# The Battle of the 4'33" Threads



## Becca

Watching how quickly the new 4'33" thread is growing makes me wonder.


----------



## millionrainbows

It's because Cage and other modern composers expose a great divide in the classical-music-listening public. Ne'er the twain shall meet.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I wonder what happened to the 4'33' thread I created the other day ... I put no content in the OP of course. I was being cage-y.


----------



## amfortas

It does raise the question: can one infinite sequence be longer than another?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Think we could blow all other threads out of the water if we did 4'33" as a Ring Cycle...............


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Think we could blow all other threads out of the water if we did 4'33" as a Ring Cycle...............


Or 4'33'' vs Ring Cycle.


----------



## amfortas

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Think we could blow all other threads out of the water if we did 4'33" as a Ring Cycle...............


Then I'd opt for Reginald Goodall's 4'33" Ring Cycle, with the ultra slow tempi. It's also in (silent) English.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

*"I hope you will see to it that my works are performed as a tribute to 4'33"; only in this way can they be intimately understood by an audience." Richard Wagner Oct 22 1877*


----------



## cimirro

millionrainbows said:


> It's because Cage and other modern composers expose a great divide in the classical-music-listening public. Ne'er the twain shall meet.


I don't agree, Cage is the first charlatan called great mater in music history, all the others at least became great composers at some point.


----------



## millionrainbows

cimirro said:


> I don't agree, Cage is the first charlatan called great mater in music history, all the others at least became great composers at some point.


John Cage not a real composer? Look at this excerpt from Freeman Etudes and get back to me on that opinion.


----------



## cimirro

millionrainbows said:


> John Cage not a real composer? Look at this excerpt from Freeman Etudes and get back to me on that opinion.


As I wrote in the other thread, the "style" is the same of other composers who created this musical sense or notation far before him.
the difference is that they made more work than just adding notes which almost all the time have the same values...
maybe this is the first time for violin, that's all...


----------



## cimirro

millionrainbows said:


> John Cage not a real composer? Look at this excerpt from Freeman Etudes and get back to me on that opinion.


Ok, I know I must be boring some people here - So let me ask a last thing:
Please do this:
1- Print this musical page of Cage's Freeman Etude you posted
2- Make any kind of analysis of it in the way you prefer, 
3- Write me back explaining what is the importance of these selected notes for the art - what changed? (score with annotations please).
4- I promisse I change my mind.

When I studied cage scores I really couldn't find anything special in a compositional point of view - I found it in all other modern composers.
If you are unable to do what I request, then I'm sorry, but your will be unable to claim any quality to Cage's work (or there will be only comments on your personal taste)


----------



## millionrainbows

cimirro said:


> Ok, I know I must be boring some people here - So let me ask a last thing:
> Please do this:
> 1- Print this musical page of Cage's Freeman Etude you posted
> 2- Make any kind of analysis of it in the way you prefer,
> 3- Write me back explaining what is the importance of these selected notes for the art - what changed? (score with annotations please).
> 4- I promisse I change my mind.
> 
> When I studied cage scores I really couldn't find anything special in a compositional point of view - I found it in all other modern composers.
> If you are unable to do what I request, then I'm sorry, but your will be unable to claim any quality to Cage's work (or there will be only comments on your personal taste)


The wrong criteria, the wrong expectations. In fact, your closing salvo, "…you will be unable to claim any quality to Cage's work" only underscores this miscomprehension.

It's not just my personal taste which is at play here; you are espousing a basic "paradigm failure" to what Cage is doing. You might just as well be in another dimension. Consult a star map.


----------



## millionrainbows

And, oh God, don't ever talk like this in front of Irvine Arditti.


----------



## cimirro

millionrainbows said:


> The wrong criteria, the wrong expectations. In fact, your closing salvo, "…you will be unable to claim any quality to Cage's work" only underscores this miscomprehension.
> 
> It's not just my personal taste which is at play here; you are espousing a basic "paradigm failure" to what Cage is doing. You might just as well be in another dimension. Consult a star map.


