# Do you prefer pieces in Flats or Sharps?



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Probably more directed at people who play instruments, but do you prefer pieces in flats or sharps?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I prefer the flat keys sharp and the sharp keys flat. As for regular keys, I prefer when they fit my Jeep or my cabin. Much beyond that I don't have use for keys, being a guitar player.

I do have a keychain, though:


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Couchie said:


> Probably more directed at people who play instruments, but do you prefer pieces in flats or sharps?


Isn't C sharp the same as B flat?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Forster said:


> Isn't C sharp the same as B flat?


Not quite, they're a minor third apart. On a piano A sharp is the same as B flat. And C sharp is the same as D flat.


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## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

The word "sharp" is cooler than "flat", so people like sharp better. Understandable.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> Not quite, they're a minor third apart. On a piano A sharp is the same as B flat. And C sharp is the same as D flat.


D'oh! I got them the wrong way round. I meant B sharp and C flat.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Couchie said:


> Probably more directed at people who play instruments, but do you prefer pieces in flats or sharps?


It depends on the instrument. But it is the mark of good musicians to be able to play evenly across all keys.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Forster said:


> D'oh! I got them the wrong way round. I meant B sharp and C flat.


Still wrong. B sharp would be C, and C flat would be B. So they're a half tone apart.

You're doing this on purpose, right?


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

amfortas said:


> Still wrong. B sharp would be C, and C flat would be B. So they're a half tone apart.
> 
> You're doing this on purpose, right?


No, really I'm not. I'm not a musician and am not looking at a keyboard which would help me make the point I want to make, which is that I can't see how one can 'prefer' sharps or flats when they're so closely interrelated - even being the same note (if only I could get the right pair...C sharp and D flat perhaps?)

NB The poll may say "keys in flats or sharps" but the title of the thread says "pieces in flats or sharps".


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## Musicaterina (Apr 5, 2020)

For playing the tenor viol, I prefer six specific keys: F, G and C major and the parallel minor keys. For playing the recorder, it all depends: The alto recorder in G is better for sharp keys, the alto recorder in F (the "normal" alto recorder) is better for flat keys.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

When I play piano I prefer sharp keys - for some reason it's easier. When I play bassoon it doesn't matter - any key is fine. But those double sharps and double flats!!!! When I play snare drum, cymbals or bass drum I don't care.

I can tell you that string players by far prefer sharp keys. Years ago in a college orchestration class the professor demonstrated this clearly: he had arranged a Bach piece for strings twice: in D flat and C sharp. The players struggled big time with the D flat version, but played the C sharp version remarkably better. Then going back to the D flat it was miserable again. Strings just don't like flats. In the Chicago Symphony recording of Franz Schmidt's 2nd symphony when even that great orchestra hits the part in G flat you can hear them suddenly struggle with intonation.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

In sightreading, I prefer sharps, mainly because most transpositions for alto sax end up in sharp keys, so that's what I'm used to. But when I'm playing without music, I'll think of the key that's easiest to remember. Like Eb is easier for me than thinking in D#, and Bb is easier than A#.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Don't b sharp.
Don't b flat.
Just b natural.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

What if you wear flats with pointy toes?


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

The key of F I find most difficult to play on the keyboard. There's that one lone Bb, typically played by the thumb. The key of Bb is a little easier with the addition of the Eb. From there, I don't find much difference in playing any other key.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Forster said:


> No, really I'm not. I'm not a musician and am not looking at a keyboard which would help me make the point I want to make, which is that I can't see how one can 'prefer' sharps or flats when they're so closely interrelated - even being the same note (if only I could get the right pair...C sharp and D flat perhaps?)


C sharp and D flat indeed.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Couchie said:


> Probably more directed at people who play instruments, but do you prefer pieces in flats or sharps?


Playing keyboard instruments I find flat keys "easier" to play than sharp keys.

When listening there is no real difference between flat and sharp keys, provided we are talking about a=440 and equal tuning. If we are talking about modified meantone tuning (eg Werkmeister's tunings) and different pitches of a, it makes no sense to prefer anything because there is no well defined standard.


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## Gothos (Jan 11, 2018)

C sharp or B flat was the advice you gave to people when walking on icy sidewalks here in Canada!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

premont said:


> Playing keyboard instruments I find flat keys "easier" to play than sharp keys.


Interesting. The pianist/song leader in my church loved flat keys, especially Db. I never understood that, but I guess chords in the flat keys are more natural for the shape of the hand. Didn't Chopin start his beginners in Db or something?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think there are slightly more famous pieces in flat keys from the classical and romantic period. (Of course there are also a lot in C major not counting for either). There seem to be far more famous pieces in d minor, g minor, c minor, f minor than in e, b or f# etc.
(Probably because going to the major loses flats but gains sharps in minor mode pieces or because the favored triumphant major keys are C and D). 
There might be lots in D major but F, Bb, Eb together make easily up for this as there are not that many in A and E major, despite violin concertos having D and A as favored keys. Even if it's even for the major pieces, there certainly is not such a majority for sharps to make up the advantage of
Take the concertos and symphonies of Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky

