# The World of Opera; where to start?



## Jamest (Oct 26, 2011)

The title says it all really.

So far I've only seen three operas, all Puccini (dvd and youtube); Tosca, La Boheme and Turandot. I know that Tosca isn't necessarily for everyone (same for Turandot) but I personally enjoyed it - especially Ruggero Raimondi's 'Va Tosca' at the end of Act 1 which was so damn sinister.

So I need some advice on expanding my opera horizon. Where should I go next?

James.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

As might be expected, this question comes up fairly regularly. Here are a few threads that address this question.
http://www.talkclassical.com/14055-recommendations-relative-new-listener.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/4227-make-me-real-opera.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/13180-what-should-someone-completely.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/9562-how-start-appreciating-opera.html

(Almaviva or another mod, perhaps it would be worthwhile to consolidate those threads and then make a link to an authoritative "Intro to opera" thread in the Index thread?)

Of course, that's not to dissuade you from asking any questions, but you may want to start with those threads as they are full of good advice. Speaking for myself, a bottom-up approach worked better -- finding performers whose voice and performances spoke to me, finding arias I loved, and then working up to full operas. But everyone is different and some find diving right into a full opera the best approach for them.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

But to directly answer your question, I think La Traviata would be a natural next choice. Someone here (MamaScarletti?) once described La Boheme as a poor man's La Traviata (pun intended, I'm sure), and I'm inclined to agree; so, if you like La Boheme, I think you'll enjoy getting to know Violetta and co.

For something thematically similar to Tosca ... hm, maybe Lucia di Lammermoor or Don Giovanni?


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## AnaMendoza (Jul 29, 2011)

I think you should check out Verdi. (But then, I say that to everyone.  ) Seriously, Verdi's _Rigoletto_ might be a good one to try next. The title character is no pure-evil Scarpia, but a complex person who combines very evil behavior with great love, and has some very passionate outbursts, (check _Pari Siamo._, at the end of the first scene.) I bet you'd enjoy him.

Verdi's _La Traviata_ doesn't have any villain, unless you nominate society as a whole, but it has extremely beautiful music, and a strong storyline.

I found it a little more difficult to get into Verdi's _Don Carlo_, but now it might be my favorite of his operas. It tackles politics, family, love and religion, in no particular order, and has endlessly beautiful music.

And then there's Wagner--stylistically his music might have more of what you like in Puccini. Hard to know where to start. I'm sure other people are going to be here with suggestions, if they didn't already post them while I was writing this.

Let us know what you try, and how you like it!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> As might be expected, this question comes up fairly regularly. Here are a few threads that address this question.
> http://www.talkclassical.com/14055-recommendations-relative-new-listener.html
> http://www.talkclassical.com/4227-make-me-real-opera.html
> http://www.talkclassical.com/13180-what-should-someone-completely.html
> ...


The problem with consolidating threads is that there is absolutely no way around a sort of inflexible vBulletin (our software) feature: all posts will be sorted by date of posting, regardless of the original thread, therefore the discussions will get all fragmented. The only way to deal with this is to put four links to all four threads in the Index thread. I'll do it.

OK, done. The above four threads are part of the Index now, and if this one evolves well, I'll put it there too.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Jamest said:


> The title says it all really.
> 
> So far I've only seen three operas, all Puccini (dvd and youtube); Tosca, La Boheme and Turandot. I know that Tosca isn't necessarily for everyone (same for Turandot) but I personally enjoyed it - especially Ruggero Raimondi's 'Va Tosca' at the end of Act 1 which was so damn sinister.
> 
> ...


Hi James & welcome to the forum.

As to where to go next, I'll let you browse through other suggestions before I bombard you with my Verdi-Verdi-Verdi. 

But you've certainly _started_ in the right place. My knowledge & enthusiasm has increased immeasurably since I joined this forum.


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## hutchscott (May 13, 2011)

I am an opera novice as well. Did you think about your public library as a source? That is how I got into opera. I felt better trying something if I hadn't paid money for it.

As for individual performers, you will find we are in two camps: La Bellissima, and El Guapo. Basically Anna Netrebko, soprano, and Jonas Kauffman, tenor. I say this tongue in cheek as obviously there are also other very good singers in each vocal class. You will find threads here for Lovliest Sopranos, for example.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

hutchscott said:


> I am an opera novice as well. Did you think about your public library as a source? That is how I got into opera. I felt better trying something if I hadn't paid money for it.
> 
> As for individual performers, you will find we are in two camps: La Bellissima, and El Guapo. Basically Anna Netrebko, soprano, and Jonas Kauffman, tenor. I say this tongue in cheek as obviously there are also other very good singers in each vocal class. You will find threads here for Lovliest Sopranos, for example.


