# Pianists on Kempffs Level?



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

He is my favorite classical pianist. Does anyone come near the level of depth he played with?


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

*Clair de lang*


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He is my favorite classical pianist. Does anyone come near the level of depth he played with?


Lots and lots of pianists. Too many to list. Kempff was a great pianist, but his recorded repertoire in stereo was limited and I don’t do mono anymore. He developed Parkinson’s and retired in 1981, but his ability to record to the level of his previous ability was likely before 10 years prior (i.e. In the 70s) given the natural history of Parkinson’s.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> *Clair de lang*


I o love this version. It's fantastic!


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I need to hear more of Brendel playing classical era music. I think he'd be well suited for that. I used to love his Beethoven, but he doesn't have enough drama in him. He's fancy and delightful like Mozart!


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> *Clair de lang*


I also love his Fur Elise.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Kempff was certainly one of the greatest classical pianists of his generation. He was notable in being very comfortable in the recording studio just as he was in the concert hall. He made two sets of Beethoven sonatas and piano concertos of which the mono sets are always reckoned to be slightly better as his technique was probably just a little better then. Though both are well worth having. 
he also made a great set of the Schubert sonatas and a set of the major Schumann works. He always eschewed virtuosity for its own sake, preferring imagination and clarity. he did though makes them remarkable Liszt recordings.
The pianist I can think of most like him is Annie Fischer.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What happened to TC?


----------



## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

Rudolf Serkin.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He is my favorite classical pianist. Does anyone come near the level of depth he played with?


Check Eduardo del Pueyo and Francesco Piemontesi.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Check Eduardo del Pueyo and Francesco Piemontesi.



Usually you have great suggestions, these did nothing for me. Quite bland indeed!


----------



## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> *Clair de lang*


Shouldn’t this be posted in the “Let’s be Absurd” thread? Whoever next? Van Cliburn!?


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

marlow said:


> Kempff was certainly one of the greatest classical pianists of his generation. He was notable in being very comfortable in the recording studio just as he was in the concert hall. He made two sets of Beethoven sonatas and piano concertos of which the mono sets are always reckoned to be slightly better as his technique was probably just a little better then. Though both are well worth having.
> he also made a great set of the Schubert sonatas and a set of the major Schumann works. He always eschewed virtuosity for its own sake, preferring imagination and clarity. he did though makes them remarkable Liszt recordings.
> The pianist I can think of most like him is Annie Fischer.


just to say that Kempff was also a splendid player ofMozart too.his discs of Mozart piano concertos are treasurable. 
of course the great classical pianists of his era are the very different Rudolf Serkin whose rugged style contrasts sharply with Kempff. Then Schnabel of course, a generation before.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Shouldn’t this be posted in the “Let’s be Absurd” thread? Whoever next? Van Cliburn!?


He's hit or miss I feel. But when he hits, it's great imo.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

marlow said:


> just to say that Kempff was also a splendid player ofMozart too.his discs of Mozart piano concertos are treasurable.
> of course the great classical pianists of his era are the very different Rudolf Serkin whose rugged style contrasts sharply with Kempff. Then Schnabel of course, a generation before.


I find Serkin very bland. This is based on listening to Beethoven PC 1.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Too smooth in fact, not rugged at all.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also peeped his Waldenstein, no heart.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Usually you have great suggestions, these did nothing for me. Quite bland indeed!


There’s something about Kempff in their approach, anti-virtuosity. Maybe give Eduardo del Pueyo in late Beethoven another chance.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> There’s something about Kempff in their approach, anti-virtuosity. Maybe give Eduardo del Pueyo in late Beethoven another chance.


Will do! . I'll report back. I think what Kempff lacks in virtuosity he makes up for with lots of emotional depth.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I just put on his Waldenstein. It doesn't do it for me, to clean, forced dynamic touch. Not from the heart.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I should give Trifonov a try.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This is fantastic. I'm listening to Daniil do Chopin's PC 2.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Kempff's Beethoven sonatas (both sets) are among the very few sets of the works that I think of as essential. There is no one like him in Beethoven, he is far more meditative in his approach than any others. His Beethoven is absolutely distinctive (as are other great sets of the works). I was interested to see a suggestion above that his pianism resembles Annie Fischer's. Fischer's Beethoven set is another that I revere but to me what she does is a polar opposite of what Kempff does.

