# Launching a Contemporary Music - Larger Works Listening Group



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

I am proposing that we start a listening group for larger works from the last 50 years or so. I am totally open to input but I am thinking that we ideally do works that are 45-120 minutes long. We could potentially do even longer works than that though we would have to figure out how to adjust things so as not to overwhelm the members of the group. 

If we did 45-120 minute works, would you want to do one work per week or one work every-other week?

Now as far as selecting works: I think a nomination/seconding system would work well. Perhaps each person could nominate up to 10 works and could second up to 10 other works. We would then get a feel for which works generate the most interest and would then come up with a schedule for listening. What do you think of this system for selecting works?

When it comes down to it then, I feel like it would be ideal to have each member take turns presenting the works. This could be as little as finding the appropriate youtube link or could involve program notes or anything else.

One need not be an expert to participate. I, for one, am NOT a composer or musicologist. I am just a dude, but I would love to be exposed to new works and would love to learn from different people. When we have done similar groups in the past, I have learned a ton and have found works that I still treasure to this day.

I propose no limitations to exlude music with an electronic element, like electro-acoustic music, for example.


Please let us know if you are interested, give your thoughts on the above questions, and give any other suggestions for this group. If we don't have at least a good handful of willing participants, we won't proceed.

Much Thanks!

Tyler

20centrfuge


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Alternately, we could focus on a 30-75 minute range?


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

Great idea! Would be glad to join such group.

From my perspective, it is less the length of a piece (we listen to Wagner, be it 4 hours or more, don't we?) that matters than rather the time to focus on a music which is maybe not yet known to us, maybe in a very individual musical language ... 

... my first idea was, to omit the 120mins-limit (well, nobody forces to us start with LICHT or some Feldman stuff ...), but to extent the time for listening and discussing to two or even four weeks. Don't know whether the idea is good.

How to find some consensus? Collect proposals, and then, deviating from most current practises, at first vote on which works not to admit for election. If someone dislikes a work, he will probably not listen to it (2-4 hours, right?) several times. If there are some foristers disliking some work, there should be the opportunity to discard it. - After all, we are speaking about music, not about people, aren't we?

After this the usual election could start ...


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

An alternative set-up could be like the weekly string quartet thread (which is very successful): every week one person in the group selects the work of the week.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I'm in. But I don't think copying the weekly SQ thread is a good idea.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm in. 

But I will stipulate that 45 minutes is about the longest I like a piece to be.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I am potentially in but am not sure how the suggested proposal system (we propose 10 and second 10) could work. Part of the purpose of the thread as I understand it is to hear music that we might not otherwise listen to but that suggests that we would be proposing and seconding works that we know? I feel the string quartet thread (anything that fits the criteria can be proposed and we all take turns to propose) works well and is simple. Some weeks I don't follow it but I do when a work that appeals to me is up and the thread has a good mix of obscure - there are quite a lot of contemporary proposals - and somewhat familiar works.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I'm in. But I don't think copying the weekly SQ thread is a good idea.


I'm going to retract, at least partially. While a weekly selection requires a commited group, a biweekly or monthly selection might tend to diminish participation as everything will fade. If the idea are longer works (which I'm not opossed to, although I wouldn't put it as a prerequisite) then a biweekly selection could be the way to go, but that's a hard limit on the every other week. I don't see the point in nominations, let each member select a work freely.


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I'd also like to join.



20centrfuge said:


> I am proposing that we start a listening group for larger works from the last 50 years or so. I am totally open to input but I am thinking that we ideally do works that are 45-120 minutes long. We could potentially do even longer works than that though we would have to figure out how to adjust things so as not to overwhelm the members of the group.


I was looking through lists of pieces I know and heard of, and I know a lot fewer 45-120-minute works than I thought. Perhaps we should lower the range to 35 or 40 to 120. And if that seems too short, then maybe if a person chooses a work in the 35-45 min work they have to choose a second work in that range (ideally a second work related to the first in some way). In other words: you get one work if it's in the 45-120 range, or two 35-45 min works. I don't know if this is a good idea, just thinking out loud.



> If we did 45-120 minute works, would you want to do one work per week or one work every-other week?


One per week seems too short of time, one every other week seems too long. Maybe we change it depending on the length of the upcoming work? For example: one week for a 45-75 min work, two weeks for a 75-120 min.



> Now as far as selecting works: I think a nomination/seconding system would work well. Perhaps each person could nominate up to 10 works and could second up to 10 other works. We would then get a feel for which works generate the most interest and would then come up with a schedule for listening. What do you think of this system for selecting works?


I agree with some others here about alternate nominating processes (i.e. just have everyone pick their favorite for a scheduled week). I also think with a nomination/seconding system, it's possible that the works that "generate the most interest" may have at most 2-3 votes, which I would hardly call a consensus pick. This process might also take quite a bit of time, which would cause the group to lose steam.



> When it comes down to it then, I feel like it would be ideal to have each member take turns presenting the works. This could be as little as finding the appropriate youtube link or could involve program notes or anything else.
> 
> One need not be an expert to participate. I, for one, am NOT a composer or musicologist. I am just a dude, but I would love to be exposed to new works and would love to learn from different people. When we have done similar groups in the past, I have learned a ton and have found works that I still treasure to this day.


I agree about presenting works. In past contemporary music groups we've done, I usually go all out on presentation mostly because it helps _me_ understand the work better. Writing things out focuses my brain more on the intricacies of a work. To the extent I can do so, of course, because I'm no expert either.

