# I Love Lang Lang



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

His attention to detail is very different than Gould's but just as refined, imo. Very theatrical performer, and I love his dynamics. I really dislike over-emphasized fortes.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Ok. Could you provide an example?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DeepR said:


> Ok. Could you provide an example?


Anything he's done, really, I think he's very clever. I love his interpretations, really!

I'm watching this now:


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I think that he wants too badly to be pop and is rather cold, and much prefer other pianists such as not only Gould but also Goode, Richter, Schiff, Ashkenazy, Brendel and many others, but for each his own.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Allerius said:


> I think that he wants too badly to be pop and is rather cold, and much prefer other pianists such as not only Gould but also Goode, Richter, Schiff, Ashkenazy, Brendel and many others, but for each his own.


I say great if he can bring Classical to the mainstream. Yes some of his gestures are a bit over the top, but it makes the performance more interesting and helps the audience understand how he is trying to interpret the piece.

I do think his touch and interpretations are genius!


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I say great if he can bring Classical to the mainstream. Yes some of his gestures are a bit over the top, but it makes the performance more interesting and helps the audience understand how he is trying to interpret the piece.
> 
> I do think his touch and interpretations are genius!


I don't know that they're genius, but there's no doubt that he is technically extremely gifted. I've followed Lang Lang since he appeared on the scene. I remember the video of the master class he took from Barenboim. He tends to play adagios at a slower tempo which I like more than not.

While he always had somewhat accentuated facial machinations, the flamboyant gestures came later. It's now at the point where the gestures and overall physical presentation sometimes affects the interpretation -in live performances- and reminds of the old Liberace shows. Take for example the following where rests are accentuated and/or inserted and he presents the work as primarily a showpiece:






However, while I was initially bothered when Lang Lang started down that road, I've come to agree with you that if it brings out the crowds and makes the music and the performance more accessible and perhaps more attractive to the segment of the audience less familiar with CM then I'm fine with it. But, just as long as it doesn't creep into his studio recordings which some people think it does.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> His attention to detail is very different than Gould's but just as refined, imo. Very theatrical performer, and I love his dynamics. I really dislike over-emphasized fortes.


Have a listen to his K 491 with Harnoncourt and tell me what you think


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> I don't know that they're genius, but there's no doubt that he is technically extremely gifted. I've followed Lang Lang since he appeared on the scene. I remember the video of the master class he took from Barenboim. He tends to play adagios at a slower tempo which I like more than not.
> 
> While he always had somewhat accentuated facial machinations, the flamboyant gestures came later. It's now at the point where the gestures and overall physical presentation sometimes affects the interpretation -in live performances- and reminds of the old Liberace shows. Take for example the following where rests are accentuated and/or inserted and he presents the work as primarily a showpiece:
> 
> ...


I don't hear any effect on his albums that I checked out today!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

You know, I actually don't think he's faking his gestures...there was a period when he was forcing them a bit too much, but overall, they really accentuate how he is interpreting the pieces.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> You know, I actually don't think he's faking his gestures...there was a period when he was forcing them a bit too much, but overall, they really accentuate how he is interpreting the pieces.


Well, the raising the hand high in the air and holding it for a millisecond -as at 1:35 in the recording above and several times thereafter- is right out of the Liberace playbook and I don't know of any other pianist that does it these days.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> Well, the raising the hand high in the air and holding it for a millisecond is right out of the Liberace playbook and I don't know of any other pianist that does it.


hahaha, !!!!!!!!!!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I saw an instance of his "loud" playing, and it reminded me of Gary Graffman playing Prokofiev (too bad that vinyl's OOP). It turns out he studied with him (something about the Curtis Institute). It appeared to me that he was using "chi" energy when he was hitting the loudest notes. Maybe it's just me, but I find this possibility intriguing. His facial gestures are very pleasant to me. He never lets you forget that he needs you, and is communicating with you. He's not off in some world of his own, communing with the composer's spirit. Or maybe he's channeling those spirits...he "presents" the work to you. That's flattering, and well worth a quarter. And yes, I did catch a little bit of Liberace in there...but at least he seems sincere, not jaded or calculated. If he really thinks that Liberace has that much street-cred in the US, then that's naive and touching in its innocence. But I'm rambling...

The Tchaikovsky presented as a showpiece? Yes, he is showing us how important he thinks of it...it's a very important piece, with international resonances, as we remember Van Cliburn's triumphant performance and subsequent ticker-tape parade in New York. Surely Lang Lang saw this, and was as profoundly moved as we were that music could be this important and meaningful. If he is channeling Van Cliburn, then more power to him. He wants to draw on the archetypal power of this Concerto, and on us as a nation, as a people...he wants to win us over, as Americans.
He's communicating with the orchestra, as well...the way he looks back expectantly at them, eyes wide, waiting for their answer. He gets you involved, for sure. And at around 17:00, he can be playful where it is appropriate. All in all, a consummate performer and "being" whose purpose is to deliver beauty and communicate! Yes, the gestures are theatrical, but music is the movement of "being" through time. He is totally involved to the core of his being, so we need not fear, we can relax...we are in the hands of a true master.
And at the end, he seems to have forgotten about himself...it's all about the conductor and orchestra, how thrilled he is that "we all" pulled it off...audience included. He is going to greatness, and we can be along for the ride.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I have listened to six performances from Lang Lang. Half were very impressive, two were good interpretations, and the last was unobjectionable. Try his Mozart Piano Sonata No. 10 for one that impressed me.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Hit and miss. Not the mark of a great pianist really. I wouldn't be able to pick him out from a blind test. He's no Samson François...but then who is?


