# Recommend a good Tristan und Isolde recording



## Il Seraglio

I am in the process of looking for a CD of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde and must admit to being a little conflicted.

Karl Bohm and the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra looks appealing what with it being performed where it was intended, but some say it is a little too fast (I must say I prefer Lieberstod to be sang a bit slower).

Then there is Barenboim with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra which costs an arm and a leg to buy for some reason.

Any suggestions/thoughts?


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## StlukesguildOhio

I personally prefer the Karajan recording (with the Berlin Philharmonic, Vickers, Berry, Ludwig, etc...). It has an icy perfect lush sensuality to the point of eroticism (I think of an Ingres painting). On the other hand, the Bohm recording is not to be ignored and may be the most dramatic or exciting version. The Furtwangler version on EMI is also highly regarded... and has never been out of print.


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## Chi_townPhilly

What he said....

I _have_ the Karajan recording, The Böhm, and more recently the Furtwängler set- and also have the Barenboim DVD with the Ponnelle staging- and can listen to any of them with pleasure-

Since neither Furtwängler _Ring Cycle_ pack is exactly my cuppa, I was happily surprised by his _Tristan und Isolde_ recording. I don't know if I can find a better-sounding mono recording---

If forced to choose, though, I'll choose *Karajan*(!)


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## World Violist

I don't know Tristan und Isolde at all well. I've heard that Leonard Bernstein's only record for Philips was, in fact, a Tristan complete from Vienna. It is indeed on CD, but is out of print, therefore also costs an arm and a leg. But it's definitely an exciting prospect.


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## Air

I have Bohm's recording, it's excellent. Dirt cheap, too. I agree it is like a charged recording, you can't listen to it while you work, definitely.


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## Il Seraglio

Thanks everyone... I've gone for the Karl Bohm recording.

Reason being, I'm pretty broke (partially because I shelled out £220 to see Tristan in Covent Garden next month).


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## bassClef

Just to note the Kleiber/Dresden account is also highly regarded: "Sensual, penetrating and electrifying" according to one reviewer. I haven't heard it though.


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## Air

bassClef said:


> Just to note the Kleiber/Dresden account is also highly regarded: "Sensual, penetrating and electrifying" according to one reviewer. I haven't heard it though.


That one is cheap too and a great performance. Unfortunately it won't come with the libretto (which is important for me whenever I buy an opera recording) and the sound is significantly worse than the Bohm. (being a californian, i don't bother to put the two dots over the "o" )


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## cultchas

Furtwangler's version on EMI/Angel/Naxos in case you have something extra. Happy Listening!


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## woodenhead

Am i alone in adoring the Solti recording? It was poorly recieved but I find it captures the sheer drama more than any other recording. It is from that very drama that the the philosophical element emerges. With Solti it does just that. Forget the cod-spiritualty of Furtwaengler (however utterly seductive it may be) or the Karajan's execrable superficiallty. And however consistent the Bohm is, it just doen't have the recklessness of the Solti, which is central to the whole narrative.


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## World Violist

Has anyone here heard Fritz Reiner with Kirsten Flagstad and Lauritz Melchior? Looks like a pretty darn good recording, even though recorded live in two performances in 1936.


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## Il Seraglio

woodenhead said:


> Am i alone in adoring the Solti recording? It was poorly recieved but I find it captures the sheer drama more than any other recording. It is from that very drama that the the philosophical element emerges. With Solti it does just that. Forget the cod-spiritualty of Furtwaengler (however utterly seductive it may be) or the Karajan's execrable superficiallty. And however consistent the Bohm is, it just doen't have the recklessness of the Solti, which is central to the whole narrative.


I never knew there was a recording of him doing Tristan. Apart from being a surprisingly excellent Mozart conductor... Solti's recording of the Ring Cycle is utterly outstanding so this is great to hear about.

On a side note (this is to everyone), who would you say was the best tenor to play Tristan? I ask this, because a good Tristan is very rare from what I hear... even on the best recordings.


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## World Violist

Il Seraglio said:


> I never knew there was a recording of him doing Tristan.


There's an entire separate box that's obscenely expensive of Solti doing all the rest of the commonly done Wagner operas (excluding the Ring of course), as well as releasing them all separately, so yes, he did record all of Wagner's major operas.


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## bdelykleon

Böhms recording is the best compromise of vocal quality (far superior to any other in good sound, they have Nilsson and Windgassen in superb form, only Melchior and pre-war Flagstad are better, but in awful sound), orquestral brilliance and good sound. I'd buy it without any doubt.


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## Il Seraglio

bdelykleon said:


> Böhms recording is the best compromise of vocal quality (far superior to any other in good sound, they have Nilsson and Windgassen in superb form, only Melchior and pre-war Flagstad are better, but in awful sound), orquestral brilliance and good sound. I'd buy it without any doubt.


I'm halfway through listening to it now incidentally. It seems like quite a fast interpretation, but Nilsson is amazing.


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## scytheavatar

I would argue that Bohm's Tristan is not fast at all, rather the rest of the Tristan interprets are painfully slow. After I have listened to Bohm and Barenboim's Tristan I could barely stand listening to the typical Tristans.


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## bdelykleon

scytheavatar said:


> I would argue that Bohm's Tristan is not fast at all, rather the rest of the Tristan interprets are painfully slow. After I have listened to Bohm and Barenboim's Tristan I could barely stand listening to the typical Tristans.


