# Ghost conductors / Pseudonyms / Wrong Attributions



## RobertJTh

Fascinating subject, this.

We all know the series of budget releases from the early days of cd's, with conductors like Alfred Scholtz, Alberto Lizzio, Cesare Cantieri and Denis Zsoltay conducting famous orchestras like the South German Philharmonic, the London Festival Orchestra or the Philharmonia Slavonica that somehow ended up polluting our cd collections. Most of them came with garish covers, with the magical letters DDD in bigger font than the names of the performers.

And some weren't even that bad. Which made you assume that there were once real, talented musicians playing their hearts out, only to end up getting their recordings distributed on shady labels with false names. Those can be rather frustrating for the music collector.

For instance, years ago, I found this rarity at my local thrift store:









As a Bruckner aficionado I was of course curious about these performances. Somehow fake attributions for Bruckner are rather rare. No wonder, in the 60's and 70's his symphonies weren't played that much by the provincial orchestras that were the main source for the forgeries of Scholtz and his affiliates. And certainly not the technically challenging 5th or the unpopular 6th.

So, what is this? Cohn Weiss is so obscure that he doesn't even show up in the list of usual suspects on this website:
https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Budget_recordings_of_Alfred_Scholz
And of course this isn't the Vienna Phil, but it's an orchestra that CAN play Bruckner, they don't embarrass themselves and neither does the unknown conductor.
The performance of the 5th is a bit stiff, but pretty disciplined, in what you could call typical Kapellmeister style. The 6th is more convincing, again surprisingly tight ensemble and more naturally flowing. Is this even the same conductor?
Recording is shrill, seems early stereo, with some overload. Not very enjoyable, but passable. The booklet claims a recording date of 1978, yeah no.

So, what are the favorite items from your cabinet of unidentifiable, misattributed or just plain fake cd horrors?


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## joen_cph

In spite of a very poor sound, I remember liking this old, engaged if messy "_Emperor Concerto_" performance released on the Allegro LP label, by "Eric Silver"; the conductor isn't even named.









(turns out there are even MP3 options for it on Amazon nowadays).

But these days, I always avoid or clear out such stuff, I don't keep it.

The only exceptions are a couple of recordings by "Felix Heiss" and the "Danzig Philharmonic", including a _Tchaikovsky 4th Symphony. _

I haven't worked on identifying the recordings further, but they have a certain individual charm and some peculiar details.


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## wkasimer

How can I forget this famous misattribution? Siegfried from Bayreuth 1953, conducted by Keilberth, was billed as the Dresden State Opera conducted by Fritz Schreiber.


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## Animal the Drummer

joen_cph said:


> In spite of a very poor sound, I remember liking this old, engaged if messy "_Emperor Concerto_" performance released on the Allegro LP label, by "Erik Silver"; the conductor isn't even named.
> 
> View attachment 160775
> 
> 
> (turns out there are even MP3 options for it on Amazon nowadays).
> 
> But these days, I always avoid or clear out such stuff, I don't keep it.
> 
> The only exceptions are a couple of recordings by "Felix Heiss" and the "Danzig Philharmonic", including a _Tchaikovsky 4th Symphony. _
> 
> I haven't worked on identifying the recordings further, but they have a certain individual charm and some peculiar details.
> 
> View attachment 160777


We had that one too when I was a kid! Loved it - as you say, it's a committed performance, because of which the "Emperor" was my favourite piece when I first got into classical music. A good few years later (though still quite a while ago) I saw a CD advertised in a bargain mail order catalogue which did give a conductor's name, one Alfred van Weth.

My favourite pseudonym was on an LP of Mozart's D minor piano concerto which I saw once at a friend's house in those days. The conductor on that recording rejoiced in the name of Wilhelm Havagesse.


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## joen_cph

That's pretty funny and surprising, an 'Emperor Concerto' that must have had a bit of availability on the market then ...


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## RobertJTh

There's the famous Kabasta/Munich Dvorak 8th, which was once attributed to Furtwängler...









