# Aram Khachaturyan (1903 - 1978)



## Tapkaara

*Aram Khachaturian*

A great composer, a modern throwback to the days of the Russian "Mighty Handful."

Often overshadowed by the two great Soviet composers Shostakovich and Prokofiev, Khachaturian is often dismissed as shallow, tacky and generally unimportant. I disagree fully.

Khachaturian had a gift for lush orchestration and he could write gorgeous melodies. He notably wrote three symphonies, three concerti, music for ballet, piano, wind band and the list goes on.

I particularly enjoy his 3rd Symphony, music from the ballet Gayne, and his Piano Concerto.

A much overlooked musical talent.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> three concerti,


Remember he also composed three Concert Rhapsodies, which I think also qualify as concertos.


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## Tapkaara

Yes, he did also compose three "concerto-rhapsodies". I'm not sure if there are generally considered to be concerti per se, but they are certainly concertante works and in one continuous movement. They are for piano, violin and the composer's own instrument, the cello.


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## Weston

I positively love the Adagio of Gayaneh from the ballet suites -- not just becasue a snippet was used in Kubrik's 2001:a space odyssey. I like to put it on when I'm emotionally down and just wallow in it. Consequently I usually like this played slower than it often is.

I know a lady acquaintance (not well - a friend of a friend) who claims to have met and maybe even studied under Khachaturian. She is a Russian immigrant and composer of some note. Though she does not seem very old, I suppose it's conceivable. Perhaps he still taught occassionally into the 1960's and 70's. Does anyone know?


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## Tapkaara

Khachaturian died in 1978, so I suppose it is possible. He was teacher, even in his later years, too.

The Adagio from Gayne is a beautifully melancholy little piece. It is used to great effect in 2001.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> Often overshadowed by the two great Soviet composers Shostakovich and Prokofiev






Tapkaara said:


> Khachaturian is often dismissed as shallow, tacky and generally unimportant.






Tapkaara said:


> A much overlooked musical talent.




I believe those rants are outdated.

Take a look at wikipedia:


Wikipedia said:


> He also held important posts at the Composers' Union, which would later severely denounce some of his works as being "formalist" music, along with those of Sergei Prokofiev and Dmitri Shostakovich. These three composers became the so called "titans" of Soviet music, enjoying world-wide reputation *as some of the leading composers of the 20th century*.


Lets check random biographies we get through google:



> *Much-loved* Soviet composer of Armenian background, who continued vein of colourful Russian exoticism from 19th century composers like Borodin and Rimsky-Korsakov





> The year 2003 is declared the year of Aram Khachaturian by the UNESCO, an honor that only outstanding personalities with remarkable contributions to the world's culture and arts have earned.
> Aram Khachaturian made a unique and historical contribution to the music.





> (Khachaturian) has left a deep legacy of innovation and organic synthesis of the Oriental and Western musical cultures.


Nowadays, whenever we are about to speak about Khachaturian, we don't need to construct a preface on the words "neglected, overlooked, ignored, overshadowed" anymore.


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## Tapkaara

Outdated rants? I garee that they are not only outdated, but they never were valid rants at any time...in the past or now.

True, in recent years, Khachaturian has gained even more popularity than when he was alive. There was even a documentray about his life that was made recent that aired here in the U.S., in Britain and other places.

Khachaturian's music is, perhaps, less challenging then that of Shosty or Proky, thus it is seen (by some) as "lesser." I fully reject the notion that music must be complex and un-tuneful to be thought of as "good." Not saying that Aram's music wasn't complex, but it certainly was the most accessible of the three.

Glad to see this composer has other supporters.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> Khachaturian's music is, perhaps, less challenging then that of Shosty or Proky, thus* it is seen (by some) as "lesser."*


Would you please be nice and give us some examples? I mean, which knowledgeable and relevant musical figure expresses in that way about Aram Khachaturian?


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## Tapkaara

I must admit that I do not have specific examples off the top of my head, but I've read comments from some people that Khachaturian is all glizt and no sunstance, to paraphrase.

I've done a lot of reading about Khachaturian (mostly online) and I've seen in other forums where people have dismissed him. I am afraid I did not take names, nor did I make exact notes of the comments in question.

Notwithstanding, I think it is safe to say most people only really know Shostakovich and Prokofiev's music while Khachaturian's art is an unknown to many. Shosty and Proky certainly have more CD releases.

Again, I apologize for not being able to bring any specifics to the table.


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## oisfetz

IMHO, Gayaneh,the violin and cello concertos and the awfully difficult piano sonata are 
some of the better music written in past century. The problem with him is that if you don't
like armenian melodies, you wouldn't like Aram music.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> Notwithstanding, I think it is safe to say most people only really know Shostakovich and Prokofiev's music *while Khachaturian's art is an unknown to many*.


But... if that is the case, then he is not underrated but under promoted; if the problem is that "his art is unknown to many". Those who ignore him can not _underestimate _his works, because they don't actually know them.


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## Tapkaara

Ysaye, my friend, I'm not exactly sure why you are trying to back me into a corner. You're making me sorry I brought any of this up.

I'm not looking to have someone parse every minute detail of my posts, I'm just trying to say I like Khacahturian. There are some that I have encountered who have heard him and don;t like him, and there are some I have encountered that have not heard him. You're reading too much into how I am writing m sentences and trying to pull out nuance that is not intended on my part.

The bottom line: I love Khachaturain and I'd like for this thread to become a discussion of his music, not a cross examination of my previous comments.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> Ysaye, my friend, I'm not exactly sure why you are trying to back me into a corner. You're making me sorry I brought any of this up.


I'm not against the subject, and I am not trying to stir your discomfort either. I was just pointing out that pulling out the "Khachaturian defender" badge is not necessary anymore, as he has already achieved the recognition he deserves. And I don't regard this event as a recent one, he was indeed famous in his time: his works were played (from the '50s onwards he would also work as a conductor), he knew and spent time with great Russian figures like Shostakovich, Oistrakh and Kogan. Come on, whenever someone recalls the famous Khrennikov public denounce this three names appear together: Shostakovich, Khachaturian and Prokofiev.



> IMHO, Gayaneh,the violin and cello concertos and the awfully difficult piano sonata are
> some of the better music written in past century. The problem with him is that if you don't
> like armenian melodies, you wouldn't like Aram music.


I love the tunes and the colorful orchestration, they fly you off to the Caucasus.

Those who enjoy the works of our Armenian friend should explore the musical output of the Georgian Alexi Matchavariani. His violin concerto is very _Kachaturianesque_ in style (you will find those pseudo oriental flute solos, for example), but the soloist makes a much more... polyphonic appearance.


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## Tapkaara

Very good, then, Ysaye.

I must admit I do not know Matchavariani, but it sounds great...I'll have to seek it out.

Another very "Khachaturianesque" composer is Manolis Kalomiris from Greece.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Tapkaara said:


> Another very "Khachaturianesque" composer is Manolis Kalomiris from Greece.


I never heard any of his works, I'll have to explore the matter.


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## confuoco

So, well. Let's say that Khachaturian has really excellent orchestration (in my opinion one of the best ever), original and not tiring melodic ideas based on Armenian folk music, his works are colourful and sometimes witty. But his music is appropriate mainly for fun and rest and lacks depth (includings also pieces like Adagio frm Spartacus.). By no means he can be equalized with Shostakovich. 

Another thing that shadows his works is that he made much more works for the "comission" of soviet political regime than Shostakovich or Prokofiev. Even in his ballets the strong influence of socialist realism is present. One don't need to be specialist to hear it. 

