# Mahler Symphony 2



## DavidA

The mighty 'Resurrection' symphony. What are your favourite recordings and why?


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## Merl

Walter, Rattle (BPO), Fischer, Chailly, Kubelik and Tennstedt, off the top of my head.


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## Barbebleu

Bernstein and Kubelik.

Reason? Who knows why anything resonates with you. Bernstein was the first one I heard so it's my imprint. Kubelik is just such a faithful interpreter and it sounds right.


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## CnC Bartok

Klemperer, Rattle, Solti's earlier recording are the best for me.

I also still enjoy the famous (infamous???) first recording done by Gilbert Kaplan. It really feels like a real "event"!


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## realdealblues

Off the top of my head...

Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra
Klemperer/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra [Sony]
Bernstein/London Symphony Orchestra
Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra [DG]
Kubelik/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Walter/New York Philharmonic Orchestra
Solti/London Symphony Orchestra
Levi/Atlanta Symphony
Slatkin/St. Louis Symphony Orchestra
Tennstedt/London Philharmonic Orchestra [Live]
Gielen/Southwest German Radio Symphony Orchestra

Like them all for different reasons. Klemperer would probably be my pick for a "Desert Island". I love the live recording, but the studio has better sound so I would probably take that one. Klemperer looks beyond the surface without rose-tinted glasses and his visceral attack on the nervous system in the first movement is beyond intense. Bernstein's first recording would probably be my next pick. Even though it was still a work in progress for him, Lenny's sense of wonder just creates so much excitement and joy for me that I can hardly contain myself when listening to it.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Barbirolli's 1970 version on EMI's Great Conductors series is in my belief the most exemplary, impassioned version. Klemperer's is close and better recorded, especially the studio version, more monumental and disciplined than Barbirolli. Mehta's is good if you also want great sonics.

Sir John Barbirolli (1970) (EMI)
Otto Klemperer (1965 live) (EMI) 
Otto Klemperer (1962) (EMI) 
Otto Klemperer (1951) (Decca, Archipel, Guild, Verona) 
Hermann Scherchen (1959) (MCA) 
Leopold Stokowski (BBC) 
Leonard Bernstein (1963) (Sony) 
Oskar Fried (Naxos) 
Zubin Mehta (Decca) 
Simon Rattle (EMI) 
Bruno Walter (1957 live) (Music & Arts)
Bruno Walter (1958) (Sony)


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## perdido34

Mehta, Solti/LSO, Honeck/Pittsburgh, Tennstedt/LPO live, Zander


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## mbhaub

Blomstedt/San Francisco (Decca)
Levi/Atlanta (Telarc)


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## mbhaub

perdido34 said:


> Mehta, Solti/LSO, *Honeck/Pittsburgh*, Tennstedt/LPO live, Zander


There's one available?


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## Merl

mbhaub said:


> There's one available?


Only a bootleg.


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## Rach Man

> Quote Originally Posted by perdido34 View Post
> Mehta, Solti/LSO, *Honeck/Pittsburgh*, Tennstedt/LPO live, Zander





mbhaub said:


> There's one available?


Actually, Honeck and the PSO were planning on recording a live Mahler 2 in June of 2017. But they decided not to do it a few weeks before the concert. I don't know what changed their minds. But I was at one of the Mahler 2 concerts at Heinz Hall and it was spectacular. It's a shame that it wasn't recorded.


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## mbhaub

And the historical choice:








One of the first. And like the 1st with Mitropoulos, from Minneapolis. Any doubts about Ormandy's ability with Mahler are swept aside.


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## Vasks

I first acquired the Bernstein on LP back in the early 70's. Wonderful and the first movement is still a knockout for me. 

Then later on the 90's I also got the Slatkin Telarc which received great reviews when it was first issued.

I follow my score and he stays true to Mahler's markings and the sound is glorious.

So much for recordings. To me this is Mahler's best symphony. The final section that builds and builds from many flats to one less and then one less until the tonic of E-flat arrives is unbelievable up-lifting. I get goosebumps every time I hear this symphony's closing measures.


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## SONNET CLV

Rach Man said:


> Actually, Honeck and the PSO were planning on recording a live Mahler 2 in June of 2017. But they decided not to do it a few weeks before the concert. I don't know what changed their minds. But I was at one of the Mahler 2 concerts at Heinz Hall and it was spectacular. It's a shame that it wasn't recorded.


I, too, heard Honeck and the PSO in a concert performance of the Mahler Second at Heinz Hall. Stunning.

For now, my favorite version, possibly only for sentimental reasons, remains the Walter/NYP recording on Columbia.









I say "for sentimental reasons" because it is the first Mahler I ever heard (back in the 1960's) and I have been a Mahler worshipper ever since, and especially love the great "Resurrection" Symphony. I have quite a few versions on my record and CD shelves, but none ever strikes the same chord of sheer awe that the Bruno Walter recording did in my youth, though I must admit I am always awe struck by this symphony. I have owned a copy of the score for decades (it is one of the first symphony scores I ever purchased for pure study) and I have combed through it numerous times; I often listen to the second with this score in hand. I sometimes wonder if I ever hear any other version aside from the Bruno Walter, which I'm sure replays in my memory every time I strike the needle to the vinyl or push the start button on my CD deck to start up this symphony. In any case, I'm convinced that if that is the _only_ version one ever hears, it is enough. Mahler for the ages.

But, I, too, await a Honeck/PSO Mahler Second on disc.


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## MarkW

Minority opinion: Although many appear to accord it the summit of Mahler's achievement, or even a high place among all pieces ever composed, it's not even in my personal First Division of Mahler's works. Just my opinion, however. Your results may vary.


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## SixFootScowl




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## Larkenfield

I think Mahler would say that his summit was his 8th, which was dedicated to his wife in order to win in her back, because his conception was so exalted and large, not to say ambitious. For me, his 2nd is just too early in the entire cycle for it to be his summit, though it’s perhaps his most popular and often performed symphony. But I don’t see that as the summit of his development. I’m more inclined to choose either his 6th or 7th when I believe he was at the peak of his creative powers, certainly in depth and complexity. I think the 8th is less popular now, although his most successful symphony while he was alive, because the first movement’s sentiments may just not seem as characteristic of Mahler as with his other symphonies. But in favor of the 2nd, Bruno Walter performed it more than any other Mahler symphony as conductor of the New York Phil after Mahler died.


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## Brahmsianhorn

MarkW said:


> Minority opinion: Although many appear to accord it the summit of Mahler's achievement, or even a high place among all pieces ever composed, it's not even in my personal First Division of Mahler's works. Just my opinion, however. Your results may vary.


