# LTTP: Bach Cantatas



## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Bach has been a favorite of mine since I've been introduced to classical music. I've been countlessly amazed by the genius in his instrumental compositions. Alas, I'd sampled a few of his cantatas in the past, but they never caught on in the same way. I'm ready to give it another shot.

I recently ordered the complete cantata set by Koopman, 67 cds worth of them, and it just arrived today. I am embarking on a journey to discover a new side of Bach. Wish me luck!

I will try to listen to one a day. First on the horizon: BWV 26, 125, 178.

What other sets do people enjoy? I've heard good things about the Suzuki and the Gardiner.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Gardiner is my personal favorite, although I can see why people favor Suzuki. 

Bach's cantatas aren't really something I like to have full cycles of, though. I don't think there is a single cycle that has been done all well, so I advise you to pick up your favorite recordings of your favorite cantatas.

That being said, you should get on BVW 4 soon. That was the first cantata that I fell in love with and jesus christ (no pun intended), it was so monumental.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Koopman is the set I prefer, it seems to have more poise and consistency than Gardiner, but I would put Gardiner as my second favourite. I didn't much like some of the singers in the Suzuki set although the music is good. I particularly enjoy what I have heard of Sigiswald Kuijken's one voice per part, partial set (15 CDs).


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't own any complete set, mostly because I like to mix and match, this said, I quite like Siggi Kuijken's growing set the most! (also have all of his Passion and the B-minor Mass), Besides Kuijken I've built my own "complete" HIP collection with parts from Herreweghe, Leonhardt/Harnoncourt, Hogwood, Gardiner, Koopman and Suzuki, "Purcell Quartet", Bicket, Kussmaul, Rifkin, Coin, Mullejans, Haselböck and King to name a few. I also like the two sets of Bach I have with Rene Jacobs as a conductor (Chirstmas Oratorio and B-minor Mass) that I enjoy immensely. 

/ptr


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I like Richter and Suzuki. I have about a dozen of CD's of the former and 50+ of the ongoing Suzuki series.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Good listening to you! I have the first seven volumes of Koopman and would have kept with them, except the BMG Music Club stopped offering them at Vol. 7. I completed my collection with Pieter Jan Leusink's series on Brilliant, and I've supplemented with a few from Suzuki, Gardiner, Herreweghe, and Harnoncourt.

Personally, Suzuki, though technically perfect, hasn't connected with me. Herreweghe is too mannered/proper/nice for my ears. Gardiner was surprisingly disappointing - in the recordings I have, something is lacking, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Harnoncourt is interesting for using a boy choir, but that's about it. After the first couple volumes, Koopman was settling into a nice series; I particularly like what he was doing after he replaced Barbara Schlick (I don't like the way she sings; mushy is the only term I can use for it.)

Personally, though it's the least perfect of all of them, I like Leusink. He also uses boys; his female soprano intentionally sings like a boy; and his orchestra plays well. On the downside, his countertenor isn't that great; he sounds like his mouth is full of Novocaine. And the boys could have used more rehearsals - they recorded the cycle too quickly. But to me, if you're looking for a historically informed performance, it's probably what the original cantatas sounded like in Bach's church. What they lack in technique they make up in energy. But I understand I'm in the extreme minority here.

You're about to embark on a great journey. One year I listened to one cantata an evening until I finished the whole cycle. I was impressed with how every human condition was addressed. Bach's music lets you confront the problem and leads you through it.

Here's a great website to help you with your listening. Simon Couch's listening guide gives you the highlights of each piece; it really helped me. 
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Intro.htm


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Duplicate post - sorry.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2013)

My vote is for Suzuki! I have several of his series, and love them. After that, I really enjoy Herreweghe, but I don't know if he actually recorded them all, but certainly a large chunk.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I quite like the Suzuki cycles. The musicology is impressive. The spirit of the performance and recordings are there. It feels to me this set would come closest to what JS Bach would ideally have realised (note that Bach himself was far from impressed with the available resources at Leipzig when his church cantatas were first performed there). We need to note that these cantatas were almost always first performed inside a church during a church service, hence the terms "church cantatas". Although I am no Christian, I do prefer to have these pieces performed today in spirit that resembles the original intentions.

The other HIP sets mentioned are generally very fine. I have at least listened to many of them here and there. Gardiner's come across as quite dramatic in interpretation, which I quite like as a concert performance. The Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set though fine, sound a touch "aged" as far as HIP is concerned. But really, we are fine picking amongst the finest.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I've listened to a few now (4-21-26-31-125-131-178-185), and they really are sublime! Great instrumentation, great vocal parts. I really like the Koopman performances, too, both from the ensemble and from the choir/singers.

Discovering a new aspect of Bach is always such a joy.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Llyranor said:


> I've listened to a few now (4-21-26-31-125-131-178-185), and they really are sublime! Great instrumentation, great vocal parts. I really like the Koopman performances, too, both from the ensemble and from the choir/singers.
> 
> Discovering a new aspect of Bach is always such a joy.


