# Social Listening: How Does t Work?



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

_We have had a number of threads about how we listen, and I have gotten the impression that most of us usually listen to classical music alone. We appear to require solitary time in order to become absorbed in the music and in order to not miss anything._

I have tried 'social listening' (listening socially) with well-intentioned friends, but within only a few minutes, someone gets up to pour a coffee, says something, looks pregnantly and despairingly at the other participants, etc., and that's it: a conversation ensues, intentions are forgotten and the music becomes background.

*Is social listening possible? How do you do it? Does it work for you? Or do you end up not hearing much of the music at all? Do you agree to not talk for the entire piece? Or do you take intermissions to talk about the music and your impressions? What are your ideas, experiences, suggestions, practices, etc.?*


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I believe, if those who are together are truly listening, there is nothing much "social" about it until the music is over with.

It is a kind of myth, or at least a demi-myth. I suppose in larger halls one can -- and people do -- ogle the crowd, see 'who's who in the dress circle / box seats' and all that, which is actually a kind of anti-social in that it clearly indicates some sense of non-egalitarianism on the part of the observer, Lol.

Really, it is like a books discussion group, though they are smart enough to read the book on their own and meet after they are through reading it 

I have tried 'social listening' (listening socially) with well-intentioned friends, but within only a few minutes, someone gets up to pour a coffee, says something, looks pregnantly and despairingly at the other participants, etc., and that's it: a conversation ensues, intentions are forgotten and the music becomes background.

The _only_ times this has worked for me is when _all (or a big majority)_ of the guests are artists, more specifically musicians, because they tend to 1.) actually listen for extended periods of time 2.) 'Know the Score,' i.e. what is expected even if the music does not hold them fully rapt for its entirety. (If they do get up to pour a coffee, etc. they do it quietly!)

Those guests you have who get up, talk, are likely to not be your average 'classical' concert-goer


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't know anyone else really into classical music to try this. I do believe that even if I did, I wouldn't like it and would find the presence of others distracting.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Interesting point...
In the pre-recording era (almost) all listenings were shared with somebody else:
In a small group of friends or amateurs, in a concert venue, in a royal chapel or in a church, etc... the music listening was considered a social activity.
Did the recording era make us more solitary and selfish?


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

The ONLY time I have ever done "social" listening is at a concert with some other(s). Then usually went out for coffee, or a drink and discuss the concert or recital and what we heard.

I can't imagine doing it in someone's living room. Like PetrB said, it would be if a book club decided to go over to someone's house and read together without saying anything to each other, instead of meeting up after everyone read it on their own time.

Unfortunately I am in the company of HPowders whereas I do not know of anyone else who is passionate about classical music. Even if I did, I don't think I would invite them to come over to listen to a piece of music. Rather, I would like to discuss a piece of which we both agreed that we would listen, then get together to discuss said piece.

Other than that, I can't see it happening any other way than how the OP described: Utter Fail. 

V


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

GioCar said:


> Interesting point...
> In the pre-recording era (almost) all listenings were shared with somebody else:
> In a small group of friends or amateurs, in a concert venue, in a royal chapel or in a church, etc... the music listening was considered a social activity.
> Did the recording era make us more solitary and selfish?


Recordings, broadcasts and playback devices obviously opened up music to a wider demographic than before, but I don't imagine that listening to classical music was ever more than a minority interest, other than amongst musicians. So many people who listened to CM will have become increasingly used to solitary listening.

Add to that - for every CM listener there's a unique range of likes, dislikes, interests and indifferences, and a range of concentration spans, styles of listening and capacities to take things in etc. - not to mention favourite and not favourite performances.

The obstacles, then, to 'social listening' seem considerable!

My experience of social listening (not to classical music) as a teenager has been that a few friends could have a listening session if our tastes were not too different. People's different interests were often tolerated, but if they went too far from the implicitly agreed group genre interest they often weren't. It goes without saying that a fairly strict 'turn-taking' of album contributors was needed to keep things (fairly) civil.

It is interesting that I haven't really tried this since my undergraduate days. Perhaps older people do get more set in their tastes, and the almost ubiquitous availability of music via a laptop and headphones means they don't have to share or compromise. So my social listening these days is mostly done in concert halls where rules prevent people talking and getting up and making coffee, everyone there having tacitly agreed not to. However, my son and I do occasionally listen together, the 'turn taking' principle serving us reasonably well. Though I still can't quite agree that La Monte Young is 'music' and neither can he agree that Mozart is worth listening to. Yet.