Yes, yes, I know...
Cage is too much "paradigm", too much "philosophy", too much "words", too much "criteria", too much "expectations", too much "miscomprehension"

Now, how about the music?... 
Yes, that old art of old people... remember? (those things we hear)

Well here we just return to my first sentence about Cage in this forum... what can I say...
Maybe he was a genius... I'm pretty sure it was not in music...

All the best
Artur


----------



## cimirro

millionrainbows said:


> And, oh God, don't ever talk like this in front of Irvine Arditti.


Ohhhhhh whyyyyyyy?
is he an untouchable God?????
I was not informed there are people owning the rights of speaking about art... nor living Gods...
I don't believe in living Gods, I'm sorry,
the only difference between Arditti and me is his fame... and the instruments we play


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

cimirro said:


> Ok, I know I must be boring some people here - So let me ask a last thing:
> Please do this:
> 1- Print this musical page of Cage's Freeman Etude you posted
> 2- Make any kind of analysis of it in the way you prefer,
> 3- Write me back explaining what is the importance of these selected notes for the art - what changed? (score with annotations please).
> 4- I promisse I change my mind.
> 
> When I studied cage scores I really couldn't find anything special in a compositional point of view - I found it in all other modern composers.
> If you are unable to do what I request, then I'm sorry, but your will be unable to claim any quality to Cage's work (or there will be only comments on your personal taste)


I enlisted all the best minds and this is the best they could come up with...............


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

4'33'' on TC is like the Kardashians. Not a lot of substance but people can't seem to stop talking about them.


----------



## cimirro

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I enlisted all the best minds and this is the best they could come up with...............
> 
> View attachment 91259


BRAVO, :clap: Now I understand why Cage was a genius :trp:


----------



## Woodduck

millionrainbows said:


> It's because Cage and other modern composers expose a great divide in the classical-music-listening public. Ne'er the twain shall meet.


Study geology. There is no great divide between a mountain (actual music) and a hole in the ground.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Woodduck said:


> Study geology. There is no great divide between a mountain (actual music) and a hole in the ground.


That really fits to a tee for comparison of major composers with cage!


----------



## Ingélou

The old one. It combines 4'33" with the issue of religion, so two contentious issues ought to win out over one.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I finally took the time to figure out what WGASA stands for. It gets my vote!


----------



## Weston

This has now become yet another 4'33" thread and so belongs in the classical music discussion forum.

I also want to revise my vote. _This_ thread will last the longest.


----------



## Becca

I started this as a poll about threads but it has apparently become about the topic itself. I should have known better and included it in the poll ... but <shrug> WGASA


----------



## Pugg

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I finally took the time to figure out what WGASA stands for. It gets my vote!


Or just abstain voting.


----------



## Gordontrek

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> 4'33'' on TC is like the Kardashians. Not a lot of substance but people can't seem to stop talking about them.


I still can't believe that the OP of the newest 4'33" thread said he couldn't find any discussion of 4'33" on here.
That's like watching a Kardashian show on TV and not noticing.....ahem.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Or just abstain voting.


abstainance makes the heart grow fonder


----------



## Barbebleu

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Or 4'33'' vs Ring Cycle.


Oh please no. In the name of pity, no.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

The advantage of 4'33" over the Ring cycle is that you can watch a performance before dinner and still have time to go out and get something to eat.............


----------



## Dim7

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


----------



## Blancrocher

A good point here, Dim7.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

that is that is a very short Ring Cycle


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> that is that is a very short Ring Cycle


That's part one.


----------



## 433

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> that is that is a very short Ring Cycle


 . . . .


----------



## Pugg




----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

433 said:


> . . . .


Its got another 33" to go here


----------



## ArtMusic

*It doesn't matter which goes on longer, there is no length in the number of thread pages, just pages; there is no content, just what's in the space taken up by the computer data bits; there is no comparison between the two, just that there is existence of the two ....
*
 Sound analogous?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

What makes for a bad performance of 4'33" Discuss...........


----------



## Blancrocher

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What makes for a bad performance of 4'33" Discuss...........


Over Christmas I got drunk and offered to perform 4'33'' for my friends and family in attendance and accidentally started playing Für Elise.


