# Flac, rar and best way for backing up & using a classical collection



## BELCANTO

Hi Guys,
I hope you can help a relative newbe as far as how best to store music given to me as a gift to increase my classical knowledge and repertoire and save space as well on an external hard drive and what is best practise for the digital era in storing my music properly.

I have recently been buying classical music from various souses like Amazon, Spotfy and other sites but a chance meeting off my old music lecturer (after 15 years ) has opened a whole new world off premium classical music to me that I could never have dreamed off owning never mind affording but has me a little confused in how to go about saving what he kindly has offered me onto my own hard drive system and taking up needless space as once extracted, as a lot will be duplicated in the extracted folders ( ie RAR files, flac files & cue sheets etc, then the transcoded AIFF files.)

My old lecturer has kindly loaned me a 2TB lacie drive off his classical music that is a total dream containing complete sets such as the Philips Complete Mozart Works (180) CD, The Leonard Bernstein Symphony Edition with The New York Symphony (60CD's), Bach Cantatas Box set, Gardiner - SDG Label (51CD's), Horowitz Complete Recordings - The Private Collection (24 CD series), Herbert von Karajan – Complete Recordings on Deutsche Grammophon (240CD's), The Elgar Collection (30CD) along with rare and apparently fantastic Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli piano recordings of Beethoven No.5 Emperor with the Wiener Symphony regarded as a classic and other Michelangeli recordings and a complete Arthur Rubenstein collection.

When I opened each main folder he has each set saved each CD as a RAR files.. so in the Mozart Complete works folder there is 180 RAR files (180CD's) ... 
When they are extracted I get 180 separate folders off various works and in each folder there is a cue sheet and flac file that needs splitting.

I used XLD to use the Fcue sheet to split the flac file add artwork to meta data and then transcode to give a folder off AIFF files which I have been told are nearly the same as a FLAC file (i.e no compression and an identical copy off the original)

So.. in the Mozart Complete Works folder 1, I unzip the RAR file, then I transcode a cue sheet and FLAC file.. so finaly I have in the folder I a RAR file, a cue sheet & flac file and then 15 AIFF files.

My question is for best practise..should i completely delete the RAR files, and the original cue sheet & FLAC file leaving only the AIFF files after i transcode to get the AIFF files?....because if I leave everything intact the whole size of the main complete folder when i convert everything (the whole 180 cd's of the Complete Mozart Works) is 215Gb !! ...with the original RAR files taking up 49Gb off that space which a heck off a lot off space.. so is it best to only leave AIFF files and use those as masters for listening to and for converting to mp4 if i ever need them on my phone..or is it best to be safe and keep the original RAR files in case something unforeseen happens and as I have to give the loaned hard drive back to my lecturer.

As i said I am new to the whole digital music area in terms of the best way to store my music so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. I plan to rip my favourite classical LP's to to flac and also store them as I love the sound from vinyl.. 

I hope I have described my situation simly enough but if you need more info please ask away..and thank you all very much in advance for all your help.
regards

Fergus


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## Pip

I would get a separate drive just to keep the RARs together in case in the future something goes wrong with your uncompressed files.
One should have a backup in any case, suppose the main hard drive is corrupted, or worse invaded. So a separate drive with the RARs would be a good back up. Store it away somewhere safe,dry and not subject to great temperature fluctuations.
I have all my music as Flac files and they are all backed up three times. Once the pain of buying all these hard drives is over, it is a very easy operation to back-up, and then back-up the back-up.
It may well be a long time before you can check(listen) to every one of those CDs, and ,who knows, one or two may have not been completely correctly uncompressed, so don't dispense with the RARs. They are your ultimate back-ups.


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## brotagonist

You say that a friend loaned you his collection, etc. I didn't read it all, as I am not interested (sorry). I get the (possibly mistaken) impression that you are planning to copy your friend's files. What you appear to be involved in is piracy.

Do you know that, with a bit of shopping around, you can buy all of the albums you desire for an average cost (a few higher, many less) of $10-$11.50 per disc, shipped? Sure, it has cost me thousands of dollars, but it's not really that much, considering the size of my collection, the pleasure I get from it, how long I will have the albums (classical music is pretty much a lifetime investment), how long the discs last (if properly cared for), and the number of years I have been collecting. Making music is how some people make their livings. Could you survive without getting paid?


