# What is the best way to introduce classical music to a baby?



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

As you guys know I have a baby daughter who isn't quite 2 yet and I want to introduce her to more classical music. What do people think about the Baby Einstein series like Baby Beethoven for introducing her?

Also would full blown recordings work well too? I'm all ready to throw on the Trevor Pinnock if needs be.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

When I was a kid, I loved listening to the Fantasia soundtrack, Handel's Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks, and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker (all on LPs, of course).


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

I loved Peter and the Wolf when I was a kid.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Baroque music? What is wrong with the baby? You don't *start* with baroque. Ever. [_Great _baby, though.]

How about some Beethoven's Third Symphony mixed with Mahler' Third symphony. Top if off with Prokofiev's Concerto for Piano for Left hand. The next day, Havergal's Gothic symphony. Proceeding to your Mozart's 25th and 41st symphony and the evergreen 21st piano concertos.

On a particularly busy day: Load up the nine symphonies of Beethoven in an alternating pattern. 
Example: 1st: Period performance; 2nd: Period adherences with modern orchestra 3rd: Full blown modern (Karajan's 1983 recording with the Berliner Philharmoniker *recommended!*).... et cetera

When your baby's done being blown away:
1. Mahler's second symphony [Do *not *turn up the volume at the thrilling climax. Its a baby!]
2. Bruckner's Ninth Symphony [*Not* the completion.]3. Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 21
4. Beethoven's Grobe Fugue
5. Schubert's Ninth symphony
6. Mozart's last three piano sonatas
7. When you are away at work and don't want to pay the nanny's fee: The entire WTC played by Richter [The baby will be to spellbound to move. If she does, traps are your friend. Not the mouse one. She's a *baby*!]
8. Italian and Fantasia concertos played on the piano
9. Schubert's Eight symphony under Claudio Abbado and Chamber Orchestra of Europe
10. Dvorak's 9th symphony under the incomparable Celibidache. YouTube has the entire performance.
11. Karajan's performance of Bruckner's Eight [70s' performance]
12. When you really busy and unsure of your return: Assemble your favorite takes of *Rubinstein's *Chopin from *The Rubinstein Collection *and play them on {loop*infinity}. The baby will grow into a virtuoso pianist just from the sheer joy of hearing Rubinstein and Chopin and the scar of her father abandoning her. [Who abandons a *baby*? Shame on you!]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is my beginner's guide [Not age-appropriate for a baby]:

Listen to all works you encounter for the rest of your life with patience. You may not grasp them quickly. The structure may strike you as odd or the works may outright baffle you. I cannot recommend any specific works because people have _very_ different tastes; some people look for structural coherence, some look for no structure - chaotic beauty, some look for programmatic music while some simply listen and absorb the notes. [Some do actually - programmatic music as mentioned earlier - but *quite* *a **few* don't. Despite the absence of a concrete programme, people interpret these works. Music is art, and art can be interpreted in several ways. Mona Lisa is a meaningless piece of art for some while some find immortal beauty in it.]

In the end, you will have to experiment with several works and see for yourself which work. Pre-medieval, medieval, baroque, classical, romantic, post-romantic, neo-classical, neo-baroque, 20th century or 21st century.

If you watch the works, rather than listening to them, you will understand and appreciate _much _more.

Start with these symphonies: 
Beethoven 
[Begin with #5, #3 and #9 specifically and then gradually listen to the rest]:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKvR3uyS5pUqvJ_wmrhwlYoBCeu-DXmTE 
[These performances attempt to mimic the playing conditions of Beethoven's time, for historical accuracy. This style may suit you or revulse you. It cannot be argued, however, that there is much greater clarity to be found.]





[Modern orchestra with large forces, more approachable for those who want his works to have a bigger sound.]

His best known work: Symphony No. #9, Op. 125: [Recommended]*





Schubert:
#8 - 



#9 - 




Mozart:
#25:
Modern orchestra with large forces: 



Period orchestra with small forces: 




#40:
Reduced/modern orchestra with modern instruments: 



Modern orchestra with large forces: 



 and 




#41:
Modern orchestra with large forces - 



Period instruments with small forces: 




Haydn:
#90 - 104:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoqv4LKXugszAY3KJdNTFxTZaquSLWShm

[They contain all 104 of his symphonies; listen to the last 14.]

Mahler [Higher level of concentration and patience required; repeated listening and unwavering attention. Recommended listening is after listening to all of the compositions given above and having at least a rudimentary understanding of the way these works flow. If possible, hear the above works repeatedly before hearing the ones given below.]

