# The Symphony Game: Proposals



## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

(on a variation of the Amazon forum)

*Your job is to nominate 5 symphonies.* The top 25 symphonies with the most votes (at the end of the proposal stage) will advance to the main voting round (You can see a previous TalkClassical version of this here)

It would be highly preferred if your nominees had at least a _legitimate chance of winning_. However, that's not to say you can't vote for some of the more rare works of the repertoire, but keep in mind that it is unlikely that this nomination will advance to the next round, let alone survive there.

Please keep your nominations to _five only_. Do not order your picks. Also, please vote only once. Any additional "ballots" will be disregarded and will not affect the final 25 who "move on". Lastly, note that "choral symphonies" such as Mahler's _Das Lied von der Erde_ and Stravinsky's _Psalmensinfonie_ do count!

Once we get at least 20 sets of nominations in, the game will begin! 

So let the nominations start (with my humble and undeserving list of five)...

>>>

Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 "Eroica"
Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection"
Bruckner: Symphony No. 8 "Apocalyptic"
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 2
Nielsen: Symphony No. 5

>>>

I _do_ expect/hope that the usual suspects will make it. If not, things will be quite bizarre!


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Beethoven - Symphony no. 9 "Choral"
Beethoven - Symphony no. 6 "Pastoral"
Brahms - Symphony no. 4
Bruckner - Symphony no. 7
Mozart - Symphony no. 41 "Jupiter"


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Flawed, and set up for cheats like me. How? I just sit back and wait until 19 responses are in, tally up the nominations myself, and then I come up with my "5 nominations" based on the 19 before that statistically show which are the most popular. Then I win.

I have seen this before. They are played blind, i.e. without seeing what other people nominate. Unless I'm understanding this wrong?


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## JAKE WYB (May 28, 2009)

but im not sad enough to care about winning its about voicing my music of choice - 

Sibelius - 4
Sibelius - 6
VW - 5th
Bax - Symphony 3
Mahler - 6th

could easily have been another 5 without any loss of favourites...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

JAKE WYB said:


> but im not sad enough to care about winning its about voicing my music of choice -
> ..


I'm not sad enough nor dumb enough to participate in the first place. And you missed the point. It's not about your music of choice, *it's about anticipating what others will nominate*. I guess you just lack foresight.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

This is just the first part of it. The top ones - as I understand it - then participate in symphony v symphony contests until an overall winner wins.


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## JAKE WYB (May 28, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I'm not sad enough nor dumb enough to participate in the first place. And you missed the point. It's not about your music of choice, *it's about anticipating what others will nominate*. I guess you just lack foresight.


no your just a curmudgeon - too busy posting and flouncing your indifference

its not exactly hard just to plop in 5 symphonies is it


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

There is a certain amount of unwanted strategy and other flaws to this, but I'll list my five anyway!

Brahms's 4th
Dvorak's 7th
Tchaikovsky's _Manfred_
Tchaikovsky's 6th
Mendelssohn's 3rd


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I'm not sad enough nor dumb enough to participate in the first place. And you missed the point. It's not about your music of choice, *it's about anticipating what others will nominate*. I guess you just lack foresight.


There's always one, isn't there! It's actually about having a bit of fun, which is sadly lacking round these parts.

Anyway, my choices are as follows:

Mahler 3
Shostakovich 11 'Year 1905'
Tchaikovsky 'Manfred'
Vaughan Williams 2 'London' (gotta have some British represenation in the final stage)
Beethoven 7


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Mahler 4
Schubert 8
Dvorak 9
Saint Saens 3
Gorecki 3


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mozart 41
Beethoven 6
Brahms 4
Elgar 1
Schubert 9

I probably forgot something I should have considered but this will do.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Mahler 2nd!!1 - Resurrection!!!
Prokofiev - 5th
Dvorak - Symphony No. 7
Mahler - 6
Rachmaninov - Symphony 2


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## Guest (May 6, 2010)

Beethoven 9
Bruckner 4
Mahler 2
Schubert 9
Dvorak 9


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Bizet 1
Schubert 9
Vaughan-Williams 5
Beethoven 6
Mahler 4


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Beethoven 5
Dvorak 9
Vaughan Williams 5
Bruckner 8
Tchaik 6

See that wasn't hard


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Flawed, and set up for cheats like me. How? I just sit back and wait until 19 responses are in, tally up the nominations myself, and then I come up with my "5 nominations" based on the 19 before that statistically show which are the most popular. Then I win.
> 
> I have seen this before. They are played blind, i.e. without seeing what other people nominate. Unless I'm understanding this wrong?


This is not about guessing the winner based on popularity, as you assume, but picking the winner based on popularity.

That aside, doesn't this largely duplicate this thread?


