# Do you look down on popular music (not prog or jazz etc.)?



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Do you look down on the normal, relatively simple kind of popular music normal people listen to as something that hardly requires any talent at least when it comes to composing it?


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I probably look down on Prog more than many other types of popular music. Well, maybe I don't look down on it, but I dislike it.

A lot of the stuff that requires "hardly any talent" probably does require more talent than we give it credit for, even if it sounds simple. Plus, a lot of pop is about performance rather than composition.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I look down on classical snobs. Especially when I have a balcony seat!


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2015)

I'm quite tall, so I suppose I can't help but look down on any music which is beneath me.


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Well I'm a great composer and sideways facing down so obviously I look down on everyone.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

If I listen to popular music at all, it's either when I'm driving, in which case I look straight ahead, or when I'm watching TV (hung on wall), in which case I'm looking slightly up.

Then again, I do have some old LPs on the floor in my closet. But, my turntable is on top of a filing cabinet, so I suppose I look both down on and up at it within a few minutes span.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Not all popular music is simpler than classical. For example many Schubert songs have the piano just playing a simple bass note / triad-triad-triad accompaniment. Prog and jazz, like it or not, is demonstrably many _many_ times more complicated. But no genre (except maybe Black Midi) is about complexity alone. Writing a simple theme is not as simple as it seems, so I admire that ability too. For example, I was/am a big Men Without Hats fan. I can't imagine how that guy writes the simple melodies he does.

When I was young I did not like any non-classical. I was the archetypal classical snob because my only exposure to non-classical was the lowest common denominator stuff I heard on the radio, but eventually I learned better and now have a much richer wider listening experience.


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Now that I think about it, this probably shouldn't be in the non-classical forum, despite the fact that it is about non-classical music.


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I tried listening to non-classical music today, and not just anything, but long time favorites across different genres... and it didn't work. Everything sounded flat and two dimensional. So I decided to wash it all away with Mahler 2 finale.


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

but no, I don't look down on it (except for metal :devil


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I enjoy foot-stomping tail-wagging music from time to time  but I can't help thinking, from time to time, that I've found something much more satisfying in CM. When I hear popular lyrics I often groan and want to run and I'm not even trained in music, but I can see through most of it in less than a minute—and this is music that is supposed to be composed by great artists who are the top people in the musical world today!? Well, like I said, I can dig it when I feel like dancing and when I want to re-experience some teenage angst—and that still gives me a lot of fun


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I cannot understand why or how anyone would excoriate themselves for liking or not liking some particular genre of music at any particular time in their lives. With only a tiny handful of exceptions, I continue to enjoy today any music I enjoyed last year or last decade or 60 years ago. Perhaps this is because A) I was brought up in a household where I routinely heard both classical and popular music, this in the late 1940s, and B) I still recall the excitement and enthusiasm and joy I experienced when introduced to the newer musics that I encountered at an early age. I was 12 in 1952 when, to my delight and amazement, I discovered WNJR in Newark NJ, a station playing "race" music--Doo-***, Blues, and Rhythm and Blues exclusively. Shortly thereafter, I discovered the magic of sung Flamenco. Some musics never clicked with me--Jazz, for instance; Heavy Metal--but I never jettison old musical loves for newer ones; I just add the New to the Old. Maybe I never grew up; I just got older.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Yes, I look down on popular music because, let's be honest, most of it is worthless--it is creatively and morally bankrupt. What kind contribution are Miley Cyrus and Tailor Swift making to society? What they're doing is merely prostituting and making fools of themselves. If you have daughters and they happen to be fans of these two knuckleheads, you should be very concerned.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Morimur said:


> Yes, I look down on popular music because, let's be honest, most of it is worthless--it is creatively and morally bankrupt. What kind contribution are Miley Cyrus and Tailor Swift making to society? What they're doing is merely prostituting and making fools of themselves. If you have daughters and they happen to be fans of these two knuckleheads, you should be very concerned.


OK, Benedict! And coming from the former head of a legion of sex offenders. But seriously, it's sad that kids can't even have decent bubble gum music these days. The record business is run by a bunch of heartless, greedy schmucks.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Morimur said:


> What kind contribution are Miley Cyrus and Tailor Swift making to society? What they're doing is merely prostituting and making fools of themselves. If you have daughters and they happen to be fans of these two knuckleheads, you should be very concerned.


I would be shocked if anyone on TC has brought as much joy and happiness to humanity as either Cyrus or Swift. In fact I think it's quite possible that each has brought more happiness to others than the entire TC membership combined. I don't listen to either of them, and the little I've seen of Cyrus's behavior makes me uncomfortable. Still I would be thrilled beyond belief if I could give even a modest number of people the joy that her work routinely does.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

How's this (in reply to Morimur)?: I only like good popular music, and I detest (look down on) bad popular music. Works for me every time.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I think that great creativity can manifest in popular music, but it has it's limitations and on the whole(this is a huge generalization) I think it requires less 'brains' to make music in that manner. So, although I like some popular music and do perceive the bs of artificial categorization thanks to record companies and provincial mentalities, I believe classical music is genuinely much subtler when it comes to the craft. Take that for what it's worth; creativity and inspiration are perhaps the most important elements, the soul of the music. But the skeletons of classical music are usually more interesting and have much more 'housing space' for inspiration.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I voted yes because as a class, Popular Music, I do look down on much of what is out there. In fact, I don't like to use the term Pop Music to refer to anything I listen to, but rather call it non-classical. I like to think that the non-classical I like (Neil Young for example) is many cuts above much of Pop Music.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

No.....................................


