# Why is Medtner so little known and underappreciated?



## clavichorder

Apologies, I'm a bit wound up right now, and am on TC for downtime. Perhaps this thread would be better advertised were I calmer, so unfortunately you'll have to put up with a degree of fanaticism. Read on.

Why not make a thread devoted to this question? I don't think its been done yet. Poor Medtner, somehow he manages to fall through the cracks. Now that I've gotten to know him, I can say that he has it all, excepting orchestration, he really does! A huge variety of moods, yet with a highly consistent style, contrapuntal skills to rival Bach's without imitating him in the least, extreme harmonic ingenuity, a form, the Skazka, all to himself. If people start branching out and getting to know his most characteristic works, the Skazki, and quit fixating on Sonata Remniscenza and Piano Concerto 1, perhaps they'll see how original and amazing through and through, he is. He is the greatest lesser known composer I know, one of the most substantial bodies of piano music written in the 20th century. His opus 9 number 2 skazka written in the early 1900s, is the jazziest thing that ever came out before jazz was even a developed art form. 

People just don't know of him and its a shame. And he doesn't have the melodic abilities of Rachmaninoff, but is more like the three B's, Bach, Brahms or Beethoven, motivic and subtle. 

I wouldn't make nearly this strong a case for some of my other favorite lesser knowns, Lyapunov, CPE Bach, Balakirev, Chabrier, Alkan, WF Bach; I love those guys but I believe Medtner is a better composer, first class. More great pianist should play him. He needs a variety of recordings done for him. So far certain skazki are only recording by a sole pianist! Thank you Hamish Milne. The only lesser known composer I would rank up there with Medtner is another Russian, Taneyev.

I've heard some negative generalizations made about Medtner. I don't know how anyone could say that his music is "technical" or "busy" as though that is its chief attribute, if they've actually paid attention to it. It is organized and clever and RICH, either in a jazzy or romantic idiom. I enjoy that he can be advertised as "the Russian Brahms" solely because it compares him to the greatness of Brahms, but his style is much more condensed and vigorous than Brahms usually as in his solo piano music, better constructed but less thematically dark and fierce, more melancholy and mystical. The moods of Medtner and Brahms are quite different. 

I would like for Medtner to be discussed and appreciated in this thread. He needs it. 

And don't worry, I'm open to criticisms of Medtner as well. Those of you that know him, do you agree that he is as great as I'm claiming him to be? Please note that I do not directly say he is as great as Bach, nor do I mean it. But I do think he is "first class." Do you think so?


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## violadude

I'm with you Clavi. To be honest, I am not terribly fond of piano miniatures in the first place so I haven't heard many of his Skazki that you are talking about, but his sonatas are excellent. He does so many imaginative things with the themes he gives us. His harmonies are generally very beautiful. Yes, his contrapuntal skills are very good (I wouldn't personally put them on the same level as Bach, but the styles are so different they are hard to compare). I would even go so far as to say that he was quite a good melodist as well in his own right at least. The 2nd theme from the op. 5 f minor sonata, that "main" theme from the g minor sonata, the first theme from the F-sharp Major sonata. In fact every sonata I can think of has at least one melody in it that strikes me as particularly good, usually it is the "second theme."

I think his unpopularity is just due to unfortunate timing. He was still composing in a Russian/German romantic style when impressionism, atonalism and neo-classiclism were becoming all the rage.


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## norman bates

clavichorder said:


> His opus 9 number 2 skazka written in the early 1900s, is the jazziest thing that ever came out before jazz was even a developed art form.


what about Gottschalk?
Anyway i'm really interested, what could be a nice selection of works to start listening to him?


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## Taneyev

His third violin sonata (by Oistrakh-Goldenweisser).


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## clavichorder

norman bates said:


> what about Gottschalk?
> Anyway i'm really interested, what could be a nice selection of works to start listening to him?


Gottschalk predicts a more classic raggy sort of Jazz, I think. This skazka almost predicts an organized bebop!


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## clavichorder

Whoever posted this video is probably tired of getting notices from talkclassical saying that his video has been embedded! Its all my fault. Norman bates and anyone else, this is the best representation of skazki I know and a video to boot, and this is part 1 of 3, check them all out!


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## clavichorder

Here's the skazka I was talking about


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## Klavierspieler

I've grown to love Medtner, too, since you introduced him to me.

I'd have to agree with you, violadude, about his unpopularity, but that Rachmaninoff was composing at exactly the same time in a similarly post-Romantic fashion and he did just fine. I don't understand why Medtner is overshadowed so much by old Rachy.


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## clavichorder

Klavierspieler said:


> I've grown to love Medtner, too, since you introduced him to me.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you, violadude, about his unpopularity, but that Rachmaninoff was composing at exactly the same time in a similarly post-Romantic fashion and he did just fine. I don't understand why Medtner is overshadowed so much by old Rachy.


This is a good point. A number of factors contributed to Rach's popularity, he was in Los Angeles for a long time whereas Medtner was in England, and he had an impact on the American popular music scene. I've even seen melodies by Rachmaninoff in jazz standard books! Mind you, Medtner's melodies/themes could be excellent in one of those books as well! But also, Rach wrote big and well advertised concertos and symphonic works, he was a brilliant orchestrator, very dazzling. Yet for some reason, back in Russia, Rach's two earliest preludes were big hits with audiences and Russian pianists. Actually, I think Medtner was performed quite a bit in Russia at the time as well.


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## Tapkaara

Just feel good that people around here seem more interested in Medtner than Ifukube!


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## Ukko

Klavierspieler said:


> I've grown to love Medtner, too, since you introduced him to me.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you, violadude, about his unpopularity, but that Rachmaninoff was composing at exactly the same time in a similarly post-Romantic fashion and he did just fine. I don't understand why Medtner is overshadowed so much by old Rachy.


Not much similarity in their music. Medtner's music is what I'll call 'evolved-from-Romantic'. Rachmaninoff's fits into late Romantic nicely. All of Medtner's larger scale works require (and repay) concentration by the listener; if you just kick back and let it flow, it'll flow right by you.


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## violadude

Tapkaara said:


> Just feel good that people around here seem more interested in Medtner than Ifukube!


hmm not that relevant, man...


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## Philip

Hey i feel better when the music i listen to is little known - it makes me feel special :wave:

It seems as though a composer ought to be not too well-known, but at the same time not too little-known either... tell me, what is the amount of fame a composer should have?

This looks like more of a self-confidence issue from the listener's part if you ask me...


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## clavichorder

Philip said:


> Hey i feel better when the music i listen to is little known - it makes me feel special :wave:
> 
> It seems as though a composer ought to be not too well-known, but at the same time not too little-known either... tell me, what is the amount of fame a composer should have?
> 
> This looks like more of a self-confidence issue from the listener's part if you ask me...


Can you share with us something useful? Like your opinion on Medtner?


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## Philip

clavichorder said:


> Can you share with us something useful? Like your opinion on Medtner?


