# Conductors



## Barnaby (Jan 10, 2015)

Hello everyone. This is my first post. 

I've enjoyed listening to various types of music for many years. I've played piano to grade 5 and messed about in rock and blues bands over the years but I know little about technical aspects of music and the practicalities in the production of classical music in particular. I hope you will be gentle with my inexperience. 

I'd like to know about tone rather than the other aspects of interpretation. My question is born out of ignorance really. I haven't attended many concerts and mainly listen at home. Although I can easily hear differences in tone between two recordings of the same piece of music I'm not sure how much of this is due to the acoustics of the venue and the recording engineering, and how much the conductor's influence on the orchestra.

I've been wondering for a while how far conductors can really get different tones from orchestras. I've noticed some conductors like Karajan are accredited with warm, lush sounds while others have colder sounds. I can understand how the interpretation of dynamics phrasing, and other nuances of playing make a difference but I'm not sure how the conductor makes the tone different. Is this simply a matter of preferring, for example, that the strings be bowed in a different way and instructing the players accordingly? Does he really stop someone and say, " No, bow it further up the body" or something to make the tone warmer?

Anyway thanks for reading and I'd be interested in how this all works

Barnaby


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I can't answer your questions but I just finished reading the part of Gunther Schuller's book where he laments the lack of bowing technique prevalent among violists today, the apparent lack of concern about this by many conductors, and how this affects the music. I would recommend this book to anyone who is interested in what conducting is about. A very fascinating book.


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## Barnaby (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi.Thanks for the link. The book looks a bit specialist for me. I'm really just asking the question out of idle curiosity


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sure, just thought I would mention it. Yes the book is too technical in many places but I am getting a lot out of it anyway. Hopefully some knowledgable TC member can elucidate on this for you in a summary manner that us non-tech folks can understand.


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## Barnaby (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks Florestan. I might dip my toe in there one of these days


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The sound of an orchestra is based on many different factors ; the makes of instruments the orchestra uses , the acoustics of the different concert hals , and on recordings, the engineering , for example .
An orchestra will sound much more lush and resonant in a concert hall with rich, resonant
acoustics than one with dry ,restricted acoustic . For example, the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, 
the Musikverein in Vienna, and Boston's symphony hall for the resonant halls, or Avery Fisher 
in Lincoln Center, symphony hall in Chicago, for the ones .
Certain conductors, such as Ormandy and Stokowski, have aimed at plushness and smoothness at all costs , while Roscanini and Szell preferred a drier ,more austere sound .
The woodwind and brass sections in different orchestras have markedly different timbres , too . There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that all orchestras sound alike now. This is an urban legend .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Apparently in the 50s van Kampen was rehearsing a passage then Katajan took over conducting. Immediately the orchestra sounded completely different. I once asked the conductor Hans Vonk why different conductors produced different sounds from an orchestra and he said it was something that just happened without anyone really knowing why.


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## Barnaby (Jan 10, 2015)

Interesting. I can certainly understand about the acoustics the engineering and the instruments. I was curious because people talk about certain conductors producing e.g. a lush sound and I was really curious to know how they pursued it. I can see they would pick concert halls and engineers for recordings but obviously touring would restrict their capacity to do that. I don't imagine they would be able to spend huge sums on different instruments for different sounds. 

I know I get different sounds from my guitars depending on where and how I play the strings and I wondered if conductors got players to play in certain ways to produce sounds or whether they increased the volume of lower register instruments etc.

I'm intrigued by the comments you report from Hans Vonk David. Maybe it happens by chance


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Barnaby, "lushness" as it defines HvK's music, shouldn't be taken too seriously. No, wait...amend that to, shouldn't be taken seriously at all. You can basically credit that myth to two sorts. HvK's detractors and listeners with tin ears. Interesting to note, Ormandy and the Philadelphians received the same flak. For those who truly aspire to lushness, Montovani Orchestra, and Jackie Gleason Orchestra are good places to start. Though they won't here much R. Strauss or Brahms.:tiphat:


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I wonder this myself - maybe it's just something to do with the conductor's interpretation of the music?
For example, one conductor might prefer a particular passage to be played strictly in time, while another might add a but or rubato.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I wonder this myself - maybe it's just something to do with the conductor's interpretation of the music?
> For example, one conductor might prefer a particular passage to be played strictly in time, while another might add a but or rubato.


Over the years, I've noticed guest conductors with second and third tier orchestras generally do better than the "home pro". Music Directors have a tendency to micro manage. The visitors let them play, with only a few adjustments.


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## Barnaby (Jan 10, 2015)

Would I be right in getting the impression that there isn't any deliberate technique a conductor can employ to alter the tone then? Obviously the tempo, dynamics etc are all up for grabs.

I wasn't meaning to use "lush" as a criticism mind you 

As I say I'm at a disadvantage because I haven't attended very many classical concerts so my experience is filtered through so many variables it is difficult to judge different sounding orchestras. I must get out more


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

As a musician myself, I have witnessed how different conductors get different sounds from groups. A lot is through altering the balance, such as "more clarinet and horn here, less flute and trumpet" or even by just expressing things like "I'd like a darker sound here" or "faster, more intense vibrato here" - there are so many variables to play with - even the choice of instruments for the cymbal player can impact the sound of the orchestra. 

Then there is the selection of players from auditions - certain conductors are looking for a particular sound and can thus shape the direction of the orchestra from that standpoint.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Sir Thomas Beecham on why he needed fewer rehearsals than some conductors


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