# Handel Op6 Concerti Grossi



## Llyranor

Hi,

I am currently in search of a new Op6 recording. I have the one with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, which I quite like, but it doesn't blow me away. Since they modern instruments, and I have been trying to explore HIP Baroque recently, that'd be more what I'd be looking into. So, brisk tempos, lively performances, but without being excessively rushed. Any recommendations? The two I'm presently eyeing are Pinnock and Manze.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

As you have already mentioned Trevor Pinnock and The English Concert, go for that version. Excellent throughout. I endorse it. I have several other period instrument versions, too.


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## neoshredder

Yeah I really like Trevor Pinnock's versions. Also you might like Corelli's Concerti Grossi Op.6 from Trevor Pinnock.


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## Ukko

I haven't heard anything from Manze that was less than excellent.


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## joen_cph

Max Pommer: hypnotic, airy, delicious. 

For a more traditional view, the old Marriner/Academy St. Martin.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I've heard this is quite good:


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## Itullian

that's the weirdest cover i ever saw.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Itullian said:


> that's the weirdest cover i ever saw.


Yeah Australia's ABC Classics label does have some pretty weird cd covers!


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## Llyranor

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I've heard this is quite good:


Okay, I looked up some youtube samples for this and found the 12th. This is amazing! The 2nd movement/allegro is so full of energy. This is the kind of excitement I am looking for. After listening to the amazon samples of the same movement of both Manze and Pinnock, I think I am leaning more towards Dyer. Any other recommendations that captures this energy, or should I just bite?

(1:37 in the video)


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## neoshredder

Try I Musici as well. They got a great sound. But maybe you got a winner there.


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## Ukko

Itullian said:


> that's the weirdest cover i ever saw.


Well, incongruous. Good quadriceps. From the kick?


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## neoshredder

Did you pull the trigger?


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## Vaneyes

Llyranor said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently in search of a new Op6 recording. I have the one with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, which I quite like, but it doesn't blow me away. Since they modern instruments, and I have been trying to explore HIP Baroque recently, that'd be more what I'd be looking into. So, brisk tempos, lively performances, but without being excessively rushed. Any recommendations? The two I'm presently eyeing are Pinnock and Manze.


Don't give up on modern instruments, my favorite being Guildhall String Ensemble.


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## Llyranor

Well, anyway, I ordered the Dyer one. Thanks for the suggestions!


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## neoshredder

Congratulations on your purchase. Hope you really enjoy it.


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## millionrainbows

I think the reason I am less than pleased with the Orpheus version is because essentially, Handel's music itself is utter crap. This powder-wigged dilettante's relentless repetition of the same worn-out tonal formulas is not redeemable, no matter who plays it.


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## neoshredder

millionrainbows said:


> I think the reason I am less than pleased with the Orpheus version is because essentially, Handel's music itself is utter crap. This powder-wigged dilettante's relentless repetition of the same worn-out tonal formulas is not redeemable, no matter who plays it.


I think I see now why they didn't like you on the other forum.


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## Ukko

neoshredder said:


> I think I see now why they didn't like you on the other forum.


Hah  Pretty much Standard Texan; strongly held opinions, usually wrong. At least that's what I was told in Colorado bars.


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## neoshredder

Which one are you talking to?


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## Ukko

neoshredder said:


> Which one are you talking to?


 My target was _million_.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Yay for Aussie musicians!


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> I think the reason I am less than pleased with the Orpheus version is because essentially, Handel's music itself is utter crap. This powder-wigged dilettante's relentless repetition of the same worn-out tonal formulas is not redeemable, no matter who plays it.


It's too bad that so many of the world's finest musicians have wasted their time performing and recording his music. They should have consulted with you, first.


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## KRoad

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I've heard this is quite good:


This looks very gay to me: Is it politically correct and musically kosher to purchase a CD with such a cover in polite company?
I realise that Handel was probably gay, but really, there ARE limits...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

KRoad said:


> This looks very gay to me: Is it politically correct and musically kosher to purchase a CD with such a cover in polite company?
> I realise that Handel was probably gay, but really, there ARE limits...


That's how you get CDs in my country.


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## bigshot

Is that Paul in the photo?


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## Guest

KRoad said:


> This looks very gay to me: Is it politically correct and musically kosher to purchase a CD with such a cover in polite company?
> I realise that Handel was probably gay, but really, there ARE limits...


Really? Are you 12? Or are you being facetious?


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## KRoad

Kontrapunctus said:


> Really? Are you 12? Or are you being facetious?


Goodness, gracious me, no. Simply stating a concern as a member of the moral majority. Next, it will be Sophie Mutter exposing even more of her breasts - and then, where will the world be, Kontrapuntas?