Hm, tempi are the most unstable aspect of music performance, and it varies so much from performer to performer, from listener to listener, from day to day, that it is almost impossible to judge something from it. Boehms reading is clear, is very well done from a technical point of view, superb crescendi, a vigorous playing from the orchestra, and it is also very useful to understand the score, it makes clearer the rage of the first act, the erotic excitement of the second and the pain of the third, for these reasons I consider it one of the best readings. And it also have some pretty amazing singers.


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## audiophilia

Carlos Kleiber


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## scytheavatar

I have heard the most of the highly rated Tristan und Isolde, the ones from Karajan, Bohm, Kleiber and Pappano, and I would say either Bohm or Pappano would be the best Tristan und Isolde. Although he is indeed a bit too fast at times I would say that the biggest problem with Bohm's set is still the fact that Windgassen is less than stellar. Otherwise it is the near perfect Tristan, and Nilsson is the perfect Isolde. Pappano has the only good Tristan I have ever heard and is worth considering too, although Stemme is not on the same level as Nilsson. Bohm's set is very good but Kollo gets a thumbs down from me, and Margaret Price is a very hit or miss Isolde. Karajan's Vickers is even more hit or miss, as a whole I wouldn't consider his Tristan one of the top tier Tristans, although I do consider it an interesting and unique Tristan. 

I am still waiting to get my hands on the Reiner Tristan which I have heard good things about.


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## scytheavatar

I am pretty much convinced now that Pappano's Tristan is the best of all the Tristans. While I still rate Nilsson and Price more highly than Stemme, I think Stemme is still a very good Isolde and any other Isolde is not that much better than her. But the real winner is Domingo's Tristan, all the other Tristans are pretty much trash compared to him, especially that Windgassen (whom I have never rated that highly in the 60's, where his vocals had aged greatly). The rest of the cast is stellar too, especially Pape's King Marke. And best of all it comes with a DVD that shows the libretto on the computer, which I hope more recordings will come with. I recommend any wagner fan to check out that recording.


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## Chi_townPhilly

scytheavatar said:


> ...the real winner is Domingo's Tristan, all the other Tristans are pretty much trash compared to him, especially that Windgassen (whom I have never rated that highly in the 60's...)


I have no reason to doubt that Domingo comes off better _on the recording_, but it really is kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison to juxtapose his performance to Windgassen's. Domingo recorded in studio, whereas Windgassen was live at the Bayreuth Festival, where he didn't have the option of sit-downs and hot tea between "takes."

Remarks on the German enunciation of non-Teutonic Wagner singers are something I don't take too seriously. Vickers has sometimes been criticized in this manner. Still, Domingo draws more comment in that regard, and by more than a little bit. The stock answer is that in the archetypal Wagner tenor "outsider" roles- Lohengrin, Tristan, Parsifal- the 'different' accent of Domingo fits in with the story-line. I'm okay with that (heck, I have Domingo's "Lohengrin"), but the very existence of this retro-fit alibi shows that there must be some there there.

I've heard passages of Tristan (in part or in full) from Melchior, Suthaus, Windgassen, Vickers, Kollo, Heppner and Lehman (and I'm leaving out a few not-especially-memorable radio performances), and would not consider the performances of the least of those names listed above to be 'trash,' with or without comparison/contrast.


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## scytheavatar

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I have no reason to doubt that Domingo comes off better _on the recording_, but it really is kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison to juxtapose his performance to Windgassen's. Domingo recorded in studio, whereas Windgassen was live at the Bayreuth Festival, where he didn't have the option of sit-downs and hot tea between "takes."


Solti's Ring cycle was a studio set too, yet you could clearly hear Hans Hotter's age in his Wotan. The same goes for Windgassen, both in Bohm's Tristan and in his Ring. His aged vocals is bad from the first note his sings and has nothing to do with the fatigue of singing for hours. In fact even back in Solti's ring you could already hear some age creeping up on him, although he was nowhere near as bad in it as he was in Bohm's recording. The idea that Windgassen is at his prime in Bohm's Tristan, which some people claim, is quite frankly absurd; you need to go back to the 1955 Keilberth ring to hear what he can do at his prime.


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## World Violist

I'm really tempted to save $40 and get Bernstein's Tristan und Isolde from 1981. Has anyone here heard it? It's out of print, and possibly the most controversial Tristan out there. But I tend to like controversial.


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## Aramis

World Violist said:


> Has anyone here heard it?


In fragments. Didn't like Isolde.


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## World Violist

Aramis said:


> In fragments. Didn't like Isolde.


I don't think I'm enough into opera to really dislike the singers unless they are actually horrendous. As long as the music is good is my primary concern at the moment.


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## scytheavatar

World Violist said:


> I don't think I'm enough into opera to really dislike the singers unless they are actually horrendous. As long as the music is good is my primary concern at the moment.


In that case why waste your money? Why don't you look for the cheapest Tristan und Isolde you can find? I haven't heard Bernstein's Tristan und Isolde but I do know that many who had heard it found it to be unbearbly slow. And the cast is one of the weakest you can find. "Controversial" doesn't necessarily means 'different' and 'unique', most Tristan recordings are controversial in their own way so Bernstein's isn't the only controversial Tristan you can get.


