# Anyone else here teach themselves how to play the piano?



## Mun

Did you learn to play the piano through formal piano lessons you received or did you simply teach yourself to play the piano?

I've been playing the Piano for nine years and I'm self taught, I've only really had 2 formal piano lessons as a child. I'm actually a pretty good pianist as well and am able to play quite complex piano sonatas, I think I would be a lot better if I had chosen to stick with receiving piano lessons instead of teaching myself. (Sorry if I sound absolutely cocky lol)

Many people I know who do play the piano are often amazed at how well I can play the piano (knowing that I'm self taught) mainly because I can play much better than most of them can.

For all those who are self-taught, do you regret never taking piano lessons?


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## Ravndal

Please record something and upload it, I'm curious in what you define good. Playing good technically is just a small part of being good at the piano, which almost all new age pianist have forgot.

And taking piano lessons is the best thing ever happened to me. Made me realize that there is so much more, than technicality.


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## Mun

Ravndal said:


> Please record something and upload it, I'm curious in what you define good. Playing good technically is just a small part of being good at the piano, which almost all new age pianist have forgot.
> 
> And taking piano lessons is the best thing ever happened to me. Made me realize that there is so much more, than technicality.


I do agree that receiving formal lessons does help immensely but playing piano without any formal lessons and still being good is one hundred percent possible.

I mean why is Jimi Hendrix (sorry for posting about a guitarist on a keyboard topic) is considered the best guitarist whilst Yngwie Malmsteen (Someone who had all the formal trainign and is considered one of the most technical guitarist) constantly gets bad reviews and considered only a good guitarist and a terrible musician?

And I'll hopefully post a recording by tomorrow considering I'm leaving in 20-30 minutes and will be busy all day.

I mean I hope you're not implying that you can only be a good pianist if you've had all the formal training required.


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## Ravndal

No, i don't. Hell, even most piano teachers are terrible. That is why i said being technical is just a small part. And i think we're in an agreement at the moment. Still looking forward to hear you play though


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## Mun

Ravndal said:


> No, i don't. Hell, even most piano teachers are terrible. That is why i said being technical is just a small part. And i think we're in an agreement at the moment. Still looking forward to hear you play though


Hopefully I won't disappoint you tomorrow when I do remember to record and post and would alsolike to apologize beforehand because I'll be recording with my mobile.

And I agree that technical is just a small part of it all, And if you do just learn by yourself and continue to just follow books and such you will only learn the technical parts.

Which is why people also tend to learn to understand music and feel music whilst playing through other things that don't have to particularly be during the time you're playing piano. Whether it'd be by watching pianists play because like me love to watch videos of other pianists playing the piano, constantly listening to sonatas, and hopefully they can think for themselves and learn to form their own interpretations of sonatas.


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## Ravndal

May i ask who your favorite pianists are?


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## Mun

Ravndal said:


> May i ask who your favorite pianists are?


Sorry if this is a stereotypical answer, but Sergei Rachmaninoff.


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## Ravndal

Sorry. Let me rephrase: who are your favorite interpreters?


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## Mun

Ravndal said:


> Sorry. Let me rephrase: who are your favorite interpreters?


Again, I apologize once again for an answer that iis probably another stereotypical answer: Glenn Gould and Krystian Zimerman.


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## Ravndal

No need for an apologize. excellent answer


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## Klavierspieler

I will restrain myself.

This time....

.....

.....


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## Mun

Klavierspieler said:


> I will restrain myself.
> 
> This time....
> 
> .....
> 
> .....


From saying something insulting? Go ahead I don't mind.


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## sjaletheia

Mun said:


> I do agree that receiving formal lessons does help immensely but playing piano without any formal lessons and still being good is one hundred percent possible.
> [...]
> I mean I hope you're not implying that you can only be a good pianist if you've had all the formal training required.


Oh, trust me. There are so many formally trained pianists who are just hopeless. Formal training doesn't guarantee successful pianism. It encourages, but the result is completely up to the learners.

Technicality is not just a small part of good playing but it's also the beginning. You need the technical fluency before artistry.

Trained-pianists also spend long, agonizing hours alone in their practice rooms, well, if they are passionate and devoted pianists. They are not spoon-fed by their teachers.

