# Atonal String Quartets



## neoshredder

For whatever reason, I really think Atonal music is at its best with String Quartets. Post some of your favorite atonal string quartets. I already know about both Ligeti's String Quartets btw and that is why I want to know more.


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## violadude

Schnittke's 1st and 4th are completely atonal, I believe. 2nd and 3rd are moments of atonality mixed with tonality.
Schoenberg's 3rd and 4th are both 12 tone
Berg's Lyric Suite
Webern's pieces for string quartet, 5 movements, 6 bagatelles, and two other pieces with the name string quartet
Gubaidulina's 4 string quartets (and string trio while you're at it).
Wolfgang Rihm wrote 13 string quartets, I think most of them are atonal.
Elliot Carter's string quartets
Maxwell Davies' "Naxos" string quartets, I have trouble telling if they are truly atonal or just have enough dissonance to sound as such, but they are worth a listen.
Kurtag wrote a number of atonal string quartets. One titled merely, "string quartet", "Mikroludien for string quartet" and "Officium Breve In Memoriam Andreae Szervanszky."
Valentin Silvestrov wrote a couple good string quartets. The 2nd one definately has atonal moments. Not sure about the first one, but it's uber cool anyway.
Lutoslawski's string quartet


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## norman bates

Ruth Crawford Seeger


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## Head_case

neoshredder said:


> For whatever reason, I really think Atonal music is at its best with String Quartets. Post some of your favorite atonal string quartets. I already know about both Ligeti's String Quartets btw and that is why I want to know more.


Yes...at least, atonal music is certainly no worse with string quartets, than other forms 

Personally, I find it more interesting with solo flute music, not that there is much in terms of recorded repertoire. Like Gorecki's works, 'Three Diagrams', or 'For Lil'Ann'. The lack of a tonal centre can create a headache for any headcase if you're trying to get into playing music like this. I feel like I need a double magnification manuscript to see all the accidentals. There are more accidentals on the sheet music than notes lol.

Anyway, back to the string quartet. Don't forget Karel Husa's famous 3rd/4th string quartet. What? You've never heard of Husa? Pulitzer Prize winner back in the post-war era.

In skool, I never realised Lutoslawski and Penderecki's scrapings, texturised concretions of the string quartet format were specifically atonal; Penderecki described his work as aleatory elements fusing together. But isn't this what happens when equestrian excrement attracts deft winged vectors? That probably turned me off a lot of this kind of music then. It wasn't as 'accessible' as others (below).

Karol Rathaus is strongly rooted in the atonal tradition. Rather intense, however highly emotional. No. V is my least favourite. It seems to verge on the dodecaphonic mould too far for my taste but it's still hypnotically addictive. The 1931 Crawford-Seeger is definitely an american favourite although for chamber work, Katherine Hoover's inventiveness is alluringly attractive (she combines both atonal and tonal elements).

Gubaidulina...I wish I could love more than I do. Maybe outdone by Joanna Bruzdowicz's more interesting Cantus Aeternus and her intense yet smaller number of string quartets [premiered by the Varsovia Quartet].

Wolfgang Rihm...is earnestly irritating for me! His music is very intense. I do like him, although mostly in agitated moderation. The American Carter, seems to somehow dominate the lips of everyone who listens to atonal music's lips, a little like the way Sheryl Crow and loud American advertising, dwarfed their quieter Canadian neighbours. Murray Schafer's string quartet cycle, with its strongly atonal elements, and even, lacking the tonal centre to extremes - i.e. in no individual score for each part..!, is probably one of my favourite Canadian composers in this mode, although he is way more eclectic - by the time he reaches the string quartet No. VII, the inclusion of voice rather shocked me. One of his string quartets took the Honegger Prix, and another, the Glenn Gould Prize. His string quartets have unusual references: 'Parting wid horse's mane', which I suppose is better than "defending the strait of St Lawrence against the colonial tonal masters".

For the Naxos lovers, Ge Gan Ru's 'The Fall of Baghdad" string quartets also floats your boat if you're in the Schoenberg Titanic.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Apart from Carter's string quartets you also have his wonderful _Fragment I_


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

And don't forget the awesome string quartets of Brian Ferneyhough. Here's the first movement of his String Quartet no. 3:


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## Renaissance

I love Per Nørgård's quartets


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Apart from Carter's string quartets you also have his wonderful _Fragment I_


Carter is cooooolll!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

The one I prefer






It touches my soul very deeply. When you listen to this, you discover Martin, the real one

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^Even though it makes use of lots of chromaticism, technically that movement is tonal. It's the last movement of that quartet which was actually the first truly atonal piece ever to be written.


