# SS 30.11.13 - Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique"



## realdealblues

I'm posting this one a little early. I know lots of folks will be doing family things or traveling this weekend (at least in the USA) so I thought I would post this early so maybe a few can get in a listen between Now and Sunday. You don't need to specifically listen on Saturday 

Remember these threads are just about listening. Getting someone who hasn't heard these works before to give a listen, or rediscover an old favorite or try out a new recording.

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

*Hector Berlioz (1803 - 1869)*

Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14 

1. Rêveries - Passions (Daydreams - Passions)
2. Un bal (A Ball)
3. Scène aux champs (Scene in the Country)
4. Marche au supplice (March to the Scaffold)
5. Songe d'une nuit de sabbat (Dream of a Witches' Sabbath)
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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues

Over this Thanksgiving weekend I'm going to listen to one of my favorites that I haven't heard in a while.

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Leonard Bernstein & The New York Philharmonic.
Lenny recorded this work 3 times and I'm going for my personal favorite from 1968.


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## AClockworkOrange

Interesting choice of piece and performance Realdealblues.

This is a piece which has grown on me over time. The more I listen, the more I absorb and the more I love it.

I'll be going with this Sir Thomas Beecham's Recording:
View attachment 29274


I don't have the set to hand to specify the Orchestra but this is the recording where everything came together.


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## Vaneyes

Sir Colin Davis commercially-recorded *Berlioz *Symphonie Fantastique four times. Twice with LSO, once with ACO, and once with VPO.

I shall be playing my favorite of these collaborations, and favorite recording for this work. It was recorded in 1990. :tiphat:

View attachment 29283


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## Guest

For this one, my favorite is the Charles Munch/Boston recording. However, there are others that I own that I also enjoy.

For HIP performance, I really like Gardiner's recording on Phillips. I also have Immerseel/Anima Eterna on ZigZag, but for this work, I don't enjoy this group as much - the performance seems a bit too dry and unemotional, given how emotional a symphony this is. 

My first recording of this was the Davis/Concertgebouw, and I don't listen to it as much anymore, but it was the one that turned me on to this work.

Finally, another that I have heard and love, but do not own, is the Tilson Thomas/SFSO recording on RCA.

For me, though, I am going to load the Munch and Gardiner recordings up on my iPod and play it in the car as we drive to the inlaws for Thanksgiving (along with my mix of Christmas music from the Tallis Scholars and the Sixteen).


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## Mahlerian

I'm going to go for Gardiner and the Orchestra Revolutionaire et Romantique. The ophecleides work much better than tubas, in my opinion!


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## GioCar

I'm very attached to this CD









One of my first CD purchases... could be 30 years ago or so...


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## techniquest

This is one of the earliest (in terms of when it was written) symphonies in my collection with only Beethoven's symphonies and Schubert's 'Unfinished' being preceding it.
My favourite recording is the 1963 Bernstein / NYPO which sounds really superb in the 1999 CD remaster, but it wouldn't be me to review such a familiar recording. Instead, as usual, I go dfoe something off the beaten track. This time I have opted for Anton Nanut / Ljubljana RSO on CMD with no notes and picked up for 20p in a charity shop. Second, I shall listen to Yoav Talmi / San Diego SO on Naxos.


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## techniquest

Anton Nanut / Ljubljana RSO (Classical Masterworks in Digital ). I know nothing about this recording other than it is a digital recording. I assume that it once belonged to the Stradivari or Zyx label and has been reissued on an even cheaper label! Who knows?
The main problem with this disc isn't the performance or the orchestra, but the recording which is very flat and trebly, particularly noticeable in the 1st movement. The long third movement sounds much better were it not for the non-orchestral noises which I assume are Nanut himself getting carried away with the music, particularly in the first few minutes. The 'March to the Scaffold' opens with very deep bass drum, but somehow has no rasping pedal-note trombone in the main theme, nor is there a repeat of the opening section, but the percussion rolls at the end is very satisfying. So to the final movement: I like to hear the downward curved note on the flute near the opening, but that doesn't really happen in this recording; and the E-flat clarinet rendition of the idee fixe is far too polite (and taken rather slowly too). I also like BIG bells in my dies irae section. Here these seem to be provided by a tubular bells / piano / tam-tam combo; very unusual but in their way rather effective and definitly something I've not heard in any other recording. The development section after the dies irae is rather pondering and the remainder of the movement is taken slower than I am used to, but it doesn't crawl, and the ending is satisfying.
The symphony is coupled with the Rakoczy March. 
By no means is this a particularly impressive recording, but for 20p it's worth every penny and then some. For me, it's a keeper.


