# The nine titans of the quartet



## Steatopygous

I've nearly finished the tremendous and very amusing account of the Guarnieri Quartet by its first violinist, Arnold Steinhardt. It is called Indivisible by Four. (They retired in 2009 after a 45-year career together.) Steinhardt refers at one point to the nine composing giants of the string quartet who provided 90 per cent of their repertoire. Twenty years after that book was published I would add a 10th, a more modern composer.
Who do you think the nine titans are? If there's any interest I'll post his list later.
Here's a clue to get you started: One of the nine is Beethoven. I know you would never have got that!


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## arpeggio

Haydn and Bartok.

And I would love to see the list.


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## Art Rock

Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak, Bartok, Shostakovich would/should certainly be among the 9.


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## arpeggio

Would Carter be the modern addition?

Some other nominees would be Martinu, Britten, Schoenberg or Hindemith.


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## jurianbai

I hope Mendelssohn also. I also like to see the list.
I guess it's only need to have 9 composers to get to 90% of their repertoire and become mainstream group. Unfortunately lesser attention given to pieces, by Luigi Cherubini, Myakovsky, Taneyev, Onslow, Stenhammer, to being played or secured as "repertoire".


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## Steatopygous

In Melbourne it's nearly midnight. I'll put up the nine tomorrow, just to give a few more people a chance to guess if they want to. 

But remember that the names are going to be pretty traditional....


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## TurnaboutVox

I'd guess that Steinhardt nominated Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak and Bartok.

I'd want to add Boccherini to the pre 20th century list.

Keeping to composers who published more than two, from the 20th century I'd suggest Webern, Reger, Hindemith, Bridge, Bacewicz, Shostakovich, Britten, Schnittke, Kurtag and Carter for having written noteworthy works for string quartet.

Henze, Rihm, Sciarrino, Coates, Birtwhistle, Ferneyhough, Jonathan Harvey and Philippe Manoury, amongst others, have written some very interesting works but it might be too early to call them 'Titans' of the string quartet.


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## arpeggio

I personally do not care for Xenakis but he composed some interesting works for string quartet.


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## tdc

Villa-Lobos would make my list.


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## Steatopygous

OK folks, well done. 
But the prize, which consists purely in a virtuous glow of self satisfaction, goes to Turnabout Vox, who correctly identified all nine. The tenth that I would add - not on the basis of personal preference, but increasing number of performances (though actually it is personal preference too) - is Shostakovich. 15 quartets, many of them regularly played in quartet recitals, and rocketing in popularity in the past 20 years. His quartets are really mainstream now in a way some of the other quartets listed above, brilliant though they are, have yet to manage to achieve. Here I am thinking of Arpeggio's contribution of fine composers such as Martinu, Britten, Schoenberg and Hindemith or Turnabout Vox's Webern, Reger, Hindemith, Bridge, Bacewicz, Shostakovich, Britten, Schnittke, Kurtag and Carter. Probably most top quartets who have been playing together for years would have Webern's miniatures in their repertoire, and probably Britten and Hindemith. They would almost certainly have some Shostakovich, and the nine titans. 
Honourable exception: London Haydn Quartet, who play only Haydn but so beautifully that no one feels any deficiency. 
I could rant on a bit longer, but I should probably stop here.


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## violadude

TurnaboutVox said:


> I'd guess that Steinhardt nominated Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak and Bartok.
> 
> I'd want to add Boccherini to the pre 20th century list.
> 
> Keeping to composers who published more than two, from the 20th century I'd suggest Webern, Reger, Hindemith, Bridge, Bacewicz, Shostakovich, Britten, Schnittke, Kurtag and Carter for having written noteworthy works for string quartet.
> 
> Henze, Rihm, Sciarrino, Coates, Birtwhistle, Ferneyhough, Jonathan Harvey and Philippe Manoury, amongst others, have written some very interesting works but it might be too early to call them 'Titans' of the string quartet.


Don't forget Norgard on one of those lists!


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Art Rock said:


> Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak, Bartok, Shostakovich would/should certainly be among the 9.


I'd add Mendelssohn as well.


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## Kilgore Trout

Why everyone seems to forget Debussy and Ravel ? They both only wrote one quartet, but they're standard repertoire.


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## arpeggio

Although I do not think they are part of the standard, two composers who composed some outstanding quartets that have not been mentioned are Holmboe and Simpson.


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## Balthazar

Janáček's two works are worthy of consideration as well.


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## Vaneyes

TV-"I'd guess that Steinhardt nominated Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak and Bartok."

