# Schubert - Symphony no. 9 - Furtwängler



## apbsen

Which of Furtwängler's recordings of *Schubert's Symphony no. 9* is, in your opinion, the best version?

Both in terms of artistic quality and also sound quality.

There are several different recordings by Furtwängler from the early 1940's and 1950's, remastered and released on various labels (DG, Naxos, Tahra etc.)

What are the pros and cons of the different versions?


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## DaDirkNL

My favourite one is the '53 Vienna recording. It has the best sound, and the interpretation is no different from, for example, the '53 Berlin version.


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## apbsen

Thank you for the recommendation!

I can't seem to find the '53 Vienna recording anywhere - is it available for purchase on CD?


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## DaDirkNL

I've always listened to a Youtube version:




But here's a link to Allmusic:
http://www.allmusic.com/performance/symphony-no-9-in-c-major-the-great-d-944-mq0000511403


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## Couac Addict

I lean towards his '51/52 recording. I actually think the '42 has more emotion/excitement than any of them but the 40s audio is a problem.


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## Manxfeeder

Couac Addict said:


> I actually think the '42 has more emotion/excitement than any of them but the 40s audio is a problem.


That one, despite the sound, does stand apart.


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## Pip

Both 1953 versions are Radio broadcasts and the Vienna Phil is from the Salzburg Festival 30 August 1953 and was on a double CD by EMI of the complete concert.
The Berlin Phil performance is from 16 days later - 15th september 1953 as part of the Berlin Festwochen.
Issued on Tahra - and recently on Audite as part of the great set of all his BPO concerts recorded from 1947 - 1954 on the RAIS radio channel.
This is in incredible sound and the complete set is quite cheap.
However the VPO performance is just as good.
I prefer the Berlin performance and sound.


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## apbsen

Has the Berlin performance from 1953 been issued on a single CD (ie. not part of a set)?

I haven't been able to find it, neither on Amazon nor on Tahra's website. 

(I've found the Vienna/Salzburg performance from 1953 on the EMI double CD - thank you


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## Granate

I'm having many doubts about the Studio Furtwängler performance of Symphony No.9 in C major

Which Remaster do you prefer? Naxos or DG?































... continue


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## Granate

I cannot find the Streaming copy of the first movement for DG, so I went for the Allegro vivace. I'm listening through Spotify.


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## flamencosketches

Can't say I'm familiar with any of them (or indeed much of Furtwängler's work at all), but I love this symphony and will try and check out his take on it. I'm looking at a CD on Deutsche Grammophon that contains the 9th and the Rosamunde Overture, with the Berlin Philharmonic. Anyone know when this version was recorded?









Think it will be a good introduction to this conductor? Looking to expand from the old favorites (Böhm, Karajan, Solti, Szell, etc.)


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## Granate

flamencosketches said:


> I'm looking at a CD on Deutsche Grammophon that contains the 9th and the Rosamunde Overture, with the Berlin Philharmonic. Anyone know when this version was recorded?


That performance is the same as the DG remastered CD posted above:










I think this Schubert is a very good introduction to Wilhelm Furtwängler, but the conductor has other milestones in Opera (Don Giovanni Salzburg 1954, Tristan und Isolde 1952 Fidelio 1953, the Scala Wagner Ring) and especially in symphonies (Beethoven War and Post-War set in Adromeda, the Brahms set... some Bruckner performances...). I don't think his recordings have usually good sound quality, and usually his performances are a big hit or miss.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> Can't say I'm familiar with any of them (or indeed much of Furtwängler's work at all), but I love this symphony and will try and check out his take on it. I'm looking at a CD on Deutsche Grammophon that contains the 9th and the Rosamunde Overture, with the Berlin Philharmonic. Anyone know when this version was recorded?
> 
> View attachment 113622
> 
> 
> Think it will be a good introduction to this conductor? Looking to expand from the old favorites (Böhm, Karajan, Solti, Szell, etc.)


From that generation of conductor, I think Mengelberg is rather more my cup of tea in that particular symphony. Furtwangler is particularly good Beethoven I'd say (Eroica for example)


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## Brahmsianhorn

All his versions of the 9th are good, but to me the '53 stands out as the most inspired and makes an unbeatable coupling with the 8th from the same concert. I have the deleted Tahra single CD. I have seen that Japan is trying to resurrect and reissue these Tahra Furtwangler CDs.

