# Are Shostakovich symphonies the most similar to Beethoven's?



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

As a big fan of Beethoven's symphonies, I find that I also enjoy Shostakovich symphonies as well as find them quite accessible and also similar to Beethoven's...
anyone else sharing that sentiment?


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

I like both as well, but I’ve never thought of them being similar. Of course, last year I purchased two box sets conducted by Thomas Sanderling (Dresden)) of the complete Beethoven and Shostakovich symphonies! How do you find them similar?


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

If someone were to press me on "whose symphonies are most similar to Beethoven's," I think Shostakovich would be quite far down on my list of responses. Much more similar to my ears are (roughly) contemporary works by people like Schubert, Schumann or Mendelssohn.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

MatthewWeflen said:


> If someone were to press me on "whose symphonies are most similar to Beethoven's," I think Shostakovich would be quite far down on my list of responses. Much more similar to my ears are (roughly) contemporary works by people like Schubert, Schumann or Mendelssohn.


I have to agree some with the OP. There are frequent releases of harrowing energy where I find Beethoven and Shosty on the same wavelength. I don't hear that with the three composers mentioned above.


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## Shosty (Mar 16, 2020)

I've never really been reminded of Beethoven when listening to Shostakovich. I find his symphonies closer to Mahler, whom he admired and loved.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I find the two are very different although love them both. Think with Shostakovich, because he was around during WW1, there are elements of it in his works, Beethoven was before that era and can imagine his works performed in the courts or stately homes


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I was never reminded of Beethoven when listening to Shostakovich. I think Mendelssohn is more like Beethoven, Robert Simpson's first symphony has the drive of Beethoven, and Bruckner started all his symphonies but one with the cadence to Beethoven's 9th.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> If someone were to press me on "whose symphonies are most similar to Beethoven's," I think Shostakovich would be quite far down on my list of responses. Much more similar to my ears are (roughly) contemporary works by people like Schubert, Schumann or Mendelssohn.


When I said that Shostakovich's symphonies are like Beethoven's I didn't mean alike in literal sense, like being in the same style or technique... In that sense, you're probably correct that it's his contemporaries who are most like Beethoven.

Perhaps even late Mozart's symphonies, especially Jupiter, is very similar to Beethoven's stuff.

However what I really find similarities between Beethoven and Shostakovich symphonies is their spirit: mainly immediate accessibility, having lots of rhythm, and sort of similar energy.
And the thing that both are considered major symphony composers, so it can be a nice exercise to compare their whole symphonic cycles.

Schubert, on the other hand, even though he composed 9 symphonies, just like Beethoven, was more well known for some of his other stuff, like art songs.

EDIT: It's mainly that Shostakovich's symphonies inspire me in a similar way to get familiar with all of his symphonies... I tried it with some other romantic composers, but I usually would get turned off, especially by too long slow movements, and sort of chaotic or loose structure of these works... Shostakovich on the other hands looks more structured.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

And last but not the least for me Shosty's symphonies sound fun and interesting to listen to... I consider Beethoven more serious, but his symphonies are equally engaging and interesting...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I've never heard Beethoven in Shostakovich - too much time had elapsed and their respective worlds were too different for there to be any connective tissue with their symphonies.


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## HolstThePhone (Oct 11, 2015)

I'm struggling with this match up to be honest - what particular Shostakovitch symphonies remind you specifically of Beethoven?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I’ve considered Shostakovich similar to Beethoven, in some ways, for many years. Specifically, each communicates more directly and forcefully in their music than other composers. There seems to be less “in the way” of their musical thought when we hear the music. And both seem to be communicating things that are important, though what those things are and why they seem important I couldn’t possibly say.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Though the symphonies of Beethoven and Shostakovich are different in many ways, I place them together in that their music seems very personal in an extra-musical sense. Some composers such as Haydn or Mozart seem to have an element of emotional clarity in that the music almost always seems to be about the music, while these others (and here I am only talking about the symphonies), such as Beethoven, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, and Bruckner, seem to always be fighting some kind of secret war with themselves, so that we're always trying to unlock the true meaning of what was composed...

...or maybe, I just read to much into things.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

ZJovicic said:


> And last but not the least for me Shosty's symphonies sound fun and interesting to listen to... I consider Beethoven more serious, but his symphonies are equally engaging and interesting...


I wouldn't exactly call Shostakovich a laugh riot. Yes, he composed some fun stuff early on such as _Age and Gold_, the _Jazz Suites_, but the real genius to me is how both Beethoven and Shostakovich are able to depict anguish or even despair and make it sound beautiful. With Beethoven, though, there is always a triumph over anguish. With Shostakovich, who belongs to the twentieth century, the anguish leads to no resolution or even one where we have to ask ourselves if Shostakovich really meant it.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

I find Shostakovitch's symphonies filled with ironies and satires (not genuine triumph) that are nowhere to be found in Beethoven. In addition, they are much more modern sounding as being expressionistic and more fragmented than Beethoven ever was.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

In one part of this documentary, (I can't remember which part it is) the conductor guy talks about what he thinks as Shostakovich's allusion to Beethoven:







ZJovicic said:


> Perhaps even late Mozart's symphonies, especially Jupiter, is very similar to Beethoven's stuff.


