# Music history and important works according to...



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

https://www.wolke-verlag.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/amm-inhalt.pdf?fbclid=IwAR21w7kGJKDgzZOMYXOHp-RUXSAuVkzb9t-zLGNWsCzj_m_5VjdcsaLfNbc
...Bernd Asmus, Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf and Johannes Menke. They have just released a new book: "Schlüsselwerke der Musik" (Key works in musical history). I found this list interesting and will be on my way to update my mind and listening.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for posting abut this book. There are many familiar works on the list but also some lesser known ones. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, there is no English version. I suppose I might have to wait for awhile to see one. I will make a list of works I do not know so I can listen to them.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

For Mahler he chose the 10th symphony! And not the previous nine. Or have I misunderstood?

I appreciate his choice for Satie. And the choice for a Barraqué suggests that he’s thought about it rather than just a journalist.

I think given the importance of the Machaut mass it’s bizarre that he chose a motet instead. 

The early music has a fine choice of motets. I think by anyone’s count L’homme armé should be there though. 

He starts too late. You know, there’s no Abelard or Hildegard, there’s no chant at all in fact apart from maybe one page called “anonymous”. Yet this is to pretty well ignore over 500 years of sophisticated and challenging music. 

What is his choice for Gombert I wonder.

Why no Peter Philips, when he’s included Sweelinck. Or indeed Byrd.

He’s poor on keyboard music, I would have thought that Froberger should be in that list somewhere, for example. Is Titelouze too sui generis to be included? Or Grigny. 

He’s also weak on lute and viol. Why no Reusner? Why Marais and not Sainte Colombe? No Tobias Hume or Christopher Tye. 

I wonder why Élisabeth Jacquet de La Guerre is deemed to be “important”


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

Intersting list. Quite a lot of choices I don't agree with, but it _is_ a limited list after all and there's not space for everything. So it goes.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Can anyone direct me to a recording of Ave Rosa Sine Spinis, his choice for Senfl. I can only find Fretwork doing an instrumental transcription. The search is made difficult because Tallis wrote something with the same name.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Can anyone direct me to a recording of Ave Rosa Sine Spinis, his choice for Senfl. I can only find Fretwork doing an instrumental transcription. The search is made difficult because Tallis wrote something with the same name.






This is what I found. Oh...that's Fretwork...I'm hearing Carissimi for the first time.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> https://www.wolke-verlag.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/amm-inhalt.pdf?fbclid=IwAR21w7kGJKDgzZOMYXOHp-RUXSAuVkzb9t-zLGNWsCzj_m_5VjdcsaLfNbc
> ...Bernd Asmus, Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf and Johannes Menke. They have just released a new book: "Schlüsselwerke der Musik" (Key works in musical history). I found this list interesting and will be on my way to update my mind and listening.


Elliott Carter
Pettersson
Henze
all 3 mentioned, 
This is will become a standard reference book for sure. Immensely needed. 
Hope to see it trans to English one day.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Henze for his guitar music!


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## ECraigR (Jun 25, 2019)

Seems to get idiosyncratic in the modern period. For Messiaen, I agree with the quartet, but not the organ music. He has much better organ music, I feel. And Britten they choose The Young Person’s Guide? Also weird.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Is Glenn Gould the only performer who gets listed?


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Can anyone direct me to a recording of Ave Rosa Sine Spinis, his choice for Senfl.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

ECraigR said:


> Seems to get idiosyncratic in the modern period. For Messiaen, I agree with the quartet, but not the organ music. He has much better organ music, I feel. And Britten they choose The Young Person's Guide? Also weird.


I thought the Schnittke selections could have been more wisely chosen,

,,,Henze Royal Water music for guitar was ,,,interesting ,,,lets say,,Masterpiece for sure,,,But I'd have rather see his symphony, 8 maybe, or some other of his masterpieces,,
Instead the choice as representative was for 
One solo guitar? As representative? 
A bit odd if you ask me,,,unless you consider no other mod composer wrote for guitar as did Henze in RWM

the Pettersson was nearly perfect, as his 8th is , perhaps , not sure, hard,,well yes the 8th symphony might hold the center to the entire symphonic cycle. 
A lot of Pettterssonians would have chosen the 7th symphony 100%. 
I am glad the author did not pick the over played 7th symphony. Sure it is Pettersson's most famous, but why push the 7th to death. Let the 8th live a moment in the sunshine.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Choice for Elliott Carter was a grand slam, Symphony For Three Orchestras.
For Hartmann, not a good choice, Prefer to see a symphony.

