# Single Round: Il est doux. Lawrence and Farrell



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry about 3 soprano contests in a row but I thought this contest that I am so proud of had died as I couldn't find selections in regular Youtube. It was a big part of why I was having a bad day yesterday. I had been looking forward to sharing this for some time. Shaughnessy is my knight in shining armor for rescuing this contest for me. Why is it so special? It is a gorgeous aria few big names have recorded. One of them was Marjorie Lawrence, the great Wagnerian at the Met, who recorded very very little. To me her voice has some similarities to another great Wagnerian, Eileen Farrell. The difference to me is Farrell's voice on record sounded much bigger. Farrell sings with great lyric beauty but at the end unleashes one of the greatest torrents of soprano sound I've ever heard. Someone recently said Farrell's voice doesn't sound very big. He had obviously never heard this. I think this is a great contest of a rarely recorded aria by two first rate sopranos. Enjoy. You may have trouble deciding the winner.




Marjorie Lawrence Herodiad 1945




Soprano Vocals: Eileen Farrell Orchestra: Philharmonia Orchestra Conductor: Thomas Schippers


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

At times I though she was going to launch into _“Pourquoi me réveiller,” _but Marjorie Lawrence sounds more urgent, almost agitated in a passage that speaks how nice it is to rest under the shade. The voice, as distantly recorded, is warm, feminine, firm and slender, not at all the Wagnerian one expects, but in her day I suppose she wasn’t categorized.

Farrell is recorded closer, the familiar beauty is presented with more immediacy than was possible and she is more mindful and careful with dynamics - I suspect Lawrence to be more spontaneous. Farrell, in comparison is more placid generally. Hard to vote.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> At times I though she was going to launch into _“Pourquoi me réveiller,” _but Marjorie Lawrence sounds more urgent, almost agitated in a passage that speaks how nice it is to rest under the shade. The voice, as distantly recorded, is warm, feminine, firm and slender, not at all the Wagnerian one expects, but in her day I suppose she wasn’t categorized.
> 
> Farrell is recorded closer, the familiar beauty is presented with more immediacy than was possible and she is more mindful and careful with dynamics - I suspect Lawrence to be more spontaneous. Farrell, in comparison is more placid generally. Hard to vote.


Hard to vote. Yes.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Farrell recording is much clearer and her voice is well caught in all its security and beauty, but there is something I like better about Lawrence, though she is more distantly recorded. Lawrence studied in Paris and it shows. She not only sings the language impeccably but you really feel she knows what she is singing about.

I loved both versions, but the Lawrence "spoke" to me more.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

This is one of those contests which could have used a third choice - "Both" which would have been my choice - I'm going to give each a second and perhaps a third listen. Then I'll check back here and see which way the wind is blowing which will largely determine which bandwagon to jump onto.

By the way, "bandwagon" isn't being used figuratively... there's an actual bandwagon that you can jump onto... As you've probably guessed by now... I'm driving it... and my wife is sitting next to me and she has tears in her eyes and she's saying "Shaughnessy, I think we're lost, please, stop and ask for directions..." and I'm like - "Have no fear, lass, I think we're almost there, this is starting to look familiar..."


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> This is one of those contests which could have used a third choice - "Both" which would have been my choice - I'm going to give each a second and perhaps a third listen. Then I'll check back here and see which way the wind is blowing which will largely determine which bandwagon to jump onto.
> 
> By the way, "bandwagon" isn't being used figuratively... there's an actual bandwagon that you can jump onto... As you've probably guessed by now... I'm driving it... and my wife is sitting next to me and she has tears in her eyes and she's saying "Shaughnessy, I think we're lost, please, stop and ask for directions..." and I'm like "Lass, have no fear, I think we're almost there, this is starting to look familiar..."


How often did you kiss that Blarney Stone? 😂


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


It's on Elsa Dreisig's first recital album. I don't know if you've heard of her, but I've been quite impressed by her on disc. I prefer her version to Farrell's. She sounds younger, which indeed she should. I think Lawrence sounds younger too, which is quite possibly why I preferred her version too. Dreisig is Danish/French and she too uses the words beautifully.








