# Classical Music - A TURNOFF



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Tried a small experiment on a dating website last week. Made a profile with one of my better pictures and in the "About me" was honest with my musical tastes: said that I was mostly into classical, particularly Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, casually suggested in "first date" that we go to an Opera or symphony (among the more conventional movie, drinks, or dinner suggestions). Restrained myself from professing obsessive love for classical music, added that I was open to other genres of music, etc. Anyways after a few days I only got a handful of messages, all of which were very short, generic "hey how are you" - type messages I suspect are sent to everyone who pops up on their homepage. 

Then I changed "classical music" to "rock" and suggested we take in a concert as opposed to an opera. Left it for the same number of days, and then checked back - I had gotten many more messages this time, most of which were personalized, asking which bands I was into, etc.

Should I conclude that at least classical-loving 20-somethings should stay closeted with their musical tastes until later into a relationship?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Not surprised what happened. Honestly, we have to admit that classical music isn't many young people's thing nowadays. If someone did give you an energetic message saying they would be very interested in going to a classical concert (like me ) you would be a lucky man.

I guess it depends how much classical music is a part of your life. I'm easily able to keep classical music out of my conversations at school. But consequently, most people hardly know the half of my life, listening to weird composers like Prokofiev, and playing flute for various events. Music is a huge part of my life. But I'm fine leaving it out for now, college will be better I think.  

But if classical music isn't as major for yourself, it could be good to introduce it later to a person. Introduce first your what you think is most precious to you, then details later.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> [...]
> Should I conclude that at least classical-loving 20-somethings should stay closeted with their musical tastes until later into a relationship?


Sooner or later you will have to reveal that you are a vampire - er I mean into classical music.

:devil:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Not surprised what happened. Honestly, we have to admit that classical music isn't many young people's thing nowadays. If someone did give you an energetic message saying they would be very interested in going to a classical concert (like me ) you would be a lucky man.
> 
> I guess it depends how much classical music is a part of your life. I'm easily able to keep classical music out of my conversations at school. But consequently, most people hardly know the half of my life, listening to weird composers like Prokofiev, and playing flute for various events. Music is a huge part of my life. But I'm fine leaving it out for now, college will be better I think.
> 
> But if classical music isn't as major for yourself, it could be good to introduce it later to a person. Introduce first your what you think is most precious to you, then details later.


The problem is that music IS a big part of almost everybody's life. Music says a lot about a person which is why people can take criticizing the music they like almost as a personal attack. It's is not long after meeting somebody new, and almost certainly on a first date, that the "what music are you into?" question pops up. I typically start with the uselessly vague "A little bit of everything, whatever's on", etc. and quickly ask them the same question. Their reply is of course rarely classical and I seem to be lucky if it's something I'm vaguely familiar with. Occasionally the conversation falls on classical and it's always, "yeah I listen to classical it's relaxing/good for working to, I really like the moonlight sonata" and which point it takes everything I can muster to not show that person all the white under my iris.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Music has always had a social aspect. This is even more true when one in younger. In spite of the fact that our teens and twenties are spent discovering and defining ourselves, there is also an overwhelming peer pressure to conform to the _status quo_. It is almost certain that if you suggested an admiration for old bluegrass, the blues, Indian ragas, disco, Frank Sinatra, jazz, or even 1950's rock you would find that you would again be seen as something of an outsider.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Personally, if I frequented dating websites, I'd be totally excited to see a profile like that. I'm much more inclined to be interested in someone if they share my tastes in music, and, in fact, have never dated anyone who wasn't a classical musician. But I guess I'm not exactly "normal."


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

Classical music implies sophistication and refined taste in art. So, if a girl is into classical, it's OK, no, it's not just OK, it's great, it sends the message "I am both smart and beautiful, I have some brains too". It makes a girl MORE attractive and it makes her look interesting.

However, if a guy is into classical, it can imply "He is gay". And that's why it's unpopular.

Gays have refined artistic tastes, they are into fashion and design, etc. So, having such a refined musical taste implies (if you are a man) that you are either gay or snob. Both of which is a turn off. Unfortunately.

Rock music, on the other hand, comes with totally different stereotypes. It imples you are "a bad guy", you are tough, you are independent, you are direct, confident and aggressive, and ALSO it implies you have some brains too, because rock is considered artistically MUCH MORE refined and sophisticated than commercial pop or house music, such as Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Black Eyed Peas etc.

So for a guy, the best thing is to be into a tough, hard and non-mainstream rock band.
That's why SO MANY guys say exactly that - that they are into such bands.
It's much more about their reputation than about their real taste in music.

In the end, it goes without saying that all those stereotypes are generally wrong, but people are so willing to sacrifice their integrity for the sake of popularity and/or social or mating success. Which is all perfectly understandable, so I won't blame those guys.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> casually suggested in "first date" that we go to an Opera or symphony


That's why it all happened.

