# Mind or body?



## Guest (Sep 12, 2013)

The 'Music v Literature' poll prompted me to ask a similar silly question.

Given the choice between trying a new diet, food, outdoor activity or exercise regime (to improve your body) or trying a symphony you've never heard before (to improve your mind) which is more important?

I'll provide my own answer straightaway: 'mind' everytime!


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Body. I have a rather extensive experience in listening to (or perhaps better hearing) symphonies, and I could do with a few kg less.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'd have to choose both. I tend to move around when I'm listening to something and I'm usually eating or drinking at the same time.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't think music improves the mind. I think of it as a hedonistic indulgence and a waste of time in the grand scheme of things (time well wasted nonetheless). I prefer learning to exercise, but partake in both. Also, exercise does wonderful things for mental health in addition to bodily health.


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I resisted the temptation of choosing mind. You can't live without body!... unless you are a brain in a jar, of course.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

No Matter, Never Mind


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I voted 'other'. I go dancing once a week & enjoy walks; no doubt whatsoever that I could do more and have become sedentary, but I don't need anything new. I just need to get off my backside.

Similarly, I have loadza lovely music that I know well or have just discovered & wouldn't mind exploring in depth, so again, I don't need anything new. All I need to do is throw off my mental laziness.

But my spiritual sloth is even more marked, alas!  If I could have unexpected access to Grace, or finally learn how to pray - how wonderful would that be? 

PS - For those who question the validity of 'spiritual', think of my choice as emotional: a new way to increase love, joy & peace...


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Body, because my mind is IN my body. It's in my skull I think.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Body, because my mind is IN my body. It's in my skull I think.











Maybe body reside in mind, huh?


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

regressivetransphobe said:


> It's in my skull I think.


The pineal gland, to be precise.


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2013)

I voted both, because when I eat sheep's brains (not often, but they're OK if there's nothing else on the supermarket shelves) they're in my body (for a while).


----------



## earlybard (Sep 4, 2013)

I've been studying Ayurveda and yoga philosophy quite a lot recently, and yoga actually has quite a lot to say about this. The idea is that with a strong meditation practice, you can directly influence and activate your corporeal self by thinking about it. From a physics perspective, by emitting positive thoughts (in the form of brain waves and hormones) to the rest of your body, those waves will resonate with frequencies found in every cell of every organ. Pretty cool, huh?


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I voted the mind, because that's the thing that holds my morals and values and emotions. It's what makes decisions on how to be a nice guy and how to be selfless etc. which I think is more important than my own physical presence. With the right mind I can choose to be healthy rather than choose to be a slob (I gotta work on this more) and it'll be my mind in the long run that makes me physically fit and healthy. 

However with a mind there will obviously be flaws in one's thoughts and actions every now and then, but upon assessment of these flaws we can learn how to become better people.


----------



## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

Now you can have both.

_And more_


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I think you should be Baaa-rred for that post, Talking Head?!


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I don't think you need to learn how to pray, Ingenue?....
You just Ask....nicely, of course!


----------



## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

The body includes the brain. If the brain does not work properly the mind will not. If the mind does not work properly mental torment will follow. There is no mind separated from the brain and there is no brain separated from body. Between these three there is an interdependent co-arising of causes and effects. So, _both_ are important.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

What you say is right Ondine, in theory...

...but in practice, since we've got limited time we can and do choose what we do with that time. And with that time, we can exercise different parts of ourselves. Each exercise emphasizes different things.

Examples:
* Abs
* Arms
* Back
* Legs
* Guitar reflexes
* Solfege
* Math
* Economy
* Psychology
* Knowledge about the different kinds of butterflies
* Interpretation of classical music

summary: In theory, everything is important, in practice, in our lives we don't give the same importance to all things. We emphasize.


----------



## Rehydration (Jun 25, 2013)

Definitely mind.
Our minds can do a lot more than we humans can comprehend.

For example:
-Dull pain
-Repel cold air
-Move our bodies
-Unconsciously remember things
-Create a separate consciousness


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

In the spirit of the grave levity of this occasion: 

I voted "other." And further, I'm not going to explain myself either. So there.


----------



## Guest (Sep 13, 2013)

Kleinzeit said:


> Now you can have both.
> 
> _And more_


I wouldn't trust David Cronenberg with either my mind or body



Art Rock said:


> Body. I have a rather extensive experience in listening to (or perhaps better hearing) symphonies, and I could do with a few kg less.