Good. That's exactly why most of us consider him to be one of the very greatest of them all.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I've listened to a few more. 30, 71, 80, 106, 150, 196.

And wow, they really are something else, aren't they? There's something quite magical about them. Love the counterpoint, too.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Cantatas, and by default Bach's, are probably my favourite area of classical music. They are like miniature vocal essays, not as long and rambling as a whole opera but more depth than a typical classical song. Despite Bach's Mass being regarded as his masterpiece I have never warmed to it in quite the way the cantatas were instant hits.

I particularly like 199, a solo soprano cantata and 211 the coffee cantata, the latter showing that boring, religious Bach could have been a rival to Rossini for comic opera if he had chosen to write more secular cantatas.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh wow, BWV 162 is so amazing. Especially that first movement...

In any case, I'm really happy with the Koopman set. High consistent quality so far.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I have most of Herreweghe recordings of Bach's cantatas, a good number by Gardiner, Suzuki, and Richter... as well as selected recordings by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Anne-Sofie von Otter, Joshua Rifkin, Monica Groop, Purcell Quartet, and a number of others. Recently I purchased the complete set by Helmuth Rilling... simply because I could not pass it up at the then price of some $35 US... for what are truly solid performances. I am familiar with Koopman's recordings through Spotify, but I lean toward the Gardiner set as my favorite... with Herreweghe and Suzuki not far behind.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I have most of Herreweghe recordings of Bach's cantatas, a good number by Gardiner, Suzuki, and Richter... as well as selected recordings by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Anne-Sofie von Otter, Joshua Rifkin, Monica Groop, Purcell Quartet, and a number of others. Recently I purchased the complete set by Helmuth Rilling... simply because I could not pass it up at the then price of some $35 US... for what are truly solid performances. I am familiar with Koopman's recordings through Spotify, but I lean toward the Gardiner set as my favorite... with Herreweghe and Suzuki not far behind.


That's a damn good price - US$35 for 71 CDs, right? I would have done the same. Where/how?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I picked it up through an Amazon Marketplace dealer a couple of months ago. The price may have been $37 or $38... but it was definitely below $40 and obviously I thought, "A little more than 50 cents per disc?! Holy Sh**!!!" I quickly asked about for opinions on Rilling, and the responses were mostly positive, so I jumped. I have been quite pleased with the purchase. Indeed, I might say that only this set might have been a better buy:










It contains Gardiner's recordings of the Mass in B-minor, The Magnificat, The Saint Matthew Passion, The Saint John Passion, The Easter Oratorio, and 11 discs of the finest of Bach's cantatas all performed by the English Baroque Soloists and the Monteverdi Choir with some of the finest soloists. I picked it up 2 or 3 years ago... again through a Marketplace dealer... for about the same price.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Ok, since starting this thread, I've devoured about 15 cds of cantatas. They are just so delicious <3


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

I adore Bach's cantatas. I have over half of the collection, mostly Gardiner. It was my experience listening to them that forever secured Bach's position as the greatest of all composers.


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## Gersen (Jun 13, 2013)

I am "new" to the cantatas. I'm slowly collecting the volumes from Gardiner's Bach Cantata Pilgrimage, at the rate of 2 volumes per year. I have 5 of them and the sixth is on the way. It takes me a while to warm up to Bach, usually 5 or 10 listenings before I start to appreciate a particular cantata. Then I'll continue to soak them in for a few months before I pick a new volume. At this rate of course I have many more years to go, as there are 28 volumes in the set.

I love the idea of the Bach Cantata Pilgrimage and I watched the documentary several times before I bought my first volume, so that's why I chose Gardiner. I will say there are a few performances by others (Koopman's 147 comes to mind) that I've seen on youtube that I like a bit better, but of course some of the Gardiner recordings seem as good as I could imagine. I particularly like any BCP cantata that Joanne Lunn sings on. Gardiner's 109 and 115 are so good they're almost too rich. And... 61, 62, 122, 28, 190, 123, 154, 32... yeah.

I'm also amusing myself by arranging some of the recitatives on the piano. The recitatives confused me at first. I didn't like 'em. Then something clicked... I get it now.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm still slowly continuing on this (amazing) journey. I've gone through 28 CD's so far (some cantatas I've listened to more than others).

They are consistently great. Granted, not all movements are at the same level of greatness, but there's always something to appreciate from each cantata. I really love the counterpoint. I like his chorale movements the most, but I also really appreciate the constrast of the movements with soloist with sparse instrumentation.

I remember a few years back when I was just getting into Bach. Hearing German singing was kind of a turn-off, kept me away from the cantatas for so long. I feel as though I'm able to really soak in and appreciate the sound now (and the talent of the singers). In fact, I think Bach's cantatas are kind of transitioning me into giving Wagner more of a chance than I ever did before.


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