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## World Violist

scytheavatar said:


> In that case why waste your money? Why don't you look for the cheapest Tristan und Isolde you can find? I haven't heard Bernstein's Tristan und Isolde but I do know that many who had heard it found it to be unbearbly slow. And the cast is one of the weakest you can find. "Controversial" doesn't necessarily means 'different' and 'unique', most Tristan recordings are controversial in their own way so Bernstein's isn't the only controversial Tristan you can get.


I've read some reviews that say the cast is generally good, and that Bernstein's interpretation of it is great. What I meant by controversial is that there are very polarized opinions of it. Some people say the tempi are just too slow to make sense, while others say the slower tempi make for an incredible sense of detail and it's a great interpretation etc. It's kind of disturbing to me how much people freak out about the cast being absolutely perfect. Especially in Wagner operas, the orchestra seems to me one of the most important factors, as it lays bare all the psychological implications of what's going on and such. So I'm thinking that Bernstein would have a really good grasp of that.


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## scytheavatar

World Violist said:


> I've read some reviews that say the cast is generally good, and that Bernstein's interpretation of it is great. What I meant by controversial is that there are very polarized opinions of it. Some people say the tempi are just too slow to make sense, while others say the slower tempi make for an incredible sense of detail and it's a great interpretation etc. It's kind of disturbing to me how much people freak out about the cast being absolutely perfect. Especially in Wagner operas, the orchestra seems to me one of the most important factors, as it lays bare all the psychological implications of what's going on and such. So I'm thinking that Bernstein would have a really good grasp of that.


The orchestra is certainly important, but the singers no matter what are more important than the orchestra, cause they are the ones leading the opera and the orchestra is the one accompanying. Wagner operas have an exorbitant level of difficulty for the singers, it's far too easy for the singers to fail to meet the demands of the score. And the roles of Tristan and Isolde are often considered the benchmark when it comes to difficult opera roles, 2 of the hardest roles in the opera repository; you need special singers to be able to pull off the roles. Not a lot of people will consider Behrens or Hofmann to be special singers. Tristan und Isolde is also a unique opera in that it has a small cast for an Wagner opera, very little choral parts and the 2 leads are down there singing on and on for an absurd amount of time. That's why it has a reputation of being boring for long periods; people are listening to recordings without a Tristan or an Isolde that can engage them through those parts.

And anyway Bernstein has never been well known as an opera conductor, his attention-seeking, exaggerated style clashes greatly with what you need to be a good opera conductor. In fact, I struggle to think of an opera recording from him that's highly rated.


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## World Violist

Alright, I'll reconsider this. There are a lot of others.


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## drth15

*Tristan*

Kleiber/Dresden, has almost bel-conto songfulness.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

scytheavatar said:


> _The orchestra is certainly important, but the *singers no matter what are more important than the orchestra*._


Um...
Wagner's concept of gesamtkunstwerk and music-drama is in fact a bit different from traditional grand-opera, and we have it on authority from G. B. Shaw ('The Perfect Wagnerite') that in Wagner's late work (i.e., after Lohengrin) the voice is treated as an equal instrument with all other orchestral instruments--hence Wagner's design of the stage and orchestra pit at Bayreuth: the orchestra is not only sunken, but there is a large overhanging shell which looks something like this:
\~~~-G-----/ 
which pushes the orchestra's sound waves on to the stage as the vocalists' sound waves are projected towards the audience, thusly achieving an equal acoustic intensity.

Wagnerian vocalists are a separate category of opera singers due to the long rôles, stamina and physical requirements needed.

But in any case it is often unseemly how some hyper-enthusiasts tend to treat vocalists as if they are thoroughbred racehorses, handicapping their performances at the track as it were.
It's the wrong approach to art appreciation, which should be one of gratitude and humility.

One would imagine that any vocalist invited to perform with great orchestras at major venues would be entirely qualified, and therefore any performance of a major Wagnerian work should be appreciated for its individuality all round, including the unique timbre and tessitura of the vocalists' instruments: meaning, each singer brings something special to the table.

Of Tristan recordings, some have greatly favoured the *Furtwängler*--although it is virtually an 'antique' recording it's been remastered--featuring the famous Flagstad (although she couldn'd hit her high-Cs which were dubbed by Schwarzkopf):
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Tristan-Isolde-Richard-Classical/dp/B0001E8C14/ref=cm_lmf_tit_28

The *1966 Böhm* set is justly admired:
http://www.amazon.com/Tristan-Isolde-Richard-Wagner/dp/B000001GXS/ref=cm_lmf_tit_8
(The previous year 1965 Böhm's complete Niblung's Ring cycle ditto:
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Ring-Nibelungen-Box-Set/dp/B000025ESY/ref=cm_lmf_tit_27 )

*Kleiber*'s white-hot realization is incredibly admirable:
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Tristan-Isolde-Richard-Classical/dp/B0006ZFQP8/ref=cm_lmf_tit_9

Finally, the *Karajan* and *Bernstein* readings have their merits, but the three CD format of the Böhm and Kleiber have their attractions.
http://www.amazon.com/Richard-Wagne...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1279810034&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Tristan-Isold...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1279810104&sr=1-1

(Bernstein set is OOP and therefore $$$$, although Hildegard Behrens was definitely a great Wagnerian dramatic soprano...)

Which one to get for a novice? Quick answer: *Kleiber or Böhm*.


