# Favourite Dvorak "American" Quartet Recording



## userfume

Dvorak's "American" Quartet is one of the most famous and loved string quartets, because it is both incredibly wonderfully written but also is simply very easy to listen to with its memorable pentatonic melodies. My favourite movements are the 1st and 4th, which cheers me up every time. To me the best recording is by the Cleveland Quartet: (however I cannot find a digital way to get this except on youtube  )




They choose exactly the right tempo, and give each movement life without being eccentric (like the Borodin Quartet's version). They also have a few quirks, like doing a glissando in the climax of the 4th movement. All in all, I think it is an amazing recording.
What about you?


----------



## Head_case

The Cleveland Quartet are indeed fine, although perhaps in the same deft league as the Carmina Quartet (Switzerland). They lose some of the delicate flavouring by playing rather too fast for my taste. 

The old fashioned Vlach Quartet (Czech) is my favourite: the seamless blending and phrasing are out of this world; they make the Cleveland Quartet come across as having ADHD.

Of the modern recordings, Josef Vlach's daughter, Jana Vlachova, now leads the Vlach Quartet Prague whose Naxos release is very accomplished. The overall architecture of the quartet's playing speaks more than the fine details of her father's playing, but both are very fine. In the original, witness the pulsating second movement's emotional expansion into an enveloping flower.

The Prazak Quartet has to be the most resoundingly detailed recording I've ever heard. Their phrasing fits in between the old world players (the Vlach Quartet) and the contemporary generation of string quartet players on an acid trip. Although the Talich Quartet was a Diapason D'Or winner when it came out, I've lost my love for this recording. It is fine, but offers nothing that the earlier Vlach Quartet or the Prazak Quartet reveals in insightful glances across the landscape of the quartet. 

Of the Czech quartets, the Panocha Quartet recording is my preferred one over the Prague City Quartet (or Prager Streichquartett). The unusual Sedlacek Quartet radio recordings is incredible - for a never released CD, the accentuation on dynamics produce an emotional rendition in this version. This one seems to share more in common with the Cleveland Quartet which you like. 

I'm not a fan of non-native Czech players attempting this Czech classic. They would have to be really exceptional to play better than the native Czech. That's just my quirk about classical music (although there are exceptions of course). Consequently, all the versions of this I've kept are all Czech quartet ensembles.


----------



## moody

Head_case said:


> The Cleveland Quartet are indeed fine, although perhaps in the same deft league as the Carmina Quartet (Switzerland). They lose some of the delicate flavouring by playing rather too fast for my taste.
> 
> The old fashioned Vlach Quartet (Czech) is my favourite: the seamless blending and phrasing are out of this world; they make the Cleveland Quartet come across as having ADHD.
> 
> Of the modern recordings, Josef Vlach's daughter, Jana Vlachova, now leads the Vlach Quartet Prague whose Naxos release is very accomplished. The overall architecture of the quartet's playing speaks more than the fine details of her father's playing, but both are very fine. In the original, witness the pulsating second movement's emotional expansion into an enveloping flower.
> 
> The Prazak Quartet has to be the most resoundingly detailed recording I've ever heard. Their phrasing fits in between the old world players (the Vlach Quartet) and the contemporary generation of string quartet players on an acid trip. Although the Talich Quartet was a Diapason D'Or winner when it came out, I've lost my love for this recording. It is fine, but offers nothing that the earlier Vlach Quartet or the Prazak Quartet reveals in insightful glances across the landscape of the quartet.
> 
> Of the Czech quartets, the Panocha Quartet recording is my preferred one over the Prague City Quartet (or Prager Streichquartett). The unusual Sedlacek Quartet radio recordings is incredible - for a never released CD, the accentuation on dynamics produce an emotional rendition in this version. This one seems to share more in common with the Cleveland Quartet which you like.
> 
> I'm not a fan of non-native Czech players attempting this Czech classic. They would have to be really exceptional to play better than the native Czech. That's just my quirk about classical music (although there are exceptions of course). Consequently, all the versions of this I've kept are all Czech quartet ensembles.


You are so right re Czech players and I have all the recordings you mention.


