# What would your essential library look like for a beginner to classical music?



## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

I noticed that BBC Radio 3 has an award for "Building a Library" targeted at people new to classical music. What recordings would you put on your "essentials" list for a beginner collection? If you don't have a complete list, which recordings have you worked out would be on such a list?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Here's a quick list of 'library' symphony cycles (usually I'd recommend individual discs especially for Mahler) from the more popular composers. *These are not necessarily my favourites *(a few are) but are perfect starting points to explore whether you would prefer different approaches (eg. HIP, historical, digital, state-of-the-art sound, etc).

Beethoven - Blomstedt / Dresden or Karajan / BPO 63
Schubert - Davis / Dresden
Schumann - Sawallisch / Dresden
Bruckner - Jochum / Dresden
Brahms - Levine / Chicago
Shostakovich - Barshai / WDR SO
Mahler - Tennstedt / LPO
Dvorak - Rowicki / LSO
Mendelssohn - Sawallisch / Philharmonia
Sibelius - Berglund / Helsinki
Haydn - Fischer / Austro- Hungarian Haydn Orchestra
Mozart - Pinnock / ECO
Tchaikovsky - Muti / Philadelphia & Philharmonia

As I said, these are not necessarily my favourite cycles but are all excellent starting points to set up a basic library.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

None. It's up to the beginner to listen widely, decide what he likes, and follow that where it leads. No pieces (or performances) are "essential" to everyone.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I someone were to ask "where to begin", I'd tell them to get the EMI boxed set from Constantin Silvestri. It's range is wide, all of the performances are white-hot and the colorful music is a great entry into the world of classical music. There's one exception: throw away the disk with the Tchaikovsky 4th symphony. It staggers the imagination what the conductor was thinking in his bizarre interpretation of the motto rhythm. Other than that, a superb set.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

This definitely depends on budget. 

If you can spend up to $200, I think one of the box sets like "Karajan 1960s" or "Solti Chicago" are a great buy. You get several symphonic cycles, smaller concerti, waltzes, overtures, and lots of other famous pieces. Yes, you're locked in to one cunductor's style of interpretation, but I doubt most people really care about that more than having a wide selection of music.

If your budget is a bit more limited, I think the Karajan Symphony edition (~$65, 38 CDs) or the Andre Cluytens Complete Recordings (65 discs, $100) are great buys. The Karajan set in particular gives you an incredible selection of symphonies (Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Schumann complete cycles, partial Mozart and Haydn) for a low price with excellent sound quality. 

If someone is going in piecemeal and bit by bit, I think they should purchase a Beethoven cycle, a J. Strauss waltz collection, a Mozart Overtures or Eine Kleine Nachtmusik disc, a Bach Concerto set, perhaps a collection of Brahms string quartets/quintets,/sextets, maybe a variety of Overtures. Ultimately, though, one of the box sets is going to provide a much nicer foundation and variety that can then be branched out.

There's really never been a better time to be a beginning Classical Music fan. So many affordable box sets, and the ability to check out most everything first on YouTube.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

If you're a CD listener then there's never been a better time to buy 2nd hand CDs. You can get some incredible bargains on Ebay, amazon, etc. And those Guild sets you can download for a pound are ridiculously great value. You could probably buy the core repertoire for less than £30 (Morris' Beethoven cycle, Colorado Quartet's Beethoven complete string quartets, Abravanel's Mahler cycle, etc.) Don't know if they're still available but incredible bargains.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

If someone has streaming access, I'd say to check out the DG 111 Years box sets. They cover most of the basics, at least for orchestral works.


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## Antares (Feb 27, 2019)

MarkW said:


> None. It's up to the beginner to listen widely, decide what he likes, and follow that where it leads. No pieces (or performances) are "essential" to everyone.