Don't get me wrong, I like to listen Khachaturian. I thing his best work (from that works I know) is Violin concerto. It is good solved, interesting to listener, shifty. But can it be compared in its greatness and moral strenght to Violin concerto No. 1 or Cello concerto No. 1 by Shostakovich? Or to Violin concertos by Prokofiev in its invention? I think, definitely not. Maybe is just more tuneful and funny. I can't join your enjoyement for him and I think he isn't good enough to make some kind of "star triangle" with Prokofiev and Shostakovich.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

confuoco said:


> Even in his ballets the strong influence of socialist realism is present.


And what exactly is wrong with that?


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## confuoco

Are you kidding? At least storylines...in Spartacus it is not so evident (but still present, slave, who leads some kind of revolution...don't mind, that choice of this story is an accident - there are evident similarities with working-class that didn't want to be as slaves of bourgeoisie and high-class anymore etc. I could say a lot of things around, but my english isn't good enough.) And Gayane? It is just a celebration of kolchoz and collectivization in USSR, that demnified so many people! And of course it reflects also in the music...sometimes you can hear formalism and disgusting pathos. I am sorry, but when somebody uses his talent for such a political propaganda (even if it is free and sincere), in my opinion it decreases the value of the work very significantly. It is a pity, because from some point of view these works are really excellent. I like listening to Spartacus, but I can't ignore these "shadows".


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## oisfetz

Sure, Aram music is subversive and terrorist, and he composed it for the KGB. It
should be banished. In particular the v.c. is clearly communist. Today,Aram would
be in Guantanamo.


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## confuoco

I don't want to blame or judge him...neverthless I think that works with such a backround aren't so precious. Namely I didn't mention works like Poem for Stalin. But even if I would forget and ignore all these things, and think only about music, still I am not sure to equal him to Prokofiev and Shostakovich. And please don't derogate socialism in USSR, maybe for some people from the "West" it is today something like funny curiosity, but I guess it was quite serious to many people.


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## Tapkaara

This is a difficult issue to address.

Khachaturian was an ardent communist, there is no denying that. Works like Gayne, Spartacus, etc. definitely have communinst propoganda running through them.

It's hard to say how much of the communism in Aram's work is his own, or was forced upon him. I think works like the piano concerto and violin concerto, which are pieces of pure music with no political undercurrents, are proof that the man was very capable of writing music for the sake of pure art and not for any political statement.

While I do not deny Aram was a communist...nor do I in any way try to downplay the evils of communism...I think it's important to remember the environment in which all soviet composers lived. Shostakovich, Prokofiev and Khachaturian all had to tread carefully under Stalin. Thus, blatantly "pleasing" works like Spartacus were inevitable to keep your job...and perhaps your life.

Confuoco, I wonder what you think of Wagner, then...given his less-than-favorable background.


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> Confuoco, I wonder what you think of Wagner, then...given his less-than-favorable background.


Rather don't ask me 

I agree that it is difficult and complicate issue. Again: I don't want to damn Khachaturian for that. But don't want to ignore these facts as well.


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## Tapkaara

Khachaturian was a very kind soul who loved music and who loved people. His politics were way off but he was a naturally gifted composer...and one of my favorites.

It's not always easy to look past negative points as salient as his connections to communism, but I am willing to try to look past them for the sake of taking in and relishing his musical gifts to the world.


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## Tapkaara

Gonna try to ressurect the Khachaturian thread here. He's one of my favorites. Truly a throw-back composer while every one around him was so concerned with the avant-garde. Khachy remained true to an idiom much like Borodin on steroids...

I invite new discussions on this fantastic Soviet composer.


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## Sid James

Sure, he lived in the Soviet Union, but we must not forget that he was not really part of the Russian tradition, because he was Armenian. I'd compare him to Arvo Part, who is Estonian, a country which was once also dominated by the Soviets. Accepting this, we can see why his music can be sometimes seen as superficial or lacking in any real substance. It's different from anything else & of course, full of folk melodies & idioms of his country. He put his country on the map, musically speaking, just like Sibelius, Chavez & Villa-Lobos did to their respective countries. So I don't think he can be lumped in with Prokofiev & Shostakovich as really representing 'Soviet' or C20th Russian music.

& I agree there is a political subtext to his music. Like _Gayaneh_, a glorification of the collective farm system, _Spartacus_ which is partly about mass revolution, and even non programmatic works like the _Violin Concerto_, which won the Stalin Prize in the 1940's. Nevertheless, reception of his music by the Soviet authorities was not one-sided, and we must not forget that he was criticised in 1948, along with Prokofiev & Shostakovich, for being too 'formalist.' In particular, Stalin said that his music was decadent & Western.

I think that _Gayaneh_ is a masterpiece of the C20th ballet repertoire. Sure, it might lack the depth of the Stravinsky ballets, but who can forget the awesome _Gayaneh's Adagi_o, which evokes so many things? (not surprisingly, it was used in Kubrick's _2001: A Space Odyessy_). Same can be said of the _Adagio_ from _Spartacus_. So if one searches for it, there can be depth in his music.


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## Tapkaara

Well, saying Khachaturian was a "soviet" composer is indeed acurate, if only 50% accurate. He made his living in the Soviet Union, so, by that virtue, he can certainly be considered a soviet composer. Of course, he was a native Armenian, and it's in the folk traditions of his ancestors where we find the real soul of his output. I think I saw somewhere where he was described as a Soviet/Armenian composer, and perhaps this is the moniker that fits best.

Yes, Gayne is a masterpiece and one of my favorites by Khachaturian. It's so damn tuneful. Yes, it may lack some "depth" musically, but no one can deny its power on a very viceral level.


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## confuoco

I would be curious what do you think about his Piano concerto in D-flat major


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## Tapkaara

Well, the piano concerto is one of my favorite piano concertos!

It has a wonderful virtuosic part for the piano. It remains tuneful and gorgeously orchestrated throughout. I take it you enjoy it too, Confuoco?


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> Well, the piano concerto is one of my favorite piano concertos!
> 
> It has a wonderful virtuosic part for the piano. It remains tuneful and gorgeously orchestrated throughout. I take it you enjoy it too, Confuoco?


Well, I think we have a lot of better piano concertos in the repertoir...but this Khachaturian concerto is so...funny . A true soviet show!

The solo part is really virtuosic and the most percussive piano part I know. It evocates me xylophone play in many moments. Khachaturian also doesn't use dynamic contrast so much I think, especially in the third movement. The slow movement is more meditative, of course. Using flexatone in it is quite innovative, I guess.


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## Tapkaara

It is a "show," this concerto. But that's why I love it. It's a romp across the keyboard that delivers many thrills and chills. Music that is a little like a carnival ride (such as this concerto) is good for the soul.


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> It is a "show," this concerto. But that's why I love it. It's a romp across the keyboard that delivers many thrills and chills. Music that is a little like a carnival ride (such as this concerto) is good for the soul.


What's your recording?


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## Tapkaara

confuoco said:


> What's your recording?


I have several recordings of this work. When I get home later, I'll take a look and tell which I have.


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## Mirror Image

I'm trying to get into Khachaturian, but I really don't know where to start. There doesn't appear to be many recordings with his music. Any recommendations, Tapkaara?


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## Tapkaara

Based on your tastes, Mirror Image, I'd say Khachaturian will appeal to you very much.

While there are probably less Khachaturian recording around than say, Beethoven or Mozart, there are definitely plenty to choose from.

