# Are there different pronunciation rules for opera vs normal speech?



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Or is it that the singers don't understand the rules well as I'd like? I've been watching a production of Carmen alternating between English and French just trying to get my ear in (I don't generally listen to French music) I've noticed on occasion to that Italian operas are sung slightly differently from spoken. So, for operas is there generally a sing it different rule?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

What differences do you notice?


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

one that pops out immediately to me is the "r" sound in German and French. typically the singer will opt to flip it as is done in Spanish or Italian. other than that, vowels are sometimes modified at the extremes of the range (at the top to get the note in the right place, at the bottom to help the note carry, usually with a more forward vowel)


----------



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I have noticed that in French on occasion they roll r’s rather than the typical c sound. I just didn’t know if this was on because they’re typically not native or if it was by design.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There may be in some languages. However, in English and Italian opera should be sung pretty much how you would speak in either language (although some regional variants of each should be modified when singing).


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Pronunciation in classical singing is neither standardized nor stable through time. Listening to singers on recordings from earlier periods reveals some interesting differences in all the common languages. 

English presents, among other things, a choice between American and British accents. Do we pronounce our "r"s? How do we say the "e" in "the"? Does "t" sound somewhat sibilant, as in British English, or is it just a quick closing off of the preceding vowel with tongue against gum?

In French, will the "r" be guttural (as generally spoken) or flipped (as in most other languages, employed in singing so as not to close the throat while producing tone)? 

The choice of "r" also occurs when singing German, as does the matter of the unaccented "e," as in "wille" or "rauschen," which some singers in earlier times pronounced almost as "uh" but most singers now bring closer to "eh."


----------



## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

I would like to point out that in the first half of the twentieth century, most of the great French-speaking singers employed a doubly-articulated r, with uvular constriction and alveolar articulation. Their intention was doubtless to simply do an alveolar r, but this double articulation is nearly ubiquitous. Most of them just could not remove all or even most of their uvular constriction for their rhotic phoneme. They also sounded like this when they attempted to speak in Italian, so I'm quite sure it's simply a matter of having absolutely miserable language training for a very long time. It makes for a very confusing listening experience, because every time my brain tries to hear whether they're using an alveolar or a uvular r, and it just won't accept that the answer is "both."


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Pronunciation in classical singing is neither standardized nor stable through time. Listening to singers on recordings from earlier periods reveals some interesting differences in all the common languages.
> 
> English presents, among other things, a choice between American and British accents. Do we pronounce our "r"s? How do we say the "e" in "the"? Does "t" sound somewhat sibilant, as in British English, or is it just a quick closing off of the preceding vowel with tongue against gum?
> 
> ...


singing with a French "r" (as conventionally spoken) is a nightmare. most singers are justified in opting for a different pronunciation when sung (there are a few freaks who can pull it off, but not very many. guttural "rs" are not not kind to the larynx in my experience.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

It drives me crazy when I listen to Corelli rolling his "r's" in _Romeo et Juliette_. Purely poor diction is all it is. There is no excuse for it. I don't believe there are differences in sound from speaking to singing -- just improper learning of the language being sung. I am sure it must be difficult to learn languages like Russian, Czech etc. but poor French really boggles my brain.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> It drives me crazy when I listen to Corelli rolling his "r's" in _Romeo et Juliette_. Purely poor diction is all it is. There is no excuse for it. I don't believe there are differences in sound from speaking to singing -- just improper learning of the language being sung. I am sure it must be difficult to learn languages like Russian, Czech etc. but poor French really boggles my brain.


Corelli's "r" annoys me too, but it's interesting to hear Edith Piaf, who was as French as could be, using a very strong rolled "r."


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Corelli's "r" annoys me too, but it's interesting to hear Edith Piaf, who was as French as could be, using a very strong rolled "r."


Hahaha! You picked my favorite TV commercial that has me ROTFLMAO. We all go around "gargling" in an attempt to mimic her voice. It's called, "over the top".


----------

