# Why do you think some musicians widely recognized during their time are forgotten?



## ManuelMozart95 (Sep 29, 2018)

Surely the most common answer is "their music wasn't so good" which of course it is true in many cases just like today lots of artists are very popular but it is dubious they will stand the test of time.
However I'm not convinced it is true in all cases. Let's not forget that Johann Sebastian Bach was virtually forgotten until Mendelssohn revived him.
Nowadays Bach is a key figure but just like he was unfairly forgotten during those decades there are many musicians that are still forgotten or maybe forgotten is not the word but they are not so popular as others despite being just as good.

Why do you think this happens? Do you think it is in part to blame to the music industry that usually focus on just a few names from each period?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Well, in the case of Hummel, the writer of such an excellent and influential 2nd Piano Concerto, who's rarely if ever performed in the concert halls, his influence was so absorbed by Chopin and eventually surpassed that he's been virtually forgotten compared to when he was active on the scene. In other words, his music often reminds one of Chopin's and yet _he_ came first... There can be 1001 reasons why an excellent composer is forgotten, underrated, or ignored. But I think for any music to ultimately last it must transcend the culture and period it was written in and have something _universal_ about it that speaks to the hearts and minds of its listeners. Its joy, depth, and profundity must strike deep and often enough. Chopin's does certainly more than Hummel's, as excellent as Hummel was during his lifetime. Fortunately, through the medium of recorded sound, the best of these almost forgotten composers can be heard for a reassessment and appreciation to find the neglected treasures if they exist and if one is curious enough. I think the reasons can only be discovered by going from one specific composer to another, and one work of theirs to another, because the reasons may never be exactly the same why someone was essentially lost or forgotten.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Why do you think this happens? Do you think it is in part to blame to the music industry that usually focus on just a few names from each period?_

The "industry" you cite didn't happen until the 20th century when the access to electricity and recordings playable at home made it possible to know players, composers and music. Bach did not reside in any musical capitol at any point in his life, which was mainly spent in the church.

Liszt was the first to create home scores, translating whole operas and symphonies to be played on pianos, which were becoming more common in the late 19th century in upper class homes. Otherwise, to know music and musicians, one had to live where music was played, go to concerts, to conservatories, or read music journals.

Most European music evolved around Vienna, London, Paris, Rome and some other points on the map. If you were known in those cities and performed widely you had a reputation...in circles of people that knew music. This is high art we're talking about, not satellite radio available to anyone.

To the other point, there were many now-considered-minor composers (as well as some greats) that were once considered magnificent who were later cast aside. In one example both the Moravian (Czech-Slovak) Franz Krommer and Italian Rossini were once considered the world's greatest composers in Vienna and Europe; then along came this fellow named Beethoven.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Also, there´s only a certain amount of music and composers, that the average public has time and energy to cultivate as an interest of their own. The total number of composers of course goes up through time, which adds to the sorting out.

BTW I agree, at lot of composers deserve to be much better known and have written very interesting or fine works, just as well as some of the old warhorses don´t deserve that much being a centre of attention. 

The recording industry and the radio has somewhat compensated for the more sparse, live concert situation. But still, only a few people have the will and time to go into depth of that vast, recorded repertoire.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Just a factual point: J. S. Bach was never virtually forgotten.


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## ManuelMozart95 (Sep 29, 2018)

EdwardBast said:


> Just a factual point: J. S. Bach was never virtually forgotten.


I think he was, he was was studied by other musicians of course, but his music was rarely played.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

ManuelMozart95 said:


> I think he was, he was was studied by other musicians of course, but his music was rarely played.


He was studied by the world's best classical musicians from his death till today. He was never in danger of being forgotten.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

It must always be kept in mind that for a long, long time most music heard in concerts was new music. There wasn't this worship of a few hallowed masterworks. When Mahler was conducting in New York, he was allowed one "classics" concert per season - Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven. Most of his concerts were filled with music that was recent. At that time, even Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Martucci, Raff and others were modern. Then something went wrong and the orchestral repertoire clung on to the past. Although modern composers had their music played, it sometimes didn't last. Sometimes a premiere performance was also the last. Then, given the enormous expense of running an orchestra, the limited amount of rehearsal time, and the importance of selling tickets, lesser composers and bizarre new works just didn't stand a chance. In the 19th c. Joachim Raff was a sensationally popular composer - his symphonies were 2nd only to Beethoven in popularity in the US. But as the repertoire was thinned out, Raff's weaknesses doomed him to oblivion. And he was only one of many.

We can lament the sorry situation that so many once well-known composers are forgotten, but it's understandable. That music belongs to another, long past world. Thank God for recordings and record producers willing to let us hear it. There have been recordings that were so terrific that I hoped it would spur performers to program some of that music. Alas, didn't happen. The few adventurous performers out there deserve our support. The Bard Festival under Leon Botstein always picks some really interesting, forgotten repertoire. The Music Nova orchestra in Phoenix has a long history of playing the unusual. This year we're getting symphonies by Parry and Reinecke. In the past they've played Raff among others.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ManuelMozart95 said:


> I think he was, he was was studied by other musicians of course, but his music was rarely played.


