# Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps



## soni (Jul 3, 2018)

Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time is currently on the 15th tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works.

Wikipedia article

Trout's recommended recordings:


> 1. Tashi (1975)
> 2. De Peyer, Gruenberg, Pleeth, Béroff (1968)
> 3. P. Meyer, Shaham, Wang, Chung (1999)
> 4. W. Meyer, Poppen, Fischer-Dieskau, Loriod (1990)
> ...


My word, is this great music! To think that this was composed in a prisoners of war camp - wow!
*What do you think of this work? Do you love it? Adore it? Haven't listened yet?*


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

This is one of my favorite works from the first half of the twentieth century. I hope many more generations of listeners get to hear it! 

The TASHI recording is the one I usually listen to. The only other one I've heard is Loriod, and I don't like it nearly as much. I would like to hear De Peyer though....


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

soni said:


> Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time is currently on the 15th tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works.
> 
> Wikipedia article
> 
> ...


So it looks like the most recent star ensemble on Sony didn't make the cut?

Martin Fröst on clarinet, Janine Jansen on violin, Lucas Debarge on piano and Th. Thedeen on cello:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Ras said:


> So it looks like the most recent star ensemble on Sony didn't make the cut?
> 
> Martin Fröst on clarinet, Janine Jansen on violin, Lucas Debarge on piano and Th. Thedeen on cello:
> 
> View attachment 129394


Trout compiled the recommendations for this work about three years before that was released, so it's nice to know about this one.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Messiaen is in my top 5 favorite composers and I quite love this piece. I always find the ending particularly beautiful. I think it's one of his most accessible as I think the chamber ensemble makes his striking use of color and mysticism more digestible. Part of me wishes he continued to write more chamber works, but I suppose his ideas and style became too colossal.

Listening to the Frost recording now.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

This is a masterpiece of modernism IMO. One of the few atonal (I don't know whether that term is accurate here, but it sounds so to my musically conservative ears) compositions I've heard that I have been able to enjoy. There is a rich, haunting beauty beyond the surface of this music that I have to be in the mood to appreciate, but when I do, it is quite rewarding. Messiaen writes uniquely and brilliantly for all four instruments and really harnesses their coloristic potentials. What's really fascinating to me about this work (and about Messiaen in general) is his interest in theological themes. Though I don't believe the work should be treated as explicit program music, there is a definite sense of spirituality that is almost impossible to ignore. Movements like the long clarinet solo and "Praise to the Eternity of Jesus" seem to inspire an extended state of meditation. Of course, Messiaen had a very unique mind with his synesthesia and his very personal faith. I don't think it's fully possible to understand his complete intentions since they were so esoteric. But at the very least, it's music that makes us think abstractly, and music that engages the senses very intimately. And that's enough to celebrate for me.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Warner Classics CD of the Quartet paired with Dorati's Chronochromie is my current favorite. Recorded in the late 60s. I give this CD a 10/10 for sound and performance. A superb re-issue!


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> This is a masterpiece of modernism IMO. One of the few atonal (I don't know whether that term is accurate here, but it sounds so to my musically conservative ears) compositions I've heard that I have been able to enjoy. There is a rich, haunting beauty beyond the surface of this music that I have to be in the mood to appreciate, but when I do, it is quite rewarding. Messiaen writes uniquely and brilliantly for all four instruments and really harnesses their coloristic potentials. What's really fascinating to me about this work (and about Messiaen in general) is his interest in theological themes. Though I don't believe the work should be treated as explicit program music, there is a definite sense of spirituality that is almost impossible to ignore. Movements like the long clarinet solo and "Praise to the Eternity of Jesus" seem to inspire an extended state of meditation. Of course, Messiaen had a very unique mind with his synesthesia and his very personal faith. I don't think it's fully possible to understand his complete intentions since they were so esoteric. But at the very least, it's music that makes us think abstractly, and music that engages the senses very intimately. And that's enough to celebrate for me.


I'm pretty sure Messiaen's music (including this piece) is not strictly atonal - but it certainly sounds like he is moving in that vein.

I love this piece and absolutely hated it in my youth.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

One of my favourite 20th century chamber music pieces. In my tiers ranking, it comes up as "essential". I have the version by De Peyer, Gruenberg, Pleeth, Béroff.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

A great work with a backstory that I find deeply interesting - both as history and as an example of modern music being played and enjoyed in the most unlikely of circumstances. More and more I am becoming allergic to choosing best performances of favourite works! There are many that I enjoy but that are very different from each other - I don't think there is a single right way (although there may be wrong ways!) - and I think I get to know more about the piece by enjoying such a range. I could probably arrive at 3 or 4 very different favourites but anyway I have enjoyed these


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

And these


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> And these
> 
> View attachment 129443


...that one has been my favorite since I first heard it and remains so in spite of the Gramophone reviewer Roger Nichols pointing out several mistakes such as "not being able to distinguish between semiquavers and demi-semiquavers", instruments out of tune etc.

You can read the entire review on amazon.co.uk posted as a one star review here :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/product-re...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I wonder how the players in the first performance - apparently great success - did? Meanwhile, interpreters have long made small changes to works they are performing and this can be criticised as (pedantically) "not what was written" or as (more meaningfully) (I didn't like the way the did that).