I'd go with his Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto and a recording of music from his ballets Gayne (or spelled Gayane...the spelling depends on the recording!) and Spartacus.

That would be a good springboard. I won't recommend any particular recording for these because just about all of them are pretty good. You'll make a good choice whatever you choose. (I own close to every Khachaturian recording currently available, so I think that is a fair statement.)

After sampling those, I'd move on to his 3 symphonies (the 3rd being a bombastic monster of a work for organ and 15 trumpets!!!) and then, perhaps, some of his haunting piano works.


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## Mirror Image

Tapkaara said:


> Based on your tastes, Mirror Image, I'd say Khachaturian will appeal to you very much.
> 
> While there are probably less Khachaturian recording around than say, Beethoven or Mozart, there are definitely plenty to choose from.
> 
> I'd go with his Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto and a recording of music from his ballets Gayne (or spelled Gayane...the spelling depends on the recording!) and Spartacus.
> 
> That would be a good springboard. I won't recommend any particular recording for these because just about all of them are pretty good. You'll make a good choice whatever you choose. (I own close to every Khachaturian recording currently available, so I think that is a fair statement.)
> 
> After sampling those, I'd move on to his 3 symphonies (the 3rd being a bombastic monster of a work for organ and 15 trumpets!!!) and then, perhaps, some of his haunting piano works.


Oh this is great! Thanks Tapkaara! I'll definitely check this works out!


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## Tapkaara

confuoco said:


> What's your recording?


These are the recording of the piano concerto that I have: (Conductor/Orchestra/Soloist)

*Kondrashin/Moscow/Flier

Tjeknavorian/Armenian Phil/Serviarian-Kuhn

Yablonsky/Moscow State/Yablonskaya

De Burgos/London Philharmonic/Larrocha*

My favorite is probably the Tjeknavorian.

Have you heard any of these?


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## Taneyev

I've only one, and it's enough for me; Kapell-Koussevitzky.


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> These are the recording of the piano concerto that I have: (Conductor/Orchestra/Soloist)
> 
> *Kondrashin/Moscow/Flier
> 
> Tjeknavorian/Armenian Phil/Serviarian-Kuhn
> 
> Yablonsky/Moscow State/Yablonskaya
> 
> De Burgos/London Philharmonic/Larrocha*
> 
> My favorite is probably the Tjeknavorian.
> 
> Have you heard any of these?


I have one with *Flier* and I am very satisfied, than I listened to some versions on youtube (some of them ale deleted now), but it was only hash in comparison to Flier, not only because of soloist, but also orchestra and trumpet player in the third movement. But unfortunately I haven't listened to any other recording from your list. I like using flexatone on Kondrashon recording, I apriori dismiss any recording with Glockenspiel, celesta or other instrument replacing it . Symphony No 3 from this disc is also absolutely uncomparable to f.e. Stokowski interpretation, which is consider to be very fine as I red.


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## Tapkaara

The use of the flexaone is important. It's how Khachaturian originally wrote the movement, so all performers should be faithful to that. It's menat to imitate the sound of a traditional Armenian instrument.

The reading of the 3rd on that disc is OK...the ultimate is this one, though:

Glushchenko/BBC

If you haven't heard this, it receives my HIGHEST recommendation.


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> If you haven't heard this, it receives my HIGHEST recommendation.


Thanks, I will try to hear it, though, to be honest, I don't like this symphony very much


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## Tapkaara

confuoco said:


> Thanks, I will try to hear it, though, to be honest, I don't like this symphony very much


Hmmm...why not? Too over-the-top bombastic?


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> Hmmm...why not? Too over-the-top bombastic?


Yes, I think this symphony is an example of the work, in which effect overrides true musical content so much...there is nothing interesting on the over and over repeated phanphare motif except it is played by 15 trumpets. Hovewer, I like organ solo, it rocks . But as whole it is so devastating grave and pathetic, I miss Khachaturian's humour here. Still I consider Violin concerto in d minor to be his best work I've heard (or Spartacus, but it is more problematic for me). I am looking forward to hear it live the next year.


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## Tapkaara

Well, K3 is not for everyone, but I love it. Great to listen to when you are pissed off.


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## confuoco

Tapkaara said:


> Well, K3 is not for everyone, but I love it. Great to listen to when you are pissed off.


I have works I want to listen much more when I am pissed off...


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## Tapkaara

This could be the start of a new thread...


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## JoeGreen

I remember turning the dial to our local classical radio station here in the San Diego area, and there was this flute concerto on, it sounded vaguely familiar. When it reached the finale of the movement I immediately realized this was the *1st Movement of Khachaturian's Violin concerto* but on *Flute*! They went on to peform the other two remaining movements movements. 
I thought it was very interesting take on this work hearing it perform on flute.

So I wonder has anybody else heard this interpetation?

I don't recall the specifics, like who the soloist or symphony orchestra was nor who conducted.


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## Tapkaara

As much as I am a Khachaturian enthusiast, I have never heard the so-called Flute Concerto. It is an exact transcription of the violin concerto for flute. I imagine it must be an interesting and virtuosic (for the flautist) take on the concerto, but I have reservations. I don't think the composer himself made the arrangement, so I see it, perhaps, as a bastardization of a work that works just fine as originally written. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

This was on XLNC, I take it...wow...if it was, it's nice that they are branching out into more "off-the-wall" repertoire. I never listen to XLNC. There is no variety and the amount of static is annoying. (I prefer listening to KPBS at night...)


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## JoeGreen

No, I assumed Khachaturian hadn't "authorized" this, but as far as the quality, orchestral accompamient was exactly the same, and the flute part was note for note the same ( except of course where double, triple and quadruple stops are concerned), articulation and phrasing were of course different, but it worked. It was very enjoyable. 

Yes, I too was surprised to find them to something out of the routine, even more surprising was that they played an entire multi-movement work!


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## LvB

JoeGreen said:


> No, I assumed Khachaturian hadn't "authorized" this, but as far as the quality, orchestral accompamient was exactly the same, and the flute part was note for note the same ( except of course where double, triple and quadruple stops are concerned), articulation and phrasing were of course different, but it worked.


To the best of my knowledge, this concerto came about because Jean-Pierre Rampal approached Khatchaturian about writing him a flute concerto (this sometime during the 1960s). Khatchaturian wasn't very interested, but suggested that Rampal arrange the violin concerto, which Rampal did. So in that sense it was authorized by Khatchaturian, although he appears not to have supervised the transcription at all.


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## Taneyev

There are several transcriptions to the flute of string works, e.g. Franck's v.s., Schubert's "arpeggione", and even Paganini's caprices.


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## JoeGreen

Thanks for the info LvB.


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## Zasranec

The Khachaturian concerto on this CD was arranged for flute by P. Gallois himself.


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## handlebar

I just picked up a copy of the piano concerto a few weeks back. Very powerful. It was the first time I had heard it. Must go back have a few repeated listenings.

Jim


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## Tapkaara

handlebar said:


> I just picked up a copy of the piano concerto a few weeks back. Very powerful. It was the first time I had heard it. Must go back have a few repeated listenings.
> 
> Jim


Which recording?


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## handlebar

The ASV issue with Loris Tjeknavorian .

http://www.hbdirect.com/album_detail.php?pid=214965

It won't be among my favourite piano concertos but not bad nonetheless.

Jim


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## Tapkaara

handlebar said:


> The ASV issue with Loris Tjeknavorian .
> 
> http://www.hbdirect.com/album_detail.php?pid=214965
> 
> It won't be among my favourite piano concertos but not bad nonetheless.
> 
> Jim


Ah, stupendous recording!

