# Famous myths in classical music?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

My father said Wagner hated Beethoven, i heard this mythos before i dont know if it's true this is just an exemple per se there most be zillion, i think i have an interresting post here?

:tiphat:


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I think your father was mistaken. The mythe is actually Beethoven said Wagner hated your father.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Wagner's Symphony is in pure Beethovenian style. He certainly wanted to advance music over what Beethoven did, but I think he had plenty of admiration for him.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

One myth is the story that Tchaikovsky was forced to drink cholera-infected water because of being caught in a gay relationship. I think that has been discredited, but it keeps popping up.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> One myth is the story that Tchaikovsky was forced to drink cholera-infected water because of being caught in a gay relationship. I think that has been discredited, but it keeps popping up.


Speaking of composers being poisoned, there's the myth that Salieri killed Mozart (although I suppose there's a _slight _chance that it's true...)


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Bettina said:


> Speaking of composers being poisoned, there's the myth that Salieri killed Mozart (although I suppose there's a _slight _chance that it's true...)


I blame Amadeus for this myth.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

There is the myth that one composer wrote over 100 symphonies! Can you imagine? 100+ of them?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Musicologists now agree that Mozart faked his death in order to frame Salieri. He himself went to Paris under an assumed name to make peculiarly smelly cheese. Some of his cheeses are still sold today. I mean cheese made to his specification, not cheese he actually made himself. Did I really need to say that? Probably not...

Anyway, just look for the Mozart cheese tagline: "Smells like people's feet."


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I blame Amadeus for this myth.


When in doubt, blame syphilis.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> There is the myth that one composer wrote over 100 symphonies! Can you imagine? 100+ of them?


Mr Haydn turn in his grave now.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

There are persistent rumors that a well-known Finnish conductor/composer has written more the 300 symphonies. Please give these rumors no credence, as that is clearly impossible.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

KenOC said:


> There are persistent rumors that a well-known Finnish conductor/composer has written more the 300 symphonies. Please give these rumors no credence, as that is clearly impossible.


309 symphonies and not a single one of them is worth listening to.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Francis Poulenc said:


> 309 symphonies and not a single one of them is worth listening to.


That's not very Swede of you!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Francis Poulenc said:


> 309 symphonies and not a single one of them is worth listening to.


Give the poor guy a chance! Maybe he'll turn over a new Leif in his next symphony.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Give the poor guy a chance! Maybe he'll turn over a new Leif in his next symphony.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I am reminded of a Mad Magazine spoof of Ripley's Believe It or Not, that gravely reported the case of a Danish sea captain who could speak 327 languages, none of which could be identified. Enigmatic people, these Scandinavians.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

hpowders said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


Mistake. Post deleted.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Give the poor guy a chance! Maybe he'll turn over a new Leif in his next symphony.


Yeah. There's always No. 310. One mustn't lose hope.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

KenOC said:


> There are persistent rumors that a well-known Finnish conductor/composer has written more the 300 symphonies. Please give these rumors no credence, as that is clearly impossible.


Presumably either very short or for small groups of players.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2016)

Francis Poulenc said:


> 309 symphonies and not a single one of them is worth listening to.


So... you probably haven't listened to many of them then?


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Bettina said:


> Speaking of composers being poisoned, there's the myth that Salieri killed Mozart (although I suppose there's a _slight _chance that it's true...)


the truth is that Salieri was a lot more respected in his day than the movie would have you think. I believe he gave Beethoven counterpoint lessons in the 1790s in Vienna.

the truth is more that Mozart and Salieri knew each other, but they weren't rivals at all.


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## Zefiro Torna (Nov 17, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Mr Haydn turn in his grave now.


As long as he stays there and doesn't compose _another_ one, fine by me.

I really <3 Haydn, peace out


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

there is a story that I heard Julian Bream tell once that Andres Segovia had said that a Villa-Lobos piece was unplayable, and then Heitor Villa-Lobos sat down and played the piece to the delight of everyone at the social gathering in question. Later that night Segovia allegedly was pounding on his door begging for the score so he could play it.

