# Joseph Campbell tells the backstory of Tristan und isolde



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Here's part of an entertaining lecture by Joseph Campbell on Gottfried's _Tristan,_ Wagner's literary source for his opera. Gottfried died in 1210 and never finished his version of the story, which was based on a version by Thomas of Britain from around 1160.

Wagner's opera is unusual in that most of the action of the story takes place before the opera begins, as we learn from Isolde. By reducing the action to a few crucial situations, Wagner is able to compose a unique psychodrama in which music can expand to a maximum degree, narrating almost in real time the characters' emotions and perceptions, while creating a feeling that passion obliterates time and allowing us to participate vicariously in the lovers' dangerous illusions.

The opera's backstory is nonetheless interesting (most composers would have been delighted to set its intrigues on the stage for a more conventional entertainment), and Wagner did find it important enough that he felt the need to simplify somewhat the events recounted by Gottfried. I enjoyed hearing Campbell tell Gottfried's version, which contains some amusing, typically medieval detail that Wagner omitted. Especially interesting is that it was not Wagner who first thought to have Tristan and Isolde fall in love before they ever drank the love potion, and it also seems to have been Gottfried who suggested that the death potion and the love potion were essentially identical. It seems that the tale was ripe for Wagner's "modern" treatment, and that it came to him more developed and whole than did the myths and romances that he so brilliantly synthesized in _Parsifal_ and the _Ring._


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The opera is already pessimistic enough without adding the idea that their love was actually them simply succumbing to the hysteric effects of a slow-acting poison. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300813/


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300813/

This is hilarious. I recall reading it during a previous discussion of the love potion here on the forum. I believe DavidA was challenging us to prove that T & I were in love prior to their cocktail hour. We suggested reading the libretto and listening to the music, for starters.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Here's part of an entertaining lecture by Joseph Campbell on Gottfried's _Tristan,_ Wagner's literary source for his opera. Gottfried died in 1210 and never finished his version of the story, which was based on a version by Thomas of Britain from around 1160.
> 
> *Wagner's opera is unusual in that most of the action of the story takes place before the opera begins, as we learn from Isolde. By reducing the action to a few crucial situations, Wagner is able to compose a unique psychodrama in which music can expand to a maximum degree, narrating almost in real time the characters' emotions and perceptions, while creating a feeling that passion obliterates time and allowing us to participate vicariously in the lovers' dangerous illusions. *
> 
> The opera's backstory is nonetheless interesting (most composers would have been delighted to set its intrigues on the stage for a more conventional entertainment), and Wagner did find it important enough that he felt the need to simplify somewhat the events recounted by Gottfried. I enjoyed hearing Campbell tell Gottfried's version, which contains some amusing, typically medieval detail that Wagner omitted. Especially interesting is that it was not Wagner who first thought to have Tristan and Isolde fall in love before they ever drank the love potion, and it also seems to have been Gottfried who suggested that the death potion and the love potion were essentially identical. It seems that the tale was ripe for Wagner's "modern" treatment and that it came to him more developed and whole than did the myths and romances that he so brilliantly synthesized in _Parsifal_ and the _Ring._


Yes! In the Ring, many actions are taken "off-screen" and were only referred to in the dialogues. One of my favorite examples is in Act 2 of Die Walkure when Wotan tells Brunnhilde that Alberich is hoarding a dark army and how it will spell the end for the gods when Alberich begets a son with a human woman. I know this monologue bores many listeners, but I find it well-crafted and climatic (or even cinematic). It also allows us to focus on the psychology of Wotan and Brunnhilde. Of course, we also need good singers and a conductor to pull that off.

Imagine how a typical Baroque composer would set scenes and scenes about Alberich runs around seducing women! It would be like comparing a Tarkovsky' sci-fi to an average Hollywood sci-fi.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Yes! In the Ring, many actions are taken "off-screen" and were only referred to in the dialogues. One of my favorite examples is in Act 2 of Die Walkure when Wotan tells Brunnhilde that Alberich is hoarding a dark army and how it will spell the end for the gods when Alberich begets a son with a human woman. I know this monologue bores many listeners, but I find it well-crafted and climatic (or even cinematic). It also allows us to focus on the psychology of Wotan and Brunnhilde. Of course, we also need good singers and a conductor to pull that off.


I'm glad to hear that you appreciate Wotan's confession. I remember Conrad L. Osborne back in 1968 (?) saying that he might be one of the few people alive who consider the monologue a great piece of dramatic writing, and he too pointed out the need for the singer to know what he was singing about. With someone like Hans Hotter I find the monologue quite gripping.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> I'm glad to hear that you appreciate Wotan's confession. I remember Conrad L. Osborne back in 1968 (?) saying that he might be one of the few people alive who consider the monologue a great piece of dramatic writing, and he too pointed out the need for the singer to know what he was singing about. With someone like Hans Hotter I find the monologue quite gripping.


I've always found this scene to be a highlight of the Boulez/Chéreau rendition, with the Foucault pendulum which stops its movement during and just hangs there lifelessly.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300813/
> 
> This is hilarious. I recall reading it during a previous discussion of the love potion here on the forum. I believe DavidA was challenging us to prove that T & I were in love prior to their cocktail hour. We suggested reading the libretto and listening to the music, for starters.


Funny how that can sometimes help.


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