# Is Beethoven's 9th Symphony your favourite piece of music?



## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Please don't vote 'yes' based on other people's opinions or it's historical significance etc - just whether you love the work more than any other.

If you want, please do also put those feelings into words in a post.

I have made the poll anonymous.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I imagine this is the one. Not necessarily showing in this poll, but overall forum history. Like the anonymous Art Rock survey did of 56 members had Beethoven come out in the lead, where as Bach fans:

I've often seen them split between Matthaus Passion over WTC, this doesn't show in the tier-voting strategy. Beethoven fans are a bit less split about his best work, but as someone mentioned a minute ago, most people don't agree with one work, which is a testament to all the great other music out there.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I've posted on several occasions that it could use some red pencil editing for length/repetition. I am very fond of parts of it, but it does not continuously engage me as well as the Eroica. Or the Sixth.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> I've posted on several occasions that it could use some red pencil editing for length/repetition. I am very fond of parts of it, but it does not continuously engage me as well as the Eroica. Or the Sixth.


_It is not hard to compose, but what is fabulously hard is to leave the superfluous notes under the table._

Johannes Brahms


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Certain conductors can make it seem like a much greater work than others. Obviously a monumental milestone in music history, and a symphony that I love, but it is very far from being in my top tier of favorite symphonies or of favorite works.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

This symphony is a better work than the poll suggests. I hope that at least one of us will fess up to the 9th being an all-time favorite, but we'll see. Might be that we're all jaded from overexposure. I long resisted the 9th but I love it now. Still not near my top 5 favorite works of all time, but quite possibly in the top 10.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Not by a long shot. I'm tired of hearing. I'm bored from playing it so many times. The local pro orchestra has for some stupid reason decided that from now on every season will open the 9th. At least until the current conductor and board of directors leave. I guess every year people show up to hear it - again. Basta!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> I've posted on several occasions that it could use some red pencil editing for length/repetition. I am very fond of parts of it, but it does not continuously engage me as well as the Eroica. Or the Sixth.


Shame you weren't around to advise Beethoven! :lol:


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## HolstThePhone (Oct 11, 2015)

I'm not sure if these polls are really of any use - would anyone really say they have one, single "favourite" piece of music? I don't think I could name any piece as my favourite. I have favourites, and *maybe* Beethoven's 9th would rank among them. But one single favourite? No.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

HolstThePhone said:


> I'm not sure if these polls are really of any use - *would anyone really say they have one, single "favourite" piece of music*? I don't think I could name any piece as my favourite. I have favourites, and *maybe* Beethoven's 9th would rank among them. But one single favourite? No.


Favorite Piece of all-time??


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

HolstThePhone said:


> I'm not sure if these polls are really of any use - would anyone really say they have one, single "favourite" piece of music? I don't think I could name any piece as my favourite. I have favourites, and *maybe* Beethoven's 9th would rank among them. But one single favourite? No.


The Talk Classical Community's Favourite and Most Highly Recommended Works

*The First Tier (Most strongly recommended)*: 
Bach: Das wohltemperierte Klavier (The Well-Tempered Clavier), BWV 846-893 [1722, 1742] 
Beethoven: Symphony #9 in D minor, op. 125 "Choral" [1824]


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

It's on the top floor of my collected favorites over the years/decades. But that floor in my head is crammed with years of carefully curated jazz, pop, indie, classical, some folk, bluegrass, country, each of which will grab my attention and send me over the moon.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

It used to be my favorite back when I almost exclusively listened to symphonic music. 

Now I know Beethoven's Late Quartets, Schubert's last string quartet and string quintet, Messiah, and Bach's B Minor Mass, Art of Fugue, and Brandenburg Concertos.

Beethoven's Choral is the king of symphonies, but some of the above works seem to transcend music itself.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> This symphony is a better work than the poll suggests. I hope that at least one of us will fess up to the 9th being an all-time favorite, but we'll see. Might be that we're all jaded from overexposure. I long resisted the 9th but I love it now. Still not near my top 5 favorite works of all time, but quite possibly in the top 10.


