# RockNRoll/Personality types/Lifes ups/downs/and composers of the EARLY 20thC ONLY



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

So here's a thought...dealing only please,,,with 20th C composers born late 19th C - say,,,oh 1950 ONLY. ,,(for reasons I don;'t want to go into, as I have been making Olympic size posts, with Epic # of posts per day,,making me, #1 poster here on TC, since my joining,,,do I get a prize>>>

So there are composers born late 1800's - 1940,,,, 20th C,,which may indeed have made significant impacts/influences on the realms of the High Arts, achieving fame and reaching the populace,,,yet, after numerous attempts,,,for some reasons, unbeknown to us,,,we just can't seem to gather our aesthetics and *get into* a certain ~~great~~~ composer..
Due to any number of reasons. 
To us certain 20th C composers ring true for us,,at least a majority of their works,,,while others,,,we may perhaps ~~~like~~~ one or 2,,,but all in all, our personality makeup,,what Jung aclls our Alchemical mix,,,just does not ~~~jive~~ with the sound imagery of that said composer...
now why is this?
There must be a reason..
A few things that may have influenced me along lifes ups,,and mostly downs,,,is upbringing/family atmosphere (parents may have been sh$t heads?),,,and perhaps our rock days,,which bands we like/hated...our values/relation to materiality/the $ factor,,,,I mean that list could be extended ~~forever~~, as Jung would suggest. 


We are all quite different/yet with a common dominating factor, ,,,we love The High Arts. 

My alchemical makeup (gotta blame it on something,,other than my ego>>>
will not allow the greatness of Stravinsky to enter in,,Nor say Messiaen , nor much of Ligeti, Nor Ives., can I add Copland here?

There are ideological issues which enter in along with past experiences, future hopes, present expectations. 

Stravinsky b. 1881
Ligeti b. 1923
Ives b. 1874 
Copland b. 1900
Messiaen b. 1908

<<<<Try to skip over post modern composers,,,that would be those born say past 1940) 
So what are some ~~major~~ early 290TH C composers which for ~~mysterious factors~~ you just can not ~~meld with, nor connect to? (redundancy for emphasis)


Foorfoot: that you might even feel repulsed towards hearing = aka hate


You are under the American 5th,,,feel free, but please keep it civil, nonflaming and ..show the utmost tolerance,,respect as you expect likewise.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

There might be more comments , if it were in the correct section,,,could the mods kindly please move to the general topic forum,,,I know this is the 2nd time I made this blunder,,,,I lost focused , as I was lost in my train of thoughts...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I dunno, I've been able to connect in some way with most of the music I've heard...I'm glad it all exists, in the form that it does, in my little hierarchy of tastes and likes.

I don't always "connect" with everything from a composer, even Stravinsky, but I recognize his greatness. In other words, I don't consider my own preferences as determining anything except what I like, and am able to grasp, at the time. 

The question is particularly relevant to John Cage, whose work is so dependent on performance. If I "like" a certain recording of one of his works, that doesn't necessarily mean anything about John Cage or about anything other than my own take on it.

Why this attitude? I am a very receptive person, I was taught to wait, be patient, "you" are not the center of things, and this is "the nectar I have created from the poison."


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Yes but i'm more interested in why we choose, which early 20th C composers we follow with all our hearts and souls,,and which we avoid and stay away from. 

It has to do with our beginnings of life.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

,,,so you say,,,*what does R N R have to do with The High Arts,,and which composers we feel drawn towards,,and which we feel repulsed against..??*,,,well I'm going to explain,,at least try to explain...
lets say someone was crazy over ,,,Billy Joel,, Bruce Springsteen, Queen, ,,or even one is a super fan-atic over Barry Manilow ,,,,and hardly ventured far from those pop groups,,,now enter in a guy whose music included legends like John Lee Hooker, Live at Soledad Prison, John Mayall Thru The Years double album,,,King Crimson, The Who live at Leeds, Moody Blues, Johnny Winter maybe some Hendrix. 


