# Bach isn't one of my favourites?



## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

Call me crazy if you will, but the harmony and music of Bach's is just not following in enough interest to me. The territory that most of his music pulls me in aren't melodic enough for my taste of approach. Some of his music, such as "Air on G String," and a few of his organ works astonish me with its simplistic beauty. Others, I have failed to enjoy for the bodies of the scores don't show enough grace of melody. Mozart, Vivaldi, and Beethoven show the full colours of music, with melodies that seem as they're flying from the scores, ripping free from the repercussions of Classical boundaries. 

Bach shows his sense of simplicity that flourishes the mind, and completely overthrows many composer's furious attempts to make beautiful music. It is just to me, that Bach doesn't show as much passionate harmony that is found in Beethoven or Mozart. I understand he is considered one of the best composers that ever lived, but it seems to me that the melody is hindered.

His Cello Suite No.1 Prelude for example, the strides of scales are awkwardly placed, and i'm waiting for a melody to burst out in tears, but it doesn't. Instead, I get a few scales on the Cello, and while there is a delightful melody to the chorus, I feel empty in emotions after hearing his works.

Can someone please help me to enjoy Bach more? I really want to, and my University Professor thinks i'm a fool for music when I stated this at an open debate in class.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

I feel exactly the same. I would say, though, that I don't think Bach has no melody, I think he just has a different kind. A kind I intensely dislike.  But don't feel pressured into liking him - you don't have to, and there's no sense in everyone liking the same music. If you'd like to explore Baroque music more, I'd recommend Handel instead.


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## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

I enjoy Handel quite well actually.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Listen to Scarlatti instead.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I used to feel the same way, but it slowly started to change and now he is one of my top 5 composers.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Bored said:


> Call me crazy if you will, but the harmony and music of Bach's is just not following in enough interest to me. The territory that most of his music pulls me in aren't melodic enough for my taste of approach. Some of his music, such as "Air on G String," and a few of his organ works astonish me with its simplistic beauty. Others, I have failed to enjoy for the bodies of the scores don't show enough grace of melody. Mozart, Vivaldi, and Beethoven show the full colours of music, with melodies that seem as they're flying from the scores, ripping free from the repercussions of Classical boundaries.
> 
> Bach shows his sense of simplicity that flourishes the mind, and completely overthrows many composer's furious attempts to make beautiful music. It is just to me, that Bach doesn't show as much passionate harmony that is found in Beethoven or Mozart. I understand he is considered one of the best composers that ever lived, but it seems to me that the melody is hindered.
> 
> ...


What a great post!!!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Let Bernstein enlighten you!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Bach is awesome. But you are free to your opinion.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I find it is his counterpoint I don't like so much. It's kind of ironic. Also his 'serious' manner doesn't get along with me. I like the secular orchestral works best.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Ramako said:


> I find it is his counterpoint I don't like so much. It's kind of ironic. Also his 'serious' manner doesn't get along with me. I like the secular orchestral works best.


Yeah that is more CPE Bach style. A lot different from his father. But I find them great in different ways.


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

The beauty about classical music is that everyone can find something they like.

If you don't like Bach that's fine, explore other composers and other eras and then later come back to Bach.

Maybe you'll like him then. 

The only thing that annoys me is when people start saying that particular composer is not great if they don't like him. Subjective opinion of one person means nothing.

I'd rather listen to Schubert than Bach, but that doesn't mean that Bach isn't one of the greatest composers who ever lived.


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## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

Carpenoctem said:


> The only thing that annoys me is when people start saying that particular composer is not great if they don't like him. Subjective opinion of one person means nothing.


 If you read my paragraph it would seem that I had already stated that Bach is one of the greatest composers.


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

Bored said:


> If you read my paragraph it would seem that I had already stated that Bach is one of the greatest composers.


I wasn't talking to you...

I was saying in general.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Carpenoctem said:


> The only thing that annoys me is when people start saying that particular composer is not great if they don't like him. Subjective opinion of one person means nothing.


I wonder who you are talking about.


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## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

Okay, btw nice profile pic!


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> I wonder who you are talking about.


Haha, no one in particular actually, but this stuff happens also happens a lot in real life.

I know a friend who thinks that modern electronic dance music is better than classical because more people like it. WTF?!



Bored said:


> Okay, btw nice profile pic!


Seems like you like Beethoven, so here is your new profile picture when you reach 10 posts!


