# Which are you, and why?



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Which of the poll options most nearly describes your pattern of visits to Talk Classical.
Also, can you tell us why?

Thanks in advance for any replies, earnest or otherwise.
(Hope you realise the importance of being earnest?)


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

I visit most days to do a little moderating and read through any interesting posts.

Sometimes I even post as well if something is really interesting.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

'I visit TC every day & post every couple of days.'

I was tempted to post 'never go there, so far as I'm aware' - because these days, I'm less and less *aware*. 

If you can direct me to the teashop now, I'll be getting along...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I never go there, so far as I'm aware.

Oh! I found my car keys! They were in the refrigerator.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

As to 'why' - I am a person of sudden overwhelming enthusiasms. In 2013, when I joined, I was on TC all my waking hours, was frequently 'top poster', and amassed a posting-average of 7 or 8 a day. I suffered a lot of angst, too, because the forum had more than a few feisty members in those days, such as my friend moody, who lived up to his user name, but I still miss him. :tiphat:

Passions so strong usually subside to something more livable-with, and so did mine for TC. But as I am also a loyal monogamist, I have hung in there and remain as a not-too-old-I-hope faithful.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I am certainly a regular here. As a retiree I have the time available; also as a mild insomniac. And this site has so much to offer, both in terms of its large and varied membership, but also the breadth of topics that can be and are discussed--this includes Groups, which need all the love they can get. Plus, look at the competition--need I say more? 

As to the Why: I appreciate the opportunity to find out about music and musics new to me, to share common pleasures and ideas, to read the excellent posts of others, and to hold forth--like Toad--to an enraptured yet unseen audience!:lol:


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I visit TC a lot when I can, but if I have to travel then I stop, or because of work


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> *I* visit most days to do a little moderating and *read through any interesting posts.*
> 
> Sometimes I even post as well if something is really interesting.


Good to know. I won't be expecting you then.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Actually, I find myself posting every day on Talk Classical, because unfortunately, when I visit my local tavern, a nightly affair, to play a couple of rounds of darts to hopefully win some change to purchase a couple of Guinness Darks, the ensuing conversation never seems to modulate into a discussion of the great works of Mozart, Beethoven and Bach; not even Palestrina. An appalling state of affairs!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm here every day and usually end up posting every day, mostly on Current Listening. I wish I had time to respond to other discussions, but most of the time the laboring oar keeps me from the necessary reflective cogitation.

Why am I here? Because this is where all the smart people are. I have to spend my day wading through the inanities of conversations with doctors and lawyers. No, seriously, I am appalled at what silly things these highly educated professionals are interested in, mostly things like sports and vacation spots. So far, I know only one who is actually culturally aware, but I only see him once a year.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Ingélou said:


> As to 'why' - *I am a person of sudden overwhelming enthusiasms.* In 2013, when I joined, I was on TC all my waking hours, was frequently 'top poster', and amassed a posting-average of 7 or 8 a day. I suffered a lot of angst, too, because the forum had more than a few feisty members in those days, such as my friend moody, who lived up to his user name, but I still miss him. :tiphat:
> 
> *Passions so strong usually subside to something more livable-with,* and so did mine for TC. But as I am also a loyal monogamist, I have hung in there and remain as a not-too-old-I-hope faithful.


I can SO relate to the BIBs! Part of me wishes I could be a little more controlled, but then another part would miss that wonderful period when I'm completely hooked on whatever it is that's caught my fancy.

As for TC, I haven't been here long enough to be sure of how I'll continue in the future. I've never been a prolific poster on any of the boards to which I belong, so far I've posted more frequently here than on any other board - ever. I may not continue visiting every single day as I do now, but I'd be very surprised if I didn't stop by on a regular basis for a long time to come.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Annied said:


> I've never been a prolific poster on any of the boards to which I belong, so far I've posted more frequently here than on any other board - ever.