----------



## SarahNorthman

I have no idea what that even is.


----------



## Pugg

SarahNorthman said:


> I have no idea what that even is.


Keep it that way, much safer Sarah.


----------



## SarahNorthman

Pugg said:


> Keep it that way, much safer Sarah.


That is probably the best idea.


----------



## Gordontrek

I tell you h'wat. 
It's high time we settled this. Let's stream a live, in-person debate, the topics being "What is the point of atonality" and "what is the artistic merit of 4'33." Or anything that sparks flame wars and red moderator font. 
Better yet, let's do an MMA cage fight (CAGE fight, people, see what I did!) between all the usual suspects. Team millionrainbows vs. Team Mahlerian if he's still alive. Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!


----------



## Bettina

Gordontrek said:


> I tell you h'wat.
> It's high time we settled this. Let's stream a live, in-person debate, the topics being "What is the point of atonality" and "what is the artistic merit of 4'33." Or anything that sparks flame wars and red moderator font.
> Better yet, let's do an MMA cage fight (CAGE fight, people, see what I did!) between all the usual suspects. Team millionrainbows vs. Team Mahlerian if he's still alive. Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!


Don't forget the topic of Wagner's anti-semitism! That topic is guaranteed to lead to multiple bans and deletions within a few minutes...within 4 minutes and 33 seconds, to be precise.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

I would happily start up a debate about the uncalled-for demonizing of RK for his _bourgeois _version of Mussorgsky's _Boris Godunov_ by Bolsheviks and Modernists of the 20th century to add to the brawl. :tiphat:

Speaking of cage fights...

This is actually going to happen:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-brown-soulja-boy-to-settle-social-media-feud-in-the-ring/


----------



## 433

Blancrocher said:


> Over Christmas I got drunk and offered to perform 4'33'' for my friends and family in attendance and accidentally started playing Für Elise.


Now _that_ is just disrespectful


----------



## ArtMusic

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What makes for a bad performance of 4'33" Discuss...........


When there are distraction sounds but are considered but of the experience, examples include people coughing, sneezing, farting, phones ringing, chairs squeaking; generally undesirable noises, also sometimes if quiet enough the air conditioning vents may be blowing loudly. But some would consider all this as part of the zen factor of silence in general, so the degree of zen varies and hence the quality too.


----------



## David OByrne

ArtMusic said:


> When there are distraction sounds but are considered but of the experience, examples include people coughing, sneezing, farting, phones ringing, chairs squeaking; generally undesirable noises, also sometimes if quiet enough the air conditioning vents may be blowing loudly. But some would consider all this as part of the zen factor of silence in general, so the degree of zen varies and hence the quality too.


Do you have something against this?


----------



## ArtMusic

David OByrne said:


> Do you have something against this?


On its own, not at all; but as fine art composed music, most certainly, for it is not. The hypothetical experience I wrote above is valid just as one is sitting in a train or a bus; ordinary.


----------



## Daniel Atkinson

ArtMusic said:


> On its own, not at all; but as fine art composed music, most certainly, for it is not. The hypothetical experience I wrote above is valid just as one is sitting in a train or a bus; ordinary.


Just keep in mind that Mozart, Bach, Verdi, Beethoven Brahms etc. is just elevator music or shopping mall music or music for baby's to sleep to, for the majority of people in 2017. No amount of elitism can change that


----------



## Blancrocher

Huilunsoittaja said:


> This is actually going to happen:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-brown-soulja-boy-to-settle-social-media-feud-in-the-ring/


Be careful about your "likes" in this thread, everyone.


----------



## Gordontrek

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What makes for a bad performance of 4'33" Discuss...........


Performing it at all.


----------



## Pugg

Gordontrek said:


> Performing it at all.


Best answer so far, by 4'33" kilometres.


----------



## Poodle

Pugg said:


> Best answer so far, by 4'33" kilometres.



. . .


----------



## ArtMusic

Daniel Atkinson said:


> Just keep in mind that Mozart, Bach, Verdi, Beethoven Brahms etc. is just elevator music or shopping mall music or music for baby's to sleep to, for the majority of people in 2017. No amount of elitism can change that


That doesn't concern me, not at all. The fact is great music exist by Mozart, Bach, Verdi, Beethoven and Brahms, not necessarily by Cage's _4'33"_, which fails to serve even as elevator music.