The 1951 studio is still very good. The 1942 is of course very intense - many swear by it - but I think 1953 captures the varying moods more successfully. I have never heard of a 1953 VPO version.


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## Brahmsianhorn

flamencosketches said:


> Think it will be a good introduction to this conductor? Looking to expand from the old favorites (Böhm, Karajan, Solti, Szell, etc.)


I'd also highly recommend the Schumann 4th. A lesser known work that sounds greater in Furtwangler's hands as he displayed his gifts of interpretation. From there the Beethoven 9th (1951 Orfeo or 1954 Audite), Brahms symphonies (Music & Arts box set), and Bruckner symphonies (also Music & Arts box set) are good places to go next.

The Schumann has really good sound being a studio recording, but one in which Furtwangler insisted upon a single recording take. He detested studio recordings as they took away from the feeling of spontaneity he preferred.


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## Granate

Granate said:


> I'm having many doubts about the Studio Furtwängler performance of Symphony No.9 in C major
> 
> Which Remaster do you prefer? Naxos or DG?


Friendly reminder, clips above.


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## ccar

*Six Furtwangler versions*

There are at least 6 recordings of Schubert's Great Symphony conducted by Furtwangler.

•	8th Dec 1942 Berlin, BPO Live - DG
•	12th May 1943 Stockholm, VPO Live - Tahra
•	18th June 1950 Berlin, BPO Live - Delta
•	Dec 1951 Berlin, BPO Studio - DG 
•	30th Aug 1953 Salzburg, VPO Live - Tahra
•	15th Sept 1953 Berlin, BPO Live - Audite

The 1942 version has the typical characteristics of Furtwangler wartime recordings and is probably one of the most "intense" accounts of the Great Symphony. Obviously, each of the other versions has its merits and many may prefer the more natural poise of the studio 1951. But if we want to explore a more striking contrast with the telluric and extraordinary 1942 I recommend listening to what I feel as a more searching poetic Furtwangler at the Salzburg 1953 VPO concert.

1942 BPO





1943 VPO





1951 BPO





1953 VPO





1953 BPO


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## 89Koechel

A GREAT retrospective, ccar - and many thanks!! Even as a member of the (present) WF Society, based-in France (and I'm in America), I didn't realize that there were so-numerous (even, if only, 5) examples of the ol' master, in one of his favorites. It's so-remarkable how WF could "shift gears"/(shift tempos), and how those great Orchestras (VPO and/or BPO) could stay WITH him, and how the entire performances could achieve such-cohesiveness, and cogency.


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## 89Koechel

Well, also, maybe not many will accept SOME of the WF tempo changes, such as around the 6 minute mark of the 1942 performance … but these are BRIEF, and they don't "damage", so to speak, the overall, performance/1942, in any way ….


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## 89Koechel

Brahmsianhorn - (" … detested studio recordings …") - Yes, he did, but there were almost no other "avenues" available, in his time, lest the concert performances. It took a LONG time for the Japanese arm, of the WF Society, to put-together a Bayreuth/Beethoven 9th, that was entirely, from his performances (and not, as in the Legge production, an amalgam of rehearsals, performances, etc.).


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## 89Koechel

Well, for what it's worth … and considering the best of WF … I still have positive responses to another "old master" - Szell, and his Cleveland O., in the same.


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## 89Koechel

One more opinion, about the usually-"exalted" ones, about WF/Furtwangler … in the Schubert 9th, of the 1942 performance, and this will change my, earlier one …. WF reduces the final movement (in certain ways) to a RACE to the final chords. This seems to be a way to trivialize his entire performance, whether he MEANT it to be, or not. Well, if "ccar" has a better WF performance of the 9th, then maybe it's the 1951/studio one. At this point, maybe WF was NOT the greatest interpreter, of this most-remarkable work … and maybe it's breadth and greatness has eluded many conductors, of the past … well, maybe excepting Mr. Szell … and whoever (Toscanini?) else that one could name.


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## Brahmsianhorn

It’s funny you mention this because it is precisely in the final movement where I think Furtwängler really nailed it in the 1953 BPO version.


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