# I'm writing an Opera



## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

and need some help with the structure. 

So I thought I'd try looking here for someone to answer my questions in private.

Thanking you in advance

:tiphat:


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

What kind of questions? I think people here would love to discuss this.


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

templates that sort of thing


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

templates of tensions


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm here to answer any questions given to me, if I can!


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

may i pm you please ?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

echo said:


> may i pm you please ?


Most certainly


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Template: Woman falls in love, is betrayed, kills self. 

Set in some arbitrary historical period, but with 19th century Western European societal norms. 

Write at least one aria for the leading soprano and tenor apiece, as well as a love duet. 

Fill out out cast with a bass (villain), a couple baritones (humor relief), and a mezzo soprano ("voice of reason" foil to the soprano). A self reflective ensemble between them is a good idea. 

Hire somebody to write a libretto. Fill in with music. Overture is optional.


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

Couchie said:


> Template: Woman falls in love, is betrayed, kills self.
> 
> Set in some arbitrary historical period, but with 19th century Western European societal norms.
> 
> ...


excellent -- thank you very much


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Excellent advice from Couchie ... he makes it sound so easy I might give it a try.

(don't forget to include a ballet if it's to be performed in Paris.)


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

ballet sounds expensive -- i just get some clowns maybe jazz clowns if i can afford them


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Template: Woman falls in love, is betrayed, kills self.
> 
> Set in some arbitrary historical period, but with 19th century Western European societal norms.
> 
> ...


Overture is required for EVERY ACT!!!!! And it must be performed so it runs right into the opening scene of each without a break for applause! And don't forget a lengthy solo for the cor anglais!


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I posted this on another thread ages ago. So simple...why aren't we all doing it?

_How to score a bel canto opera:

Start with a musical flourish (Ta Dah!). It has served magicians for years - it'll work for us as well. Then break out the oompah band. Oompah Oompah Oompah. Add some hurdy-gurdy woodwinds over the top. More oompahs.

We need an aria. Quickly dismiss anyone with a hint of a chest voice. We need a melancholic long-lined melody. Now drop in the first piano theme from Chopin's 1st piano concerto. Why wasn't this guy writing opera? Stuff in some runs, trills and leaps. Call it Teneri figli. No one will notice the similarities.

Arioso. Arioso.

More oompahs and hurdy-gurdy woodwinds.

Next aria. No time for anything complex. I've got three more operas to write before Friday. Any legato will do. Throw in The Beatles' Yesterday. Ornament. Ornament. Ornament.

Arioso. Arioso.

Wagner frequently pooh-poohed bel canto but he was just a big fibber. Let's pinch something from Das Liebesverbot for the next aria. Florid melodies and chord patterns. Wagner was a wannabe Italian. Let's pinch the overture as well - even those Ring Cycle maniacs won't know it.

More oompahs. Hurdy-gurdy woodwinds.

30 minute crescendo to fool everyone into thinking this is building up to something.

Curtain. End of Act I.

For Act II, we'll do exactly the same thing but finish with 9 high Cs. The audience will go ape._


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> Wagner frequently pooh-poohed bel canto but he was just a big fibber.
> I]


Wagner always expressed admiration for Bellini. No fibbing.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Wagner always expressed admiration for Bellini. No fibbing.


I know he liked Norma and its long melodies, but did he really like Bellini?


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Overture is required for EVERY ACT!!!!!


Who doesn't like overtures? So I suggest an overture for EACH SCENE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> I posted this on another thread ages ago. So simple...why aren't we all doing it?
> 
> _How to score a bel canto opera:
> 
> ...


#

Do you really have to bring it up again? It wasn't that funny the first time.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Itullian said:


> I know he liked Norma and its long melodies, but did he really like Bellini?


Two Wagner quotes.

"Bellini's music and particularly his vocal melody, has of late excited so much attention, and kindled so much enthusiasm, even in Germany, the land of the learned…Melody is in short the language in which a man should impart his musical thoughts to others, and if this be not as independently constructed and conserved as every other cultivated language should be, how shall he make himself understood?"

Wagner called Bellini the "gentle Sicilian," and suggested that his flowing melodies had the unique italiante capacity for "bel canto" expressiveness.

"We must not be ashamed to shed a tear and express emotion. It is not a crime to believe in this music. People think that I detest the entire Italian school, in particular Bellini. This is not true - a thousand times no! Bellini is my first preference, because there is strength in his vocal writing, and his music lends itself so perfectly to the original text .... Of all Bellini's operas, Norma is the one which unites the richest flow of melody with the deepest glow of truth .... I admire Norma's melodic inspiration, which joins the most intimate passion to the most profound reality; a great score that talks straight to the heart - a work of genius."


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Agree with RW on Norma.
You know of any other quotes from him on Italian opera?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Two Wagner quotes.
> 
> "Bellini's music and particularly his vocal melody, has of late excited so much attention, and kindled so much enthusiasm, even in Germany, the land of the learned…Melody is in short the language in which a man should impart his musical thoughts to others, and if this be not as independently constructed and conserved as every other cultivated language should be, how shall he make himself understood?"
> 
> ...