----------



## Becca

Nonsense ... I've been in plenty of elevators where they have 4'33" playing on a perpetual loop.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Which of these two music pieces would you prefer while have brain surgery:

a) 4'33"
b) William Tell Overture


----------



## Ingélou

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which of these two music pieces would you prefer while have brain surgery:
> 
> a) 4'33"
> b) William Tell Overture


Depends whether you can have the pieces on continuous repeat. I hope I've got a little too much brain for the surgeon to finish the op in 4'33"...


----------



## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which of these two music pieces would you prefer while have brain surgery:
> 
> a) 4'33"
> b) William Tell Overture


Neither. Wagner's Parsifal would be better. I want the surgeon to spend a lot of time on me and not rush.


----------



## TurnaboutVox

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which of these two music pieces would you prefer while have brain surgery:
> 
> a) 4'33"
> b) William Tell Overture


I did once watch a neurosurgeon operate whilst he listened to soft rock, but he had it switched off when he was clipping the aneurysm (the tricky bit).

If it's me operating you'd better hope it's not music I'm actually interested in!


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

hpowders said:


> Neither. Wagner's Parsifal would be better. I want the surgeon to spend a lot of time on me and not rush.


Sounds like you need a lot of work.............


----------



## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Sounds like you need a lot of work.............


Not a lot. It's a delicate area. The slowest conductor I know. If the surgeon won't agree to Knappertsbusch, he/she ain't touching my skull.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

hpowders said:


> Not a lot. It's a delicate area. The slowest conductor I know. If the surgeon won't agree to Kappertsbusch, he/she ain't touching my skull.


Yeah, not a job were you want to find bits left over..............


----------



## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yeah, not a job were you want to find bits left over..............


It would be a shame if the surgeon was so intrigued by 4'33" that he lost concentration, destroyed my brain's classical musical posting area and thusly I would be disqualified from future postings on the Stupid Thread Ideas area of Talk Classical.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

hpowders said:


> It would be a shame if the surgeon was so intrigued by 4'33" that he lost concentration, destroyed my brain's classical musical posting area and thusly I would be disqualified from future postings on the Stupid Thread Ideas area of Talk Classical.


Nice segway back to 4'33". 
Yes that would be tragic, imagine being STI challenged by a 4'33" obsessive surgeon..... If the Surgeon was a Ring Cycle obsessive they might just continue on poking around endlessly...........


----------



## Bettina

I just hope that the surgeon isn't posting on STI while operating on my brain!


----------



## 433

I have a lot to say but I refuse to say it


----------



## Bettina

433 said:


> I have a lot to say but I refuse to say it


You are truly living up to your name.


----------



## Blancrocher

I once listened to a live performance of 4'33'' while getting brain surgery. For that reason, I was especially aware of the squishing sounds my brain makes when prodded with metal instruments.


----------



## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Nice segway back to 4'33".
> Yes that would be tragic, imagine being STI challenged by a 4'33" obsessive surgeon..... If the Surgeon was a Ring Cycle obsessive they might just continue on poking around endlessly...........


I'm sure a Ring cycle obsessive surgeon would insist on being paid directly with gold and wouldn't take credit cards.


----------



## hpowders

Bettina said:


> I just hope that the surgeon isn't posting on STI while operating on my brain!


Why not? What better proof could you want of his intelligence?

Anybody can have an MD degree and a seven year surgical residency.

But how many surgeons have listed "STI poster" as part of their resumé?


----------



## Pugg

Bettina said:


> You are truly living up to your name.


If not reputation.


----------



## 433

Pugg said:


> If not reputation.


Nobody is arguing over me yet, so I say that statement's wrong :angel:


----------



## 433

Bettina said:


> You are truly living up to your name.


