# Music similar to Holst's 'Neptune' ... ?



## Marco01 (Apr 18, 2009)

It would be difficult to pick a favourite 'Planet' from the whole suite - I love them all, and each for very different reasons - although I always find Neptune to be the one that I come away from thinking ... wow, that is something else.

It is beautiful, eerie and other-worldly. I would love to here more pieces like this. Any suggestions of works and compoers to check out to hear more in this genre? 

Thanks


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I don't have suggestions for anything else that sounds like Neptune, but I can tell you, hearing this in a live concert with the worldless choir off-stage is incredible. The "special effect" this creates really is "out of this world" and one feels they are experiencing something on another plane of being. I was floored to hear this live.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Im assuming your going for that ethereal, wondrous, "angelic" sound.

May I suggest Faure's Requiem: In Paradisium?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Now that you mention it, I can think of nothing at all resembling _Neptune_. Holst almost invented the genre of ambient music with this, except it seems more important than mere ambience.

Aside from the famous cliches of Ligeti's _Lux Aeterna _and _Requiem_, the closest I can think of at the moment are some segments of Respighi's _Brazillian Impressions_. They have that ethereal quality in a more down to earth way.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Weston said:


> Now that you mention it, I can think of nothing at all resembling _Neptune_. Holst almost invented the genre of ambient music with this, except it seems more important than mere ambience.


Agreed, 100%.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Also if you don't mind movie scores, John Williams' music for Cloud City resembles it quite a bit.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

JoeGreen said:


> Also if you don't mind movie scores, John Williams' music for Cloud City resembles it quite a bit.


Good point...TESB...perhaps his best Star Wars score?


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Yes, possibly.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

JoeGreen said:


> Yes, possibly.


At any rate, good point. The "Cloud City" cue is very similar to Neptune. Williams really absorbed a lot of Holst into his Star Wars scores.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Debussy's Prélude à l´après-midi d'un Faune has a similar dream-like quality to it I think.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

In the CD notes of _The Planets _I own, it says that Holst could possibly have been influenced by *Debussy*'s _Nocturnes_, as he had seen the composer conduct a concert. In particular, the _*Sirenes*_ movement, similarly to _Neptune_, has a wordless choir.

Of course, there are other works with wordless choir which may also be to your taste. Eg. Ravel's _Daphnis et Chloe _(the full choral version, not the suites) & Vaughan Williams' _Symphony No. 7 'Sinfonia Antartica'_ also have wordless choirs, which are employed to create different pictures and moods. Come to think of it, I have all of the works above on CD, so there must be something about them that appeals to me like it does to you.


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Williams' score for _Close Encounters_ is pretty mystic. (I don't know why I didn't think of it during your previous thread ).


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Andre said:


> In the CD notes of _The Planets _I own, it says that Holst could possibly have been influenced by *Debussy*'s _Nocturnes_, as he had seen the composer conduct a concert. In particular, the _*Sirenes*_ movement, similarly to _Neptune_, has a wordless choir.
> 
> Of course, there are other works with wordless choir which may also be to your taste. Eg. Ravel's _Daphnis et Chloe _(the full choral version, not the suites) & Vaughan Williams' _Symphony No. 7 'Sinfonia Antartica'_ also have wordless choirs, which are employed to create different pictures and moods. Come to think of it, I have all of the works above on CD, so there must be something about them that appeals to me like it does to you.


Why, yes! Good answers.


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## Marco01 (Apr 18, 2009)

Excellent suggestions everyone. I will check them out in due course. I love 'Daphnis et Chloe', but have yet to hear the full choral version. And as for Star Wars, I can't remember the theme to Cloud City ... I am now intrigued. I've also heard Respighis 'Fountains of Rome' which I think is fantastic so will definitely check out 'Brazilian Impressions', as well as all of the other suggestions. Thanks


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## Marco01 (Apr 18, 2009)

I have a couple of other pieces to add to this list! Certain similarities can be heard in:


Dance of the Water Spirits - The Perfect Fool (Holst)
Night - Sythian Suite (Prokofiev) (first minute and a bit)

I love this style, the atomsphere and dream-like quality, which is perhaps more evident in the first minute or so of the Night section from the Scythian Suite.

Now thinking of it, Dance of the Water Spirits reminds me a little more of Venus, The Bringer of Peace than of Neptune.


