# Insomnia is evil. Do you have any tips, ideas, successes - or hope - to share?



## laurie

If you have ever suffered from chronic insomnia, then I don't have to tell you how evil it truly is, & how negatively it can affect nearly every aspect of your life. I've had occasional problems with it since I was a kid; but, (due to some personal troubles), the past 3 years have been a nightly struggle. I honestly can't remember anymore what a peaceful, good night's sleep actually _feels_ like. 
I won't bore you with the list of things that I've tried; it's a long one!

_*Any*_ thoughts, ideas, things that have worked for you? 
Because all I want, is this ... 

_ I am so tired ...._


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## hpowders

laurie said:


> If you have ever suffered from chronic insomnia, then I don't have to tell you how evil it truly is, & how negatively it can affect nearly every aspect of your life. I've had occasional problems with it since I was a kid; but, (due to some intense personal troubles), the past 3 years have been a nightly struggle. I honestly can't remember anymore what a peaceful, good night's sleep actually _feels_ like.
> I won't bore you with the list of things that I've tried; it's a long one!
> 
> _*Any*_ thoughts, ideas, things that have worked for you?
> Because all I want, is this ...
> 
> _ I am so tired ...._


Wow! That's too bad! Things that work: no naps; no "mind" activity before sleeping-includes internet and reading. Warm milk sometimes helps-the wife drinks it-I hate the taste of milk and avoid it like TC trolls. A cool, very dark, quiet room for sleeping is also important. Also, no talking over major problems just before bedtime. And no pets on the bed!!


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## JAS

My sympathy on your trouble. There are few things quite as invigorating as a good night's sleep (when one can get them). Most of the advice is so common that it need not be repeated here (and perhaps not so useful as to be worth trying). The one thing I do know is that there is a book that I was assigned in college called The Cloud of Unknowing. It is a fairly small book and it is the one book that I have _never_ been able to read. I always fall asleep after just a few pages, no matter where I begin in the text. (I had to make do with notes in college, and what was covered in lectures in class.) There is probably a free online text, but it may not have the same effect on you.


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## Gordontrek

Very sorry to hear of your struggles. I too struggled with insomnia for a while; my sleeping was always rather fitful during my mid-teens up until I started college. I managed to overcome it for the most part, though. There's three things I did:
1. Exercise. It doesn't matter what you do; sometimes I commit to cycling a few miles in a day, or I spend several hours in the yard doing tasks that involve plenty of exertion. The point is, get yourself good and tired. But don't exercise immediately before going to bed because your body will still be in an excited state. Exercise, let the adrenaline wear off, and chances are you'll be good and drowsy. 
2. WHITE NOISE. This was probably the single most effective thing I did. It may seem odd but I discovered that half of what was keeping me awake was silence. It is actually deafening to me. Whenever I have something running like a fan or heater I fall asleep much easier. Unfortunately in my area it's rarely cold enough use the heater, and fans tend to dry out my sinuses. So what I did was buy a white noise machine. Since then my sleeping has improved by leaps and bounds. The one I bought was called Lectrofan. It was fairly inexpensive and a very worthwhile investment. It has 10 different levels of pure white noise and 10 different sounds that simulate fans. I got mine from Amazon but they don't seem to carry it anymore, although you can order it from other places. 
3. NO electronic device usage within an hour before going to bed. This is a difficult one to follow, especially for me since I often have homework to finish at night. But our phones, tablets, computers etc. give off blue light which makes our brains very active, and we need to give our brains time to settle down. I recommend reading books within an hour of sleeping. They tend to calm my mind down and actually stimulate it in a therapeutic way. Make sure it's something you enjoy reading and doesn't make you think too hard. 
I hope this helps you in at least some way, and I wish you luck.


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## Sloe

The best thing to do is just to await the sleep. I have had really difficult to sleep some days it have usually caused me to sleep only a couple of hours because I have been supposed to go up later so I have slept easily the next day instead.


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## Blancrocher

I know that radio drama works for some people. You might consider tuning into the BBC as part of your get-to-sleep ritual:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/programmes/genres/drama/player

Good luck!


