# Why is there this thought that classical music gives happiness?



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

Classical musics can give sadness too. I myself am a depressed person. I am usually into the classical musics that I feel sadness. People say classical musics give happiness. Why do people generalize a type of music this way? I want to feel sadness in a classical music.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Well, there are these immediate affections and then there are these more general feelings toward life. Aristotle knew a lot about it, and gave us this concept of "catharsis" that we've debated on for 2000+ years. But in spite of all the confusion about the term, he was sure more or less right. Negative things in art can be presented in such a way that as a result, the audience ultimately feels better.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Aren't you happy that you have sad music to listen to?


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

atsizat said:


> Classical musics can give sadness too. I myself am a depressive person. I am usually into the classical musics that I feel sadness. *People say classical musics give happiness. *Why do people generalize a type of music this way? I want to feel sadness in a classical music.


Which people say that?

I'm reminded of playing some Mozart while a builder was in my house and the guy turning to me and saying, rather unexpectedly: _"I can see why those classical composers all killed themselves"_

And that was for Mozart.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I find, not happiness, but great poignant beauty in sadness. I cannot say the experience of beauty equates to happiness necessarily.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

violadude said:


> Aren't you happy that you have sad music to listen to?


I am glad I have them. Sure. I like feeling the sadness.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

The voyage of discovery is exhilerating, even if the individual discoveries are "sad" (though, actually, I can't think of any works that I'd give such a simple description)


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SimonNZ said:


> Which people say that?
> 
> I'm reminded of playing some Mozart while a builder was in my house and the guy turning to me and saying, rather unexpectedly: _"I can see why all those classical composers all killed themselves"_
> 
> And that was for Mozart.


Ya, all but 0 of those classical composers who killed themselves 

I can only think of 2 attempts off the top of my head, let alone successful suicides.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Most classical music flows through so many different tempi and colours that it is difficult to assign one mood to the entire piece. How we end up feeling comes from our own mood, I think. As Xaltotun said, music that sounds sad can make many of us feel happy (through catharsis), while those so disposed might feel even sadder. I kind of think Weston was saying the same thing—about beauty—but from another angle.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> Most classical music flows through so many different tempi and colours that it is difficult to assign one mood to the entire piece. How we end up feeling comes from our own mood, I think. As Xaltotun said, music that sounds sad can make many of us feel happy (through catharsis), while those so disposed might feel even sadder. I kind of think Weston was saying the same thing-about beauty-but from another angle.


Vivaldi has this thing. Melody always changes. For example, it starts kind of happy and then melody turns into sadness and I feel the sadness. Melody changes in Vivaldi's Pieces. The pieces of Vivaldi doesn't go on the same way as they start. Melodies always change. Melodies turn into sadness and then melodies change again. Vivaldi's Pieces are like that. I like how Vivaldi's happy pieces turn into sadness when I go on listening. For example between 0 seconds and 2 minutes are happy and in 3rd minute, melody turns into sadness and at 4:30 the melody that had turn into sadness changes again. Melodies change at every minute in Vivaldi's pieces.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2015)

violadude said:


> Ya, all but 0 of those classical composers who killed themselves
> 
> I can only think of 2 attempts off the top of my head, let alone successful suicides.


Some strongly believe that Tchaikovsky committed suicide by purposely drinking contaminated water. He died several days later of Cholera. He was often depressed and there is some debatable evidence that he was about to be "outed" and publicly shamed regarding his homosexuality.

Regarding the topic of the thread, most classical music makes me happy. I am usually a positive and happy person to begin with. So I would say that what people find in music is personal and individual. A generally sad person might think Mozart sounds sad. I do not.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2015)

violadude said:


> Ya, all but 0 of those classical composers who killed themselves
> 
> I can only think of 2 attempts off the top of my head, let alone successful suicides.


B. A. Zimmermann coulda totally stuck around another 30 years :/


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Classical music is the only music that can make you happy _while making you sad at the same time_. I'll give you just one example. "O du mein holder Abendstern..." from Tannhäuser is certainly a sad aria. But when I was listening to Peter Mattei sing it last night, I was also very happy and grateful for being there and being able to experience that sadness. I think that is what the Greeks meant by catharsis - joy through beauty, even if it is a tragic beauty.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Jerome said:


> Some strongly believe that Tchaikovsky committed suicide by purposely drinking contaminated water. He died several days later of Cholera. He was often depressed and there is some debatable evidence that he was about to be "outed" and publicly shamed regarding his homosexuality.
> 
> Regarding the topic of the thread, most classical music makes me happy. I am usually a positive and happy person to begin with. So I would say that what people find in music is personal and individual. A generally sad person might think Mozart sounds sad. I do not.