Who would go to opera at first date? It's even more disrespectful towards each other than having sex during first meeting. Do you go out to opera with random people that you don't know nothing about? What if you would end watching 3-hours long opera with some misfire poseur by your side that would yawn all the time and disturb you asking how long will it take?

Have some respect for yourself and for music and then you may find a decent wife.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Whistlerguy said:


> So, if a girl is into classical, it's OK, no, it's not just OK, it's great, it sends the message "I am both smart and beautiful, I have some brains too". It makes a girl MORE attractive and it makes her look interesting.


Mm, I dunno... when I've told people about my musical interests before they've gotten to know me, I've definitely met with assumptions that I'm snobbish, very introverted, or very nerdy (and only the last of those is true of me--or at least, so I like to think). What happens most commonly is that whenever these people want to tell me anything about the music they like, they preface it with "Now, I don't really know anything about music, but..."

I think people who do perceive classical music as a "sophisticated" interest sometimes expect to be looked down upon by people who like it, which is why they may be less comfortable with them (/us).

As for guys who like classical, I think they are indeed stereotyped as being less "macho," as you have observed. But fortunately for them, not all women (or men) are drawn to puffed-up machismo.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I met my wife via online personals. Its been many years, but if I remember correctly, I did mention my interest in classical music in my ad, but I also said that I try to keep an open mind toward all kinds of music and hoped that anyone responding to my ad would do the same. My future wife and I had been dating for several months before I suggested we go to a concert together, and by that time she and I were close enough that it was something she was willing to do just because she knew it was something that I liked even though it wasn't really something she was interested in doing. 
After reading this thread I asked her what she would have thought if I had put more emphasis on my musical preferences and suggested a concert as a first date. She said that she probably would not have responded, just because before she met me it wasn't something that she had even thought about or had any interest in.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Who doesn't want to date (or marry) a hot violinist whose Mozart is as sweet as her lovemaking? 

Unfortunately for many of us, there aren't a lot of these sort of women to be found. But they exist, I assure you. They do exist. You just have to search in the right places.

I'm not sure a random internet dating site would be one of those places.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Aramis said:


> That's why it all happened.
> 
> Who would go to opera at first date? It's even more disrespectful towards each other than having sex during first meeting. Do you go out to opera with random people that you don't know nothing about? What if you would end watching 3-hours long opera with some misfire poseur by your side that would yawn all the time and disturb you asking how long will it take?
> 
> Have some respect for yourself and for music and then you may find a decent wife.


Obviously discretion is required: there are some operas that wouldn't make for a good first date the same way there are movies you would never take a date to, and bars you would never go to.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Air said:


> Who doesn't want to date (or marry) a hot violinist whose Mozart is as sweet as her lovemaking?
> 
> Unfortunately for many of us, there aren't a lot of these sort of women to be found. But they exist, I assure you. They do exist. You just have to search in the right places.
> 
> I'm not sure a random internet dating site would be one of those places.


Being a musician is a good way to meet lots of attractive musicians.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Obviously discretion is required: there are some operas that wouldn't make for a good first date the same way there are movies you would never take a date to, and bars you would never go to.


That's not it - it's just that opera or concert hall is not a place where you take someone to have some good time together, because you either experience the work you are hearing (and watching) inside and thus are alone and unpresent for anyone else or you're wasting time there. If you will go there with someone you hardly know you will feel obligated to keep him/her company, it will prevent you and probably the other person as well from focusing on art. It's uncomfortable situation. I can't imagine such date with successful outcome. It's more acurate to get to known each other and then go to such place in order to experience together, it is possible only between people who know each other well.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Aramis said:


> That's not it - it's just that opera or concert hall is not a place where you take someone to have some good time together, because you either experience the work you are hearing (and watching) inside and thus are alone and unpresent for anyone else or you're wasting time there. If you will go there with someone you hardly know you will feel obligated to keep him/her company, it will prevent you and probably the other person as well from focusing on art. I can't imagine such date with successful outcome. It's more acurate to get to known each other and then go to such place in order to experience together, it is possible only between people who know each other well.


The same can be said about taking a date to a movie. Part of the problem with any first date is the stress of having to keep a flux of conversation flowing so there aren't any awkward silences. Movies, and likewise concerts/opera/theatre provides prolonged exposure to each other and time to get comfortable around each other without having to speak. They also give you an immediate conversational piece at dinner or whatever afterwards. Unlike movies, concerts/opera also have the added bonus of an intermission in the middle to catch up with the person for a nice 20-minute to half hour conversation. In addition, if after the first act I had any suspicion the date wasn't having a good time I'd turn to her and with a smile ask, "wanna get the _hell_ outta here?" and we'd go onto something else. Don't worry, I'd be able to work it.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> Personally, if I frequented dating websites, I'd be totally excited to see a profile like that. I'm much more inclined to be interested in someone if they share my tastes in music, and, in fact, *have never dated anyone who wasn't a classical musician*. But I guess I'm not exactly "normal."


