# A museum of bad music?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It seems that there's a museum for bad art. Shouldn't we have a museum for bad music? What should be in it?

http://www.today.com/news/museum-bad-art-showcases-worst-works-world-6C10960582

A caution on this link: Some pretty grim stuff.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Some of that art is so bad, it's good. 

I like the idea of a museum of bad music, but what to put in it? Perhaps some of the compositions by amateurs sometimes posted on boards like this one? Surely most of my own attempts at composition (which I am wise enough not to post anywhere. 

And perhaps Ben Franklin's string quartet?


----------



## echmain (Jan 18, 2013)

> Shouldn't we have a museum for bad music?

The curator could be Leonard Pinth Garnell.


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2013)

The problem with this idea is that "quality" of music is so subjective. I would fill this museum with atonal and minimalist trash but others would be offended by that.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

I predict a riot!

Ps. In case you misunderstood that comment and think I'm nominating the song of that name by the Kaiser Chiefs, I'm not.
It's a fine record!


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Like the MOBA above, a entertaining idea, but notice that MOBA avoids anything controversial by presenting artists that no-one has ever heard of, the banal, outdated and amateurish stuff from garage-sales and kitschy art supermarkets. Youtube has plenty of such music samples too; but Florence Foster Jenkins is probably one of the few who is universally acknowledged as (in)famously bad, concerning classical music. A museum of musical controversy or values would be more illuminating, and thought-stimulating ...


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

brianvds said:


> Some of that art is so bad, it's good.
> 
> I like the idea of a museum of bad music, but what to put in it? Perhaps some of the compositions by amateurs sometimes posted on boards like this one? Surely most of my own attempts at composition (which I am wise enough not to post anywhere.


Ah don't be like that, if post some of your music - I'll gladly donate one of my compositions to the museum of bad music.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Bad Music*

I addressed this issue in another thread: http://www.talkclassical.com/26853-uneven-composers.html#post498183

I would like to add this. When I was in college I tried to be a composer. What a disaster. Custer was more successful at the Battle of the Little Big Horn. If a person was exposed to any of the garbage which I composed he would scream out for _4' 33"_.


----------



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Haydn's _Symphony No. 60_ - slide the bar to 7:25. Haydn was so used to writing for violin players with pitch problems that you can actually hear this in his music sometimes. He denotes a place in the score where the entire orchestra is to stop playing, just so that the violins can get back in tune. Those violins drove the poor guy nuts, apparently.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There is a museum for bad art in London. It's called Tate Modern.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

DavidA said:


> There is a museum for bad art in London. It's called Tate Modern.


The list of their previous exhibitions is much too diversified for that characterization, cf. for instance 
http://www.saatchigallery.com/museums/full-museum-details/previous_exhibitions/ac_id/97

You´d have to call Matisse, Picasso, Strindberg, Max Beckmann, Frida Kahlo, Kandinsky, Hopper, Louise Bourgeois, Anish Kapoor and Warhol for generally bad art, then.


----------



## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

KenOC said:


> It seems that there's a museum for bad art. Shouldn't we have a museum for bad music? What should be in it?
> 
> http://www.today.com/news/museum-bad-art-showcases-worst-works-world-6C10960582
> 
> A caution on this link: Some pretty grim stuff.


I think there is a very significant difference between the visual arts and music; that is, people are less afraid to admit bad visual art exists, whereas bad music appears to be taken to deep, very deep, offense by many if those terms were mentioned.

Yes, I think we should have a musem for bad music! That noise-music crap for example. Actually that might scare the kids from visiting. :lol:


----------



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

"Bad" is the new "good". Haven't you heard?


----------



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I think there is a very significant difference between the visual arts and music; that is, people are less afraid to admit bad visual art exists, whereas bad music appears to be taken to deep, very deep, offense by many if those terms were mentioned.

Actually, I feel the reverse to be true. When I come upon anything hideous hanging in a gallery or an art museum I can simply keep on walking and not look back. My studio mate has produced a vast wealth of art that simply offends most sensibilities. I hangs right behind me as I paint... but I rarely take notice. Music is different. If I attend a concert of Mozart and Brahms and they decide to insert a piece by Xenakis in the middle I cannot simply turn away. I suppose ear plugs are always an option... but who carries these with them? I can put up with a hideous decor when I go out to a bar... but 15 TVs each playing a different sporting event and blaring Hip-Hop are far more likely to result in my leaving and seeking out another place.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

The problem I have with the words "good" and "bad" when applied to art is that for something to be good or bad, there should be a criteria to be applied. But as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as a universal, absolute criteria.



