# Ives - Holidays Symphony



## RJMJR (Aug 7, 2013)

Listening to a recording by Bernstein. Is it me, or is this piece a bit disjointed?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

It is not the same as his other symphonic works in the sense that all of the movements are not necessarily meant to be played together - though they can be. Each movement is essentially a stand alone orchestral work.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Ives' Holidays Symphony is not a symphony in the traditional sense. It's a collection of four independent works that are linked by their programmatic connection. They're _not_ linked from a musical/thematic point of view. Furthermore, Ives was happy to have each of the "movements" be performed as free-standing works, apart from the others.

So it is disjointed if you're looking for what you'd typically find in a conventional symphony.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

RJMJR said:


> Listening to a recording by Bernstein. Is it me, or is this piece a bit disjointed?


No. It's not you. It's a hodge podge. No doubt about it. Sounds like the pieces were originally composed to each stand alone.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

hpowders said:


> No. It's not you. It's a hodge podge. No doubt about it. *Sounds like the pieces were originally composed to each stand alone.*


Yes. This is correct.

That said, Ives LOVED music with a "hodge podge" quality.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

JACE said:


> Yes. This is correct.
> 
> That said, Ives LOVED music with a "hodge podge" quality.


When I first heard this symphony I was so disappointed. There was absolutely no relationship among the movements and while I love the Jews Harp, since I live in ******* country, it's simply not enough to maintain my interest.

Ives wrote better things.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ives wrote, "There is no special musical connection among these four movements…which leads me to observe that quite a number of larger forms (symphonies, sonatas, suites, etc.) may not always necessarily form, or were originally intended to form, such a complete organic whole that the breath of unity is smothered all out if one or two movements are played separately sometimes.”


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

hpowders said:


> When I first heard this symphony I was so disappointed. There was absolutely no relationship among the movements and while I love the Jews Harp, since I live in ******* country, it's simply not enough to maintain my interest.
> 
> *Ives wrote better things.*


Hmm. I hear 'em differently. I think the works that make up the _Holidays Symphony_ are some of Ives' absolute best.

Have you heard versions other than Bernstein's? I MUCH prefer MTT or Ormandy. The culminating moments of "Thanksgiving and Forefathers' Day" move me to tears. In my mind, that choral peroration echoes Beethoven's Ninth. It's _that _great.

Others' mileage may vary, of course.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

JACE said:


> Hmm. I hear 'em differently. I think the works that make up the _Holidays Symphony_ are some of Ives' absolute best.
> 
> Have you heard versions other than Bernstein's? I MUCH prefer MTT or Ormandy. The culminating moments of "Thanksgiving and Forefathers' Day" move me to tears. In my mind, that choral peroration echoes Beethoven's Ninth. It's _that _great.
> 
> Others' mileage may vary, of course.


I have it on Naxos. I think the conductor was Sinclair? I like parts of it, but only one or two movements at a time.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree the _Holidays Symphony_ is right up there with the best of Ives compositions. When asked to define a masterpiece Stravinsky named the second movement "Decoration Day" of Ives_ Holidays Symphony_. (Which at the time only existed as a stand alone tone poem).

If one prefers just a movement or two that is fine, it is not necessarily supposed to be listened to all at once. I like all the movements but sometimes just like to listen to them individually, and sometimes all of it at once.

Though admittedly the title is a little misleading I think it is a unique work that should be taken for what it is. Saying it is disappointing due to a lack of thematic continuity is a bit like saying a Piano Concerto is disappointing because it is not an Opera.


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