# Four Hundred Years in a Week...



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I am listening to the Well-Tempered Clavier for the first time - yes, I am going public with this shocking fact. There is just too much good music, even too much *ridiculously well-known music* for me to get my head round in the two years since I've returned to my violin. It's very daunting.

So I am posting this not-very-serious thread to enlist your help, amigos.

It's in the form of a game. Imagine that a person (Chris) fancies another person & knows that the fancied one knows a lot about classical music. They have to go on a first important date in a week's time. Chris has told his/her date that s/he is a classical music newbie but s/he really would like to make an effort. Chris vows that in that week, s/he will listen to music for two or three hours a day, trying to get an 'overview' of Western Classical Music from 1600-2000.

Chris wants to get a proper idea, so decides to listen to two pieces every morning, then relisten in the evening. Before the second listening, s/he will look the composer(s) up on Wiki & get an idea of how they fit in to the canon.

The date doesn't go well. Chris finds the one s/he fancied is conceited and spiteful. But who cares? In the interim, Chris has fallen in love with Classical Music - a love that lasts.

Would you be good enough to post your suggestions on the thread: an accelerated course in Classical Music - Monday, so & so - Tuesday, composers x & y and so on; preferably with reasons, wit, or a bit of amiable backchat?

Thank you in advance for any offerings. :tiphat:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

To elaborate - I am not asking for a 'thorough syllabus', which is impossible in the time. Rather, it's a sort of 'Desert Island Discs' of seven to fourteen items which would be a 'good listen' in sequence to give an idea of how lovely Classical Music can be. But if you only want to tackle part of the week, that's fine. Just dip your toes in.

What are the pieces that you'd want Chris to sample *to get an idea*?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

For the Baroque, a good start would be Bach's Brandenburg Concertos / Concerti (whatever) and Handel's Water Music and Fireworks Music. The Bach is slightly over a CD in length while the Handel will fit nicely onto a CD. That will give Chris a pleasant introduction to the joys of Baroque. Looking at the lifes of Handel and Bach will also introduce her(him) to the world of Baroque music.

These are pleasant introductions to Baroque without being overly familiar as ringtones or music to wait by. Both are nice big orchestral pieces in slightly different styles with lots of nice tunes.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Fourteen-ish works from 1600 on to hopefully impress a knowledgeable date? Hmm..

Monteverdi's 1610 Vespers (Andrew Parrott)
Purcell's Dido And Aeneas (Christopher Hogwood)
Bach's Goldberg Variations (Keith Jarrett)
Haydn Symphonies 6-8 (Neville Marriner)
Mozart's Piano Concerto No.9 "Jeunehomme" (Alfred Brendel)
Beethoven "Waldstein " sonata (Wilhelm Kempff)
Schubert lieder (Ian Bostridge)
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique (Thomas Beecham)
Mahler Symphony No.1 (Georg Solti)
Faure Requiem (Philippe Herreweghe)
Schoenberg Transfigured Night (Herbert von Karajan)
Sibelius Violin Concerto (Jascha Heifitz)
Debussy Preludes Book 1 (Michelangeli)
Vaughan Williams A Lark Ascending (Hilary Hahn)
Ravel Piano Trio (Beaux Arts Trio)

Well, that takes us up to the First World War...

Deliberately avoiding 2-cd sets apart from the first one. Some of these choices are not necessarily the composers greatest works (and certainly not their "heaviest") but will have revealing Wikipedia entries on their rise to greatness, and not overwhelm in one intensive week. Performer choices should also prove effective for dropping knowingly into dinner conversation. Deliberately avoided works that "Chris" probably already knows from popular culture.

Actually I'm not very happy with that, and I don't think trying a different fourteen is going to help. I think Chris might be better off choosing to specialize in one composer.

Posting anyway...

-

Ingelou: which recording of the Well Tempered Clavier are you listening to? What are you first reactions?


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

SimonNZ said:


> Fourteen-ish works from 1600 on to hopefully impress a knowledgeable date? Hmm..
> 
> Monteverdi's 1610 Vespers (Andrew Parrott)
> Purcell's Dido And Aeneas (Christopher Hogwood)
> ...


Well *I'd* be impressed


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

First, I tell Chris that if he wants my help, we're going to do 1200 years, so he's gonna hafta gimme about 5 hours a day. Presented with that ultimatum, if he is sufficiently stricken by said fair vixen, Chris will agree. 

