# Jazzing up the classics



## Marcos (May 3, 2021)

Is anyone else a fan of this? Or is it sacrilege?! There seemed to be a real craze for it in the 1930s and 1940s with some swing bands taking on lots of big name composers, usually with tongue firmly in cheek. Having said that, my favourite is Donald Lambert's stride piano take on Wagner from 1941.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I abhor that kind of thing. It's like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa, or chopping man parts off of statues. It's a sacrilege and disrespectful to the real genius: the original composer. This one is utterly contemptible:


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

mbhaub said:


>


What a marvel! Thank you


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Uri Caine is pretty well known for this (Bach, Mahler, probably some others). Here is his take on Mahler's Songs of a Wayfare: I Went Out This Morning Over the Countryside.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Claude Bolling made quite a few albums.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

I'm a huge fan of this stuff. Sacrilege? Who cares!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Last year I picked up Blues on Bach by the Modern Jazz Quartet. And there's the Third Stream movement led by composers such as Gunther Schuller. Composer Marc Anthony Turnage has been involved in similar projects including some collaborations with John Scofield. I really like the DG disc, Scorched.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It's usually far more respectful than Mona Lisa's moustache. The most famous person for this was probably Jacques Loussier with mostly Bach. I tend to like it in small doses but it seems more old fashioned (60s-70s) than the real thing now. 
The MJQ Bach and Blues is more interesting, I think. 
I heard one of Caine's (Schumann or Beethoven) at a friends in the early 2000s when this stuff was brand new and detested it. It seems that for me it depends extremely on how it is done if I find it (mildly) interesting or a complete waste of resources...


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## Marcos (May 3, 2021)

Here is Alice Coltrane reworking Chopin. Sounds great to me...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

There are two composers who do this very well IMO - Bernhard Lang and Scott Fields.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Marcos said:


> Here is Alice Coltrane reworking Chopin. Sounds great to me...


Lol if I had to guess who this was I'd say AC in a heartbeat.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Marcos said:


> Here is Alice Coltrane reworking Chopin. Sounds great to me...


Way too many notes. :lol:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I think this one by Stan Kenton is pretty awful. But Kenton did have a Wagner complex.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I have a soft spot for Les Brown's take on Bizet.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

More Bizet, from Barney Kessel:


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

I don't think it's sacrilege and definitely not a moustache on Mona Lisa.

Some musicians stay close to the original, some others are more creative.
I like most of Jacques Loussier's work mainly with Bach. Uri Caine's approach is more radical and maybe not for everybody.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The idea doesn't particularly bother me whether I like the results or not - at least Duke Ellington is providing his own take on things and not merely ripping the p1$$ out of it. Everything is fair game for the cover version treatment - whether it be the Beatles or Stockhausen.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)




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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

"Jazzing up the classics...Or is it sacrilege?!"

I don't think it's anymore sacrilege than Rachmaninoff's _Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini_; or Brahms' _Haydn Variations_; or the _Violin Concerto_ by Vivaldi that Bach transcribed for piano (or was it the other way around?).

I used to think that classical music was all about melody but now I see that it's more about harmony, development, and fine craftsmanship. Jazz artists may borrow themes from classical composers because most classical composers borrowed themes from folk songs. Ives took from the well of American folk songs and church hymns and even managed to get _Columbia Gem of the Ocean_ into almost everything he ever composed. How popular would Copland's _Appalachian Spring_ be without the Shaker melody? Didn't Bedrich Smetana borrow his main theme for _Vlatava_ from an Italian madrigal; before it recycled a third time as the Israeli national anthem?


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> I abhor that kind of thing. It's like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa, or chopping man parts off of statues. It's a sacrilege and disrespectful to the real genius: the original composer. This one is utterly contemptible:


personally I loved it, and I think that Ellington did in a very tasteful way (after all it's Ellington).


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> I abhor that kind of thing. It's like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa, or chopping man parts off of statues. It's a sacrilege and disrespectful to the real genius: the original composer. This one is utterly contemptible:


Come on, how is it any more or less disrespectful than a composer taking someone else's tune and writing variations on it?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

If it has to be done to any work, perhaps this is where it is most appropriate:






I don't see how a blind pianist being able to improvise brilliantly and coherently on such a large work is contemptible or even less "genius" than the original composition.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

what about the opposite thing, jazz pieces recorded as classical music?