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Beethoven 9
Brahms 3
Tchaikovsky 5
Mozart 41
Haydn 104


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Edward Elgar said:


> Brahms 3


Yay! I was silly earlier and though that, seeing as it's tempted to be involved in some tactics, I'll go with Brahms 4 because people are more likely to pick it, but I really wanted to go for 3


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Tchaikovsky 5
Mahler 5
Beethoven 5
Shostakovich 5
Mendelssohn 5

IT'S A MAGIC DI RA RA RA, FIVE FIFTHS, DI RA RA RA OCH SO MAGIC, SO SWEET, SO SO SO DI RI DU BA


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Beethoven 9
Beethoven 7
Brahms 1 (sorry folks)
Bruckner 7
Vaughan-Williams 7


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Weston said:


> Vaughan-Williams 7


Antarctica *represent*!


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Opal said:


> This is not about guessing the winner based on popularity, as you assume, but picking the winner based on popularity.


You can mince and mix your words how you like.



Air said:


> It would be highly preferred if your nominees had at least a _legitimate chance of winning_. However, that's not to say you can't vote for some of the more rare works of the repertoire, but keep in mind that it is unlikely that this nomination will advance to the next round, let alone survive there.


Member Air clearly stated (in italics following) "it would be highly preferred if your nominees had at least a _legitimate chance of winning_"; note "higly preferred" and "legitimate chance". That means you do that by anticipating what others will nominate, if you even care to think about strategy and how to get ahead in this game (or life for that matter). This is not a poll on "your personal top 5 favourites and the most popular wins".

Unless of course, like many sheep people in this world who are generally unthinking, you would happily go along with your own fancy.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I'm not sad enough nor dumb enough to participate in the first place.


 

I'm guessing most people aren't so obsessed with their choices that they really care about "winning" this thread. It's about participation, and the fun of narrowing down your favorite symphonies


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Harp, don't you have better things to do than complain about the specifics of a poll that's simply 'for fun'? 

Nominations, sorry for my Russian bias:
- Tchaikovsky 4th
- Nielsen 5th
- Shostakovitch 5th
- Rachmaninov 2nd
- Mahler 5th


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Bruckner 8
Rubbra 6
Sibelius 7
Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde
Messian: Turangalila-Symphonie


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

One can guess which ones will win - Beethoven 5, 6 & 9; Saint Saens' Organ, Tchaikovsky 6, Dvorak 9, Sibelius 2, etc. etc. A top symphony 100 poll was done recently on Australian classical music radio ABC Classic FM. The result was the usual suspects:

http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/symphony/list.htm

Anyway, here are my nominations (most of these have no chance of winning, but who cares?, I'd rather nominate these than the ones that bore me to death):

Shostakovich 10
Beethoven 3 'Eroica'
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
Messiaen Turangalila Symphony (good one, violist!)
Hindemith Mathis der Maler

An extra one I would have liked to have included was Hovhaness' 2 'Mysterious Mountain', but that has a miniscule chance of getting up, even less than Messiaen or Hindemith, so I didn't include it...


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## Poppin' Fresh (Oct 24, 2009)

Schnittke - Symphony No. 1
Sibelius - Symphony No. 7
Beethoven - Symphony No. 3
Messiaen - Turangalila Symphony
Nielsen - Symphony No. 5


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Andre said:


> One can guess which ones will win - Beethoven 5, 6 & 9; Saint Saens' Organ, Tchaikovsky 6, Dvorak 9, Sibelius 2, etc. etc. A top symphony 100 poll was done recently on Australian classical music radio ABC Classic FM. The result was the usual suspects:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/symphony/list.htm


Does the Organ Symphony really have a serious chance of winning?


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> You can mince and mix your words how you like.
> 
> Member Air clearly stated (in italics following) "it would be highly preferred if your nominees had at least a _legitimate chance of winning_"; note "higly preferred" and "legitimate chance". That means you do that by anticipating what others will nominate, if you even care to think about strategy and how to get ahead in this game (or life for that matter). This is not a poll on "your personal top 5 favourites and the most popular wins".
> 
> Unless of course, like many sheep people in this world who are generally unthinking, you would happily go along with your own fancy.


I am sorry to say that you have misconstrued the purpose of this thread. The very clear purpose is simply to allow individual members to list their favourite symphonies so as to derive a ranking that can be said to represent the opinion of the majority of TC members. It is not to guess the likely winner and collect some kind of prize or win some kind of accreditation if you get it right, as you appear to be assuming. I can't imagine why you have derived this peculiar interpretation. No-one else agrees with you.

I am surprised that "Air" hasn't come back to correct your fundamental misunderstanding here.

Despite all this, as I pointed out in my previous post, there is another thread which cuts right across this one. It was started in November 2006 and invited members to list their "Favorite 10 Symphonies". That thread is still going and has now attracted some 186 replies, the last one being as recent as 17 April 2010. All the material needed to compile a ranking list of symphonies is available from that thread, in much greater abundance than is likely to emerge from this one. Based on that earlier thread, it would appear that the likely top 5 would be from those set out below:

BEETHOVEN 9
BEETHOVEN 5
BRAHMS 1
BEETHOVEN 3
SCHUBERT 8
BRUCKNER 8
BEETHOVEN 6
MOZART 40
BRAHMS 3
SHOSTAKOVICH 10


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

starry said:


> Does the Organ Symphony really have a serious chance of winning?


