# A Puzzle



## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

If Mozart's Piano Concertos are better than Haydn's Piano Concertos, why are Haydn's Piano Sonatas better than Mozart's Piano Sonatas?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Who says they are and on what basis?


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

EdwardBast said:


> Who says they are and on what basis?


That was my first thought. I like both Mozart's Piano Sonatas and Piano Concertos more than Haydn's.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

David Phillips said:


> If Mozart's Piano Concertos are better than Haydn's Piano Concertos, *why are Haydn's Piano Sonatas better than Mozart's Piano Sonatas?[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Because they aren't. Haydn never wrote piano sonatas to match Mozart's A minor, C minor, A Major and C major K330.
> 
> ...


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

David Phillips said:


> If Mozart's Piano Concertos are better than Haydn's Piano Concertos, why are Haydn's Piano Sonatas better than Mozart's Piano Sonatas?


Overall, I also prefer Haydn's sonatas to Mozart's, but that's just a personal preference (and a close one).


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

since it is a "puzzle" and not a real sentence about these composers, I assume the answer David Phillips is wishing is:

"Because Mozart wrote more piano concertos and Haydn wrote more piano sonatas"

Am I right?

best
Artur
P.S. I prefer Mozart in both forms


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

There are only a couple of Haydn sonatas I like. The rest seem in a journeyman class.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

David Phillips said:


> If Mozart's Piano Concertos are better than Haydn's Piano Concertos, why are Haydn's Piano Sonatas better than Mozart's Piano Sonatas?


Isn't it all a matter of taste?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Isn't it all a matter of taste?


One of Saint-Saens's pupils said the same thing to him. He replied, "Yes. Good taste and bad."


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

KenOC said:


> One of Saint-Saens's pupils said the same thing to him. He replied, "Yes. Good taste and bad."


My late grandad use to use this + adding..................... and your taste.
( Not directed towards you of course)


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Who says they are and on what basis?


I do use the conditional 'if', but it could be argued that although piano concertos form an important part of Mozart's work, his sonatas - once thought to be composed as teaching material - do not. Piano concertos are a very minor part of Haydn's output, whereas many of his piano sonatas are wonderfully imaginative, comic and dramatic masterpieces.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

David Phillips said:


> I do use the conditional 'if', but it could be argued that although piano concertos form an important part of Mozart's work, his sonatas - once thought to be composed as teaching material - do not.


Bach wrote a lot of great music considered teaching material.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Isn't it all a matter of taste?


Certainly not. Fact.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I'll happily ignore both the objective value of the OP, and my subjective opinion about it, and rather just play the game by the rules set in the OP. 

So, the reason for these things is clearly the fact that Mozart was a "dramatic" composer, relishing in the contrasts of the piano concerto, pitting the soloist against the orchestra and drawing musical power from this juxtaposition, whereas Haydn was more of an organic, syllogistic, train-of-thought type of composer, who could reach satisfying results from a single soloist exploring a musical idea to the fullest. Of course Haydn was a superb string quartet composer, too, and there, he would explore the interplay of those four instruments, but that's a radically different dynamic, much more conversational and egalitarian than the dramatic and necessarily conflicted dynamic between a soloist and a whole orchestra. Haydn wasn't inclined towards psychology or drama, and thus couldn't follow Mozart to the depths where he dived in his concerti.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

David Phillips said:


> I do use the conditional 'if', but it could be argued that although piano concertos form an important part of Mozart's work, his sonatas - once thought to be composed as teaching material - do not. Piano concertos are a very minor part of Haydn's output, whereas many of his piano sonatas are wonderfully imaginative, comic and dramatic masterpieces.


Conditional? You seem to indicate that your premises (Mozart's sonatas being not as good as Haydn's, but his concertos being better) are already matters of fact. _If_ used in a conditional way does not assume this, they are unknown.

This is not a puzzle, it is faulty logic. It's far easier to say: "I think Mozart's piano concertos are better than Haydn's, but Haydn's piano sonatas are better." Although this looks far less flashy I grant you.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

People pay more attention to large groups than small (sometimes, as more than 30 in a group tends to be overwhelming to classical listeners). I would say that Mozart's piano concertos and Haydn's piano sonatas are better in the aggregate, although Mozart did have the best piano sonata in the bunch with Piano Sonata No. 11 "Alla Turca."


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