# Antal Dorati Recordings



## starthrower

Hungarian conductor Antal Dorati (1906-1988). What are some of your favorite recordings. I waited too long to start collecting his stuff and much of it is out of print. But I love his Messiaen recordings.


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## wkasimer

Brahms symphonies
Beethoven #7 with the LSO.


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## Haydn70

The Haydn symphonies (complete)
Respighi, Ancient Airs and Dances, Suites 1-3


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## Triplets

Both of his complete Nutcrackers, his Miraculous Mandarin on Decca and all of his Barton on Mercury


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## HenryPenfold

One of a number of very special Antal Dorati CDs in my collection ......


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## Allegro Con Brio

The Stravinsky Firebird is terrific, with astonishingly faithful recorded sound.


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## Merl

I still admire these....


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## gvn

Apart from all the excellent things listed above, I'd also put in a word for his recordings of his own music. Whether he was a good composer I'm not competent to say, but I'm quite sure he was a _real_ composer, not merely a dabbler or imitator.


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## Kreisler jr

- Stravinsky on Mercury (more legendary) or Decca (better sound), especially the Firebird but Le Sacre and Petrouchka are still very good.
- Any other "orchestral spectacular" from his 1980s Decca recordings (Slavonic Dances, Copland etc.)
- Prokofiev: Scythian suite, 5th symphony (Mercury)
- Bartok; I only know the Mercury, not all equally good and some prefer the later Decca 
- Kodaly; admittedly, I got this more for completeness.
- Tchaikovsky orchestral suites (basically the only major recording of this (non-essential) music, I have not heard his highly regarded ballets and symphonies but there is obviously far more competition)

The Haydn symphonies were historically important but what I have heard of them seemed a mixed bag as is to be expected with such a large project. I don't know if they can be sampled by streaming; I'd certainly hesitate buying the whole box; the 4? disc boxes of the early 1990s can still be found used. 
I think his #90 is still one of the best (Rattle probably being the other main contender) but overall the Haydn discography has improved a lot in the almost 50 years since the Dorati was recorded.


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## HenryPenfold

I also have Dorati conducting the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra in Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.


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## Malx

His recordings of Haydn's The Creation & The Seasons are pretty good.


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## jegreenwood

Kreisler jr said:


> - Stravinsky on Mercury (more legendary) or Decca (better sound), especially the Firebird but Le Sacre and Petrouchka are still very good.
> - Any other "orchestral spectacular" from his 1980s Decca recordings (Slavonic Dances, Copland etc.)
> - Prokofiev: Scythian suite, 5th symphony (Mercury)
> - Bartok; I only know the Mercury, not all equally good and some prefer the later Decca
> - Kodaly; admittedly, I got this more for completeness.
> - Tchaikovsky orchestral suites (basically the only major recording of this (non-essential) music, I have not heard his highly regarded ballets and symphonies but there is obviously far more competition)
> 
> The Haydn symphonies were historically important but what I have heard of them seemed a mixed bag as is to be expected with such a large project. I don't know if they can be sampled by streaming; I'd certainly hesitate buying the whole box; the 4? disc boxes of the early 1990s can still be found used.
> I think his #90 is still one of the best (Rattle probably being the other main contender) but overall the Haydn discography has improved a lot in the almost 50 years since the Dorati was recorded.


In addition to owning a handful of the Haydn Symphonies, I can stream all of them on Tidal.


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## Heck148

wkasimer said:


> Beethoven #7 with the LSO.


That's a very good one!!
Some of his recordings with LSO on Mercury are very fine...I esp like the Gunther Schuller - "Studies on Paul Klee" - neat piece...


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## Rmathuln

Both Nutcracker recordings.

The Mercury is one of the very best sounding and has a fabulous Serenade for Strings recording too. I have the SACD version, which is long OOP and mucho expensivo when available. A Complete Dorati Mercury box will surface with Tom Fine supervised remasters. It may be best to wait for that.










The Philips Concertgebouw recording, which has had numerous CD versions over the years, is special because of the orchestra and venue. There is a sumptuous quality to the Philips set that makes it a must have, for me at least.