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## sharik

brotagonist said:


> What you appear to be involved in is piracy


but piracy can interfere only with *property* whereas music is nothing but *sounds* that is, air, and how can air be a property?


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## Ukko

"So.. in the Mozart Complete Works folder 1, I unzip the RAR file, then I transcode a cue sheet and FLAC file.. so finaly I have in the folder I a RAR file, a cue sheet & flac file and then 15 AIFF files."

1) As Brotagonist says, you are making illegal copies, i.e. it is piracy. That said - if you wish to continue -

2) Obtain your own external drive(s) and copy the lecturer's drive to it.

3) Do all that other stuff you are talking about, for whatever reason. Apple Lossless and FLAC both create compressed files - that are lossless. AIFF is a proprietary app, FLAC is open-source. AIFF is slightly more efficient than FLAC.

There is (seemingly never-ending) debate about whether lossless compression offers any audible advantage over high bit-rate lossy compression schemes, in situations when the files will not be subjected to noise reduction processing later. If you are interested in that issue, _bigshot_ may be willing to give directions.

Make sure you enjoy the project, whatever you do, eh?


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## Ukko

sharik said:


> but piracy can interfere only with *property* whereas music is nothing but *sounds* that is, air, and how can air be a property?




The subject music is highly processed 'air', and during the process copyrighted.


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## sharik

Ukko said:


> The subject music is highly processed 'air', and during the process copyrighted


copyright is a Fascism.


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## KenOC

sharik said:


> copyright is a Fascism.


Right. And "property is theft." Yawn...


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## sharik

KenOC said:


> Right. And "property is theft." Yawn...


you yawn while they tax your property until it gets you ripped off.


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## KenOC

sharik said:


> you yawn while they tax your property until it gets you ripped off.


In my country, taxes on property are local and pay for schools and other local needs. Any increases must be approved by popular vote. I think you may be uninformed.


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## sharik

KenOC said:


> In my country, taxes on property are local and pay for schools and other local needs. Any increases must be approved by popular vote. I think you may be uninformed.


i'm well informed of the political circus and corruption that rule in 'your country' where they first raise taxes and then get themselves voted out but the next government comes only to keep intact what its predecessors had done already.


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## BELCANTO

Hi guys, thank you for all the replies and comments. 
Regardless off what some here think, and with respect, this is not a deliberate act off piracy for gain in any way..etc as having read a lot off the terms related to this word from all the governing copyright bodies and this music i will process is for my own personal use for listening and not for commercial gain, publication or distribution etc..where the main act of piracy occurs especially with P2P.. I know many will not agree with me but The various gov bodies more or less ay they turn a blind eye for copies being made for personal use i.e for 2nd or 3rd copies being made for the car, ipod or 2nd computer which is no different than what i am doing here...but the whole 'piracy' issue and copyright issue is a whole other debate. 

This was a kind gift and offer from an old friend and is as far as i am concerned I am extremely grateful as with being made redundant and having a young family to provide for, my money goes there first. Regardless off what some say, you could never pick up any off these sets complete cheaply so I am very thankful for the kindness of a friend.

PIP.. Thank you very much or the quick reply...I appreciate what you have said about keeping the RAR files and that makes sense..however do i still keep the flac and cue sheet that where made when the rar file was unzipped seeing i am keeping the rar files? or bin them and just keep the made AIFF files? sorry if I haven't understood your answer completely.

UKKO - Thank you for the detailed info regarding compressed files and yes there is a whole debate i see on this issue but for me i probably couldn't tell the difference as you say and for me aiff is more easily played on various devices including itunes where at the minute flac is not. But I will as you say..enjoy the project off unzipping and processing this music as it will only serve to enhance my classical awareness and appreciation off this wonderful music! 
Thank you again for all the responses and thoughts on this..