----------



## userfume

Head_case said:


> The Cleveland Quartet are indeed fine, although perhaps in the same deft league as the Carmina Quartet (Switzerland). They lose some of the delicate flavouring by playing rather too fast for my taste.
> 
> The old fashioned Vlach Quartet (Czech) is my favourite: the seamless blending and phrasing are out of this world; they make the Cleveland Quartet come across as having ADHD.
> 
> Of the modern recordings, Josef Vlach's daughter, Jana Vlachova, now leads the Vlach Quartet Prague whose Naxos release is very accomplished. The overall architecture of the quartet's playing speaks more than the fine details of her father's playing, but both are very fine. In the original, witness the pulsating second movement's emotional expansion into an enveloping flower.
> 
> The Prazak Quartet has to be the most resoundingly detailed recording I've ever heard. Their phrasing fits in between the old world players (the Vlach Quartet) and the contemporary generation of string quartet players on an acid trip. Although the Talich Quartet was a Diapason D'Or winner when it came out, I've lost my love for this recording. It is fine, but offers nothing that the earlier Vlach Quartet or the Prazak Quartet reveals in insightful glances across the landscape of the quartet.
> 
> Of the Czech quartets, the Panocha Quartet recording is my preferred one over the Prague City Quartet (or Prager Streichquartett). The unusual Sedlacek Quartet radio recordings is incredible - for a never released CD, the accentuation on dynamics produce an emotional rendition in this version. This one seems to share more in common with the Cleveland Quartet which you like.
> 
> I'm not a fan of non-native Czech players attempting this Czech classic. They would have to be really exceptional to play better than the native Czech. That's just my quirk about classical music (although there are exceptions of course). Consequently, all the versions of this I've kept are all Czech quartet ensembles.


Thank you very much for your opinions! I have listened to and enjoy some of the recordings that you've mentioned, and I'll admit that in comparison to some, the Cleveland Quartet seems a tiny bit speedy and rigid. However, I have a problem of becoming attached to one recording, which causes anything slightly different to seem "not right"  For me, I feel that the quartet should be more lively and upbeat, rather than overly expressive - it makes me think of open fields in American with a brilliantly blue sky and a faint breeze.


----------



## Head_case

moody said:


> You are so right re Czech players and I have all the recordings you mention.


Even the Sedlacek Quartet version??!!

Lol - I thought I was the only person outside of the Czech Republic to be graced with the original radio release version of this. The Sedlacek viola player seems to have gone off on a tangent down the same weirdo path as Karen Leitner, making Mystical Moods relaxation CDs with a new age marketing ploy instead of staying in the classical market 

I first heard the American Quartet when I was 12 years old: I suppose it took me about a decade to suss out that the Borodin Quartet were pretty inauthentic and overvalued in western Europe, and that there were better versions. One of the first concert experiences of the Dvorak string quartet no. XII I heard was by the Wihan Quartet, who play this in their concert repertoire in London regularly. I never bought the CD, partly for fear of it destroying my vivid recollection of it being played live, and sitting less than 5 metres from the first violinist (it was more deafening than a rock concert!! )

You're absolutely spot on - I find it hard to settle on 'the one' recording. The richness of a composer's score, is that it is open for interpretation. Which is the best interpretation? The philosopher of hermeneutics Gadamer argues, that the best one is the one that fuses in the horizon where my eyes meet.

This seems unsatisfactorily narrow. I tend to concur with Paul Ricoeur who argues for precisely the opposite of Gadamer: each interpretation, enrichens our lived experience of the music in our head. By listening to multiple interpretations, the best version, is the one I assemble through my ears, in my head_case.

This is only possible, if I experience many different versions. I know some will see this as decadently bourgeois and rich to the point of pointlessness, however this is how powerful music should instill in us....a passion for discovering every interpreted morsel of the composer's string quartet which we love.


----------



## Vaneyes

Stamitz Qt.

View attachment 12422


----------



## moody

Head_case said:


> Even the Sedlacek Quartet version??!!
> 
> Lol - I thought I was the only person outside of the Czech Republic to be graced with the original radio release version of this. The Sedlacek viola player seems to have gone off on a tangent down the same weirdo path as Karen Leitner, making Mystical Moods relaxation CDs with a new age marketing ploy instead of staying in the classical market
> 
> I first heard the American Quartet when I was 12 years old: I suppose it took me about a decade to suss out that the Borodin Quartet were pretty inauthentic and overvalued in western Europe, and that there were better versions. One of the first concert experiences of the Dvorak string quartet no. XII I heard was by the Wihan Quartet, who play this in their concert repertoire in London regularly. I never bought the CD, partly for fear of it destroying my vivid recollection of it being played live, and sitting less than 5 metres from the first violinist (it was more deafening than a rock concert!! )
> 
> You're absolutely spot on - I find it hard to settle on 'the one' recording. The richness of a composer's score, is that it is open for interpretation. Which is the best interpretation? The philosopher of hermeneutics Gadamer argues, that the best one is the one that fuses in the horizon where my eyes meet.
> 
> This seems unsatisfactorily narrow. I tend to concur with Paul Ricoeur who argues for precisely the opposite of Gadamer: each interpretation, enrichens our lived experience of the music in our head. By listening to multiple interpretations, the best version, is the one I assemble through my ears, in my head_case.
> 
> This is only possible, if I experience many different versions. I know some will see this as decadently bourgeois and rich to the point of pointlessness, however this is how powerful music should instill in us....a passion for discovering every interpreted morsel of the composer's string quartet which we love.


