# How do you deal with CD rot?



## Chordalrock

I sometimes buy CDs that were printed ten or even twenty years ago. They're not necessarily used, they may be CDs that were printed a long time ago and then not sold until I bought them. 

A few of them show black deterioration at one or two points on the edges. I've read that this is due to some sort of defect that allows oxygen and what not to erode the aluminum layer. The erosion will spread as time passes, ultimately causing read errors.

Would you return such CDs? Do sellers even accept returns if the CD is expected to be fine for another ten years (but not longer)?


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## TurnaboutVox

I discovered a few CDs that would no longer play properly, in 2012 as I was going through some rather neglected (at that time) corners of my CD collection. This was prior to ripping my collection to PC hard drive. The discs in question also had a bronze discolouration, as did some other discs which still played normally.

I contacted the manufacturers in each case where the recording had become distorted or unplayable, though not where there was just discolouration.

Hyperion said they knew about this problem which was limited to early CDs made at a single plant in the late 80s, and replaced everything that had deteriorated without quibble. They even did me a CD-R where the recording had been deleted from their commercial catalogue.

DG were sympathetic and acknowledged the problem, but could not replace the CDs as the material had been deleted. They offered me a single new DG CD by way of compensation, which was certainly better than nothing.

I guess the moral of this story is - when you buy a new CD, rip a copy to your hard drive in a lossless format such as FLAC, and back it up. You never know when you might lose the original.

Obviously, I don't know if you have the same problem, but it might be worth contacting the manufacturer(s) for advice. I suspect your position will depend on consumer law in your country, and for how long CDs sold are expected to remain 'fit for purpose' to use our present UK government's inelegant phrase.


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## ptr

I buy a lot of second hand CD's form all over the world, but have never received any "rotted" CD (A few with scratch marks, but nothing unsavable by ripping a copy to a hard drive), well at least not since the batch of mostly Hyperion disc's that was pressed by PDO and exchanged by good will by them (was this about 15 years ago? .. I had about 35 discs that all where exchanged but one, that was from a label that had gone bust, years later I was able to download rip of this disc)..

If I unknowingly bought a second hand disc that was rotted or scratched beyond recognition, I'd e-mail the seller and discuss the problem and probably return it to the seller for a refund! I refused, I'd never deal with them again!

/ptr


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## Morimur

Have never experienced this -- knock on wood.


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## Albert7

Seen it so I switched to downloading off iTunes now instead of CDs.


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## Chordalrock

Here's an example of what I mean. I have circled in red the area with the small black deterioration thing. This is a CD printed in 2008 - the damage may actually be something else than erosion, because it looks kind of different than the usual damage, more clear-cut, but it's the most noticeable example I could find with little effort and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a photo like this.


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## elgar's ghost

I had some discs 'bronze' over the years which I was led to believe was a sign of deterioration, but - fingers crossed - they still play OK.


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## PeterPowerPop

I have two badly bronzed CDs (see below). By the time I got around to putting my CD collection on the computer's hard drive, those two were unrippable.

Rather than go through the rigmarole of contacting record companies and waiting for whatever replies they were going to give, I simply went off to eBay and bought the same CDs again, but this time non-bronzed (and much cheaper than when I first bought them). Easy.

These were the two discs:


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## Albert7

PeterPowerPop said:


> I have two badly bronzed CDs (see below). By the time I got around to putting my CD collection on the computer's hard drive, those two were unrippable.
> 
> Rather than go through the rigmarole of contacting record companies and waiting for whatever replies they were going to give, I simply went off to eBay and bought the same CDs again, but this time non-bronzed (and much cheaper than when I first bought them). Easy.
> 
> These were the two discs:


That works well for single discs/recital albums if you have CD rot on an expensive box set I don't think this would work easily sadly enough.


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## brotagonist

I had Benjamin Britten's Cello Suites by Timothy Hugh on Hyperion. It started to turn a sepia colour, but it played just fine. I had never heard of bronzing, but I was concerned enough to trade it in back in the '90s, lest it should become defective.

I currently have the 3 CDs of Messiaen's Catalogue d'Oiseaux by Peter Hill on Unicorn-Kanchana. It has turned sepia-coloured, but it plays fine. I have stopped worrying. If I have to replace it, then so be it.


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## Woodduck

I haven't had a problem with "bronzed" discs becoming unplayable (yet), but have encountered another kind of rot, caused by foam inserts in boxed sets. When the foam gets old enough it deteriorates and can stick to the CD, and then somehow interacts with the top surface of the disc and causes a gradual, subtle rotting which keeps the CD from playing. When I buy used sets of unknown age I'm now alert to this problem.