Yeah right away


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## clavichorder

As for your first post Philip if I understand you correctly, yes I do think I'm special for listening to Medtner, and honestly at first I couldn't separate my enjoyment of his music from my enjoyment of the smug fact that I enjoy his music, at first, but that motivated me to understand his music better. Means to an end. 

Seriously though, do you think Medtner deserves this rep I'm giving him? Do you feel the Medtner?


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## Ravellian

I do feel like you're trying to shove it down our throats a little too much.

I've heard a couple of CDs worth of his music, including many of the Skazka. I didn't find any of it particularly memorable or beautiful.


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## Tapkaara

Ravellian said:


> I do feel like you're trying to shove it down our throats a little too much.
> 
> I've heard a couple of CDs worth of his music, including many of the Skazka. I didn't find any of it particularly memorable or beautiful.


I applaud anyone in here who has so much passion for a composer or piece of music or whatever and make efforts to promote it. The music we like is an extension of our personalities, so, really, to ardently promote something like that you are actually doing a form of self-expression. Passionate self-expression should indeed be supported.

And if you don't like what's being promoted, that's fair. At least you tried it! But I think if one of our members sees a lot of value in something, we as fellow members should try to experience what they experience. The forum is here so we can share but sometimes we only want to give and not receive, ironically.


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## clavichorder

@Ravellian

I've come across some people who's taste I otherwise admire who can't seem to "get" Medtner. Thank you for expressing your opinion. The best case I can make for it is that you may one day have a Medtner epiphany, Hilltroll is right in that it requires attentiveness. My first reaction was that I enjoyed it but felt like I missed something, there was something going on that I wasn't getting. Now that I have an affinity for it, I can generally spot what he's doing.


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## Ravellian

Well, if you had to recommend ONE Medtner work to me that was your absolute favorite, what would it be? Maybe I'm missing something.

Also, it was interesting you mentioned the jazzy rhythms of Op. 9/2. However, it's really not true that this was the "jazziest thing before jazz"; you should check out this Gottschalk piece (composed 1850s):






For a mid-19th century piece, this has serious swing!


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## Vaneyes

I like many of the artists who like Medtner, such as Hamelin, Milne, Tozer, Scherbakov, Berezovsky, Demidenko, etc., but it didn't work out. It was around the lengthy period when I also didn't "get" Alkan, Gliere, Glazunov, Adams, Albert, D'Indy, Alwyn, Telemann, Weber, Bax, Bliss, Bridge, Busoni, Part, Glass, Finzi, MacDowell, Milhaud, Ornstein, Piston, Riley, Rochberg, Rorem, Rubbra, Suppe, Sor, Spohr, Tan, Tippett, Foss, Fux, Glinka, Gorecki, Weill, Widor, Wolf, Wolf-Ferrari, Xenakis, Zemlinsky, Krauss, Vanhal, Dittersdorf, and a host of other well-knowns and unknowns. Life goes on. There are plenty left to enjoy.


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## violadude

Ravellian said:


> Well, if you had to recommend ONE Medtner work to me that was your absolute favorite, what would it be? Maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> Also, it was interesting you mentioned the jazzy rhythms of Op. 9/2. However, it's really not true that this was the "jazziest thing before jazz"; you should check out this Gottschalk piece (composed 1850s):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a mid-19th century piece, this has serious swing!


Woah! I played a version of this for string orchestra when I was like 12! I never thought I would run into it again lol


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## norman bates

clavichorder said:


> Whoever posted this video is probably tired of getting notices from talkclassical saying that his video has been embedded! Its all my fault. Norman bates and anyone else, this is the best representation of skazki I know and a video to boot, and this is part 1 of 3, check them all out!


thanks i really like it, anyway a short list of selected works would be appreciated


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## clavichorder

Ravellian said:


> Well, if you had to recommend ONE Medtner work to me that was your absolute favorite, what would it be?


And Norman Bates


> thanks i really like it, anyway a short list of selected works would be appreciated


Based on what I like right now, I'd say two of the works I'd recommend would be neither sonata, skazka, or concerto, but a piece called Dithyramb, op. 10 number 2 and also his Elegy op. 59 no. 2 is very beautiful. Look for Milne's recording of both, and Demidenko's recording of Dithyramb for variety. Dithyramb op. 10 no. 2 starts off with a slightly stately chordal progression that gets more intense and romantic as time goes, this is as close to romantic as Medtner gets. The Elegie's beginning used to bore me and strike me as too indistinctly chromatic, but it also gets darkly emotional as it progresses.

When you are ready, check out the op. 8 set, 1 and 2. These two very different pieces in the same key are unified by the same chords played at the beginning and end of each. The first is very wistful to my ears. The second is very tricky, complex, has a weird kind of rhythmic groove to its main motif. Milne does two versions of this. Go for the one from 1980s if you can find it.

Op. 14 no. 2, March of the Paladin is a very athletic piece with a lot of canon counterpoint, this piece gets pretty tangled up. Rachmaninoff called it a miracle.

Op. 20 no. 1 is very hearty to my ears, and very succinct. Its counterpart no. 2 takes a special touch to get right. Berezovsky does it best in my opinion, its kind of metallic and hard core, and perhaps one can draw a parallel between Medtner and Prokofiev in this dry yet punchy piece, even though they were enemies.

His G Minor sonata is incredible when played by Emil Gilels. You can find this on youtube. If you are a Gilels fan, perhaps this will help.

For the 1st piano concerto, Yevgeny Sudbin does a marvelous recording.

For the 2nd, Hamelin is the way to go.

Demidenko does a great sonata Tragica.

If you like miniatures, check out his "Romantic Sketches for the Young". This is Medtner at his lightest. I am particularly fond of the Beggars's Tale from this set, and the Bird's Tale as well as the Hymn(which manages to sound cool while being purely diatonic for 1 whole page, then going into a mild Medtner frenzy). You can find Milne playing these lighter pieces on youtube all in one video.

Now, here's my list, I'm going to take a gamble and see if these pieces might appeal:

1) Dithyramb op. 10 no. 2
2) Elegie op. 59 no. 2
3) Skazki op. 8 1 and 2
4) Skazka op. 14 no. 2(March of the Paladin)
5) Skazka op. 20 no. 1(and maybe 2 for the curiosity, I like it but you may not at first)
6) G Minor sonata by Gilels!
7) Romantic Sketches
8) 1st piano concerto


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## clavichorder

So I guess for the number 1, go with Dithyramb op. 10 no. 2 unless you like any of the other description better.

I appreciate your willingness to try and hope I'm not being too forceful now, but more informative.


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## clavichorder

Vaneyes said:


> I like many of the artists who like Medtner, such as Hamelin, Milne, Tozer, Scherbakov, Berezovsky, Demidenko, etc., but it didn't work out. It was around the lengthy period when I also didn't "get" Alkan, Gliere, Glazunov, Adams, Albert, D'Indy, Alwyn, Telemann, Weber, Bax, Bliss, Bridge, Busoni, Part, Glass, Finzi, MacDowell, Milhaud, Ornstein, Piston, Riley, Rochberg, Rorem, Rubbra, Suppe, Sor, Spohr, Tan, Tippett, Foss, Fux, Glinka, Gorecki, Weill, Widor, Wolf, Wolf-Ferrari, Xenakis, Zemlinsky, Krauss, Vanhal, Dittersdorf, and a host of other well-knowns and unknowns. Life goes on. There are plenty left to enjoy.


