# Recommend Some Symphonists/Symphonies



## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Which composers/symphonies should I explore? I haven't listened to much classical music, and so now that I'm compelled to intensively study it I'm totally at sea.

I just started playing the flute and that was my impetus to start paying more attention to the details in the music. I possess very little musical education though I began listening to classical music as background, particularly symphonies, in college. 

Anyway, now that I'm learning how to read music, I find myself far more engaged by classical music than I ever was before. I've been particularly addicted to exploring symphonies because they were the roots of my longstanding passive interest in classical music. I used to listen to a lot of Sibelius, Bruckner, and Tchaikovsky as background music. Love Sibelius No. 2 and Tchaikovsky No. 4. Messiaen intrigued me a lot though I can't recall which works I possess. (All my CDs, mostly bootlegs, are boxed up.) 

Ever since more "actively" listening to symphonies (since playing the flute) I'm loving Howard Hanson (2 and 3 especially). I'm doing an obligatory Beethoven study as well. Last few weeks I've been listening to Mahler. Mahler's 9th (especially the last movement) is great but it seems he definitely takes more time to process than Sibelius--which is a good thing. I would describe Mahler as a more "challenging" composer. I think it'll take awhile to absorb all 10. Listening to Brahms No. 4 while I write this and it sounds pretty damn good. 

Anyway, based on the tastes I've mentioned above, any recommendations? There is so much out there that I don't know where to invest my time. I 

Also, any symphonies that emphasize flutes?

And...can anyone recommend a book that introduces the symphonic form and would heighten appreciation and deepen analysis for a listener?

Thanks!


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Also, enjoyed Beethoven 5 and 9 very much, but wonder how much I'm influenced by the clout and the music less so.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

The TC 150 Recommended Symphonies is a great place to look! Some of the symphonies you mentioned at very near (if not at) the top of the list, so you'll definitely find symphonies you like in there.  

Have fun exploring the endlessly exciting world of symphonies!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

FluteFool said:


> I used to listen to a lot of Sibelius, Bruckner, and Tchaikovsky as background music. Love Sibelius No. 2 and Tchaikovsky No. 4. Messiaen intrigued me a lot though I can't recall which works I possess. (All my CDs, mostly bootlegs, are boxed up.)
> 
> Ever since more "actively" listening to symphonies (since playing the flute) I'm loving Howard Hanson (2 and 3 especially). I'm doing an obligatory Beethoven study as well. Last few weeks I've been listening to Mahler. Mahler's 9th (especially the last movement) is great but it seems he definitely takes more time to process than Sibelius--which is a good thing. I would describe Mahler as a more "challenging" composer. I think it'll take awhile to absorb all 10. Listening to Brahms No. 4 while I write this and it sounds pretty damn good.


Well, start by filling in the gaps with composers you know you enjoy. Since most of your choices are romantic, check out the symphonies of Schumann (start with 3) and Schubert (especially the last two) as well. From the 20th century, Shostakovich is the most prominent symphonist, although most agree you can safely skip #2 and #3 out of his 15. Go for 5 first. Since you enjoy Hanson, you can try the American symphonies of William Schuman and Aaron Copland. Since you are interested in Messiaen (whose symphony is called the Turangalila), why not try out the very diverse 4 symphonies of Roussel?

There's a lot to explore. You don't have to rush.



FluteFool said:


> And...can anyone recommend a book that introduces the symphonic form and would heighten appreciation and deepen analysis for a listener?


Aaron Copland's _What to Listen for in Music_ has a good reputation as a text geared towards the layman without being dumbed down. I haven't read it personally, though.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Here you go. http://www.talkclassical.com/17996-compilation-tc-top-recommended.html


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks for your suggestions!

Yes, Mahlerian, I neglected to mention that I'm very familiar with three or four Shostakovich symphonies which I used to listen to in college. They were wonderful, but as I recall a little dark for spring. With all the unexplored terrain ahead of me I think I'll wait to revisit them until the weather starts getting nasty again.

I also forgot Ralph Vaughan-Williams, the last composer I really got into before I started playing flute. I used to listen to the second movement of the London Symphony on repeat. 

