# Carl Maria von Weber



## tahnak

*Carl Maria von Weber : His operas and German Romanticism*

German opera made its first mature gesture in Mozart, especially with Die Zauberflote. A little isolated progress was with Beethoven's Fidelio. Then it came to its first full flowering in Weber. The pinnacle was, of course, Richard Wagner. Wagner lifted the opera on to another plane. These statements will serve to put the operas of Weber into quick perspective.
Weber was born in 1786 and died of consumption at the early age of thirty nine in 1826. Thus, his own lifetime lay within the lifetime of Beethoven. He was musically as unlike Beethoven as a contemporary genius could be. Yet, he remains the germinating link between Beethoven and Wagner. In Weber, German romanticism came to a head; his operas are full of the legendary atmosphere, the ghosts and spectres and goblins and the natural mythology of German folk art. When you add a rich and colourful imagination, you have the ingredients of a Weber opera in a nutshell. You can sense it at once in the preludial bars of almost any Weber overture. He throws you at once into the lands of romance and fancy and emotional ardour. Usually, it is Nature which is more often the active protagonist and the constant backcloth.
Weber wrote extensively for the stage. It was in the theatre that his original genius flowered and grew to fulfillment. The overtures have maintained enduring popularity in the romantic orchestral repertoire. Weber is a complete master in the overtures. He spun poetic and intensely imaginative summaries of their drama. He followed the fashion of the day by writing his overtures after the rest of the opera had been completed so as to give himself more elbow room.
Der Freischutz is Weber's best and most convincing opera. The overture sets not only the natural scene but the whole atmosphere of romantic mystery, magic and superstition. At once, we are at the heart of the matter in the lyric melody for four horns at the opening and the strange dark modulations. The famous clarinet passage depicts Max as he looks into the depths of the Wolf's Glen. The principal allegro is based on Max's aria and Agathe's prayer. Weber's invention is at its imaginative best throughout. At the end, all will be well as the brilliant coda leaves us in no doubt.
Der Freischutz retains the spoken dialogue derived from the German Singspiel. In Euryanthe, Weber essays grand opera at its most complete. He foreshadows the Wagnerian music drama, leitmotifs and all. The libretto was written by Hermina Von Chezy who also wrote 'Rosamunde.' In Euryanthe, a brilliant opening leads to a magnificent exposition and development of the leading themes to end in great splendour and triumphant pomp.
Abu Hassan is a one-act Singspiel to a libretto adapted from an Arabian fairy tale. It is light heartedly humorous in a way which the German romantics seldom achieved. It has a touch of foreign colour.
Weber was indeed the epitome of that German romanticism which swept through the minds of young Europe at the dawn of the nineteenth century.


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## ScipioAfricanus

I respect Weber but never got into his music. You have peaked my interest.


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## Aramis

Me big fan of Weber. He introduced me to opera as a genre, Freischutz's libretto was first I've ever read and same with the work itself, first opera ever listened entirely. Oberon is not so good, but still enjoyable. He incluenced Wagner a lot (compare Freischutz with Dutchman or Tannhauser).


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## tahnak

Aramis said:


> Me big fan of Weber. He introduced me to opera as a genre, Freischutz's libretto was first I've ever read and same with the work itself, first opera ever listened entirely. Oberon is not so good, but still enjoyable. He incluenced Wagner a lot (compare Freischutz with Dutchman or Tannhauser).


As I feel you are a Wagnerian, do tell me about Wagner's early operas like Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot. I have not heard them yet.


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## Tapkaara

I do not get Weber myself. I have a hard time with him as a romantic. He's more of a classical/romantic hybrid.


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## Aramis

tahnak said:


> As I feel you are a Wagnerian, do tell me about Wagner's early operas like Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot. I have not heard them yet.


Wagner, to tell the truth, wasn't born great composer. He was one of those who *achieved* greatness - his really early works are often disappointing. Earliest of his early operas, those which you mentioned, are not terrible, but I think it's best to explore them when you already are in good hands with his greater output. To me, great Wagner begins with Holländer.

Not all composers were monsters like Mozart or Mendelssohn, but at the other hand there is nothing wrong about it.


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## Aramis

Tapkaara said:


> I do not get Weber myself. I have a hard time with him as a romantic. He's more of a classical/romantic hybrid.


Do you keep in mind in what period did he live? He died even before Ludwig Van pushed up daisies. He was important transitional figure, but don't expect him to sound like first really romantic generation which he inspired.


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## Tapkaara

Aramis said:


> Do you keep in mind in what period did he live? He died even before Ludwig Van pushed up daisies. He was important transitional figure, but don't expect him to sound like first really romantic generation which he inspired.


Of course Iam aware of when he lived. I am in agreement that he is indeed a transitional figure between classicism and romanticism. I simply do not like his music.


