# Unconventional Ensembles



## Jean Christophe Paré (Nov 21, 2010)

More and more, especially with contemporary music, we are exposed to ensembles that require forces that were not usually called upon before. I'm thinking mainly about the percussion ensemble.

Though I never heard any, I was wondering about the effectiveness of a full woodwind or full brass quartet; that seems interesting to me, though maybe harder to balance.

What do you think are - or would be - interesting ensembles?


----------



## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

One of my favourite pieces of all is Walter Rabl's Clarinet Quartet--a somewhat unusual ensemble.

http://www.amazon.com/Walter-Rabl-Quartett-Alexander-Zemlinsky/dp/B00000IFN9


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*I am wondering...*

if you are the Melmoth from Classic France....

Martin Pitchon


----------



## Mitch Clark (Aug 5, 2014)

Hi Sebastien. Now that is an inspired choice! And how eclectic too! Best wishes from Mitch.


----------



## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

A type of ensemble that I particularly enjoy which is occasionally written for but not quite standard is the chorus with multiple pianos and percussion configuration, e.g. Stravinsky/Les Noces, Dallapiccola/Canti di Prigionia (also includes 2 harps), the "chamber versions" of Orff/Carmina Burana and Catulli Carmina, etc. I'd list the Antheil Ballet Mechanique in there too, even though it doesn't include chorus.


----------



## csacks (Dec 5, 2013)

Just to mention another unconventional ensemble, during this week I had the chance to listen Edgard Varesse´s "Ionizations", 13 percussion instrument, 1 piano, and a very interesting result. It is the most atypical group I have ever heard.


----------



## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Hindemith wrote a lot of pieces for an unusual combo, I think his goal in mind was to write more music for less used instruments

What I think would make a cool ensemble: String quartet, piano, trumpet, horn, saxophone, drums, bells/celesta, organ/harmonium


----------



## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

LOL you guys realize how old this thread is? Anyway, I love this Georg Haas piece "......" (yes, that's its name) 



 for viola and six voices!


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

SeptimalTritone said:


> LOL you guys realize how old this thread is?


Some people like to exhume old threads for the fun of it. Perhaps it should be a weekly tradition. 

Flute, Harp and (mobile) Carillon Trio. I saw some video on youtube of such a group, but I can't find the videos now.


----------



## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

Debussy had planned to write a Sonata for oboe, horn and harpsichord but died before he began composing it. I think this would have been, and could be, a fascinating combination. Were any sketches found and did anyone attempt to reconstruct or finish it?


----------



## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

This kind of ensemble ?




:lol:

More seriously, now:
_Elpénor_ by Roussel was written for a flute and a string quartet ; it is not that unconventional, but I think this combination deserves to be used more often:





Another seldom combination is Vivaldi's _Sonata for Bassoon and Harp_




or his _Sonata for Recorder, Bassoon and Continuo_:


----------



## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

Just found this on Youtube





*George Onslow*, _Nonet in A-minor, Op 77a (1848) for flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, bassoon, violin, viola, cello, double bass._
According to Wikipedia, French composer George Onslow was very appreciated when he was alive... but I've never heard of him! Yet, this "nonet" is worth listening.

He'll be added to my composer-to-discover-list.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Daniel Ruyneman*: _Hieroglyphs_ (1918)





for 3 flutes, celesta, harp, piano, two mandolines, two guitars, cup bells and "electrophone". In stead of an electrophone a vibraphone can be used


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

*Toru Takemitsu* (1930-1996) composed works that included various traditional Japanese instruments. One famous example is _November Steps_ (1967), composed for biwa, shakuhachi and orchestra.









See also Takemitsu's _From me flows what you call time_ (1990), which is a concerto for a percussion ensemble and orchestra. The five percussionist play a wide array of international instruments: Indonesian wooden angklungs, Pakistani Noah bells, Carribean steel drums, Turkish darabukkah, marimbas, vibraphones, kettle drums, congas. I discuss it at length here: http://www.talkclassical.com/2563-toru-takemitsu-5.html#post709241










*Unsuk Chin* has a new _Concerto for Cheng and Orchestra_. This new recording, which came out last Tuesday, marks the recording premier of the work.


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Ravel - Trois poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé: 2 Flutes, 2 Clarinets, String Quartet, Voice


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I really love woodwind quintet (flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, and bassoon). All brass ensembles aren't bad either, but the timbre range isn't as diverse or interesting, and I haven't heard particularly good music that utilizes that chamber group. For some pretty stellar music using wind quintet, I heavily recommend Samuel Barber's "Summer Music", and Tsuneo Imahori's "Lost Planet", though the later drops the horn from the mix in favor of a quartet. There is also the piece "Friendship" by the prog rock band Camel from their music based on The Snow Goose, which features that same kind of quartet, with an electric piano mixed in as well. Its just a gorgeous combination of sounds that really allows these individual timbres to shine and to blend together.