Both leave all that behind, for the most part and ow enter the gateways of The High Arts,,,
Is it theoretical that each , after having been exposed to a certain class of contemporary music,,,may carry these early musical experiences with them into their choices in composers in The High Arts? ,,,and as we grew out of say The Beatles I Want to Hold yoyr hand variety and moved into say, Hendix Live at Woodstock,,,so we now move from say Rachmaninov into,,,Schnittke,,,as a form of 
~~~Transformmation, Maturity , Development, Complexity, ,,,music that ~~Rocks our world~~~Blow our minds~~~far out~~UNREAL~~ category. Like climbing Mt Everest,,,can't go any higher, You made the journey to the pinnacle of the world. ...Byrds Eight Miles High now is for real. 


This is just one aspect of how we make choices we ultimatelt make and are drawn towards as Destiny,,as we leave fate behind us,. 
fate is if we sit half way up the Mountain,,and say,,,welp, this is it, can't go any higher,,,,Destiny seeks and searches out the new paths towards that Pinnacle of The early 20th C composers, ..
these elite who has closed out this magnificent tradition of western man;s High Art creativity. 
It is this group which has become a refuge from this death, and a art form which represents one of the very few *things* which really hold any true , eternal value. 

That is, The High arts has defeated the Illuminati, its lower forms of art called pop music, jazz, reggie, and such lower arts. Through their genius we have succor, and meaning in this meaningless madness called *society*. 



Music now lends power to the soul, to continue its journey THROUGH this dark unknown,,and acts as a torch of light , giving us reasons to trudge through these pains, sorrows and woes. 
Music defeats The Suicide Urge, and combats the Illuminati Agenda which is out to destroy our very essense. A path which The many have succumbed to.


Thoughts please.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Thank you shout out to the mods for moving this topic to the proper venue. 
Gracias


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

No offense, but I have no idea what this thread is about.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

OK, which composers of the modern period, composers born between 1870-1940 are you not at all interested in , ,,although they may be great masters, , masterpices galore,,,yet you are not at all interested in. 
Why?

There must be factors which are outside your control. 
There are sharp divisions in every dept of this society. a new prot church pops up daily = a new Christian sect.

This is what I am after,,,why do we love intensely composers which music we connect with,,and which compoers repel us 
There must be reasons. What are these factors which color our feeling receptors. 
Is our earliest musical experiences a factor?
Yes they are. 
Is this more clear? 


There are composers born 1880-1940 , whose music I really do not like,,,yet this epoch is really the only era which I follow. 


Take the romantic group,,,They pretty much like all the composers born in that era. They don't quibble and whine,,all that era's composers, they pretty much get along with just fine. A Brucknerian almost always, has no issues with Mahler,,,One who likes Chopin likes all other solo piano from the romantic era. 
In the modern period,,,now things become more varied, more unique and different. Now there are hard choices to make...The High arts has now become divided. ,,,whereas before it was all group together,,,in one big church...now it is division. ,,speaking only of composers born 1880-1940.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

What some people look to music to change in society, I would consider impossible. There’s no evidence for it, only that it helps serve certain individuals get through the day or the night. Classical music is not the cure-all for the “Illuminati” that supposedly wants to keep everyone ignorant and controlled. No one can keep you ignorant and controlled unless you take the path of least resistance. In classical music, that would mean not expecting the 1 to 3% of the people listening to it to save the 97% who don’t, let alone the obscure composers that have yet to be recognized, and that doesn’t exactly sound inspiring or hopeful. Composers are not the saviors of mankind nor the key to anything except perhaps on one’s own personal level of experience because certain composers have usually had too many struggles of their own, or they are not spiritually-minded or give any evidence of being enlightened. Look, for example, to someone like Pettersson, Schnitte or Henze as lights upon the world? I don’t think so though they can be stimulating or helpful for some listeners.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Is this thread asking why we don't like certain composers?

Dunno.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Larkenfield said:


> What some people look to music to change in society, I would consider impossible. There's no evidence for it, only that it helps serve certain individuals get through the day or the night. Classical music is not the cure-all for the "Illuminati" that supposedly wants to keep everyone ignorant and controlled. No one can keep you ignorant and controlled unless you take the path of least resistance. In classical music, that would mean not expecting the 1 to 3% of the people listening to it to save the 97% who don't, let alone the obscure composers that have yet to be recognized, and that doesn't exactly sound inspiring or hopeful. Composers are not the saviors of mankind nor the key to anything except perhaps on one's own personal level of experience because certain composers have usually had too many struggles of their own, or they are not spiritually-minded or give any evidence of being enlightened. Look, for example, to someone like Pettersson, Schnitte or Henze as lights upon the world? I don't think so though they can be stimulating or helpful for some listeners.


I don't think "society" has any agenda other than making money.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Nice post Larkenfield. 
Really great insights.

WEll if we look at composers, they all had some ideas about the *big unknown factor*, called it god, whatever. Though as you say, they were not church goers,,,like many of us here who are at home on sundays listening to our music. . That's is to say, they were not of any religious affiliations, and kept their spiritual ideas to themselves. Got that.

