# Please recommend me a book on Bach’s church cantatas



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I’ve decided the time has come to finally get to know this music - I guess it’s either now or never. I mean, this is going to take quite a few years! 

I know myself well enough to know that what I need for this sort of epic project is an inspiring book or two, something which is characterful, which will give me texts and background info, and will enthuse too. Something opinionated. 

Suggestions appreciated - as long as it’s in English or French!


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

There's is a book "The Cantatas of J. S. Bach" from Alfred Dürr, translated to English by Richard Jones.

The content is mostly from the 1970s, but no newer publication has really superseded it.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

You might also be interested in the Bach Cantatas website. The link below goes to analyses of each cantata by several different contributors.

A while ago, I made it a point each night a play a cantata while following Simon Crouch's analysis. I was amazed at the scope of the human condition that Bach covers through all these.

https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Guide/IndexGuide1.htm


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

J.E. Gardiner's _Music in the Castle of Heaven_ is a pretty delightful survey of all Bach's vocal works, with some fascinating analysis mainly of the two great Leipzig cycles. Gardiner's writing is just like his conducting-brash, flamboyant, colorful, and egocentric-but well worth reading. If you can get your hands on it, Eric Chafe's _Tonal Allegory in the Vocal Music of J.S. Bach_ is a wonderful theological reading of many cantatas and of Bach's techniques in general. And the two Schweitzer volumes are also well worth seeking out for a unique and individual perspective on the works even though much of it is obviously outdated and the actual analysis is fairly minimal.

Oh, and this website is absolutely superb. I also used to love reading Craig Smith's highly perceptive commentaries on Emmanuel Music's website, but sadly enough they appear to have been inexplicably taken down as of late.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> J.E. Gardiner's _Music in the Castle of Heaven_ is a pretty delightful survey of all Bach's vocal works, with some fascinating analysis mainly of the two great Leipzig cycles. Gardiner's writing is just like his conducting-brash, flamboyant, colorful, and egocentric-but well worth reading. If you can get your hands on it, Eric Chafe's _Tonal Allegory in the Vocal Music of J.S. Bach_ is a wonderful theological reading of many cantatas and of Bach's techniques in general. And the two Schweitzer volumes are also well worth seeking out for a unique and individual perspective on the works even though much of it is obviously outdated and the actual analysis is fairly minimal.


Gardiner is the one to read. This is worth a watch too


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

A good introduction is Mark Ringer's _Bach's Operas of the Soul: A Listener's Guide to the Sacred Cantatas_. In addition to the Dürr/Jones already mentioned I recommend Eric Chafe's _Analyzing Bach Cantatas_. Chafe concentrates on a few representative cantatas, mostly from the Leipzig cycles of 1723-24 and 1724-25, synthesizing a number of key musical and theological ideas to illuminate their essential character.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> A good introduction is Mark Ringer's _Bach's Operas of the Soul: A Listener's Guide to the Sacred Cantatas_.


This has arrived and it looks like a book which I can use as a guide through the set of works. I've just discovered BWV 61 through it - so as far as I'm concerned it has already justified its price! One of these things where you hear it once and you want to hear it again straight away.

Listen to this astonishing performance!


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Julian Mincham's website, which Allegro con Brio referenced above, is better than most books.

https://www.jsbachcantatas.com/


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

dissident said:


> Julian Mincham's website, which Allegro con Brio referenced above, is better than most books.
> 
> https://www.jsbachcantatas.com/


It's just the fact that it's online makes it not work for me -- I want something I can take to bed with me. I want something I can fold down at the corners. I want something I can throw across the room when I get annoyed by it. I want something I can use to rest my cup of coffee on.

I'm not going to take my laptop to bed.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

> I'm not going to take my laptop to bed.


I use my phone most of the time these days. Anyway, Alfred Dürr's _The Cantatas of J. S. Bach_ is also excellent...but very pricey.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

dissident said:


> I use my phone most of the time these days. Anyway, Alfred Dürr's _The Cantatas of J. S. Bach_ is also excellent...but very pricey.


It is best in hardcopy. The eBook is not formatted well for Kindle readers.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> It is best in hardcopy. The eBook is not formatted well for Kindle readers.


