# Music School and Modern/Contemporary Music



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

My daughter is currently a performance major in music school, and my wife was a performance major. Their experiences in school related to modern/contemporary music have been similar. Coursework overwhelmingly focuses on tonal works (music theory, music history, etc.). Their performance courses (Orchestra, Baroque, Chamber) also focus on Romantic and earlier works. My wife's orchestra conductor apparently loved modern works and even scheduled Cage for one orchestral performance; nevertheless, the orchestra performed very few modern works overall. I believe the only modern works my daughter has performed in school are Shostakovich's Violin Concerto and Britten's Serenade for tenor, horn & strings. These works were concerto competition winners. Clearly, music schools want to train their students to perform the standard repertory in order for them to get work. 

Since composition majors must write and have works performed, my daughter often will play these works to help out her friends. While these are clearly contemporary, they are obviously not something anyone outside the school will likely ever hear. The school does have professional performances of contemporary music at times, but these seem to also be rare.

I would especially like to get feedback from TC members in music school (or those who have been to music school) on these questions. Of course others can chime in as well.

1) Do (Did) any of you get exposed to what you consider a significant amount of modern/contemporary music in school? (Obviously composition majors will spend much more time in their private work).

2) Would you like to have more exposure? If so, how would you change the coursework or performance classes?

3) Assuming you have had similar experiences with modern/contemporary music to those of my wife and daughter, do you think the lack of exposure will/did hurt you as a performer? You can interpret "hurt" anyway you wish (financially, performance ability, overall appreciation etc.).

Any other related comments would be great.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

I think you will find this blog post to be of interest. And perhaps the blog in general.
http://www.savvymusician.com/blog/2012/06/re-imagining-arts-higher-education/


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

The wind ensemble and choirs at my college perform a decent amount of 20th and even 21st century repertoire, for which I am grateful. The orchestra, unfortunately, seems pretty stuck in the 18th century. (Meaning that I, a clarinetist, often do not get to play in orchestra!) The 20th century music history course is required for music majors and the school recently added a new music theory course called "Post-Tonal Analysis."

The orchestra really needs to play more new music because
1. new music needs to be played or it will languish in obscurity and die and
2. the strings players are bored of playing almost exclusively baroque and classical-era music and
3. I am bored of not playing in orchestra.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> The wind ensemble and choirs at my college perform a decent amount of 20th and even 21st century repertoire, for which I am grateful. The orchestra, unfortunately, seems pretty stuck in the 18th century. (Meaning that I, a clarinetist, often do not get to play in orchestra!) The 20th century music history course is required for music majors and the school recently added a new music theory course called "Post-Tonal Analysis."
> 
> The orchestra really needs to play more new music because
> 1. new music needs to be played or it will languish in obscurity and die and
> ...


My daughter's school has a 20th century history course which she'll take in the spring. I'm interested to see how far they'll get (i.e. how much post WWII music will be featured?). The Post-Tonal Analysis is interesting. I wonder how many schools offer a course like that.

I'm surprised that your orchestra plays mostly 18th century music. Every school I know (not that many) play mostly Romantic with some modern but essentially no Classical era music. I always assumed that's so the orchestra can accommodate all instruments rather than leave some winds and brass out. My daughter takes a Baroque class; otherwise, she would play no Baroque music.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

I suspect our orchestra director _wants_ to leave the winds out (grr). He likes being able to work more deeply with the strings. Our music department has been in flux the last couple years (several faculty members have retired) and several of our visiting professors have been baroque (and earlier music) specialists, leading to an emphasis on that era in many of the department's activities. I'm glad that we're getting good exposure to classical-and-earlier music, I just don't want it to be to the exclusion of other stuff, as was very much the case two years ago, though not as much now. I don't want the school to _specialize._


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

May I ask what kind of music school this way? University or Conservatory?

I'm currently doing performance major studies, and my university is really good at being open to numerous music forms. One of our top groups, the Wind Orchestra, focuses almost entirely on 20th/21st Century music. I was in some concerts performing music by *Karel Husa*, and *John Corigliano*'s 3rd symphony was also performed by them last year. That symphony was probably the most awesome modern work I've heard performed live in a long time. *Morton Subotnick* came to my school last year as artist-in-residence, and did some lectures/concerts. Also, *eighth blackbird* is coming here this next year for a concert, I'm thrilled about it.

So, I think it depends on the tastes of the school, not an overall conception of modern music in American music schools.

Maybe your daughter could come where I am.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

There is a reason that music students get more training in past compositions. Several reasons actually.

Most of the music they will encounter, perform, analize etc. is from the past. There is just so much past to deal with and so little modern, just by weight of sheer numbers. 

