# Round 3: Ah Perfido. Farrell and Brewer



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Ah! Perfido, Op. 65 · Eileen Farrell · Ludwig van Beethoven · Max Rudolf · Columbia Symphony Orchestra Puccini Arias and Others in the Great Tradition (Great Performances) ℗ 1959 Sony Music Entertainment




Ah! Perfido, Op. 65: Ah, perfido!, Op. 65 · Christine Brewer · Christine Brewer · Christine Brewer · Philharmonia Orchestra · Philharmonia Orchestra · Philharmonia Orchestra · David Parry · David Parry · David Parry


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I can't decide. The are both first rate. Brewer is very understandable in English. All of her recordings are English.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Oh god, not again. This time Beethoven in English. We went through a small fracas the other day over Wagner in Italian (which was my fault for introducing it). LvB in English alone disqualifies Brewer. I love Farrrell’s voice but she is rather pedestrian here, as if sight reading. The scene just doesn’t leap from the printed score. Neither does it.
P.S.: A short while ago I searched for Farrell in this piece on YouTube but came up empty handed. Odd. Also odd is that the video thumbnail is of her in Puccini Arias, a far cry from anything Beethovenian.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Farrell video not available to me here in the UK. THis would appear to be the same one - for anyone else wo is in the UK or Europe.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

To me it seems the words of the aria hardly register with Farrell and a bit more with Brewer. Both have beautiful instruments but don’t or can’t connect with the words - those of a woman who’s afraid to lose her lover and begs him not to leave her - an ancient version of _“ne me quitte pas.” _


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> To me it seems the words of the aria hardly register with Farrell and a bit more with Brewer. Both have beautiful instruments but don’t or can’t connect with the words - those of a woman who’s afraid to lose her lover and begs him not to leave her - an ancient version of _“ne me quitte pas.” _


I made an error in bringing in Callas too early. Can you guys forgive me???? After her no one can compete ever with this particular forum. I am emotionally deaf at times to the nuance you guys demand I guess because my family was repressed emotionally and beautiful singing is enough for me. It is not enough for this sophisticated crowd. I had planned to dramatically close out the contest with Flagstad and Leider next but I think it is a waste of time. I declare Callas is the winner. On to the next contest! All other singers of this aria have been very lacking to you guys voting except for Callas even in her bad late voice. No point continuing. Live and learn. Aside from Callas I hope this long contest was not too much of a waste of your time.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I made an error in bringing in Callas too early. Can you guys forgive me???? After her no one can compete ever with this particular forum. I am emotionally deaf at times to the nuance you guys demand I guess because my family was repressed emotionally and beautiful singing is enough for me. It is not enough for this sophisticated crowd. I had planned to dramatically close out the contest with Flagstad and Leider next but I think it is a waste of time. I declare Callas is the winner. On to the next contest! All other singers of this aria have been very lacking to you guys voting except for Callas even in her bad late voice. No point continuing. Live and learn. Aside from Callas I hope this long contest was not too much of a waste of your time.


Despite my opinion, I I enjoy playing the contest, even if I may not choose the singers you admire. Some singers I may not have heard sing this particular music, others may impress me more than I though they might. That’s the fun of it.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

<rant>As we have often seen, including very recently, beautiful singing can often be boring singing. If the singer doesn't express the sentiment of the words then the listener loses much of the composer's intent and so leaves them wondering what the point of it all had been ... ok it might be enjoyable once or twice but quickly wears thin just like an attractive person with no discernable personality. And that is why less than perfect singing can often be more interesting than just beautiful or the ability to hit some exceptional notes... provided, of course, that the singer really gets what it is all about and is able to communicate. Of course that is not an excuse for poor or sloppy singing, something we also often encounter.</rant - but with (mostly ;-) no intent to offend>