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## starthrower

I don't know if they're atonal or not? Maybe a combination? But I like Nancarrow's quartets nos. 1 & 3. You can listen to them on YouTube, and there's a good recording by the Arditti Quartet on the Wergo label.
http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=583115

I find the Carter quartets to be some tough listening. I bought a used copy of 1 & 2 by the Composer's Quartet.

As far as Ligeti is concerned, I find his chamber music easier to enjoy than some of the orchestral works. The Clear Or Cloudy box on DG has a great selection of both.

I have quite a bit of Schoenberg's music, but I've never heard the quartets. I suppose the Lasalle recordings on the 4 disc Brilliant Classics set is the one to get? Also includes the Berg, and Webern quartets.
http://www.amazon.com/Schoenberg-Berg-Webern-String-Quartets/dp/B001MUJSXW


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## Vaneyes

Berio, Carter, Dutilleux, Gubaidulina, Hindemith, Schnittke, Schoenberg.

Some of the most interesting are blends of the two idioms, for instance, Arnold, Bartok, Britten, Enescu, Ginastera, Janacek, Myaskovsky, Rawsthorne, Shostakovich, Walton.


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> ^Even though it makes use of lots of chromaticism, technically that movement is tonal. It's the last movement of that quartet which was actually the first truly atonal piece ever to be written.


I know.

Martin


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## Guest

Xenakis' "Tetras" is about as atonal as it gets!





 (part 1)

(part 2--if you're still watching/listening!)


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## Manxfeeder

starthrower;327603
I have quite a bit of Schoenberg's music said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Schoenberg-Berg-Webern-String-Quartets/dp/B001MUJSXW[/URL]


I've agonized about this, and to my ears, I prefer the Leipzig Quartet. Just my opinion, though.


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## Sid James

*Carter's first quaret *is easily amongst my favourites of all time. He wrote it in the Arizona desert and it has this vast, craggy, untamed quality. The jagged cello solo 'theme' that starts it goes right through the work, so even though this is very 'atonal,' you miss nothing of the thematic unity that many listeners love in string quartets from Beethoven to Bartok.

I do like a number of the 'blending' tonal with 'atonal' that Vaneyes mentions. Of course, many things mix here, from various individual 'takes' on serialism to polytonality, bitonality, microtonal, and so on.

Some I would add to the current 'mix:'

- *Australians Peter Sculthorpe *(who innovated more in sonority than tonality - eg. use of glissandos and vivid colours) and also *Nigel Westlake *and *Carl Vine *(they bring rhythms of rock, jazz and also things like pentatonic scale into the genre).

- *Benjamin Lees *- Naxos has started recording the SQs of the late American composer, I esp. like his *5th quartet *that reminds me in parts of Messiaen (eg. the birdsong) and the thrusting rhythms of Bartok and Shostakovich

- *Michael Tippett's 4th quartet *is quite dissonant in parts, probably 'atonal,' but at the end comes 'home' to a quote from Beethoven's 'Grosse Fuge.' Beethoven was Tippett's compositional idol, but I like Tippett's 3rd quartet the most, which sounds more 'tonal' than the 4th, more serene and calm, it has a strong feel of the English landscape.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Benjamin Britten wrote three numbered quartets, plus a several other SQ type works/early pieces.


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## jurianbai

Surely there are some atonal sq that I like, eventough I am not priority them in my listening menu.
Schoenberg is one of the favorite in this area.
the list of atonal (or at least I think it is atonal) that I like:

Zemlinsky
Ligetti .. yes they are extremely creative and imaginative
Ernst Toch
Carter
Draeseke
Apostel (in the same disc with Zemlinsky)
JOhn McCabe
Schnittke
Peteris Vasks

here composers that creatively done something in string quartet, but I can only appreciate for once or twice, then hardly have the appetite to repeat it again:

Enescu
Rihm
Milhaud
Roger Session
Holmboe
Weinberg


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## Head_case

Of the first list, Ernest Toch & John McCabe are really engaging me. I only have 4 of Toch's substantial cycle, by the poorly recorded Verdi & Buchburger Quartets. The Buchberger seem more convincing than the Verdi to my ears for intonation and dynamics. The recording quality ...typical of CPO ...neither the best, nor the worse, but somewhat '90's vintage'. However the cycle is broken and now slowly sinking into being out of print (get it whilst you can folks! ) 

As for the excellent McCabe works - the Irish Vanbrugh Quartet do a very compelling reading. I really treasure this disc. His flute works are splendid indeed. 

Ligeti's string quartets has more or less hit everyone's mainstream, since the excellent recording on Naxos. Sadly Schnittke ... still remains exorbitantly expensive for the definitive Kronos Quartet set after all these years. The Borodin Quartet version is very good too. 

If anyone else knows of good versions, I'm on the prowl  


As for the B list....hmmm...yes..>Enescu's two string quartets are very difficult, aren't they? 

