# Hardest role ever?



## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

So, what's the hardest opera role ever in your opinion? Choose one or few, or maybe choose an another role, sorry if there's not enough of them.
I'll go to Brünnhilde.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

not sure about *the* hardest, but among the hardest I'd add Abigaille and Vitellia. Also Baroque is quite hard from a different point of view than Wagner (less volume, more precision).


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Yeah, some coloraturas are really tough... For example, bel canto and Mozart's high sopranos.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't know many of those roles, having knocked on Wagner's door many times without admittance, so I'm just selecting from the ones I know! Norma. Although deggial has a really good point about different singing styles being difficult in different ways. Perhaps Fiordiligi? I dunno.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I finally went with Tristan, just thinking of the sheer stamina needed to get through the role -- especially that final act.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hard to top Berg's Lulu, onstage and singing through nearly the entire opera, with a helluva part including a three octave range and all the rest. Certainly a greater 'endurance' test vs. any Wagnerian role. 

The 'myth' of the difficulty of Wagnerian roles is much lessened when one really tabulates how much the character is on, how much they have to sing in the overall piece, realize the written singing range (tessitura) for any role is not at all extraordinary, and the fact this enormous orchestra was in a pit which effectively muffled it a great deal... i.e Wagnerian singers do not have to 'sing over' this huge sound mass as it happens in halls other than the Festspielhaus (the problem with writing with such a specialized acoustic environment as a requirement of performance). Hear one recording made there, and realize there is almost no 'battle' for a singer to be readily heard. What is desired is a particular timbre, rare enough, but that does not make a singer that much more formidable or extremely virtuosic or 'stronger' than others, it is just a particular timbre they happen to 'own.'


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

For Wagner, I thought Tannhauser is always considered the most difficult of his tenor roles. Many a Siegfried and Tristan never quite made it to Tannhauser. For endurance, Hans Sachs from Meistersinger is probably the longest and sings a lot more than Wotan would in any single opera. Otello is certainly considered the most or at least one of the most difficult Italian tenor roles.
However, I wonder the reason that many people do not attempt Tannhauser and Otello is not just technical difficulty but because have to have to have the right kind of voice for it which excludes a lot of tenors by default. Isolde probably would fall into the same category. Siegmund is not difficult to sing as such but many a Tristan and Siegfried hate the role because it sits rather low and requires quite a bit of singing right around register break of most tenors.

Difficult roles that are not so picky or demanding on voices would be Fidiorligi from Cosi fan tutte. Lots of people sing the role well enough but not too many people truely own this role.

Some


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I would think that Ariel from The Tempest would be insanely difficult....


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Constanza from Seraglio.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

guythegreg said:


> I don't know many of those roles, having knocked on Wagner's door many times without admittance...


From what I've heard, Mr. Wagner is a pretty hospitable guy who receives everyone who knocks on his door and always has a tasty dinner, a cold lager and a good story in store for the travel-wearied guest. How come he did not let you in?


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> From what I've heard, Mr. Wagner is a pretty hospitable guy who receives everyone who knocks on his door and always has a tasty dinner, a cold lager and a good story in store for the travel-wearied guest. How come he did not let you in?


...but what do you think to be the hardest role?


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> From what I've heard, Mr. Wagner is a pretty hospitable guy who receives everyone who knocks on his door and always has a tasty dinner, a cold lager and a good story in store for the travel-wearied guest. How come he did not let you in?


The problem is that he always insists that his visitors stay until the following dawn :lol:


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

To focus exclusively on the range and stamina demands of an opera role is to lose sight of at least half of what makes an opera role difficult. Oh, I won't dispute that the musical demands are paramount-- but every role carries at least three costs. There's a _musical_ cost [range, stamina, etc.], an _acting_ cost [which I'll break down into objective and subjective components], and a _diction_ cost. An example of a role with a high diction cost is Florestan in Fidelio. I've heard _heldentenoren_ say that they find it easier to deal with Wagner roles than Florestan, due to the high diction cost. In the acting sphere, I'm sure we can agree that there are things that are just objectively difficult... but then there are aspects of acting where the barriers come from within. For example, lots of heroic tenors find Siegfried an uncongenial role. Now, independent of whether or not we agree with their perception of Siegfried, the fact is that for such singers, Siegfried assesses a high subjective acting cost.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Zabirilog said:


> ...but what do you think to be the hardest role?