> That noise-music crap for example.


Great example, thanks. People are way too tempted into thinking that because they don't percieve something in a piece of music, or because a piece of music does not have any quality according to their own, personal criteria, then it must be bad. I'm not sure what you meant by "Noise-music crap", but I'll give an example myself:






I'm pretty sure that for some of you, it sounds like a piece of ****. But to me, it's an amazing world of sound. And as far as I'm concerned... if you think it's objectively bad, you're wrong: it's only bad as long as you see it by your own, personal, subjective criteria, because beauty lies in the ear.

You might be tempted to say "but there is better music out there" and hand me a copy of the WTC or something like that. But "better" is another misleading word, because each piece of art gives a different, unique experience, and "better" seems to imply that one experience can replace another. But you can't just replace the experience of this noise music crap with what you consider non-crap, They're different experiences, and it's not like you can actually understand what my experience is about, because... you're listening to the same piece, but with different ears, and that changes everything.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

You can certainly put my "music" in it. 

And maybe that of Lady Gag or whatever it calls itself.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I was originally going to propose that we suggest pieces by well-known composers for the museum. But then I thought -- hey, that will cause a lot of heartburn and dissension! So I didn't propose that, nossir, not at all. I wouldn't think of even mentioning that we might propose specific pieces. No, I'd never think of suggesting that! Proposing specific pieces, I mean...


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I was originally going to propose that we suggest pieces by well-known composers for the museum. But then I thought -- hey, that will cause a lot of heartburn and dissension! So I didn't propose that, nossir, not at all. I wouldn't think of even mentioning that we might propose specific pieces. No, I'd never think of suggesting that! Proposing specific pieces, I mean...


About 4 minutes and 33 seconds of verbiage and repetition in this post, by my watch. The first time you've let me down, KenOC! I share your concern, however, about contentious posts appearing on this thread.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Not sure he's a composer, mind you. I think he just sings other people's crappy songs.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

One difference is really bad music is often never recorded. Really bad paintings don't have this sort of editorial screening for us.


----------



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

brianvds said:


> View attachment 23573
> 
> 
> Not sure he's a composer, mind you. I think he just sings other people's crappy songs.


Now that's just sick..........................


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Blancrocher said:


> About 4 minutes and 33 seconds of verbiage and repetition in this post, by my watch. The first time you've let me down, KenOC! I share your concern, however, about contentious posts appearing on this thread.


Yeah, I'm sure it bothered you for maybe 4 minutes 33 seconds... :lol:


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

joen_cph said:


> Like the MOBA above, a entertaining idea, but notice that MOBA avoids anything controversial by presenting artists that no-one has ever heard of, the banal, outdated and amateurish stuff from garage-sales and kitschy art supermarkets. Youtube has plenty of such music samples too; but Florence Foster Jenkins is probably one of the few who is universally acknowledged as (in)famously bad, concerning classical music. A museum of musical controversy or values would be more illuminating, and thought-stimulating ...


But I think it would be very sad to dump that wonderful lady in a dusty museum.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2013)

My uncle Vinnie who owns an Italian diner once heard a new work by a contemporary composer that had no atmosphere.

So he sent the composer some candles and a checkered tablecloth.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

GreenMamba said:


> One difference is really bad music is often never recorded.


You've not heard of soundcloud or youtube then?


----------



## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

To counter GreenMamba -- a lot of bad music gets recorded. Classical labels and classical performers get tired of issuing the same stuff over and over, so they search out stuff to play/record that is new to them. Unfortunately, much of it is unrecorded/unplayed because it is unremarkable. Then, because it's "classical" and has been recorded, classical radio stations (that also get tired of the same stuff over and over) play it on the air, giving many people a warped sense of what classical music is.


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

How funny, the bashing is always towards the amateur artists. Of course, there's a lot of crap produced by this group, after all, some of them are indeed just amateurs (in the pejorative sense). But, from time to time, I came across with rather good things, people with great talent, and in this forum, for example.
Sadly, the reverence some have for the great composers ends in the reverence of even the most obviously flawed pieces these composers have produced. 
Tens of really minor Baroque, Classical, and Romantic composers... just because it's more music from the only period that my mono-taste likes...
:tiphat:


----------



## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Something that is _bad_ to me is boring, so I wouldn't put that in any museum. And boring stuff doesn't stand out anyway, it just fades into all the other average stuff.


----------

