# Music



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Music: probably the most famous definition of this largely controversial and much debated art form would be "organised sound."

How would one organise sound? Easy, put a clef on a staff, add in a few dots and lines and Italian words; whatever the sounds one wishes to achieve is determined by the traditional factors that were favoured by almost 100% of the composers to this present day.

Now, going back to that definition of music as "organised sound," I have decided to organise my sound in such a way that it gives the performers [most of] the instructions on what notes to play, how to play them and when to play them in a piece of music called "Music." It's for two classical guitars in standard tuning and is a work in progress.

I hereby present you with an excerpt of the score.

MUSIC

Guitar 1 part

[A] 20 seconds (0" to 20")
• Very quiet. Play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Begin slowly and let every note ring on. Over the course of the 20 seconds gradually speed up.
• In the last 5 seconds, get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo.
* 10 seconds (20" to 30")
• Do not play for 5 seconds
• Knock the back of the guitar loudly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.
[C] 15 seconds (30" to 45")
• In time with Guitar 2: Fairly quickly and at a moderately loud dynamic play three low harmonics rising in pitch across three different strings and let them ring on to make these notes last for 3 seconds
• Do the same but with higher harmonics (not necessarily on the same three strings) and let these ring to make these notes last for 3 seconds again.
• Play three new fairly quick higher rising harmonics across three strings and do the same thing again but even higher after only letting the previous three harmonics ring for one second. Let the second group of three harmonics ring for 8 seconds

-------------

MUSIC

Guitar 2 part

[A] 20 seconds (0" to 20")
• Very quiet. Play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Begin slowly and let every note ring on. Over the course of the 20 seconds gradually speed up.
• In the last 5 seconds, get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo.
 10 seconds (20" to 30")
• Play any stopped single note on the E string from the 1st to 5th frets Bartok pizzicato and fortissimo. Cut the sound so it does not ring on and remain silent for the rest of this section.
[C] 15 seconds (30" to 45")
• In time with Guitar 1: Fairly quickly and at a moderately loud dynamic play three low harmonics descending in pitch across three different strings and let them ring on to make these notes last for 3 seconds
• Do the same but with higher harmonics (not necessarily on the same three strings) and let these ring to make these notes last for 3 seconds again.
• Play three new fairly quick higher descending harmonics across three strings and do the same thing again but even higher after only letting the previous three harmonics ring for one second. Let the second group of three harmonics ring for 3 seconds.
• Knock the back of the guitar quietly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.

-----------------

So yeah, that's the piece so far, probably will be around 4 minutes long. I plan to play around with concepts of spacial elements (such as the  section), measuring time and rhythm in different ways and so on.

Honesty at this stage I am feeling just a little stuck so...feedback is welcome. *


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## Aramis

A REPLY 

User 1 part

• In two sentences, fairy friendly in tone, suggest that it would be cooperative work rather than COAG's own. 
• With 84 letters, including no more than seven z's, argument that COAG only provides a frame for the musicians and they, though largely restricted, fill it by themselves
• Say, throwing in some Old English vocabulary, that what COAG presents might be closer to precisely described idea for composition rather than true composition
• Send well-mannered regards to thread's author


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## aleazk

How do you "get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo" using only harmonics?. It's been years since the last time I picked up a guitar, but as far as I remember, harmonics do not sound very loud. I guess you would get something like: pp -> mp perhaps, and then your ff.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

aleazk said:


> How do you "get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo" using only harmonics?. It's been years since the last time I picked up a guitar, but as far as I remember, harmonics do not sound very loud. I guess you would get something like: pp -> mp perhaps, and then your ff.