I have to agree. I knew no one who listened to classical music when I first found the love for this style of music. I explored the genres, liking much, and dismissing what I didn't. And today, my tastes have held true to what I found, all those years ago. For me, classical music is like wine. I listen to what I like, as I drink what I like. I do enjoy recommendations from those who share the fascination, but it's not law to me.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

As a slight rebuttal to the view that beginners should listen widely and decide what they like, here's a list of works:

John Jefferies: Canon Howard's Church mice
Federico Ibarra Groth: Piano Sonata No. 2
Pierre Villette: Hymne à la Vierge
Jean-Baptiste Faure: O salutaris hostia
Charles Oberthur: Berceuse
Aleksandr Ivanovich Dubuque: Serenade
Ronald Shroyer: Quintet for Brass
Pietro Nardini: Violin Concerto in C Major, Op. 1, No. 2
Krzesimir Debski: New Romantic Expectation
Jessie Seymour Irvine: The Lord's my shepherd
Bengt Carlson: Violin Sonata in E-Flat Minor, Op. 6

I (roughly) randomly selected these from the Naxos Music Library. If I had nothing to go by, these would be as good choices as any. I've heard of one of these composers, but my guess is that most listeners would not enjoy these works nearly as much as recommended works. I think true beginners would benefit more from almost any set of recommendations (say the TC Top recommended works, 20 random selections from Dubal's Essential Canon, or similar lists). So, yes, I understand that we're all different, but I don't think we're that different. 

I'm not sure if the OP wanted to emphasize actual recordings rather than works. If so, I tend to agree that recommendations for recordings vary much more than recommendations for works, and I'm not convinced that specific recording recommendations strongly benefit beginners although maybe a list of recordings most identified as inferior could be helpful.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

mmsbls said:


> So, yes, I understand that we're all different, but I don't think we're that different.


In terms of musical preference, I think we are very different, and that's why I also do not favor a beginner essential library.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

A typical beginner essential library would not include Wagner's Gotterdammerung, and yet that was exactly the piece that got a friend of mine hooked. So much so that he planned a trip to attend a complete week-long Ring Cycle. The moral, there is no predicting what will catch someone's interest.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Everyone's tastes are different, but the mainstays of classical music linger because they are favored by a lot of people. They have a better than average chance of appealing to a new listener. If the traditional works are not working for someone, then they can go for something more atypical or random.


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## Rach Man (Aug 2, 2016)

My main preferences in classical music are symphonies and big orchestral pieces. If someone else is just starting out, listening to classical music and enjoys the same, I would suggest buying a very good used box set of _Gunter Wand - The Great Recordings_.

This box set has nearly all of the major symphonic and orchestral pieces that I would want to hear. You might be able to get better individual recordings. But for approximately $65, one could buy this 29 disc set and get some wonderful music. This is my absolute choice for the best bang for your buck in all of classical music.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Bulldog said:


> In terms of musical preference, I think we are very different, and that's why I also do not favor a beginner essential library.


I think we define "very different" very differently. If people truly had very different musical preferences, there would not be composers that the vast majority like. In Nereffid's polls, there are 31 composers liked by greater than 70% of TC members and 16 composers liked by more than 80% of TC members. In my view, that means we tend to have very similar preferences.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I would highly recommend downloading the complete Bach Guild box sets for $.99 each while they're still available-an instant library the major composers and their most famous works going back to the Baroque era-stirring performances at a rock bottom price and personal _ownership_ where it's possible to find what you're looking for. It's where I would have started if I had to do it all over again. Then one can expand into other recordings from these outstanding collections that give the lay of the broad CM landscape. Instant essentials. Then I would suggest getting a copy of _Lives of the Great Composers_ by Harold C Schonberg for an introduction to the history of the music. Sometimes one of the great pleasures in life is reading about the composers while listening to their music... The Vox box sets are also excellent downloads and dirt cheap if one is looking for an alternative to random streaming and its occasional interruptions of service.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

MatthewWeflen said:


> This definitely depends on budget.
> 
> If you can spend up to $200, I think one of the box sets like "Karajan 1960s" or "Solti Chicago" are a great buy. You get several symphonic cycles, smaller concerti, waltzes, overtures, and lots of other famous pieces. Yes, you're locked in to one cunductor's style of interpretation, but I doubt most people really care about that more than having a wide selection of music.
> 
> ...


