# Interesting experience tonight, the ultimate OT thread



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

OK, folks, this is the community forum so I guess there is no penalty for posting off-topic (OT).

I just feel like sharing something completely unrelated to classical music, actually a bit opposite to it: sports.

In classical music circles sports are considered to be a lesser, primitive activity, I guess.

And many members here are Europeans (or from other parts of the world), and may see my thread as too American.

Whatever; I want to say it anyway. American members will understand what I mean, and I hope that Europeans and other nationals will as well. Or else, maybe nobody will reply to this post, and that's fine. I just want to vent.

So, here is what happened.

Tonight the college basketball team from my Alma Mater, ranked number 1 in the nation and defending champions, was playing at the home of the team from the university that my son is attending.

The college basketball team from my son's university needed the win. They are in what we call a bubble - right on the edge of qualifying for the playoffs (what we call March Madness). They've done enough to qualify (it's decided by a committee) but haven't had a win against any of the top-50 ranked teams which might doom them. Then they host the number 1 team. A win - the ultimate underdog upset since they aren't even ranked among the top 25 - would get them into the playoffs - a honor they have missed the last two times by a hair - my son who is a sophomore hasn't had the pleasure of seeing his team in a playoff game.

I am passionate about my Alma Mater. In the last three *decades* I've followed this team and rooted for them like crazy. 

And tonight, for the *very first time* in my life, I rooted against them. I really wanted my son's university to pull off the upset, and I was jumping up and down yelling "yes" at every one of their baskets, and saying "oh no!" when my team scored. A very strange experience for me, full of conflict and ambivalence.

My son's school won the game. It was a thrilling game with many lead changes and it went down to the wire. I was about to have a heart attack. The celebration at the end was wild, with unforgettable images (like the coach's three beautiful daughters crying and embracing him).

I was extremely happy for this win... even though it is a stab in the heart of someone like me, passionate about my own school.

Conclusion: a father loves his son more than he loves himself. 

Has this ever happened to anyone else here?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

That's a great story alma and even though I'm a European, I can understand the passion & your 'sacrifice' to cheer on what would normally be the 'opposition'. You never know, your cheering could have just been the extra support your son's team needed. Fans' support is what we call here the extra man (for your side) on the pitch, or in motor racing an extra second per lap.

I can understand the romance of a little team getting through to a major competition. Not sure about it being decided by committee though.

Not sure if you're familiar with the English football (soccer) league system but it consists of several leagues (& lowly non-leagues) with promotion & relegation between them. Each year in the national cup competition, every club who is registered with the FA (Football Association) can compete. There are a series of knock-out games in the early rounds (who plays who decided by lottery or 'draw') but it's not until the 3rd Round that the top teams can enter. 

This means that a non-league team which may comprise part-timers & who also have 'real' jobs, can play against a top team. The gate money is shared so for a little team this can be a fantastic windfall. Of course every little team wants to be drawn against Manchester United!

Congratulations to your son's team.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Very nice story.

I'm a big fan of basketball and (American) football, but I don't follow the college games.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> That's a great story alma and even though I'm a European, I can understand the passion & your 'sacrifice' to cheer on what would normally be the 'opposition'. You never know, your cheering could have just been the extra support your son's team needed. Fans' support is what we call here the extra man (for your side) on the pitch, or in motor racing an extra second per lap.
> 
> I can understand the romance of a little team getting through to a major competition. Not sure about it being decided by committee though.
> 
> ...


Yep, Annie, the committee thing is weird, but not entirely. The college basketball playoffs get 68 teams (with four play-in games to get it down to 64, then the subsequent rounds cut it to 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 - that's what we informally call March Madness and officially the NCAA tournament). About half of these 68 teams qualify by winning their respective conferences. But then the field of 68 is not complete and there are teams that are "at-large" - meaning, they haven't won their conferences but did well enough to deserve consideration. So the committee meets and looks at the available data - win-loss percentage, strength of schedule (meaning, how many top teams have played against them), big wins against top teams, etc.

Usually it is reasonably clear and there is reasonable consensus about what teams have done enough on the court to qualify for an at-large invitation, and what others suck and there is no way for them to get invited. But once the pretty clear ones get placed and there are just a few spots remaining, a small number of teams get into what we call the bubble - they have apparently done just enough, but others have as well in comparable terms, and then intangibles start to kick in. The committee may for instance look at just what happened last night: an upset against the number 1 team, and this will tip the balance and get them in.

