# A Musical DUEL: I summon COAG



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

@ComposerofAvantGarde, I have challenged you to a musical duel!

I had kinda left it off for a while to make this post, but this was my original plan. 

My terms (agree or disagree):

I will give you first post, and beginning from there, each after the other, we pick the best piece we can from our standpoints. Share it as video, track upload, or as simply the CD label (it speaks for itself some cases). Per post, you only put *1 track*, that is, 1 mvmt. of a symphony/concerto (or if it's continuous the whole), 1 piano piece, 1 orchestral piece or mvmt. of a suite, 1 chamber mvmt., etc. To be even, I won't throw all the Russian composers out there at you, and instead of going with someone of similar era like Prokofiev, I will go with my old hero, Glazunov, versus your Ligeti. Won't this be nice? :devil: It could be treated like a _card game_ like War, throwing the Aces and Queens down to each other. Maybe this is like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh! (I'm slightly ashamed to know what that is), and lashing _musical _powers at each other.

What will determine who is a winner? The one with the most _likes_ for their posts. Yes, this is a PUBLIC duel, and I wish everyone on TalkClassical could participate, not by making posts though. I won't prohibit them, but most posts should be of mine and COAG's. How many rounds we do, I don't know yet. Maybe at end, a full total of likes will be tallied. 

*But there is a second element.* The main point of this duel isn't just about musical quality and all that, but relates to the initial origin I had for this duel: _Who's a greater enthusiast?_ Can you prove it? There, I give free liberties to express your fanaticism in any way you deem. This can be a note to the public: you may not like almost _any _of the works we will post, but if our methods of expressing (should I say venting) our enthusiasm pleases or amuses you, that's your clue.

One major rule: this isn't about belittling the other person's composer, but _entirely _praising one's own, and how effectively one can take a stand and impress the audience. Yes, no violence or bad-mouthing, just music, and poetic outbursts of emotion if you choose. 

I hope this duel works, and doesn't flunk.   This could be fun if it works. Another reason why I put it in the community forum and not the classical forum, because this is rather preposterous.

Note: this post will not count for me. We can discuss some more before we start.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

MUAHAHA!! NO ONE CAN SURPASS *LIGETI'S* _BRILLIANCE!!!_ Can I post his entire cello concerto from YouTube?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> @ComposerofAvantGarde, I have challenged you to a musical duel!
> 
> To be even, I won't throw all the Russian composers out there at you, and instead of going with someone of similar era like Prokofiev, I will go with my old hero, Glazunov, versus your Ligeti.


Aww, Glazunov? Sorry; I can't participate; I'm too biased. I'm pretty attached to the old vodka-tippler.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Manxfeeder said:


> Aww, Glazunov? Sorry; I can't participate; I'm too biased. I'm pretty attached to the old vodka-tippler.


You don't have to do anything but "like" everything that I post and steer well away from all the Russians.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm not much interested in a two-way participation where all else just view - does not seem much like a real 'forum' activity to me.

One young mono-composer obsessed vs. another nearly as mono obsessed is not really most people's idea of 'fun' or 'interesting.'

I think you should take this one outside, kids.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Manxfeeder said:


> Aww, Glazunov? Sorry; I can't participate; I'm too biased. I'm pretty attached to the old vodka-tippler.


No no! that'll help! Surely there are Ligeti fans on this website too that would vote all the way for COAG. But as I said, it's more about who stands for what they support than just the music.

@PetrB yes you're probably right.  It's worth a try though, because this has never been done before. Treat it as a way for both of us to promote our favorite composers, which is often done in the composer's lounge, but less dramatic.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> MUAHAHA!! NO ONE CAN SURPASS *LIGETI'S* _BRILLIANCE!!!_ Can I post his entire cello concerto from YouTube?


My liking you're post doesn't count yet. :tiphat:

Well, I guess I should give you your request since I invited you to this.  How about each post is limited to 1 opus? Let's start tomorrow (7/13).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> @PetrB yes you're probably right.  It's worth a try though, because this has never been done before. Treat it as a way for both of us to promote our favorite composers, which is often done in the composer's lounge, but less dramatic.


I'm all for it. Maybe other people can post works by *Ligeti* as well so it can be more like a team rather than one on one.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> My liking you're post doesn't count yet. :tiphat:
> 
> Well, I guess I should give you your request since I invited you to this.  How about each post is limited to 1 opus? Let's start tomorrow (7/13).


Due to time zone differences it's already 13/7 (using the standard date formate for my country). What time zone are you in? I'll post the first piece at midnight your time.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm all for it. Maybe other people can post works by *Ligeti* as well so it can be more like a team rather than one on one.