Some of the composers from this list I like, others I don't, others I'm luke-warm about but would like to like(Piston, Busoni)


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## clavichorder

Also, I don't have access to headphones, but will listen to Gottschalk later. I have the impression that it may be a more "swingy", "raggy" type of Jazz, whereas I feel the Medtner has a "cool" "bebop" sort of feel, especially with the ending chords of that piece.


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## myaskovsky2002

When you love piano, you have to love Medtener. He's the piano magician...so personal. His music is unbelievable...I think I have all his works...But he didn't compose that much (Alas). Even if I love his piano concertos...I prefer hios solo piano pieces...You have a great Hamelin for these...He's Canadian! He's from Quebec!|

Big fan

Martin


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## clavichorder

The Gottschalk sounds latin in its rhythms a bit. You should try Medtner's op. 8 number 2 if you are thinking rhythmically jazzy/latin.


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## norman bates

clavichorder said:


> And Norman Bates
> 
> Based on what I like right now, I'd say two of the works I'd recommend would be neither sonata, skazka, or concerto, but a piece called Dithyramb, op. 10 number 2 and also his Elegy op. 59 no. 2 is very beautiful. Look for Milne's recording of both, and Demidenko's recording of Dithyramb for variety. Dithyramb op. 10 no. 2 starts off with a slightly stately chordal progression that gets more intense and romantic as time goes, this is as close to romantic as Medtner gets. The Elegie's beginning used to bore me and strike me as too indistinctly chromatic, but it also gets darkly emotional as it progresses.
> 
> When you are ready, check out the op. 8 set, 1 and 2. These two very different pieces in the same key are unified by the same chords played at the beginning and end of each. The first is very wistful to my ears. The second is very tricky, complex, has a weird kind of rhythmic groove to its main motif. Milne does two versions of this. Go for the one from 1980s if you can find it.
> 
> Op. 14 no. 2, March of the Paladin is a very athletic piece with a lot of canon counterpoint, this piece gets pretty tangled up. Rachmaninoff called it a miracle.
> 
> Op. 20 no. 1 is very hearty to my ears, and very succinct. Its counterpart no. 2 takes a special touch to get right. Berezovsky does it best in my opinion, its kind of metallic and hard core, and perhaps one can draw a parallel between Medtner and Prokofiev in this dry yet punchy piece, even though they were enemies.
> 
> His G Minor sonata is incredible when played by Emil Gilels. You can find this on youtube. If you are a Gilels fan, perhaps this will help.
> 
> For the 1st piano concerto, Yevgeny Sudbin does a marvelous recording.
> 
> For the 2nd, Hamelin is the way to go.
> 
> Demidenko does a great sonata Tragica.
> 
> If you like miniatures, check out his "Romantic Sketches for the Young". This is Medtner at his lightest. I am particularly fond of the Beggars's Tale from this set, and the Bird's Tale as well as the Hymn(which manages to sound cool while being purely diatonic for 1 whole page, then going into a mild Medtner frenzy). You can find Milne playing these lighter pieces on youtube all in one video.
> 
> Now, here's my list, I'm going to take a gamble and see if these pieces might appeal:
> 
> 1) Dithyramb op. 10 no. 2
> 2) Elegie op. 59 no. 2
> 3) Skazki op. 8 1 and 2
> 4) Skazka op. 14 no. 2(March of the Paladin)
> 5) Skazka op. 20 no. 1(and maybe 2 for the curiosity, I like it but you may not at first)
> 6) G Minor sonata by Gilels!
> 7) Romantic Sketches
> 8) 1st piano concerto


thank you, great post


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## myaskovsky2002

Vaneyes said:


> I like many of the artists who like Medtner, such as Hamelin, Milne, Tozer, Scherbakov, Berezovsky, Demidenko, etc., but it didn't work out. It was around the lengthy period when I also didn't "get" Alkan, Gliere, Glazunov, Adams, Albert, D'Indy, Alwyn, Telemann, Weber, Bax, Bliss, Bridge, Busoni, Part, Glass, Finzi, MacDowell, Milhaud, Ornstein, Piston, Riley, Rochberg, Rorem, Rubbra, Suppe, Sor, Spohr, Tan, Tippett, Foss, Fux, Glinka, Gorecki, Weill, Widor, Wolf, Wolf-Ferrari, Xenakis, Zemlinsky, Krauss, Vanhal, Dittersdorf, and a host of other well-knowns and unknowns. Life goes on. There are plenty left to enjoy.


What a mix of names...what a confusing message....the big list of composers is about the composers you don't get??? You mean you get just the oldies?

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

I think it would be interesting to listen to Medtner Chronologically...You will see clearly how he evolved...But...Medtner admirers should not ignore Lyatoshynsky (Ukranian)...He's also awesome but he goes a bit farer...and, why not...Alexandre Tcherepnin...

Let's show you...Medtner never composed a symphony, Lyato did.

















and the awesome:





I am convinced that IF Medtner had lived longer (d. 1951) his music could have been "related" to Lyatoshynsky (d. 1968). Medtner never wanted to be a modernist...I think he was a kind of expressionist....Lyatoshynsky's first 3 symphonies are classical...His 4th and 5th are quite modernist...And when I speak about Lyatoshynsky it is impossible to ignore the great Alexander Tcherepnin, son of Nikolai (who composed for the Dances festivals in France at the same time than Stravinsky, see Diagilev) and father of Ivan, an awful musician (IMHO).






=========================================
Nikolai, more classical....wonderful!






I couldn't find _La princesse lointaine_. A terrific short work by Nikolai Tcherepnin

Martin

P.S I don't know why I couldn't show you the images instead of the links...Internet is still a mistery for me, I guess. I'm really sorry.


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## Vaneyes

myaskovsky2002 said:


> What a mix of names...what a confusing message....the big list of composers is about the composers you don't get??? You mean you get just the oldies?
> 
> Martin


Sorry for the confusion. I tried not to discriminate.


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## graaf

Because people have this kind of a conflict. They want to feel special for listening to obscure composer, and at the same time, they want their composer of choice to be widely accepted. 

Variant of "to have cake and eat it".


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## clavichorder

graaf said:


> Because people have this kind of a conflict. They want to feel special for listening to obscure composer, and at the same time, they want their composer of choice to be widely accepted.
> 
> Variant of "to have cake and eat it".


Another nice witticism there, apologies if my original post offended you. What I'm more interested in is what people think of Medtner, so I will make an assumption that your post indicates an indifference to him, though it would do better to just say so. I will acknowledge that I was on my high horse, but what's wrong with being passionate about a composer? I am also a bit offended when others go so far as to doubt the validity of my own appreciation for Medtner or claim they understand why I like him. You can only know why you do or don't like him and respect me by taking my word for it that I like him for a good enough reason.