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## Vaneyes

Chordalrock said:


> I sometimes buy CDs that were printed ten or even twenty years ago. They're not necessarily used, they may be CDs that were printed a long time ago and then not sold until I bought them.
> *
> A few of them show black deterioration at one or two points on the edges*. I've read that this is due to some sort of defect that allows oxygen and what not to erode the aluminum layer. The erosion will spread as time passes, ultimately causing read errors.
> 
> Would you return such CDs? Do sellers even accept returns if the CD is expected to be fine for another ten years (but not longer)?


On the edge and not affecting play? I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's probably harmless effect from the pressing.

This linked page describes "CD rot"--various discolorations and pin-prick holes that you can shine light through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot


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## Albert7

Vaneyes said:


> On the edge and not affecting play? I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's probably harmless effect from the pressing.
> 
> This linked page describes "CD rot"--various discolorations and pin-prick holes that you can shine light through.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot


That is awful... which is why I've been focused on ripping my CD's into lossless. I am sure that CDs are not foolproof over time but digital files I can copy endlessly which provide me a backup advantage.


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## Vaneyes

elgars ghost said:


> I had some discs 'bronze' over the years which I was led to believe was a sign of deterioration, but - fingers crossed - they still play OK.


I can't remember how many bronzed CDs I had...maybe ten. I was fortunate to be able to return all for exact recording replacement. A few didn't sound right, though IIRC they were all playable.

I've had maybe another ten CDs with non-bronze manufacturing defects that wouldn't allow all tracks to play properly. These, excepting one, were replaced by the retailers. A label replaced one CD when the retailer went out of business.

All of these instances, excepting one non-bronze new CD, pre-date online shopping.

All-in-all, I think the industry stands admirably and impressively behind its product. Considering the thousands of CDs that have gone through my hands, the defects are miniscule.:tiphat:


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## KenOC

Before people panic and run wild in the streets... In 30 years I've not lost a single commercial CD except by unwisely lending them out. CD-Rs, yes. I don't trust 'em, don't like 'em.

BTW the foam packed in some older multi-CD sets is a problem. Suggest you go though your collection and dump that foam!


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## PeterPowerPop

albertfallickwang said:


> That works well for single discs/recital albums if you have CD rot on an expensive box set I don't think this would work easily sadly enough.


Yep. CD rot/bronzing in a box set would be a bit gruesome. I guess at times like those it'd probably be best to whip out your best stationery and write to the record company with an eminently reasonable request.


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## Chordalrock

Vaneyes said:


> On the edge and not affecting play? I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's probably harmless effect from the pressing.
> 
> This linked page describes "CD rot"--various discolorations and pin-prick holes that you can shine light through.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot


I don't think I've seen it in newly printed CDs. And from the Wiki page (which I read before starting this thread):

"In CDs, the reflective layer is immediately beneath a thin protective layer of lacquer, and is also exposed at the edge of the disc. ... The reflective layer is typically aluminum, which reacts easily with several commonly encountered chemicals such as oxygen, sulphur, and certain ions carried by condensed water."

Sounds like it can spread.

There was also some better article on this but I've forgotten when I read it and where.


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## Phu Nguyen

Since I am a perfectionism, I would return the CDs back. But in some case, if that CD is rare, I would rather take it for myself.


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## bigshot

I have well over 10,000 CDs, and I haven't run across a CD that won't play yet. I've had a couple that turned a little brownish, but they still play fine.


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## Haydn man

Likewise, I have never had a problem with a CD and out of curiosity I looked at some of mine that date back to the mid eighties both classical and contemporary and all look like new. Some of the covers don't though


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## MoonlightSonata

THe only CD I've broken is when I tried to get it out of its case for the first time and it was stuck so fast it broke


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## ptr

I've still got the browning disc I had exchanged on a spindle in a cupboard in my workshop, did a quick test this morning and out of 32, 11 is not detected by the Pioneer PDS06 that I have there (and she plays the most scratched discs I ever seen), all are severely browned!

/ptr


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## Pip

bigshot said:


> I have well over 10,000 CDs, and I haven't run across a CD that won't play yet. I've had a couple that turned a little brownish, but they still play fine.


