# Early Composers/Music?



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

What are the earliest composers that you know of? Earliest music that is perhaps by an anonymous source? I'm facinated by the idea of the origin of music and composition. Music in it's rawest form. If you know of any cavemen who were composing with ice sculptures or cave drawings for their percussion ensembles then that would be perfect, but I'll settle for medieval or Renaissance composers if that's the earliest that you know of. Thanks in advance


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Seikilos Epitaph: "oldest surviving example of a complete musical composition, including musical notation, from anywhere in the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> ... I'm facinated by the idea of the origin of music and composition. Music in it's rawest form...


This Wikipedia article has probably the earliest known composers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medieval_composers.

You'll struggle to find recordings of most of these guys - and I am not sure how speculative some of the inclusions in the list are.

There's nothing raw about a lot of this stuff, though.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Dodecaplex said:


> Seikilos Epitaph: "oldest surviving example of a complete musical composition, including musical notation, from anywhere in the world."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph


Thanks man, I'll check it out.


Jeremy Marchant said:


> This Wikipedia article has probably the earliest known composers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medieval_composers.
> 
> You'll struggle to find recordings of most of these guys - and I am not sure how speculative some of the inclusions in the list are.
> 
> There's nothing raw about a lot of this stuff, though.


Thanks this looks good.

Well, we may have slightly differing ideas about what "raw" might mean in terms of music.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

I like this:


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)




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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

For me, early music is most interesting when polyphonic...

*Pérotin* (fl. c. 1200) was one of the first composers to write polyphonic music (called "organa").






*Guillaume de Machaut* (c. 1300-1377) composed the first polyphonic mass, _La Messe de Nostre Dame_.






Prior to that, there was Gregorian chant. This is perhaps the most popular example:






I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chip in for Ancient and Pre-historic music, Egyptian lyre style and whatnot.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Philip said:


> *Guillaume de Machaut* (c. 1300-1377) composed the first polyphonic mass, _La Messe de Nostre Dame_.


This one is incredible.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Renaissance is a good middle ground for vocal music; more intricate than Medieval, without the bells and whistles of Baroque.

Spem In Alium Thomas Tallis





William Byrd "Agnus Dei - Mass for five voices" 





Giovanni Gabrieli - Jubilate Deo


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

Dodecaplex said:


> Seikilos Epitaph: "oldest surviving example of a complete musical composition, including musical notation, from anywhere in the world."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph


Music from Greece in this CD
You can listen a bit of each track.
However, as far as I know, musicologists think it is impossible to know how that music sounded.

Let's go to caves:



> The 'Petit Sorcier á l'Arc Musical' in the Cave of the Trois-Frères in Ariège, southwestern France, may be the earliest pictographic representation of a musical bow. A man, appearing to be dressed up in animal skins, seems to be playing an instrument protruding from his mouth. It is debated whether or not the man is playing a bow, or some kind of wind instrument, or rather is simply carrying a hunting bow.3 The cave paintings are thought to date back 14,000 years


http://webpub.allegheny.edu/dept/envisci/ESInfo/comps/phinnen/website (history of the guitar).html


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

Philip said:


> Renaissance is a good middle ground for vocal music; more intricate than Medieval, without the bells and whistles of Baroque.


Yes, but I like so much that part of the history when polyphony was invented, exploring those 5th and 4th intervals. Perotin and Leonin are so fascinating.

A piece I like: Imperayritz de la ciutat joyosa - Llibre Vermell de Montserrat (S. XIV), when they start to sing (1:23).


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## humanbean (Mar 5, 2011)

sah said:


> Yes, but I like so much that part of the history when polyphony was invented, exploring those 5th and 4th intervals. Perotin and Leonin are so fascinating.


I agree. While renaissance music is typically more technical and lyrical, I actually find the majority of medieval polyphony more colorful and original than much of the well-known renaissance music. I think it has to do with the fact that back in those days, major composers were still experimenting with harmony whereas in the renaissance, music was more established by the time Josquin, and then Palestrina came around.


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

One of the most famous chants of the Orthodox Church is this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathist. It was composed between the 7th and 8th century in the Byzantine Empire. Gregorian chants and Orthodox chants are sometimes very similar.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I read a news article that said that some dinosaurs made musical sounds to communicate with each other. Try to go earlier than that!!


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Stargazer said:


> I read a news article that said that some dinosaurs made musical sounds to communicate with each other. Try to go earlier than that!!


The mathematics which govern the universe made music billions of years before...


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

Stargazer said:


> I read a news article that said that some dinosaurs made musical sounds to communicate with each other. Try to go earlier than that!!


If I don't hear, I don't believe.


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

Dimboukas said:


> One of the most famous chants of the Orthodox Church is this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathist. It was composed between the 7th and 8th century in the Byzantine Empire. Gregorian chants and Orthodox chants are sometimes very similar.


Kalispera. There are some Romanians where I live, and they have their own Orthodox masses. I went to one of them and I liked it because they sang some Orthodox chants. Unfortunately, the Catholic masses got rid of Gregorian chants long time ago.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

sah said:


> Kalispera. There are some Romanians where I live, and they have their own Orthodox masses. I went to one of them and I liked it because they sang some Orthodox chants.* Unfortunately, the Catholic masses got rid of Gregorian chants long time ago*.


This is true. I'm Catholic and it pains me that we used to have such incredible trancendental music for our masses and now it's gone all mainstream like everything else.


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## humanbean (Mar 5, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> This is true. I'm Catholic and it pains me that we used to have such incredible trancendental music for our masses and now it's gone all mainstream like everything else.


Yes, much in the same way Protestantism has - for the most part - done away with the excellent old hymns of the reformation and replaced them with that hideous Gospel and Christian Contemporary *****.


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