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## graaf

clavichorder said:


> What I'm more interested in is what people think of Medtner, so I will make an assumption that your post indicates an indifference to him, though it would do better to just say so. I will acknowledge that *I was on my high horse*, but what's wrong with being passionate about a composer? I am also a bit offended when others go so far as to doubt the validity of my own appreciation for Medtner or claim they understand why I like him. You can only know why you do or don't like him and respect me by t*aking my word for it that I like him for a good enough reason*.


Since when is "high horse" good enough reason?



clavichorder said:


> Another nice witticism there, apologies if my original post offended you.


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## hespdelk

I have thought quite highly of Medtner since I first discovered him.

His music is subtle and deep - superficial listening won't cut it for most of it. Harmonically and rythmically there are some astonishing things going on here.. His cycle of piano sonatas is one of the most important ever written in my opinion.

My personal favourite work of his is probably the wartime 3rd piano concerto... which in many ways isn't really typical of the main body of his work.. but it just appeals to me so strongly!


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## clavichorder

Oh poo poo graaf. :scold:


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## myaskovsky2002

clavichorder said:


> Another nice witticism there, apologies if my original post offended you. What I'm more interested in is what people think of Medtner, so I will make an assumption that your post indicates an indifference to him, though it would do better to just say so. I will acknowledge that I was on my high horse, but what's wrong with being passionate about a composer? I am also a bit offended when others go so far as to doubt the validity of my own appreciation for Medtner or claim they understand why I like him. You can only know why you do or don't like him and respect me by taking my word for it that I like him for a good enough reason.


People like that IMHO shouldn't even write here. Just ignore him. Don't spend you "saliva" or your keyboard, it is not worth. They should write in a light classic's thread...they have nothing useful to do...LOL

in Friendship

Martin


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## clavichorder

hespdelk said:


> My personal favourite work of his is probably the wartime 3rd piano concerto... which in many ways isn't really typical of the main body of his work.. but it just appeals to me so strongly!


Interesting that you are so fond of that work. I haven't gotten into it yet, do you have a recording you'd recommend? I still haven't listened to the whole thing.


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## hespdelk

clavichorder said:


> Interesting that you are so fond of that work. I haven't gotten into it yet, do you have a recording you'd recommend? I still haven't listened to the whole thing.


I would recommend the Demidenko version in Hyperion's excellent Romantic Piano Concerto series:










Admitedly, I don't know many recordings of this work - but then again I don't think there are many out there. I didn't much care for the Naxos rendition though, and I prefer the Demidenko even to the historic recording featuring Medtner himself as soloist with the Philharmonia orchestra - that version can't help but be interesting what with the composer himself at the piano, but the newer Hyperion recording does the work better justice not only in terms of sound but also performance, particularly the orchestra's contribution. Such were my thoughts the last time I heard them all at least - its been a couple of years, and this little discussion has made me want to go back and listen again.


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## DavidMahler

Great thread! I like Medtner very much and I would say I own about 10 CDs of his work, mostly on Hyperion which does a great job at documenting lesser knowns. I think the reason I never became a hardcore Medtner fan is that for me he doesn't have that ONE piece that just knocks it out of the park where you go back and reassess the composer's entire output. But when I return home, I'm gonna break out the Medtner CDs I have and listen with this thread in mind

I'd like to add a composer to the list tho...

Hugo Alfven in particular, whose 4th symphony is in my opinion after Mahler, Sibelius, Shostakovich and Prokofiev, the best symphonic work composed in the 20th Century. In fact if I were to put the Alfven 4th against any Prokofiev it would not be easy for me.

Franz Schmidt also.... Vastly underrated


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## myaskovsky2002

hespdelk said:


> I would recommend the Demidenko version in Hyperion's excellent Romantic Piano Concerto series:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admitedly, I don't know many recordings of this work - but then again I don't think there are many out there. I didn't much care for the Naxos rendition though, and I prefer the Demidenko even to the historic recording featuring Medtner himself as soloist with the Philharmonia orchestra - that version can't help but be interesting what with the composer himself at the piano, but the newer Hyperion recording does the work better justice not only in terms of sound but also performance, particularly the orchestra's contribution. Such were my thoughts the last time I heard them all at least - its been a couple of years, and this little discussion has made me want to go back and listen again.


This recording is absolutely great!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

Medtner? Let's see what I have...LOL

===================================================
MEDTNER NIKOLAI 12 SONGS LUDMILA ANDREW, SOPRANO - GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO LIEDE DISQUE COMPACT 31/05/2008 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI 8 SONGS LUDMILA ANDREW, SOPRANO - GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO LIEDE DISQUE COMPACT 31/05/2008 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI 3 HYMNS IN PRAISE OF TOIL, OP. 49 GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI 3 IMPROVISATIONS OP.2 GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI 3 NOVELS, OP. 17 GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.1 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. CCCP TV AND RADIO DIR. A. DIMITRIEV SYMPH CASSETTE AUDIO-ACH ETEE 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.1 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. TATIANA NIKOLAYEVA, PIANO - ORCH. DE LA URSS (DIR. EVGENY SV ETLANOV) SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.2 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. OP.50 CCCP ORCG. E. SVETLANOV, DIR SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.2 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. OP.50 BBS SCOTTISH SYMPH. (DIR. JERZY MAKSYMIUK) - PIANO: NIKOLAI DEMIDENKO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.2 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. OP.50 MOSCOW SYMPHONY ORCH (DIR. IGOR GOLOVSCHIN) - PIANO: KONSTAN TIN SCHERBAKOV) SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI CONCERTO NO.3 POUR PIANO ET ORCH. OP.60 BBS SCOTTISH SYMPH. (DIR. JERZY MAKSYMIUK) - PIANO: NIKOLAI DEMIDENKO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI DEUX MARCHES MARC-ANDR HAMELIN SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 21/09/2003 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI EIGHT MOOD PICTURES, OP. 1 GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI ETUDE OF MEDIUM DIFFICULTY GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI Fairy Tale op. 20, no. 1 in B flat minor Laurence Kayaleh, Violin - Paul Stewart, piano SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 23/02/2009 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI FORGOTTEN MELODIES MARC-ANDR HAMELIN SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 21/09/2003 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI GRACEFUL DANCE OP.38 NO.2 CCCP ORCG. E. SVETLANOV, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI IMPROVISATION OP. 31 GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI KNIGHT ERRANT FOR 2 PIANOS DMITRI ALEXEYEV, NIKOLAI DEMIDENKO, PIANOS SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 22/01/2007 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI PIANO QUINTET PIANO: KONSTANTIN SCHERBAKOV) SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI QUELQUES PIECES DE DE "STIMMUNGSBILDER", OP.1 E. SVETLANOV, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI RUSSIAN ROUND-DANCE FRO 2 PIANOS DMITRI ALEXEYEV, NIKOLAI DEMIDENKO, PIANOS SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 22/01/2007 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATA IN G OP. 22 BENNO MOISEYEVITCH, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATA REMINISCENCE OP.38 NO.1 CCCP ORCG. E. SVETLANOV, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATA REMINISCENZA EVGENY KISSIN SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 04/02/2009 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATE OP.11, NO.2 - ELEGIE CCCP ORCG. E. SVETLANOV, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 28/03/1997 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATE POUR PIANO NO. 7 EN MI MINEUR ORCH.SYMPH. DE LA RADIO DE MOSCOU (COND. IGOR GOLOVCHIN) PAU L STEWART, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 18/03/2002 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI SONATES COMPLETES MARC-ANDR HAMELIN SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 21/09/2003 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI Three Nocturnes, op. 16 Laurence Kayaleh, Violin - Paul Stewart, piano SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 23/02/2009 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI VERGESSENE WEISEN OP. 38 MARC-ANDR HAMELIN SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 21/09/2003 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI VIOLIN SONATA NO. 1 LYDIA MORDOVITCH, VIOLIN = GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI VIOLIN SONATA NO. 2 LYDIA MORDOVITCH, VIOLIN = GEOFFREY TOZER, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 16/09/2004 
MEDTNER NIKOLAI Violin sonata no.3 in E minor "Epica" Laurence Kayaleh, Violin - Paul Stewart, piano 
=====================================================================
I'm not sure I can get something else....