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

When I took up classical music seriously a few years ago, I loved him, but since I got more experienced, started to discover other pianists eg Stephen Hough, Murray Perahia. Realised that they were quality. Lang Lang is OK as a beginners musician but feel as though I have moved on


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm so excited by the performance, and so lucky to be able to experience it with joy, that I forgot all other things. I am like a child who is overwhelmed by joy. Yes, I am just like a slobbering little baby, who is giggling. I lay on my back, helpless and smiling. :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Judith said:


> When I took up classical music seriously a few years ago, I loved him, but since I got more experienced, started to discover other pianists eg Stephen Hough, Murray Perahia. Realised that they were quality. Lang Lang is OK as a beginners musician but feel as though I have moved on


Sorry you feel that way....but to each their own, I really love his interpretations and tone, I love everything about the man.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

O Captain, my Captain, _you & I_ know the joy of music!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I am shocked - _shocked _I say! - to see people on this forum saying nice things about Lang Lang. As some Nobel laureate or other once noted, "The times they are a-changin'."


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

The oceans swell, the tides come in & go out. And then you die.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Lang Lang is talking to me now, so I will engage. 

I will bend like a willow branch. 

If I am surprised, I am like a stone being splashed by water.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Here is Lang Lang playing the Beethoven #3 sonata Adagio. This is the way it should be played with the opening melody fleshed out and the rest of the movement played with reverence. His tone is excellent and there are no histrionics. This is one of Beethoven's most underrated sonata movements.






My guess is that Lang Lang has been strongly influenced by Daniel Barenboim. Listen to the similarity, the tempo being almost exactly the same.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> The oceans swell, the tides come in & go out. And then you die.


Unless you have a life jacket on, then it might be okay.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

He reminds me of why I always prefer to sit on the keyboard side of the hall ... not because I want to be able to watch the pianists hands but because I do not want to have to see their facial contortions!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

eugeneonagain said:


> Unless you have a life jacket on, then it might be okay.


Maybe; or you might freeze to death, or get eaten by sharks. It is touching to see your child-like faith in Man-made accoutrements.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

An opposite feeling from this youtuber :






BTW, I don't love nor hate Lang Lang.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Becca said:


> He reminds me of why I always prefer to sit on the keyboard side of the hall ... not because I want to be able to watch the pianists hands but because I do not want to have to see their facial contortions!


What if you were sitting on the front row, and Lang Lang slung some sweat on you?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

jdec said:


> BTW, I don't love nor hate Lang Lang.


With the posting of this video, it certainly appears that you are working for the other side!


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I always seem to remember his first name, but not the last.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> With the posting of this video, it certainly appears that you are working for the other side!


Not really, I incidentally found that video and found it kind of funny, specially for Horowitz's appearance at the end. I don't hate Lang Lang, I'm just indifferent to him.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I heard Horowitz liked to cross-dress. My theory, based on that, is that Horowitz did not feel like he could "be himself" while playing the piano, so he repressed his personality. This is a form of trans-gender dysphoria, a type of mood disturbance. Are you saying that Horowitz' non-committal performances, lacking in spontaneous facial gestures, are "normal" compared to Lang Lang's?

Perhaps you would prefer this:


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Perhaps you would prefer this:


It depends.

.......


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Well, when you think about it, Lang Lang is no more ridiculous than anybody else. There's always going to be a "distracting element of humanity" in seeing live concert pianists...why should this be a factor in judging pianists on a purely musical basis? Those are two different things.
In Lang Lang's case, he seems to be able to use these extra-musical "human" factors to everyone's advantage, which ultimately enhances the musical experience. In Khatia Buniatishvili's case, does her attire really "enhance" the music, or merely distract?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> I heard Horowitz liked to cross-dress. My theory, based on that, is that Horowitz did not feel like he could "be himself" while playing the piano, so he repressed his personality. This is a form of trans-gender dysphoria, a type of mood disturbance. Are you saying that Horowitz' non-committal performances, lacking in spontaneous facial gestures, are "normal" compared to Lang Lang's?
> 
> Perhaps you would prefer this:


You present a couple of good points.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Lang Lang has incurred the wrath of the classical music establishment for two sins: first he is a showman, which the sniffy abhor, as they have this ridiculous theory that 'nothing must come between the music and the audience' - a complete fallacy. His second, and more unforgivable sin, is that he is a successful and popular showman, so we must throw our hands up in horror and dish out the dirt on him. But whatever the establishment thinks, Lang Lang brings in the punters to classical music while the establishment drives them away


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Lang Lang has incurred the wrath of the classical music establishment for two sins: first he is a showman, which the sniffy abhor, as they have this ridiculous theory that 'nothing must come between the music and the audience' - a complete fallacy.