Beethoven: symphonies 2 sharp, 6 flat, 1 C; concertos 2 sharp, 3 flat, 2 C
Brahms: almost even 2-2 symphonies 2-1-1a minor concertos
Bruckner: 2 sharp - 7 flat
Tchaikovsky: symphonies 2 sharp 4 flat, concertos 2 sharp, 2 flat (if one counts the Eb major 3rd piano concerto)


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> I think there are slightly more famous pieces in flat keys from the classical and romantic period. (Of course there are also a lot in C major not counting for either). *There seem to be far more famous pieces in d minor, g minor, c minor, f minor than in e, b or f# etc.*


If this is true, it's likely because the open strings on cellos and violas include C, G, and D, which conveniently ground the keys of C minor, G minor, and D minor. Add to that the wind instruments commonly pitched on the flat side (clarinets in Bb and Eb, trumpets in Bb and F (popular in the 19thc), and horns in F, and we have the basis for a bias toward flat minor keys.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

One might of course ask why the wind instruments were usually pitched in Bb when the brass had often been in D or C in the baroque.

For Bach's keyboard suites and Haydn string quartets it seems almost even, no clear imbalance, despite Haydn favoring minor keys on the flat side.
But Beethoven piano sonatas are 13:17 flat, string quartets 5:9 flat.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

It is a meaningless question for professional performers....to master an instrument, it is imperative to master all keys, all intervals, scales, arpeggios, note groupings...
of course it is easier to play woodwinds in F major, G major than it is to play in Cb major or f# minor.....but it doesn't matter...whatever is on the page, you play it, and hopefully, make it sound easy, effortless....what's on the page gets played.

It's funny - a piece like the Weber Bassoon Concerto is in F major - it sounds really amazing - fast notes galore up and down, tons pf notes....but relatively easy key to play...but sounds most impressive...
Now, the Paris Conservatory Concours [contest] Pieces??....that's a different story....they don't feature the easy scales and arpeggios...they contain all sorts of different, unusual scales and note groupings, modal scales, extreme range, some of which can be quite devilish to play...
the Weber "sounds" more difficult, but the French pieces are much more challenging.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Kreisler jr said:


> One might of course ask why the wind instruments were usually pitched in Bb when the brass had often been in D or C in the baroque.


B flat wind instruments as a standard is relatively recent. Trumpet players frequently encounter parts for Trumpet in D, C, A, E and F. Horn parts in every key - the invention of the rotary valve really helped them. Clarinet parts are in A, B flat, and C. I used to have trombone built in G. D flat piccolos were common up until the '60s. Saxophones are pretty evenly divided between being built in E flat and B flat. Interestingly, many composers wrote bass clarinet parts in A, but there never was a bass clarinet built in that key. Tubas come in different varieties too: B flat, E flat, C and probably others. Only in the band world is there anything close to standardization of winds. It's a minefield in the orchestral arena.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I hadn't really thought about it, but on reflection it does seem to me that flat keys are a little easier to play on keyboard. I wonder why?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Its easier to see flats as they are placed on the staff, and the first four flats spell BEAD which is easy to remember.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Manxfeeder said:


> Didn't Chopin start his beginners in Db or something?


B major, actually. And A flat major is the most frequently used key in his works.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

tdc said:


> I hadn't really thought about it, but on reflection it does seem to me that flat keys are a little easier to play on keyboard. I wonder why?


I think it depends on the individual pianist and the physical shape/dexterity of the hands. My fingers seem much happier in sharp keys. A lot of people are terrified of B major (5 sharps) but it fits my hands much better than B flat or C - a semitone either way. I find F uncomfortable, but F sharp major (6 sharps) is easy. Others will no doubt have other opinions.


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## hawgdriver (Nov 11, 2011)

As a musician, I prefer a flat to a sharp. As a listener, it's all pretty arbitrary except for the A=440hz convention. I tend to like works in Bb thru C#/Db, but barely more than others.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

The problem with general statistics is that all the minor works are included, e.g. those for beginners in easier keys or barytone trios. There are only two major works in a minor (double concerto and clarinet trio) by Brahms and two not even really major in G major by Tchaikovsky (2nd piano concerto and Grand sonate), so I am not sure mere counting reflects key preferences.

But I think it reflects correctly that Viennese classicism before Beethoven focussed more on a narrow range of main keys whereas in the later 19th century the distribution is more even and Beethoven and Bach (and probably also other baroque) are in between.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

When I got my first paying job (traditional jazz) I found most of the numbers were in flat keys so naturally I found these the easiest, also playing in trio, quartets and quintets (ad lib) the flat keys dominated but in all of these Ens key changes within a number were common. I suppose the leader chose which key.
From memory in Dance Band where music scores were used the sharp and flat keys were divided. 
In classical anything goes so you need to be prepared.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I’m not a violinist, but aren’t most violin-centered works in sharp keys?

