# Best conductors/orchestras for Beethoven's symphonies



## Oliver

I have recordings of the LSO and Bernstein. What are your favourites?


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## brianwalker

3. Bernstein NYPO SONY, Solti DECCA Legendary VPO, 
5. Kleiber VPO
6. Walter/Sony 
9. Furtwangler 1954


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## Olias

Mackerras - Royal Liverpool Philharmonic


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## DavidMahler

1. Gardiner
2. Harnoncourt
3. Mackerras
4. Kleiber
5. Kleiber
6. Walter
7. Kleiber
8. Szell
9. Furtwangler


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## mikeber

Hi, 
I am a new member and found this forum after shopping for a Beethoven symphonies cycle. As expected, the opinions are divided and there is no evident winner. Each music lover has his/her own favorite.
However for those among us who favor vinyl, I wanted to mention a new release of Furtwangler - "Edition Wilhelm Furtwaengler" a 14 LP set: 
http://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Furtw...=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1329610581&sr=1-5


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## rgolubev

I can't praise Karl Bohm's recordings high enough. His 2,3rd,7th on Audite 2CD released in 2007 (a superb transfer from Munich recordings of 1973, 1978) still can be found. The 3rd is so ecstatic and full of energy! I couldn't believe the old man could pull it off so nicely with good balance of tempi (nothing too fast or too slow imo) and with so much energy. I've heard a lot of recordings and the only one comparable in the force of the effect on me was 3rd Furtwangler's 3rd (another very distinctive conductor I can heartily recommend). I yet to listen to Bohm's other symphonies' recordings I just got. I'll add my impressions later.


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## jani

Leonard Bernstein
Osmo Vänskä


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## SixFootScowl

Gunter Wand's Beethoven Symphony cycle is quite nice. My favorite of the few I have heard. But I do substitute Fricsay for the Ninth.


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## hpowders

Yes. I second the Gunter Wand. His 4th is the best I've ever heard and once you get used to the slower than average opening movement tempo, his 6th is impressive too!


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## bigshot

Best complete set... Kletzki / Czech Phil (Blomstedt / Dresden is consistently good too)

Other great Beethoven conductors... Bohm, Bernstein, Walter, Karajan (EMI and 60s DGG)


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## KenOC

Here's a page I put together -- a wee bit out of date but close.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R1L1EGKNY1ZC8X/ref=cm_srch_res_rpsy_alt_4


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## Itullian

Klemperer, Bohm, Bernstein, Walter, Furtwangler for me.


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## hpowders

Yes....when it came to Beethoven...._Gunter_ wielded a magic _Wand._


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## Marschallin Blair

For different _symphonies_, and some _conductors_ with more frequency than others--- but generally for me its:

Karajan, Furtwangler, Toscanini, Gardiner, Reiner, and Kleiber. . . and_ then_ all the rest.


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## Triplets

mikeber said:


> Hi,
> I am a new member and found this forum after shopping for a Beethoven symphonies cycle. As expected, the opinions are divided and there is no evident winner. Each music lover has his/her own favorite.
> However for those among us who favor vinyl, I wanted to mention a new release of Furtwangler - "Edition Wilhelm Furtwaengler" a 14 LP set:
> http://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Furtw...=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1329610581&sr=1-5


Also available on CD and downloads.


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## DavidA

For me the best all round cycles are Karajan 1963 and 1977

The one to avoid (I didn't unfortunately) is Chailly, brilliantly recorded and much praised by critics. He rushes the music off its feet, despite some brilliant playing.


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## Triplets

It is surprisingly difficult to find a complete set where all 9 shine. There are usually 1 or 2 disappointments per cycle.


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## DavidA

Triplets said:


> It is surprisingly difficult to find a complete set where all 9 shine. There are usually 1 or 2 disappointments per cycle.


Always the same. I mean the 6th in Karajan's 1963 is a bit hard driven but very good in 1977
No 1 in 1977 is not a great success.
And of course, there are many different ways of doing them.


