# SS 19.07.14 - Schumann #3 "Rhenish"



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Robert Schumann (1810 - 1856)*

Symphony No. 3 in E-flat Major, Op. 91 "Rhenish"

1. Lebhaft
2. Scherzo
3. Nicht schnell
4. Feierlich
5. Lebhaft

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I've listened to this Symphony quite a bit this week (6 different recordings to be exact) so for this weekend I'm going to pick one I bought a while back and haven't had a chance to listen to yet.

View attachment 46864


Riccardo Chailly/Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra [Mahler Revisions]


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## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

Making this one a twofer. Herbert von Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic alongside Arturo Toscanini with the NBC Symphony Orchestra.


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

I will join with:


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Schumann has never gripped me: here's my chance for some critical listening. I'll try my set:

Inbal/New Philharmonia










I'm prepping myself with this version presently:





Zinmann/Tonhalle Zürich

I really want to find a 'Mahler arrangement' version, but this is the only one:





Giulini/Philharmonia

I'll try it later


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Tennstedt conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra for me.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Now, I am prepped. After listening to the 2 YT videos above, I like the Mahler arrangement best... and I really will take the time to compare with my CD copy by Eliahu Inbal. I also read the extensive analysis and history of Schumann's last (but numbered third) symphony. It is modelled strongly after Beethoven's Third and Sixth Symphonies. I now have a completely different understanding and appreciation of this very important symphony, one I had long dismissed.


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## csacks (Dec 5, 2013)

Back to my music (not like last week Webern´s symphony)
I will go with Leonard Bernstein and the VPO. All of them are spectacular. My favorite, the 4th!!!


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I'll go with one of my favourite LPs










Carlo Maria Giulini and the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

csacks said:


> Back to my music (not like last week Webern´s symphony)
> I will go with Leonard Bernstein and the VPO. All of them are spectacular. My favorite, the 4th!!!
> View attachment 46906


I've got that one too.

I also like Solti's Rhenish.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Jeff W said:


> View attachment 46872
> View attachment 46873
> 
> 
> Making this one a twofer. Herbert von Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic alongside Arturo Toscanini with the NBC Symphony Orchestra.


Karajan's _sans pareil_ in streamlined elegance with the _Rhenish_. . . and those_ horns_!--_ But-ter_. _;D_


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I shall give this version a try


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

OOops, double post when I tried to correct the image link.


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

CORRECTION: My notions of Mahler were uninformed, and I removed them.

_________________________
I've chosen Järvi after listening to YT's Toscanni and Szell.

*Symphony No.3 in E flat major, Op.97* "Rhenish"
Robert Schumann​








*Here's the score*.
I. Lebhaft (00:00)
II. Scherzo: Sehr mäßig (09:42) pdf 22
III. Nicht schnell (16:15) pdf 31
IV. Feierlich (21:24) pdf 37
V. Lebhaft (28:10) pdf 46​
NHK Symphony Orchestra conducted by Paavo Järvi
June 11, 2005, NHK Hall, Tokyo


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

Barenboim/Staatskapelle


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## CyrilWashbrook (Feb 6, 2013)

I've only listened to this once or twice but I do remember that I enjoyed it, so I'm looking forward to revisiting it. Kubelik's recording with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Harnoncourt & Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

With the Proms starting yesterday, I kinda forgot about this.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

*Schumann

Symphony No. 3 in E flat major, Op. 97 'Rhenish'*
Berlin PO, Rafael Kubelik [DG, 2000]










The only version I've ever owned, I think, though my dad had an LP recording many moons ago which I would have heard as a child. Kubelik and the Berlin PO do a good job here, I think; certainly the orchestral textures are quite light and the performance seems to locate the music just after Beethoven's time (I think this was written in 1850).

