# Here's How Piano Music Evolved Over 200 Years!



## FredVinerPiano (Jun 3, 2021)

Hey everyone, thought this might be of interest. From Bach to Stravinsky, see how piano music evolved over 200 years of musical history...in C-major!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

FredVinerPiano said:


> Hey everyone, thought this might be of interest. From Bach to Stravinsky, see how piano music evolved over 200 years of musical history...in C-major!


For me the more interesting question is how piano music has evolved over the last 50 years.


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## FredVinerPiano (Jun 3, 2021)

Mandryka said:


> For me the more interesting question is how piano music has evolved over the last 50 years.


You mean because of the advent of extended techniques? Are there are pieces from the last 50 years in particular that you would single out?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Maybe have a listen to some Salvatore Sciarrino, Galina Ustvolskaya and Mark Taylor.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

A lot of good piano music since the '20s - even if it is diatonic and "tonal," like John Adams' _China Gates_ - eschews major-minor functional tonality. To some, your C major video may inadvertently make it seem like piano music "stopped evolving" in 1921 with Stravinsky's "Danse russe."


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## FredVinerPiano (Jun 3, 2021)

Portamento said:


> A lot of good piano music since the '20s - even if it is diatonic and "tonal," like John Adams' _China Gates_ - eschews major-minor functional tonality. To some, your C major video may inadvertently make it seem like piano music "stopped evolving" in 1921 with Stravinsky's "Danse russe."


I decided rather arbitrarily to stop at Stravinsky, mainly because I was getting so tired of the project by then and just wanted it done! Hopefully the video would encourage someone to dive deeper and explore more repertoire (especially the lesser-known stuff), rather than to take it as any sort of authority. Just a bit of fluff!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's something in C major






and apparently this is all white notes


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> and apparently this is all white notes


Not even close.

C# at 0:05 (maybe more likely D-flat)
A# at 0:14 followed directly by F#
G# at 0:22 followed by F#

(Etc etc)

Upon first listening, I count around 21 in total.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

But the point remains: using a key signature is a biased filter to capture the evolution of piano music, even up to Stravinsky's time (think Scriabin or Debussy, for instance).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Not even close.
> 
> C# at 0:05 (maybe more likely D-flat)
> A# at 0:14 followed directly by F#
> ...


Sorry, my bad, I put the wrong link in somehow - this


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Also this






And this


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Sorry, my bad, I put the wrong link in somehow - this


Well this one's literally just C haha. I struggle to see anything of interest in this piece, sorry to say. I like the two you shared below it, though.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Well this one's literally just C haha. I struggle to see anything of interest in this piece, sorry to say. I like the two you shared below it, though.


Yes Jatekok is quite challenging for me too, the whole thing, not just that piece, and I can see the attraction in the Auerbach. Not sure what to say about the Skempton, I have to be in a certain mood for his music, and I'm not often in that mood.


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## FredVinerPiano (Jun 3, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> But the point remains: using a key signature is a biased filter to capture the evolution of piano music, even up to Stravinsky's time (think Scriabin or Debussy, for instance).


Biased? Because I'm excluding all the other keys...?


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## Sequentia (Nov 23, 2011)

Here's a compilation that provides a similar kind of overview (though with a focus on short works):


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

FredVinerPiano said:


> Biased? Because I'm excluding all the other keys...?


Because you're excluding music which isn't tonal? There's a lot of modal piano music like this


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

FredVinerPiano said:


> Biased? Because I'm excluding all the other keys...?


Biased because you're excluding music that is not written in any key (which Mandryka already said...).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Biased because you're excluding music that is not written in any key (which Mandryka already said...).


also because the OP is excluding music that is written for the prepared piano


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## Esterhazy (Oct 4, 2014)

It basically has evolved from tonal harmony to abstract sounds. A few hundred years is long enough for it to evolve plentiful and exhaust creativity.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

That was marvelous, thanks. I enjoyed hearing all that music put together. It must have taken you a lot of time and thought to figure out which pieces and parts to play and where precisely to connect them. And, it all worked!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Esterhazy said:


> It basically has evolved from tonal harmony to abstract sounds. A few hundred years is long enough for it to evolve plentiful and exhaust creativity.


Is this tonal harmony or abstract sounds?






Think of Olivier Messiaen's Catalogue D'Oiseaux. Certainly not abstract sounds and, while I've never really thought about it, they don't sound to me like there's a home key.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Esterhazy said:


> It basically has evolved from tonal harmony to abstract sounds. A few hundred years is long enough for it to evolve plentiful and exhaust creativity.


Tonal harmony is as abstract as anything else.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Portamento said:


> Tonal harmony is as abstract as anything else.


Probably _more_ abstract than anything else, to be honest.


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## Esterhazy (Oct 4, 2014)

Portamento said:


> Tonal harmony is as abstract as anything else.


Of course so there is no differentiation.


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