Where do you find these kind of people?



Meaghan said:


> Being a musician is a good way to meet lots of attractive musicians.


I'm a musician, and a lonely one


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Pieck said:


> Where do you find these kind of people?
> 
> I'm a musician, and a lonely one


What do you play? I guess people in orchestras have it better than, for instance, pianists.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Oh, my God, going to an opera for a date, any date and not just the first one: what a nightmarish scenario! Meanwhile, absolutely nothing is wrong with going to a symphony performance for a first date, as long as both know the work they are signing up for and that there's a good chance they will be able to enjoy it. Or, for a surprise variety, the opposite of that could be suggested, a "deaf" date of a kind, when none of the two know what they are about to hear.



Couchie said:


> Should I conclude that at least classical-loving 20-somethings should stay closeted with their musical tastes until later into a relationship?


A good idea, most definitely. And, for the opera lovers, may I even suggest that they should stay in a closet forever.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> What do you play? I guess people in orchestras have it better than, for instance, pianists.


The recorder (I'm serious, and not 10 years old)


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Pieck said:


> The recorder (I'm serious, and not 10 years old)


I have a good friend who is studying recorder (he's into early music), and so I do take it seriously as an instrument. He taught me a little and we sightread Telemann stuff. Recorder's fun.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Classical music implies sophistication and refined taste in art. So, if a girl is into classical, it's OK, no, it's not just OK, it's great, it sends the message "I am both smart and beautiful, I have some brains too". It makes a girl MORE attractive and it makes her look interesting.

However, if a guy is into classical, it can imply "He is gay". And that's why it's unpopular.

Gays have refined artistic tastes, they are into fashion and design, etc. So, having such a refined musical taste implies (if you are a man) that you are either gay or snob. Both of which is a turn off. Unfortunately.

Did you actually write that!!!???

Classical music implies sophistication, a refined taste, and brains? Can we get more cliche? There is good and bad music in every genre and individuals with the greatest intellect and sophistication may be at odds as to just what is "good" and what is "bad". A taste for classical music may certainly suggest a willingness of the individual to think for themselves... to explore music seriously as an art form that extends beyond the latest popular music... but a taste for jazz or blues or old bluegrass or Hollywood musicals may suggest the same.

If a guy is into "classical music" it can imply that he is gay!!!??? Really? Gays listen to classical music more than straights? I've known gays who were into disco and others who loved Hollywood show tunes and Judy Garland and still others (the vast majority) who listened to the same commercial crap everyone else listened to.

But you suggest this cliche because gays have refined artistic tastes. Damn! That does me in. All these years I've been struggling to make something of a career as a visual artist, and here I find out that the prerequisite is that I give up women. My wife won't be thrilled. (Or then again... perhaps she might... you never can tell:lol. Perhaps there is a larger percentage of homosexuals working within the arts than within other fields... but this does not infer that homosexuals are inherently more creative or refined in their tastes. Might it not just as likely be that the arts provide a realm for the individual that is less judgmental?


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

I think (/hope) that he was describing stereotypes, rather than his own beliefs. At least, that was how I interpreted the post you have quoted. Hence the "cliches."


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

That's what I said in the end of that post:



> In the end, it goes without saying that all those stereotypes are generally wrong, but people are so willing to sacrifice their integrity for the sake of popularity and/or social or mating success. Which is all perfectly understandable, so I won't blame those guys.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Couchie said:


> The same can be said about taking a date to a movie. Part of the problem with any first date is the stress of having to keep a flux of conversation flowing so there aren't any awkward silences. Movies, and likewise concerts/opera/theatre provides prolonged exposure to each other and time to get comfortable around each other without having to speak. They also give you an immediate conversational piece at dinner or whatever afterwards. Unlike movies, concerts/opera also have the added bonus of an intermission in the middle to catch up with the person for a nice 20-minute to half hour conversation. In addition, if after the first act I had any suspicion the date wasn't having a good time I'd turn to her and with a smile ask, "wanna get the _hell_ outta here?" and we'd go onto something else. Don't worry, I'd be able to work it.


Might depend what. Barber of Seville, why not. Tristan und Isolde or anything directed by Calixto Bieito, probably not.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Classical music (or maybe other non-mainstream music like say jazz) may well be a "turn off" for prospective romantic partners, but there are probably worse things. Eg. being addicted to drugs - especially alcohol and narcotics; having psychopathic or control freak tendencies, being a sex maniac, these sorts of things. Of course, people don't advertise these things online, although one might get a glimpse of the "real" person at say work or in other social situations, no matter how hard they try to cover things up. Of course, some people are attracted to high-risk, dangerous and out of control people. My sister told me that most of the "hot" guys that she's dated have turned out to be total douchebags, whereas the more average looking guys turn out to be quite nice, but they bore her. So there's the rub. I think one's taste in music may well be part of the equation, but I'm not sure if it really matters in the long run. I don't go to opera, but I go to a few concerts or recitals per month, and I see quite a few people are not there with their partners, they're either there alone or with friend/s...