Thanks for these, Greg. I'd forgotten what beautiful tributes they are. I recall, but can't quote, another remark he made, contrasting the ponderous and arid complexities of contemporary German music with the direct expressiveness of Italian. Maybe a little irony there, although Wagner's music can hardly be accused of aridity.

We should recall that Wagner conducted a wide range of opera at the Dresden Court Theatre in the 1840s and so knew intimately the music of which he spoke. Pretty good training for writing operas, but unfortunately not available to most of us!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Two Wagner quotes.
> 
> "Bellini's music and particularly his vocal melody, has of late excited so much attention, and kindled so much enthusiasm, even in Germany, the land of the learned…Melody is in short the language in which a man should impart his musical thoughts to others, and if this be not as independently constructed and conserved as every other cultivated language should be, how shall he make himself understood?"
> 
> ...


Awesome citation(s).

Before one listens with brave new ears to the music of the <ahem!> twentieth century, perhaps one should start first with the nineteenth.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> #
> 
> Do you really have to bring it up again? It wasn't that funny the first time.


What's that word?-- that word where you're lying on the operating table, dead?

Oh yeah!-- 'flatlining.'

The monologue's too dull. One should put more life into one's dying.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Ok, here's my real advice, for anyone writing an opera...

put some damn tunes in it! Go on, I dare you.


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## TravisTouchdown (Aug 17, 2014)

No, NO NO NO FFS!!!

Do ppl listen to opera because they have a sexual fetish for costumes? Aren't there enuff of that junk already?

Create something with REAL emotion, something that appeals to people living TODAY. Something that looks and sounds less like a museum, and is less pompous. 

I'd say create an opera about terrorism, flight highjacking, or maybe a natural catastrophe like ebola breakout. Maybe play with gender roles, using transgenders (suitable role for mezzos and counter-tenors), more bass soloists (John Rambo or Jason Statham role). Or if you want it more timeless, make an opera about friends with benefits. If Lana Del Ray can make a beautiful song called "I ****** my way to the top", then you can make a song called "I am ******* tired of ******* when I love you"

Use a lot of woodwinds, as they not only sound good, they seem more appropriate to match with the lip-action theme.


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## TravisTouchdown (Aug 17, 2014)

I can't believe this forum actually censors grown ppl's language. And thus, censoring SONG TEXTS.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

TravisTouchdown said:


> I can't believe this forum actually censors grown ppl's language. And thus, censoring SONG TEXTS.


That's because most ppl here are able to communicate without using profanities. Welcome to the forum.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Alexander said:


> That's because most ppl here are able to communicate without using profanities.


True--but that's only since we all agreed to stop participating in threads about Ludovico Einaudi.


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## TravisTouchdown (Aug 17, 2014)

Most people enjoy pop music coming out of crappy sounding speakers with files that have removed the majority of the original sound. Since when did "most people" become a proof of a preference being correct or the only legitimate? Profanities are modulators and class designators. By using a lot of profanities, I designate myself as being unpretentious, non-stuck up, cool, trendy, young and hip. I also manage to put emphasis without using caps lock. Profanities in general are great, and should be used to a greater extent. When I started listening to English 25 years ago, I was influenced by professional singers and actors who break the bounds of what is considered acceptable, just as good musicians should. I was not influenced by some ******* religious mid-western extremists. Of course people should be able to stick to their true identity on a musical forum. Have you guys honestly not heard of integrity and staying true to your origin before?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

GregMitchell said:


> Two Wagner quotes.
> 
> "Bellini's music and particularly his vocal melody, has of late excited so much attention, and kindled so much enthusiasm, even in Germany, the land of the learned…Melody is in short the language in which a man should impart his musical thoughts to others, and if this be not as independently constructed and conserved as every other cultivated language should be, how shall he make himself understood?"
> 
> ...


Hardly the oger many portray him to be.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

TravisTouchdown said:


> Most people enjoy pop music coming out of crappy sounding speakers with files that have removed the majority of the original sound. Since when did "most people" become a proof of a preference being correct or the only legitimate? Profanities are modulators and class designators. By using a lot of profanities, I designate myself as being unpretentious, non-stuck up, cool, trendy, young and hip. I also manage to put emphasis without using caps lock. Profanities in general are great, and should be used to a greater extent. When I started listening to English 25 years ago, I was influenced by professional singers and actors who break the bounds of what is considered acceptable, just as good musicians should. I was not influenced by some ******* religious mid-western extremists. Of course people should be able to stick to their true identity on a musical forum. Have you guys honestly not heard of integrity and staying true to your origin before?


Unfortunately for you, you are a guest on a private forum owned by composer Frederik Magle (who is Danish, BTW) and he's not a fan of profanity. When you registered and put the little tick in "accept terms and conditions" you agreed to respect his rules. Take it or leave it.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> Two Wagner quotes.
> 
> "Bellini's music and particularly his vocal melody, has of late excited so much attention, and kindled so much enthusiasm, even in Germany, the land of the learned…Melody is in short the language in which a man should impart his musical thoughts to others, and if this be not as independently constructed and conserved as every other cultivated language should be, how shall he make himself understood?"
> 
> ...


Throw some early Wagner operas in the CD player and the quotes become unnecessary. It's German bel canto.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> Throw some early Wagner operas in the CD player and the quotes become unnecessary. It's German bel canto.


Totally bored with this now! 

Not clever. Not even close!


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