# I am the only one who gets bothered with breathing noise in a classical music?



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

I can't find some pieces without breathing sounds and this bothers me. I can't stand hearing the sound of breating in a classical music. I hope I am not alone here?


----------



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

For example Paganini's romance is a very good piece but unfortunetly we are not able to listen to this good music without the sound of breathing on internet.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Recently a friend of mine (and an excellent guitarist himself) attended a guitar recital where the guitarist on stage breathed very heavily throughout the performance to the point it was distracting. I don't think I would be able to handle it, but my friend could tolerate it in that recital because of its addition to the emotion in the performance....


----------



## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Sometimes live, seldom on recordings. I once attended a camber recital with a fairly well known British Oboist (principal in one of the major London Orchestras) where he was blowing spit (quite loudly) from his instrument when he was not playing (Mozart K370 IRC). I was just about to leave my seat, but being a person of great personal restraint I opted not to as not to disturb the other audience!
Anyway, it made me painfully aware that orchestra wind players aren't quite aware of the noise they make behind the the sound curtain of the rest of the orchestra! 

/ptr


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

My occasional problem has been with people next to me in the audience. At a NY Philharmonic concert one guy's nose whistled with every breath. Finally I turned my head and stared right at him, thinking he might pick up on the noise he was making. He remained oblivious, but the tempo of his whistling hastened noticeably, probably because he was thinking about why the psycho next to him might be staring daggers into his face.


----------



## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> My occasional problem has been with people next to me in the audience. At a NY Philharmonic concert one guy's nose whistled with every breath. Finally I turned my head and stared right at him, thinking he might pick up on the noise he was making. He remained oblivious, but the tempo of his whistling hastened noticeably, probably because he was thinking about why the psycho next to him might be staring daggers into his face.


I have also experienced a problem with the person seated next to me. Specifically, the gentleman was snoring (Shostakovich Symphony 10). I didn't need to do anything though, his wife made her displeasure known.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I have a problem maybe with close position of the mic in recordings of chamber works. I am either hearing the breathing of the performers, or maybe there is a hissing sound of the bow being pulled across the string extraneous to the string vibrating. I'm sometimes not able to tell the difference, but it doesn't matter. It does bother me a lot! 

This is only in more modern, post analog recordings. I never noticed this with older recordings. Sometimes better audio quality is not really better. Or less is more.


----------



## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

I've heard many people complain about performers breathing or humming, but I rarely, if ever notice it. It seems natural to me that performers need to breathe when playing, so that's probably why I never am bothered by it when it happens.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm pretty good at drowning out these noises. Our senses are actually designed to do this, though once you let it get to you, you are doomed.


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

If it's a big problem in a recording, it tells me it's miked too closely.


----------



## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Weston said:


> I have a problem maybe with close position of the mic in recordings of chamber works. I am either hearing the breathing of the performers, or maybe there is a hissing sound of the bow being pulled across the string extraneous to the string vibrating. I'm sometimes not able to tell the difference, but it doesn't matter. It does bother me a lot!
> .


I agree. Not being a performer, I am uncertain whether that "breathy" sound is actual air moving in-out of a player's mouth or nose, or rather concerns the _physical_ act of that bow/string friction. But I hear it on piano recordings, and it sounds the same. So it must be breathing!

I know precisely what you speak of, and I do find it obnoxious. Modern recordings should be able to do away with it.

We aren't sitting in a hall watching the person play and emote. We bought the recording to hear the music. I do not see how the performer's diaphragmatic cadence lends anything of substance to the notes.


----------



## breakup (Jul 8, 2015)

Apparently you are not the only one who is bothered by this. Some time ago I heard a review of a recording by a singer, and the reviewer stated that the recording fidelity was so good that you could hear the sound of the singer breathing. If you hear the sound of breathing as a distraction, so be it, but if you hear the sound of breathing as a sign of a really good recording, enjoy. I have also heard people complain that a particular recording was a bit scratchy, but if it is a recording from the past, just be happy that we have the recording at all. Do you really expect the singer to sing without breathing, perhaps in some other reality.


