# Songs of Introduction to Classical Music for rock-prog lovers



## duroon (Feb 1, 2019)

I would like to introduce classical music to listeners and lovers of the Rock and Progressive genre.
I mean advanced listeners, accustomed to complex pieces, counterpoints, etc.
for those who listen to Rock Progressive and near (Yes, Gentle Giant, Zappa, etc.) which *Suites, Concerts and Symphonies* can they like?
THANX


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Pictures at an Exhibition, maybe, for ELP fans? Worked for me when I was younger and listened to that kind of music.


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## duroon (Feb 1, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> Pictures at an Exhibition,.


ELP was the really easy answer ... 
anyway thanks
I would like to know other titles


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## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

Maybe an easy way in would be to introduce them to Frank Zappa's favorites. I was introduced to Varese via a Zappa interview, and it made a huge impression - never heard anything like it (I was 14 or 15 at the time). Pieces I would recommend to a prog rock enthusiast to get started on Varese is "Arcana", "Ameriques", "Ionisation" and "Hyperprism". Frank Zappa even did a concert with much of Varese's music.






In my experience, prog rock enthusiasts are quite open minded musically, and I've found that "mind blowing" classical music often works best. So how about Crumb's "Black Angels", Reich's "WTC 911" or Messiaen's "Apparition de l'eglise éternelle" or "Quartet to the end of time"? I believe that Stravinsky's "Rite of spring" will work wonders as well, but I suspect they know it from before. If you don't want (or don't like) modern classical just say so, and we can find some more suitable pieces.

Anyway, just introduce them to the classical music _you_ like and be passionate about it, and I promise you it will work every time.


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## Axter (Jan 15, 2020)

I would say most Wagner Overtures would be a good start.
“The Ride of the Valkyries” by Wagner.
And Beethoven’s 5th and 3rd “Eroica”...


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

duroon said:


> I would like to introduce classical music to listeners and lovers of the Rock and Progressive genre.
> I mean advanced listeners, accustomed to complex pieces, counterpoints, etc.
> for those who listen to Rock Progressive and near (Yes, Gentle Giant, Zappa, etc.) which *Suites, Concerts and Symphonies* can they like?
> THANX


I am a huge fan of both types of music. I listen to both in almost equal percentages.

Probably something like: 35% prog, 35% classical, and about 30% jazz.

But it really depends on which bands and many subgenres of prog you are referring to. Prog is far from being one thing, nor is it really possible to point at specific composers and pieces for all prog listeners.

For example, King Crimson has always had Bartok used as a classical jumping off point. While I am not sure I hear any direct comparisons, I can kind of understand what people are talking about. Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta, or his piano concertos, would be likely places to start.

But if you listen to the 80's King Crimson trilogy, you will hear some minimalism (several steps removed) mixed in. Steve Reich, for example.

YES used to have a recording of various Stravinsky pieces playing for a few minutes before they hit the stage. So maybe, The Firebird Suite might be a good start. And the Firebird has a soring, uplifting finale, which is kind of like much of YES's music.

Jon Anderson was big into Sibelius, Stravinsky, Delius. Peter Banks was a huge Benjamin Britten fan. Bill Bruford was a huge fan of, Albinoni, Bartok and Mahler. Wakeman was a huge Prokofiev. Patrick Moraz took some classes with composer Nadia Boulanger, and I believe was a fan of Schoenberg.

Gentle Giant is a tougher nut to crack, since they have those early music influences, but also toss in a whole lot of 20th century atonality.

ELP did not try to hide their influences. Mostly Bartok (The Barbarian is a reinterpretation of Bartok's "Allegro Barbaro") , Ginastera, Mussorgsky. This orchestrated version of Tarkus, sounds quit a bit like Bartok:






The great (and consistently underappreciated, IMO), Italian prog bands took obvious influences from Italian composers. Pinning down which ones, are a bit difficult for me. But, Le Orme seemed to be influenced by the late Romantic period, same with PFM. Banco seemed a bit more influenced by the early 20th century, like Bartok. Same with Il Balletto di Bronzo; pretty dark stuff on their brilliant album, YS.

