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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> Hisaishi clearly quotes Rachmaninoff, while sounding different from him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, it's classical music if you say it is, but why in the world would you want to nominate it whatever you call it.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> According to avant-garde music enthusiasts, anything can be considered "classical music"


Don't count me in.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> *According to avant-garde music enthusiasts, anything can be considered "classical music"*, even 4 minutes 33 seconds of silence.


Who said that? John Cage was a Classical avant-garde composer who happened to do 4'33".

Is Henry Mancini pure Classical? That piece from the movie is similar. So I'd vote 'no'. It's more Pop/Classical.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Can I nominate this piece for "Talk Classical Community's Favorite and Most Highly Recommend Works"?


Well, why not? But don`t expect anyone to endorse it. :lol:

Majority of the film soundtracks do not disturb me while watching the film, this one in particular certainly didn`t when I watched Miyazaki`s animation, because these things function just as complementary devices within the context of the film but when I listened this OOC, it sounded extremely cheesy and incompetent like the majority of the film soundtracks out there IMO.

Btw, love Miyazaki`s animation and Diana Wynne Jones` original novel which are two different things on their own.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> Who said that? John Cage was a Classical avant-garde composer who happened to do 4'33".
> 
> Is Henry Mancini pure Classical? ....


How is he not? What is "pure classical"? If a montage of electronic blips and bleeps and roars can be "pure classical", why not Mancini?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Yes, I consider it classical music, after all many other pieces of questionable attribution has been given the title of classical music so why not this beautiful work?


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Highwayman said:


> Well, why not? But don`t expect anyone to endorse it. :lol:


While I wouldn't say that I would nominate the particular score mentioned by the OP for the list, the expected lack of endorsement is exactly the reason why I do not put my stamp of legitimization on the list by nominating any film scores.

I would just end up seeing them rot on the bottom tiers - and the greater score I would nominate, the more clownish would the result be when it would be kept a hundred tiers below, say, a Verdi opera.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

consuono said:


> How is he not? What is "pure classical"? If a montage of electronic blips and bleeps and roars can be "pure classical", why not Mancini?


The style or musical material of Mancini isn't, even though it can be on traditional instruments.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Who said that? John Cage was a Classical avant-garde composer who happened to do 4'33".
> 
> Is Henry Mancini pure Classical? That piece from the movie is similar. So I'd vote 'no'. It's more Pop/Classical.


Hey. Mancini composed an overture for a pops orchestra (Boston Pops).






i want to play... Is this classical?






Or this?






Or this?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> According to avant-garde music enthusiasts, anything can be considered "classical music", even 4 minutes 33 seconds of silence.
> 
> So why not?
> Can I nominate this piece for "Talk Classical Community's Favorite and Most Highly Recommend Works"?


A lot of film music is influenced by the common practice era. And just like how opera or ballet music can stand alone without the visual aspect of it, some film music can be enjoyable even without the visuals behind it.

If Hisashi wants to consider himself a classical music composer, there's nothing stopping him from doing so.

You can nominate almost anything you want for anything you want. Whether you will get a good reception is a different matter, although in this case I will say that HIsashi is probably more appreciated around here than John Cage.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> The style or musical material of Mancini isn't, even though it can be on traditional instruments.


But the style and musical.material.of Stockhausen is?


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Joe Hisaishi is a film music composer; not a classical composer.

He likes classical music though and has conducted a Beethoven symphony cycle =>









This interesting you tube video shows Debussy's influence on his film music.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Andrew Kenneth said:


> Joe Hisaishi is a film music composer; not a classical composer.


That argument again?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Andrew Kenneth said:


> This interesting you tube video shows Debussy's influence on his film music.


Enka is mentioned in that video at around 7:00


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

consuono said:


> But the style and musical.material.of Stockhausen is?


Yup.... Henry Mancini is considered light classical or pop or easy listening. Not my doing, although I see where they are coming from. While Stockhausen is considered to be Classical. I'm ok to let their music speak for itself


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yup.... Henry Mancini is considered light classical or pop or easy listening. Not my doing, although I see where they are coming from. While Stockhausen is considered to be Classical.


Does that mean stuff like Johann Strauss II is not classical music?



Andrew Kenneth said:


> Joe Hisaishi is a film music composer; not a classical composer.


But how does that make him not a "classical music composer"? Stuff like Stockhausen often sounds like horror film soundtracks. "Classical music" is not synonymous with "concert music". Plenty of composers of the past wrote incidental music or background music for commercial uses. There's "concert music" in other genres like jazz and rock. Wolfgang Wagner said that if his grandfather was alive today, he would be working for Hollywood.

"The former film's score uses limited transposition and impressionistic strings; *Stockhausen-inspired movements* and exposing Olivier Messiaen's theory of grouping melodies around interval groups." https://www.musicmusingsandsuch.com...or-film-soundtrack-and-why-less-can-mean-more



hammeredklavier said:


> This was obviously inspired by Stockhausen's Gesang der junglinge:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> Does that mean stuff like Johann Strauss II is not classical music?


No. That Howl's Moving Castle is nothing compared to J. Strauss in musical depth and orchestration. It's more akin to this, or orchestrated Beatles songs. Is this Classical?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I think *Classical music* is that in the style of Mozart, Haydn, Gluck, etc. *Early Romantic* has a lot of similarities to Classical, but this film score _Howl's Castle_ has just some Early Romantic about it, with later influences.

I think Beethoven is a mixture more of Classical and Early Romantic. Brahms may be a mixture of Classical and *Late Romantic*, as his music even sounds a bit torn between the two. Mahler is just Late Romantic, and Tchaikovsky is all three.

For these purposes I will just call Late-Romantic ~ Contemporary. They're about the same if you don't mix them with others.

_Early_ film score was the same genre as *Impressionism*, just widely 'pop'ularized. Pretty self-explanitory. John Williams is I think a mix between Late Romantic and _Late_ Film score.

Debussy is classic Film music, if you think about it and listen  Picture popular French and American film: Impressionism was the primary, monumental influence of the latest, hippest film and early showtune-writing, like the classic fairytale films and animations, just as Wagner founded Late Romanticism prior. It was the milder version of Late film music.

This classic *film/impressionism *'sound' is clearly different from a Tchaikovsky or Grieg. It has an incredibly richer, deeper, mobilizing sound, more about raw feeling, texture and impressionism. Although many film composers stayed within Late Romantic, real Impressionism went on to influence the pop genre called Jazz.

*Late film score* I mentioned earlier, is similar to Debussy, but seemed to predominantly start featuring the clear action motifs and visual drama more inspired by Stravinsky and Prokofiev. Prokofiev was a clear Late Romantic who also founded some structure of Late film music.

*Avante-garde* on the other hand, was next higher level from Film/Impressionsm. Not Classical, but just that, avante-garde. It's a little more complicated than that, but sounds okay in theory.


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## Eclipse Noire (Mar 2, 2021)

I would call it "neo classic" or "contemporary orchestra music". 
For more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_period_(music)


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