----------



## breakup (Jul 8, 2015)

musicrom said:


> I've heard many people complain about performers breathing or humming, but I rarely, if ever notice it. It seems natural to me that performers need to breathe when playing, so that's probably why I never am bothered by it when it happens.


I think you'll like this.


----------



## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I've been told and taught to breath and snort while playing chamber music. As first violinist I need to lead and let my other three players know when to start. Leading needs to be obvious, visual and sometimes a sound. Those professional chamber players make it seem so easy. I find the snort distracting to listen to, and difficult to do. 

I've had a conductor who snorted at the upbeat before the first downbeat to start the piece. I played second violin right underneath. A very easy conductor to follow, no surprises, I knew exactly what to expect and when, and the snort helped. But yes, distracting to listen to.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Is loud breathing necessary in chamber music? Not when I play chamber music it isn't..... 

Or perhaps it's only useful if you can't see whoever is giving a cue...?


----------



## Oscarf (Dec 13, 2014)

If you are bothered by breathing then I am sure Glenn Gould is not your favourite pianist, breathing, humming, singing,... you get the whole performer noise package altogether


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I've solved this by only attending concerts by dead performers.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

breakup said:


> If you hear the sound of breathing as a distraction, so be it, but if you hear the sound of breathing as a sign of a really good recording, enjoy.


If ones criterion for a good recording is how the performer would sound if one were six inches from her face, then breathing might be a sign of a really good recording.


----------



## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

I am much more disconcerted by string players in quartets pulling faces when they play.


----------



## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

When I was at university in the 1970s my hall of residence used to engage the Allegri Quartet for a whole week, once a year. As a student you could attend the concerts for next to nothing. But one downside was a player (can't remember which instrument) called Bruno. He had enormous nostrils which would aspirate through the performances, adding a fifth voice particularly to the slow movements.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

atsizat said:


> breathing sounds


doesn't bother me at all, and moreover, i like it.


----------



## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

I don't like breathing sounds in instrumental classical music. It's most noticeable in chamber works, especially recordings made with a live audience. Up to a point it may be tolerable provided the quality of playing is good, but if it becomes too noticeable I would tend to discard that recording and find another. In the latter case, my trade-off preferences are such that I've never yet found a recording of any classical work that is so good in terms of performance but which is adversely affected by noise (either from the audience or breathing noises from the performers) that I can't find another version of that work by another outfit which is overall better.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I detest closely miked chamber recordings. Wind players gasping for breath. Mechanical noises from wind keys and string bows driving me crazy.

What REALLY bothers me is the professional reviewers who do not warn potential buyers of these distractions in their reviews!

I have a few closely miked performances that I don't ever listen to, even though the performances themselves are quite fine. Too bad.


----------



## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

Other humans breathing, whether they are performing or sitting next to me, is generally tolerable, unless the person next to me just crawled out from under an oxygen tent and appear as though they may not make it to intermission. In that case I just throw my coat over them and lean the other way. The resulting ruckus as they flail away struggling for a breath is a bit distracting, but I can deal with it. Percussionists have no excuse for either breathing or snorting, however. And snorting by wind players in any situation is just out of line, but thankfully not likely to be heard, unless done in unison with the concertmaster, in which case it would be grounds for a refund, depending on mic placement (if a recording) or seat choice (if a concert). It's perfectly acceptable, however, for the conductor to snort, hiss, spit, gag or walk over and bang the oboist on the head with his shoe if he or she feels they need to do that to get the best out of their orchestra. However, breathing in any form by a singer, particularly a contratenor, forget it. I'm out. I'll walk. Run, actually. Softly. The real deal-breaker is the rustling of corduroy trousers by anyone within a 100-yard radius of where I'm sitting. That really sends me into a rage. And I'm not talking about just concerts. I mean restaurants, parks, movie theaters, parking garages ... The problem is particularly annoying in January and February. Except in the UK where it persists year-round (I've heard). 

