# Carlo Gesualdo



## SottoVoce

I don't know if there's a thread for him, but I've recently got into some of his madrigals, which are absolutely breathtaking. I remember reading about him in Aldous Huxley's _Doors of Perception_, where he called his music life-changing and one of the most beautiful he's ever heard, but I never was able to stumble upon him until now. He also conducted one of the most infamous murders in musical history, killing his wife and her lover, which I find morbidly interesting, as his music seems to reflect that; especially his Death for Five Voices. I'll start off with his perhaps his most famous madrigal, _Io Tacero_, which is what Huxley listened to in his book. Anyone else interested in this composer, or has some more music to share?


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## Manxfeeder

I've mostly paid attention to his sacred music, basically because I'm into sacred music. His take on it is not quite as radical as the madrigals, but it still depicts the struggle to express the human condition in the face of the divine. I think he's the musical equivalent of El Greco; the distortions heighten the drama.


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## hocket

Manxfeeder said:


> I think he's the musical equivalent of El Greco; the distortions heighten the drama.


I think that's a great description; I'll be nicking that when I want to sound intelligent. I'm not generally a huge fan of madrigals but I do think his are stunning and the recordings by La Venexiana and the Kassiopeia Quintet are superlative.


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## Vesteralen

I like madrigals. I've had Book 5 of the Gesualdo madrigals with The Consorte of Musicke and Emma Kirkby for some time (can't really go wrong with Ms Kirkby). I purchased Book Six with the Kassiopeia Quintet just before they came out with the reduced-price box set of all six books from the same group. Bad timing.

I started to read a biography/criticism of Gesualdo, but I was having a problem with dealing with the murders and I put it aside. Great music, though. 

I'm unsure at this point as to whether I prefer Monteverdi's or Gesualdo's madrigals, but at this poiint it's all good. 

I'm anxious to listen to your imbedded clip, but I have to wait till later.


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## SottoVoce

Vesteralen said:


> I'm unsure at this point as to whether I prefer Monteverdi's or Gesualdo's madrigals, but at this poiint it's all good.


I know what you mean. I have the same problem with Guillaume de Machaut's chansons and Gesualdo's madrigals. Both of them have a different character to them, and I'm sure Guillaume's chansons highly influenced Gesualdo's madrigals, but I tend to pick Gesualdo's most of the time; the exception is puis qu'en obli, which is perhaps my favorite chanson. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it.








> I started to read a biography/criticism of Gesualdo


Oh really? What did the book have to say about critiquing Gesualdo from what you read? I'd love to know what a scholar thinks about his music.


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## SottoVoce

Also, this is one of my Gesualdo's works that I enjoy a lot, I think my favorite motet by Gesualdo.


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## TresPicos

Sadly, I can't listen to his music without being bothered and spooked by the fact that it is music written by a murderer. I wish I could, because it is truly beautiful music.


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## Vesteralen

SottoVoce said:


> Oh really? What did the book have to say about critiquing Gesualdo from what you read? I'd love to know what a scholar thinks about his music.


This was the book I got from the library:










Most of the book is devoted to a study of the music. Unfortunately, I never got to that part because I couldn't finish the intial section (biography). I kept waiting for some big revelation that he really didn't murder his wife and her lover, but there doesn't seem to be any doubt that he did, and that he didn't feel much remorse over it. At that point, I kind of wished I'd only listened to the music and didn't know anything about him personally.


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## hocket

*Vesteralen wrote:*



> I kept waiting for some big revelation that he really didn't murder his wife and her lover, but there doesn't seem to be any doubt that he did, and that he didn't feel much remorse over it. At that point, I kind of wished I'd only listened to the music and didn't know anything about him personally.


I'm no expert on this but AFAIK current scholarship holds that he did suffer quite extreme remorse and much of his religious music is held to be penitential in nature. Here's just a few excerpts from his Wikipedia page:



> Late in life he suffered from depression. Whether or not it was related to the guilt over his multiple murders is difficult to prove, but the evidence is suggestive. According to Campanella, writing in Lyon in 1635, Gesualdo had himself beaten daily by his servants, keeping a special servant whose duty it was to beat him "at stool",[4] and he engaged in a relentless, and fruitless, correspondence with Cardinal Borromeo to obtain relics, i.e., skeletal remains, of his uncle Carlo, with which he hoped to obtain healing for his mental disorder and possibly absolution for his crimes. Gesualdo's late setting of Psalm 51, the Miserere, is distinguished by its insistent and imploring musical repetitions, alternating lines of monophonic chant with pungently chromatic polyphony in a low vocal tessitura.