This is the classical theory of "direct transmission of the gospel" from composer to listener. Since this is the template of conservative Classical music, Lang Lang is certainly at a disadvantage to older purists who believe this gospel of "the composer at the top," since he puts emphasis on performance and communication.

Ah, but we are so much younger than they are. We place importance on the performer, and don't mind if they "put on a show."


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> Maybe; or you might freeze to death, or get eaten by sharks. It is touching to see your child-like faith in Man-made accoutrements.


As the shark approaches will you eschew being pulled out of the water into the wretched accoutrement of a 'man-made' boat? Being 'at one' in the water will end when the shark gets to you. Not all sharks are looking for _un repas humain_ though; or so simple artificial knowledge informs me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Lang Lang has incurred the wrath of the classical music establishment for two sins: first he is a showman, which the sniffy abhor, as they have this ridiculous theory that 'nothing must come between the music and the audience' - a complete fallacy. His second, and more unforgivable sin, is that he is a successful and popular showman, so we must throw our hands up in horror and dish out the dirt on him. But whatever the establishment thinks, Lang Lang brings in the punters to classical music while the establishment drives them away


Exactly, extremely well put sir! The establishment does not love their art form, but their snobby mindset, Lang Lang, like Gould, loves the Art and the music.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> *This is the classical theory of "direct transmission of the gospel" from composer to listener. *Since this is the template of conservative Classical music, Lang Lang is certainly at a disadvantage to older purists who believe this gospel of "the composer at the top," since he puts emphasis on performance and communication.
> 
> Ah, but we are so much younger than they are. We place importance on the performer, and don't mind if they "put on a show."


Just when did composers believe this? Bach, Beethoven and their improvisations? Liszt? They were creative musicians


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I heard LL on the radio playing some Chopin and thought it sounded reasonable which is what I would expect from someone who lived his childhood chained to a piano for 8 hours a day. I've also heard some Beethoven which was played ok.

He is technically excellent and has traded on his charming smile and a karate kick or two and catchy name - there's market for one such performer but not two thank goodness.

I think in truth he is probably not in the top 100 pianists in the world today - maybe not the top 500. I would take any graduate from a Russian conservatoire over him because I just don't believe he has strong interpretative powers.

I'm afraid that the most famous musicians do not always deserve to be where they are relative to many obscure colleagues who play much better. But that I am afraid - is music.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

stomanek said:


> I think in truth he is probably not in the top 100 pianists in the world today - maybe not the top 500.


I'm not familiar enough with the 500 pianists (allegedly) above him. Who would they be?


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Lang Lang has incurred the wrath of the classical music establishment for two sins: first he is a showman, which the sniffy abhor, as they have this ridiculous theory that 'nothing must come between the music and the audience' - a complete fallacy. His second, and more unforgivable sin, is that he is a successful and popular showman, so we must throw our hands up in horror and dish out the dirt on him. But whatever the establishment thinks, Lang Lang brings in the punters to classical music while the establishment drives them away


In my case: I don't care for the "classical music establishment", I just don't like him as a pianist.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DaveM said:


> I don't know that they're genius, but there's no doubt that he is technically extremely gifted. I've followed Lang Lang since he appeared on the scene. I remember the video of the master class he took from Barenboim. He tends to play adagios at a slower tempo which I like more than not.
> 
> While he always had somewhat accentuated facial machinations, the flamboyant gestures came later. It's now at the point where the gestures and overall physical presentation sometimes affects the interpretation -in live performances- and reminds of the old Liberace shows. *Take for example the following where rests are accentuated and/or inserted and he presents the work as primarily a showpiece:*


I've heard Lang Lang on recordings and enjoyed some of them greatly. I don't find this reading of the Tchaikovsky at all overinflected. Right from the beginning, I hear him as exceptionally attentive to the music: everything is thought-out, his pacing and articulation keep me at attention, there's no doubt that he has a personal response to every musical gesture, and so the thrice-familiar piece is fresh again. Surely this is what Romantic pianism is all about. He deserved his first-movement applause.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

The evaluation of Lang Lang’s work in some quarters reminds somewhat of that of Pogorelich years ago not because of eccentric manners in performances, but because of interpretation, particularly slow tempos, as in the Beethoven Op111.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I've heard Lang Lang on recordings and enjoyed some of them greatly. I don't find this reading of the Tchaikovsky at all overinflected. Right from the beginning, I hear him as exceptionally attentive to the music: everything is thought-out, his pacing and articulation keep me at attention, there's no doubt that he has a personal response to every musical gesture, and so the thrice-familiar piece is fresh again. Surely this is what Romantic pianism is all about. He deserved his first-movement applause.


You're just a sucker for Romantic pianism. Come to think of it, so am I.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> You're just a sucker for Romantic pianism. Come to think of it, so am I.


I also Love Danill Trifinov (sp). His Romantic version of Mozart's Fantasy is amazing to my ears!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I dislike Lang Lang. They play him a lot on the radio, and I wonder who is the pianist that seems to be missing the music, and then they announce it is him. Yuja also leaves me cold. I found Lang's Mozart concertos to be surprising, though.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DaveM said:


> I'm not familiar enough with the 500 pianists (allegedly) above him. Who would they be?


