# Astell & Kern



## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Anyone have any experience with using the Astell & Kern CD Ripper and the AK70/AK70mk2 to digitize a cd collection? Thinking about getting one, but wanted to hear others experiences if any.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I don't know the product but having read a description, I have a couple of questions.

Is this proprietary to A&K? After ripping the CD do you have access to the files so you can transfer them to a computer? You may want to be able to stream them to other audio equipment. 

Is there any way to edit the metadata? Most people seem to have to do a lot of this for classical recordings.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

No direct experience but jegreenwood asks a pertinent question. There are many models in the AK lineup and from some of the reviews I have read I gather that the lesser priced models may use a file ripping protocol that is difficult to transfer files from. I would seek out all reviews pertinent to the model that you are interested in.
I wasted money on the Onkyo player that has an Android interface that renders it unusable. Any one who wants it—it’s a very expensive paperweight at present—make me an offer. I then bought the Sony Walkman which has the easiest file transfer system. The Sony didn’t sound quite as good as the Onkyo-based on the two tracks that I was able to transfer to the Onkyo—but it is close and may benefit from a portable headphone amp—I just haven’t tried yet. Anyway, after the Onkyo disaster I was considering AK, but got scared off when I read about some models using an Android interface and file transfer issues


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> I don't know the product but having read a description, I have a couple of questions.
> 
> Is this proprietary to A&K? After ripping the CD do you have access to the files so you can transfer them to a computer? You may want to be able to stream them to other audio equipment.
> 
> ...


*Not sure of this either. I do know it syncs with Gracenote, which is a pretty large database*


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Triplets said:


> No direct experience but jegreenwood asks a pertinent question. There are many models in the AK lineup and from some of the reviews I have read I gather that the lesser priced models may use a file ripping protocol that is difficult to transfer files from. I would seek out all reviews pertinent to the model that you are interested in.
> I wasted money on the Onkyo player that has an Android interface that renders it unusable. Any one who wants it-it's a very expensive paperweight at present-make me an offer. I then bought the Sony Walkman which has the easiest file transfer system. The Sony didn't sound quite as good as the Onkyo-based on the two tracks that I was able to transfer to the Onkyo-but it is close and may benefit from a portable headphone amp-I just haven't tried yet. Anyway, after the Onkyo disaster I was considering AK, but got scared off when I read about some models using an Android interface and file transfer issues


I'm also open to suggestions for a good player that is not AK... I was hoping to leave the computer out of it, but if it gives me more control over my files than I might have to go another route. Do you find the Sony player sound to be better than most? I'm coming from iPhone quality sound. Any good rec's for cd ripping hardware and software? Thanks again for the reply.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Gentlementalman said:


> I'm also open to suggestions for a good player that is not AK... I was hoping to leave the computer out of it, but if it gives me more control over my files than I might have to go another route. Do you find the Sony player sound to be better than most? I'm coming from iPhone quality sound. Any good rec's for cd ripping hardware and software? Thanks again for the reply.


I can only compare the Sony vs the Onkyo. I listen with Oppo PM3 phones and it definitely sounds better than MP3 files from my iPhone . When I listen to High Resolution downloads it sounds very impressive and CDs are faithfully reproduced.
For CD ripping I use an old MacBook that had a CD import drive. I have also used an external optical drive on my wife's newer Mac Air. You'll need a program to convert Apple Files into FLAC, but if you are using a Windows based ripping system then that isn't required. I have been using Decibel but the Liscensed is up and I am not sure that it is being supported going forward so I am open to suggestions.
It is really hard to beat Sony for ease of file transfer


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Triplets said:


> I can only compare the Sony vs the Onkyo. I listen with Oppo PM3 phones and it definitely sounds better than MP3 files from my iPhone . When I listen to High Resolution downloads it sounds very impressive and CDs are faithfully reproduced.
> For CD ripping I use an old MacBook that had a CD import drive. I have also used an external optical drive on my wife's newer Mac Air. You'll need a program to convert Apple Files into FLAC, but if you are using a Windows based ripping system then that isn't required. I have been using Decibel but the Liscensed is up and I am not sure that it is being supported going forward so I am open to suggestions.
> It is really hard to beat Sony for ease of file transfer


