# Billie Holiday is the greatest jazz singer



## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Please cast your vote.  :tiphat:


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

My favourite by far, I don't do greatest


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

One of the greatest, for sure. But I can't say "THE" greatest in the face of Sinatra.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Beautiful voice, but I prefer R & B belters like Big Maybelle and Ruth Brown.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

For me, Billie is the greatest of the jazz singers. Right there with Louis Armstrong.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I've never really cared for her voice. Ella had a beautiful voice. But what's the definition of a jazz singer? Somebody who sings standards with a piano trio, or a vocalist who can improvise and sing instrumental parts like Jon Hendricks, Betty Carter, or Mark Murphy? I don't consider Sinatra a jazz singer.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

No, Louis Armstrong is.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Grrrrrr!







"THE greatest blah blah blah."

How could you?

Billie Holiday was _one_ of the greatest of jazz singers.

...because otherwise you are besmirching Bessie Smith, Big Mama Thornton, and a whole passel of others... some of those already quickly named by others in the thread


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Peggy Lee here.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

This is what made pick armstrong btw


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vesuvius said:


> One of the greatest, for sure. But I can't say "THE" greatest in the face of Sinatra.


LOL. I don't even consider Sinatra a singer, let alone a _Jazz_ singer.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

PetrB said:


> LOL. I don't even consider Sinatra a singer, let alone a _Jazz_ singer.


You only rate him for his tapdancing? If we're getting picky Bessie Smith is scarcely jazz.

Here's some blues/jazz/pop with a terrible voice that is still so heart-rending


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Billie Holiday was special. The greatest? Who knows?


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

What about Sarah Vaughan?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

She is one of the greats, with remarkable phrasing. She even got Jack Kerouac, in On the Road, to wax poetic about her:

The brothers began to sing gay songs, fast. I huddled in the cold, rainy wind and watched everything across the sad vineyards of October in the valley. My mind was filled with that great song "Lover Man" as Billie Holiday sings it; I had my own concert in the bushes. Some day we'll meet, and you'll dry all my tears, and whisper sweet, little things in my ear, hugging and a-kissing, oh what we've been missing, Lover Man, oh where can you be." It's not the words so much as the great harmonic tune and the way Billie sings it, like a woman stroking her man's hair in soft lamplight


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm with the mob that defy that anyone or anything can be "the Greatest"!

It is fx. easy with Sinatra, the only of his albums that are good are the one's where he's wearing a hat on the cover!

Of male singers I much prefer Nat King Cole, there are few if any other "Jazz" singer that can phrase the English language like he did! Of female singers I often prefer Ella to Billie, but have a soft spot for Dinah Washington, she is really underrated! (Her take on "Nature Boy" is pure magic!)

/ptr


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh come on, the Greatest only means your Favourite.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

ptr said:


> ! Of female singers I often prefer Ella to Billie, but have a soft spot for Dinah Washington, she is really underrated! (Her take on "Nature Boy" is pure magic!)
> 
> /ptr


Forgot about Dinah. I love her 'Mad About the Boy' as well.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

PetrB said:


> LOL. I don't even consider Sinatra a singer, let alone a _Jazz_ singer.


let's say that he was also a jazz singer as in his album with Red Norvo.

Anyway I've had a problem for a long time with Billie Holiday, maybe because I can't stand some of his most celebrated work on those late albums like Lady in satin (I have many difficulties to consider jazz those tacky arrangements) most of all because of that singing clichè*.
But I really like the pieces she recorded in the thirties with Lester Young, where I recognize her expressivity, but she's not at all one of my favorite singers.

*




I've taken a random video just to show what I mean: hear as he sing the word "blue" in "blue moon" (at 0:10) ending on a lower note... she did that mewing endlessly, especially in her later years.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Blossom Dearie is another one I like.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

What about Cleo Lane? Fantastic jazz singer!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I have to say also that considering female jazz singers I've never understood why a lot of people talks of Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan as a sort of holy trinity. 
There are so many singers that I've enjoyed as much (and often more) than them.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

shangoyal said:


> Blossom Dearie is another one I like.


her version of Someone to watch over me is perfect!


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

shangoyal said:


> Oh come on, the Greatest only means your Favourite.


There are a lot of people here that take what you write literally. I happen to agree with them in this case. To me, Who is "the Best" vs "Your Favorite" are two VERY DIFFERENT questions. The former, in most cases when it comes to music, is almost impossible to answer. The latter however is not only easy to answer for most people, but also fun.

V


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

norman bates said:


> Anyway I've had a problem for a long time with Billie Holiday, maybe because I can't stand some of his most celebrated work on those late albums like Lady in satin (I have many difficulties to consider jazz those tacky arrangements) most of all because of that singing clichè.