It's one of my fav piano concertos...it's such a rich score and that piano part is so showy...


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## andruini

I love everything I hear from this man.. However, I'm limited to the Gayaneh and Spartacus suites, the wonderful violin concerto and his 2nd Symphony, which I love....
The Piano Concerto is already on my list, but does anyone have any other recommendations on where to go next with him??


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## handlebar

I want to try the symphonies next. I admit i have heard little but tyhe aforementioned ballets and piano concerto. 

Jim


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## Tapkaara

andruini said:


> I love everything I hear from this man.. However, I'm limited to the Gayaneh and Spartacus suites, the wonderful violin concerto and his 2nd Symphony, which I love....
> The Piano Concerto is already on my list, but does anyone have any other recommendations on where to go next with him??


It's easy to get into Khachaturian's symphonies as there are only 3. The second is usually considered the best, but the first and 3rd are great, too.

The first is a heavily folk-inflected work that, at times, sounds as if it could have flowed from the pen of Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin or Ippolitov-Ivanov. (Watch out for it's magnificent slow movement!)

The 3rd is somewhat avant-garde and strange, but it's one of my fav symphonic works. It has the subtitle 'Symphonic Poem,' which is, probably, a more apt title than 'symphony' for this work; it is in one movement but really does not adopt any type of traditional symphonic form. It is notable for using 15 trumpets and a maddingly virtuosic part for organ that surely gives Saint-Saens a run for his money. The recording of choice for the 3rd is on Chandos with the BBC Symphony. This is an incredibly bombastic work, if you are into that sort of this.

Also check out some of his works for solo piano. Often very moody and somber, these are best listened to with the lights out.


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## JSK

I'm glad to see that somebody loves Khachaturian as much, if not more than I do! He is one of my favorite composers.

I consider him to be a supreme orchestrator and an excellent melodist with a highly distinctive style. I love his Violin Concerto, Symphony 2, Spartacus, the Gayane Suites, and the Masquerade Suite. I've played around with the piano-violin reduction of the concerto a bit. Do you know of a good recording of the complete Gayane which is not too expensive? I have the Jurowski Spartacus, which is OK, but unfortunately I seems like neither ballet has a definitive complete recording.

For some reason I find the piano concerto jarring. But that might be because I've only heard one mediocre recording.


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## bassClef

I just bought this yesterday - have yet to give it a good listen though.

NB. That image looks like it says Symphony No 1 - but it is actually No. 2


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## JSK

The rendition of the symphony in that set, conducted by the composer, is excellent, but imperfect in sound quality.


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## Lisztfreak

I have heard only a few of his compositions, but what I remember best from them is the horribly exaggerated coda to the Violin Concerto. I mean, it's drawn to the point of self-mockery. I was really disappointed with the work.


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## bassClef

JSK said:


> The rendition of the symphony in that set, conducted by the composer, is excellent, but imperfect in sound quality.


I just listened to the first two movements and I noticed that too - distortion in the right channel on the high volumes, plus a bit of hiss and other extraneous noises - quite noticeable on headphones - shame! But the intention was for me to get to know this work (plus others, I've only heard his ballets before), I got this double-CD for just £8 so it will do for that!


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## Tapkaara

That recording of the second is definitely marred by the poor sound, most noticably, the distortion when the music gets too loud. What a shame.

I have two recordings of the complete Gayne music. One is a Japanese import. It's the St. Petersburg Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Stanislas Gorkovenko. The other one is an older Melodiya-style release from the USSR, but I am ashamed to admit I don't have it in front of me and I have forgotten the conductor and band. (I will have to get back to you on that!)

The Gorkovenko recording I got at HMV Japan and was about $50, if I remember correctly. The other one is very rare and I bought it on eBay for a hefty (but forgotten) sum a few years ago.

The full score is as rich and delicious and chocolate cake, though at times quite repetitive. But if you are a dyed-in-the-wool Khachaturian fan as I am, it's worth it to pick up a copy if you can find it.


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## Taneyev

I've complete Gayaneh on a double Rusian Disc by Djansug Kakhidze (??) and the URSS large Radio and TV orchestra. Splendid version IMO.
There are other Aram works worthwilde: the clarinet trio, sonate-monolog for solo violin, sonata-fantasia for solo cello, concerto-Rhapsody for violin and orch.,the beautiful cello concerto, and the awfully difficult piano sonata.


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## bassClef

I really enjoy the whole score to Spartacus, but I can't find it on CD, I'm not even sure if you can get it - I have the full ballet on DVD. I haven't heard the complete Gayaneh score yet.


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## JSK

I know this is slightly off topic, but despite the small size of my school's music library and its relative lack of Khachaturian recordings, we somehow have a Soviet edition of the complete score of the 2nd symphony from 1946. I keep meaning to study it, but have never had much time.

There is at least one complete Spartacus on CD, conducted by Jurowski. It is not a great recording, but I consider it nevertheless acceptable. I believe that there was a set of Melodyia LPs of the complete, original, uncut 4-hour version, but this has not been released on CD.


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## Tapkaara

Taneyev said:


> I've complete Gayaneh on a double Rusian Disc by Djansug Kakhidze (??) and the URSS large Radio and TV orchestra. Splendid version IMO.
> There are other Aram works worthwilde: the clarinet trio, sonate-monolog for solo violin, sonata-fantasia for solo cello, concerto-Rhapsody for violin and orch.,the beautiful cello concerto, and the awfully difficult piano sonata.


Yes, that is the other one I have. The Gorkovenko is in more modern (albeit rather bright) sound, but you can rarely beat the drive behind those old Soviet-era recordings.


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## jurianbai

Got this CD :










I am excited to listen to Khachaturian's in more details, but so far I can say great orchestration and many folk tunes swirling around. I got less knowledge on this composer, quite good to see 6 pages of discussion here. Lastly, how would you rate this violin concerto ranking, among other 20th century violin (remember 20th CENTURY ONLY)...


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## Tapkaara

jurianbai said:


> Got this CD :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am excited to listen to Khachaturian's in more details, but so far I can say great orchestration and many folk tunes swirling around. I got less knowledge on this composer, quite good to see 6 pages of discussion here. Lastly, how would you rate this violin concerto ranking, among other 20th century violin (remember 20th CENTURY ONLY)...


Folk tunes in Khachaturian? How can that even be possible??


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## jurianbai

Tapkaara said:


> Folk tunes in Khachaturian? How can that even be possible??


Or maybe my term 'Folk tunes' was incorrect (again). What I referred was the Caucasian scale melody (which is turn out an Armenian folk music). Btw, just read Wikipedia article that confirmed it.

But Tapkaara why do you think it's not possible to have folk tunes in Khachaturian?


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## Tapkaara

jurianbai said:


> Or maybe my term 'Folk tunes' was incorrect (again). What I referred was the Caucasian scale melody (which is turn out an Armenian folk music). Btw, just read Wikipedia article that confirmed it.
> 
> But Tapkaara why do you think it's not possible to have folk tunes in Khachaturian?


I was just being silly. Of course there are folk tunes in Khachaturian. He is certainly one of the most 'ethnic'composers.' He did quote specific melodies in his works as well as create original melodies based on Caucasian folk asthetics.


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## Sid James

jurianbai said:


> ...Lastly, how would you rate this violin concerto ranking, among other 20th century violin (remember 20th CENTURY ONLY)...