No ,I haven't got the Sedlacek version

By the way the Dvorak Quartet's recordings are very,very good.


----------



## Quartetfore

An outstanding recording is the one by the Pavel Haas String Quartet. They are right on the mark, and the recording its self is very good..


----------



## Guest

I also have the new Pavel Haas String Quartet recording on Supraphon, and it is my favorite. I would highly recommend it.


----------



## Quartetfore

I think that the recording was named Chamber Music recording of the year by G.Phone last year, or the year before.


----------



## userfume

After much more listening to different recordings - I conclude that for me, the best performance is in fact by the Cleveland Quartet. I disagree that they lose any significant delicacy or passion, and it is wrong to assume that just because they are not Czech players, they cannot understand the music.
Thus, why isn't their recording on iTunes? Loads of their recordings for many other quartets are there, but not this... I have to listen to the YouTube version. I would really like to purchase this recording digitally. Can anyone find it? THnkas


----------



## Head_case

How about the CD version?

http://www.amazon.com/Antonin-Dvorak-Quartets-Nos-12/dp/B000003CXV

Great to hear you've defined a favourite. Remember this moment, and when you revisit this page in 20 years time, see if you still think it's your favourite version.

It's not that there's a simplistic view that Czech players play Czech music better. Don't forget, that Dvorak's students and his generation, have passed on a tradition of learning, which has become embodied in their style of playing. This is a level of musical insight passed down, which cannot be picked out from looking at the score and playing it with one's heart hanging out.

The funny review of the Cleveland Quartet by Joe somebody dissing the Cleveland Quartet as 3 out of 5 stars is interesting: he seems to favour the Prager Streichquartett or the Amadeus Quartet. I share his opinion about the slow movement: the poignancy is lost at the tempos played by the Cleveland Quartet, but the calibre of the musical writing makes it hard to obscure completely.

Btw - if you're listening via youtube/digital - you must have a really good set-up to pick out the detail?


----------



## userfume

Yes I have a great PC and soundcard. I listen through Sennheiser headphones usually, and I either buy the music off iTunes, listen to my existing CDs through the PC, or stream through Youtube or NaxosMusicLibrary. I just prefer to do things digitally, as anything physical is usually cumbersome or space consuming. I'm just incredibly confused by the fact that despite there being a huge amount of the Cleveland Quartet's work is on iTunes, their recording of a more popular piece is not on there. I probably will get the CD if there's no alternative - it's just that I haven't bought a physical recording for years.

I do agree about the 2nd movement being a touch too fast. However it still retains its beauty and phrasing. I just dislike about many of the recordings seeming desire to be too emotional - for example, many rits in the 4th movement at the end of each phrase


----------



## Head_case

Wow. You must be one of the Generation Z (after my Generation X, then Generation Y). Your collection is on iTunes? 

And you haven't lost it yet? :lol:

My guess is, iTunes realise that the other Czech quartet ensembles are way better hotcake sellers (not to say that is a measure of quality - far from it). 

The Vlach Quartet are available on Spotify; Vaneyes graciously reminded us of the fabulous Stamitz Quartet (on Supraphon Records) who don't get enough recognition these days. 

As much as everyone lauds the brilliant Pavel Haas Quartet, their work does not displace the modern era Prazak Quartet recordings for me. Their irritating coupling disasters make them positively avoidable for me, unless you have never ever heard the Dvorak string quartet no. XII, then it would come as one of the top 5 recommendations in my books (or CD/LP shelves). There is no artistic reason to couple the No. XII after the No. XIII on the CD programming (lost on those who download just the solitary digital file of course). Neither does the XIII fit with the No. XII aesthetically, compared with the No. XIII and the No. XIV which he worked on nearly contemporaneously.

FWIW, for Generation Z'ers if I only hear it digitally, I'm not so sure if I would consider that pwned


----------



## Vaneyes

Head_case said:


> ....Vaneyes graciously reminded us of the fabulous Stamitz Quartet (on Supraphon Records) who don't get enough recognition these days....


