# TC's 50 Greatest Composers List



## Turangalîla

Hello everyone,

I noticed that there has been no thread or poll listing Talk Classical's top composers. I realize that many people disagree with "ranking" or "rating" composers (I have no problem with it), and so if you are one of those people, feel free to not participate in the selection process. 

I would like to see a list of the "Top Fifty" composers in order of ranking. List your chosen composers and the amount of "points" that you would like to award them. You can list up to and including ten (10) composers. You may give each composer up to and including ten (10) points, but you cannot give more than one composer the same amount of points. (This prevents people from giving all ten favourites ten points each). Here is an example post (I have picked some more ridiculous options to avoid any bias ):

Nikolai Kapustin - 10 pts.
Orlando Gibbons - 8 pts.
Antonio Salieri - 7 pts.
John Cage - 5 pts.
Percy Grainger - 3 pts.
Glenn Gould - 1 pt.

Most of you will probably just list your top ten.

You may also choose *one* (1) composer that you dislike from whom I will deduct *three* (3) points.

You can vote in this thread *once per day*. This way, the people who really care about it get more of an influence. You do not necessarily have to pick the same composers every time.

You also do not have to always give the most points to your favourite. If your favourite two composers are Bach and Mozart, but you also worship Webern, you could choose to give Webern ten points since Bach and Mozart will obviously be near the top of the list anyways. But *if everyone does this, we will have a very odd list*. 

I will calculate points and update the list every day or so.

Cheers!
Carter


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## Trout

I did compile a top composer list based on an earlier composer ranking thread here.


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## Polyphemus

1 Bruckner 10 pts
2 Mahler 9 pts
3 Rachmaninov 8 pts
4 Bartok 7 pts
5 Schubert 6 pts
6 Beethoven 5 pt
7 Penderecki 4 pts
8 Simpson 3 pts
9 Tchaikovsky 2 pts
10 Shostakovich 1 pt

So many left out but I tried to be representative. I will by all means add a second list in due course.

If I am allowed to give the -3 points as an extra then make it Wagner.


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## Turangalîla

Polyphemus said:


> Simpson 3 pts


Robert Simpson or Thomas Simpson?

**NOTE TO ALL**: If the composer is obscure or lesser-known, please include their first names so I can be sure as to who it is. This also applies to last names that belong to more than one composer. If someone puts "Bach", I will assume it is J.S., but I would prefer people to be specific.


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## Turangalîla

Trout said:


> I did compile a top composer list based on an earlier composer ranking thread here.


Thank you, Trout; I was not aware that that existed. However, I wouldn't mind continuing with mine anyways, especially because I like the "disliked composer" option (and I am hoping that Schubert will not show up so highly-ranked on this one).


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## Polyphemus

Apologies Carter I meant Robert Simpson.


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## science

Beethoven - 10
Bach - 9 
Mozart - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Haydn - 5
Debussy - 4
Dvorak - 3
Stravinsky - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

I will apply the -3 to Schobert.


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## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1


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## pjang23

Is this a favorites list? Or who we think is greatest?

Bach - 10
Mozart - 9
Beethoven - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Haydn - 5
Debussy - 4
Mahler - 3
Wagner - 2
Stravinsky - 1


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## Turangalîla

Thank you, everyone. I will now give _my_ rankings:

Bach - 10
Mozart - 9
Beethoven - 8
Ravel - 7
Schumann - 6
Messiaen - 5
Mendelssohn - 4
Haydn - 3
Prokofiev - 2
Schoenberg - 1

The -3 goes to Liszt.

Here are our present point standings:

1. *Ludwig van Beethoven* - *40*
2. Johann Sebastian Bach - 37
3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - 36
4. Franz Schubert - 24
5. Johannes Brahms - 21
6. Franz Joseph Haydn - 15
7. Gustav Mahler - 12
8. Anton Bruckner - 10
9. Sergei Rachmaninov - 8
9. Claude Debussy - 8
11. Béla Bartók - 7
11. Antonín Dvořák - 7
11. Felix Mendelssohn - 7
11. Maurice Ravel - 7
15. Robert Schumann - 6
16. Olivier Messiaen - 5
17. Krzysztof Penderecki - 4
17. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - 4
17. Richard Wagner - 4
20. Robert Simpson - 3
20. Igor Stravinsky - 3
22. Sergei Prokofiev - 2
23. Arnold Schoenberg - 1
23. Dmitri Shostakovich - 1
25. Franz Liszt - -3
25. Johann Schobert - -3


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## StlukesguildOhio

1. J.S. Bach- 10
2. W.A. Mozart- 9
3. Beethoven- 8
4. Wagner- 7
5. Handel- 6
6. Schubert- 5
7. Haydn- 4
8. Richard Strauss- 3
9. Brahms- 2
10. Mahler- 1


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## Toddlertoddy

10 Stravinsky
9 Shostakovich
8 Bartok
7 Schoenberg
6 Ravel
5 Dvorak
4 Debussy
3 Tchaikovsky
2 Beethoven
1 Prokofiev

-3 Haydn


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## peeyaj

However, I wouldn't mind continuing with mine anyways, especially because I like the "disliked composer" option (and I am hoping that Schubert will not show up so highly-ranked on this one).

What an odd and ridiculous reason to create the list. If you really don't like the composer, just eliminate him in your ranking all together. Schubert is consistently in the top 5 of TC rankings and any complaining regarding his position won't change that.

I'll bite.

Schubert (10)

Bach 9

Mozart 8

Beethoven 7

Tchaikovsky 6

Brahms 5

Berlioz 4

Grieg 3

Handel 2

Wagner 1


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## PetrB

Of course it will be all 'the usual suspects.'

Bah.


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## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10
Elgar - 9
Arnold, Malcom - 8
Barber - 7
Brahms - 6
Schumann - 5
Monteverdi - 4
Haydn - 3
Shostakovich - 2
Prokofiev -1

Not *all* the usual suspects


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## science

PetrB said:


> Of course it will be all 'the usual suspects.'
> 
> Bah.


You'll have to tolerate we mere mortals chattering among ourselves. Ignore us while you converse with your fellow deities.


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## Vesteralen

I think a lot of people will not read the OPs definition and will automatically assume he was asking for a list of "the greatest" composers. I wouldn't for a minute try to defend my list above as a list of "the greatest", but I'm a TC member, and the composers I listed are the ones I would turn to right now if I had a choice to listen to anything available.


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## Trout

Beethoven - 10
Bach, J.S. - 9
Schubert - 8
Stravinsky - 7
Strauss, Richard - 6
Mahler - 5
Dvorak - 4
Brahms - 3
Vaughan Williams - 2
Josquin - 1


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## science

Vesteralen said:


> I think a lot of people will not read the OPs definition and will automatically assume he was asking for a list of "the greatest" composers. I wouldn't for a minute try to defend my list above as a list of "the greatest", but I'm a TC member, and the composers I listed are the ones I would turn to right now if I had a choice to listen to anything available.


I can't find the definition you're referring to. What was it?


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## Turangalîla

peeyaj said:


> What an odd and ridiculous reason to create the list. If you really don't like the composer, just eliminate him in your ranking all together. Schubert is consistently in the top 5 of TC rankings and any complaining regarding his position won't change that.


I was certainly not being serious! That was *not* my reason for creating the list! The smiley face after the comment should have told you that!

To answer other people's questions, you can pick _either_ the *greatest* or *your favourite* composers, or a mixture.


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## Conor71

J.S Bach 10
Shostakovich 9
Sibelius 8
Mendelssohn 7
Schubert 6
Tchiakovsky 5
Mozart 4
Beethoven 3
Bruckner 2
Brahms 1

Ives -3


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## trazom

10- WA Mozart
9- JS Bach
8- Schubert
7- Brahms
6- Schumann
5- Mendelssohn
4- Haydn
3- Prokofiev
2- Tchaikovsky
1- Richard Strauss


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## tdc

10 - J.S. Bach
9 - Ravel
8 - Debussy
7 - W.A. Mozart
6 - Beethoven
5 - Bartok
4 - Schubert
3 - Wagner
2 - Monteverdi
1 - Mendelssohn


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## Turangalîla

trazom said:


> 1- Strauss


Richard Strauss or Johann Strauss II (hoping it's not the latter )?


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## trazom

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Richard Strauss or Johann Strauss II (hoping it's not the latter )?


Oh, oops! Just edited it, thank you; and yes, it was Richard Strauss.


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## Turangalîla

Vesteralen said:


> Nielsen - 10


Carl Nielsen or Ludolf Nielsen?

First names for lesser-known composers please


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## Turangalîla

Here's the updated tally:

1. *Johann Sebastian Bach* - *94*

2. Ludwig van Beethoven - 76

3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - 74

4. Franz Schubert - 65

5. Johannes Brahms - 45

6. Franz Joseph Haydn - 23

7. Maurice Ravel - 22

8. Dmitri Shostakovich - 21

9. Igor Stravinsky - 20
9. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - 20
9. Claude Debussy - 20
9. Béla Bartók - 20
9. Felix Mendelssohn - 20

14. Gustav Mahler - 18

15. Robert Schumann - 17

16. Antonín Dvořák - 16

17. Richard Wagner - 15

18. Anton Bruckner - 12

19. Richard Strauss - 10
19. Carl Nielsen - 10

21. Edward Elgar - 9

22. George Frideric Handel - 8
22. Sergei Rachmaninov - 8
22. Malcolm Arnold - 8
22. Jean Sibelius - 8
22. Arnold Schoenberg - 8

27. Samuel Barber - 7
27. Sergei Prokofiev - 7

29. Claudio Monteverdi - 6

30. Olivier Messiaen - 5

31. Krzysztof Penderecki - 4
31. Hector Berlioz - 4

33. Robert Simpson - 3
33. Edvard Grieg - 3

35. Ralph Vaughan Williams - 2

36. Josquin des Prez - 1

37. Franz Liszt - -3
37. Johann Schobert - -3
37. Charles Ives - -3


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## Couchie

Wagner: 10 points

Bach: -3 points


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## science

Does this mean we are allowed to vote again?


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## Turangalîla

science said:


> Does this mean we are allowed to vote again?


Yes you may, but there is a limit of one vote per day.

Now that the general consensus has been established, I will now begin to vote more "strategically". I encourage others to do the same. My favourites are Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, but since they are easily the top three winners, I am going to give my ten- and nine-point slots to lesser-popular composers that I really love, such as Messiaen, Schoenberg, etc.
If you vote strategically, it becomes a bit of a game to see whose favourite composers can be ranked highest!


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## Turangalîla

Couchie said:


> Wagner: 10 points
> 
> Bach: -3 points


I hate you, but I'll count the votes.


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## science

Well then, here we go: 

10 - Brahms 
9 - Gombert 
8 - Gesualdo 
7 - Beethoven 
6 - Bach
5 - Mozart 
4 - Schubert 
3 - Monteverdi 
2 - Tallis
1 - Vaughan Williams
-3 - Schobert


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## cwarchc

I'm not sure I'm qualified to vote, due to lack of experience?
However these are the ones I like.

1 - Elgar
2 - Shoskatovich
3 - Holst
4 - Mahler
5 - Prokofiev
6 - J S Bach
7 - Handel
8 - Rachmaninov
9 - Tchaikovsky
10 - Smetna


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## StevenOBrien

10 - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
9 - Frederic Chopin
8 - Ludwig van Beethoven
7 - J.S. Bach
6 - Georg Frideric Handel
5 - Felix Mendelssohn
4 - Franz Schubert
3 - Igor Stravinsky
2 - Pytor Ilyich Tchaikovsky
1 - Richard Wagner

-3 Johannes Brahms


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## Art Rock

10 JS Bach 
9 G Mahler
8 J Brahms
7 F Schubert
6 D Shostakovich
5 A Dvorak
4 T Takemitsu
3 S Barber
2 J Sibelius
1 S Gubaidulina

-3 GF Handel


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## emiellucifuge

10 wagner
9 dvorak
6 bruckner
5 stockhausen
4 boulez
3 palestrina


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## Cygnenoir

10 - Mahler
9 - Ligeti
8 - Debussy
7 - Stravinsky
6 - Prokofiev
5 - Grieg
4 - Wagner
3 - Beethoven
2 - Mozart
1 - Messiaen


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## Vesteralen

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Carl Nielsen or Ludolf Nielsen?
> 
> First names for lesser-known composers please


Sorry, I didn't think Carl was that obscure, and I never realized there was a Ludolf. Carl, of course. Kind of like saying "Which Mendelssohn - Felix or Fanny?"


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## Vesteralen

science said:


> I can't find the definition you're referring to. What was it?


Sorry, I was just trying to save time there. What I meant was that a lot of people would just read the title of the thread and assume what it meant without actually reading the rather extensive original post to see what was intended.


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## EarthBoundRules

10 - Berlioz
9 - Sibelius
8 - Schumann
7 - Bruckner
6 - Haydn
5 - Shostakovich
4 - Tchaikovsky
3 - Mahler
2 - Wagner
1 - Chopin

-3 - Stravinsky


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## StlukesguildOhio

-3 for Handel? Are you mad? He's already far too low in the standings.

1. Handel- 10

Wagner is also far too low.

2. Richard Wagner- 9

3. J.S. Bach- 8
4. Richard Strauss- 7
5. W.A. Mozart- 6
6. Debussy- 5
7. Haydn- 4
8. Schubert- 3
9. Beethoven- 2
10. Monteverdi- 1

Stravinsky -3


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## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Wagner - 7
Handel - 6
Brahms - 5
Schubert - 4
Dvorak - 3
Mendelssohn - 2
Haydn - 1

Shostakovich -3


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## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Chopin: 9
Ligeti: -3


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## Klavierspieler

R. Schumann - 10
L. v. Beethoven - 9
F. Chopin - 8
Janacek - 7
JS Bach - 6
Britten - 5
Shostakovich - 4
Elgar - 3
Byrd - 2
Machaut - 1

-3 Wagner


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## Turangalîla

Vesteralen said:


> Sorry, I didn't think Carl was that obscure, and I never realized there was a Ludolf. Carl, of course. Kind of like saying "Which Mendelssohn - Felix or Fanny?"


Thank you, I was just comfirming that it was Carl-I put his name on the tally last night and was making sure that I didn't need to change it.


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## Trout

Liszt - 10
Verdi - 9
Vivaldi - 8
Palestrina - 7
Berlioz - 6
Monteverdi - 5
Ives - 4
Vaughan Williams - 3
Mussorgsky - 2
Puccini - 1

-3 Arnold


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## Turangalîla

cwarchc said:


> I'm not sure I'm qualified to vote, due to lack of experience?
> However these are the ones I like.
> 
> 1 - Elgar
> 2 - Shoskatovich
> 3 - Holst
> 4 - Mahler
> 5 - Prokofiev
> 6 - J S Bach
> 7 - Handel
> 8 - Rachmaninov
> 9 - Tchaikovsky
> 10 - Smetna


I am assuming that Elgar gets ten points and Smetana one??? If it is the other way around, please let me know!


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## EarthBoundRules

StevenOBrien said:


> 10 - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> 9 - Frederic Chopin
> 8 - Ludwig van Beethoven
> 7 - J.S. Bach
> 8 - Georg Frideric Handel
> 7 - Felix Mendelssohn
> 6 - Franz Schubert
> 5 - Igor Stravinsky
> 4 - Pytor Ilyich Tchaikovsky
> 3 - Richard Wagner
> 2 - Philip Glass
> 1 - Claude Debussy
> 
> -3 Johannes Brahms


Looks like you have two 8's and 7's. A mistake perhaps?


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## pjang23

10 - Haydn
9 - Dvorak
8 - Schubert
7 - Brahms
6 - Mozart
5 - Verdi
4 - Stravinsky
3 - Prokofiev
2 - Debussy
1 - Mendelssohn


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## StevenOBrien

EarthBoundRules said:


> Looks like you have two 8's and 7's. A mistake perhaps?


Argh, sorry. Fixed.


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## Turangalîla

My vote for the day (I am beginning to vote for the composers that I think are too far down on the list, not always my very favourites):

Messiaen - 10
Ravel - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Chopin - 7
Schumann - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Schoenberg - 4
Haydn - 3
Handel - 2
Prokofiev - 1

The -3 goes to Shostakovich.

Current tally (this is based on my assumption about cwarchc's point system, which I would like confirmed):

1. *Johann Sebastian Bach* - *141*

2. Ludwig van Beethoven - 116

3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - 113

4. Franz Schubert - 95

5. Johannes Brahms - 72

6. Richard Wagner - 55

7. Franz Joseph Haydn - 47
7. Gustav Mahler - 47

9. Antonín Dvořák - 42

10. Robert Schumann - 41

11. Dmitri Shostakovich - 39

12. Claude Debussy - 35

13. Frédéric Chopin - 34

14. Felix Mendelssohn - 33
14. George Frideric Handel - 33

16. Maurice Ravel - 31

17. Igor Stravinsky - 28
17. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - 28

19. Anton Bruckner - 25

20. Sergei Prokofiev - 23

21. Edward Elgar - 22

22. Béla Bartók - 20
22. Hector Berlioz - 20

24. Jean Sibelius - 19

25. Richard Strauss - 17

26. Olivier Messiaen - 16

27. Claudio Monteverdi - 15

28. Guiseppe Verdi - 14

29. Arnold Schoenberg - 12

30. Sergei Rachmaninoff - 11

31. Modest Mussorgsky - 10
31. Samuel Barber - 10
31. Carl Nielsen - 10
31. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - 10
31. Alexander Scriabin - 10

36. Nicolas Gombert - 9

37. Antonio Vivaldi - 8
37. Carlo Gesualdo - 8
37. Edvard Grieg - 8

40. Leoš Janáček - 7
40. Franz Liszt - 7

42. György Ligeti - 6
42. Ralph Vaughan Williams - 6

44. Malcolm Arnold - 5
44. Benjamin Britten - 5
44. Karlheinz Stockhausen - 5

47. Pierre Boulez - 4
47. Toru Takemitsu - 4
47. Krzysztof Penderecki - 4

50. Gustav Holst - 3
50. Robert Simpson - 3

52. William Byrd - 2
52. Thomas Tallis - 2

54. Bedřich Smetana - 1
54. Giacomo Puccini - 1
54. Guillame de Machaut - 1
54. Josquin des Prez - 1
54. Sofia Gubaidulina - 1
54. Charles Ives - 1

60. Johann Schobert - -6


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## science

Ok then, here we go again!

10 - Brahms 
9 - Shostakovich 
8 - Liszt 
7 - Janacek
6 - Golijov 
5 - Dvorak 
4 - Stravinsky 
3 - Vivaldi 
2 - Takemitsu 
1 - Machaut 
-3 - Schobert


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## Klavierspieler

R. Schumann - 10
Janacek - 9
F. Chopin - 8
Bartok - 7
Britten - 6
Stravinsky - 5
Shostakovich - 4
Elgar - 3
Byrd - 2
Machaut - 1

-3 Wagner


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## SeanWolferl

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - 10
Franz Joseph Haydn - 9


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## StlukesguildOhio

And again:

1. Richard Strauss- 10
2. G.F. Handel- 9
3. Richard Wagner- 8
4. J.S. Bach- 7
5. Carlo Gesualdo- 6
6. W.A. Mozart- 5
7. Antonio Vivaldi- 4
8. Giuseppe Verdi- 3
9. Faure- 2
10. Debussy- 1

Brahms -3


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## Couchie

Wagner: 10
Brahms: -3


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## Conor71

1. Chopin: 10
2. Bach: 9
3. Shostakovich: 8
4. Sibelius: 7
5. Mendelssohn: 6
6. Tchaikovsky: 5
7. Schubert: 4
8. Villa-Lobos: 3
9. Ravel: 2
10. Mozart: 1

Schobert: -3


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## MaestroViolinist

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Sibelius - 7
Handel - 6
Brahms - 5
Tchaikovsky - 4
Dvorak - 3
Mendelssohn - 2
Haydn - 1

Shostakovich -3


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## vamos

very difficult. so I'll just do it "my way."

10 - Ravel
9 - Scriabin
8 - Messiaen
7 - Shnittke
6 - Schoenberg
5 - Prokofiev
4 - Xenakis
3 - Schubert
2 - Mozart
1 - Ligeti

-3 for Bach


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## StevenOBrien

10 - Chopin
9 - Mozart
8 - Purcell
7 - Scarlatti
6 - Bizet
5 - Tchaikovsky
4 - Rossini
3 - Handel
2 - Saint-Saens
1 - Poulenc

-3 - Dvorak


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## emiellucifuge

Wagner 10
debussy 9
Liszt 8
Rachmaninoff 7


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## MadsKlinge

Okay here's mine.

10. Paganini
9. Vivaldi
8. Chopin
7. Mozart
6. Wohlfahrt
5. Nielsen
4. Grieg
3. Rachmaninov
2. Debussy
1. Monti


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## Vesteralen

Today's list:

Nielsen, C - 10
Elgar, E - 9
Barber, S - 8
Brahms, J - 7
Arnold, M - 6
Haydn, F J - 5
Schumann, R - 4
Vaughan Williams, R - 3
Prokofiev, S - 2
Mendelssohn, Felix - 1


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## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Liszt: 9
Rachmaninoff: 8
Chopin: 7

Stockhausen: -3


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## crmoorhead

A list of my favourites based on the music I am most familiar with.

10. Bach, JS
9. Beethoven
8. Mahler
7. Verdi
6. Bartok
5. Tchaikovsky
4. Liszt
3. Sibelius
2. Wagner
1. Barber


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## Trout

Beethoven - 10
Bach - 9
Josquin - 8
Scarlatti, Domenico - 7
Liszt - 6
Strauss, Richard - 5
Webern - 4
Berg - 3
Rameau - 2
Varese - 1

-3 Schumann


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## Webernite

Schobert - 10


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## Muddy

J. S. Bach-10
Mozart-9
Beethoven-8
Schubert-7
Haydn-6
Mahler-5
Brahms-4
Chopin-3
Bruckner-2
Schumann-1


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## pjang23

10 - Haydn
9 - Brahms
8 - Strauss
7 - Prokofiev
6 - Mahler
5 - Stravinsky
4 - Debussy
3 - Verdi
2 - Barber
1 - Sibelius
-3 - Chopin


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## science

Webernite said:


> Schobert - 10


What are you doing?

You've taken a guy that needs a heck of a lot more attention, and moved him from where he could get it back into the miscellaneous masses where he will be overlooked for, evidently, eternity. Was that your intention?


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## Couchie

Richard Wagner: 10
Siegfried Wagner: 9
Mahler: -3


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## tdc

10 - J.S. Bach
9 - Ravel
8 - Schnittke
7 - Villa-Lobos
6 - Rodrigo
5 - Debussy
4 - Wagner
3 - Biber
2 - Purcell
1 - Monteverdi


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## EarthBoundRules

10 - Sibelius
9 - Berlioz
8 - Tchaikovsky
7 - Saint-Saëns
6 - Mahler
5 - Schubert
4 - Haydn
3 - Schumann
2 - Prokofiev
1 - Elgar

-3 - Vivaldi


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## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Wagner - 7
Handel - 6
Brahms - 5
Schubert - 4
Dvorak - 3
Mendelssohn - 2
Haydn - 1

Shostakovich -3


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## Arsakes

Dvorak - 10
Brahms - 9
Sibelius - 8
Haydn - 7
Wagner - 6
Beethoven - 5
Liszt - 4
Schumann - 3
Rachmaninov - 2
Saint Säens - 1

-3 - Chopin


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## Lisztian

Might as well, but I do feel uncomfortable doing these things when I still have SO much to explore.

But, at this point...

10 - Liszt.
9 - Beethoven.
8 - Chopin.
7 - Rachmaninoff.
6 - Debussy.
5 - Schumann.
4 - Schubert.
3 - Brahms.
2 - Berlioz.
1 - Scriabin.

There are no composers I dislike.


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## Moira

1. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
2. Ludwig van Beethoven 
3. Johann Sebastian Bach 
4. Johannes Brahms 
5. Sergei Rachmaninov 
6. Claude Debussy 
7. Antonín Dvořák
8. Maurice Ravel
9. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky 
10. Igor Stravinsky


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## Vesteralen

Today's list:

10 pts - Hadyn, F J
9 pts - Mendelssohn, Felix
8 pts - Nielsen, Carl
7 pts - Vaughan Williams, Ralph
6 pts - Brahms, Johannes
5 pts - Schumann, RObert
4 pts - Arnold, Sir Malcom
3 pts - G. de Machaut
2 pts - Bruckner, A
1 pt - Prokofiev, S


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Handel: 9
Chopin: 8

Ligeti: -3


----------



## Webernite

science said:


> What are you doing?
> 
> You've taken a guy that needs a heck of a lot more attention, and moved him from where he could get it back into the miscellaneous masses where he will be overlooked for, evidently, eternity. Was that your intention?




(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Shostakovich
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Tallis
4 - Machaut
3 - Stravinsky
2 - Gesualdo
1 - Sibelius


----------



## PlaySalieri

How people can exclude Mozart from the top 10 baffles me. But anyway:

10 - Mozart
9 - Beethoven
8 - JS Bach
7 - Schubert
6 - Brahms
5 - Tchaikovsky
4 - Dvorak
3 - Mendelssohn
2 - Shostakovich
1 - Haydn

I have a strong conviction about my top 6 - after that I'm not that bothered but I found some choices anyway.
I put Mozart ahead of Beethoven as I believe he has more major masterworks - he has 6 great operas - Beethoven has one. They are equal in symphonies - Mozart is far ahead in concertos - way ahead of anyone - in chamber music they are equal - maybe Beethoven edges it in piano sonatas. In church music equal. Mozart wrote a ton of serenades/divertimenti so he scores heavily there - a lot of it is great (eg K563/k320). He also lived 20 years less - and I thnk that should be factored into these polls as he achieved more in less time.


----------



## emiellucifuge

stomanek said:


> How people can exclude Mozart from the top 10 baffles me. But anyway:
> 
> 10 - Mozart
> 9 - Beethoven
> 8 - JS Bach
> 7 - Schubert
> 6 - Brahms
> 5 - Tchaikovsky
> 4 - Dvorak
> 3 - Mendelssohn
> 2 - Shostakovich
> 1 - Haydn


How anyone can exclude Wagner from the top 10 baffles _me! _So where does that leave us..?


----------



## pjang23

10 - Strauss
9 - Stravinsky
8 - Dvorak
7 - Debussy
6 - Haydn
5 - Mahler
4 - Prokofiev
3 - Faure
2 - Schubert
1 - Verdi
-3 - Chopin


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Wagner - 7
Handel - 6
Brahms - 5
Schubert - 4
Dvorak - 3
Mendelssohn - 2
Haydn - 1

Shostakovich -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

stomanek said:


> How people can exclude Mozart from the top 10 baffles me. But anyway:
> 
> 10 - Mozart
> 9 - Beethoven
> 8 - JS Bach
> 7 - Schubert
> 6 - Brahms
> 5 - Tchaikovsky
> 4 - Dvorak
> 3 - Mendelssohn
> 2 - Shostakovich
> 1 - Haydn


How people can exclude Schumann from the top 10 baffles me. Next!


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10-J.S. Bach 
9-W. A. Mozart
8-Dvorak 
7-Brahms 
6-Haydn 
5-Schubert
4-Chopin
3-Liszt
2-Beethoven
1-Handel 

Schumann -3


----------



## EarthBoundRules

10 - Sibelius
9 - Berlioz
8 - Tchaikovsky
7 - Saint-Saëns
6 - Mahler
5 - Schubert
4 - Haydn
3 - Schumann
2 - Prokofiev
1 - Elgar

-3 - Vivaldi


----------



## Trout

Stravinsky - 10
Copland - 9
Hindemith - 8
Verdi - 7
Bartok - 6
Vaughan Williams - 5
Schoenberg - 4
Ligeti - 3
Webern - 2
Josquin - 1

Arnold -3


----------



## Trout

Score update- the top 50:

1.	Bach	-	243
2.	Mozart	-	215
3.	Beethoven	-	204
4.	Brahms	-	149
5.	Schubert	-	145
6.	Wagner	-	119
7.	Haydn	-	108
8.	Chopin	-	97
9.	Dvorak	-	87
10.	Mahler	-	80
11.	Debussy	-	74
12.	Handel	-	73
13.	Schumann	-	72
14.	Tchaikovsky	-	70
15.	Sibelius	-	65
16.	Stravinsky	-	62
17.	Liszt	-	59
18.	Mendelssohn	-	58
19.	Shostakovich	-	56
20.	Ravel	-	55
21.	Strauss	-	50
22.	Prokofiev	-	46
23.	Rachmaninoff	-	44
24.	Scriabin	-	40
24.	Berlioz	-	40
26.	Bartok	-	39
27.	Elgar	-	36
28.	Verdi	-	35
29.	Nielsen	-	33
30.	Bruckner	-	29
31.	Messiaen	-	24
32.	Janacek	-	23
33.	Schoenberg	-	22
34.	Vivaldi	-	21
34.	Barber	-	21
34.	Vaughan Williams	-	21
37.	Saint-Saens	-	17
38.	Monteverdi	-	16
39.	Schnittke	-	15
40.	Gesualdo	-	14
40.	Scarlatti	-	14
42.	Arnold	-	12
42.	Grieg	-	12
44.	Britten	-	11
45.	Mussorgsky	-	10
45.	Palestrina	-	10
45.	Paganini	-	10
45.	Purcell	-	10
45.	Villa-Lobos	-	10
45.	Josquin	-	10


----------



## Turangalîla

Trout said:


> Score update- the top 50:
> 
> 1.	Bach	-	243
> 2.	Mozart	-	215
> 3.	Beethoven	-	204
> 4.	Brahms	-	149
> 5.	Schubert	-	145
> 6.	Wagner	-	119
> 7.	Haydn	-	108
> 8.	Chopin	-	97
> 9.	Dvorak	-	87
> 10.	Mahler	-	80
> 11.	Debussy	-	74
> 12.	Handel	-	73
> 13.	Schumann	-	72
> 14.	Tchaikovsky	-	70
> 15.	Sibelius	-	65
> 16.	Stravinsky	-	62
> 17.	Liszt	-	59
> 18.	Mendelssohn	-	58
> 19.	Shostakovich	-	56
> 20.	Ravel	-	55
> 21.	Strauss	-	50
> 22.	Prokofiev	-	46
> 23.	Rachmaninoff	-	44
> 24.	Scriabin	-	40
> 24.	Berlioz	-	40
> 26.	Bartok	-	39
> 27.	Elgar	-	36
> 28.	Verdi	-	35
> 29.	Nielsen	-	33
> 30.	Bruckner	-	29
> 31.	Messiaen	-	24
> 32.	Janacek	-	23
> 33.	Schoenberg	-	22
> 34.	Vivaldi	-	21
> 34.	Barber	-	21
> 34.	Vaughan Williams	-	21
> 37.	Saint-Saens	-	17
> 38.	Monteverdi	-	16
> 39.	Schnittke	-	15
> 40.	Gesualdo	-	14
> 40.	Scarlatti	-	14
> 42.	Arnold	-	12
> 42.	Grieg	-	12
> 44.	Britten	-	11
> 45.	Mussorgsky	-	10
> 45.	Palestrina	-	10
> 45.	Paganini	-	10
> 45.	Purcell	-	10
> 45.	Villa-Lobos	-	10
> 45.	Josquin	-	10


THANK YOU TROUT! I have been immensely busy and was planning on doing it tomorrow; you are my new favourite person


----------



## science

Seems to me the list should be longer than 50.


----------



## mmsbls

Unless it's too much of a pain to update the list past 50, I'd like that as well.


----------



## tdc

10 - Ravel 
9 - Debussy
8 - Mendelssohn
7 - Bartok
6 - Bruckner
5 - J.S. Bach
4 - Ives
3 - Webern
2 - Berg
1 - D. Scarlatti


----------



## Air

Prokofiev - 10
Handel - 9
Schumann - 8
Messiaen - 7
Ligeti - 6
Strauss - 5
Palestrina - 4
Villa-Lobos - 3
Bartok - 2
Monteverdi - 1

-3 for Rachmaninoff


----------



## Trout

Sorry, here is the full list (as of Air's vote):

1.	Bach	-	248
2.	Mozart	-	215
3.	Beethoven	-	204
4.	Brahms	-	149
5.	Schubert	-	145
6.	Wagner	-	119
7.	Haydn	-	108
8.	Chopin	-	97
9.	Dvořák	-	87
10.	Debussy	-	83
11.	Handel	-	82
12.	Mahler	-	80
12.	Schumann	-	80
14.	Tchaikovsky	-	70
15.	Mendelssohn	-	66
16.	Sibelius	-	65
16.	Ravel	-	65
18.	Stravinsky	-	62
19.	Liszt	-	59
20.	Shostakovich	-	56
20.	Prokofiev	-	56
22.	Strauss	-	55
23.	Bartók	-	48
24.	Rachmaninoff	-	41
25.	Scriabin	-	40
25.	Berlioz	-	40
27.	Elgar	-	36
28.	Verdi	-	35
28.	Bruckner	-	35
30.	Nielsen	-	33
31.	Messiaen	-	31
32.	Janáček	-	23
33.	Schoenberg	-	22
34.	Vivaldi	-	21
34.	Barber	-	21
34.	Vaughan Williams	-	21
37.	Saint-Saëns	-	17
37.	Monteverdi	-	17
39.	Schnittke	-	15
39.	Arnold	-	15
39.	Scarlatti	-	15
42.	Gesualdo	-	14
42.	Palestrina	-	14
44.	Villa-Lobos	-	13
44.	Ligeti	-	13
46.	Grieg	-	12
47.	Britten	-	11
48.	Mussorgsky	-	10
48.	Paganini	-	10
48.	Purcell	-	10
48.	Josquin	-	10
52.	Gombert	-	9
52.	Wagner, Siegfried	-	9
52.	Copland	-	9
52.	Webern	-	9
56.	Hindemith	-	8
57.	Golijov	-	6
57.	Takemitsu	-	6
57.	Bizet	-	6
57.	Wohlfahrt	-	6
57.	Rodrigo	-	6
57.	Machaut	-	6
63.	Fauré	-	5
63.	Berg	-	5
63.	Ives	-	5
66.	Boulez	-	4
66.	Penderecki	-	4
66.	Byrd	-	4
66.	Xenakis	-	4
66.	Rossini	-	4
71.	Holst	-	3
71.	Simpson	-	3
71.	Biber	-	3
74.	Stockhausen	-	2
74.	Tallis	-	2
74.	Rameau	-	2
77.	Smetana	-	1
77.	Puccini	-	1
77.	Gubaidulina	-	1
77.	Poulenc	-	1
77.	Monti	-	1
77.	Varèse	-	1
83.	Schobert	-	(-2)


----------



## vamos

today

10 - bartok
9 - schumann
8 - varese


----------



## Lisztian

10 - Liszt.
9 - Beethoven.
8 - MacDowell.
7 - Rachmaninoff.
6 - Berlioz. 
5 - Wagner.
4 - Scriabin.
3 - Debussy.
2 - Grieg.
1 - Ligeti.


----------



## science

Ok, I'll go again!

10 - Schubert
9 - Stravinsky
8 - Faure 
7 - Ives
6 - Brahms 
5 - Stockhausen
4 - Biber
3 - Tallis
2 - Machaut
1 - Varese
-3 - Schobert


----------



## Turangalîla

Am I allowed to submit my vote from Monday, which I didn't have time to do?
Well, since I _started_ the thread, I have decided that the answer is yes 

Messiaen - 10
Ravel - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schumann - 7
Chopin - 6
Haydn - 5
Schoenberg - 4
Palestrina - 3
Webern - 2
Berg - 1

Debussy -3 (He's higher up than Ravel-this is _not_ allowed!)

Oh, and what idiot voted the likes of Siegfried Wagner above Puccini? What is this world coming to?


----------



## Arsakes

Dvořák - 10
Sibelius - 9
Smetana - 8
Mussorgsky - 7
Grieg - 6
Saint-Saëns - 5
Rachmaninoff - 4
Handel - 3
Haydn - 2
Wagner - 1


----------



## emiellucifuge

Wagner 10
schubert -3
Berg 9
Ives 8
Puccinni 7


----------



## PlaySalieri

Klavierspieler said:


> How people can exclude Schumann from the top 10 baffles me. Next!


It doesn't baffle me. He wrote 4 average symphonies - some reasonable chamber music and solo piano - one very good piano concerto and one excellent piano quintet. 
Mozart wrote 6 great operas - 6 great symphonies - 10 great quartets - another at least 10 great pieces of chamber music -a legendary reqiuem and c minor mass etc etc - shall I go on? Even if I hated Mozart - I would still include him in the top 5 based on his achievements.
Of course people simply put down their top 10 favourites which is wrong as the list if for greatest composers and not an opportunity to show off the fact that you listen to obscure avant garde. I have also seen Beethoven excluded which is equally ridiculous and really devalues the integrity of the list. I tried to compile mine based on recognised musical achievement in the world of classical music.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Puccini
9 - Rossini
8 - Prokofiev
7 - Handel
6 - Mozart
5 - Chopin
4 - Mendelssohn
3 - Stravinsky
2 - Rimsky-Korsakov
1 - Poulenc

-3 Dvorak


----------



## PlaySalieri

Just realised I left Sibelius out of my top 10 - he goes just ahead of Brahms.


----------



## PlaySalieri

Interesting and comforting to see - that despite individual preferences and oddball omissions of major composers from some people's lists - the big 5 occupying the top 5 positions.

BTW I take it back about Schuman's symphonies being average - no 3 is excellent and 1, 4 are nearly as good.


----------



## StevenOBrien

stomanek said:


> Just realised I left Sibelius out of my top 10 - he goes just ahead of Brahms.


You can vote once a day. Vote again!


----------



## PlaySalieri

Don't temp me - having discovered this forum I could spend hours a day here if only I had the time to trade views etc.


----------



## Kieran

10. Mozart
9. Schubert
8. Haydn
7. JS Bach
6. Beethoven
5. Wagner
4. Chopin
3. Brahms
2. Monteverdi
1. Verdi


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List

10 pts - Brahms, J
9 pts - Nielsen, C
8 pts - Haydn, FJ
7 pts - Schumann, R
6 pts - Elgar, E
5 pts - Mendelssohn, Felix
4 pts - Vaughan Williams, R
3 pts - Arnold, Sir Malcom
2 pts - Alfven, H
1 pts - Alwyn, W


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Shostakovich
4 - Hindemith
3 - Machaut
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo


----------



## peeyaj

Schubert - 10

Mozart - 9

Grieg - 8

Bach - 7

Schumann - 6

Tchaikovsky - 5

Handel - 4

Beethoven - 3

Haydn - 2

Wagner - 1

- 3 Brahms


----------



## Arsakes

stomanek said:


> Interesting and comforting to see - that despite individual preferences and oddball omissions of major composers from some people's lists - the big 5 occupying the top 5 positions.
> 
> BTW I take it back about Schuman's symphonies being average - no 3 is excellent and 1, 4 are nearly as good.


Well, if we wanted to praise the best we should write the same list over and over again.

We try to keep the worthy ones in a appropriate place on the main list, so our lists change for this purpose.


----------



## Vesteralen

stomanek said:


> Interesting and comforting to see - that despite individual preferences and *oddball omissions of major composers from some people's lists *- the big 5 occupying the top 5 positions.
> 
> BTW I take it back about Schuman's symphonies being average - no 3 is excellent and 1, 4 are nearly as good.


If I read the thread title -"Greatest" composers- only, then it doesn't make sense, for example, to leave Bach or Beethoven out of my list. But, when I read the OP, it seemed clear that the list is really about who I *like*, not really about who's the greatest.

In all honesty, I have no problem with Bach and Beethoven being greater composers than the ones on my lists, but I'm answering the question based on who I like to listen to more.


----------



## Turangalîla

Klavierspieler said:


> 10 - R. Schumann
> 9 - L. Janacek
> 8 - Beethoven
> 7 - Bartok
> 6 - Britten
> 5 - Shostakovich
> 4 - Hindemith
> 3 - Machaut
> 2 - Stravinsky
> 1 - Gesualdo


Thank you Klavierspieler. I can always count on you to help put Schumann closer to where he deserves to be (the top five)!

Here's Tuesday's vote 

Ravel - 10
Schumann - 9
Messiaen - 8
Mussorgsky - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Chopin - 5
Mendelssohn - 4
Berg - 3
Webern - 2
Haydn - 1

-3 goes to Debussy (again).

Just to let you all know, I am leaving right now and will not be back until tomorrow, when I can update the list. If anyone would like to do it _before_ tomorrow, that would be GREAT, but if no one does, that's fine, you will all just have to wait till then


----------



## PlaySalieri

Vesteralen said:


> If I read the thread title -"Greatest" composers- only, then it doesn't make sense, for example, to leave Bach or Beethoven out of my list. But, when I read the OP, it seemed clear that the list is really about who I *like*, not really about who's the greatest.
> 
> In all honesty, I have no problem with Bach and Beethoven being greater composers than the ones on my lists, but I'm answering the question based on who I like to listen to more.


It's probably best to do it that way anyway.


----------



## pjang23

stomanek said:


> It's probably best to do it that way anyway.


Voting is based on who you think is too low on the current list compared to your own list of greats.

10 Strauss
9 Haydn
8 Stravinsky
7 Debussy
6 Dvorak
5 Handel
4 Mahler
3 Monteverdi
2 Palestrina
1 Prokofiev
-3 Chopin


----------



## Cygnenoir

10 - Beethoven
9 - Mahler
8 - Ligeti
7 - Reich
6 - Penderecki
5 - Messiaen
4 - Debussy
3 - Wagner
2 - Prokofiev
1 - Stravinsky

-3 - Schubert


----------



## trazom

10-Mozart
9-Schumann
8-Brahms
7-Schubert
6-Tchaikovsky

-3-Haydn


----------



## Couchie

Richard Wagner: 10
Siegfried Wagner: 9

Schubert: -3


----------



## Trout

Rameau - 10
Josquin - 9
Vaughan Williams - 8
Webern - 7
Rossini - 6
Verdi - 5
Monteverdi - 4
Shostakovich - 3
Strauss - 2
Prokofiev - 1

Siegfried Wagner -3


----------



## Muddy

Schubert-10


----------



## tdc

Ravel - 10
J.S. Bach - 9
Schubert - 8
Debussy - 7
Bartok - 6
Schnittke - 5
Mendelssohn - 4
Monteverdi - 3
Wagner - 2
Ives - 1


----------



## PlaySalieri

Oliver Rudland - 10


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's list:

10 pts - Dvorak, A
9 pts -- Harbison, J
8 pts -- Arnold, Sir Malcom
7 pts -- Nielsen, C
6 pts - Schumann, R
5 pts - Spohr, L
4 pts - Barber, S
3 pts - Liefs, Jon
2 pts - Tower, Joan
1 pt - Elgar, E


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Mozart
9 - Chopin
8 - Schubert
7 - Beethoven
6 - Ravel
5 - Debussy
4 - Handel
3 - Mendelssohn
2 - Vivaldi
1 - Tchaikovsky

-3 Brahms


----------



## crmoorhead

10 - Bach
9 - Beethoven
8 - Haydn
7 - Tchaikovsky
6 - Schumann, R
5 - Liszt
4 - Berlioz
3 - Mahler
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Verdi


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Shostakovich
4 - Hindemith
3 - Machaut
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo


----------



## Kieran

10. Mozart
9. Mahler
8. Schubert
7. Chopin
6. Wagner
5. Monteverdi
4. Beethoven
3. JS Bach
2. Haydn
1. Brahms


----------



## Arsakes

10 Dvorak
9 Haydn
8 Bruckner
7 Ippolitov-Ivanov
6 Rachmaninoff 
5 Handel
4 Mussorgsky
3 R. Strauss
2 Sibelius
1 Wagner

-3 Chopin


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

Debussy -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Strauss
9 Handel
8 Stravinsky
7 Haydn
6 Debussy
5 Brahms
4 Mahler
3 Verdi
2 Prokofiev
1 Faure
-3 Chopin


----------



## Sonata

10. Brahms
9. Mendelssohn
8. Mozart
7. Dvorak
6. Mahler
5. Beethoven
4. J.S. Bach
3. Schubert
2. Chopin
1. Haydn


----------



## emiellucifuge

10. R Wagner


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. J.S. Bach- 10 pts.
2. Richard Strauss- 9 pts.
3. G.F. Handel- 8 pts
4. Richard Wagner- 7 pts.
5. W.A. Mozart- 6 pts.
6. Franz Schubert- 5 pts.
7. Tchaikovsky- 4 pts.
8. Debussy- 3 pts.
9. Carlo Gesualdo- 2 pts.
10. Antonio Vivaldi- 1 pt.

Igor Stravinsky -3 points


----------



## Trout

Stravinsky - 10
Verdi - 9
Monteverdi - 8
Vaughan Williams - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Tchaikovsky - 5
Mahler - 4
Shostakovich - 3
Strauss - 2
Josquin - 1

Arnold -3

I think to make this more interesting, a composer should be removed when it reaches a certain number of points (say, 100 or so) and added to a permanent list.


----------



## SeanWolferl

Mozart: 10
Haydn: 9


----------



## Couchie

Richard Wagner: 10 points.

Richard Wagner's pet dog, Russ : 6 points.

Johann Sebastian Bach: 2.5 points.

GIOVANNI PIERLUIGI DE PALESTRINA: 0 points.

GustazzZZzzzZzzz Mahler, -3 points.


----------



## Turangalîla

Couchie is now banned from ever posting in this thread. Ever. :lol:


----------



## StevenOBrien

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Couchie is now banned from ever posting in this thread. Ever.


Does this mean all of his previous votes have been invalidated?


----------



## Turangalîla

StevenOBrien said:


> Does this mean all of his previous votes have been invalidated?


No, although I would like to do that, putting Wagner down the list where he belongs


----------



## Couchie

*Score Update
*
WILHELM RICHARD WAGNER: 2,389 points

et al: some points


----------



## tdc

J.S. Bach: 10
Ravel: 9
Debussy: 8
Sibelius: 7
Villa-Lobos: 6
Schnittke: 5
Mendelssohn: 4
Monteverdi: 3
Webern: 2
Berg: 1


----------



## Turangalîla

_*NEW RULE*_ (Inspired by Trout): As soon as a composer reaches *450 points*, they are automatically put onto the top 50. The first person to get to 450 gets to be Number 1 on the list, then Number 2, and so on. Time to start voting for Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven again!

My vote from Wednesday (which I was not able to submit then, and so today's vote I will post early tomorrow):

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Schoenberg - 8
Ravel - 7
Webern - 6
Berg - 5
Bach - 4
Haydn - 3
Chopin - 2
Schumann - 1

-3 to Debussy

Updated rankings (sorry for the wait):

1. *Bach - 328*

2. Mozart - 314

3. Beethoven - 280

4. Schubert - 227

5. Brahms - 200

6. Wagner - 190

7. Haydn - 183

8. Schumann - 154

9. Dvořák - 135

10. Chopin - 128

11. Handel - 127

12. Ravel - 116
12. Mahler - 116

14. Debussy - 114

15. Mendelssohn - 105

16. Stravinsky - 104

17. Tchaikovsky - 100

18. Strauss - 91

19. Sibelius - 83

20. Bartók - 78

21. Liszt - 74

22. Prokofiev - 70

23. Shostakovich - 67

24. Messiaen - 64

25. Rachmaninoff - 58

26. Verdi - 54

27. Berlioz - 50

28. Nielsen - 49

29. Schoenberg - 46

30. Mussorgsky - 45
30. Monteverdi - 45

32. Scriabin - 44

33. Elgar - 43
33. Bruckner - 43

35. Janáček - 41

36. Vaughan Williams - 40

37. Webern - 28
37. Grieg - 28

39. Arnold - 26

40. Barber - 25
40. Schnittke - 25

42. Berg - 24
42. Vivaldi - 24

44. Britten - 23

45. Ligeti - 22
45. Saint-Saëns - 22

47. Ives - 21

48. Palestrina - 19
48. Rossini - 19
48. Josquin - 19
48. Villa-Lobos - 19

52. Puccini - 18
52. Gesualdo - 18

54. Hindemith - 16

55. Scarlatti - 15
55. Wagner, Siegfried - 15

57. Machaut - 14
57. Fauré - 14

59. Rameau - 12

60. Paganini - 10
60. Purcell - 10
60. Varèse - 10
60. Penderecki - 10
60. Rudland - 10

65. Gombert - 9
65. Smetana - 9
65. Copland - 9
65. Harbison - 9

69. Macdowell - 8

70. Reich - 7
70. Biber - 7
70. Stockhausen - 7
70. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 7

74. Golijov - 6
74. Takemitsu - 6
74. Bizet - 6
74. Wohlfahrt - 6
74. Rodrigo - 6

79. Tallis - 5
79. Spohr - 5

81. Boulez - 4
81. Byrd - 4
81. Xenakis - 4

84. Holst - 3
84. Simpson - 3
84. Liefs - 3

87. Poulenc - 2
87. Rimsky-Korsakov - 2
87. Alfven - 2
87. Tower - 2

91. Gubaidulina - 1
91. Monti - 1
91. Alwyn - 1

94. Schobert - (-5)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. J.S. Bach- 10 pts.
2. W.A. Mozart- 9 pts.
3. G.F. Handel- 8 pts.
4. Richard Strauss- 7 pts. 
5. Gabriel Fauré- 6 pts.
6. Claude Debussy- 5 pts.
7. Carlo Gesualdo- 4 pts.
8. Claudio Monteverdi- 3 pts.
9. Josquin des Prez- 2 pts.
10. Richard Wagner- 1 pt.

L.v. Beethoven -3 pts


----------



## science

Wonderful! I'll vote again. 

10 Brahms
9 Tallis
8 Takemitsu
7 Gombert
6 Biber
5 Bizet
4 Rodrigo
3 Golijov
2 Reich
1 Byrd
-3 Schobert


----------



## emiellucifuge

Thinking ahead:

10 wagner
-3 brahms


----------



## Arsakes

any update?
Is it tomorrow?! yes it is..

10 Dvorak
9 Sibelius
8 Handel
7 Haydn
6 Mussorgsky
5 Vivaldi	
4 Grieg
3 Liszt	
2 Shostakovich
1 Saint-Saens

-3 Debussy


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Liszt: 9

Schoenberg: -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 - Bach
9 - Beethoven
8 - Wagner
7 - Mahler
6 - Liszt
5 - Tchaikovsky
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Chopin
2 - Barber
1 - Schumann


----------



## Kieran

I don't understand this thread! :lol:

We can vote every day?! So we just take our favourite composer and put him at the top and put his nearest rivals so low in our list so they don't gain on him. It's kind of like bloc-voting at the Eurovision Song Contest, but without the sexy dancers...  :devil: :tiphat:


----------



## crmoorhead

Kieran said:


> I don't understand this thread! :lol:
> 
> We can vote every day?! So we just take our favourite composer and put him at the top and put his nearest rivals so low in our list so they don't gain on him. It's kind of like bloc-voting at the Eurovision Song Contest, but without the sexy dancers...  :devil: :tiphat:


Seems kind of odd to me too, but the list so far seems mostly agreeable, so I've started to vote every day too. Everybody's personal passions seems to average out, it seems.


----------



## Arsakes

I still don't know how can I elevate my favorite less popular composers upwards in the list single handedly!

The list is agreeable already.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Erik Satie
9 - George Gershwin

(Can't believe the above two haven't received any votes yet)

8 - Chopin
7 - Handel
6 - Mozart
5 - Beethoven
4 - Mendelssohn
3 - Philip Glass
2 - John Adams
1 - Johann Nepomuk Hummel

-3 - Siegfried Wagner



Also, I've compiled a short list of composers that aren't on the list yet that some people might want to consider voting for:


Lully
C.P.E. Bach
J.C. Bach
Carl Maria von Weber
Gluck
Telemann
John Field
Clara Schumann
Anton Rubinstein
Marc-Antoine Charpentier
Michael Haydn
Giacamo Meyerbeer
Donizetti
Elliot Carter
Johann Strauss II
Anton Eberl
Ferdinand Ries
Carl Czerny
John Corigliano
Offenbach
Gregorio Allegri
Isaac Albeniz
Bellini
Reinhold Gliere
Medtner


----------



## Sonata

So I'm confused....are we re-voting with the same list, or trying to throw points to other composers in the subsequent votes? Or either way we wish?


----------



## Vesteralen

Sonata said:


> So I'm confused....are we re-voting with the same list, or trying to throw points to other composers in the subsequent votes? Or either way we wish?


You can do whatever you want. What I do is just ask myself each day - who would I most like to listen to today? My list changes every day, sometimes subtly and sometimes drastically. 

The good thing is, when we're all done, no board of experts is going to be handing out penalties for unacceptable results.


----------



## lilmoz

1-beethoven 2-mozart 3-chopin 4-schumann 5- schubert 6-haydn 7-bach 8-rachmaninov 9-handel 10-brahms


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Wagner


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 - Alfven, Hugo
9 - Delius, F
8 - Nielsen, C
7 - Elgar, E
6 - Barber, S
5 - Schumann, R
4 - Monteverdi, C
3 - Locatelli
2 - Harbison, J
1 - Liefs, J


----------



## Klavierspieler

stomanek said:


> It doesn't baffle me. He wrote 4 average symphonies - some reasonable chamber music and solo piano - one very good piano concerto and one excellent piano quintet.
> Mozart wrote 6 great operas - 6 great symphonies - 10 great quartets - another at least 10 great pieces of chamber music -a legendary reqiuem and c minor mass etc etc - shall I go on? Even if I hated Mozart - I would still include him in the top 5 based on his achievements.
> Of course people simply put down their top 10 favourites which is wrong as the list if for greatest composers and not an opportunity to show off the fact that you listen to obscure avant garde. I have also seen Beethoven excluded which is equally ridiculous and really devalues the integrity of the list. I tried to compile mine based on recognised musical achievement in the world of classical music.


I can't figure out what you're talking about. Schumann wrote four excellent symphonies - a multitude of first-rate chamber and solo piano music - a huge amount of incredible lieder - seven fabulous concerti - several outstanding overtures.

Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies - a bunch of really annoying piano concerti - some rather tame chamber music - six operas .

:devil:

He did write some excellent piano sonatas, I'll give him that.


----------



## Sonata

stomanek said:


> It doesn't baffle me. He wrote 4 average symphonies - some reasonable chamber music and solo piano - one very good piano concerto and one excellent piano quintet.
> Mozart wrote 6 great operas - 6 great symphonies - 10 great quartets - another at least 10 great pieces of chamber music -a legendary reqiuem and c minor mass etc etc - shall I go on? Even if I hated Mozart - I would still include him in the top 5 based on his achievements.
> Of course people simply put down their top 10 favourites which is wrong as the list if for greatest composers and not an opportunity to show off the fact that you listen to obscure avant garde. I have also seen Beethoven excluded which is equally ridiculous and really devalues the integrity of the list. I tried to compile mine based on recognised musical achievement in the world of classical music.


I find a "who TC is enjoying most now" is a little more interesting than the "greatest" yet again. especially since many of us are avid fans of classical music but not neccessarily well versed in music theory/counterpoint/musical history. A lot of people will throw out names of the "greatest" because that's what's simply been told to them.


----------



## Sonata

Mendelssohn
Schubert
Wagner
Liszt
Clara Schumann
Debussey


----------



## IBMchicago

10 - Mozart
9 - JS Bach
8 - Shubert
7 - Beethoven
6 - Chopin
5 - Brahms
4 - Haydn
3 - Verdi
2 - Wagner
1 - Mendelssohn


----------



## Turangalîla

Yesterday's vote (I can hopefully update early this evening):

Messiaen - 10
Ravel - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schoenberg - 7
Schumann - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Haydn - 4
Handel - 3
Chopin - 2
Gesualdo - 1

-3 to Debussy

*Just to clarify:* This thread can be for "your favourite" composers or "the greatest" composers, whichever ones you would like to see on the Top 50 List. This new rule that I revealed yesterday means that you need to vote for whomever you want to be at the top of the list as much as possible (but of course, only once a day still) so that they will reach 450 points before the others do.


----------



## Vesteralen

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Yesterday's vote (I can hopefully update early this evening):
> 
> Messiaen - 10
> Ravel - 9
> Mussorgsky - 8
> Schoenberg - 7
> Schumann - 6
> Mendelssohn - 5
> Haydn - 4
> Handel - 3
> Chopin - 2
> Gesualdo - 1
> 
> -3 to Debussy
> 
> *Just to clarify:* This thread can be for "your favourite" composers or "the greatest" composers, whichever ones you would like to see on the Top 50 List. This new rule that I revealed yesterday means that* you need to vote for whomever you want to be at the top of the list as much as possible (but of course, only once a day still) so that they will reach 450 points before the others do*.


I don't think I'm going to have 45 days of voting to get my favorites to the top. 

That's okay, I'm just glad to have an opportunity to make a respectable showing.


----------



## Hausmusik

Klavierspieler said:


> Schumann wrote four excellent symphonies...
> Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

Ravel -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

Hausmusik said:


>


To troll or not to troll, that is the question.

Too late. :devil:


----------



## Hausmusik

You are right: anybody who casually dismisses _all_ of Mozart's symphonies as "boring" is certainly behaving like a troll!


----------



## Klavierspieler

(Although I really do find them rather boring)


----------



## Hausmusik

"Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies."
"Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 symphonies _I find rather boring._"

Subtle difference.


----------



## Vesteralen

One man finds them rather boring,
Many'd rather be adoring.
I can never take the measure
Of another listener's pleasure.


----------



## trazom

Hausmusik said:


> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies."
> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 symphonies _I find rather boring._"
> 
> Subtle difference.


Maybe subtlety is lost on people who find all those symphonies boring.


----------



## Klavierspieler

Must... not... troll...










Hmmmmm.....


----------



## pjang23

Yeah, I also prefer the dynamic list over a race to the finish.

10 Debussy
9 Brahms
8 Strauss
7 Stravinsky
6 Mahler
5 Handel
4 Dvorak
3 Prokofiev
2 Bach
1 Verdi
-3 Wagner


----------



## Klavierspieler

Hausmusik said:


> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies."
> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 symphonies _I find rather boring._"
> 
> Subtle difference.


[SERIOUS]I was making a point.[/SERIOUS]


----------



## Hausmusik

OK, I'll put in my oar although I have no idea what the tally is right now!

10 Mendelssohn
9 Schubert
8 Haydn
7 Sibelius
6 Beethoven
5 Brahms
4 Mozart
2 Sibelius
1 Bach

-3 Wagner


----------



## Sonata

Happy to see some love for Mendelssohn!


----------



## Trout

Verdi - 10
Mahler - 9
Monteverdi - 8
Copland - 7
Respighi - 6
Varese - 5
Stravinsky - 4
Bach - 3
Puccini - 2
Josquin - 1

Arnold -3



CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> _*NEW RULE*_ (Inspired by Trout): As soon as a composer reaches *450 points*, they are automatically put onto the top 50. The first person to get to 450 gets to be Number 1 on the list, then Number 2, and so on.


Would 450 points take too long to attain to sustain interest?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

after trout:

10. Stravinsky
9. Schoenberg
8. Bartok
7. Webern
6. Berg
5. Stockhausen
4. Varese
3. Martinu
2. Lutoslawski
1. Bartok

-3 Schubert


----------



## Turangalîla

Hausmusik said:


> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 boring symphonies."
> "Mozart, on the other hand, wrote 44 symphonies _I find rather boring._"
> 
> Subtle difference.


While, of course, the latter statement is more polite, I'm not sure that it is necessary. Klavierspieler would of course never expect everyone to agree with the fact that Mozart "wrote 44 boring symphonies". Rather, it is _assumed_ that this is an opinion, and so it is not necessary to include that it is.


----------



## Couchie

Wagner: 10
Bach: -3


----------



## tdc

10: J.S. Bach
9: Ravel
8: Debussy
7: Bartok
6: Mahler
5: Bruckner
4: Rodrigo
3: Lully
2: Albeniz
1: Monteverdi


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. J.S. Bach- 10 pts.
2. W.A. Mozart- 9 pts
3. Richard Strauss- 8 pts.
4. Gabriel Fauré- 7 pts.
5. Richard Wagner- 6 pts.
6. Franz Schubert- 5 pts.
7. G. F. Handel- 4 pts.
8. Claude Debussy- 3 pts.
9. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov- 2 pts.
10. Benjamin Britten- 1 pt.

Johannes Brahms -3 pts


----------



## Couchie

stlukesguildohio said:


> 1. J.s. Bach- 10 pts.
> 2. W.a. Mozart- 9 pts
> 3. Richard strauss- 8 pts.
> 4. Gabriel fauré- 7 pts.
> 5. Richard wagner- 6 pts.
> 6. Franz schubert- 5 pts.
> 7. G. F. Handel- 4 pts.
> 8. Claude debussy- 3 pts.
> 9. Nikolai rimsky-korsakov- 2 pts.
> 10. Benjamin britten- 1 pt.
> 
> Johannes brahms -3 pts


**** you..... Like bach needs more votes. I HATE YOU.


----------



## Couchie

Couchie said:


> **** you..... Like bach needs more votes. I HATE YOU.


I am going to vote -3 BACH until THE DAY I DIE.


----------



## StevenOBrien

Couchie said:


> I am going to vote -3 BACH until THE DAY I DIE.


What's your ideal final Top 10 Couchie?


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I am going to vote -3 BACH until THE DAY I DIE.

Hey... I helped you out with a -3 for Brahms and 0 pts for Beethoven... but if you are going to blaspheme God Almighty... I mean J.S. Bach, well then I'll have no alternative but to counter each of your -3 pts for Bach with -3 for Wagner... and who will end up in the basement sooner?:devil:


----------



## Conor71

10 Chopin
9 J.S Bach
8 Sibelius
7 Shostakovich
6 Schubert
5 Tchaikovsky
4 Bruckner
3 Mozart
2 Beethoven
1 Messiaen


----------



## Arsakes

10 Dvorak
9 Haydn
8 Handel
7 Sibelius
6 Mussorgsky
5 Ippolitov Ivanov
4 Ravel
3 Liszt	
2 Shostakovich
1 Vivaldi	

-3 Bach 

very few changes!


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - C.P.E. Bach
9 - Carl Maria von Weber
8 - Lully
7 - Gluck
6 - Corelli
5 - J.C. Bach
4 - Bellini
3 - Telemann
2 - Johann Strauss II
1 - Giacamo Meyerbeer

-3 - Carl Czerny


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Rachmaninoff: 9

Stravinsky: -3


----------



## Sonata

Mendelssohn-10
Mahler-9
Gesualdo-8
Schubert-7
Clara Schumann-6
Dvorak-5
Brahms-4
Liszt-3

Wagner- -3


----------



## Hausmusik

10 Mendelssohn
9 Schubert
8 Haydn
7 Sibelius
6 Beethoven
5 Brahms
4 Mozart
2 Sibelius
1 Bach

-3 Wagner


----------



## Turangalîla

Trout said:


> Would 450 points take too long to attain to sustain interest?


I don't think so. I'll update scores later today, but with the way this has been going, Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven should be at 450 in a maximum of three days.

While I'm at it, I'll vote:

Ravel - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Messiaen - 8
Mendelssohn - 7
Chopin - 6
Schumann - 5
Hildegard (has she not been mentioned yet?) - 4
Schoenberg - 3
Berg - 2
Webern - 1

-3 to Debussy


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10pts - Alfven, Hugo
9 Pts - Novak, Vitezslav
8 pts - Nielsen, Carl
7 pts - Liefs, Jon
6 pts - Arnold, Sir Malcom
5 pts - Schumann, R
4 pts - Dvorak, A
3 pts - Haydn, FJ
2 pts - Locatelli
1 pt - Elgar, E


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

Ravel -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

Hausmusik said:


> 10 Mendelssohn
> 9 Schubert
> 8 Haydn
> 7 Sibelius
> 6 Beethoven
> 5 Brahms
> 4 Mozart
> 2 Sibelius
> 1 Bach
> 
> -3 Wagner


I just want to make sure you realize that you're missing your 3-point vote.


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Wagner


----------



## Turangalîla

lilmoz said:


> 1-beethoven 2-mozart 3-chopin 4-schumann 5- schubert 6-haydn 7-bach 8-rachmaninov 9-handel 10-brahms


I am assuming that Beethoven gets ten points and Brahms gets one??


----------



## Hesoos

1. Verdi 10
2. Wagner 9
3. Mozart 8
4. Beethoven 7
5. Rossini 6
6. Mahler 5
7. Berlioz 4
8. Puccini 3
9. Donizetti 2
10. Schubert 1


----------



## Couchie

Wagner 10
Siegfried Wagner 9

Brahms: -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Brahms
9 Debussy
8 Stravinsky
7 Mahler
6 Haydn
5 Strauss
4 Dvorak
3 Tchaikovsky
2 Prokofiev
1 Verdi
-3 Wagner


----------



## crmoorhead

10 Bach
9 Beethoven
8 Mahler
7 Tchaikovsky
6 Liszt
5 Bartok
4 Debussy
3 Barber
2 Ravel
1 Wagner


----------



## Conor71

10 Mendelssohn
9 Shostakovich
8 Chopin
7 J.S Bach
6 Ligeti
5 Sibelius
4 Tchaikovsky
3 Mozart
2 Haydn
1 Beethoven


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10 Bach
9 Brahms
8 Schubert
7 Chopin
6 Haydn
5 Saint Saens
4 Liszt
3 Mozart
2 Rimsky-Korsakov
1 Dvorak


----------



## Hausmusik

What is the tally? Gamemeister?


----------



## Turangalîla

Hausmusik said:


> What is the tally? Gamemeister?


Working on it as we speak! These things take time, you know.


----------



## Turangalîla

I updated the score and then took it off...but I don't know how to delete posts! Check the next page for latest update!


----------



## science

Pending the hard-working Mr. Johnson's work, I'll vote: 

10 Brahms
9 Debussy 
8 Stravinsky 
7 Tchaikovsky 
6 Bartok
5 Shostakovich 
4 Verdi
3 Rachmaninov
2 Hindemith 
1 Albeniz

-3 Schobert


----------



## Turangalîla

science said:


> Pending the hard-working Mr. Johnson's work, I'll vote:
> 
> 10 Brahms
> 9 Debussy
> 8 Stravinsky
> 7 Tchaikovsky
> 6 Bartok
> 5 Shostakovich
> 4 Verdi
> 3 Rachmaninov
> 2 Hindemith
> 1 Albeniz
> 
> -3 Schobert


Just so you know, I'm including it in the current point update, science!


----------



## Turangalîla

*RULE ANNOUNCEMENT*: While Bach is very close to the 450 mark, no one has reached it yet. I am *keeping* the rule that a composer must reach 450 to be put on a permanent list (where his position or rank cannot be altered, and all votes for them will not count any longer), but, obviously, I am not waiting for all 50 composers to reach 450 points, that would be unrealistic. (Right now, number 50, Hindemith, has only 24 votes). You all have *seven days* (beginning tomorrow, Sunday, June 10, and ending on-but still including-Saturday, June 16) to get your top picks onto the permanent list so you can focus on other composers. ALL VOTES MUST BE POSTED BY THE MIDNIGHT AFTER JUNE 16 (and in MY time zone, Pacific Time Zone).

Here is my vote (and I am now caught up in my votes):

Messiaen - 10 
Ravel - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schoenberg - 7
Schumann - 6
Webern - 5
Berg - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Gesualdo - 2
Chopin - 1

-3 to Debussy

The biggest gains have gone to Mendelssohn (by far), Verdi, and Gesualdo. Berlioz suffered the most. Current tally update (as of science's vote):

1. *Bach* - *426*

2. Mozart - 391

3. Beethoven - 364

4. Schubert - 298

5. Brahms - 266

6. Haydn - 247

7. Wagner - 239

8. Schumann - 209

9. Chopin - 186

10. Mendelssohn - 178

11. Dvořák - 177

12. Handel - 172

13. Mahler - 171

14. Ravel - 163

15. Debussy - 150

16. Stravinsky - 142

17. Tchaikovsky - 131

18. Sibelius - 126

19. Strauss - 123

20. Bartók - 118

21. Liszt - 115

22. Shostakovich - 104

23. Messiaen - 93

24. Verdi - 83

25. Mussorgsky - 82

26. Prokofiev - 75

27. Rachmaninoff - 73

28. Schoenberg - 69

29. Nielsen - 65

30. Scriabin - 64

31. Monteverdi - 61

32. Janáček - 59

33. Berlioz - 54

34. Bruckner - 52

35. Elgar - 51

36. Webern - 41

37. Vaughan Williams - 40

38. Britten - 36
38. Barber - 36
38. Berg - 36

41. Gesualdo - 35

42. Grieg - 32

43. Vivaldi - 30

44. Arnold - 29

45. Ligeti - 28
45. Saint-Saëns - 28

47. Fauré - 27

48. Schnittke - 25
48. Rossini - 25

50. Hindemith - 24

51. Puccini - 23

52. Josquin - 22
52. Alfven - 22

54. Ives - 21
54. Wagner, Siegfried - 21

56. Palestrina - 19
56. Villa-Lobos - 19
56. Varèse - 19

59. Copland - 16
59. Gombert - 16

61. Scarlatti - 15

62. Takemitsu - 14
62. Machaut - 14
62. Rodrigo - 14
62. Tallis - 14

66. Biber - 13

67. Rameau - 12
67. Stockhausen - 12
67. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 12
67. Schumann, Clara - 12

71. Harbison - 11
71. Lully - 11
71. Liefs - 11

74. Paganini - 10
74. Purcell - 10
74. Penderecki - 10
74. Rudland - 10
74. Satie - 10
74. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
74. Medtner - 10

81. Smetana - 9
81. Gershwin - 9
81. Delius - 9
81. Weber - 9
81. Novak - 9
81. Reich - 9
81. Golijov - 9

88. Macdowell - 8

89. Gluck - 7

90. Bizet - 6
90. Wohlfahrt - 6
90. Respighi - 6
90. Corelli - 6
90. Rimsky-Korsakov - 6

95. Spohr - 5
95. Bach, J.C. - 5
95. Locatelli - 5
95. Byrd - 5

99. Boulez - 4
99. Xenakis - 4
99. Bellini - 4
99. Hildegard - 4

103. Holst - 3
103. Simpson - 3
103. Glass - 3
103. Martinu - 3
103. Telemann - 3
103. Albeniz - 3

109. Adams - 2
109. Poulenc - 2
109. Tower - 2
109. Lutoslawski - 2 
109. Strauss, Johann II - 2
109. Donizetti - 2

115. Gubaidulina - 1
115. Monti - 1
115. Alwyn - 1
115. Hummel - 1
115. Meyerbeer - 1

120. Czerny - -3

121. Schobert - -11


----------



## Trout

Josquin - 10
Palestrina - 9
Berlioz - 8
Shostakovich - 7
Vaughan Williams - 6
Verdi - 5
Prokofiev - 4
R. Strauss - 3
Monteverdi - 2
Vivaldi - 1

Arnold -3


----------



## Couchie

This list is a partial-birth abortion.


----------



## tdc

10: J.S. Bach
9: Ravel
8: Debussy
7: Bartok
6: Monteverdi
5: Schnittke
4: Lully
3: Mendelssohn
2: Vivaldi
1: Villa-Lobos


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Debussy 10 pts. 
2. Gabriel Faure- 9 pts.
3. J.S Bach- 8 pts.
4. W.A Mozart- 7 pts.
5. Richard Strauss- 6 pts. 
6. Carlo Gesualdo- 5 pts
7. Franz Schubert- 4 pts
8. Richard Wagner- 3 pts.
9. Gluck- 2 pts.
10. Bellini- 1 pt.

Ravel -3 pts.


----------



## emiellucifuge

10 Wagner

Im voting strategically, I want to have him in the top 5


----------



## Webernite

Beethoven 10 
Wagner 9
Chopin 8


----------



## Cygnenoir

10 - Ligeti
9 - Reich
8 - Glass
7 - Penderecki
6 - Mahler
5 - Debussy
4 - Prokofiev
3 - Stravinsky
2 - Grieg
1 - Messiaen


----------



## Arsakes

Oh it's near that first places to fill ...

10 - Dvořák
9 - Brahms
8 - Beethoven
7 - Haydn
6 - Handel
5 - Shostakovich
4 - Ravel
3 - Ippolitov Ivanov
2 - Mussorgsky
1 - Smetana

-3 debussy


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Erik Satie
9 - Mozart
8 - Handel
7 - Chopin
6 - Bizet
5 - Anton Eberl
4 - Mendelssohn
3 - Elliot Carter
2 - Gregorio Allegri
1 - Offenbach

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Couchie

Wagner 10
siegfried Wagner 9

Haydn -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Wagner


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Beethoven - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

Chopin -3


----------



## trazom

10-Mozart
9- Wagner
8- JS Bach
7-Brahms


----------



## Turangalîla

And...*WE HAVE A WINNER!*

Talk Classical's Number One composer is...

(Drum roll please...)

*JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH!*









YAY!!

Bach is now Number 1 for *ALL TIME* on this poll...do not vote for him any more, it will not count!
(Couchie, feel free to vote _against_ him...instead of voting against Beethoven or Haydn )

Bach finished with 460 points. Keep voting, folks!


----------



## pjang23

10 Debussy
9 Mahler
8 Handel
7 Brahms
6 Dvorak
5 Schubert
4 Stravinsky
3 Strauss
2 Verdi
1 Prokofiev
-3 Chopin


----------



## Trout

Prokofiev - 10
Shostakovich - 9
Stravinsky - 8
Strauss - 7
Mahler - 6
Beethoven - 5
Tchaikovsky - 4
Vivaldi - 3
Dvorak - 2
Monteverdi - 1

Siegfried Wagner -3


----------



## DeepR

Chopin 10
Scriabin 9
Rachmaninoff 8

Mozart -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Weber
9. Gershwin
8. Bizet
7. Bellini
6. Holst
5. Lutoslawski
4. Xenakis
3. Stockhausen
2. Penderecki
1. Hindemith

-3 J Haydn


----------



## Turangalîla

Only 26 points left for Mozart, and 46 for Beethoven! Which one do you want to win? Vote strategically!
(Can't help but say that giving small amounts of points to composers who are ranked, like, 100th is going to do absolutely nothing for you. If you want an obscure composer to make it on the list, you'd better be giving them at least eight points every day. Otherwise, your votes are wasted.)
:tiphat:


----------



## Couchie

R. Wagner: 10 points
S. Wagner: 9 points
J. S. Bach: 8 points

J. Haydn: -3 Points


----------



## Turangalîla

Couchie said:


> R. Wagner: 10 points
> S. Wagner: 9 points
> J. S. Bach: 8 points
> 
> J. Haydn: -3 Points


MUAHAHAHA, I caught you! It's only been seven hours since your last vote! Only once a day, my friend! (And you live in Canada too, so don't try to fool me with anything about time zone differences!)

*OFFICIAL CHEATING PENALTY FOR COUCHIE:
NO VOTING FOR SIEGFRIED WAGNER (AND NO -3 VOTES FOR ANYONE) FOR THREE (3) DAYS.*


----------



## Couchie

Oh ****, I actually forgot I voted earlier.


----------



## Turangalîla

Couchie said:


> Oh ****, I actually forgot I voted earlier.


 What a shame, I guess Siegfried will just suffer a few votes. :devil: :lol:


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Beethoven
9 Wagner
8 Tchaikovsky
7 Bartok
6 Strauss, Richard
5 Debussy
4 Ravel
3 BArber
2 Handel
1 Stravinsky


----------



## Sonata

10- Mendelssohn
9- Mahler
8-Corelli
7-Puccini
6- Dvorak
5-Faure


----------



## science

10 Brahms
9 Dvorak 
8 Debussy
7 Stravinsky
6 Tchaikovsky 
5 Bartok 
4 Shostakovich 
3 Liszt 
2 Rachmaninoff 
1 Albeniz 
-3 Schobert


----------



## Arsakes

10 - Dvořák
9 - Brahms
8 - Beethoven
7 - Haydn
6 - Handel
5 - Sibelius
4 - Ravel
3 - Ippolitov Ivanov
2 - Mussorgsky
1 - Smetana

-3 Chopin


----------



## Arsakes

lol who is this unfortunate Schobert? has he tried to use the name of Schubert to be famous?!


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Mozart- 10 pts.
2. Debussy- 9 pts.
3. Wagner- 8 pts
4. Richard Strauss- 7 pts.
5. Tchaikovsky- 6 pts.
6. Handel- 5 pts.
7. Schubert- 4pts.
8. Gabriel Faure- 3 pts.
9. Carlo Gesualdo- 2 pts.
10. Bellini- 1 pt.

Beethoven -3 pts


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Debussy
8: Mozart
7: Beethoven
6: Monteverdi
5: Schnittke
4: Rodrigo
3: Albeniz
2: D. Scarlatti
1: Lully


----------



## Turangalîla

*VERY IMPORTANT EDIT: I did not see that a page 17 existed, so this following point tally is ONLY updated for Arsakes' most recent vote. It does NOT include StlukesguildOhio's and tdc's votes. The major considerable difference I see is that Mozart now has a considerable gain on Beethoven, so ignore the purple message at the end. I'm exhausted and I want to go to bed, so I will update their votes in the morning.* 

My vote:

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Haydn - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Webern - 5
Berg - 3
Mendelssohn - 4
Gesualdo - 2
Ligeti - 1

-3 to Debussy

*POINT TALLY:*

*1. Bach - PERMANENT #1...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM*

2. Mozart - 424

3. Beethoven - 422

4. Brahms - 315

5. Schubert - 313

6. Wagner - 291

7. Haydn - 264

8. Dvořák - 224

9. Schumann - 219

10. Chopin - 202
10. Handel - 202
10. Mendelssohn - 202

13. Mahler - 201

14. Ravel - 191

15. Debussy - 190

16. Stravinsky - 167

17. Tchaikovsky - 150

18. Strauss - 148

19. Bartók - 144

20. Sibelius - 131

21. Shostakovich - 125

22. Liszt - 118

23. Messiaen - 103

24. Prokofiev - 94
24. Mussorgsky - 94

26. Verdi - 90

27. Rachmaninoff - 83

28. Schoenberg - 75

29. Scriabin - 73

30. Monteverdi - 70

31. Janáček - 68

32. Nielsen - 65

33. Berlioz - 62

34. Bruckner - 52

35. Elgar - 51

36. Vaughan Williams - 46
36. Webern - 46

38. Gesualdo - 43

39. Britten - 42

40. Fauré - 41

41. Berg - 39
41. Barber - 39
41. Ligeti - 39

44. Vivaldi - 36

45. Grieg - 34

46. Josquin - 32

47. Schnittke - 30
47. Puccini - 30

49. Palestrina - 28
49. Hindemith - 28
49. Saint-Saëns - 28

52. Arnold - 26

53. Rossini - 25

54. Wagner, Siegfried - 24

55. Alfven - 22

56. Ives - 21

57. Bizet - 20
57. Villa-Lobos - 20
57. Satie - 20

60. Weber - 19
60. Varèse - 19
60. Penderecki - 19

63. Reich - 18
63. Gershwin - 18
63. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 18

66. Copland - 16
66. Gombert - 16

68. Stockhausen - 15
68. Scarlatti - 15
68. Lully - 15
68. Medtner - 15

72. Takemitsu - 14
72. Machaut - 14
72. Rodrigo - 14
72. Tallis - 14
72. Corelli - 14

77. Biber - 13

78. Rameau - 12
78. Schumann, Clara - 12
78. Bellini - 12

81. Harbison - 11
81. Liefs - 11
81. Smetana - 11
81. Glass - 11

85. Paganini - 10
85. Purcell - 10
85. Rudland - 10
85. Bach, C.P.E. - 10

89. Delius - 9
89. Novak - 9
89. Golijov - 9
89. Gluck - 9
89. Holst - 9

94. Macdowell - 8
94. Xenakis - 8

96. Lutoslawski - 7

97. Wohlfahrt - 6
97. Respighi - 6
97. Rimsky-Korsakov - 6

100. Spohr - 5
100. Bach, J.C. - 5
100. Locatelli - 5
100. Byrd - 5
100. Eberl - 5

105. Boulez - 4
105. Hildegard - 4
105. Albeniz - 4

108. Simpson - 3
108. Martinu - 3
108. Telemann - 3
108. Carter - 3

112. Adams - 2
112. Poulenc - 2
112. Tower - 2
112. Strauss, Johann II - 2
112. Donizetti - 2
112. Allegri - 2

118. Gubaidulina - 1
118. Monti - 1
118. Alwyn - 1
118. Hummel - 1
118. Meyerbeer - 1
118. Offenbach - 1

124. Czerny - -3

125. Schobert - -14

*No one is voting for Mozart, and very few for Beethoven! But Beethoven is now only two points behind Mozart! Let's end this battle!*


----------



## Turangalîla

Arsakes said:


> lol who is this unfortunate Schobert? has he tried to use the name of Schubert to be famous?!


This "unfortunate" Schobert "died in Paris, along with his wife, one of their children, a maidservant and four acquaintances, after insisting that certain poisonous mushrooms were edible", according to Wikipedia. :lol:


----------



## Muddy

Beethoven-10
Schubert-9


----------



## science

Arsakes said:


> lol who is this unfortunate Schobert? has he tried to use the name of Schubert to be famous?!


I will not rest until Brilliant puts out a Schobert box set.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Mozart
9 - Bizet
8 - Satie
7 - Chopin
6 - Mendelssohn
5 - Handel
4 - Glass
3 - Hummel
2 - Cherubini
1 - Leonard Bernstein

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 pts - Nielsen, C
9 pts - Alfven, H
8 pts - Novak, V
7 pts - Schumann, R
6 pts - Elgar, E
5 pts - Brahms, J
4 pts - Mozart, WA
3 pts - Monteverdi, C
2 pts - Machaut, G
1 pt -  Locatelli


----------



## StevenOBrien

> lol who is this unfortunate Schobert? has he tried to use the name of Schubert to be famous?!


He was an early classical-era Austrian composer that composed mainly works for harpsichord. In 1760, he met the Mozarts as they were touring France, and was apparently very insulted when Leopold informed him that his children could play his sonatas with ease. Schobert was supposedly an important influence on Mozart's piano writing style.

A few years later, he was on holiday with his family and a few acquaintances. He had randomly picked some poisonous mushrooms from the ground outside and mistakenly insisted to everyone that they were edible. A few days after eating them, he died a slow and painful death, along with his wife, one of his children, a maidservant and four of his acquaintances. I'm just happy that he didn't make friends with the Mozarts...

Obviously, the man was a bit of a dimwit, but as for his music, it's rather enjoyable in my opinion. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether or not he deserves his position as the worst composer of all time.


----------



## Trout

Mahler - 10
Bruckner - 9
Prokofiev - 8
Berlioz - 7
Vivaldi - 6
Vaughan Williams - 5
Josquin - 4
Monteverdi - 3
Verdi - 2
Stravinsky - 1

Arnold -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Beethoven
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Wagner


----------



## emiellucifuge

10. Wagner
9. Debussy
8. Verdi
7. Stravinsky
6. Varese


----------



## Cygnenoir

Beethoven - 10
Mahler - 9
Adams - 8
Debussy - 7
Ligeti - 6
Prokofiev - 5
Reich - 4
Grieg - 3
Penderecki - 2
Stravinsky - 1


----------



## mmsbls

Mozart - 10
Mendelssohn - 9
Bach - 8
Brahms - 7
Schubert - 6
Wagner - 5
Dvorak - 4
Handel - 3
Haydn - 2
Tchaikovsky - 1

Chopin -3

There seem to be two ways of determining those composers that reach permanent status on the list. You can tally all votes at the end of the day or add each vote in order. One composer could reach 450 before another composer, but at the end of the day the second composer could have a higher vote total. Do you have a preferred method?


----------



## Sonata

Mendelssohn-10
Mahler-9
Corelli-8
Gesualdo-7
Grieg-6
Brahms-5
Gorecki-4
Debussey-3
Chopin-2
Tchaikovsky-1

Wagner- -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

mmsbls said:


> There seem to be two ways of determining those composers that reach permanent status on the list. You can tally all votes at the end of the day or add each vote in order. One composer could reach 450 before another composer, but at the end of the day the second composer could have a higher vote total. Do you have a preferred method?


I would think the second way, but it's up to CJP.


----------



## pjang23

10 Haydn
9 Stravinsky
8 Schubert
7 Brahms
6 Prokofiev
5 Tchaikovsky
4 Strauss
3 Handel
2 Verdi
1 Ravel
-3 Wagner


----------



## Turangalîla

mmsbls said:


> There seem to be two ways of determining those composers that reach permanent status on the list. You can tally all votes at the end of the day or add each vote in order. One composer could reach 450 before another composer, but at the end of the day the second composer could have a higher vote total. Do you have a preferred method?


I will certainly add each vote in the order they come. If Beethoven has two points more than Mozart when I complete the tally, but Mozart had reached 450 first, Mozart would be the winner.

On another note, *PLEASE vote for Ravel!* I am tallying the points right now, and I cannot stand to see him losing to Debussy! If you like Ravel, give him ten points! I know that as the official poller I shouldn't try to influence people, but anyways...


----------



## Couchie

Wagner - 10 points
Schobert - 9 points


----------



## Turangalîla

My vote:

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schumann - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Chopin - 5
Mendelssohn - 4
Haydn - 3
Handel - 2
Monteverdi - 1

-3 Debussy


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

The reason that one might vote for Debussy over Ravel is that Debussy is by far the greater composer. If we had more support for the Russians here, Rimsky-Korsakov would be ahead of Ravel. He is every bit Ravel's equal in terms of orchestration and certainly buries him as an operatic composer.


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10-Chopin
9-Tchaikovsky 
8-Schubert
7-Brahms
6-Liszt
5-Saint Saens
4-Handel
3-Haydn
2-Debussy
1-Rimsky-Korsakov


----------



## tdc

StlukesguildOhio said:


> *The reason that one might vote for Debussy over Ravel is that Debussy is by far the greater composer*. If we had more support for the Russians here, Rimsky-Korsakov would be ahead of Ravel. He is every bit Ravel's equal in terms of orchestration and certainly buries him as an operatic composer.


The more I listen to their works the more I disagree with this. Debussy has sublime moments riddled with inconsistencies. I can only think of a handful of his works that I feel are near-perfectly composed from start to finish. With Ravel its perfect composition after perfect composition. I admit to not having listened to much in terms of R-K's operas (except some excerpts on youtube) but if we are talking non-operatic material we are not even remotely close here. R-K never reached anywhere near Ravel's sublime level of craftsmanship. I think your 'rankings' here are a little outdated, talking to professional musicians and professors of music Ravel's reputation I've found is exceedingly high, and I feel - on the rise.


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Gluck
8: Bartok
7: Lully
6: Monteverdi
5: Debussy
4: Villa-Lobos
3: Mendelssohn
2: Brouwer
1: Schnittke


----------



## Turangalîla

StlukesguildOhio said:


> The reason that one might vote for Debussy over Ravel is that *Debussy is by far the greater composer*. If we had more support for the Russians here, Rimsky-Korsakov would be ahead of Ravel. He is every bit Ravel's equal in terms of orchestration and certainly buries him as an operatic composer.


You are certainly not expecting me to accept this statement as fact, I hope. Since it is coming from _your_ perspective, I am assuming that it is _your_ own opinion. If you were to take a poll of one million great musicians worldwide, you would find overwhelming support for neither Debussy nor Ravel. It comes down to a matter of personal taste. _I_ find Ravel's orchestrations to be finer and more brilliant than Debussy's, his form more structured, his ideas clearer, his harmonies less indulgent, and his œuvre more varied. But, of course, that is also of my opinion, which was why I was encouraging the members to vote for Ravel. I was not doing so because Ravel is "by far the greater composer" and everyone should feel obligated to vote for him.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

The more I listen to their works the more I disagree with this. Debussy has sublime moments riddled with inconsistencies. I can only think of a handful of his works that I feel are near-perfectly composed from start to finish. With Ravel its perfect composition after perfect composition.

I would beg to disagree. Debussy's oeuvre is laden with the most exquisite compositions, from his orchestral works, to compositions for solo piano, to his chamber works or works for voice. Ravel may have produced a good number of perfect gems, but his ouevre is rather limited in scale... something that Ravel himself recognized as preventing his own inclusion among the top ranks of composers. Debussy, beyond have produced far more music, is far more important historically. He leads the way from the Romanticism of Berlioz, Massenet, and Wagner toward Impressionism and Modernism. He was one of the central figures in stretching the possibilities of traditional tonality... along with Wagner, Scriabin, and Mahler. Debussy was one of the most influential composers upon Ravel... who orchestrated several of the older composer's works. They also shared an admiration for many of the same composers: Tchaikovsky, César Franck, Gabriel Faure, Jules Massenet, Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Mussorgsky... and of course the inescapable Richard Wagner. Debussy was also open to influences from far afield, such as Javanese Gamelan and the radical new works of Stravinsky.

I admit to not having listened to much in terms of R-K's operas (except some excerpts on youtube) but if we are talking non-operatic material we are not even remotely close here. R-K never reached anywhere near Ravel's sublime level of craftsmanship.

Russian opera, unfortunately, is a world yet to be fully grasped in the West. Rimsky-Korsakov is largely known in the West for his orchestral compositions, suites from his operas, and his orchestrations of music by Mussorgsky (among others). One could argue who was the better craftsman in terms of orchestration, but ultimately both Rimsky-Korsakov and Ravel are known as masters of the craft. If Ravel is more polished (and that is open to debate), Rimsky-Korsakov must be given his due in developing, as Harold Sconberg wrote a music that "opens up a delightful new world, the world of the Russian East, the world of supernaturalism and the exotic, the world of Slavic pantheism and vanished races. Genuine poetry suffuses them, and they are scored with brilliance and resource." This musical world was essential to the development of Debussy and Ravel... among others.

If Rimsky-Korsakov is known in the West for his orchestral compositions, he is known in Russia as an operatic composer. Having composed some 15+ operas (including major works such as _The Maid of Pskov, The Snow Maiden, Christmas Eve, Sadko, The Tale of Tsar Saltan, Kashchey the Deathless, The Invisible City of Kitezh_, and _The Golden Cockerel_ or _Le coq d'or_), to dismiss Rimsky-Korsakov's imprtance without serious consideration of the operas is akin to judging Richard Strauss, Rossini, Bellini, or Verdi without considering their operas. I am seriously glad that Galery Gergiev has put forth so much effort in bringing many of these operas... as well as those by other Russian composers... to light.

By the way... the Debussy/Ravel placements are in no way my biggest disagreement with the current standings. I mean seriously... what the hell is Mendelssohn doing in front of Mahler, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, Monteverdi, or Verdi, for God's sake?! I can sort of accept Dvorak's current ranking... and Chopin is almost to be expected... but Mendelssohn!!??


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Debussy- 10 pts.
2. Mozart- 9 pts.
3. Mahler- 8 pts.
4. Tchaikovsky- 7 pts.
5. Rimsky-Korsakov- 6pts.
6. Gabriel Faure- 5 pts.
7. Verdi- 4 pts.
8. Vivaldi- 3 pts.
9. Biber- 2 pts
10. Monteverdi- 1 pt.

Ravel -3 pts.


----------



## Arsakes

Majority of Debussy's works are like sonatas ... Ravel is better simply because of his orchestral works.

10 - Dvořák
9 - Brahms
8 - Beethoven
7 - Haydn
6 - Handel
5 - Sibelius
4 - Ravel
3 - Ippolitov Ivanov
2 - Mussorgsky
1 - Rimski-Korsakov

-3 Debussy


----------



## tdc

StlukesguildOhio said:


> but his ouevre is rather limited in scale... something that Ravel himself recognized as preventing his own inclusion among the top ranks of composers.


This sounds like Ravel modesty, though its news to me that he even said this. What did Strauss call himself a '_first-class second-rate composer_' or something? Its not surprising that many of the greats of the 20th century felt like second rate greats standing in the shadows of figures like Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Though as is common knowledge amount of works composed is NOT equal to greatness. I don't think there is anything second rate about Ravel in retrospect, and I'm fairly certain you feel the same about R Strauss.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> By the way... the Debussy/Ravel placements are in no way my biggest disagreement with the current standings. I mean seriously... what the hell is Mendelssohn doing in front of Mahler, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, Monteverdi, or Verdi, for God's sake?! I can sort of accept Dvorak's current ranking... and Chopin is almost to be expected... but Mendelssohn!!??


:lol:

I personally would cringe at lists that don't have Mendelssohn in the top 15. I feel he was a greater composer than Mahler or Tchaikovsky. His works speak for themselves. Any questioning of Mendelssohn's greatness I feel is only a result of the West's over-emphasis on musical innovation over perfection of craft. Though as you list your preferences I begin to suspect that you have leanings towards later Romanticism, where I do not.


----------



## Sid James

tdc said:


> ...Any questioning of Mendelssohn's greatness I feel is only a result of the West's over-emphasis on musical innovation over perfection of craft...


Well Mendelssohn did at least some innovating, but I didn't find out about it here but by reading things like books on music and liner notes of cd's and vinyls, that sort of thing. & of course just by listening to his music. An obvious one, when one thinks about it, is getting rid of orchestral introductions to concertos. Mendelssohn just gets straight down to business in his concertos, no mucking around. Also, how his piano concertos - the first one at least, I think the second one as well(?) - have the three movements go without a break. Same as Liszt did in his PC's. I think it's a matter of perception, eg. Mendelssohn's music doesn't have say the brooding quality and kind of hair-rasing apect of say Berlioz's. But I'd say Mendelssohn was more influential than guys like Berlioz, who for all his greatness, was more or less a one-off (eg. who in France could be named his successor, or even a successor of sorts?).

I could go on. The _back to Bach _thing was started by Mendelssohn & I think as well as Schumann, to some degree (them both setting up the music academy in Leipzig). These guys did a lot for music, in their own time and beyond. I'm kind of bored of superficial assessments of these great men, and these seem to dominate threads like this. Don't know whether to laugh or cry, honestly.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Though as you list your preferences I begin to suspect that you have leanings towards later Romanticism, where I do not.

Actually, I have no problem with Schubert or Schumann ranked among the top 10. Mendelssohn simply didn't produce enough first rate music IMO. I'll grant you the _Midsummer's Night Dream_, a few symphonies... (but none that rival Mahler, Bruckner, or Schubert's last two), the Octet, a great violin concerto, a couple of songs (rarely approaching Schumann let alone Schubert or Mahler's orchestral songs), the Songs without Words (lovely... but I find Schumann more poetic), and the oratorio, _Elijah_. That's about it. A few more things (piano concertos and trios and some other chamber works...) I seriously can't see him ranking higher than Mahler, Debussy, Monteverdi (the man virtually invented opera and the Baroque!), Tchaikovsky, and a good many others... as much as I enjoy listening to him.


----------



## Turangalîla

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Ravel may have produced a good number of perfect gems, but his ouevre is rather limited in scale... something that Ravel himself recognized as preventing his own inclusion among the top ranks of composers. Debussy, beyond have produced far more music, is far more important historically


The problem with Ravel was that he wrote very few large pieces of music. He wrote no symphonies, and his largest work is, I would say, his Piano Concerto in G. I am not denying that Debussy wrote more music than Ravel. There are many composers who wrote thousands of hours worth of music that receive very little recognition today. Webern's entire output fits onto only six CDs. The size of a composers' output is a very small factor when you are considering how great they are.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Debussy was one of the most influential composers upon Ravel... who orchestrated several of the older composer's works.


Ravel also borrowed many harmonies from Debussy. However, Debussy was born 13 years before him! Did Mozart "borrow" much from Haydn? Of course! Yet most consider Mozart to be the greater because of what he did with the styles that already existed. Ravel did some innovating too, you know. While Debussy was a revolutionary figure in terms of harmony and innovation, he certainly did not "invent" most of those harmonies. In fact, Liszt is often credited with being the inventor of impressionism (listen to his later works). Keep in mind that this is a _generalization_ (there are definitely exceptions), but I think that Debussy mainly stuck to the same sort of mood in most of his writing. He was very good at the watery, floating, ethereal, atmospheric, 7th and 9th chord-y style. He could definitely be passionate, biting, or very tender, but in general (very much in general), his music sounds the same. Ravel, while mastering the art of so-called "impressionism" (in my opinion), was also able to create countless other pieces all with individual, distinct characters. He could create any mood that he liked. He was so versatile that he cannot be pinned down to any "one" style of music, even though all his music has his unique brand. I am glad that Ravel orchestrated many of Debussy's works-Debussy was a very fine composer! Ravel also orchestrated the works of many other fine composers. His orchestration abilities, in my opinion, surpass those of Mahler, Tchaikovsky, and Strauss, and certainly those of Debussy.


----------



## Turangalîla

*WE HAVE MORE WINNERS!

OUR SECOND AND THIRD PLACE WINNERS ARE...*

(Drum roll, please...)

*2. WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART!*

View attachment 5561


*3. LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN!*

View attachment 5562


*Mozart finished with 475 points, Beethoven 468, but Mozart reached the finish line first. Brahms and Schubert, the next litter, are only 100 points away from reaching the security level, and they are only seven points apart! Keep voting, folks!*


----------



## Turangalîla

Points update: (Sorry, folks, but I'm only doing up to the top 50 tonight. The majority of my time is spent calculating the under-50th-place composers, and I'm exhausted. You'll get those tomorrow.)

1. Bach - PERMANENT #1...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

2. Mozart - PERMANENT #2...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

3. Beethoven - PERMANENT #3...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

4. Brahms - 355

5. Schubert - 348

6. Wagner - 315

7. Haydn - 289

8. Schumann - 243

9. Dvořák - 238

10. Mahler - 237

11. Debussy - 233

12. Mendelssohn - 231

13. Handel - 230

14. Chopin - 223
14. Ravel - 223

16. Stravinsky - 187

17. Tchaikovsky - 179

18. Strauss - 159
18. Bartók - 159

20. Sibelius - 136

21. Shostakovich - 129

22. Liszt - 124

23. Prokofiev - 113

24. Messiaen - 112

25. Verdi - 106

26. Mussorgsky - 104

27. Monteverdi - 84

28. Rachmaninoff - 83

29. Schoenberg - 81

30. Janáček - 77

31. Nielsen - 75

32. Scriabin - 73

33. Berlioz - 69

34. Bruckner - 61

35. Elgar - 57

36. Gesualdo - 53

37. Vaughan Williams - 51

38. Fauré - 49

39. Britten - 48

40. Webern - 46

41. Vivaldi - 45
41. Ligeti - 45

43. Grieg - 43

44. Berg - 39
44. Barber - 39

46. Josquin - 36

47. Schnittke - 35

48. Saint-Saëns - 33

49. Hindemith - 31

50. Puccini - 30


----------



## science

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Did Mozart "borrow" much from Haydn? Of course! Yet most consider Mozart to be the greater because of what he did with the styles that already existed.


Of course before long the young Mozart was influencing the mature Haydn.

Anyway, I'm not prepared to defend this dichotomy in general, but I find Ravel more pleasing emotionally, and Debussy more interesting intellectually.


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Haydn
9 Wagner
8 Tchaikovsky
7 Schumann
6 Stravinsky
5 Mahler
4 Berlioz
3 Verdi
2 Rossini
1 Barber


----------



## emiellucifuge

10. Wagner
9. Debussy
8. Stravinsky
7. Liszt

-3 Schubert


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 pts - Nielsen, C
9 pts - Alfven, H
8 pts - Arnold, M
7 pts - Haydn, FJ
6 pts - Elgar, E
5 pts - Schumann, R
4 pts - Brahms, J
3 pts - Monteverdi, C
2 pts - Vaughan Williams, R
1 pt - Spohr, L

By the way, the above discussions on Debussy/Ravel/Mendelssohn bring home the point once again that this poll has a somewhat confused objective. On the one hand, we have people who are incensed that one composer is ranked higher than another (or others), and then we get the counter-arguments usually focusing on legitimizing the choices made.

On the other hand, I continue to see this poll as more of a "*who do TC posters enjoy listening to the most*"? With that viewpoint, I'm not a bit incensed that someone I personally consider to be "great" isn't ranked higher on the list. (As I've said before, I'm more than willing to acknowledge other composers than the ones I have chosen are "greater" than the ones I *have* chosen. That doesn't mean I enjoy listening to them more.)

The big problem is that the title of the thread says one thing, and the OP says another. I wish we could either rename the thread or change the OP. If this turns into a true "Greatest" poll, expect to see a much different daily listing from me. (Actually, I'll probably just bow out gracefully.  )


----------



## Sonata

I agree with you Vesteralen, I see it as one about enjoyment of listening too.


----------



## StevenOBrien

It seems to be a law of nature that every top list of composers will always have Bach, Beethoven and Mozart in the top 3 in some order. 

10 - Chopin
9 - Mendelssohn
8 - Schubert
7 - Handel
6 - Ravel
5 - Bizet
4 - Satie
3 - Hummel
2 - Franz Danzi
1 - Philip Glass

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Trout

Mahler - 10
Berlioz - 9
Shostakovich - 8
Bruckner - 7
Prokofiev - 6
Verdi - 5
Vaughan Williams - 4
Borodin - 3
Monteverdi - 2
Stravinsky - 1

Arnold -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Mahler - 10
Prokofiev - 9
Ligeti - 8
Stravinsky - 7
Grieg - 6
Reich - 5
Adams - 4
Glass - 3
Crumb - 2
Sibelius - 1


----------



## mmsbls

Brahms - 10
Schubert - 9
Wagner - 8
Dvorak - 7
Haydn - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Handel - 4
Tchaikovsky - 3
Mahler - 2
Schumann - 1

-3 for Bartok 

Chopin -3


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Chopin
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Haydn


----------



## Klavierspieler

mmsbls said:


> -3 for Bartok
> 
> Chopin -3


----------



## peeyaj

10 points - Schubert

9 - Wagner

8 - Haydn

7 - Schumann

6- Berlioz

5- Grieg

4 - Tchaikovsky

3- Schoenberg

2 - Telemann

1- Bartok

-3 points - Brahms


----------



## Sonata

Mahler-10
Mendelssohn-9
Haydn-8
Dvorak-7
Schubert-6
Brahms-5
Puccini-4
Prokoviev-3
Monteverdi-2


----------



## peeyaj

Would someone make Franz in the top 4 so more or less we have the same composers on the top 4 list?


----------



## Air

Handel better finish top 8.

Handel - 10
Scarlatti - 9
Prokofiev - 8
Varese - 7
Medtner - 6
Rameau - 5
Ligeti - 4
Wagner - 3
Bartok - 2
Verdi - 1

-3 Dvorak


----------



## StevenOBrien

mmsbls said:


> -3 for Bartok
> 
> Chopin -3


Did you make a mistake?


----------



## Muddy

Schubert-10

-3 Brahms


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10

Schoenberg: -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Schubert +10, Brahms -3.


----------



## pjang23

10 Brahms
9 Debussy
8 Palestrina (only has 28 points)
7 Stravinsky
6 Schubert
5 Handel
4 Prokofiev
3 Strauss
2 Tchaikovsky
1 Verdi
-3 Wagner


----------



## mleghorn

I've never heard of Robert Simpson. I must check him out.


----------



## Couchie

Wagner: 10

pjang23: -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 - Wagner
9 - Haydn
8 - Verdi
7 - Bartok
6 - Tchaikovsky
5 - Barber
4 - Berlioz
3 - Elgar
2 - Purcell
1 - Schumann


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10-Haydn
9-Chopin
8-Brahms
7-Dvorak
6-Schubert
5-Mahler
4-Liszt
3-Debussy
2-Handel
1-Tchaikovsky

-3 Schumann


----------



## TrazomGangflow

mmsbls said:


> Brahms - 10
> Schubert - 9
> Wagner - 8
> Dvorak - 7
> Haydn - 6
> Mendelssohn - 5
> Handel - 4
> Tchaikovsky - 3
> Mahler - 2
> Schumann - 1
> 
> -3 for Bartok
> 
> Chopin -3


I think he means + 10 for Chopin, - 3 for Bartok


----------



## Klavierspieler

TrazomGangflow said:


> I think he means + 10 for Chopin, - 3 for Bartok


And he got Brahms and Schumann mixed up.


----------



## mmsbls

mmsbls said:


> Brahms - 10
> Schubert - 9
> Wagner - 8
> Dvorak - 7
> Haydn - 6
> Mendelssohn - 5
> Handel - 4
> Tchaikovsky - 3
> Mahler - 2
> Schumann - 1
> 
> -3 for Bartok
> 
> Chopin -3


This vote might be a bit clearer. Sorry for the silliness.

Brahms - 10
Schubert - 9
Wagner - 8
Dvorak - 7
Haydn - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Handel - 4
Tchaikovsky - 3
Mahler - 2
Schumann - 1

-3 for Bartok


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Schubert
8: Monteverdi
7: Bartok
6: Debussy
5: Schnittke
4: Mendelssohn
3: Gluck
2: D. Scarlatti
1: Villa-Lobos


----------



## Arsakes

10. Brahms
9. Dvorak
8. Haydn
7. Handel
6. Sibelius
5. Liszt
4. Berlioz
3. Wagner
2. Schumann
1. Ravel

-3 Schubert

(Brahms > Schubert)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Schubert +10
2. Debussy +9
3. Wagner +8
4. Faure +7
5. Mahler +6
6. Monteverdi +5
7. Tchaikovsky +4
8. Handel +3
9. Haydn + 2
10. Bruckner +1

Brahms -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

(Brahms > Schubert)

Only to the hearing impaired.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Schubert · 10 points
Mahler · 9 points

Graf Ludwig Ferdinand Zwiebaecklein von Oberkapaunenhain the Elder · -3 points


----------



## Muddy

Schubert - 10
Mahler - 9

-3 Brahms


----------



## science

10 Brahms
9 Haydn
8 Dvorak 
7 Debussy
6 Chopin
5 Stravinsky
4 Bartok 
3 Shostakovich
2 Liszt
1 Schumann
-3 Schobert

It'd be better if we didn't have to get our agendas all involved in this kind of thing, but I suppose that's inevitable in this fallen world.


----------



## ZombieBeethoven

Oh, drat! After reading 21 pages of this thread I discover that I can't vote for Mozart or Beethoven. What is the point then? Might as well just take a bath and go to bed...


10 Monteverdi 
9 Stavinski (should be Mozart, but nooo stupid rules... continues muttering to himself)
8 Brahms
7 St Saens (should be Beethoven continues another semi-audible tirade)
6 Mendelssohn
5 Glazunov
4 Wagner (no, not Siegfried or Prunella (his second cousin, thrice removed))
3 Villa-Lobos
2 Dvorak
1 Prokofiev


----------



## BeatOven

10 - L! v! Beethoven!
9 - W. A. Mozart
8 - Brahms
7 - Tchaickovsky
6 - J. S. Bach
5 - Mahler
4 - Chopin
3 - Schumann


----------



## Very Senior Member

Schubert +10, Brahms -3


----------



## Arsakes

I sense the Schubert's Conspiracy here :scold:


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 pts - Schumann, R
9 pts - Brahms, J
8 pts - Nielsen, C
7 pts - Alfven, H
6 pts - Mendelssohn, Felix
5 pts - Haydn, FJ
4 pts - Arnold, M
3 pts - Vaughan Williams, R
2 pts - Elgar, E
1 pt - Delius, F

Schumann rises to the top today because I've really been enjoying the Gardiner set of symphonies the last two days.


----------



## emiellucifuge

10. Wagner
9. Lutoslawski
8. BA zimmermann
7. Stockhausen
6. Berio
5. KA Hartmann
4. Henze


----------



## pjang23

10 Brahms
9 Stravinsky
8 Handel
7 Palestrina
6 Debussy
5 Arvo Pärt
4 Strauss
3 Josquin
2 Weber
1 Alkan
-3 Wagner


----------



## Trout

10 - Vivaldi
9 - Vaughan Williams
8 - Prokofiev
7 - Bruckner
6 - Mahler
5 - Strauss
4 - Josquin
3 - Stravinsky
2 - Berlioz
1 - Borodin

-3 - Arnold


----------



## mmsbls

Brahms - 10
Schubert - 9
Wagner - 8
Dvorak - 7
Haydn - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Handel - 4
Tchaikovsky - 3
Mahler - 2
Schumann - 1

-3 for Bartok


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 - R. Schumann
9 - L. Janacek
8 - Chopin
7 - Bartok
6 - Britten
5 - Medtner
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Hindemith
2 - Stravinsky
1 - Gesualdo

-3 Haydn


----------



## Turangalîla

*AND WE HAVE ANOTHER WINNER!*

COMPOSER NO. 4 IS...

(drum roll please)

*FRANZ SCHUBERT!*









(Don't ask me how his signature even remotely resembles his name...)

Schubert finished with 465 points, and well ahead of Brahms, I might add, who has not even hit 440! Keep voting everyone!


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Stravinsky
9. Bartok
8. Schoenberg
7. Webern
6. Berg
5. Shostakovich
4. Part
3. Vaughan Williams
2. Ravel
1. Debussy

-3 Brahms


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Mahler : 10
Brahms : 9

Johann Flavius Maria de Blasoir-Demarque III. : -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Chopin
9 - Mendelssohn
8 - Handel
7 - Ravel
6 - Glass
5 - Bizet
4 - Clementi
3 - Schumann
2 - Hummel
1 - Alkan


-3 - Brahms (Sorry, I hate to do this, but I really feel there are others that deserve to be higher up than him)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

-3 - Brahms (Sorry, I hate to do this, but I really feel there are others that deserve to be higher up than him)

Who, if I may ask? IMO there are only two possible composers (outside the 4 already ranked above him) that I would place above Brahms. I am no great "Brahmsian", but I cannot ignore the wealth of his oeuvre... especially his chamber music.


----------



## Couchie

Wagner: 10


----------



## Couchie

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Who, if I may ask? IMO there are only two possible composers (outside the 4 already ranked above him) that I would place above Brahms. I am no great "Brahmsian", but I cannot ignore the wealth of his oeuvre... especially his chamber music.


- Wagner when he was 12
- Schobert
- A chest of silverware dropped down a flight of stairs onto a cat


----------



## Turangalîla

My vote from yesterday:

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schumann - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Berg - 5
Webern - 4
Chopin - 3
Gesualdo - 2
Mendelssohn - 1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

A vote from yesterday? So I can go back and add a vote from a week ago when I missed a day?


----------



## Turangalîla

StlukesguildOhio said:


> A vote from yesterday? So I can go back and add a vote from a week ago when I missed a day?


The creator of the thread gets special privileges 

Actually, I was gone and unable to vote yesterday, but I wanted to, so...


----------



## Turangalîla

*NEW SCORING METHOD:* I am actually a highschool student and am under unbelievable stress this week. I have final exams and piano competitions galore. I am beginning to have no time to update the scores  SO...can everyone copy and paste the rankings list and add their own points? If it's only for yourself, it won't take very long, I PROMISE 

I will be back every so often to check up on it.

*1. Bach - PERMANENT #1...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

2. Mozart - PERMANENT #2...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

3. Beethoven - PERMANENT #3...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

4. Schubert - PERMANENT #4...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM*

5. Brahms - 445

6. Wagner - 411

7. Haydn - 372

8. Mahler - 326

9. Schumann - 308

10. Handel - 288

11. Mendelssohn - 285

12. Dvořák - 282

13. Chopin - 281
13. Debussy - 281

15. Ravel - 259

16. Stravinsky - 256

17. Tchaikovsky - 217

18. Bartók - 197

19. Strauss - 171

20. Shostakovich - 153

21. Prokofiev - 152

22. Sibelius - 143

23. Liszt - 142

24. Verdi - 124

25. Messiaen - 121

26. Monteverdi - 114

27. Mussorgsky - 112

28. Berlioz - 98

29. Schoenberg - 95
29. Janáček - 95

31. Nielsen - 93

32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83

34. Bruckner - 76

35. Vaughan Williams - 72

36. Elgar - 68

37. Britten - 60

38. Gesualdo - 57
38. Webern - 57
38. Ligeti - 57

41. Fauré - 56

42. Vivaldi - 55

43. Grieg - 54

44. Berg - 50

45. Alfven - 47

46. Barber - 45

47. Josquin - 43
47. Palestrina - 43

49. Schnittke - 40
49. Saint-Saëns - 40

51. Bizet - 39

52. Hindemith - 37

53. Medtner - 36

54. Puccini - 34

55. Satie - 32
55. Varèse - 32

57. Arnold - 29

58. Villa-Lobos - 28
58. Scarlatti - 28

60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27

62. Glass - 25

63. Lully - 23

64. Stockhausen - 22
64. Corelli - 22

66. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
66. Ives - 21
66. Weber - 21
66. Penderecki - 21
66. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
66. Gluck - 21

72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18

74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17

76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16

80. Biber - 15

81. Takemitsu - 14
81. Tallis - 14
81. Adams - 14

84. Bellini - 13
84. Rimsky-Korsakov - 13

86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12

88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11

91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10

95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9

99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8

102. Albeniz - 7

103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6

108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5

114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4

120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3

123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2 
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2

133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1

139. Czerny - -3

140. Schobert - -8


----------



## StevenOBrien

StlukesguildOhio said:


> -3 - Brahms (Sorry, I hate to do this, but I really feel there are others that deserve to be higher up than him)
> 
> Who, if I may ask? IMO there are only two possible composers (outside the 4 already ranked above him) that I would place above Brahms. I am no great "Brahmsian", but I cannot ignore the wealth of his oeuvre... especially his chamber music.


It's really a subjective thing. I greatly respect him as a composer, but I can rarely connect with any of his music. I really want to, but it never works out. Even though Chopin couldn't orchestrate his way out of a cardboard box, his music has done more for me than any other composer except Mozart, so I'd happily place him above Brahms. Same with Handel and Mendelssohn, and perhaps Schumann too. Brahms definitely deserves a spot in the top 10 though, and it looks like he's bound to get #5 regardless of my -3, but I can still make my protest!


----------



## trazom

10- Wagner

-3 Brahms


----------



## Muddy

Couchie said:


> - Wagner when he was 12
> - Schobert
> - A chest of silverware dropped down a flight of stairs onto a cat


While I disagree with you, thanks for the biggest laugh I have had all week!


----------



## Muddy

And now that Schubert is in his rightful place, time to go to bat for Brahms! We don't want Wagner in the top five.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

*1. Bach - PERMANENT #1...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

2. Mozart - PERMANENT #2...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

3. Beethoven - PERMANENT #3...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM

4. Schubert - PERMANENT #4...DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM*

*5. Brahms - 445 -3 per trazom, -3 stlukesguildohio= 439*

*6. Wagner - 411 + 10 per trazom, + 10 stlukesguildohio= 431*

*7. Haydn - 372 + 9 stlukesguildohio= 382*

*8. Mahler - 326 +6 stlukesguildohio= 332*

9. Schumann - 308

*10. Handel - 288 +7 stlukesguildohio= 295*

11. Mendelssohn - 285

12. Dvořák - 282

13. Chopin - 281
*13. Debussy - 281 + 8 stlukesguildohio= 289*

15. Ravel - 259

16. Stravinsky - 256

*17. Tchaikovsky - 217 +5 stlukesguildohio= 222*

18. Bartók - 197

*19. Strauss - 171 +4stlukesguildohio= 175*

20. Shostakovich - 153

21. Prokofiev - 152

22. Sibelius - 143

23. Liszt - 142

24. Verdi - 124

25. Messiaen - 121

26. Monteverdi - 114

27. Mussorgsky - 112

28. Berlioz - 98

29. Schoenberg - 95
29. Janáček - 95

31. Nielsen - 93

32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83

34. Bruckner - 76

35. Vaughan Williams - 72

36. Elgar - 68

37. Britten - 60

38. Gesualdo - 57
38. Webern - 57
38. Ligeti - 57

*41. Fauré - 56 +3 stlukesguildohio= 59*

42. Vivaldi - 55

43. Grieg - 54

44. Berg - 50

45. Alfven - 47

46. Barber - 45

47. Josquin - 43
47. Palestrina - 43

49. Schnittke - 40
49. Saint-Saëns - 40

51. Bizet - 39

52. Hindemith - 37

53. Medtner - 36

*54. Puccini - 34 +2 stlukesguildohio = 36*

55. Satie - 32
55. Varèse - 32

57. Arnold - 29

58. Villa-Lobos - 28
58. Scarlatti - 28

60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27

62. Glass - 25

63. Lully - 23

64. Stockhausen - 22
64. Corelli - 22

66. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
66. Ives - 21
66. Weber - 21
66. Penderecki - 21
66. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
*66. Gluck - 21 +1 stlukesguildohio= 22*

72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18

74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17

76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16

80. Biber - 15

81. Takemitsu - 14
81. Tallis - 14
81. Adams - 14

84. Bellini - 13
84. Rimsky-Korsakov - 13

86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12

88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11

91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10

95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9

99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8

102. Albeniz - 7

103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6

108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5

114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4

120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3

123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2 
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2

133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1

139. Czerny - -3

140. Schobert - -8


----------



## science

I've encountered the anti-Brahms agenda in every corner of the internet where classical music is discussed. In my own personal voyage of classical music discover, Brahms was the third composer I really loved (first was Mozart, then Chopin). Of course one never really gets over that kind of love, and I was initially very surprised to find him slandered and libeled. As it continued month after month, year after, and discussion board after discussion board, I've been forced to worry it over, until I now think I can diagnose the cause of this disease, and maybe even offer a cure.

It comes from fans of Wagner, fans of Tchaikovsky, fans of Schubert, fans of Bruckner, fans of Mahler, fans of Schumann - perhaps anyone who has a composer nearly but not quite among the trinity of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven. The problem for them is, it often looks like Brahms is next in line.

Another way of saying this is that an ordinary fan of classical music (as opposed to, say, a famous conductor) nearly delegitimizes themselves if they don't appreciate Bach, Mozart or Beethoven. Brahms is the most highly regarded composer who it's truly safe to attack.

The least rabid tend to be Schubert fans, perhaps because they realize that he really is generally considered approximately equal to Brahms - some would say greater, some would say not quite as great, but the conclusion of the whole matter is that the Schubert fans suffer less insecurity and express themselves more civilly.

I can't say definitely who the most rabid are. I've seen some pretty impressive rants by Wagnerians, and some really vicious stuff from Tchaikovskyites. Of course there is history on both sides.

It's interesting that Brahms is blamed for contradictory reasons. One problem supposed afflicting Brahms is that most of his music was harmonically and structurally conservative for its time. And of course for fans of the musical styles of the Baroque, Classical or Modern periods, his music is much too melodramatic. But he suffers from essentially the opposite problems as well: he was adopted by Schoenberg as a predecessor, and of course Schoenberg is one of the most reviled composers of all time, by some people, that is: conservative, romantic listeners, more interested in emotionally manipulative melodrama than the polyphonic structures favored by Brahms, Schoenberg, and their twentieth century academic heirs. I've even heard him blamed for not having a sense of humor.

The cure for all this is to get over your agendas and just _listen to the music_. Stop worrying about rankings, traditions, influences, whatever.

And of course for Brahms' fans there is nothing to worry about. The German Requiem, the piano quintet, the violin and cello sonatas, the violin concerto, the piano concertos, the symphonies, the late piano works, the piano trios and quartets, the string quintets and sextets - this body of music will be loved as long as there is any music by ordinary listeners, by anyone unburdened by agenda, anyone not trying to win distinction on a message board with daring countercultural pronouncements. Let them tear down all the monuments, vote against him relentlessly on polls, slander his music with all the creativity they can summon - all is in vain, the music remains.


----------



## science

10 Brahms
9 Debussy
8 Stravinsky
7 Bartok
6 Shostakovich
5 Liszt
4 Verdi
3 Monteverdi
2 Mussorgksy
1 Janacek
-3 Wagner


5. Brahms - 439 --> 449 
6. Wagner - 431 --> 428 
7. Haydn - 382
8. Mahler - 332
9. Schumann - 308
10. Debussy - 289 --> 298
11. Handel - 295
12. Mendelssohn - 285
13. Dvořák - 282
14. Chopin - 281
15. Stravinsky - 256 --> 264
16. Ravel - 259
17. Tchaikovsky - 222
18. Bartók - 197 --> 204
19. Strauss - 175
20. Shostakovich - 153 --> 159
21. Prokofiev - 152
22. Liszt - 142 --> 147
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 124 --> 128
25. Messiaen - 121
26. Monteverdi - 114 --> 117
27. Mussorgsky - 112 --> 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 95 --> 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83
34. Bruckner - 76
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Britten - 60
38. Gesualdo - 57
38. Webern - 57
38. Ligeti - 57
41. Fauré - 59
42. Vivaldi - 55
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Alfven - 47
46. Barber - 45
47. Josquin - 43
47. Palestrina - 43
49. Schnittke - 40
49. Saint-Saëns - 40
51. Bizet - 39
52. Hindemith - 37
53. Medtner - 36
54. Puccini - 36
55. Satie - 32
55. Varèse - 32
57. Arnold - 29
58. Villa-Lobos - 28
58. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27 
62. Glass - 25
63. Lully - 23
64. Stockhausen - 22
64. Corelli - 22
64. Gluck - 22
67. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
67. Ives - 21
67. Weber - 21
67. Penderecki - 21
67. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
81. Takemitsu - 14
81. Tallis - 14
81. Adams - 14
84. Bellini - 13
84. Rimsky-Korsakov - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9 
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
102. Albeniz - 7
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2 
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1 
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## Muddy

Brahms +10

-3 Wagner

I would probably be pushing Haydn for 5th if he had a shot. As it is, I can't stomach Wagner.


----------



## Muddy

Science, very nice post. I have always loved Brahms and I have also been somewhat mystified by the animosity. Over the last few months, though, I have been listening to Schubert a great deal and it has been a joyous experience. I love Schubert because his music sings like no other music. He produced so much in such a short period of time. But Brahms is great and arguably a top 5 composer. 

Plus, Wagner was such an abominable ***!

Though Haydn...that composer deserves some love!


