# 19th century French opera



## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Hi all

Although I love 19th century Italian opera, I'm starting to branch out and enjoy opera on a more general basis. Part of that is an exploration of 19th century French opera. I'd be grateful if u could provide me with recomendations, apart from Carmen, Faust and Samson et Dalila, which I already know. Interested in both CD and DVD,,, but more recent productions on DVD are better for my system due to clearer sound, like Met in HD. I'm particularly fascinated by Massenet. Since I'm a newcomer to the ''taste''of 19th century French opera, do u think it is better to go straight for an opera in its entirety or buy a recital of French Arias? Please recommend and tell me what to expect as someone who enjoys Italian opera. (I never use libretti...).

I would like to apologise in advance for any confusion or being demanding.

Looking forward to hearing from u all.

Louis Solomons


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

We have at least one specialist on this site named: Simom Templer, he's written several piece about French opera.
His blog:
https://operascribe.com/

An if this link is working like I would you can find his reviews and article.
http://www.talkclassical.com/search.php?searchid=3014420

As for myself, I love French opera also, not so many are filmed in HD.

The one springs out is Massenet: Thais / Renée Fleming in the lead. 
Bizet's Pearl Fischer's is also a new production in HD on DVD.
Hope this helps a bit.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Apart from Bizet's Pearl Fishers and Massenet's Thais, can anyone recommend a French Arias recital CD? 

Or is it not worth it, since I know Carmen, Faust and Samson already?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

From the top of my head:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/5456102

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Sony/G010003507199P

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Sony/G010003507199P
You can use the barcode to see if they still on CD.

Also French romantic opera arias / Joan Sutherland.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

This one is nice:










Of course, going into French 19th century opera, the most obvious thing to do is to explore Le Grand Opéra.

Some interesting pieces from the period: "Les Troyens", "Mireille", "La juive", "Les Huguenots",...

To start with, you can try this:


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I know this thread is entitled ''19th century French opera'', but I'm also new to Russian opera, apart from Eugene Onegin. Any good ideas of how to start?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seems my very favorite one is missing and for a good reason. This tour de force production of two steamy performances by Netrebko and Villazon at the LA Opera was stupidly never made into a complete DVD. What a mistake! It will remain the one special production that should have been shared by the world. These two singers were made to be together. What they have wrought is nothing short of spectacular. I was there!
Here is the best I can do with that magical (and very sexy) love scene from Gounod's _Romeo et Juliette_.
Also added for your visual eye candy is also a snippet of another one they did together very successfully -- _Manon_


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

Saint-Saens (Bettina will loathe me for not including the accent tremor on the e) Samson et Delila
Edit: I really need to read the full OP.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

dillonp2020 said:


> Saint-Saens (Bettina will loathe me for not including the accent tremor on the e) Samson et Delila


How dare you deprive Saint-Saëns of his diacritical mark! That's as bad as cutting off Samson's hair!! :lol:


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

schigolch said:


> This one is nice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would prefer to try Berlioz Les Troyens...how should I go about watching it as it's very long (I think it's 2 DVD's in the Royal Opera production).


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Massenet: Esclarmonde
Bizet: The Pearl Fishers
Godard: Dante
Gounod: Romeo and Julia

These are the ones I came to think of first.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I know this thread is entitled ''19th century French opera'', but I'm also new to Russian opera, apart from Eugene Onegin. Any good ideas of how to start?


Michail Glinka's A Life for the Tsar.


