# SS 02.05.20 - Schuman #3



## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*William Schuman (1910 - 1992)*

Symphony #3 

Part I:
Passacaglia
Fugue

Part II:
Chorale
Toccata
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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

This week we have William Schuman's Symphony no. 3. This is another of Koussevitzky's great commissions with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Although using baroque forms for the movements it is in Schuman's own modern language. Written in the middle of WW II it nevertheless has an optimistic outlook. I'll listen to the Bernstein's 1985 live recording with the New York Philharmonic.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

This is great! I think I will go with the Youtube of the 1998 performance by Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra, which I'm listening to now and liking a whole lot:


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Great piece!! The "Great American Symphony"...
Difficult to play, really major league challenge....
My longtime favorite is Bernstein/NYPO I from early 60s...Bernstein's 2nd effort with NYPO from 80s on DG is good, but LB1 has that all-out, "at the edge" excitement...
As good as, maybe better, is the Slatkin/CSO performance, live from c. '86 (Archival set - CSO in 20th Century)...tremendous performance....again with the all-out "swing for the fences" bravura that is so effective...
Both Bernstein I and Slatkin/CSO are awesome...wouldn't want to be without either...
I'd like to hear that Previn/LSO..


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

WILLIAM SCHUMAN Symphony No. 3
Berstein


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

cougarjuno said:


> This week we have William Schuman's Symphony no. 3. This is another of Koussevitzky's great commissions with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Although using baroque forms for the movements it is in Schuman's own modern language. Written in the middle of WW II it nevertheless has an optimistic outlook. I'll listen to the Bernstein's 1985 live recording with the New York Philharmonic.


And I shall go with this version


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

cougarjuno said:


>


I'll also go with this...


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I have this one so I'll go with it.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Bernstein for me.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ It has been a very long time since I heard it. A very impressive work. I'll try to play it a couple more times in the next few days to see if it grows more in my affections.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Glad to have had cause to revisit this symphony - I normally listen to the Harris Symphony on the same disc.
I enjoyed this more than I recall previously having done so - something to revisit soon.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Bernstein here too.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Schuman Sym #3 is one of my favorite pieces...many great features, but of special interest is his use of percussion....the closing section of Part I is heralded by a rousing, roof-rattling timpani solo, a famous excerpt, audition lick....then, in Part II, Schuman introduces the Toccata theme on snare drum!! Yes, snare drum!! Which lays out the rhythm and the form....bass clarinet the picks it up, another well-known audition lick. In the closing of Part II, again the snare drum is featured...the fast 6/8 part is suddenly enhanced by the rousing rimshots on snare drum, which punctuate the long crescendo in the winds and brass...Exciting stuff...Schuman 3 is certainly one of the great "wartime" symphonies in the whole repertoire...if you can, get Bernstein I, from 1960...the great Slatkin/CSO is not so readily available...


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## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

A favorite of mine; incredibly exciting music! Bernstein's first recording with the NYP for me.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Merl said:


> I have this one so I'll go with it.
> 
> View attachment 135122


I will go with this one


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Not really my cup of tea but find Bernstein's Live version more palatable. The strings on the 1st recording are a little too harsh for for my ears.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I was at a performance of the National Symphony when Slatkin was still the director.

It turns out Schuman made some cuts to the _Symphony_ after the premier based on suggestions from Koussevitzky. Most of the cuts were in the second movement. The original parts are maintained at the Library of Congress. Slatkin received permission from the Schuman's estate to preform the original. Wow. With the restored sections the _Symphony_ is even more effective. The Circle Critics award was for the original. Joseph Polisi discussed these cuts in his biography of Schuman.

Since I started playing the bass clarinet again I had to learn that awesome solo.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Merl said:


> I have this one so I'll go with it.
> 
> View attachment 135122


I prefer this one too.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

My choice:


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Seems to be a popular choice.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Seems to be a popular choice.


That's Bernstein I...an excellent choice.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Listened to Bernstein's first recording. I thought I’d heard this before but I guess not. Was I thinking of Roy Harris’s 3rd? Maybe so. Anyway…

It’s big and noisy (most of it) and more than a little bit rowdy. It has the sound of a lot of American music in the mid-century – not Coplandish exactly, but certainly optimistic and brooking no doubt or hesitation. There’s no soul-searching here, no pauses for deep reflection, no shadows stealing over the sun a la Mozart. Subtle, it’s not.

Well, the Chorale section seems reserved and maybe a little sad, but it has a sense of formality that makes it seem those emotions are merely being written about and not really experienced by either the author or the listener. In any event the exuberant final Toccata banishes any questions with a blaze of glorious noise. Listen throughout the symphony for several impressive solo passages. I was particularly struck by percussion, flute, and trumpet solos.