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

They say in every relationship there is one who loves and one who is loved. 

When I was very young, my friends and I used to debate, "Would you rather be the one who is loved more or the one who loves more?" while we all waited for our respective Prince Charming. (Yes, it was a looonnng time ago.)

I don't entertain the idea of listening together socially because, for every piece of music, there'll be one among us who loves it more and another who loves it less. 

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, gave it away.

:tiphat:


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Eh, other than attending concerts (as PeterB pointed out, isn't really "social"), the closest thing to social listening I've done was play music on my computer out loud while my roommates and I chill on the couch. So of course, no one is really paying much attention to the music, including me, I admit.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

When I was a teenager many of my friends would get together to listen to music. We usually would smoke a joint and put on whatever albums we bought recently to turn our friends on to our latest finds. In my late twenties I had a close friend who actually would sit and listen to music with me. My wife occasionally will sit and listen with me but I have not had any friends in years that would do that. So, yes for the most part listening is a private experience. I expect that when we are with other people it's just too hard not to speak to each other unless it's at a concert and there it's more of matter of proper etiquette. I imagine if people thought they could get away with talking at a concert without embarrassment then people would talk there as well.

Kevin


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

GioCar said:


> In the pre-recording era (almost) all listenings were shared with somebody else: ...music listening was considered a social activity. Did the recording era make us more solitary and selfish?





TurnaboutVox said:


> [F]or every CM listener there's a unique range of likes, dislikes, interests and indifferences, and a range of concentration spans, styles of listening and capacities to take things in etc. - not to mention favourite and not favourite performances.
> 
> My experience of social listening (not to classical music) as a teenager has been that a few friends could have a listening session if our tastes were not too different.... Perhaps older people do get more set in their tastes....


Aside from going to a concert hall, it does seem strange to join together with friends (who share the interest) to simply listen to classical music, without talking (until the movement or piece is done), yet people do just that when they watch movies together (a popular pastime for the majority), go to meditation classes, listen to other genres of music (usually at elevated volumes, with a lot of talking... and, for some, inebriation). Why should it be odd for interested individuals to listen to classical music together, but watching movies and television, etc. is commonplace?

Granted, we do all have fairly distinct tastes, but most of us could list hundreds, if not thousands or pieces, that we wouldn't mind hearing, so there is certainly a lot of overlap in taste. It was the same in my youth: most of us were very particular about what we wanted to hear, although we were open to hearing an album a friend brought over, even if it wasn't a favourite one. I don't think being particular about music correlates with age: just ask any young person which music is good and which music isn't. There are very definite tastes, even at that age.


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## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

"How does it work?"

It doesn't. 
I listen on my own, but it's good to have two friends who are musically way more advanced than I am, to discuss things with.
We sometimes have listening sessions together. The only ones who understand and can just not talk for an hour or so. Steep learning curves for me, those evenings, they are actual musicians.

My wife enjoys me playing records while she reads; enjoyable evenings, but not realy the same thing.

Cheers,
Jos


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I often listen to music with a given friend when we get together--sure! We often talk (and drink) through it, of course, but every now and again one of us will say "hold on, listen to this--isn't this neat!" and maybe even get up and play a little bit on the piano to shed light on the appreciation or disagreement. It's not deep listening, to be sure, but it's fun--and I found out about a lot of great recordings that way. 

Mind you--all of you here on TC have pretty much made these listening sessions unnecessary!


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Its a personal thing. Noone else I know likes classical. Headphones are a must.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Aside from going to a concert hall, it does seem strange to join together with friends (who share the interest) to simply listen to classical music, without talking (until the movement or piece is done), yet people do just that when they watch movies together (a popular pastime for the majority), go to meditation classes, listen to other genres of music (usually at elevated volumes, with a lot of talking... and, for some, inebriation). *Why should it be odd for interested individuals to listen to classical music together, but watching movies and television, etc. is commonplace?*
> 
> Granted, we do all have fairly distinct tastes, but most of us could list hundreds, if not thousands or pieces, that we wouldn't mind hearing, so there is certainly a lot of overlap in taste. It was the same in my youth: most of us were very particular about what we wanted to hear, although we were open to hearing an album a friend brought over, even if it wasn't a favourite one. I don't think being particular about music correlates with age: just ask any young person which music is good and which music isn't. There are very definite tastes, even at that age.


