# Best symphonies in F major



## ScipioAfricanus

There is something refreshing about symphonies in F major. They are not sorrowful and they always evoke some aspect of nature.
My ranking is as follows
1. Beethoven's 6th
2. Raff's 3rd
3. Draeseke's 2nd
4. Brahms 3rd
5. Dvorak 5th.


----------



## GraemeG

Raff, Draeseke, THEN Brahms?

a personal ranking, indeed...
Graeme


----------



## ScipioAfricanus

yep. Brahms basically used the structure of Raff's, even to bringing back the main theme of the first movement to end the last movement.


----------



## Fsharpmajor

Here's list of symphonies in F major, which might be helpful for this thread:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphonies_in_F_major*


----------



## beeri

F major is one of my least favorite keys. Something about that open violin E string on the leading tone... yuck


----------



## Jaime77

Who is Draeseke? May I ask  I heard of Raff but not this guy. Brahms 3rd is my least favourite of his symphonies but it is a masterpiece. Also Haydn, really great composer I think and he wrote a few F major symphonies, inluding some later ones, which though I don't know them are part of one of the great symphony evolution stories in music history. 

I don't love Beethoven's Pastoral but.. the storm and final thanksgiving are sublime. Maybe compositions in F would have been better than just symphonies? Even for seasoned listeners like me, I have trouble even thinking of 5 let alone ranking them. 

But I learned some things and that is good


----------



## Polednice

jaibyrne said:


> Brahms 3rd is my least favourite of his symphonies but it is a masterpiece.


Why is it your least favourite (even though you recognise its greatness! ). It's my favourite of all his symphonies - which is your favourite? (If 4th, please rank 1 and 2 )


----------



## tgtr0660

Definitely Beethoven's 6th, by a few miles. Brahms' 3rd is my least favorite from him. 

Going through that list in wikipedia, I confirm my suspicions: this is not my favorite key for a symphony. ( that would be c minor or d minor probably)


----------



## Jaime77

Polednice said:


> Why is it your least favourite (even though you recognise its greatness! ). It's my favourite of all his symphonies - which is your favourite? (If 4th, please rank 1 and 2 )


I can admire it without liking it can I?  well the think is that it makes me feel depressed. I associate it with a bad time but this should not effect an objective view of the music.

Personally speaking I rank Brahms as such:

1. Symphony 4 
2. Symphony 2
3. Symphony 1
4. Symphony 3

The first mvt of 2 as well as the last movements conclusion is so wonderful ! and number 4 has a beautiful first movement and such a thrilling finale.


----------



## Polednice

jaibyrne said:


> I can admire it without liking it can I?  well the think is that it makes me feel depressed. I associate it with a bad time but this should not effect an objective view of the music.
> 
> Personally speaking I rank Brahms as such:
> 
> 1. Symphony 4
> 2. Symphony 2
> 3. Symphony 1
> 4. Symphony 3
> 
> The first mvt of 2 as well as the last movements conclusion is so wonderful ! and number 4 has a beautiful first movement and such a thrilling finale.


My list would be the same as yours but with the 3rd at the top. It's interesting why you place it at the bottom, because my own reaction to it stems from sentimental and personal reasons too - perhaps it has that affect on people, or maybe it's just coincidence.


----------



## Jaime77

Polednice said:


> My list would be the same as yours but with the 3rd at the top. It's interesting why you place it at the bottom, because my own reaction to it stems from sentimental and personal reasons too - perhaps it has that affect on people, or maybe it's just coincidence.


I am also curious that someone else thought it was their least favourite. On reflection, I would say it is more than associative emotional stuff and perhaps it is fair to say that each symphony has a personality and in some way this is my least favourite personality  a quality about it that makes the 3rd what it is. I know this is stretching the thread out of all believe but cud u please rank ur top 5 Beethoven symphonies. I want to compare.  Maybe we on to something here. Also referring to an earlier post called 'Least Favourite Piece by a Favourite Composer' where 3 Beethoven lovers didn't like the violin concerto.

Jaime


----------



## Polednice

jaibyrne said:


> I am also curious that someone else thought it was their least favourite. On reflection, I would say it is more than associative emotional stuff and perhaps it is fair to say that each symphony has a personality and in some way this is my least favourite personality


I certainly know what you mean by that.



jaibyrne said:


> I know this is stretching the thread out of all believe but cud u please rank ur top 5 Beethoven symphonies. I want to compare.  Maybe we on to something here. Also referring to an earlier post called 'Least Favourite Piece by a Favourite Composer' where 3 Beethoven lovers didn't like the violin concerto.


I find it slightly harder to rank the Beethoven symphonies, partly because I don't feel the same kind of 'attachment' I do to Brahms's, but, if pushed, I would probably go for 6, 9, 5, 7, 3. What are yours?