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## Guest

BELCANTO said:


> ..
> 
> My old lecturer has kindly loaned me a 2TB lacie drive off his classical music that is a total dream containing complete sets such as the Philips Complete Mozart Works (180) CD, The Leonard Bernstein Symphony Edition with The New York Symphony (60CD's), Bach Cantatas Box set, Gardiner - SDG Label (51CD's), Horowitz Complete Recordings - The Private Collection (24 CD series), Herbert von Karajan - Complete Recordings on Deutsche Grammophon (240CD's), The Elgar Collection (30CD) along with rare and apparently fantastic Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli piano recordings of Beethoven No.5 Emperor with the Wiener Symphony regarded as a classic and other Michelangeli recordings and a complete Arthur Rubenstein collection.
> 
> When I opened each main folder he has each set saved each CD as a RAR files.. so in the Mozart Complete works folder there is 180 RAR files (180CD's) ...
> When they are extracted I get 180 separate folders off various works and in each folder there is a cue sheet and flac file that needs splitting.
> 
> I used XLD to use the Fcue sheet to split the flac file add artwork to meta data and then transcode to give a folder off AIFF files which I have been told are nearly the same as a FLAC file (i.e no compression and an identical copy off the original)
> 
> So.. in the Mozart Complete Works folder 1, I unzip the RAR file, then I transcode a cue sheet and FLAC file.. so finaly I have in the folder I a RAR file, a cue sheet & flac file and then 15 AIFF files.
> 
> My question is for best practise..should i completely delete the RAR files, and the original cue sheet & FLAC file leaving only the AIFF files after i transcode to get the AIFF files?....


It's up to you to investigate the copyright issue but if you decide to go ahead and copy then it sounds like you've given yourself a headache over nothing. The main job of converting from the original CDs to digital files has already been done for you, so why not buy yourself a 2-3 Gb hard drive and copy the whole lot as it is presently formatted set up using a USB3 connection. This should be quite speedy and reliable, and would seem to be most obvious and sensible solution, wouldn't it?

If you try to convert each of the contents to Flac or any other format, it'll probably take for ages, and the whole thing could go awry given the great volume of material you have. I can't see that there would any gain in doing this compared with leaving things as they are.

If you do this then the issue of quality doesn't arise but, that aside, I suspect you wouldn't notice any difference between the original or any other lossless format and something like AAC or even MP3 at a high quality seeting, e.g. VBR V0 setting. With such higher quality lossy formats you might possibly notice a small adverse quality difference compared with the original but only (i) for some music (ii) if you have really good ears and (iii) are using quite exotic hi-fi equipment (iv) in ideal listening conditions, but otherwise I suspect you wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all.


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## BELCANTO

Hi there Partita, thank you for your answer, but I don't think with repect you read the whole question ... yes i can copy everything as it is..and that is what i will do onto a 2TB hard drive i have in the house... but as everything stands you cant listen to any off it without opening a folder and uncompressing the original RAR file!! each set i.e The complete Mozart Works has 180 RAR files (1 RAR file for each CD he converted) which needs unzipped..once that's done you have a folder with a flac file and cue sheet which needs splitting into individual tracks for listening! i have uncompressed the Mozart Works and it sits at 215Gb !! so I was asking if there is a need to keep the rar file and the flac `7 cue sheet after i get the aiff files after using xld to split the cue sheet as i will have file duplicated in the original rar, the flac and cue sheet and the final aiff's.

I appreciate what you say about the compression issues but i have indeed noticed a huge difference in sound with mp3 file bought off amazon ans spotify compared with an original CD of the music that's why I am tending to go with flac or aiff for main listening. Thank you again for taking time to answer..


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## quack

AIFF is uncompressed audio whereas FLAC is compressed but lossless (meaning no information is lost during compression unlike mp3 or acc). Converting AIFF to FLAC is a waste of time, you will not improve quality and you will waste a lot of space.

What you should do with the files is largely dependent on your equipment. If you have a media player capable of using FLAC you may as well keep them like that. Either split them into individual FLACs with the CUE file or some players allow you to play the single large FLAC as if it is already split. If you navigate directories to access your files then good organisation is important but if you access via your media player library the file structure will not matter to you.

Clementine on Mac (i'd assume you are on Mac) or foobar on PC allow this CUE file reading and will organise your files.

If you have lots of space: unrar and play the FLAC (split or not). If you have less space: unrar and split to mp3 or acc. Even less space: unrar to FLAC and delete rars. Least space: split to mp3 and delete rars.


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## Guest

BELCANTO said:


> ...I was asking if there is a need to keep the rar file and the flac `7 cue sheet after i get the aiff files after using xld to split the cue sheet as i will have file duplicated in the original rar, the flac and cue sheet and the final aiff's.


