# The 'epic' Symphony



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Nowadays the format of a symphony almost always carries the connotation of a grand-scale, epic _tour de force_. However, symphonies obviously weren't always perceived or even written in that way, if you look at Haydn's 106 symphonies and Mozart's 42 for instance. Of course, when using wishy-washy statements like 'epic' you reach disagreements in semantics, as one could certainly consider the Jupiter symphony as 'epic' but it's hard to argue it's not the exact same kind of 'epic' as the bombast of Mahler or Nielsen or literally anyone else you could name.

I've always been under the assumption that Beethoven was the first to introduce the concept of grand scale, _tour de force_ symphonic writing into the repertoire the way we know it today, which in turn inspired Schubert. Even then, not all his symphonies carried that immense weight and are more light-hearted in character, such as the 8th. But is that assumption true? I'm not really sure. Beethoven's fusion of classical and romantic aesthetics would lead me to believe that's true, but I'm no scholar by any means. Maybe there was 'epic' symphonic writing prior to Beethoven?

The symphony format has the tendency to be pigeonholed as the way I describe it above, but it would be interesting to hear a symphony from a 20th century or contemporary composer who wrote one with a light-hearted symphony, less ambitious in regards to scale. I'm sure they exist, I've just yet to come across one. The lighter symphonies post-Beethoven are usually called _sinfoniettas _ which is probably the best way to distinguish the types of symphonic writing from each other.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Britten's Simple Symphony qualifies as 'light' as does Shostakovich's 9th imv. Malcom Arnold's symphonies often have light themes influenced by popular music too.


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

mikeh375 said:


> Britten's Simple Symphony qualifies as 'light' as does *Shostakovich's 9th* imv. Malcom Arnold's symphonies often have light themes influenced by popular music too.


I have that piccolo theme from the 1st movement stuck in my head now, thanks for reminding me :lol:. That's actually a perfect example of a modern light symphony.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> The symphony format has the tendency to be pigeonholed as the way I describe it above, but it would be interesting to hear a symphony from a 20th century or contemporary composer who wrote one with a light-hearted symphony, less ambitious in regards to scale.


----------



## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Don Gillis' Symphony No. 5½


----------



## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> I have that piccolo theme from the 1st movement stuck in my head now, thanks for reminding me :lol:. That's actually a perfect example of a modern light symphony.


I think Shostakovich said that it was 'all Mozart' - something like that.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> I think Shostakovich said that it was 'all Mozart' - something like that.


Bernstein discusses the influence of Haydn on that Shostakovich symphony:


----------



## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Beethoven's _Eroica_ is the truly first 'epic' symphony as far as I am concerned.

Regarding 20th century I'm thinking ot these 'light' ones right now: Prokofiev 1, Ives 3, Irving Fine Symphony and Martinu 2.


----------



## Axter (Jan 15, 2020)

^ I agree.

Beethoven did lots of “epics” starting with Eroica, and moving the Pastoral and the 9th. Bruckner and Mahler took the “epics” to whole different level.

That being said, I am enjoying the smaller scale works more. Very often, I find myself returning to Mozart and Schumann and various Piano and Violin Concertos. But a good Mahler 5th or 6th and Bruckners 4th, 7th and 8th I can take any day.


----------