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## senza sordino

Gordontrek said:


> Very sorry to hear of your struggles. I too struggled with insomnia for a while; my sleeping was always rather fitful during my mid-teens up until I started college. I managed to overcome it for the most part, though. There's three things I did:
> 1. Exercise. It doesn't matter what you do; sometimes I commit to cycling a few miles in a day, or I spend several hours in the yard doing tasks that involve plenty of exertion. The point is, get yourself good and tired. But don't exercise immediately before going to bed because your body will still be in an excited state. Exercise, let the adrenaline wear off, and chances are you'll be good and drowsy.
> 2. WHITE NOISE. This was probably the single most effective thing I did. It may seem odd but I discovered that half of what was keeping me awake was silence. It is actually deafening to me. Whenever I have something running like a fan or heater I fall asleep much easier. Unfortunately in my area it's rarely cold enough use the heater, and fans tend to dry out my sinuses. So what I did was buy a white noise machine. Since then my sleeping has improved by leaps and bounds. The one I bought was called Lectrofan. It was fairly inexpensive and a very worthwhile investment. It has 10 different levels of pure white noise and 10 different sounds that simulate fans. I got mine from Amazon but they don't seem to carry it anymore, although you can order it from other places.
> 3. *NO electronic device usage within an hour before going to bed. *This is a difficult one to follow, especially for me since I often have homework to finish at night. But our phones, tablets, computers etc. give off blue light which makes our brains very active, and we need to give our brains time to settle down. I recommend reading books within an hour of sleeping. They tend to calm my mind down and actually stimulate it in a therapeutic way. Make sure it's something you enjoy reading and doesn't make you think too hard.
> I hope this helps you in at least some way, and I wish you luck.


I've underlined and put in bold something often overlooked. I've set my ipad to nighttime mode, but it's not good enough.

I occasionally struggle falling asleep. But I don't have insomnia. I occasionally think too much about work, that's my issue usually.

I've decreased the amount of caffeine I drink. I now drink two cups of tea with caffeine per day, the first in the morning and the second at lunch, no caffeine in the afternoon. Alcohol doesn't help me sleep.

Fresh air and fresh oxygen is great, but often difficult in our modern life. I'm indoors most of the day, though now I am able to walk to and from work, one hour outdoors each day.

There probably isn't one cure all. Each will respond to a different therapy for insomnia. I hope you get some sleep soon.


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## amfortas

For me, it's listening to classical music.

I probably shouldn't have admitted that.


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## Vaneyes

I want atleast seven hours of solid sleep, that one or two pee-breaks won't destroy.

For years, I've used an over-the-counter sleep medication with short half-life. It works for me, and it's safe for me, but I haven't been diagnosed with insomnia. Best counsel is with a physician and/or pharmacist. :tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

hpowders said:


> Wow! That's too bad! Things that work: no naps; no "mind" activity before sleeping-includes internet and reading. Warm milk sometimes helps-the wife drinks it-I hate the taste of milk and avoid it like *TC trolls*. A cool, very dark, quiet room for sleeping is also important. Also, no talking over major problems just before bedtime. And *no pets on the bed*!!


TC Trolls, really?

No pets on the bed. Luckily, our Burmese hasn't been flattened yet.


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## hpowders

Vaneyes said:


> TC Trolls, really?
> 
> No pets on the bed. Luckily, our Burmese hasn't been flattened yet.


The best thing is no napping during the day. Fight it off. If you do, you will have a better chance of sleeping soundly at night.

Also, posting pithily without antagonism helps one go to bed with a clear conscience and minimal guilt... a sound night's sleep is the happy result.


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## Vaneyes

hpowders said:


> The best thing is no napping during the day. Fight it off. If you do, you will have a better chance of sleeping soundly at night.
> 
> Also, posting pithily without antagonism helps one go to bed with a clear conscience and minimal guilt... a sound night's sleep is the happy result.


Getting affairs in order definitely helps.
I've heard that about naps. Guess I'm lucky, the occasional nap doesn't affect the bigger event.:tiphat:


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## Dan Ante

An infallible fix for insomnia = never go to bed sober.


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## Vaneyes

Dan Ante said:


> An infallible fix for insomnia = never go to bed sober.


The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep. - W.C. Fields


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## Triplets

I'm a Primary Care Physician and insomnia is a big problem. I tell my patients to read Aristotle's treatise, Nicomedean Ethics. If they can finish 1 chapter without falling into a sound stupor, then they truly have a problem.


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## Lenny

I can only speak for myself, but for me staying up late and doing things, reading, watching movies helps. I try to go to sleep only after I'm truly wasted. Because if I make my bed quiet, calm, ease up my nervers, drink a sip of milk, do everything they tell me in TV, I just sleep 2-3 hours and wake up. Can't get sleep anymore, and to my experience that's much worse than getting to bed late and then sleeping only few hours. Cannot explain it, but that's how it is for me.

Of course it is not that easy. When the sleep deprivation starts to pile up, it's hard to stay up late.


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## Pugg

Every problem is as big as one makes it, no sleeping problems here.


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## Meyerbeer Smith

Blancrocher said:


> I know that radio drama works for some people. You might consider tuning into the BBC as part of your get-to-sleep ritual:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/programmes/genres/drama/player
> 
> Good luck!


