# Best headphones for classical music



## violadude

I'm looking for some recommendations for the best classical music headphones.

Above all, I'm looking for detail. I want to be able to hear all the individual voices with lots of clarity. I would also like the sound to be spacious, not as if the whole orchestra (or string quartet or whatever) is crammed into a tiny box.

Also, and this might be a bit demanding, but I would much prefer it if the cord that connects the headphones to the computer was detachable and replaceable. I've found that out of all the things that are likely to break or wear out, the cord is the most likely to go first and it really IS a shame to have to buy a whole new headset over a worn out cord.


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## ptr

What kind of Budget do You have VD? Are You looking for in-ear or on-ear phones?

I often feel that the electronics that has to drive the headphones are as important as the phones, especially if You aim for loads of detail! (And the headphone output of a laptop/computer is usually not that good!), so calculate for a good headphone amp/dac in to Your budget! (I use a relatively new product from manufacturer iFi called "nano iDSD" USB-dac (>$190) and it is almost as good as my trusty Lynx HiLo Pro DAC ($2500).

Personally I use Sennheiser (HD-800) when I need listening for details, most of Sennheiser's phones I've tried (fx. HD5XX series) are geared towards details, for longer listening sessions I use a pair of AKG K702, that has some (but less) details but feels softer to the ear (I've tried a few other makes, Beyer, Shure, JBL, Philips etc, but my ears say that most of them are far to inflated in the bass area!).

For in-ears I've have used Sony, Sennheiser and Shure, and I feel that all of them have good detail, with Shure perhaps being the best balanced, I've had models e2C and SE315, unfortunately I had a really bad ear infection that forced me to stop using in-ears a few years back..

FWIW; With the market being flooded by headphone marks these day's my suggestions just reflect my (lack of) experience! :tiphat:

/ptr


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## Headphone Hermit

Depends on how much you want to pay, Dude.

Mine are Denon AH-D 5000 and they cost about 500 pounds four years ago









They are comfortable, even for a long opera, and the sound quality is really good - you can almost hear separate strings in the orchestra .... no, not violin, cello etc , but that there are separate cellos, violas etc in there). The cable is still fine but the stubble on my face has worn the earpads a bit and they could do with being replaced shortly.

The best bet is for you to go to a good hi-fi shop with a handful of your favourite CDs of different genres and spend a few hours listening to what they have using equipment similar to what you have at home. A good shop will be fine with this, so long as you talk to them about it first (and are prepared to spend a bit)


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## violadude

Hey, thanks for the advice! I had no idea about the external plugs for my headphones. I'll have to check that out. Do those plug into my computer and make the sound better or something?

And, I vastly prefer on ear (or around ear) headphones to in ear ones.


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## ptr

The iDSD (there are several other makes that have similar functions) are hooked to one of the USB ports on Your computer and replace both the built in sound card and headphone amp (Often a driver need to be installed).. Most of them also have good quality audio outputs (RCA plugs) so You can also hook it up to Your HiFi-System if You have one!

/ptr


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## ptr

violadude said:


> And, I vastly prefer on ear (or around ear) headphones to in ear ones.


Just like H-Hermit says, wisk down to your local HiFi-store and try some phones! (Only You can tell if the detail and comfort of a phone suits Your ears.. And even if it might me a buck or so cheaper on the internet, comfort and feel rarely translated well virtually!)

/ptr


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## shadowdancer

One of the best cost / benefit that I tried is the BeyerDynamic DT660 Premium
http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-...?ie=UTF8&qid=1397399646&sr=8-1&keywords=dt660
A fellow TC member posted a nice review here about this headphone applied to classical music
http://www.head-fi.org/t/559542/i-t...est-classical-music-headphones-ive-ever-heard


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## Arsakes

The more you pay, the better you get. 
Hint > Choose praised trademarks

Alas, I can't pay price of a laptop for a headphone! Still my 30$ Sony headphone is working well and the quality is "very good". Hint > There are levels beyond 'very good'!


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## Dustin

If your looking for great headphones, PLEASE look into these:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic...399801&sr=8-2&keywords=audio+technica+ath-m50

The Audio Technica ATH-M50's are what I have and they are unbelievable sounding and they cost $140. They run perfectly off of phones or laptops without any need for extra amps or anything. If you check out the reviews on Amazon, you'll see it has over 3,000 reviews and an average of 4.7 which is pretty amazing. I've come across piles of reviews from many sources who says these are by far the best in that price range and compare with those that are hundreds more. If you want to test them first, I think places like Guitar Center have them or whatever your closest big music store is.


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## violadude

ptr said:


> Just like H-Hermit says, wisk down to your local HiFi-store and try some phones! (Only You can tell if the detail and comfort of a phone suits Your ears.. And even if it might me a buck or so cheaper on the internet, comfort and feel rarely translated well virtually!)
> 
> /ptr


Do I even have a local HIFI store?? 

Everything's all about the Best Buys and the Walmarts these days.

Damn kids...


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## GioCar

I love the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones for classical music!

Very transparent and neutral, plenty of details, they also have a wide and natural soundstage.

I have the following models:

Beyer T1: possibly the best but not suitable to be plugged directly to the PC, it requires external amplification and a very good source (unfortunately this is not the case for most built in PC sound cards). Price over 1.000$

Beyer DT880: very close to the T1 (but the price is nearly 1/3), it sounds better with an amp but it works well also without (the 32 ohm version)

Beyer DT660: a very underrated headphone which sounds wonderfully with classical music! It can be plugged directly to your PC or to any mobile devices (iPod, etc...). It's a closed headphone (it blocks some external noise) and costs about 200$. 

None of them unfortunately have detachable cord...

The Sennheiser HD800 is considered to be the best dynamic headphone, not only for classical music, and has the detachable cord but an excellent source and an excellent amplification are mandatory... A good headphone sounds better but is much less forgiving than a poor one...

Honestly I don't like very much the ATH-M50 for classical, too bass-heavy

Test them before buying.


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## Tristan

I hate buying headphones, not gonna lie. I can test some in the store, sure, but the store might be loud or they only have rock music playing through them and that doesn't tell me what they will be like with classical, etc. I have the Sennheiser HD 598 headphones and I find them excellent for classical. The HD 650 is a step-up that I might try and get before I go to college. A LOT of detail heard with these headphones, and they were recommended to me by classical fans. 

Both are around ear, but unfortunately, neither model has a detachable cord. Kinda disappointing, considering I've had much cheaper headphones that had detachable cords.


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## Dustin

GioCar said:


> *Honestly I don't like very much the ATH-M50 for classical, too bass-heavy*
> 
> Test them before buying.


Yes definitely test them if you can because I don't agree with their being too much bass at all.


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## Headphone Hermit

Oh really? So I can't listen to my own CDs when I'm picking a set of cans? Oh and you wont turn that dreadful racket down either? You DO realise that I can buy ANY of these headphones on Amazon for up to 20% less than you sell them for here .... and I can send them back, no-questions asked, if I want to?

Now, my friend, just have a little think ..... do you want 500 quid out of my wallet or not?

And if they still say 'no', then free-market economics will bite them where it hurts :devil:


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## Guest

The Sennheiser HD 800 is the best I've owned and heard. My previous 'phones were Stax electrostatics. They had amazing clarity, but the texture of the music sounded thin, and they didn't do deep bass very well. The 800s are just as clear and have far better bass. All of this comes with a $1500 price tag, and you'll need a good amp if your source doesn't have a good built-in headphone amp.


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## bigshot

Full range speakers are the best way to listen to classical music, but if you just can't swing having booming speakers where you live, really good headphones are a good way to go. Narrower range speakers is another option, but for some even that doesn't work.

I recently got a set of the brand new Oppo PM-1 headphones. They are as good as any headphones made... totally balanced response, great dynamics, super low distortion. The big advantage of the Oppos over other flagship headphone models (Sennheiser, Audeze, Stax, HifiMan, etc) is the fact that they don't require amping to perform at their best. The Oppos sound as good direct from the headphone out of the iPhone 5 as they do from a top of the line DAC/headphone amp. They very high sensitivity.

By the way, the Oppos come with two cables and use stock connectors, so replacing the cable is a breeze. Other brands, like Sennheiser use proprietary connectors which makes replacing the cable a costly proposition. Wires should be cheap.


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## Blake

I've really enjoyed my Denon D2000, but they don't make those anymore. So… that doesn't help at all.


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## julianoq

Dustin said:


> If your looking for great headphones, PLEASE look into these:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic...399801&sr=8-2&keywords=audio+technica+ath-m50
> 
> The Audio Technica ATH-M50's are what I have and they are unbelievable sounding and they cost $140. They run perfectly off of phones or laptops without any need for extra amps or anything. If you check out the reviews on Amazon, you'll see it has over 3,000 reviews and an average of 4.7 which is pretty amazing. I've come across piles of reviews from many sources who says these are by far the best in that price range and compare with those that are hundreds more. If you want to test them first, I think places like Guitar Center have them or whatever your closest big music store is.


+1 for the ATH-M50. I have one and love it, it has an amazing sound quality and a low price. I also don't agree that it is bass-heavy, the sound is very balanced in my opinion, and gets even better once you burn it. I have it for more than a year and it is still in a perfect state.


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## Schubussy

I have ATH-M50s too, glad to see they're popular. For the price they're amazing.


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## Andolink

I use a HiFiMan HE-500 planar magnetic (like the Oppo PM-1) headphone and find it to be superb in every way for classical music but HiFiMan is about to come out with two new models, the HE 560 and the HE 400i, which will replace the HE-500 and HE-400. These newer generation planar magnetics from HiFiMan will be lighter weight and generally more comfotable for longer listening sessions and have updated drivers with, from all the advance reports from people who've heard the prototypes, even superior sound quality. 

If I were you I'd wait just a bit until these enter the marketplace and audition them. I'll be sticking with what I have but either one of these new HiFiMan phones would be my first choice if I were looking for a classical music headphone today. The HE-560 is supposed to have an MSRP of $899 and the HE-400i will go for $499. I think HiFiMan offer the best bang for the buck of any manufacturer of planar magnetic headphones in the industry.


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## Guest

I found a pair with a detachable cord - AKG K451s - and they're light and compact. For £50, they're not bad, but I find the sound is slightly 'enclosed' for classical - they're good for pop/rock, with decent bass compared to some other sub-£50ers I've tried.

