# Violinists: Do you play in the tempered scale?



## Philip

I've asked this question to a violinist acquaintance of mine, who is currently completing her doctorate in violin performance, but I couldn't get a straight answer... Of course she has a great ear and an amazing talent, but she didn't seem to be familiar with the concept, nor to particularly care.

Can violinists consciously toggle between various temperaments? Does practicing solo make you play off-key when accompanied by a piano or orchestra? Do you tune your strings in narrow fifths as opposed to natural intervals, or vice versa? Or do you simply do everything by ear and strive for the most esthetically pleasing sound?


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## GraemeG

An interesting question I've not thought much about.
The flip response is to say 'you're either in tune or you're not.'
Given that string players tune each string in concert with the adjacent one, then I guess they're natural intervals.
When you're playing you simply adjust. I mostly play orchestrally, rather than just with a keyboard. Orchestrally, you all have to work together; playing with a piano I suppose the string player effectively plays 'equal-temperament'.
An orchestra's a big band; woodwind & brass have enough trouble staying in any sort of tune when there are too many sharps and flats involved in any case; the notion of temperament might be a bit academic in these situations.
cheers,
GG


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## Argus

I rembember reading a study of string players intonational differences in varying ensembles in one of my acoustic books. They found that the best players will naturally play in just intonation when in a string quartet format or performing solo but when playing with an equally tempered instrument will automatically intone to match the accompaniment. The same goes for choirs in a cappella vs orchestral situations. However, less accomplished players tended to always play in equal temperament as a default, as minute fingering changes for each modulation just causes unnecessary problems, especially considering most people aren't aware ET isn't the only way. 

Also, I think the slight tuning differences add to the chorussing effect in orchestras, plus the heavy use of vibrato on every note should blur the differences into a whole that the ear comprehends as a single tone.

As for my violin playing ability, I'm chuffed if I can hit the right notes in any temperament, never mind equal. I'll just say I meant the duff note and was playing perfectly in quarter comma meantone.


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## Delicious Manager

There is a dizzying array of temperaments - each with plenty of plus and minus points. If playing with any kind of keyboard instrument one has to stick that temperament (Valotti seems to be a common 'compromise' temperamant in period-instrument Baroque music). The absence of a keyboard (rare in 'basso continuo'-led music) lends more freedom.

The differences between various temperaments are often defined by mere 'cents' in intonation (a 'cent' is 100th of a semitone) and takes years of practice and experience to master. We have become so used to 'equal temperamant' that some musicians have lost the aural skills to deal with temperamant satisfactorily.


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## World Violist

I've had issues playing with pianists before, particularly when playing Arvo Part's "Fur Alina." The overtones in it are so bare that you have to be in tune with the piano, which is nearly impossible for string players because we tune notes so that they're in tune with each other, not so that they're all in tune with every other note (chief difference between playing string instruments and piano). As another example, I was playing in a chamber music camp last summer and was told that I need to tune my C string (lowest one) quite a bit higher than I normally would so that it would be in tune with the rest of the ensemble. It worked perfectly; I've never played quite so in tune in my life, yet the intervals between the strings were much closer than normal.

Basically what I'm getting at is that string players tune differently for different contexts and subconsciously adapt when we need to.


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## Argus

Delicious Manager said:


> The differences between various temperaments are often defined by mere 'cents' in intonation (a 'cent' is 100th of a semitone) and takes years of practice and experience to master. We have become so used to 'equal temperamant' that some musicians have lost the aural skills to deal with temperamant satisfactorily.


The crucial tones that sound off in equal temperament are the thirds, and their inverse the sixths. The 15 cents difference is quite noticable. However, I don't hear these deviations as being necessarily bad, it just means different tunings, tempered or not, have different 'flavours'. You get used to the beating of ET and I'd say most people have become so familiar with it that just intoned intervals sound 'off' to their ears.

I don't think musicians have lost the aural skills as the trained ear can easily hear the beats and do their best to remove them if wanted. It's a matter of choice whether they like the beats or they like purer consonance.

I'll add I remember an interview with the violinist Tony Conrad who said that most of his time spent in The Dream Syndicate he was simply trying to sustain perfect consonant intervals and that was basically the entire music.


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## Philip

Thanks guys that clears things up.


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