# Looking for modernists like Stockhausen and Grisey



## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

Hello everyone,
I am looking for more modernist composers to listen to. I really want to open up to electronic music, And music of the timbre. I want to explore music with special effects, use of modern technology and things that will just blow me away.
I opened this separate thread even though I opened a thread where I requested recommendations for all different kind of composers, Since I want a separate attention to this matter.
Many thanks!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

You might want to try John Cage. An extremely diverse soundworld with an attempt to create something inherently _new._ I am no cage expert, but try some his number pieces, imaginary landscapes, perhaps even his piano concertos. It was this CD that got me really into his music:










One thing that is worthwhile doing is finding some interviews with him or any information you can about his musical philosophies. Even though they can be rather controversial, he believed that music was purely the 'production of sound' and it was essentially up to the listener to really listen to it as music, as if it were a composition rather than 'random' sounds of the environment.

Other composers like Grisey....even though I'm not an avid fan of spectralism which he was a key figure in the development of, another composer who is usually mentioned in the same breath is Tristan Murail.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2015)

Not much sounds like Stockhausen, if you ask me, but I agree with the Cage rec for the sole reason that both Stockhausen and Cage were ridiculously inventive and went through several compositional periods (and 99% of the criticisms always seem to fail to distinguish between these periods).

If you want other recs like Stockhausen, you might want to share some favorite works; for instance, Cardew's _Treatise_ is a bit like Stockhausen's intuitive period, but Cardew wrote nothing in the vein of Stockhausen's other compositional eras.

Like Grisey, purely in the sense that they're often called spectralists (to varying extents: Murail is right there with Grisey, while the Romanian school is rather different, and folks like Haas and Saariaho only borrow techniques; Haas, for instance, denies ever performing spectral analysis)....

Tristan Murail
Hugues Dufourt
Michael Levinas
Georg Friedrich Haas
Kaija Saariaho
Toshio Hosokawa
Alberto Posadas
Jose Manuel Lopez Lopez
Horatiu Radulescu
Iancu Dumitrescu
Ana-Maria Avram

...and so on...

If it is an extraordinary pallet of timbre you seek, composers of musique concrete instrumentale are not to be missed. Lachenmann, Spahlinger, Andre, and so on...


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

Thank you for the information. I know John Cage, But I heard his 4′33 in a history class, And it was rather boring.. 
I should really explore more of his music, He seems like an interesting figure, Even if I could agree (from the little music of his that I have heard) That he may be more of an inventor than a composer, as another famous musician once said. His primary goal was to explore sounds etc., Rather than to purely compose in my humble opinion, But he was certainly an innovator that his philosophy has contributed a lot to modern music.
It is not that I am a avid fan of Grisey myself, I don't know enough modern composers to make such a statement, But I really liked some of the effects in his music. In one piece he composed there was a bass voice that has been altered (EQued), And it was a splendid effect.
I will listen to Murail.
Any more suggestions would certainly be welcome!


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Xenakis's La legende d'éer!!!






Feldman's Piano, Violin, Viola Cello!!!






Lopez's La Selva!!!


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Not much sounds like Stockhausen, if you ask me, but I agree with the Cage rec for the sole reason that both Stockhausen and Cage were ridiculously inventive and went through several compositional periods (and 99% of the criticisms always seem to fail to distinguish between these periods).
> 
> If you want other recs like Stockhausen, you might want to share some favorite works; for instance, Cardew's _Treatise_ is a bit like Stockhausen's intuitive period, but Cardew wrote nothing in the vein of Stockhausen's other compositional eras.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I just saw your reply.
I may need to listen to some more Stockhausen to determine which pieces I like more.
I will look into your suggestions.
Could you share with me some other musique concrete instrumentale good composers if there are? I want to explore as much as I can.
Thank you


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Would Elliott Carter be a valid suggestion?


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

Every suggestion is welcome! I will look into every composer soon.
I am mainly looking for music that utilizes the electronic capabilities we have today.
What genres other than spectral music utilize computers etc.?
Also, I should note that I liked Stockhausen's telemusik. I recall listening to another piece by him that his made from a boy reading the bible or something of that sort, And it is being manipulated electronically. It was also hypnotizing. There is a really hypnotizing character to this music.
That is what I am looking for.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2015)

Gustav Mahler said:


> Every suggestion is welcome! I will look into every composer soon.
> I am mainly looking for music that utilizes the electronic capabilities we have today.
> What genres other than spectral music utilize computers etc.?