Julian Bream told this story as a preface to the piece he played at a recital I saw in Dallas years ago and he said at the time he didn't know if it was true...."but it sure does make for a good story"


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

If Wagner hated Beethoven, why did they begin the 1951 reopening of the Bayreuth festival with a special performance of the Beethoven 9th conducted by Wilhelm Furtwangler ? Go figure .


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> That's not very Swede of you!


Are you Finished?


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

There are recent myths about Handel's sexuality. But since he was very private in his domestic life, they're all just speculation.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

deprofundis said:


> My father said Wagner hated Beethoven, i heard this mythos before i dont know if it's true this is just an exemple per se there most be zillion, i think i have an interresting post here?
> 
> :tiphat:


The exact contrary is true. Beethoven - especially the 9th symphony - was Wagner's greatest musical inspiration. He wrote an essay titled "Beethoven," praised him constantly, and conducted the 9th to inaugurate the Bayreuth Festival (which is why Furtwangler reopened the festival with the 9th after WW II).


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Wagner called Beethoven's seventh symphony "the apotheosis of the dance"; something of a sign of approbation.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Wagner wrote a story about the 5th rescuing a concert he was conducting in Dresden from a gloom which only seemed to grow to that point. I can't find it on line, but it's quoted in Sir George Grove's book on Beethoven's symphonies written at the end of the 19th century (in print, from Dover).

There is little doubt that Wagner's opinion of Beethoven could scarcely have been higher.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Musicologists now agree that Mozart faked his death in order to frame Salieri. He himself went to Paris under an assumed name to make peculiarly smelly cheese. Some of his cheeses are still sold today. I mean cheese made to his specification, not cheese he actually made himself. Did I really need to say that? Probably not...
> 
> Anyway, just look for the Mozart cheese tagline: "Smells like people's feet."


Mozart's cheeses were specially formulated to cause massive flatulence; all part of his love for scatological humor.

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the myth (?) of Beethoven's kiss.

Reportedly, Beethoven was prevailed upon to listen to the young Liszt (the latter was ten or so at the time). Beethoven hated child prodigies but relented, and was so impressed that he kissed Liszt's forehead after the performance and said "This kid will make a big splash yet" (or something to the effect).

Years later, Liszt transferred that kiss to the forehead of some other young prodigy, who eventually did the same. Etc. Etc. I don't know who the current holder of Beethoven's kiss is. Or whether it really has been transferred all the way to the modern era. These days, you kiss a kid who isn't your own child, you go to prison.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The myth that Mozart was really a girl. You know how it was back then. Even Fannie Mendelssohn was held back from being a professional composer because of her sex. So Mozart dressed up like a boy and became a professional composer.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

The movie "Amadeus" is more friction than facts. I call it a 'variation' of the actual history. However, it shaped our believe towards Mozart and Salieri. The whole movie is not about the death of Mozart, it is about the struggle of Salieri between admiring someone but envy their success at the same time. We may not know if this is the truth or not.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I blame Amadeus for this myth.


Pushkin's play Mozart and Salieri popularized the myth 150 years before Amadeus. The screen play rips off the crucial bits from Pushkin.

While we are on Mozart myths there are the ones that he composed everything in his head (he seemed to have needed a piano), that he didn't need to sketch his works (he sketched extensively), that he played something from memory he heard once (witness accounts say he remembered the theme and improvised the rest), and that his composing the overture to one of his operas at the last minute was a great feat (this was standard practice in that era).



pcnog11 said:


> The movie "Amadeus" is more friction than facts. I call it a 'variation' of the actual history. However, it shaped our believe towards Mozart and Salieri. The whole movie is not about the death of Mozart, it is about *the struggle of Salieri between admiring someone but envy their success at the same time. We may not know if this is the truth or not.*


Not only do we know this is silly, we know Pushkin made it up. That speech about his jealousy of Mozart is the opening monologue of Pushkin's play.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Good insights, do you think Mozart is less famous if not for "Amadeus"? I think the popular culture made him more famous. I like Mozart not because of the movie, but from his music.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> Good insights, do you think Mozart is less famous if not for "Amadeus"? I think the popular culture made him more famous. I like Mozart not because of the movie, but from his music.