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## sachs

Hi everybody very friendly!! This is my first message. I have been listening Tristan und Isolde through more that 60 years. Currently, I own many different performances, no DVD's at all in order to preserve the poietic perspective when listening, to imagine different actions and so on; and because I have become, after many considerations and ideas, interested just in the music alone. When one has to recommend a special performance has to know if sound or live performances are details interesting to the person asking for advice. I remember, once in New York to have recommended Böhm's over Solti's to a mature lady who was not very much acquainted with the work. Well, if it's mandatory to recommend just one, after so many years, I by far prefer von Karajan's live recording at Bayreuth. It has very acceptable sound and performers are of the highest quality imaginable (Mödl, Vinay, Hotter, Greindl). All the oceanic perspectives together with incredible performers in Bayreuth Festspiel Haus when the place was exceptional, make the choice very much well justified. There are many extraordinary performances, as Barenboim's, Böhm's, but 'one' work only has been requested. With respect to Karajan's studio one with the great Vickers, lacks a lot to desire, starting with Vickers himself, that seems a little exaggerated in some violent moments; also Berry is a real bad Kurwenal; Ridderbusch is a jewell inside a disaster. Many regards and enjoy Tristan und Isolde!!!!


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## rsmithor

*My fave is DG's CD Tristan und Isolde*

I still enjoy "The Originals" 449 772-2. (3CD's) Karl Bohm/Bayreuther Festspiele live 1966 recording... Bohm's style of conducting Wagner's score, without cuts, and never sounds rushed. Great singer's are afoot through out this recording; Windgassen/Tristan, Nilsson/Isolde; Ludwig/Brangane; Talvela/Marke, all hitting there marks with ease.


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## Aksel

My favourite Tristan is the 1952 with Flagstad (and three notes by Schwarzkopf) and Suthaus conducted by Furtwängler. A truly amazing recording with Flagstad at the peak of her expressive powers.


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## Rangstrom

Kleiber is probably my favorite, but the '53 Jochum (an underrated Wagner conductor) at Bayreuth with Vinay and Varnay is worth a listen. Sound is pretty good although less so in act 3.


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## tahnak

My Tristan stays with Furtwangler followed by Karajan and Zubin Mehta.


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## annie

my favorite is Pappano's...


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## hrpschrd

Tristan is one of my favorite pieces of music and one that I respond to viscerally. Even though I an not an expert on opera or even Wagner, I have a perspective I would like to share. I have (or have had) Reiner, Furtwangler, Kleiber, Bernstein, and Bohm. I gave away both Bernstein and Bohm and now mostly listen to Reiner. But not to Reiner - to Flagstad and Melchior.

I can't judge the performances without focusing on the two leads in this work. It is all about Tristan and Isolde. 

The DG Kleiber recording should be spectacular and powerful and acoustically flawless and it is. But Kollo and Price sound (to me) to be singers, although great ones. In the old poor-sounding Reiner; Flagstad and Melchior sound like lovers. Even better is a recording I have of "Wagner Duets" with those two, and some un-named conductor and orchestra. Melchior has such a deep and powerful voice that he seems to be singing with no effort whatsoever. Flagstad puts little things into her words that make me just melt. Her voice is also so smooth (except at the top) and sultry that I just believe in her passion.

So this is just my opinion and how I like Tristan and Isolde. Bernstein just seemed completely empty; Bohm was another good sounding professional performance. The Furtwangler is probably the best all-round choice because the sound is ok for mono and Flagstad is superb. It is just hard to miss out on Melchior in that one.

The Reiner I have is on Arkadia and it actually sounds like there is running water next to the orchestra. Horrible sound really. Does anyone know if the Naxos or Vai Audio recordings of the same performance have better sound?

And what about the Beecham-Reiner set on EMI of 1936/37? Anybody heard it? It has a great review on Arkiv so it could be the prize for me. Answer quickly before I splurge on that one!


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## BalloinMaschera

Flagstad, Nilsson and Grob-Prandl (to some the greatest Wagnerian soprano of them all) should feature in any T&I collection, me thinks.


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## jdavid

This is the one with Helga Dernesch as Isolde, right? It is the one that I think comes closest to a perfect cast - the 2nd Act Duo is worth the price of the entire recording. Just my opinion.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> I personally prefer the Karajan recording (with the Berlin Philharmonic, Vickers, Berry, Ludwig, etc...). It has an icy perfect lush sensuality to the point of eroticism (I think of an Ingres painting). On the other hand, the Bohm recording is not to be ignored and may be the most dramatic or exciting version. The Furtwangler version on EMI is also highly regarded... and has never been out of print.


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## BalloinMaschera

I also have a soft-spot for Linda Esther Gray's Isolde

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=309303


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## Itullian

check Karajan's mono Beyreuth version. '53 I think. Fantastic, and on 3 discs.


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## AndyS

woodenhead said:


> Am i alone in adoring the Solti recording? It was poorly recieved but I find it captures the sheer drama more than any other recording. It is from that very drama that the the philosophical element emerges. With Solti it does just that. Forget the cod-spiritualty of Furtwaengler (however utterly seductive it may be) or the Karajan's execrable superficiallty. And however consistent the Bohm is, it just doen't have the recklessness of the Solti, which is central to the whole narrative.