I prefer the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and DLVDE to the 2nd. I don't dislike it. It's just just not as deeply moving to me as many of his other works.


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## SixFootScowl

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I prefer the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and DLVDE to the 2nd. I don't dislike it. It's just just not as deeply moving to me as many of his other works.


That said, would you happen to have a favorite 2nd?


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## david johnson

Klemperer/Philharmonia, Klemperer/VSO, Solti/LSO...I have a few others.


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## So Provincial

Mahler 2. 

I have Kaplan's second version on DG and what a peculiar recording it is. Sounds is awesome and all the right notes are played in all the right places but the performance seems to lack any soul whatsoever. It's quite a strange experience listening to it. I can't recommend it as a first choice - or even a second - but I think all fans of Mahler 2 just give it at least one hearing.

I always enjoy listening to Rattle's version with the CBSO. He finds a refreshing way to put old wine into new bottles. Not heard any of his subsequent versions but if they are an improvement on the 1987 version they would be required listening.

My favourite has to be Kubelik who is quite fleet of foot with his Mahler. It never drags and Kubelik just lets the composer's score speak for itself.

I have it as part of the DG boxed set (can't get along with his version of the fifth, but the ninth is top drawer) which has just been given a super-duper remaster.

In all the reviews it mentions Blu-ray, which I thought was upgraded DVD

Would the new version be playable on my CD player, which is a Marantz 003, which I bought in 2007?

I'd be very grateful if anybody could let me know.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Fritz Kobus said:


> That said, would you happen to have a favorite 2nd?


See previous page.

I definitely think Mahler peaked with DLVDE and the 9th, his two supreme works.


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## philoctetes

Walter is my favorite and could be my favorite Mahler recording of all - it has a charge of lightning like no other I've heard. I generally prefer the earlier lieder and symphonies more than his later mood wallowers. As much as may admire Das Lied, I just lose patience sometimes...

With composers like Mahler, Debussy and Bruckner, not so generationally distant, I keep hanging onto the recordings from those who knew them or premiered their work on radio and vinyl. I haven't taken that step yet with Sibelius but it's inevitable...


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## DarkAngel

Solti insisted on another take from Decca for 2nd, this final one at Medinah Temple venue Chicago (he was not satisfied with original recording) and he made quite a statement...........

This one has a conclusion that captures the rapture, the blinding glory and power of leaving this mortal world and experiencing the infinite beyond, a vision beyond human description.....Solti triumphs here making most other versions seem like tepid affairs with no concept of what is being depicted musically, the final here blazes like a supernova and sweeps us away

Decca should remaster this treasure and include a blu ray 24/96 version


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## DavidA

I have various recordings of the 2nd

Mehta and the VPO. Really fine and fiery

Kubelik - one of the best Mahlerians. 

Klemperer - he knew Mahler so suff said

Barbirolli - sensational performance with BPO


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## Malx

So Provincial said:


> Mahler 2.
> 
> _I have Kaplan's second version on DG and what a peculiar recording it is. Sounds is awesome and all the right notes are played in all the right places but the performance seems to lack any soul whatsoever. It's quite a strange experience listening to it. I can't recommend it as a first choice - or even a second - but I think all fans of Mahler 2 just give it at least one hearing.
> _
> I always enjoy listening to Rattle's version with the CBSO. He finds a refreshing way to put old wine into new bottles. Not heard any of his subsequent versions but if they are an improvement on the 1987 version they would be required listening.
> 
> My favourite has to be Kubelik who is quite fleet of foot with his Mahler. It never drags and Kubelik just lets the composer's score speak for itself.
> 
> I have it as part of the DG boxed set (can't get along with his version of the fifth, but the ninth is top drawer) which has just been given a super-duper remaster.
> 
> In all the reviews it mentions Blu-ray, which I thought was upgraded DVD
> 
> Would the new version be playable on my CD player, which is a Marantz 003, which I bought in 2007?
> 
> I'd be very grateful if anybody could let me know.


Kaplan's Vienna recording reminds me of a clinical dissection for students - its all very precise and analytical but with no feeling for the body of the work.


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## Malx

I've just had a disc count and realised I have 34 recordings of this wonderful symphony, which are my favourites?

I really can't answer that as it changes regularly but there are a number I will mention that I return to frequently - Klemperer Live with the BRSO and as more modern alternatives I rate Boulez and Levi. For a couple out of left field try Otmar Suitner with the Staatskapelle Dresden and I have a soft spot for the lyrical performance from the Czech PO and Neumann on Supraphon.

Some of the most recent I have heard but not yet purchased - do I really need them????????


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## Brahmsian Colors

Klemperer/Amsterdam Concertgebouw, mono from 1951. Not especially good sound, but a spellbinding performance
Kubelik/BRSO
Solti/London Symphony
Bernstein/New York Phiharmonic


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## Brahmsianhorn

Haydn67 said:


> Klemperer/Amsterdam Concertgebouw, mono from 1951. Not especially good sound, but a spellbinding performance
> Kubelik/BRSO
> Solti/London Symphony
> Bernstein/New York Phiharmonic


Agreed on the 1951 recording. The first movement is the most intense ever. I did think he found more poetry in the final movement is his later recordings, however.

I would put all three Klemperers at the top were it not for this recording. Note this is NOT the BPO recording on Testament, which was less inspired. This is 1970 in Stuttgardt.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

MarkW said:


> Minority opinion... it's not even in my personal First Division of Mahler's works.


You're not alone in this, don't worry! Don't get me wrong, I think the 2nd symphony is a fine work by many standards but, for me, I much prefer the 3rd and 4th.

To answer the question, my favourite recordings of the 2nd are probably Mehta, Solti (Chicago) and Boulez.


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Agreed on the 1951 recording. The first movement is the most intense ever. I did think he found more poetry in the final movement is his later recordings, however.
> 
> I would put all three Klemperers at the top were it not for this recording. Note this is NOT the BPO recording on Testament, which was less inspired. This is 1970 in Stuttgardt.


Funny but the Barbirolli performances divide opinions. I have read some lousy things but also some race reviews about the Stuttgart performance. Can't judge as haven't heard it. I have the BPO live performance which is pretty cataclysmic in the best possible way. The playing of the Berliners has been questioned but seems fine to me.


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## DavidA

And I was forgetting I have another version boy Stokowski - electrifying!


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## DarkAngel

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> To answer the question, my favourite recordings of the 2nd are probably *Mehta*, Solti (Chicago) and Boulez.