Excellent suggestion! I usually go to sleep listening to a radio play or audio drama. There's a lot of good stuff on YouTube these days, and some companies specialise in it (Big Finish in the UK does telefantasy). I've tried listening to music, but it's too exciting (and possibly too complex) to put me to sleep.

Make sure you're hydrated; dehydration can cause insomnia.

Some people swear by meditation. And others by ************.

Destress. Worrying that you won't sleep makes it more likely you won't.

And I'll second what others have said:
Exercise some time during the day, even if it's only walking.

Look at what you're eating and drinking; avoid alcohol and stimulants (e.g. caffeine). I once made the mistake of drinking slow release coffee at 9am; at 3am I was feeling bright and alert and listening to Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand.


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## Pugg

SimonTemplar said:


> Excellent suggestion! I usually go to sleep listening to a radio play or audio drama. There's a lot of good stuff on YouTube these days, and some companies specialise in it (Big Finish in the UK does telefantasy). I've tried listening to music, but it's too exciting (and possibly too complex) to put me to sleep.
> 
> Make sure you're hydrated; dehydration can cause insomnia.
> 
> Some people swear by meditation. And others by ************.
> 
> Destress. Worrying that you won't sleep makes it more likely you won't.
> 
> And I'll second what others have said:
> Exercise some time during the day, even if it's only walking.
> 
> Look at what you're eating and drinking; avoid alcohol and stimulants (e.g. caffeine). I once made the mistake of drinking slow release coffee at 9am; at 3am I was feeling bright and alert and listening to Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand.


The latter will do........


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## SixFootScowl

laurie said:


> If you have ever suffered from chronic insomnia, then I don't have to tell you how evil it truly is, & how negatively it can affect nearly every aspect of your life. I've had occasional problems with it since I was a kid; but, (due to some personal troubles), the past 3 years have been a nightly struggle. I honestly can't remember anymore what a peaceful, good night's sleep actually _feels_ like.
> I won't bore you with the list of things that I've tried; it's a long one!
> 
> _*Any*_ thoughts, ideas, things that have worked for you?
> Because all I want, is this ...
> 
> _ I am so tired ...._


This is one of those things that is hard to understand, especially if a person never has experienced it. I really did not have issues with insomnia until about a year ago. I would have some nights I could not get to sleep for several hours or if I slept and then woke I could not get back to sleep. It might be one or two days in a row or several in a week. It was a problem for several months then seemed to be gone but came back. I can identify some stress events and ongoing situations that I think contributed to it or perhaps launched it.

At the end of December I went through intensive brain wave optimization treatments and they seemed to help a great deal, but ongoing stressful situations were hindering it so I did still get bouts of insomnia. Yet, I am pretty sure it helped because I had pain in my gut that had no physical source after going through medical tests. The gut pain had started suddenly and the insomnia followed. But after the intensive brain optimization sessions the gut pain was gone, and feelings of anxiety were much less.

One thing that may have hindered the treatments was that I was trying to get cataract surgery and when I had to cancel my first surgery date in February because of a big project deadline at work, I rescheduled for early March, but then a record wind storm took out the power for the surgery center the evening before I was to have my surgery. Part of the anxiety over that was I was trying to avoid getting a cold, yet had a somewhat hoarse voice for most of that time. If you get a cold, they will cancel the surgery as they cannot have you laying on the table with instruments sticking in your eye and you cough or sneeze.

Finally I got the surgery completed two Thursdays ago and I have to say that I have slept well ever since. (The night before the surgery I slept only 3 hours even though I went to bed early because I had to be there at 6:15 am.) I was not anxious about the surgery itself, just about it getting cancelled. I hope this lasts, and I hope you can find a way to work out what is hindering your sleep. I don't know if the treatments I went through are offered in your area, but it would be worth looking into.

Other than that I read that being on the computer or television late in the evening hinders your body from producing melatonin that helps you go to sleep. You can wear yellow glasses to help filter out the bad light. You can also put your computer screen to a better setting.

http://www.treehugger.com/gadgets/how-use-screens-night-without-ruining-your-sleep.html

https://chriskresser.com/how-artificial-light-is-wrecking-your-sleep-and-what-to-do-about-it/


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## KenOC

One cause of difficulty falling asleep is sleep apnea. Do you tend to doze off in daytime? Do you snore when you do sleep? Could be you need a CPAP machine. You'll need to ask your doctor about this. Sleep apnea is very common among older people who are overweight.

I've used a CPAP for eight years and when I lay down, I'm gone gone gone. Well, until the bladder calls.