Then there is the entire subgenre of avant-prog, past and present. Band like: Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Thinking Plague, Höyry-Kone, Aranis, Ahvak, Far Corner, etc, etc, etc. Most of the bands in this subgenre took obvious influences from composers of the second half of the 20th century.

So, if any of the listeners you are referring to like this adventurous (and more 'difficult') subgenre, you might want have them listen to pieces by: Elliott Carter, Luciano Berio, George Perle, Harrison Birtwistle, Charles Wuorinen, Stefen Wolpe, Joan Tower, Gyorgi Ligeti, Penderecki, etc.

For Zappa, it would be obvious to refer to most of the same composers as for avant-prog. All one has to do is listen to Zappa's orchestral music to see why.

This may not be any help, but there you go.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Why not introduce them to the most popular names of CM first: J.S. Bach, Mozart and Beethoven? I love prog (King Crimson and Pink Floyd being my favorite rock bands) and also classical, and started my exploration of this latter genre via these three composers some 13 years ago. Here, these are legendary masterpieces of classical music in excellent performances, show them these:

*Beethoven - Symphony No. 3 in E♭ major "Eroica", Op. 55:*





*Beethoven - Symphony No. 5 in C minor, Op. 67:*





*Beethoven - Symphony No. 6 in F major "Pastoral", Op. 68*





*Mozart/Süssmayr - Requiem in D minor, K. 626:*





*J.S. Bach - The Well Tempered Clavier (Book I), BWV 846-869:*


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## duroon (Feb 1, 2019)

I did not think I would receive all these fantastic answers !!
All of you have written very good things.
I would like to select Themes that represent a bit of all classical music: from Bach to Varese
I would like to choose 10 elements
Famous things and less famous things but close to Prog-Rock lovers
The "beauty" and "importance" of the work is one thing to consider.
Varese, for example, we are in the border line.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

duroon said:


> I would like to introduce classical music to listeners and lovers of the Rock and Progressive genre.
> I mean advanced listeners, accustomed to complex pieces, counterpoints, etc.
> for those who listen to Rock Progressive and near (Yes, Gentle Giant, Zappa, etc.) which *Suites, Concerts and Symphonies* can they like?
> THANX


The major, best-known works of Respighi come to mind: _Fountains, Pines, Roman Festivals, Church Windows, Trittico Botticelliano, Brazillian Impressions...._


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

There are some good recommendations above. A couple of mine:

John Foulds - Three mantras





(this is the first one)

And the classic
Gustav Holst - The planets






both for the same reason: powerful, catchy and enthralling music. Holst (and Mars in particular) has been a big influence on rock music (prog and metal too) and also on music for the cinema, so it's music that is easy to understand for someone into prog rock... and movies.


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## duroon (Feb 1, 2019)

I would like to introduce Prog lovers to Classical music. Above all the important authors, an approach towards the "fundamentals" (Beethoven, Mozart etc) not towards the extreme boundaries that seem Prog


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Don't forget Shostakovich! Maybe some symphonies and string quartets! Dvorak and Grieg too! Also try Iberia by Albeniz.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

duroon said:


> I would like to introduce Prog lovers to Classical music. Above all the important authors, an approach towards the "fundamentals" (Beethoven, Mozart etc) not towards the extreme boundaries that seem Prog


Last year there was a thread here ranking the classical composers according to how much people in this forum liked their music. More than fifty members participated. The entire list (with 100 names) can be seem *here*. It may give you an idea of what people here like, and of what to show to your friends if you want the "fundamentals" first.

Here is it's top ten in terms of points/mentions:

01. Beethoven (29,61 points/mentions);
02. Bach (29,31 points/mentions);
03. Mozart (29,30 points/mentions);
04. Brahms (27,23 points/mentions);
05. Mahler (26,35 points/mentions);
06. Wagner (25,46 points/mentions);
07. Schubert (25,43 points/mentions);
08. Tchaikovsky (23,74 points/mentions);
09. Sibelius and Schumann (23,28 points/mentions);
10. Haydn (23,09 points/mentions).