Billie is one of my all-time favorites, but I've _never_ understood the appeal of that album!

I love most of Billie's recordings from her later years on Verve. But by the time that she recorded _Lady in Satin_, her voice was gone. (I'm not a fan of Ray Ellis' arrangements either.)

For me, NOTHING surpasses her Columbia small-group recordings with Teddy Wilson, Lester Young, Ben Webster, and so many other giants.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Billie Holiday was a breathtaking singer! no doubts, but she was more blues than Jazz. Ella Fitzgerald By a country mile is the ahead of her in sheer vocal ability and is jazz down to the bone! Billie had about an octave to play with, if that but my god what she did with it.

Blues = Billie, Dinah, Sarah

Jazz = Ella,Lena, Bessie Smith, Maxine Sullivan

Swing= Della Reese, Ivy Anderson, Kitty Kallen.


The guys dont get a look in!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Badinerie said:


> Jazz = Ella,Lena, Bessie Smith, Maxine Sullivan
> 
> Swing= Della Reese, Ivy Anderson, Kitty Kallen.


Why this distinction? Ella Fitzgerald is (as Anita O'Day and few others) is maybe the symbol of swing


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

norman bates said:


> Why this distinction? Ella Fitzgerald is (as Anita O'Day and few others) is maybe the symbol of swing


Agreed. The lines between jazz, swing and even blues are very, very blurry -- especially the further back in time that you go.

For example, when Billie Holiday sings "Billie's Blues," to me it is PURE JAZZ -- even tho' she's singing a blues.

But I guess those distinctions are difficult -- and in the end academic .


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

JACE said:


> Agreed. The lines between jazz, swing and even blues are very, very blurry -- especially the further back in time that you go.
> 
> For example, when Billie Holiday sings "Billie's Blues," to me it is PURE JAZZ -- even tho' she's singing a blues.
> 
> But I guess those distinctions are difficult -- and in the end academic .


Swing is considered to be a sub genre of jazz and blues is a form as well as a genre.

For example, this Charlie Parker song is a blues but it is also bebop.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Piwikiwi said:


> For example, this Charlie Parker song is a blues but it is also bebop.


and it swings too!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> LOL. I don't even consider Sinatra a singer, let alone a _Jazz_ singer.


LOL. That's okay. I do.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Great Jazz singers are many to say that one is the best is not really credible. In respect of the ladies I would plump for Ella, Cleo, Nina, Sarah and many more. Tony Bennett and Nat 'King' Cole are far better Jazz singers than Sinatra much as I like him. In particular Cole's early work with the Trio were, to my mind, particularly important and much underrated.
However all of these opinions are subjective and will not please everyone. 
Like Vesuvius I agree that its all personal choice.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

My mums a Big Nat Cole fan, he was the best. Even now when she's 87, we know better that to contest this in our family! Sinatra she says was ok but no Nat! She saw them both live in their prime. so I take her word. I love his work with the trio.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Badinerie said:


> My mums a Big Nat Cole fan, he was the best. Even now when she's 87, we know better that to contest this in our family! Sinatra she says was ok but no Nat! She saw them both live in their prime. so I take her word. I love his work with the trio.


Bad's mum tells the truth... :tiphat:

/ptr


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Billie was one of the greatest certainly, but it's Ella who I return to again and again. Her scat singing was just the best.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Am I allowed to nominate Bing Crosby? His name usually elicits groans from jazz purists, I don't know why. Too white, too mainstream, too popular with old fogeys like me? But his phrasing and rhythm are wonderful. I like his early records best, say pre 1940, although there are plenty of good later ones too.

Someone once said that Billie sounded as if her shoes were too tight! I think I know what they meant- it's not a very grateful sounding voice to my ear, although her greatness is manifestly clear. Ella had a more attractive sound, but (to me) was an emotionally unexpressive singer. This is the single most unattractive trait of singers who are lumped together as 'jazz singers' and I think of Sinatra as the most egregious offender, in spite of his gift for 'swinging'. I never gave a damn about him, simply because he always sounded like he couldn't give a damn about what he was singing, as long as it went with enough swing! He's better in music of a jaunty character like New York, New York than in sentimental ballads where the singer needs to wear their heart on their sleeve, which of course means having a heart in the first place! Billie Holiday had plenty of heart, so if you can warm to her timbre, she may well be the best.

Personally Billie isn't even my favourite singer called Holiday: that would be Michael Holliday, a charming Bing soundalike from the fifties. Perhaps I'm not really the right person to be pontificating about jazz singers...


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

For me, that would be Ella Fitzgerald. For present day times, that would be Diana Krall.


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