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Might depend what. Barber of Seville, why not. Tristan und Isolde or anything directed by Calixto Bieito, probably not.


No man, take her to Tristan und Isolde, focus heavily on the music and say nothing for the entire four hours. Then, after Isolde sings the final words of the Liebestod and drops dead, turn to your date, grab both her hands and look deep into her eyes and whisper: "I want that to be _us!_"


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Couchie said:


> No man, take her to Tristan und Isolde, focus heavily on the music and say nothing for the entire four hours. Then, after Isolde sings the final words of the Liebestod and drops dead, turn to your date, grab both her hands and look deep into her eyes and whisper: "I want that to be _us!_"


:lol: Uh-oh!


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## DoctorZhivago (May 10, 2011)

I think if you say it confidently to a date, it proves you are classy and possess a certain degree of refinement. A real trashy girl may not be into it, but I think any female with any degree of sophistication would be impressed. Most girls don't want a dumb meat head - they like guys who possess some "girlier" traits like cooking, being able to dance, interest in art/music/fashion etc. (Which, in fact, aren't at all girly and were a part of learning to be an ideal gentlemen for centuries, cooking excluded).

Think of admitting an interest in classical as a natural way to weed out undesirables.

Of course if you don't say it confidently, if when she asks about music you say - "well, um, actually, I uhh...kinda like classical music..but not too much" she may be turned off.

I mean, tell me you can't see a young Sean Connery wooing a girl by telling her about his love of [insert composer].


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Meaghan said:


> Mm, I dunno... when I've told people about my musical interests before they've gotten to know me, I've definitely met with assumptions that I'm snobbish, very introverted, or very nerdy (and only the last of those is true of me--or at least, so I like to think). What happens most commonly is that whenever these people want to tell me anything about the music they like, they preface it with "Now, I don't really know anything about music, but..."
> 
> I think people who do perceive classical music as a "sophisticated" interest sometimes expect to be looked down upon by people who like it, which is why they may be less comfortable with them (/us).
> 
> As for guys who like classical, I think they are indeed stereotyped as being less "macho," as you have observed. But fortunately for them, not all women (or men) are drawn to puffed-up machismo.


You could say that you're into classical music, romantic movies AND rugby or boxing. A sensitive neanderthal with a brain sorta covers it all and would be irresistible to the ladies.


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## beethovenian (May 2, 2011)

I am not so sure about going to an opera on a first date....

Otherwise, just be true and sincere, no point bluffing or being vague about yourself just to get that beautiful girl whose interest is radically different from yours. In the long run, such a relationship is going to fall apart when the incompatibilities start to become apparent.

Just present yourself as you are, sooner or later(usually the latter:lol the right woman will just come up to you herself. You dun want to send the wrong messages to the wrong girl and end up with lady gaga fanatic ,DO YOU?!


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

To be fair, I hate going to see operas because I think dressing up is for tools. The whole image-based culture surrounding classical music is extremely tedious.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

regressivetransphobe said:


> To be fair, I hate going to see operas because I think dressing up is for tools. The whole image-based culture surrounding classical music is extremely tedious.


So is the never ending grumbling about it despite the fact that today you can freely go to philharmonic dressed like some rap listener and noone will look at you like you would seem out of place without tie. Btw, there's nothing wrong about elegance :< :< :<


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

The thing is - WHY LIE? Don't you want to meet someone with whom you can share your passion for classical music? I think you might be surprised how many girls like classical music - you might just have been unlucky at first. And don't you think that initiating a relationship partly through deceit sends-out a lot of wrong messages?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

regressivetransphobe said:


> To be fair, I hate going to see operas because I think dressing up is for tools. The whole image-based culture surrounding classical music is extremely tedious.


Rubbish. Who says you have to dress up? All you have to be is clean and and quiet.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

If you want to meet young women into classical music, go to concerts at a nearby conservatory (they're usually free). Not only will she like classical music, but she'll be desperately looking for a guy, since most guys at conservatories are gay (I'm not being bigoted, I know this from first hand experience).


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

I think the OP's experiment was interesting and fun but really many succesful couples have different ideas about what Music and Films, etc. they like and I would suggest it's more important to be able to enjoy someone's company on a deeper level rather than worry about superficial things like taste in Music .


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

In my experience, women interested in classical music are more attractive and intelligent than average. So what if they're a little harder to find? Most of us only need one. (I need two, or so, but I'm informed quite sternly that I'm only allowed the one.)


