# BARITONE TOURNAMENT (Semifinal #2): Ruffo vs De Luca



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Selecting the recordings for this round proved a bit difficult. The De Luca with orchestra is sub-standard for comparison, so I'm using a De Luca recording with piano accompaniment against a Ruffo with orchestra. I know all of you are discerning enough for that not to matter.

Titta Ruffo, Italy, 1877-1953






Giuseppe De Luca, Italy, 1876-1950






Who's singing did you prefer and why? Notice that Ruffo and De Luca were direct contemporaries, so being compared to each other is par for the course for these two


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

(duplicate post)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Ruffo does nothing for me in this. He just roars away, "can belto," steamrolling over all the opportunities for expressive coloring, and his rhythmic liberties sound unfocused and self-indulgent. (I couldn't play the example you posted, so I had to find a different posting on YouTube 



 ). De Luca isn't my favorite in Verdi - he could use some of Ruffo's ferocity - but he always seems intelligent, expressive and musical, as well as vocally impeccable.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

If anyone else is unable to play the Ruffo recording let me know and I'll swap it out. It's working for me at the moment...


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Didn't work for me either, said something about premium YouTube Music service requirement.

I voted for Ruffo this time, for some reason the De Luca performance was almost impassioned. He was also uncomfortable in higher register (check, for example, around 2:10 - 2:13, he breaks on _"d'amor"_).
And Ruffo's _"È finito"_ sounds so definite and so tragic, can I resist that? Impossible, impossible.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sorry Cannot get Ruffo. I am not a Premium Subscriber.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Sorry Cannot get Ruffo. I am not a Premium Subscriber.


Nor I. I can't play it either, I assume because I don't pay for youtube services.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

For Ruffo, use this video instead, link provided by Woodduck:


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Ruffo does nothing for me in this. He just roars away, "can belto," steamrolling over all the opportunities for expressive coloring, and his rhythmic liberties sound unfocused and self-indulgent. (I couldn't play the example you posted, so I had to find a different posting on YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> ). De Luca isn't my favorite in Verdi - he could use some of Ruffo's ferocity - but he always seems intelligent, expressive and musical, as well as vocally impeccable.


I actually cannot BELIEVE that we heard the same person. I heard no "roaring, can-belto-ing or steamrolling over opportunities for expressive coloring" as you said.
I found his to be much more heartbroken and sad and the emotions, for me, came right through despite the lack of proper recording. And I agree with Azol using the word _tragic_ to describe that sad "e finito".
Ruffo -- all the way.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> I actually cannot BELIEVE that we heard the same person. I heard no "roaring, can-belto-ing or steamrolling over opportunities for expressive coloring" as you said.
> I found his to be much more heartbroken and sad and the emotions, for me, came right through despite the lack of proper recording. And I agree with Azol using the word _tragic_ to describe that sad "e finito".
> Ruffo -- all the way.


I gave him another listen and liked him a bit more. I still find him loud and aggressive and his vocal coloration monotonous. Partly a matter of taste, I guess.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Haha I'm sorry guys! I created this thread in the middle of a YouTube Premium free trial period. Thank you Woodduck and Azol for providing recordings everyone can access


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Ruffo, for me.

I like a lot about that record: his interpretation, the vibrancy and focus of his voice (notably 3:48 onwards) and, yes, the volume at the end is a luxury.

I have reservations that he did not sing particularly quietly around 1:42-2:07: he could trust us to a few seconds of shading, after all, and to be a little less hectoring. There was no danger of us thinking him a lightweight after that menacing start and the aria has that marvellous climax for him to show off the volume and range of his voice anyway. 

With De Luca, I love that middle part of his performance - paste De Luca's 'O dolcezze perdute! O memorie etc' into Ruffo's performance and it would bring some grace, a moment of inward reflection rather than extrovert display. 

The only thing is that De Luca could never approximate Ruffo's magnificent sound trumpeting "Brillava d'amor" etc. If Ruffo's performance is a bit too loud, De Luca does not, for me, generate enough excitement to keep it interesting and to effectively contrast that subdued middle section with the blame, hatred and recrimination of the other verses.

As it is, I find the start of De Luca's performance very understated before the snarl at 'Traditor!' and the end is, not unexpectedly, small-scaled compared to Ruffo's baleful "E finito" etc. De Luca's 'd'amor' is beautifully phrased and 'correct' at 3:01 while Ruffo's 'speranze' at 3:53 is exciting, anguished and, to me, more dramatic.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks again for the interesting comparisons, Bonetan. I keep changing priorities! previously, I chose Merrill over Bastianini because Merrill's performance was, to me, more careful about dynamics, more lyrical and beautiful. 

This time you gave us one of the smoothest and most beautiful voices in de Luca, who arguably managed the quiet section better than any... but I just can't resist that sound Ruffo makes !


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Ruffo's voice is far more glorious than De Luca could ever dream, but De Luca's technical mastery of his instrument gives him the nod for me. If you could mesh these two together you'd have the perfect Verdi baritone.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> Ruffo's voice is far more glorious than De Luca could ever dream, but De Luca's technical mastery of his instrument gives him the nod for me. If you could mesh these two together you'd have the perfect Verdi baritone.