I'll go with Isolde, for the range and power of emotions she has to express through her singing.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

I think I should say Wotan because of the sheer immensity of the role.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Logos said:


> I think I should say Wotan because of the sheer immensity of the role.


Yes, it is a quite absurd idea to its singers, that you're playing a god


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## Celloissimo (Mar 29, 2013)

E.T.A Hoffman from Offenbach's "Tales of Hoffman". Not only is the title role extremely difficult, he is in every single scene in every act.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

What about the only soloist in Xenakis' _Oresteïa_, a baritone who had to sing dialogs between different characters including using falsetto to sing several female roles.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> [E]very role carries at least three costs. There's a _musical_ cost [range, stamina, etc.], an _acting_ cost [...], and a _diction_ cost.


You make several good points here. With the acting cost in mind, I vote for the title role of _Tannhäuser_. Not only is Heinrich an extremely difficult role to sing, but he has to convincingly do a number of _spectacularly_ dumb things, starting with saying "you know, having infinite orgies here in Venusburg is great and all, but you know what's better? Bells."

All kidding aside, I imagine atonal and polytonal works in general are very difficult to sing, with all the chromaticisim and weird intervals. Both roles of _Bluebeard's Castle_ deserves special mention: it's largely polytonal, you're on stage the whole time and it's in Hungarian. At least it's not very long.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

ahammel said:


> All kidding aside, I imagine atonal and polytonal works in general are very difficult to sing, with all the chromaticisim and weird intervals. Both roles of _Bluebeard's Castle_ deserves special mention: it's largely polytonal, you're on stage the whole time and it's in Hungarian. At least it's not very long.


From what I've heard, with 12-tone works, it helps singers to know the tone row itself, so they know generally what intervals follow what others. Then they just have to learn their role the way they would any other. As I mentioned earlier on the Current Listening thread, Aron in _Moses und Aron_ is a very tricky role, because the singer has to have a light, nimble voice, used often at the top of its range, and has to make it sound lyrical in order to off-set the gruff sprechstimme of Moses.


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## AndyS (Dec 2, 2011)

I haven't heard the opera but aren't the male and female lead roles in Korngold's Die Tote Stadt supposed to be incredibly difficult (the tenor role especially)?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Hard to top Berg's Lulu, onstage and singing through nearly the entire opera, with a helluva part including a three octave range and all the rest. Certainly a greater 'endurance' test vs. any Wagnerian role.


Really? The "entire opera" of Lulu is shorter than a leisurely conducted 1st act of Tristan. During which Isolde is on stage the entire time. And then on stage for another hour and a half for the entirety of the 2nd Act. And then must return at the end of the 3rd act to transcendentally die in "the vast wave of the world's breath".



PetrB said:


> What is desired is a particular timbre, rare enough, but that does not make a singer that much more formidable or extremely virtuosic or 'stronger' than others, it is just a particular timbre they happen to 'own.'


The 'timbre' of a dramatic soprano is actually defined by its strength. You're not a dramatic soprano until after 10-20 years of work, most start out singing lyrical Italian roles.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Really? The "entire opera" of Lulu is shorter than a leisurely conducted 1st act of Tristan. During which Isolde is on stage the entire time. And then on stage for another hour and a half for the entirety of the 2nd Act. And then must return at the end of the 3rd act to transcendentally die in "the vast wave of the world's breath".


Lulu lasts over 3 hours. Now _that_ is a slow Tristan Act I!


