# The most beautiful or unexpected moment in Turandot?



## Hele (Aug 26, 2020)

For several years I thought that Turandot is just 3h very loud and boring music ... how wrong was I ... Now it is one of my favourite operas, unfortunately I don't even dream about the live perfomance, there just are no Turandots and Calafs left anymore.
But for me, one of the totally unexpected moments was the sudden change of music and overall feeling, when Calaf says in the 2nd act - Il mio nome non sai, dimmi mil mio nome ... After all this tension, it was extremely tender & beautiful, showing that Calaf had far more depth in him than we knew (although he is quite selfish character).
What is for you the most beautiful or unexpected moment in Turandot?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I happen to feel that Calaf was only sealing his success with the ice princess because he was confident that no one would reveal his name. I didn't see that as a "beautiful moment". 
Frankly, I am at a loss trying to find any "beautiful" or "unexpected moments" in that entire opera unless you accept the gentle Liu giving up her life for Calaf. I don't find it beautiful though. I find it incredibly sad. 
Observing that Turandot could be that selfish and self-centered while she stands idly by and watches Liu's demise causes me to want to carry a barf bag with me when I see this opera, because I happen to love the music intensely despite the fact that I detest the two principal characters.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Hele said:


> For several years I thought that Turandot is just 3h very loud and boring music ... how wrong was I ... Now it is one of my favourite operas, unfortunately I don't even dream about the live perfomance, there just are no Turandots and Calafs left anymore.
> But for me, one of the totally unexpected moments was the sudden change of music and overall feeling, when Calaf says in the 2nd act - Il mio nome non sai, dimmi mil mio nome ... After all this tension, it was extremely tender & beautiful, showing that Calaf had far more depth in him than we knew (although he is quite selfish character).


Thank you very much for this post. It might be exactly what I need, because I've had a similar problem with _Turandot_... I've always felt it to be musically boring & dramatically shallow, and, like nina foresti, I detest the two principal characters. This might help me to see more in it than I've understood in the past.

Question (to anyone): Which recorded Calafs (if any) bring out deeper undertones in the character? (One doesn't go to Corelli or Pavarotti for subtlety of characterization... their merits are elsewhere!)

For that matter, do any recorded sopranos bring out deeper undertones in Turandot? Both Nilsson & Callas portray her as a vivid & consistent character, but one that I find almost entirely relentless and repellent.


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## Hele (Aug 26, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> I happen to feel that Calaf was only sealing his success with the ice princess because he was confident that no one would reveal his name. I didn't see that as a "beautiful moment".
> Frankly, I am at a loss trying to find any "beautiful" or "unexpected moments" in that entire opera unless you accept the gentle Liu giving up her life for Calaf. I don't find it beautiful though. I find it incredibly sad.
> Observing that Turandot could be that selfish and self-centered while she stands idly by and watches Liu's demise causes me to want to carry a barf bag with me when I see this opera, because I happen to love the music intensely despite the fact that I detest the two principal characters.


I do agree, that Liu's death was sad and tragic, but the way it was put into music by Puccini ... well, I find it also beautiful. And Turandot's transformation also. I guess I tend to look at the entire opera in a strangely romantic way, although T & C happiness is marred by the tragedy of Liu's death. For that reason, I like "Fanciulla" a lot more.


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## Hele (Aug 26, 2020)

gvn said:


> Thank you very much for this post. It might be exactly what I need, because I've had a similar problem with _Turandot_... I've always felt it to be musically boring & dramatically shallow, and, like nina foresti, I detest the two principal characters. This might help me to see more in it than I've understood in the past.
> 
> Question (to anyone): Which recorded Calafs (if any) bring out deeper undertones in the character? (One doesn't go to Corelli or Pavarotti for subtlety of characterization... their merits are elsewhere!)
> 
> For that matter, do any recorded sopranos bring out deeper undertones in Turandot? Both Nilsson & Callas portray her as a vivid & consistent character, but one that I find almost entirely relentless and repellent.


