# What is atonalism



## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

I have recently found out something I am a bit worried to listen to and people call it 'atonal.'

I really love to listen to a lot of music from the 20th and 21st and 22nd centuries and I love the 2nd Viennese school and 3rd Viennese school as well as listening to lots of Xenakis and Stockhausen and Ligeti and Boulez and Berio and Nono and composers like that. But reading the forum i have discovered a thing that came about in the 20th century called 'atonal' and I dont know what it is but it seems like something I don't want to listen to because it is UNNATURAL and has too much dissonance and doesn't follow the natural order of the universe and it apparently ALIENATES listeners which must mean it is BAD.

Can someone please tell me what atonalism composers i should avoid because I don't want to accidentally listen to atonal because I probably will not like it and my brains might melt and ooze out of my ears and that will be painful. 

Please help. Thank you.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

jms said:


> I have recently found out something I am a bit worried to listen to and people call it 'atonal.'
> 
> I really love to listen to a lot of music from the 20th and 21st and 22nd centuries and I love the 2nd Viennese school and 3rd Viennese school as well as listening to lots of Xenakis and Stockhausen and Ligeti and Boulez and Berio and Nono and composers like that. But reading the forum i have discovered a thing that came about in the 20th century called 'atonal' and I dont know what it is but it seems like something I don't want to listen to because it is UNNATURAL and has too much dissonance and doesn't follow the natural order of the universe and it apparently ALIENATES listeners which must mean it is BAD.
> 
> ...


You have just opened a huge can of worms. There have been thread wars over this subject.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> You have just opened a huge can of worms. There have been thread wars over this subject.


Just asking for a bit of enlightenment so I know what music to avoid. Thank you for your help but i don't think a can of worms is what I had in mind. Have a lovely day filled with beautiful music


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

All music alienates someone. I never let that stop me from listening to what I enjoy. (It does sometimes inform the volume at which I listen.) 

It's an innocent enough question. It's just that there's a history in these forums of the divisive nature of the A-word. Personally I think the semantic debate is tremendous fun as long as no one gets injured. I'm off to make some popcorn.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

Weston said:


> All music alienates someone. I never let that stop me from listening to what I enjoy. (It does sometimes inform the volume at which I listen.)
> 
> It's an innocent enough question. It's just that there's a history in these forums of the divisive nature of the A-word.


I don't want to find out what atonalism music sounds like. I have posted composers i like in the OP so can you tell me what are atonalism composers i should avoid if i don't want to listen to atonalism music?

I think alienating an audience is a bad thing therefore I don't want to find out what atonal sounds like. Have a lovely day filled with beautiful music.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Weston said:


> All music alienates someone. I never let that stop me from listening to what I enjoy. (It does sometimes inform the volume at which I listen.)
> 
> *It's an innocent enough question*. It's just that there's a history in these forums of the divisive nature of the A-word. Personally I think the semantic debate is tremendous fun as long as no one gets injured. I'm off to make some popcorn.


It's quite obviously not an innocent question. The OP knows very well what he's doing.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

jms said:


> Just asking for a bit of enlightenment so I know what music to avoid. Thank you for your help but i don't think a can of worms is what I had in mind. Have a lovely day filled with beautiful music


I was about to post a recording of an amplified can of worms, but you say that's not what you're after?


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

SimonNZ said:


> I was about to post a recording of an amplified can of worms, but you say that's not what you're after?


If it is atonalism then it is not what I want to listen to. I also like Babbitt and Carter and Cage and Crumb. I hope you have a lovely day filled with the most beautiful music.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, worms make good bait. The OP knows this, and I'm quite certain this person doesn't really need an answer to his less than sincere inquiry.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

GreenMamba said:


> It's quite obviously not an innocent question. The OP knows very well what he's doing.


In that case the OP should avoid any music centered around 440Hz (415 if prior to about 1900).


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

If i do not attach a worm to the hook, how to I reel in answers to my question? I hope you have a beautiful day filled with wonderful music.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

Weston said:


> In that case the OP should avoid any music centered around 440Hz (415 if prior to about 1900).


I will keep this in mind, thank you. What pieces have this characteristic? I hope you have an enjoyable day filled with lovely music.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2016)

I don't like the key of a major but is it atonalism if alienating music is written in A major?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

jms said:


> ...I really love to listen to a lot of music from the 20th and 21st and 22nd centuries...


22nd century music is a favorite of mine also.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I was just listening to a recording of music written to accompany Aeschylean theatre in Ancient Greece -- and find the key center very hard to identify


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Therefore Bongos .


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2016)

Are Bongos atonalism? Are they like bongs at all?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Therefore Bongos .


The ever good dry sense of humour.:lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

jms said:


> I have recently found out something I am a bit worried to listen to and people call it 'atonal.'
> 
> I have discovered a thing that came about in the 20th century called 'atonal' and I dont know what it is but it seems like something I don't want to listen to because it is UNNATURAL and has too much dissonance and doesn't follow the natural order of the universe and it apparently ALIENATES listeners which must mean it is BAD.
> 
> Can someone please tell me what atonalism composers i should avoid because I don't want to accidentally listen to atonal because I probably will not like it and my brains might melt and ooze out of my ears and that will be painful.


Some claim there is no atonal music. This is wrong. _All_ _music is atonal_. Therefore, for your own safety, you will need to stop listening to music immediately. If you do, you'll find that you no longer want to enter music forums and ask silly questions just to get reactions and attention.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

"We are the Atonal. You will be assimilated. We will add your Tonal distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

"Atonal" is a term that can only be correctly applied to music in which tonality, or pitch-centeredness, is absent. It is an exclusionary term. This music is based on non-harmonic principles, and does not use a tonal hierarchy which relates all notes to one note.

Music which is not properly tonal in the CP sense, but is basically derived from tonality in its use of harmonic elements and vestiges of tonality, is basically a form of tonality and is not properly called "atonal," but a form of extended, weakened, modified, or altered tonality.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

DeepR said:


> "We are the Atonal. You will be assimilated. We will add your Tonal distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."


Yes, just like Alban Borg said. :lol:

As more notes are added, approaching 12, distinctiveness begins to be lost, and a chromatic vagueness takes over. Tonality is a reductive process. The less notes that are present, the more distinctly tonal it becomes. The caveat is a loss of variety. The other side of that is when variety increases, redundancy begins to set in. Ideally, a balance is reached which preserves both tonality and variety. Maximum variety is achieved with 6 notes.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Much mischief afoot here
Hope we all have a nice day etc


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Okay, I guess I have to be the one to explain this:
Ataxia is impaired coordination.
Apraxia is a speech disorder.
Aphasia is another speech disorder.

Atonalism is the inability to discern tones. Many modern composers suffer(ed) from it.


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