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## Ukko

KRoad said:


> Goodness, gracious me, no. Simply stating a concern as a member of the moral majority. Next, it will be Sophie Mutter exposing even more of her breasts - and then, where will the world be, Kontrapuntas?


Surely a better place.


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## joen_cph

> Is that Paul in the photo?


Concerning this - for a moment I thought you were referring to the looks and political career of_ Paul Ryan_
- until the performers were checked out  ...


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## KRoad

But we're NOT talking mere breasts here, Hilltroll72. I refer to Paul's clenched buttocks and bulging thighs as he falls Christ like into an abyss of suggested licentiousness. Then there's the pose he assumes in the second image! I blush... and yet, I feel George might just have approved.

Trevor Pinnock interpretations are generally well worth a listen.


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## neoshredder

KRoad said:


> But we're NOT talking mere breasts here, Hilltroll72. I refer to Paul's clenched buttocks and bulging thighs as he falls Christ like into an abyss of suggested licentiousness. Then there's the pose he assumes in the second image! I blush... and yet, I feel George might just have approved.
> 
> Trevor Pinnock interpretations are generally well worth a listen.


Yeah not the most pleasant photograph but I'm sure it attracted some people to buy it. lol I see nothing wrong with it. Btw, I think Manze has the best version.


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## Ukko

KRoad said:


> But we're NOT talking mere breasts here, Hilltroll72. I refer to Paul's clenched buttocks and bulging thighs as he falls Christ like into an abyss of suggested licentiousness. Then there's the pose he assumes in the second image! I blush... and yet, I feel George might just have approved.
> 
> Trevor Pinnock interpretations are generally well worth a listen.


Sorry, _KRoad_, I am apparently blind to that sort of stimuli. And if _Alma_ were still around, he would object to your cavalier dismissal of breasts. Um, how did the drift get us to this shoal, anyway?


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## KRoad

Hilltroll72 said:


> Um, how did the drift get us to this shoal, anyway?


Good question.. I'm still trying to get a Handel on that myself.


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## Llyranor

Heh, since this got updated, I'll mention that since obtaining the Dyer CDs, I am very happy with them. Dynamic exciting performances without being too frenetic (though sometimes I wish it would be!). Highly recommended.


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## candi

I'm going to make the plunge and get the recording by Avison. I've already have their Corelli Op6, so let's match the set for Handel's.

I've listened to half a dozen recordings via utube, and like the recording quality of Avison, though I _reall_ like the oboes in Pinnock's. I did like Manze's but the recording didn't seem as sharp as Avison. They're all good, but i only want 1 version.


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## joen_cph

Funnily, I was listening to Pommer´s recording of opus 3 when seeing this. Just as delightful as his opus 6.


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## curio

Il Giardino Armonico's is light years ahead of any other recording.


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## Pugg

curio said:


> Il Giardino Armonico's is light years ahead of any other recording.


matter of preference I think, welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


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## Taplow

Pugg said:


> matter of preference I think, welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


I agree with this. I absolutely love Il Giardino Armonico, at least their earlier work on the Vivaldi concertos. But their recording of the Op. 6 Concerti Grossi fell flat with me. Comparing it with my other recordings - the Pinnock, Egarr, and Gester - I might even prefer any of them over the IGA.

Regarding Paul Dyer ... I wasn't aware of this recording so thanks, ComposerOfAvantGarde, for bringing it to my attention. Looks like it could be worth a listen. I saw the Australian Brandenburg Orchestra in concert in 2000, the same year they released their scintillating CD of Vivaldi sacred works with Andreas Scholl. They have an infectious energy and enthusiasm for what they play, and obviously enjoy their jobs with a passion.

As for the cover, I thought it was funny. Men are also sexy, and it's about time an alternative to the norm was on display. I'm not quite sure what diving has to do with mid-18th century concertos, but way to go, Paul. Be proud!

:tiphat:


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## Pugg

Taplow said:


> I agree with this. I absolutely love Il Giardino Armonico, at least their earlier work on the Vivaldi concertos. But their recording of the Op. 6 Concerti Grossi fell flat with me. Comparing it with my other recordings - the Pinnock, Egarr, and Gester - I might even prefer any of them over the IGA.
> 
> *Regarding Paul Dyer *... I wasn't aware of this recording so thanks, ComposerOfAvantGarde, for bringing it to my attention. Looks like it could be worth a listen. I saw the Australian Brandenburg Orchestra in concert in 2000, the same year they released their scintillating CD of Vivaldi sacred works with Andreas Scholl. They have an infectious energy and enthusiasm for what they play, and obviously enjoy their jobs with a passion.
> 
> As for the cover, I thought it was funny. Men are also sexy, and it's about time an alternative to the norm was on display. I'm not quite sure what diving has to do with mid-18th century concertos, but way to go, Paul. Be proud!
> 
> :tiphat:


I do own that one.


