# Orchestra + Piano But Not a Concerto



## DGatsby

Hi everyone!

I'm looking for orchestral pieces which include a piano but is not a concerto. I know of a couple pieces already: Wilhelm Peterson-Berger's 5th symphony, John Adam's Nixon in China, and the symphonies of Bohuslav Martinů. 

I'd love to know what other ones are out there!


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## Pip

Well Shostakovich 5 springs to mind along with Saint-Saens Organ Symphony.


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## DGatsby

Thanks, I'll look them up! I have to admit I've never listened to a lot of Shostakovich, but maybe now is the time.


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## starthrower

Szymanowski-Symphony No. 4


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## joen_cph

There was an earlier thread on that subject:

http://www.talkclassical.com/7414-need-help-finding-pieces-2.html
The mentioned Shostakovich Scherzo is his op.7.

You might check this one too about some concertante pieces
http://www.talkclassical.com/23661-piano-orchestra.html

I´ll add

_Havergal Brian _Symphony no.3 
_Rued Langgaard_ Symphony no.3, no.13, as far as I remember in his 10th too (one of his best symphonies, especially in the Stupel recording), 
_Alfvén_´s great Symphony no.4 and 
_D´Indy_´s "Symphonie Cevenole".

Also_

Debussy_ "Printemps", 
_Prokofiev_ "Scythian Suite", 
_S-Saens_ Symphony no.3 
_Respighi_´s "Roman Trilogy" ("Fontane di Roma", "Pini di Roma" & "Feste di Roma") as well as 
_Takemitsu_´s beautiful "Riverrun", "Asterism", "Arc" and "Quotation from a Dream".


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## dgee

Petrouchka! Turangalila!


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## PetrB

The threads cited by joen_cph (with provided links, Thank You!) have plentiful listings:

On that list are symphonic works with a piano part: 
Roy Harris ~ Symphony No. 11





or with two pianos: 
Orff ~ Carmina Burana 
John Adams ~ Common Tones in Simple Time




Grand Pianola Music 
Stravinsky ~ Symphony of Psalms

...or four pianos, Stravinsky ~ Les Noces,

and piano concertante works, works with piano obbligato, etc.

Have a look -- quite a feast of info and material as per your request.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> The threads cited by joen_cph (with provided links, Thank You!) have plentiful listings:
> 
> On that list are symphonic works with a piano part:
> Roy Harris ~ Symphony No. 11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or with two pianos:
> Orff ~ Carmina Burana
> John Adams ~ Common Tones in Simple Time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Pianola Music
> Stravinsky ~ Symphony of Psalms
> ...or four pianos, Stravinsky ~ Les Noces,
> and piano concertante works, works with piano obbligato, etc.
> 
> Have a look -- quite a feast of info and material as per your request.


Loeffler's "A Pagan Poem ", Franck's Symphonic Variations and D'Indy's Symphony On a French Mountain Air all fall into the category.


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## AClockworkOrange

Havergal Brian's 3rd Symphony


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## tahnak

DGatsby said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm looking for orchestral pieces which include a piano but is not a concerto. I know of a couple pieces already: Wilhelm Peterson-Berger's 5th symphony, John Adam's Nixon in China, and the symphonies of Bohuslav Martinů.
> 
> I'd love to know what other ones are out there!


Stravinsky's Petrushka
Cesar Franck's Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra
Beethoven's Choral Fantasia
Tchaikovsky's Concert Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra
Frederic Chopin's Allegro and Grande Spianose Brillante
Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances
Saint Saens' Organ Symphony
Ignaz Jan Paderewski's Polish Fantasy


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## Aramis

De Falla's _Nights in the Gardens of Spain_ are much like Szymanowski's 4th symphony. Both are masterpieces of XXth century national music, written for piano and orchestra:


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## senza sordino

Villa Lobos Bachianas Brasileiras #2 Toccata Little train on the caipira (very busy piano player in the second half)
Shostakovich Symphony #1


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## MJongo

Ives Symphony No. 4 includes piano and quarter-tone piano. It is one of the three greatest symphonies of the 20th century in my opinion.