Listen in the order given below:
#5: 



#1: 



****#2: 



***#4: 



#6: 



**#3: 



#9: 



#7: 




The Seventh can be particularly daunting and require the utmost effort along with multiple listenings but the rewards that it reaps are also unquestionable. Avoid the Eight since it is a large choral work and it is the least likely to be loved. It has its fair share of detractors, an oddity in the cycle actually.

_____________________________________________________________

Text translations:

Beethoven:
*#9: http://edboyden.org/beet9.html

Mahler:
****#2: http://gustavmahler.com/symphonies/mahler-symphony-2.html
**#3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._3_(Mahler)#Text
***#4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._4_(Mahler)#Fourth_movement_text


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks for the recommendations. Keep them going for sure. My daughter will be happy .


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2015)

You play classical music yourself, right?

You and your daughter live in the same house, right?

Your daughter will grow and develop her own musical tastes no matter what you do.

Play music. Enjoy it. The end.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

some guy said:


> You play classical music yourself, right?
> 
> You and your daughter live in the same house, right?
> 
> ...


 I would love to do that if I could afford a piano . electronic keyboards aren't the same to me.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> What is the best way to introduce classical music to a baby?


Easy. Lay the kid on the strings of a Steinway grand, and play the Hammerklavier Sonata. Believe me, the kid will love it! She'll think its one of those new noisy bouncy toys. (I know. I have a new grandson. And he loves his bouncy toys. I haven't yet tried him on the piano with the Hammerklavier playing. But I suspect he'd love that, too.)


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Beethoven's Grosse Fugue for baby? :lol: 

I rarely agree with "someguy" but here he's absolutely on the mark. Listen to the music you like at home. Your child will hear it. Some he/she will like. Some he/she won't. Beyond that...? Expose him/her to films/videos that employ classical music: Fantasia, Peter and the Wolf, etc... Take him/her to the orchestra or other events where he/she may be exposed to live performances of music.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2015)

Easy - just have it playing. That is what put the initial sparks of interest in me - my dad played classical music - at the time on the record player. Kids are also great visual learners. I don't know about the Baby Einstein videos, but definitely use Fantasia and Fantasia 2000. My kids love them! Then, if they show any interest at all in any particular piece, expand on that. My son got a CD from the library one time - I think it was a Sesame Street classical album. Elmo heard a classical music piece that he liked, and through the help of "Leonard Birdseed," they listened to excerpts of various pieces, with Elmo explaining how the piece was similar to what he had heard, until they finally found the one he liked. My son loved it. And so I would also play pieces that he had heard and liked. Then, of course, I showed them the great Bugs Bunny cartoons that incorporated opera, from Wagner and from the Barber of Seville, on YouTube. Make it fun.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

My response to this would be roughly the same to the thread about "does your pet like Classical music?"

In a few years, try piano lessons. If the pet takes to it, then have the child learn as well.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> My response to this would be roughly the same to the thread about "does your pet like Classical music?"
> 
> In a few years, try piano lessons. If the pet takes to it, then have the child learn as well.


I tried giving my dog piano lessons once. It was definitely a case of his Bach being worse than his bite.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

GGluek said:


> I tried giving my dog piano lessons once. It was definitely a case of his Bach being worse than his bite.


Painful.

I think you just had the wrong animal though. Every Byrd on my Bloch loves classical music. Ives often seen them Haydn in a little Cage, Hummel along to the music....


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I think that the pet thread isn't applicable here honestly. Pets can't comprehend music and babies can.


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## michaels (Oct 3, 2014)

My mom introduced me in an "active" way to classical music (as my earlier recollection of music at all) by making it an activity. Here's a few I remember:

1. Play a piece with a lot of dynamic range and have her dance (along with you of course!) For some kids, recording them dancing to music and playing it back is a great way to experience the music. (Bolero, Swan Lake)

2. If she's drawing with crayons yet, have her sit down and "draw the colors you hear"

3. Identify orchestral music in the background of what she likes to watch, try to get that music and play act out what she watches to the music. At 2, she'll likely need to be shown and encouraged.

4. Have instruments around that are kid friendly to touch and to play with, and encourage her to play with them. At 5, I got my older daughter a Uke because she liked to see me play my guitar and mandolin. 

Of course the more you can interact with her and both making music and being more aware of the presence of music in the other things she loves, the better!