The original LP cover:










The most recent remaster:


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## Vasks

Agree with the Tchaikovsky Symphonies (I have #1-3).

I too have is BIS CD of his own two symphonies and I would say he was a decent composer.

Here's one not mentioned so far:


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## Knorf

I'm a avowed fan of Doráti's recorded legacy, especially his legendary LSO _Firebird_, Dvořák symphonies of which the LSO Seventh might be my all-time favorite, and his Schönberg/Berg/Webern album, with possibly a best-ever recording of Schönberg's Fünf Orchesterstücke, Op. 16.


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## Endeavour

So many great ones...I'll give a special shout out to this one:








And his ever impressive Haydn symphony cycle.


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## joen_cph

Besides the 20t century stuff already mentioned, *Liszt Christus Oratorium *on Hungaroton.

I'm less of a fan of his Kodaly/Decca, though. For example, there are more engaged and better-sounding versions of the Hary Janos Suite.


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## Josquin13

Great posts, folks. Most everything that I would have mentioned has already been covered--especially Dorati's excellent Bartok & Stravinsky, so there's not much point in my posting.

I don't mean to be a downer but, in my view, Dorati's Haydn Symphonies have been surpassed in the decades since he recorded his cycle--by the likes of Sir Colin Davis, Leonard Bernstein, Adam Fischer, (& maybe Leonard Slatkin & Thomas Fey? whose Haydn gets very well reviewed, but I've not heard it myself); as well as by a multitude of period conductors, who have had the considerable advantage of a more up to date scholarly understanding of the performance practices, instruments, & expectations of Haydn's day--especially Frans Bruggen, Giovanni Antonini, & Christopher Hogwood (but also arguably Sigiswald Kuijken, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Ton Koopman, Trevor Pinnock, Manfred Huss, & Nicholas McGegan...). However, Dorati is still the only conductor to tackle Haydn's operas extensively--with the Orchestre de Chambre Lausanne, for Philips. Surprisingly, no conductor in more recent times has wanted to do a complete series of them, as far as I'm aware. So, from that standpoint, Dorati's 20 CDs covering all of Haydn's opera output (or nearly so?) remains an invaluable survey for Haydn buffs!: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Operas-Various-Artists/dp/B002EPLGWU.

(By the way, I should also mention that Mrs. Antal Dorati, pianist Ilse von Alpenheim recorded an excellent survey of Haydn's Complete Piano Sonatas back in the 1970s, as well--which I would like to see come back into print: 



)


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## gvn

joen_cph said:


> Besides the 20t century stuff already mentioned, *Liszt Christus Oratorium *on Hungaroton.


O, was it _Dorati _who conducted that?! [_Takes it down from the shelves and looks._] So it was. Brilliant, brilliant recording.


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## Triplets

Rmathuln said:


> Both Nutcracker recordings.
> 
> The Mercury is one of the very best sounding and has a fabulous Serenade for Strings recording too. I have the SACD version, which is long OOP and mucho expensivo when available. A Complete Dorati Mercury box will surface with Tom Fine supervised remasters. It may be best to wait for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Philips Concertgebouw recording, which has had numerous CD versions over the years, is special because of the orchestra and venue. There is a sumptuous quality to the Philips set that makes it a must have, for me at least.
> 
> The original LP cover:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most recent remaster:


Wilma Cozart Fine refused to participate in the SACD reissues of the Mercury Catalog, viewing the whole technology as a gimmick. I own 2 of the Paray/Detroit SACDs and actthink they are great sounding


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## jegreenwood

Triplets said:


> Wilma Cozart Fine refused to participate in the SACD reissues of the Mercury Catalog, viewing the whole technology as a gimmick. I own 2 of the Paray/Detroit SACDs and actthink they are great sounding


I, too, own several, including Nutcracker and Firebird and like them a lot.


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## Kiki

Dorati's Le Sacre du printemps on both Mercury and Decca are great accounts.