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

Also, my opinion on opera recitals. I have about 100 or so CDs that are simply recitals, and they are completely neglected for a reason. I don't really like recitals where they sing "O mio bambino caro" then "un bel di vedremo" then "casta diva". Don't get me wrong, I love these arias (the last two far more than the first), but hearing them by themselves isn't as fulfilling for me as hearing them in the context of the full opera. Also, I like to read along with the libretto and the opera recitals typically don't come with libretti. I would invest in full operas as opposed to recitals.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I loved this 1847 French opera:









This one is very good too (1859). Same wonderful soprano (Isabelle Philippe) as in above opera:


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

dillonp2020 said:


> Also, my opinion on opera recitals. I have about 100 or so CDs that are simply recitals, and they are completely neglected for a reason. I don't really like recitals where they sing "O mio bambino caro" then "un bel di vedremo" then "casta diva". Don't get me wrong, I love these arias (the last two far more than the first), but hearing them by themselves isn't as fulfilling for me as hearing them in the context of the full opera. Also, I like to read along with the libretto and the opera recitals typically don't come with libretti. I would invest in full operas as opposed to recitals.


I think Madama Butterfly and Norma are so great operas that if they had to be in a highlight CD you would have to take the whole opera. Maybe skip the humming chorus. Norma is set in France does that make it count as a French opera?


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Sloe said:


> Norma is set in France does that make it count as a French opera?


No, sorry. I meant French opera like Berlioz, Bizet or Meyerbeer.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> No, sorry. I meant French opera like Berlioz, Bizet or Meyerbeer.


I was joking.
Madama Butterfly is originally based on the novel Madame Chrysantheme. That is very different Chrysantheme is far less nicer than Butterfly. There is a French opera based on Madame Chrysantheme but it is not that good.


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

Sloe said:


> I think Madama Butterfly and Norma are so great operas that if they had to be in a highlight CD you would have to take the whole opera. Maybe skip the humming chorus. Norma is set in France does that make it count as a French opera?


Yeah I have like two full copies of both. I think the OP wants operas written in French by French composers. French composers by style not birth for example Offenbach or Meyerbeer.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sloe said:


> I think Madama Butterfly and Norma are so great operas that if they had to be in a highlight CD you would have to take the whole opera. Maybe skip the humming chorus.


MAYBE SKIP THE HUMMING CHORUS?????? Have you taken leave of your senses sir?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> MAYBE SKIP THE HUMMING CHORUS?????? Have you taken leave of your senses sir?


I just don't like it that much.


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> No, sorry. I meant French opera like Berlioz, Bizet or Meyerbeer.


It seems more like you want recommendations for specific recordings, am I correct in this assumption, or do you just want titles. If the latter is the case, simply googling the composer + "operas" will produce results.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

dillonp2020 said:


> It seems more like you want recommendations for specific recordings, am I correct in this assumption, or do you just want titles. If the latter is the case, simply googling the composer + "operas" will produce results.


I would like specific performances as well as titles. How would u suggest watching Les Troyens?

I'm fascinated by Bryan Hymel and would like to listen to him. Anyone able to recommend a CD of his? He's on the ROH production of Les Troyens.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm fascinated by Bryan Hymel and would like to listen to him. Anyone able to recommend a CD of his? He's on the ROH production of Les Troyens.


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like specific performances as well as titles. How would u suggest watching Les Troyens?


Sorry, my brain is fried from final exams. Les Troyens is a fantastic opera. I bought the DVD with Placido Domingo and Jessye Norman at the MET. It wasn't so bad. If I remember correctly, the duration was 4-5 hours, which I find bearable for one sitting (on DVD, CD not as much). If you can't handle 4-5hrs, I would pause at the end of the acts. There are 5 acts in Les Troyens, so you could probably get enough from it by watching it in a segmented way.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

dillonp2020 said:


> Sorry, my brain is fried from final exams. Les Troyens is a fantastic opera. I bought the DVD with Placido Domingo and Jessye Norman at the MET. It wasn't so bad. If I remember correctly, the duration was 4-5 hours, which I find bearable for one sitting (on DVD, CD not as much). If you can't handle 4-5hrs, I would pause at the end of the acts. There are 5 acts in Les Troyens, so you could probably get enough from it by watching it in a segmented way.


I'm thinking of buying the one from the ROH with Bryan Hymel as Aeneas. If it's two discs, would u suggest splitting them up by a day or so? Also, what opera goes well with it...something else big and epic, like Boccanegra or Chenier? (Domingo in the title role of Boccanegra or Kaufmann in Chenier)?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I'm fascinated by Bryan Hymel and would like to listen to him. Anyone able to recommend a CD of his? He's on the ROH production of Les Troyens.


