# Appreciating the Symphony



## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

Save for a few, I find that most music forms, especially the string quartet and piano solo, can speak to my emotions in a understanding and expressive manner; latey however, when I've tried to get into some of the great symphonies, I've had trouble relating with the form itself. Being the miniaturist that I am, I find most symphonies (exceptions being Mahler's 9th and Beethoven's 5th) to be box-like, callous, repetitive and overwhelming. However, I do not think it's just personal taste; I feel that it's my lack of knowledge or patience, rather than the symphonies themselves, that cause me to feel this way; no matter how much I grow bored of it, I always do feel that I am missing something. Most of this I think can be attributed to me being lost in the overall message or direction of the symphony. So, TalkClassical, what first got you into the symphonic form (specific pieces perhaps?) What ways of looking at the symphony help you best appreciate it? Has analyzing the score helped you at all in understanding and enjoying symphonies to the fullest? I know many will say that if a form doesn't appeal to you then you don't have to listen to it , but I truly believe that I haven't understood it enough to simply ignore it on the matter of taste, and considering the symphonies are arguably the pinnacle of classical music, - most which the composer spends most of their time and thought on - it would be childish to completely ignore such a rich and important form of music; there must be something that people see in it! What do you guys think?


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

So,...most of my buds here know I don't like reading much and you very much lost me at writing that you don't like overwhelming symphonies and stating that two of the most overwhelming symphonies ever written are exceptions. I am a much bigger fan of the concerto, myself...give some later Haydn symphonies a chance or, I don't know...early Mozart...still very confused as to what you want to get out of your symphony.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm not sure I'll ever love symphonies as much as others. Orchestral music at its worst can be like a noisy crowd, whereas chamber music at its best can seem like an interesting conversation. 

I think that as you listen you will find some symphonies (or orchestral works in general) more enjoyable than others. As kv466 noted, concertos are also a bit more approachable. Finally, a symphony (or any work) never sounds the same twice - as you condition your brain with repeated listens even the most gawd-awful work becomes more interesting.

I would suggest that you permit yourself to form likes and dislikes against the grain. Feel free to dislike Haydn or Mahler now. Focus on what you like and build your base on positive listening experiences. From time to time you will want to dip your toe back into areas you didn't like earlier, and on those occasions some times you will be pleasantly surprised.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, I'm no music expert so I can't comment on all of the technical aspects, but I can share my opinion. I used to not really be into symphonies either, and to some small extent that is still true for me. However, the main reason I wasn't into them was just because I hadn't heard very many that I truly liked...as I listened to more and more of them I began to appreciate them more as a whole. Also I find that I generally have to listen to a symphony 2-3 times to really absorb it and appreciate it. 

For example, my favorite symphony is Mahler's 2nd (his 9th is a close second, that I saw you mention you like!), but the first time I heard it I didn't think anything of it and wrote it off as not being my taste. However, each subsequent time I listened to it, I grew to love it more and more, and also hear small nuances in the music that I didn't notice before. That was what really got me interested in symphonies, and from there I just started listening to all of the symphonies by other major composers, usually starting with the most popular and working towards the more obscure. It may be that you just truly don't like the form, but with such a huge amount of variety in terms of styles and sounds, I'm sure there are quite a few out there that would suit your tastes!


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

First off, I would say some don't care for opera, and others will not touch a string quartet recording, so I would say that no genre is indispensable for a rich musical life. Symphonies are large scale, 'occasional' works which put instrumental music on equal footing with opera between 1770 and 1827, but the symphony is merely a sonata for orchestra, at least if it is cast in that 18th century mould as could be said of most symphonic writers even into the 20th century. The Shostakovich 5th, for example, is a neo-classic as well as a neo-romantic work. In most cases symphonies, because they were intended for large audiences and large spaces, are drawn in bolder strokes than say a string quartet (excepting the symphonies written by Beethoven where no passages seem to be merely rhetorical). I would suggest the Haydn 'Paris' symphonies, Mozart #38, and 39, and the Beethoven 4th as excellent examples of symphonic composition. If you enjoy reading scores while you listen, by all means do so, but I do not believe it is necessary. If you can appreciate the sublime Mahler 9th, then I think you can find your way to anything.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

This symphony isn't overwhelming in my opinion. It's almost like chamber music. Look at the score you'll see how sparse it is.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Symphonies are my favorite forms after concerti. I don't know that much about the structures, and not all symphonies are created equal (some I also very much struggle to get into, so it can be relatively hit-or-miss).

