# Neo-Baroque Composers?



## neoshredder

Are there any composers in the last 100 years influenced heavily by Baroque and used some of their ideas in more of a modern sense?


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## jalex




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## Ukko

This topic has a prior thread devoted to it... somewhere.


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## Manxfeeder

I remember a neo-Renaissance topic.

As far as reviving the concerto grosso, I'm thinking offhand of Hindemith's Concerto for Orchestra and Bloch's Concerto Grosso Nos. 1 and 2. Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra has Baroque tendencies (fugues, concerto grosso passages, a perpetulum mobile ending).

Wikipedia lists some Neo-Baroque composers, none of whom I am familiar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Baroque_music


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## violadude

Hindemith was very inspired by baroque era music.


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## itywltmt

Stravinsky's _Pulcinella _is a re adaptation of _Pergolesi's _music.

How about Villa Lobos' Bachianas Brasileiras?

Or Andre Gagnon's _Turluteries _and _Mes Quatre Saisons_?


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## neoshredder

Yeah I think this would be a good way to find new composers I like. Maybe it could lead to a new direction of fusion between modern classical and baroque. I know it wouldn't be easy to put together. Anyways thanks for the suggestions. I'm off to look up those composers listed.


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## tdc

I tend to really enjoy neo-baroque pieces as well. Bartok's Dance Suite and Divertimento for Strings are two great works that have neo-baroque elements, composer Roberto Sierra has also composed some enjoyable works in this style.


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## LordBlackudder




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## Sid James

Not necessarily neo-Baroque, but these guys did draw on things like more traditional counterpoint, mixing them into their modern styles -

*ALan Hovhaness* - Actually said two of his favourite composers were J.S. Bach & Handel. There are many fugal/contrapuntal passages in his pieces. You will recognise the likes of Bach at many points, but with a strongly modern twist.

*Charles Ives *- More experimental than Hovhaness, but also an admirer of the wigs (except Mozart, who he found effete, but that's another issue). So there's quite a bit of counterpoint in Ives' music, eg. his symphonies inevitably tend to have fugues or fugal bits. His _Three Page Sonata_ for piano quotes the well worn B-A-C-H musical motto, hammered out very forcefully towards the end.

*Michael Tippett* was hugely into counterpoint. But in him you kind of go back to Bach via Beethoven, the latter being Tippett's compositional hero. Tippett's _String Quatet #3_, for example, has no less than three fugues, but it took me a while to notice and "hear" them, he was no carbon copy of the wigs.

A more recent one is* Jonathan Dove*, his _Köthener Messe_ was directly influenced (he said) by J.S. Bach. Bits are on youtube, HERE is the _Kyrie_.

I agree with the above mentions of Hindemith, Bartok, Villa-Lobos, Stravinsky, who were big movers and shakers in the broad "back to Bach" movement between the wars...


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## Guest

Depends on what you mean by "baroque," I guess.

The practice of improvisors today is possibly closer to what baroque musicians did. But very far from what people are used to hearing today's baroque performers perform.

Here's an interesting comment by Lionel Salter: "[P]eople who try and play ... let's say Handel sonatas, strictly according to the text, end up with something at which Handel would probably have laughed uproariously.... In those days, composers expected to perform their own works and sometimes out of sheer lack of time they wouldn't write everything down on paper, they'd just put a thing down to remind themselves that here they were going to do something rather special."


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## neoshredder

Found a video on youtube of neo-baroque.


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## violadude

neoshredder said:


> Found a video on youtube of neo-baroque.


Hmm not sure if that would be considered neo-baroque or just a piece in a baroque style written in the 20th century....

Whatever it is called, the voice leading wasn't very good.


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## neoshredder

Well I'll take either Baroque in the 20th/21st century or neo-baroque. And I'm no expert in voice leading. I'll assume you are right on that. Sounds ok to me but nothing spectacular. Just good that someone is trying to create something new in baroque style. I want to like new music. Finding composers that share that interest would be a good idea imo.


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## neoshredder

Interesting sound here.


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## violadude

neoshredder said:


> Interesting sound here.


Now this one, on the other hand, is pretty damn awesome.


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## clavichorder

I think you should look into this: Ernest Bloch wrote Concerto Grossi, some of the most Baroque informed 20th century music I've ever heard, yet of high original artistic quality. I don't have speakers at the moment, so I don't know exactly what video I'm having you sample, but I'm hoping its going to be representative






And there also seems to be a bit of a concerto grosso renaissance with some 20th century composers. Look for 20th century Concerto Grossi.

I also just realized that a composer I'm getting into, Boslavu Martinu, wrote Concerto Grossi! He was a Czech composer, very tonal and very interesting. So Bloch, Martinu I think are pretty good.