Audiences prefer music of the past. This is a new phenomenon in classical music. In the past, people wanted the music of their times. Now most are very cold about modern music. A big part of the blame for this goes to the composers. They left their audiences in the dust and explored areas that the average listener found not just discordant but painfull. For them it is much like the Emperors New Clothes. As audiences catch up to modern composers and as modern composers respect their audiences more modern musoic will be performed and studied in the music schools.

Studying the music of the past is also important in that it gives a firm foundation for understanding and appreciating modern music. A person who is more deeply trained in music and has that strong foundation is more able to understand the more challenging aspects of modern music. Our local classical music radio station (KBYU FM) has a yearly pole of their listeners top 10 pieces. Sometimes they will ask for other information such as how much musical training the respondant has. It id a constant that those with more then just casual training in music will include more modern works in their top 10. 

As a music student I chafed against classes in renasaince counterpoint and other "esoteric" and "irrelevant" topics. Now, I look back and am thankful for that training. As a composer, I do not write particularly consosnent or tonal music, but having the deeper historic background, I have more on which to draw and know which "rules" to break to write effectively in my own style and how to still ground my work in the tradition of the past 500 years.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Lunasong said:


> I think you will find this blog post to be of interest. And perhaps the blog in general.
> http://www.savvymusician.com/blog/2012/06/re-imagining-arts-higher-education/


I'm not a musician, but I have worked in universities all my life as a scientist. The curriculum in the departments I have been associated with has remained fairly static. I can imagine great resistance to changing course requirements. I'm not sure how music schools would view significant modifications to their curriculum.

My daughter has enjoyed other cello teachers substituting for her main teacher, but I think she would be unhappy studying with anyone who was not a cellist for any length of time. Of course she does get much input from other performance professors in her various performance classes. Some of the alternatives seem interesting, but not being a musician, I have little sense of whether they make great sense.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> May I ask what kind of music school this way? University or Conservatory?
> 
> I'm currently doing performance major studies, and my university is really good at being open to numerous music forms. One of our top groups, the Wind Orchestra, focuses almost entirely on 20th/21st Century music. I was in some concerts performing music by *Karel Husa*, and *John Corigliano*'s 3rd symphony was also performed by them last year. That symphony was probably the most awesome modern work I've heard performed live in a long time. *Morton Subotnick* came to my school last year as artist-in-residence, and did some lectures/concerts. Also, *eighth blackbird* is coming here this next year for a concert, I'm thrilled about it.
> 
> ...


Both my daughter and my wife went to universities - not conservatories. My daughter told me all the performance majors prefer Romantic and earlier music, but she is a cellist and might be referring to mostly string musicians. My wife thought that string players might prefer those eras because the parts are more interesting. Brass and winds might prefer 20th century for the same reasons.

I expect my daughter will attend grad school, but there's along way to go before then, and who knows what her major interests will be then.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

My school is a small liberal arts college.

I agree with drpraetorus that it is important for music students to study and perform music of the past, I just don't think we should be as limited to it as we often are. I thought of a couple more reasons that college ensembles should play more modern music. For one thing, they are not limited in their repertoire choices by the constraint of having to snare a paying audience. (Or at least, mine isn't. Maybe some schools charge admission to their concerts, but here, all performances are free.) They do not risk bankruptcy, as might professional orchestras, if they choose to be adventurous. Also, at least here, the students are asking for it.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

follow the money, that's where the audience is and you gotta please your audience. One more Tchaikovsky piano concerto, one more Beethovens 5th


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I haven't been to, but am about to go to university to study music. This is thus quite an informative thread for me.

It seems to me that everything focusses a lot on modern music. Universities are, after all, one of the few places in the world where modern music lives and is respected. This is probably because I don't like it, and so where it does appear I figure I will have to endure it so that I can move on to the things I will prefer (e.g. analysis of Schubert, Beethoven etc.). Others more keen on modern music will of course feel its absence wherever it be.