I now appreciate your point but can't see why you might want to keep anything but the flac files. That's all you need in order to play the files, which would seem to be your main requirement. To save you time, have you checked with the person who loaned you the drive that he doesn't have another one with all the material already de-compressed in a readily playable form? Perhaps, however, he still uses the CDs primarily, and only transferred the contents to hard drive as a back-up.

I'm surprised to hear about your experience with an Amazon MP3 file compared with the original CD. What was the bit rate of the MP3? If it was downloaded some time ago it might be at around 128 kbps, in which case it probably would sound pretty ropy for classical music. But if it's a more modern download they're usually at around 256 kbps, some at 320 kbps. At these higher bit rates they sound OK to me. Of course, AAC is more efficient than MP3, so that for any given bit rate AAC would be better. Therefore at a level of about 256 or 320 kbps AAC you should be getting very high quality.

Most of my collection has been transferred to a computer hard drive mainly in high bit-rate MP3 format, but that's because I started this process several years ago and have remained with it. It's a convenient format to use as so much equipment is compatible with it. I have a few files in AAC but don't notice any improvement over MP3. However, if I was to start over, I'd use Flac because computer storage is so cheap these days that there is no need to compromise, even if the sound quality gains are probably small or non-existent as far I'm concerned compared with a high quality lossy format.


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## realdealblues

I have my Classical Music backed up on on a dozen 2TB drives. Mine is mostly in APE but some are FLAC. I find FLAC takes a little more space and I find if something has an umlaut or an a "non English" character it freaks out. I try to use APE for everything now and I like the program itself better for compressing and decompressing files. I don't use cue sheets or rar files or any of that stuff myself. I just have them in folders so I can go in and click on the individual file I want to listen to without having to use Foobar or something to load the cue file. Probably not everyone's cup of tea but it works for what I do.


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## BELCANTO

Hi there Quack, 
just wanted to say a big thank you for your reply and input..this is a great help and exactly what i was looking to hear..sorry for the delayed reply to thank you but was in hospital for a small procedure.. but did not want to seem rude in not acknowledging your response. I won't be converting from AIFF to FLAC but from flac to AIFF (as there is a flac and cue sheet to split in every folder) using the settings in xld, or as you say if needed I'll compress the tracks to mp3 if i want them on a phone etc but I still like to use aiff on my iphone if i have enough room!.
I set the settings in xld to convert to AIFF..I take it this is the best option for listening if I didn't have Clementine or Fluke etc for listening to FLAC files? just for my information?

I am on a mac as you rightly said and i had been using fluke along with itunes for listening to flac files but i have had a quick look at Clementine that you suggested and it is exactly what I am looking for and need with the added library function.. it plays FLAC files beutifully..but I'll need to spend a little time to get to know the program so a big thank you for your pointer to this application.
I am relatively new to the whole digital music listening, converting and playing arena so any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
I am also going to convert some off my rare LP's and would love to share them with the kind guys on here who offered help and support but i guess some would frown on that lol but i think a lot of music should be able to be shared with a community who loves and appreciates the genere especially when you can't get the recording on CD !!

Again thank you very much for your help with this... hope you have a good weekend 
regards

Fergus


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## quack

Well you are welcome to use any file format you like but I think AIFF on a phone is unnecessary. The DAC (digital analogue converter, the thing that makes the file listenable) most likely isn't of high enough quality on a phone to make uncompressed audio worthwhile. Added to that the likely listening environment, out and about with background noise, means the difference between lossy and lossless audio will not be discernible.

Converting from FLAC to AIFF is simply inflating the file for no advantage. If you want the best quality to listen in iTunes or other software that does not support FLAC then convert to ALAC which is pretty much identical to FLAC, merely Apple's licensed version of the file format. You could convert all your FLACs to ALAC to make them more Mac friendly and converting them back to FLAc should not loose any quality. You should investigate what files your phone can handle but as I say AIFF isn't really any advantage.

While sharing rare LPs would be very nice of you I am not sure the moderators will appreciate it 

Hope you are well.


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## Albert7

I have been using ALAC format strictly for backing up my CD collection (plus some gems from my stepdad for albums we share).


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## bigshot

For backup, either preserve the original CD or archive flac or alac files. For listening on an iPod, use AAC at a high (256 vbr or higher) bitrate.


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