It is a relatively fair process because it's based on what actually happened on the court. It's not like the committee just picks teams based on subjective reasons. There is no alternative, really, because of the many regional conferences. There are so many college teams, we wouldn't be able to organize a tournament with teams really competing against all others and everything being decided on the court. These are student athletes and their season needs to be relatively short and they need to play teams that are relatively nearby, not on the other side of the country, since they also need to attend classes, learn, and graduate (hopefully). So it's as fair as we can manage: winners of conferences get in, and then the remaining spots are filled by a committee that looks into all of the above, because there is no way to do a direct comparison. The runner-up in a conference with no ranked teams can not have the same weight of the runner-up in a conference that has 5 ranked teams (meaning, the latter has played against much tougher competition). So the committee will favor the latter over the former.

And yes, I'm familiar with the Premiership and the lesser leagues, the FA Cup, all that. I root for Arsenal, and follow some of the games on TV - but not as much as I follow the Italian league (Serie A), where I root for AC Milan. Soccer is actually my second favorite sport, just behind American football, and ahead of Ice Hockey and College Basketball (I don't care for the NBA). Baseball rounds up my top five preferred sports.

I do follow American soccer teams (especially, of course, the national team) but our league, called MLS, is not that good (it's been getting better, though) so I tend to follow more the leagues from abroad on TV.

I'm one of the people in the minority here who do like both American football and world football (soccer), something that many here find weird - much more common is to see people who love one and despise the other, since they are very different from each other in many aspects (high-scoring American football versus low-scoring soccer, stop-and-start American football versus free-flowing soccer, etc.). But for different reasons, I love both.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

How can you stand the Serie A?!
ITs the most boring, awful football on the planet.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

science said:


> Very nice story.
> 
> I'm a big fan of basketball and (American) football, but I don't follow the college games.


Yes, the college games have a more local appeal, since we root for the schools we have attended, and those who watch from abroad don't have a stake in the fight so it's understandable that there is low interest for college basketball abroad. But the reason why I much prefer college basketball over the NBA is the idealistic aspect - these kids are playing for the school, not for money (to a certain degree - of course the top players do play with an eye on the NBA for after they're done with their college careers - but they are a minority - there are 2,000 college teams and only a tiny percentage of these players will go on to a professional career).

What American football team do you support, and do you get to watch their games often on TV?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I understand it more now, alma & it sounds fair.

***spooky*** just as I was reading your post Arsene Wenger was being interviewed on TV  Arsenal are in one of the other cup competitions. Bob Wilson being interviewed as I type.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> How can you stand the Serie A?!
> ITs the most boring, awful football on the planet.


Well, I'm Italian-American with dual citizenship and I have family in Italy, so there is more of an emotional connection. And while Italian soccer is more defensive-minded (catenaccio) than the fast and dynamic English Premiership and the artistic Spanish La Liga, I wouldn't exactly call it the most boring and awful football on the planet - at least, not when compared to our poor MLS here.:lol: The Italian style does win games, as proven by four World Cups and many Champions League titles. A win is a win, even when it is accomplished by locking up the door bolts on the defensive side and betting on ties and narrow wins.

These things often depend on having a stake on the fight. I've followed AC Milan for decades, in good and bad times, so regardless of the games appearing boring or not for someone who doesn't have the emotional connection, for me the games are exciting.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Im sure you enjoyed the 2-0 beating my club (Ajax amsterdam) gave Milan in the Champions League


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> Im sure you enjoyed the 2-0 beating my club (Ajax amsterdam) gave Milan in the Champions League


Well, if now you also say that you don't like Anna Netrebko La Bellissima, then you'll be in trouble with me!


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> Im sure you enjoyed the 2-0 beating my club (Ajax amsterdam) gave Milan in the Champions League


Hey we were cheering the same team on the world cup


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Holland?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Yes, the college games have a more local appeal, since we root for the schools we have attended, and those who watch from abroad don't have a stake in the fight so it's understandable that there is low interest for college basketball abroad. But the reason why I much prefer college basketball over the NBA is the idealistic aspect - these kids are playing for the school, not for money (to a certain degree - of course the top players do play with an eye on the NBA for after they're done with their college careers - but they are a minority - there are 2,000 college teams and only a tiny percentage of these players will go on to a professional career).
> 
> What American football team do you support, and do you get to watch their games often on TV?