Budget? What about streaming?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Some of the suggestions offered here are very symphony-oriented; also somewhat restricted as to time and nationality, and, as such, could perhaps stifle in the cradle the first stirrings of interest in classical music. My suggestion would be to submit a list of, say, 20 or 25 of the best-known composers from the period Bach to Bartok. Then, for each of these, submit a representative symphony or equivalent, likewise a concerto, and thirdly a chamber work. Besides the overrepresented Germans/Austrians I'd make sure Czechs, Russians, Hungarians, Spaniards, Italians, English, and surely French composers were well represented. Include ballet scores, some choral works, opera as appropriate. Spread out a large and varied buffet of well-known works rather than many, many helpings of the same genre. All the symphonies of Bruckner, Beethoven, Sibelius? I think not. Better Dvořák's seventh symphony, the violin concerto, and the American quartet. Or Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand, quartet, and Ma Mère l'Oye.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Budget? You can now build a very extensive library using big-box dollar-each downloads from Amazon, and have an extensive collection for way less than twenty bucks. It's ridiculous.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

radiodurans said:


> I noticed that BBC Radio 3 has an award for "Building a Library" targeted at people new to classical music. What recordings would you put on your "essentials" list for a beginner collection? If you don't have a complete list, which recordings have you worked out would be on such a list?


Just dive in their guidance, and see what you like, you be surprised by your own taste.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Triplets said:


> Budget? What about streaming?


Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service? I don't ask to be dismissive, the idea just seems shocking to me.

Or did you mean watching exclusively via YouTube? Ugh.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service? I don't ask to be dismissive, the idea just seems shocking to me.
> 
> Or did you mean watching exclusively via YouTube? Ugh.


When you go to a concert, you "stream" three or four pieces and spend a hundred bucks or so, all in. Maybe ten bucks a month for a broader streaming service isn't so bad!


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service?


Yes, it fits my needs quite well.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> Yes, it fits my needs quite well.


What service? How is it? I've read that all of the major services have a big problem with metadata and categorization, making it hard to find and listen to classical music.

I've always personally been temperamentally disinclined towards streaming music services, I prefer to own my music and to be able to listen to it an unlimited number of times, and I hate using cellular data.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

MatthewWeflen said:


> What service? How is it? I've read that all of the major services have a big problem with metadata and categorization, making it hard to find and listen to classical music.
> 
> I've always personally been temperamentally disinclined towards streaming music services, I prefer to own my music and to be able to listen to it an unlimited number of times, and I hate using cellular data.


The service I use is Naxos Music Library, and it's very good and dedicated to classical - very easy to find what you want. I can listen to the same work 24/7 if that was my regimen. Don't know about cellular data; I use my Mac.

NML is not my primary listening source; cd's are.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> The service I use is Naxos Music Library, and it's very good and dedicated to classical - very easy to find what you want. I can listen to the same work 24/7 if that was my regimen. Don't know about cellular data; I use my Mac.
> 
> NML is not my primary listening source; cd's are.


Oh. Sounds cool  I guess the last thing I had read indicated that Naxos was either very new or coming soon. Good to know they've arrived and are doing it well.


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service? I don't ask to be dismissive, the idea just seems shocking to me.
> 
> Or did you mean watching exclusively via YouTube? Ugh.


I do with the 'CD quality' Tidal subscription (typically FLAC). Fantastic to check out hundreds and hundreds of albums, composers, conductors, soloists, etc. I have not heard before. The quality is pretty good actually. Not bad at all. But, I also stream through a pretty high end DAC, so that probably helps as well.

I then decide if any of those selections will be purchased, in my case, mostly CD's. Some I May never purchase, but can always enjoy them.

Do I prefer the 'hard copy' of the music over my system? Absolutely, in most all cases, but streaming can be a great tool, and for some, all they need as a music collection. Tidal, and others, are also very easy to save favorites, and will show you similar orchestras, composers, soloists, etc you may want to check out, or who they may have been influenced by. Before you know it, in short order, you can have a fairly extensive personal library....and it keeps growing the more you use it.

I also purchase a year ticket of the Berliner Philharmonic (Digital Concert Hall) to watch on my home theater system when I want to watch live or recorded symphonies. They also have an extensive library of older works. A great service really, and I quite enjoy it, but not necessarily for 'critical' 2 channel listening. That said, it sounds pretty good, and sometimes it's nice to watch and listen.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

MatthewWeflen said:


> What service? How is it? I've read that all of the major services have a big problem with metadata and categorization, making it hard to find and listen to classical music.
> 
> I've always personally been temperamentally disinclined towards streaming music services, I prefer to own my music and to be able to listen to it an unlimited number of times, and I hate using cellular data.