I've noticed that about me also. I'm usually a wallflower on other boards. There's something about the camaraderie here that makes me feel welcome with my paltry two cents.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm in the second group now (top to bottom). I was in the first group (posting on TC and listening classical music regularly), but this spring I had very stressful exam which really distorted my daily functioning/habits (I even lost weight that period). Before that I had no problem listening classical (or jazz sometimes) all day, literally. But my energy/concentration dropped for everything, music, films, etc.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

I have a passion for classical music and very little pseud-intellectual affectation. A combination that makes me an outsider everywhere. 

I come to TC hungry for good chat about music, intelligent insights into things I am curious about, and a feeling of belonging somewhere.

And then, to be honest, some fight breaks out and a few people fail to keep a civil tongue in their head, and I leave for a few days to pursue my other interests. I inevitably come back and probably always will, but I wish there were less fights. I don't have anywhere else to go for what this place for the most part delivers.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Vronsky said:


> I'm in the second group now (top to bottom). I was in the first group (posting on TC and listening classical music regularly), but this spring I had very stressful exam which really distorted my daily functioning/habits (I even lost weight that period). Before that I had no problem listening classical (or jazz sometimes) all day, literally. But my energy/concentration dropped for everything, music, films, etc.


Sorry to hear this. Hope you get 'your old self' back soon. :tiphat:


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

I've only been here for a month, but thus far I fit into the first category; though this may well change (to the relief of some, probably).


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm a regular here; I easily have the time. I'm mostly into musical games these days, but I also enjoy talking up my main man Bach and HIP performances.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I visit almost every day, but only post about once a week or so.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> As to 'why' - I am a person of sudden overwhelming enthusiasms. In 2013, when I joined, I was on TC all my waking hours, was frequently 'top poster', and amassed a posting-average of 7 or 8 a day. I suffered a lot of angst, too, because the forum had more than a few feisty members in those days, such as my friend moody, who lived up to his user name, but I still miss him. :tiphat:
> 
> *Passions so strong usually subside to something more livable-with*, and so did mine for TC. But as I am also a loyal monogamist, I have hung in there and remain as a not-too-old-I-hope faithful.


Oh dear - 14 posts today and on the Top Posters List. 
Passion surges... :devil:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marinera said:


> I visit TC a lot when I can, but if I have to travel then I stop, or because of work


Come on, work isn't that important. Live a little!


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Ingélou said:


> Oh dear - 14 posts today and on the Top Posters List.
> Passion surges... :devil:


You will not be on top for long. The top poster will come back on site around 10 Central time US even though they do not live in that time and will post their avg of 30 to 50 posts a day.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> You will not be on top for long. The top poster will come back on site around 10 Central time US even though they do not live in that time and will post their avg of 30 to 50 posts a day.


Think youve got a long way to go Johnnie boy


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Think youve got a long way to go Johnnie boy


I only average around 2.12 not around 30+.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I visit nearly daily and post each time I visit to add fruitful discussion to the threads. Polls especially because I like to see the statistics as they indicate certain things. 

And to meet other people that I may not otherwise meet. This is the best part.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

I don't think there is an option for me on the given ballot. I visit TC daily, but I have not posted an official post/reply (something outside the Community Forum that counts towards my post count) in over a month now. I don't even post on the Community Forum all that frequently anymore either. While I do log in daily to TC, I only read a small fraction of the total number of messages posted.

There are many reasons why this is the case. I have not done a bulleted list on TC in many months, but here I go:


I don't have an unlimited amount of time. Time spent reading/replying is less time I can spend listening to music.

There's very little discussion about Baroque and early Classical era music here in my opinion. Sure, Haydn, Mozart, and Bach might get discussed here and there, but there's a lot more to these eras than those composers and their most popular works. It's a real shame that this is the case because I can go back to TC threads from ~2009-2012 and find many more discussions about music from those eras. Unfortunately, those posters seem to be long gone. I don't know why they left TC, but they aren't here anymore. Some of them are on other forums.