I would advise you to make CDR copies of any of your "a little brownish" discs, because there will come a day when they won't play any more.
The company to be hit the worst were Pearl/Opal. Many of there historical re-issue releases from the late 80's to the mid 90s have been affected like this. They admitted the problem and replaced the duds as long as stocks lasted.


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## TxllxT

You should also try your rotten CD out on different CD players. Some of them have better reading-error-control than others...


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## Albert7

I think that CD rot can be slowed down by using acid free sleeves or plastic cases?


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## techniquest

The only time I have ever had a problem with a CD (so far) is with an early ASV pressing of Khachaturian's 1st & 3rd symphonies (Tjeknavorian / Armenian PO). The disc would play but there was some really bad interference sounding similar to how a ton of fluff on a stylus would have on a vinyl record. The CD wouldn't rip so I ended up just throwing it away.


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## ptr

techniquest said:


> The only time I have ever had a problem with a CD (so far) is with an early ASV pressing of Khachaturian's 1st & 3rd symphonies (Tjeknavorian / Armenian PO). The disc would play but there was some really bad interference sounding similar to how a ton of fluff on a stylus would have on a vinyl record. The CD wouldn't rip so I ended up just throwing it away.


The next time this happens, remember not to throw the disc away, as it entitles You the right to own a copy of the recording and as such You can download it from the internet even if the source is illicit! 

/ptr


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## elgar's ghost

Although this isn't anything to do with disc rot, I remember once getting my new-ish copy of Sandinista! by the Clash off the shelf and on opening it up finding the second disc was in pieces like a broken mirror. As I am very careful with putting discs back in their cases and storing them safely I still have no idea whatsoever as to how this happened.


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## Antiquarian

Whenever I have a disc that skips or refuses to play, I try it out on my DVD player or Blu-Ray. Granted, this is due to superficial scratches on the discs, but it could be beneficial for bronzed discs too. It may have something to do with the lasers in the machine.


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## Albert7

Antiquarian said:


> Whenever I have a disc that skips or refuses to play, I try it out on my DVD player or Blu-Ray. Granted, this is due to superficial scratches on the discs, but it could be beneficial for bronzed discs too. It may have something to do with the lasers in the machine.


Blu ray players have more accurate due to the blue laser which is better than CD players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laser


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## Vaneyes

To confuse matters, some labels had some of their CDs purposely made with a yellow or bronze or gold tinge. The one I have is from Sony, released in 1993. The printed CD side is light bronze, the other a deep gold.


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## Antiquarian

I have a few "novelty" limited run CDs where the disc substrate is 24k gold instead of aluminium. I don't know why, except that gold does not oxidize, and consequently does not rot?


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## Fox

I have to side with the other members who have not experienced this. Living in the UK a lot of the CDs I seek just were not released here and I import on average 20 CDs a month new and used (unless I am ill or away) form the States and Canada though Amazon and eBay.

I have never encountered this phenomenon nor had I heard of it. Perhaps those CDs were defective or inferior from the start? Either way anyone who has had the misfortune of "CD Rot" you have my sympathies.

As I am new to the forum I had yet to mention my chronic insomnia...

CD rot...










Sweet dreams.​
Fox


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## Albert7

CD rot is very much a limited problem to be honest. I never have encountered it except once out of thousands of discs I have viewed or played.

Scratched CD's on the other hand... which is why I love my iTunes downloading.


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## bigshot

I have tens of thousands of disks, and I've never run across anything that became unplayable.


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## Fox

bigshot said:


> I have tens of thousands of disks, and I've never run across anything that became unplayable.


Ditto.

:tiphat:


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## Albert7

Fox said:


> Ditto.
> 
> :tiphat:


Same with our public library CD's


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## jtbell

Chordalrock said:


> Here's an example of what I mean. I have circled in red the area with the small black deterioration thing. This is a CD printed in 2008


In this case, it's not a problem because it's at the very edge of the disc, and the data on the disc doesn't extend out that far. The bad of "shinier" surface on the disc, closest to the edge, has no recorded content at all.

With an LP, the recording runs from the outside edge inward; with a CD, the recording runs from the inside edge outward. The outermost section of the disc is used only if the total length is near the maximum for a CD, i.e. about 80 minutes.


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## bigshot

Back in the laserdisc days, laser rot was a real issue. I had a disk that had rotted to the point where playing it just produced a screen full of snow. If you looked at the disk itself it was fine... no spots, no bronzing. I suspect that the spot on that CD is just a manufacturing defect that doesn't affect the playing. I doubt it is going to get worse.