Thank you, I'm here for another 432 days. You can take my autograph


----------



## millionrainbows

cimirro said:


> Yes, yes, I know...
> Cage is too much "paradigm", too much "philosophy", too much "words", too much "criteria", too much "expectations", too much "miscomprehension"
> 
> Now, how about the music?...
> Yes, that old art of old people... remember? (those things we hear)
> 
> Well here we just return to my first sentence about Cage in this forum... what can I say...
> Maybe he was a genius... I'm pretty sure it was not in music...
> 
> All the best
> Artur


Hey, man, it's only sound.


----------



## millionrainbows

cimirro said:


> Ohhhhhh whyyyyyyy?
> is he an untouchable God?????
> I was not informed there are people owning the rights of speaking about art... nor living Gods...
> I don't believe in living Gods, I'm sorry,
> the only difference between Arditti and me is his fame... and the instruments we play


No, Irvine Arditti is like a great athlete, a tennis player, or long distance runner…he has continually been improving on his elapsed time and accuracy with the Freeman Etudes, thought by Paul Zukofsky to be "humanly impossible" to play. Cage, with these etudes, has set a new standard of what is achievable in human endeavors.


----------



## millionrainbows

Woodduck said:


> Study geology. There is no great divide between a mountain (actual music) and a hole in the ground.


First, there is a mountain. Then, there is no mountain. Then there is.


----------



## millionrainbows

This thread may end up replacing TWO other threads: the other being "Stupid Thread Ideas."


----------



## Gordontrek

It's been like a week of peace on here, man! I was biting my nails in anticipation of someone coming back here to egg it on!


----------



## 433

Bettina said:


> You are truly living up to your name.


Sounds . Great .


----------



## 433

4'33 was just a misprint, the real piece has been rediscovered by musicologists


----------



## Pugg

Gordontrek said:


> It's been like a week of peace on here, man! I was biting my nails in anticipation of someone coming back here to egg it on!


One day it will bites itself in the tail.


----------



## ArtMusic

_4'33"]_ is food for taking up band width too in forums.


----------



## Tristan

If I never hear about 4'33" again, I will be a happy camper. Yet the incessant discussion it generates to this day just validates its reason for existence in the first place...


----------



## Pugg

Tristan said:


> If I never hear about 4'33" again, I will be a happy camper. Yet the incessant discussion it generates to this day just validates its reason for existence in the first place...


Amen to this..............:cheers:


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

4'33"
But Harry Partch is better


----------



## Bettina

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> 4'33"
> But Harry Partch is better


In retrograde: "33'4

But Beethoven is better


----------



## ArtMusic

_4'33"_ in the real world is about making lots of discussion noises because it generates a lot of discussion. Empirical fact.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

ArtMusic said:


> _4'33"_ in the real world is about making lots of discussion noises because it generates a lot of discussion. Empirical fact.


So did 4"33' Achieve Cage's objective when he composed it?

If so then it is a very successful piece of music QED....


----------



## millionrainbows

Nobody can say what 4'33" is until they experience it. 

It can ONLY be experienced. 

It cannot exist as a recording, or as a score (the score is simply a set of instructions).

4'33" is a duration of your experience. 

It "exists" only as YOU can experience it.

It is not a composition as we know it.

It is not silence.

It is not any specific set of sounds.

It is ONLY the sounds which YOU hear during a "performance" of it.


----------



## millionrainbows

So, how can anyone say that 4'33" is "good" or "bad"? 

What are they talking about? 

They can't be talking about YOUR experience, because that is yours alone.

They can't be talking about THEIR experience of it unless they have experienced a performance of it.

All else, all of this chatter, is about THE IDEA of 4'33", but not the experience itself.

They are chasing ghosts.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

millionrainbows said:


> So, how can anyone say that 4'33" is "good" or "bad"?
> 
> What are they talking about?
> 
> They can't be talking about YOUR experience, because that is yours alone.
> 
> They can't be talking about THEIR experience of it unless they have experienced a performance of it.
> 
> All else, all of this chatter, is about THE IDEA of 4'33", but not the experience itself.
> 
> They are chasing ghosts.


The thread is getting longer........... QED


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The thread is getting longer........... QED


And longer, longer, longer ......


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> And longer, longer, longer ......