I see, that way it's more inclusive of the rest of this forum peoples.

So, more like a rumble than just a duel? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EO82t4ViZl4#t=5857s


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> No no! that'll help! Surely there are Ligeti fans on this website too that would vote all the way for COAG. But as I said, it's more about who stands for what they support than just the music.
> 
> @PetrB yes you're probably right.  It's worth a try though, because this has never been done before. Treat it as a way for both of us to promote our favorite composers, which is often done in the composer's lounge, but less dramatic.


Look, I 'like' you both, find COAG's mono-obsessiveness both cloyingly annoying and wholly indiscriminate often enough (age is considered here, but we are bordering on young adulthood, methinks.)

You clearly adore the late Russians, the rhythmic drive, the folk-like material or lyricism. There is very little meeting ground between the subjects you propose, or 'weapons' you choose to battle with. They are worlds apart and cannot really be evaluated or judged side by side with the same criteria - what's the point, what benefit, other than the self-indulgence (sorry, as I see it I call it) of youth?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I see, that way it's more inclusive of the rest of this forum peoples.
> 
> So, more like a rumble than just a duel?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EO82t4ViZl4#t=5857s


NO AMERICAN COMPOSERS ALLOWED!!!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Don't worry Huilunsoittaja you get my vote if you post some Beethoven.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jani said:


> Don't worry Huilunsoittaja you get my vote if you post some Beethoven.


NO GERMANS EITHER!!! ut:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

This is like a duel between dirt and a dead bird, best of luck to both of you. However, as it annoys PetrB I will support it, and maybe throw in some Wagner mono-obsessive posts for good measure.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> This is like a duel between dirt and a dead bird, best of luck to both of you. However, as it annoys PetrB I will support it, and maybe throw in some Wagner mono-obsessive posts for good measure.


I'm okay with that as long as Huilunsoittaja is okay with Wagner in the duel.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm okay with that as long as Huilunsoittaja is okay with Wagner in the duel.


I meant vote, not post. I am interested to see if you can find a Ligeti piece that doesn't make me want to throw up.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

It's a good idea, Huilu. 

Esp. if we get some 'muck-raking' about Gyorgy and Alexandr. Like how many women they bedded, ALL THE DETAILS, EVERYTHING!!! :lol:. No, only joking. This has to be ONLY about the music and boring anecdotes like who where their publishers, copyists, favourite interpreters, favourite dead and living composers, etc. 

I am not a voyeur, really...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I meant vote, not post. I am interested to see if you can find a Ligeti piece that doesn't make me want to throw up.


I'll see if I can find a micropolyphonic realisation of the love duet from Tristan und Isolde.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couchie said:


> This is like a duel between dirt and a dead bird, best of luck to both of you. _*However, as it annoys PetrB I will support it*_, and maybe throw in some Wagner mono-obsessive posts for good measure.


LOL! Mwah, my Wagnerite colleague.

This could turn out to be a sort of 'antiseptic' blood bath (since it be on teh internets) between these two ('dirt and a dead bird') which might, however, have a slightly perverse entertainment factor. I doubt if it could ever reach the operatic heights or psychological depths of your favorite obsessed upon comper -- but hey, it costs far less than a seat at the Bayreuth Festival, no?

But I don't think either you or I would pay money for a ticket for this one, eh?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Well, perhaps I could give an example of how I would get something like this to work. I have to think about it for a while, but tomorrow, I will give an example of what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for music other than Glazunov and Ligeti posted, BUT, what could work to each to our favor is posting a work and saying, "This work was dedicated in Wagner's memory, hear his influence," or, "Stravinsky heard this work and thought it was brilliant," and all that. We utilize what we know about the works to promote them, and cater to other members as we can. And if a work is particularly clever, maybe doing an allusion to _another _composer, I would welcome posting an upload to compare the tracks. 

And if we fail, give us thumbs down or whatever. PetrB can be the extreme critic, he doesn't have to like anything we post.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Post a string quartet.

and I'm gender biased.... lol


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jurianbai said:


> Post a string quartet.
> 
> and I'm gender biased.... lol


Glazunov and *Ligeti* are both men. 

But of the two, *Ligeti* certainly has the better string quartets.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

*Example: My greatest Pearl*

This is one I would really honestly like to use for real, but I think we need an example first.

GLAZUNOV - LYRIC POEM Op. 11

This is a piece of my soul:





I uploaded that video 3 years ago because I really wanted to share this piece with others. It was the very first work I ever heard by Glazunov, and was a great first impression. I won't go into that story now, as I've posted it elsewhere. It's a wonderful abstract piece, with lots of color, tension, and warmth.

