# A question concerning Philips records and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra



## Pmartel63 (Dec 9, 2020)

So I see with sadness that Philips Classics is no more

Curious as to when yhe last Concertgebow recording was done with them and what it was so I can find it

I see now the Concertgebow has it's own label RCO Live.

What was the first CD they released so I can get that and curious as to how it sounds


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Well, it isn't like Philips got replaced by RCO Live overnight, so I guess a sound comparison is pointless. Philips as a recording label had ceased to exist long before, since it got absorbed by Polygram and later by Decca Group. Old Philips recordings have been rebranded as Decca since then, the name doesn't even exist anymore.
RCO Live started in 2004, earliest release I could find is a DVD of Puccini's Trittico, followed by an SACD with Dvorak 9, conducted by Janssons.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Philips used to be one of my favorite labels when I first began collecting LP recordings back in the 1980s. The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra was also one of my favorite orchestras(& still is), though the orchestra wasn’t called the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra back then, but just the Concertgebouw Orchestra (of Amsterdam).

If memory serves, the relationship between the Dutch Philips label and the Concertgebouw Orchestra began in the 1950s, first with conductor Eduard van Beinum, who had previously recorded for Decca during his tenure; followed by the Philips recordings of Paul van Kempen in the 1950s, who like Beinum is an underrated conductor today, IMO; as well as the Philips recordings by Eugen Jochum in the 1950s & 60s. Previously, the orchestra had made some wonderful recordings on Decca, Telefunken, Mercury, & Columbia, with conductors Willem Mengelberg, Erich Kleiber, & the previously mentioned Beinum (though Philips would later reissue some of the recordings by these conductors, such as Mengelberg’s 1939/40 Beethoven Symphonies 1-9 cycle in 1960, etc.).

I. Among the highlights of what I’ll call the first Philips/Concertgebouw period in the 1950s & 60s, I’d include the following LP recordings:

—Beethoven Symphony No. 2, conducted by Beinum in 1954. This is an excellent Beethoven 2nd, but the mono sound isn't ideal. I prefer Beinum’s Philharmonia 2nd for the BBC, which has better sound, & is interpretatively one of the great Beethoven 2nds on record, IMO; along with Kubelik’s two recordings, and Harnoncourt’s 2nd with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. Like those conductors, Beinum thoroughly understands that this symphony starts out as a troubled work—having been composed during the time of the Heiligenstadt Testament in 1802 when Beethoven contemplated suicide due to his increasing deafness—but then it has a surprisingly positive resolution.

—Beethoven Violin Concerto—with violinist Arthur Grumiaux, & Beinum in 1957, a classic recording:






—Brahms Violin Concerto—with violinist Arthur Grumiaux & Beinum in 1958, another classic recording.

—A series of Debussy orchestral recordings from Beinum.

—Brahms Symphonies 1-4 cycle, from Beinum.

—Beethoven Symphony 1-9 cycle with Overtures, conducted by Eugen Jochum. Overall, I prefer Jochum’s later Beethoven cycle with the London Symphony Orchestra on EMI, with one exception being Jochum’s Concertgebouw 6th, which I consider to be a stand out performance in the cycle:






In addition, on the back cover of the old Philips LPs, there was a remarkably perceptive & insightful essay that Jochum wrote about Beethoven “the man”, which I’ve treasured for many years. However, for some reason, it’s never been reprinted in the non-Philips CD reissues. So, if anyone’s interested, I can post this wonderful Philips/Jochum essay here if you wish. You need only ask…

—Beethoven Missa Solemnis, conducted by Jochum:






—Bruckner Symphony No. 5, conducted by Jochum in 1964:






https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-No-5/dp/B000051YD8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=RU0F5WIQPO03&keywords=jochum+concertgebouw+bruckner+5&qid=1667934738&s=music&sprefix=jochum+concertgebouw+bruckner+5,classical,114&sr=1-4
Btw, this legendary Bruckner 5th is additionally available on a Tower Records import Hybrid SACD (limited edition): Eugen Jochum Bruckner Symphony No.5 Organ Musics SACD Hybrid TOWER RECORDS JAPAN 4988031313787 | eBay, as well as a more recent Esoteric Hybrid SACD,
if anyone's interested in paying extra $$$ for better sound: ESOTERIC SACD ESSD-90265 BRUCKNER Symphony No.5 4907034224548 | eBay

There’s also a later live Bruckner 5th from Jochum & the Concertgebouw in the 1986 that is highly regarded, but much slower; however, it wasn’t released by Philips, but rather Tahra:






