# Songs in 17/8



## Adam Bodlack

Prime number time signatures are hype - I'm wondering if anyone knows any good songs in 17/8 time?


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## millionrainbows

I think larger time signatures like this are unlikely, since we tend to break things down into smaller phrases. Still, I can see 17/8 being used if the intent is to create a rhythmic situation in which there is a "missing eighth note" or "added eighth note" effect. Such as 8 + 9 (extra eighth note) or some triplet scheme like 9/8 + 6/8 +2/8 (missing eighth note). 

I doubt that any "melodic" entity could be perceived as one large 17-unit gestalt.


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## Duncan

Adam Bodlack said:


> Prime number time signatures are hype - I'm wondering if anyone knows any good songs in 17/8 time?


There are songs in 17/8 time... Are they good? - Depends upon how you feel about Icelandic singer-songwriter Björk...

*List of musical works in unusual time signatures -*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_in_unusual_time_signatures


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## Bwv 1080

Probably can find some Indian music with a 17 beat pattern. 17/8 (or 17/4 or 17/16 or whatever the denominator is) does not give enough info, odd meters are typically some combination of 2 and 3 beat patterns


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## millionrainbows

Bwv 1080 said:


> Probably can find some Indian music with a 17 beat pattern. 17/8 (or 17/4 or 17/16 or whatever the denominator is) does not give enough info, odd meters are typically some combination of 2 and 3 beat patterns


Yes, the thing to understand about Indian music is that these longer rhythms are like a 'string of beads', strings of 2 & 3 beat patterns like you said.


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## Adam Bodlack

Yeah I could see it being used in Indian music. I utilized 30/8 in a composition recently split into 1 bar of 13/8 and 1 bar of 17/8. I thought it sounded pretty cool - haven't used 17/8 on it's own though. If you would like to listen I'll share the link below - the song is titled "Goodness and Severity" and the section starts at 2min.











The song utilizes more prime number time signatures throughout (11/8, 7/8) it is played quite fast so I find the odd meters are less jarring. Let me know your thoughts.


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## millionrainbows

Adam Bodlack said:


> Yeah I could see it being used in Indian music. I utilized 30/8 in a composition recently split into 1 bar of 13/8 and 1 bar of 17/8. I thought it sounded pretty cool - haven't used 17/8 on it's own though. If you would like to listen I'll share the link below - the song is titled "Goodness and Severity" and the section starts at 2min.
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> The song utilizes more prime number time signatures throughout (11/8, 7/8) it is played quite fast so I find the odd meters are less jarring. Let me know your thoughts.


That is some mighty impressive piano playing! Thanks for that.


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## Adam Bodlack

Thanks! I'm not going to lie I had to record it slower and speed it up. It is quite difficult to play - still working on getting it up to that speed!


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## pianozach

Adam Bodlack said:


> Prime number time signatures are hype - I'm wondering if anyone knows any good songs in 17/8 time?


*17/4*
(1973) "Sister Andrea" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra
(2004) "Chlorophyll" by Venetian Snares

*Partially in 17/4*
(1999) "But the Regrets Are Killing Me" by American Football: mostly in 4/4 + 4/4 + 4/4 + 5/4.
(2005) "Fade Together" by Franz Ferdinand (Sections of 17/4 alternate with simple triple)
(2006) "No Man's Land" by Sufjan Stevens (played as 4+4+4+5, chorus in common time)

*17/8
Partially in 17/8
*(1983) "Changes" by Yes - instrumental intro/ending phrased (8/16 + 6/16) + (8/16 + 6/16 + 6/16).
(1988) "You Enjoy Myself" by Phish: one piano-driven section in 6/8 + 6/8 + 3/8 + 2/8.
(1991) "Miracle Of Life" by Yes - instrumental intro phrased 5/8 + 5/8 + 5/8 + 2/8 (or 5/8 + 5/8 + 7/8).
(2000) "Communion and The Oracle" by Symphony X - first half of first verse phrased 12/8 + 5/8
(2000) "Inferno" by Extol - Main riff
(2001) "Don't Put Marbles in Your Nose" by fictional band Scäb from Home Movies (7+4+6)
(2003) "Next" by Béla Fleck and the Flecktones (bridge is in 4/4)
(2006) "Tetragrammaton" by The Mars Volta - after first guitar solo. 8+9.

