# SS 16.11.13 - Bruckner #8



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

*Anton Bruckner (1824 - 1896)*

Symphony #8 in C minor 

1. Allegro moderato
2. Scherzo: Allegro moderato
3. Adagio: Feierlich langsam; doch nicht schleppend
4. Finale: Feierlich, nicht schnell
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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

This Saturday I'm going to listen to:

View attachment 28546


Otto Klemperer & The Cologne Radio Symphony Orcherstra
Live From 1957
(It's been a while since I've heard this but from what I remember it was pretty smoking. His studio rendition comes in at 84 minutes while this one only takes 71 minutes which is among the quickest recordings on record of this particular symphony)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Tennstedt/London Philharmonic recording of the Nowak 1890 edition.

The Klemperer above is of the same version, for those interested.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

This was my introduction to Bruckner so I cannot help but feel a little nostalgic.

Unusually, I will not be listening to a Tennstedt recording in this Saturday Symphony. I have his live recording on the LPO Label on my iPod at work (Apple Lossless codec naturally) and have listened to this recording a significant number of times. Time to have a break and listen to a different version before burnout sets in.

I am going to be greedy and start listening tonight and pick four versions to spread over the day and a half :devil:

View attachment 28550

This was the first recording of a Bruckner composition that I had ever listened to and it left a very strong impression on me of both the composer and the conductor. Revisiting this is going to be very enjoyable.

View attachment 28551

Celibidache has become one of my favourite Bruckner conductors. I have only listened to this recording once so any excuse to give another listen is most welcome.

View attachment 28552

I haven't listened to this recording as yet, but I love Kubelik's recording of Bruckner's Ninth so I am looking forward to listening to this.

and finally:
View attachment 28553

I haven't listened to this recording of Bruckner Eighth for a while so, just as with the Wand it will be nice revisit the piece.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Skrowaczewski and the Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra. Pretty up there for me.


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## Keith (Nov 8, 2013)

The 1958 recording on EMI by Herbert Von Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic for me.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I got two recordings of this from the library, Gunter Wand and Pierre Boulez. The Boulez is faster, the symphony fits on one CD, but the Wand needs two CDs. I just got home, so I'll listen later.

I own no Bruckner myself, I have never understood or liked Bruckner. But admittedly I haven't listened to much, I haven't given Bruckner a chance to be liked or understood. Let's see what happens after listening to #8


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

senza sordino said:


> I got two recordings of this from the library, Gunter Wand and Pierre Boulez. The Boulez is faster, the symphony fits on one CD, but the Wand needs two CDs. I just got home, so I'll listen later.
> 
> I own no Bruckner myself, I have never understood or liked Bruckner. But admittedly I haven't listened to much, I haven't given Bruckner a chance to be liked or understood. Let's see what happens after listening to #8


Great choice with the Wand recording. Start with that... you might not need to hear the other, although I've heard Boulez's 8th is great as well. I hope you can pierce Bruckner's veil. He's one of the greatest symphonist of all time. 
:tiphat:


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

O.K.: arriving late- but a quick inventory reveals these versions...
Furtwängler-Vienna
Tintner-NSO Ireland
Böhm-Vienna
Karajan-Berlin (not the Vienna one that's praised to the skies)
Solti-Chicago

Eh, I'll make up my mind later... and I'll listen to more than one.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

I have Gunter Wand on CD. Digital Concert Hall has two versions : One with Zubin Mehta and one with Christial Thielemann. Don't know too much about Christian, so I pick it. The band you must know already


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Gonna choose the original version, RSNO conducted by Tintner, to listen to today. It was the first version of Bruckner 8 that I heard and I've always preferred it to the usually-heard 1890 version.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Karajan's earliest BPO is the slowest and gauntlets of his three versions but absolutely gripping.
His later VPO is magnificent in every way.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Karajan's earliest BPO is the slowest and gauntlets of his three versions but absolutely gripping.
His later VPO is magnificent in every way.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Haitink 1981 & Furtwängler 1944 for me, in the main, and honorable mention to Wand and Celibidache/EMI. 

I currently also have Inbal/Frankfurt (the symphony´s original version, but not one of the best in Inbal´s series), Wand/Köln, Wand/Hamburg, Mravinsky. 