As a related aside, Rostropovich told an interesting story about the time he was recording Strauss' Don Quixote with Karajan. At one point Karajan stopped him and asked why he was making ugly sounds, to which Rostropovich responded with 'but it is an ugly situation' Karajan (approx.) You must never make ugly sounds, only beautiful. Needless to say, I and many others here, strongly disagree with Karajan on this issue.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

P.S. While I don't often participate in these threads, I generally enjoy reading them ... albeit with occasional spikes in my blood pressure.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

As others have said, Farrell falls somewhat short of meeting the expressive demands of this dramatic aria. She just doesn't sound desperate. That said, she's more than a beautiful voice - this isn't Kiri Te Kanawa, bless her placid little heart - and there are many lovely moments. If I didn't know what the piece is about I'd probably be thrilled to have it so beautifully sung. 

Beethoven's music scans pretty well with English, and the translation bothers me less than does, say, Wagner in Italian or Verdi in Russian. Brewer's diction is good, too, and I can understand almost every word. She isn't as sumptuous vocally as Farrell, but she digs a bit deeper into the character. Just for that extra energy, and in spite of the translation, I'll give her the prize.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't think either singer gives us the drama inherent in this piece, but Brewer is a little more involved, where Farrell seems completely detached from the emotions and the drama. Both sing the notes well.

You shouldn't be disheartened, John, just because people don't necessarily like all the singers you showcase. It's always interesting to hear how different singers apply tthemselves to the same piece. With this one, we've had some worthy winners in Callas, Schwarzkopf and Baker (all very different) and the others have at least been interesting to listen to. I don't know if Callas would win in a final of all the winners. In intention at least it is a great performance, but I'm sure there are those who will not be able to get past the state of her voice at that time.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't think either singer gives us the drama inherent in this piece, but Brewer is a little more involved, where Farrell seems completely detached from the emotions and the drama. Both sing the notes well.
> 
> You shouldn't be disheartened, John, just because people don't necessarily like all the singers you showcase. It's always interesting to hear how different singers apply tthemselves to the same piece. With this one, we've had some worthy winners in Callas, Schwarzkopf and Baker (all very different) and the others have at least been interesting to listen to. I don't know if Callas would win in a final of all the winners. In intention at least it is a great performance, but I'm sure there are those who will not be able to get past the state of her voice at that time.


Thanks to both you, Mas and Woodduck for your posts! My dinner out to eat lasted late with my brother and my friend Ellen ( my music partner) and I had to drive my brother to his Airbnb involving 25 minutes of driving at night. Don't tell anyone but I hate night driving because I am old. My nerves got frayed and I was touchy. I will put Flagstad and Leider back on the program. I get frustrated because I just don't pick up on the emotions in performances to the extent most of you do and I think it comes from an emotionally repressed family life. I guess that is better than a family that screamed and yelled at each other like some of my friends had. You guys are patient with me when I steer a little off course. I pick up on emotions in movies but I get carried away in the beauty of the music and lose track of the emotions. I can't tell you what a wonderful vehicle for personal growth these contest has been for me and I am in all of your debt. I am much more confident because of our interactions. Seriously!


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I declare Callas is the winner. …. All other singers of this aria have been very lacking to you guys voting except for Callas even in her bad late voice.


Well, no. Callas is nowhere near close to being a winner in this work. I took the time to introduce a separate contest because the finest _Ah! perfido_ of all _I_ have encountered, by Studer, was ignored. But it cannot be ignored and will not be. Link follows.
Special Round: “Ah! Perfido” ON FILM: Studer, Nilsson...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> Well, no. Callas is nowhere near close to being a winner in this work.


Well, yes, she is, for some people. And yes, if she gets the most votes here. This is a competition for votes among forum members, a competition for who prefers whom among the singers offered. It is not a competition for the title Queen of the Opera Forever - although if it were I have a sneaking suspicion that a certain Greek-American thorn in your side might win it. 



> I took the time to introduce a separate contest because the finest _Ah! perfido_ of all _I_ have encountered, by Studer, was ignored. But it cannot be ignored and will not be.