Martin


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## StlukesguildOhio

Damn! Medtner is another one of those composers who I have nothing by... but whom I have heard enough about to be intrigued by... only to discover that what quite likely are the best recordings (Hamelin) are only available in a rather expensive box set. There are any number of other composers who I have avoided for the same reason.


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## joen_cph

The Hamish Milne set of sonatas and piano works on the Brilliant label (7CDs) is a very good intoduction. His playing is often somewhat more temperamental than Hamelin´s. Milne´s was originally issued by the fine, small British CRD label.

Recommended recordings of the concerti are 
1 - Zhukov. Dynamite.
2 - versions don´t seem to be that different from each other
3 - Ponti. He plays it faster than the others, giving the music an "impressionistic" flow; never stops fascinating me.

EDIT: Milne includes all the sonatas.


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## Klavierspieler

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Damn! Medtner is another one of those composers who I have nothing by... but whom I have heard enough about to be intrigued by... only to discover that what quite likely are the best recordings (Hamelin) are only available in a rather expensive box set. There are any number of other composers who I have avoided for the same reason.


Actually, clavichorder told me he preferred Hamish Milne for Medtner. I don't know if that's any more reasonable.

Edit: joen_cph beat me to it.


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## myaskovsky2002

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Damn! Medtner is another one of those composers who I have nothing by... but whom I have heard enough about to be intrigued by... only to discover that what quite likely are the best recordings (Hamelin) are only available in a rather expensive box set. There are any number of other composers who I have avoided for the same reason.


He's a great composer...I'm sure you can find Hamelin used...If you don't want to spend so much money...Let me see

This one is new...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medtner-Ham...270856299547?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item3f104b241b

almost 45$ for many CDs...Not that bad

http://www.amazon.com/Medtner-Compl...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1322173502&sr=1-1
48.00$ at Amazon...

I think it is worth buying this...I bought several versions...not that good, finally I bought the Hamelin, I think he's the very best for Medtner...not that good for Scriabin, although I have Hamelin for both.

Martin

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

joen_cph said:


> The Hamish Milne set of sonatas and piano works on the Brilliant label (7CDs) is a very good intoduction. His playing is often somewhat more temperamental than Hamelin´s. Milne´s was originally issued by the fine, small British CRD label.
> 
> Recommended recordings of the concerti are
> 1 - Zhukov. Dynamite.
> 2 - versions don´t seem to be that different from each other
> 3 - Ponti. He plays it faster than the others, giving the music an "impressionistic" flow; never stops fascinating me.
> 
> EDIT: Milne includes all the sonatas.


I don't think we need a temperamental piano player for Medtner...He's rather a late romantic...Hamelin "understands" pretty well this composer....IMHO (of course). Michael Ponti is not good for Russians (IMHO)...recording to be avoided.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## StlukesguildOhio

I am quite willing to spend $45 for Krauss or Knappertsbush' Ring because I know and love Wagner and know what I am getting for my money. I'm even willing to pay $100+ for Solti, Karajan, and Kielberth's Ring for the same reason. However, when I'm just exploring a composer to see if I like him or her $45 is not a bargain. Indeed, $45 for just 4 discs is never a bargain. THIS is a bargain:










$53 for 34 discs!!!

And THIS is a bargain:










$43 for 21 discs!!

And THIS is a bargain:










$25 for 9 discs!

And THIS is a bargain:










$23 for 10 discs!!

Not $45 for 4 discs by a composer I'm not even sold on.

And not much of his piano works on Spotify.


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## hespdelk

DavidMahler said:


> Franz Schmidt also.... Vastly underrated


I agree - his 4th symphony is a masterpiece and one of the best written in that period in my view. To be honest, I've found it to be head and shoulders above the other 3 in terms of musical inspiration though... I am not very familiar with the rest of Schmidt's output.. it isn't easy to come by unfortuneatly.


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## joen_cph

> EDIT: Milne includes all the sonatas.
> I don't think we need a temperamental piano player for Medtner...He's rather a late romantic...Hamelin "understands" pretty well this composer....IMHO (of course). Michael Ponti is not good for Russians (IMHO)...recording to be avoided.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Martin


I agree that Ponti can be rushed and that his recordings have an outdated sound now and then. At least he is never robotically dull. His recorded complete Tchaikovsky solo works however are often good ("The Seasons", "18 Piano Pieces", "6 Pieces" etc.), and he must have credit for recording a lot of rare repertoire. But have you heard the Medtner concerto ? It is delicious, and the slow central section of the 1st movement does become dreamy, whereas the fast tempo is ravishing and folk-dance like in the later part of the concerto. The two Medtner sonatas he recorded are fine as well, but more outgoingly dramatic than many other issues. As said his concerto recording is somewhat different from the other available versions (which have slower approaches) and it is worth listening to also for that experience.

Would like to point out there at there is no vulgar virtuoso dimension to Milne´s recordings; we´re not talking superficiality here (I used the word "temperamental" in the English sense as "emotional" to characterize Milne, not the French meaning of "tempèrè" / "modified"). Have you heard them ? They include a good deal of other piano works as a bonus - Skazki etc. (I have both Hamelin and Milne as well as other sonata recordings - Gilels, Ginsburg, Yudina, to mention some - plus various recordings of the concerti). The Brilliant 7CD set also includes some sonatas played by Tozer.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2008/Apr08/Medtner_sonatas_8851.htm (Milne)

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12020 (Milne)

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Pag...cs,+oas:+68+and+64+minutes:+ODD).#header-logo (Milne)

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/march99/medtner.htm (Hamelin).

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/October 1998/24/853244/Nikolay+Medtner+meets+his+match (Hamelin)

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Pag...o+in+F+sharp+minor,+Op.+1,+Youth.#header-logo (Zhukov)

http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/May 1993/59/818358/BALAKIREV.ConcertoinEflata.n (Ponti)

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/July01/RomanticPiano5.htm (Ponti)

*This site is dedicated to some Medtner info:*
http://www.medtner.org.uk/links.html

(The Joyce Hatto link obviously not edited since the fraud scandal of "her" late recordings).