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Couchie said:


> ... said that I was mostly into classical, particularly Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, ...


It could have been a lot worse if you said you were mostly into Stockhausen, Xenakis, Cage etc. etc. if you wanted to show how refine your classical music taste is to attract the right girl over for a romantic evening of fine music ... at least Bach and Beethoven ain't that bad ...


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Nix said:


> most guys at conservatories are gay (I'm not being bigoted, I know this from first hand experience).


I am aghast at your bigotted generalisation! Shame on you!


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Nix said:


> If you want to meet young women into classical music, go to concerts at a nearby conservatory (they're usually free). Not only will she like classical music, but she'll be desperately looking for a guy, since most guys at conservatories are gay (I'm not being bigoted, I know this from first hand experience).


That's freaking hilarious: I can't quite figure out if I should like classical music more or less because of this. 



Delicious Manager said:


> I am aghast at your bigotted generalisation! Shame on you!


Why anyone should be slammed as a bigot just for stating of what they warn was something that they actually happened to be a party to? Is this what witness protection programs are for?


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Couchie said:


> The problem is that music IS a big part of almost everybody's life. Music says a lot about a person which is why people can take criticizing the music they like almost as a personal attack. It's is not long after meeting somebody new, and almost certainly on a first date, that the "what music are you into?" question pops up. I typically start with the uselessly vague "A little bit of everything, whatever's on", etc. and quickly ask them the same question. Their reply is of course rarely classical and I seem to be lucky if it's something I'm vaguely familiar with. Occasionally the conversation falls on classical and it's always, "yeah I listen to classical it's relaxing/good for working to, I really like the moonlight sonata" and which point it takes everything I can muster to not show that person all the white under my iris.


This appears to be a dangerous way of thinking. Above all, any kind of music is entertainment in one form or another; people listen to it because they enjoy something about it. It puts them in the right mood for something... and that can be anything, from John Coltrane to Radiohead to Stravinsky...

Also, as it has been mentioned, music is very often a social experience. You listen to a type of music because your friends listen to it, because you hear it on the radio. One of the reasons classical is not as possible is because you simply aren't spontaneously exposed to it as much in school, at work, or on the radio. That's why people are generally more familiar with other kinds of music.

My point is that you cannot negatively judge a person based on what type of music they listen to - it's like hating somebody because they haven't seen _Citizen Kane_ or because they're not into _Glee_. Shouldn't we have full control over our entertainment preferences without worrying about how others perceive our taste?


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

You have to realize that you are a rare commodity, you aren't just another brainwashed sheep lumbering through life with lady gaga stuck in your head. You are a different kind of person and therefore because of this you deserve a different kind of person as well. Another dumb person who falls for the mainstream music/media agendas aren't going to cut it. Therefore you must realize that just as you are one in a thousand, so are the women who love classical music. Actually to be honest, I would go so far as to say that a woman who truly loves classical music is one in two thousand. My point being, sure you can get a lot of flies with honey, but if you can catch one with vinegar then you've got one special fly. (haha, pretty bad analogy but you get my point)


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> You have to realize that you are a rare commodity, you aren't just another brainwashed sheep lumbering through life with lady gaga stuck in your head. You are a different kind of person and therefore because of this you deserve a different kind of person as well. Another dumb person who falls for the mainstream music/media agendas aren't going to cut it. Therefore you must realize that just as you are one in a thousand, so are the women who love classical music. Actually to be honest, I would go so far as to say that a woman who truly loves classical music is one in two thousand. My point being, sure you can get a lot of flies with honey, but if you can catch one with vinegar then you've got one special fly. (haha, pretty bad analogy but you get my point)


I don't know about the rest of you, but when I'm looking for a potential girlfriend/mate, I care much more about her personality/attitude, looks, and aspirations, and much less about the the type of music she listens to. You just have to realize that generally, music isn't the most important thing in life... We can love classical music to death and know a lot more about music theory and history than other people, but that doesn't necessarily make us more interesting and intelligent people, it just means we have an interest we're passionate about. Everybody has their own passions, but it's only a little part of what makes us unique.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Serge said:


> Why anyone should be slammed as a bigot just for stating of what they warn was something that they actually happened to be a party to? Is this what witness protection programs are for?


Because it's not true??


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

> most guys at conservatories are gay (I'm not being bigoted, I know this from first hand experience).





Delicious Manager said:


> I am aghast at your bigotted generalisation! Shame on you!


It's the same in my experience. Not that I mind!

Can't be mad at us for observing what's going on


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## beethovenian (May 2, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> We can love classical music to death and know a lot more about music theory and history than other people, but that doesn't necessarily make us more interesting and intelligent people, it just means we have an interest we're passionate about.