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

For those of you who voted:



> No.....................................


What proportion/percentage of your listening time is to non-classical? If it is less than 50%, why don't you listen to the music you love?

Also, are you keeping up with non-classical music, or is your experience of it the music of your youth/past (before discovering classical)?


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't know anything about pop music after c.1970. I don't look down on it - it just doesn't appeal.

Pop music between c.1955 and 1970 - I love it. It brings back so many memories. I don't look down on it because I think many of the songs - the Beatles, Brenda Lee - had melody & impact, much as folk music does, and I have always been a 'folkie' and always will be.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

brotagonist said:


> For those of you who voted:
> 
> What proportion/percentage of your listening time is to non-classical? If it is less than 50%, why don't you listen to the music you love?
> 
> Also, are you keeping up with non-classical music, or is your experience of it the music of your youth/past (before discovering classical)?


I'd say less than 1% of my listening is to non-classical. I _do_ listen to the music I love (maybe I misunderstood what you are asking).

I do not keep up with non-classical. The vast majority of my experience is with the music of my past.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Most of my exposure to non-classical is performing it. At Christmas time most of the music we perform is non-classical. The summer concerts I play are mostly non-classical. Overall I would guess half of the music I perform is non-classical. I enjoy the music when the arrangements are good. I have been playing _The Sound of Music_ a lot. The Robert Russell Bennett arrangement is the best.

Most of my listening to non-classical is on You Tube.


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> How's this (in reply to Morimur)?: I only like good popular music, and I detest (look down on) bad popular music. Works for me every time.


"Detest"? Not quite the right word to describe how I feel about some pop music, but I agree with your general point. I don't look down on an entire genre, but as I explained elsewhere, there have been acts and songs that I've "detested", though they've not been on the basis of good/bad.


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> For those of you who voted:
> 
> What proportion/percentage of your listening time is to non-classical? If it is less than 50%, why don't you listen to the music you love?
> 
> Also, are you keeping up with non-classical music, or is your experience of it the music of your youth/past (before discovering classical)?


I voted No.
I DO listen to the music I love, so I'm clearly missing the gist of your question?
I keep up as much as I ever did, i.e. selectively. I discovered two new bands I like only a day or two ago (Down and Electric Wizard, seeing as you didn't ask!)


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I spend my listening-to-music time about equally on classical, rock/pop, and traditional flamenco song, with a smidgen on various other "ethnic" musics. Each is in its own way a whole world unto itself, and being someone completely at ease with my musical tastes, I never find myself second-guessing my choices. The best Latin I ever learned begins, "de gustibus........". But I'd like to repeat here that I only like good music.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't look down on all non-classical music, but on _popular_ music I do. Most of the non-classical music I listen to is not terribly popular, and the "normal, relatively simple kind of popular music normal people listen to" I would not touch with a ten-foot pole.

As for percentage of non-classical music in my life, it varies, but mostly stays under 50/


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Most of my non-classical listening time is prog or prog related and jazz, so that does not count. I do listen to pop and soft rock from the 70s and 80s, in total maybe 5% of my time. I do not see any reason to look down on it.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

brotagonist said:


> What proportion/percentage of your listening time is to non-classical? *If it is less than 50%, why don't you listen to the music you love?*
> 
> Also, are you keeping up with non-classical music, or is your experience of it the music of your youth/past (before discovering classical)?


The question in bold seems to suggest that if a listener does not look down at pop music, then they must not love classical music. That is ridiculous.

In answer to your second question, I listen mostly to non-classical music from my past and spend most of my time exploring new music with classical.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I haven't liked much popular music since 2006.

But saying that I like 70s, 80s, 90s-2005 pop music probably makes you ridicule me!


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

> Do you look down on the normal, relatively simple kind of popular music normal people listen to as something that hardly requires any talent at least when it comes to composing it?


I think you are simplifying the categorizing a bit .

There are awful examples, being the results of either cynicism, or repeated narrow-mindedness.
And there is a lot of great, popular music out there too.

All genres have examples of both.

Personally, I used to be a hardliner, but have softened my attitude a lot. Still have a phobia of Eurovision, in spite of its social if uniform gatherings, though.

But what I really wish is that classical music would be more commonly appreciated.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

There is a thread in a forum about 80s pop music with lots of names and music videos:

http://vroomvroom.freeforums.net/thread/513/80s-pop

Do you people find them better than current ones like Rihanna and Lady Gaga?


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

The four-minute pop song is a great, versatile form. I really admire it when it's done well.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

And I really detest Nicki Minaj and Lady Gaga.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Include me as a big fan of 70s through 2005 pop also. 50s and 60s pop, too.


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> The four-minute pop song is a great, versatile form. I really admire it when it's done well.


Agreed, when it's done well--though I wish 2 - 3 minutes was still the norm.


----------



## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

I think for many people as they get older contemporary 'pop' music gets less and less relevant to them (as is intended, I think). My peak engagement with "contemporary popular music" was between the ages of about 10 and 20. Later at about 30 I moved areas and for a short time lived with some younger people who introduced me to the 'Indie' music they were into. It was OK, and I quite liked some of it, but it mostly sounded derivative from what I had been listening to as a teenager. Something similar happened again when I was in my 40s and my daughter reached her teens.