Your choices are pretty limited - Hymel hasn't recorded much - but there is this one:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Thanks for the plug, Pugg!

French opera is wonderful. 

The biggest difference between French and Italian opera is that French opera is driven more by the text. The voice reigns supreme in Italian opera, but French operas were written for an audience that went to the theatre regularly; the style is more declamatory, and musicians, librettists and critics emphasized the dramatic qualities of the work. (Does it work as a play? Is it logical?) 

I’d suggest listening to whole operas, if you can, but listen to a few of the famous bits first, to familiarize yourself with the work. Do you understand French? If you do, I can point you to some useful material.

You mentioned Massenet, Berlioz, Bizet and Meyerbeer. Fantastic! All are great; the other composer whose work I’d generally recommend is Offenbach. I’ll also suggest some other operas you should check out.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

*Massenet*
Versatile, prolific, always experimenting, one of the great melodists, and sensitive to character and drama. Here's my article about Massenet: www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Aug/Massenet_article.pdf. (This also suggests highlights from each opera.) His two most famous works are _Manon _and _Werther_, but there are others I prefer. www.artlyriquefr.fr has a terrific collection of dossiers on Massenet; they're listed here.

Recommended recordings of some great Massenet operas:
•	_Manon_ - 1955, conducted by Pierre Monteux, starring Victoria de los Ángeles
•	_Esclarmonde_ (Wagnerian legendary opera, for coloratura soprano) - 1975, conducted by Richard Bonynge, starring Joan Sutherland
•	_Werther_ - 1931, conducted by Élie Cohen, starring Georges Thill and Ninon Vallin (has Thill singing other Massenet arias)
•	_Thaïs_ (the obsessive love of a monk for an Alexandrian courtesan) - 1997, conducted by Yves Abel, starring Renee Fleming and Thomas Hampson (or the Met Live performance)
•	_Cendrillon_ (witty, elegant, adaptation of the fairy story, with some sublimely lyrical passages) - 1978, conducted by Julius Rudel, starring Frederica von Stade, Nicolai Gedda, Jane Berbié, Jules Bastin, Ruth Welting
•	_Grisélidis_ (mediaeval comic legend; the devil tries to break up a happy marriage) - 1992, conducted by Patrick Fournillier, starring Michèle Command
•	_Le jongleur de Notre-Dame_ (a mediaeval mystery play, about a juggler who performs for the statue of the Virgin Mary) - 1978, conducted by Roger Boutry, starring Alain Vanzo, Jules Bastin & Marc Vento
•	_Cherubin_ (semi-sequel to the Marriage of Figaro, about Cherubino's amorous adventures) - 1991, conducted by Pinchas Steinberg, starring Frederica von Stade, Samuel Ramey, Dawn Upshaw, & June Anderson
•	_Ariane_ (Greek tragedy) - 2007, conducted by Laurent Campellone, starring Cécile Perrin (no commercial recording; on YouTube)
•	_Thérèse_ (short, intense, drama set during the French Revolution) - 1973, conducted by Richard Bonynge, starring Huguette Tourangeau
•	_Don Quichotte_ (melancholy and moving version of a play inspired by Cervantes) - 1992, conducted by Michel Plasson, starring José van Dam, Alain Fondary & Teresa Berganza
•	_Roma _(Roman tragedy, austere and powerful; the old story of the vestal who lets the flame go out) - 2001, conducted by Patrick Fournillier
•	_Amadis_ (mediaeval romance) - 1988, conducted by Patrick Fournillier
Recordings with French casts are generally better, even if they're less starry. _Le Roi de Lahore_ and _Le Cid_ have both been recorded with international casts, but you really want the St-Etienne _Roi _and the Marseille _Cid_.

A few intro albums:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

*Berlioz*

Only wrote three operas - but what operas!