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Although I find Bach wonderful in every way, I can understand those who do not adore Bach's music. I had a good friend who felt somewhat similar to the OP, and I suggested Bach's double violin concerto. Many people I know feel that piece is not only great, but quite melodious. The second movement is simple gorgeous. Anyway, my friend did not appreciate the double concerto, but perhaps you might? 

In general I think all the concertos are full of melody so you might try other ones as well.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I first seriously came to classical music through the Baroque with box sets of Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi. I had the advantage of having experienced Bach's music live as it was frequently performed in the Lutheran Church in which I was raised. I struggled more with the broad melodic/thematic structures of Wagner, Mahler, and the Romantics in general... but eventually came around to loving them as well. Bach remains my favorite composer of all... but certainly I can understand someone struggling with the complexity of his music... especially his use of counterpoint. The ornate complexity of the Baroque was what composers of the Classical era (C.P.E. Bach, Haydn, Mozart, etc...) sought to tone down... leading to a greater clarity of form and melody. I appreciate both. In fact my tastes in music tend to be rather eclectic leading me to jump about a lot. If I listen to one style too much I find myself thinking, ala Monty Python: "And now for something completely different." 

If you are struggling with Bach, listen to some of the other Baroque masters: Vivaldi, Handel, Biber, Rameau, Corelli... or listen to what you like... but come back from time to time and give Bach... and any other composer your initially struggle with... a second... third... fourth... listen. 

Glad to see you have the common sense, not shared by all, to recognize that what you dislike or find "boring" is not inherently the same as what is "bad". Welcome to TC.:tiphat:


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Bach is a composer who reveals his genius once you've gained the experience to appreciate it. It's taken me 30 years to get to that point, but now I'm seeing the outlines of the thing that were invisible to me before. The cantatas are what did it for me.

One other note... As I dig deeper into Baroque music, I'm finding that I like a lot of HIP performances, but I really prefer modern instruments. I recently got Scott Ross's Scarlatti box and I love the music, but I wish it was played on a modern piano.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

When i was very young, the only music i really liked was Mozart and Beethoven. But when i heard my school teacher play this on the piano (the first Bach i had ever heard), i immediately said to myself: This is what REAL music is supposed to be!!!

BWV 847 - Fugue en do mineur (Glenn Gould)


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Might I suggest a few obvious favourites?











How about that for passionate harmony? And that's only the tip of the iceberg! I could hum Bach melodies all day.


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## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

I have played that song before for a test. :lol: @ Phillip


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1 is one of his best works. I would go to that first.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

As my ear got better i started to join about his big Contrapuntal works.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Bored said:


> Call me crazy if you will, but the harmony and music of Bach's is just not following in enough interest to me. The territory that most of his music pulls me in aren't melodic enough for my taste of approach. Some of his music, such as "Air on G String," and a few of his organ works astonish me with its simplistic beauty. Others, I have failed to enjoy for the bodies of the scores don't show enough grace of melody. Mozart, Vivaldi, and Beethoven show the full colours of music, with melodies that seem as they're flying from the scores, ripping free from the repercussions of Classical boundaries.
> 
> Bach shows his sense of simplicity that flourishes the mind, and completely overthrows many composer's furious attempts to make beautiful music. It is just to me, that Bach doesn't show as much passionate harmony that is found in Beethoven or Mozart. I understand he is considered one of the best composers that ever lived, but it seems to me that the melody is hindered.
> 
> ...


Bach is a cult. So if you say that you do not found him attractive you are exposing yourself to such unfounded commentaries.

I recommend to start with Violin and Brandenburgh concertos.

I like those directed by Karl Richter or those by Helmunt Winshermann. I prefer Winshermann.

The very first set of music I bought by myself -a long time ago- was Winshermann's set with Laser Light and I was really astonished by the beauty and perfection of his music. Really! Because of that I explored Bach fully with ardent enthusiasm and enjoyment, until...

...a Mozart's recording came across and... Bach never sound the same.

I fall in LOVE with Mozart.

This happens, so don't worry. Bach is one of the biggest and greatest, but I have found myself a lot more identified with Mozart's.

Instrumentation in Bach's time was really scarce so the challenge was really big so to bring such outstanding compositions. I like counterpoint but it is needed a little bit of attention and patience.