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

I agree with "just play and enjoy music together." That's what I did with my children, and not just classical; there are also all kinds of other music babies and children can enjoy. You also need to stay out of their minds while being supportive.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I have no idea but tell me when you find out what works! When I eventually have a kid, I'd also like them to be interested in classical music. Maybe I'll just force them like Mozart's dad did...


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Dustin said:


> I have no idea but tell me when you find out what works! When I eventually have a kid, I'd also like them to be interested in classical music. Maybe I'll just force them like Mozart's dad did...


Or send them to some kind of Kodály classes when they're a bit older.

Worked for me me, although I was in my twenties before I realised that a) that word isn't spelled "ka-die" and b) Koldály was an actual person, not just a made up word for those music classes that I went to when I was little.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

2, and any sort of frontal / confronted with "training," well, I'm agin it.

As Draconian as it sounds, home and parents are pretty much your daughter's near entire world, and her developing brain a veritable sponge.

If the music is in the house, if you listen to it as a matter of fact thing, if you _move with her to whatever is playing in any kind of movement as responding to the music_ (i.e. "unprogrammed Eurythmic training, lol") and maybe even hum or sing any part of the music, (not "just the melody / top" please you are demonically programming your daughter to like the experience of classical, orchestra, vocal, opera, cantata, chamber music, etc.

Of course, you are tuned in to your child, so can see that which better holds her interest, entertains her.

Please, pretty please, do not condescend to an intelligent but inarticulate two year old and _assume_ that only the simple, dancycatchytunes fare is 'all she can get.' HUGE MISTAKE! (Here, I am an opponent of all those "music for babies" programs. The fact they are pitched as "Music for baby Einsteins" is already a flagrant clue -- and repellent enough. I believe, near to calling it to a severe degree, that those are the antithetical approach you should take.)

I might hesitate a little to give her a straightforward dose of the second Viennese dodecaphonic school, where I would not hesitate to expose her, say, to Thomas Ades _In seven days,_ or Morton Feldman's _piano and string quartet_ along with any and all of the rest.

Whatever you can _appear_ to take pleasure in (even if that music is not to your taste!), and pull her in via that animation of movement with her, or letting the music play as background when the focus is more on straight play and other sorts of interactions with her, the more open she will be -- later -- to liking and consuming the stuff on her own, _that is if it ends up being to her taste at all._ (I.e. you are opening the door; later she may, or may not, still have interest in what was in that room.

I was taken to art museums, concerts, and productions of 'plays for adults' without being in any way told or given tacet signals re 'telling me what it is or how I should appreciate or understand it.' The atmosphere was one of "This was something enjoyed," period; the second part was being told if I liked it, more would be made available any time I liked. Well, that all worked


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Giordano said:


> I agree with "just play and enjoy music together." That's what I did with my children, and not just classical; there are also all kinds of other music babies and children can enjoy. *You also need to stay out of their minds while being supportive.*


^^^ BINGO! / Bravo! / and Thank You!


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

When my children were toddlers, they often had other kids come to our house for play dates. We would usually listen to whatever music I put on, which was geared toward their liking. One of the favorites, when they were in the mood, was the finale of Beethoven's 7th. Everyone, including me, danced to it like crazy -- laughter and giggles ensued, and we would be high for a while. 

Bach's Cello Suites was another favorite, but they didn't take to the Violin Sonatas & Partitas.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Giordano said:


> When my children were toddlers, they often had other kids come to our house for play dates. We would usually listen to whatever music I put on, which was geared toward their liking. One of the favorites, when they were in the mood, was the finale of Beethoven's 7th. Everyone, including me, danced to it like crazy -- laughter and giggles ensued, and we would be high for a while.
> 
> Bach's Cello Suites was another favorite, but they didn't take to the Violin Sonatas & Partitas.


That reaction to those sonatas & partitas may have been to the timbre and higher range of the violin itself. Sometimes a child may really not like strawberries because the texture bothers them, and so I think it may be with certain instruments, timbres, or just in the case of a fiddle, the general range of its higher pitch.

But try it all, Gamelan music, ethnic music from anywhere not the western cultures, the earliest medieval, Guillaume de Machaut, music from _all_ the eras including the modern and contemporary. You can usually tell right away if the child is captured by it, at least o.k. with it, or it doesn't register or repels... and then choose more accordingly.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

PetrB said:


> That reaction to those sonatas & partitas may have been to the timbre and higher range of the violin itself.