----------



## ScipioAfricanus

jaibyrne said:


> Who is Draeseke? May I ask  I heard of Raff but not this guy.


that is the same question I asked. Draeseke is way better than Raff, and he stands shoulder to shoulder with Brahms and Bruckner. He was more versatile than Brahms in that he composed church music, chamber music, symphonies and Operas.
check out his bio here.
www.draeseke.org
and here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Draeseke

also here is a preview of some of his major works

Notable Works
[edit] Orchestral Music

* Symphony No. 1 in G major, Opus 12 (1872)
* Symphony No. 2 in F major, Opus 25 (1876)
* Symphony No. 3 in C minor, Opus 40 "Symphonia Tragica" (1885-6)
* Symphony No. 4 in E minor, WoO 38 "Symphonia Comica" (1912)
* Julius Caesar, Symphonic Poem (1860, revised 1865)
* Penthesilea, Symphonic Prelude (after Kleist), op 50 (1888)
* Jubel-ouvertüre, op. 65 (1898)
* Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in E-flat, op. 36 (1885-6)
* Symphonic Andante for Cello and Orchestra in e, WoO 11 (1876)

[edit] Operas

* König Sigurd - Opera in 3 Acts after Emanuel Geibel's Sigurd (1853-7)
* Dietrich von Bern - Opera in 3 Acts (1877; revised by Otto zur Nedden, 1925)
* Gudrun - Opera in 3 Acts (1879-84)
* Bertram de Born - Opera in 3 Acts (1892-4)

[edit] Choral and Vocal Music (Religious and Secular)

* Christus. Mysterium in a Prelude and Three Oratorios, opp.70-3 (1895-9):Vorspiel: Die Geburt des Herrn, (Prelude: The Birth of the Lord) op. 70;First Oratorio: Christi Weihe (Christ's Consecration), op. 71; Second Oratorio: Christus der Prophet (Christ the Prophet), op. 72;Third Oratorio: Tod und Sieg des Herrn (Death and Victory of the Lord), op. 73
* Grand Mass in a, op.85 (1908-9)
* Requiem in e (1909-10)
* Columbus, Cantata for soprano, baritone, male chorus, and orchestra, op 52 (1890)

[edit] Chamber Music

* String quartet nr. 1 in c, op. 27, (1880)
* String quartet nr. 2 in e, op. 35, (1886)
* String quartet nr. 3 in c-sharp, op. 66 (1895)
* Quintet in A 'Stelzner-Quintett' for violins (2),viola, violotta, and cello (1897)
* Quintet in F for violins (2), viola, and cellos (2), op.77 (1901)
* Quintet in B-flat for piano, string trio and horn. op.48 (1888)
* Viola Sonata No. 1 in c (1892)
* Viola Sonata No. 2 in F (1902)
* Clarinet Sonata in B-flat op. 38 (1887)
* Cello Sonata in D, op. 51 (1890)


----------



## ScipioAfricanus

tgtr0660 said:


> Definitely Beethoven's 6th, by a few miles. Brahms' 3rd is my least favorite from him.
> 
> Going through that list in wikipedia, I confirm my suspicions: this is not my favorite key for a symphony. ( that would be c minor or d minor probably)


ouch. when I am looking for something pleasant, bouyant, lyrical and without much tragedy I immediately starting thinking of works in F major, B flat major and C major.


----------



## Jaime77

Polednice said:


> I certainly know what you mean by that.
> 
> I find it slightly harder to rank the Beethoven symphonies, partly because I don't feel the same kind of 'attachment' I do to Brahms's, but, if pushed, I would probably go for 6, 9, 5, 7, 3. What are yours?


This is interesting 

This is yours so: 6, 9, 5, 7, 3

And this is mine: 7, 5, 9, 8, 3

neither of us care too much for 1, 2 and 4. Looking at this though I don't see some clear preference either us have for a type or character. Who knows!


----------



## Argus

tgtr0660 said:


> Definitely Beethoven's 6th, by a few miles. Brahms' 3rd is my least favorite from him.
> 
> Going through that list in wikipedia, I confirm my suspicions: this is not my favorite key for a symphony. ( that would be c minor or *d minor *probably)


 'Yeah, well, it's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy that I'm doing in D minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys, really, I don't know why. It makes people weep instantly to play'










But for symphonies in F, I'd probably agree on Beethoven's 6th.


----------



## Polednice

lol - if you really want to move people with music, you've got to pass _f_, _ff_ and _fff_ and go one louder to 11!


----------



## Edward Elgar

F major was regarded as the pastoral key in the Classical Era. Can't get more pastoral than Beethoven's 6th. I think Brahms' 3rd is a better symphony, it's the stormy side of nature.


