# Most "Russian" Russian composer?



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Who was the most "Russian" of Russian composers?

The idea to this thread came when reading about Tchaikovsky's Souvenir de Florence, Op 70, and the last movement's "quintessential Russian character". If there is such concept of "Russian character" I am wondering what makes music "Russian", and who would be the most "Russian" of Russian composers?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

The most "Soviet" of the Russian composers: 




Or the most "Russian" of the Soviet composers (whichever way you prefer)


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I don't know. I would like to say Mussorgsky, but his published oeuvre is so small it's hard to make that generalization. (He could drink like a Russian, however. )


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Stravinsky, speaking of Tchaikovsky said "he was the most Russian of us all". What a lot of think of as a Russian sound is really how we perceive the works of the Russian Nationalists. Can a composer's nationality be identified as Russian only from listening? In some cases, yes. There is one composer whose music is unmistakably Russian: Khachaturian.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Borodin <3 sounds very Mongolian,
Rachmaninoff sounds very Belarusian,
Rimsky-Korsakov sounds very Kazakhstani.

Pure Russian? I'm not sure!


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

I'd say Tchaikovsky, with Mussorgsky a close second. But a Russian would probably be a better judge.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Vasily Sedoi


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The trouble is (with reference to this question and its possible answers) that Russia is a vast land and has produced a vast number of fine composers. They come from the country's various regions and each region has, more or less, its own "sound", often one based upon the folk tunes of the region.

As well, what we think of as "Russia" is not just a nationalistic state but, in some sense, a political state, where "Soviet music" (Shostakovich, mainly) might be construed as something different from, say, pre-Revolution "Russian music" (Mussorgsky, for instance).

And the religious music of Russia, such as that composed for the Russian Orthodox liturgy, is a unique vehicle amongst the world's music and has produced some fine composers (such as Nikolai Kompanyeisky and Dimitrij Bortniansky).

With these things in mind, I find this a difficult question to answer with any sure sense of accuracy. Sorry.


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## JackRance (Sep 13, 2021)

Why Rimsky-Korsakov and not Mussorgsky? Rimsky-Korsakok had too much civilization in his music...


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

That seems to be based on the assumption that Russian = uncivilised. Take some friendly advice and don't say that to any Russians you meet.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

When I think of Russia, I don`t hear a Dumka nor I see a lively Russian village, galloping troikas etc. but I immediately visualize a cold apartment room, some vodka and lots of grey tones surrounding the whole scenery. Then I hear Shostakovich...


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

There was a quote earlier in this thread where where Stravinsky said “Tchaikovsky was the most Russian of us all.” Tchaikovsky’s works occupy a specific time. The “Mighty Five” had stressed Russian themes yet to music of the Five can be a bit sporadic in quantity/Quality. Tchaikovsky summed up late 19th Century Russian Music. Only within a few years after his death Russia and the entire world were thrown into World War I, the collapse of the Czar/Russian aristocracy and all the changes in music that had already begun in Tchaikovsky’s last years. I guess Tchaikovsky could be called the “poster boy” of Russian music but certain not completely representative of all of Russian music. In many cases,Tchaikovsky acts as the “key” to listeners who begin to investigate Russian music. Personally speaking,I love Tchaikovsky


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Rachmaninov, without a trace of doubt. The quintessential Russian work, his and in general - Vespers. Taneyev comes second, then the rest.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

None of the above ... Mikhail Glinka


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Sergei Tchaikorvinchsky


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Becca said:


> None of the above ... Mikhail Glinka


The acorn from which the whole tree grew. Kamarinskaya. You're probably right.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Becca said:


> None of the above ... Mikhail Glinka


That was my vote as well.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mily Balakirev from Islamey and much more .


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Another ridiculous poll that would be impossible to determine objectively. But, just fun, I'd say Glinka! It's really _that_ simple. Glinka was the first composer to give identity to Russian classical music and, I'm just making an assumption, but I think every composer on this list would agree with me about Glinka's importance.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Animal the Drummer said:


> That seems to be based on the assumption that Russian = uncivilised. Take some friendly advice and don't say that to any Russians you meet.


What? Russians are so mild-mannered.