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Allerius said:


> Why not introduce them to the most popular names of CM first: J.S. Bach, Mozart and Beethoven? I love prog (King Crimson and Pink Floyd being my favorite rock bands) and also classical, and started my exploration of this latter genre via these three composers some 13 years ago. Here, these are legendary masterpieces of classical music in excellent performances, show them these:


Speaking from the point of view of someone who came to classical music via prog, this did not work for me.

The problem as I see it, is so much prog is not influenced by the composers you mention, so the overall feel might be too far from what they are used to.

For me, I felt no musical connection going from prog to Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven, and thus my latent love for classical eluded me. Until I heard Bartok and Stravinsky. That was when it clicked for me. Most prog has much more connection to these composers than Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Let me add, that I think you might want to join (if you haven't already) the progressive music forums at Progressive Ears, and pose the same question.

There, you will find many more people that listen to prog, as well as classical, whereas here, it mostly classical listeners.

https://www.progressiveears.org/


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Simon Moon said:


> Speaking from the point of view of someone who came to classical music via prog, this did not work for me.
> 
> The problem as I see it, is so much prog is not influenced by the composers you mention, so the overall feel might be too far from what they are used to.
> 
> For me, I felt no musical connection going from prog to Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven, and thus my latent love for classical eluded me. Until I heard Bartok and Stravinsky. That was when it clicked for me. Most prog has much more connection to these composers than Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


I agree mostly with this. I think that, from my experience of Prog, that the best-known and listened-to composers of the first half of the 20th century will be the most easily assimilated by Prog-oriented newcomers to CM. Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms--not so much.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Simon Moon said:


> Speaking from the point of view of someone who came to classical music via prog, this did not work for me.
> 
> The problem as I see it, is so much prog is not influenced by the composers you mention, so the overall feel might be too far from what they are used to.
> 
> For me, I felt no musical connection going from prog to Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven, and thus my latent love for classical eluded me. Until I heard Bartok and Stravinsky. That was when it clicked for me. Most prog has much more connection to these composers than Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


Aren't you perhaps generalizing a personal experience with CM? I took a look at some polls of classical composers at a prog rock website (progarchives.com) and in both polls I found (this and this) the "big three" received a considerable amount of votes (about 25%). It's true that there are many votes for "others" in both polls, but according to this other poll about 60% of the prog rock voters who participated prefer classical music outside of the 20th and 21st centuries (the Romantic era received almost the same number of votes of the 20th century in that poll). If you look at this discussion you will find many prog rock fans saying that they enjoy Bartók and Stravinsky yes but also composers from previous eras, including Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.

It's true that not so many people in that community participated of these polls/discussions though.

-----------------------

Well, here are a few suggestions of 20th century classical music "essentials" anyway:

*Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring:*





*Bartók - Violin Concerto No. 2:*





*Shostakovich - Symphony No. 5:*





*Mahler - Symphony No. 2:*





*Messiaen - Turangalîla Symphonie:*


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## musichal (Oct 17, 2020)

For prog-rock lovers, I believe the best advice for CM entry is to listen to symphonies and concertos by the more popular composers (Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Haydn, Vivaldi, et al). For me, progressive rock at its best feels like a journey, with various twists, turns and variations in the soundscape - just the sort of thing these master composers perfected long ago.

I don't mean only symphonies and concertos accomplish this, just that they are a good start, imo.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

prog rock lovers like complex and modern stuff, so show them some Bach, Bartok, Messiaen, Varese, Ligeti, maybe Mozart.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Before I got into classical I only listened to rock, prog rock and metal. One of the first compositions I ever heard, and the very first piece that blew my mind was Prokofiev PC3. His tonal palate was just outside enough to shed any impression of mid classical era Mozartian cuteness and not so far outside that it sounded like orchestrated animals mating on the Serengeti avant garde. 