A top 10 to 15 for me.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

No, it's not even my favorite Beethoven symphony.
Which reminds me of the old Beatles anecdote, maybe apocryphal:
- Reporter to Lennon: "Ringo isn't the best drummer in the world, you know."
-Lennon: "He isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles!"


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't have a favorite piece of music. That says nothing about the 9th, one of the peaks of our musical heritage. Like all peaks, I climb it seldom, but always love the view from the top.


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## JohnBuckLINY (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm the only one to vote yes thus far. Perhaps sacrilegious, but my favorite version is Bernstein's "Ode An Die Freiheit" recorded in Berlin 12/89.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Just curious, how many of these kinds of poll are we going to see? It could get old pretty fast, IMO.


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## CC301233 (Jul 14, 2020)

My favorite is the 5th.... but the 9th comes in a very close second!


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> Just curious, how many of these kinds of poll are we going to see? It could get old pretty fast, IMO.


I thought it might be of interest to compare this poll with the official TC list.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

janxharris said:


> I thought it might be of interest to compare this poll with the official TC list.


Choosing one piece at a time would seem to mean hundreds of these polls. Y'all can do what you want, but count me out (not that my participation matters anyway).


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> Choosing one piece at a time would seem to mean hundreds of these polls. Y'all can do what you want, but count me out (not that my participation matters anyway).


I wasn't planning on doing any more.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I feel about it much the same way Vaughan Williams did. He wrote an extended essay attesting to its greatness but didn't enjoy it. I don't dislike it the way he did, but it's never floated my boat and wouldn't even be among my favourite Beethoven works, let alone my favourites overall.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

It is one of my favorite symphonies but yields to Mahler's 4th and Shosty's 10th. Concerning the "choral", maybe in my top 20 of favorite works, maybe not.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't diminish its reputation but this piece of music has never done much for me emotionally or intellectually. It often seems overwrought. I like almost everything by Beethoven better than the 9th symphony.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Questions like this are not the point. Doesn’t matter whether or not it’s our ‘favourite’ the point is that it is great music.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Surprising low number of votes so far for Beethoven.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

janxharris said:


> Surprising low number of votes so far for Beethoven.


Surprising? It's one piece among thousands, which makes three votes a ridiculously high total.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

EdwardBast said:


> Surprising? It's one piece among thousands, which makes three votes a ridiculously high total.


You may be right - I just thought it would have had more (still early days) as it tops the TC official poll.

I think there are some incredible moments but it falls far short of perfection for me.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

Beethoven 9 is not my favourite piece of music, but this is:


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

One absolute favorite? A purely binary choice? My answer is that I cannot answer with either option. It isn't quite like "have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no," but it is close.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

The first 5 or so minutes of Mov 4. one of the most beautiful...(I can't)


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2020)

No. It's probably my favourite Beethoven symphony.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

The 9th is not even my favourite Beethoven symphony, never mind my favourite piece of music.


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## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

my favorite symphony. But not my favorite work by Herr Ludwig, which would be His Missa Solemnis. 
My favorite piece of music ever is Bach's St Matthew Passion


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## Texas Chain Saw Mazurka (Nov 1, 2009)

If you just want to see Beethoven's 9th lose in a poll, there must be a fairer way of doing it.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Texas Chain Saw Mazurka said:


> If you just want to see Beethoven's 9th lose in a poll, there must be a fairer way of doing it.


I hadn't noticed Beethoven 'losing'.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

janxharris said:


> I hadn't noticed Beethoven 'losing'.


In this particular poll, he's losing almost 10 to 1.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> In this particular poll, he's losing almost 10 to 1.


Right, but that's inevitable with any work. The field is so huge!


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> In this particular poll, he's losing almost 10 to 1.


So, who's 'winning'? It could be Beethoven!


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

flamencosketches said:


> In this particular poll, he's losing almost 10 to 1.


He is winning as far as I can see.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Strange Magic said:


> I've posted on several occasions that it could use some red pencil editing for length/repetition. I am very fond of parts of it, but it does not continuously engage me as well as the Eroica. Or the Sixth.


