# Which singer best represents each fach?



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

not necessarily your favorite singer of each fach, or even the one you feel is the "best", but the one which represents said fach the best

imo
*lyric coloratura soprano:* Ingeborg Hallstein
*light lyric soprano:* Barbara Bonney
*dramatic coloratura soprano:* Joan Sutherland
*full lyric soprano:* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
*spinto soprano:* Martina Arroyo (Price comes to mind immediately, but I feel like Martina Arroyo's timbre is more typical of a spinto soprano)
*dramatic soprano:* Ghena Dimitrova
*Wagnerian soprano:* Kirsten Flagstad

*lyric mezzo:* Jennifer Larmore
*dramatic mezzo:* Elena Obraztsova

*contralto:* Ewa Podles

*countertenor:* ???
*tenor leggiero:* Juan Diego Flores
*lyric tenor:* Jussi Bjorling
*spinto tenor:* Franco Corelli
*dramatic tenor:* Giuseppe Giacomini
*heldentenor:* Loritz Melchior

*lyric baritone:* Herman Prey (I would say Robert Merrill, but imo, he was more "spinto baritone" than lyric)
*Verdi baritone:* Sherrill Milnes
*dramatic baritone:* Titto Gobbi
*bass-baritone: * Willard White

*basso cantante:* Samuel Ramey
*basso profondo:* Paul Robeson


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

The first name that comes to mind is Natalie Dessay for coloratura soprano.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs," and the impossibilty of choosing just one singer to represent each of these fuzzy categories, this looks like an interesting challenge which will make me do some listening and thinking. So here goes nothing.

*lyric coloratura soprano:* Luisa Tetrazzini 



*light lyric soprano:* Elisabeth Schumann 



*dramatic coloratura soprano:* Maria Callas 



*full lyric soprano:* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf 



*lyric-dramatic (jugendliche-dramatische) soprano:* Lotte Lehmann 



*dramatic soprano:* Rosa Ponselle 



*hochdramatische sopran:* Kirsten Flagstad 




*lyric mezzo:* Janet Baker 



*dramatic mezzo:* Irina Arkhipova 



*coloratura mezzo:* Marilyn Horne 



*All-purpose mezzo:* Christa Ludwig 




*contralto:* Sigrid Onegin 




*countertenor:* whoever

*tenore leggiero:* Fernando de Lucia 



*lyric tenor:* Jussi Bjorling 



*lyric-dramatic tenor:* Enrico Caruso 



*dramatic tenor:* Jon Vickers 



*heldentenor:* Lauritz Melchior 




*lyric baritone:* Maurice Renaud 



*lyric-dramatic baritone:* Mattia Battistini 



*"Verdi" baritone:* Riccardo Stracciari 



*dramatic baritone:* Titta Ruffo 



*bass-baritone:* Friedrich Schorr 




*basso cantante:* Pol Plancon 



*basso profondo:* Boris Shtokolov 



*basso all-purposo:* Ezio Pinza


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs," and the impossibilty of choosing just one singer to represent each of these fuzzy categories, this looks like an interesting challenge which will make me do some listening and thinking. So here goes nothing.
> 
> *lyric coloratura soprano:* Luisa Tetrazzini
> 
> ...


I love the thought and the time that went into this.

- Thank you.

_;D_


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

For lyric tenors it would certainly have to be Pavorotti
All purpose tenor Domingo - astonishing versatility.
Contralto - Ferrier


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs," and the impossibilty of choosing just one singer to represent each of these fuzzy categories, this looks like an interesting challenge which will make me do some listening and thinking. So here goes nothing.
> 
> *lyric coloratura soprano:* Luisa Tetrazzini
> 
> ...


Extremely impressive. This must have taken you hours.

I'll just add my vote for a countertenor.

David Daniels


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Extremely impressive. This must have taken you hours.
> 
> I'll just add my vote for a countertenor.
> 
> David Daniels


It did. Hours well-spent, getting re-acquainted with some of the best of the best.

I was counting on you to bring DD to the party. That cutie is always welcome (and he sings good too).


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

*Woodduck*, thank you for your extensive list! I've listening to them now =P

in the same fashion, I think I'll include some clips for the list I posted in the OP
*lyric coloratura soprano:* Ingeborg Hallstein 



*light lyric soprano:* Barbara Bonney 



*dramatic coloratura soprano:* Joan Sutherland 



*full lyric soprano:* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf 



*spinto soprano:* Martina Arroyo 



*dramatic soprano:* Ghena Dimitrova 



*Wagnerian soprano:* Kirsten Flagstad 




*lyric mezzo:* Jennifer Larmore 



*dramatic mezzo:* Elena Obraztsova 




*contralto:* Ewa Podles 




*countertenor:* ???
*tenor leggiero:* Juan Diego Flores 



*lyric tenor:* Jussi Bjorling 



*spinto tenor:* Franco Corelli 



*dramatic tenor:* Giuseppe Giacomini 



*heldentenor:* Loritz Melchior 




*lyric baritone:* Herman Prey 



*Verdi baritone:* Sherrill Milnes 



*dramatic baritone:* Titto Gobbi 



*bass-baritone: * Willard White 




*basso cantante:* Samuel Ramey 



*basso profondo:* Paul Robeson


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs," and the impossibilty of choosing just one singer to represent each of these fuzzy categories, this looks like an interesting challenge which will make me do some listening and thinking. So here goes nothing.
> 
> *lyric coloratura soprano:* Luisa Tetrazzini
> 
> ...