*Solti CSO is my number one* explained a few posts above, I also really like the Mehta VPO and he comes close to Solti's final movement soaring vision.......Solti LSO was a learning exercise for Sir Georg on its own pretty good, but the later CSO shows the greater understanding of final movement vision with more powerful glorious resolution

















Kaplan came out of nowhere with original Conifer LSO performance ,a complete rookie performance that is really very good however his DG follow up with WP is a noticeable step down, a puzzling regression......

















All the Bernstein Mahler 2nds rank very highly with his early NYPO my favorite, plus the complete 1960s NYPO set would be my top choice for single boxset....


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## Bwv 1080

Kubelik, hands down


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## Mifek

Bwv 1080 said:


> Kubelik, hands down


Seconded. If not Kubelik, I would probably have never fallen in love with Mahler's 2nd.


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## DavidA

Mifek said:


> Seconded. If not Kubelik, I would probably have never fallen in love with Mahler's 2nd.


Correct! Me too!


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## Kiki

Mahler 2 is the one that I feel the least affinity with among his symphonies, but this is the one recording that I have enough confidence I can sit through it without getting up. :lol:


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> Funny but the Barbirolli performances divide opinions. I have read some lousy things but also some race reviews about the Stuttgart performance. Can't judge as haven't heard it. I have the BPO live performance which is pretty cataclysmic in the best possible way. The playing of the Berliners has been questioned but seems fine to me.


The BPO is certainly not a bad performance by any stretch, and you cannot go wrong with Janet Baker. The Stuttgart performance is just so overwhelming that I see no reason to go for the BPO unless you are a completist. I find the BPO to be comparatively less inspired, especially in the outer movements.

My recommendation to anyone with this symphony is to get the 1970 Stuttgart Barbirolli and the 1965 Munich Klemperer. Both are excellent in their different ways. If you must have studio sound, then either the 1962 EMI Klemperer or Mehta will do just fine.


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## Merl

Whoops, forgot about this cracker........


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## techniquest

Most of the posts in this interesting thread make recommedations of rather ancient recordings (good as they may be). However, I wonder what would be the best of the more recent recordings; and why?
I agree with some above that the Rattle/CBSO recording is superb, though I know others really don't like it. I like Tennstedt's live LPO recording and also, while considering live recordings, Oleg Caetani on ARTS (though only for the 5th movement). I'll also wave a flag for Benjamin Zander on Telarc.


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## Brahmsianhorn

techniquest said:


> Most of the posts in this interesting thread make recommedations of rather ancient recordings (good as they may be). However, I wonder what would be the best of the more recent recordings; and why?
> I agree with some above that the Rattle/CBSO recording is superb, though I know others really don't like it. I like Tennstedt's live LPO recording and also, while considering live recordings, Oleg Caetani on ARTS (though only for the 5th movement). I'll also wave a flag for Benjamin Zander on Telarc.


The 60s and 70s are ancient? Wow, most of my favorite recordings are from the 30s and 40s. What does that make me? lol


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## Merl

techniquest said:


> Most of the posts in this interesting thread make recommedations of rather ancient recordings (good as they may be). However, I wonder what would be the best of the more recent recordings; and why?
> I agree with some above that the Rattle/CBSO recording is superb, though I know others really don't like it. I like Tennstedt's live LPO recording and also, while considering live recordings, Oleg Caetani on ARTS (though only for the 5th movement). I'll also wave a flag for Benjamin Zander on Telarc.


For newer accounts all these are very good or better....


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## Becca

techniquest said:


> Most of the posts in this interesting thread make recommedations of rather ancient recordings (good as they may be). However, I wonder what would be the best of the more recent recordings; and why?
> I agree with some above that the Rattle/CBSO recording is superb, though I know others really don't like it. I like Tennstedt's live LPO recording and also, while considering live recordings, Oleg Caetani on ARTS (though only for the 5th movement). I'll also wave a flag for Benjamin Zander on Telarc.


While there are many reasons why the likes of Walter, Klemperer and Barbirolli are so often recommended, one notable reason can be summed up in the following table of timings:

Walter/New York P.O. ........ 79:34
Klemperer/Philharmonia ... 79:25
Klemperer/Bavarian .......... 79:26
Barbirolli/Stuttgart ............ 80:55

Bernstein/NYPO (Sony) ..... 84:40
Rattle/CBSO ....................... 85:42
Tennstedt/LPO ................... 89.xx
Bernstein/NYPO (DGG) ...... 93:xx

Notice the gaping hole in timing between those 'rather ancient' recordings (particularly from those who knew and worked with Mahler) and more recent recordings. ... there seems to be a strong tendency to noticeably slow down and, in my opinion, not to the good. Yes there are exceptions, but this is not limited to the 2nd, it is true of others also ... parts of the 5th being a particularly egregious example.

If you are not already familiar with the earlier recordings, you owe it to yourself to listen to them.


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## Azol

I would like to add one more recording to the roster of already mentioned favorites: *Ozawa/Saito Kinen Orchestra*. I consider this Sony affair a very underrated modern live recording. Especially the 1st part is scorching - on par with Solti 1, that's the way I prefer it to sound!


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## Heck148

DarkAngel said:


> This one has a conclusion that captures the rapture, the blinding glory and power of leaving this mortal world and experiencing the infinite beyond, a vision beyond human description.....Solti triumphs here making most other versions seem like tepid affairs with no concept of what is being depicted musically, the final here blazes like a supernova and sweeps us away


Agreed - great performance, my favorite, tho I still greatly enjoy Walter/NYPO, my first exposure to Mahler and his greatness as a composer.


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## Merl

Becca said:


> While there are many reasons why the likes of Walter, Klemperer and Barbirolli are so often recommended, one notable reason can be summed up in the following table of timings:
> 
> Walter/New York P.O. ........ 79:34
> Klemperer/Philharmonia ... 79:25
> Klemperer/Bavarian .......... 79:26
> Barbirolli/Stuttgart ............ 80:55
> 
> Bernstein/NYPO (Sony) ..... 84:40
> Rattle/CBSO ....................... 85:42
> Tennstedt/LPO ................... 89.xx
> Bernstein/NYPO (DGG) ...... 93:xx
> 
> Notice the gaping hole in timing between those 'rather ancient' recordings (particularly from those who knew and worked with Mahler) and more recent recordings. ... there seems to be a strong tendency to noticeably slow down and, in my opinion, not to the good. Yes there are exceptions, but this is not limited to the 2nd, it is true of others also ... parts of the 5th being a particularly egregious example.
> 
> If you are not already familiar with the earlier recordings, you owe it to yourself to listen to them.


