# Violin concertos vs. Piano concertos



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Why are violin concertos not as common as piano concertos?

Mozart had 27 PCs and only 5 VCs, Beethoven had 5 PCs and only 1 VCs. Did any composer write more VCs than PCs? Could it be VCs are more difficult technically to write?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Paganini wrote at least five violin concertos and none for piano that I know of. Vieuxtemps wrote at least seven and, again, none for piano.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mozart and Beethoven were trained as pianists so it was natural to write music predominantly meant for their own performance, hence more piano concertos than violin concertos.

Mozart had some facility on violin, even though he "majored" in piano, hence 5 violin concertos too.

Paganini, on the other hand (no pun intended) WAS absolutely a violinist, so he wrote violin concertos and no piano concertos.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

There have been far more virtuoso pianists than violinists throughout history, I would assume. More demand for piano concertos therefore. Also, more composers played the piano than the violin.

That said, personally I prefer violin concertos - I could easily pick ten violin concertos that I like better than any piano concerto.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Paganini, in fact, could hardly play the piano at all. He worked out his compositions aided by a guitar, which he played very well indeed.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Paganini wrote at least five violin concertos and none for piano that I know of. Vieuxtemps wrote at least seven and, again, none for piano.


Good point! Love both of them.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I prefer piano concertos, in general I find the sound of a piano very pleasing. Violins in a lead role have more of a tendency to sound whiny, schmaltzy or a little 'off' in terms of pitch or intonation. 

There are still quite a few violin concertos I really enjoy such as Bach's, Bartok's, Brahms etc.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Although I love both, if I had to choose, it would be the violin concerto!


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I prefer violin concertos too. It's the electric guitar in the past, invented to create a blast of shredding notes.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Although I love both, if I had to choose, it would be the piano concertos .


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Maybe piano concertos are more popular because the piano can produce both melody and harmony, whereas the violin is primarily a melodic instrument. Perhaps the piano's ability to sustain chords makes it better suited for solo display. 

That's just a guess, though...and I must admit that I am biased because piano is my instrument!


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## GodotsArrived (Jan 12, 2017)

The answer is pretty simple: The tonal range of a piano is vastly broader than that of a violin. (Hint: Why do you think the majority of violin concertos are written in a single key (D)? The open strings of the instrument -- GDAE -- resonate best with the D string and produce a naturally brilliant sound that using other keys struggle to match. The piano, obviously, doesn't have this limitation.)


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

GodotsArrived said:


> The answer is pretty simple: The tonal range of a piano is vastly broader than that of a violin. (Hint: Why do you think the majority of violin concertos are written in a single key (D)? The open strings of the instrument -- GDAE -- resonate best with the D string and produce a naturally brilliant sound that using other keys struggle to match. The piano, obviously, doesn't have this limitation.)


Are the open strings a bug or a feature though? A piano has no great special affinity for any key while with a violin one can take advantage of the fact that the open strings can be used in cool ways.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

There are also plenty of composers who wrote more VC than PC. I don't think the number itself is a big matter. For me, the thing is, in a VC we work with one orchestra and one solo instrument which has the same timbre and the same way to play as a big part of the orchestra; while in a PC, we almost have two orchestras, which sharply different sounds and ways of playing.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Bettina said:


> Maybe piano concertos are more popular because the piano can produce both melody and harmony, whereas the violin is primarily a melodic instrument. Perhaps the piano's ability to sustain chords makes it better suited for solo display.
> 
> That's just a guess, though...and I must admit that I am biased because piano is my instrument!


Mine too, but I don't think you're (necessarily!) biased. While I have no data to support this my guess would be that, across the musicmaking world at all levels, there probably always have been more pianists than violinists and that this has a lot to do with there being a higher tally of piano concertos.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, in most houses in the 18th-19th centuries would you be more likely to find a fine piano or a fine violin?

Pianos were all over the place. Violins were not. So composers set their sights on the more popular instrument.

Still I have hope that Chopin wil be resurrected, reconsider and write a violin concerto. My first letter went unanswered.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I like both but -- no offense to any violinists -- he piano is capable of more. More complicates harmonies, more simultaneous voices, more brilliant runs. For a violinist, a triple stop is pretty much it -- and successive double and triple stops tend to sound forced. Violin tone can be much sweeter and more beautiful, but the piano is greatly more versatile -- also a bravura piano concerto is much more spectacular to the average concertgoer.


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## GodotsArrived (Jan 12, 2017)

Dedalus said:


> Are the open strings a bug or a feature though? A piano has no great special affinity for any key while with a violin one can take advantage of the fact that the open strings can be used in cool ways.


