# Recording comparison--Brahms Violin Concerto Allegro Non Troppo



## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Hello People,

I am a great fan of Brahms' symphonic compositions, and my favorite composition by him is the first movement of his Violin Concerto. Now I am comparing between two recordings--Jascha Heifetz with Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Reiner and David Oistrakh with French National Radio Orchestra conducted by Klemperer. I have also listened to a few modern recordings such as Itzhak Perlman and Hilary Hahn's recordings but they haven't impressed me so far. The Heifetz and Oistrakh recordings are available on YouTube. What are your thoughts on how they did the first movement rrespectively?

I like Oistrakh more--his performance is always full of emotions, and every single note is moving. Apparently, Oistarkh is not as good as Heifetz in terms of techniques, but he does not need them that much. He keeps the performance not that showy and focus more on the musical feelings of the whole composition. Heifetz's performance is also nice, but I don't like he sometimes "plays the music" better than bringing out the emotion. Also, Heifetz's fast tempi always brings me a feeling of Heifetz himself wants to finish the performance as quick as he possibly can, just like a youth orchestra at performance. I know this kind of feeling is unrealistic for sure, but I just don't like it and can't get rid of it.

So for those who had listened to both recordings, what are your thoughts? And is there any other recordings that might be even better than these two epical performances? Please let me know!

Merry Christmas,
Kevin


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

For someone who's relatively new to this stuff, your insight is excellent. Like the guy says in "The Karate Kid": "You have learned much, Grasshopper". 

I have little to add to what you say above, except perhaps to say that even if (and I do say "if" because I'm not persuaded it's true) Oistrakh's technique wasn't as pristine as Heifetz's, there wasn't much in it. Like you I definitely prefer the kind of balance which Oistrakh achieves between stellar technique and sheer musicality of performance. Not sure about "better" but for a different style of performance, more clean-cut but _possibly_ more in keeping with Brahms' relatively restrained musical ethos, you might want to try Grumiaux, preferably the performance conducted by Eduard van Beinum.

Last but not least, a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Shouldn't this either be under recordings or orchestral music? This is an example of what I  meant with sprawl despite subfora.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

The Brahms Violin Concerto is my favorite work, and I completely agree that Oistrakh/Klemperer gets to the heart of the work, whereas Heifetz/Reiner treats it as a showpiece.

The best of all, however, is Krebbers/Haitink. That recording absolutely nails the work from start to finish. I also like Perlman/Giulini (dark and probing) and Milstein/Fistoulari (faster and very beautiful in its own way).

But there are tons of great historical accounts as well:

Huberman/Rodzinski (quite fiery and dramatic)
Kreisler/Blech (beautifully poetic)
Heifetz/Koussevitzky (not nearly as cold as with Reiner, quite poetic actually)
Szigeti/Harty 
Neveu/Dobrowen (or Neveu/Desormiere)
Busch/Münch
Zimbalist/Koussevitzky


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> Shouldn't this either be under recordings or orchestral music? This is an example of what I meant with sprawl despite subfora.


Not a big deal, but sure, those two categories would work; so does classical music discussion.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Animal the Drummer said:


> For someone who's relatively new to this stuff, your insight is excellent. Like the guy says in "The Karate Kid": "You have learned much, Grasshopper".


I have been listening to this composition for three months, so I actually get it pretty well. Also, I have listened to other recordings by Heifetz and Oistrakh, and the feelings are overall the same. Heifetz plays many music as a show-off, but Oistrakh is more emotional. Heifetz is better at techniques and Oistrakh does the music better. This is why he is my best violinst.



> I have little to add to what you say above, except perhaps to say that even if (and I do say "if" because I'm not persuaded it's true) Oistrakh's technique wasn't as pristine as Heifetz's, there wasn't much in it.


I agree. As I said, Heifetz's technique seems to be better because he shows off in many performances. I don't hate Heifetz, though, because he obviously elevates the standard of violin techniques, the problem is just he is not as musical as Oistrakh.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

KevinW said:


> Hello People,
> 
> I am a great fan of Brahms' symphonic compositions, and my favorite composition by him is the first movement of his Violin Concerto. Now I am comparing between two recordings--Jascha Heifetz with Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Reiner and David Oistrakh with French National Radio Orchestra conducted by Klemperer. I have also listened to a few modern recordings such as Itzhak Perlman and Hilary Hahn's recordings but they haven't impressed me so far. The Heifetz and Oistrakh recordings are available on YouTube. What are your thoughts on how they did the first movement rrespectively?
> 
> ...


What exactly could Oistrakh not do technically that Heifetz could?
My current favorite is Leonid Kogan with the Boston SO conducted by Pierre Monteux


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Triplets said:


> What exactly could Oistrakh not do technically that Heifetz could?


Good point. I don't think there is any. Heifetz just likes to show off more.



Triplets said:


> My current favorite is Leonid Kogan with the Boston SO conducted by Pierre Monteux


I will check that up. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I think because of his humble physical appearance people assume Oistrakh might not be a good virtuoso. Similarly, because of his "sensitive" facial expression and general mien people assume Heifetz must be a good artist... I believe both arguments are erroneous. :lol:


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Highwayman said:


> I think because of his humble physical appearance people assume Oistrakh might not be a good virtuoso. Similarly, because of his "sensitive" facial expression and general mien people assume Heifetz must be a good artist... I believe both arguments are erroneous. :lol:


Uh, instead I actually think it is because of David Oistrakh's physical humbleness that he is more affluent in emotions.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Heifetz and Oistrakh are probably my two favorite violinists overall, so I wouldn't want to judge either or....I love the Heifetz/Reiner Brahms....but I also enjoy the Szeryng/Monteux/LSO.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Many years ago I saw (and heard) David Oistrakh play the Brahms at a concert in Copenhagen. It was - as expected - a warm and spirited interpretation without any tendency to show-off.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Yes, Kogan was another great Brahms VC interpreter, very passionate. He left no less than 8 recordings. His live recordings with Eliasberg and Monteux are excellent, but I think the studio EMI recording with Kondrashin is no less great.

