# Chicago Symphony comes to Moscow. I am not so happy



## Moscow-Mahler

I mean, it's a great orchestra, but:
1) Best tickets are strangely is no on the sale (reserved for VIP-persons?).
2) The programm is not very original: Nino Rota and Shostakovich's Fifth. I hoped that Muti would bring Prokofievs Third instead - or something more rare.

I'd like to hear Salonen with Philharmonia, or Jurowski with LPO (though he is now a director of Svetlanov orchestra - so we can see him more), or maybe Concertgebouw with someone.

Or even Vanska with MN Orchestra! We have so little Sibelius in Russia!

I'm a little bit dissapointed with myself, I thought I will be excited, but I am not so excited!


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## Vaneyes

Re CSO/Muti in Moscow (Apr. 18 & 19)--two nights, two programs. Smirnov, Rota, and Shostakovich on the first night. Smirnov, R. Strauss, and Franck on the second night.

CSO tour info. in PDF...

http://docs.noodls.com/viewDoc.asp?..._5BEC70F8D9250638D165494FC1B47357B0F07D52.PDF


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## starthrower

That whole VIP thing is a drag. Same here in the states.


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## Vaneyes

starthrower said:


> That whole VIP thing is a drag. Same here in the states.


It is, but often there's a thousand or so more seats in the US. The Moscow venue seats 1737.

View attachment 4136


Acoustic info (PDF)

http://www.akutek.info/Papers/HM_Moscow_Hall.pdf


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## starthrower

Muti should take a cue from Dizzy Gillespie. "I came here to play for the people. Take those fences down."


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## Meaghan

Moscow-Mahler said:


> *I mean, it's a great orchestra, but:*
> 1) Best tickets are strangely is no on the sale (reserved for VIP-persons?).
> 2) *The programm is not very original*: Nino Rota and Shostakovich's Fifth. I hoped that Muti would bring Prokofievs Third instead - or something more rare.
> 
> I'd like to hear Salonen with Philharmonia, or Jurowski with LPO (though he is now a director of Svetlanov orchestra - so we can see him more), or maybe Concertgebouw with someone.
> 
> Or even Vanska with MN Orchestra! We have so little Sibelius in Russia!
> *
> I'm a little bit dissapointed with myself, I thought I will be excited, but I am not so excited!*


I know how you feel. I was excited to move to Philadelphia and be in a city with such a "great orchestra" but their programming is _very_... what shall we say... safe. I wish I could be in my home town of Portland, where the orchestra is less prestigious (though still very good!) but programs more music at the edges of, and outside of, the standard repertoire. It makes me sad when top orchestras do not take chances.


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## Moscow-Mahler

The problems are that 1) I will be busy on Thursday 19 and so I can go only on 18 April.
2) The *Franck's *symphony was perfomed by Jan Tortelier in March (I visited it). Thanks god, I have not heard Shostakovich Fifth for a long time on a concert.

3) The best acousitcs are on first and second rows of the first amphitheatre. The tenth row e.g. is a little too far. You don't feel the sound physically, as you feel in Berlin Philharmonie -even in C zone, thanks to their cunning architecture.

The first row of amphitheatre in Moscow Conservatory is ideal. So, it is not aviable.

4) THE MAIN POINT. Maybe they *should perfom some Copland or Antheil.* I do not mind hearing some American music. In 1990 Solti came to us with Bruckner's 8th - which was new to Russian listeners.

... Maybe I'm just angry that they come to us so rarely...


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## joen_cph

> In 1990 Solti came to us with Bruckner's 8th - which was new to Russian listeners.


No doubt you have first-hand experiences, but there were at least 3 earlier Soviet recordings: Mravinsky (1959), Svetlanov (1981) and Rozhdestvensky (1984), all issued by Melodiya. 
The Masur/Gewandhaus (1978) would probably also be available through GDR-culture shops.


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## Moscow-Mahler

*joen_cph*

Shame on me, thanks! But I was born in early 80s. Most of Soviet vinyl recordings are not transferred to digital format or - if transferred - are rare. In my childhood I had some vinyl records with Rozhdestvensky (including "Cinderrella" with narrative for children with Prokofiev's music - I think a great thing to introduce kids to music), but not with Bruckner.

***
Still, I mean that Bruckner was quite new to Russian listeners in 1990. But in 2012 it will be great to bring some Copland or Antheil to Russia, I suppose. Though, we have Bernstein's Kaddysh premiere in 20011.


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## joen_cph

It´s interesting reading your post - have you witnessed a lot of concerts in Russia ? The quality of Russian musicians is often so admirable ...


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## Moscow-Mahler

Yes, we have some good orchestras in Moscow including Russian National Orchestra (director is Mikhail Pletnev). There was very good perfomance of Bruckner's last symphony by Pletnev (I have not heard his Beethoven symphonies yet). RNO also invited some good guest conductors, including Petrenko, Thomas Sanderling, etc.

Moscow State Academical Orchestra by Pavel Kogan is also quite good. Sometimes, he invites good soloists, esp. violinists.

Svetlanov's orchestra was in crisis, because Svetlanov prefererd to live in Hague. And they had qurrels with Gorenstein. Now they have Jurowski. I hope, he will improve the orchestra.

The former Orchestra of Soviet Ministry of Culture, now ruled by Polyanski has a good chorus, but the orchestra sound is not good, imho.

But even in good orchestras (including Pletnev's and Kogan's) there are corruption, unsolved organisational problems, etc.

