# Olivier Messiaen



## Hazel

Olivier Messiaen composed a six-hour opera, _Saint Francois d'Assise_. That is one long opera. Has anyone sat through that? Are there other such long operas? That is pretty much a full day - or night. How long are operas usually?


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## starthrower

I've sat through a number of Messiaen's works without much enjoyment. I wouldn't sit through six hours of opera unless I had a gun to my head.


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## StlukesguildOhio

From what I've seen of Messiaen's _Saint Francois d'Assise_ it isn't 6 but rather around 4 hours long. That is still rather lengthy... but not unheard of. Wagner surely has a number in that range... and of course the entire _Der Ring des Nibelungens_, a whole comprised of 4 operas... must be somewhere a 12 or 14 hour range. Most operas are no longer than most theatrical productions... and vary as much as they do... from less to an hour to more than 4 (_Hamlet_).


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## elgar's ghost

I haven't heard Saint Francois d'Assise but if I was given a choice to see an opera of four hour's duration that isn't Wagner then I would certainly pick that rather than Philip Glass's mind-numbing Einstein On The Beach or any of Meyerbeer's snail's-pace efforts.


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## Hazel

I was truly surprised to hear that operas went on that long. Do they have intermissions like long plays have? I suppose one needs a stretch but, to me, that always broke up the story and I never really go back into it. Still -- six hours, or four even, is a bit much.


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## DABTSAR

i think i could do a 6 hour opera if they let me nap and smoke cigs during


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## DABTSAR

@starthrower
ever head quatuor pour la fin du temps?
THis ones really nice too


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## Jeremy Marchant

I had the privilege and pleasure to hear The London Philharmonic perform _St Francoise d'Assise_ at the Royal Festival Hall in May 1988 for the composer's eightieth birthday. He was in the audience.

It certainly wasn't a case of "sitting through" it. It was a wonderful experience.

The DG/Nagano recording is five minutes under four hours. That's long, as there would have been two intervals as well. But Stockhausen's _Montag_, _Mittwoch _and _Sontag _are each longer, as is _Einstein on the beach_, if you do anything like all the repeats in the full score.


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## Vaneyes

More might attend opera, if they did just the highlights.


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## Philip

to me this is Messiaen:


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## msegers

The running time for the DVD of Saint Francois is 275 min. You'd need a couple of breaks, which would add to the total performance time. My memories of my few occasions at the Met are that for many people, the intermissions were the high point of the evening, a time to see and be seen. 

According to Wikipedia, Meistersinger is "among the longest operas still commonly performed today, usually taking around four and a half hours" - with running time for the Levin/Met DVD listed at 292 minutes. When a wise old friend of mine heard that I had tickets for Meistersinger, he sighed, "Oh, take pillows, take bonbons, take a thermos of coffee, and for God's sake, take a flask of brandy for emergencies."


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## Hazel

Philip said:


> to me this is Messiaen:


2030 AD? Surpasses 2001 AD, for certain.

I'm sorry. I don't think that comes off quite as I meant it. In both cases, you're taken on a long slow procession, just holding your breath until you arrive and then turn around and another procession back to the beginning. Through space or down an aisle, it all amounts to the same kind of music.


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## Turangalîla

Philip said:


> to me this is Messiaen:


You have obviously not listened to much of Messiaen. This is a very reverent (and to some, boring) organ work which is not at all typical of his colourful style. Go listen to Quatuor pour la fin du temps, Turangalîla-Symphonie, and Vingt regards sur l'enfant-Jésus. I think it is finer music than anything else from the 20th century-so full of colour, animation, passion, and spirit.


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## Philip

to me this is Messiaen:


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## Webernite

Charles Rosen calls this opera "St. Francis Walking on the Birds." I haven't heard it myself.


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## Webernite

I haven't heard it myself, but Charles Rosen calls this opera "St. Francis Walking on the Birds." Funny, but unkind. I assume he's referring to Messiaen's atonal-ish representation of birdsong...


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## Jeremy Marchant

Webernite said:


> I haven't heard it myself, but Charles Rosen calls this opera "St. Francis Walking on the Birds." Funny, but unkind. I assume he's referring to Messiaen's atonal-ish representation of birdsong...


Charles Rosen is admirable in many ways, not least as a pianist - his fine recordings on CBS of the late Beethoven piano sonatas sustained me when I was a student - and author - his book _The classical style_ is required reading for all TC members choosing to comment on classical composers.

However, that is a silly remark bordering on the meaningless.

It is entirely appropriate that Messiaen should choose the story of St Francis - after all, his religious devotion, even if we don't share it ourselves, was complete and entirely authentic, and his use of birdsong for thematic material idiomatic and imaginative. It would have been interesting to have heard Rosen in a couple of the _Catalogue d'oiseaux_, say. I actually think he would have done them rather well.


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## PetrB

Vaneyes said:


> More might attend opera, if they did just the highlights.


That's called a recital, friend. They're done often enough :tiphat:


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