----------



## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

BurningDesire said:


> I really love woodwind quintet (flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, and bassoon). All brass ensembles aren't bad either, but the timbre range isn't as diverse or interesting, and I haven't heard particularly good music that utilizes that chamber group. For some pretty stellar music using wind quintet, I heavily recommend Samuel Barber's "Summer Music", and Tsuneo Imahori's "Lost Planet", though the later drops the horn from the mix in favor of a quartet. There is also the piece "Friendship" by the prog rock band Camel from their music based on The Snow Goose, which features that same kind of quartet, with an electric piano mixed in as well. Its just a gorgeous combination of sounds that really allows these individual timbres to shine and to blend together.


Wind quintets are great indeed, especially Schoenberg's, which is so infinitely modern. It says: one of the special features of twelve tone music is the sound color interaction that it allows, that tonal music cannot! And for sound color, what better ensemble than a wind quintet, with five very distinguishable instruments.

Edit: and the Camel you recommended is good! I don't listen to much non-classical really, so thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Wind quintets are great indeed, especially Schoenberg's, which is so infinitely modern. It says: one of the special features of twelve tone music is the sound color interaction that it allows, that tonal music cannot! And for sound color, what better ensemble than a wind quintet, with five very distinguishable instruments.
> 
> Edit: and the Camel you recommended is good! I don't listen to much non-classical really, so thanks for the recommendation.


I highly recommend the whole Camel album, its very lovely. If you like that so much, I can recommend alot of other great prog rock that should be right up your alley  and there's also the composer Frank Zappa who exists both in the rock and classical realms. Getting back with the topic of the thread, Zappa's work is often for eclectic combinations of instruments, such as standard rock instruments supplimented with large volleys of percussion and winds, or harpsichord with large groups of woodwinds, some of them run through electronic filters to change their timbre.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Camille Saint-Saens ~ _Le carnaval des animaux_ (1886)
2 pianos, 2 violins, viola, cello, double bass, flute (and piccolo), clarinet (C and B♭), glass harmonica, xylophone (13 instruments.)

Igor Stravinsky; Octet (1923)
flute, clarinet in B♭ and A, 2 bassoon, trumpet in C, trumpet in A, tenor trombone, bass trombone.

Alban Berg ~ Kammerkonzert für Klavier und Geige mit 13 Bläsern (1925)
Piano, Violin (soloists), piccolo, flute, oboe, English horn, E♭ clarinet, A clarinet, bass clarinet, bassoon, contrabassoon, trumpet, 2 French horns, trombone.

Manuel de Falla ~ Concerto for Harpsichord, Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Violin and Cello (1926)

Francis Poulenc ~ _Aubade_ (1929)
2 flutes, 1 oboe & 1 English horn,, 2 clarinet, 2 bassoon, 2 horns, trumpet, piano, 2 viola, 2 'cello, 2 bass, 3 timbales.

Anton Webern ~ Konzert für neun Instrumente, op. 24, 1934
flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, trumpet, trombone, violin, viola, and piano

Igor Stravinsky ~ Mass (1948)
mixed chorus; 2 oboe, English horn, 2 bassoon, 2 trumpet, 3 trombone.

Elliott Carter ~ Sonata for Flute, Oboe, Cello & Harpsichord (1952)

David Lang:
_The Passing Measures_ (1998) 45'
solo bcl, 8 alto voices, 0000/4331/4perc, 2pf, ebgtr, 8 or more vc, 2 or more db (throughout the entire work all dynamics are within the range of, pianissimo, piano,) all the performers are amplified.

_Slow Movement_ (1993) 25'
2 fl, a sax, ten sax, bar sax, perc, 2 syn, accordion, 2 e gtr, e bassgtr, vn, vc; all amplified.


----------



## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

One day, I'd love to write a quartet for my favourite instruments from each section of the orchestra. Clarinet, trombone, marimba and cello. All of them have great ranges, with plenty of good bass sounds in them.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Benjamin Britten was especially adept at replicating certain sounds with instruments both conventional and unorthodox. For example, in keeping with his desire for the opera Noye's Fludde to include predominantly amateur musicians and singers, the sound of the rain is made by ceramic mugs of varying density hanging on a string and being tapped with a wooden ladle - simple but brilliant!


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I like the "modern" ensembles that Messiaen, Boulez, and Takamitsu used. This usually consisted of somewhat "oriental" sounding instruments, like the harp. We can call it "plucked strings," "bowed strings" and percussion, like maybe a marimba, xylophone, or vibraphone (metallophone). Each has different duration characteristics and sound-envelopes. Here are examples in recordings:

 

[URL="http://www.amazon.com/Boulez-Marteau-Maitre-Sonatine-Messiaen/dp/B000MSBU90/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-4&keywords=Boulez%2FLe+Marteau"] 


 


[URL="http://www.amazon.com/Messiaen-exspecto-resurrectionem-mortuorum-Chronochromie/dp/B000001GOV/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1408986372&sr=1-1&keywords=Boulez%2FEt+Exspecto"]  


[/URL]

[/URL]


----------



## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Alypius said:


> *Unsuk Chin* has a new _Concerto for Cheng and Orchestra_. This new recording, which came out last Tuesday, marks the recording premier of the work.


 I need to hear that!

What about nearly everything ever composed by Stockhausen? _Helicopter Quartet_ chief among them..


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

An unconventional ensemble to me is any 100+ piece orchestra who still plays Mozart and Haydn in the romantic tradition.


----------

