# Asians in classical music industry



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

Why is has there been an influx of asians recently in the Classical music industry? When did it start?


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

h1478971 said:


> Why is has there been an influx of asians recently in the Classical music industry? When did it start?


You tell us! When did it start? if you have noted it, you must have some idea.

Asians are no more or less musical than any other people. But perhaps you are referring to a perceived influx of Asian artists in the West, Lang Lang for example.

Western-style art music has only truly existed in Japan, for example, for about 100 years. I cannot speak about other countries such as China because I simply do not know. But I would not be surprised if countries like China are also relative newcomers to the world of Western-style art music.

But what of the influx of FINNISH musicians these days? Conductors, composers, orchestras, singers, etc. My point is, all things wax and wane. Maybe today its Finns and Asians, tomorrow it will be Nigerians and Sri Lankans. I don't think it's due to any other factor beside...coincidence.


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

Perhaps it's because China is becoming a big classical music market? I believe every region has classical musicians with exceptional talents. Whether they get promoted or not by a record company is more often a business decision.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Globalization man.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Because Asians are smarter than average.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

violadude said:


> Globalization man.


Is Globalization man of Asian descent? Is he more powerful than Spiderman?


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Philip said:


> Because Asians are smarter than average.


Their standard of education is higher (than here in the US, I mean), but I think you'll find the average person anywhere is pretty similar in intelligence to the average person anywhere else. Going by my experience in America and China, anyway.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

Aramis said:


> Is Globalization man of Asian descent? Is he more powerful than Spiderman?


That depends in context,

if for example, in a fantasy quasi-scientific world, spider-man and globalization-man were pitted to fight each other (I know this is an absurd claim, but bear with me) in an environment like Downtown New York, Spider-man would surely win because of his flexibility in compact highly obstructive environments. However, if the area of battle were to be wall street, then Globalization-man has the advantage, as he can create homogeneous mixtures from heterogeneous groups of people, allowing him to harvest profit and economic surplus to destroy spider-man.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Their standard of education is higher (than here in the US, I mean), but I think you'll find the average person anywhere is pretty similar in intelligence to the average person anywhere else. Going by my experience in America and China, anyway.


Hey i'm just saying what everyone else is thinking!

But i agree.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

But you still have more geniuses in China than anywhere in the world, and combined with their education system it produces super Asians, capable of great achievements in many different spheres - from music to astrophysics. (Just a guess).
Maybe one day , when India will reach the same economical/social/educational situation as China, we'll get to see more Indian virtuosi.
But most of all - it's DISCIPRINE that counts.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Chrythes said:


> But most of all - it's DISCIPRINE that counts.


Yes, that is also what students in the USA educational system generally lack...


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

If i'm not mistaken, a lot of Asian languages are "tonal", meaning that pitch plays an important role in the pronunciation and meaning of words. Perhaps this characteristic has a positive effect on musical training, as a matter of fact, a native Asian speaker has more chance of possessing perfect pitch.

I'm sure their culture and discipline plays a big part as well, just look at all these young Chinese Olympic gymnasts, they are a product of society.


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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

Asia has a lot of dragon mothers who pushed their children to the limit. Learning music is not for enrichment of life, but for a preceived life of frame and fortune. It worked for some children, but turn them off music for life for others. My ex-wife pushed No. 1son hard towards music and he became an accomplished classical musican, but the same treatment turned no.2 son off completely.

I don't like Lang Lang. I found his style too showy


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

Korean and Japanese languages are rather monotonous.

I think money is the biggest factor. After economic developement, music and art usually follow. People like to sing when their stomach is full. More children get to learn music and record companies see the market potential.

I don't like Lang Lang either.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2011)

Not to over-generalize, but while most Asian musicians, especially pianists, have amazing technique, I don't hear much passion or personality. I much prefer Russian musicians.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

Kontrapunctus said:


> Not to over-generalize, but while most Asian musicians, especially pianists, have amazing technique, I don't hear much passion or personality. I much prefer Russian musicians.


agreed, most of them play it too systematically. They just see It as a puzzle of notes to play rather than understanding the music itself and what the composer intended.