I think I mentioned before, about the excellently recorded Ad Libitum Quartet on Naxos - this is probably the preferred modern reading, which was much better than the truly miserable Olympia recording. The CPO Athenaeum-Enesco Quatuor are truly dedicated phrasers, however the recording is rather thin and a tad fierce. 

What surprises me, is that I never considered his G major (Quartet No.II) atonal. One reason why his string quartets are rarely performed, or even recorded, is that they are incredibly long works for the genre! Even more taxing in live performances, and very intense to play. Like Cesar Franck, who used the cyclical principle (recyclage lol), reintegrating early thematic material and revisiting it, regenerating it, creates a rather laborious experience unless you're already a musician's musician, or in this case, an extreme headcase of a string quartet listener. Like many musicians, who use the BACH or the DSCH motif, Enescu uses the BACH motif in his work, integrated beautifully into Romanian folk music. 

Having said as much, I understand why people don't like it on listening. It's hardcore string quartet stuff, incredibly well written, but hard to get into.

The Danel Quatuor are now on Volume VI of the Weinberg Quartet series! Out at the end of this month! Do buy and tell  

I personally don't get Weinberg, having 4 discs of his string quartets. Some moments sparkle, and the rest seem to run on drearily tediously monotonously long.


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## norman bates

Head_case said:


> As for the excellent McCabe works - the Irish Vanbrugh Quartet do a very compelling reading. I really treasure this disc. His flute works are splendid indeed.


i'm curious about this, what are the flute works you are talking about?


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## Head_case

This one:

http://www.chesternovello.com/default.aspx?TabId=2432&State_3041=2&workId_3041=7831

His flute concerto is available on CD:

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx...be:+Of+Time+and+the+River;+Flute+Concerto.htm

sadly, it's twinned with one of those horrible symphony things


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## norman bates

thank you


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## jurianbai

aha..you are right, the Enescu is not atonal. I almost labelled everything difficult as atonal lol.
I have the same recording Quatuor Athenaeum, I think you are right , difficult is the word.

Then I should mentioned Karl Weigl, no.1 and no.5 by Artist Quartet is more easier to appreciate.
Daniel Jones, already mentioned before, is also nice from UK.

and Arthur Lourie is maybe close to B-list.


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## Toddlertoddy

Does Bartok count as atonal?

Here's Stravinsky's only piece for string quartet (I think)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Bartók isn't atonal. It's just easy tonal to my ears.


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## Renaissance

Bartok and Stravinsky are both tonal. Stravinsky also composed in serial and polytonal procedures.


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## Andreas

Berg's quartet op.3 has a special place in my heart. I knew his piano sonata and loved its rapturous chromaticism. I had hoped the string quartet would be somewhat like that, but it turned out to be more atonal than I could stomach at the time. Eventually, though, the quartet really helped me develop a taste for atonal music.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Renaissance said:


> Bartok and Stravinsky are both tonal. Stravinsky also composed in serial and polytonal procedures.


Stravinsky's serial works aren't _really_ that tonal.


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## neoshredder

You ain't cool unless you listen to atonal music.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Like Xenakis, well beyond "atonal"


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## Jeremy Marchant

Surprised noone's mentioned this


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## Toddlertoddy

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Stravinsky's serial works aren't _really_ that tonal.


It's like a mixture of diatonic harmony and serialism.


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## Head_case

Toddlertoddy said:


> It's like a mixture of diatonic harmony and serialism.


'Neoclassicism'.

This movement took the post-tonal world in a completely different direction from the atonality of the exhausting Teutonic-Wiener-Axis and dominant Viennese schools. From Stravinsky's perspective, there was no interest in mimicking a language which was neither cultural appropriate, nor acceptable for his own artistic intent.

Perhaps this thread falsely dichotomises string quartets too loosely into atonal vs tonal: most of us have a vague or loose grasp of the generalisation without going too far about thinking in pure either/or categories.

The atonal movement is a tiny fraction of the string quartet oeuvre's development in the 21st century. Neoclassicism is fascinating, and has its own school of thought and adherents.

In painting, there are many movements to choose from; baroque; rococco; renaissance; pre-raphaelite, expressionist etc. It's great to dab into something of each, to explore. Harder perhaps, to be definitive in taste, about one specific era, without tasting others. I wonder if this is the same analogy for string quartets?

It's not that atonal quartets are difficult; the language has evolved ...into abstraction ...of something ...of something ..musical...? Less of that painterly baroque quality, but a refinement....a modern one...into another direction, which illuminates music, in a way which we have never heard before. Well, at least that's my idea for trying out new stuff - atonal and beyond 
Again, in its purity, I think I tend to shy away from the extremes, although I do love its rhythmic motoric precision. It really reinvented the baroque music form - or 'dance' music, which baroque essentially was. Time for a neoclassical string quartet threads everyone?


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