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## david johnson

boxes - Klemperer and Karajan '63


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## DavidA

david johnson said:


> boxes - Klemperer and Karajan '63


Klemperer was the 'way' to do LvB in the eyes of the critics when I started collecting records over 50 years ago. Most people today would find him too slow - amazing how fashions change - but he usually no less than interesting.


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## Pip

1/2 Karajan
3 Furtwängler
4 Furtwängler - Karajan - Kleiber
5 Kleiber - Furtwängler - Karajan
6 Furtwängler - Böhm - Celibidache
7 Karajan - Kleiber - Furtwängler
9 Furtwängler Lucerne 1954 - Karajan Berlin 1977

I don't much care for the 8th so have not listed it.


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## DavidA

1/2 Karajan 1963
3. Karajan 1977 or Klemperer (a superb funeral march but the tempo of the first movement slow)
4. Karajan 1963
5. C Kleiber
6. Karajan 1977 or Klemperer Bohm is highly rated but don't know it
7. C Kleiber or Klemperer 1955
8. Karajan 1963
9. Karajan 1977 or Klemperer (a long slow build up to joy!)


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## Vaneyes

Living - Harnoncourt, P. Jarvi, Barenboim.
Dead - HvK, Solti, Walter.


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## DavidA

I had forgotten I had the Harnoncourt cycle. Good but not as good as HvK I think.


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## hpowders

I have so many complete Beethoven symphony cycles, it is absolutely shameful.

I've been spending my time shifting CD sets from the "living conductor" pile to the "dead conductor" pile.

Who will carry on this task once I'm gone, I wonder?


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## Declined

Anima Eterna with Jose van Immerseel is the best set of Beethoven recordings I've heard.


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## hpowders

Declined said:


> Anima Eterna with Jose van Immerseel is the best set of Beethoven recordings I've heard.


If you like HIP.


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## Ingélou

hpowders said:


> If you like HIP.


Which people of taste & discernment usually do...


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## Marc

Beethoven's symphonies were hot, are hot and will remain hot.
So, I guess, each and every conductor & orchestra who/that performs them, will give their very best.
This is, of course, a great thing, but it can be bad for the contents of one's wallet.

To me, the big plus of a HIP (-influenced) orchestra is the diminshed size of especially the string section, which creates a far better balance the various instrument groups.

That's why I like many of the performances on period instruments, like Brüggen, Hogwood or Van Immerseel. And nowadays, many recordings on modern instruments have a diminished string section, too.

This doesn't mean that I don't like 'old style' recordings, btw. In fact, there are so many good and enjoyable recordings, it's impossible to mention just a few. Cluytens, Klemperer, Kletzki, Leibowitz, Fricsay, Karajan, Konwitschny, Bernstein, Jochum, Kegel, Kleiber and all their various orchestras ... man, the list is endless. Just take a month off, listen and pick your favourite(s). It'll be great fun!


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## DavidA

Declined said:


> Anima Eterna with Jose van Immerseel is the best set of Beethoven recordings I've heard.


Not from what I've heard!


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## Guest

Declined said:


> Anima Eterna with Jose van Immerseel is the best set of Beethoven recordings I've heard.





hpowders said:


> If you like HIP.


Actually . . . I prefer Gardiner for HIP Beethoven symphonies, but Immerseel is fun from time to time, if you are in a rush and want to hear them quickly!

I kid, I kid. But I do prefer Gardiner.

Beethoven's symphonies, though, are not ones that I necessarily prefer HIP.

For best overall, including sound and recording quality, I really like Vansk/Minnesota.

But if I had to choose only one, then that would be Klemperer. I don't have all of them by him, but I have the big ones, and love them. Yes - they can be slower than what I normally like, but Klemperer never fails to impress.


