# Starting point for a Radiohead fan



## dee333 (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi,

This is probably not a typical post but I thought I'd try it and see what happened.

I generally don't listen to classical music much and I think my main reason is that I don't know what I will like. The genre is obviously huge and I have few friends (or even acquaintances) that are experts. I know that there will be plenty of classics that I will like, I just have no idea where to start (and yes, I have tried just buying random stuff, or famous stuff, just hasn't worked for me yet so I thought I'd ask some experts).

The kind of popular/rock music that I like is generally heavily syncopated and complex/busy, a typical track that really sticks in my mind is Myxomatosis by Radiohead (it's on youtube if you don't know it).

What I am interested in is your opinions on where a good "entry point" for me might be in order to break into classical music (or just a niche) which I am going to enjoy and be challenged by (in a good way).

Thanks,
David.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Stravinsky - Rite of Spring

Well I'm just recommending that because I used to like Radiohead (The Bends anyway) and this is my favourite classical piece, and it's heavy and rythmic yet moody, so perhaps there's a link.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Radiohead started using the ondes Martenot recently and the instrument was heavily used and associated with Messiaen. However, the "heavily syncopated" part points rather somewhere towards baroque. Just tell us if you like your pieces slow or fast, aggressive or melancholic. Always start with youtube - a great way to check what you might like. Random purchasing is not as much fun as targeted purchasing.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I listened to Radiohead yesterday and I still liked it. Beautiful, but depressing music. Even many of the songs in major key sound depressing, probably because of Yorke's whiny singing style.

I don't think Radiohead is usually particularly complex. Original yes, complex not really. Myxomatosis for what I can member was rather simple. Paranoid Android is probably as complex as Radiohead gets.

If you like the melancholic side of Radiohead, you might try Shostakovich (5th symphony for example) or Tchaikovsky, who's melodic gift is often praised and is probably relatively easy to get into. His sixth symphony might be a good one to start with, though those who know more about Tchaikosky should comment. If you like Muse too I could recommend Mahler, Wagner or other bombastic late romantic-era stuff, though it's not particularly easy music for someone who's just getting to classical.

Radiohead however is rather unbombastic though, if you're more into the experimental side of Radiohead you might wanna check some - eek - modernism, perhaps impressionism (Claude Debussy, Ravel).

However these suggestions are not probably very reliable; it's kinda hard compare Radiohead to classical composers and so these are kinda far-fetched examples.

By the way, have you already checked the obvious names (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven)?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> However, the "heavily syncopated" part points rather somewhere towards baroque.


What?!?! Baroque is rhytmically very even and predictable, definately not heavily syncopated. I often hear baroque criticized for its boring rhythms. What examples of baroque music would be heavily syncopated?


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## dee333 (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Cmaj7 suggestions*

I will definitely try to check out the Shostakovich and such.

I would say that I lean more towards the melancholic, other bands I would quote would be Pink Floyd (dsotm, wywh, amlor), The Orb (earlier is better), so not really looking for/demanding a driving beat or such.

I think the "complexity" of Radiohead is probably a very relative term. That is how it feels to me due to the layering, soundscapes and switches between styles within the music, although probably not complex compared with many classical compositions, which is why I am interested in moving in that direction.

fyi, I've had a history of being forced to learn the cello to grade 6 (a long long time ago) so I am adverse to Bach (memories of horrible practice pieces), I now find Mozart too "obvious" (although his I still love his Requiem). Not explored much Beethoven yet.

D.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Beethoven should be less obvious than Mozart, but easier to follow than most composers of romantic era. Check out his 3rd symphony, it is emotionally very diverse work (not just inside the symphony, but inside the individual movements), the heroic first movement and the second movement, "funeral march" being particularly popular. I'd recommend to listen to that before those other examples I gave.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

I don't know, but I heard the song and though you might like this:


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Cmaj 7: I just thought they might be stylistically related - definitely not Radiohead and baroque directly, but to my mind jazz and baroque have a remote connection as proved by Jacques Loussier  If you listen to Les folies for example, you might also see what I meant.