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## hespdelk

I've always admired Zilberstein's performance of the Forgotten Melodies here.. and wished she would record more Medtner. An added bonus on this disc is Taneyev's Prelude and Fugue, a wonderful and unjustly neglected work.

The Hamelin set gets all the attention for the sonatas (justifiably), but Geoffrey Tozer's set is not to be shunned either.


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## clavichorder

I'm not as impressed with Hamelin's playing on a lot of Medtner, but certain pieces demand a precision that only Hamelin can give. The best example I can think of is the Tocatta to the 2nd piano concerto.

What little work Berezovsky has done with the skazki is probably my favorite, but Milne is definitely enjoyable. For sonatas, I've yet to delve into recordings other than Milne and Hamelin, excepting the Gilels of G minor which is the best Medtner playing I know of, but then again I'm a blind fan of Gilels. I believe Yevgeny Sudbin does a great 1st piano concerto. I really like Sudbin and want him to do some solo Medtner.


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## joen_cph

Sudbin received very favourable reviews, I haven´t heard anything yet, but am looking forward to it.
It is great that a row of new pianists are playing Medtner (Sudbin, Berezovky, Scherbakov on Naxos, Hamelin etc.). 

We might have a "complete edition" of his works within a few years ..


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## myaskovsky2002

clavichorder said:


> I'm not as impressed with Hamelin's playing on a lot of Medtner, but certain pieces demand a precision that only Hamelin can give. The best example I can think of is the Tocatta to the 2nd piano concerto.
> 
> What little work Berezovsky has done with the skazki is probably my favorite, but Milne is definitely enjoyable. For sonatas, I've yet to delve into recordings other than Milne and Hamelin, excepting the Gilels of G minor which is the best Medtner playing I know of, but then again I'm a blind fan of Gilels. I believe Yevgeny Sudbin does a great 1st piano concerto. I really like Sudbin and want him to do some solo Medtner.


Sometimes you have no choice but have several versions...when speaking about "complete" stuff...Hamelin (*) plays very well Scriabin's first sonatas (1 to 3)...Others...less good indeed. Your ears are the best judge. Hamelin could be quite good for Russians...Buy not always. Some rare works you have no choice, just one version! It is the same about 6 of my Rimsky-Korsakov's operas. Pan Voyevoda, Servilia...Just one version...

Martin

(*) his Medtner sonatas box is a real jewel.
For these hesitating to "know" Medtner better, go to youtube. I have already posted many links. You'll see how great he is.
I couldn't say he's better than Liszt...but maybe I could call him...the Russian Liszt! LOL

Martin

Martin


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## Air

clavichorder said:


> For sonatas, I've yet to delve into recordings other than Milne and Hamelin, excepting the* Gilels of G minor which is the best Medtner playing I know of, but then again I'm a blind fan of Gilels.*


Yes, Gilels is magnificent. I got a lucky copy of this recording that came with one of the best Schubert F minor Fantasias ever (with his sister Elena Gilels).

But for the G minor sonata - and I know I'm getting a little historic here - why not Benno Moiseiwitsch? No questioning Gilels' greatness, but of the generation before, Moiseiwitsch was one of the titans of Romantic-era piano music (along with Rachmaninoff, Hofmann, and the lot of them). All of his Medtner (and Rachmaninoff) is equally well-rounded. In fact, I would definitely consider him the historical greatest performer of Medtner. His Fairy Tales, for example, are magnificent.

Gilels also played a great Reminiscenza, but if you haven't heard Richter's recording on Youtube you should check it out. It's a rare piece of footage - but with his utter mix of passion and sensitivity - Richter tells you that he _is_ the master.


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## violadude

The real question here is "Why am I so little known and under appreciated?"


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## Ukko

violadude said:


> The real question here is "Why am I so little known and under appreciated?"


1) He did not 'make it' as a performer (which Rachmaninoff was forced to do). 2) Much of his music is 'notey', meaning that the listener has to pay attention. 3) He was inflexible in his approach to music, rejecting any concession to the trends of the early 20th C.

He is very nearly 'one who disappeared'. When he finally had the opportunity to record his music he was old and seriously ill, so those recordings were not much help.

So... it was mostly a matter of a stiff neck followed by bad timing.


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## clavichorder

violadude said:


> The real question here is "Why am I so little known and under appreciated?"


How do you mean? Why do people keep thinking I'm attention seeking and my true intentions are not to talk about Medtner? I'm sorry if you don't mean that violadude, but Graaf and Philip certainly had it in their head to psychoanalyze me and I found it very obnoxious. Lets not have any of that, I find it very disrespectful.


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## violadude

clavichorder said:


> How do you mean? Why do people keep thinking I'm attention seeking and my true intentions are not to talk about Medtner? I'm sorry if you don't mean that violadude, but Graaf and Philip certainly had it in their head to psychoanalyze me and I found it very obnoxious. Lets not have any of that, I find it very disrespectful.


NoI meant, the real question here is why am I! so unknown and under appreciated! Me, violadude. I compose too but no one appreciates it except for a small following I have on some lame internet forum


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## Polednice

Bloody hell, what is wrong with some of you people? It's perfectly legitimate to disagree with someone or feel nothing but negativity about their thinking, but if you don't have anything actually constructive to say, just close the damn thread and walk away. I mean, why are you commenting? Do you just get a kick out of insulting people?

Particularly given that clavi is (I think) a valued member of this forum who has not previously shown prejudice or a superiority complex, I don't see why some of you are compelled to pull apart his mind with crappy psychology. He's just trying to share his passions for goodness' sake, which is what this whole forum is about, isn't it? ISN'T THAT WHY YOU JOINED?!

Never mind the crud you've written about clavi or anyone else listening to certain composers because it makes them feel better - I think it's much more telling that _you_ have to come on here and pretend that you know someone's subconscious motives. Do you want us to think you're clever? Well I think you're pathetic.

This pig is going on a rampage soon.


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## violadude

Polednice said:


> Bloody hell, what is wrong with some of you people? It's perfectly legitimate to disagree with someone or feel nothing but negativity about their thinking, but if you don't have anything actually constructive to say, just close the damn thread and walk away. I mean, why are you commenting? Do you just get a kick out of insulting people?
> 
> Particularly given that clavi is (I think) a valued member of this forum who has not previously shown prejudice or a superiority complex, I don't see why some of you are compelled to pull apart his mind with crappy psychology. He's just trying to share his passions for goodness' sake, which is what this whole forum is about, isn't it? ISN'T THAT WHY YOU JOINED?!
> 
> Never mind the crud you've written about clavi or anyone else listening to certain composers because it makes them feel better - I think it's much more telling that _you_ have to come on here and pretend that you know someone's subconscious motives. Do you want us to think you're clever? Well I think you're pathetic.
> 
> This pig is going on a rampage soon.


hopefully you saw my last message right before yours...


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## Polednice

violadude said:


> hopefully you saw my last message right before yours...