—A series of Tchaikovsky recordings from Kempen (whose great Beethoven ‘Eroica’ & 7th & Piano Concerto cycle 1-5 with Wilhelm Kempff were made in Berlin, not Amsterdam),

—A series of Philips recordings that George Szell made with the orchestra in the 1960s, including a very fine Beethoven 5th & Sibelius 2nd, which I like because they show that Szell could be a less stiff conductor when he got out of Cleveland:

Beethoven - Symphony No.5 + Presentation (reference recording : George Szell / Concertgebouw)

II. Then came the Bernard Haitink Philips era, which recording-wise began in the 1960s. Interestingly, with the sudden death of Beinum in 1959, Eugen Jochum was brought in to mentor the young Haitink, in order to get him ready to lead the orchestra. There are indeed similarities between the two conductor’s styles. While Haitink wasn’t known to always give the most exciting performances in the catalogue, he was a conductor that paid scrupulous attention to the score, and could always be relied upon to give a well judged musical performance. But, contrary to what is sometimes said about him, Haitink did give some exciting & insightful performances in the early decades of his Concertgebouw tenure in the 1960s & 70s, & especially in the music of Mahler, Bruckner, R. Strauss, Tchaikovsky, & Beethoven.

Among the highlights of the Haitink Concertgebouw/Philips years, I’d include the following representative recordings,

—Beethoven Piano Concertos nos. 1-5, with pianist Claudio Arrau, which remains one of my most favorite cycles on record (along with Serkin/Kubelik, Kempff/Kempen, Brendel/Haitink, Lubin/Hogwood, and an incomplete live cycle from Michelangeli/Giulini in Vienna):

Beethoven - 5th Piano Concerto 'Emperor' (Arrau - Haitink) - HD
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 4 en sol majeur, Op. 58 - Claudio Arrau - Chef Bernard Haitink - HD
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 1 - Claudio Arrau - Bernard Haitink - Concertgebouw Orchestra 1964

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concertos-Nos-Emperor/dp/B00004Z19X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3K5ISOPIGN16C&keywords=beethoven+piano+concerto+5+Claudio+Arrau&qid=1667935681&s=music&sprefix=beethoven+piano+concerto+5+claudio+arrau,popular,102&sr=1-3

—Haydn Symphonies Nos. 96 & 99, which deservedly won a rosette award from the old Penguin Guide: Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam / Joseph Haydn Symphony No.99 From LP

—Tchaikovsky—the 1812 Overture, Francesca di Rimini, Romeo & Juliet, & other shorter orchestral works, which Haitink excelled at: 1812 Overture - Tchaikovsky. Bernard Haitink conducting Concertgebouw Orchestra. 1973.

—Beethoven Symphony No. 5, which was part of Haitink’s Concertgebouw Beethoven 1-9 studio cycle for Philips in the 1980s. For me, Haitink’s 5th was the highlight of the cycle, and I’d count it as one of the finest 5ths on record; indeed I consider it to be more insightful than Carlos Kleiber’s much lauded (& IMO, overrated) 5th on DG: BEETHOVEN: Symphony No. 5 in C minor op. 67 / Haitink ·Concertgebouw Orchestra

—Beethoven Symphony No. 9—this is a live performance from the Concertgebouw in 1980, which isn’t the same as the studio version in Haitink’s later Philips cycle (which has a very good 9th, too). Apart from soprano Janet Price not having one of her best days, this is, IMO, one of the great Beethoven 9ths on record (alongside Herbert Blomstedt’s two 9ths in Dresden, Jochum & the LSO, Wilhelm Furtwangler’s actual Bayreuth performance on Orfeo & not the dress rehearsal on EMI, Ferenc Fricsay on DG with the Berlin Philhrmonic, Gardiner on period instruments, & maybe Reiner in Chicago):









Beethoven Sym No. 9-4. Concertgebouw, Haitink. Live PCM, 1980







www.youtube.com





—Mahler Symphonies 1-9 cycle & Song cycles, including an excellent Das Lied Von Der Erde (or “The Song of the Earth”) with Janet Baker & James King. Btw, this cycle has been newly remastered & now sounds fantastic. IMO, it’s one of the better Mahler cycles on record, and I admit to underrating it in the past: https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Cycles-Blu-ray-Audio/dp/B07KLPTXDR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19OY86GAA81QT&keywords=mahler+haitink&qid=1667930805&s=music&sprefix=Haitink+mahler,classical,101&sr=1-1