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## dee333 (Jul 1, 2009)

*Messiaen good, more please *



bdelykleon said:


> I don't know, but I heard the song and though you might like this:


Listened to some of that (Messiaen) from your recommendation and I do like it a lot. This is the kind of thing I think I am after. 
Thanks,
D.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Haydn's Symphony No. 26 in D minor


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Bach said:


> Haydn's Symphony No. 26 in D minor


That's a lovely piece, but why recommend it to a radiohead fan?



dee333 said:


> Listened to some of that (Messiaen) from your recommendation and I do like it a lot. This is the kind of thing I think I am after.
> Thanks,
> D.


Two more recommendations:
Stravinsky (but not the usual rite of the spring stuff):





and Schnittke (the composer appears right in the beggining):


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Radiohead's later stuff is pretty minimalist I think ...


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

bdelykleon said:


> That's a lovely piece, but why recommend it to a radiohead fan?]


I'm not sure what 'radiohead' sounds like, but Haydn's 26th has lots of syncopated rhythms in the first movement.


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## Dedrater (Mar 2, 2009)

John Dowland and William Byrd are apt recommendations here. Also, possibly lieder -- Schubert's, maybe, but I'm starting to get into Respighi, and his are arguably superior.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

From Radiohead to Dowland. Interesting.


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## Dedrater (Mar 2, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> From Radiohead to Dowland. Interesting.


Why not?



Cmaj7 said:


> I listened to Radiohead yesterday and I still liked it. Beautiful, but depressing music. Even many of the songs in major key sound depressing, probably because of Yorke's whiny singing style.
> 
> ...
> 
> If you like the melancholic side of Radiohead,





Wikipedia said:


> John Dowland[1] (1563 - buried 20 February 1626) was an English composer, singer, and lutenist. He is best known today for his melancholy songs such as "Come, heavy sleep" (the basis for Benjamin Britten's Nocturnal), "Come again", "Flow my tears", "I saw my Lady weepe" and "In darkness let me dwell", but his instrumental music has undergone a major revival, and has been a source of repertoire for classical guitarists during the twentieth century.


If you're interested in this sort of thing, you might as well drop the bland Pixies/Nirvana influences and listen to the real deal. It's either that, or Aphex Twin's ambient material.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

OK, so Radiohead and Dowland are both melancholy. Got it.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Dedrater said:


> John Dowland and William Byrd are apt recommendations here. Also, possibly lieder -- Schubert's, maybe, but I'm starting to get into Respighi, and his are arguably superior.


Off topic, but: I can't imagine many people arguing that and being taken seriously. Schubert effectively invented lieder and his melodic writing is often unparalleled.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

A good starting point for a Radiohead fan would be not to listen to Radiohead again.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> A good starting point for a Radiohead fan would be not to listen to Radiohead again.


That's a bit unpolite to say. Let the Radiohead fan listen to classical music and decide if it is good to him or not.



Tapkaara said:


> From Radiohead to Dowland. Interesting.


Well, rockers are unusually fond of Dowland, great composer, no doubt, but what they see in Dowland and don't in Schubert remains a mystery to me.

Anyway, a beautiful Dowland song:







Dedrater said:


> Schubert's, maybe, but I'm starting to get into Respighi, and his are arguably superior.


The only composer I can fancy a good case of being superior to Schubert in Art Song is Schumann (so thinks Charles Rosen, who doesn't hold Schubert in high regard), not that I agree, though, Schubert is the supreme lieder composer, a mixture of beautiful melodies and great piano and harmonic writing which remains unequalled to this day.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I'm curious as to what rockers see in Schubert. He's not particularly bombastic. I guess it's the sense of depression and "woe is me."


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> I'm curious as to what rockers see in Schubert.


Do they?

...


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Well, I think Conservationist likes him...I could be wrong. Plus, Schubert is listed on that "Respighi sounds ancient list" that Conservationisy was touting, so...


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

bdelykleon said:


> That's a bit unpolite to say. Let the Radiohead fan listen to classical music and decide if it is good to him or not.


Really? I guess a sense of humor is frowned upon around here.