Then throw in:

Luc Ferrari
Francisco Lopez
Zbigniew Karkowski
Otomo Yoshihide
Natasha Barrett
Anthony Pateras

And then ask your friendly neighborhood cuddlebunny we call "some guy" 

RE: Musique Concrete Instrumentale - From what I know, it's not as much an official "school of composition" as it is a descriptor applied by Lachenmann himself to his unique style. That said, I think Billone could fit in with those other three I mentioned.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Gustav Mahler said:


> Hello everyone,
> I am looking for more modernist composers to listen to. I really want to open up to electronic music, And music of the timbre. I want to explore music with special effects, use of modern technology and things that will just blow me away.
> I opened this separate thread even though I opened a thread where I requested recommendations for all different kind of composers, Since I want a separate attention to this matter.
> Many thanks!


Jonathan Harvey


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

There are two contemporary composers, that I do not care fore but the OP might be interested in: Harrison Birtwistle and Brian Ferneyhough


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Try *Richard Barrett*--_The Opening of the Mouth_

Also, *Pierre Boulez*-- _Repons_


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Or just _everything_ by *Pierre Boulez.*


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

I have to note that I am also looking for modern music with mystic character and spirituality. I have heard some music by Sofia Gubaidulina, And I liked its spirit.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Gustav Mahler said:


> I have to note that I am also looking for modern music with mystic character and spirituality. I have heard some music by Sofia Gubaidulina, And I liked its spirit.


Galina Ustvolskaya, Giya Kancheli, Franghiz Ali-Zadeh, Alfred Schittke.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

To the above I would add Luigi Nono.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Gustav Mahler said:


> I have to note that I am also looking for modern music with mystic character and spirituality. I have heard some music by Sofia Gubaidulina, And I liked its spirit.


Which pieces did you most like by her? I'm especially keen on her piano concerto "Introitus" and the violin concertos. If you like those, you may also like the violin concertos of Penderecki, Schnittke's 2nd Symphony and piano quintet (which he also orchestrated, with the title "In Memoriam..."), and Pettersson's 7th symphony.


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

I have only heard the canticle of the sun. I will listen to the other works you all mentioned. Thank you!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Gustav Mahler said:


> I have to note that I am also looking for modern music with mystic character and spirituality. I have heard some music by Sofia Gubaidulina, And I liked its spirit.


Arvo Pärt; Giya Kancheli; Peteris Vasks; John Tavener; Valentin Silvestrov.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

October reminds me of the Donaueschinger Musiktage, the annual "new music" festival in Germany.

The Donaueschinger Musiktage, founded in 1921, is a prestigious festival for new music that takes place every October in the small town of Donaueschingen, in the very south-western tip of Germany, near the confluence of the two sources of the river Danube (in German: Donau) from which the town derives its name. A committee of distinguished musicians, among them Ferruccio Busoni, Joseph Haas, Hans Pfitzner, Arthur Nikisch and Richard Strauss, met in 1921 to discuss possible formats for the initial event. The first concert was presented just a few months later, on 31 July 1921. The concert has been conducted annually since (with the exception of a hiatus during the War years), in recent years in October.

http://www.swr.de/swr2/festivals/don...a0m/index.html _and_ http://www.swr.de/swr2/festivals/don...100794/7qls53/ )

The labels Col Legno and currently NEOS have documented the happenings at Donaueshingen annually in a series of recordings that capture highlights of years from the early 90s till the event of 2013. The set is remarkable for its offerings of what is happening now in serious music. The composers featured are basically a who's-who of contemporary art music.

A place to begin is with the 12 disc set titled *75 Jahre Donaueschinger Musiktage*. If you want only the most recent music, the smaller compilations from each year since the early 1990's (up to the latest edition, from the 2013 festival -- I don't believe the recordings from the 2014 festival have yet been released) will provide much to listen to.

On another post on this board I listed the contents of that 12 disc box.