It can be also good to 'see' the performance of the Brandenburg Concertos in a DVD so to have a better idea of what is behind that oeuvres.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I like Bach for how much sense he makes. I enjoy playing him, keyboard and flute stuff. But listening to it, not as much, unless it is the works that I enjoy playing. I love his flute sonatas, and although moments are tedious, he's just so fun to play somehow. He makes sense, and that's all I can say. Sense is good to me.

So, here's my suggestion. If you happen to play an instrument, especially piano, come to learn to play some of his works! You may get a whole lot more out of it than ever before.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Listen to Scarlatti instead.


D. Scarlatti is great, but recommending him as a substitute for Bach doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Can you give me some suggestions for D. Scarlatti's great choral works, concertos, works for organ, violin, flute, cello, lute, chamber works? etc.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

I guess I'm entitled to make a thread about Bach _being_my favorite.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

tdc said:


> D. Scarlatti is great, but recommending him as a substitute for Bach doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
> 
> Can you give me some suggestions for D. Scarlatti's great choral works, concertos, works for organ, violin, flute, cello, lute, chamber works? etc.


No, but I can suggest that you stop taking this so seriously.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Philip said:


> i immediately said to myself: This is what REAL music is supposed to be!!!


then i went home, yahooed "Bach fugue for guitar", and found:

Bach: Fugue for Lute in G minor, (BWV 1000)





This is still my favourite recording, favourite piece, and i doubt i'll ever find anything more meaningful. This piece touches my soul!!!


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> No, but I can suggest that you stop taking this so seriously.


So, in other words your response was a joke. Thanks for the clarification! :lol:


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

I really enjoyed watching the flashing lights of the Passacaglia and Fugue.

But I detected essentially no emotional content. The whole time it felt like Bach was just showing off what he could do with the organ. I felt no recognizably human dynamic. It wouldn't surprise me if someone could write a computer program to write similarly elaborate but soulless music. No wonder he could crank this stuff out en masse!

It's hard for me to get much of an emotional reaction from listening to Bach, but trying to follow the quasi-patterns can be engaging.

Edit: the choral excerpt has more of an impact because of the fascinating bizarreness of so many people modulating their voices in intricate patterns all in synch. I would hate to be surrounded by a hostile gang all singing at me in this manner.


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## Krisena (Jul 21, 2012)

I find the OP preposterous. Listen to the violin partitas, now.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

tdc said:


> So, in other words your response was a joke. Thanks for the clarification! :lol:


It wasn't a joke, I think you should just lighten up a bit.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Be afraid.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

If you want melody, why not try Schubert instead??


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Krisena said:


> I find the OP preposterous. Listen to the violin partitas, now.


Early in our relationship my wife was playing the 3rd partita. The prelude was magical to me. I could listen to it for hours it seemed (probably not quite that long). Later I heard the 2nd partita and found the chaconne simply wonderful. While I think there's plenty of melody, I can easily see someone viewing these works as devoid of melody and full of complexity - more intellectual than aesthetically beautiful. I like them for both, but even Bach is not for everyone.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Bach can be hard to get into. That's true. The music can be dense, non-melodic and dull. It is in a style that some people just aren't interested in. That being said, once you have cracked the code, Bach becomes not just a pleasurable experience but a transendental experience.

To understand and hence to enjoy Bach, you need to accept him for what he is; an insular Germanic, Late Baroque composer. That is important to keep in mind because it informs his entire output. You cannot expect Mozart or Wagner or Mahler or Stockhausen. AND, you cannot expect Handel or Vivaldi or Spumoni for all that.

Because Bach is German, he is more interested in harmony and harmonic rhythm over melody. Bachs melodies are often quite simple and very harmonic. You will not hear, even in his vocal works, melodies like you get from Handel. That's because Handel lived and studied in Italy and made a living in England. The English love a good melody and a not too complex harmonic structure.

Bachs music often has that germanic weight. There is little of the Italian lightnes to it. Bach never left Germany. He was aware of and admired the Italian composers but did not incorporate their styles into his. He was, after all, playing to a German, Lutheran audience. There is a feeling in Bachs music that it is Important. It has a depth and gravitas that few other composers can match. None can beat. Even the small pieces and the more "popular" works have the feeling lurking in the background.

Bach was a teacher as well as a composer. Much of his music has not just art but education as it's purpose. The most famous of these instructional works would be the Anna Magdalena Notebook and the Well Tempered Clavier, but there are also the 2 and 3 part inventions and the masive Art of the Fugue. However, there is in his music a little bit of the "Here, let me show you how it is done" as well as the "Let me show you what your instrument REALLY can do". He's not showing off so much as he is teaching people how they can improve and reach greater heights.

