

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Did no one get the feeling that Gabriel was being light-hearted in his comment about the straight line? It didn't come across to me as having any serious harshness to it - just a little teasing. But maybe I give people too much credit...


Everyone did, although I had to make a response explaining in detail because of any sheep that might read something somewhat insulting to me and just blindly agree with it.

Personally I wasn't insulted nor did I care, I even laughed :lol:


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## Samuel Kristopher

I don't think it was insulting in the slightest really. I don't go a day without my colleagues mocking my English accent or telling me that I dress like an 19th century wannabe. It's all just a bit of banter.


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## EdwardBast

JamieHoldham said:


> Tl;dr : Music matters, not handwriting.


Agreed. Any chance we might hear some?


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## Pugg

EdwardBast said:


> Agreed. Any chance we might hear some?


Just look at his previous started post, you'll be amazed.


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