Khatchaturian seems to push the boundaries of tonality, thematic development or structure much less than say Prokofiev or Shostakovich. But what he misses out on those aspects, he makes up for his use of colour, both for the orchestra and soloist. To admit my bias, my favourite C20th violin concertos (so far) are the Berg & Schoenberg. The Khatchaturian is a good listen, no doubt (it's stayed in the repertoire for so long), but overall it's a work that looks back more than forward. That's my two cents' worth anyway...


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## TWhite

The Piano Concerto was awfully popular for quite a while, but I haven't heard it performed recently. I have the original William Kappell recording--he gave the American premiere of the work in the late 1940's, if I remember correctly. 

I remember several piano majors working on the piece when I was in college--I got hold of the score and it looks like enormous fun to play--it's certainly fun to listen to. As a friend of mine once said, the third movement sounds like Gershwin in a Troika. 

Haven't heard a lot of Khatchaturian--mainly the piano concerto and two of the ballet suites--"Gayne" and "Spartacus", but what I've heard I like. 

Tom


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## Tapkaara

TWhite said:


> The Piano Concerto was awfully popular for quite a while, but I haven't heard it performed recently. I have the original William Kappell recording--he gave the American premiere of the work in the late 1940's, if I remember correctly.
> 
> I remember several piano majors working on the piece when I was in college--I got hold of the score and it looks like enormous fun to play--it's certainly fun to listen to. As a friend of mine once said, the third movement sounds like Gershwin in a Troika.
> 
> Haven't heard a lot of Khatchaturian--mainly the piano concerto and two of the ballet suites--"Gayne" and "Spartacus", but what I've heard I like.
> 
> Tom


Khachaturian is often a very "fun" composer. The Piano Concerto, for example, is a rollicking good time.

He was a marvelous melodist and a prodigious orchestrator. His music lacks pretension and should have a "populist" appeal to anyone who likes classical music.


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## MJTTOMB

Tapkaara said:


> Khachaturian is often a very "fun" composer. The Piano Concerto, for example, is a rollicking good time.
> 
> He was a marvelous melodist and a prodigious orchestrator. His music lacks pretension and should have a "populist" appeal to anyone who likes classical music.


Absolutely. I adore Khachaturian, and my respect for him is only made greater by his humble beginnings, and for his strength of will amidst the persecution of the Soviet government.


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## Tapkaara

MJTTOMB said:


> Absolutely. I adore Khachaturian, and my respect for him is only made greater by his humble beginnings, and for his strength of will amidst the persecution of the Soviet government.


Although Aram is usually lumped with Dmitri and Sergei as 'The Three" Soviet composers, I think Aram is often thought of as a distant number three compared to the other two. I suppose he was not as progressive or groundbreaking as Dmitri or Sergei, but he was no less talented. And yes, to keep such a conservative idiom in the time in whcih he lived is, to me, just as revolutionary as anything by Schonberg. Talk about going against the grain!


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## TWhite

Tapkaara said:


> Khachaturian is often a very "fun" composer. The Piano Concerto, for example, is a rollicking good time.
> 
> He was a marvelous melodist and a prodigious orchestrator. His music lacks pretension and should have a "populist" appeal to anyone who likes classical music.


I certainly will say that the 'heart' of the Piano Concerto, at least IMO, is the second movement, which has a great deal of lyric intensity and passion. On the printed page, and certainly hearing it, it is beautifully laid out for the solo instrument--but then so is the whole concerto.

I've always found the eastern Russian "Caucasian" sound very fascinating, and along with Balakirev's "Islamey" and Liapunov's "Lezghinka", the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto is certainly one of the best keyboard examples I can think of. A very well-thought out work, I think it should be revived.

As I remember, it was tremendously popular about 40 years ago--its time should be rolling around once again. As I said, I like it a lot.

Tom


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## Tapkaara

TWhite said:


> I certainly will say that the 'heart' of the Piano Concerto, at least IMO, is the second movement, which has a great deal of lyric intensity and passion. On the printed page, and certainly hearing it, it is beautifully laid out for the solo instrument--but then so is the whole concerto.
> 
> I've always found the eastern Russian "Caucasian" sound very fascinating, and along with Balakirev's "Islamey" and Liapunov's "Lezghinka", the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto is certainly one of the best keyboard examples I can think of. A very well-thought out work, I think it should be revived.
> 
> As I remember, it was tremendously popular about 40 years ago--its time should be rolling around once again. As I said, I like it a lot.
> 
> Tom


My theory for the decline of the Khachaturian Piano Concerto is due to the bullying ofso-called progressive composers and other musical elites. Such a conservative work by a modern composer must have seemed ludicrous to the serialists and avant-gardists. Such a silly, old-fashioned work should be suppressed, right? Atonal music without tunes must take precedence over the tonal and melodic, I suppose.

I think the world of music has, for the most part, torn itself away from such snobbery and we are coming back down to earth. It's entirely possible that we could hear more Khachaturian on record or in the hall as more and more people discover his entirely accessible idiom.

Just my thought.


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## Sid James

Tapkaara, you talk as if a listener can only like _either_ "atonal" OR "traditional" music. Some people can like both, don't you think? & who are these "elites" that you talk about? I think they're a figment of your imagination, to tell you the truth. There are many musicians the world over who perform both more so-called "easy" and "difficult" music. Both extremes (& even those "in-between") are part of the repertoire, from Khatchaturian's _Sabre Dance_ to something like Roslavets' "atonal" violin sonatas...


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## Tapkaara

Andre said:


> Tapkaara, you talk as if a listener can only like _either_ "atonal" OR "traditional" music. Some people can like both, don't you think? & who are these "elites" that you talk about? I think they're a figment of your imagination, to tell you the truth. There are many musicians the world over who perform both more so-called "easy" and "difficult" music. Both extremes (& even those "in-between") are part of the repertoire, from Khatchaturian's _Sabre Dance_ to something like Roslavets' "atonal" violin sonatas...


While I cannot name specific names as far as the "elite" go (after all, this is only a theory), you have to consider the time in which Khachaturian was active. It was the 1930s through the 1970s. This could be considered the heyday of avant-garde music. This is when we had, probably, the largest bulk of composers who wanted to be as far out as possible breaking conventions and pushing music into new areas. This is what was considered true musical progress, at least in Europe.

Sibelius and Ifukube (two of my favorites...you all know that) were both denegrated in their time due to their perceived conservatism. Sibelius was derided later into his career (as the avant garde really started to take shape) by the likes of Virgil Thomas, Theodor Adorno, Rene Leibowitz, etc. Ifukube was often harshly critiqued by the Japanese musical establishment of the time because he was not following the new European trends of serialism and the avant-gard.

As a result, Sibelius fell out of favor quite a bit in the 1940s and composers like Stravinsky and Schonberg became all the rage. Sibelius did not really come back into vogue, I think, until the late 1980s. Ifukube was also not heavily recorded until the 1980s himself, perhaps, because his style of music was not very marketable. The Japanese music scene wanted more "modern" music.

Of course, this type of thing may or may not have been the case with Khachaturian but I think it's a good guess to think it's possible. After all, Khachaturian is not performed or recorded as much as he probably could despite the great craftsmanship of his music. Why else could this be?


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## Sid James

Tapkaara said:


> Of course, this type of thing may or may not have been the case with Khachaturian but I think it's a good guess to think it's possible. After all, Khachaturian is not performed or recorded as much as he probably could despite the great craftsmanship of his music. Why else could this be?