_Benvenuto Cellini_, his opéra-comique, is one of the most vibrantly alive operas; its full-blooded embrace of life is Romanticism at its best. Not the Romanticism of white-gowned women, crumbling castles and storms, but Hugo's belief that Romantic literature should embrace the world: the ugly and the beautiful, high and low, comedy and tragedy. The opera is set in Renaissance Italy; the hero is the famous goldsmith and sculptor, who must make a statue for the Pope to marry the girl he loves - or be hanged.

_Les Troyens_, never performed entire in Berlioz's lifetime, is one of the grandest of grand operas, but with the simplicity of Gluck. It tells the story of the fall of Troy and how Æneas betrayed Dido.

_Béatrice et Bénédict_, a caprice written with the point of a needle, is an adaptation of Berlioz's beloved Shakespeare. Has a wonderful overture and a stunningly beautiful nocturne duet, "Vous soupirez, madame?".

Berlioz's music is a joy. Imaginative, idiosyncratic, beautiful and exhilarating, there's nothing like it.

You want THIS:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

*Bizet*
Well, there's _Carmen_, of course! So popular it's easy to forget just how good it is - a wealth of brilliant, catchy tunes, four vividly drawn characters, and a tightly constructed plot. Listen to this:








and watch this:





Nothing else Bizet wrote is quite in the same class. There are some fine things in _Les pêcheurs de perles_, including the duet "Au fond du temple saint", and _Djamileh_ has an intriguing score.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

The problem is that many of the best operas haven't been recorded on DVD, or the DVD is inadequate. If you want a representative sample of DVDs:



























(Which you should try since you like _Samson_.)









(Meyerbeer is poorly represented on DVD. I'm loth to recommend the Sydney _Huguenots_; the Raoul can't handle the role. The Domingo / Verrett _Africaine_ is a cut version of an opera that is itself a shoddy edit of _Vasco da Gama_.)


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

More DVDs:








OR








(I saw this one live - nice production)


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

If you can only handle a few at a time…

The four you should start with:
*1.	Les Huguenots (Meyerbeer)*
Magnificent opera; the most performed opera of the 19th century.
Choice of three:







(weak Raoul)







(French cast, but some cuts)




(live broadcast; not a commercial recording)

*2.	La juive (Halévy)
Powerful opera about anti-Semitism; admired by Wagner and Mahler.
*








(although the recording is problematic; stay away from the Shicoff DVD)

*3.	Benvenuto Cellini (Berlioz)
4.	Les troyens (Berlioz)
*
See above.

Half a dozen other great ones:

*Auber - La muette de Portici
*The opera that created Belgium. Try:





*Le prophète (Meyerbeer)* - on a par with _Les Huguenots_; Meyerbeer uses John of Leyden's Anabaptist uprising to critique demagoguery and political / religious fanaticism. 1973 Lewis, with Horne and *Nicolai Gedda*.

*Les contes d'Hoffmann (Offenbach)*

*Sigurd (Reyer)* - French treatment of the Siegfried legend, by a disciple of Berlioz. Rosenthal; heavily cut, though!









*Rossini - Guillaume Tell
*





*Hamlet (Thomas)
*









*Don Carlos (Verdi)
*

And Massenet!


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Sloe said:


> I was joking.
> Madama Butterfly is originally based on the novel Madame Chrysantheme. That is very different Chrysantheme is far less nicer than Butterfly. There is a French opera based on Madame Chrysantheme but it is not that good.


Messager is messy, is the message?


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I'm fascinated by Bryan Hymel and would like to listen to him. Anyone able to recommend a CD of his? He's on the ROH production of Les Troyens.


The Hymel recital CD is:









Some interesting rarities.

I prefer Michael Spyres; I find Hymel's voice too "tight".


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> Apart from Bizet's Pearl Fishers and Massenet's Thais, can anyone recommend a French Arias recital CD?
> 
> Or is it not worth it, since I know Carmen, Faust and Samson already?