This is related to other point above and other points I will make later on, but I don't feel that the discussions on TC are congruent with what classical music fans as a whole have on their minds. That's just my observation based on what I see on other forums and in real-life discussions about classical music. Can or should anything be done about that? I don't know, but I do think the forum gets hung up on trivial matters that are of little consequence to many classical music fans. I'm turned off by it. I'm sure others are too.

There's a notion across the Internet that the user comments on YouTube are full useless, often vile, posts from teenagers. To a large extent, my observations are congruent with that stereotype. An exception to this is with classical music. I find the user commentary on YouTube to be superior to what I find here. Moreover, YouTube's recommendation algorithm leads to to many, many more good musical discoveries than what I find here. Long story short, TC is losing the "battle" against YouTube.

I think the decision to start a poll/games forum is a good decision by the mods. Still, this obsession with ranking aspects of classical music permeates the culture of this forum. Many of the threads on the General Discussion board still deal with "rankings" even if they aren't polls. I've been on several other music forums, classical or otherwise, and I don't see anything remotely like this elsewhere. Discussions on other forums are much more qualitative. This is what I'm looking for, not the _Consumer Reports_ for classical music. When you go to a trashy "news" website like Yahoo or MSN, what do you see all over the place? Top 10 lists and other rankings. I don't read Yahoo and MSN for news. Increasingly, I don't read TC either.

"Pseudointellectuals." I'm not saying they should be banned because they have not broken any rules, but their posts are boring, redundant, and not informative. I don't read posts populated by pseudointellectuals. It's easy to spot which threads have been ruined by pseudointellectuals. This means I end up ignoring many of the threads on the forum. The pseudointellectuals also negatively steer the culture of the forum away from honest discussion about classical music. I do think that some people are afraid to admit to liking certain composers/works because it does not fit whatever criteria the pseudointellectuals set as being important. This forum culture problem, combined with the aforementioned poll culture, makes TC feel like a classical music trailer park. That may offend some posters here, but it's the way I feel about the situation. I realize that MIMF is basically dead now, but it felt much classier when it had some life in it than TC does now.

I think the moderating at TC is very inconsistent. I can think of one very popular and enjoyable Community Forum thread that was allowed to operate for months without a complaint from a moderator. It was so popular that it was almost a sticky since it was always at the top. Then, all of a sudden, it was gone, posts were deleted, and infractions were handed out like needles at a shady German park. If there was a problem with this thread, how come the mods never said anything about it for months to try to rectify the problem before massive infractions were handed out? To say that the mods were unaware of the thread would be an embarrassing excuse. It was the most popular thread for months! How could they not be aware of it at all? If they didn't know about it, then there weren't complaints about it for months and the subsequent reaction was completely out of line.

This forum is plagued with technical issues. Yes, I know this forum is hosted in Denmark. That is not an excuse. There's no reason why a site hosted in Denmark can't be reliable and fast for all users worldwide. The problems are generally not user-end problems either even though that is often the excuse. 

I realize that some of these points may offend the powerful people at TC, but I hope they take it as constructive feedback as to why one poster is far less engaged than he used to be.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Klassik said:


> While I do log in daily to TC, I only read a small fraction of the total number of messages posted.
> 
> I realize that some of these points may offend the powerful people at TC, but I hope they take it as constructive feedback as to why one poster is far less engaged than he used to be.


We are not offended. We do appreciate reasoned feed back.

We are members as well. We too only read a small fraction of the messages that interest us. We accept that in the thread in question we failed.

However, let us consider a Wagner thread. It may be very popular for Wagner fans but I don't read it because I am not one. The thread may have been going for a number of weeks or months. If somebody chooses to report something that comes up and we then find that it has been going on for some time, then we will act on a pattern of behaviour and infract accordingly.