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## Guest

I have also one cd with a damaged surface ( under the protectionlayer),a black spot in the metal.I was a litlle worried but the cd played perfectly.


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## Vaneyes

Don't fret too much about CD rot. Lots of other things can happen. For instance, today I received the wrong "new" CD. The jewel case and printed material are correct. :lol:


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## Antiquarian

bigshot said:


> Back in the laserdisc days, laser rot was a real issue. I had a disk that had rotted to the point where playing it just produced a screen full of snow. If you looked at the disk itself it was fine... no spots, no bronzing. I suspect that the spot on that CD is just a manufacturing defect that doesn't affect the playing. I doubt it is going to get worse.


I too had this problem with early laserdics, and it was explained to me that laserdisc video signals were anologue, not digital (like VHS) that had the advantages of smooth forward and reverse scanning, but failed in picture quality.


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## Albert7

CD rot is not an issue with any new releases from 2010... So if you are worried you can also buy the reissued album after that time period.


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## Autocrat

One rule is not to use CD-R for backing up anything. It's a different technology than authored/printed CDs and these disks generally have a useful life of a few years. Now may be a good time to go and check if your CD-R backups still work.


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## Albert7

Autocrat said:


> One rule is not to use CD-R for backing up anything. It's a different technology than authored/printed CDs and these disks generally have a useful life of a few years. Now may be a good time to go and check if your CD-R backups still work.


CD-R's are fine... there is nothing wrong with CD-R if you use good quality discs.


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## Autocrat

albertfallickwang said:


> CD-R's are fine... there is nothing wrong with CD-R if you use good quality discs.


True. Well, sort of. The problem is working out which disks are good quality, you can't tell by the price or the brand name, and the dye colour is faked all over the place so you can't even use that as an indicator. Most importantly, you won't know whether they are good quality unless they don't go bad after a number of years, at which point it may be too late.

Seriously, there are far better options available now.


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## Albert7

Autocrat said:


> True. Well, sort of. The problem is working out which disks are good quality, you can't tell by the price or the brand name, and the dye colour is faked all over the place so you can't even use that as an indicator. Most importantly, you won't know whether they are good quality unless they don't go bad after a number of years, at which point it may be too late.
> 
> Seriously, there are far better options available now.


One solution is to burn CD-R as needed and backup FLAC/ALAC files on a hard drive then.


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## SixFootScowl

Just received a set with disks that look bronze color but the lazer side is silver. Assunder would not rip the last two tracks, so I loaded them into Audacity and am saving them as MP3s from there. I wonder if this is a case of bronzing or CD rot?

Also, thought there was a recent thread from 2017 about this but could not find it.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> Just received a set with disks that look bronze color but the lazer side is silver. Assunder would not rip the last two tracks, so I loaded them into Audacity and am saving them as MP3s from there. I wonder if this is a case of bronzing or CD rot?
> 
> Also, thought there was a recent thread from 2017 about this but could not find it.


The other thread is on the Hi-Fi forum.

Are these CDs you have new? Who is the publisher and where were they made? If they are new and if you've having trouble reading them and that is unusual for your CD drive, you probably should see if you can get an exchange. Having said that, some CDs are intended to have a bronze/gold colored label side.

I have some CDs dating back to 1984 and many from the 1980s, but I've never had a commercially pressed audio CD fail on me. It probably helps that I don't have any 1980s PDO UK or Nimbus UK discs though. Those seem to be the most troublesome ones. I did have a PC CD-ROM from the mid-1990s that shattered into many tiny pieces in my computer's CD drive many years back, but that's the only failure of a commercially pressed CD/DVD that I've ever experienced.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I have over 1000 CDs and some of them are 30-years old. Not a single one has any rot. Lucky?


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> The other thread is on the Hi-Fi forum.
> 
> Are these CDs you have new? Who is the publisher and where were they made? If they are new and if you've having trouble reading them and that is unusual for your CD drive, you probably should see if you can get an exchange. Having said that, some CDs are intended to have a bronze/gold colored label side.
> 
> I have some CDs dating back to 1984 and many from the 1980s, but I've never had a commercially pressed audio CD fail on me. It probably helps that I don't have any 1980s PDO UK or Nimbus UK discs though. Those seem to be the most troublesome ones. I did have a PC CD-ROM from the mid-1990s that shattered into many tiny pieces in my computer's CD drive many years back, but that's the only failure of a commercially pressed CD/DVD that I've ever experienced.


