# What Pieces to Recomend for Friends New to Classical?



## One Big Ear (Apr 14, 2014)

I am curious to know which classical pieces my esteemed colleagues and fellow classical junkies would recommend for trying to get other people hooked on the genera. I have numerous friends who are true music lovers. We often share new discoveries and chat about what we like or dislike about certain bands or albums. Mostly we gravitate to old classic rock, new alternative and progressive bands, and occasionally something more pop culture-y. We have all had some real success in broadening each other's horizons. I have managed to introduce a few people to metal, and I have even allowed others to nudge me toward the hip-hop world a tiny bit. But my real passion is in the works of the old great composers, and I cannot seem to get anybody else hooked! I really try hard; I pick accessible composers with plenty of meat. I get them decent recordings, and I insist that they have to listen to the damn thing a number of times. And by a number, I mean at least 6 to 10 times. I think the problem is that they don't believe me. They get through listening to it three times, and it still hasn't totally clicked, and so they assume there really isn't any substance there, or at least nothing they will ever personally get into. And that's when I start sounding like a bully. I say listen again! And they give me some sort of story about how they will try to, but that they have to be in a certain mood to listen to it, and they put it off and eventually give up. Like I said, they have good musical tastes, but most people really don't have any experience with the sort of up-front time investment classical music takes. What pieces or composers do ya'll tend to push on other people? Mostly I have tried Tchaikovsky's 6th for people who tend to enjoy moodier music, Brahm's German Requiem for friends with more dramatic tastes, and Sibeliu's 2nd for those that prefer brighter, more melodic tunes. Really I only picked those because I fell in love with them relatively quickly, and I assume it may work out that way for others. But apparently it does not. So my question stands: what do you recommend for a new initiate?


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

I've noticed that many people feel somewhat emotionally brow beaten by a lot of 'classical' music. Sibelius's second symphony demands an emotional response they do not want to make.

Now one of the slow movements from the Mozart piano concertos does not shout and might just work for people who feel intimidated by dramatic music. It gives them space to listen.


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## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Welcome to Talk Classical. I'm presuming that _they_ asked for recommendations. I try to wait until the person himself / herself asks. My guess is that late romantic (Brahms, Tchaikovsky, early Sibelius) is not likely to appeal to many raised on classic rock or, for that matter, new alternative. Much depends on the person. I tailor my recommendations to the person asking. Also I would never do what you said you did: namely, insist that they listen many times or badger them about it. Let the music work its magic. When people do ask, I often start them with things they may have heard before, with the bottom-line basics and with the best performances I can think of. E.g.

Carlos Kleiber / Vienna Philharmonic, _Beethoven: Symphonies no. 5 & 7_ (DG)










Rafael Kubelik / Berliner Philharmoniker, _Dvorak: Symphony no. 9 ("From the New World")_










Leonard Bernstein / N.Y. Philharmonic, _Copland: Appalachian Spring_










Of course, generic offerings like those three don't work for all. Sometimes quieter piano works such as those of Debussy or the Preludes of Rachmaninov for those who enjoy quieter rock or jazz. Mussorgsky's _Pictures at an Exhbition_ and Janacek's _Sinfonietta_ often appeal to some familiar with prog rock. More recent (even avant-garde) works appeal to those who are used to electronica or to groups like Radiohead: e.g Steve Reich's _Music for 18 Musicians_.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

They should start with J.S. Bach's orchestral works (Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos, Oboe Concertos and orchestral Suites), there is no way anyone can dislike these works.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

It's hard to judge as people have different tastes. You need to give them more variety to explore (I think your three suggestions are pretty limited). And don't be afraid of the 20c. 

I'd suggest Janacek's Sinfonietta, but there are really so many more to try.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DrMuller said:


> They should start with J.S. Bach's orchestral works (Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos, Oboe Concertos and orchestral Suites), *there is no way anyone can dislike these works*.


Yes there is. I get frustrated with anyone saying this (or its opposite, that "there's no way anyone can like this") because people have different tastes and respond to different things. If you assume that everyone hears music in the same way, you're bound to encounter a lot of people who simply give up, saying "if everyone who enjoys Classical enjoys this piece, and I don't enjoy this piece, then I probably don't enjoy Classical music and never will".


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I force people to lock themselves in a dark room and listen to the Rite of Spring very loudly. Most people who "dislike" classical probably do so without even realising that this sort of music exists. I still find the piece utterly earth-shattering and I am convinced it can alter one's entire musical perceptions.


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## echmain (Jan 18, 2013)

In giving suggestions to friends, I'm 0 for whatever. It *never* works.

The only thing I could suggest is for them to listen to a classical stream on Pandora, Spotify, etc and let them find their own favorites. Then they are under no pressure to like this or that just because you suggested it.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> Yes there is. I get frustrated with anyone saying this (or its opposite, that "there's no way anyone can like this") because people have different tastes and respond to different things. If you assume that everyone hears music in the same way, you're bound to encounter a lot of people who simply give up, saying "if everyone who enjoys Classical enjoys this piece, and I don't enjoy this piece, then I probably don't enjoy Classical music and never will".


