# What would you surmize is the most-oft THEME used in progressive rock lyrics?



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Aye.
Discuss.
Get it on.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Make that: "What would you surmise is the THEME most-oft used in Progressive Rock lyric?"


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

And before you even start...no, it is not:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Deacon said:


> And before you even start...no, it is not:


Deacon, you're a bit of a troll, aren't you? I've never encountered any lyrics dealing with elves or unicorns, even though people like to joke about it. Maybe too many prog rock fans ignore the lyrics or have dismal reading comprehension skills. It's pretty obvious that the lyrical themes among various bands are highly diverse, and address many different topics. Anderson's lyrics deal with spirituality and meditation among other things.

You'll find many Jethro Tull songs are inspired by pagan culture and rituals, as well as a rejection of christian faith. And you can find this skepticism in the lyrics of ELP. And lots of soul searching and spiritual quest in the lyrics of Kerry Livgren from Kansas. Gentle Giant also wrote interesting lyrics. Some of the early songs inspired by French literature. And I suppose there is some poetry, wordplay, and a cryptic nature to many of the lyrics so as not to make them too straightforward and pedestrian in nature.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

So you say Religion is an over-riding theme in prog.
The Deacon will grant you that, but I think there are two other themes that beat this (regarding frequency).


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Deacon said:


> So you say Religion is an over-riding theme in prog.
> The Deacon will grant you that, but I think there are two other themes that beat this (regarding frequency).


Spirituality and higher consciousness rather than religion in the case of Jon Anderson. To quote the opening line from Awaken, "high vibration go on, to the sun oh let my heart dreaming." I haven't really analyzed the lyrics of many other bands. And of course prog bands haven't completely avoided love songs either. Or the end of a love affair in the case of ELP's Trilogy.

I would like to take a look at the lyrics of some of the other interesting bands such as Van Der Graaf Generator, or King Crimson. I'm more familiar with Zappa, and Mike Keneally.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is a neat little summary of prog rock, I thought.

https://astrofella.wordpress.com/20...ers-a-history-of-progressive-rock-paul-stump/


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Nice article, but to get back to TO THE POINT OF MY THREAD, what theme is most incorporated in prog lyric?

The article above mentions themes of spirituality, "alternative lifestyle", "soft utopianism of the hippies".... but I claim there are two themes way more prevalent in prog lyric than any of these.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't buy the "college educated" demographic stat for prog listeners. My friends and I were all listening to these bands long before college age. And the hippies were into the Grateful Dead, and Gong. And why is Pink Floyd always lumped in with prog bands? And the musical "dead end" analogy? It was the record companies and smug critics that killed it.

Okay, back to the lyrics...


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Lotta the early prog bands (proto & especially heavy proggers) came from the Philistine,uneducated , blue-collar "norf". I think Jon Anderson was one.
..............

Ooooppps... I see. You are talking about the listeners, not the bands themselves.


Aye, but university/college venues were often the main for these bands in UK (and Canada).
(But that is not saying the audience at these concerts were from said universities.)


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> Nice article, but to get back to TO THE POINT OF MY THREAD, what theme is most incorporated in prog lyric?
> 
> The article above mentions themes of spirituality, "alternative lifestyle", "soft utopianism of the hippies".... but I claim there are *two themes way more prevalent in prog lyric than any of these*.


Well, what do you claim they are? It's been days and you've yet to contribute anything substantive to a thread you started.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I would like to take a look at the lyrics of some of the other interesting bands such as Van Der Graaf Generator, or King Crimson. I'm more familiar with Zappa, and Mike Keneally.


How about we crowd source it? I'll do King Crimson.

The Sinfield era (In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon, Lizard, Islands):

In the Court
"Schizoid man" - The psychopathic inhumanity of man to man.
"I Talk to the Wind" - Nonconformity, alienation.
"Epitaph:" - Living in the shadow of species extermination.
"Moonchild" - Elves 'n' Stuff 
"In the Court of the Crimson King" - This one is complicated. On the surface it seems to reflect a general prog theme of utopian or historically exotic settings. But this is just a cover for what seems to be an underlying insider allegory about the band itself. Note particularly the Yellow Jester who "does not play but gently pulls the strings" and a corresponding allusion to same in "The Great Deceiver" (1974), written by Richard Palmer-James: "Once had a friend with a cloven foot, Once he called the tune in a chequered suit."

In the Wake
New themes here: 
"Pictures of a City" - A nightmare of urban life
"Cadence and Cascade" - A saga of two groupies and a hotel room.
"Cat Food" - Insanity and dietary adventures

Lizard - Here things get interesting
"Cirkus" - The birth and socialization of an unidentified subject into a society on the verge of collapse.
"Indoor Games" - Social climbing and one-upmanship.
"Happy Family" - The Beatles
"Lady of the Dancing Water" - a sappy love song
Lizard - As with all of Sinfield's allegories, it's not what it seems. All of the medieval imagery and allusions obscure a universal parable about transgression and retribution, most of which is communicated in musical terms. The lyrics provide the programs for programmatic instrumental music.

