# Thoughts about Sondra Radvanovsky's Turandot?



## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Here we gooooo

I pray that the full recording comes out soon, but I actually quite like her Turandot. Her voice is fascinating. From this it does sound like she has the voice for it - and if I remember correctly she'll be singing it onstage in 2023.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sondra has a very powerful voice.
At one point, one of her castmates remarked something to the effect that standing close to her onstage could cause ear problems.
I can't imagine why somone would think she cannot do _Turandot_.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gsdkfasdf said:


> Here we gooooo
> 
> I pray that the full recording comes out soon, but I actually quite like her Turandot. Her voice is fascinating. From this it does sound like she has the voice for it - and if I remember correctly she'll be singing it onstage in 2023.


Full recording? Is this part of that? Why is she far away in what sounds like the corridor of a hospital? Maybe this is a badly miked stage rehearsal in an empty hall?

It sounds as if she can handle the music. No wobbles, at any rate.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Why is she far away in what sounds like the corridor of a hospital?


I believe it's part of a pandemic-inspired hospital performance initiative.

But I could be wrong.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

amfortas said:


> I believe it's part of a pandemic-inspired hospital performance initiative.
> 
> But I could be wrong.


You're suggesting that my hospital idea...

Heh heh. Almost had me there.


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Full recording? Is this part of that? Why is she far away in what sounds like the corridor of a hospital? Maybe this is a badly miked stage rehearsal in an empty hall?
> 
> It sounds as if she can handle the music. No wobbles, at any rate.







Found another one!

I thought they livestreamed it so I'm waiting to see if anyone puts the clips up


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> Sondra has a very powerful voice.
> At one point, one of her castmates remarked something to the effect that standing close to her onstage could cause ear problems.
> I can't imagine why somone would think she cannot do _Turandot_.


I can't imagine being able to walk away with my hearing if I stand on the stage with her haha I was watching the Bolena sitzprobe from the Met and the high notes absolutely blew me away and she absolutely drowned everything out. That was pretty insane


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

From this it seems likely her Turandot will be an improvement on those we've been hearing lately: Nina Stemme (wobble), Christine Goerke (weird high notes), Anna Netrebko (sorry, I can't pretend she doesn't sing this). It's a role most sopranos should skip, for their sake and ours.


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> From this it seems likely her Turandot will be an improvement on those we've been hearing lately: Nina Stemme (wobble), Christine Goerke (weird high notes), Anna Netrebko (sorry, I can't pretend she doesn't sing this). It's a role most sopranos should skip, for their sake and ours.


I absolutely agree that I don't really enjoy Netrebko's Turandot. There are a few lyric/lirico-spintos who've taken on Turandot with varying degrees of success, but I'm not a huge fan of hers.

I always wonder if the vibrato we tend to associate with dramatic sopranos today are a product of modern technique or just innate for the singer.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Sondra sounds like she has all the goods, a healthy voice, volume and heft, and a feeling for the words. I just wish she’d find more rewarding roles for herself unless she always wanted to be Birgit Nilsson.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gsdkfasdf said:


> I always wonder if the vibrato we tend to associate with dramatic sopranos today are a product of modern technique or just innate for the singer.


Dramatic sopranos with big, flopping, wavering, seasickness-inducing vibratos have possibly always existed, but lately such excruciating sounds - which some people must now identify with opera as such - seem to be standard equipment. That kind of deterioration shouldn't happen to a properly used voice in a healthy body, even as a singer passes her prime. Sopranos such as Leider, Flagstad, Traubel, Lawrence, Turner, Lubin, Grob-Prandl, Nilsson and Meier never developed this problem. Maybe the first celebrated Wagnerians to go wobbly in late career (if not before) were Modl and Varnay, and then Gwyneth Jones in the next generation. As far as I'm concerned those three passed their sell-by date early enough to compromise quite a few major productions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> Sondra sounds like she has all the goods, a healthy voice, volume and heft, and a feeling for the words. I just wish she'd find more rewarding roles for herself unless she always wanted to be Birgit Nilsson.


She isn't young - 53 this year - and her voice still sounds in good shape, which is refreshing nowadays for a big-voiced singer. No doubt she wants to try stuff while she still can. Turandot is quite a distance from Donizetti's queens. It'll be interesting to hear her, and to keep an ear out for Lise Davidsen, now in her early 30s. We need all the dramatic sopranos we can get!


