# Sonata/Sonata Rondo + Fantasia



## Jord

I've only just heard about Sonata Rondo, i understand Sonata form, and i understand Rondo, but what the hell is Sonata Rondo? 

also, what is a Fantasia? I read on the internet it's a piece based on improvisation, so a piece that doesn't conform to any other defined structure could be classed as a Fantasia?


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## Ramako

Sonata rondo is a particular type of sonata form made to be more rondoish. Normal sonata could be characterised as

A B (exposition) C (development) A B (recap)

Sonata rondo would be

A B (exposition) A (at the beginning of development, then) C (as before) A B (recap) A (coda)

so you end up with ABACABA which is essentially a rondo form. This is just a kind of example really, and it would be best to listen to a few to get the idea. The last movement of Haydn's 101st symphony is quite famous.

Fantasia form isn't a proper form. The first movement of the moonlight sonata is 'quasi una fantasia'. It is based on improvisation, so the structure is supposed to sound improvised. A piece which doesn't conform to any set form - but sounds structured wouldn't be in fantasia form - because it sounds orderly. Fantasia form is supposed to be, wait for it, fantastic (in the sense of like a fantasy). It isn't, like many things, well-defined.


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## Jord

Ramako said:


> Sonata rondo is a particular type of sonata form made to be more rondoish. Normal sonata could be characterised as
> 
> A B (exposition) C (development) A B (recap)
> 
> Sonata rondo would be
> 
> A B (exposition) A (at the beginning of development, then) C (as before) A B (recap) A (coda)
> 
> so you end up with ABACABA which is essentially a rondo form. This is just a kind of example really, and it would be best to listen to a few to get the idea. The last movement of Haydn's 101st symphony is quite famous.
> 
> Fantasia form isn't a proper form. The first movement of the moonlight sonata is 'quasi una fantasia'. It is based on improvisation, so the structure is supposed to sound improvised. A piece which doesn't conform to any set form - but sounds structured wouldn't be in fantasia form - because it sounds orderly. Fantasia form is supposed to be, wait for it, fantastic (in the sense of like a fantasy). It isn't, like many things, well-defined.


Thank you


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## Jord

Ramako said:


> Sonata rondo is a particular type of sonata form made to be more rondoish. Normal sonata could be characterised as
> 
> A B (exposition) C (development) A B (recap)
> 
> Sonata rondo would be
> 
> A B (exposition) A (at the beginning of development, then) C (as before) A B (recap) A (coda)
> 
> so you end up with ABACABA which is essentially a rondo form. This is just a kind of example really, and it would be best to listen to a few to get the idea. The last movement of Haydn's 101st symphony is quite famous.
> 
> Fantasia form isn't a proper form. The first movement of the moonlight sonata is 'quasi una fantasia'. It is based on improvisation, so the structure is supposed to sound improvised. A piece which doesn't conform to any set form - but sounds structured wouldn't be in fantasia form - because it sounds orderly. Fantasia form is supposed to be, wait for it, fantastic (in the sense of like a fantasy). It isn't, like many things, well-defined.


Thank you


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