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## Ingélou

I second Gordontrek's advice about white noise. I have tinnitus and use a white noise machine for that purpose. Set to the 'ocean wave setting' it is very soothing in its own right.

I find that trying to 'see' a picture in my head is the best way to drift off. Sometimes I try a 'pastel rainbow' - I picture a room of soft furnishings in each of the colours of the rainbow, but a pastel version: first pink, then apricot, then soft yellow, then pale green, sky blue, pale indigo, lilac. Or try to imagine a snowy mountain scene - the white is very helpful.

I second the advice about reading being good, and not using the computer late if you can help it.

There's advice available on breathing in and out slowly - out for longer than you breathe in. 
http://www.medicaldaily.com/life-ha...-will-supposedly-put-you-sleep-just-60-332122

I do try the breathing exercises recommended in an article I read once: breathe in for three slow count, out for three slow count, in for four slow count, out for four slow count - all the way up to in for seven slow count, out for seven slow count. Then you work back down again. Sometimes this does the trick before I've got back down again.

Counting backwards from a high number, slowly on each breath, sometimes works.

I have problems getting up for the loo in the night and then getting to sleep afterwards. Recent research suggests that people who eat salty snacks have worse problems having to get up in the night, as salt can't be dealt with unless it dissolves, so their bladder and kidneys are working hard on processing the salt all night.

You have my heartfelt sympathy. I really hope something works for you. :tiphat:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

one whiskey, one bourbon and one beer. If that does not do it, then repeat until done.............


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## TxllxT

*Free sleeping drug*

One reason for insomnia may be a hidden kind of hyperventilation, irregular working of your breathing in & out. When you use a paper bag (or plastic bag when you know the risks) on your mouth & nose and breath in & out about five-six times, the effect will be that you feel your head turning heavy & dizzy. Soon the real sleep will set in. Below the Russian doctor for cosmonauts Ivan Pavlovich Neumyvakin explains in Russian this free sleeping drug.


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## Marinera

I soak feet in magnesium chloride baths, but more often just rub in it in my arms and legs half an hour before going to sleep. Have to wash it off the skin after 30-40 minutes. Magnesium chloride is basically sea salt concetrate. Lots of magnesium here, essential mineral for the body, that aids nervous and muscular functions, acts as a general relaxant on the body. It absorbs very well through the skin, actually better than if it goes through digestive system. I researched it a lot, there are many benefits to it. If you interested you can look it up. The other magnesium is in a black powder form, some people make drinks with it, but it is laxative and I think it is not as well absorbed. 
I don't know if you'd fall faster asleep, because first I have to work on switching off my brain, feeding it a line 'ok I'll think about it tomorrow', otherwise I'll be thinking till morning, but I noticed that my sleep is much deeper and more refreshing when I use some magnesium before sleep.

My sister swears by Himalayan salt lamp. One of her daughters is a bad sleeper. She leaves it on for a few hours before my niece's bedtime, and she says my niece falls asleep much faster. The description claims that this lamp improves air quality, and therefore sleep too. I don't have it so cannot tell.

But like someone already mentioned doing lots of excercize, being in montion is one of the most important factors to have a good sleep.


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## Krummhorn

KenOC said:


> . . . I've used a CPAP for eight years and when I lay down, I'm gone gone gone. Well, until the bladder calls.


12 years for me with CPAP. I love that machine - quiet, very quiet and also has a humidifier for the arid climate where we live.

During the initial sleep study I experienced over 365 "awakenings" during the first 90 minutes ... they put me on a CPAP and those awakenings decreased to 4 in the same time period. Amazing results.

Owning a CPAP does required a doctor's prescription; health insurance should help cover most of the costs. Nice thing about these is when flying you ARE allowed to carry this with you boarding the plane - you ARE then allowed two pieces of stowable luggage. Since it is a medical device the airline cannot (by law at least in the US) refuse to allow you to carry it onboard.


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## Lenny

Krummhorn said:


> 12 years for me with CPAP. I love that machine - quiet, very quiet and also has a humidifier for the arid climate where we live.
> 
> During the initial sleep study I experienced over 365 "awakenings" during the first 90 minutes ... they put me on a CPAP and those awakenings decreased to 4 in the same time period. Amazing results.
> 
> Owning a CPAP does required a doctor's prescription; health insurance should help cover most of the costs. Nice thing about these is when flying you ARE allowed to carry this with you boarding the plane - you ARE then allowed two pieces of stowable luggage. Since it is a medical device the airline cannot (by law at least in the US) refuse to allow you to carry it onboard.


Interesting! I also have apnea to some degree, and it really doesn't help with my chronically troubled mind... Could you please briefly decribe how that machine is used in practice? Do you sleep with it or how?