I first heard it in the movie The Competition and went out and bought the first copy I found: Graffman/Szell and it has been one of my desert island albums alongside Miles Davis Kind of Blue ever since, over 30 years now.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

duroon said:


> I would like to introduce classical music to listeners and lovers of the Rock and Progressive genre.
> I mean advanced listeners, accustomed to complex pieces, counterpoints, etc.
> for those who listen to Rock Progressive and near (Yes, Gentle Giant, Zappa, etc.) which *Suites, Concerts and Symphonies* can they like?
> THANX


There is no answer although the best way to not be immediately rebuffed is to introduce crossover music. The Piano Guys come to mind. Explain how Pictures at an Exhibition is classical and is really crossover. (although I can no longer listen to this by ELP it now sounds so hollow compared to a good orchestra) 
Pull them in with familiar sounds... Bernstein and Gershwin. 
Graduate to Philip Glass and other minimalists which can sound more like popular music outgrowths with the right tracks. The best music to not shock them are movie soundtracks by Max Richter and Philip Glass or the lesser Williams.

Basically anything that the purists here will not listen too is the way to go. If you go right to Bach and Handel you'll lose them.


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## duroon (Feb 1, 2019)

Allerius said:


> A took a look at some polls of classical composers at a prog rock website


really interesting response and pools !!
I would like to write 10 works.
I think of something of: Bach, Strawinsky, Bartok, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Dvorak,
I would also like to include Wagner (prelude) Mahler and Haydn.
But now it's time to establish the individual works,


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I read somewhere that Jimi Hendrix liked Richard Strauss and Mahler. "Those cats were hot!"


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

duroon said:


> I would like to introduce Prog lovers to Classical music. Above all the important authors, an approach towards the "fundamentals" (Beethoven, Mozart etc) not towards the extreme boundaries that seem Prog


than why you specified "for prog rock lovers"?


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Allerius said:


> Aren't you perhaps generalizing a personal experience with CM? I took a look at some polls of classical composers at a prog rock website (progarchives.com) and in both polls I found (this and this) the "big three" received a considerable amount of votes (about 25%). It's true that there are many votes for "others" in both polls, but according to this other poll about 60% of the prog rock voters who participated prefer classical music outside of the 20th and 21st centuries (the Romantic era received almost the same number of votes of the 20th century in that poll). If you look at this discussion you will find many prog rock fans saying that they enjoy Bartók and Stravinsky yes but also composers from previous eras, including Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.
> 
> It's true that not so many people in that community participated of these polls/discussions though.


You make some good points, but I was referring to CM that would be a good intro for people already listening to music that has some of the same aspects of classical that they are already hearing in prog, as a transition to CM. Where they end up in classical music, and enjoy in the long run, is another story.

The polls refer to CM they enjoy, not the music that was their into to CM.

And let me include this 41 page thread from Progressive Ears dedicated to classical music, and just a random sampling seems to point to noticeably more 20th century pieces being recommended, than previous eras. But, I may be guilty of confirmation bias...

https://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/11439-Classical-music


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Simon Moon said:


> You make some good points, but I was referring to CM that would be a good intro for people already listening to music that has some of the same aspects of classical that they are already hearing in prog, as a transition to CM. Where they end up in classical music, and enjoy in the long run, is another story.
> 
> The polls refer to CM they enjoy, not the music that was their into to CM.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you're right. I think that both approaches - having a starting point in classical from the most popular composers vs from the 20th century composers - are equally valid, and I suggest the OP to try pieces based on both perspectives to see what works better for him and his friends.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

How about Khatchaturian's 3rd symphony (ideally the Stokowski recording)? If only the organ was a Hammond. 

Other than that Bach (Concerto for 4 harpsichords - Pinnock) or loads of Bartok (SQ 3 or 4, Miraculous Mandarin, Piano concertos 1 or 2, etc)


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

duroon said:


> really interesting response and pools !!
> I would like to write 10 works.
> I think of something of: Bach, Strawinsky, Bartok, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Dvorak,
> I would also like to include Wagner (prelude) Mahler and Haydn.
> But now it's time to establish the individual works,


you'll garner interest from no one going about it like this... just sayin' peace and best of luck


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