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## techniquest

Yoav Talmi / San Diego Symphony Orchestra (Naxos). As far as I can make out, Naxos has recorded this symphony 4 times: the first being with the CSR Symphony Orchestra (Bratislava) under Pinchas Steinberg in 1987, then this recording in 1995, and the latest being with the Orchestra National de Lyon and Leonard Slatikin (2011). The 4th recording is of the Liszt piano transcription of the symphony.
The first thing noticed when listeing to this recording staright after the Nanut is the vast improvement in recording quality! The San Diego SO may not be among the very top of recording orchestras in the world, but the first movement to this symphony is impressive with good balance and dynamics and you can hear all the little things going on behind the main themes. The second movement opens with lovely harps that are well forward over the tremolo strings (is this the first symphony that used harps?).
At the start of the 3rd movement, the second shepherd (the oboe) really does sound like it's a long way away and I assume that in this recording it's off-stage.
The opening of the 'March to the Scaffold' has muted brass that is so muted it can barely be heard in the first bars and then bares more resemblance to a kazoo than anything else. The low trombone (or tuba) in the main theme is absent (or so it seems to me) and the repeat isn't observed. For me, in this recording, this is the least satisfying movement.
The 'Witches Sabbath' opens suitably scarily with shimmering strings and woodwind glissandi. The E-flat clarinet's idee fixe is suitably rude and comes in after a whopper of a bass drum. Offstage bells (tubular), herald a rather weak sounding Dies Irae and in fact the rest of this movement feels as though it's just going through the motions. After the positive, careful opening two movements and a very gentle 3rd, the last two just lose the energy.
With no coupling, this disc runs to just under 50 minutes which is rather mean!


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## Il_Penseroso

Chicago Symphony Orchestra and sir Georg Solti, 1972 Decca-released on vynil, not the 1992 live recording at Salzburg's Festival Hall...


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## techniquest

Since I had a bit more time to spare, I listened to the last two movements of the latest Naxos recording (Orchestre National de Lyon with Leonard Slatkin). The 'March to the Scaffold' is taken much slower than two recordings described above; the repeat is taken and there is a nice rasping low brass pedal note. There is a marked crescendo in the final percussion roll.
The opening of the final movement is very atmospheric in this recording with slight tempo changes, but the Dies Irae, although it has proper bells, has a timing error at one point which is a little disconcerting. The remainder of the movement has a steady tempo throughout, an impressive bass drum in those important crescendi and overall sounds more powerful than the Talmi / San Diego recording.
The symphony is coupled with Le Corsair Overture and, interesting, an alternative version of the 2nd movement with Cornet obligato. Very nice.


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## leepee

The Colin Davis recording on Philips with the Concertgebouw of Amsterdam is an excellent performance but I will listen to the best recording which happens to be Charles Dutoit with the Orchestra symphonique de Montréal (1900 on DECCA). The performance is excellent and the SOUND is SPECTACULAR.


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## maestro267

I think I'll go for Rudolf Kempe conducting the Berlin Phil. Looking forward to giving this groundbreaking work a spin tomorrow.


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## ahammel

Happy Thanksgiving, Yankees.

It's been a long time since I listened to this one. I'd forgotten about the Ball entirely, it's quite an effective movement.

The Black Mass has to be some of the least subtle orchestral music ever written, but it's great fun none the less. The last few measures seem a bit out of place. After all that we're finishing on major key John Phillip Sousa? Is there something in the programme to explain that?

Reading about Berlioz's biography makes me want to grab him by the shoulders and shake some sense into him. "You're not in love with her, you idiot! You've never met her! You saw her in a play! She was acting! She's not really Ophelia!"


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## maestro267

Black Mass? Do you mean the Marche au supplice?

If so, I think of the major chords as being the bloodthirsty crowd celebrating the execution of the protagonist.


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## DaDirkNL

Claudio Abbado and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for me. Stunning symphony.


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## ahammel

maestro267 said:


> Black Mass? Do you mean the Marche au supplice?
> 
> If so, I think of the major chords as being the bloodthirsty crowd celebrating the execution of the protagonist.


I meant the Witches' Sabbath. I suppose that's distinct from a Black Mass in some way, but I'm not really up to date on the subject of mostly fictional satanism.