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## Duilio Tani

In my opinion, even if I'm not the same opinion of other comments, I never could hear a second movement of the Eroica (3rd Symph.) as directed by Furtwangler. In my opinion real music expression cannot be handled as a show. I have more reasons to choose FIRST conductor Furtwangler. But at this point, where I just logged in into this site, it is for me difficult to explain all my point of view (Hm of hearing).


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## hpowders

Triplets said:


> It is surprisingly difficult to find a complete set where all 9 shine. There are usually 1 or 2 disappointments per cycle.


Yes and it is always wise to shop individually if great performances mean more than saving a few bucks for a complete set.

I have Günter Wand's Beethoven Symphony set and I have problems with the first movement of the Pastoral being a bit too leisurely. Also the vocal soloists in the finale of the Ninth Symphony are far from world class.

For excellent performances of the other symphonies, the Wand set is very fine.

Fortunately I have Walter and Bernstein for the Pastoral and many Karajan performances of the Ninth to keep me happy.


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## hpowders

Duilio Tani said:


> In my opinion, even if I'm not the same opinion of other comments, I never could hear a second movement of the Eroica (3rd Symph.) as directed by Furtwangler. In my opinion real music expression cannot be handled as a show. I have more reasons to choose FIRST conductor Furtwangler. But at this point, where I just logged in into this site, it is for me difficult to explain all my point of view (Hm of hearing).


For me, Furtwängler was a better Brahms conductor than he was a Beethoven conductor.

His prolific changing of tempos works much better with Brahms than Beethoven.

Still, Furtwängler is an acquired taste.


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## Heck148

Toscanini, Reiner, Szell, Walter -

NBCSO, Chicago, Cleveland, NYPO, and Columbia Sym....

You can put together a really top level Beethoven symphony collection with these conductors and their respective orchestras...


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## Heck148

hpowders said:


> Still, Furtwängler is an acquired taste.


For me, Furtwangler was an "unacquired" taste. When I first started to seriously listen to concert music - early high school, I thought Furtwangler was great - so "profound", so "dramatic" - quite fascinating...
but as I listened and studied more, I realized that other approaches made much more sense to me - the Toscanini, Reiner, Walter, Szell approach...much of this is probably due to the teachers I had, and the conservatory I attended [Eastman]. This style delivered tremendous power of expression, without the distortions, and effects so common to the Furtwangler style...also - the ensemble, orchestra performance was much tighter, more accurate.
so, I left the Furtwangler approach to others....he was a great conductor, for sure, and powerful musical personality, but I did/do not go for his approach.


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## david johnson

I have 3 complete sets: Klemperer/philharmonia - Karajan/bpo/60s - Schmidt-Isserstedt/vpo, each is very enjoyable. (forgot to mention the last in my previous post)


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## Tallisman

Not a big fan of the lean, fleet-footed chamber orchestra approach. I like my Beethoven weighty. Szell will the Cleveland does it for me.


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## andrzejmakal

Sir Roger Norrington

Cheers


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## Pugg

andrzejmakal said:


> Sir Roger Norrington
> 
> Cheers


Not everyone's taste though. :cheers:


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## hpowders

The best orchestra I have ever heard play the Beethoven Symphonies is the Gewandhaus under Riccardo Chailly.

The interpretations are quite decent except for a certain coldness, probably due to the HIP influence on the conductor.


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## SixFootScowl

Tallisman said:


> Not a big fan of the lean, fleet-footed chamber orchestra approach. I like my Beethoven weighty. Szell will the Cleveland does it for me.


Szell's 9th is the best I've heard, second only to Fricsay!


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## Tallisman

Florestan said:


> Szell's 9th is the best I've heard, second only to Fricsay!


Isn't it just utterly monumental? What that guy did with that up-till-then unremarkable regional orchestra is one of the great conductorial (?) achievements of the century.