And the strange case of Draeseke's 3rd Symphony:









An early 50's recording by Hermann Desser - or a wartime performance by Heinz Drewes?



joen_cph said:


> I remember liking this old, engaged if messy "_Emperor Concerto_" performance released on the Allegro LP label, by "Eric Silver"; the conductor isn't even named.


Maybe it was Morton Gold?


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## Kreisler jr

There was also a Haydn 104? attr. to Furtwängler that was conducted by someone else but I forgot who. I think the only authentic Haydn from Furtwängler are #88 and #94.

An unsolved mystery seems to be the "Caspar da Salo quartet". On PILZ/"Vienna Masters"* and other cheapo labels there are about 4 discs worth attributed to them: One Haydn op. 64, one Haydn anthology (I have not heard this but apparently the "Lark quartet" on that anthology is clearly different from the one on the cplt op.64, so there are maybe two different ensembles envolved) and one Schubert Death and maiden quartet. This op.64 is quite good. I once thought that it could have been an East German ensemble but it is definitely not the Berliner Streichquartett (on Eterna/Berlin Classics). Supposedly it was recorded in or around Stuttgart in the 1980s but this could be wrong. If it is correct, it could have been a Swiss or South German ensemble, maybe a "pickup" ensemble from the first chairs of a radio orchestra...

*Many of the PILZ recordings do not use pseudonyms; e.g. Bach with Jaccottet is authentic, so is (I believe) Scarlatti with Dubravka Tomsic. Anton Nanut was also a real conductor etc...


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## Heck148

This isn't exactly on topic of the OP, but it's pretty close -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_Camden

the RCA Camden recordings:

RCA Victor originally reissued its older 78rpm Red Seal classical symphonic recordings on the Camden label using the actual names of the symphony orchestras involved; but soon, to avoid competing with recent full-priced recordings by the same orchestras, a series of pseudonyms were used, drawn primarily from the names of hotels in nearby Philadelphia, across the Delaware River from RCA Victor's headquarters in Camden. Here is a partial listing of the real orchestras and their pseudonyms:

BBC Symphony Orchestra - Thames Symphony Orchestra
*Boston Pops Orchestra - Festival Concert Orchestra
Boston Symphony Orchestra - Centennial Symphony Orchestra
Chicago Symphony Orchestra - Century Symphony Orchestra*
*Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra - Cromwell Symphony Orchestra*
Henri Rene and his Orchestra - Cosmopolitan Orchestra
*Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra - Star Symphony Orchestra
Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra - Sussex Symphony Orchestra
London Philharmonic Orchestra - Stratford Symphony Orchestra
London Symphony Orchestra - Jewel Symphony Orchestra
Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra - Marlborough Symphony Orchestra
National Symphony Orchestra - Globe Symphony Orchestra
*Paris Conservatory Orchestra - Seine Symphony Orchestra
*Philadelphia Orchestra - Warwick Symphony Orchestra*
RCA Victor Symphony Orchestra - Regent Symphony Orchestra or Golden Symphony Orchestra
*Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra - Savoy Symphony or Schuyler Symphony Orchestra
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra - World Wide Symphony
Toronto Symphony Orchestra - Dominion Symphony Orchestra
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra - Danube Symphony Orchestra*


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## david johnson

I have wondered about Cyril Holloway and the Hampshire Symphony Orchestra that had a few lps on Dot.


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## Animal the Drummer

joen_cph said:


> That's pretty funny and surprising, an 'Emperor Concerto' that must have had a bit of availability on the market then ...


Amazingly after all these years, I've just had another tip about this recording. I mentioned it to a knowledgeable friend who told me that he'd once seen an article which suggested it might have been pirated from a live performance by Wilhelm Backhaus broadcast on radio.


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## Merl

I've written several pieces, on various threads, about Mr Scholz and his dodgy recordings. There's very little to add really. At the start of the cd age Scholz flooded the new European market with a range of recordings which were bootlegged, stolen from rehearsal tapes, recorded by scratch bands, recorded by students, friends, recorded by pick-up orchestras, recorded by decent artists for one-off backhanders, etc. Each time pseudonyms were used to protect Scholz and Co from any action. This is further complicated as most of the people involved in these dodgy dealings are either now dead or retired and those alive will not divulge any info due to copyright / licensing issues. Believe me, I've tried to contact numerous people over the years but all roads lead to a dead-end.