----------



## Couchie

science said:


> I've encountered the anti-Brahms agenda in every corner of the internet where classical music is discussed. In my own personal voyage of classical music discover, Brahms was the third composer I really loved (first was Mozart, then Chopin). Of course one never really gets over that kind of love, and I was initially very surprised to find him slandered and libeled. As it continued month after month, year after, and discussion board after discussion board, I've been forced to worry it over, until I now think I can diagnose the cause of this disease, and maybe even offer a cure.
> 
> It comes from fans of Wagner, fans of Tchaikovsky, fans of Schubert, fans of Bruckner, fans of Mahler, fans of Schumann - perhaps anyone who has a composer nearly but not quite among the trinity of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven. The problem for them is, it often looks like Brahms is next in line.
> 
> Another way of saying this is that an ordinary fan of classical music (as opposed to, say, a famous conductor) nearly delegitimizes themselves if they don't appreciate Bach, Mozart or Beethoven. Brahms is the most highly regarded composer who it's truly safe to attack.
> 
> The least rabid tend to be Schubert fans, perhaps because they realize that he really is generally considered approximately equal to Brahms - some would say greater, some would say not quite as great, but the conclusion of the whole matter is that the Schubert fans suffer less insecurity and express themselves more civilly.
> 
> I can't say definitely who the most rabid are. I've seen some pretty impressive rants by Wagnerians, and some really vicious stuff from Tchaikovskyites. Of course there is history on both sides.
> 
> It's interesting that Brahms is blamed for contradictory reasons. One problem supposed afflicting Brahms is that most of his music was harmonically and structurally conservative for its time. And of course for fans of the musical styles of the Baroque, Classical or Modern periods, his music is much too melodramatic. But he suffers from essentially the opposite problems as well: he was adopted by Schoenberg as a predecessor, and of course Schoenberg is one of the most reviled composers of all time, by some people, that is: conservative, romantic listeners, more interested in emotionally manipulative melodrama than the polyphonic structures favored by Brahms, Schoenberg, and their twentieth century academic heirs. I've even heard him blamed for not having a sense of humor.
> 
> The cure for all this is to get over your agendas and just _listen to the music_. Stop worrying about rankings, traditions, influences, whatever.
> 
> And of course for Brahms' fans there is nothing to worry about. The German Requiem, the piano quintet, the violin and cello sonatas, the violin concerto, the piano concertos, the symphonies, the late piano works, the piano trios and quartets, the string quintets and sextets - this body of music will be loved as long as there is any music by ordinary listeners, by anyone unburdened by agenda, anyone not trying to win distinction on a message board with daring countercultural pronouncements. Let them tear down all the monuments, vote against him relentlessly on polls, slander his music with all the creativity they can summon - all is in vain, the music remains.


And some of us just find Brahms dry as hell.


----------



## StevenOBrien

Looks like Brahms gets #5!

*5. Brahms - 459 - PERMANENT #5, DO NOT VOTE AGAIN*
6. Wagner - 425 (-3 from Muddy) 
7. Haydn - 382
8. Mahler - 332
9. Schumann - 308
10. Debussy - 298
11. Handel - 295
12. Mendelssohn - 285
13. Dvořák - 282
14. Chopin - 281
15. Stravinsky - 264
16. Ravel - 259
17. Tchaikovsky - 222
18. Bartók - 204
19. Strauss - 175
20. Shostakovich - 159
21. Prokofiev - 152
22. Liszt - 147
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 128
25. Messiaen - 121
26. Monteverdi - 117
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83
34. Bruckner - 76
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Britten - 60
38. Gesualdo - 57
38. Webern - 57
38. Ligeti - 57
41. Fauré - 59
42. Vivaldi - 55
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Alfven - 47
46. Barber - 45
47. Josquin - 43
47. Palestrina - 43
49. Schnittke - 40
49. Saint-Saëns - 40
51. Bizet - 39
52. Hindemith - 37
53. Medtner - 36
54. Puccini - 36
55. Satie - 32
55. Varèse - 32
57. Arnold - 29
58. Villa-Lobos - 28
58. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27 
62. Glass - 25
63. Lully - 23
64. Stockhausen - 22
64. Corelli - 22
64. Gluck - 22
67. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
67. Ives - 21
67. Weber - 21
67. Penderecki - 21
67. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
81. Takemitsu - 14
81. Tallis - 14
81. Adams - 14
84. Bellini - 13
84. Rimsky-Korsakov - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9 
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
102. Albeniz - 7
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2 
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1 
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## Couchie

StevenOBrien said:


> Looks like Brahms gets #5!
> 
> *5. Brahms - 459 - PERMANENT #5, DO NOT VOTE AGAIN*
> 6. Wagner - 425 (-3 from Muddy)


This is the part where I slice a hen open and curse you all with impotency.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I've encountered the anti-Brahms agenda in every corner of the internet where classical music is discussed... I was initially very surprised to find him slandered and libeled. As it continued month after month, year after, and discussion board after discussion board, I've been forced to worry it over, until I now think I can diagnose the cause of this disease, and maybe even offer a cure.

What have you been smoking? Outside of Schoenberg, who gets blamed for "destroying" music with his rejection of traditional tonality, and perhaps Cage and Stockhausen (and really... how well known are they?) Wagner is easily the single most vilified figure in the whole of classical music. Most of those who are anti-Wagner cannot even be honest about it and admit that A. They hate opera (notice how low Verdi, Bellini, Rossini, and Donizetti rank) or B. they simply cannot click with Wagner's music. No... most of the time there are these ridiculous external justifications: A. Wagner was antisemitic (So was Chopin... even more so); B. Hitler liked Wagner (He also liked Beethoven); C. Wagner was a jerk (Yeah? So what? Gesualdo is currently rated among the highest of pre-Baroque composers in spite of his rather gruesome rap-sheet; Mozart was a twit; Beethoven could be a raging a**hole, and Brahms himself was a real prick to any number of younger composers who turned to him for support). Wagner will almost certainly come in just behind Brahms in spite of the fact that there is a rabid anti-Wagner clique here... and in spite of the fact that Wagner composed almost exclusively for opera... one of the least popular musical genres... even among classical music fans.


----------



## Chopinator

Liszt - 10 points
Chopin - 8 points
Dvorak - 6 points
Wagner - 4 points
Rimsky-Korsakov - 2 points
Debussy - *-3 points*

Liszt really needs more love


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I've encountered the anti-Brahms agenda in every corner of the internet where classical music is discussed... I was initially very surprised to find him slandered and libeled. As it continued month after month, year after, and discussion board after discussion board, I've been forced to worry it over, until I now think I can diagnose the cause of this disease, and maybe even offer a cure.
> 
> What have you been smoking? Outside of Schoenberg, who gets blamed for "destroying" music with his rejection of traditional tonality, and perhaps Cage and Stockhausen (and really... how well known are they?) Wagner is easily the single most vilified figure in the whole of classical music. Most of those who are anti-Wagner cannot even be honest about it and admit that A. They hate opera (notice how low Verdi, Bellini, Rossini, and Donizetti rank) or B. they simply cannot click with Wagner's music. No... most of the time there are these ridiculous external justifications: A. Wagner was antisemitic (So was Chopin... even more so); B. Hitler liked Wagner (He also liked Beethoven); C. Wagner was a jerk (Yeah? So what? Gesualdo is currently rated among the highest of pre-Baroque composers in spite of his rather gruesome rap-sheet). Wagner will almost certainly come in just behind Brahms in spite of the fact that there is a rabid anti-Wagner clique here... and in spite of the fact that Wagner composed almost exclusively for opera... one of the least popular musical genres... even among classical music fans.


Of course you wrote nothing about Brahms' music.

I am not aware of "an anti-Wagner clique," let alone a rabid one, but it is yet another interesting case of projection. In reality Wagner is where he is on this list because of a rabid pro-Wagner clique - has anyone else consistently done the likes of "Wagner 10 / Brahms -3" voting?

Of course not. No one else acts that way. The Schubert fans voted for him and against Brahms, but without acting so foolish about it.

And for the logical record, I didn't say that Brahms was the only composer who has an agenda against him, and I even specifically mentioned Schoenberg. Pointing out that Wagner also suffers from such an agenda does not contradict anything I wrote or implied. It's only in the mind of you and people like you that anything in favor of Brahms has to be against Wagner. You really need to get over all of this and just _listen to the music_.

Edit: And, since you've decided to make it personal, why can't you just do quotes like normal so that people can trace the conversation backwards? Are you afraid that people will find out the context of the quote?


----------



## Muddy

I love opera. Mozart's operas are some of my favorite works. At this point in my life, Wagner has not done it for me. There are a few exceptions, and I readily admit that one day I may become a rabid Wagnerite. 

I place Brahms above Wagner because of his tremendous output in so many genres. His violin concerto, his symphonies, his 2nd piano concerto, his requiem, his wonderful piano music and, especially, his chamber music. 

Wagner was the most despicable ***, though. But I admit, that shouldn't be a consideration.


----------



## science

As a fervent lover of Miles Davis, I won't comment much on the personalities of the musicians....


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Of course you wrote nothing about Brahms' music.

I am not aware of "an anti-Wagner clique," let alone a rabid one, but it is yet another interesting case of projection. In reality Wagner is where he is on this list because of a rabid pro-Wagner clique - has anyone else consistently done the likes of "Wagner 10 / Brahms -3" voting?

Give me a break. Why not peruse through the whole of this thread and seek out how many votes of -3 points there are for Wagner. There are two on this page alone... yourself included. So its OK to vote against Wagner, but incomprehensible to vote against Brahms? The Wagner/Brahms debate has been going on forever and there are other such "dichotomies": Mozart/Beethoven, Debussy ravel, etc...

I wrote nothing of Brahms? Hmmm it seems I remember typing this not long ago:

_IMO there are only two possible composers (outside the 4 already ranked above him) that I would place above Brahms. I am no great "Brahmsian", but I cannot ignore the wealth of his oeuvre... especially his chamber music._

Yet on this page alone:

_"Wagner was such an abominable ***!"

"I can't stomach Wagner."

"...time to go to bat for Brahms! We don't want Wagner in the top five."_

Or perhaps you are reading a different thread than the rest of us.

Of course not. No one else acts that way. The Schubert fans voted for him and against Brahms, but without acting so foolish about it.

Please explain to me how the Ravel fans who consistently vote: Ravel +10, Debussy -3, or the Debussy fans who consistently vote: Debussy +10, Ravel -3, or the Beethoven fans who repeatedly voted 10 points for their man while deducting 3 from Mozart are any different from the Wagner fans who vote 10 points for Wagner and -3 for Brahms? And please be so kind as to explain how voting: Wagner +10, Brahms -3 is in some way more foolish than voting (as you did) Brahms + 10, Wagner -3. Or is it simply that you cannot fathom that someone might like Wagner more than Brahms and as such you must assume that they must inherently be "foolish". Or perhaps the true foolishness is whining about how a bunch of other people vote for this or that composer on an online forum?

And for the logical record, I didn't say that Brahms was the only composer who has an agenda against him, and I even specifically mentioned Schoenberg. Pointing out that Wagner also suffers from such an agenda does not contradict anything I wrote or implied. It's only in the mind of you and people like you that anything in favor of Brahms has to be against Wagner. You really need to get over all of this and just listen to the music.


"People like me"? Who would people like me be? Those who happen to disagree with you and as such are immediately branded as "having an agenda". Get over it? Who is the one who started the whole rant, crying like some spoiled child about how there was some vast conspiracy against Brahms.

Grow up.


----------



## science

As of the selection of Brahms, the tallies were:

+10 votes for Brahms: 15 (7 by me, all in retaliation for -3 votes against Brahms)
+10 votes for Wagner: 21

-3 votes for Brahms: 16
-3 votes for Wagner: 17 (1 by me, in retaliation for -3 votes against Brahms)

So you take me out of this game, and Wagner receives nearly three times as many +10 votes as Brahms, and the same number of -3 votes.

I'll go back and check, but I don't recall a single "+10 Debussy / - 3 Ravel" post or vice versa. To the best of my recall, everyone always voted for other composers. Could be wrong. Anyway, at the very least it's not been a general pattern.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> whining
> 
> crying like some spoiled child about
> 
> Grow up.


Of course mods are cool with this. But if I so much as PM you something like that....


----------



## Turangalîla

6. Wagner - 429 (+4 from Chopinator)
7. Haydn - 382
8. Mahler - 332
9. Schumann - 308
10. Debussy - 295 (-3 from Chopinator)
10. Handel - 295
12. Chopin - 289 (+8 from Chopinator)
13. Dvořák - 288 (+6 from Chopinator)
14. Mendelssohn - 285
15. Stravinsky - 264
16. Ravel - 259
17. Tchaikovsky - 222
18. Bartók - 204
19. Strauss - 175
20. Shostakovich - 159
21. Liszt - 157 (+10 from Chopinator)
22. Prokofiev - 152
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 128
25. Messiaen - 121
26. Monteverdi - 117
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83
34. Bruckner - 76
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Britten - 60
38. Gesualdo - 57
38. Webern - 57
38. Ligeti - 57
41. Fauré - 59
42. Vivaldi - 55
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Alfven - 47
46. Barber - 45
47. Josquin - 43
47. Palestrina - 43
49. Schnittke - 40
49. Saint-Saëns - 40
51. Bizet - 39
52. Hindemith - 37
53. Medtner - 36
54. Puccini - 36
55. Satie - 32
55. Varèse - 32
57. Arnold - 29
58. Villa-Lobos - 28
58. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27 
62. Glass - 25
63. Lully - 23
64. Stockhausen - 22
64. Corelli - 22
64. Gluck - 22
67. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
67. Ives - 21
67. Weber - 21
67. Penderecki - 21
67. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15 (+2 from Chopinator) 
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9 
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
102. Albeniz - 7
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2 
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1 
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## Turangalîla

BTW, thank you everyone for tallying your own points (especially Stlukesguild and StevenOBrien, who were kind enough to pick up after other members ).


----------



## Chopinator

The only thing that really got me into Wagner was his Tristan und Isolde (Prelude). Besides that, the rest of his works are alright. I'm not a huge opera fan, myself, but I have nothing against his music at all.

I'm just not sure why this is such a hot topic tonight...

As far as the Mozart/Beethoven debate, I feel that in a technical sense, Mozart's pieces are much greater. In a dramatic sense, however, Beethoven takes the cake. Why compare the two when they're two completely different styles?

All composers have good composing qualities and bad composing qualities. I'm sure we can all agree that Brahms and Wagner were both really great composers, regardless of whether or not we particularly favor their styles of composing.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Of course mods are cool with this. But if I so much as PM you something like that....

Oh God. Can't you let it rest? Now you're running to the moderators when someone responds to your insulting comments in a like manner? It's OK to suggest that those who simply voted in a manner different than you were "acting foolish"... or to imply that someone with a difference of opinion from you must "have an agenda" or that Wagner is only where he is because of some "rabid pro-Wagner clique" (nice way to describe those of a difference of opinion once again). And then of course there's "people like me" which suggest who can say what.

People in glass houses.


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Debussy
8: Bartok
7: Monteverdi
6: Schnittke
5: Villa-Lobos
4: Mendelssohn
3: Bruckner
2: Gluck
1: Albeniz


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

The only thing that really got me into Wagner was his Tristan und Isolde (Prelude). Besides that, the rest of his works are alright. I'm not a huge opera fan, myself, but I have nothing against his music at all.

I'm just not sure why this is such a hot topic tonight...

As far as the Mozart/Beethoven debate, I feel that in a technical sense, Mozart's pieces are much greater. In a dramatic sense, however, Beethoven takes the cake. Why compare the two when they're two completely different styles?

All composers have good composing qualities and bad composing qualities. I'm sure we can all agree that Brahms and Wagner were both really great composers, regardless of whether or not we particularly favor their styles of composing.

And every individual has their own notion of which composers are "better" or "worse"... or simply which composers they like the most. Those who valued Beethoven above Mozart repeatedly voted against Mozart... in spite of the fact that I doubt many feel the Mozart was not deserving of recognition among the top ten... if not the top three. I prefer Mozart to Beethoven... and so I voted in the opposite manner... but I certainly don't feel that Beethoven should not be represented in the top ten. In my own personal pantheon, he would come third... after Bach and Mozart. Nor do I discount Brahms... but he would come in a bit lower in my personal top ten:

1. J.S. Bach
2. W.A. Mozart
3. L.v. Beethoven
4. Richard Wagner
5. Franz Schubert
6. G.F. Handel
7. Joseph Haydn
8. Richard Strauss
9. J. Brahms
10. Tchaikovsky

Of course no one here voted their ten favorites consistently. Rather... like the game that this is... we all employed strategies adding large numbers of points to the scores of composers we felt were undervalued, and ignoring or even subtracting points from composers we felt overrated in the current standings.


----------



## Air

_Just a friendly reminder from the moderation team..._

Be polite to your fellow members. If you disagree with them, please state your opinion in a »civil« and respectful manner... Do not post comments about other members person or »posting style« on the forum (unless said comments are unmistakably positive). Argue opinions all you like but do not get personal and never resort to »ad homs«.

Also, please do NOT bring up PMs on the message board. Not the place for it.

Anyways, taking the mod hat off, this is the current big board with tdc and my votes added in:

6. Wagner - 438 (Air +9)
7. Haydn - 382
8. Mahler - 329 (Air -3)
9. Schumann - 309 (Air +1)
10. Handel - 305 (Air +10)
11. Debussy - 304 (tdc +9)
12. Chopin - 289
12. Mendelssohn - 289 (tdc +4)
14. Dvořák - 288
15. Ravel - 269 (tdc +10)
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 222
18. Bartók - 212 (tdc +8)
19. Strauss - 175
20. Prokofiev - 160 (Air +8)
21. Shostakovich - 159
22. Liszt - 157
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 128
25. Monteverdi - 124 (tdc +7)
26. Messiaen - 121
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
32. Rachmaninoff - 83
32. Scriabin - 83
34. Bruckner - 79 (tdc +3)
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 63 (Air +6)
38. Britten - 60
39. Gesualdo - 57
39. Webern - 57
41. Fauré - 59
42. Vivaldi - 55
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Palestrina - 47 (Air +4)
45. Alfven - 47
47. Schnittke - 46 (tdc +6)
48. Barber - 45
49. Medtner - 43 (Air +7)
49. Josquin - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38 (tdc +5) (Air +5)
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35 (Air +3)
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24 (tdc +2)
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23 (Air +2)
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
99. Albeniz - 8 (tdc +1)
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## Chopinator

Never mind. Air tallied up before I could xD


----------



## Very Senior Member

Schumann +10; Handel +9; Haydn +8; Mendelssohn +7; Tchaikovsky +6; Debussy +5; Ravel +4; Dvorak +3; Monteverdi +2; Vivaldi +1; Wagner minus 3. 

I'm pleased to see that Schubert came 4th and Brahms 5th. My negative votes for Brahms were cast purely for tactical purpose in order to help achieve this ranking, not because I dislike Brahms in any way. Hence I can’t relate to any of “sciences” comments about different motives for anti-Brahmsian sentiments. Likewise, I don’t dislike Wagner, but am simply trying to nudge him down the ranks a bit.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Air said:


> _Just a friendly reminder from the moderation team..._
> 
> Be polite to your fellow members. If you disagree with them, please state your opinion in a »civil« and respectful manner... Do not post comments about other members person or »posting style« on the forum (unless said comments are unmistakably positive). Argue opinions all you like but do not get personal and never resort to »ad homs«.
> 
> Also, please do NOT bring up PMs on the message board. Not the place for it.
> 
> Anyways, taking the mod hat off, this is the current big board with tdc and my votes added in:
> 
> 6. Wagner - 438 (Air +9)
> 7. Haydn - 382
> 8. Mahler - 329 (Air -3)
> 9. Schumann - 309 (Air +1)
> 10. Handel - 305 (Air +10)
> 11. Debussy - 304 (tdc +9)
> 12. Chopin - 289
> 12. Mendelssohn - 289 (tdc +4)
> 14. Dvořák - 288
> 15. Ravel - 269 (tdc +10)
> 16. Stravinsky - 264
> 17. Tchaikovsky - 222
> 18. Bartók - 212 (tdc +8)
> 19. Strauss - 175
> 20. Prokofiev - 160 (Air +8)
> 21. Shostakovich - 159
> 22. Liszt - 157
> 23. Sibelius - 143
> 24. Verdi - 128
> 25. Monteverdi - 124 (tdc +7)
> 26. Messiaen - 121
> 27. Mussorgsky - 114
> 28. Berlioz - 98
> 29. Janáček - 96
> 30. Schoenberg - 95
> 31. Nielsen - 93
> 32. Rachmaninoff - 83
> 32. Scriabin - 83
> 34. Bruckner - 79 (tdc +3)
> 35. Vaughan Williams - 72
> 36. Elgar - 68
> 37. Ligeti - 63 (Air +6)
> 38. Britten - 60
> 39. Gesualdo - 57
> 39. Webern - 57
> 41. Fauré - 59
> 42. Vivaldi - 55
> 43. Grieg - 54
> 44. Berg - 50
> 45. Palestrina - 47 (Air +4)
> 45. Alfven - 47
> 47. Schnittke - 46 (tdc +6)
> 48. Barber - 45
> 49. Medtner - 43 (Air +7)
> 49. Josquin - 43
> 51. Saint-Saëns - 40
> 52. Bizet - 39
> 53. Villa-Lobos - 38 (tdc +5) (Air +5)
> 54. Hindemith - 37
> 55. Puccini - 36
> 56. Varèse - 35 (Air +3)
> 57. Satie - 32
> 58. Arnold - 29
> 59. Scarlatti - 28
> 60. Rossini - 27
> 60. Reich - 27
> 62. Glass - 25
> 63. Gluck - 24 (tdc +2)
> 64. Lully - 23
> 64. Ives - 23 (Air +2)
> 66. Stockhausen - 22
> 66. Corelli - 22
> 68. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
> 68. Weber - 21
> 68. Penderecki - 21
> 68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
> 72. Gershwin - 18
> 72. Rodrigo - 18
> 74. Rameau - 17
> 74. Novak - 17
> 76. Copland - 16
> 76. Gombert - 16
> 76. Machaut - 16
> 76. Lutoslawski - 16
> 80. Biber - 15
> 80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
> 82. Takemitsu - 14
> 82. Tallis - 14
> 82. Adams - 14
> 85. Bellini - 13
> 86. Schumann, Clara - 12
> 86. Purcell - 12
> 88. Harbison - 11
> 88. Liefs - 11
> 88. Smetana - 11
> 91. Paganini - 10
> 91. Delius - 10
> 91. Rudland - 10
> 91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
> 95. Golijov - 9
> 95. Pärt - 9
> 95. Holst - 9
> 95. Hummel - 9
> 99. Macdowell - 8
> 99. Xenakis - 8
> 99. Zimmermann - 8
> 99. Albeniz - 8 (tdc +1)
> 103. Wohlfahrt - 6
> 103. Respighi - 6
> 103. Berio - 6
> 103. Spohr - 6
> 103. Locatelli - 6
> 108. Bach, J.C. - 5
> 108. Byrd - 5
> 108. Eberl - 5
> 108. Glazunov - 5
> 108. Hartmann - 5
> 108. Telemann - 5
> 114. Boulez - 4
> 114. Hildegard - 4
> 114. Gorecki - 4
> 114. Henze - 4
> 114. Clementi - 4
> 114. Borodin - 4
> 120. Simpson - 3
> 120. Martinu - 3
> 120. Carter - 3
> 123. Poulenc - 2
> 123. Tower - 2
> 123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
> 123. Donizetti - 2
> 123. Allegri - 2
> 123. Cherubini - 2
> 123. Brouwer - 2
> 123. Danzi - 2
> 123. Crumb - 2
> 123. Alkan - 2
> 133. Gubaidulina - 1
> 133. Monti - 1
> 133. Alwyn - 1
> 133. Meyerbeer - 1
> 133. Offenbach - 1
> 133. Bernstein - 1
> 139. Czerny - -3
> 140. Schobert - -8


Taking away 3 points from Mahler's tally is neither polite nor civil.


----------



## Air

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Taking away 3 points from Mahler's tally is neither polite nor civil.


Didn't you know that the mods have the right to blast Mahler as much as they want? It's in the rules too. 

Anyways, I respectfully disagree. 

(ahem... I will do everything in my power to stop Mahler from making it into the top 10... muahaha)


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Oh God. Can't you let it rest? Now you're running to the moderators when someone responds to your insulting comments in a like manner? It's OK to suggest that those who simply voted in a manner different than you were "acting foolish"... or to imply that someone with a difference of opinion from you must "have an agenda" or that Wagner is only where he is because of some "rabid pro-Wagner clique" (nice way to describe those of a difference of opinion once again). And then of course there's "people like me" which suggest who can say what.
> 
> People in glass houses.


As the mods have asked us to shut up while I was typing my response, I only wish to make sure it's known that I didn't "run to" them, and even if I had [removed per the mod's order].

Nor did I say that people who voted differently than I were voting foolishly.


----------



## peeyaj

It's amazing how intelligent people resorts to name calling just to defend their favorite composers. It's like Android-iOS, Apple-Microsoft wars.


----------



## Air

peeyaj said:


> It's amazing how intelligent people resorts to name calling just to defend their favorite composers. It's like Android-iOS, Apple-Microsoft wars.


Oh no, Wagner vs. Brahms is way more intense! And it has been going on far longer, I assure you.


----------



## Very Senior Member

science said:


> As the mods have asked us to shut up while I was typing my response, I only wish to make sure it's known that I didn't "run to" them, and even if I had [reference to PMs removed per the mod's order]. Nor did I say that people who voted differently than I were voting foolishly.


 Nor did you allow for tactical voting in your list of reasons why you consider people apparently dislike Brahms. I happen to like Brahms a great deal, but I still gave him two concecutive sets of minus 3 votes purely in order to try to put him just behind Schubert. I thought everyone was playing this sort of game. If not I can't see what the purpose is of organising the poll to allow repeated voting. BTW, there aren't enough players to give this exercise much statistical credibility.


----------



## Very Senior Member

peeyaj said:


> It's amazing how intelligent people resorts to name calling just to defend their favorite composers. It's like Android-iOS, Apple-Microsoft wars.


 Just so long as "little mushroom" comes on top (just below the top 3) each time in polls like this, that's all that matters.


----------



## science

Very Senior Member said:


> Nor did you allow for tactical voting in your list of reasons why you consider people apparently dislike Brahms. I happen to like Brahms a great deal, but I still gave him two concecutive sets of minus 3 votes purely in order to try to put him just behind Schubert. I thought everyone was playing this sort of game. If not I can't see what the purpose is of organising the poll to allow repeated voting. BTW, there aren't enough players to give this exercise much statistical credibility.


I agree about the statistical validity entirely, but I was challenged to do it!

I personally would certainly not have put Brahms at +10 so often if not for the -3 votes, and past my experience with this sort of thing. At the first "Wagner +10 / Brahms -3" vote, I realized, "Oh, we're going to play that game." I didn't retaliate against Wagner until the very end because I have my Schobert project on the other end, and only the one time because it looked like I could prevent Brahms "snatching defeat from the hands of victory."


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Rachmaninoff: 9
Liszt: 8
I only vote all the time for some favorites who I like to see higher in the list. I am the only reason that Scriabin has a decent position, which he completely deserves.


----------



## Chopinator

Once again I can't tally worth anything...


----------



## pjang23

Missing a vote:



Very Senior Member said:


> Schumann +10; Handel +9; Haydn +8; Mendelssohn +7; Tchaikovsky +6; Debussy +5; Ravel +4; Dvorak +3; Monteverdi +2; Vivaldi +1; Wagner minus 3.


6. Wagner - 435
7. Haydn - 390
8. Mahler - 329
9. Schumann - 319
10. Handel - 314
11. Debussy - 309
12. Mendelssohn - 296
13. Dvořák - 291
14. Chopin - 289
15. Ravel - 273
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 228
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss - 175
20. Liszt - 165
21. Prokofiev - 160
22. Shostakovich - 159
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 128
25. Monteverdi - 126
26. Messiaen - 121
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
31. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 79
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 63
38. Britten - 60
39. Fauré - 59
40. Gesualdo - 57
40. Webern - 57
42. Vivaldi - 56
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Palestrina - 47
45. Alfven - 47
47. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 45
49. Medtner - 43
49. Josquin - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Wagner, Siegfried - 21
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
99. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## crmoorhead

6. Wagner - 443 (+8 crmoorhead)
7. Haydn - 400 (+10 crmoorhead)
8. Mahler - 338 (+9 crmoorhead)
9. Schumann - 324 (+5 crmoorhead)
10. Handel - 314
11. Debussy - 311 (+2 crmoorhead)
12. Mendelssohn - 296
13. Dvořák - 291
14. Chopin - 289
15. Ravel - 276 (+3 crmoorhead)
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 235 (+7 crmoorhead)
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss - 175
20. Liszt - 171 (+6 crmoorhead)
21. Prokofiev - 160
22. Shostakovich - 159
23. Sibelius - 143
24. Verdi - 132 (+4 crmoorhead)
25. Monteverdi - 126
26. Messiaen - 121
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 98
29. Janáček - 96
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
31. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 79
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 63
38. Britten - 60
39. Fauré - 59
40. Gesualdo - 57
40. Webern - 57
42. Vivaldi - 56
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
45. Palestrina - 47
45. Alfven - 47
47. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46 (+1 crmoorhead)
49. Medtner - 43
49. Josquin - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Wagner, Siegfried - 18 (-3 crmoorhead)
71. Gershwin - 18
71. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
88. Smetana - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
99. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1
139. Czerny - -3
140. Schobert - -8


----------



## Vesteralen

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Of course no one here voted their ten favorites consistently. Rather... like the game that this is... we all employed strategies adding large numbers of points to the scores of composers we felt were undervalued, and ignoring or even subtracting points from composers we felt overrated in the current standings.


I feel like I keep beating a dead horse here, but let me point out once again that *some* of us do not vote tactically at all. I, for one, simply vote based on which composers I feel like listening to the most today. 

And, I never take points away from anyone, so I can't be painted with that brush either.


----------



## Vesteralen

I spent about 15 minutes adding my daily posts to the list and then lost it before I could post it.

Sorry, this game is too time consuming now. You can all carry on without me.


----------



## emiellucifuge

I love Brahms and I love Wagner just a bit more. I think Wagner is one of the best 5 composers and have been voting consistently to push him into this group.

10. Wagner
9. Haydn
8. Chopin
7. Handel
6. Debussy
5. Dvorak
4. Monteverdi
3. Palestrina
-3 mahler

No way should mahler get in the top 10!


----------



## Arsakes

It seems I came too late to add to Brahms.. and is Wagner 6th now?

10. Haydn
9. Dvorak
8. Handel
7. Schumann
6. Sibelius
5. Liszt
4. Shostakovich
3. Berlioz
2. Smetana
1. Janáček


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Mahler · 10 points

Lord John Archibald Rottenmouth of Winterborough · -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

Guuuys, you're meant to copy the list out and update it yourself. Don't make me do it for you again . Anyway, Wagner wins #6!

*6. Wagner - 453 (+10: emiellucifugue) PERMANENT #6, DO NOT VOTE FOR AGAIN*
7. Haydn - 419 (+9: emiellucifugue, +10: Arsakes)
8. Mahler - 345 (-3: emiellucifugue, +10: DrHieronymusFaust)
9. Schumann - 331 (+7: Arsakes)
10. Handel - 329 (+7: emiellucifugue, +8: Arsakes)
11. Debussy - 317 (+6: emiellucifugue)
12. Dvořák - 305 (+5: emiellucifugue, +9: Arsakes)
13. Chopin - 297 (+8: emiellucifugue)
14. Mendelssohn - 296
15. Ravel - 276
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 235
18. Bartók - 212
19. Liszt - 176 (+5: Arsakes)
20. Strauss, Richard - 175
21. Shostakovich - 163 (+4: Arsakes)
22. Prokofiev - 160
23. Sibelius - 149 (+6: Arsakes)
24. Verdi - 132
25. Monteverdi - 130 (+4: emiellucifugue)
26. Messiaen - 121
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Berlioz - 101 (+3: Arsakes)
29. Janáček - 96 (+1: Arsakes)
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Nielsen - 93
31. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 79
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 63
38. Britten - 60
39. Fauré - 59
40. Gesualdo - 57
40. Webern - 57
42. Vivaldi - 56
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
44. Palestrina - 50 (+3: emiellucifugue)
46. Alfven - 47
47. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
49. Medtner - 43
49. Josquin - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
71. Gershwin - 18
71. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13 (+2: Arsakes)
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
99. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1
139. Czerny - -3
139. Lord John Archibald Rottenmouth of Winterborough -3
141. Schobert - -8


----------



## Sequentia

Am I allowed to join late? If yes, then:

Mozart (10)
Bruckner (9)
Josquin (8)
Beethoven (7)
Bach (6)
Sorabji (5)
Janáček (4)
Skalkottas (3)
Boulez (2)
Xenakis (1)


----------



## peeyaj

Wagner should be on the 5th place.. I'm sorry I haven't voted for him earlier. But Brahms is ok though.


----------



## Vesteralen

I'm going to try again, but this time only a few entries:

10 - Schumann, R
9 - Nielsen, C
8 - Haydn, FJ

7. Haydn - 427 (+8 Vesteralen)
8. Mahler - 345 
9. Schumann - 341 (+10 Vesteralen)
10. Handel - 329 
11. Debussy - 317 
12. Dvořák - 305 
13. Chopin - 297 
14. Mendelssohn - 296
15. Ravel - 276
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 235
18. Bartók - 212
19. Liszt - 176
20. Strauss, Richard - 175
21. Shostakovich - 163 
22. Prokofiev - 160
23. Sibelius - 149 
24. Verdi - 132
25. Monteverdi - 130 
26. Messiaen - 121
27. Mussorgsky - 114
28. Nielsen - 102 (+9 pts. Vesteralen)
28. Berlioz - 101 
29. Janáček - 96 
30. Schoenberg - 95
31. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 79
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 63
38. Britten - 60
39. Fauré - 59
40. Gesualdo - 57
40. Webern - 57
42. Vivaldi - 56
43. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 50
44. Palestrina - 50 
46. Alfven - 47
47. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
49. Medtner - 43
49. Josquin - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
71. Gershwin - 18
71. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13 
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
99. Macdowell - 8
99. Xenakis - 8
99. Zimmermann - 8
99. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
108. Bach, J.C. - 5
108. Byrd - 5
108. Eberl - 5
108. Glazunov - 5
108. Hartmann - 5
108. Telemann - 5
114. Boulez - 4
114. Hildegard - 4
114. Gorecki - 4
114. Henze - 4
114. Clementi - 4
114. Borodin - 4
120. Simpson - 3
120. Martinu - 3
120. Carter - 3
123. Poulenc - 2
123. Tower - 2
123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
123. Donizetti - 2
123. Allegri - 2
123. Cherubini - 2
123. Brouwer - 2
123. Danzi - 2
123. Crumb - 2
123. Alkan - 2
133. Gubaidulina - 1
133. Monti - 1
133. Alwyn - 1
133. Meyerbeer - 1
133. Offenbach - 1
133. Bernstein - 1
139. Czerny - -3
139. Lord John Archibald Rottenmouth of Winterborough -3
141. Schobert - -8[/QUOTE]

Somebody might want to add Sequentia's nominations since it posted while I was working on mine.
This updating thing stinks.
Plus, the numerical sequence numbers are way out of whack.


----------



## Vesteralen

Vesteralen said:


> I'm going to try again, but this time only a few entries:
> 
> 10 - Schumann, R
> 9 - Nielsen, C
> 8 - Haydn, FJ
> 
> 7. Haydn - 427 (+8 Vesteralen)
> 8. Mahler - 345
> 9. Schumann - 341 (+10 Vesteralen)
> 10. Handel - 329
> 11. Debussy - 317
> 12. Dvořák - 305
> 13. Chopin - 297
> 14. Mendelssohn - 296
> 15. Ravel - 276
> 16. Stravinsky - 264
> 17. Tchaikovsky - 235
> 18. Bartók - 212
> 19. Liszt - 176
> 20. Strauss, Richard - 175
> 21. Shostakovich - 163
> 22. Prokofiev - 160
> 23. Sibelius - 149
> 24. Verdi - 132
> 25. Monteverdi - 130
> 26. Messiaen - 121
> 27. Mussorgsky - 114
> 28. Nielsen - 102 (+9 pts. Vesteralen)
> 29. Berlioz - 101
> 30. Janáček - 96
> 31. Schoenberg - 95
> 32. Scriabin - 93
> 33. Rachmaninoff - 92
> 34. Bruckner - 79
> 35. Vaughan Williams - 72
> 36. Elgar - 68
> 37. Ligeti - 63
> 38. Britten - 60
> 39. Fauré - 59
> 40. Gesualdo - 57
> 40. Webern - 57
> 42. Vivaldi - 56
> 43. Grieg - 54
> 44. Berg - 50
> 44. Palestrina - 50
> 46. Alfven - 47
> 47. Schnittke - 46
> 48. Barber - 46
> 49. Medtner - 43
> 49. Josquin - 43
> 51. Saint-Saëns - 40
> 52. Bizet - 39
> 53. Villa-Lobos - 38
> 54. Hindemith - 37
> 55. Puccini - 36
> 56. Varèse - 35
> 57. Satie - 32
> 58. Arnold - 29
> 59. Scarlatti - 28
> 60. Rossini - 27
> 60. Reich - 27
> 62. Glass - 25
> 63. Gluck - 24
> 64. Lully - 23
> 64. Ives - 23
> 66. Stockhausen - 22
> 66. Corelli - 22
> 68. Weber - 21
> 68. Penderecki - 21
> 68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
> 71. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
> 71. Gershwin - 18
> 71. Rodrigo - 18
> 74. Rameau - 17
> 74. Novak - 17
> 76. Copland - 16
> 76. Gombert - 16
> 76. Machaut - 16
> 76. Lutoslawski - 16
> 80. Biber - 15
> 80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
> 82. Takemitsu - 14
> 82. Tallis - 14
> 82. Adams - 14
> 85. Bellini - 13
> 85. Smetana - 13
> 86. Schumann, Clara - 12
> 86. Purcell - 12
> 88. Harbison - 11
> 88. Liefs - 11
> 91. Paganini - 10
> 91. Delius - 10
> 91. Rudland - 10
> 91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
> 95. Golijov - 9
> 95. Pärt - 9
> 95. Holst - 9
> 95. Hummel - 9
> 99. Macdowell - 8
> 99. Xenakis - 8
> 99. Zimmermann - 8
> 99. Albeniz - 8
> 103. Wohlfahrt - 6
> 103. Respighi - 6
> 103. Berio - 6
> 103. Spohr - 6
> 103. Locatelli - 6
> 108. Bach, J.C. - 5
> 108. Byrd - 5
> 108. Eberl - 5
> 108. Glazunov - 5
> 108. Hartmann - 5
> 108. Telemann - 5
> 114. Boulez - 4
> 114. Hildegard - 4
> 114. Gorecki - 4
> 114. Henze - 4
> 114. Clementi - 4
> 114. Borodin - 4
> 120. Simpson - 3
> 120. Martinu - 3
> 120. Carter - 3
> 123. Poulenc - 2
> 123. Tower - 2
> 123. Strauss, Johann II - 2
> 123. Donizetti - 2
> 123. Allegri - 2
> 123. Cherubini - 2
> 123. Brouwer - 2
> 123. Danzi - 2
> 123. Crumb - 2
> 123. Alkan - 2
> 133. Gubaidulina - 1
> 133. Monti - 1
> 133. Alwyn - 1
> 133. Meyerbeer - 1
> 133. Offenbach - 1
> 133. Bernstein - 1
> 139. Czerny - -3
> 139. Lord John Archibald Rottenmouth of Winterborough -3
> 141. Schobert - -8


Somebody might want to add Sequentia's nominations since it posted while I was working on mine.
This updating thing stinks.
Plus, the numerical sequence numbers are way out of whack.[/QUOTE]

Sequencing corrected, I think


----------



## Turangalîla

Vesteralen said:


> Somebody might want to add Sequentia's nominations since it posted while I was working on mine.
> This updating thing stinks.
> Plus, the numerical sequence numbers are way out of whack.
> 
> Sequencing corrected, I think


I will do Sequentia's votes, as well as mine, right now. I'm sorry that I'm asking everyone to do their own updating, but it actually takes me an hour every single day, and it should only take each person three minutes to do their own.

(Edit: I do not think that we should include DrHieronymusFaust's "joke" entries. They are funny, but so was Wagner's dog, and I didn't put that on the list )

(Edit #2: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU Steven for helping me out so much, new best friend )


----------



## Vesteralen

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> I will do Sequentia's votes, as well as mine, right now. I'm sorry that I'm asking everyone to do their own updating, but it actually takes me an hour every single day, and it should only take each person three minutes to do their own.


Sorry if I came across as a whiner. I really appreciate your efforts and the efforts of others who have tried to keep up with this. It's just the possibility that, after going to all the trouble to update, usually one of two things happens: 1) I lose it all before posting by trying to go back and check something, or 2) it takes me so long to do it that someone else posts in while I'm working on it and it all becomes useless.

Hence, I cut down to just three entries of my own to try to make it all a bit quicker. If allowed, I would add additional entries for each day a few at a time rather than try to do a whole ten and have it all go for naught.

I'm all for making it easier on you. The three minute estimate, however, is a little optimistic in my case.


----------



## Turangalîla

My vote:

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schumann - 7 (Why in heaven's name is he losing to Mahler?)
Schoenberg - 6
Webern - 5
Berg - 4
Mendelssohn - 3
Haydn - 2
Ligeti - 1

Debussy -3

I have also included Sequentia's votes (but I forgot to show you what he voted for...see his entry above)

7. Haydn - 429
8. Schumann - 348 
9. Mahler - 345 
10. Handel - 329 
11. Debussy - 314
12. Dvořák - 305 
13. Mendelssohn - 299
14. Chopin - 297 
15. Ravel - 286
16. Stravinsky - 264
17. Tchaikovsky - 235
18. Bartók - 212
19. Liszt - 176
20. Strauss, Richard - 175
21. Shostakovich - 163 
22. Prokofiev - 160
23. Sibelius - 149 
24. Verdi - 132
25. Monteverdi - 130 
25. Messiaen - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Nielsen - 102
29. Berlioz - 101 
29. Schoenberg - 101
31. Janáček - 100 
32. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 64
38. Webern - 62 
39. Britten - 60
40. Fauré - 59
41. Gesualdo - 57
42. Vivaldi - 56
43. Grieg - 54
43. Berg - 54 
45. Josquin - 51 
46. Palestrina - 50 
47. Alfven - 47
48. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
50. Medtner - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
71. Gershwin - 18
71. Rodrigo - 18
74. Rameau - 17
74. Novak - 17
76. Copland - 16
76. Gombert - 16
76. Machaut - 16
76. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Biber - 15
80. Rimsky-Korsakov - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13 
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
88. Harbison - 11
88. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Pärt - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
95. Xenakis - 9 
100. Macdowell - 8
100. Zimmermann - 8
100. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
103. Boulez - 6 
109. Bach, J.C. - 5
109. Byrd - 5
109. Eberl - 5
109. Glazunov - 5
109. Hartmann - 5
109. Telemann - 5
109. Sorabji - 5
116. Hildegard - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Borodin - 4
121. Simpson - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
125. Poulenc - 2
125. Tower - 2
125. Strauss, Johann II - 2
125. Donizetti - 2
125. Allegri - 2
125. Cherubini - 2
125. Brouwer - 2
125. Danzi - 2
125. Crumb - 2
125. Alkan - 2
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Turangalîla

Vesteralen said:


> Sorry if I came across as a whiner. I really appreciate your efforts and the efforts of others who have tried to keep up with this. It's just the possibility that, after going to all the trouble to update, usually one of two things happens: 1) I lose it all before posting by trying to go back and check something, or 2) it takes me so long to do it that someone else posts in while I'm working on it and it all becomes useless.
> 
> Hence, I cut down to just three entries of my own to try to make it all a bit quicker. If allowed, I would add additional entries for each day a few at a time rather than try to do a whole ten and have it all go for naught.
> 
> I'm all for making it easier on you. The three minute estimate, however, is a little optimistic in my case.


Maybe it's only three minutes for me because I have become so efficient with the system 
If if helps, I open two tabs, one that has the thread on it, and the other where you work on typing your vote (I like to "go advanced" for that one). Right before I post my vote, I refresh the other tab and make sure no one else has voted.

The system isn't perfect, but I hope that helps


----------



## Turangalîla

Note to all: This is NOT the time to introduce new composers to the list anymore. If they have not been listed already, the chance that they will make it to the Top 50 is _very_ slim. Also, it makes us have to change the ranking numbers for all of the composers below them, which is very time consuming.

Thanks!


----------



## pjang23

10 Debussy
9 Stravinsky
8 Strauss
7 Palestrina
6 Tchaikovsky
5 Rimsky-Korsakov (only has 15 points!)
4 Handel
3 Part
2 Ravel
1 Sibelius
-3 Chopin

7. Haydn - 429
8. Schumann - 348
9. Mahler - 345
10. Handel - 333
11. Debussy - 324
12. Dvořák - 305
13. Mendelssohn - 299
14. Chopin - 294
15. Ravel - 288
16. Stravinsky - 273
17. Tchaikovsky - 241
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss, Richard - 183
20. Liszt - 176
21. Shostakovich - 163
22. Prokofiev - 160
23. Sibelius - 150
24. Verdi - 132
25. Monteverdi - 130
25. Messiaen - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Nielsen - 102
29. Berlioz - 101
29. Schoenberg - 101
31. Janáček - 100
32. Scriabin - 93
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 64
38. Webern - 62
39. Britten - 60
40. Fauré - 59
41. Gesualdo - 57
41. Palestrina - 57
43. Vivaldi - 56
44. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 54
46. Josquin - 51
47. Alfven - 47
48. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
50. Medtner - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Villa-Lobos - 38
54. Hindemith - 37
55. Puccini - 36
56. Varèse - 35
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Rimsky-Korsakov - 20
72. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
75. Rameau - 17
75. Novak - 17
77. Copland - 16
77. Gombert - 16
77. Machaut - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
86. Pärt - 12
89. Harbison - 11
89. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
95. Xenakis - 9
100. Macdowell - 8
100. Zimmermann - 8
100. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
103. Boulez - 6
109. Bach, J.C. - 5
109. Byrd - 5
109. Eberl - 5
109. Glazunov - 5
109. Hartmann - 5
109. Telemann - 5
109. Sorabji - 5
116. Hildegard - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Borodin - 4
121. Simpson - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
125. Poulenc - 2
125. Tower - 2
125. Strauss, Johann II - 2
125. Donizetti - 2
125. Allegri - 2
125. Cherubini - 2
125. Brouwer - 2
125. Danzi - 2
125. Crumb - 2
125. Alkan - 2
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Sequentia

Well, I suppose I missed this thread's point. Anyway...


----------



## leomarillier

10 Mahler
9 Schoenberg
8 Richard Strauss
7 Messiaen
6 Berlioz
5 Stravinsky
4 Scriabin
3 Varèse
2 Debussy
1 Schumann

Which makes:
7. Haydn - 429
8. Mahler - 355
9. Schumann - 350
10. Handel - 333
11. Debussy - 326
12. Dvořák - 305
13. Mendelssohn - 299
14. Chopin - 294
15. Ravel - 288
16. Stravinsky - 278
17. Tchaikovsky - 241
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss, Richard - 191
20. Liszt - 176
21. Shostakovich - 163
22. Prokofiev - 160
23. Sibelius - 150
24. Messiaen - 137
25. Verdi - 132 
25. Monteverdi - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Schoenberg - 110
29. Berlioz - 107
29. Nielsen - 102
31. Janáček - 100
32. Scriabin - 97
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Elgar - 68
37. Ligeti - 64
38. Webern - 62
39. Britten - 60
40. Fauré - 59
41. Gesualdo - 57
41. Palestrina - 57
43. Vivaldi - 56
44. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 54
46. Josquin - 51
47. Alfven - 47
48. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
50. Medtner - 43
51. Saint-Saëns - 40
52. Bizet - 39
53. Varèse - 38
54. Villa-Lobos - 38
55. Hindemith - 37
56. Puccini - 36
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 28
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
64. Lully - 23
64. Ives - 23
66. Stockhausen - 22
66. Corelli - 22
68. Weber - 21
68. Penderecki - 21
68. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
71. Rimsky-Korsakov - 20
72. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
72. Gershwin - 18
72. Rodrigo - 18
75. Rameau - 17
75. Novak - 17
77. Copland - 16
77. Gombert - 16
77. Machaut - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
86. Pärt - 12
89. Harbison - 11
89. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
95. Xenakis - 9
100. Macdowell - 8
100. Zimmermann - 8
100. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
103. Boulez - 6
109. Bach, J.C. - 5
109. Byrd - 5
109. Eberl - 5
109. Glazunov - 5
109. Hartmann - 5
109. Telemann - 5
109. Sorabji - 5
116. Hildegard - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Borodin - 4
121. Simpson - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
125. Poulenc - 2
125. Tower - 2
125. Strauss, Johann II - 2
125. Donizetti - 2
125. Allegri - 2
125. Cherubini - 2
125. Brouwer - 2
125. Danzi - 2
125. Crumb - 2
125. Alkan - 2
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Air

7. Haydn - 429
8. Schumann - 353 (+3)
9. Mahler - 352 (-3)
10. Handel - 343 (+10)
11. Debussy - 326
12. Dvořák - 305
13. Mendelssohn - 299
14. Chopin - 294
15. Ravel - 288
16. Stravinsky - 278
17. Tchaikovsky - 241
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss, Richard - 191
20. Liszt - 176
21. Prokofiev - 169 (+9)
22. Shostakovich - 163
23. Sibelius - 150
24. Messiaen - 137
25. Verdi - 132
25. Monteverdi - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Schoenberg - 110
29. Berlioz - 107
29. Nielsen - 102
31. Janáček - 100
32. Scriabin - 97
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Vaughan Williams - 72
36. Ligeti - 69 (+5)
37. Elgar - 68
38. Webern - 62
39. Palestrina - 61 (+4)
40. Britten - 60
41. Fauré - 59
42. Gesualdo - 57
43. Vivaldi - 56
44. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 54
46. Josquin - 51
47. Alfven - 47
48. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
50. Villa-Lobos - 44 (+6)
51. Medtner - 45
52. Saint-Saëns - 40
53. Bizet - 39
54. Varèse - 38
55. Hindemith - 37
56. Puccini - 36
57. Satie - 32
58. Arnold - 29
59. Scarlatti - 36 (+8)
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
63. Gluck - 24
63. Rameau - 24 (+7)
65. Lully - 23
65. Ives - 25 (+2)
67. Stockhausen - 22
67. Corelli - 22
69. Weber - 21
69. Penderecki - 21
69. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Rimsky-Korsakov - 20
73. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
73. Gershwin - 18
73. Rodrigo - 18
76. Novak - 17
77. Copland - 16
77. Gombert - 16
77. Machaut - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
86. Pärt - 12
89. Harbison - 11
89. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
95. Xenakis - 9
100. Macdowell - 8
100. Zimmermann - 8
100. Albeniz - 8
103. Wohlfahrt - 6
103. Respighi - 6
103. Berio - 6
103. Spohr - 6
103. Locatelli - 6
103. Boulez - 6
109. Bach, J.C. - 5
109. Byrd - 5
109. Eberl - 5
109. Glazunov - 5
109. Hartmann - 5
109. Telemann - 5
109. Sorabji - 5
116. Hildegard - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Borodin - 4
121. Simpson - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
121. Alkan - 3 (+1)
126. Poulenc - 2
126. Tower - 2
126. Strauss, Johann II - 2
126. Donizetti - 2
126. Allegri - 2
126. Cherubini - 2
126. Brouwer - 2
126. Danzi - 2
126. Crumb - 2
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Chopinator

Why did I have to vote at 12:07 A.M.? Haha, now I have to wait until midnight I guess xD


----------



## Conor71

10 Mendelssohn
9 Chopin
8 Shostakovich
7 Sibelius
6 Brahms
5 Ligeti
4 Handel
3 Byrd
2 Josquin
1 Haydn


----------



## pjang23

Schumann is actually at 352 (leomarillier added two points instead of one)

I'll volunteer to tally the votes. It really doesn't make sense to have multiple people update, sort and renumber the list by hand when you can do it automatically and without error using an Excel pivot table.

as of Conor71's vote:

7. Haydn - 430
8. Schumann - 352
8. Mahler - 352
10. Handel - 347
11. Debussy - 326
12. Mendelssohn - 309
13. Dvořák - 305
14. Chopin - 303
15. Ravel - 288
16. Stravinsky - 278
17. Tchaikovsky - 241
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss, Richard - 191
20. Liszt - 176
21. Shostakovich - 171
22. Prokofiev - 169
23. Sibelius - 157
24. Messiaen - 137
25. Verdi - 132
26. Monteverdi - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Schoenberg - 110
29. Berlioz - 107
30. Nielsen - 102
31. Janáček - 101
32. Scriabin - 97
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Ligeti - 74
36. Vaughan Williams - 72
37. Elgar - 68
38. Webern - 62
39. Palestrina - 61
40. Britten - 60
41. Fauré - 59
42. Gesualdo - 57
43. Vivaldi - 56
44. Grieg - 54
44. Berg - 54
46. Josquin - 53
47. Alfven - 47
48. Schnittke - 46
48. Barber - 46
50. Villa-Lobos - 44
51. Medtner - 43
52. Saint-Saëns - 40
53. Bizet - 39
54. Varèse - 38
55. Hindemith - 37
56. Puccini - 36
56. Scarlatti - 36
58. Satie - 32
59. Arnold - 29
60. Rossini - 27
60. Reich - 27
62. Glass - 25
62. Ives - 25
64. Gluck - 24
64. Rameau - 24
66. Lully - 23
67. Stockhausen - 22
67. Corelli - 22
69. Weber - 21
69. Penderecki - 21
69. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
72. Rimsky-Korsakov - 20
73. Wagner, Siegfried - 18
73. Gershwin - 18
73. Rodrigo - 18
76. Novak - 17
77. Copland - 16
77. Gombert - 16
77. Machaut - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
82. Adams - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13
86. Schumann, Clara - 12
86. Purcell - 12
86. Pärt - 12
89. Harbison - 11
89. Liefs - 11
91. Paganini - 10
91. Delius - 10
91. Rudland - 10
91. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
95. Golijov - 9
95. Holst - 9
95. Hummel - 9
95. Xenakis - 9
100. Macdowell - 8
100. Zimmermann - 8
100. Albeniz - 8
100. Byrd - 8
104. Wohlfahrt - 6
104. Respighi - 6
104. Berio - 6
104. Spohr - 6
104. Locatelli - 6
104. Boulez - 6
110. Bach, J.C. - 5
110. Eberl - 5
110. Glazunov - 5
110. Hartmann - 5
110. Telemann - 5
110. Sorabji - 5
116. Hildegard - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Borodin - 4
121. Simpson - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
121. Alkan - 3
126. Poulenc - 2
126. Tower - 2
126. Strauss, Johann II - 2
126. Donizetti - 2
126. Allegri - 2
126. Cherubini - 2
126. Brouwer - 2
126. Danzi - 2
126. Crumb - 2
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Turangalîla

pjang23 said:


> I'll volunteer to tally the votes. It really doesn't make sense to have multiple people update, sort and renumber the list by hand when you can do it automatically and without error using an Excel pivot table.


Thank you so much! I do not have the excel pivot table, so if you could do that, that would be fantastic!

And just for you, I am submitting a vote (I am now caught up on votes )

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Schumann - 7
Mendelssohn - 6
Schoenberg - 5
Berg - 4
Webern - 3
Handel - 2
Haydn (even though he's almost secured his victory) - 1

Debussy -3

And, mind you, do please switch Villa-Lobos and Medtner around (they must have gotten mixed up somehow).


----------



## pjang23

No prob. Also, you've voted earlier today, so your current vote will not be counted. Medtner is supposed to be at 43, not 45 points.


----------



## mmsbls

10 Dvořák
9 Mendelssohn
8 Haydn
7 Tchaikovsky
6 Handel
5 Schumann
4 Mahler
3 Chopin
2 Sibelius
1 Debussy

Ravel -3


----------



## Turangalîla

pjang23 said:


> No prob. Also, you've voted earlier today, so your current vote will not be counted. Medtner is supposed to be at 43, not 45 points.


Hehe, I've already discussed the vote issue with StlukesguildOhio, now with you too?


----------



## StevenOBrien

pjang23 said:


> I'll volunteer to tally the votes. It really doesn't make sense to have multiple people update, sort and renumber the list by hand when you can do it automatically and without error using an Excel pivot table.


You sir are awesome!

10 - Chopin
9 - Haydn
8 - Handel
7 - Mendelssohn
6 - Shostakovich
5 - Ravel
4 - Bizet
3 - Glass
2 - Schumann
1 - Stravinsky

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Couchie

Siegfried Wagner: 10 points
Chopin: -3 points


----------



## Sonata

Mahler-10
Mendelssohn-9
Dvorak-8
Haydn-7
Chopin-6
Puccini-5
Prokofiev-4
Tchaikovsky-3


----------



## pjang23

Haydn is in! In case anyone missed it, you do not need to update the list yourself. Just give your votes as normal and I'll tally them.
*
1. Bach - Permanent (Do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (Do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (Do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (Do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (Do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (Do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (Do not vote)*
8. Mahler - 366
9. Handel - 361
10. Schumann - 359
11. Mendelssohn - 334
12. Debussy - 327
13. Dvořák - 323
14. Chopin - 319
15. Ravel - 290
16. Stravinsky - 279
17. Tchaikovsky - 251
18. Bartók - 212
19. Strauss, Richard - 191
20. Shostakovich - 177
21. Liszt - 176
22. Prokofiev - 173
23. Sibelius - 159
24. Messiaen - 137
25. Verdi - 132
26. Monteverdi - 130
27. Mussorgsky - 122
28. Schoenberg - 110
29. Berlioz - 107
30. Nielsen - 102
31. Janáček - 101
32. Scriabin - 97
33. Rachmaninoff - 92
34. Bruckner - 88
35. Ligeti - 74
36. Vaughan Williams - 72
37. Elgar - 68
38. Webern - 62
39. Palestrina - 61
40. Britten - 60
41. Fauré - 59
42. Gesualdo - 57
43. Vivaldi - 56
44. Berg - 54
44. Grieg - 54
46. Josquin - 53
47. Alfven - 47
48. Barber - 46
48. Schnittke - 46
50. Villa-Lobos - 44
51. Bizet - 43
51. Medtner - 43
53. Puccini - 41
54. Saint-Saëns - 40
55. Varèse - 38
56. Hindemith - 37
57. Scarlatti - 36
58. Satie - 32
59. Arnold - 29
60. Glass - 28
61. Reich - 27
61. Rossini - 27
63. Ives - 25
63. Wagner, S. - 25
65. Gluck - 24
65. Rameau - 24
67. Lully - 23
68. Corelli - 22
68. Stockhausen - 22
70. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 21
70. Penderecki - 21
70. Weber - 21
73. Rimsky-Korsakov - 20
74. Gershwin - 18
74. Rodrigo - 18
76. Novak - 17
77. Copland - 16
77. Gombert - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
77. Machaut - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Adams - 14
82. Takemitsu - 
82. Tallis - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13
87. Pärt - 12
87. Purcell - 12
87. Schumann, Clara - 12
90. Harbison - 11
90. Liefs - 11
92. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
92. Delius - 10
92. Paganini - 10
92. Rudland - 10
96. Gojilov - 9
96. Holst - 9
96. Hummel - 9
96. Xenakis - 9
100. Albeniz - 8
100. Byrd - 8
100. MacDowell - 8
100. Zimmerman - 8
104. Berio - 6
104. Boulez - 6
104. Locatelli - 6
104. Respighi - 6
104. Spohr - 6
104. Wohlfahrt - 6
110. Bach, J.C. - 5
110. Eberl - 5
110. Glazunov - 5
110. Hartmann - 5
110. Sorabji - 5
110. Telemann - 5
116. Borodin - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Hildegard - 4
121. Alkan - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Martinu - 3
121. Simpson - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
126. Allegri - 2
126. Brouwer - 2
126. Cherubini - 2
126. Crumb - 2
126. Danzi - 2
126. Donizetti - 2
126. Poulenc - 2
126. Strauss II, J. - 2
126. Tower - 2
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Stravinsky
9. Messiaen
8. Shostakovich
7. Part
6. Copland
5. Berlioz
4. Schoenberg
3. Bartok
2. Martinu
1. Berg

-3 Schumann


----------



## Arsakes

I technically voted yesterday (+3~4 timezone here).

10. Handel
9. Dvorak
8. Sibelius
7. Schumann
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Shostakovitch
4. Liszt
3. Korsakov
2. Mussorgsky
1. Ippolitov Ivanov

-3 Chopin


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Richard Strauss +10
2. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky +9
3. Claude Debussy +8
4. Gabriel Faure +7
5. Bruckner + 6
6. Handel +5
7. Schumann +4
8. Verdi + 3
9. Puccini +2
10. Mahler +1

Stravinsky -3


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Debussy
8: Bartok
7: Monteverdi
6: Bruckner
5: Villa-Lobos
4: Vivaldi
3: D. Scarlatti
2: Schnittke
1: Lully


----------



## science

Wagner at #6. That's not all that bad. Imagine being passionate about Milhaud or Biber! (Not to imply that they're his equal or anything. Just that things could be so much more frustrating....) 

10. Debussy 
9. Dvorak
8. Stravinsky
7. Bartok 
6. Shostakovich
5. Liszt
4. Verdi
3. Monteverdi
2. Schoenberg
1. Janacek


----------



## leomarillier

10. Mahler
9. Schoenberg
8. Varèse
7. Richard Strauss
6. Sibelius
5. Bruckner
4. Debussy
3. Stravinsky
2. Webern
1. Schnittke

After toddlertoddy's, StlukesguildOhio', Arsakes', tdc's and my vote (because someone has to make the counts)

1. Bach - Permanent (Do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (Do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (Do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (Do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (Do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (Do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (Do not vote)
8. Mahler - 377 
9. Handel - 376 
10. Schumann - 367
11. Debussy - 350
12. Mendelssohn - 334
13. Dvořák - 332
14. Chopin - 316 
15. Ravel - 300 
16. Stravinsky - 289
17. Tchaikovsky - 260
18. Bartók - 231
19. Strauss, Richard - 209
20. Shostakovich - 190
21. Liszt - 180
22. Prokofiev - 173
22. Sibelius - 173
24. Messiaen - 146
25. Monteverdi - 137
26. Verdi - 135 
27. Mussorgsky - 124
28. Schoenberg - 119
29. Berlioz - 112 
30. Bruckner - 105
31. Nielsen - 102 
32. Janáček - 101 
33. Rachmaninoff - 98 
34. Scriabin - 97 
35. Ligeti - 74
36. Vaughan Williams - 72
37. Elgar - 68
38. Fauré - 66
39. Webern - 64 
40. Palestrina - 61
41. Vivaldi - 60
41. Britten - 60 
43. Gesualdo - 57 
44. Berg - 55
44. Grieg - 54
46. Josquin - 53
47. Schnittke - 49
47. Villa-Lobos - 49 
49. Alfven - 47 
50. Barber - 46 
50. Varèse - 46 
52. Bizet - 43
52. Medtner - 43
52. Puccini - 43
55. Saint-Saëns - 40
56. Scarlatti - 39
57. Hindemith - 37
58. Satie - 32
59. Arnold - 29
60. Glass - 28
61. Reich - 27
61. Rossini - 27
63. Ives - 25
63. Wagner, S. - 25
65. Gluck - 24 
65. Lully - 24 
65. Rameau - 24 
68. Rimsky-Korsakov - 23
69. Copland - 22
69. Corelli - 22
69. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
69. Stockhausen - 22
70. Penderecki - 21
70. Pärt - 21
70. Weber - 21
74. Gershwin - 18
74. Rodrigo - 18
76. Novak - 17
77. Gombert - 16
77. Lutoslawski - 16
77. Machaut - 16
81. Biber - 15
82. Adams - 14
82. Takemitsu - 14
82. Tallis - 14
85. Bellini - 13
85. Smetana - 13 
87. Purcell - 12
87. Schumann, Clara - 12
90. Harbison - 11
90. Liefs - 11
92. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
92. Delius - 10
92. Paganini - 10
92. Rudland - 10
96. Gojilov - 9
96. Holst - 9
96. Hummel - 9
96. Xenakis - 9
100. Albeniz - 8
100. Byrd - 8
100. MacDowell - 8
100. Zimmerman - 8
104. Berio - 6
104. Boulez - 6
104. Locatelli - 6
104. Respighi - 6
104. Spohr - 6
104. Wohlfahrt - 6
110. Bach, J.C. - 5
110. Eberl - 5
110. Glazunov - 5
110. Hartmann - 5
110. Martinu - 5
110. Sorabji - 5
110. Telemann - 5
116. Borodin - 4
116. Clementi - 4
116. Gorecki - 4
116. Henze - 4
116. Hildegard - 4
121. Alkan - 3
121. Carter - 3
121. Simpson - 3
121. Skalkottas - 3
126. Allegri - 2
126. Brouwer - 2
126. Cherubini - 2
126. Crumb - 2
126. Danzi - 2
126. Donizetti - 2
126. Poulenc - 2
126. Strauss II, J. - 2
126. Tower - 2
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## emiellucifuge

10. Handel
9. Debussy
8. Stravinsky
7. Verdi
6. Monteverdi
5. Rossini
4. Puccini
3. Webern

-3 mahler


----------



## Very Senior Member

Schumann +10; Handel +9; Mendelssohn +8; Dvorak+7; Mahler minus 3.


----------



## pjang23

leomarillier said:


> After toddlertoddy's, StlukesguildOhio', Arsakes', tdc's and my vote (because someone has to make the counts)


Hello leomarillier,

I can take care of the tallying.

As of Very Senior Member's vote and a few corrections:

1. Bach - Permanent (Do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (Do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (Do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (Do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (Do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (Do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (Do not vote)
8. Handel - 395
9. Schumann - 377
10. Mahler - 371
11. Debussy - 367
12. Dvořák - 348
13. Mendelssohn - 342
14. Chopin - 316
15. Stravinsky - 305
16. Ravel - 300
17. Tchaikovsky - 260
18. Bartók - 230
19. Strauss, Richard - 208
20. Shostakovich - 196
21. Liszt - 185
22. Prokofiev - 173
22. Sibelius - 173
24. Messiaen - 146
24. Monteverdi - 146
24. Verdi - 146
27. Schoenberg - 125
28. Mussorgsky - 124
29. Berlioz - 112
30. Bruckner - 105
31. Janáček - 102
31. Nielsen - 102
33. Rachmaninoff - 98
34. Scriabin - 97
35. Ligeti - 74
36. Vaughan Williams - 72
37. Elgar - 68
38. Webern - 67
39. Fauré - 66
40. Palestrina - 61
41. Britten - 60
41. Vivaldi - 60
43. Gesualdo - 57
44. Berg - 55
45. Grieg - 54
46. Josquin - 53
47. Schnittke - 49
47. Villa-Lobos - 49
49. Alfven - 47
49. Puccini - 47
51. Barber - 46
51. Varèse - 46
53. Bizet - 43
53. Medtner - 43
55. Saint-Saëns - 40
56. Scarlatti - 39
57. Hindemith - 37
58. Rossini - 32
58. Satie - 32
60. Arnold - 29
61. Glass - 28
62. Reich - 27
63. Ives - 25
63. Wagner, Siegfried - 25
65. Gluck - 24
65. Lully - 24
65. Rameau - 24
68. Rimsky-Korsakov - 23
69. Copland - 22
69. Corelli - 22
69. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
69. Stockhausen - 22
73. Penderecki - 21
73. Weber - 21
75. Pärt - 19
76. Gershwin - 18
76. Rodrigo - 18
78. Novak - 17
79. Gombert - 16
79. Lutoslawski - 16
79. Machaut - 16
82. Biber - 15
83. Adams - 14
83. Takemitsu - 14
83. Tallis - 14
86. Bellini - 13
86. Smetana - 13
88. Purcell - 12
88. Schumann, Clara - 12
90. Harbison - 11
90. Liefs - 11
92. Bach, C.P.E. - 10
92. Delius - 10
92. Paganini - 10
92. Rudland - 10
96. Gojilov - 9
96. Holst - 9
96. Hummel - 9
96. Xenakis - 9
100. Albeniz - 8
100. Byrd - 8
100. MacDowell - 8
100. Zimmerman - 8
104. Berio - 6
104. Boulez - 6
104. Locatelli - 6
104. Respighi - 6
104. Spohr - 6
104. Wohlfahrt - 6
110. Bach, J.C. - 5
110. Eberl - 5
110. Glazunov - 5
110. Hartmann - 5
110. Martinu - 5
110. Sorabji - 5
110. Telemann - 5
117. Borodin - 4
117. Clementi - 4
117. Gorecki - 4
117. Henze - 4
117. Hildegard - 4
122. Alkan - 3
122. Carter - 3
122. Simpson - 3
122. Skalkottas - 3
126. Allegri - 2
126. Brouwer - 2
126. Cherubini - 2
126. Crumb - 2
126. Danzi - 2
126. Donizetti - 2
126. Poulenc - 2
126. Strauss II, J. - 2
126. Tower - 2
135. Alwyn - 1
135. Bernstein - 1
135. Gubaidulina - 1
135. Meyerbeer - 1
135. Monti - 1
135. Offenbach - 1
141. Czerny - -3
142. Schobert - -8


----------



## pjang23

I do have to say this list could become a decent reflection of the forum's consensus choices.

Not surprisingly, the results below about 30 aren't very good since not much consensus can be made in the lower positions with only 10 votes each person. However, but the top 10 look about right according to forum tastes, and top 30 pretty much contain the right names (with lots of variance in ordering 11-30). As we enshrine more composers, this becomes less of an issue, since the consensus will gradually move downward and adjust for underrated composers.

I think this project will look pretty good if we continue until all 50 composers are enshrined by reaching 450. If we end it on Saturday, I would say it's at best a Top 30 list.


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Chopin: 9 
Rachmaninoff: 8
Stravinsky: -3


----------



## Chopinator

Liszt: 10
Chopin: 9
Dvořák: 8
Tchaikovsky: 7
Handel: *-3*


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's list:

10 pts - Schumann, R
9 pts - Nielsen, C
8 pts - Arnold, Sir M
7 pts - Mendelssohn, Felix
6 pts - Sibelius, J
5 pts - Alfven, H
4 pts - Monteverdi, C
3 pts - Novak, V
2 pts - Dvorak, A
1 pts - Vaughan Williams, R


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Gustav Mahler · 10
Hans Rott · 9
Erik Satie · 8

Siegfried & Roy · -3


----------



## mmsbls

10 Dvořák
9 Mendelssohn
8 Tchaikovsky
7 Handel
6 Schumann
5 Mahler
4 Chopin
3 Sibelius
2 Debussy
1 Ravel

Stravinsky -3


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10-Chopin
9-Dvorak
8-Liszt
7-Handel
6-Mendessohn
5-Rimsky-Korsakov 
4-Tchaikovsky
3-CPE Bach
2-Hummel
1-Debussy

-3 Schumann


----------



## Cygnenoir

Mahler - 10
Stravinsky - 9
Grieg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Gershwin - 6
Adams - 5
Reich - 4
Crumb - 3
Penderecki - 2
Debussy - 1


----------



## Sonata

mmsbls said:


> 10 Dvořák
> 9 Mendelssohn
> 8 Tchaikovsky
> 7 Handel
> 6 Schumann
> 5 Mahler
> 4 Chopin
> 3 Sibelius
> 2 Debussy
> 1 Ravel
> 
> Stravinsky -3


Dvorak, Mendelssohn and Mahler all in your top ten for current votes....you're after my heart.


----------



## Sonata

And on that note:

Mendelssohn-10
Dvorak-9
Mahler-8
Prokoviev-7

Schumann- -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Chopin
9 - Handel
8 - Mendelssohn
7 - Ravel
6 - Schumann
5 - Monteverdi
4 - Glass
3 - Debussy 
2 - Bizet
1 - Satie

-3 - Mahler


----------



## pjang23

10 Debussy (Definitely should be top 10 IMO)
9 Stravinsky
8 Ravel
7 Strauss
6 Tchaikovsky
5 Palestrina
4 Sibelius
3 Prokofiev
2 Rimsky-Korsakov
1 Bartok
-3 S. Wagner

1. Bach - Permanent (Do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (Do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (Do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (Do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (Do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (Do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (Do not vote)
8. Handel - 415
9. Mahler - 401
10. Schumann - 393
11. Dvořák - 386
12. Debussy - 384
13. Mendelssohn - 382
14. Chopin - 358
15. Stravinsky - 317
16. Ravel - 316
17. Tchaikovsky - 285
18. Bartók - 231
19. Strauss, Richard - 215
20. Liszt - 203
21. Shostakovich - 196
22. Sibelius - 186
23. Prokofiev - 183
24. Monteverdi - 155
25. Messiaen - 146
25. Verdi - 146
27. Schoenberg - 125
28. Mussorgsky - 124
29. Berlioz - 112
30. Nielsen - 111
31. Scriabin - 107
32. Rachmaninoff - 106
33. Bruckner - 105
34. Janáček - 102
35. Ligeti - 81
36. Vaughan Williams - 73
37. Elgar - 68
38. Webern - 67
39. Fauré - 66
39. Palestrina - 66
41. Grieg - 62
42. Britten - 60
42. Vivaldi - 60
44. Gesualdo - 57
45. Berg - 55
46. Josquin - 53
47. Alfven - 52
48. Schnittke - 49
48. Villa-Lobos - 49
50. Puccini - 47
51. Barber - 46
51. Varèse - 46
53. Bizet - 45
54. Medtner - 43
55. Satie - 41
56. Saint-Saëns - 40
57. Scarlatti - 39
58. Arnold - 37
58. Hindemith - 37
60. Glass - 32
60. Rossini - 32
62. Reich - 31
63. Rimsky-Korsakov - 30
64. Ives - 25
65. Gershwin - 24
65. Gluck - 24
65. Lully - 24
65. Rameau - 24
69. Penderecki - 23
70. Copland - 22
70. Corelli - 22
70. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
70. Stockhausen - 22
70. Wagner, Siegfried - 22
75. Weber - 21
76. Novak - 20
77. Adams - 19
77. Pärt - 19
79. Rodrigo - 18
80. Gombert - 16
80. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Machaut - 16
83. Biber - 15
84. Takemitsu - 14
84. Tallis - 14
86. Bach, C.P.E. - 13
86. Bellini - 13
86. Smetana - 13
89. Purcell - 12
89. Schumann, Clara - 12
91. Harbison - 11
91. Hummel - 11
91. Liefs - 11
94. Delius - 10
94. Paganini - 10
94. Rudland - 10
97. Gojilov - 9
97. Holst - 9
97. Rott - 9
97. Xenakis - 9
101. Albeniz - 8
101. Byrd - 8
101. MacDowell - 8
101. Zimmerman - 8
105. Berio - 6
105. Boulez - 6
105. Locatelli - 6
105. Respighi - 6
105. Spohr - 6
105. Wohlfahrt - 6
111. Bach, J.C. - 5
111. Crumb - 5
111. Eberl - 5
111. Glazunov - 5
111. Hartmann - 5
111. Martinu - 5
111. Sorabji - 5
111. Telemann - 5
119. Borodin - 4
119. Clementi - 4
119. Gorecki - 4
119. Henze - 4
119. Hildegard - 4
124. Alkan - 3
124. Carter - 3
124. Simpson - 3
124. Skalkottas - 3
128. Allegri - 2
128. Brouwer - 2
128. Cherubini - 2
128. Danzi - 2
128. Donizetti - 2
128. Poulenc - 2
128. Strauss II, J. - 2
128. Tower - 2
136. Alwyn - 1
136. Bernstein - 1
136. Gubaidulina - 1
136. Meyerbeer - 1
136. Monti - 1
136. Offenbach - 1
142. Czerny - -3
143. Schobert - -8


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts - Schumann
9 Tchaikovsky
8 Debussy
7 bartok
6 Barber
5 Verdi
4 Stravinsky
3 Ravel
2 Berlioz
1 Saint-Saens

-3 S. Wagner


----------



## Air

10 Handel
9 Schumann
8 Prokofiev
7 Rameau
6 Varese
5 Villa-Lobos
4 Scarlatti
3 Verdi
2 Palestrina
1 Medtner

-3 Mahler


----------



## Conor71

10 Mendelssohn
9 Chopin
8 Ravel
7 Debussy
6 Tchaikovsky
5 Vaughan Williams
4 Shostakovich
3 Bruckner
2 Schumann
1 R. Strauss


----------



## Trout

10 Vivaldi
9 Verdi
8 Vaughan Williams
7 Puccini
6 Rossini
5 Josquin
4 Stravinsky
3 Mahler
2 Rimsky-Korsakov
1 Scarlatti

-3 Alfven


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Handel = +10
Verdi = +9
Richard Strauss = +8
Schumann = +7
Mendelssohn = +6
Stravinsky = +5
Chopin = +4
Liszt = +3
Debussy = +2
Ravel = +1

Mahler = -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Seems like Mahler and Tchaikovsky have fallen from favour with the forum crowd in comparison to the last poll in 2011.

I wonder what exactly caused this and would appreciate 357 well-written and extensive answers (minimum of 1,000 words for each) to this earthshaking question.


----------



## Arsakes

10. Dvorak
9. Handel
8. Sibelius
7. Schumann
6. Vivaldi
5. Shostakovitch
4. Liszt
3. Rachmaninoff
2. Mussorgsky
1. Korsakov

-3 Mahler


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Debussy
8: Bartok
7: Mendelssohn
6: Monteverdi
5: Villa-Lobos
4: Schnittke
3: D Scarlatti
2: Handel
1: Gluck


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Richard Strauss +10
2. Tchaikovsky +9
3. Mahler +8
4. Gabriel Faure +7
5 Debussy +6
6. Handel +5
7. Schumann +4
8. Verdi +3
9. Rimsky-Korsakov +2
10. Bruckner +1

Stravinsky -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Schumann +10

Mahler minus 3


----------



## Turangalîla

Very Senior Member said:


> Schumann +10
> 
> Mahler minus 3


You are my hero! Mahler is _much_ too high in the rankings, and Schumann should be in the top five IMO.

My vote:

Schumann - 10
Ravel - 9
Messiaen - 8
Mussorgsky - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Mendelssohn - 5
Chopin - 4
Palestrina - 3
Glass - 2
Adams - 1

Mahler -3 (I normally reserve this for Debussy, but not today...)


----------



## Air

Handel needs one more point to make it. Anyone? 

Edit: And I believe Schumann has made it in already! (452 points)


----------



## pjang23

Air said:


> Handel needs one more point to make it. Anyone?
> 
> Edit: And I believe Schumann has made it in already! (452 points)


Yes, your math correct. However, Schumann made a 20 point gain when Handel was at 449, so his finish above Handel was decided by an arbitrary 450 goal point. Is everyone fine with this, or should we have a tiebreaker vote between Handel and Schumann?

1. Bach - Permanent (do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (do not vote)
8. Schumann - Permanent (do not vote)
9. Handel - 449
10. Debussy - 416
11. Mendelssohn - 410
12. Mahler - 397
13. Dvořák - 396
14. Chopin - 375
15. Ravel - 347
16. Stravinsky - 327
17. Tchaikovsky - 309
18. Bartók - 246
19. Strauss, Richard - 234
20. Liszt - 210
21. Shostakovich - 205
22. Sibelius - 194
23. Prokofiev - 191
24. Verdi - 175
25. Monteverdi - 161
26. Messiaen - 154
27. Mussorgsky - 133
28. Schoenberg - 131
29. Berlioz - 114
30. Nielsen - 111
31. Bruckner - 109
31. Rachmaninoff - 109
33. Scriabin - 107
34. Janáček - 102
35. Vaughan Williams - 86
36. Ligeti - 81
37. Vivaldi - 77
38. Fauré - 73
39. Palestrina - 71
40. Elgar - 68
41. Webern - 67
42. Grieg - 62
43. Britten - 60
44. Villa-Lobos - 59
45. Josquin - 58
46. Gesualdo - 57
47. Berg - 55
48. Puccini - 54
49. Schnittke - 53
50. Barber - 52
50. Varèse - 52
52. Alfven - 49
53. Scarlatti - 47
54. Bizet - 45
55. Medtner - 44
56. Saint-Saëns - 41
56. Satie - 41
58. Rossini - 38
59. Arnold - 37
59. Hindemith - 37
61. Rimsky-Korsakov - 35
62. Glass - 34
63. Rameau - 31
63. Reich - 31
65. Gluck - 26
66. Ives - 25
67. Gershwin - 24
67. Lully - 24
69. Penderecki - 23
70. Copland - 22
70. Corelli - 22
70. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
70. Stockhausen - 22
74. Weber - 21
75. Adams - 20
75. Novak - 20
77. Pärt - 19
77. Wagner, Siegfried - 19
79. Rodrigo - 18
80. Gombert - 16
80. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Machaut - 16
83. Biber - 15
84. Takemitsu - 14
84. Tallis - 14
86. Bach, C.P.E. - 13
86. Bellini - 13
86. Smetana - 13
89. Purcell - 12
89. Schumann, Clara - 12
91. Harbison - 11
91. Hummel - 11
91. Liefs - 11
94. Delius - 10
94. Paganini - 10
94. Rudland - 10
97. Gojilov - 9
97. Holst - 9
97. Rott - 9
97. Xenakis - 9
101. Albeniz - 8
101. Byrd - 8
101. MacDowell - 8
101. Zimmerman - 8
105. Berio - 6
105. Boulez - 6
105. Locatelli - 6
105. Respighi - 6
105. Spohr - 6
105. Wohlfahrt - 6
111. Bach, J.C. - 5
111. Crumb - 5
111. Eberl - 5
111. Glazunov - 5
111. Hartmann - 5
111. Martinu - 5
111. Sorabji - 5
111. Telemann - 5
119. Borodin - 4
119. Clementi - 4
119. Gorecki - 4
119. Henze - 4
119. Hildegard - 4
124. Alkan - 3
124. Carter - 3
124. Simpson - 3
124. Skalkottas - 3
128. Allegri - 2
128. Brouwer - 2
128. Cherubini - 2
128. Danzi - 2
128. Donizetti - 2
128. Poulenc - 2
128. Strauss II, J. - 2
128. Tower - 2
136. Alwyn - 1
136. Bernstein - 1
136. Gubaidulina - 1
136. Meyerbeer - 1
136. Monti - 1
136. Offenbach - 1
142. Czerny - -3
143. Schobert - -8


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Air said:


> Handel needs one more point to make it. Anyone?
> 
> Edit: And I believe Schumann has made it in already! (452 points)


In tiefem Gram verzehr ich mich,
Mir ist die Freude hin,
Auf Erden mir die Hoffnung wich,
Ich hier so einsam bin.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Stravinsky
9. Bartok
8. Messiaen
7. Shostakovich
6. Prokofiev
5. Janacek
4. Ligeti
3. Vaughan Williams
2. Villa-Lobos
1. Gershwin


----------



## pjang23

Toddlertoddy said:


> 4. Ligeti
> 1. Ligeti


Made a mistake?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

Yes, I did.


----------



## Chopinator

10 Liszt
9 Dvorak
8 Chopin
-3 Handel


----------



## science

10 pts. Debussy
9. Dvořák
8. Stravinsky
7. Shostakovich
6. Bartók
5. Liszt
4. Verdi
3. Monteverdi
2. Schoenberg
1 pt. Rachmaninoff
-3. Schobert


----------



## Lisztian

10. Liszt.
9. Rachmaninoff.
8. Berlioz.
7. Scriabin.
6. Grieg.
5. Ligeti.
4. Mahler.
3. Tchaikovsky.
2. Bellini.
1. Debussy.


----------



## Arsakes

before you vote:

Don't forget that Dvorak has lots of great works in Symphonies, String Quartets, Piano works, suites, symphonic pieces, dances, and choral works ... unlike Debussy that most of his work is like Sonatas!


----------



## Cygnenoir

Mahler - 10
Stravinsky - 9
Grieg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Prokofiev - 6
Adams - 5
Reich - 4
Crumb - 3
Penderecki - 2
Debussy - 1

Mendelssohn -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Mahler · 10
Prokofiev · 9
Rott · 8
Tchaikovsky · 7
Mendelssohn · 6
Stravinsky · 5

Wolfgang Petry · -3


----------



## tdc

pjang23 said:


> Yes, your math correct. However, Schumann made a 20 point gain when Handel was at 449, so his finish above Handel was decided by an arbitrary 450 goal point. Is everyone fine with this, or should we have a tiebreaker vote between Handel and Schumann?


I edited my post - I didn't realize Handel was that close.


----------



## Trout

10 Mahler
9 Strauss
8 Stravinsky
7 Shostakovich
6 Vaughan Williams
5 Bruckner
4 Josquin
3 Prokofiev
2 Puccini
1 Rossini

-3 Alfven


----------



## Turangalîla

pjang23 said:


> Yes, your math correct. However, Schumann made a 20 point gain when Handel was at 449, so his finish above Handel was decided by an arbitrary 450 goal point. Is everyone fine with this, or should we have a tiebreaker vote between Handel and Schumann?


I realize that some people do not like the 450-point goal system at all, and so if everyone wants a separate vote between Schumann and Handel, we can do that. I, however, don't think it's necessary-Handel is great, but I think that all of his fans should be happy with a ninth-place finish.


----------



## Turangalîla

tdc said:


> I edited my post - I didn't realize Handel was that close.


I'm not sure that you can "edit" your vote from yesterday after you realize how some other people have voted...


----------



## Turangalîla

And _nobody_ has given Handel the point he needs yet! In fact, someone gave him a -3!

I'll vote:

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Mendelssohn - 7
Chopin - 6
Schoenberg - 5
Handel - 4
Glass - 3
Adams - 2
Gesualdo - 1

Edit: Debussy -3


----------



## mmsbls

10 Dvořák
9 Mendelssohn
8 Tchaikovsky
7 Handel
6 Mahler
5 Chopin
4 Sibelius
3 Debussy
2 Ravel
1 Prokofiev

Messiaen -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

mmsbls said:


> 7 Handel


He's in as the permanent #9 now, so you can change your vote if you want to.


----------



## Sonata

Mahler-10
Mendelssohn-9
Dvorak-8
Strauss-7
Puccini-6
Chopin-5
Rachmaninov-4
Prokofiev-3

Debussy- -3


----------



## leomarillier

+10 Mahler
+9 Richard Strauss
+8 Schoenberg
+7 Bruckner
+6 Scriabin
+5 Liszt
+4 Debussy
+3 Messiaen
+2 Schumann
+1 Berlioz

-3 Dvorak


----------



## Trout

Mahler should be in now, placing him 10th.


----------



## Sonata

Awesome!


----------



## Arsakes

Trout said:


> Mahler should be in now, placing him 10th.


As long as Dvorak be higher than Debussy, I have no problem with that


----------



## tdc

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> I'm not sure that you can "edit" your vote from yesterday after you realize how some other people have voted...


Oh well, it was worth a try, with all due respect to Schumann whose music I feel is great - 8th is a little high for him imo, it also makes our top ten seem a little ethnocentric. This is NOT a top ten I am overly happy with, but its TCer's choice! (I'm too nice for never using my neg. votes).


----------



## pjang23

I love both Mendelssohn and Dvorak and am happy with their high finishes, though I personally couldn't place them above Debussy.

10 Debussy
9 Strauss
8 Stravinsky
7 Ravel
6 Shostakovich
5 Prokofiev
4 Tchaikovsky
3 Barber
2 Puccini
1 Rimsky-Korsakov
-3 Mendelssohn

Current Standings: Handel and Mahler are in

****In case anyone missed it, Schumann made a 20 point gain to finish 8th when Handel was at exactly 449 points. If you would like a tie-breaker vote between Schumann and Handel (particularly tdc and StlukesguildOhio who could have changed the result if they knew earlier) we can do one.*

1. Bach - Permanent (do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (do not vote)
8. Schumann - Permanent (do not vote)***
9. Handel - Permanent (do not vote)***
10. Mahler - Permanent (do not vote)
11. Debussy - 439
12. Mendelssohn - 435
13. Dvořák - 429
14. Chopin - 399
15. Stravinsky - 375
16. Ravel - 366
17. Tchaikovsky - 331
18. Strauss, Richard - 268
19. Bartók - 261
20. Liszt - 240
21. Shostakovich - 232
22. Prokofiev - 224
23. Sibelius - 198
24. Verdi - 179
25. Messiaen - 171
26. Monteverdi - 164
27. Schoenberg - 146
28. Mussorgsky - 141
29. Berlioz - 123
29. Rachmaninoff - 123
31. Bruckner - 121
32. Scriabin - 120
33. Nielsen - 111
34. Janáček - 107
35. Ligeti - 97
36. Vaughan Williams - 95
37. Vivaldi - 77
38. Grieg - 76
39. Fauré - 73
40. Palestrina - 71
41. Elgar - 68
42. Webern - 67
43. Puccini - 64
44. Josquin - 62
45. Villa-Lobos - 61
46. Britten - 60
47. Gesualdo - 58
48. Barber - 55
48. Berg - 55
50. Schnittke - 53
51. Varèse - 52
52. Scarlatti - 47
53. Alfven - 46
54. Bizet - 45
55. Medtner - 44
56. Saint-Saëns - 41
56. Satie - 41
58. Rossini - 39
59. Arnold - 37
59. Glass - 37
59. Hindemith - 37
62. Rimsky-Korsakov - 36
63. Reich - 35
64. Rameau - 31
65. Adams - 27
66. Gluck - 26
67. Gershwin - 25
67. Ives - 25
67. Penderecki - 25
70. Lully - 24
71. Copland - 22
71. Corelli - 22
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
71. Stockhausen - 22
75. Weber - 21
76. Novak - 20
77. Pärt - 19
77. Wagner, Siegfried - 19
79. Rodrigo - 18
80. Rott - 17
81. Gombert - 16
81. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Machaut - 16
84. Bellini - 15
84. Biber - 15
86. Takemitsu - 14
86. Tallis - 14
88. Bach, C.P.E. - 13
88. Smetana - 13
90. Purcell - 12
90. Schumann, Clara - 12
92. Harbison - 11
92. Hummel - 11
92. Liefs - 11
95. Delius - 10
95. Paganini - 10
95. Rudland - 10
98. Gojilov - 9
98. Holst - 9
98. Xenakis - 9
101. Albeniz - 8
101. Byrd - 8
101. Crumb - 8
101. MacDowell - 8
101. Zimmerman - 8
106. Berio - 6
106. Boulez - 6
106. Locatelli - 6
106. Respighi - 6
106. Spohr - 6
106. Wohlfahrt - 6
112. Bach, J.C. - 5
112. Eberl - 5
112. Glazunov - 5
112. Hartmann - 5
112. Martinu - 5
112. Sorabji - 5
112. Telemann - 5
119. Borodin - 4
119. Clementi - 4
119. Gorecki - 4
119. Henze - 4
119. Hildegard - 4
124. Alkan - 3
124. Carter - 3
124. Simpson - 3
124. Skalkottas - 3
128. Allegri - 2
128. Brouwer - 2
128. Cherubini - 2
128. Danzi - 2
128. Donizetti - 2
128. Poulenc - 2
128. Strauss II, Johann - 2
128. Tower - 2
136. Alwyn - 1
136. Bernstein - 1
136. Gubaidulina - 1
136. Meyerbeer - 1
136. Monti - 1
136. Offenbach - 1
142. Czerny - -3
143. Schobert - -11


----------



## StevenOBrien

I don't think there's any harm in having a tie breaker.

10 - Mendelssohn
9 - Chopin
8 - Stravinsky
7 - Prokofiev
6 - Ravel
5 - Tchaikovsky
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Bizet
2 - Glass
1 - Berlioz

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stravinsky
9 Shostakovich
8 Bartok
7 Schoenberg
6 Stockhausen
5 Xenakis
4 Ferneyhough
3 Ligeti
2 Penderecki
1 Messiaen

-3 Chopin


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Looks like the top 10 composers are exclusively of German/Austrian heritage this time around.


----------



## Very Senior Member

pjang23 said:


> In case anyone missed it, Schumann made a 20 point gain to finish 8th when Handel was at exactly 449 points. If you would like a tie-breaker vote between Schumann and Handel (particularly tdc and StlukesguildOhio who could have changed the result if they knew earlier) we can do one.


 I don't see any justification for a trie-breaker? The 450 cut-off has been applied to previous selections, and Schumann achieved more than 450 quicker than Handel, so I don't see what the logic is in offering a different treatment in this case. If some people weren't counting the votes correctly, or might have voted differently in regard to Handel and Schumann if they had perfect foresight of the results, that's part of the rough and tumble of an exercise like this isn't it?


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> I don't see any justification for a trie-breaker? The 450 cut-off has been applied to previous selections, and Schumann achieved more than 450 quicker than Handel, so I don't see what the logic is in offering a different treatment in this case. If some people weren't counting the votes correctly, or might have voted differently in regard to Handel and Schumann if they had perfect foresight of the results, that's part of the rough and tumble of an exercise like this isn't it?


Simply to be more representative, as Handel was pretty much already there. Anyway, the difference between 8 & 9 is not a big deal, and if there's not much support for a vote (which seems like the case), we can leave it as it is.


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 pts - Elgar, E
9 pts - Nielsen, C
8 pts - Alfven, H
7 pts - Grieg, E
6 pts - Mendelssohn, Felix
5 pts - Sibelius, J
4 pts - Arnold, Sir M
3 pts - Vaughan Williams, R
2 pts - Harbison, J
1 pt - Alwyn, W


----------



## Conor71

10 Mendelssohn
9 Chopin
8 Bruckner
7 R. Strauss
6 Sibelius
5 Messiaen
4 Shostakovich
3 Debussy
2 Ravel
1 Tchaikovsky


----------



## crmoorhead

10pts Verdi
9 Bartok
8 Shostakovich
7 Liszt
6 Berlioz
5 Tchaikovsky
4 Barber
3 Saint Saens
2 Rossini
1 Schoenberg

-3 Siegfried Wagner


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

I'm glad Handel is in the Top 10. I'm now just manipulating numbers/giving some a higher looking score. 

Johann Christian Bach = +10
Verdi = +9
Tchaikovsky = +8
R. Strauss = +7
Vivaldi = +6
Gluck = +5
Monteverdi = +4
Hummel = +3
Telemann = +2
Rameau = +1

Sibelius = -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Mendelssohn is in

1. Bach - Permanent (do not vote)
2. Mozart - Permanent (do not vote)
3. Beethoven - Permanent (do not vote)
4. Schubert - Permanent (do not vote)
5. Brahms - Permanent (do not vote)
6. Wagner - Permanent (do not vote)
7. Haydn - Permanent (do not vote)
8. Schumann - Permanent (do not vote)
9. Handel - Permanent (do not vote)
10. Mahler - Permanent (do not vote)
11. Mendelssohn - Permanent (do not vote)
12. Debussy - 442
13. Dvořák - 429
14. Chopin - 414
15. Stravinsky - 393
16. Ravel - 374
17. Tchaikovsky - 350
18. Strauss, Richard - 282
19. Bartók - 278
20. Shostakovich - 257
21. Liszt - 247
22. Prokofiev - 231
23. Sibelius - 206
24. Verdi - 198
25. Messiaen - 177
26. Monteverdi - 168
27. Schoenberg - 154
28. Mussorgsky - 141
29. Berlioz - 130
30. Bruckner - 129
31. Rachmaninoff - 123
32. Nielsen - 120
32. Scriabin - 120
34. Janáček - 107
35. Ligeti - 100
36. Vaughan Williams - 98
37. Grieg - 83
37. Vivaldi - 83
39. Elgar - 78
40. Fauré - 73
41. Palestrina - 71
42. Webern - 67
43. Puccini - 64
44. Josquin - 62
45. Villa-Lobos - 61
46. Britten - 60
47. Barber - 59
48. Gesualdo - 58
49. Berg - 55
50. Alfven - 54
51. Schnittke - 53
52. Varèse - 52
53. Bizet - 48
54. Scarlatti - 47
55. Medtner - 44
55. Saint-Saëns - 44
57. Arnold - 41
57. Rossini - 41
57. Satie - 41
60. Glass - 39
61. Hindemith - 37
62. Rimsky-Korsakov - 36
63. Reich - 35
64. Rameau - 32
65. Gluck - 31
66. Stockhausen - 28
67. Adams - 27
67. Penderecki - 27
69. Gershwin - 25
69. Ives - 25
71. Lully - 24
72. Copland - 22
72. Corelli - 22
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 22
75. Weber - 21
76. Novak - 20
77. Pärt - 19
78. Rodrigo - 18
79. Rott - 17
80. Gombert - 16
80. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Machaut - 16
83. Bach, J.C. - 15
83. Bellini - 15
83. Biber - 15
86. Hummel - 14
86. Takemitsu - 14
86. Tallis - 14
86. Xenakis - 14
90. Bach, C.P.E. - 13
90. Harbison - 13
90. Smetana - 13
90. Wagner, Siegfried - 13
94. Purcell - 12
94. Schumann, Clara - 12
96. Liefs - 11
97. Delius - 10
97. Paganini - 10
97. Rudland - 10
100. Gojilov - 9
100. Holst - 9
102. Albeniz - 8
102. Byrd - 8
102. Crumb - 8
102. MacDowell - 8
102. Zimmerman - 8
107. Telemann - 7
108. Berio - 6
108. Boulez - 6
108. Locatelli - 6
108. Respighi - 6
108. Spohr - 6
108. Wohlfahrt - 6
114. Eberl - 5
114. Glazunov - 5
114. Hartmann - 5
114. Martinu - 5
114. Sorabji - 5
119. Borodin - 4
119. Clementi - 4
119. Ferneyhough - 4
119. Gorecki - 4
119. Henze - 4
119. Hildegard - 4
125. Alkan - 3
125. Carter - 3
125. Simpson - 3
125. Skalkottas - 3
129. Allegri - 2
129. Alwyn - 2
129. Brouwer - 2
129. Cherubini - 2
129. Danzi - 2
129. Donizetti - 2
129. Poulenc - 2
129. Strauss II, Johann - 2
129. Tower - 2
138. Bernstein - 1
138. Gubaidulina - 1
138. Meyerbeer - 1
138. Monti - 1
138. Offenbach - 1
143. Czerny - -3
144. Schobert - -11


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Debussy
8: Bartok
7: Monteverdi
6: Bruckner
5: Villa-Lobos
4: Schnittke
3: Gluck 
2: Vivaldi
1: D Scarlatti


----------



## pjang23

tdc said:


> 10: Ravel
> 9: Debussy
> 8: Bartok
> 7: Monteverdi
> 6: Bruckner
> 5: Villa-Lobos
> 4: Schnittke
> 3: Gluck
> 2: Vivaldi
> 1: D Scarlatti


As of tdc's vote, Debussy is in! I'll wait for some more posts before updating.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

_Mahler should be in now, placing him 10th._

As long as Dvorak be higher than Debussy, I have no problem with that

_As of tdc's vote, Debussy is in!_

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Arsakes

StlukesguildOhio said:


> _Mahler should be in now, placing him 10th._
> 
> As long as Dvorak be higher than Debussy, I have no problem with that
> 
> _As of tdc's vote, Debussy is in!_
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:


My reaction:  :scold:

Pfft .. I felt another cunning plan to avoid good composers being in their appropriate places! First Brahms, now Dvorak...

10. Dvořák
9. Vivaldi 
8. Sibelius
7. Shostakovich
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Liszt
4. Mussorgsky
3. Bruckner
2. Ippolitov-Ivanov
1. Ravel


----------



## TrazomGangflow

10-Chopin
9-Dvorak
8-Liszt
7-Tchaikovsky
6-Grieg
5-Strauss
4-Faure
3-Czerny
2-Gershwin
1-Bach C.P.E.

-3 Stravinsky


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Pfft .. I felt another cunning plan to avoid good composers being in their appropriate places! First Brahms, now Dvorak...

Dvorak is certainly a great composer... but I don't see him as at all underrated in the current standings... unlike poor Tchaikovsky.

1. Richard Strauss +10
2. Tchaikovsky +9
3. Gabriel Faure +8
4. Verdi +7
5. Rachmaninoff +6
6. Monteverdi +5
7. Vivaldi +4
8. Rameau +3
9. Gluck +2
10. Puccini +1

Stravinsky -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Tchaikovsky 10 
Liszt 9 
Chopin 8 
Monteverdi 7 
Elgar 6 
Vivaldi 5 
Saint-Saens 4 
Sibelius 3 
Dvorak 2 
Stravinsky 1 
Messiaen -3

N.B.> I reckon that this now places *Dvorak in 13th spot*, with exactly 450 points, but please do the "sums" yourself to check before considering your vote.


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> N.B.> I reckon that this now places *Dvorak in 13th spot*, with exactly 450 points, but please do the "sums" yourself to check before considering your vote.


You're correct!

Current Standings: Debussy and Dvorak are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin - 432
15. Stravinsky - 388
16. Ravel - 385
17. Tchaikovsky - 376
18. Strauss, Richard - 297
19. Bartók - 286
20. Liszt - 269
21. Shostakovich - 264
22. Prokofiev - 231
23. Verdi - 214
24. Sibelius - 209
25. Monteverdi - 187
26. Messiaen - 174
27. Schoenberg - 154
28. Mussorgsky - 145
29. Bruckner - 138
30. Rachmaninoff - 137
31. Berlioz - 136
32. Nielsen - 120
32. Scriabin - 120
34. Janáček - 107
35. Ligeti - 100
36. Vaughan Williams - 98
37. Vivaldi - 94
38. Grieg - 89
39. Fauré - 85
40. Elgar - 84
41. Palestrina - 71
42. Webern - 67
43. Villa-Lobos - 66
44. Puccini - 65
45. Josquin - 62
46. Britten - 60
47. Barber - 59
48. Gesualdo - 58
49. Schnittke - 57
50. Berg - 55
51. Alfven - 54
52. Varèse - 52
53. Bizet - 48
53. Saint-Saëns - 48
53. Scarlatti - 48
56. Medtner - 44
57. Arnold - 41
57. Rossini - 41
57. Satie - 41
60. Glass - 39
61. Hindemith - 37
62. Gluck - 36
62. Rimsky-Korsakov - 36
64. Rameau - 35
64. Reich - 35
66. Stockhausen - 28
67. Adams - 27
67. Gershwin - 27
67. Penderecki - 27
70. Ives - 25
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 24
71. Lully - 24
73. Copland - 22
73. Corelli - 22
75. Weber - 21
76. Novak - 20
77. Pärt - 19
78. Rodrigo - 18
79. Rott - 17
80. Gombert - 16
80. Lutoslawski - 16
80. Machaut - 16
83. Bach, J.C. - 15
83. Bellini - 15
83. Biber - 15
86. Bach, C.P.E. - 14
86. Hummel - 14
86. Takemitsu - 14
86. Tallis - 14
86. Xenakis - 14
91. Harbison - 13
91. Smetana - 13
91. Wagner, Siegfried - 13
94. Purcell - 12
94. Schumann, Clara - 12
96. Liefs - 11
97. Delius - 10
97. Paganini - 10
97. Rudland - 10
100. Gojilov - 9
100. Holst - 9
102. Albeniz - 8
102. Byrd - 8
102. Crumb - 8
102. MacDowell - 8
102. Zimmerman - 8
107. Telemann - 7
108. Berio - 6
108. Boulez - 6
108. Locatelli - 6
108. Respighi - 6
108. Spohr - 6
108. Wohlfahrt - 6
114. Eberl - 5
114. Glazunov - 5
114. Hartmann - 5
114. Martinu - 5
114. Sorabji - 5
119. Borodin - 4
119. Clementi - 4
119. Ferneyhough - 4
119. Gorecki - 4
119. Henze - 4
119. Hildegard - 4
125. Alkan - 3
125. Carter - 3
125. Simpson - 3
125. Skalkottas - 3
129. Allegri - 2
129. Alwyn - 2
129. Brouwer - 2
129. Cherubini - 2
129. Danzi - 2
129. Donizetti - 2
129. Poulenc - 2
129. Strauss II, Johann - 2
129. Tower - 2
138. Bernstein - 1
138. Gubaidulina - 1
138. Meyerbeer - 1
138. Monti - 1
138. Offenbach - 1
143. Schobert - -11


----------



## Turangalîla

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> *RULE ANNOUNCEMENT*: While Bach is very close to the 450 mark, no one has reached it yet. I am *keeping* the rule that a composer must reach 450 to be put on a permanent list (where his position or rank cannot be altered, and all votes for them will not count any longer), but, obviously, I am not waiting for all 50 composers to reach 450 points, that would be unrealistic. (Right now, number 50, Hindemith, has only 24 votes). You all have *seven days* (beginning tomorrow, Sunday, June 10, and ending on-but still including-Saturday, June 16) to get your top picks onto the permanent list so you can focus on other composers. ALL VOTES MUST BE POSTED BY THE MIDNIGHT AFTER JUNE 16 (and in MY time zone, Pacific Time Zone).


I posted this on the 9th. Does anyone remember the voting cutoff date? If no one read it/remembered it, then I guess we can continue...

(And if we need to do any business with time zones, I vote that we adopt pjang's time zone as the new official one, since he has graciously volunteered to count the votes )


----------



## pjang23

I'm in the same time zone as you. I think it's definitely worth continuing, as the quality of the tail end of the list will improve as we go down.


----------



## science

I'd be willing to continue as long as pjang23 is willing to figure out the votes!


----------



## science

About time for me to vote again: 

10. Stravinsky
9. Verdi
8. Enescu
7. Vivaldi
6. Monteverdi
5. Donizetti
4. Albeniz
3. Strauss, Johan II
2. Delius
1. Takemitsu
-3 Schobert


----------



## Couchie

Siegfried Wagner: 10 points
Schobert: 9 points
R. Strauss: 8 points
Puccini: 2 points 

Mendelssohn: -3 points


----------



## science

The frustration of my Schobert project relieves me, for S. Wagner really does need some -3 votes!


----------



## DeepR

Chopin: 10
Scriabin: 9
Liszt: 8
Stravinsky: -3


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 pts - Nielsen
9 pts - Elgar
8 pts - Prokofiev
7 pts - Barber
6 pts - Alfven
5 pts - Vaughan Williams
4 pts - Shostakovich
3 pts - Sibelius
2 pts - Monteverdi
1 pt - Grieg


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Rossini
8 Bruckner
7 Stravinsky
6 Josquin
5 Berg
4 Puccini
3 Webern
2 Vivaldi
1 Strauss

-3 Alfven


----------



## Turangalîla

Ravel - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Chopin - 7
Schoenberg - 6
Ligeti - 5
Berg - 4
Webern - 3
Palestrina - 2
Gesualdo - 1

Liszt -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Stravinsky - 10
Prokofiev - 9
Grieg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Sibelius - 6
Adams - 5
Reich - 4
Bruckner - 3
Penderecki - 2
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Tchaikovsky
9.	Sibelius
8.	Chopin
7.	Ravel
6.	Prokofiev
5.	Shostakovich
4.	Liszt
3.	Strauss
2.	Bruckner
1.	Vivaldi

-3	Stravinsky


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Chopin (I think this puts him in as 14?)
9 - Ravel
8 - Stravinsky
7 - Berlioz
6 - Tchaikovsky
5 - Prokofiev
4 - Shostakovich
3 - Glass
2 - Monteverdi
1 - Verdi

-3 - Siegfried Wagner

EDIT: Who vaporized Czerny?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Stravinsky
9. Bartok
8. Shostakovich
7. Schoenberg
6. Berg
5. Webern
4. Scriabin
3. Prokofiev
2. Tchaikovsky
1. Glass


----------



## pjang23

10 Shostakovich
9 Rimsky-Korsakov
8 Strauss
7 Stravinsky
6 Tchaikovsky
5 Puccini
4 Prokofiev
3 Faure
2 Sibelius
1 Ravel
-3 S. Wagner

Current Standings: Chopin is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Stravinsky - 434
16. Ravel - 412
17. Tchaikovsky - 400
18. Strauss, Richard - 317
19. Bartók - 295
19. Shostakovich - 295
21. Liszt - 278
22. Prokofiev - 266
23. Sibelius - 229
24. Verdi - 224
25. Monteverdi - 197
26. Messiaen - 183
27. Schoenberg - 168
28. Mussorgsky - 153
29. Bruckner - 151
30. Berlioz - 143
31. Rachmaninoff - 137
32. Scriabin - 133
33. Nielsen - 130
34. Vaughan Williams - 113
35. Ligeti - 112
36. Janáček - 107
37. Vivaldi - 104
38. Grieg - 98
39. Elgar - 93
40. Fauré - 88
41. Webern - 78
42. Puccini - 76
43. Palestrina - 73
44. Berg - 70
45. Josquin - 68
46. Barber - 66
46. Villa-Lobos - 66
48. Britten - 60
49. Gesualdo - 59
50. Alfven - 57
50. Schnittke - 57
52. Varèse - 52
53. Rossini - 50
54. Bizet - 48
54. Saint-Saëns - 48
54. Scarlatti - 48
57. Rimsky-Korsakov - 45
58. Medtner - 44
59. Glass - 43
60. Arnold - 41
60. Satie - 41
62. Reich - 39
63. Hindemith - 37
64. Gluck - 36
65. Rameau - 35
66. Adams - 32
67. Penderecki - 29
68. Stockhausen - 28
69. Gershwin - 27
70. Ives - 25
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 24
71. Lully - 24
73. Copland - 22
73. Corelli - 22
75. Weber - 21
76. Novak - 20
77. Pärt - 19
78. Rodrigo - 18
79. Rott - 17
79. Wagner, Siegfried - 17
81. Gombert - 16
81. Lutoslawski - 16
81. Machaut - 16
84. Bach, J.C. - 15
84. Bellini - 15
84. Biber - 15
84. Takemitsu - 15
88. Bach, C.P.E. - 14
88. Hummel - 14
88. Tallis - 14
88. Xenakis - 14
92. Harbison - 13
92. Smetana - 13
94. Albeniz - 12
94. Delius - 12
94. Purcell - 12
94. Schumann, Clara - 12
98. Liefs - 11
99. Paganini - 10
99. Rudland - 10
101. Gojilov - 9
101. Holst - 9
103. Byrd - 8
103. Crumb - 8
103. Enescu - 8
103. MacDowell - 8
103. Zimmerman - 8
108. Donizetti - 7
108. Telemann - 7
110. Berio - 6
110. Boulez - 6
110. Locatelli - 6
110. Respighi - 6
110. Spohr - 6
110. Wohlfahrt - 6
116. Eberl - 5
116. Glazunov - 5
116. Hartmann - 5
116. Martinu - 5
116. Sorabji - 5
116. Strauss II, Johann - 5
122. Borodin - 4
122. Clementi - 4
122. Ferneyhough - 4
122. Gorecki - 4
122. Henze - 4
122. Hildegard - 4
128. Alkan - 3
128. Carter - 3
128. Simpson - 3
128. Skalkottas - 3
132. Allegri - 2
132. Alwyn - 2
132. Brouwer - 2
132. Cherubini - 2
132. Danzi - 2
132. Poulenc - 2
132. Tower - 2
139. Bernstein - 1
139. Gubaidulina - 1
139. Meyerbeer - 1
139. Monti - 1
139. Offenbach - 1
144. Schobert - -5


----------



## crmoorhead

Just in time!

10. Verdi
9. Tchaikovsky
8. Bartok
7. Liszt
6. Shostakovich
5. Stravinsky
4. Barber
3. Rossini
2. Saint-Saens
1. Britten

-3 S. Wagner


----------



## Sonata

10- Tchaikovsky
9-Faure
8-Prokoviev
7-Monteverdi 
6-Puccini
5-Gorecki
4-C. Scumann
3- Sibelius
2-Palestrina
1-Gesualdo

-3 Stravinsky


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Puccini = +10
Verdi = +9
Tchaikovsky = +8
CPE Bach = +7
JC Bach = +6
Vivaldi = +5
Lully = +4
Vivaldi = +3
Telemann = +2
Rameau = +1

Sibelius = -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Tchaikovsky · 10
Satie · 9
Prokofiev · 8
Rott · 7
Saint-Saëns · 6 (just realized he was _that_ far behind; initially I regarded him as top 15 or 20 'material')
Telemann · 5

Frank Farian · -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Puccini = +10
Verdi = +9
Tchaikovsky = +8
CPE Bach = +7
JC Bach = +6
Vivaldi = +5
Lully = +4
Vivaldi = +3
Telemann = +2
Rameau = +1

Sibelius = -3

Yes! It is somewhat depressing that the top 30 as of now are exclusively Romantic or Post-Romantic/Early Modernist composers... with the exception of Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Handel and Monteverdi (and Beethoven if we count him as of the "classical era" as opposed to Romantic). In the top 30 we find 2 Baroque composers, 2 composers from the classical era, 1 composer that straddled the Renaissance into the Baroque, and 1 composer that straddled the classical era into Romanticism. All the rest are Romantics/Post-Romantic/Early Modernists. If we look further... into the top 40 we gain one more Baroque composer (Vivaldi) and the first post-WWII composer (Ligeti). If we continue down the list to no. 50 we finally gain a few Renaissance composers (Palestrina, Josquin, and Gesualdo) but we have to go down the list to no. 81 (Machaut) until we come across the first medieval composer. And surely it says something about the popularity of opera at the sight (which makes Wagner's top-ten showing all the more impressive) when Donizetti and Bellini both rank further down than Machaut.:lol:


----------



## tdc

10: Ravel
9: Bartok
8: Monteverdi
7: Villa-Lobos
6: Bruckner
5: Schnittke
4: Vivaldi
3: Rameau
2: Gluck
1: Lully


----------



## crmoorhead

59. Glass - 43
60. Arnold - 41
60. Satie - 41
62. Reich - 39
63. Hindemith - 37
64. Gluck - 36
65. Rameau - 35
66. Adams - 32
67. Penderecki - 29
68. Stockhausen - 28
69. Gershwin - 27
70. Ives - 25
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 24
71. Lully - 24
73. Copland - 22

Interesting little clump of American composers...


----------



## science

I'd guess that Mozart's and Handel's high rankings were at least a bit affected by their operas.

Is anyone _surprised_ to discover that romantic and early modern music is the most popular?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

science said:


> Is anyone _surprised_ to discover that romantic and early modern music is the most popular?


On this forum, no. In the general public, yes because who the hell is Wagner?


----------



## Arsakes

10. Sibelius
9. Vivaldi 
8. Berlioz
7. Shostakovich
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Liszt
4. Saint-Saens
3. Bruckner
2. Mussorgsky
1. Ippolitov-Ivanov

- 3 Stravinsky


----------



## Couchie

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Donizetti and Bellini both rank further down than Machaut.:lol:


Siegfried Wagner was a greater opera composer than Bellini.

You read it it here first.


----------



## Couchie

Toddlertoddy said:


> On this forum, no. In the general public, yes because who the hell is Wagner?


The public knows him but by other names... he is called Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, Vishnu....


----------



## Sid James

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> ...Saint-Saëns · 6 (just realized he was _that_ far behind; initially I regarded him as top 15 or 20 'material')
> ...


In 'real life' he is at the top of classical listeners' lists, on this forum he isn't. He has a good deal of works in the core performing repertoire. I am currently discovering and rediscovering the many gems this guy left us. Was a bit of a critic before but now am definitely a Saint-Saens fan of sorts.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Tchaikovsky 10
Liszt 9
Saint-Saens 8
Monteverdi 7
Sibelius 6
Elgar 5
Stravinsky 4
Ravel 3
Strauss 2
Vivaldi 1
Messiaen -3

*NB * In post 494 (Harpsichord Concerto) Vivaldi is included twice


----------



## Lisztian

10. Liszt.
9. Rachmaninoff.
8. Berlioz.
7. MacDowell.


----------



## pjang23

As of Lisztian's vote:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky - 447
16. Stravinsky - 437
17. Ravel - 426
18. Strauss, Richard - 319
19. Bartók - 312
20. Liszt - 309
21. Shostakovich - 308
22. Prokofiev - 282
23. Sibelius - 245
24. Verdi - 243
25. Monteverdi - 219
26. Messiaen - 180
27. Schoenberg - 168
28. Bruckner - 161
29. Berlioz - 159
30. Mussorgsky - 156
31. Rachmaninoff - 152
32. Scriabin - 133
33. Nielsen - 130
34. Vivaldi - 123
35. Vaughan Williams - 113
36. Ligeti - 112
37. Janáček - 107
38. Elgar - 98
38. Grieg - 98
40. Fauré - 97
41. Puccini - 92
42. Webern - 78
43. Palestrina - 75
44. Villa-Lobos - 73
45. Barber - 70
45. Berg - 70
47. Josquin - 68
48. Gesualdo - 64
48. Saint-Saëns - 64
50. Schnittke - 62
51. Britten - 61
52. Alfven - 57
53. Rossini - 53
54. Varèse - 52
55. Satie - 50
56. Bizet - 48
56. Scarlatti - 48
58. Rimsky-Korsakov - 45
59. Medtner - 44
60. Glass - 43
61. Arnold - 41
62. Rameau - 39
62. Reich - 39
64. Gluck - 38
65. Hindemith - 37
66. Adams - 32
67. Lully - 29
67. Penderecki - 29
69. Stockhausen - 28
70. Gershwin - 27
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 26
72. Ives - 25
73. Rott - 24
74. Copland - 22
74. Corelli - 22
76. Bach, C.P.E. - 21
76. Bach, J.C. - 21
76. Weber - 21
79. Novak - 20
80. Pärt - 19
81. Rodrigo - 18
82. Gombert - 16
82. Lutoslawski - 16
82. Machaut - 16
82. Schumann, Clara - 16
86. Bellini - 15
86. Biber - 15
86. MacDowell - 15
86. Takemitsu - 15
90. Hummel - 14
90. Tallis - 14
90. Telemann - 14
90. Wagner, Siegfried - 14
90. Xenakis - 14
95. Harbison - 13
95. Smetana - 13
97. Albeniz - 12
97. Delius - 12
97. Purcell - 12
100. Liefs - 11
101. Paganini - 10
101. Rudland - 10
103. Gojilov - 9
103. Holst - 9
105. Byrd - 8
105. Crumb - 8
105. Enescu - 8
105. Zimmerman - 8
109. Donizetti - 7
110. Berio - 6
110. Boulez - 6
110. Locatelli - 6
110. Respighi - 6
110. Spohr - 6
110. Wohlfahrt - 6
116. Eberl - 5
116. Glazunov - 5
116. Hartmann - 5
116. Martinu - 5
116. Sorabji - 5
116. Strauss II, Johann - 5
122. Borodin - 4
122. Clementi - 4
122. Ferneyhough - 4
122. Gorecki - 4
122. Henze - 4
122. Hildegard - 4
128. Alkan - 3
128. Carter - 3
128. Simpson - 3
128. Skalkottas - 3
132. Allegri - 2
132. Alwyn - 2
132. Brouwer - 2
132. Cherubini - 2
132. Danzi - 2
132. Poulenc - 2
132. Tower - 2
139. Bernstein - 1
139. Gubaidulina - 1
139. Meyerbeer - 1
139. Monti - 1
139. Offenbach - 1
144. Schobert - -5



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Yes! It is somewhat depressing that the top 30 as of now are exclusively Romantic or Post-Romantic/Early Modernist composers... with the exception of Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Handel and Monteverdi (and Beethoven if we count him as of the "classical era" as opposed to Romantic). In the top 30 we find 2 Baroque composers, 2 composers from the classical era, 1 composer that straddled the Renaissance into the Baroque, and 1 composer that straddled the classical era into Romanticism. All the rest are Romantics/Post-Romantic/Early Modernists. If we look further... into the top 40 we gain one more Baroque composer (Vivaldi) and the first post-WWII composer (Ligeti). If we continue down the list to no. 50 we finally gain a few Renaissance composers (Palestrina, Josquin, and Gesualdo) but we have to go down the list to no. 81 (Machaut) until we come across the first medieval composer. And surely it says something about the popularity of opera at the sight (which makes Wagner's top-ten showing all the more impressive) when Donizetti and Bellini both rank further down than Machaut.:lol:


Orderings at the bottom of the list are basically meaningless, since a few days of votes can completely change the positions. I'll eventually be pushing for Palestrina and Scarlatti. Hope you continue to contribute.


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Verdi
9. Liszt
8. Bartok
7. Berlioz
6. Barber
5. Saint-Saens
4. Faure
3. Tchaikovsky
2. Rossini
1. Adams

-3 S. Wagner


----------



## Very Senior Member

Resulting from the last set of votes Tchaikovsky seems to be in at No 15.


----------



## Very Senior Member

It looks like Stravinsky and Ravel are going to come in at nos 16 and 17 respectively. Liszt is coming up the inside rails quite fast (now that Lisztian has joined in) so he may take 18th position, ahead of Strauss and Bartok or possibly Shostakovich in 19th and 20th spots. The excitement is almost unbearable. The main gainer in the overall results so far is Schumann (8th), who appears to have snatched the position normally ocupied by Tchaikovsky in polls of this type.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Yes! It is somewhat depressing that the top 30 as of now are exclusively Romantic or Post-Romantic/Early Modernist composers... with the exception of Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Handel and Monteverdi (and Beethoven if we count him as of the "classical era" as opposed to Romantic). In the top 30 we find 2 Baroque composers, 2 composers from the classical era, 1 composer that straddled the Renaissance into the Baroque, and 1 composer that straddled the classical era into Romanticism. All the rest are Romantics/Post-Romantic/Early Modernists. If we look further... into the top 40 we gain one more Baroque composer (Vivaldi) and the first post-WWII composer (Ligeti). If we continue down the list to no. 50 we finally gain a few Renaissance composers (Palestrina, Josquin, and Gesualdo) but we have to go down the list to no. 81 (Machaut) until we come across the first medieval composer. And surely it says something about the popularity of opera at the sight (which makes Wagner's top-ten showing all the more impressive) when Donizetti and Bellini both rank further down than Machaut.:lol:


Agree. TC appears to have a bias of preference to the Romantics/Post-Romantic/Early Modernists, which is fine, as that's what the members appear to prefer. Baroque, early Classical and indeed opera appear to be significantly "less preferred" here, which is probably not representative of the larger classical music listening preference of the real world. Nor do we have the numbers to statistically bulk up the rankings probably beyond the top 15 to 20, hence ending up with anomalies like Stockhausen ranking similarly with CPE Bach at the moment, or Schnittke ranking of Rossini, or Sibelius on par with Verdi.

But all in the name of good fun. Handel is in the top 10, so who gives a toss about the rest anyway. The other 9 in the top 10 I broadly agree with as a whole. I would have preferred to move Mendelssohn up a little more and maybe edge Schumann out a little, just a little. Likewise with Mahler, who undoubtedly is there based on his large scale symphonies only.


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's list:

10 - J C Bach
9 - Nielsen
8 - Elgar
7 - Barber
6 - Alfven
5 - Arnold
4 - Novak
3 - Prokofiev
2 - Sibelius
1 - Vaughan Williams


----------



## science

I hate feeling manipulated, especially via guilt, so I feel compelled to vote exclusively "Romantic or Post-Romantic/Early Modernist composers." 

10 Fauré 
9 Enescu
8 Janacek 
7 Stravinsky 
6 Elgar
5 Albeniz 
4 Saint-Saens
3 Rachmaninoff 
2 Delius 
1 Ives 
-3 Wagner


----------



## science

Sorry..........


----------



## StevenOBrien

Happy to see people putting in votes for Bach's sons, very underrated composers in my opinion.