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## Itullian

Furtwangler, Klemperer, Walter, Bohm
Vienna Phl., Dresden , Berlin


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## unbiased

DavidMahler said:


> 1. Gardiner
> 2. Harnoncourt
> 3. Mackerras
> 4. Kleiber
> 5. Kleiber
> 6. Walter
> 7. Kleiber
> 8. Szell
> 9. Furtwangler


Agree on the most of them, but in my opinion :

no. 1. should go to Bernstein
no. 3. should go to Fricsay
no. 5. should go to Klemperer


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## Enthusiast

Vaneyes said:


> Living - Harnoncourt, P. Jarvi, Barenboim.
> Dead - HvK, Solti, Walter.


I'm afraid I have some bad news. Harnoncourt is no longer with us. He died two years ago.


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## hpowders

Enthusiast said:


> I'm afraid I have some bad news. Harnoncourt is no longer with us. He died two years ago.


I have even more bad news. You are posting to empty air. Vaneyes hasn't been posting among us for quite a while now-since August 10th, 2017.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Enthusiast said:


> I'm afraid I have some bad news. Harnoncourt is no longer with us. He died two years ago.


But was alive when Vaneyes posted that.


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## Enthusiast

There are so many! Certainly, it is impossible to ignore Furtwangler (he recorded many accounts of most of the symphonies). And I would love to hear a Toscanini-in-his-prime set in acceptable sound. Then I love the following:

Klemperer (the live set is better than the studio one in general);
Karajan (the 1960s set);
Harnoncourt; 
Vanska;
Solti;
Bernstein (no matter that, where you can hear others drawing on "the great tradition", I hear Lennie drawing on a slightly "Hollywood" version of that tradition!);
Monteux;
Konwitschny;
Bohm;
Szell;
Cluytens.

I am not sure I could choose between them - all seem excellent (maybe a good shortlist would be Harnoncourt, Karajan and Klemperer but that would miss so much) - and there may be others that I am not remembering at the moment. There are also sets that I would like to hear but haven't yet (Ansermet; Kletzki ...). And there are, of course, many recordings of individual works that are wonderful (Kleiber's with the VPO ...). Similarly, few sets are brilliant all the way through but I do like the way that great conductors can be heard to have developed an approach, a language (sound, phrasing, dynamics etc) that is distinctive and meaningful - this is strongly the case with Klemperer (who I do not greatly like in some symphonies) but applies to most of the above. Some sets are remarkably consistent (I find that Harnoncourt is, for example).

I have no HIP set in the above. I do not greatly like Gardiner's set - his concern seems to be to make a point rather than to realise the music - but I do greatly like the live recordings of some of the symphonies that he made later (his approach had matured and become musical). I could have added van Immerseel's set to the above but, although I sometimes like it, I often experience it as a little superficial and dull. I do not know the Norrington sets as he is a conductor I disliked and ignored until recently (his Mozart turned me round). I do greatly like the HIP recordings that Harnoncourt did of 4 and 5 towards the end of his life. 

A special case - and not quite a full set - are the recordings of Celibidache with the Munich PO. Sometimes I like them but sometimes I find them much too smooth. While I like him from this period in his work in nearly everything, it seems that overt tension and drama are more crucial to me in Beethoven.


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## Enthusiast

Johnnie Burgess said:


> But was alive when Vaneyes posted that.


Ah. OK. I wondered where this thread came from. I should have checked.


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## hpowders

Johnnie Burgess said:


> But was alive when Vaneyes posted that.


But interaction will be difficult!!


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## Jatuphol Nuanjan

What about Skrowaczecski.


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## Jatuphol Nuanjan

What about Skrowaczewski?


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## Jatuphol Nuanjan

1- Asahina/Skrowaczewski
2- Asahina
3- Klemperer/Celibidache
4- Järvi/Walter/C. Kleiber
5- Klemperer/C. Kleiber
6- 
7- C. Kleiber
8- Walter
9- Böhm/Celibidache/Klemperer 60'


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## Zulk

I love karajan's 1963 beethoven symphonies a lot. They are energetic and the tempo is to my liking.
The best thing about them is that they are remastered and available on cd's and sacd's.

