# Your Mahler Frankencycle



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

So Knorf has a similar thread to this right now but rather than make a game limiting how many times a conductor, orchestra, etc can be repeated, I'm imposing no such limitations.

I'm asking this for myself as I'm trying to get into his symphonies for the first time. I'm also hoping to eventually make a series of posts that will be easily indexed by the term 'Frankencycle' for other new listeners.

So what are your favorite recording of each of Mahler's symphonies? What's your Frankencycle?

1. 
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. (optional)


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I would be totally satisfied with the one I did for Knorf's thread, so here's a list that I think would be good for newcomers OR those who require good sound quality. In other words, if a record label hired me to create a box set called "Introduction to Mahler," here's what I would include:

No. 1: Walter/Columbia
No. 2: Rattle/CBSO
No. 3: Bernstein/NY (1960s)
No. 4: Maazel/VPO
No. 5: Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie
No. 6: Bernstein/VPO
No. 7: Abbado/CSO
No. 8: Solti
DLVDE: Klemperer
No. 9: Barbirolli/BPO
No. 10: Dausgaard/Seattle

The only one I think is maybe questionable for newcomers is Bernstein's 6th which has amazing sound quality but some may find it too overheated and "overmilked."


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

No. 1: Kubelik/BRSO (Audite) or Barbirolli/Halle
No. 2: A toss-up: Klemperer/BRSO or Barbirolli/Stuttgart - both live
No. 3: Barbirolli/Halle
No. 4: Klemperer/Philharmonia - even though I don't think Schwarzkopf is quite right for it.
No. 5: Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie
No. 6: Barbirolli/New Philharminia - the live Proms on Testament *not* the studio recording
No. 7: Gielen/SWR
No. 8: Rattle/Nat'l Youth Orch of GB - you have to get it from YouTube. #2 would be Dudamel with the combined LAPO & Simon Bolivar orchs.
DLVDE: Klemperer
No. 9: Rattle/BPO by the tiniest margin over Barbirolli/BPO
No. 10: Probably Rattle/BPO but Harding/VPO has a lot going for it. *

* - Despite my previous enthusiasm for Dausgaard, I have since come to think that he pushes too hard.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

1 - Giulini/CSO, Tennstedt/CSO, Walter/ColSO
2 - Solti/CSO, Walter/NYPO
3 - Levine/CSO, Bernstein/NYPO II (DG), for the Finale -Martinon/CSO - live from 60s, incredible
4 - Reiner/CSO, Walter/NYPO from '45 surprisingly good sound!!
5- Solti/CSO '70 &'90, Abbado/CSO; Walter/NYPO historical
6 - Solti/CSO
7 - Abbado/CSO, Bernstein/NYPO I 60s
8 - Solti/CSO
9 - Giulini/CSO, Walter/ColSO, Boulez/CSO
10 - Ormsndy/PhilaOrch; Martinon/CSO


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

No. 1 - Leinsdorf/Boston
No. 2 - Stokowski/LSO
No. 3 - Gielen/SWR
No. 4 - Reiner/CSO
No. 5 - Gielen/SWR
No. 6 - Szell/Cleveland
No. 7 - Gielen/SWR
No. 8 - Ozawa/Boston
No. 9 - Giulini/CSO
No. 10 - Ormandy/Philadelphia


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

1 - Kubelick/BRSO (but honestly, not my favourite symphony so you might want to ask someone else; Rosbaud is also really good)
2 - Klemperer/NPO 1962 (the 1965 one is very similar but the sound quality isn't as good)
3 - Bernstein/NYP
4 - Rosbaud/SWR
5 - Rosbaud/CRSO
6 - Karajan/BPO
7 - Rosbaud/SWR
8 - Bertini/KRSO
DLVDE - Klemperer/NPO
9 - Karajan/BPO 1981
10 - Rattle/BPO (Kurt Sanderling is also fantastic; probably better in the middle movements but everyone listens to the 10th for the adagios anyways)

In my opinion, the best Mahler box sets are the Klemperer one and the Rosbaud one; all the other ones I know of contain some duds. Unfortunately, neither of those sets are complete.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Most consistent sets: 
Boulez (DG)
Chailly (Decca)

Individual Recommendations:
1: Chicago SO, Boulez (DG)
2: Saito Kinen Orchestra, Ozawa (Sony Classical)
3: Cincinnati SO, Lopez-Cobos (Telarc)
4: Vienna PO, Maazel (Sony Classical)
5: Vienna PO, Boulez (DG)
6: Atlanta SO, Levi (Telarc)
7: Boston SO, Ozawa (Philips)
8: Boston SO, Ozawa (Philips)
DLVDE: Vienna PO, Boulez (DG)
9: Concertgebouw, Chailly (Decca)