The vast bulk of piano teachers at the 4 London music colleges just for starters and there must be at least 100 if you include the junior departments. I have heard several of them play and I have also attended various concerts at conservatoires and heard better pianists than Lang Lang and these are musicians who are more or less unknown. Can I provide you with a list of 500 pianists - no. But you are missing my point - Lang Lang is not that good. He is not worth the hype and has become a marketing phenomenon. Some are marketing phenomenons too - like N Benedetti - the difference is she is good.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> The vast bulk of piano teachers at the 4 London music colleges just for starters and there must be at least 100 if you include the junior departments. I have heard several of them play and I have also attended various concerts at conservatoires and heard better pianists than Lang Lang and these are musicians who are more or less unknown. Can I provide you with a list of 500 pianists - no. But you are missing my point - *Lang Lang is not that good.* He is not worth the hype and has become a marketing phenomenon. Some are marketing phenomenons too - like N Benedetti - the difference is she is good.


Unfortunately there are many millions who disagree. Including musicians like Fanny Waterman!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I also Love Danill Trifinov (sp). His Romantic version of Mozart's Fantasy is amazing to my ears!


He drags it through the mud a bit.

This is what happens when someone who really specialises in romantic pieces plays a mozart minor key piece.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Unfortunately there are many millions who disagree. Including musicians like Fanny Waterman!


Whose opinion is worth no more than mine.

In public Lang Langs colleagues will say - he is so wonderful I love Lang Lang

what do you expect them to say?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

stomanek said:


> The vast bulk of piano teachers at the 4 London music colleges just for starters and there must be at least 100 if you include the junior departments. I have heard several of them play and I have also attended various concerts at conservatoires and heard better pianists than Lang Lang and these are musicians who are more or less unknown. Can I provide you with a list of 500 pianists - no. But you are missing my point - Lang Lang is not that good. He is not worth the hype and has become a marketing phenomenon. Some are marketing phenomenons too - like N Benedetti - the difference is she is good.


So the alleged 500 pianists was just hyperbole. I didn't miss your point. I just don't agree with it or the bit about 500 pianists. I don't like every Lang Lang interpretation, but the fact is that he does not always play or sound the same. In the Tchaikovsky I posted he is very theatric and playing to the crowd. In the Beethoven I posted, the presentation is quite different. If I were to play you 10 different unlabeled recordings of well-known piano soloists, one of them being Lang Lang, I would bet that you couldn't pick him out, just as I'm sure that you are missing out on some great symphony movements.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> *Whose opinion is worth no more than mine.
> *
> In public Lang Langs colleagues will say - he is so wonderful I love Lang Lang
> 
> what do you expect them to say?


To be honest I would have to give Fanny Waterman's opinion more weight than yours, with all due respect. The thing was you 'Lang Lang is not that good'. That is just not right. You don't think Waterman with her years of experience would have appointed someone as ambassador of the Leeds Competition if he wasn't that good? If you say you don't like his style of playing then that's fine. That's an opinion.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Have a listen to his K 491 with Harnoncourt and tell me what you think


Well, I don't mind commenting on it, albeit for memory. It certainly isn't one of my favourites of K491 - I find some of it a bit mannered - but I didn't hate it at all. It is quite distinctive (not bland) and is quite a relaxed account if I remember correctly. It certainly seems to work as a whole.

Lang Lang is far from being my favourite pianist but I don't really get why so many actively hate his work. Yes, he can be a bit showy visually. And, yes, I suppose you might think that his popularity is greater than he deserves. But I do think of him as a serious musician and would not rule out the possibility of his producing great work.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> To be honest I would have to give Fanny Waterman's opinion more weight than yours, with all due respect. The thing was you 'Lang Lang is not that good'. That is just not right. You don't think Waterman with her years of experience would have appointed someone as ambassador of the Leeds Competition if he wasn't that good? If you say you don't like his style of playing then that's fine. That's an opinion.


I expect that she would select on multiple criteria not just playing ability. Lang Lang is very popular and there is the perception that he is a good thing for the classical music business.

There is copious amounts of criticism on Lang Lang's playing and from greater authorities than me.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DaveM said:


> So the alleged 500 pianists was just hyperbole. I didn't miss your point. I just don't agree with it or the bit about 500 pianists. I don't like every Lang Lang interpretation, but the fact is that he does not always play or sound the same. In the Tchaikovsky I posted he is very theatric and playing to the crowd. In the Beethoven I posted, the presentation is quite different. If I were to play you 10 different unlabeled recordings of well-known piano soloists, one of them being Lang Lang, *I would bet that you couldn't pick him out,* just as I'm sure that you are missing out on some great symphony movements.


Well that's a claim - and how do you suggest we put it to the test?

That Lang Lang is as whimsical in his art as you suggest is not a virtue. True pros leave nothing to chance or mood.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> I expect that she would select on multiple criteria not just playing ability. Lang Lang is very popular and there is the perception that he is a good thing for the classical music business.
> 
> *There is copious amounts of criticism on Lang Lang's playing and from greater authorities than me.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, often from people who can't play themselves! :lol:


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

DaveM said:


> So the alleged 500 pianists was just hyperbole. I didn't miss your point. I just don't agree with it or the bit about 500 pianists. I don't like every Lang Lang interpretation, but the fact is that he does not always play or sound the same. In the Tchaikovsky I posted he is very theatric and playing to the crowd. In the Beethoven I posted, the presentation is quite different.*If I were to play you 10 different unlabeled recordings of well-known piano soloists, one of them being Lang Lang, I would bet that you couldn't pick him out*, just as I'm sure that you are missing out on some great symphony movements.


