# Mahler No. 1 - Dudamel



## Burrish (Nov 24, 2009)

First off, I'd just like to say HI to everyone, as this is the first time I've ever posted on a Classical forum! I'm a musician (drummer...no jokes, please , and I just got through taking a Music Appreciation class in college. Among the assignments was to visit a local symphony, and, by random chance, I picked Mahler's First at the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. I can't begin to tell you all just how happy I am to have picked this piece! If you all are at all familiar with the DSO, you know that it's Jaap Van Zweden conducting. I'm 36, but, in all of my years listening to music, never *really* listened to Classical. In a way, I feel as if I'm turning a new musical page in life! Ok, enough of the drama. 

Anyway, the only real downside to my DSO visit was that I was completely unfamiliar with the piece. Though time stood still that night as I was listening, I wish I had some knowledge of the tune, so as to follow it. The next day, I got on youtube, and, when searching, ran into Gustavo Dudamel's interpretation with La Scala. Please recognize that I am Classical-ignorant, and am just trying to gain knowledge. Personally, I think Dudamel does a wonderful job. I've listened to other interpretations that are considered more traditional, and, while all excellent, I feel that the tempo adjustment during several sections of Gustavo's interpretation sounded very appropriate. This may be a silly question, but what is the general consensus on this forum in regards to Dudamel? I know that there are some who are opposed to a conductor being as animated as he is, but I don't think it detracts from the musicians at all. Actually, I think some of the musicians may feed off of it. He's clearly excited about what he's doing, and the music is clearly in his blood; that can't be taken away from him. I made a comment in regards to the middle of the third movement, which is absolutely gorgeous. (about six minutes in or so) There are *so* many parts of this symphony that get me; it's hard to point them all out. 

Anyway, is there an interpretation of Mahler's First that is preferred around here? Who else in the Romantic period (or otherwise) is like Mahler, if any? To what standards for Classical in general should I listen? (outside of Beethoven, which I've heard) Frankly, Mahler's First is by far my favorite Classical piece, thus far. 

Take Care!
Brandon


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

hi, brandon!  i urge you to sample mahler 2 very soon. i've had maleria for many years!

standard mahler conductors mentioned are usually, solti, bernstein, walter, klemperer...but the 'new' guys can do mahler well also - levine, rattle.
if you're looking for a cd of m1, my favorites are leinsdorf/boston and guilini/chicago. but i doubt you'll go wrong following your current interest in dudamel

conductors come in many styles, from the stern minimal gesturer to the hyper showman.
just so the musicians can follow the cues, all styles can work.
the dudamel material i've noticed are the youtube vids. i have purchased no recordings by him yet.

dj


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2009)

Mahler is great - I recommend sampling more of his symphonies, as well as his song cycles, and don't forget Das Lied von der Erde.

Regarding composers, there are so many, and no single one that is the best for each of the symphonies. In general, I enjoy Bernstein conducting Mahler, and he stands out on many of the recordings. I have Bernstein with the Royal Concertgebouw for Mahler's 1st and very much enjoy it.

Try Symphony No. 2 as well. Currently it is my favorite. An excellent recording is Klemperer's live recording with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.

As for other composers similar to Mahler, that is tough. Mahler was definitely very unique. However, in that same vein, I would definitely recommend both Bruckner and Richard Strauss. But in terms of Romantic symphonists, don't neglect Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, and Brahms.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Welcome, Brandon. Just thought I'd mention that our stories are similar: I too was a drummer who took a music appreciation class in college that sparked my interest in classical music.

Oh, and Mahler's 1st was one of my first symphonies as well. I will note that it's a bit different from his later symphonies, and that Mahler has been relegated to my "to do" list while I relish in other composers for the time being. But hey, the nice thing about music is no matter how late or early a start you get, there's enough out there to keep you happy till the end 

On topic:


Regarding Mahler interpretations, I recommend reading this thread.
As far as composers you will like if you like Mahler, this will be understandably general, but: Sibelius, Bruckner, Wagner, and Beethoven tend to be among the favorite composers of Mahlerites.
You didn't specifically request this, but here are some "places to go from here," listening-wise: Beethoven symphonies 3 and 9, Brahms symphony 4, Dvorak symphony 9, then perhaps Bruckner symphony 4 or 7 (but give Bruckner plenty of time to grow on you; he gets better once you adapt to his style).

