# Schoenberg missed a trick.



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

I like 12 tone music.... but Schoenberg really missed out. If you divide the scale into 13 equal tones instead of 12 you get some REAL strange stuff coming out. I rearranged the 12 frets on a guitar to experiment. Put in 13 and it gets crazy. Schoenberg was good, but my system is better. I call it 'Equal untemprement' or 'serialism plus one'.... it is like infinity plus one.... you can't get any better.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

But how does the music sound? Does it actually sound better than Schoenberg's?


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

The little known Hungarian composer Bakkez Duzan got there before you, I'm afraid.


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

I've done it with 14 as well.... infinity plus two.... did Duzan do that.... I think not


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

HenryPenfold said:


> The little known Hungarian composer Bakkez Duzan got there before you, I'm afraid.


:lol::lol::lol::tiphat:


----------



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

It seems curious to me that Schoenberg et al wouldn't more deeply explore other, less "nice" l equal temperament systems. If the objective was to emancipate dissonance, why adhere to a temperament which emphasizes consonance? Of course performability is one possible concern for all you pragmatists out there, but I think there's more to it than that. I think consonance, or at least having varying levels of dissonance, is an important concept in 12-tone music that Schoenberg wished to explore through a different lens if you will rather than do away with completely.

But this is just a theory. Does anyone have any insight or input?


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> But how does the music sound? Does it actually sound better than Schoenberg's?


It sounds absolutely terrible at the moment. I moved on to a division of 14 but that didn't help. I'm going to try a division of 15 next, that might do it but I need a cool name for it to work properly. "Scientific 15th scale" was my first choice... but I'm open to any suggestions... there is only so much refretting a Fender Telecaster will take....


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> It seems curious to me that Schoenberg et al wouldn't more deeply explore other, less "nice" l equal temperament systems. If the objective was to emancipate dissonance, why adhere to a temperament which emphasizes consonance? Of course performability is one possible concern for all you pragmatists out there, but I think there's more to it than that. I think consonance, or at least having varying levels of dissonance, is an important concept in 12-tone music that Schoenberg wished to explore through a different lens if you will rather than do away with completely.
> 
> But this is just a theory. Does anyone have any insight or input?


Yup, Schoenberg never wanted to invent a new system of notes. He wanted to take what was already there. He took a poem with the words "air from another planet" and set to music. Those words kind have gotten associated with his music, probably more than the original poem and writer.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

HenryPenfold said:


> The little known Hungarian composer Bakkez Duzan got there before you, I'm afraid.


LOL!! good one!!


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

13-and-a-half tones is better than this silly 13 tones droll!


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Don't mention anything as 'not serious' as 13 and a half tones to the moderators.... they straightforwardly reject all humour when discussing classical music.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

why stop at 13.5......


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Haba:





Wyshnegradsky:


----------



## BabyGiraffe (Feb 24, 2017)

John Lenin said:


> It sounds absolutely terrible at the moment. I moved on to a division of 14 but that didn't help. I'm going to try a division of 15 next, that might do it but I need a cool name for it to work properly. "Scientific 15th scale" was my first choice... but I'm open to any suggestions... there is only so much refretting a Fender Telecaster will take....


15 is semi-decent, 19 is good.
15 and a half is good, it's basically 15 or 16 note scale from 31 equal.
You can also try half of 26 or 24 by detuning some strings, if you have 12 or 13 notes per octave guitar.


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

My next idea is to look at divisions that are not musically derived. Dividing the scale by a y=nx+ c equation or maybe divisions based on the generation of random numbers ....


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

the funny thing is that Schoenberg was very superstition and scared to death by the number 13 (he also died on the day 13)


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

norman bates said:


> the funny thing is that Schoenberg was very superstition and scared to death by the number 13 (he also died on the day 13)


Yep, he suffered from Triskaidekaphobi: fear or avoidance of the number 13.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

norman bates said:


> the funny thing is that Schoenberg was very superstition and scared to death by the number 13 (he also died on the day 13)


It's also funny the symphonists were more scared of the number 9 than 13


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> It's also funny the symphonists were more scared of the number 9 than 13


Finnish composer Leif Segerstam fears no number...he has composed 342 symphonies as of September 2020.

He makes Alan Hovhaness look like a slacker.

What Segerstam should fear are carbohydrates.


----------



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

I embrace the number 666


----------