Monday: 
1. Edda - Sequentia
2. Hildegard von Bingen - "A Feather on the Breath of God" - Gothic Voices
3. Perotin - The Hilliard Ensemble
4. Machaut: Messe de Nostre Dame - Peres: Ensemble Organum 
5. Josquin: L'homme armé masses - Tallis Scholars 

Tuesday: 
1. Allegri, Palestrina, Mundi - Tallis Scholars 
2. Praetorius: Dances from Terpsichore - Pickett: New London Consort
3. Monteverdi: Madrigali guerrieri et amoroso - Rooley: The Consort of Musicke - skipping every other one (he can listen to the rest later)
4. Rebel: Les Elemens & Vivaldi: The 4 Seasons - Seiler 
5. Bach: The Art of Fugue - Emerson Quartet

Wednesday 
1. Bach: Mass in B minor - Gardiner (the first hour) 
2. Handel: Messiah - Hogwood (highlights)
3. Mozart: String Quartets "Dissonance" & "Hunt"; Haydn: "Emperor" String Quartet - Emerson Quartet 
4. Haydn: Symphony #104; Mozart: Symphony #40 - Davis and Böhm 
5. Mozart: Piano Concertos #20 & 21 - Uchida 

Thursday: 
1. Mozart: Don Giovanni (highlights) - Giulini 
2. Beethoven: Piano Sonatas 8, 13, 14 - Gilels 
3. Beethoven: Symphonies #5 & 7 - Kleiber 
4. Beethoven: Piano Sonatas #30-32 - Pollini 
5. Beethoven: String Quartets 13, 16 - Julliard String Quartet

Friday: 
1. Beethoven: Symphony #9 - Karajan 
2. Chopin: Etudes - Pollini 
3. Schubert: Trout Quintet, String Quartet #13 "Death & the Maiden" - Amadeus Quartet, Emil Gilels
4. Schubert: Winterreise - Fischer-Dieskau, Demus
5. J. Strauss II, etc.: The 1992 Vienna New Year's Concert - Kleiber 

Saturday: 
1. Wagner: The Ring Without Words - Maazel
2. Tchaikovsky: Ballet Suites - Rostropovich 
3. Debussy: La Mer, Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun; Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe Suite #2, Bolero - Karajan
4. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring, Petrouchka - Ozawa 
5. Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire - Boulez

Sunday: 
1. Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time - Tashi 
2. Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue; Barber: Adagio; Copland: Appalachian Spring - Bernstein 
3. Rzewski: Variations on "The People United Will Never Be Defeated" - Drury
4. Reich: Music for 18 Musicians (ECM)
5. Pärt: Tabula Rasa - Jarrett, Kremer, etc. 

Et voila.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you, Simon & science, for two brilliant posts. You know, I might try these programmes in a long summer week some time. Fabulous! :tiphat: :tiphat:



SimonNZ said:


> Ingelou: which recording of the Well Tempered Clavier are you listening to? What are you first reactions?


I am as usual just listening to anything I can find on YouTube. When I googled 'Well Tempered Clavier', I got an awful lot of Glenn Gould popping up, but I thought I should go for harpsichord on a first hearing, so I ended up with 'Well Tempered Clavier Books 1 & 2 performed by Kenneth Gilbert, Archiv Productions' & got about an hour in this morning before having to go out. I will have to leave it till tomorrow for the next instalment as it's my violin lesson this evening.

My reaction? Every so often a 'well-known tune' pops up, and I think 'Gosh - *that* one!' But in general I didn't think, I just luxuriated in the cascade of pure beauty showering over me. Lovely, lovely...
Do you have a recommended recording, though, Simon?

Oh, and which composer would you advise Chris to specialise in, Simon, just out of interest?



science said:


> First, I tell Chris that if he wants my help, we're going to do 1200 years, so he's gonna hafta gimme about 5 hours a day.
> Et voila.


Well, she did turn out a vixen after all, but Chris is starting to worry his friends, he is now so immersed in music & musical history. You've changed his life!


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

science: I dunno...after an intense week like that our Chris might be starting to wonder if this Vixen lady isn't kind of demanding and hard to please. After his first listen to Pierrot Luniere i can see him calling the date off.

Ingelou: Kenneth Gilbert's WTC is one of my favorites. Well chosen!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

SimonNZ said:


> science: I dunno...after an intense week like that our Chris might be starting to wonder if this Vixen lady isn't kind of demanding and hard to please. After his first listen to Pierrot Luniere i can see him calling the date off.


I guess that depends on Chris's style. I remember my first encounter with Pierrot Lunaire as one of the highlights in my personal discovery of classical music.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry to interject, but all this reminds me of one of my favorite episodes in the history of television:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Just realized -

If this lady's all that hot and into dashing young men who love classical music, I might just tell Chris that Beethoven's greatest work is known as "Unicorns on Parade," which they played when the sun came up in the movie _2001_, and then arrange a meeting with her myself at a later date.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

First I would caution Chris about trying to like something just to impress someone. There are many events I now dread attending that were once an important part of my life, but an ex-significant other glommed on to them and still attends even though they were not remotely part of her life before me. And that's kind of a crummy feeling. (Yes, she has every right of course.)