Actually, it can, and by some people it will. They will have their reasons, they will be entitled to them, and they will owe no explanations to anyone, particularly not to anyone telling them what they should, must and will think and do.

I hope that in my efforts to be gentlemanly I haven't been too subtle.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Actually, it can, and by some people it will. They will have their reasons, they will be entitled to them, and they will owe no explanations to anyone, particularly not to anyone telling them what they should, must and will think and do.


Woodduck, it isn’t about “telling anyone what they should, must and will think and do“. Rather:

_If anyone believes that having initiated a separate thread on the LvB concert aria because one of the finest (if not the finest) renditions of the piece was deliberately excluded constitutes an agenda, then so be it. Ignoring or excluding it, in fact, constitutes an agenda, particularly in light of the other inferior selections that have been presented _(now joined by the Farrell and Brewer renditions).


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

'deliberately', 'agenda', 'ignoring', 'excluding' ... do you have some unique insights into the mind of the thread creator?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> Woodduck, it isn’t about “telling anyone what they should, must and will think and do“. Rather:
> 
> _If anyone believes that having initiated a separate thread on the LvB concert aria because one of the finest (if not the finest) renditions of the piece was deliberately excluded constitutes an agenda, then so be it. Ignoring or excluding it, in fact, constitutes an agenda, particularly in light of the other inferior selections that have been presented _(now joined by the Farrell and Brewer renditions).


OK, OK, I'll be a sport. I'm listening to Studer now (but not watching; I never watch, so as to concentrate on the singing).



Done. I expected an intelligent performance, and she gives one. Do I find it as potent an experience as the Callas? No. Her clear intentions notwithstanding, in this highly dramatic music her voice simply lacks dimension: power, depth and color. I hear her trying to express things, but I'm unmoved. This is what I've often found with her, and I have to think it's why she's generally respected but not among most people's favorite singers.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Woodduck, no one but yourself forced you to go through “the agony”.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> Woodduck, no one but yourself forced you to go through “the agony”.


No good deed goes unpunished. 

It wasn't agony. It wasn't potent enough for that.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ALT said:


> Oh god, not again. This time Beethoven in English. We went through a small fracas the other day over Wagner in Italian (which was my fault for introducing it). LvB in English alone disqualifies Brewer. I love Farrrell’s voice but she is rather pedestrian here, as if sight reading. The scene just doesn’t leap from the printed score. Neither does it.
> P.S.: A short while ago I searched for Farrell in this piece on YouTube but came up empty handed. Odd. Also odd is that the video thumbnail is of her in Puccini Arias, a far cry from anything Beethovenian.


There was no fracas.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

They were both very good. However, the color of Farrel"s voice was a little prettier.
I hear in Brewer's voice something like countertenors (?) sound, or the little thing which I find weird in the voice of Marilyn Horne ? Possibly older Marilyn Horne ? Does it make any sense ?
Also Farrell had the advantage of the Italian language. So I voted for her, but both were really good.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

@Seattleoperafan , for some reasons, I am with you in this round. I am happy chirpy with both singers and don't miss the dramatic depths. Did I sleep good last night, or what ?
I like them better than Callas. I admire her version as a concept, but feel the discomfort of her voice not serving her wishes well anymore.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am much more confident because of our interactions. Seriously!


I also became more confident during the contests. I write my comments before reading the others. Whatever weird thing I write, I usually discover that one or two people wrote something similar. Before I participated in the contests, I thought I am weird somehow, for liking the singers others don't. That there is some secret lore I don't understand. And maybe there is, but the emotions are there also without the lore.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I finally write here, maybe too late. I find Farrell's voice amazing, she seems effortless. Perhaps I'm perfunctory, but I don't see her reputed acting inability. She's just not Meryl Streep.
Christine Brewer was good too. It was English translation that attenuated an impression. The piece sounded like something disneyish.


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