***
I can not tell you about situation in Petersburg, because I was there only twice. I do not like the city, it is too depressing, despite beautiful palaces, so it is not a place where I want to return. Alas!

And I do not know anything musical life in Ural o Siberia, alas.

***
*Sure, we have excellent soloists. Yes, excellent* We have good boxers and tennisists also. But a command game needs transperency and good organisation. In modern Russia a wife of a conductor can controll the finances or his relatives use grants to buy an expensieve flat in Moscow.


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## Moscow-Mahler

Among good concerts, attended by me in 2012, were two concerts with Russian National Orchestra and two famous - ex-Soviet, now European- guest-conductors: Paavo Jarvi and Vasiliy Petrenko.

Paavo Jarvi's concert was suprisingly expensieve (even more then Chicago Symphony). I guess Denis Matsuev's mangement is to blame. The maximum prise was 8000 rubles (200 euro - first row of stalls - a crazy prise as it was Lucerne Festival or something not a concert in Russia by Russian pianist). Matsuev got a lot of flowers from rich people. Some of them went home after his departure. They did not stay for the perfomance of Beethoven's Fifth by Jarvi. It was good, though I was in the tenth row of amphitheatre - so the sound was little distant. And I felt that maybe Jarvi's "own" orchestra played with more vigour for him.

The next concert was with Petrenko. It has much more reasonable price. The guest soloist in Prokofiev's First Violin concerto was Steinbacher. She was better in slow movements, maybe she needs more muscles (like Mullova who is quite muscular girl).

Petrenko and orchestra were great in Prokofiev's ballet suites from Romeo and Juliet. I hope he will not be shy to record some Prokofiev with Naxos. I was sitting in the first row of amphitheater - and the sound was great.

NO ONE GAVE flowers to Petrenko or Steinbacher. I was angry, remembering tones of flowers a week ago. Maybe I should have taken a new soccer-ball and made a pass from my amphitheatre place to Petrenko  Unfortunately, I am not into football.


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## Moira

Moscow-Mahler said:


> 1) Best tickets are strangely is no on the sale (reserved for VIP-persons?).


I attended an opera recital on 21 March, a public holiday in South Africa. The concert was listed as sold out. Nearly two rows in the most desirable part of the house were empty. The sponsors get tickets, invite people and they don't bother to show. That really annoys me.


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## PetrB

Excruciatingly dull and uninteresting programming, if I do say so myself. Stravinsky, Carter, Ives, even the Barber Piano Concerto, etc. there are many other choices of repertoire which would have been much more entertaining and informative. 

This programming sounds terribly 'safe bet' - as if any major orchestra of this caliber had to worry about selling seats: there are enough who will want to hear them play anything!


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## Moscow-Mahler

Well, in Russia sponsors are the GOVERNMENT or some very rich people, who just donate orchestras, but mostly do not buy or reserve tickets. 

So, in fact this VIP persons are not SPONSORS. And it's not a Russian orchestra, it's CSO. So, I suppose that Moscow Philharmonia just gave tickets to some speculators, who will resell it, or to some VIP people, but not sponsors.

Though, certainly it's not CSO fault.


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## Moira

You will probably be surprised at how many people in the good seats didn't/don't pay for them. Media, sponsors, administrators, service providers, orchestra comps (although my experience is that these are not usually the best seats in the house), local government VIPs, sundry others like the people providing medical cover for the concert. Some of them will be guests of the theatre hosting the event, some will be guests of the visiting company. 

Of these people, some will have a specific purpose for being there, and will not merely be spongers. They 'earn' their seat and that of their partner (the invitations are usually for two). I think that most of these people are very ethical about their seats and if they are only using one, and not bringing a partner, they will advise their host accordingly so that the host can allocate the ticket to someone else or sell the ticket. 

I doubt if room for ticket speculators is built into the system.


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## Discobole

Moira said:


> You will probably be surprised at how many people in the good seats didn't/don't pay for them. Media, sponsors, administrators, service providers, orchestra comps (although my experience is that these are not usually the best seats in the house), local government VIPs, sundry others like the people providing medical cover for the concert. Some of them will be guests of the theatre hosting the event, some will be guests of the visiting company.


These is the case everywhere in the world, and more even for that kind of big events. It is unfair but it is logical and, anyway, a concert of this kind of orchestra means you must book your seat at the exact date and time when booking starts...
It will be little comfort, but I heard the CSO for the last time last september and, of course it was absolutely perfect (better than anything on CD) but I felt absolutely nothing, Shostakovich's 5th in particular was empty of all its violence, its irony, its urgency, under Muti. What is the program for this Moscow concert ?


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## Moscow-Mahler

It's still *imposible* to buy tickets for the concerts in Moscow Conservatory or Moscow Tchaikovsky Hall *via Internet*. Only reserve them via internet.

Usually, I just buy the tickets three week before the concert in the Moscow Philharmonic Society office. For the majority of the concerts (even when e.g. *Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra* was here) the tickets were aviable, but with CSO there is some strange situation.

But my tickets is actually quite good - the 9th row of the 1st amphitheatre and in the centre of the row.

***
The programm will be some music by Nino Rota and the Fifth symphony by Shostakovich.

I have heard some perfomance of the Fifth by Beethoven with Muti an CSO on the Youtube - and it was quite middle of the road, I suppose.

Though, it is still interesting to hear this orchestra, I have a recent CD with them and Haitink (Bruckner's 7th) and even on CD the orchestra is great.


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