# Op. 127



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Slow movement...is this the finest movement in the late quartets? There's something astonishing in almost every bar! But it seems to get no respect. What do you think?


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

My favorite of all the Beethoven quartets; Plus, the fact that it's in my favorite key of E flat major makes it all the better. I'm not sure about the getting no respect part, but I want to say, and in good spirits, that this particular quartet is loved by many. Sometimes it can be a disadvantage being first. 

I think the quartet as a whole is superb. The opening allegro is bold and majestic, but to my ears it always sounded a bit harsh. Of course, what follows, not only do I consider this particular movement to be the finest and most earnest of all the late quartets slow movements, it's one of my absolute favorites in the idiom of theme and variation. The Scherzando that follows is simply exhilarating and one of his best. The work concludes appropriately.

Of course, all this wouldn't have been possible were it not for the ethereal key of E flat Major. :lol:


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Besides its merits standing alone, 127 is the introduction and the harbinger. 132 would be more difficult to chew on without it, and 130/133... hoo-haw, the Devil's Scourge. Contemporaries had a hard enough time as it was.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I have previously posted that, if I were forced at gunpoint to declare my favorite Beethoven quartet, this would be it. It's also the piece of music I would broadcast, wide spectrum, out to the rest of the unverse to let them know we were once here.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Probably my favourite of the quartets too, there's a certain life enhancing quality to it. In that sense it's like his equivalent of the Pastoral symphony. My kind of music.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Glad to see that Op. 127 is not at all unheralded. I concur with all above thus far. A terrific piece. The finale is absolutely spectacular, with one of those melodies that _the exact moment you hear it_, you just want to listen to it again, and again -- something powerful and epic in there.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

TheProudSquire said:


> . . . Plus, the fact that it's in my favorite key of E flat major makes it all the better. . .


I've never understood the concept of favorite keys if we are using equal temperament. Or do strings naturally fall closer to just intonation? I don't want to derail the topic. Maybe I'll start or look for a thread about this.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Weston said:


> I've never understood the concept of favorite keys if we are using equal temperament. Or do strings naturally fall closer to just intonation? I don't want to derail the topic. Maybe I'll start or look for a thread about this.


Um... hey! I have questions about temperament and tuning of non-fretted string instruments too. Do start a thread, _Weston_.


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

Weston said:


> I've never understood the concept of favorite keys if we are using equal temperament. Or do strings naturally fall closer to just intonation? I don't want to derail the topic. Maybe I'll start or look for a thread about this.


I couldn't really say, Weston. I've always been attracted to works in that key more so than any other. I think A thread to explore this case further would be a good idea.


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## Beethoven14 (Feb 14, 2019)

KenOC said:


> Slow movement...is this the finest movement in the late quartets? There's something astonishing in almost every bar! But it seems to get no respect. What do you think?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

No. 12 in Eb is my least favorite. I don't group it with 13-16.

Violins are tuned to open notes G-D-A-E. So this makes Eb a key with its tonic as a pressed note, not open. The Eb major scale has a G (the third) and a D (the seventh). That G-D is a nice open fifth, then you can just lay your index finger down and resolve it to Eb. That sounds like a real fiddler's key. And I'm sure Beethoven was thinking, "What's going to get this barn-dance moving?"


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> No. 12 in Eb is my least favorite. I don't group it with 13-15.


No love for 16 either it seems...? 16 is my favorite of the late quartets, but I've only heard 3 of them. I'll check out the E-flat one in a little bit.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

KenOC said:


> Slow movement...is this the finest movement in the late quartets? There's something astonishing in almost every bar! But it seems to get no respect. What do you think?


I love quartet No. 12 and favour it over any string quartet that Beethoven wrote before it, perhaps with the sole exception No. 7, and I share your feelings for it's sublime slow movement. That said, it's my least favorite of the late quartets, No. 16 included.


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

What can I say? It’s one of Beethoven’s Late Quartets... of course it’s sublime. Every movement is perfect, but the Adagio is perhaps my favorite. It is another example of Beethoven getting the most out of the simplest material.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Listened this morning and didn't get much out of it... need to retry that with score in hand. For some reason I never get nearly as much out of Beethoven's quartets unless I'm reading along.

I also must confess that I have never been terribly impressed with the late quartets outside of 14, 16, and the Große Fuge.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

When I was first getting acquainted with the late quartets at about age 16 or 17, my two favorites were Opp. 127 and 132. The slow movements of both were inexpressibly moving to me, and although the stunningly original "Heilige Dankgesang" of Op. 132 may not affect me quite as much as it once did (although I haven't heard it for years), the rich and soulful theme-and-variations of Op.127 still seems to me as great a slow movement as anyone has ever written.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

There are two performances of it that I know which are really exceptional. One is the Amadeus Quartet made for Rias on Audite. The other is the second (1971) recording by the Smetana Quartet


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> the rich and soulful theme-and-variations of Op.127 still seems to me as great a slow movement as anyone has ever written.


He's good at creating a sense of stillness, time standing still, and at the same time a sense of ritual. For reasons I don't fully understand the music sounds rooted in the ancient to me. All these things give the variations an aura of the holy I think -- op 111/ii is similar. He was, of course, very interested in Eastern religions when he was writing this music.

I've been listening to so much Mozart recently, and I've been so impressed by his variations, that in truth I'd forgotten how good Beethoven can be at variations too.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Beethoven14 said:


>


Heart-wrenchingly poignant! What was in Beethoven's mind when he wrote it? We know he wasn't particularly well during his last few years. I find the following orchestrated version interesting, but it doesn't have the substance of the actual quartet.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DaveM said:


> Heart-wrenchingly poignant! What was in Beethoven's mind when he wrote it? We know he wasn't particularly well during his last few years...