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Couchie said:


> The 'timbre' of a dramatic soprano is actually defined by its strength. You're not a dramatic soprano until after 10-20 years of work, most start out singing lyrical Italian roles.


Some voices grow into dramatic repertoire but you need to have a decent starting point. Not every voice will grow into one. it seems that many dramatic soprano starts to sing relatively heavier repertoire right from the beginning. Nilsson's early roles included Freischutz, lady Macbeth, Aida, Tosca, Sieglinde, Venus, Senta. 8 years after her operatic debut, she took on Brunhilde. Astrid Varnay started vocal training at age 18, her met debut was at age 22 or 23 as Sieglinde then 6 days later as Brunhilde in die Walkure.

I don't think that dramatic soprano grows from lyric soprano per se. They all naturally has big voice. They may start in lighter repertory so not to push or stress their voice until they are ready but when you hear them as Mimi, I don't think they will be mistaken as a lyric soprano. Hearing young Eva Marton sang Si mi chiamano Mimi, you know that you are hearing dramatic soprano in making and not a lyric soprano even if she is singing lyric soprano role. Freni and Scotto may push their voices at times and sing lirico-spinto or dramatic soprano role but they are never dramatic soprano and there is no mistaken them for dramatic soprano. Freni's voice is incredibly well focus and her voice can cut through some heavy orchestration but her voice was never big enough to ride through or overpower the orchestra and chorus the way true dramatic soprano can.

I think a good chunk of being dramatic soprano is something you are borned with and not something that you can learn and force yourself into it at least if a singer is planning on having a good long career anyhow.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Mahlerian said:


> Lulu lasts over 3 hours. Now _that_ is a slow Tristan Act I!


Oh **** I was thinking of Wozzeck.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

suteetat said:


> Some voices grow into dramatic repertoire but you need to have a decent starting point. Not every voice will grow into one. it seems that many dramatic soprano starts to sing relatively heavier repertoire right from the beginning. Nilsson's early roles included Freischutz, lady Macbeth, Aida, Tosca, Sieglinde, Venus, Senta. 8 years after her operatic debut, she took on Brunhilde. Astrid Varnay started vocal training at age 18, her met debut was at age 22 or 23 as Sieglinde then 6 days later as Brunhilde in die Walkure.
> 
> I don't think that dramatic soprano grows from lyric soprano per se. They all naturally has big voice. They may start in lighter repertory so not to push or stress their voice until they are ready but when you hear them as Mimi, I don't think they will be mistaken as a lyric soprano. Hearing young Eva Marton sang Si mi chiamano Mimi, you know that you are hearing dramatic soprano in making and not a lyric soprano even if she is singing lyric soprano role. Freni and Scotto may push their voices at times and sing lirico-spinto or dramatic soprano role but they are never dramatic soprano and there is no mistaken them for dramatic soprano. Freni's voice is incredibly well focus and her voice can cut through some heavy orchestration but her voice was never big enough to ride through or overpower the orchestra and chorus the way true dramatic soprano can.
> 
> I think a good chunk of being dramatic soprano is something you are borned with and not something that you can learn and force yourself into it at least if a singer is planning on having a good long career anyhow.


If they are truly "born" we really need on ask ourselves what was with the healthy crop of Wagnerian Sopranos in the first half of the 20th century and the relative void these days. The gene pool dried up?


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

What does one consider hard? Stamina or coloratura? For Callas, Norma was harder than Isolde.

Also, one can find here and there a wagnerian voice. But the voices from _opera seria_ have long disappeared and all we have today is but a glimpse of what they were.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Couchie said:


> If they are truly "born" we really need on ask ourselves what was with the healthy crop of Wagnerian Sopranos in the first half of the 20th century and the relative void these days. The gene pool dried up?