I know Gheorghiu and Fleming have both recorded it and I see there's also a version by Grace Moore on youtube. I used to have Régine Crespin singing it on LP.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


Fleming sang Salome in *Herodiade *here - her recording is from that production. Previously, I had not heard it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Fleming sang Salome in *Herodiade *here - her recording is from that production. Previously, I had not heard it.


Yeah, I've seen that. You've seen EVERYTHING!!!!! LOL. I think looking back I LOVED Farrell's version on an LP a friend gave me and when I looked to find who sang it I stopped at Marjorie Lawrence as I wanted her in a contest and she recorded few things.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's on Elsa Dreisig's first recital album. I don't know if you've heard of her, but I've been quite impressed by her on disc. I prefer her version to Farrell's. She sounds younger, which indeed she should. I think Lawrence sounds younger too, which is quite possibly why I preferred her version too. Dreisig is Danish/French and she too uses the words beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Upon your recommendation I have added her to 3 contests.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's on Elsa Dreisig's first recital album. I prefer her version to Farrell's.


Really? I’m quite surprised.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Really? I’m quite surprised.


Yes. I prefer her lighter voice and she makes more of the words. She is much more my idea of the young Salome. Farrell always sounds a bit matronly to me, or at least she can't disguise the fact she is a mature woman.

I've actually been pretty impressed by Dreisig. She is one of the few sopranos around today who really connects with the music she is singing and in this recital she presents a gallery of different characters. This was her first recital and she was still in her early twenties, but I thought she showed more than promise.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes. I prefer her lighter voice and she makes more of the words. She is much more my idea of the young Salome. Farrell always sounds a bit matronly to me, or at least she can't disguise the fact she is a mature woman.
> 
> I've actually been pretty impressed by Dreisig. She is one of the few sopranos around today who really connects with the music she is singing and in this recital she presents a gallery of different characters. This was her first recital and she was still in her early twenties, but I thought she showed more than promise.


I always prefer more matronly mature voices. I guess I am an old soul. Maybe just old.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes. I prefer her lighter voice and she makes more of the words. She is much more my idea of the young Salome. Farrell always sounds a bit matronly to me, or at least she can't disguise the fact she is a mature woman.
> 
> I've actually been pretty impressed by Dreisig. She is one of the few sopranos around today who really connects with the music she is singing and in this recital she presents a gallery of different characters. This was her first recital and she was still in her early twenties, but I thought she showed more than promise.


Is sounding matronly the worst quality one can have as a singer in the UK? 😂


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Is sounding matronly the worst quality one can have as a singer in the UK? 😂


For certain roles yes. What has location got to do with it?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> For certain roles yes. What has location got to do with it?


It does seem a fairly British thing, or more generally a rather northern European and to an extent North American thing to focus on ideals of purity and youth in the arts. Or at least it was, especially when these operas were written. But it is still evident in critics vocal preferences. Although personally it doesn't matter as much to me as a fair amount of others, and I'm British myself. I don't want old voices singing younger parts but Eileen Farrell doesn't sound old, in fact her age would never really occur to me, neither would the ages of Tebaldi, Callas, Nilsson, Flagstad, Ponselle, Sayao, Del Monaco, Di Stefano, Tibbett etc. I can't think of any singer with a well schooled voice who has sounded too old for me in their prime. I wouldn't want Flagetad singing Butterfly but a preference for a lighter voice is more than just a preference for a 'younger' voice. Some singers do sound too elderly for me for younger roles, Sutherland (post early 60s), many modern singers, Windgassen, Hotter etc. but this can usually be chalked down to vocal defects.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> For certain roles yes. What has location got to do with it?