What I really love about them is all the different voices available via all the different instrumental sections. Strings, woodwinds, brass, percussion, and misc. Hearing all the sections play with or against each other can be a real joy. Or separate parts within the same sections. 

For example, hearing the first violins provide the main melody, as the second violins are playing some contrapunctal line, with the violas/cellos providing a bassline, then having some winds second the melody, with some of the brass accompanying the bass or melody at opportune times; that can be such a thrill.

Honestly, though, the best way to appreciate a symphony is in the concert hall. You can hear things much more clearly and appreciate the different sections playing. That's how I started actually enjoying Mozart symphonies (it sounded too lightweight beforehand, perhaps because I wasn't listening properly).

Symphonies that I love but also find very accessible: Tchaikovsky's 5th, Dvorak's 9th, Saint-Saens' 3rd, Sibelius' 2nd.

Perhaps I will provide examples later on of moments that really sell symphonies for me.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

As with any other music, knowing the story behind the music helps me connect with it. Esp. if it's on a large scale like Mahler's 9th. Eg. did you know that the opening is a musical depiction of Mahler's heart condition, causing odd heart beats? Arrythmia, I think it's called. The climax that comes later, this shattering clash, is said to predict his own death from this condition. Then there's how the "ewig" repeated (eternity) ending of_ The Song of the Earth _echoes that heartbeat effect. Composer's works are inevitably all linked, these can be good to appreciate/know too.

Things like that open up this potentially daunting stuff for me a bit. So I think that a good idea is to read about the history and story behind these works. Quality over quantity is what's important for me. Know fewer things in depth, but I mean as in-depth as I can (in my case, as a non-musician). I agree with what was said above, esp. in terms of going to live concerts...


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I think that perhaps the most important thing you can do is to give every symphony you listen to more than one listen. Familiarity increases the pleasure derived from symphonies. Some symphonies no matter how often you listen just may not be your cup of tea. Keep a list of symphonies you do find enjoyable. 

Also as Sid suggested getting to know some of the history of a piece can enhance the experience. Reading the liner notes before and maybe during is one way to accomplish that. Another is to purchase a good concert companion guide book. One of my favorites is called "Listen To The Music" by Jonathan Kramer. His notes are really very good and have immensely helped my appreciation of many pieces.

Kevin


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Oh...I would also add that Llyranor says the best way to appreciate them is to attend live concerts. I certainly agree with that but would also state that familiarity with the pieces being performed makes that attendance a much better experience. 

Kevin


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

It's also true that some forms of music speak to us better than others, depending on our personality. Mahler said that as a modernist, he needed a big musical machinery even to express little things. I feel a little like that: to me, life is a big and messy, self-contradictory thing; I like music that sounds like that. I gravitate towards symphonies, Wagner operas and rich, huge, theatrical orchestral/choral pieces. I sometimes have trouble appreciating small, intimate and condensed things, like solo instrument pieces and even chamber music.

So, try to open your mind in respect to symphonies, but don't get disappointed if they don't speak to you like other forms of music do. Nothing wrong with that.

Here's a quick and fairly obvious list of different symphonies to get started: Mozart 38-41, Beethoven 3, Schubert 5, 8 and 9, Schumann 1, Brahms 1, Dvorak 9, Saint-Saëns 3, Bruckner 4, Tchaikovsky 6, Rachmaninov 2, Nielsen 4, Sibelius 1, 5 and 7.


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

You guys are awesome. I listened to the symphonies that were recommended on the thread numerous times (especially the Mozart ones), and I've felt that symphonic music really speaks a lot to me now; maybe not in the intense emtoion that chamber music gives me, but certainly in the journeys it takes me through. It is a great feeling.


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