# Are there pieces you know or think you should like but...............



## Westindieman (Nov 8, 2018)

I love the Music of Mahler amongst other great composers. I love symphonies 1,2,6,7,9,10. 3 I have rarely listened to due to the length possibly so I usually haven't got past the 3rd movement. The 8th I have listened to and can recall the 1st movement when I think of the symphony and think I would like the whole if I listened to it more often. The 4th and 5th however, I can see they are rated highly and I have listened to from start to finish and feel similar to other music I enjoy and love but they are yet to grip me in anyway at all. 
Is the music you guys listened to and think you should like but it doesn't grab you as you believe it should?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Numerous examples. Almost all my favourite composers have also produced works that do not resonate with me (and I'm talking about works of substance, not musical doodles).

In addition, there are famous composers that I don't particularly like even though "logic" would dictate that I should. For instance: Bach is my #1, Handel I can do without completely.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I don't understand the concept of "should like".


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Fabulin said:


> I don't understand the concept of "should like".


The way I see it is, everyone likes it and I don't, and I wonder what I'm missing, so I keep listening, then eventually give up in frustration. My nonclassical example is Coltrane's A Love Supreme. I've listen to it once a year every year since 1975, and it still doesn't grab me.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

One of the beauties of CM is that there are few pieces that "everyone" likes. -- and there is no compelling authority that says you have to. I used to like some Wagner, but rarrely listen anymore (sorry, Wooduck). Bruckner has never spoken to me in 50 years but I don't hide behind parked cars when a Bruckner symphony comes my way. Personaql taste is just that.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

MarkW said:


> Bruckner has never spoken to me in 50 years.


I'm afraid he will likely never speak to you again. Mr. Brückner sadly passed away on the 11th of October 1896.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There's a lot of music that I "should" like, or in the opinion of others, if you're a classical listener, then the question is "how can you not like such and such?" I don't even think they're blind spots and it's certainly not lack of exposure. Things that I just don't appreciate:

Schubert 9th symphony - long and boring.
Baroque music - practically all of it.
Haydn trumpet concerto - is one work I utterly despise. Can't stand it.
Mozart - any opera. Some of the overtures are ok. He should have stopped there.
Verdi - Aida.
Mendelssohn - Elijah.
Brahms - Tragic Overture. It's even worse playing it than having to sit through a performance.

Just a few of "great" music I don't take to. On the other hand, people can't figure out what I find so great in Schmidt, Elgar, Pfitzner, Kalinnikov, Rontgen, Widor, Raff........


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I would frame this question differently: is there music that does and does not speak to me? The answer is yes even sometimes via interpretation. I have found it can take a certain kind of interpretation for a piece of music to speak to me. 

This was the case with the Mahler Third Symphony; in a Mahler exploration period 15 years ago I listened to several famous recordings and didn't get what it was trying to tell me. It just seemed to be a gigantic jumble of unrelated sounds. Then I heard Barbirolli's and I understood it. I still didn't like it so I didn't go further but I got what the composer was doing both technically (a cantata inside a symphony) and emotionally (a bunch of things mystical and earthbound typical of Mahler.)

Other times it is a matter of my continued exposure to music to hear what other people hear. This for me was the case with the Sibelius Seventh Symphony. Even though it is relatively brief at less than 25 minutes and is written in a continuous movement I couldn't understand what was going on, what the composer was saying, and the technique of the thing. But eventually, after listening to 4 or 5 different interpretations, I got it. Now I understand it technically (started out life as a symphonic poem or similar and became Symphony 7) and emotionally (it's been called springtime in Finland among other things). Furthermore, I love it and have to fight with myself not to overplay it.

Still another example if J.S. Bach's Goldberg variations. I have no doubt in my mind this is a masterpiece of construction with probably only Beethoven's similar Diabelli variations being in the same class. But, much as I have always loved Bach, I never heard what other people loved in the Goldbergs. It seemed too long, too repetitive, too much for me to endure. It bored me. After a half-century, however, I finally found a recording I love. It just came out recently, it cuts all the repeats so it's only about 30 minutes' duration, and it is played by four woodwinds, instruments whose timbre have special affect on me. Now, in this arena, I hear what everyone else has heard for centuries.

To paraphrase, music speaks to me and sometimes it takes a bunch of different voices to hear what it's saying and/or what other people hear. Other times it just takes a lot of listening, reading about it, and thinking about it.

One thing I've learned along the way -- never completely dismiss something the first time you hear it or think the love you have for it right away will endure over years. For me it has often been the music hardest to "get" that has paid the greatest dividends over time. 