Let's stretch it for 4'33" or more


----------



## Gordontrek

millionrainbows said:


> So, how can anyone say that 4'33" is "good" or "bad"?
> 
> What are they talking about?
> 
> They can't be talking about YOUR experience, because that is yours alone.
> 
> They can't be talking about THEIR experience of it unless they have experienced a performance of it.
> 
> All else, all of this chatter, is about THE IDEA of 4'33", but not the experience itself.
> 
> They are chasing ghosts.


Darn right we're chasing ghosts! I "experienced" 4'33" once. It was at a free concert, otherwise I wouldn't have gone. I ain't paying good money to hear nothing! People pay to hear great works played live by an orchestra/soloist/chamber group because there's no substitute for live performance. I can "listen" to 4'33" "live" in my living room.

Just thought I'd play a round or two....


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Did you know Cage tried 4'30" and 4'36" but was not satisfied..........................


----------



## 433

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Let's stretch it for 4'33" or more


It will end at 433 pages


----------



## Becca

Deep Thought got it wrong. Sometime during the 7.5 million years that it spent coming up with answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything, a rounding error occurred. The actual answer isn't 42, it is 4'33"


----------



## 433

Becca said:


> Deep Thought got it wrong. Sometime during the 7.5 million years that it spent coming up with answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything, a rounding error occurred. The actual answer isn't 42, it is 4'33"


That sounds . right .


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Let's stretch it for 4'33" or more


Perhaps Aguest will do the rest.


----------



## Daniel Atkinson

More 4'33 related discussion, why?


----------



## Pugg

Daniel Atkinson said:


> More 4'33 related discussion, why?


Very good question.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Very good question.


Why not. I've got 4'33" of time


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I predict that Trump will be in office for at least another 4'33"


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I predict that Trump will be in office for at least another 4'33"


I do hope you mean 44.3 days


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> I do hope you mean 44.3 days


No, 4 minutes and 33 seconds


----------



## 433

I see the 4'33 thread hasn't let up yet :lol:


----------



## Pugg

As long as we feeding it of-course it will go on.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> As long as we feeding it of-course it will go on.


We've got 4'33" and score more to go...................


----------



## 433

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> We've got 4'33" and score more to go...................


----------



## millionrainbows

433 said:


>


Is this a real score? I somehow doubt it.


----------



## millionrainbows

Gordontrek said:


> ...I ain't paying good money to hear nothing!


If you heard "nothing," then you weren't listening.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

millionrainbows said:


> Is this a real score? I somehow doubt it.


But is it the real score??we will have to time it:lol:


----------



## ArtMusic

433 said:


>


Where are the notes?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

ArtMusic said:


> Where are the notes?


Aaah, you want the notes we don't have much call for them around here- you'll have to try the non 4'33" threads.............


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Aaah, you want the notes we don't have much call for them around here- you'll have to try the non 4'33" threads.............


Let's do a poll about that.


----------



## hpowders

433 said:


>


Demonstrates real craftsmanship.


----------



## Strange Magic

millionrainbows said:


> If you heard "nothing," then you weren't listening.


The person seated next to me said, "Nothing.", but I was listening; I heard them say it clearly.

Perhaps it should be renamed Brief Sonata for Piano and Tinnitus.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Let's do a poll about that.


Yes and it can have 4'33" choices


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yes and it can have 4'33" choices


But we need 433 votes and the popular votes wins.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> But we need 433 votes and the popular votes wins.


I call the Aliens for help..................


----------



## Bettina

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I call the Aliens for help..................


Where were the aliens in November? That's when we needed them!!


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Bettina said:


> Where were the aliens in November? That's when we needed them!!


They got deported to Mexico..................


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> They got deported to Mexico..................


Within 4 hours 33 minutes .


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Within 4 hours 33 minutes .


Yes and in a Cage too................


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yes and in a Cage too................


I give John a call .


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> I give John a call .


I'm sure he will give you 4'33"..................................


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'm sure he will give you 4'33"..................................


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


>


Your lucky he doesn't Cage you...............


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Your lucky he doesn't Cage you...............


