# 4"33", Rudy and Toots



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

It's an anniversary day. The premiere of John Cage's three-movement 4′33″ was given by David Tudor on August 29, 1952, in Woodstock, New York. Maybe today is a good day to listen to that piece of music.

I will listen to _4'33"_ today simultaneously with recordings of record producer Rudy Van Gelder and of guitarist/harmonica-ist Toots Thielemans, two jazz giants who died last week. I don't think John Cage would mind. After all, _4'33"_ is not a "silent" piece of music, but one which utilizes the occurring_ sounds _during performance. I'll put my Frank Zappa performance on repeat in my CD player and then play vinyl pressings of Van Gelder and Thielemans recordings. Sound like it will be a glorious listening session, eh?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

What are the chances that this thread will turn into a wide-ranging discussion of the lives and works of Rudy Van Gelder and Toots Thielemans?


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

As a moderate John Cage fan, I'll do the respectful thing and listen to his Etudes, electronic works and his cycles for prepared piano. Then his orchestral pieces, all of which have notes in them and are musically rewarding.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> What are the chances that this thread will turn into a wide-ranging discussion of the lives and works of Rudy Van Gelder and Toots Thielemans?


Amen to this .


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Since I am ignorant of Rudy and Toots, and have 4'33" on infinite loop (I'm listening to it right now), today will be just like any other day. But happy anniversary to whoever is having one.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

why is *this* in a classical forum?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Zhdanov said:


> why is *this* in a classical forum?


Because nowhere else would anyone have the slightest idea how four and a half minutes could have an anniversary.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Ordinarily, I would listen to 4'33" on my big stereo system, but the volume control isn't working. I found this out when trying to listen to 4'33" last week.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Because nowhere else would anyone have the slightest idea how four and a half minutes could have an anniversary.


in sports they do use timing and make records based on it. Cage thus pertains to sports rather than music.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> It's an anniversary day. The premiere of John Cage's three-movement 4′33″ was given by David Tudor on August 29, 1952, in Woodstock, New York. Maybe today is a good day to listen to that piece of music.
> 
> I will listen to _4'33"_ today simultaneously with recordings of record producer Rudy Van Gelder and of guitarist/harmonica-ist Toots Thielemans, two jazz giants who died last week. I don't think John Cage would mind. After all, _4'33"_ is not a "silent" piece of music, but one which utilizes the occurring_ sounds _during performance. I'll put my Frank Zappa performance on repeat in my CD player and then play vinyl pressings of Van Gelder and Thielemans recordings. Sound like it will be a glorious listening session, eh?


To be honest, not really no.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Two interesting, previously unmentioned facts peculiar to the work 4'33": It is the only classical work that defies interpretation and which can only be played at the same exact tempo. Any attempt to mess with these two things will fail.

Also, this piece cannot be heard on vinyl as intended since ticks and pops and other groove noise will interfere.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

DaveM said:


> Two interesting, previously unmentioned facts peculiar to the work 4'33": It is the only classical work that defies interpretation and which can only be played at the same exact tempo. Any attempt to mess with these two things will fail.
> 
> Also, this piece cannot be heard on vinyl as intended since ticks and pops and other groove noise will interfere.


Cage would probably say that the pops should be heard as part of the music.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DaveM said:


> Two interesting, previously unmentioned facts peculiar to the work 4'33": It is the only classical work that defies interpretation and which can only be played at the same exact tempo. Any attempt to mess with these two things will fail.
> 
> Also, this piece cannot be heard on vinyl as intended since ticks and pops and other groove noise will interfere.


The first is not true. There are plenty of electronic and tape pieces which do not allow any interpretation and can only be played back in one way.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Mahlerian said:


> The first is not true. There are plenty of electronic and tape pieces which do not allow any interpretation and can only be played back in one way.


Hmm, I guess so.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

DaveM said:


> Ordinarily, I would listen to 4'33" on my big stereo system, but the volume control isn't working. I found this out when trying to listen to 4'33" last week.


You sure it was switched on?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Interesting article by Alex Ross this week in the New Yorker on the Wandelweiser Collective - a group of musicians who take their inspiration from 4'33".

And for those who may not favor that work, there's also a long article on Yuja Wang (with a hot photo  )


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