# Haydn Symphony Series Part 7: 61-70



## Ramako

So, the 60's... This is a realm which I'm not as familiar with as previous ones, but there seem to be some very good symphonies here too (unsurprisingly). Here is another table 



Hoboken NumberingOrder of compositionYear of composition616917766275178063741779645817736548176966681774/177567661774/177568651774/177569671774/177570711778/1779


http://www.haydn107.com/index.php?id=21&lng=2

Previous Haydn symphony threads: Previous Haydn symphony threads: 1-10, 11-20,21-30, 31-40, 41-50, 51-60


----------



## Vaneyes

Early bird. My 1 vote for 68 (100%) looks impressive. Truthfully, it's the only 60's rec. I have (ACO/Harnoncourt), and I can't bring to mind any other 60's I've heard. So, there you have it. Thanks for asking. :tiphat:


----------



## clavichorder

I simply cannot vote this round, yet. I think I said something similar for the 30s, but I actually know a few of those whereas I just can't access any of these in my memory so listening is required.


----------



## Ramako

I have to apologise! Symphony number 69 is usually called "Laudon" but I have forgotten to put the nickname in the poll.


----------



## Ramako

By the way, for future threads I am thinking of doing:

71-80
81-90
91-98
99-104

This keeps the decade system intact for as long as possible. The other option I am considering is

71-81
82-87 (Paris)
88-92
93-98 (London I)
99-104 (London II)

This possibly follows the natural groupings of the symphonies more closely. I am aware that there is already a London symphonies thread, but I don't know if there is a Paris one (I have google searched and didn't find one, but if there is then the first option is definitely better). In general am leaning towards the first option though because it is one less thread and it keeps the decade system which has characterised these threads from the beginning until almost the end, but I am not fully sure.

(I wish to separate 99-104 from the previous ones in both cases because in my opinion there are significant differences between the first and second set of London symphonies, and also there is already a London symphony thread for all 12 of them.)

Any opinions?


----------



## Arsakes

Ramako said:


> By the way, for future threads I am thinking of doing:
> 
> 71-80
> 81-90
> 91-98
> 99-104
> 
> This keeps the decade system intact for as long as possible. The other option I am considering is
> 
> 71-81
> 82-87 (Paris)
> 88-92
> 93-98 (London I)
> 99-104 (London II)
> 
> This possibly follows the natural groupings of the symphonies more closely. I am aware that there is already a London symphonies thread, but I don't know if there is a Paris one (I have google searched and didn't find one, but if there is then the first option is definitely better). In general am leaning towards the first option though because it is one less thread and it keeps the decade system which has characterised these threads from the beginning until almost the end.
> 
> (I wish to separate 99-104 from the previous ones in both cases because in my opinion there are significant differences between the first and second set of London symphonies, and also there is already a London symphony thread for all 12 of them.)
> 
> Any opinions?


I agree......


----------



## OldListener

Ramako said:


> The other option I am considering is
> 
> 71-81
> 82-87 (Paris)
> 88-92
> 93-98 (London I)
> 99-104 (London II)


I like this division. It is less arbitrary.

Bill


----------



## Novelette

I'm happy to see 63 and 70 receiving ample appreciation.

It's wonderful to be able to discuss and share music with people who enjoy it as much as I do.


----------



## clavichorder

So, this is for a later series, but have you guys heard symphony 89(following one of his masterpieces, 88)? Its a well put together symphony, but very much a come down in inspiration level from 88. Some speculate it was written at an earlier date, or wasn't written by FJ Haydn at all, or perhaps Haydn gave 88 all he had and still had a demand on him to produce another symphony(if it is known to be chronological)? 

I have listened to 89 in its entirety several times. I have enjoyed it. But seriously, no question that 88 is far more inspired and raw, and that the others that follow it are of a higher standard.


