# Mozart's Slow Movements: Symphony vs Piano Concerto



## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I'm curious if anyone else agrees with my general assertion that Mozart's piano concerto slow movements seem a little more inspired than his symphonies? Of course, the symphonies are genius too but I just think maybe to a little lesser degree. I haven't repeatedly listened to all of his symphonies yet but I mostly prefer the concertos to the ones i've heard. Maybe the piano in combination with the orchestra allowed his genius to express itself more than just the orchestra alone? To give a few examples: the 20th, 21st, 23 and 9th piano concertos all are just sublime. And there's many others if I were to go through them. I feel Mozart's symphonies i've heard don't approach that level as often. To throw out another example, in my opinion the 40th symphony's slow movement is weaker than these other pieces. Any opinions on this piece or my overall premise here?

Again, I feel kinda guilty even writing this post but i'll repeat that I LOVE mozart's symphonies and this is all relatively speaking, since Mozart is a hero of mine and blows my mind every time i listen to him.

And to add one more note, is the simple answer to this question that Mozart wrote more piano concertos during his later mature period?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Mozart's greatness in the realm of piano concertos is uncontested. They are extraordinarily inventive, refined, and interesting. Often given to very interesting variations of standard concerto structural practice and interesting deformations of normative sonata form procedures, they seem to me to be greater than the symphonies, although the symphonies have their own grand moments.

I'm glad you mentioned the 9th Concerto, it's among my favorites in the group.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't know about the rest, but I love the second movement of symphonies 29,38,39, and 41 very much. The difference in quality has a pretty simple explanation: The majority of his symphonies(1-30) are early works, while the majority of his piano concertos (11-27) are mature works.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think his piano concertos in general are more inspired than the symphonies, not just the slow movements. But speaking of slow movements, symphony #40's slow movement is particularly lovely among the symphonies imo.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> I think his piano concertos in general are more inspired than the symphonies, not just the slow movements. But speaking of slow movements, symphony #40's slow movement is particularly lovely among the symphonies imo.


The slow movement of #40 is IMPOSSIBLE! How could anybody have written this? Not to take anything away from the concertos, of course...


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

trazom said:


> I don't know about the rest, but I love the second movement of symphonies 29,38,39, and 41 very much. The difference in quality has a pretty simple explanation: The majority of his symphonies(1-30) are early works, while the majority of his piano concertos (11-27) are mature works.


I think this explanation pretty much covers it. The slow movements of the last three symphonies are flawless. Ah Mozart, I have been away too long, what with my Bach/Schubert discoveries and my current Wagner commitment. I need a week devoted to Mozart.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I know I'm in the minority here but I like his earlier Symphonies. Very melodic and energetic. He got more mellow and dense later on. I also happen to like PC #5. So yeah early Mozart is quite enjoyable for me. Though I like his later stuff as well. Especially the Piano Concertos.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> I know I'm in the minority here but I like his earlier Symphonies. Very melodic and energetic. He got more mellow and dense later on. I also happen to like PC #5. So yeah early Mozart is quite enjoyable for me. Though I like his later stuff as well. Especially the Piano Concertos.


If you like his earlier symphonies, you also might like his church/epistle sonatas. They're really nice, underrated works in the early Classical style.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

His symphonies have never impressed me much, including the slow movements. His concertos on the other hand (not just the piano ones) are good to excellent, with gorgeous slow movements.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Mozart is the master of the slow dance, and I agree with trazom that because his PC's were mainly composed in his maturity, we have more of their delicious and moving adagios and andantes. I have no favourite! But I find that if I'm coming to an unfamiliar work by Mozart, the slow movement is the hook that drags me in. Cuthbert Girdlestone (I know, cool name) describes in one of the PC's how the slow set emanates outwards into the other movements.

I couldn't choose a 'best' one, but there are some really interesting things going on in some of them, for example, in PC #22, the slow movement is like a wind concerto accompanied by piano. I've seen it described like this elsewhere too. And in his final piano concerto, the piano part is so halting and plain that it tears your heart out listening to it...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

KenOC said:


> The slow movement of #40 is IMPOSSIBLE! How could anybody have written this? Not to take anything away from the concertos, of course...


It kinda sorta often reminds me of the opening bars of Molly Malone...


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

KenOC said:


> The slow movement of #40 is IMPOSSIBLE! How could anybody have written this? Not to take anything away from the concertos, of course...


I'm a little confused on if your "How could anybody have written this?" is directed at me or the person you were quoting, but again I think the 40th's Andante is really great but just comparing it to a great piano concerto, i prefer the concerto. And I bring up the 40th compared to the 20-23 concertos because they're all mature pieces and considered the peak of his powers in that form.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

It is not just the slow movements, it is the entire works. Really, from the mid-late K 400's on, Symphonies or Concerti are in my estimation all 'formidable' and major works. The concerti are really just 'concertante' Symphonies with a piano included, though the piano is treated as a soloist.

I don't distinguish between the two genres, feeling those works are all one and the same quality.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

That's true. HC Robbins Landon listed more than 150 masterpieces Mozart wrote in his final ten years. More than one a month, which when you consider they were operas, concertos, sonatas, symphs, chamber music etc, it's a ludicrous rate of composition of gigantic proportions and diversity. Unparalleled. To actually copy it all out by hand would almost take as long.

And that's just his final ten years...


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

And here I was under the impression that the string quartets/quintets contained all the beautiful slow movements, with K 563 being the most glorious! 

The slow movements of the symphonies are remarkable, not only for their beauty, but also for their integral unity. No longer are the woodwinds brushed aside in favor of the strings, they are now given an equal role, at times even greater; and the end result, masterful. How can we not believe when confronted with the miraculous andante from the '_Prague_' symphony, or the heart-wrenching andante of the great G minor symphony, or the transcendent and atmospheric slow movement of the '_Jupiter_' symphony? The music is just a delight to listen to. Not to undermine the piano concerti in any way for they too are supreme works. I think one is bound to run out of adjectives, should any serious attempt is made to describe their beauty. :tiphat:


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## GodNickSatan (Feb 28, 2013)

The piano concertos are just ridiculously good. I agree that the comparison between the symphonies and the concertos is mostly to do with the time in which Mozart wrote them, as well as the sound of the piano just making everything sound more sweet. It's not one I hear talked as much, but the slow movement in the 18th piano concerto is really haunting.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

And Mozart was more intimately involved in his piano concertos because there were vehicles for personal performance as both the soloist and conductor, whereas his symphonies he was only a conductor.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

All I know is, the piano concertos--along with the operas--were what brought me to appreciate Mozart.

Many of his early, or less ambitious works, can be very predictable and uninteresting [but then again, every composer has a little bit of that sometimes!]. But the piano concertos, a complete album I purchased on an impulse, forced me to re-evaluate Mozart. These concertos are a monument of indefatigable inventiveness.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah, the PC's are huge, but the violin sonatas aren't far behind, far as I can see. Okay, take into consideration there's no orchestra and the PC's are largely symphonic in scope, but for his piano chamber music, the violin sonatas contain a similarly "indefatigable inventiveness". 

But yeah, the 'conversion' music for Mozart is the PC's, which lead to all other things...


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