CM is in a class by itself because of a variety of reasons.

Movies are a visual and auditory experience. There is a plot and a story. If you don't follow it, you will be lost. It's a lot easier to concentrate on something where two of your senses are engaged. And being visual creatures (We have the overall best and most complex vision in the entire animal world), movies and TV draw us in a lot quicker and wholly than just music does (generalization for MOST people).

With music you are only engaging in one sense. When it comes to being younger and having a friend over to listen to a new album it was usually pop which have limited timings. Most pop songs are between 3-5 minutes. Plus, most pop music is very simple in structure: Drums, Bass, guitar, and maybe some keyboards. Very easy to hear almost everything and still carry on a conversation.

Classical music can't just be "heard" it needs to be "listened to" if you are going to get the full experience. Hence dialogue with someone else renders it impossible to concentrate. So unless you are having people over to listen to Chopin's Preludes or Handels' Chandos Anthems one at a time and are ready to stop it after each one, CM listening just doesn't render itself to a social activity.

I can't concentrate on the Bruckner I'm listening to right now as I type this. CM really needs undivided attention.

V


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Varick said:


> I can't concentrate on the Bruckner I'm listening to right now as I type this. CM really needs undivided attention.


Ain't that the truth :lol: How many times have I had classical music on, when I decided to make a note of my listening experience on the Current Listening thread and... poof! Out the window went my experience and I had to decide whether I wanted to listen or browse TC, because I definitely am not capable of doing both concurrently.


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## Xiansheng (Feb 20, 2013)

> Is social listening possible? How do you do it? Does it work for you? Or do you end up not hearing much of the music at all? Do you agree to not talk for the entire piece? Or do you take intermissions to talk about the music and your impressions? What are your ideas, experiences, suggestions, practices, etc.?


I'm fortunate enough to have a very close friend who is both passionate about classical music (our relationship is the reason I became a devoted listener) and eager to exchange ideas with me about all sorts of things. Naturally, we often listen to music together and discuss it afterwards. These discussions invariably broaden my sensitivity to the piece and they offer the additional pleasure of good conversation with a close friend.

I think your question about taking breaks for the purpose of discussion while listening is an important one, and it's a question I hadn't considered before now. At a public performance of course we wait until intermission or the end of the performance to share our thoughts with one another. While this maintains the integrity of the piece, our ideas sometimes diverge so far as to make communication difficult. It is also impossible for me to remember all of my thoughts and impressions by the end of the piece, so some ideas are left behind. We do take breaks when listening in a private setting, but we keep them brief and infrequent enough that listening rather than talking remains the heart of the experience. Since in this case I hear her thoughts and feelings at frequent intervals, I am able to listen to more of the piece with an ear to both her thoughts and my own. This makes the conversation all the more robust.

I've also been to concerts with other friends and family members, some of whom are willing to engage with me in a conversation about the performance, but I think it takes a special sort of relationship to make for a really good listening partnership. I don't mean to make this seem like more than it is; we're both amateurs and many/most of the comments on this board are more interesting than anything we have to say about music. I do think there is a unique value in face-to-face conversation, though.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My house has two people in it. When I play classical music, I am considered to be "socially dead".


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Xiansheng said:


> I think your question about taking breaks for the purpose of discussion while listening is an important one, and it's a question I hadn't considered before now. At a public performance of course we wait until intermission or the end of the performance to share our thoughts with one another. While this maintains the integrity of the piece, our ideas sometimes diverge so far as to make communication difficult. It is also impossible for me to remember all of my thoughts and impressions by the end of the piece, so some ideas are left behind.


This would be an advantage to listening at home: one can take a break to discuss impressions while they are still fresh in one's mind. After a concert, I, too, rarely remember all of the thoughts I had about the piece, all of the things I wanted to remark upon and share, except for the very last one, which is generally just "wow!, which doesn't make for a lot of stimulating conversation  I suppose if one were intending to do this with any seriousness, one would listen one or a few times over the course of a few listening sessions, taking pauses to converse and share impressions, as needed (preferably between movements), and then go straight through.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

This is the downside to the long playing times of LPs/CDs and the theoretically unlimited (?) playing times of mp3 files. In the days when a record side played for three to four minutes, any fairly informal record recital would have a natural conversation break every few minutes- which suits my attention span just fine. I was thinking about this recently because I bought some 78s from an online acquaintance and when I go to pick them up he's going to play some of his collection for me, which I'm really looking forward to because he's massively knowledgeable and a great raconteur. So maybe 'social listening' has a future, under these circumstances at least!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Varick said:


> CM is in a class by itself because of a variety of reasons.
> 
> Movies are a visual and auditory experience. There is a plot and a story. If you don't follow it, you will be lost. It's a lot easier to concentrate on something where two of your senses are engaged. And being visual creatures (We have the overall best and most complex vision in the entire animal world), movies and TV draw us in a lot quicker and wholly than just music does (generalization for MOST people).
> 
> ...