Aside from the scherzo, repeats are not a problem with this symphony. But to have the scherzo longer than the slow movement (which is the case in some performances) is ridiculous


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## Iota (Jun 20, 2018)

There are too many good pieces of music to have a favourite, but Beethoven's Ninth is an earth-shattering and unique piece in the right mood. It manages to feel both vast, intimate and compassionate at the same time.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't see how public appreciation after Beethoven didn't learn from his message... his concertos and this symphony, they're so brilliantly disconnected and atmospheric and yet Classical, like a big labyrinth. Composers were caught up in bringing the romantic ideal for the most part, even Brahms but in an honorable way. We know it wasn't their fault to be more catering.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Ethereality said:


> I don't see how public appreciation after Beethoven didn't learn from his message... his concertos and this symphony, they're so disconnected and atmospheric and yet Classical. Composers were caught up in bringing the romantic ideal, even Brahms for the most part.


Not sure what you are saying here Ethereality.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

That the mainstream had more to say where music was heading than the composers. They decide where to put their money. The big 3 sound like they're always trying to solve puzzles of beauty, but composers come along and bank on their work not appreciating the complexity of the situation they left it in. There's like 90 popular Early-Romantic composers. Something is wrong with that picture not in a literal sense, but relevantly today in an enlightening sense.

Maybe I'm just speaking the obvious here: Beethoven copied Mozart, Mozart copied Haydn, etc, but they were comfortable doing justice to the music before competitive $ showed up.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Ethereality said:


> That the mainstream had more to say where music was heading than the composers. They decide where to put their money. The big 3 sound like they're always trying to solve puzzles of beauty, but composers come along and bank on their work not appreciating the complexity of the situation they left it in. Not everyone for that matter.
> 
> Maybe I'm just speaking at more an extreme here. I think Beethoven copied Mozart, Mozart copied Haydn, yes, but at least they were comfortable to do justice to the music before competitive $ showed up. There's like 90 popular Early-Romantic composers. Something is wrong with that picture.


You see Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven as the obvious models that composers should have looked to?
Most composers following Beethoven did attempt to emulate _him_ at least.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Fame often leads to miraculous benefit. In the case of the three above, their fame was due to intelligent people, ie. it was music of the elite. I'm guess I'm just venting the obvious. The public didn't get the message of Beethoven. At all. While it's obvious the succeeding greats did, it was too late for them to make their mark. The money machine became too monstrous.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Ethereality said:


> Mozart copied Haydn


"... it is interesting that, having influenced Haydn, Bach (CPE) later allowed himself to be influenced by the younger composer, just as Haydn later influenced and was influenced by Mozart. ..."

Compare the string figures in measure 9 of Confitebor tibi domine from Mozart Vesperae solennes de confessore (1780)
with those of Gloria from Haydn Schöpfungsmesse (1801)
---
Mozart Symphony No. 25 in G Minor, K. 183: I. Allegro con brio (1773)
Mozart Missa longa K.262 - "mortuorum" (1775)
J. Haydn - Hob XXII:12 - Mass in B flat major "Theresienmesse" - agnus dei (1799)
---
Mozart Symphony No. 40 in G Minor, K. 550: II. Andante (1788)
Erblicke hier, betörter Mensch from Haydn oratorio Die Jahreszeiten (1801)
---
Adagio introduction from Mozart: String Quartet No.19 In C, K.465 - "Dissonance" (1785)
Die Vorstellung des Chaos from Haydn oratorio Die Schöpfung (1798)
( "... Yet he remained a bit flummoxed by this opening, saying only "if Mozart wrote it he must have meant it." This from the composer who, later on, would make a musical depiction of Chaos resolved into blinding C Major light in The Creation. ..." )
---
the way the first movements open:
Mozart - String Quartet No. 15 in D minor K. 421 (1783)
Haydn - String Quartet Op. 76, No. 2 in D minor 'Quinten' (1797)
---
Agnus Dei from Mozart Krönungsmesse (1779)
Agnus Dei from Haydn Harmoniemesse (1802)
Adagio from symphony No.98 (1792)


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

The above is a perfect example of how plagiarism isn't bad when done with the right intent. It's like Einstein trying to rework a math equation into a new formula.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> Most composers following Beethoven did attempt to emulate _him_ at least.


