# Poll/Discussion: Is Phillip Glass a one-trick pony?



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

My personal opinion as a listener lies somewhere in between. He's a respected (_well..._) and established composer and one I enjoy too, and has truly created brilliance and touching works I appreciate. However, if you listen to enough of him the overlap and similarity is hard to deny and I get a cookie-cutter feeling after a while. Obviously, this is nothing new under the sun and people have said this about Glass ever since he started writing music and will probably continue to do so.

As the old jokes goes:
_Knock knock?
Who's there?
Phillip Glass.
Knock knock?
Who's there?
Phillip Glass.
Knock knock?
Who's there?
Phillip Glass._

Even though those were the words I chose to use, I think the term "one-trick pony" is a bit harsh. Yes, a trademark of his particular brand of minimalism is the repeated arpeggios over and over again (and not ALL Glass is like that), so it seems cookie-cutter on the surface, but of course, there's subtle changes going on beneath the surface indicating the gradual progression of the piece, which is what minimalism is all about. For some pieces though, I can't deny they all sorta sound the same. All and all, I like Glass but I would hardly consider him one of my favorite composers. What you think?


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Glass is one of my favourite composers - I voted "sort of" but as I write this now I think I should have gone with "no". Yes obviously he's got a clearly recognisable idiom within which he stays, but like you, I think "one-trick pony" is harsh. This criticism of Glass seems to rely on everyone forgetting that throughout the history of music, a lot of music has been like that. To the non-expert or non-enthusiast, Josquin's masses, or Vivaldi's concertos, or most classical symphonies, or Schubert's lieder, or 12-tone music, or blues songs etc etc etc "all sorta sound the same".

Anyone who thinks that, say, _Music in Similar Motion_ and his second violin concerto "sound the same" is just being lazy.


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Nereffid said:


> Glass is one of my favourite composers - I voted "sort of" but as I write this now I think I should have gone with "no". Yes obviously he's got a clearly recognisable idiom within which he stays, but like you, I think "one-trick pony" is harsh. *This criticism of Glass seems to rely on everyone forgetting that throughout the history of music, a lot of music has been like that. To the non-expert or non-enthusiast, Josquin's masses, or Vivaldi's concertos, or most classical symphonies, or Schubert's lieder, or 12-tone music, or blues songs etc etc etc "all sorta sound the same"*.
> 
> Anyone who thinks that, say, _Music in Similar Motion_ and his second violin concerto "sound the same" is just being lazy.


I think that's an excellent point, that came to mind myself as I was writing this thread. There's a LOT of music that's hard to distinguish from one another like all the examples you cited, but people have no qualms with it. Blues music is all based off of a single basic chord progression and two scales! How much more rudimentary or cookie-cutter can you get than that? Yet it's excellent music people love and formed the basis for popular music today.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's the fourth quartet






And the overture to La belle et la bete






And The Photgrapher


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

It's all pop music IMO, that what makes it sound so similar. It is all pure tones and very clear voices, all voices equally prominent and slickly rendered. That's his trick, and I think he insists on that style everywhere. He's made a lot of $$$$ out if it, so why change? 

The result is a music in which ambiguity or irony is absent, and of course that's why it's so popular. It is IMO kitsch from head to tail, very good kitsch.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I enjoy lots of his oeuvre - I'm particularly interested in his crossovers with popular music (the Bowie inspired symphonies, Songs from liquid days). By the way, he is one of the few contemporary composers whose name is reasonably well known even with the general public (as shown by his funny inclusion in the Simpsons, even though they got it wrong).


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Here's the fourth quartet


That was great! I love the cascading runs and rich, expansive sonorities and captivating flow the music has. Glass' music always reminds me of the common analogy of a river, it's always in flux and while it's the same entity, it's never quite the same river at any given moment, always renewing, recreating itself and progressing.

