# The octatonic scale in Le Sacre du Printemps



## Ztirual (Nov 29, 2014)

Hey classical people. 
Im new to this forum, and to classical music in general. Im from Denmark, and for the moment im doing a paper on Le Sacre, where I, among other things, talk about the use of the octatonic ore WHWH /HWHW scale. My only problem is that i just cant find a good example on the use of this scale in Le Sacre. (probably because im not so good at scale-work and such..) Can anyone help me to find a specific place in Le Sacre where the scale is used?


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Ztirual said:


> Hey classical people.
> Im new to this forum, and to classical music in general. Im from Denmark, and for the moment im doing a paper on Le Sacre, where I, among other things, talk about the use of the octatonic ore WHWH /HWHW scale. My only problem is that i just cant find a good example on the use of this scale in Le Sacre. (probably because im not so good at scale-work and such..) Can anyone help me to find a specific place in Le Sacre where the scale is used?


Ztirual, welcome.

If you want a solid, musically-informed response to your question, might I suggest sending a personal e-mail to 'Woodduck' or to 'Mahlerian'-- as they live for this sort of stuff.

I know that they're capable of giving you a sustained response to your question, and would delight in so doing.

Happy hunting.

_;D_


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## Ztirual (Nov 29, 2014)

Thank you Marschallin!

oh.. apparently im not previliged to write private messages .. or even looking at my own profil before posting at least 10 times ..


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Which octatonic scale? There's all sorts of modal and whole tone aplenty in rite. Open the score and get stuck in!


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## Ztirual (Nov 29, 2014)

Actually im also looking for the use of whole-tone scales. But im not sure which octatonic scale im looking for. Some refer to it as Whole-half (or the other way around), or symmetric diminished scale. but my music-skills are not that good, so i cant find a good example of either whole-tone scales or any octatonic. I've fould plenty of cromatic once though. I really just need help to find a specific example of the use.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I can't think of any whole-half moments right away but there's a striking whole tone passage starting after reh fig 175 in part 2 this score: http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring_(Stravinsky,_Igor)


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## Ztirual (Nov 29, 2014)

I found it! Thank you very much Dgee.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I can't think of any really obvious octatonic scale (known in Jazz as the diminished scale, I believe?) moments off the top of my head in The Rite based on the sound alone, while Les Noces is full of them. I do remember the work's harmony being characterized as a conflict between various symmetrical collections, including the octatonic scale, and diatonic collections, but you'd probably have to go to a specialist study for details.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help here!


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## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)

Ztirual said:


> Hey classical people.
> Im new to this forum, and to classical music in general. Im from Denmark, and for the moment im doing a paper on Le Sacre, where I, among other things, talk about the use of the octatonic ore WHWH /HWHW scale. My only problem is that i just cant find a good example on the use of this scale in Le Sacre. (probably because im not so good at scale-work and such..) Can anyone help me to find a specific place in Le Sacre where the scale is used?


Bars 153 through 157, rehearsal #23.

Bars 208 through 215, rehearsal #30, excluding the low string ostinati.

There is not a whole lot. Your teacher may subscribe to the old theory that Le Sacre was written using the octatonic as proposed by Authur Berger in the 60's, but that theory has been disputed quite convincingly over the last few decades. The primary scale used was the fourth mode of the melodic minor scale (another scale used by Stravinsky's influences...Debussy and Scriabin). Berger was confused on many instances because the MM scale has several W-H steps in a row and also has several whole steps in a row so if you just use that one part of the scale alone, it looks like (an incomplete) octatonic or whole tone accordingly.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Torkelburger said:


> The primary scale used was the fourth mode of the melodic minor scale.


Wonderful scale it is, some call it the 'Acoustic scale'. It's just the Lydian mode with a flattened seventh borrowed from the Mixolydian which makes it sound more 'modal'. Great variety of colourful modes can be naturally derived from similar procedures, many of them can serve as transitional forms between diatonic and other collections.


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## Ztirual (Nov 29, 2014)

Thank you Torkelburger!


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