Well done. Somewhat surprised at the Schumann listing, and the absence of Janacek or Shostakovich. And re Brahms, I prefer by a long shot, his Piano Quartets. Nine, of course, is just scraping the surface. :tiphat:


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## Skilmarilion

Schumann and Brahms are interesting choices. Personally I'd say Tchaikovsky's set of three, which seem to be overlooked somewhat, are at least equally worthwhile.


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## TurnaboutVox

The Guarneri also recorded Arriaga, Cherubini (I think), Smetana, Grieg, Ravel, Debussy, Tchaikovsky and Janacek. But Steatopygous quotes Arnold Steinhardt referring to "the nine composing giants of the string quartet who provided 90 per cent of their repertoire" so it was specifically those nine "titans" I was guessing about, based on what I knew they'd recorded.


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## elgar's ghost

I would never like to argue with a respected musician but I still can't for the life of me understand how Schumann can be considered a 'titan of the quartet' - compared to his trios I think his three are fairly pedestrian and in early-mid 19th century terms they certainly can't hold a candle to the later ones of Schubert and Beethoven or the majority of the Mendelsson cycle.

Similarly with Brahms - enjoyable as they are I can't consider his quartets as towering achievements either. Even though the 'titan' list is based around the Guarneri's own repertoire I get the impression that to exclude the otherwise towering figures of Schumann and Brahms from it would leave too much of a glaring chronological gap.


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## Art Rock

elgars ghost said:


> I would never like to argue with a respected musician but I still can't for the life of me understand how Schumann can be considered a 'titan of the quartet' - compared to his trios I think his three are fairly pedestrian and in early-mid 19th century terms they certainly can't hold a candle to the later ones of Schubert and Beethoven or the majority of the Mendelsson cycle.
> 
> Similarly with Brahms - enjoyable as they are I can't consider his quartets as towering achievements either. Even though the 'titan' list is based around the Guarneri's own repertoire I get the impression that to exclude the otherwise towering figures of Schumann and Brahms from it would leave too much of a glaring chronological gap.


Agree on the Schumann and Brahms (I love all of Brahms' other chamber music, but the string quartets leave me relatively cold). Tchaikovsky might have been a better choice instead.


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## Steatopygous

elgars ghost said:


> I would never like to argue with a respected musician but I still can't for the life of me understand how Schumann can be considered a 'titan of the quartet' - compared to his trios I think his three are fairly pedestrian and in early-mid 19th century terms they certainly can't hold a candle to the later ones of Schubert and Beethoven or the majority of the Mendelsson cycle.
> 
> Similarly with Brahms - enjoyable as they are I can't consider his quartets as towering achievements either. Even though the 'titan' list is based around the Guarneri's own repertoire I get the impression that to exclude the otherwise towering figures of Schumann and Brahms from it would leave too much of a glaring chronological gap.


Maybe. More likely, I think, is that the group was formed in the early 1960s, when quartet playing was often regarded as eccentric and the repertoire was much more limited. By that I mean what people actually played in concert, not the choices that were open to them. The Guarnieri met every year to play through and discuss new repertoire. Steinahrd t opposed the Sibelius for years, until he suddenly "got it". He wanted the quartet to play Kreisler's quartet, but they never would. And they did add Smetana, Janacek, Ravel, Debussy etc. 
But just quietly (don't tell anyone else) I also find Schumann and Brahms (two composers I deeply love) less accessible in the quartet repertoire than the other "titans".


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## elgar's ghost

Art Rock said:


> Agree on the Schumann and Brahms (I love all of Brahms' other chamber music, but the string quartets leave me relatively cold). Tchaikovsky might have been a better choice instead.


I don't think I could replace either Schumann or Brahms with anyone from the same timeframe - Mendelssohn aside, from the 1820s until the time of Dvořák's later quartets I can't think of anyone convincingly worthy of the 'titan' accolade at all (I love the two quartets of Smetana, but two quartets isn't really enough to acquire 'titan' status). That means replacing them with two more composers from the 20th century who were not only undisputed masters of the genre but who made substantial contributions to it in terms of numbers - there are numerous contenders, but I would choose Schoenberg and Shostakovich.


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## Orfeo

*Nine Titans*

Glazunov
Taneyev
Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich
Shebalin
Myaskovsky
Beethoven
Dvorak
Villa-Lobos

Worthy of thought: Borodin, Weinberg, Roslavets, Kabalevsky, Stenhammar, Nielsen, Per Norgard, Bax, Moeran, Ginastera, Peiko, Boris Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev.