Thank you, thank you (bowing). But, Czechmate! My single's from their Bayer series. FTI, Stamitz Qt. also have the Dvorak (complete) via 10CD Brilliant Classics box. 
:tiphat:


----------



## Head_case

> Thank you, thank you (bowing). But, Czechmate! My single's from their Bayer series. FTI, Stamitz Qt. also have the Dvorak (complete) via 10CD Brilliant Classics box.


Haha...boom! Boom!










The Bayer series....?! 

How old is that?! My Vlach Quartet LPs are the late quartets only (No.s X-XV). I settled for Jana Vlachova's complete Naxos cycle which is actually more expensive than the Stamitz Quartet collection due to the strength of the reviews, and the inclusion of the more interesting salon pieces like Terzetto.


----------



## Vaneyes

Head_case said:


> Haha...boom! Boom!
> 
> The Bayer series....?!
> 
> How old is that?!


My single was recorded 1987, published 1988. Don't know 'bout the series duration.


----------



## Head_case

That's one of the early cycles: after the Prager Streichquartett which was the first complete cycle on CD (followed by the Panocha Quartet). 

It used to be very hard to find! I still haven't ever seen a complete cycle other than the Prager Streichquartett for sale in HMV. Oops. ...what HMV...


----------



## moody

userfume said:


> After much more listening to different recordings - I conclude that for me, the best performance is in fact by the Cleveland Quartet. I disagree that they lose any significant delicacy or passion, and it is wrong to assume that just because they are not Czech players, they cannot understand the music.
> Thus, why isn't their recording on iTunes? Loads of their recordings for many other quartets are there, but not this... I have to listen to the YouTube version. I would really like to purchase this recording digitally. Can anyone find it? THnkas


I can't agree with your conclusion,I'm quite sure that Czech players bring an extra dimension into things.
Similarly, I believe that Gershwin's music is really only played by American musicians with the right "feel".


----------



## Quartetfore

moody said:


> I can't agree with your conclusion,I'm quite sure that Czech players bring an extra dimension into things.
> Similarly, I believe that Gershwin's music is really only played by American musicians with the right "feel".


If that is true only French Quartets can play Debussy and Ravel, Russian Quartets play Shostakovich and German Quartets Brahms. And Quartets from China and Japan can`t play Beethoven. As you can see I don`t agree with your post at all


----------



## Guest

I quite enjoy Bach's cantatas performed by a Japanese ensemble (Masaaki Suzuki with Bach Collegium Japan) so I also can't see that the nationality of the ensemble is key to an excellent performance.


----------



## jurianbai

The American string quartet was my first string quartet that enable me dig into the genre as a non classical listener at the time. I think it is an ensemble called Turtle Island string quartet version I heard, which is rather jazzy influence. FOr now, I think this one is canon recording for Dvorak SQ, including The American in our lifetime....lol.









a complete set by Prague String Quartet.

I enjoy a video recording of Cypress Hill string quartet on Youtube, here there are:


----------



## Head_case

Quartetfore said:


> If that is true only French Quartets can play Debussy and Ravel, Russian Quartets play Shostakovich and German Quartets Brahms. And Quartets from China and Japan can`t play Beethoven. As you can see I don`t agree with your post at all


This isn't what Moody has written. It's not that other nationalities cannot play string quartets.

Consider the Hungarian Bartok String Quartets: Sandor Végh of the Hungarian Végh Quartet, had direct instruction from the Hungarian himself. As did his pupils, Andreas Keller, of the Hungarian Keller Quartet, indirectly through Sandor. As did the Hungarian Takacs Quartet.

The situation is no different than the 'Czech Tradition', whereby insights from the Czech composer, are passed on in the oral tradition of learning: a dimension of learning which the written score interpreted by itself, cannot achieve. The composer, Bodorova who studied at the Janacek Academy picked up Janacek's spirit in this way; thus it was inevitable that that Bodorova's writings share something of Janacek in common, albeit in a more modern idiom. The string quartet ensembles...have a tradition of learning....and thus playing...which is more informed by the very home or institutes from which Dvorak's music is issued.

This is the same rationale for the famous Soviet Beethoven Quartet and the Taneyev Quartet (Soviet), premiering Shostakovich' works and Myaskovsky's works: they had a direct connection to the composer, not just borne simply out of pure national pride (although that might add some interesting garnish to the mix). The spiritual connection with the composer and his instructions, is important in shaping the final performance of the music - I never wish to underestimate this, and the danger here, is not that we are overestimating such an influence, but that we can trivialise it into thinking that this is just about 'nationalism' which it is not.