I certainly don't look down on non-classical music (I am quite keen on jazz), but I'm just not engaged by much of it - I can see that other people are, and that's fine. I still have the odd flirt with rock music programmes on the BBC from time to time.


----------



## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

My playlist regularly goes -

Music history / World Music / Classical label / Selected Non-classical Group or Artist 1 / Selected Classical Group or Artist / Selected Non-classical Group or Artist 2 / Selected Composer

So 3/7 of what I regularly listen to is not classical

Keeps me from getting jaded


(Whether the non-classical I listen to could be called "pop" or not is probably a matter of definition. None of it is too contemporary, because like others have said, I'm a bit of an old geezer. The world music is newer. The other non-classical is mostly 1960's-1970s.)

I like my other answer a lot better.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

brotagonist said:


> What proportion/percentage of your listening time is to non-classical? If it is less than 50%, why don't you listen to the music you love?
> 
> Also, are you keeping up with non-classical music, or is your experience of it the music of your youth/past (before discovering classical)?


These questions don't really apply, Bro. I love ice cream but it is way less than 50% of my caloric intake.

It becomes harder to keep up with current trends as we get older, but I'd like to think I _am_ up to date on electronic music trends which seems to have several thousand sub-genres, but I guess that isn't really pop.

I think the consensus this discussion seems to be reaching, through separate rationales, is that more popular generally equals more fluff / less substance, but not necessarily, and there is a vast mine of less popular non-classical with a lot of artistic integrity to last the ages just as CM does.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

dogen said:


> I voted No.
> I DO listen to the music I love, so I'm clearly missing the gist of your question?
> I keep up as much as I ever did, i.e. selectively. I discovered two new bands I like only a day or two ago (Down and Electric Wizard, seeing as you didn't ask!)


I love Electric Wizard and stoner rock in general. My headphones don't, but I do. I wouldn't call them new exactly but what a sound!


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Upon reflection my honest answer is somewhere between "no" and "a little bit". I genuinely like a lot of it, but am not as interested in it as I used to be, and I think a lot of it is pretty uninspired. To people that love it I often point out in subtle ways that there are other forms of music too that are generally more sophisticated, advanced and less derivative. 

I don't think this is exactly "looking down" on it, but in a way it kind of is.

I think it is more out of a desire to help educate people about music in a broader sense.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

In my case, my interest in contemporary Rock and Pop has been kept fresh (until quite recently) by associating with younger people willing to lend me CDs, as they valued having their tastes made known to someone outside their usual circle. Beginning in 1989 I worked for about ten years with a young woman who, with her then boyfriend (and future husband), was passionate about Indie rock, Grunge, and the then-exploding population of women rockers and singer-songwriters. I thus enjoyed, as I had before several times, a renaissance, a renewal in my appreciation for much popular music, which has served me well ever since. Since I do not jettison the old to make way for the new, my stock of memorable music, Rock and Pop, just keeps getting larger. Life is Good.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't look down on pop music, but I do find that as I get older I try not to look at it at all.


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> Do you look down on *the normal, relatively simple kind of popular music normal people* listen to as something that hardly requires any talent at least when it comes to composing it?


At the risk of annoying the anti-semantics, would you mind exemplifying old fruit? Rather like "classical", "popular" is a vague term that can embrace, IMO, quite a broad range - as can "prog" and "jazz" - so I'm, not sure whether any of the last x non-classical CDs I've purchased would count as either something to look down on, or something to boast that I'm still listening to when I should have growed up.

Last two purchases were _This Is All Yours_ by alt-J and _Carrie and Lowell_ by Sufjan Stevens. Before that, _Wanted on Voyage_ by George Ezra.

If we're limited to considering Bieber, Gaga, Minaj (or any other two syllable pop act) it's not really much of a genre (in terms of breadth, that is) to worry about.


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

isorhythm said:


> The four-minute pop song is a great, versatile form. I really admire it when it's done well.


Strangely it was even more versatile when it was 3 minutes or less. Now that I admire.


----------



## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Not sure any two posters above could actully agree what Pop music is. They seem to be taking the 'I know it when I hear it' approach ...selectively applied.

To select just two mentined above, both Neil Young and the Beatles have enjoyed great popular chart success. So what is it exactly that poeple don't like/detest?


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2015)

Belowpar said:


> Strangely it was even more versatile when it was 3 minutes or less. Not that I admire.


A quick look at the recording times for The Beatles early albums, they didn't cross the 3:00 threshold _significantly _until _Sgt Pepper_ (though _You Won't See Me _on _Rubber Soul_ was 3:23, the rest were all sub 3 mins - and I know we all agree how that draaags). Even then, 9 out 13 tracks were below it.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Morimur said:


> Yes, I look down on popular music because, let's be honest, most of it is worthless--it is creatively and morally bankrupt. What kind contribution are Miley Cyrus and Tailor Swift making to society? What they're doing is merely prostituting and making fools of themselves. If you have daughters and they happen to be fans of these two knuckleheads, you should be very concerned.


I almost want to get my very first infraction on behalf of my Taylor-Swift-loving 9-year-old daughter. But it's not worth it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 2, 2015)

Weston said:


> I love Electric Wizard and stoner rock in general. My headphones don't, but I do. I wouldn't call them new exactly but what a sound!


