# Felix Mendelssohn is below average and his violin concerto was a fluke



## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)




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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Elijah is underrated. One of the greatest oratorios, preferable to Hansel’s Messiah and Haydn’s Creation in my book.

And the octet is phenomenal.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

How am I supposed to change your mind with words? I can only convince you by listening to his music. Here are 3 great pieces of him: a concerto, a symphony and an overture. I hope you enjoy!


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Elijah is underrated. One of the greatest oratorios, preferable to Hansel’s Messiah and Haydn’s Creation in my book.


"Underrated", yes. Preferable to Messiah and Creation - don't know, but I don't ask whether I'd prefer Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 4 ("Italian") to Mozart #41 or Beethoven #3 either. - St. Paul isn't too bad ...


Brahmsianhorn said:


> And the octet is phenomenal.


Agreed. And the second quintet. And the string quartet op. 80. And the piano trios. And lots of choir music. And the sonatas for organ. And ...


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The implication being that the Violin Concerto is the best thing he composed? I prefer a couple of the symphonies, other orchestral works, and some of the chamber music, so the premise seems silly to me.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Listen to his Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 (Scottish & Italian), Hebrides overture, his incidental music to A Midssummer's Night's Dream and his Octet.

No, he was not a one hit wonder.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Otto Klemperer was so impressed by the coda of the Scottish symphony that he deleted it and wrote his own. He tried to get Walter Legge to allow him to use it on the Philharmonia recording but Legge wasn't having it, however you can hear on a live recording with the Bavarian Radio Symphony. I will allow the reader to form their own judgement of whether or not Mendelssohn is below average.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I would not say that Mendelssohn's music is below average, but it isn't well above average either. Aside from some of his chamber music, I could easily live without any Mendelssohn. As for the Octet, I can't tolerate it.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I find Mendelssohn slightly underrated but am not the biggest fan of the oratorios either. They have great parts (like the instrumental and choral treatment of the "Wachet auf" chorale in St Paul or the Baalites clamoring in Elijah) but also some that sound sentimental (and regardless of Bach/Handel imitation a bit soppy) and I find the decision giving the narrative/"evangelist" part to a soprano (in St. Paul) puzzling and a bit grating on the ear.
Mendelssohn wrote great chamber music, overall the best between Beethoven/late Schubert and Brahms. He died too early before he could produce greater orchestral works; the "Scottish" and "Italian" symphonies are very good but I don't think they have quite the poetry and atmosphere of the "Hebrides" and MSND ouvertures.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll just say that I love Mendelssohn's music. I could listen to the violin concerto, 1st piano concerto, 3rd and 4th symphony, octet, Hebrides and MSND overtures, piano trios, and the cello sonatas repeatedly without diminishing my enjoyment. I also quite like 
the quintets
most of his quartets
Elijah
Ruy Blas overture
Most string symphonies
Concerto for two pianos
Concerto for Violin, Piano, and Strings

Actually, I'm not sure I have ever heard a Mendelssohn work that I did not like.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> I would not say that Mendelssohn's music is below average, but it isn't well above average either. Aside from some of his chamber music, I could easily live without any Mendelssohn. As for the Octet, I can't tolerate it.


Try Gieseking's Songs without Words, I think the performance is pretty unique actually, it may well be Gieseking rather than Mendelssohn who makes me think that this is a masterpiece.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Mendelssohn was certainly simple but his style works for him!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> the octet is phenomenal.


even these guys concur-


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

Rather than listing Mendelssohn masterpieces I would prefer to find this guy and lobotomize him


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

bagpipers said:


> Mendelssohn was certainly simple but his style works for him!


Mendelssohn was not simple.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Kurt Masur thought he was terriby under appreciated!...But why do you want your mind changed?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Kurt Masur thought he was terriby under appreciated!...But why do you want your mind changed?


Perhaps because it isn't working well and needs replacing


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Mendelssohn's works for solo piano are very good. Disparaging him is kind of dumb. The orchestral works as well are fine. Two good piano trios as well


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Even if we limit discussion to his music which has retained a place in the core repertoire, setting up the Liepzig music school with Schumann, basically inventing the modern concert format at the Gewandhaus and for his role in the Bach revival, its obvious that Mendelssohn's achievements where immense.

I think that Mendelssohn's approach to form was quite interesting. The _Capriccio Brilliante_ is like a mini concerto in one movement. It was admired by Liszt. There's a similar sort of fluidity found in works where one movement follows on from the other (he used the marking attacca, including in the _Violin Concerto_).


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

What does "average" mean? "Average" of 10 composers, say, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern?

Average 100 composerofs? Of 1.000 composers? Among 1.000 composers, I'd say that Mendelssohn is Champions League.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

What's that symphonic movement with the passage that sounds like streaming water? That was pretty cool he could achieve that simply harmonically with strings.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I love Felix Mendelssohn. His accomplishments include:

--At least three great symphonies (Italian, Scottish, Reformation)
--At least four great concertos (A Minor Piano Concerto, two numbered piano concertos, Violin Concerto)
--A Midsummer's Night Dream
--A few great overtures
--Songs Without Words
--Preludes and Fugues, Op 35
--Variations Seruse
--Two Piano Trios
--String Quintet no. 2
--Six Numbered String Quartets, especially nos. 2 & 6
--Octet
--Piano Quartet no. 3
--Elijah

Probably more, but I haven't listened to all his work


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I call him the Romantic Vivaldi. Because his style is Romantic. But very energetic similar to Vivaldi. Very enjoyable music.