The Minneapolis account is full of overflowing raw power. It is truly phenomenal. The edgy, squeaky Mercury Living Presence sound may have also contributed to it (in a positive way, perhaps surprisingly). In fact I am not troubled by the dry, rough, dated sound. I am more troubled by the fake soundstage and unnatural highlighting created by Mercury.

On the other hand, his Detroit remake is more refined, less wayward and much slower, but arguably it also hits harder. Decca back in 1981 still produced great recordings, which definitely helps. The wiggling grooves on the LP are also quite a sight.


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## jimsumner

Rmathuln said:


> Both Nutcracker recordings.
> 
> A Complete Dorati Mercury box will surface with Tom Fine supervised remasters. It may be best to wait for that.
> 
> Is this speculation on your part or do you know something that hasn't been announced? I would love for this to happen if for no other reason than to save me the the trouble of tracking down lots of expensive OOP and/or hard-to-find items.


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## gvn

It's also worth remembering that _Choral Music on Record_ listed "Dorati's exciting evocation of the gargantuan 1784 Westminster Abbey Commemoration performance" as one of the five recordings that "a core collection of _Messiah_s should include."









"A sensitive recreation of the spirit, if not the letter, of the 1784 Westminster Abbey Commemoration _Messiah_.... The vast reverberance of the National Cathedral, Washington, DC, is not unlike that of Westminster Abbey, and the performance, under the direction of Antal Dorati, crackles with charisma and excitement.... A particularly fine solo quartet-soprano Edith Mathis, counter-tenor James Bowman, tenor Claes Ahnsjö, and bass Tom Krause-sang the solos.... The Westminster Abbey Commemoration version has been duplicated as exactly as possible in the Dorati recording" (Teri Noel Towe in _Choral Music on Record,_ pp. 78, 100).


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## Rmathuln

jimsumner said:


> Rmathuln said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Nutcracker recordings.
> 
> A Complete Dorati Mercury box will surface with Tom Fine supervised remasters. It may be best to wait for that.
> 
> Is this speculation on your part or do you know something that hasn't been announced? I would love for this to happen if for no other reason than to save me the the trouble of tracking down lots of expensive OOP and/or hard-to-find items.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Tom Fine himself says so, first with the Kubelik recordings that are already available, and then he specifically mentioned that Dorati's Mercury legacy would follow, including many mono recording not previously released officially on CD by Mercury/UMG.
> 
> Eventually the entire catalog will be done.
Click to expand...


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## Triplets

Rmathuln said:


> jimsumner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Tom Fine himself says so, first with the Kubelik recordings that are already available, and then he specifically mentioned that Dorati's Mercury legacy would follow, including many mono recording not previously released officially on CD by Mercury/UMG.
> 
> Eventually the entire catalog will be done.
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 of the three large Mercury boxes that were were released a few years ago, which I believe have the bulk of the Mercury Dorati recordings.I was going to comment that I don't think any further remasterings are required, but then I remembered that I bought a Paray set of the Mercury recordings from a Japanese reissue company that are a distinct improvement over the Mercury set, so why not?
> I lived in Detroit when Dorati took that post and I seem to remember hearing a Firebird recording that was more exciting than the recording that was issued.
Click to expand...


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## jimsumner

Rmathuln said:


> jimsumner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Tom Fine himself says so, first with the Kubelik recordings that are already available, and then he specifically mentioned that Dorati's Mercury legacy would follow, including many mono recording not previously released officially on CD by Mercury/UMG.
> 
> Eventually the entire catalog will be done.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent news. I've been holding off getting some affordable Dorati downloads in hopes that something like this was coming down the pipes. Many thanks.
Click to expand...


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## pianozach

I grew up with this one. Love it to death.






:devil:

As it turns out, Dorati subsequently RErecorded it in STEREO, but THAT was released with an album cover that was almost identical to the first release.