They are probably around but never discovered opera nor discovered that they have talent for singing. Career in opera singing is probably not on top of the list of most people now a day. They may be more interested in other things rather than classical music or opera. They may even know that they can sing but they just don't care about opera as they have other choices. 
May be they would become a great dramatic soprano if they are willing to be a 200 lbs lady but since they want to be size 0 supermodel when they are 12 years old, their natural talent just never had a chance to shine. May be they only know hip hop so they never developed their operatic voice, may be they want to be CEO, doctors, lawyers, presidents, a lot more career option now  etc, etc.....

Personally I don't really know the answer but I think the gene pool is there but we are now distracted by other things in life which robs us of some potentially great artists. At least this is a bit more optimistic way of lookig at things than gene pool dry off or no great teacheres around to teach people to sing anymore so opera is doomed


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Oh **** I was thinking of Wozzeck.


This is what happens when people listen to too much of the same composer. They get all their facts muddled up...
Although I know that the lengthy Russian opera "I Pagliacci" by Chopin has a huge part for Sarastro (onstage for nearly the full four and a half hours of extremely repetitive music, lucky the audience can come and go as they please because there is no interval), that dramatic coloratura soprano part, you know what I'm talking about right?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

One horrendously difficult role that's not listed here is Renata in Prokofiev's nightmarish "The Fiery Angel ."
This character is onstage through most of the opera and the role is not only fiendishly difficult to sing in terms of endurance, but the soprano has to emote in an unbelievably intense way as a crazed religious mystic who is obsessed with finding the mysterious and sinister "fiery angel", her imaginary friend from childhood who is supposedly an angel but hwo in reality is a demon who is possessing her !
She has horrific visions of being tormented by demons , and is constantly resisting the advances of the brave knight Ruprecht who is obsessed with her and wants to marry her even though she tolerates him only as a friend to help her in her weird experiments in necromancy . This role has been described as a "voice shredder ".
And th esoprano has to be heard over a raging orchestra too .


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## Ritter (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi everyone. This is the first time I write here, I've just registered. And to break the ice I thought this thread was a good one. Sorry for my English mistakes in advance (I am not English speaker, but I am a great opera lover).

Well, I've voted for "Norma" as I consider this role very hard technically, although the rest of roles listed are very difficult as well, and some characters such as Brünnhilde and Tristan require great voices and much endurance. According to opera singers like Callas or Caballe bel canto roles are more demanding than wagnerian ones, for example. As a member said before, Callas used to say that It was easier for her to sing three times Brunnhilde rather than once Norma. And Caballé stated that the hardest role she had ever sung was Imogene from Il pirata.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Hi Ritter and welcome to the forum

And your English is great!:tiphat:


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## HumphreyAppleby (Apr 11, 2013)

My vote is for Turandot. It requires high Cs that have to be blasted over a massive orchestra and chorus, and the ability to sing tender and delicate Puccinian melody with style and beauty. And the characterization? Talk about difficult.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

HumphreyAppleby said:


> My vote is for Turandot. It requires high Cs that have to be blasted over a massive orchestra and chorus, and the ability to sing tender and delicate Puccinian melody with style and beauty. And the characterization? Talk about difficult.


I used to think the same. However once i read that Nilsson that Minnie was somehow more difficult for her than Turandot. The problem is that in Turandot, the voice is always very high, while for Minnie, the voice comes down to a mezzo level very often. And if for a soprano like Nilsson to say something like this, then it must be pretty difficult.


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## HumphreyAppleby (Apr 11, 2013)

That's a good point, although I think that it depends a bit more on each individual voice with Minnie. Leontyne Price couldn't do it; Dorothy Kirsten filled in for her, and very successfully. Leontyne Price did a lot that Dorothy Kirsten didn't. But I couldn't imagine either of them singing Turandot, at least on stage.


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## Volve (Apr 14, 2013)

Wotan for me would be the hardest role. It sits constantly on higher notes, and let's not forget Wagner intended for a light basso, not a bass-baritone for this role. But what i think makes it the hardest (in my opinion), is the sheer amount of emotions the singer has to go through in order to really own the role. Especially the ending of act 3, my very favorite moment in opera, having heard several different singers on that, only 3 conveyed the feelings that a father would have in that situation.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

how about Arnold in William Tell?
no one wants to sing it.
it must be pretty tough


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh, I forgot leggero tenors...  Who has actually sang 'perfectly' the Arturo high f?