EDIT: Lol, just posted this as you edited yours and added the other videos and following comment. I don't think its kitsch like you said, but it's definitely very much within the Glass idiom and was pretty much what I expected going into it. Still enjoyed it a lot though


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's James Tenney's Koan, just for contrast


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> EDIT: Lol, just posted this as you edited yours and added the other videos and following comment. I don't think its kitsch like you said, but it's definitely very much within the Glass idiom and was pretty much what I expected going into it. Still enjoyed it a lot though


Well I did say it's very good kitsch! One problem I have with the later music is that I find it all a bit solemn and weighty. I think this, for example, takes a wonderful song and completely slaughters it IMO.






It's interesting to look for comparison at what a European minimalist does with existing material, in this case Beethoven, I think Bernhard Lang improves it.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> I enjoy lots of his oeuvre - I'm particularly interested in his crossovers with popular music (the Bowie inspired symphonies, Songs from liquid days). By the way, he is one of the few contemporary composers whose name is reasonably well known even with the general public (as shown by his funny inclusion in the Simpsons, even though they got it wrong).


The "atonal medley"? I get the feeling the Simpsons writers googled "who is a famous living composer" for that one.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I've never been a fan of Glass, Reich and Adams, although Adams is a bit more interesting than the other two. But I acknowledge that Glass has been successful. His score to _Koyaanisqatsi_, which I saw when it came out, was intriguing in the context of the film - but on its own, as with all of his music, there's not much there that interests me.

I once read a comparison between Glass's repetitive music and the high serialism of the 50s, that both were *static styles*, although coming from completely different processes.

I wouldn't say he's a "one-trick pony" - my mind just doesn't operate that way. I give all composers the benefit of the doubt about their process and style - their music either interests me or not, but I don't make any value judgments.


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

To me, Glass is no more a one-trick pony than Vivaldi or Bruckner, and other somewhat repetitive or formulaic composers whose works I enjoy.


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I want to erase my post and am searching for the requisite 15 characters


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I don't know whether that went away or not. Apologies for glitches.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Am I fair to consider Glass a composer of minimalistic talent and imagination? Or should I say simply that I prefer almost any other composer over him?

In any case, he cannot be faulted for his prolificacy. He _is_ possessed of more than minimalistic compositional energy.


----------



## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Sort of. I think Arvo Pärt's approach -- which escaped the "faddish" feel of minimalism in the west -- is more vital and varied, and it doesn't have that cynical edge that I sense in Glass, Adams or Reich.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I voted yes. His tunes are accessible for minimalism works but repetitive, which is how minimalism works.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

He derives his ideas from the common practice, (unlike some of the avant-gardists):



hammeredklavier said:


> "I was fascinated to hear Philip Glass, a pioneer of Minimalism, single out Schubert as a crucial influence on his own music. Glass did not mean that Schubert was some sort of proto-Minimalist. Yet there can be a ritualized aura, a transfixing quality, to Schubert's sonata-form movements. Often Schubert will take a theme that might already be rather long and put it through its paces during an extended development section. He will repeat it, without much trimming or concision, over and over as it goes through sequences and moves through different keys."
> < The Indispensable Composers: A Personal Guide / Anthony Tommasini / P.192 >


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Very much enjoying the first quartet, which I'd forgotten about when this thread was started. Written in 1966 - it shows what he could have become. It is certainly not predictable made of triadic cadences.



SanAntone said:


> I once read a comparison between Glass's repetitive music and the high serialism of the 50s, that both were *static styles*, although coming from completely different processes.


Feldmanesque. The sort of static music you find in Feldman. The first quartet sounds like a short form Feldman piece.


----------



## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

dah_____________________doh_____________________dum
dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di...

_________________________________________________________________________DUM


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

If Mozart or Beethoven were alive and they heard this, how do you think they would respond?


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> [video=youtube;8Q0G0-9E5SE]If Mozart or Beethoven were alive and they heard this, how do you think they would respond?