On the other hand, Czech composers like Kalabis, whose works were never really premiered by the Smetana Quartet to whom some of his string quartets were premiered (who didn't seemed to care either way for his works to the point of not bothering to premier them for decades, until they were taken over and performed by other more interested string quartets in liaison with the composer), never really made it to performance until the composer worked with later string quartets like the Prague City Quartet (Prager Streichquartett).

Same situation in the USA: Elliott Carter's works, are better performed by the Arditti Quartet or the Pacifica Quartet: ensembles who worked directly with the composer and were American too.

The Debussy & Ravel argument - actually, one of the best releases of these discs, was by the French Quatuor Ebène in recent years (even if my favourites are by the Quartetto Italiano (Italian) and Vlach Quartet (Czech). The distance in time, over which oral information can be conveyed to the string quartet ensemble ...is extant.

Thus, for me it doesn't matter who plays Beethoven's string quartets - German or otherwise. It's not like the Germans have a special repository of learning knowledge in their conservatory to impart about Beethoven's music, that other quartet ensembles do not have; nor can they summon Beethoven from the dead to ask him about phrasing and accents.

With recent composers, the situation is clearer. The British Archaeus Quartet play the best version of York Bowen's string quartet (maybe the only version in print?) because of their connection with British music and their love of British music. This is something which a foreign national would be hard pressed to do: finding the music score to start off with, is a challenge. Composers who collaborate with string quartets, achieve an expressivity of their work, which is directly informed and connected to the composer: this is ideal.


----------



## Vaneyes

Some more jumping to conclusions, I fear. 

moody can speak for himself, but I also feel as HC obviously does, that moody reserved his opinion for this instance and didn't mean it to be taken so broadly...although again as HC said (and moody may say, too), there are plenty of good arguments for "nationalism" in classical music. Pride, passion, knowledge, may play parts, in addition to talent.

But, I've said it before, I find it gratifying when an artist or artists from "left field" "kill" a work. Assuming that "kill" means good interpretation. I asked for an explanation of that on another thread ('best sounding LvB symphonic cycle', IBIW), but don't think I got one. Haven't checked recently. :tiphat:


----------



## Head_case

Excellent example of 'killing a work' - the American Brodsky Quartet interpreting the Soviet Shostakovich' string quartet cycle and making a complete dogs dinner of it, chewing off more than they can gnaw at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2004/jan/02/classicalmusicandopera.shopping3


> It is music of a kind of terrified contemplation, and perhaps it's not surprising that the Brodsky Quartet, who were all very young when these recordings were made, do not quite have the measure of it; far more experienced groups have spectacularly failed to get to grips with it too.












Interestingly, the non-Soviet Fiztwilliam Quartet produced one of the first CD traversals of the Shostakovich String Quartet cycle: this was well before its time, and the ensemble had the benefit of working directly with Dmitri.

They Americans still don't outperform the Soviet ensembles: the Taneyev or the Borodin Quartet, or the St Petersburg Quartet for this kind of literature however are very respectable.


----------



## Vaneyes

Okay, sooo, "Kill" and "Killing" can be used for bad and good. That clarifies matters.


----------



## Head_case

The Brodsky Quartet recordings of the Shostakovich were so unusual that the journalists (depending on their persuasion) really thought they made a killing!



> "Sunday, the second and final day in the Brodsky Quartet's intensive two-day survey of Shostakovich's 15 string quartets, was, without exaggeration, a day and a night of awesome musical experience."


As if recording a complete cycle of XV string quartets in 2 days was a measure of love, or diligence or artistic attention. Grrrr!

Even worse - who paid these misinformed journalists to say:



> "The Brodsky Quartet is the no.1 interpreter of Shostakovich in the world today." Corriere della Sera, December 2008


http://www.brodskyquartet.co.uk/brodskyreviews.html

Quite shockingly high praise...that could fool someone into buying a completely below-average to low-average cycle of Shostakovich's string quartets minus the Russian spirit!

Kill! Kill Kill! :lol:


----------



## moody

Quartetfore said:


> If that is true only French Quartets can play Debussy and Ravel, Russian Quartets play Shostakovich and German Quartets Brahms. And Quartets from China and Japan can`t play Beethoven. As you can see I don`t agree with your post at all


No,the thread was peculiar to Czech music,so extending it the way you have destroys any credence you might have,
I note you said nothing about my Gershwin point.