I'm actually an American living in South Korea - I went to an American university that just doesn't excel at any major college sports. (We're good at ice hockey and squash, decent at fencing - who watches fencing?)

I'm a passionate fan of the Philadelphia Eagles. I don't know why, but I have a deep, irrational, fervent, pious attachment to that team.

I watch their games (and a few others) through NFL.com, which costs me about $200 / year, but I'm able to watch the games at my convenience (time zones mean I sometimes can't watch live) and without commercials.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Well the underdogs won the League Cup. Birmingham City 2 Arsenal 1.

It was 1 - 1 until the then in the 90th minute Obafemi Martins scored for Birmingham. I love his goal celebrations.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

science said:


> I'm actually an American living in South Korea - I went to an American university that just doesn't excel at any major college sports. (We're good at ice hockey and squash, decent at fencing - who watches fencing?)
> 
> I'm a passionate fan of the Philadelphia Eagles. I don't know why, but I have a deep, irrational, fervent, pious attachment to that team.
> 
> I watch their games (and a few others) through NFL.com, which costs me about $200 / year, but I'm able to watch the games at my convenience (time zones mean I sometimes can't watch live) and without commercials.


Oh, OK, I thought you were Korean...
Well, the Eagles are a good team. I'm ashamed to tell you what team *I* support... The dead last Carolina Panthers. At least we'll have the first draft pick.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Well the underdogs won the League Cup. Birmingham City 2 Arsenal 1.
> 
> It was 1 - 1 until the then in the 90th minute Obafemi Martins scored for Birmingham. I love his goal celebrations.


That's the guy who was with Newcastle a while back, right?
I remember him from the time I was following the Premiership more.
Oh well, so much for Arsenal. Can't even win the Carling Cup!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> That's the guy who was with Newcastle a while back, right?
> I remember him from the time I was following the Premiership more.


Yep that's the guy. He's fab.



Almaviva said:


> Oh well, so much for Arsenal. Can't even win the Carling Cup!


That's what all the pundits were saying.


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

Always a good thing when Duke loses.


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## Lipatti (Oct 9, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Well, I'm Italian-American with dual citizenship and I have family in Italy, so there is more of an emotional connection. And while Italian soccer is more defensive-minded (catenaccio) than the fast and dynamic English Premiership and the artistic Spanish La Liga, I wouldn't exactly call it the most boring and awful football on the planet - at least, not when compared to our poor MLS here.:lol: The Italian style does win games, as proven by four World Cups and many Champions League titles. A win is a win, even when it is accomplished by locking up the door bolts on the defensive side and betting on ties and narrow wins.
> 
> These things often depend on having a stake on the fight. I've followed AC Milan for decades, in good and bad times, so regardless of the games appearing boring or not for someone who doesn't have the emotional connection, for me the games are exciting.


No need to defend yourself for your excellent taste, Alma. Serie A is by far the most exciting football league in Europe, and then I'm taking all factors into consideration. The image of italian football as a defensive-minded one is starting to get really outdated and develop into a false myth - remember the 2006 World Cup where Italy played the best and most dynamic football in the competition (10 different goalscorers is a record). Also, the italian league is full of colorful teams like Fiorentina, Lazio, Samdporia, Genoa, Udinese etc, the matches between these teams often being very exciting with lots of goals and entertaining football. Overall, I find Serie A to be much more equilibrated than Premier League and La Liga, where there's a huge gap between the richest teams and the rest of the league.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Lipatti said:


> No need to defend yourself for your excellent taste, Alma. Serie A is by far the most exciting football league in Europe, and then I'm taking all factors into consideration. The image of italian football as a defensive-minded one is starting to get really outdated and develop into a false myth - remember the 2006 World Cup where Italy played the best and most dynamic football in the competition (10 different goalscorers is a record). Also, the italian league is full of colorful teams like Fiorentina, Lazio, Samdporia, Genoa, Udinese etc, the matches between these teams often being very exciting with lots of goals and entertaining football. Overall, I find Serie A to be much more equilibrated than Premier League and La Liga, where there's a huge gap between the richest teams and the rest of the league.


Really?

I have watched all the european leagues and have them all on my TV subscriptions. The Italian league is by far the most boring to watch. I can understand if you have a club-allegiance that you would be anxious for your team to win, but objectively the football is boring, uninspiring. Two teams holding back, unwilling to take risks is not fun. Lets face it this is the truth, the fact that you call it 'outdated' shamefully shows that they Italians have failed to make their game more exciting or be more daring.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Oh, OK, I thought you were Korean...
> Well, the Eagles are a good team. I'm ashamed to tell you what team *I* support... The dead last Carolina Panthers. At least we'll have the first draft pick.