Here's another interesting case:





Two different composers, two different eras, two different pieces of different character and style, but we can still hear some "connection" in terms of their tendencies:

*[ 11:30 ~ 12:20 ]*










btw, some time ago we had a thread comparing Mozart's K.426/K.546 with Shostakovich's fugues.
Here's the link to it, if you want to have a look:
What are some of the most anachronistic works by the composers?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Shostakovich admired Mahler's symphonies and occasionally his more psychological works, such as Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8, remind me of Mahler. Never Beethoven however.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I think I do hear something in the OP's claim. Both build music out of simple motifs, for example, and Shostakovich does sometimes have a gruffness that is not entirely unlike Beethoven's.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> I think I do hear something in the OP's claim. Both build music out of simple motifs, for example, and Shostakovich does sometimes have a gruffness that is not entirely unlike Beethoven's.


I'm also reminded of Haydn (who has predilection for monothematicism):


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I think they're both very different composers, and Shostakovich had to deal with (maybe) inhibiting life-or-death political pressures that Beethoven didn't really have to worry about. There's also that bitter sarcastic edge that Shostakovich has sometimes that I don't sense all that much in Beethoven.
I haven't looked closely into the structure of Shostakovich's symphonies though, but on the surface they don't strike me as all that reminiscent of Beethoven tbh.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

No. They are nothing like each other. I would say Schubert's "Great" C Major symphony is like Beethoven's.

Shostakovich symphonies are like Mahler symphonies in their musical language. They are both searching, playful, and sarcastic.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_However what I really find similarities between Beethoven and Shostakovich symphonies is their spirit: mainly immediate accessibility, having lots of rhythm, and sort of similar energy._

I find very little in common spiritually between the symphonies of Beethoven and Shostakovich. Beethoven tends to be heroic, leonine, in good spirits and hard driving. His music is almost universally easy to understand for anyone even if they don't know a bar line from a bar stool.

The only one of those qualities I find consistently in Shostakovich is he is driven. He is definitely not loaded with high spirits or heroism; his music is full of dark psychology and emotions. I also don't find Shostakovich all that accessible especially the symphonies 12 through 15. I would say only symphonies 1 and 9 are fairly accessible to someone that's never heard him. Most of the others can take a lot of exposure to understand.

I agree there is a link between Mahler and Shostakovich but not necessarily between Beethoven and either of them other than he being the father of the romantic symphony.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I don't find Shostakovich's symphonies similar to Beethoven's in any meaningful way, let alone "the most similar."


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

No! Beethoven is god and Communists are atheists!


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

For what it's worth, Sony has a bunch of releases pairing Beethoven with Shostakovich. All are performed by Michael Sanderling and the Dresden Philharmonic. The Shosty symphonies are superb, I haven't warmed to the Beethoven yet.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...ven-symphony-no-3-shostakovich-symphony-no-10

I honestly don't know what the point is besides irritating the consumer, who would be much better served by complete sets of each, both of which are now apparently out of print.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I find no similarities between the two. I quite like many of the Shostakovich symphonies but also find them a little suspect. If only he could have worked on them as Beethoven did his.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

ZJovicic said:


> As a big fan of Beethoven's symphonies, I find that I also enjoy Shostakovich symphonies as well as find them quite accessible and also similar to Beethoven's...
> anyone else sharing that sentiment?


*I feel the same way, he is the next step after LvB the question is who will take over from Shosty...
*


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, there are strong similarities, as one would expect given that the tenets of Socialist Realism in instrumental music are rooted in 19th and early 20thc Beethoven criticism, most notably that of A.B. Marx. In fact, in Stalin's USSR similarity to Beethoven was more or less mandatory and institutionally enforced for public genres like the symphony. Shostakovich knew this and knew how to exploit this for his own ends. Why do you think Shostakovich so keenly felt the need to cap his Fifth with a triumphant finale in the major mode that it raises suspicions of sarcasm? It's because the socialist realist conception of optimism in instrumental music is based on the critical tradition of Beethoven's Fifth and Ninth Symphonies with Tchaikovsky's interpretations of his own symphonies as intermediaries. (Tchaikovsky said his Fourth was a reflection of Beethoven's Fifth, as heard in its reprise of an opening "Fate motive" in the finale.) Likewise, the structural parallels between Shostakovich's Tenth and Beethoven's Fifth are blindingly obvious. In both works a principal theme of the scherzo is derived from the symphony's opening motive and is reprised at a crucial juncture of the finale to put an optimistic conclusion in high relief. This was conscious imitation of Beethoven on Shostakovich's part. 

There are more general stylistic similarities as well, like Shostakovich's dramatic sense of structure, use of fugue (as in the Eighth), and motivic work — but I must get out and up into the mountain air on a beautiful, warm sunny day, so I'll stop here.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

I'm not sure Brahms has been mentioned, but his symphonies were the next step in the evolution of Beethoven's symphonic legacy and he would have been the first person to make this claim because he did - he saw himself as Beethoven's successor and waited until middle age before completing his first symphony because of the pressure he admittedly felt as Beethoven's musical heir. Even he admitted the similarity between the big tune in the 1st Symphony's Finale and the Ode to Joy theme in the Finale of Beethoven's 9th.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> In one part of this documentary, (I can't remember which part it is) the conductor guy talks about what he thinks as Shostakovich's allusion to Beethoven:


The point in this doc most relevant to this thread: when the Bolsheviks took over Russia, they banned every previous work by every previous composer....except Beethoven. Shostakovich was just starting out at the time, so there's bound to be a heavy Beethoven influence on his music.


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