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## Bulldog

My nine:

Haydn
Beethoven
Schubert
Dvorak
Taneyev
Myaskovsky
Shostakovich
Weinberg
Bartok


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## Morimur

Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Schubert, Schoenberg, Xenakis, Webern, Carter, Ferneyhough.


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## Guest

Steatopygous said:


> But remember that the names are going to be pretty traditional....


You hardly needed to tell us this.


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## Guest

elgars ghost said:


> I would never like to argue with a respected musician....


I would never respect a respected musician.


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## Steatopygous

Orfeo said:


> *Nine Titans*
> 
> Glazunov
> Taneyev
> Tchaikovsky
> Shostakovich
> Shebalin
> Myaskovsky
> Beethoven
> Dvorak
> Villa-Lobos
> 
> Worthy of thought: Borodin, Weinberg, Roslavets, Kabalevsky, Stenhammar, Nielsen, Per Norgard, Bax, Moeran, Ginastera, Peiko, Boris Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev.


You are obviously an adventurous listener, and this is an interesting list. I'm not sure I've even heard of Shebalin. But are your titans intended to parallel or replace the Guarnieri's? If it's replace, you're not likely to get a great deal of support from quartet lovers. I couldn't give up Mozart for Myakovsky or Schubert for Taneyev.


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## Steatopygous

Morimur said:


> Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Schubert, Schoenberg, Xenakis, Webern, Carter, Ferneyhough.


See my previous post!


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## Orfeo

Steatopygous said:


> You are obviously an adventurous listener, and this is an interesting list. I'm not sure I've even heard of Shebalin. But are your titans intended to parallel or replace the Guarnieri's? If it's replace, you're not likely to get a great deal of support from quartet lovers. I couldn't give up Mozart for Myakovsky or Schubert for Taneyev.


Not at all. But I find them to be titans anyway. 
I did, however, forget to mention David Diamond and Hans Gal.


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## Bulldog

Steatopygous said:


> You are obviously an adventurous listener, and this is an interesting list. I'm not sure I've even heard of Shebalin.


That's what happens when you reside somewhere over the rainbow.


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## TurnaboutVox

My 9 titans would be:

Mozart
Beethoven
Schubert
Dvorak
Schoenberg
Webern
Bartok
Shostakovich
Kurtag


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## Guest

Morimur said:


> Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Schubert, Schoenberg, Xenakis, Webern, Carter, Ferneyhough.


It's really hard for me to exclude Haydn... but this list is pretty boss.

And if NEOS or Aeon or w/e ever decides to do the right thing and record all of the G.F. Haas quartets... I reckon he'll be a contender as well.


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## Steatopygous

TurnaboutVox said:


> My 9 titans would be:
> 
> Mozart
> Beethoven
> Schubert
> Dvorak
> Schoenberg
> Webern
> Bartok
> Shostakovich
> Kurtag


I've only discovered Kurtag in the past few years, but he is a very fine composer. I know it's personal preference, but Haydn was so important one can't leave him out. Therefore as thread originator I am using my extraordinary powers to grant you 10 titans. Provided you make Haydn the 10th.


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## norman bates

my guess

mozart
arriaga
beethoven
schubert
brahms
bartok
bloch
shostakovich
carter

am I wrong or nobody has mentioned Bloch before me?


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## jurianbai

Orfeo said:


> *Nine Titans*
> 
> Glazunov
> Taneyev
> Tchaikovsky
> Shostakovich
> Shebalin
> Myaskovsky
> Beethoven
> Dvorak
> Villa-Lobos
> 
> Worthy of thought: Borodin, Weinberg, Roslavets, Kabalevsky, Stenhammar, Nielsen, Per Norgard, Bax, Moeran, Ginastera, Peiko, Boris Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev.


I applauded this list also!:tiphat:


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## tdc

norman bates said:


> am I wrong or nobody has mentioned Bloch before me?


I like Bloch a lot, he composed some excellent music.


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## Orfeo

jurianbai said:


> I applauded this list also!:tiphat:


Thank you kindly.
DH
:tiphat:


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## starthrower

violadude said:


> Don't forget Norgard on one of those lists!


I'm becoming a fan of Norgard's quartets. I've been listening to the late quartets, and I just ordered the first six.

I will also mention Ernst Toch. He wrote thirteen.


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## PeterF

Haydn
Mozart
Beethoven
Schubert
Dvorak
Mendelssohn
Brahms
Schumann

The above 8 make my list. After them it is hard to decide between a number of composers - Borodin, Tchaikovsky, Gade, Stenhammar, Fesca, Berwald, Bruch, Raff, Reicha, Glazunov, and a few others.


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