Yes I had been thinking over that actually....I suppose there would be a gap in terms of dynamics, but it is my intention to make * feel extremely sudden and it is a stark contrast to [A] and anyway, Australian guitars can play so much louder than those silly Spanish designs that can't play anything over a timid mf. *


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Aramis said:


> A REPLY
> 
> User 1 part
> 
> • In two sentences, fairy friendly in tone, suggest that it would be cooperative work rather than COAG's own.
> • With 84 letters, including no more than seven z's, argument that COAG only provides a frame for the musicians and they, though largely restricted, fill it by themselves
> • Say, throwing in some Old English vocabulary, that what COAG presents might be closer to precisely described idea for composition rather than true composition
> • Send well-mannered regards to thread's author


It is indeed a true composition of my own actually, over the course of history you would find that music had varying levels of "composer's control" and "performer's control," just compare Bach's BWV1080 with Wagner's Ring Cycle! All I have done in this case is give the performers more control. In essence it is a semi-improvised piece, like jazz, and later on I even plan to reference jazz with the instruction to "quote a well known jazz standard."

Very witty reply by the way, I liked it.


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## aleazk

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Yes I had been thinking over that actually....I suppose there would be a gap in terms of dynamics, but it is my intention to make * feel extremely sudden and it is a stark contrast to [A] and anyway, Australian guitars can play so much louder than those silly Spanish designs that can't play anything over a timid mf. *


*

I just checked, I got pppp -> ppp :lol:. Maybe you can use distorted electric guitars. *


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

aleazk said:


> I just checked, I got pppp -> ppp :lol:. Maybe you can use distorted electric guitars.


How many pesos did you pay for that guitar? :lol:


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## aleazk

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> How many pesos did you pay for that guitar? :lol:


Nothing really. It's my flatmate's guitar... he uses it to play predictable CPT chord sequences in the context of popular music.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

aleazk said:


> Nothing really. It's my flatmate's guitar... he uses it to play predictable CPT chord sequences in the context of popular music.


Have it destroyed! From what you tell me, I understand that it is contemptible sh¡t!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Okay the piece is finished.

MUSIC

Guitar 1 part

[A] 20 seconds (00" to 20")
• Very quiet. Play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Begin slowly and let every note ring on. Over the course of the 20 seconds gradually speed up.
• In the last 5 seconds, get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo.
* 10 seconds (20" to 30")
• Do not play for 5 seconds
• Knock the back of the guitar loudly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.
[C] 15 seconds (30" to 45")
• In time with Guitar 2: Fairly quickly and at a moderately loud dynamic play three low harmonics rising in pitch across three different strings and let them ring on to make these notes last for 3 seconds
• Do the same but with higher harmonics (not necessarily on the same three strings) and let these ring to make these notes last for 3 seconds again.
• Play three new fairly quick higher rising harmonics across three strings and do the same thing again but even higher after only letting the previous three harmonics ring for one second. Let the second group of three harmonics ring for 8 seconds
[D] 30 seconds (45" to 1'15")
• Fairly quickly and at a moderately loud dynamic, play the same pitch twice in the top octave of the guitar followed by a long note a semitone lower. Do this for another four times within the duration of this section.
• Dynamics should get louder when the pitches played are higher and softer when the pitches are lower, but the overall dynamic range should be small to moderate.
[E] 15 seconds (1'15" to 1'30")
• For the first 12 seconds: play whichever the last note of the previous section was over and over rapidly. Crescendo and decrescendo throughout this section, but the crescendos should be played when Guitar 2 decrescendos and, similarly, decrescendos should be played when Guitar 1 crescendos.
• For the last 3 seconds: Crescendo on this note, playing it over and over rapidly.
[F] 20 seconds (1'30" to 1'50")
• Very loudly strum every open string with the backs of the fingernails on all fingers apart from the thumb. Cut the sound for 5 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 4 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 3 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 2 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 1 second.
• Knock the back of the guitar loudly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.
[G] 10 seconds (1'50" to 2'00")
• Very quietly and very slowly, play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Let every note ring on and make sure not to be consistent with note durations.
[H] 15 seconds (2'00" to 2'15")
• For the first 12 seconds: play whichever the last note of the previous section was over and over rapidly as a normal stopped note and at a moderate dynamic level. Crescendo and decrescendo throughout this section, but the crescendos should be played when Guitar 2 decrescendos and, similarly, decrescendos should be played when Guitar 1 crescendos.
• For the last 3 seconds: Crescendo on this note, playing it over and over rapidly.
 15 seconds (2'15" to 2'30")
• Build a "power chord" on the bottom three strings that includes the note played in the previous section and strum it once very loudly with the thumbnail. Play this directly after Guitar 2 plays and cut the sound immediately.
• Continue to strum this chord very loudly with the thumbnail another four times but only a very short time after Guitar 2 plays.
[J] 30 seconds (2'30" to 3'00")
• Strum this power chord over and over rapidly and very loudly. Slide the power chord up and down the neck of the guitar, changing direction at any time. Keep the dynamic and speed of the strumming consistent for the entire 30 seconds of this section.
[K] 50 seconds (3'00" to 3'50")
• Cut the sound from the previous section and don't play anything for up to 3 seconds
• For the remainder of the section play any notes very slowly and very quietly on any string and higher than the 10th fret. Make sure not to play the same note twice and only play one new note after Guitar 2 plays one new note. The effect should be that between the two guitarists, each should play one note at a time (i.e. Guitar 1 plays a note, then Guitar 2, then Guitar 1, then Guitar 2 and so on).
[L] 10 seconds (3'50" to 4'00")
• Play the last note played in the previous section quietly and in time with Guitar 2. Let it ring on for 5 seconds.
• Knock the back of the guitar quietly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.