But at the very least, one thing I really think needs to be done is that each presenter posts not just their one or two favorite recordings but _every_ commercial/live recording they can find on youtube. You don't need to embed the video in the post, a simple hyperlink is fine with maybe a description of who's playing for each. And the presenter can say which one or two is their favorite (assuming they have a favorite, which isn't necessary). Most contemporary works will just have a couple, so it shouldn't be a huge burden, but I've noticed in the last couple of years that the more famous contemporary works out there are finally receiving their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th recordings. I think it would be good if the rest of the participants are aware of these other options.


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I take it that the impetus for starting this listening group was 20centrfuge's asking for recommendations last week in another thread? If so, here's a link to the thread for reference and inspiration:

Greatest Works from the Last 50 Years?

Some other recent contemporary threads:

Works which will be 50 years old during 2022
Best contemporary composers
Favourite solo contemporary piano pieces after 1970
21st century chamber music
The Contemporary String Quartet: works written since 1970


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Ok, so after reading everyone's input:

1. We'll ditch the nomination system and each participant can select their own work(s). 
2. There will be no max time limit, though if a work is longer than 60 minutes we will allot two weeks for that work. 
3. There will be no minimum time limit. In the case of a work shorter than 30 minutes, the participant may add a second shorter work to their program.
4. We'll set up a schedule and each participant will take turns presenting the piece of the week.
Latecomers can be added to the end of the schedule. 
5. After everyone has had a turn, we can start a new round if there is sufficient interest.
6. Works from roughly the last 50 years.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

How bout we start on Sunday, April 3, 2022?

When you know which work you'd like to do, please let us know. I'll set up a random order based on everyone that has expressed interest.



I appreciate all of you a lot. I literally have nobody in my personal life that shares my interest in new music. Having all of you around is rejuvenating and rewarding for me!


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> How bout we start on Sunday, April 3, 2022?
> 
> When you know which work you'd like to do, please let us know. I'll set up a random order based on everyone that has expressed interest.


I'd say that first you should gather the names of the members that will be participating, then do a random order, and each week (without previously telling anyone) someone selects a work. Just like the SQ thread. This is better than a pre-selection because maybe you get inspired by the previous choice, maybe you want to show something different, or similar, or maybe something else completely, or what you've been listening to lately informs your choice, etc. Much more fluid than having chosen a work beforehand, and much more interesting, IMO


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I’ll be happy to suggest something. One problem is access to the music - I mean if it’s not on YouTube it’s a problem. Does everyone have Spotify?


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

No Spotify, but Qobuz.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Let’s assume everyone has a streaming service. 

And to allaroundmusucenthusiast’s point - we’ll do what you suggested. 

Does anyone want to go first on April 3?


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I have an important exam the next day, so not me


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Projected Participants:

20centrfuge
Allaroundmusicenthusiast
Art Rock
Calvinpv
Enthusiast
Mandryka
Philidor
Simon Moon


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I will participate when I have time (hopefully most of the works).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

20centrfuge said:


> Let's assume everyone has a streaming service.
> 
> And to allaroundmusucenthusiast's point - we'll do what you suggested.
> 
> Does anyone want to go first on April 3?


Yes there's something which I'm keen to see how other people respond to.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

20centrfuge said:


> Projected Participants:
> 
> 20centrfuge
> Allaroundmusicenthusiast
> ...


Count me out, I was just giving advice - I also do not have a streaming service. I may hop in once in a while.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

mmsbls said:


> I will participate when I have time (hopefully most of the works).


Would you like to present one week?


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Projected Participants:

20centrfuge
Allaroundmusicenthusiast
Calvinpv
Enthusiast
Mmsbls
Mandryka
Philidor
Simon Moon


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> Let's assume everyone has a streaming service.
> 
> And to allaroundmusucenthusiast's point - we'll do what you suggested.
> 
> Does anyone want to go first on April 3?


I can go first if no one else wants to. I was thinking of presenting two works that pair really nicely together, one 49 min, the other 30 min. I don't know if that means one or two weeks. But if 79 min is too much (with one of them being nearly 50 min long), I have a couple of other options.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I'll participate.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

projected participants 

20centrfuge
Allaroundmusicenthusiast
Calvinpv
Enthusiast
Mmsbls
Mandryka
Philidor
San Antone
Simon Moon


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

calvinpv said:


> I can go first if no one else wants to. I was thinking of presenting two works that pair really nicely together, one 49 min, the other 30 min. I don't know if that means one or two weeks. But if 79 min is too much (with one of them being nearly 50 min long), I have a couple of other options.


We could change the guidelines, but right now you could either do the 49 minute work by itself, or you could do the 30 minute work and a shorter work (also 30 minutes or less).


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> We could change the guidelines, but right now you could either do the 49 minute work by itself, or you could do the 30 minute work and a shorter work (also 30 minutes or less).


Sounds good. I'll replace the 49 min work with another 30 min work.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Mandryka will go first on 4/3/22 and calvinpv will go second (presumably on 4/10/22)


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Here's the official order for now

Mandryka
Calvinpv
Philidor
20centrfuge
Allaroundmusicenthusiast
Enthusiast
San Antone
Mmsbls
Simon Moon

We'll add latecomers to the end of the cue. I'll put up a new thread for the actual music. How does calling the new thread "Contemporary Listening Group" sound?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I have an important exam the next day, so not me


What do you do? I mean, are you a student somewhere? (I'm assuming it's not a driving test! Or a test for becoming a UK citizen!)


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> What do you do? I mean, are you a student somewhere? (I'm assuming it's not a driving test! Or a test for becoming a UK citizen!)


Masters in economics


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