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## Artemis

Weber is among my favourite composers. In fact, I believe I was the only member who listed Weber anywhere at all among the 40-odd members who responded to the following thread last year: http://www.talkclassical.com/5895-your-top-20-favorite.html

I placed him at No 17, sandwiched in between Sibelius at 16 and and Elgar at 18. Oh what "catholic" tastes I have!

During the 19th C Weber's status was a lot higher than it is today. He wrote mainly in the late classical style, but was among the earliest composers to point the way to Romanticism. He together with Beethoven, Schubert and Rossini were the biggest names at the time.

I became very interested in Weber about a couple of years ago when he was one Radio 3's "composers of the week". Since then I have acquired a lot of his output. Among my favourite works are his various opera overtures, Quintet for Clarinet & Strings, a Clarinet Concerto No 1, and an excellent Bassoon Concerto. "Invitation to the dance" is a very nice piece, which was very well known and oft-performed in the 19th C.


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## Aramis

Poor guy.

There are couple of composers that could be called "academic" or "theoretical". Everyone interested in music know their names and influence that they made upon forthcoming music but that's where it really ends.

So is with Weber. We all can recite the magic formula: Weber was important dude that influenced romantic composer, especially in case of opera, his opera Der Freischutz BLA BLA BLA AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF (...)

Even this forum is a proof of what I just wrote - the only thread about Weber is titled _Carl Maria von Weber : His operas and German Romanticism_, what a loathsome mantra, german romanticism, influence, forget this ******** and just listen for a change.

Clarinet concertos, symphonies, piano trio (flute instead of violin, the effect is incredible), piano quintet, clarinet quintet, piano sonatas.

I just recently got set of his chamber music. He really doesn't end on this <tfu> influental and innovative opera that influenced german romanticism and stuff.


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## Meaghan

He's definitely not just theoretical if you're a clarinetist. He's the composer pretty much all clarinet students are expected to play at some point. I didn't know much about his influence on opera until college, nor was I aware until then that people who haven't _played_ his other works tend to be unfamiliar with them. I second the recommendation of his clarinet concertos (as well as the concertino, the duo concertante, and the quintet); they are vibrant pieces that showcase Weber's flair for drama in a less corny way (IMO) than some of his opera writing.


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## Weston

Unfortunately the first thing I heard by Weber was _Invitation to the Dance_, I think orchestrated by Berlioz. To my young ears at the time it sounded like Johann Strauss mashed up with the lightest silliest of Mozart trifles. It still does, actually. It was too fluffy for me, so I shunned him for decades.

Since then I have a acquired the Piano Concerto No. 2 and two piano sonatas, but can't say I remember much about them. I'll check out his Clarinet Quintet in Bb and Flute trio in G minor performed by the Nash Ensemble on my Rhapsody account to see if I like them.


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## Conor71

Sorted! :tiphat:


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## Aramis

> He's definitely not just theoretical if you're a clarinetist. He's the composer pretty much all clarinet students are expected to play at some point.


That makes him even more academic, right? Just like Wieniawski is very well known among violin students but not many listeners know his works.



> Since then I have a acquired the Piano Concerto No. 2 and two piano sonatas


His solo piano stuff is good, but not as impressive as his other works so make sure you give them proper chance.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I have his operas _Die Freischutz_ (1821) and _Oberon_ (1826). The latter killed him. He died with all the exertion demanded with _Oberon_.


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## Sid James

I saw his _Clarinet Quintet_ live earlier in the year & it struck me as a pretty good piece. I've known his two symphonies and piano concertos for years, and while they perhaps don't reach the heights of some other composers, they offer a lot to the perceptive listener. Apart from his clarinet concertos, the concert pieces for clarinet and piano (seperately), the _Invitation to the Dance_ (of course!), and a few of the opera overtures, I haven't heard much else of his music. It seems that composers of the era immediately following the death of Beethoven (like Weber and Mendelssohn) are unfairly compared to that demi-god. We have to let go of our preconceptions and just enjoy their music for what it is - if it sounds "academic" compared to Beethoven, then so be it. But he was definitely a kind of link or transitional figure between Beethoven and Wagner (in the world of opera, at least)...


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## jurianbai

I only own his/her (for a long time I can't tell if he/she by name) Clarinet Quintet in Bb major, which is one of my favorite clarinet chamber piece.


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## Aramis

> But he was definitely a kind of link or transitional figure between Beethoven and Wagner (in the world of opera, at least)...


Not to mention that he was probably the one with weirdest musical mind before Berlioz.


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## Aramis

Check out this hair-rising overture, he was truely master and pathfinder of romanticism:


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## science

I don't get Weber's Piano Concerto #1. I wonder if anyone can give me some insight that might help me appreciate that work.