Yes, the main characters are selfish, strong and proud, and not necessarily in a positive way. But! To be honest, all these constant, typical sufferings & unbelievable plots (ok, it's opera) ... sometimes I just can't take it anymore. "Turandot" is quite a different story. You have to dig deeper, to find beauty in it. Invest your time and patience. Like "Fanciulla", it doesn't reveal itself right away. For me, audio recordings doesn't quite carry all the nuances in Calaf's music ... Maybe I just haven't found it yet. Live performance is another story, you can hear AND see. So, my favourite version is a Zeffirelli's production with Marton and Domingo (MET, 1987), whose portrayals as a character I find very convincing and even moving, especially Turandot's transfiguration (hope, I doesn't offend anybody). How you interpret a character is always important, but in my opinion, especially in this opera, which too often is just loud singing and coping somehow with the tessitura and high notes.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

gvn said:


> Thank you very much for this post. It might be exactly what I need, because I've had a similar problem with _Turandot_... I've always felt it to be musically boring & dramatically shallow, and, like nina foresti, I detest the two principal characters. This might help me to see more in it than I've understood in the past.
> 
> *Question (to anyone): Which recorded Calafs (if any) bring out deeper undertones in the character? (One doesn't go to Corelli or Pavarotti for subtlety of characterization... their merits are elsewhere!)*
> 
> For that matter, do any recorded sopranos bring out deeper undertones in Turandot? Both Nilsson & Callas portray her as a vivid & consistent character, but one that I find almost entirely relentless and repellent.


I sense a next listening challenge :lol:. I haven't given _Turandot_ too much attention (just because I haven't had the time and I seem on have an almost constant Wagner binge) but Di Stefano was a great vocal actor if he wanted to. Björling seemed to be able to communicate with vocal subtleties rather well too but I haven't heard their Calafs. I've heard it said that late Del Monaco had to unveil his acting skills when he lost some of his famous vocal power but I suspect that Corelli was still more subtle compared to Del Monaco (no matter if early or late).

Btw, Hele, nice to see a fellow Estonian!


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Extremes of vulgarity and subtle tenderness are so common in this opera it's almost a theme.

The transformation of the chorus from loud, aggressive, angular bloodthirsty cries to soft, ethereal, melodic bloodthirsty whispers is beautiful and chilling. Gotta love the clarinet figures that drip and flow like blood. Later on, as the chorus builds to another crescendo, this time crying out the name of the executioner, a chorus of boys singing Turandot's melody enters. The arrangement is hauntingly beautiful.

The PPP trio has one of the most beautiful, Ho una casa nell'Honan, especially the diminuendo on the final, unison "Tutto cinta di bambu". This is followed by a lilting series of classic Puccinian parallel chords, pitched high and scored for woodwinds and strings. Beautiful effect.

When Calaf guesses the third riddle, the chorus and orchestra explode with Turandot's theme blaring loudly in unison. Then it comes down to piano, and the theme is repeated by the chorus, but now with the voices set against each other.

Tanto amore segreto is a marvelous bel canto aria, and very tender. At the very beginning, when Liu says, "L'amore" Turandot uncomprehendingly repeats, "L'amore". It's all very subdued after the torture.

The most exquisite moment in the entire score, however, is during Liu's funeral march. After Timur's outburst of anger at learning of Liu's death, the crowd whispers "Ombra dolente" and asks her to forgive them.

Finally, after the opening bombast of the final duet, as Turandot has her awakening, there's another exquisite moment, "O mio fiore mattutino", one Puccini's most beautiful melodic snippets, especially as he sketched the arrangement over a winding, falling "Ah" in the chorus. It gives me chills when done right.

The violence and ugliness of the characters of _Turandot_ is totally intentional. Puccini and his librettists did not accidentally make their characters too unlikable. The whole idea is that they are unlikable, but that they can be transformed into something better through love. And that's as it should be. What's the point of forgiveness if you like the person who is forgiven?


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

_Turandot _is my favorite, from a musical standpoint, of Puccini's operas that I have heard thus far. The score is full of beauty at every point. There is never a dull moment.