In other repertoire, Kempff is almost always rewarding (his Mozart has a lovely crystalline quality). His Schubert can seem a little lacking in character compared to the best but is still very worthwhile.

But to answer the OP, pianists on Kempff's level? There may be a good few but one thing is certain - they will sound completely different. Pianism at his level is very distinctive.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I feel like all the real TCers have been kidnapped. These posts feel shallow.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ If the opposite of shallow is to laud him and then a few posts later to pan his (excellent IMO) Waldstein without any analysis that is too deep for me! Is it an exception, one he got wrong, or is it just a work you prefer more showiness? Or perhaps you just weren't in the mood for it today?


----------



## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Like Kempff, Alfred Brendel is also "a true poet" of the keyboard. Emil Gilels is also someone to whom I refer with similar attributes.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ If the opposite of shallow is to laud him and then a few posts later to pan his (excellent IMO) Waldstein without any analysis that is too deep for me! Is it an exception, one he got wrong, or is it just a work you prefer more showiness? Or perhaps you just weren't in the mood for it today?


I love Kempff's Waldenstein (mono). I was talking about Rudolf Serkin.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Waehnen said:


> Like Kempff, Alfred Brendel is also "a true poet" of the keyboard. Emil Gilels is also someone to whom I refer with similar attributes.


 I reserve the word poet for lovely romantic era works.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I love Kempff's Waldenstein (mono). I was talking about a different pianist, one that Mandryka suggested.


Ah, OK.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

29 posts but (unless I missed it) no mention of Richter?


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Was that a mention? It was Richter who turned me into a fan of piano sonatas. The sense of concentration in much of his playing always draws me in.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

When I got into classical music in the 1980s, Kempff, Brendel and Arrau were probably the highest regarded/most advertised pianists for Beethoven, Schubert, maybe also Mozart and Brahms. I got a couple of discs with Kempff but as soon as I heard other pianists and developed a bit of ability to distinguish I came to prefer others. Overall, I have probably not heard enough Kempff (besides Beethoven some Schumann and Brahms) but I don't really understand the reputation. He might be good in the more lyrical/whimsical shorter Schumann pieces but I don't care for the Beethoven I have heard. Not enough power, drama etc. and there are so many other (better) options. I don't hear anything that special in the more lyrical pieces like the much praised LvB op.28 or similar sonatas.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The Penguin Guide to Classical Music said this about Kempff's recordings of the Beethoven piano sonatas in 1976: "Kempff has been providing a deeply spiritual experience for record collectors since the 1920s...Kempff more than any other pianist has the power to make one appreciate and understand Beethoven in a new way."Kempff's early Beethoven was compared for the most part to the other great Viennese pianist of the day, Artur Schnabel, whose style was more technique-driven. Kempff was the first major pianist in the 20th century to probe Beethoven's spiritual side. He was followed by other pianists of a stripe including the British pianist known as Solomon, the German Alfred Brendel and his protegee Paul Lewis -- giving us a century of such pianism. One has to wonder if Kempff never started this trend would anyone have discovered and continued it? Most new piano players focus almost completely on technique and prestidigitation, especially since Glenn Gould made that style so popular.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> When I got into classical music in the 1980s, Kempff, Brendel and Arrau were probably the highest regarded/most advertised pianists for Beethoven, Schubert, maybe also Mozart and Brahms. I got a couple of discs with Kempff but as soon as I heard other pianists and developed a bit of ability to distinguish I came to prefer others. Overall, I have probably not heard enough Kempff (besides Beethoven some Schumann and Brahms) but I don't really understand the reputation.


His reputation is based on his mono recordings, a small number of live recordings, and DG's marketing in the 1970s and 1980s.





Kreisler jr said:


> Not enough power, drama etc.


The dynamic range of the DG stereo recordings may not do him justice. What do you think of his op 106 (which I like very much.)


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Why can't I delete this?


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> His reputation is based on his mono recordings, a small number of live recordings, and DG's marketing in the 1970s and 1980s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just prefer old recordings. They are raw and it seems like little studio magic is used to make it feel like more than what the artist is trying to actually express.


----------



## classicalmusicfinder (9 mo ago)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He is my favorite classical pianist. Does anyone come near the level of depth he played with?



