# The best non-HIP "Big Band" Beethoven Symphony set that isn't Karajan?



## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

I would like a non-HIP "big band" Beethoven Symphony set to contrast my Gardiner set. I was looking at the Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin but it left me cold. The most immediate criteria is that the repeat of 4th movement of the 5th symphony is taken, it is _crucial_.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Non-HIP "big band" of these epic works,


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## GKC (Jun 2, 2011)

Karl Bohm/Vienna on DG

Osmo Vanska/Minnesota on BIS

Don't know about the repeat in the 4th movement of no. 5, though.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> Non-HIP "big band" of these epic works,


Harnoncourt is one of the major figures in HIP, and these recordings are performed by a chamber orchestra.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> Harnoncourt is one of the major figures in HIP, and these recordings are performed by a chamber orchestra.


On modern instruments although with relative influence of historically informed performance practice. This set sounds more towards what the OP is looking for compared with a pure HIP version (say Gardiner's). Have you listened to any in the set?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Note that Harnncourt's set is not 'big band'. It's with a chamber orchestra.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

*"This is traditional Golden Age stuff where Morris rejects HIP strictures and embraces red-blooded engagement in a way that may now make some blench. It's full flavour, full-on Beethoven - potent, romping, athletic and not in a lean way either."*

From this review.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Note that Harnncourt's set is not 'big band'. It's with a chamber orchestra.


True but today the recording engineers can record it in such a way that a smaller band can have a big sound.

Note the OP's additional criteria: _The most immediate criteria is that the repeat of 4th movement of the 5th symphony is taken, it is crucial. _


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## haydnfan (Apr 13, 2011)

Chailly, Davis, Konwitschny. All big band, all take the repeat.




























I've only heard the Chailly which is my current favorite, but I the other two conductors in general.


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## haydnfan (Apr 13, 2011)

When I was trying to check one of my favorites (which doesn't take the repeat) I accidentally discovered those other two do from reviews, that's how I know. Thought I would explain why I would mention two recordings that I haven't heard before!


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Ticks all the boxes.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

haydnfan said:


> Chailly, Davis, Konwitschny. All big band, all take the repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Chailly is my favorite as well, in spite of the ugly cd cover...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

GioCar said:


> The Chailly is my favorite as well, in spite of the ugly cd cover...


He doesn't think it's ugly. He hauls the set out every night and stares at the cover, thinking what a handsome chap he is, how deeply insightful those eyes.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Chailly, as above, is one of my favourites (alongside Gardiner and Zinman).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Polyphemus said:


> View attachment 73996
> 
> 
> Ticks all the boxes.


This is an excellent set, moderate and quite musical. I think it contrasts nicely with Gardiner. Chailly is excellent too, but more intense. Something for everyone, truly.


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## Tedski (Jul 8, 2015)

Dr Johnson said:


> *"This is traditional Golden Age stuff where Morris rejects HIP strictures and embraces red-blooded engagement in a way that may now make some blench. It's full flavour, full-on Beethoven - potent, romping, athletic and not in a lean way either."*
> 
> From this review.


Wyn Morris's name is new to me. Interesting article about him here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/wyn-morris-conductor-whose-gifts-were-undermined-by-his-relations-with-musicians-and-administrators-1930697.html


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tedski said:


> Wyn Morris's name is new to me. Interesting article about him here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/wyn-morris-conductor-whose-gifts-were-undermined-by-his-relations-with-musicians-and-administrators-1930697.html


His version of Beethoven's 5th was the first I heard (on cassette (!) in the 80s).


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

The Leibovitz set is excellent and big band, but at HIP tempos. I will have to check my list of who takes what repeats though.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Bizarre that someone thinks that Chailly picture is ugly. In fact I think it's one of the very few classical CD covers that _isn't_ ugly.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Schmidt-Isserstedt / VPO


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

For classic, slower tempo, big band recordings: Otto Klemperer, Paul Kletzki or Karl Bohm
For modern, moderate tempo, big band recordings: Gunter Wand or Herbert Blomstedt
For big band, fast and furious Beethoven: Chailly


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

The following take the Repeat in IV of the Fifth (not all are big band):
Bernstein, NY and Vienna both 
Hogwood AAM (HIP)
Jochum, London
C Kleiber, Vienna
Waldman, St. Petersburg
Zander, Philharmonia (HIP tempos)
Zinman, Zurich (HIP tempos)

For reference, the following do not take the repeat:
Blomstedt, Dresden
Furtwangler, Berlin 1943
Karajan, Philharmonia 1954
Karajan, Berlin 1962 & 1977
Leibovitz, RSO
Munch, Boston
Nikisch, Berlin
Szell, Cleveland
Toscanini NBC 1939, 1952

If anyone cares to add to my list, feel free. For full big band cycles on my list that take that repeat you're probably limited to Bernstein and Jochum. Kleiber and Waldman don't have complete cycles to my knowledge. The others are at least partly HIP. I need to check that Haitink set some day.


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