Hahaha, don't worry - your neck is safe from my fangs for now.


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## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> 1) He did not 'make it' as a performer (which Rachmaninoff was forced to do). 2) Much of his music is 'notey', meaning that the listener has to pay attention. 3) He was inflexible in his approach to music, rejecting any concession to the trends of the early 20th C.
> 
> He is very nearly 'one who disappeared'. When he finally had the opportunity to record his music he was old and seriously ill, so those recordings were not much help.
> 
> So... it was mostly a matter of a stiff neck followed by bad timing.


I think I agree perfectly with this. Medtner was rigid in his battle against modernism, and I don't agree with his disdain for the idioms of Prokofiev and R. Strauss, I find that I can listen to both Medtner and these composers. Medtner was poor at promoting himself and a lot of classic Medtner plays Medtner recordings are owed to funds from a generous east Indian patron of the arts.

It seems that Horowitz thought Medtner was purely a pianists composer and for some reason he didn't release any Medtner in his life, but was familiar and enjoyed playing Medtner by himself. Curious that he championed Clementi but not Medtner. Just think how Medtner would stand if Horowitz had performed him, look at what he did for Kreisleriana and Schumann, not to say Medtner is the same deal, but it would have helped.


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## Ukko

clavichorder said:


> [...]
> It seems that Horowitz thought Medtner was purely a pianists composer and for some reason he didn't release any Medtner in his life, but was familiar and enjoyed playing Medtner by himself. Curious that he championed Clementi but not Medtner. Just think how Medtner would stand if Horowitz had performed him, look at what he did for Kreisleriana and Schumann, not to say Medtner is the same deal, but it would have helped.


It could be that Horowitz couldn't find a 'handle' in Medtner's music, a way to give it a distinctly 'Horowitzian' interpretation. I enjoy Horowitz's playing (and am awed by the way he could hold an audience in thrall), but my reading suggests that his ego was distinctive, even amongst virtuoso pianists.


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## tdc

clavichorder said:


> It seems that Horowitz thought Medtner was purely a pianists composer and for some reason he didn't release any Medtner in his life, but was familiar and enjoyed playing Medtner by himself. Curious that he championed Clementi but not Medtner. Just think how Medtner would stand if Horowitz had performed him, look at what he did for Kreisleriana and Schumann, not to say Medtner is the same deal, but it would have helped.


Yes, but didn't Richter really champion Medtner? Surely this has been monumental in getting the composer recognized...and his popularity seems fairly strong at least here on the forums. I still often return to these youtube clips of Berezovsky playing Medtner Skazka. I love his interpretations. Does anyone here own actual Berezovsky rexcordings of Medtner Skazka? I'm curious to know if they sound similar to the youtube clips, as I've realized it is not simply Berezovsky's playing I admire so much but the softer tone of the piano he is using in those clips. I love pianos that sound like that.

(off topic - I am also looking for a cycle of Bach's WTC where the piano has this 'softer' tone if anyone has any suggestions).


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## HexameronVI

I absolutly love his Night Wind Sonata. The first time I heard it, I was a little turned off by how thick the music was...but I've listened to it again and again and I've grown to enjoy it.


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## clavichorder

@ tdc

Yes! Those are excellent video performances by Berezovsky, his playing is my favorite I've heard so far of these little pieces, though I enjoy Milne and admire that he recorded complete skazki. I do happen to have a few Berezovsky playing skazki on recording, if you are curious enough and have a gmail account you wouldn't mind PM'ing, I could send you these pieces. I think he does a great job in the studio recording as well, its still sounds like him. 

As for Richter championing Medtner, he may have mentioned his high regard for the composer and played a few sonatas, but I haven't heard many Richter recordings of Medtner. It seems he could have played more skazki in recitals. That would have helped.

@HexameronVI

The Night Wind sonata was hard for me at first too. I was more into the G minor, Sonata Tragica, and Sonata Skazka(same op. as Night Wind) on first few hearings, but Night Wind is really epic once you warm up to it.


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## clavichorder

Sometimes I wonder about the possibility of orchestrating Skazki...


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## myaskovsky2002

Skazka in Russian means fairy tale. Skazka o tsare Saltane (The story of Tsar Saltan, a Rimsky-Korsakov's opera) means that. Medtner was a champion and I love his music, nevertheless I enjoy Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Myaskovsky as well...There is a big place in my heart for all of them and many more. You can see my thread for Dallapiccola, the Italian dodecaphonic...I enjoy his music very much. I'm not used to denigrating composers, even if I am not a fan of them...and I don't think people should do that. We have to respect others. e.g. I don't like Bach very much....am I weird? Maybe I am, but please I ask respect for me.

Thank you

Martin

Martin


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## violadude

clavichorder said:


> Sometimes I wonder about the possibility of orchestrating Skazki...


I might take you up on that


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## kv466

Just in case you _still_ don't like him.


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## clavichorder

violadude said:


> I might take you up on that


I was hoping you'd bite actually! I want to do it myself some day too.


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## myaskovsky2002

kv466 said:


> Just in case you _still_ don't like him.


I just love it! Thank you, Spaciba!

Martin


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## clavichorder

Here's a terrific recording that I didn't know existed of Medtner's Dithyramb opus 10 no. 2.


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## myaskovsky2002

I just got this work...very inexpensive...(10$ with shipping)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001NG3PX4

Thank you!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

I am really excited. I received a 100$ gift on Amazon.com for Christmas and I bought the complete fairy tales by Medtner.(Skazki in Russian)










Happy Holidays!

Martin


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## clavichorder

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I am really excited. I received a 100$ gift on Amazon.com for Christmas and I bought the complete fairy tales by Medtner.(Skazki in Russian)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays!
> 
> Martin


One of the best Medtner CDs available! Enjoy!


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## myaskovsky2002

clavichorder said:


> One of the best Medtner CDs available! Enjoy!


Wow! Thank you...Until now I had some fairy tales...but all!....That's awesome!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

I betrayed myself yesterday while playing rummy with my wife...I started humming something....and it was "questa o quella" from Rigoletto...I guess I don't hate Verdi so much. LOL

I bought something interesting by Medtner yesterday: His Goethe leader.










Martin


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## clavichorder

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I betrayed myself yesterday while playing rummy with my wife...I started humming something....and it was "questa o quella" from Rigoletto...I guess I don't hate Verdi so much. LOL
> 
> I bought something interesting by Medtner yesterday: His Goethe leader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin


You are on a roll!


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## myaskovsky2002

clavichorder said:


> You are on a roll!


Well...I had so many gift cards (about 310$). My family is forcing me to spend money. LOL I bought 10 or 11 CDs and 2 DVDs untill now!

I also bought the complete chamber music by Borodin, of course I had many things...but other were impossible to get them otherwise.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukka.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

Why Medtner is less known? I think this is an easy one (or maybe not). Have you heard about the cold war? Have you heard about snob people?