10 - Ravel
9 - Prokofiev
8 - Shostakovich
7 - Monteverdi
6 - Stravinsky (I think this puts him in as #16)
5 - Glass
4 - J.C. Bach
3 - Bizet
2 - Berlioz
1 - C.P.E. Bach

-3 - Siegfried Wagner


----------



## Sonata

10- Prokoviev
9- Monteverdi
8- Faure
7- Arvo Part
6- Puccini
5- R. STrauss
4- Glass
3- Charpentier
2- Saint Saens
1- Vivaldi


----------



## Cygnenoir

Stravinsky - 10
Prokofiev - 9
Grieg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Bruckner - 6
Adams - 5
Reich - 4
Brian - 3
Penderecki - 2
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## pjang23

10 Strauss
9 Prokofiev
8 Shostakovich
7 Palestrina
6 Scarlatti
5 Sibelius
4 Ravel
3 Bartok
2 Rimsky-Korsakov
1 Barber
-3 S. Wagner

Current Standings: Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel - 440
18. Strauss, Richard - 334
19. Shostakovich - 324
20. Bartók - 323
21. Prokofiev - 322
22. Liszt - 318
23. Verdi - 253
24. Sibelius - 252
25. Monteverdi - 235
26. Messiaen - 180
27. Schoenberg - 169
28. Berlioz - 168
29. Bruckner - 167
30. Mussorgsky - 156
31. Rachmaninoff - 155
32. Nielsen - 139
33. Scriabin - 133
34. Vivaldi - 124
35. Fauré - 119
35. Ligeti - 119
37. Janáček - 115
38. Vaughan Williams - 114
39. Elgar - 112
40. Grieg - 106
41. Puccini - 98
42. Barber - 84
43. Palestrina - 82
44. Webern - 78
45. Saint-Saëns - 75
46. Villa-Lobos - 73
47. Berg - 70
48. Josquin - 68
49. Gesualdo - 64
50. Alfven - 63
51. Schnittke - 62
52. Britten - 61
53. Rossini - 55
54. Scarlatti - 54
55. Glass - 52
55. Varèse - 52
57. Bizet - 51
58. Satie - 50
59. Rimsky-Korsakov - 47
60. Arnold - 46
61. Medtner - 44
62. Reich - 43
63. Rameau - 39
64. Adams - 38
64. Gluck - 38
66. Hindemith - 37
67. Bach, J.C. - 35
68. Penderecki - 31
69. Lully - 29
70. Stockhausen - 28
71. Gershwin - 27
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 26
72. Ives - 26
72. Pärt - 26
75. Novak - 24
75. Rott - 24
77. Bach, C.P.E. - 22
77. Copland - 22
77. Corelli - 22
80. Weber - 21
81. Rodrigo - 18
82. Albeniz - 17
82. Enescu - 17
84. Gombert - 16
84. Lutoslawski - 16
84. Machaut - 16
84. Schumann, Clara - 16
88. Bellini - 15
88. Biber - 15
88. MacDowell - 15
88. Takemitsu - 15
92. Delius - 14
92. Hummel - 14
92. Tallis - 14
92. Telemann - 14
92. Xenakis - 14
97. Harbison - 13
97. Smetana - 13
99. Purcell - 12
100. Liefs - 11
101. Paganini - 10
101. Rudland - 10
103. Gojilov - 9
103. Holst - 9
105. Byrd - 8
105. Crumb - 8
105. Zimmerman - 8
108. Donizetti - 7
109. Berio - 6
109. Boulez - 6
109. Locatelli - 6
109. Respighi - 6
109. Spohr - 6
109. Wohlfahrt - 6
115. Eberl - 5
115. Glazunov - 5
115. Hartmann - 5
115. Martinu - 5
115. Sorabji - 5
115. Strauss II, Johann - 5
121. Borodin - 4
121. Clementi - 4
121. Ferneyhough - 4
121. Gorecki - 4
121. Henze - 4
121. Hildegard - 4
127. Alkan - 3
127. Brian - 3
127. Carter - 3
127. Charpentier - 3
127. Simpson - 3
127. Skalkottas - 3
133. Allegri - 2
133. Alwyn - 2
133. Brouwer - 2
133. Cherubini - 2
133. Danzi - 2
133. Poulenc - 2
133. Tower - 2
133. Wagner, Siegfried - 2
141. Bernstein - 1
141. Gubaidulina - 1
141. Meyerbeer - 1
141. Monti - 1
141. Offenbach - 1
146. Schobert - -5


----------



## Very Senior Member

It would nice to draw in some new members to the voting. Perhaps they're mystified by the procedure.

It's very easy. Take a look at post 518, "Current Standings: ….." This sets out the latest position. Places 1 thru 16 are now fixed, so there's no point voting for any of these composers. Below 16 it's all still all up for grabs.

The numbers after each composer show the total votes cast to date. As soon as a composer achieves 450 points or above they become "enshrined" in the appropriate next position, 17, 18 … etc.

Each member can allocate 10 votes to your most preferred composer, 9 for the next preferred, etc down to 1 vote. You don't have to allocate points to all 10 composers. You can allocate your points to any composer you like, not just to those currently on the board.

If you wish to do so you can deduct 3 points for any composer you wish to see lose points, in which case you would show a negative number 3 against that composer. But you can only this once per set of votes.

You can vote tactically if you wish, i.e. not necessarily in the order you like them but to try to block the progress of others in whichever way you see fit.

You can only vote once per day.

Each day the cumulative votes are set out by _pyang23_, who has very kindly agreed to take on the role of statistician. It's as well though to try to keep your own tally if possible so that you know the latest position before voting.


----------



## mmsbls

10. Sibelius
9. Ravel
8. Prokofiev
7. Shostakovich
6. Liszt
5. Strauss
4. Bruckner
3. Vivaldi
2. Verdi
1. Saint-Saens


----------



## msvadi

My list (for today):

10 - Bach
9 - Beethoven
8 - Bruckner
7 - Mahler
6 - Shostakovitch
5 - Sándor Veress
4 - Paganini
3 - Stravinsky
2 - Schoenberg
1 - Schubert


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Another round today.

Donizetti = +10
Puccini = +9
Bellini = +8
Verdi = +7
CPE Bach = +6
JC Bach = +5
Alessandro Scarlatti = +4
Domenico Scarlatti = +3
Telemann = +2
Sphor = +1

Sibelius = -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Bartok
9. Shostakovich
8. Schoenberg
7. RVW
6. Part
5. Martinu
4. Prokofiev
3. Janacek
2. Berlioz
1. Ravel

-3 sibelius
Ravel is in


----------



## Merve

10 - Vivaldi 
9 - Liszt
8 - Fauré
7 - Rimsky-Korsakov
6 - Rachmaninoff
5 - Saint-Saëns
4 - Corelli
3 - Strauss
2 - Puccini
1 - Scarlatti

-3 Schoenberg


----------



## Turangalîla

Prokofiev - 10
Messiaen - 9
Mussorgsky - 8
Hildegard - 7 (If there's an underdog that people should vote for, it's her!)
Schoenberg - 6
Webern - 5
Berg - 4
Ligeti - 3
Glass - 2
Adams - 1

Liszt -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Perhaps at this point it might make some sense to say a little something about the choices we are making as we are starting to see a lot of less-familiar names.

*1. Richard Strauss +10* IMO Strauss was the greatest composer for orchestra of the 20th century as well as the unrivaled composer of opera after Wagner. While some dismiss him as a hold-over of Romanticism, his operas _Elektra_ and _Salome_ are as audacious and Expressionistic as The Rite of Spring or the music of Shostakovitch and Prokofiev. Along with Mahler's Song of the Earth, Strauss' Four Last Songs is the most moving song cycle of the Modern era.

*2. Gluck +9* Not only did Gluck shake up the world of opera, eliminating excessive shows of virtuosity in favor of simplicity and clarity of narrative and emotion... but he did this by composing the greatest operas after Handel and before Mozart. I wonder how many here... honestly... have given a listen to Gluck? At his finest, Gluck can give Mozart a run for his money.











*3. Faure +8* Of course everyone is familiar with Faure's Requiem... perhaps the most gentle and consoling of all Requiems. But Faure was much more. His chamber works... such as the Nocturnes for Piano and Violin are exquisite and lead the way to Debussy and the whole of Impressionism. As a song writer... a creator of the French melodie... Faure stands toe to toe with his great heir, Debussy:






*4. Monteverdi +7* The man led the way from the Renaissance into the Baroque. He composed what is surely the greatest body of Madrigals, the magnificent Verspers... and then he virtually "invented" opera as we know it:






*5. Verdi +6* There's a certain irony to the fact that on the thread "Wagner vs Verdi" the anti-Wagnerian crew came out in force and voted for Verdi. But here...? Verdi will be lucky to make it within the Top 20... well behind Wagner... in spite of the immense wealth of his oeuvre:


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

*6. Bellini +5
7. Donizetti +4*

The two great composers of "_bel canto_" (along with Rossini) sadly ignored in this poll:






And surely the "mad scene" to beat all "mad scenes":






*8. Rossini +3* Perhaps the greatest of the "_bel canto_" composers. As an opera composer he ran circles around his great peer, Beethoven. His overtures alone are famous... and surely the overture to _William Tell_ surpasses all others as a brilliant orchestral work:






*9. Gesualdo +2* Gesualdo pushed the limitations of traditional tonality centuries before Wagner, Debussy, Scriabin, and Schoenberg:






*10. J.C. Bach +1* I picked up this disc initially thinking it was a collection of arias from the cantatas of J.S. Bach. It turned out to be arias from the operas of his son, Johann Christian Bach... and I was absolutely floored.


----------



## StevenOBrien

With regards to J.C. Bach, just listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XnYTm4VtAs#t=17m31s


----------



## tdc

10: Bartok
9: Monteverdi
8: Villa-Lobos
7: Dowland
6: Lully
5: D. Scarlatti
4: Gluck
3: Rameau
2: Josquin
1: Vivaldi


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Time to vote again...

1. Richard Strauss +10
2. Gluck +9
3. Faure +8
4. Verdi +7
5. Bellini +6
6. Donizetti +5
7. J.C. Bach +4
8. Vivaldi +3
9. Monteverdi +2
10 Gesualdo +1


----------



## science

At this point if I vote for Verdi I'll feel that I've been manipulated and cajoled into it, so I will not do so. However, IMO he deserves some votes.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Sibelius 10
Elgar 9
Puccini 8
Monteverdi 7
Vivaldi 6
Saint-Saens 5
Richard Strauss 4
Verdi 3
Liszt 2
Prokofiev 1
Messiaen -3


----------



## pjang23

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Time to vote again...
> 
> 1. Richard Strauss +10
> 2. Gluck +9
> 3. Faure +8
> 4. Verdi +7
> 5. Bellini +6
> 6. Donizetti +5
> 7. J.C. Bach +4
> 8. Vivaldi +3
> 9. Monteverdi +2
> 10 Gesualdo +1


I'll assume this is your vote for June 19 and the last one was for June 18.

Current Standings: Ravel is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Strauss, Richard - 366
19. Shostakovich - 346
20. Prokofiev - 345
21. Bartók - 343
22. Liszt - 332
23. Verdi - 278
24. Sibelius - 266
25. Monteverdi - 260
26. Messiaen - 186
27. Schoenberg - 182
28. Bruckner - 179
29. Berlioz - 170
30. Mussorgsky - 164
31. Rachmaninoff - 161
32. Vivaldi - 147
33. Fauré - 143
34. Nielsen - 139
35. Scriabin - 133
36. Ligeti - 122
37. Elgar - 121
37. Vaughan Williams - 121
39. Janáček - 118
40. Puccini - 117
41. Grieg - 106
42. Saint-Saëns - 86
43. Barber - 84
44. Webern - 83
45. Palestrina - 82
46. Villa-Lobos - 81
47. Berg - 74
48. Josquin - 70
49. Gesualdo - 67
50. Alfven - 63
50. Scarlatti, Domenico - 63
52. Schnittke - 62
53. Britten - 61
54. Gluck - 60
55. Rossini - 58
56. Glass - 54
56. Rimsky-Korsakov - 54
58. Varèse - 52
59. Bizet - 51
60. Satie - 50
61. Arnold - 46
62. Bach, J.C. - 45
63. Medtner - 44
64. Reich - 43
65. Rameau - 42
66. Adams - 39
67. Hindemith - 37
68. Lully - 35
69. Bellini - 34
70. Pärt - 32
71. Penderecki - 31
72. Bach, C.P.E. - 28
72. Stockhausen - 28
74. Gershwin - 27
75. Corelli - 26
75. Donizetti - 26
75. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 26
75. Ives - 26
79. Novak - 24
79. Rott - 24
81. Copland - 22
82. Weber - 21
83. Rodrigo - 18
84. Albeniz - 17
84. Enescu - 17
86. Gombert - 16
86. Lutoslawski - 16
86. Machaut - 16
86. Schumann, Clara - 16
86. Telemann - 16
91. Biber - 15
91. MacDowell - 15
91. Takemitsu - 15
94. Delius - 14
94. Hummel - 14
94. Paganini - 14
94. Tallis - 14
94. Xenakis - 14
99. Harbison - 13
99. Smetana - 13
101. Purcell - 12
102. Hildegard - 11
102. Liefs - 11
104. Martinu - 10
104. Rudland - 10
106. Gojilov - 9
106. Holst - 9
108. Byrd - 8
108. Crumb - 8
108. Zimmerman - 8
111. Dowland - 7
111. Spohr - 7
113. Berio - 6
113. Boulez - 6
113. Locatelli - 6
113. Respighi - 6
113. Wohlfahrt - 6
118. Eberl - 5
118. Glazunov - 5
118. Hartmann - 5
118. Sorabji - 5
118. Strauss II, Johann - 5
118. Veress - 5
124. Borodin - 4
124. Clementi - 4
124. Ferneyhough - 4
124. Gorecki - 4
124. Henze - 4
124. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 4
130. Alkan - 3
130. Brian - 3
130. Carter - 3
130. Charpentier - 3
130. Simpson - 3
130. Skalkottas - 3
136. Allegri - 2
136. Alwyn - 2
136. Brouwer - 2
136. Cherubini - 2
136. Danzi - 2
136. Poulenc - 2
136. Tower - 2
136. Wagner, Siegfried - 2
144. Bernstein - 1
144. Gubaidulina - 1
144. Meyerbeer - 1
144. Monti - 1
144. Offenbach - 1
149. Schobert - -5


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Prokofiev · 10
Saint-Saëns · 9
Bartók · 8
Satie · 7
R. Strauss · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf (Hugo) · 4
Walther von der Vogelweide · 3
Telemann · 2
Elgar · 1

Heino · -3


----------



## science

What is the official time zone of the voting? I'd like to figure out whether I'm eligible to vote again. I voted last night, about 18 hours ago, but I don't wish to get in trouble by cheating or appearing to have cheated.


----------



## pjang23

I'm in Pacific time (UTC-8), and you're good to go. If anyone has two votes close together (say under 12 hours apart), I'll confirm the date of the votes. I mark the end of each day in my spreadsheet, so it's not hard to miss an extra vote. Nobody should be able to vote three times within a 24 hour window.


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> I'm in Pacific time (UTC-8), and you're good to go. If anyone has two votes close together (say under 12 hours apart), I'll confirm the date of the votes. I mark the end of each day in my spreadsheet, so it's not hard to miss an extra vote. Nobody should be able to vote three times within a 24 hour window.


Thank you!!!


----------



## science

10 Shostakovich
9 Faure 
8 Vivaldi
7 Verdi
6 Monteverdi 
5 Janacek 
4 Enescu
3 Scarlatti, D
2 Corelli 
1 Bartok

-3 Schobert


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's list:

10 J C Bach
9 Elgar
8 Nielsen
7 Monteverdi
6 Prokofiev
5 Sibelius
4 Vaughan Williams
3 Barber
2 Alfven
1 Novak


----------



## crmoorhead

10 Verdi
9 Bartok
8 Saint-Saens
7 Liszt
6 Shostakovich
5 Faure
4 Barber
3 Rossini
2 Schoenberg
1 Berlioz

-3 S. Wagner


----------



## Arsakes

10. Shostakovich
9. Saint-Saëns
8. Liszt
7. Bruckner
6. Berlioz
5. Mussorgsky
4. Korsakov
3. Glinka
2. Ippoitov Ivanov
1. Rachmaninoff

-3 Schoenberg


----------



## Sonata

10- Faure
9- Monteverdi
8- R. Strauss
7- Puccini
6- Gorecki
5-C. Schumman
4- Part
3- Prokoviev
2- Saint Saens
1- Vivaldi


----------



## Trout

10 Strauss, Richard
9 Vaughan Williams
8 Shostakovich
7 Liszt
6 Prokofiev
5 Josquin
4 Rossini
3 Puccini
2 Rimsky-Korsakov
1 Sibelius

-3 Alfven


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Prokofiev
9 - Shostakovich
8 - Monteverdi
7 - Verdi
6 - Berlioz
5 - Vivaldi
4 - Glass
3 - Scarlatti
2 - J.C. Bach
1 - Siegfried Wagner

-3 - Liszt


----------



## mmsbls

10. Sibelius
9. Prokofiev
8. Shostakovich
7. Liszt
6. Strauss
5. Bruckner
4. Vivaldi
3. Verdi
2. Saint-Saens
1. Vaughan Williams


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Shostakovich
9 Bartok
8 Schoenberg
7 Messiaen
6 Janacek
5 webern
4 berg
3 RVW
2 glass
1 reich


----------



## Lisztian

10: Liszt.
9: Rachmaninoff.
8: Berlioz.


----------



## Merve

10 - Vivaldi 
9 - Liszt
8 - Fauré
7 - Rachmaninoff
6 - Saint-Saëns
5 - Corelli


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Liszt: 9

Ligeti: -3


----------



## pjang23

StevenOBrien said:


> 1 - Siegfried Wagner


Oblivion: A fate worse than negative hell :lol:

10 Strauss
9 Prokofiev
8 Palestrina
7 Bartok
6 Scarlatti
5 Rimsky-Korsakov
4 Berg
3 Puccini
2 Grieg
1 Josquin

As of my vote:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Shostakovich - 407
19. Strauss, Richard - 406
20. Prokofiev - 398
21. Liszt - 386
22. Bartók - 377
23. Verdi - 305
24. Monteverdi - 290
25. Sibelius - 282
26. Messiaen - 193
27. Berlioz - 191
27. Bruckner - 191
29. Schoenberg - 189
30. Rachmaninoff - 178
31. Fauré - 175
31. Vivaldi - 175
33. Mussorgsky - 169
34. Nielsen - 147
35. Vaughan Williams - 138
36. Scriabin - 133
37. Elgar - 131
38. Puccini - 130
39. Janáček - 129
40. Saint-Saëns - 122
41. Ligeti - 119
42. Grieg - 108
43. Barber - 91
44. Palestrina - 90
45. Webern - 88
46. Berg - 82
47. Villa-Lobos - 81
48. Josquin - 76
49. Scarlatti, Domenico - 75
50. Gesualdo - 67
51. Rimsky-Korsakov - 65
51. Rossini - 65
53. Alfven - 62
53. Schnittke - 62
55. Britten - 61
56. Glass - 60
56. Gluck - 60
58. Bach, J.C. - 57
58. Satie - 57
60. Varèse - 52
61. Bizet - 51
62. Arnold - 46
63. Medtner - 44
63. Reich - 44
65. Rameau - 42
66. Adams - 39
67. Hindemith - 37
68. Pärt - 36
69. Lully - 35
70. Bellini - 34
71. Corelli - 33
72. Penderecki - 31
73. Rott - 29
74. Bach, C.P.E. - 28
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 28
74. Stockhausen - 28
77. Gershwin - 27
78. Donizetti - 26
78. Ives - 26
80. Novak - 25
81. Copland - 22
82. Enescu - 21
82. Schumann, Clara - 21
82. Weber - 21
85. Rodrigo - 18
85. Telemann - 18
87. Albeniz - 17
88. Gombert - 16
88. Lutoslawski - 16
88. Machaut - 16
91. Biber - 15
91. MacDowell - 15
91. Takemitsu - 15
94. Delius - 14
94. Hummel - 14
94. Paganini - 14
94. Tallis - 14
94. Xenakis - 14
99. Harbison - 13
99. Smetana - 13
101. Purcell - 12
102. Hildegard - 11
102. Liefs - 11
104. Gorecki - 10
104. Martinu - 10
104. Rudland - 10
107. Gojilov - 9
107. Holst - 9
109. Byrd - 8
109. Crumb - 8
109. Zimmerman - 8
112. Dowland - 7
112. Spohr - 7
114. Berio - 6
114. Boulez - 6
114. Locatelli - 6
114. Respighi - 6
114. Wohlfahrt - 6
119. Eberl - 5
119. Glazunov - 5
119. Hartmann - 5
119. Sorabji - 5
119. Strauss II, Johann - 5
119. Veress - 5
125. Borodin - 4
125. Clementi - 4
125. Ferneyhough - 4
125. Henze - 4
125. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 4
125. Wolf - 4
131. Alkan - 3
131. Brian - 3
131. Carter - 3
131. Charpentier - 3
131. Glinka - 3
131. Simpson - 3
131. Skalkottas - 3
131. Vogelweide - 3
139. Allegri - 2
139. Alwyn - 2
139. Brouwer - 2
139. Cherubini - 2
139. Danzi - 2
139. Poulenc - 2
139. Tower - 2
146. Bernstein - 1
146. Gubaidulina - 1
146. Meyerbeer - 1
146. Monti - 1
146. Offenbach - 1
151. Schobert - -8


----------



## Air

Go Strauss!

10. Strauss
9. Prokofiev
8. Varese
7. Telemann
6. Rameau
5. Ligeti
4. Scarlatti
3. Schoenberg
2. Palestrina
1. Verdi

-3 Shostakovich


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Verdi = +10
Puccini = +9
Donizetti = +8
Rossini = +7
Alessandro Scarlatti = +6
Clementi = +5
CPE Bach = +4
JC Bach = +3
Gluck = +2
Richard Strauss = +1

Shostakovich = -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Verdi
9. Berlioz
8. Shostakovich
7. Rossini
6. Purcell
5. Barber
4. Bartok
3. Liszt
2. Rameau
1. Vivaldi


----------



## tdc

10. Bartok
9. Monteverdi
8. Ives
7. Albeniz
6. Villa-Lobos
5. D. Scarlatti
4. Purcell
3. Vivaldi
2. Biber
1. Lully


----------



## Couchie

A new vote for a new age:

RICHARD WILHELM WAGNER: 10 POINTS

GOD: -3 POINTS


----------



## Turangalîla

Prokofiev - 10
Messiaen - 9
Schoenberg - 8
Mussorgsky - 7
Berg - 6
Webern - 5
Ligeti - 4
Adams - 3

Strauss -3 (Prokofiev should beat him )


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1, Richard Strauss +10
2. Verdi +9
3. Gluck +8
4. Vivaldi +7
5. J.C. Bach +6
6. Rameau +5
7. Bellini +4
8. Donizetti +3
9. Monteverdi +2
10. Rossini +1

Shostakovitch -3


----------



## pjang23

As of StlukesguildOhio's vote:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Strauss, Richard - 424
19. Prokofiev - 417
20. Shostakovich - 406
21. Bartók - 391
22. Liszt - 389
23. Verdi - 335
24. Monteverdi - 301
25. Sibelius - 282
26. Messiaen - 202
27. Berlioz - 200
27. Schoenberg - 200
29. Bruckner - 191
30. Vivaldi - 186
31. Rachmaninoff - 178
32. Mussorgsky - 176
33. Fauré - 175
34. Nielsen - 147
35. Scriabin - 143
36. Puccini - 139
37. Vaughan Williams - 138
38. Elgar - 131
39. Janáček - 129
40. Ligeti - 128
41. Saint-Saëns - 122
42. Grieg - 108
43. Barber - 96
44. Webern - 93
45. Palestrina - 92
46. Berg - 88
47. Villa-Lobos - 87
48. Scarlatti, Domenico - 84
49. Rossini - 80
50. Josquin - 76
51. Gluck - 70
52. Gesualdo - 67
53. Bach, J.C. - 66
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 65
55. Alfven - 62
55. Schnittke - 62
57. Britten - 61
58. Glass - 60
58. Varèse - 60
60. Satie - 57
61. Rameau - 55
62. Bizet - 51
63. Arnold - 46
64. Medtner - 44
64. Reich - 44
66. Adams - 42
67. Bellini - 38
68. Donizetti - 37
68. Hindemith - 37
70. Lully - 36
70. Pärt - 36
72. Ives - 34
73. Corelli - 33
74. Bach, C.P.E. - 32
75. Penderecki - 31
76. Rott - 29
77. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 28
77. Stockhausen - 28
79. Gershwin - 27
80. Novak - 25
80. Telemann - 25
82. Albeniz - 24
83. Copland - 22
83. Purcell - 22
85. Enescu - 21
85. Schumann, Clara - 21
85. Weber - 21
88. Rodrigo - 18
89. Biber - 17
90. Gombert - 16
90. Lutoslawski - 16
90. Machaut - 16
93. MacDowell - 15
93. Takemitsu - 15
95. Delius - 14
95. Hummel - 14
95. Paganini - 14
95. Tallis - 14
95. Xenakis - 14
100. Harbison - 13
100. Smetana - 13
102. Hildegard - 11
102. Liefs - 11
104. Gorecki - 10
104. Martinu - 10
104. Rudland - 10
104. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 10
108. Clementi - 9
108. Gojilov - 9
108. Holst - 9
111. Byrd - 8
111. Crumb - 8
111. Zimmerman - 8
114. Dowland - 7
114. Spohr - 7
116. Berio - 6
116. Boulez - 6
116. Locatelli - 6
116. Respighi - 6
116. Wohlfahrt - 6
121. Eberl - 5
121. Glazunov - 5
121. Hartmann - 5
121. Sorabji - 5
121. Strauss II, Johann - 5
121. Veress - 5
127. Borodin - 4
127. Ferneyhough - 4
127. Henze - 4
127. Wolf - 4
131. Alkan - 3
131. Brian - 3
131. Carter - 3
131. Charpentier - 3
131. Glinka - 3
131. Simpson - 3
131. Skalkottas - 3
131. Vogelweide - 3
139. Allegri - 2
139. Alwyn - 2
139. Brouwer - 2
139. Cherubini - 2
139. Danzi - 2
139. Poulenc - 2
139. Tower - 2
146. Bernstein - 1
146. Gubaidulina - 1
146. Meyerbeer - 1
146. Monti - 1
146. Offenbach - 1
152. Schobert - -8


----------



## science

10 Shostakovich 
9 Strauss, Johann II 
8 Borodin
7 Offenbach
6 Machaut
5 Glazunov
4 Alkan
3 Glinka
2 Saint-Saens <-- this is edited, I'd put in Machaut twice
1 Takemitsu
-3 Schobert


----------



## Arsakes

10. Shostakovich
9. Sibelius
8. Liszt
7. Vivaldi
6. Berlioz
5. Mussorgsky
4. Korsakov
3. Glinka
2. Rachmaninoff 
1. Ippoitov Ivanov

- 3 Bartok


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Prokofiev · 10
R. Strauss · 9
Saint-Saëns · 8
Satie · 7
Bartók · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Elgar · 2
Holst · 1


Marimba Maria Membach · -3


----------



## Conor71

10 Shostakovich
9 Sibelius
8 Prokofiev
7 Messiaen
6 Bruckner
5 Ligeti
4 Faure
3 Elgar
2 R. Strauss
1 Rachmaninoff


----------



## pjang23

It's neck and neck between Strauss, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Shostakovich - 436
19. Prokofiev - 435
19. Strauss, Richard - 435
21. Liszt - 397
22. Bartók - 394
23. Verdi - 335
24. Monteverdi - 301
25. Sibelius - 300
26. Messiaen - 209
27. Berlioz - 206
28. Schoenberg - 200
29. Bruckner - 197
30. Vivaldi - 193
31. Mussorgsky - 181
31. Rachmaninoff - 181
33. Fauré - 179
34. Nielsen - 147
35. Scriabin - 143
36. Puccini - 139
37. Vaughan Williams - 138
38. Elgar - 136
39. Ligeti - 133
40. Saint-Saëns - 130
41. Janáček - 129
42. Grieg - 108
43. Barber - 96
44. Webern - 93
45. Palestrina - 92
46. Berg - 88
47. Villa-Lobos - 87
48. Scarlatti, Domenico - 84
49. Rossini - 80
50. Josquin - 76
51. Gluck - 70
52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 69
53. Gesualdo - 67
54. Bach, J.C. - 66
55. Satie - 64
56. Alfven - 62
56. Schnittke - 62
58. Britten - 61
59. Glass - 60
59. Varèse - 60
61. Rameau - 55
62. Bizet - 51
63. Arnold - 46
64. Medtner - 44
64. Reich - 44
66. Adams - 42
67. Bellini - 38
68. Donizetti - 37
68. Hindemith - 37
70. Lully - 36
70. Pärt - 36
72. Ives - 34
72. Rott - 34
74. Corelli - 33
75. Bach, C.P.E. - 32
76. Penderecki - 31
77. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 29
78. Stockhausen - 28
79. Gershwin - 27
80. Novak - 25
80. Telemann - 25
82. Albeniz - 24
83. Copland - 22
83. Machaut - 22
83. Purcell - 22
86. Enescu - 21
86. Schumann, Clara - 21
86. Weber - 21
89. Rodrigo - 18
90. Biber - 17
91. Gombert - 16
91. Lutoslawski - 16
91. Takemitsu - 16
94. MacDowell - 15
95. Delius - 14
95. Hummel - 14
95. Paganini - 14
95. Strauss II, Johann - 14
95. Tallis - 14
95. Xenakis - 14
101. Harbison - 13
101. Smetana - 13
103. Borodin - 12
104. Hildegard - 11
104. Liefs - 11
106. Glazunov - 10
106. Gorecki - 10
106. Holst - 10
106. Martinu - 10
106. Rudland - 10
106. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 10
112. Clementi - 9
112. Glinka - 9
112. Gojilov - 9
115. Byrd - 8
115. Crumb - 8
115. Offenbach - 8
115. Wolf - 8
115. Zimmerman - 8
120. Alkan - 7
120. Dowland - 7
120. Spohr - 7
123. Berio - 6
123. Boulez - 6
123. Locatelli - 6
123. Respighi - 6
123. Vogelweide - 6
123. Wohlfahrt - 6
129. Eberl - 5
129. Hartmann - 5
129. Sorabji - 5
129. Veress - 5
133. Ferneyhough - 4
133. Henze - 4
135. Brian - 3
135. Carter - 3
135. Charpentier - 3
135. Simpson - 3
135. Skalkottas - 3
140. Allegri - 2
140. Alwyn - 2
140. Brouwer - 2
140. Cherubini - 2
140. Danzi - 2
140. Poulenc - 2
140. Tower - 2
147. Bernstein - 1
147. Gubaidulina - 1
147. Meyerbeer - 1
147. Monti - 1
151. Schobert - -11


----------



## crmoorhead

pjang23 said:


> It's neck and neck between Strauss, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich


Dammit, I've already voted today! No pressure on the next vote.


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 NIelsen, C
9 J C Bach
8 Prokofiev
7 Elgar
6 Monteverdi
5 Barber
4 Alfven
3 Arnold
2 Novak
1 Shostakovich


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Prokofiev
9 - Shostakovich
8 - Monteverdi
7 - Bizet
6 - Berlioz
5 - C.P.E Bach
4 - Verdi
3 - Glass
2 - J.C. Bach
1 - Scarlatti


----------



## Trout

10 Strauss, Richard
9 Liszt
8 Varese
7 Josquin
6 Rimsky-Korsakov
5 Vaughan Williams
4 Verdi
3 Rossini
2 Puccini
1 Palestrina

-3 Bach, JC


----------



## mmsbls

10. Sibelius
9. Prokofiev
8. Shostakovich
7. Liszt
6. Strauss
5. Bruckner
4. Vivaldi
3. Verdi
2. Saint-Saens
1. Vaughan Williams

-3 Messiaen


----------



## Cygnenoir

Prokofiev - 10
Ligeti - 9
Tveitt - 8
Grieg - 7
Bruckner - 6
Adams - 5
Reich - 4
Brian - 3
Penderecki - 2
Messiaen - 1


----------



## crmoorhead

By my count, Prokofiev has passed the required amount a couple of votes ago and Shostakovich and Strauss passed the 450 mark as of mmsbls' vote with Shostakovich finshing slightly higher.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Bach : -17 Farenheit
Alban Berg : 10
Richard Wagner: 9
Tchaikovsky (just his operas): 8
Mozart : 7
Rimsky-Korsakov (just his operas): 6
Bartók: 5
Schreker: 4
Zemlinsky : 3
Schönberg : 2
Krenek : 1
Stockhausen : -26 Farenheit
Richard Strauss: 0


Can I change this tomorrow?

Martin


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Hildegarde - 8
Schoenberg - 7
Webern - 6
Berg - 5
Ligeti - 4

Liszt -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

I think the positions are now: 18th Prokofiev; Shostakovich 19th, Richard Strauss 20th. 

………..

Elgar 10
Liszt 9
Saint-Saens 8
Monteverdi 7
Sibelius 6
Puccini 5
Verdi 4
Vivaldi 3
RVW 2
Barber 1
Messiaen -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Bartok
9 Schoenberg
8 Amy Beach
7 Fanny Mendelssohn
6 Hildegard
5 Martinu
4 Lalo
3 RVW

Liszt -3


----------



## Lisztian

10: Liszt.
9: Rachmaninoff.
8: Berlioz.
7: Alkan.


----------



## pjang23

10 Bartok
9 Purcell
8 Palestrina
7 Berg
6 Scarlatti
5 Grieg
4 Puccini
3 Barber
2 Verdi
1 Josquin

Current Standings: Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and Strauss are in!

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt - 426
22. Bartók - 419
23. Verdi - 352
24. Monteverdi - 322
25. Sibelius - 316
26. Berlioz - 220
27. Schoenberg - 218
28. Messiaen - 214
29. Bruckner - 208
30. Vivaldi - 200
31. Mussorgsky - 190
31. Rachmaninoff - 190
33. Fauré - 179
34. Nielsen - 157
35. Elgar - 153
36. Puccini - 150
37. Vaughan Williams - 149
38. Ligeti - 146
39. Scriabin - 143
40. Saint-Saëns - 142
41. Janáček - 129
42. Grieg - 120
43. Berg - 110
44. Barber - 105
45. Palestrina - 101
46. Webern - 99
47. Scarlatti, Domenico - 91
48. Villa-Lobos - 87
49. Josquin - 84
50. Rossini - 83
51. Rimsky-Korsakov - 81
52. Bach, J.C. - 74
53. Gluck - 70
54. Varèse - 68
55. Gesualdo - 67
56. Alfven - 66
57. Satie - 64
58. Glass - 63
59. Schnittke - 62
60. Britten - 61
61. Bizet - 58
62. Rameau - 55
63. Arnold - 49
64. Reich - 48
65. Adams - 47
66. Medtner - 44
67. Bellini - 38
68. Bach, C.P.E. - 37
68. Donizetti - 37
68. Hindemith - 37
71. Lully - 36
71. Pärt - 36
73. Ives - 34
73. Rott - 34
75. Corelli - 33
75. Penderecki - 33
77. Purcell - 31
78. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 29
79. Stockhausen - 28
80. Gershwin - 27
80. Novak - 27
82. Hildegard - 25
82. Telemann - 25
84. Albeniz - 24
85. Copland - 22
85. Machaut - 22
87. Enescu - 21
87. Schumann, Clara - 21
87. Weber - 21
90. Rodrigo - 18
91. Biber - 17
92. Gombert - 16
92. Lutoslawski - 16
92. Takemitsu - 16
95. MacDowell - 15
95. Martinu - 15
97. Alkan - 14
97. Delius - 14
97. Hummel - 14
97. Paganini - 14
97. Strauss II, Johann - 14
97. Tallis - 14
97. Xenakis - 14
104. Harbison - 13
104. Smetana - 13
106. Borodin - 12
107. Liefs - 11
108. Glazunov - 10
108. Gorecki - 10
108. Holst - 10
108. Rudland - 10
108. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 10
113. Clementi - 9
113. Glinka - 9
113. Gojilov - 9
116. Beach - 8
116. Byrd - 8
116. Crumb - 8
116. Offenbach - 8
116. Tveitt - 8
116. Wolf - 8
116. Zimmerman - 8
123. Dowland - 7
123. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
123. Spohr - 7
126. Berio - 6
126. Boulez - 6
126. Brian - 6
126. Locatelli - 6
126. Respighi - 6
126. Vogelweide - 6
126. Wohlfahrt - 6
133. Eberl - 5
133. Hartmann - 5
133. Sorabji - 5
133. Veress - 5
137. Ferneyhough - 4
137. Henze - 4
137. Lalo - 4
137. Schreker - 4
141. Carter - 3
141. Charpentier - 3
141. Simpson - 3
141. Skalkottas - 3
141. Zemlinsky - 3
146. Allegri - 2
146. Alwyn - 2
146. Brouwer - 2
146. Cherubini - 2
146. Danzi - 2
146. Poulenc - 2
146. Tower - 2
153. Bernstein - 1
153. Gubaidulina - 1
153. Krenek - 1
153. Meyerbeer - 1
153. Monti - 1
158. Schobert - -11


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Interesting...how different we are! Wow! you are mentioning composers I don!t know at all... Hildegard, sounds more as a philosopher to me. LOL (Kierkegaard)... Batok was my 10 for many years when I was young... People change, I have changed.

I have changed
You have changed
He has changed
She has changed......etc

Martin, changed


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Liszt: 9
Ligeti: -3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Verdi = +10
Vivaldi = +9
Puccini = +8
JC Bach = +7
CPE Bach = +6
Rossini = +5
Gluck =+4
Sphor = +3
Alessandro Scarlatti = +2
Telemann = +1

Messiaen = -3


----------



## Turangalîla

Why all the hating on Messiaen?


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Messiaen, a question of listening too much to his music. Many good things indeed... But the birds stuff...

Martin


----------



## crmoorhead

Seemed like a long 24 hrs this time:

10. Verdi
9. Bartok
8. Liszt
7. Berlioz
6. Saint Saens
5. Barber
4. Purcell
3. Adams
2. Britten
1. Rameau


----------



## crmoorhead

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Why all the hating on Messiaen?


I like Messiaen, but I think that he has a more than generous support so far.  I won't vote against him though.


----------



## Turangalîla

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Messiaen, a question of listening too much to his music. Many good things indeed... But the birds stuff...
> 
> Martin





crmoorhead said:


> I like Messiaen, but I think that he has a more than generous support so far.  I won't vote against him though.


I'll admit that he has received generous support (mostly because I've given him at least nine points every day-he hasn't received much from the others). His birdsong (Martin) is an absolutely otherworldly component of his music. But I _still_ think that he should be ranked 6th, so when others give him -3, it makes me very sad. 

If you are curious about my "interesting" lineup of favourite composers, here it is (because I don't think that I've ever shared this before):

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schumann
5. Ravel
6. Messiaen

Haydn, Mendelssohn, Chopin, and Handel make up slots seven to ten, but I haven't decided in what order.


----------



## tdc

10. Bartok
9. Monteverdi
8. Villa-Lobos
7. Schnittke
6. Albeniz
5. D. Scarlatti
4. Vivaldi
3. Gluck
2. Sibelius
1. Rameau


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
















2. Verdi +9
3. Monteverdi +8
4. Faure +7
5. Vivaldi +6
6. J.C. Bach +5











7. Alessandro Scarlatti +4
8. Rachmaninoff +3
9. Bruckner +2
10. Rameau +1

Schoenberg -3

Still pushing for some composers outside the usual range of Romanticism through Early Modernism... as well as for those composers known especially for opera... which seems grossly undervalued by many here.


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Sibelius
9. Liszt
8. Vivaldi
7. Berlioz
6. Glazunov
5. Mussorgsky
4. Korsakov
3. Glinka
2. Rachmaninoff 
+ 1. Ippoitov Ivanov

- 3 Schoenberg


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Liszt is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók - 438
23. Verdi - 381
24. Monteverdi - 339
25. Sibelius - 328
26. Berlioz - 234
27. Vivaldi - 227
28. Schoenberg - 212
29. Messiaen - 211
30. Bruckner - 210
31. Mussorgsky - 195
31. Rachmaninoff - 195
33. Fauré - 186
34. Puccini - 158
35. Nielsen - 157
36. Elgar - 153
36. Scriabin - 153
38. Vaughan Williams - 149
39. Saint-Saëns - 148
40. Ligeti - 143
41. Janáček - 129
42. Grieg - 120
43. Barber - 110
43. Berg - 110
45. Palestrina - 101
46. Webern - 99
47. Scarlatti, Domenico - 96
48. Villa-Lobos - 95
49. Rossini - 88
50. Gluck - 87
51. Bach, J.C. - 86
52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 85
53. Josquin - 84
54. Schnittke - 69
55. Varèse - 68
56. Gesualdo - 67
57. Alfven - 66
58. Satie - 64
59. Britten - 63
59. Glass - 63
61. Bizet - 58
61. Rameau - 58
63. Adams - 50
64. Arnold - 49
65. Reich - 48
66. Medtner - 44
67. Bach, C.P.E. - 43
68. Bellini - 38
69. Donizetti - 37
69. Hindemith - 37
71. Lully - 36
71. Pärt - 36
73. Purcell - 35
74. Ives - 34
74. Rott - 34
76. Corelli - 33
76. Penderecki - 33
78. Albeniz - 30
78. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 30
80. Stockhausen - 28
81. Gershwin - 27
81. Novak - 27
83. Telemann - 26
84. Hildegard - 25
85. Copland - 22
85. Machaut - 22
87. Enescu - 21
87. Schumann, Clara - 21
87. Weber - 21
90. Rodrigo - 18
91. Biber - 17
92. Glazunov - 16
92. Gombert - 16
92. Lutoslawski - 16
92. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 16
92. Takemitsu - 16
97. MacDowell - 15
97. Martinu - 15
99. Alkan - 14
99. Delius - 14
99. Hummel - 14
99. Paganini - 14
99. Strauss II, Johann - 14
99. Tallis - 14
99. Xenakis - 14
106. Harbison - 13
106. Smetana - 13
108. Borodin - 12
108. Glinka - 12
110. Liefs - 11
111. Gorecki - 10
111. Holst - 10
111. Rudland - 10
111. Spohr - 10
115. Clementi - 9
115. Gojilov - 9
117. Beach - 8
117. Byrd - 8
117. Crumb - 8
117. Offenbach - 8
117. Tveitt - 8
117. Wolf - 8
117. Zimmerman - 8
124. Dowland - 7
124. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
126. Berio - 6
126. Boulez - 6
126. Brian - 6
126. Locatelli - 6
126. Respighi - 6
126. Vogelweide - 6
126. Wohlfahrt - 6
133. Eberl - 5
133. Hartmann - 5
133. Sorabji - 5
133. Veress - 5
137. Ferneyhough - 4
137. Henze - 4
137. Lalo - 4
137. Schreker - 4
141. Carter - 3
141. Charpentier - 3
141. Simpson - 3
141. Skalkottas - 3
141. Zemlinsky - 3
146. Allegri - 2
146. Alwyn - 2
146. Brouwer - 2
146. Cherubini - 2
146. Danzi - 2
146. Poulenc - 2
146. Tower - 2
153. Bernstein - 1
153. Gubaidulina - 1
153. Krenek - 1
153. Meyerbeer - 1
153. Monti - 1
158. Schobert - -11


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Bartók · 10
Saint-Saëns · 9
Vivaldi · 8
Satie · 7
Telemann · 6
Rott · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Respighi · 3
Fauré · 2
Elgar · 1

Peter Panflute · -3


----------



## science

10 Fauré 
9 Dowland
8 Zelenka 
7 Janacek 
6 Lalo
5 Berio
4 Offenbach 
3 Charpentier
2 Spohr 
1 Byrd

-3 Schobert


----------



## Vesteralen

Today's List:

10 - Alfven
9 - Arnold
8 - Bach, JC
7 - Nielsen
6 - Elgar
5 - Sibelius
4 - Alwyn
3 - Novak
2 - Monteverdi
1 - Machaut


----------



## Sonata

10- Faure
9- Puccini
8- Monteverdi
7- Corelli
6- Gorecki
5- Gesualdo
4- C. Schumann
3- Part
2- charpentier
1- Borodin


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Bach? Who is Bach? See:

http://www.talkclassical.com/19925-who-afraid-have-alzheimers.html

Martin.....I think


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

It's no wonder that Mozart father & son were family friends with Mr Bach of London.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Compared with other listings I’ve seen elsewhere I think that Verdi should have been included in the established positions by now. I’m not that keen on opera but feel that I should give him some points. 

Elgar 10
Saint-Saens 9
Monteverdi 8
Sibelius 7
Purcell 6
Verdi 5
Vivaldi 4
Puccini 3
RVW 2
Barber 1
Messiaen -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Bruckner - 9
Grieg - 8
Adams - 7
Reich - 6
Tveitt - 5
Penderecki - 4
Brian - 3
Pärt - 2
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10. Sibelius
9. Strauss
8. Bruckner
7. Vivaldi
6. Verdi
5. Saint-Saens
4. Vaughan Williams
3. Faure
2. JC Bach
1. Monteverdi

-3 Messiaen


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Schoenberg - 8 (What's with the anti-Schoenberg movement that's been travelling around here lately?)
Hildegarde - 7
Ligeti - 6
Webern - 5
Berg - 4
Palestrina - 3
Gesualdo - 2

-3 Vivaldi (he's higher than he deserves, methinks)


----------



## myaskovsky2002

I wenttttt to youtttuuube and typed Hildegard and I had only Jazz... Did I make a mistake? 



About Vivaldi, a friend recorded for me about 14 different concertos... Incredible similar... Happy. I made a CD with these. I called my CD music for cooking! It is great when you don't really need to concentrate on music... Like elevator's music... Even if poor Vivaldi never knew elevators. He was quite modern for his time. Triple LOL.


Martin, confussssed


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - Monteverdi
8 - Verdi
7 - Berlioz
6 - Vivaldi 
5 - Satie
4 - J.C. Bach
3 - Glass
2 - C.P.E. Bach
1 - Lully

-3 - Carl Czerny


----------



## Very Senior Member

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I wenttttt to youtttuuube and typed Hildegard and I had only Jazz... Did I make a mistake? Martin, confussssed


 You went to the wrong place. If you had gone to "Google" and typed in "Hildegard", the top line entry is a Wiki article on "Hildegard of Bingen" (1098 - 1179). She is one of the most famous of early Medieval composers. I'm a little surprised that you haven't heard of her.


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Scarlatti
8 Purcell
7 Weber
6 Sibelius
5 Verdi
4 CPE Bach
3 Monteverdi
2 Bartok
1 Part
-3 Alfven

Current Standings: Bartok is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi - 405
24. Monteverdi - 370
25. Sibelius - 356
26. Vivaldi - 249
27. Berlioz - 241
28. Bruckner - 227
29. Schoenberg - 221
30. Messiaen - 215
31. Fauré - 211
32. Mussorgsky - 204
33. Rachmaninoff - 195
34. Puccini - 178
35. Saint-Saëns - 171
36. Elgar - 170
37. Nielsen - 164
38. Ligeti - 159
39. Vaughan Williams - 155
40. Scriabin - 153
41. Janáček - 136
42. Grieg - 128
43. Berg - 114
43. Palestrina - 114
45. Barber - 111
46. Scarlatti, Domenico - 105
47. Webern - 104
48. Bach, J.C. - 100
49. Villa-Lobos - 95
50. Rossini - 88
51. Gluck - 87
52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 85
53. Josquin - 84
54. Satie - 76
55. Gesualdo - 74
56. Alfven - 73
57. Schnittke - 69
58. Bizet - 68
58. Varèse - 68
60. Glass - 66
61. Britten - 63
62. Arnold - 58
62. Rameau - 58
64. Adams - 57
65. Reich - 54
66. Bach, C.P.E. - 49
67. Medtner - 44
68. Pärt - 42
69. Purcell - 41
70. Corelli - 40
71. Rott - 39
72. Bellini - 38
73. Donizetti - 37
73. Hindemith - 37
73. Lully - 37
73. Penderecki - 37
77. Ives - 34
78. Hildegard - 32
78. Telemann - 32
80. Albeniz - 30
80. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 30
80. Novak - 30
83. Stockhausen - 28
83. Weber - 28
85. Gershwin - 27
86. Schumann, Clara - 25
87. Machaut - 23
88. Copland - 22
89. Enescu - 21
90. Rodrigo - 18
91. Biber - 17
92. Dowland - 16
92. Glazunov - 16
92. Gombert - 16
92. Gorecki - 16
92. Lutoslawski - 16
92. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 16
92. Takemitsu - 16
99. MacDowell - 15
99. Martinu - 15
101. Alkan - 14
101. Delius - 14
101. Hummel - 14
101. Paganini - 14
101. Strauss II, Johann - 14
101. Tallis - 14
101. Xenakis - 14
108. Borodin - 13
108. Harbison - 13
108. Smetana - 13
108. Tveitt - 13
112. Glinka - 12
112. Offenbach - 12
112. Spohr - 12
115. Berio - 11
115. Liefs - 11
117. Holst - 10
117. Lalo - 10
117. Rudland - 10
117. Vogelweide - 10
121. Brian - 9
121. Byrd - 9
121. Clementi - 9
121. Gojilov - 9
121. Respighi - 9
126. Beach - 8
126. Charpentier - 8
126. Crumb - 8
126. Wolf - 8
126. Zelenka - 8
126. Zimmerman - 8
132. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
133. Alwyn - 6
133. Boulez - 6
133. Locatelli - 6
133. Wohlfahrt - 6
137. Eberl - 5
137. Hartmann - 5
137. Sorabji - 5
137. Veress - 5
141. Ferneyhough - 4
141. Henze - 4
141. Schreker - 4
144. Carter - 3
144. Simpson - 3
144. Skalkottas - 3
144. Zemlinsky - 3
148. Allegri - 2
148. Brouwer - 2
148. Cherubini - 2
148. Danzi - 2
148. Poulenc - 2
148. Tower - 2
154. Bernstein - 1
154. Gubaidulina - 1
154. Krenek - 1
154. Meyerbeer - 1
154. Monti - 1
159. Czerny - -3
160. Schobert - -14


----------



## myaskovsky2002

pjang23 said:


> 10 Palestrina
> 9 Scarlatti
> 8 Purcell
> 7 Weber
> 6 Sibelius
> 5 Verdi
> 4 CPE Bach
> 3 Monteverdi
> 2 Bartok
> 1 Part
> -3 Alfven
> 
> Current Standings: Bartok is in
> 
> 1. Bach
> 2. Mozart
> 3. Beethoven
> 4. Schubert
> 5. Brahms
> 6. Wagner
> 7. Haydn
> 8. Schumann
> 9. Handel
> 10. Mahler
> 11. Mendelssohn
> 12. Debussy
> 13. Dvořák
> 14. Chopin
> 15. Tchaikovsky
> 16. Stravinsky
> 17. Ravel
> 18. Prokofiev
> 19. Shostakovich
> 20. Strauss, Richard
> 21. Liszt
> 22. Bartók
> 23. Verdi - 405
> 24. Monteverdi - 370
> 25. Sibelius - 356
> 26. Vivaldi - 249
> 27. Berlioz - 241
> 28. Bruckner - 227
> 29. Schoenberg - 221
> 30. Messiaen - 215
> 31. Fauré - 211
> 32. Mussorgsky - 204
> 33. Rachmaninoff - 195
> 34. Puccini - 178
> 35. Saint-Saëns - 171
> 36. Elgar - 170
> 37. Nielsen - 164
> 38. Ligeti - 159
> 39. Vaughan Williams - 155
> 40. Scriabin - 153
> 41. Janáček - 136
> 42. Grieg - 128
> 43. Berg - 114
> 43. Palestrina - 114
> 45. Barber - 111
> 46. Scarlatti, Domenico - 105
> 47. Webern - 104
> 48. Bach, J.C. - 100
> 49. Villa-Lobos - 95
> 50. Rossini - 88
> 51. Gluck - 87
> 52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 85
> 53. Josquin - 84
> 54. Satie - 76
> 55. Gesualdo - 74
> 56. Alfven - 73
> 57. Schnittke - 69
> 58. Bizet - 68
> 58. Varèse - 68
> 60. Glass - 66
> 61. Britten - 63
> 62. Arnold - 58
> 62. Rameau - 58
> 64. Adams - 57
> 65. Reich - 54
> 66. Bach, C.P.E. - 49
> 67. Medtner - 44
> 68. Pärt - 42
> 69. Purcell - 41
> 70. Corelli - 40
> 71. Rott - 39
> 72. Bellini - 38
> 73. Donizetti - 37
> 73. Hindemith - 37
> 73. Lully - 37
> 73. Penderecki - 37
> 77. Ives - 34
> 78. Hildegard - 32
> 78. Telemann - 32
> 80. Albeniz - 30
> 80. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 30
> 80. Novak - 30
> 83. Stockhausen - 28
> 83. Weber - 28
> 85. Gershwin - 27
> 86. Schumann, Clara - 25
> 87. Machaut - 23
> 88. Copland - 22
> 89. Enescu - 21
> 90. Rodrigo - 18
> 91. Biber - 17
> 92. Dowland - 16
> 92. Glazunov - 16
> 92. Gombert - 16
> 92. Gorecki - 16
> 92. Lutoslawski - 16
> 92. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 16
> 92. Takemitsu - 16
> 99. MacDowell - 15
> 99. Martinu - 15
> 101. Alkan - 14
> 101. Delius - 14
> 101. Hummel - 14
> 101. Paganini - 14
> 101. Strauss II, Johann - 14
> 101. Tallis - 14
> 101. Xenakis - 14
> 108. Borodin - 13
> 108. Harbison - 13
> 108. Smetana - 13
> 108. Tveitt - 13
> 112. Glinka - 12
> 112. Offenbach - 12
> 112. Spohr - 12
> 115. Berio - 11
> 115. Liefs - 11
> 117. Holst - 10
> 117. Lalo - 10
> 117. Rudland - 10
> 117. Vogelweide - 10
> 121. Brian - 9
> 121. Byrd - 9
> 121. Clementi - 9
> 121. Gojilov - 9
> 121. Respighi - 9
> 126. Beach - 8
> 126. Charpentier - 8
> 126. Crumb - 8
> 126. Wolf - 8
> 126. Zelenka - 8
> 126. Zimmerman - 8
> 132. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
> 133. Alwyn - 6
> 133. Boulez - 6
> 133. Locatelli - 6
> 133. Wohlfahrt - 6
> 137. Eberl - 5
> 137. Hartmann - 5
> 137. Sorabji - 5
> 137. Veress - 5
> 141. Ferneyhough - 4
> 141. Henze - 4
> 141. Schreker - 4
> 144. Carter - 3
> 144. Simpson - 3
> 144. Skalkottas - 3
> 144. Zemlinsky - 3
> 148. Allegri - 2
> 148. Brouwer - 2
> 148. Cherubini - 2
> 148. Danzi - 2
> 148. Poulenc - 2
> 148. Tower - 2
> 154. Bernstein - 1
> 154. Gubaidulina - 1
> 154. Krenek - 1
> 154. Meyerbeer - 1
> 154. Monti - 1
> 159. Czerny - -3
> 160. Schobert - -14


Schobert? Nice! Nice to meet him.

Mortin


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Actually here it is 35 degrees Celsius? 95 F. My air conditioning is working hard. I have 24 Celsius at home. 75 F. Better. I don't want to go out.

Martin


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Verdi = +9
Purcell = +8
JC Bach = +7
CPE Bach = +6
Puccini = +5
Donizetti = +4
Gluck = +3
Spohr = +2
Rameau = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## science

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Schobert? Nice! Nice to meet him.
> 
> Mortin


I feel like a villain whose evil plan has succeeded beautifully.


----------



## Turangalîla

*HEEEY everyone, VOTE FOR MESSIAEN!* He has gone down SIX rankings in the past two days. This is UNACCEPTABLE!


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Copland
7 Rossini
6 Borodin
5 Respighi
4 Byrd
3 Tallis
2 Ives
1 Palestrina

-3 JC Bach


----------



## tdc

10. Monteverdi
9. Villa-Lobos
8. Rameau
7. Gluck
6. Schnittke
5. Lully
4. Purcell
3. D. Scarlatti
2. Bruckner
1. Ives


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Saint-Saëns · 10
Satie · 9
Vivaldi · 8
Respighi · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Rossini · 3
Telemann · 2
Holst · 1


Yanni · -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Schoenberg
9. Berg
8. Webern
7. RVW
6. Xenakis
5. Stockhausen
4. Varese

-3 Bruckner


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

HEEEY everyone, VOTE FOR MESSIAEN! He has gone down SIX rankings in the past two days. This is UNACCEPTABLE!

How true... he should be sinking in the rankings at a much faster rate.

1. Gluck +10
2. J.C. Bach +9
3. Verdi +8
4. Monteverdi +7
5. Vivaldi +6
6. Rachmaninoff +5
7. Faure +4
8. Gesualdo +3
9. Alessandro Scarlatti +2
10. Rameau +1

Schoenberg -3

-3 JC Bach

Now no one could seriously dislike J.C. Bach to such a degree. He must have passed someone or be rapidly gaining on someone you really like.


----------



## science

10 Verdi
9 Faure 
8 Monteverdi
7 Vivaldi
6 Zelenka
5 Strauss, Johann II 
4 Gesualdo 
3 Enescu 
2 Lalo 
1 Bernstein 
-3 Schobert


----------



## Trout

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Now no one could seriously dislike J.C. Bach to such a degree. He must have passed someone or be rapidly gaining on someone you really like.


The person that I give the -3 vote is never someone I despise, rather someone that I find too high in the rankings. Oh, and he knocked down Josquin des Prez.


----------



## Arsakes

10. Sibelius
9. Liszt
8. Vivaldi
7. Rachmaninoff 
6. Berlioz
5. Mussorgsky
4. Bruckner
3. Glinka
2. Borodin
1. Ippoitov Ivanov

- 3 Schoenberg


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi - 432
24. Monteverdi - 395
25. Sibelius - 366
26. Vivaldi - 278
27. Berlioz - 247
28. Bruckner - 230
29. Fauré - 224
30. Schoenberg - 222
31. Messiaen - 215
32. Mussorgsky - 209
33. Rachmaninoff - 207
34. Puccini - 183
35. Saint-Saëns - 181
36. Vaughan Williams - 172
37. Elgar - 170
38. Nielsen - 164
39. Ligeti - 159
40. Scriabin - 153
41. Janáček - 136
42. Grieg - 128
43. Berg - 123
44. Palestrina - 115
45. Bach, J.C. - 113
46. Webern - 112
47. Barber - 111
48. Scarlatti, Domenico - 108
49. Gluck - 107
50. Villa-Lobos - 104
51. Rossini - 98
52. Josquin - 93
53. Rimsky-Korsakov - 85
53. Satie - 85
55. Gesualdo - 81
56. Schnittke - 75
57. Alfven - 73
58. Varèse - 72
59. Bizet - 68
59. Rameau - 68
61. Glass - 66
62. Britten - 63
63. Arnold - 58
64. Adams - 57
65. Bach, C.P.E. - 55
66. Reich - 54
67. Purcell - 53
68. Rott - 45
69. Medtner - 44
70. Lully - 42
70. Pärt - 42
72. Donizetti - 41
73. Corelli - 40
74. Bellini - 38
75. Hindemith - 37
75. Ives - 37
75. Penderecki - 37
78. Telemann - 34
79. Stockhausen - 33
80. Hildegard - 32
81. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 31
82. Albeniz - 30
82. Copland - 30
82. Novak - 30
85. Weber - 28
86. Gershwin - 27
87. Glazunov - 25
87. Schumann, Clara - 25
89. Enescu - 24
90. Machaut - 23
91. Borodin - 21
91. Respighi - 21
93. Xenakis - 20
94. Strauss II, Johann - 19
95. Rodrigo - 18
95. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 18
97. Biber - 17
97. Tallis - 17
99. Dowland - 16
99. Gombert - 16
99. Gorecki - 16
99. Lutoslawski - 16
99. Takemitsu - 16
104. Glinka - 15
104. MacDowell - 15
104. Martinu - 15
107. Alkan - 14
107. Delius - 14
107. Hummel - 14
107. Paganini - 14
107. Spohr - 14
107. Vogelweide - 14
107. Zelenka - 14
114. Byrd - 13
114. Harbison - 13
114. Smetana - 13
114. Tveitt - 13
114. Wolf - 13
119. Lalo - 12
119. Offenbach - 12
121. Berio - 11
121. Holst - 11
121. Liefs - 11
124. Haydn, Michael - 10
124. Rudland - 10
126. Brian - 9
126. Clementi - 9
126. Gojilov - 9
129. Beach - 8
129. Charpentier - 8
129. Crumb - 8
129. Zimmerman - 8
133. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
134. Alwyn - 6
134. Boulez - 6
134. Locatelli - 6
134. Wohlfahrt - 6
138. Eberl - 5
138. Hartmann - 5
138. Sorabji - 5
138. Veress - 5
142. Ferneyhough - 4
142. Henze - 4
142. Schreker - 4
145. Carter - 3
145. Simpson - 3
145. Skalkottas - 3
145. Zemlinsky - 3
149. Allegri - 2
149. Bernstein - 2
149. Brouwer - 2
149. Cherubini - 2
149. Danzi - 2
149. Poulenc - 2
149. Tower - 2
156. Gubaidulina - 1
156. Krenek - 1
156. Meyerbeer - 1
156. Monti - 1
160. Czerny - -3
161. Schobert - -17


----------



## Arsakes

Dammit! I didn't see Liszt on the list?

Can you transform his points to Glazunov?


----------



## pjang23

Arsakes said:


> Dammit! I didn't see Liszt on the list?
> 
> Can you transform his points to Glazunov?


No problem.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar 10
Saint-Saens 9
Monteverdi 8
Sibelius 7
Purcell 6
Verdi 5
Vivaldi 4
RVW 3
Bruckner 2
Berlioz 1
Messiaen -3


----------



## Vesteralen

10 pts for Nielsen
9 pts for Elgar
8 pts for J C Bach
7 pts for Arnold
6 pts for Alfven
5 pts for Monteverdi
4 pts for Sibelius
3 pts for Vaughan Williams
2 pts for Novak
1 pt for Alwyn


----------



## Vesteralen

myaskovsky2002 said:


> NMCT (*)
> 
> (*) Not my cup of tea.
> 
> This is older than me!
> 
> Martin, Dracul's son


It's not really mine, either. I generally don't even listen to churchy music.

*However* - this is the kind of *tonal quality* in singing that I love. If only later vocal music had featured this kind of direct, unfussy style, I might even be able to get into opera. Well, maybe....


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

I still don't get what qualifies a composer reaching a particular position. Is it whoever reaches at least x number of points before the others?


----------



## Vesteralen

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I still don't get what qualifies a composer reaching a particular position. Is it whoever reaches at least x number of points before the others?


450 points gets a composer "in"


----------



## Vesteralen

Interesting comparison with "100 Greatest Classical Composers" website:

Though the order is not exactly the same, our list agrees with that list on the Top 25 with three exceptions:

We have Ravel, Monetverdi and Sibelius (which they list as 29, 27, 28 respectively)

They have Berlioz, Vivaldi and Bruckner (which we list as 27, 26, 28 respectively)

Below thirty, things get much different...

(which, if you put it altogether indicates that there is only ONE difference in the top 29 - they have Palestrina and we have Faure.)


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Ligeti - 8
Hildegarde - 7
Glass - 6
Adams - 5
Schoenberg - 4
Gesualdo - 3
Webern - 2
Berg - 1

-3 for Fauré (because he passed Messiaen) (but he should now be below Messiaen after this vote)


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Long lists are boring.... I'm not sure I will post here again. By the way, CarterJohnson Piano is putting minus to composers I really love.
Tastes are tastes, n'est-ce pas?

Martin


----------



## Vesteralen

I was just doodling. Ignore me


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

posted by Science:

10 Verdi
9 Faure 
8 Monteverdi
7 Vivaldi
6 Zelenka
5 Strauss, Johann II 
4 Gesualdo 
3 Enescu 
2 Lalo 
1 Bernstein 
-3 Schobert

Yes! Johann Strauss II needs some love. Love the Fliedermaus... and there are some other marvelous operettas as well!

And Zelenka! How did I forget him. After the "big boys" (Bach, Handel, Vivaldi) I love Zelenka, Biber, and A. Scarlatti best of the Baroque. (Monteverdi is a transitional figure. You can't help but recognize how linked to the Renaissance he was until you listen to the madrigals.)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

My own personal Top-50 list would read something like this:

*1. J.S. Bach
2. W.A. Mozart
3. L.v. Beethoven
4. Richard Wagner
5. Franz Schubert
6. G.F. Handel
7. Joseph Haydn
8. J. Brahms
9. Richard Strauss
10. Robert Schumann
11. P. Tchaikovsky
12. Claude Debussy
13. Gustav Mahler
14. G. Verdi
15. Claudio Monteverdi*
16. Dimitri Shostakovitch
17. Sergei Rachmaninoff
18. Segei Prokofiev
19. Vincenzo Bellini
20. Gaetano Donizetti
21. C.W. Gluck
22. Antonio Vivaldi
23. Gabriel Faure
24. Maurice Ravel
25. Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov
26. Carlo Gesualdo
27. Josquin des Prez
28. Hildegard of Bingen
29. Franz Liszt
30. Antonin Dvorak
31. G. Puccini
32. Bruckner
33. Sibelius
34. Frederick Delius
35. Ralph Vaughan-Williams
36. Berlioz
37. Jules Massenet
38. F. Chopin
39. D. Scarlatti
40. Alessandro Scarlatti
41. J.C. Bach
42. Edvard Grieg
43. Igor Stravinsky
44. Benjamin Britten
45. Henry Purcell
46. G. Rossini
47. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
48. Jan Dismas Zelenka
49. Dietrich Buxtehude
50. Takemitsu

Of course all of it is open to change from day to day or on a moment's notice... with the exception of the top 15... which are pretty much solid.


----------



## mmsbls

10. Sibelius
9. Bruckner
8. Vivaldi
7. Verdi
6. Saint-Saens
5. Vaughan Williams
4. Faure
3. JC Bach
2. Monteverdi
1. Berlioz

-3 Messiaen


----------



## Vesteralen

StlukesguildOhio said:


> My own personal Top-50 list would read something like this:
> 
> *1. J.S. Bach
> 2. W.A. Mozart
> 3. L.v. Beethoven
> 4. Richard Wagner
> 5. Franz Schubert
> 6. G.F. Handel
> 7. Joseph Haydn
> 8. J. Brahms
> 9. Richard Strauss
> 10. Robert Schumann
> 11. P. Tchaikovsky
> 12. Claude Debussy
> 13. Gustav Mahler
> 14. G. Verdi
> 15. Claudio Monteverdi*
> 16. Dimitri Shostakovitch
> 17. Sergei Rachmaninoff
> 18. Segei Prokofiev
> 19. Vincenzo Bellini
> 20. Gaetano Donizetti
> 21. C.W. Gluck
> 22. Antonio Vivaldi
> 23. Gabriel Faure
> 24. Maurice Ravel
> 25. Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov
> 26. Carlo Gesualdo
> 27. Josquin des Prez
> 28. Hildegard of Bingen
> 29. Franz Liszt
> 30. Antonin Dvorak
> 31. G. Puccini
> 32. Bruckner
> 33. Sibelius
> 34. Frederick Delius
> 35. Ralph Vaughan-Williams
> 36. Berlioz
> 37. Jules Massenet
> 38. F. Chopin
> 39. D. Scarlatti
> 40. Alessandro Scarlatti
> 41. J.C. Bach
> 42. Edvard Grieg
> 43. Igor Stravinsky
> 44. Benjamin Britten
> 45. Henry Purcell
> 46. G. Rossini
> 47. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
> 48. Jan Dismas Zelenka
> 49. Dietrich Buxtehude
> 50. Takemitsu
> 
> Of course all of it is open to change from day to day or on a moment's notice... with the exception of the top 15... which are pretty much solid.


I was interested to see Massenet on your list. I was going to give him a few votes myself but I couldn't find his name on our list at all when I looked (and by that time, the selection process had been shut down).

At any rate, overall I'd say it's a pretty solid list, taking into consideration that you have an appreciation for opera as well as other genres. (I really don't have a great appreciation for opera myself, but that's just kind of a hole in my own experience that I haven't gotten enough motivation to really fill in yet.)


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Palestrina
7 Ives
6 Copland
5 Respighi
4 Gershwin
3 Hindemith
2 Varese
1 Borodin

-3 JC Bach


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Monteverdi
9 - Bizet
8 - Berlioz
7 - C.P.E. Bach
6 - Scarlatti
5 - Vivaldi
4 - Glass
3 - Lully
2 - Satie
1 - Lully


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Yes! Johann Strauss II needs some love. Love the Fliedermaus... and there are some other marvelous operettas as well!
> 
> And Zelenka! How did I forget him. After the "big boys" (Bach, Handel, Vivaldi) I love Zelenka, Biber, and A. Scarlatti best of the Baroque. (Monteverdi is a transitional figure. You can't help but recognize how linked to the Renaissance he was until you listen to the madrigals.)


Thank you man. I will continue to vote for both of them frequently.


----------



## Arsakes

J Strauss has been hammered down for some time ... It's time to give his true place back :trp:


----------



## myaskovsky2002

J. S. is not bad... But if I had to choose... I wouldn' t choose him.

M.P and N.M.


----------



## Couchie

StlukesguildOhio said:


> My own personal Top-50 list would read something like this:
> 
> *1. J.S. Bach
> 2. W.A. Mozart
> 3. L.v. Beethoven
> 4. Richard Wagner
> 5. Franz Schubert
> 6. G.F. Handel
> 7. Joseph Haydn
> 8. J. Brahms
> 9. Richard Strauss
> 10. Robert Schumann
> 11. P. Tchaikovsky
> 12. Claude Debussy
> 13. Gustav Mahler
> 14. G. Verdi
> 15. Claudio Monteverdi*
> 16. Dimitri Shostakovitch
> 17. Sergei Rachmaninoff
> 18. Segei Prokofiev
> 19. Vincenzo Bellini
> 20. Gaetano Donizetti
> 21. C.W. Gluck
> 22. Antonio Vivaldi
> 23. Gabriel Faure
> 24. Maurice Ravel
> 25. Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov
> 26. Carlo Gesualdo
> 27. Josquin des Prez
> 28. Hildegard of Bingen
> 29. Franz Liszt
> 30. Antonin Dvorak
> 31. G. Puccini
> 32. Bruckner
> 33. Sibelius
> 34. Frederick Delius
> 35. Ralph Vaughan-Williams
> 36. Berlioz
> 37. Jules Massenet
> 38. F. Chopin
> 39. D. Scarlatti
> 40. Alessandro Scarlatti
> 41. J.C. Bach
> 42. Edvard Grieg
> 43. Igor Stravinsky
> 44. Benjamin Britten
> 45. Henry Purcell
> 46. G. Rossini
> 47. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
> 48. Jan Dismas Zelenka
> 49. Dietrich Buxtehude
> 50. Takemitsu
> 
> Of course all of it is open to change from day to day or on a moment's notice... with the exception of the top 15... which are pretty much solid.


why would you vote those three hacks above our child Wagner? I hate you and pray you die.


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Scarlatti
8 Grieg
7 Purcell
6 Verdi
5 Sibelius
4 Weber
3 Rimsky-Korsakov
2 Puccini
1 Berg
-3 Cage (Race to the bottom :devil

Current Standings: Verdi is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi - 420
25. Sibelius - 392
26. Vivaldi - 295
27. Berlioz - 257
28. Bruckner - 241
29. Schoenberg - 226
30. Fauré - 225
31. Messiaen - 219
32. Mussorgsky - 218
33. Rachmaninoff - 207
34. Saint-Saëns - 196
35. Vaughan Williams - 193
36. Elgar - 189
37. Puccini - 185
38. Nielsen - 174
39. Ligeti - 167
40. Scriabin - 153
41. Grieg - 136
41. Janáček - 136
43. Palestrina - 133
44. Berg - 125
45. Scarlatti, Domenico - 123
46. Bach, J.C. - 121
47. Webern - 114
48. Barber - 111
49. Gluck - 107
50. Villa-Lobos - 104
51. Josquin - 102
52. Rossini - 98
53. Rimsky-Korsakov - 88
54. Satie - 87
55. Gesualdo - 84
56. Alfven - 79
57. Bizet - 77
58. Glass - 76
59. Schnittke - 75
60. Varèse - 74
61. Rameau - 68
62. Purcell - 66
63. Arnold - 65
64. Britten - 63
65. Adams - 62
65. Bach, C.P.E. - 62
67. Reich - 54
68. Lully - 45
68. Rott - 45
70. Ives - 44
70. Medtner - 44
72. Pärt - 42
73. Donizetti - 41
74. Corelli - 40
74. Hindemith - 40
76. Hildegard - 39
77. Bellini - 38
78. Penderecki - 37
79. Copland - 36
80. Telemann - 34
81. Stockhausen - 33
82. Novak - 32
82. Weber - 32
84. Gershwin - 31
84. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 31
86. Albeniz - 30
87. Respighi - 26
88. Glazunov - 25
88. Schumann, Clara - 25
90. Enescu - 24
91. Machaut - 23
92. Borodin - 22
93. Xenakis - 20
94. Strauss II, Johann - 19
95. Rodrigo - 18
95. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 18
97. Biber - 17
97. Tallis - 17
99. Dowland - 16
99. Gombert - 16
99. Gorecki - 16
99. Lutoslawski - 16
99. Takemitsu - 16
104. Glinka - 15
104. MacDowell - 15
104. Martinu - 15
107. Alkan - 14
107. Delius - 14
107. Hummel - 14
107. Paganini - 14
107. Spohr - 14
107. Vogelweide - 14
107. Zelenka - 14
114. Byrd - 13
114. Harbison - 13
114. Smetana - 13
114. Tveitt - 13
114. Wolf - 13
119. Lalo - 12
119. Offenbach - 12
121. Berio - 11
121. Holst - 11
121. Liefs - 11
124. Haydn, Michael - 10
124. Rudland - 10
126. Brian - 9
126. Clementi - 9
126. Gojilov - 9
129. Beach - 8
129. Charpentier - 8
129. Crumb - 8
129. Zimmerman - 8
133. Alwyn - 7
133. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
135. Boulez - 6
135. Locatelli - 6
135. Wohlfahrt - 6
138. Eberl - 5
138. Hartmann - 5
138. Sorabji - 5
138. Veress - 5
142. Ferneyhough - 4
142. Henze - 4
142. Schreker - 4
145. Carter - 3
145. Simpson - 3
145. Skalkottas - 3
145. Zemlinsky - 3
149. Allegri - 2
149. Bernstein - 2
149. Brouwer - 2
149. Cherubini - 2
149. Danzi - 2
149. Poulenc - 2
149. Tower - 2
156. Gubaidulina - 1
156. Krenek - 1
156. Meyerbeer - 1
156. Monti - 1
160. Cage - -3
160. Czerny - -3
162. Schobert - -17


----------



## Conor71

10 Sibelius
9 Bruckner
8 Villa-Lobos
7 Nielsen
6 Ligeti
5 Tallis
4 Part
3 Elgar
2 Faure
1 Josquin


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 RVW
6 Part
5 Janacek
4 Varese

-3 Bruckner


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Vivaldi = +9
JC Bach = +8
CPE Bach = +7
Telemann = +6
Hummel = +5
Rameau = +4
Lully = +3
Spohr = +2
Alessandro Scarlatti = +1

Xenakis = -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 Berlioz
9 Saint-Saens
8 Purcell
7 Barber
6 Vivaldi
5 Adams
4 Sibelius
3 Rossini
2 Rameau
1 Janacek


----------



## Machiavel

10 Berlioz. HE should be top ten imho
9 Schoenberg
8 Sibelius
7 Saint-saens
6 Scriabin
5 Monteverdi
4 Rossini
3 Bruckner
2 Vaughan williams
1 Faure
-3 Ligeti


----------



## Arsakes

10. Sibelius
9. Rachmaninoff
8. Vivaldi
7. J. Strauss II
6. Berlioz
5. Mussorgsky
4. Korsakov
3. Ippoitov Ivanov 
2. Borodin
1. Glinka

- 3 Messiaen


----------



## Turangalîla

These were all different votes (and I am sure there are more of them):



Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3





mmsbls said:


> -3 Messiaen





Arsakes said:


> - 3 Messiaen





Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3





mmsbls said:


> -3 Messiaen





Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3





HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Messiaen = -3





mmsbls said:


> -3 Messiaen





Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3





Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3


*IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR MUSIC, STOP THIS MADNESS*, I beg you!

Just sayin'.


----------



## Arsakes

I actually wanted to damage Schoenberg, but I said that's enough for now, so I found the Messiaen .. :lol:


----------



## Turangalîla

And now I will vote, after my little rant:

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Schoenberg - 8
Hildegarde - 7
Ligeti - 6

Elgar -3


----------



## tdc

10. Monteverdi
9. Villa-Lobos
8. Lully
7. Purcell
6. Rameau
5. Gluck
4. Copland
3. Bruckner
2. Janacek
1. Sibelius


----------



## science

10 Vivaldi 
9 Zelenka 
8 Bernstein
7 Schoenberg
6 Faure 
5 Janacek 
4 Monteverdi 
3 Delius 
2 Berio 
1 Locatelli 
-3 Schobert


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi - 439
25. Sibelius - 425
26. Vivaldi - 328
27. Berlioz - 283
28. Schoenberg - 260
29. Bruckner - 253
30. Fauré - 234
31. Mussorgsky - 232
32. Messiaen - 226
33. Rachmaninoff - 216
34. Saint-Saëns - 212
35. Vaughan Williams - 202
36. Elgar - 189
37. Puccini - 185
38. Nielsen - 181
39. Ligeti - 176
40. Scriabin - 159
41. Janáček - 149
42. Grieg - 136
43. Berg - 134
44. Palestrina - 133
45. Bach, J.C. - 129
46. Scarlatti, Domenico - 123
47. Webern - 122
48. Villa-Lobos - 121
49. Barber - 118
50. Gluck - 112
51. Rossini - 105
52. Josquin - 103
53. Rimsky-Korsakov - 92
54. Satie - 87
55. Gesualdo - 84
56. Purcell - 81
57. Rameau - 80
58. Alfven - 79
59. Varèse - 78
60. Bizet - 77
61. Glass - 76
62. Schnittke - 75
63. Bach, C.P.E. - 69
64. Adams - 67
65. Arnold - 65
66. Britten - 63
67. Lully - 56
68. Reich - 54
69. Pärt - 52
70. Hildegard - 46
71. Rott - 45
72. Ives - 44
72. Medtner - 44
74. Donizetti - 41
75. Copland - 40
75. Corelli - 40
75. Hindemith - 40
75. Telemann - 40
79. Bellini - 38
80. Penderecki - 37
81. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 34
82. Stockhausen - 33
83. Novak - 32
83. Weber - 32
85. Gershwin - 31
86. Albeniz - 30
87. Respighi - 26
87. Strauss II, Johann - 26
89. Glazunov - 25
89. Schumann, Clara - 25
91. Borodin - 24
91. Enescu - 24
93. Machaut - 23
93. Zelenka - 23
95. Tallis - 22
96. Haydn, Michael - 20
97. Hummel - 19
97. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 19
99. Rodrigo - 18
100. Biber - 17
100. Delius - 17
100. Xenakis - 17
103. Dowland - 16
103. Glinka - 16
103. Gombert - 16
103. Gorecki - 16
103. Lutoslawski - 16
103. Spohr - 16
103. Takemitsu - 16
110. MacDowell - 15
110. Martinu - 15
112. Alkan - 14
112. Paganini - 14
112. Vogelweide - 14
115. Berio - 13
115. Byrd - 13
115. Harbison - 13
115. Smetana - 13
115. Tveitt - 13
115. Wolf - 13
121. Lalo - 12
121. Offenbach - 12
123. Holst - 11
123. Liefs - 11
125. Bernstein - 10
125. Rudland - 10
127. Brian - 9
127. Clementi - 9
127. Gojilov - 9
130. Beach - 8
130. Charpentier - 8
130. Crumb - 8
130. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Schreker - 4
146. Carter - 3
146. Simpson - 3
146. Skalkottas - 3
146. Zemlinsky - 3
150. Allegri - 2
150. Brouwer - 2
150. Cherubini - 2
150. Danzi - 2
150. Poulenc - 2
150. Tower - 2
156. Gubaidulina - 1
156. Krenek - 1
156. Meyerbeer - 1
156. Monti - 1
160. Cage - -3
160. Czerny - -3
162. Schobert - -20


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

These were all different votes (and I am sure there are more of them):

Originally Posted by Very Senior Member 
Messiaen -3
Originally Posted by mmsbls 
-3 Messiaen
Originally Posted by Arsakes 
- 3 Messiaen
Originally Posted by Very Senior Member 
Messiaen -3
Originally Posted by mmsbls 
-3 Messiaen
Originally Posted by Very Senior Member 
Messiaen -3
Originally Posted by HarpsichordConcerto 
Messiaen = -3
Originally Posted by mmsbls 
-3 Messiaen
Originally Posted by Very Senior Member 
Messiaen -3
Originally Posted by Very Senior Member 
Messiaen -3

IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR MUSIC, STOP THIS MADNESS, I beg you!

On the contrary, I call for every last participant to vote Messiaen down. Currently he stands 32nd. The 32nd greatest composer ever! Really? Really? Better than Rachmaninoff? Puccini? Vaughan-Williams? Gluck? Rossini? Bellini? Donizetti? Rimsky-Korsakov? Britten? Berg and Webern? Let's face it... Messiaen is just one of a slew of 20th century composers of some real merit... but certainly not deserving of ranking along side Mussorgsky, Bruckner, Faure... nor above any number of other composers. But then if we glance through this thread we might discover that out of the 226 points voted to Messiaen... 150 take or give a few... come from a single person (Can we all guess who?). In order to avoid this abomination, I call for all members to give Messiaen -3 points every round.

And now for my vote:

1. Rachmaninoff +10
2. Faure +9
3. Mussorgsky +8
4. Bruckner +7
5. Gluck +6
6. J.C. Bach +5
7. Puccini +4
8. Vaughan-Williams +3
9. Berg +2
10. Palestrina +1

Messiaen -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Saint-Saëns · 10
Satie · 9
Vivaldi · 8
Respighi · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Elgar · 3
Holst · 2
Purcell · 1

Suppenkasper · -3


----------



## mmsbls

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> *IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR MUSIC, STOP THIS MADNESS*, I beg you!





StlukesguildOhio said:


> But then if we glance through this thread we might discover that out of the 226 points voted to Messiaen... 150 take or give a few... come from a single person


The case of Messiaen is interesting. Presently Messiaen is in 32nd place. The highest position I saw for Messiaen was 23rd place. If I subtract just CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes (actually 191), Messiaen would have 35 votes and be in 81st place. If I subtract both CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes and all negative votes against Messiaen, Messiaen would have 71 votes and be in 63rd place. I'm not sure if there are other composers who benefit so strongly from a single person. Of course, if the present trend continues, Messiaen will fall further so it's not clear where he will ultimately finish.


----------



## peeyaj

-3 points
*
Messeian*


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar 10
Saint-Saens 9
Monteverdi 8
Sibelius 7
Purcell 6
Vivaldi 5
Berlioz 4
Puccini 3
RVW 2
Bruckner 1
Messiaen -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

mmsbls said:


> The case of Messiaen is interesting. Presently Messiaen is in 32nd place. The highest position I saw for Messiaen was 23rd place. If I subtract just CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes (actually 191), Messiaen would have 35 votes and be in 81st place. If I subtract both CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes and all negative votes against Messiaen, Messiaen would have 71 votes and be in 63rd place. I'm not sure if there are other composers who benefit so strongly from a single person. Of course, if the present trend continues, Messiaen will fall further so it's not clear where he will ultimately finish.


 The essential problem is that there are too few of us involved in the voting. I've been mainly attempting to cast my votes as objectively as I can in order to offset some of the more glaring oddities in the rankings, like for example Messiaen's ludicrously over-rated appearance in the low 20's at one stage. There are many other composers who should appear before him. Messiaen's rightful place is more like around 50-60 in the ranks.


----------



## pjang23

peeyaj said:


> -3 points
> *
> Messeian*


:lol: Poor birdman


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - Berlioz
8 - Vivaldi
7 - Scarlatti
6 - Grieg
5 - Glass
4 - J.C. Bach
3 - Monteverdi
2 - Lully
1 - Satie

*-3 - Messiaen*


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> The essential problem is that there are too few of us involved in the voting. I've been mainly attempting to cast my votes as objectively as I can in order to offset some of the more glaring oddities in the rankings, like for example Messiaen's ludicrously over-rated appearance in the low 20's at one stage. There are many other composers who should appear before him. Messiaen's rightful place is more like around 50-60 in the ranks.


Agreed. That, combined with the current point system allows each individual voter to have a significant influence on results (everyone has ten positive votes, and the +10 vote is pretty big).

*I've been thinking about whether we should reduce the 450 goal to 400 after Monteverdi and Sibelius are enshrined since it seems like too high of a number now (everyone else but Vivaldi is below 300). On the other hand, keeping it at 450 does allow more time for corrective voting. What do you guys think?*

Current Standings: Monteverdi is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius - 432
26. Vivaldi - 349
27. Berlioz - 296
28. Bruckner - 261
29. Schoenberg - 260
30. Fauré - 243
31. Mussorgsky - 240
32. Saint-Saëns - 231
33. Rachmaninoff - 226
34. Messiaen - 214
35. Vaughan Williams - 207
36. Elgar - 202
37. Puccini - 192
38. Nielsen - 181
39. Ligeti - 176
40. Scriabin - 159
41. Janáček - 149
42. Grieg - 142
43. Bach, J.C. - 138
44. Berg - 136
45. Palestrina - 134
46. Scarlatti, Domenico - 130
47. Webern - 122
48. Villa-Lobos - 121
49. Barber - 118
49. Gluck - 118
51. Rossini - 105
52. Josquin - 103
53. Satie - 97
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 92
55. Purcell - 88
56. Bizet - 87
57. Gesualdo - 84
58. Glass - 81
59. Rameau - 80
60. Alfven - 79
61. Varèse - 78
62. Schnittke - 75
63. Bach, C.P.E. - 69
64. Adams - 67
65. Arnold - 65
66. Britten - 63
67. Lully - 58
68. Reich - 54
69. Pärt - 52
70. Rott - 51
71. Hildegard - 46
72. Ives - 44
72. Medtner - 44
74. Donizetti - 41
75. Copland - 40
75. Corelli - 40
75. Hindemith - 40
75. Telemann - 40
79. Bellini - 38
80. Penderecki - 37
81. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 34
82. Respighi - 33
82. Stockhausen - 33
84. Novak - 32
84. Weber - 32
86. Gershwin - 31
87. Albeniz - 30
88. Strauss II, Johann - 26
89. Glazunov - 25
89. Schumann, Clara - 25
91. Borodin - 24
91. Enescu - 24
93. Machaut - 23
93. Zelenka - 23
95. Tallis - 22
96. Haydn, Michael - 20
97. Hummel - 19
97. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 19
99. Rodrigo - 18
99. Vogelweide - 18
99. Wolf - 18
102. Biber - 17
102. Delius - 17
102. Xenakis - 17
105. Dowland - 16
105. Glinka - 16
105. Gombert - 16
105. Gorecki - 16
105. Lutoslawski - 16
105. Spohr - 16
105. Takemitsu - 16
112. MacDowell - 15
112. Martinu - 15
114. Alkan - 14
114. Paganini - 14
116. Berio - 13
116. Byrd - 13
116. Harbison - 13
116. Holst - 13
116. Smetana - 13
116. Tveitt - 13
122. Lalo - 12
122. Offenbach - 12
124. Liefs - 11
125. Bernstein - 10
125. Rudland - 10
127. Brian - 9
127. Clementi - 9
127. Gojilov - 9
130. Beach - 8
130. Charpentier - 8
130. Crumb - 8
130. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Schreker - 4
146. Carter - 3
146. Simpson - 3
146. Skalkottas - 3
146. Zemlinsky - 3
150. Allegri - 2
150. Brouwer - 2
150. Cherubini - 2
150. Danzi - 2
150. Poulenc - 2
150. Tower - 2
156. Gubaidulina - 1
156. Krenek - 1
156. Meyerbeer - 1
156. Monti - 1
160. Cage - -3
160. Czerny - -3
162. Schobert - -20


----------



## crmoorhead

mmsbls said:


> The case of Messiaen is interesting. Presently Messiaen is in 32nd place. The highest position I saw for Messiaen was 23rd place. If I subtract just CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes (actually 191), Messiaen would have 35 votes and be in 81st place. If I subtract both CarterJohnsonPiano's Messiaen votes and all negative votes against Messiaen, Messiaen would have 71 votes and be in 63rd place. I'm not sure if there are other composers who benefit so strongly from a single person. Of course, if the present trend continues, Messiaen will fall further so it's not clear where he will ultimately finish.


I don't see the point in voting negatively for Messiaen. It's going to take a lot of points to reach 450, and that isn't going to happen until people (more than one) start voting for him in numbers. The system works pretty well as it is, IMO. I'll start voting for Messiaen when I start running out of my other preferred choices (soon).


----------



## crmoorhead

pjang23 said:


> *I've been thinking about whether we should reduce the 450 goal to 400 after Monteverdi and Sibelius are enshrined since it seems like too high of a number now (everyone else but Vivaldi is below 300). On the other hand, keeping it at 450 does allow more time for corrective voting. What do you guys think?*


It depends on how many people are voting each day. Each person gets a total of 55 votes if they use them all. Multiply by the average number of user each day to find out what the daily input of points is.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Bruckner - 9
Grieg - 8
Reich - 7
Adams - 6
Tveitt - 5
Penderecki - 4
Brian - 3
Pärt - 2
Crumb - 1


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Ligeti: -3

A piece for 100 metronomes.... give me a break.. that's not innovation, it's just nonsense. I haven't heard anything remotely interesting or beautiful from this guy. Avantgarde for the sake of being avantgarde. And his piano pieces are so dumb they make me cringe:


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> *I've been thinking about whether we should reduce the 450 goal to 400 after Monteverdi and Sibelius are enshrined since it seems like too high of a number now (everyone else but Vivaldi is below 300). On the other hand, keeping it at 450 does allow more time for corrective voting. What do you guys think?*


I think that'd be fine, but I'm indifferent. (If it'd be less work for you, I'd be pretty strongly in favor.)

If you decide to make the change, what I suggest is announcing that the rule will change when we get to, say, #30, and at that point start a new thread with the top 30 listed in the first post so that you don't have to keep listing them.


----------



## Vesteralen

10 pts - Nielsen
9 pts - Alfven
8 pts - Arnold
7 pts - Elgar
6 pts - J C Bach
5 pts - Vaughan Williams
4 pts - Barber
3 pts - Novak
2 pts - Saint-Saens
1 pt - Sibelius


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Sibelius
9. Bruckner
8.	Vivaldi
7.	Saint-Saens
6.	Vaughan Williams
5.	Faure
4.	JC Bach
3.	Berlioz
2.	Elgar
1.	Puccini

-3	Messiaen


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Copland
7 Britten
6 Borodin
5 Varese
4 Rameau
3 Purcell
2 Ives
1 Palestrina

-3 JC Bach


----------



## Toddlertoddy

I think the problem is that we don't have enough negative votes to get rid of the idiosyncrasy. But I think we should keep the 450 limit.

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 RVW
6 Elgar
5 Reich
4 Glass

-3 Bruckner


----------



## science

All of the votes for Zelenka, Gombert, Golijov [not "Gojilov"], and Takemitsu have been mine.

And all but one of the votes for Offenbach and Bernstein.


----------



## Turangalîla

StlukesguildOhio said:


> On the contrary, I call for every last participant to vote Messiaen down. Currently he stands 32nd. The 32nd greatest composer ever! Really? Really? Better than Rachmaninoff? Puccini? Vaughan-Williams? Gluck? Rossini? Bellini? Donizetti? Rimsky-Korsakov? Britten? Berg and Webern? Let's face it... Messiaen is just one of a slew of 20th century composers of some real merit... but certainly not deserving of ranking along side Mussorgsky, Bruckner, Faure... nor above any number of other composers. But then if we glance through this thread we might discover that out of the 226 points voted to Messiaen... 150 take or give a few... come from a single person (Can we all guess who?). In order to avoid this abomination, I call for all members to give Messiaen -3 points every round.
> 
> Messiaen -3






peeyaj said:


> -3 points
> *
> Messeian*





Very Senior Member said:


> Messiaen -3





Very Senior Member said:


> The essential problem is that there are too few of us involved in the voting. I've been mainly attempting to cast my votes as objectively as I can in order to offset some of the more glaring oddities in the rankings, like for example Messiaen's ludicrously over-rated appearance in the low 20's at one stage. There are many other composers who should appear before him. Messiaen's rightful place is more like around 50-60 in the ranks.





StevenOBrien said:


> 5 - Glass
> 
> ...
> 
> *-3 - Messiaen*





crmoorhead said:


> I don't see the point in voting negatively for Messiaen. It's going to take a lot of points to reach 450, and that isn't going to happen until people (more than one) start voting for him in numbers. The system works pretty well as it is, IMO. I'll start voting for Messiaen when I start running out of my other preferred choices (soon).





mmsbls said:


> -3	Messiaen


You guys are getting ridiculous (except crmoorhead). There are several composers who have received their votes *exclusively* from one person. The only reason that Messiaen is above them is because Messiaen has actually gotten votes from several other people. On the previous TC Composer Ranking thread, Messiaen was in the top 50. *I was not even a TC member when this took place.* With the way that the voting has been going, Messiaen's position has been declining steadily _without_ any negative votes from you. If you continue to give him a bombardment of negative votes, he will be below the 50 mark by the time the thread is over, which is even lower than the his ranking on the previous composer ranking thread. How many of you own any scores or recordings of Messiaen? I bet that some of you voted against him without even listening to his music just because Stlukesguild told you to. IMO he is the most original, unique, and fabulous of all the modern composers (eg. Ligeti, Crumb), and certainly far greater than Philip Glass (StevenOBrien?). Of course, I realize that some members find it difficult to open their ears to anything composed after 1950. On the Modern Classical music project, who was the only composer to have _two_ pieces in the top ten on the list? Not Prokofiev. Not Debussy. Not Bartok. Not Berg or Webern. And certainly not Philip Glass. It was Messiaen. I would appreciate if people studied his music a little more before you decide that he was just "one of a slew of 20th century composers".


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10

-3 Vaughan Williams

And, for the record, I suport pjang's idea of lowering it to 400 points instead of 450 after Sibelius passes through.


----------



## Air

+10 Messiaen
+9 Ligeti
+8 Varese
+7 Scarlatti
+6 Rameau
+5 Palestrina
+4 Telemann
+3 Villa-Lobos
+2 Ives
+1 Weber

-3 Faure


----------



## science

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> You guys are getting ridiculous (except crmoorhead). There are several composers who have received their votes *exclusively* from one person. The only reason that Messiaen is above them is because Messiaen has actually gotten votes from several other people. On the previous TC Composer Ranking thread, Messiaen was in the top 50. *I was not even a TC member when this took place.* With the way that the voting has been going, Messiaen's position has been declining steadily _without_ any negative votes from you. If you continue to give him a bombardment of negative votes, he will be below the 50 mark by the time the thread is over, which is even lower than the his ranking on the previous composer ranking thread. How many of you own any scores or recordings of Messiaen? I bet that some of you voted against him without even listening to his music just because Stlukesguild told you to. IMO he is the most original, unique, and fabulous of all the modern composers (eg. Ligeti, Crumb), and certainly far greater than Philip Glass (StevenOBrien?). Of course, I realize that some members find it difficult to open their ears to anything composed after 1950. On the Modern Classical music project, who was the only composer to have _two_ pieces in the top ten on the list? Not Prokofiev. Not Debussy. Not Bartok. Not Berg or Webern. And certainly not Philip Glass. It was Messiaen. I would appreciate if people studied his music a little more before you decide that he was just "one of a slew of 20th century composers".


Do you play any of his solo piano compositions?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> You guys are getting ridiculous (except crmoorhead). There are several composers who have received their votes *exclusively* from one person. The only reason that Messiaen is above them is because Messiaen has actually gotten votes from several other people. On the previous TC Composer Ranking thread, Messiaen was in the top 50. *I was not even a TC member when this took place.* With the way that the voting has been going, Messiaen's position has been declining steadily _without_ any negative votes from you. If you continue to give him a bombardment of negative votes, he will be below the 50 mark by the time the thread is over, which is even lower than the his ranking on the previous composer ranking thread. How many of you own any scores or recordings of Messiaen? I bet that some of you voted against him without even listening to his music just because Stlukesguild told you to. IMO he is the most original, unique, and fabulous of all the modern composers (eg. Ligeti, Crumb), and certainly far greater than Philip Glass (StevenOBrien?). Of course, I realize that some members find it difficult to open their ears to anything composed after 1950. On the Modern Classical music project, who was the only composer to have _two_ pieces in the top ten on the list? Not Prokofiev. Not Debussy. Not Bartok. Not Berg or Webern. And certainly not Philip Glass. It was Messiaen. I would appreciate if people studied his music a little more before you decide that he was just "one of a slew of 20th century composers".


You need to calm down because you need to realize that not everyone shares your opinion. In fact, your opinion doesn't even matter (at all) to other people. Just be persistent.


----------



## Turangalîla

science said:


> Do you play any of his solo piano compositions?


Certainly. I have started work on _Vingt regards sur l'enfant-Jésus_, which should take a couple of years to learn and polish. I have also looked at _Catalogue d'oiseaux_, and I am trying desperately to find people to perform _Quatuor pour la fin du temps_ with me, as well as the piano duo _Visions de l'amen_. One of my life goals (very few things that reached that status) is to perform _Turangalîla-Symphonie_ with an orchestra.


----------



## Turangalîla

Toddlertoddy said:


> You need to calm down because you need to realize that not everyone shares your opinion. In fact, your opinion doesn't even matter (at all) to other people. Just be persistent.


I realize that not everyone shares my opinion. I am not angry at people for not liking him. What I am angry about is tons of people joining the "Anti-Messiaen" movement, started by Stlukesguild, when most of them probably have insufficient knowledge about the composer. Voting against a composer like that is very immature. I personally think that composers like Fauré, Sibelius, and Berlioz are far too high on the list, but I am not encouraging everyone to start a revolt against them.


----------



## StevenOBrien

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> IMO he is the most original, unique, and fabulous of all the modern composers (eg. Ligeti, Crumb), and certainly far greater than Philip Glass (StevenOBrien?). Of course, I realize that some members find it difficult to open their ears to anything composed after 1950. On the Modern Classical music project, who was the only composer to have _two_ pieces in the top ten on the list? Not Prokofiev. Not Debussy. Not Bartok. Not Berg or Webern. And certainly not Philip Glass. It was Messiaen. I would appreciate if people studied his music a little more before you decide that he was just "one of a slew of 20th century composers".


Nobody's stopping you from leaving -3s for Philip Glass :/. If you disagree with my voting for him, then by all means go ahead and downvote him, this is a democracy after all! Even though Glass' music has affected and influenced me more than any other composer of the latter half of the 20th century, I don't expect him to reach the Top 50, because I know a lot of people have rather negative opinions on his music here, but I'd still like to see him somewhere on the list.

If you really feel Messiaen should be higher than he is, then just give him a consistent 10 points on each of your following votes! If the masses agree with you, he'll do well, if not, then oh well. This is TC's top 50 greatest composers after all, not CarterJohnsonPiano's .


----------



## pjang23

crmoorhead said:


> It depends on how many people are voting each day. Each person gets a total of 55 votes if they use them all. Multiply by the average number of user each day to find out what the daily input of points is.


We have 17 voters per day, with occasional input from a few more. Comparing figures day-by-day, front runners (Monteverdi, Sibelius, Vivaldi) earn about 50 points per day while the next twenty earn between 10-30 (average 18) points per day. I think bringing it from 450 to 400 should be fine.

10 Palestrina
9 Scarlatti
8 Grieg
7 Sibelius
6 Purcell
5 Puccini
4 Part
3 Rimsky-Korsakov
2 Weber
1 Josquin
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Sibelius is in

*As of now, composers only need to reach 400 points, not 450.*

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi - 357
27. Berlioz - 299
28. Bruckner - 276
29. Schoenberg - 270
30. Fauré - 245
31. Mussorgsky - 240
31. Saint-Saëns - 240
33. Vaughan Williams - 232
34. Messiaen - 231
35. Rachmaninoff - 226
36. Elgar - 217
37. Puccini - 198
38. Ligeti - 192
39. Nielsen - 191
40. Scriabin - 169
41. Grieg - 158
42. Palestrina - 150
43. Janáček - 149
44. Scarlatti, Domenico - 146
45. Bach, J.C. - 145
45. Berg - 145
47. Webern - 130
48. Villa-Lobos - 124
49. Barber - 122
50. Gluck - 118
51. Josquin - 113
52. Rossini - 105
53. Purcell - 97
53. Satie - 97
55. Rimsky-Korsakov - 95
56. Varèse - 91
57. Rameau - 90
58. Alfven - 88
59. Bizet - 87
60. Glass - 85
61. Gesualdo - 84
62. Schnittke - 75
63. Adams - 73
63. Arnold - 73
65. Britten - 70
66. Bach, C.P.E. - 69
67. Reich - 66
68. Lully - 58
68. Pärt - 58
70. Rott - 51
71. Copland - 48
71. Ives - 48
73. Hildegard - 46
74. Medtner - 44
74. Telemann - 44
76. Donizetti - 41
76. Penderecki - 41
78. Corelli - 40
78. Hindemith - 40
80. Bellini - 38
81. Novak - 35
81. Weber - 35
83. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 34
84. Respighi - 33
84. Stockhausen - 33
86. Gershwin - 31
87. Albeniz - 30
87. Borodin - 30
89. Strauss II, Johann - 26
90. Glazunov - 25
90. Schumann, Clara - 25
92. Enescu - 24
93. Machaut - 23
93. Zelenka - 23
95. Tallis - 22
96. Haydn, Michael - 20
97. Hummel - 19
97. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 19
99. Rodrigo - 18
99. Tveitt - 18
99. Vogelweide - 18
99. Wolf - 18
103. Biber - 17
103. Delius - 17
103. Xenakis - 17
106. Dowland - 16
106. Glinka - 16
106. Gombert - 16
106. Gorecki - 16
106. Lutoslawski - 16
106. Spohr - 16
106. Takemitsu - 16
113. MacDowell - 15
113. Martinu - 15
115. Alkan - 14
115. Paganini - 14
117. Berio - 13
117. Byrd - 13
117. Harbison - 13
117. Holst - 13
117. Smetana - 13
122. Brian - 12
122. Lalo - 12
122. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
126. Bernstein - 10
126. Rudland - 10
128. Clementi - 9
128. Crumb - 9
128. Golijov - 9
131. Beach - 8
131. Charpentier - 8
131. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Schreker - 4
146. Carter - 3
146. Simpson - 3
146. Skalkottas - 3
146. Zemlinsky - 3
150. Allegri - 2
150. Brouwer - 2
150. Cherubini - 2
150. Danzi - 2
150. Poulenc - 2
150. Tower - 2
156. Gubaidulina - 1
156. Krenek - 1
156. Meyerbeer - 1
156. Monti - 1
160. Czerny - -3
161. Cage - -6
162. Schobert - -20


----------



## Lisztian

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> I realize that not everyone shares my opinion. I am not angry at people for not liking him. What I am angry about is tons of people joining the "Anti-Messiaen" movement, started by Stlukesguild, when most of them probably have insufficient knowledge about the composer. Voting against a composer like that is very immature. I personally think that composers like Fauré, Sibelius, and Berlioz are far too high on the list, but I am not encouraging everyone to start a revolt against them.


I was WITH you there...until you mentioned Berlioz. I think he's too low! The man was a genius and very revolutionary composer.

10: Rachmaninoff.
9: Berlioz.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

A comparison of Trout's list here:

This thread:

1. Bach +1
2. Mozart +1
3. Beethoven -2
4. Schubert 0
5. Brahms 0
6. Wagner +1
7. Haydn +2
8. Schumann *+10*
9. Handel +3
10. Mahler -2
11. Mendelssohn *+8*
12. Debussy -2
13. Dvořák 0
14. Chopin -3
15. Tchaikovsky *-9*
16. Stravinsky 0
17. Ravel +3
18. Prokofiev -3
19. Shostakovich -2
20. Strauss, Richard +1
21. Liszt +1
22. Bartók +2
23. Verdi +3 (isn't on other list)
24. Monteverdi +3 (isn't on other list)
25. Sibelius *-11*

Other thread:

1.	Ludwig van Beethoven
2.	Johann Sebastian Bach
3.	Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
4.	Franz Schubert
5.	Johannes Brahms
6.	Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
7.	Richard Wagner
8.	Gustav Mahler
9.	Joseph Haydn
10.	Claude Debussy
11.	Frédéric Chopin
12.	George Frideric Handel
13.	Antonín Dvořák
14.	Jean Sibelius
15.	Sergei Prokofiev
16.	Igor Stravinsky
17.	Dmitri Shostakovich
18.	Robert Schumann
19.	Felix Mendelssohn
20.	Maurice Ravel
21.	Richard Strauss
22.	Franz Liszt
23.	Sergei Rachmaninoff
24.	Béla Bartók
25. Anton Bruckner

Definitely some oddities here (Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Sibelius).


----------



## Turangalîla

StevenOBrien said:


> Nobody's stopping you from leaving -3s for Philip Glass :/. If you disagree with my voting for him, then by all means go ahead and downvote him, this is a democracy after all! Even though Glass' music has affected and influenced me more than any other composer of the latter half of the 20th century, I don't expect him to reach the Top 50, because I know a lot of people have rather negative opinions on his music here, but I'd still like to see him somewhere on the list.
> 
> If you really feel Messiaen should be higher than he is, then just give him a consistent 10 points on each of your following votes! If the masses agree with you, he'll do well, if not, then oh well. This is TC's top 50 greatest composers after all, not CarterJohnsonPiano's .


I really like Glass and have voted for him many times; I just thought it was ironic that someone would give him five points and take some away from Messiaen.

I _do_ give him ten points every day! The masses are being immature! If it was CarterJohnson's top composers, Messiaen would be in the top six. However, it is not, and I am not complaining about that. Like I said, there are several composers that I think are too high, but I don't vote against them aggressively every day.


----------



## crmoorhead

pjang23 said:


> We have 17 voters per day, with occasional input from a few more. Comparing figures day-by-day, front runners (Monteverdi, Sibelius, Vivaldi) earn about 50 points per day while the next twenty earn between 10-30 (average 18) points per day. I think bringing it from 450 to 400 should be fine.


Seems a sensible idea. My votes:

10. Berlioz
9. Saint-Saens
8. Faure
7. Barber
6. Messiaen 
5. Rossini
4. Janacek
3. Purcell
2. rameau
1. Adams


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Hummel = +9
Rossini = +8
Donizetti = +7
JC Bach = +6
CPE Bach = +5
Telemann = +4
Sphor = +3
Alessandro Scarlatti = +2
Dowland = +1

Stockhusen = -3


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Vivaldi
8. Bruckner
7. D Scarlatti
6. Berg
5. Webern
4. Schnittke
3. Albeniz
2. Copland
1. Ives


----------



## Arsakes

10. Vivaldi
9. Berlioz
8. Bruckner
7. Saint-Saëns 
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Mussorgsky
4. Glazunov
3. Rimsky-Korsakov
2. Ippolitov-Ivanov
1. Johann Strauss II

-3 Tower (Towers must fall lol)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

How many of you own any scores or recordings of Messiaen? I bet that some of you voted against him without even listening to his music just because Stlukesguild told you to. IMO he is the most original, unique, and fabulous of all the modern composers (eg. Ligeti, Crumb), and certainly far greater than Philip Glass (StevenOBrien?). Of course, I realize that some members find it difficult to open their ears to anything composed after 1950. On the Modern Classical music project, who was the only composer to have two pieces in the top ten on the list? Not Prokofiev. Not Debussy. Not Bartok. Not Berg or Webern. And certainly not Philip Glass. It was Messiaen. I would appreciate if people studied his music a little more before you decide that he was just "one of a slew of 20th century composers".

I will assume that member "trout" who has voted against J.C. Bach repeatedly doesn't necessarily hate J.C. Bach... but rather he feels that he is overrated in comparison to some composers he admires. Certainly I will assume the same was true when certain members voted against Beethoven or Mozart or Brahms or Handel. They probably didn't hate those composers... they may even have quite liked them... but they voted against them as a strategy in order to assure that a composer they admired more ended up higher on the list.

I personally don't dislike Messiaen. I have enjoyed his _Quatuor pour la fin du temps_ for a good many years. I'm equally fond of a good many of his organ works, _La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ_, and the _Turangalîla-Symphonie_. It is quite possible to be familiar with Messiaen... even like him... and yet feel that he is not as important of a composer... nor a composer that one personally enjoys to the same degree as Mussorgsky, Faure, Bruckner, Rachmaninoff, Puccini, Palestrina, Gluck, Josquin, Gesualdo, and a dozen or so others.

Among the Modern/Contemporary composers I far prefer Stravinsky, Richard Strauss, Mahler, Berg, Prokofiev, Shostakovitch, Mieczysław Weinberg, Bartok, Henri Dutilleux, Toru Takemitsu, Jean Sibelius, Carl Nielsen, Osvaldo Golijov, Ned Rorem, Tristan Murail, Joseph Schwantner, Krzysztof Penderecki, and quite likely at least half-a-dozen others.


----------



## Conor71

10 Bruckner
9 Villa-Lobos
8 Vaughan Williams
7 Messiaen
6 Faure
5 Rachmaninov
4 Nielsen
3 Elgar
2 Vivaldi
1 Byrd


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Fauré +10
2. Rachmaninoff +9
3. Rimsky-Korsakov +8
4. Berlioz +7
5. Vivaldi +6
6. Bruckner +5
7. Gluck +4
8. Puccini +3
9. Britten +2
10. J.C. Bach +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Saint-Saëns · 10
Satie · 9
Vivaldi · 8
Respighi · 7
Rossini · 6
Telemann · 5
Rott · 4
Wolf · 3
von der Vogelweide · 2
Elgar · 1


Suleiman Singh · -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

*Note: Composers only need to reach 400 points to be enshrined.*

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi - 392
27. Berlioz - 334
28. Bruckner - 307
29. Fauré - 269
30. Schoenberg - 267
31. Saint-Saëns - 266
32. Rachmaninoff - 256
33. Mussorgsky - 245
34. Messiaen - 244
35. Vaughan Williams - 240
36. Elgar - 221
37. Puccini - 201
38. Nielsen - 195
39. Ligeti - 192
40. Scriabin - 169
41. Grieg - 158
42. Janáček - 153
42. Scarlatti, Domenico - 153
44. Bach, J.C. - 152
45. Berg - 151
46. Palestrina - 150
47. Villa-Lobos - 143
48. Webern - 135
49. Barber - 129
50. Rossini - 124
51. Gluck - 122
52. Josquin - 113
53. Rimsky-Korsakov - 106
53. Satie - 106
55. Purcell - 100
56. Rameau - 92
57. Varèse - 91
58. Alfven - 88
59. Bizet - 87
60. Glass - 85
61. Gesualdo - 84
62. Schnittke - 79
63. Adams - 74
63. Bach, C.P.E. - 74
65. Arnold - 73
66. Britten - 72
67. Reich - 66
68. Lully - 58
68. Pärt - 58
70. Rott - 55
71. Telemann - 53
72. Copland - 50
73. Ives - 49
74. Donizetti - 48
75. Hildegard - 46
76. Medtner - 44
77. Penderecki - 41
78. Corelli - 40
78. Hindemith - 40
78. Respighi - 40
81. Bellini - 38
82. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 36
83. Novak - 35
83. Weber - 35
85. Albeniz - 33
86. Gershwin - 31
87. Borodin - 30
87. Haydn, Michael - 30
87. Stockhausen - 30
90. Glazunov - 29
91. Hummel - 28
92. Strauss II, Johann - 27
93. Schumann, Clara - 25
94. Enescu - 24
95. Machaut - 23
95. Zelenka - 23
97. Tallis - 22
98. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 21
98. Wolf - 21
100. Vogelweide - 20
101. Spohr - 19
102. Rodrigo - 18
102. Tveitt - 18
104. Biber - 17
104. Delius - 17
104. Dowland - 17
104. Xenakis - 17
108. Glinka - 16
108. Gombert - 16
108. Gorecki - 16
108. Lutoslawski - 16
108. Takemitsu - 16
113. MacDowell - 15
113. Martinu - 15
115. Alkan - 14
115. Byrd - 14
115. Paganini - 14
118. Berio - 13
118. Harbison - 13
118. Holst - 13
118. Smetana - 13
122. Brian - 12
122. Lalo - 12
122. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
126. Bernstein - 10
126. Rudland - 10
128. Clementi - 9
128. Crumb - 9
128. Golijov - 9
131. Beach - 8
131. Charpentier - 8
131. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Schreker - 4
146. Carter - 3
146. Simpson - 3
146. Skalkottas - 3
146. Zemlinsky - 3
150. Allegri - 2
150. Brouwer - 2
150. Cherubini - 2
150. Danzi - 2
150. Poulenc - 2
155. Gubaidulina - 1
155. Krenek - 1
155. Meyerbeer - 1
155. Monti - 1
159. Tower - -1
160. Czerny - -3
161. Cage - -6
162. Schobert - -20


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar 10
Saint-Saens 9
Purcell 8
Vivaldi 7
Berlioz 6
Puccini 5
RVW 4
Bruckner 3
Barber 2
Faure 1
Schoenberg -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

pjang23 said:


> Current Standings: *Note: Composers only need to reach 400 points to be enshrined.*


 This is a good idea. It might be worth considering dropping the cut-off even further, progressively by say 50 per 5 ranks, once we get to position No 35 in the ranks. By rank No 35 and beyond, I would guess that preferences among the remaining members who are still voting might be so diverse that a lower cut-off will be required in order to brings thing to a reasonably speedy conclusion up to rank No 50, after which I assume voting will cease. So it would be a cut-off of 350 for ranks 36-40; 300 for ranks 41-45; 250 for ranks 46-50. Just an idea.


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> This is a good idea. It might be worth considering dropping the cut-off even further, progressively by say 50 per 5 ranks, once we get to position No 35 in the ranks. By rank No 35 and beyond, I would guess that preferences among the remaining members who are still voting might be so diverse that a lower cut-off will be required in order to brings thing to a reasonably speedy conclusion up to rank No 50, after which I assume voting will cease. So it would be a cut-off of 350 for ranks 36-40; 300 for ranks 41-45; 250 for ranks 46-50. Just an idea.


Yeah, I'll consider further adjustments down the line if the 400 cut-off becomes too high relative to the remaining scores. No sense in watching someone with a huge lead spend a few extra days just to reach the cut-off (we'd need another whole day of votes to enshrine Vivaldi if we kept it at 450).


----------



## Vesteralen

10 pts - Elgar
9 pts - Nielsen
8 pts - Alfven
7 pts - Arnold
6 pts - Barber
5 pts - Novak
4 pts - Saint Saens
3 pts - Machaut
2 pts - Vaughan Williams
1 pts - Massenet


----------



## science

10 Faure
9 Zelenka
8 Rachmaninoff
7 Elgar
6 Gluck 
5 Scarlatti D
4 Albeniz
3 Strauss J II
2 Janacek
1 Vivaldi 
-3 Alfven


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Schoenberg
7 Copland
6 Ives
5 Palestrina
4 Berg
3 Webern
2 Borodin
1 Tallis

-3 Saint-Saens


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

von der Vogelweide

Interesting choice. Interesting character.


----------



## mmsbls

10. Bruckner
9.	Vivaldi
8.	Saint-Saens
7.	Vaughan Williams
6.	Faure
5.	JC Bach
4.	Berlioz
3.	Rimsky-Korsakov
2.	Elgar
1.	Puccini

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Berlioz
9 - Bizet
8 - D. Scarlatti
7 - C.P.E. Bach
6 - Grieg
5 - Rossini
4 - Satie
3 - Lully
2 - Poulenc
1 - Puccini


----------



## Very Senior Member

I believe that Vivaldi is "in", having reached 400 after "science" voted.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Schoenberg
9. Berg
8. Webern
7. RVW
6. Elgar
5. Satie
4. Gesualdo

-3 Faure


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Scarlatti
8 Grieg
7 Purcell
6 Josquin
5 Rimsky-Korsakov
4 Puccini
3 Weber
2 Barber
1 Gluck
-3 Ligeti

Current Standings: Vivaldi is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz - 354
28. Bruckner - 320
29. Saint-Saëns - 284
30. Fauré - 283
31. Schoenberg - 279
32. Vaughan Williams - 270
33. Rachmaninoff - 264
34. Elgar - 256
35. Mussorgsky - 245
36. Messiaen - 244
37. Puccini - 212
38. Nielsen - 204
39. Ligeti - 189
40. Scarlatti, Domenico - 175
41. Grieg - 172
42. Scriabin - 169
43. Palestrina - 165
44. Berg - 164
45. Bach, J.C. - 157
46. Janáček - 155
47. Webern - 146
48. Villa-Lobos - 143
49. Barber - 139
50. Gluck - 129
50. Rossini - 129
52. Josquin - 128
53. Purcell - 115
53. Satie - 115
55. Rimsky-Korsakov - 114
56. Bizet - 96
57. Alfven - 93
58. Rameau - 92
59. Varèse - 91
60. Gesualdo - 88
61. Glass - 85
62. Bach, C.P.E. - 81
63. Arnold - 80
64. Schnittke - 79
65. Adams - 74
66. Britten - 72
67. Reich - 66
68. Lully - 61
69. Pärt - 58
70. Copland - 57
71. Ives - 55
71. Rott - 55
73. Telemann - 53
74. Donizetti - 48
75. Hildegard - 46
76. Medtner - 44
77. Penderecki - 41
78. Corelli - 40
78. Hindemith - 40
78. Novak - 40
78. Respighi - 40
82. Bellini - 38
82. Weber - 38
84. Albeniz - 37
85. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 36
86. Borodin - 32
86. Zelenka - 32
88. Gershwin - 31
89. Haydn, Michael - 30
89. Stockhausen - 30
89. Strauss II, Johann - 30
92. Glazunov - 29
93. Hummel - 28
94. Machaut - 26
95. Schumann, Clara - 25
96. Enescu - 24
97. Tallis - 23
98. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 21
98. Wolf - 21
100. Vogelweide - 20
101. Spohr - 19
102. Rodrigo - 18
102. Tveitt - 18
104. Biber - 17
104. Delius - 17
104. Dowland - 17
104. Xenakis - 17
108. Glinka - 16
108. Gombert - 16
108. Gorecki - 16
108. Lutoslawski - 16
108. Takemitsu - 16
113. MacDowell - 15
113. Martinu - 15
115. Alkan - 14
115. Byrd - 14
115. Paganini - 14
118. Berio - 13
118. Harbison - 13
118. Holst - 13
118. Smetana - 13
122. Brian - 12
122. Lalo - 12
122. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
126. Bernstein - 10
126. Rudland - 10
128. Clementi - 9
128. Crumb - 9
128. Golijov - 9
131. Beach - 8
131. Charpentier - 8
131. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Poulenc - 4
143. Schreker - 4
147. Carter - 3
147. Simpson - 3
147. Skalkottas - 3
147. Zemlinsky - 3
151. Allegri - 2
151. Brouwer - 2
151. Cherubini - 2
151. Danzi - 2
155. Gubaidulina - 1
155. Krenek - 1
155. Massanet - 1
155. Meyerbeer - 1
155. Monti - 1
160. Tower - -1
161. Czerny - -3
162. Cage - -6
163. Schobert - -20


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9
Schoenberg - 8
Berg - 7
Webern - 6
Hildegarde - 5
Ligeti - 4

Elgar -3

Just so everyone knows, I will be around very little for the next upcoming week. I will try to vote from my phone, but don't expect me to reply to too many comments


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Puccini = +10
Rachmaninoff = +9
Rameau = +8
CPE Bach = +7
Michael Haydn = +6
Spohr = +5
Alessandro Scarlatti = +4
Gluck = +3
Rossini = +2
Hummel = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Purcell
8. Rameau
7. D Scarlatti
6. Lully
5. Gluck
4. Dowland
3. Albeniz
2. Copland
1. Josquin


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Berlioz
9. Saint-Saens
8. Rossini
7. Faure
6. Barber
5. Messiaen
4. Purcell
3. Rameau
2. Janacek
1. Adams


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Ippolitov-Ivanov
9. Berlioz
8. Bruckner
7. Saint-Saëns 
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Mussorgsky
4. Glazunov
3. Johann Strauss II
2. Glinka
+ 1. Rimsky-Korsakov 

- 3 Schoenberg


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Berlioz +10
2. Gluck +9
3. Britten +8
4. Rachmaninoff +7
5. Fauré +6
6. J.C. Bach +5
7. Johann Strauss II +4
8. Rimsky-Korsakov +3
9. Puccini +2
10. Gesualdo +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## Air

10. Messiaen
9. Varèse
8. Ligeti
7. Rameau
6. Telemann
5. D. Scarlatti
4. Weber
3. Ives
2. Villa-Lobos
1. Medtner

-3. Saint-Saëns


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Saint-Saëns · 10
Satie · 9
Rossini · 8
Purcell · 7
Telemann · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Holst · 2
Elgar · 1

Benny Quick · -3


----------



## science

10 Schoenberg
9 Saint-Saens
8 Elgar
7 Faure 
6 Mussorgsky 
5 Bellini 
4 Zelenka 
3 Scarlatti D
2 Lalo
1 Strauss, J II 
-3 Vaughan Williams


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz - 383
28. Bruckner - 328
29. Saint-Saëns - 316
30. Fauré - 303
31. Schoenberg - 288
32. Rachmaninoff - 286
33. Messiaen - 269
34. Vaughan Williams - 267
35. Mussorgsky - 265
36. Elgar - 262
37. Puccini - 224
38. Nielsen - 204
39. Ligeti - 201
40. Scarlatti, Domenico - 190
41. Grieg - 172
42. Berg - 171
43. Scriabin - 169
44. Palestrina - 165
45. Bach, J.C. - 162
46. Janáček - 157
47. Villa-Lobos - 155
48. Webern - 152
49. Rossini - 147
50. Gluck - 146
51. Barber - 145
52. Purcell - 135
53. Josquin - 129
54. Satie - 124
55. Rameau - 118
55. Rimsky-Korsakov - 118
57. Varèse - 100
58. Bizet - 96
59. Alfven - 93
60. Gesualdo - 89
61. Bach, C.P.E. - 88
62. Glass - 85
63. Arnold - 80
63. Britten - 80
65. Schnittke - 79
66. Adams - 75
67. Lully - 67
68. Reich - 66
69. Telemann - 65
70. Rott - 60
71. Copland - 59
72. Ives - 58
72. Pärt - 58
74. Hildegard - 51
75. Donizetti - 48
76. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 46
77. Medtner - 45
78. Bellini - 43
79. Weber - 42
80. Penderecki - 41
81. Albeniz - 40
81. Corelli - 40
81. Hindemith - 40
81. Novak - 40
81. Respighi - 40
86. Strauss II, Johann - 38
87. Haydn, Michael - 36
87. Zelenka - 36
89. Glazunov - 33
90. Borodin - 32
91. Gershwin - 31
92. Stockhausen - 30
93. Hummel - 29
94. Machaut - 26
95. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
95. Schumann, Clara - 25
95. Wolf - 25
98. Enescu - 24
98. Spohr - 24
100. Tallis - 23
100. Vogelweide - 23
102. Dowland - 21
103. Glinka - 18
103. Rodrigo - 18
103. Tveitt - 18
106. Biber - 17
106. Delius - 17
106. Xenakis - 17
109. Gombert - 16
109. Gorecki - 16
109. Lutoslawski - 16
109. Takemitsu - 16
113. Holst - 15
113. MacDowell - 15
113. Martinu - 15
116. Alkan - 14
116. Byrd - 14
116. Lalo - 14
116. Paganini - 14
120. Berio - 13
120. Harbison - 13
120. Smetana - 13
123. Brian - 12
123. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
126. Bernstein - 10
126. Rudland - 10
128. Clementi - 9
128. Crumb - 9
128. Golijov - 9
131. Beach - 8
131. Charpentier - 8
131. Zimmerman - 8
134. Alwyn - 7
134. Locatelli - 7
134. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Boulez - 6
137. Wohlfahrt - 6
139. Eberl - 5
139. Hartmann - 5
139. Sorabji - 5
139. Veress - 5
143. Ferneyhough - 4
143. Henze - 4
143. Poulenc - 4
143. Schreker - 4
147. Carter - 3
147. Simpson - 3
147. Skalkottas - 3
147. Zemlinsky - 3
151. Allegri - 2
151. Brouwer - 2
151. Cherubini - 2
151. Danzi - 2
155. Gubaidulina - 1
155. Krenek - 1
155. Massanet - 1
155. Meyerbeer - 1
155. Monti - 1
160. Tower - -1
161. Czerny - -3
162. Cage - -6
163. Schobert - -20


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar 10
Purcell 9
Saint-Saens 8
Berlioz 7
Puccini 6
RVW 5
Barber 4
Britten 3
Weber 2
Rameau 1
Schoenberg -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - Berlioz
8 - D. Scarlatti
7 - Poulenc
6 - Hummel
5 - C.P.E. Bach
4 - Lully
3 - Glass
2 - Satie
1 - Adams


----------



## StevenOBrien

Sorry, double post.


