# Johannes Brahms - Symphony 1



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece? What are, according to you, the best recordings?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Why even bother rating it? I guess you could ask how much someone likes it or not, but Brahms 1 is an undisputed masterpiece of the highest order and has been recognized as such since the first rIead-through. It's one warhorse that I will actually go to a concert to hear, and it's a blast to play. The contrabassoon part is exceptional.

There are so many great recordings, and few duds. Some of my favorites: Munch/Boston, Mackerras/RSNO, Jochum/EMI, Barenboim/Chicago, Leinsdorf/Boston. Brahms was never a strong point with Bernstein and Karajan frankly wasn't all that good either. If I could only keep one Brahms 1: Ormandy on Sony. Ormandy was a great Brahms conductor.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

My favorite interpretations---all in stereo:

Van Beinum/Amsterdam (Royal) Concertgebouw Orchestra
Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra
Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra (his 1959 Columbia recording)


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Certainly all the Brahms symphonies are better than "good;" any musicological guide rates them with the best ever written and as good as any other of their time and style.

Brahms destroyed all his early work so his First symphony is first in name only. It is perhaps the most consistently dramatic of his symphonies. Like everything he wrote it can be interpreted in a number of ways -- from youthful fire and intensity to aged philosophizing. One only has to listen to variable performances to hear both styles.

This work isn't in my collection or playlist any longer and the performance I last heard I most enjoyed with from Karel Ancerl and Czech Philharmonic Orchestra. I'd put that performance in the youthful fire category akin to Toscanini and others.


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## LKB (Jul 27, 2021)

Brahms' Symphony No. 1... meh.

I'll take no.'s 3, 4 and 2 beforehand, please.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Brahms destroyed some early (and not only early!) works but I have never heard that a completed orchestral symphony was among them. After all, he published a bunch of works before the 1st symphony that could be considered "symphonic" (1st piano concerto that apparently was planned a symphony originally, the two serenades, the Haydn variations and several choral works with large orchestra).


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Next time, can you do a Brahms work that is less popular-- not a warhorse-- like the Double Concerto or one of the piano trios? Because you're not going to get interesting results from a poll rating a work that is universally loved by audiences _and _critics.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted good, the others are better .


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ORigel said:


> Next time, can you do a Brahms work that is less popular-- not a warhorse-- like the Double Concerto or one of the piano trios? Because you're not going to get interesting results from a poll rating a work that is universally loved by audiences _and _critics.


Universal? No, sir! Wagner could vomit on manuscript paper and it would be better than this trash. 🤮


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> Why even bother rating it? I guess you could ask how much someone likes it or not, but Brahms 1 is an undisputed masterpiece of the highest order and has been recognized as such since the first rIead-through. It's one warhorse that I will actually go to a concert to hear, and it's a blast to play. The contrabassoon part is exceptional.


Do you think Brahms was paying homage to another great symphony in C minor (Beethoven) with the contrabassoon part? The thought occurred to me just now!

Klemperer conducting the Brahms 1st Symphony is one of my true treasures. There is the same great articulation and perfect tempo as there is with yet another great C minor symphony, the Mahler 2nd.

I have no Bruckner conducted by Klemperer! I must get me some.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

There are two train horn honks from bar 392 to 395.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The First Symphony was the first Brahms music I ever heard, as a young teen listening to "classical" radio. I don't recall the performers, but the work captured my attention and never let go. Shortly after that experience I purchased a box set of the four symphonies as performed by Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony. The set has never disappointed me. I've meanwhile gone on to hear more interpretations of the Brahms First and each one has proved formidable. The symphony is simply one of the great ones. I still think of the work as "Beethoven's Tenth" and I suspect Beethoven would have liked it, maybe even have been a touch intimidated by it, and _nothing_ in music intimidated Beethoven, with the possible exception of some Bach. And there you have it: the three B's -- Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms! (Peter Cornelius had it miserably wrong when he put Berlioz into that listing instead of Brahms. Of course, Brahms didn't complete his First Symphony until some 20 years after Cornelius published his "three B's", so I suspect we can't be too harsh towards him.) 