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## neoshredder

Enjoying his 2 Symphonies. Sounds like the Classical Era to me with a little Romanticism added. Nice mix.


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## Novelette

At risk of repeating a platitude, Weber's orchestration is astounding, rather like Mendelssohn's.

If memory serves, while making final preparations for the construction and unveiling of the Beethoven Monument in Bonn, the funding for which many composers contributed original works [Mendelssohn's "Variations Serieuses, etc.]; Wagner suggested to Liszt that the great musical minds collaborate again in order to dedicate another memorial, this time to Weber. Although nothing came from this music, it shows in what esteem the musical world [as exemplified by Wagner and Liszt; with especial reverence also from Chopin and Schumann] held Weber's outstanding works. It's a pity that Weber isn't so acclaimed in our day.


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## Tristan

I heard Weber's _Konzertstuck_ on Pandora and I knew that I had to buy that CD as soon as possible...

I also have a piece by him called _Invitation to the Dance_ and I love Hindemith's variations on themes by Weber (the best one being the section based on Weber's Turandot theme). I'd definitely be interested in looking into his music more.


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## joen_cph

Concerning the "Konzertstück", this lovely Hollywood-anno-1820-piece: some interesting, if poorly recorded versions:

There´s an early _Arrau_, with Defauw as a conductor, which together with the poor-sounding Arrau/Szell (1945) 



 is more agitated than his later, grand stereo with Galliera 




Also: _Glenn Gould_ (!) 1951 




Edit: sorry, wrong links earlier!


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## stevenski

What a beautiful second subject; and exciting swirling Weberian strings; I remember this from my teens, an old decca Eclipse LP. Thanks for link Steve


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## stevenski

Above refers to "Ruler of the Spirits", overture, the U-tube clip uploaded!Steve


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## KenOC

Weber was also a sometime music critic and no friend of some of Beethoven's works. Here's a delightful satire from 1809:

https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/weber-on-beethoven-s-fourth-symphony


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## joen_cph

Concerning the mentioned "Konzertstück", I unfortunately succeeded in messing up the link with the Arrau stereo recording, substituting it with a Leslie Howard recording instead.

Here´s the Arrau grand stereo with Galliera:


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## Guest

I would like to know more from Weber. He simply strikes me as someone worth knowing more about. 

All I have though...

Der Freischutz 
Concertante Works (Clarinet/Piano/Bassoon)
Chamber Music (Quintet, Quartet, Trio)

I think I'd like to try some of his piano sonatas, but I'd also like to hear about any other favorites you good people may have. Especially if you have another favorite opera from Mr. Weber


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## hpowders

Weber wrote two wonderful Clarinet Concertos and a terrific piece for bassoon and orchestra based on Hungarian themes.


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## Bulldog

Weber wrote many excellent works; the one I've been most enamored with his Grand Duo Concertante, and the best recording I have heard is from Janet Hilton on Chandos. Most performances of this work tend to prefer a somewhat choppy rhythm, but the Chandos team is smooth as silk.


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## Johnnie Burgess

I enjoy his 2 symphonies.


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## Sloe

Aramis said:


> Poor guy.
> 
> There are couple of composers that could be called "academic" or "theoretical". Everyone interested in music know their names and influence that they made upon forthcoming music but that's where it really ends.
> 
> So is with Weber. We all can recite the magic formula: Weber was important dude that influenced romantic composer, especially in case of opera, his opera Der Freischutz BLA BLA BLA AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF AND STUFF (...)
> 
> Even this forum is a proof of what I just wrote - the only thread about Weber is titled _Carl Maria von Weber : His operas and German Romanticism_, what a loathsome mantra, german romanticism, influence, forget this ******** and just listen for a change.
> 
> Clarinet concertos, symphonies, piano trio (flute instead of violin, the effect is incredible), piano quintet, clarinet quintet, piano sonatas.
> 
> I just recently got set of his chamber music. He really doesn't end on this <tfu> influental and innovative opera that influenced german romanticism and stuff.


Whatever Der Freischütz is a lovely opera and is one of my favourite operas I would say it is my favourite opera in German made before the Flying Dutchman. Unfortunately it is mostly staged in Germany were it is a hugely popular opera and have always been.


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## Pugg

If you think: Oh no not those again, think twice and take a listening.

​


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## JosefinaHW

I couldn't care less if the ENTIRE world thinks _Euryanthe's_ plot is ridiculous! It contains _Wo Berg ich mich... _and that is worth the entire opera!!!

_Wo Berg ich mich_.... is a fabulous piece of music: stormy, intense, dramatic, gorgeous! I've been listening to various performances on YouTube and so far I haven't found a performer who can land on the high and low notes with enough volume but also sing the lyric parts with sufficient legato and elegance. I'm going to keep looking, but the following are my three favorites so far.