Not forgetting the gorgeous baritones


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Jamest said:


> The title says it all really.
> 
> So far I've only seen three operas, all Puccini (dvd and youtube); Tosca, La Boheme and Turandot. I know that Tosca isn't necessarily for everyone (same for Turandot) but I personally enjoyed it - especially Ruggero Raimondi's 'Va Tosca' at the end of Act 1 which was so damn sinister.
> 
> So I need some advice on expanding my opera horizon. Where should I go next?


Why, Madama Butterfly, of course!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

hutchscott said:


> As for individual performers, you will find we are in two camps: La Bellissima, and El Guapo. Basically Anna Netrebko, soprano, and Jonas Kauffman, tenor.


Does this mean that the Bellissima camp doesn't appreciate El Guapo and vice-versa? Not my case. I like El Guapo. I just don't find him squeezable.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Tales of Hoffman, Cluytens, emi, stereo
Faust, Cluytens emi, stereo
Lohengin, Kempe, emi, stereo or Sawallisch, philips, live Beyreuth Festival.
Magic Flute, Klemperer, emi, stereo. 

More beautiful works you'll never hear. Started with them, still favorites. Please get them. You'll love them forever.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I like El Guapo.


I think El Guapo is pretty darned cool, myself...plus, he 'on his way'.






By the way, the more I see of that Bellissima the more I likey :devil:


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

kv466 said:


> the more I see of that Bellissima the more I likey :devil:


But in her heart you're not capable of inspiring the slightest affection. Who will clear your mind? Who will teach you how to make youself loved?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Aramis said:


> But in her heart you're not capable of inspiring the slightest affection. Who will clear your mind? Who will teach you how to make youself loved?


I want to know what love is. I want you to show me.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

Since that is the way I am my first Opera experience was unorthodox, Boris Godunov. Perhaps not the best first choice for everyone. You will get as many answers as we have members. I would suggest Magic Flute. I would recommend 3 DVD's the Paris Opera production conducted by Ivan Fischer which is perhaps the most beautifully done. The Covent Garden conducted by Sir Colin Davis which features Simon Keenlyside but has a somewhat weaker Sarastro and the somewhat older Glyndebourne conducted by Bernard Haitink with Dame Felicity Lott, Benjamin Luxon and perhaps the best Queen of the Night in Mary Sandoz. Among the other cast members is the Speaker of a young Sir Willard White. Rigoletto might be a fine choice if they could get rid of those horrible Tenor arias. Same with Trovatore.


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## Jamest (Oct 26, 2011)

hutchscott said:


> I am an opera novice as well. Did you think about your public library as a source? That is how I got into opera. I felt better trying something if I hadn't paid money for it.


Well at the movement I'm getting all of my stuff via youtube, I'd have to spend a huge amount if I went for DVD. I will check out the library.



> As for individual performers, you will find we are in two camps: La Bellissima, and El Guapo. Basically Anna Netrebko, soprano, and Jonas Kauffman, tenor. I say this tongue in cheek as obviously there are also other very good singers in each vocal class. You will find threads here for Lovliest Sopranos, for example.


I've just looked up Anna Netrebko (what's the proper way to pronounce that?) and I found this;






 I think I'm in love already ha, she's so cheeky.

--
Yesterday and today I've been watching a cinematic production by Maazel of Don Giovanni and I must say that I don't know what to think (I haven't finished the opera yet). I love Don Giovanni as a character and the banter that he has with his servant is hilarious. For about 30 minutes I was hooked but after that my interest started to wane. I found Donna Anna and Elvira horrendously annoying as characters and their arias were so simplistic; basically one line that was repeated for 3-4 minutes with an anti-climax at the end, or so i felt. I've yet to finish the opera and I probably will for the fact that it's so highly acclaimed and In the end I do like Mozart but I was much more fixed with Puccini's stuff.

james


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, James, Anna is spectacular, isn't she?
Her first name is pronounced like the Spanish ñ sound, or the French ag sound like in _agneau_: Aña. Just like you start pronouncing _agneau_ but instead of the _eau_, you end with an open A.
Hmm.. you're Canadian, let me keep trying to explain the pronunciation of her last name using French. Her last name is pronounced exactly as it is written, with the tonic syllable being the second one: NeTREbko; the sounds go for the first syllable like the French _née_, the second one like the French _très_ (but no throaty r, just a natural rolling one), and after a short B sound without vowel just suggested by the lips, the last syllable is pronounced like the first syllable of the French _collage. _Got it?

Oh well, Don Giovanni *is* fabulous. Give it another chance. It will grow on you. By the way, you won't form a full impression without watching the ending, which is one of the most impressive in all of opera.