Moderators do not, in general, go out looking for trouble. We do not patrol the site. We expect members to behave in accordance with the ToS that they signed up to. If somebody reports something that they think is a breach of the ToS, then we will consider it and act if necessary. The moderating may look inconsistent because we only act on what is reported, what is reported may not be a breach of the ToS and we do not publish details of infractions or other actions we have taken.

Now let us return to the OP.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> I only average around 2.12 not around 30+.


2.12432 actually, to 6 significant figures.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Klassik said:


> I don't think there is an option for me on the given ballot...


Sorry about that: in accordance with my usual practice, I post a poll just to stimulate more detailed responses from TC Members.

:tiphat: Thank you for your own interesting and thought-provoking post. I can agree with a lot of it, though I don't like categorising people as 'pseudo-intellectuals'.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Come on, work isn't that important. Live a little!


I can hardly call myself overworked. If anything I'm too relaxed. Proof - I'm posting this on Monday.

By the way, you would make a mistake by suggesting to relax to a true workaholic only once, that would really set him or her off talking. Sensitive subject, best avoided.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marinera;1309930[B said:


> ]*I can hardly call myself overworked.* If anything I'm too relaxed. Proof - I'm posting this on Monday.
> 
> By the way, you would make a mistake by suggesting to relax to a true workaholic only once, that would really set him or her off talking. Sensitive subject, best avoided.


You aren't alone, it seems. Given the predominant demographic of TC posters-most are of working age and seem to be on TC 24/7/365. Doesn't sound like an oppressed group to me. Perhaps they are all working in New England lighthouses or are cemetery watchmen.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> Oh dear - 14 posts today and on the Top Posters List.
> Passion surges... :devil:


Many times, I believe I've only posted a few in a day, only to find myself on the Top Posters List for that day.

I guess we can get carried away without even noticing it.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

I just recently found out that I'm a top poster. Now only an infraction could stop me.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm so glad Klassik brought up the near-taboo subject of pseudointellectuals. It's important to get these people out of the closet and into the light of day where they can be scrutinized and identified for who they are. I know they are not like other folks--intellectuals and non-intellectuals--sort of occupying a halfway existence between those two other groups--and we are not supposed to like them. But it would be helpful if Klassik, who clearly understands these people and can recognize them, would provide some really clear, specific criteria whereby they can be identified. Also, I'd like to be able to know which posts are pseudointellectual posturings so I can discount them right away. It's important to me, because I sometimes suspect or fear--terrible to say--that I might be a pseudointellectual--I might be carrying the gene or whatever, and it gives me the shivers to think about it. An open and candid discussion of the problem of pseudointellectualism as it is manifested in TC posts and by certain members will help burst this abscess and will lead to honest self-evaluation among us all.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I dip into TC all the time on my phone as it's the only way I can let off steam about classical music. Have only a couple of friends who are into it and Hubby isn't as passionate about it like I am!


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> It's important to me, because I sometimes suspect or fear--terrible to say--that I might be a pseudointellectual--I might be carrying the gene or whatever, and it gives me the shivers to think about it. An open and candid discussion of the problem of pseudointellectualism as it is manifested in TC posts and by certain members will help burst this abscess and will lead to honest self-evaluation among us all.


It is really easy to tell if you are one. Three questions everyone can ask themselves. If the answer is yes to any one, they might just be a pseudointellectual. Two affirmatives clinches it. Three affirmatives, and everyone else can tell.

1 - Do you wish to _sound_ knowledgeable in fields which you have no more professional expertise or formal training than an enthusiastic layman?

2 - Have you lost the child like wonder of the power of the music itself, to humble you into a kind of respect.

3- Is your fear of looking ignorant stronger than your curiosity, so that you research on your own rather than ask questions of others.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

JeffD said:


> It is really easy to tell if you are one. Three questions everyone can ask themselves. If the answer is yes to any one, they might just be a pseudointellectual. Two affirmatives clinches it. Three affirmatives, and everyone else can tell.
> 
> 1 - Do you wish to _sound_ knowledgeable in fields which you have no more professional expertise or formal training than an enthusiastic layman?
> 
> ...