Thank you Herr Weber! I am going to listen to all of your compositions!

Christian Gerhaher





Thomas Hampson





Thomas Krause (strength of voice for high and low notes, but.....)


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## SixFootScowl

JosefinaHW said:


>


I just got this set a couple days ago and this opera is wonderful. I have had several sets of Der Freischutz and yesterday, on the basis of how good Der Freischutz and Euryanthe are, ordered a copy of Oberon.

I think these are the big tree Weber operas or are there others I should be checking out?


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## JosefinaHW

The absolute best performance of "What Refuge Here?" from Euryanthe, Gerald Finley

Pure Passion!!! Crank the volume up to the MAX!


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## Woodduck

Fritz Kobus said:


> I just got this set a couple days ago and this opera is wonderful. I have had several sets of Der Freischutz and yesterday, on the basis of how good Der Freischutz and Euryanthe are, ordered a copy of Oberon.
> 
> I think these are the big tree Weber operas or are there others I should be checking out?


The Janowski _Euryanthe _is well-sung and solidly conducted and has good modern sound, but has a studio-ish feel. Here's an old but lively recording with some marvelous singing:

https://www.amazon.com/Weber-REININ...72369&s=music&sprefix=weber+eu,aps,224&sr=1-5

It's worth hearing just for the exciting Eglantine, Hilde Rossl-Majdan, but the others are fine too, and I prefer Maria Reining to the more sedate and mature-sounding Jessye Norman.


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## SixFootScowl

Woodduck said:


> The Janowski _Euryanthe _is well-sung and solidly conducted and has good modern sound, but has a studio-ish feel. Here's an old but lively recording with some marvelous singing:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Weber-REININ...72369&s=music&sprefix=weber+eu,aps,224&sr=1-5
> 
> It's worth hearing just for the exciting Eglantine, Hilde Rossl-Majdan, but the others are fine too, and I prefer Maria Reining to the more sedate and mature-sounding Jessye Norman.


Is there a time difference. I see the set with Jessye Norman is 3 disks, whereas the one you linked is 2 disks.


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## Woodduck

Fritz Kobus said:


> Is there a time difference. I see the set with Jessye Norman is 3 disks, whereas the one you linked is 2 disks.


I'm not sure the recording is uncut. Actually I don't know the opera very well. I suspect the Janowski is complete, but the other is a good supplement and it's available cheap (Gala label, no libretto).


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## Rogerx

Time to bump this thread , Der Freischütz and Oberon, other works like the clarinet concertos as well the Clarinet Quintets.
His Konzertstück in F minor, Op. 79 for piano & orchestra and overtures are well worth listening .


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## SixFootScowl

Rogerx said:


> Time to bump this thread , Der Freischütz and Oberon, other works like the clarinet concertos as well the Clarinet Quintets.
> His Konzertstück in F minor, Op. 79 for piano & orchestra and overtures are well worth listening .


I need to spend more time with Weber. I have listened and watched Der Freischutz plenty, but have neglected the other works. I have a video of Euryanthe that I need to get to.


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## tdc

Debussy remarked after hearing _Oberon_ that Weber's music made him think "of the multifarious revelations of music: serious, lively, passionate, mystic, of those which refresh the style, of those which unsettle the expression, and I asked myself, if his music, above all, were not pre-eminently the 'revealer'...of an undiscovered aesthetic order... an unknown type of passion."


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## ando

Rogerx said:


> Time to bump this thread , Der Freischütz and Oberon, other works like the clarinet concertos as well the Clarinet Quintets.
> His Konzertstück in F minor, Op. 79 for piano & orchestra and overtures are well worth listening .

















*The Complete Clarinet Music, Vol. II Clarinet & Orchestra* (1989, XLNT Music)
*The Brooklyn Philharmonic*
*Lukas Foss* conductor
*Jon Manasse* clarinet

full playlist


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## Kreisler jr

Most of the clarinet music are "standards" for clarinetists, so is the bassoon concerto for bassoon players. But of course, not everyone is interested in early romantic woodwind music. In any case, I'd recommend trying at least the clarinet concerto f minor and the quintet (that is in practice the 3rd most famous/played clarinet quintet after Mozart and Brahms). However, the greatest concertante piece seems to me the Concert piece for piano and orchestra. The two real piano concerti (modelled a bit after Beethoven's 1st and 5th, but otherwise closer to Hummel or Chopin and dominated by virtuoso piano) are also worth checking out as are the piano sonatas. Richter, Gilels, I think also Arrau and some other famous pianists recorded the 3rd and/or 2nd sonatas; a good recent complete recording is Endres on Oehms.

None of this is as important and striking as Freischütz, however, that is one of the great romantic operas. Euryanthe and Oberon have great music but poor dramatic plots, but at least the ouvertures are also highly recommended.


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