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## Heck148

I've always found the Mercury recordings of Dorati/Minneapolis, Paray/Detroit to be somewhat thin and scrawny sounding...just not enough heft in the brass and lower woodwinds especially....I thought it might be Mercury's recording, but I don't think that holds up - their recordings with Dorati/LSO, Fennell/EastmanWE and Kubelik/Chicago do not suffer from that sonic anemia at all...they sound terrific, overall....
Perhaps it was the recording venues?? or perhaps they simply didn't have the musicians who could put the sound out?? Long. long ago, I heard Paray/Detroit perform Sibelius #2 live in a local theater...it sounded fine [I was in HS at the time].....but I remember how much more sonorous the Ormandy/Phila was when I heard them play the same work live a couple of years later..
but, that was many moons ago, and audio memory is notoriously short-lived.....


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## fluteman

Dorati's Bartok and Kodaly are probably my favorites, but here are two more very good Dorati/LSO LPs I found in the bins over the years that haven't been mentioned yet. You might not think of Dorati as a leading Wagner proponent, but this is one of my favorite Wagner "excerpt" LPs, which is how I like to listen to Wagner. Szeryng recorded the Brahms concerto with Monteux and Haitink as well as Dorati, but I think Dorati's version is especially good.


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## Granate

Hans down his Dvorak. Some Haydn like The Creation and many symphonies.


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## Knorf

Yep. That recording of Dvořák's 7th and 8th is astounding. I bought the CD release for my mom for her birthday, and listen to it at my parents' house every time I'm there, almost. I dunno why I never bought one for me!


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## fluteman

OMG, as my daughter might say. How could I have forgotten this one? Another find from the 50 cent and dollar bins long ago, when good LPs were plentiful. No energy shortage here.


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## JB Henson

Surprised noone's mentioned Dorati's famed recordings of the 2nd and 3rd Rachmaninoff with Byron Janis (his first recordings after getting the boot from RCA in favor of Van Cliburn) yet.


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## Rogerx

JB Henson said:


> Surprised noone's mentioned *Dorati's famed recordings of the 2nd and 3rd Rachmaninoff* with Byron Janis (his first recordings after getting the boot from RCA in favor of Van Cliburn) yet.


One of my favourites, after Ashkenazy/ Haitink


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## Kreisler jr

IIRC one of the two Rachmaninoff concerti with Janis has rather mediocre sound, or maybe more precisely characteristics of several Mercury recordings. Loud tape hiss but otherwise direct and "steely". It's also slightly annoying that the two pieces on the disc have so different sound qualities. This was (one of?) my first Mercury disc and I stopped buying them for a while because I was comparably disappointed but I kept it on the shelves, so apparently every time I thought about getting rid of it, I still found it redeemed by some other qualities...


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## Triplets

Kreisler jr said:


> IIRC one of the two Rachmaninoff concerti with Janis has rather mediocre sound, or maybe more precisely characteristics of several Mercury recordings. Loud tape hiss but otherwise direct and "steely". It's also slightly annoying that the two pieces on the disc have so different sound qualities. This was (one of?) my first Mercury disc and I stopped buying them for a while because I was comparably disappointed but I kept it on the shelves, so apparently every time I thought about getting rid of it, I still found it redeemed by some other qualities...


I purchased these as High Resolution Downloads several years ago, I think from the site HD Tracks. Sonically this will blow your socks off.


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## Kreisler jr

o.k. this might be quite different from the 1990s standard CD issue I got back then.


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## JB Henson

I find the MLP cds sound better on older speakers since they use a style of EQ that Wilma Cozart used in the hi-fi vinyl era. But that's just my opinion. Anyway the new Tom Fine remasters of the Kubelik catalog and bonus discs from Collector's Edition 2 and 3 feature a less aggressive EQ.


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## RobertJTh

This is one of the most fun records in my collection.


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## Heck148

RobertJTh said:


> This is one of the most fun records in my collection.