Not meant as an insult, just that you’ve used it as a reason for eliminating some singers in the competition…


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I chose Marjorie Lawrence, because the lighter color of her voice is easier to associate with a very young girl who is going to be badly manipulated. But that's about it, they are both very good.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


No, I wasn't.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> It does seem a fairly British thing, or more generally a rather northern European and to an extent North American thing to focus on ideals of purity and youth in the arts. Or at least it was, especially when these operas were written. But it is still evident in critics vocal preferences. Although personally it doesn't matter as much to me as a fair amount of others, and I'm British myself. I don't want old voices singing younger parts but Eileen Farrell doesn't sound old, in fact her age would never really occur to me, neither would the ages of Tebaldi, Callas, Nilsson, Flagstad, Ponselle, Sayao, Del Monaco, Di Stefano, Tibbett etc. I can't think of any singer with a well schooled voice who has sounded too old for me in their prime. I wouldn't want Flagetad singing Butterfly but a preference for a lighter voice is more than just a preference for a 'younger' voice. Some singers do sound too elderly for me for younger roles, Sutherland (post early 60s), many modern singers, Windgassen, Hotter etc. but this can usually be chalked down to vocal defects.


I don't think I explained myself properly, so let me try and do so now.

Matronly is probably not the right word in this instance, and it's not really about age either. Some singers, Erna Berger and Bidu Sayão for instance, sound perenially young to me, whereas others have always sounded more mature. Aside from the chameleon-voiced Callas, who, though always recognisably herself, could, by some weird alchemy, change the weight and quality of voice so that she could be both the perfect Gilda and the perfect Lady Macbeth, most singers suit certain roles better than others. This is a personal reaction of course, but for me Tebaldi is a Tosca or a Minnie, but not a Butterfly, because the voice sounds too mature, where De Los Angeles, Freni and Scotto do not.

Now I don't know Massenet's *Hérodiade *but I assume that he cast the role as a soprano to provide a contrast to her mother, who is played by a mezzo-soprano and a lighter, brighter voice seems more right to me. I don't know how old Lawrence and Farrell were when they recorded their respected versions of the aria, but Lawrence just _sounds _younger to me, not that Farrell sounds old, which she doesn't. Maybe I should say Lawrence is better at conveying the impression of youth. I have similar problems with Strauss's *Salome*. The orchestration is very heavy, and though Strauss once fancifully touted the idea of Elisabeth Schumann in the role, I doubt she'd have ever been heard above the orchestra. Still, I prefer a voice that can _suggest _youth, such as Welitsch, or Behrens on the Karajan recording, or Stratas in the Friedrich film. Nilsson, who strikes me as the perfect Elektra, just sounds all wrong as Salome to me and I don't enjoy that recording at all.

As @MAS has pointed out above, I've used the word matronly about singers in the past, usually in reference to mezzo-sopranos playing roles like Dalila. Quite a few mezzos who play the role conjure up images of public school matrons with ample bosoms. Maybe some find that image sexy and sensual as well, but I don't, which is why I prefer singers like Verrett and Baltsa in the role.

These days I rarely get to the opera house, partly because tickets are way out of my budget and partly because, on the odd occasions I have forked out a large amount of money I've usually been terribly disappointed, so I spend a good deal of time just listening to opera, where my mind can imagine the action. I prefer to listen to complete operas rather than just isolated arias and it is here that voice character becomes more important to me.

I realise that others have different priorities.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't think I explained myself properly, so let me try and do so now.
> 
> Matronly is probably not the right word in this instance, and it's not really about age either. Some singers, Erna Berger and Bidu Sayão for instance, sound perenially young to me, whereas others have always sounded more mature. Aside from the chameleon-voiced Callas, who, though always recognisably herself, could, by some weird alchemy, change the weight and quality of voice so that she could be both the perfect Gilda and the perfect Lady Macbeth, most singers suit certain roles better than others. This is a personal reaction of course, but for me Tebaldi is a Tosca or a Minnie, but not a Butterfly, because the voice sounds too mature, where De Los Angeles, Freni and Scotto do not.
> 
> ...