Er I agree, I meant "new to me." Got any recommendations? I'd say my gold standard is Kyuss.


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Sorry to say, I do look down on some.

Modernl pop and R&B, that is actually written by committee by in Sweden, I can't help but view with disdain. 

Rap and Hip Hop is hard for me not to look down on. 

Almost anything with auto-tune.

'Smooth Jazz'. Don't get me started...


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Simon Moon said:


> Sorry to say, I do look down on some.
> 
> Modernl pop and R&B, that is actually written by committee by in Sweden, I can't help but view with disdain.
> 
> ...


Yes!

Where is the pass-the-sick-bag icon?


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I mentioned before that neither Jazz nor Heavy Metal clicked with me. To that list, I'll also add that I am not the intended audience for Rap or Country and Western. I much prefer, though, the usage "not the intended audience for" instead of the much harsher and judgmental "I look down upon". It always galls people to have it implied that they ought not to enjoy whatever music they do enjoy; hackles are raised almost instantly, don't you find?


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This thread reminds me of this shirt. The ad says, 
"Let the world know their taste in music sucks."


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Guilty pleasure. I have been listening to ABBA on YouTube.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

I'm not an Abba fan but when they came along their brand of well-crafted, distinctive pop sounded quite fresh, as did quite a lot of 70s pop. I would argue that 90% of the stuff which gunks up today's singles charts like a malfunctioning sewer conduit is generic sounding, push-button lowest common denominator r 'n' b/rap/boyband garbage or insipid singer-songwriter gloop, both of which totally lack distinction to the point where it actually does begin to insult my intelligence.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> I would argue that 90% of the stuff which gunks up today's singles charts like a malfunctioning sewer conduit is generic sounding, push-button lowest common denominator r 'n' b/rap/boyband garbage or insipid singer-songwriter gloop, both of which totally lack distinction to the point where it actually does begin to insult my intelligence.


Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap.

I think we classical music fans may be fortunate in that history has already done the job of eliminating a substantial amount of that 90%.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I love Sturgeon's Law. Over the years many of us have tried to make this point.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Nereffid said:


> Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap.


Does it also mean that only 90% of crap is a crap and if yes, what is the other 10% of crap?


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Nereffid said:


> Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap.


Can't help linking this applicable Neil Young song.


----------



## The Member Who Forgot (Sep 2, 2015)

I do and am happy to admit it, for me Simon Bowel is the anti-christ of music.


----------



## Guest (Nov 3, 2015)

Simon Moon said:


> Almost anything with auto-tune.


Good job you said "almost anything" because Britney is auto-tuned.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

dogen said:


> Good job you said "almost anything" because Britney is auto-tuned.


Britney is auto-tuned?!?! NOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO...!


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Things must be getting better. I learned it as a variant of Murphy's Law, that 95% of everything is crap. I think 95% is the more accurate figure. The invention of the CD and the skip feature on the CD player was an enormous positive step, however, because it allowed me to go through my son-in-law's discarded Heavy Metal collection in record time, and come up with.....nothing. Also great for cutting through county library CD collections of Rock and Pop.


----------



## Guest (Nov 3, 2015)

Morimur said:


> Britney is auto-tuned?!?! NOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO...!


Even a diamond can be polished.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Things must be getting better. I learned it as a variant of Murphy's Law, and that 95% of everything is crap. I think 95% is the more accurate figure. The invention of the CD and the skip feature on the CD player was an enormous positive step, however, because it allowed me to go through my son-in-law's discarded Heavy Metal collection in record time, and come up with.....nothing. Also great for cutting through county library CD collections of Rock and Pop.


95% of everything is crap? Well, I am a nihilist so I'd say more like 99.9%. And if you follow the news you'll rightly come to the conclusion than in a relatively short span of time planet earth will be an absolute hell for _everybody_.

That's right . . . EVERyboDAYy!


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Morimur said:


> 95% of everything is crap? Well, I am a nihilist so I'd say more like 99.9%. And if you follow the news you'll rightly come to the conclusion than in a relatively short span of time planet earth will be an absolute hell for _everybody_.
> 
> That's right . . . EVERyboDAYy!


Cheer up. We will die all eventually so it will be just temporary.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Morimur said:


> And if you follow the news you'll rightly come to the conclusion than in a relatively short span of time planet earth will be an absolute hell for _everybody_.!


The Reverend Malthus, and later, Paul Ehrlich and Garrett Hardin, made this abundantly clear decades if not more than a century ago. I listen to music both for its own intrinsic value to me, but also to give me respite and balm.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> Cheer up. We will die all eventually so it will be just temporary.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap.
> 
> I think we classical music fans may be fortunate in that history has already done the job of eliminating a substantial amount of that 90%.


But as we can see over the last few centuries, history tends to be very random in what it eliminates. While various individuals have managed to un-eliminate a lot of worthwhile music, I wonder just how much really good music has been inadvertently lost.


----------



## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

The older I get the less ***** I seem to give about my own tastes - nowadays I just listen to whatever the hell I like and leave the rest alone. Strangely somehow it really doesn't seem to matter whether I "look down" on something or not. 

It seems oddly... inapposite *shrug*.