> The evidence that Gesualdo was tortured by guilt for the remainder of his life is considerable, and he may have given expression to it in his music. One of the most obvious characteristics of his music is the extravagant text setting of words representing extremes of emotion: "love", "pain", "death", "ecstasy", "agony" and other similar words occur frequently in his madrigal texts, most of which he probably wrote himself. While this type of word-painting is common among madrigalists of the late 16th century, it reached an extreme development in Gesualdo's music.


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## Vesteralen

hocket said:


> *Vesteralen wrote:*
> 
> I'm no expert on this but AFAIK current scholarship holds that he did suffer quite extreme remorse and much of his religious music is held to be penitential in nature. Here's just a few excerpts from his Wikipedia page:


Interesting....maybe I should have kept reading.


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## Curiosity

TresPicos said:


> Sadly, I can't listen to his music without being bothered and spooked by the fact that it is music written by a murderer. I wish I could, because it is truly beautiful music.


She was a cheat. No sympathy.


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## TresPicos

Curiosity said:


> She was a cheat. No sympathy.


Judging the man by his later actions, he probably drove her to it.


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## SottoVoce

TresPicos said:


> Judging the man by his later actions, he probably drove her to it.


Could be true. According to wikipedia:



> Accounts on events after the murders differ. According to some sources, Gesualdo also murdered his second son by Maria, who was an infant, after looking into his eyes and doubting his paternity (according to a 19th century source he "swung the infant around in his cradle until the breath left his body"); another source indicates that he murdered his father-in-law as well, after the man had come seeking revenge. Gesualdo had employed a company of men-at-arms to ward off just such an event. However, contemporary documentation from official sources for either of these alleged murders is lacking.


It does say official sources are lacking, however even if he didn't do them it's obvious their relationship with each other wasn't too serene. He seems to have been a violent and unpredictable man even before he was provoked by his wife's affair, some attributing it to a mental illness; I wouldn't doubt it.

I also just found out that there is a movie by Werner Herzog about his works and his music. It's called *Death for Five Voices*, if anyone wants to check out. Thinking about trying to look around and finding it tonight.

Here is another Gesualdo piece that I've enjoyed *a lot*. If anyone could find the lyrics, that would be great.


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## hocket

Regarding the supposed further killings I suspect this is just the rumour mill working overtime around someone who was already notorious. There was probably talk whenever someone popped their clogs anywhere in his general vicinity. Apparently his relationship with his second wife was dreadful too though. Mind you, his behaviour seems fairly mild compared with someone like Caravaggio. You shouldn't forget that this was a very different era. Queen Elizabeth I, widely regarded as the epitome of grace and tolerance, once stabbed a serving girl through the hand with a fork for a minor failure in her duties...


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## SottoVoce

hocket said:


> Regarding the supposed further killings I suspect this is just the rumour mill working overtime around someone who was already notorious. There was probably talk whenever someone popped their clogs anywhere in his general vicinity. Apparently his relationship with his second wife was dreadful too though. Mind you, his behaviour seems fairly mild compared with someone like Caravaggio. You shouldn't forget that this was a very different era. Queen Elizabeth I, widely regarded as the epitome of grace and tolerance, once stabbed a serving girl through the hand with a fork for a minor failure in her duties...


