# Subconscious Listening



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I just listened to Bruckner's Symphony No. 2, while doing another task. I noticed that when it was over, all I remembered was that it was ending, because it got louder and more intense. Other than that, I remember nothing of it.

Does this mean it was "musical wallpaper," or is the fault mine, for not listening?

Does music always have to involve conscious effort in order for us to derive any meaning from it? Does this vary in different kinds of music?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I think it depends on the ability of the listener, and how much effort they still put into listening when doing other stuff. Sometimes I can pick out nice and ugly moments in unfamiliar music to me when doing other stuff. Sometimes during more stressful times the mood of the music is really at odds with what is happening at the forefront, and I turn it off in disgust. Too many variables in my opinion.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I think I've written about this before. When I was young, the slow movement of the Hammerklavier never made any sense to me,until I put it on one day after work and lay down to read and began to fall asleep. In the in-between, not quite conscious stage, the music blossomed in my mind and turned glorious and I've never had difficulty appreciating it since. Some thing to be said for subconscious listening.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

No good call, I just am now listening to Bruckner's 2nd symphony,,,All I hear is Beethoven mixed in with new ideas. maybe from Tchaikovsky? 
Also from Dvorak?

Its rather listless, just going on and on, nothing really majestic, its surreal background music for sure,.,,I don't want to say,,,vapid , but it certainly meanders and ,,,there,,,Beethoven yet once again...Its almost like Beethoven's spirit infused , engrained its presence within every composer, post Beethoven...oops, there yet again, Beethoven. 
Its like I am listening to ~variations of themes by Beethoven~
But you can tell Bruckner is testing his wings and is about to fly in another direction, away from Beethoven's influences. 


I can see how this symphony hypnotically diffuses ones attention allowing you to drift. This symphony is a like a collage of sorts, nothing memorable,. Its a youthful , testing grounds work.

EDIT
have to back pedal a bit, 
I am now hearing much influences from Mozart. Seems every composer in history were influenced by both, Beethoven and Mozart. 
btw, this 2nd symphony is pretty good actually. Its a calming, laid back and really lovely work.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

I prefer Bruckner's 2nd symphony to any Beethoven symphony. 
A good topic would be
Who wrote the better Adagios 
Mahler 
Or 
Bruckner?
I have to give the nod, with no hesitation to Bruckner. 

I also prefer Bruckner to Brahms and Dvorak and Tchaikovsky.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> Does music always have to involve conscious effort in order for us to derive any meaning from it? Does this vary in different kinds of music?


I think it goes both ways; there is value in concentrated listening with a score and there is value in just letting the music play. It's like the classic exchange between Berg and Webern: Berg was impressed with a mountain and Webern was impressed with a flower.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

It may be worth exploring hypnotism. There l know that the subject can often remember nothing about the session, but we know by his behaviour that he was listening very attentively.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It depends on how complex the music is and whether I'm familiar with it beforehand.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2019)

I find that listening without paying attention has little or no value. I don't purposefully put music on as background, but if I am listening to something and get distracted until notice that it has ended, it is as if I never heard it.

The one exception may be when encountering a very long piece and a cursory initial listen my give an idea of the broad outline of the piece, which gives me something to organize my response during a more careful later listening.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Does this mean it was "musical wallpaper," or is the fault mine, for not listening?


The fault is yours for treating it like musical wallpaper.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

If you heard it but unconsciously then your memory of it will remain unconscious, I think. But the experience might influence further hearings for you. I'm not sure how that could be tested, though.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

My brain has a few different gears. If I'm doing something fairly mindless (some tasks at work are like this) I can still fruitfully listen to music and get something out of it. There was a time when I was in the habit of listening to music while doing jigsaw puzzles, which is pretty low-intensity, brain-wise, and listening to music while doing that was perfect. It also helped that I never really cared how fast I ended up putting the puzzle together. The combination of the two would sometimes even get me into something like a trance state which can sometimes be better than active concentration. Maybe it's just a personal quirk or failing of mine, but sometimes when I try _too_ hard to focus on something, I find that focus to be more elusive.

If I have to do something like reading, or active problem solving, then forget it. The music may as well not even be there. I think it just doesn't register, so I typically don't listen to music in those cases. Actually, music can be distracting when I need to focus on something else.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with musical wallpaper. You're not causing the music any offense or injury by treating it that way.