This is the case with some of my favorite music -- Bruckner Symphony 5, Sibelius 4 and 7, Mahler 7, Elgar 2, Berg Chamber Concerto for Violin, Piano and 13 Winds, Smetana Ma Vlast, Liszt tone poems among others. None of these came to me easily.

On the other hand a lot of music that came to me immediately and with fervor, especially when I was new at classical music, I never listen to anymore out of boredom, overconsumption or they no longer satisy me emotionally or challenge me intellectually.

Classical music is a lifelong journey with lots of surprises along the way. Not getting, knowing or hearing what other people hear right away is part of the journey.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

larold said:


> To paraphrase, music speaks to me and sometimes it takes a bunch of different voices to hear what it's saying and/or what other people hear. Other times it just takes a lot of listening, reading about it, and thinking about it.
> 
> One thing I've learned along the way -- never completely dismiss something the first time you hear it or think the love you have for it right away will endure over years. For me it has often been the music hardest to "get" that has paid the greatest dividends over time.


That's what I would have said if I were eloquent. :tiphat:


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Beethoven's Fur Elise, Mussorgsky's Pictures At An Exhibition, Schumann's Second Symphony---works I've never cared for that quite a few others have liked. I can only assume nearly everybody at one time or another has dealt with similar issues regarding their own feelings about particular compositions, artists, etc. Time is better spent on what one enjoys. If and when you eventually experience a change in emotion or attitude toward something you had previously disliked, you can rejoice in it. For many years, I could not stand Mozart. Then, while listening to a performance of his clarinet quintet I underwent a striking reversal of feeling. This expanded to include a good number of the composer's chamber pieces. With very few exceptions, I'm still not attracted to his symphonies, even those considered by many to be among his greatest. Who knows? Maybe one day that will change. Until then, there's plenty to explore in the vast musical universe.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm not sure there are currently works that I don't like but feel I "should" like. Certainly I often felt that in the past. I was quite surprised when I first heard Beethoven's Grosse Fuge. I loved Beethoven but distinctly did not enjoy that work. Eventually I managed to learn to like it, and now it is one of my favorite quartets. Similarly, when I came to TC, people discussed Berg's Violin Concerto as though it were one of the greatest concertos. My wife plays violin, I adore violin concertos, but that concerto sounded random to me. I couldn't understand how others liked it. Again, further listening allowed me to eventually find the concerto enjoyable, and now it is one of my favorites.

There are plenty of works that I don't enjoy, but I'm not sure I would say I think I should. Ferneyhough's quartets would be an example. I'm not sure extended listening will always allow me to learn to enjoy works, but so far, it has done wonders.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Two strategies for getting into a work that doesn't seem to resonate. Keep listening to the recording you have, or put it on the shelf and try a different conductor/orchestra. Many times the latter will do the trick. That's what streaming sites are for.


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## Texas Chain Saw Mazurka (Nov 1, 2009)

Mahler, but I'm working on it.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

My implacable indifference to Wagner and Brahms knows no bounds.


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## Phil in Magnolia (Oct 6, 2017)

I've always felt that I should enjoy, or at least learn to appreciate, Wagners Ring. So far I've failed to make much of an effort to listen to it sufficiently to learn the music, which I am anticipating would lead to some degree of appreciation . . .


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Brahmsian Colors said:


> Beethoven's Fur Elise...


No one should feel that they ought to like "Fur Elise." On the contrary, we should all petition our local authorities to pass ordinances identifying it as a public nuisance and forbidding the playing of it at such volume as can be heard through an open window by pedestrians from a distance of more than ten feet.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm very omnivorous in my tastes in classical music, but I can't take Rossini. It drives me absolutely mad, in a way no other composer can manage. Friends know not to mention his name around me. Most of Verdi is also a no-go for me (although I like _Simon Boccanegra_ very much, and there are some isolated moments in other operas like _Otello_ that I'm keen on). Maybe I just don't like 19th c Italian opera.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I'm also in the "there is no such thing as should like" camp. I admire Bach greatly, and his music is mentally stimulating to me, but I don't really like his music in emotional terms. If I never listen to Bach again, I don't think I would ever miss his music. The same applies to late period Beethoven, to Chopin, Rachmaninov and many others.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MrMeatScience said:


> I'm very omnivorous in my tastes in classical music, *but I can't take Rossini*. It drives me absolutely mad, in a way no other composer can manage. Friends know not to mention his name around me. Most of Verdi is also a no-go for me (although I like _Simon Boccanegra_ very much, and there are some isolated moments in other operas like _Otello_ that I'm keen on). Maybe I just don't like 19th c Italian opera.