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Coach G said:


> Jazz artists may borrow themes from classical composers because most classical composers borrowed themes from folk songs. Ives took from the well of American folk songs and church hymns and even managed to get _Columbia Gem of the Ocean_ into almost everything he ever composed. How popular would Copland's _Appalachian Spring_ be without the Shaker melody? Didn't Bedrich Smetana borrow his main theme for _Vlatava_ from an Italian madrigal; before it recycled a third time as the Israeli national anthem?


How about this? 
1. Franz Lachner composed a symphony (No. 6 in D major)
2. Robert Schumann thought that the music would work fine as a song and adapted the end of the first movement into a lied "Frühlingsfahrt"
3. the Russians taught Schumann's lieder to students, and a bright young composer named Kalinnikov thought that this particular tune would work great in a symphonic setting. He developed the symphonic poem "Bylina" out of it. 
4. 40 years later a choir director named Alexandrov thought that the theme from Kalinnikov's tone poem would work great as a song and composed the anthem of the communist party out of it...


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

chu42 said:


> Come on, how is it any more or less disrespectful than a composer taking someone else's tune and writing variations on it?


(Because it's black music)


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> (Because it's black music)


Boom goes the dynamite! (And now this thread will be closed shortly.)


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

chu42 said:


> Come on, how is it any more or less disrespectful than a composer taking someone else's tune and writing variations on it?


It's jazz. I can't stand it. Ok, it's my problem, but...jazz cd sales are even lower than classical. I just don't understand, appreciate or like jazz...any of it. It grates on my ear worse than Stockhausen!


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> It's jazz. I can't stand it. Ok, it's my problem, but...jazz cd sales are even lower than classical. I just don't understand, appreciate or like jazz...any of it. It grates on my ear worse than Stockhausen!


As someone who likes both Stockhausen and jazz, I respect your opinion but I think it stinks.


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## jkl (May 4, 2021)

Jazz have been used as background music in so many places. I don't think that is necessarily good for it as it doesn't make people listen to it carefully.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

jkl said:


> Jazz have been used as background music in so many places. I don't think that is necessarily good for it as it doesn't make people listen to it carefully.


The same can be said for classical music, unfortunately


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

As Duke Ellington said, if it sounds good, it is good. As are John Lewis and his wife Mirjana (a classical harpsichordist) in the Goldberg Variations:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> It's jazz. I can't stand it. Ok, it's my problem, but...jazz cd sales are even lower than classical. I just don't understand, appreciate or like jazz...any of it. It grates on my ear worse than Stockhausen!


How much have you actually listened to? I mean if you love music you must enjoy beautiful melodies? The world of jazz is full of hundreds of them written by the great masters like Ellington, Monk, Chick Corea, and many others.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I am almost as big a jazz fan as I am a classical fan, but I never liked this 'jazzed up classical' style.

It comes off as cliched and cheesy to me. With a bit of an exception with the Alice Coltrane clip posted. 

Maybe my problem is, the classical that is usually chosen for these 'jazz' interpretations, is almost always from earlier periods, which I do not like. And the jazz style that is usually used, is very cliched. Like kind of mundane stuff you'd hear in a local jazz club.

I am a much more of a fan of jazz that has a lot of modern classical influences. Like much of the stuff on the ECM label, or sax player Anthony Braxton, pianist Anthony Davis' "Variations in Dream-Time", or flautist James Newton, and others.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

ECM has tons of great stuff. Artists like Ralph Towner don't need to "jazz up the classics" because he composes his own superb music for classical guitar, 12 string, and piano. And it's totally contemporary and highly original sounding music. The same for Egberto Gismonti who has many albums on ECM.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> It's jazz. I can't stand it. Ok, it's my problem, but...jazz cd sales are even lower than classical. I just don't understand, appreciate or like jazz...any of it. It grates on my ear worse than Stockhausen!





starthrower said:


> How much have you actually listened to? I mean if you love music you must enjoy beautiful melodies? The world of jazz is full of hundreds of them written by the great masters like Ellington, Monk, Chick Corea, and many others.


I have never heard anyone say they disliked Herbie Hancock.