----------



## Vesteralen

10 pts Elgar
9 pts Nielsen
8 pts Vaughan Williams
7 pts J C Bach
6 pts Alfven
5 pts Arnold
4 pts Novak
3 pts Machaut
2 pts Harbison
1 pt Alwyn


----------



## mmsbls

10. Bruckner
9.	Saint-Saens
8.	Vaughan Williams
7.	Faure
6.	JC Bach
5.	Berlioz
4.	Rimsky-Korsakov
3.	Elgar
2.	Puccini
1.	Palestrina

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## Klavierspieler

10 Janacek
9 Britten
8 Medtner
7 Elgar
6 Vaughan Williams
5 Machaut
4 Gesualdo
3 Berg
2 Webern
1 Byrd

-3 Bruckner


----------



## Conor71

10 Bruckner
9 Vaughan Williams
8 Faure
7 Elgar
6 Byrd
5 Nielsen
4 Villa-Lobos
3 Britten
2 Machaut
1 Puccini


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Grieg
8 Josquin
7 Purcell
6 Scarlatti
5 Rimsky-Korsakov
4 Barber
3 Gluck
2 Berg
1 Weber
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Berlioz is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner - 338
29. Saint-Saëns - 333
30. Fauré - 310
31. Vaughan Williams - 288
32. Rachmaninoff - 286
33. Elgar - 285
34. Schoenberg - 282
35. Messiaen - 269
36. Mussorgsky - 265
37. Puccini - 232
38. Nielsen - 213
39. Scarlatti, Domenico - 204
40. Ligeti - 201
41. Grieg - 181
42. Palestrina - 176
43. Bach, J.C. - 175
44. Berg - 173
45. Scriabin - 169
46. Janáček - 157
47. Villa-Lobos - 155
48. Barber - 153
49. Webern - 152
50. Purcell - 151
51. Gluck - 149
52. Rossini - 147
53. Josquin - 137
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 127
55. Satie - 126
56. Rameau - 119
57. Bizet - 106
58. Varèse - 100
59. Alfven - 99
60. Bach, C.P.E. - 93
61. Gesualdo - 89
62. Glass - 88
63. Arnold - 85
64. Britten - 83
65. Schnittke - 79
66. Adams - 76
67. Lully - 71
68. Reich - 66
69. Telemann - 65
70. Rott - 60
71. Copland - 59
72. Ives - 58
72. Pärt - 58
74. Hildegard - 51
75. Donizetti - 48
76. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 46
77. Medtner - 45
77. Weber - 45
79. Novak - 44
80. Bellini - 43
81. Penderecki - 41
82. Albeniz - 40
82. Corelli - 40
82. Hindemith - 40
82. Respighi - 40
86. Strauss II, Johann - 38
87. Haydn, Michael - 36
87. Zelenka - 36
89. Hummel - 35
90. Glazunov - 33
91. Borodin - 32
92. Gershwin - 31
93. Stockhausen - 30
94. Machaut - 29
95. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
95. Schumann, Clara - 25
95. Wolf - 25
98. Enescu - 24
98. Spohr - 24
100. Tallis - 23
100. Vogelweide - 23
102. Dowland - 21
103. Glinka - 18
103. Rodrigo - 18
103. Tveitt - 18
106. Biber - 17
106. Delius - 17
106. Xenakis - 17
109. Gombert - 16
109. Gorecki - 16
109. Lutoslawski - 16
109. Takemitsu - 16
113. Harbison - 15
113. Holst - 15
113. MacDowell - 15
113. Martinu - 15
117. Alkan - 14
117. Byrd - 14
117. Lalo - 14
117. Paganini - 14
121. Berio - 13
121. Smetana - 13
123. Brian - 12
123. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
125. Poulenc - 11
127. Bernstein - 10
127. Rudland - 10
129. Clementi - 9
129. Crumb - 9
129. Golijov - 9
132. Alwyn - 8
132. Beach - 8
132. Charpentier - 8
132. Zimmerman - 8
136. Locatelli - 7
136. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
138. Boulez - 6
138. Wohlfahrt - 6
140. Eberl - 5
140. Hartmann - 5
140. Sorabji - 5
140. Veress - 5
144. Ferneyhough - 4
144. Henze - 4
144. Schreker - 4
147. Carter - 3
147. Simpson - 3
147. Skalkottas - 3
147. Zemlinsky - 3
151. Allegri - 2
151. Brouwer - 2
151. Cherubini - 2
151. Danzi - 2
155. Gubaidulina - 1
155. Krenek - 1
155. Massanet - 1
155. Meyerbeer - 1
155. Monti - 1
160. Tower - -1
161. Czerny - -3
162. Cage - -9
163. Schobert - -20


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 RVW
6 Ligeti
5 Scriabin
4 Elgar


----------



## Cygnenoir

Bruckner - 10
Ligeti - 9
Grieg - 8
Reich - 7
Adams - 6
Messiaen - 5
Penderecki - 4
Brian - 3
Pärt - 2
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

JC Bach = +10
Puccini = +9
Domenico Scarlatti = +8
Micharl Haydn = +7
CPE Bach = +6
Donizetti = +5
Bellini = +4
Lully = +3
Telemann = +2
Spohr = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Saint-Saens
9 Rossini
8 Barber
7 Messiaen
6 Faure
5 Rameau
4 Adams
3 Purcell
2 Britten
1 Glass


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen 10
Schoenberg 9
Webern 8
Berg 7
Hildegarde 6
Mussorgsky 5
Ligeti 4
Stockhausen 3
Varese 2
Boulez 1

Gershwin -3


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Copland
7 Webern
6 Palestrina
5 Borodin
4 Purcell
3 Rimsky-Korsakov
2 Bruckner
1 Britten

-3 JC Bach


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Purcell
8. Gluck
7. Janacek
6. Ives
5. Schnittke
4. D Scarlatti
3. Copland
2. Rameau
1. Lully


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Saint-Saëns · 10
Satie · 9
Purcell · 8
Rossini · 7
Respighi · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Elgar · 2
Holst · 1

Royndolph von Hagen · -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar	+10	
Purcell	+9	
Bax	+8	
C.P.E. Bach	+7	
Walton	+6	
Holst	+5	
Britten	+4	
Delius	+3	
Barber	+2	
RVW	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I almost think we should have been allotted a single negative 10 point vote each round as a means of countering the eccentric vote of the individual set on raising a given composer beyond all reason.

1. Gluck +10
2. Britten +9
3. Johann Strauss +8 (Just picked up a couple of his operettas today )
4. Rachmaninoff +7
5. Fauré +6
6. Puccini +5
7. Bellini +4
8. Donizetti +3
9. Gesualdo +2
10. J.C. Bach +1

Messiaen -3

Does everyone else "really" think Messiaen is greater among the Modern/Contemporary composers than Berg, Rachmaninoff, Nielsen, Ligeti, Britten, Janáček, Penderecki, etc...? Just asking.


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Saint-Saëns - 353
29. Bruckner - 350
30. Fauré - 322
31. Vaughan Williams - 306
32. Elgar - 301
33. Schoenberg - 296
34. Rachmaninoff - 293
35. Messiaen - 288
36. Mussorgsky - 270
37. Puccini - 246
38. Ligeti - 220
39. Scarlatti, Domenico - 216
40. Nielsen - 213
41. Berg - 189
41. Grieg - 189
43. Purcell - 184
44. Bach, J.C. - 183
45. Palestrina - 182
46. Webern - 175
47. Scriabin - 174
48. Gluck - 167
49. Villa-Lobos - 165
50. Janáček - 164
51. Barber - 163
51. Rossini - 163
53. Josquin - 146
54. Satie - 135
55. Rimsky-Korsakov - 130
56. Rameau - 126
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 106
57. Bizet - 106
59. Varèse - 102
60. Alfven - 99
60. Britten - 99
62. Gesualdo - 91
63. Glass - 89
64. Adams - 86
65. Arnold - 85
66. Schnittke - 84
67. Lully - 75
68. Reich - 73
69. Copland - 70
70. Telemann - 67
71. Rott - 65
72. Ives - 64
73. Pärt - 60
74. Hildegard - 57
75. Donizetti - 56
76. Bellini - 51
77. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 46
77. Respighi - 46
77. Strauss II, Johann - 46
80. Medtner - 45
80. Penderecki - 45
80. Weber - 45
83. Novak - 44
84. Haydn, Michael - 43
85. Albeniz - 40
85. Corelli - 40
85. Hindemith - 40
88. Borodin - 37
89. Zelenka - 36
90. Hummel - 35
91. Glazunov - 33
91. Stockhausen - 33
93. Machaut - 29
93. Wolf - 29
95. Gershwin - 28
96. Vogelweide - 26
97. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
97. Schumann, Clara - 25
97. Spohr - 25
100. Enescu - 24
101. Tallis - 23
102. Dowland - 21
102. Holst - 21
104. Delius - 20
105. Glinka - 18
105. Rodrigo - 18
105. Tveitt - 18
108. Biber - 17
108. Xenakis - 17
110. Gombert - 16
110. Gorecki - 16
110. Lutoslawski - 16
110. Takemitsu - 16
114. Brian - 15
114. Harbison - 15
114. MacDowell - 15
114. Martinu - 15
118. Alkan - 14
118. Byrd - 14
118. Lalo - 14
118. Paganini - 14
122. Berio - 13
122. Smetana - 13
124. Offenbach - 12
125. Liefs - 11
125. Poulenc - 11
127. Bernstein - 10
127. Rudland - 10
129. Clementi - 9
129. Crumb - 9
129. Golijov - 9
132. Alwyn - 8
132. Bax - 8
132. Beach - 8
132. Charpentier - 8
132. Zimmerman - 8
137. Boulez - 7
137. Locatelli - 7
137. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
140. Walton - 6
140. Wohlfahrt - 6
142. Eberl - 5
142. Hartmann - 5
142. Sorabji - 5
142. Veress - 5
146. Ferneyhough - 4
146. Henze - 4
146. Schreker - 4
149. Carter - 3
149. Simpson - 3
149. Skalkottas - 3
149. Zemlinsky - 3
153. Allegri - 2
153. Brouwer - 2
153. Cherubini - 2
153. Danzi - 2
157. Gubaidulina - 1
157. Krenek - 1
157. Massanet - 1
157. Meyerbeer - 1
157. Monti - 1
162. Tower - -1
163. Czerny - -3
164. Cage - -9
165. Schobert - -20


----------



## Very Senior Member

I thought I would draw attention to the following composers who surprisingly don’t appear on the list: Boccherini, Buxtehude, Couperin, Falla, Franck, Gabrieli, Victoria.


----------



## science

10 Elgar
9 Schoenberg
8 Faure 
7 Delius
6 Tallis
5 Biber
4 Enescu
3 Dowland
2 Zelenka
1 Hummel 
-3 Vaughan Williams


----------



## crmoorhead

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I almost think we should have been allotted a single negative 10 point vote each round as a means of countering the eccentric vote of the individual set on raising a given composer beyond all reason.
> 
> 1. Gluck +10
> 2. Britten +9
> 3. Johann Strauss +8 (Just picked up a couple of his operettas today )
> 4. Rachmaninoff +7
> 5. Fauré +6
> 6. Puccini +5
> 7. Bellini +4
> 8. Donizetti +3
> 9. Gesualdo +2
> 10. J.C. Bach +1
> 
> Messiaen -3
> 
> Does everyone else "really" think Messiaen is greater among the Modern/Contemporary composers than Berg, Rachmaninoff, Nielsen, Ligeti, Britten, Janáček, Penderecki, etc...? Just asking.


Messiaen has still a long way to go before he is voted in. 116 pts is quite a few days voting, even from multiple participants. I myself would place him somewhere in the 40-60 range. If you do the maths, quite a few composers who are currently behind him will end up ahead. Of the composers you name, Rachmaninoff has already passed him. IMO, Nielsen will too. Britten should be higher up, I agree, and Janacek, but also bear in mind that, if people are not voting for composers then there is clearly not a consensus on how they are regarded or how much people listen to their works. There is no definitive answer here. You might also want to check out the progress of Saint-Saens, who has gained 310 pts in 10 days when compared to Messiaen's 110. Purcell, Puccini and Elgar have also gained comparatively rapidly, as have others.


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Ippolitov-Ivanov
9. Smetana
8. Bruckner
7. Saint-Saëns 
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Mussorgsky
4. Glazunov
3. Johann Strauss II
2. Glinka
+ 1. Rimsky-Korsakov

- 3 *Ligeti* :lol:


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Vaughan Williams - 9
Elgar - 8
JC Bach - 7
Arnold - 6
Saint Saens - 5
Novak - 4
Alwyn - 3
Machaut - 2
Bruckner - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10. Bruckner
9.	Saint-Saens
8.	Vaughan Williams
7.	Faure
6.	JC Bach
5.	Rimsky-Korsakov
4.	Elgar
3.	Puccini
2.	Palestrina
1.	Grieg

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Josquin
8 Weber
7 Rimsky-Korsakov
6 Grieg
5 Purcell
4 Scarlatti
3 Puccini
2 Barber
1 Part
-3 Ligeti


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Schoenberg
9. RVW
8. Berg
7. Webern
6. Ligeti
5. Janacek
4. Varese
3. Britten

-3 Elgar


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - D. Scarlatti
8 - Grieg
7 - Ivan Wyschnegradsky
6 - C.P.E. Bach
5 - Lully
4 - Glass
3 - Poulenc
2 - Hummel
1 - Scriabin


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

JC Bach = +10
CPE Bach = +9
Puccini = +8
Michael Haydn = +7
Hummel = +6
Muzio Clementi = +5
Luigi Boccherini = +4
Buxtehude = +3
Schütz = +2
François Couperin = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Saint-Saëns - 374
29. Bruckner - 369
30. Fauré - 337
31. Vaughan Williams - 329
32. Elgar - 320
33. Schoenberg - 309
34. Rachmaninoff - 299
35. Messiaen - 288
36. Mussorgsky - 275
37. Puccini - 260
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 229
39. Nielsen - 223
40. Ligeti - 220
41. Bach, J.C. - 206
42. Grieg - 204
43. Berg - 197
44. Palestrina - 194
45. Purcell - 189
46. Webern - 182
47. Scriabin - 175
48. Janáček - 169
49. Gluck - 167
50. Barber - 165
50. Villa-Lobos - 165
52. Rossini - 163
53. Josquin - 155
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 143
55. Satie - 135
56. Rameau - 126
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 121
58. Bizet - 116
59. Varèse - 106
60. Britten - 102
61. Alfven - 99
62. Glass - 93
63. Arnold - 91
63. Gesualdo - 91
65. Adams - 86
66. Schnittke - 84
67. Lully - 80
68. Reich - 73
69. Copland - 70
70. Telemann - 67
71. Rott - 65
72. Ives - 64
73. Pärt - 61
74. Hildegard - 57
75. Donizetti - 56
75. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 56
77. Weber - 53
78. Bellini - 51
79. Haydn, Michael - 50
80. Strauss II, Johann - 49
81. Novak - 48
82. Respighi - 46
83. Medtner - 45
83. Penderecki - 45
85. Hummel - 44
86. Albeniz - 40
86. Corelli - 40
86. Hindemith - 40
89. Zelenka - 38
90. Borodin - 37
90. Glazunov - 37
92. Stockhausen - 33
93. Machaut - 31
94. Tallis - 29
94. Wolf - 29
96. Enescu - 28
96. Gershwin - 28
98. Delius - 27
99. Vogelweide - 26
100. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
100. Schumann, Clara - 25
100. Spohr - 25
103. Dowland - 24
104. Biber - 22
104. Smetana - 22
106. Holst - 21
107. Glinka - 20
108. Rodrigo - 18
108. Tveitt - 18
110. Xenakis - 17
111. Gombert - 16
111. Gorecki - 16
111. Lutoslawski - 16
111. Takemitsu - 16
115. Brian - 15
115. Harbison - 15
115. MacDowell - 15
115. Martinu - 15
119. Alkan - 14
119. Byrd - 14
119. Clementi - 14
119. Lalo - 14
119. Paganini - 14
119. Poulenc - 14
125. Berio - 13
126. Offenbach - 12
127. Alwyn - 11
127. Liefs - 11
129. Bernstein - 10
129. Rudland - 10
131. Crumb - 9
131. Golijov - 9
133. Bax - 8
133. Beach - 8
133. Charpentier - 8
133. Zimmerman - 8
137. Boulez - 7
137. Locatelli - 7
137. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
137. Wyschnegradsky - 7
141. Walton - 6
141. Wohlfahrt - 6
143. Eberl - 5
143. Hartmann - 5
143. Sorabji - 5
143. Veress - 5
147. Boccherini - 4
147. Ferneyhough - 4
147. Henze - 4
147. Schreker - 4
151. Buxtehude - 3
151. Carter - 3
151. Simpson - 3
151. Skalkottas - 3
151. Zemlinsky - 3
156. Allegri - 2
156. Brouwer - 2
156. Cherubini - 2
156. Danzi - 2
156. Schütz - 2
161. Couperin - 1
161. Gubaidulina - 1
161. Krenek - 1
161. Massanet - 1
161. Meyerbeer - 1
161. Monti - 1
167. Tower - -1
168. Czerny - -3
169. Cage - -9
170. Schobert - -20


----------



## Air

10. Varèse
9. Messiaen
8. Ligeti
7. Rameau
6. Telemann
5. Weber
4. Ives
3. Victoria
2. Villa-Lobos
1. Medtner

-3. Saint-Saëns


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Saint-Saens
9. Rossini
8. Faure
7. Barber
6. Britten
5. Purcell
4. Adams
3. Rameau
2. Glass
1. Elgar


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Ivan Wyschnegradsky

Who?!


----------



## StevenOBrien

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Ivan Wyschnegradsky
> 
> Who?!


Well feel free to -3 him to oblivion if you disagree, but I think he at least deserves to be on the extended list.

He wrote some very beautiful microtonal music:


----------



## science

10 Elgar
9 Faure
8 Schoenberg
7 Boccherini
6 Cage
5 Franck
4 Victoria
3 Falla 
2 Couperin
1 Buxtehude 
-3 Vaughan Williams


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Purcell
6. Britten
5. Schnittke
4. Gluck
3. Falla
2. Buxtehude
1. Walton


----------



## Trout

10 Bruckner
9 Vaughan Williams
8 Josquin
7 Copland
6 Palestrina
5 Schoenberg
4 Grieg
3 Borodin
2 Ives
1 Rimsky-Korsakov

-3 Saint-Saens


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Mussorgsky
9. Glazunov
8. Bruckner
7. Saint-Saëns 
6. Rachmaninoff
5. Ippolitov-Ivanov
4. Johann Strauss II
3. Smetana
2. Glinka
+ 1. Rimsky-Korsakov 

- 3 Schoenberg


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Rachmaninoff +10
2. Gluck +9
3. Fauré +8
4. Britten +7
5. Rameau +6
6. Bellini +5
7. Donizetti +4
8. Puccini +3
9. Bruckner +2
10. J.C. Bach +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner - 389
29. Saint-Saëns - 385
30. Fauré - 362
31. Vaughan Williams - 335
32. Elgar - 331
33. Schoenberg - 316
34. Rachmaninoff - 315
35. Messiaen - 297
36. Mussorgsky - 285
37. Puccini - 263
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 237
39. Ligeti - 228
40. Nielsen - 223
41. Grieg - 208
42. Bach, J.C. - 207
43. Purcell - 201
44. Palestrina - 200
45. Berg - 197
46. Webern - 182
47. Gluck - 180
48. Janáček - 178
49. Villa-Lobos - 177
50. Scriabin - 175
51. Barber - 172
51. Rossini - 172
53. Josquin - 163
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 145
55. Rameau - 142
56. Satie - 135
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 121
57. Britten - 121
59. Bizet - 116
59. Varèse - 116
61. Alfven - 99
62. Glass - 95
63. Arnold - 91
63. Gesualdo - 91
65. Adams - 90
66. Schnittke - 89
67. Lully - 80
68. Copland - 77
69. Reich - 73
69. Telemann - 73
71. Ives - 70
72. Rott - 65
73. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 61
73. Pärt - 61
75. Donizetti - 60
76. Weber - 58
77. Hildegard - 57
78. Bellini - 56
79. Strauss II, Johann - 53
80. Haydn, Michael - 50
81. Novak - 48
82. Glazunov - 46
82. Medtner - 46
82. Respighi - 46
85. Penderecki - 45
86. Hummel - 44
87. Albeniz - 40
87. Borodin - 40
87. Corelli - 40
87. Hindemith - 40
91. Zelenka - 38
92. Stockhausen - 33
93. Machaut - 31
94. Tallis - 29
94. Wolf - 29
96. Enescu - 28
96. Gershwin - 28
98. Delius - 27
99. Vogelweide - 26
100. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
100. Schumann, Clara - 25
100. Smetana - 25
100. Spohr - 25
104. Dowland - 24
105. Biber - 22
105. Glinka - 22
107. Holst - 21
108. Rodrigo - 18
108. Tveitt - 18
110. Xenakis - 17
111. Gombert - 16
111. Gorecki - 16
111. Lutoslawski - 16
111. Takemitsu - 16
115. Brian - 15
115. Harbison - 15
115. MacDowell - 15
115. Martinu - 15
119. Alkan - 14
119. Byrd - 14
119. Clementi - 14
119. Lalo - 14
119. Paganini - 14
119. Poulenc - 14
125. Berio - 13
126. Offenbach - 12
127. Alwyn - 11
127. Boccherini - 11
127. Liefs - 11
130. Bernstein - 10
130. Rudland - 10
132. Crumb - 9
132. Golijov - 9
134. Bax - 8
134. Beach - 8
134. Charpentier - 8
134. Zimmerman - 8
138. Boulez - 7
138. Locatelli - 7
138. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
138. Victoria - 7
138. Walton - 7
138. Wyschnegradsky - 7
144. Buxtehude - 6
144. Falla - 6
144. Wohlfahrt - 6
147. Eberl - 5
147. Franck - 5
147. Hartmann - 5
147. Sorabji - 5
147. Veress - 5
152. Ferneyhough - 4
152. Henze - 4
152. Schreker - 4
155. Carter - 3
155. Couperin - 3
155. Simpson - 3
155. Skalkottas - 3
155. Zemlinsky - 3
160. Allegri - 2
160. Brouwer - 2
160. Cherubini - 2
160. Danzi - 2
160. Schütz - 2
165. Gubaidulina - 1
165. Krenek - 1
165. Massanet - 1
165. Meyerbeer - 1
165. Monti - 1
170. Tower - -1
171. Cage - -3
171. Czerny - -3
173. Schobert - -20


----------



## Very Senior Member

With the exception of Elgar, my selections today are designed to boost the votes of various composers I reckon are far too low down the ranks at present. I don’t necessarily prefer any of these to some of the composers who are at present higher. I’m merely attempting a bit of re-balancing.	

Elgar	+10	
Victoria	+9	
Boccherini	+8	
Walton	+7	
Couperin	+6	
Falla	+5	
Buxtehude	+4	
Delius	+3	
Gabrieli	+2	
Bax	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Elgar - 9
Arnold - 8
JC Bach - 7
Massenet - 6
Vaughan Williams - 5
Delius - 4
Novak - 3
Machaut - 2
Alwyn - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10. Bruckner
9.	Saint-Saens
8.	Vaughan Williams
7.	Faure
6.	JC Bach
5.	Rimsky-Korsakov
4.	Elgar
3.	Puccini
2.	Palestrina
1.	Grieg

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## crmoorhead

Elgar vs Vaughan Williams. Interesting.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 RVW
6 Janacek
5 Scriabin

-3 Elgar


----------



## Cygnenoir

Bruckner - 10
Ligeti - 9
Grieg - 8
Reich - 7
Adams - 6
Messiaen - 5
Penderecki - 4
Brian - 3
Pärt - 2
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Saint Saens
9 - Bizet
8 - Scarlatti
7 - Puccini
6 - C.P.E. Bach
5 - Grieg
4 - Scriabin
3 - Lully
2 - Poulenc
1 - Rossini


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Grieg
8 Puccini
7 Josquin
6 Rimsky-Korsakov
5 Purcell
4 Scarlatti
3 Barber
2 Part
1 Lully
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Bruckner and Saint-Saens are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Fauré - 369
31. Vaughan Williams - 355
32. Elgar - 351
33. Schoenberg - 321
34. Rachmaninoff - 315
35. Messiaen - 302
36. Mussorgsky - 285
37. Puccini - 281
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 249
39. Ligeti - 237
40. Nielsen - 233
41. Grieg - 231
42. Bach, J.C. - 220
43. Palestrina - 212
44. Berg - 206
44. Purcell - 206
46. Webern - 190
47. Janáček - 184
47. Scriabin - 184
49. Gluck - 180
50. Villa-Lobos - 177
51. Barber - 175
52. Rossini - 173
53. Josquin - 170
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 156
55. Rameau - 142
56. Satie - 135
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 127
58. Bizet - 125
59. Britten - 121
60. Varèse - 116
61. Alfven - 99
61. Arnold - 99
63. Adams - 96
64. Glass - 95
65. Gesualdo - 91
66. Schnittke - 89
67. Lully - 84
68. Reich - 80
69. Copland - 77
70. Telemann - 73
71. Ives - 70
72. Pärt - 65
72. Rott - 65
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 61
75. Donizetti - 60
76. Weber - 58
77. Hildegard - 57
78. Bellini - 56
79. Strauss II, Johann - 53
80. Novak - 51
81. Haydn, Michael - 50
82. Penderecki - 49
83. Glazunov - 46
83. Medtner - 46
83. Respighi - 46
86. Hummel - 44
87. Albeniz - 40
87. Borodin - 40
87. Corelli - 40
87. Hindemith - 40
91. Zelenka - 38
92. Delius - 34
93. Machaut - 33
93. Stockhausen - 33
95. Tallis - 29
95. Wolf - 29
97. Enescu - 28
97. Gershwin - 28
99. Vogelweide - 26
100. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
100. Schumann, Clara - 25
100. Smetana - 25
100. Spohr - 25
104. Dowland - 24
105. Biber - 22
105. Glinka - 22
107. Holst - 21
108. Boccherini - 19
109. Brian - 18
109. Rodrigo - 18
109. Tveitt - 18
112. Xenakis - 17
113. Gombert - 16
113. Gorecki - 16
113. Lutoslawski - 16
113. Poulenc - 16
113. Takemitsu - 16
113. Victoria - 16
119. Harbison - 15
119. MacDowell - 15
119. Martinu - 15
122. Alkan - 14
122. Byrd - 14
122. Clementi - 14
122. Lalo - 14
122. Paganini - 14
122. Walton - 14
128. Berio - 13
129. Alwyn - 12
129. Offenbach - 12
131. Falla - 11
131. Liefs - 11
133. Bernstein - 10
133. Buxtehude - 10
133. Rudland - 10
136. Bax - 9
136. Couperin - 9
136. Crumb - 9
136. Golijov - 9
140. Beach - 8
140. Charpentier - 8
140. Zimmerman - 8
143. Boulez - 7
143. Locatelli - 7
143. Massanet - 7
143. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
143. Wyschnegradsky - 7
148. Wohlfahrt - 6
149. Eberl - 5
149. Franck - 5
149. Hartmann - 5
149. Sorabji - 5
149. Veress - 5
154. Ferneyhough - 4
154. Henze - 4
154. Schreker - 4
157. Carter - 3
157. Simpson - 3
157. Skalkottas - 3
157. Zemlinsky - 3
161. Allegri - 2
161. Brouwer - 2
161. Cherubini - 2
161. Danzi - 2
161. Gabrieli - 2
161. Schütz - 2
167. Gubaidulina - 1
167. Krenek - 1
167. Meyerbeer - 1
167. Monti - 1
171. Tower - -1
172. Czerny - -3
173. Cage - -6
174. Schobert - -20


----------



## crmoorhead

Bruckner and Saint-Saens now voted in, I notice. 

EDIT: Tally appeared while I was posting this!


----------



## DeepR

Rachmaninoff: 10
Scriabin: 9
Mussorgsky: 8
Grieg: 7
D. Scarlatti: 6

Schoenberg: -3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Rachmaninoff = +10
Puccini = +9
Michael Haydn = +8
JC Bach = +7
CPE Bach = +6
Rameau = +5
Boccherini = +4
Gluck = +3
Domenico Scarlatti = +2
Spohr = +1

Schoenberg = - 3,000,000


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts RVW
9 Nielsen
8 Barber
7 Weber, von
6. Messiaen
5. Britten
4. Adams
3. Glass
2. Gershwin
1. Rameau


----------



## science

10 Elgar
9 Boccherini
8 Franck 
7 Faure
6 Schoenberg
5 Franck
4 Falla 
3 Cage
2 Buxtehude 
1 Victoria
-3 Vaughan Williams


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Vivaldi · 9
Purcell · 8
Respighi · 7
Rossini · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Elgar · 2
Holst · 1

Baron Franz-Josef Kasimir Maria Ruttmar Theophilius Willibald Marbach-Äugelchen Freiherr von Großinzuchtlingen-Pommershaven zu Obersdorf-Altlingen am Edlen Wackersfeld the Elder · -3


----------



## pjang23

science said:


> 8 Franck
> 5 Franck


Repeated.



DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Vivaldi · 9


Already in.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Satie · 10
> Vivaldi · 9
> Purcell · 8
> Respighi · 7
> Rossini · 6
> Rott · 5
> Wolf · 4
> von der Vogelweide · 3
> Elgar · 2
> Holst · 1
> 
> Baron Franz-Josef Kasimir Maria Ruttmar Theophilius Willibald Marbach-Äugelchen Freiherr von Großinzuchtlingen-Pommershaven zu Obersdorf-Altlingen am Edlen Wackersfeld the Elder · -3


Satie · 10
*Telemann · 9* <- replaces Vivaldi
Purcell · 8
Respighi · 7
Rossini · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Elgar · 2
Holst · 1

Baron Franz-Josef Kasimir Maria Ruttmar Theophilius Willibald Marbach-Äugelchen Freiherr von Großinzuchtlingen-Pommershaven zu Obersdorf-Altlingen am Edlen Wackersfeld the Elder · -3


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> Repeated.


My bad!

10 Elgar
9 Boccherini
8 Franck 
7 Faure
6 Schoenberg
5 Falla 
4 Cage
3 Massenet 
2 Buxtehude 
1 Victoria
-3 Vaughan Williams


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Purcell
6. Gluck
5. Schnittke
4. Gubaidulina
3. Copland
2. Brouwer
1. Piazolla


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Copland
7 Palestrina
6 Grieg
5 Borodin
4 Rimsky-Korsakov
3 Webern
2 Berg
1 Schoenberg

-3 JC Bach

Thanks again, pjang, for all your hard work.


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Schoenberg - 9 (to reverse damage incurred by HarpsichordConcerto )
Mussorgsky - 8
Ligeti - 7
Hildegarde - 6
Stockhausen - 5

Vaughan Williams -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Rachmaninoff +10
2. Fauré +9
3. Gluck +8
4. J.C. Bach +7
5. Britten +6
6. Gesualdo +5
7. Zelenka +4
8. Biber +3
9. Rameau +2
10. Vaughan Williams +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Fauré - 385
31. Vaughan Williams - 370
32. Elgar - 363
33. Rachmaninoff - 345
34. Schoenberg - 328
35. Messiaen - 318
36. Mussorgsky - 301
37. Puccini - 290
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 265
39. Grieg - 244
39. Ligeti - 244
41. Nielsen - 242
42. Bach, J.C. - 231
43. Purcell - 221
44. Palestrina - 219
45. Berg - 208
46. Gluck - 197
47. Janáček - 193
47. Scriabin - 193
47. Webern - 193
50. Villa-Lobos - 187
51. Barber - 183
52. Josquin - 179
52. Rossini - 179
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 160
55. Rameau - 150
56. Satie - 145
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 133
58. Britten - 132
59. Bizet - 125
60. Varèse - 116
61. Adams - 100
62. Alfven - 99
62. Arnold - 99
64. Glass - 98
65. Gesualdo - 96
66. Schnittke - 94
67. Copland - 88
68. Lully - 84
69. Telemann - 82
70. Reich - 80
71. Ives - 70
71. Rott - 70
73. Pärt - 65
73. Weber - 65
75. Hildegard - 63
76. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 61
77. Donizetti - 60
78. Haydn, Michael - 58
79. Bellini - 56
80. Respighi - 53
80. Strauss II, Johann - 53
82. Novak - 51
83. Penderecki - 49
84. Glazunov - 46
84. Medtner - 46
86. Borodin - 45
87. Hummel - 44
88. Zelenka - 42
89. Albeniz - 40
89. Corelli - 40
89. Hindemith - 40
92. Stockhausen - 38
93. Delius - 34
94. Machaut - 33
94. Wolf - 33
96. Boccherini - 32
97. Gershwin - 30
98. Tallis - 29
98. Vogelweide - 29
100. Enescu - 28
101. Spohr - 26
102. Biber - 25
102. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
102. Schumann, Clara - 25
102. Smetana - 25
106. Dowland - 24
107. Glinka - 22
107. Holst - 22
109. Brian - 18
109. Rodrigo - 18
109. Tveitt - 18
112. Victoria - 17
112. Xenakis - 17
114. Falla - 16
114. Gombert - 16
114. Gorecki - 16
114. Lutoslawski - 16
114. Poulenc - 16
114. Takemitsu - 16
120. Harbison - 15
120. MacDowell - 15
120. Martinu - 15
123. Alkan - 14
123. Byrd - 14
123. Clementi - 14
123. Lalo - 14
123. Paganini - 14
123. Walton - 14
129. Berio - 13
129. Franck - 13
131. Alwyn - 12
131. Buxtehude - 12
131. Offenbach - 12
134. Liefs - 11
135. Bernstein - 10
135. Massanet - 10
135. Rudland - 10
138. Bax - 9
138. Couperin - 9
138. Crumb - 9
138. Golijov - 9
142. Beach - 8
142. Charpentier - 8
142. Zimmerman - 8
145. Boulez - 7
145. Locatelli - 7
145. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
145. Wyschnegradsky - 7
149. Wohlfahrt - 6
150. Eberl - 5
150. Gubaidulina - 5
150. Hartmann - 5
150. Sorabji - 5
150. Veress - 5
155. Brouwer - 4
155. Ferneyhough - 4
155. Henze - 4
155. Schreker - 4
159. Carter - 3
159. Simpson - 3
159. Skalkottas - 3
159. Zemlinsky - 3
163. Allegri - 2
163. Cherubini - 2
163. Danzi - 2
163. Gabrieli - 2
163. Schütz - 2
168. Krenek - 1
168. Meyerbeer - 1
168. Monti - 1
168. Piazolla - 1
172. Tower - -1
173. Cage - -2
174. Czerny - -3
175. Schobert - -20


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Rachmaninoff
9. Mussorgsky
8. Elgar
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. J. Strauss II
4. Glazunov
3. Smetana
2. Glinka
+ 1. Borodin

- 3. Schoenberg

It's a Russian Party, like before!


----------



## DABTSAR

1. Scriabin
2. Chopin
3. Mahler
4. Bach
5. Bartok
6. Schubert
7. Berg
8. Liszt
9. Schnittke
10. Messiaen


----------



## pjang23

DABTSAR said:


> 1. Scriabin
> *2. Chopin
> 3. Mahler
> 4. Bach
> 5. Bartok
> 6. Schubert*
> 7. Berg
> *8. Liszt*
> 9. Schnittke
> 10. Messiaen


Hello Dabtsar,

The bolded already have permanent places on the list, and cannot be voted for.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Elgar	+10	
Purcell	+9	
Puccini	+8	
Walton	+7	
Barber	+6	
Delius	+5	
Bax	+4	
Rameau	+3	
Boccherini	+2	
Weber	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Elgar - 9
Arnold - 8
Massenet - 7
Spohr - 6
Alfven - 5
Novak - 4
Alwyn - 3
Vaughan Williams - 2
Machaut -1


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Vaughan Williams
9.	Faure
8.	JC Bach
7.	Rimsky-Korsakov
6.	Elgar
5.	Puccini
4.	Palestrina
3.	Grieg
2.	Janáček
1.	Telemann

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Puccini = +10
CPE Bach = +9
Michael Haydn = +8
Gluck = +7
Boccherini = +6
F. Couperin = +5
Rameau = +4
Carl Heinrich Graun = +3
Johann Adolph Hasse = +2
Johann David Heinichen = +1

Schoenberg = -5,000,000


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - D. Scarlatti
8 - C.P.E. Bach
7 - Lully
6 - Glass
5 - Weber
4 - Poulenc
3 - Holst
2 - Hummel
1 - Corelli


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Grieg
8 Puccini
7 Josquin
6 Faure
5 Scarlatti
4 Elgar
3 Part
2 Weber
1 Barber
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Elgar and Faure are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams - 382
33. Rachmaninoff - 355
34. Puccini - 321
35. Messiaen - 319
36. Schoenberg - 316
37. Mussorgsky - 310
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 279
39. Grieg - 256
40. Nielsen - 252
41. Ligeti - 244
42. Bach, J.C. - 239
43. Palestrina - 233
44. Purcell - 230
45. Berg - 212
46. Gluck - 204
47. Scriabin - 203
48. Janáček - 195
49. Webern - 193
50. Barber - 190
51. Villa-Lobos - 187
52. Josquin - 186
53. Rossini - 179
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 174
55. Rameau - 157
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 150
57. Satie - 145
58. Bizet - 135
59. Britten - 132
60. Varèse - 116
61. Arnold - 107
62. Alfven - 104
62. Glass - 104
64. Adams - 100
65. Gesualdo - 96
65. Schnittke - 96
67. Lully - 91
68. Copland - 88
69. Telemann - 83
70. Reich - 80
71. Weber - 73
72. Ives - 70
72. Rott - 70
74. Pärt - 68
75. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 67
76. Haydn, Michael - 66
77. Hildegard - 63
78. Donizetti - 60
79. Strauss II, Johann - 58
80. Bellini - 56
81. Novak - 55
82. Respighi - 53
83. Glazunov - 50
84. Penderecki - 49
85. Borodin - 46
85. Hummel - 46
85. Medtner - 46
88. Zelenka - 42
89. Corelli - 41
90. Albeniz - 40
90. Boccherini - 40
90. Hindemith - 40
93. Delius - 39
94. Stockhausen - 38
95. Machaut - 34
96. Wolf - 33
97. Spohr - 32
98. Gershwin - 30
99. Tallis - 29
99. Vogelweide - 29
101. Enescu - 28
101. Smetana - 28
103. Biber - 25
103. Holst - 25
103. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
103. Schumann, Clara - 25
107. Dowland - 24
107. Glinka - 24
109. Walton - 21
110. Poulenc - 20
111. Brian - 18
111. Rodrigo - 18
111. Tveitt - 18
114. Massanet - 17
114. Victoria - 17
114. Xenakis - 17
117. Falla - 16
117. Gombert - 16
117. Gorecki - 16
117. Lutoslawski - 16
117. Takemitsu - 16
122. Alwyn - 15
122. Harbison - 15
122. MacDowell - 15
122. Martinu - 15
126. Alkan - 14
126. Byrd - 14
126. Clementi - 14
126. Couperin - 14
126. Lalo - 14
126. Paganini - 14
132. Bax - 13
132. Berio - 13
132. Franck - 13
135. Buxtehude - 12
135. Offenbach - 12
137. Liefs - 11
138. Bernstein - 10
138. Rudland - 10
140. Crumb - 9
140. Golijov - 9
142. Beach - 8
142. Charpentier - 8
142. Zimmerman - 8
145. Boulez - 7
145. Locatelli - 7
145. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
145. Wyschnegradsky - 7
149. Wohlfahrt - 6
150. Eberl - 5
150. Gubaidulina - 5
150. Hartmann - 5
150. Sorabji - 5
150. Veress - 5
155. Brouwer - 4
155. Ferneyhough - 4
155. Henze - 4
155. Schreker - 4
159. Carter - 3
159. Graun - 3
159. Simpson - 3
159. Skalkottas - 3
159. Zemlinsky - 3
164. Allegri - 2
164. Cherubini - 2
164. Danzi - 2
164. Gabrieli - 2
164. Hasse - 2
164. Schütz - 2
170. Heinichen - 1
170. Krenek - 1
170. Meyerbeer - 1
170. Monti - 1
170. Piazolla - 1
175. Tower - -1
176. Czerny - -3
177. Cage - -5
178. Schobert - -20


----------



## Turangalîla

Schoenberg 10
Messiaen 9
Mussorgsky 8
Berg 7
Webern 6
Hildegarde 5

Holst -3


----------



## science

10 Franck 
9 Boccherini
8 Janacek 
7 Strauss, Johann II 
6 Schoenberg
5 Piazzolla
4 Offenbach 
3 Schutz
2 Massenet
1 Falla
-3 Nielsen


----------



## Trout

10 Vaughan Williams
9 Josquin
8 Copland
7 Palestrina
6 Tallis
5 Schoenberg
4 Borodin
3 Carter
2 Gershwin
1 Rossini

-3 JC Bach


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Rossini
9. RVW
8. Barber
7. Britten
6.Messiaen
5. Adams
4. Weber, von
3. Rameau
2. Purcell
1. Nielsen


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Rossini · 9
Purcell · 8
Respighi · 7
Telemann · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Holst · 2
Corelli · 1


Howard Carpendale · -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Vaughan-Williams is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff - 355
34. Schoenberg - 337
35. Messiaen - 334
36. Puccini - 321
37. Mussorgsky - 318
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 279
39. Grieg - 262
40. Nielsen - 250
41. Ligeti - 244
42. Palestrina - 240
42. Purcell - 240
44. Bach, J.C. - 236
45. Berg - 219
46. Gluck - 204
47. Janáček - 203
47. Scriabin - 203
49. Rossini - 199
49. Webern - 199
51. Barber - 198
52. Josquin - 195
53. Villa-Lobos - 187
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 174
55. Rameau - 160
56. Satie - 155
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 150
58. Britten - 139
59. Bizet - 135
60. Varèse - 116
61. Arnold - 107
62. Adams - 105
63. Alfven - 104
63. Glass - 104
65. Copland - 96
65. Gesualdo - 96
65. Schnittke - 96
68. Lully - 91
69. Telemann - 83
70. Reich - 80
71. Weber - 77
72. Rott - 75
73. Ives - 70
74. Hildegard - 68
74. Pärt - 68
76. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 67
77. Haydn, Michael - 66
78. Strauss II, Johann - 65
79. Donizetti - 60
79. Respighi - 60
81. Bellini - 56
82. Novak - 55
83. Borodin - 50
83. Glazunov - 50
85. Boccherini - 49
85. Penderecki - 49
87. Hummel - 46
87. Medtner - 46
89. Corelli - 42
89. Zelenka - 42
91. Albeniz - 40
91. Hindemith - 40
93. Delius - 39
94. Stockhausen - 38
95. Wolf - 37
96. Tallis - 35
97. Machaut - 34
98. Gershwin - 32
98. Spohr - 32
98. Vogelweide - 32
101. Enescu - 28
101. Smetana - 28
103. Biber - 25
103. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
103. Schumann, Clara - 25
106. Dowland - 24
106. Glinka - 24
106. Holst - 24
109. Franck - 23
110. Walton - 21
111. Poulenc - 20
112. Massanet - 19
113. Brian - 18
113. Rodrigo - 18
113. Tveitt - 18
116. Falla - 17
116. Victoria - 17
116. Xenakis - 17
119. Gombert - 16
119. Gorecki - 16
119. Lutoslawski - 16
119. Offenbach - 16
119. Takemitsu - 16
124. Alwyn - 15
124. Harbison - 15
124. MacDowell - 15
124. Martinu - 15
128. Alkan - 14
128. Byrd - 14
128. Clementi - 14
128. Couperin - 14
128. Lalo - 14
128. Paganini - 14
134. Bax - 13
134. Berio - 13
136. Buxtehude - 12
137. Liefs - 11
138. Bernstein - 10
138. Rudland - 10
140. Crumb - 9
140. Golijov - 9
142. Beach - 8
142. Charpentier - 8
142. Zimmerman - 8
145. Boulez - 7
145. Locatelli - 7
145. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
145. Wyschnegradsky - 7
149. Carter - 6
149. Piazzolla - 6
149. Wohlfahrt - 6
152. Eberl - 5
152. Gubaidulina - 5
152. Hartmann - 5
152. Schütz - 5
152. Sorabji - 5
152. Veress - 5
158. Brouwer - 4
158. Ferneyhough - 4
158. Henze - 4
158. Schreker - 4
162. Graun - 3
162. Simpson - 3
162. Skalkottas - 3
162. Zemlinsky - 3
166. Allegri - 2
166. Cherubini - 2
166. Danzi - 2
166. Gabrieli - 2
166. Hasse - 2
171. Heinichen - 1
171. Krenek - 1
171. Meyerbeer - 1
171. Monti - 1
175. Tower - -1
176. Czerny - -3
177. Cage - -5
178. Schobert - -20


----------



## Couchie

What happened to S. Wagner?

S. Wagner: 10 points
Schobert: 9 points

Cage: -3 points


----------



## StevenOBrien

Couchie said:


> What happened to S. Wagner?
> 
> S. Wagner: 10 points
> Schobert: 9 points
> 
> Cage: -3 points


So, what are your favorite Siegfried Wagner works?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schobert
9 Schoenberg
8 Berg
7 Webern
6 Copland
5 Janacek

-3 Cage


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Purcell
6. Britten
5. Falla
4. Rameau
3. Walton
2. Schnittke
1. Buxtehude


----------



## Couchie

StevenOBrien said:


> So, what are your favorite Siegfried Wagner works?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operas_by_Siegfried_Wagner


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Elgar above Fauré, Rachmaninoff, Vaughan-Williams, Puccini, Mussorgsky, Gluck, Rimsky-Korsakov?  Now that's just wrong.:lol:


----------



## tdc

Couchie said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operas_by_Siegfried_Wagner


So, his main wiki article linked to in that page confirms - none of his works have entered the standard repertory. I suggest that all votes towards S Wagner be officially disallowed for this reason (Can this be an official rule - no works in standard rep = not qualified for list?)


----------



## Couchie

tdc said:


> So, his main wiki article linked to in that page confirms - none of his works have entered the standard repertory. I suggest that all votes towards S Wagner be officially disallowed for this reason (Can this be an official rule - no works in standard rep = not qualified for list?)


I will agree to this, on the condition that you supply the official list of the Standard Repertoire™.


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Rachmaninoff
9. Mussorgsky
8. Rimsky-Korsakov
7. J. Strauss II
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Glazunov
4. Smetana
3. Glinka
2. Borodin
+ 1. Boccherini

- 3. Cage


----------



## Rapide

Boulez 10
Dowland 9
Wohlfahrt 8
Hartmann 7
Skalkottas 6
Zemlinsky 5
Schreker 4
Leifs 3
Crumbs 2
Rossini 1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Rachmaninoff +10
2. Puccini +9
3. Gluck +8
4. Purcell +7
5. Bach, J.C. +6
6. Rimsky-Korsakov +5
7. Rameau +4
8. Britten +3
9. Massanet +2
10. Johann Strauss II +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## pjang23

tdc said:


> So, his main wiki article linked to in that page confirms - none of his works have entered the standard repertory. I suggest that all votes towards S Wagner be officially disallowed for this reason (Can this be an official rule - no works in standard rep = not qualified for list?)


Let's just ignore Kooshy/Kowchee's votes from now on. Quite an obvious troll post.

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff - 375
34. Schoenberg - 340
35. Messiaen - 334
36. Puccini - 330
37. Mussorgsky - 327
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 287
39. Grieg - 262
40. Purcell - 254
41. Nielsen - 250
42. Ligeti - 244
43. Bach, J.C. - 242
44. Palestrina - 240
45. Berg - 227
46. Janáček - 217
47. Gluck - 212
48. Webern - 206
49. Scriabin - 203
50. Rossini - 200
51. Barber - 198
52. Villa-Lobos - 197
53. Josquin - 195
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 187
55. Rameau - 168
56. Satie - 155
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 150
58. Britten - 148
59. Bizet - 135
60. Varèse - 116
61. Arnold - 107
62. Adams - 105
63. Alfven - 104
63. Glass - 104
65. Copland - 102
66. Schnittke - 98
67. Gesualdo - 96
68. Lully - 91
69. Telemann - 83
70. Reich - 80
71. Weber - 77
72. Rott - 75
73. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 73
73. Strauss II, Johann - 73
75. Ives - 70
76. Hildegard - 68
76. Pärt - 68
78. Haydn, Michael - 66
79. Donizetti - 60
79. Respighi - 60
81. Bellini - 56
82. Glazunov - 55
82. Novak - 55
84. Borodin - 52
85. Boccherini - 50
86. Penderecki - 49
87. Hummel - 46
87. Medtner - 46
89. Corelli - 42
89. Zelenka - 42
91. Albeniz - 40
91. Hindemith - 40
93. Delius - 39
94. Stockhausen - 38
95. Wolf - 37
96. Tallis - 35
97. Machaut - 34
98. Dowland - 33
99. Gershwin - 32
99. Smetana - 32
99. Spohr - 32
99. Vogelweide - 32
103. Enescu - 28
104. Glinka - 27
105. Biber - 25
105. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
105. Schumann, Clara - 25
108. Holst - 24
108. Walton - 24
110. Franck - 23
111. Falla - 22
112. Massanet - 21
113. Poulenc - 20
114. Brian - 18
114. Rodrigo - 18
114. Tveitt - 18
117. Boulez - 17
117. Victoria - 17
117. Xenakis - 17
120. Gombert - 16
120. Gorecki - 16
120. Lutoslawski - 16
120. Offenbach - 16
120. Takemitsu - 16
125. Alwyn - 15
125. Harbison - 15
125. MacDowell - 15
125. Martinu - 15
129. Alkan - 14
129. Byrd - 14
129. Clementi - 14
129. Couperin - 14
129. Lalo - 14
129. Liefs - 14
129. Paganini - 14
129. Wohlfahrt - 14
137. Bax - 13
137. Berio - 13
137. Buxtehude - 13
140. Hartmann - 12
141. Crumb - 11
142. Bernstein - 10
142. Rudland - 10
144. Golijov - 9
144. Skalkottas - 9
146. Beach - 8
146. Charpentier - 8
146. Schreker - 8
146. Zemlinsky - 8
146. Zimmerman - 8
151. Locatelli - 7
151. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
151. Wyschnegradsky - 7
154. Carter - 6
154. Piazzolla - 6
156. Eberl - 5
156. Gubaidulina - 5
156. Schütz - 5
156. Sorabji - 5
156. Veress - 5
161. Brouwer - 4
161. Ferneyhough - 4
161. Henze - 4
164. Graun - 3
164. Simpson - 3
166. Allegri - 2
166. Cherubini - 2
166. Danzi - 2
166. Gabrieli - 2
166. Hasse - 2
171. Heinichen - 1
171. Krenek - 1
171. Meyerbeer - 1
171. Monti - 1
175. Tower - -1
176. Czerny - -3
177. Schobert - -10
178. Cage - -11


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Elgar above Fauré, Rachmaninoff, Vaughan-Williams, Puccini, Mussorgsky, Gluck, Rimsky-Korsakov?  Now that's just wrong.:lol:


Really? I was thinking Vaughan Williams above Elgar would be wrong. There is a certain something about RVW's music - warm tones, lots of melodies, no dark side, sort of like Delius - that I think makes him more popular than Elgar or Britten. But is he really regarded so much more highly than they are?

Edit: I just remembered the Pomp & Circumstance marches. I suppose that weighs against Elgar pretty strongly.


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Barber - 9
Arnold - 8
Alfven - 7
JC Bach - 6
Walton - 5
Massenet - 4
Liefs - 3
Novak - 2
Bizet - 1


----------



## Very Senior Member

In the UK I would hazard a guess that Elgar is rather more popular than Vaughan Williams. I accept that this is debatable, but it’s my assessment based on many years of listening to radio broadcasts, which I think provides a pretty good indicator of what the public likes. I like both Elgar and Vaughan Williams, but since this is as much a game of tactics as expression of outright preferences, I gave more of my votes to Elgar because I could see that sufficient others were voting for Vaughan Williams. 

Elgar wrote a great deal of music across most genres. One reason I prefer Elgar to Vaughan Williams is that the latter’s music has a more modern flavour which I’m less keen on compared with the music of a generation earlier. I especially like Elgar’s his choral masterpiece The Dream of Gerontius. Among the symphonies of the two composers, my favourite is Elgar’s second. 

Today’s selections:	

Purcell	+10	
Walton	+9	
Victoria	+8	
Delius	+7	
Bax	+6	
Britten	+5	
Barber	+4	
Holst	+3	
Smetana	+2	
Buxtehude	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Palestrina
7 Schoenberg
6 Rimsky-Korsakov
5 Ives
4 Gabrieli
3 Tallis
2 Machaut
1 Byrd

-3 JC Bach


I do not really mind Elgar's placing, even if it is ahead of Vaughan Williams. What bothers me the most, however, is Saint-Saens beating both of them as well as all of the other composers StlukesguildOhio mentioned.


----------



## Vesteralen

I still think it's interesting that, in spite of some of us (like myself) who are voting for our favorites and not strictly for "the greatest", our list and the online list I referred to earlier are very close.

In the Top 32, there are only three exceptions:

We have Elgar, Saint-Saens and Faure (who are 35/37/43 on the other list)

He has Palestrina, Mussorsky and Puccini (who are 44/37/36 on ours)


----------



## mmsbls

10.	JC Bach
9.	Rimsky-Korsakov
8.	Puccini
7.	Palestrina
6.	Grieg
5.	Janáček
4.	Telemann
3.	Rachmaninoff
2.	Mussorgsky
1.	Purcell

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Puccini
8 Josquin
7 Scarlatti
6 Grieg
5 Purcell
4 Gluck
3 Lully
2 Part
1 Berg
-3 Alfven

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff - 378
34. Puccini - 347
35. Schoenberg - 341
36. Messiaen - 334
37. Mussorgsky - 329
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 294
39. Grieg - 274
40. Purcell - 270
41. Palestrina - 265
42. Nielsen - 260
43. Bach, J.C. - 255
44. Ligeti - 244
45. Berg - 228
46. Janáček - 222
47. Gluck - 216
48. Josquin - 213
49. Barber - 211
50. Webern - 206
51. Scriabin - 203
52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 202
53. Rossini - 200
54. Villa-Lobos - 197
55. Rameau - 168
56. Satie - 155
57. Britten - 153
58. Bach, C.P.E. - 150
59. Bizet - 136
60. Varèse - 116
61. Arnold - 115
62. Copland - 111
63. Alfven - 108
64. Adams - 105
65. Glass - 104
66. Schnittke - 98
67. Gesualdo - 96
68. Lully - 94
69. Telemann - 87
70. Reich - 80
71. Weber - 77
72. Ives - 75
72. Rott - 75
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 73
74. Strauss II, Johann - 73
76. Pärt - 70
77. Hildegard - 68
78. Haydn, Michael - 66
79. Donizetti - 60
79. Respighi - 60
81. Novak - 57
82. Bellini - 56
83. Glazunov - 55
84. Borodin - 52
85. Boccherini - 50
86. Penderecki - 49
87. Delius - 46
87. Hummel - 46
87. Medtner - 46
90. Corelli - 42
90. Zelenka - 42
92. Albeniz - 40
92. Hindemith - 40
94. Stockhausen - 38
94. Tallis - 38
94. Walton - 38
97. Wolf - 37
98. Machaut - 36
99. Smetana - 34
100. Dowland - 33
101. Gershwin - 32
101. Spohr - 32
101. Vogelweide - 32
104. Enescu - 28
105. Glinka - 27
105. Holst - 27
107. Biber - 25
107. Massanet - 25
107. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
107. Schumann, Clara - 25
107. Victoria - 25
112. Franck - 23
113. Falla - 22
114. Poulenc - 20
115. Bax - 19
116. Brian - 18
116. Rodrigo - 18
116. Tveitt - 18
119. Boulez - 17
119. Liefs - 17
119. Xenakis - 17
122. Gombert - 16
122. Gorecki - 16
122. Lutoslawski - 16
122. Offenbach - 16
122. Takemitsu - 16
127. Alwyn - 15
127. Byrd - 15
127. Harbison - 15
127. MacDowell - 15
127. Martinu - 15
132. Alkan - 14
132. Buxtehude - 14
132. Clementi - 14
132. Couperin - 14
132. Lalo - 14
132. Paganini - 14
132. Wohlfahrt - 14
139. Berio - 13
140. Hartmann - 12
141. Crumb - 11
142. Bernstein - 10
142. Rudland - 10
144. Golijov - 9
144. Skalkottas - 9
146. Beach - 8
146. Charpentier - 8
146. Schreker - 8
146. Zemlinsky - 8
146. Zimmerman - 8
151. Locatelli - 7
151. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
151. Wyschnegradsky - 7
154. Carter - 6
154. Gabrieli - 6
154. Piazzolla - 6
157. Eberl - 5
157. Gubaidulina - 5
157. Schütz - 5
157. Sorabji - 5
157. Veress - 5
162. Brouwer - 4
162. Ferneyhough - 4
162. Henze - 4
165. Graun - 3
165. Simpson - 3
167. Allegri - 2
167. Cherubini - 2
167. Danzi - 2
167. Hasse - 2
171. Heinichen - 1
171. Krenek - 1
171. Meyerbeer - 1
171. Monti - 1
175. Tower - -1
176. Czerny - -3
177. Schobert - -10
178. Cage - -11


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Rachmaninoff: 9
Grieg: 8

Ligeti: -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 Palestrina
6 Nielsen
5 Barber
4 Scriabin

-3 JC Bach (higher than CPE?)


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Puccini = +10
JC Bach = +9
CPE Bach = +8
Rossini = +7
Donizetti = +6
Bellini = +5
Graun = +4
Hasse = +3
Heinichen = +2
Michael Haydn = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - C.P.E. Bach
8 - Scarlatti
7 - Puccini
6 - Grieg
5 - Lully
4 - Scriabin
3 - Poulenc
2 - Rossini
1 - Glass


----------



## science

10 Franck 
9 Cage
8 Machaut
7 Josquin
6 Janacek
5 Schoenberg
4 Piazzolla
3 Strauss, J II
2 Boccherini
1 Schutz
-3 Schobert


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Purcell · 9
Telemann · 8
Rossini · 7
Respighi · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Holst · 2
Corelli · 1

Johnny Hill · -3


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Purcell
6. Britten
5. Gluck
4. Rameau
3. Lully
2. Albeniz
1. Copland


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
2. Britten +9
3. Massenet +8
4. Johann Strauss II +7
5. Biber +6
6. Rachmaninoff +5
7. J.C. Bach +4
8. Rimsky-Korsakov +3
9. Gesualdo +2
10. Bellini +1

Schoenberg -3


----------



## science

We need to change "Massanet" to "Massenet."


----------



## Rapide

Rachaninoff 10
Boccherini 9
Glazunov 8
Borodin 7
Boulez 6
Janacek 5
Smetana 4
Falla 3
Corelli 2
Domizetti 1
-3 Schoenberg


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Rachmaninoff is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini - 364
35. Schoenberg - 347
36. Messiaen - 334
37. Mussorgsky - 329
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 310
39. Grieg - 288
40. Purcell - 286
41. Palestrina - 272
42. Nielsen - 266
43. Bach, J.C. - 265
44. Janáček - 242
45. Ligeti - 241
46. Berg - 237
47. Gluck - 231
48. Scriabin - 221
49. Josquin - 220
50. Barber - 216
50. Rossini - 216
52. Webern - 214
53. Villa-Lobos - 207
54. Rimsky-Korsakov - 205
55. Rameau - 172
56. Britten - 168
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 167
58. Satie - 165
59. Bizet - 146
60. Varèse - 116
61. Arnold - 115
62. Copland - 112
63. Alfven - 108
64. Adams - 105
64. Glass - 105
66. Lully - 102
67. Gesualdo - 98
67. Schnittke - 98
69. Telemann - 95
70. Strauss II, Johann - 83
71. Reich - 80
71. Rott - 80
73. Weber - 77
74. Ives - 75
75. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 73
76. Pärt - 70
77. Hildegard - 68
78. Donizetti - 67
78. Haydn, Michael - 67
80. Respighi - 66
81. Glazunov - 63
82. Bellini - 62
83. Boccherini - 61
84. Borodin - 59
85. Novak - 57
86. Penderecki - 49
87. Delius - 46
87. Hummel - 46
87. Medtner - 46
90. Corelli - 45
91. Machaut - 44
92. Albeniz - 42
92. Zelenka - 42
94. Wolf - 41
95. Hindemith - 40
96. Smetana - 38
96. Stockhausen - 38
96. Tallis - 38
96. Walton - 38
100. Vogelweide - 35
101. Dowland - 33
101. Franck - 33
101. Massenet - 33
104. Gershwin - 32
104. Spohr - 32
106. Biber - 31
107. Holst - 29
108. Enescu - 28
109. Glinka - 27
110. Falla - 25
110. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
110. Schumann, Clara - 25
110. Victoria - 25
114. Boulez - 23
114. Poulenc - 23
116. Bax - 19
117. Brian - 18
117. Rodrigo - 18
117. Tveitt - 18
120. Liefs - 17
120. Xenakis - 17
122. Gombert - 16
122. Gorecki - 16
122. Lutoslawski - 16
122. Offenbach - 16
122. Takemitsu - 16
127. Alwyn - 15
127. Byrd - 15
127. Harbison - 15
127. MacDowell - 15
127. Martinu - 15
132. Alkan - 14
132. Buxtehude - 14
132. Clementi - 14
132. Couperin - 14
132. Lalo - 14
132. Paganini - 14
132. Wohlfahrt - 14
139. Berio - 13
140. Hartmann - 12
141. Crumb - 11
142. Bernstein - 10
142. Piazzolla - 10
142. Rudland - 10
145. Golijov - 9
145. Skalkottas - 9
147. Beach - 8
147. Charpentier - 8
147. Schreker - 8
147. Zemlinsky - 8
147. Zimmerman - 8
152. Graun - 7
152. Locatelli - 7
152. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
152. Wyschnegradsky - 7
156. Carter - 6
156. Gabrieli - 6
156. Schütz - 6
159. Eberl - 5
159. Gubaidulina - 5
159. Hasse - 5
159. Sorabji - 5
159. Veress - 5
164. Brouwer - 4
164. Ferneyhough - 4
164. Henze - 4
167. Heinichen - 3
167. Simpson - 3
169. Allegri - 2
169. Cherubini - 2
169. Danzi - 2
172. Krenek - 1
172. Meyerbeer - 1
172. Monti - 1
175. Tower - -1
176. Cage - -2
177. Czerny - -3
178. Schobert - -13


----------



## Very Senior Member

Purcell	+10	
Britten	+9	
Weber	+8	
Delius	+7	
Bax	+6	
Walton	+5	
Holst	+4	
Barber	+3	
Victoria	+2	
Schütz	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Schütz
9. Mussorgsky
8. J. Strauss II
7. Rimsky-Korsakov
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Glazunov
4. Smetana
3. Glinka
2. Grieg
+ 1. J. Strauss I 


- 3. Schoenberg


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10
Ligeti: -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10. pts Rossini
9. Purcell
8. Barber
7. Nielsen
6. Messiaen
5. Rameau
4. Britten
3. Janacek
2. Adams
1. Gershwin


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

DeepR said:


> Scriabin: 10
> Ligeti: -3


:scold::scold::scold:


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Barber - 9 pts
Bizet - 8 pts
Alfven - 7 pts
Arnold - 6 pts
Novak - 5 pts
Massenet - 4 pts
Harbison - 3 pts
Alwyn - 2 pts
JC Bach - 1 pt


----------



## mmsbls

10.	JC Bach
9.	Rimsky-Korsakov
8.	Puccini
7.	Palestrina
6.	Grieg
5.	Janáček
4.	Telemann
3.	Mussorgsky
2.	Purcell
1.	Bach, C.P.E.

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## science

Wager, en route to 450 points: 17 negative votes.
Schoenberg, en route to 400: 42 negative votes, so far.


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Josquin
8 Puccini
7 Scarlatti
6 Grieg
5 Purcell
4 Rimsky-Korsakov
3 Schobert 
2 Gluck
1 Machaut
-3 Cage

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini - 380
35. Mussorgsky - 341
36. Messiaen - 340
37. Schoenberg - 338
38. Scarlatti, Domenico - 317
39. Purcell - 312
40. Grieg - 302
41. Palestrina - 289
42. Nielsen - 283
43. Bach, J.C. - 276
44. Janáček - 250
45. Ligeti - 238
46. Berg - 237
47. Barber - 236
48. Gluck - 233
49. Scriabin - 231
50. Josquin - 229
51. Rossini - 226
52. Rimsky-Korsakov - 225
53. Webern - 214
54. Villa-Lobos - 207
55. Britten - 181
56. Rameau - 177
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 168
58. Satie - 165
59. Bizet - 154
60. Arnold - 121
61. Varèse - 116
62. Alfven - 115
63. Copland - 112
64. Adams - 107
65. Glass - 105
66. Lully - 102
67. Telemann - 99
68. Gesualdo - 98
68. Schnittke - 98
70. Strauss II, Johann - 91
71. Weber - 85
72. Reich - 80
72. Rott - 80
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 79
75. Ives - 75
76. Pärt - 70
77. Glazunov - 68
77. Hildegard - 68
79. Donizetti - 67
79. Haydn, Michael - 67
81. Respighi - 66
82. Bellini - 62
82. Novak - 62
84. Boccherini - 61
85. Borodin - 59
86. Delius - 53
87. Penderecki - 49
88. Hummel - 46
88. Medtner - 46
90. Corelli - 45
90. Machaut - 45
92. Walton - 43
93. Albeniz - 42
93. Smetana - 42
93. Zelenka - 42
96. Wolf - 41
97. Hindemith - 40
98. Stockhausen - 38
98. Tallis - 38
100. Massenet - 37
101. Vogelweide - 35
102. Dowland - 33
102. Franck - 33
102. Gershwin - 33
102. Holst - 33
106. Spohr - 32
107. Biber - 31
108. Glinka - 30
109. Enescu - 28
110. Victoria - 27
111. Bax - 25
111. Falla - 25
111. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
111. Schumann, Clara - 25
115. Boulez - 23
115. Poulenc - 23
117. Brian - 18
117. Harbison - 18
117. Rodrigo - 18
117. Tveitt - 18
121. Alwyn - 17
121. Liefs - 17
121. Schütz - 17
121. Xenakis - 17
125. Gombert - 16
125. Gorecki - 16
125. Lutoslawski - 16
125. Offenbach - 16
125. Takemitsu - 16
130. Byrd - 15
130. MacDowell - 15
130. Martinu - 15
133. Alkan - 14
133. Buxtehude - 14
133. Clementi - 14
133. Couperin - 14
133. Lalo - 14
133. Paganini - 14
133. Wohlfahrt - 14
140. Berio - 13
141. Hartmann - 12
142. Crumb - 11
143. Bernstein - 10
143. Piazzolla - 10
143. Rudland - 10
146. Golijov - 9
146. Skalkottas - 9
148. Beach - 8
148. Charpentier - 8
148. Schreker - 8
148. Zemlinsky - 8
148. Zimmerman - 8
153. Graun - 7
153. Locatelli - 7
153. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
153. Wyschnegradsky - 7
157. Carter - 6
157. Gabrieli - 6
159. Eberl - 5
159. Gubaidulina - 5
159. Hasse - 5
159. Sorabji - 5
159. Veress - 5
164. Brouwer - 4
164. Ferneyhough - 4
164. Henze - 4
167. Heinichen - 3
167. Simpson - 3
169. Allegri - 2
169. Cherubini - 2
169. Danzi - 2
172. Krenek - 1
172. Meyerbeer - 1
172. Monti - 1
172. Strauss I, Johann - 1
176. Tower - -1
177. Czerny - -3
178. Cage - -5
179. Schobert - -10


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Palestrina
7 Grieg
6 Webern
5 Borodin
4 Berg
3 Tallis
2 Schoenberg
1 Ives

-3 JC Bach


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Purcell
6. Britten
5. Gluck
4. Schnittke
3. Copland
2. Ives
1. Rameau


----------



## science

10 Schoenberg 
9 Britten 
8 Franck 
7 Cage
6 Albeniz 
5 Janacek 
4 Piazzolla 
3 Schutz
2 Allegri 
1 Tower
-3 Schobert


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Rossini
9 Barber
8 Britten
7 Purcell
6 Messiaen
5 Adams
4 Donizetti
3 Janacek
2 Weber
1 Rameau


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Puccini = +10
JC Bach = +9
CPE Bach = +8
Rossini = +7
Spohr = +6
Rameau = +5
Graun = +4
Heinichen = +3
Hasse = +2
Telemann = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## Conor71

10 Puccini
9 Villa-Lobos


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Puccini is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Schoenberg - 347
36. Messiaen - 346
37. Mussorgsky - 341
38. Purcell - 326
39. Scarlatti, Domenico - 325
40. Grieg - 309
41. Palestrina - 297
42. Nielsen - 283
43. Bach, J.C. - 282
44. Janáček - 267
45. Barber - 245
46. Rossini - 243
47. Berg - 241
48. Josquin - 239
49. Gluck - 238
49. Ligeti - 238
51. Scriabin - 231
52. Villa-Lobos - 226
53. Rimsky-Korsakov - 225
54. Webern - 220
55. Britten - 204
56. Rameau - 184
57. Bach, C.P.E. - 176
58. Satie - 165
59. Bizet - 154
60. Copland - 124
61. Arnold - 121
62. Varèse - 116
63. Alfven - 115
64. Adams - 112
65. Glass - 105
66. Lully - 102
66. Schnittke - 102
68. Telemann - 100
69. Gesualdo - 98
70. Strauss II, Johann - 91
71. Weber - 87
72. Reich - 80
72. Rott - 80
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 79
75. Ives - 78
76. Donizetti - 71
77. Pärt - 70
78. Glazunov - 68
78. Hildegard - 68
80. Haydn, Michael - 67
81. Respighi - 66
82. Borodin - 64
83. Bellini - 62
83. Novak - 62
85. Boccherini - 61
86. Delius - 53
87. Penderecki - 49
88. Albeniz - 48
89. Hummel - 46
89. Medtner - 46
91. Corelli - 45
91. Machaut - 45
93. Walton - 43
94. Smetana - 42
94. Zelenka - 42
96. Franck - 41
96. Tallis - 41
96. Wolf - 41
99. Hindemith - 40
100. Spohr - 38
100. Stockhausen - 38
102. Massenet - 37
103. Vogelweide - 35
104. Dowland - 33
104. Gershwin - 33
104. Holst - 33
107. Biber - 31
108. Glinka - 30
109. Enescu - 28
110. Victoria - 27
111. Bax - 25
111. Falla - 25
111. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
111. Schumann, Clara - 25
115. Boulez - 23
115. Poulenc - 23
117. Schütz - 20
118. Brian - 18
118. Harbison - 18
118. Rodrigo - 18
118. Tveitt - 18
122. Alwyn - 17
122. Liefs - 17
122. Xenakis - 17
125. Gombert - 16
125. Gorecki - 16
125. Lutoslawski - 16
125. Offenbach - 16
125. Takemitsu - 16
130. Byrd - 15
130. MacDowell - 15
130. Martinu - 15
133. Alkan - 14
133. Buxtehude - 14
133. Clementi - 14
133. Couperin - 14
133. Lalo - 14
133. Paganini - 14
133. Piazzolla - 14
133. Wohlfahrt - 14
141. Berio - 13
142. Hartmann - 12
143. Crumb - 11
143. Graun - 11
145. Bernstein - 10
145. Rudland - 10
147. Golijov - 9
147. Skalkottas - 9
149. Beach - 8
149. Charpentier - 8
149. Schreker - 8
149. Zemlinsky - 8
149. Zimmerman - 8
154. Hasse - 7
154. Locatelli - 7
154. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
154. Wyschnegradsky - 7
158. Carter - 6
158. Gabrieli - 6
158. Heinichen - 6
161. Eberl - 5
161. Gubaidulina - 5
161. Sorabji - 5
161. Veress - 5
165. Allegri - 4
165. Brouwer - 4
165. Ferneyhough - 4
165. Henze - 4
169. Simpson - 3
170. Cage - 2
170. Cherubini - 2
170. Danzi - 2
173. Krenek - 1
173. Meyerbeer - 1
173. Monti - 1
173. Strauss I, Johann - 1
177. Czerny - -3
178. Schobert - -13


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Mussorgsky
9. Rimsky-Korsakov
*8. Nielsen
7. Berwald*
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. J. Strauss II
4. Glazunov
*3. Grieg
2. Alfven*
+ 1. Glinka

- 3. Schoenberg

Scandinavia time


----------



## Rapide

Purcell 10
Takemitsu 9
Biber 8
Henze 7
Boulez 6
Smetana 5
D. Scarlatti 4
Martinu 3
Falla 2
Beach 1
Schoenberg -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Schoenberg
9 Berg
8 Webern

-3 Messiaen

I hate you all.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Mussorgsky +10
2. Purcell +9
3. Scarlatti, Domenico +8
4. Bach, J.C. +7
5. Gluck +6
6. Rimsky-Korsakov +5
7. Britten +4
8. Gesualdo +3
9. Strauss II, Johann +2
10. Massenet +1

It's now hard to decide who deserve my -3 vote more... Schoenberg, Messiaen... or Ligeti

Messiaen -3

Toddlertoddy: I hate you all.

But it seems obvious that we all hate Schoenberg.

science:
Wager, en route to 450 points: 17 negative votes.
Schoenberg, en route to 400: 42 negative votes, so far.

Hmmm... wonder why that is?


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Hmmm... wonder why that is?


Tell me again how much more hated Wagner is?


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen 10
Schoenberg 9
Ligeti 8


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Purcell · 9
Respighi · 8
Lully · 7
Telemann · 6
Rossini · 5
Rott · 4
Wolf · 3
von der Vogelweide · 2
Grieg · 1

Frippschwintz Rieselnatz · -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Purcell	+10	
Victoria	+9	
Delius	+8	
Britten	+7	
Michael Haydn	+6	
Walton	+5	
C P E Bach	+4	
Telemann	+3	
Rameau	+2	
Boccherini	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen 10 pts
Barber 9
Alfven 8
Arnold 7
Novak 6
Harbison 5
Alwyn 4
Machaut 3
Grieg 2
Janacek 1


----------



## Cygnenoir

Messiaen - 10
Schoenberg - 9
Ligeti - 8
Grieg - 7
Reich - 6
Adams - 5
Penderecki - 4
Gershwin - 3
Pärt - 2
Takemitsu - 1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Tell me again how much more hated Wagner is?

You may be right. But there is a key difference. The dislike of Schoenberg is based solely upon the music, while the hatred of Wagner all too often seems based upon anything but the music. Seriously, I don't hate Schoenberg. There are several pieces by him I quite like. I do think he was a negative influence upon Berg and Webern... and I find Berg especially to be the far better composer.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	JC Bach
9.	Rimsky-Korsakov
8.	Puccini
7.	Palestrina
6.	Grieg
5.	Janáček
4.	Telemann
3.	Mussorgsky
2.	Purcell
1.	Bach, C.P.E.

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - D. Scarlatti
8 - Glass
7 - C.P.E. Bach
6 - Grieg
5 - Purcell
4 - Scriabin
3 - Schoenberg
2 - Palestrina
1 - Lully


----------



## pjang23

mmsbls said:


> 8. Puccini


Already in.

10 Palestrina
9 Scarlatti
8 Purcell
7 Josquin
6 Grieg
5 Barber
4 Part
3 Schobert
2 Weber
1 Donizetti
-3 Cage

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell - 379
36. Schoenberg - 366
37. Mussorgsky - 364
38. Messiaen - 360
39. Scarlatti, Domenico - 355
40. Grieg - 340
41. Palestrina - 316
42. Nielsen - 301
43. Bach, J.C. - 299
44. Janáček - 273
45. Barber - 259
46. Ligeti - 254
47. Berg - 250
48. Rimsky-Korsakov - 248
48. Rossini - 248
50. Josquin - 246
51. Gluck - 244
52. Scriabin - 235
53. Webern - 228
54. Villa-Lobos - 226
55. Britten - 215
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 188
57. Rameau - 186
58. Satie - 175
59. Bizet - 164
60. Arnold - 128
61. Alfven - 125
62. Copland - 124
63. Adams - 117
64. Varèse - 116
65. Glass - 113
65. Telemann - 113
67. Lully - 110
68. Schnittke - 102
69. Gesualdo - 101
70. Strauss II, Johann - 98
71. Weber - 89
72. Reich - 86
73. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 85
74. Rott - 84
75. Ives - 78
76. Pärt - 76
77. Respighi - 74
78. Haydn, Michael - 73
79. Donizetti - 72
79. Glazunov - 72
81. Hildegard - 68
81. Novak - 68
83. Borodin - 64
84. Bellini - 62
84. Boccherini - 62
86. Delius - 61
87. Penderecki - 53
88. Albeniz - 48
88. Machaut - 48
88. Walton - 48
91. Smetana - 47
92. Hummel - 46
92. Medtner - 46
94. Corelli - 45
95. Wolf - 44
96. Zelenka - 42
97. Franck - 41
97. Tallis - 41
99. Hindemith - 40
100. Biber - 39
101. Massenet - 38
101. Spohr - 38
101. Stockhausen - 38
104. Vogelweide - 37
105. Gershwin - 36
105. Victoria - 36
107. Dowland - 33
107. Holst - 33
109. Glinka - 30
110. Boulez - 29
111. Enescu - 28
112. Falla - 27
113. Takemitsu - 26
114. Bax - 25
114. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 25
114. Schumann, Clara - 25
117. Harbison - 23
117. Poulenc - 23
119. Alwyn - 21
120. Schütz - 20
121. Brian - 18
121. Martinu - 18
121. Rodrigo - 18
121. Tveitt - 18
125. Liefs - 17
125. Xenakis - 17
127. Gombert - 16
127. Gorecki - 16
127. Lutoslawski - 16
127. Offenbach - 16
131. Byrd - 15
131. MacDowell - 15
133. Alkan - 14
133. Buxtehude - 14
133. Clementi - 14
133. Couperin - 14
133. Lalo - 14
133. Paganini - 14
133. Piazzolla - 14
133. Wohlfahrt - 14
141. Berio - 13
142. Hartmann - 12
143. Crumb - 11
143. Graun - 11
143. Henze - 11
146. Bernstein - 10
146. Rudland - 10
148. Beach - 9
148. Golijov - 9
148. Skalkottas - 9
151. Charpentier - 8
151. Schreker - 8
151. Zemlinsky - 8
151. Zimmerman - 8
155. Berwald - 7
155. Hasse - 7
155. Locatelli - 7
155. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
155. Wyschnegradsky - 7
160. Carter - 6
160. Gabrieli - 6
160. Heinichen - 6
163. Eberl - 5
163. Gubaidulina - 5
163. Sorabji - 5
163. Veress - 5
167. Allegri - 4
167. Brouwer - 4
167. Ferneyhough - 4
170. Simpson - 3
171. Cherubini - 2
171. Danzi - 2
173. Krenek - 1
173. Meyerbeer - 1
173. Monti - 1
173. Strauss I, Johann - 1
177. Cage - -1
178. Czerny - -3
179. Schobert - -10


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Purcell = +10
Domenico Scarlatti = +9
JC Bach = +8
CPE Bach = +7
Michael Haydn = +6
Carl Friedrich Abel = +5 
Tomaso Albinoni = +4
Benedetto Marcello = +3
Giuseppe Torelli = +2
Alessandro Scarlatti = +1

Messiaen = -3


----------



## Turangalîla

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Messiaen 10
> Schoenberg 9
> Ligeti 8


Seriously, why did six people like that comment?? 

Today's vote (I am on an avante-garde binge ):

Messiaen - 10
Ligeti - 9
Berg - 8
Webern - 7
Stockhausen - 6
Mussorgsky - 3
Schoenberg - 1


----------



## Rapide

D Scarlattii 10 his keybaord sonatas are cool
Purcell 9
Boulez 8
Gershwin 7
Villa-Lobos 6
Poulenc 5
Alkan 4
Glass 3
Borodin 2
Corelli 1

-3 Schoenberg


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

How many votes does Messiaen have that were not made by CarterJohnsonPiano? It reveals a definite flaw in the voting method. Under the right circumstances Wyschnegradsky or Schobert could be forced into the top-40 by the single obsessed and dedicated voter. I guess under the circumstances, Messiaen in the top-40 isn't all that bad.


----------



## crmoorhead

There are at least four of us giving Messiaen points. 

10. Rossini
9. Britten
8. Barber
7. Messiaen
6. Adams
5. Janacek
4. Weber
3. Purcell (who is now voted in)
2. Arnold
1. Corelli


----------



## pjang23

crmoorhead said:


> There are at least four of us giving Messiaen points.
> 
> 10. Rossini
> 9. Britten
> 8. Barber
> 7. Messiaen
> 6. Adams
> 5. Janacek
> 4. Weber
> 3. Purcell (who is now voted in)
> 2. Arnold
> 1. Corelli


Yup, Purcell is now in. I'll wait for a few more votes before updating.


----------



## science

10 Schoenberg
9 Britten
8 Franck 
7 Cage
6 Machaut
5 Josquin
4 Janacek
3 Piazzolla
2 Strauss, J II
1 Boccherini
-3 JC Bach


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 Schoenberg
6 Palestrina
5 Copland
4 Ives
3 Tallis
2 Machaut
1 Byrd

-3 JC Bach


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Tell me again how much more hated Wagner is?
> 
> You may be right. But there is a key difference. The dislike of Schoenberg is based solely upon the music, while the hatred of Wagner *all too often seems* based upon anything but the music. Seriously, I don't hate Schoenberg. There are several pieces by him I quite like. I do think he was a negative influence upon Berg and Webern... and I find Berg especially to be the far better composer.


Nicely phrased. You didn't technically accuse people who disagree with you of anything, but you effectively did. Politics?

However, it's more than you know. You can't distinguish which of the -3 votes against Wagner were against the man, or against his legacy, or against the music.

And regardless, the point remains: Schoenberg is obviously hated with a fervency surpassing that of Wagner. Within the confines of this activity, evidently about three times as much. Your former whining was misplaced.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Mussorgsky +10
2. Scarlatti, Domenico +9
3. Bach, J.C. +8
4. Gluck +7
5. Rimsky-Korsakov +6
6. Britten +5
7. Biber +4
8. Massenet +3
9. Johann Strauss II +2
10. Gesualdo +1

Messiaen -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Purcell is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico - 383
37. Schoenberg - 381
38. Mussorgsky - 377
39. Messiaen - 371
40. Grieg - 340
41. Palestrina - 322
42. Bach, J.C. - 312
43. Nielsen - 301
44. Janáček - 282
45. Barber - 267
45. Berg - 267
47. Ligeti - 263
48. Josquin - 261
49. Rossini - 258
50. Rimsky-Korsakov - 254
51. Gluck - 251
52. Webern - 243
53. Britten - 238
54. Scriabin - 235
55. Villa-Lobos - 232
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 195
57. Rameau - 186
58. Satie - 175
59. Bizet - 164
60. Arnold - 130
61. Copland - 129
62. Alfven - 125
63. Adams - 123
64. Glass - 116
64. Varèse - 116
66. Telemann - 113
67. Lully - 110
68. Gesualdo - 102
68. Schnittke - 102
68. Strauss II, Johann - 102
71. Weber - 93
72. Reich - 86
73. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 85
74. Rott - 84
75. Ives - 82
76. Haydn, Michael - 79
77. Pärt - 76
78. Respighi - 74
79. Donizetti - 72
79. Glazunov - 72
81. Hildegard - 68
81. Novak - 68
83. Borodin - 66
84. Boccherini - 63
85. Bellini - 62
86. Delius - 61
87. Machaut - 56
88. Penderecki - 53
89. Franck - 49
90. Albeniz - 48
90. Walton - 48
92. Corelli - 47
92. Smetana - 47
94. Hummel - 46
94. Medtner - 46
96. Stockhausen - 44
96. Tallis - 44
96. Wolf - 44
99. Biber - 43
99. Gershwin - 43
101. Zelenka - 42
102. Massenet - 41
103. Hindemith - 40
104. Spohr - 38
105. Boulez - 37
105. Vogelweide - 37
107. Victoria - 36
108. Dowland - 33
108. Holst - 33
110. Glinka - 30
111. Enescu - 28
111. Poulenc - 28
113. Falla - 27
114. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 26
114. Takemitsu - 26
116. Bax - 25
116. Schumann, Clara - 25
118. Harbison - 23
119. Alwyn - 21
120. Schütz - 20
121. Alkan - 18
121. Brian - 18
121. Martinu - 18
121. Rodrigo - 18
121. Tveitt - 18
126. Liefs - 17
126. Piazzolla - 17
126. Xenakis - 17
129. Byrd - 16
129. Gombert - 16
129. Gorecki - 16
129. Lutoslawski - 16
129. Offenbach - 16
134. MacDowell - 15
135. Buxtehude - 14
135. Clementi - 14
135. Couperin - 14
135. Lalo - 14
135. Paganini - 14
135. Wohlfahrt - 14
141. Berio - 13
142. Hartmann - 12
143. Crumb - 11
143. Graun - 11
143. Henze - 11
146. Bernstein - 10
146. Rudland - 10
148. Beach - 9
148. Golijov - 9
148. Skalkottas - 9
151. Charpentier - 8
151. Schreker - 8
151. Zemlinsky - 8
151. Zimmerman - 8
155. Berwald - 7
155. Hasse - 7
155. Locatelli - 7
155. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
155. Wyschnegradsky - 7
160. Cage - 6
160. Carter - 6
160. Gabrieli - 6
160. Heinichen - 6
164. Abel - 5
164. Eberl - 5
164. Gubaidulina - 5
164. Sorabji - 5
164. Veress - 5
169. Albinoni - 4
169. Allegri - 4
169. Brouwer - 4
169. Ferneyhough - 4
173. Marcello - 3
173. Simpson - 3
175. Cherubini - 2
175. Danzi - 2
175. Torelli - 2
178. Krenek - 1
178. Meyerbeer - 1
178. Monti - 1
178. Strauss I, Johann - 1
182. Czerny - -3
183. Schobert - -10


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. D Scarlatti
7. Britten
6. Albeniz
5. Gluck
4. Rameau
3. Lully
2. Buxtehude
1. Biber


----------



## Very Senior Member

Rossini	+10	
Grieg	+9	
Janacek	+8	
D Scarlatti +7	
Britten	+6	
Weber	+5	
Delius	+4	
Walton	+3	
Holst	+2	
Bax	+1	
Schoenberg	-3


----------



## mmsbls

science said:


> And regardless, the point remains: Schoenberg is obviously hated with a fervency surpassing that of Wagner. Within the confines of this activity, evidently about three times as much. Your former whining was misplaced.


I think many of the people voting against composers simply felt that composer was rated too highly. Some seemed to feel that a particular composer should not be rated above another particular composer. I'm not sure how many (if any) people actually hate/dislike Messiaen, Schoenberg, or Wagner. I voted against a number of composers that I like (Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Shostakovich, Messiaen) because I thought they should be rated a bit lower.

I think everyone would probably place the composers in a different order than our vote, but in some sense I'm surprised there isn't more disagreement on the overall order. I've always felt it's interesting there's so much consensus on composers and works. This small selection of TC members seems to place composers quite close to most other polls/lists that I've seen (at least so far).

I do think it would be interesting to look in more detail at the positive and negative votes (What percentage of votes did composers receive from a single individual?, How many individuals voted for each composer?, Were negative votes for one composer correlated with negative votes with another composer? How many people feel that each composer was rated, say, more than 10 places from where they actually were rated?). It would probably be more interesting and informative if we had a larger sample size.


----------



## science

mmsbls said:


> I think many of the people voting against composers simply felt that composer was rated too highly. Some seemed to feel that a particular composer should not be rated above another particular composer. I'm not sure how many (if any) people actually hate/dislike Messiaen, Schoenberg, or Wagner. I voted against a number of composers that I like (Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Shostakovich, Messiaen) because I thought they should be rated a bit lower.
> 
> I think everyone would probably place the composers in a different order than our vote, but in some sense I'm surprised there isn't more disagreement on the overall order. I've always felt it's interesting there's so much consensus on composers and works. This small selection of TC members seems to place composers quite close to most other polls/lists that I've seen (at least so far).
> 
> I do think it would be interesting to look in more detail at the positive and negative votes (What percentage of votes did composers receive from a single individual?, How many individuals voted for each composer?, Were negative votes for one composer correlated with negative votes with another composer? How many people feel that each composer was rated, say, more than 10 places from where they actually were rated?). It would probably be more interesting and informative if we had a larger sample size.


This is true. So far the composer I've voted for most (93 points) is Fauré, followed by Brahms (83), Stravinsky (76), Schoenberg (65 so far), Shostakovich (60), Debussy (57). I only gave 13 points to Mozart and 17 to Beethoven, and only 1 to Tchaikovsky.

I don't think this even nearly reflects my own personal feeling about these composers' music, but it shows how my feelings compare with the rest of the participants. The abundance of my votes for Fauré, Brahms, and so on seem to mean is that I like them much more than most other people here do, and the scarcity of my votes for Beethoven, Mozart and so on doesn't mean that I don't like them, just that I always felt satisfied by how much points they had when I saw the scores - other people evidently like them more fervently than I do.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Rossini · 8
Lully · 7
Telemann · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Grieg · 2
Holst · 1

Roberto Blanco · -3


----------



## JAKE WYB

Bax + 10
Martinu + 9
Janacek +8
Ligeti + 7
Scriabin + 6
Grieg + 5
HOlst + 4
Lutoslawski +3
Borodin + 2
Rimsky + 1

Reich - 3


----------



## Arsakes

+ 10. Mussorgsky
9. Rimsky-Korsakov
8. Nielsen
7. Berwald
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. J. Strauss II
4. Glazunov
3. Grieg
2. Alfven
+ 1. Glinka

- 3. Schoenberg


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

So far the composer I've voted for most (93 points) is Fauré, followed by Brahms (83), Stravinsky (76), Schoenberg (65 so far), Shostakovich (60), Debussy (57). I only gave 13 points to Mozart and 17 to Beethoven, and only 1 to Tchaikovsky.

I don't think this even nearly reflects my own personal feeling about these composers' music, but it shows how my feelings compare with the rest of the participants. The abundance of my votes for Fauré, Brahms, and so on seem to mean is that I like them much more than most other people here do, and the scarcity of my votes for Beethoven, Mozart and so on doesn't mean that I don't like them, just that I always felt satisfied by how much points they had when I saw the scores - other people evidently like them more fervently than I do.

I think a great many of us voted with such a strategy in mind. Honestly, only my very first vote truly mirrors my true thoughts on the ranking of composers:

1. J.S. Bach- 10
2. W.A. Mozart- 9
3. Beethoven- 8
4. Wagner- 7
5. Handel- 6
6. Schubert- 5
7. Haydn- 4
8. Richard Strauss- 3
9. Brahms- 2
10. Mahler- 1

After that... I don't think I voted at all for Beethoven... and rarely, if ever, for Mahler of Brahms... all of whom had plenty of support from others. I even gave negative points for Brahms... not because I dislike him in the least... but because I felt Schubert and Wagner deserved to be rated higher. Member trout has voted 3 or 4 times in a row now for a negative three points for J.C. Bach. I can't imagine anyone truly hating J.C. Bach, so I assume his votes are in response to the fact that he feels another composer... perhaps close to J.C. Bach in the current standings... is more deserving.


----------



## Very Senior Member

mmsbls said:


> I think many of the people voting against composers simply felt that composer was rated too highly ....


 Yes of course. That explains all of my voting. It's hardly rocket science to work out that in a game like this the giving negative votes doesn't imply a disliking of a composer. I find it slightly curious how some of the people who have been most associated with making dubious assumptions about other members' preferences based on a literal interpretation of their votes are now sayiing how much they agree with your comment, and how they themselves have been been playing the "game" correctly, as if they believe the rest of us haven't.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	JC Bach
9.	Rimsky-Korsakov
8.	Palestrina
7.	Grieg
6.	Janáček
5.	Telemann
4.	Mussorgsky
3.	Bach, C.P.E.
2.	Copland
1.	Josquin

-3.	Schoenberg


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Barber - 9
Alfven - 8
Arnold -7
Novak - 6
Bax - 5
Grieg - 4
Janacek - 3
Machaut - 2
Liefs - 1


----------



## Cygnenoir

Messiaen - 10
Schoenberg - 9
Ligeti - 8
Grieg - 7
Reich - 6
Adams - 5
Penderecki - 4
Gershwin - 3
Pärt - 2
Crumb - 1


----------



## pjang23

10 Grieg
9 Palestrina
8 Josquin
7 Weber
6 Part
5 Machaut
4 Schobert
3 Berg
2 Scarlatti
1 Hummel
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Scarlatti is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky - 391
38. Grieg - 387
39. Messiaen - 381
39. Schoenberg - 381
41. Palestrina - 339
42. Bach, J.C. - 322
43. Nielsen - 319
44. Janáček - 316
45. Ligeti - 278
46. Barber - 276
46. Rossini - 276
48. Rimsky-Korsakov - 273
49. Berg - 270
49. Josquin - 270
51. Gluck - 256
52. Britten - 251
53. Webern - 243
54. Villa-Lobos - 242
55. Scriabin - 241
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 198
57. Rameau - 190
58. Satie - 185
59. Bizet - 164
60. Arnold - 137
61. Alfven - 135
62. Copland - 131
63. Adams - 128
64. Telemann - 124
65. Lully - 120
66. Glass - 116
66. Varèse - 116
68. Strauss II, Johann - 107
69. Weber - 105
70. Gesualdo - 102
70. Schnittke - 102
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
73. Reich - 89
73. Rott - 89
75. Pärt - 84
76. Respighi - 83
77. Ives - 82
78. Haydn, Michael - 79
79. Glazunov - 76
80. Novak - 74
81. Donizetti - 72
82. Borodin - 68
82. Hildegard - 68
84. Delius - 65
85. Boccherini - 63
85. Machaut - 63
87. Bellini - 62
88. Penderecki - 57
89. Albeniz - 54
90. Walton - 51
91. Franck - 49
92. Wolf - 48
93. Corelli - 47
93. Hummel - 47
93. Smetana - 47
96. Gershwin - 46
96. Medtner - 46
98. Biber - 44
98. Stockhausen - 44
98. Tallis - 44
101. Zelenka - 42
102. Bax - 41
102. Massenet - 41
104. Hindemith - 40
104. Holst - 40
104. Vogelweide - 40
107. Spohr - 38
108. Boulez - 37
109. Victoria - 36
110. Dowland - 33
111. Glinka - 31
112. Enescu - 28
112. Poulenc - 28
114. Falla - 27
114. Martinu - 27
116. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 26
116. Takemitsu - 26
118. Schumann, Clara - 25
119. Harbison - 23
120. Alwyn - 21
121. Schütz - 20
122. Lutoslawski - 19
123. Alkan - 18
123. Brian - 18
123. Liefs - 18
123. Rodrigo - 18
123. Tveitt - 18
128. Piazzolla - 17
128. Xenakis - 17
130. Buxtehude - 16
130. Byrd - 16
130. Gombert - 16
130. Gorecki - 16
130. Offenbach - 16
135. MacDowell - 15
136. Berwald - 14
136. Clementi - 14
136. Couperin - 14
136. Lalo - 14
136. Paganini - 14
136. Wohlfahrt - 14
142. Berio - 13
143. Crumb - 12
143. Hartmann - 12
145. Graun - 11
145. Henze - 11
147. Bernstein - 10
147. Rudland - 10
149. Beach - 9
149. Golijov - 9
149. Skalkottas - 9
152. Charpentier - 8
152. Schreker - 8
152. Zemlinsky - 8
152. Zimmerman - 8
156. Hasse - 7
156. Locatelli - 7
156. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
156. Wyschnegradsky - 7
160. Carter - 6
160. Gabrieli - 6
160. Heinichen - 6
163. Abel - 5
163. Eberl - 5
163. Gubaidulina - 5
163. Sorabji - 5
163. Veress - 5
168. Albinoni - 4
168. Allegri - 4
168. Brouwer - 4
168. Ferneyhough - 4
172. Cage - 3
172. Marcello - 3
172. Simpson - 3
175. Cherubini - 2
175. Danzi - 2
175. Torelli - 2
178. Krenek - 1
178. Meyerbeer - 1
178. Monti - 1
178. Strauss I, Johann - 1
182. Czerny - -3
183. Schobert - -6


----------



## tdc

mmsbls said:


> 10.	*JC Bach*
> 9.	Rimsky-Korsakov
> 8.	Palestrina
> 7.	Grieg
> 6.	Janáček
> 5.	Telemann
> 4.	Mussorgsky
> 3.	Bach, C.P.E.
> 2.	Copland
> 1.	Josquin
> 
> -3.	Schoenberg


I can't help but notice J.C. Bach getting a surprising amount of support here, I'm wondering did people always rate him so highly? Before this thread I scarcely heard his name brought up on the forum, and in 'The Classical Music Project' I noticed by 600 works enshrined, not one work is by J.C. Bach, I don't believe the same thing can be said for any other composer in the top 50.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

tdc said:


> I can't help but notice J.C. Bach getting a surprising amount of support here, I'm wondering did people always rate him so highly? Before this thread I scarcely heard his name brought up on the forum, and in 'The Classical Music Project' I noticed by 600 works enshrined, not one work is by J.C. Bach, I don't believe the same thing can be said for any other composer in the top 50.


I was amongst the first (I think) to "promote" JC Bach. I simply posted a few clips and let the quality of the music and fellow listeners and members decide for themselves. Simple as that. His music is often overshadowed by other giants of the galant idiom. After introducing his music to other classical music listeners in real life who enjoy music from the Classical period, folks have always responded similarly and wanting more of his music. That's my experience anyway.

JC Bach = +10 
CPE Bach = +9
Michael Haydn = +8
Hummel = +7
Carl Stamitz = +6
Albinoni = +5
Hasse = +4
Graun = +3
Spohr = +2
Alessandro Scarlatti = +1

Schoenberg = -3


----------



## science

10 Schoenberg 
9 Strauss, J II
8 Franck 
7 Machaut
6 Ives
5 Janacek 
4 Boccherini 
3 Tallis
2 Enescu 
1 Piazzolla
-3 JC Bach


----------



## Rapide

10 Bax 
9 Piazzolla
8 C.P.E. bach
7 Gorecki
6 Smetana
5 Boulez
4 Borodin
3 Rossini
2 Boccherini
1 Beach
-3 Schoenberg


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Rossini
9 Barber
8 Britten
7 Adams
6 Messiaen
5 Gershwin
4 Weber
3 Rameau
2 Couperin
1. Schoenberg


----------



## mmsbls

tdc said:


> I can't help but notice J.C. Bach getting a surprising amount of support here, I'm wondering did people always rate him so highly? Before this thread I scarcely heard his name brought up on the forum, and in 'The Classical Music Project' I noticed by 600 works enshrined, not one work is by J.C. Bach, I don't believe the same thing can be said for any other composer in the top 50.


I'm not sure if he has ever been rated highly in other polls. I would not have rated him very high a year ago, but in that time I have listened to a lot of his symphonies, concertos, and especially Sinfonia Concertantes. I always thought of CPE Bach, for example, as by far the second best Bach, but now my view has definitely changed. You may certainly be correct that all the conventional top 50 composers have works in 'The Classical Music Project', and possibly at some other time I would not put him this high. For now I feel he deserves a top 50 position. Looking at the present voting, I probably will lower him just a bit in my voting.


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen - 10
Mussorgsky - 9 (He should be in now)
Schoenberg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Hildegarde - 6

Grieg -3 (He's a bit overrated in my opinion and has seen a recent jump in the polls )


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Mussorgsky is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Messiaen - 397
39. Schoenberg - 394
40. Grieg - 384
41. Palestrina - 339
42. Bach, J.C. - 329
43. Janáček - 321
44. Nielsen - 319
45. Rossini - 289
46. Barber - 285
46. Ligeti - 285
48. Rimsky-Korsakov - 273
49. Berg - 270
49. Josquin - 270
51. Britten - 259
52. Gluck - 256
53. Webern - 243
54. Villa-Lobos - 242
55. Scriabin - 241
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 215
57. Rameau - 193
58. Satie - 185
59. Bizet - 164
60. Arnold - 137
61. Adams - 135
61. Alfven - 135
63. Copland - 131
64. Telemann - 124
65. Lully - 120
66. Glass - 116
66. Strauss II, Johann - 116
66. Varèse - 116
69. Weber - 109
70. Gesualdo - 102
70. Schnittke - 102
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
73. Reich - 89
73. Rott - 89
75. Ives - 88
76. Haydn, Michael - 87
77. Pärt - 84
78. Respighi - 83
79. Glazunov - 76
80. Hildegard - 74
80. Novak - 74
82. Borodin - 72
82. Donizetti - 72
84. Machaut - 70
85. Boccherini - 69
86. Delius - 65
87. Bellini - 62
88. Franck - 57
88. Penderecki - 57
90. Albeniz - 54
90. Hummel - 54
92. Smetana - 53
93. Bax - 51
93. Gershwin - 51
93. Walton - 51
96. Wolf - 48
97. Corelli - 47
97. Tallis - 47
99. Medtner - 46
100. Biber - 44
100. Stockhausen - 44
102. Boulez - 42
102. Zelenka - 42
104. Massenet - 41
105. Hindemith - 40
105. Holst - 40
105. Spohr - 40
105. Vogelweide - 40
109. Victoria - 36
110. Dowland - 33
111. Glinka - 31
112. Enescu - 30
113. Poulenc - 28
114. Falla - 27
114. Martinu - 27
114. Piazzolla - 27
114. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 27
118. Takemitsu - 26
119. Schumann, Clara - 25
120. Gorecki - 23
120. Harbison - 23
122. Alwyn - 21
123. Schütz - 20
124. Lutoslawski - 19
125. Alkan - 18
125. Brian - 18
125. Liefs - 18
125. Rodrigo - 18
125. Tveitt - 18
130. Xenakis - 17
131. Buxtehude - 16
131. Byrd - 16
131. Couperin - 16
131. Gombert - 16
131. Offenbach - 16
136. MacDowell - 15
137. Berwald - 14
137. Clementi - 14
137. Graun - 14
137. Lalo - 14
137. Paganini - 14
137. Wohlfahrt - 14
143. Berio - 13
144. Crumb - 12
144. Hartmann - 12
146. Hasse - 11
146. Henze - 11
148. Beach - 10
148. Bernstein - 10
148. Rudland - 10
151. Albinoni - 9
151. Golijov - 9
151. Skalkottas - 9
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
161. Carter - 6
161. Gabrieli - 6
161. Heinichen - 6
161. Stamitz - 6
165. Abel - 5
165. Eberl - 5
165. Gubaidulina - 5
165. Sorabji - 5
165. Veress - 5
170. Allegri - 4
170. Brouwer - 4
170. Ferneyhough - 4
173. Cage - 3
173. Marcello - 3
173. Simpson - 3
176. Cherubini - 2
176. Danzi - 2
176. Torelli - 2
179. Krenek - 1
179. Meyerbeer - 1
179. Monti - 1
179. Strauss I, Johann - 1
183. Czerny - -3
184. Schobert - -6


----------



## science

I'd diagnose it as our way of being idiosyncratic this time. No way the average assembly if classical music fans put JCB in the top 50, but they would - being typical classical music fans - feel the need to do _something_ idiosyncratic, and this is what we've decided to do this time.

In other contexts I'd consider this behavior rude to curious novices, a blatant manifestation of snobbishness. In this case I have every reason to hope that no curious newcomer to classical music takes this seriously, so it doesn't matter to me.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Nice "result" so far. Some of us manage to slow down Messiaen and Arnie Schoenberg, and progressing Rachmaninoff, Puccini, Purcell and Domenico Scarlatti ahead of them. As it should ...


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Palestrina
7 Webern
6 Schoenberg (finally in)
5 Ives
4 Tallis
3 Machaut
2 Byrd
1 Varese

-3 JC Bach


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

tdc- I can't help but notice J.C. Bach getting a surprising amount of support here, I'm wondering did people always rate him so highly? Before this thread I scarcely heard his name brought up on the forum, and in 'The Classical Music Project' I noticed by 600 works enshrined, not one work is by J.C. Bach, I don't believe the same thing can be said for any other composer in the top 50.

HarpsichordConcerto- I was amongst the first (I think) to "promote" JC Bach. I simply posted a few clips and let the quality of the music and fellow listeners and members decide for themselves. Simple as that. His music is often overshadowed by other giants of the galant idiom. After introducing his music to other classical music listeners in real life who enjoy music from the Classical period, folks have always responded similarly and wanting more of his music. That's my experience anyway.

I first came upon J.C. Bach quite by accident. A couple of years ago, while in the throws of a Baroque obsession, I picked up the latest disc by one of my favorite singers, the countertenor, Philippe Jaroussky:










Not paying close attention, I thought the disc was a collection of arias by J.S. Bach. As I was listening to the disc I was immediately struck by how "classical"... almost "Mozartian" the arias were. Looking again at the disc I realized my error... and yet I was very much enthralled with what I heard. The opera music that follows Handel... yet precedes Mozart is a filed only recently being afforded serious consideration. Almost all of Gluck's operas are now available in quality recordings... and there is little doubt that he deserves his historical position... he's damn good. And so is J.C. Bach. Chandos, Harmonia Mundi and Cpo have all released some marvelous recordings of Johann Christian's music. Personally, I'm awaiting more of his vocal music.

I might note, while speaking on J.C. Bach that Scarlatti senior... Alessandro Scarlatti, is another composer who has recently risen quite a bit in the esteem of those who follow Baroque music as the result of the release of any number of recordings of his madrigals, cantatas, religious choral music, and opera arias. Whereas 10 years ago, if you spoke of "Scarlatti" it was clearly Domenico that was being referred to... today this isn't so obvious for the very reason that Domenico may no longer be so clearly the "great Scarlatti".


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I'd diagnose it as our way of being idiosyncratic this time. No way the average assembly if classical music fans put JCB in the top 50, but they would - being typical classical music fans - feel the need to do something idiosyncratic, and this is what we've decided to do this time.

In other contexts I'd consider this behavior rude to curious novices, a blatant manifestation of snobbishness. In this case I have every reason to hope that no curious newcomer to classical music takes this seriously, so it doesn't matter to me.

Is J.C. Bach in the top 50 really any more idiosyncratic than Messiaen nearly in the top 40... and virtually as the result of a single voter? I mean Messiaen nearly got in above Schoenberg... and he will be in ahead of Berg, Webern, Britten among other Modernists... to say nothing of Rameau, Rossini, Gluck, Biber, Zelenka, Palestrina, Josquin, Strauss II, Bizet, etc... Seriously... I don't think the list as a whole is at all a bad introduction for newcomers to classical music.


----------



## Arsakes

10. Grieg
9 Rimskey-Korsakov
8 Nielsen
7 Strauss II, Johann
6 Ippolitov-Ivanov
5 Glazunov
4 Smetana
3 Glinka
2 Borodin
1 Janáček

- 3 Ligeti (his piano concerto was awful!)


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. Britten
7. Schnittke
6. Gluck
5. Rameau
4. Copland
3. Lully
2. Albeniz
1. Ives


----------



## Arsakes

10. Grieg
9 Rimskey-Korsakov
8 Nielsen
7 Strauss II, Johann
6 Ippolitov-Ivanov
5 Glazunov
4 Smetana
3 Glinka
2 Borodin
1 Janáček

- 3 Ligeti (his piano concerto was awful!)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Johann Strauss II +10
2. Gluck +9
3. Britten +8
4. Grieg +7 (Locked in at no. 39)
5. Rimsky-Korsakov +6
6. J.C. Bach +5
7. Bellini +4
8. Donizetti +3
9. Biber +2
10. Zelenka +1

Ligeti -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Schoenberg and Grieg are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Messiaen - 397
41. Palestrina - 347
42. Bach, J.C. - 332
43. Janáček - 331
44. Nielsen - 327
45. Rimsky-Korsakov - 289
45. Rossini - 289
47. Barber - 285
48. Josquin - 280
49. Ligeti - 279
50. Britten - 275
51. Gluck - 271
52. Berg - 270
53. Villa-Lobos - 252
54. Webern - 250
55. Scriabin - 241
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 215
57. Rameau - 198
58. Satie - 185
59. Bizet - 164
60. Copland - 144
61. Arnold - 137
62. Adams - 135
62. Alfven - 135
64. Strauss II, Johann - 126
65. Telemann - 124
66. Lully - 123
67. Varèse - 117
68. Glass - 116
69. Schnittke - 109
69. Weber - 109
71. Gesualdo - 102
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 97
73. Ives - 94
74. Reich - 89
74. Rott - 89
76. Haydn, Michael - 87
77. Pärt - 84
78. Respighi - 83
79. Glazunov - 81
80. Donizetti - 76
81. Borodin - 74
81. Hildegard - 74
81. Novak - 74
84. Machaut - 73
85. Boccherini - 69
86. Bellini - 67
87. Delius - 65
88. Franck - 57
88. Penderecki - 57
88. Smetana - 57
91. Albeniz - 56
92. Hummel - 54
93. Bax - 51
93. Gershwin - 51
93. Tallis - 51
93. Walton - 51
97. Wolf - 48
98. Corelli - 47
99. Biber - 46
99. Medtner - 46
101. Stockhausen - 44
102. Zelenka - 43
103. Boulez - 42
104. Massenet - 41
105. Hindemith - 40
105. Holst - 40
105. Spohr - 40
105. Vogelweide - 40
109. Victoria - 36
110. Glinka - 34
111. Dowland - 33
112. Enescu - 30
113. Poulenc - 28
114. Falla - 27
114. Martinu - 27
114. Piazzolla - 27
114. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 27
118. Takemitsu - 26
119. Schumann, Clara - 25
120. Gorecki - 23
120. Harbison - 23
122. Alwyn - 21
123. Schütz - 20
124. Lutoslawski - 19
125. Alkan - 18
125. Brian - 18
125. Byrd - 18
125. Liefs - 18
125. Rodrigo - 18
125. Tveitt - 18
131. Xenakis - 17
132. Buxtehude - 16
132. Couperin - 16
132. Gombert - 16
132. Offenbach - 16
136. MacDowell - 15
137. Berwald - 14
137. Clementi - 14
137. Graun - 14
137. Lalo - 14
137. Paganini - 14
137. Wohlfahrt - 14
143. Berio - 13
144. Crumb - 12
144. Hartmann - 12
146. Hasse - 11
146. Henze - 11
148. Beach - 10
148. Bernstein - 10
148. Rudland - 10
151. Albinoni - 9
151. Golijov - 9
151. Skalkottas - 9
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
161. Carter - 6
161. Gabrieli - 6
161. Heinichen - 6
161. Stamitz - 6
165. Abel - 5
165. Eberl - 5
165. Gubaidulina - 5
165. Sorabji - 5
165. Veress - 5
170. Allegri - 4
170. Brouwer - 4
170. Ferneyhough - 4
173. Cage - 3
173. Marcello - 3
173. Simpson - 3
176. Cherubini - 2
176. Danzi - 2
176. Torelli - 2
179. Krenek - 1
179. Meyerbeer - 1
179. Monti - 1
179. Strauss I, Johann - 1
183. Czerny - -3
184. Schobert - -6


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I'd diagnose it as our way of being idiosyncratic this time. No way the average assembly if classical music fans put JCB in the top 50, but they would - being typical classical music fans - feel the need to do something idiosyncratic, and this is what we've decided to do this time.
> 
> In other contexts I'd consider this behavior rude to curious novices, a blatant manifestation of snobbishness. In this case I have every reason to hope that no curious newcomer to classical music takes this seriously, so it doesn't matter to me.
> 
> Is J.C. Bach in the top 50 really any more idiosyncratic than Messiaen nearly in the top 40... and virtually as the result of a single voter? I mean Messiaen nearly got in above Schoenberg... and he will be in ahead of Berg, Webern, Britten among other Modernists... to say nothing of Rameau, Rossini, Gluck, Biber, Zelenka, Palestrina, Josquin, Strauss II, Bizet, etc... Seriously... I don't think the list as a whole is at all a bad introduction for newcomers to classical music.


I do, but I have almost impossibly high and precise ideals.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Given the strong competition from many others, I’m afraid that I don’t regard “London” Bach as being a top 50 composer. Placing him well ahead of C P E Bach, who is normally more highly rated, would look especially bizarre. Hence my negative vote for J C Bach, not that I dislike his music in any way. 

Rameau	+10	
Rossini	+9	
Britten	+8	
Delius	+7	
Bax	+6	
Josquin Des Prez +5	
Telemann	+4	
Weber	+3	
Janacek	+2	
C P E Bach	+1	
J C Bach	-3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rossini · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Corelli · 2
Holst · 1

Franz Blasebalg · -3


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Barber - 9 
Arnold - 8
Alfven - 7
Bizet - 6
Machaut - 5
Massenet - 4
Novak - 3
Alwyn - 2
Liefs - 1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

_Seriously... I don't think the list as a whole is at all a bad introduction for newcomers to classical music_.

I do, but I have almost impossibly high and precise ideals.

So which composers in the Top 40 here are so grossly out of place... and which ones are missing?


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Given the strong competition from many others, I'm afraid that I don't regard "London" Bach as being a top 50 composer. Placing him well ahead of C P E Bach, who is normally more highly rated, would look especially bizarre. Hence my negative vote for J C Bach, not that I dislike his music in any way.

If I find any problem at all with these lists it is that they are grossly skewed in favor of the composers from the 19th and 20th centuries... as if these represent the ideal that all earlier eras fell short of. Look at our Top-40 as it stands:

1. Bach- 18th c.
2. Mozart -18th c.
3. Beethoven- late 18th/19th c.
4. Schubert- 19th c.
5. Brahms- 19th c.
6. Wagner- 19th c.
7. Haydn- 18th c. 
8. Schumann- 19th c.
9. Handel- 18th c.
10. Mahler- late 19th/20th c.
11. Mendelssohn- 19th c.
12. Debussy- late 19h/20th c.
13. Dvořák- 19th c.
14. Chopin- 19th c.
15. Tchaikovsky- 19th c.
16. Stravinsky- 20th c.
17. Ravel- late 19th/20th c.
18. Prokofiev- 20th c.
19. Shostakovich- 20th c.
20. Strauss, Richard- late 19/20th c.
21. Liszt- 19th c.
22. Bartók- 19th c.
23. Verdi- 19th c.
24. Monteverdi- late 16th/17th c.
25. Sibelius- late 19th/20th c.
26. Vivaldi- 18th c.
27. Berlioz- 19th c.
28. Bruckner- 19th c.
29. Saint-Saëns- late 19th/20th c.
30. Elgar- late 19th/20th c.
31. Fauré- late 19th/20th c.
32. Vaughan Williams- 20th c.
33. Rachmaninoff- 20th c.
34. Puccini- late 19th/20th c.
35. Purcell- 17th c.
36. Scarlatti, Domenico- late 17th/18th c.
37. Mussorgsky- 19th c.
38. Schoenberg- 20th c.
39. Grieg- 19th c.
40. Messiaen - 397 -20th c.

The few composers who fall outside the range of the 19th and 20th centuries... (and one might note that of the 20th century, none of the composers come from the second half)... nearly all of them are so clearly central (Bach, Handel, Haydn, Monteverdi...) that they could not possibly be ignored. But does this really represent a view of the greatest composers in music history? Only a whole 8 composers who fall outside the range of 1800-1940?

I know for a fact that no survey of Western art history would be absolutely dominated by the art of a single century and a half. Even if we began our survey with the middle ages, there would be many names from nearly every era:

*The Middle Ages*:

Giselbertus
Master of Vézelay
The Limbourg brothers
Cimabue
Andrei Rublev

As well as dozens of anonymous artists known solely for their creations (the Book or Kells, etc...)

*Renaissance:*

Giotto
Leonardo
Donatello
Botticelli
Michelangelo
Titian 
Durer
Veronese
etc...

*Baroque:*

Rembrandt
Caravaggio
Rubens
Vermeer
Velazquez
Bernini
etc...

*Rococo:*

Canaletto
Boucher
Fragonard
Watteau
Chardin
Gainsborough
etc...

The same would be true of any serious survey of literature. But here we have an image of the greatest music in history wholly dominated by a period of a century and a half. Not a single Medieval composer has been recognized. Not a single Renaissance composer... unless we count Monteverdi. And yet there are complaints that placing J.C. Bach in the top 50 as opposed to what?... another 19th century composer?... would amount to some great perversion. Then what of Zelenka? Gesualdo? Josquin? Perotin? Hildegard? Buxtehude? Schutz? Biber? One of the other Bach boys?


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Rimsky-Korsakov
9.	Palestrina
8.	Janáček
7.	JC Bach
6.	Telemann
5.	Mussorgsky
4.	Bach, C.P.E.
3.	Copland
2.	Josquin
1. Rossini


----------



## pjang23

10 Palestrina
9 Josquin
8 Berg
7 Machaut
6 Part
5 Barber
4 Rimsky-Korsakov
3 CPE Bach
2 Hummel
1 Weber
-3 Messiaen

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Mussorgsky
32. Vaughan Williams
34. Rachmaninoff
35. Puccini
36. Purcell
37. Scarlatti, Domenico
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Messiaen - 394
41. Palestrina - 366
42. Janáček - 341
43. Nielsen - 337
44. Bach, J.C. - 336
45. Rossini - 305
46. Rimsky-Korsakov - 303
47. Barber - 299
48. Josquin - 296
49. Britten - 283
50. Ligeti - 279
51. Berg - 278
52. Gluck - 271
53. Villa-Lobos - 252
54. Webern - 250
55. Scriabin - 241
56. Bach, C.P.E. - 223
57. Rameau - 208
58. Satie - 195
59. Bizet - 170
60. Copland - 147
61. Arnold - 145
62. Alfven - 142
63. Telemann - 141
64. Adams - 135
65. Lully - 131
66. Strauss II, Johann - 126
67. Varèse - 117
68. Glass - 116
69. Weber - 113
70. Schnittke - 109
71. Gesualdo - 102
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 97
73. Ives - 94
73. Rott - 94
75. Respighi - 92
76. Pärt - 90
77. Reich - 89
78. Haydn, Michael - 87
79. Machaut - 85
80. Glazunov - 81
81. Novak - 77
82. Donizetti - 76
83. Borodin - 74
83. Hildegard - 74
85. Delius - 72
86. Boccherini - 69
87. Bellini - 67
88. Bax - 57
88. Franck - 57
88. Penderecki - 57
88. Smetana - 57
92. Albeniz - 56
92. Hummel - 56
94. Wolf - 52
95. Gershwin - 51
95. Tallis - 51
95. Walton - 51
98. Corelli - 49
99. Biber - 46
99. Medtner - 46
101. Massenet - 45
102. Stockhausen - 44
103. Vogelweide - 43
103. Zelenka - 43
105. Boulez - 42
106. Holst - 41
107. Hindemith - 40
107. Spohr - 40
109. Victoria - 36
110. Glinka - 34
111. Dowland - 33
112. Enescu - 30
113. Poulenc - 28
114. Falla - 27
114. Martinu - 27
114. Piazzolla - 27
114. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 27
118. Takemitsu - 26
119. Schumann, Clara - 25
120. Alwyn - 23
120. Gorecki - 23
120. Harbison - 23
123. Schütz - 20
124. Leifs - 19
124. Lutoslawski - 19
126. Alkan - 18
126. Brian - 18
126. Byrd - 18
126. Rodrigo - 18
126. Tveitt - 18
131. Xenakis - 17
132. Buxtehude - 16
132. Couperin - 16
132. Gombert - 16
132. Offenbach - 16
136. MacDowell - 15
137. Berwald - 14
137. Clementi - 14
137. Graun - 14
137. Lalo - 14
137. Paganini - 14
137. Wohlfahrt - 14
143. Berio - 13
144. Crumb - 12
144. Hartmann - 12
146. Hasse - 11
146. Henze - 11
148. Beach - 10
148. Bernstein - 10
148. Rudland - 10
151. Albinoni - 9
151. Golijov - 9
151. Skalkottas - 9
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
161. Carter - 6
161. Gabrieli - 6
161. Heinichen - 6
161. Stamitz - 6
165. Abel - 5
165. Eberl - 5
165. Gubaidulina - 5
165. Sorabji - 5
165. Veress - 5
170. Allegri - 4
170. Brouwer - 4
170. Ferneyhough - 4
173. Cage - 3
173. Marcello - 3
173. Simpson - 3
176. Cherubini - 2
176. Danzi - 2
176. Torelli - 2
179. Krenek - 1
179. Meyerbeer - 1
179. Monti - 1
179. Strauss I, Johann - 1
183. Czerny - -3
184. Schobert - -6


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Palestrina
9 - Bizet
8 - C.P.E. Bach
7 - Weber
7 - Britten
6 - Glass
5 - Satie
4 - Lully
3 - Scriabin
2 - Poulenc
1 - Reich

-3 - Messiaen (He's too high in my opinion, sorry CJP)


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Palestrina = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Gluck = +8
Hummel = +7
JC Bach = +6
CPE Bach = +5
Boccherini = +4
Alessandro Scarlatti = +3
Marcello = +2
Albinoni = +1

Messiaen = -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Rossini
9 Barber
8. Britten
7. Johann Strauss II
6. Messiaen
5. Adams
4. Rameau
3. Weber
2. Gershwin
1. Glass


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Palestrina
7 Tallis
6 Hindemith
5 Holst
4 Byrd
3 Paganini
2 Borodin
1 Ives

-3 JC Bach


----------



## pjang23

StevenOBrien said:


> 10 - Palestrina
> 9 - Bizet
> 8 - C.P.E. Bach
> 7 - Weber
> *7 - Britten*
> 6 - Glass
> 5 - Satie
> 4 - Lully
> 3 - Scriabin
> 2 - Poulenc
> 1 - Reich
> 
> -3 - Messiaen (He's too high in my opinion, sorry CJP)


I've shifted the votes down to 6 - Britten and 1 - Poulenc.