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## Pat Fairlea

Triplets said:


> I'm a Primary Care Physician and insomnia is a big problem. I tell my patients to read Aristotle's treatise, Nicomedean Ethics. If they can finish 1 chapter without falling into a sound stupor, then they truly have a problem.


That admirable poet Wendy Cope used to recommend reading Andrew Motion's poetry as a cure for insomnia.


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## laurie

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> one whiskey, one bourbon and one beer. If that does not do it, then repeat until done.............


George Thorogood suggests trading out the whiskey for one scotch!


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## Vaneyes

laurie said:


> George Thorogood suggests trading out the whiskey for one scotch!


Single Malt.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Vaneyes said:


> Single Malt.


Now your talkin......................


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## SixFootScowl

Back to topic:

Another thing to consider is that, while there are things you can do to hider getting to sleep, usually those are not the main issue. And the person suffering insomnia has no idea why it is happening to them. It is very frustrating.


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## quietfire

Insomnia sucks and I often suffer from it. Could be genetic.

And this is why I appreciate it a lot when I wake up and say to myself - hmmm... I actually slept well tonight.


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## Krummhorn

Lenny said:


> Interesting! I also have apnea to some degree, and it really doesn't help with my chronically troubled mind... Could you please briefly decribe how that machine is used in practice? Do you sleep with it or how?


I use the CPAP for sleeping at night and even naps during the day (I am a senior citizen - naps are beneficial for me). The machine is calibrated with a positive air flow at a certain pressure. The exact pressure is determined during the required 'sleep study' where various probes and sensors are attached to your head and body to measure heart rate, blood pressure, eye movements, etc.

My CPAP has a water reservoir as well ... only distilled water is used. I can turn on a heater that will warm the water up to about 108° (F) and it emits a nice stream of humidified pressurized air into my nostrils.

CPAP stands for Continuous Positive Airway Pressure. More information on this can be found HERE.

There are different types of 'masks', some covering both nostrils and mouth, others just the nostrils (which is my preferred setup). Various parts are periodically replaced (nose pillows, tubing, filters, etc) for which some medical plans will pay for all of it or portions of the cost. I'm on Medicare and it picks up most of the costs involved, including the initial purchase of the machine.

I have only missed two nights without the use of this CPAP throughout the 12 years using it: 1) once on a camping trip in a remote area without power access; 2) one night when I had to sleep upright in a chair due to the flu. I take this with me on vacation trips, even trips abroad. Airlines must allow it as carry on luggage and that carrying case does not apply to any limits on carry on luggage. So I am allowed two carry on cases when boarding instead of the usual one (1) case.

I absolutely love this machine; my wife was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea so we each have our own equipment. I actually look forward to going to sleep if that can be considered a possibility.

Ask your medical professional about having a sleep study performed. Insurance should cover that test. In my case the results were dramatic when I was put on the machine.


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## JeffD

What keeps me awake, often enough, is anxiety about work. I find turning on the radio (or Sirius/Xm) very softly. Inane chatter keeps my brain from "going to work". I have an app that turns it off in 90 minutes.


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## Sloe

I had problems sleeping yesterday. I will see if I can sleep today.


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## Huilunsoittaja

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> one whiskey, one bourbon and one beer. If that does not do it, then repeat until done.............


Yes, alcohol does make one sleepy... but wake up later very groggy and dehydrated.

Someone dear to me had a chronic insomnia problem for years and years (made him look rather dour sometimes... ), and I think the reason for it was definitely alcoholic dependency (although he also admitted that failing to accomplish some _compositional_ goal that day would have him turning the issue in his mind over and over that night). He probably used drinking to fall asleep, bad idea! And then when he stopped drinking so much it got worse because of withdrawal. Just a big mess not worth messing around with.

Avoid alcohol late at night! Be sober when you fall asleep.


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## Pugg

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Yes, alcohol does make one sleepy... but wake up later very groggy and dehydrated.
> 
> Someone dear to me had a chronic insomnia problem for years and years (made him look rather dour sometimes... ), and I think the reason for it was definitely alcoholic dependency (although he also admitted that failing to accomplish some _compositional_ goal that day would have him turning the issue in his mind over and over that night). He probably used drinking to fall asleep, bad idea! And then when he stopped drinking so much it got worse because of withdrawal. Just a big mess not worth messing around with.
> 
> Avoid alcohol late at night! Be sober when you fall asleep.


Avoid coffee and strong tea also, just take a sip of water.


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## Abraham Lincoln

Try listening to Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words?


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## Itullian

Get up early. .................


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## Pugg

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Try listening to Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words?


How about Bach: Goldberg Variations.