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## Ian Elliott (Nov 15, 2010)

Try Debussy's Sirenes, no. 3 of his Three Nocturnes. Very similar to Neptune in my opinion; even has the wordless women's chorus.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Great topic! This is one of my favorite pieces and I actually wrote a graduate course paper analyzing Neptune and contextualizing it in a larger turn of the 20th century musical interest in music that "escapes" the bounds of one thing or another. Debussy's _Sirines_ and Schoenberg's _Funf Orchesterstuck: Farben_ were Holst's acknowledged influences. The emblematic chord progression from Neptune, g#-min to e-min, is straight from Wagner's Rheingold (specifically the "Tarnhelm" motif), and has latched on to feelings of mystery, evil, and outer-space quite inextricably ever since then.

My immediate recommendations.

**Holst's *own "Betelgeuse," a late member of his "Twelve Songs" that inhabits much the same soundworld and ethos as "Neptune."
**Strauss *, in those parts of _Frau ohne Schatten_ that feature the "Geheimnis" motif or the chorus of unborn children (ick?)
*In very similar vein, the beginning of *Rimsky-Korsakov'*s 3rd Symphony "Antar." Ditto *Dvorak *"Noon-Day Witch"
**RvW *end of _Symphony No. 2 "London"_, and its many aftershocks in the film music world (try Goldsmith's _Alien _"The Landing" score, Williams' _Jaws _"Ben Gardener's Boat"). As has been mentioned, his 7th Symphony ain't far off either.
**Gliere *_The Sirens_ -- a bit of a sideways recommendation, but similar impulse
**Saint-Saens* "Aquarium" from _Carnival of the Animals_ and Tchaikovsky "Sugar Plum Fairies" from _Nutcracker_, as well as certain corners of "Swan Lake" are well known but pretty good precedents.
**Schreker*: Parts of _Die Gezeichneten_, particularly the overture.
**Bartok *the "Elegy" movement from _Concerto for Orchestra_ is written in similar harmonic language. The sixth (?) room from his _Bluebeard's Castle_ even more so.
**Foulds *_3 Mantras from Avatara_ "II. Of Bliss And Vision Of Celestial Avataras" is like a sunny wordless choral cousin of Neptune. Recommended to me by norman_bates in this thread which may be quite apropos of your search.

I actually don't think the Cloud City entry material is the primest example of Williams being influenced by Neptune (wordless female choir aside, I agree with those who've pointed out it bears more of a similarity to the beginning of Sibelius' violin concerto than anything else). The "twinkly" chromatic music that follows the big main-title fanfare with the pan into space is very Neptuney. The descent to the underwater city in "Phantom Menace" (yes I'm a geek) has wordless choir more in line with Holst's style, as do some of the polychords Williams uses extensively in the PrequelL Trilogy.

But you're apt to find the most Neptune-redolent music in the 1st two Harry Potter films, particularly the stuff derived from the "stone" motif of the first. And the most Neptune-infused score I know of is Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion Picture (incidentally one of the finest scores ever!), even though it lacks chorus.

I'll get you more Neptunal examples as soon as I access my music library on a different computer. Can't believe I didn't spot this thread earlier!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Does the Molto Moderato section of Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin fit in this category? You know, that brief section when the Mandarin's head glows and the wordless choir sings.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Some additions, with a somewhat looser relationship to Neptune.

**Holst*:_ Choral Symphony _ 2nd Movement "Ode to A Grecian Urn" is probably the most Neptunian piece in Holsts' output outside the _Planets Suite_. Also in that mode, his _Choral Hymns from the Rig Veda_. Don't know _Savitri _really, but would imagine that's a great place to look too.

**Vaughan Williams*: _Three Shakespeare Songs_, particularly the "Cloud-Capp'd Towers"

**Berg*: _Altenberg Lieder_ (esp "Uber die Grenze"...)and *Schoenberg *SQ #2 4th movement for the more atonal variety.

**Rachmaninoff*: _Francesca di Rimini_: Very dark, churning wordless chorus depicting a descent into hell, I believe.

**Szymanowski*: _Symphony 2_ 1st movement is sustained spookiness.

**Busoni*: _Berceuse Elegiaque_

**Alfven*: _Symphony 4_ has some very eerie wordless solos, though more dramatic than the Holst.

**Feldman*:_ Rothko Chapel_ chilling wordless voices. 




**Enescu*: _Symphony 3_, last movement has wordless choir in a very uncertain mood, though closer to Daphnis than Neptune I think.

**Suk*: _The Ripening_ -- ominous wordless vocals and delicate orchestration at the conclusion. 




**Bartok*: _Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta #III_

**Stravinsky*: _Rite_, Second Part Introduction.

*A lot of *Saariaho's *choral+orchestral music has a Neptunian quality to it as well.


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