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## jkl (May 4, 2021)

chu42 said:


> The same can be said for classical music, unfortunately


Yes most people don't care for classical music anyway. But for jazz it is something that people can listen to readily and having it as background won't do it justice.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

I like Uri Caine's Mahler reworkings as they explore different aspects of the music, for example here is a klezmer version of the funeral march that opens the 5th symphony


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Marcos said:


> Is anyone else a fan of this? Or is it sacrilege?! There seemed to be a real craze for it in the 1930s and 1940s with some swing bands taking on lots of big name composers, usually with tongue firmly in cheek. Having said that, my favourite is Donald Lambert's stride piano take on Wagner from 1941.


I dunno. Is this sacrilege?:



consuono said:


> The prelude to Die Meistersinger. I would say also the Tannhäuser prelude if I didn't always associate it with Bugs Bunny riding on that fat-bottomed white horse now. I see on YT that there's a live performance featuring some topless women, so maybe that would overcome the Bugs Bunny imagery.
> 
> 
> hammeredklavier said:
> ...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Japanese traditional Enka style arrangement on Chopin Etude No.3"Adeu":


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

One of my favorite discs.









Arrangement are by jazz master pianist Fred Hersch who plays with Steve Laspina on bass and Joey Baron on drums. Selections feature jazzmen James Newton on flute, Kevin Eubanks on guitar, Toots Thielemans on harmonica, Eddie Daniels on clarinet.

Tracklist
A1	Prélude From "Suite Bergamasque" Composed By - Claude Debussy 4:05
A2	1st Movement (Modéré) From "Sonatine" Composed By - Maurice Ravel 4:15
A3	Sicilienne, Op. 78 Composed By - Gabriel Fauré 3:37
A4	Prélude From "Le Tombeau De Couperin" Composed By - Maurice Ravel 3:24
A5	Après Un Rêve, Op. 7 No. 1 Composed By - Gabriel Fauré 6:04
A6	Clair De Lune From "Suite Bergamasque" Composed By - Claude Debussy 4:44
B1	Cantilena From Flute Sonata Composed By - Francis Poulenc 4:23
B2	Pavane Composed By - Gabriel Fauré 4:29
B3	Nos. 2 & 3 From "Valses Nobles Et Sentimentales" Composed By - Maurice Ravel 6:11
B4	Pavane Pour Une Infante Défunte Composed By - Maurice Ravel 4:42
B5	Gymnopédie No. 1 Composed By - Erik Satie 5:32

What is here not to like. Some of the finest French "classical" music rendered in refreshingly sane, tasteful and stylish jazz renditions. It's almost as if this music was meant to be jazz.

Here's a sample: for those who love moonlight --






And another: for those with a penchant for exercising naked --






The album ranks high on my list of all time favorite records, enhanced by its nod to both the classical and the jazz worlds.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

jkl said:


> Yes most people don't care for classical music anyway. But for jazz it is something that people can listen to readily and having it as background won't do it justice.


ok, one is jazz, one is classical music, tell me which one of the two could work as background music (I'm not saying anything about the quality of the music, I love both)











(obviously not all classical music can work as background music, as not all jazz is a light rendition of the Girl from Ipanema - which is in any case, even if overplayed and used as elevator music, a great song)


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Marcos said:


> Is anyone else a fan of this? Or is it sacrilege?!


While I'm not a big big fan, I don't get why it should be seen as a sacrilege when composers of the past did that all the time. Many of the great classical composers were also great improvisers (unlike today, sadly...) and constantly did variations on a theme in public, even someone else's theme. Even to mock composers. Not many variations have been written down sadly, expecially those from classical period, but famous examples are Rachmaninov's variations on Paganini, Liszt's variations on themes from Mozart operas and so on. In their case it actually showed great respect for Paganini, Mozart etc. I've read Stravinsky once saw Miles Davis playing (or another one, I don't remember), and Davis paid omage to him (he liked his music and studied it) by doing "a musical quote" of his works while playing, Stravinsky was so excited and surprised that he screamed and for the enthusiasm threw his drink! I can let you imagine how Stravinsky would feel about jazz variations of his works. You say they were mocking classical composers, I think it depends. Probably, since old people criticized jazz at the time, some players dissed them by mocking their "old taste", a totally appropriate answer if you ask me. Mozart did the same with his musical jokes. But it is sure many actually respected classical composers, expecially if we're talking about today's musicians. I think they were also trying to augment their public by blending some classical with jazz, it's a great marketing strategy. Anyway, today as I said it's not unrespectful. There are even metal covers and I think they're very cool.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

I find it interesting when jazzers give classical music a true, free improvisational treatment, rather than the "swingle singers" approach. In the Goldberg Variations of John and Mirjana Lewis that a linked in my previous post, Mirjana Lewis plays a variation as written on a French double harpsichord, the instrument Bach wrote for, and then John Lewis does a jazz improvisation on that variation, and they alternate in that fashion.