As far as the plot goes, where I find beauty amongst all of the terrible stuff that happens is by looking at the big picture, not just the four main characters. Much time is given to the characters other than the four main ones. There are many choral parts and an extensive scene with Ping, Pang, and Pong. I get the impression that Turandot is the rising terror and that everyone is miserable largely because of her. Indeed, she instructs the guards to beat people rejoicing over Calaf's riddle solving, threatens death to the inhabitants of Peking if Calaf's name is not discovered, and then treats Liu horribly. The Emperor begs Calaf to give Turandot up. But after Calaf brings out warm feelings in Turandot, there is a glimmer of hope that through all of suffering endured that Peking will then have a brighter future. Indeed it is the crowd's rejoicing that ends the opera.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Extremes of vulgarity and subtle tenderness are so common in this opera it's almost a theme.
> 
> The transformation of the chorus from loud, aggressive, angular bloodthirsty cries to soft, ethereal, melodic bloodthirsty whispers is beautiful and chilling. Gotta love the clarinet figures that drip and flow like blood. Later on, as the chorus builds to another crescendo, this time crying out the name of the executioner, a chorus of boys singing Turandot's melody enters. The arrangement is hauntingly beautiful.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. I especially agree with the last paragraph. Very well said!


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## Hele (Aug 26, 2020)

adriesba said:


> _Turandot _is my favorite, from a musical standpoint, of Puccini's operas that I have heard thus far. The score is full of beauty at every point. There is never a dull moment.
> 
> As far as the plot goes, where I find beauty amongst all of the terrible stuff that happens is by looking at the big picture, not just the four main characters. Much time is given to the characters other than the four main ones. There are many choral parts and an extensive scene with Ping, Pang, and Pong. I get the impression that Turandot is the rising terror and that everyone is miserable largely because of her. Indeed, she instructs the guards to beat people rejoicing over Calaf's riddle solving, threatens death to the inhabitants of Peking if Calaf's name is not discovered, and then treats Liu horribly. The Emperor begs Calaf to give Turandot up. But after Calaf brings out warm feelings in Turandot, there is a glimmer of hope that through all of suffering endured that Peking will then have a brighter future. Indeed it is the crowd's rejoicing that ends the opera.


My thoughts exactly. There's a lot bigger picture than just a love triangle. Thank you!


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Tanto amore segreto is a marvelous bel canto aria, and very tender. At the very beginning, when Liu says, "L'amore" Turandot uncomprehendingly repeats, "L'amore". It's all very subdued after the torture.


I am glad to read your comments about _Tanto amore segreto_. Liu, in my book, has three major arias in the opera: _Signore ascolta_, _Tanto amore segreto_, and _Tu che di gel_. I have been surprised that people concentrate and excerpt _Tu che di gel_ as I consider _Tanto amore_ a magnificent portrait of Liu as a person, her generosity, her greatness. Lui is one of the great women in Opera. Liu's death is devastating precisely because she reveals her greatness, her full measure a human being, and is the moment when she conquers the love of the audience. The descending phrase _perchè tacendo_ before she despairs with _io gli dò il tuo amore... e perdo tutto!_ reveals all the warmth of her generosity. Liu reveals that she loses even her hope of Calaf's love that his long ago smile gave her to live. She is only left with being "nothing" as she responds to Calaf when he asks who is she (_Nulla sono, una schiava, mio signore._)

Puccini introduced Liu into the story and gave full measure of her greatness. As you perceptively say, Puccini gave her an exquisite and desolate threnody in the funeral march. With Liu's death we lose the one person in the whole opera who we came to love. Puccini was a genius: he needed Liu to effect the transformation of everyone else to the realm of humanity.

The people (the chorus), and PPP get it first. Calaf commences his transformation too with Liu's death and leads him to be ready to die for Turandot's love (_Il mio mistero non è più._ Calaf is the second character who shows to Turandot the strength that love can give. That is the final push in Turandot's transformation into becoming human, when she finally understands love. Liu's death starts that process, and Calaf's surrendering his own life for love is the final push.

Finally, there is a moment in the score, and this is actually Alfano's (I believe), that belongs to Turandot that can be quite moving when she sings _Il suo nome è amor._ The high note is usually sung as a battle cry and does nothing to show the transformation that Turandot has suffered. Only two singers in recordings have done it correctly: one is Callas and the other is, surprisingly, Sutherland. Both of them use a portamento between _é_ and _amor_ which transforms what sounds like a valkyrie battle cry into the expression of a woman transformed by love. This is the moment when an intelligent singer can win the audience to Turandot's side. Unfortunately, it is rarely heard because of the overemphasis on hitting the high note.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

VitellioScarpia said:


> Finally, there is a moment in the score, and this is actually Alfano's (I believe), that belongs to Turandot that can be quite moving when she sings _Il suo nome è amor._ The high note is usually sung as a battle cry and does nothing to show the transformation that Turandot has suffered. Only two singers in recordings have done it correctly: one is Callas and the other is, surprisingly, Sutherland. Both of them use a portamento between _é_ and _amor_ which transforms what sounds like a valkyrie battle cry into the expression of a woman transformed by love. This is the moment when an intelligent singer can win the audience to Turandot's side. Unfortunately, it is rarely heard because of the overemphasis on hitting the high note.