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## clavichorder

I've had it really badly, especially these past few weeks. One night on, one night off. On the nights off(meaning poor sleep) I find that in this current state of mind and medications, I can barely function the next day, unless something is just way off about my attitude and I could endure it but don't make enough effort. I sometimes take a non addictive sleep aid called trazodone, which I'm not sure if it helps or not. I'm going to try cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. Getting exercise and meditation seems to help me some.


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## znapschatz

A steady income works for me.


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## TxllxT

The air flow is important, the mattress: we happen to love latex rubber mattresses with ventilation holes in it. They keep cool, so your body just is able to relax without the stress of getting somehow heated up unpleasantly. Also darkness and sound influence one's sleep.


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## SixFootScowl

clavichorder said:


> I've had it really badly, especially these past few weeks. One night on, one night off. On the nights off(meaning poor sleep) I find that in this current state of mind and medications, I can barely function the next day, unless something is just way off about my attitude and I could endure it but don't make enough effort. I sometimes take a non addictive sleep aid called trazodone, which I'm not sure if it helps or not. I'm going to try cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. Getting exercise and meditation seems to help me some.


I got my sleep treatment from http://brainlifecenter.com/
They treat a lot of other things some associated with sleep.
At the bottom of this page is a map of all the locations where this treatment can be had:
https://brainstatetech.com/
It seems to have helped me a lot as I have only had one bad night's sleep since about March 30th.


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## clavichorder

Hmmm, I tend to be skeptical of things that claim so many things as they are claiming. It worked for you? I wonder if it can help get me out of my anhedonic, creativity poor slump.


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## SixFootScowl

clavichorder said:


> Hmmm, I tend to be skeptical of things that claim so many things as they are claiming. It worked for you? I wonder if it can help get me out of my anhedonic, creativity poor slump.


Can go in for an initial assessment which as I recall was $150 normal price, but they run specials and I got it for $30.


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## mtmailey

Going for a long walk can make you tired which in turn get you sleep.Look online for herbal teas that help with sleep.Also no drinking to much coffee will keep you up.


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## Couchie

- Blackout curtains for a pitch-black bedroom. Eliminate all sources of artificial light in this space
- Avoid using the bedroom for activities other than sleeping. Never put a TV in your bedroom. Read before bed in the living room in a warm comfy housecoat with some herbal tea.
- Nightlights in the bathroom/hallways for late night visits without turning on the light
- Use warm, dimmed light bulbs in the rooms you occupy before bed
- Use blue light filters on smartphone and computers if you use them after sunset
- The lack of harsh "daylight" lighting should stimulate your body to produce melatonin signalling time to sleep. You can also supplement melatonin before bed directly.


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## SixFootScowl

Couchie said:


> - Blackout curtains for a pitch-black bedroom. Eliminate all sources of artificial light in this space
> - Avoid using the bedroom for activities other than sleeping. Never put a TV in your bedroom. Read before bed in the living room in a warm comfy housecoat with some herbal tea.
> - Nightlights in the bathroom/hallways for late night visits without turning on the light
> - Use warm, dimmed light bulbs in the rooms you occupy before bed
> - Use blue light filters on smartphone and computers if you use them after sunset
> - The lack of harsh "daylight" lighting should stimulate your body to produce melatonin signalling time to sleep. You can also supplement melatonin before bed directly.


All good. I wear yellow filter glasses to watch videos in the evening as they block the light waves that hinder melatonin. Some types of lights are worse than others. You also can adjust your computer screen for a cool shading which is supposed to be better. While I haven't gone to this, there is a company that helps your computer screen optimize light https://iristech.co/
Their byline is "Software for eye protection, health and productivity."


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## JeffD

I keep a fan going, on low, in the room. Not blowing on me, but just blowing, keeping the air moving so I am not lying in a dead spot. And also the sound of the fan as a white noise generator, kind of blocks out house creeks and critters crunching through the woods outside.


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## Pugg

I must be very fortunate, If my head reaches the pillow......


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## Dan Ante

Pugg said:


> I must be very fortunate, If my head reaches the pillow......


Me as well...............


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> I must be very fortunate, If my head reaches the pillow......


My son is like that. I usually like to cogitate on something when I lie down and typically I never get very far but am asleep, but there are times it takes longer and in 2016 I did have a lot of insomnia, where I could not sleep for hours. It is horrible.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> My son is like that. I usually like to cogitate on something when I lie down and typically I never get very far but am asleep, but there are times it takes longer and in 2016 I did have a lot of insomnia, where I could not sleep for hours. It is horrible.


I do try reading sometimes, but my eyes just won't have it....


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> I do try reading sometimes, but my eyes just won't have it....