Just made a selfy, took 4 minutes 3 seconds .


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Just made a selfy, took 4 minutes 3 seconds .


The Cage suits you, how long will it take before you get out..................


----------



## Nevum

Hard to understand how ANYONE who likes classical music would even think of supporting Trump.... But he somehow managed to become president. I refuse to accept that people who like classical music voted for him.


----------



## Daniel Atkinson

Nevum said:


> Hard to understand how ANYONE who likes classical music would even think of supporting Trump.... But he somehow managed to become president. I refuse to accept that people who like classical music voted for him.


How is that a logical statement?


----------



## Nevum

Daniel Atkinson said:


> How is that a logical statement?


It is very logical.... Classical music is an advanced form of expression that reflects culture, humanism, civilization.... Simple.


----------



## ArtMusic

The thing about _4"33"_ is that anyone who comes across it for the first time is bound to make an opinion about it one way or another, that's why it keeps going on.


----------



## Daniel Atkinson

Nevum said:


> It is very logical.... Classical music is an advanced form of expression that reflects culture, humanism, civilization.... Simple.


----------



## Nevum

Daniel Atkinson said:


>


I am sure it was a funny joke. Almost as a bad as having Trump elected president ! Surrealism....


----------



## Pugg

ArtMusic said:


> The thing about _4"33"_ is that anyone who comes across it for the first time is bound to make an opinion about it one way or another, that's why it keeps going on.


As long as we feeding it, it will.


----------



## Gordontrek

Nevum said:


> It is very logical.... Classical music is an advanced form of expression that reflects culture, humanism, civilization.... Simple.


So that makes classical music a Democrats-only club?


----------



## Nevum

Gordontrek said:


> So that makes classical music a Democrats-only club?


Of course not. But certainly racists, xenophobes, and KKK supporters do not qualify. Dont you agree?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> As long as we feeding it, it will.


Hungry Hungry give me more more more.

It, 4'33" needs to feed every 4'33", as Cage intended.............


----------



## Varick

Nevum said:


> Hard to understand how ANYONE who likes classical music would even think of supporting Trump.... But he somehow managed to become president. I refuse to accept that people who like classical music voted for him.


Wow, one of the most inane comments I have ever seen here on TC (and I've seen a few).



Nevum said:


> Of course not. But certainly racists, xenophobes, and KKK supporters do not qualify. Dont you agree?


Wait, scratch that, This one beats the last one.

V


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

4'33" is politically neutral zone


----------



## Varick

I will post what I posted on the other thread:

Just throwing this out there but... could 4 33 possibly, just POSSIBLY, be a pretentious load of [email protected]?? Could much of Cage's works be the same? Could HE have just been a pretentious @$$????

Just asking.

V


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^ I'll think about that for 4'33".......... :lol:


----------



## Gordontrek

Nevum said:


> Of course not. But certainly racists, xenophobes, and KKK supporters do not qualify. Dont you agree?


Ok then. Let's say, hypothetically, I told you I voted for Trump. Would you call me a racist, a xenophobe, and a KKK supporter?

(p.s. I didn't vote for Trump. But my politics are most likely much further right of center than yours.)

The better question, though, is how did a 4'33" thread devolve into this? I think I hear moderator red coming.....


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Knock Knock Knock, jez that took longer than 4'33"


----------



## Bettina

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Knock Knock Knock, jez that took longer than 4'33"


Knock knock.

Who's there?

4.

4 who?

4 once can we just discuss music and not politics??


----------



## Nevum

Gordontrek said:


> Ok then. Let's say, hypothetically, I told you I voted for Trump. Would you call me a racist, a xenophobe, and a KKK supporter?
> 
> (p.s. I didn't vote for Trump. But my politics are most likely much further right of center than yours.)
> 
> The better question, though, is how did a 4'33" thread devolve into this? I think I hear moderator red coming.....


No, you make the wrong assumptions. Of course and not everyone who voted for Trump is racist and xenophobe. Most are misguided people who probably started regretting their votes seeing the chaos in the first week of is presidency. But some who voted for Trump are in fact racists and xenophobes. Trump was endorsed by the KKK and they are certainly racists and xenophobes. Thats a fact.