The only clues are often in the names of the orchestras / ensembles used in these recordings. Therefore if the pseudonym used is of a German orchestra its likely to be from a German source, Czech ensembles are generally just that. My old Supraphon contact told me that that he was told that there was a lot of recordings nicked from rare random defunct indies in Europe and a lot of orchestral recordings came from the Bamberg Symphony Orchestra but he wouldn't bet his house on it. Scholz was said to have passed himself off as a fairly capable conductor who studied under Swarowski but this has never been confirmed. He had a large studio and knew his way around recording consoles (or knew many who were more capable). The old Supraphon rep (who said he knew him) said he was well connected and could be "very persuasive" There have been various rumours over the years about some of the orchestras, pianists and string quartet ensembles involved (VPO, Quartetto Italiano, Travnicek Quartet, Gunther Wand, Vlach Quartet, etc) and its possible some well-known orchestras and ensembles are involved but the truth is we'll never know. I would love to follow all this up with a documentary as I still find the whole subject fascinating but it's never gonna happen (unless some kind person gives me a job and unlimited budget to pursue this).

Btw, Robert, I strongly suspect that your mystery Bruckner recording is a pick-up orchestra made up of members of the Vienna State Orchestra or members of the Vienna State Opera but it could be any Austrian orchestra (or even German, tbh). I suspect too that it is a product of Scholz's dodgy recordings even if its not one of the labels he's normally associated with. Hans Swarowski, Milan Horvat and especially Carl Melles were often the target of Scholz's bootlegged tapes or Swarowski's very capable conducting students and it could be them. Personally, I've not heard that specific Bruckner recording but if I do I'll let you know what I think.

Edit: delving a little further and with the info provided I actually suspect this is a Milan Horvat and ORF Symphonieorchester (Austrian Broadcaster) recorded in the early 70s. All the clues seem to fit.

Btw, here's one of my previous posts replying to thread about Scholz recordings.

Looking for information about 2 specific recordings of music by Edvard Grieg


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## RobertJTh

@Merl, thanks for the detailed info and your investigations, I didn't realize so much was already written about it and researched. It's an interesting subject indeed, and it's frustrating that we'll never get to the bottom of it...

Regarding the mystery Bruckner 5 and 6, I consulted abruckner.com and the attribution to Horvat makes sense.
https://www.abruckner.com/recordings/Horvat/Milan
There's a Horvat Bruckner 4th doing the rounds under the usual fake names, but no mention of 5 or 6. His discography at discogs only has that 4th too. Curiously enough there seems to be only a single 5th and a single 6th Scholtz "ghost recording" going around, the listed times are pretty close to the "Cohn Weiss" one too.

My guess is that, if it's Horvat/ORF, it must be some non-official off-radio recording of some kind, never destined for an official release. Which accounts for the less than brilliant audio quality too. Interpretation-wise I find it quite solid though, the conductor and his band clearly knew what they were doing.


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## Triplets

joen_cph said:


> In spite of a very poor sound, I remember liking this old, engaged if messy "_Emperor Concerto_" performance released on the Allegro LP label, by "Eric Silver"; the conductor isn't even named.
> 
> View attachment 160775
> 
> 
> (turns out there are even MP3 options for it on Amazon nowadays).
> 
> But these days, I always avoid or clear out such stuff, I don't keep it.
> 
> The only exceptions are a couple of recordings by "Felix Heiss" and the "Danzig Philharmonic", including a _Tchaikovsky 4th Symphony. _
> 
> I haven't worked on identifying the recordings further, but they have a certain individual charm and some peculiar details.
> 
> View attachment 160777


The Danzig Philharmonic? Danzig hasn't existed under that name since the end of WWII. How about the Pompei Festival Chamber Orchestra?


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## joen_cph

Yes, in theory it could be an orchestra of exile members, such did exist at least, but it probably isn't.