Prominent flute symphonies anyone?

Now playing Brahms No. 3.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Top-ten symphonies from an Internet poll:

1 - Ludwig van Beethoven 9th D minor "Choral" 
2 - Ludwig van Beethoven 3rd E-Flat "Eroica" 
3 - Ludwig van Beethoven 5th c minor 
4 - Gustav Mahler 2nd c minor "Resurrection" 
5 - Ludwig van Beethoven 6th F major "Pastoral" 
6 - Anton Bruckner 8th c minor 
7 - Gustav Mahler 5th c sharp minor 
8 - Gustav Mahler 9th D major 
9 - Anton Bruckner 7th E major 
10 - Johannes Brahms 4th e minor

Pretty beef-and-potatos, and Ludwig's 7th is missing!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

FluteFool said:


> Prominent flute symphonies anyone?


A lot of symphonies have flute solos in them for sections, but rarely does one instrument dominate the whole, especially before the 20th century. The word symphony comes from the Greek for "sounding together". There are flute concertos, though. Maybe you should look for those.


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Right, I heard flutes figured significantly in Schubert's 4th but couldn't tell after one listen.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

FluteFool said:


> Right, I heard flutes figured significantly in Schubert's 4th but couldn't tell after one listen.


Reading along in the score can help you to catch details you would otherwise miss.

If you're interested, there's a great collection of copyright-free scores on imslp.org. You can find just about anything before the 20th century, and a few things from then as well.


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Wow, what a terrific resource, Mahlerian. I was getting tired of playing "traditional American folk songs" out of my lesson book.

Listening to Brahms No. 4 again right now. I think I have a new favorite...


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## userfume (Nov 21, 2012)

1st movement of Dvorak's 8th has a really nice flutey bit.
1st movement of Shostakovich's 15th also has a really big flute part


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Einar Englund*´s "Blackbird" symphony (no.2) has a good deal of flute solos. Panula´s recording is broader and more lyrically beautiful than this one (Naxos?) 




*Vagn Holmboe*´s 1st is great and has a lot of wind writing, including much for flute


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Well I haven't managed to explore much further than Beethoven and Brahms since starting this thread. One reason is that there is so much LWB material to explore and the other reason is I couldn't stop listening to Brahms 4 over and over again. 

My general impressions so far:

Beethoven 5 and 7 are my favorites of the LwB cycle. 
Brahms 4 is certainly my favorite Brahms, especially 1st and 2nd movements. The motif recapitulations (especially in 1st movement) are really exciting in my opinion.

Just started Mendelssohn and the final movement of No. 1, which I'm listening to now, shows some dynamism which will definitely make me take a second listen. The andante was quite compelling as well. 

I'm hoping to soon develop a better musical vocabulary in order to more articulately and accurately report back.


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

I would recommend just simply listening to more and more of your current favorite composers and get a stronger feel for their style and music. As Mahlerian mentioned, Copeland's book "What to Listen for in Music" is a excellent and concise guide to your situation, and I am verifying this by saying I have read it personally. For further exploration I suggest Dvorak: his symphonies, in particular No. 9, have immediate appeal that has created many fans worldwide.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Let me recommend the obvious French romantic symphonies, since they haven't been mentioned. Saint-Saëns 3rd, Berlioz' "Symphonie Fantastique" and especially Franck's symphony in D. These are easy to get into and very rewarding.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Mozart 39, 40, 41

Beethoven 3 - the most ground-breaking symphony.

Beethoven 6 - the loveliest

Schubert 8


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

Ok. Tried out Brahms 3 again and it is just not working for me like 4. The melodies aren't as memorable. The piece doesn't seem as cohesive as a whole nor within each movement. 4 just has a tight construction that is irresistible to me. There does not seem to be a wasted note.

I've been going through some more stuff I downloaded on my mp3 player before soliciting recommendations from this forum. Ned Rorem was good enough to make me want to revisit his three symphonies in the future. Roy Harris' 3rd made me sit up and take notice. David Diamond hasn't left a lasting impression--yet. I continue to familiarize myself with the details in Hanson. 