Having a glorious voice and a sensitive technique...Battistini stands out to me. Perhaps Stracciari and Amato have more glamorous voices than De Luca and are more sensitive singers than Ruffo? I guess they approach the ideal better than most.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Having a glorious voice and a sensitive technique...Battistini stands out to me. Perhaps Stracciari and Amato have more glamorous voices than De Luca and are more sensitive singers than Ruffo? I guess they approach the ideal better than most.


I 100% agree that Battistini stands above all other baritones in this regard. With stronger low notes I'd consider him a near perfect singer.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

^^ What Bonetan said. I love the natural sound Ruffo produces, but his singing here is fairly wooden and monochromatic. De Luca does well some sensitive contrasts and dynamics that the aria calls for.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> I 100% agree that Battistini stands above all other baritones in this regard. With stronger low notes I'd consider him a near perfect singer.


As close to perfect as I've heard in this rep.

There is no real way of knowing but perhaps we can speculate his low notes were stronger when he was young? He was something like 46, I think, when he _first_ recorded in 1902. For comparison, imagine Gobbi's recording career _starting_ in 1959, nothing of Taddei before 1962, Panerai in 1970, Milnes in 1981 etc. Not ancient, by any means, but perhaps a factor. Battistini was recording for another 22 years after that...

I think if there is a musical figure we might envy most it would be the teacher Antonio Cotogni: friend to Verdi, he tutored at various times (among others) Jean de Reszke, Beniamino Gigli, Giacomo Lauri-Volpi, Mattia Battistini, Giuseppe de Luca and Titta Ruffo.

I'm guessing if there were ever 'perfect' Verdian sounds there is a good chance they were within earshot of that studio


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Revitalized Classics said:


> As close to perfect as I've heard in this rep.
> 
> There is no real way of knowing but perhaps we can speculate his low notes were stronger when he was young? He was something like 46, I think, when he _first_ recorded in 1902. For comparison, imagine Gobbi's recording career _starting_ in 1959, nothing of Taddei before 1962, Panerai in 1970, Milnes in 1981 etc. Not ancient, by any means, but perhaps a factor. Battistini was recording for another 22 years after that...
> 
> ...


From what I gathered in the book about Battistini, his low notes were always a weakness (he was aware of it) and there were many who thought that he was possibly a tenor during his lifetime. He was capable of pianissimo high A flats and As so I believe what we have with Battistini is a baritenor who fortunately for all of us chose to sing as a baritone.

I would cut off one of my arms to coach with Cotogni :lol: he was Battistini's predecessor and certainly a friend and resource, but it was Persichini who gave Battistini his vocal technique. From the book:

"The names of many voice professors have been linked to Battistini: for example, Alessandro Orsini, Augusto Rotoli, Eugenio Terziani, and Venceslao Persichini. Probably not all of them were linked to him. The addition of the great baritone Cotogni to the list, as found in _The Levik Memoirs_, makes one wonder how many lessons and what degree of coaching in a role qualifies someone to be regarded as a singer's teacher. As a contemporary press notice reveals: "After the performance [of Don Giovani, Battistini] was called back more than twenty times. At one of his curtain calls, Mr. Battistini appeared with Mr. Cotogni, who traveled from Warsaw from St. Petersburg, where he is a professor at the Conservatory. Although Mr. Battistini is not the pupil of Mr. Cotogni, he profited nonetheless from his advice."


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> From what I gathered in the book about Battistini, his low notes were always a weakness (he was aware of it) and there were many who thought that he was possibly a tenor during his lifetime. He was capable of pianissimo high A flats and As so I believe what we have with Battistini is a baritenor who fortunately for all of us chose to sing as a baritone.
> 
> I would cut off one of my arms to coach with Cotogni :lol: he was Battistini's predecessor and certainly a friend and resource, but it was Persichini who gave Battistini his vocal technique. From the book:
> 
> "The names of many voice professors have been linked to Battistini: for example, Alessandro Orsini, Augusto Rotoli, Eugenio Terziani, and Venceslao Persichini. Probably not all of them were linked to him. The addition of the great baritone Cotogni to the list, as found in _The Levik Memoirs_, makes one wonder how many lessons and what degree of coaching in a role qualifies someone to be regarded as a singer's teacher. As a contemporary press notice reveals: "After the performance [of Don Giovani, Battistini] was called back more than twenty times. At one of his curtain calls, Mr. Battistini appeared with Mr. Cotogni, who traveled from Warsaw from St. Petersburg, where he is a professor at the Conservatory. Although Mr. Battistini is not the pupil of Mr. Cotogni, he profited nonetheless from his advice."


That's really interesting - thanks for sharing!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Well finally having istened to them both, I came down in favour of De Luca. I wouldn't say Ruffo "roars", but he is realtively inexpressive, where De Luca finds more light and shade. I enjoyed both though.


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