# One composer that you like the least AND WHY



## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Everyone, I'd like it if you can name a composer you like the least.

Round 1:

I like Salieri the least because he poisoned Mozart (Miz's Nr. 1). :tiphat:

Get it? :lol:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I like Wagner the least. Didn't he give birth to Hitler, or something?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

^^^^^^^^:lol::lol::lol::lol:^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I like Wagner the least. Didn't he give birth to Hitler, or something?

No... he just made us realize how inconsequential Brahms was.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Damn it! Can there be no mention of Wagner without poor, defenceless Brahms being brought into it?!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I don't like that Bruckner guy, didn't he get turned on by dead people or something?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I like Wagner the least. Didn't he give birth to Hitler, or something?


A common misconception. Hitler died in 1883, Wagner wasn't even born until 1889.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> I don't like that Bruckner guy, didn't he get turned on by dead people or something?


And that just goes to show how different biography is from art. Bruckner's symphonies are wonderful, grand, noble creatures, no connection with Anton's weird necro-quirks.

Anyway, I don't like Saint-Saens because he was a pedophile. (Oh, what a give-away!!)

(He did apparently actually say to someone, "I'm not gay; I just like young boys." (I just googled this, though, and the first thing I found has it like this, on accused of sodomy, Saint-Saens vehemently denied it, saying he was not a ******** but a pedophile.))


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

some guy said:


> And that just goes to show how different biography is from art. Bruckner's symphonies are wonderful, grand, noble creatures, no connection with Anton's weird necro-quirks.


I know, I was kidding!


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> I know, I was kidding!


I added the thing about Saint-Saens while you were sending this. That makes it clear that I knew you were kidding. See, I was kidding about Camille, too.

Or was I?


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

OOOhhhh! Silly me... When I read Clavi on Bruckner (being turned on by dead people), until I read some guy's comments I was a little confused... I thought you meant that dead people had taken a disliking to Bruckner and so had become his enemies! I am thick sometimes.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

^^^Yes they turned on him on purgatory because he spent too much time not knowing that he was dead, convinced he had to finish his 9th symphony. One makes enemies in purgatory if they spend too much time there, and Bruckner spent his time in Purgatory, as he spent his time in life. And to add to that, not only was he finishing his 9th symphony, he was revising his other 8 exactly 4 times each. 

And a side note, I wonder if now banned user Herlocksholmes would have liked Bruckner better had he known of his obsessive compulsive disorder.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

some guy said:


> And that just goes to show how different biography is from art. Bruckner's symphonies are wonderful, grand, noble creatures, no connection with Anton's weird necro-quirks.
> 
> Anyway, I don't like Saint-Saens because he was a pedophile. (Oh, what a give-away!!)
> 
> (He did apparently actually say to someone, "I'm not gay; I just like young boys." (I just googled this, though, and the first thing I found has it like this, on accused of sodomy, Saint-Saens vehemently denied it, saying he was not a ******** but a pedophile.))


Didn't know Camille was a pedophile, I thought he was gay.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Couchie said:


> A common misconception. Hitler died in 1883, Wagner wasn't even born until 1889.


 Actually, Wagner was born in 1813 and died in 1883.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Miz said:


> Actually, Wagner was born in 1813 and died in 1883.


Are you implying that Wagner and Hitler were the same person?


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Are you implying that Wagner and Hitler were the same person?


maybe he read your post carefully:


Couchie said:


> A common misconception. *Hitler *died in *1883*, *Wagner *wasn't even born until *1889*.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

...Then why would he post that?


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## Terrapin (Apr 15, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Are you implying that Wagner and Hitler were the same person?


There's no evidence that both were ever present in the same place at the same time. Coincidence? I think not.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

I have some difficutly with Schoenberg's 12-tone technique. It sounds well composed/worked out althought sounds to me like if something was lacking naturaly compared with say Berg or even othre composers who occasionaly wrote 12t one.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Allan Pettersson - his reputation precedes him. He's known for composing the most angst ridden and depressing music. So I just don't want to go there. Full stop (or "period" for you Americans).

Rued Langgaard - rehash.

Havergal Brian - he did that big_ Gothic _symphony on steroids. It sounds to being like a bodybuilder's convention or something like that. Apart from that, he's unknown. I don't like music on steroids - usually - so I'm not that keen to delve into his wonders, to tell you the truth...Mahler's 8th is enough for me, even that's way too big, but apparently Brian's is BIGGER...


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## chrislowski (Aug 20, 2011)

Funnily enough, I love all three of those composers.

I think with Brian you're missing out. His 1st symphony has sort of made him infamous, but he was actually a very good composer in my opinion. Sure, he owes a lot to Mahler, but you can also hear the influence of Bruckner and Elgar. The closest comparison though would be Arnold Bax, so if you like Bax chances are you'll be pleasantly surprised by Brian.