In Western Europe & Japan your thesis might have some logic as regards the "avant-garde" vs. "conservative" debates, but I don't think this applies that much to Khatchaturian's Soviet context. It is true that he was lumped in with Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky in the famous "anti-formalist" decree of 1948. But after Stalin's death, the music of these composers began to be more appreciated in the Khruschev era. I think I remember reading that Khruschev even commissioned Shostakovich to write a musical (or opera? a stage piece anyway) called_ Moscow Cheriomushki_. While some of these composers had been derided by "the establishment" of Stalin, that was no longer the case under Khruschev - they gained an element of prestige, they became "the establishment." I think Khatchaturian became a kind of figurehead for Soviet music, and many people to this day would probably know the tune of the _Sabre Dance_ or _Adagio from Spartacus_, while not knowing any tunes of the other Soviet composers.

So his music has had a "better deal" than say the so-called "Russian Schoenberg," Nikolai Roslavets, who was virtually blacklisted after his groundbreaking atonal works were produced just before the Bolshevik coup of 1917. I think your argument about elites (at least in the old Soviet Union) applies more to Roslavets than Khatchaturian. Roslavets music has only begun to be recorded since the demise of the USSR, everything had to do with him not fitting in with the dominant Communist ideology of "music for the masses" & so forth. Khatchaturian had an easy ride, comparatively (so did all of the others, they never dared to compose "atonal" music at a time when they would have been vilified like Roslavets).

& let's not forget that he also wrote some expendable music as well, like the _Ode to Lenin_ (so did Roslavets for that matter, a similar song dedicated to Stalin - they all did it to survive)...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Tapkaara said:


> Khachaturian is often a very "fun" composer. The Piano Concerto, for example, is a rollicking good time.
> 
> He was a marvelous melodist and a prodigious orchestrator. His music lacks pretension and should have a "populist" appeal to anyone who likes classical music.


I think I can agree with your last sentence. I just listened to Khachaturian's violin concerto on youtube. Very easy to access with the ear, although it doesn't do very much for me relatively speaking (you know where I'm coming from). The slow movement should be quite appealing to people who want to get into it.

I also wonder why there seems to be a lot of Schoenberg's music recorded in comparison with Khachaturian's music, neither appears to be significantly more than the other, just by a quick browse of one or two of my favourite on-line CD shops. Misallocation, I think. (Schoenberg's music is totally awful, _entartete Kunst_).


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## jurianbai

The intro of the 1st movement of Khachaturian violin concerto can easily converted to power metal song. Very 'riff-ing'. I don't know if this is good or bad thing.


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## Sid James

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> ...(Schoenberg's music is totally awful, _entartete Kunst_)...


Another "pearl of wisdom" and "enlightened observation" etc. How tasteful to resurrect the very thing the dear old Nazis called Schoenberg's music, the reason why he had to leave his country, have his music (temporarily) banned, be harrassed. What a perceptive person you are (not). During his life Schoenberg had to fight this kind of crap all the way up until his death. The criticisms that Tapkaara talked about regarding Ifukube & Sibelius can be applied to Schoenberg, conservatives (still) label his music as everything under the sun, from "unemotional" to "awful" (as our dear old friend has described above). It just shows a clear inability to percieve the music, to take it on it's own terms, etc. I bet harpsichord concerto doesn't know, in his professed ignorance, that Schoenberg actually made an excellent arrangement of a Concerto by his darling Handel, available on Naxos conducted by Robert Craft. This work (and any of his other works, including arrangements and transcriptions of various other earlier composers) shows Schoenberg to be a craftsman of the highest order. I think that he was one of the great composers of the C20th, and I will defend him to the hilt!...


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## Huilunsoittaja

The Ballets and Masquerade Suite are excellent. I think Khachaturian is very unique, in that he blends Modern, Jazz, and Middle-Eastern(ish) styles, nor was he very revolutionary. 



Andre said:


> "unemotional" to "awful"


_That's _ not familiar on my part...

It appears, Andre, we are both rebels, in _complete_contrast... but that's still having similarity. Hmm what do you call that? "An enemy of my enemy is my friend" ? Because you hate the exact thing I do.


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## Sid James

I just think that it's simplistic to suggest that one or other style or approach to music ("atonal" or "tonal" or whatever) 'dominated' any period of the C20th, because there was a diversity of composers working in various styles. & I think that one reason why composers like Khatchaturian, Shostakovich or Prokofiev didn't really engage with the 12 tone system (or serialism later) is because of the oppressive political dogma in the USSR of the time. We all know how Shostakovich had to shelve his S_ymphony No. 4_ for about 30 years before it was performed, (probably) specifically because it engaged with "atonality" and those types of trends. Some composers of the next generation, like Schnittke & Gubaidulina did to a greater degree, but even they were to an extent sidelined.

& there is very little evidence of a so-called "elites" elsewhere, like in Britain you had the conservative music of Malcolm Arnold performed in the middle of the century (when serialism was supposedly "ascendant") but then again serialists like Elizabeth Luytens had to wait until the 1980's to get any proper recognition, so stuck in the past was the British musical establishment (they thought that Britten was the be all & end all of modernity)...


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## Air

Andre said:


> I think that one reason why composers like Khatchaturian, Shostakovich or Prokofiev didn't really engage with the 12 tone system (or serialism later) is because of the oppressive political dogma in the USSR of the time.


It is true that _L'Enfant terrible_ mellowed down a lot after his return to the Soviet Union (Works like the 2nd and 3rd Symphonies, The Fiery Angel, and the Scythian Suite just wouldn't be approved of in the USSR), but by the time we get to the Seventh Symphony, I'm pretty sure it was more Prokofiev himself that wanted to hide in the past, not the government that forced him to do so.

If you can believe it, Khachaturian was the composer who actually (seriously) got me into Classical Music. I think I heard one of my piano teacher's older students play the (famous, and over-played) Toccata, which at the time just blew me away. I thought it was the most difficult piece on earth. (Turns out, it only sounds difficult. Any Grade 8 student can play it. If you want a difficult Toccata, look no further than Schumann. Or Eiges.)


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## Sid James

Air said:


> It is true that _L'Enfant terrible_ mellowed down a lot after his return to the Soviet Union (Works like the 2nd and 3rd Symphonies, The Fiery Angel, and the Scythian Suite just wouldn't be approved of in the USSR), but by the time we get to the Seventh Symphony, I'm pretty sure it was more Prokofiev himself that wanted to hide in the past, not the government that forced him to do so...


There was still a touch of radicalism left in Prokofiev's late _Symphony-Concerto _for cello & orchestra, I think. It also looked forward to later works by Shostakovich & Britten. I haven't heard the _Seventh Symphony_, but I have read that it was less characteristic than some of the others...



Air said:


> ...If you can believe it, Khachaturian was the composer who actually (seriously) got me into Classical Music...


His _Gayaneh _was the first ballet I heard, and I think that it "taught" me much about the genre in general. Not that I'm a huge fan of ballet per se, but it's a good, solid example of the genre...


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## JSK

I love Khachaturian, but I mostly agree with Tapkaara. During the post WWII period it became all the rage for composers to compose more "modern" music (atonal, 12-tone, electronic music, etc...). I feel like composers like Sibelius or Khachaturian fell out of favor for their conservatism in many circles not because audiences preferred more cutting-edge music, but because the "elite" (composers, professors, etc...) often had a bias against more traditional music among contemporary composers.

There are lots of excellent 20th-century "romantic" style composers who could potentially have lots of appeal because their music was considered very out of fashion to a lot of people during their compositional prime - Dohnanyi, Gliere, Khachaturian, etc...