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> She isn't young - 53 this year - and her voice still sounds in good shape, which is refreshing nowadays for a big-voiced singer. No doubt she wants to try stuff while she still can. Turandot is quite a distance from Donizetti's queens. It'll be interesting to hear her, and to keep an ear out for Lise Davidsen, now in her early 30s. We need all the dramatic sopranos we can get!


Have you seen Davidsen's Ariadne yet? I haven't gotten the chance to watch it, but I imagine I will at some point. I quite liked her other work so this is one I'd really like to see.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gsdkfasdf said:


> Have you seen Davidsen's Ariadne yet? I haven't gotten the chance to watch it, but I imagine I will at some point. I quite liked her other work so this is one I'd really like to see.


I've seen only brief clips on YouTube. There are several performances of "Es gibt ein Reich" there, where we can either see her or simply listen. I'm mainly concerned with what I hear, and when I hear this I'm definitely concerned:






As I commented on YouTube, this is "modern" singing, in which each successive note receives an independent vocal adjustment. Many notes begin with straight, vibratoless tone and swell in volume. There's virtually no legato. Old timers like Flagstad did not sing this way, with this technical or musical approach. The comparisons being made are absurd, and the attempts to place Davidsen in the line of succession of great dramatic sopranos seem at this date like wishful thinking. Any number of singers have recorded versions of this that set Davidsen's faults in relief. Try Jesse Norman






Of course this is a thread about Sondra Radvanovsky. I thought we had another recent thread about Davidsen, but for some reason I'm unable to locate it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> She isn't young - 53 this year - and her voice still sounds in good shape, which is refreshing nowadays for a big-voiced singer. No doubt she wants to try stuff while she still can. Turandot is quite a distance from Donizetti's queens. It'll be interesting to hear her, and to keep an ear out for Lise Davidsen, now in her early 30s. We need all the dramatic sopranos we can get!


Sondra has one of the biggest sounds to be found in opera today I am told. Some don't like her voice, but she has solid technique and should be able to handle the demands of the role without doing damage. There are few Chinese women as tall as Goerke and Sondra LOL.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

She sounds fantastic! Listened on my phone and upper middle was a little shrill but fortunately I waited and had none of that response on the computer. I've been waiting on or just missing Turandot for a long time, Radvanovsky is my hope!
(will look for that Davidsen thread...reflective thoughts, not rhetorical!!!)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> There are few Chinese women as tall as Goerke and Sondra LOL.


Though that is not a requirement of the role LOL


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sondra has one of the biggest sounds to be found in opera today I am told. Some don't like her voice, but she has solid technique and should be able to handle the demands of the role without doing damage. There are few Chinese women as tall as Goerke and Sondra LOL.


I would guess that there are few Chinese women who resemble Turandot in any respect. I imagine the Chinese roll their eyes over the way their culture is presented in the opera, even if they enjoy the music.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> I would guess that there are few Chinese women who resemble Turandot in any respect. I imagine the Chinese roll their eyes over the way their culture is presented in the opera, even if they enjoy the music.


Yes especially as these 'Chinese' sing in Italian!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I would guess that there are few Chinese women who resemble Turandot in any respect. I imagine the Chinese roll their eyes over the way their culture is presented in the opera, even if they enjoy the music.


"Drowsy Chaperone"........What is it about the Asians, That fascinates caucasians? Would have posted it if there was a professional video.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Besides, Turandot isn't Chinese


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> Besides, Turandot isn't Chinese


Is she anything in particular? She sure wears funny outfits.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Becca said:


> Besides, Turandot isn't Chinese


The original story is Persian, in which the protagonist is a Russian princess Turan Dohkt (Daughter of Turan). The librettist Adami set it in "mythical China." There was also a play, Turandot by Carlo Gozzi that influenced Puccini.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

In any case I'm sure China is happy not to claim her. She could have escaped from a Wuhan laboratory and they're just not admitting it.


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> I would guess that there are few Chinese women who resemble Turandot in any respect. I imagine the Chinese roll their eyes over the way their culture is presented in the opera, even if they enjoy the music.