But as this is just a thought experiment:*

Monday*
John Dowland - Can She Excuse My Wrongs?
Heinrich Schutz - Fili mi, Absalon
(These are very short so we can let Chris choose a Monteverdi madrigal from Wikipedia as extra credit.)

*Tuesday*
J. S. Bach - Brandenburg Concerto No. 3
Handel - Coronation anthems (shorter than Messiah and nearly as good)

*Wednesday*
Mozart - Symphony No. 39 (Nikolaus Harnoncourt is my preferred conductor. Yes, I am grudgingly including Mozart for Chris' well rounded education, but I won't abide the usual works, Jupiter Symphony, Eine Kliene Nachggagkhcoughtmusik, etc.)

Beethoven - sigh. What to choose? Lets start with Piano Sonata No. 8, "Pathetique." But if Chris want's to appear in the know, it must be referred to as "Op. 13" for some reason.

*Thursday*
We've got to sample more Beethoven! He is almost in the center of music history that most people listen to after all.
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 (No additional piece for this day. This work does not leave the serious listener capable of much more sensory input. If Chris cannot relate to this work yet, the Symphony No. 7 will do as a substitute.)

*Friday*
Mendelssohn - Hebrides Overture
Liszt - Les Preludes (Ideally this should be heard by the neighbors as well.)

*Saturday*
Brahms - String Sextet No. 1 in Bb, Op. 18
Sibelius - Sibelius: Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op.43

*Sunday*
Stravinsky - Le sacre du printemps 
Vaughan-Williams - Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis (We have come full circle back to early music, a fitting close to the week.)

As with most educational courses, we barely have time to scratch the surface! I had to exclude Ligeti. And Schumann. And Holst! And . . .


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I was coming up with a list of works, though not divided day by day, and was surprised at how many Weston arrived at independently. I'll post later.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

GGluek's post suggests what may be an interesting way of looking at this -

What would you predict _other_ avid classical music listeners would put on the list?


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Here's a more or less chronological list of pieces I'd recommend a quick study listen to to get a sense of CM. It's fairly heavy on war horses because were talking about a newbie whom we don't want to put off or can't necessarily expect to appreciate subtler or finer points, and war horses have proven their ability to hold the attention. Also, I broke off fairly early in the twentieth century because music goes off is s many different directions that to try to explain would hopelessly confuse the issue. No opera because that would rake far more than a week by itself to be fair to. Divide by days as you see fit.

Plainsong (a representative sampling)
Monteverdi Vespers
Monteverdi/Gesualdo madrigals
A couple Elizabethan numbers by Byrd, Weelkes, Dowland
Vivaldi concerto (any)
Bach: Brandenburg no. 4 (Personal favorite), Tocatta and Fugue in d, Credo from b minor mass (alternative: Magnificat), up to half a dozen of The 48.
Handel: excerpts from Messiah.
Scarlatti: representative sonatas
Haydn: Quartet from op. 76, Clock or Surprise Sympony
Mozart: Clarinet concerto, symphony no. 38, 39, or 41, overtures to Figaro, DG, and Zauberflote
Beethoven: symphony 7, Pathetique sonata, Leonore No. 2, third Rasumovsky quartet
Schubert: Erlkonig, G major or "little" A major sonata, Unfinished symphony
Berlioz: Overture to B&B, Tuba Miram from Requiem
Mendelssohn: Hebrides and/or Midsummer Nights Dream overtures
Schumann: Carnival and E-flat Piano Quintet
Chopin: Assortment of piano shorts
Brahms: First Symphony, String Sextet (either one)
Wagner: Flying Dutchman overture, Tristan prelude and liebestote
Debussy: La Mer, assorted preludes
Stravinsky: Sacre
Prokofiev: Lt Kije suite, 7th Sonata
Bartok: Miraculous Mandarin suite, Quartet (not sure which)
Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire
R Strauss: Til Eulenspiegel
Sibelius: second symphony
Ravel Quartet
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Vaughan Williama: Tallis Fantasia
Berg violin concerto
Forgot to put in up above: canzonas by Schuetz, Scheidt

After that things get way too complicated for a newbie to even begin to digest.

Note that I've left a lot of people/things out because in a survey you have to (French galante style, Lizst, Mahler, Bruckner, Mussorgsky . . .).

Cheers --


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

I really like Weston's list. :tiphat:


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