I was not familiar with Irina A. as a mezzo. Gorgeous, gorgeous voice. I would have chosen Stignani. I also would have wanted a tie between Early Callas and Sutherland as Dramatic Coloratura Soprano. Other than that, a perfect list.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I don't know the fachs specifically very well but add

Jonas Kaufmann, Elena Garanca, Anna Moffo to my stew.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Fritz Wunderlich would be my choice for the lyric tenor Fach, and Jonas Kaufmann the pick for the lirico-spinto/jugendlich dramatische category. But I can think of so many wonderful singers, both from the past and from the present day, that it would be difficult to restrict my choices in most of the other Fächer to just one individual.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

*Balalaikaboy:* I agree with you about Sherrill Milnes being the quintessential Verdi baritone. From recordings I think it's pretty evident that Leonard Warren had a "fatter" voice and probably greater _natural_ vocal resources (sort of the Joan Sutherland of baritones) and that Tito Gobbi was a more subtle actor with the voice, but there are three reasons why Milnes strikes me as having been "born to sing" Verdi. First was his brilliant upper register, so essential for those roles. Second was that his voice could handle both "declamatory" and "lyrical" passages equally well, and arias that alternate between the two extremes are all over the place in Verdi: think of "Pari siamo," "Cortigiani," and "Pieta, rispetto, amore" for starters. I feel Milnes was much better at declamation than the more strictly lyrical Robert Merrill. Third, Milnes' temperament seemed exceptionally well-suited to the kinds of emotions those Verdi baritone characters feel, the fathers especially. Examples: as Germont (on the Carlos Kleiber TRAVIATA) he conveys sympathy where some would find only sternness, and as Rigoletto he's much more loving and concerned than nasty. So, yeah, I feel he was _an_ ideal Verdi baritone if not _the_ ideal Verdi baritone. But I've always been a big Milnes fan, anyway, so perhaps I'm biased.

As for other singers, Juan Diego Florez always comes to mind the minute I hear "Rossini tenor." His voice just seems to have been made for all that fancy filigree work. Also, when I think "full lyric soprano" I tend to think "Mirella Freni." Both Deborah Voigt and Karita Mattila are "Strauss sopranos."


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

If we're talking about Verdi baritones, an excellent test aria is "Eri tu" from _Un Ballo in Maschera_. It requires everything in a baritone's arsenal but coloratura - declamatory force, smooth cantilena, range, power of emotional expression - and will show up any flaws or weaknesses in voice, technique, or style.

Here, in my estimation, is a Verdi baritone for the ages. No one in the last 70 years, at least, can touch Riccardo Stracciari (1875-1955): 



 This has everything: a splendid vocal instrument, powerful, vibrant, secure, completely supported and evenly produced throughout a wide range; a seamless legato and an understanding of how to use it with feeling and taste; a technical freedom and quickness of movement that allows easy, spontaneous expression in every part of the voice with no need to distort the musical line with overemphatic "pointing"; and a perfect sense of style.

Let's compare four late 20th-century baritones, moving backward in time.

Here's Sherrill Milnes (1935- ): 



 This is, compared with Stracciari, not at all good. The vocal production is terribly inconsistent, the legato poor, the upper range pushed and splayed. He has to "apply" expression because the lack of technical freedom doesn't allow it to emerge naturally, and the effort fills his phrasing with lumps and bulges. The general effect is forced. I hope he sang this piece better on other occasions.

Ettore Bastianini (1922-1967) isn't really much better vocally, and musically he's hopelessly crude (as usual): 




Robert Merrill (1917-2004) is a little better, having at least heard of legato: 




Leonard Warren (1911-1960) is vocally still better, his voice consistently rich and with little technical adjustment needed at the top, but rather square and unimaginative: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WM8A87dHlY

Now if we want to go back a generation, we can get closer to the real deal. Here's Lawrence Tibbett (1896-1960): 




Farther back, the great Titta Ruffo (1977-1953) in 1915: 



 No difficulties at all here. A bit monochromatic, but not brutal like Bastianini. A fantastic instrument and very solid singing.