As a former amateur clarinetist, I had my B Flat clarinet and my A clarinet, so I was cool with either.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have no idea what keys any of the music I listen to is in, even if it is in the title I don't pay much attention. Now if someone said one of these options was predominantly associated with modern music, vs the other with classical era, then I would know how to vote.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Two of my top ten symphonies are in D Minor (Beethoven 9, Sibelius 6). But then, Mahler 6 and Sibelius 4 are in A Minor. Oh, and Shostakovich 11 and Roussel 3 are in G Minor...I could go on...

On the other hand, there's not many in C Major that are in my top 20...

Does any of this mean anything?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I don't live in a flat so I'm staying outta this one. :cheers:


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Merl said:


> I don't live in a flat so I'm staying outta this one. :cheers:


ha..very sharp Merl.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Merl said:


> I don't live in a flat so I'm staying outta this one. :cheers:


Nor then do you live in *a sharp house*.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

jegreenwood said:


> I'm not a violinist, but aren't most violin-centered works in sharp keys?


Most violin concerti were/are written in the key of D Major specifically, with D minor a close second.



jegreenwood said:


> As a former amateur clarinetist, I had my B Flat clarinet and my A clarinet, so I was cool with either.


I'd imagine the Eb clarinet, commonly used in New Orleans style jazz would be more challenging.



Merl said:


> I don't live in a flat so I'm staying outta this one. :cheers:


I do have keys to my own flat.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

progmatist said:


> I'd imagine the Eb clarinet, commonly used in New Orleans style jazz would be more challenging.


Eb clarinet is a tough axe to play....intonation is tricky, and the range is often extreme. Eb Clarinet is the Till Eulenspiegel character in Strauss' wonderful tone poem.


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## skim1124 (Mar 6, 2019)

For me, it's always been much much easier to sight-read piano pieces with flats. Don't know why though.


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## Doublestring (Sep 3, 2014)

Weird result. I voted sharps, because as a guitar player I find them easier to play. You can use more free strings. Even E Major, with four sharps, still has the free strings E, A and B - tonic, subdominant and dominant. I would expect violin players to think the same. For piano players it doesn't make any difference.


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

Interestingly the greatest popular song writer of the last century, Irving Berlin, could only play the piano in one key - F sharp!


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## Symphonic (Apr 27, 2015)

Good question.

I think naturally, the hands are inclined to move up the piano (to the right handside) in motion. 
We read from left to right.

Therefore, that could be one way of deeming sharp keys a little easier - when doing things like sight-reading. (Because the sharp note would mean moving your fingers up towards the right).


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Symphonic said:


> Good question.
> 
> I think naturally, the hands are inclined to move up the piano (to the right handside) in motion.
> We read from left to right.
> ...


Not if your playing a scale downwards or a piece with descending motion...


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## Symphonic (Apr 27, 2015)

If someone said play a scale, 9/10 times you'd play it upwards

So a scale (upwards) is the default. But a scale downwards is the marked, divergent version :tiphat:


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Symphonic said:


> If someone said play a scale, 9/10 times you'd play it upwards
> 
> So a scale (upwards) is the default. But a scale downwards is the marked, divergent version :tiphat:


sorry symphonic, but when I practice scales they are 50% up and 50% down, but yes if I was asked to play one, I'd go left to right. Remember though that actual music goes up and down, which unfortunately doesn't help your theory about sharp keys being easier for sight reading. But I'm probably being a pedantic pain in the *** here and you might feel as though I'm on your back, which is not my intention so I'll shut up now....


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Doublestring said:


> Weird result. I voted sharps, because as a guitar player I find them easier to play. You can use more free strings. Even E Major, with four sharps, still has the free strings E, A and B - tonic, subdominant and dominant. I would expect violin players to think the same. For piano players it doesn't make any difference.


My guitar playing experience is a little different. I rarely play open strings, so all I have to do to play in any key is shift scale patterns up and down the fretboard. For me, there are no difficult keys to play on the guitar.

EDIT: reading for guitar is a different story. On the keyboard, one dot on a stave, perhaps modified by a sharp or flat refers to one key and one key only. With 24 frets, one note can appear in as many as six places on the fretboard. The keyboard is linear, whereas notes on a fret/finger board are stacked in layers. Tabulature can help enormously on stringed instruments. For all practical intents and purposes, standard notation *IS* tabulature for the keyboard.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

mikeh375 said:


> sorry symphonic, but when I practice scales they are 50% up and 50% down, but yes if I was asked to play one, I'd go left to right. Remember though that *actual music goes up and down*, which unfortunately doesn't help your theory about sharp keys being easier for sight reading. But I'm probably being a pedantic pain in the *** here and you might feel as though I'm on your back, which is not my intention so I'll shut up now....


No wonder my home performances sound so bad! I've been playing my music left and right!


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

trazom said:


> No wonder my home performances sound so bad! I've been playing my music left and right!


aaahh yes, well that might be good for you trazom. Music can also be in contrary motion...


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

trazom said:


> No wonder my home performances sound so bad! I've been playing my music left and right!


Such an easy mistake that has a long history but at last avant-garde composers are writing it right to left.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

trazom said:


> No wonder my home performances sound so bad! I've been playing my music left and right!


If you play it right, nothing is left.


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