Is the Solti version out of print? I know that it's not well thought of, but I've been trying to track it down for ages, and even trying to pick it up 2nd hand is very difficult - I have the rest of Solti's Wagner recordings and want his Tristan to complete the 'set'.

If anyone knows where I can get a copy (even 2nd hand - provided it's the 'latest' issue of it), I would be very very grateful.

Currently my favourite is Bohm (although the only other I have heard is the Furtwangler) - Nilsson is just phenomenal!


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## bigshot

I have most of the Tristans mentioned here, and the worst is the Solti, and the two I keep coming back to are the Bohm and Furtwangler. The Karajan has great orchestral conducting, but the cast can't compare to the other two. The only drawback to the Bohm is the prompter is audible in one scene. (Matti Talvela)


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## Itullian

anyone have the live Kleiber stereo version?


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## AndyS

I'm just listening to the Kleiber one for the first time (I got the DG Kleiber box set for Christmas)

While its not as good as Bohms, Im really enjoying it thus far actually - Price is not the Isolde that you're used to hearing, in that she has a lighter voice than what you would expect in the role, but she is a very youthful and beautiful sounding Isolde. I would understand why she wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea in the role though


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## Moscow-Mahler

bigshot said:


> I have most of the Tristans mentioned here, and the worst is the Solti...


In fact, Solti wanted to re-record it in 1997-1998. He said in his bio, that the sound balance was not good and he was too young (mentally) and unexpierenced to understand Tristan and Isolde. It was one of his unrealesed projects, the other one was to make a recording of Mahler's Tenth, after studying different reconstructions and making a new one (I think, he would have liked Mazetti's Second version, if it were published that time).


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## Itullian

the Barenboim is pretty awesome.


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## brianwalker

The Barenboim has the best sound engineering and orchestral playing.


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## Aksel

brianwalker said:


> The Barenboim has the best sound engineering and orchestral playing.


But the Furtwängler one has Furtwängler. And Flagstad.

Point proved.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Aksel said:


> But the Furtwängler one has Furtwängler. And Flagstad.
> 
> Point proved.


But the Barenboim one has Waltraud Meier and Siegfried Jerusalem.

Point proved.


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## brianwalker

Aksel said:


> But the Furtwängler one has Furtwängler. And Flagstad.
> 
> Point proved.


Many of the nuances of his conducting is effaced by the poor sound technology of his time. Furthermore Furtwangler wasn't at the top of his game that recording. He was, after all, only 2 years from death, and Flagstad, well, I'm sure you know all about the high Cs that Schwarzkopf had to sing for her. The harsh truth is that people age, and everything ages with them. Compare the Furtwangler recording with fragments that Flagstad recorded in the 1930s and early 40s to hear the difference. I know that many people don't like Meier because she's suppose to be mezzo but for me she's dramatically one of the best Isolde on disc, if not the best (on stereo). When people compare Isoldes the tendency is to place the most difficult to sing excerpts side by side and measure greatness by sheer power, so of course Meier comes up short in those comparisons, but what about the "Ha! Ich bin's" or "Hörst du sie noch?"? Meier is a native German and her diction is fantastic, which gives her a commanding edge in the Wagnerian ideal of Sprechgesang.


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## bigshot

"Bad" Furtwangler and Flagstad is better than anything we have today. That Tristan recording is a treasure, and I can't imagine a Wagner fan not having a copy of it.


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## EqualMoneySystem

+1 for the 1936 Flagstad, Melchior, Reiner


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## DavidA

I got the Bohm years ago. It is tremendously exciting and Nilsson is vocally phenomenal - just listen to her singing the lieberstode at the end - live! But she isn't very lovable. She'd send any man running for his life! This is the problem Wagner sets us - trying to love unloveable characters. Windgassen's tenor was just about worn out by the time he gave this performance but no-one can doubt his intelligence - apart from drinking that potion!

I got the Kleiber with Price a far more loveable Isolde though it's quite clear the engineers have helped her and her Tristan, Kollo. But as a recording it is worth it for Kleiber's contribution and to hear Isolde as a loveable woman rather than a Valkyrie.

I've found a cheap copy of Karajan with Vickers of which I've heard such mixed reviews. Maybe it will help me to love this opera rather than just admire it.


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## korenbloem

Years ago I got Bohm and it was for years the only version I heard. I thought it was a satisfying preformance. The reason I bought bohm, was simply: It was the most recommended by critici and fans.
A few weeks back I tried furtwangler's on EMI and this recording made me rethink about my perspective about Tristand und Isolde. And even my hole perspective and philosophies on music in total. Furtwangel brings a terrific musical approach to this Opera, that I only hear music, not story telling music. Furtwangler captures an emotional depth, that without knowing the words etc, I understand the emotions, pain and tragic of this 'Opera'. But also I begin to accept that music may truely be the highest forms of the arts.

Does anyone know some great modern recordings of Tristan und Isolde (post-2005)


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## StlukesguildOhio

But the Barenboim one has Waltraud Meier and Siegfried Jerusalem.

Point proved.