Now I have been searching for Alfred Schnittke past 10 minutes...would someone please tell me where in Schnittke is located in the list?
Thanks!

If Schnittke is missing, he will have to fire all his proof readers, and I know in his nd edition,,,1st thing he will do, impatiently add, Schnittke to the list. 
Author is most likely turning red with embarrassment upon reading my post just now.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


>


Are you sure that's Senfl? it doesn't mention Senfl on the cover.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

They have chosen Gubaidulina over Schnittke. Gubaidulina is a really great composer! No need to quarrel over a book in German! See the list as a starting point for further investigation.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Are you sure that's Senfl? it doesn't mention Senfl on the cover.


Yes it is, I found a performance here, and I like the one you found.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> This is what I found. Oh...that's Fretwork...I'm hearing Carissimi for the first time.


There's a real curiosity with some Carissimi, this puppy


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

paulbest said:


> Author is most likely turning red with embarrassment upon reading my post just now.


You really need to seek help.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Too few selections for me for each composer. I did not find the list that satisfying. I see no reason why it should be so limited. Too many works left out. Only the First Ballade by Chopin and that’s it? It wasn’t that significant in his career, though highly praised, but his Etudes and Preludes were groundbreaking. No room for those? Perhaps with lesser known composers the list is more valuable. Overall, I found the list too limited and disappointing. Perhaps it’s intended for readers who are just starting out. I would consider a good list one that lists the important works that make you inspired to hear more of each composer.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The choices are erudite, it would have to be the case that the book is a supporting argument. I mean, why on earth, for example, is that motet by Senfl _important_? There may well be a good reason for the choice - something technical or a historical anecdote or something which triggered influences. But you can't tell by listening to the music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Larkenfield said:


> Overall, I found the list too limited and disappointing. Perhaps it's intended for readers who are just starting out. I would consider a good list one that lists the important works that make you inspired to hear more of each composer.


Why doesn't it inspire you to use it for all the suggestions from the C16 and before?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree with these...Debussy Preludes, Schoenberg First Chamber Symphony, Schumann Symphony Nr. 4 in D minor, Bach WTC, all the Beethoven except Fidelio....I'm going to check out the Mozart further.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> The choices are erudite, it would have to be the case that the book is a supporting argument. I mean, why on earth, for example, is that motet by Senfl _important_? There may well be a good reason for the choice - something technical or a historical anecdote or something which triggered influences. But you can't tell by listening to the music.


In their Forward the authors state their aim is to give an overview which will serve to guide and stimulate the listener to hear works that are "worth listening to, interesting or important in musical history". They acknowledge the subjectivity and difficulty involved in making choices, but hope that after curious music lovers - or inquisitive students - have come to know all of this music, they may be sufficiently motivated and stimulated to constantly expand their circle of preferences, because the key works cannot be enough!

As for the Senfl, I have to believe that any listener with a willing ear would be grateful at having been introduced by the authors to one of the most sublime examples of polyphonic writing.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> As for the Senfl, I have to believe that any listener with a willing ear would be grateful at having been introduced by the authors to one of the most sublime examples of polyphonic writing.


It's so Josquin like!


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> It's so Josquin like!


Senfl based the motet's cantus firmus structure on Josquin's _Stabat Mater_ (the tenor voices are identical), which he published in one of the earliest German printed motet collections.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Some here have wondered why particular works were chosen when others might seem more reasonable. If anyone has read some of the discussions on works, could s/he tell us whether the descriptions focused on specific aspects of the works that were important (e.g. from a music theory perspective)? I'm wondering if the authors wanted to point more to features of works that were revolutionary rather than works that were the best? Of course, some works may include both.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> Senfl based the motet's cantus firmus structure on Josquin's _Stabat Mater_ (the tenor voices are identical),


Ahhh! Of course!

So now the question is, why is this Senfl motet more "important" than the Josquin Stabat Mater?


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