# Avant-garde pop artists?



## PresenTense (May 7, 2016)

Do you have any recommendations?

I found a good album from this year called "Blood Bitch" by Jenny Hval and it's pretty good to me. It has ambient sounds, weird textures and sounds and it is interesting to me. You might like it too.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Great idea for a thread. I was about to post another thread idea which I won't reveal the title of but it's roughly in this dimension. I imagine if people cared they could fill up this thread. That's the problem with starting a thread, you have to have the courage that few will post to it.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Something about "avant-garde pop" seems contradictory to me.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think the following artists have elements of "avant garde pop"

The Beatles
Velvet Underground
Frank Zappa
Captain Beefheart
The Melvins
Brian Eno
Mr. Bungle
David Lynch
Maja Osojnik

Brian Eno - Third Uncle


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Maja Osojnik is amazing, but I'm not sure it's popular music?

David Byrne/Brian Eno
Kevin Gilbert
Imogen Heap
Peter Gabriel
Mike Keneally
Adrian Belew
Peter Hammill
Marco Minnemann


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Maja Osojnik is amazing, but I'm not sure it's popular music?


Like some of the other artists on my list I think her music crosses over into more than one genre. I would classify this as avant-garde pop.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I gotta find somewhere to buy her CD, so it doesn't cost me 28 dollars.

Bob Drake is another amazing avant pop artist.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> Marco Minnemann


it seems that this kind of stuff (I think that Zappa was the first to do it on The dangerous kitchen and another piece on The man from utopia) where the music follows the voice has become a genre in itself. I've heard a lot of similar things.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

norman bates said:


> it seems that this kind of stuff (I think that Zappa was the first to do it on The dangerous kitchen and another piece on The man from utopia) where the music follows the voice has become a genre in itself. I've heard a lot of similar things.


I'd say the jazz cats did it first. But Marco does a lot of other amazing stuff as well.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> I'd say the jazz cats did it first. But Marco does a lot of other amazing stuff as well.


Really, do you know any example? I can think only of vocalese right now but that's not the same thing.

By the way, since you're a fan of Mike Keneally, I have never listened any of his albums, what are his best works?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

norman bates said:


> By the way, since you're a fan of Mike Keneally, I have never listened any of his albums, what are his best works?


Mike now has a large catalogue of high quality releases, so there is a lot to choose from depending on your listening preferences. Albums such as Hat, Boil That Dust Speck, Sluggo, Dancing, and Scambot 1 & 2 are all double album length multi directional prog (with a small p) rock extravaganzas loaded with great tunes and instrumentals. All very entertaining listens. I've spent countless hours listening to all of these albums because the music is so good! For some of these, if you buy them from Mike's website, you have a choice between the single CD, or a deluxe edition. Since you are a jazz fan, I'd say start off with either Dancing or Scambot 1. Not that these are jazz albums, but I think you'll appreciate the arrangements and compositions. And if you like what you hear, then keep going.

There are some others with a more singular focus. The Universe Will Provide is an instrumental project with the Dutch Metropole Orkest. This turned out really nice, and is quite a satisfying listen. And there's Evidence of Humanity, a project with Marco Minnemann. Marco recorded a 51 minute improvised drum track, and Mike composed the music to go along with the drums. When I heard this, I was completely floored because the music Mike wrote is fantastic. And he was able to come up with 17 movements or individual compositions that all segue beautifully within the metric divisions of Marco's playing. Other well known musicians (Trey Gunn, Alex Machacek) also recorded their own versions to this drum track, but I wasn't as impressed wih the results.

And finally, the live release Bakin' At The Potato is a good introduction to Keneally's music. It's an excellent recording made with a versatile five piece band, excellent material, and comes with an accompanying DVD.

Here's a little taste from some of these albums.
















I hope this helps? Happy listening!


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## Retyc (May 10, 2016)

The closest thing to "pop" that is slightly "avantgarde" I know of is this:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^
Why is that avant garde? I don't hear anything cutting edge in the music, performance, or production. Avant garde is not a style or genre. It's a definition that pertains to innovation in the arts.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

when I think of avant-guarde pop, I think of some of the performance art like "Blue Man Group" and "Stomp"

as opposed to "hipster rock" which a lot of times really isn't that "avant" musically

I remember when I was in high school, everybody liked the Velvet Underground, but the real hipsters were in to John Cale (the bass player) and Nico and some of the VU gang's solo records. So you had the records for when hipsters came over, you could prove your hipness.

Van Der Graaf Generator was a real hipster band in the late 70s. you had to be REAL hip to have even heard of these guys...but then if you had a solo record by Peter Hammil, well, that was the real hipster calling card there


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

VDGG started out in the late 60s. They made some great music. Heavy rock with no guitarist. They had a sax player.


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## Retyc (May 10, 2016)

starthrower said:


> ^^^
> Why is that avant garde? I don't hear anything cutting edge in the music, performance, or production. Avant garde is not a style or genre. It's a definition that pertains to innovation in the arts.


I think the way in which the noisy ambient textures are blended with the instrumentals is pretty interesting... at least I'm not aware of any shoegaze/post-rock blerg that is vertically this dense and "organic"... 
and I didn't even claim it's actually "proper" avantgarde... but it's probably more foward looking than the gimmicky faux-novelty/complexity, quirky thingies that have been around for decades...


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

you guys want to hear a funny story? good. Because I'm telling one anyway...

When I was 14, I was in a ska band with some college guys and our band was going to be interviewed on the public radio station there in Houston. We were going to be on the "new wave" hour, but we had to get there early, so we show up during the "avant guarde" show. The KPFT studio was in a big house in the Montrose area of town, and so we walk in and there are some people with berets and goatees sitting in the reception area. 

there was also this strange, oscillating noise...it was like a white noise generator being run through a crazy filter or something. I was just a 14 year old kid, so I asked out loud "Man, what's making that F***ing noise?"

Al, the leader of our little band, just did a face palm. All the guys in berets and goatees were staring at me angrily

...apparently that "noise" WAS the avant guarde show! :lol:


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

starthrower said:


> VDGG started out in the late 60s. They made some great music. Heavy rock with no guitarist. They had a sax player.


Except on their best album, when they had Fripp.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

like I said, only the serious hipsters know Van Der Graaf Generator 

that's neat that a couple of you guys know about them

I remember their records being very hard to find, too.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Nate Miller said:


> like I said, only the serious hipsters know Van Der Graaf Generator
> 
> that's neat that a couple of you guys know about them
> 
> I remember their records being very hard to find, too.


If you want to be historically accurate, we were known as acid heads. Hipsters weren't invented yet.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

EdwardBast said:


> Except on their best album, when they had Fripp.


On a couple tunes, but House with No Door is my favorite song on that album.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Nate Miller said:


> when I think of avant-guarde pop, I think of some of the performance art like "Blue Man Group" and "Stomp"
> 
> as opposed to "hipster rock" which a lot of times really isn't that "avant" musically
> 
> ...


It was somewhat the same over here but I suppose VDGG and Peter Hammil were better known here. At least in our 'underground circle'. Albums were easily accessible.

I remember seeing Peter Hammil live in London in 1981 or so in the Hammersmith Odeon.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

starthrower said:


> On a couple tunes, but House with No Door is my favorite song on that album.


I meant Pawn Hearts, where he plays on everything. Guess we don't agree on what their best album is.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

How about PJ Harvey people. She's kind of avant garde


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

EdwardBast said:


> I meant Pawn Hearts, where he plays on everything. Guess we don't agree on what their best album is.


I don't really have an opinion on their "best" album. But I like H to He, and Still Life. Haven't listened to the others in a while.


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