# Is being a Wagnerite a choice?



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Perhaps it is genetically determined. Discuss.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Why am I always the first person on your threads?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

It would seem to me that Wagnerite lacks the higher consciousness to decide that for itself, so no. See the link below. Har har har.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagnerite


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Dodecaplex said:


> Why am I always the first person on your threads?


Because, in the types of forum posters, you are talkclassical's resident "first." I've been there too.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Being a Wagnerite is neither choice nor determined, but a _privilege_. The Earth was birthed and universe itself existed from the beginning of time for the sole purpose of setting the events in motion that would ultimately produce Wilhelm Richard Wagner in 1813. In 1883, the Earth took Wagner back, but his legacy shapes the World to act out his final, everlasting, opera. They who have recognized and accepted this fundamental truth call themselves the Wagnerites.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> Perhaps it is genetically determined. Discuss.


Yeah, I found the _Wagner gene _last night. It was at the back of my sofa, along with some old chewing gum and a $1 coin.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I am an avowed Wagnerian and perhaps have no choice in this matter... but I'm also Bach-fanatic, a Handel-idolater, a Beethoven-worshiper, a Mozartian... and even a Brahmsian (among my multiple musical identities).


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Yeah, I found the _Wagner gene _last night. It was at the back of my sofa, along with some old chewing gum and a $1 coin.


Ah, I was wondering when Sid James would make an appearance, as foretold...


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I am an avowed Wagnerian and perhaps have no choice in this matter... but I'm also Bach-fanatic, a Handel-idolater, a Beethoven-worshiper, a Mozartian... and even a Brahmsian (among my multiple musical identities).


I fear for you. If you are all of those, you are none of them.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Do I contradict myself? 
Very well then I contradict myself, 
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) 

-Walt Whitman


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

*Repeating myself*



> I believe in God, Mozart and Beethoven, and likewise their disciples and apostles; - I believe in the Holy Spirit and the truth of the one, indivisible Art; - I believe that this Art proceeds from God, and lives within the hearts of all illumined men; - I believe that he who once has bathed in the sublime delights of this high Art, is consecrate to Her for ever, and never can deny Her; - I believe that through Art all men are saved. Richard Wagner


I don't buy all of this... but sometimes I think my Wagnerian reaction to Wagner's music is the closest I'll get to the concept of "Irresistible Grace."


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Ah, I was wondering when Sid James would make an appearance, as foretold...


_***** of Babylon_?...nah, that's not on-topic, that's where _Nabucco_ was king. Wrong opera composer, buddy, Verdi who wrote that was heaps better...


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

The answer is yes and it's best to say "No"!


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## Roberto (Jul 17, 2010)

- I believe that through Art all men are saved. Richard Wagner

Is this typical of his woolly semi-mystical thinking? How can Art save all men? It saved him but not his admirers. 

Moody's right - best to resist the dubious twilight world of RW. He's the heavy metal of 19th century classical music. In questionable taste and even morally dubious.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

It seems that some people have the deep seated delusion that they are Norse/Old Germanic gods (or maybe close relatives). Wagner is their crutch. So... to answer the question: yes, but it can't be easy.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I think I'm genetically predisposed to liking Russian composers, so hey, why couldn't you have it for German composers like Wagner?

:tiphat:

Seriously though, I think taste is genetic, thus being attracted to certain composers can be genetic. The will to act on it and be all explicitly verbal about your tastes (i.e. be a fanatic), that's more of choice.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I think I'm genetically predisposed to liking Russian composers, so hey, why couldn't you have it for German composers like Wagner?
> 
> :tiphat:
> 
> Seriously though, I think taste is genetic, thus being attracted to certain composers can be genetic. The will to act on it and be all explicitly verbal about your tastes (i.e. be a fanatic), that's more of choice.


I like the theory, but don't believe it (taste being genetic, that is; being an ******* about it probably _is_ voluntary).


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Wagnerite? Isnt that a rare element that robs composers of their powers of taste and subtlety....


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Badinerie said:


> Wagnerite? Isnt that a rare element that robs composers of their powers of taste and subtlety....


And originality too maybe?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't be hard on them, everyone has limitations, some more limited and galling than others


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