----------



## Vaneyes

Head_case said:


> The Brodsky Quartet recordings of the Shostakovich were so unusual that the journalists (depending on their persuasion) really thought they made a killing! As if recording a complete cycle of XV string quartets in 2 days was a measure of love, or diligence or artistic attention. Grrrr! Even worse - who paid these misinformed journalists to say: http://www.brodskyquartet.co.uk/brodskyreviews.html
> 
> Quite shockingly high praise...that could fool someone into buying a completely below-average to low-average cycle of Shostakovich's string quartets minus the Russian spirit! Kill! Kill Kill! :lol:


You're forgetting their c1992 Teldec backcovers: Wardrobe by Issey Miyake.


----------



## Head_case

I can't forget. 

I always wanted one when I was growing up but all I could get was the fancy dress black costume in another thread


----------



## Vaneyes

They were stolen November last. So, what now?

http://www.thestrad.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=2445


----------



## Head_case

Nuts. That's just awful. 

If the Emerson Qt turn up playing the repertoire, we'll have some consolation at least it will be performed better but not as fashionable to look at


----------



## Quartetfore

moody said:


> No,the thread was peculiar to Czech music,so extending it the way you have destroys any credence you might have,
> I note you said nothing about my Gershwin point.


Are you serious? I have a feeling that I might have been attending Quartet concerts, and buying records before you were born.Don`t be so high and mighty and go after those who might not agree with you.


----------



## Vaneyes

Then that might make you 120.


----------



## Quartetfore

Some times I feel like it.


----------



## Quartetfore

Quartetfore said:


> Are you serious? I have a feeling that I might have been attending Quartet concerts, and buying records before you were born.Don`t be so high and mighty and go after those who might not agree with you.


I might add that my oldest Daughter was a student of a world famous String Quartet, and did have many an interesting and informative talks with a her teachers.


----------



## ptr

I have about half a dozen versions of the American, on the whole I think I like the Vlach Quartet (Supraphon) the best with the Takács Quartet (Decca) as a close second. I don't mind the very polished playing of the Lindsey's (ASV), but never felt any affection for the Emerson's superior technical abilities.

/ptr


----------



## userfume

listen specifically from 24:25 . One of the reasons why I love the Cleveland Quartet's version is the glissando the third time that theme is played. They make it feel like a true climax. :tiphat:


----------



## Head_case

ptr said:


> I have about half a dozen versions of the American, on the whole I think I like the Vlach Quartet (Supraphon) the best with the Takács Quartet (Decca) as a close second. I don't mind the very polished playing of the Lindsey's (ASV), but never felt any affection for the Emerson's superior technical abilities.
> 
> /ptr


Yay for the Vlach Quartet first recommendation! 

Btw - Eddierukiddingvarese is around 122 years old (reincarnated ulterior states included in the calculation). That makes him the oldest on the forum.

The sterility of the technically perfect Emersons span beyond the Czech quartets. They are just as perfectly sterile doing the complete Shostakovich string quartet cycle or Bartok - a very consistent group with a well deserved reputation


----------



## Head_case

> One of the reasons why I love the Cleveland Quartet's version is the glissando the third time that theme is played. They make it feel like a true climax.


It's very good!

At 24.27 - 24.29 seconds: this is the strangest interpretation of those two seconds I have ever heard.

Not saying it's bad - in fact, rather attractive appogiatura!


----------



## Quartetfore

I might be the oldest person on this forum, but I will leave that honor for any one who cares to claim it. I did hear the Budapest Quartet at the end of their run, and did attend the first concert of the Quartteto Italiano in America while I was a student. I guess this dates me
Several weeks ago I heard the Emerson in an all Brahms concert. The 2nd quartet (not a favorite of mine), the Piano Quintet and the 2nd String Sextet. Quite a good concert, I think that there is a difference in hearing a recorded version and a "live" performance.


----------



## moody

Quartetfore said:


> Are you serious? I have a feeling that I might have been attending Quartet concerts, and buying records before you were born.Don`t be so high and mighty and go after those who might not agree with you.


Firstly I would advise you not to jump to any false conclusions,unless of course you are very long in the tooth indeed.
As I am 75 years old and went to my first concert at the age of eight I doubt your statement,also it was not particularly polite.
I have always been aware that there is a consensus that Czech artists have a particular affinity with their national music and I have many recordings of Czech music in general that seem to mostly prove this affinity. At one point Userfume made the comment that because the Cleveland Quartet are not Czech it is assumed that they don't understand the music---who on earth said that was the case ?
As for the nonsense about French groups only playing French music,etc. Head..case answered that and it has already been pointed out the discussion is about Czech music...good grief !
So do try to temper your comments and I notice that I still got no comment re: the Gershwin question.