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## senza sordino

Symphonie Fantastique was the first symphony I really got to know decades ago. And a few years ago, I had the chance to perform this piece with our local orchestra, we didn't have enough strings, but we did okay. It is a fantastic work, great orchestration. 

My CD version is Charles Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony. I have a lot of recordings by him and Montreal. I wonder if these were more accessible, cheaper, and marketed more heavily in Canada?


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## ptr

An old Fantastique favourite, Hallé Orchestra under Sir John Barbirolli recording from 1966 on an old CD from Royal Classics.









A very fine rendition if this Symphony!

/ptr


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## Mika

Bought LSO Berlioz Edition years ago. Now it is time listen this symphony from it. Sir Colin is conducting


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## maestro267

Some incredibly original touches of orchestration for its time. The 4 harps in the Ball (and the use of the waltz in a symphony); the cor anglais/offstage oboe duet in the Country scene; the most ominous multi-timpani roll at the end of that same movement; the extra percussion (standard instruments in the subsequent orchestra, but uncommon in Berlioz' time), and perhaps most notably, the Dies Irae, scored for tubas and bassoons, the "ugliest sound [Berlioz] knew how to make".

Also, it took me ages to work out exactly what exact music was the "idée fixe". Now I'm aware of it, it's easier to work my way through the work, and get more out of its programme, such as the clarinet solo near the end of IV (one last memory of the Beloved, before the axe falls, followed by the bloodthirsty chords I mentioned in post #16), and it's completely ugly and twisted version for E flat clarinet in the finale.

An absolutely incredible work, that is always a great listen.


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## realdealblues

I listened to my Leonard Bernstein (68) recording over the weekend as planned.

I've grown more fond of this work over the years. At first I didn't know what to think of it, but it has really grown on me. I think my favorite movement may be the 2nd (The Ball). I just love the flow, especially with Bernstein at the helm. The main reason I prefer this recording to Bernstein's earlier one is because of the 3rd movement. This one is just special. I can't put into words why, but I just feel it when I hear it.

The New York Philharmonic plays well as usual and while the sound quality is good, I would love to see a new 24bit remaster.


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## nightscape

Coincidentally, I am seeing this performed on Saturday, 12/7, by the Philadelphia Orchestra at the helm of Michael Tilson Thomas (who is acting as a replacement conductor). I've been listening to it quite a bit over the last few days. I was actually just watching the 2013 Proms performance with Jansons on YouTube.


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## Animato

I like the recording with the New York Phil. Orch. and Zubin Metha, it's superb ! I don't like the Dutoit recording. It lacks some spirit - at least after having heard Munch's or Metha's recording.


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## csacks

I would consider Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, from CBS/Sony, to me, a very passionate version. That one, and the one by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic (CBS Great Performances) are my favorites.


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## Wood

maestro267 said:


> Also, it took me ages to work out exactly what exact music was the "idée fixe".
> 
> An absolutely incredible work, that is always a great listen.


I have the same problem with this work, I can't pin down the "idée fixe".

Listening to Cluytens with Phil. O 1959.

Now where is my opium pipe?


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## tahnak

Colin Davis has got the definitive Symphonie Fantastique with Concertgebouw Amsterdam.


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## ahammel

Wood said:


> I have the same problem with this work, I can't pin down the "idée fixe".


So you can't get the _idée fixe_ into your head?

The irony.


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## DavidA

David and Karajan both give good performances. I had an old mercury LP with Paray which was tremendously exciting.
Avoid Norrington's HIP which is dull.


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## Wandering

I had Boulez's Grammy winning DG recording of Symphonie Fantastique. This recording did not stick out for me. I remember in the liner notes that Boulez was quite critical of the work's originality.










The contemporary piece by Boulez that I enjoy is _explosante fixe_. Is it a modern twist on the idee fixe or just a blunt mockery/parody? I know almost nothing of the composer's intentions with the work, outside of the complex hall of mirrors gauntlet he throws the main theme into. One of the reasons this work still resonates with me is the tension and anticipation it craftily builds up prior to the explosion. And the explosion itself is a real wild ride, especially with a subwoofer. From curiosity, I looked up the release dates of these recordings, his rendition of Symphonie Fantastique came out the following year of his composition's premiere.










Back to the Symphonie Fantastique! I need to check out the Barbirolli recommendation above^. I like Thomas Beecham's remastered on EMI, but as far as sound and style on more recent takes of this work, Gergiev's does it perfectly for me with his recording on Philips. The 4th and 5th movements are even more muscular in his hands, a perfect fit for these movements, bold and precise. I should check out his Mahler 6th.


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