Yes good stuff, for sure...another Dorati favorite:
Schuller - Paul Klee Studies....really neat piece


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## Geoff48

I think Dorati’s Minneapolis mono Tchaikovsky Ballets were the first opportunity to hear the complete ballets as opposed to the more commonly heard abridgements. It required an extra L.P. For both the Lake and the Beauty but the extra cost was well justified. The recordings which initially were issued on Philips certainly weren’t well recorded, the Sleeping Beauty being by far the worst, and things didn’t improve in the electronically processed stereo bargain reissue on Fontana. The Nutcracker and Swan Lake were included in the Mercury Living Presence big boxes and sounded far better than I remembered but presumably the Sleeping oBeauty couldn’t be resurrected
Incidentally it is now unusual for the ballets not to be issued virtually complete subject only to minor cuts necessary to squeeze them onto two CDs. presumably it is felt that the extra cd required for absolute completeness cannot be justified. A pity!


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## joen_cph

joen_cph said:


> Besides the 20t century stuff already mentioned, *Liszt Christus Oratorium *on Hungaroton.
> 
> I'm less of a fan of his Kodaly/Decca, though. For example, there are more engaged and better-sounding versions of the Hary Janos Suite.


Forgot to mention his classic Pettersson 7th, with the Stockholm PO.


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## Rogerx

I will not take long before Decca makes a box with all his recordings by them and Mercury.


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## vincula

I think his Brahms cycle should get more credit. Some might think it's a bit hard-driven, but it's really exciting as well. Recording is on the "hot" side of neutral, as it's normally the case with most of my Mercury recordings. A bit annoying if you like a warmer balance, as I do.









Regards,

Vincula


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## Brahmsian Colors

All very fine to excellent interpretations.....

Brahms: Symphony 3/London Symphony
Dvorak: Symphony 8/London Symphony
Dvorak: Cello Concerto/w Starker and London Symphony
Stravinsky: Firebird/London Symphony
Stravinsky: Petrouchka/Minneapolis Symphony
Respighi: The Birds and Brazilian Impressions/London Symphony
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker/Amsterdam Concertgebouw
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto no. 3 with Janis and London Symphony
Rimsky-Korsakov: Le Coq d'Or Suite
Haydn: Symphonies (Complete) with the Philharmonia Hungarica


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## Rogerx

Stravinsky: Petrouchka & The Rite of Spring
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker
Enesco & Liszt: Roumanian & Hungarian Rhapsodies
Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture & Capriccio Italian
Respighi: Ancient Airs and Dances, Suites Nos. 1, 2 & 3
Beethoven: Piano Concertos Nos. 4 & 5


Just from the back of my head wit the Respighi as favourite .


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## geralmar




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## 89Koechel

vincula, Brahmsian Colors, RogerX and Mr. geralmar ... and others - Yes, Dorati was a DAMN, FINE man, wasn't he, in his many recordings? I still think he and Mr. Solti (also, from the middle-Europe type of musician/conductor) could be a bit hard-driven, in their legacies, but the latter are very-secure, IMO, in most ways. I don't know where he might STAND, in the overall estimations of great and/or lasting (in estimations) conductors of the post-War period, but he DOES deserve a very-favorable "spot", so to speak - eh?


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## marlow

Get his recordings of Bartok which are very special. 
Also his Nutcracker ballet by Tchaikovsky and the 1812 if you can stand the piece.
Then the Rach 3 with Janis but mainly for the pianist


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## 89Koechel

Nice, marlow! ... Also, a Prokofiev Piano Concerto #3, with the late William Kapell/Detroit Symphony (available in different RCA reissues, or on YouTube).


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## Rogerx

89Koechel said:


> vincula, Brahmsian Colors, RogerX and Mr. geralmar ... and others - Yes, Dorati was a DAMN, FINE man, wasn't he, in his many recordings? I still think he and Mr. Solti (also, from the middle-Europe type of musician/conductor) could be a bit hard-driven, in their legacies, but the latter are very-secure, IMO, in most ways. I don't know where he might STAND, in the overall estimations of great and/or lasting (in estimations) conductors of the post-War period, but he DOES deserve a very-favorable "spot", so to speak - eh?


I agree, on all accounts. :cheers:


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## 89Koechel

Thanks, Rogerx ... and, yes, I DID notice the beer mug ... haha! ... Dorati deserves a TOAST, with Solti ... maybe, also, the short-lived Ferenc Fricsay - eh?


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