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## Jamest (Oct 26, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Yes, James, Anna is spectacular, isn't she?
> Her first name is pronounced like the Spanish ñ sound, or the French ag sound like in _agneau_: Aña. Just like you start pronouncing _agneau_ but instead of the _eau_, you end with an open A.
> Hmm.. you're Canadian, let me keep trying to explain the pronunciation of her last name using French. Her last name is pronounced exactly as it is written, with the tonic syllable being the second one: NeTREbko; the sounds go for the first syllable like the French _née_, the second one like the French _très_ (but no throaty r, just a natural rolling one), and after a short B sound without vowel just suggested by the lips, the last syllable is pronounced like the first syllable of the French _collage. _Got it?


I'm actually British and have been living in Vancouver for the last 14 months as a student. I think I understand you though, but I must say that we British don't have an affinity with other languages and are in general taught to be anglo-philes.



> Oh well, Don Giovanni *is* fabulous. Give it another chance. It will grow on you. By the way, you won't form a full impression without watching the ending, which is one of the most impressive in all of opera.


I finished it and I still don't know what to think - especially with the talking statue, I didn't expect that. The second half (roughly speaking when Donna Anna and Elvira and Ottavio go to Giovanni's party wearing masks) was a little more exciting, merely because there were more altercations and plot developments. The ending sure was spectacular.

-
I'll check out some of the suggestions posted on here, thanks for the replies!


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Does this mean that the Bellissima camp doesn't appreciate El Guapo and vice-versa? Not my case. I like El Guapo. I just don't find him squeezable.


I certainly appreciate La Bellissima. But I'd definitely much rather squeeze El Guapo! :devil:


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## maxshrek (Sep 14, 2011)

I started with Mozart k 384 and Bellini's La Sonnambula.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

post 16. was that an opera singer or Britney Spears.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Itullian said:


> post 16. was that an opera singer or Britney Spears.


You know, this aria is from an operetta (Giuditta), and it *is* supposed to be, in that scene, a lively and sensuous dance. Anna can do dramatic work as well, just like her recent Anna Bolena shows.


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## AnaMendoza (Jul 29, 2011)

Am I right that, in the context of the operetta _Giuditta_, this aria represents the character's performance at a night club? If so, how else should it be done? (I haven't been to any 1930s era night clubs, but I remember a scene in a good mystery novel of that general era, (_Phantom Lady_), that describes the singer dancing along the edge of the stage, throwing flowers to audience members.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Jamest said:


> The title says it all really.
> 
> So far I've only seen three operas, all Puccini (dvd and youtube); Tosca, La Boheme and Turandot. I know that Tosca isn't necessarily for everyone (same for Turandot) but I personally enjoyed it - especially Ruggero Raimondi's 'Va Tosca' at the end of Act 1 which was so damn sinister.
> 
> ...


Jamest, you can try _Die Tote Stadt_ for your next opera. 

We are covering it in a separate thread. If you like a CD you can use this one:










if you prefer a DVD:










or in youtube:


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## Jamest (Oct 26, 2011)

Itullian said:


> post 16. was that an opera singer or Britney Spears.


I find her performance completely alluring.

-

Schigolch, I will check it out and thank you for being so very helpful!


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Generally, 19th century Italians, French and Mozart are great for start. They only ones that need some "training" are Wagner and 20th century composers. And maybe Mussorgsky.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

AnaMendoza said:


> Am I right that, in the context of the operetta _Giuditta_, this aria represents the character's performance at a night club? If so, how else should it be done? (I haven't been to any 1930s era night clubs, but I remember a scene in a good mystery novel of that general era, (_Phantom Lady_), that describes the singer dancing along the edge of the stage, throwing flowers to audience members.


Yes, that's what the scene is (I've seen Giuditta in its entirey). And yes, that's exactly how this aria should be performed, Anna does it perfectly (and even better in a different concert than the one posted here). And yes, Anna can do drama as well, and comedy, and sexy operetta music. Anna is a complete operatic artist with a great voice, good acting skills, and lots of beauty and charm. Anna is no Britney Spears.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

sure reminded me of ol' Brit.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Itullian said:


> sure reminded me of ol' Brit.


It's Katherine Jenkins who reminds me of Brit.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Itullian said:


> Tales of Hoffman, Cluytens, emi, stereo
> Faust, Cluytens emi, stereo
> Lohengin, Kempe, emi, stereo or Sawallisch, philips, live Beyreuth Festival.
> Magic Flute, Klemperer, emi, stereo.
> ...


I don't like your Lohengrin...I'd rather suggest Daniel Barenboim

Anyhow, Lohengrin is awesome but a bit long for a beginner, don't you think so?


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Does this mean that the Bellissima camp doesn't appreciate El Guapo and vice-versa? Not my case. I like El Guapo. I just don't find him squeezable.


Who is el guapo?

Martin


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Who is el guapo?


[_Removes mask_]

*I* am El Guapo!

[_Carves a big "G" on myaskovsky's forehead, laughs heartily, then gallops away . . . _]


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Who is el guapo?
> 
> Martin


Don't you remember? You disapproved of us ladies talking about all the secksee guys & our nicknames for them, especially the secksee-ist tenorr of all.


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