# Short Harp Prelude



## eilrahc (Nov 15, 2013)

Hi all, I got around to finishing a small Harp Prelude recently and I'd appreciate hearing some thoughts. It's short but a lot of thought and energy went into it! Cheers. 


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https://soundcloud.com/cycheng%2Fharppreludesketch
 (MIDI mockup)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Your piece sets up a number of tensions, particularly the waves of activity and rest beginning at around 55 seconds or so, that I feel need to be followed through on. As it is, it feels like an interesting fragment, but I don't get the sense that it's a complete piece yet.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Some nice ideas, but I feel it lacks cohesion as a piece, there is a lot of material you could explore that just seems to be discarded for no good reason. Within the first 20 seconds there are three beginnings, and by the end I don't feel like any of them have been concluded. I would advise serious expansion.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I really like this!  I think if this is the entire piece, it works, but I feel like it could be expanded too. Perhaps even make it part of a set of miniatures. My one thing is that this sounds impossible to play on a concert harp. If you're aware of that (or maybe I'm wrong and you know the instrument better than I) thats cool, I mean you don't have to write for a real musician, especially when the harp samples sound so nice  But yeah, this piece is pretty groovy, what methods did you use to compose it?~


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## eilrahc (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks for listening, I am suspicious of those remarks as well. 

For what it's worth, I see the beginning as just an introductory gesture that needed to be stated once, although a small germ comes back later. Overall, I wasn't aiming for an active 'linear' sense of motivic development and conclusion- more like attempting to weave different episodes of different 'shadings' together. I'd like to think there is an even flow of tension and release (and direction) despite the heterogeneity of the ideas but perhaps this isn't coming across as well as I would like.


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## eilrahc (Nov 15, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> I really like this!  I think if this is the entire piece, it works, but I feel like it could be expanded too. Perhaps even make it part of a set of miniatures. My one thing is that this sounds impossible to play on a concert harp. If you're aware of that (or maybe I'm wrong and you know the instrument better than I) thats cool, I mean you don't have to write for a real musician, especially when the harp samples sound so nice  But yeah, this piece is pretty groovy, what methods did you use to compose it?~


Thank you for the kind words 

I am actually not sure about the playability of this piece, perhaps I am being rather decadent with my usage of samples! Reducing it down will have to be a future lesson when I actually have a Harpist to work with..

As for composing, it was done straight into a Cubase sequencer by hand. I prefer the flexibility of working with raw MIDI over notation programs. Now comes the task to notate it..


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

eilrahc said:


> Thanks for listening, I am suspicious of those remarks as well.
> 
> For what it's worth, I see the beginning as just an introductory gesture that needed to be stated once, although a small germ comes back later. Overall, I wasn't aiming for an active 'linear' sense of motivic development and conclusion- more like attempting to weave different episodes of different 'shadings' together. I'd like to think there is an even flow of tension and release (and direction) despite the heterogeneity of the ideas but perhaps this isn't coming across as well as I would like.


Yes, I understand what you are trying to do, but for me it just doesn't come off. I will say that I'm glad you're sticking to your guns; even though I didn't like your piece, it's good to me that you have the confidence to stand up for it. I also like what you say about MIDI in your response to BD, I think you and I are the only people around here who compose that way.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

eilrahc said:


> Thank you for the kind words
> 
> I am actually not sure about the playability of this piece, perhaps I am being rather decadent with my usage of samples! Reducing it down will have to be a future lesson when I actually have a Harpist to work with..
> 
> As for composing, it was done straight into a Cubase sequencer by hand. I prefer the flexibility of working with raw MIDI over notation programs. Now comes the task to notate it..


yeah the thing with harps is that for the most part they aren't... totally chromatic in the normal sense. They're capable of being able to play all 12 standard pitches, but at any time they're only capable of playing the pitches set up with the array of pedals. I believe your piece may be impossible because parts would involve sudden pedal changes that aren't really practical, and other parts have so many different pitches ringing at once that I don't think is possible either. Now, if you were to notate it for a couple harpists it might work :3 it would just be bitchin hard to play XD


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

This is a collection of Inuit Throat and Harp songs. I found them interesting and they may inspire you.

https://archive.org/details/agp178


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

eilrahc said:


> Thank you for the kind words
> 
> I am actually not sure about the playability of this piece, perhaps I am being rather decadent with my usage of samples! Reducing it down will have to be a future lesson when I actually have a Harpist to work with..
> 
> As for composing, it was done straight into a Cubase sequencer by hand. I prefer the flexibility of working with raw MIDI over notation programs. Now comes the task to notate it..


The concert harp is one of _the_ most difficult to write for because of its severe harmonic limits. The pedals allow for a lot of changes, semi-chromatic sounding writing, but you are then asking of the player to be as much a quick pedal change virtuoso as well as a player.

Apart from my perception of this stream of several minutes sounding like dozens of short sketches patched together (you did, fair enough, call it a sketch) is that many parts of that sound like they would be near impossible to play on a real concert harp.

Even expert composers who write harp parts of any complexity usually consult with a competent player: very few composers know the instrument well enough to compose for it without consulting with a player.


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## eilrahc (Nov 15, 2013)

PetrB said:


> The concert harp is one of _the_ most difficult to write for because of its severe harmonic limits. The pedals allow for a lot of changes, semi-chromatic sounding writing, but you are then asking of the player to be as much a quick pedal change virtuoso as well as a player.
> 
> Apart from my perception of this stream of several minutes sounding like dozens of short sketches patched together (you did, fair enough, call it a sketch) is that many parts of that sound like they would be near impossible to play on a real concert harp.
> 
> Even expert composers who write harp parts of any complexity usually consult with a competent player: very few composers know the instrument well enough to compose for it without consulting with a player.


Fair enough. However at this point I think I'm more curious as to how the sketch stands as a piece of music. Do you mind elaborating your thoughts? Ie: do you sense a lack of convincing continuity between the different ideas?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

eilrahc said:


> Fair enough. However at this point I think I'm more curious as to how the sketch stands as a piece of music. Do you mind elaborating your thoughts? Ie: do you sense a lack of convincing continuity between the different ideas?


I hear five seconds of this, five seconds of that, five seconds of, all the way through. It sounds like a patched together sequence of _non-related/I] material, i.e. non-related either by contrast or similarity.

It sounded arbitrary (in a more pejorative sense of the word), i.e. noodling around and about.

I have no problem of using midi to make things which are not possible on the acoustic instrument, especially here it is as if there is of a sudden a fully chromatic harp.

I don't hear anything like 'a piece' here, but rather something which is now endemic, "have midi, will noodle." Many are posting these essays, simply because they are so easily made, and I think without much sense of whether or not it is 'a piece,' or thought to whether others would find it interesting as music.

ADD; the 'general sounds you did make' here are all of a similar sort as to harmony and gesture. I.e. while you are "all over the map," you stayed within the boundaries of one country, so to speak _


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

I agree that the piece is not well structured, but I like the way it sounds.


Best regards, Dr


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## eilrahc (Nov 15, 2013)

Hi all, I've considered all the helpful critiques given and I did some adjustments to the piece. I mostly expanded some motivic phrases to help the sections breath better. It's finally time I moved on from this! Feel free to chime in if you have something to add


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https://soundcloud.com/cycheng%2Fharp-prelude-sketch-2nd-edit


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Heh I still think its beautiful music, in the old form or this new one. I honestly don't get what everybody else's problem with the music is. The effect is comparable with Webern, Boulez and Carter.


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