Skipped Knappertsbusch, Svetlanov, Jochum/EMI, Klemperer live on Nuova Era, early Karajan/BPO, Paita, Tintner, Böhm/WPO, Tennstedt/EMI, Paternostro. Well, taste varies . Skipping Jochum/DG was a mistake, I´ll be buying the DG set again, this time on CD.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

My favorite of the ones I have are BPO Wand, 1949 Furtwängler, EMI Celibidache, 2005 Haitink and Kubelik. Will put one of them on today if I can claim a spot in the living room :tiphat:


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> Haitink 1981 & Furtwängler 1944 for me, in the main, and honorary mention to Wand and Celibidache/EMI.
> 
> I currently also have Inbal/Frankfurt (the symphony´s original version, but not one of the best in Inbal´s series), Wand/Köln, Wand/Hamburg, Mravinsky.
> 
> Skipped Knappertsbusch, Svetlanov, Jochum/EMI, Klemperer live on Nuova Era, early Karajan/BPO, Paita, Tintner, Böhm/WPO, Tennstedt/EMI, Paternostro. Well, taste varies .* Skipping Jochum/DG was a mistake, I´ll be buying the DG set again, this time on CD.*


Great realization. Jochum's (DG) set is beautiful.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

AClockworkOrange said:


> View attachment 28552
> 
> I haven't listened to this recording as yet, but I love Kubelik's recording of Bruckner's Ninth so I am looking forward to listening to this.


Well I have given this recording under the baton of Rafael Kubelik a listen and overall I enjoyed it very much. It hasn't displaced my preferred recordings (Wand, Furtwangler, Celibidache and Tennstedt) but I prefer it to Karajan's Berlin & Vienna recordings as well as Klemperer's (sadly cut) Philharmonia recording.

I must admit, you have made me curious about the 1957 Cologne Radio Symphony Orcherstra recording realdealblues. Is it in cut form as per the later EMI recording?


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm on the slow movement now, and the descending chords on strings with harp accompaniment is absolutely one of the most beautiful passages in all of music, along with the rising strings leading up to it.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Ill definitely give this a listen tomorrow. As I said under current listening, I love this particular work.


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## Bas (Jul 24, 2012)

Celibidache, Muncher Philharmoniker, EMI


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

I'll listen to what I have with me right now - Barenboim with the Berlin Philharmonic.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

AClockworkOrange said:


> I must admit, you have made me curious about the 1957 Cologne Radio Symphony Orcherstra recording realdealblues. Is it in cut form as per the later EMI recording?


It is not cut. Here's a review I found on Classicalsource.com that sums it up better than I can.

"Although Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) recorded the Adagio of Bruckner's Eighth Symphony as long ago as 1924, it took until 1970 for him make a commercial recording of the full symphony. The 1970 performance, recorded by EMI, did not find the then 85-year-old conductor at his best, not least because of his decision to cut some 240 bars of music from the finale. This Medici Masters issue from 13 years earlier is welcome in that it provides a Klemperer performance of the symphony which is not only complete but goes some way to demonstrating why he is considered one of the great conductors of the last century.

Klemperer's interpretation of the symphony's first half is as fine as any available. From the outset, he brings to the music a sense of forward momentum and tension. The climaxes of the first movement have an intensity and grandeur which is engulfing, but Klemperer also finds mystery when instruments such as oboe, horns and Wagner tubas are heard against _tremolando_ strings. The scherzo is even better, if perhaps faster than the composer intended (the marking is Allegro moderato) but nevertheless electrifying, and with the trio slow, intense and beautiful. The Cologne Radio Symphony Orchestra, formed in 1947, seems more polished here than when recording the symphony under Günter Wand in 1979.

The performance of the second half of the symphony is not quite on the same level. The Adagio starts well, the phrasing of the strings in the opening paragraphs being slow and expressive. However, the underlying tension occasionally lapses after this, and from 9'00" the flow is subject to a series of tempo changes - mainly _accelerando_s - which undermine the movement's sense of inevitability. Although Klemperer takes his time for the wonderful coda, the Adagio as a whole takes just over 22 minutes, one of the quicker traversals.

Similar tempo fluctuations affect the finale. Unlike Furtwängler's organic approach to tempo in this work, Klemperer's gear-changes seem mechanical and arbitrary. An example is at bar 183 (6'05") and subsequent slowing for the flute chords at bar 221. None of these changes are marked in the Nowak edition of the score that Klemperer is annotated as using. They can, however, be traced back to the discredited first edition of the symphony, prepared by Franz Schalk and published by Haslinger-Schlesinger-Lienau in 1892. In this publication, the same passage is marked with instructions such as "Erstes Zeitmass", "poco acel.", "rit.", "a tempo" and "etwas zurückhaltend". Due to the lack of evidence that these indications were authorised by Bruckner, they were expunged from both the Haas and Nowak editions of the symphony.

