# Old Italian Music



## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

Hello there, 

I am new to these forums but not to Classical music. I am a huge fan of Baroque music and its history. I love Vivaldi, Albinoni, Merula, Cazzati, and all the rest of them. As of now, I have been hooked on listening to Fasolo's Ciaconna Acceso mio core, it is absolutely beautiful piece of music. I know everybody knows about Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, etc. But what about the music before that? It seems that we forget about the much older Italian music like Marco Marazzoli, Uccellini, Matteis, Fasolo, etc. This music was really the foundation of the coming music such as Vivaldi, Bach, etc. I was wondering if anybody here felt this way as well, and if anybody here likes the old Italian music.

Thanks,
Fasolo.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Welcome.

I'm a fan of Baroque music, although I happen to listen to more late Baroque. I agree with the essence of what you are saying. You mentioned a few interesting names there, such as Uccellini and Matteis, which is funny because I was only listening to a CD of Nicola Matteis' music last night! (_Suites and Sonatas, vol.2_ played by The Arcadian Academy/Nicholas McGegan, on period instruments). I presume the music you listen to tend to be historically informed performances (HIP), which really brings out the idiom and sounds of these music.


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Welcome.
> 
> I'm a fan of Baroque music, although I happen to listen to more late Baroque. I agree with the essence of what you are saying. You mentioned a few interesting names there, such as Uccellini and Matteis, which is funny because I was only listening to a CD of Nicola Matteis' music last night! (_Suites and Sonatas, vol.2_ played by The Arcadian Academy/Nicholas McGegan, on period instruments). I presume the music you listen to tend to be historically informed performances (HIP), which really brings out the idiom and sounds of these music.


Thank you for your response. Matteis is one of my favorites, his Diverse Bizzarie Sopra la Vecchia is my favorite piece from him. While I do listen to Bach, Vivaldi, Corelli, Marais, etc., I do tend to listen to a lot of the much earlier Baroque compositions. There is something about hearing the sublime music that would pave the way for later Baroque. When I read that the Ciaccona came from Spain, I had to find a Spanish version, so found Santiago de Murcia's Mariones:






I also love hearing the much earlier ciacconas, as of now (as I have stated earlier) I am hooked on Fasolo's Ciaccona Acceso's mio core which can be listen to here:






While I love to listen to this, I was wondering if you could help me with something. I know this recording was done by Vincent Dumestre, but do you think this is how it really sounded back then? Could it be possible that they added a modern drift? I would love to know the answer, the more I can learn about this lost gem, the more precious the piece will become 

thank you,
Fasolo


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

fasolo said:


> While I love to listen to this, I was wondering if you could help me with something. I know this recording was done by Vincent Dumestre, but do you think this is how it really sounded back then? Could it be possible that they added a modern drift? I would love to know the answer, the more I can learn about this lost gem, the more precious the piece will become


When I listened to the clip, I also thought how very modern it sounded. Your suspicion of a modern drift might well be founded. I don't really know, but I bet the score on paper must look rather "sparse" and it's up to the performer to bring it out, so that it's relevant to us today. Who knows. Nice piece.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I quite agree that there is too much of a focus by the "classical music" audience to the music from Haydn and Mozart through Stravinsky and Bartok. There is plenty of real merit both before and after this period. My personal tastes run from the earliest chants (Byzantine, Milanese, etc...) through the latest compositions by living composers. 

Over the last year and a half I have been making a concerted effort to broaden my grasp (and my collection) of Baroque and Renaissance music. For whatever reason, my efforts have been centered most upon the French and Germans with recent explorations of the Italians. Monteverdi and Gesualdo have been the most glaring exceptions as I have been rather fixated upon their efforts. Some other favorites have been Vivaldi (whose vocal works I have become quite enamored with), Pandolfi, Alessandro Scarlatti (who I have come to prefer to his more well-known son), Alessandro Marcello, Tomaso Albinoni, and of course Giovanni Battista Pergolesi. Going back further, I quite like Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina, Giovanni Gabrieli, etc...


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto, I really hope our assumption is wrong, I'd really love to believe that this piece is authentic 

StlukesguildOhio, I very much agree with you. Vivaldi and the other names you just mentioned are underated. I have never heard of Giovanni Gabrieli, thank you for opening my eyes to another Baroque composer! :-D Maybe this thread should become the thread dedicated to discussion on Italian music. Vivaldi, in my opinion, may be the best of the Italian composers. I would also try listening to Benedetto Marcello, he has quite a ciaccona, heard here:






This piece is also quite profound






A good piece from Vivaldi that I like to recommend is the first mov. from his Oboe Concerto in C Major:






Alessando Piccinini's lute music is also good Italian music:






Your thoughts?

Italian music is not that talked about, in my opinion, the music of the Baroque era is better than the Romantic music that is so much talked about. That is just my opinion.

Who hear likes Jaroussky? I absolutely love his singing of Ferrari's Queste pungenti spine, found here:






The horn piece is excellent.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Great clips there, thanks for posting. The Piccinini piece was my fav from the ones above.

When it comes to Baroque lute music, I think the one standout is Silvius Leopold Weiss (1687-1750), almost exact contemporary of Bach, and I think Weiss' lute suites were the best ever written, though belonging to the late Baroque and not Italian! (Naxos is slowly releasing them, beautifully played by Robert Barto).

I have several CDs featuring Jaroussky.

The one feature that seems to be common to these earlier pieces, to me, is how strikingly relevant the sounds are; even the lute pieces, without any ostentatious virtuosity so to speak that later Baroque pieces may come with.

Sample


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

Your Lute video is quite good, I love Weiss's Ciaccona. Have you ever heard of Robert de Visee? This is my favorite piece from him:






And it has that baroque feel that I love! It seems that the Romantic era pretty much got rid of this style of music. I believe that there is more creativity in the Baroque than in the Romantic era. The music of the Romantic era seems that it was what spawned jazz music.

Your thoughts?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Many folks find Romantic music much closer to contemporary tastes than earlier periods, although some of us somehow realise how strikingly modern the older pieces sound, which is even more remarkable given the age of these pieces. A good example is music by Monterverdi.

You seem to like pieces entitled _Ciaconne_. I was listening to this by Antonio Bertali (1605-1669, born in Verona)


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

You've made my day, HarpsichordConcerto! I love Bertali's ciaccona, here is a good version of it as well:






I love the ciacconas because they provide a great 'Baroque spirit'

I think another reason for the Romantic craze is that Romantic and Classical are the most talked about to the public eye. Baroque does have a very modern sound. 
When I hear Corelli's Ciaccona, it sounds so sublime:






Merula's ciaccona has a very Italian feel to it:






You are correct on Monteverdi. Ever hear this one?






Let this thread be an ode to Baroque! 

Also, what is, simply put, a ciaccona? Most of them have common patterns, but some are different.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

_Ciaconna_ = Chaconne, and you can read all about it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaconne


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you. I was hoping for a simple answer, but oh well.


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