# Music of despair, struggle and pain ?



## NothungWorld (Feb 27, 2017)

I would love to get suggestions on any specific piece of music 
that can reflect and reproduce the sense of these words, these feelings:

Despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, fateful, crucial, 
sadness, cracked, hopelessness, crushed. To face your destiny.​
My own suggestion is 7:25 minutes into Beethoven Marcia funebre 
"Eroica" Op.55, middle sectionen. Absolutely fantastic music.

Any suggestions?


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

First thing that comes to mind is Allan Pettersson's symphonies...particularly the 6th and 7th for me.


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

The Adagio of Mahler's 10th, brings to me all of the human emotions in a single, solitary work:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

WildThing said:


> First thing that comes to mind is Allan Pettersson's symphonies...particularly the 6th and 7th for me.


Yeah. I've been recommending the Pettersson Seventh a lot for those who really want anguish and anger in their music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would also recommend the final adagio of Mahler 9, written by a dying man who was fully aware the end was near.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Liszt--Après une lecture du Dante. A musical representation of Dante's Divine Comedy, particularly the Inferno. The music is appropriately diabolical and threatening. Many biting dissonances and declamatory outbursts. There are only a few fleeting moments of hope and bliss, which perhaps represent Heaven...and then the music rapidly plunges back into Hell!


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Tchaikovsky- Pathetique Symphony. And not just the last movement. Tchaikovsky said that "The ultimate essence ... of the symphony is Life. First part – all impulse, passion, confidence, thirst for activity. Must be short (the finale death – result of collapse). Second part love: third disappointments; fourth ends dying away (also short)." What I find most interesting that he calls the third movement disappointments. If you would interpret it that way, it almost sounds ironic- something Mahler was great at. 

Also, Mahler- Tragic Symphony.
Barber- Adagio for Strings.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Tchaikovsky's 4th, first movement.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mahler 9, closeted to despair, struggle and pain you ever get.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

No need to look any further than mozart's g minor.

it expresses sorrow and pain without the wallowing


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mozart never wallows.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

First movement of Beethoven's string quartet in c sharp minor op 131. Incredibly sad and painful... also the amazing 3rd movement of the Hammerklavier.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Any of Handel's oratorios, Bach Passions.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Sibelius - Symphony No.4 - 3rd Movement


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

_WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> I would also recommend the final adagio of Mahler 9, written by a dying man who was fully aware the end was near.


Seconding Mahler's 9th, notably fourth movement. The despair here always hits me in the gut.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


Because it is cathartic, especially if one has been bereaved.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


I think that there is an important distinction between having a long piece that takes you through such pain and brings you out on the other side, and a piece that just leaves you there.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

OK - what about the middle movt of mozart's pc 23.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


Let me take a stab at this one: Because he's sensitive to the human condition?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I would also recommend the final adagio of Mahler 9, written by a dying man who was fully aware the end was near.


My feeling on the final movement of Mahler's Ninth, is it sounds sort of optimistic, like throwing off one's burdens.. maybe I should hear it again.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Karlheinz Immergluck's Symphony in g minor, "Life is Horrible."


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MarkW said:


> Karlheinz Immergluck's Symphony in g minor, "Life is Horrible."


That's a very ominous title .


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

NothungWorld said:


> I would love to get suggestions on any specific piece of music
> that can reflect and reproduce the sense of these words, these feelings:
> 
> Despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, fateful, crucial,
> ...


I definitely agree with this. That movement, for the time it was written, is extraordinarily heartbreaking. There is a ***** of light when the C major section appears but it is soon drowned out by the shadows in Beethoven's neurons. I think that it is the most sombre of movements amongst his symphonies. I put it on par with Moonlight Sonata (1st mov) 'Ghost' Trio (2nd mov) and String Quartet No.14 (1st mov).


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

How about Schumann Piano concerto? don't know I'm currently listening to it and it gives me sort of feeling of despair.