----------



## FPwtc (Dec 3, 2014)

Duke Ellington: There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

For every genre, there are good and bad music. Thus, limiting oneself to only one or two specific genres is like going to a buffet and eating only two dishes :angel:


----------



## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

Popular music is different depending what part of the globe you're on. Personally, i have no problem with simplicity in some music. I like some u2 and i like alice in chains.

I listen to a lot of technical death metal where part of the objective is to be techical.

I don't like country music, r&b, and a lot of blues music.

I think a lot of my favorite music is not easily categorized. I have a problem with most music that has a cookie cutter type of foundation.


----------



## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

I agree with people that 99.9% of stuff is crap. I think that the proof is seen when browsing through cd stores (the few that still exist). There is just so much freakin' garbage that isn't even worth recognizing. Every genre. Once or twice, I shopped based on cd covers/titles. It seems like any time I give something a chance at random and not direct reference/suggestion, it ends up being crap.


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Open Lane said:


> I agree with people that 99.9% of stuff is crap. I think that the proof is seen when browsing through cd stores (the few that still exist). There is just so much freakin' garbage that isn't even worth recognizing. Every genre. Once or twice, I shopped based on cd covers/titles. It seems like any time I give something a chance at random and not direct reference/suggestion, it ends up being crap.


It is not even crap.
I feel completely indifferent when I hear Britney Spears, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, Beyonce and the rest.
This is what I think is what make their music so popular it doesn´t disturb and therefore it can be played all the time. Now I don´t have a music channel on TV and I am not listening to the radio stations that play these artists so I don´t have to listen to this music.


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

^^^ Just remember that one person's crap is another person's gold. I remember the time when Pearl Jam and Nirvana first came out, "music critics" dismissed them as "pure unadulterated whiny noise" and basically "their music sucks". Fast forward 2007, critics darling The Strokes' Julian Casablancas said, "Pearl Jam made us appreciate the power of music" .:angel:


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Iean said:


> ^^^ Just remember that one person's crap is another person's gold. I remember the time when Pearl Jam and Nirvana first came out, "music critics" dismissed them as "pure unadulterated whiny noise" and basically "their music sucks". Fast forward 2007, critics darling The Strokes' Julian Casablancas said, "Pearl Jam made us appreciate the power of music" .:angel:


At least Nirvana was crap.


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

^^^I'm very sorry to disagree but a lot of Nirvana's songs are good (especially all the songs in Nevermind). Even Dave Grohl admits that even if Foo Fighters have four Best Rock Albums from Grammys, he still considers his music with Nirvana as "peerless'. Ask any aspiring band to cite their musical inspiration and there's a big chance they'll mention Nirvana. :angel:


----------



## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

You really don't think there is mostly crap out there? Think about all of the albums that are produced with commercial reception in mind, and those albums that basically shadow and water down what are/were current trends at the moment?

I understand the whole "another mans trash is another mans gold" but really, do you think that even qualifies for half of the garbage that is being pumped out?


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

^^^ it doesn't mean that since an album was produced for commercial purposes, it is automatically trash...because if that is the case, then all Beatles' and Rolling Stones' and even Pink Floyd's albums are crap...for every music genre, there's good music and there's trash..this applies even to classical music:angel:


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Cobain was a guy who possessed a very modest (anemic & underdeveloped) talent for writing simple melodies. In the rock/pop world, that goes a long way. If one is coming to it from a classical/jazz perspective, the whole Nirvana cult thing can be a bit confusing—what's the big deal about a guy who can write jingles but refuses to evolve beyond a few cord progressions? It's quite pathetic. But you know the kids, give them a dry turd in multicolored paint and they think it's the second coming.


----------



## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

No, but it will noted to not play his music in you general direction.


----------



## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

You are looking at the wrong side of the cage.


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

Morimur said:


> Cobain was a guy who possessed a very modest (anemic & underdeveloped) talent for writing simple melodies. In the rock/pop world, that goes a long way. If one is coming to it from a classical/jazz perspective, the whole Nirvana cult thing can be a bit confusing-what's the big deal about a guy who can write jingles but refuses to evolve beyond a few cord progressions? It's quite pathetic. But you know the kids, give them a dry turd in multicolored paint and they think it's the second coming.


In 2005, the Library of Congress added *Nevermind* to the National Recording Registry, which collects *"culturally, historically or aesthetically important"* sound recordings from the 20th century:angel:


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Iean said:


> In 2005, the Library of Congress added *Nevermind* to the National Recording Registry, which collects *"culturally, historically or aesthetically important"* sound recordings from the 20th century:angel:


Congress is full of @$$h0les. Thank you.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

This discussion often refers to good and bad music. No such things exist. There is only music you like, and music you don't. Not myself a big Nirvana fan; prefer Mother Love Bone, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, some Soundgarden....


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> This discussion often refers to good and bad music. No such things exist. There is only music you like, and music you don't. Not myself a big Nirvana fan; prefer Mother Love Bone, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, some Soundgarden....


I have to agree with you. The music that people considered "trash" is actually the music that they dont like. And if only for "Halo of Ashes", i think Dust is Screaming Trees' best CD:angel:


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Iean said:


> ^^^I'm very sorry to disagree but a lot of Nirvana's songs are good (especially all the songs in Nevermind). Even Dave Grohl admits that even if Foo Fighters have four Best Rock Albums from Grammys, he still considers his music with Nirvana as "peerless'. Ask any aspiring band to cite their musical inspiration and there's a big chance they'll mention Nirvana. :angel:


With crap I mean that the music could cause some sort of reaction and not just work as a background sound.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Morimur said:


> Congress is full of @$$h0les. Thank you.