Islands 
"Formentera Lady" - Love on a tropical island, but the lyric's real function is to provide a context for "Sailor's Tale," a programmatic work based on scenes from the Odyssey (the Sirens, Scylla, a maelstrom unleashed by Helios, and Charybdis.
"The Letters" - A melodrama of marital infidelity and its consequences.
"Ladies of the Road" - Groupies and their despoiling.
"Islands" - The oneness of humanity? Owes a big debt to Dylan Thomas's "Ears in turrets hear"

I'll stop and do the Palmer-James era in another post. So far, no obvious or consistent themes.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

I'm glad you stopped at Lizard because -even though he is not mentioned in the lyrics - the first 4 Crimbo lps are linked by the story of Holy Roman Emperor, Fredrik II . There is deep, deep analysis of Sinfield's lyrics at souponsea website. Be prepared for lots of reading. (You will learn what "stake a lizard by the throat" means.)


.....

The two themes?

I am waiting for someone to guess.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Okay.
The two themes most utilized in Progressive Rock are.......

this







and this


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)




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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

"Silly human race"


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Wot?

Wot?

Ehhhhh?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> I'm glad you stopped at Lizard because -even though he is not mentioned in the lyrics - the first 4 Crimbo lps are linked by the story of Ludwig of - I believe - Austria. There is deep, deep analysis of Sinfield's lyrics at souponsea website. Be prepared for lots of reading. (You will learn what "stake a lizard by the throat" means.)
> 
> .....
> 
> ...


I've looked at that website, before you dredged it up.  Mostly nonsense.

So, now that you have hinted - vaguely - at themes for prog rock, would you like to provide support with, for example, lyrics?


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

The two most-used themes in prog are WAR and DEATH


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

The ProgMasterman has spoken!


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

If someone dares challenge me on this, be prepared to do battle.

For every single example on your part, I will do TWO.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Ah, you're a GURU-with-no-following, specializing in WAR and DEATH.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Casebearer said:


> Ah, you're a GURU-with-no-following, specializing in WAR and DEATH.


Perhaps Pavlov, with salivating dogs. Or B.F. Skinner, with pecking pigeons. Or the Pied Piper, methinks?


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)




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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

With little effort and looking at only a few bands, I found 35 prog tunes on the theme of sex/love. When and if you give me 70 on either war or death, I might actually make an effort and find you a few more. And note that mere mentions don't count. It has to be the theme of the lyric.

Love and Sex: 
Cadence and Cascade, Ladies of the Road, Book of Saturday, Formentera Lady, The Letters, Two Hands, Matte Kudesai, Heartbeat, Three of a Perfect Pair, The Power to Believe I, Inner Garden, Counting out Time, She Shudders, Sossity, Wond’ring Aloud, Still You Turn Me on, From the Beginning, Trilogy, Walking on Air, Dirty Love, Camarillo Brillo, Baby Take Your Teeth Out, Broken Hearts are for ********, Crew ****, Dinah-Moe Hum, Easy Meat, Punky’s Whips, Zombie Woof, Jewish Princess, Catholic Girls


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

EdwardBast, I admire your work ethic and industry :tiphat:.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Those Zappa tunes are not prog, but very well......


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

War:

OLD MAN & SEA -jingoism
HENRY COW - war
TOMITA (and many others like Earthband,etc) -Mars
CITADEL OF CYNOSURE - dungeon
STRAY - SON OF THE FATHER
fad gadget -under the flag
YES - GATESof delerium
WEB - east meets west
-battle
Nice - war & peace
Peggy's Leg - history tells
Incredible string bnd - battlefield
ELP - battlefeild
Jeffro - war child
thinking plague - war dance
colosseum II - war dance
stanarte - war was eclared
lee micheals - war
captain beyond - box of war
edwards hand -revolution
black sabbath -electric funeral
-war pigs
electric sun -enola gay
hawkwind - sonic attack
flower travellin' band - children of the mushroom
busker- honours of glory
shuttah - the wizard
-tell me why
wakeman & cousins - higher germany
fairfield parlour - soldier of the flesh
strawbs - where shadows fall
westcoast consortium -soldiers in the rain
fate - sergeant Death
Jigsaw - sitting on a bomb
Groundhogs - soldier
-thank christ for the bomb
wild turkey -battlehymn
horslips - book of invasions
vdggenerator - emperor in his war room
-scortched earth
oldfiled - killing fields
elp - lucky man
fm - black noise
marino - electric reflections of war
plackband -after the battle
kayak- back to front
barclay james harvest - summer soldier
yes- yours is no disgrace
warm dust - write a letter
kestel - in the war
message- soldiers
birthcontrol - work is done
mastermind- war machine
henry cow - beutiful as the moon
sensation's fix- nuclear war in your brain
massacre - killing time
12th night - sequences

vdgg - Roncevaux
30 years war - war song
red crayola - war sucks
jethro tull -3rd horrah
spirogyra -seargent says
fyreworks - war years
ravers - times have changed
monolith- warlord
magnus -kombat kid
uncalled for - masters of war
frumpy - duty
joy unlimited - face of war
planetarium -war
gravestone - war
sahb - days of war
flue - small gods
frankie dymon - aftermyth
mandalaband -akiyawa
paul brett's sage -trophies of war