It would be interesting to know whether Klemperer carried over the 'suspect' instructions to Nowak's edition or whether they were irrevocably absorbed into his conception of the symphony from the decades when it was the only score available. Either way, this volatile approach to tempo-management is at odds with Klemperer's usual objective style, and ultimately he seems less involved in the finale than the earlier movements.

The mono sound (not designated as such in the presentation) has considerable presence, a wide dynamic range and a relatively low level of tape hiss. The lack of audience noise suggests a closed recording session. Had the performance maintained the level of the first two movements, this would have been something special, but it nonetheless represents a fascinating snapshot of Klemperer conducting Bruckner on this particular day in 1957."

Overall, I personally really enjoyed hearing this recording again. This is probably my 3rd favorite Bruckner symphony. I don't have a definitive recording in mind for this Symphony yet but I enjoyed this one. As mentioned in the review, I also found the Mono Sound very good.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

realdealblues said:


> It is not cut. Here's a review I found on Classicalsource.com that sums it up better than I can.
> 
> "Although Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) recorded the Adagio of Bruckner's Eighth Symphony as long ago as 1924, it took until 1970 for him make a commercial recording of the full symphony. The 1970 performance, recorded by EMI, did not find the then 85-year-old conductor at his best, not least because of his decision to cut some 240 bars of music from the finale. This Medici Masters issue from 13 years earlier is welcome in that it provides a Klemperer performance of the symphony which is not only complete but goes some way to demonstrating why he is considered one of the great conductors of the last century.
> 
> ...


Thank you Realdealblues, I haven't across this website before.

It is an interesting review and I particularly like how it is structured.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I am in the middle of my third listen to this symphony this week. I have two recordings borrowed from my library: Gunter Wand and Pierre Boulez. I can't say which I prefer, because I still don't know this symphony. I've never given Bruckner much of a chance before this week. 

My mother introduced me to the world of classical music, and she disliked Bruckner, therefore, so must I. Funny how after all these years, it's still difficult to get away from the influence of our parents. 

Anyway, as I listen to this symphony, I quite like it. It isn't the brooding stodgy mess my mother described his music as. I still like my mother even if she was wrong about Bruckner.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

maestro267 said:


> I'm on the slow movement now, and the descending chords on strings with harp accompaniment is absolutely one of the most beautiful passages in all of music, along with the rising strings leading up to it.


I completely and utterly agree -- as a result, I feel almost _obligated_ to bump this thread.


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

In my opinion, this is the best "modern" recording of Bruckner's 8th:
Bernard Haitink, Dresdner Staatskapelle (2002)









I don't own the CD, which is quite expensive, but it is available on Spotify.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Originally Posted by maestro267
> 
> I'm on the slow movement now, and the descending chords on strings with harp accompaniment is absolutely one of the most beautiful passages in all of music, along with the rising strings leading up to it.
> 
> Skilmarilion: I completely and utterly agree -- as a result, I feel almost obligated to bump this thread.


That passage _is_ breath-takingly gorgeous.

I know it may be sacriledge to say, but when I listen to the Eighth, I listen to the two last movements; which to me really are Bruckner at his most beautiful and grand (outside the opening of the _Romantic Symphony_).


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

*Herbert Von Karajan / Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra 1989* I'm always stunned by the two last movements, I agree with Marschallin Blair, they are Bruckner at his most most grandly beautiful. (along with the 1st movement of #9, I had to throw that in there!)

A wonderful reading it is, as authoritative as its predecessors and every bit as well played but somehow more profound, more humane, more lovable if that is a permissible attribute of an interpretation of this Everest among symphonies. […] It is the sense of the music being in the hearts and minds and collective unconscious of Karajan and every one of the hundred and more players that gives this performance its particular charisma and appeal.
*Richard Osborne, Gramophone, October 1989*

There is an elemental power in this interpretation, with Karajan matching Bruckners visionary ecstasy in the sublime Adagio and crowning the whole edifice with a truly magnificent account of the finale. 
*Michael Kennedy, Daily Telegraph, 2.9.1989*


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