I think that it would be quite interesting actually if someone did a poll with a blind comparison between famous contemporary pianists such as Mr. Lang, Lisitsa, Pletnev, Ohlsson and others. I would prefer a solo piano piece to compare so I wouldn't be influenced by the orchestra.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

millionrainbows said:


> This is the classical theory of "direct transmission of the gospel" from composer to listener. Since this is the template of conservative Classical music, Lang Lang is certainly at a disadvantage to older purists who believe this gospel of "the composer at the top," since he puts emphasis on performance and communication.
> 
> Ah, but we are so much younger than they are. We place importance on the performer, and don't mind if they "put on a show."


I bet that I'm younger than you are and Lang's still not my cup of tea. I may reconsider though.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

stomanek said:


> He drags it through the mud a bit.
> 
> This is what happens when someone who really specialises in romantic pieces plays a mozart minor key piece.


you seem more like a you care about following what was intended instead of taking liberties like Gould promoted.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

stomanek said:


> He drags it through the mud a bit.
> 
> This is what happens when someone who really specialises in romantic pieces plays a mozart minor key piece.


Agree with Stomanek here. There is no subtlety or restraint. While trying to milk everything of each note, the music is stretched pretty thin. Here is still a romantic version but with more colour and feeling to me.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Agree with Stomanek here. There is no subtlety or restraint. While trying to milk everything of each note, the music is stretched pretty thin. Here is still a romantic version but with more colour and feeling to me.


Yes, de la Rocha is more insightful here than Trifonov to my ears too.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> stomanek said:
> 
> 
> > I expect that she would select on multiple criteria not just playing ability. Lang Lang is very popular and there is the perception that he is a good thing for the classical music business.
> ...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I don’t believe that one has to play the piano to evaluate the interpretation of performances, but it does help in appreciating the technique and competence of a performer. For instance, anyone who, as myself, has played piano for years as a strict amateur can appreciate how difficult it is to play a work with excellent tone slowly such as Trifonov in the Mozart above or Lang Lang in the Beethoven.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> DavidA said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying you have to be a skilled pianist to have a valid point of view in this case re Lang Lang's playing?
> ...


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Good technique, but I do not care for his intepretations.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> stomanek said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, you are not thinking as a pianist. I have no problem with you not liking his playing but saying he's not a good pianist when he has that pair of hands is like the folks who went on (much the same) about Horowitz.
> ...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> DavidA said:
> 
> 
> > I said he's not that good I didnt say he wasnt a good pianist. I acknowledge that he has excellent technical skills.
> ...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> DavidA said:
> 
> 
> > I said he's not that good I didnt say he wasnt a good pianist. I acknowledge that he has excellent technical skills.
> ...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

stomanek said:


> I said he's not that good I didnt say he wasnt a good pianist. I acknowledge that he has excellent technical skills.


_
'I said he's not that good I didnt say he wasnt a good pianist'_

'W-h-a-a-a-t-t-t??


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> DavidA said:
> 
> 
> > I said he's not that good I didnt say he wasnt a good pianist. I acknowledge that he has excellent technical skills.
> ...


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Can you two not use the simple quote function?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

eugeneonagain said:


> Can you two not use the simple quote function?


Maybe there's an echo in here.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Captainnumber36 said:


> His attention to detail is very different than Gould's but just as refined, imo. Very theatrical performer, and I love his dynamics. I really dislike over-emphasized fortes.


I like his playing, and have a two disc compilation which I recently listened to:

https://www.talkclassical.com/54083-current-listening-vol-v-843.html#post1531658

He plays a variety of music well, from the classics to film, crossover, Chinese and contemporary classical. The concerto by Nigel Hess is a perfect vehicle for his abilities. I think Lang Lang goes beyond being mere 15 seconds of fame material, even though he's undoubtedly a celebrity, his shining moment playing the theme song at the opening of the Beijing Olympics.

I've read his autobiography and I admire his determination to succeed in life. Coming from an ordinary family with no connections to the political or economic elites of China, his talent was recognised early and his parents spared no effort in nurturing it. His father was in a military band and later a police officer, his mother was a switchboard operator. They where no strangers to real hardship, and the years when he did further study in Beijing where very difficult. Lang Lang's father accompanied him but had to give up his job, so they where supported by his mother and any donations they could get. Once he started winning local competitions, the world outside China beckoned, and initially he went to Germany and finally to the USA. He gained entry to study at Curtis under Gary Graffman.

Lang Lang made his first big appearance at the Ravinia Festival, filling in for a pianist who made a last minute cancellation. He played under Christoph Eschenbach who became a firm supporter. More engagements followed, eventually Carnegie Hall and a recording contract. Ironically, once this all happened the Chinese establishment became interested in his career. They welcomed Lang Lang back as their hero, a person who they hadn't sponsored. Lang Lang had to raise funds privately to get overseas.