Probably.



PetrB said:


> ... try it all, ... You can usually tell right away if the child is captured by it, at least o.k. with it, or it doesn't register or repels... and then choose more accordingly.


Exactly!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Today I am at home all day with Izzy and she is sleeping on me and we are listening to iTunes Radio together.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> I would love to do that if I could afford a piano . electronic keyboards aren't the same to me.


I have to say, I think that's an unfortunate attitude to have. Digital pianos are terrific. I'll let the conservatory students comment on whether they hold up in the big leagues. For the rest of us, they are a great and relatively affordable option.

If it's a choice between digital piano or no piano, I think you have to go with digital.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Goo Goo Goo, Gaaaa.... Goo Goo Goo, Gaaaa....


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Beethoven's Grosse Fugue for baby? :lol:
> 
> I rarely agree with "someguy" but here he's absolutely on the mark. Listen to the music you like at home. Your child will hear it. Some he/she will like. Some he/she won't. Beyond that...? Expose him/her to films/videos that employ classical music: Fantasia, Peter and the Wolf, etc... Take him/her to the orchestra or other events where he/she may be exposed to live performances of music.


I don't _understand _GroBe Fugue. I love it for its sheer virtuosity and notes.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Having it on around the house without making a big deal out of it is about what you can do -- along with being engaged if she has questions, and finding "like" pieces to ones you find she actively enjoys. But understand that it's always a crapshoot. We always had music on -- and both kids decided on their own they wanted to take violin lessons. Now adults, the younger one enjoys opera; the older one has blown out his hearing attending Phish concerts. Good luck -- but temper your expectations. The influence of parents, though substantial, is limited.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> Today I am at home all day with Izzy and she is sleeping on me and we are listening to iTunes Radio together.


I want a picture so no matter what my mood or frame of mind, I will be forced into a smile and say "Awww."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> I would love to do that if I could afford a piano . electronic keyboards aren't the same to me.





GreenMamba said:


> I have to say, I think that's an unfortunate attitude to have. Digital pianos are terrific. I'll let the conservatory students comment on whether they hold up in the big leagues. For the rest of us, they are a great and relatively affordable option.
> If it's a choice between digital piano or no piano, I think you have to go with digital.


The virtual, I think, will never approach near enough to the real to be an actual substitute. I use one by circumstance, don't hate it, don't love it. I would never teach piano on one (though my clientele were all returning adult, no wee ones.) And if that is a must, after one year, if the beginner is going to continue, I advocate renting, or taking the full plunge.)

I work with a studio model, i.e. full fixed base with three pedals, 88 weighted touch-sensitive keys, etc. _Quite important, you do not want anything with but a few additional sounds, not a synth also, not a 'work station.'_ Any of those 'gig' keyboards on cross stands, etc. are not like sitting at a real piano, the pedal is a plug-in attachment that has to be secured to the floor or it will slide around, and if you're laying in to the keyboard to any degree while playing, the whole damn unit wobbles around. Verdict, "No Keyboards on stands, studio models with fixed base and three pedals only; less is a discardable toy.

More current models than mine have that much more replete, and much better, sound samples. They are a decent tool and nowhere near a decent in-shape older full upright grand piano -- the digital, btw, occupies the same footprint.

If you play, you should check out the newer models, and it still seems that for most who want 'classical' tone and touch, the higher end Yamaha digitals still come out on top. It is one way to go. Depending upon the market near you, and a good deal of luck, you may find a decent full acoustic upright piano (ca. 48" - 52" inches tall, with the lowest height the 'studio' upright ca 40" - 38" tall, after which you are buying a non-utilitarian headache.)

If you are shopping around second hand, or estate sales, it can be worth every penny to lay out $ and pay a certified piano technician to assess what state it is in before you drop more into it.

Sometimes perfectly good pianos are being given away in your area. You look at it, then pay to have it moved out and into your home (at which point you find the mover in your area who moves the most pianos on a regular basis. Other companies will give you a we don't like to do that but will if you're willing to pay us ridiculously well for the bother price.)
http://www.pianoadoption.com/

Several ways to go, the acoustic, natch, needing the not inexpensive tuning every now and then as well as some maintenance (rare if you got one in really good condition.)

Something to think about; of course I think its always nice to have a real piano around the house, but I would think that


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

PetrB said:


> I want a picture so no matter what my mood or frame of mind, I will be forced into a smile and say "Awww."


Here you go:


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