# Barenboim & CSO



## Mark60 (Mar 27, 2009)

Hi,
what do you think about Bruckner symphonies cycle / Barenboim / Chicago / DG?

i know of an excellent 4th

thank you


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

It's ok. Chicago plays well, but as with most orchestral works Barenboim has conducted he conducts them far slower than average. Not quite as slow as Sergiu Celibidache but still fairly slow. Now, slow isn't always a bad thing with Bruckner but Barenboim just seems to walk the line between almost interesting and boredom too often. 

You mentioned Bruckner's 4th and I like Karl Bohm's recording with the Vienna Philharmonic. Perfect example of a recording that is considered to have an unusually slow tempo but what it lacks in speed it makes up with momentum. Everything flows perfectly and naturally and just fits into place and the sound from the Vienna Philharmonic was made for Bohm's vision. He builds momentum like no other in this case and that for me is something that is really needed (as well as a great Brass section) for Bruckner.

Otto Klemperer was another not known for being a speed demon either and his Bruckner 6th is still one of the finest in the catalog for me.

I've heard far worse than Barenboim, but I think there is also far better.

For overall complete cycles I still much prefer Gunter Wand's NDR recordings on the RCA Label or Eugen Jochum's recordings with the Staatskapelle Dresden on EMI.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

I have two cycles plus some singles of Bruckner. Among them, the Barenboim/CSO is great fun listening


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## johntpt (Feb 19, 2014)

For me the Barenboim CSO set is interesting but the playing is a bit crass and over the top. I much prefer Barenboim's Berlin cycle.

However, since a copy can be had on Amazon for about $30, I'd say go for it! For many years that set was only available as a very pricey import. $30 is a steal for around 10 hours of music, especially for Bruckner!!


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## johntpt (Feb 19, 2014)

In fact, for years that set was more interesting to have just because it was a rare import than for the actual recordings. My copy was given to me by a friend in about 1994.


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## Bas (Jul 24, 2012)

realdealblues said:


> It's ok. Chicago plays well, but as with most orchestral works Barenboim has conducted he conducts them far slower than average. Not quite as slow as Sergiu Celibidache but still fairly slow. Now, slow isn't always a bad thing with Bruckner but Barenboim just seems to walk the line between almost interesting and boredom too often.
> 
> You mentioned Bruckner's 4th and I like Karl Bohm's recording with the Vienna Philharmonic. Perfect example of a recording that is considered to have an unusually slow tempo but what it lacks in speed it makes up with momentum. Everything flows perfectly and naturally and just fits into place and the sound from the Vienna Philharmonic was made for Bohm's vision. He builds momentum like no other in this case and that for me is something that is really needed (as well as a great Brass section) for Bruckner.
> 
> ...


Do you like Celibidache? Because I personally think his work with the Municher Philharmoniker is outstanding (the woodwind section sound is beyond compare!), but I am not a Bruckner expert and it is the only set I own. (Wand is on my to buy list...)


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Bas said:


> Do you like Celibidache? Because I personally think his work with the Municher Philharmoniker is outstanding (the woodwind section sound is beyond compare!), but I am not a Bruckner expert and it is the only set I own. (Wand is on my to buy list...)


Yes, I like Celibidache's Bruckner although I prefer some of his earlier recordings more so than some of his later ones. He was like Klemperer in some respects and after a certain age I just think he had to slow things down because he couldn't keep everything where it needed to be. He can claim spiritual this or that but I still firmly believe it had more to do with age than anything else. There are some from the Munich set on EMI that are more successful than others which is much the same way I feel about Klemperer's Bruckner. You are correct on the sound from the Munich set though, it's excellent.

Celibidache is kind of a rare case though. The man had so much love for Bruckner that you can't not feel his adoration for the man when listening to it. It's different in a special way and it's nice to hear once in a while, but it's not something I can listen to over and over again like I can Jochum or Wand and it's not something I would recommend someone new to Bruckner for example. When you get your Wand set someday, I would not be surprised if you find it becomes your most frequented Bruckner cycle and then find that you dig out the Celibidache more as a special occasion. That's more of how I am with it, but as always, your mileage may vary.


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