Thanks for the reply! I decided to get a generic external cd drive ($35)for ripping my cds. That way I can have more control over the files. If I decide to go with the AK70/70MK2 I can always drag the files from the computer to the device. The ak ripper @ $399 would only rip to the ark device. Not worth it to me. That's $360 more dollars to spend on music, or a quality mobile player.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Gentlementalman said:


> *Not sure of this either. I do know it syncs with Gracenote, which is a pretty large database*


Good decision on the external drive. The next question is the choice of software to do the ripping. It doesn't sound like you're planning to play your music on an iDevice, so I see no reason for you to use iTunes. I use JRiver which is an all purpose media center. It rips; it tags; it converts between formats (including DSD); it acts as a media player and as a server. I could go on. But it costs $50 and has a learning curve. You may not need all of that functionality at present, so there may be better options such as Exact Audio Copy, which is free and which is arguably the gold standard for ripping.

As for Gracenote, JRiver uses a different database (as does Exact Audio Copy these days, it appears), so again I'm no expert. I know that Gracenote has a large database and a good, but not perfect, reputation for consistency in the presentation of the metadata for search/scrolling purposes. But that means you have to accept its presentation of metadata and how it meshes with the player you are using. This article offers examples of some of the issues to consider. In my case, to select classical music, I like to drill down through Genre/Composer/Performing Artist/Work. I can do that naturally in JRiver but not with iTunes on my iDevices (as far as I can see). When I started ripping more than a decade ago, I was using iTunes for all computer based music purposes, and I couldn't drill down that way in iTunes on my computer either. I therefore devised a workaround. But that was inconsistent with Gracenote's metadata structure, so I got used to editing every entry.

One other thing about Gracenote - from what I can see, software companies now have to pay to have their programs access it. (It was bought by Nielsen, after all.) So I would guess that you won't find many free ripping programs that use it any longer.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

jegreenwood said:


> Good decision on the external drive. The next question is the choice of software to do the ripping. It doesn't sound like you're planning to play your music on an iDevice, so I see no reason for you to use iTunes. I use JRiver which is an all purpose media center. It rips; it tags; it converts between formats (including DSD); it acts as a media player and as a server. I could go on. But it costs $50 and has a learning curve. You may not need all of that functionality at present, so there may be better options such as Exact Audio Copy, which is free and which is arguably the gold standard for ripping.
> 
> As for Gracenote, JRiver uses a different database (as does Exact Audio Copy these days, it appears), so again I'm no expert. I know that Gracenote has a large database and a good, but not perfect, reputation for consistency in the presentation of the metadata for search/scrolling purposes. But that means you have to accept its presentation of metadata and how it meshes with the player you are using. This article offers examples of some of the issues to consider. In my case, to select classical music, I like to drill down through Genre/Composer/Performing Artist/Work. I can do that naturally in JRiver but not with iTunes on my iDevices (as far as I can see). When I started ripping more than a decade ago, I was using iTunes for all computer based music purposes, and I couldn't drill down that way in iTunes on my computer either. I therefore devised a workaround. But that was inconsistent with Gracenote's metadata structure, so I got used to editing every entry.
> 
> One other thing about Gracenote - from what I can see, software companies now have to pay to have their programs access it. (It was bought by Nielsen, after all.) So I would guess that you won't find many free ripping programs that use it any longer.


I tried a free JRiver trial. It is a popular program but yes, it has a steep learning curve. I am an IT fraidy cat and decided to use decibel after the initial iTunes rip. So it might depend upon your comfort level with IT issues. The free trials on offer are a good way to experiment


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Triplets said:


> I tried a free JRiver trial. It is a popular program but yes, it has a steep learning curve. I am an IT fraidy cat and decided to use decibel after the initial iTunes rip. So it might depend upon your comfort level with IT issues. The free trials on offer are a good way to experiment


The thing that drove me crazy about using iTunes to rip was that it made errors even with safe copy on. The number of errors would have been manageable but iTunes didn't report the errors.. I might be listening to a recording on my iPhone half a year later and find half a track missing. I also discovered errors made by iTunes in transferring tracks from my computer to my iDevice, but that would be less relevant for you unless you switch to an iPhone as your music source.