Disc 1
*Paul Hindemith* - String Quartet No. 2 in C Major, Op. 16 (1921)
1.	Mvt I - 10:29
2.	Mvt II - 12:44
3.	Mvt III - 7:31
*Igor Stravinsky* - Sonata for Piano No. 2 in F Sharp Minor (1925)
4.	Mvt I - 3:05
5.	Mvt II - 5:07
6.	Mvt III - 2:57
*Ernst Krenek* - Drie Lustige Marsche, Op. 34 for wind orchestra (1926)
7.	I. Marsch - 1:56
8.	II. Marsch - 2:05
9.	III. Marsch - 2:29
*Kurt Weill* - Der Lindberghflug (1929)
10.	19:02
*Hans Haass* - Capriccio, Fugue and Intermezzo for player piano (1926)
11.	8:01

Disc 2
*Arnold Schönberg* - Serenade Op. 24 for clarinet and orchestra (1920-1923)
1.	March - 4:32
2.	Menuet - 7:34
3.	Variations - 4:22
4.	Sonnet by Petrarch - 3:33
5.	Dance Steps - 7:54
6.	Song Without Words - 2:29
7.	Finale - 5:33
*Alban Berg* - Lyric Suite for String Quartet (1926)
8.	Mvt I - 3:01
9.	Mvt II - 5:51
10.	Mvt III - 3:30
11.	Mvt IV - 5:15
12.	Mvt V - 4:39
13.	Mvt VI - 6:02
*Roman Haubenstock-Ramati* - Credentials Or Think, Think Lucky (1961)
14.	13:01

Disc 3
1.	*John Cage *- 12'55.6078 (1954) for two pianists (prepared piano) - 13:20
2.	*Alois Hába *- String Quartet No. 2 in the quarter-tone system, Op. 7 (1923):
Andante - Allegretto - 11:15
3.	*Alois Hába *- String Quartet No. 2 in the quarter-tone system, Op. 7 (1923):
Allegro scherzando - 5:55
4.	*Dieter Schnebel *- Diapason, Kanon A 13 (1977) - 19:03
5.	*Paul-Heinz Dittrich *- Areae Sonantes (1973)
for instrumental and vocal groups - 16:56
6.	*Friedrich Cerha* - Spiegel II (1964) for 55 strings - 11:27

Disc 4
1.	*Luciano Berio* - Sinfonia (1968-69) for Eight Voices and Orchestra: I - 5:51
2.	*Luciano Berio* - Sinfonia (1968-69) for Eight Voices and Orchestra: II - O King - 5:06
3.	*Luciano Berio *- Sinfonia (1968-69) for Eight Voices and Orchestra: III -
In ruhig fliessender Bewegung - IV - 14:44
4.	*Luciano Berio *- Sinfonia (1968-69) for Eight Voices and Orchestra: V - 7:08
5.	*Rolf Liebermann *- Concerto for Jazzband and Symphony Orchestra (1954) - 17:00
6.	*Cristóbal Halffter *- Planto por las víctimas de la violencia (1971)
for chamber ensemble and electrical sound transformer - 21:22
7.	*Igor Stravinsky *- Epitaphium für das Grabmal des Prinzen Max Egon zu Fürstenberg (1959)
for flute, clarinet & harp - 1:23

Disc 5
7.	*Henri Pousseur *- Quintette à la mémoire d'Anton Webern (1955)
for clarinet, bass clarinet, violin, cello, and piano - 13:00
8.	*Mauricio Kagel *- Zwei-Mann-Orchester (1971/73)
for two one-man orchestras - 47:23
9.	*Rolf Riehm* - O Daddy (1984) for orchestra and electronic tape - 16:24

Disc 6
8.	*Brian Ferneyhough* - Time and Motion Study III (1975)
for 16 mixed voices, percussion, live electronics - 22:40
9.	*Mathias Spahlinger *- Und als wir (1993) for string orchestra - 16:19
10.	*Hans Zender* - Muji no Kyo (1975) for voice and variable ensemble - 18:25
11.	*Hanspeter Kyburz* - Cells (1993)
for saxophones & large chamber orchestra - 13:43
12.	*Pierre Boulez *- Tombeau à la mémoire du Prince
Max Egon zu Fürstenberg (1959) - 7:19

Disc 7
1.	*Iannis Xenakis *- Ata (1987) for orchestra - 15:10
2.	*Jörg Herchet *- Composition for Trombone, Baritone and Orchestra (1980) - 29:45
3.	*Vinko Globokar *- Laboratorium (1973) for 11 players (excerpts) - 22:05
4.	*György Ligeti *- Lontano (1967)- 10:32