Good luck to you! This year, with the free agency postponed, the draft might be even more valuable than usual.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

science said:


> Good luck to you! This year, with the free agency postponed, the draft might be even more valuable than usual.


The good thing about supporting the Panthers is that nobody can call me a front-runner.:lol:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Lipatti said:


> No need to defend yourself for your excellent taste, Alma. Serie A is by far the most exciting football league in Europe, and then I'm taking all factors into consideration. The image of italian football as a defensive-minded one is starting to get really outdated and develop into a false myth - remember the 2006 World Cup where Italy played the best and most dynamic football in the competition (10 different goalscorers is a record). Also, the italian league is full of colorful teams like Fiorentina, Lazio, Samdporia, Genoa, Udinese etc, the matches between these teams often being very exciting with lots of goals and entertaining football. Overall, I find Serie A to be much more equilibrated than Premier League and La Liga, where there's a huge gap between the richest teams and the rest of the league.


I think so too. The lesser teams are always a challenge. I didn't want to start an argument with emiellucifuge, but I think that Italian football is very strategic, as opposed to kicking the ball upfield like sometimes we see in the Premiership.

And besides, I love the defensive game. My idol was Paolo Maldini. Franco Barese wasn't too shabby either.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

When I went to Barcelona last May I got tickets for FC Barcelona v Tenerife (who've now been relegated).

In La Liga there doesn't seem to be much of a culture of 'away' fans & when Tenerife scored they had no fans to celebrate in front of. I nearly gave them a cheer but then thought better of it. 

I would love to able to say I saw Lionel Messi score. He did score, twice, but I was faffing around with my waterproofs, umbrella etc that I missed both goals. 

It was torrential rain & I was so concerned about getting my camera wet I only took a few photos. Really glad I went though.

 

*Lionel Messi* ................ *Nou Camp in the rain*

 

*half-time*


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Now Barcelona, theres some beautiful exciting football!


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> Really?
> 
> I have watched all the european leagues and have them all on my TV subscriptions. The Italian league is by far the most boring to watch. I can understand if you have a club-allegiance that you would be anxious for your team to win, but objectively the football is boring, uninspiring. Two teams holding back, unwilling to take risks is not fun. Lets face it this is the truth, the fact that you call it 'outdated' shamefully shows that they Italians have failed to make their game more exciting or be more daring.


I don't watch much Serie A but the few games I've seen were pretty entertaining. A 3-2 win for Lazio over Udinese before Christmas, then a 5-3 game between Roma and Inter, and a 4-3 comeback for Genoa against Roma last week. I probably prefer it to La Liga actually. The worst thing about Italian football is the diving but that's all over the world now with all the import into the big European leagues. I also enjoyed Spurs doing both the Milan sides.:trp:

Apart from the Old Firm, I find the Scottish Premiership to be of quite low quality, but even then you get some decent games, just like you can in the Conference or lower leagues. Quality players doesn't always equate to a good watch. Just look at that borefest that was United vs Marseille last week. Our away form is absolutely atrocious, to be top of the league by four points is more of a reflection of how poor Arsenal and Chelsea have been playing recently.

I think Wolves home form shows how strong the Premiership is. They've beaten United, City and Chelsea at home this season and are still in the relegation zone. Even the top teams in the Championship like QPR and Swansea would do well in some of the other European top tier leagues.

That was a good game today though. Birmingham deserved it, especially considering Arsenal should have conceded a penalty and have been down to ten men after a few minutes as Bowyer wasn't offside. Plus, it means more to a club like Birmingham who really haven't won much at all in their long history. For the top teams it's a nice bonus but it's treated as a Mickey Mouse trophy until the semi's.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> Now Barcelona, theres some beautiful exciting football!


Arsenal beat Barca. Birmingham beat Arsenal. Thus, Birmingham are better than Barca.

LOGIC.

Seriously, when they are *on*, Arsenal play some of the best smooth flowing attacking football I can remember seeing, but it's just that they are more often *off*, especially defensively. (See Koscielny)

I think the best thing about Barca is their work rate when they don't have the ball, always pressing the oppisition, and their movement off the ball when in possession. However, their tactic of passing the other team to death when they are in the lead can get a bit tedious, especially when it's just triangles in the back four.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

dmg said:


> Always a good thing when Duke loses.


