# Your favourite "art" song writers



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Basically, title. A tough poll for myself too. If your favourite is not included, please do so in the comments!

EDIT: Also, this poll was inspired by the abscense of a certain member


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Predictably, Schubert and Mahler, but also Shosty - and Richard Strauss who is inexplicably not on the list.

Not on your list, but a shout out to Barber, Ravel, and Vaughan Williams as well.


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Agree with the shoutout to Ravel and Vaughan Williams, there just isn't enough room for everybody with 15 options. Maybe I should have excluded some of the big names. 

As to Richard Strauss. I like most of his music, but his songs haven't made a big impression on me


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

I voted Schubert, Mahler, and Wolf. But I'd also add Carl Loewe who wrote some very fine lieder works. I must say, however, that I think Schubert and Mahler really stand out in how they managed to connect melody with text. It's also marvellous how Mahler orchestrated his lieder - very deeply moving works!


----------



## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

How many modernists worked frequently in the lieder realm? I know Dallapiccola did a lot of vocal composition though I'm not sure how much of it would be "lieder" due to lack of familiarity of his work.


----------



## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Johannes Brahms.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*Othmar Schoeck* - especially his song cycles Elegie and Notturno. But he wrote hundreds of lieder as well.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I voted Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler.
I miss the already mentioned Loewe, Strauss, RVW.
I also miss Beethoven, severely underrated as a Lieder composer and Grieg who is better than Sibelius here. And Mussorgsky, the greatest non-austrogerman lieder composer in the 19th century.


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Kreisler jr said:


> Grieg who is better than Sibelius here. And Mussorgsky, the greatest non-austrogerman lieder composer in the 19th century.


Yes, both fine composers of Lieder. Especially Mussorgsky who has some beautiful song cycles. I forgot about him!


----------



## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Gabriel Fauré is probably the most underrated composer of the genre and in my opinion has the finest output of art songs outside of Germany/Austria. 

En Sourdine, Apres un reve, La Chanson d'Eve, Les Roses d'Ispahan, Pleurs d'or, Clair de Lune, Les Berceaux, La lune blanche luit dan les bois, Au bord de l'eau, and even his op. 1 Le papillon et la fleur to name a few masterpieces. It's an embarrassment of riches that hardly gets brought up even in discussion of the composer.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

fbjim said:


> How many modernists worked frequently in the lieder realm? I know Dallapiccola did a lot of vocal composition though I'm not sure how much of it would be "lieder" due to lack of familiarity of his work.


I think German composers often wrote some lieder works or at least works for a solo singer - Hindemith, Zemlisnky, and the above-mentioned Second Viennese School for example. Britten also wrote quite a few song cycles which, as much as I've heard, are in his usual modernist style. However, I think that late-20th century atonality is not very forgiving for voice, and lieder itself is a pretty Romantic genre.


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

fbjim said:


> How many modernists worked frequently in the lieder realm? I know Dallapiccola did a lot of vocal composition though I'm not sure how much of it would be "lieder" due to lack of familiarity of his work.


Off the top of my head, the ones that are in the poll, Rihm and Kurtág. Ligeti has one song cycle, one of the last works he wrote. Reimann of course, a great Lieder composer. Dallapiccola as you say, too. Those are the ones I can remember right now.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

fbjim said:


> How many modernists worked frequently in the lieder realm? ...


Ned Rorem has contributed greatly to the American "art song" book. So has Charles Ives.


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

SONNET CLV said:


> Ned Rorem has contributed greatly to the American "art song" book. So has Charles Ives.


Rorem too, yes.

I'm really surprised that only I voted for Poulenc. I think he's a tremendous songwriter and he's very accesible.


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Wagner and Verdi


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

fbjim said:


> How many modernists worked frequently in the lieder realm?.


What's a lied? I mean, is this a lied


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> What's a lied? I mean, is this a lied


Sure, but do you actually find anything of value or enjoyment from it?


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> Sure, but do you actually find anything of value or enjoyment from it?


This is probably the first anti-modernist comment by Bully I've seen on the forum, ROFL


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> This is probably the first anti-modernist comment by Bully I've seen on the forum, ROFL


No, it's anti-Stabler. :tiphat:


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> What's a lied? I mean, is this a lied


The below sounds to be an alternate version of the above lied. And I've never lied about a lied.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Rachengold is actually a German brand name for mints/cough lozenges...