No, unless the remaining two "ballots" both include it, which I highly doubt will happen.

The current list of top qualifiers are actually not as orthodox as I had expected. Most of the "big shots" are included (which should happen), but a few lesser-known symphonies did manage to sneak in ahead of some of the warhorses (Saint Saens 3, Tchaikovsky 4, Bruckner 4 among others)

There are two symphonies that I'm surprised have not yet been nominated. At this point, they already have little or no chance of entering the main round, which really is a pity. I expected both of these symphonies, especially on this forum, to have much more support.

I did not use the "Top 10 Symphonies" thread, for 3 main reasons:

(1) I do not have the time.
(2) I prefer having current TC members participate in nomination (though Topaz, ChamberNut, Keemun and friends can come back!)
(3) I'm just another damned poster who wants more attention  (i'm not sure if this is _really_ true)

The results here are much more intriguing too, may I add!

It seems that some of you do not understand the purpose of this thread. It is merely a preliminary round for the 25 participating symphonies to be nominated. The main round is much like the "Conductor Survivor Game" that TC had about a year ago. I explained all of this in the original post and even provided a link to one of the earlier versions for you to get a sense of what will be happening.

Anyways, two more sets of nominations on the clock. If these are not in within 24 hours, the preliminary round will be closed to voting. At that point, we will begin the main voting round...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Opal said:


> I am sorry to say that you have misconstrued the purpose of this thread. The very clear purpose is simply to allow individual members to list their favourite symphonies so as to derive a ranking that can be said to represent the opinion of the majority of TC members. It is not to guess the likely winner and collect some kind of prize or win some kind of accreditation if you get it right, as you appear to be assuming. I can't imagine why you have derived this peculiar interpretation. No-one else agrees with you.
> 
> I am surprised that "Air" hasn't come back to correct your fundamental misunderstanding here.
> 
> ...


The third word of this thread is "*game*" (The Symphony Game), not "poll" or survey. (And you don't have to be sorry for anything).

Anyway, thanks for your statistical survey above. I shall nominate the following five because I think these are the 5 most favourite symphonies of most members here, and I would like to see how these progress to the next round in this game. The 5 that I nominate below are not entirely my personal favourites:-

BEETHOVEN #9
BRAHMS #3
BRUCKNER #8
BEETHOVEN #6
SHOSTAKOVICH #10

My personal favourites would include a few by Haydn, which nobody has nominated anyway as I expected.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Sibelius 5
Beethoven 5
Mahler 2
Beethoven 9
Sibelius 7


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Air said:


> There are two symphonies that I'm surprised have not yet been nominated. At this point, they already have little or no chance of entering the main round, which really is a pity. I expected both of these symphonies, especially on this forum, to have much more support.


I'm wracking my brain now trying to figure out which two you are referring to. I guess you are not telling because you don't want to influence anyone. Please tell us at some point though.

(Actually now that I think on it - there may be one that i considered and rejected, not mentioned so far.)


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> My personal favourites would include a few by Haydn, which nobody has nominated anyway as I expected.


I see one nomination for Haydn and I seriously considered the No. 100 "Military" but rejected it when something I enjoy slightly more came up in my catalog. He would then of course have been competing with himself had I nominated the 100.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Weston said:


> I'm wracking my brain now trying to figure out which two you are referring to. I guess you are not telling because you don't want to influence anyone. Please tell us at some point though.
> 
> (Actually now that I think on it - there may be one that i considered and rejected, not mentioned so far.)


Sibelius 2, Mahler 9, Schubert 8, Mozart 40.

I added two to the original two I was thinking of.

_Folks, the preliminary proposal round is officially over! The following 25 symphonies have qualified:_

* stands for number of votes

Beethoven 9******
Beethoven 6****
Bruckner 8****
Mahler 2****
Mozart 41***
Beethoven 3***
Schubert 9***
Brahms 4***
Dvorak 9***
Nielsen 5***
Vaughan Williams 5***
Beethoven 5***
Messaien Turangalila-Symphonie***
Sibelius 7***
Beethoven 7**
Bruckner 7**
Dvorak 7**
Tchaikovsky 5**
Tchaikovsky Manfred**
Tchaikovsky 6**
Mahler 4**
Mahler 5**
Mahler 6**
Rachmaninov 2**
Shostakovich 5**

_In addition to the above, 2 other symphonies received multiple votes._

Brahms 3**
Shostakovich 10**

_However, the votes for these came in at the very end, so they were eventually disregarded for the final list. I regret having to make this decision as both of these symphonies IMHO clearly deserve a spot on the list.

Do not pout that Beethoven's 9th and 6th came out on top! This was just the preliminary round._

*I now invite you all to participate in the main voting round, which is the real thing:*

http://www.talkclassical.com/8987-symphony-game-main-voting.html

Enjoy!


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