... I've got no problem with any of it. We're human. We breath.


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2015)

I actually take feel much the opposite. Breathing to me makes me feel closer to the performer while listening to a recording. Of course there is a limit. Some musicians probably breath too noisily without regard to the distraction. I think most musicians experienced enough to get to be on a major label recording know how to keep it to a minimum.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

What bothers me more is audience coughs during live recordings. The fact that they always occur in the same place makes them seem like part of the composition.


----------



## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

I was listening today to a great recording that made me recall this thread: Jean Barriere, "Sonates pour le violoncelle avec la base continue," performed by Bruno Cocset and Les Basses Reunies. (Recommended by soulpope elsewhere, btw).

Fantastic recording. I'm new to it, but I have another recording by Cocset and Les Basses Reunies that is equally exciting, both recorded in crystal clear fidelity; both beautiful, passionate performances, this latest recording is of music by the somewhat obscure baroque composer Barriere. Damn fine in all regards, in other words. 

But ... there is breathing clearly audible throughout on both recordings. It is so clear it sounds almost as if the musicians are playing in my living room. The breathing does not, in my opinion, detract in the slightest from these performances. Quite the contrary. For me, in a real way the breathing adds to the experience by conveying a sense of the passion involved in the performance. It's more visceral, emotive, real.

Not trying to sway the congregation, just offering an alternate view. 

IMO, YMMV, etc etc


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

papsrus said:


> . . .
> Not trying to sway the congregation, just offering an alternate view.
> 
> . . .


Yep. :lol:


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm only bothered by it if I have headphones on. Breathing techniques should be employed by non-singing and non-wind/brass performers. You'll notice many of the great wind musicians don't have as much of a problem on recordings as the string players. It almost always seems to be a string or a piano musician that is making a lot of noise, because they usually don't have to worry about breathing. 

I've always been bothered by people that take those public speaking classes that have to take that quick gasp of air to say their entire statement. I once heard that one of the main members of the Sons of the Pioneers (who were known for harmony) would make marks for them all to breath at the same time, and they would press their tongue to the roof of their mouth to quieten the sound of their breathing. If you breath through your nose and your nasal passages aren't completely clear, it sounds pretty loud. There's a recording of Bach's Cello Suites that I heard years ago that was so beautiful and recorded so beautifully, yet you could hear the cellist's nose sucking up the air right next to the microphone. 

I was a trumpet player in school and I also sing now, so I hardly make a sound when I'm breathing just sitting at home doing nothing. Even playing guitar, I try to make as little noise as possible. I'm careful about what chair I'm sitting in, I avoid certain shirts that have hard buttons or zippers on them. I don't wear jewelry as it hits the fret board. It also helps that I don't smoke anymore.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

papsrus said:


> ... I've got no problem with any of it. We're human. We breath.


… into microphones. It was an inevitable step in the evolution of homo sapiens.


----------



## Edi Drums (Jan 17, 2020)

manyene said:


> I am much more disconcerted by string players in quartets pulling faces when they play.


 Facial expressions don't apply when listening to audio recordings, of course, in which heavy breathing is often most noticeable and distracting.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I think Weston is right; what I used to think was breathing turned out to be the hiss of horsehair across the strings. I think everybody should go back and re-check this.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I can deal with breathing sounds as long as they arent unduly loud. Closely-miked SQ performances can be let down by this (eg The Quatuor Mosaique's Haydn). I dont mind conductors shouting and stamping though. Even the noisiest of the lot (Kobayashi) often amuses me. There is one particular recording of him in concert on youtube where he is particularly distracting though, because of the close miking. Some performances of Bach's cello suites can be off-putting because of excessively noisy breathing (eg Mork's set).