—Haitink’s incomplete live Mahler cycle, which is comprised of Symphonies no. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9 & two song cycles that were recorded live from a series of Christmas matinee concerts given at the Concertgebouw. These live Mahler performances are superb, and many collectors consider them to show Haitink’s Mahler at its very best: https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Christmas-Bernard-Haitink/dp/B01HV9BD8A/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19OY86GAA81QT&keywords=mahler+haitink&qid=1667930805&s=music&sprefix=Haitink+mahler,classical,101&sr=1-4

—Bruckner Symphony 1-9 cycle, with an outstanding 7th. There were also later digital era recordings of Bruckner’s 8th & 9th for Philips that are excellent, as well; along with an incomplete Bruckner cycle with the Vienna Philharmonic, which gets underrated, IMO, especially the Vienna 4th & 8th (which was a Haitink specialty). Like his Mahler cycle, Haitink’s Bruckner cycle has been newly remastered: https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphonies-Blu-ray-Audio-Combo/dp/B07KM3HD6F/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1RHQ2O0GDIYRN&keywords=bruckner+haitink&qid=1668006912&sprefix=bruckner+h,aps,136&sr=8-5. (I also like a later Bruckner 8th from Haitink on hybrid SACD from the RCO live label.) However, with that said, I additionally enjoy the Bruckner recordings by conductors Jochum, Blomstedt, Furtwangler, Giulini, Wand, Masur, Karajan, Kabasta, Boehm, Zweden & Celibidache—each for different reasons, & I’m not quite sure where I’d rank Haitink & the Concertgebouw on this list of favorites.

—Debussy La Mer, & Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. These are excellent recordings, however, I find Haitink to be overrated in Jeux, Images pour orchestre, and Trois Nocturnes, where I prefer Boulez on DG (or Tilson Thomas & the LSO), Monteux & the LSO (or Previn), & Dutoit (or Stokowski), respectively.

—Schubert Symphonies Nos. 5 & 8, as well as No. 9.

—Brahms Symphonies 1-4, etc., along with the Brahms Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 with Claudio Arrau. IMO, Haitink’s Brahms is full of special insights.

—Richard Strauss—Also Sprake Zarathustra—here is a conductor that appears to have actually read Nietzsche’s book; indeed Haitink & the Concertgebouw give one of the great performances of this work on record, IMO; along with an excellent Ein Heldenleben, Eine Alpensinfonie, & Tod und Verklärung (although I like Rudolf Kempe & Herbert Blomstedt in Strauss, as well, both with the Staatskapelle Dresden: an orchestra that premiered many of Strauss's works & enjoyed a close working relationship with the composer that lasted nearly five decades):









VINYL HQ RICHARD STRAUß also sprach Zarathustra HAITINK SIDE 1 1979 KORVET 038S "Klingon" table CCCP


Turntable: 1979 KORVET 038S (CCCP)Cartridge: 1979 GZM128 nude paroc diamond berryllium cantilever (CCCP)Phonostage: 1978 MCCurdy AT235/236 broadcast type (Ca...




www.youtube.com













RICHARD STRAUSS: Tod und Verklärung - BERNARD HAITINK/Concertgebouworkest, Amsterdam


RICHARD STRAUSS (1864-1949)"Tod und Verklärung, Op. 24 (1889)(Death & Transfiguration)Royal Concertgebouw OrchestraBERNARD HAITINK, conductorRec. 1981, Amste...




www.youtube.com





—Stravinsky, the 3 famous ballets. These are very good performances, but ultimately I prefer the Stravinsky recordings by the composer, Markevitch, Bour, Craft, Boulez, Dutoit, Dorati, Abbado, & Chailly.

—Wagner, Overture & Preludes—again, these are excellent performances, however, I prefer Hans Knappertsbusch, Rafael Kubelik, Rudolf Kempe, & Eugen Jochum in this music.

—Shostakovich Symphony 1-15 cycle—the later stages of Haitink’s pioneering Shostakovich cycle were recorded with the Concertgebouw, while the earlier recordings were made during his tenure with the London Philharmonic; however, the whole cycle was released on London/Decca, not Philips.