This is a used set of Nuova Era disks. There is a cloudy look in the bronze/gold colored label side.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> This is a used set of Nuova Era disks. There is a cloudy look in the bronze/gold colored label side.


It sounds like you could have some bronzed CDs, but it's hard to say for sure without looking at them. Is there any information on the disc matrix indicating who made the disc or where it was made? Maybe an IFPI code? I'm not too familiar with the Nuova Era label or who made their discs.

I'd try to get a refund if you can or else make a backup copy of the CDs while they are still readable by your CD-ROM. I'd either save the rips losslessly or just burn it to a CD-R. Of course, make sure the rips don't have read errors in them that cause degraded audio.


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> It sounds like you could have some bronzed CDs, but it's hard to say for sure without looking at them. Is there any information on the disc matrix indicating who made the disc or where it was made? Maybe an IFPI code? I'm not too familiar with the Nuova Era label or who made their discs.
> 
> I'd try to get a refund if you can or else make a backup copy of the CDs while they are still readable by your CD-ROM. I'd either save the rips losslessly or just burn it to a CD-R. Of course, make sure the rips don't have read errors in them that cause degraded audio.


I am listening through to see if it is okay. I could have gotten a 2008 set of the same opera for a dollar more. But this was advertized as "Very Good, Discs like new".

Disk 1's hub says "Manufactured in Italy by OPTI.ME.S 991950000466 1910" The 12 digit number changes by 1 for each of the other two disks.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> I am listening through to see if it is okay. I could have gotten a 2008 set of the same opera for a dollar more. But this was advertized as "Very Good, Discs like new".
> 
> Disk 1's hub says "Manufactured in Italy by OPTI.ME.S 991950000466 1910" The 12 digit number changes by 1 for each of the other two disks.


According to the Wikipedia article about CD Bronzing, Opti.Me.S Italy discs are prone to bronzing along with the better known PDO UK and Nimbus discs. So, yeah, your discs are probably bronzing. If there are no audible problems with your discs, I would rip them and burn them to CD-R because who knows how long those discs will remain playable. Either that or see if you can get a refund/replacement from the seller/manufacturer.

If this is an 1980s disc, it's possible that it was mastered with a pre-emphasis. Ripping the CD normally will not properly apply the de-emphasis. Does the disc sound like it has too much treble when you play it back on the PC? If not, it's probably okay or your ears aren't sensitive to the increased treble so you may not need to worry about it.


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> According to the Wikipedia article about CD Bronzing, Opti.Me.S Italy discs are prone to bronzing along with the better known PDO UK and Nimbus discs. So, yeah, your discs are probably bronzing. If there are no audible problems with your discs, I would rip them and burn them to CD-R because who knows how long those discs will remain playable. Either that or see if you can get a refund/replacement from the seller/manufacturer.
> 
> If this is an 1980s disc, it's possible that it was mastered with a pre-emphasis. Ripping the CD normally will not properly apply the de-emphasis. Does the disc sound like it has too much treble when you play it back on the PC? If not, it's probably okay or your ears aren't sensitive to the increased treble so you may not need to worry about it.


Thanks for all your help. The disk clearly had problems ripping the last tracks. I had to manually save (using a music editor) the last two tracks of the first disk, which was in the same side of the double jewel case as the booklet, and the last track of the second disk, which was on the reverse side of the center part of the jewel case. Disk 3 was farthest from the booklet and ripped fine. I think it is best that I complain that the set is defective, even though i got what appears to be a clean rip. See if I can get my money back or at least a partial refund. Not talking a lot of money here. $4 for the CDs and $3 shipping, but nonetheless, it was misrepresented though not on purpose by the seller. I will link the Wikipedia article and quote the specific about the disk manufacturer to them too.

I had another set that did this, also Nuevo Era and made by Opti.Me.S, which was refunded in total. That one I could not even get the last track to load in Audacity, and the last few tracks that did rip had static on them.


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## SixFootScowl

So, since I was burned twice on this Nuevo Era label with bronzing disks, here is some advice.

This is what I bought:









I should have gotten this one, but always hate to because the newer set artwork on these Nuevo Era sets basically sucks as you can see, but in this case the ugly set is 19 years newer and should not be subject to bronzing. These ugly covers are pretty easy to spot and there are a number of reissued Nuevo Era sets like this. So, if Nuevo Era, go for the ugly set.