Good point, Becca. I'm quite happy to champion new recordings if they're adding to our recording legacy. The tendency to slow down in Mahler is irksome and makes the music drag. The same happened to Beethoven symphonies at the turn of the last century and only now are we getting back up to speed again. Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate and love a slow account but when it becomes the norm it annoys me.


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## Azol

> Bernstein/NYPO (DGG) ...... 93:xx


Fantastic reading, I happened to love both fastest and slowest on the list above, but the first movement is just plain wrong at this tempo.


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## Merl

Totally forgot about this recording (so thanks to a poster on the Mahler 1 thread who mentioned Ozawa). Ive always thought Ozawa's Mahler is underrated but this one is highly recommended by most who've heard it and for good reason - its a cracker! Probably one of the best live 2nds around and Stutzmann and the Saito orchestra are superb.


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## Azol

Glad to see someone appreciating Ozawa's Mahler 2. Actually I mentioned this recording several posts above (#44) in this thread  Brilliant throughout and especially ferocious 1st movement. Love it!


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## Merl

Azol said:


> Glad to see someone appreciating Ozawa's Mahler 2. Actually I mentioned this recording several posts above (#44) in this thread  Brilliant throughout and especially ferocious 1st movement. Love it!


Whoops, sorry Azol. It is a cracker, though.


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## DavidA

DavidA said:


> I have various recordings of the 2nd
> 
> Mehta and the VPO. Really fine and fiery
> 
> Kubelik - one of the best Mahlerians.
> 
> Klemperer - he knew Mahler so nuff said
> 
> Barbirolli - sensational performance with BPO


I must add Stokowski and Tennstedt and Rattle. How they add up!


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## perdido34

Rach Man said:


> Actually, Honeck and the PSO were planning on recording a live Mahler 2 in June of 2017. But they decided not to do it a few weeks before the concert. I don't know what changed their minds. But I was at one of the Mahler 2 concerts at Heinz Hall and it was spectacular. It's a shame that it wasn't recorded.


I was there, too, for the Sunday performance that month. A wonderful performance. Unforetuinately the huge tower chimes overpowered the entire orchestra during the very end of the finale.


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## WaterRat

DarkAngel said:


> Solti insisted on another take from Decca for 2nd, this final one at Medinah Temple venue Chicago (he was not satisfied with original recording) and he made quite a statement...........
> 
> This one has a conclusion that captures the rapture, the blinding glory and power of leaving this mortal world and experiencing the infinite beyond, a vision beyond human description.....Solti triumphs here making most other versions seem like tepid affairs with no concept of what is being depicted musically, the final here blazes like a supernova and sweeps us away
> 
> Decca should remaster this treasure and include a blu ray 24/96 version


My fav 2nd, and Solti's best Mahler.


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## DrSardonicus

Robert Pickett said:


> Klemperer, Rattle, Solti's earlier recording are the best for me.
> 
> I also still enjoy the famous (infamous???) first recording done by Gilbert Kaplan. It really feels like a real "event"!


Forgive my ignorance. What makes it infamous? A shop nearby has a copy of this...


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## Becca

Gilbert Kaplan was a publisher who founded the magazine Institutional Investor, and sold it making a lot of money. He had this thing about Mahler, particularly the 2nd, and used his money to pay someone to teach him how to conduct it. He rented Avery Fisher Hall in NY and the American Symphony Orch. for his 'debut'. He then ended up making a couple of recordings of it. The consensus that I am aware of is that the performances are about what one might expect under the circumstances. Needless to say, there are others out there who disagree.


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## wkasimer

Becca said:


> Gilbert Kaplan was a publisher who founded the magazine Institutional Investor, and sold it making a lot of money. He had this thing about Mahler, particularly the 2nd, and used his money to pay someone to teach him how to conduct it. He rented Avery Fisher Hall in NY and the American Symphony Orch. for his 'debut'. He then ended up making a couple of recordings of it. The consensus that I am aware of is that the performances are about what one might expect under the circumstances. Needless to say, there are others out there who disagree.


The orchestras that Kaplan recorded with were the London Symphony Orchestra and Vienna Philharmonic, both of which would probably have made decent recordings with one of the third stand cellists waving the stick.

I don't think that either recording is essential per se, but the earlier one with the LSO is worth having for the extravagant documentation included with the CD's.


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## DavidA

Becca said:


> Gilbert Kaplan was a publisher who founded the magazine Institutional Investor, and sold it making a lot of money. He had this thing about Mahler, particularly the 2nd, and used his money to pay someone to teach him how to conduct it. He rented Avery Fisher Hall in NY and the American Symphony Orch. for his 'debut'. He then ended up making a couple of recordings of it. The consensus that I am aware of is that the performances are about what one might expect under the circumstances. Needless to say, there are others out there who disagree.


Believe a certain Norman Lebrecht thought it wonderful and wondered why orchestras needed professional conductors. It is a remarkable achievement for an amateur but not really a remarkable performance.


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## Enthusiast

Becca said:


> Walter/New York P.O. ........ 79:34
> Klemperer/Philharmonia ... 79:25
> Klemperer/Bavarian .......... 79:26
> Barbirolli/Stuttgart ............ 80:55
> 
> Bernstein/NYPO (Sony) ..... 84:40
> Rattle/CBSO ....................... 85:42
> Tennstedt/LPO ................... 89.xx
> Bernstein/NYPO (DGG) ...... 93:xx


It is an interesting analysis but the more recent recordings chosen do seem to be ones that come in with unusually long timings. Some more timings (some more recent than others but all, I think, not ancient) are:

Boulez ................... 81:18
Kubelik .................. 70:22
Mehta (Israel PO) .... 77:51
Neumann ............... 75:35
Tennstedt (live) ....... 76:06

All are closer to the ancients and most are shorter. The big differences come from how long the last movement takes.


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## Becca

Enthusiast said:


> It is an interesting analysis but the more recent recordings chosen do seem to be ones that come in with unusually long timings. Some more timings (some more recent than others but all, I think, not ancient) are:
> 
> Boulez ................... 81:18
> Kubelik .................. 70:22
> Mehta (Israel PO) .... 77:51
> Neumann ............... 75:35
> Tennstedt (live) ....... 76:06
> 
> All are closer to the ancients and most are shorter. The big differences come from how long the last movement takes.


You had better check your arithmetic, the two Kubelik recordings are 77 mins (DGG) and 80 mins (Audite - although that may include some applause.) As to the Tennstedt, the idea that his live performance is 13 minutes faster than his studio seems suspect. The one live version I can find (LPO label) is 93 minutes!


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## Enthusiast

Becca said:


> You had better check your arithmetic, the two Kubelik recordings are 77 mins (DGG) and 80 mins (Audite - although that may include some applause.) As to the Tennstedt, the idea that his live performance is 13 minutes faster than his studio seems suspect. The one live version I can find (LPO label) is 93 minutes!