----------



## science

10 Janacek
9 Bernstein 
8 Lalo
7 Paganini
6 Offenbach 
5 Messiaen 
4 Cage 
3 Golijov 
2 Clementi 
1 Albinoni
-3 Schobert


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. Britten
7. Berg
6. Lully
5. Rameau
4. Webern
3. Copland
2. Ives
1. Rodrigo


----------



## tdc

I think this list is turning out pretty decent. Influenced by my own personal tastes I think Elgar, Saint-Saens, Mussorgsky, J.C. Bach, RVW, Messiaen and Ligeti, seem a little too high. Switch Debussy with Brahms, Ravel with Schumann (then bump Schumann up by switching him with Dvorak), switch Bartok and Mahler, switch Monteverdi with Handel. Add a couple earlier composers from Renaissance (ie - Josquin) and Baroque (Ie- Lully and Rameau) into the higher slots occupied by composers such as Elgar etc. Switch Messiaen with Schnittke, and Ligeti out for any number of other modern composers and that would be pretty close to my ideal top 50.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
2. Rimsky-Korsakov +9
3. Gesualdo +8
4. Josquin +7
5. Palestrina +6 (He should be in with 400)
6. Britten +5
7. Rameau +4
8. Biber +3
9. Alessandro Scarlatti +2
10. Johann Strauss II +1

Messiaen -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

pjang23 said:


> I've shifted the votes down to 6 - Britten and 1 - Poulenc.


Oops, sorry about that.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Gesualdo
9 CPE
8 Medtner
7 Martinu
6 Weber

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## Turangalîla

StevenOBrien said:


> 10 - Palestrina
> 9 - Bizet
> 8 - C.P.E. Bach
> 7 - Weber
> 7 - Britten
> 6 - Glass
> 5 - Satie
> 4 - Lully
> 3 - Scriabin
> 2 - Poulenc
> 1 - Reich
> 
> -3 - Messiaen (He's too high in my opinion, sorry CJP)


That's okay Steven . I don't mind people voting against him if they think he's too high. I'm just glad that you decided that for yourself and didn't start an anti-Messiaen revolt . That being said...

Messiaen - 4

He has 400 now. (And if either crmoorhead or science gave him _one measly point_ more, he would have been at 400 a long time ago and beat Palestrina. That's okay, though, because I think that Palestrina was also too lowly ranked.)


----------



## Very Senior Member

Is voting going to finish once we reach position No 50, and if so will the final list show positions beyond 50? This is important because it would affect the way people vote for those further down the list at present. For example, I can't see Victoria getting into the to 50 but he might get into the top 100. If, however, we aren't going to show results above No 50 then there's no point voting for him. I would favour stop voting once position No 50 is sealed, and then show the results up to 100, but not beyond.


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Palestrina and Messiaen are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček - 360
43. Bach, J.C. - 339
44. Nielsen - 337
45. Rossini - 315
46. Josquin - 313
47. Rimsky-Korsakov - 312
48. Britten - 310
49. Barber - 308
50. Gluck - 289
51. Berg - 285
52. Ligeti - 279
53. Villa-Lobos - 262
54. Webern - 254
55. Bach, C.P.E. - 245
56. Scriabin - 243
57. Rameau - 221
58. Satie - 199
59. Bizet - 179
60. Copland - 159
61. Arnold - 145
62. Alfven - 142
63. Telemann - 141
64. Adams - 140
64. Lully - 140
66. Strauss II, Johann - 134
67. Weber - 129
68. Glass - 122
69. Gesualdo - 120
70. Varèse - 117
71. Schnittke - 109
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 97
72. Ives - 97
74. Rott - 94
75. Haydn, Michael - 93
76. Respighi - 92
77. Pärt - 90
78. Reich - 89
79. Machaut - 85
80. Glazunov - 81
81. Novak - 77
82. Borodin - 76
82. Donizetti - 76
84. Hildegard - 74
85. Boccherini - 73
86. Delius - 72
87. Bellini - 67
88. Hummel - 63
89. Tallis - 58
90. Bax - 57
90. Franck - 57
90. Penderecki - 57
90. Smetana - 57
94. Albeniz - 56
95. Medtner - 54
96. Gershwin - 53
97. Wolf - 52
98. Walton - 51
99. Biber - 49
99. Corelli - 49
101. Hindemith - 46
101. Holst - 46
103. Massenet - 45
104. Stockhausen - 44
105. Vogelweide - 43
105. Zelenka - 43
107. Boulez - 42
108. Spohr - 40
109. Victoria - 36
110. Glinka - 34
110. Martinu - 34
112. Dowland - 33
113. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 32
114. Enescu - 30
115. Poulenc - 29
116. Falla - 27
116. Piazzolla - 27
118. Takemitsu - 26
119. Schumann, Clara - 25
120. Paganini - 24
121. Alwyn - 23
121. Gorecki - 23
121. Harbison - 23
124. Byrd - 22
124. Lalo - 22
124. Offenbach - 22
127. Schütz - 20
128. Bernstein - 19
128. Leifs - 19
128. Lutoslawski - 19
128. Rodrigo - 19
132. Alkan - 18
132. Brian - 18
132. Tveitt - 18
135. Xenakis - 17
136. Buxtehude - 16
136. Clementi - 16
136. Couperin - 16
136. Gombert - 16
140. MacDowell - 15
141. Berwald - 14
141. Graun - 14
141. Wohlfahrt - 14
144. Berio - 13
145. Crumb - 12
145. Golijov - 12
145. Hartmann - 12
148. Albinoni - 11
148. Hasse - 11
148. Henze - 11
151. Beach - 10
151. Rudland - 10
153. Skalkottas - 9
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Cage - 7
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
162. Carter - 6
162. Gabrieli - 6
162. Heinichen - 6
162. Stamitz - 6
166. Abel - 5
166. Eberl - 5
166. Gubaidulina - 5
166. Marcello - 5
166. Sorabji - 5
166. Veress - 5
172. Allegri - 4
172. Brouwer - 4
172. Ferneyhough - 4
175. Simpson - 3
176. Cherubini - 2
176. Danzi - 2
176. Torelli - 2
179. Krenek - 1
179. Meyerbeer - 1
179. Monti - 1
179. Strauss I, Johann - 1
183. Czerny - -3
184. Schobert - -9


----------



## StevenOBrien

So, are we going to drop the threshold again to 350 or 300 sometime soon?


----------



## Very Senior Member

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Messiaen - 4 He has 400 now.


 I count 396, and after your vote 392. The last tally was 394, then we had -3, -3, +6, +5, -3 = 396.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Rossini · 7
Telemann · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Smetana · 2
Holst · 1

Fritz Müller · -3


----------



## Conor71

8 Messiaen


----------



## Arsakes

10. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Glazunov
7. Strauss II, Johann
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Nielsen
4. Smetana
3. Glinka
2. Barber
1. Britten

- 3 Bach, J.C.


----------



## Rapide

Villa-Lobos 10
Rossini 9
Boulez 8
Skalkottas 7
Smetana 6
Albinoi 5
Gorecki 4
Piazzolla 3
Hartmann 2
Haydn, M 1

Nielsen -3


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10


----------



## Very Senior Member

Rameau	+10	
Janacek	+9	
Britten	+8	
Delius	+7	
Bax	+6	
Josquin Des Prez +5	
Telemann	+4	
C P E Bach	+3	
Rossini	+2	
Weber	+1	
J C Bach	-3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Rimsky-Korsakov
9.	Grieg
8.	Janáček
7.	JC Bach
6.	Telemann
5.	Mussorgsky
4.	Bach, C.P.E.
3.	Copland
2.	Josquin
1.	Bizet


----------



## Turangalîla

Very Senior Member said:


> I count 396, and after your vote 392. The last tally was 394, then we had -3, -3, +6, +5, -3 = 396.


My vote was +4, not -4! He had 396 before I gave that vote, so yes, he is in.
Did you really think that after all my Messiaen campaigning I would vote _against_ him???


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Barber - 9 
Arnold - 8
Alfven - 7
Bizet - 6
Machaut - 5
Massenet - 4
Novak - 3
Alwyn - 2
Liefs - 1


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

JC Bach = +10
CPE Bach = +9
Michael Haydn = +8
Rossini = +7
Gluck = +6
Donizetti = +5
Rameau = +4
Telemann = +3
Lully = +2
François Couperin = +1

Nielsen = -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Reich - 9
Adams - 8
Glass - 7
Penderecki - 6
Gershwin - 5
Pärt - 4
Crumb - 3
Brian - 2
Britten - 1


----------



## Very Senior Member

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> My vote was +4, not -4! He had 396 before I gave that vote, so yes, he is in. Did you really think that after all my Messiaen campaigning I would vote _against_ him???


 Clearly not because one cannot give minus 4.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Let me see...

Me + 10
You -10
This thread - 


Martin, dumb


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Berg
9 Gesualdo


----------



## pjang23

mmsbls said:


> 10.	Rimsky-Korsakov
> *9.	Grieg*
> 8.	Janáček
> 7.	JC Bach
> 6.	Telemann
> *5.	Mussorgsky*
> 4.	Bach, C.P.E.
> 3.	Copland
> 2.	Josquin
> 1.	Bizet


Both are in.


----------



## pjang23

10 Josquin
9 Machaut
8 Berg
7 Gluck
6 Hummel
5 Rimsky-Korsakov
4 Perotin
3 Part
2 CPE Bach
1 Weber
-3 Cage

Current Standings:

*Shall we continue past 50? I think it'll be doable if we lower the cut-off at some point, but going past 50 does mean longer daily commitments for voters.*

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček - 377
43. Bach, J.C. - 350
44. Nielsen - 346
45. Rossini - 340
46. Rimsky-Korsakov - 337
47. Josquin - 330
48. Britten - 320
49. Barber - 319
50. Berg - 303
51. Gluck - 302
52. Ligeti - 289
53. Villa-Lobos - 272
54. Bach, C.P.E. - 263
55. Webern - 254
56. Scriabin - 253
57. Rameau - 235
58. Satie - 209
59. Bizet - 186
60. Copland - 162
61. Telemann - 160
62. Arnold - 153
63. Lully - 150
64. Alfven - 149
65. Adams - 148
66. Strauss II, Johann - 141
67. Weber - 131
68. Gesualdo - 129
68. Glass - 129
70. Varèse - 117
71. Schnittke - 109
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 103
73. Haydn, Michael - 102
74. Respighi - 101
75. Machaut - 99
75. Rott - 99
77. Reich - 98
78. Ives - 97
78. Pärt - 97
80. Glazunov - 90
81. Donizetti - 81
82. Novak - 80
83. Delius - 79
84. Borodin - 76
85. Hildegard - 74
86. Boccherini - 73
87. Hummel - 69
87. Smetana - 69
89. Bellini - 67
90. Bax - 63
90. Penderecki - 63
92. Gershwin - 58
92. Tallis - 58
94. Franck - 57
95. Albeniz - 56
95. Wolf - 56
97. Medtner - 54
98. Walton - 51
99. Boulez - 50
100. Biber - 49
100. Corelli - 49
100. Massenet - 49
103. Holst - 47
104. Hindemith - 46
104. Vogelweide - 46
106. Stockhausen - 44
107. Zelenka - 43
108. Spohr - 40
109. Glinka - 37
110. Victoria - 36
111. Martinu - 34
112. Dowland - 33
113. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 32
114. Enescu - 30
114. Piazzolla - 30
116. Poulenc - 29
117. Falla - 27
117. Gorecki - 27
119. Takemitsu - 26
120. Alwyn - 25
120. Schumann, Clara - 25
122. Paganini - 24
123. Harbison - 23
124. Byrd - 22
124. Lalo - 22
124. Offenbach - 22
127. Brian - 20
127. Leifs - 20
127. Schütz - 20
130. Bernstein - 19
130. Lutoslawski - 19
130. Rodrigo - 19
133. Alkan - 18
133. Tveitt - 18
135. Couperin - 17
135. Xenakis - 17
137. Albinoni - 16
137. Buxtehude - 16
137. Clementi - 16
137. Gombert - 16
137. Skalkottas - 16
142. Crumb - 15
142. MacDowell - 15
144. Berwald - 14
144. Graun - 14
144. Hartmann - 14
144. Wohlfahrt - 14
148. Berio - 13
149. Golijov - 12
150. Hasse - 11
150. Henze - 11
152. Beach - 10
152. Rudland - 10
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
161. Carter - 6
161. Gabrieli - 6
161. Heinichen - 6
161. Stamitz - 6
165. Abel - 5
165. Eberl - 5
165. Gubaidulina - 5
165. Marcello - 5
165. Sorabji - 5
165. Veress - 5
171. Allegri - 4
171. Brouwer - 4
171. Cage - 4
171. Ferneyhough - 4
171. Perotin - 4
176. Simpson - 3
177. Cherubini - 2
177. Danzi - 2
177. Torelli - 2
180. Krenek - 1
180. Meyerbeer - 1
180. Monti - 1
180. Strauss I, Johann - 1
184. Czerny - -3
185. Schobert - -9


----------



## JAKE WYB

Bax + 10
Martinu + 9

Delius - 3


----------



## crmoorhead

I would like to carry on if you are still willing to tally the scores. I think that once we get to 50 we should consider lowering the threshold.


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Who knows + something


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Continue with lower thresholds · 10

Stop at rank 50 · -3


----------



## science

10 Strauss, J II
9 Gluck 
8 Gombert
7 Britten 
6 Buxtehude 
5 Clementi 
4 Piazzolla 
3 Scriabin 
2 Rameau
1 Alkan
-3 JC Bach


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - C.P.E. Bach
9 - Bizet
8 - Glass
7 - Lully
6 - Rossini
5 - Britten
4 - Poulenc
3 - Barber
2 - Meyerbeer
1 - Eberl

-3 - J.C. Bach (A tad too high, I think)


----------



## crmoorhead

10pts Rossini
9 Barber
8 Britten
7 Janacek
6 Adams
5 Weber
4 Rameau
3 Glass
2 Donizetti
1 Gershwin

-3 JC Bach


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Janacek
8. Britten
7. Lully
6. Rameau
5. Gluck
4. Berg
3. Josquin
2. Buxtehude
1. Piazolla


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Berg
7 Webern
6 Varese
5 Tallis
4 Respighi
3 Bellini
2 Holst
1 Byrd

-3 JC Bach


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Massenet +10
2. Gluck +9
3. Britten +8
4. Rameau +7
5. Johann Strauss II +6
6. Josquin +5
7. Gesualdo +4
8. J.C. Bach +3
9. Bellini +2
10. Donizetti +1

Ligeti -3


----------



## Turangalîla

Messiaen is in now, so to whom shall I give my ten-point vote...?

Webern - 10
Hildegarde - 9
Berg - 8
Ligeti - 7
Gesualdo - 6
Boulez - 5
Glass - 4
Adams - 3
Poulenc - 2
Couperin - 1

J.C. Bach -3


----------



## Arsakes

10. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Glazunov
7. Strauss II, Johann
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Nielsen
4. Smetana
3. Glinka
2. Khachaturian
1. Hovhaness 

(No. 1 and 2. should be on the list at least)

- 3 Bach, J.C.


----------



## Arsakes

10. Rimsky-Korsakov
9. Glazunov
7. Strauss II, Johann
6. Ippolitov-Ivanov
5. Nielsen
4. Smetana
3. Glinka
2. Khachaturian
1. Hovhaness 

(# 1. and 2. should be on the list at least)

- 3 Bach, J.C.


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček - 393
43. Britten - 356
43. Rossini - 356
45. Nielsen - 351
46. Josquin - 348
47. Rimsky-Korsakov - 347
48. Bach, J.C. - 335
49. Barber - 331
50. Gluck - 325
51. Berg - 323
52. Ligeti - 293
53. Villa-Lobos - 282
54. Bach, C.P.E. - 273
55. Webern - 271
56. Scriabin - 256
57. Rameau - 254
58. Satie - 209
59. Bizet - 195
60. Copland - 171
61. Lully - 164
61. Strauss II, Johann - 164
63. Telemann - 160
64. Adams - 157
65. Arnold - 153
66. Alfven - 149
67. Glass - 144
68. Gesualdo - 139
69. Weber - 136
70. Varèse - 123
71. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
71. Schnittke - 109
73. Respighi - 105
74. Haydn, Michael - 102
75. Glazunov - 99
75. Machaut - 99
75. Rott - 99
78. Reich - 98
79. Ives - 97
79. Pärt - 97
81. Donizetti - 84
82. Hildegard - 83
83. Novak - 80
84. Borodin - 76
84. Delius - 76
86. Bax - 73
86. Boccherini - 73
86. Smetana - 73
89. Bellini - 72
90. Hummel - 69
91. Penderecki - 63
91. Tallis - 63
93. Gershwin - 59
93. Massenet - 59
95. Franck - 57
96. Albeniz - 56
96. Wolf - 56
98. Boulez - 55
99. Medtner - 54
100. Walton - 51
101. Biber - 49
101. Corelli - 49
101. Holst - 49
104. Hindemith - 46
104. Vogelweide - 46
106. Stockhausen - 44
107. Martinu - 43
107. Zelenka - 43
109. Glinka - 40
109. Spohr - 40
111. Victoria - 36
112. Piazzolla - 35
112. Poulenc - 35
114. Dowland - 33
115. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 32
116. Enescu - 30
117. Falla - 27
117. Gorecki - 27
119. Takemitsu - 26
120. Alwyn - 25
120. Schumann, Clara - 25
122. Buxtehude - 24
122. Gombert - 24
122. Paganini - 24
125. Byrd - 23
125. Harbison - 23
127. Lalo - 22
127. Offenbach - 22
129. Clementi - 21
130. Brian - 20
130. Leifs - 20
130. Schütz - 20
133. Alkan - 19
133. Bernstein - 19
133. Lutoslawski - 19
133. Rodrigo - 19
137. Couperin - 18
137. Tveitt - 18
139. Xenakis - 17
140. Albinoni - 16
140. Skalkottas - 16
142. Crumb - 15
142. MacDowell - 15
144. Berwald - 14
144. Graun - 14
144. Hartmann - 14
144. Wohlfahrt - 14
148. Berio - 13
149. Golijov - 12
150. Hasse - 11
150. Henze - 11
152. Beach - 10
152. Rudland - 10
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
158. Locatelli - 7
158. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
158. Wyschnegradsky - 7
161. Carter - 6
161. Eberl - 6
161. Gabrieli - 6
161. Heinichen - 6
161. Stamitz - 6
166. Abel - 5
166. Gubaidulina - 5
166. Marcello - 5
166. Sorabji - 5
166. Veress - 5
171. Allegri - 4
171. Brouwer - 4
171. Cage - 4
171. Ferneyhough - 4
171. Perotin - 4
176. Meyerbeer - 3
176. Simpson - 3
178. Cherubini - 2
178. Danzi - 2
178. Khachaturian - 2
178. Torelli - 2
182. Hovhaness - 1
182. Krenek - 1
182. Monti - 1
182. Strauss I, Johann - 1
186. Czerny - -3
187. Schobert - -9


----------



## Very Senior Member

I reckon we should stop voting at position 50 but at that point take all the composers up to 100, so that any votes made for those above 51 won’t be wasted. I don’t think the threshold should be dropped for the remaining positions up to 50. I say this because I don’t think there are enough voters to sustain this exercise much longer. I’m also sceptical that it’s possible for everyone here to rank composers at these lower levels with sufficient precision. Further, we could start to get troll votes, which might upset the results of previous rounds, if counted. On the whole, “second best” theorem considerations suggest that it may be better to let existing weaknesses in the set of ranks cancel each other out rather than making an effort to fix them by further voting, which could actually make things worse given the fundamental weaknesses of low voting numbers and variable membership throughout this whole exercise. 

Rameau	+10	
Rossini	+9	
Britten	+8	
Delius	+7	
Bax	+6	
Josquin Des Prez +5	
Telemann	+4	
Weber	+3	
Janacek	+2	
C P E Bach	+1	
J C Bach	-3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

I don't mind either way. It's mainly about having some fun.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rossini · 6
Rott · 5
Wolf · 4
von der Vogelweide · 3
Holst · 2
Corelli · 1

Vladimir Strauss · -3


----------



## science

I support any decision pjang23 makes. He's the doing the work.


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Rimsky-Korsakov
9.	Janáček
8.	JC Bach
7.	Telemann
6.	Bach, C.P.E.
5.	Copland
4.	Josquin
3.	Bizet
2.	Weber
1.	Nielsen


----------



## Turangalîla

Webern 10
Ligeti 9
Berg 8
Hildegarde 7
Franck 6
Couperin 5
Glass 4
Adams 3
Penderecki 2
Boulez 1

Barber -3 (It's not that I dislike Barber, but I cannot imagine a world where he is above Ligeti and Berg)


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Messiaen (He's too high in my opinion, sorry CJP)

That's okay Steven . I don't mind people voting against him if they think he's too high. I'm just glad that you decided that for yourself and didn't start an anti-Messiaen revolt.

You mean like the current anti-J.C. Bach revolt? Gotta wonder how many of those votes are by those whove never even really listened to J.C. Bach.


----------



## science

As I don't want to be criticized, I'd better stop voting. I haven't heard enough of Raimon de Miraval to be sure he shouldn't be ranked above Thomas Linley the Elder. 

Sorry for interfering in your crusade, SLGO. My inferiority utterly manifest, I bow to your better judgment.


----------



## science

Well, I have acquired the objective rankings of the top 165 composers.

1.	Mozart
2.	Bach, JS
3.	Beethoven
4.	Brahms
5.	Schubert 
6.	Verdi
7.	Tchaikovsky 
8.	Handel
9.	Schumann
10.	Mendelssohn
11.	Chopin
12.	Debussy
13.	Haydn, FJ
14.	Wagner
15.	Puccini 
16.	Liszt
17.	Ravel 
18.	Dvorak
19.	Vivaldi 
20.	Strauss, R
21.	Rachmaninov
22.	Rossini 
23.	Bizet
24.	Saint-Saëns
25.	Prokofiev
26.	Shostakovich 
27.	Donizetti 
28.	Fauré
29.	Gounod 
30.	Mahler 
31.	Grieg 
32.	Massenet
33.	Stravinsky 
34.	Elgar
35.	Strauss, J II
36.	Britten
37.	Sibelius 
38.	Vaughan Williams 
39.	Gershwin
40.	Mussorgsky 
41.	Rimsky-Korsakov 
42.	Franck
43.	Berlioz
44.	Purcell
45.	Bartok
46.	Bellini
47.	Telemann
48.	Weber
49.	Bruckner
50.	Falla
51.	Poulenc 
52.	Leoncavallo
53.	Mascagni
54.	Offenbach
55.	Gluck
56.	Bernstein
57.	Villa-Lobos
58.	Copland
59.	Meyerbeer
60.	Albeniz
61.	Scarlatti, D
62.	Hindemith 
63.	Smetana
64.	Monteverdi 
65.	Barber
66.	Granados
67.	Giordano 
68.	Paganini 
69.	Holst 
70.	Satie
71.	Janacek
72.	Reger
73.	Pachelbel 
74.	Scriabin 
75.	Borodin
76.	Byrd
77.	Lehár
78.	Rodrigo 
79.	Ponchielli
80.	Delibes
81.	Kreisler 
82.	Bach, CPE
83.	Messiaen
84.	Boccherini
85.	Walton
86.	Respighi
87.	Gruber
88.	Albinoni
89.	Bruch
90.	Dowland 
91.	Adam
92.	Glazunov
93.	Martinu 
94.	Khachaturian 
95.	Praetorius 
96.	Buxtehude 
97.	Cilèa
98.	Thomas 
99.	Palestrina 
100.	Ives
101.	Nielsen
102.	Howells
103.	Wade
104.	Corelli
105.	Milhaud 
106.	Rameau 
107.	Glinka 
108.	Berg
109.	Rameau 
110.	Couperin
111.	Widor
112.	Sarasate 
113.	Sullivan 
114.	Berlin 
115.	Ibert
116.	Scarlatti, A
117.	Cage
118.	Korngold 
119.	Delius
120.	Frescobaldi 
121.	Tallis 
122.	Kodály 
123.	Stanford
124.	Des Préz
125.	Turina 
126.	Bloch
127.	Flotow 
128.	Parry
129.	Rutter
130.	Schütz
131.	Hummel
132.	Pärt
133.	Boito 
134.	Tosti 
135.	Tarrega
136.	Chabrier 
137.	Rubinstein 
138.	Tavener
139.	Sor
140.	Vierne 
141.	Humperdinck 
142.	Pergolesi 
143.	Chausson 
144.	Schnittke
145.	Busoni
146.	Strauss, J I
147.	Lalo
148.	Duruflé 
149.	Szymanowski 
150.	Dupré 
151.	Gabrieli 
152.	Orff
153.	Ginastera 
154.	Glass
155.	Honegger 
156.	Spohr
157.	De Curtis 
158.	Enescu 
159.	Mason 
160.	Davies
161.	Catalani 
162.	Gibbons 
163.	Bach, JC
164.	Wieniawski
165.	Bridge

Now, all of us - being finite, mortal, totally depraved (in the technical sense), original sinners - are going to disagree with this list at some point or other. I don't have time to craft personalized insults for all of us, but I'll give a few examples and you'll be able to serve yourself.

For instance, in my opinion Boito is too high. But the list responds, "Have you heard his masterpiece, _Mefistole_?" First I verify that the list is not accusing me of being the devil, and then I say, "Why yes, I have." I think I've won, but the list replies, "Ah, but have you heard Capuana's recording of it? That you must hear, or you are not qualified to judge." The list probably wins, but perhaps I can reply, "Nay, but o list, I have heard that recording lots of times, and find it inferior to but Muti and Rudel. And yet I persist in my judgment that Boito is too high." The list responds, "No, you do not yet understand, my puppy. You ought to have seen it live. There is no recording that can convey the intensity of the drama of a live performance. Boito was a master of stagecraft." But if I heard that performance, the list replies, "No, you must sing the lead role to truly understand."

And so on, until the list wins. Whenever we disagree, we must

- simply not even begin to know what we're talking about; or,
- not have heard the relevant works; or,
- not have heard those works enough times; or,
- not have heard the proper recordings of them; or,
- not have heard them live; or,
- not have heard them live enough times; or,
- not have heard them live by the proper performers enough times; or,
- not have performed them; or,
- not have played the proper instruments or roles; or, 
- not have performed them in the proper venues; or,
- not have understood what we performed; or,
- in spite of all, simply not know what we're talking about.

Thus we can guilt ourselves up real fine, and no amount of education or experience will fully flog away all traces of the glitter. If we can internalize it, we will be able to carry our guilt around long after the original influences on us have disappeared.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

JC Bach = +10
CPE Bach = +9
WF Bach = +8
Michael Haydn = +7
Rossini = +6
Gluck = +5
Rameau = +4
Telemann = +3
Hummel = +2
Boccherini = +1

Nielsen = -3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

delete delete delete. Repeat.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

science said:


> Now, all of us - being finite, mortal, totally depraved (in the technical sense), original sinners - are going to disagree with this list at some point or other. I don't have time to craft personalized insults for all of us, but I'll give a few examples and you'll be able to serve yourself.


I stopped reading the post after the sentence I quoted above. You sound like an unhappy poster these days, member science judging from the consistent style of writing you put up. You need to chill out.


----------



## pjang23

10 Josquin
9 Berg
8 Weber
7 Part
6 Rimsky-Korsakov
5 CPE Bach
4 Machaut
3 Glazunov
2 Hummel
1 Medtner
-3 Cage

We can continue to 75 and see how the list looks from there.

Current Standings: Janacek is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Rossini - 377
44. Josquin - 367
45. Britten - 364
46. Rimsky-Korsakov - 363
47. Bach, J.C. - 350
48. Nielsen - 349
49. Berg - 340
50. Gluck - 330
51. Barber - 328
52. Ligeti - 302
53. Bach, C.P.E. - 294
54. Villa-Lobos - 282
55. Webern - 281
56. Rameau - 268
57. Scriabin - 266
58. Satie - 219
59. Bizet - 198
60. Telemann - 181
61. Copland - 176
62. Lully - 172
63. Strauss II, Johann - 164
64. Adams - 160
65. Arnold - 153
66. Alfven - 149
66. Weber - 149
68. Glass - 148
69. Gesualdo - 139
70. Varèse - 123
71. Respighi - 114
72. Haydn, Michael - 109
72. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
72. Schnittke - 109
75. Pärt - 104
75. Rott - 104
77. Machaut - 103
78. Glazunov - 102
79. Reich - 98
80. Ives - 97
81. Hildegard - 90
82. Donizetti - 84
83. Delius - 83
84. Novak - 80
85. Bax - 79
86. Borodin - 76
87. Boccherini - 74
88. Hummel - 73
88. Smetana - 73
90. Bellini - 72
91. Penderecki - 65
92. Franck - 63
92. Tallis - 63
94. Wolf - 60
95. Gershwin - 59
95. Massenet - 59
97. Albeniz - 56
97. Boulez - 56
99. Medtner - 55
100. Holst - 51
100. Walton - 51
102. Corelli - 50
103. Biber - 49
103. Vogelweide - 49
105. Hindemith - 46
106. Stockhausen - 44
107. Martinu - 43
107. Zelenka - 43
109. Glinka - 40
109. Spohr - 40
111. Victoria - 36
112. Piazzolla - 35
112. Poulenc - 35
114. Dowland - 33
115. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 32
116. Enescu - 30
117. Falla - 27
117. Gorecki - 27
119. Takemitsu - 26
120. Alwyn - 25
120. Schumann, Clara - 25
122. Buxtehude - 24
122. Gombert - 24
122. Paganini - 24
125. Byrd - 23
125. Couperin - 23
125. Harbison - 23
128. Lalo - 22
128. Offenbach - 22
130. Clementi - 21
131. Brian - 20
131. Leifs - 20
131. Schütz - 20
134. Alkan - 19
134. Bernstein - 19
134. Lutoslawski - 19
134. Rodrigo - 19
138. Tveitt - 18
139. Xenakis - 17
140. Albinoni - 16
140. Skalkottas - 16
142. Crumb - 15
142. MacDowell - 15
144. Berwald - 14
144. Graun - 14
144. Hartmann - 14
144. Wohlfahrt - 14
148. Berio - 13
149. Golijov - 12
150. Hasse - 11
150. Henze - 11
152. Beach - 10
152. Rudland - 10
154. Bach, W.F. - 8
154. Charpentier - 8
154. Schreker - 8
154. Zemlinsky - 8
154. Zimmerman - 8
159. Locatelli - 7
159. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
159. Wyschnegradsky - 7
162. Carter - 6
162. Eberl - 6
162. Gabrieli - 6
162. Heinichen - 6
162. Stamitz - 6
167. Abel - 5
167. Gubaidulina - 5
167. Marcello - 5
167. Sorabji - 5
167. Veress - 5
172. Allegri - 4
172. Brouwer - 4
172. Ferneyhough - 4
172. Perotin - 4
176. Meyerbeer - 3
176. Simpson - 3
178. Cherubini - 2
178. Danzi - 2
178. Khachaturian - 2
178. Torelli - 2
182. Cage - 1
182. Hovhaness - 1
182. Krenek - 1
182. Monti - 1
182. Strauss I, Johann - 1
187. Czerny - -3
188. Schobert - -9


----------



## Toddlertoddy

Let's continue until we have at least two female/non-white composers. My guess is Hildegard and C. Schumann for females.


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Rossini
9 Barber
8 Britten
7 Donizetti
6 Weber
5 Adams
4 Rameau
3 Gershwin
2 Arnold
1 Glass


----------



## Couchie

Clara Schumann: -3 points.


That is all.


----------



## Turangalîla

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Messiaen (He's too high in my opinion, sorry CJP)
> 
> That's okay Steven . I don't mind people voting against him if they think he's too high. I'm just glad that you decided that for yourself and didn't start an anti-Messiaen revolt.
> 
> You mean like the current anti-J.C. Bach revolt? Gotta wonder how many of those votes are by those whove never even really listened to J.C. Bach.


No one exhorted everyone else to vote against J.C. Bach, and if someone did I didn't read it. Three or four people gave him their negative votes, myself included, but that was the first time I voted against him and I never encouraged anyone else to do so, nor did I respond to anyone's encouragement. If I read the rankings list objectively I would immediately feel that J.C. Bach is more highly ranked than I agreed with. Obviously, a few others felt the same. This situation does not qualify as a "revolt".


----------



## StevenOBrien

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> No one exhorted everyone else to vote against J.C. Bach, and if someone did I didn't read it. Three or four people gave him their negative votes, myself included, but that was the first time I voted against him and I never encouraged anyone else to do so, nor did I respond to anyone's encouragement. If I read the rankings list objectively I would immediately feel that J.C. Bach is more highly ranked than I agreed with. Obviously, a few others felt the same. This situation does not qualify as a "revolt".


I think I was the first person to even vote for J.C. Bach. I'm overjoyed that he's even on the list at all, but I think he's been put to high as it is. Also, I wouldn't have any issue with going past 50.

10 - C.P.E. Bach
9 - Britten
8 - Glass
7 - Rossini
6 - Hummel
5 - W.F. Bach
4 - Lully
3 - Clara Schumann
2 - Barber
1 - Berg

-3 - J.C. Bach


----------



## aaroncopland

10-Tchaikovsky
9-Mahler
8-Richard Strauss
7-Wagner
6-Sibelius
-5-Haydn
-4-Vivaldi
-3-Bach
-2-Handel
-1-Mozart


----------



## StevenOBrien

aaroncopland said:


> 10-Tchaikovsky
> 9-Mahler
> 8-Richard Strauss
> 7-Wagner
> 6-Sibelius
> -5-Haydn
> -4-Vivaldi
> -3-Bach
> -2-Handel
> -1-Mozart


All of these composers have already been permanently voted into the list, so there's no need to vote for them any more. Anyone with points beside their name (Rossini and below) can still be voted for though.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Martinu
9 Berg
8 Webern
7 Hildegard
6 C. Schumann

-3 Couchie


----------



## science

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I stopped reading the post after the sentence I quoted above. You sound like an unhappy poster these days, member science judging from the consistent style of writing you put up. You need to chill out.


Not gonna happen man. And let's face it, you wouldn't have said anything like this if I'd been supporting JC Bach.


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Bellini
7 Hindemith
6 Berg
5 Webern
4 Tallis
3 Byrd
2 Ives
1 Varese

-3 JC Bach


----------



## science

10 JC Bach <--- OMG, I'm one of cool guys now! I'm an insider in the TC clique! Wow!

(Giggles.) Who are we gonna look down on now, guys? Come on! This is gonna be so fun!!!11!!

9 Bernstein
8 Offenbach
7 Rodrigo
6 Lalo
5 Berio
4 Albinoni
3 Berwald
2 Henze
1 Crumb


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

science said:


> Not gonna happen man. And let's face it, you wouldn't have said anything like this if I'd been supporting JC Bach.


Need I say more? :lol:

Edit: Ramen noodles might help.


----------



## Rapide

I don't mind Johann Christian bach. 

So JC Bach +10 
But I prefer Boulez, so Boules +9 
Part 8
Rimsky-Korsakov 7
Machaut 6
Lalo 5
Ives 4
Gorecki 3
Franck 2
Corelli 1

-3 Khachaturian


----------



## science

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Need I say more? :lol:


No your scorn is sufficiently manifest.


----------



## science

Rapide said:


> -3 Khachaturian


But that is funny.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Rimsky-Korsakov
9.	JC Bach
8.	Telemann
7.	Bach, C.P.E.
6.	Copland
5.	Josquin
4.	Bizet
3.	Weber
2.	Nielsen
1.	Rossini


----------



## science

science said:


> 10 JC Bach <--- OMG, I'm one of cool guys now! I'm an insider in the TC clique! Wow!
> 
> (Giggles.) Who are we gonna look down on now, guys? Come on! This is gonna be so fun!!!11!!


Fool'd y'all!

Ha! Hot darn it's good at the top. Man, if I'd only known, I'd have joined the Wagner clique too.

But, no. It's too little, too late, isn't it? I'll never be cool, will I?

I probably ought to start liking rap.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
2. Rimsky-Korsakov +9
3. Alessandro Scarlatti +8
4. Britten +7
5. Biber +6
6. Rameau +5
7. Bellini +4
8. Johann Strauss II +3
9. Gesualdo +2
10. Josquin +1

Boulez -3


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Britten
8. Lully
7. Gluck
6. Rameau
5. Ives
4. Copland
3. Josquin
2. Schnittke
1. Dowland


----------



## Turangalîla

Okay y'all, let's tone down the intensity of the arguments before Air or Chi Town Philly needs to intervene...


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten - 397
44. Rossini - 395
45. Rimsky-Korsakov - 389
46. Josquin - 386
47. Bach, J.C. - 373
48. Berg - 356
49. Nielsen - 351
50. Gluck - 347
51. Barber - 339
52. Bach, C.P.E. - 311
53. Ligeti - 302
54. Webern - 294
55. Villa-Lobos - 292
56. Rameau - 283
57. Scriabin - 266
58. Satie - 219
59. Bizet - 202
60. Copland - 195
61. Telemann - 189
62. Lully - 184
63. Strauss II, Johann - 167
64. Adams - 165
65. Weber - 158
66. Glass - 157
67. Arnold - 155
68. Alfven - 149
69. Gesualdo - 141
70. Varèse - 124
71. Respighi - 114
72. Pärt - 112
73. Schnittke - 111
74. Haydn, Michael - 109
74. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
74. Machaut - 109
77. Ives - 108
78. Rott - 104
79. Glazunov - 102
80. Reich - 98
81. Hildegard - 97
82. Donizetti - 91
83. Bellini - 84
84. Delius - 83
85. Novak - 80
86. Bax - 79
86. Hummel - 79
88. Borodin - 76
89. Boccherini - 74
90. Smetana - 73
91. Tallis - 67
92. Franck - 65
92. Penderecki - 65
94. Boulez - 62
94. Gershwin - 62
96. Wolf - 60
97. Massenet - 59
98. Albeniz - 56
99. Biber - 55
99. Medtner - 55
101. Hindemith - 53
101. Martinu - 53
103. Corelli - 51
103. Holst - 51
103. Walton - 51
106. Vogelweide - 49
107. Stockhausen - 44
108. Zelenka - 43
109. Glinka - 40
109. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 40
109. Spohr - 40
112. Victoria - 36
113. Piazzolla - 35
113. Poulenc - 35
115. Dowland - 34
115. Schumann, Clara - 34
117. Lalo - 33
118. Enescu - 30
118. Gorecki - 30
118. Offenbach - 30
121. Bernstein - 28
122. Falla - 27
123. Byrd - 26
123. Rodrigo - 26
123. Takemitsu - 26
126. Alwyn - 25
127. Buxtehude - 24
127. Gombert - 24
127. Paganini - 24
130. Couperin - 23
130. Harbison - 23
132. Clementi - 21
133. Albinoni - 20
133. Brian - 20
133. Leifs - 20
133. Schütz - 20
137. Alkan - 19
137. Lutoslawski - 19
139. Berio - 18
139. Tveitt - 18
141. Berwald - 17
141. Xenakis - 17
143. Crumb - 16
143. Skalkottas - 16
145. MacDowell - 15
146. Graun - 14
146. Hartmann - 14
146. Wohlfahrt - 14
149. Bach, W.F. - 13
149. Henze - 13
151. Golijov - 12
152. Hasse - 11
153. Beach - 10
153. Rudland - 10
155. Charpentier - 8
155. Schreker - 8
155. Zemlinsky - 8
155. Zimmerman - 8
159. Locatelli - 7
159. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
159. Wyschnegradsky - 7
162. Carter - 6
162. Eberl - 6
162. Gabrieli - 6
162. Heinichen - 6
162. Stamitz - 6
167. Abel - 5
167. Gubaidulina - 5
167. Marcello - 5
167. Sorabji - 5
167. Veress - 5
172. Allegri - 4
172. Brouwer - 4
172. Ferneyhough - 4
172. Perotin - 4
176. Meyerbeer - 3
176. Simpson - 3
178. Cherubini - 2
178. Danzi - 2
178. Torelli - 2
181. Cage - 1
181. Hovhaness - 1
181. Krenek - 1
181. Monti - 1
181. Strauss I, Johann - 1
186. Khachaturian - -1
187. Czerny - -3
188. Schobert - -9


----------



## Very Senior Member

Barber	+10	
C P E Bach	+9	
Rameau	+8	
Scriabin	+7	
Bizet	+6	
Rossini +5 (he is now in)	
Weber	+4	
Britten	+3 (he is now in)	
Bax	+2	
Holst	+1	
Berg	-3


----------



## science

Is that our first tie?


----------



## pjang23

Since Britten was ahead before Very Senior Member's vote, I'll put him above Rossini.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Okay y'all, let's tone down the intensity of the arguments before Air or Chi Town Philly needs to intervene...


You're not a mod, so STAY OUT OF IT!


----------



## Txitxo

Beethoven +10
Bach +9
Mozart +8
Mahler +7
Shostakovich +6
Prokofiev +5
Brahms +4
Ravel +3
Chopin +2
Schubert +1
Cage -3


----------



## pjang23

Txitxo said:


> *Beethoven +10
> Bach +9
> Mozart +8
> Mahler  +7
> Shostakovich +6
> Prokofiev +5
> Brahms +4
> Ravel +3
> Chopin +2
> Schubert +1*
> Cage -3


Thanks for participating Txitxo. All of these composers have already been permanently placed on the list and cannot be voted for. You may vote for any composer which has not yet reached 400 points.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

pjang23 said:


> Thanks for participating Txitxo. All of these composers have already been permanently placed on the list and cannot be voted for. You may vote for any composer which has not yet reached 400 points.


He/she/it meant to put *Ligeti* at ten points and Cage at nine.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Corelli · 2
Smetana · 1

Ludwig Zwiebelsack · -3


----------



## Txitxo

Sorry. Here is the new list:
Rimsky-Korsakov +10
Falla +9
Bizet +8
Borodin +7
Albéniz +6
Granados +5 
Khachaturian +4
E. Granados +3 
Mompou +2
Boris Chaikovsky +1
Cage -3


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Bach, C.P.E.
8.	Copland
7.	Josquin
6.	Bizet
5.	JC Bach
4.	Weber
3.	Nielsen
2.	Borodin
1.	Rimsky-Korsakov

I think Rimsky-Korsakov is now in.


----------



## Trout

10 Josquin
9 Copland
8 Berg
7 Webern

-3 JC Bach


----------



## pjang23

mmsbls said:


> 10.	Telemann
> 9.	Bach, C.P.E.
> 8.	Copland
> 7.	Josquin
> 6.	Bizet
> 5.	JC Bach
> 4.	Weber
> 3.	Nielsen
> 2.	Borodin
> 1.	Rimsky-Korsakov
> 
> I think Rimsky-Korsakov is now in.


Hello mmsbls,

You have an extra vote from yesterday, so I cannot count this vote.


----------



## pjang23

10 Berg
9 Barber
8 Holst
7 CPE Bach
6 Copland
5 Lully
4 Josquin
3 Hummel
2 Part
1 Rimsky-Korsakov
-3 JC Bach

Current Standings: Britten, Rossini, Rimsky-Korsakov and Josquin are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg - 371
48. Bach, J.C. - 370
49. Barber - 358
50. Nielsen - 351
51. Gluck - 347
52. Bach, C.P.E. - 327
53. Ligeti - 302
54. Webern - 301
55. Villa-Lobos - 292
56. Rameau - 291
57. Scriabin - 283
58. Satie - 229
59. Bizet - 216
60. Copland - 210
61. Lully - 197
62. Telemann - 196
63. Strauss II, Johann - 167
64. Adams - 165
65. Weber - 162
66. Glass - 157
67. Arnold - 155
68. Alfven - 149
69. Gesualdo - 141
70. Varèse - 124
71. Respighi - 123
72. Pärt - 114
73. Schnittke - 111
74. Rott - 110
75. Haydn, Michael - 109
75. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
75. Machaut - 109
78. Ives - 108
79. Glazunov - 102
80. Reich - 98
81. Hildegard - 97
82. Donizetti - 91
83. Bellini - 84
84. Borodin - 83
84. Delius - 83
86. Hummel - 82
87. Bax - 81
88. Novak - 80
89. Boccherini - 74
89. Smetana - 74
91. Tallis - 67
92. Franck - 65
92. Penderecki - 65
92. Wolf - 65
95. Holst - 63
96. Albeniz - 62
96. Boulez - 62
96. Gershwin - 62
99. Massenet - 59
100. Biber - 55
100. Medtner - 55
102. Corelli - 53
102. Hindemith - 53
102. Martinu - 53
102. Vogelweide - 53
106. Walton - 51
107. Stockhausen - 44
108. Zelenka - 43
109. Glinka - 40
109. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 40
109. Spohr - 40
112. Falla - 36
112. Victoria - 36
114. Piazzolla - 35
114. Poulenc - 35
116. Dowland - 34
116. Schumann, Clara - 34
118. Lalo - 33
119. Enescu - 30
119. Gorecki - 30
119. Offenbach - 30
122. Bernstein - 28
123. Byrd - 26
123. Rodrigo - 26
123. Takemitsu - 26
126. Alwyn - 25
127. Buxtehude - 24
127. Gombert - 24
127. Paganini - 24
130. Couperin - 23
130. Harbison - 23
132. Clementi - 21
133. Albinoni - 20
133. Brian - 20
133. Leifs - 20
133. Schütz - 20
137. Alkan - 19
137. Lutoslawski - 19
139. Berio - 18
139. Tveitt - 18
141. Berwald - 17
141. Xenakis - 17
143. Crumb - 16
143. Skalkottas - 16
145. MacDowell - 15
146. Graun - 14
146. Hartmann - 14
146. Wohlfahrt - 14
149. Bach, W.F. - 13
149. Henze - 13
151. Golijov - 12
152. Hasse - 11
153. Beach - 10
153. Rudland - 10
155. Charpentier - 8
155. Schreker - 8
155. Zemlinsky - 8
155. Zimmerman - 8
159. Locatelli - 7
159. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
159. Wyschnegradsky - 7
162. Carter - 6
162. Eberl - 6
162. Gabrieli - 6
162. Heinichen - 6
162. Stamitz - 6
167. Abel - 5
167. Granados - 5
167. Gubaidulina - 5
167. Marcello - 5
167. Sorabji - 5
167. Veress - 5
173. Allegri - 4
173. Brouwer - 4
173. Ferneyhough - 4
173. Perotin - 4
177. Khachaturian - 3
177. Meyerbeer - 3
177. Simpson - 3
180. Cherubini - 2
180. Danzi - 2
180. Mompou - 2
180. Torelli - 2
184. Hovhaness - 1
184. Krenek - 1
184. Monti - 1
184. Strauss I, Johann - 1
184. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
189. Cage - -2
190. Czerny - -3
191. Schobert - -9


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Berg
9 CPE
8 Ives

-3 JC Bach


----------



## Conor71

10 Villa-Lobos
9 Ligeti
8 Nielsen


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Reich - 9
Adams - 8
Glass - 7
Penderecki - 6
Gershwin - 5
Berg - 4
Pärt - 3
Crumb - 2
Brian - 1


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - C.P.E. Bach
9 - Glass
8 - Bizet
7 - Lully
6 - Barber
5 - Weber
4 - Copland
3 - Hummel
2 - Scriabin
1 - Reich


----------



## science

10 Enescu 
9 Cage
8 Albinoni 
7 Cherubini
6 Buxtehude
5 Schutz
4 Granados
3 Meyerbeer
2 Mompou
1 Hovhaness
-3 Schobert


----------



## crmoorhead

10pts Barber
9 Adams
8 Rameau
7 Donizetti
6 Arnold
5 Couperin
4 Gershwin
3 Weber
2 Falla
1 Glass


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Have we decided on plus top 50 and thresholds?

JC Bach = +10
CPE Bach = +9
Michael Haydn = +8
Rameau = +7
Alessandro Scarlatti = +6
Spohr = +5
Graun = +4
Hasse = +3
Marcello = +2
Abel = +1

Nielsen = -3


----------



## pjang23

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Have we decided on plus top 50 and thresholds?


We will continue to 75 (maybe 100) and lower the threshold when every remaining composer is far from 400 (likely after Scriabin).


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
2. Alessandro Scarlatti +9
3. Biber +8
4. Rameau +7
5. Johann Strauss II +6
6. J.C. Bach +5
7. Gesualdo +4
8. Bellini +3
9. Donizetti +2
10. Zelenka +1

Ligeti -3


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Berg
8. Gluck
7. Lully
6. Rameau
5. Ives
4. Rodrigo
3. Copland
2. Buxtehude
1. Webern


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg - 394
48. Bach, J.C. - 382
49. Barber - 374
50. Gluck - 365
51. Nielsen - 356
52. Bach, C.P.E. - 355
53. Rameau - 319
54. Ligeti - 318
55. Villa-Lobos - 312
56. Webern - 302
57. Scriabin - 285
58. Satie - 229
59. Bizet - 224
60. Copland - 217
61. Lully - 211
62. Telemann - 196
63. Adams - 182
64. Glass - 174
65. Strauss II, Johann - 173
66. Weber - 170
67. Arnold - 161
68. Alfven - 149
69. Gesualdo - 141
70. Varèse - 124
71. Respighi - 123
72. Ives - 121
73. Haydn, Michael - 117
73. Pärt - 117
75. Schnittke - 111
76. Rott - 110
77. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
77. Machaut - 109
79. Reich - 108
80. Glazunov - 102
81. Donizetti - 100
82. Hildegard - 97
83. Bellini - 87
84. Hummel - 85
85. Borodin - 83
85. Delius - 83
87. Bax - 81
88. Novak - 80
89. Gershwin - 75
90. Boccherini - 74
90. Smetana - 74
92. Penderecki - 71
93. Tallis - 67
94. Franck - 65
94. Wolf - 65
96. Biber - 63
96. Holst - 63
98. Albeniz - 62
98. Boulez - 62
100. Massenet - 59
101. Medtner - 55
101. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 55
103. Corelli - 53
103. Hindemith - 53
103. Martinu - 53
103. Vogelweide - 53
107. Walton - 51
108. Spohr - 45
109. Stockhausen - 44
109. Zelenka - 44
111. Enescu - 40
111. Glinka - 40
113. Falla - 38
114. Victoria - 36
115. Piazzolla - 35
115. Poulenc - 35
117. Dowland - 34
117. Schumann, Clara - 34
119. Lalo - 33
120. Buxtehude - 32
121. Gorecki - 30
121. Offenbach - 30
121. Rodrigo - 30
124. Albinoni - 28
124. Bernstein - 28
124. Couperin - 28
127. Byrd - 26
127. Takemitsu - 26
129. Alwyn - 25
129. Schütz - 25
131. Gombert - 24
131. Paganini - 24
133. Harbison - 23
134. Brian - 21
134. Clementi - 21
136. Leifs - 20
137. Alkan - 19
137. Lutoslawski - 19
139. Berio - 18
139. Crumb - 18
139. Graun - 18
139. Tveitt - 18
143. Berwald - 17
143. Xenakis - 17
145. Skalkottas - 16
146. MacDowell - 15
147. Hartmann - 14
147. Hasse - 14
147. Wohlfahrt - 14
150. Bach, W.F. - 13
150. Henze - 13
152. Golijov - 12
153. Beach - 10
153. Rudland - 10
155. Cherubini - 9
155. Granados - 9
157. Charpentier - 8
157. Schreker - 8
157. Zemlinsky - 8
157. Zimmerman - 8
161. Cage - 7
161. Locatelli - 7
161. Marcello - 7
161. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
161. Wyschnegradsky - 7
166. Abel - 6
166. Carter - 6
166. Eberl - 6
166. Gabrieli - 6
166. Heinichen - 6
166. Meyerbeer - 6
166. Stamitz - 6
173. Gubaidulina - 5
173. Sorabji - 5
173. Veress - 5
176. Allegri - 4
176. Brouwer - 4
176. Ferneyhough - 4
176. Mompou - 4
176. Perotin - 4
181. Khachaturian - 3
181. Simpson - 3
183. Danzi - 2
183. Hovhaness - 2
183. Torelli - 2
186. Krenek - 1
186. Monti - 1
186. Strauss I, Johann - 1
186. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
190. Czerny - -3
191. Schobert - -12


----------



## Rapide

10 Massenet
9 Boccherini 
8 Rodrigo
7 Granados
6 Smetana
5 Scriabin
4 JC Bach
3 Clementi 
2 Corelli
1 Vagn Holmboe 
-3 Stockhausen


----------



## Very Senior Member

Barber	+10	
C P E Bach	+9	
Rameau	+8	
Holst	+7	
Delius	+6	
Walton	+5	
Weber	+4	
Bax	+3	
Bizet	+2	
Scriabin	+1	
Berg	-3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Smetana · 2
Corelli · 1

Hans Morgenfrüh · -3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Bach, C.P.E.
8.	Copland
7.	Bizet
6.	JC Bach
5.	Weber
4.	Nielsen
3.	Borodin
2.	Strauss II, Johann
1.	Adams


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti +10
Reich +9
Adams +8
Berg +7
Glass +6
Penderecki +5
Gershwin +4
Pärt +3
Crumb +2
Brian +1

Rameau -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Machaut
9 Weber
8 Part
7 Lully
6 Barber
5 CPE Bach
4 Hummel
3 Medtner
2 Berg
1 Bellini
-3 JC Bach

Current Standings: Berg is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Barber - 390
49. Bach, J.C. - 389
50. Bach, C.P.E. - 378
51. Gluck - 365
52. Nielsen - 360
53. Ligeti - 328
54. Rameau - 324
55. Villa-Lobos - 312
56. Webern - 302
57. Scriabin - 291
58. Satie - 239
59. Bizet - 233
60. Lully - 226
61. Copland - 225
62. Telemann - 213
63. Adams - 191
64. Weber - 188
65. Glass - 180
66. Strauss II, Johann - 175
67. Arnold - 161
68. Alfven - 149
69. Gesualdo - 141
70. Respighi - 132
71. Pärt - 128
72. Varèse - 124
73. Ives - 121
74. Machaut - 119
75. Haydn, Michael - 117
75. Reich - 117
77. Rott - 116
78. Schnittke - 111
79. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
80. Glazunov - 102
81. Donizetti - 100
82. Hildegard - 97
83. Delius - 89
83. Hummel - 89
85. Bellini - 88
86. Borodin - 86
87. Bax - 84
88. Boccherini - 83
89. Smetana - 82
90. Novak - 80
91. Gershwin - 79
92. Penderecki - 76
93. Holst - 73
94. Wolf - 70
95. Massenet - 69
96. Tallis - 67
97. Franck - 65
98. Biber - 63
99. Albeniz - 62
99. Boulez - 62
101. Medtner - 58
102. Vogelweide - 57
103. Corelli - 56
103. Walton - 56
105. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 55
106. Hindemith - 53
106. Martinu - 53
108. Spohr - 45
109. Zelenka - 44
110. Stockhausen - 41
111. Enescu - 40
111. Glinka - 40
113. Falla - 38
113. Rodrigo - 38
115. Victoria - 36
116. Piazzolla - 35
116. Poulenc - 35
118. Dowland - 34
118. Schumann, Clara - 34
120. Lalo - 33
121. Buxtehude - 32
122. Gorecki - 30
122. Offenbach - 30
124. Albinoni - 28
124. Bernstein - 28
124. Couperin - 28
127. Byrd - 26
127. Takemitsu - 26
129. Alwyn - 25
129. Schütz - 25
131. Clementi - 24
131. Gombert - 24
131. Paganini - 24
134. Harbison - 23
135. Brian - 22
136. Crumb - 20
136. Leifs - 20
138. Alkan - 19
138. Lutoslawski - 19
140. Berio - 18
140. Graun - 18
140. Tveitt - 18
143. Berwald - 17
143. Xenakis - 17
145. Granados - 16
145. Skalkottas - 16
147. MacDowell - 15
148. Hartmann - 14
148. Hasse - 14
148. Wohlfahrt - 14
151. Bach, W.F. - 13
151. Henze - 13
153. Golijov - 12
154. Beach - 10
154. Rudland - 10
156. Cherubini - 9
157. Charpentier - 8
157. Schreker - 8
157. Zemlinsky - 8
157. Zimmerman - 8
161. Cage - 7
161. Locatelli - 7
161. Marcello - 7
161. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
161. Wyschnegradsky - 7
166. Abel - 6
166. Carter - 6
166. Eberl - 6
166. Gabrieli - 6
166. Heinichen - 6
166. Meyerbeer - 6
166. Stamitz - 6
173. Gubaidulina - 5
173. Sorabji - 5
173. Veress - 5
176. Allegri - 4
176. Brouwer - 4
176. Ferneyhough - 4
176. Mompou - 4
176. Perotin - 4
181. Khachaturian - 3
181. Simpson - 3
183. Danzi - 2
183. Hovhaness - 2
183. Torelli - 2
186. Holmboe - 1
186. Krenek - 1
186. Monti - 1
186. Strauss I, Johann - 1
186. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
191. Czerny - -3
192. Schobert - -12


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - C.P.E. Bach (Which brother will make it to 400 first?! This is so exciting )
9 - Bizet
8 - Glass
7 - Gluck
6 - Lully
5 - Copland
4 - Satie
3 - Hummel
2 - Scriabin
1 - Poulenc


----------



## Turangalîla

Webern 10
Ligeti 9
Mompou 8 (Why does he only have four points?)
C.P.E. 7
Glass 6
Adams 5
Hildegarde 4
Gesualdo 3
Couperin 2
Crumb 1


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Gluck
8. C.P.E. Bach
7. Lully
6. Rameau
5. Schnittke
4. Walton
3. Falla
2. Ives
1. Takemitsu


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10


----------



## crmoorhead

10 Barber 
9 Adams
8 Donizetti
7 Weber
6 Glass
5 Rameau
4 Couperin
3 Nielsen
2 Arnold
1 Copland


----------



## science

10 Perotin
9 Strauss, J II 
8 Boccherini 
7 Delius 
6 Locatelli 
5 Albeniz 
4 Khachaturian 
3 Mompou 
2 Gabrieli 
1 Franck
-3 Schobert


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

CPE Bach should be in by now. Good result.

JC Bach = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Gluck = +8
Telemann = +7
Donizetti = +6
Alessandro Scarlatti = +5
Spohr = +4
Locatelli = +3
Albinoni = +2
Marcello = +1

Nielsen = -3


----------



## Rapide

10 Glazonov
9 Bizet
8 Hummel
7 Boulez
6 Martinu
5 Telemann
4 J. C. Bach
3 Poulenc
2 Mompou
1 Corelli

-3 Stockhausen


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: CPE Bach, Barber & JC Bach are in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck - 389
52. Nielsen - 360
53. Ligeti - 337
54. Rameau - 335
55. Villa-Lobos - 322
56. Webern - 312
57. Scriabin - 303
58. Bizet - 251
59. Satie - 243
60. Lully - 239
61. Copland - 231
62. Telemann - 225
63. Adams - 205
64. Glass - 200
65. Weber - 195
66. Strauss II, Johann - 184
67. Arnold - 163
68. Alfven - 149
69. Gesualdo - 144
70. Respighi - 132
71. Pärt - 128
72. Haydn, Michael - 126
73. Varèse - 124
74. Ives - 123
75. Machaut - 119
76. Reich - 117
77. Rott - 116
77. Schnittke - 116
79. Donizetti - 114
80. Glazunov - 112
81. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
82. Hildegard - 101
83. Hummel - 100
84. Delius - 96
85. Boccherini - 91
86. Bellini - 88
87. Borodin - 86
88. Bax - 84
89. Smetana - 82
90. Novak - 80
91. Gershwin - 79
92. Penderecki - 76
93. Holst - 73
94. Wolf - 70
95. Boulez - 69
95. Massenet - 69
97. Albeniz - 67
97. Tallis - 67
99. Franck - 66
100. Biber - 63
101. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 60
101. Walton - 60
103. Martinu - 59
104. Medtner - 58
105. Corelli - 57
105. Vogelweide - 57
107. Hindemith - 53
108. Spohr - 49
109. Zelenka - 44
110. Falla - 41
111. Enescu - 40
111. Glinka - 40
113. Poulenc - 39
114. Rodrigo - 38
114. Stockhausen - 38
116. Victoria - 36
117. Piazzolla - 35
118. Couperin - 34
118. Dowland - 34
118. Schumann, Clara - 34
121. Lalo - 33
122. Buxtehude - 32
123. Albinoni - 30
123. Gorecki - 30
123. Offenbach - 30
126. Bernstein - 28
127. Takemitsu - 27
128. Byrd - 26
129. Alwyn - 25
129. Schütz - 25
131. Clementi - 24
131. Gombert - 24
131. Paganini - 24
134. Harbison - 23
135. Brian - 22
136. Crumb - 21
137. Leifs - 20
138. Alkan - 19
138. Lutoslawski - 19
140. Berio - 18
140. Graun - 18
140. Tveitt - 18
143. Berwald - 17
143. Mompou - 17
143. Xenakis - 17
146. Granados - 16
146. Locatelli - 16
146. Skalkottas - 16
149. MacDowell - 15
150. Hartmann - 14
150. Hasse - 14
150. Perotin - 14
150. Wohlfahrt - 14
154. Bach, W.F. - 13
154. Henze - 13
156. Golijov - 12
157. Beach - 10
157. Rudland - 10
159. Cherubini - 9
160. Charpentier - 8
160. Gabrieli - 8
160. Marcello - 8
160. Schreker - 8
160. Zemlinsky - 8
160. Zimmerman - 8
166. Cage - 7
166. Khachaturian - 7
166. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
166. Wyschnegradsky - 7
170. Abel - 6
170. Carter - 6
170. Eberl - 6
170. Heinichen - 6
170. Meyerbeer - 6
170. Stamitz - 6
176. Gubaidulina - 5
176. Sorabji - 5
176. Veress - 5
179. Allegri - 4
179. Brouwer - 4
179. Ferneyhough - 4
182. Simpson - 3
183. Danzi - 2
183. Hovhaness - 2
183. Torelli - 2
186. Holmboe - 1
186. Krenek - 1
186. Monti - 1
186. Strauss I, Johann - 1
186. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
191. Czerny - -3
192. Schobert - -15


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Gluck +10
2. Alessandro Scarlatti +9
3. Biber +8
4. Johann Strauss II +7
5. Gesualdo +6
6. Rameau +5
7. Donizetti +4
8. Hildegard of Bingen +3
9. Massenet +2
10. Bellini +1

Ligeti -3


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

stlukesguildohio said:


> Ligeti -3


wrong


.

.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Bizet
9 - Lully
8 - W.F. Bach
7 - Glass
6 - Copland
5 - Satie
4 - Scriabin
3 - Hummel
2 - Reich
1 - Gluck (He should be in now)


----------



## Very Senior Member

Szymanowski +10	
Rameau	+9 
Delius	+8	
Walton	+7	
Weber	+6	
Bax	+5	
Bizet	+4	
Scriabin	+3	
Holst	+2	
Biber	+1	
Ligeti	-3


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Very Senior Member said:


> Ligeti	-3


wrong again.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Schobert currently on negative 15 points? :lol: Is this Johann Schobert (mid-18th century)? I have a couple of CDs of music by him. Keyboard music played on fortepiano/harpsichord. They were not remarkable and I probably would not mention him for any ranking here in the top 50 or 100. But there are several other composers I would like to have negative 15 points though before Schobert. Poor old Schobert!


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Smetana · 2
Corelli · 1


Kaspar Hauser's nephew Hans Johann Hauser · -3


----------



## science

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Schobert currently on negative 15 points? :lol: Is this Johann Schobert (mid-18th century)? I have a couple of CDs of music by him. Keyboard music played on fortepiano/harpsichord. They were not remarkable and I probably would not mention him for any ranking here in the top 50 or 100. But there are several other composers I would like to have negative 15 points though before Schobert. Poor old Schobert!


It is him, and your pity is misplaced. He is in the most enviable position on our list right now: he is getting more attention than, say, whoever is #112.

If you vote him up, the only reasonable assumption is that you wish him to remain virtually unknown.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Reich - 9
Adams - 8
Penderecki - 7
Gershwin - 6
Glass - 5
Pärt - 4
Crumb - 3
Cage - 2
Webern - 1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Ligeti - 10

Seriously Wrong


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Copland
8.	Bizet
7.	Weber
6.	Borodin
5.	Strauss II, Johann
4.	Adams
3.	Nielsen
2.	Scriabin
1.	Haydn, Michael


----------



## pjang23

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> wrong again.


I think he means you should write it as "-3 *Ligeti* " :lol:

10 Machaut
9 Weber
8 Lully
7 Scriabin
6 Part
5 Hummel
4 Copland
3 Donizetti
2 Bellini
1 Johann Strauss II
-3 Cage

Current Standings: Gluck is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Nielsen - 363
53. Rameau - 349
54. Ligeti - 341
55. Villa-Lobos - 322
56. Scriabin - 319
57. Webern - 313
58. Bizet - 273
59. Lully - 264
60. Satie - 258
61. Copland - 250
62. Telemann - 242
63. Adams - 217
63. Weber - 217
65. Glass - 212
66. Strauss II, Johann - 197
67. Arnold - 163
68. Gesualdo - 150
69. Alfven - 149
70. Respighi - 141
71. Pärt - 138
72. Machaut - 129
73. Reich - 128
74. Haydn, Michael - 127
75. Varèse - 124
76. Ives - 123
77. Rott - 122
78. Donizetti - 121
79. Schnittke - 116
80. Glazunov - 112
81. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 109
82. Hummel - 108
83. Delius - 104
83. Hildegard - 104
85. Borodin - 92
86. Bellini - 91
86. Boccherini - 91
88. Bax - 89
89. Gershwin - 85
90. Smetana - 84
91. Penderecki - 83
92. Novak - 80
93. Holst - 78
94. Wolf - 75
95. Biber - 72
96. Massenet - 71
97. Boulez - 69
97. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 69
99. Albeniz - 67
99. Tallis - 67
99. Walton - 67
102. Franck - 66
103. Vogelweide - 61
104. Martinu - 59
105. Corelli - 58
105. Medtner - 58
107. Hindemith - 53
108. Spohr - 49
109. Zelenka - 44
110. Falla - 41
111. Enescu - 40
111. Glinka - 40
113. Poulenc - 39
114. Rodrigo - 38
114. Stockhausen - 38
116. Victoria - 36
117. Piazzolla - 35
118. Couperin - 34
118. Dowland - 34
118. Schumann, Clara - 34
121. Lalo - 33
122. Buxtehude - 32
123. Albinoni - 30
123. Gorecki - 30
123. Offenbach - 30
126. Bernstein - 28
127. Takemitsu - 27
128. Byrd - 26
129. Alwyn - 25
129. Schütz - 25
131. Clementi - 24
131. Crumb - 24
131. Gombert - 24
131. Paganini - 24
135. Harbison - 23
136. Brian - 22
137. Bach, W.F. - 21
138. Leifs - 20
139. Alkan - 19
139. Lutoslawski - 19
141. Berio - 18
141. Graun - 18
141. Tveitt - 18
144. Berwald - 17
144. Mompou - 17
144. Xenakis - 17
147. Granados - 16
147. Locatelli - 16
147. Skalkottas - 16
150. MacDowell - 15
151. Hartmann - 14
151. Hasse - 14
151. Perotin - 14
151. Wohlfahrt - 14
155. Henze - 13
156. Golijov - 12
157. Beach - 10
157. Rudland - 10
157. Szymanowski - 10
160. Cherubini - 9
161. Charpentier - 8
161. Gabrieli - 8
161. Marcello - 8
161. Schreker - 8
161. Zemlinsky - 8
161. Zimmerman - 8
167. Khachaturian - 7
167. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
167. Wyschnegradsky - 7
170. Abel - 6
170. Cage - 6
170. Carter - 6
170. Eberl - 6
170. Heinichen - 6
170. Meyerbeer - 6
170. Stamitz - 6
177. Gubaidulina - 5
177. Sorabji - 5
177. Veress - 5
180. Allegri - 4
180. Brouwer - 4
180. Ferneyhough - 4
183. Simpson - 3
184. Danzi - 2
184. Hovhaness - 2
184. Torelli - 2
187. Holmboe - 1
187. Krenek - 1
187. Monti - 1
187. Strauss I, Johann - 1
187. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
192. Czerny - -3
193. Schobert - -15


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Rameau = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Alessandro Scarlatti = +8
Spohr = +7
Jan Ladislav Dussek = +6
Christoph Graupner = +5
Hummel = +4
Hasse = +3
Telemann = +2
Graun = +1

Ippolitov-Ivanov = -3


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10

Finally some recognition for this great composer (mostly from me but still ).


----------



## crmoorhead

10. pts Weber, von
9 Adams
8 Respighi
7 J. Strauss II
6. Donizetti
5. Glazunov
4. Glass
3. Gershwin
2. Rameau
1. Couperin


----------



## Toddlertoddy

A comparison of Trout's list here:

This thread:

1. Bach +1
2. Mozart +1
3. Beethoven -2
4. Schubert 0
5. Brahms 0
6. Wagner +1
7. Haydn +2
8. Schumann +10
9. Handel +3
10. Mahler -2
11. Mendelssohn +8
12. Debussy -2
13. Dvořák 0
14. Chopin -3
15. Tchaikovsky -9
16. Stravinsky 0
17. Ravel +3
18. Prokofiev -3
19. Shostakovich -2
20. Strauss, Richard +1
21. Liszt +1
22. Bartók +2
23. Verdi +3
24. Monteverdi +3
25. Sibelius -11
26. Vivaldi +4
27. Berlioz +4
28. Bruckner -3
29. Saint-Saëns +4
30. Elgar +4
31. Fauré *+19*
32. Vaughan Williams 0
33. Rachmaninoff -10
34. Puccini +1
35. Purcell *+29*
36. Scarlatti, Domenico +9
37. Mussorgsky 0
38. Schoenberg -10 I hate you all
39. Grieg -10
40. Palestrina -2
41. Messiaen +7
42. Janáček +4
43. Britten +4
44. Rossini -5
45. Rimsky-Korsakov -9
46. Josquin -5
47. Berg -4
48. Bach, C.P.E. +11
49. Barber -7
50. Bach, J.C. *?? (>50 ranks higher)* Not even in top 100 in Trout's list

Other thread:

1.	Ludwig van Beethoven
2.	Johann Sebastian Bach
3.	Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
4.	Franz Schubert
5.	Johannes Brahms
6.	Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
7.	Richard Wagner
8.	Gustav Mahler
9.	Joseph Haydn
10.	Claude Debussy
11.	Frédéric Chopin
12.	George Frideric Handel
13.	Antonín Dvořák
14.	Jean Sibelius
15.	Sergei Prokofiev
16.	Igor Stravinsky
17.	Dmitri Shostakovich
18.	Robert Schumann
19.	Felix Mendelssohn
20.	Maurice Ravel
21.	Richard Strauss
22.	Franz Liszt
23.	Sergei Rachmaninoff
24.	Béla Bartók
25.	Anton Bruckner
26.	Giuseppe Verdi
27.	Claudio Monteverdi
28.	Arnold Schoenberg
29.	Edvard Grieg
30.	Antonio Vivaldi
31.	Hector Berlioz
32.	Ralph Vaughan Williams
33.	Camille Saint-Saëns
34.	Edward Elgar
35.	Giacomo Puccini
36.	Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
37.	Modest Mussorgsky
38.	Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina
39.	Gioachino Rossini
40.	Anton Webern
41.	Josquin des Prez
42.	Samuel Barber
43.	Alban Berg
44.	György Ligeti
45.	Domenico Scarlatti
46.	Leoš Janáček
47.	Benjamin Britten
48.	Oliver Messiaen
49.	Carl Nielsen
50.	Gabriel Fauré

JC Bach. That is all.

Sidenote: Is Purcell really that great?


----------



## Toddlertoddy

My vote:

10 Webern
9 Scriabin
8 Bizet
7 Varese
6 Ives
5 Gesualdo
4 Schnittke
3 Satie
2 Copland

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## science

10 Perotin
9 Scriabin 
8 Webern 
7 Gabrieli
6 Locatelli 
5 Strauss J II
4 Cherubini 
3 Golijov 
2 Charpentier 
1 Albeniz
-3 Schobert


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

I have my own Top 100 list of greatest composers, and have it framed in a guilded frame and security protected, hung on my bedroom wall. It makes me sleep well at night.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Czerny · 3
Smetana · 2
Holst · 1

Minzblatt von Zillerthal · -3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Minzblatt von Zillerthal · -3


:lol: Was he (or is he) from planet Uranus?


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Rameau +10
2. Biber +9
3. Johann Strauss +8
4. Gesualdo +7
5. Alessandro Scarlatti +6
6. Donizetti +5
7. Delius +4
8. Bellini +3
9. Hildegard of Bingen +2
10. Couperin +1

Ligeti -3

Did I get it "right" this time? :devil:


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. Rameau +10
> 2. Biber +9
> 3. Johann Strauss +8
> 4. Gesualdo +7
> 5. Alessandro Scarlatti +6
> 6. Donizetti +5
> 7. Delius +4
> 8. Bellini +3
> 9. Hildegard of Bingen +2
> 10. Couperin +1
> 
> Ligeti -3
> 
> Did I get it "right" this time? :devil:


*You most certainly did not!!!*


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*Ligeti* + 10


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Lully
8. Rameau
7. Biber
6. Buxtehude
5. Szymanowski
4. Medtner
3. Ives
2. Copland
1. Falla


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau - 379
53. Nielsen - 363
54. Ligeti - 348
55. Scriabin - 347
56. Villa-Lobos - 332
57. Webern - 331
58. Bizet - 281
58. Lully - 281
60. Satie - 271
61. Copland - 254
62. Telemann - 251
63. Weber - 227
64. Adams - 226
65. Strauss II, Johann - 217
66. Glass - 216
67. Gesualdo - 165
68. Arnold - 163
69. Respighi - 158
70. Alfven - 149
71. Pärt - 138
72. Haydn, Michael - 133
73. Donizetti - 132
73. Ives - 132
75. Varèse - 131
76. Machaut - 129
77. Reich - 128
77. Rott - 128
79. Schnittke - 120
80. Glazunov - 117
81. Hummel - 112
82. Delius - 108
83. Hildegard - 106
83. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 106
85. Bellini - 94
86. Borodin - 92
87. Boccherini - 91
88. Bax - 89
89. Biber - 88
90. Smetana - 86
91. Gershwin - 85
92. Penderecki - 83
92. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 83
94. Novak - 80
94. Wolf - 80
96. Holst - 79
97. Massenet - 71
98. Boulez - 69
99. Albeniz - 68
100. Tallis - 67
100. Walton - 67
102. Franck - 66
103. Vogelweide - 65
104. Medtner - 62
105. Martinu - 59
106. Corelli - 58
107. Spohr - 56
108. Hindemith - 53
109. Zelenka - 44
110. Falla - 42
111. Enescu - 40
111. Glinka - 40
113. Poulenc - 39
114. Buxtehude - 38
114. Rodrigo - 38
114. Stockhausen - 38
117. Couperin - 36
117. Victoria - 36
119. Piazzolla - 35
120. Dowland - 34
120. Schumann, Clara - 34
122. Lalo - 33
123. Albinoni - 30
123. Gorecki - 30
123. Offenbach - 30
126. Bernstein - 28
127. Takemitsu - 27
128. Byrd - 26
129. Alwyn - 25
129. Schütz - 25
131. Clementi - 24
131. Crumb - 24
131. Gombert - 24
131. Paganini - 24
131. Perotin - 24
136. Harbison - 23
137. Brian - 22
137. Locatelli - 22
139. Bach, W.F. - 21
140. Leifs - 20
141. Alkan - 19
141. Graun - 19
141. Lutoslawski - 19
144. Berio - 18
144. Tveitt - 18
146. Berwald - 17
146. Hasse - 17
146. Mompou - 17
146. Xenakis - 17
150. Granados - 16
150. Skalkottas - 16
152. Gabrieli - 15
152. Golijov - 15
152. MacDowell - 15
152. Szymanowski - 15
156. Hartmann - 14
156. Wohlfahrt - 14
158. Cherubini - 13
158. Henze - 13
160. Beach - 10
160. Charpentier - 10
160. Rudland - 10
163. Marcello - 8
163. Schreker - 8
163. Zemlinsky - 8
163. Zimmerman - 8
167. Khachaturian - 7
167. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
167. Wyschnegradsky - 7
170. Abel - 6
170. Cage - 6
170. Carter - 6
170. Dussek - 6
170. Eberl - 6
170. Heinichen - 6
170. Meyerbeer - 6
170. Stamitz - 6
178. Graupner - 5
178. Gubaidulina - 5
178. Sorabji - 5
178. Veress - 5
182. Allegri - 4
182. Brouwer - 4
182. Ferneyhough - 4
185. Simpson - 3
186. Danzi - 2
186. Hovhaness - 2
186. Torelli - 2
189. Holmboe - 1
189. Krenek - 1
189. Monti - 1
189. Strauss I, Johann - 1
189. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
194. Schobert - -18


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

We must work hard to get *Ligeti* in ASAP otherwise I will leave this site forever. :tiphat:


----------



## Lisztian

10. Ligeti.
9. Scriabin.
8. MacDowell. 
7. Albeniz.
6. Alkan.
5. Bellini.


----------



## Conor71

10 Villa-Lobos
9 Ligeti
8 Borodin


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Reich - 9
Adams - 8
Penderecki - 7
Gershwin - 6
Glass - 5
Pärt - 4
Crumb - 3
Cage - 2
Webern - 1


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin: 10

Scriabin should finish higher than all composers in previous post.


----------



## Trout

10 Ives
9 Varese
8 Copland
7 Borodin
6 Respighi
5 Tallis
4 Lutoslawski


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria +10	
Walton	+9	
Delius	+8	
Parry	+7	
Bax	+6	
Tallis	+5	
Holst	+4	
Tippet	+3	
Weber	+2	
Syzmanowski +1	
Ligeti	-3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Copland
8.	Bizet
7.	Weber
6.	Borodin
5.	Strauss II, Johann
4.	Adams
3.	Nielsen
2.	Scriabin
1.	Haydn, Michael

-3. Ligeti


----------



## Jared

10. Beethoven
9. Bach
8. Brahms
7. Mozart
6. Haydn
5. Schubert
4. Mahler
3. Sibelius
2. Mendelssohn
1. Schumann

-3. Wagner


----------



## pjang23

Jared said:


> 10. Beethoven
> 9. Bach
> 8. Brahms
> 7. Mozart
> 6. Haydn
> 5. Schubert
> 4. Mahler
> 3. Sibelius
> 2. Mendelssohn
> 1. Schumann
> 
> -3. Wagner


Thanks for participating Jared. All of the above composers have permanent spots on the list (achieved by reaching 400 points) and cannot be voted for. You may vote for any composer which has not reached 400 points so far.

10 Weber
9 Part
8 Machaut
7 Johann Strauss II
6 Webern
5 Scriabin
4 Lully
3 Rameau
2 Copland
1 Villa-Lobos
-3 Arnold

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau - 382
53. Scriabin - 373
54. Ligeti - 371
55. Nielsen - 366
56. Villa-Lobos - 343
57. Webern - 338
58. Bizet - 289
59. Lully - 285
60. Copland - 273
61. Satie - 271
62. Telemann - 261
63. Weber - 246
64. Adams - 238
65. Strauss II, Johann - 229
66. Glass - 221
67. Gesualdo - 165
68. Respighi - 164
69. Arnold - 160
70. Pärt - 151
71. Alfven - 149
72. Ives - 142
73. Varèse - 140
74. Machaut - 137
74. Reich - 137
76. Haydn, Michael - 134
77. Donizetti - 132
78. Rott - 128
79. Schnittke - 120
80. Glazunov - 117
81. Delius - 116
82. Borodin - 113
83. Hummel - 112
84. Hildegard - 106
84. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 106
86. Bellini - 99
87. Bax - 95
88. Boccherini - 91
88. Gershwin - 91
90. Penderecki - 90
91. Biber - 88
92. Smetana - 86
93. Holst - 83
93. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 83
95. Novak - 80
95. Wolf - 80
97. Tallis - 77
98. Walton - 76
99. Albeniz - 75
100. Massenet - 71
101. Boulez - 69
102. Franck - 66
103. Vogelweide - 65
104. Medtner - 62
105. Martinu - 59
106. Corelli - 58
107. Spohr - 56
108. Hindemith - 53
109. Victoria - 46
110. Zelenka - 44
111. Falla - 42
112. Enescu - 40
112. Glinka - 40
114. Poulenc - 39
115. Buxtehude - 38
115. Rodrigo - 38
115. Stockhausen - 38
118. Couperin - 36
119. Piazzolla - 35
120. Dowland - 34
120. Schumann, Clara - 34
122. Lalo - 33
123. Albinoni - 30
123. Gorecki - 30
123. Offenbach - 30
126. Bernstein - 28
127. Crumb - 27
127. Takemitsu - 27
129. Byrd - 26
130. Alkan - 25
130. Alwyn - 25
130. Schütz - 25
133. Clementi - 24
133. Gombert - 24
133. Paganini - 24
133. Perotin - 24
137. Harbison - 23
137. Lutoslawski - 23
137. MacDowell - 23
140. Brian - 22
140. Locatelli - 22
142. Bach, W.F. - 21
143. Leifs - 20
144. Graun - 19
145. Berio - 18
145. Tveitt - 18
147. Berwald - 17
147. Hasse - 17
147. Mompou - 17
147. Xenakis - 17
151. Granados - 16
151. Skalkottas - 16
151. Szymanowski - 16
154. Gabrieli - 15
154. Golijov - 15
156. Hartmann - 14
156. Wohlfahrt - 14
158. Cherubini - 13
158. Henze - 13
160. Beach - 10
160. Charpentier - 10
160. Rudland - 10
163. Cage - 8
163. Marcello - 8
163. Schreker - 8
163. Zemlinsky - 8
163. Zimmerman - 8
168. Khachaturian - 7
168. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
168. Parry - 7
168. Wyschnegradsky - 7
172. Abel - 6
172. Carter - 6
172. Dussek - 6
172. Eberl - 6
172. Heinichen - 6
172. Meyerbeer - 6
172. Stamitz - 6
179. Graupner - 5
179. Gubaidulina - 5
179. Sorabji - 5
179. Veress - 5
183. Allegri - 4
183. Brouwer - 4
183. Ferneyhough - 4
186. Simpson - 3
186. Tippet - 3
188. Danzi - 2
188. Hovhaness - 2
188. Torelli - 2
191. Holmboe - 1
191. Krenek - 1
191. Monti - 1
191. Strauss I, Johann - 1
191. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
196. Schobert - -18


----------



## StevenOBrien

NOO, POOR CZERNY! WHO WOULD DO SUCH A THING?!

10 - Glass
9 - Bizet
8 - Lully
7 - Scriabin
6 - Satie
5 - Weber
4 - Gershwin
3 - Schnittke
2 - Holst
1 - Poulenc

-3 - Czerny


----------



## Jared

^^ very sorry pjang, I hadn't picked up that subtlety... 

OK, it is glaringly obvious that there's relatively little love for Earlier music on here; Victoria on 46 points?? He was probably the most gifted Composer of the Renaissance AND he had an anniversary last year!! Here goes, then:

Victoria 10
Biber 9
Tallis 8
Hummel 7
Buxtehude 6
Byrd 5
Scarlatti A 4
Charpentier 3
Zelenka 2
Gabrieli (Giovanni, I presume? or Andrea?) 1

Boulez -3

how will that do???


----------



## pjang23

Jared said:


> ^^ very sorry pjang, I hadn't picked up that subtlety...
> 
> OK, it is glaringly obvious that there's relatively little love for Earlier music on here; Victoria on 46 points?? He was probably the most gifted Composer of the Renaissance AND he had an anniversary last year!! Here goes, then:
> 
> Victoria 10
> Biber 9
> Tallis 8
> Hummel 7
> Buxtehude 6
> Byrd 5
> Scarlatti A 4
> Charpentier 3
> Zelenka 2
> Gabrieli (Giovanni, I presume? or Andrea?) 1
> 
> Boulez -3
> 
> how will that do???


Looks good! And yes, it is Giovanni Gabrieli.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Rameau = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Alessandro Scarlatti = +8
Graupner = +7
Dussek = +6
Telemann = +5
Spohr = +4
Donizetti = +3
Graun = +2
Hasse = +1

Ippolitov-Ivanov = -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Scriabin
9 Gesualdo
8 Webern
7 Copland
6 Varese
5 Crumb

-3 Rameau


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Weber, von
9 Donizetti
8 Adams
7 J Strauss II
6 Glass
5 Rameau
4 Telemann
3 Respighi
2 Couperin
1 Copland


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*Ligeti* +10


----------



## science

10 Szymanowski 
9 Perotin
8 Zelenka 
7 Gombert
6 Buxtehude
5 Granados
4 Cherubini
3 Golijov
2 Khachaturian 
1 Sorabji


----------



## Rapide

10 Boccherini
9 Dussek
8 Lalo
7 Rameau
6 Szymanowski
5 M. Haydn
4 Albinoni
3 Borodin
2 Zemlinsky
1 Victoria
-3 Varese


----------



## tdc

I believe Rameau is now in so....

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Lully
8. Webern
7. Charpentier
6. Schnittke
5. Buxtehude
4. Copland
3. Ives
2. Albeniz
1. Dowland


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings: Rameau is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin - 390
54. Ligeti - 381
55. Nielsen - 366
56. Webern - 354
57. Villa-Lobos - 353
58. Lully - 302
59. Bizet - 298
60. Copland - 285
61. Satie - 277
62. Telemann - 270
63. Weber - 261
64. Adams - 246
65. Glass - 237
66. Strauss II, Johann - 236
67. Gesualdo - 174
68. Respighi - 167
69. Arnold - 160
70. Pärt - 151
71. Alfven - 149
72. Haydn, Michael - 148
73. Ives - 145
74. Donizetti - 144
75. Varèse - 143
76. Machaut - 137
76. Reich - 137
78. Schnittke - 129
79. Rott - 128
80. Hummel - 119
81. Glazunov - 117
82. Borodin - 116
82. Delius - 116
84. Hildegard - 106
85. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 103
86. Boccherini - 101
87. Bellini - 99
88. Biber - 97
89. Bax - 95
89. Gershwin - 95
89. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 95
92. Penderecki - 90
93. Smetana - 86
94. Holst - 85
94. Tallis - 85
96. Novak - 80
96. Wolf - 80
98. Albeniz - 77
99. Walton - 76
100. Massenet - 71
101. Boulez - 66
101. Franck - 66
103. Vogelweide - 65
104. Medtner - 62
105. Spohr - 60
106. Martinu - 59
107. Corelli - 58
108. Victoria - 57
109. Buxtehude - 55
110. Zelenka - 54
111. Hindemith - 53
112. Falla - 42
113. Lalo - 41
114. Enescu - 40
114. Glinka - 40
114. Poulenc - 40
117. Couperin - 38
117. Rodrigo - 38
117. Stockhausen - 38
120. Dowland - 35
120. Piazzolla - 35
122. Albinoni - 34
122. Schumann, Clara - 34
124. Perotin - 33
125. Crumb - 32
125. Szymanowski - 32
127. Byrd - 31
127. Gombert - 31
129. Gorecki - 30
129. Offenbach - 30
131. Bernstein - 28
132. Takemitsu - 27
133. Alkan - 25
133. Alwyn - 25
133. Schütz - 25
136. Clementi - 24
136. Paganini - 24
138. Harbison - 23
138. Lutoslawski - 23
138. MacDowell - 23
141. Brian - 22
141. Locatelli - 22
143. Bach, W.F. - 21
143. Dussek - 21
143. Granados - 21
143. Graun - 21
147. Charpentier - 20
147. Leifs - 20
149. Berio - 18
149. Golijov - 18
149. Hasse - 18
149. Tveitt - 18
153. Berwald - 17
153. Cherubini - 17
153. Mompou - 17
153. Xenakis - 17
157. Gabrieli - 16
157. Skalkottas - 16
159. Hartmann - 14
159. Wohlfahrt - 14
161. Henze - 13
162. Graupner - 12
163. Beach - 10
163. Rudland - 10
163. Zemlinsky - 10
166. Khachaturian - 9
167. Cage - 8
167. Marcello - 8
167. Schreker - 8
167. Zimmerman - 8
171. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
171. Parry - 7
171. Wyschnegradsky - 7
174. Abel - 6
174. Carter - 6
174. Eberl - 6
174. Heinichen - 6
174. Meyerbeer - 6
174. Sorabji - 6
174. Stamitz - 6
181. Gubaidulina - 5
181. Veress - 5
183. Allegri - 4
183. Brouwer - 4
183. Ferneyhough - 4
186. Simpson - 3
186. Tippet - 3
188. Danzi - 2
188. Hovhaness - 2
188. Torelli - 2
191. Holmboe - 1
191. Krenek - 1
191. Monti - 1
191. Strauss I, Johann - 1
191. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
196. Czerny - -3
197. Schobert - -18


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Scriabin
9 Webern
8 Schobert
7 Copland
6 Varese
5 Gershwin

-3 M. Haydn

Scriabin is in


----------



## pjang23

Toddlertoddy said:


> 10 Scriabin
> 9 Webern
> 8 Schobert
> 7 Copland
> 6 Varese
> 5 Gershwin
> 
> -3 M. Haydn
> 
> Scriabin is in


I will assume this is your vote for July 10.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

Woops, I don't even remember that I voted today.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria	+10	
Syzmanowski	+9	
Parry	+8	
Bridge	+7	
Holst	+6	
Tippet	+5	
Brian (Havergal)	+4	
Boccherini	+3	
Tallis	+2	
Byrd	+1	
Ligeti	-3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Johann Strauss II +10






Love the inimitable Erich Kunz!

2. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber +9






3. Carlo Gesualdo +8






4. Alessandro Scarlatti +7






5. Gaetano Donizetti +6






*****


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

6. Jules Massenet +5






7. Jean-Baptiste Lully +4






8. Jan Dismas Zelenka +3






9. Georges Bizet +2






10. Dieterich Buxtehude +1






Ligeti -3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Lovely examples there, StlukesguildOhio.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*Ligeti* +10
J. Strauss II -3


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Corelli · 3
Holst · 2
Smetana · 1


Paracelsus di Santiago Wimsfeldt · -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Ligeti - 10
Reich - 9
Adams - 8
Penderecki - 7
Gershwin - 6
Webern - 5
Glass - 4
Pärt - 3
Crumb - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Glass
9 - Lully
8 - Bizet
7 - Copland
6 - Satie
5 - Weber
4 - Johann Strauss II
3 - Hummel
2 - Ives
1 - Poulenc

-3 - Schobert


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Copland
8.	Bizet
7.	Weber
6.	Borodin
5.	Strauss II, Johann
4.	Adams
3.	Nielsen
2.	Haydn, Michael
1.	Gesualdo


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10


----------



## DeepR

Scriabin got in before Ligeti. 
There is justice in this world after all.


----------



## pjang23

10 Machaut
9 Victoria
8 Holst
7 Donizetti
6 Hummel
5 Weber
4 Copland
3 J Strauss II
2 Biber
1 Tallis
-3 *Ligeti* 

Current Standings: Scriabin is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti - 392
55. Nielsen - 379
56. Webern - 368
57. Villa-Lobos - 353
58. Lully - 323
59. Bizet - 316
60. Copland - 312
61. Satie - 293
62. Telemann - 287
63. Weber - 278
64. Adams - 258
65. Strauss II, Johann - 255
66. Glass - 251
67. Gesualdo - 183
68. Respighi - 176
69. Arnold - 160
70. Donizetti - 157
71. Pärt - 154
72. Alfven - 149
72. Varèse - 149
74. Haydn, Michael - 147
74. Ives - 147
74. Machaut - 147
77. Reich - 146
78. Rott - 134
79. Schnittke - 129
80. Hummel - 128
81. Borodin - 122
82. Glazunov - 117
83. Delius - 116
84. Biber - 108
85. Gershwin - 106
85. Hildegard - 106
87. Boccherini - 104
88. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 103
89. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 102
90. Holst - 101
91. Bellini - 99
92. Penderecki - 97
93. Bax - 95
94. Tallis - 88
95. Smetana - 87
96. Wolf - 85
97. Novak - 80
98. Albeniz - 77
99. Massenet - 76
99. Victoria - 76
99. Walton - 76
102. Vogelweide - 69
103. Boulez - 66
103. Franck - 66
105. Medtner - 62
106. Corelli - 61
107. Spohr - 60
108. Martinu - 59
109. Zelenka - 57
110. Buxtehude - 56
111. Hindemith - 53
112. Falla - 42
113. Lalo - 41
113. Poulenc - 41
113. Szymanowski - 41
116. Enescu - 40
116. Glinka - 40
118. Couperin - 38
118. Rodrigo - 38
118. Stockhausen - 38
121. Dowland - 35
121. Piazzolla - 35
123. Albinoni - 34
123. Crumb - 34
123. Schumann, Clara - 34
126. Perotin - 33
127. Byrd - 32
128. Gombert - 31
129. Gorecki - 30
129. Offenbach - 30
131. Bernstein - 28
132. Takemitsu - 27
133. Brian - 26
134. Alkan - 25
134. Alwyn - 25
134. Schütz - 25
137. Clementi - 24
137. Paganini - 24
139. Harbison - 23
139. Lutoslawski - 23
139. MacDowell - 23
142. Locatelli - 22
143. Bach, W.F. - 21
143. Dussek - 21
143. Granados - 21
143. Graun - 21
147. Charpentier - 20
147. Leifs - 20
149. Berio - 18
149. Golijov - 18
149. Hasse - 18
149. Tveitt - 18
153. Berwald - 17
153. Cherubini - 17
153. Mompou - 17
153. Xenakis - 17
157. Gabrieli - 16
157. Skalkottas - 16
159. Parry - 15
160. Hartmann - 14
160. Wohlfahrt - 14
162. Henze - 13
163. Graupner - 12
164. Beach - 10
164. Rudland - 10
164. Zemlinsky - 10
167. Cage - 9
167. Khachaturian - 9
169. Marcello - 8
169. Schreker - 8
169. Tippet - 8
169. Zimmerman - 8
173. Bridge - 7
173. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
173. Wyschnegradsky - 7
176. Abel - 6
176. Carter - 6
176. Eberl - 6
176. Heinichen - 6
176. Meyerbeer - 6
176. Sorabji - 6
176. Stamitz - 6
183. Gubaidulina - 5
183. Veress - 5
185. Allegri - 4
185. Brouwer - 4
185. Ferneyhough - 4
188. Simpson - 3
189. Danzi - 2
189. Hovhaness - 2
189. Torelli - 2
192. Holmboe - 1
192. Krenek - 1
192. Monti - 1
192. Strauss I, Johann - 1
192. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
197. Czerny - -3
198. Schobert - -13


----------



## Renaissance

Beethoven - 10
J.S.Bach - 9
Schubert - 8
Dvorak - 7
Bartok - 6
Telemann - 5
Purcell - 4
Ravel - 3
Debussy - 2
Rautavaara - 1


----------



## pjang23

Renaissance said:


> *Beethoven - 10
> J.S.Bach - 9
> Schubert - 8
> Dvorak - 7
> Bartok - 6*
> Telemann - 5
> Purcell - 4
> *Ravel - 3
> Debussy - 2*
> Rautavaara - 1


Thanks for joining in Renaissance. The bolded composers have already obtained permanent spots on the list by reaching 400 points, and cannot be voted for. You may vote for any composer which has not reached 400 points.


----------



## Jared

pjang23 said:


> Thanks for joining in Renaissance. The bolded composers have already obtained permanent spots on the list by reaching 400 points, and cannot be voted for. You may vote for any composer which has not reached 400 points.


as should the mighty Purcell... 

anyway, I'm glad I not the only one who didn't read the instructions properly, and judging by the quality of Renaissance's 1st posts, I'd say I was in pretty good company... ...


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Telemann = +9
Alessandro Scarlatti = +8
Hummel = +7
Spohr = +6
Hasse = +5
Graun = +4
Byrd = +3
Dowland = +2
Graupner = +1

Varèse = -3


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*Ligeti* +10
Nielsen -3


----------



## pjang23

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> *Ligeti* +10
> Nielsen -3


Since you've voted for July 10 already, this vote will not be counted.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

pjang23 said:


> Since you've voted for July 10 already, this vote will not be counted.


That ain't fair. It's July 11 where I am.


----------



## pjang23

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> That ain't fair. It's July 11 where I am.


Ah okay. Didn't realize our times were that different.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

pjang23 said:


> Ah okay. Didn't realize our times were that different.


Forget time zones. So long as the time between the two posts is no less than 24 hours.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Ah well. Make my vote for tomorrow.


----------



## pjang23

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Forget time zones. So long as the time between the two posts is no less than 24 hours.





ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Ah well. Make my vote for tomorrow.


Yup, I will count the vote at midnight (in 7 hours).


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Weber
9. Bellini
8. Donizetti
7. Adams
6. Gershwin
5. Cage
4. Couperin
3. J, Strauss II
2. Arnold
1. Respighi


----------



## science

10 Glass
9 Strauss J II
8 Adams
7 Weber
6 Telemann
5 Satie
4 Copland
3 Bizet
2 Lully 
1 Villa-Lobos
-3 Schobert


----------



## tdc

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Lully
8. Buxtehude
7. Biber
6. Schnittke
5. Brian
4. Szymanowski
3. Copland
2. Ives
1. Takemitsu


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Johann Strauss II + 10






Erich Kunz and Nicolai Gedda!

2. Gaetano Donizetti +9






3. Jean-Baptiste Lully +8






4. Vincenzo Bellini +7






5 Georges Bizet +6






*****


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

6. Carlo Gesualdo +5






7. Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber +4






8. Jules Massenet +3






9. Alessandro Scarlatti +2






10. Perotin +1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Ligeti -3


----------



## Trout

10 Tallis
9 Copland
8 Hindemith
7 Varese
6 Webern
5 Respighi
4 Ives
3 Borodin
2 Byrd
1 Machaut

-3 Glass


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Ligeti +10


Oh that is a sensational work! It lifts me up into musical paradise!


----------



## Rapide

10 Bizet
9 Czerny
8 Wolf
7 Smetana
6 Lully
5 Penderecki
4 Donizetti
3 Boulez
2 Pärt
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria	+10 (still scandalously under-rated). 
Franck	+9	
Spohr	+8	
Buxtehude	+7	
Tippet	+6	
Syzmanowski	+5	
Delius	+4	
Bridge	+3	
Holst	+2	
Bax	+1	
Ippolitov-Ivanov	-3 (definitely over-rated at present)


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti - 399
55. Nielsen - 376
56. Webern - 374
57. Villa-Lobos - 364
58. Lully - 348
59. Bizet - 335
60. Copland - 328
61. Telemann - 302
62. Satie - 298
63. Weber - 295
64. Strauss II, Johann - 277
65. Adams - 273
66. Glass - 258
67. Gesualdo - 188
68. Respighi - 182
69. Donizetti - 178
70. Arnold - 162
71. Haydn, Michael - 157
72. Pärt - 156
73. Ives - 153
74. Alfven - 150
74. Varèse - 150
76. Machaut - 148
77. Reich - 146
78. Hummel - 135
78. Schnittke - 135
80. Rott - 134
81. Borodin - 125
82. Delius - 120
83. Biber - 119
84. Glazunov - 117
85. Bellini - 115
86. Gershwin - 112
86. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 112
88. Hildegard - 106
89. Boccherini - 104
90. Holst - 103
91. Penderecki - 102
92. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 100
93. Tallis - 98
94. Bax - 96
95. Smetana - 94
96. Wolf - 93
97. Victoria - 86
98. Novak - 80
99. Massenet - 79
100. Albeniz - 77
101. Walton - 76
102. Franck - 75
103. Spohr - 74
104. Buxtehude - 71
105. Boulez - 69
105. Vogelweide - 69
107. Medtner - 62
108. Corelli - 61
108. Hindemith - 61
110. Martinu - 59
111. Zelenka - 57
112. Szymanowski - 50
113. Couperin - 42
113. Falla - 42
115. Lalo - 41
115. Poulenc - 41
117. Enescu - 40
117. Glinka - 40
119. Rodrigo - 38
119. Stockhausen - 38
121. Byrd - 37
121. Dowland - 37
123. Piazzolla - 35
124. Albinoni - 34
124. Crumb - 34
124. Perotin - 34
124. Schumann, Clara - 34
128. Brian - 31
128. Gombert - 31
130. Gorecki - 30
130. Offenbach - 30
132. Bernstein - 28
132. Takemitsu - 28
134. Alkan - 25
134. Alwyn - 25
134. Graun - 25
134. Schütz - 25
138. Clementi - 24
138. Paganini - 24
140. Harbison - 23
140. Hasse - 23
140. Lutoslawski - 23
140. MacDowell - 23
144. Locatelli - 22
145. Bach, W.F. - 21
145. Dussek - 21
145. Granados - 21
148. Charpentier - 20
148. Leifs - 20
150. Berio - 18
150. Golijov - 18
150. Tveitt - 18
153. Berwald - 17
153. Cherubini - 17
153. Mompou - 17
153. Xenakis - 17
157. Gabrieli - 16
157. Skalkottas - 16
159. Parry - 15
160. Cage - 14
160. Hartmann - 14
160. Tippet - 14
160. Wohlfahrt - 14
164. Graupner - 13
164. Henze - 13
166. Beach - 10
166. Bridge - 10
166. Rudland - 10
166. Zemlinsky - 10
170. Khachaturian - 9
171. Marcello - 8
171. Schreker - 8
171. Zimmerman - 8
174. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
174. Wyschnegradsky - 7
176. Abel - 6
176. Carter - 6
176. Czerny - 6
176. Eberl - 6
176. Heinichen - 6
176. Meyerbeer - 6
176. Sorabji - 6
176. Stamitz - 6
184. Gubaidulina - 5
184. Veress - 5
186. Allegri - 4
186. Brouwer - 4
186. Ferneyhough - 4
189. Simpson - 3
190. Danzi - 2
190. Hovhaness - 2
190. Torelli - 2
193. Holmboe - 1
193. Krenek - 1
193. Monti - 1
193. Strauss I, Johann - 1
193. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
198. Schobert - -16


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*so close*

.

.


----------



## Conor71

Villa-Lobos 10
Ligeti 9
Part 8


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Glass
9 - Bizet
8 - Lully
7 - Copland
6 - Weber
5 - Satie
4 - Johann Strauss II
3 - Hummel
2 - Holst
1 - Schnittke


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Smetana · 2
Corelli · 1


Schäumlein Zitronenmarmeladt · -3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann	
9.	Copland	
8.	Bizet	
7.	Weber	
6.	Borodin	
5.	Strauss II, Johann	
4.	Adams	
3.	Nielsen	
2.	Haydn, Michael	
1.	Gesualdo


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - 10 pts
Arnold - 9
Alfven - 8
Novak -7
Alwyn - 6
Bizet - 5
Machaut - 4

Just comparing lists again with the website I referenced earlier...things are diverging a bit now. Eight of their Top 53 do not make TC's Top 53 (Weber-63, Lully-58, Ives-74, Hindemith-111, Copland-60, Couperin-118, Byrd-127, Satie-61).

On the other hand, the eight on TC's Top 53 that are not on their Top 53 are: Britten-54, Scriabin-57, D Scarlatti-59, CPE Bach-65, Janacek-70, Berg-72, Barber-93, JC Bach-unlisted.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Ippolitov-Ivanov	-3 (definitely over-rated at present)

Especially when my first response to seeing his name was "Who?":lol:


----------



## crmoorhead

Vesteralen said:


> Nielsen - 10 pts
> Arnold - 9
> Alfven - 8
> Novak -7
> Alwyn - 6
> Bizet - 5
> Machaut - 4
> 
> Just comparing lists again with the website I referenced earlier...things are diverging a bit now. Eight of their Top 53 do not make TC's Top 53 (Weber-63, Lully-58, Ives-74, Hindemith-111, Copland-60, Couperin-118, Byrd-127, Satie-61).
> 
> On the other hand, the eight on TC's Top 53 that are not on their Top 53 are: Britten-54, Scriabin-57, D Scarlatti-59, CPE Bach-65, Janacek-70, Berg-72, Barber-93, JC Bach-unlisted.


I think that the further a composer is down the list is, however, the less their position is set in stone. There is little differnece between 45 and 65 compared to 5 and 25. Saying that, the voting process still needs to be completed as some that are higher up will be replaced by those that are currently low in rankings. I predict some major movement in the ranks 60-75.


----------



## Vesteralen

crmoorhead said:


> I think that the further a composer is down the list is, however, the less their position is set in stone. There is little differnece between 45 and 65 compared to 5 and 25. Saying that, the voting process still needs to be completed as some that are higher up will be replaced by those that are currently low in rankings. I predict some major movement in the ranks 60-75.


That wouldn't surprise me either. And, I agree, the disparity in the lists in the lower positions is no real surprise. I just think it's interesting to see a Hindemith, Couperin or Byrd score so high on the other list in comparison with TC, while other composers like Barber and JC Bach are the reverse.

Of course, the TC list isn't even representative of TC itself when you really look at it. Many posters who are quite active on other threads never even appear on this one. If posting in this thread were mandatory for all TC members (and, believe me, I'm not suggesting that), I imagine even _this_ list would look much different than it does.


----------



## Very Senior Member

What worries me about the TC list is that this continual stirring of the pot, day after day, may not be improving the rankings but actually making them worse. This could come about, for example, if the composers who are well down the list at present may attract a greater abundance of new voters who happen to like these composers in preference to the composers higher up the ranks, and thus the lower ranked composers get pushed up to replace the higher ones. This damaging effect would be reinforced if some of the initial set of voters dropped out, as seems to be occurring to some extent.


----------



## Very Senior Member

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Ippolitov-Ivanov	-3 (definitely over-rated at present) Especially when my first response to seeing his name was "Who?":lol:


 He's not the only dubious character on the list, but perhaps the most highly over-rated one at present.


----------



## Jared

^^ hey, Victoria & Tallis are both struggling to get into the Top 100 Composers section... the credibility of the whole thing was shot to pieces a long long time ago...


----------



## Very Senior Member

Jared said:


> ^^ hey, Victoria & Tallis are both struggling to get into the Top 100 Composers section... the credibility of the whole thing was shot to pieces a long long time ago...


 I know that. And I agree that it's a poor reflection on this exercise, given some of the relative non-entities who are currently above them in the ranks. It was me who first mentioned the absence of Victoria from the list long after this exercise started, and who has probably awarded more points to Victoria than anyhone else has done. However, regardless of individual composers, the fact remains that there could be a problem if the people who join the "party" late systematically favour composers well down the list rather than those much higher up the list, and even more so than if the old members begin to disappear. This wouldn't help the outcome because the structure of voters would become biased, given the actions of all previous voters. I'm not saying that this has definitely happened but it could happen, and I reckon is more likely to happen rather new voters voting neutrally with regard to the voting actions of existing members.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

^^ hey, Victoria & Tallis are both struggling to get into the Top 100 Composers section... the credibility of the whole thing was shot to pieces a long long time ago... 

I think many of these composers will soon be addressed. During the earlier stage of the voting, many members were using their votes strategically to assure that composers they deemed as major figures did not end up ranked behind the likes of Messiaen or others who had the support of one or two obsessed voters.

I mean if we look at the current standings what are we to make of the fact that Villa-Lobos is ranked above Lully, Bizet, Johann Strauss, Gesualdo, and Donizetti, Biber, Bellini, and Alessandro Scarlatti, while further down Ippolitov-Ivanov is above Tallis, Victoria, Massenet, Buxtehude, and Boulez (at 105... I probably wouldn't even place him 105th among conductors) is ranked above Hindemith, Corelli, Zelenka, Szymanowski, Couperin, Offenbach, Schütz, Charpentier, Zemlinski, etc...?

The reality is that this list is but a popularity contest among interested members. As might be expected there is a huge bias in favor of the Romantic era, and a bias... or simply a lack of appreciation (in many instances based upon little knowledge or experience of certain genre and musical eras) against opera, the "classical era", the Baroque... and earlier music. Machaut at 76 and Hildegard of Bingen... currently at 88... are the highest ranked medieval composers, and if we count Monteverdi as a Baroque composer, then only Palestrina among the whole of the Renaissance, made it into the Top-40... at number 40.


----------



## Jared

^^ I'm not going to argue too much... if you took Wagner out of the Top 10 and moved the others up 1, then the Top 10 wouldn't look radically different to what I would personally offer up... it's just that after that, like you say, it all goes to hell in a hand-cart.. :devil:


----------



## Very Senior Member

Vesteralen said:


> Just comparing lists again with the website I referenced earlier...things are diverging a bit now ...


 The other list you are referring to is the list produced by DDD (Digital Dream Door) in late 2006. I was an active member of DDD in those days and know quite a bit about the unfolding story of their "Greatest Composers" list. There was plenty of discussion among the members on rankings among the top 20, and things got very heated at times, but the selections were not made by voting as such. In essence, all the selections were made by the moderator in charge of the exercise, who based his decisions on the opinions of the members plus his own desk reserach using a variety of other material by which he assessed "greatness". Active interest in the rankings amongst the membership fizzled out after around position 20, and the moderator was left largely to make it all up on his own after that. The main disputed area was over Wagner, for Wagner was originally (in the earlier DDD list circa 2002/3 vintage) around position 9. Some wanted him moved up a lot to reflect Goulding's rank No 4, but others argued for a lower position around the 9/10 spot. There was an endless argument about this, but eventually the Wagnerians won the day and he finished up at positiion 4. Quite a few people (myself included) were pretty disappointed about this, but hey it was only a bit of fun, innit?


----------



## pjang23

I have to agree that the voting system could have been better thought out mathematically (fewer positive votes for one) though it wouldn't make sense to change that in the middle of the game. I would not associate this list with the TC Recommended projects.

10 Victoria
9 Machaut
8 Holst
7 Hummel
6 Webern
5 Weber
4 Bellini
3 Part
2 Tallis
1 Nielsen
-3 Arnold

Current Standings: Ligeti is in

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Nielsen - 390
56. Webern - 380
57. Villa-Lobos - 374
58. Lully - 364
59. Bizet - 357
60. Copland - 344
61. Telemann - 319
62. Satie - 313
62. Weber - 313
64. Strauss II, Johann - 286
65. Adams - 277
66. Glass - 268
67. Respighi - 191
68. Gesualdo - 189
69. Donizetti - 178
70. Arnold - 168
71. Pärt - 167
72. Machaut - 161
73. Haydn, Michael - 159
74. Alfven - 158
75. Ives - 153
76. Varèse - 150
77. Reich - 146
78. Hummel - 145
79. Rott - 140
80. Schnittke - 136
81. Borodin - 131
82. Delius - 120
83. Bellini - 119
83. Biber - 119
85. Glazunov - 117
86. Holst - 116
87. Gershwin - 112
87. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 112
89. Hildegard - 106
90. Boccherini - 104
91. Penderecki - 102
92. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 100
92. Tallis - 100
94. Wolf - 98
95. Bax - 96
95. Smetana - 96
95. Victoria - 96
98. Novak - 87
99. Massenet - 79
100. Albeniz - 77
101. Walton - 76
102. Franck - 75
103. Spohr - 74
104. Vogelweide - 73
105. Buxtehude - 71
106. Boulez - 69
107. Corelli - 62
107. Medtner - 62
109. Hindemith - 61
110. Martinu - 59
111. Zelenka - 57
112. Szymanowski - 50
113. Couperin - 42
113. Falla - 42
115. Lalo - 41
115. Poulenc - 41
117. Enescu - 40
117. Glinka - 40
119. Rodrigo - 38
119. Stockhausen - 38
121. Byrd - 37
121. Dowland - 37
123. Piazzolla - 35
124. Albinoni - 34
124. Crumb - 34
124. Perotin - 34
124. Schumann, Clara - 34
128. Alwyn - 31
128. Brian - 31
128. Gombert - 31
131. Gorecki - 30
131. Offenbach - 30
133. Bernstein - 28
133. Takemitsu - 28
135. Alkan - 25
135. Graun - 25
135. Schütz - 25
138. Clementi - 24
138. Paganini - 24
140. Harbison - 23
140. Hasse - 23
140. Lutoslawski - 23
140. MacDowell - 23
144. Locatelli - 22
145. Bach, W.F. - 21
145. Dussek - 21
145. Granados - 21
148. Charpentier - 20
148. Leifs - 20
150. Berio - 18
150. Golijov - 18
150. Tveitt - 18
153. Berwald - 17
153. Cherubini - 17
153. Mompou - 17
153. Xenakis - 17
157. Gabrieli - 16
157. Skalkottas - 16
159. Parry - 15
160. Cage - 14
160. Hartmann - 14
160. Tippet - 14
160. Wohlfahrt - 14
164. Graupner - 13
164. Henze - 13
166. Beach - 10
166. Bridge - 10
166. Rudland - 10
166. Zemlinsky - 10
170. Khachaturian - 9
171. Marcello - 8
171. Schreker - 8
171. Zimmerman - 8
174. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
174. Wyschnegradsky - 7
176. Abel - 6
176. Carter - 6
176. Czerny - 6
176. Eberl - 6
176. Heinichen - 6
176. Meyerbeer - 6
176. Sorabji - 6
176. Stamitz - 6
184. Gubaidulina - 5
184. Veress - 5
186. Allegri - 4
186. Brouwer - 4
186. Ferneyhough - 4
189. Simpson - 3
190. Danzi - 2
190. Hovhaness - 2
190. Torelli - 2
193. Holmboe - 1
193. Krenek - 1
193. Monti - 1
193. Strauss I, Johann - 1
193. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
198. Schobert - -16


----------



## crmoorhead

Very Senior Member said:


> Some wanted him moved up a lot to reflect Goulding's rank No 4, but others argued for a lower position around the 9/10 spot.


I was going to post this list, but my copy of the book is at home. Especially important are the explanatory notes to his list. 1-3 are permament, 4-10 are semi-permanent , 11-20 are flexible and 21-50 are entirely flexible and can be even left out of the top 50 altogether. There is a long list of honorable mentions and what he calls 'near starters' who came very close to making the final list. This should be included as a disclaimer on our own list.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

The one that strikes me odd is JC Bach and why he's greater than Boccherini.

10 Gesualdo
9 Webern
8 Machaut

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Toddlertoddy said:


> The one that strikes me odd is JC Bach and why he's greater than Boccherini.


Well, why not start voting Boccherini then? I certainly didn't see you voting for Boccherini much, other than remain "puzzled".


----------



## Toddlertoddy

Because I don't care for classical composers as much


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

I do what I preach, I vote for composers I want to see high up in the list irrespective of what other voters might think. Everyone is free to vote and free to demerit with the 3 points.

Telemann = +10
Alessandro Scarlatti = +9
Boccherini = +8
Dussek = +7
Graun = +6
Hasse = +5
Anton Rubinstein = +4
Johann Joachim Quantz = +3
Spohr = +2
Torelli = +1

Ippolitov-Ivanov = -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

crmoorhead said:


> I was going to post this list, but my copy of the book is at home. Especially important are the explanatory notes to his list. 1-3 are permament, 4-10 are semi-permanent , 11-20 are flexible and 21-50 are entirely flexible and can be even left out of the top 50 altogether. There is a long list of honorable mentions and what he calls 'near starters' who came very close to making the final list. This should be included as a disclaimer on our own list.


 Goulding's Top 50 list is probably the "grand-daddy" of all recent forum-based greatest composer lists. It was influential in shaping opinion on the DDD site back in 2006, and it looks like it's had its effect on subsequent polls here at T-C and at a few other classical music forums, as embodied in lists such as these. I don't mind admitting that my tastes have been largely shaped by what I perceive is the considered opinion of knowledgeable classical music fans. I also tend to take note of the kind of classical music they play on radio stations like Radio 3, and have learned a good deal about classical music from that source. Material by the likes of Ligeti (I choose his name merely as an example) doesn't often appear on Radio 3, but from what I've heard of it I find it pretty naff. I feel a bit sorry for those people who know little else and think it's wonderful. This system hasn't let me down as I'm generally very happy with the overall result.


----------



## tdc

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I mean if we look at the current standings what are we to make of the fact that Villa-Lobos is ranked above Lully, Bizet, Johann Strauss, Gesualdo, and Donizetti, Biber, Bellini, and Alessandro Scarlatti.


What is so surprising about that? It might seem surprising to you because it doesn't reflect your personal tastes, but I don't think your tastes line-up with general opinions in this matter. Simply reading through the Wiki pages, or some cd booklets will reveal Villa-Lobos is more respected generally than many of the composers you just listed after him. I find Johann Strauss II's name way more of an eye-sore myself than most other composers in the top 100...he composed 'light music' nothing more. Johann Strauss II coming in in the 60's to me is more ridiculous than Messiaen being in the 40's. But I am not too concerned with it looking at this exercise in a similar fashion to HC. Its '*TC's* Greatest Composers List, simply reflecting the views of the voters who wished to participate, and while I find myself in agreement with many of your posts, your views on this list seem to indicate whatever your personal tastes are happen to be _the_ canon. I would point out that many of your own picks have been quite controversial among other participants.


----------



## crmoorhead

@VSM Goulding's book is ideal for the beginner, but it is probably a bit dated now. Still, I agree with your sentiment that the recommendations of other, more experienced listeners is the best and most reliable way to find your way. One objection I would have with the books suggested list is his inclusion of composers which seem to be very hard to find compositions by and the exclusion of others, namely no mention at all of Samuel Barber in the entire book. But it can't all be perfect, and it's still a damned good list or suggested works for someone who doesn't know much more than Beethoven, Bach, Mozart and a few others.


----------



## mmsbls

I think all of us will ultimately have "issues" with this list. I doubt anyone will agree even roughly (to within a few places) with every selection. Some of our disagreements will stem from our personal tastes while others will arise from our view of how the classical music community as a whole would vote. Others will point to their understanding of the consensus of expert opinion. Since personal taste, community averages, and "expert" opinions don't coincide, we'll always have disagreements. 

What strikes me is how much consensus there is in these types of lists. Lists of both composers and works show a remarkable (to me) degree of accord. People differ but for the most part people seem rather pleased with the results. I'm not sure how many people would strongly disagree with our top 20, but generally the issues raised have been with a few composers and even then it's often whether Brahms should be higher than Schubert not whether Schubert should be in the top 20. 