----------



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I would like to add Richard Strauss onto the list.


----------



## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Brahms wrote some good songs, but to my ears not even close to the same artistic quality as Schumann in the medium. 
My answer is easy. Schubert and Schumann have no neighbours here. But then after them we have Wolf, Mahler, etc...


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Debussy for me. 

.........................


----------



## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Reynaldo Hahn .......................


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Britten deserves a mention as well - a number of excellent song cycles.

Seconding (or more) Grieg and Mussorgsky.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I tend to forget Britten because his most famous cycle, the serenade seems 'more' than just a song cycle although it clearly is one.


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Yes, Britten another blatant omission on my part


----------



## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> What's a lied? I mean, is this a lied


The OP says favorite *song*, and that's an even broader concept.

What about the chancons (songs) of Machault?


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

premont said:


> The OP says favorite *song*, and that's an even broader concept.
> 
> What about the chancons (songs) of Machault?


I'd pick Bernart de Ventadorn, largely because of Paloma Gutiérrez deal Arroyo.

Or maybe Heinrich Isaac.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

There are just so many from which to choose. If there was a shadow list option I would include Britten, Rorem, Eisler and Mussorgsky without hesitation.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

How about this -- art song?


----------



## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I'd pick Bernart de Ventadorn, largely because of Paloma Gutiérrez deal Arroyo.
> 
> Or maybe Heinrich Isaac.


Paloma del Arroyo's Ventadorn CD is on my wishlist.

One I like very much is *Reis glorios* by Giraut de Bornelh, partucularly in Andrea von Ramm's sublime interpretation.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

premont said:


> Paloma del Arroyo's Ventadorn CD is on my wishlist.


IMO, those songs ought to really be sung by a man, i.e. ala Bernart de Ventadorn.

Compared to the hundreds of male troubadours, only a couple dozen names of female troubadours, trobairitz, have survived, probably because compared to the number of men there were far fewer women doing this sort of thing. And of those names only a handful of songs can be attributed.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Where's Ravel? These are my favourites of his:


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I like Haydn better than any other on the list, Beethoven, Schubert, Eisler and Mahler after that.

Haydn's greatest songs are his *12 Canzonettas*, many set to texts by his friends. The _Spirit Song_, in particular, is manifest for its otherworldly content and music.

He also set to music a number of art and part songs by his English friends such as _What Art Expresses_, _Maker Of All Be thou my guard_, _Horrible is the end of the righteous generation_ and others.

A lot of the latter songs were recorded by the English early music group Psalmody https://www.amazon.com/English-Frie...=Haydn+Psalmody&qid=1622897010&s=music&sr=1-1

Another composer not listed, Berlioz, wrote the wonderful *Le nuits d' e'te* from which _Absence _is a glorious song of longing and heartache.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Your favourite "art" song writers:

Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Hugo Wolf, Mahler, Rachmaninoff, Samuel Barber, Amy Beach.

Songs were not Beethoven's strongest genre but I take out the "Irish Songs" every St. Patrick's Day.


----------



## premont (May 7, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> IMO, those songs ought to really be sung by a man, i.e. ala Bernart de Ventadorn.
> 
> Compared to the hundreds of male troubadours, only a couple dozen names of female troubadours, trobairitz, have survived, probably because compared to the number of men there were far fewer women doing this sort of thing. And of those names only a handful of songs can be attributed.


In principle I agree with this, when we strive at historical accuracy. I have not heard Paloma del Arroyo's Ventadorn CD, but Mandryka has written about it before and piqued my curiosity. His recommendations in the medieval repertoire are IMO always interesting. And even if I much prefer HIP oriented interpretations, I am not totally fanatic about it.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Wolf, Mahler, and Berg. I haven't listened to much else other than Strauss's Four Last Songs.


----------



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Guy Clark, Townes van Zandt, Hank Williams. Pure art.

Oh and some of these blokes are decent too...


----------



## EnescuCvartet (Dec 16, 2016)

Schubert is my favorite followed by Wolf and then Schumann. I also listen to Poulenc and Faire a good deal. I'm still getting into the Brahms lieder. 

My absentee choice would be Charles Ives.


----------