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

...by the way - this recording:








has been re-released at a decent price coupled with the "Turanguila" symphony:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Not really my favourite work by Messiaen. I like his Chronochromie much more. It sounds quite tonal to me.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Which one sounds tonal? Quite a lot of the Quartet for the End of Time _is _tonal, I am told. My ears don't tell me what music is and is not tonal (or if they do the message meets with incomprehension in my brain) so for me at least the distinction is of no value at all!


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

My first exposure to this piece was a bit surreal. I had been in the habit of setting my morning alarm to a classical music radio station. I found myself half in a dream state, slowly waking up, and hearing this music for the first time. It was magical for me. It wasn't until a few years later that I really looked into it and got the Shaham, Wang, Chung, Meyer recording and fell for it.

It is an amazing work. The clarinet solo as a metaphor of the lone apocalyptic bird is mind-bendingly powerful. And the spiritual moments especially by the violin and cello in some of the outer movements are wonderful as well.

I'd call it one of the masterpieces of the 20th century.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

From my absolute favorite classical music site on the Internet, an amazing article that is probably the most detailed and informative guide out there on this work:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/quatuor.html


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Which one sounds tonal? Quite a lot of the Quartet for the End of Time _is _tonal, I am told. My ears don't tell me what music is and is not tonal (or if they do the message meets with incomprehension in my brain) so for me at least the distinction is of no value at all!


A lot of it uses tonal-kind of chords (major and minor triads) but don't necessarily adhere to the general practice tonal system, or in other words it uses traditional chords in unconventional progressions.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

One of the most interesting things about this piece to me is that it's not your typical fire and brimstone "apocalypse" piece. There are fiery moments for sure, but unlike most pieces with an "end of times" theme, it focuses much more on the transcendent/spiritual aspect of a hypothetical end of the world experience than most pieces of art would. At first I was turned off because it wasn't what I expected from the title, but now I find it to be an incredibly unique, refreshing take on the topic.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I came across this article which I found quite informative about the circumstances that led to the work and Messiaen's intentions for the music.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/quatuor.html


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I came across this article which I found quite informative about the circumstances that led to the work and Messiaen's intentions for the music.
> 
> http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/quatuor.html


For the history of the work, I recommend this:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Just heard this live tonight, and all the musicians were fantastic, but the clarinet just blew me away. What a great part.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

The music is masterful but I find it incredibly sad and harrowing. I can't "enjoy" it.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

NoCoPilot said:


> The music is masterful but I find it incredibly sad and harrowing. I can't "enjoy" it.


It's a curious thing about humanity. Most of us enjoy representations of things that we don't enjoy.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

It's a masterpiece, one of my favorite works of 20th century classical music... and yet it probably isn't even my favorite Messiaen work! Just a testament to how many great pieces he produced. In the right mood with the right recording it can be a profoundly moving experience. Knowing the context helps, but even without that the music speaks well enough for itself. As @violadude mentioned I appreciate how it subverts typical tropes of apocalyptic works to focus on the spiritual aspects. It very much seems to a be a piece searching for God, or even humanity, in an inhumane world.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

NoCoPilot said:


> The music is masterful but I find it incredibly sad and harrowing. I can't "enjoy" it.


Sad music should still be in some way uplifting. But I wonder why this music makes you so sad. It is not a word I would use to describe it.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Alex Ross begins his article on the work as follows:

The most ethereally beautiful music of the twentieth century was first heard on a brutally cold January night in 1941, at the Stalag VIIIA prisoner-of-war camp, in Görlitz, Germany.









Revelations: Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time


by Alex Ross The New Yorker, March 22, 2004. "Louange à l'éternité de Jésus," live performance from the Banff Centre, May 24, 2007, with Matt Haimovitz, cello, and Frederic Chiu, piano. By kind permission of Banff. Recommended recording: Tashi. The...



www.therestisnoise.com


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> From my absolute favorite classical music site on the Internet, an amazing article that is probably the most detailed and informative guide out there on this work:
> 
> Classical Notes - Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin de Temps (Quartet for the End of Time), By Peter Gutmann


Interesting quote from that article:

“Overall, Tashi seems to look not backward to the wrenching time of the _Quatuor's_ creation but ahead to music of the future that, for better or worse, lauds precision over personality.”


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

science said:


> It's a curious thing about humanity. Most of us enjoy representations of things that we don't enjoy.


But the quartet is not about sad things. Maybe about mindblowing or terrifying things but clearly not about a sad cold prison camp.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Kreisler jr said:


> But the quartet is not about sad things. Maybe about mindblowing or terrifying things but clearly not about a sad cold prison camp.


I think you intended to reply to someone else.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I had a "I'm going to like this piece of bloody music" blitz a couple of years back, having never really understood the fuss. There's a real cold clarity to that Gil Shaham/Chung set on DGG, and perhaps surprisingly, that was the recording that allowed me to make a connection with the Quartet.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

CnC Bartok said:


> I had a "I'm going to like this piece of bloody music" blitz a couple of years back, having never really understood the fuss. There's a real cold clarity to that Gil Shaham/Chung set on DGG, and perhaps surprisingly, that was the recording that allowed me to make a connection with the Quartet.


Shaham/Chung's very slow take of the 5th movement is especially fantastic!


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

science said:


> I think you intended to reply to someone else.


It's a problem with nested quotations. I probably should have responded to the message you responded to "The music is masterful but I find it incredibly sad and harrowing. I can't "enjoy" it."
but you seemed to agree and I agreed with the statement that we enjoy representations of sad things, like lovesick opera characters.
In any case, if the titles by Messiaen are an indication, the quartet is not supposed to be "sad music".


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