Yes. I agree. People who go to concerts and read their programs as the music is playing are simply wasting their money.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Unfortunately I'm more used to anti-social listening. I.e. neighbours cranking up their hip hop while at the BBQ or people in cars with the windows down, even in winter. Bump Bump Bump Bump


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^I moved away from all that, from the very noisy, to the very quiet.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

There used to be a 'Recorded Music Society' in Lancaster. Every month or so, they would gather and sit without talking in rows in a large room whilst at the front there was a huge array of electronics manned by a pair of technical experts who would make slight adjustments to a selection of the myriad dials as the music progressed. Members of the committee would take it in turn to devise and present the programme for the evening and there was a coffee break when people were supposed to discuss the pieces. The society seems to have folded some years ago, but one remains in a neighbouring town ... although I never go as their programmes invaraible include a rather large number of 'light' items tthat don't appeal to me.

I only attended a few times - I found people generally went to talk, not to listen ... and certainly not to _exchange_ opinions. I got the impression that most of those who were interested in what _was_ played focussed on aspects of the recording/playback quality rather than on aspects of the music or the performance - as a result, it didn't meet my tastes


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

LarryShone said:


> Unfortunately I'm more used to anti-social listening. I.e. neighbours cranking up their hip hop while at the BBQ or people in cars with the windows down, even in winter. Bump Bump Bump Bump


You have my sympathy! It would irritate me to be grilled by the neighbours' music or to listeen to mobile discos. One of the (few) advantages of living close to a very busy motorway is that one can hear little from the neighbourhood when in the garden


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Music has been de-centralized. AM radio used to be the place to hear a new Beatles song, or The Byrds, but since Reagan de-regulated the FCC rules about radio station ownership, a few corporations have bought it all up. Underground radio, and the disc jockey were made obsolete by corporate playlists and market research.

Music is "private" now; XM satellite and Sirius have anything you want, but they are not collective experiences.

Music is too "dangerous" and unifying to be allowed to exist as a collective experience.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Yes. I agree. People who go to concerts and read their programs as the music is playing are simply wasting their money.


This heinous offence could be eradicated if the lights in the hall were turned down .... but then there would be a large increase in the level of snoring :devil:


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

In the old days record shops in the states used have listening booths where you would demo a record (UK too?)
Any places still do this?


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Boo hiss to Reagan and his deregulation, obviously.

But I think the individualisation of listening has liberated us all from the tyranny of middlebrow taste. You're less likely to be treated like a weirdo for listening to CM instead of Adele or Coldplay, because the anti-CM thought police don't know what music you're downloading/streaming/buying online- unless you want to tell them!

Do you think that listening to CM in a large group has the potential to be some kind of subversive activity? Not saying it isn't, I just hadn't thought about it in that way. Listening alone to any non-mainstream music certainly feels satisfyingly countercultural, although not in any way likely to alarm the authorities!


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

LarryShone said:


> Unfortunately I'm more used to anti-social listening. I.e. neighbours cranking up their hip hop while at the BBQ or people in cars with the windows down, even in winter. Bump Bump Bump Bump


I must admit that on Halloween, I open the windows and crank some of Bach's Organ works like some Preludes and Fugues and of course his Passacaglia & Fugue on my stereo. The looks my house gets from the street as people walk by....

V


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Well thats one way to put the trick or treaters off knocking on your door


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Varick said:


> I can't imagine doing it in someone's living room. Like PetrB said, it would be if a book club decided to go over to someone's house and read together without saying anything to each other, instead of meeting up after everyone read it on their own time.


But even that's an imperfect analogy. You could read together better than listen together because with reading, you can go at your own pace. Unless you were actually playing the instruments, which is what social listening really would be. You want a social experience, play the works yourselves (easier said than done, I know).


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