Congress itself has no say over what is added to the National Registry.


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Interestingly I am the only one who voted " No, but I used to".


----------



## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

Crap etc. mark you as a particular generation. The do not make others generations think of you as expressing truths, but instead ignore you.


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I occasionally look sideways at popular music, with a malicious glint in my eye.


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> Congress itself has no say over what is added to the National Registry.


Don't get smart, mamba.:tiphat:


----------



## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

fair enough. My categorizing some music as crap is wrong. It is infact just music i dislike. I dislike a lot more music than i like. Simplicity/popularity wise, doesn't necessrtally seem to matter to me. Music i dislike is just that.., music i don't like

I thonk the point i was trying to make is that there is a lot of it (for me anyway) of all genres.


Yes, there is also plenty of classical i find not worth my time.


----------



## Jorge Hereth (Aug 16, 2015)

Why should I?

We all have our tastes and preferences, and I also pretty love Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Country, Blues, Sertanejo music and MPB.

You guys wanna know what? Until not very long ago I used to look down at classical music. Not for the music itself, but for having it, like most low income Brazilians, as a gateway to give social differences an also cultural aspect. Like most Brazilians also I had classical music as something bourgeois and elitist. Our "that stuff's been made for the rich ones, not for me" reasoning. When you look at the entrance fees of opera houses, theaters and other classical music events here and then you look at what we use to earn here, you'll understand where such conclusions come from.

Things have started to change in the last ten years when on one hand computers and the Internet have become accessible to nearly everybody and state TVs started to transmit classical music live shows more frequently, and on the other hand classical music has shown up more and more on free download sites. These factors have helped lots to diminish our misconceptions on classical music and to give classical music a more widespread interest.

You enter a Brazilian megastore's media section - common CD stores generally don't sell classical music - or one of those big city high culture CD stores and you'll realize you have to be at least an upper middle class one to be able to afford classical music CDs. And worse, the offers for classical music are very random, you can't go into a CD sector and look for something specific: they'll never have it. Well, you can place an order for something specific, but in that case it too often will depend on imports, and should your order ever arrive - it might happen - you'll see yourself having spent the equivalent to something in a range of U$ 75,00 to US$ 300,00 for Verdi's _Trovatore_...

And regrettably for Jazz, Blues, Country music and everything else which is not considered mainstream the situation is not much better.


----------



## Beethoven456 (Dec 21, 2015)

i used to like Cyrus before she turned crazy i love Swift


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

To me, the term 'popular music' covers so many genres and subgenres and it goes way back, so I can't look down on it. However, I look down on many different kind of music I found to be bad, but not particulary on pop music even though there are many garbage in pop music.


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Sometimes i find it shallow and of low quality, but to each his own, i guess...


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Jorge Hereth said:


> Why should I?
> 
> We all have our tastes and preferences, and I also pretty love Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Country, Blues, Sertanejo music and MPB.
> 
> ...


Good to not live there.
What about radio?


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

For me one of the characteristics of good music is that it relies on itself. That is, you should be able to listen to it on CD and have it move you regardless of how the performer looks or what show he puts on. Most of popular music is just the opposite: its popularity depends on the looks of the performers (all those boy- and girl-bands) or the stage show. Rammstein is the only exception I can think of for now - they always put on a huge expensive show with all those pyrotechnics which I don't really care for, but I find some of their music to be good on its own merits.


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Iean said:


> In 2005, the Library of Congress added *Nevermind* to the National Recording Registry, which collects *"culturally, historically or aesthetically important"* sound recordings from the 20th century:angel:


Besides your post being the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam, the "or" in above quote from the National Recording Registry is very important.

It is quite possible that NRR considers Nevermind to be "culturally and historically important" without considering it "aesthetically important".


----------



## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> That is, you should be able to listen to it on CD and have it move you regardless of how the performer looks or what show he puts on. Most of popular music is just the opposite: its popularity depends on the looks of the performers.


I always get comments for voting for pretty girls in talent shows like Idol and Eurovision song contest.


----------



## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

well, I think I do look down on it . But if I go for a party and we dance, then I enjoy this music ( obviously they play non-classical)


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2015)

SiegendesLicht said:


> For me one of the characteristics of good music is that it relies on itself. That is, you should be able to listen to it on CD and have it move you regardless of how the performer looks or what show he puts on. Most of popular music is just the opposite:


Having been on a classical 'pause', and listening instead to some 'popular' music, I could not disagree more, although since neither of us can quantify the amount of 'popular' music there is, it'll be difficult to then quantify how much of it (little, lot, quarter, two thirds, most, least) relies on the accompanying show.

I don't have to see Nat King Cole in a shiny suit to enjoy "When I Fall In Love" over and over again, yet in the case of Rammstein, the only appeal is the show.


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

MacLeod, please start a Nat King Cole thread. I grew up listening to that particular King.