Really? I always saw Caravaggio as somewhat of a childish troublemaker who liked getting into brawls, just happening to have killed someone in one of his destructive rampages; as far as I know, they were unintentional and the two were in a duel. However, if you read how the Gesualdo murders, you can right off the bat tell that it was the work of a very very ill man; as Wikipedia states, even 400 years later it is a shocking and heavily violent read. You may be right about the other murders though, but it just goes to show how tumultuous their relationship was.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Yes... the Caravaggio murder was simply the result of a dispute over a tennis match gone bad. Gesualdo's murder of his wife and her lover was premeditated, brutal... and quite twisted. He did not simply catch his wife in the act and lose it. Rather, he planned the whole thing, pretending to go away and having a servant secretly let him back in. Depositions of witnesses to the magistrates have survived in full. While they disagree on some details, they agree on the principal points, and it is apparent that Gesualdo had help from his servants, who may have done most of the killing; however, Gesualdo certainly stabbed Maria multiple times, shouting as he did, "she's not dead yet!" The Duke of Andria (his wife's lover) was found slaughtered by numerous deep sword wounds, as well as by a shot through the head. When he was found, he was dressed in women's clothing (Maria's night dress). His own clothing was found piled up by the bedside, unbloodied. It is suspected that Gesualdo forced him to dress in his his lover's clothing and beg for mercy as a means of humilation. The bloody bodies were then dumped on the front steps of his palace for all to see. Being an aristocrat, he was immune from prosecution, but not from revenge carried out by the aristocratic relatives of his wife or her lover. As such, Gesualdo fled to his castle at Venosa.


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## hocket

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Caravaggio and suggest that you have a look at Andrew Graham-Dixon's superb programme on the death of Caravaggio. This shows you the real world of vendetta that Caravaggio revelled in and that there was nothing innocent about the murder (which may only have been the one that he got into trouble for). The idea that he was some sort of childish savant is frankly absurd and the programme goes on to show that the Neapolitan artists were a good deal more malevolent still.


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## GoneBaroque

There are cultures which believe that a mentally disturbed individual is one who has been touched by God. I could be argued that only someone "touched by God" could compose such exalted music. Who among us is worthy to judge?


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## SottoVoce

hocket said:


> Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of Caravaggio and suggest that you have a look at Andrew Graham-Dixon's superb programme on the death of Caravaggio. This shows you the real world of vendetta that Caravaggio revelled in and that there was nothing innocent about the murder (which may only have been the one that he got into trouble for). The idea that he was some sort of childish savant is frankly absurd and the programme goes on to show that the Neapolitan artists were a good deal more malevolent still.


I'll take a look at it, thanks; it'd be nice to see it from a different perspective. Nonetheless, it'd be hard to quantify which is more "disturbed" than the other and I think it's safe to say that both were mentally ill, but far ahead of their time, individuals.



> There are cultures which believe that a mentally disturbed individual is one who has been touched by God. I could be argued that only someone "touched by God" could compose such exalted music. Who among us is worthy to judge?


What cultures are that? That's a very interesting concept, something that I'd like to look further into.


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## Gustavoarteaga

SottoVoce said:


> I don't know if there's a thread for him, but I've recently got into some of his madrigals, which are absolutely breathtaking. I remember reading about him in Aldous Huxley's _Doors of Perception_, where he called his music life-changing and one of the most beautiful he's ever heard, but I never was able to stumble upon him until now. He also conducted one of the most infamous murders in musical history, killing his wife and her lover, which I find morbidly interesting, as his music seems to reflect that; especially his Death for Five Voices. I'll start off with his perhaps his most famous madrigal, _Io Tacero_, which is what Huxley listened to in his book. Anyone else interested in this composer, or has some more music to share?


Hi. Here is a link to another of Gesualdo's madrigals: "Belta, poi che t'assenti" also sung by the same Consort some years later.


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## aleazk

Gesualdo is certainly one of my favorites...


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## science

Wow. Anyway, which books of Gesualdo's madrigals would you recommend most highly? Or, which would you judge are most highly regarded by others? And of course, are there any particular recordings of his madrigals that you love or that are considered classic?


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## norman bates

science said:


> Wow. Anyway, which books of Gesualdo's madrigals would you recommend most highly? Or, which would you judge are most highly regarded by others? And of course, are there any particular recordings of his madrigals that you love or that are considered classic?


i'm not an expert of his music, but i think that the fifth book is considered the best.


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## StlukesguildOhio

This!!










And then books 4 & 5 of the Madrigals:




























This I haven't heard yet... but considering the splendors of their production of the _Lamentations_ (Tenebrae) I expect good things:


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## Romantic Geek

When I heard this one, my mouth dropped open:






I've never heard something so dissonant before. And the text of _O Vos Omnes_ is just so downright depressing. But this is probably one of the most radical pieces I've ever heard. And yes, this is above Penderecki and Schoenberg and all of them in radical. This is just off-the-charts for the Renaissance sacred style.