Russian and eastern musicians for the win.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

because they're not lazy bums and they work hard.

when one says asian is it actually a person from asia or an american?

i mostly see asian americans. in that case they are american.

as for asians i think they have their own music scene.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Uh does anyone besides me think the whole premise of this thread is kind of racist....?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

violadude said:


> Uh does anyone besides me think the whole premise of this thread is kind of racist....?


I think that stating facts like say the proportion of Asians in a certain field and trying to figure out why it is so, isn't particularly racist.

On the other hand, saying that "most Asians don't play with passion" is borderline racist. I'm fairly certain that in a blind experiment you could never tell the nationality of a performer.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Philip said:


> I think that stating facts like say the proportion of Asians in a certain field and trying to figure out why it is so, isn't particularly racist.
> 
> On the other hand, saying that "most Asians don't play with passion" is borderline racist. I'm fairly certain that in a blind experiment you could never tell the nationality of a performer.


I think so too.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Kontrapunctus said:


> Not to over-generalize, but while most Asian musicians, especially pianists, have amazing technique, I don't hear much passion or personality. I much prefer Russian musicians.


Last time I checked, Russians were Asians.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> I think that stating facts like say the proportion of Asians in a certain field and trying to figure out why it is so, isn't particularly racist.
> 
> On the other hand, saying that "most Asians don't play with passion" is borderline racist. I'm fairly certain that in a blind experiment you could never tell the nationality of a performer.


Ya I guess I was being overdramatic when I said the whole thread was racist. It just makes me mad when people start sprouting that old stereotypical nonsense that Asian musicians don't have enough "heart" or "emotion" when playing.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Asians account for 60% of the world's population so yeah, that might be a gross generalization!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

An amazing thing is that India and China _alone_ are over 1/3 of the world.

(That is, put together.)


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## teccomin (Mar 21, 2008)

Kontrapunctus said:


> Not to over-generalize, but while most Asian musicians, especially pianists, have amazing technique, I don't hear much passion or personality. I much prefer Russian musicians.


Thats because most Asians nowadays did not learn music because they are innately passionate about it, they are "forced" by their parents. Therefore it becomes rather convenient to generalize Asians as "lack of passion and personality". However, if you look at the older generation of Asian musicians, where learning music wasn't a "trend" back then, they actually have great depth and personality.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I wish I was Asian.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

teccomin said:


> However, if you look at the older generation of Asian musicians, where learning music wasn't a "trend" back then, they actually have great depth and personality.


Agreed. Check out Fou Ts'ong, who Richter considered along with himself (of course ) and Gould, the greatest pianist of his time. One of the most unique and brilliant interpreters ever to grace this planet (particularly in Chopin), a huge influence on the musicians of his generation (he's still living, so that means Argerich, Lupu, etc.) and it's a shame that he's not better known than he is today. I wish I knew if he still gave concerts.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Well I am not an expert on performance (I still don't like the generalization going on in the thread) But I know for sure that all the composers from Asia that have been gaining recognition lately certainly don't lack "heart" or "emotion" and their music is usually quite beautiful.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2011)

To be fair, I think a lack of passion/personality afflicts many young musicians today, regardless of nationality.Maybe the obsession with note perfection results in tepid performances.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I don't find this topic particularly racist, but I do find it to be utter ********. (yeah, you censor that for me TC. Interestingly enough, the censoring software discriminates against bovine lifestock, but horses, elephants or antying else will do.)

Ethnicity linked to musicality? Please... It's such a painful cliché that makes you sound like the musical equivalent of a person who, at the top of a ski slope, reads a book on skiing and dives down. These generalisations makes my toes curl.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

teccomin said:


> Thats because most Asians nowadays did not learn music because they are innately passionate about it, they are "forced" by their parents. Therefore it becomes rather convenient to generalize Asians as "lack of passion and personality". However, if you look at the older generation of Asian musicians, where learning music wasn't a "trend" back then, they actually have great depth and personality.


Addressing generalizations with more generalizations. Hmm?