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

1) Muti/ Philadelphia
2) Solti/ C.S.O
3) Solti/ C.S.O
4) Karajan/ B.P
5) Karajan /B.P
6) Solto. C.S.O
7. Berstein / ( sony)
8) Solti ( C.S.O)
90 Bernstein ( DG)
10)Harding ( W.P)

Boxsets:
Solti
Bernstein.
Haitink


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

1. Abravanel, Utah Symphony
2. Abravanel, Utah Symphony Beverly Sills, soprano, Florence Koploff, mezzo, et al
3. Barbirolli, Halle Orchestra, et al (BBC recording)
4. Karajan, BPO Edith Mathis soprano on the super audio recording from Japan
5. Neumann, Gewandhaus Orchestra
6. Mackerra, BBC Philharmonic (issue by BBC Music Magazine)
7. Neumann, Gewandhaus Orchestra
8. Gielen, Frankfort Museum & Opera orchestras, et al
9. Boulez, Chicago Symphony
10. no thanks


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I have to cheat on this a little bit, because there are so many great Mahler versions that I like depending upon what mood I'm in that time. Be aware that the bulk of my record collection was built during the prior millennium, and reflects a bias based on the imprinting that I experienced during the 1980s when I relied on budget reissues from the 1950s-1970s.

1. Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra; Maurice Abravanel/Utah Symphony Orchestra
2. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
3. Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra (earlier Columbia recording) 
4. George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
5. Herbert Von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
6. George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Dimitri Mitropoulos/WDR, Cologne Radio Orchestra
7. Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra (newer, DG version)
8. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
9. Herbert Von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Bruno Walter/Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

_Das Lied Von Der Erde_: Bernstein/Israel Philharmonic Orch. w/Christa Ludwig & Rene Kollo; or Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic also w/Ludwig and Kollo.

The Mitroupoulos Mahler 6 and the Walter/Vienna Mahler 9 are both rough due to antiquated sound technology but are also very good. Mitropoulos and Walter were Mahler champions long before Leonard Bernstein made Mahler fashionable. Maurice Abravanel is also a great Mahler conductor who is somewhat restrained but never boring. Abravanel took Mahler from Vienna to the heart of the American mid-west, Mormon country, and the Utah Symphony Orchestra; and recorded his complete Mahler cycle around the same time as Bernstein took his first shot at it. Abravanel's Mahler is especially impressive as he takes the second-rate (or third-rate?) Utah Symphony Orchestra and holds his own against Bernstein, Mazaal, Karajan, Ozawa, Solti et. al. who've got the greatest orchestras in the world in tow.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

It’s hard thick just one version of any Mahler Symphony but here goes.
1) Horestein/LSO
2/Abbado/CSO
3) Haitink, either Amsterdam or CSO
4) Szell/Cleveland
5) Bernstein/NYP
6) Karajan/Berlin
7) Boulez/VPO
8) Solti/VPO
9) Bernstein/NYP
10) Dausgaard/Seattle


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm going to go off-script here, and suggest, not bests, not favorites, but some with qualities well-worth hearing (a few _might_ be both bests and favorites).

1. Mehta/NYP
2. Mehta/IPO (that's right, Israel)
3. Levine/Chicago
4. Abravanel/Utah
5. Kondrashin/USSR Symphony
6. First tossup: Mitropoulos/NYP = Barbirolli/Philharmonia (EMI)
7. Bernstein/NYP
8. Who cares? Oh, well...Boulez/Berlin
9. Dudamel/LA
10. Wigglesworth/BBC National Orchestra of Wales
DLVDE (it is a symphony, after all): Reiner/Chicago (some say repressed; I say minimalist!)


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm only gonna give a 'current listening' frankencycle from the one I put on the car USB last month, so this is it.

1. Lintu / Finnish RSO
2. Ozawa / Saito Kinen
3. Honeck / Pittsburgh
4. Previn / Pittsburgh 
5. Mackerras / RLPO
6. Chailly / RCO
7. Inbal / Tokyo Met
8. Gielen / Museumorchester Franfurt (live) 
9. Rattle / BPO
10. Wit / Polish Nat RSO

As I said this is just my current frankencycle in the car. I have a Bruckner and Schubert frankencycle on the car USB too. I change all these mixed cycles at least once every few months.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Merl said:


> I'm only gonna give a 'current listening' frankencycle from the one I put on the car USB last month, so this is it.
> 
> 1. Lintu / Finnish RSO
> 2. Ozawa / Saito Kinen
> ...