My main pair are the Grado SR 60i (£89) and they're great - very open (so open they leak sound everywhere, so not much good in company!) and detailed.


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## shadowdancer

Forgot to mention Shure SHR440. 
The convenience of the attachable cable (coiled or straight) combined with a really, I mean really, flat response and the < USD150 price, make this headphone a nice choice as well.


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## Muse Wanderer

I would recommend etymotic in-ear headphones. I personally use the HF2s. 
http://www.etymotic.com/

They have documented highest noise isolation of any earphones or headphones on the market today. (35db - 42db noise isolation)

Once ambient noise is gone then all you hear is blissful music through such well balanced precision matched armature drivers.

Just imagine walking around next to a noisy morning traffic jam and still being able to hear the faintest of notes with the widest dynamic range.


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## senza sordino

I have to ask. How much of a difference does a DAC headphone amp make? I'm no audiophile. At work, I run my iPod through computer speakers. I don't really like headphones.


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## KenOC

senza sordino said:


> I have to ask. How much of a difference does a DAC headphone amp make? I'm no audiophile. At work, I run my iPod through computer speakers. I don't really like headphones.


The iPod seems to have good DACs. If you're playing music from your computer, an outboard DAC can make a pronounced difference (it did for me):

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1397544766&sr=1-12&keywords=dac


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## KRoad

I use different phones depending on the type of music I'm listening to. I find different phones to be the equivalent of listening to music aloud in rooms possessing different acoustic properties. However, as a recording musician I can say that one of the most neutral (flat) set of cans around are the Beyer DT 880s. You really cannot go wrong with these, price, quality, comfort and sound-wise. I recommend starting your search with these...


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## violadude

I'm not really familiar with technical headphone terminology, so I have to ask, is "flat" a good thing? My experience as a performer makes me automatically associate the term "flat" with the acoustics of a room, in which context flat is very much a bad thing.


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## PetrB

violadude said:


> I'm not really familiar with technical headphone terminology, so I have to ask, is "flat" a good thing? My experience as a performer make me automatically associate the term "flat" with the acoustics of a room, in which context flat is very much a bad thing.


Wait for clarification. If there is a horizontal graph of frequency response, any variation in that line would show a tip of balance up or down. Typical is a bit of emphasis toward the bass, and some cosmetics in the treble 'softening the edge a bit' -- i.e. pop music record engineering, and you want 'flat' as in "Full range frequency response" from the highest treble to the lowest bass, with little if any variance.

You have to also filter out those audiophiles who go far beyond what many a practical musician would do. I.e. good full spectrum audio response, and no interest in further cosmetics to enhance or re-balance the recording. One friend said, "I Want to hear it all top to bottom, but as to an amp with a panel of sliders for eq tweaking, or bass boosters, sound surround and all that crap, I don't want it. "I want to hear _what is on the recording_, including if its engineering isn't great." LOL.

(I'm pretty much that school myself -- the more you're in and around live, you know that 1500 money units for your earphones may get you closer listening at home, but it still isn't the real thing.)


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## ptr

Yep, for classical "flat" sound best, those spiffy phones that are geared for Youth consumption and iPhones are often geard with a considerable lift in the bass and upper mid.

/ptr


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## KRoad

ptr said:


> Yep, for classical "flat" sound best.../ptr


Correct, a flat response, in other words does not hype any particular frequency range. My experience has been with the DT 880s that if a mix sounds good in these cans it will translate _reasonably_ well to whatever speaker system you use.

I have a number of up-market(ish) audiophile cans, each with their own particular aural idiosyncracies which I exploit depending on the music I wish to listen to - all claim to be more or less "flat" (but I know this not to be the case from careful listening -with the exception of said DT 880s)

For oratorios, opera and choral music I prefer the DT 990s to warm up and give depth to the bottom-end and add a little sparkle to the tops since I often find these genres to be characteristically bass light

On the odd occasion when I listen to pop, or more often jazz, then I'll go for the AKG Q701, which offer a wider sound stage and a tight and contained bottom end in these traditionally bottom heavy genres - think Scott LaFaro with Bill Evans for example.

For Symphonies I'll go with the Sennheisser HD 650s. A bottom-end that is present, but not hyped like the DT 990s, smooth (some say "veiled") tops and warm mids.

The above are all "open" cans. I also have to "closed" cans: AKG K550 which are comfortable to wear but somewhat brittle and grainy in the top-end and AKG K271 which I use for monitoring when I record acoustic intruments. I wouldn't use either of these for critical listening though.

For critical listening which cans I use is as much influenced by the particular frequency bias of the recording as much as the genre. I know what overall sound I find aesthetically most pleasing to _my_ ear and this will of course vary from person to person. Also to be considered is what kind of shape your ears are in. The older we get the more we lose the ability to hear the higher frequencies - cans/speakers with a bias in this direction can compensate for hearing loss in specific frequency ranges.

At the end of the day which cans work best for you is a very personal choice and, as the saying goes, what is good for the goose may not necessarily be good for the gander.

All of the above mentioned open cans offer detailed listening, with the Q701s coming out slightly ahead on this score but (possibly) at the expense of a certain warmth.


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## PetrB

KRoad said:


> Correct, a flat response, in other words does not hype any particular frequency range. My experience has been with the DT 880s that if a mix sounds good in these cans it will translate _reasonably_ well to whatever speaker system you use.
> 
> I have a number of up-market(ish) audiophile cans, each with their own particular aural idiosyncracies which I expoilt depending on the music I wish to listen to - all claim to be more or less "flat" (but I know this not to be the case from careful listening -with the exception of said DT 880s)
> 
> For oratorios, opera and choral music I prefer the DT 990s to warm up and give depth to the bottom-end and add a little sparkle to the tops since I often find these genres to be characteristically bass light
> 
> On the odd occasion when I listen to pop, or more often jazz, then I'll go for the AKG Q701, which offer a wider sound stage and a tight, but contained bottom end in these traditionally bottom heavy genres - think Scott Le Faro with Bill Evans for example.
> 
> For Symphonies I'll go with the Sennheisser DH 650s. A bottom-end that is present, but not hyped like the DT 990s, smooth (some say "veiled") tops and warm mids.
> 
> However, which cans I use is as much influenced by the particular frequency bias of the recording as much as the genre. I know what overall sound I find aesthetically most pleasing to _my_ ear and this will of course vary from person to person. Also consider, what kind of shape your ears are in. The older we get the more we lose the ability to hear the higher frequencies - cans/speakers with a bias in this direction can compensate for hearing loss in specific frequency ranges.
> 
> At the end of the day what cans work best for you is a very personal choice and, as the saying goes, what is good for the goose may not necessarily be good for the gander.
> 
> All of the above mentioned cans offer detailed listening, with the Q701s coming out slightly ahead on this score but (possibly) at the expense of a certain warmth.


Not to contest any of your preferences, but whatever happened to 'just' a full-response flat across the range audio spectrum and just dealing with what is on the recording? 

And though we all know it is rude to ask, allow me the rudeness, please, out of a kinky curiosity, what kind of total monetary investment is represented by your complete earphone collection? (I find it astonishing that anyone but a recording studio pro engineer, for whom it is a business expense, would pop $1500 for a pair of headphones.)


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## GioCar

PetrB said:


> Not to contest any of your preferences, but whatever happened to 'just' a full-response flat across the range audio spectrum and just dealing with what is on the recording?
> 
> And though we all know it is rude to ask, allow me the rudeness, please, out of a kinky curiosity, what kind of total monetary investment is represented by your complete earphone collection? (I find it astonishing that anyone but a recording studio pro engineer, for whom it is a business expense, would pop $1500 for a pair of headphones.)


When you start to be an audiophile, and not just a music listener, it can be very dangerous for your wallet indeed. 
I can say that because, for a certain period of my life, I was addicted to all sort of hi-end gear and all this stuff. 
If you get into this, it's quite easy to lose the right perspective and exchange "sound" for "music"...

Be careful, violadude...


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## Rangstrom

I prefer clean and neutral sound reproduction (my speakers are B&W 802s) and I get that from the BD T1s, although I would not recommend them for a basic computer setup. They work best with with a separate amp or a component with decent phone output. The other downside is you will discover many flaws otherwise hidden in the mix--prompters in live recordings can be really irritating. Still in the right system the sound is incredible.


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## KRoad

PetrB said:


> Not to contest any of your preferences, but whatever happened to 'just' a full-response flat across the range audio spectrum and just dealing with what is on the recording?
> 
> And though we all know it is rude to ask, allow me the rudeness, please, out of a kinky curiosity, what kind of total monetary investment is represented by your complete earphone collection?


_Whatever happened to 'just' a full-response flat across the range audio spectrum and just dealing with what is on the recording?_

Well, some recordings don't quite meet my tastes... so I could twiddle knobs on the amp, but this would mean additional circuitry and the sound would not be direct from the CD, so I use different phones to compensate according to their own particular aural characterisitics (bias). As I said above, it's like listening to performance from a different seat in the hall and/or hall with different acoustical properties.

_Out of a kinky curiosity, what kind of total monetary investment is represented by your complete earphone collection?
_

I read somewhere that the part of the brain that processes music is quite close to the part that controls kinky, so I don't mind indulging your curiosity at all... Actually, not as expensive as you might think. I mean its all relative. If I pop down the road to the Philharmonie to listen and watch Rattle waving his wand at the BPO, a good seat is gonna cost me around €100.00, give or take.
Now a good set of cans coupled with a good recording will be darn close to the sound I'll get four rows back centre stage - minus the silver shock of curly hair pulsating in sync. with the string section - and I'm spared the cost of the cab to get back home. Not to mention, I can hit the replay button on the remote when the urge takes me. So in that sense it is money well spent. So let me number crunch...
Okay, for the DT990, DT880, Q701 and HD650 - pretty much all audiophile cans - about €1200, or twelve well positioned Rattle gigs if you prefer. Also, like I say, I do spend a lot of time recording so these really are work tools as well for me.


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## bigshot

An equalizer can make one good set of headphones sound like all of your various cans.

Getting great sound isn't complicated or expensive. There's a lot of good midrange equipment that sounds as good as high end gear to human ears. But being an audiophile isn't just about great sound. There's a bit of equipment fetish, shopaholic tendencies, status symbols and **** retentiveness involved.