----------



## moody

QUARTETFORE seems to have disappeared !!??


----------



## Quartetfore

moody said:


> QUARTETFORE seems to have disappeared !!??


Off on a vacation, returned last night at 11:45 PM. Delayed at the Airport for several hours. On a very fine cruse to the sunny Islands of Puerto Rico, Saint Marten and Grand Turk. I did have a chance to vist the home of Pablo Casals in San Juan, though it was very brief.
By the way, if I put any one`s nose out of joint sorry about that. I have no opinion about Gershwin.
Thanks for thinking about me.
QF.


----------



## Head_case

What a great vacation! Apart from the airport delay of course - this is almost statutory at this time of the year. 

Latin American speaking islands/countries are beyond my cultural reference point so I'd love to discover these places one day. 

Did you discover any interesting music over there?


----------



## Quartetfore

The only Spanish speaking Island that we visited was Puerto Rico. The others are populated by by decendents of African slaves that were brought over to work in the sugar cane fields. Very bad poverty on these Islands. We never had a chance to hear any sort of music since the time we spent on any of the Islands was not more than a few hours.


----------



## Head_case

Errr....that sounds like a Unicef trip rather than holiday :/

The warm weather sounds great though. Something I really miss over here at this time of the year.

Winter :lol:


----------



## Quartetfore

Not with the price the Steam Ship company charges. By the way, I did download the French take on the Miaskovsky #13. I don`t know enough about the "style", but for what`s it worth this is a very well sounding and very well recorded disk.
QF.


----------



## Head_case

Amazing - you had wireless internet on the cruise?  

Ahhh...the Quatuor Renoir recording of the Myaskovsky No. I & XIII. 

Yes - it is indeed a fine audio recording - much superior to the 1980's Taneyev Quartet recording. 

The performance of the young quartet isn't to my taste at all. They have a rather strange interpretation of Myaskovsky. Now when the Taneyev Quartet interpreted Debussy; Ravel; Honegger - their works were hardly eccentric, and sat with the best of the vinyl LP releases. Even their famous Schubert string quartet releases are epic, however modern technology wins over and these extant recordings are left for the disciplined and the dedicated to unearth. 

I guess I must like the Quatuor Renoir enough not to get rid of the quartet. If I saw them in concert, I'd probably enjoy their interpretation, concerts being the kind of venue where string quartets can be more daring or adventurous in their interpretations. I don't feel this way about the Kopelman Quartet whose reading adds absolutely nothing to the Myaskovsky string quartet no. XIII. I'm still treasuring the Beethoven Quartet's recording of the no. XIII on vinyl LP though. 



It would be superb to see more of this literature get reinterpreted again.


----------



## Quartetfore

yes, we did have wireless but I had downloaded the recording a while back. I hope that the Pacifica Quartet records some of the quartets as they are doing for the Shostakovich works


----------



## TinyTim

I recently listened, much to my intense delight, to the new recording (2010) of Dvorak's _American String Quartet_ by the Pavel Haas String Quartet. Lots of energetic passion and a superb interpretation.


----------



## Quartetfore

TinyTim said:


> I recently listened, much to my intense delight, to the new recording (2010) of Dvorak's _American String Quartet_ by the Pavel Haas String Quartet. Lots of energetic passion and a superb interpretation.


My new favorite, and a great sound recording.


----------



## userfume

Quartetfore said:


> My new favorite, and a great sound recording.


How so? The sound struck me as being incredibly harsh - especially the viola


----------



## Quartetfore

userfume said:


> How so? The sound struck me as being incredibly harsh - especially the viola


Did it? Most review`s thought that the sound was fine, and it did win the GPhone. Chamber record of the year. It is of course a personal judgement.


----------



## userfume

Quartetfore said:


> Did it? Most review`s thought that the sound was fine, and it did win the GPhone. Chamber record of the year. It is of course a personal judgement.


Yes. It just didn't seem very clean or refined - but that's just personal opinion. However I cannot see what makes it special to winning awards like best chamber recording of the year


----------



## Quartetfore

Once again it is matter of judgement by those who are paid to express an opinion. As a matter of fact, it was the Dvorak op.105 on the same disc that got the rave reviews. have you heard that work? If not, you are sure to enjoy it--it is a very great quartet.