Fortepiano Concerto No.27 in B Flat Major, KV 595: III. Allegro
Piano Concerto No. 2 in B-Flat Major, Op. 83: IV. Allegretto grazioso

Fortepiano Concerto No.24 in C Minor, KV 491: I. Allegro
Brahms: Piano Concerto No.1 In D Minor, Op.15 - 1. Maestoso - Poco più moderato










6:16





"The quartets Op. 41 are Schumann's only string quartets, and were composed after studying the quartets of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven."

"Suddenly, Schumann was promoting Haydn's music, which supposedly had "ceased to arouse any particular interest," at the expense of Beethoven.
The intense study of Haydn's quartets brought Schumann's published criticisms of the composer to an abrupt and irrevocable halt in 1842."

"... The rewriting of the main theme at the opening of the recapitulation, however, reveals that Schubert had Mozart's famous C major Quintet in mind all along. The recapitulation, in which the detached mounting arpeggio that is a principal element of Mozart's opening now appears (introduced at the end of Schubert's development and continued into the reprise), allows us to see that two other elements of Mozart's structure were already present in Schubert: the decorative and expressive turn is found in both works at the fourth bar of the opening phrase, and Mozart's eccentric five-bar rhythmic structure has been retained but adapted by Schubert to a ten-bar structure. The rhythm, and this is typical of Schubert, is basically similar to his classical model but stretched out to be twice as long. In addition, Mozart shortens a later appearance of his main theme in the exposition to the more orthodox four-bar groups (the fifth bar of each original phrase overlapping with the next), and Schubert obediently follows suit in the counter-statement of his main theme by shortening his ten bars to seven-bar groups (actually eight-bar overlapping phrases). Essentially, even in the last of his great instrumental works, we can see that Schubert retained the conventional Viennese models (Mozart's above all) and increased their size, giving them the greater sense of space that was Schubert's most extraordinary innovation, and which would have a signal effect on the future history of music in the work of both Brahms and Bruckner."
(Schubert the Progressive: History, Performance Practice, Analysis, Edited by Brian Newbould, Page 5)

"My own music, is quite simply, nothing but Mozart." -M. Ravel


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> Most composers following Beethoven did attempt to emulate _him_ at least.







http://musicstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Popovic_JIMS_0932106.pdf#page=9
"It is perfectly reasonable that Mozart's Phantasie served as a model to Franz Liszt for a typological definition of his one-movement sonata cycle."


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Since Beethoven's took from both Mozart and Haydn, then saying that most composers following LVB emulated him is also saying, to a degree, that they emulated Haydn and WAM. They followed Beethoven specifically in expressing the new Romanticism that developed in art and literature at the close of the 18th century.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

janxharris said:


> Since Beethoven's took from both Mozart and Haydn, then saying that most composers following LVB emulated him is also saying, to a degree, that they emulated Haydn and WAM. They followed Beethoven specifically in expressing the new Romanticism that developed in art and literature at the close of the 18th century.


If I say something profound, I may mean one thing while others hear another thing. This can actually be much more valid in music, which says all kinds of things depending on the eye of the beholder. But did composers really _follow_ Beethoven? I know most of them really didn't. If some did, that's left up to opinion.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Ethereality said:


> If I say something profound, I may mean one thing while others hear another thing. This can actually be much more valid in music, which says all kinds of things depending on the eye of the beholder. But did composers really _follow_ Beethoven? I know most of them really didn't. If some did, that's left up to opinion.


Conductor Ivan Fischer: 'Beethoven is the giant who created the new world. Everybody after Beethoven copies Beethoven...Liszt, Wagner, Schoenberg...'

Not forgetting Berlioz, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms.....


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> Conductor Ivan Fischer: 'Beethoven is the giant who created the new world. Everybody after Beethoven copies Beethoven...Liszt, Wagner, Schoenberg...'
> 
> Not forgetting Berlioz, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms.....