1) Medtner is RUSSIAN, very Russian indeed
2) He was a late romantic...not as romantic as Rachmaninov (considered by experts as a minor composer)

As Schönberg was more considered than Zemlinsky (his brother in law) and Schreker (simply his friend) because their music was less innovative than Schönberg's. Shostakovich could "cross" the frontiers (being innovative) and Rachmaninov being "larmoyant". Tchaikovsky is equally an exception except his 10 operas, less known in the West...Just Evgeñi Onieguin and Pikovaia dama (the queen of spades) are known. I would say I prefer Scriabin to Medtner, nevertheless I adore Medtner's music. It is awesome....He's essentially a piano composer. A less known too is Alexandre Tcherepnin, a genious as his father (more conservative) Nikolai. His son is quite bad IMHO, Ivan. A common name a common music....






Martin


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## clavichorder

I totally agree that Alexander Tcherepnin is another fantastic neglected Russian composer. I love his 1st, 3rd, and 4th symphonies, 6th Piano concerto, and Piano trio. I don't know his father. Perhaps Alexander is deserving of his own thread? Poor Russian composers and their fate in the west.


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## myaskovsky2002

Nikolai was a genius...his music was promoted by Nijinsky (Ballet russes) as well as he did for Stravinsky....It is the same era.














Quite different than his son, his music was considered romantic and a bit impressionist. He was'nt innovative...just good music as Glazunov...He was forgotten in the West.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## clavichorder

Reviving this old embarrassment again in hopes that it can be a further source of information. I have no intention of being a Medtner fascist, and apologies if I have gotten that way... I am just loyal, and really interested in this music.

I am thinking of learning his Skazka op 8 no. 1






Or his Prologue op. 1 no. 1 to the mood pictures:


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## Feathers

clavichorder said:


> Reviving this old embarrassment again in hopes that it can be a further source of information. I have no intention of being a Medtner fascist, and apologies if I have gotten that way... I am just loyal, and really interested in this music.


I sincerely thank you for reviving this thread and sharing these links of Medtner's music! They are very useful and enjoyable to me!


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## PetrB

Older thread, but Medtner, as you wrote this, was / is riding the crest of a very current and popular vogue. Rather the opposite of 'little known.'

That vogue now, it seems, has only gathered momentuum. 
(The 'first wave' for a lot of material from this period was in the 1970's.)


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## clavichorder

I guess it remains for history to be seen whether he'll ever have a more solid place in the pianist canon. I suspect, but I don't know since I've yet to play complete piece of his and works of a variety of other composers, that pianists could learn a lot from his works. I think the same of Clementi.


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## PetrB

clavichorder said:


> @Ravellian
> 
> I've come across some people who's taste I otherwise admire who can't seem to "get" Medtner. Thank you for expressing your opinion. The best case I can make for it is that you may one day have a Medtner epiphany, Hilltroll is right in that it requires attentiveness. My first reaction was that I enjoyed it but felt like I missed something, there was something going on that I wasn't getting. Now that I have an affinity for it, I can generally spot what he's doing.


I can guarantee you, short of a brain injury (God Forbid!) I will not "one day have a Medtner epiphany." I find nothing there of any interest to me, and it all strikes my ear as rather bland, regardless of 'craft.'

I sometimes wonder if all those digging up and dusting off these fine but 'second tier (or less than) composers are just so hungry for 'more like' the style of an era that they are ready to go beyond the plenty of great music by the best of that same era -- just to have 'more.'


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## Ravndal

Nr 2 & 3 from "Sonata-Triade, op11" is very beautiful, and often listened to.


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## Cosmos

Oh I agree 100%. Medtner's music is top notch. I was actually surprised when I first looked him up, because I didn't expect his music to be so ingenious. Maybe he's not well known because of the the era he lived in? He wasn't much of an innovator...kinda like Brahms.


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## 4chamberedklavier

Digging up an ancient post, but I appreciate Clavichorder's zeal in promoting the lesser known Russian composers. In my search for counterpoint-heavy music (that aren't from the baroque-classical period) I often saw Medtner & Taneyev's names being mentioned & having listened to some of their pieces, I am intrigued. Seems like they were just what I was looking for. (I tried listening to other contrapuntal composers like Reger & Hindemith, but they did not speak to me the way the two Russians did. I may have to listen to them more.)


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## hammeredklavier

I haven't found his melodies as memorable as those of Scriabin and Rachmaninoff. What do you think are his best melodies?


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## 59540

Maybe because he wasn't as eccentric as Scriabin, and unlike Rachmaninoff he didn't leave Russia after 1917.


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## 4chamberedklavier

I'm quite new to classical, & to be honest I haven't explored Scriabin & Rachmaninov yet, since they're more well known. I'm looking around for some lesser-known composers first before I go for the big ones (though I have been consciously avoiding Rachmaninov since I've read that his melodies tend to be too sentimental). I'm not familiar enough with Medtner to have remembered any melodies yet, but I find the general mood of his music to be welcoming.


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## Bulldog

hammeredklavier said:


> I haven't found his melodies as memorable as those of Scriabin and Rachmaninoff. What do you think are his best melodies?


I consider the violin sonata no. 3 his most endearing work. As for melodies, I agree he doesn't approach Scriabin or Rachmaninov.


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## AaronSF

I've tried and tried to like Medtner. I've read through (and listened to) many of his piano composition, listened to his concerti and some of his chamber music, and...nothing. I don't dislike his music, per se. I just find it boring. Partly it's the constant movement without a pause, especially noticeable in the piano concerti. Once started, the pianist has to just keep going, often at a nearly break-neck speed, one virtuosic run after another, and never comes to rest until the end of the movement. It's exhausting but not fulfilling.

Then there is his, in my opinion, weak melodic writing. It's one thing to abandon melody altogether but quite another to write melodies so devoid of anything memorable that the listener has trouble recalling if he heard a particular melody or melodic fragment before in the piece.

And he's not a very good orchestrator. A lot of the time he seems to forget altogether that he has woodwinds at his disposal. He'll include a short flute or oboe solo line, maybe, but he rarely incorporated woodwinds as a section in his orchestral writing. That's leaving a lot of color out of the whole.

To Medtner fans I say peace be with you; I'm totally ready to attribute my difficulty with Medtner to personal preference and leave it at that!


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## golfer72

Ive been interested in Medtner for awhile now. Mostly the solo piano works. I find they dont reveal their secrets right away especially the sonatas. I just listened to the Night Wind sonata the other day and found it held together much better for me than the last time which was awhile ago! I was able to hear different themes and motifs more readily. I find him much more interesting than Scriabin. Rachmaninoff is in my top 5 composers for solo piano. So somewhere between those two. I have to work on Scriabin some more in the hopefully years ahead.


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## Strange Magic

4chamberedklavier said:


> I'm quite new to classical, & to be honest I haven't explored Scriabin & Rachmaninov yet, since they're more well known. I'm looking around for some lesser-known composers first before I go for the big ones (though I have been consciously avoiding Rachmaninov since I've read that his melodies tend to be too sentimental). I'm not familiar enough with Medtner to have remembered any melodies yet, but I find the general mood of his music to be welcoming.


If you listen first to Medtner, then the music of Rachmaninoff will blow the top of your head off. They were great friends but.......


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