Two by Véronique Gens

















Duets from French romantic opera


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Massenet is my main man. But I could not go without mentioning *Lalo's "Le Roi d'ys."*
->




*Chausson's "Le Roi Arthus"* is in it's own right, a worthy effort. I also think *Albéric Magnard's "Guercoeur"* is quite as gripping as, say, Massenet's stronger works for the stage.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

schigolch said:


> This one is nice:


This is also excellent:











> Of course, going into French 19th century opera, the most obvious thing to do is to explore Le Grand Opéra.
> 
> Some interesting pieces from the period: "Les Troyens", "Mireille", "La juive", "Les Huguenots",...
> 
> To start with, you can try this:


Arrrrrrrrrgh, no! Laurent Pelly's post-modern ironic productions tend to suck the joy and charm out of the operas. A better _Robert_ is the 1985 Paris production; the sound quality isn't great, though, and Rockwell Blake sounds dry:




I prefer Alain Vanzo, on CD, from the same production.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, I disagree. 

This was a very entertaining production of "Robert".


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Does Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande count as 19th-century French opera? Its style looks ahead to the 20th century, but it was actually written at the very end of the 19th century (1898, if I remember correctly).


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

It was premiered in 1902. 

Anyway, it's indeed much different from most of French 19th-century opera.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I know this thread is entitled ''19th century French opera'', but I'm also new to Russian opera, apart from Eugene Onegin. Any good ideas of how to start?


With _Boris Godunov_, by Mussorgsky. One of the masterpieces of world opera - Shakespearean portrayal of the guilt-ridden monarch, and impressive choruses and ensembles. Russian opera owes a lot to French opera, particularly Berlioz and Meyerbeer, and later to Wagner. Often big operas, on historical or mythological themes, about the glory and tragedy of Russia.

Two recommended DVDs:

















You should also listen to the Cluytens recording, starring Boris Christoff as Boris Godunov, Boris Christoff as the monk Pimen, and Boris Godunov as the drunken Varlaam. Magnificent performances by one of the twentieth century's greatest singers.









Highlights include:
The Coronation scene: 



Boris's aria: 



The Walls of Kazan: 



The Forest of Kromy: 




Other important Russian operas include Borodin's _Prince Igor_, Glinka's _Ivan Susanin (A Life for the Tsar)_ and _Ruslan & Lyudmila_, Rimsky-Korsakov's _Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh_, _Sadko, Kashchey the Deathless_, and _The Golden Cockerel_, and Tchaikovsky's _Queen of Spades_, _Maid of Orleans_, _Iolanta_ and _Mazeppa_. Gergiev recorded a lot of these in the 1990s; attractive "blue" covers.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

You should also listen to French comic opera, both bouffe and opéra-comique. (Opéra-comique means opera with dialogue; some of it is comedy, a lot - including Revolutionary / Napoleonic opera and Carmen - isn't.)

Offenbach is the master - witty, tuneful, and funny. His best operas are:

_La Périchole_









_Les brigands
_




Delightful; like watching an Asterix.

_La grande duchesse de Gérolstein
_









_La belle Hélène
_









_La vie parisienne
_









_Orphée aux enfers
_









There are two excellent highlights CDs:
EMI's _Vive Offenbach!_, with extracts from many of the major works
Opera Rara's _Entre nous_, which looks at the obscure ones


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> Messager is messy, is the message?


Is that your opinion?


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Sloe said:


> Is that your opinion?


I'm rather fond of the old boy myself! No, I was referring to your mention of _Mme Chrysanthème_.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I'm thinking of buying the one from the ROH with Bryan Hymel as Aeneas. If it's two discs, would u suggest splitting them up by a day or so? Also, what opera goes well with it...something else big and epic, like Boccanegra or Chenier? (Domingo in the title role of Boccanegra or Kaufmann in Chenier)?


When you have the choice of Domingo in Boccanegra or Kaufmann in Chenier you don't pause for even a nanosecond. You go right for the Kaufmann!
Your choice of Hymel from the ROH is excellent. Go for it.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> I'm rather fond of the old boy myself! No, I was referring to your mention of _Mme Chrysanthème_.


