# VPO attitude towards women



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

What are you people's opinions on the attitude of the Vienna Philharmonic towards women? 

Are women players better than men? What is your take?


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

h1478971 said:


> Are women players better than men? What is your take?


If a musician can play well, why should anyone care what is or is not between their legs? End of story.

Behind all the talk of the "tradition" in the VP is a bunch of misogynistic BS. They need to catch up with the times.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Earthling said:


> If a musician can play well, why should anyone care what is or is not between their legs? End of story.
> 
> Behind all the talk of the "tradition" in the VP is a bunch of misogynistic BS. They need to catch up with the times.


Agreed. I like the way they do auditions for the Met orchestra. Musicians play from behind a screen so that prejudices for or against people based on their sex or race don't play a part and whoever played best always gets the job.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

These things take time. They have three women now, with four more waiting in the wings.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Earthling said:


> If a musician can play well, why should anyone care what is or is not between their legs?


Unless it's a cello


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> Agreed. I like the way they do auditions for the Met orchestra. Musicians play from behind a screen so that prejudices for or against people based on their sex or race don't play a part and whoever played best always gets the job.


Screened auditions are a fairly widespread practice here in America- and for major orchestras of national significance, particularly those that involve a taxpayer-subsidy-component, I couldn't agree more strongly with the concept, in principle. Make the decisions based on what your ears tell you. Period. It's not the Ol' Gentlemen's Network, nor is it the freaking Bond Quartet.

Somewhile back, however, the Detroit Symphony Orchestra had to defend against an unfair hiring practices lawsuit for under-representation of minorities, _in spite of_ their use of screened auditioning. The Plaintiffs here wanted the evidence of the ears discounted, but for different reasons... and _that_ would be wrong, too.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Screened auditions are a fairly widespread practice here in America- and for major orchestras of national significance, particularly those that involve a taxpayer-subsidy-component, I couldn't agree more strongly with the concept, in principle. Make the decisions based on what your ears tell you. Period. It's not the Ol' Gentlemen's Network, nor is it the freaking Bond Quartet.
> 
> Somewhile back, however, the Detroit Symphony Orchestra had to defend against an unfair hiring practices lawsuit for under-representation of minorities, _in spite of_ their use of screened auditioning. The Plaintiffs here wanted the evidence of the ears discounted, but for different reasons... and _that_ would be wrong, too.


I agree. I'm all for equal opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily have to result in equal representation.


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## gmubandgeek (Jun 8, 2010)

It is my strongest desire is to live in Europe and be a part of the VPO, but I fear that is naive because of the color of my skin. Music knows no race. What happened to letting the best players perform? If you understand the theory, history and tradition of music and the ensemble, nothing else should matter.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Sigh! You would think by 2010 ad we wouldnt have this trouble


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

The Austrians (practically) gave us both world wars, so what do you expect? I remember seeing the late conductor Sir Georg Solti in an interview, talking about his time in Austria and then Switzerland (before/during WW2). Solti, a Hungarian Jew, said that these two countries were the most anti-Semitic in Europe during that time (& we all know how Mahler, despite converting to Christianity, was turfed out of his position at the Vienna Opera, so he had to go to New York). Fast forward several decades, and these things have probably not changed all that much. So I'm not surprised at the Austrians' conservatism and mysogyny regarding women. Sorry, this sounds harsh, but I think that if they hadn't given us great music (and Mozart chocolate bon-bons), then what else would Austria be known for? Hitler? Bruno? The Sound of Music? (& don't get me started on the Swiss, but that's off-topic, anyway)...


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