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## Itullian

korenbloem said:


> Years ago I got Bohm and it was for years the only version I heard. I thought it was a satisfying preformance. The reason I bought bohm, was simply: It was the most recommended by critici and fans.
> A few weeks back I tried furtwangler's on EMI and this recording made me rethink about my perspective about Tristand und Isolde. And even my hole perspective and philosophies on music in total. Furtwangel brings a terrific musical approach to this Opera, that I only hear music, not story telling music. Furtwangler captures an emotional depth, that without knowing the words etc, I understand the emotions, pain and tragic of this 'Opera'. But also I begin to accept that music may truely be the highest forms of the arts.
> 
> Does anyone know some great modern recordings of Tristan und Isolde (post-2005)


Don't know of any "great" Tristans after 2005. 
I have the Pappano, Domingo on EMI and enjoy it very much though.


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## DavidA

I bought the Karajan version. It certainly isn't perfect - the balances are out at times. Some of Karajan's tempi are slow and Dernesch is a bit strained at times. Yet there is a wonderful human quality about her singing that moves the heart. And there is the incomparable Vickers as Tristan. And the BPO producing miraculous sounds. This is a Tristan to love.


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## Itullian

DavidA said:


> I bought the Karajan version. It certainly isn't perfect - the balances are out at times. Some of Karajan's tempi are slow and Dernesch is a bit strained at times. Yet there is a wonderful human quality about her singing that moves the heart. And there is the incomparable Vickers as Tristan. And the BPO producing miraculous sounds. This is a Tristan to love.


Agree. This should have been a Great Recording of the Century, imho.


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## DavidA

Itullian said:


> Agree. This should have been a Great Recording of the Century, imho.


The engineering, unfortunately, does leave something to be desired. Someone should have had the guts to kick HvK out of the control room! As Culshaw said, although he knew more about recording than most conductors, he didn't know as much as he thought he did.


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## korenbloem

Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Rangstrom

I just picked up the Knappertsbusch '50. Treptow and Braun do an amazing job. They seem to be saving their voices in the first part of the duet (can you blame them), but shine elsewhere. The rest of Act 2 is among the best ever, aided by Kna's turning down the temperature and lowering the orchestral volume. They sound like languorous lovers. The supporting cast--Schöffler, Frantz and Klose--all live up to their reputations. Pace is slowish, but that gives everything time to breathe. Really Knappertsbusch is the star here. Sound is livable.


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## Oreb

In defence of the Bernstein, for all the imperfections of the cast I think it has a number of very strong points which, while I wouldn't recommend it as a starting point, make me very pleased that it exists.

The whole first half of Act III is stunning - extremely painful and florid like fever - a remarkable interpretation IMO, which is second only to Karajan's work with Vickers.

The other gem here is definitely Yvonne Minton's Brangaene. This is a beautiful performance. Her work in Act II - particularly the Watch - is great.

I understand the positive comments re the recent-ish Domingo recording, but for me it's a case of admiring all the parts without feeling overwhelmed by the whole. There's something missing for me, which I put down to Pappano's work. It's his job to tie it all together and I can't hear that happening. A pity, but a _Tristan und Isolde_ that's not dangerously overwhelming, let's face it, is a failed _Tristan und Isolde_.


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## dgee

How do youse go with these old recordings? I'm too distracted by old professional standards in orchestral musicianship and recording to get to grips with the interpretation


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## Oreb

They take some getting used to, but I find I pretty quickly adapt to the difference in sound.

Probably helps that I love old jazz like Jelly Roll Morton, the Hot Club of Paris and Louis' Hot 5s and 7s. The only way to hear them is via recordings much less sophisticated than early classical ones.


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## Itullian

dgee said:


> How do youse go with these old recordings? I'm too distracted by old professional standards in orchestral musicianship and recording to get to grips with the interpretation


Orchestral musicianship was great in the past. 
You don't have to sacrifice sound for a great performance.
Get the Bohm on DG. A very exciting performance.
And even better each act is uninterrupted, which is a HUGE
plus for me.


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## Wouter

*Tristan since 2005*



Itullian said:


> Don't know of any "great" Tristans after 2005.
> I have the Pappano, Domingo on EMI and enjoy it very much though.


The DVD with Belohlavek conducting the London Philharmonic and Gambill and Stemme is one I like very much. René Pape as Marke is great. I think the staging by Lehnhoff is perfect.

On CD I stick with the old mono version by Furtwängler. Hard to believe anyone could do better. The remastered sound is very good.


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## Ymer

+ 1 for Bohm. Exciting performance and it just doesn't get any better than Birgit Nilsson AND Christa Ludwig as her Bragäne. Two of the very best right there! 

Of all the aforementioned, I think the Furtwangler is also a must have. It's just so beautiful and haunting. It grips you right from the Prelude. It sounds ok for its age too. Plus, you can never get enough of Kirsten Flagstad, right?


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## PeachlovinBari

What's the opinion of the new PentaTone recording with Janowski conducting.


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## gellio

woodenhead said:


> Am i alone in adoring the Solti recording? It was poorly recieved but I find it captures the sheer drama more than any other recording. It is from that very drama that the the philosophical element emerges. With Solti it does just that. Forget the cod-spiritualty of Furtwaengler (however utterly seductive it may be) or the Karajan's execrable superficiallty. And however consistent the Bohm is, it just doen't have the recklessness of the Solti, which is central to the whole narrative.


No! I feel exactly the same way. The Solti recording is magnificent IMO. I am swept away more with this recording than perhaps any other. It's amazing.