I use Spotify (the paid for version)
Easy to search, for example this weeks Saturday Symphony Hanson No.3 took about 10 sec to find. Spotify was initially tricky to search as you had to put the full name of any work correctly to find it, but that has long ago changed so it searches like Google etc
The library is massive and has allowed me to explore widely and I would recommend this way for anyone starting out listening.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service? I don't ask to be dismissive, the idea just seems shocking to me.
> 
> Or did you mean watching exclusively via YouTube? Ugh.


Try Qobuz. Wide catalogue, excellent sound, and my house will hopefully stop resembling a CD Warehouse


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

MatthewWeflen said:


> What service? How is it? I've read that all of the major services have a big problem with metadata and categorization, making it hard to find and listen to classical music.
> 
> I've always personally been temperamentally disinclined towards streaming music services, I prefer to own my music and to be able to listen to it an unlimited number of times, and I hate using cellular data.


You can load most streaming services on a PC and not use data. If your primary listening source is your phone and you don't want to use data time and you can't log on to Wi Fi you can download the favorite tracks to the phone HD or a data card


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Triplets said:


> You can load most streaming services on a PC and not use data. If your primary listening source is your phone and you don't want to use data time and you can't log on to Wi Fi you can download the favorite tracks to the phone HD or a data card


I only stream with WiFi. When WiFi is not available, I listen to music already on my phone.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Some years ago, a friend asked me for tips to classical listening, so I made a spotify list...It ended up pretty long


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

What would your essential library look like for a beginner to classical music?
I'd have Treasure Island in there for sure. Huckleberry Finn, The Catcher In The Rye...


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

The illustrated books of Toy Music For Modern Children .


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

mmsbls said:


> I'm not sure if the OP wanted to emphasize actual recordings rather than works. If so, I tend to agree that recommendations for recordings vary much more than recommendations for works, and I'm not convinced that specific recording recommendations strongly benefit beginners although maybe a list of recordings most identified as inferior could be helpful.


Actual recordings I suppose was the intent. I wanted to keep the question open to see what ideas or tastes would be used in the selecting process or the selection itself.

I see more box sets than I was expecting, but makes complete sense if value comes into play. I view box sets v. picking up individual cd arguments a bit like arguing over zoom vs. prime lenses.

Box Sets are a great way to get a lot of music at once, and they do often have great documentation to learn about music.

I love and own the first two volumes of DG 111 years, but I'm not sure I'd personally recommend it for beginning to build a library.

I think if I were to include a box set in building a beginning library, I'd try to find a decent, affordable sampler such as EMI's:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-The...ost-Beautiful-Classical-Music/release/5130387

Also, something with legendary audio engineering such as The Mercury Living Presence Box Set.

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Mercury-Living-Presence-The-Collectors-Edition/release/3427556


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Some years ago, a friend asked me for tips to classical listening, so I made a spotify list...It ended up pretty long


I've done the same, also became longer then expected.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

radiodurans said:


> I see more box sets than I was expecting, but makes complete sense if value comes into play. I view box sets v. picking up individual cd arguments a bit like arguing over zoom vs. prime lenses.
> 
> Box Sets are a great way to get a lot of music at once, and they do often have great documentation to learn about music.


I've never found large box sets appealing. Yes, the monetary value is significant, but that's about it.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

For new listeners, I would mostly recommend box sets as a download. They can be played off one’s computer or a hard drive can be hooked up to one’s primary sound system. They can have great value, excellent though not CD sound quality, and they are invisible in storage space. Whatever documentation they don’t have can be supplemented in other ways by outside sources. A library of essentials means collecting the music itself as a way of accumulating a library and many of the basics. On the other hand, if finances or storage are not a problem, then the CD box sets are great but will mostly be sitting around collecting dust because one can’t hear everything at once.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

Larkenfield said:


> For new listeners, I would mostly recommend box sets as a download. They can be played off one's computer or a hard drive can be hooked up to one's primary sound system. They can have great value, excellent though not CD sound qualiy


How do you mean online downloads are less quality? You can download Lossless and HD Audio . . .and even if you download a lossy 256/320 mp3 it's debatable whether human ears can even tell the difference, especially people over 30. Box Sets also take up a lot of hard drive space lossless compressed. I think the Karajan complete one someone mentioned is like 240 CDs and around 70GB in lossless compression. I took a hearing test and with classical music I could tell the difference 7/10 times so I generally go lossless myself at Presto or wherever.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Dude, or Lady

Listen to the radio. It streams, it's free.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Dude, or Lady
> 
> Listen to the radio. It streams, it's free.


