# Dvorak symphonies



## Declined

The top 3 sets seem to be Kertesz, Rowicki, and Kubelik. Which of these would you recommend and why? Thanks.


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## KenOC

I have all three sets. My choice is Kubelik, then Kertesz, then Rowicki. Why? Just more taut and exciting to me, something nice in general and because Dvorak's symphonies (esp. the earlier ones) sometimes need a bit of that.


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## hpowders

Yeah. One can't go wrong with Kubelik or Kertesz in Dvorak.


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## Guest

Personally, I love the Vaclav Neumann recording with the Czech Philharmonic on Supraphon. Kertesz was the first cycle I heard, and will have a place in my heart, but Neumann has become quickly my favorite.


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## david johnson

The only Dvorak box I have is Kertesz and it is greatly enjoyable. I find I listen to my other singles more than the box.


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## DamoX

Kubelik, let me say. Sounds very stable like Dvorak's appearance, for me.


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## realdealblues

I would second Vaclav Neumann. He has two cycles, an analog one and a digital one. Both are top notch, but I would give the earlier one the "best played Dvorak" trophy out of all the available cycles. Neumann with the Czech Philharmonic at it's peak blows the other Orchestras (good as they may be) away when it comes to the actual playing of the music. The later digital cycle has better sound but I'm not that bother by the acoustics of the earlier cycle. I find it very warm other than maybe the 1st Symphony. The digital cycle also features the Czech Philharmonic and it's still a great cycle, but overall my affections are for the earlier cycle.

Kubelik is great across the board as well.

Rowicki is especially good in the early Symphonies.

I've never really understood the praise of the Kertesz set though. There are many things in the score that he leaves out or feels he needs to correct. A few minutes into the 6th Symphony for instance after a few bars of fast tempo Dvorak brings back his earlier theme and asks for a return to the original tempo with the additional marking of "grandioso". Kertesz ignores Dvorak's instructions and hurries through as fast as he can. He corrects Dvorak often enough that I feel you really miss out on some additional color that someone like Neumann provides.


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## Declined

DamoX said:


> Kubelik, let me say. Sounds very stable like Dvorak's appearance, for me.


What do you mean by stable?

Anyway, I've narrowed it down to Rowicki or Kubelik.


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## Itullian

Rowicki early, Kubelik last 3, Kertesz overall.


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## Declined

What about the Suitner set? I'm listening to it on Spotify right now and it soudns pretty good.


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## bigshot

My favorite is Talich. The Czech Philharmonic sound wonderful with Dvorak. The Neumann box is very good too. I like Kertesz and Kubelik too. Haven't heard Rowicki. But hands down, the best conductor of Dvorak is Talich.

This isn't a symphony, but it will give you an idea of what Talich brings out in the music...


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## Couac Addict

I'd lean towards Kertész for a cycle as he keeps the earlier symphonies revved up where others are a little dull. Did anyone care about the earlier symphonies before Kertész? Interestingly (or maybe not), he wouldn't be my first choice for any of the later symphonies. Those would be a mix of Kubelik, Belohlávek, Jansons and maybe Davis.


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## Itullian

Good buy.


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## Granate

Hello. I found this thread on google. I'm currently writing down the plan for the Dvorak Symphonies challenge. I've noted the complete sets and *I'm now looking for reccomendations of spare recordings: which should I try?*

Complete sets to compare:

Kertész LSO
Kubelík BPO
Rowicky LSO
Suitner SKB
A. Davis PO
Serebrier BouSO
Neumann CzPO AAD
Belohlavek CzPO

Spare recordings I've found (so far):

Bernstein NYPO (9)
Bernstein IsPO (9)
Dausgaard SwSO (6,9)
C. Davis RCO (7,8,9)
Dohnányi ClO (7,8,9)
Giulini LPO WC (7,8,9)
Giulini RCO Sony (7,9)
Karajan BPO 60s DG (9)
Karajan BPO 70s WC (8,9)
Karajan BPO 80s DG (9)
Karajan WPO 80s DG (8,9)
Kondrashin WPO (9)
Maazel WPO (7,8,9)
Solti CSO (9)
Szell ClO (7,8,9)


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## wkasimer

Granate said:


> Hello. I found this thread on google. I'm currently writing down the plan for the Dvorak Symphonies challenge. I've noted the complete sets and *I'm now looking for reccomendations of spare recordings: which should I try?*


There's another Kertesz recording of the 9th, with the Vienna PO, which I think is substantially better than the LSO one.