----------



## Vaneyes

Not knowing Pavel Haas SQ or their recordings, I took this opportunity to sample their Dvorak rec. at a few sites, including Supraphon. I, too, found the recording "harsh" sounding. Particularly in louder passages. Neither was I attracted enough by group tone or playing, to warrant further investigation. Re sound recording, Supraphon has always been a funny duck in that department. :tiphat:


----------



## Quartetfore

It comes down to it`s all in the ear.


----------



## Head_case

Are you guys who think the Pavel Haas Quartet recording of the Dvorak string quartet No. XII, is harsh, listening to MP3 downloads, or the CD?

The one thing I've discovered is that MP3 quality music is *always* harsh compared to my vinyl LP equivalents. It is also harsher than CD physical media. 

There are those who say FLAC is better: I certainly find ATRAC3 better than MP3 although there, the distinction starts to blur and overall, what is available for downloads is 'harsh'. 

The Supraphon recording of the Pavel Haas Quartet on CD certainly isn't harsh to my ears, but that really depends on your sound system. If you're listening via your computer, you'll pick this up more. 

Better stick with the original Vlach Quartet on warm vinyl LP recording. That's on superb warm mono


----------



## Vaneyes

Quartetfore says it's ears (and mentions rave reviews). HC says it's less than ideal sound samples. Why would anyone want to argue against that.


----------



## Quartetfore

I listen on cd`s burned from downloads, using ultimate ears 600 earphones. In the case of the Dvorak ,I burned a cd from the the original cd. Was there a change in the sound from the original, that I can`t tell. In any case, this is an interesting conversation and proves to me how we all hear differently.


----------



## Head_case

I don't really know either....I was just guessing that maybe those who found the superb Pavel Haas rather harsh, that it isn't a universal experience. They are superb performers in concert (I might go back and see them if I can be bothered to bring a gas mask to the chamber venue hmmm). 

In any case, they aren't my favourite interpreters, but they are better than most else I've heard out there!

It's true though - my girlfriend thinks my music is abominable but never ventures to tell me, and instead busys herself. Although there is indeed, an objectively rooting component of music, such that it is not all subjective. For example, getting the notes right :lol:


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

Vaneyes said:


> Stamitz Qt.
> 
> View attachment 12422


I wouldn't argue with this one.


----------



## Pugg

For me : The Emerson String Quartet.


----------



## Mal

I have three versions of this quartet, I also find the Pavel Haas a bit harsh for frequent listening, though I enjoyed it very much first time round for the energy and excitement, so for the moment I'm keeping it. The Stamitz quartet version I find warm, but slightly tame. My preferred version is by the Lindsay quartet, which is both warm and exciting. Can't wait for another run through all three again! It's a wonderful piece.

P.S. Positions are reversed for SQ 13, with the Lindsays sounding rather harsh, Pavel Hass not quite warm enough, and the Stamitz winning with a warm performance.


----------



## Mal

Head_case said:


> It's true though - my girlfriend thinks my music is abominable but never ventures to tell me, and instead busys herself. Although there is indeed, an objectively rooting component of music, such that it is not all subjective. For example, getting the notes right :lol:


What about the baroque horn? I've heard Hipsters argue that "not getting the notes right" adds a necessary "cloven hoofed" aspect to the music. And then there's the avant garde...


----------



## Quartetfore

Pugg said:


> For me : The Emerson String Quartet.


I am back after several years, and I hope to post with old friends and meet new ones.a while back I cast a vote for the Pavel Haas performance, but after hearing is a number of time I am going with my old favorite which is the Emerson version


----------



## TurnaboutVox

I am a fan of the Quartetto Italiano's 1968 recording of Dvořák's Op. 96 quartet myself. On CD I've settled for the impassioned but slightly rough sounding Pavel Haas Quartet account on Supraphon.

I confess I have never heard the Stamic / Stamitz or Emerson quartets in this repertoire.


----------



## Quartetfore

If you like Dvorak`s quartets, you might look into the quartets of Zdenek Fibich (1850-1900) and Josef Foerster (1859-1951). While they lack the genius of Dvorak`s later work,they are very enjoyable in the Czech style
QF


----------



## sbmonty

Coincidentally, I listened to the BBC Building A Library broadcast last night, choosing their preferred performance. The choice was the Keller Quartet. I did like the Jerusalem Quartet's interpretations quite a bit though.


----------



## hpowders

The old great Guarneri Quartet recording on RCA.


----------



## Pugg

Quartetfore said:


> I am back after several years, and I hope to post with old friends and meet new ones.a while back I cast a vote for the Pavel Haas performance, but after hearing is a number of time I am going with my old favorite which is the Emerson version


But then again they do play outstanding also. ( the Pavel Haas I mean)


----------