----------



## Varick

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Knock Knock Knock, jez that took longer than 4'33"


I do admire someone who is never afraid of beating a dead horse. lol!

V


----------



## Varick

Nevum said:


> No, you make the wrong assumptions. Of course and not everyone who voted for Trump is racist and xenophobe. Most are misguided people who probably started regretting their votes seeing the chaos in the first week of is presidency. But some who voted for Trump are in fact racists and xenophobes. Trump was endorsed by the KKK and they are certainly racists and xenophobes. Thats a fact.


Yes, and Stalin (The second biggest mass murderer in human history) endorsed the pianist Sofronitsky. So we should all stop listening to anything by Sofronitsky. 

Some racists and xenophobes voted for Hillary. And???????

OK, back the OP. Or at least Eddie with another 4:33 joke!

V


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Yep, well that took 4'33" of my life to digest.............


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yep, well that took 4'33" of my life to digest.............


Take some olive oil, brand: 4"33"


----------



## Gordontrek

Varick said:


> Yes, and Stalin (The second biggest mass murderer in human history) endorsed the pianist Sofronitsky. So we should all stop listening to anything by Sofronitsky.
> 
> Some racists and xenophobes voted for Hillary. And???????
> 
> OK, back the OP. Or at least Eddie with another 4:33 joke!
> 
> V


And Karajan was a member of the Nazi party! Guess I better dump all those CDs I have into the river! 
And NASA used a former Nazi rocket scientist to put humanity on the moon! Guess I better stop supporting NASA!


----------



## Daniel Atkinson

Varick said:


> I will post what I posted on the other thread:
> 
> Just throwing this out there but... could 4 33 possibly, just POSSIBLY, be a pretentious load of [email protected]?? Could much of Cage's works be the same? Could HE have just been a pretentious @$$????
> 
> Just asking.
> 
> V


Or maybe 4'33 was just a little philosophical statement about sound that has been completely beaten to death and made abstruse by pretentious people?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

You said it 4'33"


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> You said it 4'33"


I would say: touché .


----------



## Varick

It was always my understanding that when "performing" 4 33, the performer didn't have to be silent. That in fact, he or she could do or play anything they wanted as long it was within the time frame of 4:33. If they didn't want to play anything, that was fine, if they only wanted to play one, two, five, or twenty notes during that time, it was fine. If they wanted to play a Chopin minuet, that was fine.

I never looked at the score myself. Never saw the point. Can anyone give a definitive answer to that?

V


----------



## Becca

I am waiting for _4.33 - The Opera_


----------



## Pugg

Varick said:


> It was always my understanding that when "performing" 4 33, the performer didn't have to be silent. That in fact, he or she could do or play anything they wanted as long it was within the time frame of 4:33. If they didn't want to play anything, that was fine, if they only wanted to play one, two, five, or twenty notes during that time, it was fine. If they wanted to play a Chopin minuet, that was fine.
> 
> I never looked at the score myself. Never saw the point. Can anyone give a definitive answer to that?
> 
> V


you have to wait another 433 posts.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> you have to wait another 433 posts.


Where getting closer.....................


----------



## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Where getting closer.....................


As long as we feed it , yes we can.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

*4'33' - Poem by Doyen Lingua

Sounds. 
Sounds like 
(...) 
Sounds like heat death.

The audience wriggles and writhes: 
rustle, cough cough, taptaptap, anything to

Break the uncomfortable (...) 
Sounds like midnight winter 
At -273 celsius 
Seconds.

Follows all the rules 
Without any 
(music) . *


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

several 4'33" later


----------



## Phil loves classical

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> *4'33' - Poem by Doyen Lingua
> 
> Sounds.
> Sounds like
> (...)
> Sounds like heat death.
> 
> The audience wriggles and writhes:
> rustle, cough cough, taptaptap, anything to
> 
> Break the uncomfortable (...)
> Sounds like midnight winter
> At -273 celsius
> Seconds.
> 
> Follows all the rules
> Without any
> (music) . *


This poem is killing me :lol:


----------