So my point is, trained or self-taught, it doesn't matter. The amount of effort put in, is what decides a good performance. That's why you, a self-taught pianist (a passionate it seems) are better than most of the people


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## LordBlackudder

i think is quite ironic that you go to school 12 years solid and a piano lesson boils down to 10 minutes on a wednesday after school.

i thought the methods were boring, convoluted and there was no sign of improvement set against goals.

i have learnt far more now i am self taught. but ideally music should be taught properly in schools from a young age. to be self taught is a monument to how crap your school was.


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## Humidor

Mun said:


> I mean why is Jimi Hendrix (sorry for posting about a guitarist on a keyboard topic) is considered the best guitarist whilst Yngwie Malmsteen (Someone who had all the formal trainign and is considered one of the most technical guitarist) constantly gets bad reviews and considered only a good guitarist and a terrible musician


Because as you said Malmsteen is not a musician of the same caliber. Also he didn't die young.... but ANYWAAAYS! It's true, training doesn't give you more talent than you have, it just lets you use that talent to the absolute best of YOUR ability. Not every kid who gets piano lessons is Mozart nor is every undergrad student who studies counterpoint Bach. It's about harnessing all the tools available to use your ability in the most effective way possible. Which brings me to my next point.



Mun said:


> I mean I hope you're not implying that you can only be a good pianist if you've had all the formal training required.


No, but you're not as good as you would be if you had formal training. Hypothetically (my apologies for the theory crafting) if take yourself and another pianist of identical talent and devotion and he gets formal training and you don't, he's going to be significantly better than you.

The greatest pianists (and nearly all instrumentalists, and great composers) all had enough natural talent that they could have gotten very far without training, but not to the level where they eventually did with it. For you this might not matter as I doubt you wish to devote your entire life to your instrument (if you did you'd probably have stuck with the lessons) but you will never achieve the level of mastery of a Gould, or a Zimmerman, or a Richter.

"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind."
-Johannes Brahms


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## Avengeil

Hmmm our curiosity has to be left unsatisfied it seems....


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## Humidor

And I wrote such a long post -_- damn you!


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## jani

Gotta love yngwies playing, his vibrato and finger tone are so great!


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## Nariette

What I know, I mostly taught myself. As a child, I played for a few years from the book, nothing classical, I stopped quite soon. My mother is a piano teacher, so there is sheet music lying all over the house (even though she has a library for that) and one day I just grabbed a piece I liked and started playing. Because it was a difficult piece, I pulled myself up to a certain level, skipping a few years of development. My sight reading is good, but because I teach myself I sometimes make major mistakes. My mother corrects me when she hears me making a mistake, but I don't really have lessons. I'm fine with it the way it is now, I make my own plan and can play whenever I want, so when I don't play for a few days no one will complain about me not studying enough.


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## stanchinsky

I'm mostly self taught, I had a couple of beginning lessons that actually were very useful and allowed me to learn on my own a little. I do regret not staying with them but I take composition lessons right now so I'm always mainly focused on that aspect of music rather then performance. I think I may get a teacher over the summer however just evaluate my playing. Have you thought about getting a teacher, if only for a short while to just get an 'expert opinion'? (assuming the teacher is an expert).


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## Novelette

I took formal lessons for a few years and learned the basics. After I went to college in 2005, I stopped taking formal lessons and only played every once in a while.

At about 2007, I embarked upon a more serious project of self-study of piano technique which carried me from easy pieces like Brahms' Waltz in A-Flat to Beethoven's "Pathetique" Sonata. My greatest progress has been in the last year when I taught myself to play Brahms' Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Beethoven's 32 Variations in C Minor, and Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier.

I spend anywhere between two to four hours a day playing; the piano brings me such joy.

It's not difficult to teach yourself, but you cannot become discouraged with difficulty. Use a piece you really want to play as a way to learn new technique. Chopin's "Heroic" Polonaise will give you great dexterity of the fifth and fourth finger of your right hand.


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## Mesa

Taught entirely by steam and Lypur on youtube, plus a pretty intensive week of Boogie lessons with wonderful Virtuoso Danny McCormack at a blues week.

I'm still rubbish at classical, probably a grade 4 or 5 with some gaping omissions from the curriculum checklist. I can knock off a leisurely Chopin Waltz in B Minor as my show piece, i think.