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## oldpete (9 mo ago)

If the guy in the meme truly believes that, then he possesses no mind to change...


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Philidor said:


> What does "average" mean? "Average" of 10 composers, say, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern?
> 
> Average 100 composerofs? Of 1.000 composers? Among 1.000 composers, I'd say that Mendelssohn is Champions League.


Slightly outside the Top 10 Composers. The Romantic Era had so many good Composers. He’s right in the mix of those good Composers.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Ethereality said:


> What's that symphonic movement with the passage that sounds like streaming water? That was pretty cool he could achieve that simply harmonically with strings.


Probably the ouverture "The fair melusina" (Die schöne Melusine), although it is not strings only (and the "wave motion" seems a fairly common musical depiction). There is another great ouverture, less famous, Calm sea and prosperous voyage (like the Beethoven choral piece).


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

His string quartets are masterpieces (as is the Octet) and amongst my favourite works of any composer. For me he is one of the most underrated composers. The 6th quartet, particularly, is a brilliant piece. As far as vocal works are concerned I don't do any but really enjoy the violin concerto.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

"Mendelssohn is below average..."

BE SILENT.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

Philidor said:


> What does "average" mean? "Average" of 10 composers, say, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern?
> 
> Average 100 composerofs? Of 1.000 composers? Among 1.000 composers, I'd say that Mendelssohn is Champions League.





neoshredder said:


> Slightly outside the Top 10 Composers. The Romantic Era had so many good Composers. He’s right in the mix of those good Composers.


Slightly outside the Top 10 Composers? (Whatever this might mean)
So, say, Top 20 Composers? Then we are still talking about "Average Champions League", aren't we? Currently we have 32 participants in the CL every year ...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mendelssohn always makes me think of dancing scorpions 

L'âge d'or 1930 Scorpions Scene - Intro - YouTube


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Philidor said:


> Slightly outside the Top 10 Composers? (Whatever this might mean)
> So, say, Top 20 Composers? Then we are still talking about "Average Champions League", aren't we? Currently we have 32 participants in the CL every year ...


Let’s see.
Vivaldi, Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak, Grieg, Tchaikovsky, Debussy, Ravel, Sibelius, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich. So yeah Top 20 Is about right. As I feel more than half those names are slightly better.


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Below average in what aspect of music? We'd have more fruitful discussions if people were more specific about what they liked or didn't like about something.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Only Mendelssohn could write like this-




Op.35


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I will not waste minutes of my life I’ll never get back coming up with a clever response to the OP. Anyway, I’m thinking clickbait.


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## Scherzi Cat (8 mo ago)

Off with your head!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

How can you say, after hearing this, the guy wasn't sincere in his music.
(It's a sentimental rhetoric; of course, it's up to you to decide yourself)




Op.62 No.1 in G


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Ethereality said:


> What's that symphonic movement with the passage that sounds like streaming water? That was pretty cool he could achieve that simply harmonically with strings.


You mean this section (15:24) 




Op.56/i. (reminds me of Der fliegende Holländer)


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## wormcycle (Oct 14, 2020)

I like that, an average, under average, and above average composers. The average of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms....,.or should we add 300 more names to this list?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Kreisler jr said:


> Probably the ouverture "The fair melusina" (Die schöne Melusine), although it is not strings only (and the "wave motion" seems a fairly common musical depiction). There is another great ouverture, less famous, Calm sea and prosperous voyage (like the Beethoven choral piece).





hammeredklavier said:


> You mean this section (15:24)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! No, it was a typical quick-passing rococo breakdown but uniquely Mendelssohn and sounding incredibly watery, refreshing and colorful, to my ears. In some allegro-like movement of one of his symphonies.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Not a composer I like much personally. I think my favourite things of his are the Hebrides overture and the Italian symphony.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Maybe the scherzo (2nd movement) of the "Scottish" with "bubbling woodwinds"?
The passage quoted above sound stormy but more like wind to me than waves.


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## Denerah Bathory (6 mo ago)

He inspired Wagner to write a nice essay


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

I believe Crowder was ’pulling your leg’ with that sign…..but, it still turned into a 3 page response 😁


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Tarneem said:


> View attachment 176887


Is this you?


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Some time ago I turned on the radio in the car. I heard a well-known piece of music but couldn't think of what composition it was. It was of absolute beauty, breathtaking. I thought: even if this is all this composer has done in his life, this piece makes him a genius. It was Mendelssohn's Hebrides overture. 

He is not below average but above. And his violin concerto is one of the best.


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## ibrahim (Apr 29, 2017)

The first or second classical music CD I ever bought (from Best Buy no less!) was a recording of the violin concerto. "Average" composers are ones not remembered despite being performed during their time. Mendelssohn is not average by that metric as his music continues to be performed...


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

One of my very favourite composers. Mendelssohn managed to express a Romantic sensibility within the strictures of classical form like no one else. Listen to the sonata-allegro of his second string quintet to see that brilliance at work, powerful emotion that's perfectly structured:


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

The only thing that's below average is the question/ statement


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Wonderful composer, great works! For me, the violin concerto is not something that would define the worth of this composer. Rather some piano trios, string quartets and quintets and symphonies. And the Hebrides, of course! And some gorgeous piano music!

I cannot understand the purpose of the statement in the OP, to be honest. What is the statement aiming at?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Purpose is to create responses and is succeeding. There is little question Mendelssohn is among the greatest of all composers even if some people don't care for him.He came in No. 18 among all composers on my survery between Stravinsky and Ravel. I'd say that's above "average" whatever that may be.


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