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## staggandbeetle

I currently own three recordings, von Karajan's on EMI with Helga Dernesch and Jon Vickers, Karl Böhm's on DG with Birgit Nilsson and Wolfgang Windgassen and Carlos Kleiber's, also on DG, with Margaret Price and René Kollo, which in pre-CD and pre-Eurostar days kept me going on an exceedingly rough Channel crossing just after having seen the New Year in in Paris.

They all give me much pleasure but the last mentioned gives me the most, probably because of the above mentioned memory.


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## Marschallin Blair

Stagganbeetle: They all give me much pleasure but the last mentioned gives me the most, probably because of the above mentioned memory.

Ha. Ha. Ha. . . I loved that. I never conceived of Tristan und Isolde in terms of convalescing. If anything, the love music from Act II and the Liebestod wind me UP.


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## DavidA

The best recorded performance IMO is Karajan 52 at Bayreuth. Tremendous intensity with Karajan, Hotter and Modl outstanding and Vinay more than keeping his end up. Apparently HvK had to be helped out of the pit afterwards. The Membran version I have is quite cheap and a pretty good transfer. However, the sound is, of course, limited. But the performance is absolutely electrifying.


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## staggandbeetle

Thank you, Marschallin Blair...perhaps I worded that badly, I wasn't at all seasick or hungover, I was merely standing up on deck in the cold, avoiding those that were seasick down below, whilst listening to TRISTAN on my cassette player and drinking coffee laced with brandy, bracing myself against the rolling of the ferry!


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## Couchie

One must have the Barenboim and Meier recordings. One must have them. What a shame some live in a Flagstad/Furtwangler fantasy and do not recognize the living geniuses among us.


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## Guest

Couchie said:


> One must have the Barenboim and Meier recordings. One must have them. What a shame some live in a Flagstad/Furtwangler fantasy and do not recognize the living geniuses among us.


Are you referring to the Teldec recording with the Klimt painting on the cover, with Berlin? Or another? I notice it is only $13.99 on iTunes - a steal, and might even tempt me to buy it. I'm not the biggest Wagner, or Tristan fan, but I try and have at least 1 copy of the "important" works, and this might work.


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## SixFootScowl

Couchie said:


> One must have the Barenboim and Meier recordings. One must have them. What a shame some live in a Flagstad/Furtwangler fantasy and do not recognize the living geniuses among us.


My favorite so far is Barenboim with Meier!

Some extensive reviews of Tristan und Isolde on CD:

At Gramophone 2015.

BBC in 2016 and includes You Tube videos.


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## bigshot

Somewhere I have a live Kleiber recording with Vickers and Price. It's really good. I bought it by accident thinking it was the studio Kollo / Price set. Glad I did. It's pretty special. I think it was recorded in South America.


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## Guest

No substitute for Bohm/Bayreuther (DG, live recording). A sense of urgency I've not heard elsewhere.


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## flamencosketches

I have Böhm/Bayreuth, not in the market for any other as I never listen to Wagner, but I agree that the Barenboim sounds great. He is a surprisingly talented Wagnerian conductor. I believe he was either the first to conduct Wagner in Israel, or he was shut down by the government when trying to do such.


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## DavidA

bigshot said:


> Somewhere I have a live Kleiber recording with Vickers and Price. It's really good. I bought it by accident thinking it was the studio Kollo / Price set. Glad I did. It's pretty special. I think it was recorded in South America.


Vickers and Price? Price never sang the role on stage


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## DavidA

flamencosketches said:


> I have Böhm/Bayreuth, not in the market for any other as I never listen to Wagner, but I agree that the Barenboim sounds great. He is a surprisingly talented Wagnerian conductor. *I believe he was either the first to conduct Wagner in Israel, or he was shut down by the government when trying to do such*.


No just a typically arrogant Barenboim gesture in deciding what others wanted.


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## Brahmsianhorn

My favorites, in order:

Flagstad/Suthaus/Furtwängler
Flagstad/Melchior/Bodanzky (1937) 
Bunchner/Lorenz/Heger
Mödl/Vinay/Karajan
Braun/Treptow/Knappertsbusch
Nilsson/Windgassen/Böhm 
Price/Kollo/Kleiber


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## DavidA

Couchie said:


> One must have the Barenboim and Meier recordings. One must have them. What a shame some live in a Flagstad/Furtwangler fantasy and do not recognize the living geniuses among us.


Meier's voice is too low for Isolde.


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## Guest

Couchie said:


> One must have the Barenboim and Meier recordings. One must have them. What a shame some live in a Flagstad/Furtwangler fantasy and do not recognize the living geniuses among us.


Barenboim's Wagner seems too static to me.


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## SixFootScowl

DavidA said:


> Meier's voice is too low for Isolde.


That is what I like about it. I am a mezzo addict! :lol:


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## Barbebleu

DavidA said:


> Vickers and Price? Price never sang the role on stage


I concur. I have two live Tristans from Bayreuth, 1974 and 1975 with Kleiber conducting and they have Brilioth and Ligendza in the title roles. Can't find any trace of Vickers and Price on disc.


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## howlingfantods

I appreciate many things about my many recordings (30'ish I think?)--Furtwangler's conducting, particularly in Act 2, Lorenz's desperation in Act 3, the lush and beautiful orchestral playing and sound on the Karajan, Bernstein and Barenboim, my absolute favorite King Marke of Kurt Moll on three of my Kleiber recordings, the inapposite but absolutely beautifully sung Isolde of Margaret Price.