Mark Iter


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Mandryka said:


> His reputation is based on his mono recordings, a small number of live recordings, and DG's marketing in the 1970s and 1980s.


Exactly. See the Penguin quote with wisdom, depth blather above. I "grew up" with the German version of such blather in the 1980s... 
I have heard one disc of the mono Beethoven, incl. the much praised "Pastoral" op.28 and some of the mono Schumann praised by stuffy bourgeois German "reviewer popes" and was not terribly impressed. It's all rather small scale and it can't be only the mono. Schnabel or Fischer are mono, often much worse sound but not small scale...



> The dynamic range of the DG stereo recordings may not do him justice. What do you think of his op 106 (which I like very much.)


I don't have it anymore. This was on one of the first discs I bought over 30 years ago but culled later.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

classicalmusicfinder said:


> Mark Iter


Seriously? IMO, this raises questions about the thread just started on this ‘Mark Iter’.


----------



## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Waehnen said:


> Like Kempff, Alfred Brendel is also "a true poet" of the keyboard. Emil Gilels is also someone to whom I refer with similar attributes.


I think Gilels is a good comparison to Kempff - of course Gilels is more well-rounded but they share the same lyrical sensitivity. 

I like some of Kempff in Beethoven (e.g. his Pathetique) but wouldn't say he's one of my favourite pianists. His Schubert, on the other hand, is fantastic.


----------



## classicalmusicfinder (9 mo ago)

DaveM said:


> Seriously? IMO, this raises questions about the thread just started on this ‘Mark Iter’.


Yeah, I'm on a bit of a Mark Iter craze. I should say that the pianists are entirely different, though the control and precision both show is notable.


----------



## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> *Clair de lang*


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

marlow said:


> Kempff was certainly one of the greatest classical pianists of his generation. He was notable in being very comfortable in the recording studio just as he was in the concert hall. He made two sets of Beethoven sonatas and piano concertos of which the mono sets are always reckoned to be slightly better as his technique was probably just a little better then. Though both are well worth having.
> he also made a great set of the Schubert sonatas and a set of the major Schumann works. He always eschewed virtuosity for its own sake, preferring imagination and clarity. he did though makes them remarkable Liszt recordings.
> The pianist I can think of most like him is Annie Fischer.


just to say that Kempff was also a splendid player ofMozart too.his discs of Mozart piano concertos are treasurable.
of course the great classical pianists of his era are the very different Rudolf Serkin whose rugged style contrasts sharply with Kempff. Then Schnabel of course, a generation before.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Bernamej said:


> View attachment 166989


may I respectfully say that this sort of thing does nothing to promote a serious discussion and would ask the members to refrain. Sorry to be a killjoy!


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Gallus said:


> I think Gilels is a good comparison to Kempff - of course Gilels is more well-rounded but they share the same lyrical sensitivity.


Of course? I'm not so sure. With Gilels I often hear a great performer but with Kempff I get the feeling he is playing for ... himself? God?


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is Kempff at his best I think. It is indeed spontaneous sounding, it is confidential sounding, and his gentle way of creating a pulse is miraculous. And Kreisler Jr, listen to the way he handles the dynamic changes at around 4:20

Kempff plays Liszt - Deux légendes, S. 175; No. 1; La prédication aux oiseaux - YouTube


----------



## classicalmusicfinder (9 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> This is Kempff at his best I think. It is indeed spontaneous sounding, it is confidential sounding, and his gentle way of creating a pulse is miraculous. And Kreisler Jr, listen to the way he handles the dynamic changes at around 4:20
> 
> Kempff plays Liszt - Deux légendes, S. 175; No. 1; La prédication aux oiseaux - YouTube


That is a great recording. Yeah, the combination of gentle playing mixed with the slamming notes is great.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*The thread was closed (temporarily) for repairs. Several posts that we deemed unsuitable because of chiding and insults have been deleted. It is open once more for discussion/*


----------



## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

classicalmusicfinder said:


> That is a great recording. Yeah, the combination of gentle playing mixed with the slamming notes is great.


Thank you very much for this insight.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> *The thread was closed (temporarily) for repairs. Several posts that we deemed unsuitable because of chiding and insults have been deleted. It is open once more for discussion/*


Extraordinary. What?


----------

