# Christian Music from 'Elsewhere' (non-Eurocentric cultures)



## Ingélou

I just love the *Missa Luba* - 





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_Luba

My favourite from the 1965 LP is the Credo - 





It is part of my past, when I was 'going out' (sort of) with a young lapsed Catholic who played me this to illustrate how he was still attached at heart. (Later he started going to Mass again, then decided that he had a vocation to the priesthood; he joined an order and is now a bishop!) And I went to a student retreat centre with him, decided to become a Catholic, and became engaged to Taggart, all in three short weeks. 

The Missa Luba came into being in the Congo in 1958 but it is so *seventies* in its idealistic reaching out to other cultures. I still like to be reminded that Christianity is not 'a religion of Western Europe and North America', but truly international. I enjoy the blend of strangeness and familiarity that these musics have for me.










Can you recommend other Mass Settings and Christian Sacred Music from - say - the Middle East (ironic!) - the Far East - Central or South America - the Antipodes - Africa - the Pacific Islands - or even *Eastern* Europe?

Plus any discussion or analysis of *Christian Music from 'elsewhere'* would be very interesting.

Please, no polemics! 
But thank you in advance for any helpful replies. :tiphat:


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## Taggart

One interesting piece is the Hanacpachap cussicuinin an anonymous hymn to the Virgin Mary in the Quechua language. The music is attributed to Simon Bocanegra but ....


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## Guest

Does Russian Orthodox count?


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## Ingélou

Yes, please - nice to have a collection of really lovely 'non-usual' Christian music.


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## Taggart

StlukesguildOhio posted this on Current Listening :tiphat: - "Misa Tango" by Luis Bacalov

The link is to a full version with Placido Domingo & Ana Maria Martinez. Here's just the Gloria:


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## Vronsky

This is from my country. Performance by Macedonian Byzantine Choir "Harmosini".











The language is Church Slavonic -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Slavonic_language -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Church_Slavonic


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## cjvinthechair

Ko Matsushita - Missa Tertia (link to Kyrie) 



Milton Nascimento - Missa dos Quilombos (link to part 1) 



Komitas Vardapet - 'Patarag' Armenian Divine Liturgy


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## regenmusic

Great topic. I have to look into some files to find the specific African music I'm looking for,
but a couple of years I found something on youtube that was very unique. Try a youtube 
search on African Choirs. There is a playlist of 113 videos that comes up. I realize it's not "classical" but it's
not rock or pop, either.


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## regenmusic

The music I was looking for is the Muungano National Choir, Kenya. They have a Krie, something called
Kaunga Yachee, and others that are or sound like Sacred Mass.


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## science

I'm not sure we should distinguish between the Middle East and Europe (I suspect that the region from Ireland to Iran, Morocco to Moscow is historically best considered a single region with internal diversity rather than trying to find "the" place to draw the line dividing East and West) but if we do make that distinction then the Middle Eastern Christians have a lot of great music. The Byzantines (~Greeks), Armenians (lot of Russian influence), Melchites, Maronites, Copts, and Ethiopians all have distinct liturgical and musical traditions.

One great thing anyone should do if you happen to find yourself in Jerusalem is to go to the Holy Sepulcher Church early on a Sunday morning. The services start about 2 AM and go on until about noon, so hop up on coffee first. Each tradition takes its turn at the Sepulcher, getting about 30-45 minutes before the next one arrives. Catholics get several turns because several orders of monks get a turn, so unless the difference between Dominican and Franciscan monks matters that much to you you can use subsequent Catholic masses as a chance to pop out for a pitstop. And anyway, the HS is never more beautiful than in the middle of the night, lit by just a few candles, when lovely melismas from a few voices are echoing around it. If you wander around a bit, you can see the priests whose turn it is to go next preparing themselves (saying their prayers as they put on their robes and so on). It's a bit like a machine: while one tradition is wrapping up its service the next guys are circling the place with censers as they chant the psalms getting reading to go. By the time the regular tourists start arriving (c. 8 AM) you'll be ready to go... perhaps to the Armenian church in the Armenian quarter, one of the most beautiful you'll see. 

Even if you're not getting up that early or staying up that late, look around, including on the roof. You might catch the Ethiopians or the Copts having a service. 

Or, heck, if you live in a big city or can get to one, stop in and see the service. Those old Eastern Christian traditions know how to worship a divinity who becomes human so that humanity might become divine... and afterwards, if you're young, head for the coffee or lunch: the old ladies love to push some of their homemade goodies on you, as long as you're half as appreciative and flattered as you should be, and there's nothing better than that.