-------------------

MUSIC

Guitar 2 part

[A] 20 seconds (0" to 20")
• Very quiet. Play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Begin slowly and let every note ring on. Over the course of the 20 seconds gradually speed up.
• In the last 5 seconds, get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo.
 10 seconds (20" to 30")
• Play any stopped single note on the E string from the 1st to 5th frets Bartok pizzicato and fortissimo. Cut the sound so it does not ring on and remain silent for the rest of this section.
[C] 15 seconds (30" to 45")
• In time with Guitar 1: Fairly quickly and at a moderately loud dynamic play three low harmonics descending in pitch across three different strings and let them ring on to make these notes last for 3 seconds
• Do the same but with higher harmonics (not necessarily on the same three strings) and let these ring to make these notes last for 3 seconds again.
• Play three new fairly quick higher descending harmonics across three strings and do the same thing again but even higher after only letting the previous three harmonics ring for one second. Let the second group of three harmonics ring for 3 seconds.
• Knock the back of the guitar quietly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.
[D] 30 seconds (45" to 1'15")
• Play any quiet long notes tasto within the lowest octave of the guitar and without repeating the same note twice, make every note sustain for a few seconds but keep the durations fairly inconsistent. Dynamics should not change.
[E] 15 seconds (1'15" to 1'30")
• For the first 12 seconds: play whichever the last note of the previous section was over and over rapidly. Crescendo and decrescendo throughout this section, but the crescendos should be played when Guitar 1 decrescendos and, similarly, decrescendos should be played when Guitar 1 crescendos.
• For the last 3 seconds: Crescendo on this note, playing it over and over rapidly.
[F] 20 seconds (1'30" to 1'50")
• Bar the first fret and very loudly strum every string with the backs of the fingernails on all fingers apart from the thumb directly after Guitar 1 plays. Cut the sound immediately.
• Continue to strum this chord another four times but only a very short time after Guitar 1 plays, each time cutting the sound immediately.
• Knock the back of the guitar loudly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.
[G] 10 seconds (1'50" to 2'00")
• Very quietly and very slowly, play any harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets on the 4th, 5th and 6th strings one at a time and never repeating the same harmonic twice. Let every note ring on and make sure not to be consistent with note durations.
[H] 15 seconds (2'00" to 2'15")
• For the first 12 seconds: play whichever the last note of the previous section was over and over rapidly as a normal stopped note and at a moderate dynamic level. Crescendo and decrescendo throughout this section, but the crescendos should be played when Guitar 1 decrescendos and, similarly, decrescendos should be played when Guitar 1 crescendos.
• For the last 3 seconds: Crescendo on this note, playing it over and over rapidly.
 15 seconds (2'15" to 2'30")
• Build a "power chord" on the bottom three strings that includes the note played in the previous section and strum it once very loudly with the thumbnail. Cut the sound for 5 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 4 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 3 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 2 seconds.
• Do the same. This time cut the sound for 1 second.
[J] 30 seconds (2'30" to 3'00")
• Don't play anything for between 5 and 10 seconds
• At a very loud dynamic (and with heavy vibrato if possible), quote a well-known jazz standard for the remainder of this section.
[K] 50 seconds (3'00" to 3'50")
• Cut the sound from the previous section and don't play anything for up to 3 seconds
• For the remainder of the section play any notes very slowly and very quietly on any string and higher than the 10th fret. Make sure not to play the same note twice and only play one new note after Guitar 1 plays one new note. The effect should be that between the two guitarists, each should play one note at a time (i.e. Guitar 1 plays a note, then Guitar 2, then Guitar 1, then Guitar 2 and so on).
[L] 10 seconds (3'50" to 4'00")
• Play the last note played in the previous section quietly and in time with Guitar 2. Let it ring on for 5 seconds.
• Knock the back of the guitar quietly with the right hand. Let this ring on for 5 seconds.*