I'm an old school hifi nut. I just want great sound without all the other stuff. The best way to figure out how to do that is to do a little research into how sound reproduction works and approach it with specific problem solving, not random ugraditis.


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## Orfeo

The Panasonic one (RPDJS400A) is very recommendable: very nice, booming bass and a nice treble. It's definitely ideal for lush orchestral works.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-RPD...7583515&sr=1-25&keywords=panasonic+headphones


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## Svelte Silhouette

bigshot said:


> An equalizer can make one good set of headphones sound like all of your various cans.


As ur advice must also b applicable 2speakers by default it seems all we need is an equaliser fronting any old cans or speakers and we're sorted then.

A bundle of cash saved and evry1's a winner :tiphat:

I'm sure sum1 said speakers were the most important but know it makes sense that GIGO applies as u say.


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## bigshot

If folks are looking for a good equalizer, there are a bunch in the Apple app store. One of them (I forget the name) has correction curves based on the imbalances in specific brands and models of headphones. They went through and balanced for hundreds of different models. You can just select yours and instantly, your cans sound like even better cans.


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## shadowdancer

bigshot said:


> If folks are looking for a good equalizer, there are a bunch in the Apple app store. One of them (I forget the name) has correction curves based on the imbalances in specific brands and models of headphones. They went through and balanced for hundreds of different models. You can just select yours and instantly, your cans sound like even better cans.


Can you give more info about it? Maybe, remember the name of the app? 
Are we talking about OSX App ou IOS App? I understand that there is a library of correction curve per brand? Is that so?

Thanks


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## bigshot

It's an IOS app. I'll see if I can find it.


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## shadowdancer

CanOpener
There is discussion hear in head-fi
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681084/canopener/15
Thanks!


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## Simon Moon

Not to much love for Grado?

I'm a little surprised. They tend to equal or better almost everything in their various price ranges.

The SR125i at $150 are one of the best values in headphones. The lean toward the warm side of things, but are very detailed and have quite extended frequency response.

I own a pair of Grado SR325is, and at under $300. Really amazing headphones.


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## DeepR

I've got the Sennheiser HD 558 and I'm perfectly happy with it. It's a good mid-range product. Cord is detachable. Very comfortable as well.
When I plug it directly into my Creative Titanium HD front headphones out it sounds absolutely wonderful when playing FLAC or high bitrate MP3 (yes, this is actually a very good internal PCIe soundcard).


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## cournot

I think that someone willing to invest a couple of hundred into a mid level headphone system who primarily listens off a computer should get whatever headphone they're comfortable with (Beyer, Senn, Grado, etc.) and also pickup the Audioquest Dragonfly. For $100 it's great basic DAC/amp combination that pays dividends in terms of better sound. So if you get the Dragonfly and a nice pair of phones in the $200 range, you'll be pretty happy for quite some time. Unless of course, this causes you to get bitten by the upgrade bug as you hear more and more interesting detail. In which case, I'm not responsible for the deteriorating state of your pocketbook...


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## KenDuctor

If you haven't purchased any yet, and on a budget, try the lower end sennheiser. I'm purchasing the Hd 439. It has good reviews, affordable, and a detachable cord. Around 70 dollars and less.


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## Stavrogin

I'm gonna ask you guys, and forgive the ignorance, are wifi headphones ok? I mean do they have any particular disadvantage that makes them not worth the cost?


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## GioCar

Do you mean wireless headphones?

Here's an interesting article. It's in Italian, should be ok for you. I wasn't able to find something similar in English, sorry to all others TC friends (but you can use google translator...).

My advice is to go for wired headphones, imo wireless are good for Tv listening only.


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## Stavrogin

GioCar said:


> Do you mean wireless headphones?
> 
> Here's an interesting article. It's in Italian, should be ok for you. I wasn't able to find something similar in English, sorry to all others TC friends (but you can use google translator...).
> 
> My advice is to go for wired headphones, imo wireless are good for Tv listening only.


Uh yes, of course I meant wireless, just a typo, my bad.
Thanks for the article and your opinion, I'll read that straight away.
I hoped they would be good, I hate having to deal with wires and jacks and the likes.


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## peteAllen

I have or have had some great headphones:
- Sennheiser hd650. A dark sounding headphone, that really requires upgrading of the headphone cable (recommend the one from Russ Andrews). Very comfy, easy going and relaxing. Not in the top tier when it comes to detail, soundstage or realism. But, like the hd800, the better your amp is, the better it gets. I've had them for about 10 years and don't think I'll ever sell them.
- Grado GS1000. I didn't get on with this one at all - the treble was far too hot and sibilance an issue, even after considerable burn-in. However, with a perfect, smooth recording, it was fantastic.
- Sennheiser hd800. Extremely detailed, enveloping sound. Its quality scales with partnering quality of source and particularly amplification - if you get that wrong, you won't get the best out of it. While I had these, I got two great headphone amps: the weiss dac202 and the burson ha160d. Both very good with the hd800. Ultimately however I found the hd800 a bit too "hifi" or about the sound rather than the music. I found the treble and bass seemed slightly detached and overall I found it lacked some cohesion. Perhaps they need to be tried with valve amps, as many recommend. Very comfortable and light.
- HiFiMan HE-5LE. Creamy, lush, detailed, vivid sound. Absolutely loved these, except... they only sound great at high volume. The quieter they play, the less vivid they sound, and this spoiled them for me, unfortunately. I tried a variety of amps to get the best out of them at low volume, but in the end I returned them before the 30 day return period ran out.
- Beyerdynamic T1. Much more cohesive sound, very musical, exciting sound, with an amazing treble and midrange. Very realistic, "live" kind of experience. The balance is on the bright side however, and the bass is a little light. I couldn't compare this directly to the hd800, but I'd say the soundstage is not as big or 3 dimensional, but in other ways I prefer it. Possibly the most detailed headphone I've listened to. Not that fussy with amplification, you don't need to spend much, the least demanding of all headphones in this list, just choose something with a punchy bass and capable of fairly high voltage (as you need for all these headphones really). Very comfortable.
- Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2. Not quite as detailed as the hd800 or T1 (especially in the treble), however there is something very "right" and effortless about their sound. You are on the front row or actually on stage, compared to the 5th row with the T1. Bass is outstanding. A little heavy and a bit clamping, nevertheless I can happily wear these for over an hour. The sound is actually very good with an average amp, but with great amplification it scales beautifully

Overall, my preference would be Audeze, T1, then HD800. However, it would probably depend more on the partnering amp than anything else.


----------



## Guest

Do tube headphone amps have less low bass than solid state? I've read a few reviews that mention such an issue. I've been considering a Schiit Audio Lyr or a Woo Audio WA6 for tubes, or a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP for my HD 800s.


----------



## peteAllen

Kontrapunctus said:


> Do tube headphone amps have less low bass than solid state? I've read a few reviews that mention such an issue. I've been considering a Schiit Audio Lyr or a Woo Audio WA6 for tubes, or a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP for my HD 800s.


A common generalisation is that solid state amps do bass better and cleaner than tube amps. Not sure that they commonly have less bass though, it may just err on the woollier side. Personally I think that although presence of bass is important for classical - especially orchestral - the quality of it is less important than for other genres. I've only ever had one tube amp, and its bass was good, however it was all about the sweet, liquid midrange.

I believe the Woo Audio WA6 was recommended for HD 800s, and the Shiit amps have a great reputation despite their name. Of course, don't forget the source / dac, as the hd800 will ruthlessly expose every detail as well as fault. There are plenty of reviews out there on the hd800 which compare amps. Ideally you need to try these out, some hifi shops have demo amps & headphones, or take advantage of any 30 day return offers or something like canjam.


----------



## Guest

^^ I'll be using my Oppo 105 as the source. There aren't too many places near me with a selection of headphone amps. I'll probably go with the Woo WA6.


----------



## peteAllen

Sounds good although I saw a post on headfi about the wa6 not being powerful enough? Might be worth investigating more on the internet. It's always a gamble buying without trying. Good luck.


----------



## Guest

Well, I don't like to listen at deafening volumes, so that might not be an issue. My Oppo provides enough volume to the 800s; I'm just curious to see if a separate amp would provide better sound. (It's quite good as it is, but it can always be better, right?)


----------



## Muse Wanderer

Thanks to this thread I did a bit of research and I am now considering buying the Audeze LCD-3 headphones.

They look great even though their price is staggering to say the least.

I am still unsure about which headphone amplifier I should purchase without breaking the bank. I got a musical fidelity M6i amplifier with built in DAC I could pair it with.

Just have a look at this...


----------



## peteAllen

Muse Wanderer said:


> Thanks to this thread I did a bit of research and I am now considering buying the Audeze LCD-3 headphones.
> 
> They look great even though their price is staggering to say the least.
> 
> I am still unsure about which headphone amplifier I should purchase without breaking the bank. I got a musical fidelity M6i amplifier with built in DAC I could pair it with.


Audeze works very well with my Burson ha-160d. Maybe try the Soloist or a second hand ha-160?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/burson-audio-soloist-headphone-amplifier-page-2


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

I don't like tiny people in my head so don't use headphones.

I prefer bigger people on an imaginary stage in front of me.


----------



## peteAllen

I prefer real people on a real stage in front of me

Although even then it can disappoint (I'm particularly thinking of when I saw Pollini playing Beethoven recently - it was so appalling, he obviously had trouble finishing many phrases, I've never felt so bad for a performer before)


----------



## Muse Wanderer

peteAllen said:


> Audeze works very well with my Burson ha-160d. Maybe try the Soloist or a second hand ha-160?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/burson-audio-soloist-headphone-amplifier-page-2


Thanks for the advice. I would like to just buy a good amp that will serve me for years to come. The best hifi equipment is way too expensive to buy new so I usually opt for second hand in order to have good quality equipment. Worked well for my hifi setup.

The Burson soloist looks good. I may opt for the Burson conductor as the it has a 32bit ESS SABRE32 Reference DAC built in.


----------



## Muse Wanderer

RudyKens said:


> I don't like tiny people in my head so don't use headphones.
> 
> I prefer bigger people on an imaginary stage in front of me.


Absolutely! :tiphat:

And hearing them live is even better.