I know you aren't a fan, but actually Ricciarelli does it too on the Karajan recording. In fact she makes a portamento up to a _ppp_ top note and then swells the note for the climax. I've recently re-appraised Ricciarelli's performance and it impressed me more than I expected. I doubt she'd ever have been able to pull off the role in the theatre (whereas you feel that Sutherland might have been able to), but it's a very intelligent conception, even if, ultimately, I prefer someone with more penetrating top notes. Still, I find my favourite Turandots are not the big Wagnerian voices, like Nilsson, Eva Turner, Eva Marton or Nina Stemme, but Callas and Sutherland, who manage to somehow make us like the woman a little more by the end.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

> "Liù non regge più!
> Ah, pietà!"


Must be one of the most magical moments in Turandot (musically and emotionally) and one of the most difficult to sing for soprano (that huge leap against _pp_ of the orchestra) so each time I approach (even the same) live recording I am no less worried if she makes it successfully or not for the 100th time I listen to it.

I'd say the whole Finale of Act I (from "Signore, ascolta!" onwards) and the Act II, Scene 1 (Ping, Pang, Pong) are among the most wonderful scenes in opera literature.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I know you aren't a fan, but actually Ricciarelli does it too on the Karajan recording. In fact she makes a portamento up to a _ppp_ top note and then swells the note for the climax. I've recently re-appraised Ricciarelli's performance and it impressed me more than I expected. I doubt she'd ever have been able to pull off the role in the theatre (whereas you feel that Sutherland might have been able to), but it's a very intelligent conception, even if, ultimately, I prefer someone with more penetrating top notes. Still, I find my favourite Turandots are not the big Wagnerian voices, like Nilsson, Eva Turner, Eva Marton or Nina Stemme, but Callas and Sutherland, who manage to somehow make us like the woman a little more by the end.


I should give the Karajan Turandot a spin. I have not listened since it came out in 1983 (I still have the LPs) and all I remember is the effortful singing and never listened to it again. However, I have heard much more effortful singing since 1983 and perhaps she will sound fine compared to some atrocious Turandot's since then (even some famous ones). It is always a matter of perspective...

I should also give listen to the Caballé recording not the studio but the San Francisco live with Pavarotti from 1977 when she debuted in the role (this one is on a cassette! Remember those? I thought she was a Turandottina but, again, I should give it a whirl. I will report if she does the portamento also as I find it decisive in humanizing the role for me.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

VitellioScarpia said:


> I should give the Karajan Turandot a spin. I have not listened since it came out in 1983 (I still have the LPs) and all I remember is the effortful singing and never listened to it again. However, I have heard much more effortful singing since 1983 and perhaps she will sound fine compared to some atrocious Turandot's since then (even some famous ones). It is always a matter of perspective...
> 
> I should also give listen to the Caballé recording not the studio but the San Francisco live with Pavarotti from 1977 when she debuted in the role (this one is on a cassette! Remember those? I thought she was a Turandottina but, again, I should give it a whirl. I will report if she does the portamento also as I find it decisive in humanizing the role for me.







I was there that mythical night, along with HRH Prince Charles. It was an electric night, with all principals giving their all. I suspect Caballé does the portamento if she was feeling well. I don't remember if that was one of the nights they taped for broadcast (that's what's on the live recording), but I attended several.















See at 1:57:00


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

VitellioScarpia said:


> I should give the Karajan Turandot a spin. I have not listened since it came out in 1983 (I still have the LPs) and all I remember is the effortful singing and never listened to it again. However, I have heard much more effortful singing since 1983 and perhaps she will sound fine compared to some atrocious Turandot's since then (even some famous ones). It is always a matter of perspective...
> 
> I should also give listen to the Caballé recording not the studio but the San Francisco live with Pavarotti from 1977 when she debuted in the role (this one is on a cassette! Remember those? I thought she was a Turandottina but, again, I should give it a whirl. I will report if she does the portamento also as I find it decisive in humanizing the role for me.