And of course, if you answer 'no' publicly to all these questions (so as to look humble), while secretly affirming them, then you're a *closet pseudo-intellectual*, which is *Beyond The Pale*. 










*Aih-h-h!--late--and wee-e-e--moul...!*


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I'm so glad Klassik brought up the near-taboo subject of pseudointellectuals It's important to get these people out of the closet and into the light of day where they can be scrutinized and identified for who they are. I know they are not like other folks--intellectuals and non-intellectuals--sort of occupying a halfway existence between those two other groups--and we are not supposed to like them. But it would be helpful if Klassik, who clearly understands these people and can recognize them, would provide some really clear, specific criteria whereby they can be identified Also, I'd like to be able to know which posts are pseudointellectual posturings so I can discount them right away. It's important to me, because I sometimes suspect or fear--terrible to say--that I might be a pseudointellectual--I might be carrying the gene or whatever, and it gives me the shivers to think about it. An open and candid discussion of the problem of pseudointellectualism as it is manifested in TC posts and by certain members will help burst this abscess and will lead to honest self-evaluation among us all.


Nothing near-taboo about it. I've written quite a few posts regarding "pseudo-intellectuals" who throw around unsubstantiated opinions as if they are gospel facts. Klassik is correct and shouldn't be ridiculed.

Given the nature of internet forums, many of us have probably done it at one time or another.

I asked about having a vanity license plate-"pseudo-intellectual", but I was told "too many letters".
See, if I was a genuine intellectual, I would have known that!!!


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I visit the site several times each day mostly for administrative reasons. 

I do regularly peruse the various threads and on occasion will post in a thread topic that interests me. 

Kh


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

JeffD said:


> It is really easy to tell if you are one. Three questions everyone can ask themselves. If the answer is yes to any one, they might just be a pseudointellectual. Two affirmatives clinches it. Three affirmatives, and everyone else can tell.
> 
> 1 - Do you wish to _sound_ knowledgeable in fields which you have no more professional expertise or formal training than an enthusiastic layman?
> 
> ...


Interesting and loaded questions:

1) Enthusiastic laypeople can be quite knowledgeable about subjects without necessarily being professionals or having had formal training. We can all supply our own examples. So I'll answer with a qualified Yes to question 1.

2) A definite No to 2. Which TC member is going to answer Yes to that one? They'll be on another forum, discussing something else entirely.

3) How about if one is confident enough in one's ability to get good information on whatever subjects by independent research? Is publicly asking a question a sign of a purer form of curiosity, untainted by the accusation of a fear of ignorance? Makes no difference, really. So that gets a No.

I'm so glad we're having this conversation .


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Nothing near-taboo about it. I've written quite a few posts regarding "pseudo-intellectuals" who throw around unsubstantiated opinions as if they are gospel facts. Klassik is correct and shouldn't be ridiculed.
> 
> Given the nature of internet forums, many of us have probably done it at one time or another.


Is there a distinction between Klassik's pseudointellectuals and your "pseudo-intellectuals"? But I appreciate your adding another question or test to JeffD's three: 4) Do you throw around unsubstantiated opinions as if they are gospel facts? In my case, all the time. Don't we all?


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Actually, I find myself posting every day on Talk Classical, because unfortunately, when I visit my local tavern, a nightly affair, to play a couple of rounds of darts to hopefully win some change to purchase a couple of Guinness Darks, the ensuing conversation never seems to modulate into a discussion of the great works of Mozart, Beethoven and Bach; *not even Palestrina.* An appalling state of affairs!