In the real world on most days I can only properly listen to music in my car on the way to work, or after 10pm when everyone else is sleeping. Not the best use of my Monitor Audio GX100 with impressive bass coupled with my amp having two discrete monobloc amplifiers.

Thus the need for a good pair of headphones that far exceed my current in-ear noise isolating headphones in terms of bass and quality of sound. The problem with any headphone setup is that the complete stereo separation of the two channels can be tiring at times. There are equipment that mix the music in a way that simulates front end speakers but I prefer to listen to music unaltered by my equipment, a kind of 'less is more approach'.


----------



## bigshot

RudyKens said:


> I don't like tiny people in my head so don't use headphones. I prefer bigger people on an imaginary stage in front of me.


5:1 is best for that because adding the center channel allows you to move your speakers 16 to 20 feet across, which from a comfortable listening distance is much closer to the size of symphony orchestra from the 14th row or the stage in a small jazz club. Combine that with a DSP that creates a sound field that increases the size of your listening room and you have some incredibly focused and vivid sound. Scale definitely matters to realism in sound.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

bigshot said:


> 5:1 is best. Scale definitely matters to realism in sound.


I don't understand this response. The thread is about headphones. I don't like headphones. How will 5.1 affect my headphone experience unless I grow 4 more ears and someone invents headphones to suit my metamorphosis? Obviously scale definitely matters to realism in sound which is why I don't like tiny people in my head and prefer bigger people on an imaginary stage in front of me.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here other than reinforcing mine.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

peteAllen said:


> I prefer real people on a real stage in front of me


Agreed, there is no substitute for reality however realistic sounding we think our systems are.


----------



## Fratello

well , here a recommendation from me , I have one my self (for like 3 years now) and I don't really think that I need anything better than this , lines are clear and natural , give it a try , Creative makes great stuff but people don't really know about it, Lets not forget that the first sound card was made by Creative Company.

<php?

_Echo "The price != Quality"_

?>









http://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/hq-1600


----------



## bigshot

RudyKens said:


> I don't understand this response.


My point is headphones are to 2 channel speaker setups as 2 channel speaker setups are to 5:1. It's a continuum of the realism of the soundstage. Dimensionality is a big part of listening. Two channels is a straight line, whether inside your head or in front of you. Surround sound is a sound field that fills the whole room with realistic soundstage and room presence.

As for scale, 2 channel can only go so far... If you put your speakers more than 10 feet apart, your "phantom center" will drop out and you'll just get sound from the left and right. But if you put a center channel between them, you can double the distance and increase the size of the sound stage.

Sit in your main listening position and close your eyes. Hold your arms pointing at the ends of the soundstage. Open your eyes and look at how wide your arms are apart. With speakers 8 feet apart, you have to sit about eight feet back to get a realistic scale to the soundstage. That is sitting pretty close. If you add a center channel and double that spread, you can sit further away and still have a large soundstage in front of you. It approaches the scale of real human beings performing in front of you. It also makes it possible to have more than one listener in the "sweet spot". Does that explain it clearer?


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

I'm sorry but what does the above posting have to do with Best headphones for classical music?

The above seems to be in the same vein as your 19:34 post which is what I didn't understand as that didn't mention headphones either.


----------



## Guest

RudyKens said:


> I'm sorry but what does the above posting have to do with Best headphones for classical music?
> 
> The above seems to be in the same vein as your 19:34 post which is what I didn't understand as that didn't mention headphones either.


Since you said you don't really like headphones, I guess bigshot was just confirming that setting up your speakers and listening position will help you get the 'big people in front of you' that you said you want. Did you want him to recommend more headphones that would still give you tiny people in your head, just so that it was about the OP?


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

None. You need big wooden boxes. It's that simple.

Agreed with Pete and Rudy.


----------



## Albert7

I use a pair of Eskuches that are awesome for classical music while commuting. They even lasted today when i slipped on ice and fell down.

At home I use a pair of Sennheisers or Grados for the heavier tricks.


----------



## Lord Lance

ptr said:


> Yep, for classical "flat" sound best, those spiffy phones that are geared for Youth consumption and iPhones are often geard with a considerable lift in the bass and upper mid.
> 
> /ptr


Which headphones do you use?


----------



## ptr

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Which headphones do you use?


Sennheiser HD-800 at home with an SPL Phonitor 2 headphone amp and for travel Shure SE535 in-ears with fitted moulded sleeves!

/ptr


----------



## Lord Lance

ptr said:


> Sennheiser HD-800 at home with an SPL Phonitor 2 headphone amp and for travel Shure SE535 in-ears with fitted moulded sleeves!
> 
> /ptr


*gasp* Those are some truly expensive headphones. Good hearing session you enjoy. Though at that budget what was wrong with fitting the best surround system experience? Not 5.1 necessarily even 2.1 but the _highest _end. Prefer headphones over speakers because of the enhanced focus resulting in greater clarity?


----------



## Kevin Pearson

I'd love to own a pair of Sennheiser HD-800s but it would be pretty hard to justify to the wife. She balked a little when I spent $350 several years back for my Sennheiser HD-590s. I love them though because they allow me hours of listening enjoyment without ear fatigue and every other headphone I have owned did just that, and my wife has had to concede that they were a good investment. They saved her from having to listen to a lot of music she has no interest in and also allowing her to sleep in peace whilst I pursue my hobbies. 

Kevin


----------



## michaels

Sennheiser HD 598 - right now only $150 in various places.. a steal IMHO. I have cans that cost 2-3x more and sound not quite as good for most classical then these!


----------



## Kevin Pearson

One thing I really appreciate about Sennheiser is that if you have a problem they will repair them and restore them for a reasonable fee. Several years ago I accidently stepped on them and broke the headband. I was so depressed about it because I loved these headphones. I found on their website where I could fill out a form and mail them in with a check and two weeks later I had them back looking brand spanking new. I couldn't have asked for better service. HD-590s are pretty hard to find these days. I suppose I could have tried one of the newer models in the 600 series but I'm satisfied for the most part with what I have.

Kevin


----------



## Headphone Hermit

Kevin Pearson said:


> One thing I really appreciate about Sennheiser is that if you have a problem they will repair them and restore them for a reasonable fee. Several years ago I accidently stepped on them and broke the headband. I was so depressed about it because I loved these headphones. I found on their website where I could fill out a form and mail them in with a check and two weeks later I had them back looking brand spanking new. I couldn't have asked for better service. HD-590s are pretty hard to find these days. I suppose I could have tried one of the newer models in the 600 series but I'm satisfied for the most part with what I have.
> 
> Kevin


I wish I could do this with my Denons (post #3) - I believe it is posible to buy custom made replacement ear pads but they cost over $100 and I'd have to fit them myself


----------



## Albert7

All I know is that Beats headphones are bad for classical music.


----------



## Lord Lance

albertfallickwang said:


> All I know is that Beats headphones are bad for classical music.


Beats are overpriced, mainstream, fashion-statement headphones. Unless you're a spolit 21 year old who loves to flaunt her assets, you're better off with the ATH-M50x.


----------



## Kevin Pearson

In case anyone who posted here has an opinion about Sennheiser HD-650s or HD-700s I would really appeciate your input into this thread I started:

http://www.talkclassical.com/35872-sennheiser-hd-590-vs.html

I'm thinking of upgrading my headphones to possibly the HD-700s but the HD-650s are considerably less. I'm wondering if anyone has experience listening to these two for classical and jazz specifically but I also listen to other genres as well. And if you are familiar with the HD-590s I would appreciate input on whether you think either of these two would be a substantial upgrade? At least enough to justify moving up from what I already have?

Kevin


----------



## Albert7

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Beats are overpriced, mainstream, fashion-statement headphones. Unless you're a spolit 21 year old who loves to flaunt her assets, you're better off with the ATH-M50x.


True but isn't it the case that we all want to look good while listening to our Beethoven?


----------



## Kibbles Croquettes

I'm sorry. I was being mean. But I don't want to be.


----------



## Headphone Hermit

albertfallickwang said:


> True but isn't it the case that we all want to look good while listening to our Beethoven?


not an issue for hermits :lol:


----------



## Muse Wanderer

At present I am using the Beyerdynamic DT660 - it has an impressive midrange quality that is hard to describe.

It is also quite cheap. You can check this thread out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/559542/i-truly-believe-these-are-one-of-the-best-classical-music-headphones-ive-ever-heard

However I have limited experience of higher end headphones.
After a lot of research I am finally planning to purchase the Sennheiser HD800 this year.

They are really good for classical music due to their best soundstage, clarity and imaging.

The caveat - you need a really good amp and DAC.

Again checking so many headphone forums I have now opted to go for the best for the least amount of money:
Schiit Ragnarok as amplifier
Schiit Ygddrasil as DAC (due for release in March / April this year)

This combo will have a neutral presentation and will not mask anything. Live music will be full of coughs, breaths, screeches and all.

If one wants warmth then a tube amp may be better such as the DNA stratus or the more expensive Eddie current amplifiers (ECBA or EC445).

Now the real test is convincing my wife of such a mega purchase, but that is another story!


----------



## Andolink

A while back I got a chance to audition the HD-800 running from a Decware Taboo tube amplifier (highly regarded amongst HD-800 fans) and found the soundstage to be enormous. Way too huge in fact, for me. Nothing like any actual live music presentation I've ever heard. A huge soundstage in a headphone is not necessarily a good thing IMO.


----------



## scratchgolf

Kevin Pearson said:


> In case anyone who posted here has an opinion about Sennheiser HD-650s or HD-700s I would really appeciate your input into this thread I started:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/35872-sennheiser-hd-590-vs.html
> 
> I'm thinking of upgrading my headphones to possibly the HD-700s but the HD-650s are considerably less. I'm wondering if anyone has experience listening to these two for classical and jazz specifically but I also listen to other genres as well. And if you are familiar with the HD-590s I would appreciate input on whether you think either of these two would be a substantial upgrade? At least enough to justify moving up from what I already have?
> 
> Kevin


I was looking at these and a few others today online.  Some truly expensive headphones for sure. I don't think I use headphones enough to spend over $1000 on a pair. Still, I'm fascinated and curious to try them out somewhere. Are there any chain stores that carry them?


----------



## Albert7

$1000 is a lot for headphones but worth it if you have the right equipment.