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## science

A sample of an Ethiopian church doing its thing (push play): http://www.amazon.com/Ethiopian-Liturgy-Live-Orthodox-Tawahedo-Church/dp/B000046PY7

More samples: http://www.amazon.com/Ethiopian-Orthodox-Liturgy-Melakegenet-Gezahegn/dp/B008MA7PR6


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## Ingélou

science said:


> ...
> 
> One great thing anyone should do if you happen to find yourself in Jerusalem is to go to the Holy Sepulcher Church early on a Sunday morning. The services start about 2 AM and go on until about noon, so hop up on coffee first. Each tradition takes its turn at the Sepulcher, getting about 30-45 minutes before the next one arrives. Catholics get several turns because several orders of monks get a turn, so unless the difference between Dominican and Franciscan monks matters that much to you you can use subsequent Catholic masses as a chance to pop out for a pitstop. And anyway, the HS is never more beautiful than in the middle of the night, lit by just a few candles, when lovely melismas from a few voices are echoing around it. If you wander around a bit, you can see the priests whose turn it is to go next preparing themselves (saying their prayers as they put on their robes and so on). It's a bit like a machine: while one tradition is wrapping up its service the next guys are circling the place with censers as they chant the psalms getting reading to go. By the time the regular tourists start arriving (c. 8 AM) you'll be ready to go... perhaps to the Armenian church in the Armenian quarter, one of the most beautiful you'll see.
> 
> Even if you're not getting up that early or staying up that late, look around, including on the roof. You might catch the Ethiopians or the Copts having a service...
> 
> .


Great post :tiphat: ... but I don't know if I have the stamina! 

By the way, I don't know how to 'play' your Ethiopian cd links; I can't see the right button to click on. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS - This link is a short Excerpt from the Coptic Liturgy: 




VVVV - The penny's dropped - have finally located the right button, thanks to you, Science! :tiphat:


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## science

Ingélou said:


> Great post :tiphat: ... but I don't know if I have the stamina!
> 
> By the way, I don't know how to 'play' your Ethiopian cd links; I can't see the right button to click on.


I'm not sure what's happening. If you scroll down, I hope you see a thing that looks like this:

View attachment 67877


If so, click "preview all songs" or go one at a time with the little play buttons on the left.


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## science

Ingélou said:


> Great post :tiphat: ... but I don't know if I have the stamina!


I didn't! You have to stand the whole time too. I bowed about 4 am and wound up sleeping till noon.

But I hope to try again someday!


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## Taggart

regenmusic said:


> The music I was looking for is the Muungano National Choir, Kenya. They have a Krie, something called
> Kaunga Yachee, and others that are or sound like Sacred Mass.


Great. :tiphat: Did a little digging around. The "Kaunga Yachee, and others that are or sound like Sacred Mass" are on one of their albums of the Missa Luba and are described in the notes as "various folk melodies of Kenya are also performed by the choir, mostly of a devotional nature, with similar interlocking vocal patterns. "

Interestingly the group has also done a disc with the Missa Luba and the Misa Criola and Misa Flamenca  combining African, Argentinian and Spanish traditions.


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## science

One more that I just thought of, again not being sure of where the "not-Europe" line is drawn, is the Mozarabic Chant tradition. There is a Harmonia Mundi recording of that available, led by Marcel Pérès. It's about halfway between Byzantine and Gregorian chant, maybe a little more on the Byzantine side, if that makes sense.


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## science

Ingélou said:


> Great post :tiphat: ... but I don't know if I have the stamina!
> 
> By the way, I don't know how to 'play' your Ethiopian cd links; I can't see the right button to click on.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> PS - This link is a short Excerpt from the Coptic Liturgy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VVVV - The penny's dropped - have finally located the right button, thanks to you, Science! :tiphat:


Good, from there I found this:






You probably don't want to watch the whole thing, but skip around!

Imagine that without those nasty pews. What is up with immigrants adopting our worst ideas?


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## Ingélou

I like pews! There are so many historic carved ones in the UK too...

A Syriac Chant: 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS - (see below) I also prefer being able to sit down, and, finding silence helpful in prayer, I have no objection at all to good order. Actually pews don't guarantee that; I used to have to take the non-choristers to Durham Cathedral services and even my famous death-ray stare couldn't quell the lads on the far end of the pew. 
As for children running around, we have plenty of that at Mass at our local church (and it never bothers me).


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## science

Ingélou said:


> I like pews! There are so many historic carved ones in the UK too...


It might be ok just in that case. I'll have to look that up. I've never thought about "historic carved pews." I'll want to learn about that!

For keeping people in order, they're very useful.

A fun thing to do is to attend a service at an Orthodox seminary - besides that you get to see what a liturgy looks like with a dozen priests and three bishops sharing duties, a lot of the young priests have little children running around, quiet of course but at home. I once saw Metropolitan Theodosius step over a child as he made his way around the church with the censer.

At least in the case of the Orthodox Churches, I'm definitely anti-pew!


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