# In general population, whose number is greater...?



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

In general population, whose number is greater:
a) The number of people who have read "War and peace" in its entirety
b) The number of people who have listened to Beethoven's 9th Symphony in its entirety


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

This isn't quite a fair poll. It's likely the number of dogs, cats and iguanas that have listened to Beethoven's Ninth is higher than the number of humans who have read War and Peace cover to cover. Not sure what that proves, except that illiteracy is unconscionably low among iguanas.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

One takes a little over an hour, and the other takes 10+ hours, depending on reading speed.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I believe that War and Peace is a required text in Russian high schools. That probably accounts for about five (give or take five) Russian adolescents having read it in its entirety.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> I believe that War and Peace is a required text in Russian high schools. That probably accounts for about five (give or take five) Russian adolescents having read it in its entirety.


Not a pithy read.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

I guess more people read classic novels than listen to classical music. Yet on the other hand, time-wise, 9th symphony is much less demanding. I'm undecided.
Of those who do listen to classical music virtually everyone has listened to the 9th.
But of those who read classic novels, perhaps a minority have read War and Peace. It's just one out of so many classic novels, though very iconic.
I really have no clue. I haven't read it... I've read Anna Karenina by Tolstoy and enjoyed it very much... War and Peace is still on a to do list... probably after I graduate I'll find time for it.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

What I find really strange, is that of all the people that I know in person, I am the only one who has listened to the 9th in its entirety! What a pity... Of course, _everyone_ knows the Ode to Joy theme... We even had it in school. But sit and listen to the whole work? No one of my friend ever told me they did it, and I tried to persuade some but I had little success. Oh actually there's one more person I know who has listened to it PERHAPS... My ex-girlfriend. I gave her all Beethoven's symphonies, and she told me that she sometimes listened to them, but I can't guarantee that she "properly" listened to the 9th, in one sitting.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Maybe the 9th wins by a small margin, mainly because of its extreme popularity in Japan, and perhaps in German speaking countries. War and peace is probably a hit in Russia. And it IS an iconic work of world literature. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of serious readers have read it. But how many exactly?
Serious readers are definitely more numerous than so called "classicalheads" 


Really hard to tell for me... Didn't vote yet


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

In my personal life I know much more people who have read Anna Karenina (a lot of my friends) than listened to the 9th though (only me)...
I think Anna Karenina would easily win against the 9th, but not sure about War and Peace.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

You may find a lot of people who have read the first part of War and Peace or Anna Karenina but decided not to finish them. There are some good qualities to those books, but I could not force myself to read them all the way through for pleasure. If they had been required texts, I would have read them, though.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

ZJovicic said:


> What I find really strange, is that of all the people that I know in person, I am the only one who has listened to the 9th in its entirety! What a pity...


What's so strange about that? I hit stop on the CD player whenever the singing starts in the fourth movement of the Neinth. I pity the fool who listens to that. Listening to the Neinth before the singing? Peace. Once the singing starts? War on my ears and good taste.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

ZJovicic said:


> What I find really strange, is that *of all the people that I know in person, I am the only one who has **listened to the 9th in its entirety!* What a pity... Of course, _everyone_ knows the Ode to Joy theme... We even had it in school. But sit and listen to the whole work? No one of my friend ever told me they did it, and I tried to persuade some but I had little success. Oh actually there's one more person I know who has listened to it PERHAPS... My ex-girlfriend. I gave her all Beethoven's symphonies, and she told me that she sometimes listened to them, but I can't guarantee that she "properly" listened to the 9th, in one sitting.


You obviously need to get better friends! :lol:


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

I read War and Peace when I was 14 and loved it! It is after all, a romance and it really appealed to me as a teenage girl. I don't know why it has a reputation for being 'difficult', though it does help to have a glossary of characters. As for the 9th, I listen to all *except* the choral part which I don't like at all.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Klassik said:


> What's so strange about that? I hit stop on the CD player whenever the singing starts in the fourth movement of the Neinth. I pity the fool who listens to that. Listening to the Neinth before the singing? Peace. Once the singing starts? War on my ears and good taste.


I love that 4th movement more than any other movement in all the Beethoven symphonies.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh, you really can't say that you don't enjoy the last movement of Beethoven's 9th...or you have no _soul_!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Oh, you really can't say that you don't enjoy the last movement of Beethoven's 9th...or you have no _soul_!


It's good...until it isn't. I agree with Louis Spohr when it comes to Beethoven's Neinth Symphony.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Oh, you really can't say that you don't enjoy the last movement of Beethoven's 9th...or you have no _soul_!


I just don't like choral music


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2018)

OP why? .


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Oh, you really can't say that you don't enjoy the last movement of Beethoven's 9th...or you have no _soul_!


OK, I won't say that I don't enjoy it then... I absolutely loathe it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

To answer the question, difficult to say. I don't know people who read that kind of literature and I don't know people who listen to classical music (outside this forum).

I do suspect that most people (general population) who say they listened to the 9th, only listened to the famous melody, not even the complete 4th movement, let alone the complete symphony.

On a side note, I have seen top XX classical music lists compiled by listeners to radio stations that included both Beethoven's 9th and his Ode to Joy as separate entries............


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Klassik said:


> It's good...until it isn't. I agree with Louis Spohr when it comes to Beethoven's Neinth Symphony.


I have been lobbying for years for Beethoven to write a purely orchestral final movement to the Ninth Symphony as a rational alternative. The Choral movement for me is hectic, hysterical, goose-stepping march music. Get rid of it Ludwig!! You can do better!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> OK, I won't say that I don't enjoy it then... I absolutely loathe it.