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## Sid James

If there was an "elite," they were not unified in any way. Some would have loved serialism, others would have been in favour of neo-Romanticism. Sibelius, Arnold & others like him may have copped alot of flack, but so did Schoenberg, Boulez, even Stravinsky. I think any notion of a "bias" against certain composers or styles in favour of others is somewhat akin to "conspiracy theory."


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## myaskovsky2002

*Khachaturian*

Nice and very repetitive Soviet music...I saw him in Moscow while seing his ballet Spartakus, 20 minutes of beautiful music and 1:30 of filler! Not very talented as far as I am concerned...Easy music, for the people. He wasn't Russian but from Georgia...Armenian, this is an interesting aspect, the Armenian music is sometimes interesting (e.g. Gayaneh).
Even though I'm curious then I bought a lot from him.

pages.videotron.com/svp

Martin Pitchon


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## elgar's ghost

Although Gayenne and Spartacus are probably Khachaturian's most famous works I think his symphonies and concertos are far more interesting.


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## myaskovsky2002

*His most interesting music*

is the music he never wrote.

He was a composer for the Soviet people, he made elementary music, he was a "vendu" to the state, Stalin, etc.

Martin Pitchon


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## TxllxT

Melodious (easy on the ear), energetic, optimistic & lyrical. So I would describe Khachaturyan's music. On the internet there are a lot of scolding remarks about him & the culture czars of communism, but I just listen to the Caucasian Southern Hot flavours and am carried away. Two ballets made him famous abroad: Gayaneh and Spartacus.


















But there is also a violin concerto (I heard it for the first time mono with Ruggiero Ruggi), which was dedicated to David Oistrakh and there is symphony no.3: 15 trumpets and organ, really turning&turning everything into an orgy-cacophony of increbidle sound! For those who like to explore the boundaries of classical music, Khachaturyan ought not to be missed.


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## the_emptier

Khachaturyan is essential for russian classical music, don't miss his piano concerto as well


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## Huilunsoittaja

Yes, I love a lot of Khachaturian's music, particularly his ballets, and his Masquerade Suite.


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## TxllxT

the_emptier said:


> Khachaturyan is essential for russian classical music, don't miss his piano concerto as well


Khachaturyan was an Armenian. I don't like to call him a 'Soviet' composer  too political), but Russian is also beside the mark. Arvo Pärt we also see as being Estonian, not Russian. So my question: what is "Russian Classical Music" ?


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## Aksel

His piano concerto is all kinds of wonderful!


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## Il_Penseroso

I love his music, I've collected his own recordings (as conductor) and I have enjoyed his masterworks like Symphony No.2 so much during years ...


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## Tapkaara

TxllxT said:


> Khachaturyan was an Armenian. I don't like to call him a 'Soviet' composer  too political), but Russian is also beside the mark. Arvo Pärt we also see as being Estonian, not Russian. So my question: what is "Russian Classical Music" ?


Khachaturian was most certainly a Soviet composer, though he was ethnically Armenian (who grew up in Georgia). It's not "too political" to state something that is a fact!

Aram is on of my favorite composers. I always have to love a composer of "serious" music who is not afraid to write a good tune.


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## Tapkaara

I am listening to Loris Tjeknavorian's recording of Khachaturian's 1st Symphony with the Armenian P.O. Has anyone else heard this work? What do you think of it?

Khachaturian is certainly one of my favorite composers, though this is not one of my favorite works by him. It is essentially a student work, so there are moments of not-so-great continuity (in the 1st movement, especially). As a whole, I feel it is a sprawling, somewhat bloated work that should have been tightened up a bit. (Being a fan of Sibelius, I feel that I have come to expect his special brand of concision in every symphony I hear. Blessing or a curse?) Despite it feeling somewhat out of control, it's an appealing work with colorful orchestration and some good, memorable themes. 

Anyone else?


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## Taneyev

Gayanekh is one of my all time favorite ballet. Same with his concerti for violin, cello and piano, his lovely Mascarade suite, his folk trio for piano, clarinet and violin, and his fantastic (and extremely difficult) piano sonata. Worth to investigate are his fine Concerto-Rhapsodie for violin and orch, his violin sonata, Sonate-monolog for solo violin, and Sonata-fantasia for solo cello. And don't forget his famous piano tocatta.


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## Tapkaara

Odnoposoff said:


> Gayanekh is one of my all time favorite ballet. Same with his concerti for violin, cello and piano, his lovely Mascarade suite, his folk trio for piano, clarinet and violin, and his fantastic (and extremely difficult) piano sonata. Worth to investigate are his fine Concerto-Rhapsodie for violin and orch, his violin sonata, Sonate-monolog for solo violin, and Sonata-fantasia for solo cello. And don't forget his famous piano tocatta.


I love Gayeneh, or Gayne, or however you choose to spell it. I have two recordings of the complete ballet. Though somewhat repetitive (as is Swan Lake in its full version) Gayeneh has some of the most explosively energetic music in the classical repertoire. The exotic colors and textures of this ballet just never cease to rile me. It's just fun music with loads of unpretentious, popular appeal.

Certainly, recordings of the various suites taken from the ballet are very easy to find, but I encourage everyone who cares to seek out the full ballet.


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## Vaneyes

King of concerti.


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## Tapkaara

Vaneyes said:


> King of concerti.


I don't know if he is THE king of concerti, but he is certainly one of the best in that field. I can never decide if I like his Piano Concerto or Violin Concerto more. I may lean JUST slightly to the Violin Concerto, but man, it's close. That second movement of the Piano Concerto, though,is probably my favorite moment from either work.


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## myaskovsky2002

TxllxT said:


> Melodious (easy on the ear), energetic, optimistic & lyrical. So I would describe Khachaturyan's music. On the internet there are a lot of scolding remarks about him & the culture czars of communism, but I just listen to the Caucasian Southern Hot flavours and am carried away. Two ballets made him famous abroad: Gayaneh and Spartacus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is also a violin concerto (I heard it for the first time mono with Ruggiero Ruggi), which was dedicated to David Oistrakh and there is symphony no.3: 15 trumpets and organ, really turning&turning everything into an orgy-cacophony of increbidle sound! For those who like to explore the boundaries of classical music, Khachaturyan ought not to be missed.


indeed...so easy and so many repeating that it's enough to listen to the Spartakus adagio...the other parts are either bad or the same music.

Martin, not a Khachaturian fan


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## Tapkaara

Myaskovsky was one of Khachaturians's teachers...interesting that the forum member with the name Myaskovsky does not like Khachaturian!


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## clavichorder

My piano teacher says he finds Khachaturian's music noisy and "cheap". I personally find it catchy and dramatic at a glance, but I have not investigated enough. I'm not sure how well his larger works hold together.


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## Tapkaara

clavichorder said:


> My piano teacher says he finds Khachaturian's music noisy and "cheap". I personally find it catchy and dramatic at a glance, but I have not investigated enough. I'm not sure how well his larger works hold together.


A lot of people make similar comments. He's bombastic, garish, etc. Is he noisy? I guess a little bit! He does get pretty damn loud. But I enjoy that. Is he cheap? No, no, no. His expression is very direct and elemental. And he rarely strays from solid melody. I guess because he is so brash and lacks some finesse or refinement he can be een as cheap. But there really is so much honestly and sincereity in what he does. It's refreshing if you ask me.

And when his music is happy, it is very, very happy. There are so many moment of pure joy in Gayene, it's hard not to feel uplifted.