Or chance it and maybe you will get good disks or a refund. With my Paisiello Nina set, the seller refunded me and said not to bother sending the set back. So I bought an ugly set and put those disks into the case from the nice but bronzed set.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> So, since I was burned twice on this Nuevo Era label with bronzing disks, here is some advice.
> 
> This is what I bought:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should have gotten this one, but always hate to because the newer set artwork on these Nuevo Era sets basically sucks as you can see, but in this case the ugly set is 19 years newer and should not be subject to bronzing. These ugly covers are pretty easy to spot and there are a number of reissued Nuevo Era sets like this. So, if Nuevo Era, go for the ugly set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or chance it and maybe you will get good disks or a refund. With my Paisiello Nina set, the seller refunded me and said not to bother sending the set back. So I bought an ugly set and put those disks into the case from the nice but bronzed set.


All my Nuevo Era sets are bronzed but they play like new. 
As for the covers, they had some nasty ones but they brought a wide range for everyone taste in music.
( A.K.A opera)


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> All my Nuevo Era sets are bronzed but they play like new.
> As for the covers, they had some nasty ones but they brought a wide range for everyone taste in music.
> ( A.K.A opera)


Interesting thing is that this Barber of Seville set did play fine on my computer, but the ripping was the problem. My Nina set would not play right and would not rip, even could not load the last track in Audacity for a simply file save off the music editor, so the Nina set was in worse shape.

We'll see what happens, sent a message to seller about it and said I might be willing to take a partial refund but otherwise can send the set back.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> This is what I bought:


There's a Fiat logo on that CD cover. No wonder it failed!

It has been said that the interaction between the booklet and defective discs are what cause the bronzing. Thus, perhaps that is why the disc that was furthest removed from the booklet worked fine. That's just a guess though.

Have you ever tried a program like Exact Audio Copy to try to rip your CDs? Some people like that one. Also, some CD-ROM drives are better than others at reading discs. I'm not really sure which ones on the market today are the best ones for ripping or if there are any firmware mods that can lead to better ripping results. There's really only a handful of companies that make all the PC CD/DVD/BR drives on the market. I've always had a preference for the full-sized 5 1/4" CD-ROMs compared to the laptop style ones that are common on desktops/USB portable drives today. Having said that, I'm sure some of those laptop style drives are pretty good too.


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> There's a Fiat logo on that CD cover. No wonder it failed!


:lol:



Klassik said:


> It has been said that the interaction between the booklet and defective discs are what cause the bronzing. Thus, perhaps that is why the disc that was furthest removed from the booklet worked fine. That's just a guess though.


That's what I was thinking based on the Wikipedia write-up.



Klassik said:


> Have you ever tried a program like Exact Audio Copy to try to rip your CDs? Some people like that one. Also, some CD-ROM drives are better than others at reading discs. I'm not really sure which ones on the market today are the best ones for ripping or if there are any firmware mods that can lead to better ripping results. There's really only a handful of companies that make all the PC CD/DVD/BR drives on the market. I've always had a preference for the full-sized 5 1/4" CD-ROMs compared to the laptop style ones that are common on desktops/USB portable drives today. Having said that, I'm sure some of those laptop style drives are pretty good too.


My CD drive is from a 2006 HP Pavillion computer. Yeah. Maybe I should invest in a new drive or see if my son's computer can rip it clean. He just build a new computer so brand new CD drive. It's an 
Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA Internal OEM Optical Drive.

I am not familiar with Exact Audio Copy. I don't see it on the Linux software manager feature, so it must be an outside program.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> My CD drive is from a 2006 HP Pavillion computer. Yeah. Maybe I should invest in a new drive or see if my son's computer can rip it clean. He just build a new computer so brand new CD drive. It's an
> Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA Internal OEM Optical Drive.
> 
> I am not familiar with Exact Audio Copy. I don't see it on the Linux software manager feature, so it must be an outside program.


The Asus DRW-24B1ST gets as good of reviews as any other drive on Newegg so that might be a good one if that's what he has. Give it a shot and see how it works.

CD-ROM drives do seem to age a bit as they get used so a drive from 2006 may not be in the best shape if it's been used a lot. The desktop I use most of the time is also a 2006 first-gen Core2Duo computer and the TSSTcorp (Toshiba-Samsung) DVD-RW drive that came with it is still holding up fine. It's possible that a 2006 computer may only have parallel ATA, but I'm thinking it should have SATA. If it does have SATA, installing a new drive should be cheap and easy. Of course, you could always use an external USB drive as well.