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Thanks for the excellent in depth reply. I am pretty tech savvy so I’m not to worried about the learning curve. I’ll atch some YouTube videos about it and see. $50 sounds reasonable if it works well. I’m thinking about using a fiio x7ii to listen on, so I’ll have to see how that pairs with the software. I also considered just using an iPod Touch with ALAC files. Not sure yet, but thanks for giving me some stuff to think about.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Gentlementalman said:


> Thanks for the excellent in depth reply. I am pretty tech savvy so I'm not to worried about the learning curve. I'll atch some YouTube videos about it and see. $50 sounds reasonable if it works well. I'm thinking about using a fiio x7ii to listen on, so I'll have to see how that pairs with the software. I also considered just using an iPod Touch with ALAC files. Not sure yet, but thanks for giving me some stuff to think about.


The iPod Touch, like the iPhone and iPad, uses data encryption, so the only software you can use to transfer music directly from your computer to your iDevice is iTunes. These days that's the one thing I still use iTunes for. You may be able to use something like Dropbox or Apple's Cloud Storage. JRiver won't do it though.


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Assuming I’m only listening to FLAC or ALAC files ripped from CD’s, does it make sense to have a DAP instead of just an IPod Touch? I know it won’t play FLAC, but ALAC is the same quality. I’m just trying to reproduce the best possible quality from CD’s on a portable device. I probably won’t be downloading any hi res files


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I would say that unless you want some of the many features that an iDevice offers (e.g. e-mail, web browser, iMessaging 7.9 zillion apps) I would recommend a DAP. Although, I must admit I've never bought one. I do want the other features. (On the other hand, I do have a portable DAC/headphone amp to use with my iDevices.)

By the way, there are ways to get an iDevice to play FLACs, even hi-rez FLACs - just not through the Music app. I have an Onkyo app that will play them.


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> I would say that unless you want some of the many features that an iDevice offers (e.g. e-mail, web browser, iMessaging 7.9 zillion apps) I would recommend a DAP. Although, I must admit I've never bought one. I do want the other features. (On the other hand, I do have a portable DAC/headphone amp to use with my iDevices.)
> 
> By the way, there are ways to get an iDevice to play FLACs, even hi-rez FLACs - just not through the Music app. I have an Onkyo app that will play them.


Ehh...I have an iPhone. I'd rather have something just for music. I'll probably go with a fiio or Astell &Kern. I have to do some more research to pick one out. I doubt I need top of the line, but I want to "future proof" myself (as much as one can with tech) for awhile.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

jegreenwood said:


> The thing that drove me crazy about using iTunes to rip was that it made errors even with safe copy on. The number of errors would have been manageable but iTunes didn't report the errors.. I might be listening to a recording on my iPhone half a year later and find half a track missing. I also discovered errors made by iTunes in transferring tracks from my computer to my iDevice, but that would be less relevant for you unless you switch to an iPhone as your music source.


You are right about that I tend to do batch rips and then discover weeks later the iTunes screw ups, such as mixing up movement orders


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

for what its worth, I have had an Agptek MP3 player for nine months or so and am very happy with it. It takes micro SD cards (so it is easy to put in loads of CDs on each card), it is easy to transfer CDs onto it, it is easy to store CDs - either single CDs or sets (eg for operas), it has good battery life (and you can carry on listening as you charge it up), it carries on playing from where you stop it, easy to navigate to a different CD and it is easy to use as a player with headphones. £20 - a bargain!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Player-M07-...rds=mp3+agptek