My view is that any publicity (about a composer) is good publicity. _Amadeus, Lisztomania_, whatever films, miniseries, plays--bring them on! To the extent that they direct traffic into the shop Classical Music, it's all good, even if it's bad.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> Good insights, do you think Mozart is less famous if not for "Amadeus"? I think the popular culture made him more famous. I like Mozart not because of the movie, but from his music.


No doubt made him better known in popular culture. Not sure whether or how much that translates to true, lifelong enthusiasts.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Florestan said:


> The myth that Mozart was really a girl. You know how it was back then. Even Fannie Mendelssohn was held back from being a professional composer because of her sex. So Mozart dressed up like a boy and became a professional composer.


I have also heard it claimed that both Mozart and Beethoven were actually black (or at least mixed race).



EdwardBast said:


> While we are on Mozart myths there are the ones that he composed everything in his head (he seemed to have needed a piano), that he didn't need to sketch his works (he sketched extensively), that he played something from memory he heard once (witness accounts say he remembered the theme and improvised the rest),


What then of the story that he wrote out Allegri's Miserere from memory, after hearing it once or twice?



> and that his composing the overture to one of his operas at the last minute was a great feat (this was standard practice in that era).


The version I heard is that he not only composed the overture the day before the premiere, but that he wrote out the individual parts straight from his head without a master score.

I'm sure at least some of these stories are hugely exaggerated, and that many of the more or less true ones are not all that exceptional. To the muggles (that is, people who like music but don't know much about it) such things as fluently composing a string quartet in an afternoon, or Beethoven composing after going deaf, seem almost supernatural, and they seem not to realize that nowadays, just about any solidly trained musician could do the same.

People have a strange love-hate relationship with genius. On the one hand, they love programs that offer a shortcut to riches or success that float all over the internet ("Learn to play piano by ear in five minutes! Results guaranteed!") which seem to imply that it's all just a matter of the right kind of training and that therefore, talent is overrated. On the other hand, they also love mythical stories of transcendent, staggering feats of genius that no mere mortal could hope to ever replicate.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> ...or Beethoven composing after going deaf, seem almost supernatural, and they seem not to realize that nowadays, just about any solidly trained musician could do the same.


Smetana wrote his most famous works after becoming deaf, probably deafer than Beethoven ever was.

Yes, it does seem impossible...but evidently it isn't.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Smetana wrote his most famous works after becoming deaf, probably deafer than Beethoven ever was.
> 
> Yes, it does seem impossible...but evidently it isn't.


Rather amusingly, over the years, I have had lots of people ask me whether Beethoven was deaf from birth. The fact that they ask such a question at all tells me they have not really thought about this issue of deafness and ability to compose, and like to think of it as some sort of mystical thing.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

How about the story that Liszt played right through Greig's Piano Concerto, sight-reading the score without even skimming through it first? Do we believe that one?


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> One myth is the story that Tchaikovsky was forced to drink cholera-infected water because of being caught in a gay relationship. I think that has been discredited, but it keeps popping up.


I watched a biopic that said he may have committed suicide by cholera. The evidence speculative but somewhat convincing. I have not heard that the theory was discredited.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Pat Fairlea said:


> How about the story that Liszt played right through Greig's Piano Concerto, sight-reading the score without even skimming through it first? Do we believe that one?


I don't know what to make of that story. Could anyone, even a virtuoso like Liszt, really accomplish that feat?

According to some versions of the story, Liszt was actually talking while sight-reading the Grieg concerto, commenting on various features of the music. That seems even harder to believe.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I don't know what to make of that story. Could anyone, even a virtuoso like Liszt, really accomplish that feat?
> 
> According to some versions of the story, Liszt was actually talking while sight-reading the Grieg concerto, commenting on various features of the music. That seems even harder to believe.


