# medieval music is very zen



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Yap i said it and there never been better advertissement to a message in history, medieval music permits me to evade this sad era we live in, to a glorious old time, because we all need somesort
of trip to escape sad reality, i for one choose medieval music has exorcize music, you feel better afterward.

I need to mandatory and imperatively subject ''DISCOVER early music '' double cd on naxos, because you know you can get enought of this medieval or renaissance music(naxos double the pleasure 2 cd for the price of one) how can someone go wrong whit this hey.

If you have any interrest at all in ancient music trust me and buy this double cd
Your pal deprofundis.

:tiphat:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I can agree, the old Medieval music does have this "zen" quality about it. Hard to explain. It's pleasantly serene, calms the soul. Five hundred years later or more, we still listen to it.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I cannot help but hear mediaeval music like Middle Eastern (Arabic) music. It's the lute, which sounds like and is related to the Oud.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I can zen out to pretty much anything which is classical or jazz lately. Kudos and enjoy the music.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Yap i said it and there never been better advertissement to a message in history, medieval music permits me to evade this sad era we live in, to *a glorious old time*, because we all need somesort
> of trip to escape sad reality, i for one choose medieval music has exorcize music, you feel better afterward.


Yeah, I like medieval music a lot too, but "a glorious old time"?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> I cannot help but hear mediaeval music like Middle Eastern (Arabic) music. It's the lute, which sounds like and is related to the Oud.


Not surprising when you listen to somebody like Jordi Savall playing Spanish mediaeval music using oud, rebab, psaltery and dulcimer and then moving over into the related Middle Eastern styles.


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## TradeMark (Mar 12, 2015)

Zen has absolutely nothing to do medieval music.

I like medieval music but I hate how the term "zen" is thrown around and used where it doesn't apply. I doubt most of the people who do this actually know what the word means.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

TradeMark said:


> Zen has absolutely nothing to do medieval music.
> 
> I like medieval music but I hate how the term "zen" is thrown around and used where it doesn't apply.


Ha! My wife is watching some TV show about this or that, and I heard the announcer say something about "Zen meditation practices 3,000 years old." Check your Wiki, dude!!!


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

"zen" as used in the OP probably dates from the mid-twentieth century (beat, hippies, psychedelia).

"zen" meaning meditation... well take your pick...the Buddha lived more than 2000 years ago and he was taught meditation practices by others.


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## Potiphera (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks, I never was quite sure what 'zen' meant. Now I know.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Zen is a school of Mahayana Buddhism that developed in China starting in the late 5th century AD. Its non-legendary history dates from the mid-700s, during the Tang dynasty.

"A special transmission outside the scriptures,
Not founded upon words and letters;
By pointing directly to the mind
It lets one see one's true nature and attain Buddhahood."


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

TradeMark said:


> Zen has absolutely nothing to do medieval music.
> 
> I like medieval music but I hate how the term "zen" is thrown around and used where it doesn't apply. I doubt most of the people who do this actually know what the word means.


Hear, hear...

Our forum member TradeMark is right on the mark. Imo its but a buzzword thrown in because it is somewhat exotic to the Western minded person(s) who have ignored the benefits of a good education. I come think about a former president of an Ivy League University who told every incoming class of freshmen that if they wanted a degree he would give it to them after his speech and they could then go home, but those who wanted an education were welcomed to four wonderful years of Blood, Sweat, Tears, and hard work.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Yap i said it and there never been better advertissement to a message in history, medieval music permits me to evade this sad era we live in, to a glorious old time, because we all need somesort
> of trip to escape sad reality, i for one choose medieval music has exorcize music, you feel better afterward.
> 
> I need to mandatory and imperatively subject ''DISCOVER early music '' double cd on naxos, because you know you can get enought of this medieval or renaissance music(naxos double the pleasure 2 cd for the price of one) how can someone go wrong whit this hey.
> ...





KenOC said:


> Zen is a school of Mahayana Buddhism that developed in China starting in the late 5th century AD. Its non-legendary history dates from the mid-700s, during the Tang dynasty.
> 
> "A special transmission outside the scriptures,
> Not founded upon words and letters;
> ...


Yes but the word has come to mean more than a brand of buddhism. Being zen can mean being laid back, easy going, relaxed. I guess the OP was just saying that early music is hyonotically relaxing. And some early music is indeed zen . . . in that sense.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Top definition from the Urban Dictionary:
*One way to think of zen is this: a total state of focus that incorporates a total togetherness of body and mind. Zen is a way of being. It also is a state of mind. Zen involves dropping illusion and seeing things without distortion created by your own thoughts. - "Sun is warm, grass is green."*

And from the Online Slang Dictionary, these two examples:
a) to be at peace... back to wholeness, so to speak.
*I went to the spa last weekend. I'm totally Zen now.*

b) *"I know you hate going to the dentist, but you have gum disease, so you need to pull up your big girl pants and make an appointment."
"You're right, I'll make an appointment. And I'll try to be Zen about that 'big girl pants' comment."*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good for an oldie like me to find out about. Thanks, OP, dogen, Trademark, Ilarion, Mandryka! :tiphat:

On the other hand, knowing now that 'zen' is a buzzword, I wouldn't use it. Fashionable slang tends to mask one's precise meaning, and blur the reader's response too. And it would make me look as if I was trying to be cool, perish the thought! 