Nobody copies anyone, Mr. Fisher was high as a kite. They were inspired by Beethoven and Mozart and Bach but 'copying' is something only the John Williams' of the world do.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

1996D said:


> Nobody copies anyone, Mr. Fisher was high as a kite. They were inspired by Beethoven and Mozart and Bach but 'copying' is something only the John Williams' of the world do.


I assumed Fischer meant copied Beethoven in a general sense rather than note for note. Brahms comes close rhythmically in this 1st symphony to Beethoven's 5th symphony famous motif.

You say nobody copies but seemingly all 18th century composers partook of the same limited harmonic vocabulary that was fashionable then - and some complain at the resultant homogeneity.


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> I assumed Fischer meant copied Beethoven in a general sense rather than note for note. Brahms comes close rhythmically in this 1st symphony to Beethoven's 5th symphony famous motif.


He just wanted to praise Beethoven, which is fine, but it's not necessary to do it in that way. Monteverdi's music largely had no impact on music history because nobody knew about it yet that doesn't make it any less enjoyable, so the fact that Beethoven was famous and listened to often by the Romantics doesn't make his music any greater than what it already is by its own merit.



janxharris said:


> You say nobody copies but seemingly all 18th century composers partook of the same limited harmonic vocabulary that was fashionable then - and some complain at the resultant homogeneity.


That vocabulary is what represented what they wanted to express in the 18th and then the 19th century. Mozart wrote a dissonant opening to his 19th quartet so he knew, everyone knew about the possibilities, they just weren't bent enough to try it extensively.

Music was to be solely beautiful.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

1996D said:


> He just wanted to praise Beethoven, which is fine, but it's not necessary to do it in that way. Monteverdi's music largely had no impact on music history because nobody knew about it yet that doesn't make it any less enjoyable, so the fact that Beethoven was famous and listened to often by the Romantics doesn't make his music any greater than what it already is by its own merit.


Ok.



> That vocabulary is what represented what they wanted to express in the 18th and then the 19th century. Mozart wrote a dissonant opening to his 19th quartet so he knew, everyone knew about the possibilities, they just weren't bent enough to try it extensively.
> 
> Music was to be solely beautiful.


I assume Mozart would have experimented with that newer, fresher sound had he lived longer.


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> I assume Mozart would have experimented with that newer, fresher sound had he lived longer.


Fair enough, but they were all still concerned with making beautiful music, art is after all meant to be uplifting. If dissonant music hears crickets today it would've certainly back then as well. For all we know attempts were made but the works are long lost because they were written by failed composers.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

1996D said:


> Fair enough, but they were all still concerned with making beautiful music, art is after all meant to be uplifting. If dissonant music hears crickets today it would've certainly back then as well. For all we know attempts were made but the works are long lost because they were written by failed composers.


Many find a lot of it beautiful, certainly.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> http://musicstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Popovic_JIMS_0932106.pdf#page=9
> "It is perfectly reasonable that Mozart's Phantasie served as a model to Franz Liszt for a typological definition of his one-movement sonata cycle."


Is it just me or Mozart's Phantasie sounds similar to Appassionata in 4/4?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

1996D said:


> Nobody copies anyone, Mr. Fisher was high as a kite. They were inspired by Beethoven and Mozart and Bach but 'copying' is something only the John Williams' of the world do.


Yes, imagine listening to a real symphony for the first time in 1770 by none other than Mozart, I mean really imagine that kind of shock, even in 1800. Most people thought Mozart's music was witchcraft, it definitely sounded like something conjured up by a wizard. It's hard for people to understand these days because they're so desensitized by TV and internet games.

In all seriousness, I think composers after Mozart and Beethoven were a bit like this in response to hearing their music 



.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

janxharris said:


> Please don't vote 'yes' based on other people's opinions


But, but , but , I want the other guys to like me.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> But, but , but , I want the other guys to like me.


Some suggest that such is occurring.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Perhaps in my Top 40

There is no real "favorite", that's silly.

