# Seeking Comment, Analysis, or Appreciation of Haydn Sym #26 Lamentation



## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Also, any recordings you happen to favor, especially without a distracting continuo.

So far, my choice of recordings is the ultra-budget Alberto Lizzio recording on Pilz. No continuo, wonderful ensemble, along with thoughtful, committed performance. My only complaint is that the first movement tempi are just too fast [but preferable to Dorati's, which are a touch too slow].

My notes:

I'm annoyed at many professional commentators who observe that the D minor has only 3 movements, ending with the minuet, implying or stating out right that Haydn actually intended to end it as it stands today.

There's just no possibility that Haydn would've ended a symphony with a minuet movement. Had he intended a compose a 3 movement form, no doubt that he would've ended with a final movement type, as was customary during the classical period. Typically, that'd have been a rondo, rondo-sonata or sonata, or even a large fugal piece.

Adding to the evidence is the fact that the original manuscript has been lost. The piece exists only in a later copy. As any child may see, obviously, with the original lost, the finale also gone.

I haven't seen H.C. Robbins Landon's extended analysis of the piece; only the condensed paragraph found in the Dorati CD box, in which he, too, seems to take the side of the know-nothing, minuet ending advocates.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's some considerations if I were doing research:

The fine Alberto Lizzio performance can be found online and I enjoyed it very much. It was my first hearing and I listened from the standpoint of its sense of finality if it ended with the Minuette. I found the Minuette rather unsubstantial as an ending and could easily imagine a 4th movement.

The problem is that it's impossible to prove a 4th mov. when Haydn's original manuscript has been lost; one can only_ speculate_ without proof. Plus, his previous Symphony No. 25 has 3 movs and his next Symphony No. 27 has 3 movs. So there are examples where he wrote a 3 mov. symphony during his early _Sturm und Drang_ period. Without a 4th mov. in No. 26, the symphony appears to be about the same length as his previous and following symphonies. These might be some of the considerations the musicologists are weighing on behalf of an intended by design, completed 3 mov. symphony.

In addition, there may have been special circumstances involved when it was composed, and there's some historical evidence that No. 26 was intended to be part of a symphony that he wrote for an Easter week celebration:

"Because of its association with Easter week, Haydn incorporates a melody derived from an old plainsong chant of the Passion of Christ, interpolating (as the second theme) this familiar liturgical setting to contrast with the furious opening theme. The same lament is also picked up in the second movement, reinforcing the symphony's link to the Passion through an evocation of a melody that would have been familiar to audiences of the time." (wiki)

If so, Haydn's rather brief, anti-climatic, docile Minuette ending might have been intended because of the Easter context the symphony was originally performed in. If I were to research the matter further, I'd look for other symphonies Haydn wrote that might be associated with Easter or Christmas, where he might have broken his usual format because of special circumstances. In any event, I would love to have heard the original 4th mov., if there was one, and maybe the original manuscript will someday show up, however unlikely that might be now.

In the meantime, I've heard other performances and most groups play the beginning Allegro way too fast! If the work was intended for an Easter celebration, it shouldn't start off like it's part of a horse race; it's marked Allegro with Spirit, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's supposed to be played at a gallup. My favorite is the 2nd mov. Chorale. Beautiful writing from Haydn! I get the feeling that he's always giving the best of himself to refresh and uplift the spirit.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

This work is just about as perfect a Symphony as Haydn ever wrote, so as far as I am concerned any idea of a missing fourth movement is pure conjecture. Making the leap from the fact the original is lost, to therefore there must have been a fourth movement lost too does seem rather fanciful.

But good luck in your search for this elusive finale. Look where the world's unicorns live.....


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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Larkenfield: Many thanks for enlarging everyone's appreciation of this Haydn gem. I found your information valuable.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Neward Thelman said:


> Larkenfield: Many thanks for enlarging everyone's appreciation of this Haydn gem. I found your information valuable.


You're welcome.


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## T Son of Ander (Aug 25, 2015)

Yes, this is a fantastic symphony. I have Dorati, Davies, and Janigro (Vienna Symphony), all of which I enjoy. I can't really pick a favorite.

By the way, concerning the Menuet-finale, I went through his symphonies, and 4, 9, 18, 26, and 30 all have a menuet as the final movement. I never even considered the possibility of any of them being unfinished.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

As a side remark, _Alberto Lizzio_ didn´t exist as a real person; he is fiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Lizzio
https://www.abruckner.com/Data/articles/articlesEnglish/berkyjohnpseudonym/pseudonyms.pdf
https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/lizzio-1997/


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Neward Thelman said:


> I'm annoyed at many professional commentators who observe that the D minor has only 3 movements, ending with the minuet, implying or stating out right that Haydn actually intended to end it as it stands today.
> 
> *There's just no possibility that Haydn would've ended a symphony with a minuet movement.* Had he intended a compose a 3 movement form, no doubt that he would've ended with a final movement type, as was customary during the classical period. Typically, that'd have been a rondo, rondo-sonata or sonata, or even a large fugal piece.


Thank you Ander's son. Minuet finales were pretty common in that period.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Haydn seems to have ended his works with a minuet fairly often. Among his numbered piano trios, the following end that way: 1, 3, 4 (a menuet and then a scherzo!), 19, 21, 24, 30, and 40.

He seems to have done this less often in later years. But I'd guess that his audiences admired a well-turned minuet and considered it quite an adequate "dessert" after the main course.

Beethoven did the same thing, in spades, with his Diabelli Variations of course.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah, I did a little checking, for fun - some further examples of symphonies from that age ending with minuets:

- Vanhal - Symphony in D https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Bapt...rs-Matthias-Bamert-Symphonies/release/2825533
- William Boyce - Symphonies 3+5 https://www.discogs.com/William-Boy...d-Thomas-The-Eight-Symphonies/release/3811906
- Dittersdorf - several Ovid symphonies https://www.discogs.com/Carl-Ditter...ies-After-Ovids-Metamorphoses/release/7917523
- Sammartini - Sinfonia dell´Accademia https://www.discogs.com/Giovanni-Sammartini-Five-Symphonic-Works/release/9742456
- Thomas Arne - Symphony no.3 https://www.discogs.com/Thomas-Arne-Cantilena-Adrian-Shepherd-Four-Symphonies/master/717812
- Myslivecek - Symphony in F https://www.discogs.com/Josef-Mysliveček-Concerto-Köln-Il-Divino-Boemo-Symphonies/release/4282763
- Benda - Symphony in G https://www.discogs.com/Jiří-Antonín-Benda-Symphonies/release/8447043


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