I think some of the biggest improvements in my playing were just after seriously taking up the guitar - just a mental switch was flicked that made me realise how straightforward a keyboard was as an interface for expelling emotion.


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## clavichorder

Oh...kind of. I never listened to my teachers very well, and sort of picked it up under supervision at times, but the bulk of my technical advancement on my own, when I hadn't taken lessons in years. Its not terrific advancement, but it did happen.


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## cmudave

I was self taught for several years prior to age 13. I used a book discovered in the bench of my grandparents' piano (How to Play the Piano Despite Years of Lessons) to learn basic theory and notation, then played everything I could get my hands on. When I finally started taking lessons, my first teacher was a jazz pianist. I stayed with him for two years, then studied for a year with a respected classical pianist before passing my conservatory auditions. I continued my studies in a conservatory performance program which benefited me tremendously both technically and musically. I definately value formal education from qualified teachers who are passionate about making music and passing this on to their pupils. There were a number of issues with my technique which I had to deal with once I began studying with my second teacher. Having said that, if I had never been privileged to have had excellent formal instruction, I would still have become a music lover who could play the piano and both enjoy music as well as share with others. I do not believe I would have reached the level to perform as a classical recitalist/soloist or chamber musician without what I learned from the teaching and examples of my teachers over the years.


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## Francesca

That is a great achievement to teach yourself to play piano well, but as a pianist I would say that unless you have a good teacher, you are unlikely to learn correct rules of fingering which will hold you back if you want to play difficult classical pieces. If you only want to play popular music, should not be a problem. Of course teaching is no substitute for musical aptitude and empathy, but teaching certainly has its part to play.


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## Jord

Mun said:


> I mean why is Jimi Hendrix (sorry for posting about a guitarist on a keyboard topic) is considered the best guitarist whilst Yngwie Malmsteen (Someone who had all the formal trainign and is considered one of the most technical guitarist) constantly gets bad reviews and considered only a good guitarist and a terrible musician?


(Had a conversation similar to this on another post and i ended up ranting, i'll try not to do that this time :lol: )
Where i'm from with all the people i know who play guitar we have this debate about 'music theory vs feel', all the guitarists who claim you can completely disregard music theory and play with 'feel' are the ones who support players like Hendrix, people like me, the music theory ones, support Malmsteen.

Also the 'feel' guitarists often claim Malmsteen has no feel/emotion and just plays a bunch of notes, i guess 'feel' is indescribable/undefinable because it's subjective, therefore Malmsteen could have 'feel' just depends how you interpret it

One of my previous guitar teachers claimed they don't like Malmsteen because they'll never be able to do what he does, although i don't see how that works

The vast majority of these 'feel' guitarists either have lessons but get their teacher to teach them songs, which my friends been doing for about 10 years now, not progressing at all, or had a few lessons and claimed they gave them up because all they were being taught was chords, however none of them understand the difference between a major and minor chord theoretically. They also claim they don't need theory, when they know nothing about music theory, how can you say you don't need it if you don't know what it is?

Overall i think one possibility is that they just enjoy Hendrix' music more, or that they don't have the patience to get that good and it demeans their determinism when playing guitar, so they stick with someone who's songs are easy to play.

Just my personal experiences

ANYWAY

I got lessons for a month or so while at school before i left, then about a year and a few months passed i was teaching myself, i made a bit of progress, now i've been getting lessons for about 2 months and i've improved so much in that space.

At school the teacher started me on Grade 3/4 pieces
In the year or so i wasn't being taught i didn't play much or develop much but played anything from Avenged Sevenfold songs to attempting a Scarlatti Sonata (Didn't go too bad but definitely not great :lol: )
then i had a few lessons with my new teacher, suddenly after 2 lessons i could slightly sight read (only about a grade 2/3 standard) and now i'm working at the Grade 6 book, without Piano lessons i don't think i'd ever of got to where i am right now for another few years


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## Feathers

I started out by taking lessons, and when I got to an intermediate level, I took a break from the lessons and taught myself for a few years. I took a year of piano lessons again after I reached a more advanced level, and stopped after doing my last piano exam. After that I basically taught myself.