It isn't so long since I heard this: I'm a self confessed Schumann fan and I like to revisit my Schumann collection regularly. Very enjoyable.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

This version is the only one I own for now:









The "Rheinische" is my favorite out of the four Schumann symphonies.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

GioCar said:


> I'll go with one of my favourite LPs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is one beautiful cover. I think I even recognize that ruin.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I really like this symphony. What I like that's a bit unusual is that it just starts and rollicks along immediately, no slow introduction. 
My version that I listened to today is:
View attachment 46991


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I agree with csacks.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I listened to a third version (Paavo Järvi/NHK Symphony Orchestra) on YT, before finally listening to my CD (Eliahu Inbal/New Philharmonia) just now. I don't understand why I have had such longstanding reservations vis-à-vis Schumann's Symphonies, but I have finally broken through  It is far too early to say which of the four I prefer, but I am not disappointed with the album I own.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I hadn't planed to partake in this weekend's SSF, mostly because I've had a bad spell with my ever present tinnitus the last few weeks and it makes concentrated listening very tiring.
This and the fact that I really never had any epiphanies with Robert Schumann's orchestral works, I find them rather run of the mill (bland), almost "Kapellmeistermusik", all the finely honed skills are there but Robert seemed (in hindsight) unable to breathe the kind of fresh air in to the music that he so exquisitely do in the smaller forms (Songs, piano, chamber music).
I also often feel that his orchestral music is not helped by the lack of tension (in the form of slow tempi) that many conductors infuse, the first recording I listened to is a prime example of this:








Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields u.Sir Neville Marriner

Late in Marrier's career, an example of my dislikes, everything is seemingly there with the slow and samesame tempi making me feel that he is not going anywhere, the music becomes so insipid that it fails to excite anyone but an Chinese audience...

I also listened to:







Orchestre des Champs-Elysees u. Philippe Herreweghe

Herreweghe has at least bit of varied tempi, the finale is almost strutting. I won't go as far as saying that he saves the Rheinische, but he's added tensions makes the music bearable!

I believe that the grand problem with interpreting Schumann's orchestral music lies in many (most) conductors are only thinking the lineage; Schumann > Brahms > Bruckner, and the interpretation becomes dull and lifeless. But for me and those who really understand Schumann (not saying I do!) think the other way; Beethoven (or even Mozart) > Schubert > Schumann and this retain the lightness and dance like qualities of the music, for me, Herreweghe is closer to this mindset.

/ptr


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

My expectations blended this weekend while listening to Schumann’s Sym#3. I say that because I took time too for listening to some of his lieder, which helped an understanding for his symphonies being part of his musical achievement, as a whole. 

I expected and heard long lyrical lines that are also heard in Schumann’s vocals accompanied with piano along with an imaginative, presumptive hearing of a chorus or smaller vocal ensemble in various parts of this symphony. 

Syncopations and finessed meter shifts might’ve been easy for Brahms to assume and refine in some of his solo piano. 

Oh, btw, in the Järvi YT recording, you would’ve thought the horns could consistently hit their higher pitches— instead, double buzzing or unintentional split tones were heard —more than once. I guess that day their embouchures just weren’t up it. I grinned. 

After hearing YT’s Toscanni and Szell and Järvi, I’ve nudged myself for additions to a wish list that includes the Bernstein performances of Schumann’s symphonies as well as Chailly’s Mahler Edition. 

There was an indulgence of listening enjoyment this weekend. Thanks!

R.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

This was *Schumann's* final symphony, correct? It was just labeled his "Third" Symphony, due to publishers' whim/schedule.

I say this because it feels like Schumann's finale. It is spectacular, or that may be my *Brahms* adoration shining through--that is, the F-A-E theme in the first movement. Still, I find Schumann's 2nd and 3rd spectacular.

Anyone _not_ enjoy his 3rd? I doubt.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Avey said:


> This was *Schumann's* final symphony, correct? It was just labeled his "Third" Symphony, due to publishers' whim/schedule.


It looks like Schumann's last symphony was really #4, which was heavily revised for its publication in 1851. It was originally written earlier, in 1841.

Clara insisted that the later version, which was heavier and thicker in orchestration, should be the only one played. Brahms wanted to include the earlier version in his edition of Schumann's complete works late in the century, and Clara objected strenuously. But Brahms went ahead with it.

Gardiner's set of Schumann symphonies includes both versions. I prefer the earlier one, which is otherwise hard to find.


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