Every one today, has their agenda, at least those who consider themselves awake and alive.

There is a new Mahler/Beethoven topic weekly,,nothing has changed in the past 10 years.

I had to go dig a long wayyyyy back to find the Henze topic. No one is beating down doors to get to the music of Henze. A new comer here on TC, might never ever hear the name Henze,,,unless via TC forum. Henze will never be played on your local FM radio. Needle in a hay stack on some composers identities.

The broader ones range is in CM, especially favoring one modern composer,,and not others,,,shows distinctive individuality. You mention CM will not ever be a cure for man's modern day afflictions...yet for a few, music is their ~~religion~~ or lets say,,has power to be a ~~~religious STYLED experience~~~, = uplifting, rejuvenating , cleansing, transforming, maybe even , soul shking,,,= causing one to *run the asiles, jump the pews*….That's UPC's when the preacher gets all fired up,,some run, amok,,others pay no attention, may not even be moved at all,,,like turtles on a log.....Music should,,or lets say, has power to move the soul, and maybe even the spirit of a man.

I would suggest as we change in our musical journey,,,these changes show up in the reading material we are drawn to. Many of us here are interested in history, philosophy, psychology,,,and less so in politics, sports, ,,and making money,,, Movies may be the only thing pop culture offers which we find some interest...,,,But as for TVmania, , in this pop culture craze, many of us have no interest in that thing, other than say Netflix.

TV is the bane of American society. 
People back 100 yrs ago, were not at all craving for a TV set,,,yet once that movement cranked up, CM became more so a ,, boring aversion, vs the excitments of TV.

All that aside.

WE grew up with mass media and pop culture,,which may have influenced the way we hear , and chose our list of composers.

Wooduck is waiting for <<<<my bottom line>>>> *dang it would you get on with it>>> I can hear him screaming....

As I was drawn towards the underground rock so too its seems I am also favoring certain ~~underground High Arts composers.

My previous experiences formed me way back, and continue to influence my choices. 
I say if ones music is not causing the soul to ~~jump pews, run the aisles~~one might take a look at the new music, vs the old music.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

MarkW said:


> I don't think "society" has any agenda other than making money.


Great point... with the EVER shrinking $, due to schemes , scams, shams, overed by government and its sidekick, The Corporate World,,,,everyone is now struggling to make ends meet.

The High Arts is just one more *thing* in this commercialized, comsumerized world.

Next to the $, what actual value does CM hold?

The $ has now established itself as the principle value, for some it is THIS life. 
Their world revolves around The Almighty $. 
My choice in composers has to reflect my values, which stand strongly opposed to this $ agenda and EVERYTHING surrounding the Illuminati agenda.

You should see how football fan-atics reacts to their sports teamswinning /or losing...

I am that way in my composers choices...I have a team, which helps me to combat this Illuminati Agenda....As pop music comesc and then,,,goes, High Arts music will remain for the epoch. 
It has true value, pop music is like fools gold.

Like a miner, I followed the viens and have now hit the ~~Mother load~~, Illuminati is now struck down. My choices in the High arts have empowered me (you;ll see this term thrown around a lot in evangelical circles) to combat the evil illuminati agenda.

We the members of The high Arts society are indeed special. Our values are in the genius of our beloved music.
The $ factor holds no influence as it does for mass man. We are special, we are elite, we are unique and so in a way, The Chosen Few..


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

The Finns might still be worshipping Sibelius,,,the Danes , paying homage to Grieg,,,,most likely neither island has even heard of pettersson. This is what my topic is all about,,,Cutting ones self off from other composers , which is due to upbringing, propaganda, ,,living reclusively on a island such as Denmark and Finalnd…,,,having no idea just a stones throw across the channlels, was Pettersson writing masterpi8eces...
Yet both countries are too busy laying honors at their great composer, oblivious that Pettersson even existed.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

On our island we love music! We also love that people take some time to learn some music history and a bit geography.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

MarkW said:


> No offense, but I have no idea what this thread is about.


Obscuring simple questions in superfluous verbiage?


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> Obscuring simple questions in superfluous verbiage?


Apologies for any obfuscations on my part.
But the same complaint was flung at Socrates you know. 
So perhaps the fault lies less with the OP, and at least part with the outside observer, who is afraid to enter the gates of discussions.

You know this life is not like it was back in the 50's ,when things were more simple. 
Wty hech, we used to walk up to the 5 and 10,,,(that's in Cents, not $'s) and grab us a Coca-Cola and a Hotdog , 2 could chow under a buck.
Complex times calls forth intricate questions.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

but its all good, beats holding these Q's inside,,,I may be talking to myself here,,,lets say its a new form of Socratic dialogue..


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> On our island we love music! We also love that people take some time to learn some music history and a bit geography.


Hi Kjetil! I've been thinking about a visit to your island. Norway is not far off the coast of Florida, right? Or am I thinking of Finland?


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

Larkenfield said:


> Classical music is not the cure-all


sure it isn't and never was intended to be such.

music is a language the elites utilize to make statements & exchange messages.

take for example Beethoven 9th symphony which tells of what was, what is & what is to be done.

or Wagner "Der Ring" that demonstrates how it will all end...


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1411/can-daily-dose-mozart-squelch-depression


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