----------



## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Music can serve a lot of purposes. I'm mostly a serious music listener and so I prefer music with some depth to it. I don't mind some popular music in the background of a restaurant or store, but I rarely turn to pop for listening time. I can find pleasure in almost any music, except for rap and new country, as long as it is performed well. There's nothing quite as fun as Western Swing, Bluegrass, Big Band or Spanish guitar. I certainly would not choose to sit and listen to Taylor Swift or Miley Cyrus though. Just not my cup of tea. I certainly don't like to discourage music, unless it's really awful though, because when I was a child I thought as a child and enjoyed the things a child would enjoy. We had our popular music in the 60s and 70s when I was growing up and my early exposure to music, and my mother letting me explore various types of music, led me ultimately to classical and jazz as my preferred choice. I enjoyed the Beatles as much as anyone when I was younger but if I had a choice to listen to Sibelius or the Beatles then Sibelius would win. I find the Beatles pretty boring these days but when I was a kid I loved them.

Kevin


----------



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I admit I do tend to look down on much of the pop/rock music of _today_, but not at all on the "Broadway"/"classic American popular song" genres. As a matter of fact, this was my main musical interest before I encountered "classical," and I still love it.


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

Simon Moon said:


> Besides your post being the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam, the "or" in above quote from the National Recording Registry is very important.
> 
> It is quite possible that NRR considers Nevermind to be "culturally and historically important" without considering it "aesthetically important".


At least, Nevermind is considered by NRR as "culturally and historically important"...something that a LOT of classical recordings cannot claim:angel:


----------



## PolyphonicPlatypus (Dec 31, 2015)

I don't look down on it I suppose, I just really don't like it. Some of it I will admit is technically good music however I rarely (if at all) find anything that matches the emotional dynamics that classical music does.
I have little respect for those who make the more popular music of today, the themes of their music a pattern of "I love you" "I hate you" "I will be with you always" "I never want you see you again" "We are made for each other" "Time to just forget you" (all of which is usually presented in some way with at least undertones of sex, even if it is just the way they act in the music video), and not presented nearly as well as such themes (in much much much much smaller quantities) are presented in opera.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2015)

PolyphonicPlatypus said:


> I have little respect for those who make the more popular music of today, the themes of their music a pattern of "I love you" "I hate you" "I will be with you always" "I never want you see you again" "We are made for each other" "Time to just forget you" (all of which is usually presented in some way with at least undertones of sex, even if it is just the way they act in the music video), and not presented nearly as well as such themes (in much much much much smaller quantities) are presented in opera.


Isn't that what 'popular' music is supposed to be about? There's little written on the deep and meaningful that anyone would call 'popular'. I mean, Robert Wyatt singing Elvis Costello's _Shipbuilding _might count, and so might Trio's _Da Da Da,_ a parody of the love song that you have little respect for...but these are exceptions, unless you begin to broaden 'popular' to include all rock/alt/folk...?


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

O


PolyphonicPlatypus said:


> I have little respect for those who make the more popular music of today, the themes of their music a pattern of "I love you" "I hate you" "I will be with you always" "I never want you see you again" "We are made for each other" "Time to just forget you"


Sinatra? Streisand?


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

In the 80's :

Music Snob : I really *hate pop music*. I cannot stand Madonna and Prince and U2 and Phil Collins.
They dont have the pipes and just depends on their producers for their music.

Scribe: That's sad. By the way, what type of music do you listen to?

Music Snob : I *love the Beatles, the Beach Boys* and of course, Elvis.

In 2015:

Music Snob : I really *hate pop music*. I cannot stand Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus and One Direction.
They dont have the pipes and just depends on their producers for their music.

Scribe : That's sad. By the way, what type of music do you listen to?

Music Snob : I *love Prince and U2*

In 2050 : ? :angel:


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Not really. I liked even early Britney Spears, but his late works are blight!

Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus ... the first is a ruiner of three genres. The next two are simply abominations + Nicki Minaj and singers like her.

Currently from new pop music I listen to some old country gals and dudes plus eh not much even 90s RnB is dead and I don't like this Hip-Hop tendency in current RnB.

A few good Pop singers emerges once in a while but they don't have much memorable songs too.

Really if you want some good pop music (excluding country which I written somewhere else) listen to these:

Elvis
Carly Simon
Alphaville
Celine Dion
Adele
Whitney Houston
Katie Melua
Nancy Sinatra
Frank Sinatra
Bing Crosby
Ace of Base
Stevie Wonder
Abba
Chris De Burgh
Eva Cassidy
Mariah Carrey (90s works)
Ella Fitzgerald
Frank Ifield (UK pop legend before the beetles)
Kay Starr
Nancy Wilson
Nat King Cole
Pat Boone
Patti Page
Dinah Shore
...


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

Arsakes said:


> Not really. I liked even early Britney Spears, but his late works are blight!
> 
> Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus ... the first is a ruiner of three genres. The next two are simply abominations + Nicki Minaj and singers like her.
> 
> ...


Interesting because I think the first 2 albums of Britney Spears are too bubblegum but her latter albums ( especially Blackout and Circus ) are really good pop music.

As for Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber, I can guarantee you that 50 years from now, people will still be singing "Love Story" and "Blank Space" and "Sorry" and "What Do You Mean/" in the same manner that people now are still singing "Dreamlover" and "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" and "Its All Coming Back To Me Now":angel:


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

One thing I find strange is when you see Coldplay playing a festival gig the massed 20-somethings at the front are all singing along yet all the under-30s I know dismiss them as being one of the most boring and uncool bands on the planet and wouldn't be seen dead listening to them. What gives?


