# Haydn vs Bach



## Arsakes

Which one is the better composer in 'orchestral' and 'chamber' music? 

I know they had around 50 years age difference, but still it's a good question.


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## bigshot

I don't see those two composers as being comparable in that way... Not like Haydn and Mozart at least.


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## Ukko

Arsakes said:


> Which one is the better composer in 'orchestral' and 'chamber' music?
> 
> I know they had around 50 years age difference, but still it's a good question.


I ain't going to argue with you, but I think it is not 'a good question'. Too much difference in intentions. Haydn was superior in string quartets featuring two violins, a viola, and a cello. Bach was superior in dance-derived suites for the harpsichord.


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## GoneBaroque

I must agree with bigshot and Hilltroll, there is not much basis for comparison, in my opinion.


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## Ukko

GoneBaroque said:


> I must agree with bigshot and Hilltroll, there is not much basis for comparison, in my opinion.


Point of Order, _GoneBaroque_. When references are not provided, 'in my opinion' [IMO] should be assumed. Your opinions (and mine of course) carry great weight, but still... .


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## Sid James

Can't decide. J.S. Bach set up many of the techniques that Haydn would go with and develop further in his music. They are linked but too hard for me to compare. On the whole though I like Haydn, in good part due to his optimism, imagery and humour.


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## jurianbai

I think the most close area of comparition is in vocal works. Creation compare to st Matthew passion.


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## Guest

Actually, there are a couple of areas for comparison - as jurianbai mentioned, vocal works. The comparison of the oratorios is a good one - Creation vs. St. Matthew Passion, Seasons vs. St. John Passion. In those matchups, I give Bach the win - but if you were to compare the Creation to the St. John Passion, I would actually pick Haydn.

Another area for comparison would be masses - Bach wrote several, as did Haydn. Haydn's "Nelson" Mass is a wonderful entry in the field, but Bach's Mass in B Minor is one of the greatest, so Bach wins again, but by a slim margin.

I don't see much in the way of comparison when we contemplate chamber music - our modern conception of it fits more with what Haydn did than Bach, I think, and when I am craving chamber music, I would be more inclined to reach for Haydn's string quartets than the works of Bach. And for orchestral, I really do enjoy Haydn's later symphonies. Both wrote solo keyboard music, and I think Bach is justifiably the master there of the two. But so much of what they both wrote is simply too much apples and oranges for honest comparison.


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## kv466

Not a comparison I really care to make but let's see,...both of their keyboard music are among my absolute favorites...I like how Bach uses strings as solo instruments better but I feel Haydn uses the strings together, better.


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## Moira

For choral music I do prefer Bach.


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## quack

Haydn wrote better operas! Well unless you classify the Coffee Cantata as a mini opera and then I think Bach wins again. Just listened to Il mondo della luna and I found it pretty irritating, haven't really warmed to Haydn's other operas either.


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## Andy Loochazee

Arsakes said:


> Which one is the better composer in 'orchestral' and 'chamber' music? I know they had around 50 years age difference, but still it's a good question.


The choices in your poll refer only to "chamber music", and yet your text refers to both orchestral music and chamber music. What exactly are you talking about? Whatever it may be, it would have been infinitely more sensible to ask for a comparison between Bach and Handel. If you want to compare Haydn's chamber music with that of other composers the obvious choices are Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert. At least, these last four sound pretty similar in basic approach, whereas the music of Bach and Haydn is a whole different ball game.


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## Arsakes

Andy Loochazee said:


> The choices in your poll refer only to "chamber music", and yet your text refers to both orchestral music and chamber music. What exactly are you talking about? Whatever it may be, it would have been infinitely more sensible to ask for a comparison between Bach and Handel. If you want to compare Haydn's chamber music with that of other composers the obvious choices are Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert. At least, these last four sound pretty similar in basic approach, whereas the music of Bach and Haydn is a whole different ball game.


I actually wanted to right both, but I mistook..

Well, comparing two different (even not much) composers is difficult, but I can compare Vivaldi with Shostakovitch ... It is not impossible, it's hard and finally it uses your favorite taste and style. I should have used another question. Still you can compare, don't be too critical!


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## Andy Loochazee

Arsakes said:


> I actually wanted to right both, but I mistook.. Well, comparing two different (even not much) composers is difficult, but I can compare Vivaldi with Shostakovitch ... It is not impossible, it's hard and finally it uses your favorite taste and style. I should have used another question. Still you can compare, don't be too critical!


 The obvious composer with whom to compare Haydn is Mozart, but this has been done so often I guess you felt that a bit of variety might be useful. The trouble is that I don't believe it makes much sense to compare Bach with Haydn, and it seems clear that most of the opinions on who is "better" are mainly refections about which kind of music, late baroque or classical, one prefers. For my part, I prefer Mozart to Haydn, and I'm equally happy with either Bach and Handel. As for Bach compared with Haydn, I prefer Chicken Dansak with pilau rice.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Haydn? Really?

I vote Bach.


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## Vesteralen

I like both


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## Red Terror

Bach vs Haydn? Does not compute. The poll should have pitted Haydn vs Mozart, and I would have chosen the former.


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## Artran

I don't see any point to compare these two composers. Just, why?


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