I'm ethnically Chinese, actually. I chuckle a little at the costumes, but as with most Zeffreili productions, it is _grand_ opera at the finest. It's definitely historically inaccurate - I can think of a number of emperors who executed their children for much less than doing politically stupid things - but I would be lying if I didn't say that I love the opera in itself. Only a fool would take it at face value as a representation of Chinese culture. It's like saying Il Trovatore happens in Spain, so that's representative of all Spanish people.

The only Chinese Turandot I know is Hui He and she started out singing Liu (and she only sings Turandot in Europe). I doubt that there aren't Chinese women with dramatic soprano voices around - out of 1 billion, there has to be at least one or two, right - but most are probably not going to go into opera (and it's a wise decision to not go into opera given how COVID has singlehandedly wrecked the industry). This new generation is insanely tall - I'm 5'2 and very, very below average amongst the younger generation - so I think there has to be one or two Turandots running around somewhere, right? The average height for 19 year old girls, across cities and rural areas (with a much higher rate of poverty, human trafficking, and child marriage but shhh I don't want to get censored yet) is 5'4. In cities people are much taller because you usually only have one or two kids at most, and of course you dote on them and make sure that they're well and all.

That being said I think it's probably self selecting too. Chinese music schools are generally state funded and just want the top talent in their teens, and the top talent probably will end up being coloratura sopranos and light lyrics who mature earlier. Hence why most, if not all of the famous classical singers in China are of the light lyric variety. Probably also has to do with how frustrating it can be to train an unusual voice. And that most people, if they have a choice, won't study an instrument because it's a career that depends heavily on luck.

I'm no professional so please take my words with a grain of salt, but from what I can gather it seems like the case. Not necessarily that people aren't tall - I feel taller in America, ironically - but that people aren't interested and state schools are selecting for the mature voices at 18, which are the lyric voices. There are almost no mezzo sopranos, which I think can also contribute because many dramatic sopranos (Sondra included) start as mezzos.


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Is she anything in particular? She sure wears funny outfits.


She's a Chinese opera singer or Taobao shopper  one of my favorite pastimes is just pointing out how silly some/most of the costumes as a historical costumer but for the most part, they are pretty. I can think of a few cases where I just guffawed my way through in questa reggia though


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Though that is not a requirement of the role LOL


Most dramatic sopranos are _tall_. The former seems to correlate with the latter so...it might as well be. But well, Nilsson wasn't freakishly tall (5'6 or so, still tall but not 6'), but the others were. Sondra is just under 6', Sutherland was probably over that, and Deborah Voigt looks to be slightly shorter than Sondra, but still very tall. Callas sang Brunnhilde and was 5'8.5. Rosa Ponselle was reportedly around 5'10. Pretty weird stuff actually. Even the spintos were tall - Tebaldi was around 5'10 or so.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

“Mythical China” gives stage directors and designers license to imagine their own version of it.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I can't speak to her Turandot, but just today I was invited to a performance of Un Ballo at La Scala in April and she's singing Amelia, so I look forward to reporting back!


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Bonetan said:


> I can't speak to her Turandot, but just today I was invited to a performance of Un Ballo at La Scala in April and she's singing Amelia, so I look forward to reporting back!


Lucky! Do report back - I'm interested in hearing. Unfortunately I can't go anywhere for the time being, so I might have to rely on second hand accounts


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

gsdkfasdf said:


> Most dramatic sopranos are _tall_. The former seems to correlate with the latter so...it might as well be. But well, Nilsson wasn't freakishly tall (5'6 or so, still tall but not 6'), but the others were. Sondra is just under 6', Sutherland was probably over that, and Deborah Voigt looks to be slightly shorter than Sondra, but still very tall. Callas sang Brunnhilde and was 5'8.5. Rosa Ponselle was reportedly around 5'10. Pretty weird stuff actually. Even the spintos were tall - Tebaldi was around 5'10 or so.


Sutherland was 6'2". " "I always knew," she would confess, "that I just wasn't cut out for a 15-year-old Madam Butterfly or a consumptive Mimi."


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

marlow said:


> Sutherland was 6'2". " "I always knew," she would confess, "that I just wasn't cut out for a 15-year-old Madam Butterfly or a consumptive Mimi."


There we go! (But I'd line up for twenty-four hours in the cold if it meant getting to see her sing Mimi)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gsdkfasdf said:


> There we go! (But I'd line up for twenty-four hours in the cold if it meant getting to see her sing Mimi)


Who hasn't wanted to see a coughing Joan Sutherland comforted by a 5'8" tenor?