Something from Rachmaninoff too, some of his preludes ( in c sharp minor for example) or Etudes-tableaux ? 
Chopin Preludes, in minor keys, as an example in d minor the 24th would be quite good for this topic and his second sonata as well, first movement, let alone the slow one...or 2nd scherzo?

mmm.....don't know a lot of piano music comes to mind


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

The Adagio movement of Khachaturian's Gayane Ballet Suite.

Ligeti's Requiem


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

some more: Grieg Piano concerto, especially 1st movement.
Saint-Saens 2nd piano concerto 1st movement
Grieg String quartet in g-minor

it seems like there are so much pain expressed in music so that I don't know where to stop , many examples come to mind...


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Schnittke's Piano Quintet. 
Actually a lot of Schnittke's music would work, but the Piano Quintet in particular.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Struggle, (hope that swiftly turns to) hopeless, and crushed is the recipe for the finale of Mahler's 6th!


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

helenora said:


> How about Schumann Piano concerto? don't know I'm currently listening to it and it gives me sort of feeling of despair.
> 
> Something from Rachmaninoff too, some of his preludes ( in c sharp minor for example) or Etudes-tableaux ?
> Chopin Preludes, in minor keys, as an example in d minor the 24th would be quite good for this topic and his second sonata as well, first movement, let alone the slow one...or 2nd scherzo?
> ...


Maybe the first movement of the Schumann- but the last movement ends triumphantly- so I wouldn't consider it a piece of "despair" overall. But if you meant just the first movement I would agree.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

There can be a kind of wistful pleasure in a touch of melancholy, but I don't understand why anyone would want a musical piece of even moderate length to be pure emotional agony from beginning to end. The shared tragedy of Poe's famous poems "The Raven" and "Annabel Lee" is that the narrators have not only experienced the death of a beloved (made somewhat worse because she was beautiful and young), but cannot or will not move beyond that moment and get back on with the business of life. That choice makes the grief perpetual, a fate accepted perhaps, because the grief comes with holding on to as much of their memories as they can, and moving on means letting go of at least a part of that.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


Well, Simon, it's like this: there's the blues, and there's Zip-ah-dee-doo-dah.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I think Transfigured Night is one of the most emotional works I have ever heard. Also, Barber's Adagio for Strings. Wow! Like sunlight streaming through an open window.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

NothungWorld said:


> I would love to get suggestions on any specific piece of music
> that can reflect and reproduce the sense of these words, these feelings:
> 
> Despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, fateful, crucial,
> ...


 Siegfried's Funeral March by Richard Wagner.

Aus Tiefer Not Schrei Ich Zu Dir BWV 866, by Johann Sebastian Bach. Try to find the outrageously romantic performance by Pierre Cochereau.

Mozart's Masonic Funeral Music, K477

Charles Valentin Alkan, Marcia Funebre Sulla Morte d'un Papagallo


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## Rhinotop (Jul 8, 2016)

2nd movement from String quintet by Schubert, one great example for those feelings.


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Barber's Adagio for Strings. No other piece has ever affected me like this one ~ I felt _gutted_ after my first listen. 

Rachmaninoff - Trio Elegiaque No. 2 (piano, violin, cello)






Written by (20 year old) Sergei in tribute & in grief for his idol Tchaikovsky immediately after his death,
this *dark* piece is, (to borrow another reviewer's words) "dreadfully beautiful".

_(Warning .... these pieces should not be listened to while under the influence of alcohol!)_


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For bittersweet sadness, nothing for me beats Mozart's last Piano Concerto No. 27 in B Flat.

It's as if at K. 595, Mozart already knew the end was fast approaching.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Shostakovich 14?
Barber 1st essay for orchestra
William Schuman 9th symphony


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

The slow movement of Schubert's D959


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Shostakovich Symphony #8, #14


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## lluissineu (Dec 27, 2016)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


Easy: we are massochist. At least I am 

My whip Is Tchaikovsky pathetic symph.,, funeral march of Britten variations on a theme of Frank Bridge, Barber's adagio, 2nd movement of Ravel's piano concerto, Dvorak's New World Symph. adagio...