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## Mahlerian

Mahler's 8th has a barely audible piano part that appears occasionally for a few arpeggios. The part was an afterthought added during rehearsals primarily, I assume, to bring out the celesta part better.

Berg's Lulu Suite has a far more noticeable and much more independent piano part.

Speaking of Stravinsky, his Threni also uses a piano, mostly in low register staccato notes.

And it goes without saying that most of Messiaen's orchestral works include virtuosic piano parts.


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## Aramis

Mahlerian said:


> Mahler's 8th has a barely audible piano part that appears occasionally for a few arpeggios. The part was an afterthought added during rehearsals primarily, I assume, to bring out the celesta part better.


Or maybe it was like "I'm powerful like no other composer, I have created symphony for immense army of 6984423 players! AHAHAHHAHAHAHA! No...! Wait! There needs to me one more! Piano! Must be the piano!"


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## PetrB

I think this is a third thread not yet cited, with the same aim:
http://www.talkclassical.com/15306-recommend-me-good-orchestral.html


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## Mahlerian

Aramis said:


> Or maybe it was like "I'm powerful like no other composer, I have created symphony for immense army of 6984423 players! AHAHAHHAHAHAHA! No...! Wait! There needs to me one more! Piano! Must be the piano!"


His orchestra is smaller than those gargantuan ensembles used in Victorian performances of Messiah, only more varied and not nearly as muddy, because not employed tutti throughout.

After the 8th he turned even more towards chamber scoring, and I see no reason to believe that if he had lived longer he wouldn't have gone along with post-WWI trends and scored primarily for reduced groups.


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## maestro267

Bax's Symphony No. 2 has a small piano part, heard near the beginning of the first movement, and again when that same music returns in the finale.


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## Avey

+1 to *De Falla's* _Nights in the Gardens of Spain._


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## waldvogel

The chamber version of Copland's _Appalachian Spring_ uses a solo piano extensively.


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## contra7

Here is one example.


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## joen_cph

Will add a few more:

Stravinsky: Variations for Orchestra
Lutoslawski: Symphonies 3+4; "Jeux Venetiens"
Ives: 3 Pieces for Chamber Orchestra
Villa-Lobos: Bachianas no.2 (no.3 is a concertante work)
George Dyson:"The Blacksmiths" for choir, piano & orchestra


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## moody

When I last looked I thought "Nixon In China" was an opera.


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## Orfeo

Niels Wilhelm Gade's Symphony no. V (1852)


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## Radames

I've always loved the Lyapunov Ukrainian Rhapsody for piano and orchestra.






Liszt wrote a Hungarian Fantasy and Totentanz for piano and orchestra.


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## Radames

A real rarity -the Rapsodie wallonne by Adolphe Biarent. A minor piece, but he was an interesting late romantic composer. And Robert Schumann wrote a couple of pieces - an Introduction and Allegro Appassionato, Op. 92 plus an Introduction and Allegro, Op. 134.

You know there's a whole wiki page of works for piano and orchestra:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_for_piano_and_orchestra


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## PetrB

waldvogel said:


> The chamber version of Copland's _Appalachian Spring_ uses a solo piano extensively.


No and Yes, it is just one of a total of a total of thirteen instruments in that (original) chamber version. While it has some solos -- as do the other instruments from time to time -- it also does a lot of "orchestral parts duty" as well as reinforcing a texture via doublings. Ergo, it is a "piano part" in a chamber work.


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## moody

Saint-Saens; "Carnival Of the Animals."


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## DavidA

Saint Saens also wrote a piece for pedal piano and orchestra.

Then there is Berstein's Age of Anxiety symphony which has a prominent piano part.


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## PetrB

moody said:


> Saint-Saens; "Carnival Of the Animals."


two pianos, two violins, viola, cello, double bass, flute (& piccolo), clarinet (C & B♭), glass armonica, xylophone.


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