Correct about the formatting as an eBook. It is available more reasonably on eBay in the UK at least, as a print on demand book.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> J.E. Gardiner's _Music in the Castle of Heaven_ is a pretty delightful survey of all Bach's vocal works, with some fascinating analysis mainly of the two great Leipzig cycles. Gardiner's writing is just like his conducting-brash, flamboyant, colorful, and egocentric-but well worth reading. If you can get your hands on it, Eric Chafe's _Tonal Allegory in the Vocal Music of J.S. Bach_ is a wonderful theological reading of many cantatas and of Bach's techniques in general. And the two Schweitzer volumes are also well worth seeking out for a unique and individual perspective on the works even though much of it is obviously outdated and the actual analysis is fairly minimal.
> 
> Oh, and this website is absolutely superb. I also used to love reading Craig Smith's highly perceptive commentaries on Emmanuel Music's website, but sadly enough they appear to have been inexplicably taken down as of late.


I must say, the Gardiner performances in the complete cycle are extremely impressive. Very good sopranos!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> A good introduction is Mark Ringer's _Bach's Operas of the Soul: A Listener's Guide to the Sacred Cantatas_. In addition to the Dürr/Jones already mentioned I recommend Eric Chafe's _Analyzing Bach Cantatas_. Chafe concentrates on a few representative cantatas, mostly from the Leipzig cycles of 1723-24 and 1724-25, synthesizing a number of key musical and theological ideas to illuminate their essential character.


My problem is this: I'm drowning in music, very good music sometimes, often probably, but there's too much of it. It's like an Aladdin's cave, or an enormous box of chocolates. The impression I'm getting is of a mountain of lovely things but it's all pell mell. I don't have a structure to hang it all on. So exploring the cantatas is unsatisfactory and frustrating. I don't think I can keep it up and I don't feel I'm gaining much understanding.

I need a term long undergraduate lecture course on the cantatas.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka, I have to agree. You'll never 'understand' a cantata using that approach. The cantatas bear witness to a life of conservative Lutheran observance at odds with the progressivist currents of Bach's day, and ours. Bach wrote in the margin of his copy of Abraham Calov’s Bible commentary, ‘Where there is devotional music, God with his grace is always present.’ In other words, at a rendering of devout music, the 'Grace-Presence' of God will always inhabit the hearts of Christian believers, whose bodies, according to the New Testament, are 'a temple of the Holy Spirit.' Bach's cantatas are best approached not as a vast ocean of 'classical music' awaiting systematic exploration, but as individual acts of devotion each with its own message for believers composed 'Soli Deo gloria'. No lecture course, even post-graduate, will enable you to hear a cantata in that spirit.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> ...but as individual acts of devotion each with its own message *for believers*...


Yes, that's the important point. The disconnect comes from having been swimming in (for lack of a better term) "postmodern" thought for decades, and Bach is the antithesis of that.


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## ChrJou (9 mo ago)

In French an essential book by Gilles Cantagrel : Les cantates de J.‑S. Bach (Fayard 2010, 1675 pages)

After an introduction of a hundred pages, each cantata (with original text and French translation) is accompanied by a historical, theological and musical commentary.
At the end of the book, there are different tables by date of performance, by voice and solo instruments, by duration of performance, by litugical destinations, by BWV catalog number etc.
To leaf through like a dictionary or a listening guide.
Sorry for my english


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ChrJou said:


> In French an essential book by Gilles Cantagrel : Les cantates de J.‑S. Bach (Fayard 2010, 1675 pages)
> 
> After an introduction of a hundred pages, each cantata (with original text and French translation) is accompanied by a historical, theological and musical commentary.
> At the end of the book, there are different tables by date of performance, by voice and solo instruments, by duration of performance, by litugical destinations, by BWV catalog number etc.
> ...


Your English is perfect! And welcome.

I have a book on Bach by Cantagrel called _Le moulin et la rivière._ It's interesting because the style is so very different from the anglo American one that I'm used to. I'll check out this book on the cantatas if I can find it. Thanks.

That being said, my Bach cantata project has ground to a halt, it's like I was drowning in Baroque vocal music, I needed a bit of air.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ChrJou said:


> In French an essential book by Gilles Cantagrel : Les cantates de J.‑S. Bach (Fayard 2010, 1675 pages)
> 
> After an introduction of a hundred pages, each cantata (with original text and French translation) is accompanied by a historical, theological and musical commentary.
> At the end of the book, there are different tables by date of performance, by voice and solo instruments, by duration of performance, by litugical destinations, by BWV catalog number etc.
> ...


It has arrived. It certainly is a pavé! It may actually be the biggest book I own!

All I've done so far is compare Catagrel's account of BWV 61 with Alfred Dürr's. Catagrel's essay on the cantata is more probing and revealing, and for me his style is more engaging. If the rest is as good, then this is a wonderful book. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.


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