[shrug emoji]
Approximately the way Byrd or Monteverdi would respond to hearing Mozart or Beethoven? "This doesn't sound anything like proper music, but the future is weird so I guess it makes sense in context"?


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The first time I heard Phillip Glass (Ensemble) was at the Three Rivers Arts Festival in Pittsburgh. I was with two friends who, like me, had ingested a high dosage of LSD and had recently fled a fast food restaurant in hysterical laughter because one of said friends had placed his order by yelling: "Why don't you skin us a big grub!" The festival is spread out among a number of plazas just east of Point State Park at the confluence of the three rivers. We hear music coming from one of the plazas and move in that direction. There was saxophone, vocalists, keyboards and I'm not sure what else sounding. I remember thinking: Why do they keep arpeggiatiing the same chord? and then "This is the very worst prog-rock band I have ever heard." We quickly fled to a quieter plaza to look at the paintings.


----------



## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

I haven't heard everything he's written, and I don't intend to. What I HAVE heard is way too repetitive for my tastes. I prefer music where you have to search for the patterns -- not one that hits you over the head with it.... over, and over, and over, and over, and


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> If Mozart or Beethoven were alive and they heard this, how do you think they would respond?


Another question is, how would you respond to their response?

Their reactions would be interesting, but wouldn't dictate my own.


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

EmperorOfIceCream said:


> dah_____________________doh_____________________dum
> dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di dum di...
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________DUM


Wallace Stevens couldn't have said it better.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> If Mozart or Beethoven were alive and they heard this, how do you think they would respond?


I think they'd be impressed by the way the modulations give rise to a feeling of infinity in the listener. I think Beethoven especially would appreciate the primacy of rhythm over melody and harmony in the second section. I'm sure Mozart and Beethoven would admire his harmonic imagination at the end. Chopin would love this!


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> I think they'd be impressed by the way the modulations give rise to a feeling of infinity in the listener. I think Beethoven especially would appreciate the primacy of rhythm over melody and harmony in the second section. I'm sure Mozart and Beethoven would admire his harmonic imagination at the end. Chopin would love this!


I find that very hard to believe.

I'm not sure if the primacy of rhythm over melody is ever a good thing.


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

amfortas said:


> Another question is, how would you respond to their response?
> 
> Their reactions would be interesting, but wouldn't dictate my own.


Do you think they would take it seriously?

"is this a joke?" - Mozart


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> I'm not sure if the primacy of rhythm over melody is ever a good thing.


Why on earth not?


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Why on earth not?


is it typical in classical music?


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> If Mozart or Beethoven were alive and they heard this, how do you think they would respond?


I think they'd say "Not the most productive warm-up exercise".


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> is it typical in classical music?


Ah that's a different point.


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> I think they'd say "Not the most productive warm-up exercise".


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Ah that's a different point.


Is it? In the greatest pieces of classical music I don't think that rhythm is dominant.


----------



## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> I'm not sure if the primacy of rhythm over melody is ever a good thing.


In certain musics it is: Taiko, African, Native American. But not in Western music.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> Is it? In the greatest pieces of classical music I don't think that rhythm is dominant.


Even Philip Glass doesn't think that this is one of the "greatest pieces of classical music"


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

NoCoPilot said:


> In certain musics it is: Taiko, African, Native American. But not in Western music.


What about the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth symphony.

Not to mention isorhythm.


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

NoCoPilot said:


> In certain musics it is: Taiko, African, Native American. But not in Western music.


In certain music rhythm has the dominance, in the examples you gave, but it is still not a good thing. The music where rhythm is _not_ dominant is better.


----------



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Even Philip Glass doesn't think that this is one of the "greatest pieces of classical music"


Not sure what you mean here. No one said it was.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

EdwardBast said:


> We quickly fled to a quieter plaza to look at the paintings.