And here is Pasquale Amato (1878-1942) in 1914: 



 This is classic. A wonderful ability to color the voice, varying the expression with no loss of tonal consistency or legato line.

I'm not going to speculate here as to why the quality of singing tends to improve as we move backward in time, but it's hard to deny that it does.

The best contemporary version I've found is by Dmitri Hvorostovsky (1962- ): 



 Not up to Amato or Stracciari, but actually showing some sense of good old-fashioned legato and an ability to let emotion emerge through the voice rather than distort the musical line. Ironic, isn't it, that Hvorostovsky isn't considered a "Verdi baritone" by many people?

But let's conclude with the earliest of them all, Mattia Battistini (1856-1928). Would his brilliant, flexible, high baritone be considered a "Verdi baritone" today? Listen to his style and technique, as recorded in 1907, at age 51: 



 We are here in another world, vocally, from the likes of Milnes and Bastianini!

Our assumptions about singing - about technique, style, and fach - are easily upset by just a bit of listening. Now who are the "Verdi baritones" of today?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I gotta add in Mara Zampieri as a legend for all time. Chalk her under dramatic soprano.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> If we're talking about Verdi baritones, an excellent test aria is "Eri tu" from _Un Ballo in Maschera_. It requires everything in a baritone's arsenal but coloratura - declamatory force, smooth cantilena, range, power of emotional expression - and will show up any flaws or weaknesses in voice, technique, or style.
> 
> Here, in my estimation, is a Verdi baritone for the ages. No one in the last 70 years, at least, can touch Riccardo Stracciari (1875-1955):
> 
> ...


Okay, then...It must be that my "palette" is not sufficiently refined to hear the faults in all of the artists denigrated above; my tastes must need to be "educated up" to the standards of 80+ years ago, when _truly_ great singing was the norm. And the same must be true of the highly respected J.B. Steane (certainly no stranger to the recordings of the "Golden Age," and anything but hostile to them) and his colleagues, all of whom had much praise and little criticism for the _singing_ (and not just the "dramatic abilities" or the "personalities") of Merrill, Milnes, etc. If you don't believe me, read the books _The Grand Tradition_, _Opera on Record_, or any of the numerous columns and reviews in back issues of _The Gramophone_ magazine. It must be, too, that we'd all be delusional if we were to think today's Quinn Kelsey an outstanding Verdi baritone.

I think I'm going to bow out of this thread. However, my post above still stands; I wouldn't change a word of it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Okay, then...It must be that my "palette" is not sufficiently refined to hear the faults in all of the artists denigrated above; my tastes must need to be "educated up" to the standards of 80+ years ago, when _truly_ great singing was the norm. And the same must be true of the highly respected J.B. Steane (certainly no stranger to the recordings of the "Golden Age," and anything but hostile to them) and his colleagues, all of whom had much praise and little criticism for the _singing_ (and not just the "dramatic abilities" or the "personalities") of Merrill, Milnes, etc. If you don't believe me, read the books _The Grand Tradition_, _Opera on Record_, or any of the numerous columns and reviews in back issues of _The Gramophone_ magazine. It must be, too, that we'd all be delusional if we were to think today's Quinn Kelsey an outstanding Verdi baritone.
> 
> I think I'm going to bow out of this thread. However, my post above still stands; I wouldn't change a word of it.


Thanks for drawing my attention to Quinn Kelsey. In the little I find of him on the internet, I hear a very attractive instrument of firm tonal quality if not great brilliance or ring. It's a young voice, and the all-out singing I hear him doing in the heavy arias of Verdi and verismo, effective though it may be at the moment, makes me worry that he's working too hard. There's no strain, but neither is there much subtlety, dynamic give and take, or coloration of the sound. Milnes started out with a more charismatic sound, and his top began losing freedom and resonance rather early. Verdi is rough on baritones, and I hope Kelsey is working on his Mozart and Handel as well. I'll believe in him when I hear him execute a good diminuendo!

I'm grateful to Conrad Osborne, a critic who knew singing and could speak about it more eloquently and graphically than anyone I know, for opening my ears almost 50 years ago to the technical possibilities of the human voice and to its capacity to make music with freedom and eloquence. He, more than anyone, directed me to some of the greatest singers on record, and pointed out to me in graphic and eloquent terms what to listen for. I have an opportunity here to try to pass some of what I've learned along to others. The "Verdi baritones" in my post have all been principal singers of the composer's music in their day. I think that one of the interesting aspects of making these comparisons, with respect to this thread, is the way in which it challenges our notions of "fach" by showing the variety of singers who have exemplified a given repertoire over time. I thought it best to let the singers' work speak largely for itself, but I've supplemented their recordings with a few indications of what I find notable about what they do. Some may find this enlightening, or at least suggestive and interesting, may want to investigate further, and may find their perceptions changing as a result, much as mine did years ago. Others may find no reason to alter their present perspectives on the subject, while still others may for whatever reason actively resist doing so. Whatever anyone's reaction to my efforts may be, those efforts are offered, not with the intention of "denigrating" anyone, but with the hope of providing a perspective on a subject which can only be understood when sometimes unflattering comparisons are drawn.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Woodduck, what a fantastic post on different baritones singing 'Eri tu'! I'm not going to complain that you didn't include my favourite- a Frenchman singing in French would stretch most people's idea of a 'Verdi baritone'- but here's Leon Melchissedec's fine recording for anyone who may be interested:






What authority and smoothness and grace! Aged 64 in 1907, the highest and lowest notes are perhaps no longer beautiful, but what a singer! I find it quite difficult to choose between him and Battistini in this aria.

Edited to add: sorry, this post is a bit off-topic. I mostly just wanted to thank Woodduck for his writing. As a non-singer I don't have much understanding of technical questions such as Fach, so I probably don't have a lot to contribute. Fascinating thread, though! :tiphat:


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Would be nice to see a similar list for living and active singers.

Does anyone want to try? I'm not so expert...


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

GioCar said:


> Would be nice to see a similar list for living and active singers.
> 
> Does anyone want to try? I'm not so expert...


Me neither. I think some Fächer might have merged or disappeared. At least countertenors are well represented these days: among those mentioned on this thread, I believe ???, Whoever, and David Daniels are still very much active.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs," and the impossibilty of choosing just one singer to represent each of these fuzzy categories, this looks like an interesting challenge which will make me do some listening and thinking. So here goes nothing.
> 
> *lyric coloratura soprano:* Luisa Tetrazzini
> 
> ...


Awesome list!

Still, I would swap in *Francisco Araiza*, *Samuel Ramey*, *Nicolai Gedda*, *Tito Gobbi* and *Birgit Nilsson* (IMO of course)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GioCar said:


> Would be nice to see a similar list for living and active singers.
> 
> Does anyone want to try? I'm not so expert...


Wonderful suggestion. Many of us can't keep up with the current scene. Bellinilover pointed out Quinn Kelsey as a very promising young baritone, and there are some impressive clips of him on YouTube, such as this "Cortigiani" from _Rigoletto_:






Obviously we can't make such clear-cut judgments of contemporary singers as of those whose heritage and reputation are established, but just to have brought to our attention people to watch for would be valuable.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

He may not win over his Fach colleagues, but I also love Leo Nucci as a Verdi baritone.
As for girls, I'd pick Maria Callas in all categories LOL, though in the end she was a dramatic coloratura soprano. But she was thundering over the orchestra in her youth as she sang Wagner. Her range was huge, as some argue she was natural mezzo. OK, this is a controlled delirium, but I have no clues for the different compartments of singing.
Ah, and my tenore leggiero prize goes to Juan Diego Florez.
As for Spinto tenore: Franco Corelli


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

I find it difficult for anyone to exclude Siepi from these lists. As far as making a total evaluation of singers from the wax cylinder era, all the technical prowess, in the world is but pyrotechnics without vocal beauty which is very difficult at best to determine from the recordings of the era. I suspect many singers of the era would be provincial regulars at best.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Retired said:


> I find it difficult for anyone to exclude Siepi from these lists. As far as making a total evaluation of singers from the wax cylinder era, all the technical prowess, in the world is but pyrotechnics without vocal beauty which is very difficult at best to determine from the recordings of the era. I suspect many singers of the era would be provincial regulars at best.


Because the question wasn't 'Who had the most beautiful voice? Hint: Siepi!' it was about which singer best represents each Fach, and you are free to make your own list, which I would be genuinely interested to see. Of course many of the earliest singers on record were indeed 'provincial regulars', whether in the sense of not being big time singers, or of being big time singers who also sang in smaller houses, perhaps as an alternative to an international career in a time when travel was slow and gruelling. Or did you mean to imply that some of the earlier singers on Woodduck's list would be lucky to get a job in the chorus of some end of the pier type provincial theatre these days?


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

I think making lists of "bests" in art is sort of futile. I think classification and the "Parker points" mentality is not in the interest of any art form.

I would chose Siepi not just for the vocal beauty but for the legato and vocal line which to my mind has been largely lost in the lower male voices.



> Or did you mean to imply that some of the earlier singers on Woodduck's list would be lucky to get a job in the chorus of some end of the pier type provincial theatre these days?


What I meant was that the singers at the international level today have to go through years of endurance testing which was a non issue for many (provincial) singers of the past....and many of those performances in cavernous spaces compared to the baroque halls of 100 years ago. I'm not convinced (nor does anyone know) that Pol Plancon could vocally "fill" the modern day theater. BTW, there is nothing wrong with provincial singers....there are many fine relatively unknown singers in the provinces.
Thank goodness we do....often that is the first point of contact for the audiences that we need.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I basically agree with Wooduck's comments about the different baritones singing "Eri tu" (except the one about Mr. Hvorostovsky), so I'm not going to insist on them.