You should also consider some recordings by Vaclav Talich and Karel Ancerl.


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## Heck148

Granate said:


> Hello. I found this thread on google. I'm currently writing down the plan for the Dvorak Symphonies challenge. I've noted the complete sets and *I'm now looking for reccomendations of spare recordings: which should I try?*
> 
> Symphony #7 - Monteux/LSO - my favorite
> #9 - Toscanini/NBC - great "New World" - one of AT's best, also Reiner/CSO - same level; Szell/Cleveland very good also.


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## bharbeke

9: Fricsay, Berlin Philharmonic
7: Chung, Vienna Philharmonic
8: Temirkanov, Santa Cecilia Orchestra
3 and 6: Chung, Vienna Philharmonic

Enjoy your journey!


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## Granate

bharbeke said:


> 9: Fricsay, Berlin Philharmonic
> 7: Chung, Vienna Philharmonic
> 8: Temirkanov, Santa Cecilia Orchestra
> 3 and 6: Chung, Vienna Philharmonic
> 
> Enjoy your journey!


Probably in one year! :lol::lol:


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## Pugg

wkasimer said:


> There's another Kertesz recording of the 9th, with the Vienna PO, which I think is substantially better than the LSO one.
> 
> You should also consider some recordings by Vaclav Talich and* Karel Ancerl*.


I second this, very good interpretation ( for me that is)


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## Merl

As Dvorak is my favourite symphonist after Beethoven, I have all available symphony cycles except Macal's OOP Koss cycle (desperate to get this without paying sily prices), Valek's Supraphon cycle (which is supposed to be awful) and Anguelov's cycle. Of those not mentioned there's Kosler's rustic set (boxey recording but played with great gusto and Czech flavour), Gunzenhauser's slightly better than serviceable set (great for beginners) and Belohlavek's very impressive cycle (lovely playing on this). However, I'm with RDB on praising Neumann's analogue Supraphon cycle to the skies. It's warm, un-mannered and contains some of the most ravishing Dvorak playing committed to disc. There are a few individual recordings of the latter symphonies I'll comment on later but I have to go out now.


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## Merl

Fortunately Dvorak's symphonies are well-served on disc and there are some great accounts especially of the latter symphonies. Of the partial sets of later symphonies I'd heartily recommend *Jansons and the Oslo PO's traversals of symphonies 5, 7, 8 & 9*. These are available on a budget disc from Brilliant (may be OOP but there are usally lots on 2nd hand sites like Ebay). The performance of the 5th (IMO) is the best in the catalogue and every other performance is a winner too. Otherwise you should defintely check out *Ivan Fischer's recordings of Symphony 7 (superb) and Symphonies 8&9 (impressive)*. If Fischer recorded the rest of the set it would probably be my go-to set (apart from Neumann).
*Dohnanyi's recordings of symphonies 7-9* are terrific but there is also a 6th he recorded with Cleveland and that is even better. One full set not mentioned is *Pesek*'s. It's a very strong, competitive set and symphonies 4,5 & 8 are top-notch (but there's not a duffer in the set tbh). Otherwise *Mackerras* has recorded the late symphonies a number of times and I have a special affection for his accounts of 7-9 with the London PO and 8&9 with the Prague SO. *Colin Davis' accounts of 7-9 with the Concertegebouw* are fine too, as are *Levine / Dresden* in 8&9 and Harnoncourt. Alsop 6-9 and Barbirolli 7-9 are decent but not earth-shattering enough for me and Ozawa's recording of 8&9 sound great but lack bite. However, *Dorati*'s wonderful accounts of 7-9 are essential (especially a brilliant 8th). For those who like a warmer set of 7-9 then *Giulini*'s accounts are lovingly played and recorded (but personally I prefer a little more bite in my Dvorak) and they are first-rate versions. *Chung and the VPO*'s accounts of symphonies 3,6,7&8 are crackers, too as are *Walter*'s fantasitic traversals or 8&9 with the Columbia SO. 
There are a few recordings I haven't heard but would like to for cuiosities sake. Nowak and the RPO recorded symphonies 6-9 and Marriner & ASMF recorded 7-9. I've heard neither. 
There are plenty of others out there that I wouldn't recommend though including:
Davis LSO Live 6-9 (boring and underplayed)
Sawallisch 7-9 (terrible recording and bland readings) 
One special disc I need to mention is *Honeck's sensational 8th symphony with Pittsburgh SO*. Quite simply it is my favourite Dvorak recording ever. Stunning sound, amazing playing and a recording so exciting that I actally gasped at the end (it was very loud too). Hope these help. I'm sure to have missed loads but hey ho, I was just filling in the gaps Granate left from his previous post. Sorry for the words in bold but it's such a rambling post I thought it might help. :lol:


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## Granate

ThanK you for all the reccomendations! I don't usually trust anything from the Virgin label, but it looks like the set is on print again. Also, the Honeck No.8 is not that expensive on CD.


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## Merl

Whilst Pesek's and Suitner's cycles aren't my very favorites they are excellent sets and no-one buying them would be disappointed.


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## Mal

Gunzenhauser with the Slovak Philharmonic Orchestra on Naxos is interesting in 1 & 2. I listened to them a few months after listening to the Kertesz box and thought they bore comparison - so if you are bargain hunting, or want modern digital, it could be a way to go.


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## Mal

Granate said:


> I'm currently writing down the plan for the Dvorak Symphonies challenge. I've noted the complete sets and *I'm now looking for reccomendations of spare recordings: which should I try?*
> 
> ...
> Kondrashin WPO (9)
> ...


The Vienna Philharmonic at their lushest in a Decca demonstration recording; is there a better version of the slow movement? Maybe slightly lacking in tension compared to others, but it's well worth trying as a representative of the "relaxed" approach.


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## Brahmsian Colors

wkasimer said:


> There's another Kertesz recording of the 9th, with the Vienna PO, which I think is substantially better than the LSO one.


Agree. It's my all time favorite Dvorak Ninth---both imposing and sensitive. Also prefer his Eighth with the London Symphony, but his poetic slow movement only of the Seventh. For that symphony, I'll stick with Szell/Cleveland and Bernstein/New York Philharmonic. The only other Dvorak symphony I enjoy is the Fifth, with Rowicki conducting.


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## CnC Bartok

To the Gods of Dvorak mentioned above - Vaclav Talich and Karel Ancerl - I'd also add the wonderful Karel Sejna. His recordings of Symphonies 5 to 7 are fantastic, and he makes a pretty decent case for the under-appreciated Legends too.


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## starthrower

I took realdealblues advice and listened to the Nuemann recordings. I'm sold on the digital set even though it's a bit more expensive. The older set sounds a little thin. Kubelik and Pesek suffer from dated sound. I actually really like Chung's recordings re-issued on that Eloquence set. Too bad its only 4 symphonies.


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## Granate

Granate said:


>


Hello people. I would like to continue with my Verdi Opera listenings but I would be unable to write good reviews, yet alone watch productions.

I already finished the Johann Strauss challenge without a lot of interest and I made the decision to start the Dvorak symphonies challenge. I would have done the Schubert one, but I have my Karajan Warner cycle at home and not next to me.

I spent all morning looking for recordings on Spotify, and nearly found them all, except 5 symphonies from the Libor Pešek Erato cycle (Warner doesn't usually care for putting their catalogue on the site). Spotify only has Nos. 4, 7, 8 & 9, and the others are missing *everywhere* (I tried everything).

*Could any of you PM me a Rip of symphonies 1, 2, 3, 5, & 6, please?* I can settle with MP3 320kbps. I would be very grateful.


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## Merl

Granate said:


> Hello people. I would like to continue with my Verdi Opera listenings but I would be unable to write good reviews, yet alone watch productions.
> 
> I already finished the Johann Strauss challenge without a lot of interest and I made the decision to start the Dvorak symphonies challenge. I would have done the Schubert one, but I have my Karajan Warner cycle at home and not next to me.
> 
> I spent all morning looking for recordings on Spotify, and nearly found them all, except 5 symphonies from the Libor Pešek Erato cycle (Warner doesn't usually care for putting their catalogue on the site). Spotify only has Nos. 4, 7, 8 & 9, and the others are missing *everywhere* (I tried everything).
> 
> *Could any of you PM me a Rip of symphonies 1, 2, 3, 5, & 6, please?* I can settle with MP3 320kbps. I would be very grateful.