I didn't realize you use Linux. Here's a list of Linux CD rippers on Wikipedia that you might want to try. I use Linux occasionally so I'd be curious to know which programs work best. I know I've used K3b for CD burning, but I'm not sure if I've ever used it for ripping. Exact Audio Copy is a Windows program, but it supposedly works in Linux through Wine. Getting that to work could be a bit tricky though.


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> The Asus DRW-24B1ST gets as good of reviews as any other drive on Newegg so that might be a good one if that's what he has. Give it a shot and see how it works.


That should be the one he has because he built the computer himself. It apparently is a pretty nice computer (specs he gave me):

OS: Linux Mint 18.1 Cinnamon
Motherboard: ASUS LGA1151 DDR4 M.2 HDMI DVI USB3.0 H110 MicroATX
CPU: Intel Core i5 2.70GHz quad core
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB DDR4
OS drive: 120GB Sandisk SSD
Data drive: 2TB Seagate BarraCuda HDD
PSU: EVGA 450W
Case: Thermaltake VERSA H15 Micro ATX

I just have to wait for a chance to have him try ripping the CD as he is pretty busy with school (info tech student).



Klassik said:


> CD-ROM drives do seem to age a bit as they get used so a drive from 2006 may not be in the best shape if it's been used a lot. The desktop I use most of the time is also a 2006 first-gen Core2Duo computer and the TSSTcorp (Toshiba-Samsung) DVD-RW drive that came with it is still holding up fine. It's possible that a 2006 computer may only have parallel ATA, but I'm thinking it should have SATA. If it does have SATA, installing a new drive should be cheap and easy. Of course, you could always use an external USB drive as well.


It probably would not be a bad idea for me to get a new optical drive. I kind of like the idea of the auxilary one that plugs into USB, though it can be a pain to use if it moves around on me. But then I could use it on my ASUS netbook.



Klassik said:


> I didn't realize you use Linux. Here's a list of Linux CD rippers on Wikipedia that you might want to try. I use Linux occasionally so I'd be curious to know which programs work best. I know I've used K3b for CD burning, but I'm not sure if I've ever used it for ripping. Exact Audio Copy is a Windows program, but it supposedly works in Linux through Wine. Getting that to work could be a bit tricky though.


Yep, I love Linux. Using Mint Mate 17.3. I use Assunder to rip, Brasero to burn and to make DVD image files, and Audacity for music editing (what little I know and do). I also sometimes use SoundConverter which is handy for resizing files or converting say wav files to mp3. And I use VLC media player for music and videos. Brasero made an image file out of a DVD that Microsoft would not even let me copy. But my daughter got the Disney Narnia and apparently she and her brother could not get Brasero to image it. I also use Handbrake to downsize video image files from typically 8GB to 2GB and that way I can skip the menus and burn in the English subtitles.

I tried other programs from the Linux software center for ripping CDs and DVDs but found them too hard to figure out without having to look up detailed instructions, so gave up on them.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> It probably would not be a bad idea for me to get a new optical drive. I kind of like the idea of the auxilary one that plugs into USB, though it can be a pain to use if it moves around on me. But then I could use it on my ASUS netbook.


I purchased a Pioneer USB Blu-Ray writer about five years ago and it's barely bigger than a jewel case! I can't say how the Pioneer works with ripping CDs as I really only use it with Blu-Ray discs though. PC Blu-Ray drives have never really taken off, but I do like having one so that I can copy large amounts of data cheaply.

If you're worried about losing a USB CD-ROM due to the small size, you could always buy a 5 1/4" drive and put it into a USB enclosure. I did this many years ago with a Pioneer PATA DVD burner and a FireWire enclosure. I assume they still make 5 1/4" USB enclosures. One advantage of the smaller ones though is that they are bus powered through USB so you don't need a separate power cord.

That computer looks good. I know a lot of Linux users really like Linux Mint. I do use Linux on occasion, but I wouldn't call myself an expert on Linux software outside of the big multi-platform programs like Audacity. DVDs, unlike CDs, are encrypted for copy protection so ripping them is usually not as simple of a process. There are programs that crack the encryption (and presumably there are ones for Linux) to allow you to make backups, but the legality of this is a gray area so I won't post any links about it here in case the mods don't like that. You can search for it on the web and find it pretty easily though.


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## SixFootScowl

^ I am thinking more that the auxiliary DVD drive requires two hands vs the one mounted in the tower. Definitely want bus powered by USB, not a separate power cord. Good things to keep in mind.