I'm sorry that we don't give very often an opportunity for you to enjoy this good thing.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Classical music people don't like sports? :lol: I'm sure we all like sports just as much as everyone else, but are a little more reserved about our fandom. It's fanaticism about sports that we see as primitive, not necessarily the sports themselves.

Anyway, I enjoyed your story, and appreciate what you went through. I tip my hat to you for your selflessness: :tiphat: (I did keep getting "Alma Mater" confused in my mind with "Alma Mahler," though.)

I personally don't enjoy watching basketball, but I can see why others would enjoy it. I just don't understand the rules, and I don't have a team to follow. I enjoy watching football every now and then (American football and "soccer" ), and even though most people don't think it's a sport (it is, I swear!), I almost always watch NASCAR. People say it's just driving around in circles, but it really involves tons of strategy on the part of the whole team. A single pit stop can make or break a race for someone.

But enough about me! Congrats on your son's win! And I'm sure you'll reconcile the contradiction in your mind as soon as your Alma Mater plays someone else. :tiphat:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Kopachris said:


> And I'm sure you'll reconcile the contradiction in your mind as soon as your Alma Mater plays someone else. :tiphat:


Thanks. That's for sure, including because our biggest rivals will play against us this Saturday evening at their home. These games are always epic. Since the loss on Saturday, we're tied with them for first place in the regular season, so assuming that we both win our mid-week games, the regular season "title" will once more be decided by this derby that ends the regular season, as is traditionally the case.

I don't doubt that motor sports depend on strategy, and that drivers must be resilient athletes to endure the physical toll and stress of the races, and have excellent eye-hand coordination, etc. I'd agree that they *are* sports.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

AC Milan 3, Napoli 0. Good second half, Pato in good form.
We open 6 points ahead of Napoli and 5 ahead of Inter.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

haha... I completely agree we have soccer talks overhere. I haven't follow Serie A for maybe 10 years, though I am not completely agree if that is most boring league in Europe.

English Premiere league is extremely popular here. 

But then I follow Magnus Carlsen more than Ronaldinho...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Update: my son's school did not make it. They were the highest team left out of the NCAA tournament, and consequently the highest seed in the "loser's bracket" or NIT tournament. They got really, really close... but failed.

My own school on the other hand won its conference and got one of the four number one seeds in the NCAA tournament.

AC Milan however lost today to Palermo... and its lead in Serie A is threatened.

Right now, I'm not watching any opera or listening to any classical music... but rather watching a fabulous Butler-Pittsburgh basketball game on TV, part of the NCAA tournament.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm so disappointed to see Memphis out. I was so pumped for them to win in 2009, but it seemed that even their classic defense couldn't pull them through. And it seems like the same case this year.

One of the biggest upsets this year was Louisville's loss to Morehead State. I know a ton of people who bet Louisville on making it into the Sweet Sixteen (and further) and were quite upset by their defeat.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Just a note, as soon as I saw the word "sports" in the first post, I didn't read any further


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Just a note, as soon as I saw the word "sports" in the first post, I didn't read any further


Hey, a good balanced life is made of multiple interests.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili (Jan 26, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Conclusion: a father loves his son more than he loves himself.


Wrong conclusion.

I think that you love your son more then you love sports, but the 'a father loves his son more than he loves himself' conclusion is a natural conclusion at any given chance not only in this case. The main point that this story brings out that when the excitement of the sport that you love reached its zenith, you still chose to love your son more then any sports in the world, no matter the team or the association, no matter win or lose, your son comes first, and his victory was your victory.

Cheers,

Saul

P.S Great Story


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Just a few notes about the posts so far:

Almaviva - you were quite right to support your son despite your affection for your old institution. Had you been playing instead of him I've no doubt you'd have wanted to beat them!

Arsenal FC - a team of invertibrates who try too often to walk the ball into the net. Even my team beat them 2-3 at their place.

Birmingham City - been a long time coming. The only other trophy they've won is the same competition back in 1963 when it was far more minor than it is now.

Italian football - can be just as breathtaking as that of any other league but defensive savvy has been central to its game even before Helenio Herrera coached Internazionale Milan in the 60s to bore everyone to death. At least Glasgow Celtic managed to have the cajones to take them on and beat them in the 1967 European Cup Final (and with a team who were all born within a 30-mile radius of Glasgow). 