Now I'm going to wade on into your recommendations, though what I've heard from Mozart's 40 hasn't really grabbed me. Symphonies before Beethoven often sound "sterile" to me, but maybe that's due to an untrained ear. 

The French symphonies I hadn't considered at all, so I'll probably be checking them out very soon. I bet Symphonie Fantastique will sound familiar to me. 

I have all 10 of Mahler's symphs looming on my MP3 player but I'm waiting until I can sit down and focus on one from start to finish before I dig into that heap again. Now I just put on the last movement of 9 when I have a half an hour to kill. 

I requested the Copland book from my local library. Eagerly awaiting its arrival.


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## davinci (Oct 11, 2012)

FluteFool said:


> Ok. Tried out Brahms 3 again and it is just not working for me like 4. The melodies aren't as memorable. The piece doesn't seem as cohesive as a whole nor within each movement. 4 just has a tight construction that is irresistible to me. There does not seem to be a wasted note.
> 
> I have all 10 of Mahler's symphs looming on my MP3 player but I'm waiting until I can sit down and focus on one from start to finish before I dig into that heap again. Now I just put on the last movement of 9 when I have a half an hour to kill.


I feel the same way about Brahms No.3 as you. As far as waiting on Mahler, I think that is a wise decision. Also, I believe a Mahler symphony needs to be listened to as a whole. He writes the entire work as a complete thought or feeling, more so than any other composer I can think of.


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## CyrilWashbrook (Feb 6, 2013)

A couple of further recommendations of symphonies you may enjoy: Dvorak 5 - an upbeat, summery composition that, like many of his works, includes many nice passages for flute and other woodwinds - and Rott's symphony in E major.

(If you like the latter, there unfortunately isn't much else of his to explore because of the shortness of his life, his destruction of an indeterminate number of his own compositions, and the fact that his music has really only been revisited in the last couple of decades.)


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Rachmaninoff takes some flak for his symphonies but I enjoy them personally, his 2nd is really good and pretty much embodies romanticism. I'd recommend checking them out!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

For a symphony that combines lyricism and drama try Dvorak 7


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Symphonic Metemorphosis by Hindemith, a synphony is all but name. Magnificent flute soloin third movement.
Shostakovich 5th has good flute moments. The 4th is a wonderful work. 
The finale to Brahms 1st has a good flute part. 
Actually, most symphonies have good parts for the flute. It os quite popular and rather indispensable.


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## Mordred (Mar 15, 2012)

Try Webers Symphonies No. 1 and No. 2! Very accessible and enjoyable.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Mendelssohn No. 3 "Scottish"

Really underrated, imo. The first movement in particular is gorgeously atmospheric.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

Try Mendelssohn 5 too while you're at it.


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## FluteFool (Mar 28, 2013)

I finished reading the Copland book. The chapters on melody, rhythm, harmony, texture, and structure were very useful. The book reminded me to listen to the different melodic stands in polyphonic pieces. Chapters on contemporary music and film read a little too vague to be very informative. The book also made me feel obligated to listen to more baroque, especially Bach, though my natural inclination isn't in that direction. 

It was also interesting to learn Copland's personal assessment of many major composers. In the interests of provoking discussion, I'll wager that he looks more favorably upon Beethoven than Mozart. I'm not going to dig around for citations but while it seems Copland admired Mozart's ability to turn out the perfect incarnation of every form, Copland returns again and again to Beethoven's towering genius (even at the expense of someone like Tchaikovsky). 

As far as what I'm listening to, while continuing to explore Beethoven I also went through a bunch of French romantic symphonies and am just returning to them today. I'm revisiting Saint Saens 3rd Symphony while I write this. Really starting to like it, though I would have turned up the volume on that twinkling piano line in the final movement. I'm not sure Saint Saens composed that piano part to remain supportive material or whether it is a matter of the conductor's interpretation. (I'm listening to Jan Hora's version.) I believe it might be the first time I've heard piano in a symphony.

I just requested Steinberg's "The Symphony" from my local library. It sounds like a logical follow-up for me after reading Copland's book, especially since I'm particularly interested in symphonies. Any thoughts on that book?


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