But I appreciate those things for about an hour or so, and then I think to myself "hmm, maybe I'll switch to the Bohm". And then I do.


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## howlingfantods

Barbebleu said:


> I concur. I have two live Tristans from Bayreuth, 1974 and 1975 with Kleiber conducting and they have Brilioth and Ligendza in the title roles. Can't find any trace of Vickers and Price on disc.


I have three live Kleibers--74, 78 Bayreuth and 76 La Scala--and one is Ligendza Brilioth and the other two have Ligendza Wenkoff. Which all leads to the question, what did Ligendza do to Kleiber between 1978 and 1980 to make him spurn her and use Margaret Price instead for the studio recording??


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## bigshot

DavidA said:


> Vickers and Price? Price never sang the role on stage


Fuzzy memory then. I must have gotten it wrong on both leads when I bought it. It definitely ha Vickers and I remember that it was recorded in South America. Next time I dig out my opera CDs I'll check who it is. It was a very odd release on a small label that I found at Tower.


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## DavidA

bigshot said:


> Fuzzy memory then. I must have gotten it wrong on both leads when I bought it. It definitely ha Vickers and I remember that it was recorded in South America. Next time I dig out my opera CDs I'll check who it is. It was a very odd release on a small label that I found at Tower.


This one?


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## DavidA

howlingfantods said:


> I have three live Kleibers--74, 78 Bayreuth and 76 La Scala--and one is Ligendza Brilioth and the other two have Ligendza Wenkoff. Which all leads to the question, what did Ligendza do to Kleiber between 1978 and 1980 to make him spurn her and use *Margaret Price* instead for the studio recording??


Margaret Price never sang Isolde on stage was a superb Mozartian, Straussian, and sometime Verdian. The voice is ripe but never strained, and always beautiful; if you've only heard traditional 'Wagnerian' sopranos in this role, Price will surprise and seduce you. Kleiber wanted a young princess rather than a battleship. Of course, it wouldn't have worked in the theatre.


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## howlingfantods

DavidA said:


> Margaret Price never sang Isolde on stage was a superb Mozartian, Straussian, and sometime Verdian. The voice is ripe but never strained, and always beautiful; if you've only heard traditional 'Wagnerian' sopranos in this role, Price will surprise and seduce you. Kleiber wanted a young princess rather than a battleship. Of course, it wouldn't have worked in the theatre.


I was joking, David. I wasn't really asking for a reason why. I just thought it was funny that he performed it with Ligendza many many times onstage but didn't use her for his recording.


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## DavidA

howlingfantods said:


> I was joking, David. I wasn't really asking for a reason why. I just thought it was funny that he performed it with Ligendza many many times onstage but didn't use her for his recording.


Yes I realised your question was rhetorical but was trying to make sense of why he did it. Of course, he flounced out of the recording before it was finished so DG had to patch the thing together out of rehearsal takes. Kleiber apparently was furious but couldn't get the fact that a recording company doesn't want to spend a fortune on recording an opera and then not release it on the whim of the conductor.


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## howlingfantods

DavidA said:


> Yes I realised your question was rhetorical but was trying to make sense of why he did it. Of course, he flounced out of the recording before it was finished so DG had to patch the thing together out of rehearsal takes. Kleiber apparently was furious but couldn't get the fact that a recording company doesn't want to spend a fortune on recording an opera and then not release it on the whim of the conductor.


Thanks David. Do you have any other information about the Kleiber recording you'd care to share?


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## wkasimer

bigshot said:


> Fuzzy memory then. I must have gotten it wrong on both leads when I bought it. It definitely ha Vickers and I remember that it was recorded in South America. Next time I dig out my opera CDs I'll check who it is. It was a very odd release on a small label that I found at Tower.


Might be this one:


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## bigshot

I'll have to check. My brain is failing me on this one I think.


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## millionrainbows

I got my Barenboim Tristan for $5.49! Ha haaaa....


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## flamencosketches

^Have you heard his Parsifal? It's available for even cheaper...


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## DavidA

howlingfantods said:


> Thanks David. Do you have any other information about the Kleiber recording you'd care to share?


Apparently the whole thing was meticulously rehearsed with Kleiber coaching Price into exactly the Isolde he had in his mind, in the recording studio, at least. Disagreements during the sessions led to him walking out, leaving the project unfinished. DG's producer, however, had kept the microphones on during rehearsals, and managed to put together a complete performance, released two years after the conductor had abandoned the recording. I don't know of any other major studio opera recording with such a bizarre story, where it is released in spite of the conductor. Take it from me, it is absolutely spellbinding.


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## SixFootScowl

DavidA said:


> Apparently the whole thing was meticulously rehearsed with Kleiber coaching Price into exactly the Isolde he had in his mind, in the recording studio, at least. Disagreements during the sessions led to him walking out, leaving the project unfinished. DG's producer, however, had kept the microphones on during rehearsals, and managed to put together a complete performance, released two years after the conductor had abandoned the recording. I don't know of any other major studio opera recording with such a bizarre story, where it is released in spite of the conductor. *Take it from me, it is absolutely spellbinding.*


I can't stand it any longer. Just hit "buy" on a used VG copy of this one for $8 shipped.


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## bigshot

Kleiber is always interesting. I admire his work a lot.


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