I would like to introduce a few more singers, though:

Starting with *Mario Ancona*, a near contemporary of Battistini, but with a different voice, and a different style of singing. His rendition it's a little bit monotonous, but the voice is glorious. Pure velvet, envolved in an iron mantle.






The great *Giuseppe De Luca*:






And the baritone that (almost) made me doubt about my favorite rendition (Stracciari's, same as Wooduck), *Carlo Galeffi*:






Or this wonderful performance of *Giuseppe Danise*:






*Carlo Tagliabue*:






Moving back to find a true Verdi baritone today... well, I know many fans that think this is as hopeless as to look for a living Dodo. Maybe Mr. Domingo shares also this opinion. I wouldn't be so categorical perhaps, but I do think there is no one that really compares with the great baritones of the past.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

schigolch said:


> I basically agree with Wooduck's comments about the different baritones singing "Eri tu" (except the one about Mr. Hvorostovsky), so I'm not going to insist on them.
> 
> I would like to introduce a few more singers, though:
> 
> ...


Thanks for adding these to the list, schigolch. It's a little shocking to realize how many great baritones were contemporaries early in the 20th century, and just as shocking to note that all those we've mentioned were Italian. That doesn't imply any lack of great non-Italian baritones then active - of course there were many French, German, etc., who would have been singing Verdi in their own languages as was the custom then - but it points up the startling lack of Italians in the field at present. What has happened to singing in Italy? Have Italians stopped singing? Are the canals of Venice silent now? Are there no good teachers of singing in Italy? Any theories?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Retired said:


> I find it difficult for anyone to exclude Siepi from these lists. As far as making a total evaluation of singers from the wax cylinder era, * all the technical prowess, in the world is but pyrotechnics without vocal beauty which is very difficult at best to determine from the recordings of the era. * I suspect many singers of the era would be provincial regulars at best.


As a former singer and long-time connoisseur (horrible pretentious word - sorry!) of singing, I agree that a basically attractive timbre is important if a singer is to reach the top of her profession. But "technical prowess" is not something separable from vocal beauty. A voice which functions well - which is free of the distortions and inhibitions caused by muscular rigidity and tension - is simply more pleasant to hear than one that doesn't. It is normally quite possible to hear, on 78 rpm recordings going back to the early years of the 20th century, that a voice is functioning well or that it isn't, and although vocal timbre as such is captured with varying degrees of compromise, it is generally quite evident that a given voice would have been more or less pleasant to hear. Our ability to make this discrimination is of course refined by extensive listening to recordings of that vintage, as well as by comparing recordings made by a given singer at different points in her career as recording technologies advanced.


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

> But "technical prowess" is not something separable from vocal beauty. A voice which functions well - which is free of the distortions and inhibitions caused by muscular rigidity and tension - is simply more pleasant to hear than one that doesn't.


I don't think "pleasant" will enjoy much of a career, at least not today. There are MANY voices, especially male voices, that muscled their way through 10-15 year careers that we exalt today. I will not name them for I am grateful for the thrilling memories they have left us, but I would be loathe to offer them to students as shining examples of vocal technique.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Retired said:


> I don't think "pleasant" will enjoy much of a career, at least not today. There are MANY voices, especially male voices, that muscled their way through 10-15 year careers that we exalt today. I will not name them for I am grateful for the thrilling memories they have left us, but I would be loathe to offer them to students as shining examples of vocal technique.


I don't know what you're trying to say here. What does "much of a career" mean? And what's different today - as compared to when? - in what audiences expect of voices? A voice that has the range and technical ability to encompass the demands of a major operatic role is always in demand and will, by virtue of its technique, its ease and flexibility and responsiveness to the singer's expressive impulses, be widely enjoyed. Vocal timbre is enormously variable; "beauty" in the basic timbre of a voice is largely a personal preference, but the beauty we perceive in a free, well-functioning voice is not a mere matter of taste. The basic timbre of Callas was very much a matter of taste; it was, and is, loved by some, loathed by others. But the technical/expressive capacity that voice exhibited won the esteem and, yes, enjoyment of many who would not have cared to listen to it were it less physically disciplined. And I would say that any number of voices we deemed intrinsically more "beautiful" would not have made much of an impression were they not well-used.