I love reading your life stories, Mr. EdwardBast :lol:, they seem to be full of drama, ie. fleeing, being abused, etc



EdwardBast said:


> I was verbally abused as I stood and left the man's office.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> "is this a joke?" - Mozart


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Smjcbscmhebcsmhcbscmjb


----------



## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

When I learned about Philip Glass I was listening psych/prog rock........and Bach mostly. It kind of filled the gap between Bach and Iron Butterfly so well. I love to listen minimalists still however Glass is now on the bottom of the list.


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

?Is Phillip Glass a one-trick pony 
I?s Phillip Glass a one-trick pony
Is? Phillip Glass a one-trick pony
Is P?hillip Glass a one-trick pony
Is Ph?illip Glass a one-trick pony
Is Phi?llip Glass a one-trick pony
Is Phil?lip Glass a one-trick pony
Is Phill?ip Glass a one-trick pony
Is Philli?p Glass a one-trick pony
Is Phillip? Glass a one-trick pony
Is Phillip G?lass a one-trick pony
Is Phillip Gl?*** a one-trick pony
Is Phillip Gla?ss a one-trick pony
Is Phillip Glas?s a one-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass? a one-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a? one-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a o?ne-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a on?e-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a one?-trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-?trick pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-t?rick pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-tr?ick pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-tri?ck pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-tric?k pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-trick? pony
Is Phillip Glass a one-trick p?ony
Is Phillip Glass a one-trick po?ny
Is Phillip Glass a one-trick pon?y
Is Phillip Glass a one-trick pony?


----------



## BeatriceB (May 3, 2021)

I voted yes because I think minimalism and Glass are very one dimensional.


----------



## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Riley>Reich>Adams>Glass

Riley and Reich are knowledgeable about non-Western traditions and thoughtfully work this into their music. Adams intelligently ties back to classical music. Glass always struck me as an intentionally naive composer who hits occasionally with works like Koyaanisqatsi - but even that is a superficial piece, rehashing the tired hippie ******** that humans once lived in harmony with nature


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Riley>Reich>Adams>Glass
> 
> Riley and Reich ate knowledgeable about non-Western traditions and thoughtfully work this into their music. Adams intelligently ties back to classical music. Glass always struck me as an intentionally naive composer who hits occasionally with works like Koyaanisqatsi - but even that is a superficial piece, rehashing the tired hippie ******** that humans once lived in harmony with nature


Glass's rhythmic ideas are derived from Indian classical music.


----------



## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

I listened to his 11th (released a few years ago, I think?), and found it surprisingly melodic- hardly the stereotype that he gets dismissed with so often.

I may also simply be in tune with minimalism generally (I had listened to Music for 18 Musicians and A Rainbow in Curved Air long before getting into classical music) due to my love of electronic music - that's all about slow development involving the interplay of repetitive lines.


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I voted yes because there's no option that encompasses the "no trick", Emperor without clothes description. Complete waste of good music paper.


----------



## cybernaut (Feb 6, 2021)

I'm a huge fan of Glass. I love a LOT of his music.


----------



## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

If he is a one trick pony, I like the trick.

Except for Symphony No. 5. Symphony No. 5 sucks. The rest I like.


----------



## cybernaut (Feb 6, 2021)

fbjim said:


> I listened to his 11th (released a few years ago, I think?), and found it surprisingly melodic- hardly the stereotype that he gets dismissed with so often.
> 
> I may also simply be in tune with minimalism generally (I had listened to Music for 18 Musicians and A Rainbow in Curved Air long before getting into classical music) due to my love of electronic music - that's all about slow development involving the interplay of repetitive lines.


I'm a HUGE fan of Terry Riley too. Love Glass, Riley and Reich. Also Meredith Monk. The only "major" minimalist composer I've yet to get into in a big way is John Adams.

I have no doubt that Philip Glass will go down in history as the greatest composer of the latter half of the 20th Century.


----------



## jkl (May 4, 2021)

I enjoy Glass' film scores. Music from The Hours is amazing.


----------