In terms of criticism there was the usual honeymoon period. Some of the same people who had praised him ended up weighing into him for various reasons. Eschenbach was furious, Lang Lang's father said he should listen to the critics, Graffmann said something along the lines of any publicity is good publicity. Lang Lang put his position on critics in the following quote (its the full paragraph of the extract I put on the above link)-

"How can a critic tell me what Tchaikovsky had in mind when that critic has never met Tchaikovsky? How can anyone know how Rachmaninoff intended a piece to be played? We are all interpreting a text. There are no literal instructions, for example, for how hard to press the keys or how emotionally or unemotionally to employ rubato. Playing music is not rocket science. It is poetry, romance. Musically, how do you convey longing? Anger? Fear? Jubilation? Confusion? Clarity? You look at the text, you look inside yourself, and you come up with interpretation. Yes, that interpretation is born out of something that has been written by someone you don't know; but your interpretation must be the genuine manifestation of something you do know: human emotion."

Its not a problem if a performer has a less than orthodox take on a piece of music. There are many anecdotes of composers saying they enjoyed performances of their work when done in ways which they had never envisaged. Rachmaninov said this of Horowitz, Shostakovich of Bernstein, Bartok of Menuhin. Lang Lang is no different, the best performers will put something of themselves into the music while staying as faithful as possible to the score. In any case, the dividing line between the two isn't so clear cut.

As for his theatrics, even though I enjoy listening to him I don't want to see Lang Lang playing. I can think of a number of pianists who do this, and yet they are not criticised for it. I won't name names, because I believe its akin to criticising a mechanic for the way in which he moves when fixing your car. I see it as a side issue. As for what he wears, I don't mind a bit of flamboyance in that regard, but again its not the most important thing to me.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't love Lang Lang. It has nothing to do with his visual mannerisms which I've only seen once. I go by the recordings, and I don't hear anything special or commanding.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Bulldog said:


> I don't love Lang Lang. It has nothing to do with his visual mannerisms which I've only seen once. I go by the recordings, and I don't hear anything special or commanding.


Pretty much this. It's amusing how often people say the only single reason anyone ever dislikes Lang Lang is because they dislike his visual mannerisms (rather than his interpretations, which is usually the real reason).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

pjang23 said:


> Good technique,


Is it true that Lang Lang fakes; plays 'easier versions' of technically difficult sections in Liszt, as Richard Kastle claims?


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

pjang23 said:


> Pretty much this. It's amusing how often people say the only single reason anyone ever dislikes Lang Lang is because they dislike his visual mannerisms (rather than his interpretations, which is usually the real reason).


I cant stand watching Uchida's expressions etc and I hate the way she moves at the KB

but she is worth listening to.

The only thing that matters is quality of playing

I remember a music comp for young people I was at a while ago - Nicholas Daniels )oboist) was the adjudicator. There was a talented young violinist who played the Monti csardas and he was doing all sorts of showmanship stuff before during and after. The adjudicator said - you dont have to add to the music - you play well - just play - nothing else is necessary.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> Is it true that Lang Lang fakes; plays 'easier versions' of technically difficult sections in Liszt, as Richard Kastle claims?


Though I accept his view of Lang Lang as 'the B team from China) he may be exaggerating about himself somewhat. There is another video on youtube of several virtuosi playing the passage he cites - with Kastle in the list - and his performance is definitely worse than Rachmaninov's, Cziffra's and Maksim Mrvica's. Jung Lin also plays well.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I have none of his recordings. I think he's fun. More power to him.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

I don't give a damn about an artist's gestures or facial expressions when performing - if I don't like it I just close my eyes and listen - not a big deal.

I only have one cd with Lang Lang. A recording on DG of Mendelssohn's first piano concerto coupled with Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto both with Barenboim conducting. The Mendelssohn is quite interesting because it is so much HEAVIER than any other recording I have ever heard of that work. - It isn't necessarily the best recording ever made, but it's just so different - sort of like Mendelssohn's first piano concerto played like the first Brahms piano concerto or something like that.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> I dislike Lang Lang. They play him a lot on the radio, and I wonder who is the pianist that seems to be missing the music, and then they announce it is him. Yuja also leaves me cold. I found Lang's Mozart concertos to be surprising, though.


Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.

Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


I think she's great. Her concerts have become 'happenings' and the more of that, the better for classical music. What she's doing is a smart career move: Her performing calendar is full and you can't say that about all other talented pianists. It would be different if she was a marginal talent, but she's not, by any stretch. There will be time enough for her to dress conservatively as age progresses.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


A couple of years ago, the Philadelphia Inquirer called her performance there a "****walk." I thought she looked pretty good myself.

Last week I was arrested. The cop said, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say may be held against you." I said, "Yuja Wang!"


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


I think the real issue is she doesn't really pull it off.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hammeredklavier said:


> Is it true that Lang Lang fakes; plays 'easier versions' of technically difficult sections in Liszt, as Richard Kastle claims?


Really modest guy, claiming he's better than, not just Lang Lang, but Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Hamelin, .... How come we have never heard of this guy?? :lol:

Amazing what jealousy does


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


A wonderful young female pianist gets all dolled up and presents a compelling performance - nothing disgusting about that. The stuffy attitudes on this board surprise me given it's the 21st century, not 1955.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


It was a youth concert, I believe. It's not disgusting. If she was a pop star we wouldn't blink. Just saving a bit on material costs!