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## Celesta

bassClef said:


> I really enjoy the whole score to Spartacus, but I can't find it on CD, I'm not even sure if you can get it - I have the full ballet on DVD. I haven't heard the complete Gayaneh score yet.


It's hard to find a good recording of the complete Spartacus. I just play my dvd's of the Bolshoi Ballet with the extraordinary Vladimir Vasiliev in the title role. Algis Zhuriatis, principal conductor of the Bolshoi, interprets the score brilliantly.


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## elgar's ghost

Dear lady - how did you manage to dredge this thread up? I agree - it would be good to hear Spartacus in its entirety but I believe Khachaturian himself thought it better for the music to be served up in chunks...sorry...suites. There is this which is Bolshoi, but I wouldn't like to say if it's the one you are after (plus it's expensive).


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## Celesta

We're all entitled to our opinions, elgars ghost. Khachaturian, IMO, was not an exceptionally gifted composer, but Spartacus is a compelling score filled with drive, drama and sensuality. I think it sounds best accompanied by Grigorovich's choreoography instead of on its own. That's why I prefer to listen to it on dvd.


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## Vaneyes

Celesta said:


> *We're all entitled to our opinions*, elgars ghost. *Khachaturian, IMO, was not an exceptionally gifted composer*, but Spartacus is a compelling score filled with drive, drama and sensuality. I think it sounds best accompanied by Grigorovich's choreoography instead of on its own. That's why I prefer to listen to it on dvd.


Yes, but I don't like that one.


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## elgar's ghost

Celesta said:


> We're all entitled to our opinions, elgars ghost. Khachaturian, IMO, was not an exceptionally gifted composer, but Spartacus is a compelling score filled with drive, drama and sensuality. I think it sounds best accompanied by Grigorovich's choreoography instead of on its own. That's why I prefer to listen to it on dvd.


You may have misunderstood me a little, Celesta - I was complimenting you for finding an old thread. My apologies if I gave the wrong impression. 

Vaneyes, what do you think of his symphonies?


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## MagneticGhost

Spartacus is much better complete than in bite sized chunks imo.

The Violin Concerto and Piano Concerto are wonderful works - full of energy, excitement and great tunes.

Need to give his symphonies a go really.

I've yet to be disappointed by anything I've heard from Catchy-tunian. (see what I did there  )


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## elgar's ghost

MagneticGhost said:


> Spartacus is much better complete than in bite sized chunks imo.
> 
> The Violin Concerto and Piano Concerto are wonderful works - full of energy, excitement and great tunes.
> 
> Need to give his symphonies a go really.
> 
> I've yet to be disappointed by anything I've heard from Catchy-tunian. (see what I did there  )


Yes, very good(!) 

I'll probably get a complete Spartacus eventually - the four suites I have are adequate but I agree that it's not the real deal. Same with Gayaneh which Khachaturian boiled down to three. I also wish he'd have written more chamber works but I guess that would have meant less orchestral, most of which I think is very fine. Always nice to read other folk's appreciation of him.


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## techniquest

I'll take any opportunity to bang on about Khachaturian's symphonies. Although he write only 3 (well 2 and the madness that's called no.3), I genuinely believe that th 1st and 2nd really deserve to be heard and should certainly be included in most orchestras' repertoires. Both are standard 4-movement symphonies in big late romantic style peppered with Khachaturian's flair for local tunes and rhythms as well as his wide pallette of orchestral colour. The first symphony was a student work but, like his contemporary Shostakovich, it has a maturity and style unmistakeably belonging to the composer. The second symphony, often called 'The Bell' possibly because bells are used at the beginning and end of the work, is a far darker composition - a wartime symphony. The searching 3rd movement is possibly the best thing he ever wrote; a painful and bleak take on the 'dies irae'.
The 3rd symphony is completely different - I like it, but many don't and use it as a weapon to rubbish the composer. However, symphonies aside, his big ballets Gayaneh and Spartacus are probably the last of the big Soviet grand ballets (Shchedrin's 'Anna Karenina' proving a notable exception).


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## Vaneyes

elgars ghost said:


> ....
> 
> Vaneyes, what do you think of his symphonies?


K-Man:

1 is schizophrenic with its tonal and atonal messages. Borrowings don't enhance.

2 is one voice (tonal) that offers fragmented scenes. Nothing developed to point of thematic.
3 is unique, a masterwork. This "Symphonic Poem" melds nicely with his raison d'etre, K-Man the Koncerti King.:tiphat:


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## E Cristobal Poveda

*Aram Khatchaturian*

Aram Il'yich Khachaturian; 6 June [O.S. 24 May] 1903 - 1 May 1978) was a Soviet Armenian composer and conductor. He is considered one of the leading Soviet composers.

Composer of such great works as Spartacus, the masquerade suites, and many other fantastic ballets.


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## TxllxT

I consider him great, especially in his energetic ballets.


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## David Phillips

He had a great melodic gift and coupled with Technicolor orchestration, his ballets in particular, as has been said, are very appealing.


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## Azol

David Phillips said:


> Technicolor orchestration


I am not even sure if Hollywood today would be able to match Khatchaturian's Third in special effects department! 
Relentless assault, carnage and sympho-organ-ic madness. Ah-mass-zing!

So can we all afford some high-octane classical music from time to time? Most definitely.


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## MusicSybarite

The performance of the 2nd symphony with Järvi and the Royal Scottish N.O. is an absolute crack. I'm a big admirer of war-time symphonies, and this rendition does great justice of it. Khachaturian wasn't the best composer, but I largely enjoy his music, especially his 3 symphonies (yes, included the maniac 3rd!), the 3 gorgeous concertos, Masquerade Suite, Gayaneh, Spartacus, the three Concert-Rhapsodies, and 'The Valencian Widow' Suite.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I currently know only the 2nd Symphony and the Lermontov Suite but I like both quite a bit. The 2nd reminds me of some of Shostakovich's symphonic output, but Khachaturian has a bit more 'non-abstract' melodies in his work and the overall tone of the music is calmer. Some of his melodies remind me of Borodin/Rimsky-Korsakov. His orchestration is wonderful.


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## Eramire156

I listened to the 3rd earlier today, the Chicago Symphony with Stokowski, pure soviet bombast, great demonstration record, musically vacuous.


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## bisque

Poor Aram. So many armchair critics. Well, let me be the dissenting voice - I love his music. The piano concerto and violin concerto are wonderful pieces, which is why they endure. The symphonies are a mixed bag, but I enjoy them anyway. And I love the ballets. It's like melody and wonderful melody at that, gives people the creeps. I don't get it, actually.


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## Eramire156

bisque said:


> Poor Aram. So many armchair critics. Well, let me be the dissenting voice - I love his music. The piano concerto and violin concerto are wonderful pieces, which is why they endure. The symphonies are a mixed bag, but I enjoy them anyway. And I love the ballets. It's like melody and wonderful melody at that, gives people the creeps. I don't get it, actually.


Don't take my criticism too seriously, I wouldn't get rid of that LP for anything, I love it, it just crazy over the top. The Kondrashin recording of the masquerade suite is a must have recording.


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## Zhdanov

Eramire156 said:


> pure soviet bombast, great demonstration record, musically vacuous.


it can't be vacuous while being 'pure Soviet bombast' at the same time, because one has to be a genius to have composed this 'pure Soviet bombast'.


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## Zhdanov

same as the Jews saying 'Wagner was a Nazi so his music cannot be good' as if one thing relates to the other.


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