----------



## Kevin Pearson

scratchgolf said:


> I was looking at these and a few others today online.  Some truly expensive headphones for sure. I don't think I use headphones enough to spend over $1000 on a pair. Still, I'm fascinated and curious to try them out somewhere. Are there any chain stores that carry them?


Neither are $1000. The HD-650 sells for around $350.00 and has excellent reviews and has been a staple among Headphiles for many years now. The HD-700 is on Amazon for $620.00. From my research this seems like a very reasonable price. Check out the reviews on YouTube. One reviewer says the HD-700s are the most comfortable pair of headphones he has ever used. The HD-590s that I currently own sold for around $350.00 when they first came out and I have used them for at least ten years. They are fantastic headphones but lack a little on the low end and I think the highs could be a touch brighter but the soundstage is fantastic. If I didn't think Sennheiser was worth the investment I would not even be thinking of upgrading. I can't imagine anyone not happy with a Sennheiser headphone set that was $300.00 or more. If I upgrade I will probably sell my HD-590s and even at ten years old I think I can get $200 for them because they are that good and Sennheiser still sells parts and will refurbish them at a reasonable price.

Kevin


----------



## scratchgolf

Kevin Pearson said:


> Neither are $1000. The HD-650 sells for around $350.00 and has excellent reviews and has been a staple among Headphiles for many years now. The HD-700 is on Amazon for $620.00. From my research this seems like a very reasonable price. Check out the reviews on YouTube. One reviewer says the HD-700s are the most comfortable pair of headphones he has ever used. The HD-590s that I currently own sold for around $350.00 when they first came out and I have used them for at least ten years. They are fantastic headphones but lack a little on the low end and I think the highs could be a touch brighter but the soundstage is fantastic. If I didn't think Sennheiser was worth the investment I would not even be thinking of upgrading. I can't imagine anyone not happy with a Sennheiser headphone set that was $300.00 or more. If I upgrade I will probably sell my HD-590s and even at ten years old I think I can get $200 for them because they are that good and Sennheiser still sells parts and will refurbish them at a reasonable price.
> 
> Kevin


Yeah, the ones I saw were HD800s for $1,499. I'm just curious to see how they sound, and if they'll make me a sandwich while I'm listening. At least pour me a drink :lol:


----------



## GioCar

AFAIK the most expensive headphones in the market are the Stax SR-009. About € 4,500.
They *must* be paired with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier of roughly the same cost.
Total cost close to € 10,000

They are considered the "Best" headphone.

I am *very* curious to see how they sound, and if you need golden ears to appreciate them.


----------



## Triplets

My Headphone listening is more of a conveinance issue for traveling, and not something that I do at home if I can listen to one of my systems, so I am just reading this thread to learn a few things. I picked up a Bluetooth Headphone made by Phillips that was discontinued after Christmas for $30, about a third of ti's regular price, and it's working pretty well and sounds very good.
I do have a question for those dedicated Headphone listeners. Do you also use a dedicated Headphone Amplifier? Audio magazines are filled with reviews of them.


----------



## michaels

GioCar said:


> AFAIK the most expensive headphones in the market are the Stax SR-009. About € 4,500.
> They *must* be paired with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier of roughly the same cost.
> Total cost close to € 10,000
> 
> They are considered the "Best" headphone.
> 
> I am *very* curious to see how they sound, and if you need golden ears to appreciate them.


The Stax were the best sounding phones to my ears and my music auditioning, but it's not just the cost of the headphones, they require a dedicated Amplifier as well. The one I auditioned was something like $5,000 on top of the headphone cost. You didn't need "golden ears", but the difference between the Stax and the Oppo PM-1 was minuscule at best. The only reason I could compare them is that the booths were 10' away from each other!

With that said, there's a great great deal on the "low end" Stax right now for $1,000 at massdrop.


----------



## michaels

scratchgolf said:


> Yeah, the ones I saw were HD800s for $1,499. I'm just curious to see how they sound, and if they'll make me a sandwich while I'm listening. At least pour me a drink :lol:


I listened to the HD800s and they were not worth the money and make you no drinks! Best "deal" was the HiFiMan HD 560 for $900, sounded definitively better then the HD800s.


----------



## michaels

Triplets said:


> I do have a question for those dedicated Headphone listeners. Do you also use a dedicated Headphone Amplifier? Audio magazines are filled with reviews of them.


I use the Schiit Asgard 2 with my HD 650s and they clearly sounds better, the 598s don't "need" the amp, but for some orchestral pieces with massive peaks and dynamic range, the amp helps (juuuuuust barely).

For earbuds, you'll never ever need or be able to tell the difference with an amp.

So when do you need (or can benefit from) an amp? When your headphones have a high ohm (resistance) rating. That means they need more power to push through the sound to your cans so they can accurately reproduce the sound.

I did try out many headphones on my iPhone directly (which should be able to handle any 32ohm cans) and there was a definitive difference with higher ohm and certain kinds of headphones.

Some people use a portable amp (google Fiio) with their phone. So you end up with a "stack" of Phone+Amp connected to these huge headphones... I think that's kind of silly, but when I travel I have no want of large headphones and use IEMs (RHA T10i rocks).

I've messed about with various bluetooth headphones and the full size are getting better and better, but just not there yet based on my auditioning for top quality sound.


----------



## Muse Wanderer

michaels said:


> I listened to the HD800s and they were not worth the money and make you no drinks! Best "deal" was the HiFiMan HD 560 for $900, sounded definitively better then the HD800s.


The problem with the hd800 is that they sound aweful when paired with poor amplifier and DAC.

Howevery they are amazing with amps and DACs that at times cost several times more than the actual headphone. Still some really expensive amps are not suited to its sound signature.

Some good advice can be found here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1815.0.html


----------



## michaels

Muse Wanderer said:


> The problem with the hd800 is that they sound aweful when paired with poor amplifier and DAC.
> 
> Howevery they are amazing with amps and DACs that at times cost several times more than the actual headphone. Still some really expensive amps are not suited to its sound signature.
> 
> Some good advice can be found here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1815.0.html


I was listening to the 800s on three different amps. I thought they were well suited to Rock & Pop, but not classical - far too colored and likely tuned for those listeners IMHO. Don't get me wrong, they were quite good, but not as good as lower priced alternatives for my music tastes (Classical primarily, with Jazz in strong second, followed by acoustic music, lastly by some pop rock like the beatles, etc.). If you're primarily doing the pop/rock bit, they're a stronger competitor, but for chamber and solo music... run away. For that, you'll be much happier with the $150 HD-598 then the HD-800.

Hope that helps. Fully realize that different people like different sounds from different headphones or there's be 2 brands and 1 model for @home/overear instead of 2,000 brands and countless models.


----------



## Muse Wanderer

michaels said:


> Hope that helps. Fully realize that different people like different sounds from different headphones or there's be 2 brands and 1 model for @home/overear instead of 2,000 brands and countless models.


Yep. With respect to audio there are so many variables and the most important is the listeners' preferences and tastes. When I auditioned the hd800 I was impressed at their clarity and soundstage. Classical music was stellar to my ears.
IMHO and YMMV is a must clause when talking headphones


----------



## echmain

How about a DIY solution:


----------



## BillT

julianoq said:


> +1 for the ATH-M50. I have one and love it, it has an amazing sound quality and a low price. I also don't agree that it is bass-heavy, the sound is very balanced in my opinion, and gets even better once you burn it. I have it for more than a year and it is still in a perfect state.


Wait! Are we talking here about headphones that you plug into your PC or portable CD player? (I apologize if this was addressed, I didn't read every post in the thread).

- Bill


----------



## Lord Lance

I second ATH series recommendation. Use M20 myself. For someone who wants to "understand" the fuss of records made before stereo [or awful EMI records - example: Gulda's Beethoven'spiano sonata cycle], they're wonderful. I always plug them in for records of conductors like young Bohm, Furtwangler, warm-blooded Walter or fast Klemperer. [Yes, all correspond to earlier years]

You need the clarity and flat delivery. AT prides itself on being audiophile's headphones.


----------



## Albert7

I have Sennheiser HD-497's that I really like using for listening to classical music featured on the tinychat room .


----------



## ahammel

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> I second ATH series recommendation.


Happy M40X owner here. The Wirecutter reckons they're better value for money than the M50X.

Might get a pair of the Sony MDR 7506s to go along with them.


----------



## Lord Lance

ahammel said:


> Happy M40X owner here. The Wirecutter reckons they're better value for money than the M50X.
> 
> Might get a pair of the Sony MDR 7506s to go along with them.


M50x have one more feature: retractable headphones. For the price, they're not high on money value. Purely cosmetic. But very useful for frequent travelers.


----------



## ahammel

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> M50x have one more feature: retractable headphones.


Eh? I don't think the 50's fold up any smaller than the 40's.

EDIT: got that the wrong way around the first time.


----------



## Albert7

Which earbuds are the best for classical music then?


----------



## Muse Wanderer

albertfallickwang said:


> Which earbuds are the best for classical music then?


I love my Etymotic in-earphones (hf2 in my case. ER4 is the main flagship). They have a very neutral presentation and their clarity is difficult to match at their price point. 
They do not enhance the bass and may not be suitable for bass heads.

Their passive noise isolating properties are the best in the market and you can listen to any piano pianissimo passages next to a passing train when the ear buds are inserted properly.


----------



## Albert7

Muse Wanderer said:


> I love my Etymotic in-earphones (hf2 in my case. ER4 is the main flagship). They have a very neutral presentation and their clarity is difficult to match at their price point.
> They do not enhance the bass and may not be suitable for bass heads.
> 
> Their passive noise isolating properties are the best in the market and you can listen to any piano pianissimo passages next to a passing train when the ear buds are inserted properly.


Thanks for your recommendations . Wanted to see something lighter weight for sure.


----------



## Kevin Pearson

I found a high end audio store in Dallas that has a pretty wide selection of audiophile headphones. So, my wife and I are taking a trip into the big city on Saturday to check out the pairs I'm interested in. I definitely know I want something with a little more bass dynamics without equalizing them. My biggest complaint about my Sennheiser HD-590s is that lack of bass. As Bigshot stated in my other thread, the HD-590s are very neutral. I have enjoyed them over the last ten years though and have gotten my money's worth out of them. 