An impressive multi-tasker, our man Liszt!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Pat Fairlea said:


> How about the story that Liszt played right through Greig's Piano Concerto, sight-reading the score without even skimming through it first? Do we believe that one?


He is also said to have sight-read through some of Brahms' early sonatas when the latter visited him, and those sound to me pretty dense and tricky. And then Brahms went and fell asleep during this feat.

Another story I heard somewhere, and I have this feeling it was right here on this board: Debussy once played duet with Stravinsky, sight reading his way through Rite of Spring, not having seen it before. And I seem to remember that Enescu (at least I think it was him) not only sight-read through a Ravel violin sonata, but also memorized it at the same time.

I don't know what to make of such tales. Humans are natural story tellers, and we all tend to exaggerate our stories. Above, I mention a few, adding the caveat that I can't quite remember, and the source might not have been reliable, etc. etc. But before you know it, someone repeats them as fact, and next thing you hear that Liszt sight-read through Brahms' second piano concerto, in time, with the orchestra, while composing Totentanz and whistling 'God save the queen.'


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Well there is Bernstein's myth that Mahler's 9th is a requiem for Mahler's own death. But I guess a but of romanticism can be nice to spice us the sentimental value of a work, right? :lol:


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

brianvds said:


> What then of the story that he wrote out Allegri's Miserere from memory, after hearing it once or twice?


BS. That is the answer to this and your other questions. The important question is why people crave miraculous tales as proof of genius when they have the music, which for anyone should be proof enough.



Jerome said:


> I watched a biopic that said he may have committed suicide by cholera. The evidence speculative but somewhat convincing. I have not heard that the theory was discredited.


There is no evidence. This comes up so often I finally blogged the response. But to save you the work, I'll just recopy it here:

The earliest identified written source of the Tchaikovsky suicide rumor is in the as yet unpublished memoirs of one R.A. Mooser, a Swiss writer on music who arrived in St. Petersburg in 1896, well after the composer's death. He was never accepted in the musical circles of the city and Alexander Poznansky, Tchaikovsky's biographer, suggests that this outsider status motivated him to pose as someone with juicy inside knowledge. He claims to have first heard the rumor from an unidentified critic at the St. Petersburg Zeitung. Later he claims to have heard it again from Riccardo Drigo, the ballet conductor at the Mariinsky Theater, and Alexander Glazunov. Since neither of these people could possibly have had any first hand knowledge of the alleged suicide, Mooser's report - even if his highly unlikely claims about Drigo and Glazunov are true - is at best third hand gossip written by a nonentity. Please let this ridiculous story DIE!


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> There is the myth that one composer wrote over 100 symphonies! Can you imagine? 100+ of them?


The myth is that one composer wrote over 100 symphonies worth listening to.

Another myth is that Vivaldi wrote the same concerto 300 times (it was actually 256 times


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> BS. That is the answer to this and your other questions. The important question is why people crave miraculous tales as proof of genius when they have the music, which for anyone should be proof enough.


It is a story nevertheless to be found even in standard biographies, so I'd be curious to know where it came from. Perhaps you have an idea?


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## keymasher (Nov 10, 2016)

Oh my God, this thread got me to listen to part of Segerstram's Symphony 288... I hate all of you.

Another prominent source of myths would be the necessity to assign nicknames to pieces. Two that come to mind immediately are Chopin's "Revolutionary" etude, and Beethoven's "Tempest" sonata. The first of which, of course, supposedly inspired by Poland's failed uprising against Russia, and the second coming from Beethoven's biographer, Anton Schindler, who reported that the sonata was inspired by the Shakespeare play. I've heard mixed opinions on whether the Chopin rightfully earned it's nickname, whereas it seems the Beethoven example is more widely accepted as BS.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

keymasher said:


> Oh my God, this thread got me to listen to part of Segerstram's Symphony 288... I hate all of you.