How many is that? (Okay, four or five were instrumentals with no lyrics, but you get the meaning)

Who is THE MAN?
Deacon is The Man!










Hail to the Power and to Glory's Way!


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)




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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

The Deacon is THE MAN.










_*And you know it!*_


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Sorry, but this list doesn't cut it. I eliminated about 15 (update, 30) because they aren't prog (Black Sabbath, seriously?) or aren't about war, and I didn't even get to the instrumentals yet. Others you seem to have so mangled the band name or title that what you meant couldn't be identified. I'm not going to bother going through the rest of the list because your "hit rate" isn't good enough to justify it.

Edit: Spent another few minutes and eliminated several more. Did you even listen to this stuff? Or just do a word search and print random titles?



The Deacon said:


> War:
> 
> OLD MAN & SEA -jingoism
> HENRY COW - war
> ...


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

List the ones that do not meet with your approval or you are lame.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Yes -harold land
spring -shipwrecked soldier
magic dragon -once on a time
charge -soldiers and battle
blodwyn pig -send your son to die
web-conscience
ywis - flight fear
christmas - warsong
quasar - man of war
procol harum- fires burn brightly
neon philharmonic - dresden
julian's treatment - soldier of time
wooly wolstenholme - gatebearer
-patriots
gnidrolog - i'd never be a soldier
park - in barracks
floyd - corporate clegg
holding pattern - mercenary
parzifal - mrs virgin
utopia - freedom fighter
arkus - 1914


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

genesis-knife
mahogany rush - guitar war

You give a lotta King Crimson (cos you likely don't know much else).
You know most of "Lizard" side 2 is all about war?


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Jeff Wayne - war of the worlds










ELP - gates of Kiev
-tarkus (war between two creaturemachine hybrids of destruction

Get down onnit!


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

EdwardBast said:


> Others you seem to have so mangled the band name or title that what you meant couldn't be identified.


Only one I mangled was Standarte . (and possibly I spell "Colosseum" incorrectly.)

Oh yeah. Another typo:" Incredible String Bnd" instead of "Incredible String Band"

You are desperate.
You quibble.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The list of ones I eliminated is below. Many I haven't looked up. What should be perfectly obvious is that I got as many on my theme by looking at just a handful of bands in my collection. If we added up all of the love/sex related songs by all the bands you've listed, the war theme would be outnumbered by hundreds. 

I consider the point made. 


monolith- warlord - Not prog. 
TOMITA (and many others like Earthband,etc) -Mars
fad gadget -under the flag not prog
WEB - east meets west not prog
-battle
Incredible string bnd – battlefield not prog
colosseum II - war dance not prog
lee micheals – war not prog
captain beyond - box of war not prog
black sabbath -electric funeral obviously not prog
-war pigs
electric sun -enola gay not prog
hawkwind - sonic attack not about war
fairfield parlour - soldier of the flesh not prog not about war
strawbs - where shadows fall not prog
fate - sergeant Death not prog
Jigsaw - sitting on a bomb not prog
Groundhogs – soldier not prog
-thank christ for the bomb not prog
wild turkey –battlehymn not prog
horslips - book of invasions not prog
scortched earth not about war (it’s about burning bridges in the interpersonal sense.
oldfiled - killing fields
fm - black noise not prog
yes- yours is no disgrace not a coherent theme (or lyric)
message- soldiers not prog
mastermind- war machine not prog
henry cow - beutiful as the moon not about war (One mention of the word doesn’t do it)
massacre - killing time
12th night – sequences no lyric
red crayola - war sucks not prog
spirogyra -seargent says not prog
ravers - times have changed not prog
gravestone – war not prog
sahb - days of war not prog
paul brett's sage -trophies of war (not prog)


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> genesis-knife
> mahogany rush - guitar war
> 
> You give a lotta King Crimson (cos you likely don't know much else).
> You know most of "Lizard" side 2 is all about war?


There is no lyric on Lizard about war. There is one about soldiers in camp in the morning. And the theme of the piece isn't war, it's transgression and retribution.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> Only one I mangled was Standarte . (and possibly I spell "Colosseum" incorrectly.)
> 
> Oh yeah. Another typo:" Incredible String Bnd" instead of "Incredible String Band"
> 
> ...