Formal lessons with a teacher definitely helped, but sometimes I feel that the teacher provides motivation and a "push" to improve more than anything else. To be honest, I didn't really explore and enjoy music until I stopped taking lessons, and the factor that contributed the most to my musical improvement is actually (unsurprisingly) my own growth in age and understanding, not lessons. But of course, I have my piano teachers to thank for my basic techniques, which continue to help me.


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## TwoFourPianist

I've had formal lesson for about 10 years, and yes - they have been immensely rewarding. My teacher has pushed me towards pieces I would not have perhaps chosen myself, which has helped me increase my repertoire and technicality. I have always done well in examinations due to attention to detail. 

However, I am slowly developing my own distinctive style which contrdicts that of my teacher. I tend to jump straight into pieces and immediately decipher my own interpretation. My teacher on the other hand prefers to learn the piece slowly. Perhaps if I was self-taught I would have found my own style quicker. But then again, I would never quit going to lessons with my teacher because there will always be those insightful views of a piece that I will miss. Also, she's a darn good teacher!  I think it just depends on what you want as a performer.


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## Yardrax

With regards to the Hendrix/Malmsteen analogy, I don't remember that Yngwie was ever actually formally taught? I don't think there was really that many formal resources for electric guitar playing until the 80's shred craze and the teaching video's that became a popular way to capitalise on success for a lot of players around that time. Rock music was initially and still is to a large extent an aural tradition, with it's primary documentation being in the form of specific recordings. A large number of guitar players from the 60's reported learning by sitting in their bedrooms and slowing down records to learn the guitar parts by ear. In addition, rock music lacks the distinction between performer and composer which exists in classical music. Most famous rock groups in history played primarily original material composed by the band members, with a couple of covers as a nod to their influences. Because of this, rock musicians tend to be evaluated more on their songwriting abilities than their technical prowess, and the reason Malmsteen is cited as lacking in 'feel' is because the music he writes is considered by most people (Rightly, in my opinion) to be lacking in emotional depth in comparison to Hendrix. At any rate, drawing direct comparisons between rock guitar playing and classical piano, or classical any instrument, playing is probably a bad idea.


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## aleazk

The problem with self-learning is that sometimes it may take you a lot of time to "discover" things that a teacher can tell you in two lessons.
For any instrument, I recommend intensive lessons with a good teacher.
My last piano teacher was very good. I really, really improved my technique, and in a relatively short time. 
And technique is very important. The clarity required in, say, a fast fugue by Bach is impossible to achieve without a very good technique.
Those people who say that technique is not important are lying, those are the same who say that Einstein was bad at math. . Sorry, but having a good technique is a necessary condition for being a good pianist, in the same sense that being good at math is a necessary condition for being a good physicist, like Einstein was.


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## PetrB

Jord said:


> (Had a conversation similar to this on another post and i ended up ranting, i'll try not to do that this time :lol: )
> Where i'm from with all the people i know who play guitar we have this debate about 'music theory vs feel', all the guitarists who claim you can completely disregard music theory and play with 'feel' are the ones who support players like Hendrix, people like me, the music theory ones, support Malmsteen.
> 
> Also the 'feel' guitarists often claim Malmsteen has no feel/emotion and just plays a bunch of notes, i guess 'feel' is indescribable/undefinable because it's subjective, therefore Malmsteen could have 'feel' just depends how you interpret it
> 
> One of my previous guitar teachers claimed they don't like Malmsteen because they'll never be able to do what he does, although i don't see how that works
> 
> The vast majority of these 'feel' guitarists either have lessons but get their teacher to teach them songs, which my friends been doing for about 10 years now, not progressing at all, or had a few lessons and claimed they gave them up because all they were being taught was chords, however none of them understand the difference between a major and minor chord theoretically. They also claim they don't need theory, when they know nothing about music theory, how can you say you don't need it if you don't know what it is?
> 
> Overall i think one possibility is that they just enjoy Hendrix' music more, or that they don't have the patience to get that good and it demeans their determinism when playing guitar, so they stick with someone who's songs are easy to play.
> 
> Just my personal experiences
> 
> ANYWAY
> 
> I got lessons for a month or so while at school before i left, then about a year and a few months passed i was teaching myself, i made a bit of progress, now i've been getting lessons for about 2 months and i've improved so much in that space.
> 
> At school the teacher started me on Grade 3/4 pieces
> In the year or so i wasn't being taught i didn't play much or develop much but played anything from Avenged Sevenfold songs to attempting a Scarlatti Sonata (Didn't go too bad but definitely not great :lol: )
> then i had a few lessons with my new teacher, suddenly after 2 lessons i could slightly sight read (only about a grade 2/3 standard) and now i'm working at the Grade 6 book, without Piano lessons i don't think i'd ever of got to where i am right now for another few years