I realize that those who have strong differences likely won't take part in games such as these. I still feel there is remarkable overlap in musical taste and assessments.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

pjang23 said:


> 54. Ligeti


My work here is done. :tiphat:


----------



## Rapide

10 Bizet
9 Telemann
8 Wolf
7 Smetana
6 Lully
5 Penderecki
4 Rubinstein
3 Boulez
2 Pärt
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## science

10 Glass
9 Adams
8 Strauss, Johann II
7 Weber
6 Satie
5 Telemann
4 Copland
3 Bizet
2 Lully
1 Villa-Lobos 
-3 Respighi


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Weber
9 Adams
8 Donizetti
7 Bellini
6 Glass
5 Nielsen
4 Arnold
3 Cage
2 J Strauss II
1 Respighi


----------



## MJongo

10. Ives
9. Varese
8. Stockhausen
7. Lutoslawski
6. Part
5. Boulez
4. Carter
3. Reich
-3. Glass


----------



## Trout

10 Copland
9 Ives
8 Tallis
7 Hindemith
6 Krommer
5 Webern
4 Borodin
3 Varese
2 Corelli
1 Victoria
-3 Glass


----------



## pjang23

Current Standings:

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Nielsen - 395
56. Webern - 394
57. Villa-Lobos - 375
58. Lully - 372
59. Bizet - 370
60. Copland - 358
61. Telemann - 343
62. Weber - 330
63. Satie - 319
64. Strauss II, Johann - 296
65. Adams - 295
66. Glass - 278
67. Gesualdo - 199
68. Respighi - 189
69. Donizetti - 186
70. Pärt - 175
71. Arnold - 172
71. Ives - 172
73. Machaut - 169
74. Alfven - 159
74. Varèse - 159
76. Haydn, Michael - 156
77. Reich - 149
78. Hummel - 145
79. Rott - 140
80. Schnittke - 136
81. Borodin - 135
82. Bellini - 126
83. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 121
84. Delius - 120
85. Biber - 119
86. Glazunov - 117
87. Holst - 116
88. Boccherini - 112
88. Gershwin - 112
90. Tallis - 108
91. Penderecki - 107
92. Hildegard - 106
92. Wolf - 106
94. Smetana - 103
95. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 97
95. Victoria - 97
97. Bax - 96
98. Novak - 87
99. Massenet - 79
100. Albeniz - 77
100. Boulez - 77
102. Spohr - 76
102. Walton - 76
104. Franck - 75
105. Vogelweide - 73
106. Buxtehude - 71
107. Hindemith - 68
108. Corelli - 64
109. Medtner - 62
110. Martinu - 59
111. Zelenka - 57
112. Szymanowski - 50
113. Stockhausen - 46
114. Couperin - 42
114. Falla - 42
116. Lalo - 41
116. Poulenc - 41
118. Enescu - 40
118. Glinka - 40
120. Rodrigo - 38
121. Byrd - 37
121. Dowland - 37
123. Piazzolla - 35
124. Albinoni - 34
124. Crumb - 34
124. Perotin - 34
124. Schumann, Clara - 34
128. Alwyn - 31
128. Brian - 31
128. Gombert - 31
128. Graun - 31
132. Gorecki - 30
132. Lutoslawski - 30
132. Offenbach - 30
135. Bernstein - 28
135. Dussek - 28
135. Hasse - 28
135. Takemitsu - 28
139. Alkan - 25
139. Schütz - 25
141. Clementi - 24
141. Paganini - 24
143. Harbison - 23
143. MacDowell - 23
145. Locatelli - 22
146. Bach, W.F. - 21
146. Granados - 21
148. Charpentier - 20
148. Leifs - 20
150. Berio - 18
150. Golijov - 18
150. Tveitt - 18
153. Berwald - 17
153. Cage - 17
153. Cherubini - 17
153. Mompou - 17
153. Xenakis - 17
158. Gabrieli - 16
158. Skalkottas - 16
160. Parry - 15
161. Hartmann - 14
161. Tippet - 14
161. Wohlfahrt - 14
164. Graupner - 13
164. Henze - 13
166. Beach - 10
166. Bridge - 10
166. Carter - 10
166. Rudland - 10
166. Zemlinsky - 10
171. Khachaturian - 9
172. Marcello - 8
172. Rubinstein - 8
172. Schreker - 8
172. Zimmerman - 8
176. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
176. Wyschnegradsky - 7
178. Abel - 6
178. Czerny - 6
178. Eberl - 6
178. Heinichen - 6
178. Krommer - 6
178. Meyerbeer - 6
178. Sorabji - 6
178. Stamitz - 6
186. Gubaidulina - 5
186. Veress - 5
188. Allegri - 4
188. Brouwer - 4
188. Ferneyhough - 4
191. Quantz - 3
191. Simpson - 3
191. Torelli - 3
194. Danzi - 2
194. Hovhaness - 2
196. Holmboe - 1
196. Krenek - 1
196. Monti - 1
196. Strauss I, Johann - 1
196. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
201. Schobert - -16


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Stockhausen +10
Carter +9
Nyman +8
Farrenc +7
Webern +6
Villa-Lobos +5
Adams +4
Krenek +3
Xenakis +2
Ives +1

J. Strauss I -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

What is so surprising about that? It might seem surprising to you because it doesn't reflect your personal tastes, but I don't think your tastes line-up with general opinions in this matter. Simply reading through the Wiki pages, or some cd booklets will reveal Villa-Lobos is more respected generally than many of the composers you just listed after him.

Wili pages and cd booklets (Villa-Lobos discs, no doubt) are the standard measure of aesthetic merit? Villa-Lobos is ranked above Lully, Bizet, Johann Strauss, Gesualdo, and Donizetti, Biber, Bellini, and Alessandro Scarlatti. Which of those composers is so clearly a lesser figure than Villa-Lobos? Donizetti and Bellini between them *are* _bel canto_ opera. Gesualdo was one of the greatest composers of the Renaissance and one of the most innovative composers in terms of tonality of all time. Biber stands just beneath Bach, Handel, and Haydn among the great Baroque composers. Rameau is already in, yet it is arguable that Lully was a far more important composer... literally giving birth to French opera. The wealth of Alessandro Scarlatti's efforts are just coming to light... not unlike Handel some 20 or 30 years ago. And Johann Strauss? Of course the typical means of dismissing him is to call him "lightweight". Of course the same meaningless criticism is often applied to Chopin, Puccini, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and even Mozart. Some might even address such criticism to Villa-Lobos. What makes a composer lightweight... the fact that his work is entertaining and popular? Composers such as Brahms, Wagner, Richard Strauss, Ravel, and even Mahler admired and/or were inspired by his music. His operas/operettas are an absolute pleasure. Certainly he does not belong among the Top-20... but the Top-100? Undoubtedly.

None of these comments should be taken as proof that I somehow dislike Villa-Lobos. I absolutely love this disc:










...while I find myself in agreement with many of your posts, your views on this list seem to indicate whatever your personal tastes are happen to be the canon. I would point out that many of your own picks have been quite controversial among other participants.

Again... it is neither that I dislike Villa-Lobos, nor that I imagine my personal canon as the ultimate measure of music. In reality, the Top-20 are pretty close to my own favorites... with a few shifts here and there. My question is "Why the absolute dominance of a single 130 (or so) years? Why does a composer such as Messiaen or Ligeti or Villa-Lobos... who quite likely wouldn't even make the list of the Ten Greatest Composers of the 20th Century make this list... while not a single Medieval composer has yet to be recognized, only one Renaissance composer, and a scant small handful from the Baroque and the "Classical Era"? Are all the second and third tier composers of Romanticism and Post-Romanticism (and early Modernism) really better than all but one or two of the composers of other eras.

Again... I suspect a poll done era by era (The Best Renaissance Composers, The Best Baroque Composers, etc...) might have been a better approach.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria	+10 
Syzmanowski	+9	
Weber	+8	
Holst	+7	
Delius	+6	
Walton	+5	
Bax	+4	
Tippet	+3	
Smetana	+2	
Buxtehude	+1	
Ippolitov-Ivanov	-3


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Again... I suspect a poll done era by era (The Best Renaissance Composers, The Best Baroque Composers, etc...) might have been a better approach.


Couldn't disagree more. I suspect you haven't been new to classical music in so long you've forgotten what it's like.

I would have preferred to be presented with a single list of composers of all eras, if possible. You break them up by era and it leaves me wondering things like, "How deep in the Classical Era composers do I need to be before I go to Modern composers? Should I listen to #7 on the Renaissance list before or after listening to #7 on the Baroque list, and those before or after listening to #7 on the Romantic list? Or perhaps I should get through the top 10 romantic composers before getting to #7 on the Renaissance list? And then of course there are marginal cases, such as the guys who won't get as much support on the "romantic" list because many participants would consider them modern, but won't get as much on the "modern" list for the opposite reason. We have the same problem breaking up the recommended lists into symphonies, concertos of various kinds, sonatas of various kinds, etc... _All arbitrary fragmentation of such lists creates distortion._ The less arbitrary, the better.

If this kind of activity has any purpose at all it is to help us (and others) decide what to explore next. I've been the guy who knew more of Tan Dun and Aho and Regnart than about Haydn and J. Strauss II and Hindemith. It's hard to share with people.

For the sake of people who might benefit from the list - the _only *ethical*_ way to construct a list like this is to have a single list, going from "most likely to be discussed" to "least likely to be discussed." If your theory is that Josquin should be known before Boccherini or Glass, then he should be on the master list ahead of them. Putting him on a separate list in order to increase his stature only creates problems for the people who need help.

Of course we aren't a serious enough group of people to set about a task like that - this is just for our jollies. But the more serious we want to be about it, the less arbitrary and more considerate we have to be. And frankly, of course, this all amounts to things I wrote long ago and had rather quote than type:



> Our list is a work of art: it's supposed to be interesting for us, we people who already know all these works. The goal is to create a list that we (who already know how it is basically supposed to go) can look at and say, "Well, that is certainly interesting. I really appreciate how much more Bruckner there is on this list than on others; and bravo for not putting the 1812 Overture in the top hundred. But goodness me, dearies, are we sure we don't want a little Enescu on the list? He's neglected, you know."...
> 
> The assumption is that the novice can go somewhere for recommendations, just don't bother us while we're making our delightfully idiosyncratic lists! We don't care enough to know better; we were beginners once, perhaps we even despise our past selves who weren't already fully aware of (let alone fashionably disgusted by) the Radetzky March or Carmina Burana, and we're not about to do anything to help them. Lord, they should just know already. ...
> 
> The entire point is that I am not supposed to be able to educate myself sufficiently. It is fine, you say, for me to flop around in ignorance listening to whatever comes my way, because, you imply, I will never be nearly educated about it all anyway. Your superiority to me, in this scheme, is not an accident of our educations or talents, but something essential to who I am and who you are. Your condescension is permanent and unalterable. You desire me to be unable to educate myself....
> 
> In other words, another example of: if you need to be told about the Rite of Spring, this list of recommendations is not for you. This list is a work of art, supposed to be interesting for us, we people who already know all these works. The goal is to create a list that we (who already know how it is basically supposed to go) can look at and say, "Well, that is certainly interesting. I really appreciate how the Alpine Symphony beat out all the usual suspects. It's neglected, you know."...
> 
> *The thing is, no one told me about the Radetzky March because of an implicit snobbishness: if you need that recommended to you, you're not worth my time. *


http://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/science/950-recommendations.html


----------



## Very Senior Member

I agree that it’s much better to build up a list of best composers by covering all time periods at once rather than by examining each time period in turn. It would be “cart before the horse” doing things the other way round, as it would be nigh impossible to shuffle the various composers selected by each time period into a composite whole, which is what matters to most people I would imagine. 

I also agree that there is merit in trying to identify the best composers, but one wonders how often it is necessary to repeat the task, as it has already been done quite comprehensively on T-C before, as recently as the RBrittain exercise last year, not to mention the existence of several well-known external lists. All such lists say much the same thing, at least over the relevant range of the top 25 composers, which is about as far as most newcomers are, I guess, likely to want to go. 

The benefit of such lists is, I guess, mainly to newcomers to classical music who may not have much idea about the best way to go about starting a decent collection and avoiding wasted time and money spent material they may not like for years, if at all. It’s also a way by which those already with the “knowledge” – or rather believe they have the knowledge, however limited and extremely laughable it may be in some cases - can, if they choose, slag off each other’s opinion on the appropriate rankings. 

In my case I found glancing at the Goulding list of Top 50 composers very influential. By that time I had already become familiar with about 15-20 of the main composers, and I found the other recommendations on Goulding’s list worthwhile exploring. Once the rudiments of what’s what are grasped the rest can be done by following one’s nose. 

Where there might appear to be scope for further poll-type activity on T-C is a listing of the “best” works by each of the main composers. This exercise was done on the DDD site immediately after they completed the listing for “greatest composers”, and was done composer by composer one at a time starting with Beethoven who topped their list. They produced lists of either the top 20 or top 10 works for each of some 40 composers, before the whole thing ran out of steam. I realise of course that there is the “project” results which to some extent deal with this issue.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Lully · 8
Telemann · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Smetana · 2
Corelli · 1


Cornetto Blasebalg · -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Adams - 9
Penderecki - 8
Webern - 7
Gershwin - 6
Glass - 5
Satie - 4
Pärt - 3
Crumb - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## Vesteralen

Nielsen - !0 pts.

I think that should do it...

Bizet - 9
Arnold - 8
Liefs - 7
Harbison - 6
Alfven - 5
Arnold 4
Novak - 3
Machaut -2
Gesualdo - 1


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Glass
9 - Bizet
8 - Lully
7 - Copland
6 - Weber
5 - Corelli
4 - Satie
3 - Reich
2 - Hummel
1 - Poulenc


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

For the sake of people who might benefit from the list - the only ethical way to construct a list like this is to have a single list, going from "most likely to be discussed" to "least likely to be discussed." If your theory is that Josquin should be known before Boccherini or Glass, then he should be on the master list ahead of them.

The problem, as it stands, is that the list is being compiled by a group of individuals that may or may not represent the taste of the public at large... but in no way is there any attempt at a fair or balanced representation of music across the whole of music history. And this is to be expected as the poll is essentially a tally of our favorite composers and not of the "greatest" or most important (however that is measured).

Romanticism has long been the most popular musical era, and as might be expected, this bias shows up in our list. How many participants have seriously delved into Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque... or even post-1940s music? Can we expect a true quality list... a survey of Western Music available for the novice when less-than'major Romantic-era composers are placed well above some of the most important figures of other eras? How does someone like Ippolitov-Ivanov (who!?) end up ranked above Victoria, Massenet, Buxtehude, and any number of others? Am I to believe that Ippolitov-Ivanov or any number of other minor Romantics are actually greater composers than the finest Renaissance, Medieval, or post-1940s composer?

It is as if we were compiling a list of the greatest painters of all time and 90% of those listed fell between Turner and Matisse? No Vermeer. No Giotto. No Raphael. Certainly no Mark Rothko.

There is also the reality that such lists don't really matter after we get down from the Top-20 or so. We can easily argue that placing Ligeti ahead of Mozart is simply absurd (except to a single certain member)... but Boccherini vs Glass vs Zelenka? I agree that there is a certain frustration for the novice in attempting to come to terms with this whole and complex world of music. Certainly, I turned to the various lists, looked at record reviews, read books... but ultimately it all came down to listening for myself. Other than my own tastes (and this applies only to myself) I can see no other infallible source for what is the "Best" or the "Greatest".


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Copland
8.	Bizet
7.	Weber
6.	Borodin
5.	Strauss II, Johann
4.	Adams
3.	Haydn, Michael
2.	Gesualdo
1.	Tallis


----------



## science

Very Senior Member said:


> In my case I found glancing at the Goulding list of Top 50 composers very influential.


Maybe I need to give Goulding another shot. I loved his opera book, great work beginning to end, only perhaps it could've used a better index or table or contents.

Gould's "top composers" book of his was the first book I got when I was exploring classical music, and I was so disappointed. _The Vintage Guide to Classical Music_, _The Essential Canon of Classical Music_, and _Classical Music 101_ helped me so much more.

But so many people here say it helped them a lot, maybe I just wasn't looking at it right.

The book that I want to exist, to the best of my knowledge does not exist. I'd like something subtitled, "The 1500 Works of Classical Music You're Most Likely to Discuss with Your Friends." Of course the main title would have to be catchier. Perhaps something like, "The Aspiring Snob's Shortcut to Classical Music."

It would begin with a forward, a dummy's guide to the basic terms of pitch, melody, harmony, key, rhythm, meter - perhaps ten pages long, not too detailed. Then an introduction, a very brief history of music, including the development of the main instruments and forms and basic performance practices - perhaps fifty pages long, very basic, not too detailed.

And then the main attraction: not just a list of the 1500 works of classical music that you're most likely to discuss with your friends, but a description of each work's structure (a kind of listening guide), its historical significance and influence, perhaps some very basic performance considerations, and where applicable, a mention of and in some cases even a description of the most famous recordings of it. Then a mention of four or five other works to explore if this work strikes one - including works not dealt with in this book (so that we can be recommended more than just 1500 works - we probably won't do Ge Gan-Ru's "Fall of Baghdad" but we can mention it under Crumb's "Black Angels"). Probably every work should get at least a page of text, and obviously some would get up to six or seven pages.

(As I'm imagining a book in English, non-English should probably be given in the original language [in a Romanized script of course], but with English translation. This isn't a minor point - I think one thing that helps to discourage many Americans - who usually don't speak languages like "Mexican" or "Swiss" - is foreign titles. So they need to be translated, but for recognition in conversation, given in original languages.)

Obviously the ranking would not be at all precise, but that hardly matters at all, as long as it's approximately prioritized so that things like Beethoven's Fifth and Ninth, the 1812 Overture, Grieg's music for Peer Gynt, Mendelssohn's music for A Midsummer Night's Dream, Handel's Messiah, Bolero, Carmina Burana, the Four Seasons, Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance, the Moonlight Sonata, Carmen, Rigoletto, The Nutcracker, Mouret's Rondeau, the Blue Danube, and The Rite of Spring are in the top few dozen.... A totally snob-free approach, just what you're most likely to hear and talk about if you're an ordinary person. (Cage's 4'33" at #1? Based on my internet fora experience, I'd say maybe so!)

By the top eighty or so we'll be past most of the stuff like Pachelbel's Canon and dealing with stuff you're unlikely to hear in cartoons or TV commercials, and what you're most likely to hear and talk about as you make the transition from ordinary to somewhat experienced - Grieg's piano concerto, Liszt's piano sonata, Haydn's op. 76 quartets, Britten's War Requiem, Tallis' Spem in Alium, Beethoven's triple concerto, Monteverdi's Vespers, Strauss' Elektra.

By four hundred or so we'll be along to stuff like Rzewski's "People United" variations, Korngold's Die tote Stat, Byrd's Infelix Ego, Zelenka's Missa Votiva.

By the time we reach 1500 works, we'll have gone fairly deep, plenty of room there for the main works of Gombert and Gesualdo and Gluck and Godowski and Granados and Gounod and Gubaidulina and so on. (I imagine things like Chopin's Nocturnes dealt with in a single entry, or else we'd have a much longer book, and some very short entries along the way.)

And finally, an appendix with brief biographies of a few dozen composers, those with so many works on the list that repeating the biographical information within the main part of the book would become redundant and inefficient. The first index should list the works alphabetically by composer, and another index list them chronologically (or approximately so, where that is impossible).

So, what is that, six thousand pages? Four volumes the size of the Penguin Guide...

OK, maybe a website would be better. But this is what I want to exist, and it doesn't yet, and that disappoints and frustrates me.


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> For the sake of people who might benefit from the list - the only ethical way to construct a list like this is to have a single list, going from "most likely to be discussed" to "least likely to be discussed." If your theory is that Josquin should be known before Boccherini or Glass, then he should be on the master list ahead of them.
> 
> The problem, as it stands, is that the list is being compiled by a group of individuals that may or may not represent the taste of the public at large... but in no way is there any attempt at a fair or balanced representation of music across the whole of music history. And this is to be expected as the poll is essentially a tally of our favorite composers and not of the "greatest" or most important (however that is measured).
> 
> Romanticism has long been the most popular musical era, and as might be expected, this bias shows up in our list. How many participants have seriously delved into Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque... or even post-1940s music? Can we expect a true quality list... a survey of Western Music available for the novice when less-than'major Romantic-era composers are placed well above some of the most important figures of other eras? How does someone like Ippolitov-Ivanov (who!?) end up ranked above Victoria, Massenet, Buxtehude, and any number of others? Am I to believe that Ippolitov-Ivanov or any number of other minor Romantics are actually greater composers than the finest Renaissance, Medieval, or post-1940s composer?
> 
> It is as if we were compiling a list of the greatest painters of all time and 90% of those listed fell between Turner and Matisse? No Vermeer. No Giotto. No Raphael. Certainly no Mark Rothko.
> 
> There is also the reality that such lists don't really matter after we get down from the Top-20 or so. We can easily argue that placing Ligeti ahead of Mozart is simply absurd (except to a single certain member)... but Boccherini vs Glass vs Zelenka? I agree that there is a certain frustration for the novice in attempting to come to terms with this whole and complex world of music. Certainly, I turned to the various lists, looked at record reviews, read books... but ultimately it all came down to listening for myself. Other than my own tastes (and this applies only to myself) *I can see no other infallible source for what is the "Best" or the "Greatest"*.


Of course that's not what I asked for, at all.

And I think there might be a good source, in album sales statistics, if I could get ahold of them.

Edit: And I guarantee your list of painters would be biased by eras, only differently. In the top 50, it'll be primarily 1450-1650 (Italy and the Low Countries) and 1875-1950. And almost no way Rothko (let alone Rublev) makes the top 50. Rossetti will beat them both by at least 30 spots!


----------



## mmsbls

science said:


> Maybe I need to give Goulding another shot. I loved his opera book, great work beginning to end, only perhaps it could've used a better index or table or contents.
> 
> Gould's "top composers" book of his was the first book I got when I was exploring classical music, and I was so disappointed. _The Vintage Guide to Classical Music_, _The Essential Canon of Classical Music_, and _Classical Music 101_ helped me so much more.
> 
> But so many people here say it helped them a lot, maybe I just wasn't looking at it right.


The first book on classical music I got was also Goulding's book, and I _loved_ it. I later bought the _The Essential Canon of Classical Music_ and found that wonderful as well. Perhaps you knew more classical music than I did when I started. At that time I expected Dvorak to sound very unpleasant (maybe like a Bartok quartet though I didn't know them at the time). I simply took the 5 works in each composer's starter kit and listened. I was simply stunned by how many I loved. Finding so many works I loved so readily was incredible and got me hooked. I gradually moved on to other Goulding recommended works until I felt ready to explore more on my own. I also liked his humor and thought the amount of information was at the right level for me at the time.



science said:


> The book that I want to exist, to the best of my knowledge does not exist. I'd like something subtitled, "The 1500 Works of Classical Music You're Most Likely to Discuss with Your Friends." Of course the main title would have to be catchier. Perhaps something like, "The Aspiring Snob's Shortcut to Classical Music."


If someone ever wrote a book with your title, I would probably buy it on site (because of the title) without looking inside.  I know of several books that are mildly similar to this idea, but focused on recordings not works. Your book idea would be much more valuable for someone like myself. I have looked for something like that on and off and had to settle for things like _The Gramophone Classical Music Guide_ instead.

Goulding said he wrote his book because that's what he wanted when he started exploring classical music, but it didn't exist. Maybe that's the incentive to create a book like your idea. TC members created the wonderful TCFI, fugue inventory, online. Maybe TC members could work on an online version of "The Aspiring Snob's Shortcut to Classical Music." The project would be long, difficult, frustrating (people quitting, death threats, etc.) and if it worked, amazingly rewarding.


----------



## beetzart

Beethoven + 10
Clementi + 9
Haydn + 8
Mozart + 7
JS Bach + 6
Schubert + 5
Tchaikovsky + 4
Dussek + 3
Schumann + 2
Hummel + 1

Schoenberg - 3


----------



## Vesteralen

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Romanticism has long been the most popular musical era, and as might be expected, this bias shows up in our list. How many participants have seriously delved into Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque... or even post-1940s music?


I don't know how common my experience is, and I'm not sure that I can explain it perfectly. But, I have two different styles of listening: 1) Ear listening - where I just bask in the sound of something. It could be a pleasing melody, a rich harmonic texture, a warm recorded sound, the unusual timbre of period instruments, etc. With this type of listening, the identity of the composer is usually not a big issue. Geminiani, Corelli. D Scarlatti, Albinoni...I really don't care much. Hummel, J C Bach, M Haydn...what's the difference? Raff, Berwald, Chopin, Spohr, Moscheles ...it's all the same to me. (This type of listening has its equivalents in jazz and popular music, too.) Altogether this makes up at least 65% of my listening.

2) Heart listening - where the music tells me something, or means something to me, or stirs me, or gets me emotional. (Again, with its equivalents in popular forms of music as well). This kind of music only makes up about 35% or less of my listening. But, here, the identity of the composer (or in the case of popular music - composer/performer or just performer) assumes greater importance.

As it happens, 80% or more of the composers who most often fall into category two for me are from the Romantic or Modern Eras.

So, when someone asks me for a list of favorite composers, I may think of the Classical, Baroque or Renaissance _eras_, but few names actually come to mind. As much as I enjoy listening to JC Bach or Geminiani, I can't think of anything they wrote that really says anything to me. It's ear music. So, the name just refuses to go on the list.

You can tell me that I don't listen to it enough, but I know that's not true. I listen to it a lot. It's still ear music (which I happen to love in its own way - but not in the _same_ way as I love heart music.)


----------



## StevenOBrien

beetzart said:


> Beethoven + 10
> Clementi + 9
> Haydn + 8
> Mozart + 7
> JS Bach + 6
> Schubert + 5
> Tchaikovsky + 4
> Dussek + 3
> Schumann + 2
> Hummel + 1
> 
> Schoenberg - 3


Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, Bach, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Schumann and Schoenberg have already passed the threshold to be on the permanent list, so you don't have to vote for them any more. You can only vote for the people that still have points beside their names (Everyone below Ligeti at this point).


----------



## Vesteralen

mmsbls said:


> Goulding said he wrote his book because that's what he wanted when he started exploring classical music, but it didn't exist. Maybe that's the incentive to create a book like your idea. TC members created the wonderful TCFI, fugue inventory, online. Maybe TC members could work on an online version of "The Aspiring Snob's Shortcut to Classical Music." The project would be long, difficult, frustrating (people quitting, death threats, etc.) and if it worked, amazingly rewarding.


Well, the Classical Music Project is already up to the 600's. Sounds like someone could just begin at the beginning of the list.


----------



## pjang23

10 Weber
9 Lully
8 Part
7 Copland
6 Machaut
5 Victoria
4 Hummel
3 Bellini
2 Biber
1 Tallis
-3 Arnold

Current Standings: Webern and Nielsen are in

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Lully - 397
58. Bizet - 396
59. Copland - 381
60. Villa-Lobos - 380
61. Weber - 361
62. Telemann - 360
63. Satie - 337
64. Adams - 312
65. Strauss II, Johann - 301
66. Glass - 293
67. Gesualdo - 202
68. Respighi - 198
69. Donizetti - 186
69. Pärt - 186
71. Arnold - 177
71. Machaut - 177
73. Ives - 173
74. Alfven - 164
75. Reich - 162
76. Haydn, Michael - 159
76. Varèse - 159
78. Hummel - 151
79. Rott - 146
80. Borodin - 141
81. Schnittke - 136
82. Bellini - 129
83. Delius - 126
83. Holst - 126
85. Biber - 121
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 121
87. Gershwin - 118
88. Glazunov - 117
89. Penderecki - 115
90. Boccherini - 112
90. Victoria - 112
92. Wolf - 111
93. Tallis - 110
94. Smetana - 107
95. Hildegard - 106
96. Bax - 100
97. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
98. Novak - 90
99. Walton - 81
100. Massenet - 79
101. Albeniz - 77
101. Boulez - 77
101. Vogelweide - 77
104. Spohr - 76
105. Franck - 75
106. Buxtehude - 72
107. Corelli - 70
108. Hindemith - 68
109. Medtner - 62
110. Martinu - 59
110. Szymanowski - 59
112. Zelenka - 57
113. Stockhausen - 56
114. Couperin - 42
114. Falla - 42
114. Poulenc - 42
117. Lalo - 41
118. Enescu - 40
118. Glinka - 40
120. Rodrigo - 38
121. Byrd - 37
121. Dowland - 37
123. Crumb - 36
124. Piazzolla - 35
125. Albinoni - 34
125. Perotin - 34
125. Schumann, Clara - 34
128. Alwyn - 31
128. Brian - 31
128. Gombert - 31
128. Graun - 31
132. Gorecki - 30
132. Lutoslawski - 30
132. Offenbach - 30
135. Harbison - 29
136. Bernstein - 28
136. Dussek - 28
136. Hasse - 28
136. Takemitsu - 28
140. Leifs - 27
141. Alkan - 25
141. Schütz - 25
143. Clementi - 24
143. Paganini - 24
145. MacDowell - 23
146. Locatelli - 22
147. Bach, W.F. - 21
147. Granados - 21
149. Charpentier - 20
150. Carter - 19
150. Xenakis - 19
152. Berio - 18
152. Cage - 18
152. Golijov - 18
152. Tveitt - 18
156. Berwald - 17
156. Cherubini - 17
156. Mompou - 17
156. Tippet - 17
160. Gabrieli - 16
160. Skalkottas - 16
162. Parry - 15
163. Hartmann - 14
163. Wohlfahrt - 14
165. Graupner - 13
165. Henze - 13
167. Beach - 10
167. Bridge - 10
167. Rudland - 10
167. Zemlinsky - 10
171. Khachaturian - 9
172. Marcello - 8
172. Nyman - 8
172. Rubinstein - 8
172. Schreker - 8
172. Zimmerman - 8
177. Farrenc - 7
177. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
177. Wyschnegradsky - 7
180. Abel - 6
180. Czerny - 6
180. Eberl - 6
180. Heinichen - 6
180. Krommer - 6
180. Meyerbeer - 6
180. Sorabji - 6
180. Stamitz - 6
188. Gubaidulina - 5
188. Veress - 5
190. Allegri - 4
190. Brouwer - 4
190. Ferneyhough - 4
190. Krenek - 4
194. Quantz - 3
194. Simpson - 3
194. Torelli - 3
197. Danzi - 2
197. Hovhaness - 2
199. Holmboe - 1
199. Monti - 1
199. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
202. Strauss I, Johann - -2
203. Schobert - -16


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Copland
9 Varese
8 Borodin
7 Schnittke
6 Holst
5 Hildegard
4 Bizet

-3 M. Haydn

Bizet is in


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Telemann = +9
Alessandro Scarlatti = +8
Spohr = +7
Bellini = +6
Donizetti = +5
Hummel = +4
Lully = +3
Corelli = +2
Couperin = +1

Varese = -3


----------



## Trout

10 Tallis
9 Copland
8 Ives
7 Byrd
6 Victoria
5 Varese
4 Borodin
3 Krommer
2 Biber
1 Machaut
-3 Glass

I don't think this list should be interpreted as an objective list by any means. So, its idiosyncrasies regarding certain composers ranked over others should not carry that much weight. Since a majority of the people here prefer romantic composers over renaissance composers, these results should not be unexpected.


----------



## tdc

I think Lully, Bizet + Copland are in...

10. Villa-Lobos
9. Biber
8. Buxtehude
7. Tallis
6. Victoria
5. Schnittke
4. Ives
3. Walton
2. Couperin
1. Takemitsu


----------



## science

10 Glass
9 Strauss, Johann II 
8 Adams
7 Satie 
6 Telemann
5 Weber
4 Villa-Lobos
3 Paganini 
2 Granados
1 Khachaturian 
-3 Gesualdo


----------



## pjang23

tdc said:


> I think Lully, Bizet + Copland are in...


Yes they are

Current Results: Bizet, Lully & Copland are in

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos - 394
61. Telemann - 375
62. Weber - 366
63. Satie - 344
64. Adams - 320
65. Strauss II, Johann - 310
66. Glass - 300
67. Gesualdo - 199
68. Respighi - 198
69. Donizetti - 191
70. Pärt - 186
71. Ives - 185
72. Machaut - 178
73. Arnold - 177
74. Varèse - 170
75. Haydn, Michael - 166
76. Alfven - 164
77. Reich - 162
78. Hummel - 155
79. Borodin - 153
80. Schnittke - 148
81. Rott - 146
82. Bellini - 135
83. Biber - 132
83. Holst - 132
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 129
86. Tallis - 127
87. Delius - 126
88. Victoria - 124
89. Gershwin - 118
90. Glazunov - 117
91. Penderecki - 115
92. Boccherini - 112
93. Hildegard - 111
93. Wolf - 111
95. Smetana - 107
96. Bax - 100
97. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
98. Novak - 90
99. Walton - 84
100. Spohr - 83
101. Buxtehude - 80
102. Massenet - 79
103. Albeniz - 77
103. Boulez - 77
103. Vogelweide - 77
106. Franck - 75
107. Corelli - 72
108. Hindemith - 68
109. Medtner - 62
110. Martinu - 59
110. Szymanowski - 59
112. Zelenka - 57
113. Stockhausen - 56
114. Couperin - 45
115. Byrd - 44
116. Falla - 42
116. Poulenc - 42
118. Lalo - 41
119. Enescu - 40
119. Glinka - 40
121. Rodrigo - 38
122. Dowland - 37
123. Crumb - 36
124. Piazzolla - 35
125. Albinoni - 34
125. Perotin - 34
125. Schumann, Clara - 34
128. Alwyn - 31
128. Brian - 31
128. Gombert - 31
128. Graun - 31
132. Gorecki - 30
132. Lutoslawski - 30
132. Offenbach - 30
135. Harbison - 29
135. Takemitsu - 29
137. Bernstein - 28
137. Dussek - 28
137. Hasse - 28
140. Leifs - 27
140. Paganini - 27
142. Alkan - 25
142. Schütz - 25
144. Clementi - 24
145. Granados - 23
145. MacDowell - 23
147. Locatelli - 22
148. Bach, W.F. - 21
149. Charpentier - 20
150. Carter - 19
150. Xenakis - 19
152. Berio - 18
152. Cage - 18
152. Golijov - 18
152. Tveitt - 18
156. Berwald - 17
156. Cherubini - 17
156. Mompou - 17
156. Tippet - 17
160. Gabrieli - 16
160. Skalkottas - 16
162. Parry - 15
163. Hartmann - 14
163. Wohlfahrt - 14
165. Graupner - 13
165. Henze - 13
167. Beach - 10
167. Bridge - 10
167. Khachaturian - 10
167. Rudland - 10
167. Zemlinsky - 10
172. Krommer - 9
173. Marcello - 8
173. Nyman - 8
173. Rubinstein - 8
173. Schreker - 8
173. Zimmerman - 8
178. Farrenc - 7
178. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
178. Wyschnegradsky - 7
181. Abel - 6
181. Czerny - 6
181. Eberl - 6
181. Heinichen - 6
181. Meyerbeer - 6
181. Sorabji - 6
181. Stamitz - 6
188. Gubaidulina - 5
188. Veress - 5
190. Allegri - 4
190. Brouwer - 4
190. Ferneyhough - 4
190. Krenek - 4
194. Quantz - 3
194. Simpson - 3
194. Torelli - 3
197. Danzi - 2
197. Hovhaness - 2
199. Holmboe - 1
199. Monti - 1
199. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
202. Strauss I, Johann - -2
203. Schobert - -16


----------



## science

pjang23, after Glass I believe you'll be able to lower the threshold by at least 50 points. That should save you some work.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Strauss II, Johann +10
2. Gesualdo +9
3. Donizetti +8
4. Bellini +7
5. Biber +6
6. Alessandro Scarlatti +5
7. Hildegard of Bingen +4
8. Massenet +3
9. Delius +2
10. Buxtehude +1

Varese -3


----------



## Rapide

10 Clementi
9 Alwyn
8 Wolf
7 Smetana
6 Haydn. M
5 Penderecki
4 Janacek
3 Boulez
2 Pärt
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## science

SLGO, if you'll hold off on Gesualdo until pjang23 is able to lower the threshold, I'll give him all my +10 votes after that.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	+10 ("Sea Drift", First Night of 2013 Proms tonight)	
Victoria	+9	
Weber	+8	
Holst	+7	
Buxtehude	+6	
Walton	+5	
Bax	+4	
Tippet	+3	
Ives	+2	
Smetana	+1	
Varèse	-3


----------



## crmoorhead

Very Senior Member said:


> Delius	+10 ("Sea Drift", First Night of 2013 Proms tonight)


That would be 2012. 

10 pts Weber
9 Adams
8 Telemann
7 Donizetti
6 Bellini
5 Couperin
4 Glass
3 Arnold
2 Gershwin
1 Corelli


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Telemann · 8
Glass · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Holst · 3
Smetana · 2
Corelli · 1


Werner Maria Teebeutel · -3


----------



## Vesteralen

Arnold - 10 pts
Alfven - 9
Walton - 8
Machaut - 7
Gesualdo - 6
Novak - 5
Borodin - 4
Spohr - 3
Massenet - 2
Franck - 1

I'm going to break my long-standing rule and give a *MINUS 3 to Telemann*.

I can't help it, I've tried listening to Telemann many times, and he just seems like the most boring composer ever to me.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Vesteralen said:


> I can't help it, I've tried listening to Telemann many times, and he just seems like the most boring composer ever to me.


Try some very good period instrument ensembles/performers. These have been excellent. The violin concertos from CPO performed by Elizabeth Wallfisch. (Old fashioned modern instrument takes on Telemann are total crap, even I fall asleep from those).


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Telemann
9.	Weber
8.	Borodin
7.	Hindemith
6.	Strauss II, Johann
5.	Adams
4.	Haydn, Michael
3.	Gesualdo
2.	Tallis
1.	Scarlatti, Alessandro


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Telemann was also one of the great Baroque vocal composers. I am especially find of the following:





































HC... I must check out those Telemann Violin Concertos.


----------



## pollux

Dowland - 10
Schütz - 9
Frescobaldi - 8 (first votes for him? )
Lassus - 7 (first votes for him?  )
W. Byrd - 6
F. Couperin - 5
Victoria - 4
Biber - 3
Ives - 2
Telemann - 1


Erik Satie - -3 (What's so great about this composer?)


----------



## Vesteralen

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Try some very good period instrument ensembles/performers. These have been excellent. The violin concertos from CPO performed by Elizabeth Wallfisch. (Old fashioned modern instrument takes on Telemann are total crap, even I fall asleep from those).


I'm working my way through all the CPO discs my library system has (and they have a lot). I'm bound to come to at least one of these soon. Thanks for the suggestion.

Fortunately for the Telemann-lovers out these, my little minus three could do nothing to prevent his enshrinement.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Adams - 9
Penderecki - 8
Gershwin - 7
Glass - 6
Satie - 5
Pärt - 4
Crumb - 3
Cage - 2
Takemitsu - 1


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Martinu
9 Lutoslawski
8 Xenakis
7 Boulez
6 Schnittke
5 Varese

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## pjang23

10 Byrd
9 Bellini
8 Machaut
7 Weber
6 Villa-Lobos
5 Part
4 Tallis
3 Biber
2 Donizetti
1 Hummel
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Villa-Lobos and Weber are in

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann - 399
63. Satie - 356
64. Adams - 343
65. Strauss II, Johann - 326
66. Glass - 317
67. Gesualdo - 217
68. Donizetti - 208
69. Respighi - 207
70. Pärt - 197
71. Machaut - 193
72. Ives - 189
73. Arnold - 187
74. Alfven - 174
75. Haydn, Michael - 173
76. Reich - 172
77. Varèse - 166
78. Borodin - 165
79. Bellini - 157
80. Hummel - 156
81. Schnittke - 154
82. Rott - 152
83. Biber - 144
84. Holst - 142
85. Delius - 138
86. Victoria - 137
87. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 135
88. Tallis - 133
89. Penderecki - 128
90. Gershwin - 127
91. Wolf - 124
92. Glazunov - 117
92. Smetana - 117
94. Hildegard - 115
95. Boccherini - 112
96. Bax - 104
97. Walton - 97
98. Novak - 95
99. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
100. Boulez - 87
100. Buxtehude - 87
102. Spohr - 86
103. Massenet - 84
104. Vogelweide - 81
105. Albeniz - 77
106. Franck - 76
107. Hindemith - 75
108. Corelli - 74
109. Martinu - 69
110. Medtner - 62
111. Byrd - 60
112. Szymanowski - 59
113. Zelenka - 57
114. Stockhausen - 56
115. Couperin - 55
116. Dowland - 47
117. Falla - 42
117. Poulenc - 42
119. Lalo - 41
120. Alwyn - 40
120. Enescu - 40
120. Glinka - 40
123. Crumb - 39
123. Lutoslawski - 39
125. Rodrigo - 38
126. Piazzolla - 35
127. Albinoni - 34
127. Clementi - 34
127. Perotin - 34
127. Schumann, Clara - 34
127. Schütz - 34
132. Brian - 31
132. Gombert - 31
132. Graun - 31
135. Gorecki - 30
135. Offenbach - 30
135. Takemitsu - 30
138. Harbison - 29
139. Bernstein - 28
139. Dussek - 28
139. Hasse - 28
142. Leifs - 27
142. Paganini - 27
142. Xenakis - 27
145. Alkan - 25
146. Granados - 23
146. MacDowell - 23
148. Locatelli - 22
149. Bach, W.F. - 21
150. Cage - 20
150. Charpentier - 20
150. Tippet - 20
153. Carter - 19
154. Berio - 18
154. Golijov - 18
154. Tveitt - 18
157. Berwald - 17
157. Cherubini - 17
157. Mompou - 17
160. Gabrieli - 16
160. Skalkottas - 16
162. Parry - 15
163. Hartmann - 14
163. Wohlfahrt - 14
165. Graupner - 13
165. Henze - 13
167. Beach - 10
167. Bridge - 10
167. Khachaturian - 10
167. Rudland - 10
167. Zemlinsky - 10
172. Krommer - 9
173. Frescobaldi - 8
173. Marcello - 8
173. Nyman - 8
173. Rubinstein - 8
173. Schreker - 8
173. Zimmerman - 8
179. Farrenc - 7
179. Lassus - 7
179. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
179. Wyschnegradsky - 7
183. Abel - 6
183. Czerny - 6
183. Eberl - 6
183. Heinichen - 6
183. Meyerbeer - 6
183. Sorabji - 6
183. Stamitz - 6
190. Gubaidulina - 5
190. Veress - 5
192. Allegri - 4
192. Brouwer - 4
192. Ferneyhough - 4
192. Krenek - 4
196. Quantz - 3
196. Simpson - 3
196. Torelli - 3
199. Danzi - 2
199. Hovhaness - 2
201. Holmboe - 1
201. Monti - 1
201. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
204. Strauss I, Johann - -2
205. Schobert - -16


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Glass
9 - Satie
8 - Hummel
7 - Johann Strauss II
6 - Reich
5 - Paganini
4 - Poulenc
3 - Holst
2 - Johann Strauss I
1 - Telemann


----------



## science

10 Glass
9 Strauss II, Johann 
8 Adams
7 Satie
6 Offenbach
5 Schutz
4 Bernstein
3 Alkan 
2 Paganini 
1 Khachaturian
-3 Gesaldo


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Alessandro Scarlatti = +9
Bellini = +8
Biber = +7
Gabrieli = +6
Hasse = +5
Graun = +4
Corelli = +3
Donizetti = +2
Gesualdo = +1

Varèse = -3


----------



## Guest

Hildegard: 10
Alkan: 9
V Lobos: 8
J. Strauss II: 7
M. Haydn: 6
Satie: 5
Sorabji: 4
Gesualdo: 3
C. Schumann: 2
Bortkiewicz: 1

Ullmann: - 3 (Yeah, _he_ should be with Schobert. He cannot die in a sea of meaningless irrelevance)


----------



## science

MonsieurTrenteCentimetres said:


> Alkan: - 3 _*(He should be with Schobert. He cannot die in a sea of meaningless irrelevance).*_


Now I'm busy with a project to help pjang23 lower the threshold, so my big votes are taken for that. But when I finish I will help you elevate Alkan, if you wish.


----------



## Guest

Thanks, but I really think that voting him down would be much better than elevating him (because he would just end up somewhere in the hundreds). It's the same strategy you used with Schobert.


----------



## science

MonsieurTrenteCentimetres said:


> Thanks, but I really think that voting him down would be much better than elevating him (because he would just end up somewhere in the hundreds). It's the same strategy you used with Schobert.


Except that Alkan is about a hundred times as well-known, and is going to get votes from people eventually, so the strategy is eventually going to fail and backfire, giving him a lower place on the list than he could have.

Schobert would never get any votes, so it works better for him.


----------



## Trout

10 Tallis
9 Alkan
8 Pettersson (I listened to some of his symphonies recently; they are quite good.)
7 Borodin
6 Byrd
5 Biber
4 Varese
3 Ives
2 Corelli
1 Schutz
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## Guest

science said:


> Except that Alkan is about a hundred times as well-known, and is going to get votes from people eventually, so the strategy is eventually going to fail and backfire, giving him a lower place on the list than he could have.
> 
> Schobert would never get any votes, so it works better for him.


Hmm, that's quite problematic. Well, I'll see how it will go for Alkan.

Edit: never mind.


----------



## tdc

10. Biber
9. Buxtehude
8. Albeniz
7. Schnittke
6. Ives
5. Hildegard
4. Brian
3. Szymanowski
2. Takemitsu
1. Falla


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Johann Strauss II +10
2. Carlo Gesualdo +9
3. G. Donizetti +8
4. Vincenzo Bellini +7
5. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber +6
6. Alessandro Scarlatti +5
7. Jacques Offenbach +4
8. Hildegard of Bingen +3
9. Jules Massenet +2
10. D. Buxtehude +1

Varese -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Telemann is in

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie - 376
64. Strauss II, Johann - 357
65. Adams - 351
66. Glass - 337
67. Gesualdo - 231
68. Donizetti - 218
69. Respighi - 207
70. Ives - 198
71. Pärt - 197
72. Machaut - 193
73. Arnold - 187
74. Haydn, Michael - 186
75. Alfven - 174
76. Bellini - 172
76. Biber - 172
76. Borodin - 172
76. Reich - 172
80. Varèse - 164
81. Hummel - 162
82. Schnittke - 161
83. Rott - 152
84. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 149
85. Holst - 143
85. Tallis - 143
87. Delius - 138
88. Victoria - 137
89. Hildegard - 133
90. Penderecki - 128
91. Gershwin - 127
92. Wolf - 124
93. Glazunov - 117
93. Smetana - 117
95. Boccherini - 112
96. Bax - 104
97. Buxtehude - 97
97. Walton - 97
99. Novak - 95
100. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
101. Boulez - 87
102. Massenet - 86
102. Spohr - 86
104. Albeniz - 85
105. Corelli - 81
105. Vogelweide - 81
107. Franck - 76
108. Hindemith - 75
109. Martinu - 69
110. Byrd - 66
111. Medtner - 62
111. Szymanowski - 62
113. Zelenka - 57
114. Stockhausen - 56
115. Couperin - 55
116. Dowland - 47
117. Poulenc - 44
118. Falla - 43
119. Lalo - 41
120. Alwyn - 40
120. Enescu - 40
120. Glinka - 40
120. Offenbach - 40
120. Schütz - 40
125. Crumb - 39
125. Lutoslawski - 39
127. Rodrigo - 38
128. Schumann, Clara - 37
129. Brian - 35
129. Graun - 35
129. Piazzolla - 35
132. Albinoni - 34
132. Alkan - 34
132. Clementi - 34
132. Paganini - 34
132. Perotin - 34
137. Hasse - 33
138. Bernstein - 32
138. Takemitsu - 32
140. Gombert - 31
141. Gorecki - 30
142. Harbison - 29
143. Dussek - 28
144. Leifs - 27
144. Xenakis - 27
146. Granados - 23
146. MacDowell - 23
148. Gabrieli - 22
148. Locatelli - 22
150. Bach, W.F. - 21
151. Cage - 20
151. Charpentier - 20
151. Tippet - 20
154. Carter - 19
155. Berio - 18
155. Golijov - 18
155. Tveitt - 18
158. Berwald - 17
158. Cherubini - 17
158. Mompou - 17
161. Skalkottas - 16
162. Parry - 15
163. Hartmann - 14
163. Wohlfahrt - 14
165. Graupner - 13
165. Henze - 13
167. Khachaturian - 11
168. Beach - 10
168. Bridge - 10
168. Rudland - 10
168. Sorabji - 10
168. Zemlinsky - 10
173. Krommer - 9
174. Frescobaldi - 8
174. Marcello - 8
174. Nyman - 8
174. Pettersson - 8
174. Rubinstein - 8
174. Schreker - 8
174. Zimmerman - 8
181. Farrenc - 7
181. Lassus - 7
181. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
181. Wyschnegradsky - 7
185. Abel - 6
185. Czerny - 6
185. Eberl - 6
185. Heinichen - 6
185. Meyerbeer - 6
185. Stamitz - 6
191. Gubaidulina - 5
191. Veress - 5
193. Allegri - 4
193. Brouwer - 4
193. Ferneyhough - 4
193. Krenek - 4
197. Quantz - 3
197. Simpson - 3
197. Torelli - 3
200. Danzi - 2
200. Hovhaness - 2
202. Holmboe - 1
202. Monti - 1
202. Strauss I, Johann - 1
202. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
202. Ullmann - 1
207. Schobert - -16


----------



## pollux

10	Dowland
9	Schütz
8	F. Couperin
7	M. A. Charpentier
6	Byrd
5	Victoria
4	Biber
3	Buxtehude
2	Ives
1	Lassus

-3	Satie


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Satie · 10
Respighi · 9
Glass · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Smetana · 4
Holst · 3
Corelli · 2
C. H. Graun · 1


Marc Antoine d'Extraordinaire · -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10. J Strauss II
9. Adams
8. Donizetti
7. Bellini
6. Glass
5. Couperin
4. Gershwin
3. Cage
2. Arnold
1. Holst


----------



## Guest

@pjang23 Bortkiewicz is not in your list. Also, Ullmann should be -3.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	10
Victoria	9
Walton	8
Holst	7
Buxtehude	6
Ives	5
Bax	4
Tippet	3
Spohr	2
Borodin	1
Adams -3


----------



## science

MonsieurTrenteCentimetres said:


> Hmm, that's quite problematic. Well, I'll see how it will go for Alkan.
> 
> Edit: never mind.


Let's just vote for him. He'll get up there.


----------



## mmsbls

10	Weber
9	Borodin
8	Hindemith
7	Strauss II, Johann
6	Adams
5	Haydn, Michael
4	Gesualdo
3	Tallis
2	Scarlatti, Alessandro
1	Corelli


----------



## Jared

are my eyes deceiving me, or has Johannes Ockeghem (1410-1497) been completely omitted from that list?

In terms of importance, he would fit alongside Josquin (46), the man he greatly influenced (well, Belgium/ Flanders is a small place, after all!)

if so, Ockeghem 10!!

so then people, rush otu and buy yourselves one of these by way of penance!!


----------



## crmoorhead

mmsbls said:


> 10	Weber


Weber has _just_ been voted in.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Jared said:


> are my eyes deceiving me, or has Johannes Ockeghem (1410-1497) been completely omitted from that list?
> 
> In terms of importance, he would fit alongside Josquin (46), the man he greatly influenced (well, Belgium/ Flanders is a small place, after all!)
> 
> if so, Ockeghem 10!!
> 
> so then people, rush otu and buy yourselves one of these by way of penance!!


Well spotted. A deserved sub-100 contender. There are several I'd love to get rid off to make way for Ockeghem.

You learned a lot in the "other place", where I see you are still active. I used to be quite active there too until around mid-2007, under a different name of course. I got to almost 1000 posts.

P.S. totting up my posts in all the various classical music Forums I've ever participated in and it comes to over 25,000. I'm very quiet here by comparison. Just soaking it all up and taking things a bit easy.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Glass
9 - Satie
8 - Part
7 - Ives
6 - Hummel
5 - Reich
4 - Holst
3 - Poulenc
2 - W.F. Bach
1 - Cherubini


----------



## pjang23

MonsieurTrenteCentimetres said:


> @pjang23 Bortkiewicz is not in your list. Also, Ullmann should be -3.


No prob. I didn't see your edit.

10 Ockeghem
9 Victoria
8 Byrd
7 Machaut
6 Strauss II
5 Hummel
4 Medtner
3 Biber
2 Bellini
1 Cherubini
-3 Arnold

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie - 392
64. Strauss II, Johann - 379
65. Adams - 363
66. Glass - 361
67. Gesualdo - 231
68. Donizetti - 226
69. Respighi - 216
70. Ives - 212
71. Pärt - 205
72. Machaut - 200
73. Haydn, Michael - 191
74. Arnold - 186
75. Borodin - 182
76. Bellini - 181
77. Biber - 179
78. Reich - 177
79. Alfven - 174
80. Hummel - 173
81. Varèse - 164
82. Schnittke - 161
83. Victoria - 160
84. Rott - 159
85. Holst - 158
86. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 151
87. Delius - 148
88. Tallis - 146
89. Hildegard - 133
90. Gershwin - 131
91. Wolf - 130
92. Penderecki - 128
93. Smetana - 121
94. Glazunov - 117
95. Boccherini - 112
96. Bax - 108
97. Buxtehude - 106
98. Walton - 105
99. Novak - 95
100. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
101. Spohr - 88
102. Boulez - 87
103. Massenet - 86
103. Vogelweide - 86
105. Albeniz - 85
106. Hindemith - 83
107. Corelli - 82
108. Byrd - 80
109. Franck - 76
110. Martinu - 69
111. Couperin - 68
112. Medtner - 66
113. Szymanowski - 62
114. Dowland - 57
114. Zelenka - 57
116. Stockhausen - 56
117. Schütz - 49
118. Poulenc - 47
119. Alkan - 46
120. Falla - 43
121. Lalo - 41
122. Alwyn - 40
122. Enescu - 40
122. Glinka - 40
122. Offenbach - 40
126. Crumb - 39
126. Lutoslawski - 39
128. Rodrigo - 38
129. Graun - 36
129. Schumann, Clara - 36
131. Brian - 35
131. Piazzolla - 35
133. Albinoni - 34
133. Clementi - 34
133. Paganini - 34
133. Perotin - 34
137. Hasse - 33
138. Bernstein - 32
138. Takemitsu - 32
140. Gombert - 31
141. Gorecki - 30
142. Harbison - 29
143. Dussek - 28
144. Charpentier - 27
144. Leifs - 27
144. Xenakis - 27
147. Bach, W.F. - 23
147. Cage - 23
147. Granados - 23
147. MacDowell - 23
147. Tippet - 23
152. Gabrieli - 22
152. Locatelli - 22
154. Ockeghem - 20
155. Carter - 19
155. Cherubini - 19
157. Berio - 18
157. Golijov - 18
157. Tveitt - 18
160. Berwald - 17
160. Mompou - 17
162. Skalkottas - 16
163. Parry - 15
164. Hartmann - 14
164. Wohlfahrt - 14
166. Graupner - 13
166. Henze - 13
168. Khachaturian - 11
169. Beach - 10
169. Bridge - 10
169. Rudland - 10
169. Sorabji - 10
169. Zemlinsky - 10
174. Krommer - 9
175. Frescobaldi - 8
175. Lassus - 8
175. Marcello - 8
175. Nyman - 8
175. Pettersson - 8
175. Rubinstein - 8
175. Schreker - 8
175. Zimmerman - 8
183. Farrenc - 7
183. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
183. Wyschnegradsky - 7
186. Abel - 6
186. Czerny - 6
186. Eberl - 6
186. Heinichen - 6
186. Meyerbeer - 6
186. Stamitz - 6
192. Gubaidulina - 5
192. Veress - 5
194. Allegri - 4
194. Brouwer - 4
194. Ferneyhough - 4
194. Krenek - 4
198. Quantz - 3
198. Simpson - 3
198. Torelli - 3
201. Danzi - 2
201. Hovhaness - 2
203. Bortkiewicz - 1
203. Holmboe - 1
203. Monti - 1
203. Strauss I, Johann - 1
203. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
208. Ullmann - -3
209. Schobert - -16


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Penderecki
8 Lutoslawski
7 Xenakis
6 Crumb

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Adams - 9
Penderecki - 8
Gershwin - 7
Glass - 6
Satie - 5
Pärt - 4
Crumb - 3
Brian - 2
Takemitsu - 1


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Donizetti = +9
Bellini = +8
Hummel = +7
WF Bach = +6
Corelli = +5
Byrd = +4
Alessandro Scarlatti = +3
Biber = +2
Spohr = +1

Stockhausen = -3


----------



## tdc

10. Biber
9. Buxtehude
8. Ives
7. Schnittke
6. Dowland
5. Brian
4. Albeniz
3. Rodrigo
2. Hildegard
1. Takemitsu


----------



## tdc

> 81. Varèse - 164


I'd enjoy this composer more if he would've used less siren.


----------



## Trout

10 Tallis
9 Honegger (who should also be on the list.)
8 Lutoslawski
7 Schutz
6 Gabrieli
5 Ockeghem
4 Byrd
3 Corelli
2 Varese
1 Victoria
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## Rapide

10 Victoria
9 Alwyn
8 Wolf
7 Haydn. M
6 Smetana
5 Penderecki
4 Janacek
3 Boulez
2 Pärt
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## Rapide

tdc said:


> I'd enjoy this composer more if he would've used less siren.


Or he wrote a bit more music than just enough to fill 2 CDs. Not very great.


----------



## science

10 Glass
9 Adams
8 Strauss J II
7 Ockeghem 
6 Piazzolla
5 Alkan
4 Berio
3 Satie
2 Khachaturian
1 Golijov
-3 Gesualdo


----------



## science

Trout said:


> 9 Honegger (who should also be on the list.)


Yes, that has been an oversight.

Great vote.


----------



## Guest

Hildegard: 10
Alkan: 9
V Lobos: 8
J. Strauss II: 7
M. Haydn: 6
Satie: 5
Sorabji: 4
Gesualdo: 3
C. Schumann: 2
Stockhausen: 1

Bortkiewicz: - 3


----------



## Trout

MonsieurTrenteCentimetres said:


> H
> V Lobos: 8


He just made the list recently.


----------



## pjang23

Looks like we could drop the threshold to 300 after the next three get in.

Current Results: Satie is in

Composers need to reach *400* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann - 394
65. Adams - 381
66. Glass - 377
67. Donizetti - 235
68. Gesualdo - 231
69. Ives - 220
70. Respighi - 216
71. Pärt - 211
72. Haydn, Michael - 208
73. Machaut - 200
74. Biber - 191
75. Bellini - 189
76. Reich - 187
77. Arnold - 186
78. Borodin - 182
79. Hummel - 180
80. Alfven - 175
81. Victoria - 171
82. Schnittke - 168
83. Varèse - 163
84. Rott - 159
85. Holst - 158
86. Tallis - 156
87. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 154
88. Penderecki - 150
89. Delius - 148
90. Hildegard - 145
91. Gershwin - 138
91. Wolf - 138
93. Smetana - 127
94. Glazunov - 117
95. Buxtehude - 115
96. Boccherini - 112
97. Bax - 108
98. Walton - 105
99. Novak - 95
100. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 94
101. Boulez - 90
101. Corelli - 90
103. Albeniz - 89
103. Spohr - 89
105. Byrd - 88
106. Massenet - 86
106. Vogelweide - 86
108. Hindemith - 83
109. Franck - 76
110. Martinu - 69
111. Couperin - 68
112. Medtner - 66
113. Stockhausen - 64
114. Dowland - 63
115. Szymanowski - 62
116. Alkan - 60
117. Zelenka - 57
118. Schütz - 56
119. Lutoslawski - 55
120. Alwyn - 49
121. Crumb - 48
122. Offenbach - 47
122. Poulenc - 47
124. Falla - 43
125. Brian - 42
126. Lalo - 41
126. Piazzolla - 41
126. Rodrigo - 41
129. Enescu - 40
129. Glinka - 40
131. Schumann, Clara - 38
132. Graun - 36
133. Albinoni - 34
133. Clementi - 34
133. Paganini - 34
133. Perotin - 34
133. Takemitsu - 34
133. Xenakis - 34
139. Hasse - 33
140. Bernstein - 32
141. Gombert - 31
142. Gorecki - 30
143. Bach, W.F. - 29
143. Harbison - 29
145. Dussek - 28
145. Gabrieli - 28
147. Charpentier - 27
147. Leifs - 27
149. Ockeghem - 25
150. Cage - 23
150. Granados - 23
150. MacDowell - 23
150. Tippet - 23
154. Berio - 22
154. Locatelli - 22
156. Carter - 19
156. Cherubini - 19
156. Golijov - 19
159. Tveitt - 18
160. Berwald - 17
160. Mompou - 17
162. Skalkottas - 16
163. Parry - 15
164. Hartmann - 14
164. Sorabji - 14
164. Wohlfahrt - 14
167. Graupner - 13
167. Henze - 13
167. Khachaturian - 13
170. Beach - 10
170. Bridge - 10
170. Rudland - 10
170. Zemlinsky - 10
174. Honegger - 9
174. Krommer - 9
176. Frescobaldi - 8
176. Lassus - 8
176. Marcello - 8
176. Nyman - 8
176. Pettersson - 8
176. Rubinstein - 8
176. Schreker - 8
176. Zimmerman - 8
184. Farrenc - 7
184. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
184. Wyschnegradsky - 7
187. Abel - 6
187. Czerny - 6
187. Eberl - 6
187. Heinichen - 6
187. Meyerbeer - 6
187. Stamitz - 6
193. Gubaidulina - 5
193. Veress - 5
195. Allegri - 4
195. Brouwer - 4
195. Ferneyhough - 4
195. Krenek - 4
199. Quantz - 3
199. Simpson - 3
199. Torelli - 3
202. Danzi - 2
202. Hovhaness - 2
204. Holmboe - 1
204. Monti - 1
204. Strauss I, Johann - 1
204. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
208. Bortkiewicz - -2
209. Ullmann - -3
210. Schobert - -16


----------



## pollux

10 Dowland
9 Schütz
8 F. Couperin
7 W. Byrd
6 M.A. Charpentier
5 Lassus - if the other three polyphony masters of the 16th C. i.e. Palestrina, Byrd, Victoria are being voted, why forget this one? 
4 Frescobaldi
3 Ockeghem
2 B.A. Zimmermann
1 Xenakis

-3 Glass


----------



## Jared

Very Senior Member said:


> Well spotted. A deserved sub-100 contender. There are several I'd love to get rid off to make way for Ockeghem.
> 
> You learned a lot in the "other place", where I see you are still active. I used to be quite active there too until around mid-2007, under a different name of course. I got to almost 1000 posts.
> 
> P.S. totting up my posts in all the various classical music Forums I've ever participated in and it comes to over 25,000. I'm very quiet here by comparison. Just soaking it all up and taking things a bit easy.


Thank you, VSM... interesting, in that I joined 'the other place' in 2009, and was fairly active until about last autumn when a group of about 5 of us elected to drop out. I have been listening voraciously since then with, over the past 12 months quite a lot of Renaissance music as you will have seen! (Corlyss would be proud, bless her!)


----------



## Very Senior Member

Jared said:


> Thank you, VSM... interesting, in that I joined 'the other place' in 2009, and was fairly active until about last autumn when a group of about 5 of us elected to drop out. I have been listening voraciously since then with, over the past 12 months quite a lot of Renaissance music as you will have seen! (Corlyss would be proud, bless her!)


I remember Corlyss chiefly for her disliking of "lefties", most music after the baroque era and especially heavy romantic orchestral music, and one very outspoken Wagnerian member who got on her (and several other members') nerves badly.


----------



## Jared

Very Senior Member said:


> I remember Corlyss chiefly for her disliking of "lefties", most music after the baroque era and especially heavy romantic orchestral music, and one very outspoken Wagnerian member who got on her (and several other members') nerves badly.


Oh indeed... the 'Pub' was a place of personal bemusement and distate to anyone who wasn't a Tea Party Member... I really don't think it does the site any favours whatsoever.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Glass · 9
Smetana · 8
Holst · 7
Rott · 6
Wolf · 5
von der Vogelweide · 4
Corelli · 3
Graun, C.H. · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Ursus Wei · -3


----------



## Orpheus

pollux said:


> 5 Lassus - if the other three polyphony masters of the 16th C. i.e. Palestrina, Byrd, Victoria are being voted, why forget this one?


The voters just happen not to be so familiar with him and so the name never came up? (I have to admit to a total ignorance of this composer's work myself). I'm similarly baffled by the fact that Desprez (under his first name, I assume) has already made it on the permanent list, but Dufay has not even been mentioned. I can't see how it's possible to give one of these recognition and not the other, personally. Oh well, time to remedy that along with a couple of other omissions which are perhaps less surprising:

Barrios 10
Dufay 9
Brian 8
Dowland 7
Byrd 6
Gesualdo 5
Sorabji 4
Buxtehude 3
Vierne 2
Szymanowski 1

Glass -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Donizetti
9 Adams
8 Bellini
7 Glass
6 J Strauss II
5 Gershwin
4 Arnold
3 Corelli
2 Biber
1 Glazunov


----------



## Trout

10 Adams
9 Tallis
8 Honegger
7 Byrd
6 Lassus
5 Ockeghem
4 Lutoslawski
3 Couperin
2 Corelli
1 Machaut
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria	+10 
Delius +9 (I'm addicted to the balmy, relaxed imagery this guy can conjure up like no other)
Buxtehude	+8
Spohr	+7
Ockeghem	+6
Bax	+5
Holst	+4
Walton	+3 (wonderful string concertos)
Ives	+2
Tippet	+1
Ippolitov-Ivanov	-3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Adams
7.	Haydn, Michael
6.	Gesualdo
5.	Tallis
4.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
3.	Corelli
2.	Franck
1.	Ives


----------



## StevenOBrien

Looks like Adams and Johann Strauss II are in. Are we lowering the threshold once Glass is in?

10 - Glass
9 - Ives
8 - Hummel
7 - Reich
6 - Holst
5 - Part
4 - Delius
3 - Gershwin
2 - Poulenc
1 - Alkan


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Delius +9 (I'm addicted to the balmy, relaxed imagery this guy can conjure up like no other)

Yes indeed!

Another name I see missing from our list is Charles Koechlin. A marvelous composer in the French Impressionist tradition. He studied along side of Enescu, Florent Schmitt, Reynaldo Hahn (another sadly missing name), Jean Roger-Ducasse, and Ravel.


----------



## science

I think Glass is ahead by c. 90 points or so -

As soon as pjang23 wishes, he can lower the threshold. If Glass hasn't reached 400 it will be ok, as he will be the only composer over the new threshold, and can be enshrined immediately on it. The longer we wait, the more Gesualdo and Donizetti and so on will get voted up, making it harder to lower the threshold.


----------



## pjang23

Looks like we can lower the threshold now. Don't want you guys to be voting forever. 

10 Leonin
9 Perotin
8 Lassus
7 Ockeghem
6 Dufay
5 Part
4 Hummel
3 Glass
2 Tallis
1 Medtner
-3 Arnold

Current Results: J Strauss II, Adams & Glass are in

*UPDATE:* Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Donizetti - 245
68. Gesualdo - 242
69. Ives - 232
70. Respighi - 226
71. Pärt - 221
72. Haydn, Michael - 212
73. Machaut - 201
74. Bellini - 197
75. Reich - 194
76. Biber - 193
77. Borodin - 192
77. Hummel - 192
79. Arnold - 187
80. Victoria - 181
81. Alfven - 175
81. Holst - 175
83. Tallis - 172
84. Schnittke - 168
85. Rott - 165
86. Varèse - 163
87. Delius - 161
88. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 158
89. Penderecki - 150
90. Gershwin - 146
91. Hildegard - 145
92. Wolf - 143
93. Smetana - 135
94. Buxtehude - 126
95. Glazunov - 118
96. Bax - 113
97. Boccherini - 112
98. Byrd - 108
98. Walton - 108
100. Corelli - 101
101. Spohr - 96
102. Novak - 95
103. Hindemith - 92
104. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
105. Boulez - 90
105. Vogelweide - 90
107. Albeniz - 89
108. Massenet - 86
109. Dowland - 80
110. Couperin - 79
111. Franck - 78
112. Martinu - 69
113. Medtner - 67
114. Schütz - 65
115. Stockhausen - 64
116. Szymanowski - 63
117. Alkan - 61
118. Lutoslawski - 59
119. Zelenka - 57
120. Brian - 50
121. Alwyn - 49
121. Poulenc - 49
123. Crumb - 48
124. Offenbach - 47
125. Ockeghem - 46
126. Falla - 43
126. Perotin - 43
128. Lalo - 41
128. Piazzolla - 41
128. Rodrigo - 41
131. Enescu - 40
131. Glinka - 40
133. Graun - 38
133. Schumann, Clara - 38
135. Takemitsu - 35
135. Xenakis - 35
137. Albinoni - 34
137. Clementi - 34
137. Paganini - 34
140. Charpentier - 33
140. Hasse - 33
142. Bernstein - 32
143. Gombert - 31
144. Gorecki - 30
145. Bach, W.F. - 29
145. Harbison - 29
147. Dussek - 28
147. Gabrieli - 28
149. Lassus - 27
149. Leifs - 27
151. Tippet - 24
152. Cage - 23
152. Granados - 23
152. MacDowell - 23
155. Berio - 22
155. Locatelli - 22
157. Carter - 19
157. Cherubini - 19
157. Golijov - 19
160. Sorabji - 18
160. Tveitt - 18
162. Berwald - 17
162. Honegger - 17
162. Mompou - 17
165. Skalkottas - 16
166. Dufay - 15
166. Parry - 15
168. Hartmann - 14
168. Wohlfahrt - 14
170. Graupner - 13
170. Henze - 13
170. Khachaturian - 13
173. Frescobaldi - 12
174. Barrios - 10
174. Beach - 10
174. Bridge - 10
174. Leonin - 10
174. Rudland - 10
174. Zemlinsky - 10
174. Zimmerman - 10
181. Krommer - 9
182. Marcello - 8
182. Nyman - 8
182. Pettersson - 8
182. Rubinstein - 8
182. Schreker - 8
187. Farrenc - 7
187. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
187. Wyschnegradsky - 7
190. Abel - 6
190. Czerny - 6
190. Eberl - 6
190. Heinichen - 6
190. Meyerbeer - 6
190. Stamitz - 6
196. Gubaidulina - 5
196. Veress - 5
198. Allegri - 4
198. Brouwer - 4
198. Ferneyhough - 4
198. Krenek - 4
202. Quantz - 3
202. Simpson - 3
202. Torelli - 3
205. Danzi - 2
205. Hovhaness - 2
205. Vierne - 2
208. Holmboe - 1
208. Monti - 1
208. Strauss I, Johann - 1
208. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
212. Bortkiewicz - -2
213. Ullmann - -3
214. Schobert - -16


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Machaut
9 Gesualdo
8 Stockhausen
7 Reich
6 Gershwin

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Donizetti = +9
Biber = +8
Bellini = +7
Alessandro Scarlatti = +6
Hasse = +6
Graun = +5
Boccherini = +4
Corelli = +3
Spohr = +2
Zelenak = +1

Stockhausen = -3


----------



## Guest

Trout said:


> He just made the list recently.


Sorry for the mistake. It seems I can't edit it anymore.


----------



## science

10 Gesualdo
9 Dufay 
8 Honegger
7 Piazzolla
6 Takemitsu
5 Enescu 
4 Cherubini 
3 Ockeghem 
2 Perotin 
1 Offenbach
-3 Schobert


----------



## tdc

10. Biber
9. Buxtehude
8. Albeniz
7. Charpentier
6. Couperin
5. Schnittke
4. Ives
3. Takemitsu
2. Victoria
1. Hildegard


----------



## tdc

science said:


> 10 Gesualdo




Your voting tactics are confusing me! Didn't you just -3 Gesualdo yesterday?


----------



## Rapide

10 Victoria
9 Alwyn
8 Wolf
7 Haydn. M
6 Smetana
5 Penderecki
4 Janacek
3 Boulez
2 Pärt
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Donizetti +9
3. Bellini +8
4. Biber +7
5. Gesualdo +6
6. Hildegard of Bingen +5
7. Alessandro Scarlatti +4
8. Zelenka +3
9. Buxtehude +2
10. Massenet +1

Pärt -3


----------



## Guest

Hildegard: 10
Alkan: 9
Sorabji: 8
Cherubini: 7
M. Haydn: 6
Glazunov: 5
Gesualdo: 4
Buxtehude: 3
C. Schumann: 2
Stockhausen: 1

Ullmann: - 3


----------



## pjang23

tdc said:


> Your voting tactics are confusing me! Didn't you just -3 Gesualdo yesterday?


I believe science was trying to leave a larger gap before the change to 300.

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo - 271
68. Donizetti - 263
69. Ives - 236
70. Haydn, Michael - 232
71. Respighi - 226
72. Pärt - 220
73. Biber - 218
74. Bellini - 212
75. Machaut - 211
76. Reich - 201
77. Victoria - 193
78. Borodin - 192
78. Hummel - 192
80. Arnold - 187
81. Alfven - 176
82. Holst - 175
83. Schnittke - 173
84. Tallis - 172
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 168
86. Rott - 165
87. Delius - 161
87. Hildegard - 161
89. Varèse - 160
90. Penderecki - 155
91. Gershwin - 152
92. Wolf - 151
93. Smetana - 141
94. Buxtehude - 140
95. Glazunov - 123
96. Boccherini - 115
97. Bax - 113
98. Byrd - 108
98. Walton - 108
100. Corelli - 103
101. Albeniz - 97
101. Spohr - 97
103. Novak - 95
104. Boulez - 93
105. Hindemith - 92
106. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
107. Vogelweide - 90
108. Massenet - 87
109. Couperin - 85
110. Dowland - 80
111. Franck - 78
112. Alkan - 70
112. Stockhausen - 70
114. Martinu - 69
115. Medtner - 67
116. Schütz - 65
117. Szymanowski - 63
118. Zelenka - 60
119. Lutoslawski - 59
120. Alwyn - 58
120. Offenbach - 58
122. Brian - 50
123. Ockeghem - 49
123. Poulenc - 49
125. Crumb - 48
125. Piazzolla - 48
127. Enescu - 45
127. Perotin - 45
129. Takemitsu - 44
130. Falla - 43
131. Graun - 42
132. Lalo - 41
132. Rodrigo - 41
134. Charpentier - 40
134. Glinka - 40
134. Schumann, Clara - 40
137. Hasse - 38
138. Xenakis - 35
139. Albinoni - 34
139. Clementi - 34
139. Paganini - 34
142. Bernstein - 32
143. Gombert - 31
144. Cherubini - 30
144. Gorecki - 30
146. Bach, W.F. - 29
146. Harbison - 29
148. Dussek - 28
148. Gabrieli - 28
150. Lassus - 27
150. Leifs - 27
152. Sorabji - 26
153. Honegger - 25
154. Dufay - 24
154. Tippet - 24
156. Cage - 23
156. Granados - 23
156. MacDowell - 23
159. Berio - 22
159. Locatelli - 22
161. Carter - 19
161. Golijov - 19
163. Tveitt - 18
164. Berwald - 17
164. Mompou - 17
166. Skalkottas - 16
167. Parry - 15
168. Hartmann - 14
168. Wohlfahrt - 14
170. Graupner - 13
170. Henze - 13
170. Khachaturian - 13
173. Frescobaldi - 12
174. Barrios - 10
174. Beach - 10
174. Bridge - 10
174. Leonin - 10
174. Rudland - 10
174. Zemlinsky - 10
174. Zimmerman - 10
181. Krommer - 9
182. Marcello - 8
182. Nyman - 8
182. Pettersson - 8
182. Rubinstein - 8
182. Schreker - 8
187. Farrenc - 7
187. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
187. Wyschnegradsky - 7
190. Abel - 6
190. Czerny - 6
190. Eberl - 6
190. Heinichen - 6
190. Meyerbeer - 6
190. Stamitz - 6
196. Gubaidulina - 5
196. Veress - 5
198. Allegri - 4
198. Brouwer - 4
198. Ferneyhough - 4
198. Krenek - 4
202. Quantz - 3
202. Simpson - 3
202. Torelli - 3
205. Danzi - 2
205. Hovhaness - 2
205. Vierne - 2
208. Holmboe - 1
208. Monti - 1
208. Strauss I, Johann - 1
208. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
212. Bortkiewicz - -2
213. Ullmann - -6
214. Schobert - -19


----------



## Very Senior Member

Victoria	+	10
Delius +	9
Buxtehude	+	8
Albeniz	+	7
Bax	+	6
Walton	+	5
Ockeghem	+	4
Spohr	+	3
Ives	+	2
Tippet	+	1

Pärt	-	3


----------



## science

tdc said:


> Your voting tactics are confusing me! Didn't you just -3 Gesualdo yesterday?


I've voted for Gesualdo earlier in the project as well.

In the past few days I've been working to make it easier to lower the threshold. Now I will repay Gesualdo amply.


----------



## pollux

10	Dowland
9	Schütz
8	Couperin
7	Byrd
6	Charpentier
5	Lassus
4	Frescobaldi
3	Buxtehude
2	Victoria
1	Biber

-3	Respighi


----------



## Vesteralen

Arnold - 10 pts
Liefs - 9
Alwyn - 8
Novak - 7
Massenet - 6
Machaut - 5
Gesualdo -4
Harbison - 3
Landini - 2
Spohr - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Haydn, Michael
7.	Gesualdo
6.	Tallis
5.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
4.	Corelli
3.	Franck
2.	Ives
1.	Respighi


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Smetana · 9
Holst · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Samson F. Ockenbroek · -3


----------



## Orpheus

Gesualdo 10
Dufay 9
Byrd 8
Dowland 7
Barrios 6
Brian 5
Buxtehude 4
Szymanowski 3
Delius 2
Hildegard 1

Pärt -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Ives
8 Gesualdo
7 Penderecki
6 Reich
5 Machaut

-3 M. Haydn

Gesualdo is in


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Ives
9 - Reich
8 - Holst
7 - Hummel
6 - Corelli
5 - Part
4 - Alkan
3 - Delius
2 - Bellini
1 - Cherubini

-3 - M. Haydn


----------



## pjang23

10 Machaut
9 Donizetti
8 Dufay
7 Perotin
6 Glazunov
5 Byrd
4 Hummel
3 Bellini
2 Holst
1 Part
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Gesualdo is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti - 272
69. Ives - 259
70. Haydn, Michael - 234
70. Respighi - 234
72. Machaut - 231
73. Pärt - 220
74. Biber - 219
75. Bellini - 217
76. Reich - 216
77. Victoria - 205
78. Hummel - 203
79. Borodin - 202
80. Arnold - 194
81. Holst - 193
82. Tallis - 178
83. Alfven - 176
84. Delius - 175
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 173
85. Schnittke - 173
87. Rott - 172
88. Hildegard - 162
88. Penderecki - 162
90. Varèse - 160
91. Wolf - 157
92. Buxtehude - 155
93. Gershwin - 152
94. Smetana - 150
95. Glazunov - 129
96. Byrd - 128
97. Bax - 119
98. Corelli - 117
99. Boccherini - 115
100. Walton - 113
101. Albeniz - 104
102. Novak - 102
103. Hindemith - 101
103. Spohr - 101
105. Dowland - 97
106. Vogelweide - 95
107. Boulez - 93
107. Couperin - 93
107. Massenet - 93
110. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
111. Franck - 81
112. Stockhausen - 80
113. Alkan - 74
113. Schütz - 74
115. Martinu - 69
116. Medtner - 67
117. Alwyn - 66
117. Szymanowski - 66
119. Zelenka - 60
120. Lutoslawski - 59
121. Offenbach - 58
122. Brian - 55
123. Ockeghem - 53
124. Perotin - 52
125. Poulenc - 49
126. Crumb - 48
126. Piazzolla - 48
128. Charpentier - 46
129. Enescu - 45
129. Graun - 45
129. Takemitsu - 45
132. Falla - 43
133. Dufay - 41
133. Lalo - 41
133. Rodrigo - 41
136. Glinka - 40
136. Schumann, Clara - 40
138. Hasse - 38
139. Albinoni - 36
139. Leifs - 36
141. Xenakis - 35
142. Clementi - 34
142. Paganini - 34
144. Bernstein - 32
144. Harbison - 32
144. Lassus - 32
147. Cherubini - 31
147. Gombert - 31
149. Gorecki - 30
150. Bach, W.F. - 29
151. Dussek - 28
151. Gabrieli - 28
153. Sorabji - 26
154. Honegger - 25
154. Tippet - 25
156. Cage - 23
156. Granados - 23
156. MacDowell - 23
159. Berio - 22
159. Locatelli - 22
161. Carter - 19
161. Golijov - 19
163. Tveitt - 18
164. Berwald - 17
164. Mompou - 17
166. Barrios - 16
166. Frescobaldi - 16
166. Skalkottas - 16
169. Parry - 15
170. Hartmann - 14
170. Wohlfahrt - 14
172. Graupner - 13
172. Henze - 13
172. Khachaturian - 13
175. Beach - 10
175. Bridge - 10
175. Leonin - 10
175. Rudland - 10
175. Zemlinsky - 10
175. Zimmerman - 10
181. Krommer - 9
182. Marcello - 8
182. Nyman - 8
182. Pettersson - 8
182. Rubinstein - 8
182. Schreker - 8
187. Farrenc - 7
187. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
187. Wyschnegradsky - 7
190. Abel - 6
190. Czerny - 6
190. Eberl - 6
190. Heinichen - 6
190. Meyerbeer - 6
190. Stamitz - 6
196. Gubaidulina - 5
196. Veress - 5
198. Allegri - 4
198. Brouwer - 4
198. Ferneyhough - 4
198. Krenek - 4
202. Quantz - 3
202. Simpson - 3
202. Torelli - 3
205. Danzi - 2
205. Hovhaness - 2
205. Landini - 2
205. Vierne - 2
209. Holmboe - 1
209. Monti - 1
209. Strauss I, Johann - 1
209. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
213. Bortkiewicz - -2
214. Ullmann - -6
215. Schobert - -19


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Penderecki - 9
Gershwin - 8
Pärt - 7
Crumb - 6
Tveitt - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Donizetti = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Bellini = +8
Alessandro Scarlatti = +7
Biber = +6
Spohr = +5
Graupner = +4
Marcello = + 3
Torelli = +2
Quantz = +1

Pärt = -3


----------



## science

10 Gombert
9 Lassus
8 Honegger
7 Cage
6 Gabrieli
5 Granados
4 Khachaturian 
3 Hovhaness
2 Henze
1 Vierne


----------



## tdc

10. Ives
9. Albeniz
8. Biber
7. Buxtehude
6. Takemitsu
5. Rodrigo
4. Falla
3. Charpentier
2. Schnittke
1. Couperin


----------



## Trout

10 Respighi
9 Tallis
8 Honegger
7 Byrd
6 Corelli
5 Ockeghem
4 Kodály
3 Bloch
2 Myaskovsky
1 Couperin
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Biber +9
3. Bellini +8
4. Donizetti +7
5. Zelenka +6
6. Delius +5
7. Alessandro Scarlatti +4
8. Schütz +3
9. Takemitsu +2
10. Hildegard +1

Respighi -3


----------



## Rapide

10 Victoria
9 Alwyn
8 Wolf
7 Haydn. M
6 Smetana
5 Mieczysław Weinberg
4 Boccherini
3 Boulez
2 Rubinstein
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## pjang23

Current Results:

Composers must reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti - 289
69. Ives - 269
70. Haydn, Michael - 247
71. Biber - 242
72. Respighi - 241
73. Bellini - 233
74. Machaut - 231
75. Reich - 226
76. Pärt - 224
77. Victoria - 215
78. Hummel - 203
79. Borodin - 202
80. Arnold - 194
81. Holst - 193
82. Tallis - 187
83. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 184
84. Delius - 180
85. Alfven - 177
86. Schnittke - 175
87. Rott - 172
88. Penderecki - 171
89. Wolf - 165
90. Hildegard - 163
91. Buxtehude - 162
92. Gershwin - 160
93. Varèse - 157
94. Smetana - 156
95. Byrd - 135
96. Glazunov - 129
97. Corelli - 123
98. Bax - 119
98. Boccherini - 119
100. Albeniz - 113
100. Walton - 113
102. Spohr - 106
103. Novak - 102
104. Hindemith - 101
105. Dowland - 97
106. Boulez - 96
107. Couperin - 95
107. Vogelweide - 95
109. Massenet - 93
110. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
111. Franck - 81
112. Stockhausen - 80
113. Schütz - 77
114. Alwyn - 75
115. Alkan - 74
116. Martinu - 69
117. Offenbach - 68
118. Medtner - 67
119. Szymanowski - 66
119. Zelenka - 66
121. Lutoslawski - 59
122. Ockeghem - 58
123. Brian - 57
123. Takemitsu - 57
125. Crumb - 54
126. Perotin - 52
126. Poulenc - 52
128. Charpentier - 49
129. Piazzolla - 48
130. Falla - 47
131. Rodrigo - 46
132. Enescu - 45
132. Graun - 45
134. Dufay - 41
134. Gombert - 41
134. Honegger - 41
134. Lalo - 41
134. Lassus - 41
139. Glinka - 40
139. Schumann, Clara - 40
141. Hasse - 38
142. Albinoni - 36
142. Leifs - 36
144. Xenakis - 35
145. Clementi - 34
145. Gabrieli - 34
145. Paganini - 34
148. Bernstein - 32
148. Harbison - 32
150. Cage - 31
150. Cherubini - 31
152. Gorecki - 30
153. Bach, W.F. - 29
154. Dussek - 28
154. Granados - 28
156. Sorabji - 26
157. Tippet - 25
158. MacDowell - 23
158. Tveitt - 23
160. Berio - 22
160. Locatelli - 22
162. Carter - 19
162. Golijov - 19
164. Berwald - 17
164. Graupner - 17
164. Khachaturian - 17
164. Mompou - 17
168. Barrios - 16
168. Frescobaldi - 16
168. Skalkottas - 16
171. Henze - 15
171. Parry - 15
173. Hartmann - 14
173. Wohlfahrt - 14
175. Marcello - 11
176. Beach - 10
176. Bridge - 10
176. Leonin - 10
176. Rubinstein - 10
176. Rudland - 10
176. Zemlinsky - 10
176. Zimmerman - 10
183. Krommer - 9
184. Nyman - 8
184. Pettersson - 8
184. Schreker - 8
187. Farrenc - 7
187. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
187. Wyschnegradsky - 7
190. Abel - 6
190. Czerny - 6
190. Eberl - 6
190. Heinichen - 6
190. Meyerbeer - 6
190. Stamitz - 6
196. Gubaidulina - 5
196. Hovhaness - 5
196. Torelli - 5
196. Veress - 5
196. Weinberg - 5
201. Allegri - 4
201. Brouwer - 4
201. Ferneyhough - 4
201. Kodály - 4
201. Krenek - 4
201. Quantz - 4
207. Bloch - 3
207. Simpson - 3
207. Vierne - 3
210. Danzi - 2
210. Landini - 2
210. Myaskovsky - 2
213. Holmboe - 1
213. Monti - 1
213. Strauss I, Johann - 1
213. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
217. Bortkiewicz - -2
218. Ullmann - -6
219. Schobert - -19


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	+	10
Victoria	+	9
Buxtehude	+	8
Walton	+	7
Bax	+	6
Albeniz	+	5
Boccherini	+	4
Dowland	+	3
Ives	+	2
Tippet	+	1

Pärt	-	3


----------



## Jared

Victoria 10
Biber 9
Tallis 8
Hummel 7
Buxtehude 6
Byrd 5
Ockeghem 4
Charpentier 3
Lassus 2
Dufay 1

Widor -3


----------



## TheBamf

I feel uncomfortable giving out anything beyond 7 since I am still very unknowledgeable about many composers.

Ludwig Van Beethoven 7
Gustav Mahler 6
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 5
Franz Schubert 4
Pyotr Illiych Tchaikovsky 3
Edvard Grieg 2
Arvo Part 1


----------



## Jared

^^ I'm afraid Arvo Part ids the only composer who will now qualify for votes, as the others have already exceeded the 300 vote threshold required for eternal glorification..


----------



## TheBamf

Jared said:


> ^^ I'm afraid Arvo Part ids the only composer who will now qualify for votes, as the others have already exceeded the 300 vote threshold required for eternal glorification..


My bad, I misunderstood the system completely.. Will get on to it later once I am more knowledgeable!


----------



## pollux

10	Dowland
9	Schütz
8	Couperin
7	Charpentier
6	Byrd
5	Lassus
4	Frescobaldi
3	Dufay
2	Ockeghem
1	Buxtehude

-3 Respighi


----------



## Vesteralen

Arnold - 10
Alfven - 9
Walton - 8
Leifs - 7
Novak - 6
Franck - 5
Landini - 4
Byrd - 3
Borodin -2
Spohr - 1


----------



## Orpheus

Dufay 10
Byrd 9
Dowland 8
Buxtehude 7
Delius 6
Tallis 5
Szymanowski 4
Brian 3
Holst 2
Franck 1

Pärt -3


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Donizetti
9. Bellini
8. Gershwin
7. Borodin
6. Cage
5. Couperin
4. Paganini
3. Honneger
2. Corelli
1. Arnold


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Smetana · 9
Holst · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


August Schimmelpfennig · -3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Haydn, Michael
7.	Tallis
6.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
5.	Corelli
4.	Franck
3.	Ives
2.	Respighi
1.	Hummel


----------



## Renaissance

Part - 10
Gesualdo - 9
Machaut - 8
Tallis - 7
Buxtehude - 6
Corelli - 5
Byrd - 4
Boccherini - 3
Penderecki -2
Hildegard -1


----------



## Very Senior Member

Two things:

How far are we planning to go with this voting. If we stopped at 100 and took a snaphot at that time of the 100-150 positions, wouldn't that do? 

I've just spotted that Pachelbel isn't included. Next time round I'm going to give him a few points so that he doesn't get completely overlooked. There's a lot more to Pachelbel than his "canon". As noted by Krummhorn recently in another thread, Pachelbel was a very good composer for organ. I have quite a few of his organ pieces, together with some vocal works and chamber works. It's good stuff. I just thought I'd mention this now in case anyone else may wish to allocate some points in his direction


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Xenakis
8 Varese
7 C. Schumann
6 Pachelbel
5 Penderecki
4 Ferneyhough

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> How far are we planning to go with this voting. If we stopped at 100 and took a snaphot at that time of the 100-150 positions, wouldn't that do?


Sounds reasonable.

10 Dufay
9 Ockeghem
8 Franck
7 Couperin
6 Hummel
5 Part
4 Buxtehude
3 Tallis
2 Victoria
1 Donizetti
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Donizetti is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives - 274
70. Haydn, Michael - 252
71. Biber - 251
72. Respighi - 250
73. Bellini - 242
74. Machaut - 239
75. Victoria - 236
76. Pärt - 233
77. Reich - 226
78. Borodin - 221
79. Hummel - 217
79. Tallis - 217
81. Holst - 203
82. Arnold - 202
83. Delius - 196
84. Buxtehude - 194
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 190
86. Alfven - 186
87. Rott - 179
88. Penderecki - 178
89. Schnittke - 175
90. Wolf - 171
91. Gershwin - 168
92. Smetana - 165
92. Varèse - 165
94. Hildegard - 164
95. Byrd - 162
96. Corelli - 139
97. Glazunov - 129
98. Walton - 128
99. Boccherini - 126
100. Bax - 125
101. Albeniz - 118
101. Dowland - 118
103. Couperin - 115
104. Hindemith - 110
105. Novak - 108
106. Spohr - 107
107. Vogelweide - 100
108. Franck - 99
109. Boulez - 96
110. Massenet - 93
111. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
112. Stockhausen - 90
113. Schütz - 86
114. Alwyn - 75
115. Alkan - 74
116. Ockeghem - 73
117. Szymanowski - 70
118. Martinu - 69
119. Offenbach - 68
120. Medtner - 67
121. Zelenka - 66
122. Dufay - 65
123. Brian - 60
124. Charpentier - 59
124. Lutoslawski - 59
126. Takemitsu - 58
127. Crumb - 54
128. Perotin - 52
128. Poulenc - 52
130. Graun - 48
130. Lassus - 48
130. Piazzolla - 48
133. Falla - 47
133. Schumann, Clara - 47
135. Rodrigo - 46
136. Enescu - 45
137. Honegger - 44
137. Xenakis - 44
139. Leifs - 43
140. Gombert - 41
140. Lalo - 41
142. Glinka - 40
143. Albinoni - 38
143. Hasse - 38
143. Paganini - 38
146. Cage - 37
147. Clementi - 34
147. Gabrieli - 34
149. Bernstein - 32
149. Harbison - 32
151. Cherubini - 31
152. Gorecki - 30
153. Bach, W.F. - 29
154. Dussek - 28
154. Granados - 28
156. Sorabji - 26
156. Tippet - 26
158. MacDowell - 23
158. Tveitt - 23
160. Berio - 22
160. Locatelli - 22
162. Frescobaldi - 20
163. Carter - 19
163. Golijov - 19
165. Berwald - 17
165. Graupner - 17
165. Khachaturian - 17
165. Mompou - 17
169. Barrios - 16
169. Skalkottas - 16
171. Henze - 15
171. Parry - 15
173. Hartmann - 14
173. Wohlfahrt - 14
175. Marcello - 11
176. Beach - 10
176. Bridge - 10
176. Leonin - 10
176. Rubinstein - 10
176. Rudland - 10
176. Zemlinsky - 10
176. Zimmerman - 10
183. Krommer - 9
184. Ferneyhough - 8
184. Nyman - 8
184. Pettersson - 8
184. Schreker - 8
188. Farrenc - 7
188. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
188. Wyschnegradsky - 7
191. Abel - 6
191. Czerny - 6
191. Eberl - 6
191. Heinichen - 6
191. Landini - 6
191. Meyerbeer - 6
191. Pachelbel - 6
191. Stamitz - 6
199. Gubaidulina - 5
199. Hovhaness - 5
199. Torelli - 5
199. Veress - 5
199. Weinberg - 5
204. Allegri - 4
204. Brouwer - 4
204. Kodály - 4
204. Krenek - 4
204. Quantz - 4
209. Bloch - 3
209. Simpson - 3
209. Vierne - 3
212. Danzi - 2
212. Myaskovsky - 2
214. Holmboe - 1
214. Monti - 1
214. Strauss I, Johann - 1
214. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
218. Bortkiewicz - -2
219. Widor - -3
220. Ullmann - -6
221. Schobert - -19


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Michael Haydn = +10
Biber = +9
Bellini = +8
Hummel = +7
Alessandro Scarlatti = +6
Buxtehude = +5
Charpentier = +4
Couperin = +3
Schutz = +2
Heinichen = +1

Stockhausen = -3

Edited: Spelling


----------



## Toddlertoddy

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Michael Harden = +10


Freudian slip?


----------



## science

10 Gombert 
9 Machaut 
8 Dufay 
7 Lassus 
6 Kodaly
5 Cage
4 Piazzola 
3 Xenakis 
2 Tallis 
1 Takemitsu 
-3 Schobert


----------



## tdc

10. Ives
9. Albeniz
8. Biber
7. Buxtehude
6. Charpentier
5. Schnittke
4. Couperin
3. Gubaidulina
2. Hildegard
1. Victoria


----------



## Rapide

10 Gershwin
9 Berio 
8 Wolf
7 Haydn. M
6 Smetana
5 Mieczysław Weinberg
4 Boccherini
3 Boulez
2 Rubinstein
1 Alfven
-3 Varèse


----------



## Trout

10 Respighi
9 Tallis
8 Honegger
7 Gabrieli
6 Ives
5 Byrd
4 Borodin
3 Varese
2 Hindemith
1 Lassus
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Bellini +9
3. Biber +8
4 Victoria +7
5. Takemitsu +6
6. A. Scarlatti +5
7. Golijov +4
8. Zelenka +3
9. Massenet +2
10. Dufay +1

Respighi -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	+	10
Buxtehude	+	9
Walton	+	8
Pachelbel	+	7
Bax	+	6
Franck	+	5
Albeniz	+	4
Ockeghem	+	3
Chausson	+	2
Cherubini	+	1

Part	-	3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives - 290
70. Biber - 276
71. Haydn, Michael - 266
72. Bellini - 259
73. Respighi - 257
74. Machaut - 248
75. Victoria - 244
76. Pärt - 230
77. Tallis - 228
78. Reich - 226
79. Borodin - 225
80. Hummel - 224
81. Buxtehude - 215
82. Delius - 206
83. Holst - 203
84. Arnold - 202
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 201
86. Alfven - 187
87. Schnittke - 180
88. Rott - 179
88. Wolf - 179
90. Gershwin - 178
90. Penderecki - 178
92. Smetana - 171
93. Byrd - 167
94. Hildegard - 166
95. Varèse - 165
96. Corelli - 139
97. Walton - 136
98. Albeniz - 131
98. Bax - 131
100. Boccherini - 130
101. Glazunov - 129
102. Couperin - 122
103. Dowland - 118
104. Hindemith - 112
105. Novak - 108
106. Spohr - 107
107. Franck - 104
108. Vogelweide - 100
109. Boulez - 99
110. Massenet - 95
111. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
112. Schütz - 88
113. Stockhausen - 87
114. Offenbach - 78
115. Ockeghem - 76
116. Alwyn - 75
117. Alkan - 74
117. Dufay - 74
119. Szymanowski - 70
120. Charpentier - 69
120. Martinu - 69
120. Zelenka - 69
123. Medtner - 67
124. Takemitsu - 65
125. Brian - 60
126. Lutoslawski - 59
127. Lassus - 56
128. Crumb - 54
129. Honegger - 52
129. Perotin - 52
129. Piazzolla - 52
129. Poulenc - 52
133. Gombert - 51
134. Graun - 48
135. Falla - 47
135. Schumann, Clara - 47
135. Xenakis - 47
138. Rodrigo - 46
139. Enescu - 45
140. Leifs - 43
141. Cage - 42
142. Gabrieli - 41
142. Lalo - 41
144. Glinka - 40
145. Albinoni - 38
145. Hasse - 38
145. Paganini - 38
148. Clementi - 34
149. Bernstein - 32
149. Cherubini - 32
149. Harbison - 32
152. Berio - 31
153. Gorecki - 30
154. Bach, W.F. - 29
155. Dussek - 28
155. Granados - 28
157. Sorabji - 26
157. Tippet - 26
159. Golijov - 23
159. MacDowell - 23
159. Tveitt - 23
162. Locatelli - 22
163. Frescobaldi - 20
164. Carter - 19
165. Berwald - 17
165. Graupner - 17
165. Khachaturian - 17
165. Mompou - 17
169. Barrios - 16
169. Skalkottas - 16
171. Henze - 15
171. Parry - 15
173. Hartmann - 14
173. Wohlfahrt - 14
175. Pachelbel - 13
176. Rubinstein - 12
177. Marcello - 11
178. Beach - 10
178. Bridge - 10
178. Kodály - 10
178. Leonin - 10
178. Rudland - 10
178. Weinberg - 10
178. Zemlinsky - 10
178. Zimmerman - 10
186. Krommer - 9
187. Ferneyhough - 8
187. Gubaidulina - 8
187. Nyman - 8
187. Pettersson - 8
187. Schreker - 8
192. Farrenc - 7
192. Heinichen - 7
192. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
192. Wyschnegradsky - 7
196. Abel - 6
196. Czerny - 6
196. Eberl - 6
196. Landini - 6
196. Meyerbeer - 6
196. Stamitz - 6
202. Hovhaness - 5
202. Torelli - 5
202. Veress - 5
205. Allegri - 4
205. Brouwer - 4
205. Krenek - 4
205. Quantz - 4
209. Bloch - 3
209. Simpson - 3
209. Vierne - 3
212. Chausson - 2
212. Danzi - 2
212. Myaskovsky - 2
215. Holmboe - 1
215. Monti - 1
215. Strauss I, Johann - 1
215. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
219. Bortkiewicz - -2
220. Widor - -3
221. Ullmann - -6
222. Schobert - -22


----------



## Jared

Jared said:


> Victoria 10
> Biber 9
> Tallis 8
> Hummel 7
> Buxtehude 6
> Byrd 5
> Ockeghem 4
> Charpentier 3
> Lassus 2
> Dufay 1


Same again, please... (without the Widor -3)


----------



## Vesteralen

Arnold - 10
Alfven - 9
Walton - 8
Leifs - 7
Novak - 6
Machaut - 5
Landini - 4
Byrd - 3
Borodin -2
Spohr - 1


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Ives (In)
9 - Hummel
8 - Holst
7 - Poulenc
6 - W.F. Bach

-3 - Czerny


----------



## Orpheus

Buxtehude 10
Byrd 9
Dufay 8
Delius 7
Dowland 6
Tallis 5
Szymanowski 4
Franck 3
Barrios 2
Pachelbel 1

Pärt -3


----------



## pollux

10	Dowland
9	Schütz
8	Couperin
7	Byrd
6	Charpentier
5	Lassus
4	Frescobaldi
3	Victoria
2	Buxtehude
1	Biber

-3 Respighi


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Haydn, Michael
7.	Tallis
6.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
5.	Corelli
4.	Franck
3.	Respighi
2.	Hummel
1.	Walton


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Smetana · 9
Holst · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Rafael Naibiru-Lopez · -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Xenakis
8 Varese

-3 M. Haydn


----------



## pjang23

10 Victoria
9 Machaut
8 Tallis
7 Hummel
6 Perotin
5 Byrd
4 Biber
3 Lassus
2 Bellini
1 Hildegard
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Ives is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber - 290
71. Haydn, Michael - 271
72. Respighi - 267
72. Victoria - 267
74. Machaut - 262
75. Bellini - 261
76. Tallis - 256
77. Hummel - 249
78. Borodin - 237
79. Buxtehude - 233
80. Pärt - 227
81. Reich - 226
82. Holst - 219
83. Delius - 213
84. Arnold - 209
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 207
86. Alfven - 196
86. Byrd - 196
88. Rott - 186
89. Wolf - 185
90. Schnittke - 180
90. Smetana - 180
92. Gershwin - 178
92. Penderecki - 178
94. Varèse - 173
95. Hildegard - 167
96. Corelli - 148
97. Walton - 145
98. Dowland - 134
99. Albeniz - 131
99. Bax - 131
101. Boccherini - 130
101. Couperin - 130
103. Glazunov - 129
104. Hindemith - 121
105. Novak - 114
106. Franck - 111
107. Spohr - 108
108. Vogelweide - 105
109. Boulez - 99
110. Schütz - 97
110. Stockhausen - 97
112. Massenet - 95
113. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
114. Dufay - 83
115. Ockeghem - 80
116. Charpentier - 78
116. Offenbach - 78
118. Alwyn - 75
119. Alkan - 74
119. Szymanowski - 74
121. Martinu - 69
121. Zelenka - 69
123. Medtner - 67
124. Lassus - 66
124. Takemitsu - 66
126. Brian - 60
127. Lutoslawski - 59
127. Poulenc - 59
129. Perotin - 58
130. Xenakis - 56
131. Crumb - 54
132. Honegger - 52
132. Piazzolla - 52
134. Gombert - 51
134. Graun - 51
136. Leifs - 50
137. Falla - 47
137. Schumann, Clara - 47
139. Rodrigo - 46
140. Enescu - 45
141. Cage - 42
142. Gabrieli - 41
142. Lalo - 41
144. Albinoni - 40
144. Glinka - 40
146. Hasse - 38
146. Paganini - 38
148. Bach, W.F. - 35
149. Clementi - 34
150. Bernstein - 32
150. Cherubini - 32
150. Harbison - 32
153. Berio - 31
154. Gorecki - 30
155. Dussek - 28
155. Granados - 28
157. Sorabji - 26
157. Tippet - 26
159. Frescobaldi - 24
160. Golijov - 23
160. MacDowell - 23
160. Tveitt - 23
163. Locatelli - 22
164. Carter - 19
165. Barrios - 18
166. Berwald - 17
166. Graupner - 17
166. Khachaturian - 17
166. Mompou - 17
170. Skalkottas - 16
171. Henze - 15
171. Parry - 15
173. Hartmann - 14
173. Pachelbel - 14
173. Wohlfahrt - 14
176. Rubinstein - 12
177. Marcello - 11
178. Beach - 10
178. Bridge - 10
178. Kodály - 10
178. Landini - 10
178. Leonin - 10
178. Rudland - 10
178. Weinberg - 10
178. Zemlinsky - 10
178. Zimmerman - 10
187. Krommer - 9
188. Ferneyhough - 8
188. Gubaidulina - 8
188. Nyman - 8
188. Pettersson - 8
188. Schreker - 8
193. Farrenc - 7
193. Heinichen - 7
193. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
193. Wyschnegradsky - 7
197. Abel - 6
197. Eberl - 6
197. Meyerbeer - 6
197. Stamitz - 6
201. Hovhaness - 5
201. Torelli - 5
201. Veress - 5
204. Allegri - 4
204. Brouwer - 4
204. Krenek - 4
204. Quantz - 4
208. Bloch - 3
208. Czerny - 3
208. Simpson - 3
208. Vierne - 3
212. Chausson - 2
212. Danzi - 2
212. Myaskovsky - 2
215. Holmboe - 1
215. Monti - 1
215. Strauss I, Johann - 1
215. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 1
219. Bortkiewicz - -2
220. Widor - -3
221. Ullmann - -6
222. Schobert - -22


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Biber = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Alessandro Scarlatti = +8
Hummel = +7
Massenet = +6
Buxtehude = +5
Corelli = +4
Couperin = +3
Graun = +2
Hasse = +1

Stockhausen = -3


----------



## science

10 Chausson 
9 Gombert 
8 Kodaly 
7 Enescu
6 Stockhausen
5 Cage 
4 Allegri 
3 Hovhaness 
2 Tchaikovsky, Boris 
1 Bloch


----------



## SimonNZ

10. Machaut
9. Dowland
8. Byrd
7. Schutz
6. Szymanowski
5. Wolf
4. Dufay
3. Lassus
2. Hildegard
1. Couperin

-3 Stockhausen


----------



## Cnote11

10 Takemitsu
9 Penderecki
8 Reich
7 Gorecki
6 Stockhausen
5 Crumb
4 Perotin
3 Part
2 Lutoslawski
1 Falla 

-3 to Hindesmith


----------



## tdc

10. Buxtehude
9. Albeniz
8. Rodrigo
7. Takemitsu
6. Schnittke
5. Dowland
4. Hildegard
3. Charpentier
2. Couperin
1. Walton


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Bellini +10
2. Offenbach +9
3. Hildegard of Bingen +8
4. Dufay +7
5. Alessandro Scarlatti +6
6. F. Delius +5
7. Schütz+4
8. Leonin +3
9. Perotin +2
10. Toru Takemitsu +1

Respighi -3


----------



## Trout

10 Respighi
9 Tallis
8 Honegger
7 Gabrieli
6 Varese
5 Byrd
4 Borodin
3 Paganini
2 Hindemith
1 Lassus
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	+	10
Buxtehude	+	9
Walton	+	8
Holst	+	7
Bax	+	6
Chausson	+	5
Albeniz	+	4
Franck	+	3
Schütz	+	2
Albinoni	+	1

Pärt	-	3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Biber is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Haydn, Michael - 277
72. Respighi - 274
73. Machaut - 272
74. Bellini - 271
75. Victoria - 267
76. Tallis - 265
77. Buxtehude - 257
78. Hummel - 256
79. Borodin - 241
80. Reich - 234
81. Delius - 228
82. Pärt - 227
83. Holst - 226
84. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 221
85. Arnold - 209
85. Byrd - 209
87. Alfven - 196
88. Wolf - 190
89. Penderecki - 187
90. Rott - 186
90. Schnittke - 186
92. Hildegard - 181
93. Smetana - 180
94. Varèse - 179
95. Gershwin - 178
96. Walton - 154
97. Corelli - 152
98. Dowland - 148
99. Albeniz - 144
100. Bax - 137
101. Couperin - 136
102. Boccherini - 130
103. Glazunov - 129
104. Hindemith - 120
105. Franck - 114
105. Novak - 114
107. Schütz - 110
108. Spohr - 108
109. Vogelweide - 105
110. Stockhausen - 103
111. Massenet - 101
112. Boulez - 99
113. Dufay - 94
114. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
115. Offenbach - 87
116. Takemitsu - 84
117. Charpentier - 81
118. Ockeghem - 80
118. Szymanowski - 80
120. Alwyn - 75
121. Alkan - 74
122. Lassus - 70
123. Martinu - 69
123. Zelenka - 69
125. Medtner - 67
126. Perotin - 64
127. Lutoslawski - 61
128. Brian - 60
128. Gombert - 60
128. Honegger - 60
131. Crumb - 59
131. Poulenc - 59
133. Xenakis - 56
134. Rodrigo - 54
135. Graun - 53
136. Enescu - 52
136. Piazzolla - 52
138. Leifs - 50
139. Falla - 48
139. Gabrieli - 48
141. Cage - 47
141. Schumann, Clara - 47
143. Albinoni - 41
143. Lalo - 41
143. Paganini - 41
146. Glinka - 40
147. Hasse - 39
148. Gorecki - 37
149. Bach, W.F. - 35
150. Clementi - 34
151. Bernstein - 32
151. Cherubini - 32
151. Harbison - 32
154. Berio - 31
155. Dussek - 28
155. Granados - 28
157. Sorabji - 26
157. Tippet - 26
159. Frescobaldi - 24
160. Golijov - 23
160. MacDowell - 23
160. Tveitt - 23
163. Locatelli - 22
164. Carter - 19
165. Barrios - 18
165. Kodály - 18
167. Berwald - 17
167. Chausson - 17
167. Graupner - 17
167. Khachaturian - 17
167. Mompou - 17
172. Skalkottas - 16
173. Henze - 15
173. Parry - 15
175. Hartmann - 14
175. Pachelbel - 14
175. Wohlfahrt - 14
178. Leonin - 13
179. Rubinstein - 12
180. Marcello - 11
181. Beach - 10
181. Bridge - 10
181. Landini - 10
181. Rudland - 10
181. Weinberg - 10
181. Zemlinsky - 10
181. Zimmerman - 10
188. Krommer - 9
189. Allegri - 8
189. Ferneyhough - 8
189. Gubaidulina - 8
189. Hovhaness - 8
189. Nyman - 8
189. Pettersson - 8
189. Schreker - 8
196. Farrenc - 7
196. Heinichen - 7
196. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
196. Wyschnegradsky - 7
200. Abel - 6
200. Eberl - 6
200. Meyerbeer - 6
200. Stamitz - 6
204. Torelli - 5
204. Veress - 5
206. Bloch - 4
206. Brouwer - 4
206. Krenek - 4
206. Quantz - 4
210. Czerny - 3
210. Simpson - 3
210. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 3
210. Vierne - 3
214. Danzi - 2
214. Myaskovsky - 2
216. Holmboe - 1
216. Monti - 1
216. Strauss I, Johann - 1
219. Bortkiewicz - -2
220. Widor - -3
221. Ullmann - -6
222. Schobert - -22


----------



## Rapide

10 Gershwin
9 Berio 
8 Wolf
7 Haydn. M
6 Smetana
5 Mieczysław Weinberg
4 Boccherini
3 Boulez
2 Rubinstein
1 Alfven
-3 Varese


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Bellini
9. Gershwin
8. Glazunov
7. Arnold
6. Honneger
5. Borodin
4. Cage
3. Corelli
2. Couperin
1. Gorecki


----------



## Very Senior Member

A few more missing candidates for consideration:

Balakirev
Dukas
Durufle
Gounod
Harris
Ireland
Kabalevsky
Korngold
Milhaud
Pergolesi
Praetorius
Sarasate
Schuman (William)
Stanford
Wieniawski
Ysaÿe


----------



## Vesteralen

I'll take you up on that: 

Arnold - 10
Alfven - 9
Dukas - 8
Gounod - 7
Korngold -6
Milhaud - 5
Pergolesi -4
Schuman (William) - 3
Wieniawski - 2
Ysaÿe - 1


----------



## Orpheus

Dowland 10
Buxtehude 9
Dufay 8
Byrd 7
Tallis 6
Delius 5
Franck 4
Hildegard 3
Brian 2
Sorabji 1

Stockhausen -3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Penderecki - 9
Gershwin - 8
Pärt - 7
Crumb - 6
Tveitt - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Couperin
8	Dowland
7	Charpentier
6	Victoria
5	Byrd
4	Lassus
3	Zelenka
2	Frescobaldi
1	Buxtehude

-3 Respighi


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Haydn, Michael
7.	Tallis
6.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
5.	Corelli
4.	Franck
3.	Respighi
2.	Hummel
1.	Walton


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Xenakis
8 Varese
7 Bax
6 Machaut
5 Part
-3 A. Scarlatti


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Smetana · 9
Holst · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Rasmus van Feldenwiijs · -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Perotin
9 Byrd
8 Machaut
7 Hummel
6 Buxtehude
5 Victoria
4 Tallis
3 Bellini
2 Alkan
1 Glazunov
-3 Arnold

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Haydn, Michael - 292
72. Respighi - 287
73. Machaut - 286
74. Bellini - 284
75. Tallis - 282
76. Buxtehude - 272
76. Victoria - 272
78. Hummel - 265
79. Borodin - 256
80. Reich - 244
81. Pärt - 239
82. Holst - 234
83. Delius - 233
84. Byrd - 225
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 224
86. Arnold - 223
87. Alfven - 206
88. Gershwin - 205
89. Wolf - 204
90. Penderecki - 196
91. Smetana - 195
92. Rott - 193
93. Schnittke - 186
94. Hildegard - 184
94. Varèse - 184
96. Corelli - 164
97. Dowland - 158
98. Walton - 155
99. Albeniz - 144
99. Bax - 144
101. Couperin - 138
101. Glazunov - 138
103. Boccherini - 134
104. Hindemith - 129
105. Franck - 122
106. Novak - 114
107. Schütz - 110
107. Stockhausen - 110
107. Vogelweide - 110
110. Spohr - 108
111. Boulez - 102
111. Dufay - 102
113. Massenet - 101
114. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
115. Takemitsu - 89
116. Offenbach - 87
117. Charpentier - 81
118. Ockeghem - 80
118. Szymanowski - 80
120. Alkan - 76
121. Alwyn - 75
122. Perotin - 74
123. Lassus - 70
124. Martinu - 69
124. Zelenka - 69
126. Medtner - 67
127. Honegger - 66
128. Crumb - 65
128. Xenakis - 65
130. Brian - 64
131. Poulenc - 62
132. Lutoslawski - 61
133. Gombert - 60
134. Graun - 56
135. Rodrigo - 54
136. Cage - 52
136. Enescu - 52
136. Piazzolla - 52
139. Leifs - 50
140. Falla - 48
140. Gabrieli - 48
142. Schumann, Clara - 47
143. Albinoni - 43
144. Lalo - 41
144. Paganini - 41
146. Berio - 40
146. Glinka - 40
148. Hasse - 39
149. Gorecki - 38
150. Bach, W.F. - 35
151. Clementi - 34
152. Bernstein - 32
152. Cherubini - 32
152. Harbison - 32
155. Dussek - 28
155. Granados - 28
155. Tveitt - 28
158. Sorabji - 27
159. Tippet - 26
160. Frescobaldi - 24
161. Golijov - 23
161. MacDowell - 23
163. Locatelli - 22
164. Carter - 19
165. Barrios - 18
165. Kodály - 18
167. Berwald - 17
167. Chausson - 17
167. Graupner - 17
167. Khachaturian - 17
167. Mompou - 17
172. Skalkottas - 16
173. Henze - 15
173. Parry - 15
173. Weinberg - 15
176. Hartmann - 14
176. Pachelbel - 14
176. Rubinstein - 14
176. Wohlfahrt - 14
180. Leonin - 13
181. Marcello - 11
182. Beach - 10
182. Bridge - 10
182. Landini - 10
182. Rudland - 10
182. Zemlinsky - 10
182. Zimmerman - 10
188. Krommer - 9
189. Allegri - 8
189. Dukas - 8
189. Ferneyhough - 8
189. Gubaidulina - 8
189. Hovhaness - 8
189. Nyman - 8
189. Pettersson - 8
189. Schreker - 8
197. Farrenc - 7
197. Gounod - 7
197. Heinichen - 7
197. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
197. Wyschnegradsky - 7
202. Abel - 6
202. Eberl - 6
202. Korngold - 6
202. Meyerbeer - 6
202. Stamitz - 6
207. Milhaud - 5
207. Torelli - 5
207. Veress - 5
210. Bloch - 4
210. Brouwer - 4
210. Krenek - 4
210. Pergolesi - 4
210. Quantz - 4
215. Czerny - 3
215. Schuman, William - 3
215. Simpson - 3
215. Tchaikovsky, Boris - 3
215. Vierne - 3
220. Danzi - 2
220. Myaskovsky - 2
220. Wieniawski - 2
223. Holmboe - 1
223. Monti - 1
223. Strauss I, Johann - 1
223. Ysaÿe - 1
227. Bortkiewicz - -2
228. Widor - -3
229. Ullmann - -6
230. Schobert - -22


----------



## Conor71

10 Part
9 Byrd


----------



## SimonNZ

10. Machaut
9. Byrd
8. Dowland
7. Schutz
6. Wolf
5. Szymananowski


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Bellini = +10
Alessandro Scarlatti = +9
Buxtehude = +8
Victoria = +7
Hummel = +6
Graun = +5
Hasse = +4
WF Bach = +3
Graupner = +2
Stamitz = +1

Pärt = -3


----------



## science

10 D'Indy
9 Canteloube
8 Widor
7 Kodaly 
6 Chausson
5 Vierne 
4 Lalo
4 Berwald 
3 Enescu 
2 Bortkiewicz 
1 Khachaturian 
-3 Tchaikovsky, Boris


----------



## Trout

10 Respighi
9 Tallis
8 Lutoslawski
7 Gabrieli
6 Varese
5 Byrd
4 Borodin
3 Paganini
2 Hindemith
1 Lassus
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## tdc

10. Buxtehude
9. Albeniz
8. Falla
7. Szymanowski
6. Charpentier
5. Couperin
4. Schnittke
3. Brian
2. Hildegard
1. Rodrigo


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Tallis +9 (He should be in)
3. Hildegard +8
4. Bellini + 7 (He should be in)
5. Buxtehude +6
6. Delius +5
7. Alessandro Scarlatti +4
8. Leonin +3
9. Perotin +2
10. Corelli +1

Respighi -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

I'm devoting all of my today's vote to getting some notable exclusions thus far into the running for at least the lower ranks before we pack up voting. Some of these composers are heaps better than several currently in the lower reaches of the ranks, where things look very suspect in my view.