I have about 14 of his Symphonies and enjoy them all immensely. Sure, Gothic is a huge and daring piece of work, one which I don't listen to very often (having to have at least 2 hours to sit and listen) but it's not without merit. It was recently performed at the BBC proms this year, but the BBC missed their chance and didn't actual film it for television  There will be a cd of the performance though.

I recommend this cd for anyone who wants to try Brian, but is not ready for 'Gothic'.


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

That Schubert...he couldn't even finish his best symphony. What a troll


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

And what's up with that guy Haydn? Boring harmonic blandness it all sounds the same! CPE Bach, just a bunch of repetitive boring ****, and his father, the overrated *******, sounds like a computer. And Medtner, just a bunch of busy arpeggios! Hmmph! Rachmaninoff, trivial saccharine garbage!


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Me no like Mahler as much as some of you fine folks.


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

clavichorder said:


> And what's up with that guy Haydn? Boring harmonic blandness it all sounds the same!


I know, Michael Haydn sucked!


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

^Oh you mean Joseph Haydn....

104 symphonies..... only 8 in a minor key? They didn't even have prozac in the 18th Century.... wtf!


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Composers I hate? I can't think of one, but Webern comes pretty close. Wagner just cause he just goes on and on and on and on. And on. Did I mention he goes on and on? I think I'll stop. Something Wagner didn't learn how to do.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Manok said:


> Composers I hate? I can't think of one, but Webern comes pretty close. Wagner just cause he just goes on and on and on and on. And on. Did I mention he goes on and on? I think I'll stop. Something Wagner didn't learn how to do.


You better hide. That weird green thing wearing the Wagner clothes will probably be hunting you down from now on.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Mozart, because his music is perfect, therefor uninteresting. Isn't that the problem people have with electronic music? It's too perfect and boring.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

DavidMahler said:


> I know, Michael Haydn sucked!


Just in case it wasn't clear, I was completely kidding. Please take note of that. People who've seen me post on this board know that I love these composers, all of them.

Michael Haydn's not bad either.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Manok said:


> Composers I hate? I can't think of one, but Webern comes pretty close. Wagner just cause he just goes on and on and on and on. And on. Did I mention he goes on and on? I think I'll stop. Something Wagner didn't learn how to do.


Unrelated question, can you send me your home address and weekly schedule?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Michael Haydn's not bad either.

I quite agree. I got a disc of his choral music this past summer and was quite impressed.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Out of the pieces I've familiarized myself with, the only composers who I can say I don't like any of their works so far are Vivaldi, Milhaud, and Hindemith. Granted I'm familiar with 3, 1, and 1 of their works, respectively. So that will (hopefully) change.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

chrislowski said:


> ...
> I recommend this cd for anyone who wants to try Brian, but is not ready for 'Gothic'.


Well I might get Havergal Brian's _Violin Concerto_ on Naxos, reviewed HERE. I like it how the reviewer doesn't mince words, saying the _Symphony #18 _on this disc "goes nowhere," & that the Gothic symphony is often exasperating to newcomers -



> ...The Symphony No. 18 is a harder piece to like, chiefly because Brian's tone throughout is combative, but the developmental argument seems to go nowhere in the work's scant 14 minutes...





> ...The 1993 recordings of the overture, The Jolly Miller (1962), the Violin Concerto in C major (1934-1935), and the Symphony No. 18 (1961) are a good introduction to Brian's eccentricities, and provide a better place to start than the Symphony No. 1, "Gothic," which often exasperates newcomers through its sheer massiveness, density, and length...


I think this would be better, I've always been feint hearted in a way, not a fan of very long works, this disc sounds pretty good, but it's another thing on my backburner...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Nix said:


> Out of the pieces I've familiarized myself with, the only composers who I can say I don't like any of their works so far are Vivaldi, Milhaud, and Hindemith. Granted I'm familiar with 3, 1, and 1 of their works, respectively. So that will (hopefully) change.


which piece by Milhaud and Hindemith?


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

violadude said:


> which piece by Milhaud and Hindemith?


_Duo Concertante_ for Clarinet and Piano, and _Symphonic Metamorphosis_


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The 18th century wigs don't do it for me.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Nix said:


> _Duo Concertante_ for Clarinet and Piano, and _Symphonic Metamorphosis_


Might I suggest the piano concertos for Milhaud? They are gravely underrated IMO.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

some guy said:


> And that just goes to show how different biography is from art. Bruckner's symphonies are wonderful, grand, noble creatures, no connection with Anton's weird necro-quirks.
> 
> Anyway, I don't like Saint-Saens because he was a pedophile. (Oh, what a give-away!!)
> 
> (He did apparently actually say to someone, "I'm not gay; I just like young boys." (I just googled this, though, and the first thing I found has it like this, on accused of sodomy, Saint-Saens vehemently denied it, saying he was not a ******** but a pedophile.))