Bachs music does something that is very hard to do. It is at the same time perfectly logical and deeply emotional. He takes the rules of music for his time and works each piece out with the greatest logic and respect form those rules and yet it is not just a mental exercise. Even his Art of the Fugue, which was never intended as a performance piece touches the emotions and is an expresive work of art. To appreciate Bachs genius it is helpful to be aquainted with the rules he was working with. you do not need to be a music theorist, but a passing knowledge will reap great rewards. Learn especially what a fugue is and what it does.

No one is better at couterpointe than Bach. A simple definition of counterpointe is playing multiple different lines of music at the same time AND making them sound good. This involves making them harmonize and making them distinguishable to the ear when being played. This is hard enough with two lines but add three or four or five and it becomes almost impopssible. Bach could do it. What's more, he could improvise it. Unfortunately, this is one of the things that can make Bach to get into. If the counterpointe is played badly, it all mushes together and becomes an iritating wall of sound. With all compositions a good performance is important. With this kind of dense counterpointe it is essential.

Bach is a religious composer. He is also a mystical composer. It is not essential that the listener be either mystical or religious, but it does help to understand him by knowing that. Religion does not permeate his none religious works but it is in the back of his mind all the time and helps to create that sence of importance mentioned above. For Bach, everything he wrote was for the glory of God so everything had to be worthy of God, no matter how small or insignificant the work may seem.

If you have gotten to the bottom of this message, I hope I haven't bored you. I cannot guarantee that you will love Bach. Many people are just not keen on Baroque music or Bachs style with it. I find that sad, but taste is taste. However, if you have any interest in music beyond the top 40, you will be far the better musician and consumer of music bt becomming aquainted with the music of Herr Bach.

Some suggestions. Start small. Don't rush out and tackle the B minor Mass on your first go round. Try the more popular works and then dig deeper. Aquaint yourself with the Baroque style. Don't look upon it as a task that must be done, music should be enjoyable. If you get bored, listen to something else then come back to Bach. Listen to fewer works more often rather than many works once. In this case familiarity will not breed contempt but rather appreciation and understanding.

Try some of these.
Concerto for Two Violains 




Cello Suite 1 Prelude




Minuet in G 




Brandenberg Concerto 3




Brandenberg Concerto 2




Well Tempered Clavier Book 1 Prelude and Fugue in C




Well Tempered clavier Book 1 Prelude and Fugue in C minor




Jesu, Joy of Mans Desiring (The choir is singing a hymn to which Bach added the instrumental accompaniment)




"Little" Fugue in G minor




Gigue Fugue in G major




Another version showing how important clarity is in Baroque music




Toccata and fugue in D minor. Common horror movie music,


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I appreciate that Bach fans believe that once you get into his music, it is the best that is out there. I would like to point out however, that this is the same experience that many people have about their favourite composers.

Still, I have actually found this thread quite inspirational - :tiphat: to the Bachians for trying to do some converting for once - it's not every day they have to. Time for me to re-examine my Bach collection.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

tdc said:


> So, in other words your response was a joke. Thanks for the clarification! :lol:


Oh dear me, oh deary,deary me!


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

BPS said:


> I really enjoyed watching the flashing lights of the Passacaglia and Fugue.
> 
> But I detected essentially no emotional content. The whole time it felt like Bach was just showing off what he could do with the organ. I felt no recognizably human dynamic. It wouldn't surprise me if someone could write a computer program to write similarly elaborate but soulless music. No wonder he could crank this stuff out en masse!
> 
> ...


Goodness me! I feel the exact opposite! The Passacaglia contains almost every human emotion I can think of. It has reverence, playfulness, joy, mystery, contemplation, sadness and more all at different points. It is extremely skilled in its composition and I don't find it to be robotic in any way. If you don't find it to match the request of passionate harmony, I really can't counter that. These were only two pieces I could think of that I find to be melodic and full of exciting harmony as per the request - if you are looking for something else, then I'm sure other suggestions could be made. As for being 'soulless', Bach is one of the most soulful composers there is. His music was an expression of love and devotion to God and whether or not you are religious, you can recognise that Bach was devoutly so in his music. If you can't hear it or don't have the taste for it, no one will be able to help. I know it is a cliche, but it does take a little bit of time to get into Bach and I totally agree with an earlier poster about listening to his music being a 'transcendental' experience. I can't, however, understand the simultaneous criticisms of being too showy, too boring, too perfect, too robotic, too strange and lacking passion and/or melody. Perhaps it is the fact that Bach works with a limited medium i.e. non orchestral that is a block to your enjoyment?