This is a NAXOS recording by the way.  I like this one more than Svetlanov's performance.

FUN FACTS:
Glazunov used this work for his conducting debut when he was 23 (1887). How I would have loved to be a fly on a wall... (conducting, as many of you know, wasn't his forte, but he did his own music quite well, as I will show in a future round or 2) I would conduct this if I could! 

The title "Lyric Poem" wasn't Glazunov's! He had spent 4-5 years composing it, and hadn't thought up a good name for it the whole time! It wasn't until he played the work on piano for Tchaikovsky that he admitted this, and said his own title "Andantino" didn't feel right. Tchaikovsky, who sincerely admiring the piece, suggested that "Lyric Poem" might be a nice way to describe it, and Glazunov agreed to use it.

As you listen, you may hear a tad of Tchaikovsky's influence, but you will also hear something Wagnerian, maybe even an allusion to Tristan and Isolde.  This may be striking, since Tchaikovsky didn't exactly prove to be a Wagnerian, and so Glazunov formed a little bridge between the styles. That was one of his unique characteristics: his combination of rather antithetical composers.

Enjoy!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I will post my piece when I wake up later this morning. It is now 1 am, 14th of July 2012. Too tired right now.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You don't have to do anything but "like" everything that I post and steer well away from all the Russians.


I love MANY Russian composers... And this girl is extremely smart and not show off at all. Personally I dislike show off people...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Personally I dislike show off people...


Like Elena House?


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> This is one I would really honestly like to use for real, but I think we need an example first.
> 
> GLAZUNOV - LYRIC POEM Op. 11
> 
> ...


Thank you, this is awesome... I consider 15.01234567 of A. Glazunov boring...though. Because I am a big collector, I bought everything I found... Sometimes I was disappointed. Romantic, impressionist...late romantic, inspired Shostakovich to be his opposite. LOL. Shostakovich first symphony was severely critized by the maestro. But, I'll stop talking.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Like Elena House?


Sensa parole. No comments. I don't think she was really show off, as I said it before, she was looking for approval, encouragment, congrats. She's just two years younger than you. And personally, no offense, I consider YOU as a little show off even if you are my friend. "I can't stand tonal music" (i am too smart for this easy stuff), "I am glad some people say I am a genius, because that is what I am". C'mon, you're the pot calling the kettle black! You are TOO young. YOUR knowledge about tonal music is extremely limited, I said that before. Humility will come with time.

Other way to say teenager is Adolescent... *A* means without, a lack in Greek.

I prefer to think as Socrates.

I just know I know nothing

Martin


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I will post my piece when I wake up later this morning. It is now 1 am, 14th of July 2012. Too tired right now.


I'm sorry COAG, I forgot that we are like on the opposite ends of the world. :lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I'm sorry COAG, I forgot that we are like on the opposite ends of the world. :lol:


I am in Breughelland, you are in the mid-Atlantic in a place called USA. I have no idea what the mid-Atlantic USA is but I'm picturing something like an underwater metropolis. You are lucky to be living in such a fine place. I have to put up with the Apocalypse.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Sensa parole. No comments. I don't think she was really show off, as I said it before, she was looking for approval, encouragment, congrats. She's just two years younger than you. And personally, no offense, I consider YOU as a little show off even if you are my friend. "I can't stand tonal music" (i am too smart for this easy stuff), "I am glad some people say I am a genius, because that is what I am". C'mon, you're the pot calling the kettle black! You are TOO young. YOUR knowledge about tonal music is extremely limited, I said that before. Humility will come with time.
> 
> Other way to say teenager is Adolescent... A means without, a lack
> 
> ...


I always agree with your posts, but sometimes I do not like them.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Le 14 juillet c'est le jour de la revolution française.

Allons enfants de la patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé,
Contre nous de la tyranie



Lalala

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Le 14 juillet c'est le jour de la revolution française.
> 
> Allons enfants de la patrie,
> Le jour de gloire est arrivé,
> ...


Haha I was just texting a friend about that actually.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I have not access to *likes* in THIS thread any more. Weird!!!!!?????

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Haha I was just texting a friend about that actually.


Merde! I couldn't give you a like for that! No more likes in this thread for ME?

Martin, frustré (frustrated)


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

COAGulation?

Nitram


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

This thing still on? Or has it been abandoned in favour of *Ligeti?*


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> This thing still on? Or has it been abandoned in favour of *Ligeti?*


Yes! bring it on! even if like no one votes >.<


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

*LIGETI*bleh


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> NO AMERICAN COMPOSERS ALLOWED!!!


:| Huilunsoittaja gets my vote for that quip


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

PFFT some duel no ones been shot yet...


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