# Fans, groupies and 'tragics'...



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

On THIS blog entry, a _*tragic*_ is described as 'someone who is intensely interested or absorbed in a topic.' & I get the sense of it being an interest that's too deep and taken too seriously (but what that means may vary).

Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard was described as a _cricket tragic _(by no less than former cricket captain Shane Warne!). Apparently Mr. Howard was thinking of becoming a cricketer when he was young, but he went into politics instead. But the dream is still there, he is a very big fan of the game still.

Hard to say what separates just a run of the mill fan or groupie of a sport, a genre of music, stamp collecting, or appreciation of other arts (or anything) and a _tragic_ of it.

Listening recently to a song by Tim Minchin called Rock n'roll nerd I thought I was becoming a classical music tragic, or musicology tragic. An aspirant or dilettante hobbyist to something I ultimately know little about. Maybe it's an obsession or irritation. I think it's partly why I've participated less here - music overload, information (mainly about music) overload, overkill, etc. Of course with music, musicians are different, it's their job (in a way they have to be _music tragics_, maybe).

My question is are you a _tragic_ of some sort, following this kind of definition?

Can also be about anything, not necessarily music.

Do you think it's kind of becoming too obsessive? Is it maybe time to move on to other things? Do you think these things go in cycles or phases? Some years onto one sort of very absorbing interest, some years off?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Perhaps the word tragic is also implying that it's an unfulfilled quest for to use their passion in the exact desired way, or that the person will be unsuccessful at using their knowledge to their own benefit in some way. Some people can indeed be obsessed with something, like music, but also be successful in their profession. A fan of music might just be happy being on the sidelines, but the true tragic may be someone who wanted to really be "in the game," but couldn't for various reasons.

I don't know whether or not to call myself a tragic in that aspect yet, because I'm still in the "emergence" process, finding my true niche. Music is certainly the general niche, but if I become a theorist, pro flutist, musicologist, or all of the above, that's yet for me to discover.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

That is such a grotesque perversion of the word _tragic _that I don't think I can comment on the topic itself. Why not use "banana" or "aposiopesis" or?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Perhaps the word tragic is also implying that it's an unfulfilled quest for to use their passion in the exact desired way, or that the person will be unsuccessful at using their knowledge to their own benefit in some way. *Some people can indeed be obsessed with something, like music, but also be successful in their profession. *A fan of music might just be happy being on the sidelines, but the true tragic may be someone who wanted to really be "in the game," but couldn't for various reasons.


Yeah, re the part I bolded, well that is why I gave the example of our former Prime Minister, John Howard. Being a _cricket tragic _didn't prevent him from being very successful in his own area of politics. & I think Mr. Howard has been involved at high level of the Australian Cricket Board or whatever, so he's kind of more than just a_ tragic _in some ways.



> ...
> I don't know whether or not to call myself a tragic in that aspect yet, because I'm still in the "emergence" process, finding my true niche. Music is certainly the general niche, but if I become a theorist, pro flutist, musicologist, or all of the above, that's yet for me to discover.


I think I would say musicians do it as their job, vocation, whatever. So it's more than just a hobby. But I suppose they can be obsessive about things, but it's not necessarily being a _tragic_ (not in non-muso's sense of the word).



Jeremy Marchant said:


> That is such a *grotesque perversion *of the word _tragic _that I don't think I can comment on the topic itself. Why not use "banana" or "aposiopesis" or?


Yeah well a lot of Aussie slang is kind of perverse, I guess.

Another way of putting it, which the song I put a link to in my opening post puts very directly, is a _wannabe_, defined in urban dictionary as this -

*wannabe* 
Someone who wants to be what they are not.
Example - _A big problem these days is white kids wanting to be ghetto_.
(one of many definitions on urban dictionary)


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

colloquially, then, I'm probably 99.999% tragic in that it is almost exclusively classical music all the time, and a lifetime of it as both pleasure and career. In my personal estimation, that is far from tragic in its real sense


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Yeah, re the part I bolded, well that is why I gave the example of our former Prime Minister, John Howard. Being a _cricket tragic _didn't prevent him from being very successful in his own area of politics. & I think Mr. Howard has been involved at high level of the Australian Cricket Board or whatever, so he's kind of more than just a_ tragic _in some ways.


