# My biggest problem with Thielemann's Beethoven DVDs



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Is it his dour expression?

Is it his interpretive choices?

Is it the venue?

No, it's none of these...


it's


The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra.

On CD they're fine. But, why would anyone want to watch them on a DVD? A virtually all-male ensemble might be fine aurally, but visually.....YAWN


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I find Thielemann's performances of the Beethoven symphonies both dull and wayward. He indulges in some excruciating changes of tempo, ritardandos and accellerandos that are not in the score in a way that ruins the natural ebb and flow of the music.

I really can't listen to them.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I hear these programs are good. Has anyone here seen them?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I bought the Blu-Ray with 7-9 on it. Thus far, I've only watched 7 and the hour-long commentary on it that's also on the disc.

I really didn't mind his interpretation, it's just that the whole thing was pretty visually dull. He's not very entertaining to watch and the orchestra, as I indicated, is just an endless sea of old men in formal dress.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Vesteralen said:


> I bought the Blu-Ray with 7-9 on it. Thus far, I've only watched 7 and the hour-long commentary on it that's also on the disc.
> 
> I really didn't mind his interpretation, it's just that the whole thing was pretty visually dull. He's not very entertaining to watch and the orchestra, as I indicated, is just an endless sea of old men in formal dress.


Well, you are forcing us to look at yet another one ;-)

EDIT: Vesteralen has since changed his avatar picture.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

joen_cph said:


> Well, you are forcing us to look at yet another one ;-)


too-SHAY


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> I really didn't mind his interpretation, it's just that the whole thing was pretty visually dull. He's not very entertaining to watch and the orchestra, as I indicated, is just an endless sea of old men in formal dress.


Are you asking for recommendations of videos that feature attractive women?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

There...is that better?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

bigshot said:


> Are you asking for recommendations of videos that feature attractive women?


I didn't say anything about attractive....


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

I know how Vesteralen feels because I get bored when I watch all white/black/whatever people doing anything. Even ballet. I prefer non-homogenous groups. South Africa is not nicknamed the Rainbow Nation for nothing.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Vesteralen said:


> I really didn't mind his interpretation, it's just that the whole thing was pretty visually dull. He's not very entertaining to watch and the orchestra, as I indicated, is just an endless sea of old men in formal dress.


Classical concerts are not usually very exciting to watch. The most important thing is the MUSIC, in case it has escaped your notice. Would you have preferred Thielemann to have indulged in some bizarre dancing and flailing around? I suppose that then, at least, there would have been SOMETHING interesting about the videos.

Terminally dull!


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I meant this to be a light-hearted kind of thread. But, if you must know, here's an article that inspired me to start it:

http://www.osborne-conant.org/vpo2011.htm


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> Classical concerts are not usually very exciting to watch. The most important thing is the MUSIC, in case it has escaped your notice. Would you have preferred Thielemann to have indulged in some bizarre dancing and flailing around? I suppose that then, at least, there would have been SOMETHING interesting about the videos.
> 
> Terminally dull!


No need to get huffy, DM...

See above post for explanation.

Time to bow out of this whole thing before somebody turns into a forum terrorist.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

By the way, is that Chaminade ?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

joen_cph said:


> By the way, is that Chaminade ?


Indeed it is.

My picture change might have been funnier if it didn't also change all my old posts.....
But, we know how these things work.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> I didn't say anything about attractive....


You're looking for unattractive women?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

bigshot said:


> You're looking for unattractive women?


Read the previous posts, bigshot.

My intention was to draw attention to the VPO's stance toward hiring women orchestra members in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way. I really don't care if they're attractive or not.

But, in all fairness to Mr. Thielemann and the Beethoven DVD set - leaving aside the issue of women orchestra members (and there are three in this DVD - each on the very periphery of the camera shots) - the editing really wasn't all that bad. They made an effort to zero in on instruments or instrument groups that offered something significant at a particular point in the performance. And, I actually enjoyed the discussion video on the symphony. I'm not sure I agreed with everything they said about the piece, but there were some enjoyable anecdotes about famous conductors. There were also several portions that cut from one to another to yet another famous conductor leading an orchestra through certain passages in the work (Bohm, Solti, Karajan, Bernstein..) that were fun to see and hear.

So, it wasn't by any means a complete waste.

So, once and for all - let me put to rest the idea that I was complaining about the absence of eye-candy...though it's easy to see why people would have thought that.

Lesson learned to me - emoticons don't always get your message across.

(Oh...and one more thing to a previous poster...no I don't expect a conductor to leap around on the platform. Nevertheless, some conductors are just more entertaining to watch. And, with a DVD - it may MOSTLY be about the music, but it isn't ALL about the music. I expect to get something extra from watching a performance. Otherwise, I'll just get a CD and listen to it. As I said above, there were _some_ good things about the visuals, just not quite enough for me to be anxious to go on to the next work on the disc.)


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Some dull-looking people who weren´t particularly dull:








Dmitri Mitropoulos








Vaclav Talich & Hermann Scherchen:


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Vesteralen said:


> No need to get huffy, DM...
> 
> See above post for explanation.
> 
> Time to bow out of this whole thing before somebody turns into a forum terrorist.


Oh, I wasn't getting huffy - that's just my style. You need to take cover in a concrete bunker when I get huffy, believe me. My tongue was gently in my cheek when I typed my previous post.


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