Do you have similar distaste for Bellini and Donizetti? I like both of them but find Rossini hard to take in quantity.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Phil in Magnolia said:


> I've always felt that I should enjoy, or at least learn to appreciate, Wagners Ring. So far I've failed to make much of an effort to listen to it sufficiently to learn the music, which I am anticipating would lead to some degree of appreciation . . .


It is a big time commitment but well worth it. Start here:


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## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

I tend to have an appreciation for a wide range of composers and there is much music that I love in several composers that others seem to have an even deeper appreciation for than I do - like Mahler. There is certainly, to me, an amount of burnout with composers and Mahler seems to be at the top of the list and I listened to a lot of Mahler in my earliest days of discovering his symphonies. I don't think I could attend another concert with a Mahler symphony on the program. However despite this I enjoy his music as much as anyone when the mood strikes. 
I wonder more why others aren't as keen on composers for which I do have a deeper appreciation for than most - like Liszt. To paraphrase someone on TC -- if you believe Liszt is only superficial and flashy, you just aren't listening enough as there are probably more deeper heartfelt works in his catalog than what is generally recognized.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Mozart - any opera. Some of the overtures are ok. He should have stopped there.


That one made me choke on my coffee--good post.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

This is a question that’s discouraging to read the answers. Why? Because it’s discouraging to read how abruptly dismissive some are about the immortals who have written volumes of incredible music and yet some listeners can barely find anything or nothing to enjoy out of hundreds of works, and I mean by the biggest of names. I find it depressing to read and it’s a downer, not these great composers but their listeners who have found little or nothing. But I suppose that’s why the dry martini was invented.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> No one should feel that they ought to like "Fur Elise." On the contrary, we should all petition our local authorities to pass ordinances identifying it as a public nuisance and forbidding the playing of it at such volume as can be heard through an open window by pedestrians from a distance of more than ten feet.


same with the "Tacobell" canon....


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I couldn't care less whether others think I should like something or not....but there are works by some of my favorite composers that just don't connect for me:
Sibelius Sym #6.....I love Sibelius, but this one comes off as a real misfire for me....goes nowhere, uninteresting, to me.

Bruckner Sym #5 - big, sprawly, disjointed, just doesn't flow like some of B's masterpieces....

Tchaikovsky - Syms 4, 5....I freely admit that my dislike comes from massive overexposure as a performer....every conductor, every NEW conductor always had to program these warhorses within the first two seasons....enough already.....i enjoy PIT Syms 1, 2, 3 much more - both to hear and to perform.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Do you have similar distaste for Bellini and Donizetti? I like both of them but find Rossini hard to take in quantity.


I enjoy them both much more, particularly Donizetti. I was shocked how much I enjoyed L'elisir when I heard it at the Staatsoper last season. It had a certain dramatic tautness that a lot of 19th c opera doesn't. He's definitely first-rate in my book. The only Bellini I know well is _Norma_, which I enjoy but don't turn to frequently. Any suggestions?


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

The pieces I know I should like but ..........

Mahler's Third and Eighth Symphonies. Just like the opening post. I just lose the thread in both. I like all the other symphonies of Mahler but these two I just can't seem to enjoy. 

And why is it that I like most of Mahler but not any of Bruckner? I know I should like the music of Bruckner but ..........

I like a lot of the music of Mozart. I know I should like the piano concerti but ..........

I like a lot of music of Bach. I know I should like the keyboard music but ..........


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

> Quote Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
> Mozart - any opera. Some of the overtures are ok. He should have stopped there.





Blancrocher said:


> That one made me choke on my coffee--good post.


I bought one Mozart opera but am not sure why. I avoid Mozart operas because Ludwig van Beethoven told me they are trashy subject matter.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Texas Chain Saw Mazurka said:


> Mahler, but I'm working on it.


What it took for me to get into Mahler was a live performance (can't remember but was either the 1st or the 5th, though I really went for the Beethoven symphony that was the main feature of the concert). Then a few months later it hit me like a ton of bricks and Mahler is one of my favorite symphonic composers.

So, the more general lesson, if there is a work you are not getting into but want to get into, try a live performance. Not always possible, but when it is, go for it. And if that bombs out it is either that you don't care for the work or the orchestra was just not very good (shame on them!).


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Larkenfield said:


> This is a question that's discouraging to read the answers. Why? Because it's discouraging to read how abruptly dismissive some are about the immortals who have written volumes of incredible music and yet some listeners can barely find anything or nothing to enjoy out of hundreds of works, and I mean by the biggest of names. I find it depressing to read and it's a downer, not these great composers but their listeners who have found little or nothing. But I suppose that's why the dry martini was invented.


