# Why are the two greatest Isolde's Scandinavian?



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)




----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

The water.
And good genes, I think. Kirsten Flagstad was known even as a child for her powerful voice. To only have seen her live.

And I presume the other one is Birgit Nilsson, not Rosa Sucher? Because Sucher was German, and that is not a picture of Nilsson up there.


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

That was actually a picture of Sucher that somehow appeared in a search for Nilsson, corrected now


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

And now, for some reason, it appears to be Sutherland, who I'm pretty sure never ever sang Isolde ... :lol:


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Curse my inability to distinguish their faces!
and curse googles trickery!

They all look the same to me


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Scandinavians are just more awesome.

We all know how obsessed Wagner was with Norse mythology anyway. So it should come as no surprise.


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

World Violist said:


> *Scandinavians are just more awesome.*
> 
> We all know how obsessed Wagner was with Norse mythology anyway. So it should come as no surprise.


Yes. Yes, we are.

And I don't know if I've been influenced by Wagner and the stereotypes thereof, but I have this idea of Wagner being typically "Scandinavian" music, in a way.


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

But its still weird?

Wagner wrote in german, which is slightly different from the norse languages.
The norse composers (i.e. Sibelius) are nothing like Wagner or the germanic composers that followed,


----------



## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

Traubel is Scandanavian?


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Rangstrom said:


> Traubel is Scandanavian?


Have I made another mistake?


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> But its still weird?
> 
> Wagner wrote in german, which is slightly different from the norse languages.
> The norse composers (i.e. Sibelius) are nothing like Wagner or the germanic composers that followed,


Sibelius was not a "norse" composer. He was Finnish. The Finns have a different language and are a different people from the Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, etc. 
Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, whereas German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic are all Germanic languages.

Composers like Peterson-Berger and Grieg, who are norse composers are rather more like Wagner than Sibelius.


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Oops sorry did not know that.

Still I do not see much resemblance between Grieg and Wagner, they are like opposites. 
Grieg is a light sugary milk chocolate with fruit. Wagner is a thick block of 99% cacao.


----------



## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

I'll give you *Birgit Nilsson* in Böhm's _Tristan_, but you've gotta give me *Margaret Price* in Kleiber's _Tristan_!

http://www.amazon.com/Tristan-Isold...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1298505428&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Trista...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1298505386&sr=1-1


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sebastien Melmoth said:


> I'll give you *Birgit Nilsson* in Böhm's _Tristan_, but you've gotta give me *Margaret Price* in Kleiber's _Tristan_!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Tristan-Isold...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1298505428&sr=1-2
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Trista...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1298505386&sr=1-1


Yep, Price was priceless... pun intended.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Interestingly, Sutherland could have become a Wagner soprano if she had not been steered by her husband and coach Richard Bonynge toward the Bel Canto repertoire and other things. Before she came under his influence, she was showing the tendency to tilt toward that Fach. Who knows what an Isolde or Brunnhilde she might have been? 
She had the potential , and did record an LP of Wagner exceprts with Bonyge back in the late 70s I believe, which as far as I know has not come out on CD yet. 
She also famously recorded the voice of the forest bird in Solti's Siegfried, along with Nilsson,Windgassen and Hotter.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Aksel said:


> The Finns have a different language and are a different people from the Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, etc.
> Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, whereas German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic are all Germanic languages.


All correct of course but I'd just like to say that Finnish culture is often quite similar to the Scandinavian cultures, despite these differences.


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Xaltotun said:


> All correct of course but I'd just like to say that Finnish culture is often quite similar to the Scandinavian cultures, despite these differences.


Yes, of course. But I think the Finnish state of mind, for lack of better words, is different from the other Scandinavian countries. At least the image I have of it is one that is very melancholy and more solemn than its neighbours to the west, at least.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I agree again, that is how it seems to be


----------



## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

superhorn said:


> She had the potential , and did record an LP of Wagner exceprts with Bonyge back in the late 70s I believe, which as far as I know has not come out on CD yet.


I'm not sure, if she sang Brünnhilde's Immolation scene on the original LP, but I think everything else from that record is in "The Art of Joan Sutherland" 6CD box, which I ordered from Australia, but it seems to be available in Amazon.com.

Caballé also recorded a Wagner LP. Neither is very enjoyable.


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Aksel said:


> Sibelius was not a "norse" composer. He was Finnish. The Finns have a different language and are a different people from the Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, etc.
> Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, whereas German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic are all Germanic languages.
> 
> Composers like Peterson-Berger and Grieg, who are norse composers are rather more like Wagner than Sibelius.


Sibelius native language was Swedish.


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

emiellucifuge said:


> Oops sorry did not know that.
> 
> Still I do not see much resemblance between Grieg and Wagner, they are like opposites.
> Grieg is a light sugary milk chocolate with fruit. Wagner is a thick block of 99% cacao.


Some of Griegs music is clearly similar to Wagner.
The reason why the greatest Wagner singers are Scandinavians is because more Scandinavians than others have voices that makes them good to sing for example Isolde. Scandinavian languages are somewhat similar to German and there have always been a strong German influence in Scandinavia it is a popular language to learn. When Nilsson and Flagstad were young it was probably more likely to learn German than English.
Then there are exceptions not all Scandinavian sopranos are dramatic sopranos.


----------

