# How great of a conductor is Daniel Barenboim?



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

How great of a conductor is Daniel Barenboim?


----------



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I guess the question is for professional conductors who have seen him rehearsing or worked with him. For me, I am not a big fan of him, but I like some of his recordings, such as his Bruckner symphony cycle with BPO (especially the 9th).


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Bruckner Anton said:


> I guess the question is for professional conductors who have seen him rehearsing or worked with him. For me, I am not a big fan of him, but I like some of his recordings, such as his Bruckner symphony cycle with BPO (especially the 9th).


Why would professional conductors work with another conductor. I would find that quite weird. One conductor is already almost one too many.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Couchie said:


> How great of a conductor is Daniel Barenboim?


-> Parsifal.

....


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Haven't heard all of his recordings, yet his Bruckner cycles are amazing.







Superb Bruckner 4th( as good as Bohm, Klemperer and Wand( Berlin), if not better than them). 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th symphonies are all good.








5th and 9th are a must-listen.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

He has made a number of excellent recordings and some less good ones. But, more importantly for me, he gets better and better. His recent Elgar and some of his recent Bruckner is exceptional, for example. And then you have his roles in the music community - his collaborations with Edward Said and so on. A big figure, a major conductor.


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

He is great sometimes:


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

It's been 30 years since the CSO passed over Claudio Abbado for Barenboim and I still have my nose out of joint to an extent which rivals Abbado's nose being out of joint for having been passed over.

Abbado's subsequent career has significantly overshadowed that of Barenboim's.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

In my younger years he wasn't one that I followed or much cared about. But now, I rate him highly and think he's one of the true greats in the world. There are several symphony boxes out there that are beyond criticism and if they were the only recordings i had of these works it'd be ok: Brahms, Beethoven, Schumann, Bruckner. His recent remakes of the Elgar symphonies are tremendous and what little Mahler he has done is fine - the 7th from Berlin. And when you think of his history, the people he played with (Furtwangler, Barbirolli, et al) it's remarkable. He wisely stays away from music he has little affection or feel for.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

He has touched on some quite uncompromising contemporary music - Boulez, Carter, Lutoslawski and others - but could do more of them. Few conductors of his eminence even try.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

Ned Low said:


> Haven't heard all of his recordings, yet his Bruckner cycles are amazing.
> 
> Superb Bruckner 4th( as good as Bohm, Klemperer and Wand( Berlin), if not better than them). 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th symphonies are all good.
> 
> 5th and 9th are a must-listen.


I always found him stodgy. I loved his Saint-Saens 3rd but then his Frank D minor was wretched. I finally stumbled onto his Bruckner only when I found a free CD of the 5th. I never even liked the 5th that much, but his Berlin Phil recording is awesome. I saw him conduct live a few years back in Boston - Beethoven 3rd. STODGY!


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Of "mainstream" (i.e. not HIP, avantgarde or other specialist but actually even including them) I am not sure who is superior to Barenboim in his generation (say born mid 1930s through mid 1950s). Chailly, Rattle, Gardiner? Doubtful... 
Abbado (1933) was more famous in the 80s/90s but I am not so sure how well he does/will do posthumuously.

So I'd say first rate which does not necessarily mean he is always up with the all time greats two generations older than him who were active in the mid-20th century.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Barenboim is very good, sometimes great, occasionally ok....he did some terrific things in Chicago - his CSO Bruckner cycle is magnificent..i heard him conduct CSO in Bruckner 8 live in Boston, it it was terrific....but the real prize was Wagner "Parsifal" Prelude...that was amazing, truly memorable....


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I know many Chicago Symphony season ticket holders that thought him a mediocrity when he ran their orchestra. I don't think that necessarily means he is a mediocrity.

I think same about the responses to this survey. I think Barenboim neither a great nor mediocre conductor. I think he is/was a great pianist who gained a lot of fame being married to an artist who died young on a big stage.

I listened to everything he conducted that anyone has ever told me was any good and only some Bizet and the St. Saens "Organ" symphony seemed like it was that good to me. Everything else -- including all his much talked about Bruckner from both sets -- did not match the excellence I heard elsewhere.

He seemed often to me trying to Furtwangler-ize music. In the case of his Tchaikovsky, for example, the approach rendered it flaccid and tubby instead of emotionally charged and exciting. Furtwangler didn't do it the way Daniel did. Barenboim also recorded some ordinary Mozart in music where Furtwangler found great humanity and depth.