It is a French 19th century opera so why not mention it regardless of my personal opinion.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

schigolch said:


> Well, I disagree.
> 
> This was a very entertaining production of "Robert".


We'll agree to disagree (or disagree to agree)! 

I'm a Meyerbeer obsessive, but I struggled to get through the Pelly DVD. (A lot of the audience and critics detested it; it only confirmed their thoughts about Meyerbeer.) Primary colors, Pythonesque restaurants and knights, singers wheeled around in cardboard turrets, and what someone called "the battle of the monster trucks", made it fairly alienating. John Relyea was a good Bertram, though.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Orfeo said:


> Massenet is my main man. But I could not go without mentioning *Lalo's "Le Roi d'ys."*
> ->
> 
> 
> ...


All terrific works! If we're suggesting later works (turn of the century, to mid-century), then Dukas' _Ariane et Barbe-bleue_ and Poulenc's _Dialogues des Carmélites_.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Sloe said:


> It is a French 19th century opera so why not.


I think we're talking at cross purposes here! I'm not criticising your suggestion of Mme C. You said that _Madame Chrysanthème_ wasn't as good as _Butterfly_. "So Messager [the composer of the opera] is messy [not very good], is the message [you're saying]?"


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> I think we're talking at cross purposes here! I'm not criticising your suggestion of Mme C. You said that _Madame Chrysanthème_ wasn't as good as _Butterfly_. "So Messager [the composer of the opera] is messy [not very good], is the message [you're saying]?"


Just personal impression. I don't think messy is the right word by the way.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Sloe said:


> Just personal impression. I don't think messy is the right word by the way.


Well, a mess, then. But it's late here, so we might give the whole thing a mess (or miss), before things go further amiss (or amess)!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> All terrific works! If we're suggesting later works (turn of the century, to mid-century), then Dukas' _Ariane et Barbe-bleue_ and Poulenc's _Dialogues des Carmélites_.


I was thinking of Dukas' work as a matter of fact. It's very much a product of its time, more so than Debussy's earlier yet forward-looking, break the ice, masterpiece.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Forgot this one. I have it and it is EXCELLENT!



SimonTemplar said:


> The problem is that many of the best operas haven't been recorded on DVD, or the DVD is inadequate. If you want a representative sample of DVDs:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> All terrific works! If we're suggesting later works (turn of the century, to mid-century), then Dukas' _Ariane et Barbe-bleue_ and Poulenc's _Dialogues des Carmélites_.


I am confused. Isn't _Dialogues des Carmelites_ a 20th Century work?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> The problem is that many of the best operas haven't been recorded on DVD, or the DVD is inadequate. If you want a representative sample of DVDs:


Let O.P study this 3 and life will never be the same again.


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

Don't shy away from _Carmen_ because of its popularity. It's charming and sexy and the tunes will stick with you. I especially recommend any videos you could find of Elina Garanca and Roberto Alagna, the most recent Carmen and Don Jose over at the Met - they're incredible and have awesome chemistry.


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## MusicBear88 (Jun 14, 2017)

There's a box called Michel Plasson et l'Opéra Français that is unfortunately difficult to find now, but maybe you can get it used. It has:

Bizet: Carmen (Alagna, Gheorghiu, Hampson, Mula)
Bizet: Les Pêcheurs de perles (Hendricks, Aler, Quilico)
Leo Délibes: Lakmé (Dessay, Kunde, Van Dam)
Gounod: Faust (Leech, Studer, Van Dam, Hampson)
Gounod: Mireille (Freni, Vanzo, Rhodes, Bacquier, Van Dam)
Gounod: Roméo et Juliette (Kraus, Malfitano, Van Dam, Quilico)
Gounod: Roméo et Juliette (Alagna, Gheorghiu, Van Dam, Todorovitch)
Magnard: Guercœur (Behrens, Salvan, Lagrange)
Massenet: Don Quichotte (Van Dam, Berganza)
Massenet: Hérodiade (Studer, Denize, Olmeda, Heppner)
Massenet: Manon (Cotrubas, Kraus, Quilico, Van Dam)
Offenbach: La Belle Hélène (Norman, Aler, Burles, Bacquier)
Offenbach: Orphée aux enfers (Mespié, Sénéchal, Trempont, Burles)
Offenbach: La Périchole (Berganza, Carreras, Bacquier, Michel Sénéchal)
Offenbach: La Vie parisienne (Crespin, Mesplé, Masson, Chateau)
Roussel: Padmâvatî (Horne, Gedda, Van Dam, Berbié)