OK, poor choice of words, and you are right, people respond differently to music. I should have said: I started with Bach's orchestral works and found them fantastic and a great place to start. What I was trying to explain is that I find Bach's orchestral works very accessible. When I was starting to get into classical music I asked them same question: where shall I start and people always said: start with Mozart, you will love him right away, every one does. Well, I didn't respond to his music at first, I did however respond to Bach right away. It's only fair I tell you that I love Mozart today though, one of my top 10 favorite composers. Mahlerian, I am curious: do you personally not like Bach?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I would be a bit surprised if there were people who didn't like any classical music, but came to later like it after listening 5 or 6 times to a variety of works. It's certainly possible for people to dislike a work and later enjoy it after repeated listenings. But if someone finds no music enjoyable on initial listening to many works, maybe classical simply isn't for them. 

I'm not sure anyone really knows what are the best classical works to suggest even given someone's favorite musical genres. I think one would have to do a large survey taking people who had never heard classical but did enjoy various non-classical genres, and then have them listen to works from many different classical eras determining which ones they enjoyed. Perhaps there would be a correlation between Rock, Hip Hop, Jazz, Progressive Rock, etc. and specific classical genres or works. 

I think your only options are to suggest a variety of popular classical works from different genres and see if any of those works click with your friends. If not, your friends will remain in the roughly 97% that do not listen to classical music.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DrMuller said:


> OK, poor choice of words, and you are right, people respond differently to music. I should have said: I started with Bach's orchestral works and found them fantastic and a great place to start. What I was trying to explain is that I find Bach's orchestral works very accessible.


I don't mean to single you out or anything. This is just something I see all the time. The point is that what one finds accessible or likable right off the bat will not necessarily seem so to others, because of different expectations or experiences.



DrMuller said:


> When I was starting to get into classical music I asked them same question: where shall I start and people always said: start with Mozart, you will love him right away, every one does. Well, I didn't respond to his music at first, I did however respond to Bach right away. It's only fair I tell you that I love Mozart today though, one of my top 10 favorite composers. Mahlerian, I am curious: do you personally not like Bach?


No, no, I love Bach! I love the cantatas, the B minor mass, the Brandenburg Concertos, the Violin Concertos, the Well-Tempered Clavier, and many other things. At times I have listed Bach as one of my favorite composers (along with Mozart and Mahler).


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

One Big Ear said:


> I insist that they have to listen to the damn thing a number of times. And by a number, I mean at least 6 to 10 times. I think the problem is that they don't believe me. They get through listening to it three times, and it still hasn't totally clicked, and so they assume there really isn't any substance there, or at least nothing they will ever personally get into. And that's when I start sounding like a bully. I say listen again!


BTW, I think this is a mistake. It's one thing if they listen to half the piece and give up, but they don't need to try 6-10 times. Maybe they can come back years from now and will like these works, but it's better to try different works than jam the same works through their skulls.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> I don't mean to single you out or anything. This is just something I see all the time. The point is that what one finds accessible or likable right off the bat will not necessarily seem so to others, because of different expectations or experiences.
> 
> No, no, I love Bach! I love the cantatas, the B minor mass, the Brandenburg Concertos, the Violin Concertos, the Well-Tempered Clavier, and many other things. At times I have listed Bach as one of my favorite composers (along with Mozart and Mahler).


I understand.


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## One Big Ear (Apr 14, 2014)

Alypius said:


> I'm presuming that _they_ asked for recommendations. I try to wait until the person himself / herself asks. My guess is that late romantic (Brahms, Tchaikovsky, early Sibelius) is not likely to appeal to many raised on classic rock or, for that matter, new alternative. Much depends on the person. I tailor my recommendations to the person asking. Also I would never do what you said you did: namely, insist that they listen many times or badger them about it.


In case I came across as especially pushy, let me clarify that myself and my friends are musical cohorts precisely because we enjoy giving and receiving recommendations for new sounds. It's in a willing and eager context that I occasionally find myself advocating classical music. I am, however, pretty insistent that if they are going to give a classical piece a shot, it will require a great deal more dedication and listening time than most other genres, with a great deal of payout once the music 'clicks.' The problem is that they will get almost to that threshold of musical epiphany, and then give up. I encourage them to give it just a little more time but they rarely do. I like your recommendations by the way; they do seem to have that balance between ease of access and real depth. Have you ever had success with those recommendations? Also, why do you suspect that there is an incompatibility between rock sensibility and the late romantics. I think that they would translate pretty well: bold and sweeping melodies, building crescendos, evocative key changes right at that emotional peak.