It's not even my favorite Beethoven symphony. I like the compact structure of his other symphonies, the 3rd, 5th, and 6th.

If I were to have to choose which one to put on right now, I'd probably go with the 6th or 7th, maybe the 1st.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

1996D said:


> Music was to be solely beautiful.


*[ 3:30 ]*





"What the 19th century did to Mozart was it turned Mozart into the definition of taste. Of elegance, of beauty. In short, it turned Mozart into a fashion model. A beautiful face, a mask. And as a result of that, it cultivated an attitude towards Mozart performance in which things needed to be smooth, things needed to be poised, things needed to be beautiful. And of course, what starts by being a notion of beauty ends up being rather prettified, and so we get performances of Mozart that tend to embalm him rather than to enliven him. And to turn Mozart into an object which is just simply nice, pleasant, pretty, is to me unforgivable because his music teems with all of the disorder of the human condition."


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

janxharris said:


> Since Beethoven's took from both Mozart and Haydn, then saying that most composers following LVB emulated him is also saying, to a degree, that they emulated Haydn and WAM. They followed Beethoven specifically in expressing the new Romanticism that developed in art and literature at the close of the 18th century.


"... Yes, the missing tonality was in fact C minor; "atonality" is of course not justified, but it was certainly hinted…Adorno's « hegemony of tonality» remains and Mozart's acquisitions anticipate those of Wagner, transforming musical language « only indirectly, by means of the amplification of the tonal space and not through its abolition»." 
< Mystery and innovation in performances of Mozart's Fantasy KV 475: following the guidance of three great 20th-century masters >

I think there are plenty of cases where Beethoven doesn't act as a "bridge". Take Wagner, for example. Beethoven was (of course) a tremendous source of inspiration to Wagner, but Mozart was also inspirational to Wagner in ways that Beethoven wasn't.

For example, 
Mass in C major, K. 257 "Credo"
"Its name derives from the long setting of the Credo, in which the word "Credo" is repeatedly sung in a two-note motif. It thus joins a tradition of so-called "Credo Masses", including Mozart's own Kleine Credo Messe (K. 192) and Beethoven's later Missa solemnis."

But there are parts that make me think of Wagner (ex. Siegfried's funeral march) rather than Beethoven, in terms of figurations and gestures:

*[ 11:30 ]*










View attachment 130858

_"Don Giovanni takes a share in the Romantic school, because of the drama's subject matter and its Shakespearian conception'"_ -Berlioz


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## Ich muss Caligari werden (Jul 15, 2020)

LvB's _9th_ almost invariably comes in first in a Classical Top 100 listener survey conducted by our local station. And when it went off the air for several years (it's now resurrected) the last work they played was the 9th. The 7th is my favorite among his Symphonies with the 6th a strong runner-up. BTW, the 7th was Sartre's favorite as well...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

hammeredklavier said:


> View attachment 130858
> 
> _"Don Giovanni takes a share in the Romantic school, because of the drama's subject matter and its Shakespearian conception'"_ -Berlioz




Which is the string quartet in that video?


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> Which is the string quartet in that video?


Sounds like Mozart Dissonance quartet.

After searching for the key signature (Ab major), the answer is the second movement of String Quartet No.16, K428. Dissonance is close enough.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> Sounds like Mozart Dissonance quartet.


I thought so, but wasn't sure-then again, I've never heard another Mozart quartet that's as chromatic as that one (of course, chromatic harmony is one of Mozart's signatures, but I don't know another work where he takes it to such a "Wagnerian" extent). I owe that quartet another listen.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> I thought so, but wasn't sure-then again, I've never heard another Mozart quartet that's as chromatic as that one (of course, chromatic harmony is one of Mozart's signatures, but I don't know another work where he takes it to such a "Wagnerian" extent). I owe that quartet another listen.


It's No.16 for sure (and well worth listening to again after learning this fact).


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> It's No.16 for sure.


Ah, thanks. I don't even have that one in my library... I need to get a complete Mozart SQs set ASAP, or at least the "Haydns".


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Beethoven's 15% is very impressive.


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