----------



## Edward Elgar

Here's a geeky idea, how about a thread whereby you go round the circle of 5ths and state your favourite symphony in each of the keys?


----------



## starry

jaibyrne said:


> This is interesting
> 
> This is yours so: 6, 9, 5, 7, 3
> 
> And this is mine: 7, 5, 9, 8, 3
> 
> neither of us care too much for 1, 2 and 4. Looking at this though I don't see some clear preference either us have for a type or character. Who knows!


I actually quite like No1, alongside 3,5,6 and 7.

I probably would put the Brahms symphonies in the same order as others have here as well.


----------



## Jaime77

starry said:


> I actually quite like No1, alongside 3,5,6 and 7.
> 
> I probably would put the Brahms symphonies in the same order as others have here as well.


What order for Brahms? No. 3 as top of list?


----------



## starry

No3 bottom, then the first, then the second in 2nd, and the 4th top. 

Of the F Major symphonies Beethoven's 6th is probably my favourite, and my favourite of all of Beethoven's symphonies as well.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

ScipioAfricanus said:


> There is something refreshing about symphonies in F major. They are not sorrowful and they always evoke some aspect of nature.
> My ranking is as follows
> 1. Beethoven's 6th
> 2. Raff's 3rd
> 3. Draeseke's 2nd
> 4. Brahms 3rd
> 5. Dvorak 5th.


Aspects of nature? In F? And a symphony? All you folks missed out on one.

The most popular _and_ earliest of them all: Bach's Brandenburg Concerto no.1 in F major, which Bach himself in an earlier version entitled it as _Sinfonia_ (before the more fanciful dedication score - more like a job CV - to the Margrave of Brandenburg). In Baroque music, the natural horn evoked hunting.


----------



## afterpostjack

I love Beethoven's 8th, and I might say that it's the greatest symphony written in F major.


----------



## Guest

Easily Brahms' 3rd. The most passionate work ever.


----------



## Bobotox

Seriously? The best one in F major is definitely Raff's 3rd. The best symphony of modern times and a colossal success at the time. It destroys Brahms 3rd and any other symphony easily.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

F Major is the pastoral key, and not just because of Beethoven. I think it has one of the warmest timbres of any major key.


----------



## Rasa

Sorry, equal temperament. Different keys don't exist


----------



## Argus

Rasa said:


> Sorry, equal temperament. Different keys don't exist


They do. They're just identical in all but pitch.


----------



## tahnak

*F Major Greats*

Beethoven's Sixth (Pastoral)
Beethoven's Eighth
Brahms' Third
Dvorak's Fifth
Niels Gade's Seventh
Joachim Raff's Third and
Anton Rubinstein's First


----------



## TresPicos

Beethoven's Pastoral symphony definitely tops my list. 

I look forward to 11 other threads like this one.


----------



## gmubandgeek

Nuukeer said:


> I love Beethoven's 8th, and I might say that it's the greatest symphony written in F major.


THANK YOU! Beethoven's 8th symphony in my honest opinion trumps his 6th (I'm a clarinet major and every time at auditions they always call the clarinet solo from the 1st movement of the 6th so I'm a bit sick of it ). It's so nostalgic in nature. The first time I had the pleasure of hearing it, it was all I could do not to stand up and clap after the menuet. Simply gorgeous!


----------



## weinermr

Brahms 3 for sure!


----------



## Sid James

I really like Dvorak's _Symphony No. 5 in F major_. I didn't at first, but lately I've been listening to it a lot as it will be played at a concert I'm going to later this month. It's quite innovative - the middle two movements are linked. I know other composers did this kind of thing as well. I think it's a pity that most people don't know Dvorak's earlier symphonies, because they are quite good pieces...


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Andre said:


> I really like Dvorak's _Symphony No. 5 in F major_. I didn't at first, but lately I've been listening to it a lot as it will be played at a concert I'm going to later this month. It's quite innovative - the middle two movements are linked. I know other composers did this kind of thing as well. I think it's a pity that most people don't know Dvorak's earlier symphonies, because they are quite good pieces...


I agree, I think this is an excellent symphony. I really enjoy the ending, and I've personally called him a modernized Beethoven, because he definitely shares that quality Beethoven is also known for: *fire*!


----------



## Sid James

Yes, the Dvorak early symphonies are pretty good & I often wonder if he had not called the 9th "From the New World" (which was apparently an afterthought), would it be as popular as it is (eclipsing all of his others in the public imagination)?


----------



## gmt

Back to F Major symphonies, my "ranking" for tonight...
Brahms 3
Beethoven 6
Goetz
Sulek 8
Beethoven 8
Raphael 3
Stenhammar 1
Dvorak 5
Atterberg 2
Tournemire 5
Brun 9
A.Moyzes 5
Stanford 4
Sinding 3
etc.


----------