American Football - always a pleasure to find out that the Giants have beaten the Redskins.

Baseball: just to show that I'm not a complete overdog by liking the Yankees I would actually root for the Orioles - as long as they relocated back to St. Louis and became the Browns again.

I'll end with a Celtic story.

About 20 years ago the Celtic 1967 European Cup-winning side were paraded at Celtic Park before a game. The then-Celtic skipper (probably Paul McStay but not totally sure) asked the legendary forward Jimmy Johnstone how his current Celtic team would get on against the 1967 one that Jinky Jimmy graced. Jimmy paused for a moment or two and said, 'I think it would be a tie'. McStay wondered if Johnstone was being too modest. 'Not really - you got to remember that we're all in our 50s now...' 

RIP Jinky...


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> AC Milan however lost today to Palermo... and its lead in Serie A is threatened.


Not forgetting being knocked out of the Champions League by Tottenham.



elgar's ghost said:


> Arsenal FC - a team of invertibrates who try too often to walk the ball into the net. Even my team beat them 2-3 at their place.


Should have beat them yesterday.










City vs Chelsea later is a hard game for me to decide on. Who do I want to see lose more? Maybe an entertaining 3-3 would be nice.

Rangers to do Celtic later as well. Hopefully, only a couple of reds shown this time.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

It's either a testimony to my capricious taste in sports or something else involved that has led to my paying less attention to 'March Madness' over the years. However (like most tall-ish Americans) I was expected to be able to play a passable game of basketball. As a result, I spent more childhood time with that sport than any other, and know enough about what it takes to perform at a high level to have a respect for the abilities involved.

Waited a while to address this- so belatedly...


sospiro said:


> I can understand the romance of a little team getting through to a major competition. Not sure about it being decided by committee though.


Historically, the softest selections in the Big Tournament are not the Committee Selections, but the automatic bids from the "weak sister" conferences. It gets really brutal if such a conference winner advances to "The Dance" by an anomalous run in their conference tournament. It's not unknown for a team with a .500 (or even losing) record to squeak in that way.

And yes, once every decade or so, a low seed of this nature posts a result like the FA Cup performance of Stevenage Town against a Premier League team a few years back- but 49 times out of 50, they're savagely outclassed in an uncompetitive non-event.

So it's my position that the Tournament's biggest problem _isn't_ the at-large selection procedures.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Wrong conclusion.
> 
> I think that you love your son more then you love sports, but the 'a father loves his son more than he loves himself' conclusion is a natural conclusion at any given chance not only in this case. The main point that this story brings out that when the excitement of the sport that you love reached its zenith, you still chose to love your son more then any sports in the world, no matter the team or the association, no matter win or lose, your son comes first, and his victory was your victory.
> 
> ...


Good points, Saul, and thanks!:tiphat:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Just a few notes about the posts so far:
> 
> Almaviva - you were quite right to support your son despite your affection for your old institution. Had you been playing instead of him I've no doubt you'd have wanted to beat them!
> 
> ...


LOL, very funny Celtic story!
And thanks for the interesting observations above.
Just one clarification: my son doesn't play for his school's team. He is a fan and a supporter, of course, and paints his body with the team colors, yells and jumps up and down until he is hoarse and so forth, but he doesn't play for the team. The sports that he does play are soccer and rugby. He could have played soccer in college (he used to be quite good before the injury, and an all-conference first team defender - or rugby, his team was very competitive and ranked 7th in the nation and 1st in the Southeastern US in his senior year), but suffered a complicated ACL rupture in his senior high school year, needed extensive surgery and 9 months of rehabilitation, thus missing the boat. But he doesn't regret it (at least, not confessedly). He is too busy academically, with a double major and several extra-curricular activities, doing very well with a 4.0 GPA. Varsity sports would have occupied such a chunk of his time that he wouldn't likely be able keep this perfect GPA, get the internships and the study abroad opportunities that he's getting, etc. (Maybe I'm rationalizing because I'd have loved to see him play, and maybe he's rationalizing/denying it as well since he was devastated when he suffered the injury - but anyway, he says that he's happy with his academic success and student body leadership positions that he is getting, and he has resumed recreational intramural play - of course, not at the level he was before the injury, but according to him, it's entertaining enough and doesn't require time commitment).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Sorry about that - I'd better re-read your OP!


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili (Jan 26, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Good points, Saul, and thanks!:tiphat:


My Pleasure!


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