As I said, the technical accomplishment of a voice and the beauty we perceive in it are not separable, contrary to what you implied by saying that "all the technical prowess in the world is but pyrotechnics without vocal beauty." Technique is not "pyrotechnics"; pyrotechnics are one possible manifestation of technique. I'm only elaborating more emphatically upon this because your response to my first post seems not to show cognizance of it. You go on to speak of less technically polished voices that "muscle their way" through brief careers "that we exalt today." What's the significance of that? Who are these singers, and who are "we"? I suspect that I have never personally exalted a singer of that sort. Of course there are always plenty of technically unfinished singers with perfectly fine voices around; just tune in the Met on any Saturday and you're likely to hear one in mid-career, wobbling and straining and swallowing consonants in music too demanding for him. But I'm afraid I don't see what you're concluding from this.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Thanks for adding these to the list, schigolch. It's a little shocking to realize how many great baritones were contemporaries early in the 20th century, and just as shocking to note that all those we've mentioned were Italian. That doesn't imply any lack of great non-Italian baritones then active - of course there were many French, German, etc., who would have been singing Verdi in their own languages as was the custom then - but it points up the startling lack of Italians in the field at present. What has happened to singing in Italy? Have Italians stopped singing? Are the canals of Venice silent now? Are there no good teachers of singing in Italy? Any theories?


I'm not Italian, though I do love Italy, and Italian singing, very much. I've been also many times in Italy, listening opera, and I have discussed this same question with quite a few Italian fans. There are some theories being offered, but personally I'm not buying any of them, at least as **the** root cause for the lack of Italian baritones. I confess I'm puzzled by this fact, and don't have an explanation for it. My last favorite Italian baritone was Renato Bruson.

Talking about "Eri tu" and "Ballo", I was attending a performance in Madrid a few years ago, with Mr. Marco Vratogna singing Renato. I never, never boo a singer, but this time I really had to make a superhuman effort to restrain myself. And Mr. Vratogna is not alone, far from it...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

schigolch said:


> I'm not Italian, though I do love Italy, and Italian singing, very much. I've been also many times in Italy, listening opera, and I have discussed this same question with quite a few Italian fans. There are some theories being offered, but personally I'm not buying any of them, at least as **the** root cause for the lack of Italian baritones. I confess I'm puzzled by this fact, and don't have an explanation for it. My last favorite Italian baritone was Renato Bruson.
> 
> Talking about "Eri tu" and "Ballo", I was attending a performance in Madrid a few years ago, with Mr. Marco Vratogna singing Renato. I never, never boo a singer, but this time I really had to make a superhuman effort to restrain myself. And Mr. Vratogna is not alone, far from it...


I shall beware of Signor Vratogna. :lol:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> *dramatic soprano:* Rosa Ponselle


you're going to hate me for saying this, but Rosa Ponselle always seemed more like a mezzo in disguise to me


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> you're going to hate me for saying this, but Rosa Ponselle always seemed more like a mezzo in disguise to me


Aw, how could anyone hate a handsome blond Adonis like you? (Do you have a mouth, by the way?)

I suppose Ponselle could almost as well be described as an extended mezzo as a dramatic or dramatic coloratura soprano. Some voices defy categorization. After all, God made the voices before we made the categories! All I can say is, she sang Aida, Gioconda, Leonora, Norma, Violetta and other demanding soprano parts with great success and was described by Serafin as a "vocal miracle." Recordings from her prime years show no technical difficulties in dramatic, lyric or coloratura music. She did have a limited top, like many dramatic voices, but she debuted in 1918 and the high notes were not really a worry until the '30s. Unlike Callas, Ponselle had a really full lower range (not merely a good chest voice) that was seamlessly integrated with her midrange, and during her retirement years she continued to sing magnificently; the recordings that were made of her at home in the '50s are beautiful and show the deep color of her voice more fully than the old 78s made in her prime. But those 78s contain some glorious soprano singing, powerful, rich, and with a fine coloratura technique including a trill. So I think that during her prime years she deserved to be called a soprano, and was in the opinion of many the greatest soprano of her day.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Giorgio Zancanaro seems to be most frequently cited as the most recent "true Verdi baritone" (whatever that means, I'm sure it's an argument in itself). He is long gone from the stage, but he has at least one prominent baritone student now, George Petean (alas, not an Italian). Is the problem that Italians are not teaching Italians how to sing?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Woodduck said:


> Despite my dislike of dividing voices into distinct "fachs,"


Are you saying you don't give a flying fach about all this categorization?


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## Jermaine (Apr 23, 2016)

So happy to see Ingeborg's name on here. She is the best coloratura soprano I have heard. I thought that Natalie's Frühlingstimmen was the best thing I have heard until someone recommended Hallstein.

Her diction is perfect (I know she's German, but it's the case with all her recordings), her voice has a rich body to it that most coloraturas that I've heard lacks, her head voice is crystal clear and it has this ethereal sound to it. She made me realize how unpleasant Natalie's upper register can sound, not to take anything away from Natalie, she's still my favorite coloratura (currently). But yeah, Ingeborg is grossly underrated. Definitely has a voice that surpassed all whose names are constantly in the spotlight when it comes to coloraturas. Not to mention her beauty.