Disc 8
13.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry* - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Prolog - 1:14
14.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry*- Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Premier air d'Orphee - 2:01
15.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry* - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Premier recitativ d'Orphee - 3:20
16.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry* - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Les monstres - 3:25
17.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry* - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Parade d'Eurydice - 3:23
18.	*Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry* - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Debat d'Orphee - 5:15
19.	Pierre Shaeffer and Pierre Henry - Orphée 53 - Spectacle lyrique (1953):
Rupture finale - 1:58
20.	*Luigi Nono *- Post-Praeludium per Donau (1987) for tuba and live electronics - 13:47
21.	*Michael Levinas *- Par Dela (1994) for orchestra - 21:04
22.	*Younghi Pagh-Paan* - NIM (1987) - 15:15
23.	*Anton Webern* - Bagatelles (6) for String Quartet, Op. 9 (1911-13) - 4:33

Disc 9

1.	*Karl Amadeus Hartmann *- 
Symphony No. 2 "Adagio" (1946) for large orchestra -- 15:42
2.	*Pierre Boulez *- 
Polyphonie X (1951) for 18 instruments -- 16:49
3.	*Luigi Nono *- 
Due espressioni (1953) for orchestra - 12:15
4.	*Iannis Xenakis *- 
Metastaseis (1953-54) for orchestra - 8:40
5.	*Krzysztof Penderecki *- 
Anaklasis (1960) for strings and percussion - 8:40
6.	*György Ligeti *- 
Atmosphères (1961) for orchestra - 8:35

Disc 10
1.	*Pierre Boulez* - 
Poésie pour pouvoir (1958) for five track tape and 3 orchestra groups -- 18:51
2.	*Pierre Boulez *- 
Structures for two pianos, book 2 (1961): Chapter I - 9:00
3.	*Pierre Boulez* - 
Structures for two pianos, book 2 (1961): Chapter II version 1 - 13:51
4.	*Pierre Boulez* - 
Structures for two pianos, book 2 (1961): Chapter II version 2 - 13:20
5.	*Karlheinz Stockhausen* - 
Punkte (1952/62) for orchestra - 18:53

Disc 11
1.	*Igor Stravinsky* - In memoriam Dylan Thomas (1954)
for tenor, 4 trombones and string quartet - 7:51
2.	*Bernd Alois Zimmermann *-- Sonata for viola solo (1955) - 6:09
3.	*Heinz Holliger *- Pneuma (1970)
for thirty-six winds, four radios, organ, and percussion - 16:05
4.	*Helmut Lachenmann* - Schwankungen am Rand (1974-1975)
for sheet metal and strings - 32:45
5.	*Andreas Raseghi* - Chamber Quartet (1987) for strings: 
Non troppo vivace - 3:30
6.	Andreas Raseghi - Chamber Quartet (1987) for strings:
With infinite passion and expression, rubatissimo - 2:34
7.	Andreas Raseghi - Chamber Quartet (1987) for strings:
Molto lento - 3:19

Disc 12
1.	*Olivier Messiaen *- Réveil des oiseaux (1953) for piano and orchestra - 21:26
2.	*Elliott Carter* - Oboe Concerto (1988) - 19:00
3.	*Wolfgang Rihm* - Frau/Stimme (1989)
for soprano and orchestra with second soprano - 20:14
4.	*Johannes Kalitzke* - Nachtschleife (1989) madrigal for vocal sextet - 15:17

Here's a link to some of the more recent releases: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=donaueschinger+Musiktage

All of this is Way Recommended!


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

Thank you, I will be getting a few Donaueschinger Musiktage recordings.
I am currently listening to John Cage variations, Interesting sound effects.
Any more suggestions would still be welcome. Why not explore as much as you can while you are still alive!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Nono is the man, IMO. The Pollini disk was a good place to start for me, and I think it would be for others too.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

^^^ and _La lontananza nostalgica utopica futura_ as well.
The Gidon Kremer recording by DG, with Sofia Gubaidulina's tapes modifications.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Gloria Coates is worth a listen


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

cwarchc said:


> Gloria Coates is worth a listen


I'm the president of her fan club.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Gustav Mahler said:


> Thank you, I will be getting a few Donaueschinger Musiktage recordings.
> I am currently listening to John Cage variations, Interesting sound effects.
> Any more suggestions would still be welcome. Why not explore as much as you can while you are still alive!


I've got the 2010 DM and it is exceptional IMO. They're on Spotify, if you are into such things.


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