# Round 4: Abscheulicher. Leider, Borkh



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon, the wait is over.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


>


^"This video is only available to YouTube Music Premium members"


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> ^"This video is only available to YouTube Music Premium members"


I have no way of checking that. Sorry. I substituted another one for the Leider video so I hope that works for you.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Frida Leider's recording of this has long been familiar to me. Inge Borkh's hasn't. Borkh applies herself to the music with enthusiasm, but we do hear her working at it: her voice lacks something in smoothness and evenness of scale, and her phrasing of the long-lined lyricism of "Komm, Hoffnung" sounds incompletely considered, not entirely coherent. It's in that section that we hear what separates the women from the girls (or the men from the boys, if we take Leonore's disguise into account). Leider's faultlessly sustained, tonally even, legato shaping of the phrases reminds us that she was something like a Universal Soprano, as accomplished as Mozart's Countess as she was as Wagner's Brunnhilde. A recording much inferior to Borkh's can't disguise the virtues of such singing.


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## Georgieva (7 mo ago)

My vote is for Frida Leider.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I didn’t realize Inge Borkh, whom I had previously admired, had sung Fidelio (or at least, recorded this aria). On the face of it, she doesn’t seem suited to it - the voice is not ideally deployed and she seems to move in episodes; admittedly it’s an awkwardly written piece.

Anyway, Leider has no such troubles and seems to find what the piece needs.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Mine goes to Leider, her ‘Abscheulicher‘ (and much more) a long favourite.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This is the first time I've heard either of these (not, sure what you meant about "the wait is over", John) but I thought Leider absolutely nailed it. Absolutely glorious. As Woodduck said, her experience as a Mozartian certainly helps and she fulfills all the requirements of the aria. She combines the heroic sound of a Wagnerian with wonderful accuracy in the coloratura sections.

Borkh kep reminding me of the student singing the aria in one of Callas's masterclasses, whom she exhorts to sing _legato, legato, legato _though to little effect. The voice seems an ungainly instrument for the piece and she moves somewhat in steps rather than a view for the long _legato_ line.

Leider was an easy win for me here, and she will take a lot of beating.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This is the first time I've heard either of these (not, sure what you meant about "the wait is over", John) but I thought Leider absolutely nailed it. Absolutely glorious. As Woodduck said, her experience as a Mozartian certainly helps and she fulfills all the requirements of the aria. She combines the heroic sound of a Wagnerian with wonderful accuracy in the coloratura sections.
> 
> Borkh kept me reminding me of the student singing the aria in one of Callas's masterclasses, whom she exhorts to sing _legato, legato, legato _though to little effect. The voice seems an ungainly instrument for the piece and she moves somewhat in steps rather than a view fo the long _legato_ line.
> 
> Leider was an easy win for me here, and she will take a lot of beating.


"The wait is over" because I liked both of these a lot, but as typical I am the only one who liked Borkh, who sang the low passages much better. At least this round got a lot of passion behind it from you guys without any discord. Most appear to think this is a flawed aria, but I really enjoy it a lot. It was from one of my favorite live operas. I saw it 4 times in a row. Great cast. Frida Leider is fairly new to me because of this group and I can see why she is held in such esteem.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> "The wait is over" because I liked both of these a lot, but as typical I am the only one who liked Borkh, who sang the low passages much better. At least this round got a lot of passion behind it from you guys without any discord. Most appear to think this is a flawed aria, but I really enjoy it a lot. It was from one of my favorite live operas. I saw it 4 times in a row. Great cast. Frida Leider is fairly new to me because of this group and I can see why she is held in such esteem.


I don't know why anyone would think the aria flawed. I've always loved it, right from the first time I ever heard it live as part of a complete performance of the opera, sung by Helga Dernesch, as it happens.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't know why anyone would think the aria flawed. I've always loved it, right from the first time I ever heard it live as part of a complete performance of the opera, sung by Helga Dernesch, as it happens.


In hindsight I wish I had paired Leider with Dernesch. Sorry. Glad you like it as well. This is the second time I appeared to be the only person who was a fan of Borkh


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I almost decided not to vote and am just doing it because I have to pick one and being completely unfamiliar with both singers, I decided strictly on the appeal of their voices (or not) as I know nothing of the aria and how it should be sung.
Leider


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't know why anyone would think the aria flawed. I've always loved it, right from the first time I ever heard it live as part of a complete performance of the opera, sung by Helga Dernesch, as it happens.


I agree enthusiastically. The aria is unique in the literature, perfect in context, and an exciting and moving piece of music. 

It's some sort of received wisdom that _Fidelio_ as a whole is a "flawed" opera, but I've never felt its unique qualities to be defects. I wonder whether the people who think it's flawed are the same people who object to the last movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony. In both works the juxtaposition of the sublime and the mundane makes a point - something to do with democracy and "alle Menschen" - that some might love but others find disagreeable. One writer, as I recall, was scornful of the idea of opening the opera with Marzelline ironing her laundry. What snobbery! I suspect that writer finds the tenor solo in the 9th symphony vulgar.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> In hindsight I wish I had paired Leider with Dernesch. Sorry. Glad you like it as well. This is the second time I appeared to be the only person who was a fan of Borkh


I am a fan of Borkh, but not in this aria!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I am a fan of Borkh, but not in this aria!


Her Strauss is impressive. Didn't she record Turandot too?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Her Strauss is impressive. Didn't she record Turandot too?


Yes. With Tebaldi and Del Monaco.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Her Strauss is impressive. Didn't she record Turandot too?


Yes, she excelled in dramatic roles, including the Lady in *Macbeth*, and I remember a recording of *Antigone* (which I bought for the impressive embossed cover!).


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Her Strauss is impressive. Didn't she record Turandot too?


Yeah,both of those. I thought she had some fans here, but not for this aria apparently. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes. With Tebaldi and Del Monaco.


My only long time opera buddy loves this Turandot and introduced her to me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I am a fan of Borkh, but not in this aria!


It is like a perfect match on a personals site but he wants an open relationship LOL


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Lebendige Vergangenheit (vivid past) was written above Borkh's portrait. In case of Fräulein Leider the past is even more vivid and beautiful. How did sound those divas who saw Wagner or even Beethoven alive? Was their singing so beautiful, that those who heard it couldn't tell about it? As a man who saw a Valkyrie. 
Being serious, I doubt again if I can choose. They are too good to look for faults in their singing. Leider is perfectly academic, Borkh seems more dramatic, with beautiful low notes (I like low female voices, though I'm not agree when drama begins dominating the opera). So, Borkh. Leider will be venerated without my vote.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> It's some sort of received wisdom that _Fidelio_ as a whole is a "flawed" opera, but I've never felt its unique qualities to be defects.


I wouldn't object even if you said _"it's "superior art" than the "cream puff""_.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> I wouldn't object even if you said _"it's "superior art" than the "cream puff""_.


Your lack of objection to what I haven't said is duly noted and properly filed.


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