Which station do you suggest?


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

A personal beginner's set: 

Baroque piano: Rameau (Marcelle Meyer), Couperin (Tharaud), Scarlatti (various), Bach's Goldberg Variations (Gould), Well-Tempered Clavier (Tureck, Gould, Gulda, Richter), Art of Fugue (Rosen/Leonhardt 1969 on Harpsichord)
Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin (Szeryng 1955)

Mozart: piano concertos (Anda or Perahia box sets), major operas (highlights/vocal compilations)
Beethoven: piano sonatas (Gilels, Gulda, Pollini), middle and late string quartets (Takacs), symphonies (Karajan) 

Sviatoslav Richter playing Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Liszt, Schumann, Mussorgsky, Debussy, Scriabin, Shostakovich, and others
Rubinstein Chopin box set
Grieg: piano music (Gilels)
Debussy: Piano Music (Michelangeli)
Ravel: Piano Music, concertos (Michelangeli and others)
Rachmaninov: piano music and piano concertos 2-4 (various)
Satie: piano music (Ciccolini)
Sibelius symphonies (Karajan/Kamu)

Shostakovich: preludes and fugues (Nikolaeva/Melodiya), String Quartets (Fitzwilliam)
Stravinsky: symphonies (composer conducting/Boulez) and ballets (various)


It's a good-faith recommendation, though I know that for some listeners it would be a living hell! :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2019)

No harm in helping a "beginner" find some popular recordings. "Essential" may be overstating, but not by too much. It's all very well to say the novice should find his/her own way, but pointing them towards the generally well-regarded richer seams can't be a bad thing...can it?


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> No harm in helping a "beginner" find some popular recordings. "Essential" may be overstating, but not by too much. It's all very well to say the novice should find his/her own way, but pointing them towards the generally well-regarded richer seams can't be a bad thing...can it?


"Essential" is more of a marketing word of the BBC. I'm sure it would be difficult to find a consensus in classical music of albums that a new listener should hear when starting out, or have in his/her library as reference. Different University professors probably rarely have the same texts for their beginning course on a subject. However, by looking at the different suggestions, perhaps some patterns may emerge in what people ought to be exposed to when setting out.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2019)

Well, if a beginner wants to spend their entire listening lifetime toiling their way through the works of Hummel, Czerny, Segerstam, and Hovhaness, who am I to say they might try Bach, Beethoven or Mozart instead? Or listening to recordings only by the Czech National Symphony Orchestra and never try the Concertgebouw or the BPO?

It seems churlish not to suggest alternatives.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> Well, if a beginner wants to spend their entire listening lifetime toiling their way through the works of Hummel, Czerny, Segerstam, and Hovhaness, who am I to say they might try Bach, Beethoven or Mozart instead? Or listening to recordings only by the Czech National Symphony Orchestra and never try the Concertgebouw or the BPO?
> 
> It seems churlish not to suggest alternatives.


Not sure what you mean exactly. You may of course suggest alternatives as part of a foundation if you so wish. Since a beginner wouldn't have an entire lifetime under his/her belt, it's out of the scope of the question to suppose what they end up listening to over the course of a lifetime, unless you want to assume their collection will follow some normal distribution of albums. In that case, it will be highly unlikely that it will be composed significantly of Hummel, Czerny, Segerstam, and Hovhaness.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2019)

What I mean is that someone left to their own devices might never listen to composers or orchestras widely considered the best. My illustration was somewhat extreme, but I thought it would make the point more clearly.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> I've never found large box sets appealing. Yes, the monetary value is significant, but that's about it.


Expectation bias.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

radiodurans said:


> Which station do you suggest?


Whatever is local. If you do the online thing try Yourclassical.org. I listen locally to wicr and wbaa.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Whatever is local. If you do the online thing try Yourclassical.org. I listen locally to wicr and wbaa.