My Schiit Magni amp arrived today and I have to say it makes an AMAZING difference in how these headphones sound. I wish I had known this years ago! However, it makes the lack of bass even more obvious. It also shows how insufficient the headphone output on my Yamaha receiver is and how "muddy" the sound is coming through that jack. I'm hearing things in my music that I didn't hear before though and so even if I change headphones I think the $100.00 for the Magni headphone amp was an investment well spent.

Kevin


----------



## Albert7

Kevin Pearson said:


> I found a high end audio store in Dallas that has a pretty wide selection of audiophile headphones. So, my wife and I are taking a trip into the big city on Saturday to check out the pairs I'm interested in. I definitely know I want something with a little more bass dynamics without equalizing them. My biggest complaint about my Sennheiser HD-590s is that lack of bass. As Bigshot stated in my other thread, the HD-590s are very neutral. I have enjoyed them over the last ten years though and have gotten my money's worth out of them.
> 
> My Schiit Magni amp arrived today and I have to say it makes an AMAZING difference in how these headphones sound. I wish I had known this years ago! However, it makes the lack of bass even more obvious. It also shows how insufficient the headphone output on my Yamaha receiver is and how "muddy" the sound is coming through that jack. I'm hearing things in my music that I didn't hear before though and so even if I change headphones I think the $100.00 for the Magni headphone amp was an investment well spent.
> 
> Kevin


Thanks for the recommendation... was thinking about the HD-590's but are those not good for classical music listening? Didn't understand whether or not you thought those were lacking.


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## bigshot

They don't make HD-590s any more. They make HD-595s, but those are quite different.


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## Kevin Pearson

albertfallickwang said:


> Thanks for the recommendation... was thinking about the HD-590's but are those not good for classical music listening? Didn't understand whether or not you thought those were lacking.


Yea...as Bigshot said the HD-590s are no longer made. It seems that there is a consensus that the HD-600s or 650s are best for classical. I called Sennheiser and spoke with one of their technicians for about 15 minutes and his recommendation for classical was the HD-650s. I thought it was interesting that he didn't try and sell me on the HD-700s since they are the pricier unit but he said that in his opinion the HD-650s would suit what I am looking for in a headphone better. So, see if you can actually test drive the HD-650s somewhere and compare them to the 600s if you can. Once I get my new headphones I'll probably be offering my HD-590s for sale. They're still in good condition but could use some new foam pads, which Sennheiser still sells. They just pop off and replace.

Kevin


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## Albert7

Kevin Pearson said:


> Yea...as Bigshot said the HD-590s are no longer made. It seems that there is a consensus that the HD-600s or 650s are best for classical. I called Sennheiser and spoke with one of their technicians for about 15 minutes and his recommendation for classical was the HD-650s. I thought it was interesting that he didn't try and sell me on the HD-700s since they are the pricier unit but he said that in his opinion the HD-650s would suit what I am looking for in a headphone better. So, see if you can actually test drive the HD-650s somewhere and compare them to the 600s if you can. Once I get my new headphones I'll probably be offering my HD-590s for sale. They're still in good condition but could use some new foam pads, which Sennheiser still sells. They just pop off and replace.
> 
> Kevin


Cool beans, if you do choose to sell, I would be interested . Upgrading my HD-497's.


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## Kevin Pearson

I finally have answer to my headphone dilemma. You can find out what I finally opted to do here  :

http://www.talkclassical.com/35872-sennheiser-hd-590-vs-2.html#post800005

Kevin


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## Radioman

I have not seen here any mention of two great phones by beyerdynamic the Ti51 and the DT880 pro 250 ohm these are truly wonderful headphones that are still made in Germany they have a fabulous sound. You can find in various websites detailed analysis of these phones.


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## gHeadphone

Kevin Pearson said:


> I finally have answer to my headphone dilemma. You can find out what I finally opted to do here  :
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/35872-sennheiser-hd-590-vs-2.html#post800005
> 
> Kevin


Hey Kevin

Have you ever tried the HD800s? They usually get great reviews as classical cans. (sorry, i see from the other thread that you went with the 800s, great choice!)


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## haydnfan

Radioman said:


> I have not seen here any mention of two great phones by beyerdynamic the Ti51 and the DT880 pro 250 ohm these are truly wonderful headphones that are still made in Germany they have a fabulous sound. You can find in various websites detailed analysis of these phones.


Yes the dt880s are one of the three best headphones I've heard for classical, with the other two being the Sennheiser hd600 and the Akg K/Q701. I slightly prefer the darker sound of the latter two though, but all three are excellent.


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## KRoad

I've got (among others) Beyer DT880's / AKG Q701s and the Senn 650's - all classic great classical phones - my choice? Depends on the qualities of the recording in question. 

If a bass heavy recording (yes, they do exist in the classical realm) I go for the bass-light Q701s as compensation to eliminate "boominess". Also a very wide sound-stage with Q701s. Very detailed.

If I'm looking for a warmer sound to compensate a "toppy" sound, then I'll go for the Senns 650's - even though they are over-priced (IMHO). 

Best all-rounder though = Beyer DT880's, dry, yes, but very detailed, accurate to source and balanced to the point you could master on them (in a pinch).


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## fatherlogan

I think, as in many audio equipments, there are objective and subjective appreciations. From what i've read and experienced, most headphones can shine with a type of music and not so much with another type. I just bought a new pair of hedphone after quite extensive listening (from Bach big organ pieces, Cecilia Bartoli Vivaldi's, José Van Dam le veau d'or to Jim Tomlinson-Stacey Kent Jazz to Jack White distorted guitar and Deadmau5 uber distorted electronica; and many many more classical,jazz, rock and electronic music pieces). My conclusion is certainly not totally objective but to my ears and needs. My first need was a pair of headphone versatile enough to my wide range taste in music but that would have outstanding performance for classical and Jazz (without compromising too much on the other types of music) but afterall this is a classical music forum. Then comfort (so indirectly weight) to be able to listen for hours. Finally before disclosing the results, i have to tell you some details that might help you to decode my observations. I have an all Linn system, so obviously do not like boomy bass. Cellos and basses have to be lively tight and rich. In rock i like them tight and airy (I know exactly how Bohnam's drum in "when the levee breaks" is suppose to sound given their recording at the Headley grange). Anyway could go on but lets see:


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## fatherlogan

AKG 701Q Qincy Jones: I was first impressed with the sound stage even if i felt a little bit like i would be sitting at the back of a concert hall or of the show (for rock). But frankly for the price (think you can find them for around 300-350$can), i thought they were more than decent with good precision on the highs. Certainly much better than hypes Dr D whatever/beats/bose at the same price (unless you drive them with an iphone or similar, then they all sound crappy, buy whatever). Finally i found the Q701 shine better with Jazz than classical. Ok enjoyable with rock and electronica. Comfotable, long wire.
Sennheiser HD600: For classical, they unequivocally were better than akg701Q. I instantlly felt i was sitting in a better seat. The lower Hz (Bach Ogan) were more palpable. Overall i found they were more versatile then AKG701. The bad news is that they are a bit more expensive (Retail 600$can but you can find hem at 440-500$can). Very comfortable.
Grado ps500e: I felt i was entering into another league (but at another price too! 800$can). I though they were especially good for Rock and Electronica. definitively a lot of bass much richer than the two previous headphones. Slightly boomy for me but that is totally subjective. Given a pair i would choose the ps500e before the senn600 and akg because they gave me more pleasure. they felt comfy but i listen to them for 30 min (hours for senn and akg).
Stax 2170 system: Those come with the preamp/amp (that look cheap to me) and sells for 895$can. My first Stax experience and I instanly knew i became a stax person. Everything was lighyears more detailed. Music was flowing trough my ears. After reading on stax i was expecting the bass would be thin. It was far less than i tough it would be. In fact they best reproduced Deadmau5 electronica distortion than the previous ones. Classical a big yes for those. Beethoven and Schubert sonatas were so lively, closing my eyes i was at the concert with very good seats. my tough then: oh man i have to listen to Keith Jarrett on those! On the negative side I thought they were lacking of oumph for rock and electronica (and in Die Entführung aus dem Serail from Mozart). As Stax have no magnet, i noticed they were light and comfy. the cable is a bit short (for some), 2.5m. extra 2.5m cost around 130$. I would buy those before the grado ps500e but if you want more power (listening to louder music) then i suggest the grado ps500e.
3 more headphones to follow:


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## fatherlogan

Grado GS1000e (1299$cn): i am going to be short here. They look nice they feel very light and nice. They were much more detailed than the grado ps500e but I would only listen to classical music with those. Ps500e much more versatile. Big no no for rock (highs are too artifical with rock) and even worse for electronica. So you will love those if you listen classical only.
Sennheiser HD800(1900$): They have no fault but i felt nothing (no emotions). Technically (quite objectively) the best so far. Be aware that you really need a good headphone amp for them to shine (that is around the same price as the headphones!). If money is no object and you want to buy a pair of headphone without trying them, you cannot go wrong.
Stax 4170 system (2200$): houhouhouhou! It gave me goosebumps right from the start with the magnificent José Van Dam "Le veau d'or" as if he was in my own living room singing only for me. And then the orchestra was so detailed and powerfull. Try Cecilia Bartoli Vivaldi Album with those and you will understand what i mean. Everything was where it is suppose to be. Stacey Kent voice was just melting, Louis and Duke were partying with me and Jack White big distorted guitar in Ball and Biscuit as I never heard it before! Too bad the price was a bit too stiff for me....I wanted to try the 3170 system a bit cheaper (1500$) as the amp look less cheaper too and i was expecting more power than with the amp in the 2170 system but they did not have it. As i mentionned the big difference between the 3 Stax here is the amp. Moreover the amp in the 4170 system is a vacuum tubes amp while amps in two previous are solid states and have only 1 unbalanced input while in 4170 the amp has 1 balanced and 2 unbalanced input. Anyway 4170 was so good even with a much cheaper dac than what i have home. So i cannot imagine what would come out from my Linn Ikemi using balanced xlr directly into stax or my Linn DS.

