# Adored Great Composers But Not Remembered For Their Passion



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

The purpose of this thread is perhaps best point out by considering Antonín Dvořák (AD). When most of us consider AD, the music that draws our listening senses out are probably his instrumental pieces such as his chamber music and of course, his famous symphonies. Would you be a little surprised then to discover as I did, when I came across this:

_"Over the last five years I have written nothing but operas. I wanted to devote all my powers, as long as the dear Lord gives me health, to the creation of opera. Not, however, out of any vain desire for theatrical glory, but because I consider opera to be the most suitable medium for the nation. This music is listened to by the widest audience, and often - whereas if I composed a symphony I might have to wait years before it is performed._ [...] _I am regarded as a symphonist, yet I proved many years ago that my main leaning is towards dramatic creation"_. (letter, 1904)

Antonín Dvořák the opera composer at heart? Surely not!

Can you provide examples of other composers "doomed" to be remembered for not their passions at heart?


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

What a fascinating bit about Dvořák. The only example I could point out is that Brahms _adored_ the string quartet and spent a great deal of time composing his own quartets (actually, them took him FOREVER), but no one likes them... :lol:


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

I love Brahms quartets.

But then, I love Dvorak's operas, too, and have recordings of all of them.

I can't think of anyone else off hand who genuinely thought of himself as a **** composer though widely known as a %%%%% composer. Lots of people who's operas are not well known. Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Berlioz, thought that is changing, a bit. The world of audio recording. But Dvorak genuinely thought of himself as an opera composer.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

some guy said:


> I love Brahms quartets.
> 
> But then, I love Dvorak's operas, too, and have recordings of all of them.
> 
> I can't think of anyone else off hand who genuinely thought of himself as a **** composer though widely known as a %%%%% composer. Lots of people who's operas are not well known. Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Berlioz, thought that is changing, a bit. The world of audio recording. But Dvorak genuinely thought of himself as an opera composer.


He wrote about fifteen operas. You have all fifteen on recording? Most of mine were from the Orfeo label (under Albrecht).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Had one or two of Schubert operas been a smash I wonder if it would have been largely goodbye to songs, symphonies, chamber and piano works once the theatre commissions started to pour in?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> Had one or two of Schubert operas been a smash I wonder if it would have been largely goodbye to songs, symphonies, chamber and piano works once the theatre commissions started to pour in?


There certainly wasn't much danger of this happening,they are an unfortunate experience.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

We must presume that opera was Massenet's passion but he certainly is not remembered for the ones he wrote.
He composed thirty four,but only three are known to most people.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> He wrote about fifteen operas. You have all fifteen on recording? Most of mine were from the Orfeo label (under Albrecht).


Ten. I have the nine that have been recorded.

Most of mine are on Supraphon. Wanda and Armida I have with Albrecht on Orfeo as well as the oratoria, Svata Ludmila.

As far as I know, _Alfred_ has not been recorded. If it had been, I would have it.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> What a fascinating bit about Dvořák. The only example I could point out is that Brahms _adored_ the string quartet and spent a great deal of time composing his own quartets (actually, them took him FOREVER), but no one likes them... :lol:


Like some guy I love the Brahms quartets. What's not to like? Exquisitly beautiful and full of passion and of course flawlessly constructed.
I think I read that Haydn considered his operas to be his greatest achievements but posterity seems not to have agreed. I haven't heard them so no comment.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Perhaps Scott Joplin is a good example. All we know are his rags, and yet those who have read about him know of his opera Treemonisha and that he generally wanted to be taken more seriously.

Holy cow, I decided to search 'Treemonisha' and came across this:






This is the thing completely composed by Joplin but orchestrated by another.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Perhaps Scott Joplin is a good example. All we know are his rags, and yet those who have read about him know of his opera Treemonisha and that he generally wanted to be taken more seriously.
> 
> Holy cow, I decided to search 'Treemonisha' and came across this:
> 
> ...


The changing of the score page is waaay behind the actual music.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> The changing of the score page is waaay behind the actual music.


It often is on youtube videos. Personally, I'm not usually interested in following scores anyway.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> It often is on youtube videos. Personally, I'm not usually interested in following scores anyway.


Really? That surprises me.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

*Sir Arthur Sullivan*, composer (with W.S. Gilbert) of English operettas, was always longing to be given due and remembered for his more serious types of music. His cello concerto is pretty good, and he also did some sacred choral works. The _Irish Symphony _is delightful, and the late Charles Mackerras worked to perform these works whenever he could, I vaguely remember hearing him live conduct his arrangement of music by Sullivan into the ballet _Pineapple Poll_.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> Really? That surprises me.


I'm not the quickest reader to begin with, so I don't get as much out of it as some musicians might.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I forgot about Sullivan's _Ivanhoe_, a fully fledged opera, but I haven't heard it.

Seems that composers of light music can commonly be like this. *Franz Lehar*, composer of _The Merry Widow_, did a number of serious works, including a violin concerto. Also, his _Giuditta_, is labelled as an opera rather than an operetta. It was a late piece for him and produced at the Vienna State Opera in the 1930's.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Schumann wanted his opera to be his greatest success. But no.


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