III. During the Haitink years, the Concertgebouw Orchestra also made many notable recordings for Philips with various guest conductors. For me, some of the highlights would include the following LP recordings,

—Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique, conducted by Sir Colin Davis: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique (Davis / Royal Concertgebouw)

—Haydn, London Symphonies, etc., an excellent series conducted by Sir Colin Davis:









Haydn: Symphony in G, H.I No. 94 - "Surprise" - 2. Andante


Provided to YouTube by Universal Music GroupHaydn: Symphony in G, H.I No. 94 - "Surprise" - 2. Andante · Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra · Sir Colin DavisHaydn...




www.youtube.com





Haydn, Symphony No 88, Colin Davis

—Stravinsky, the 3 famous ballets, conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

—Dvorak, Symphonies nos. 7, 8, & 9, conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

—Berg, Violin Concerto—played by Gidon Kremer, & 3 Orchestral Pieces, Sir Colin Davis: Alban Berg - concerto à la mémoire d'un ange - Guidon Kremer - Colin Davis

—Beethoven Violin Concerto—played by Arthur Grumiaux, conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

—Beethoven Symphony No. 2, conducted by Rafael Kubelik, which was part of Kubelik’s Beethoven Symphony 1-9 cycle from 1976. IMO, this is one of the better Beethoven 2nds on record (along with Harnoncourt & Beinum’s, and Kubelik’s other recording on Audite): BEETHOVEN SYMPHONY # 2 in D major ~ RAFAEL KUBELIK/ Concertgebouw Orchestra. Although it wasn’t released on Philips, but rather DG.

—Rimsky-Korsakov, Scheherazade, conducted by Kirill Kondrashin. This recording received excellent reviews, but it’s not one of my favorite Scheherazades. For me, the Concertgebouw’s 1st violinist Herman Krebbers has too light a violin tone for this music. For example, I prefer the 1st violinist on Ormandy’s recording with the Philadelphia Orchestra to Krebbers. Btw, there is an entire Kondrashin series with the Concertgebouw on Philips.

—Antal Dorati—his Tchaikovsky recordings of The Nutcracker & Sleeping Beauty ballets (though ultimately I prefer the Tchaikovky ballet recordings of Gennady Rozhdestvensky).

—Antal Dorati, his first class Concertgebouw reading of Bela Bartok’s Concerto for Orchestra & Deux Images: Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra, Sz. 116 - 3. Elegia (Andante, non troppo). (Though ultimately I slightly prefer Kubelik in this music.)

—Rachmaninov Symphonies 1-3, Isle of the Dead, & Symphonic Dances, conducted by Vladimir Ashkenazy. These are excellent digital era performances; although ultimately I prefer Eugene Ormandy & the Philadelphia Orchestra’s recordings of the Symphonic Dances, Symphonies 1-3, etc.: Rachmaninoff: The Isle of the Dead, Op. 29.

(I should also mention that conductor Nikolaus Harnoncourt likewise enjoyed a special relationship with the Concertgebouw, but his excellent Mozart & Haydn Symphony recordings with the orchestra were recorded by Teldec, which was Harnoncourt’s long time label.)

Sometime in the late 1980s, the Haitink/Philips era came to an end. The word at the time was that Haitink was told to fire certain long time orchestra members that were no longer playing up to the standard of the rest of orchestra, & he chose instead to step down from his position, being that they were close friends. Which left their dismissals to his predecessor, Riccardo Chailly. With Chailly, the Concertgebouw Orchestra began a new era & the orchestra changed their record label to Decca, which was Chailly’s label.

I’m not exactly sure what the very last Philips/Concertgebouw recording was—perhaps you can find a discography?, but apart from some Philips reissues in the early 1990s, I think it might have been Semyon Bychov’s 1990 recording of Tchaikovsky’s Symphony No. 6 (to answer your question).

After the Haitink/Philips era was over, the Chailly years began at the Concertgebouw & likewise gave us many wonderful recordings—such his Mahler 3rd & 9th, for instance. But I’ll stop here.

In terms of sound quality, the old Philips’ ‘quadrophonic’ recordings tend to transfer very well to a Hybrid SACD format. & you can find a number of these Hybrid SACD recordings in Pentatone’s catalogue: For example: Haydn: Symphony no. 88 - Sir Colin Davis & Concertgebouw Amsterdam. Otherwise, the Philips sound quality from the 1960s to 1980s is excellent, & especially if it gets newly remastered.

P.S. By the way, the following Davis/Haydn set is a screaming bargain at the moment on Amazon, where it’s offered at only $9.25 new: Amazon.com


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## Pmartel63 (Dec 9, 2020)

Hi 

Sorry for the delay in getting badk

Thanks for this, this gives me much to look for

I ahve been out of the loop for CDs for a long time and was so surpised when I saw Philips whem bye bye such a great label 

I just wish we had more used CD stores here in Toronto as that would really help.

I have a life time of music ahaed to look for at 65 years old


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