In conclusion i found every of these headphones a good buy given your needs and would buy them (except perhaps the grado gs1000e that is not versatile enough for me). All listening were perform using the same dac and my old Linn preamp Kolektor (i brough it in store with me) that has a separated dedicated headphone circuit except for the stax systems that have their own amps. That being said, I also did compare between direct stax feed and feeding the stax trough rec out of my linn preamp without much noticeable difference. One other thing, the guy plugged the stax tubes amp with a power cord that could have come from a dam producing electricity. I unplugged it and use a regular power cord with perhaps a small lost in sonic performance (nothing like the diff between 2170 and 4170). I have never been a big power cord believer because why put a 400$ cable after the probable cheap wiring of your house. Would be like putting ferrari tires on a ford. The vendor confimed that they have special better wiring in their walls from the electrical box. That explain partly why sometimes stuff you buy sound better in the store. Unless you rewire the outlet from your house electrical box, you are wasting money with those expensive power cords. Anyway, came back home, tell all the story to my wife and to my surprise she said "you should buy the stax 4170 because you are listening to music every night". So i paid myself a treat today and bought the stax system 4170. Oh did i mention i'm keeping my wife!


----------



## haydnfan

fatherlogan said:


> Finally i found the Q701 shine better with Jazz than classical. Ok enjoyable with rock and electronica. Comfotable, long wire.
> Sennheiser HD600: For classical, they unequivocally were better than akg701Q. I instantlly felt i was sitting in a better seat. The lower Hz (Bach Ogan) were more palpable. Overall i found they were more versatile then AKG701.


I own both and disagree with your impressions. The more laid back sound signature of the 600 makes them a better fit for jazz than the akg's, especially with classic recordings. For classical they both are inferior to the accurate bass reproduction of the dt880s and the hd650s, but both are pretty good.


----------



## Musicophile

fatherlogan said:


> Sennheiser HD800(1900$): They have no fault but i felt nothing (no emotions). Technically (quite objectively) the best so far.


I get what you mean by "no emotions", but this is due to their extreme neutrality. Most other headphones add some form of sound, the HD800 is really the most neutral and resolving headphone I've heard. I call it a "window into the music", it is just transparent. I understand why this can be perceived as "no emotions". But you really get used to it over time, and I wouldn't want to do headphone listening any other way (it would be quite a different story if I were into rock I suppose).

I compared my HD800s to Grado RS1000, Oppo PM1, and Audeze LCD-2 and 3, and the only headphone that was still "better" than the HD800 was the LCD3, at close to twice the price of my HD800 (I think Sennheiser has raised prices since then).



fatherlogan said:


> Be aware that you really need a good headphone amp for them to shine (that is around the same price as the headphones!). If money is no object and you want to buy a pair of headphone without trying them, you cannot go wrong.


Agree, I drive them with the Sennheiser HDVA600, which is a great combo. Prothe only thing better out there are high-end tube amps.

In a nutshell, if you like classical, you at least have to try the HD800. Plus, they are the most comfortable cans I've ever owned.


----------



## fatherlogan

haydnfan said:


> I own both and disagree with your impressions. The more laid back sound signature of the 600 makes them a better fit for jazz than the akg's, especially with classic recordings. For classical they both are inferior to the accurate bass reproduction of the dt880s and the hd650s, but both are pretty good.


Unless I am mistaken (as English is not my first language), If you re-read what I wrote, it is saying that "Q701 shine better with jazz than classical". My comment was that with Q701 I had more pleasure with jazz than with classical. I do not know where you saw that my impression was that Q701 was better fit for jazz than hd600. In fact I thought that HD600 was superior to Q701 for every style of music and especially for classical. Maybe you find the gap between the two headphones larger for jazz and me larger for classical (this might be explained by the specific pieces we listened; moreover I listened to them for maybe 20 hours, you owned them so you have done more extensive listening with a wider variety of recordings). Correct me if I am wrong but we seem to agree on the direction of the gap? Not just the size of the gap. Have seen bigger disagreement then that!  Haven't try dt880s and HD650 so I cannot comment.


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## fatherlogan

Musicophile said:


> I compared my HD800s to Grado RS1000, Oppo PM1, and Audeze LCD-2 and 3, and the only headphone that was still "better" than the HD800 was the LCD3, at close to twice the price of my HD800 (I think Sennheiser has raised prices since then).


Apart from the HD800s, I haven't listen to those. I think the reason why I wrote "no emotions" is because the stax system 4170 gave me so much emotions, no other gave me goosebumps like this. And to be fair, I did not drive the HD800 with the $2000 HDVA600. I probably would have had goosebumbs too with this combo. But note that HD800s + HDVA600=$3900! Almost double the price of the stax 4170 system! My appreciation was that if you cannot pay for the HDVA600 and the choice is between HD800s alone at $1900 vs stax system for 300$ more then you are better off with the stax.

To be fair one should compare within the same price range: the stax combo 5170 at $3495 (or even for 200$ more the vaccum tubes amp instead of the solid state one) with the $3900 sennheiser combo. I would be curious to know if you have ever tried any stax system?
In any case sir you seem to have a very top of the line headphone system and I am sure you are enjoying it like there is no tomorrow!


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## haydnfan

fatherlogan said:


> Unless I am mistaken (as English is not my first language), If you re-read what I wrote, it is saying that "Q701 shine better with jazz than classical". My comment was that with Q701 I had more pleasure with jazz than with classical. I do not know where you saw that my impression was that Q701 was better fit for jazz than hd600. In fact I thought that HD600 was superior to Q701 for every style of music and especially for classical. Maybe you find the gap between the two headphones larger for jazz and me larger for classical (this might be explained by the specific pieces we listened; moreover I listened to them for maybe 20 hours, you owned them so you have done more extensive listening with a wider variety of recordings). Correct me if I am wrong but we seem to agree on the direction of the gap? Not just the size of the gap. Have seen bigger disagreement then that!  Haven't try dt880s and HD650 so I cannot comment.


I apologize for misreading your post, I think we're in agreement.


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## Andolink

For $529.99 US, I don't think you can go wrong with the HP I use for classical--the HiFiMan HE-500.







(not stock cable)


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## Muse Wanderer

For my ears and preferences, the Sennheiser HD800 is perfect for classical music. It ticks all the boxes in terms of imaging, soundstage, tonality, neutrality, accuracy and transparency. 

By transparency I mean they will reflect what is fed into them. The HD800 does not colour the sound as many other headphones do and it may not suit the tastes of those expecting a rich, warm laid back sound. It is suited for those seeking maximum resolution, neutrality and accuracy. 

The HD800 needs a top of the line amp and DAC to sound great. When the source is excellent, it exceeds all expectations. If you feed it garbage it outputs garbage.

When I used an old Musical Fidelity V-DAC to feed the Schiit Vali amp it worked nicely. However once I connected it to the excellent Schiit Ragnarok amplifier it scaled tremendously. The treble was still harsh and digital sounding as a result of the DAC.

Once I got the fantastic Schiit Yggdrasil DAC the digital harshness faded away and the music was life-like and analog sounding. The Yggdrasil has an R2R DAC chip implimented with a digital filter that preserves the original samples. In terms of accuracy in reproducing the digital music file, it compares to DACs that cost>5x its asking price. (This is all in my opinion, YMMV etc, etc.)

I am listening to Handel's Rinaldo with a huge smile on my face, it is astounding.


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## Ilarion

Sennheiser has always appealed to me, still do, but when I bought an Ultrasone, my Sennheiser spends more time hanging on the rack.


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## gHeadphone

Ilarion said:


> Sennheiser has always appealed to me, still do, but when I bought an Ultrasone, my Sennheiser spends more time hanging on the rack.


Which Ultrasone do you have? Im a Signature Pro man, i have to say i love them.


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## gardibolt

I am really liking my AKG K550s more and more for classical. After listening to them for a while, my ATH-M40X in contrast seems to be pushing way too much bass and it feels artificially boosted. So I'm liking the transparence and really am not hearing the emphasis on the treble that the early reviews of these AKG headphones complained about. The K550s are very low impedance so they really don't need an amp (unlike my Sony 7506, which just can't manage decent output without one). Only for big heads, though (like mine)---small heads may not get the seal needed for good sound.


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## Gustav Mahler

After a year of experimentation, I found the absolute best: The Grado PS1000e.
It sounds the most natural, And much less harsh than the HD800.


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## haydnfan

gardibolt said:


> I am really liking my AKG K550s more and more for classical. After listening to them for a while, my ATH-M40X in contrast seems to be pushing way too much bass and it feels artificially boosted. So I'm liking the transparence and really am not hearing the emphasis on the treble that the early reviews of these AKG headphones complained about. The K550s are very low impedance so they really don't need an amp (unlike my Sony 7506, which just can't manage decent output without one). Only for big heads, though (like mine)---small heads may not get the seal needed for good sound.


I have the K545 which has smaller cups and is thus more portable. Glad to see another fan of akg headphones!


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## nickyspaghetti

For home listening Iam very satisfied with my sennheiser hd598. They are the best I could afford on a budget and for classical I think I made the perfect choice. For portable listening however I have struggled to find the ideal headphone. For three years I was using koss portapros and whilst not ideally suited to classical, they worked ok. Now the flimsy cable broke and whilst I gather parts to repair them I bought sennheiser px100 ii. They are so much more comfortable however im not convinced with the sound for the music I listen to. Seems a bit cloudy and boomy for my liking.Anybody got an ideal suggestion for portable open backed phones at a similar low budget?


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## gHeadphone

What is the budget? Maybe the Hifiman HE 400s which are about 299 USD (is this in budget?)


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## morg23

It’s really tough to recommend a headphone for listening classical music since most of the phones available in the market today has got the options to customize music experience to our own needs, so the type of headphone is not the primary issue, but I would recommend a noise cancelling in-ear type headphones that will allow you to listen to music without the outside noise. I’m using Bose QuietComfort 20 noise cancelling headphones bought from Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto and Listening to music is an awesome experience in this pair.


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## Kevin Pearson

Gustav Mahler said:


> After a year of experimentation, I found the absolute best: The Grado PS1000e.
> It sounds the most natural, And much less harsh than the HD800.


The HD800s need breaking in and if they seem harsh as a new set that might be true but they do get warmer in sound the more they are played. To my ears the Grado sounded more harsh in comparison test at the audio store but there again everyone's ears are different and we all have different tastes as to what we are listening for. I also found the HD800 more comfortable. In either case I would say anyone who bought either got themselves some fine headphones.

Kevin


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## SilverSurfer

Finally enjoying (a lot!) the Beyer DT660, thanks to GioCar :kiss:; amazing experience for me, using before the cheap but great Superlux 668, open ones so my son used to complain for my "infernal music" like "Rotmitelli", as he says :lol:
Now I could say I "see" the players in my head...