In the late 1770s, the child Beethoven toured with his father playing for noble audiences. And what did he play? Bach's Well-tempered Clavier. In addition, the Italian Concerto and the Goldbergs were well-known. Bach's other instrumental music and his organ music were less heard, and his sacred choral music was pretty much eclipsed until Mendelssohn revived it. At least that is what I understand from my reading.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_He was studied by the world's best classical musicians from his death till today. He was never in danger of being forgotten. _

That's true in part because he had two sons that achieved fame and carried on his music, one of whom got credit as part inventor of the symphony. Still, his greatest creation, the St. Matthew Passion, wasn't performed until the 1830s, a lifetime after his death. Sebastian Bach had wives and children that performed and many students, all of whom learned on the WTC which revolutionized music by introducing equal temperament.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Because fashion has little to do with quality.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I used to have a book published around 1900 which listed all the composers who where prominent at the time. I remember looking through it and I couldn't recognize most of the names. Dozens of composers who haven't even survived like Raff has, through recordings at least.

Bach's revival is credited to Mendelssohn and although he was important there where others, including his teacher Zelter. Later generations of musicians, including Widor, Casals, Landowska and Stokowski took up where Mendelssohn left off. Bach has also proved to be one of the most adaptable of composers, within classical and beyond (particularly jazz).

Bach’s example shows that continued advocacy of a unknown or less known composer can be a really important factor. Even better, there's nothing like some big hit which puts a formerly obscure composer in the spotlight. This happened with Vivaldi, the score of his Four Seasons was found in some dusty basement in the mid 20th century, a recording was made and the rest is history.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

My take on it is that the personal power a composer can yield around him has little to do with his or her value. I call it the luck of the Oedipal draw. Some parents raise their children to love themselves in all they do and go out and conquer for the family name. Some parents basically shame their children especially the ones that follow the arts. People who are the only child are known to be somewhat self-centered because they don't have to share with siblings. All these things are part of why some rise to the top, and perhaps some who don't really have that much of a gift. There are other more esoteric explanations. Perhaps some who are more gifted are more spiritual and are turned off by "the world" and all it's trials and temptations.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Good question that applies to other kinds of music also. In rock the Stones will always be remembered, but the wildly popular at the same time BeeGees? They are already largely forgotten. Johnny Cash will be remembered, but who still listens to Mac Davis who was all over country music in the 70's.

In classical music it is the music director in the concert hall choosing the pieces. Are they going on public opinion?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Things were different prior to the age of recordings. Certainly prior to the modern age of communications. An early 19th century orchestra in, say, Germany did not have extreme access to music as we have today. Perhaps a local composer was able to capture the attention of a conductor or concert master and have his music performed, music which people who attended the concerts found attractive enough. The reputation of the composer would be filtered round to other musicians in other towns and perhaps other orchestras would venture a playing of a work. Word spreads, the reputation is built, popularity follows. But in the larger scheme of things, not all of these local popular composers can have the same universal impact. When there is so much more to choose from, the "better" eventually rises to the top. A composer who had momentary popularity becomes overshadowed in this larger scheme, a scheme that presents attractive, interesting music by others.


Too, there seems to be a consistency of quality among the "greatest" composers. I enjoy a symphony or two by Raff, but the man's output simply can't compare to, say, Beethoven who seems to have imbued nearly everything he penned with a special magic (as did Bach, Mozart, Schubert, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok … you know the list). And in terms of concert play or even recording, economics rule the roost today. With nine great Beethoven symphonies (sure audience favorites) to select from, how does Raff get a selection on a concert or recording venue?

I appreciate the recording of "minor" or "lesser known" composers, and I have collected much music by these such, yet I also feel that the "magic" of that handful of greats, the celebrated, well-known composers simply can't be ignored. Chances are that the music of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven … will leave a more lasting impression on a fresh set of ears than will music by those "lesser known names".

The same goes for popular music, too. Time sorts out the chaff from the grain, which is all right. We only have so much time. Hopefully we need not waste it attempting to cull out quality when Time has already done the job for us, quite effectively.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I frequently hear a work by a near forgotten composer - Hummel for example - and I think - mmm, that's pretty good.

then why dont I go and make sure I have a copy in my collection? why do I never seek it out and revisit?

pretty good aint good enough.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

I like some of Louis Spohr's music - the Nonet is a wonderful piece with a slow movement that ranks with Beethoven. Unfortunately, Spohr could also produce passages of terribly banal writing. Great composers' music is very rarely banal.


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## Durendal (Oct 24, 2018)

I've often wondered this myself. There are so many quality composers outside of the typical ones that get all the attention. How did an opera composer as sensationally popular as Meyerbeer in the 19th century become forgotten?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

A note on two composers mentioned, Raff and Hummel. 

I'm not familiar with Raff's music, but Liszt and Tchaikovsky where admirers (placing him above Brahms). In saying this, its worth noting how Raff helped Liszt with orchestration, and Brahms' ally Eduard Hanslick savaged Tchaikovsky's music. When Richard Strauss met Bernard Herrmann, he was surprised in the young composer's expert knowledge of Raff.

I've enjoyed Hummel's Concerto in B minor for decades, and fondly remember hearing it played by Piers Lane. I remember reading the program of that concert and in it the writer argued that composers who have now passed to second rank status still have a place in the concert hall. I agree in Hummel's case, he wrote good music and was influential on others including Chopin and Schubert. His Septet is still performed, so too his Trumpet Concerto which is considered to be amongst the finest for the instrument. I think he occupies a position similar to Max Bruch.


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