# Beethoven's Piano Concertos



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Can you guys offer your thoughts/experiences with these pieces? I think they are so fantastic, almost like Mozart on steroids, which I've said of Haydn before as well, but might I say Beethoven may achieve more character than Haydn did with at least his symphonies (sans his piano sonatas which are exquisite beyond words).

Did Beethoven compose these in his early career, because I don't hear the romantic touches in these as much as Classical, Mozartian ones.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

As far as I know they were composed for Beethoven to perform himself, so they all come from relatively early in his career when he could still hear well enough to function as pianist. The last two begin to lean decidedly towards romanticism, but they are all very uniquely Beethoven.

My personal favourite is the dreamy and lyrical no 4. The second movement must be one of the most stunningly original ideas any composer ever had, and there are bits in there that are quite modern-sounding too.

But then, originality was his game. For example, who in his right mind does not only open a violin concerto with soft taps on the timpani, but then uses that little motif as the basis of an entire movement? The mind boggles.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

If you're new to these concertos, it's important to know that the #2 is actually #1. The publishing of #2 was delayed. It's not hard to hear the difference between them. The #2 is more classical era, even more 'Mozartean'. It's main composition occurred while Mozart was still alive -5 years or so before the #1- though it was revised somewhat before it reached its final form about 1795 and then was published in 1801.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. No. 2 was composed two years before No. 1 when Beethoven was 25; No. 3, when he was 30; No. 4, when he was 35 and No. 5, when he was 39. No. 4 was composed around the same time as the Violin Concerto.

There are "Romanticisms" in Concertos 4 & 5. Check out both slow movements.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> If you're new to these concertos, it's important to know that the #2 is actually #1. The publishing of #2 was delayed. It's not hard to hear the difference between them. The #2 is more classical era, even more 'Mozartean'. It's main composition occurred while Mozart was still alive though it was revised somewhat before it was published in 1795.


Similar to The Beatles Abbey Road and Let it Be ordeal.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Similar to The Beatles Abbey Road and Let it Be ordeal.


Yes. Btw, I edited my post to correct the error of the date #2 was published: 1801.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> As far as I know they were composed for Beethoven to perform himself, so they all come from relatively early in his career when he could still hear well enough to function as pianist.


The exception is #5, which was premiered by Archduke Rudolf (!) Soloists in subsequent performances were Friedrich Schneider and Carl Czerny. By that time, Beethoven was retired from public performances.


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

KenOC said:


> The exception is #5, *which was premiered by Archduke Rudolf *(!) Soloists in subsequent performances were Friedrich Schneider and Carl Czerny. By that time, Beethoven was retired from public performances.


I know that the Emperor Concerto was dedicated to Archduke Rudolf, but I've never come across any references to him actually _performing _it. Are you sure that he premiered the work? Do you have a source for that? I wouldn't have thought that Rudolf's piano skills could be up to the task, but perhaps I've underestimated good ol' Rudolf! :lol:


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bettina said:


> I know that the Emperor Concerto was dedicated to Archduke Rudolf, but I've never come across any references to him actually _performing _it. Are you sure that he premiered the work? Do you have a source for that? I wouldn't have thought that Rudolf's piano skills could be up to the task, but perhaps I've underestimated good ol' Rudolf! :lol:


That's from Wiki, which sometimes gets these things wrong. Thus my exclamation point. "The first performance took place on 13 January 1811 at the Palace of Prince Joseph Lobkowitz in Vienna, with Archduke Rudolf as the soloist..." That was not a public performance, however -- and anyway, who knows how well he played?


----------



## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Bettina said:


> I know that the Emperor Concerto was dedicated to Archduke Rudolf, but I've never come across any references to him actually _performing _it. Are you sure that he premiered the work? Do you have a source for that? I wouldn't have thought that Rudolf's piano skills could be up to the task, but perhaps I've underestimated good ol' Rudolf! :lol:


Wikipedia says that that Archduke Rudolf did perform it at the palace of Prince Joseph Lobkowitz then there was a public performance with Friedrich Schneider.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I listened to the Third Concerto on the radio a few days back. I was again amazed by this work. It may be my favorite of the five piano concertos. It's sturdy "Beethoven". 

The first two concertos are certainly wonderful, and they speak of beginnings. One hears the influence of Haydn and Mozart, still. The last two are unique creatures of Beethoven's most experimental age. The Fourth is so different from anything else, sort of like the Eighth Symphony, and the giant Fifth is beautiful and noble sort of in the manner of the Ninth Symphony. But that Third. That strikes the ears as does the monumental Third Symphony -- a fully formed original Beethovenian architectural structure that screams the composer's mark.

I've long loved the Egmont Overture as the "perfect" example of Beethoven's music. The Egmont Overture would be a wonderful introductory piece in a concert featuring the Third Concerto, followed by the Third Symphony, or the Fifth Symphony. This is Beethoven at his most Beethovenian finest. Not the early genius finding his way or the later genius writing deeply introspective, philosophical soundings. But quintessential Beethoven.

And what is better than quintessential Beethoven?


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

No 5 and no 3 are without one minute doubt the most satisfying concertos ever made.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The Third was well-regarded from the beginning. From a contemporary review:

"This concerto is among the most important works published by this genial master in recent years. In certain aspects it may even excel above all others. In none of his latest works does the reviewer find so many beautiful and noble ideas, such a thorough execution that does not tend to the bombastic or contrived, such a firm character without excesses, or such unity. Wherever it can be performed well, it will have the greatest and most beautiful effect. Even in Leipzig, where one is used to hearing the greater Mozart concertos performed well and where one views them with justifiable preference, this will be and has already been the case."


----------



## Hurrian (Jan 16, 2017)

The 5th is a piece I heard often when I was young - - my mother loved that concerto and played it frequently. While I greatly enjoy the 3rd & 4th, I still the 5th the most compelling of them all.


----------

