# Violin Concerto - 3rd movement



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Currently incomplete - would love a little feedback

View attachment Violin Concerto - 3rd movement.pdf


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https://soundcloud.com/m-burroughs%2Fviolin-concerto-3rd-movement


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## HeavyGroovist (Oct 23, 2016)

Well, one thing I can say for sure is that the audio is clipping.
Other than that, I feel like there's no resolve to any of the themes that pass by, but that might be a conscious choice. It's just not my thing.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

While there are a number of scoring concerns, I will only address two right now:

On page 1, the winds and brass need to be listed out the exact same way and that way should be:

*2 Flutes
2 Oboes
2 Clarinets in A
2 Bassoons

? Horns in F
2 Trumpets in C*

Now about that *? Horns*. After studying the entire score I only see one part. So, is it just 1 Horn in F or is it 2 Horns in F and the poor second hornist is just going to dwindle their thumbs?

Next, the Timpani is just all wrong. Starting with the fact that the lowest note on the largest head/kettle is D and you've used a ton of low C#s. Then the other higher pitches you used are all too low to played on the higher pitched sized heads/kettles. But I can't point out specifics regarding those because until the out of range low C# is dealt with it would be futile for me to try.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bit of a shock to the system to be frank , sounds very heavy.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Bit of a shock to the system to be frank , sounds very heavy.


And that ain't a bad comment either, it's a compliment.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

I was very pleasantly surprised by the tonality of this piece with it's lovely dissonances. Very good!!! 

I'm not sure of your conception for this Concerto but that movement does sound like it needs more expanding. There is more awesome places you can go with that 3rd movement


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Vasks said:


> While there are a number of scoring concerns, I will only address two right now:
> 
> On page 1, the winds and brass need to be listed out the exact same way and that way should be:
> 
> ...


Ah, it is two horns, currently I just have them playing together (should this be specified in the score?). The piece is not finished yet though.

I was unaware of how to score for timpani so I'll have another look at that xP I've not had any composition lessons so am not really sure on how to score correctly for it :')

But thanks for the feedback


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ST4 said:


> I was very pleasantly surprised by the tonality of this piece with it's lovely dissonances. Very good!!!
> 
> I'm not sure of your conception for this Concerto but that movement does sound like it needs more expanding. There is more awesome places you can go with that 3rd movement


Ah thanks a lot 

Yeah, it is not complete at the moment, still a work in progress


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

changed timpani part and instrumental names. any better?
View attachment Violin Concerto - 3rd movement 2 (4).pdf


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> changed timpani part and instrumental names. any better?


With regards to the Timpani, sadly no.

Let's look at the first 9 measures where the timpani plays non-stop. You have 4 different pitches low *E*, low *F#*, low *G#* and low *A*. The lowest timpani head/kettle can only play ONE note from the notes that are found between low *D* up to *A*. Which ONE note should it be? Normally that would be your lowest note here *E*.

The next highest head/kettle can play ONE note from the notes that are found between low *F* up to *C*. Normally that would mean it would play the *F#*.

Now here's your problem. The next highest head/kettle can only play ONE note and it must be between *B-flat* and high *F*. But that means it can't play either your low *G#* nor your low *A*. And of course since the smallest/highest sounding head/kettle can't play any of your low notes, I need not go any further.

Two more observations: (1) Almost never do you give the timpani a key signature. It is very rare to see one. Accidentals are used normally. (2) The term "attacca" is used to tell players/conductors to immediately go from one movement/section into the next without a pause. You should use either a different term or just use accent markings.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Vasks said:


> With regards to the Timpani, sadly no.
> 
> Let's look at the first 9 measures where the timpani plays non-stop. You have 4 different pitches low *E*, low *F#*, low *G#* and low *A*. The lowest timpani head/kettle can only play ONE note from the notes that are found between low *D* up to *A*. Which ONE note should it be? Normally that would be your lowest note here *E*.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, hopefully i have it sorted now. I'll upload the score sometimes soon.
Unfortunately the software I use does not allow seperate key signatures to be allocated to different instruments though.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Just thought I'd show what I have of all three movements so far. Please bare in mind I'm only 17 and have never had composition lessons so please don't expect a masterpiece. I am sure there are many errors.  Feedback would be great and hopefully the timpani parts are a little nicer now? 


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https://soundcloud.com/m-burroughs%2Fviolin-concerto-1st-movement

View attachment Violin Concerto - 1st movement 2 (1).pdf


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https://soundcloud.com/m-burroughs%2Fviolin-concerto-2nd-movement

View attachment Violin Concerto - 2nd movement 2.pdf


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https://soundcloud.com/m-burroughs%2Fviolin-concerto-3rd-movement-1

View attachment Violin Concerto - 3rd movement 2 (5).pdf


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

So - I'm going to try and finish the first movement first - would make sense after all 

It will be in sonata form although a little different from general so maybe a "free sonata form"? 

Short orchestral exposition of the first theme (bars 1-10) followed by an unexpected bridge passage before the solo violin takes up the first theme (bar 21). The first 5 bars of the violin's melody is kept as the orchestra first played it. These five bars make up the main material which will throughout refer back to the first subject. The next nine bars are split into 3 bar phrases which are a variation on bars 6-8 of the original theme as introduced by the orchestra. This will serve as the second subject. A second bridge passage modulates from C-sharp minor to the relative major before the second subject is heard again beginning in A major ending in the relative major. This brings to a close the brief exposition and the piece is launched straight into the development which uses extracts from the first subject. in bar 94 begins an expanded cadenza section before the orchestra picks up with the sweet second subject. after a (compared to the exposition) rather lengthy development the recapitulation will start in the exact same way that the first movement started. The bridge sections will not be the same however and this time the second subject will end in the tonic key. After a short but virtuosic cadenza the orchestra will launch in a final dramatic coda before the movement ends.

does this sound ok?


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

Burroughs said:


> Unfortunately the software I use does not allow seperate key signatures to be allocated to different instruments though.


What software _do_ you use?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Notion - its really good

............


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

I'm not sure if it's your intention or not but it sounds very Sorabjian to be, though lacking more overly complex polyphony found in his orchestration.


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

Hmm, I'd have to say the sound isn't very realistic - if that's an example of their sound fonts I'm not impressed (not your fault ).

I put the first 2 bars on MuseScore, (which is FOSS): http://picosong.com/U4En/ See if you like it.

If I can offer any advice (hopefully without sounding pompous or know-it-all), I'd say that the two most important things for any composer, just about irrespective of style, are strong material and strong invention (i.e. what you do with your material). If you can do both of those things well, its half the battle won. From what I'm seeing and hearing here, your musical instincts seem to quite 
motivically based, so I'd suggest concentrating on creating a lot of new motives, select one or two, and then thinking carefully about what you might do with those.

As to yourself: The number one question is simply: how serious are you? At your age (oh to be 17 again!) you've got all the time in the world, but if you're serious about composition you will need tuition at some point. That said, the very best thing you can do for yourself at this stage is to listen to and study as much music as you can, in as many styles as possible, both old and modern.

Hope this helps and best of luck!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you - I used to use musescore but in my opinion the sounds from notion are much more realistic. I think it uses samples from the LSO. I remember the software being advertised by Salonen as well. 
I think you are right in what you say about me being motif based so I shall try what you say when returning to work on the thrid movement. Currently I am working on the first however 
Im not sure how serious I am. Time will tell maybe xD


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

here is what I have of the first movement so far -


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https://soundcloud.com/m-burroughs%2Fviolin-concerto-1st-movement-3

View attachment Violin Concerto - 1st movement 6.pdf


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