Those I found. You're describing Black Sabbath as prog and calling me desperate?


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

will give you that Fad Gadget isn't prog. And, okay, mebbe Red Crayola on that track is more psych than prog (but the line between psych & prog can be very fine.)

You say the lyrics to Fairfield Parlour have nothig to do with war. The song is about soldiers leaving for war - "You have to do your very best" and the women crying. "battlefield" is mentioned and there is prominent use of military snare drum


What is Hawkwind "sonic attack" about, if not nuclear war?



I'm not arguing the rest of your ridiculousness.

And , yes, one mention of the word "war" DOES cut it.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

As to Lizard side 2:

That Souponsea (Promenade the Puzzle) site that I referred you, you pronounced with finality as being "mostly nonsense". (This, I must add, after a very short pause between posts - and there is A LOT to read & assimilate there.)

Let me gloss over some of his points:
side 2 is about WAR between East and West as CLEARLY pictured on the back coverart where we see the knights (in white samite) of the west charging against the east (in their armour that looks like bamboo or wood). This is the Mongol invasion of Europe with the Teutonic knights on the right and the Mongols on left. It is the 1241 battle of Liegnitz during the reign of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II. 

Near the end you have (Europe) "stare eastwards" towards the Mongol (bear) threat.

It is the beginning of the battle. (From there on its all instrumental.)

How can you say its not about war when you have the title "Battle of Glass Tears" and the final line:
"Three hills apart great armies stir
Spit oat and curse as day breaks.
Forming lines of horse and steel
By even yards march forward."


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

You wans me to list some "sex" ones to add to your list, so you can poke holes in 'em?

(Only I'd best stipulate Prog AND PSYCH).


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Yeah...I capitulate.

Of course love-lyric rules in ALL musics, but you gotta admit prog DID try to verge away from that formula.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

My favourite Prog Theme is necrophilia.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

The Deacon said:


> The Deacon is THE MAN.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you need to have your own (cyber) space.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)




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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

"Working all day , just like a stoopit coolie
Wot can I say? WORKING ALL DAY!"


Excellent track from an excellent Gentle Giant lp.
But what has it to do with the theme at hand?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Deacon said:


> "Working all day , just like a stoopit coolie
> Wot can I say? WORKING ALL DAY!"
> 
> Excellent track from an excellent Gentle Giant lp.
> But what has it to do with the theme at hand?


Working all day is why these musicians are so good, and you're nothing but an arrogant big mouth.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Might be so but still....
nothing to do with the subject of my thread.


You should start a "Fav Prog lps" thread, Jimmeh my fren.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

That's already been done. And I'm not a big fan of endless favorites threads. There's already loads of those on this forum. I'm interested in discovering interesting composers.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Tell you wot, Jimmeh.
Since I lurv you so much, I'm gonna do a fookin' "paradigm shift" on me thread:
iss no longer about War in prog, but is now about the WORKING CLASS DIPLOID (in prog -and other -lyrics).

Nosferatu - workday
9:30 Fly - Mr 5 to 9
Year 2000 - working so hard
John Lennon - working class arsole
Groundhogs - cob on corn
Test Dept - generous terms
Galadriel - working
Strawbs - union man
Tull - Rose on factory floor
Mad Curry - working man
Twilights - time & motion man
Jenghis Khan - hard workin' man

Rush - working man (The Deacon just recently maintained that Rush were caca, but this track off their first lp IS an exception)

Episode 6 - time & motion man
PFM - Mr 9 to 5
Flibbertigibbet (& Steeleye Span) - blackleg miner
Steeleye Span - weaver & the factory maid
Christmas - factory
Maximillian - kicking 9 to 5
Steve Hackett - ballad of the decomposing man
Skip Bifferty - once
Stonehouse Creek - work is a 4-letter word
Bob Burchill (Perth County Conspiracy) - bend your back
Jodo - ratrace
Mooseskul Grooveband - run for your life
Wakiepoos - proletariat
Electric Food - working on a rainbow
Shadow Kabinet - -office life
Kinks - cigar man
Voyager - working day
Mike Rutherford - Smallcreep's day

And two absolutely wick concept lps:
"Hard Cash" V.A. with Martin Carthy,Richard Thompson, etc

Triumvirat - Illusions on a Double Dimple

WHO IS THE MAN?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Another favorite _Lawrence of Arabia_ quote:

T.E. Lawrence: It's my manner, sir.
General Murray: Your manner?
T.E. Lawrence: Yes. It looks insubordinate, but it isn't really.
General Murray: Shut up... and get out!


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

"Strange Magic of.. Bruce Springsteen"

Now, I mean, that just says it all doesn't it.

No way I can top that.


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