After that, I would encourage you to sample the best works of other periods and genres to see if they appeal to you. Have fun!


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Mahler's 1st is a spectacular symphony, to be sure, but to hear some more solemn works, I would definitely recommend not only the second symphony (which I extremely highly recommend, mind you), but the third as well, especially the sixth (last) movement. Happy listening!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

You might be interested in this CD of Dudamel conducting Mahler's Fifth with the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Simó...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1259160852&sr=1-1


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## Symphonia (Jan 18, 2009)

Hello Brandon and welcome! 

Try Mahler's ninth for a truly moving experience. I have heard this one live on many occasions but my favourite performance has to be the one I attended at the Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatoire with Valery Gergiev at the helm of the Mariinsky Theatre Orchestra! A truly unforgettable evening!


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

Check out the first movement from his unfinished 10th, as well as his second symphony. Ditto the Sibelius recommendation, as well as the Rachmaninoff symphonies.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

My personal favourite Mahler 1 is by Simon Rattle/City of Birmingham SO (Live) on this recording:










I have often read of the Mahler 1 by Raphael Kubelik/Bavarian Radio SO as being a reference recording so you may want to check that one out:










As far as composers who are like Mahler you may want to investigate the symphonies of Bruckner (who influenced Mahler) and Shostakovich (who was influenced by Mahler) .


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## Burrish (Nov 24, 2009)

Thank you all for the responses! After the first response, I was going to reply, and then I no longer received notifications. As we speak, I'm listening to UC Davis perform Mahler's Second. I've listened to portions of the Second, Third, and Fifth. I will say this: None of them is much like the First. There are similar elements that are absolutely there, but it seems as though everything post-First is a much busier/more complicated work. It's *so* much to take in, and will take many more listens than the First (for me) to become acclimated. The second movement of the Second definitely has some dance elements of the First's second movement. (string plucking and similar progressions). I wasn't expecting the vocals, but these are nice! 

I picked up Dudamel's inaugural LA Philharmonic recording of the First, and I didn't like it anywhere near as much as his La Scala performance. The sound mix wasn't very rich, and I frankly like the zippier tempos from the latter. I wish I had a better grip on the musical terms used (rubato, etc) so I could point out parts in a proper fashion. 

Thanks for all of the recommendations! Based on what's been written here, and on the fact that I've known his name for years, I'm going to try a recording of the First from Bernstein. I will also check out the Rattle interpretation. Since the Fall Semester is over, I'm gonna have to have a Mahlerathon! It's taken several months for me to fully appreciate all that's happening in the First, and I imagine it will take longer for the rest of them. I must get started!!! 

I've also considered taking up the Violin or Cello since this has all happened. There's just *something* about the idea of playing this kind of music versus the music I've played with bands over the last twenty years. (not better or worse, just different)

By the way, something's on my mind that may be threadworthy in and of itself, but I've got to inquire about it since I've read responses on forums/etc. to interpretations. Here goes the most vague and involved of questions: What, to you, makes a good interpretation? I am, of course, using the First as my reference point since I'm not well-versed in Classical, but I'll assume answers will apply to all. 

Here's a slight problem (rhetorically stated) that I have with some feedback about certain interpretations: Does everyone expect the feel of a performance to stick *exactly* to what the composer wrote? That's the impression I'm getting. I appreciate the fact that people out there care enough about real music to break it down to individual nuance, but it can become a bit much at times. Being a musician, I know the question I just asked is subjectivity at its peak, but I still think it's fair. If all conductors stuck *exactly* to the score, wouldn't that *necessarily* make the difference in each interpretation come almost exclusively down to the musicianship of the orchestra? Is that the whole point? I would love to hear what users on this forum think about these questions. I'm *positive* that I'll become more critical of different interpretations once I've listened for several years. 