*17/16*
(1974) "Spanish Moss: Savannah The Serene" by Billy Cobham
(1993) "Psycho Shemps" by Tony Fredianelli (but played as 19/16 + 17/16 + 14/16 + 9/8)
(2004) "Choosing to Drown" by Mike Keneally
(2006) "Yak Party" by Yak

*Partially in 17/16*
(1974) "Flash Flood" by Billy Cobham - entire track except intro
(1983) "Garden Party" by Marillion - verses; difficult to hear at normal song tempo.
(1995) "A Change of Seasons: I. The Crimson Sunrise" - section which is a gesture to "Erotomania" by Dream Theater.
(2005) "Halo" by Porcupine Tree - after the second chorus it switches from 4/4 to 17/16, measured by the band as alternating regularly between 9/8 and 8/8.
(2005) "Open Car" by Porcupine Tree - verses in 17/16
(2005) "Freak Show Excess" by Steve Vai
"COILY" by "The Ozric Tentacles" from the album "Waterfall Cities" starts in 17/16 and changes to many others throughout.



One more: *Endless Dream* by *Yes* . . . Because it's sequenced it hard to tell exactly what the time signature(s) is/are. Someone online suggested that it mostly in 5/4 with some 5/8 measures here and there, but that doesn't seem right to me.






Oh, wait. It's more or less a 5/8 or 5/4 pattern.

The sequence is in 16ths, with the patterns 
(3/16 + 4/16 + 3/16) + 5/16 + 5/16
although it's all effectively in 10/8 in groups 3, making it 15/4

Ah, whatever.


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## Adam Bodlack

Fantastic! Thanks Pianozach! that's a great list - I'll take a listen.


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## millionrainbows

There's a Frank Zappa beat in 7/8 that he always pulled out from time to time; it can be heard on Weasels Ripped My Flesh, among other places. I realized recently that the accents BOM-ba-BOM-ba-BOM-Ba-Ba create a "shuffle" of sorts on the strong accents.


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## Recks Roller

I believe Sister Andrea is actually in four, it just sounds odd due to musical phrasing. Not to downplay the incredible work out into this list.


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## Bwv 1080

17 quarter note beat pattern against 4/4















https://freebasstranscriptions.com/rhythmic-displacement-meshuggahs-do-not-look-down/


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## pianozach

Bwv 1080 said:


> 17 quarter note beat pattern against 4/4
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> https://freebasstranscriptions.com/rhythmic-displacement-meshuggahs-do-not-look-down/


17/8 kicks a$$. Love the groove, love the lyrics, hate that vocal "style".


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## Rogerx

Recks Roller said:


> I believe Sister Andrea is actually in four, it just sounds odd due to musical phrasing. Not to downplay the incredible work out into this list.


Nice first post, welcome to Talk Classical.


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## Red Terror

Bwv 1080 said:


> 17 quarter note beat pattern against 4/4
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> https://freebasstranscriptions.com/rhythmic-displacement-meshuggahs-do-not-look-down/


All of Meshugga's is music is essentially in 4/4 time. They've said so themselves.


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## Bwv 1080

Red Terror said:


> All of Meshugga's is music is essentially in 4/4 time. They've said so themselves.


It's polyrhythmic- the tension is the odd-number patterns (17 in the example I posted) clashing and overlapping with 4/4

The 17 beat figure above will repeats against every 17 bars of 4/4


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## Recks Roller

Recks Roller said:


> I believe Sister Andrea is actually in four, it just sounds odd due to musical phrasing. Not to downplay the incredible work out into this list.


Nevermind. It took me eight months, but I finally realized that I am wrong, a section of Sister Andrea is in 17/4. I feel dumb now.


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## Monsalvat

That "don't look down" sheet music reminds me of the _Peter Grimes_ passacaglia, which is in 4/4 time but repeats every 11 beats. Whereas that feels like three measures but with one beat missing, the 17/8 in 4/4 is more like two measures but with an extra half-beat.


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