Surely they're neither a bug nor a feature? The more limited range is simply a reality. Like I said, there's a reason VCs tend to be written in the key of D. They sound better. You don't have this "limitation" on a piano, hence it allows the composer a broader palette from which to create. Yes, some composers have written more VCs than PCs but there's always an exception that proves the rule. And we are talking generalisations here, at least on a fundamental level. I'm not saying I prefer one to the other but simply pointing out a basic sonic reality.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I love both, like most people, I presume. The difference is that a piano concerto I don't like bores me to sleep, while a violin concerto I don't like annoys me to a great rage!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

MarkW said:


> I like both but -- no offense to any violinists -- he piano is capable of more. More complicates harmonies, more simultaneous voices, more brilliant runs. For a violinist, a triple stop is pretty much it -- and successive double and triple stops tend to sound forced. Violin tone can be much sweeter and more beautiful, but the piano is greatly more versatile -- also a bravura piano concerto is much more spectacular to the average concertgoer.


What you write is subjective and you are entitled to your opinion, but I could easily take the other side with an enthusiast's passion.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Xaltotun said:


> I love both, like most people, I presume. The difference is that a piano concerto I don't like bores me to sleep, while a violin concerto I don't like annoys me to a great rage!


I agree. I would say that the same is true of the performance itself.

A bad performance of a piano concerto is painful but not necessarily excruciating. A bad performance of a violin concerto, on the other hand, is utter torture! The squeaks and off-key intonation are agonizing.

Amateur performances of virtuosic violin concertos could be used to extract confessions from criminals! :lol:


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I prefer piano concertos for some of the reasons already mentioned, but thank God Beethoven and Brahms each wrote a violin concerto. They are among the pinnacles of classical music creation and were the reason I got hooked on classical music at age 8.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would always prefer to hear a well-played violin concerto than piano concerto.

I'm quite satisfied with the concerto efforts by Sibelius, Bartok, Beethoven, Berg, Prokofiev and Brahms for the violin.

Well-performed, they move me more than piano concertos do.

For the piano, I prefer chamber music and solo sonatas.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Bettina said:


> I agree. I would say that the same is true of the performance itself.
> 
> A bad performance of a piano concerto is painful but not necessarily excruciating. A bad performance of a violin concerto, on the other hand, is utter torture! The squeaks and off-key intonation are agonizing.
> 
> Amateur performances of virtuosic violin concertos could be used to extract confessions from criminals! :lol:


Sorry to go off-topic, but there may be something worse than bad violin performances  (No disrespect to Russia; well-played, it has a wonderful anthem):


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## GodotsArrived (Jan 12, 2017)

hpowders said:


> What you write is subjective and you are entitled to your opinion, but I could easily take the other side with an enthusiast's passion.


Actually, he's not being subjective. See my post(s) above. The greater range of a piano is simply a fact. That doesn't mean you have to prefer the piano but it does mean that it offers composers, as I said, a much broader palette from which to paint.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> Why are violin concertos not as common as piano concertos?
> 
> Mozart had 27 PCs and only 5 VCs, Beethoven had 5 PCs and only 1 VCs. Did any composer write more VCs than PCs? Could it be VCs are more difficult technically to write?


No matter - Vivaldi had 100 VCs so it's equal.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I will take the violin concerto over pcs any day - much as I love pcs. Top flight pianists more or less all sound the same to my ears - superb - but I couldnt tell the difference.
Violinists are another matter - Heiftez has his own sound - so does Oistrakh. I just think the violin is more interesting and expressive in a concerto than the piano - the violin also seems to have so many amazing colours and sounds than the piano - harmonics, vibrato etc.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

stomanek said:


> I will take the violin concerto over pcs any day - much as I love pcs. Top flight pianists more or less all sound the same to my ears - superb - but I couldnt tell the difference.
> Violinists are another matter - Heiftez has his own sound - so does Oistrakh. I just think the violin is more interesting and expressive in a concerto than the piano - the violin also seems to have so many amazing colours and sounds than the piano - harmonics, vibrato etc.


Once I read a quote - "The piano reveals the mind of the composer while the violin reveals the soul." For those who prefers VCs over PCs could be listening to different things or vice versa.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

They could indeed, but - sorry - that quote is a load of hooey.


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## MadMusicist (Jan 14, 2017)

I like both VCs and PCs, but I think there's a unique kind of beauty to feature an instrument that is not part of the orchestra itself. This, combined with the capacities of the piano as even just as a solo instrument, allows piano concertos to have the type of breadth and depth that they have.


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