Balakirev +10
Pergolesi +9
Dukas +8
Harris +7
Schuman (William) +6
Korngold +5
Sarasate +4
Wieniawski +3
Milhaud +2
Ireland +1

Part -3


----------



## pjang23

EDIT: Including StevenOBrien and pollux's votes

Current Results: Bellini, Tallis, Buxtehude and Machaut are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Respighi - 291
76. Haydn, Michael - 289
77. Victoria - 282
78. Hummel - 281
79. Borodin - 260
80. Byrd - 254
81. Reich - 253
82. Pärt - 249
83. Holst - 242
84. Delius - 241
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 237
86. Arnold - 223
87. Wolf - 212
88. Gershwin - 209
89. Alfven - 206
90. Penderecki - 196
91. Smetana - 195
92. Hildegard - 194
93. Rott - 193
94. Varèse - 191
95. Schnittke - 190
96. Dowland - 174
97. Corelli - 172
98. Couperin - 157
99. Walton - 155
100. Albeniz - 153
101. Bax - 144
102. Glazunov - 138
103. Boccherini - 134
104. Hindemith - 131
105. Schütz - 127
106. Franck - 122
107. Novak - 114
108. Stockhausen - 110
108. Vogelweide - 110
110. Spohr - 108
111. Boulez - 102
111. Dufay - 102
113. Massenet - 101
114. Offenbach - 97
115. Charpentier - 94
116. Szymanowski - 92
117. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
118. Takemitsu - 89
119. Ockeghem - 80
120. Alkan - 77
121. Perotin - 76
122. Alwyn - 75
123. Lassus - 71
124. Lutoslawski - 69
124. Martinu - 69
124. Zelenka - 69
127. Brian - 67
127. Medtner - 67
129. Honegger - 66
130. Crumb - 65
130. Xenakis - 65
132. Poulenc - 64
133. Graun - 61
134. Gombert - 60
135. Falla - 56
136. Gabrieli - 55
136. Rodrigo - 55
138. Enescu - 54
139. Cage - 52
139. Piazzolla - 52
141. Leifs - 50
142. Schumann, Clara - 47
143. Lalo - 45
144. Paganini - 44
145. Albinoni - 43
145. Hasse - 43
147. Berio - 40
147. Glinka - 40
149. Bach, W.F. - 38
149. Gorecki - 38
151. Clementi - 34
152. Bernstein - 32
152. Cherubini - 32
152. Harbison - 32
155. Dussek - 28
155. Granados - 28
155. Tveitt - 28
158. Sorabji - 27
159. Tippet - 26
160. Kodály - 25
161. Frescobaldi - 24
162. Chausson - 23
162. Golijov - 23
162. MacDowell - 23
165. Locatelli - 22
166. Berwald - 20
167. Carter - 19
167. Graupner - 19
169. Barrios - 18
170. Khachaturian - 17
170. Mompou - 17
172. Dukas - 16
172. Leonin - 16
172. Skalkottas - 16
175. Henze - 15
175. Parry - 15
175. Weinberg - 15
178. Hartmann - 14
178. Pachelbel - 14
178. Rubinstein - 14
178. Wohlfahrt - 14
182. Pergolesi - 13
183. Korngold - 11
183. Marcello - 11
185. Balakirev - 10
185. Beach - 10
185. Bridge - 10
185. D'Indy - 10
185. Landini - 10
185. Rudland - 10
185. Zemlinsky - 10
185. Zimmerman - 10
193. Canteloube - 9
193. Krommer - 9
193. Schuman, William - 9
196. Allegri - 8
196. Ferneyhough - 8
196. Gubaidulina - 8
196. Hovhaness - 8
196. Nyman - 8
196. Pettersson - 8
196. Schreker - 8
196. Vierne - 8
204. Farrenc - 7
204. Gounod - 7
204. Harris - 7
204. Heinichen - 7
204. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
204. Milhaud - 7
204. Stamitz - 7
204. Wyschnegradsky - 7
212. Abel - 6
212. Eberl - 6
212. Meyerbeer - 6
215. Torelli - 5
215. Veress - 5
215. Widor - 5
215. Wieniawski - 5
219. Bloch - 4
219. Brouwer - 4
219. Krenek - 4
219. Quantz - 4
219. Sarasate - 4
224. Czerny - 3
224. Simpson - 3
226. Danzi - 2
226. Myaskovsky - 2
228. Holmboe - 1
228. Ireland - 1
228. Monti - 1
228. Strauss I, Johann - 1
228. Ysaÿe - 1
233. Bortkiewicz - -1
234. Ullmann - -6
235. Schobert - -22


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Hummel
9 - Reich
8 - Holst
7 - Corelli
6 - Part
5 - Couperin
4 - Gershwin
3 - Delius
2 - Poulenc
1 - Alkan


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Couperin
8	Dowland
7	Charpentier
6	Byrd
5	Buxtehude (IN)
4	Machaut (IN)
3	Victoria
2	Wolf
1	Varèse

-3 Respighi


----------



## Orpheus

10 - Dowland
9 - Dufay
8 - Victoria
7 - Byrd
6 - Delius
5 - Szymanowski
4 - Franck
3 - Vierne
2 - Sorabji
1 - Rodrigo

-3 - Respighi


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Penderecki - 9
Gershwin - 8
Pärt - 7
Crumb - 6
Tveitt - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## Trout

10 Victoria
9 Respighi
8 Byrd
7 Borodin
6 Varese
5 Hindemith
4 Honegger
3 Lutoslawski
2 Gabrieli
1 Gershwin
-3 Haydn, M.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin	
9.	Hindemith	
8.	Haydn, Michael	
7.	Scarlatti, Alessandro	
6.	Corelli	
5.	Franck	
4.	Hummel	
3.	Walton	
2.	Couperin	
1.	Chausson


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Part
8 Gershwin
7 Bax
6 Varese
-3 M. Haydn


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Respighi · 10
Smetana · 9
Holst · 8
Rott · 7
Wolf · 6
von der Vogelweide · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Flaumbart von Stubbe-Beringhausen · -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Chausson
9 Byrd
8 Perotin
7 Hummel
6 Lassus
5 Dufay
4 Ockeghem
3 Hildegard
2 Glazunov
1 Alkan
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Victoria and Respighi are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel - 292
78. Haydn, Michael - 291
79. Byrd - 278
80. Borodin - 277
81. Pärt - 265
82. Reich - 263
83. Holst - 250
84. Delius - 247
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 244
86. Gershwin - 226
87. Arnold - 220
88. Wolf - 218
89. Alfven - 206
90. Penderecki - 205
91. Smetana - 204
92. Varèse - 203
93. Rott - 200
94. Hildegard - 197
95. Schnittke - 190
96. Dowland - 184
97. Corelli - 182
98. Couperin - 159
99. Walton - 158
100. Albeniz - 153
101. Bax - 151
102. Hindemith - 145
103. Glazunov - 140
104. Boccherini - 134
105. Franck - 131
106. Schütz - 127
107. Stockhausen - 120
108. Dufay - 116
109. Vogelweide - 115
110. Novak - 114
111. Spohr - 108
112. Boulez - 102
113. Massenet - 101
114. Offenbach - 97
114. Szymanowski - 97
116. Charpentier - 94
116. Takemitsu - 94
118. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
119. Ockeghem - 84
119. Perotin - 84
121. Alkan - 78
122. Lassus - 77
123. Alwyn - 75
124. Lutoslawski - 72
125. Crumb - 71
126. Honegger - 70
127. Brian - 69
127. Martinu - 69
127. Zelenka - 69
130. Medtner - 67
130. Poulenc - 67
132. Xenakis - 65
133. Graun - 64
134. Gombert - 60
135. Gabrieli - 57
136. Falla - 56
136. Rodrigo - 56
138. Enescu - 54
139. Cage - 53
140. Piazzolla - 52
141. Leifs - 50
142. Schumann, Clara - 47
143. Albinoni - 45
143. Lalo - 45
145. Paganini - 44
146. Hasse - 43
147. Berio - 40
147. Glinka - 40
149. Bach, W.F. - 38
149. Gorecki - 38
151. Chausson - 34
151. Clementi - 34
153. Tveitt - 33
154. Bernstein - 32
154. Cherubini - 32
154. Harbison - 32
157. Sorabji - 29
158. Dussek - 28
158. Granados - 28
160. Tippet - 26
161. Kodály - 25
162. Frescobaldi - 24
163. Golijov - 23
163. MacDowell - 23
165. Locatelli - 22
166. Berwald - 20
167. Carter - 19
167. Graupner - 19
169. Barrios - 18
170. Khachaturian - 17
170. Mompou - 17
172. Dukas - 16
172. Leonin - 16
172. Skalkottas - 16
175. Henze - 15
175. Parry - 15
175. Weinberg - 15
178. Hartmann - 14
178. Pachelbel - 14
178. Rubinstein - 14
178. Wohlfahrt - 14
182. Pergolesi - 13
183. Korngold - 11
183. Marcello - 11
183. Vierne - 11
186. Balakirev - 10
186. Beach - 10
186. Bridge - 10
186. D'Indy - 10
186. Landini - 10
186. Rudland - 10
186. Zemlinsky - 10
186. Zimmerman - 10
194. Canteloube - 9
194. Krommer - 9
194. Schuman, William - 9
197. Allegri - 8
197. Ferneyhough - 8
197. Gubaidulina - 8
197. Hovhaness - 8
197. Nyman - 8
197. Pettersson - 8
197. Schreker - 8
204. Farrenc - 7
204. Gounod - 7
204. Harris - 7
204. Heinichen - 7
204. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
204. Milhaud - 7
204. Stamitz - 7
204. Wyschnegradsky - 7
212. Abel - 6
212. Eberl - 6
212. Meyerbeer - 6
215. Torelli - 5
215. Veress - 5
215. Widor - 5
215. Wieniawski - 5
219. Bloch - 4
219. Brouwer - 4
219. Krenek - 4
219. Quantz - 4
219. Sarasate - 4
224. Czerny - 3
224. Simpson - 3
226. Danzi - 2
226. Myaskovsky - 2
228. Holmboe - 1
228. Ireland - 1
228. Monti - 1
228. Strauss I, Johann - 1
228. Ysaÿe - 1
233. Bortkiewicz - -1
234. Ullmann - -6
235. Schobert - -22


----------



## crmoorhead

10. pts Gershwin
9. Glazunov
8. Honneger
7. Borodin
6. Cage
5. Falla
4. Couperin
3. Corelli
2. Arnold
1. Reich


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Spohr = +10
Michael Haydn = +9
Hummel = +8
WF Bach = +7
Albinoni = +6
Corelli = +5
Schutz = +4
Dussek = +3
Graupner = +2
Hasse = +1

Stockhausen = - 3,000


----------



## science

10 Gounod 
9 Milhaud
8 Korngold 
7 Canteloube 
6 D'Indy
5 Ireland
4 Widor
3 Vierne
2 Danzi 
1 Czerny 
-3 Simpson


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Rodrigo
8. Charpentier
7. Couperin
6. Schnittke
5. Dowland
4. Takemitsu
3. Gubaidulina
2. Falla
1. Hildegard


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Delius +9
3. Alessandro Scarlatti +8
4. Hildegard +7
5. Zelenka +6
6. Korngold +5
7. Dufay +4
8. Corelli +3
9. Schütz +2
10. Perotin +1

Borodin -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Delius	+	10
Walton	+	9
Holst	+	8
Bax	+	7
Chausson	+	6
Albeniz	+	5
Schuman, William	+	4
Schütz	+	3
Harris	+	2
Korngold	+	1

Pärt	-	3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Hummel and Michael Haydn are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Borodin - 281
80. Byrd - 278
81. Delius - 266
82. Reich - 264
83. Pärt - 262
84. Holst - 258
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 252
86. Gershwin - 236
87. Arnold - 222
88. Wolf - 218
89. Alfven - 206
90. Hildegard - 205
90. Penderecki - 205
92. Smetana - 204
93. Varèse - 203
94. Rott - 200
95. Schnittke - 196
96. Corelli - 193
97. Dowland - 189
98. Couperin - 170
99. Albeniz - 168
100. Walton - 167
101. Bax - 158
102. Glazunov - 149
103. Hindemith - 145
104. Schütz - 136
105. Boccherini - 134
106. Franck - 131
107. Dufay - 120
108. Spohr - 118
109. Stockhausen - 117
110. Vogelweide - 115
111. Novak - 114
112. Offenbach - 107
113. Boulez - 102
113. Charpentier - 102
115. Massenet - 101
116. Takemitsu - 98
117. Szymanowski - 97
118. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
119. Perotin - 85
120. Ockeghem - 84
121. Alkan - 78
121. Honegger - 78
123. Lassus - 77
124. Alwyn - 75
124. Zelenka - 75
126. Lutoslawski - 72
127. Crumb - 71
128. Brian - 69
128. Martinu - 69
130. Medtner - 67
130. Poulenc - 67
132. Rodrigo - 65
132. Xenakis - 65
134. Graun - 64
135. Falla - 63
136. Gombert - 60
137. Cage - 59
138. Gabrieli - 57
139. Enescu - 54
140. Piazzolla - 52
141. Albinoni - 51
142. Leifs - 50
143. Schumann, Clara - 47
144. Bach, W.F. - 45
144. Lalo - 45
146. Hasse - 44
146. Paganini - 44
148. Berio - 40
148. Chausson - 40
148. Glinka - 40
151. Gorecki - 38
152. Clementi - 34
153. Tveitt - 33
154. Bernstein - 32
154. Cherubini - 32
154. Harbison - 32
157. Dussek - 31
158. Sorabji - 29
159. Granados - 28
160. Tippet - 26
161. Kodály - 25
161. Korngold - 25
163. Frescobaldi - 24
164. Golijov - 23
164. MacDowell - 23
166. Locatelli - 22
167. Graupner - 21
168. Berwald - 20
169. Carter - 19
170. Barrios - 18
171. Gounod - 17
171. Khachaturian - 17
171. Mompou - 17
174. Canteloube - 16
174. D'Indy - 16
174. Dukas - 16
174. Leonin - 16
174. Milhaud - 16
174. Skalkottas - 16
180. Henze - 15
180. Parry - 15
180. Weinberg - 15
183. Hartmann - 14
183. Pachelbel - 14
183. Rubinstein - 14
183. Vierne - 14
183. Wohlfahrt - 14
188. Pergolesi - 13
188. Schuman, William - 13
190. Gubaidulina - 11
190. Marcello - 11
192. Balakirev - 10
192. Beach - 10
192. Bridge - 10
192. Landini - 10
192. Rudland - 10
192. Zemlinsky - 10
192. Zimmerman - 10
199. Harris - 9
199. Krommer - 9
199. Widor - 9
202. Allegri - 8
202. Ferneyhough - 8
202. Hovhaness - 8
202. Nyman - 8
202. Pettersson - 8
202. Schreker - 8
208. Farrenc - 7
208. Heinichen - 7
208. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
208. Stamitz - 7
208. Wyschnegradsky - 7
213. Abel - 6
213. Eberl - 6
213. Ireland - 6
213. Meyerbeer - 6
217. Torelli - 5
217. Veress - 5
217. Wieniawski - 5
220. Bloch - 4
220. Brouwer - 4
220. Czerny - 4
220. Danzi - 4
220. Krenek - 4
220. Quantz - 4
220. Sarasate - 4
227. Myaskovsky - 2
228. Holmboe - 1
228. Monti - 1
228. Strauss I, Johann - 1
228. Ysaÿe - 1
232. Bortkiewicz - -1
233. Ullmann - -6
234. Schobert - -22


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Couperin
8	Dowland
7	Charpentier
6	Byrd
5	Falla
4	Martinu
3	Lutoslawski
2	B.A. Zimmermann
1	Xenakis

-3 Pärt


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Holst · 9
Rott · 8
Wolf · 7
von der Vogelweide · 6
Pachelbel · 5
Corelli · 4
Graun, C.H. · 3
Albinoni · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Ambrosius Nectarino Münchradt · -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Ambrosius Nectarino Münchradt · -3


We'll have to have a vote at the end of this to establish the greatest of all these fabulously-sounding names you have come up with.


----------



## Orpheus

I'm going to introduce a few new names with my lower votes, just to make sure they're on the list and in people's reckoning. I think they all deserve to be; two at least are surprising omissions.

Dowland 10
Dufay 9
Brian 8
Delius 7
Byrd 6
Franck 5
Gibbons 4
Sor 3
Da Milano 2
Ponce 1

Pärt -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Orpheus said:


> I'm going to introduce a few new names with my lower votes, just to make sure they're on the list and in people's reckoning. I think they all deserve to be; two at least are surprising omissions.


I did the same yesterday for all 10 of my votes. There are still several other worthy candidates for consideration. Two examples: Myslivecek (early classical), Moszkowski (late romantic). The wind octets of Myslivecek are especially good.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Penderecki - 9
Gershwin - 8
Pärt - 7
Crumb - 6
Tveitt - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Borodin
9.	Hindemith
8.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
7.	Corelli
6.	Franck
5.	Walton
4.	Couperin
3.	Chausson
2.	Glazunov
1.	Boccherini


----------



## pjang23

10 Byrd
9 Part
8 Chausson
7 Perotin
6 Ockeghem
5 Glazunov
4 Mathieu
3 Corelli
2 Lassus
1 Hildegard
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Byrd is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin - 291
81. Reich - 274
82. Delius - 273
83. Pärt - 272
84. Holst - 267
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 260
86. Gershwin - 244
87. Wolf - 225
88. Arnold - 219
89. Penderecki - 214
89. Smetana - 214
91. Rott - 208
92. Corelli - 207
92. Dowland - 207
94. Alfven - 206
94. Hildegard - 206
96. Varèse - 203
97. Schnittke - 196
98. Couperin - 183
99. Walton - 172
100. Albeniz - 168
101. Bax - 158
102. Glazunov - 156
103. Hindemith - 154
104. Schütz - 146
105. Franck - 142
106. Boccherini - 135
107. Dufay - 129
108. Vogelweide - 121
109. Spohr - 118
110. Stockhausen - 117
111. Novak - 114
112. Charpentier - 109
113. Offenbach - 107
114. Takemitsu - 103
115. Boulez - 102
116. Massenet - 101
117. Szymanowski - 97
118. Perotin - 92
119. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
120. Ockeghem - 90
121. Brian - 79
121. Lassus - 79
123. Alkan - 78
123. Honegger - 78
125. Crumb - 77
126. Alwyn - 75
126. Lutoslawski - 75
126. Zelenka - 75
129. Martinu - 73
130. Poulenc - 70
131. Falla - 68
132. Graun - 67
132. Medtner - 67
134. Xenakis - 66
135. Rodrigo - 65
136. Cage - 60
136. Gombert - 60
138. Gabrieli - 57
139. Enescu - 54
140. Albinoni - 53
141. Piazzolla - 52
142. Chausson - 51
143. Leifs - 50
144. Schumann, Clara - 47
145. Bach, W.F. - 45
145. Lalo - 45
147. Hasse - 44
147. Paganini - 44
149. Berio - 40
149. Glinka - 40
151. Gorecki - 38
151. Tveitt - 38
153. Clementi - 34
154. Bernstein - 32
154. Cherubini - 32
154. Harbison - 32
157. Dussek - 31
158. Sorabji - 29
159. Granados - 28
160. Tippet - 26
161. Kodály - 25
161. Korngold - 25
163. Frescobaldi - 24
164. Golijov - 23
164. MacDowell - 23
166. Locatelli - 22
167. Graupner - 21
168. Berwald - 20
169. Carter - 19
169. Pachelbel - 19
171. Barrios - 18
172. Gounod - 17
172. Khachaturian - 17
172. Mompou - 17
175. Canteloube - 16
175. D'Indy - 16
175. Dukas - 16
175. Leonin - 16
175. Milhaud - 16
175. Skalkottas - 16
181. Henze - 15
181. Parry - 15
181. Weinberg - 15
184. Hartmann - 14
184. Rubinstein - 14
184. Vierne - 14
184. Wohlfahrt - 14
188. Pergolesi - 13
188. Schuman, William - 13
190. Zimmerman - 12
191. Gubaidulina - 11
191. Marcello - 11
193. Balakirev - 10
193. Beach - 10
193. Bridge - 10
193. Landini - 10
193. Rudland - 10
193. Zemlinsky - 10
199. Harris - 9
199. Krommer - 9
199. Widor - 9
202. Allegri - 8
202. Ferneyhough - 8
202. Hovhaness - 8
202. Nyman - 8
202. Pettersson - 8
202. Schreker - 8
208. Farrenc - 7
208. Heinichen - 7
208. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
208. Stamitz - 7
208. Wyschnegradsky - 7
213. Abel - 6
213. Eberl - 6
213. Ireland - 6
213. Meyerbeer - 6
217. Torelli - 5
217. Veress - 5
217. Wieniawski - 5
220. Bloch - 4
220. Brouwer - 4
220. Czerny - 4
220. Danzi - 4
220. Gibbons - 4
220. Krenek - 4
220. Mathieu - 4
220. Quantz - 4
220. Sarasate - 4
229. Sor - 3
230. Da Milano - 2
230. Myaskovsky - 2
232. Holmboe - 1
232. Monti - 1
232. Ponce - 1
232. Strauss I, Johann - 1
232. Ysaÿe - 1
237. Bortkiewicz - -1
238. Ullmann - -6
239. Schobert - -22


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Reich
9 - Holst
8 - Part
7 - Corelli
6 - Poulenc
5 - Delius
4 - Gerswhin
3 - Hindemith
2 - Alkan
1 - Smetana

-3 - Czerny


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Alessandro Scarlatti = +10
Massenet = +9
Abel = +8
Spohr = +7
Quantz = +6
Graupner = +5
Locatelli = +4
Hasse = +3
Graun = +2
Heinichen = +1

Pärt = -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Part
8 Gershwin
7 Xenakis
6 Martinu
5 Hildegard

-3 A. Scarlatti


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Charpentier
8. Couperin
7. Schutz
6. Schnittke
5. Dowland
4. Hildegard
3. Rodrigo
2. Medtner
1. Takemitsu


----------



## Rapide

Massenet 10
Boulez 9
Farrenc 8
Charpentier 7

Stockhausen -3


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Borodin
8 Lutoslawski
7 Gabrieli
6 Couperin
5 Honegger
4 Schutz
3 Paganini
2 Hindemith
1 Lassus
-3 Scarlatti, A.


----------



## science

10 Pergolesi
9 Gounod 
8 Kodaly 
7 Balakirev 
6 Chausson 
5 Gombert 
4 Dufay
3 Gabrieli 
2 Hovhaness 
1 Milhaud 
-3 Schobert


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Scarlatti, Alessandro +10 (I can't believe anybody who has actually listened to Alessandro Scarlatti would believe that at no. 85 he is overrated)
2. Offenbach +9
3. Wolf +8
4. Perotin +7
5. Hildegard of Bingen +6
6. Dufay +5
7. Schütz +4
8. Takemitsu +3
9. Zelenka +2
10. Johann Joseph Fux +1

Stockhausen -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Borodin is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Pärt - 286
82. Reich - 284
83. Delius - 278
84. Holst - 276
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 274
86. Gershwin - 256
87. Wolf - 233
88. Hildegard - 221
89. Arnold - 219
90. Smetana - 215
91. Corelli - 214
91. Penderecki - 214
93. Varèse - 213
94. Dowland - 212
95. Rott - 208
96. Alfven - 206
97. Schnittke - 202
98. Couperin - 197
99. Albeniz - 178
100. Walton - 172
101. Schütz - 161
102. Hindemith - 159
103. Bax - 158
104. Glazunov - 156
105. Franck - 142
106. Dufay - 138
107. Boccherini - 135
108. Charpentier - 125
108. Spohr - 125
110. Stockhausen - 121
110. Vogelweide - 121
112. Massenet - 120
113. Offenbach - 116
114. Novak - 114
115. Boulez - 111
116. Takemitsu - 107
117. Perotin - 99
118. Szymanowski - 97
119. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
120. Ockeghem - 90
121. Honegger - 83
121. Lutoslawski - 83
123. Alkan - 80
123. Lassus - 80
125. Brian - 79
125. Martinu - 79
127. Crumb - 77
127. Zelenka - 77
129. Poulenc - 76
130. Alwyn - 75
131. Xenakis - 73
132. Graun - 69
132. Medtner - 69
134. Falla - 68
134. Rodrigo - 68
136. Gabrieli - 67
137. Gombert - 65
138. Cage - 60
139. Chausson - 57
140. Enescu - 54
141. Albinoni - 53
142. Piazzolla - 52
143. Leifs - 50
144. Hasse - 47
144. Paganini - 47
144. Schumann, Clara - 47
147. Bach, W.F. - 45
147. Lalo - 45
149. Berio - 40
149. Glinka - 40
151. Gorecki - 38
151. Tveitt - 38
153. Clementi - 34
154. Kodály - 33
155. Bernstein - 32
155. Cherubini - 32
155. Harbison - 32
158. Dussek - 31
159. Sorabji - 29
160. Granados - 28
161. Gounod - 26
161. Graupner - 26
161. Locatelli - 26
161. Tippet - 26
165. Korngold - 25
166. Frescobaldi - 24
167. Golijov - 23
167. MacDowell - 23
167. Pergolesi - 23
170. Berwald - 20
171. Carter - 19
171. Pachelbel - 19
173. Barrios - 18
174. Balakirev - 17
174. Khachaturian - 17
174. Milhaud - 17
174. Mompou - 17
178. Canteloube - 16
178. D'Indy - 16
178. Dukas - 16
178. Leonin - 16
178. Skalkottas - 16
183. Farrenc - 15
183. Henze - 15
183. Parry - 15
183. Weinberg - 15
187. Abel - 14
187. Hartmann - 14
187. Rubinstein - 14
187. Vierne - 14
187. Wohlfahrt - 14
192. Schuman, William - 13
193. Zimmerman - 12
194. Gubaidulina - 11
194. Marcello - 11
196. Beach - 10
196. Bridge - 10
196. Hovhaness - 10
196. Landini - 10
196. Quantz - 10
196. Rudland - 10
196. Zemlinsky - 10
203. Harris - 9
203. Krommer - 9
203. Widor - 9
206. Allegri - 8
206. Ferneyhough - 8
206. Heinichen - 8
206. Nyman - 8
206. Pettersson - 8
206. Schreker - 8
212. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
212. Stamitz - 7
212. Wyschnegradsky - 7
215. Eberl - 6
215. Ireland - 6
215. Meyerbeer - 6
218. Torelli - 5
218. Veress - 5
218. Wieniawski - 5
221. Bloch - 4
221. Brouwer - 4
221. Danzi - 4
221. Gibbons - 4
221. Krenek - 4
221. Mathieu - 4
221. Sarasate - 4
228. Sor - 3
229. Da Milano - 2
229. Myaskovsky - 2
231. Czerny - 1
231. Fux - 1
231. Holmboe - 1
231. Monti - 1
231. Ponce - 1
231. Strauss I, Johann - 1
231. Ysaÿe - 1
238. Bortkiewicz - -1
239. Ullmann - -6
240. Schobert - -25


----------



## pollux

10 Schütz
9	Couperin
8	Dowland
7	Charpentier
6	Graupner
5	Fux
4	Zemlinsky
3	Martinu
2	Zimmerman
1	Falla

-3	Pärt


----------



## pollux

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. Scarlatti, Alessandro +10 (I can't believe anybody who has actually listened to Alessandro Scarlatti would believe that at no. 85 he is overrated)


I must admit that Scarlatti is a terrible gap in my collection. Any suggestions of where to begin with?


----------



## Guest

Debussy 10
Beethoven 9
Satie 8
Holst 7
Stravinsky 6

(I'm working on the other 5)

Mahler -3


----------



## pollux

MacLeod said:


> Debussy 10
> Beethoven 9
> Satie 8
> Holst 7
> Stravinsky 6
> 
> (I'm working on the other 5)
> 
> Mahler -3


You're too late. You can only vote for those composers who aren't yet qualified (less than 300 votes). I agree with those -3 for Mahler, though


----------



## Guest

pollux said:


> You're too late. You can only vote for those composers who aren't yet qualified (less than 300 votes). I agree with those -3 for Mahler, though


Oops! Had only read first couple and last couple of posts. 91 pages of posts is a lot for a newbie to wade through before getting stuck in!

OK

Holst 10
Reich 9
Massenet 8
Poulenc 7
(If we can have Korngold, can we have Steiner, Max? 6pts)


----------



## pollux

MacLeod said:


> (If we can have Korngold, can we have Steiner, Max? 6pts)


Well, Steiner composed great scores for films like _Gone with the Wind_, _The Charge of the Light Brigade_, _King Kong_ and _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_. I don't know if he composed any opera, concerto or chamber music like Korngold did. It's the OP who should determine if he's valid for the purpose of this thread.


----------



## Guest

pollux said:


> Well, Steiner composed great scores for films like _Gone with the Wind_, _The Charge of the Light Brigade_, _King Kong_ and _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_.


Exactly.

But of course, it is for the OP to determine their own rules on this one. If so, I'd ask what's the definition of a "classical composer"?


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. Scarlatti, Alessandro +10 (I can't believe anybody who has actually listened to Alessandro Scarlatti would believe that at no. 85 he is overrated)


Except maybe those with about 12 CDs in their collection ...

Give these a try.


----------



## pollux

Thanks HC, I will. Any recording recommendations for shorter-scale genres like cantatas?


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax	+	10
Walton	+	9
Holst	+	8
Delius	+	7
Tippet	+	6
Korngold	+	5
Schuman, William	+	4
Franck	+	3
Harris	+	2
Korngold	+	1

Pärt	-	3


----------



## Cygnenoir

Reich - 10
Penderecki - 9
Gershwin - 8
Pärt - 7
Crumb - 6
Tveitt - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## Very Senior Member

pollux said:


> I must admit that Scarlatti is a terrible gap in my collection. Any suggestions of where to begin with?


Remember that we're talking about Alessandro Scarlatti here, not his rather more famous son, Domenico Scarlatti who is already "in" at No 36. Both were highly competent baroque composers but Domenico is mainly mainly famous for his many keyboard sonatas, whilst Alessandro was more into opera, concertos and church vocal music There was another less famous composer, Pietro Filippo Scarlatti. Whichever member of the Scarlatti family you may be intersted in, I would suggest that you may find a convenient and easy way of finding out more about their best works is to look at the Arkiv website.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio




----------



## pollux

Thanks. As I'm in love with Sandrine Piau since I listened to her sing Mendelssohn's _Elijah _live, I'll probably begin with that.


----------



## Orpheus

Dowland 10
Dufay 9
Franck 8
Szymanowski 7
Brian 6
Delius 5
Barrios 4
Vierne 3
Sor 2
Sorabji 1

Pärt -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Part
9 Stockhausen
8 Bax
7 Xenakis
6 Boulez
5 Lutoslawski

-3 A. Scarlatti


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

10 Part
9 Stockhausen
8 Bax
7 Xenakis
6 Boulez
5 Lutoslawski

-3 A. Scarlatti

I guess ol' Alessandro just isn't well represented on YouTube.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith
9.	Scarlatti, Alessandro
8.	Corelli
7.	Franck
6.	Walton
5.	Couperin
4.	Chausson
3.	Glazunov
2.	Boccherini
1.	Albinoni


----------



## crmoorhead

10pts. Gershwin
9. Couperin
8. Honneger
7. Cage
6. Arnold
5. Corelli
4. Falla
3. Gorecki
2. Dukas
1. Bernstein


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Alessandro Scarlatti = +10
Massenet = +9
Spohr = +8
Dussek = +7
Graun = +6
Hasse = +5
Clementi = +4
Boccherini = +3
Charpentier = +2
Couperin = +1

Stockhausen = -3


----------



## pjang23

pollux said:


> Well, Steiner composed great scores for films like _Gone with the Wind_, _The Charge of the Light Brigade_, _King Kong_ and _The Treasure of the Sierra Madre_. I don't know if he composed any opera, concerto or chamber music like Korngold did. It's the OP who should determine if he's valid for the purpose of this thread.


I guess I'm the de facto OP at this point. I think a dividing line is that the primary work of the composer needs to be in genres typically associated with classical music, so I'm inclined to say no.

10 Gibbons
9 Franck
8 Perotin
7 Part
6 Holst
5 Lassus
4 Ockeghem
3 Medtner
2 Hildegard
1 Glazunov
-3 Arnold

EDIT: Updated as of StevenOBrien's vote

Current Results: Reich, Part, Holst & Delius are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro - 290
86. Gershwin - 279
87. Corelli - 241
87. Wolf - 241
89. Dowland - 230
90. Smetana - 225
91. Hildegard - 223
91. Penderecki - 223
93. Arnold - 222
94. Couperin - 221
95. Rott - 217
96. Varèse - 213
97. Alfven - 206
98. Schnittke - 202
99. Walton - 187
100. Albeniz - 178
101. Hindemith - 177
102. Bax - 176
103. Schütz - 171
104. Franck - 169
105. Glazunov - 160
106. Dufay - 147
107. Boccherini - 140
108. Massenet - 137
109. Charpentier - 136
110. Spohr - 133
111. Vogelweide - 128
112. Stockhausen - 127
113. Boulez - 117
114. Offenbach - 116
115. Novak - 114
116. Takemitsu - 112
117. Perotin - 107
118. Szymanowski - 104
119. Ockeghem - 94
120. Poulenc - 93
121. Honegger - 91
121. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
123. Lutoslawski - 88
124. Brian - 87
125. Lassus - 85
126. Crumb - 83
127. Martinu - 82
128. Alkan - 80
128. Xenakis - 80
130. Graun - 79
131. Zelenka - 77
132. Alwyn - 75
133. Falla - 73
134. Medtner - 72
135. Cage - 68
135. Rodrigo - 68
137. Gabrieli - 67
138. Gombert - 65
139. Chausson - 61
140. Albinoni - 57
141. Enescu - 54
142. Hasse - 52
142. Piazzolla - 52
144. Leifs - 50
145. Paganini - 47
145. Schumann, Clara - 47
147. Bach, W.F. - 45
147. Lalo - 45
149. Clementi - 44
150. Tveitt - 43
151. Gorecki - 41
152. Berio - 40
152. Glinka - 40
154. Dussek - 38
155. Bernstein - 33
155. Kodály - 33
157. Cherubini - 32
157. Graupner - 32
157. Harbison - 32
157. Tippet - 32
161. Korngold - 30
161. Sorabji - 30
163. Granados - 28
164. Gounod - 26
164. Locatelli - 26
166. Pachelbel - 25
167. Frescobaldi - 24
168. Golijov - 23
168. MacDowell - 23
168. Pergolesi - 23
171. Barrios - 22
172. Berwald - 20
173. Carter - 19
174. Dukas - 18
175. Balakirev - 17
175. Khachaturian - 17
175. Milhaud - 17
175. Mompou - 17
175. Schuman, William - 17
175. Vierne - 17
181. Canteloube - 16
181. D'Indy - 16
181. Leonin - 16
181. Skalkottas - 16
185. Farrenc - 15
185. Henze - 15
185. Parry - 15
185. Weinberg - 15
189. Abel - 14
189. Gibbons - 14
189. Hartmann - 14
189. Rubinstein - 14
189. Wohlfahrt - 14
189. Zemlinsky - 14
189. Zimmerman - 14
196. Gubaidulina - 11
196. Harris - 11
196. Marcello - 11
199. Beach - 10
199. Bridge - 10
199. Hovhaness - 10
199. Landini - 10
199. Quantz - 10
199. Rudland - 10
205. Krommer - 9
205. Widor - 9
207. Allegri - 8
207. Ferneyhough - 8
207. Heinichen - 8
207. Nyman - 8
207. Pettersson - 8
207. Schreker - 8
213. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
213. Stamitz - 7
213. Wyschnegradsky - 7
216. Eberl - 6
216. Fux - 6
216. Ireland - 6
216. Meyerbeer - 6
220. Sor - 5
220. Torelli - 5
220. Veress - 5
220. Wieniawski - 5
224. Bloch - 4
224. Brouwer - 4
224. Danzi - 4
224. Krenek - 4
224. Mathieu - 4
224. Sarasate - 4
230. Da Milano - 2
230. Myaskovsky - 2
232. Czerny - 1
232. Holmboe - 1
232. Monti - 1
232. Ponce - 1
232. Strauss I, Johann - 1
232. Ysaÿe - 1
238. Bortkiewicz - -1
239. Ullmann - -6
240. Schobert - -25


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

If I'm not mistaken, pjang23's latest update at post #1373 above has not yet allowed for my latest votes at post #1372.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Corelli · 5
Graun, C.H. · 4
Albinoni · 3
Charpentier · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Roland Kaiser · -3


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Delius (In)
9 - Corelli
8 - Hindemith
7 - Poulenc
6 - Clementi
5 - Gershwin


----------



## pjang23

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> If I'm not mistaken, pjang23's latest update at post #1373 above has not yet allowed for my latest votes at post #1372.


Thanks for that. I've edited my post.


----------



## science

10 Gounod 
9 Gombert 
8 Kodaly 
7 Gabrieli 
6 Chausson
5 Zelenka 
4 Lassus
3 Boccherini 
2 Khachaturian 
1 Bortkiewicz


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Paganini
8 Gabrieli
7 Honegger
6 Gershwin
5 Lutoslawski
4 Hindemith
3 Schutz
2 Ockeghem
1 Couperin
-3 Scarlatti, A.


----------



## Rapide

Massenet 10
A. Scarlatti 9
Boulez 8
Farrenc 7
Charpentier 6

Stockhausen -3


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Falla
8. Charpentier
7. Couperin
6. Schutz
5. Hildegard
4. Schnittke
3. Brian
2. Takemitsu
1. Sanz


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Zelenka +9
3. Massenet +8
4. Corelli +7
5. Boccherini +6
6. Dufay +5
7. Alessandro Scarlatti +4 (He's now in regardless of Trout's repeated efforts to stall him)
8. Schütz +3
9. Couperin +2
10. Hildegard +1

Varese -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Alessandro Scarlatti is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin - 285
87. Corelli - 248
88. Wolf - 241
89. Couperin - 231
90. Dowland - 230
91. Hildegard - 229
92. Smetana - 225
93. Penderecki - 223
94. Arnold - 222
95. Varèse - 220
96. Rott - 217
97. Alfven - 206
97. Schnittke - 206
99. Albeniz - 188
100. Walton - 187
101. Schütz - 183
102. Hindemith - 181
103. Bax - 176
104. Franck - 169
105. Glazunov - 160
106. Massenet - 155
107. Dufay - 152
108. Charpentier - 150
109. Boccherini - 149
110. Spohr - 133
111. Vogelweide - 128
112. Offenbach - 126
113. Boulez - 125
114. Stockhausen - 124
115. Novak - 114
115. Takemitsu - 114
117. Perotin - 107
118. Szymanowski - 104
119. Honegger - 98
120. Ockeghem - 96
121. Lutoslawski - 93
121. Poulenc - 93
123. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
123. Zelenka - 91
125. Brian - 90
126. Lassus - 89
127. Crumb - 83
128. Falla - 82
128. Gabrieli - 82
128. Martinu - 82
131. Alkan - 80
131. Xenakis - 80
133. Graun - 79
134. Alwyn - 75
135. Gombert - 74
136. Medtner - 72
137. Cage - 68
137. Rodrigo - 68
139. Chausson - 67
140. Albinoni - 57
141. Paganini - 56
142. Enescu - 54
143. Hasse - 52
143. Piazzolla - 52
145. Leifs - 50
146. Schumann, Clara - 47
147. Bach, W.F. - 45
147. Lalo - 45
149. Clementi - 44
150. Tveitt - 43
151. Gorecki - 41
151. Kodály - 41
153. Berio - 40
153. Glinka - 40
155. Dussek - 38
156. Gounod - 36
157. Bernstein - 33
158. Cherubini - 32
158. Graupner - 32
158. Harbison - 32
158. Tippet - 32
162. Korngold - 30
162. Sorabji - 30
164. Granados - 28
165. Locatelli - 26
166. Pachelbel - 25
167. Frescobaldi - 24
168. Golijov - 23
168. MacDowell - 23
168. Pergolesi - 23
171. Barrios - 22
171. Farrenc - 22
173. Berwald - 20
174. Carter - 19
174. Khachaturian - 19
176. Dukas - 18
177. Balakirev - 17
177. Milhaud - 17
177. Mompou - 17
177. Schuman, William - 17
177. Vierne - 17
182. Canteloube - 16
182. D'Indy - 16
182. Leonin - 16
182. Skalkottas - 16
186. Henze - 15
186. Parry - 15
186. Weinberg - 15
189. Abel - 14
189. Gibbons - 14
189. Hartmann - 14
189. Rubinstein - 14
189. Wohlfahrt - 14
189. Zemlinsky - 14
189. Zimmerman - 14
196. Gubaidulina - 11
196. Harris - 11
196. Marcello - 11
199. Beach - 10
199. Bridge - 10
199. Hovhaness - 10
199. Landini - 10
199. Quantz - 10
199. Rudland - 10
205. Krommer - 9
205. Widor - 9
207. Allegri - 8
207. Ferneyhough - 8
207. Heinichen - 8
207. Nyman - 8
207. Pettersson - 8
207. Schreker - 8
213. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
213. Stamitz - 7
213. Wyschnegradsky - 7
216. Eberl - 6
216. Fux - 6
216. Ireland - 6
216. Meyerbeer - 6
220. Sor - 5
220. Torelli - 5
220. Veress - 5
220. Wieniawski - 5
224. Bloch - 4
224. Brouwer - 4
224. Danzi - 4
224. Krenek - 4
224. Mathieu - 4
224. Sarasate - 4
230. Da Milano - 2
230. Myaskovsky - 2
232. Czerny - 1
232. Holmboe - 1
232. Monti - 1
232. Ponce - 1
232. Sanz - 1
232. Strauss I, Johann - 1
232. Ysaÿe - 1
239. Ullmann - -6
240. Schobert - -25


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Dowland
8	Couperin

Time to mention some first-rate composers who are not in the list:

7	Sylvius Leopold Weiss (nearly all of his works for lute are masterpieces)
6	André Campra (his _Requiem _is one of the most moving works of the Baroque era)
5	Francesco Cavalli (he's only one step below Monteverdi)
4	Francisco Guerrero (he's only one step below Victoria)
3	Cristóbal de Morales (id.)
2	Marin Marais (what a marvelous instrument, the viola da gamba!)
1	Andrea Gabrieli (in fact, I'm not sure whether the one that appears in the list is Giovanni or Andrea.  Both are equally great)

-3 Schnittke


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

pollux said:


> 7	Sylvius Leopold Weiss (nearly all of his works for lute are masterpieces)


My oh my! How could I have missed Weiss. I have been collecting every single Naxos release on the complete lute suite of Weiss. These large scale lute suites are on par with the few by JS Bach. Volume 11 was released recently played by Robert Barto. These suites as a collection are unique in Baroque music, the majority of each are constructed on a gigantic scale.


----------



## science

pollux said:


> Andrea Gabrieli (in fact, I'm not sure whether the one that appears in the list is Giovanni or Andrea.  Both are equally great)


Both are not equally famous so I bet you can guess. Anyway, nice additions.


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax	+	10
Walton	+	9
Tippet	+	8
Korngold	+	7
Schuman, William	+	6
Franck	+	5
Harris	+	4
Clementi	+	3
Spohr	+	2
Schumann, Clara	+	1

Varèse	-	3


----------



## Orpheus

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> My oh my! How could I have missed Weiss. I have been collecting every single Naxos release on the complete lute suite of Weiss. These large scale lute suites are on par with the few by JS Bach. Volume 11 was released recently played by Robert Barto. These suites as a collection are unique in Baroque music, the majority of each are constructed on a gigantic scale.


I've managed to miss him too, not only on this thread but in my collection. I've heard quite a good quantity of Renaissance lute but somehow managed to overlook the Baroque stuff. It's nice to see the recommendations and votes that come up in this thread, and be unexpectedly led to new music that's worth investigating. I've marked down both Weiss and Alessandro Scarlatti as people to check out in future as a result of recent comments on this thread. 

10 Dowland
9 Dufay
8 Szymanowski
7 Brian
6 Franck
5 Barrios
4 Gibbons
3 Chausson
2 Sor
1 Hildegard

-3 Gershwin


----------



## Very Senior Member

A few more:


Arensky
Bantock
Boulanger
Crusell
Dohnanyi
Dutilleux
Field
Finzi
Ginastera
Godowsky
Granados
Kodaly
Liadov
Locatelli
Moeran
Piston
Rebel
Reger
Reinecke
Rosetti
Soler
Taneyev
Tartini
Torelli
Vieuxtemps
Warlock
Wilbye


----------



## pollux

Are you referring to John Wylbie? Oh! Were it only for the sublime madrigal _Draw on sweet night_, he deserves a place in the history of music:


----------



## Guest

pjang23 said:


> I guess I'm the de facto OP at this point. I think a dividing line is that the primary work of the composer needs to be in genres typically associated with classical music, so I'm inclined to say no.


...and the definition of classical music is? I'm sure this has already been debated, so I'm happy to be directed to a previous thread.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I guess I'm the de facto OP at this point. I think a dividing line is that the primary work of the composer needs to be in genres typically associated with classical music, so I'm inclined to say no.

Well that's good. That eliminates Varese, Xenakis, and Stockhausen.


----------



## Very Senior Member

pollux said:


> Are you referring to John Wylbie? Oh! Were it only for the sublime madrigal _Draw on sweet night_, he deserves a place in the history of music:


Aye, that be him, John Wilbye 1574-1638, English Madrigalist.

And that be the song, _Draw on, sweet night_, very beautiful.

My version by Cambridge Singers, conducted by John Rutter, Collegium COLCD 105.


----------



## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I guess I'm the de facto OP at this point. I think a dividing line is that the primary work of the composer needs to be in genres typically associated with classical music, so I'm inclined to say no.
> 
> Well that's good. That eliminates Varese, Xenakis, and Stockhausen.


uh nope. Varese's primary output was chamber music. He only had one piece that was an entirely electronic composition.


----------



## BurningDesire

pjang23 said:


> I guess I'm the de facto OP at this point. I think a dividing line is that the primary work of the composer needs to be in genres typically associated with classical music, so I'm inclined to say no.


If that is the rule, then this thread is dead to me without even requiring my real contribution to it, and this list is invalid in my eyes. Its the 50 greatest COMPOSERS, not 50 greatest COMPOSERS OF OUR AWKWARDLY DEFINED WESTERN CLASSICAL TRADITION, sir.


----------



## pollux

Personally, I have no problem with this thread being re-entitled "the 50 greatest COMPOSERS OF OUR AWKWARDLY DEFINED WESTERN CLASSICAL TRADITION".


----------



## science

BurningDesire said:


> If that is the rule, then this thread is dead to me without even requiring my real contribution to it, and this list is invalid in my eyes. Its the 50 greatest COMPOSERS, not 50 greatest COMPOSERS OF OUR AWKWARDLY DEFINED WESTERN CLASSICAL TRADITION, sir.


Well, let's take a chill pill here. pjang23's doing a lot of work tallying up all these votes, so he's earned the right to his opinion.

What you might do is make another thread, as HaprischordConcerto did, to discuss the composers that you would like to recognize but will get omitted from this one.


----------



## Very Senior Member

MacLeod said:


> ...and the definition of classical music is? I'm sure this has already been debated, so I'm happy to be directed to a previous thread.


Classical music has followed certain forms down the ages, all essentially involving the weaving together of motifs and themes in different ways, e.g. sonata form or rondo form etc. As a rule, film music, and even the best of it, doesn't fit any of the classical forms, and hence can rarely be said to be classical music.

However, some film music could be classical music, and no doubt some of it is, e.g. Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, and Rachmaninoff's PC 2 (theme music in the film "Brief Encounter"). This doesn't mean that all good quality film music is necessarily classical music, even though some of it may superficially sound very grand and Wagnerian in tone.

Some film music composers, e.g. Korngold, wrote classical music as normally conceived. Hence such composers can be included. Many good quality film music composers, e.g. Max Steiner, didn't write classical music and hence should be excluded. I therefore agree with pjang23's decision.


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> Classical music has followed certain forms down the ages, all essentially involving the weaving together of motifs and themes in different ways, e.g. sonata form or rondo form etc. As a rule, film music, and even the best of it, doesn't fit any of the classical forms, and hence can rarely be said to be classical music.
> 
> However, some film music could be classical music, and no doubt some of it is, e.g. Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, and Rachmaninoff's PC 2 (theme music in the film "Brief Encounter"). This doesn't mean that all good quality film music is necessarily classical music, even though some of it may superficially sound very grand and Wagnerian in tone.
> 
> Some film music composers, e.g. Korngold, wrote classical music as normally conceived. Hence such composers can be included. Many good quality film music composers, e.g. Max Steiner, didn't write classical music and hence should be excluded. I therefore agree with pjang23's decision.


Guess we can't really include any composers pre-Baroque huh? And we also need to be pretty skeptical of most of the 20th Century, even Debussy. Because adherence to vague forms is the prime qualifier for this musical tradition, right? Obviously a centuries-old musical tradition couldn't possibly evolve to include diverse and completely new and different forms, its all sonatas and rondos.


----------



## BurningDesire

science said:


> Well, let's take a chill pill here. pjang23's doing a lot of work tallying up all these votes, so he's earned the right to his opinion.
> 
> What you might do is make another thread, as HaprischordConcerto did, to discuss the composers that you would like to recognize but will get omitted from this one.


I'm sorry if I came off as overly-emotional ^^; I know he has a right to his opinion, but I think if he is restricting what composers are allowed on the list, maybe he should make that clear in the title of this thread.


----------



## science

I personally find it very difficult to classify film music.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith
9.	Corelli
8.	Franck
7.	Walton
6.	Couperin
5.	Chausson
4.	Glazunov
3.	Boccherini
2.	Albinoni
1.	Arnold


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> Guess we can't really include any composers pre-Baroque huh? And we also need to be pretty skeptical of most of the 20th Century, even Debussy. Because adherence to vague forms is the prime qualifier for this musical tradition, right? Obviously a centuries-old musical tradition couldn't possibly evolve to include diverse and completely new and different forms, its all sonatas and rondos.


No I wasn't saying that all classical music is distinguished by use of sonata or rondo form. Clearly, I gave those as examples.

Anyway, let me try to clarify what you're saying. Are you suggesting that all film music can be treated as classical music? If not, where do you draw the line between film music that is classical and film music that is not classical? Can you provide a clear cut definitional distinction?

I would appreciate a few examples of film music that you consider to be classical as written by composers who are not normally considered to be classical composers, i.e. those who wrote only music for film. And could you clarify what is it about such music that make it classical as opposed to non-classical?


----------



## Very Senior Member

pollux said:


> Personally, I have no problem with this thread being re-entitled "the 50 greatest COMPOSERS OF OUR AWKWARDLY DEFINED WESTERN CLASSICAL TRADITION".


Except perhaps that the use of "50" looks a bit lame. People will think we can't count.


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> No I wasn't saying that all classical music is distinguished by use of sonata or rondo form. Clearly, I gave those as examples.
> 
> Anyway, let me try to clarify what you're saying. Are you suggesting that all film music can be treated as classical music? If not, where do you draw the line between film music that is classical and film music that is not classical? Can you provide a clear cut definitional distinction?
> 
> I would appreciate a few examples of film music that you consider to be classical as written by composers who are not normally considered to be classical composers, i.e. those who wrote only music for film. And could you clarify what is it about such music that make it classical as opposed to non-classical?


You didn't bother answering my argument. I was basically saying that "classical music" is so broad and diverse that you can't really segregate music written by composers who studied or were trained in that tradition based on things like form of the music that they write, or even the instrumentation or stylistic elements of the composers art. By your logic any composer who's work deviates heavily from traditional forms ceases to be part of this tradition, and I find that silly. Can YOU provide a clear-cut defined distinction?


----------



## crmoorhead

BurningDesire said:


> You didn't bother answering my argument. I was basically saying that "classical music" is so broad and diverse that you can't really segregate music written by composers who studied or were trained in that tradition based on things like form of the music that they write, or even the instrumentation or stylistic elements of the composers art. By your logic any composer who's work deviates heavily from traditional forms ceases to be part of this tradition, and I find that silly. Can YOU provide a clear-cut defined distinction?


Goodness me, I don't think its worth arguing about. IMO, people should vote for who they want, but understand that votes will only get somewhere if there is a consensus. There are currently 240 composers on the list but, in all likelihood, we will probably stop counting after so long. Composers that don't reach the required quote will be ignored because no consensus has been made. That's a good system - a fair system. At the end of the day, we could keep adding names indefinitely, so we have to draw the line somewhere. I suggest also that this can't be far away. It's not like the classical music project vote where we have tens of thousands of works from which to recommend. I can't see this list getting much longer and still meaning anything.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Gershwin
9 Stockhausen
8 Xenakis
7 Kodaly
6 Lalo
5 Varese

-3 Penderecki


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> You didn't bother answering my argument. I was basically saying that "classical music" is so broad and diverse that you can't really segregate music written by composers who studied or were trained in that tradition based on things like form of the music that they write, or even the instrumentation or stylistic elements of the composers art. By your logic any composer who's work deviates heavily from traditional forms ceases to be part of this tradition, and I find that silly. Can YOU provide a clear-cut defined distinction?


I answered your question by asserting that it is possible to make such a distinction based on adherence or otherwise to musical forms that have traditionally been accepted down the ages as belonging to classical. For the most part, film music is outwith this tradition as it doesn't typically involve an attempt to develop themes and motifs in any way.

May I therefore now revert to my question to you: which type of film music do you consider to be classical and which not? Can you provide a few examples of what you consider to be classical music that was written for a film by a composer who has only ever written film music?

If you can't answer the latter simple questions, then I can only assume that you have no answers.


----------



## Very Senior Member

crmoorhead said:


> Goodness me, I don't think its worth arguing about. IMO, people should vote for who they want, but understand that votes will only get somewhere if there is a consensus. There are currently 240 composers on the list but, in all likelihood, we will probably stop counting after so long and composers that don't reach the required quote should be ignored because no consensus had been made. That's a good system, a fair system, because, at the end of the day, we could keep adding names indefinitely and we would have to draw the line somewhere. I suggest also that this can't be far away. It's not like the classical music vote where we have tens of thousands of works from which to recommend. I can't see this list getting much longer and still meaning anything.


Yes but that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not the film composer Max Steiner may be added to the list, as requested by new member MacLeod. Member pjang23 said no because he felt that this composer was not a classical composer. I am trying to support that decision. But member Burningdesire takes a different view. That's what we're discussing now. Apart from that, I see no need to restrict the number of new composers to the list. The very low ones will probably finish up as "honourable mentons".


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> I answered your question by asserting that it is possible to make such a distinction based on adherence or otherwise to musical forms that have traditionally been accepted down the ages as belonging to classical. For the most part, film music is outwith this tradition as it doesn't typically involve an attempt to develop themes and motifs in any way.
> 
> May I therefore now revert to my question to you: which type of film music do you consider to be classical and which not? Can you provide a few examples of what you consider to be classical music that was written for a film by a composer who has only ever written film music?
> 
> If you can't answer the latter simple questions, then I can only assume that you have no answers.


I think its a little more complicated than that, whether a film score is or isn't classical music. I still say your distinction is false. Not all classical music is about developing themes or motifs. There are scores that make heavy use of themes in clever ways, such as the great scores of Ennio Morricone and Danny Elfman. Plenty of classical music really isn't about developing themes. You may have a theme introduced, and that's it. It just occurs a couple times, but we don't get elaborations on that idea. What about plainchant and medieval and rennaissance music? I don't think I've ever heard a piece from those periods thats concerned with developing themes. This is a very narrow-minded view of what a classical composition can be. If we're talking only of a particular section of the tradition, such as the Classical period, then this would be acceptable criteria, but since we're talking about the larger tradition that spans from plainchant to Frank Zappa, this doesn't work. Do you understand what I'm saying?


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> I think its a little more complicated than that, whether a film score is or isn't classical music. I still say your distinction is false. Not all classical music is about developing themes or motifs. There are scores that make heavy use of themes in clever ways, such as the great scores of Ennio Morricone and Danny Elfman. Plenty of classical music really isn't about developing themes. You may have a theme introduced, and that's it. It just occurs a couple times, but we don't get elaborations on that idea. What about plainchant and medieval and rennaissance music? I don't think I've ever heard a piece from those periods thats concerned with developing themes. This is a very narrow-minded view of what a classical composition can be. If we're talking only of a particular section of the tradition, such as the Classical period, then this would be acceptable criteria, but since we're talking about the larger tradition that spans from plainchant to Frank Zappa, this doesn't work. Do you understand what I'm saying?


I don't accept that it's a narrow interpretation, as you allege. If you look up this topic in various reference sources you'll find that what I said is along the right lines.

I'm no expert on Gregorian Chant but I'm happy to accept it as classical music, on my understanding of the term, because it does actually change subtley along the way, and it's not just some single theme constantly repeated with no development at all.

I'm not sure that I accept Frank Zappa as a Classical composer. It seems to me that the only people who regard him as such are only those who like his non-classical music. I don't know anyone who likes only his so-called classical music.

Again, may I request that you could provide an example or two of film music that you consider should be considered to be classical. I'm not going to criticise it. In fact I'm happy to leave things with request, and let others chip in as they see fit.

Thanks for the discussion.


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> I don't accept that it's a narrow interpretation, as you allege. If you look up this topic in various reference sources you'll find that what I said is along the right lines.
> 
> I'm no expert on Gregorian Chant but I'm happy to accept it as classical music, on my understanding of the term, because it does actually change subtley along the way, and it's not just some single theme constantly repeated with no development at all.
> 
> I'm not sure that I accept Frank Zappa as a Classical composer. It seems to me that the only people who regard him as such are only those who like his non-classical music. I don't know anyone who likes only his so-called classical music.
> 
> Again, may I request that you could provide an example or two of film music that you consider should be considered to be classical. I'm not going to criticise it. In fact I'm happy to leave things with request, and let others chip in as they see fit.
> 
> Thanks for the discussion.


The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, score by Ennio Morricone, The Nightmare Before Christmas, score by Danny Elfman, The Legend of 1900, score by Ennio Morricone, Planet of the Apes, score by Jerry Goldsmith.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Penderecki - 10
Gershwin - 9
Crumb - 8
Tveitt - 7
Takemitsu - 6
Poulenc - 5
Brian - 4
Schnittke - 3
Langgaard - 2
Cage - 1


----------



## BurningDesire

Alright, here's my input :3 Some composers who deserve recognition for their great input into the magnificent art of music.

10 - Frank Zappa
9 - Charles Ives
8 - Ludwig van Beethoven
7 - Yuki Kajiura
6 - Bjork 
5 - Nobuo Uematsu
4 - John Cage
3 - Mike Oldfield
2 - Tekla Badarczewska
1 - Antonio Salieri

- 3 to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Support great women composers, and give obscure composers a chance, and don't hastily judge a composer's output by your prejudices of what classical music _should_ be.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

BurningDesire said:


> 2 - Tekla Badarczewska
> - 3 to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> 
> Support great women composers, and give obscure composers a chance, and don't hastily judge a composer's output by your prejudices of what classical music _should_ be.


On what basis is Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska a greater composer than Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart other than your personal preference which you are perfectly entitled to, and or the basis of sexism?


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Björk?! I'm laughing so hard that all my false teeth fell out.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Arcangelo Corelli = +10
Sylvius Leopold Weiss = +9
Ferdinand Ries = +8
Louis Spohr = +7
Jules Massenet = +6
François Couperin = +5
Luigi Boccherini = +4
Jan Ladislav Dussek = +3
Carl Heinrich Graun = +2
Johann Friedrich Fasch = +1

Edgard Varèse = -3


----------



## BurningDesire

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> On what basis is Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska a greater composer than Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart other than your personal preference which you are perfectly entitled to, and or the basis of sexism?


Honestly, I wouldn't call her a greater composer than him, but I like what I've heard by her, and I kinda wanted to level the playing field, since many feel the need to disparage her work as trite and worthless, and I see it as having worth.  I probably should have put her at 1 point and Salieri up at 2.

Also, Bjork is an extremely imaginative composer, and a fantastic musician. Have you even listened to her work?


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Corelli · 5
Graun, C.H. · 4
Albinoni · 3
Charpentier · 2
Takemitsu · 1


Florian Silbereisen · -3


----------



## pollux

As HC looks for his teeth, may I suggest to give up arguing? Sure, the discussion is interesting, but this is not the place for it! BurningDesire, start another thread if you want. Rest assured that many other TCers would be interested.


----------



## BurningDesire

pollux said:


> As HC looks for his teeth, may I suggest to give up arguing? Sure, the discussion is interesting, but this is not the place for it! BurningDesire, start another thread if you want. Rest assured that many other TCers would be interested.


Alrighty. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Please do share with us in your opinion what are amongst the finest examples of Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska and Björk. A few clips of youtube might help. The onerous is on you, who is promoting Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska and Björk, to help us come to light.


----------



## pjang23

10 Leonin
9 Perotin
8 Gibbons
7 Lassus
6 Franck
5 Dufay
4 Clementi
3 Corelli
2 Zelenka
1 Alkan
-3 Alfven

Current Results: Gershwin is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli - 270
88. Couperin - 250
89. Dowland - 249
90. Wolf - 241
91. Hildegard - 230
91. Penderecki - 230
93. Smetana - 225
94. Arnold - 223
95. Varèse - 219
96. Rott - 217
97. Schnittke - 206
98. Alfven - 203
98. Walton - 203
100. Franck - 194
101. Schütz - 193
102. Hindemith - 191
103. Albeniz - 188
104. Bax - 186
105. Dufay - 166
106. Glazunov - 164
107. Massenet - 161
108. Boccherini - 156
109. Charpentier - 150
110. Spohr - 142
111. Stockhausen - 133
112. Vogelweide - 128
113. Offenbach - 126
114. Boulez - 125
115. Takemitsu - 120
116. Perotin - 116
117. Novak - 114
118. Szymanowski - 112
119. Brian - 101
120. Honegger - 98
120. Poulenc - 98
122. Lassus - 96
122. Ockeghem - 96
124. Lutoslawski - 93
124. Zelenka - 93
126. Crumb - 91
126. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
128. Xenakis - 88
129. Falla - 82
129. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
129. Martinu - 82
132. Alkan - 81
132. Graun - 81
134. Alwyn - 75
134. Chausson - 75
136. Gombert - 74
137. Medtner - 72
138. Cage - 69
139. Rodrigo - 68
140. Albinoni - 59
141. Paganini - 56
142. Enescu - 54
143. Hasse - 52
143. Piazzolla - 52
145. Clementi - 51
145. Lalo - 51
147. Leifs - 50
147. Tveitt - 50
149. Kodály - 48
149. Schumann, Clara - 48
151. Bach, W.F. - 45
152. Dussek - 41
152. Gorecki - 41
154. Berio - 40
154. Glinka - 40
154. Tippet - 40
157. Korngold - 37
158. Gounod - 36
159. Bernstein - 33
160. Cherubini - 32
160. Graupner - 32
160. Harbison - 32
163. Sorabji - 30
164. Granados - 28
165. Barrios - 27
166. Gibbons - 26
166. Leonin - 26
166. Locatelli - 26
169. Pachelbel - 25
170. Frescobaldi - 24
171. Golijov - 23
171. MacDowell - 23
171. Pergolesi - 23
171. Schuman, William - 23
175. Farrenc - 22
176. Berwald - 20
177. Carter - 19
177. Khachaturian - 19
179. Dukas - 18
180. Balakirev - 17
180. Milhaud - 17
180. Mompou - 17
180. Vierne - 17
184. Canteloube - 16
184. D'Indy - 16
184. Skalkottas - 16
184. Weiss - 16
188. Harris - 15
188. Henze - 15
188. Parry - 15
188. Weinberg - 15
192. Abel - 14
192. Hartmann - 14
192. Rubinstein - 14
192. Wohlfahrt - 14
192. Zemlinsky - 14
192. Zimmerman - 14
198. Gubaidulina - 11
198. Marcello - 11
200. Beach - 10
200. Bridge - 10
200. Hovhaness - 10
200. Landini - 10
200. Quantz - 10
200. Rudland - 10
206. Krommer - 9
206. Widor - 9
208. Allegri - 8
208. Ferneyhough - 8
208. Heinichen - 8
208. Nyman - 8
208. Pettersson - 8
208. Ries - 8
208. Schreker - 8
215. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
215. Sor - 7
215. Stamitz - 7
215. Wyschnegradsky - 7
219. Campra - 6
219. Eberl - 6
219. Fux - 6
219. Ireland - 6
219. Meyerbeer - 6
224. Cavalli - 5
224. Torelli - 5
224. Veress - 5
224. Wieniawski - 5
228. Bloch - 4
228. Brouwer - 4
228. Danzi - 4
228. Guerrero - 4
228. Krenek - 4
228. Mathieu - 4
228. Sarasate - 4
235. De Morales - 3
236. Da Milano - 2
236. Langgaard - 2
236. Marais - 2
236. Myaskovsky - 2
240. Czerny - 1
240. Fasch - 1
240. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
240. Holmboe - 1
240. Monti - 1
240. Ponce - 1
240. Sanz - 1
240. Strauss I, Johann - 1
240. Ysaÿe - 1
249. Ullmann - -6
250. Schobert - -25


----------



## pjang23

BurningDesire said:


> If that is the rule, then this thread is dead to me without even requiring my real contribution to it, and this list is invalid in my eyes. Its the 50 greatest COMPOSERS, not 50 greatest COMPOSERS OF OUR AWKWARDLY DEFINED WESTERN CLASSICAL TRADITION, sir.





BurningDesire said:


> I'm sorry if I came off as overly-emotional ^^; I know he has a right to his opinion, but I think if he is restricting what composers are allowed on the list, maybe he should make that clear in the title of this thread.


Well, this is a classical music discussion forum, so it's not much of a stretch to know we are concerned with classical composers, and not all composers. And by the way, I didn't make this thread (and I consider it more of a reflection of our tastes than a "greatest" list for that matter). Just salvaging what we have to see how it plays out.



BurningDesire said:


> You didn't bother answering my argument. I was basically saying that "classical music" is so broad and diverse that you can't really segregate music written by composers who studied or were trained in that tradition based on things like form of the music that they write, or even the instrumentation or stylistic elements of the composers art. By your logic any composer who's work deviates heavily from traditional forms ceases to be part of this tradition, and I find that silly. Can YOU provide a clear-cut defined distinction?





BurningDesire said:


> I think its a little more complicated than that, whether a film score is or isn't classical music. I still say your distinction is false. Not all classical music is about developing themes or motifs. There are scores that make heavy use of themes in clever ways, such as the great scores of Ennio Morricone and Danny Elfman. Plenty of classical music really isn't about developing themes. You may have a theme introduced, and that's it. It just occurs a couple times, but we don't get elaborations on that idea. What about plainchant and medieval and rennaissance music? I don't think I've ever heard a piece from those periods thats concerned with developing themes. This is a very narrow-minded view of what a classical composition can be. If we're talking only of a particular section of the tradition, such as the Classical period, then this would be acceptable criteria, but since we're talking about the larger tradition that spans from plainchant to Frank Zappa, this doesn't work. Do you understand what I'm saying?





Very Senior Member said:


> I don't accept that it's a narrow interpretation, as you allege. If you look up this topic in various reference sources you'll find that what I said is along the right lines.
> 
> I'm no expert on Gregorian Chant but I'm happy to accept it as classical music, on my understanding of the term, because it does actually change subtley along the way, and it's not just some single theme constantly repeated with no development at all.
> 
> I'm not sure that I accept Frank Zappa as a Classical composer. It seems to me that the only people who regard him as such are only those who like his non-classical music. I don't know anyone who likes only his so-called classical music.
> 
> Again, may I request that you could provide an example or two of film music that you consider should be considered to be classical. I'm not going to criticise it. In fact I'm happy to leave things with request, and let others chip in as they see fit.
> 
> Thanks for the discussion.


For pre-20th century music, the simple criterion separating classical from folk is that classical is fully notated (hence Gregorian chant is included). The score is the final product, and the music is mainly written to be performed by other musicians whereas in popular music the original performance & recording are the final product and the music is tied to the original performer; and in film music or video game music, the music is written to be a component of another artistic medium rather than for musical performances.


----------



## BurningDesire

pjang23 said:


> For pre-20th century music, the simple criterion separating classical from folk is that classical is fully notated (hence Gregorian chant is included). The score is the final product, and the music is mainly written to be performed by other musicians whereas in popular music the original performance & recording are the final product and the music is tied to the original performer; and in film music or video game music, the music is written to be a component of another artistic medium rather than for musical performances.


I am willing to accept your definitions there (mostly), except that wouldn't we need to exclude all opera/operettas and ballets, as well as incidental music for plays on a similar basis to the exclusion of film and video game music?

And where do pieces such as musique concrete compositions fit into all of this? What about jazz?


----------



## science

10 Arensky 
9 Reger 
8 Hovhaness
7 Henze
6 Milhaud
5 Khachaturian 
4 Frescobaldi
3 Cherubini 
2 Granados
1 Berstein


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Certainly we are treading into murky waters if we attempt to define "classical music". This, it would probably be generall agreed upon, is classical music:






The selection, after all, was composed as part of an opera.

But then is this also "classical music"?






Why or why not? Personally, as much as I admire Renée Fleming, I find this version far greater?

The reality is that "classical music" is not a term that denotes a single style, genre, or tradition. I defy anyone to offer up a satisfactory definition that includes all that "classical music" is... Byzantine Chant, Sephardic Dances, Gregorian Chant, Chanson, Madrigals, Motets, Masses, Secular and Sacred Cantatas, Sonatas, Opera, Symphonies, Concerti Grossi, String Quartets, Operettas, Lieder, Melodies, Romances, Oratorios, Fugues, Ballets, Incidental Music... on through stuff like this:






... and yet excludes Bernard Herman... or Duke Ellington... or this:






The term "classical music" pretty much dates from from the period in which various forms of popular music began to grow in influence and accessibility as a result of various recording technologies. The term suggested that "classical music" was a style of music (which it is not) as well as suggesting that it represents the highest or finest music. Within the visual arts the terms "masterpiece" or "great art" are in no way limited only to the "old masters" but include photography, film, television, the finest illustrators and commercial artists (whether we are speaking of the prints of the Ukiyo-e artists of Japan, the posters of Toulouse-Latrec and Alphonse Mucha, or the comic book art or R. Crumb), etc... The same is true of literature. Literary critics are in no way adverse to including childrens' books among what are deemed "literature" or "classic books": Lewis Carroll, Edward Lear, etc... or comic books, or any number of other genre.

If "classical music" is indeed a style, then Xenakis, Stockhausen, and other avant garde composers should be no less excluded from this than Bernard Hermann or John Williams. If it is merely a term denoting the "classic" or "best" music of all time, then surely this should include the best of all musical forms... be it film music, jazz, blues, pop, etc...


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

For pre-20th century music, the simple criterion separating classical from folk is that classical is fully notated (hence Gregorian chant is included). The score is the final product...

Already we have some problems. You've ignored the fact that many Medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque scores were not the final words on how the work was to be performed. Quite often there was much left open to improvisation. This, of course is equally true of a great deal of Modern "classical music". As for the notion that the score was the final product... really? Do you honestly believe that Mozart imagined his score for Don Giovanni and not the performance of the opera to be the final "product"? And Bach... whose scores were often dictated in part by the access he had to soloists and singers... he thought of his scores and not the performance of his work as the final product?

...the music is mainly written to be performed by other musicians whereas in popular music the original performance & recording are the final product and the music is tied to the original performer...


























Hmmmm...?

...and in film music or video game music, the music is written to be a component of another artistic medium rather than for musical performances.

So that would also eliminate Tchaikovsky's and Stravinsky's ballets, Beethoven's and Schubert's incidental music for plays, etc...

Keep trying.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...and in film music or video game music, the music is written to be a component of another artistic medium rather than for musical performances.
> 
> So that would also eliminate Tchaikovsky's and Stravinsky's ballets, Beethoven's and Schubert's incidental music for plays, etc...
> 
> Keep trying.




Even if anyone keeps trying, there will be an argument against it, so we can never establish a "correct" definition. It's a matter of someone showing you a piece, and you deciding whether it's classical or not. It's arbitrary and subjective.


----------



## crmoorhead

@Stlukesguildohio

I think classical music is a matter of ancestry. Jazz, blues, pop etc evolved from folk music independently of the orchestral/chamber tradition. I don't consider songs in general to be 'classical' unless the emphasis is on technique or musical theory, even when written by 'classical' composers. In short, classical is more academic than populist. Another way of looking at it (less favourably) is that one evolved from the upper classes while the other emerged from the common people. It might be an ugly truth, but that is how we got to the recognisable genre of 'classical' as opposed to 'pop'. In the current era, it is my opinion that the mantle has been passed onto the intellectual aristoctracy rather than the hereditary type. Some people automatically reject that idea, but I think that it is still true. All is NOT equal in music and the litmus test often falls down to what is deemed 'intellectual'.

Personally, I think that classical in terms of modern music is anything that doesn't have lyrics and which is not avant guard. Film music usually qualifies, IMO. After all, Phillip Glass has composed many film soundtracks. Whether it is GOOD music is entirely a different question, but film composers should indeed qualify and be included in this list. At the end of the day, however, this list works on consensus. The question several people have posed is whether or not composers should be included if they only have the vast majorityof their works in popular music. I would say that, if we did decide to eliminate on those grounds, then it is hard to imagine Offenbach being allowed either.

On another note, Ella Fitzgerald's voice is sublime. The version of 'Summertime' you posted is one of my all time favourites and never fails to give me goosebumps. Wonderful stuff.  But let's not forget the difference between songwriter and composer. The opera Porgy and Bess is one traditon while Ella and Louis ar another. One traditon can adopt parts of the other, but the distinction is that changes have to be made to make that crossover. They don't sound the same and the reason for the second version sounding better is simply because Gershwin wasn't used to writing in the operatic tradition or for operatic voices. That's why his jazz version 'works' a lot better.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Even if anyone keeps trying, there will be an argument against it, so we can never establish a "correct" definition. It's a matter of someone showing you a piece, and you deciding whether it's classical or not. It's arbitrary and subjective.

Bingo!


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I think classical music is a matter of ancestry. Jazz, blues, pop etc evolved from folk music independently of the orchestral/chamber tradition. I don't consider songs in general to be 'classical' unless the emphasis is on technique or musical theory, even when written by 'classical' composers.

So lieder, chanson, melodies, etc... of Faure, Schumann, Schubert, Wolf, etc... are not "classical music"? 

In short, classical is more academic than populist.

One might argue that opera, ballet, and other forms were certainly "populist"... albeit the audience was limited to the wealthy "elite".

Another way of looking at it (less favourably) is that one evolved from the upper classes while the other emerged from the common people.

Ultimately, this has been the sole means of differentiating "classical music" from popular, folk, etc... The classical composers worked for a wealthy elite and were expected to be able to read/write music. The written score was the means of instructing musicians as to what to play as well as a means of preservation of the music... although preservation of music was not considered of great importance. The aristocratic audience of Beethoven's time were not the least bit interested in listening to baroque or Renaissance music. Folk musicians/composers lacked the ability to preserve what they had created... and so most folk music has been lost to us.

The situation changed with the advent of sound recording. Suddenly a composer who would have been seen as a "folk musician" earlier has the ability to not only preserve his or her music, but also this music becomes widely accessible through these recordings... in the form of records, film and TV performances, and radio. The term "classical music" becomes a means of suggesting that the music the "elite" value is "classic" or "great" as opposed to the music embraced by the ignorant masses.

...it is my opinion that the mantle has been passed onto the intellectual aristoctracy rather than the hereditary type.

This may be true... but then you cannot assume that the intellectual aristocracy all embrace that which you define as traditional "classical music". Nor can you assume that those who do embrace "classical music" (or some parts thereof) do not also embrace a good deal of music that you might term "populist" or "popular".

All is NOT equal in music...

Certainly. And I don't think anyone would suggest that the average, mediocre film score or jazz performance or pop song be counted among "classical music". On the other hand it seems obvious that all music is not equal within the realm of what is traditionally acknowledged as "classical music". Are we to assume that every third rate Baroque or Romantic orchestral work is equal or greater than the standards penned and/or performed by Gershwin, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra, etc...? It would seem that one measure of the "classic" in any art form, is the fact that it survives and continues to resonate with an educated audience well after its time. By this measure, how certain are we that Xenakis or Stockhausen or Glass will outlive Duke Ellington, or _Somewhere Over the Rainbow_ or _Norwegian Wood_?

I note that you suggest "classical music" involves a question of ancestry. Surely one could make a strong argument suggesting that a standard such as _Somewhere Over the Rainbow_ or _The Blues in the Night_ or a jazz album such as _Kind of Blue_ or a film score such as Bernard Herman's _Vertigo_ owes more to the tradition of classical music than a lot of work by Stockhausen, Xenakis, etc...


----------



## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio, you are officially my favorite member of this forum :3 You said it magnificently! Though I disagree with the asserstions that pop music and film scores are more linked to classical music ancestry than Stockhausen, Xenakis, etc. I think they are all connected to that ancestry.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Hildegard +9
3. Corelli +8
4. Dufay +7
5. Schütz +6
6. Korngold +5
7. Takemitsu +4
8. Massenet +3
9. Boccherini +2
10. Daniel Catan +1

Varese -3


----------



## Rapide

Massenet 10
Rubinstein 9
Holmboe 8
Boulez 7
Korngold 6
Corelli 5

Stockhausen -3


----------



## science

Not only is it impossible to define the genres perfectly, but if it were, no sooner than we published our results musicians would begin to violate our definitions, intentionally and rightfully. I know some people take these distinctions and definitions so seriously, but I cannot. The labels ought to serve the music, not the music the labels. Seems to me that people forget that sometimes. But I don't really care. To each their own.


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Weiss
8. Charpentier
7. Couperin
6. Takemitsu
5. Dowland
4. Schnittke
3. Hildegard
2. Gubaidulina
1. Szymanowski


----------



## Guest

Thanks for the illuminating debate. Several interesting aspects emerge from the exchanges so far, and stlukesguildohio offers the most comprehensive examination of the boundaries between genres. In doing so, s/he illustrates how blurred the boundaries are.

One aspect is that the composer presumably takes a view about the tradition that they are working in. Which rulebooks did Cage and Boulez think they were tearing up, I wonder? How far was Paul McCartney conscious of crossing over when he wrote _Ecce Cor Meum?_

Another is whether "the music" exists in one form only. Renee Fleming dresses up and sings 'Summertime' in front of an orchestra in suits: is it the same music if a pop artist takes it and gives it a rock n roll treatment? Is Tomita's treatment of Debussy not classical - the tunes are the same?

And lastly, the use to which the music is put may be pertinent, or the origin of the commission, or the motive behind the writing. Is Howard Shore's commission to write for _The Lord of the Rings_ trilogy a more or less classical purpose than Beethoven's commission to write the 4th symphony?


----------



## pjang23

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli - 283
88. Couperin - 257
89. Dowland - 254
90. Hildegard - 242
91. Wolf - 241
92. Penderecki - 230
93. Smetana - 225
94. Arnold - 223
95. Rott - 217
96. Varèse - 216
97. Schnittke - 210
98. Alfven - 203
98. Walton - 203
100. Schütz - 199
101. Albeniz - 198
102. Franck - 194
103. Hindemith - 191
104. Bax - 186
105. Massenet - 174
106. Dufay - 173
107. Glazunov - 164
108. Boccherini - 158
108. Charpentier - 158
110. Spohr - 142
111. Offenbach - 136
112. Boulez - 132
113. Stockhausen - 130
113. Takemitsu - 130
115. Vogelweide - 128
116. Perotin - 116
117. Novak - 114
118. Szymanowski - 113
119. Brian - 101
120. Honegger - 98
120. Poulenc - 98
122. Lassus - 96
122. Ockeghem - 96
124. Lutoslawski - 93
124. Zelenka - 93
126. Crumb - 91
126. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
128. Xenakis - 88
129. Falla - 82
129. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
129. Martinu - 82
132. Alkan - 81
132. Graun - 81
134. Alwyn - 75
134. Chausson - 75
136. Gombert - 74
137. Medtner - 72
138. Cage - 69
139. Rodrigo - 68
140. Albinoni - 59
141. Paganini - 56
142. Enescu - 54
143. Hasse - 52
143. Piazzolla - 52
145. Clementi - 51
145. Lalo - 51
147. Leifs - 50
147. Tveitt - 50
149. Kodály - 48
149. Korngold - 48
149. Schumann, Clara - 48
152. Bach, W.F. - 45
153. Dussek - 41
153. Gorecki - 41
155. Berio - 40
155. Glinka - 40
155. Tippet - 40
158. Gounod - 36
159. Cherubini - 35
160. Bernstein - 34
161. Graupner - 32
161. Harbison - 32
163. Granados - 30
163. Sorabji - 30
165. Frescobaldi - 28
166. Barrios - 27
167. Gibbons - 26
167. Leonin - 26
167. Locatelli - 26
170. Pachelbel - 25
170. Weiss - 25
172. Khachaturian - 24
173. Golijov - 23
173. MacDowell - 23
173. Milhaud - 23
173. Pergolesi - 23
173. Rubinstein - 23
173. Schuman, William - 23
179. Farrenc - 22
179. Henze - 22
181. Berwald - 20
182. Carter - 19
183. Dukas - 18
183. Hovhaness - 18
185. Balakirev - 17
185. Mompou - 17
185. Vierne - 17
188. Canteloube - 16
188. D'Indy - 16
188. Skalkottas - 16
191. Harris - 15
191. Parry - 15
191. Weinberg - 15
194. Abel - 14
194. Hartmann - 14
194. Wohlfahrt - 14
194. Zemlinsky - 14
194. Zimmerman - 14
199. Gubaidulina - 13
200. Marcello - 11
201. Arensky - 10
201. Beach - 10
201. Bridge - 10
201. Landini - 10
201. Quantz - 10
201. Rudland - 10
207. Holmboe - 9
207. Krommer - 9
207. Reger - 9
207. Widor - 9
211. Allegri - 8
211. Ferneyhough - 8
211. Heinichen - 8
211. Nyman - 8
211. Pettersson - 8
211. Ries - 8
211. Schreker - 8
218. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
218. Sor - 7
218. Stamitz - 7
218. Wyschnegradsky - 7
222. Campra - 6
222. Eberl - 6
222. Fux - 6
222. Ireland - 6
222. Meyerbeer - 6
227. Cavalli - 5
227. Torelli - 5
227. Veress - 5
227. Wieniawski - 5
231. Bloch - 4
231. Brouwer - 4
231. Danzi - 4
231. Guerrero - 4
231. Krenek - 4
231. Mathieu - 4
231. Sarasate - 4
238. De Morales - 3
239. Da Milano - 2
239. Langgaard - 2
239. Marais - 2
239. Myaskovsky - 2
243. Catan - 1
243. Czerny - 1
243. Fasch - 1
243. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
243. Monti - 1
243. Ponce - 1
243. Sanz - 1
243. Strauss I, Johann - 1
243. Ysaÿe - 1
252. Ullmann - -6
253. Schobert - -25


----------



## science

MacLeod said:


> Thanks for the illuminating debate. Several interesting aspects emerge from the exchanges so far, and stlukesguildohio offers the most comprehensive examination of the boundaries between genres. In doing so, s/he illustrates how blurred the boundaries are.
> 
> One aspect is that the composer presumably takes a view about the tradition that they are working in. Which rulebooks did Cage and Boulez think they were tearing up, I wonder? How far was Paul McCartney conscious of crossing over when he wrote _Ecce Cor Meum?_
> 
> Another is whether "the music" exists in one form only. Renee Fleming dresses up and sings 'Summertime' in front of an orchestra in suits: is it the same music if a pop artist takes it and gives it a rock n roll treatment? Is Tomita's treatment of Debussy not classical - the tunes are the same?
> 
> And lastly, the use to which the music is put may be pertinent, or the origin of the commission, or the motive behind the writing. Is Howard Shore's commission to write for _The Lord of the Rings_ trilogy a more or less classical purpose than Beethoven's commission to write the 4th symphony?


Approximately in the unsurpassably wise words of Miles Davis, asked whether _Sketches of Spain_ was jazz: "*I don't know, but it's music and I like it.*"

That should be the last word in genres and classifications.


----------



## pollux

Do you know why language is so great? Because it's so imperfect! Let me explain it with an example. We have the word "chair". Sure, there are thousands of different chair types, but the nice thing is that we have one concept (imperfect as it is) that includes them all. Beyond that, it's true that in certain environments people need to go into more detail. A chair manufacturer must know, and knows, terms that define chairs with more detail.

The conclusion is that language is necessarily imperfect and that its meaning depends on the context where it is used. So, in the context of this thread, I think that we all know what "classical music" means, even if we don't know why. One may like it or not, but that's a different thing.


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Dowland
8	François Couperin

More additions:

7	Louis Couperin
6	Johann Jacob Froberger
5	Clément Janequin
4	Gilles Binchois
3	Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga
2	Roberto Gerhard
1	Josef Strauss

-3 Schnittke


----------



## Very Senior Member

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Even if anyone keeps trying, there will be an argument against it, so we can never establish a "correct" definition. It's a matter of someone showing you a piece, and you deciding whether it's classical or not. It's arbitrary and subjective.
> 
> Bingo!


I disagree with all of this. A case of babies and bathwater, methinks.

It's interesting and surprising that you both appear to be saying that you can only decide upon whether a piece of music is classical or not on a case by case basis by personal inspection? Do you really mean to say that, or have you tripped over yourselves in trying to rubbish the concept of "classical music"? Are there no general rules that you can bring to bear on the subject that would guide you without involving investigating individual pieces? If so, I find that quite astonishing.

In a different context, I'm reminded of the well-known saying first coined by the economics profession that _"Money is What Money Does"_, meaning that money is whatever is generally accepted as a medium of exchange and store of value in a given socio-economic framework. It's a convenient way of avoiding the problem of listing every single kind of object or accounting record that might conceivably qualify as money.

By the same token, we ought to be able to rely on the commonly accepted understanding of what constitutes "classical music". As I suggested previously, it's music that follows certain rules of construction which have changed down the ages. Generally speaking it's written down so that any group of musicians can perform it, not just the originator. Variants of that music can be given different slants (e.g. jazzed up or whatever by the likes of Ella Fitzgerald) but then it becomes jazz, not classical. And Judy Garland singing "Somewhere over the rainbow", or whatever is not classical music.

Returning to "film music", I would bet that a majority of people would have no difficulty saying that film music in general is not classical music. Some of it may be, but only if it sounds right. In case anyone jumps down my throat in saying this, bear a thought for all the music identification requests that have been posted on this Forum in the past, some of which are clearly no more than vague bits of film music or themes from TV programmes and the like. Such posts invariably get very short shrift with the response "not classical music". I haven't ever seen any of the longer term members of this Forum ever questioning judgements of this nature by their colleagues by suggesting something like: _"hang on aren't you being too restrictive in your defintions ...blah blah?_ If you think that film music can be classical, what exactly are the properties you would be looking for that would enable you reach an opinion on the matter one way or the other? You've said you can do it on an individual basis. Please tell us how you decide. Where is the dividing line between classical film music and non-classical film music?

I would go even further and suggest that a good deal of what purports to be classical music as written over the past 30-40 years is probably stretching the definition too far. Some of the more weird stuff is so bad and out of touch with the expectations and wishes of the vast majority that it's an insult to call it classical music. Even some of the more palatable material is probably not going to survive beyond perhaps a few airings amongst a tiny group of fans, so it matters not one jot what we call it.


----------



## Guest

Let me clarify my point of view. I found this website, and decided to join it, because it appears to offer information and the possibility of discussion which will enhance my knowledge of the genre of music I specifically set out to explore. The genre is that typified by the output of the composers I am currently most interested in - Beethoven and Haydn. There. That's that. I'm sure there is (almost?) universal common ground that this is 'classical music.'

However, what I've found is that despite the clear expectation that we're all going to talk about 'classical', the minute you explicitly run a thread for nearly 100 pages on 'top composers', some definition is required: how else can you decide who can be included in a list of any length, never mind a top 50? At that point, an exploration of the common ground, which is large, gives way to examples that mark the boundaries. Whilst there is a body of work by multiple composers (from Monteverdi to Tippett, before and beyond) that has much in common, there are also genres/bodies of work that have some features in common, and some notable differences. Where the genres overlap, it seems reasonable to me to consider individual examples, and not simply dismiss the whole of film music because it fails to meet some specific criteria - that it is written down, or that it is written for someone else to play, that cannot even be established for all generally accepted examples of the classical genre.

Let me say again that I did not set out to divert the thread off topic, and I did ask if this discussion already existed elsewhere - please redirect me, and those who've made a contribution thus far.

Thanks


----------



## crmoorhead

@Stlukesguildohio

I really don't know how to respond to this. It is all very well speaking in emancipated and all-inclusive tones, but that's a hinderance when trying to get anywhere when defining anything. It also goes against the fact that you keep talking about the 'classical tradition' without ever defining your definition of it except by listing a long selection of subgenres that you feel are included in it. I also feel that you have misunderstood a lot of what I was discussing and responded to suggestions that I didn't make vis a vis classical music vs other genres. I did say elsewhere that i felt that film composers and Gershwin should be eligible if people want to vote for them. In fact, I contributed many more votes towards Gershwin than most people.

With regard to lieder, etc, I don't believe that they are 'classical music'. I don't know if there is an equivalent in modern day music, but perhaps the best I can do is to suggest that they are a kind of 'folk music' for the pleasant drawing rooms of the literate middle and upper classes of the 19th century romantics. It is music more at home in amateur performances than the concert hall. I don't know why people find it so hard to distinguish between composers and songwriters. Why would you seek to include them in your definition of classical music? Can you give me an example of a composer who worked in this field almost exclusively and is still deemed a 'classical' composer? If you can do so, I'd consider reversing my position.


----------



## StevenOBrien

10 - Corelli
9 - Hindemith
8 - Poulenc


----------



## Orpheus

Dowland 10
Dufay 9
Szymanowski 8
Brian 7
Franck 6
Barrios 5
Hildegard 4
Gibbons 3
Chausson 2
Sor 1

Stockhausen -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax	+	10
Walton	+	9
Boccherini	+	8
Franck	+	7
Tippet	+	6
Korngold	+	5
Schuman, William	+	4
Poulenc	+	3
Harris	+	2
Korngold	+	1

Varèse	-	3


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> Some of the more weird stuff is so bad and out of touch with the expectations and wishes of the vast majority that it's an insult to call it classical music. Even some of the more palatable material is probably not going to survive beyond perhaps a few airings amongst a tiny group of fans, so it matters not one jot what we call it.


Just because most listeners are too lazy to learn to understand the "weird stuff" doesn't make it bad. And hopefully the necrophiliac nature of classical music will reach a better balance of love and respect for all the great work of the past and listeners actually listening to the great new works by modern masters, rather than stuffing their fingers in their ears and remaining willfully ignorant on the matter.


----------



## BurningDesire

crmoorhead said:


> @Stlukesguildohio
> 
> I really don't know how to respond to this. It is all very well speaking in emancipated and all-inclusive tones, but that's a hinderance when trying to get anywhere when defining anything. It also goes against the fact that you keep talking about the 'classical tradition' without ever defining your definition of it except by listing a long selection of subgenres that you feel are included in it. I also feel that you have misunderstood a lot of what I was discussing and responded to suggestions that I didn't make vis a vis classical music vs other genres. I did say elsewhere that i felt that film composers and Gershwin should be eligible if people want to vote for them. In fact, I contributed many more votes towards Gershwin than most people.
> 
> With regard to lieder, etc, I don't believe that they are 'classical music'. I don't know if there is an equivalent in modern day music, but perhaps the best I can do is to suggest that they are a kind of 'folk music' for the pleasant drawing rooms of the literate middle and upper classes of the 19th century romantics. It is music more at home in amateur performances than the concert hall. I don't know why people find it so hard to distinguish between composers and songwriters. Why would you seek to include them in your definition of classical music? Can you give me an example of a composer who worked in this field almost exclusively and is still deemed a 'classical' composer? If you can do so, I'd consider reversing my position.


Well, Mahler's output mostly consisted of songs and symphonies, and elements of songs are contained in several of the symphonies, and Schubert's largest output was in his brilliant lieder. Honestly isn't this the _most_ arbitrary reason that anybody has presented to exclude stuff? "Oh, this has singing in it, therefore it can't be classical! " "But what about opera and cantatas? What about Beethoven's 9th Symphony or Gorecki's 3rd Symphony?" "Well those are okay cause those have an orchestra..."


----------



## crmoorhead

BurningDesire said:


> Well, Mahler's output mostly consisted of songs and symphonies, and elements of songs are contained in several of the symphonies, and Schubert's largest output was in his brilliant lieder. Honestly isn't this the _most_ arbitrary reason that anybody has presented to exclude stuff? "Oh, this has singing in it, therefore it can't be classical! " "But what about opera and cantatas? What about Beethoven's 9th Symphony or Gorecki's 3rd Symphony?" "Well those are okay cause those have an orchestra..."


Ha! I wouldn't call Mahler or Schubert's output 'almost exclusively' songs. I'm saying that the role of songwriter is different from classical composer. That isn't to say that there aren't classical composers who composed songs, of course there are, but there might very well be no songwriters that are deemed classical composers by that alone. Songwriters are motivated by different things. But maybe we should move this to your other thread?


----------



## science

MacLeod said:


> Let me clarify my point of view. I found this website, and decided to join it, because it appears to offer information and the possibility of discussion which will enhance my knowledge of the genre of music I specifically set out to explore. The genre is that typified by the output of the composers I am currently most interested in - Beethoven and Haydn. There. That's that. I'm sure there is (almost?) universal common ground that this is 'classical music.'
> 
> However, what I've found is that despite the clear expectation that we're all going to talk about 'classical', the minute you explicitly run a thread for nearly 100 pages on 'top composers', some definition is required: how else can you decide who can be included in a list of any length, never mind a top 50? At that point, an exploration of the common ground, which is large, gives way to examples that mark the boundaries. Whilst there is a body of work by multiple composers (from Monteverdi to Tippett, before and beyond) that has much in common, there are also genres/bodies of work that have some features in common, and some notable differences. Where the genres overlap, it seems reasonable to me to consider individual examples, and not simply dismiss the whole of film music because it fails to meet some specific criteria - that it is written down, or that it is written for someone else to play, that cannot even be established for all generally accepted examples of the classical genre.
> 
> Let me say again that I did not set out to divert the thread off topic, and I did ask if this discussion already existed elsewhere - please redirect me, and those who've made a contribution thus far.
> 
> Thanks


http://www.talkclassical.com/20164-definition-classical-music.html

I don't know if it's exactly what you're asking for, but it's something like.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

It's interesting and surprising that you both appear to be saying that you can only decide upon whether a piece of music is classical or not on a case by case basis by personal inspection? Do you really mean to say that, or have you tripped over yourselves in trying to rubbish the concept of "classical music"? Are there no general rules that you can bring to bear on the subject that would guide you without involving investigating individual pieces? If so, I find that quite astonishing.

OK... since it is so easy... please tell me how you define "classical music" as a musical style distinct from other styles when all of the following are accepted works of "classical music":


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

... and yet a definition which clearly excludes the following on the basis of style:


























In a different context, I'm reminded of the well-known saying first coined by the economics profession that "Money is What Money Does", meaning that money is whatever is generally accepted as a medium of exchange and store of value in a given socio-economic framework. It's a convenient way of avoiding the problem of listing every single kind of object or accounting record that might conceivably qualify as money.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

By the same token, we ought to be able to rely on the commonly accepted understanding of what constitutes "classical music". As I suggested previously, it's music that follows certain rules of construction which have changed down the ages.[/COLOR]

But then who is determining what amounts to "classical music"? Some would suggest that this is classical music:






or this:






or this:






or this:






or this:






While more than a few would argue that one or more of the above examples are too far removed from the tradition of "classical music" to be thought of as such. I will again mention the fact that the very concept and/or term "classical music" is only a recent attempt to differentiate the music of the social-economic (and thus presumed intellectual and cultural) "elite" from the rest of the riff-raff... but it ignores the fact that music continually blurs all these boundaries.

Returning to "film music", I would bet that a majority of people would have no difficulty saying that film music in general is not classical music. Some of it may be, but only if it sounds right. In case anyone jumps down my throat in saying this, bear a thought for all the music identification requests that have been posted on this Forum in the past, some of which are clearly no more than vague bits of film music or themes from TV programmes and the like. Such posts invariably get very short shrift with the response "not classical music".

So again... what makes the works of Bernard Herman or Elmer Bernstein fall short of being "classical music" while ballet and incidental music written for the theater is classical music... and Xenakis and Pierre Schaeffer and John Cage's 4:33 is "classical music"?

If you think that film music can be classical, what exactly are the properties you would be looking for that would enable you reach an opinion on the matter one way or the other? You've said you can do it on an individual basis. Please tell us how you decide. Where is the dividing line between classical film music and non-classical film music?

If "classical music" essentially is a term employed as a means of value judgment... denoting the best or finest music... the "classics"... then it would seem that judging what is or is not a "classic" is no different whether we are judging Mozart or John Williams. In the fields of Art and Literature no one would presume to suggest that every painting Rembrandt made was a "classic" nor every poem written by Keats. Are we to assume that every quartet written by Mozart was a "classic"? If... alternatively... you are using the term "classical music" purely as a means of defining a style of music (and not as a value judgment) then please, again, tell me how you possibly come to such a definition when the music includes everything from Byzantine Chants to chanson of the troubadours, to Renaissance madrigals, to comic opera, to string quartets, to Schoenberg's _Pierrot Lunaire_ to Gershwin's _Summertime_ to Golijov and _musique concrete_?

I would go even further and suggest that a good deal of what purports to be classical music as written over the past 30-40 years is probably stretching the definition too far. Some of the more weird stuff is so bad and out of touch with the expectations and wishes of the vast majority that it's an insult to call it classical music. Even some of the more palatable material is probably not going to survive beyond perhaps a few airings amongst a tiny group of fans, so it matters not one jot what we call it.

OK... that brings me again to my question concerning the test of time. "Classics" is any artistic genre are commonly seen as those works that survive beyond their own era... where the popularity of the moment and the impact of marketing no longer has any impact. So why is it not possible that _Somewhere Over the Rainbow_ or _Norwegian Wood_ or Miles Davis' _Kind of Blue_ will outlast Stockhausen and Pierre Schaeffer and Philip Glass and be considered "classics"?


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

With regard to lieder, etc, I don't believe that they are 'classical music'. I don't know if there is an equivalent in modern day music, but perhaps the best I can do is to suggest that they are a kind of 'folk music' for the pleasant drawing rooms of the literate middle and upper classes of the 19th century romantics. It is music more at home in amateur performances than the concert hall. I don't know why people find it so hard to distinguish between composers and songwriters. Why would you seek to include them in your definition of classical music? Can you give me an example of a composer who worked in this field almost exclusively and is still deemed a 'classical' composer? If you can do so, I'd consider reversing my position.

Well let's begin by saying that if you eliminated Schubert's lieder, I would no longer even begin to think of him as ranking among the top ten composers of all time. Henri Duparc and Reynaldo Hahn immediately come to mind as composers known almost solely for their songs. Othmar Schoeck, Ned Rorem, Jake Heggie, and John Dowland are equally known primarily as songwriters. I suspect that the vast majority of those whose listen to the songs/lieder/melodies of Schubert, Mahler, Schumann, Brahms, Strauss, Faure, Debussy, Ravel, Duparc, Schoeck, Berg, Webern, Rorem, Heggie, etc... clearly define these works as "classical music".


----------



## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> OK... that brings me again to my question concerning the test of time. "Classics" is any artistic genre are commonly seen as those works that survive beyond their own era... where the popularity of the moment and the impact of marketing no longer has any impact. So why is it not possible that _Somewhere Over the Rainbow_ or _Norwegian Wood_ or Miles Davis' _Kind of Blue_ will outlast Stockhausen and Pierre Schaeffer and Philip Glass and be considered "classics"?


I would like to bring up that popular consensus isn't a great qualifier for what makes a great work of art. Many great ancient works may have remained in obscurity and become lost to the world had it not been for small groups who recognized the beauty in those works.


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith	
9.	Corelli	
8.	Franck	
7.	Walton	
6.	Couperin	
5.	Chausson	
4.	Glazunov	
3.	Boccherini	
2.	Albinoni	
1.	Arnold


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Xenakis
8 Penderecki
7 Crumb
6 Martinu
5 Varese

-3 Charpentier


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> I would like to bring up that popular consensus isn't a great qualifier for what makes a great work of art. Many great ancient works may have remained in obscurity and become lost to the world had it not been for small groups who recognized the beauty in those works.


Really? Please name all the great composers (or great musical compositions) who/which have been consistently unpopular down the ages.


----------



## pjang23

10 Glazunov
9 Franck
8 Dufay
7 Lassus
6 Chausson
5 Gibbons
4 Perotin
3 Ockeghem
2 Khachaturian
1 Alkan
-3 Alfven

Current Results: Corelli is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Dowland - 273
89. Couperin, François - 271
90. Hildegard - 246
91. Wolf - 241
92. Penderecki - 238
93. Smetana - 225
94. Arnold - 224
94. Franck - 224
96. Walton - 219
97. Varèse - 218
98. Rott - 217
99. Hindemith - 210
100. Schütz - 209
101. Schnittke - 207
102. Alfven - 200
103. Albeniz - 198
104. Bax - 196
105. Dufay - 190
106. Glazunov - 178
107. Massenet - 174
108. Boccherini - 169
109. Charpentier - 155
110. Spohr - 142
111. Stockhausen - 137
112. Offenbach - 136
113. Boulez - 132
114. Takemitsu - 130
115. Vogelweide - 128
116. Szymanowski - 121
117. Perotin - 120
118. Novak - 114
119. Poulenc - 109
120. Brian - 108
121. Lassus - 103
122. Ockeghem - 99
123. Crumb - 98
123. Honegger - 98
125. Xenakis - 97
126. Lutoslawski - 93
126. Zelenka - 93
128. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
129. Chausson - 88
129. Martinu - 88
131. Alkan - 82
131. Falla - 82
131. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
134. Graun - 81
135. Alwyn - 75
136. Gombert - 74
137. Medtner - 72
138. Cage - 69
139. Rodrigo - 68
140. Albinoni - 61
141. Paganini - 56
142. Enescu - 54
143. Korngold - 53
144. Hasse - 52
144. Piazzolla - 52
146. Clementi - 51
146. Lalo - 51
148. Leifs - 50
148. Tveitt - 50
150. Kodály - 48
150. Schumann, Clara - 48
152. Tippet - 46
153. Bach, W.F. - 45
154. Dussek - 41
154. Gorecki - 41
156. Berio - 40
156. Glinka - 40
158. Gounod - 36
159. Cherubini - 35
160. Bernstein - 34
160. Gibbons - 34
162. Barrios - 32
162. Graupner - 32
162. Harbison - 32
165. Granados - 30
165. Sorabji - 30
167. Frescobaldi - 28
168. Schuman, William - 27
169. Khachaturian - 26
169. Leonin - 26
169. Locatelli - 26
172. Pachelbel - 25
172. Weiss - 25
174. Golijov - 23
174. MacDowell - 23
174. Milhaud - 23
174. Pergolesi - 23
174. Rubinstein - 23
179. Farrenc - 22
179. Henze - 22
181. Berwald - 20
182. Carter - 19
183. Dukas - 18
183. Hovhaness - 18
185. Balakirev - 17
185. Harris - 17
185. Mompou - 17
185. Vierne - 17
189. Canteloube - 16
189. D'Indy - 16
189. Skalkottas - 16
192. Parry - 15
192. Weinberg - 15
194. Abel - 14
194. Hartmann - 14
194. Wohlfahrt - 14
194. Zemlinsky - 14
194. Zimmerman - 14
199. Gubaidulina - 13
200. Marcello - 11
201. Arensky - 10
201. Beach - 10
201. Bridge - 10
201. Landini - 10
201. Quantz - 10
201. Rudland - 10
207. Holmboe - 9
207. Krommer - 9
207. Reger - 9
207. Widor - 9
211. Allegri - 8
211. Ferneyhough - 8
211. Heinichen - 8
211. Nyman - 8
211. Pettersson - 8
211. Ries - 8
211. Schreker - 8
211. Sor - 8
219. Couperin, Louis - 7
219. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
219. Stamitz - 7
219. Wyschnegradsky - 7
223. Campra - 6
223. Eberl - 6
223. Froberger - 6
223. Fux - 6
223. Ireland - 6
223. Meyerbeer - 6
229. Cavalli - 5
229. Janequin - 5
229. Torelli - 5
229. Veress - 5
229. Wieniawski - 5
234. Binchois - 4
234. Bloch - 4
234. Brouwer - 4
234. Danzi - 4
234. Guerrero - 4
234. Krenek - 4
234. Mathieu - 4
234. Sarasate - 4
242. Arriaga - 3
242. De Morales - 3
244. Da Milano - 2
244. Gerhard - 2
244. Langgaard - 2
244. Marais - 2
244. Myaskovsky - 2
249. Catan - 1
249. Czerny - 1
249. Fasch - 1
249. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
249. Monti - 1
249. Ponce - 1
249. Sanz - 1
249. Strauss I, Johann - 1
249. Strauss, Josef - 1
249. Ysaÿe - 1
259. Ullmann - -6
260. Schobert - -25


----------



## Bas

J.S. Bach + 10
G.F. Handl +9
J. Haydn + 8
C.P.E Bach + 7
Ludwig van Beethoven + 6
Franz Schubert + 5
Rosinni +4
Puccini +3
Charles Valentin Alkan +2
M. Haydn +1


Deduct 3 points of Strauss please.


----------



## Very Senior Member

StlukesguildOhio said:


> By the same token, we ought to be able to rely on the commonly accepted understanding of what constitutes "classical music". As I suggested previously, it's music that follows certain rules of construction which have changed down the ages.
> 
> etc


I can only say that I'm surprised that I find myself in disagreement with you over these issues. I had assumed from what I have read previously of your many posts that you didn't hold much truck with relativist ideas such as beuaty being only in the eye of the beholder, and now that classical music is so broad that no satisfactory all-embracing definition can be used. I do not myself hold any such relativist ideas, preferring to believe instead that there are objective measures of what is good and bad and points in between, and that there is sufficently satisfactory everyday notion of what comprises classical music and what doesn't without any need to jettison completely the whole idea of any such delineation. The objective measures I refer to are empirical in nature, not idealistic (e.g platonic).


----------



## pjang23

Bas said:


> J.S. Bach + 10
> G.F. Handl +9
> J. Haydn + 8
> C.P.E Bach + 7
> Ludwig van Beethoven + 6
> Franz Schubert + 5
> Rosinni +4
> Puccini +3
> Charles Valentin Alkan +2
> M. Haydn +1
> 
> 
> Deduct 3 points of Strauss please.


Thanks for participating Bas. You cannot make votes for composers that have already reached 300 points (#1-87) as they are permanently placed.


----------



## BurningDesire

Very Senior Member said:


> Really? Please name all the great composers (or great musical compositions) who/which have been consistently unpopular down the ages.


Well it varies, but for instance the works of Bach and other great Baroque (let alone great works of the Renaissance or older) fell into obscurity during the 19th Century. People not knowing or caring about Bach in the 19th Century didn't negate his brilliance. Antonio Salieri was popular in his day, but his work is not particularly popular today, even though it is quite good music. And there are plenty examples from the 20th Century who may never be really popular: Ives, Varese, Webern, Schoenberg, Berg, Ligeti, Stockhausen, Schnittke, Babbitt, Boulez, Zappa, all of whom are brilliant composers. Some music takes a bit of effort to understand, and thus enjoy, and most people (at least at the moment) are too lazy to put in that effort and would rather just write it off as crap. Their ignorance does not nullify the beauty and the genius of tone poems like Arcana, or Ligeti's micropolyphony, or Zappa's imaginative works that negate the barriers some would put between classical and jazz and pop music.


----------



## BurningDesire

Yo, thanks for ignoring those 10 points I put in for Frank Zappa.


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> Just because most listeners are too lazy to learn to understand the "weird stuff" doesn't make it bad. And hopefully the necrophiliac nature of classical music will reach a better balance of love and respect for all the great work of the past and listeners actually listening to the great new works by modern masters, rather than stuffing their fingers in their ears and remaining willfully ignorant on the matter.


I agree that some listeners, possibly out of lack of education, may be too lazy to move out of their comfort zone of music appreciation and thus miss out on good listening opportunities. But I don't accept your presumption that most listeners are too lazy to do so, since this would involve an illogical assertion that normal behaviour (as determined empirically by looking at trends amomg the listening public at large) is somehow abnormal.

If most listeners don't wish to learn about the material we're talking about it must imply that they have found alternative ways of spending their time and budgets, thus resulting in greater overall enjoyment than would otherwise be the case. For any individual to suggest that the mass of listeners have made sub-optimal decisions by not investing sufficient resources in music that appeals mainly to that individual and few others involves quite a degree of arrogance on the part of that individual that only they know what's best for most other people, don't you think?


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> Yo, thanks for ignoring those 10 points I put in for Frank Zappa.


Crossover artists are not permitted. See Forum Rules 3.5 sub-paragraph 45 (1)(b).

Besides he hasn't been dead long enough


----------



## crmoorhead

Well let's begin by saying that if you eliminated Schubert's lieder, I would no longer even begin to think of him as ranking among the top ten composers of all time. Henri Duparc and Reynaldo Hahn immediately come to mind as composers known almost solely for their songs. Othmar Schoeck, Ned Rorem, Jake Heggie, and John Dowland are equally known primarily as songwriters. I suspect that the vast majority of those whose listen to the songs/lieder/melodies of Schubert, Mahler, Schumann, Brahms, Strauss, Faure, Debussy, Ravel, Duparc, Schoeck, Berg, Webern, Rorem, Heggie, etc... clearly define these works as "classical music".

I'll meet you half way here. I asked for composers who are known as 'classical composers' that wrote almost exclusively songs. The two that you name are not even on the list of 260 composers in this thread which, to me, would indicate that they are so far ourside the repertoire or general classification/knowledge of classical music as to prove my point. After a little research, one of them (Hahn) has clearly written a lot of other pieces outside of his songs, so that does disqualify him from the condition I proposed. Whether they are best known for there songs was not what I asked for because I am trying to prove my opinion that classical composer is a different thing from being a songwriter.

I will, however, accept that most people who listen to the lieder or songs of the composers you name accept them as being 'classical', but I also think that this is only by association. Those who are purely songwriters for piano and voice etc for people to perform in their own homes do not register with what most people call classical. I reserve the right to make that distinction myself based on that evidence, but I'll accept that many others wouldn't agree.

EDIT: As far as Schubert's works go, placing him further down your personal ranking is nothing really to do with whether or not songs are classical compositions. I think that Schubert's symphonies, string quartets, masses, piano works and other chamber works have enough merit on their own to place him highly in any list.


----------



## BurningDesire

crmoorhead said:


> The two that you name are not even on the list of 260 composers in this thread which, to me, would indicate that they are so far ourside the repertoire or general classification/knowledge of classical music as to prove my point. After a little research, one of them (Hahn) has clearly written a lot of other pieces outside of his songs, so that does disqualify him from the condition I proposed. Whether they are best known for there songs was not what I asked for because I am trying to prove my opinion that classical composer is a different thing from being a songwriter.




Again, popularity doesn't validate quality, and your condition is silly because your opinion doesn't have any good reasoning behind it. You're assuming that songs in general are more about the words than the sounds, and for the type of composer one would call a songwriter, such as Bob Dylan, that might be true. But its a very silly notion to claim that about Schubert of Debussy or Schoenberg or Mahler's songs. Have you even listened to any of them?


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

François Couperin = +10
Sylvius Leopold Weiss = +9
Ferdinand Ries = +8
Louis Spohr = +7
Jules Massenet = +6
Carl Stamitz = +5
Luigi Boccherini = +4
Jan Ladislav Dussek = +3
Carl Heinrich Graun = +2
Johann Friedrich Fasch = +1

Edgard Varèse = -3


----------



## Bas

Bas said:


> J.S. Bach + 10
> G.F. Handl +9
> J. Haydn + 8
> C.P.E Bach + 7
> Ludwig van Beethoven + 6
> Franz Schubert + 5
> Rosinni +4
> Puccini +3
> Charles Valentin Alkan +2
> M. Haydn +1
> 
> 
> Deduct 3 points of Strauss please.


Ah, I did not knew I couldn't vote for people already on the list:

In that case I'd vote for the following people (and let my first attempt be only representative for my taste (e.g. this is what I'd do if I was asked in the middle of the night, without any conditions):


Couperin + 10
Charles Valentin Alkan +9
Arvo Part + 8
Gorecki + 7
Micahel Haydn + 6
Rossinni + 5
Puccini + 4


----------



## science

10 Allegri 
9 Gounod
8 Milhaud 
7 Arensky 
6 Binchois 
5 Canteloube
4 Reger
3 Hovhaness
2 Zemlinksy
1 Czerny


----------



## crmoorhead

10 pts Couperin
9 Glazunov
8 Cage
7 Honneger
6 Arnold
5 Gorecki
4 Dukas
3 Falla
2 Korngold
1 Walton


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I would like to bring up that popular consensus isn't a great qualifier for what makes a great work of art. Many great ancient works may have remained in obscurity and become lost to the world had it not been for small groups who recognized the beauty in those works.

There are such obscure works that are eventually rediscovered. But can we honestly say that Vermeer's paintings were "classics" in 1800... before they were rediscovered and recognized as major works of art by the art audience? It seems to me that any "classic" work of art is something that has survived the years and continues to resonate with the educated audience including academics, critics, subsequent artists, and the art lover. If we suggest that any work that is embraced by a small group who appreciate and recognize the beauty in said work, we have pretty much opened the door to anything and everything for certainly there is an audience for almost anything... no matter how strange... no matter how bad.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I can only say that I'm surprised that I find myself in disagreement with you over these issues. I had assumed from what I have read previously of your many posts that you didn't hold much truck with relativist ideas such as beuaty being only in the eye of the beholder, and now that classical music is so broad that no satisfactory all-embracing definition can be used. I do not myself hold any such relativist ideas...

To suggest that "classical music"... or let's simply abandon that loaded term and say instead "great music" is not limited to the composers who have been traditionally defined as part of "classical music" is not to suggest that there are no standards... that I am calling for any sort of cultural relativism. I'm not suggesting that we think of all film music or all popular songs as "great"... anymore than I'm suggesting that we think of all symphonies written during the so-called "classical era" as great. Hell... not even all of Mozart's symphonies are great.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Hell... not even all of Mozart's symphonies are great.


Immediately thought of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leck_mich_im_Arsch


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Well it varies, but for instance the works of Bach and other great Baroque (let alone great works of the Renaissance or older) fell into obscurity during the 19th Century. People not knowing or caring about Bach in the 19th Century didn't negate his brilliance. 

The question as to how something becomes acknowledged as a work of art has been raised any number of times over the years. Some suggest that a creation is a work of art as long as the creator says it is so. Thus if Duchamp says a urinal is art... its art... because he's an artist and he ought to know.

I disagree. I feel that something only becomes art when the art audience... the audience comprised of those who have put forth the greatest effort in the appreciation, understanding, preservation, and creation of art... deem said work to be art. The medieval scribes who illuminated manuscripts never thought of themselves as artists... nor did the painters of the caves at Lascaux... but they most certainly created art... because it is acknowledged as such today by the art audience.

The same, I would suggest, would seem to apply to Bach or Biber or Zelenka. Can we rightfully term their works "classics" when they were largely unknown? Of course the problem here is still defining the term "classical music". If we are simply suggesting that the term is a value judgment... akin to "great music"... well then opinions will always vary (although some opinions are worth more than others). The brilliance of Bach and Zelenka... in spite of their obscurity... were always recognized by some. And as you note... "some" also recognize the brilliance of berg, Ligeti, Stockhausen, Babbit, Boulez, Zappa, Pierre Schaeffer, etc... Is "some"... a recognition by a small minority... even a small minority of those well-versed in music... enough to assure a composer the status of "classic"?

Some time ago I was reading as interview with Philip Glass in which he acknowledged that he was somewhat uncomfortable with the terms "classical music" or "art music" which he felt placed a barrier between musical styles that was unrealistic and unnecessary. Glass, after all, has clearly absorbed ideas from popular music, non-Western music, and other sources beyond the accepted concepts of "classical music." Glass suggested that the only differentiation he could discern was that of the innovator... the artist/composer who invents a new language... and the artists who employ a pre-existing language. Glass went on to suggest that this was no value judgment as he admitted that many composers who employ the innovations wrought by others do so with far greater success. He even acknowledged, for example, that he has heard works by other composers... even popular musicians... who have employed some of the ideas he brought to music... but do so to a greater end.

I think from here on we should take this discussion to the thread established for it and allow this thread to remain focused up the Poll of favorite composers.


----------



## crmoorhead

BurningDesire said:


> Again, popularity doesn't validate quality, and your condition is silly because your opinion doesn't have any good reasoning behind it. You're assuming that songs in general are more about the words than the sounds, and for the type of composer one would call a songwriter, such as Bob Dylan, that might be true. But its a very silly notion to claim that about Schubert of Debussy or Schoenberg or Mahler's songs. Have you even listened to any of them?


Who said anything about popularity? A list of 260 composers chosen by consensus should be a good enough test for what 'classical music' might be. My condition is based on trying to seperate out the variables in a logical manner. If the fairly comprehensive list above does not include any composers who worked almost exclusively on songs, then it seems a valid assumption to say that, while some classical composers may compose songs, being famous for composing songs does not automatically make one a classical composer. Those from set A do not necessarily belong to set B. I do, however, accept that most people view lieder and the like as being different from other forms of song because of their association with classical composers. They have been adopted into the genre because of that association.

Songs _are_ about the words. Mahler, Schubert and Debussy wrote music to their own chosen texts of Schiller, Goethe, Verlaine or whoever. If the music is good, that's all very well, but the primary means of communication are the words themselves. That's the appeal (both then and now), but there is also the fact that most lieder written at the time were for people to perform in their own homes at social gatherings. I feel that the market for the songs of famous composers and their other works was very different. The term 'songwriter' also applies differently in different times. As I understand it, however, Stlukesguildohio was suggesting that all songwriters are eligible as classical composers if their works end up becoming 'classics', including Bob Dylan or ABBA etc This is also, I might point out, something dependent on popularity.

I have listened to songs by Mahler, Debussy, Berlioz, Schoenberg and others and the one thing that strikes me is that I enjoy their other works much better. When I talk about songs, however, I am also talking about short compositions. You are implying that the music in songs by top composers is above that of other songwriters, especially when it comes to Schubert or Schumann, but aren't they likely to be extreme cases? Most songwriters don't have the skill of those two, or even of Berlioz or Ravel, so how can it be reasonable to apply their standards to all songwriters that you deem worthy enough?


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Graun, C.H. · 5
Albinoni · 4
Charpentier · 3
Takemitsu · 2
Weill · 1


HX7-53b, classical composing unit from the future (January 13, 2257 AD, to be precise) · -3


----------



## Toddlertoddy

Bas said:


> Ah, I did not knew I couldn't vote for people already on the list:
> 
> In that case I'd vote for the following people (and let my first attempt be only representative for my taste (e.g. this is what I'd do if I was asked in the middle of the night, without any conditions):
> 
> 
> Couperin + 10
> Charles Valentin Alkan +9
> *Arvo Part + 8*
> Gorecki + 7
> *Micahel Haydn + 6*
> *Rossinni + 5*
> *Puccini + 4*


Already on the list.


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Schutz
8. Charpentier
7. Couperin
6. Schnittke
5. Weiss
4. Takemitsu
3. Brian
2. Hildegard
1. Walton


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Songs are about the words.

Well... we could apply this criticism to all vocal music: cantatas, oratorios, motets, masses, opera. But then I've never been a purist or adherent to the concept of absolute music (sans any non-musical elements). I might even go so far as to suggest that ballets (Rameau, Lully, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Massenet, etc...) are "about" dance... the movement of the human body. That, again, doesn't undermine the music.

If the music is good, that's all very well, but the primary means of communication are the words themselves.

And here you are arguing the exact opposite of what another member suggested with regard to opera. Sophisticated listeners, he suggested, ignore the text/narrative/drama and focus solely upon the music. I wholly disagree... but neither do I imagine the text as "primary". I listen to a whole lot of vocal music... including lieder of Schumann and Schubert, melodies of Faure, Debussy, Duparc, and Ravel, and the songs of Samuel Barber, Charles Ives, Ned Rorem, and Jake Heggie... and quite often I listen to these completely oblivious of the words. Other times I do follow along with the text. But in no way is the text "primary".

...there is also the fact that most lieder written at the time were for people to perform in their own homes at social gatherings...

The same is true of most chamber music, music for solo keyboard, etc... What I would argue is that the intended purpose and/or audience has absolutely nothing to do with the aesthetic merit.

I have listened to songs by Mahler, Debussy, Berlioz, Schoenberg and others and the one thing that strikes me is that I enjoy their other works much better.

On the other hand, I would rank Berlioz' _Les nuits d'été_, the melodies of Faure and Debussy, Richard Strauss' _Four Last Songs_, Schubert's _Winterreise_, Mahler's _Das Lied von der Erde_, Berg's _Seven Early Songs_, and Mozart's concert arias (such as _Per questa bella mano_) among their greatest achievements.

I am also talking about short compositions.

That would seem irrelevant. The preludes and fugues that comprise Bach's _Well Tempered Clavier_ are all "short". The add up to something stupendous. So too do such collections as Schubert's _Winterreise_ or _Schwannengesang_. Nor do I think that brevity excludes a work from brilliance. Surely the short poems of Shakespeare, Blake, Keats, Yeats, Baudelaire, etc... are acknowledged as literary masterpieces of the highest order.


----------



## Guest

crmoorhead said:


> Songs _are_ about the words.


Then why not leave it at the words? Why add the music? They are surely of equal importance, neither one is 'primary'.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Offenbach +10
2. Hildegard +9
3. Perotin +8
4. Zelenka +7
5. Dufay +6
6. Schütz +5
7. Massenet +4
8. Boccherini +3
9. Couperin +2 (Should now be in)
10. Korngold +1

Varese -3


----------



## pjang23

crmoorhead said:


> Songs _are_ about the words. Mahler, Schubert and Debussy wrote music to their own chosen texts of Schiller, Goethe, Verlaine or whoever. If the music is good, that's all very well, but the primary means of communication are the words themselves.


I don't find that to be the case in art song (though I generally do with pop songs). The music is there to bring the text to life by using sound to express things that cannot be expressed in spoken language. For example, this Schubert song uses the piano to depict a river responding to the singer's pleas. Could you think of any way to do that from just reciting the text?


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Francois Couperin is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland - 273
90. Hildegard - 257
91. Wolf - 249
92. Penderecki - 238
93. Smetana - 235
94. Arnold - 230
95. Rott - 226
96. Franck - 224
97. Schütz - 223
98. Walton - 221
99. Schnittke - 213
100. Varèse - 212
101. Hindemith - 210
102. Albeniz - 208
103. Alfven - 200
104. Bax - 196
104. Dufay - 196
106. Glazunov - 187
107. Massenet - 184
108. Boccherini - 176
109. Charpentier - 166
110. Spohr - 149
111. Offenbach - 146
112. Stockhausen - 137
113. Takemitsu - 136
114. Vogelweide - 135
115. Boulez - 132
116. Perotin - 128
117. Szymanowski - 121
118. Novak - 114
119. Brian - 111
120. Poulenc - 109
121. Honegger - 105
122. Lassus - 103
123. Zelenka - 100
124. Ockeghem - 99
125. Crumb - 98
126. Xenakis - 97
127. Lutoslawski - 93
128. Alkan - 91
128. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
130. Chausson - 88
130. Graun - 88
130. Martinu - 88
133. Falla - 85
134. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
135. Cage - 77
136. Alwyn - 75
137. Gombert - 74
138. Medtner - 72
139. Rodrigo - 68
140. Albinoni - 65
141. Korngold - 56
141. Paganini - 56
143. Enescu - 54
144. Gorecki - 53
145. Hasse - 52
145. Piazzolla - 52
147. Clementi - 51
147. Lalo - 51
149. Leifs - 50
149. Tveitt - 50
151. Kodály - 48
151. Schumann, Clara - 48
153. Tippet - 46
154. Bach, W.F. - 45
154. Gounod - 45
156. Dussek - 44
157. Berio - 40
157. Glinka - 40
159. Weiss - 39
160. Cherubini - 35
161. Bernstein - 34
161. Gibbons - 34
163. Barrios - 32
163. Graupner - 32
163. Harbison - 32
166. Milhaud - 31
166. Pachelbel - 31
168. Granados - 30
168. Sorabji - 30
170. Frescobaldi - 28
171. Schuman, William - 27
172. Khachaturian - 26
172. Leonin - 26
172. Locatelli - 26
175. Golijov - 23
175. MacDowell - 23
175. Pergolesi - 23
175. Rubinstein - 23
179. Dukas - 22
179. Farrenc - 22
179. Henze - 22
182. Canteloube - 21
182. Hovhaness - 21
184. Berwald - 20
185. Carter - 19
186. Allegri - 18
187. Arensky - 17
187. Balakirev - 17
187. Harris - 17
187. Mompou - 17
187. Vierne - 17
192. D'Indy - 16
192. Ries - 16
192. Skalkottas - 16
192. Zemlinsky - 16
196. Parry - 15
196. Weinberg - 15
198. Abel - 14
198. Hartmann - 14
198. Wohlfahrt - 14
198. Zimmerman - 14
202. Gubaidulina - 13
202. Reger - 13
204. Stamitz - 12
205. Marcello - 11
206. Beach - 10
206. Binchois - 10
206. Bridge - 10
206. Landini - 10
206. Quantz - 10
206. Rudland - 10
212. Holmboe - 9
212. Krommer - 9
212. Widor - 9
215. Ferneyhough - 8
215. Heinichen - 8
215. Nyman - 8
215. Pettersson - 8
215. Schreker - 8
215. Sor - 8
221. Couperin, Louis - 7
221. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
221. Wyschnegradsky - 7
224. Campra - 6
224. Eberl - 6
224. Froberger - 6
224. Fux - 6
224. Ireland - 6
224. Meyerbeer - 6
230. Cavalli - 5
230. Janequin - 5
230. Torelli - 5
230. Veress - 5
230. Wieniawski - 5
235. Bloch - 4
235. Brouwer - 4
235. Danzi - 4
235. Guerrero - 4
235. Krenek - 4
235. Mathieu - 4
235. Sarasate - 4
242. Arriaga - 3
242. De Morales - 3
244. Czerny - 2
244. Da Milano - 2
244. Fasch - 2
244. Gerhard - 2
244. Langgaard - 2
244. Marais - 2
244. Myaskovsky - 2
251. Catan - 1
251. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
251. Monti - 1
251. Ponce - 1
251. Sanz - 1
251. Strauss I, Johann - 1
251. Strauss, Josef - 1
251. Weill - 1
251. Ysaÿe - 1
260. Ullmann - -6
261. Schobert - -25


----------



## science

There might be something to what pjang23 says above. I don't know about it. 

But at least some popular or folk songs don't seem necessarily about the words. People constantly enjoy pop music in languages they can't understand at all. This really came home to me one Sunday morning in Korea when I was at a Dunkin Donuts filled with families on their way to church, listening contently to Eminem rap about cutting up waitresses with chainsaws. And just now I'm listening to some kind of Arabian music without a clue what the woman is saying. But as the music emphasizes the rhythm probably no one will call it classical. 

Another example might be lyrics that no one understands. You'd throw a lot of rocks into a crowd at a blues concert before hitting someone who could say what "dust my broom" means. 

And of course there is instrumental pop music. 

I don't of course mean that pop music never emphasizes the words and neglects the music. I only point all this out because the world remains complicated, and if you're going to successfully box it up you'll have to acknowledge it! But at some point we'll probably have to acknowledge the arbitrariness of our categories.


----------



## Very Senior Member

BurningDesire said:


> Well it varies, but for instance the works of Bach and other great Baroque (let alone great works of the Renaissance or older) fell into obscurity during the 19th Century. People not knowing or caring about Bach in the 19th Century didn't negate his brilliance. Antonio Salieri was popular in his day, but his work is not particularly popular today, even though it is quite good music. And there are plenty examples from the 20th Century who may never be really popular: Ives, Varese, Webern, Schoenberg, Berg, Ligeti, Stockhausen, Schnittke, Babbitt, Boulez, Zappa, all of whom are brilliant composers. Some music takes a bit of effort to understand, and thus enjoy, and most people (at least at the moment) are too lazy to put in that effort and would rather just write it off as crap. Their ignorance does not nullify the beauty and the genius of tone poems like Arcana, or Ligeti's micropolyphony, or Zappa's imaginative works that negate the barriers some would put between classical and jazz and pop music.


You haven't provided examples of composers of the type I requested, namely great composers who have been consistently unpopular down the ages.

Bach's lack of popularity began in the late 18th C and continued some way into the 19th. But this was not so much a specific problem with Bach but more the result of a falling away of interest in baroque generally, first by "classical" and later by "romantic" styles of music.