Oops yes. You are right. I am sorry.

I was getting the timings from my itunes library (rather than searching of the CDs) and failed to notice that those two have the last movement divided into more than one "song". So, Tennstedt's live account is indeed very long (nearly 94 minutes) and the Kubelik (DG) one is 76:22 - so still quite rapid. Solti is close to Boulez at 81:03. So the corrected list (with Solti added) is

Boulez ................... 81:18
Kubelik .................. 76:24
Mehta (Israel PO) .... 77:51
Neumann ............... 75:35
Tennstedt (live) ....... 93:56!!!
Solti ....................... 81:03

My fingers are crossed: I _think _that it right, now. It does still seem that the ancients are not so much quicker than more modern accounts.

My memory doesn't work quite as well as it used to (never mind about my arithmetic) and I am trying to match these figures with the impressions I have formed about the different accounts. The true timing for the live Tennstedt seems in line with how I remember it (I like it but it is not a favourite). The Mehta surprises me a little. It is a performance I like a lot but I can't remember finding it so much faster that your ancients. And the Neumann! (I hope I've counted right now ...).


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## Totenfeier

Bruno Walter's NYPO was my first Mahler love.

The Klemperer GROC is damn near unbeatable.

Mehta's STUDIO version with the Israel Philharmonic damn near beats it - right tempo, quick, and just listen to the organ balance in the coda. (I may be the only person on the planet who doesn't much like Mehta/Vienna - just a little too chaotic for my taste).

And it really burns my britches to have to say it, but...ouch...Gergiev, Munich, 2015 live is really, really good.


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## starthrower

I like Gielen, and Tennstedt. I have to listen to my Bernstein DG recording. I don't have the Sony.


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## Guest

This is my favorite symphony. My absolute favorite recording is the Klemperer/BRSO live recording. It is incredible. I honestly like most recordings. I enjoy the Bernstein DG as well. I just purchased the Fischer recording. The Urlicht movement is possibly for me one of the most moving creations in classical music.


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## Merl

just finished listening to Haitink and the RCO's account of the 2nd from the Mahlerfeest set and it's superb. The 3rd movement is just brilliant.


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## rw181383

Besides the many fantastic recordings already mentioned, another vote (Merl mentioned it in post #42) for the Jurowski on LPO:









One of my all-time favorites!


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## DavidA

Totenfeier said:


> Bruno Walter's NYPO was my first Mahler love.
> 
> The Klemperer GROC is damn near unbeatable.
> 
> *Mehta's STUDIO version with the Israel Philharmonic *damn near beats it - right tempo, quick, and just listen to the organ balance in the coda. (I may be the only person on the planet who doesn't much like Mehta/Vienna - just a little too chaotic for my taste).
> 
> And it really burns my britches to have to say it, but...ouch...Gergiev, Munich, 2015 live is really, really good.


Isn't Mehta with the VPO? Tremendous performance


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## CnC Bartok

rw181383 said:


> Besides the many fantastic recordings already mentioned, another vote (Merl mentioned it in post #42) for the Jurowski on LPO:
> 
> View attachment 111938
> 
> 
> One of my all-time favorites!


Well, not a recording I know. Have ordered it, looking forward to hearing this one!


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## DarkAngel

^^^ Agree the *Jurowski LPO* is one of the very best modern recorded M2, still has the raw dramatic excitement when needed, many other new versions are like polished faberge eggs in a museum case......beautiful but too delicate, earthbound instead of soaring to the heavens! 









*Members what is the verdict on Zander hybrid SACD M2 recorded for boutique Linn label?*

Very expensive but HQ samples reveal this maybe the best sound quality 2nd available, his past Telarc Mahler series were usually very good but somewhat overhyped in Amazon reviews me thinks.........


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## DavidA

rw181383 said:


> Besides the many fantastic recordings already mentioned, another vote (Merl mentioned it in post #42) for the Jurowski on LPO:
> 
> View attachment 111938
> 
> 
> One of my all-time favorites!


Picked this up second hand today. Just listened and it gets my vote. Stupendous!


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## Konsgaard

Rattle/CBSO and then Rattle/BPO.


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## CnC Bartok

DavidA said:


> Picked this up second hand today. Just listened and it gets my vote. Stupendous!


Got my copy a few days ago. Worth every penny!! Really great performance.


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## DrSardonicus

CnC Bartok said:


> Got my copy a few days ago. Worth every penny!! Really great performance.


My copy arrived today of the back of these recommendations. Superb recording and performance.


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## DavidA

DrSardonicus said:


> My copy arrived today of the back of these recommendations. Superb recording and performance.


Glad you enjoy it!


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> Got my copy a few days ago. Worth every penny!! Really great performance.


Yay, I always try to recommend stuff that others will like. While some performances / recordings polarise people there are many great accounts that I know people will uniformly agree are just wonderful. This is one of them.


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## DavidA

Merl said:


> Yay, I always try to recommend stuff that others will like. While some performances / recordings polarise people there are many great accounts that I know people will uniformly agree are just wonderful. This is one of them.


Yes it really does tick all the boxes. Really great to see these conductors of the younger generation coming through


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## CnC Bartok

Merl said:


> Yay, I always try to recommend stuff that others will like. While some performances / recordings polarise people there are many great accounts that I know people will uniformly agree are just wonderful. This is one of them.


Well I suppose it's better than recommending with malevolent vitriol......:lol:

I must admit I didn't twig that Jurowski was new-generation. I suppose I subconsciously muddled him up with Marek Janowski, who nowadays isn't! There's a decent generation of Russian conductors coming through, this chap, the two Petrenko's, not bad.....!


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## Kiki

CnC Bartok said:


> Well I suppose it's better than recommending with malevolent vitriol......:lol:
> 
> I must admit I didn't twig that Jurowski was new-generation. I suppose I subconsciously muddled him up with Marek Janowski, who nowadays isn't! There's a decent generation of Russian conductors coming through, this chap, the two Petrenko's, not bad.....!


I admire most of Jurowski's records. He also seems to be rather fond of the Totenfeier of which two recordings (that I know of) are available, one even on period instruments with the OAE! Really refreshing.

Vasily Petrenko is great because he supports Liverpool FC! ........ Seriously I think the standard of playing in his Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky is very high and consistent. Tried to listen to a few of his Mahlers on BBC Radio 3 (hey, it's available worldwide!), but the quality of radio broadcasts always turns me off.... Has anybody heard his Mahler 1 SACD on LAWO? Looks like it's deleted already.