I certainly do, quite often, experience medieval music as 'a moment out of time', where I seem to be *almost-realising* something* t*rue, *o*ther, & *b*eautiful, *u*tterly.

Anyway, here is a lovely medieval piece that's *mystical* - *timeless* - *zen* - *tobu* - or *whatever*...


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

Ingélou said:


> Top definition from the Urban Dictionary:
> *One way to think of zen is this: a total state of focus that incorporates a total togetherness of body and mind. Zen is a way of being. It also is a state of mind. Zen involves dropping illusion and seeing things without distortion created by your own thoughts. - "Sun is warm, grass is green."*
> 
> And from the Online Slang Dictionary, these two examples:
> ...


Aye, there's a conflation betwixt zen meaning meditation (Sanskrit root dyana), Zen Buddhism /Japanese school of Buddhism and zen the western psycho/marketing notion.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Ingélou said:


> I certainly do, quite often, experience medieval music as 'a moment out of time', where I seem to be *almost-realising* something* t*rue, *o*ther, & *b*eautiful, *u*tterly.
> 
> Anyway, here is a lovely medieval piece that's *mystical* - *timeless* - *zen* - *tobu* - or *whatever*...


Incidentally, "tobu" in Japanese, when written 飛ぶ, means "to fly."


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

"Western psycho/marketing notion" - I don't even want to think about what that notion could possibly imply...


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2015)

Ilarion said:


> "Western psycho/marketing notion" - I don't even want to think about what that notion could possibly imply...


Increased sales of course!! 

"The Zen of [X]" together with a photograph of some strategically placed pebbles....


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I once had a dream in which I was challenged to a "zen duel". I woke up before the duel took place and it never was explained to me what that meant.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Maybe two monks go into a meditative trance, and the first one to come out of it, or sneeze, or hiccup, is disqualified?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Ingélou said:


> Maybe two monks go into a meditative trance, and the first one to come out of it, or sneeze, or hiccup, is disqualified?


If one of the monks isn't too fond of trance, can he instead go into a meditative heavy metal?


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> I once had a dream in which I was challenged to a "zen duel". I woke up before the duel took place and it never was explained to me what that meant.


http://www.theonion.com/article/monk-gloats-over-yoga-championship-20224

I kinda get how medieval music could be called Zen...something like Perotin which is sort of rhythmically static and uses long drones to me sounds like it was meant to induce mystical experience.

Western Christianity seemed to move away from mysticism over the centuries, for the most part.

Some of Hildegard of Bingen's art, reportedly based on her visions, reminds me of mandalas or something:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Iso, loved the Onion article!


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

_"I am the serenest!" Bikram shouted to the estimated crowd of 20,000 yoga fans, vigorously pumping his fists. _

_"I just wasn't myself today," Gupta commented. "I wasn't any self today. I was an egoless particle of the universal no-soul."_


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> I once had a dream in which I was challenged to a "zen duel". I woke up before the duel took place and it never was explained to me what that meant.


It meant you'd eaten too much cheese before you went to bed.


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

dogen said:


> Increased sales of course!!
> 
> "The Zen of [X]" together with a photograph of some strategically placed pebbles....


Touché, dogen, touché...


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Silence is the only Zen music (Maybe John Cage would knew it).


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> _"I am the serenest!" Bikram shouted to the estimated crowd of 20,000 yoga fans, vigorously pumping his fists. _
> 
> _"I just wasn't myself today," Gupta commented. "I wasn't any self today. I was an egoless particle of the universal no-soul."_


Brilliant! :tiphat:
What with this, and Dogen's pebbles, TC should have a satirists' corner. :lol:


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2015)

Heliogabo said:


> Silence is the only Zen music (Maybe John Cage would knew it).


There's a veeeeeeerrrry long thread for airing those sorts of thoughts!


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

dogen said:


> There's a veeeeeeerrrry long thread for airing those sorts of thoughts!


Oh-oooh,

And that thread can be co-opted by "certain elements" to give creedance for the use of mind-altering psychopharmaca in conjunction with questionable meditation practices...


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Ingélou said:


> Maybe two monks go into a meditative trance, and the first one to come out of it, or sneeze, or hiccup, is disqualified?





Dim7 said:


> If one of the monks isn't too fond of trance, can he instead go into a meditative heavy metal?


Did I fail in my attempt to turn this thread into AaQwaQ?


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2015)

You did, but on the plus side you set a new personal best for appalling punnery.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

dogen said:


> You did, but on the plus side you set a new personal best for appalling punnery.


Jealous, huh???


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2015)

This one is pretty zen. That droning heterophony does it every time.


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

Zen is nothing. Music has nothing to do with it.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

What if Buddhist chant is very medieval?


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