Read Poznansky's biography of Tchaikovsky, 603ff. This rumor is nonsense and has been thoroughly debunked. It was promulgated by one R.A. Mooser, a Swiss writer and organist who arrived in St. Petersburg in 1896 and who was never an insider in the musical circles of the city. He was probably just trying to make his as yet unplublished memoirs more interesting by repeating a baseless, if juicy, rumor. He claims that Glazunov confirmed the underlying story (seduction of apartment manager's son in his brother Modest's building, blah blah blah) of what led to the impending "scandal." There is no evidence that Glazunov ever confirmed it nor did he write about it anywhere. Moreover, Tchaikovsky's homosexuality was an open secret and it would be odd to think he would commit suicide to keep a secret that was already fairly widely known. Tchaikovsky was actually relatively happy at this time, buoyed by the great success of his Pathetique Symphony.

In fact, Tchakovsky never attempted suicide, unless one is silly enough to think standing in the shallows of a river for a few minutes in the hopes of catching a really bad cold counts as a suicide attempt.

Let these asinine rumors die!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I don't think sad music, as a rule, makes people feel actual sadness in any personal sense. Isn't it more like intensely identifying with the sadness of a fictional character, as one does reading a novel? This jibes with the oft-reported fact that the experience of such sadness during listening is actually intensely pleasurable at the same time.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

atsizat said:


> Classical musics can give sadness too. I myself am a depressed person. I am usually into the classical musics that I feel sadness. People say classical musics give happiness. Why do people generalize a type of music this way? I want to feel sadness in a classical music.


Great classical music have a range of moods. Like I was discussing for example about La Boheme by Puccini, it literally has all the key moods of human emotions. Maybe it is this impressive range of moods that give "happiness" - satisfaction upon listening a great piece.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> In fact, Tchakovsky never attempted suicide, unless one is silly enough to think standing in the shallows of a river for a few minutes in the hopes of catching a really bad cold counts as a suicide attempt.


Unless one is trying to play hooky from school or something, that strikes me as a very strange impulse.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Weston said:


> I find, not happiness, but great poignant beauty in sadness. I cannot say the experience of beauty equates to happiness necessarily.


It does for me. 
So my answer to the OP question would be: Because it's beautiful


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Apart from the actual source, which to me is a wellspring of emotional revelations that my life is the richer for, classical music does make me sad in a certain sense. I have become so devoted to it that it is all to easy and probably not entirely off the mark to blame my social isolation on it. I wish I had more friends in real life to talk about it with, but people just aren't interested.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

One gets a feeling of triumph and accomplishment when one finishes listening to a really long symphony without leaving for any breaks in-between. Next up: Wagner's entire Ring Cycle!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> Apart from the actual source, which to me is a wellspring of emotional revelations that my life is the richer for, classical music does make me sad in a certain sense. I have become so devoted to it that it is all to easy and probably not entirely off the mark to blame my social isolation on it. I wish I had more friends in real life to talk about it with, but people just aren't interested.


When you have the freedom to choose where to live, you've got to move to a city with a better music scene. London, New York, something like that. There are people to talk about music with. (Some of them are kind, strong women who might fall in love with a passionate musician. So good luck with that!)


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

atsizat said:


> Classical musics can give sadness too. I myself am a depressed person. I am usually into the classical musics that I feel sadness. People say classical musics give happiness. Why do people generalize a type of music this way? I want to feel sadness in a classical music.


People who generalize about classical music - like, "it's for relaxing" or "it's for nerds" or "it's for old people" or anything like that - almost never know much about classical music.

For that matter, here on tc you can see a lot of generalizing about pop music, and in at least some cases the same holds for us!

The emotion that I crave most in music might be anger.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> One gets *a feeling of triumph and accomplishment *when one finishes listening to a really long symphony without leaving for any breaks in-between.


you make it sound like an ordeal rather than a pleasurable activity


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

atsizat said:


> I myself am a depressed person. ...... I want to feel sadness in a classical music.


I had a period of very severe clinical depression some years ago - the *last* thing I wanted at that time was to feel sadness.

I simply don't understand how anyone with depression would want more of the pain of sadness


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I had a period of very severe clinical depression some years ago - the *last* thing I wanted at that time was to feel sadness.
> 
> I simply don't understand how anyone with depression would want more of the pain of sadness


Being sad can sometimes relieve stress and make you feel better.


