# Rank the 4 symphonies by Roberto Gerhard in order of preference



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Realizing that some TC members disapprove of listings (which don't truly _Talk_ about _Classical_ music), perhaps some increased user involvement could be gained by the ranking of these 4 musical works.

Voting polls are also not very much liked by some members, typically due to incomprehensive scope of a subject limited to 15 selections. Maybe a focus on one composer's symphonies could lend itself to more discussion about the composer's overall musical styles and the individual merits and/or faults of these 4 pieces.

Symphony #1





Symphony #2





Symphony #3





Symphony #4





My personal rankings of these are:

1. Symphony #4 "New York" (1967)
2. Symphony #1 (1953)
3. Symphony #3 (1960)
4. Symphony #2 (1959)

The music of Roberto Gerhard, in my opinion, simply had gotten more finely detailed as he aged.
Most of his works which I find most satisfying hail from the 1960s: _The Plague_, _Concerto for Orchestra_, _Epithalamion_ & _Symphony #4_.
The 1950s are also important in Gerhard's development from a composer of Iberian subjects into one of the U.K.'s leading serialists. Milestone '50s pieces include the _Concerto for Piano & Strings_, _Symphony #1_ & _Concerto for Harpsichord, Strings & Percussion_.

If you're already familiar with these Gerhard symphonies - then fire away and discuss. 

If you've never heard one or more of these symphonies, then within this thread lies the opportunity to sample the music and offer first impressions.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I've listened to all 4 symphonies, but it was several years ago when I had a Gerhard spell, remember that I liked the 4th very much, but I don't remember the other three clearly enough to rank them... I'll have to do the drill and pick them out of the record shelf and relisten! .. Remember I liked his string quartets tremendously!

Have to put them on my have to listen to again projects list at once! 

/ptr


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2013)

Well, having heard all four of his symphonies (including both versions of number two), the only thing I can say for sure in the area of ranking is that I prefer the original version of number two.

Otherwise....

I have a special fondness for the third. It was my first Gerhard. And I pity the CD era listeners. None of the CD performances of this piece come up to the level of Prausnitz's performance on LP. Bamert's is the closest.

And Bamert's fourth is better than the old Dorati, which first came out on LP itself.

If you have only the Bamert for all four, you still have something very nice indeed.

Gerhard's an outrageously fine composer, I think. It's a mystery to me how he has flown and continues to fly underneath the radar. (Same with Maderna. What gives with that?) I used to say, even, that Gerhard was the most major twentieth century composer to be almost completely unknown.

While I eschew language like "major," I'd probably say Luc Ferrari, now, though there are lots of fine people who have never achieved the recognition that matches their talent.

Anyway. Gerhard. Fine stuff. I have everything I have ever been able to find. It's not enough. I want more.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

New York is my favorite, of course.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*2*, 1, 3, 4, and I only know them through the Bamert recordings. No. 2 (cw Concerto for Orchestra) leads the way, with some interest in No. 1, and not much for Nos. 3 and 4.

Overall, as with ptr, the String Quartets hold the most attraction. Then the Cello Sonata and Gemini (violin and piano). The Metier recs.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

So, I've pulled all my Roberto Gerhard Orchestral CD's from the shelf, I have the following Symphony recordings:

1; Bamert/Chandos
2; Bamert/Chandos (Vers 1) and Perez/Auvidis (Metamorphoses)
3; Bamert/Chandos
4; Davis/Lyrita and Perez/Auvidis

I will listen in numbered order and get back when I'm done...

/ptr


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

What a nice gesture of Prodromides! As I am strapped for cash at the moment, and have been doing digital transfers of my old 4-ch cassette home recordings into LOGIC, I decided to go ahead and record these symphonies onto CD, using the links thoughtfully provided by Prodromides; that way I can listen to them on the DENON in the big room. I must say, the quality is very decent, and will suffice until I am able to obtain the actual fetish-objects on CHANDOS.
My first imprintation yielded these results:

1. Symphony #4 "New York" (1967)
2. Symphony #3 (1960)
3. Symphony #1 (1953)
4. Symphony #2 (1959)

The "New York" No. 4 seems the most colorful, in terms of sheer beauty of sound. It seems that Gerhard, as he progressed, seemed to treat sound as "sound itself," a joyful use of the materials themselves. This quality is most apparent if one compares #1 to #4. 

The first has its own charms, though, in its use of melodic phrasing, themes, and the suspenseful atmosphere, which remotely reminds me of Dallapiccola. 

I like #3 for its use of taped interpolations of electronic sound. It also shares with #4 the apparent desire to treat "sound as sound" without attempts at "representational" meanings most associated with music; this is "abstract" territory, celebrating the sheer color and richness of the orchestra. What does "red" mean? I don't know, but it sure is purty.

No. 2 comes in last, but I do not discount it: already, it shows a development in the use of the language from #1, in its more straightforward, craftsmanlike use of the 12-tone system. Harmonic meanings abound, and I remember some chords played by horns. It seems more logical and confident than #1, but does not have the "charm" of it.

All in all, this has been a Gerhard Thursday I will remember for eternity.

(I saw Ptr's reproduction of the Chandos cover, so I think I'll hunt down the Piano Concerto and fill in the remainder of my disc space for #3 & #4.)


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

The result of of the Swedish jury is in:

It was really fun to re-listen to Gerhard's Symphonies! I was reinforced in my belief that Gerhard was a very fine composer yjay I shall listen to more often.. Let's say that this is a preliminary judging, my reaction to these symphonies today even if I can say that I remember that my reaction was about the same the previous listening session.

Ranking:

No 4
No 3
No 1 / No 2 Second Version
No 2

On the whole (without having heard Bamert's fourth) I think that the Chandos cycle is smashing, Davis' fourth was the first Gerhard symphony I ever heard (way back on an Argo LP) and as such it was my benchmark, until I've heard Bamert's fourth it will stay such. Unfortunately the two I have with Perez's don't really cut it, mostly because of the second rate orchestra..

I would have love to write something longer, but writing on the iPad is just to exhausting! 

/ptr


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

*bumped*

... for the current heat wave of ranking topics.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry Prod, haven't changed my mind! 

/ptr


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

Me either.

Ranking is rank.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

I listen to them and then I tell you


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