Frühlingstimmen






Il Bacio






Una voce poco fa






Les oiseaux dans la charmille






I don't know all the voices but Cecilia is definitely the best mezzo. ​


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jermaine said:


> So happy to see Ingeborg's name on here. She is the best coloratura soprano I have heard. I thought that Natalie's Frühlingstimmen was the best thing I have heard until someone recommended Hallstein.
> 
> Her diction is perfect (I know she's German, but it's the case with all her recordings), her voice has a rich body to it that most coloraturas that I've heard lacks, her head voice is crystal clear and it has this ethereal sound to it. She made me realize how unpleasant Natalie's upper register can sound, not to take anything away from Natalie, she's still my favorite coloratura (currently). But yeah, Ingeborg is grossly underrated. Definitely has a voice that surpassed all whose names are constantly in the spotlight when it comes to coloraturas. Not to mention her beauty.
> 
> ...


Not so sure about this.


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## Jermaine (Apr 23, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Not so sure about this.


I know how much you guys dislike her, and that's okay with me. 
She's basically flawless to my ear. ​


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jermaine said:


> I know how much you guys dislike her, and that's okay with me.
> She's basically flawless to my ear. ​


I am the last one saying you shouldn't.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck, I'm curious to know why you chose Schorr rather than Hotter or other prominent singers of that rep. I'm not disagreeing by any means, but I love reading what you write concerning these topics! I sometimes struggle to hear why Schorr is so highly regarded. I'm certain you can set me straight.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Like Giuditta Pasta before her, Maria Callas was a soprano assoluta /sfogato


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Richards said:


> Woodduck said:
> 
> 
> > *bass-baritone:* Friedrich Schorr
> ...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richards said:


> Woodduck, I'm curious to know why you chose Schorr rather than Hotter or other prominent singers of that rep. I'm not disagreeing by any means, but I love reading what you write concerning these topics! I sometimes struggle to hear why Schorr is so highly regarded. I'm certain you can set me straight.


Nice first post, welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Richards said:
> 
> 
> > Schorr debuted in 1912 and his best years lasted until the early 1930s; there are live recordings made later than that which show some vocal decline. In his prime he had a voice like a trombone: rich, powerful, smooth, firm, free, easy, flexible. Hotter was a great singer and artist, but was vocally rougher, with less pure diction. To hear Schorr at his best, try his _Meistersinger_ excerpts.
> ...


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## GodotsArrived (Jan 12, 2017)

For me, Kathleen Ferrier and Waltraud Meier (particularly the former) belong in this company. And no DFD? Really? I would say Hermann Prey is by some distance second in that category.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> If we're talking about Verdi baritones, an excellent test aria is "Eri tu" from _Un Ballo in Maschera_. It requires everything in a baritone's arsenal but coloratura - declamatory force, smooth cantilena, range, power of emotional expression - and will show up any flaws or weaknesses in voice, technique, or style.
> 
> Here, in my estimation, is a Verdi baritone for the ages. No one in the last 70 years, at least, can touch Riccardo Stracciari (1875-1955):
> 
> ...


I found this interesting side-by-side video comparing Ruffo, Merrill and Hvorostovsky:



 I don't agree with you about Hvorostovsky. For me he is the male equivalent of Anna Netrebko. His clip is proof.
The uploader (General Radames whom I suspect to be Franco Tenelli) wrote a lengthy video description and I second every word of it:
_
Robert Merrill
June 4, 1917 - October 23, 2004
The great baritone Robert Merrill demonstrates how great singing looks and sounds like.
Merrills voice is produced with freedom and ease. Merrills face and body are free of constrictions.
However, there is an athleticism and physicality about his singing. The sound is efficient, big and resonant. There is an absence of noise. His larynx is low but free. All great singers sing with a low larynx. It is not exclusive to Melocchi. Hence the sound is dark (scuro) The darkness is balanced with core or clarity. (squillo)

Dimitri Hvorostovsky.
Born October 16, 1962 -
There is an immediate impression of ease and control.The sound reveals something completely different. There is an evident vocal squeeze and girding of the sound.
The sound is thick and woofy with a lack of squillo. Gasping for air indicates signs of laryngeal constriction. (closed throat)At times you get the impression that the sound comes out through the nose. His voice is actually quite small in person. His voice is not fit for Verdi.
This recording improves his small dull sound. He has far less squillo in person.
Monotonal sounding and incredibly boring. Note, the piano with a closed lid is competing with his sound.
Here, he seems to be as loud or louder than the orchestra. Intonation becomes a problem.Hvorostovskys voice is collapsed.The correct functioning muscular groups are not being engaged.When he tries to engage the correct function with his faulty technique the sound gets muscled, and constricted.
He does not know how to sing by engaging these muscles with vocal efficiency, which in itself gives vocal size.Audible gasping and breathing does indicate there is some assistance of a microphone.For recording purposes or assistance through enhancement.