Well, what about another quartet - or any type of music that you've only limited experience of? ('Symphony' was intended to be representative for any new musical experience).




PetrB said:


> In the spirit of the grave levity of this occasion:





PetrB said:


> I voted "other." And further, I'm not going to explain myself either. So there.




Look, play properly: this is my first poll and it's not as easy as it looks to get the wording right...

ArtMusic? ArtMusic!....Need some help here....!


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I don't think music improves the mind. I think of it as a hedonistic indulgence and a waste of time in the grand scheme of things (time well wasted nonetheless). I prefer learning to exercise, but partake in both. Also, exercise does wonderful things for mental health in addition to bodily health.


I totally agree, music is just a form of elevated entertainment, yes it's deeply emotional and life enhancing but exercising and eating properly is going to be far more beneficial to mind and body.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Although it is not an easy question for anyone to answer definitively, this poll is a great opportunity to discuss our outlooks and priorities in life. So thank you, MacLeod! :tiphat:


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Well, what about another quartet - or any type of music that you've only limited experience of? ('Symphony' was intended to be representative for any new musical experience).
> 
> Look, play properly: this is my first poll and it's not as easy as it looks to get the wording right...


I took this literally when I answered. I still think "other" - see below.

Playing "properly" on TC usually involves lots and lots of hair splitting - a nightmare of split ends and infinitives going boldly where no forum has gone before. 



presto said:


> I totally agree, music is just a form of elevated entertainment, yes it's deeply emotional and life enhancing but exercising and eating properly is going to be far more beneficial to mind and body.


If you're going to plug _"mens sana in corpore sano_" remember the rest of it:

_monstro quod ipse tibi possis dare; semita certe
tranquillae per uirtutem patet unica uitae._

(the only path to a life of peace is virtue - Juvenal Satire X lines 363-364)

That's also why I chose other.

PS Nice poll. :cheers:


----------



## Guest (Sep 13, 2013)

presto said:


> I totally agree, music is just a form of elevated entertainment, yes it's deeply emotional and life enhancing but exercising and eating properly is going to be far more beneficial to mind and body.


_Far _more beneficial? Inasmuch as eating and exercising are essential to life, I suppose so, but music is also spiritually uplifting, culturally and socially beneficial, intellectually demanding...

I wish my son would exercise and weight train a little less and listen to music a little more; and I daresay I could vice-versa!



Ingenue said:


> Although it is not an easy question for anyone to answer definitively, this poll is a great opportunity to discuss our outlooks and priorities in life. So thank you, MacLeod! :tiphat:


My pleasure. I must say I'm surprised that some TCers have put music further down the list of priorities than I might have imagined. I assumed, mistakenly, that the essential nature of bodily existence would be taken for granted.



Taggart said:


> Playing "properly" on TC usually involves lots and lots of hair splitting - a nightmare of split ends and infinitives going boldly where no forum has gone before.


Yes, I wondered whether to say 'play nice' rather than 'properly' but I suspect the hair-splitting might still have occurred.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

this is the strangest poll yet. Congrats!


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

MacLeod, well, I do enjoy music a lot, and it can give me a lot of emotions and put me in moods and give me joy... but I still think it's hedonistic. I don't think listening to music has made me a "better" human being. If your goal is to become "virtuous" there are a lot of more appropiate things to do.


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Yes, I wondered whether to say 'play nice' rather than 'properly' but I suspect the hair-splitting might still have occurred.


Certainly would, if you wanted us to make nice distinctions!


----------



## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

"Mind and body cannot be seperated for purposes of treatment"

This is a favorite medical quote of mine, and one I really believe in. Mind and body are inextricably linked. To care for one, you must care for the other. Ealier this summer I spent a couple of months very seriously dedicated to my physical health, and I found I had significant improvement in how I felt mentally. Now some of those healthy habits have fallen by the wayside, but this week I have started making them priority again. On the flip side, mental exercise has been proven to decrease risk of alzheimer's dementia, a physical brain illness. Again, mind and body linked.


And who says you have to choose? One of my favorite ways to spend a lunch break is to walk the beach with a Mahler symphony on my iPod. Win win.


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

An admirable post, Sonata...you are so correct in all you say (though I think I wouldn't have had the Mahler on my iPod for a beach walk....though at the moment, I can't quite think what I would have! Maybe the subject for a new Thread, methinks....'what music might enhance a coastal walk?'