Also, see this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto_grosso, and look at the 20th century composers on the bottom. I can imagine that Stravinsky, Vaughan Williams, and Villas-Lobos are also in the vein of what you are looking for.


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## clavichorder

Also, I think that Stravinsky and Hindemith, though more "neo classical" have a lot of baroque informed things going on in many of their pieces. Some composers like William Schuman, really likes his Passacaglia's and Fugues but he sounds more romantic-modern.

Also, if you have never heard Prokofiev's 1st symphony, it has a lot of funny neo classical things going on in it, not quite what you are looking for, but its still gold.


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## Lukecash12

Alfredo Casella is worth looking up, I would say. He did a variety of things, including the neo-baroque. Also, he made transcriptions of and edited baroque music.


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## Norse

Shostakovich: 24 Preludes and Fugues, Op 87


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## neoshredder

I'm adding all these suggestions to the tags "neo-baroque classical" and "neo-baroque" on last.fm. Any other suggestions? neo-baroque classical will obviously be neo-baroque that isn't pop, electronic, and etc.


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## StlukesguildOhio

You might want to consider Keith Jarrett. Jarrett is generally categorized under "jazz" but he has recorded a good amount of classical music including Shostakovitch' Preludes and Fugues and Bach's WTC, Goldberg Variations, etc... Jarrett embraced the Baroque tradition of improvisation and recognized its similarity to improvisation in jazz. Arguably, his strongest efforts have been his live improvisational performances some of which have distinct Baroque elements:


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## hespdelk

Schnittke had an interest in this, though he approached it through his concept of polystylism. He wrote a series of concerti grossi that adhere and diverge from strict baroque style in varying degress that for the most part are very interesting, and in my opinion quite enjoyable. 

He also composed a "suite in the olden style" (unsure as to the precise title right now...) for violin and piano where he indulges his love the style undiluted. Its really quite lovely.


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## violadude

clavichorder said:


> I think you should look into this: Ernest Bloch wrote Concerto Grossi, some of the most Baroque informed 20th century music I've ever heard, yet of high original artistic quality. I don't have speakers at the moment, so I don't know exactly what video I'm having you sample, but I'm hoping its going to be representative


Oh I played that one!...and I conducted parts of it.


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## violadude

hespdelk said:


> Schnittke had an interest in this, though he approached it through his concept of polystylism. He wrote a series of concerti grossi that adhere and diverge from strict baroque style in varying degress that for the most part are very interesting, and in my opinion quite enjoyable.
> 
> He also composed a "suite in the olden style" (unsure as to the precise title right now...) for violin and piano where he indulges his love the style undiluted. Its really quite lovely.


I have his 2nd and 6th concerto grosso. It's hard to explain, but there were many parts of the 6th concerto grosso that I found to have a very logical progression of notes, like Bach, but in a modern harmonic language, especially in the 1st movement.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Ellen Taaffe Zwilich: Concerto Grosso


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Martinu, _Concerto Grosso_


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## presto

Very surprise Respighi hasn’t been mentioned.
There’s the Ancient airs and dances suites, the birds suite and homage’s the many baroque forms littered throughout his output.


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## Argus

Michael Nyman's music for The Draughtsman's Contract.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Argus said:


> Michael Nyman's music for The Draughtsman's Contract.


I was watching a performance of "Chasing Sheep is Best Left to Shepherds" on YouTube earlier today.


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## neoshredder

So off all the composers mentioned, who you think is the leader in the neo-baroque movement?


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## Lukecash12

neoshredder said:


> So off all the composers mentioned, who you think is the leader in the neo-baroque movement?


Pretty informal group, so I don't think anyone is considered leader, per se.


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## neoshredder

I'm guessing Bloch is the leader then even though it is no clear leader as there was no considerable movement but rather the natural influences these composers grew up with.


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## Norse

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk of a particular neo-baroque movement as opposed to the general neo-classical movement which had its heyday in the inter-war years. The 'classicism' here, IMO, refers just as much to a general anti-romanticism, and when there's clear historical inspiration, they went just as much back to the Baroque as back to Viennese Classicism. Baroque dance forms, heavier focus on counterpoint etc. Often neo-classical works don't rely on very specific models, but pick and choose bits of historical style and technique freely and mix them with modern elements. I think there's a general agreement that Stravinsky is the 'leader' here. The first important neo-classical work (depending on how far you want to stretch the term in time and style) was his Wind Octet, and the inspiration was according to himself Bach's Inventions. On the German side, I guess Hindemith was the leader of the Neue Sachligkeit (New Objectivity is probably the best English translation, usually the German is used in English books). I don't know the whole of Hindemith's production very well, but it seems to me that neo-baroque is often more fitting than neo-classical. Also keep in mind that these composers' style change and evolve throughout their careers.


