# What do Baroque fans think of Meistersinger?



## RichardWagnerOfficial (Sep 11, 2021)

Considering its use of traditional musical forms (Wagner apparently calling it 'applied Bach'), do you find it easy to get into from a Baroque perspective? Is it at all artistically meaningful to you as Bach is, like with it's Lutheran chorales, or is this connection just a cool party trick and excuse to celebrate German nationalism.

Thanks in advance :tiphat:


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

After Mozart I pretty much lose interest in opera. Probably and pretty much the opposite of most, who could care less for opera before Mozart. Wish I could answer your question.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

I'm listening to the Meistersinger on Youtube right now. Just sounds like Wagner to me. But, that's just sampling 10 minutes of a 5+ hour opera. Maybe a Wagnerian could tell the difference...


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Okay, the fugal quarrel scene, Act II finale, is kinda cool; but unless I'd gone looking for it, I never would have thought to myself: "Applied Bach".


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I think Wagner's pastiche of medieval and Baroque music is very creative and there are some magnificent bits - the prelude to the third act, Walther's song, and the quintet especially. However, I find it to epitomize Rossini's infamous remark more than any other Wagner opera. I find it way, way too long and too "talky" and conversational for my liking with a lot of "musical wallpaper" (kind of like a precursor to Strauss), and the Beckmesser silliness gets grating. Also, one of my problems with Wagner is what sounds to me like constant repetition/recycling of the main themes with little variety. I would love to see it live though, which would add a lot of context and interest to the conversational stuff.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I I would love to see it live though, which would add a lot of context and interest to the conversational stuff.


There are big crowd scenes in it which can be very impressive in the theatre.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Does this sound like Wagner? I think it does


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

The Mastersingers typifies Wagner’s work having a lot of very clever stuff but being (for me but not for committed Wagnerians I know) far too long for his own good and outstaying its own welcome. I’ve never looked on it is being applied Bach. Interesting that even a committed Wagnerian like George Solti says, while describing the St Matthew Passion as ‘among the greatest masterpieces ever written,’ that ‘The musical descriptions of Christ surpass any of Wagner’s musical descriptions; maximum dramatic effects are achieved with the simplest orchestrations.’


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## RichardWagnerOfficial (Sep 11, 2021)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Also, one of my problems with Wagner is what sounds to me like constant repetition/recycling of the main themes with little variety. I would love to see it live though, which would add a lot of context and interest to the conversational stuff.


I think it would add a lot of context to the music as well. The repeating themes start to sound much more interesting because of what they say about the drama.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I happen to love the main themes from Meistersinger so hearing them throughout the opera is nothing but pleasure to my ears.


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