----------



## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

OP: Sounds of life are detestable to my ears.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Living performers and audience members drive me crazy.


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I'm seldom bothered by breathing, grunting, stomping, flipping of pages, squeaky chairs, even coughing; but I'm very much bothered by clicks on CDs. Yes, CDs, not LPs. And clicks are present also in official digital downloads. A prime example is Barbirolli's Mahler 9. There are so many clicks in the CD and the official download, so I seldom listen to it, however good the performance is.


----------



## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

atsizat said:


> I can't find some pieces without breathing sounds and this bothers me.


i came to like these, finally.

neither coughs and sneezes in the audience bother me anymore.


----------



## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

For goodness sake we all make noises and if a person attends a performance/or listens to a recording and is enraged by a squeaking chair or a cough from the audience or even the sound of a passing vehicle on a live recording then perhaps stop going to concerts or listening to recorded music, just concentrate on clinically produced studio recording that have been sanitised. 
Do not ever listen to the Lindsay St Qt who are IMO one of the best ens I have come across


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

The noise of breathing is permitted in Tippett's 4th Symphony!

If there is no breathing sound in the score then I would not wish to hear it, any more than other ambient noises such as dogs barking (much though I like dogs) or children playing (much though I like children - well mine anyway). The fact that we all breathe seems irrelevant to the question of whether it is a noise one wants to hear while listening to a musical performance. People make a whole range of noises, which are also part of being alive, and I can think of plenty of noises which I wouldn't want to hear during a performance of a Beethoven sonata or a Bach fugue.

Does anyone have Kovacevich's Beethoven sonatas? I don't listen to him in some because of breathing noises. Listen to the start of No 32. He can't be exerted right at the start, but there's some sort of odd noise. From then on it doesn't matter what he does: I'm distracted and irritated. Perhaps he's trying to add some sort of scary movie effect, as though a creepy monster is sneaking up behind you. (Apologies to Mr Kovacevich if it's an engineering defect.)

Musicians train themselves rigorously to produce sounds. A good performer can hit the right notes and do so with an appropriate attack, tone or whatever. What does that mean? It means that the sounds produced are the intended ones. If the performer cannot train themselves not to produce extraneous noises then I can't see how that is different from messing up by splitting a note on a brass instrument or accidentally catching a wrong key next to the right one: say on a piano one time in 20 when you aim for a C you catch the B a little (or sometimes the C sharp). Producing such noises (wrong notes or breathing sounds) is a fault of technique - just the same in either case. A performer who does not produce them simply has better technique in that respect. Tell me they're deliberate, and performer X always does a sharp intake of breath at that point (and they do so deliberately) then at least that's not a failure in execution (although maybe it is a failure in taste).


----------



## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

*@ Eclectic Al.* Have you ever been to a live performance? I am not having a go at you but if you expect a soloist or up to a full Orchestra to perform with out noises other than the music you will be bitterly dissapointed. So stick to studio recordings. :tiphat:


----------



## premont (May 7, 2015)

Imagine 4'33'' without breathing noise. It wouldn't be music at all.


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Some of my recordings with flute and clarinet have some pretty clear breath intakes, when mic'ed pretty close. It use to bother me a little bit when I would idolize music to the point where everything has to be perfect, but I started to find the technique pretty interesting and would actually listen for it and wonder when was the next breath intake in a passage.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Ewww, breathing makes classical music seem so _human._ I prefer the complete Platonic detachment of a perfect performance. This fits right in with my overly-rational outlook.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

premont said:


> Imagine 4'33'' without breathing noise. It wouldn't be music at all.


I discovered that every CD recording of 4'33" has _another_ version of it on side 2. Just turn the disc over and listen to the other side.


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

I thought I'd get a reaction. To add a bit of nuance to my post, I know that ambient noises are often unavoidable. I don't like listening to recordings with headphones, so I will always face ambient noise even if the recording itself has no audible extras.

