# I Keep making silly mistakes!



## presto

I'm not really a beginner but basically a self taught Treble Recorder player and I get an enormous amount of pleasure playing baroque music.
I get my fingers round some quite flashy stuff Telemann, Handel sonatas but I always make a mistakes in any movement I play, no matter how many time I’ve practiced it. 
I have sonatas I’ve played for years and know them like the back of my hand and must of have played them many hundreds of times yet I still hit a wrong note at some stage, it’s very disheartening considering the amount of time I’ve put into practicing.
Strangely the mistakes are rarely in the same place, I’ll often get thought a tricky passage and fluff on simple bit.
Without sounding boastfully I can play in tune my finger work is neat and I know how to put a bit of expression into a piece, I feel could be quite a good recorder player if wasn’t for these stilly mistakes holding me back. 
I am dyslexic and not terribly good at reading and writing and I’m starting to wonder if this is affecting my ability to read music too.
Any thoughts would be appreciated?


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## jani

presto said:


> I'm not really a beginner but basically a self taught Treble Recorder player and I get an enormous amount of pleasure playing baroque music.
> I get my fingers round some quite flashy stuff Telemann, Handel sonatas but I always make a mistakes in any movement I play, no matter how many time I've practiced it.
> I have sonatas I've played for years and know them like the back of my hand and must of have played them many hundreds of times yet I still hit a wrong note at some stage, it's very disheartening considering the amount of time I've put into practicing.
> Strangely the mistakes are rarely in the same place, I'll often get thought a tricky passage and fluff on simple bit.
> Without sounding boastfully I can play in tune my finger work is neat and I know how to put a bit of expression into a piece, I feel could be quite a good recorder player if wasn't for these stilly mistakes holding me back.
> I am dyslexic and not terribly good at reading and writing and I'm starting to wonder if this is affecting my ability to read music too.
> Any thoughts would be appreciated?


Have you tried to practice in your mind?


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## presto

jani said:


> Have you tried to practice in your mind?


Not sure what you mean by that!


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## jani

presto said:


> Not sure what you mean by that!


http://musiciansway.com/blog/2010/07/mental-imaging/


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## Jaws

presto said:


> I'm not really a beginner but basically a self taught Treble Recorder player and I get an enormous amount of pleasure playing baroque music.
> I get my fingers round some quite flashy stuff Telemann, Handel sonatas but I always make a mistakes in any movement I play, no matter how many time I've practiced it.
> I have sonatas I've played for years and know them like the back of my hand and must of have played them many hundreds of times yet I still hit a wrong note at some stage, it's very disheartening considering the amount of time I've put into practicing.
> Strangely the mistakes are rarely in the same place, I'll often get thought a tricky passage and fluff on simple bit.
> Without sounding boastfully I can play in tune my finger work is neat and I know how to put a bit of expression into a piece, I feel could be quite a good recorder player if wasn't for these stilly mistakes holding me back.
> I am dyslexic and not terribly good at reading and writing and I'm starting to wonder if this is affecting my ability to read music too.
> Any thoughts would be appreciated?


I think it is the way that you are practicing. It sounds as if you haven't learned some finger patterns properly. Do you practise scales, and scale fingering patterns? The important thing is that if you are doing scale fingering patterns you need to practise them by reading them. Don't play scales from memory, this doesn't help you read music.


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## Guest

*@presto* How long have you been playing? It would be well worth taking a few lessons before you get into bad habits


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## presto

Jaws said:


> I think it is the way that you are practicing. It sounds as if you haven't learned some finger patterns properly. Do you practise scales, and scale fingering patterns? The important thing is that if you are doing scale fingering patterns you need to practise them by reading them. Don't play scales from memory, this doesn't help you read music.


I do practice scales and I don't have a problem with runs and getting my fingers round tricky passages. 
It's these random mistakes I get as if my fingers and brain for a tiny moment just lose coordination.
As I said earlier even in a slow easy piece I'll often miss read a note, very frustrating! 
I did have a few lessons last year, apart from being expensive they weren't very helpful, the teacher seemed more concerned in teaching me how to embellish and ornament the music. 
I just wanted to be able to get through a movement without making a mistake before moving onto that! 
could age be a factor I'm 52?
I've been learning the recorder about 10 years now, it might sound odd but apart from the mistakes I am improving as I'm gradually playing more involved music.


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## Guest

If you have played a piece hundreds of times and you are still making mistakes it could simply be a matter of concentration but unless it is a technically difficult piece you should have it memorised. 
Welcome to the world of the amature musician mistakes happen you must play through them.


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## myaskovsky2002

Get married... You won't notice all other mistakes any more

Martin


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## Head_case

Already married maybe...the other mistakes follow a natural course 



> I'm not really a beginner but basically a self taught Treble Recorder player and I get an enormous amount of pleasure playing baroque music.


The mistakes are natural; that is what separates a trained performer from an amateur maybe. Amateurs enjoy playing, and the imperfections keep them striving, removing one stumbling block at a time. It is frustrating to discover new stumbling blocks open up where previous ones were sealed, but that is the nature of playing when you are self-taught. The assured consistency, only arises when proficiency is based on mastering the piece in slow motion, and then quickening the pace gradually.

I wonder if you are playing too fast, and then finding yourself tripping up. I haven't played the treble recorder for a long time, but it's small fingering space messed me up when I returned to it briefly. Maybe if you move up to a bass recorder (same low F pitch, read an octave below, as your treble recorder, you'll find you make less mistakes. The greater air column stops me from being wasteful, although music is played slower, as with all larger wind instruments, it takes more time to start shifting air.