Not even Palestrina! That's a tavern to avoid. The conversations in mine never gets into Schnittke, but that's as far as I can accept.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

My circle of family, friends and acquaintances includes very few who are passionate about classical music, and those are rarely around when I want to engage in classical conversation. In re my wife, who grew up with this stuff, I know her opinions already because we've been married for so many years, so I was overjoyed to find this site. I like the ambiance of TC for both its subject matter and interesting off-topic discussions.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

znapschatz said:


> Not even Palestrina! That's a tavern to avoid. The conversations in mine never gets into Schnittke, but that's as far as I can accept.


Guilty of expectations being too high!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm wondering if we could have a pseudo-intellectual sub-forum, just for those of us who want to fool ourselves into believing we are intelligent. It could simply be called "Illusory Facts and the Posters who Flaunt Them".


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Is there a distinction between Klassik's pseudointellectuals and your "pseudo-intellectuals"? But I appreciate your adding another question or test to JeffD's three: 4) Do you throw around unsubstantiated opinions as if they are gospel facts? In my case, all the time. Don't we all?


Well, I was actually paying tribute to my great-grandfather, Hyphen Roth. He used to own Cuba when people knew how to dress up over there.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If my sums are correct I've averaged just over two posts a day over the last seven years so I guess I'm on the cusp of the first two categories, but take away my posts on the current listening thread and the ratio would be far less.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Improbus said:


> I just recently found out that I'm a top poster. Now only an infraction could stop me.


Don't believe it. It's all an illusion so that the pseudo-intellectuals get to take over the forum, while we're all sleeping. The truly intelligent posters among us will all be banned....I guess that makes me quite safe.


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## T Son of Ander (Aug 25, 2015)

I stop in here every day and check the threads. I don't always have time to post, though. I work full time, plus take care of the house and spend time with my wife when she's home. She travels for work, so when she's not home, I have more free time and post more.

I would probably post more than I do, except that I have a very hard time describing what I hear or like in music. I know what I like, I know quite a bit about music and theory, but I just can't seem to accuarately put into words what I hear in something or describe why I like, say, one symphony vs. another. It's pretty frustrating sometimes, but I love reading peoples' posts and recommendations.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Is there a distinction between Klassik's pseudointellectuals and your "pseudo-intellectuals"? But I appreciate your adding another question or test to JeffD's three: 4) Do you throw around unsubstantiated opinions as if they are gospel facts? In my case, all the time. Don't we all?


Is there a hyphen in ****-retentive?


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> Interesting and loaded questions:
> 
> 1) Enthusiastic laypeople can be quite knowledgeable about subjects without necessarily being professionals or having had formal training. We can all supply our own examples. So I'll answer with a qualified Yes to question 1.


Its not so much being knowledgeable or being correct, its hoping to taken for an expert. In my experience enthusiastic laypeople seem to answer questions a bit more gently, like "well from what I have read..." or "I could be wrong but..." or "I always thought... " They seem (by and large) to be aware that real experts are out there and might find fault with what they are saying.



> 2) A definite No to 2. Which TC member is going to answer Yes to that one? They'll be on another forum, discussing something else entirely.


Yes, you would think. But when someone seems to be comfortable saying who is and isn't over rated, with out so much as an "in my opinion", they clearly have lost a bit of that fan boy humbleness. 



> 3) How about if one is confident enough in one's ability to get good information on whatever subjects by independent research? Is publicly asking a question a sign of a purer form of curiosity, untainted by the accusation of a fear of ignorance? Makes no difference, really. So that gets a No.


Its not so much the ability to research, its the refusal to be seen asking a (a non snarky) question. The refusal to look like they have to look something up.



> I'm so glad we're having this conversation .


I would rather talk about what people thing of Bach played on the mandolin, the new recording by Robin Bullock for example.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Under my profile, my average post count is 1.52 posts per day. I look in every day, or very nearly. I post some weekdays and most weekends, though I just took a four month break from posting.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Well, I was actually paying tribute to my great-grandfather, Hyphen Roth. He used to own Cuba when people knew how to dress up over there.


Was he a relative of Waxing (W)roth, who was close to Groucho Marx back in the Good Old Days?


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