We did get a USB enclosure to make an external hard drive of one pulled out of a computer tower, so they must still be available, though that was narrower than a DVD drive would be.

I think the companies don't want copies made for other people, but all I do is make a file on my computer so I don't have to hassle with pulling a DVD case off the shelf and inserting the disk in the drive, etc. But maybe the companies want me to play the disk so it will eventually wear out and hope I buy a new copy.


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## bigshot

Klassik said:


> I purchased a Pioneer USB Blu-Ray writer about five years ago and it's barely bigger than a jewel case! I can't say how the Pioneer works with ripping CDs as I really only use it with Blu-Ray discs though.


I use an external blu-ray burner to rip CDs. It is MUCH faster than the DVD drive in my computer.


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## Klassik

bigshot said:


> I use an external blu-ray burner to rip CDs. It is MUCH faster than the DVD drive in my computer.


Interesting. Is your computer's internal DVD drive a 5.25" style drive or a laptop style one where the laser is built into the CD tray? Many/most PC manufacturers are putting laptop style DVD drives into desktop PCs now unfortunately. I guess it should also be asked if the external drive is based on a portable design or a full-sized drive. Theoretically, an internal 5.25" drive should rip CDs much faster than a portable drive. Most 5.25" drives can read at 48x or 52x (though they'll usually run somewhere below that), but I've never seen a laptop/portable style drive read faster than 24x.

If you're comparing two portable drives, the Blu-Ray burner may have a bigger cache than a DVD drive. That could explain the difference. Also, drive age/usage could be holding the internal drive back. Some DVD drives have something called Riplock which seemingly is a form of secret DVD copy protection, but I don't think that should impact CD ripping.

The internal 5.25" TSSTcorp DVD+-RW drive on my desktop is fast enough for ripping that I've never really bothered to try any other drives. I may experiment with my Pioneer Blu-Ray drive to see what happens, but I really doubt it'll be faster especially since it's only a USB 2.0 drive. The newer ones out now are USB 3.


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## SixFootScowl

Klassik said:


> The Asus DRW-24B1ST gets as good of reviews as any other drive on Newegg so that might be a good one if that's what he has. Give it a shot and see how it works.


I didn't realize that you gave a different drive number than the one my son listed: Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA Internal OEM Optical Drive.

At any rate, he just ripped the last two tracks on disk one of the bronzing disks. Those were two of the tracks that my drive would not rip. They ripped fine on his drive.


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## Klassik

Florestan said:


> I didn't realize that you gave a different drive number than the one my son listed: Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA Internal OEM Optical Drive.
> 
> At any rate, he just ripped the last two tracks on disk one of the bronzing disks. Those were two of the tracks that my drive would not rip. They ripped fine on his drive.


There seems to be several different models of ASUS 24x DVD-RWs. I suspect that most of these are pretty much the same drives but some might be intended for the OEM market and others for retail sale. Anyway, it's good to know that it can read your troublesome discs. Perhaps these drives can be recommended to others who have problems ripping discs.


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## Jessy

Chordalrock said:


> Here's an example of what I mean. I have circled in red the area with the small black deterioration thing. This is a CD printed in 2008 - the damage may actually be something else than erosion, because it looks kind of different than the usual damage, more clear-cut, but it's the most noticeable example I could find with little effort and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a photo like this.


I noticed this exact same spot on one of my cds. It doesnt affect sound quality in any way, no skipping, exact audio copy found 0 error`s and ripped it to flac without any problems. Spot itself doesnt seem to spread any further (I bought this cd used few years ago). So, Im just wondering, if it actually has to do anything with cd rot? It does look different. Perhaps its just the way the cd was made? with some minor defect during manufacturing? There is a lot of information on cd bronzing, cd rot, but this particular black dot on the edge of cd - is still something new to me.


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## bigshot

CDs play from the inside out, so the edge is the least important part of the playing surface.


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## Pugg

Jessy said:


> I noticed this exact same spot on one of my cds. It doesnt affect sound quality in any way, no skipping, exact audio copy found 0 error`s and ripped it to flac without any problems. Spot itself doesnt seem to spread any further (I bought this cd used few years ago). So, Im just wondering, if it actually has to do anything with cd rot? It does look different. Perhaps its just the way the cd was made? with some minor defect during manufacturing? There is a lot of information on cd bronzing, cd rot, but this particular black dot on the edge of cd - is still something new to me.


No it doesn't like bigshot is saying spinning is from inside out, so no worries.


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