Salieri's lack of preceived greatness down the ages hardly qualifies. As you said, it's "quite good music". That says it all. It simply wasn't good enough to cut it with all the emerging competition. I'm sure you can appreciate that there are limits on the number of composers that audiences can cope with, and naturally they will tend to focus upon the best. This doesn't mean that Salierii was not considered great in his own time, only that better ones came along to replace him. If he is no longer considered "great" there's a good reason for it.

With regard to the various modern composers you mention, most of them appear somewhere in the emerging list of T-C top composers, but I assume they're not placed as highly you personally would like to see them. This simply means that most other people rank them lower than you do, and dfficult though this may be for you to accept it's a fact.

As a rule, the composers who are generally considered to be the greatest today are ones who have consistently been popular down the ages. I would now qualify this by acknowledging the influence of long term changes in broad consumer tastes in general syles of music (baroque versus classical etc). The exceptions are rare with, I guess, possibly Handel being one among them, as his popularity has definitely increased a lot over recent decades.

Therefore, I still maintain that long term popularity of composers is a good indicator of greatness, and that your examples don't affect the situation as they are irrelevant. It may not be the only factor one, but its importance can't be ignored. I'm pretty sure that long term popularity has figured prominently in the selections made by most members in the TC top composers list, especially in the top 20.


----------



## pollux

@pjang23:

may I suggest to close the voting as soon as the top 100 are in? I say this for your own sake and because my participation will end at that point, and I guess others will do the same.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

My participation will end at #157.


----------



## Very Senior Member

MacLeod said:


> .......
> 
> Let me say again that I did not set out to divert the thread off topic, and I did ask if this discussion already existed elsewhere - please redirect me, and those who've made a contribution thus far.
> 
> Thanks


A nice thought but neither this Forum, nor any others I can think of, works like that, if you are contemplating the existence of some kind of previously agreed consensus opinion on what consitutes "classical music".

There are many previous discussions on a wide range of music-related issues but that doesn't tie current discussions in any way. Mostly, previous discussions, even on the hottest topics, become buried very quickly. There was a time when existing members, or perhaps one of moderators, might flag up a previious thread if it seemed to be of relevance, but that rarely happens any more. This is partly because it was found to be a waste of time in practice since the previous threads that were referred to seldom got picked up any further. People generally couldn't be bothered to read them, especially the longer ones, but instead focused attention exclusively on whatever new thread was opened.

Given the maturity of this Forum, there is very unlikely to be any topic that hasn't already been covered. We've had just about about everything imaginable, from slagging off Mozart to endless jokes about Cage's 4'33", lots of Beethoven "fan-boys", Wagner lovers and haters, many threads about whether contemporary music is worth listening to or not, dozens on aspects of under-ratedness and over-ratedness, hundreds of polls etc. You name it, and I bet there is a thread somewhere of relevance. On any of the more contentious topics hardly any consensus emerged. Even if iit did, who cares as it's not going to prevent new member from raising the same old topics and expresing viewpoints of their own, regardless of what others may have said in previous threads of the same topic.

So, for any agreed opinion on the exact scope of "classical music", as reached on this Forum in the past, I'd forget all such notion.


----------



## crmoorhead

science said:


> There might be something to what pjang23 says above. I don't know about it.
> 
> I don't of course mean that pop music never emphasizes the words and neglects the music. I only point all this out because the world remains complicated, and if you're going to successfully box it up you'll have to acknowledge it! But at some point we'll probably have to acknowledge the arbitrariness of our categories.


There are exceptions, sure, but I think that in the case of Eminem or whatever other artist that the intention is that their listeners understand the lyrics. Looking up the lyrics of 'Dust my Broom' it seems pretty obvious that it is about an unhappy relationship and someone's intention to break up. It's not really confusing. 'Dust my broom' is just an expression for starting again. Instrumental pop music is, of course, instrumental music and not a song. I can't say that the words are more important there because there aren't any.  The melody and beat is important in popular music too, but that is straying slightly from what I am trying to say. I am saying that I don't view lieder or art songs as 'classical compositions'. They are part of a songwriting traditon that I see as separate from what I see as classical music but also separate from today's pop market. The inclusion of songs of the era seems to be more one of association with known composers of symphonies, overtures, chamber music etc



> I don't find that to be the case in art song (though I generally do with pop songs). The music is there to bring the text to life by using sound to express things that cannot be expressed in spoken language. For example, this Schubert song uses the piano to depict a river responding to the singer's pleas. Could you think of any way to do that from just reciting the text?


If it were just reading the text, it wouldn't be a song, would it?  The piece that you link to is still a pleasant piece for intimate settings and there is nothing revolutionary about the music. It subtly interacts with the text, possibly, but it is still 'backing music'. It is also the case that Schubert wrote around 600 songs. While you may assert that he does something slightly different with how he uses the music here, how many of the 600 songs is this true for? And how does this apply to songwriters that aren't Schubert? This is why I view songwriting as differing from other composition, even from other works for voice.


----------



## science

On the other hand, pjang23, as long as you'd like this to go on I will be here with you. I wish this discussion would take itself somewhere more appropriate, but whether it does or not I'll be voting every morning.


----------



## crmoorhead

science said:


> On the other hand, pjang23, as long as you'd like this to go on I will be here with you. I wish this discussion would take itself somewhere more appropriate, but whether it does or not I'll be voting every morning.


Yeah, I think wrapping up this discussion would be a good idea. I am also happy to keep on voting, but I am running out of composers that I have heard. I won't be able to participate much further than the 100 mark.


----------



## pollux

10	Schütz
9	Charpentier
8	Dowland
7	Boccherini
6	Alb*é*niz (I'd be happy to see his name correctly written )
5	Wolf
4	Franck
3	Lassus
2	Zelenka
1 Ockeghem

-3	Schnittke


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith
9.	Franck
8.	Walton
7.	Chausson
6.	Glazunov
5.	Boccherini
4.	Albinoni
3.	Arnold
2.	Poulenc
1.	Smetana


----------



## Orpheus

I'll probably keep voting if other people want to continue past 100; I know quite well a number of the composers who are at present propping up the list so there's nothing really stopping me there. I believe many people would find some of them more musically worthwhile than the ones who are placed already, if more actually took the trouble to listen to them. I suspect that the rankings here have at least as much to do with how familiar people are with the composer as the quality of their work, and in some cases a good deal more.  A lot of the ones who are currently languishing on 30 votes or less are very worth listening to!

I have no interest at all in this nitpicking, not particularly on topic, and likely fruitless discussion; personally I'm bored with having to scroll past it in order to look for things which I would find actually enlightening and relevant, such as information and opinions about the lesser- known composers in the list. I wish the mods would move it to a new thread or something, where it would be more appropriate for those who wish to take part.

My vote anyway:

Dowland 10
Dufay 9
Franck 8
Szymanowski 7
Brian 6
Gibbons 5
Rodrigo 4
Hildegard 3
Pachelbel 2
Paganini 1

Stockhausen -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax	+	10
Walton	+	9
Boccherini	+	8
Franck	+	7
Tippet	+	6
Korngold	+	5
Schuman, William	+	4
Poulenc	+	3
Harris	+	2
Korngold	+	1

Varèse	-	3


----------



## Very Senior Member

Orpheus said:


> I have no interest at all in this nitpicking, not particularly on topic, and likely fruitless discussion; personally I'm bored with having to scroll past it in order to look for things which I would find actually enlightening and relevant, such as information and opinions about the lesser- known composers in the list. I wish the mods would move it to a new thread or something, where it would be more appropriate for those who wish to take part.


May I take it from this that you don't have a view on the matter concerning whether or not film music composers may be added to the list?

Perhaps also you don't have a view on whether the likes of Frank Zappa should be allowed to be added?

However, since these questions have been raised specifically it is not perhaps not surprising that some people who have opinions on these matters may wish to express them.

The main thing that I find I'm not interested in is the deluge of video clips that some members are inclined to include in their posts. I never look at any of them.

If you can point me towards any of your posts where you have discussed the merits of some of the lesser- known composers, I would be interested to pursue this but I'm afraid that I missed them.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Penderecki - 10
Crumb - 9
Tveitt - 8
Valen - 7
Hvoslef - 6
Wallin - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Langgaard - 1


----------



## pjang23

We will wrap this up at 100 and give honorable mentions to say the next 50.

10 Franck
9 Chausson
8 Pachelbel
7 Gibbons
6 Cherubini
5 Khachaturian
4 Lassus
3 Dufay
2 Clementi
1 Ockeghem
-3 Alfven

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland - 291
90. Franck - 262
91. Hildegard - 260
92. Wolf - 254
93. Penderecki - 248
94. Walton - 238
95. Smetana - 236
96. Arnold - 233
96. Schütz - 233
98. Rott - 226
99. Hindemith - 220
100. Albéniz - 214
101. Schnittke - 210
102. Varèse - 209
103. Dufay - 208
104. Bax - 206
105. Alfven - 197
106. Boccherini - 196
107. Glazunov - 193
108. Massenet - 184
109. Charpentier - 175
110. Spohr - 149
111. Offenbach - 146
112. Takemitsu - 140
113. Vogelweide - 135
114. Stockhausen - 134
115. Boulez - 132
116. Perotin - 128
116. Szymanowski - 128
118. Brian - 119
119. Poulenc - 117
120. Novak - 114
121. Lassus - 110
122. Crumb - 107
123. Honegger - 105
124. Chausson - 104
125. Zelenka - 102
126. Ockeghem - 101
127. Xenakis - 97
128. Lutoslawski - 93
129. Alkan - 91
129. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
131. Graun - 88
131. Martinu - 88
133. Falla - 85
134. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
135. Cage - 77
136. Alwyn - 75
137. Gombert - 74
138. Medtner - 72
138. Rodrigo - 72
140. Albinoni - 69
141. Korngold - 61
142. Tveitt - 58
143. Paganini - 57
144. Enescu - 54
145. Clementi - 53
145. Gorecki - 53
147. Hasse - 52
147. Piazzolla - 52
147. Tippet - 52
150. Lalo - 51
151. Leifs - 50
152. Kodály - 48
152. Schumann, Clara - 48
154. Gibbons - 46
155. Bach, W.F. - 45
155. Gounod - 45
157. Dussek - 44
158. Cherubini - 41
158. Pachelbel - 41
160. Berio - 40
160. Glinka - 40
162. Weiss - 39
163. Bernstein - 34
164. Barrios - 32
164. Graupner - 32
164. Harbison - 32
167. Khachaturian - 31
167. Milhaud - 31
167. Schuman, William - 31
170. Granados - 30
170. Sorabji - 30
172. Frescobaldi - 28
173. Leonin - 26
173. Locatelli - 26
175. Golijov - 23
175. MacDowell - 23
175. Pergolesi - 23
175. Rubinstein - 23
179. Dukas - 22
179. Farrenc - 22
179. Henze - 22
182. Canteloube - 21
182. Hovhaness - 21
184. Berwald - 20
185. Carter - 19
185. Harris - 19
187. Allegri - 18
188. Arensky - 17
188. Balakirev - 17
188. Mompou - 17
188. Vierne - 17
192. D'Indy - 16
192. Ries - 16
192. Skalkottas - 16
192. Zemlinsky - 16
196. Parry - 15
196. Weinberg - 15
198. Abel - 14
198. Hartmann - 14
198. Wohlfahrt - 14
198. Zimmerman - 14
202. Gubaidulina - 13
202. Reger - 13
204. Stamitz - 12
205. Marcello - 11
206. Beach - 10
206. Binchois - 10
206. Bridge - 10
206. Landini - 10
206. Quantz - 10
206. Rudland - 10
212. Holmboe - 9
212. Krommer - 9
212. Widor - 9
215. Ferneyhough - 8
215. Heinichen - 8
215. Nyman - 8
215. Pettersson - 8
215. Schreker - 8
215. Sor - 8
221. Couperin, Louis - 7
221. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
221. Valen - 7
221. Wyschnegradsky - 7
225. Campra - 6
225. Eberl - 6
225. Froberger - 6
225. Fux - 6
225. Hvoslef - 6
225. Ireland - 6
225. Meyerbeer - 6
232. Cavalli - 5
232. Janequin - 5
232. Torelli - 5
232. Veress - 5
232. Wallin - 5
232. Wieniawski - 5
238. Bloch - 4
238. Brouwer - 4
238. Danzi - 4
238. Guerrero - 4
238. Krenek - 4
238. Mathieu - 4
238. Sarasate - 4
245. Arriaga - 3
245. De Morales - 3
245. Langgaard - 3
248. Czerny - 2
248. Da Milano - 2
248. Fasch - 2
248. Gerhard - 2
248. Marais - 2
248. Myaskovsky - 2
254. Catan - 1
254. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
254. Monti - 1
254. Ponce - 1
254. Sanz - 1
254. Strauss I, Johann - 1
254. Strauss, Josef - 1
254. Weill - 1
254. Ysaÿe - 1
263. Ullmann - -6
264. Schobert - -25


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Penderecki
9 Stockhausen
8 Xenakis
7 Bax
6 Hindemith


----------



## Guest

Very Senior Member said:


> A nice thought but neither this Forum, nor any others I can think of, works like that, if you are contemplating the existence of some kind of previously agreed consensus opinion on what consitutes "classical music". [...]
> So, for any agreed opinion on the exact scope of "classical music", as reached on this Forum in the past, I'd forget all such notion.


No wasn't looking for an agreed consensus, just a thread that had recently covered similar terrain, but I can see that this is a larger forum than I've belonged to, and a quicker turnover of topics leads, as you say, to a quicker forgetting of things said before.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Sylvius Leopold Weiss = +10
François Couperin = +9
Ferdinand Ries = +8
Louis Spohr = +7
Jules Massenet = +6
Carl Stamitz = +5
Luigi Boccherini = +4
Jan Ladislav Dussek = +3
Carl Heinrich Graun = +2
Johann Friedrich Fasch = +1

Edgard Varèse = -3


----------



## Turangalîla

Hildegarde - 10
Mompou - 9 (I think that he deserves an honourable mention)
Poulenc - 8
Varese - 7
Crumb - 6
Penderecki - 5


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Schutz
8 Hindemith
-3 Arnold


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> We will wrap this up at 100 and give honorable mentions to say the next 50.


Well then, thanks for your work.


----------



## science

This vote was counted, so I'll leave it as it was! 


10 Enescu
9 Clementi
8 Kodaly
7 Lalo
6 Gonoud
5 Cherubini
4 Piazzolla
-3 Tippet


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Graun, C.H. · 5
Albinoni · 4
Charpentier · 3
Takemitsu · 2
Weill · 1


Vincenzo Rondo di Menuetto · -3


----------



## science

I think the honorary mention should be given up to spot #200 rather than 150. There are a lot of very fine and famous composers who are in between #150 and #200.


----------



## pjang23

science said:


> I think the honorary mention should be given up to spot #200 rather than 150. There are a lot of very fine and famous composers who are in between #150 and #200.


Yeah lots of good composers in that range too. It's just that the orderings are meaningless in that part of the list. I could keep an ordered list of the runners-up and an alphabetical list of the rest with a positive score (or just do all alphabetical).


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Dowland (now in) 
8. Charpentier
7. Schnittke
6. Schutz
5. Guibaidulina
4. Hildegard
3. Rodrigo
2. Weiss
1. Walton


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> Yeah lots of good composers in that range too. It's just that the orderings are meaningless in that part of the list. I could keep an ordered list of the runners-up and an alphabetical list of the rest with a positive score (or just do all alphabetical).


I don't mind however you do it. I'm not sure how meaningful the order is with something like this; I'd say the approximate location of the composer is more significant than his (or her, in a few cases!) actual location. So, being #13 is not very significant, but it can reliably be taken to mean something like, "not top 5, but could be top 10, probably top 15, surely top 25." I suppose it just means I believe in an error bar....

The composers' approximate presence on the list is more important than their actual orderings. Something like this: Bach or Beethoven were probably going to be #1, the loser and Mozart were probably going to be #2-3; Brahms, Schubert, Wagner were probably going to be around #2-7; Handel, Schumann, Debussy, Dvorak, Haydn, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky were probably going to be #5-15; Mendelssohn, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, R. Strauss, Bartok, Verdi were probably going to be #10-25; and so on. So, a list where Bach and Beethoven didn't make the top three would be surprising; a list where Bartok was in the top three would be surprising. That's what we can take from it.

With that in mind, one thing you might consider is doing it alphabetically, but breaking that up, so listing "the next 50" alphabetically, then "the next fifty" alphabetically, and so on.

I was assuming "honorary mention" would be unranked, such as alphabetically.


----------



## Rapide

Boulez 10
Varese -3


----------



## pjang23

Current Results: Dowland is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard - 274
91. Penderecki - 263
92. Franck - 262
92. Wolf - 262
94. Schütz - 248
95. Smetana - 246
96. Walton - 239
97. Rott - 235
98. Hindemith - 234
99. Arnold - 230
100. Albéniz - 224
101. Varèse - 220
102. Schnittke - 217
103. Bax - 213
104. Dufay - 208
105. Boccherini - 200
106. Alfven - 197
107. Glazunov - 193
108. Massenet - 190
109. Charpentier - 186
110. Spohr - 156
111. Offenbach - 146
112. Stockhausen - 143
113. Boulez - 142
113. Takemitsu - 142
113. Vogelweide - 142
116. Perotin - 128
116. Szymanowski - 128
118. Poulenc - 125
119. Brian - 119
120. Novak - 114
121. Crumb - 113
122. Lassus - 110
123. Honegger - 105
123. Xenakis - 105
125. Chausson - 104
126. Zelenka - 102
127. Ockeghem - 101
128. Graun - 95
129. Lutoslawski - 93
130. Alkan - 91
130. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
132. Martinu - 88
133. Falla - 85
134. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
135. Cage - 77
136. Alwyn - 75
136. Rodrigo - 75
138. Gombert - 74
139. Albinoni - 73
140. Medtner - 72
141. Enescu - 64
142. Clementi - 62
143. Korngold - 61
144. Lalo - 58
144. Tveitt - 58
146. Paganini - 57
147. Kodály - 56
147. Piazzolla - 56
149. Gorecki - 53
150. Hasse - 52
151. Gounod - 51
151. Weiss - 51
153. Leifs - 50
154. Tippet - 49
155. Schumann, Clara - 48
156. Dussek - 47
156. Pachelbel - 47
158. Cherubini - 46
158. Gibbons - 46
160. Bach, W.F. - 45
161. Berio - 40
161. Glinka - 40
163. Bernstein - 34
164. Barrios - 32
164. Graupner - 32
164. Harbison - 32
167. Khachaturian - 31
167. Milhaud - 31
167. Schuman, William - 31
170. Granados - 30
170. Sorabji - 30
172. Frescobaldi - 28
173. Leonin - 26
173. Locatelli - 26
173. Mompou - 26
176. Ries - 24
177. Golijov - 23
177. MacDowell - 23
177. Pergolesi - 23
177. Rubinstein - 23
181. Dukas - 22
181. Farrenc - 22
181. Henze - 22
184. Canteloube - 21
184. Hovhaness - 21
186. Berwald - 20
187. Carter - 19
187. Harris - 19
189. Allegri - 18
189. Gubaidulina - 18
191. Arensky - 17
191. Balakirev - 17
191. Stamitz - 17
191. Vierne - 17
195. D'Indy - 16
195. Skalkottas - 16
195. Zemlinsky - 16
198. Parry - 15
198. Weinberg - 15
200. Abel - 14
200. Hartmann - 14
200. Wohlfahrt - 14
200. Zimmerman - 14
204. Reger - 13
205. Marcello - 11
206. Beach - 10
206. Binchois - 10
206. Bridge - 10
206. Landini - 10
206. Quantz - 10
206. Rudland - 10
212. Holmboe - 9
212. Krommer - 9
212. Widor - 9
215. Ferneyhough - 8
215. Heinichen - 8
215. Nyman - 8
215. Pettersson - 8
215. Schreker - 8
215. Sor - 8
221. Couperin, Louis - 7
221. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
221. Valen - 7
221. Wyschnegradsky - 7
225. Campra - 6
225. Eberl - 6
225. Froberger - 6
225. Fux - 6
225. Hvoslef - 6
225. Ireland - 6
225. Meyerbeer - 6
232. Cavalli - 5
232. Janequin - 5
232. Torelli - 5
232. Veress - 5
232. Wallin - 5
232. Wieniawski - 5
238. Bloch - 4
238. Brouwer - 4
238. Danzi - 4
238. Guerrero - 4
238. Krenek - 4
238. Mathieu - 4
238. Sarasate - 4
245. Arriaga - 3
245. De Morales - 3
245. Fasch - 3
245. Langgaard - 3
249. Czerny - 2
249. Da Milano - 2
249. Gerhard - 2
249. Marais - 2
249. Myaskovsky - 2
249. Weill - 2
255. Catan - 1
255. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
255. Monti - 1
255. Ponce - 1
255. Sanz - 1
255. Strauss I, Johann - 1
255. Strauss, Josef - 1
255. Ysaÿe - 1
263. Ullmann - -6
264. Schobert - -25


----------



## pollux

10	Charpentier
9	Schütz
8	Albéniz
7	Boccherini
6	Hindemith
5	Wolf
4	Franck
3	Falla
2	Lassus
1	Zelenka

-3	Schnittke


----------



## Very Senior Member

science said:


> I don't mind however you do it. I'm not sure how meaningful the order is with something like this; I'd say the approximate location of the composer is more significant than his (or her, in a few cases!) actual location. So, being #13 is not very significant, but it can reliably be taken to mean something like, "not top 5, but could be top 10, probably top 15, surely top 25." I suppose it just means I believe in an error bar....
> 
> The composers' approximate presence on the list is more important than their actual orderings. Something like this: Bach or Beethoven were probably going to be #1, the loser and Mozart were probably going to be #2-3; Brahms, Schubert, Wagner were probably going to be around #2-7; Handel, Schumann, Debussy, Dvorak, Haydn, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky were probably going to be #5-15; Mendelssohn, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, R. Strauss, Bartok, Verdi were probably going to be #10-25; and so on. So, a list where Bach and Beethoven didn't make the top three would be surprising; a list where Bartok was in the top three would be surprising. That's what we can take from it.
> 
> With that in mind, one thing you might consider is doing it alphabetically, but breaking that up, so listing "the next 50" alphabetically, then "the next fifty" alphabetically, and so on.
> 
> I was assuming "honorary mention" would be unranked, such as alphabetically.


I broadly agree with this but would go further.

Even if we had a much larger sample of voters, I strongly suspect that the individual ranks above around No 10 would have such wide confidence limits that they are worthless.

I think it's virtually impossible to do any ranking beyond about position 25 because I don't believe that the classical music appreciating public is able to distinguish ranks this far down the list, as they all blur together far too much.

We should have stopped at position No 50, like I suggested long ago.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Are we stopping at #100? We should. Nice round number. Has an authoritative stamp about it. I shall then print out our top 100 and frame it up, in gold guilded Baroque frame.


----------



## science

Very Senior Member said:


> I broadly agree with this but would go further.
> 
> Even if we had a much larger sample of voters, I strongly suspect that the individual ranks above around No 10 would have such wide confidence limits that they are worthless.
> 
> I think it's virtually impossible to do any ranking beyond about position 25 because *I don't believe that the classical music appreciating public is able to distinguish ranks this far down the list*, as they all blur together far too much.
> 
> We should have stopped at position No 50, like I suggested long ago.


I'm not sure it matters. It's interesting to me to see what we (the particular folks here who bother to participate) prefer.


----------



## Cygnenoir

Penderecki - 10
Crumb - 9
Tveitt - 8
Valen - 7
Hvoslef - 6
Wallin - 5
Takemitsu - 4
Poulenc - 3
Brian - 2
Langgaard - 1


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Glazunov
9. Honneger
8. Cage
7. Falla
6. Cherubini
5. Korngold
4. Arnold
3. Gorecki
2. Bernstein
1. Dukas

I'm agreed with the honorable mentions not being ranked.


----------



## Morgante

J.S. Bach - 10
Mozart - 9
Beethoven - 8
Puccini - 7
Albinoni - 6
Tchaikovsky - 5
Ravel - 4
Stravinsky - 3
Mahler - 2
Chopin - 1


----------



## Carpenoctem

Morgante said:


> J.S. Bach - 10
> Mozart - 9
> Beethoven - 8
> Puccini - 7
> Albinoni - 6
> Tchaikovsky - 5
> Ravel - 4
> Stravinsky - 3
> Mahler - 2
> Chopin - 1


You can't vote for Bach, Mozart etc. they are already on the list, you can only vote for those composers who still have points right next to their name


----------



## Morgante

Carpenoctem said:


> You can't vote for Bach, Mozart etc. they are already on the list, you can only vote for those composers who still have points right next to their name


Thank you Carpenoctem, sorry for my error, this is the new list:

Albinoni - 10
Albeniz - 9
Rodrigo - 8
Smetana - 7
Balakirev - 6
Rota - 5
Kalinnikov - 4
Paganini - 3
Suk - 2
Enescu - 1


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Hildegard +10
2. Boccherini +9
3. Offenbach +8
4. Zelenka +7
5. Massenet +6
6. Korngold +5
7. Perotin+4
8. Schütz +3
9. Dufay +2
10. Charpentier +1

Varèse -3


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith
9.	Franck
8.	Walton
7.	Chausson
6.	Glazunov
5.	Boccherini
4.	Albinoni
3.	Arnold
2.	Poulenc
1.	Smetana


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Stockhausen
9 Xenakis
8 Varese
7 Hildegard


----------



## beetzart

10 Clementi
9 Dussek
8 Czerny
7 Bach W F
6 Albinoni
5 Paganini


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax	+	10
Walton	+	9
Boccherini	+	8
Spohr	+	7
Poulenc	+	6
Szymanowski	+	5
Smetana	+	4
Arnold	+	3
Franck	+	2
Hildegard of Bingen +	1

Varèse	-	3


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Luigi Boccherini = +10
Louis Spohr = +9
Jules Massenet = +8
Tomaso Albinoni = +7
Marc-Antoine Charpentier = +6
Carl Stamitz = +5
Johann Adolph Hasse = +4
Jan Ladislav Dussek = +3
Carl Heinrich Graun = +2
Johann Friedrich Fasch = +1

Edgard Varèse = -3


----------



## pjang23

10 Perotin
9 Franck
8 Hildegard
7 Glazunov
6 Chausson
5 Gibbons
4 Medtner
3 Dufay
2 Alkan
1 Pergolesi
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Hildegard is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard
91. Franck - 286
92. Penderecki - 273
93. Wolf - 267
94. Schütz - 260
95. Smetana - 258
96. Walton - 256
97. Hindemith - 250
98. Albéniz - 241
99. Boccherini - 239
100. Arnold - 237
101. Rott - 235
102. Bax - 223
103. Varèse - 219
104. Glazunov - 216
105. Schnittke - 214
106. Dufay - 213
107. Massenet - 204
108. Charpentier - 203
109. Alfven - 197
110. Spohr - 172
111. Offenbach - 154
112. Stockhausen - 153
113. Takemitsu - 146
114. Boulez - 142
114. Perotin - 142
114. Vogelweide - 142
117. Poulenc - 136
118. Szymanowski - 133
119. Crumb - 122
120. Brian - 121
121. Chausson - 117
122. Honegger - 114
122. Novak - 114
122. Xenakis - 114
125. Lassus - 112
126. Zelenka - 110
127. Ockeghem - 101
128. Albinoni - 100
129. Graun - 97
130. Falla - 95
131. Alkan - 93
131. Lutoslawski - 93
133. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
134. Martinu - 88
135. Cage - 85
136. Rodrigo - 83
137. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
138. Medtner - 76
139. Alwyn - 75
140. Gombert - 74
141. Clementi - 72
142. Korngold - 71
143. Tveitt - 66
144. Enescu - 65
144. Paganini - 65
146. Dussek - 59
147. Lalo - 58
148. Gorecki - 56
148. Hasse - 56
148. Kodály - 56
148. Piazzolla - 56
152. Bach, W.F. - 52
152. Cherubini - 52
154. Gibbons - 51
154. Gounod - 51
154. Weiss - 51
157. Leifs - 50
158. Tippet - 49
159. Schumann, Clara - 48
160. Pachelbel - 47
161. Berio - 40
161. Glinka - 40
163. Bernstein - 36
164. Barrios - 32
164. Graupner - 32
164. Harbison - 32
167. Khachaturian - 31
167. Milhaud - 31
167. Schuman, William - 31
170. Granados - 30
170. Sorabji - 30
172. Frescobaldi - 28
173. Leonin - 26
173. Locatelli - 26
173. Mompou - 26
176. Pergolesi - 24
176. Ries - 24
178. Balakirev - 23
178. Dukas - 23
178. Golijov - 23
178. MacDowell - 23
178. Rubinstein - 23
183. Farrenc - 22
183. Henze - 22
183. Stamitz - 22
186. Canteloube - 21
186. Hovhaness - 21
188. Berwald - 20
189. Carter - 19
189. Harris - 19
191. Allegri - 18
191. Gubaidulina - 18
193. Arensky - 17
193. Vierne - 17
195. D'Indy - 16
195. Skalkottas - 16
195. Zemlinsky - 16
198. Parry - 15
198. Weinberg - 15
200. Abel - 14
200. Hartmann - 14
200. Valen - 14
200. Wohlfahrt - 14
200. Zimmerman - 14
205. Reger - 13
206. Hvoslef - 12
207. Marcello - 11
208. Beach - 10
208. Binchois - 10
208. Bridge - 10
208. Czerny - 10
208. Landini - 10
208. Quantz - 10
208. Rudland - 10
208. Wallin - 10
216. Holmboe - 9
216. Krommer - 9
216. Widor - 9
219. Ferneyhough - 8
219. Heinichen - 8
219. Nyman - 8
219. Pettersson - 8
219. Schreker - 8
219. Sor - 8
225. Couperin, Louis - 7
225. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
225. Wyschnegradsky - 7
228. Campra - 6
228. Eberl - 6
228. Froberger - 6
228. Fux - 6
228. Ireland - 6
228. Meyerbeer - 6
234. Cavalli - 5
234. Janequin - 5
234. Torelli - 5
234. Veress - 5
234. Wieniawski - 5
239. Bloch - 4
239. Brouwer - 4
239. Danzi - 4
239. Fasch - 4
239. Guerrero - 4
239. Kalinnikov - 4
239. Krenek - 4
239. Langgaard - 4
239. Mathieu - 4
239. Sarasate - 4
249. Arriaga - 3
249. De Morales - 3
251. Da Milano - 2
251. Gerhard - 2
251. Marais - 2
251. Myaskovsky - 2
251. Suk - 2
251. Weill - 2
257. Catan - 1
257. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
257. Monti - 1
257. Ponce - 1
257. Sanz - 1
257. Strauss I, Johann - 1
257. Strauss, Josef - 1
257. Ysaÿe - 1
265. Ullmann - -6
266. Schobert - -25


----------



## science

10 Varese
9 Binhois
8 Reger
7 Cherubini
6 Piazzolla
5 Kodaly 
4 Weill
3 Catan 
2 Suk
1 Guerrero 
-3 Hasse


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Honegger
8 Hindemith
7 Schutz
-3 Arnold


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9 (needs to make the top 100, otherwise he will have died for nothing; making the TC top 100 was his main priority in life)
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Graun, C.H. · 5
Albinoni · 4
Charpentier · 3
Takemitsu · 2
Weill · 1


Xhi Minh Xu's abandoned, unnamed child · -3


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Schutz
8. Charpentier
7. Schnittke
6. Weiss
5. Takemitsu
4. Rodrigo
3. Zelenka
2. Falla
1. Szymanowski


----------



## Rapide

Massenet 10
Charpentier 9
Offenbach 8
L. Couperin 7
Rubinstein 6



Varese -3


----------



## Vaneyes

10 Khachaturian
9 Schnittke
8 Enescu
7 Lutoslawski
6 Gubaidulina
5 Carter
4 Honegger
3 Szymanowski
2 Berio
1 Hindemith


----------



## Orpheus

Very Senior Member said:


> May I take it from this that you don't have a view on the matter concerning whether or not film music composers may be added to the list?
> 
> Perhaps also you don't have a view on whether the likes of Frank Zappa should be allowed to be added?


That's right, it really doesn't matter to me. I'd have been perhaps a little disappointed in the judgment of the TC members if those composers ended up ranking highly in the final count, but I don't think they were ever that likely to unless someone started voting them up merely to be contentious. Had they done so it would have reflected more on their personal taste and maturity (or the lack of it) than the merits or demerits of the particular composer, however. I don't think this sort of list is ever going to have any pretensions to authority, so much as being a collective representation of what the members of this site enjoy (or at least, of the members who get round to taking part regularly, which in itself says something about their passion for the particular composers they take the trouble to vote for).



Very Senior Member said:


> If you can point me towards any of your posts where you have discussed the merits of some of the lesser- known composers, I would be interested to pursue this but I'm afraid that I missed them.


Well, I'm not quite sure how this relates to my preferring not to see that particular discusson going on for so long in this thread, but it's always nice to see people who are interested in expanding their horizons! I remember posting on Barrios, Vierne, and Rodrigo of modern composers, and have also made a few posts on Medieval and Renaissance music and its composers. I don't know if you are interested in any of these, but if you are, you're welcome to look at my post history; they shouldn't be too difficult to find in the relatively small number of posts I have so far.



DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Rott · 9 (needs to make the top 100, otherwise he will have died for nothing; making the TC top 100 was his main priority in life)


I can just see his unquiet grave beginning to vibrate with agitation at the mere premonition...

Dufay 10
Szymanowski 9
Brian 8
Barrios 7
Gibbons 6
Sorabji 5
Franck 4
Sor 3
Mompou 2
Meyerbeer 1

Stockhausen -3


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Boccherini +10
2. Schütz +9
3. Dufay +8
4. Zelenka +7
5. Offenbach +6
6. Perotin +5
7. Massenet +4
8. Korngold +3
9. Charpentier +2
10. Tomaso Albinoni +1

Varese -3


----------



## Turangalîla

Varese - 10
Mompou - 9
Stockhausen - 8
Penderecki - 7
Poulenc - 6
Berwald - 5


----------



## pjang23

Current Results:

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard
91. Franck - 290
92. Schütz - 285
93. Penderecki - 280
94. Wolf - 275
95. Smetana - 268
96. Hindemith - 259
97. Walton - 256
98. Albéniz - 251
99. Boccherini - 249
100. Rott - 244
101. Varèse - 243
102. Arnold - 234
103. Dufay - 231
104. Schnittke - 230
105. Charpentier - 225
106. Bax - 223
107. Massenet - 218
108. Glazunov - 216
109. Alfven - 197
110. Spohr - 172
111. Offenbach - 168
112. Stockhausen - 158
113. Takemitsu - 153
114. Vogelweide - 149
115. Perotin - 147
116. Szymanowski - 146
117. Boulez - 142
117. Poulenc - 142
119. Brian - 129
120. Honegger - 127
121. Crumb - 122
122. Zelenka - 120
123. Chausson - 117
124. Novak - 114
124. Xenakis - 114
126. Lassus - 112
127. Albinoni - 105
128. Graun - 102
129. Ockeghem - 101
130. Lutoslawski - 100
131. Falla - 97
132. Alkan - 93
133. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
134. Martinu - 88
135. Rodrigo - 87
136. Cage - 85
137. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
138. Medtner - 76
139. Alwyn - 75
140. Gombert - 74
140. Korngold - 74
142. Enescu - 73
143. Clementi - 72
144. Tveitt - 66
145. Paganini - 65
146. Piazzolla - 62
147. Kodály - 61
148. Cherubini - 59
148. Dussek - 59
150. Lalo - 58
151. Gibbons - 57
151. Weiss - 57
153. Gorecki - 56
154. Hasse - 53
154. Pachelbel - 53
156. Bach, W.F. - 52
157. Gounod - 51
158. Leifs - 50
159. Tippet - 49
160. Schumann, Clara - 48
161. Berio - 42
162. Khachaturian - 41
163. Glinka - 40
164. Barrios - 39
165. Mompou - 37
166. Bernstein - 36
167. Sorabji - 35
168. Graupner - 32
168. Harbison - 32
170. Milhaud - 31
170. Schuman, William - 31
172. Granados - 30
173. Rubinstein - 29
174. Frescobaldi - 28
175. Leonin - 26
175. Locatelli - 26
177. Berwald - 25
178. Carter - 24
178. Gubaidulina - 24
178. Pergolesi - 24
178. Ries - 24
182. Balakirev - 23
182. Dukas - 23
182. Golijov - 23
182. MacDowell - 23
186. Farrenc - 22
186. Henze - 22
186. Stamitz - 22
189. Canteloube - 21
189. Hovhaness - 21
189. Reger - 21
192. Binchois - 19
192. Harris - 19
194. Allegri - 18
195. Arensky - 17
195. Vierne - 17
197. D'Indy - 16
197. Skalkottas - 16
197. Zemlinsky - 16
200. Parry - 15
200. Weinberg - 15
202. Abel - 14
202. Couperin, Louis - 14
202. Hartmann - 14
202. Valen - 14
202. Wohlfahrt - 14
202. Zimmerman - 14
208. Hvoslef - 12
209. Marcello - 11
209. Sor - 11
211. Beach - 10
211. Bridge - 10
211. Czerny - 10
211. Landini - 10
211. Quantz - 10
211. Rudland - 10
211. Wallin - 10
218. Holmboe - 9
218. Krommer - 9
218. Widor - 9
221. Ferneyhough - 8
221. Heinichen - 8
221. Nyman - 8
221. Pettersson - 8
221. Schreker - 8
226. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
226. Meyerbeer - 7
226. Weill - 7
226. Wyschnegradsky - 7
230. Campra - 6
230. Eberl - 6
230. Froberger - 6
230. Fux - 6
230. Ireland - 6
235. Cavalli - 5
235. Guerrero - 5
235. Janequin - 5
235. Torelli - 5
235. Veress - 5
235. Wieniawski - 5
241. Bloch - 4
241. Brouwer - 4
241. Catan - 4
241. Danzi - 4
241. Fasch - 4
241. Kalinnikov - 4
241. Krenek - 4
241. Langgaard - 4
241. Mathieu - 4
241. Sarasate - 4
241. Suk - 4
252. Arriaga - 3
252. De Morales - 3
254. Da Milano - 2
254. Gerhard - 2
254. Marais - 2
254. Myaskovsky - 2
258. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
258. Monti - 1
258. Ponce - 1
258. Sanz - 1
258. Strauss I, Johann - 1
258. Strauss, Josef - 1
258. Ysaÿe - 1
265. Ullmann - -6
266. Schobert - -25


----------



## pollux

10	Charpentier
9	Albéniz
8	Schütz
7	Lassus
6	Falla
5	Graupner
4	Kodály
3	Lutoslawski
2	Ockeghem
1	Martinu

-3 Varèse


----------



## crmoorhead

10. Glazunov
9. Honneger
8. Cage
7. Falla
6. Cherubini
5. Korngold
4. Arnold
3. Gorecki
2. Bernstein
1. Dukas


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Franck
9.	Hindemith
8.	Walton
7.	Chausson
6.	Glazunov
5.	Boccherini
4.	Albinoni
3.	Arnold
2.	Poulenc
1.	Smetana

I believe Franck is now in.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Penderecki
9 Varese

-3 Rott


----------



## beetzart

Clementi +10
Dussek +9
Czerny +8
WF Bach +7
Paganini +6


----------



## Very Senior Member

No point bothering with all those well below 100 as they only going to be listed.

Therefore:

Bax	+	10
Arnold	+	9
Walton	+	8

Rott	-	3


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Hindemith
8 Schutz
7 Honegger
-3 Rott

Rott did compose one masterpiece, but I don't think that qualifies him for the top 100.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Boccherini = +10
Spohr = +9
Charpentier = +8
Massenet = +7
Zelenka = +6
Albinoni = +5
Graun = +4

Vacuous-Varèse = -3


----------



## EricABQ

I wonder if there is anyone who could whistle 1 melody from each composer on that list from memory. It would be a neat party trick if anyone could.


----------



## science

10 Lalo
8 Cherubini
7 Kodaly
6 Piazzolla
5 Paganini 
4 Clementi
3 Enescu
2 Gombert
1 D'Indy
-3 Tveitt


----------



## pjang23

10 Perotin
9 Leonin
8 Dufay
7 Lassus
6 Glazunov
5 Medtner
4 Alkan
3 Ockeghem
2 Cherubini
1 Zelenka
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Franck and Schutz are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard
91. Franck
92. Schütz
93. Penderecki - 290
94. Hindemith - 277
95. Wolf - 275
96. Walton - 272
97. Smetana - 269
98. Boccherini - 264
99. Albéniz - 260
100. Varèse - 256
101. Arnold - 247
102. Charpentier - 243
103. Dufay - 239
104. Glazunov - 238
104. Rott - 238
106. Bax - 233
107. Schnittke - 230
108. Massenet - 225
109. Alfven - 197
110. Spohr - 181
111. Offenbach - 168
112. Stockhausen - 158
113. Perotin - 157
114. Takemitsu - 153
115. Vogelweide - 149
116. Szymanowski - 146
117. Poulenc - 144
118. Honegger - 143
119. Boulez - 142
120. Brian - 129
121. Zelenka - 127
122. Lassus - 126
123. Chausson - 124
124. Crumb - 122
125. Albinoni - 114
125. Novak - 114
125. Xenakis - 114
128. Falla - 110
129. Graun - 106
129. Ockeghem - 106
131. Lutoslawski - 103
132. Alkan - 97
133. Cage - 93
134. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
135. Martinu - 89
136. Rodrigo - 87
137. Clementi - 86
138. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
139. Medtner - 81
140. Korngold - 79
141. Enescu - 76
141. Gombert - 76
141. Paganini - 76
144. Alwyn - 75
144. Cherubini - 75
146. Kodály - 72
147. Dussek - 68
147. Lalo - 68
147. Piazzolla - 68
150. Tveitt - 63
151. Bach, W.F. - 59
151. Gorecki - 59
153. Gibbons - 57
153. Weiss - 57
155. Hasse - 53
155. Pachelbel - 53
157. Gounod - 51
158. Leifs - 50
159. Tippet - 49
160. Schumann, Clara - 48
161. Berio - 42
162. Khachaturian - 41
163. Glinka - 40
164. Barrios - 39
165. Bernstein - 38
166. Graupner - 37
166. Mompou - 37
168. Leonin - 35
168. Sorabji - 35
170. Harbison - 32
171. Milhaud - 31
171. Schuman, William - 31
173. Granados - 30
174. Rubinstein - 29
175. Frescobaldi - 28
176. Locatelli - 26
177. Berwald - 25
178. Carter - 24
178. Dukas - 24
178. Gubaidulina - 24
178. Pergolesi - 24
178. Ries - 24
183. Balakirev - 23
183. Golijov - 23
183. MacDowell - 23
186. Farrenc - 22
186. Henze - 22
186. Stamitz - 22
189. Canteloube - 21
189. Hovhaness - 21
189. Reger - 21
192. Binchois - 19
192. Harris - 19
194. Allegri - 18
194. Czerny - 18
196. Arensky - 17
196. D'Indy - 17
196. Vierne - 17
199. Skalkottas - 16
199. Zemlinsky - 16
201. Parry - 15
201. Weinberg - 15
203. Abel - 14
203. Couperin, Louis - 14
203. Hartmann - 14
203. Valen - 14
203. Wohlfahrt - 14
203. Zimmerman - 14
209. Hvoslef - 12
210. Marcello - 11
210. Sor - 11
212. Beach - 10
212. Bridge - 10
212. Landini - 10
212. Quantz - 10
212. Rudland - 10
212. Wallin - 10
218. Holmboe - 9
218. Krommer - 9
218. Widor - 9
221. Ferneyhough - 8
221. Heinichen - 8
221. Nyman - 8
221. Pettersson - 8
221. Schreker - 8
226. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
226. Meyerbeer - 7
226. Weill - 7
226. Wyschnegradsky - 7
230. Campra - 6
230. Eberl - 6
230. Froberger - 6
230. Fux - 6
230. Ireland - 6
235. Cavalli - 5
235. Guerrero - 5
235. Janequin - 5
235. Torelli - 5
235. Veress - 5
235. Wieniawski - 5
241. Bloch - 4
241. Brouwer - 4
241. Catan - 4
241. Danzi - 4
241. Fasch - 4
241. Kalinnikov - 4
241. Krenek - 4
241. Langgaard - 4
241. Mathieu - 4
241. Sarasate - 4
241. Suk - 4
252. Arriaga - 3
252. De Morales - 3
254. Da Milano - 2
254. Gerhard - 2
254. Marais - 2
254. Myaskovsky - 2
258. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
258. Monti - 1
258. Ponce - 1
258. Sanz - 1
258. Strauss I, Johann - 1
258. Strauss, Josef - 1
258. Ysaÿe - 1
265. Ullmann - -6
266. Schobert - -25


----------



## Rapide

10 Smetana
9 Charpentier
8 Boulez
7 Massenet
6 Boccherini
5 Takemitsu

-3 Varese


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

1. Boccherini +10
2. Wolf +9
3. Offenbach +8
4. Dufay +7
5. Charpentier +6
6. Massenet +5
7. Zelenka +4
8. Korngold +3
9. Daniel Catan +2
10. Sylvius Weiss +1

Varèse -3

(Varèse' wife, on the other hand, was a great translator of the poems of Rimbaud)


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Smetana · 10
Rott · 9
Wolf · 8
von der Vogelweide · 7
Pachelbel · 6
Graun, C.H. · 5
Albinoni · 4
Charpentier · 3
Takemitsu · 2
Weill · 1


Don Pedroso Pizzicato-Müllermilch · -3


----------



## tdc

10. Albeniz
9. Schnittke
8. Rodrigo
7. Charpentier
6. Weiss
5. Brian
4. Piazolla
3. Takemitsu
2. Sor
1. Tarrega


----------



## pollux

10	Charpentier
9	Dufay
8	Falla
7	Albéniz
6	Weiss
5	Martinu
4	Xenakis
3	Lassus
2	Zelenka
1	Pachelbel

-3 Varèse I like him very much, but there are greater composers in the fight


----------



## Cygnenoir

Penderecki - 10
Crumb - 9
Takemitsu - 8
Poulenc - 7
Brian - 6
Langgaard - 5
Tveitt - 4
Valen - 3
Hvoslef - 2
Wallin - 1


----------



## mmsbls

10.	Hindemith
9.	Walton
8.	Chausson
7.	Glazunov
6.	Boccherini
5.	Albinoni
4.	Arnold
3.	Poulenc
2.	Cherubini
1.	Smetana


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10 Varese
9 Stockhausen

-3 Albeniz


----------



## Very Senior Member

Bax + 10
Arnold + 9
Walton + 8

Varese - 3


----------



## pjang23

10 Perotin
9 Dufay
8 Glazunov
7 Lassus
6 Chausson
5 Charpentier
4 Khachaturian
3 Taneyev
2 Zelenka
1 Suk
-3 Arnold

Current Results: Penderecki is in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard
91. Franck
92. Schütz
93. Penderecki
94. Wolf - 292
95. Smetana - 290
96. Walton - 289
97. Hindemith - 287
98. Boccherini - 286
99. Charpentier - 283
100. Albéniz - 274
101. Dufay - 264
102. Arnold - 257
103. Varèse - 254
104. Glazunov - 253
105. Rott - 247
106. Bax - 243
107. Schnittke - 239
108. Massenet - 237
109. Alfven - 197
110. Spohr - 181
111. Offenbach - 176
112. Takemitsu - 171
113. Perotin - 167
113. Stockhausen - 167
115. Vogelweide - 156
116. Poulenc - 154
117. Boulez - 150
118. Szymanowski - 146
119. Honegger - 143
120. Brian - 140
121. Chausson - 138
122. Lassus - 136
123. Zelenka - 135
124. Crumb - 131
125. Albinoni - 123
126. Falla - 118
126. Xenakis - 118
128. Novak - 114
129. Graun - 111
130. Ockeghem - 106
131. Lutoslawski - 103
132. Alkan - 97
133. Rodrigo - 95
134. Martinu - 94
135. Cage - 93
136. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
137. Clementi - 86
138. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
138. Korngold - 82
140. Medtner - 81
141. Cherubini - 77
142. Enescu - 76
142. Gombert - 76
142. Paganini - 76
145. Alwyn - 75
146. Kodály - 72
146. Piazzolla - 72
148. Weiss - 70
149. Dussek - 68
149. Lalo - 68
151. Tveitt - 67
152. Pachelbel - 60
153. Bach, W.F. - 59
153. Gorecki - 59
155. Gibbons - 57
156. Hasse - 53
157. Gounod - 51
158. Leifs - 50
159. Tippet - 49
160. Schumann, Clara - 48
161. Khachaturian - 45
162. Berio - 42
163. Glinka - 40
164. Barrios - 39
165. Bernstein - 38
166. Graupner - 37
166. Mompou - 37
168. Leonin - 35
168. Sorabji - 35
170. Harbison - 32
171. Milhaud - 31
171. Schuman, William - 31
173. Granados - 30
174. Rubinstein - 29
175. Frescobaldi - 28
176. Locatelli - 26
177. Berwald - 25
178. Carter - 24
178. Dukas - 24
178. Gubaidulina - 24
178. Pergolesi - 24
178. Ries - 24
183. Balakirev - 23
183. Golijov - 23
183. MacDowell - 23
186. Farrenc - 22
186. Henze - 22
186. Stamitz - 22
189. Canteloube - 21
189. Hovhaness - 21
189. Reger - 21
192. Binchois - 19
192. Harris - 19
194. Allegri - 18
194. Czerny - 18
196. Arensky - 17
196. D'Indy - 17
196. Valen - 17
196. Vierne - 17
200. Skalkottas - 16
200. Zemlinsky - 16
202. Parry - 15
202. Weinberg - 15
204. Abel - 14
204. Couperin, Louis - 14
204. Hartmann - 14
204. Hvoslef - 14
204. Wohlfahrt - 14
204. Zimmerman - 14
210. Sor - 13
211. Marcello - 11
211. Wallin - 11
213. Beach - 10
213. Bridge - 10
213. Landini - 10
213. Quantz - 10
213. Rudland - 10
218. Holmboe - 9
218. Krommer - 9
218. Langgaard - 9
218. Widor - 9
222. Ferneyhough - 8
222. Heinichen - 8
222. Nyman - 8
222. Pettersson - 8
222. Schreker - 8
222. Weill - 8
228. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
228. Meyerbeer - 7
228. Wyschnegradsky - 7
231. Campra - 6
231. Catan - 6
231. Eberl - 6
231. Froberger - 6
231. Fux - 6
231. Ireland - 6
237. Cavalli - 5
237. Guerrero - 5
237. Janequin - 5
237. Suk - 5
237. Torelli - 5
237. Veress - 5
237. Wieniawski - 5
244. Bloch - 4
244. Brouwer - 4
244. Danzi - 4
244. Fasch - 4
244. Kalinnikov - 4
244. Krenek - 4
244. Mathieu - 4
244. Sarasate - 4
252. Arriaga - 3
252. De Morales - 3
252. Taneyev - 3
255. Da Milano - 2
255. Gerhard - 2
255. Marais - 2
255. Myaskovsky - 2
259. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
259. Monti - 1
259. Ponce - 1
259. Sanz - 1
259. Strauss I, Johann - 1
259. Strauss, Josef - 1
259. Tarrega - 1
259. Ysaÿe - 1
267. Ullmann - -6
268. Schobert - -25


----------



## Crudblud

Varèse + 10
Schnittke + 9
Takemitsu + 8
Xenakis + 7
Stockhausen + 6
Wolf + 5
Honegger + 4
Falla + 3
Szymanowski + 2
Massenet + 1

Perotin - 3


----------



## Conor71

10 Khatchaturian
9 Hindemith
8 Boccherini


----------



## Trout

10 Varese
9 Honegger
4 Hindemith
-3 Arnold

The end is near.


----------



## crmoorhead

10pts Glazunov
9 Honneger
8 Cage
7 Arnold
6 Korngold
5 Falla
4 Cherubini
3 Gorecki
2 Paganini
1 Dukas


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Boccherini = +10
Charpentier = +9
Massenet = +8
Spohr = +7
Glazunov = +6

Varèse = -3


----------



## Rapide

10 Smetana
9 Walton
8 Charpentier 
7 Albeniz
6 Dufay
5 Arnold
4 Boulez
3 Wolf
2 Spohr
1 Offenbach

-3 Varese


----------



## science

Disregard this!


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

-3 Skalkottas

Really? I actually liked what I've heard so far by Skalkottas.


----------



## Orpheus

Dufay 10
Gibbons 9
Szymanowski 8
Brian 7
Chausson 6
Sorabji 5
Barrios 4
Mompou 3
Rodrigo 2
Pergolesi 1

Walton -3


----------



## pjang23

EDIT: Updated for science's vote

Current Results: Hindemith, Boccherini, Wolf, Charpentier & Smetana are in

Composers need to reach *300* points to be permanently placed.

1. Bach
2. Mozart
3. Beethoven
4. Schubert
5. Brahms
6. Wagner
7. Haydn
8. Schumann
9. Handel
10. Mahler
11. Mendelssohn
12. Debussy
13. Dvořák
14. Chopin
15. Tchaikovsky
16. Stravinsky
17. Ravel
18. Prokofiev
19. Shostakovich
20. Strauss, Richard
21. Liszt
22. Bartók
23. Verdi
24. Monteverdi
25. Sibelius
26. Vivaldi
27. Berlioz
28. Bruckner
29. Saint-Saëns
30. Elgar
31. Fauré
32. Vaughan Williams
33. Rachmaninoff
34. Puccini
35. Purcell
36. Scarlatti, Domenico
37. Mussorgsky
38. Schoenberg
39. Grieg
40. Palestrina
41. Messiaen
42. Janáček
43. Britten
44. Rossini
45. Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin
47. Berg
48. Bach, C.P.E.
49. Barber
50. Bach, J.C.
51. Gluck
52. Rameau
53. Scriabin
54. Ligeti
55. Webern
56. Nielsen
57. Bizet
58. Lully
59. Copland
60. Villa-Lobos
61. Weber
62. Telemann
63. Satie
64. Strauss II, Johann
65. Adams
66. Glass
67. Gesualdo
68. Donizetti
69. Ives
70. Biber
71. Bellini
72. Tallis
73. Buxtehude
74. Machaut
75. Victoria
76. Respighi
77. Hummel
78. Haydn, Michael
79. Byrd
80. Borodin
81. Reich
82. Pärt
83. Holst
84. Delius
85. Scarlatti, Alessandro
86. Gershwin
87. Corelli
88. Couperin, François
89. Dowland
90. Hildegard
91. Franck
92. Schütz
93. Penderecki
94. Hindemith
95. Boccherini
96. Wolf
97. Charpentier
98. Smetana
99. Walton - 295
100. Albéniz - 281
101. Dufay - 280
102. Glazunov - 269
103. Varèse - 268
104. Arnold - 266
105. Schnittke - 248
106. Rott - 247
107. Massenet - 246
108. Bax - 243
109. Alfven - 197
110. Spohr - 190
111. Takemitsu - 179
112. Offenbach - 177
113. Stockhausen - 173
114. Honegger - 165
115. Perotin - 164
116. Szymanowski - 156
116. Vogelweide - 156
118. Boulez - 154
118. Poulenc - 154
120. Brian - 147
121. Chausson - 144
122. Lassus - 136
123. Zelenka - 135
124. Crumb - 131
125. Falla - 126
126. Xenakis - 125
127. Albinoni - 123
128. Novak - 114
129. Graun - 111
130. Ockeghem - 106
131. Lutosławski - 103
132. Cage - 101
133. Alkan - 97
133. Rodrigo - 97
135. Martinu - 94
136. Ippolitov-Ivanov - 91
137. Korngold - 88
138. Clementi - 86
139. Gabrieli, Giovanni - 82
140. Cherubini - 81
140. Medtner - 81
142. Paganini - 78
143. Enescu - 76
143. Gombert - 76
145. Alwyn - 75
146. Kodály - 72
146. Piazzolla - 72
148. Weiss - 70
149. Dussek - 68
149. Lalo - 68
151. Tveitt - 67
152. Gibbons - 66
153. Gorecki - 62
154. Pachelbel - 60
155. Bach, W.F. - 59
156. Khachaturian - 55
157. Hasse - 53
158. Gounod - 51
159. Leifs - 50
160. Tippet - 49
161. Schumann, Clara - 48
162. Barrios - 43
163. Berio - 42
164. Glinka - 40
164. Mompou - 40
164. Sorabji - 40
167. Bernstein - 38
168. Graupner - 37
169. Léonin - 35
170. Harbison - 32
171. Milhaud - 31
171. Schuman, William - 31
173. Granados - 30
174. Rubinstein - 29
175. Frescobaldi - 28
176. Locatelli - 26
177. Berwald - 25
177. Dukas - 25
177. Pergolesi - 25
180. Carter - 24
180. Gubaidulina - 24
180. Ries - 24
183. Balakirev - 23
183. Golijov - 23
183. MacDowell - 23
186. Farrenc - 22
186. Henze - 22
186. Stamitz - 22
189. Canteloube - 21
189. Hovhaness - 21
189. Reger - 21
192. Binchois - 19
192. Harris - 19
194. Allegri - 18
194. Czerny - 18
196. Arensky - 17
196. D'Indy - 17
196. Valen - 17
196. Vierne - 17
200. Skalkottas - 16
200. Zemlinsky - 16
202. Parry - 15
202. Weinberg - 15
204. Abel - 14
204. Couperin, Louis - 14
204. Hartmann - 14
204. Hvoslef - 14
204. Wohlfahrt - 14
204. Zimmerman - 14
210. Sor - 13
211. Marcello - 11
211. Wallin - 11
213. Beach - 10
213. Bridge - 10
213. Landini - 10
213. Quantz - 10
213. Rudland - 10
218. Haas - 9
218. Holmboe - 9
218. Krommer - 9
218. Langgaard - 9
218. Marais - 9
218. Widor - 9
224. Campra - 8
224. Ferneyhough - 8
224. Guerrero - 8
224. Heinichen - 8
224. Morales - 8
224. Myaskovsky - 8
224. Nyman - 8
224. Pettersson - 8
224. Schreker - 8
224. Taneyev - 8
224. Weill - 8
235. Ireland - 7
235. Mendelssohn, Fanny - 7
235. Meyerbeer - 7
235. Wyschnegradsky - 7
239. Catán - 6
239. Eberl - 6
239. Froberger - 6
239. Fux - 6
243. Cavalli - 5
243. Janequin - 5
243. Suk - 5
243. Torelli - 5
243. Veress - 5
243. Wieniawski - 5
243. Ysaÿe - 5
250. Bloch - 4
250. Brouwer - 4
250. Danzi - 4
250. Fasch - 4
250. Kalinnikov - 4
250. Krenek - 4
250. Mathieu - 4
250. Sarasate - 4
250. Ullmann - 4
259. Arriaga - 3
259. De Morales - 3
261. Da Milano - 2
261. Gerhard - 2
263. Gabrieli, Andrea - 1
263. Monti - 1
263. Ponce - 1
263. Sanz - 1
263. Strauss I, Johann - 1
263. Strauss, Josef - 1
263. Tarrega - 1
270. Schobert - -25


----------



## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> -3 Skalkottas
> 
> Really? I actually liked what I've heard so far by Skalkottas.


Has nothing to do with that.

There just isn't enough room, if the cut-off is 200. It's either Skalkottas or Zemlinsky. Throats will have to be cut, but that's the consequence of exclusivity. If I had my 'druthers, there are composers besides Skalkottas that I'd move down to make room, but I can only do what I can do.


----------



## pjang23

science said:


> Has nothing to do with that.
> 
> There just isn't enough room, if the cut-off is 200. It's either Skalkottas or Zemlinsky. Throats will have to be cut, but that's the consequence of exclusivity. If I had my 'druthers, there are composers besides Skalkottas that I'd move down to make room, but I can only do what I can do.


I'm thinking of including all names with positive scores, separated in a few tiers by their points with each tier alphabetically ordered. Either that, or just the whole list of positive scores in alphabetical order.


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> I'm thinking of including all names with positive scores, separated in a few tiers by their points.


If you assure me that you're doing that, I would change my voting strategy! For the past few votes, I've been all about getting people over 150 or over 200, just in case you cut it off at one of those two lines.


----------



## pjang23

science said:


> If you assure me that you're doing that, I would change my voting strategy! For the past few votes, I've been all about getting people over 150 or over 200, just in case you cut it off at one of those two lines.


I'll at least count everyone with a positive score. Having 2 or 3 tiers is a possibility, as long as results don't look too silly. Let me know if you edit your vote. I'll count it as long as it doesn't affect a composer reaching 300.


----------



## science

pjang23 said:


> I'll at least count everyone with a positive score. Having 2 or 3 tiers is a possibility, as long as results don't look too silly. Let me know if you edit your vote. I'll count it as long as it doesn't affect a composer reaching 300.


Actually, in that case, let me edit! Just a moment!


----------



## science

Here is my vote: 

10 Ullmann
9 Haas 
8 Morales 
7 Marais
6 Myaskovsky
5 Tanayev 
4 Ysaye 
3 Guerrero 
2 Campra 
1 Ireland


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Rott · 10
von der Vogelweide · 9
Pachelbel · 8
Graun, C.H. · 7
Albinoni · 6
Takemitsu · 5
Weill · 4
Korngold · 3
Stockhausen · 2
Paganini · 1


Quetzalcoatl Mozart · -3


----------



## Very Senior Member

pjang23 said:


> I'm thinking of including all names with positive scores, separated in a few tiers by their points with each tier alphabetically ordered. Either that, or just the whole list of positive scores in alphabetical order.


I thought it was agreed several pages back that all the positions below 100 would be ranked alphabetically for rhe positive scores. I didn't know about possible tiers. That's why I stopped voting for anyone I considered stood no chance of getting into the top 100. I would have voted differently if I had known otherwise.


----------



## pjang23

Very Senior Member said:


> I thought it was agreed several pages back that all the positions below 100 would be ranked alphabetically for rhe positive scores. I didn't know about possible tiers. That's why I stopped voting for anyone I considered stood no chance of getting into the top 100. I would have voted differently if I had known otherwise.


I was thinking of some way to recognize runner-ups so the votes don't go to waste, but yeah, might as well do plain alphabetical since it's how some of you have been voting. Sorry for the mix-up.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

Von der Vogelweide (place 116), Xenakis (126) and Zelenka (123) are also strongly in favor of the alphabetical order. Not to mention Varèse (103).


----------



## pjang23

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Von der Vogelweide (place 116), Xenakis (126) and Zelenka (123) are also strongly in favor of the alphabetical order. Not to mention Varèse (103).


Well, people could always look a few pages back to see how they did. I won't be submitting this list for a sticky.

Curious though, what are you favorite works by Vogelwiede? I've never heard of him before.


----------



## science

Very Senior Member said:


> I thought it was agreed several pages back that all the positions below 100 would be ranked alphabetically for rhe positive scores. I didn't know about possible tiers. That's why I stopped voting for anyone I considered stood no chance of getting into the top 100. I would have voted differently if I had known otherwise.


I'd have voted differently as well. This list has been rather make-shift, make-it-up-as-we-go. I think it's just a good idea to let it pass.

Perhaps someday - we all need a long break, I'd suggest, but in the distant future - we can do this again but in a more systematic, well-thought-out way.


----------



## pollux

pjang23 said:


> Curious though, what are you favorite works by Vogelwiede? I've never heard of him before.


I'm also intrigued. I've always thought that it was another of DrHieronymusFaust's _boutades_ 

10	Albéniz
9	Cavalli
8	Couperin, Louis
7	Campra
6	Marais
5	Froberger
4	Fux
3	Guerrero
2	Janequin
1	Zimmermann

-3	Walton


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

@pjang & pollux,

My votes for von der Vogelweide were neither grounded in humor nor based on personal preference, but primarily a product of a) the objective assessment and valuation of his overall status and influence within medieval _Minnesang_ and within the German arts/culture, specifically its music and - admittedly more so - its literature and, thus, the probable necessity to include him at least in the list or maybe even as a part of the top 100 and b) the realization that apparently he would not get (m)any votes at all in this place due to being largely unknown among this particular crowd.

When looking at the top 10 of this list and noticing that it consists entirely of composers of German/Austrian origin, it felt almost logical to include their compatriotic predecessor, the potential origin and - the first major 'star', so to speak - of the cultural development which would later lead to Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Wagner and Mahler among others, even if it had to happen exclusively through my own votes, which I was glad to spend on this task and on von der Vogelweide getting some of the recognition that I have constantly seen him getting elsewhere for a couple of decades now. Basically, whenever I've read a book or an essay or a chronology of the history and evolution of German (or even European) arts, it usually starts with - or quickly gets to - von der Vogelweide and addresses him as the fountainhead or, at the very least, as the first renowned and notable representitive of both German lyricism and music.

I therefore thought he deserved the mention, the possible rank and the recognition. Of course, I additionally realized that he might come across as a bit of an odd, unique choice, however, he's usually considered the opposite of that in most other situations and circumstances when dealing with prestigious figures of (medieval) arts.

As stated above, his influence in literature/lyricism certainly exceeds the impact he's had on music, but with Minnesang, both elements are obviously tightly connected. I've read several of his poems, some of which are quite famous in this part of the world, however, as far as musical interpretations go, I've only heard maybe a dozen of his songs in different versions. His 'smash hits' are "Unter den Linden" (an archetypical, though - thematically - somewhat 'progressive' medieval love song) and "Palästinalied" (an extolment of the Christian crusades, which von der Vogelweide is actually rumoured to have participated in - bad choice on his part, but what can you do when growing up and living in the 12th and 13th century..).

Unter den Linden (version 1):





Unter den Linden (version 2):





Palästinalied:


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

*1. Albéniz- +10 (in!)
2. Walton +9 (in!)*
3. Offenbach +8
4. Dufay +7
5. Korngold +6
6. Zelenka +5
7. Couperin +4
8. S. Weiss +3
9. Lassus +2
10. Albinoni +1

Varese -3

Done! The Top-100 is finished.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I think a good many of us voted in a manner that removed from a simple vote for those composers remaining who they felt were the strongest or most deserving of recognition. It was part of the strategy of the "game". I know for certain that I compromised at times... voting for a composer that I did not think was the best choice of the remaining composers as a form of compromise in order to block another composer(s) that I felt was grossly overrated in the standing (Varèse).

I agree that the construction of the list was not the most systematic. There were too few participants over the long haul to offer a decent sampling of the opinions or tastes of the classical music listeners... even the listeners at TC. There was one member who essentially admitted that his experience of music is largely limited to YouTube videos. And then we had the demerit of 3 points which wasn't enough, considering the limited number of participants, to effectively counteract any extreme anomaly such as the member throwing 10 points every round to rather minor composer.

All in all, I think the top of the list is not bad... I wouldn't change much (outside of the order) in the first 20 names. After that... I don't think it's a bad introduction to a range of composers. Unless we were to sit down and debate the relative merits of each composer based upon the sort of data employed by Phil. G. Goulding in his book, _The 50 Greatest Composers and Their 1000 Greatest Works_, I doubt we can come up with a better list of recommended or most-important composers that would be ideal for the novice to build his or her collection upon. Of course we could always limit the voting to individuals having proven themselves well-versed and appreciative of music from Byzantine Chant through the present... but how many would qualify, who established the criteria, and who chooses these elect representatives?

Nevertheless... its been fun.:tiphat:


----------



## science

Well, that stinks. I was going to add several composers with my next vote: Kurtag, Ramirez, Brumel, Adam, Cardew, Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Silvestrov, Coriglianu, Daugherty, Chin. I am ashamed of us for not having any of them on our list. And that's just what I planned to add if I had one more vote, a list I pulled together in about ten minutes this morning. Lord only knows who else we're missing. 

But I wasted most of my votes because we didn't agree on the rules from the beginning. Lots of others probably did so as well. I agree wholeheartedly with pjang23's decision not to submit this as one of the official talkclassical lists. If we ever attempt such a thing in earnest, we need to think it out from the beginning much more carefully. I don't blame CarterJohnsonPiano who didn't seem to intend to initiate the thing that the thread became, and I certainly don't blame pjang23 who did about as well as anyone could have when he picked it up - none of us can criticize the guy who spent his time adding up all those votes every day. It's just that what the thing would wind up being wasn't clear until the very last round, and as a result all previous votes are at best inefficient; the list as a whole is only the roughest guide to what we would've created if any of us had known what we were doing. 

We need a break, I'd say, but someday I hope we set out more methodically to try something like this again.


----------



## DrHieronymusFaust

I will continue to vote.


----------



## Toddlertoddy

10. Varese


----------



## pjang23

Final Results:

1. Johann Sebastian Bach
2. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
3. Ludwig van Beethoven
4. Franz Schubert
5. Johannes Brahms
6. Richard Wagner
7. Joseph Haydn
8. Robert Schumann
9. George Frideric Handel
10. Gustav Mahler
11. Felix Mendelssohn
12. Claude Debussy
13. Antonín Dvořák
14. Frédéric Chopin
15. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
16. Igor Stravinsky
17. Maurice Ravel
18. Sergei Prokofiev
19. Dmitri Shostakovich
20. Richard Strauss
21. Franz Liszt
22. Béla Bartók
23. Giuseppe Verdi
24. Claudio Monteverdi
25. Jean Sibelius
26. Antonio Vivaldi
27. Hector Berlioz
28. Anton Bruckner
29. Camille Saint-Saëns
30. Edward Elgar
31. Gabriel Fauré
32. Ralph Vaughan Williams
33. Sergei Rachmaninoff
34. Giacomo Puccini
35. Henry Purcell
36. Domenico Scarlatti
37. Modest Mussorgsky
38. Arnold Schoenberg
39. Edvard Grieg
40. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina
41. Olivier Messiaen
42. Leoš Janáček
43. Benjamin Britten
44. Gioachino Rossini
45. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
46. Josquin des Prez
47. Alban Berg
48. Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach
49. Samuel Barber
50. Johann Christian Bach
51. Christoph Willibald Gluck
52. Jean-Philippe Rameau
53. Alexander Scriabin
54. György Ligeti
55. Anton Webern
56. Carl Nielsen
57. Georges Bizet
58. Jean-Baptiste Lully
59. Aaron Copland
60. Heitor Villa-Lobos
61. Carl Maria von Weber
62. Georg Philipp Telemann
63. Erik Satie
64. Johann Strauss II
65. John Adams
66. Philip Glass
67. Carlo Gesualdo
68. Gaetano Donizetti
69. Charles Ives
70. Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber
71. Vincenzo Bellini
72. Thomas Tallis
73. Dieterich Buxtehude
74. Guillaume de Machaut
75. Tomás Luis de Victoria
76. Ottorino Respighi
77. Johann Nepomuk Hummel
78. Michael Haydn
79. William Byrd
80. Alexander Borodin
81. Steve Reich
82. Arvo Pärt
83. Gustav Holst
84. Frederick Delius
85. Alessandro Scarlatti
86. George Gershwin
87. Arcangelo Corelli
88. François Couperin
89. John Dowland
90. Hildegard von Bingen
91. César Franck
92. Heinrich Schütz
93. Krzysztof Penderecki
94. Paul Hindemith
95. Luigi Boccherini
96. Hugo Wolf
97. Marc-Antoine Charpentier
98. Bedřich Smetana
99. William Walton
100. Isaac Albéniz

Honorable Mentions (in alphabetical order)

Carl Friedrich Abel
Tomaso Albinoni
Hugo Alfven
Charles-Valentin Alkan
Gregorio Allegri
William Alwyn
Anton Arensky
Malcolm Arnold
Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga
Wilhelm Friedemann Bach
Mily Balakirev
Agustín Barrios
Arnold Bax
Amy Beach
Luciano Berio
Leonard Bernstein
Franz Berwald
Gilles Binchois
Ernest Bloch
Pierre Boulez
Havergal Brian
Frank Bridge
Leo Brouwer
John Cage
André Campra
Joseph Canteloube
Elliott Carter
Daniel Catán
Francesco Cavalli
Ernest Chausson
Luigi Cherubini
Muzio Clementi
Louis Couperin
George Crumb
Carl Czerny
Francesco Canova da Milano
Franz Danzi
Cristóbal de Morales
Vincent d'Indy
Guillaume Dufay
Paul Dukas
Jan Ladislav Dussek
Anton Eberl
George Enescu
Manuel de Falla
Louise Farrenc
Johann Friedrich Fasch
Brian Ferneyhough
Girolamo Frescobaldi
Johann Jakob Froberger
Johann Fux
Andrea Gabrieli
Giovanni Gabrieli
Roberto Gerhard
Orlando Gibbons
Alexander Glazunov
Mikhail Glinka
Osvaldo Golijov
Nicolas Gombert
Henryk Gorecki
Charles Gounod
Enrique Granados
Carl Heinrich Graun
Christoph Graupner
Sofia Gubaidulina
Francisco Guerrero
Georg Friedrich Haas
John Harbison
Roy Harris
Karl Amadeus Hartmann
Johann Adolph Hasse
Johann David Heinichen
Hans Werner Henze
Vagn Holmboe
Arthur Honegger
Alan Hovhaness
Ketil Hvoslef
Mikhail Ippolitov-Ivanov
John Ireland
Clément Janequin
Vasily Kalinnikov
Aram Khachaturian
Zoltán Kodály
Erich Wolfgang Korngold
Ernst Krenek
Franz Krommer
Édouard Lalo
Francesco Landini
Rued Langgaard
Orlande de Lassus
Jón Leifs
Léonin
Pietro Locatelli
Witold Lutosławski
Edward MacDowell
Marin Marais
Benedetto Marcello
Bohuslav Martinů
Jules Massenet
André Mathieu
Nikolai Medtner
Fanny Mendelssohn
Giacomo Meyerbeer
Darius Milhaud
Federico Mompou
Vittorio Monti
Cristóbal de Morales
Nikolai Myaskovsky
Vítězslav Novák
Michael Nyman
Johannes Ockeghem
Jacques Offenbach
Johann Pachelbel
Niccolò Paganini
Hubert Parry
Giovanni Battista Pergolesi
Pérotin
Allan Pettersson
Ástor Piazzolla
Manuel Ponce
Francis Poulenc
Johann Joachim Quantz
Max Reger
Ferdinand Ries
Joaquín Rodrigo
Hans Rott
Anton Rubinstein
Oliver Rudland
Gaspar Sanz
Pablo de Sarasate
Alfred Schnittke
Franz Schreker
William Schuman
Clara Schumann
Nikos Skalkottas
Fernando Sor
Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji
Louis Spohr
Carl Stamitz
Karlheinz Stockhausen
Johann Strauss I
Josef Strauss
Josef Suk
Karol Szymanowski
Toru Takemitsu
Sergei Taneyev
Francisco Tárrega
Michael Tippett
Giuseppe Torelli
Geirr Tveitt
Viktor Ullmann
Fartein Valen
Edgard Varèse
Sándor Veress
Louis Vierne
Walther von der Vogelweide
Rolf Wallin
Kurt Weill
Mieczysław Weinberg
Sylvius Leopold Weiss
Charles-Marie Widor
Henryk Wieniawski
Franz Wohlfahrt
Ivan Wyschnegradsky
Iannis Xenakis
Eugène Ysaÿe
Jan Dismas Zelenka
Alexander von Zemlinsky
Bernd Alois Zimmerman


----------



## Very Senior Member

Apart from the peculiarities and irritations mentioned by SLG, with which I agree, it was a bit of fun that I quite enjoyed. But I would have preferred it to stop at 50, and even that was pushing things. Too many people dropped out after that number.

If a similar exercise was to be carried out at a later time, I think that better rules could be construed. As a suggestion, it would have to be clear at the outset that voting would stop at a certain point (say 40) but that positions beyond that could be voted upon up to, say, 75 maximum. Beyond about 40 I reckon most people aren't really able to rank. People should be encouraged to think and vote as objectively as they can rather than put down their current favourites if these happen to be different. Ideally, the voters should be a fixed group. A minimum size of 40 would be ideal. If anyone wanted to drop out at any stage they should do so rather than feel obliged to continue when they don't know enough. Votes of 1 to 5 and a negative of 5 would be better than 1-10, and a -3. The vote counter should have discretion to ignore any votes that seem to be mischievous, although that should be sussed out early. 

All this is unlikely to happen, as it's too difficult to achieve, especially the limitation to a fixed group. The reason why this is important is that if anybody is free to join in after the start it risks self-selecting samples to be created, thus increasing the risk of bias. Overall, if it could be done that's the kind of things that might be expected to improve the results.

Meanwhile many thanks to the OP for the idea of this thread, and to pyang23, for all their work which is much appreciated.


----------



## mmsbls

@pjang: Great thanks so very much for all the hard work and constant updating of our voting. You took on a demanding task, and we all benefited. Also thanks for working through the various potential difficulties involving spurious votes, composer requirements, and modifications with selection points. You helped make all our participation both enjoyable and exciting.

@CarterJohnsonPiano: Thanks for starting this thread. Even though people have reservations about the result and process, there would be problems with essentially any selection method and result. 

I am very happy with the outcome. Thanks again to both of you!


----------



## DeepR

Wouldn't it be nice to expand this top 100 with some listening recommendations for every composer on the list?
How about 5 pieces for every composer. The participants who gave most points to a certain composer could recommend these compositions (and specific performances). Just an idea.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Firstly, thank you to member pjang23 for his efforts and sharp eyes. Much appreciated.

Second, it has been fun. I'm getting my Baroque gold guilded frame ready for the top 100 list printout.

Finally, oh such a pity, what a shame Edgard Varèse didn't make the top 100. Perhaps if he wrote more music, he might have had better chance!


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## pollux

Personally, I have no reason to complain, excepting the fact that I arrived too late to the voting, but that is my fault. At least I arrived in time to help to promote some composers such as Byrd, Dowland, Couperin, Charpentier and Schütz who definitely deserve their place in the top 100. I think the voting system was as good (or bad) as any other.

On the other hand, taking a look at the list, I've only found 10 composers in the top 50 that IMO should not be there and about 10-15 that are overrated in the top 100. It seems reasonable to me, as I could not expect the list to exactly match my own criteria. Moreover, this list probably is better than some others which are made by so-called experts.

I also wish to thank pjang23 for the burdensome work :tiphat:


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## StlukesguildOhio

Finally, oh such a pity, what a shame Edgard Varèse didn't make the top 100. Perhaps if he wrote more music, he might have had better chance!

Varèse wrote music?


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## Trout

Thank you pjang for all your effort in constantly updating the board and for persisting through despite the imperfect system.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Finally, oh such a pity, what a shame Edgard Varèse didn't make the top 100. Perhaps if he wrote more music, he might have had better chance!
> 
> Varèse wrote music?


Oh please. You always seem to associate Varese with other so-called "noise makers" such as Stockhausen and Xenakis, whereas, in actuality, he preceded both of them by a good 40 years. Such ignorance makes me even question if you are at all familiar with his music.


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## pollux

Now, who is missing? This is a list of the composers who I think that, by all means, should have been in the top 100:

*Ockeghem *- one of the first composers in the modern meaning of the word, whose influence spread through all Europe.

*Dufay *- a key name in the transition from the Middle Ages to Renaissance.

*Lassus *- he was one of the very best polyphonists of the Renaissance.

*Frescobaldi *- he contributed as no one before him to the development of solo keyboard music, and to the stablishment of new musical forms.

*Cavalli *- he was chronologically the second great name in the history of opera -a link between Monteverdi and Lully- and composed some magnficent sacred music, too.

*Pergolesi *- he composed one of the most universally admired compositions ever, through all the ages (his _Stabat Mater_, of course).

Now, if you want, make your own lists.


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## crmoorhead

Thanks to pjang23 and CarterJohnsonPiano and also to all that contributed to discussion here. 

I think the list is a pretty good one, though I would probably have cut off many of the composers that had low scores. I'm ruthless like that.


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## BurningDesire

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Firstly, thank you to member pjang23 for his efforts and sharp eyes. Much appreciated.
> 
> Second, it has been fun. I'm getting my Baroque gold guilded frame ready for the top 100 list printout.
> 
> Finally, oh such a pity, what a shame Edgard Varèse didn't make the top 100. Perhaps if he wrote more music, he might have had better chance!


Varese actually wrote quite alot of work that was sadly (imo) destroyed in a fire during WWI. Only one piece from that period survives (the song _Un grand sommeil noir_). Still he wrote some amazing works after arriving in America :3 Quality over quantity.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Such ignorance makes me even question if you are at all familiar with his music.

Varèse' complete oeuvre takes up all of 2 CD discs. Not exactly what is expected of any composer who is to be considered among the 100 greatest of all time. You'll note that Duparc, Pergolesi, and Duruflé... as fine as they were, did not garner votes anywhere near placing them in the top hundred. This was true in spite of the fact that Duparc's 17 mélodies virtually established the late 19th century French tradition of "art song", Pergolesi's Stabat Mater pointed the way away from the Baroque and toward the clarity and uncomplicated structure of classicism well before Bach had died, and Duruflé's Requiem is certainly the most popular if not the best Requiem since Faure. Hell not even Pérotin or Leonin who together brought about the shift from plainchant to polyphony... an innovation as important and far more lasting than anything wrought by Schoenberg. But most voters recognized that a few known pieces just aren't enough to place a composer among the greatest of all time... not unless these are absolutely spectacular and grandiose works... which they most certainly are not.










Such ignorance in imagining that Varèse is so worthy of being recognized above all the other possibilities in the history of music makes me wonder whether you are familiar with anything beyond the last 100 years.


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Varèse' complete oeuvre takes up all of 2 CD discs. Not exactly what is expected of any composer who is to be considered among the 100 greatest of all time. You'll note that Duparc, Pergolesi, and Duruflé... as fine as they were, did not garner votes anywhere near placing them in the top hundred. This was true in spite of the fact that Duparc's 17 mélodies virtually established the late 19th century French tradition of "art song", Pergolesi's Stabat Mater pointed the way away from the Baroque and toward the clarity and uncomplicated structure of classicism well before Bach had died, and Duruflé's Requiem is certainly the most popular if not the best Requiem since Faure. Hell not even Pérotin or Leonin who together brought about the shift from plainchant to polyphony... an innovation as important and far more lasting than anything wrought by Schoenberg. But most voters recognized that a few known pieces just aren't enough to place a composer among the greatest of all time... not unless these are absolutely spectacular and grandiose works... which they most certainly are not.


Who cares if you can fit all of his surviving works onto just 2 CDs? I woudn't agree with that criteria. Leonin and Perotin should have been on the list (maybe knock off Mozart and put in some real innovators). Quality over quantity should be the rule. Was Haydn better than Mozart and Beethoven and Mahler at writing symphonies? If we're going by quantity, Frank Zappa should be in the top 5 considering his output spans something like 70 discs of material, and thats just the stuff thats been published, and quite alot of that is of amazing quality.

And Varese's music is quite spectacular and grand, sorry you can't hear that.


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## Crudblud

I'd say Varèse is certainly more worthy than Smetana, Walton and Albéniz.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Who cares if you can fit all of his surviving works onto just 2 CDs? I woudn't agree with that criteria. Leonin and Perotin should have been on the list (maybe knock off Mozart and put in some real innovators). Quality over quantity should be the rule.

It's a nice concept... but grandma's aphorism doesn't hold water much in the arts. Three sonnets or 4 small paintings or an hour and a half of music of debatable merit doesn't earn you the place at the table alongside Michelangelo, Dante, Shakespeare... and Mozart!


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Who cares if you can fit all of his surviving works onto just 2 CDs? I woudn't agree with that criteria. Leonin and Perotin should have been on the list (maybe knock off Mozart and put in some real innovators). Quality over quantity should be the rule.
> 
> It's a nice concept... but grandma's aphorism doesn't hold water much in the arts. Three sonnets or 4 small paintings or an hour and a half of music of debatable merit doesn't earn you the place at the table alongside Michelangelo, Dante, Shakespeare... and Mozart!


LOL, comparing Mozart to Michelangelo and Shakespeare X3 You know those are REAL masters, right?


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## StlukesguildOhio

I'd say Varèse is certainly more worthy than Smetana, Walton and Albéniz.

And I would surely agree that Smetana... who composed almost nothing... is overrated. Walton and Albéniz I'll admit to not being familiar with enough music to make a judgment one way or another.

On the other hand, George Crumb, John Cage, Elliott Carter, Morton Feldmann, Pierre Boulez, Hans Werner Henze, Karl Hartmann, Kurt Weill, Erich Korngold, Ernst Krenek, Witold Lutoslawski, Toru Takemitsu, Alexander Zemlinsky, Mieczysław Weinberg, Giacinto Scelsi... all these 20th century composers and more strike me as having made a far greater contribution to music than Varèse.

On the other hand... I'll say it again... his wife, Louise Varèse may ultimately be seen as having made the far greater contribution to the arts with her brilliant translations of Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Henri Michaux, Proust, and Sartre.


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## StlukesguildOhio

LOL, comparing Mozart to Michelangelo and Shakespeare X3 You know those are REAL masters, right?

You of course understand that the more you denigrate Mozart the more you reveal your own blind bias (or is it ignorance?) and pretty much undermine anything else you have to say?

Not that Bjork and Princess Tutu helped matters much.


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## DrHieronymusFaust

Rott · 10
von der Vogelweide · 9
Pachelbel · 8
Graun, C.H. · 7
Albinoni · 6
Takemitsu · 5
Weill · 4
Korngold · 3
Stockhausen · 2
Paganini · 1


Zvonimir Barialdus Bach IV · -3


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> LOL, comparing Mozart to Michelangelo and Shakespeare X3 You know those are REAL masters, right?
> 
> You of course understand that the more you denigrate Mozart the more you reveal your own blind bias (or is it ignorance?) and pretty much undermine anything else you have to say?
> 
> Not that Bjork and Princess Tutu helped matters much.


Of course, because female composers, animation, and pop music are truly shameful things. If you like any of that, nobody can possibly take you seriously.


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## peeyaj

Pjang23,

Thanks for the good work and tons of effort you provided!! It's really appreciated. Thanks very much. )


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## StlukesguildOhio

Of course, because female composers... are truly shameful things. If you like any of that, nobody can possibly take you seriously.

Oh please! Don't try to play the gender card. Political correctness is dead and comes off as a sign of desperation. Go put on some Hildegard of Bingen... or Kaija Saariho. Far better than Bjork.


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## science

One of you likes Varese and not Mozart; one of you likes Mozart and not Varese.


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## StlukesguildOhio

That sums it up... case closed. Time for bed. :tiphat:


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## BurningDesire

science said:


> One of you likes Varese and not Mozart; one of you likes Mozart and not Varese.


Actually I like both :3 I have broad tastes.


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## Trout

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Such ignorance makes me even question if you are at all familiar with his music.
> 
> Varèse' complete oeuvre takes up all of 2 CD discs. Not exactly what is expected of any composer who is to be considered among the 100 greatest of all time. You'll note that Duparc, Pergolesi, and Duruflé... as fine as they were, did not garner votes anywhere near placing them in the top hundred. This was true in spite of the fact that Duparc's 17 mélodies virtually established the late 19th century French tradition of "art song", Pergolesi's Stabat Mater pointed the way away from the Baroque and toward the clarity and uncomplicated structure of classicism well before Bach had died, and Duruflé's Requiem is certainly the most popular if not the best Requiem since Faure. Hell not even Pérotin or Leonin who together brought about the shift from plainchant to polyphony... an innovation as important and far more lasting than anything wrought by Schoenberg.


Ah, since you wish to play this card, here is a wiki quote for you:



> He was the inventor of the term "organized sound", a phrase meaning that certain timbres and rhythms can be grouped together, sublimating into a whole new definition of music. Although his complete surviving works only last about three hours, he has been recognised as an influence by several major composers of the late 20th century. His use of new instruments and electronic resources led to his being known as the "Father of Electronic Music" while Henry Miller described him as "The stratospheric Colossus of Sound".


Varèse apparently seems to be as influential and ground-breaking as those aforementioned composers were (though maybe a little less so than Schoenberg or Perotin). And why is that even important in the making of a list that should be solely based on subjectivity? I bet you really considered the influence of JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti before you voted for them. 



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Such ignorance in imagining that Varèse is so worthy of being recognized above all the other possibilities in the history of music makes me wonder whether you are familiar with anything beyond the last 100 years.


Again, this list should have nothing to do with objectivity. Otherwise, it would just be another generic classical music list fairly identical to ones such as DDD or Goulding's. I really did not care who was more "worthy" in your denotation of the word; I just voted for the composers that I liked. Perhaps you misinterpreted this entire project?


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## Very Senior Member

Trout said:


> Again, this list should have nothing to do with objectivity. Otherwise, it would just be another generic classical music list fairly identical to ones such as DDD or Goulding's. I really did not care who was more "worthy" in your denotation of the word; I just voted for the composers that I liked. Perhaps you misinterpreted this entire project?


Even though the thread title is: "TC's 50 Greatest Composers List"? That implies that some degree of objectivity should be factored in, which is what I attempted to do and I think several others too.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Trout said:


> I bet you really considered the influence of JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti before you voted for them.


Well, at least we have numerous CDs of music by JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti to marvel with, not just less than three hours of the same old farts.


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## science

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Well, at least we have numerous CDs of music by JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti to marvel with, not just less than three hours of the same old farts.


So you're implicitly acknowledging the error in the previous argument against Varese.

It's all rationalizations. Comes down to this: You don't like Varese, and you enjoyed voting against him. You think you have reasons, everyone thinks we have reasons, and we're all full of rich compost.


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## SottoVoce

BurningDesire said:


> LOL, comparing Mozart to Michelangelo and Shakespeare X3 You know those are REAL masters, right?


How can anyone listen to something like the Hoffmeister Quartet and not feel in the presence of an absolute master? I wish it were not so. I quote Berlioz:

"... Where is the truth, and where is the error? Everywhere and nowhere. Everybody is right. What to someone seems beautiful is not so for someone else, simply because one person was moved and the other remained indifferent, and the former experienced profound delight while the latter acute boredom. What can be done about this?… nothing… but it is dreadful; I would rather be mad and believe in absolute beauty." (In terms of the 9th Symphony)


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## BurningDesire

SottoVoce said:


> How can anyone listen to something like the Hoffmeister Quartet and not feel in the presence of an absolute master? I quote Berlioz:
> 
> "... Where is the truth, and where is the error? Everywhere and nowhere. Everybody is right. What to someone seems beautiful is not so for someone else, simply because one person was moved and the other remained indifferent, and the former experienced profound delight while the latter acute boredom. What can be done about this?… nothing… but it is dreadful; I would rather be mad and believe in absolute beauty." (In terms of the 9th Symphony)


I was mostly poking fun X3 I do think Mozart was a great composer and a masterful one, just way over-rated, and not incapable of writing bland and boring music. I don't think he was the best of the period, let alone of all time. Nice quote btw~


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## StlukesguildOhio

He was the inventor of the term "organized sound", a phrase meaning that certain timbres and rhythms can be grouped together, sublimating into a whole new definition of music. Although his complete surviving works only last about three hours, he has been recognised as an influence by several major composers of the late 20th century. His use of new instruments and electronic resources led to his being known as the "Father of Electronic Music" while Henry Miller described him as "The stratospheric Colossus of Sound".

And Kurt Schwitters was a major innovator of abstract, meaningless, noise as poetry...






It doesn't mean that it was any good or that it had any lasting value for the field of poetry and literature.

I bet you really considered the influence of JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti before you voted for them.

Perhaps before you questioned Scarlatti and J.C. Bach you might have done well to learn a bit about them, even if this means moving outside your limitations of Modernist Noise as music.

Alessandro Scarlatti was the leading composer of opera and other vocal music during his tenure at the Italian courts, which were at that time the most influential and innovative in the field of music. He became G.F. Handel's chief competition in the composition of secular cantatas... the musical form that Handel cut his teeth on, and which remain among his finest works. He was a highly influential and respected opera composer at the court in Naples (the opera capitol) and was influential upon the development of the Italian Overture form and the use of the string quartet, which he often employed in the accompaniment of many of his arias. Later in his career he became an important composer of sacred music. Like many of the leading Baroque composers (including J.S. Bach) his reputation waned with the rise of the "Classical" era. A great many of his works have recently been revived and recorded (operas, cantatas, sacred works, and instrumental works) by leading performers such as Fabio Biondi, Véronique Gens, Vivica Genaux, Rene Jacobs, Bernarda Fink, I Musici, David Daniels, Fabio Bonizzoni, Rinaldo Alessandrini, etc...

Johann Christian Bach was an important innovator of the "galante style" placing emphasis upon structural clarity, fluid melodies, and avoiding the characteristic Baroque element of contrapuntal complexity. He studied in Italy, but spent most of his career in England, becoming known as the "English Bach". His symphonic and operatic compositions were influential upon the development of the Classical Style and the work of Mozart. Like Scarlatti, Bach's reputation waned and has only recently begun once again to come to light. His many compositions have been recorded by leading performers and ensembles such as RIAS-Kammerchor, Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin, the Hanover Band, Sir Neville Mariner and the Academy of Ancient Music, Emma Kirkby, and Philippe Jaroussky.

Both composers are clearly innovative and historically important figures... who can also boast of a decent-sized body of marvelous work. Innovation for its own sake... with little or nothing to show (or hear) for it seems rather empty to me.


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## science

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Perhaps before you questioned Scarlatti and J.C. Bach you might have done well to learn a bit about them, even if this means moving outside your limitations of Modernist Noise as music.


That's not a fair assumption about Trout. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person with limitations like that. He seems to enjoy music from many periods. And until this post the key word of your discussion had been "influence" rather than "importance." in order to make your case you changed the terms.

But does Trout suffer the limitations you allege?

A randomly selected vote (the first one I found):



Trout said:


> 10 Josquin
> 9 Copland
> 8 Palestrina
> 7 Tallis
> 6 Hindemith
> 5 Holst
> 4 Byrd
> 3 Paganini
> 2 Borodin
> 1 Ives
> 
> -3 JC Bach


It just doesn't look like a justified accusation to me. The assumption that he knows so little about JC Bach and A Scarlatti also seems unfair.

All it really seems to amount to is that he likes Varese more than you do, and you like JC Bach more than he does.


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## StlukesguildOhio

That's not a fair assumption about Trout.

But his assumptions about me WERE "fair"?


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## Vesteralen

Here I go, talking to no one again. But, I just have to say it:

In it's own way, this project was a lot of fun. But, I was never able to overcome the confusion caused by the original post which contradicted the thread title "Greatest" by telling us to vote for our "favorites".

As I've said too many times before, I never want to participate in a list that is truly trying to declare the "Greatest". I'm not qualified to judge that, nor do I think are 95% of the posters on this site. I would willingly contribute again to a "Favorites" poll.
The other advantage of that is that we wouldn't have to have so many arguments over choices. If you're picking your favorites, no one can argue with you - they either are or they aren't.

Would "favorite" lists be of any value? They would show the current tastes of regular TC posters, if nothing else. That would at least be equal in value to a list of "Greats" compiled by people who are, _most of the time_, voting for their favorites anyway.


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> He was the inventor of the term "organized sound", a phrase meaning that certain timbres and rhythms can be grouped together, sublimating into a whole new definition of music. Although his complete surviving works only last about three hours, he has been recognised as an influence by several major composers of the late 20th century. His use of new instruments and electronic resources led to his being known as the "Father of Electronic Music" while Henry Miller described him as "The stratospheric Colossus of Sound".
> 
> And Kurt Schwitters was a major innovator of abstract, meaningless, noise as poetry...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean that it was any good or that it had any lasting value for the field of poetry and literature.
> 
> I bet you really considered the influence of JC Bach and Alessandro Scarlatti before you voted for them.
> 
> Perhaps before you questioned Scarlatti and J.C. Bach you might have done well to learn a bit about them, even if this means moving outside your limitations of Modernist Noise as music.
> 
> Alessandro Scarlatti was the leading composer of opera and other vocal music during his tenure at the Italian courts, which were at that time the most influential and innovative in the field of music. He became G.F. Handel's chief competition in the composition of secular cantatas... the musical form that Handel cut his teeth on, and which remain among his finest works. He was a highly influential and respected opera composer at the court in Naples (the opera capitol) and was influential upon the development of the Italian Overture form and the use of the string quartet, which he often employed in the accompaniment of many of his arias. Later in his career he became an important composer of sacred music. Like many of the leading Baroque composers (including J.S. Bach) his reputation waned with the rise of the "Classical" era. A great many of his works have recently been revived and recorded (operas, cantatas, sacred works, and instrumental works) by leading performers such as Fabio Biondi, Véronique Gens, Vivica Genaux, Rene Jacobs, Bernarda Fink, I Musici, David Daniels, Fabio Bonizzoni, Rinaldo Alessandrini, etc...
> 
> Johann Christian Bach was an important innovator of the "galante style" placing emphasis upon structural clarity, fluid melodies, and avoiding the characteristic Baroque element of contrapuntal complexity. He studied in Italy, but spent most of his career in England, becoming known as the "English Bach". His symphonic and operatic compositions were influential upon the development of the Classical Style and the work of Mozart. Like Scarlatti, Bach's reputation waned and has only recently begun once again to come to light. His many compositions have been recorded by leading performers and ensembles such as RIAS-Kammerchor, Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin, the Hanover Band, Sir Neville Mariner and the Academy of Ancient Music, Emma Kirkby, and Philippe Jaroussky.
> 
> Both composers are clearly innovative and historically important figures... who can also boast of a decent-sized body of marvelous work. Innovation for its own sake... with little or nothing to show (or hear) for it seems rather empty to me.


But did Scarlatti ever use sleighbells?


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## StlukesguildOhio

No... but did Varése ever use castrati?


Now THAT takes some real balls.:lol:


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## Very Senior Member

Crudblud said:


> I'd say Varèse is certainly more worthy than Smetana, Walton and Albéniz.


Wrong thread. You should have put this is the "over-rated" accompaniment thread to this one that was set up to provide some solace to people whose opinions were deemed to be minority ones by virtue of the actual voting that took place.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

StlukesguildOhio said:


> No... but did Varése ever use castrati?
> 
> Now THAT takes some real balls.:lol:


But it takes real balls to write more than three hours of music.


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## Trout

StlukesguildOhio said:


> It doesn't mean that it was any good or that it had any lasting value for the field of poetry and literature.


Wrong. I did a quick Google search regarding innovative composers and lo and behold; the first website I found had Varese ranked 6th on the list of the top 10 most innovative composers. Even Aaron Copland agrees in his book _What to Listen for in Music_ as he mentions the pioneers of music. This is the excerpt:



> One might add, for the sake of completeness, a fourth type of composer-the pioneer type: men like Gesualdo in the seventeenth century, Moussorgsky and Berlioz in the nineteenth, Debussy and Edgar Varèse in the twentieth. It is difficult to summarize the composing methods of so variegated a group. They clearly oppose conventional solutions of musical problems. In many ways, their attitude is experimental-they seek to add new harmonies, new sonorities, new formal principles. The pioneer type was the characteristic one at the turn of the seventeenth century and also at the beginning of the twentieth century, but it is much less evident today.


Note how he mentions Varèse and not Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, etc.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Perhaps before you questioned Scarlatti and J.C. Bach you might have done well to learn a bit about them, even if this means moving outside your limitations of Modernist Noise as music.


Even if your arrogant assumption is correct, how does that make me limited? That just opens up a whole new door into what can be called music.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Both composers are clearly innovative and historically important figures... who can also boast of a decent-sized body of marvelous work. Innovation for its own sake... with little or nothing to show (or hear) for it seems rather empty to me.


I was being facetious (you could not tell by the rolling eyes?). I was pointing out the contradiction you were making in addition to your egregious error regarding the characterization of Varese. You thought that a composer's importance to the development of music is a good enough reason as to why that composer should make the list when you _clearly_ always voted for the most influential composers. *rolls eyes again* You have no reason to complain why composers of much lesser importance than Varese did not make the list just because of their influence. You just seem unable to admit your personal predilection for them and, instead, you attempt to look at the list objectively (in which case Varese should be unquestionably in).


----------



## BurningDesire

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> But it takes real balls to write more than three hours of music.


Of course when you're plugging generic melodies and gestures into basic standardized forms, its alot easier to pump out loads of music :3


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## Trout

StlukesguildOhio said:


> But his assumptions about me WERE "fair"?


My assumption about your ignorance? That still stands as you clearly cannot comprehend his importance to music and because you seem to cluster him with the wrong group of composers (Xenakis and Stockhausen... really?). If you also count my statement about your viewing this list objectively as an assumption, that is palpable for everyone to see here and here. I'd certainly say they are fair considering how indisputable they are, whereas yours have nothing to back them up.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I did a quick Google search regarding innovative composers and lo and behold; the first website I found had Varese ranked 6th on the list of the top 10 most innovative composers.

Well that surely settles it. We all know that a random Google search of websites is the last word on everything... especially in matters of aesthetic merit.

Note how he mentions Varèse and not Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, etc.

Which would seem to draw his opinion on this matter, in spite of his abilities as a composer, into question. What you and some others repeatedly fail to grasp is that innovation in the arts, for its own sake, is not necessarily the end-all-be-all measure of artistic merit... nor is it always a positive development. Some innovations have more worth than others. Across the scope of history, the most iconoclastic innovators were not always the greatest artists. J.S. Bach was not a great inventor of new forms, new structures, new combinations of instruments. Rather, he took existing forms to an unimagined level of complexity and emotional expressiveness. If I turn to the visual arts of the 20th century, I find that the aforementioned Kurt Schwitters and Marcel Duchamp were far more iconoclastic... and in this sense far more innovative than Matisse and even Picasso, yet only a purblind would argue that Schwitters or Duchamp were the greater artists based upon the existing work.

What you are confusing with you emphasis upon innovation is that it is largely irrelevant to the experience of the art work... and moreso with the passage of time. What matters is not who came up with the latest clever idea, but rather who put this... or any other ideas to the best use in creating a work of art. I don't enjoy listening to Beethoven's 9th Symphony because I recognize its innovation in the use of the choral finale. I listen to it because it is a beautiful work of music. When I look to the greatest Renaissance painters I don't concern myself as to which painter was the most instrumental in the development of linear perspective, perhaps the single most important development of Renaissance painting, and the one that would dominate Western art until Modernist and Picasso. The reality is that linear perspective was largely codified by two architects, Filippo Brunelleschi & Leon Battista Albert... neither of whom are particularly known for their paintings. The greatest painter of the era, Michelangelo, made little use of perspective and yet towers over Ucello... the artist most obsessed with the idea.

Even if your arrogant assumption is correct, how does that make me limited?

Where it makes you limited is that you presumed to make a value judgment about two composers that you knew nothing about and/or had little experience with... and yet you presumed to call me ignorant in relation to Varèse... whose entire oeuvre I own and have listened to (not that such is all that time-consuming an achievement).

You thought that a composer's importance to the development of music is a good enough reason as to why that composer should make the list when you clearly always voted for the most influential composers.

No... I voted for composers whose musical achievements overall I felt were the strongest. First and foremost this means having composed a reasonable body of music that I take pleasure in. As i already noted, I left off voting for several composers whose works I greatly enjoy and who I recognize as being quite innovative for the simple reason that their achievements were simply not great enough to consider them among the greatest in the field. Again, by way of analogy, 3 sonnets and a ballad doesn't earn you a place along side Shakespeare, Homer, Dante, and Tolstoy.


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I did a quick Google search regarding innovative composers and lo and behold; the first website I found had Varese ranked 6th on the list of the top 10 most innovative composers.
> 
> Well that surely settles it. We all know that a random Google search of websites is the last word on everything... especially in matters of aesthetic merit.
> 
> Note how he mentions Varèse and not Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, etc.
> 
> Which would seem to draw his opinion on this matter, in spite of his abilities as a composer, into question. What you and some others repeatedly fail to grasp is that innovation in the arts, for its own sake, is not necessarily the end-all-be-all measure of artistic merit... nor is it always a positive development. Some innovations have more worth than others. Across the scope of history, the most iconoclastic innovators were not always the greatest artists. J.S. Bach was not a great inventor of new forms, new structures, new combinations of instruments. Rather, he took existing forms to an unimagined level of complexity and emotional expressiveness. If I turn to the visual arts of the 20th century, I find that the aforementioned Kurt Schwitters and Marcel Duchamp were far more iconoclastic... and in this sense far more innovative than Matisse and even Picasso, yet only a purblind would argue that Schwitters or Duchamp were the greater artists based upon the existing work.
> 
> What you are confusing with you emphasis upon innovation is that it is largely irrelevant to the experience of the art work... and moreso with the passage of time. What matters is not who came up with the latest clever idea, but rather who put this... or any other ideas to the best use in creating a work of art. I don't enjoy listening to Beethoven's 9th Symphony because I recognize its innovation in the use of the choral finale. I listen to it because it is a beautiful work of music. When I look to the greatest Renaissance painters I don't concern myself as to which painter was the most instrumental in the development of linear perspective, perhaps the single most important development of Renaissance painting, and the one that would dominate Western art until Modernist and Picasso. The reality is that linear perspective was largely codified by two architects, Filippo Brunelleschi & Leon Battista Albert... neither of whom are particularly known for their paintings. The greatest painter of the era, Michelangelo, made little use of perspective and yet towers over Ucello... the artist most obsessed with the idea.
> 
> Even if your arrogant assumption is correct, how does that make me limited?
> 
> Where it makes you limited is that you presumed to make a value judgment about two composers that you knew nothing about and/or had little experience with... and yet you presumed to call me ignorant in relation to Varèse... whose entire oeuvre I own and have listened to (not that such is all that time-consuming an achievement).
> 
> You thought that a composer's importance to the development of music is a good enough reason as to why that composer should make the list when you clearly always voted for the most influential composers.
> 
> No... I voted for composers whose musical achievements overall I felt were the strongest. First and foremost this means having composed a reasonable body of music that I take pleasure in. As i already noted, I left off voting for several composers whose works I greatly enjoy and who I recognize as being quite innovative for the simple reason that their achievements were simply not great enough to consider them among the greatest in the field. Again, by way of analogy, 3 sonnets and a ballad doesn't earn you a place along side Shakespeare, Homer, Dante, and Tolstoy.


Quality over quantity. Also, you don't own/have listened to Varese's entire oeuvre. He wrote many other works that that were destroyed in a fire, and he left several scores unfinished when he died. I guess being a very careful and precise craftsman makes you inferior to composers who will publish any crap they write to make a buck.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Of course when you're plugging generic melodies and gestures into basic standardized forms, its alot easier to pump out loads of music. 

And you speak of the ignorance of others when you are blind to the achievements of entire eras of music history but seduced by the oh so ingenious innovations of Bjork, Varese, and Princess Tutu.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Quality over quantity. Also, you don't own/have listened to Varese's entire oeuvre. He wrote many other works that that were destroyed in a fire...

Junior... lost art works are absolutely irrelevant in measuring the artistic merit of an individual. How are we to judge what no longer exists? For all we know Aeschylus and Sophocles were greater writers/playwrights than Shakespeare considering the fact that we have less than 10% or their entire output. Perhaps the plays we have were not even the best. Perhaps their were dozens greater than anything we can imagine... but this is all pointless supposition.

And "Quality over Quantity" is a nice thought... but doesn't hold water when taken to the extremes. There are no poets who composed just a few short poems who are ranked alongside Dante, Homer, etc... One of the measures of "greatness" is the ability to sustain aesthetic quality over a period of time... across an admirable scale.


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Of course when you're plugging generic melodies and gestures into basic standardized forms, its alot easier to pump out loads of music.
> 
> And you speak of the ignorance of others when you are blind to the achievements of entire eras of music history but seduced by the oh so ingenious innovations of Bjork, Varese, and Princess Tutu.


XD I've said it before, Princess Tutu is not a musician nor a composer. And if you actually read my posts, you'd see that I'm far from blind to the achievements of the various eras. I like classical and baroque music, I just don't see the need to act like its better than everything else, or to act like composers who were good from those eras are these insurmountable towering giants of greatness.  I also don't put much stock in the religious worship of Germans.


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## BurningDesire

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Quality over quantity. Also, you don't own/have listened to Varese's entire oeuvre. He wrote many other works that that were destroyed in a fire...
> 
> Junior... lost art works are absolutely irrelevant in measuring the artistic merit of an individual. How are we to judge what no longer exists? For all we know Aeschylus and Sophocles were greater writers/playwrights than Shakespeare considering the fact that we have less than 10% or their entire output. Perhaps the plays we have were not even the best. Perhaps their were dozens greater than anything we can imagine... but this is all pointless supposition.
> 
> And "Quality over Quantity" is a nice thought... but doesn't hold water when taken to the extremes. There are no poets who composed just a few short poems who are ranked alongside Dante, Homer, etc... One of the measures of "greatness" is the ability to sustain aesthetic quality over a period of time... across an admirable scale.


I am aware that we can't judge those works we can't hear, but you keep bringing up his "small" output, acting like he was lazy or incompetent, when it really just isn't true. Besides, this is not an extreme. If all that survived from Mozart was The Marriage of Figaro, the 40th Symphony, the Requiem, and maybe a couple concerti or serenades, would you be referring to him as this inferior hack? Would you say he doesn't deserve to be held in the same regard as Bach and Haydn and Beethoven? If so, well thats really pathetic. Quality over quantity.


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## Trout

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Which would seem to draw his opinion on this matter, in spite of his abilities as a composer, into question. What you and some others repeatedly fail to grasp is that innovation in the arts, for its own sake, is not necessarily the end-all-be-all measure of artistic merit... nor is it always a positive development. Some innovations have more worth than others. Across the scope of history, the most iconoclastic innovators were not always the greatest artists. J.S. Bach was not a great inventor of new forms, new structures, new combinations of instruments. Rather, he took existing forms to an unimagined level of complexity and emotional expressiveness. If I turn to the visual arts of the 20th century, I find that the aforementioned Kurt Schwitters and Marcel Duchamp were far more iconoclastic... and in this sense far more innovative than Matisse and even Picasso, yet only a purblind would argue that Schwitters or Duchamp were the greater artists based upon the existing work.
> 
> What you are confusing with you emphasis upon innovation is that it is largely irrelevant to the experience of the art work... and moreso with the passage of time. What matters is not who came up with the latest clever idea, but rather who put this... or any other ideas to the best use in creating a work of art. I don't enjoy listening to Beethoven's 9th Symphony because I recognize its innovation in the use of the choral finale. I listen to it because it is a beautiful work of music. When I look to the greatest Renaissance painters I don't concern myself as to which painter was the most instrumental in the development of linear perspective, perhaps the single most important development of Renaissance painting, and the one that would dominate Western art until Modernist and Picasso. The reality is that linear perspective was largely codified by two architects, Filippo Brunelleschi & Leon Battista Albert... neither of whom are particularly known for their paintings. The greatest painter of the era, Michelangelo, made little use of perspective and yet towers over Ucello... the artist most obsessed with the idea.


I can mostly agree to this, though it does indicate some sort of bias as you imply that Varese's innovations are of much lesser importance or value than others. It is true that Varese was not the most innovative composer, though he definitely ranks among the greatest.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Where it makes you limited is that you presumed to make a value judgment about two composers that you knew nothing about and/or had little experience with...


This is not relevant nor very accurate. I can say that I really have not heard much of Alessandro's output aside from some cantatas, as I am not much of a fan of baroque opera for some reason. I have, however, listened to many of JC Bach's concertos, overtures, and an aria or two and I can honestly say that I don't really like him. Maybe it is that classical style in general, but I am just not that attracted to his works. I do like his _La Dolce Fiamma_ which you led me to and I thank you for that.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> and yet you presumed to call me ignorant in relation to Varèse... whose entire oeuvre I own and have listened to (not that such is all that time-consuming an achievement).


Yes, especially when you make such statements as "Varèse wrote music?" and this one:



StlukesguildOhio said:


> On the other hand, George Crumb, John Cage, Elliott Carter, Morton Feldmann, Pierre Boulez, Hans Werner Henze, Karl Hartmann, Kurt Weill, Erich Korngold, Ernst Krenek, Witold Lutoslawski, Toru Takemitsu, Alexander Zemlinsky, Mieczysław Weinberg, Giacinto Scelsi... all these 20th century composers and more strike me as having made a far greater contribution to music than Varèse.


Perhaps I should have made clearer that I did not think you did not listen to his works, rather his style and his importance in musical history. It is of course fine that you did not like his pieces, but to dismiss his contribution and influence to music is just plain ignorance.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> As i already noted, I left off voting for several composers whose works I greatly enjoy and who I recognize as being quite innovative for the simple reason that their achievements were simply not great enough to consider them among the greatest in the field. Again, by way of analogy, 3 sonnets and a ballad doesn't earn you a place along side Shakespeare, Homer, Dante, and Tolstoy.


Why didn't you vote for them? I'm sure most members just voted for their personal favorites, or composers that they felt are underrated. And no one said that Varese has a place besides Bach or Mozart (as of your post).


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## BurningDesire

Trout said:


> And no one said that Varese has a place besides Bach or Mozart.


I did.

Also I voted for ones that are brilliant, but never get any recognition, because they compose pop music, or write for ensembles resembling rock bands, or they write electronic music or video game music.


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## science

Edit: I'm sorry, it's not worthwhile.


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## SottoVoce

science said:


> Edit: I'm sorry, it's not worthwhile.


You're a good guy, science. Don't let these things get to you too much.


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## science

SottoVoce said:


> You're a good guy, science. Don't let these things get to you too much.


It's nice of you to say, and I hope I can make it true.


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## mmsbls

Overall I feel the list is quite reasonable, but I was surprised by some selections. In particular Hindemith came in at 94 in our list but placed in the top 50 on Goudling's List, the DDD list, and the Western Kentucky list. I have no strong feeling that Hindemith ought to have been placed higher, but the low position does surprise me.

Were other people surprised by certain composer rankings? I'm not asking if people believe the rankings should be different, but rather are they surprised by certain composer rankings (whether they made the list or not)?


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## StlukesguildOhio

Trout- I can say that I really have not heard much of Alessandro's output aside from some cantatas, as I am not much of a fan of baroque opera for some reason. I have, however, listened to many of JC Bach's concertos, overtures, and an aria or two and I can honestly say that I don't really like him. Maybe it is that classical style in general, but I am just not that attracted to his works. I do like his La Dolce Fiamma which you led me to and I thank you for that.

This statement I have no problem with. Of course it is simply a statement of your personal preferences. You don't particularly like Alessandro Scarlatti and/or the classical style in general just as I don't really like Varése and certain other Modern and Contemporary composers.

Perhaps I should have made clearer that I did not think you did not listen to his works, rather his style and his importance in musical history. It is of course fine that you did not like his pieces, but to dismiss his contribution and influence to music is just plain ignorance.

Of course it may be that I don't feel his contribution to music was necessarily a positive one... nor one that I imagine will have the greatest long-lasting effects. Considering that the history of "classical music" goes from Byzantine Chant through the present I'm not quick to overvalue every recent novelty.

_SLG (quote)- As i already noted, I left off voting for several composers whose works I greatly enjoy and who I recognize as being quite innovative for the simple reason that their achievements were simply not great enough to consider them among the greatest in the field._

Why didn't you vote for them? I'm sure most members just voted for their personal favorites, or composers that they felt are underrated.

The poll asked for our votes as to who are the 50 "greatest" composers. As much as I may like Pergolesi's Stabat Mater or Duparc's songs I didn't vote for them for the simple reason that I cannot justify suggesting that they are among the "greatest". I love Muddy Waters, the Louvin Brothers, and Dave Brubeck... but I'm not about to kid myself and argue that they are equal to Mozart. I think there is some merit in being able to recognize that what we like is not always analogous to what is "great". Having said that, my voting strategy was largely in line with giving support to the composers I most valued. At times this meant giving more points to a composer that was not necessarily in my opinion the greatest yet to have made the list, but rather was a composer I felt was grossly underrated. Only toward the end did I find myself compromising... voting for composers that I'm not big on one way or the other... solely in an effort to block others that I felt were grossly overrated. That, unfortunately, was the nature of the game.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Were other people surprised by certain composer rankings? I'm not asking if people believe the rankings should be different, but rather are they surprised by certain composer rankings (whether they made the list or not)?

Honestly, the relatively high ranking of Varése caught me off guard. His name has never before (in my memory) popped up in discussions at TC. Rather, I would have expected a far greater effort to push John Cage or Stockhausen (two proverbial whipping boys) or any number of other Modernists.


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## science

Surprised by how high they were: Vivaldi, J Strauss II, Chausson. (Fauré is oddly high, but that doesn't surprise me because I am largely responsible for that. I suppose it was innocuous enough not to attract the kind of opposition that Varèse, Messiaen, JC Bach, and Schoenberg got.) 

Surprised by how low they were: Carter most of all, because I thought he had more fans among us; also, Falla, Kodály, and maybe also Hindemith, Offenbach, and Gounod. I'm not so surprised that Hindemith didn't do well; I haven't seen a lot of talk about him. I think he may be another guy whose popularity is waning (as Berlioz' is).


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## Toddlertoddy

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Rather, I would have expected a far greater effort to push John Cage or *Stockhausen* (two proverbial whipping boys) or any number of other Modernists.


I attempted to do it, but there was no support and some were -3-ing them.


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## science

Toddlertoddy said:


> I attempted to do it, but there was no support and some were -3-ing them.


You were probably wise. It would've been a fight, and it wasn't worthwhile.


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## Arsakes

@BurningDesire
You have joined this forums just for a month and you already have so many posts!


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## DrHieronymusFaust

Rott · 10
von der Vogelweide · 9
Pachelbel · 8
Graun, C.H. · 7
Albinoni · 6
Takemitsu · 5
Weill · 4
Korngold · 3
Stockhausen · 2
Paganini · 1


Mustafi Mustafa Ibn Rashad Ibn Abu Ibn Rachmaninoff Ibn Mufasa Ibn Salamibutterbrot Ibn Telemann · -3


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## BurningDesire

DrHieronymusFaust said:


> Mustafi Mustafa Ibn Rashad Ibn Abu Ibn Rachmaninoff Ibn Mufasa Ibn Salamibutterbrot Ibn Telemann · -3


Is that an actual composer?


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## Toddlertoddy

BurningDesire said:


> Is that an actual composer?


Salami butterbrot.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Franklin Flabbergasted Fart (1900-2012) -3


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## Crudblud

^Fart's wind quintets are clearly the peak of the genre.


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## science

Well, I think they stink. I don't see how anyone familiar with Gass's experimental works, Sonatas & Interludes for Broken Winds, could prefer the old Farts.


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## DrHieronymusFaust

BurningDesire said:


> Is that an actual composer?


Yes, he composed a much longer version of 4'33"" entitled " ", but the problem is that a) it takes much too long to be performed and b) the performers must not be in the same room as the performance.


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## BurningDesire

I love this forum X3


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## Crudblud

science said:


> Well, I think they stink. I don't see how anyone familiar with Gass's experimental works, Sonatas & Interludes for Broken Winds, could prefer the old Farts.


Oh please, Gass is so full of himself. All this "organised wind" nonsense in the name of innovation for innovation's sake. Pish, I say! Where's the form, the structure, the quality? And you know, all of Gass' expulsions fit on 2 CDs, compare that with Fart's complete works available on 2000 CDs with hard cover booklet in three volumes of 1000 pages each, written by acclaimed critic Sir Jonanáthän de Égoisimus III.

I think you'll find Gass with his nonsense noise "music" is nothing more than a lazy charlatan.


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## BurningDesire

Crudblud said:


> Oh please, Gass is so full of himself. All this "organised wind" nonsense in the name of innovation for innovation's sake. Pish, I say! Where's the form, the structure, the quality? And you know, all of Gass' expulsions fit on 2 CDs, compare that with Fart's complete works available on 2000 CDs with hard cover booklet in three volumes of 1000 pages each, written by acclaimed critic Sir Jonanáthän de Égoisimus III.
> 
> I think you'll find Gass with his nonsense noise "music" is nothing more than a lazy charlatan.


Yeah, right up there with that weirdo Frank Crappa!


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## Crudblud

Stank Crappa and Craptain Peefart are just awful.


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## science

Crudblud said:


> Oh please, Gass is so full of himself. All this "organised wind" nonsense in the name of innovation for innovation's sake. Pish, I say! Where's the form, the structure, the quality? And you know, all of Gass' expulsions fit on 2 CDs, compare that with Fart's complete works available on 2000 CDs with hard cover booklet in three volumes of 1000 pages each, written by acclaimed critic Sir Jonanáthän de Égoisimus III.
> 
> I think you'll find Gass with his nonsense noise "music" is nothing more than a lazy charlatan.


2000 CDs? Three hardcover 1000 page booklets? I can find no way around that big fat rebuttal.

Still, world renowned bloggers Smeller and Thunderpants both consider Gass an important part of biggest movements in the music of the last century. His use of the winds as percussion, his surprising changes in pitch, his use of powerful silences. Fart's works were totally forgotten once they were blown away, but it's almost impossible to go to a performance without becoming aware of Gass's influence.


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## science

Worst thing is when you're there in the middle of the concert and you think it's Gass but halfway through the Adagio you realize it's L. F. Matter.


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## DrHieronymusFaust

Rott · 10
von der Vogelweide · 9
Pachelbel · 8
Graun, C.H. · 7
Albinoni · 6
Takemitsu · 5
Weill · 4
Korngold · 3
Stockhausen · 2
Paganini · 1


Samuel Salamander de Tausendsassa aka 'Bifi' · -3


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## clavichorder

I haven't been following very closely...was the great John Bull mentioned once in this thread?


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## JohnMinster

1. Beethoven
2. J.S. Bach
3. Handel
4. Mahler
5. Stravinsky
6. Mozart
7. Wagner
8. Debussy
9. Tchaikovsky
10. Bruckner
11. Shostakovich
12. Hindemith
13. Vaughan Williams
14. Monteverdi
15. Rameau
16. Corelli
17. Brahms
18. Arvo Part
19. Britten
20. Schubert


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## Pugg

JohnMinster said:


> 1. Beethoven
> 2. J.S. Bach
> 3. Handel
> 4. Mahler
> 5. Stravinsky
> 6. Mozart
> 7. Wagner
> 8. Debussy
> 9. Tchaikovsky
> 10. Bruckner
> 11. Shostakovich
> 12. Hindemith
> 13. Vaughan Williams
> 14. Monteverdi
> 15. Rameau
> 16. Corelli
> 17. Brahms
> 18. Arvo Part
> 19. Britten
> 20. Schubert


Wide range I see.


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## Guest

Bach is the best. Bach is the best. Bach is the best. Important things need to be said three times.


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## Op.123

Verdi - 10pts
Liszt - 9pts
Puccini - 8pts
Ravel - 7pts
Richard Strauss - 6pts
Brahms - 5pts
Bellini - 4pts
Chopin - 3pts
Tchaikovsky - 2pts
Stravinsky - 1pt

Handel - -3pts


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## Pugg

I do believe this thread stopt a while ago.


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