If I've not sent it you by Sunday then PM me, Granate. I'll rip all the Pesek (you still need) for you. ;-)


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## Granate

Merl said:


> If I've not sent it you by Sunday then PM me, Granate. I'll rip all the Pesek (you still need) for you. ;-)


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## Merl

Granate said:


>


PM sent, Granate. Unfortunately there were problems with Symphonies 1&2 (knackered discs). If anyone else has decent copies of those two symphonies we would both be pleased.


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## vincula

I was quite happy with my Rowicki/LSO set, but then Szell/CSO and his _eSzeting Szellerando_ renditions are growing on me.

I picked this album at a bargain price, and boy it's a cracker:









Regards,

Vincula


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## jegreenwood

My new Giulini/CSO set has Nos. 8&9. Looking forward to a listen.


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## Merl

vincula said:


> I was quite happy with my Rowicki/LSO set, but then Szell/CSO and his _eSzeting Szellerando_ renditions are growing on me.
> 
> I picked this album at a bargain price, and boy it's a cracker:
> 
> View attachment 139152
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


I love Rowicki too but those Szell recordings of the last 3 are terrific. You should try Dohnanyi's last 3 too. They're great too.


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## vincula

Merl said:


> I love Rowicki too but those Szell recordings of the last 3 are terrific. You should try Dohnanyi's last 3 too. They're great too.


Thanks for the tip, Merl. I will!

Regards,

Vincula


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## Granate

Reminder of the availability of this box for those who are interested.


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## Simplicissimus

I’m a fan of Dvorak 7-9, and after years of listening to various versions, no box will satisfy me. Rather, I have collected:

Symphony No. 7 in D Minor, Op. 70 - Dorati/LSO, 1963, Mercury Living Presence 
Symphony No. 8 in G Major, Op. 88 - Munch/Boston SO, 1961, RCA Living Stereo
Symphony No. 9 in E Minor, Op. 95 - Reiner/CSO, 1957, RCA Living Stereo (SACD)

I am partial to Living Stereo and Living Presence sound quality, and I prefer these conductors’ interpretations.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Kertesz and Neumann for complete sets, Talich, Kubelik, and Szell for 7-9, Bernstein/NY for No. 9.


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## vincula

Simplicissimus said:


> I'm a fan of Dvorak 7-9, and after years of listening to various versions, no box will satisfy me. Rather, I have collected:
> 
> Symphony No. 7 in D Minor, Op. 70 - Dorati/LSO, 1963, Mercury Living Presence
> Symphony No. 8 in G Major, Op. 88 - Munch/Boston SO, 1961, RCA Living Stereo
> Symphony No. 9 in E Minor, Op. 95 - Reiner/CSO, 1957, RCA Living Stereo (SACD)
> 
> I am partial to Living Stereo and Living Presence sound quality, and I prefer these conductors' interpretations.


I've got these one on vinyl. Gob-smacking sound and exciting renderings, even though sometimes they hold their feet on the throttle a bit too long -and that's even taking Szell into account:lol:

Regards,

Vincula


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## Animal the Drummer

Pugg said:


> I second this, very good interpretation ( for me that is)


Agreed. I enjoy Ancerl's recordings of more or less anything and am surprised they haven't had more attention over the years.


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## CnC Bartok

^^^ Impeccable taste! :tiphat:


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## Animal the Drummer

I learned all I know playing for Dr.Teeth and the Electric Mayhem.


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## CnC Bartok

^^ I understand Statler and Waldorf provided the recreational drugs. Do please correct me if I am incorrect.....


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## Animal the Drummer

I'm afraid you are. It was Scooter. Hidden depths, that one. S and W did partake though.


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## starthrower

vincula said:


> I was quite happy with my Rowicki/LSO set, but then Szell/CSO and his _eSzeting Szellerando_ renditions are growing on me.
> 
> I picked this album at a bargain price, and boy it's a cracker:
> 
> View attachment 139152
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


I have this set and Neumann's second complete cycle. I haven't gotten too enthused about the first five. 8 & 9 are really the only two I love.


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