# Could they actually play their own pieces?



## DTut

Always wondered if Beethoven could actually play the Appasionata sonata. Could Bach really play his Partitas etc. or is that irrelevant as long could conceive of such masterworks. 

curious Dave


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## Dr Johnson

I think that I read somewhere that Sibelius, although a violinist, could not have played the solo part of his own Violin Concerto.


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## KenOC

DTut said:


> Always wondered if Beethoven could actually play the Appasionata sonata.


I'm sure he could. He was one of the best pianists in Vienna and had made much of his income up to that point as a performer. When he wrote it, his hearing was still adequate, although that wouldn't last much longer and he soon had to give up his performing career.


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## Ukko

Schubert freely admitted that he couldn't play the Wanderer Fantasy. One of his late works - for violin and piano - was obviously composed for a professional pianist.


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## hpowders

Rachmaninov, yes.


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## DavidA

hpowders said:


> Rachmaninov, yes.


Rachmaninov of course composed his piano works as a showpiece for his own virtuosity, as did the young Beethoven and Mozart. Of course, LvB's deafness meant a retirement from playing but we can have no doubt from contemporary reports that he could have played all his piano works if he could have heard them. Apparently Saint-Saens was also a very gifted pianist.


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## majlis

Tchaikovsky wasn't a good pianist. No doubt he couldn't played his concerts, nor his awful Grand Sonata. And I wonder if Albeniz was capable of play his terrible Suite Iberia.


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## hpowders

DavidA said:


> Rachmaninov of course composed his piano works as a showpiece for his own virtuosity, as did the young Beethoven and Mozart. Of course, LvB's deafness meant a retirement from playing but we can have no doubt from contemporary reports that he could have played all his piano works if he could have heard them. Apparently Saint-Saens was also a very gifted pianist.


Mozart of course premiered his own keyboard concertos. Wish I had the tapes!!


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## Pugg

DTut said:


> Always wondered if Beethoven could actually play the Appasionata sonata. Could Bach really play his Partitas etc. or is that irrelevant as long could conceive of such masterworks.
> 
> curious Dave


Good question, however none of us is old enough to know what really happened , way back in time .


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## Il_Penseroso

DTut said:


> Always wondered if Beethoven could actually play the Appasionata sonata.


Of course he could play it!

https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Composing-the-Appassionata


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## hpowders

Dr Johnson said:


> I think that I read somewhere that Sibelius, although a violinist, could not have played the solo part of his own Violin Concerto.


Not surprising.


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## hpowders

Yes. Schubert, it's been said, couldn't handle his Wanderer Fantasy.

He should have obtained a Sviatoslav Richter piano roll and faked it.


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## DTut

Il_Penseroso said:


> Of course he could play it!
> 
> https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Composing-the-Appassionata


Interesting, thanks!


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## tdc

I'm pretty sure Bach could play any of his keyboard works as he was considered the finest organist around at the time. 
Albeniz and Debussy could play all of their works as far as I know, though I don't think Ravel was quite up to performing some of his most challenging works.


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## Il_Penseroso

DTut said:


> Interesting, thanks!


Welcome... :tiphat:


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## hpowders

Ukko said:


> Schubert freely admitted that he couldn't play the Wanderer Fantasy. One of his late works - for violin and piano - was obviously composed for a professional pianist.


Just what I need! Another reason to dislike Schubert! 

I shouldn't talk. I can barely handle pouring water from a kettle into a cup.


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## breakup

DTut said:


> Always wondered if Beethoven could actually play the Appasionata sonata. Could Bach really play his Partitas etc. or is that irrelevant as long could conceive of such masterworks.
> 
> curious Dave


It is my understanding that Liszt had very large hands and had a longer reach than most other pianists, and as a result wrote several pieces that only he, or someone with as long a reach, could play. Since he was a performer, this was a bit of job security for his own pieces.


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## Animal the Drummer

Slightly off topic but Elgar, though a good violinist, probably couldn't manage at least some of his own concerto, though in fairness it is a bear to play.


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> Good question, however none of us is old enough to know what really happened , way back in time .


Speak for yourself, whippersnapper!


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## gardibolt

Been reading a fair amount about Liszt lately, and he certainly could play his own works. Where he ran into trouble was in creating "popular versions" for people who were not Franz Liszt to play, which obviously is what publishers wanted most. Typically even the simplified versions remained well beyond the capabilities of the ordinary musician, let alone the talented amateur. Leslie Howard makes the remark to the effect that apparently Liszt had no conception whatsoever of the more limited abilities of other pianists.


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## Guest

Could Ravel play "Scarbo" from "Gaspard de la Nuit"?


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## Samuel Kristopher

What about Berlioz or Wagner, who came to the compositional game comparatively late? I wonder if they would've been able to play all of the works from their repertoire, though I can't think of any works of either composer that strike me as particularly difficult.


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