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> for what its worth, I have had an Agptek MP3 player for nine months or so and am very happy with it. It takes micro SD cards (so it is easy to put in loads of CDs on each card), it is easy to transfer CDs onto it, it is easy to store CDs - either single CDs or sets (eg for operas), it has good battery life (and you can carry on listening as you charge it up), it carries on playing from where you stop it, easy to navigate to a different CD and it is easy to use as a player with headphones. £20 - a bargain!
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Player-M07-...rds=mp3+agptek


How does the CD transfer process work?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Gentlementalman said:


> Ehh...I have an iPhone. I'd rather have something just for music. I'll probably go with a fiio or Astell &Kern. I have to do some more research to pick one out. I doubt I need top of the line, but I want to "future proof" myself (as much as one can with tech) for awhile.


If you're thinking about JRiver, you may want to spend some time in this forum.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=8.0

You can read through threads to see what issues have arisen between JRiver and different DAPs. I should note that the forum is where I do most of my learning about JRiver. They maintain a Wiki for Help, but I rarely find the answers I need there, in part because I find it poorly organized and hard to follow.


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

Thanks. I’ll give it a look. Just ordered a Fiio X7ii! Claims to have excellent and neutral sound quality, which is good for classical. it is expandable to 512GB. More than enough space. And you can switch out AMP modules if you have different types of headphones that need more or less power. Looks like a system to grow with.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Gentlementalman said:


> Thanks. I'll give it a look. Just ordered a Fiio X7ii! Claims to have excellent and neutral sound quality, which is good for classical. it is expandable to 512GB. More than enough space. And you can switch out AMP modules if you have different types of headphones that need more or less power. Looks like a system to grow with.


Let us know what you think.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Triplets said:


> How does the CD transfer process work?


put CD in laptop, click 'rip CD', then drag and drop to MP3 player folder. Music is then stored in the album with tracks separate, album details and album art etc and ready to listen. Dead easy 

There might be more sophisticated procedures possible if you want them but that is all I need (sometimes I have to rename tracks or disc details as they show up as the wrong artists or the tracks are listed in Japanese etc)


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> put CD in laptop, click 'rip CD', then drag and drop to MP3 player folder. Music is then stored in the album with tracks separate, album details and album art etc and ready to listen. Dead easy
> 
> There might be more sophisticated procedures possible if you want them but that is all I need (sometimes I have to rename tracks or disc details as they show up as the wrong artists or the tracks are listed in Japanese etc)


 That's they way it should be. Of course many PCs now lack CD drives. Ease of file transfer sometimes gets overlooked in this process.


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## Gentlementalman (Dec 20, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> Let us know what you think.


So I've been listening to my CD's ripped to FLAC on the Fiio X7ii for a few days now, and all I can say is wow. The sound is crystal clear listening with my Sennheiser PXC550's. Sometimes I can here musicians turn pages in live performances haha. I don't use the built in player on the device however, as it doesn't let you organize by composer, and it's all a bit wonky. I use the Onkyo app, which allows organization by composer, and uses track metadata appropriately. The UI of the Onkyo app is also much better imo.

Using j-river to rip and tag my CD's is great, however, transferring to the fiio was not the best. So I started using dbpoweramp and just creating a folder per composer on my own. This works well for me. I won't be using my Mac for playing the music, so the extra tagging is not too important. Plus I believe I can always transfer the songs in afterword and tag them.


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## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

I use EAC to rip CDs (to flac). I may use Foobar to further tweak the files.

About AK DAPs (digital audio players)...
That S. Korean brand is definitely at the very top of the elite/high-end portable DAPs. The top models going for several $K!!

If you can afford AK models *and* high-end head-/earphone models (incl. IEMs i.e., in-ear monitors), then why not go for AK?!!
If you have a certain budget, then I would highly recommend you invest in good head-/earphones.

I use mid-priced DAPs from Chinese companies like Colorfly and Teclast. Fiio is also a good one ... lotsa other incl. Sony, Onkyo, etc.

I definitely prefer even a budget DAP/IEM (in-ear monitor) combo over iPhone with their default buds.


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