A very good symphony of a moderately modern persuasion, quite satisfying and a fine listen – and certainly worthy of repeat hearings.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

What a wonderful symphony! I'm so glad to have had this introduction to it. Before this week I've only known Schuman through his Song of Orpheus. I find the rhythms and orchestral textures in his Symphony No. 3 sometimes similar to Hindemith and Bernard Herrmann, whose work I know better than Schuman's. I'm looking forward to buying a recording of this work and to delving further into Schuman.


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## sstucky (Apr 4, 2020)

The greatest American symphony. Bernstein 1960 beats all other performances. Ormandy actually recorded it in 1951.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

sstucky said:


> The greatest American symphony. Bernstein 1960 beats all other performances. Ormandy actually recorded it in 1951.


Yes, it's my pick for "Great American Symphony"...Bernstein I is a terrific recording...so is Slatkin/CSO live from 1986 [_CSO - Archival Set - CSO in 20 the Century_] - both performances are totally superb. Wouldn't want to be without either.

I've never heard the Ormandy....I have the Schuman 6 he did in the 50s...it's good....not fantastic.


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## sstucky (Apr 4, 2020)

I didn’t know that the Ormandy existed until I found the LP in a secondhand bookstore. It is interesting; he takes the Toccata faster than Bernstein, but the rim shots at the end are pallid compared to LB’s thwacks.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

sstucky said:


> I didn't know that the Ormandy existed until I found the LP in a secondhand bookstore. It is interesting; he takes the Toccata faster than Bernstein, but the rim shots at the end are pallid compared to LB's thwacks.


Schuman 3 really requires a "heavy metal" orchestra to do it justice....there are some huge sonorities, the closing section of Part I, and the final section of Part II....Chicago and NYPO are certainly top candidates for the job....I'd like to hear the Ormandy, Schwarz/Seattle and the Previn/LSO efforts


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

It's nice to have a thread on Schuman, who wrote some very fine symphonies, shorter works, too....his #3 is probably his greatest (he withdrew the first two), but the rest are very powerful as well...a little tougher to realize than #3, but well worth the effort...
Also, it's nice to have an orchestral thread that, hopefully, won't degenerate into yet another karajan/furtwangler episode...


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## sstucky (Apr 4, 2020)

There is a 1938 radio recording of his No. 2 in the archives of the University of Texas. They made a copy for me for a hefty price. It is not a crowd pleaser. One movement, about 18 minutes, lots of pedal point and dissonance. A few moments toward the end that sound like Roy Harris. The recording is very poor with some total dropouts. It is amazing how much he matured in three years.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

sstucky said:


> There is a 1938 radio recording of his No. 2 in the archives of the University of Texas. They made a copy for me for a hefty price. It is not a crowd pleaser. One movement, about 18 minutes, lots of pedal point and dissonance. A few moments toward the end that sound like Roy Harris. The recording is very poor with some total dropouts. It is amazing how much he matured in three years.


Interesting!! Schuman did study with Harris, so the similarity is not surprising....the pedal points were to become something of a trademark, and Schuman uses it to great effect in Sym #3...I guess the first 2 symphonies actrually did get performed, but he withdrew them....


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

My favourite Schumann "Symphony No 3" (and Schumann "cycle" for that matter) is Franz Konwitschny's with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. Should be better known.






The Cd's from ETERNA or Berlin Classics are a veritable bargain. Can be found used for close to no money. Whole-heartedly recommended.

Tennstedt/Berliner Phil/1978's a passionate reading as well.

Regards,

Vincula


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

My favourite Schumann "Symphony No 3" (and Schumann "cycle" for that matter) is Franz Konwitschny's with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. Should be better known.






The Cd's from ETERNA or Berlin Classics are a veritable bargain. Can be found used for close to no money. Whole-heartedly recommended.

Tennstedt/Berliner Phil/1978's a passionate reading as well.

Regards,

Vincula


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Robert Schumann Sym #3 is an excellent work...
The subject of this thread is William Schuman Sym #3, which is an even better work...


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

LOL! I had an undergrad professor who taught a 20th Century music history class. He told us the story he says every year on the first day of class:_ Students! On the final exam, there will be the following question: TRUE or FALSE? Robert Schumann was an American 20th century composer. The answer is FALSE. _

Then he laughs by saying that statistically over half the class will miss that question.


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> Robert Schumann Sym #3 is an excellent work...
> The subject of this thread is William Schuman Sym #3, which is an even better work...


Ups. Should have read better. My apologies !

Regards,

Vincula


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

vincula said:


> Ups. Should have read better. My apologies !
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


I wouldn't worry about it many worse mistakes will have been made on the forum.
Welcome - hope you enjoy your time here.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

vincula said:


> Ups. Should have read better. My apologies !
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


No problem!! Easy enough to do...enjoy the forum...


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