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)




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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)




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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

teccomin said:


> Thats because most Asians nowadays did not learn music because they are innately passionate about it, they are "forced" by their parents. Therefore it becomes rather convenient to generalize Asians as "lack of passion and personality". However, if you look at the older generation of Asian musicians, where learning music wasn't a "trend" back then, they actually have great depth and personality.


This is not a particularly eastern trend. It happened in the western world as well, among the well heeled.

Fu Ts'ong suffered greatly because of his music. He was exciled until recently. His father committed suicide during the cultural revolution because of him; the greatest tragedy that could have happened to a Chinese. I think all these factors have an influence on his music.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

there's been thread about stereotype on Asians classical musician a while ago.

Very interesting that Asians, particularly Chinese musician was growing up from their Chinese classical music. If you happens to know, their instruments are one that required a very high portion of _emotions_ and _passions_ to put into their playing and music for being able to played it decently. Interesting more, when I talked about comparision of Chinese music to western music, to our Chinese uncle/auntie musicians, they actually speaking the opposite.. it is the western music that lack of emotions. For example, some of our Chinese folks talk laughable about how a particular piece of music only titled as Concerto No.2, no.3, no.4 and so on. something less emotion in addressing a music created. And that's only about the title.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

jurianbai said:


> there's been thread about stereotype on Asians classical musician a while ago.
> 
> Very interesting that Asians, particularly Chinese musician was growing up from their Chinese classical music. If you happens to know, their instruments are one that required a very high portion of _emotions_ and _passions_ to put into their playing and music for being able to played it decently. Interesting more, when I talked about comparision of Chinese music to western music, to our Chinese uncle/auntie musicians, they actually speaking the opposite.. it is the western music that lack of emotions. For example, some of our Chinese folks talk laughable about how a particular piece of music only titled as Concerto No.2, no.3, no.4 and so on. something less emotion in addressing a music created. And that's only about the title.


ah, but romanticism ended in 1908 or so - Music sort of moved on from expressing feelings and emotion of the composer. To the composer showing something objectively. Like Stravinsky for example.

Which makes me think theres a fundamental difference in values between eastern music and western music. Western music was expressive and romantic, but now its not. Im not too sure about eastern music and its progress now.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Igneous01 said:


> ah, but romanticism ended in 1908 or so - Music sort of moved on from expressing feelings and emotion of the composer. To the composer showing something objectively. Like Stravinsky for example.
> 
> Which makes me think theres a fundamental difference in values between eastern music and western music. Western music was expressive and romantic, but now its not. Im not too sure about eastern music and its progress now.


How are you defining "Eastern Music" though? Most of the composers from the East have picked up on western trends and either stuck totally with those or found a way to combine them with more "Eastern style" music, so it is not so cut and dry like that.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

violadude said:


> How are you defining "Eastern Music" though? Most of the composers from the East have picked up on western trends and either stuck totally with those or found a way to combine them with more "Eastern style" music, so it is not so cut and dry like that.


Im sure eastern composers have incorporated some western trends into their music. But what im wondering is if they are still writing music to express themselves? From that Bernstein lecture (perhaps im going by that train of thought) western music has moved passed that.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Igneous01 said:


> Im sure eastern composers have incorporated some western trends into their music. But what im wondering is if they are still writing music to express themselves? From that Bernstein lecture (perhaps im going by that train of thought) western music has moved passed that.


Hmm I'm sure many composers still express themselves through music.


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## JesterAB (Oct 3, 2013)

I believe there is a combination of a few factors:

1. Language: The tonal specifics of Chinese language when there are 3 tones in Mandarin and I believe 9 tones in Cantonese help to develop a perfect pitch in Chinese children
2. Conservative education: I find it good though many may not agree. It brings the traditional values with it including the Classical Music
3. Achievement oriented mentality and upbringing. There are lots of talk about Chinese tiger-Moms and many of them are essentially true.

Like it or not it is the Chinese people who carry the best tradition of European and Russian Schools of Music. My wife happens to be a piano teacher with a rich European tradition. She sets up a high standard and guess what - almost all her students are Asians, mostly Chinese. Check how they play in their young ages here and here, just for example


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