I think he actually admitted to being a pederast. He loved those young Arab boys on his frequent trips to Egypt. The word 'gay' was not hijacked until around 60 years after Saint-Saëns' death.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I doubt if I would have liked many famous composers if I had known them personally.

Musically, I can't think of any composers I hate. There is a SONG I hate by Jimmmy Dorsey, Paul Madeira and Paul Mertz called "I'm Glad There Is You (In This World of Ordinary People)". I don't mind the lyrics, but I hate the music for some indefinable reason.


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

You know I find it hard to hate dead composers for what or who they were, simply being, they are dead now, and what they did, really doesn't matter anymore. I prefer to base my judgment of a persons work, based on their work, not of who they were.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Weston said:


> Mozart, because his music is perfect, therefor uninteresting. Isn't that the problem people have with electronic music? It's too perfect and boring.


 Really, Mozart is one of the greatest composers of all time and he and Beethoven are the most deserving to be Nr. 1.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Tchaicarvsky because he lacked d...d...death and only knew how to write good Mel Gibsondies


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

chrislowski said:


> Funnily enough, I love all three of those composers.
> I think with Brian you're missing out. His 1st symphony has sort of made him infamous, but he was actually a very good composer in my opinion. Sure, he owes a lot to Mahler, but you can also hear the influence of Bruckner and Elgar. The closest comparison though would be Arnold Bax, so if you like Bax chances are you'll be pleasantly surprised by Brian.


It's important to appreciate Brian had a long composing life. He was genuinely famous pre world war 1, praised by both Elgar and Strauss. His works from that time are entirely approachable and I would strongly recommend two: _In memoriam_, which is a long slow movement, Elgarian in feel but with all sorts of undertows such as Berlioz; and _Doctor Merryheart_, a witty tone poem in the manner of Strauss's _Till Eulenspiegel_. Everything from that time is worth exploring (and you can find a list of works here: http://www.havergalbrian.org/worksextantbytype.htm).

After WW1, Brian was left behind - he became musically isolated because unperformed, but he was far from being a recluse. He edited _Musical Opinion_ for many years and reviewed many concerts, including (particularly) contemporary music, in excellent writing which stands the test of time, as shown in the first two volumes of Toccata Press's _Havergal Brian on music. _

The symphonies are much later: the second dates from 1930-31, when the composer was in his fifties. Symphonies 2-12 are all approachable, and 6-12 are, 7 apart, pretty short and compact.

I don't think there is anything in any of his symphonies which can be described as going nowhere. It is true that 18 is not the strongest symphony, but its weakness lies in him relying on previously used techniques, not in those techniques being aimless. The thing about Brian, particularly from symphony 13 onwards, but there in _The Gothic_ and even earlier music, is that he was short on transitions and long on parentheses. In other words, he makes no concessions to the listener's difficulty in following the argument. His symphony 22 - two full movements running all of nine minutes - is best thought of as being like Berg's_ Three orchestral pieces_: highly compressed versions of what you're familiar with.

In addition to the fine EMI set of 7-9, do hear the Hyperion recording of 3, Lyrita recordings of 6 and 16, and Martyn Brabbins's excellent recent recording of 10 on Dutton.

Two good CDs from Toccata include some of Brian's non-symphonic orchestral music, the second containing music from his operas.



> I have about 14 of his Symphonies and enjoy them all immensely. Sure, Gothic is a huge and daring piece of work, one which I don't listen to very often (having to have at least 2 hours to sit and listen) but it's not without merit. It was recently performed at the BBC proms this year, but the BBC missed their chance and didn't actual film it for television  There will be a cd of the performance though.


The BBC didn't miss their chance: they made a conscious decision not to broadcast it. All the cameras were in place for concerts which were transmitted either side of _The Gothic._ The fact is the controllers of BBC television didn't see fit to televise the concert. They probably made the right decision given their audience but, of course, the wrong one given the scale of the both the music and the event - which cost the BBC over a third of a million pounds - so you would have expected them to leverage that investment as much as possible. They did, I hear, extract a goodly sum from Hyperion for the rights to issue the recording on CD (released December 11).


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Weston said:


> Isn't that the problem people have with electronic music? It's too perfect and boring.


Actually, my problem with electronic music is that it's too imperfect and boring.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Klavierspieler said:


> Actually, my problem with electronic music is that it's too imperfect and boring.


I don't think it is boring 

And there's no such thing as perfect in music.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

violadude said:


> And there's no such thing as perfect in music.


I never said there was.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Klavierspieler said:


> I never said there was.