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> One thing I find strange is when you see Coldplay playing a festival gig the massed 20-somethings at the front are all singing along yet all the under-30s I know dismiss them as being one of the most boring and uncool bands on the planet and wouldn't be seen dead listening to them. What gives?


Maybe because some Coldplay songs are overplayed by radio :angel:


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Iean said:


> Maybe because some Coldplay songs are overplayed by radio :angel:


Weird--people under 30 still listen to radio?


----------



## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> Weird--people under 30 still listen to radio?


i guess so..a friend of mine who works in an advertising firm told me that radio stations still get lots of money from leading brands:angel:


----------



## andrewsmolich1 (Jan 14, 2016)

To each their own


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> One thing I find strange is when you see Coldplay playing a festival gig the massed 20-somethings at the front are all singing along yet all the under-30s I know dismiss them as being one of the most boring and uncool bands on the planet and wouldn't be seen dead listening to them. What gives?


This is classic! An example of the power of peer consensus at work within a defined group of people known to one another. It cannot be cool to like Coldplay among people you know, but in the anonymity of the festival/concert mass, the inner devotee can be exposed and can revel in its ecstasy. The preceding statement is neither an endorsement nor a repudiation of Coldplay


----------



## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

It all entertainment...no one has the right to patronise a music form just because they dont like it. If it entertains and sells its legitimate. Of course I wouldn't be seen dead with a Miley Cyrus or Taylor Swift cd, I dont imagine they would go much for Sibelius or Richard Strauss either.


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I recall that one day I was at the pharmacy looking for some allergy medication when I noticed the following on the loudspeakers:

Caroline!(Caroline!) Caroline!
All the guys would say she's mighty fine(Mighty fine!)
But mighty fine only got you somewhere half the time
And the other half either got you cussed out, or coming up short.
Yeah, now dig this, even though(Even though!)
You'd need a golden calculator to divide(To divide!)
The time it took to look inside and realize that
Real guys go for real down to Mars girls, yeah!

I know you'd like to think your **** don't stink
But lean a little bit closer
See that roses really smell like poo-poo-oo
Yeah, roses really smell like poo-poo-oo

I know you'd like to think your **** don't stink
But lean a little bit closer
See that roses really smell like poo-poo-oo
Yeah, roses really smell like poo-poo-oo






And then I thought to myself: you know, maybe it _is_ ok to prefer Romantic lieder.


----------



## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> I recall that one day I was at the pharmacy looking for some allergy medication when I noticed the following on the loudspeakers:
> 
> Caroline!(Caroline!) Caroline!
> All the guys would say she's mighty fine(Mighty fine!)
> ...


Return of the gangsta, thanks ta'
Them ****** that think you soft
And say y'all be gospel rappin'
But they be steady clappin' when you talk about
Bitches, and switches, and hoes, and clothes, and weed
Let's talk about time travelin', rhyme javelin
Somethin' mind unravelin', get down


----------



## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> I recall that one day I was at the pharmacy looking for some allergy medication when I noticed the following on the loudspeakers:
> 
> Caroline!(Caroline!) Caroline!
> All the guys would say she's mighty fine(Mighty fine!)
> ...


BTW, it'd be nice to actually sit down and compare high quality rap with lieder. I bet some would be in for a surprise.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

"Popular music" is such a broad term. I look down on most of the "Top 40 (s)hits" out there these days. But there is some pop music I can appreciate to some degree or another. I voted yes.


----------



## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

mmsbls said:


> *I would be shocked if anyone on TC has brought as much joy and happiness to humanity as either Cyrus or Swift.* In fact I think it's quite possible that each has brought more happiness to others than the entire TC membership combined. I don't listen to either of them, and the little I've seen of Cyrus's behavior makes me uncomfortable. Still I would be thrilled beyond belief if I could give even a modest number of people the joy that her work routinely does.


Yet, how many of us know who each other are?


----------



## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> I recall that one day I was at the pharmacy looking for some allergy medication when I noticed the following on the loudspeakers:
> 
> Caroline!(Caroline!) Caroline!
> All the guys would say she's mighty fine(Mighty fine!)
> ...


This makes me think of those crazy, repulsive songs Mozart loved to write for fun. They were explicit and nasty - I think there was a thread on them once.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't try to find out. It's scarring...


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Lucifer Saudade said:


> Return of the gangsta, thanks ta'
> Them ****** that think you soft
> And say y'all be gospel rappin'
> But they be steady clappin' when you talk about
> ...


That is a good song.


----------



## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I have no problems with whatever music genre people have chosen to listen to. What I loathe is when I am listening to something in my car (with my windows up) and some cretin pulls up next to me with his radio blaring 'his' or 'her' music so loud that I can't even hear mine. 

All I ask is respect - I don't blast people's doors off with my classical music and I expect the same respect from others.


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Most of it today, yes.
Not years ago .


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

mstar said:


> This makes me think of those crazy, repulsive songs Mozart loved to write for fun. They were explicit and nasty - I think there was a thread on them once.
> 
> If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't try to find out. It's scarring...


Oh, I know what you're talking about. My main complaint with the Outkast song, though, is that it's so ****ed catchy. Once you've heard it, just try to get that "Yeah, roses really smell like poo-poo-oo" out of your head :lol:


----------



## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

I used to, but then I listened to the Beatles and immediately forgot my snobbish ways.


----------