I loved reading this insight into your way of approaching listening to opera. It is so very opposite of mine but because of it I can learn so much about the music I didn't know. This archiving and sharing activity I do with the contests is really very similar to what I do on Facebook. I have myriad interests and a big one of mine is interior design. I archive and share a traditional and a contemporary room everyday and I have lots of friends who play. The most interesting one to me is an 82 year old guy in my building who was kicked out of home by abusive parents at 15. Did construction for 2 years. Joined the marines. Worked on oil rigs. Had 5 kids and became a homeless alcoholic who lived on the street for two years.. Cleaned up and did building maintenance. NOT the sort who would be interested in interior design but he gives very straight forward responses and interestingly enough he and I agree quite often. I am surprised at how many of my straight male friends enjoy giving their opinion on interior design as I usually associate the subject being more a women and gay thing. . Not what I would expect. Just like this, opera is so many sided- very similar to life itself. We bring own background and perspective to our enjoying of the art form I learn so much more about life in general hearing everyone's approaches. It amazes me what some of you can see in music that I hear in a different way.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


It certainly died down during the stereo era, though Régine Crespin did the role in an EMI highlights LP:











but few others took it up? (I thought Leontyne Price did it on one of her Prima Donna albums, but no, it was a couple of things from Thais, which she had performed in Chicago and SF in the late '50's). In the electrically-recorded 78 era, though, _World Encyclopedia of Recorded Music_ (WERM) tells me it was recorded by Licia Albanese, Susanne Sten, Rose Bampton, and Grace Moore, and then adds in smaller type Maria Jeritza, Ninon Vallin, Mireille Berthon, A Marilliet, Marise Beaujon, M Fenoyer, "etc.", followed by Kerstin Thorborg (?!) doing it in Swedish -- all presumably from 1926 or so to 1950 -- and then adds Mary Garden with a "historical" icon, so presumably acoustic.

The Ninon Vallin one is good, though without the recit, and with Vallin sounding like she's holding her dynamics in check -- recording engineer's orders? But at any rate she does sound like the young and dewy-eyed jeune-fille that the libretto has her portrayed as, particularly in Act I (which this is) --



Spoiler: Vallin - Il est doux - posting corrected











The Jeritza one, like all her commercial recordings, sounds like that engineer really has her fettered, and she has herself dialed way way back. Has any singer with such a huge reputation ever left such a disappointing body of recordings? I get the impression that she had a big voice with bigger overtones on it, and everyone was afraid that her discs would live through about one playing on people's Victrolas, so she was kept on a tight leash--



Spoiler: Jeritza, Il est doux











The Grace Moore, from 1942, is good but sounds like it would have been better 5 or 10 years earlier (from the Met broadcasts, her Amore dei tre re from 1941 and her Louise from 1943 are excellent, but the Toscas from 1942, 1944, and 1946 are successively less so) --



Spoiler: Grace Moore, Il et doux, 1942











and then there's Mary Garden. That's a ferocious, if even, vibrato, and the accompaniment sounds like the guys who didn't make it into a Salvation Army band, but I keep saying, "hey, THAT bit was good"...



Spoiler: Mary Garden - Il est doux - corrected post


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> It certainly died down during the stereo era, though Régine Crespin did the role in an EMI highlights LP:
> 
> View attachment 177707
> 
> ...


A fun read. Thanks!


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

ewilkros said:


> Spoiler: Vallin - Il est doux - posting corrected
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, I first posted the Jeritza as the Vallin, then Jeritza as Jeritza. It should be fixed now.

.. AND I left off the Mary Garden! It's there now.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> It certainly died down during the stereo era, though Régine Crespin did the role in an EMI highlights LP:
> 
> View attachment 177707
> 
> ...


These were all very interesting, but the one that stood out for me, despite the strictures of the recording and the way the voice was caught by the recording equipment, was Mary Garden, who really made of it something personal and special. It's hard to know from this what she might have sounded like in the theatre but you can hear that there is a real artist and musician at work here. She compelled me to carry on listening.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I love Lawrence and she is one of my favourite Brunhildes. I love the warm tone of her voice and I really enjoyed listening to this. I found her musical interpretation a bit choppy and I wanted her to let go a bit more in this aria though. That said, the voice is very attractive and there's much that I like about her singing here.

I haven't really been able to get into Farrell and I'm definitely not hearing what others here hear when we have her in the contests. However, I thoroughly enjoyed her in this recording. Everything about it is superior to the Lawrence version. This rep really suits her and this is gorgeous singing.

Farrell wins.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Were most of you familiar with this aria? Hardly anyone has recorded it. Massenet wrote some beautiful music


I was, but I only know it from the complete opera which was recorded by Fleming and Studer.

N.


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