In this album by another jazz icon, saxophonist Lee Konitz, with the Axis String Quartet, the opposite approach is taken. Pieces by Debussy and Satie are arranged for this combination, and sections of free improvisation are built in, such that, if you are not thoroughly familiar with the originals, it is very hard to tell where Debussy and Satie end and improvisation begins.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

One of my favorites is the Vienna Art Orchestra's _The Minimalism of Erik Satie_.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

fluteman said:


> I find it interesting when jazzers give classical music a true, free improvisational treatment, rather than the "swingle singers" approach.


And it's disappointing when a living legend like Hancock gives Gershwin such a stilted interpretation:


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

chu42 said:


> And it's disappointing when a living legend like Hancock gives Gershwin such a stilted interpretation:


Rhapsody in Blue is very much a classical music piece, though it contains elements of jazz, swing and earlier dance hall popular music traditions. There really isn't much room for free harmonic or rhythmic improvisation, except in the cadenza-like solo sections. At one point, Hancock does shift into a ragtime style for a few bars. I wish there was more of that kind of expressive freedom.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

fluteman said:


> Rhapsody in Blue is very much a classical music piece, though it contains elements of jazz, swing and earlier dance hall popular music traditions. There really isn't much room for free harmonic or rhythmic improvisation, except in the cadenza-like solo sections. At one point, Hancock does shift into a ragtime style for a few bars. I wish there was more of that kind of expressive freedom.


Marcus Roberts plays it much more freely:






Even if it is a bit self-indulgent, it is still a fresh taste from the usual.

Also, who's to say that the great keyboard improvisers like Liszt, Beethoven, or even Bach weren't self-indulgent from time to time? Or maybe even all the time!


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

chu42 said:


> Marcus Roberts plays it much more freely:


I loved that. It might have been even better if they had dispensed with the full symphonic band, which fluffed it up a bit, and cut it down to a quintet or sextet. Still, that was terrific Thanks.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

I love this sort of thing. A couple of people have already mentioned Uri Caine, who I think may be the best practitioner of this. Hearing great music reinterpreted often gives me greater appreciation for the original piece. It's like hearing it with fresh ears.

It certainly doesn't tarnish the original. The original is still there for anyone who wants to hear it.

Here's another example: Michael Bates (bass player, composer, band leader) doing the 4th movement of Shostakovich's second piano trio.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I like Peter Breiner's recording of Mozart's Piano Concerto no.20 with jazzified cadenzas.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

fluteman said:


> Rhapsody in Blue is very much a classical music piece, though it contains elements of jazz, swing and earlier dance hall popular music traditions. There really isn't much room for free harmonic or rhythmic improvisation, except in the cadenza-like solo sections. At one point, Hancock does shift into a ragtime style for a few bars. I wish there was more of that kind of expressive freedom.


Agreed. I hate it when people pretend that Rhapsody in Blue is some sort of "equal collaboration" between classical music and jazz. For heaven's sake, it was written for Paul Whiteman, the white self-billed 'King of Jazz' who tried to turn what he regarded as unruly music into concert fare. In his famous words, he intended to "make a lady of jazz." If it isn't played like how Marcus Roberts did it, I think the piece ends up aging pretty badly.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Portamento said:


> Agreed. I hate it when people pretend that Rhapsody in Blue is some sort of "equal collaboration" between classical music and jazz. For heaven's sake, it was written for Paul Whiteman, the white self-billed 'King of Jazz' who tried to turn what he regarded as unruly music into concert fare. In his famous words, he intended to "make a lady of jazz." If it isn't played like how Marcus Roberts did it, I think the piece ends up aging pretty badly.


And I agree entirely with that. Rhapsody in Blue is an artifact of a certain time and place in America, namely New York City at its peak as a cultural mecca, beginning in the 1920s. It evokes the jazz clubs of Harlem and the musicals of the Great White Way, but in the end it is firmly in the white tie and tails concert hall and the virtuoso piano concerto tradition of Liszt and Rachmaninoff.