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## aleazk

^ I always loved the change in 1:25.


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## humanbean

I've always loved this one. It's somewhat quirky at moments, but it's also very beautiful at the same time.


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## Tyran

My take on the Hilliard Ensemble's new madrigal recording for ECM:
http://ecmreviews.com/2012/12/05/gesualdo-madrigali/


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## Hausmusik

*Gesualdo*

Advice on Gesualdo anyone?

I already have the Summerly Complete Sacred Music for 5 voices on Naxos and the BBC Magazine disc with the Tenebrae for Good Friday and three motets (some overlap with the Summerly disc). Any other suggestions?

In particular, where to begin with the Madrigals? Book one? One of the later books?


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## science

I only have Book 4, by La Venexiana, recommended by "Giordano Bruno."


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## Guest

I have the 4th and 5th Books of Madrigals by La Venexiana on the Glossa label. I purchased them based on recommendations. Good places to start.


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## SONNET CLV

Don't overlook this collection from NAXOS:









GESUALDO, C.: The Complete Madrigals (7-CD Box Set)

Carlo Gesualdo, Prince of Venosa, became famous for two reasons: the bloody double murder of his first wife and her lover, and his passionate and erotic view of profane love. The Books of Madrigals chart the strong changes in his style, and contain some of the most inspired and anguished vocal works in the entire madrigal repertoire, on the themes of love, rejection, death, suffering, joy and sorrow. Brimming with often astonishing and sometimes unpredictable melodic and tonal contrasts to express the agonies and ecstasies of love, Gesualdo's Madrigals show him to have been one of the most inventive and eccentric musical minds of his age.


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## Blake

The Hilliard Ensemble also does a little sum'n sum'n.

_Quinto Libro di Madrigali_








_Tenebrae_


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## StlukesguildOhio

La Venexiana and the Hilliards are exceptional. You really want books 4 & 5 of the madrigals and the _Tenebrae Responsoria_ which are the works where he really pushes things



Anthony Rooley and the Consort of Musicke are also excellent:


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## EdwardBast

The Sixth book. That is where a lot of the really strange stuff is. Definitely get the Sixth.


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## deprofundis

I have so mutch Gesualdo works to lisen , his sacred music on naxos by oxford camerata is nice, tenebrae responsories by
sei voici on erato veritas (serie) is quite something i never heard better Gesualdo i nmy life ,has for his box set of madrigalS on naxos SONNET CLV i agree the conductor and his ensemble done a wonderful job delitiae musicae and mister Marco Longhini bless them.

I would like to mention madrigal 4 is one of my favorite.


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## deprofundis

I have an anecdote about Gesualdo he quickly become one of my favorite composer, a friend of mine was hook by his music
so we decide to have a short lisen whit a newbie has soon has he heard Gesualdo is eye were astonish by the greatness of
his music he was blown aways , and i smile and i was like hmm i know how you feel Buddy.


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## Mandryka

I thought about Gesualdo while listening to some completely different music, William Lawes played on lyra viol by Jonathan Dunford. I think anyone who likes Gesualdo will appreciate the Lawes and some of the tunings of the lyra viol, particularly the tunings called "eights" and "harp way flat."

Having said that Lawes and Gesualdo were contemporaries I think, so maybe it's not that strange.

Re Gesualdo, in Herzog's film they talk about him leaving a child hanging from a balcony to die, while people sang some of Gesualdo's own madrigals in the courtyard below. Is it true?


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## Lukecash12

Could have sworn he had a thread in the guestbooks, but it looks like he doesn't. The book 5 and book 6 madrigals were staggeringly original, especially given the time. And _Vos omnes_ is something I can listen to repeatedly and struggle to understand:






Was he brilliant _because_ he was mad?


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## GioCar

Lukecash12 said:


> Could have sworn he had a thread in the guestbooks, but it looks like he doesn't.


The thread is here

http://www.talkclassical.com/14318-carlo-gesualdo.html

Can we merge yours with the former one?


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## Lukecash12

GioCar said:


> The thread is here
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/14318-carlo-gesualdo.html
> 
> Can we merge yours with the former one?


Thanks. For some reason I couldn't find it.


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