I'm reading this in Starbucks, and I just burst out laughing. Now everyone is looking at me askance.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

keymasher said:


> Oh my God, this thread got me to listen to part of Segerstram's Symphony 288... I hate all of you.
> 
> Another prominent source of myths would be the necessity to assign nicknames to pieces. Two that come to mind immediately are Chopin's "Revolutionary" etude, and Beethoven's "Tempest" sonata. The first of which, of course, supposedly inspired by Poland's failed uprising against Russia, and the second coming from Beethoven's biographer, Anton Schindler, who reported that the sonata was inspired by the Shakespeare play. I've heard mixed opinions on whether the Chopin rightfully earned it's nickname, whereas it seems the Beethoven example is more widely accepted as BS.


Yeah, those nicknames can be misleading. "Moonlight" sonata and "Raindrop" prelude are other examples of this. Many people probably assume that those names came from the composers themselves.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Yeah, those nicknames can be misleading. "Moonlight" sonata and "Raindrop" prelude are other examples of this. Many people probably assume that those names came from the composers themselves.


Beethoven surely would never have called it "Moonlight". He was really annoyed by its popularity, given that he believed, absolutely correctly, that he wrote many better sonatas that were being ignored. The fate of "nameless" compositions.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

A commonly held belief is that Mendelssohn led a perfect life.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Beethoven surely would never have called it "Moonlight". He was really annoyed by its popularity, given that he believed, absolutely correctly, that he wrote many better sonatas that were being ignored. The fate of "nameless" compositions.


Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" was a monster hit. The 1802 AMZ review was ecstatic: "This fantasy is a solid whole from beginning to end, arising at once out of an entire, profound, and deeply moved spirit and then virtually formed from a single piece of marble. Anyone to whom nature has granted an inner feeling for music must be moved and gradually uplifted by the initial Adagio, which the author has very aptly accompanied with the description 'Si deve suonare tutto questo pezzo delicatissimamente e senza sordino', and then moved profoundly by the Presto agitato, lifted up as high as one can be by piano music."

It had no nickname, though, until well after Beethoven's death.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> BS. That is the answer to this and your other questions.


From Wiki: "According to the popular story (backed up by family letters), the fourteen-year-old Mozart was visiting Rome when he first heard the piece during the Wednesday service. Later that day, he wrote it down entirely from memory, returning to the Chapel that Friday to make minor corrections. Less than three months after hearing the song and transcribing it, Mozart had gained fame for the work and was summoned to Rome by Pope Clement XIV, only instead of excommunicating the boy, the Pope showered praise on him for his feat of musical genius and awarded him the Chivalric Order of the Golden Spur. Some time during his travels, he met the British historian Charles Burney, who obtained the piece from him and took it to London, where it was published in 1771."

Is there a reason to doubt this story?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" was a monster hit. ...
> It had no nickname, though, until well after Beethoven's death.


And I'm sure that had Beethoven known that in the longer run, only the first movement would be played by anyone other than professionals, he'd have made it as difficult to play as the third. 



KenOC said:


> From Wiki: "According to the popular story (backed up by family letters), the fourteen-year-old Mozart was visiting Rome when he first heard the piece during the Wednesday service. Later that day, he wrote it down entirely from memory, returning to the Chapel that Friday to make minor corrections. Less than three months after hearing the song and transcribing it, Mozart had gained fame for the work and was summoned to Rome by Pope Clement XIV, only instead of excommunicating the boy, the Pope showered praise on him for his feat of musical genius and awarded him the Chivalric Order of the Golden Spur. Some time during his travels, he met the British historian Charles Burney, who obtained the piece from him and took it to London, where it was published in 1771."
> 
> Is there a reason to doubt this story?


I am hoping that EdwardBast will tell us; the story seems well enough documented to be accepted. But perhaps he knows something we don't...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> A commonly held belief is that Mendelssohn led a perfect life.


Except for dying too young.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

A shame we can't delete messages posted in error.


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## keymasher (Nov 10, 2016)

Bettina said:


> Yeah, those nicknames can be misleading. "Moonlight" sonata and "Raindrop" prelude are other examples of this. Many people probably assume that those names came from the composers themselves.