To me, then, he is neither a first nor second nor third rate conductor but better fits the profile of an overrated conductor.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-claudio-abbado-dead-20140120-column.html

"Abbado made his CSO podium debut in January 1971, two months after Daniel Barenboim also conducted the orchestra for the first time. Abbado was only the second conductor in history to be named principal guest of the Chicago Symphony; Carlo Maria Giulini was the first. As such, Abbado proved a much-valued member of the podium team surrounding music director Georg Solti during the 1980s, when his Italianate warmth made a good foil to Solti's Hungarian fire."

Abbado and Barenboim were the only two candidates on management's list of candidates under consideration to succeed Solti as CSO music director following the latter's retirement in 1991 (Solti died in 1997). Although Abbado was the clear favorite of the local press, the public and reportedly half of the orchestra players, and privately expressed interest in extending his relationship with the orchestra, he was never approached by then-CSO Association President Henry Fogel, who openly supported Barenboim. Solti also threw in his lot with Barenboim. Barenboim's selection was announced in 1989.

Abbado returned to the CSO to fulfill previously contracted CSO guest commitments in February 1990 and March 1991, and never conducted the orchestra after that, although he did appear here with his Berlin Philharmonic."


----------



## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

He's one of the best I've seen or heard when he's both conductor, and soloist on the piano.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

larold said:


> I know many Chicago Symphony season ticket holders that thought him a mediocrity when he ran their orchestra. I don't think that necessarily means he is a mediocrity.


Following an All-Star is really tough....Solti was a huge success, who had a great tenure with CSO....big shoes to fill....Martinon ran into the same problem following Reiner, as did Barbirolli at NYPO, after Toscanini....


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Couchie said:


> Why would professional conductors work with another conductor. I would find that quite weird. One conductor is already almost one too many.


It often takes a good conductor too know one -- but experienced orchestral musicians are pretty good judges also (this applies to technical ability -- not necessarily interpretive chops).


----------



## LeoPiano (Nov 1, 2020)

I don't think I can vote in this poll because I haven't heard a lot of his recordings, but the stuff that I have heard (his Parsifal and Beethoven symphonies) is quite good. He seems like one of the better modern conductors of today but I don't know if I can vote him as first-rate or second-rate. He seems in between to me based on what I've heard from him.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I voted 'First Rate'. For me, he's tip-top. I couldn't't do without his Beethoven, Bruckner or Brahms cycles. That's to say nothing of his Wagner and marvellous work with the Divan ensembles.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> I voted 'First Rate'. For me, he's tip-top. I couldn't't do without his Beethoven, Bruckner or Brahms cycles. That's to say nothing of his Wagner and marvellous work with the Divan ensembles.


Totally agree; would just add that I've always been smitten by his Mozart piano concerto recordings.


----------



## ObscurePlayer (Oct 29, 2013)

The best Wagner conductor alive. Their other problems notwithstanding, his Tristan und Isolde and Ring cycle are magisterial examples of conducting and orchestral performance. His Schumann cycle is stunning and I like the Beethoven, too. I say first-rate.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

.....................................


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

larold said:


> I think same about the responses to this survey. I think Barenboim neither a great nor mediocre conductor. I think he is/was a great pianist who gained a lot of fame being married to an artist who died young on a big stage.


I do not remember it like that. At the time Barenboim was widely recognised in Britain as very much the leader of his musical generation - a far bigger figure that du Pre (who was still acknowledged as an exciting musician) - at the centre of a substantial group of other young stars (including Zukerman). He was often on television, explaining or performing music. In those days he was mostly known as a pianist but he was already beginning to conduct. The slightly later tragedy of du Pre didn't seem to be the source of his fame. Nor did it seem to add to it. Perhaps his reputation in USA grew later (the Atlantic was bigger in those days) but he was as well known a figure as any in the classical music scene in Britain from long before du Pre's tragedy.


----------



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

He has been conducting recordings for 50 years. There are inevitably a few keepers but for the most part he can’t keep his inner Furtwangler suppressed. I was listening to him conducting the Dvorak Cello Concerto a few weeks back with his tragically deceased wife and all I kept saying was “Ugh!”. Distorted, bloated tempos and point making throughout. The music never flows


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Triplets said:


> He has been conducting recordings for 50 years. There are inevitably a few keepers but for the most part he can't keep his inner Furtwangler suppressed. I was listening to him conducting the Dvorak Cello Concerto a few weeks back with his tragically deceased wife and all I kept saying was "Ugh!". Distorted, bloated tempos and point making throughout. The music never flows


I'd rather not give him a firm vote either way just suffice it to say that there's some wonderful stuff of his and a few bummers but the hits far outweigh the duds, for me. When he gets all Furty (eg. His Beethoven For All symphony cycle) or when he goes for tension over drama (his Brahms CSO cycle) he invariably fails. When he concentrates on being Barenboim and conducting with power/drama he often gets it all right (his Berlin Beethoven and Brahms cycles).


----------