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Bach is hardly one of my favorites ... I put him around 20th in my list after current list reforms.


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## hocket (Feb 21, 2010)

tdc said:


> D. Scarlatti is great, but recommending him as a substitute for Bach doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
> 
> Can you give me some suggestions for D. Scarlatti's great choral works, concertos, works for organ, violin, flute, cello, lute, chamber works? etc.


Whilst it may not be so well known, rather unjustly, Domenico did produce some really fantastic vocal music. Check out his stunning Stabat Mater for 10 voices for starters:






Obviously he's a lot less well known for music for instrumental ensemble, although there is a bit and naturally of quality.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> It wasn't a joke, I think you should just lighten up a bit.


I'm sorry you think I'm being too serious. I just thought the comparison you made was a bit silly, and was pointing out the reasons why. You then suggested I was taking things too 'seriously', as opposed to explaining why D. Scarlatti is a good substitute for J.S. Bach. So I assumed your post was made in jest. If its not, I'm sorry but I still think its a silly comparison.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

hocket said:


> Whilst it may not be so well known, rather unjustly, Domenico did produce some really fantastic vocal music. Check out his stunning Stabat Mater for 10 voices for starters:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm aware D. Scarlatti composed some vocal works aside from the 555 keyboard Sonatas he is most well-known for. Whether these works are considered truly great, I think is still open for debate (I'm not saying they aren't, but lets face it it is not what he is most well known for as a composer). You also haven't provided any examples for the other categories of music I requested examples for. So again, I don't think these composers are very much alike, or that one would be a good substitute for the other, aside from the fact they both composed music in the Baroque era.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

@ drpraetorus I agree with all of your post except for this one part:

"Bach... was aware of and admired the Italian composers but _did not incorporate their styles into his_."

I do believe Vivaldi would be the exception to this, and that Bach did actually incorporate a fair bit from Vivaldi's style into his.


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## hocket (Feb 21, 2010)

tdc said:


> So again, I don't think these composers are very much alike, or that one would be a good substitute for the other, aside from the fact they both composed music in the Baroque era.


The suggestion of Scarlatti appears to have been for the opportunity of exploring Baroque music further for someone who didn't like Bach and was looking for something with a greater emphasis on melody; rather than the rather baffling notion of trying to get someone to like Bach by making them listen to something that's the same but for no particularly good reason by somebody else entirely (!?). Zelenka? Fux? Domenico Scarlatti seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.

As for whether or not Domenico's vocal works are 'great', well, there's no accounting for taste.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Same with me. Hard to get into some of Bach's stuff, especialy to some of those neverending improvisations, but some of his music I really love. 
I also find, for example, Vivaldi much more enjoyable. That doesn't mean that Vivaldi is better, but he is easier to listen to since his compositions have stronger melody forms.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I love Bach's melody.






This is the most epically fast version of this I have heard 






And even fugues can be fun


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Bored said:


> Okay, btw nice profile pic!


i got into bach with the 5 brandenburgs - then b minor mass - wtc. i think because it is bach you should re-listen and be patient.
i wouldn't advise that with a minor figure like clementi- but you ought to discover bach.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

hocket said:


> The suggestion of Scarlatti appears to have been for the opportunity of exploring Baroque music further for someone who didn't like Bach and was looking for something with a greater emphasis on melody; rather than the rather baffling notion of trying to get someone to like Bach by making them listen to something that's the same but for no particularly good reason by somebody else entirely (!?). Zelenka? Fux? Domenico Scarlatti seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.
> 
> As for whether or not Domenico's vocal works are 'great', well, there's no accounting for taste.


I was just pointing it out because this isn't the first thread about Bach where the same poster has suggested that an individual listen to Scarlatti instead of Bach. I just don't see the point of that. Especially when no where in the OP does the poster ask for further baroque suggestions. But I will drop it now! And I never said the Scarlatti work you posted wasn't great.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

BWV 582 Passacaglia and Fugue, and Violin Partita 2's Chaconne - those two works, for me, comprise some of the most monumental achievements of mankind. They encompass the full spectrum of human emotion, and at the end it feels like I've just finished a long unforgettable journey. It conveys emotion that I cannot even describe in words - I just simply cannot! Yet, these emotions are very real and very strong. No other composer has ever affected me in *this* manner.