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Couchie said:


> If they are truly "born" we really need on ask ourselves what was with the healthy crop of Wagnerian Sopranos in the first half of the 20th century and the relative void these days. The gene pool dried up?


Me and my wife married too late in our lives.

Sorry.


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## Ritter (Apr 11, 2013)

Itullian said:


> how about Arnold in William Tell?
> no one wants to sing it.
> it must be pretty tough


Of course, it is! Kraus never sang Arnold at a theater, and it was a role for him, and Pavarotti either. They considered Arnold one of the most challenging roles. I don't know why but I only thought of female roles when I read this thread.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Zabirilog said:


> Oh, I forgot leggero tenors...  Who has actually sang 'perfectly' the Arturo high f?


The ones that did it in falsettone, I imagine.


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## HumphreyAppleby (Apr 11, 2013)

Even Gedda only sang it live once... that means it has gotta be hard.


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## Kari (May 13, 2012)

I chose Cherubini's Medea (or Médée if you like). It's a great work, but no-one since Callas has really pulled it off and there is no decent modern recording of it. I have lost count of how many Rings there are on DVD alone... Antonacci didn't fill the gap for me.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I'd add Calaf and Turandot, both real killers, Hans Sachs and Gurnemanz, because they're extremely long (and then Wagner adds a final aria for poor Sachs while sporting a trollface). Also Ariadne from The Minotaur sounds like it's extremely hard to sing.

And then there are roles that are very demanding psychologically, like Lady Macbeth, Boris or Peter Grimes.

Wotan too, the sheer length and the emotional whiplash makkes it really hard.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Kind of a slanted poll, as 2/3 of the named roles are Wagnerian. How's about 1/4 Wagner, 1/4 Mozart, 1/4 Puccini, 1/4 Verdi, these 4 being the most significant composers?


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

SiegendesLicht said:


> From what I've heard, Mr. Wagner is a pretty hospitable guy who receives everyone who knocks on his door and always has a tasty dinner, a cold lager and a good story in store for the travel-wearied guest. How come he did not let you in?


Maybe this teeny problem about ethnic background?


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

katdad said:


> Kind of a slanted poll, as 2/3 of the named roles are Wagnerian. How's about 1/4 Wagner, 1/4 Mozart, 1/4 Puccini, 1/4 Verdi, these 4 being the most significant composers?


Sorry for my Wagnerity... Maybe this should not be a poll at all. Much easier without it.


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## msegers (Oct 17, 2008)

superhorn said:


> One horrendously difficult role that's not listed here is Renata in Prokofiev's nightmarish "The Fiery Angel ."
> This character is onstage through most of the opera and the role is not only fiendishly difficult to sing in terms of endurance, but the soprano has to emote in an unbelievably intense way as a crazed religious mystic who is obsessed with finding the mysterious and sinister "fiery angel", her imaginary friend from childhood who is supposedly an angel but hwo in reality is a demon who is possessing her !
> She has horrific visions of being tormented by demons , and is constantly resisting the advances of the brave knight Ruprecht who is obsessed with her and wants to marry her even though she tolerates him only as a friend to help her in her weird experiments in necromancy . This role has been described as a "voice shredder ".
> And the soprano has to be heard over a raging orchestra too .


