# Curse of the 9th



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I saw this online once about a composer dies after writing 9 symphonies.It seems real to me though because some of the best composers died after writing 9 symphonies.Schubert ,Beethoven ,Dvorak ALL DIED .So what do you think?


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Tell that to Shostakovich. or Havergal Bryan. Or Mozart. Or Haydn . . . All of them died after writing nine symphonies. Some of them long after.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Of course it was real! The only reason Mozart and Haydn went past 9 is because the myth hadn't been invented in their lifetimes. As for Shostakovich, he was living in an isolated terror-stricken country ruled by a monstrous dictator known as Stalin, since they were isolated, nothing was able to get inside the country. Not even the "Curse of the 9th". It tried to get in but it was stopped at Customs. 

Real answer, no, I don't believe in superstition or curses.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Of course it was real! The only reason Mozart and Haydn went past 9 is because the myth hadn't been invented in their lifetimes. As for Shostakovich, he was living in an isolated terror-stricken country ruled by a monstrous dictator known as Stalin, since they were isolated, nothing was able to get inside the country. Not even the "Curse of the 9th". It tried to get in but it was stopped at Customs.


The Curse was promptly banished to the Gulag, where it still languishes. Something for which Hovhaness was very grateful.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

mtmailey said:


> I saw this online once about a composer dies after writing 9 symphonies.It seems real to me though because some of the best composers died after writing 9 symphonies.Schubert ,Beethoven ,Dvorak ALL DIED .So what do you think?


Interesting, other than Beethoven, who was on the cusp of the Romantic era, the rest are Romantic era composers -- _Since *it is a romantic era myth* which came about because Beethoven only wrote nine_. LOL.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

No, there isn't a real curse. I can't imagine how that would work.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GreenMamba said:


> No, there isn't a real curse. I can't imagine how that would work.


But of course, you compose nine symphonies, after which your hubris allowance is spent, and therefore you then must die -- _bwaaaah ha ha ha!_


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

mtmailey said:


> I saw this online once about a composer dies after writing 9 symphonies.It seems real to me though because some of the best composers died after writing 9 symphonies.Schubert ,Beethoven ,Dvorak ALL DIED .So what do you think?


I think if you're going to resurrect the myth, you should at least do it full out and mention Bruckner and Mahler as well. The latter especially, since he wrote the unnumbered Das Lied von der Erde in order to throw off the count, hoping to escape the curse.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

I suspect "Curse Of The Zero" has been the ruin of a far, far greater number of composers.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

amfortas said:


> I think if you're going to resurrect the myth, you should at least do it full out and mention Bruckner and Mahler as well. The latter especially, since he wrote the unnumbered Das Lied von der Erde in order to throw off the count, hoping to escape the curse.


Bruckner, of course, completed 10 symphonies, leaving another incomplete at his death.

The story about Mahler originates with Alma, and is for that reason at least a little bit suspect. That said, he did write "IX. Symphonie" on the cover of Das Lied von der Erde, before crossing that out and giving the work its present title and subtitle ("A Symphony for Orchestra, Tenor, and Alto or Baritone Voices"). A reason for this given by the composer himself has not survived.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Here is a Wikipedia article about this
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Ninth_Symphony


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

As with most curses, I suppose, it only affected those who believed in it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

SimonNZ said:


> I suspect "Curse Of The Zero" has been the ruin of a far, far greater number of composers.


... along with that other infamous curse, "The Curse Of The Unfinished."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Andreas said:


> As with most curses, I suppose, it only affected those who believed in it.


Ah, it works like voodoo, or many another religion or cult! Then again, write many huge formal symphonic works, just not 'Symphonies.'


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> Bruckner, of course, completed 10 symphonies, leaving another incomplete at his death.


As did Mahler, if you go by his own designation of Das Lied as a symphony. But in the commonly accepted numbering, neither of them made it past nine.

Apparently, the curse isn't big on scholarly diligence.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Maybe the curse does exist, but you just have to try and fend it off ...

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/jan/31/peter-maxwell-davies-10th-symphony-lso-pappano-borromini


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Thank goodness for modern psychology. Then again, when we look back, Beethoven, Dvorak, Schubert, all had time to write at least one more symphony. They did not die after doing the Ninth (considering that they have written works before their demises). And of course, composers unproven this curse many times over (Myaskovsky, Shostakovich, Lloyd, Brian, Diamond, Langgaard). 

Mahler, Mahler, Mahler.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't think Schubert can be involved in the '9' game in any shape or form - he never even completed more than seven, did he?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For the ninth time: This is just a coincidence! William Schuman wrote 10 symphonies. According to reports, he was still alive while writing the 10th.
Didn't seem to bother Mozart and Haydn either.

My best advice to you is write 9 symphonies and see if you live to compose a tenth.

Report back with results.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

hpowders said:


> My best advice to you is write 9 symphonies and see if you live to compose a tenth.
> 
> Report back with results.


Um . . . you first!


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

hpowders said:


> For the ninth time: This is just a coincidence! William Schuman wrote 10 symphonies. According to reports, he was still alive while writing the 10th.
> Didn't seem to bother Mozart and Haydn either.
> 
> My best advice to you is write 9 symphonies and see if you live to compose a tenth.
> ...


We'll of course it is a coincidence! I find it curious that the story continues to swirl around. But I think the story might swirl around more for those less familiar with classical music. We in the know can name composers who wrote more than nine symphonies. I like telling the story of the curse of the nine symphonies to those who don't know much about classical music. Perhaps it makes classical music a bit intriguing to the novice.


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## BRHiler (May 3, 2014)

You forgot Vaughan Williams on that list.

What I find more interesting is the keys that each of the composers chose to write their 9th in.

Beethoven d min
Bruckner d min
Mahler D Maj
Dvorak e min
RVW e min

Then, there's Shostakovich. The powers that be wanted another Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, majestic 9th symphony......

Shosty wrote in the key of Eb, and wrote a very "Classic", light, style piece. If that's not giving the Soviet leadership the middle finger, I don't know what is!


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

Superstitious tosh. I'm composing my tenth right...WAAAAAAAAGH!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

senza sordino said:


> We'll of course it is a coincidence! I find it curious that the story continues to swirl around. But I think the story might swirl around more for those less familiar with classical music. We in the know can name composers who wrote more than nine symphonies. I like telling the story of the curse of the nine symphonies to those who don't know much about classical music. Perhaps it makes classical music a bit intriguing to the novice.


I think people just like to be spooked. My SO turns on the "horror movie" channel, watching giant sharks or giant piranhas, the size of buildings devouring everything in sight. And it never fails, at the most exciting, revolting parts, she hides her face in her hands and refuses to watch! Yet the next night, she turns the same channel on!

The 9 symphony curse would be right up her alley.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

mtmailey said:


> I saw this online once about a composer dies after writing 9 symphonies.It seems real to me though because some of the best composers died after writing 9 symphonies.Schubert ,Beethoven ,Dvorak ALL DIED .So what do you think?


Except Beethoven, they all though they would be compared with Beethoven who was their benchmark. And they probably fantasied they were a Ludvig towering symphonist!


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