# SS 22.06.18 - Dvorak #4



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening! 
_*
*_For your listening pleasure this weekend:*

Antonin Dvorak** (1841 - 1904)*

Symphony No. 4 in D minor, Op. 13, B. 41

1. Allegro
2. Andante sostenuto e molto cantabile
3. Scherzo
4. Finale: Allegro con brio

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Another weekend is upon us and another Symphony is up for your listening enjoyment. This weekend Czech composer Antonin Dvorak makes his return with his Fourth Symphony. I always love hearing Dvorak's symphonies so I'm happy to give this one a spin this weekend. I hope everyone else can join in too!

I'll be listening too:







Vaclav Neumann/Czech Philharmonic Orchestra


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I'll listen to the new Belohlavek recording on Decca. This is not as good a symphony as Dvorak's later ones, it's still a bit (!) Wagner derived. But I think it's actually a very fine piece in its own right, a really good Scherzo!


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I shall go with this version, not everyone's favourite but I greatly enjoy Jarvi with Dvorák


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I'll listen to Kertesz here.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Neumann here also


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

D Smith said:


> I'll listen to Kertesz here.


Kertesz for me too.


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## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

Here's a bit of an oddball recording

Zdenek Macal and the Milwaukee Symphony on Koss.

Haven't heard it in years;


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Possibly Serebrier with the Bournemouth S.O. to me.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Kertesz for me too.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Neumann for my listening.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Neumann (analogue) is my favourite 4th but Rowicki does it brilliantly too. Ive been re-evaluating Rowicki's Dvorak cycle over the past month. Always liked it a lot but never thought it was the real deal until I sat and listened properly. Symphonies 1-7 are uniformly excellent but 3-6 are very special. Rowicki's 5th is a desert island disc for me. Whilst the 4th is nowhere near as good a symphony as the 5th. it's still got some great moments and Rowicki really brings out the colour of the score. A terrific recording for its age.


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

I'll add this one performed by the Slovak Philharmonic Orchestra, directed by Stephen Gunzenhauser.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Having listened to Kertesz with LSO in this Symphony I remain unconvinced by the piece. 
The third and fifth Symphonies are more to my liking - and of course the last four when Dvorak really kicked on in his Symphonic writing.

View attachment 104954


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Haydn man said:


> View attachment 104931
> 
> I shall go with this version, not everyone's favourite but I greatly enjoy Jarvi with Dvorák


The same here, both for the Cd and the opinion.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If I remember correctly there is a folk melody somewhere in this symphony which reappeared in one of the _Slavonic Dances_ sets. No.4 still has an Wagnerian-ish influence running through it as others have mentioned, but Dvořák stamps much more of his own recognisable personality onto this symphony than on the previous three, which I tend to regard as 'apprentice' works.

I'll actually be listening to this tomorrow, as I'm preoccupied with opera today.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Kertesz today.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

D Smith said:


> I'll listen to Kertesz here.


Same here...fine recording. Dvorak #4 should be a repertoire staple...


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

After relistening to this I have to agree with some of the other posters. While it is a good work, it just doesn't sound much like Dvorak, except in places. Afterwards, I put on his Symphony No. 5 and you could tell from the first few bars it was written by Dvorak.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> If I remember correctly there is a folk melody somewhere in this symphony which reappeared in one of the _Slavonic Dances_ sets. No.4 still has an Wagnerian-ish influence running through it as others have mentioned, but Dvořák stamps much more of his own recognisable personality onto this symphony than on the previous three, which I tend to regard as 'apprentice' works.
> 
> I'll actually be listening to this tomorrow, as I'm preoccupied with opera today.


Your mentioning that got me annoyed, because I couldn't for the life of me think which Slavonic Dance it comes up again in.

It's the Scherzo, But it's not a Slavonic Dance, but the last piece from the Piano Duo piece Ze Šumavy Op.68. Yes, I did look it up!!!

Probably why you thought it was a Slavonic Dance, the four-handed piano connection?


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

realdealblues said:


> Another weekend is upon us and another Symphony is up for your listening enjoyment. This weekend Czech composer Antonin Dvorak makes his return with his Fourth Symphony. I always love hearing Dvorak's symphonies so I'm happy to give this one a spin this weekend. I hope everyone else can join in too!
> 
> I'll be listening too:
> View attachment 104930
> ...


Ditto this recording for me too, Vaclav Neumann is a fantastic Dvorak-ian and my introduction to Dvorak's Symphonies 1-8. I haven't listened to Dvorak's Symphonies for a while so this will be really interesting.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Dvorak's colorful and charming melodies abound especially in this symphony's first and second movements. I don't find as involving the composer's last two movements. Nonetheless, I feel Kertesz does an excellent job with what he is given. Symphonies 8,7,9 and 5--in that order--pretty much remain my favorites.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I’d never heard this symphony. It’s the usual 4 movements in standard form, lasting 41 minutes (Neumann’s recording),

The first movement opens with an (over?) dramatic 1st minor-key theme, followed by a flowing diatonic 2nd theme in the major. The closing theme is martial, trumpet-and-drum sort of stuff. Beyond that, it was hard for me to follow the form, but much is made of that 2nd theme, possibly over-milking it Schubert-style.

The second is the slow movement, with the main theme in the horns. Sounds like Brahms with some Wagner harmonies. It all seems a bit amorphous. There’s a more emphatic passage about midway with some obvious counterpoint. Nice listening but nothing I could hang my hat on.

The third is the scherzo, in bouncy triple time with welcome energy and nice tunes. The central part is an interesting and somewhat outsized trio. The scherzo repeats as usual.

The fourth movement, the finale, opens with a propulsive minor-key main theme. It’s in two short halves, first up and then down, like Brahms. It’s followed by a soft flowing major-key 2nd theme (just like the first movement). In the working out both themes are developed but without much interaction. In the reprise, the 2nd theme gets the grand treatment. Then brass choirs peal out the 1st theme loudly, probably more grandiosely than it deserves. This closes the work.

While this symphony is by no means bad, I’d say that it falls short of his later efforts in several areas: thematic interest, thematic development, dramatic arc, structural clarity, and overall coherence.

BTW I see that Dvorak offered this symphony, and his 3rd as well, to a committee of critics in his quest for a academic scholarship that would enable him to devote himself full-time to composing. The committee wrote, “…an unquestionable talent…still seeking its way in a formless and unbridled manner.” Sounds about right. He did get the scholarship, though.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

His 3rd is much better than the 4th.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Robert Pickett said:


> Your mentioning that got me annoyed, because I couldn't for the life of me think which Slavonic Dance it comes up again in.
> 
> It's the Scherzo, But it's not a Slavonic Dance, but the last piece from the Piano Duo piece Ze Šumavy Op.68. Yes, I did look it up!!!
> 
> _Probably why you thought it was a Slavonic Dance, the four-handed piano connection?_


Yes, it has to be either that or just my shocking memory. Good work, Robert.


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

I have been busy, so I didn't get to it until today. I listened to this symphony and then to No. 7, both performed by Berlin Philharmonic/Kubelik. The comparison of Dvorak's two D Minor symphonies is interesting. No. 4 is very good and is enjoyable from beginning to end, but it doesn't have that extra intangible "spark" that would make it a masterpiece. Hints of Dvorak's mature style are certainly present, but the unique voice of his later works isn't yet fully formed. Listening to No. 7 immediately afterwards made No. 4 recede into the background. Perhaps if No. 7 is Dvorak's "Great" D Minor symphony, then No. 4 is the "Little" D Minor symphony - a tantalizing prelude to the greatness that was to come.


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