Sorry to engage in a bit of thread drift, but nicknames like the ones you mentioned I find extremely frustrating. The one that probably bugs me the most is for Beethoven's op 129, Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio, or "Rage Over a Lost Penny." While nicknames are generally innocuous enough, I can't help but feel that this one fundamentally changed how the piece was later interpreted. Either that, or Evgeny Kissin's playing of it. Regardless, listening to older recordings, you generally get a charming piece full of wit and character. Later, playing it at blistering speed and beating the hell out of the piano seemed to be the prevailing approach; and it sounds nothing like the Beethoven piano works I'm familiar with.

Thanks for indulging my soapbox moment.


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## keymasher (Nov 10, 2016)

Reading up on Rage Over a Lost Penny on wiki. Looks like Anton Schindler struck again. Screw that guy.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

brianvds said:


> I am hoping that EdwardBast will tell us; the story seems well enough documented to be accepted. But perhaps he knows something we don't...


Yes, there is every reason to doubt this story. From the BBC Classical Music Blog:

"Remembering and transcribing the layout of this formulaic piece was within his powers, but no Mozart manuscript of the Miserere is known. The only references are his dad's vague letter at the time, and his sister's recollections 20 years later."

Documented well enough would mean an extant manuscript. There isn't one. Letters by his father, whose business was promoting his prodigy son, are not a credible source. Nor are recollections from a 20 year remove. There is no credible source for the story. There is no concrete proof of it.

Now if Mozart were sitting in church with manuscript paper and a writing utensil, he would likely have been able to transcribe it fairly accurately on the spot. That is no big deal. It's a simple piece. My ex and several other acquaintances of mine could do that! The claim that he transcribed it from memory is another thing altogether. That requires credible evidence.

Edit: I did more research, finding further cause for doubt. The score to the Miserere was kept under lock and key at the time of the Mozarts' visit to Rome. So, if Wolfgang did transcribe it (in part?, as a whole?), the only way the witness, Leopold, could have known it was correct or complete is if he too had a perfect memory of the work, and if he checked over the transcription note for note and was able to verify its accuracy against his perfect memory. The absurdity of this should be readily apparent.


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> There are persistent rumors that a well-known Finnish conductor/composer has written more the 300 symphonies. Please give these rumors no credence, as that is clearly impossible.


A violist who had played for Segerstam once told me that in one of the symphonies he had played the composer had written a group of notes in a box with the instruction: play around in your little box until you reach a climax.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

keymasher said:


> Reading up on Rage Over a Lost Penny on wiki. Looks like Anton Schindler struck again. Screw that guy.


We need to start a sticky thread titled "Schindler's List," in which we list all the idiotic myths he started or promoted.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> Yes, there is every reason to doubt this story. From the BBC Classical Music Blog:...


Thanks for the info. Looks like one of those 'maybe, maybe not' things that shouldn't be bandied about as a hard fact. As far as I know, Mozart did have a very good musical memory, and seeing as such feats of musical memory have been well documented in others, it seems not impossible that he may have done it. Your argument that even of he did, his father couldn't possibly have known whether his transcription was correct is a good point!

I never thought of the piece as formulaic. I suppose it is, but I still find it very beautiful.

On the whole, I am becoming increasingly skeptical of everything, including stories detailing the superhuman feats of musical geniuses; it seems to me that even if Mozart had to painstakingly work out his chord progressions on the piano, his music would still be great. We needn't invent any myths for his music to echo down the ages.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Next musical myth, and once again I cannot remember the source:
Beethoven had to perform a piano concerto with some or other orchestra, and just before they began, it turned out the piano was tuned a tone or semitone to high or low. Instead of refusing to play, Beethoven simply transposed the whole thing on the fly.

I don't know whether this is necessarily a particularly great feat to begin with (could a good modern pianist do it?), and I have no idea of whether there is any truth to it.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Retrograde Inversion said:


> A violist who had played for Segerstam once told me that in one of the symphonies he had played the composer had written a group of notes in a box with the instruction: play around in your little box until you reach a climax.


I don't play the viola, but I think I would do a pretty good job playing that piece...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I don't play the viola, but I think I would do a pretty good job playing that piece...


I just love your dim-innuendo.


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