I don't know how you do it AND keep up with 50+ versions of a string quartet each week. :tiphat:


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I don't know how you do it AND keep up with 50+ versions of a string quartet each week. :tiphat:


That's the current cycle in the car but I haven't listened to it properly yet as I've not been in the car much for a few weeks. I'll do a, decent listen to them all over the upcoming month when I'm back to work and commuting again.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

So I found a set put out by DG: Mahler: The People’s Edition. This is the description:
"Over 5000 votes were cast in DG’s Mahler web poll, over 400 customers have submitted their suggestions for a complete Mahler Symphony cycle … and now we know who will appear in the People’s Edition"

1. Kubelick (DG)
2. Mehta (VPO)
3. Abbado (BPO)
4. Karajan (BPO)
5. Bernstein (VPO)
6. Bernstein (VPO)
7. Abbado (BPO)
8. Solti (CSO)
9. Giulini (CSO)
10. Chailly (BRSO)

So far I've listened to Lenny's 6 and HvK's 4. Both are excellent.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> So I found a set put out by DG: Mahler: The People's Edition. This is the description:
> "Over 5000 votes were cast in DG's Mahler web poll, over 400 customers have submitted their suggestions for a complete Mahler Symphony cycle … and now we know who will appear in the People's Edition"
> 
> 1. Kubelik (DG)
> ...


This is funny; 1,2,5 and 6 would probably be in my selection as well (of the rest I only know Giulini CSO 9)

1. Kubelik (DG), Walter/Columbia (or NY, but the better sound gives the edge to the stereo version)
2. Mehta (VPO), Klemperer/Philharmonia
3. Bernstein/NY (Sony), Gielen
4. Abranavel, Kegel
5. Bernstein (VPO), Morris
6. Bernstein (VPO), Kondrashin, maybe Solti (I should do a comparison/culling of the 6th but the piece is just too exhausting...)
7. Kondrashin/Moscow, Gielen/SWF
(8. hardly know the piece, so skip)
9. Maderna/BBC, Gielen
(10. Sanderling) (Still unsure about the completed 10th and is not a piece I know well.)


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

1. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
2. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
3. Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra (DG recording))
4. George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
5. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
6. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
7.George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
8. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
9. Leonard Bernstein/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
10. Lopez-Cobos Cincinnati SO


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Radames said:


> 1. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> 2. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> 3. Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra (DG recording))
> 4. George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
> ...


That's not much of a Frankenstein - seems to be Solti with a few extra brain cells and a heart ......


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> So I found a set put out by DG: Mahler: The People's Edition. This is the description:
> "Over 5000 votes were cast in DG's Mahler web poll, over 400 customers have submitted their suggestions for a complete Mahler Symphony cycle … and now we know who will appear in the People's Edition"
> 
> 1. Kubelick (DG)
> ...


I participated in that vote, and by and large, it's a fine set, but the 7th was an error: Abbado with Chicago would have been a better choice.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Radames said:


> 1. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> 2. George Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> 3. Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra (DG recording))
> 4. George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
> ...


What's wrong with Solti's 3rd and 4th???


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## LeoPiano (Nov 1, 2020)

Thank goodness this thread doesn't have any limitations on it (such as one conductor per symphony) because I don't have the biggest understanding of the different conductors for these works. This would be way more difficult for me if I couldn't use Bernstein more than once. So, here it goes: 

1. Kubelik (DG)
2. Bernstein (DG)
3. Bernstein (Sony)
4. Bernstein (Sony)
5. Karajan (DG)
6. Bernstein (DG)
7. Vanska (BIS). Odd choice, but this symphony is the best recording in Vanska's cycle so far, so that's probably why I rate it highly.
8. Solti (Decca)
9. Karajan (DG Live)
10. Dausgaard (Seattle)
DLvdE. Klemperer (EMI)


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

If I had to use each conductor only once I'd probably go with something like

1. Walter/Columbia
2. Klemperer/Philharmonia
3. Gielen
4. Abranavel
5. Morris
6. Bernstein (VPO)
7. Kondrashin
8. Nagano
9. Maderna/BBC
10. Sanderling
Das Lied von der Erde Kubelik/Kmentt/Baker (Audite)


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

1. *Abravanel*, Utah Symphony

2. same as above; *Mehta* also good

3. *Barbirolli* on BBC has best grasp of its architecture

4. *Karajan*, Berlin Phil, Edith Mathis preferably Japanese SHM-CD

5. *Levine*, Philadelphia Orchestra

6. *Charles Mackerras*, BBC Philharmonic

7.* Vaclav Neumann*, Leipzig Gewandhaus Orch

8. *Michael Gielen*, Frankfurt does a lot to minimize the mawkishness

9. *Horenstein* w/Kindertotenlieder or Pristine version

10. Forget it, it's not Mahler

*Integral set:* Neumann, Czech Philharmonic

Don't like Song of the Earth

Do like the song cycles:

*Kindertotenlieder* - Kirsten Flagstad w/Adrian Boult

*Wayfarer* songs - Alfred Poell w/Furtwangler

*Ruckert* lieder - Poell & Felbermeyer with *Das Knaben Wunderhorn*; Andreas Schmidt w/Lopez-Cobos a good alternative (also has other 2 cycles)


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> That's not much of a Frankenstein - seems to be Solti with a few extra brain cells and a heart ......