It's a long time since I've heard that recording, but I seem to remember rather liking it. It's on youtube, if you can't find your cassette. I got rid of all mine so I woudn't have a means of playing them anymore.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I know you aren't a fan, but actually Ricciarelli does it too on the Karajan recording. In fact she makes a portamento up to a _ppp_ top note and then swells the note for the climax. I've recently re-appraised Ricciarelli's performance and it impressed me more than I expected. I doubt she'd ever have been able to pull off the role in the theatre (whereas you feel that Sutherland might have been able to), but it's a very intelligent conception, even if, ultimately, I prefer someone with more penetrating top notes. Still, I find my favourite Turandots are not the big Wagnerian voices, like Nilsson, Eva Turner, Eva Marton or Nina Stemme, but Callas and Sutherland, who manage to somehow make us like the woman a little more by the end.


I am not sure that I have the same reaction, meaning that I don't think anyone can make Turandot the character at all likeable. The music is often lovely, although the translation of the lyrics is often disappointing to say the least. (What sounds like a grand love song is mostly a repetition of the idea that she will never know his name.) It is one of the most implausible plots in a genre steeped in implausible plots. The staging and music are what make it a great opera, to me.

The DVD recording that was done in the Forbidden City is very interesting, in part from the perspective of the logistical complications and artistic choices made, and also because we get glimpses of multiple singers performing the roles. (I believe that there is one DVD about the production, and a second of the performance as a whole, featuring just one of the sets of singers. Sadly, that set seems to have been chosen based on being the most visually appealing, and the one that seemed the best Turandot from the production selections got left out. It is a little tricky since I am not sure that she got the best Calaf.)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's a long time since I've heard that recording, but I seem to remember rather liking it. It's on youtube, if you can't find your cassette. I got rid of all mine so I woudn't have a means of playing them anymore.


Please see post #15


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## sharkeysnight (Oct 19, 2017)

I like Turandot as a tale of cruelty and power. The Robert Wilson production I saw here in Toronto was decent but I think the best element was the way that Turandot's proclamation of Calaf's "name" was essentially as a discovery of love as another way to control and dominate, turning Calaf into a pawn. It's impossible for me to imagine the ending as being remotely romantic.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

MAS said:


> Please see post #15


Caballè did not do the portamento in the broadcast, nor in the EMI recording. In the latter, however, she sweetens the high note by starting it on a pianissimo and then expanding it to a fortissimo. A nice effect which was a trademark of hers.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Turandot is not a likeable role: a cocooned, scared, cruel and selfish character. I was focusing in my post on how it is possible for a musician to effect a believable transformation in vocal terms. Turandot is knocked down by first losing the riddle trials, then by being confronted to Liu and what true love means for humans, and finally by Calaf putting his life in her hands when he tells her his name. Additionally, Calaf wants Turandot in equal terms, not as a conquest, not against her will but _in love_. Turandot takes Calaf willingly and that's the key point of the story. She is not just conquered by her erotic awakening, and her attraction to him. Calaf gives her the option of choosing and she does in front of everyone: (_Davanti al popolo con me!_ That's her true victory: she's become human, capable of love.


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

I haven't listened to Turandot in a little while but I was really vibing with one of the Callas recordings last fall (Serafin, 1957). It was my favorite Puccini opera up until I heard Tosca, which is my current favorite; however, perhaps a little refresher in Turandot might bring it back to number one. I am really fascinated by the music in Turandot and I think the Liu's death and the Calaf's reaction is one of my favorite passages in all of opera. As many people say, there is a shift once Puccini's music ends and Franco Alfano's music begins which I don't dislike nor love. I have only listened to recordings of the opera and I have never watched it, so I am not as well-versed in the plot/libretto as some of you are. Maybe once I see it live I'll have a full impression on the opera.

If I did have to point out one moment in the opera that I find really beautiful/favorite part aside from Liu's death, it would be this part from act 2:






This chorus has a lot of orchestral interlude which I really like. From what I can gather, this part is from the beginning of Act 2 Scene II as the crowd welcomes the entrance of the Emperor and his court. It is my favorite chorus in Turandot and maybe out of all Puccini repertoire as a whole.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

I went back to the von Karajan/Ricciarelli/Domingo recording of Turandot as I mentioned above. Interesting how much I had forgotten about the performance and recording since I listened to it in 1982. It was like listening to it for the first time.