Titta Ruffo
9 June 1877 - 5 July 1953
The Greatest Baritone and probably the greatest singer on record.Note the sound quality of the instrumentation compared to a modern day orchestra.Fill in the gaps and you have an idea of the quality of Ruffos magnificent sound.The sound is balanced with amazing muscular coordination.
The full robust sound is dark with squillo. (clarity)Well enunciated clear vowels.The sound is so efficient and free.It is unbelievable how such a gigantic sound could be so fluid.
The sound is exciting and engaging. It is never boring. Incredible Intonation and vibrato.
A truly great demonstration of how singing should be._


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

About time I wrote this list. These singers are not necessarily my favorites in the respective fachs.
When necessary, I will briefly and roughly describe what represents each fach in my opinion and/or why I picked the singer.

*Soprano sfogato acuto:* The key here is ease of singing above high C.
Mado Robin: 



*Lyric coloratura/Soprano leggiero:* Flexibility, lightness of timbre, and obviously ease of tackling the crazy coloratura acrobatics.
Natalie Dessay: 



*Dramatic coloratura soprano:* Richness and power, ease while singing fioriture, ear-piercing explosive high notes, ease of transition between a very low and a very high register that only perfectly coexist in this kind of voice anyway.
The one for whom the term was coined: Maria Callas: 



*Dramatic soprano: * Richness and power, sheer volume, squillo, general heaviness and darkness of timbre:
Ghena Dimitrova: 



*Spinto soprano:* Beauty of timbre is supreme in this fach, morbidezza, dramatic potential 
Anita Cerquetti: 



*Wagnerian soprano:* Birgit Nilsson: 



* Lyric soprano: * Kiri te Kanawa: 



There's not much to represent in lyric fachs, though.

*Falcon:* Grace Bumbry does a perfect demonstration 




*Dramatic mezzo:* This fach's repertoire can be summed up in 3 roles: Amneris, Azucena and Eboli. One woman owned them all.
Ebe Stignani: 



*Lyric mezzo:* I'm so not into lyric voices. I can't think of a single name here. 
*Coloratura mezzo:* i.e. Rossini Mezzo.
Teresa Berganza: 



I would say Bartoli but her repertoire is more of a Castrato's rather than a Coloratura Mezzo's, in which she is unsurpassed, regardless of what you might think of her.

*Contralto:* Louise Kirkby Lunn: 




*Countertenor:* Philippe Jaroussky. You can tell he's a countertenor just by looking at him:





*Tenore di Grazia:* Tito Schipa: 



*Lyric tenor: * Pavarotti, duh: 



*Spinto tenor:* Franco Corelli: 



*Dramatic tenor: * Mario Del Monaco: 




*Lyric baritone:* can't think of anything.
*Verdi baritone:* A tie
Renato Bruson: 



Piero Cappuccilli: 



Bruson in Macbeth, Cappuccilli in Trovatore. Each owned their respective roles to perfection and not only vocally. Opera's sexiest men, quoi!
*dramatic baritone:* Titta Ruffo: 



*bass-baritone:* can't think of anyone.

*Bass:* (I can't tell bass fachs apart just yet)
Samuel Ramey: 



 (too bad he didn't act in this movie. Only voice.)

On a side note, I'm amazed to find that many things I've been trying to say for a while (shortage of Italian singers, the correlation between older recordings and better singing, vocal beauty as a result of technical prowess..etc) have already been said, much more eloquently, on this thread by Woodduck. :tiphat:
I love how Pugg is always the first to welcome us, noobs, to the forum :cheers:


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Tuoksu said:


> I found this interesting side-by-side video comparing Ruffo, Merrill and Hvorostovsky:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff...funny reading Hvorostovsky fans coming to his defense in the comment section. General Radames hurt some feelings!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> On a side note, I'm amazed to find that many things I've been trying to say for a while (shortage of Italian singers, the correlation between older recordings and better singing, vocal beauty as a result of technical prowess..etc) have already been said, much more eloquently, on this thread by Woodduck. :tiphat:


I'm just old. Your turn is coming. :tiphat:


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Wonderful suggestion. Many of us can't keep up with the current scene. Bellinilover pointed out Quinn Kelsey as a very promising young baritone, and there are some impressive clips of him on YouTube, such as this "Cortigiani" from _Rigoletto_:


I heard Kelsey in Don Carlo at Washington National Opera earlier this month & he was outstanding...the Verdi Baritone of choice these days seems to be Zeljko Lucic, but his voice does very little for me. The Verdi Baritone just might be the single fach that has declined more than any other.


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