It's hard to imagine someone who raves equally about Lady gaga and Stanley Kubrick
or 
someone who understands schoenberg/debussy and also enjoy reading the twlight novel series
or 
someone who has a degree in music and also listens to justin beiber and the likes.

It may not necessarily make us more interesting or smart. But chances are if a person appreciates a certain finer aspect of things (take classical music for example), he/she would be likely to seek out equally fine things in other areas of life.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Rasa said:


> It's the same in my experience. Not that I mind!
> 
> Can't be mad at us for observing what's going on


All I can say is that this completely contradicts my experience. WEIRD! :tiphat:


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Regarding my experience, the music department at my university contains only one gay male as far as I've seen. The dance department, on the other hand........


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

beethovenian said:


> It's hard to imagine someone who raves equally about Lady gaga and Stanley Kubrick
> or
> someone who understands schoenberg/debussy and also enjoy reading the twlight novel series
> or
> someone who has a degree in music and also listens to justin beiber and the likes.


Mm, I dunno, I _know_ people (college students) who fit into these and similar categories. In particular, a guy who just finished his thesis on the _Appassionata_ and describes Lady Gaga as his "favorite party music" and a girl who recently composed a very good requiem setting and reads Twilight (though she also makes fun of it). Even people who enjoy intellectual pursuits need to let loose from time to time, and sometimes they enjoy lighter entertainment. Though I wouldn't say these friends "rave equally" about their pop culture interests--it's more of an on-the-side thing.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> You have to realize that you are a rare commodity, you aren't just another brainwashed sheep lumbering through life with lady gaga stuck in your head. You are a different kind of person and therefore because of this you deserve a different kind of person as well. Another dumb person who falls for the mainstream music/media agendas aren't going to cut it. Therefore you must realize that just as you are one in a thousand, so are the women who love classical music. Actually to be honest, I would go so far as to say that a woman who truly loves classical music is one in two thousand. My point being, sure you can get a lot of flies with honey, but if you can catch one with vinegar then you've got one special fly. (haha, pretty bad analogy but you get my point)


Lots of Lady gaga fans aren't brainwashed sheep, they just like Lady gaga. Just like there are lots of people (including classical music fans) who prefer Avatar or Star Wars over 'art movies.'


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Lots of Lady gaga fans aren't brainwashed sheep, they just like Lady gaga. Just like there are lots of people (including classical music fans) who prefer Avatar or Star Wars over 'art movies.'


I know an attractive young woman whose favorite musicians are Lady Gaga, Cannonball Adderly, and Jascha Heifetz. Her favorite writers are Milton and Cormac McCarthy.

Whatever she is, she's not a sheep!

So you're right about that.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

science said:


> I know an attractive young woman whose favorite musicians are Lady Gaga, Cannonball Adderly, and Jascha Heifetz. Her favorite writers are Milton and Cormac McCarthy.
> 
> Whatever she is, she's not a sheep!
> 
> So you're right about that.


I beg to differ, Lady Gaga is not a musician IMHO, she did nothing to earn that title


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

jhar26 said:


> Lots of Lady gaga fans aren't brainwashed sheep, they just like Lady gaga. Just like there are lots of people (including classical music fans) who prefer Avatar or Star Wars over 'art movies.'


Well, just because someone can appreciate or understand something above and beyond other people in one aspect of their life doesn't mean that they can't fall victim to totally shallow and worthless things in another aspect of their life. For example, I try and eat organically and to (and often fail to) stay away from sugar and large quantities of wheat products. My old astronomy professor came to class once with a bag of Burger king. He is obviously succuming to the mainstream americanized health hazard called "fast food" and so in that aspect of his life one could say that he is a follower or at the least oblivious/aloof to the true reality of what he puts into his body. However, while that is so he also can understand calculus based physics on a level that would make me curl up into a ball and cry. I am nowhere near to him in that aspect. Point being, one can totally surpass the general population while at the same time conform stupidly(possibly too strong a word but not necessarily) to the popular behavior, tastes etc.



science said:


> I know an attractive young woman whose favorite musicians are Lady Gaga, Cannonball Adderly, and Jascha Heifetz. Her favorite writers are Milton and Cormac McCarthy.
> 
> Whatever she is, she's not a sheep!
> 
> So you're right about that.


Read above for my response to this arguement but on a side note, I'd like to meet a girl who enjoyed some Cormac McCarthy, he's personally one of my favorite, if not my favorite writer at the moment. Im actually currently re-reading the border trilogy. Great stuff.



Pieck said:


> I beg to differ, Lady Gaga is not a musician IMHO, she did nothing to earn that title


Agreed. Lady Gaga is a puppet for the masses.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Ravellian said:


> I don't know about the rest of you, but when I'm looking for a potential girlfriend/mate, I care much more about her personality/attitude, looks, and aspirations, and much less about the the type of music she listens to. You just have to realize that generally, music isn't the most important thing in life... We can love classical music to death and know a lot more about music theory and history than other people, but that doesn't necessarily make us more interesting and intelligent people, it just means we have an interest we're passionate about. Everybody has their own passions, but it's only a little part of what makes us unique.