Have to admit I hadn't heard of the other Petrenko before he took the Berlin job. Looks like he might not avoid making records from now on... and he is going to conduct in Mahler Feest 2020. I hope there will be a box set coming out.


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## Becca

Kiki said:


> Have to admit I hadn't heard of the other Petrenko before he took the Berlin job. Looks like he might not avoid making records from now on... and he is going to conduct in Mahler Feest 2020. I hope there will be a box set coming out.


There are a handful of recordings by Kirill Petrenko including a couple of Josef Suk disks which are quite interesting. They were done when he was at the Komische Oper in Berlin.


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## CnC Bartok

Am I allowed to say that those Suk recordings are not that special....? Sorry, but Petrenko stepped into an unbelievably competitive field, doing the three big pieces he did (no Epilog...) Sadly, Suk hasn't yet found a genuine, non-Czech champion, brilliant composer, needs one....


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## brunumb

rw181383 said:


> Besides the many fantastic recordings already mentioned, another vote (Merl mentioned it in post #42) for the Jurowski on LPO:
> 
> View attachment 111938
> 
> 
> One of my all-time favorites!


When the Jurowski M2 first came out I was quick to add it to my collection (now at 63) and was immediately underwhelmed. The first movement is fast and sounds positively driven to the extent that I find it devoid of any emotion. Jurowski's cortege would have to run to keep up with the hearse in this funeral procession. I doubt that it is really meant to be exciting. The rest is OK with nothing particularly distinctive. The soloists are satisfactory, nothing more. Ironically, the conductor with the reputation for being driven, Georg Solti, is actually balm next to Jurowski in the first movement. His LSO recording is still one of the best out there with soloists in Heather Harper and Helen Watts that may have been equaled but never bettered.


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## DavidA

brunumb said:


> When the Jurowski M2 first came out I was quick to add it to my collection (now at 63) and was immediately underwhelmed. The first movement is fast and sounds positively driven to the extent that I find it devoid of any emotion. Jurowski's cortege would have to run to keep up with the hearse in this funeral procession. I doubt that it is really meant to be exciting. The rest is OK with nothing particularly distinctive. The soloists are satisfactory, nothing more. Ironically, the conductor with the reputation for being driven, Georg Solti, is actually balm next to Jurowski in the first movement. His LSO recording is still one of the best out there with soloists in Heather Harper and Helen Watts that may have been equaled but never bettered.
> 
> View attachment 113232


 I think this shows how differently we react to different interpretations and what a subjective thing it is . Also, the fact there is no definitive recording of these works . To me that's a great thing because it means a great variety of interpretations. Interestingly Jurowski takes 21'18' over the first movement whereas Solti is actually faster at 20'43' and Mahler disciple Klemperer takes only 19'03"!
I haven't actually heard the Solti you mention but I will seek to put that right sometime. He did of course record the thing again with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra . How does that compare with the first one?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

DavidA said:


> I haven't actually heard the Solti you mention but I will seek to put that right sometime. He did of course record the thing again with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra . How does that compare with the first one?


The London recording is superior IMHO, with better soloists and chorus. Helen Watts, in particular, is magical in "Urlicht" and she and Heather Harper make a formidable pairing in the final movement. As brunumb said - they may have been equalled, but they haven't been bettered.


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## DavidA

Just listening to Tennstedt with the LPO in the studio. Emotional, gut-wrenching stuff indeed!


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## DarkAngel

DavidA said:


> I haven't actually heard the Solti you mention but I will seek to put that right sometime. He did of course record the thing again with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra . How does that compare with the first one?


Solti actually insisted Decca to record Chicago 2nd twice with the final one at Medinah temple finally meeting his approval, I like it much better than earlier LSO which by comparison is mild mannered and does not capture the full dramatic magnitude of final scence.

I am much less concerned with solists parts overall compared to choral and orchestral parts, they are like narative that sets the stage for grand finale when the last choral verse is sung:

*With wings, which I have won,
I shall soar upwards
I shall die, to live!

Rise again, yea, thou wilt rise again,
My heart, in the twinkling of an eye!
What thou hast fought for
Shall lead thee to God!

*The chorus stop as we are beyond mortal descriptions, the end of days, the final judgement when all is revealed there is no room here to hold anything back, as with Bruckner only the brass instruments can truely build the towering heavenly spires that touch the stars, here Solti has surpassed all others with dramatic power and an overwhelming vision of divine splendor, earthshaking.........


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## brunumb

DavidA said:


> Interestingly Jurowski takes 21'18' over the first movement whereas Solti is actually faster at 20'43' and Mahler disciple Klemperer takes only 19'03"!


That really surprises me. I haven't listened to the Solti/LSO for a while but have always liked it. After reading the comments on the Jurowski I played the first movement at bedtime the other night and could not help but feel that it was too hurried. Just shows how differently we all may hear the same music.

As an aside, this has reminded me of a lovely performance of Urlicht I found on YouTube. It is a B&W film with Maureen Forrester conducted by Glenn Gould of all people.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Just listened to entire Janowski and was sorely disappointed after reading the comments here. I found it unpowered and bland. Very cleanly recorded and some sensitive playing in the softer sections, but not much else. Just my honest reaction.

I am spoiled by recordings like Barbirolli ‘70 and Klemperer live ‘65. They are jaw-dropping. The Janowski is just not in the same league, not even close really. But if you like it, more power to you.

I’ll need to hear Solti/LSO. I am familiar with the Solti/LSO 1st and found it to be technically virtuosic but not as musically interesting as other interpretations.


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## Barbebleu

DavidA said:


> I think this shows how differently we react to different interpretations and what a subjective thing it is . Also, the fact there is no definitive recording of these works . To me that's a great thing because it means a great variety of interpretations. Interestingly Jurowski takes 21'18' over the first movement whereas Solti is actually faster at 20'43' and Mahler disciple Klemperer takes only 19'03"!
> I haven't actually heard the Solti you mention but I will seek to put that right sometime. He did of course record the thing again with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra . How does that compare with the first one?


I agree with Reichstag. The LSO version is great.


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## NLAdriaan

For the Spotifyers here, you might try Gatti (the 'shortlived' former Chief of the RCO). Gatti is great in its overall structuring of the 2nd and slowly builds up to a grand resurrection. I was in the audience when he played this and it was a most memorable night... In many Mahler interpretations, I miss what Gatti offers here. true understanding of the music and a clear overview on the entire symphony. Not many conductors reach this level of structuring and the incredible quality of the RCO makes it possible to play it accordingly.