- Brandon


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## bongos (Nov 27, 2008)

hi All , Mahler Symphony 1 , Chicago Symphony orchestra ,Bernard Haitink will be playing online today Saturday at www.radionz.co.nz/concert .At 4.35 pm NZ time ,(in about 6.5 hours from the time of this post) Schumann Cello Concerto in A Minor /Heinrich Schiff/Berlin PO/ Haitink will be followed by the Mahler .Enjoy


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## Burrish (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for letting us know about this, bongos!


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## bongos (Nov 27, 2008)

its a pleasure , Burrish, get back to me and tell me if you enjoyed it .You may be interested that I am a new Mahler fan .After months of auditioning sound samples on Passionato and Amazon , I started buying Mahler symphonies 
Mahler 2 ...... Otto Klemperer /Philharmonia ....recorded in the Kingsway Hall,London 1962....CD 
Mahler 5 .......Rafael Kubelik/Bavarian Radio Symphony orchestra ..studio recording on Audite label....CD
Mahler 4 ......George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra ....24 bit /96 khz flac download bought online from High Definition Tape Transfers ( HDTT )
the HDTT download has a sensational sound quality that the commercial CDs cannot match, unfortunately the HDTT catalogue is limited to music that is out of copyright and in the public domain .


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## Burrish (Nov 24, 2009)

Ok, I just finished listening to Haitink's interpretation on the New Zealand live radio link. You all have no idea how frustrated I am about not yet knowing the correct terminology to use when discussing! Before I say anything specific, I think this needs to be stated: My maiden voyage into *really* listening to this piece was Dudamel's La Scala performance, which, by several accounts, is considered "too fast" in several sections. Actually, my *first* listen, as previously stated, was Van Zweden at the DSO, but I really don't remember what he did since I didn't know the piece. 

That said, I thought that the Chicago Symphony sounded wonderful. If there were mistakes, I didn't hear them, and I was listening, intently. The biggest difference in Haitink and Dudamel's respective interpretations, for me, comes down to one primary characteristic: tempo. Because of the fact that I'm used to the La Scala performance, I was *expecting* several parts to liven up (respectfully said) in terms of tempo, so they ended up sounding a little restrained. I don't mean that towards the instruments, as they were all rich and full sounding. Haitink seemed much more consistent in sticking with a certain tempo, and he didn't extend many accents in this performance. Dudamel exaggerates the beginning of the second movement, which I personally love. I think it's very appropriate, and helps in really setting off said movement. That said, I don't like how he handled the intro to the second movement in the LA Phil inaugural performance. (he extended a few more notes at the beginning, which, in my opinion, didn't work). Haitink's second movement was more straightforward, and I still really liked it. My primary tempo issues were with the first and fourth movements with Haitink. (the outro in the fourth comes to mind). Of course, I'm not saying that I disliked them; I just personally prefer things sped up a bit. Interestingly enough, the whole intro of the first movement *gets* to the livelier parts quicker than Dudamel. 

Perhaps I can put it this way (hopefully without losing any credibility, not that I've earned any): Haitink's interpretation was very *perfect* sounding, while Dudamel's seemed a bit more dramatic/adventurous. Personally, at the risk of sounding ridiculous, I prefer the latter. I truly hope I'm not being disrespectful to a well-respected composer by saying that. Again, I think the fact that I got *used* to this symphony at a faster tempo is playing into this, but, that said, I still like it that way. I'm going to start listening to more of the First by other composers so that I can get used to the slower tempos. I listened to Rattle's Second earlier today, and that's great stuff! I can't wait to get used to that piece! 

Cheers, 
Brandon


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## bongos (Nov 27, 2008)

hi Burrish ,I enjoyed the Mahler 1 on Radio NZ with Chicago SO/Haitink but his reading is somewhat bland .The sound is good and the orchestra plays beautifully , as you say .Keep in mind that Bernard Haitink is now in his high 80's in years .I much prefer the Mahler 1 by Chicago Symphony Orchestra with Pierre Boulez holding the baton ( on DG )
Of the Mahler 1 that I have heard I like Kubelik/Bavarian Radio SO ,on DG( studio) or Audite(live),......... I prefer the Audite a little , even if just for the sound 
Solti /London SO on Decca
Boulez /Chicago SO on DG 
Horenstein /London SO on Unicorn


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