I just recently discovered this opera. I don't know enough about music to comment on the vocal demands except that she has to deal with a lot of orchestra. But I can recognize what intense dramatic/emotional demands the role makes. It's an opera that I wish were better known, but I can image that it would scare off a company thinking about producing it. Here is about the first half of the DVD I have:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I have no real idea not being a singer, but I voted Siegfried as the role is inordinately long and demanding, much of it with heavy declaratory singing above a huge orchestra. Then in the third act he has to match, yell for yell, a dramatic soprano who has up to that time not sung a note that evening.
I think Wagner, in writing music for a super-youth, forgot that singers are not themselves super-heroes! No wonder many reviews of the opera's singer end with 'he tired towards the end'


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

I voted for Tristan, but also would offer Paul in _Die Tote Stadt_ as very difficult. Paul is continuously on stage singing in a high register what seems to be a strenuous Heldentenor role.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Hoffmann said:


> I voted for Tristan, but also would offer Paul in _Die Tote Stadt_ as very difficult. Paul is continuously on stage singing in a high register what seems to be a strenuous Heldentenor role.


That's Ok because we have Klaus Florian Vogt and he can nail it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Paul is a complex, but fascinating challenge. In Korngold's score we can find fragments that look ideal for a Heldentenor, but others for a lyric tenor, for a spinto,... even for a 'tenore di grazia' like two b-flat 3 that must be sung in piano with a fermata. 

While some quite extensive lyrical singing is required, with many marks of piano and diminuendo, with legato,... there is also at times at quite dense orchestration, though masterly managed by Korngold to help the singer, and not drown his voice.

And, as mentioned above, is a very long role. Korngold was inspired to write Paul's vocality by a performance of Richard Tauber singing Fritz, from Schreker's _Der Ferne Klang_.

Personally, I agree with other members that find Vogt the best fit today for the role.


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## TrevBus (Jun 6, 2013)

Couchie said:


> Oh **** I was thinking of Wozzeck.


There is my Vote. WOZZECK. Dislike the opera but recognized the difficulty in it.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

TrevBus said:


> There is my Vote. WOZZECK. Dislike the opera but recognized the difficulty in it.


Lulu is a harder role, I think. It's a real...bear to deal with, both in terms of range and sheer amount of singing involved.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Not being well acquainted with the Wagner heroes and heroines in the poll, I voted for Norma. I've heard NORMA twice in the opera house, and the title role just seems like the hardest of the "true" bel canto (Rossini, Donizetti, Bellini) roles. Not every soprano who sings bel canto can sing Norma. Rather than a coloratura soprano, a Norma almost needs to be a spinto -- yet she needs extraordinary control to spin out the long, long lines of "Casta Diva" and great flexibility for the coloratura passages. She needs a strong chest register for "In mia man." _And_ she needs to be able to rise to full tragic stature in Act II of the opera.


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

judging by the lack of a decent one...maybe Siegfried. Wondering when the last decent siegfried was. Not seen one on DVD for a while!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The 'timbre' of a dramatic soprano is actually defined by its strength. You're not a dramatic soprano until after 10-20 years of work, most start out singing lyrical Italian roles.[/QUOTE] Not always correct. Astrid Varnay made her stage debut at the Met in Sieglinde at age 23 just after being hired by the company and blew audience and critics away. Out of the gate she was a dramatic soprano. Same goes for Rosa Ponselle who debuted at the Met in Forza at 21. One must also say they were both freaks of nature!


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

Yes, they used to say that a tenor should not be doing Canio or Otello until they had been doing roles for about 20 years. I guess for many singers these days they cannot wait that long -careers seem to be much shorter. Or maybe we have become less tolerant of a 'wobble' -both in voice and body(!!) that comes after 20-30 years singing.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

I think Siegfried is the most difficult role for any man. Lulu is the same minefield for women.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

Not being an opera singer I'm not really that familiar with the 'difficulty' aspect of many roles, but I have heard postulated many roles as being 'the most difficult role' for its fach. For baritone, I've heard this both about Don Giovanni and Riggoletto in particular. How true is it? I don't know. I think its kind of something publicists come up with to promote a new pruduction/rising star. Look at the music in don giovanni for instance. La ci darem la mano, is still quite singable even for someone with no operatic experience, its up to the baritone to _make_ it sound _operatic_. And the champaign aria, although very fast, its really quite short. I think the difficulty in that aria is to make it perfect; to cram as much emotion into a fast song as possible, because you won't get a second chance later (before it ends). Is that really any more difficult than a verdi role? My own gut instinct tells me that Leporello's catalogue aria, is more encompassing, incorporationg a variety of emotion and skill, probably far more difficult than any one aria Don Giovanni sings. Does Don Giovanni's other arias and ensembles make up for it? 
The Queen of the Night is another role often postulated as one of the most difficult soprano roles. Sure its high, but for a true colouratura is that really going to be all that hard? Plus she only sings 2 arias plus a quintett.

