# Napoleonic Hands



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

This is thread to share pictures of composers/classical music performers with Napoleonic Hand.

In case someone wouldn't know what it means - Napoleonic Hand is famous pose where you put you hand under your suit like you would reach for something. It is the most awesome pose in history of humanity and classical composers (and other artists, mainly from XIXth century) seem to agree with this as they often took this pose on portraits and photos.

The Napoleonic Hand of Napoleon:










Now, the composers:

Wagner:










Donizetti:










Verdi:










Rossini:


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

(another part, due to limit of images per post)

Wieniawski:










Berlioz:










Liszt:










Tausig:










Hugo Alfven:










Or the famous tenor, Rubini:


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

And with dedication to Tapkaara who, I'm sure, would like to post it himself:










(Sibelius)


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

All of them really wont to be sure that they have their wallets, so as to pay the photographer.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It's a pose reminiscent of when the patricians of ancient Rome used to grasp one of the folds of the toga with the right hand - perhaps a variation of this was taken up as an appropriately grand pose by the 19th century Emperor in question? I remember when I was a kid asking my mum why he was scratching himself.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Extraordinary.
I had never noticed this.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Nice thread, Aramis. Different and interesting.


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

This is a very cool sequence of photos, Aramis. 

Are there any paintings of composers prior to Napoleon's time using this gesture? I'm pretty sure that David's paintings of Napoleon went EVERYWHERE in the empire - there's even one in New Orleans, a place that Napoleon sold - along with about a couple million km² of land, to the U.S. in 1803.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

You know, if you think about it, it's a pretty strange pose!

Yes Aramis, thank you for the Sibelius picture. Here is another one that is a little bit more rare.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Its almost as if all these guys were in their own special secret club or something...for people to pose with hiding hands, or hidden hands. The hidden hand that rules the world muwahahahaha.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Surprised to see Berlioz might have been right handed, even though you can't be sure in a portrait like this, since its just a pose.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Very strange pose, indeed...maybe it was a thing of the times...here's one who didn't compose much but maybe he wanted to thrown in the mix! Ahh, but great hands he did have...shame they were always cold.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

waldvogel said:


> Are there any paintings of composers prior to Napoleon's time using this gesture? I'm pretty sure that David's paintings of Napoleon went EVERYWHERE in the empire - there's even one in New Orleans, a place that Napoleon sold - along with about a couple million km² of land, to the U.S. in 1803.


It may seem curious that most of these composers were related to France. Wagner's photo is from his Paris years, then we got young Liszt, Wieniawski, Donizetti, Rossini, Verdi - all of them had major period of living and creating in Paris, then there's Frenchmen Berlioz and Rubini who sung in Italian Opera of Paris. The only ones without such connection are Sibelius and Alfven - these two are at the same time most "recent" composer of the bunch. So I think it's really pose of Napoleonic origin.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

If you google *Napoleonic hidden hand pose*, this is the first link that comes up:

http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/the-hidden-hand-that-changed-history/


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

Aramis said:


> Wagner:


Wagner's probably thinking "Meine Uhr!" as he reached for his pocket.

I must thank you Aramis for I have never known that the pose is closely related to Napoleon. Very informative. :tiphat:


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

tdc said:


> If you google *Napoleonic hidden hand pose*, this is the first link that comes up:
> 
> http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/the-hidden-hand-that-changed-history/


Freemasonry seems to be a common explanation for collective strangeness by famous dead men. Interesting.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> Freemasonry seems to be a common explanation for collective strangeness by famous dead men. Interesting.


Yes, it also seems to often be used as a bit of a scapegoat for many of the world's problems. While I think there may be some truth to this, its kind of like saying ' Americans are responsible for the wars and economy problems in the world etc' While there is a grain of truth to this, the problems are more complex and obviously many actual Americans are fine, honest and intelligent citizens.
The same could be said for Freemasons if there are some actually in control they are probably unseen by most. If these composers have in fact been in charge of world decisions over the centuries, perhaps they should have stuck to just writing music hehe


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