It's just a test to see how well you concentrate on the playing! :lol:

Just a point - we are all so concentrated on the dress (or lack of it) that we missed the point she is playing the original version with broken chords.

Incidentally note her hair is tinged to match the dress. We have a complete visual as well as audio experience

Always amazing when we have someone who is pleasing audiences and bringing in the punters (especially among the young) we get complaints. Stunning virtuosity. Listen to that encore! I suppose Mr Kastle will complain she is 'faking' it!

One point - I just marvel at how she can walk in those heels - let alone play in them. Seems to defy the laws of physics.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Great video. Brings together two of my favourite passions: Tchaikovsky and the piano... or something.

Oh and the encore is fantastic.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

pcnog11 said:


> I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


I agree. In my opinion, she's there to play the piano, not to show her curves. At least not if what she's going to play _is not_ sexual, as I do believe that is the case with Tchaikovsky's concerto.

A lot of pop, hip hop and rock _is_ sexual, so for me there would be no problem for a person to dress like she did in a concert for those genres.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I think the real issue is she doesn't really pull it off.


Her dress?...........


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Allerius said:


> I agree. In my opinion, she's there to play the piano, not to show her curves. At least not if what she's going to play _is not_ sexual, as I do believe that is the case with Tchaikovsky's concerto.
> 
> A lot of pop, hip hop and rock _is_ sexual, so for me there would be no problem for a person to dress like she did in a concert for those genres.


I'm not following any of that. It's a performance. The idea is getting people to attend the performance. In a recent 60 Minutes, the new conductor of the New York Phil was introduced. He has had a record of building audiences, partly because of his obvious histrionics when conducting. Dudamel has done the same with the Los Angeles Phil and for the same reasons.

Of course, there's a sexual element when it comes to Yuja Wang. She's attractive. Big whoop! Women have fawned over conductors, pianists and violinists. The 60 Minutes episode referenced above mentioned the problem major orchestras are having getting people in the door and the fact that they have to find new ways to build audiences.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Allerius said:


> I agree. In my opinion, she's there to play the piano, not to show her curves. At least not if what she's going to play _is not_ sexual, as I do believe that is the case with Tchaikovsky's concerto.
> 
> A lot of pop, hip hop and rock _is_ sexual, so for me there would be no problem for a person to dress like she did in a concert for those genres.


I wonder how Tchaikovsky feel when he learn Yuja is playing his concerto in that dress. He could be rolling his eyes in his grave!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> I wonder how Tchaikovsky feel when he learn Yuja is playing his concerto in that dress. He could be rolling his eyes in his grave!


Or he could be rethinking his sexual preferences.  Anyway, I'm sure he'd rather see Yuja playing it than to read Hanslick's review again.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


Offence taken ... I thought we were getting past judging women by the way they choose to dress as opposed to their value as a person, an artist, etc.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

DaveM said:


> I'm not following any of that. It's a performance. The idea is getting people to attend the performance. In a recent 60 Minutes, the new conductor of the New York Phil was introduced. He has had a record of building audiences, partly because of his obvious histrionics when conducting. Dudamel has done the same with the Los Angeles Phil and for the same reasons.
> 
> Of course, there's a sexual element when it comes to Yuja Wang. She's attractive. Big whoop! Women have fawned over conductors, pianists and violinists. The 60 Minutes episode referenced above mentioned the problem major orchestras are having getting people in the door and the fact that they have to find new ways to build audiences.


I think the dress reflect the fashion taste of the musician and also what class he/she belongs to.

If you compare Yuja Wong and Khatia Buniatishvili, both dressed quite controversially. However, Khatia show some class in her dress. She always wears a gown rather than a mini skirt.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> If you compare Yuja Wong and Khatia Buniatishvili, both dressed quite controversially. However, Khatia show some class in her dress. She always wears a gown rather than a mini skirt.


Yuja Wang doesn't always wear a mini skirt...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> I think the dress reflect the fashion taste of the musician and also what class he/she belongs to.
> 
> If you compare Yuja Wong and Khatia Buniatishvili, both dressed quite controversially. However, Khatia show some class in her dress. She always wears a gown rather than a mini skirt.


Khatia shows off a lot more cleavage than Yuja because she's dressing with emphasis on her assets just as Yuja does. Pick your poison. It's all the same thing. There are enough conservative dressing performing women in classical music. It's nice to see something young, fresh and beautiful with talent to match.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Or he could be rethinking his sexual preferences.  Anyway, I'm sure he'd rather see Yuja playing it than to read Hanslick's review again.


It was Hanslick who tore the violin concerto apart. Rubinstein did not like the piano concerto


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> I think the dress reflect the fashion taste of the musician and also what class he/she belongs to.
> 
> If you compare Yuja Wong and Khatia Buniatishvili, both dressed quite controversially. However, Khatia show some class in her dress. She always wears a gown rather than a mini skirt.


What class she belongs to? Does this make her a working class girl because she wears a mini?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> I wonder how Tchaikovsky feel when he learn Yuja is playing his concerto in that dress. He could be rolling his eyes in his grave!