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Let me take a stab at this one: Because he's sensitive to the human condition?


So the human condition is miserable? Twaddle.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

millionrainbows said:


> Well, Simon, it's like this: there's the blues, and there's Zip-ah-dee-doo-dah.


And nothing in between or outside those two? Hope, courage, optimism, achievement, cheerfulness, love, kindness, reason, curiosity, sanity and common sense?


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

NothungWorld said:


> I would love to get suggestions on any specific piece of music
> that can reflect and reproduce the sense of these words, these feelings:
> 
> Despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, fateful, crucial,
> sadness, cracked, hopelessness, crushed. To face your destiny.​


If you're purposely wanting a sadistic experience, try to find the CD that contains Richard Nanes' Symphony 3 (_The Holocaust_) and Symphony 4 (_The Eternal Conflict_). It's probably on YouTube. I can only assume that Nanes intended for the music to meet all the feelings that you listed. On top of that, the music is so bad that the listening experience will meet all those feelings as well. I wonder if Nanes wrote the music with the dark themes in mind or if the music just turned out to be bad so he gave them dark names to try to make it seem like it was his intention to write dark music. Ah, the mysteries that will pop into your head when listening to Richard Nanes. I brought this CD for like a buck some time back as a joke. To be fair to Mr. Nanes, I've heard worse classical music from composers who are taken more seriously.


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## Rhinotop (Jul 8, 2016)

Two fourth symphonies: Shostakovich and Schmidt


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The first three movements of Mozart's String Quintet in G minor, written just after the death of his influential, but annoying father.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mendelssohn's final String Quartet in F minor, written after the death of his beloved sister Fanny. Intense anguish.

Mendelssohn himself was to die less than 6 months later at 38.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Mendelssohn's final String Quartet in F minor, written after the death of his beloved sister Fanny. Intense anguish.
> 
> Mendelssohn himself was to die less than 6 months later at 38.


A wonderful piece of music!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

arnerich said:


> A wonderful piece of music!


As is Mendelssohn's A minor quartet, another work full of emotion, influenced by Beethoven's great A minor string quartet.

The best of Mendelssohn, IMO, is to be found in his chamber music-the two piano trios and the six (mature) string quartets.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

SimonTemplar said:


> _WHY_ do you want to listen to music of despair, brokenness, suffering, pain, struggle, sadness, and hopelessness?


I can only speak personally, but i'll tell you why such music is the most rewarding to me. To me classical music may evoke every sentiment im capable of, but the most moving and powerful effect is the channeling of the more darker emotions. In troubled times, no piece can cheer me up, but they can put those feelings into sound. Theres something incredibly consoling of giving this torrent of undefinable emotions an identity of sorts, giving it something substantial. Its a way for me to experience an expression of what mere words could never hope to encompass.

It doesnt excerbate melancholy, it gives voice to it, and trough it i find relief. Somewhat similar to the productive side effect, when you combine a solid punching bag with a hellish fury  It can temporarily cure what only time can normally.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Mahler 9 is the obvious answer that has been reiterated many times throughout the thread. 

I don't think you will find a piece that expresses extreme suffering quite like the Mahler 9 does. You will find sad pieces, just not as extreme.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

Great thread.

I'll submit Bartok's 1st string quartet. Although I don't hear it as sad (I can't group music into sad/happy/etc..), the backstory of its genesis was one of heartbreak. From what I've read, BB composed it as a kind of catharsis and emotional purge. Whatever the emotional content, either actual or implied, it's a major work; truly fantastic.

Regards,
-09


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

stomanek said:


> No need to look any further than mozart's g minor.
> it expresses sorrow and pain without the wallowing


Strange. I hear no sorrow or pain there at all.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Brahms late solo piano pieces are all filled with a sense of isolation, sadness, loneliness and despair.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

LesCyclopes said:


> Strange. I hear no sorrow or pain there at all.


Me neither, not as such, as pain in real life.


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## NothungWorld (Feb 27, 2017)

Because it is a part of life.


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