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Who hasn't wanted to see a coughing Joan Sutherland comforted by a 5'8" tenor?


HAHAHAHA this is too true


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

marlow said:


> Sutherland was 6'2". " "I always knew," she would confess, "that I just wasn't cut out for a 15-year-old Madam Butterfly or a consumptive Mimi."


It is what Wikipedia says and she looks as tall as Pav side by side BUT in an interview on Youtube Bonynge said she was 5'83/4. The photographic evidence for this is the photo of her standing beside Callas who is the same height as she is and this is about Callas' height. Either way, back in the 60's in Miss. a woman over 5'8 was really really tall.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I can't speak to her Turandot, but just today I was invited to a performance of Un Ballo at La Scala in April and she's singing Amelia, so I look forward to reporting back!


Bonetan: I've seen her Un Ballo (with Hvorostovsky) and you are in for a treat. Watch for her "Morro, ma prima in grazie" aria in the last act. It'll knock your socks off.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

gsdkfasdf said:


> Lucky! Do report back - I'm interested in hearing. Unfortunately I can't go anywhere for the time being, so I might have to rely on second hand accounts


Back with my report! I saw Ballo this afternoon at La Scala. Radvanovsky delivered. She was the most well received artist without question. I really enjoyed her acting, she looked great on stage, and nothing in the score seemed to challenge her. She can sing high, she can sing low. Loud, soft, or in between, she's got it. There was an effect she used frequently where she starts a note soft and swells it which I found heavy-handed, but others may have enjoyed that. As far as the size of her voice, there was more than one occasion where she completely drowned out the tenor, which is not to say that her voice is freakishly large, but her top did consistently devour his.

With that said, I don't find it to be a beautiful voice. It's not a voice that I would go out of my way to hear and I don't find it particularly pleasant. I'm not knowledgeable enough about sopranos to make this claim with any certainty, but she seemed to check every box except beauty of tone, which for someone like me who puts beauty of tone first and foremost is a real shame. But she's a fine artist and she was without question the star of today's performance.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> …Radvanovsky…
> 
> With that said, I don't find it to be a beautiful voice. It's not a voice that I would go out of my way to hear and I don't find it particularly pleasant. I'm not knowledgeable enough about sopranos to make this claim with any certainty, but she seemed to check every box except beauty of tone, which for someone like me who puts beauty of tone first and foremost is a real shame. But she's a fine artist and she was without question the star of today's performance.


I agree with that, she’s got everything but beauty and also lacks glamor in my view, is physically and vocally unprepossessing, but she moved well onstage and with authority. Her traversal of Leonora in *Il Trovatore *in San Francisco was the most satisfying of my experience in the opera house, but the *Norma *was disappointing - definitely the minority view, as the public and critics were raving. I will admit that she had almost everything one could wish for the role and yet… didn’t get to the pinnacle.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

With regards to the earlier claims that the origins of Turandot were Russian, over half of Russia is in Asia and much of Siberia is populated with tribes related to the Mongols. They aren't Chinese but look East Asian and their costumes have a definite Asian appearance. Most are Buddhist.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> I agree with that, she’s got everything but beauty and also lacks glamor in my view, physically and vocally unprepossessing, but she moved well onstage and with authority. Her traversal of Leonora in *Il Trovatore *in San Francisco was the most satisfying of my experience in the opera house, but the *Norma *was disappointing - definitely the minority view, as the public and critics were raving. I will admit that she had almost everything one could wish for the role and yet… didn’t get to the pinnacle.


No, Sondra's voice is not one of the beautiful ones. It is a powerful one though and more than one singer has said that to stand next to her onstage is to chance your hearing be disturbed. And better than beautiful, the voice has the ability to turn phrases and get deeper into the part.
I do find her glamorous and pretty and most charming as well, who is able to speak clearly with a lovely sounding voice, unlike someone like Corelli with that gorgeous tenor sound but a voice like a nerd.
I think she is near the top of a few (very few) of today's sopranos.
When I first discovered opera I was entranced by beautiful sounds like Sutherland, Tebaldi and even Price but I eventually came to realize that "flawed" sounding singers were more likely to turn my head with an ability to develop depth that brought much more to a role than just a beautiful sound.


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