The Brahms First? One of the greatest symphonies of them all.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

All of Brahms's symphonies are among the greatest ever written. As for the best recordings, there are many. The conductors I particularly enjoy in Brahms aren't the ones who go for thrills or even "power" - those qualities are fine but not essential as far as my heart is concerned - but they glow with warmth. So I go with Walter, Abbado, Sanderling, Steinberg (who is also quite thrilling), Rattle (Berlin), Kempe and so on. It is a major masterpiece and there are many different things to say through it but I wouldn't want to lose out on those - they are precious to me.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

When I was building my classical library, Brahms' 1st didn't really click with me. I found it foursquare, colorless, overly dramatic, an updated resume of all the negative traits of Beethoven's middle period.
What made me revise my opinion about the work, even put it upside down, were a couple of brilliant performances. There was a live video by Barenboim and the Berlin Phil, taped in Oxford about 20 years ago - and that was an eye- (or ear-?) opener of the first rate. Exciting, fluent, lyrical where it needed to be, gripping... I loved it. After that I returned to the various 1st's in my collection and found much to admire, but it remains a piece that needs a strong vision to become alive.
My favorite 1st is Van Beinum, CGO.



Waehnen said:


> I have no Bruckner conducted be Klemperer! I must get me some.


Klemperer's Bruckner 4th is my go-to version of this symphony, together with Bohm, Konwitschny and Jochum (both DG and EMI)
The Philharmonia studio recording is excellent, but there's a live Bavarian radio performance that ads just a little bit more tension and excitement. Both versions are indispensable.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

No.3 is top of the pile for me among the Brahms symphonies but Karajan's magnificently dark, craggy 1964 recording of no.1 with the Berlin Phil is my single favourite recording of any of them.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Waehnen said:


> Do you think Brahms was paying homage to another great symphony in C minor (Beethoven) with the contrabassoon part? The thought occurred to me just now!
> 
> I have no Bruckner conducted by Klemperer! I must get me some.


No...the bass line is so important in Brahms so he reinforces it with the only orchestral instrument of digging that low with the necessary volume. He wrote contra parts well and uses it carefully. The Beethoven contra parts (5 & 9) are poorly written for the instrument. In the 5th you cannot hear it in most recordings or concerts. The part in the 9th is virtually unplayable.

Klemperer/Brucker: get the 6th. In the 60 years since he made it, that is still the best recording of that work.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> Klemperer/Brucker: get the 6th. In the 60 years since he made it, that is still the best recording of that work.


I'm too fond of Sawallisch and Keilberth (among others) to call it the absolute best, but it's definitely up there. Klemperer is one of the few conductors who gets the difficult finale absolutely right. I just think the adagio could use some more breathing room.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

Brahms’ First Symphony is an excellent piece of music and it was my introduction to his music. All four Symphonies are excellent, though I tend to favour his Second at present.

My preferred recordingof the First Symphony is Otto Klemperer & the Philharmonia. This wasn’t my first recording but it has made the strongest impression.

I also enjoy Sergiu Celibidache & the Münchner Philharmoniker as well as an earlier recording with an Italian Television/Radio Symphony Orchestra (I forget the exact name and I don’t have the discs to hand).

Leonard Bernstein & the Wiener Philharmoniker is superb as is any recording by Günter Wand. Stanislaw Skrowaczewski with the Saarbrucken forces also offers a superb performance - as does Klaus Tennstedt in a live recording on the London Philharmonic Orchestra’ own label.