Even Marcus Roberts, inventive as he is (and he is impressive, no doubt) is somewhat straitjacketed in his attempt to break new ground. I think it not surprising that many of the more successful jazz versions of classical standards take Bach and the French impressionists as their source material. A lot of baroque and 'impressionist' music is in a format more friendly for improvisation.


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## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

Even Oscar Peterson had a go


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

fluteman said:


> And I agree entirely with that. Rhapsody in Blue is an artifact of a certain time and place in America, namely New York City at its peak as a cultural mecca, beginning in the 1920s. It evokes the jazz clubs of Harlem and the musicals of the Great White Way, but in the end it is firmly in the white tie and tails concert hall and the virtuoso piano concerto tradition of Liszt and Rachmaninoff.
> 
> Even Marcus Roberts, inventive as he is (and he is impressive, no doubt) is somewhat straitjacketed in his attempt to break new ground. I think it not surprising that many of the more successful jazz versions of classical standards take Bach and the French impressionists as their source material. A lot of baroque and 'impressionist' music is in a format more friendly for improvisation.


As someone who was also around in New York in the roaring '20s I agree with this.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

To me, this piece is like ballet/stage music where there must be some kind of "theatrical gestures" from the performer that follows along with the music.
And no one does it better than:


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Before posting something featuring the major premise of "jazzing up" the classics, I would offer the Swingle Singers that don't touch a note of Bach but merely swing.






Now here's an unexpected "jazzing up" of Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps"


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

I really like this.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Fazil Say's arrangements are successful to the extent they're also played by other performers:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

hammeredklavier said:


> Fazil Say's arrangements are successful to the extent they're also played by other performers:


That one is too jazzy for me. I prefer the Volodos transcription:


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

The Upper Austrian Jazz Orchestra recorded a Bruckner cd in 2012.

Symphony no. 7; 3rd movt. =>


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Here's something currently playing on my rig at the moment:









I have more than a couple dozen of the splendidly well-recorded "Live at Smalls" jazz club CDs, and this one, SmallsLIVE ‎- SL0021 (recorded at Smalls Jazz Club, Greenwich Village, NYC in early December 2010, features saxophonist Tim Ries and his Quintet blowing through five "tunes", two of which are classically based: Track 4 - "Schubert String Quartet #14 In D Minor 'Death And The Maiden'" [25:45], and Track 5 "Prelude To Bach Cello Suite" [2:21]. Ries's group is a fine ensemble that manages this music with skill and a creative flair. You've probably never heard either Schubert _or_ Bach played this way. Perfect music for a jazz club, regardless of the audience's level of "classical music" sophistication.

A few days back I had the following disc spinning in the SONY SA5400ES:









I was playing the piece I specifically purchased the disc to hear: "A Little Midnight Music" (Ruminations on "Round Midnight" by Theolonius Monk) written by George Crumb, performed here splendidly by pianist Kai Schumacher. [The disc is on Hänssler Classic SCM label, CD-93-334, and was recorded in Germany in 2014 and 2015.] This is fine music, hard to categorize as either classical or jazz, existing somewhere on the boundary line between the two, a place where much else fine music resides.

The disc also features "Dream" by John Cage, "Summer Phantoms: Nocturne" by Brian Belet, "Urban Nocturnes" by Bruce Stark, and the work that opens the disc: "Sleepless Night (Prelude)" a George Gershwin composition in a solo piano arrangement from 1946 by Kay Swift. A fascinating album all way around, and as strange, perhaps, as the cover image purports to be.

And, because good things often come in threes, and because I don't think this one has been mentioned yet, I offer for consideration of those looking to add "classical/jazz-jazz/classical" pieces to their collections a fine work by Miles Davis, with a little help from Spanish composer Joaquín Rodrigo and arranger Gil Evans: the "tune" titled "Concierto De Aranjuez (Adagio)" is Davis's nod to the famous Guitar Concerto (the second movement) by Rodrigo. It appears on the _Sketches Of Spain_ album, released on the Columbia ‎label.









I prefer the sound of my yellow & red mixed vinyl copy (Columbia ‎- CL 1480) to the ones I have on CD. But however you hear this, it's well worth the time, as is any listen to the original for guitar and orchestra, though few play this as well as John Williams or Pepe Romero, the two versions of the Rodrigo concerto I most favor.


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