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## Dedrater (Mar 2, 2009)

Bach said:


> Off topic, but: I can't imagine many people arguing that and being taken seriously. Schubert effectively invented lieder and his melodic writing is often unparalleled.


I don't know. I left room in my statement for debate, because I haven't heard enough of either's lieder to say. On the one hand, Schubert's are of course superb. On the other, it's fallacious to equate originators with leaders. It's also fallacious to confuse the quantity of works -- in Schubert's case, over 600 -- with the quality of works. Nevertheless, my statement was tentative and based on first impressions. I also don't think it matters very much one way or the other, because both sets are excellent.



Tapkaara said:


> I'm curious as to what rockers see in Schubert. He's not particularly bombastic. I guess it's the sense of depression and "woe is me."


I can't speak for rockers, though I suspect most people fascinated by simplistic, rebellious, loud blues music would have no interest in Schubert. Their predilection for repetition as a mindless mnemonic device, as well as the bombast you mentioned, is likely going to prevent them from taking interest.

What makes Schubert interesting is not that his music sounds 'depressing' -- it's that he crafted impeccable melodic passages and connected them together in a logical and stirring manner. The precision involved is highly impressive and practically untouchable.



bdelykleon said:


> Well, rockers are unusually fond of Dowland, great composer, no doubt, but what they see in Dowland and don't in Schubert remains a mystery to me.


Anyone who appreciates one and not the other is probably drawing premature conclusions.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Tapkaara said:


> I'm curious as to what rockers see in Schubert. He's not particularly bombastic. I guess it's the sense of depression and "woe is me."


Perhaps it's "Death metal" and "Death and the maiden". Who knows? I know I get mixed up all the time.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

airad2 said:


> Perhaps it's "Death metal" and "Death and the maiden". Who knows? I know I get mixed up all the time.


What a good point!


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## yogibearjmy (May 3, 2011)

> What I am interested in is your opinions on where a good "entry point" for me might be in order to break into classical music (or just a niche) which I am going to enjoy and be challenged by (in a good way).


I really love Radiohead--seen em' in concert. Love all their songs. Also love classical music. Just about all of it. Before recommending a classical piece I thought I would recommend a sort of in between. There is a group called Punch Brothers--they play Radiohead covers, their own progressive music, bluegrass, and classical. With them, you can find songs that cater to your musical liking.




 That's them playing Morning Bell.

LIKEWISE, here's is them playing the Allegro from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto 3: 




BUT, if you're dead set on the type of sound Radiohead produces (and I get that, they are so great) "bassClef's" suggestion of Stravinksy's _Rite of Spring_ is an excellent one.

I hope any of that helps, from a fellow Radiohead and classical music fanatic.


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## yogibearjmy (May 3, 2011)

AALLLSSSOOO I just realized this was from 2 years ago....well...I hope since then you've found some music to enjoy.


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## robert (Feb 10, 2007)

Have you ever listened to Brian Eno, or possibly Harold Budd?


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)




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## Curiosity (Jul 10, 2011)

Start by dropping Radiohead and listening to some real music. Beethoven for example.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Obviously late. But I think for anyone into chilled out rock music stuff/Ambient/Electronic would like Claude Debussy, Erik Satie, and possibly Philip Glass.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I wonder if dee333 ever took a liking to anything or even still likes Radiohead.


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## dee333 (Jul 1, 2009)

*Update*



kv466 said:


> I wonder if dee333 ever took a liking to anything or even still likes Radiohead.


I'm quite enjoying some Phillip Glass and The Rites of Spring.
Been a busy year (young kids) so my listening time has been severely restricted, but still watching this thread (from the shadows)...

I do still like Radiohead.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

dee333 said:


> I'm quite enjoying some Phillip Glass and The Rites of Spring.
> Been a busy year (young kids) so my listening time has been severely restricted, but still watching this thread (from the shadows)...
> 
> I do still like Radiohead.


Arvo Part is pretty popular here in the Composer Guestbooks. He is also a minimalist composer like Glass. Might want to check him out. Good to hear from you.


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