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## Lukecash12

Oh yes, I almost forgot Sorabji. Sorabji wrote prelude and fugue sets, wrote variations on works by Handel and Bach (as well as Couperin and various others), and wrote tons of other neo-baroque works.


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## PetrB

What you want to investigate is the 'neoclassical' style, generally agreed named as such with the introduction of Stravinsky's Pulcinella. Stravinsky continued in that vein until mid-century, capping it with his full-length opera, The Rake's Progress.
Other works by him, of many, in this vein are
Concerto in Eb, Dumbarton Oaks.
Concerto in D for string orchestra
Concerto in D for Violin and orchestra
Piano sonata
Serenade en La (piano)
Sonata for two pianos
Concerto per due piano soli
Duo Concertant, for violin and piano
Apollo for string orchestra
etc.

Just like so many other terms 'assigned' to style trends by critics, 'neoclassical' could have been much more accurately labeled 'Neobaroque' - because that is the period the majority of Stravinsky and others who took up the style primarily looked to as their model.

Bohislav Martinu is another, but also used renaissance forms at least as much as the baroque.

In their own manner, Darius Milhaud, Arthur Honegger, Frank Martin, Gerald Finzi, and many more all made their contributions.

If you look up 'neoclassical' in Wikipedia you will find an extensive list of those who wrote in the style, and you can begin to check them out from that list.

It is varied, and the composer's different approaches vary too.

I more than like a lot that was done by quite a few composers during that earlier era. Some later generation composers wrote in that vein too.

There is a delightful youthful piece by Luciano Berio which is both serial and neoclassical, his 'Concertino for Clarinet, violin,strings harp and celeste.


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## Sid James

One I got acquainted with recently. *Karl Jenkin's Palladio* for string orchestra, HERE in a version with harp. Kind of Baroque meets modern dynamics and a kind of rock beat. Commercial, yes, and very catchy and an earworm to boot, but it does kind of give me an emotional high & a big boost.


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## clavichorder

PetrB probably isn't going to like this, but Alan Hovhaness wrote a double fugue in Mysterious Mountain. Neoshredder, it'd be a curious experiment to see if you like Hovhaness, please indulge me, since I for some reason can't resist him at the moment.


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## neoshredder

Meh it's alright. I might need a few more listens. Edit. Sounds better the second time. Yeah that might be the new baroque right there.


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## clavichorder

neoshredder said:


> Meh it's alright. I might need a few more listens.


Lol. Just wondered.


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## ztar

neoshredder said:


> Are there any composers in the last 100 years influenced heavily by Baroque and used some of their ideas in more of a modern sense?


Yes. I am. And I do. I compose Neo-Baroque music and intertwine it with compositions by Bach, Vivaldi and Handel. I do this in a Crossover context and merge these with Modern and Authentic instrumentation samples ranging from Viols, Violins, Lutes, Harpsichord to electric bass and drums and electric guitar. You can see this with my composition "Lift Off" (based on Bach's Prelude No2 in C Minor) and my reworking of "Canon In D" (Pachelbel) where I've composed a new top line. Although I'm a virtuoso Guitarist and Harpsichordist, the contemporary instrument that I play for these recordings and compositions, is a Starr Labs Ztar. It allows multiple nested layered tunings and can assign any note to any key in any order This allows me to play and compose material which are not possible to play by oneself on a typical acoustic or electric instrument. This is most fully realized in my latest work: "Suite for Ztar and Orchestra, Op.1 No.1" which intertwines my own Compositions with those of JS Bach resulting in a very Modern and new work.

Regards,
Les Fradkin
http://www.lesfradkin.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/lesfradkin
https://www.facebook.com/lfradkin
http://www.youtube.com/user/lfradkin
http://lesfradkin1.bandcamp.com/album/suite-for-ztar-and-orchestra-in-g-minor-op-1-no-1


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## clavichorder

There are several experiments that are worth knowing, done by an unlikely neo baroque composer, Richard Strauss.

My favorite might be the Dance Suite after Couperin, which often sounds like thickened up baroque music, unadulterated, but with occasional twists thrown in. Perhaps akin to Schnittke's suite in the old style.






The Divertimento is a little different, but still fairly baroque:






I think there might be another. Yep, there is Le bourgeois gentilhomme. I think this is more "neo baroque" in the typical sense than the others, which are practically baroque with different orchestration and odd twists.


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## anthonydaly

Several modern composers integrate elements from the Baroque period into their works. See my post in classifieds. - it's a community for composers who compose in a Baroque-inspired style.


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## Heliogabo

I'll mention spanish Pablo Queipo de LLano and vivaldian Federico María Sardelli as fine neo baroque composers.


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