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## SARDiver (Jan 6, 2014)

I would try some pieces that are likely very familiar, but otherwise unknown. I saw The King's Speech, loved the music in the final big scene, and only years later discovered it was Beethoven's 7th. 

Vivaldi, Copland, and Beethoven were where I got started. Copland was one of my dad's favorites and I really liked it growing up. The other two were names I knew, music I'd heard, but with connections between the names and music that I never made. I started going deeper as I heard more and more familiar works that I enjoyed and began seeking out works I hadn't heard, but from those whom I liked.


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## Declined (Apr 8, 2014)

First of all, everybody has different tastes in music. What one person considers to be the greatest composition ever another may consider to be an abomination.


Though, in my humble opinion, I think it's very difficult to dislike Beethoven's 5th symphony.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

One Big Ear said:


> Mostly we gravitate to old classic rock, new alternative and progressive bands, and occasionally something more pop culture-y. ...I pick accessible composers with plenty of meat. I get them decent recordings, and I insist that they have to listen to the damn thing a number of times. ... So my question stands: what do you recommend for a new initiate?


I'm not sure what alternative and progressive bands sound like these days, but it sounds like your friends are game for adventure. I might suggest that accessible composers are not the ones for this group of friends. I might be more inclined to give them something wild  I admit that I haven't kept up with composers of the 21st Century, but something along the lines of the following should get you started (it got me started and I slowly worked my way back to more conventional classics):

Varèse - Amériques
Ligeti - Lontano & Piano Concerto
Messiaen - Turangalîla Symphony & Quartet for the End of Time & Chronochromie
Stockhausen - Opus 1970 & Cosmic Pulses & Kontakte
Xenakis - Persepolis & Achorripsis & Pléiades & Nomos Alpha & Metastasis
Lutoslawski - Piano Concerto & Partitia
Carter - Symphonia & Concerto for Orchestra
Webern - Passacaglia & Symphony
Dutilleux - L'Arbre des Songes
Mahler - Symphony 5
Schnittke - Symphony 3
Feldman - Piano and String Quartet
Scelsi - Okanagon
Cage - Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano
Berg - Orchestral Pieces
Ivo Malec - Luminétudes
Kagel - Der Schall
Respighi - Pini di Roma
Birtwistle - Carmen Arcadiae Mechanicae Perpetuum
Nono - La lontananza nostalgica utopica futura
Satie - Gnossiènnes & Parade
Kurt Weill - Three Penny Opera
Murail - Gondwana
Penderecki - Anaklasis & String Trio & Clarinet Concerto
Strauss - Metamorphoses & Alpensinfonie
Prokofiev - Piano Concerto 5 & Sinfonia concertante
Stravinsky - Rite of Spring
Shostakovich - Symphony 11 & Cello Concerto 1 & 2
Boulez - Mémoriale & Dialogue de l'Ombre Double
Schoenberg - Chamber Symphony 2 & Pierrot Lunaire & Wind Quintet & Suite
Ferrari - Tête et queue du dragon
Bartók - String Quartets 4-6 & Violin Concerto

I could list hundreds of pieces. These composers and pieces should get you started. Pick some pretty wild stuff, mix in some orchestral, chamber and solo pieces in more traditional guises (symphonies, concertos, sonatas) and, generally, build up a lot of excitement around the whole experience. Focus on different instruments and their unique sounds, too.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Copland Appalachian Spring, easily accessible and easy to love.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

I've done this for a number of friends who have asked me. I give them tastes of music that they have most likely heard from movies, TV, commercials, school, etc. (ie: Beethoven's 5th, 9th, Copelands Fanfare, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, etc). Most of the time I get back, "Oh wow, I always wondered who wrote that."

Sometimes it gets the juices going, and they will inquire about more things. If they inquire about more, then I ask if they favor a particular structure of music (solo, concerto, symphonic, etc).

You tend to enjoy something new if there is something you can relate to. That's why I try to give a broad range of familiar pieces from the Baroque through the 20th Century.

V


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

It might depend on age. At 17, I was addicted to Beethoven 5, naturally.
Hard to know what to suggest to an older person, but I'd be inclined to stick with similar things. Unless you've very good insight into what your friend might like. As a generic list I'd go with
Emperor Concerto
VW's Tallis fantasia
Bruch violin concerto
Cappricio Italien
Tannhauser Overture
Rachmaninov's Paganini vars
Bach BWV565 T&F
Planets suite

Sometimes bits of things might work too:
finale of Pines of Rome
1st mvt of Mahler 5
etc.

Haven't really addressed the OP question, I guess.
Maybe the biggest obstacle for people used to music in 3-minute chunks - whatever its genre - is trying to concentrate on the same piece for 30 minutes straight...
GG


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## Mesenkomaha (Jun 24, 2014)

Ease them into it with easy lighter listening like Baroque style. Vivaldi and most of Bach can be listened to as background music and don't require great attention. This will at least get your friends accustomed to the genre.


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