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## PetrB

aleazk said:


> How do you "get louder and louder in preparation for a fortissimo" using only harmonics?. It's been years since the last time I picked up a guitar, but as far as I remember, harmonics do not sound very loud. I guess you would get something like: pp -> mp perhaps, and then your ff.


Harmonics both physically and acoustically tend to be not too loud, and although 'clear' their nature is also a bit weirdly diffuse. I imagine some very deft application of an amp pedal right after the their execution might do the trick.


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## PetrB

You do realize that other than for guitarists who know all about the notation, positioning, what string is being used for the activity -- and the rare and small number of composers who happen to know guitar and or harp so thoroughly they do not have to directly consult with a player -- you've basically shown the rest of us a sketch for a play which is written in a language we can not read? 

Looking forward to a recorded performance once you settle your score and get it realized.


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## PetrB

"• Build a "power chord" on the bottom three strings that includes the note played in the previous section and strum it once very loudly with the thumbnail. Play this directly after Guitar 2 plays and cut the sound immediately."

I would love for you to eliminate the pop term, (or misnomer) of "Power Chord" and say instead, "Build an octave plus the fifth on the bottom three strings that includes....

Then I have a question, dependent upon how much you want to determine,

"that included *the* note played just before." 
Okeedoh, which of the two then, the octave or the fifth, is to be 'the note played just before' -- or does the player choose?

This is bound to be a question from the players or conductor in rehearsal which you may want to clear up in the score (you will not always be in attendance or available to answer the less obvious or unclear as so written.)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

The player chooses, PetrB, and also I've spoken to guitar teachers about the use of that misnomer and generally it's okay to use (less words in total this making the instructions simpler).


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## PetrB

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The player chooses, PetrB, and also I've spoken to guitar teachers about the use of that misnomer and generally it's okay to use (less words in total this making the instructions simpler).


As long as player choice is explicit.

Power chord: Yeah, I know slang is often briefer than the more accurate and accepted term --that's why slang ends up in circulation and print


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## Lunasong

So happy that I understood the instructions. I now want to cut and paste them linearly so I can see what each instrument is doing in each time frame, so I can see how they work together. This will really help conceptualize the piece.


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## Lunasong

I've done this now and it takes 9 feet of hallway to lay the piece out if one uses 8-1/2" width paper.

I noted that sections A-G, E-H, F-I and B-L are similar whilst C, D, J, & K appear to be unique. 

In your use of indeterminism, are you hoping the musicians arrive at some pleasing consensus during rehearsal or do you intend every run-though (including performance) to be different? Do you want each to play to synchronized timepieces or are the times a guide to rehearsal?

I think the effect of the two guitars playing off each other is dynamic and I would be excited to see as well as hear this performance.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Thanks for the reply, Lunasong! 

It is usually with works such as this (also a lot of scores which use graphic notation) that the players would often go away with the score and write fragments of their interpretation of it out in traditional notation to help them conceptualise the piece in a more comprehensible way to a musician for performance. I intend this step to be up to the performers, it's an interpretative process in the same vein as what a conductor does when rehearsing an orchestra. 

It will be of enormous help to the musicians to have a stopwatch in front of them whilst performing the piece, I can't imagine that anyone can count accurate seconds in their head at all when playing music.


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