Which also means there is no such thing as imperfect music, which you did say.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

There are some people that have one of the greatest composers of all time as their answer.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

And also, don't pick on Weston if he says that he likes Mozart the least.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Miz said:


> And also, don't pick on Weston if he says that he likes Mozart the least.


I'm confused. No one was picking on Weston.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Trout said:


> I'm confused. No one was picking on Weston.


 This statement of mine that you responded to is for everyone in this forum that like Mozart the most.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm not a fan of Mozart either. It also sounds bland to me. Brahms also sounds kinda bland. But I prefer to listen to those I really like and not focus on what I don't care for.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I'm not a fan of Mozart either. It also sounds bland to me. Brahms also sounds kinda bland. But I prefer to listen to those I really like and not focus on what I don't care for.


 Let me guess, you like Brahms the least.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

In this thread, some people have Beethoven as their answer, Mozart as their answer, and Bach as their answers.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

violadude said:


> Which also means there is no such thing as imperfect music, which you did say.


I was joking!


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Miz said:


> In this thread, some people have Beethoven as their answer, Mozart as their answer, and Bach as their answers.


Really? No one has Beethoven or Bach (J.S.) for their answer.


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Trout said:


> Really? No one has Beethoven or Bach (J.S.) for their answer.


 But the people that don't like Baroque music and think Beethoven's music is fantastic and boring, those are their answers.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Miz said:


> But the people that don't like Baroque music and think Beethoven's music is fantastic and boring, those are their answers.


Yes, but you specifically stated "in this thread".


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I like some of Schoenberg's music, the 5 Pieces for Orchestra have some appeal, but I think he was excelled by Berg who was just flat out romantic in his use of 12-tone. I agree with your remark 'well-composed/worked out'. He was an odd man who lived down the street from another odd man...Igor Stravinsky, in Hollywood, CA. (of all places).



Rapide said:


> I have some difficutly with Schoenberg's 12-tone technique. It sounds well composed/worked out althought sounds to me like if something was lacking naturaly compared with say Berg or even othre composers who occasionaly wrote 12t one.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Damn it! Can there be no mention of Wagner without poor, defenceless Brahms being brought into it?!


Can there not be a mention of Wagner without Hitler being dragged into it? From what I've seen from you I'll bet you read the Daily Mail.


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## HexameronVI (May 9, 2011)

I don't like Alkan. That guy was on meth half the time...


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

HexameronVI said:


> I don't like Alkan. That guy was on meth half the time...


Brace yourself for the trolling...


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

HexameronVI said:


> I don't like Alkan. That guy was on meth half the time...


I don't like Chopin. That guy was on anti-depressants half the time...


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## Miz (Aug 5, 2011)

Dodecaplex said:


> I don't like Chopin. That guy was on anti-depressants half the time...


Actually, Chopin was one of the greatest composers of all time not to bash on you, but I'm just saying it calmly.


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## mleghorn (May 18, 2011)

Phillip Glass. What a charlatan.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

starthrower said:


> The 18th century wigs don't do it for me.


No comment


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

HexameronVI said:


> I don't like Alkan. That guy was on meth half the time...


He was, but in the best of ways.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

violadude said:


> Which also means there is no such thing as imperfect music, which you did say.


Logical fallacy. Of course there is no perfect music, but there is plenty of imperfect music. Some of it is more imperfect than others.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

ELGAR Just look at him. Yuck.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> ELGAR Just look at him. Yuck.


Ha! You crack me up!:lol: But I don't quite understand why you hate Elgar so much, you've even listened to his symphonies haven't you? You have opinions I do not understand, but you do crack me up.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Ha! You crack me up!:lol: But I don't quite understand why you hate Elgar so much, you've even listened to his symphonies haven't you? You have opinions I do not understand, but you do crack me up.


I don't understand why I hate his music either. There's nothing wrong with anything he's written (that I have heard) at all, but I just can't stand listening to his music.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I don't understand why I hate his music either. There's nothing wrong with anything he's written (that I have heard) at all, but I just can't stand listening to his music.


Maybe the quintessential Edwardian/silent movie baddie moustache has something to do with it?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

To whoever that guy is; shut up about Mozart and Beethoven.

To answer the initial question (sort of); Renaissance polyphony gives me a migraine. I don't hate Josquin or anything, I just do my best to avoid him and composers of his ilk.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Damn it! Can there be no mention of Wagner without poor, defenceless Brahms being brought into it?!


Not among scoundrels.



j/k of course!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Damn it! Can there be no mention of Wagner without poor, defenceless Brahms being brought into it?!


Wagner is better than Brahms. Wagner was the height of the romantic era and the pinnacle of German music. That is why Wagner is so great. But *Ligeti* is better than all of them!


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