On the bright side, there are many great composers and works so that even if someone is knee jerk dismissive (as I am with Mozart), they should still hit upon a lot of great music to keep they happy for decades. Maybe some day the dismissed work will click for them.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MrMeatScience said:


> I enjoy them both much more, particularly Donizetti. I was shocked how much I enjoyed L'elisir when I heard it at the Staatsoper last season. It had a certain dramatic tautness that a lot of 19th c opera doesn't. He's definitely first-rate in my book. The only Bellini I know well is _Norma_, which I enjoy but don't turn to frequently. *Any suggestions?*


My absolute favorite opera of all time is Bellini's La Sonnambula. See my signature for a foretaste of the delights this quaint and beautiful opera has to offer.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Fritz Kobus said:


> My absolute favorite opera of all time is Bellini's La Sonnambula. See my signature for a foretaste of the delights this quaint and beautiful opera has to offer.


Norma, Sonnambula, Beatrice, Puritani, etc. Bellini is the greatest of the Italian opera.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Brahms symphonies, for some reason. Italian operas, often. Long-lasting solo harpsichord recitals. Wobbly vocalists, or those with poor foreign-language diction. Electronic music, mostly. Counter-tenors. Accordeons. Paganini. Gottschalk. Gregorian chant. Callas. Ferrier, mostly. Knappertsbusch. Rossini's Messe Solonelle. Hindemith Ludus Tonalis.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

for those struggling with long works - Mahler Sym#3, Wagner operas, etc...don't try to swallow the whole thing at once...for M3, listen just the 1st mvt [35'], the shorter middle movements...the great Adagio is worth a listen just by itself...quite magnificent in the right hands...smaller chunks works well...
Boris Goldovsky, the great opera guru, recounted a personal experience in his autobiography....he simply couldn't get into Act III of Parsifal....he'd go to live performances of the opera, by the time he got to Act III, he was done...his teacher, Enesco, iirc, advised him...next time, skip acts 1 and 2....go to the opera house in time for just Act III....it worked!! fresh ears did it for him....for Wagner, just take in one act, or even just a couple scenes at a time.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm at a low point for appreciating Bach's cello suites. Probably just need a new recording...


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Heck148 said:


> for those struggling with long works - Mahler Sym#3, Wagner operas, etc...don't try to swallow the whole thing at once...for M3, listen just the 1st mvt [35'], the shorter middle movements...the great Adagio is worth a listen just by itself...quite magnificent in the right hands...smaller chunks works well...
> Boris Goldovsky, the great opera guru, recounted a personal experience in his autobiography....he simply couldn't get into Act III of Parsifal....he'd go to live performances of the opera, by the time he got to Act III, he was done...his teacher, Enesco, iirc, advised him...next time, skip acts 1 and 2....go to the opera house in time for just Act III....it worked!! fresh ears did it for him....for Wagner, just take in one act, or even just a couple scenes at a time.


I agree that small chunks work very well for large works. It helped me get into Bruckner.


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## Westindieman (Nov 8, 2018)

Why would it depress you what others like or not? Surely if you like it that is the most important thing?


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## Westindieman (Nov 8, 2018)

Fabulin said:


> I don't understand the concept of "should like".


Those Mahler symphonies particularly the 5th is like a lot of other symphonies I do like. Among what mbhaud has stated he founds great is Elgar. I now love both Elgars symphonies and can hardly put them down from start to finish. However I recall it took me a while of listening until they smacked and smote me, one day it just happened. I don't understand why this hasn't happened with Mahlers 5th, I think I should like it because I like other similar classical music.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Rossini too for me. I like some individual arias and overtures, but a whole Rossini opera is like eating too much dessert. 

Although I generally don't like comic opera that much. I'd certainly like Figaro a lot more if he started to wield that razor more... creatively. Bartolo and Basilio wouldn't be a great loss to the world. 

Also not a big fan of Fidelio. All that build-up and then nobody even dies? Still, out all all operatic Leonoras/Leonores, this one is probably the smartest.

Les Huguenots bores me to tears. There's certainly some pretty music but dear LORD does it go on forever. Also, the damn ballet. Whoever made it mandatory for French grand opera to have ballet should be retroactively bitchslapped.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Quite a few, but they usually come more with composers and performers rather than works. Probably the most beloved works that I feel I "should" like but can't get into are Mozart's operas and piano concerti. Also Elgar's cello concerto, and Tchaikovsky and Berg's violin concerti.


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