OK. It's a Soltistein.



wkasimer said:


> What's wrong with Solti's 3rd and 4th???


Solti's 4th is fine. I still haven't heard his 3rd! I bought a CD and now I can't find it. Lenny's is awesome though. I doubt it could be beaten.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

1. Solti LSO
2. Rattle CBSO et al
3. Sinopoli SWR SO Stuttgart 
4. Karajan BPO Mathis
5. Barshai Junge Deutsche Philharmonie
6. Currentzis MisicAeterna
7. Abbado Chicago
8. Boulez Staatskapelle Berlin et al
9. Barbirolli BPO
10. Sanderling


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Regardless of sound quality:

1. Walter/NBC 1939
2. Barbirolli Stuttgart 1970
3. Adler
4. Mengelberg 
5. Barbirolli
6. Barbirolli studio 
7. Klemperer
8. Horenstein
9. Barbirolli live 1960
DLVDE. Ferrier/Patzak/Walter live

Considering sound quality:

1. Barbirolli 
2. Klemperer live 1965
3. Horenstein
4. Horenstein
5. Barbirolli 
6. Barbirolli studio
7. Klemperer 
8. Bernstein DG 1975
9. Barbirolli studio 
DLVDE. Ferrier/Patzak/Walter studio

I don’t know 10 very well. I have the Wyn Morris version.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

So many great recordings to pick from. Anyway, here is my list considering both performance and sound quality:
1. Abbado BPO DG 1989
2. Mehta VPO Decca (honestly the performance is a bit too plain for me. but I cannot think of a better one at the moment).
3. Haitink RCO Philips
4. Karajan BPO DG
5. Bertini Koln EMI
6. Haitink BPO Philips
7. No Preference
8. Bertini Koln EMI
9. Giulini CSO DG
10. Chailly RCO Decca
Der Erde. Sinopoli Dresden DG

Generally speaking, I find Bertini's cycle with Koln RSO on EMI of excellent overall quality (intepretation + sound). Karajan's 4th, 5th, 6th, Erde and two 9th on DG are all outstanding performances.

One issue about the symphonies: if one looks into the full scores, Mahler actually put hundreds of notes and marks clearly on the paper indicating very specifically the way he wanted his music to be played. He did not left much room for the conductor to "customize" his works (compared with symphonies by Mozart or Beethoven for example). 

If a conductor follows closely with most of the composer's instructions (and no over-do), the performance is going to sound a bit routine to listeners. But for me, that would be my prefered way of performing his works.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Keep in mind that Mahler attended performances of his works by others (Fried, Mengelberg eg.) and only rarely commented on things he didn't like, such as Fried's too-fast tempos in the finale of the 2nd. And a lot of those markings are ambiguous and open to interpretation. He never used metronome marks but relied on Italian and German to indicate tempo. And what do you get? Tempos all over the place. The opening of the 6th goes from very slow (Barbirolli) to very brisk (Chailly). Recognized Mahler specialists like Bernstein regularly ignore many markings. Mahler did say that if something doesn't sound right, not only do you have the right to change it, but the responsibility to do so. I think this is why I don't care for the Gielen recordings so much; he follows the details closer than most and somehow it becomes sterile. Same with Masur.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Surprisingly, not much love for Tennstedt so far. Was he too "middle of the road" with Mahler? I'd consider his M1 or M5 (studio one) with LPO.

With Bernstein I'd surely pick M7, he was the one who basically rediscovered the piece for wider audiences. His VPO video available on DVD is a knockout.

Solti is unrivaled in M8, although that YouTube video with Rattle conducting GB Youth Orchestra is amazingly fresh, a shame they haven't released it commercially.

Abbado/Lucerne M9 has that strange quality as if maestro was saying farewell to his own life. 

M10 is such a weird beast but Rattle/BPO is the most solid attempt at taming it, hands down.

With most other symphonies there are many variables so it depends. So it's going to be slightly different Frankencycle on most any given day.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

2 - Kubelick, 4-Bernstein (the second w/the boy soprano) 5-Barbarolli, 7- Boulez, the rest Gielen


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> 7. No Preference


Make a choice bud! I suggest Solti.


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