I think he'd be delighted a young girl could play it like that after Anton Rubinstein dissed it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> It was Hanslick who tore the violin concerto apart. Rubinstein did not like the piano concerto


Oh yeah, got that backwards!


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

DaveM said:


> I'm not following any of that. It's a performance. The idea is getting people to attend the performance. In a recent 60 Minutes, the new conductor of the New York Phil was introduced. He has had a record of building audiences, partly because of his obvious histrionics when conducting. Dudamel has done the same with the Los Angeles Phil and for the same reasons.
> 
> Of course, there's a sexual element when it comes to Yuja Wang. She's attractive. Big whoop! Women have fawned over conductors, pianists and violinists. The 60 Minutes episode referenced above mentioned the problem major orchestras are having getting people in the door and the fact that they have to find new ways to build audiences.


I don't get the idea that we have to make performances vulgar in order to get audience. This was never needed before, and I still think that it's not needed today. I think that people are attacking this problem in a wrong way.

In my opinion, the vision that a great deal of the public has of classical nowadays is biased to something bad because of how the media handles it. People are bombarded by it on ads, on elevator and gas music, on second rate movies and bad media. Would you take seriously the music that you listen to when you have to wait while on the phone or on the elevator? Or that which appears on a beer ad? I wouldn't. This persistent misuse of classical in the media has been conditioning people to think badly of it in my view.

The problem for me is not _because_ it appears, but _how_ it appears. The music just doesn't fit in the way that many people are using it in my opinion. When it does, it's a success. Look at _Amadeus_, _Fantasia_ or, more recently, _The King's Speech_. Or at the old cartoons of _Bugs Bunny_, _Woody Woodpecker_ and _Tom & Jerry_. People loved this kind of media, and by associating the music with it, we had an active public for classical.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Becca said:


> Offence taken ... I thought we were getting past judging women by the way they choose to dress as opposed to their value as a person, an artist, etc.


Pardon if I offended you somehow lady, but my point is that one shouldn't dress in a sexy manner for a social gathering that is not about anything sexual at all, and this can apply to both women and men.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

pcnog11 said:


> I wonder how Tchaikovsky feel when he learn Yuja is playing his concerto in that dress.


The man is dead.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Allerius said:


> I don't get the idea that we have to make performances vulgar in order to get audience. This was never needed before, and I still think that it's not needed today. I think that people are attacking this problem in a wrong way.
> 
> In my opinion, the vision that a great deal of the public has of classical nowadays is biased to something bad because of how the media handles it. People are bombarded by it on ads, on elevator and gas music, on second rate movies and bad media. Would you take seriously the music that you listen to when you have to wait while on the phone or on the elevator? Or that which appears on a beer ad? I wouldn't. This persistent misuse of classical in the media has been conditioning people to think badly of it in my view.
> 
> The problem for me is not _because_ it appears, but _how_ it appears. The music just doesn't fit in the way that many people are using it in my opinion. When it does, it's a success. Look at _Amadeus_, _Fantasia_ or, more recently, _The King's Speech_. Or at the old cartoons of _Bugs Bunny_, _Woody Woodpecker_ and _Tom & Jerry_. People loved this kind of media, and by associating the music with it, we had an active public for classical.


I don't think Yuja us dressing as she does to get an audience. She's doing it because she has an audience and wants to dress that way to wow them.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I don't think Yuja us dressing as she does to get an audience. She's doing it because she has an audience and wants to dress that way to wow them.


I think it's both. I doubt she would have the following she has if she was just pleasantly looking and dressed likewise. I'm not diminishing her talent -I find it to be excellent- but while she would still likely be popular, she wouldn't be the rock star she is. I admire the way she has 'packaged' herself. There was a 60 Minutes (or something similar) on her not long ago. Her life was going from hotel to hotel and practicing a good part of the time. Her repertoire is astounding and she must have a phenomenal memory.

She doesn't always wear the ultra-sexy outfits. I love this performance of the Mozart 2-Piano Concerto #10. This is one of the few times she is reading the music. I'm even surprised by her skill at turning her own pages!


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with dressing to impress, especially if you have the talent to match. Those who are more musically focused can watch the piano keys, conductor, or close their eyes.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> Both Lang Lang and Yuja crossed the line of being an artist in classical into superstar status of the younger generations. Maybe there is a market for it. Personally, I hate how Yuja dress when she goes on stage.
> 
> Please see this YouTube. I think it is disgusiting on how she is dressed. The venue is Carnegie Hall, she dressed like a "street walker" - no offence.


I'm getting tired of hearing "purist" listeners trying to divorce the performance aspect from the music.

That's old-school thinking, where the composer is elevated to the top of the hierarchy, as a disembodied "God" figure, and the music is "the holy gospel" which is to be abstracted-away from all performances, as a sort of Platonic ideal.

The living, breathing "being" of humanity is what makes all music come alive.

I would welcome the day when there are completely nude female pianists.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> I wonder how Tchaikovsky feel when he learn Yuja is playing his concerto in that dress. He could be rolling his eyes in his grave!


Yes, no doubt Tchaikovsky would have preferred seeing a young Van Cliburn in a jock strap!


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> Yes, no doubt Tchaikovsky would have preferred seeing a young Van Cliburn in a jock strap!


That would give new meaning to an artist packaging oneself.


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