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

Sonata said:


> On the flip side, mental exercise has been proven to decrease risk of alzheimer's dementia, a physical brain illness. Again, mind and body linked.


Not only that. It clearly affects mood, and can even help to decrease depression and anxiety. In my case, I like to dance (not to classical thought), which is a sort of exercise, and even doing it like 20 mins affects my mood greatly for the better.


----------



## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I always listen to music because of its necessary & beneficial effects on mood & thereby on my good mental/physical health. 
I couldn't manage without music, methinks...I love the resource ...& comfort of it in a crazy-world.... 
It allows one to enjoy the quality of thought & of personal character that one has put a lifetime of learning... & surviving the trials of life...into achieving.
I'm happy in my little mental oasis in that regard ..& even happier at the well of refreshment, that is Music.


----------



## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no color, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects.
Without software (mind), the hardware (body) is just a 'dead thing'. The hardware (body) is of course important in what the computer can do; how fast it is, which programs can be run, and how the computer can interact with the world. However good the hardware is, it can ultimately only perform what the program 'knows'. The hardware can get damaged, or even 'die', and the software can be moved onto another set of hardware;


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Music performance is where the heart, the mind, and the hand all come together in perfect symbiosis. That is what I do today. Body and Soul are not segregated.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

cwarchc said:


> What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no color, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects.
> Without software (mind), the hardware (body) is just a 'dead thing'. The hardware (body) is of course important in what the computer can do; how fast it is, which programs can be run, and how the computer can interact with the world. However good the hardware is, it can ultimately only perform what the program 'knows'. The hardware can get damaged, or even 'die', and the software can be moved onto another set of hardware;


Great analogy. I'm hoping our programmes will be saved.


----------



## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> Great analogy. I'm hoping our programmes will be saved.


It takes effort and understanding, to make the steps
It's a long journey


----------



## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Mind over body. Spirit/soul (whichever you want to call it) over _both_.

Our bodies scientifically work in this way: We are born, we grow and develop, and once we are mature, the body starts sending chemical/hormonal "signals," and you all know the rest. Sadly, many college students seem to choose body over mind _completely_, leading them down the wrong path.

Even so, if we let our minds do everything, well, there are many things that cannot be explained or understood by the human mind (where Religion comes in, but let's not get into that right now....)

So I say soul. But all three are very important, and each must get a certain amount of attention. For example, being negligent of your body, as I am currently being negligent of my hand which is numb from cold  , may result in physical harm, and in my current case, my not being able to play piano until my hand warms up.

Opinion, but I suppose a valid one? 

1. Soul 
2. Mind 
3. Body


----------



## Musician (Jul 25, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> Body. I have a rather extensive experience in listening to (or perhaps better hearing) symphonies, and I could do with a few kg less.


Losing weight is a mind decision not a body one...


----------



## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Musician said:


> Losing weight is a mind decision not a body one...


Losing weight? We went from mind over matter to weight loss? Search "weight loss" on google images, the cartoon of the girl in blue is hysterical (if we're talking about the same one...)!


----------



## Ryan (Dec 29, 2012)

“Our culture encourages us to plan every moment and fill our schedules with one activity and obligation after the next, with no time to just be. But the human body and mind require downtime to rejuvenate. I have found my greatest moments of joy and peace just sitting in silence, and then I take that joy and peace with me out into the world.” 
― T. Rollier

I think we can all take something away from that, thanks for sharing guys


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ryan said:


> "Our culture encourages us to plan every moment and fill our schedules with one activity and obligation after the next, with no time to just be. But the human body and mind require downtime to rejuvenate. I have found my greatest moments of joy and peace just sitting in silence, and then I take that joy and peace with me out into the world."
> ― T. Rollier
> 
> I think we can all take something away from that, thanks for sharing guys


Backing that up, it is our brain, not our body, that requires sleep.


----------



## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Backing that up, it is our brain, not our body, that requires sleep.


Incorrect. It is vital for the body's healing process to get adequate sleep.


----------



## Katie (Dec 13, 2013)

Thankfully my ipod renders this question largely moot. Moreover, I have never been at an optimal level of emotional or cognitive functioning when out of shape. 

But, I do understand the o/p's premise, so - given my last comment - would have to opt for activity to improve physical health, as pursuit of any purely mental activity would be compromised./K


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Opie, don't you mean car or body?

View attachment 30493


----------