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## JD Reyes (Nov 3, 2015)

I do find happiness in classical music, but I can find the entire spectrum of emotion as well. I think for me that if I were to pick a word that describes what I feel overall, it would have to be satisfaction. Satisfaction because regardless of what my current mood is, I can find some sort of music that either enhances, balances or complements that mood.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Being sad can sometimes relieve stress and make you feel better.


it might make 'you' feel better to be 'sad', but when I was seriously depressed I was desperate to avoid feeling overwhelmed by sadness - I just wanted to esacpe the sadness by *any* means possible


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

I wouldn't say most western classical music makes me feel happy. The works that I like the best make me feel invigorated and kind of like I'm possessed by some energy that has a life of its own and momentarily was sharing an existence with me (or something).



JD Reyes said:


> I do find happiness in classical music, but I can find the entire spectrum of emotion as well. I think for me that if I were to pick a word that describes what I feel overall, it would have to be satisfaction. Satisfaction because regardless of what my current mood is, I can find some sort of kmusic that either enhances, balances or complements that mood.


^ That sounds about right to me.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

atsizat said:


> Vivaldi has this thing. Melody always changes. For example, it starts kind of happy and then melody turns into sadness and I feel the sadness. Melody changes in Vivaldi's Pieces. The pieces of Vivaldi doesn't go on the same way as they start. Melodies always change. Melodies turn into sadness and then melodies change again. Vivaldi's Pieces are like that. I like how Vivaldi's happy pieces turn into sadness when I go on listening. For example between 0 seconds and 2 minutes are happy and in 3rd minute, melody turns into sadness and at 4:30 the melody that had turn into sadness changes again. Melodies change at every minute in Vivaldi's pieces.


You just happened to pick on classical music, you should seek for the reason of depression with psychiatrists not with any kind of music.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

Ariasexta said:


> You just happened to pick on classical music, you should seek for the reason of depression with psychiatrists not with any kind of music.


What do you mean I pick on classical music? I like sad classical musics. I like feeling sad with sad classical musics.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> I don't think sad music, as a rule, makes people feel actual sadness in any personal sense. Isn't it more like intensely identifying with the sadness of a fictional character, as one does reading a novel? This jibes with the oft-reported fact that the experience of such sadness during listening is actually intensely pleasurable at the same time.


In non-classical, blues music (which is about sad topics such as a guy's woman leaving him) generally makes one feel good, kind of like commiserating with a friend who went through a similar situation.


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## hagridindminor (Nov 5, 2015)

I think classical composers, even when writing beautiful pieces, creates a sense of sadness because the listener comes to a sense of realization that the music is not a reflection of what is, but rather what could be. I think that is why I feel like more lighter, brighter pieces are far more sad, where as harder ones typically represent pent up frustration, that is the way I see it at least.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Florestan said:


> In non-classical, blues music (which is about sad topics such as a guy's woman leaving him) generally makes one feel good, kind of like commiserating with a friend who went through a similar situation.


In the words of Bleedin' Guns Murphy, the Blues isn't about making yourself feel better, it's about making other people feel worse.

Admittedly, he was fictional.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2015)

atsizat said:


> Why is there this thought that classical music gives happiness?


Because it does? Of course it also gives sadness too. Which I feel in response to any particular piece depends on my mood at the time and the piece in question.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

I do not think great music has anything particularly to do with making us happy or sad, but holds a mirror up to the great joys and conversely the great tragedies in our lives. Donald Tovey talking of Beethoven, said his music ran through every artery of our lives, and we hear all our hopes and fears and all other emotions. Music may magnify what is going on in our lives but at times it catches us off guard and we see the added poignancy and beauty it brings with it.

Whether music makes us happy or sad is a matter of opinion but the one thing it can do is give you comfort and solace as few other things do. Certainly if you choose certain pieces they will magnify the emotions you are experiencing at that time they will affect you. I have been interested in listening to what I would consider very heavy pieces - some of the Shostakovich symphonies for example - and found it very satisfying to find the beauty in the bleakness, but I have never been converted to a depressed mood through a piece of music.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> it might make 'you' feel better to be 'sad', but when I was seriously depressed I was desperate to avoid feeling overwhelmed by sadness - I just wanted to esacpe the sadness by *any* means possible


As an (incredibly rabid) Inside Out fan, this statement rubs me wrong.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> As an (incredibly rabid) Inside Out fan, this statement rubs me wrong.


all I chose to say on this topic is that I sincerely hope that you never suffer severe clinical depression

I choose to make no further comment on this topic - I ask you to please respect my choice :tiphat:


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> all I chose to say on this topic is that I sincerely hope that you never suffer severe clinical depression
> 
> I choose to make no further comment on this topic - I ask you to please respect my choice :tiphat:











"Everyone thinks I'm bad..."


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## LHB (Nov 1, 2015)

I find Penderecki dismisses this notion rather quickly.


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