----------



## Ramako

In the end I have just voted for 61 and 62. These two stick out most for me, though this might be because I have listened to them far more than any others of the set (for coincidental reasons). I cannot overcome this except over a very long time period however. Nevertheless I feel justified in my choice: Once again Haydn proves himself capable in these works of producing 10 very fine symphonies, and I find it very hard to judge between these once again.

61 has a wonderful first movement I like. Particularly notable is the closing theme, which is a beautiful soaring legato line in the flutes which come after a pause with a powerful preparation. The last movement is one of those wonderfully silly Haydn movements that cannot but make you smile. Great tune. It's a rondo, but even the episodes are good - especially the first one I always find very exciting.

62 I find less remarkable than 61 (definitely my favourite of the set), though perhaps more consistent. The first movement uses the same motoric technique I like so much in the finale of 53, though to a lesser extent. The second movement is really beautiful - the movement that made me choose to vote for this one. There are some really beautiful harmonies in there. And they are wonderfully supported by the winds as the movement progresses. In both of these symphonies we can see Haydn developing as an orchestrator till he would reach the stage that Rimsky-Korsakov would call him 'the greatest master' of the An interesting point about the last movement is that it starts in the 'wrong' key. Rather than just being ambiguous, it starts off in a kind of tonal nether-land before reaching the tonic.

I had such a hard time choosing a third that I decided not to and simply to go with my top two. However, many of these are very good. Interestingly I find myself drawn more to the slow movements than the fast ones in this set. This seems to me to be pointing towards his late style in the London symphonies where frequently it is the slow movement that is the one I find most interesting.


----------



## Ramako

Also, I'm sorry for not having made the next one yet. I still haven't made up my mind about the numbering - any more opinions on that would be very welcome (see my post somewhat above). I will make the next one soon and then the rest will follow at a quicker pace I hope.


----------



## clavichorder

Ha! I was lucky in picking 61 to listen to a few nights ago I see. It struck me as kind of unusual and surprising.


----------



## Novelette

My favorite movement among this whole list is Symphony #70 in D, H 1/70 - 2. Specie di un canone in contrapunto doppio, Andante.

I was very intrigued when I first heard this delicate and extraordinarily mysterious movement. It has an intensity and pensiveness to it that shows a more introverted sensibility among Haydn's works. Haydn's skill at counterpoint is indisputable, and it is a pity that he didn't compose more works of such a particular textural complexity. Surely there are a few more, but this work stands out in my mind.


----------



## Novelette

I would be remiss not to mention the finale of the 70th Symphony: a large and incredibly dramatic fugue. Perfect way to end a wonderful symphony. Thus Symphony 70 stands out as among my 5 favorite Haydn symphonies.


----------



## Roi N

How can a fan of Haydn not know these symphonies by heart? 61-75 are the best he composed other than Paris and London. 61, 62, 63 (1st Movement was an Overture, so it's really special and great), 67 (Very original and long 1st theme. Great whistling material), 68, 69 (As good as C Major Symphonies come) & 70 (Striking 1st movement. And that fugue finale. Wow.) He really hit his stride during these symphonies.


----------



## DebussyDoesDallas

Indeed, #70 is one of Haydn's greatest and needs a nickname pronto.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Recently listened to Harnoncourt conducting No. 69 in C Major, the 'Laudon', and loved it! Excellent symphony, I especially like the energetic outer movements.


----------



## Funny

No one is sticking up for 65, though it has a hilarious minuet that slips into "four" midway through its main phrase and then, stone-faced, slips right back out of it at the cadence. That alone is worth the price of admission for 65.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Funny said:


> No one is sticking up for 65, though it has a hilarious minuet that slips into "four" midway through its main phrase and then, stone-faced, slips right back out of it at the cadence. That alone is worth the price of admission for 65.


I think the Andante is pretty funny and unusual in that one too .


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

At this time, I'm not especially drawn to any of Haydn's works in this lot, with the sole exception of No. 69.


----------