I recalled the recording as effortful and I "remembered" strain and wobbling. I find HvK's conducting extremely slow in some sections to the point of disfiguring the music and losing the tension. I cannot but admire both Domingo and Ricciarelli coping with long phrases at treacherous vocal ranges. There's no spark to the music, there's beauty and orchestral coloring galore but no emotion. It is all very polished, professional and boring.

The sense of precariousness in the vocal production is not just with La Katia but also Domingo! Moments of strong singing by Ricciarelli's are shot immediately because of sudden changes to unsupported _pianissimi_; _In questa reggia_ is a case in point. La Katia's wobbling actually bother me less than I remembered because they are at least supported (we've heard much wider and uglier wobbling since then). I found more off-putting the disembodied and unsupported _pianissimi_ as they rob the singing of strength and direction. So, her Turandot is precarious and lacks purpose to me: it is almost as if she were humming it without much interest. In contrast, Caballè's assumption, while boxing above her weight, _is_ big singing. Tsaraslondon mentioned above Ricciarelli's portamento in _Il suo nome è amor_. Unfortunately, it is virtually inaudible because of the sudden change of volume and drop of support at that point.

Domingo is also foisted by an odd interpretation and strenuous sound (probably the longueurs imposed by HvK) which makes his Calaf effortful and a bit whiny. I saw Domingo as Calaf at the Met and, although somewhat light, he sounded freer and in character unlike he does in this recording.

Barbara Hendricks lovely tone and beautiful singing does not compensate for a "small" Liu. Liu is one of the great women in opera and needs a "big sing" and I do not mean volume. It requires _terribilità_ and Hendricks does not/cannot provide it.

Finally, the DGG sound is terrible HiFi to my taste: sometimes the voices are very closed miked (e.g., the whole final duet) and some other times they are far back in perspective for no apparent dramaturgical reason (e.g., Act II) and the sounds is unrealistically bright. Everyone sounds either too far or too close except for the chorus who sound like they are singing backstage in a different acoustic environment (too much reverb). I listened to the recording twice to try to get away from the sonics and my frustration increased the second time. This has to be von Karajan's production decisions which make no sense to me: he's foisted by his own petard.

It is a recording to which I will not return.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I think the conducting could have been successful with a better cast. There's always something somewhat artificial in Karajan's conducting (a meaningless phrase to say, "There's something I don't like"), and honestly I generally prefer a comparatively small time conductor like Votto, but I like the chance to hear the opera at a more relaxed pace. Karajan also follows the directions to take the concertato at the end of Act I at the same tempo as Non piangere Liu, and I think this is a very successful choice. I also appreciate that the sound draws out aspects of the orchestration I wouldn't have even suspected existed from listening to the Mehta set. That being said, the cast couldn't support this music at normal tempi, and certainly can't support it here. Ricciarelli is painful, Hendricks is nice but that's it, as you say Vitellio, and Domingo is way out of his league as Calaf. The obviously spliced in (and painful) high C is distracting and embarrassing (just sing the lower option!) There are even mistakes in the PPP music, as the singers get out of sync with the orchestra. Give me a similar conception from the pit with Lauri-Volpi, Turner, and Muzio, and we'd have a winner.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

/\ Where is the spliced high C?


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

I agree with you that the concertato at the end of Act I works better when taken at the same tempo as the tenor aria. There are some aspects that I like about the slower tempi but some parts go a bit off the rails. The mess in the ensemble with the three ministers getting out of sync with the orchestra in Act II, Scene I is jarring. I am surprised that they did not re-record the section and splice it in... :lol:

I have the sensation (no basis for this) that the recording was done somewhat rushed given the noticeable splices, the errors in ensemble, I believe there are some wrong orchestral notes in the final duet, the odd acoustics and the lack of cohesion. It is almost like a rehearsal for a recording.

Adriesba, the spliced high C is in _Ti voglio ardente d'amor._


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

VitellioScarpia said:


> Adriesba, the spliced high C is in _Ti voglio ardente d'amor._


Just found it. Indeed that is quite sloppy editing!


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