Yeah, I used to do that, but found out one cannot sit in the evening and stay awake for long, and if you lie down to read it is a very brief reading session. When you have to re-read the same paragraph several times or the book slips out of your hands, you know it is time to sleep.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Ah, the shakespearean malady and me have a long relationship, the thing wants to crow me into the night away from reality.


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## T Son of Ander

I usually have no problem falling asleep. I go through phases, though, where I wake up in 3 or 4 hours and can't get back to sleep. I can't find any real reason for it, like stress. Very little stress in my life, honestly. I will try some of the things people have suggested.


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## clavichorder

I recently purchased two books for helping treat insomnia, cognitive behavioral books. Lately my pattern has been one night of 7 to 8 hours, and then one night where I lie in bed most of the night and get a few winks in the early morning, alternating. According to "The Insomnia Workbook", one technique is to reduce the amount of time that you lie in bed, so it reprograms your subconscious brain only view the bed as being for sleep. I just started using the technique two nights ago, and sleep on my off night last night, was better with about 5 and a half hours. I set my bedtime for 11 PM and my alarm for 7 PM and I'm following it religiously, giving me 8 hours in bed. This is not as extreme as what the workbook would have me do, which sounded too miserable to me. It wanted me to get an average of my hours spent sleeping(which for me was around 5 and a half with the on off) and then mark that out as the amount of time I spend in bed. I didn't want to do less than 6 hours, although maybe that is the way. 

I have started to eat bananas when I wake up in the night. Bananas contain tryptophan as does milk, which is good for sleep. Sometimes the mere act of getting up and eating a banana seems to have helped me get back to sleep, which any chemical within it did the trick or not. They often tell you to get up in the night when you are lying there for too long, which I find extremely hard to do.

My psychiatric nurse prescribed some lunesta for me after trying various medications that aren't really sleep aids but are said to help(trazodone, gabapentin, mirtazapine). I only took it once, and it didn't work at all. I was expected to feel sleepy not long after taking it, but merely lied in bed in a slightly vaguer state of mind than I would have without any drug. I had an awful day the next day, with grogginess on top of sleep deprivation. Maybe that's a good thing that it didn't work, because I feel like I might have more luck with CBT techniques in my books.

I have also read that a serotonin deficiency which can lead to depression, can also lead to insomnia and anxiety. I have much more of the latter two than depression. I used to have an SSRI(antidepressant) as a part of my regular medication regimen but ever since I was possibly misdiagnosed with a bipolar type condition by my former psychiatrist, I haven't been allowed to take a potentially mania inducing pill, never mind that I tolerated it very well in the past. Fired that psychiatrist and this new one has just given me a prescription for Zoloft, which is supposed to have a particularly good effect on anxiety. Many people say that SSRIs help them sleep, and I would imagine they would especially if they are treating a likely main source of insomnia, serotonin deficiency.


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## SixFootScowl

Here is something on insomnia:

https://drcarolyndean.com/2012/12/magnesium-makes-me-sleep/

https://drcarolyndeanlive.com/2019/...may-cause-nighttime-distress-dr-carolyn-dean/

Just remember most OTC magnesium is more laxitive than supplement as it is not absorbed But Dr. Dean makes a highly absorbable magnesium you can get at www.rnareset.com

Her magnesium has 95% cured my severe cramps and 25-years of erratic heartbeat. I am sold.


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## Bulldog

Smoking pot has worked for everyone I know that has sleeping issues.


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## DaveM

To the rescue...2+ years later!


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## starthrower

Bulldog said:


> Smoking pot has worked for everyone I know that has sleeping issues.


It's cheaper to have a glass of wine or beer or two. My problem is waking up, not getting to sleep.


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## Luchesi

When I keep a sleep journal I can see where my problem is.


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## Bulldog

starthrower said:


> It's cheaper to have a glass of wine or beer or two.


It all depends on one's drug of choice.


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## Luchesi

Bulldog said:


> It all depends on one's drug of choice.


Oh well.. you're in ABQ


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## Couchie

I take Ambien, less of a hangover than alcohol


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## philoctetes

Did anybody mention melatonin? Now improved with special additives!!!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-huffpost-readers-are-buying-this-week_l_5d826991e4b070d468c5d4ac









Other advice: avoid sugar and super-sweet alcohol (e.g. rum)


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## philoctetes

starthrower said:


> It's cheaper to have a glass of wine or beer or two. My problem is waking up, not getting to sleep.


Actually, pot is more affordable than alcohol in CA now, unless one drinks PBR and 2-buck Chuck


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## joen_cph

Not me, but a problem for a close relative for years. Does anyone know of any good experiences with hypnosis - one of the few, relatively undramatic options not tried yet?