I have listened to bohm, szell, berenbaum, sir roger norrington, bernstein...

I think Karajan is the best.
Of course, i am just a beginner. I discovered the magic of classical music just this year.


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## Merl

There are lots of recommendations and a million and one different opinions, depending who you talk to. Remember that opinions are like ar*eholes...everyone's got one! Here are a few links to some opinions from me and many others on here:

If You Could Only Have One Beethoven Symphony Cycle

Best Beethoven complete symphonies set?

Beethoven symphony cycle with the best sound and performance

Also if you want some reviews then Granate has done some of the main sets (one linked below - you can find the rest from a quick search) and Ive mopped up a lot of the lesser known ones in several other reviews- one link below - the rest are linked in my Part 8)

Granate's Beethoven Symphony Challenge - Table 2 (USA)

Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt8

Ps. I reviewed Skrowaczewski's cycle in my round-ups. Its superb. If you like it you should check out Gielen's last set. That was similarly impressive.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Pre-stereo:

1 - Furtwangler live '52, Walter '47 (Arbiter), Weingartner
2 - Furtwangler, Beecham '37, Weingartner
3 - Furtwangler '44, Furtwangler 12/8/52, Klemperer '57 (Testament), Toscanini '39, E. Kleiber '53, Van Kempen
4 - Furtwangler '43, Klemperer '57 (Testament), Beecham (Biddulph)
5 - Furtwangler 5/25/47, Furtwangler '43, Furtwangler 5/23/54, Jochum '51, Toscanini '33, Klemperer '57 (Testament), E. Kleiber
6 - Furtwangler 5/23/54, Furtwangler 5/25/47, De Sabata, Weingartner
7 - Furtwangler '53, Furtwangler '43, Toscanini '36, Klemperer '57 (Testament), Weingartner, Van Kempen
8 - Furtwangler '53, Pfitzner, Van Kempen, Weingartner
9 - Furtwangler '42, Furtwangler '54 (Audite), Furtwangler Bayreuth '51 (Orfeo), Klemperer '61 (Testament), Klemperer '57 (Testament), Walter (Orfeo), Toscanini '38, Abendroth '50

Stereo:

1 - Jochum (DG), Barbirolli, Bernstein (DG), Bernstein (Sony)
2 - Beecham (EMI), Jochum (DG), Cluytens, Bohm
3 - Klemperer '59 (EMI), Barbirolli, Karajan '84, Kempe '61, Bohm '61 (DG Originals)
4 - Karajan '62, Walter, Klemperer, C. Kleiber
5 - Bernstein (1976 Amnesty concert on DG), C. Kleiber, Giulini DG, Karajan '62
6 - Walter, Klemperer, Bohm, Cluytens
7 - C. Kleiber (Orfeo), Bohm, Colin Davis (EMI), Bernstein (DG)
8 - Karajan '62, Bohm, Barbirolli, Walter
9 - Bernstein '79 (DG), Karajan '76 (DG), Kubelik (Orfeo), Bohm '72 (DG), Fricsay


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## damian101

Whenever I thought that a Beethoven performance was significantly too slow for my taste, it was conducted by Bernstein. Many Beethoven performances I particularly enjoyed were conducted by relatively little known conductors.


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## SearsPoncho

Many good suggestions here. I would like to add two more names that aren't frequently discussed:

Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt. His Eroica with the VPO is my favorite Eroica.
Eugene Ormandy - His Ninth with the Philadelphia Orchestra is my favorite Ninth.


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## grebochess61

Oliver said:


> I have recordings of the LSO and Bernstein. What are your favourites?


I have complete sets of Furtwangler, Karajan, Barenboim, Thielemann and Klemperer plus many other recordings of individual symphonies. I am surprised by my answer but I have to say Klemperer with the Philharmonia is the most satisfying and consistently brilliant set. Listening to Symphony No 2 as I write this, absolutely wonderful music making of the top class. So full of life and beauty.


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