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## Schoenberg (Oct 15, 2018)

I have noticed the same thing, but I have also noticed that even after listening to something in the background and not directly remembering it, on subsequent listenings where I actually pay attention to the music I can remember specific passages, even though it is the first time I've listened to the music paying attention to it. The original phenomenon however, that we cannot unconsciously appreciate music exists for all music, no matter how great the music is. I've even noticed this phenomenon when listening to Beethoven's 9th symphony. As a result, now I always listen to the music while doing no other task, so that I can fully appreciate the music, and not pay disrespect to the music.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Ambient is often intended to be background, mood, space enhancing music for subconscious listening. People can dislike that all they want, but when the music is specifically intended as such it is not a "fault", it is what it is and comparisons to "regular" music for active listening do not make sense.
My favorite ambient music means a lot to me even though I listen often to it with only half my attention, while doing other things. I don't think you can even "get" ambient if you only listen to it actively like you'd listen to other music. 
It's simply a very nice alternative to silence or actual (non-music) background sounds.

As far as classical music, I can only play it in the background when I'm very familiar with the music, otherwise it is annoying. When a familiar piece is playing in the background I might still be "pulled in" during (louder) key moments in the music, or even get goosebumps during those moments. Again, this only happens when I'm already very familiar with the music. So I don't think it's disrespectful to the music in that case.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

millionrainbows said:


> Does music always have to involve conscious effort in order for us to derive any meaning from it?


yes, music takes awareness on the part of a listener.


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

Definitely yes,I would say,letting go the effort enhances the possibility to become one with what is intended behind the notes.
Attention is a matter of an active mind is that a matter of effort?


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

DeepR said:


> Ambient is often intended to be background, mood, space enhancing music for subconscious listening. People can dislike that all they want, but when the music is specifically intended as such it is not a "fault", it is what it is and comparisons to "regular" music for active listening do not make sense.
> My favorite ambient music means a lot to me even though I listen often to it with only half my attention, while doing other things. I don't think you can even "get" ambient if you only listen to it actively like you'd listen to other music.
> It's simply a very nice alternative to silence or actual (non-music) background sounds.
> 
> As far as classical music, I can only play it in the background when I'm very familiar with the music, otherwise it is annoying. When a familiar piece is playing in the background I might still be "pulled in" during (louder) key moments in the music, or even get goosebumps during those moments. Again, this only happens when I'm already very familiar with the music. So I don't think it's disrespectful to the music in that case.


yes, I think the difference is that a lot of classical music (especially before the twentieth century, with modern classical it's a bit different story) is music with a "story". So it's like watching a movie with a lot of things going on, if you don't pay attention to the plot you're lost. On the other hand music like ambient or anything that's more based on sound and atmosphere, or even rhythm more than development can be experienced and appreciated without paying full attention to every second because the "plot" is not the central aspect.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Listening to CM in which there is supposed to be a narrative, and development, and That's where the meaning lies, is like reading. Other music, like some pop or minimalism, is like driving.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Subconscious listening is what I would call listening to music in the background, sometimes when reading or studying, and sometimes it can be a good introduction to difficult works or new performances of the old because the conscious mind does not set up resistance. I can do that and still remember the performance because the subconscious mind hears everything and an impression is made of the work as a whole. Then one can consciously listen to it later if a favorable impression is made with it on in the background. This is not cheating and I do not believe that one has to be entirely stationary like a captive in a chair in order to hear recordings. But more importantly, there is no one way to hear music. It’s a living thing and can be heard in a variety of imaginative, creative ways.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Larkenfield said:


> Subconscious listening is what I would call listening to music in the background, sometimes when reading or studying, and sometimes it can be a good introduction to difficult works or new performances of the old because the conscious mind does not set up resistance. I can do that and still remember the performance because the subconscious mind hears everything and an impression is made of the work as a whole. Then one can consciously listen to it later if a favorable impression is made with it on in the background. This is not cheating and I do not believe that one has to be entirely stationary like a captive in a chair in order to hear recordings. But more importantly, there is no one way to hear music. It's a living thing and can be heard in a variety of imaginative, creative ways.


As you said, that way of listening will only take you so far. I still maintain that most CM symphonies, string quartets, and concertos are developmental, and require our attention for the best benefit.


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