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## Merl

I occasionally suffer from a bit of insomnia but after a few rough nights I tend to sleep like a baby for a week or so. Stress is the biggest cause of my insomnia. My current working environment is horrific.


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## Jacck

joen_cph said:


> Not me, but a problem for a close relative for years. Does anyone know of any good experiences with hypnosis - one of the few, relatively undramatic options not tried yet?


I have no experience with someone else hypnotizing you, but I tried self-hypnosis in the past, and I am pretty sure you could use it for sleep induction. It starts with muscle relaxation first. And the more you practice it, the better and faster you can relax. Or you can try one of the ASMR videos or hypnosis videos on youtube, there are plenty. Just to not try the hands free orgasm hypnosis


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## joen_cph

Jacck said:


> I have no experience with someone else hypnotizing you, but I tried self-hypnosis in the past, and I am pretty sure you could use it for sleep induction. It starts with muscle relaxation first. And the more you practice it, the better and faster you can relax. Or you can try one of the ASMR videos or hypnosis videos on youtube, there are plenty. Just to not try the hands free orgasm hypnosis


Thanks. There are quite a few hypnosis therapists advertizing in Copenhagen, also claiming a good success rate for curing insomnia, so that's what I/we've thought about. There's a well-known method used by elite soldiers which reminds of self-hypnosis, it seems to be a bit along the lines you describe, but I think it was tried, though maybe not in the most consequent way.


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## Jacck

joen_cph said:


> Thanks. There are quite a few hypnosis therapists advertizing in Copenhagen, also claiming a good success rate for curing insomnia, so that's what I/we've thought about. There's a well-known method used by elite soldiers which reminds of self-hypnosis, it seems to be a bit along the lines you describe, but I think it was tried, though maybe not in the most consequent way.


you have to invest some time into learning it. It is similar to Autogenic Training. And those people with the most mental/bodily tension have the most difficulty learning it. But it is probably worth it.


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## joen_cph

Psychological stress and age class might be a problem.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Glazunov had insomnia off and on his entire life (maybe that's why he's sometimes gloomy in his pictures, think on that). He blamed his ability to recall music as one of his worst causes. If he composed music and succeeded in his goal for the day, he was okay, but if he didn't do what he wanted, he would stay up all night trying to work it out in his head. Earworms must be a difficult issue for people with audio memory like he had. It resulted in him using alcohol to fall asleep at night, not good at all.


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## Ingélou

Despite all the worries about Taggart's health & buying a house, I'm sleeping a bit better here in York.

Maybe because of?

1. I get lots of *exercise* walking about York city centre. (Driving is too difficult.)

2. I am going to bed more or less *at ten each night, when I feel tired*.

3. When I get up in the night for the loo - as I do about 3 times - I don't put the light on in my bedroom because there's enough light from the street to be able to get to the door. I put the light on in the hall etc - but this is so that *I don't see what time it is*. If I don't get back to sleep straight away, I therefore don't know how long I've been awake and can't fret about it.

4. If I wake up from *a dream*, I try to remember some details, and merge back into it again.

5. Sometimes it helps if I take *a short word* like 'restful' and see how many words I can make from it. This is a game that Taggart & I play all the time so for me, it is routine - though it might make somebody else feel more wakeful.

6. If I know that I've been awake for a while, I say to myself, 'Okay - you can't sleep, but you can *rest*, and they say that rest is almost as good as sleep'. This can do the trick, and the next I know I'm waking from slumber.


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## atsizat

I can sleep myself. At times 12 hours.


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## Luchesi

For pianists who like to improvise try to visualize

Cmajor#11 13

C#major#11 13

Dmajor#11 13

And so on... see how far you get.


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## Strange Magic

If I find myself awake at 2-3-4 in the morning, which I often do, I medicinally take a slice of rye toast, with butter and a bit of jam, washed down with a half-glass of milk. Sleep usually follows.


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## haydnguy

I am happy to report my insomnia has greatly diminished. In a given 24-hour period I am able to get 6-7 hours of sleep which is a HUGE improvement. I'm still not able to get my sleep cycle leveled off so that I am sleeping at night. (Thus my appearance on TC at all hours.)

My problem was, for the most part, anxiety. Two things changed. My wife changed her work schedule so we have time together now. Also, I discontinued some medicine that I was taking. After these two things changed my sleep returned.


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## Red Terror

I try to stick to a regular schedule, and that has helped some. Failing that, I take clonazepam.


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## mrdoc

Dan Ante said:


> An infallible fix for insomnia = never go to bed sober.


My suggestion as well it always works.
btw why are you not listed on members ??


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