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## Geoff48

The city Danzig was renamed after the second World war so clearly this is a pseudonym. Having said which this was an exciting passionate performance and had the recording been better would have been a front runner for best ever Tchaikovsky 4th. Incidentally the end of the second movement is interesting in that a snippet of tape seems to go in reverse.
I'm not sure who Felix Heiss, the conductor on this record , was in the real world or if the name was used for a number of conductors but he always seemed to give exciting performances unlike Alfred Schotz and his minions.


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## Art Rock

Relevant Wikipedia article.


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## joen_cph

The _Philharmonia Hungarica _was one true example of exiled musician orchestras (not that there are many), but obviously using Danzig for Gdansk would likely have been too provocative, since Polish 'Gdansk' was a general post-WWII-agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philharmonia_Hungarica


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## RobertJTh

Art Rock said:


> Relevant Wikipedia article.


That's really interesting material there. I vaguely heard about the Joyce Hatto scandal, but it's rather shocking reading how wide-spread it was. Compared to Barrington-Coupe, Alfred Scholtz was small fry...


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## NoCoPilot

In the days before Shazam it was harder to identify particular recordings.


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## AndorFoldes

Regarding the Alfred Scholz catalogue, here is a recording that I think is surprisingly good: Also Sprach Zarathustra with Anton Nanut and "Slovenian Symphony Orchestra". They play really well and really dig into the music. The recording is not that great, but warm and perfectly serviceable.

It's available as a playlist on YouTube:






Edit: I was mistaken. The orchestra is given as "Slovenian Symphony Orchestra". Anton Nanut was a real conductor who did conduct the RTV Slovenia Symphony Orchestra, which must the same thing. So this is probably not a misattributed recording. It's still good though!


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## NoCoPilot

AndorFoldes said:


> So this is probably not a misattributed recording. It's still good though!


Oddly enough, Shazam identifies it as by Ferdinand Leitner & Symphony Baden Baden.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Leitner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_German_Radio_Symphony_Orchestra


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## Merl

^ If it's an analogue recording it will more than often be of German / Austrian origin and from the 70s thus the Leitner / Baden Baden will be a stolen radio broadcast by probably Leitner and definitely the SWR (Sholz recordings had a habit of sticking to the country / region / city of original. If its Digital its more likely to be a Nanut / RTV Slovenia SO one from the early 80s. If it is a Nanut then it will usually be spirited and interesting. He was a sadly underrated conductor. His Beethoven and Mahler are well regarded for such qualities even if the orchestra are a little not up to task on occasion. His reputation on these cheapo releases earned him the nicknames 'the Budget Karajan' and 'Bargain-bin Karajan" amongst collectors. Beware though, some of the recordings attributed to Nanut are not his.


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## AndorFoldes

Factors pointing to Nanut:
- It's credited to him and a Slovenian orchestra on the CD release.
- It's an interesting and I would say spirited performance.

Factors pointing to Leitner:
- It sounds like an analogue recording to me, although I cannot think of any Nanut recordings I have heard that sound particularly "digital".
- Some online versions are attributed to him.


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## geralmar

Valuable resource for early 1950s Allegro/Royale and associated labels. It confirms the Backhaus/Emperor Concerto identification:

soundfountain.com


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## geralmar

david johnson said:


> I have wondered about Cyril Holloway and the Hampshire Symphony Orchestra that had a few lps on Dot.


They were pseudonyms (on the Design label) for Hans-Jurgen Walther (1919-2011) and an augmented Hamburg Chamber Orchestra. Walther appeared under numerous pseudonyms on various bargain label classical l.p.s in the 1950s and '60s. I have a Scheherazade on the cheap Spinorama label where he is "Hans Ledermann".


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## geralmar

1974


1958.*

Peerless Classics was an obscure U.S. bargain L.P. label found for a brief time only in department stores and "five and dimes". All titles used pseudonyms for conductors and orchestras and most L.P.s were straight Everest catalogue reissues. Nothing special about the several Peerless Classics in my collection-- except one was pressed badly off center.

*The Stadium Symphony Orchestra of New York was a pseudonym for The New York Philharmonic which at the time was under contract with Columbia Records.


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