Sorry for the double post but I just saw this.

I see where you're coming from and I certainly agree with you to an extent. The thing is that many people are very shallow and I mean that in a vast sense. Their personalities are generic and predictable and they listen to the same music, watch the same movies and have the same political and moral beliefs. I don't believe that most of these people are passionate about a single thing however and therefore they are indifferent enough about everything to simply adopt other people's tastes and behaviors etc. These people scoff at anything different or new as being "weird" and those that actually are passionate about something they label "nerds" and things of that nature. The epitome of this kind of behavior occurs during high school but it carries on throughout life and is still certainly prevalent within college.

What I'm saying is that one must weed through all of these people to find the people who like that which is different. The people with open minds that say, "hey, I've never seen that before and I don't understand it, but I'd like to". The people who are "turned on" by those who are passionate and different and pursue that which they love.

That's what I meant.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> Agreed. Lady Gaga is a puppet for the masses.


Not really. If anything the masses are puppets for Lady gaga.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Lots of Lady gaga fans aren't brainwashed sheep, they just like Lady gaga. Just like there are lots of people (including classical music fans) who prefer Avatar or Star Wars over 'art movies.'


Yep. I still enjoy pre-'70s bluegrass, and the Dirty Harry movies ('s one reason I still have my VCR).

:devil:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Not really. If anything the masses are puppets for Lady gaga.


Willing puppets, knowing GaGa's persona is a carefully-crafted business model that presses all the right buttons.

60 Minutes segment...

http://www.ladygaga.com/news/default.aspx?nid=33998


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Delicious Manager said:


> Because it's not true??


It's very true, depending on where you go to school. If it's a conservatory in an urban area (and most of them are), and especially if they have a musical theatre department, which plenty do, then 'most' would be the right adjective. If you have had a different experience at a conservatory then I'd be interested to hear it, but so far I've got Rasa backing me up and we both attend music school. And I never said it was a bad thing; many of my closest friends are gay.

Edit* just caught your second post. Do you mind me asking where you attend school- or at least the city? If it's somewhere near the bible belt it could be that a) people simply aren't out due to conflicting circumstances with their upbringing, or b) not a lot of gay people apply there _because_ of where it's located. Or I could have it wrong and you graduated school awhile ago at a time when being out of the closet was much less common.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Meaghan said:


> ...Even people who enjoy intellectual pursuits need to let loose from time to time, and sometimes they enjoy lighter entertainment. Though I wouldn't say these friends "rave equally" about their pop culture interests--it's more of an on-the-side thing.


That's exactly how I am. When it comes for paying for music - eg. concerts and recordings - it's almost solely classical for me. But as for what I don't pay for, like listen to on the radio, I listen to a lot of non-classical - from jazz, to techno, electro, metal, hip hop, dubstep, roots, rock, etc. (most of it non-mainstream, but some of it is). When it comes to classical, I'm an in-depth kind of person. I don't listen to a lot compared to some of you here, but I like to listen to what I've got repeatedly and appreciate it just as much as I can. But as for non-classical, I like it as background/wallpaper music when I'm say reading the local newspaper or a book. I have great respect for non-classical musicians, many of them actually came from a classical background, and they produce some great stuff. But classical & non-classical are different realms for me, I don't go that deeply into the former, although it is basically part of my regular listening.

BTW - I just read Andre Rieu's biography, and in it he's asked a question as to what he doesn't like the most. He answers "snobs." I agree with the man. I think it's nonsense to elevate one type of music over another. Particularly as so called "high" and "low" art are coming together now in a big way, & they have been for a long time. I'm not a huge fan of Rieu, but I respect him as a musician, as much as I respect say Hilary Hahn. Rieu has almost singlehandedly resurrected much of the pre-WW2 light repertoire, which was formerly only found on obscure 48 & 78 rpm records. In a way, just like the "original instruments" movement, he's shed new light onto old repertoire...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> Read above for my response to this arguement but on a side note, I'd like to meet a girl who *enjoyed *some *Cormac McCarthy*, he's personally one of my favorite, if not my favorite writer at the moment. Im actually currently re-reading the border trilogy. Great stuff.


I'm not sure if these can be used in the same sentence. Mind you I've only read The Road, and I thought it was brilliant, but there are scenes from it that I wish were not seared into my brain.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'm not sure if these can be used in the same sentence.


Haha 

"Appreciated," perhaps?