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## Becca

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Just listened to entire Janowski and was sorely disappointed after reading the comments here. I found it unpowered and bland. Very cleanly recorded and some sensitive playing in the softer sections, but not much else. Just my honest reaction.
> 
> I am spoiled by recordings like Barbirolli '70 and Klemperer live '65. They are jaw-dropping. The Janowski is just not in the same league, not even close really. But if you like it, more power to you.
> 
> I'll need to hear Solti/LSO. I am familiar with the Solti/LSO 1st and found it to be technically virtuosic but not as musically interesting as other interpretations.


Marek Janowski or Vladimir Jurowski? The previous discussions were about the latter.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Becca said:


> Marek Janowski or Vladimir Jurowski? The previous discussions were about the latter.


Vladimir

I just finished listening to Solti I. Much better than Jurowski. Orchestral and choral contributions are exemplary as you would expect. I wouldn't blame anyone for making this a central recommendation even though I still get more satisfaction musically from Barbirolli, Klemperer, Scherchen, Stokowski, Rattle, Mehta, Bernstein I, and Walter.


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Just listened to entire Janowski and was sorely disappointed after reading the comments here. I found it *unpowered and bland.* Very cleanly recorded and some sensitive playing in the softer sections, but not much else. Just my honest reaction.
> 
> I am spoiled by recordings like Barbirolli '70 and Klemperer live '65. They are jaw-dropping. The Janowski is just not in the same league, not even close really. But if you like it, more power to you.
> 
> I'll need to hear Solti/LSO. I am familiar with the Solti/LSO 1st and found it to be technically virtuosic but not as musically interesting as other interpretations.


Are you sure your hi-fi is working properly? Anything but underpowered to me!

I enjoy Barbirolli and Klemperer but they are very different. But as they are both older recordings that I know works to their advantage with you.


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## DavidA

Interesting this was voted 4th greatest symphony of all time

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...oica-greatest-symphony-vote-bbc-mozart-mahler


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## Becca

DavidA said:


> Are you sure your hi-fi is working properly? Anything but underpowered to me!
> .


Why is it that you often assume that there must be something wrong when others have a different opinion from you?


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> Are you sure your hi-fi is working properly? Anything but underpowered to me!
> 
> I enjoy Barbirolli and Klemperer but they are very different. *But as they are both older recordings that I know works to their advantage with you.*


They are both overwhelming, powerful experiences whereas Jurowski by direct comparison is not. Has nothing to do with age of the recording. I would love to hear a performance on the level of Barbirolli or Klemperer in modern sound.

Sorry that my opinion offends you to the point of demeaning it.


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> Interesting this was voted 4th greatest symphony of all time
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...oica-greatest-symphony-vote-bbc-mozart-mahler


Not even the 4th greatest Mahler symphony. I rank the 9th, 6th, 5th, and 7th above it, maybe even the 3rd and 4th.


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## DavidA

Becca said:


> Why is it that you often assume that there must be something wrong when others have a different opinion from you?


Because the last thing you would say about that performance is that it was underpowered. Nearly blew my speakers off the wall!


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> They are both overwhelming, powerful experiences whereas Jurowski by direct comparison is not. Has nothing to do with age of the recording. I would love to hear a performance on the level of Barbirolli or Klemperer in modern sound.
> 
> Sorry that my opinion offends you to the point of demeaning it.


You don't offend me at all. I just think you are quite wrong about Jurowski. So incidentally does the Classical Music Guide of 2012 which rates Jurowski as a top choice. 'A performance of revelations, big and small, and easily the most illuminating to have appeared on disc for a very long time.' In fact they say the opposite to you. Of course, not everyone agrees but your attempt to 'demean' just doesn't work with me, I'm afraid!
I have both Barbirolli and Klemperer btw and enjoy them both. I must be a lucky person in that I can enjoy different approaches to the same music, both ancient and modern!


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Not even the 4th greatest Mahler symphony. I rank the 9th, 6th, 5th, and 7th above it, maybe even the 3rd and 4th.


Oh you are going against the grain again. It is one of Mahler's best and most accessible. Terrific stuff! Of course, the aforementioned poll was from conductors so they might see things differently.


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> Because the last thing you would say about that performance is that it was underpowered. Nearly blew my speakers off the wall!


Well, I listened to the whole thing and it is a comparatively gentle, underpowered reading. The very first chord is quite impressive. Unfortunately the work does not end there.


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## Becca

DavidA said:


> Because the last thing you would say about that performance is that it was underpowered. Nearly blew my speakers off the wall!


That maybe the last thing that *you* would say about it, others, however, are under no requirement to agree with you. Implying that there must be something wrong because they disagree is, as already noted, demeaning.


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Well, I listened to the whole thing and it is a comparatively gentle, underpowered reading. The very first chord is quite impressive. Unfortunately the work does not end there.


I just wondered what you listened to it on? I see ands hear it quite differently. But then it is a modern recording.


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## DavidA

Becca said:


> That maybe the last thing that *you* would say about it, others, however, are under no requirement to agree with you. Implying that there must be something wrong because they disagree is, as already noted, demeaning.


People can disagree with me all they like. I don't set myself up as an expert. Just a layman who enjoys music. Just when someone says it was 'underpowered' when it nearly blew my speakers off the wall I just wonder what they were listening to and what equipment they were using
.


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## Brahmsianhorn

DavidA said:


> People can disagree with me all they like. I don't set myself up as an expert. Just a layman who enjoys music. Just when someone says it was 'underpowered' when it nearly blew my speakers off the wall I just wonder what they were listening to and what equipment they were using
> .


But then you will claim that I am incapable of appreciating a modern recording. That is false. It is my honest opinion based on what I hear. It seems as though you cannot handle difference of opinion so you try to invent an alternate reason behind my opinion. That is disrespectful.


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## DavidA

Brahmsianhorn said:


> But then you will claim that I am incapable of appreciating a modern recording. That is false. It is my honest opinion based on what I hear. It seems as though you cannot handle difference of opinion so you try to invent an alternate reason behind my opinion. That is disrespectful.


Not at all. It is not at all disrespectful when you say a recording is 'underpowered' when it nearly blew my speakers out to question just how you were listening to it. And I certainly didn't 'invent' another opinion. The remarks I made were from comments you had made. With respect, and from comments others have made, it doesn't appear that difference of opinion comes easily to you either. But I don't want to enter into a row on line. You have your opinion, friend, and I'll have mine.


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## Larkenfield

DavidA said:


> People can disagree with me all they like. I don't set myself up as an expert. Just a layman who enjoys music. Just when someone says it was 'underpowered' when it nearly blew my speakers off the wall I just wonder what they were listening to and what equipment they were using
> .