Another great Brahms interpreter was Christian Ferras, particularly his earlier versions with Kempe (live) and Schuricht (studio). Another violinist who played it with heart.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

This has the strengths of both the Heifetz and the Oistrakh:


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

KevinW said:


> ...I like Oistrakh more--his performance is always full of emotions, and every single note is moving. Apparently, Oistarkh is not as good as Heifetz in terms of techniques, but he does not need them that much. He keeps the performance not that showy and focus more on the musical feelings of the whole composition. Heifetz's performance is also nice, but I don't like he sometimes "plays the music" better than bringing out the emotion. Also, Heifetz's fast tempi always brings me a feeling of Heifetz himself wants to finish the performance as quick as he possibly can, just like a youth orchestra at performance. I know this kind of feeling is unrealistic for sure, but I just don't like it and can't get rid of it. ...


I have both Oistrakh and Heifetz playing the Brahms and the Tchaikovsky concertos, my favorite violin concertos. I heard Heifetz first and listened to his Tchaikovsky many times before hearing Oistrakh. I loved Heifetz and found myself feeling that the Oistrakh was a bit too slow. After awhile, my view changed. I felt that Heifetz played some of the runs too fast, and that Oistrakh brought out more of the beauty. I would say that, as much as I like Heifetz, I prefer Oistrakh's performance on both concertos.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

I feel Oistrakh and Konwitschny with the Staatskapelle Dresden from 1954 (in mono only) is an even better performance than the Oistrakh/Klemperer.

For stereo, my first choice recommendation is Szeryng/Monteux with the London Symphony. Milstein/Fistoulari with the Philharmonia Orchestra and Grumiaux/Van Beinum with the Amsterdam (Royal) Concertgebouw Orchestra are also very fine.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I used to hate Heifetz, but came to like his way with certain things, especially in this. I don't agree that Heifetz is not as "musical" as Oistrakh, or treats it like a showpiece, he just has a different temperament. What I used to hear him as breezing through the gestures, I hear it as forward momentum now, with greater sense of unity, and bringing out certain textures of sound. The way he leads out of the cadenza to the theme in the first movement to me is absolutely beautiful, while Oistrakh brought out a certain mystery in his interpretation at the same spot.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Did Francescatti record the Brahms VC?? He must have....I heard him play it with RochesterPO years ago - it was beautiful...He had a great sound...


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Oistrakh/Klemperer is hard to beat but Szeryng/Monteux (Szeryng/Doráti is also good) and Ferras/Schuricht are very close. I think Schneiderhan/van Kempen also deserves mention because of its intensity. Kogan and Szigeti are also very good I reckon.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Since we're talking about this concerto here's an amazing performance of the cadenza which for me would be worth the whole price of admission if I'd been at this concert. Generally, the transition from the cadenza to the orchestra in the Brahms VC is one of the great moments in all violin+orchestra works. I've often thought that Brahms was trying to match Beethoven here because the similar cadenza to orchestra transition in the Beethoven VN is also one of the great moments.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> Did Francescatti record the Brahms VC?? He must have....


At least twice commercially, with Ormandy and Bernstein. Plus there are several live recordings on various labels.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Again, I think Krebbers/Haitink gets to the heart of the first movement better than anyone. I first learned of it when the Penguin Guide listed it as their top recommendation. It is in the same vein as Grumiaux/Van Beinum and Szeryng/Monteux (i.e. more poetic than virtuosic) but with Krebbers there is more depth and beauty of tone.

This is the only upload available on YouTube, though the sound is not bad. But I can vouch that the CD transfer is excellent.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

wkasimer said:


> At least twice commercially, with Ormandy and Bernstein. Plus there are several live recordings on various labels.


Also with Mitropoulos, Leinsdorf, and Bouer. The Ormandy version is a real winner.

EDIT: Just came upon this recent release and put it on order


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

DaveM said:


> I've often thought that Brahms was trying to match Beethoven here because the similar cadenza to orchestra transition in the Beethoven VN is also one of the great moments.


Yes, Nice moment for the Bassoon!!


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

For me, this masterpiece requires not just virtuosity, strength, expression of emotions from the violinist, but more importantly, a grasp of the large structure and a mastery of subtle details (reflecting Brahms' "developing variation" approach in the piece). I view the orchestral parts equally important as the solo part in this piece.

Considering both the performance and the sound quality, here are 3 of my favorites:
1. Grumiaux, van Beinum, RCO 1958 Philips
My current favorite performance in good stereo sound (a bit dated).
2. Oistrakh, Klemperer, 1960 EMI
A classic performance. Good sound quality (a bit dated).
3. Ferras, Karajan, BPO 1964 DG
My favorite among Karajan's recordings of the piece. A bit better sound quality than the aboves.

Other great recording include: Szeryng's recordings on Philips and Mercury, Perlman with Giulini on EMI, Szigeti with Menges on Philips etc. Frankly, I am not a fan of Heifetz's recording of the works of the 3Bs in general.


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