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## beethovenian (May 2, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> Mm, I dunno, I _know_ people (college students) who fit into these and similar categories. In particular, a guy who just finished his thesis on the _Appassionata_ and describes Lady Gaga as his "favorite party music" and a girl who recently composed a very good requiem setting and reads Twilight (though she also makes fun of it). *Even people who enjoy intellectual pursuits need to let loose from time to time*, and sometimes they enjoy lighter entertainment. Though I wouldn't say these friends "rave equally" about their pop culture interests--it's more of an on-the-side thing.


Yes such people...no actually we all do need a break sometimes and loosen up, nothing is wrong with that. But for most other people, they are just loose the whole time. 
Again such people - in my opinion - are the exceptions. But there must be an explanation to why these people do such things. Take the guy in your example, he likes to party, so quite naturally music like lady gaga will be fit for such an occasion unless he would like to dance to Johann strauss...


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## Lucas Vigor (Apr 3, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Music has always had a social aspect. This is even more true when one in younger. In spite of the fact that our teens and twenties are spent discovering and defining ourselves, there is also an overwhelming peer pressure to conform to the _status quo_. It is almost certain that if you suggested an admiration for old bluegrass, the blues, Indian ragas, disco, Frank Sinatra, jazz, or even 1950's rock you would find that you would again be seen as something of an outsider.


Great. I guess I am out of luck in the current dating scene, as you just mentioned pretty much every style outside of classical that I like!


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'm not sure if these can be used in the same sentence. Mind you I've only read The Road, and I thought it was brilliant, but there are scenes from it that I wish were not seared into my brain.


Well I personally enjoyed that book, but if you read some of his other works they aren't all quite so shockingly discriptive... though at the same time others are more so. I don't think that The Road is a good example of McCarthy's excellent writing style, I would suggest either the border trilogy or Blood Meridian, though the ladder of these is very graphic.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

haha...wow, pretty good experiment...hate to say it but the results it are pretty much spot on and shouldn't come as a surprise...and this from someone who has loved classical each day of his life, still, it is a easier for most to relate to popular music especially someone looking for love in all the wrong places


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

How is the dating going couchie????????????


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

beethovenian said:


> It's hard to imagine someone who raves equally about Lady gaga and Stanley Kubrick
> or
> someone who understands schoenberg/debussy and also enjoy reading the twlight novel series






4 million views. Although I doubt any of them listen to anything past 'Clair De Lune'. A Schoenberg meets Twilight video would have been much more interesting I think. 

Anyway I only date girls who listen to Penderecki.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ "Anyway I only date girls who listen to Penderecki."

You are indeed a lucky man........


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Tried a small experiment on a dating website last week. Made a profile with one of my better pictures and in the "About me" was honest with my musical tastes: said that I was mostly into classical, particularly Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, casually suggested in "first date" that we go to an Opera or symphony (among the more conventional movie, drinks, or dinner suggestions). Restrained myself from professing obsessive love for classical music, added that I was open to other genres of music, etc. Anyways after a few days I only got a handful of messages, all of which were very short, generic "hey how are you" - type messages I suspect are sent to everyone who pops up on their homepage.
> 
> Then I changed "classical music" to "rock" and suggested we take in a concert as opposed to an opera. Left it for the same number of days, and then checked back - I had gotten many more messages this time, most of which were personalized, asking which bands I was into, etc.
> 
> Should I conclude that at least classical-loving 20-somethings should stay closeted with their musical tastes until later into a relationship?


This is strange to me...I knew what music my girlfriend liked before I knew her gender.


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ "Anyway I only date girls who listen to Penderecki."
> 
> You are indeed a lucky man........


I would be if I met any


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> This is strange to me...I knew what music my girlfriend liked before I knew her gender.


Ah, is she a jellyfish thing too...........


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Ah, is she a jellyfish thing too...........


Lol! Maybe...haha. :lol:
You can see the evidence in my visitor messages anyway.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Schubussy said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMzFvKuZusE
> 4 million views. Although I doubt any of them listen to anything past 'Clair De Lune'. A Schoenberg meets Twilight video would have been much more interesting I think.


this reminds me of all those 50 shades readers who got into light classical because of that. The Flower Duet was particularly abused by the 50 shaders.

as for the subject of long term dating and music, if your tastes differ too much you end up with less things to talk about. Of course, when you're just looking to get some tail the both of you will end up lying through your teeth about how much you like whatever the other is praising to high heavens :devil:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

That's really sad... Personally, looking back to the time when I did not care for classical music, I think, a dating profile which classical music among his interests would still stand out for me among others, because it implies qualities like "cultured", "gentlemanly" and simply "different and non-mainstream" (though of course that's not always true, hehe). Of course I would not fall in love with someone simply for liking classical music, but I would surely want to find out more about him.

And it's not so much about the finer things in life, as about one's ability to think and explore things for himself, not falling in with the crowd or falling to the lowest common denominator of pop culture. 

Forgot to say I am in my twenties too.


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