If I had to, I'd go with Osmin. Its the only role I'm familiar with that no modern basses can quite seem to do justice. What you would want, if we were in a perfect world, is for Osmin to sing that low d with as much brillance and resonance that coloraturas sing those high c's and beyond. True basso profundos are very rare indeed however. As for the other roles mentioned, its certainly Wagner heavy so I'll have to listen to more wagner before I cast my final vote.


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## LFTBR (Aug 2, 2013)

I voted other: Gepopo from Ligeti's Grand Macabre has to be one of the most vicious roles ever created.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I think Siegfried.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Never having sung any of these roles - or any other roles, except that of poorly paid provincial church soloist - I'll just have to take the word of Lilli Lehmann and Maria Callas, who said that Norma is harder than Wagner. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Tristan may be the toughest role if it's done musical and dramatic justice, which has probably never actually happened.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I think Lucia is the most challenging for a soprano.
After all the she-bang of aria's and duets she to has to be in top form, to deliver her greatest aria in her last appearance.
Mind you, a tour de force_ an sigh_ :tiphat:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Other: Armida.

Although Norma is possibly the hardest on the list. I would also second the choice of Ariel in Ades' the Tempest.

N.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Why is the role of Osmin on this list ? It has some very low notes, but these are not difficult for any bass worth his salt .


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Probably depends on your definition of "hard". I can imagine bel canto singers singing Wagner not terribly well but still singing the notes, but I can't imagine many Wagnerian singers being able to handle the coloratura in bel canto. But there seem to be more relatively capable bel canto singers in the world than capable Wagnerians, particularly heldentenors, and there are more voices wrecked by singers trying to do Wagner than singers trying to do bel canto.

Hardest roles to really do well would probably be Tristan or Siegfried, in my book, depending on the singer. The true tenorial tenors probably find Tristan harder, with its very long passages demanding power in the lower registers, and the baritonal tenors probably find Siegfried, especially young Siegfried, the hardest. The role I least often expect to hear sung well is Siegfried, with arguably the only really great renditions being by Melchior and Lorenz.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

My vote for women: A toss up between Minnie and Turandot
My vote for men: Otello


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

For women it has to be Norma. Lilli Lehmann, a famous Norma _and_ Brunnhilde, said she would rather sing all three Brunnhildes in one night than Norma. By comparison Turandot and Minnie are easy as long as the singer has a powerful voice. No trills, no tricky fioriture or rapid scales, both tonic and chromatic. Nor are they dramatically anything like as complex as Norma, Mind you these days, most of those who attempt Norma pretty much skate over all the difficulties in the score, so how would anyone know just how difficult it is to sing it properly?

Of males roles, a toss up between Tristan and Otello, with Tristan possibly winning because of its far greater length.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> For women it has to be Norma. Lilli Lehmann, a famous Norma and Brunnhilde, said she would rather sing all three Brunnhildes in one night than Norma. *By comparison Turandot and Minnie are easy as long as the singer has a powerful voice.* No trills, no tricky fioriture or rapid scales, both tonic and chromatic. Nor are they dramatically anything like as complex as Norma, Mind you these days, most of those who attempt Norma pretty much skate over all the difficulties in the score, so how would anyone know just how difficult it is to sing it properly?


Birgit Nilsson called Turandot her "vacation role."

A cruise on the high "C"s does sound like a nice vacation.


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