The OP, though, was about breathing noises. What I'm really railing against is a casual acceptance of such noises. A pianist does not face the challenges of a singer or wind instrument player in relation to breathing, and some manage to perform brilliantly without loud breathing, groaning or humming. I genuinely don't see why a pianist who is unable to play without making such noises is excused. We expect all manner of physically challenging excellence from them in hitting the keys, and we expect all manner of breath control from singers and wind players. Why can't a modicum of breath control be expected from pianists?


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

mrdoc said:


> *@ Eclectic Al.* Have you ever been to a live performance? I am not having a go at you but if you expect a soloist or up to a full Orchestra to perform with out noises other than the music you will be bitterly dissapointed. So stick to studio recordings. :tiphat:


I think live performance and recordings are different, and I do indeed mainly listen to recordings - some of live performances, but mainly not.

With a live performance, there may be noises, but that is just part of the randomness of the world. The big problem with noises on recordings (whether of live or studio performances) is that they are always the same in the same place, so I'm just waiting for them. It's my problem, of course, in that if the recording sells over the long term then enough people don't mind.


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> Some of my recordings with flute and clarinet have some pretty clear breath intakes, when mic'ed pretty close. It use to bother me a little bit when I would idolize music to the point where everything has to be perfect, but I started to find the technique pretty interesting and would actually listen for it and wonder when was the next breath intake in a passage.


I'm can relate to this. Indeed, in one sense all a singer is doing is letting you hear a (very carefully constructed) breathing effect, and flute and clarinet players are just channelling the breath though a gadget, so you're never really going to get away from the breathiness of the whole endeavour. You could easily construct an argument that an intake of breath could be regarded as part of the sound of a flute performance, say.

My whinge is about breathing noises from players like violinists, cellists, pianists and the like. Some of this may relate to close miking, but often that's not really what's going on. It just seems that some have mastered the art of quiet breathing, and some haven't, just as some have mastered a refined ppp or a ravishing legato or the ability to separate contrapuntal voices better than others.


----------



## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> I think live performance and recordings are different, and I do indeed mainly listen to recordings - some of live performances, but mainly not.
> 
> With a live performance, there may be noises, but that is just part of the randomness of the world. *The big problem with noises on recordings (whether of live or studio performances) is that they are always the same in the same place*, so I'm just waiting for them. It's my problem, of course, in that if the recording sells over the long term then enough people don't mind.


I agree with you and yes it can be annoying especially if it is a wrong/fudged note, however I still prefer live recordings as it gives you the atmosphere of a concert.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Eclectic Al said:


> I thought I'd get a reaction. To add a bit of nuance to my post, I know that ambient noises are often unavoidable. I don't like listening to recordings with headphones, so I will always face ambient noise even if the recording itself has no audible extras.
> 
> The OP, though, was about breathing noises. What I'm really railing against is a casual acceptance of such noises. A pianist does not face the challenges of a singer or wind instrument player in relation to breathing, and some manage to perform brilliantly without loud breathing, groaning or humming. I genuinely don't see why a pianist who is unable to play without making such noises is excused. We expect all manner of physically challenging excellence from them in hitting the keys, and we expect all manner of breath control from singers and wind players. Why can't a modicum of breath control be expected from pianists?


PErfection is overrated.

I've been called on to create virtual backing tracks for scores of musicals and operettas occasionally, and I've heard the results of others that do the same. When THEY create them, they'll quantize, or use computers to play the scores perfectly, and they have no heart, no soul, no life.

Mine are artisan-crafted, so to speak. Each instrument is added individually, and played live. When assembled, they are a bit sloppy, and I'll fix that, but only a bit. My virtual scores sound more like a real orchestra BECAUSE they are not perfect.

Most people that do this sort of work have extensive libraries that will also include breathing sounds, fret noise, or even instrument noises that they can ADD to give it a more "live" feel.


----------