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## JSBach85

curio said:


> Il Giardino Armonico's is light years ahead of any other recording.


While I do not completely agree I share your opinion. Up to now I only own two recordings: Il Giardino Armonico and Hogwood/Handel & Haydn Society that I prefer over Giardino, but is a personal preference:










I have listened others as well: Trevor Pinnock/The English Concert and Andrew Manze/Academy of Ancient Music. Other recording that has received very good reviews/awards is Pavlo Beznosiuk/The Avison Ensemble. Every recording mentioned plays on period instruments.


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## Josquin13

This is music that I have collected too many recordings of over the decades, as it's been difficult to find performances that are completely satisfying--that is, until recent years. Back in the 1980s & 90s, my first two purchases were by the Academy of St. Martin's in the Fields, led by Iona Brown (on Philips), and The English Concert, led by Trevor Pinnock. The ASMF are excellent musicians, but this music is too lushly romantic in their hands. It doesn't sound like Handel. (Though the Penquin Guide gave it a Rosette award.) Pinnock is fine too, leading performances that are warmly expressive & stylish, but again, I didn't get overly excited about his set either--though it was enlightening to first hear this music played on period instruments (& to realize that, yes, Handel does sound quite different on the old instruments). Then came Hogwood's Concerti Grossi, Op. 6, with the Handel & Haydn Society of Boston, which was highly praised by the Penquin Guide, who gave it a Rosette award (if memory serves): but when I finally bought Hogwood's set, I was slightly disappointed. I had expected Hogwood's recording would be 'the one', and while it was certainly very good, it didn't quite meet my expectations.

Then, I found myself returning to modern instruments, via the Guildhall Ensemble of London recordings on RCA, after having discovered their excellent set of Corelli 12 Concerti Grossi. Fortunately, I found these performances less romantic than the ASMF's set, and thought the musicians were excellent. Good stuff. Yet, I still didn't feel like I had heard these 12 concerti played with a sense of adventure, taste, verve, virtuosity, and imagination.

So, I next bought Andrew Manze's set with the Academy of Ancient Music, thinking that it would be the one. But again I was disappointed, as I disliked the overly dry Harmonia Mundi sound quality, finding the period strings were slightly grating as a result. Whatever the merits of Manze's performances, and there are some, I found that I never played the set--so I wouldn't recommend it.

Then, at last, I discovered two wonderful, lively period recordings, from Arte Dei Suonatori and Il Giardino Armonico, which offered very interesting, contrasting interpretations. First came Arte Dei Suonatori, led by Martin Gester: here finally was the anedote to the staid yet stylish performances of Pinnock and Hogwood, & indeed, I'd recommend Arte Dei Suonatori's Op. 6 recording unhesitatingly:

https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Conce...4&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=handel+arte+suonateri








Then came Il Giardino Armonico. For years, I'd been cautioned against this group by reviewers that said Antonini's interpretations were too radical and individualistic--i.e., "exaggerated" "unpleasant" "highly theatrical" etc., implying that the group was somehow doing Handel's music a gross disservice. I even heard one person derisively describe Il Giardino Armonico as "a garage band". As a result, I stayed away. Then, a couple of years ago, I read a very favorable review by Biberfan, and decided to take a chance. I waited until the price came down on Amazon (since it's OOP), and picked up a copy. After my first listen, to my surprise, I found that all the negative criticism wasn't even remotely accurate!, not in my view. These are wonderful, excellent performances, and I don't find them perversely radical at all:

https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Twelv...9&sr=1-1&keywords=handel+Il+Giardino+Armonico








So, in a fire, the Op. 6 recordings from Arte Dei Suonatori and Il Giardino Armonico are the ones I'd grab first, without hesitation. They also offer the best recorded sound of any of the versions I know (especially the BIS recording on hybrid SACD). Having both sets is more or less equivalent to owning one great recording of this music, since they both compliment each other so well (which is what I hope for when buying more than one recording, that my understanding of the music will be expanded).

The only other recording that I've not heard that has received rave reviews is the set from the Avison Ensemble (on Linn), which won awards several years ago:

https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Conce...2&sr=1-1&keywords=handel+concerto+grossi+linn

However, I did hear a couple of recordings in the Avison's Corelli series, and wasn't overly enthusiastic, though they're certainly good. Nor have I heard the Op. 6 recordings by Boston Baroque, Collegium Musicum 90, the Aradia Ensemble, Concentus Musicus Wien, or Australian Brandenburg Orchestra, either. Nor will I most likely, as I'm now quite content with the two sets that I've recommended above.


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