Classical pianist trained from early childhood weighing in here. Do not care at all for electric guitar, but what I've heard of Malmsteen sounds like the most musically shallow of music making, the player most concerned with speed. This is like a speed freak pianist playing Rachmaninoff without any of the musical depth sounding out. So there is one completely theory / technique trained opinion Not pro Malmsteen, and very pro Hendrix.

I suppose it is still a matter of taste what you call 'music' and what you think is 'musical.' Malmsteen to me is that youth / boy mentality of being impressed with playing fast most of the time, and that often spawns rivers of fairly meaningless notes more about display of playing a lot of notes rapidly than making profound music out of the same, which is completely possible if the musicianship is as least as strong an impulse as being thrilled with speed.

I've never understood the shredder mentality, anyway, classical or pop / rock. The basic motivations and drive behind it, seems seriously adolescent to me. Adolescence is usually when its ardent fans are usually attracted to it. It all seems rather stuck in that mentality, as well... like staying in the garage and being fascinated and preoccupied with how many RPM's you can crank the engine up to, _without a thought of pulling the vehicle out and driving it, i.e. an interest in actually going someplace interesting _ (There is a similar quality to some virtuoso bombast classical music as well -- it is not exclusive to pop music.)

imho, B.B. King made more music with just a small handful of notes than Malmsteen may ever be capable of delivering.


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## PetrB

There is good and good. Someone self-taught who plays the Chopin Etudes may or may not sound brilliant, but the odds are that almost every professional classical pianist is not self-taught, and that not even a month or much more.

It is fairly delusional, and more of a rationale than a reality, that you can really progress as a classical player without a pretty intense and long term formal study _with an expert teacher._ As said here already, especially at the more beginning and intermediate levels, there are a lot of not very great teachers to sort through to find a really good one. _(And good ones do not come cheap.)

_But train, really, if you have any ambition -- even to play well for your own satisfaction -- it is what you will have to do.


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## Three14

I am self taught since I was five, and only within the last year began taking lessons (I am 35). I do regret not learning scales and technique sooner. My fingers were uneven and choppy, and my practice techniques were improper - I have learned a great deal. On the plus side, I have developed my emotional interpretive abilities, sight reading, and simply my passion for the instrument to a level that makes shoring up all the gaps possible. But I highly recommend lessons - you don't know to hear the mistakes you are making until a trained ear tells you.


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## Dongiovanni

This is my story of how I got to play the piano. As a kid I was fascinated with musical instruments and I wanted to have some. So I got a electronic keyboard for one of my birthdays. I toyed around with it, but never really learned to play. Then I got introduced to classical music, it was love at first sight. So I learned about classical piano pieces, when one day I hear the first part of the Mondscheinsonata on TV I decided I should play that on my keyboard. So I went to the library and got the sheetmusic. In order to be able to play it, I taught myself to read the music. It's not the easy way, Mondscheinsonata has 4 sharps at the clef and also double sharps all over the place. But I managed, and one day I was able to play the whole piece on my keyboard. Then, one day I played it somewhere on an electronic piano. Someone suggested I should take some lessons, and she knew just the person. So I went and got my first piano lesson. I think I was 14. I played the first part of that sonata on a Steinway grand. Mind you, my keybaord did not even have touch sensitive keys. That teacher told my parent that I should take lessons. And so I did, with another teacher I took lessons for another 8 years. We started from the beginning. It was a wonderful time and I got to learn so much fantastic music, not only to play, but also to listen to. Here my love for Chopin started. After a break (universtity) I took some lessons and learned the whole sonata. 

To everyone who want to learn to play I really suggest to take at least some lessons. And trust me, when you teach yourself, you will pick up some bad habits. I did that, and it took some effort to get rid of it. Also, teachers give you the discipline and a method to tackle those hard bits.


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