I haven't heard the recording under discussion nor am I taking sides, but under-powered is not necessarily related to volume or loudness; it can be related to the intensity of the performance at lower volume levels, and sometimes a performance may be under-powered in that sense. The subtleties of a performance are endless.


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## Oldhoosierdude

I quite enjoy Berstein's NYPO recording and Kaplan's LSO recording and always have a soft spot for Abravenel and the Utah Symphony.

I understand Kaplan was not a professional conductor and gets criticism for buying his performances and recordings. But would you live your expensive dream if you had the money?

He hurt nothing and no one. More power to him.


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## Becca

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I understand Kaplan was not a professional conductor and gets criticism for buying his performances and recordings. But would you live your expensive dream if you had the money?


Quite possibly ... but expecting others to buy it also?? Let's see, I have a choice of Walter, Klemperer, Barbirolli, Kubelik, Bernstein, Gielen, Abbado, etc., etc. ... and Kaplan ...


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## DavidA

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I quite enjoy Berstein's NYPO recording and Kaplan's LSO recording and always have a soft spot for Abravenel and the Utah Symphony.
> 
> I understand Kaplan was not a professional conductor and *gets criticism for buying his performances and recordings.* But would you live your expensive dream if you had the money?
> 
> He hurt nothing and no one. More power to him.


His recording actually became a best seller at the time. Nothing wrong with what the did. People didn't have to buy it. But of course people like this attract the envy of the less successful.


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## Oldhoosierdude

DavidA said:


> His recording actually became a best seller at the time. Nothing wrong with what the did. People didn't have to buy it. But of course people like this attract the envy of the less successful.


He was definitely a 1%'er and I am not a big lover of corrupt corporate America (or our over reaching governments). I quite like the passion and dedication of that first recording. But hey, everyone can like what they like.


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## mbhaub

Oldhoosierdude said:


> He was definitely a !%'er and I am not a big lover of corrupt corporate America (or our over reaching governments). I quite like the passion and dedication of that first recording. But hey, everyone can like what they like.


Yes, Kaplan was a 1%'er. There is NOTHING to suggest he was in any way corrupt. He started his own financial publishing company and worked his butt off making it a success. He sold it, for less than $100, which hardly put him in the class of Bezos, Gates, or Trump. All people who like Mahler's music should be grateful for his dedication to the composer. He was not the first, nor the last, person to use his own financial resources to indulge in his desire to conduct. Thomas Beecham?


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## Oldhoosierdude

mbhaub said:


> Yes, Kaplan was a 1%'er. There is NOTHING to suggest he was in any way corrupt. He started his own financial publishing company and worked his butt off making it a success. He sold it, for less than $100, which hardly put him in the class of Bezos, Gates, or Trump. All people who like Mahler's music should be grateful for his dedication to the composer. He was not the first, nor the last, person to use his own financial resources to indulge in his desire to conduct. Thomas Beecham?


Sorry, I should warn people that I am an Anarchist.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Nothing much wrong with Kaplan's recordings, particularly his first. I wouldn't put any of them in my top tier, but they're perfectly respectable renditions nonetheless, and quite remarkable for an amateur.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

mbhaub said:


> He was not the first, nor the last, person to use his own financial resources to indulge in his desire to conduct. Thomas Beecham?


... and his money came from drugs!


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## wkasimer

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Nothing much wrong with Kaplan's recordings, particularly his first. I wouldn't put any of them in my top tier, but they're perfectly respectable renditions nonetheless, and quite remarkable for an amateur.


And the documentation is so good that it's earned a place on the shelf next to Barbirolli, Klemperer, Walter, et al.


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## DavidA

Oldhoosierdude said:


> He was definitely a 1%'er and I am not a big lover of corrupt corporate America (or our over reaching governments). I quite like the passion and dedication of that first recording. But hey, everyone can like what they like.


As I said, people don't like success.


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## DavidA

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> ... and his money came from drugs!


Laxitives to be precise which were sold to the British armed forces!


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## CnC Bartok

Beecham's Pills they are a wonder
Make you sh&t and f#£t like thunder
Pull the chain and all goes under
Beecham's Pills they are a wonder......

Now subsumed by Glaxo Smith Kline. Beecham's used his family's fortune to finance his musical ambitions, I don't believe he ever actually worked for the money himself.....


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## DavidA

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Sorry, I should warn people that I am an Anarchist.


So what contribution does your anarchism make to the economy and welfare of the country?


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## DavidA

CnC Bartok said:


> Beecham's Pills they are a wonder
> Make you sh&t and f#£t like thunder
> Pull the chain and all goes under
> Beecham's Pills they are a wonder......
> 
> Now subsumed by Glaxo Smith Kline. Beecham's used his family's fortune to finance his musical ambitions, I don't believe he ever actually worked for the money himself.....


Quite right. However, you can't accuse Beecham of being idle where music was concerned.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

CnC Bartok said:


> Beecham's Pills they are a wonder
> Make you sh&t and f#£t like thunder
> Pull the chain and all goes under
> Beecham's Pills they are a wonder...


They don't make advertising jingles like that anymore!


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## DarkAngel

wkasimer said:


> And the documentation is so good that it's earned a place on the shelf next to Barbirolli, Klemperer, Walter, et al.


I started with the standard Conifer CD set but later got that deluxe set used with score booklet and 
media disc.....(we shall not mention the let down of his later WP recording on DG)










I finally took the expensive plunge with the Zander 2nd on audiophile boutique label Linn, mostly because it has the best sound quality I have yet heard for M2, awaiting delivery from Presto UK......unfortunately not available for HD streaming on Tidal


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## Larkenfield

Zander ’s performance of the Mahler’s 9th is also excellent, not nearly mentioned enough on lists, and recorded in outstanding sound. He has a genuine feel for the composer.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

DarkAngel said:


> I finally took the expensive plunge with the Zander 2nd on audiophile boutique label Linn, mostly because it has the best sound quality I have yet heard for M2, awaiting delivery from Presto UK...


I edited the album art myself when I realised that they'd printed the cover back-to-front. Here's my version, with Zander the right way round:


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## CnC Bartok

Sorry, I prefer the original album cover. Makes him look left-handed, which is stupendously superior 

Zander's Mahler 3 is immensely satisfying too. Actually, despite not usually enjoying these sorts of things, I did get a lot out of the third disc therein, his lecture/talk with musical examples.


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## Becca

CnC Bartok said:


> Makes him look left-handed, which is stupendously superior


.....................


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## Oldhoosierdude

DavidA said:


> So what contribution does your anarchism make to the economy and welfare of the country?


We should probably discuss that elsewhere. Sorry I brought it up.


----------