16 recordings of 15 operas. While few of them are my absolute favorite recordings of their given operas, they are for the most part quite good and idiomatic. One of the hardest things about French opera is finding recordings with Francophone singers! When I was coaching Roméo et Juliette, it was difficult to find something for my leads to listen to with decent pronunciation. I adore the recording with Freni and Corelli, but not for teaching diction! I had to go back to Raoul Jobin and Janine Micheau, neither in their prime, but at least native speakers of the language.

To this list I would add Massenet's Thaïs (Sills/Gedda/Milnes), Werther, Meyerbeer's Les Huguenots, and Saint-Saëns' Samson et Dalila, all mentioned by previous posters.

Carmen was the first opera that I studied in depth, because I went to a bilingual high school (English and French). I understood the language enough to concentrate on the music and the drama. It may be very popular but it's often not done very well. My favorite is the Abbado recording with Berganza, Domingo, Milnes, and Cotrubas, though Frühbeck de Burgos' recording with the Paris Opera and the leading pair of Grace Bumbry and Jon Vickers has a great deal to recommend it.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> I am confused. Isn't _Dialogues des Carmelites_ a 20th Century work?


It is; Orfeo suggested Magnard's _Guercoeur_ (1931), and _Pelléas_ has been mentioned.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

MusicBear88 said:


> There's a box called Michel Plasson et l'Opéra Français that is unfortunately difficult to find now, but maybe you can get it used. It has:
> 
> Bizet: Carmen (Alagna, Gheorghiu, Hampson, Mula)
> Bizet: Les Pêcheurs de perles (Hendricks, Aler, Quilico)
> ...


That looks like a great set! The _Faust_ and _Orphée_ both have a lot of material that isn't available on other recordings; the _Roméo_ and _Don Quichotte_ are excellent; the _Guercoeur_ is, I believe, the only recording; and the _Hérodiade_ and _Vie parisienne_ would be my suggested recordings for those works.

Finding Francophone performances - and a French singing style - is, as you say, often tricky! French opera demands singers who can pronounce French, and who understand the nuances of the text, because the music is so tied to the word. It's also a harder language to pronounce than German or Italian. Some international singers can manage it - Nicolai Gedda, for one, sounds fluent - but both Domingo and Carreras struggle. And you often have to go back to pre-'60s recordings to get the proper French style!


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Hi. Just wanted to clarify that I'm working on French opera generally, but starting from the 19th century. I'might finding Berlioz and Meyer beer a bit hard to take at the moment, but I really appreciate all your recommendations. I'might going to have to take things slowly, starting with Werther (Thill) Thai s (Met HD) and Manon (Victoria De Los Angeles), followed by Carmen (someone mentioned the Met HD one with Garanca and Alagna).

I hope that I haven't wasted your time...u can write my name Louis rather than O.P, I don't know what that means). Private messages are also an option.

Have a wonderful day!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Louis: Don't miss the Garanca/Alagna _Carmen_. They're on fire.
(OP=Original Poster)


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Will buy that! Thanks for the recommendation! Just bought the 1955 recording of Massenet''s Manon (with Victoria De Los Angeles) as well. Will go through that, Werther and Thais for Massenet (his three most fascinating operas, I think!) and this production of Bizet's Carmen. That's sufficient for starters!


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Repeating information up stream.


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