You and me both. Caused me to change the name from Ninth Symphony to Neinth Symphony.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would rather read the Tampa phone book than listen to Beethoven's Ninth in entirety. My listening regarding the latter stops after movement three.

By the way, if Beethoven ever gets to read this, how about ditching the second movement also, it makes me very, very nervous!

The first and third movements can stand alone as a tone poem-call it Wrestling With Death & Transfiguration.

FedEx:

Lv Beethoven

Davis, CA

Please forward the above plea.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I have been lobbying for years for Beethoven to write a purely orchestral final movement to the Ninth Symphony as a rational alternative. The Choral movement for me is hectic, hysterical, goose-stepping march music. Get rid of it Ludwig!! You can do better!





hpowders said:


> You and me both. Caused me to change the name from Ninth Symphony to Neinth Symphony.


I've also been writing to Beethoven hoping for a rewrite of the 4th movement of the Neinth. Common sense won out with Beethoven dumping the horrific Große Fuge, I think common sense should win out here as well. I'm not sure why Beethoven has not rewritten the Neinth yet though. Perhaps our letters are being ignored due to all the dirty letters he's been receiving.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Klassik said:


> I've also been writing to Beethoven hoping for a rewrite of the 4th movement of the Neinth. Common sense won out with Beethoven dumping the horrific Große Fuge, I think common sense should win out here as well. I'm not sure why Beethoven has not rewritten the Neinth yet though. Perhaps our letters are being ignored due to all the dirty letters he's been receiving.


This was a composer best described by me as a "mad genius". Why couldn't he write more things like the Pastoral and simply been satisfied with being a "normal genius"?

War & Peace? The antithesis of pithiness? I simply don't have the time!! I will read the Classic Comic and report Bach here when done.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Klassik said:


> It's good...until it isn't. I agree with Louis Spohr when it comes to Beethoven's Neinth Symphony.


Yes! Louis didn't Spohrt Beethoven's Ninth!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I once lent a set of Beethoven Symphonies to a neighbour because he supposedly liked Beethoven symphonies. After 2 months i asked him how he was getting on. "Oh yeah, they're great" he said. "I've listened to the one that goes da-da-da-DAA a few times.... Well not all of it but the first bit". I called round the next day and reclaimed my CDs using the excuse that someone else wanted to borrow them. Every time I went round to one of his parties he used to tell everyone that he was a massive Beethoven fan. I used to roll my eyes and groan.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Beethoven is one of those ones I listened the **** out of in my teenage years, along with Chopin and Rachmaninoff (doesn't every piano student). I still enjoy the 9th and most of the rest of Beethoven, I literally cannot sit through Chopin or Rach anymore.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Merl said:


> "Oh yeah, they're great" he said. "I've listened to the one that goes da-da-da-DAA a few times.... Well not all of it but the first bit".


Ahh, I see we have a Beethoven connoisseur on our hands. Most people who claim to love Beethoven think the _da-da-da-DAA_ is all there is to the Fifth Symphony. :lol:


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Judging by all those posts here I am quite surprised by the result of the voting. No one thinks more people read "War and Peace" ?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Klassik said:


> Ahh, I see we have a Beethoven connoisseur on our hands. Most people who claim to love Beethoven think the _da-da-da-DAA_ is all there is to the Fifth Symphony. :lol:


Reminds me of this scene from the Simpsons......


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Merl said:


> Reminds me of this scene from the Simpsons......


Funny but sad...


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2018)

Well, if you asked my wife, she'd remember that she has read War and Peace, but not that she had heard Beethoven's 9th. "Hearing" is, of course, not quite the same as "listening".


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Merl said:


> Reminds me of this scene from the Simpsons......


If you really want to grab someone's attention with Beethoven, I find it's best to go straight to Wellington's Victory. 



ZJovicic said:


> Funny but sad...


That's about how I'd describe Philip Glass.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Poor 'Wellington' s Victory' - the 'Shiny Happy People' of Ludwig's repertoire (but far less memorable).


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Merl said:


> Poor 'Wellington' s Victory' - the 'Shiny Happy People' of Ludwig's repertoire (but far less memorable).


I don't know, I think Wellington's Victory is pretty memorable.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Klassik said:


> I don't know, I think Wellington's Victory is pretty memorable.


It's utter ***** and I love my Ludwig.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Merl said:


> It's utter ***** and I love my Ludwig.


Just because it's ***** doesn't mean it isn't memorable!  But, yeah, I kind of like Wellington's Victory. It's classical heavy metal.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

“Was ich scheisse ist besser als du je gedacht!” said Ludwig of his Op.91.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Robert Pickett said:


> "Was ich scheisse ist besser als du je gedacht!" said Ludwig of his Op.91.


Well, his chamber pot probably has better compositions than anything composed by Philip Glass. :lol: Then again, given Beethoven's Irritable Bowel Syndrome.... On second thought, explosive diarrhea is still better than anything written by Philip Glass.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I quite enjoy Glass's music, but then again I am thinking of the Danish chap Louis!


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

I read War and Peace twice, once as a teenager and again just a year or so ago. I loved it both times, although for different reasons. First time, I identified with Pierre Bezhukov, the clueless idealist, but in the later reading, to my consternation, recognized part of me in Anatole Kuragin, or at least in the way I behaved during some of my life. Tolstoy described the reckless playboy as someone who believed himself a good person, but who didn't recognize the havoc he caused in other peoples' lives. Actually, I believe I outgrew both characteristics, unless I'm just fooling myself again. But I have listened to Beethoven's 9th numerous times with great joy and no regrets.


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