However, not only is the dislike of modern music a new phenomenon (well, actually about 100 years old - it is older of course however music written before about that time has since been accepted) but the quantity of music of the past being given attention is also new. We now have all the composers between Bach and Mahler to study (for popular classics), from Shoenberg to the present day, and scholarship has unearthed much music which makes Palestrina look like a trendy guy. If we continue to study the music of the past to same degree in the future (50,100,500 years) we will get swamped by the quantity of the stuff. Not only studying, but the standard repertoire would continue to expand in such a way that it would be impossible to be familiar with every style which is even well known today. This may not necessarily be a bad thing of course. I think today's obsession with the past is due to the [laziness of contemporary audiences]/[failure of modern composers to provide a valid new alternative]. Probably things will move on, though in what way remains to be seen.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I am not nor have I been a music student, but I do know that in our music schools (universities) to earn their undergraduate degree, performance students usually have to complete not only 'core' subjects but also specialise (or do electives) as they progress through the course (eg. 2nd year and after). Thats my understanding, and its the same as with study in any subject area at tertiary level. But if the degree for your daughter, mmsbls, is focussing mainly on just the similar type of repertoire (without much opportunity to play anything else), well maybe they are not broad enough or too narrow, as Huilu suggests above.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

1. At my academy, the ensembles tend to study classical and romantic era works. I've never heard anything later than Shostakovich. 

On the other hand, in composition, traditional tonality is taboo, tonality itself is nearly taboo.

Mandatory music theory never went beyond traditional tonality. However, there was an elective for Post-tonal theory.

So, not really. The composition instructor would recommend pieces, but I never had to listen to them.

2. I think we could have gotten a little more exposure. I think mandatory theory could go a bit further than it did. I think the ensemble work could do a little more modern works, especially the younger groups (these seem to be the most receptive). 

3. Me? No. Nobody ever asks to hear modern works.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

My school seems to expose most of the music students to a variety of 20th and 21st Century music, with music history courses going through to about 1945, the later music theory courses involving study of modern scores and the newer compositional techniques, and contemporary music classes studying the composers and their works in detail post-1945. As a composition major, I have studied newer music on my own and with my private teachers, but I've already been exposed to alot of contemporary music simply because I love alot of it. Going into college, I had pretty lacking knowledge of classical music (and theory), but I knew I wanted to compose. I was inspired by the music of Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Nobuo Uematsu, and Frank Zappa, and in particular, Frank Zappa sparked my interest in the classical music of modern times, because that was one of his biggest influences, and he loved to discuss the composers he admired in interviews (Varese, Stravinsky, Webern, Boulez, Takemitsu, Bartok, and even Ravel and Chopin). It was through Zappa and his music that I started to explore some of these composers, though alot of the music was very challenging at first. I didn't really understand it (and I don't mean on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level, the way most people listen to and enjoy music). I also have to thank one of my teachers from my previous college, a composer and percussionist named Steven Schmidt. Steve really opened my eyes to new things, in particular re-introducing me to The Rite of Spring, which I listened to all the time and really expanded the way I listen to music, and made me even more passionate about the great adventure of music. He also gave me alot of encouragement as a young and very inexperienced composer. He sparked my interest in all sorts of music I had never experienced at that point, was part of what kindled my burning admiration for Beethoven. When I had entered college, I was terrified that I would never be able to compose anything good. I had seen the film Amadeus, and honestly, I really related to Salieri in the film, because I wanted so much to create something beautiful, something like the great artists who inspired me could make, but I was afraid that it was something you just had to be born able to do. When Steve showed me that Beethoven struggled with his work, poured hours of effort into his pieces, with many edits and revisions, slowly building these beautiful things, that it didn't come easy, that it wasn't some miraculous thing, that gave me so much hope. Even though I never formally studied (or have yet to, who knows what awaits in the future) composition with Steve, he has been greatly inspiring, and helped strengthen my resolve to work to be the best composer I can be.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Klavierspieler said:


> 1. At my academy, the ensembles tend to study classical and romantic era works. I've never heard anything later than Shostakovich.
> 
> On the other hand, in composition, traditional tonality is taboo, tonality itself is nearly taboo.
> 
> ...


My school is very opposite. The professors here in composition are quite open-minded, open to various styles, use of tonal, atonal, modal and pretty much all sorts of things. They want students to be well-rounded in all the tools that modern composers have at their disposal, and for us to have our own voices. Mandatory theory here goes all the way from common practice tonal procedures to advanced chromatic tonality, modality, set theory, the 12-tone system, minimalist techniques, and various other modern techniques that experiment with new combinations and variations in those systems, and our history courses move into the early parts of the 20th Century, so students are exposed to alot of pretty "modern" ideas. As a performer, most of my musical education has included modern pieces: wind ensemble literature mostly consists of 20th Century music. I orchestrated a movement from Ligeti's Musica Ricercata and performed it with the brass choir at my last school, where I also played music by Paul Hindemith, Claude Debussy, Heitor Villa-Lobos, and Benjamin Verdery guitar ensemble, and we performed pieces like Hindemith's Symphony in B-flat and various works of Percy Grainger and even Charles Ives in the wind ensemble. I think my education has been pretty broad and diverse, exposing me to ancient music through music written in recent years.


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