Yet, somehow, I can also see how some people could listen to the same pieces and find it emotionless. I think it has to do with their state of mind when listening, or their expectations, or something. It's not so clearcut, and I don't think I can explain the difference. I only hope that one day they'll give Bach another chance, and get the opportunity to appreciate these works, for they are truly wonderful works that have enriched my life.

Sorry for the rant, I just want to share my love of Bach, and hope that one day others can do so too.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

tdc said:


> I'm sorry you think I'm being too serious. I just thought the comparison you made was a bit silly, and was pointing out the reasons why. You then suggested I was taking things too 'seriously', as opposed to explaining why D. Scarlatti is a good substitute for J.S. Bach. So I assumed your post was made in jest. If its not, I'm sorry but I still think its a silly comparison.


My reasoning was simply that if they don't like Bach they should maybe listen to someone else, I could have just as easily suggested John Cage.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Bored said:


> ...
> 
> Can someone please help me to enjoy Bach more?


Well it took me a while to get into him as well (or get back into him after a long hiatus). I won't and can't go into too many technical things, I'm not a musician like you. But I am like you with him, some things I dig of his, some things I don't. But that's okay. Contrary to what some people (esp. online) think, there are no 'shoulds' in music. As a listener, I don't have to listen to anything, I just go with what I like, or have potential to, basically. Its not even like life, where you have two definites - death and taxes. In music, there's not even that kind of thing. Its a free world, you don't have to like anything.

Ok, here are pieces I connect with Bach.

- Cello suites 3 & 4: I agree with the gist of your opinion on cello suite #1 (and #2). I find them overall boring and too minimalistic. But the middle two ones I quite like, esp. the lively bits (the gigues). & the last two are interesting, but too kind of symphonic and 'big.' Rostropovich called one of them a symphony for solo cello. So its like Goldilocks, the 3rd and 4th for me are 'just right.' Try them and see what you think.

- Musical OFfering: I love the story behind this, as well as how Bach takes two themes (his own and what was reputedly composed by Frederick the Great) on a journey. I love the bouncy bits and the ricercar a 6 always floors me. So emotional, and speaks to a kind of contrast between static and inner emotion.

- Goldberg VAriations: Same as the Musical Offering, I love it how he takes a theme on a journey. Fascinating, and it does have some 'filler' and 'upholstery' bits, but they are more like a break between more profound/sublime canons and fugues.

- Chaconne from Partita for Violin #2: This is pure emotion, and a cathedral in sound, combining a motto of the name of Bach's first wife (who died at the time) as well as his own name and a religious hymn type tune. It kind of soars up and up and its a piece that has moved me to tears. Purists may not like Stokowski's rather Mahlerian orchestral transcription but that has the same effect on me emotionally as the original.

- Unfinished Fugue from The ARt of Fugue: The moment it stops is like when the composer died. Its like a half built cathedral, and when one of the big themes kind of fully comes out, it ends suddenly there. Such a moving moment, its one of those musical torsos that kind of works on its own terms.

- As I mentioned re Stokowski, why not try transcriptions of Bach? My favourites are Wendy Carlos on the Moog synthesiser (Switched on Bach album) and the Swingle Singers 'Jazz Sebastian Bach' album.

- The violin concetos, esp. the slow movement of the Double Violin Concerto, moved me to tears at a concert, after not hearing for years - it was my 'road to Damascus' moment with Bach. Came out of the blue, and I was open to letting in that pure emotion.



> ...
> I really want to, and my University Professor thinks i'm a fool for music when I stated this at an open debate in class.


Well Faure who said Bach should not be treated with too much reverence (which may be indicative of 'ivory tower' academia, or just groupies of BAch or anything), he would probably welcome questioning and debate. Faure's famous quote could be said today, the man was a modern thinker:

*"What really harms masterpieces is to fence them around with such excessive respect as to end up making them boring."*

So do try find performances of Bach that 'work' with you. You don't have to look too hard though, eg. Glenn Gould is one I've found really fitting to my enjoyment of Bach, as have been numerous performers in Australia and also on budget labels. & his music live in concert, I have found, is good too.


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## Bored (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice.


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