For something different I also enjoy Charles Mackerras’ performance with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. An excellent performance with a little extra transparency.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Universal? No, sir! Wagner could vomit on manuscript paper and it would be better than this trash. 🤮


I feel the same way about much of Wagner's music.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Emotionally, it's my favorite of his, maybe because it's the first I encountered or because it's the most dramatic. It's slightly flawed in the dramatic arch because the first movement already ends in a resolution, so he has to whip up some storm again at the beginning of the last. Musically, this is all great but it doesn't really make a lot of dramatic sense, especially because the two middle movements are comparably "light" with little drama. (not ENOUGH middle Beethoven, rather than too much )
The very beginning is a great favorite of mine, maybe the most tense and thunderous introduction of any symphony and then the plaintive oboe solo. And it was apparently added later! Supposedly in the original plan (shown to and commented on by Clara) the movement first started rather abruptly with what became the fast section.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I feel the same way about much of Wagner's music.


I love a lot of Wagner; the operas are essential listening and provide a lifetime of enjoyment. But...boy, could he write crap. Brahms could never, under any circumstances no matter how hard he tried, write something as terrible and godawful as Polonia, Christopher Columbus, or Rule Brittania. And Brahms couldn't write something like Tristan on his best day.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

mbhaub said:


> I love a lot of Wagner; the operas are essential listening and provide a lifetime of enjoyment. But...boy, could he write crap. Brahms could never, under any circumstances no matter how hard he tried, write something as terrible and godawful as Polonia, Christopher Columbus, or Rule Brittania. And Brahms couldn't write something like Tristan on his best day.


Brahms did not care to write something like Tristan on any day and I am so glad he stuck to abstract music. I love some Wagner (emphasis on some) but his operas are full of long stretches of boredom and Tristan is 99% tedium.

To you, Wagner's operas are essential listening and a lifetime of enjoyment and I can appreciate a different perspective. I could never listen to any of Wagner's operas in its entirety. I have tried but there is just so much that does not present any interest to me. The only way I can enjoy Wagner's music is to listen to a very small selection of music from his operas. I have no idea what anyone hears in Tristan. Anyway, I am not going to write any more about Wagner in this thread since this is a thread about Brahms' 1st and don't want to turn it into a **** match about Brahms vs Wagner (Brahms >>>>> Wagner in my books).


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## Floeddie (8 mo ago)

I just picked up my second version of the 4 Brahms Symphonies done in 2017 by *Robin Ticciati & Scottish Chamber Orchestra. 
*
The 1st movement of the 1st Symphony is delivered at a slightly increased pace, and it is delivered with more punch that what I've heard in the past. I like it a lot.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

Couchie said:


> Universal? No, sir! Wagner could vomit on manuscript paper and it would be better than this trash. 🤮


Couchie - ("trash")???!!! ... No, one can find almost-innumerable instances of pop music that are certain TRASH ... but this fledgling work of young Johannes B has the structure, drama and resolution that we HOPE FOR, in classical music - no?


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

RobertJTh said:


> When I was building my classical library, Brahms' 1st didn't really click with me. I found it foursquare, colorless, overly dramatic, an updated resume of all the negative traits of Beethoven's middle period.
> What made me revise my opinion about the work, even put it upside down, were a couple of brilliant performances. There was a live video by Barenboim and the Berlin Phil, taped in Oxford about 20 years ago - and that was an eye- (or ear-?) opener of the first rate. Exciting, fluent, lyrical where it needed to be, gripping... I loved it. After that I returned to the various 1st's in my collection and found much to admire, but it remains a piece that needs a strong vision to become alive.
> My favorite 1st is Van Beinum, CGO.
> 
> ...


RobertJTh - Thanks for mentioning (the almost-forgotten) Dutchman, van Beinum! ... and the Barenboim, in Brahms' 1st. No one's mentioned Jascha Horenstein, but he had two, remarkable versions ... and I hope no one forgets the "old-timers" ... Toscanini and/or Furtwangler. ... As for Furtwangler, he was once the "pattern" of Daniel Barenboim, who has a great respect for WF. ... Finally, the Bruckner 4th was mentioned. Maybe this is a bit "off-topic", but Pristine Classical has just reissued Furtwangler in one of his 1951 performances. I'm sure Klemperer and others are wonderful, but WF is "the man", in Bruckner, in many instances and ways, and I can specify WHY, hopefully. Opinions only, of course, and thanks.


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