Oops I was misinterpreted although I agree with you in that way too. What I meant is there are people who are as equally _obsessed _with their profession as they are successful. Those are the lucky ones.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Interestingly within the field of literature... and books in general... the person obsessed goes by the well-known term of "bibliophile"... or even "bibliomaniac". I have no shame in accepting either title. Is there a counterpart term for the individual overly in love with art or music? Well, there is the term "audiophile"... but in general this term is used to define the individual obsessed with sound quality... who invests in $3000 speakers and will argue to the death concerning the sound difference between analog and digital. I guess I the best way to describe such individuals is as "art lovers" and "music lovers" for certainly the Latin "bibliophile" means nothing more or less than "book lover".

I see nothing wrong with being passionate about the arts... to the point that I freely admit that I am an art, music, and book lover. I certainly don't see this as being tragic. The arts have long been the source of many of the greatest pleasures in my life. I certainly would rather waste my time upon art, music, and literature than upon watching grossly over-paid men play with balls. I would much rather engage in discussions about the music I love or what books I am currently reading than to engage in debates concerning the minutia of statistics concerning just how well player X can play with his balls. I would also far rather support musicians and writers and artists than support subsidies (often at the expense of tax dollars for schools... education, my God!) for bigger and bigger stadiums and arenas. 

But that's just me.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I can only think of it in a macro sense. How tragic the world is becoming with its exploding population and fewer and fewer jobs.

Only two things can alter this course. Epiphany or catastrophe.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Interestingly within the field of literature... and books in general... the person obsessed goes by the well-known term of "bibliophile"... or even "bibliomaniac". I have no shame in accepting either title. Is there a counterpart term for the individual overly in love with art or music?


Wasn't it Beethoven that said "To play without passion, that is unforgivable?"

Neologism or no, 'Musicophilia' - now the title of Dr. Oliver Sach's most interesting book, is a term. (Many of us could be so labeled, and neatly, if not "Musicomaniacs.")

The older ones from Greco-Latin roots we now accept as naming some orchestras, "Philharmonia"

Clinically, and maybe the shade of John Cage would approve, "Ichophile."


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Stluke's reference to sport & _overpaid men playing with balls_ makes me think of how a tragic or enthusiast (call it what you like) of one thing finds it hard to understand the passion of that of another.

Even in the same culture. I find the rules of cricket to be incomprehensible to me, to go back to our former PM who's a_ tragic_ of this, one of our national sports. You may as well talk to me about American gridiron, it's all basically a mystery to me. Same with non-classical lovers, or non-literature lovers or whatever, to them, the things we talk of here, or that musicians or writers talk of, it may as well be something like speaking in Klingon.

I would say that being highly enthusiastic about one thing doesn't cancel out another. The British music critic & sports journalist Neville Cardus was both a _cricket tragic_ and a _classical music tragic_. He even came Down Under to work as a presenter of classical music on our airwaves & to write on music for newspapers in the 1940's. Funnily enough, he originally came out here to report on the cricket. I have his autobiography waiting in the wings for a first read. I remember reading one of his books ages ago and got rid of it, I disagreed with him about a number of things. But I'm more open now to different opinions than in the fire of my youth (well, hopefully).



PetrB said:


> colloquially, then, I'm probably 99.999% tragic in that it is almost exclusively classical music all the time, and a lifetime of it as both pleasure and career. In my personal estimation, that is far from tragic in its real sense


You're lucky to be working in what you love. Esp. with regards to what Vaneyes says, job scarcity & competition, esp. in music industry. It's a tough field.


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