Maybe try 'memory' chunking phrases, like a few bars until you can play from memory. Equally, Telemann's Sonatas takes some skill to play very well, and it might be easier to try some known repertoire at say, Grade 6 for treble recorder. You could try Alan Bullard's Galloway Sketches or Recipes; John Turner's Four Diversions; Geoffrey Poole's Skally Skarekrow's Whistling Book. If you can master these without mistakes, then perhaps try Frans Bruggen's edits of the Bach Sonatas adjusted for treble recorder. After these pieces, if you can manage them proficiently, then return to the Telemann Fantasies & Sonata. No matter how hard you spend trying to undertake virtuoso music (Telemann did not write for beginners!!), it will be more frustrating than it will be rewarding. You could spend another 10 years trying ...

Equally - it sounds like you're proficient enough now to need experienced tutelage to guide you. Why not take a lesson a month, just for direction and clarification about your technique and learning? If everyone could be self-taught and play Telemann in a few years, it wouldn't be worthwhile playing :/


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## Jaws

presto said:


> I do practice scales and I don't have a problem with runs and getting my fingers round tricky passages.
> It's these random mistakes I get as if my fingers and brain for a tiny moment just lose coordination.
> As I said earlier even in a slow easy piece I'll often miss read a note, very frustrating!
> I did have a few lessons last year, apart from being expensive they weren't very helpful, the teacher seemed more concerned in teaching me how to embellish and ornament the music.
> I just wanted to be able to get through a movement without making a mistake before moving onto that!
> could age be a factor I'm 52?
> I've been learning the recorder about 10 years now, it might sound odd but apart from the mistakes I am improving as I'm gradually playing more involved music.


The good news is that it isn't anything to do with your age. I am 54 and have started from the beginning on the oboe 12 years ago, so we probably started at the same age.

I don't have your problem with reading music and odd mistakes.

I do have terrible coordination. I am not able to play the piano because of the lack of coordination. I don't know right from left either.

I do have a scale book with about 28 pages of scales, which are all written in one key and I have to add the key signatures. I never play scales from memory. I have good sight reading. I never read individual notes when playing, I read only note patterns. I never have to think about fingerings these have become second nature due to lots of studies and scale patterns. I never play scales from memory.

So I think the answer is that you will be able to do it. I don't think it has anything to do with how much you can get your fingers round, but more to do with how you are reading the finger patterns.


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## presto

Thanks for all the replies, you’ve given me lots of things to think over.
Perhaps I’m expecting too much, I listen to a lot of recordings of fine performers and I want to be able to play like that. 
I’m forgetting these people have spent many years training from an early age and being naturally gifted at the same time.
At the end of the day I still do get a great deal of pleasure out of playing my Recorder and that’s what really matters.


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## Jaws

presto said:


> Thanks for all the replies, you've given me lots of things to think over.
> Perhaps I'm expecting too much, I listen to a lot of recordings of fine performers and I want to be able to play like that.
> I'm forgetting these people have spent many years training from an early age and being naturally gifted at the same time.
> At the end of the day I still do get a great deal of pleasure out of playing my Recorder and that's what really matters.


It is quite good to be able to use a phrase that a friend of mine uses with people learning musical instruments.

It goes. "I can't do that YET"

Do you play in any ensembles? This helps with sight reading.

You say that you have been listening to recordings. My last oboe teacher used to say that the good thing about making a recording was that if you went wrong you could have another go.......


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## presto

Jaws said:


> Do you play in any ensembles? This helps with sight reading.


No, but I do easy duets with my 13 year daughter, she's about grade 3 on the flute, it's great fun when she's in the mood.
But she always loses interest before I do!
Other than that it's a bit of a solitary affair.


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## Jaws

presto said:


> No, but I do easy duets with my 13 year daughter, she's about grade 3 on the flute, it's great fun when she's in the mood.
> But she always loses interest before I do!
> Other than that it's a bit of a solitary affair.


Does your daughter play in any groups?


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## Guest

presto said:


> No, but I do easy duets with my 13 year daughter, she's about grade 3 on the flute, it's great fun when she's in the mood.
> But she always loses interest before I do!
> Other than that it's a bit of a solitary affair.


I was in a similar position and found the old tape deck was a god send, easy to record one line of a duet and then play back and accompany playing the second line, this was also excellent for getting used to entry points etc


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## Head_case

presto said:


> No, but I do easy duets with my 13 year daughter, she's about grade 3 on the flute, it's great fun when she's in the mood.
> But she always loses interest before I do!
> Other than that it's a bit of a solitary affair.


http://www.srp.org.uk/players-wanted/

Are you signed up?

My school used to be. But back then, my school didn't have CCTV and police guards to chaperone the teachers :lol:

I wonder if you've tried any of the residential courses which the Society list and offer. You just need to be able to play and be
interested for the adult residential weekend courses which happen in some amazing locations and retreats in the countryside, taught by some of the most incredible players.

If you make it to any of the Early Music Festivals (the next one is in the first week of November), there are always people wanting to meet up. You know - lonely (i.e. 1 in existence) double sub-contra-contra bass player wanting to make music with a consort of high pitched garkleins roflmao!

Like one of these handy little babies:


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## Head_case

Andante said:


> I was in a similar position and found the old tape deck was a god send, easy to record one line of a duet and then play back and accompany playing the second line, this was also excellent for getting used to entry points etc


That's a neat idea. I tend to use the mini-disc player to record myself. Then when someone else plays, I use their playing to record over mine which thankfully destroys the evidence.


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## Guest

Head_case said:


> That's a neat idea. I tend to use the mini-disc player to record myself. Then when someone else plays, I use their playing to record over mine which thankfully destroys the evidence.


One thing I should have mentioned is that you need to count in on the tape otherwise you won't know when to come in :lol:


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