I believe that Beethoven suffered from intestinal problems all through the composition of Op. 127 in 1824-25, but they grew much worse afterward and he feared he would die of the illness. However, he recovered in 1825, and he celebrated his recovery in the next quartet, Op. 132.

After that he was in fair shape for a while, until his final illness struck in December 1826 after he had completed the new finale to the Op. 130. He was then mostly bedridden until his death in March 1827.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> Listened this morning and didn't get much out of it... need to retry that with score in hand. For some reason I never get nearly as much out of Beethoven's quartets unless I'm reading along.
> 
> I also must confess that I have never been terribly impressed with the late quartets outside of 14, 16, and the Große Fuge.


It's hard not to love moments like this one:
5:35 I consider this to be one of the most emotionally intense moments in late Beethoven in the 'classical' sense.




I'm moved by moments like this in string quartet endings with repeating motifs accompanied by 'elongated' slurred lyrical harmonies in half notes and dotted half notes, giving a sense of optimism, hope, glory: kind of reminiscent of measure 250 in Mozart K464 first movement


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

It's the late quartet I return to most frequently. My favorite recorded performance is that by the Yale Quartet. The meter of the slow movement -- 12/8 -- has special significance to Beethoven, who also turned to it in the Benedictus of the Missa Solemnis, parts of the Pastoral and Ninth symphonies.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Disappointed that nobody has made a Seven Blok Romances comment yet...

Of course this is not only a superb string Quartet, a great work of art, and great to listen to. But I continue to struggle to give it as much affection as any of the ensuing Quartets, and quite a few that came before. It's a colder work than Opp.130,131,132 as far as I am concerned, even in the slow movement. Weird....


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Beethoven14 said:


>


 Wonderful performance. This entire slow movement seems like one long sublime, blissful moment. It sounds like he's out of his mind with some kind of sweet ecstasy. There are also some graceful chromatic harmonies that are really out of this world. Just wow. And to think, he was probably so far gone in his deafness, only two years before his death, that this was all going on in his head and there was no outer confirmation of its beauty by actually hearing it performed by others. Somehow that seems to suggest that he had a great deal of faith in the reality of what he was hearing inside his head.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2019)

I also am tempted to name Op 127 as my favorite Beethoven String Quartet. The slow movement is a particular attraction because it is profound and succinct. But really, Op 127, 130, 131, 132, 135, I can't pick a favorite.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Good to see a revival of interest in the Op. 127 six years after this thread was started! 

But Beethoven never really goes out of style.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I don't know if I could choose between this one and the Op. 131. 132 could take either on the right day, mostly on the strength of the slow movement. It was a long road for me to come to appreciate the late quartets, and there's still some distance for me to go, but when the mood strikes, there's nothing else that scratches the itch. Studying them pretty extensively in university helped open the doors for me a little bit, I think. I wrote an analysis particularly on the slow movement of Op. 127 -- there's some pretty advanced harmonies!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

As another listener said, "People who think Beethoven is too challenging should try this quartet."




KenOC said:


> I believe that Beethoven suffered from intestinal problems all through the composition of Op. 127 in 1824-25, but they grew much worse afterward and he feared he would die of the illness.


Yes, I can sense that in this quartet, and I empathize completely.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Slow movement...is this the finest movement in the late quartets? There's something astonishing in almost every bar! But it seems to get no respect. What do you think?


Didn't you start a thread saying the same thing about op. 131 in C#?

So make up your minds, is it this one or Op. 127?

And why is it always the slow movements?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I gave it another chance with the score in front of me. I enjoyed it more, but it still didn’t make the same impression on me that the middle quartets did. The slow movement, while interesting, seemed overlong. I really liked the coda of the finale. Reminded me of the end of the Serioso quartet. The long Scherzo was cool too. I’ll return to this one later in life. 

Next I might try and tackle the B-flat major... though it’s possible the late quartets are not for me. I love the late piano sonatas, though.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Reminded me of the end of the Serioso quartet.


This is an interesting quartet. There's a special performance by the Skampa Quartet


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> This is an interesting quartet.


Have you read Mark Evan Bonds' brilliant journal article "Irony and Incomprehensibility: Beethoven's 'Serioso' String Quartet in F Minor, Op. 95, and the Path to the Late Style?" It's one of the best pieces of Beethoven scholarship in recent years, IMO, and absolutely essential reading for anyone interested in the work. It's published in the Journal of the American Musicological Society -- if you're attached to an institution somehow you can probably get at it for free.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

MrMeatScience said:


> Have you read Mark Evan Bonds' brilliant journal article "Irony and Incomprehensibility: Beethoven's 'Serioso' String Quartet in F Minor, Op. 95, and the Path to the Late Style?" It's one of the best pieces of Beethoven scholarship in recent years, IMO, and absolutely essential reading for anyone interested in the work. It's published in the Journal of the American Musicological Society -- if you're attached to an institution somehow you can probably get at it for free.


Unfortunately I'm not a member of a university library any more.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

for Beethoven late quartet standards I think it's a bit gimmicky


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Razumovskymas said:


> for Beethoven late quartet standards I think it's a bit gimmicky


What can this possibly mean?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> What can this possibly mean?


It's a pun, because the word spelled backwards is "ykcimmig". Get it?


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I mean the parts with the more uptempo dance-like theme take a bit too much space (in my very subjective opinion).


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Wow, such an old thread but I agree it's a great movement. The Belcea quartet manage the whole quartet really well with some lovely natural earthiness in their playing.


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