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## CDs

I'm loving my Bower & Wilkins P7. The have a removable cable and ear pads. Plus you can get a cable that is 16 feet (5 meters) long.
Price is reasonable as well $400.


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## billeames

I use the Audeze LCD3, it has a sense of air that makes the music more natural. Yes it is big and expensive, I listen when my stereo is unavailable. Its not as good as the Wilson sasha speakers with a good amp though. I listen directly from my computer or ipod. I still have my Grado HP1, I need to sell it. Thanks Bill


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## michaels

I'm loving my new HiFiMan HE-560 with my Schiit Lyr paired with Bugle Boy tubes!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I love my Sennheiser HD650s. Big improvement from HD595s, which are the two pairs I own.


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## gardibolt

I tried out the $400 Oppo PM-3 headphones for a week and quite liked them. Not sure I'm ready to spring for a $400 set of headphones, but if you're interested my review of them using a variety of classical music is here:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/oppo-pm-3/reviews/16102


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## zhopin

I'm thinking about getting the Sennheiser 598 over-ear headphones - they're about $150 and come with a detachable cord. They should be great, but could anyone suggest decent alternatives around the same price range? I want to dig a little deeper before I make my mind.


----------



## rspader

zhopin said:


> I'm thinking about getting the Sennheiser 598 over-ear headphones - they're about $150 and come with a detachable cord. They should be great, but could anyone suggest decent alternatives around the same price range? I want to dig a little deeper before I make my mind.


I have the 598s. Dollar for dollar they have been the best improvement to my listening experience. I think that they are excellent for classical and jazz and very good for rock (but lack some bass "punch"). They sound better with age so some break-in time can't hurt. A word of caution, however. Note that these are open back headphones. The open back design produces a very realistic sound stage and a "live" effect to the music. But, because of the open back design, they do not do a good job of filtering outside noise and, if played a a reasonable volume, your music will be heard by others in the room. Think of them as "alternative speakers" and you will be pleased. $150.00 is a great price for headphones of this quality.


----------



## zhopin

rspader said:


> I have the 598s. Dollar for dollar they have been the best improvement to my listening experience. I think that they are excellent for classical and jazz and very good for rock (but lack some bass "punch"). They sound better with age so some break-in time can't hurt. A word of caution, however. Note that these are open back headphones. The open back design produces a very realistic sound stage and a "live" effect to the music. But, because of the open back design, they do not do a good job of filtering outside noise and, if played a a reasonable volume, your music will be heard by others in the room. Think of them as "alternative speakers" and you will be pleased. $150.00 is a great price for headphones of this quality.


I was planning on keeping them for at-home use only due to them being open-back, I just wanted the natural quality. I usually prefer using IE headphones in public, anyway. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## michaels

gardibolt said:


> I tried out the $400 Oppo PM-3 headphones for a week and quite liked them. Not sure I'm ready to spring for a $400 set of headphones, but if you're interested my review of them using a variety of classical music is here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/oppo-pm-3/reviews/16102


The way to get the PM-3 is refurbished: same warranty as new and substantial savings. (I own a pair I use for travel and environments where I want to close out external sounds and get good sound.

That said, my current favorite is the HiFiMan HE-560 -- perfect blend of great sound at excellent price-performance-value point.


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## michaels

gardibolt said:


> I tried out the $400 Oppo PM-3 headphones for a week and quite liked them. Not sure I'm ready to spring for a $400 set of headphones, but if you're interested my review of them using a variety of classical music is here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/oppo-pm-3/reviews/16102


Great review! Love how you didn't just review, but did the head to head comparison. If you are open to open back, I think you might really like the HiFiMan 400i headphones for similar price.


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## Euterpe

I own both Sennheiser HD800 and Beyer T1. They're amazing!


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## gardibolt

michaels said:


> The way to get the PM-3 is refurbished: same warranty as new and substantial savings. (I own a pair I use for travel and environments where I want to close out external sounds and get good sound.
> 
> That said, my current favorite is the HiFiMan HE-560 -- perfect blend of great sound at excellent price-performance-value point.


Thanks for the tip on the refurbished; that's a pretty attractive price. I don't have enough quiet environments to make open back a very useful option, unfortunately. Thanks also for the kind words about the review.


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## billeames

I tried a few and like the Audeze LCD 3 the best. I have it and it comes with a hard case if you specify it. It cost a bit at 2k. Good for traveling assuming you have space for it. I have not tried an amp yet. It is acceptable on the ipod touch. I dont think I tried the Sennheiser HD800. I find headphones less than 70 pct as good as my speakers Wilson Sasha 2's, though not in all cases. I suppose a headphone amp would help. The Ayre did not, disappointed in it. (codex).


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## smoledman

Beats by Dre. Got to have that rumbling bass.


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## Centropolis

rspader said:


> I have the 598s. Dollar for dollar they have been the best improvement to my listening experience. I think that they are excellent for classical and jazz and very good for rock (but lack some bass "punch"). They sound better with age so some break-in time can't hurt. A word of caution, however. Note that these are open back headphones. The open back design produces a very realistic sound stage and a "live" effect to the music. But, because of the open back design, they do not do a good job of filtering outside noise and, if played a a reasonable volume, your music will be heard by others in the room. Think of them as "alternative speakers" and you will be pleased. $150.00 is a great price for headphones of this quality.


I agree that the 598s are probably the best headphones at this price point for classical music. I have these and also the HD600s and for the price difference, I wouldn't buy the HD600s unless you find a really good deal. Not worth enough for the extra money you pay.

I also enjoy the Beyerdynamic DT880 for classical music. Also won't break the bank.

P.S. I may have said this in a previous post but....YOU ALL HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY TO SPEND. Audeze...HE560s....


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## michaels

Centropolis said:


> P.S. I may have said this in a previous post but....YOU ALL HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY TO SPEND. Audeze...HE560s....


Ha! You may be right, but I also plan and wait, often buy used, refurbished, etc. and typically pay less the ½ the typical price. Patience is a virtue!


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## zhopin

Just received the Sennheiser 598s as a gift and I am so pleased! They do somewhat fall off my head, but it's nothing I can't handle!

I purchased the Etymotic MC5 earbuds last week and aside from them being a little uncomfortable (they have to go pretty far in the ear or the sound will be tinny) they are decent quality. They come with additional earbud tips, which is nice.


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## Suganthan

+1 for flat sounding headphones. I have ath m50, its flatter than any consumer headphones. They upgraded the series to ath m40x and m50x. m50x is just the bass heavy version of m40x which is more flatter than the former.


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## gardibolt

Aaargh delayed too long and Oppo has apparently stopped selling headphone refurbs; their redesigned website doesn't seem to have any available or even any pages devoted to them. You snooze, you lose.


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## Centropolis

Suganthan said:


> +1 for flat sounding headphones. I have ath m50, its flatter than any consumer headphones. They upgraded the series to ath m40x and m50x. m50x is just the bass heavy version of m40x which is more flatter than the former.


From my experience, the M50 are not that flat, they have a slight bass boost. In the same price range is the HD598 and also slightly cheaper Sony MDR-7506 which are "more flat" than the M50 or M50x.

That's just my view, no offense.


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## DaveM

The Ath m50x is just right for me. If there is a bit of a bass boost, that's fine with me since it enhances the lower register of the grand piano. It certainly isn't anything as extreme as the Beats and other headphones made for pop/rock/rap etc.

I sometimes use the Bose on-ear headphones for classical, but I'm always amazed how superior the ATH M50Xs are when I go back to them particularly with separation and the wide soundstage.


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## satoru

Etymotic released a new version of their flagship ER-4 series canal phones: ER-4SR and ER-4XR

http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/er4-new.html

SR stands for "Studio Reference" which is a refined version of ER-4S while XR is "Extended Response" which is a successor to ER-4P. Both now have 45 Ohms impedance, so it should be easier to drive from portable players. I'm curious how ER-4SR sounds for classical music. The price is $349 directly from the manufacturer.

I see a few fellow Etymotic lovers here but I think it's worth more attention. If you can tolerate the feeling of having something inserted deep into you ear canal, the noise isolation is fantastic while the sound is crisp and clear, revealing a lot of details in the recordings. The three flange silicone tip feels hard at the beginning, but if you keep using it, the it gets softer and starts to fit better. I heard that putting some oil (like baby oil) helps to soften the silicone but I never tried it by myself. The filters need to be replaced periodically. Otherwise, the sound gets muffled.

As we are surrounded by huge amount of noise, even at home, the noise isolation Etymotic phones provide is a good thing to have, in my personal opinion. The drawback is the feeling of having something deep into your ears (which I got used to), and also the time to put it in. I also own Sennheiser HD-598 and Stax SR-002 (and I like both of them, too), but for details and clarity of sound, Etymotic is few steps ahead, I think.


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## Guest

I have an older pair of Etymotic phones--never could get a tight enough seal for decent bass response. Mine came with both foam and those tips that are pictured.


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## Guest

gardibolt said:


> Aaargh delayed too long and Oppo has apparently stopped selling headphone refurbs; their redesigned website doesn't seem to have any available or even any pages devoted to them. You snooze, you lose.


Have you tried Ebay or Audiogon for used ones?


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## satoru

Kontrapunctus said:


> I have an older pair of Etymotic phones--never could get a tight enough seal for decent bass response. Mine came with both foam and those tips that are pictured.


Did you pull up your ear with the other hand and open your mouth? I also found that wetting the silicone tips with water helps getting tight seal. I usually don't hear some one calling me while I have Etymotic in ears unless they come really near. I put the code over my ears (from phone on front to the back of the ears) thus I'm inserting them upside down. For me, that angle works the best. As I mentioned, getting tight seal with new silicone tip is rather difficult. Maybe a drop of baby oil could be a help in your case.


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## Guest

I might have--just don't remember. In fact, I'm not even sure where they are now!


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## michaels

gardibolt said:


> Aaargh delayed too long and Oppo has apparently stopped selling headphone refurbs; their redesigned website doesn't seem to have any available or even any pages devoted to them. You snooze, you lose.


They have the blue refurb available! 
http://www.oppodigital.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ZPM3B

If you prefer the black, I would gladly trade with you


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