I voted Scriabin. His sound isn't quintessentially Russian, but the extreme uncompromising nature of his music and the unbridled passion are very Russian. Plus, only Russia could produce a man who thought he would usher in a new era of human transcendence through a giant musical orgasm of his own composition, and then died of an infected pimple (actually a cold sore) before he could complete his plans. C'est la vie, as a 19th century Russian noble would say.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

My favorite Russian composer is Tchaikovsky, but he was often criticized by his fellow Russians as too cosmopolitan, and was considered not one of the "mighty handful" trying to create a national school of Russian music. Other favorites are Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin and Mussorgsky, and those composers did try to hew to a "Russian school", indeed they, particularly Rimsky-Korsakov, helped build one. I still did not vote for them, although they have a stronger claim than Tchaikovsky.

I voted for Shostakovich. With his style and his wrestling with the Soviet system, he seems to me the most "Russian" of composers, or as another poster pointed out, the most Soviet. But then, not being Russian myself, what do I know?!


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> There is one composer whose music is unmistakably Russian: Khachaturian.


Kalinnikov, yes. Glinka, yes. Both missing from the poll.
Definitely not Khatchaturian. There are lots of exotic Eastern culture influences in most of his works and let me assure you it doesn't sound Russian at all. Soviet, sometimes but that spot has been already taken by Shosty


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

It's Shostakovich for me whether it's Russian or Soviet.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Couchie said:


> Who was the most "Russian" of Russian composers?
> 
> The idea to this thread came when reading about Tchaikovsky's Souvenir de Florence, Op 70, and the last movement's "quintessential Russian character". *If there is such concept of "Russian character" I am wondering what makes music "Russian"*, and who would be the most "Russian" of Russian composers?


This seems the important question to me. The most obvious approach at the level of basic materials would be to analyze traditional Russian folk and liturgical music looking for favored melodic intervals and inflections, and common metric and rhythmic characteristics. The opening melody in the overture of Boris Godunov is quintessentially Russian at this level in its interval structure and its metrically irregular phrasing.

In broader and more abstract terms, some musicologists have focused on the handling of large scale contrasts, citing a tendency toward the systematic juxtaposition of "spiritual opposites" rather than the organic unity of incrementally evolving structures. The first movements of Tchaikovsky's Fourth and Sixth symphonies are perfect examples of this approach to form. Not sure if or to what extent I buy this, but it makes sense for a number of Russian composers.

Anyway, it's a complicated topic and despite being a life long enthusiast and consumer of Russian music, I couldn't possibly pick a most Russian composer.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Buff, this is an interesting and very difficult question to answer, what makes a composer "Russian"? The reasons for most of those who opine on this subject, are usually decided depending on whether the composer uses Russian folk music in his works and therefore sounds more Russian to them. If so, it could by no means be Glinka, there were composers before him who used these resources. What truly makes Glinka the "father" of Russian music is that he is the first to have international relevance.

The incorporation of melodies of Russian folkloric origin to the compositions obeys the conservative sentiment of the time: orthodoxy, tsar, loyalty. For this reason, those who did not agree with these ideas and entered music in a more regulated way through a conservatory, such as Tchaikovsky, are considered less Russian. In my opinion this greater openness has nothing to do with a lack of nationalism, it is simply a reaction to the extreme conservatism of, for example, Glinka.

Greetings
Vicente


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

that must be John Field...


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

EdwardBast said:


> This seems the important question to me. The most obvious approach at the level of basic materials would be to analyze traditional Russian folk and liturgical music looking for favored melodic intervals and inflections, and common metric and rhythmic characteristics.


I believe it's still probably impossible to say. Who's more "American": Gershwin, Copland, Ives or Bernstein?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

dissident said:


> I believe it's still probably impossible to say. Who's more "American": Gershwin, Copland, Ives or Bernstein?


My thoughts exactly!!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

sharik said:


> that must be John Field...


Wasn't John Field Irish? 
sweet avatar, btw


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Russian:

Imperial _
Borodin 
Mussorgsky
Rimsky-Korsakov 
Tchaikovsky 
Balakirev 

20th Century _
Glazunov 
Gliere 
Lyadov 
Rachmaninov 
Scriabin 
Stravinsky 
Taneyev S
Arensky 
Glazunov 
Scriabin 

Soviet _
Khachaturian 
Prokofiev 
Shchedrin 
Shostakovich


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