My local classical station doesn't have much variety, quite honestly. . . and it relies too heavily on harpsichord music. I can take small doses of harpsichord music , but it can drive me batty with my low tolerance for the instrument. Admittedly it is probably something genetic, as is my unusually high tolerance for bagpipes. Ill try the online one, thanks.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> What I mean is that someone left to their own devices might never listen to composers or orchestras widely considered the best. My illustration was somewhat extreme, but I thought it would make the point more clearly.


So if I read it correctly then, you might be afraid of a beginner getting hooked on some niche composer or performer without gaining a general knowledge of what is considered best. That could be a reason for selecting a list. I could also see giving a beginner, as part of their beginning library, 10 different versions of Beethoven's Emperor, so that they might start to think about the impact of performer, audio engineering, conductor, location, and orchestra on a given piece.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2019)

radiodurans said:


> So if I read it correctly then, you might be afraid of a beginner getting hooked on some niche composer or performer without gaining a general knowledge of what is considered best. That could be a reason for selecting a list. I could also see giving a beginner, as part of their beginning library, 10 different versions of Beethoven's Emperor, so that they might start to think about the impact of performer, audio engineering, conductor, location, and orchestra on a given piece.


Yes...though 'afraid' is putting it a bit strongly! All I'm saying is that, contrary to those saying you should look and explore for yourself, there's no harm in others offering some ideas.

After all, given the number of lists compiled on TC alone, there's more than enough agreement on what many people have, over the last, say, 300 years, found worthwhile, from Bach to Birtwhistle, Scarlatti to Sibelius etc.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll make a rough draft before peeking at other people's choices:


Adams: Nixon in China - DeWaart 
Albeniz: "Echoes of Spain" - Williams 
Albeniz: Iberia; Granados: Goyescas - Larrocha (Decca 1973, 1977) 
Albinoni, Pachelbel, etc. - Orpheus Chamber Orchestra 
Allegri: Miserere; Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli - Tallis Scholars 2007 
Bach: Art of Fugue, Musical Offering - Munchinger 
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites - Richter 
Bach: Cello Suites - Casals 
Bach: Goldberg Variations - Gould 1981 (Sony; the 1955 would be later)
Bach: Mass in B minor - Richter 1963 
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra, etc. - Reiner 
Beethoven: Piano Concertos - Barenboim, Klemperer 
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas - Kempff 
Beethoven: String Quartets - Alban Berg Q (1978-83) 
Beethoven: Symphonies 5 & 7 - Kleiber 
Beethoven: Symphonies - Karajan 1963 
Beethoven: Violin Concerto - Perlman, Giulini 
Beethoven: Violin Sonatas 5 & 9 - Perlman, Ashkenazy 
Beethoven, Mendelssohn: Violin Concertos - Heifetz, Munch 
Berg, Stravinsky: Violin Concertos - Perlman, Ozawa 
Berlioz: Symphonie fanastique - Davis 
Biber: Rosary (Mystery) Sonatas - Manze 
Bizet: Carmen - Levine (DVD) 
Boulez: Le Marteau sans Maitre - Boulez (2002) 
Brahms: Cello sonatas - Rostropovich, Serkin 
Brahms: Ein Deutsches Requiem - Klemperer 
Brahms: Piano Trios - Katchen, Suk, Starker 
Brahms: Symphonies, etc. - Klemperer 
Brahms, Tchaikovsky: Violin Concertos - Heifetz, Reiner 
Brahms: Violin Sonatas - Perlman, Ashkenazy 
Britten: War Requiem - Pears, Britten 
Bruch: Violin Concerto, Scottish etc. - Chung 
Chopin: Nocturnes - Rubinstein 
Chopin: Waltzes - Rubinstein 
Crumb: Black Angels; Shostakovich: String Quartet #8 - Kronos Quartet
Debussy: La Mer, Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun - Paray 
Dvorak: Cello Concerto; Tchaikovsky - Rostropovich, Karajan 
Dvorak: Symphonies #8 & 9 - Kubelik 
Elgar: Cello Concerto, etc. - Du Pré (EMI) 
Faure, Durufle: Requiems - Shaw 
Feldman: Rothko Chapel, etc. - California EAR Unit 
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue; Barber: Adagio; Copland: Appalachian Spring - Bernstein 
Gorecki: Symphony of Sorrowful Songs - Zinman 
Grieg: Lyric Pieces - Gilels 
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites; Sibelius: Finlandia - Karajan 
Grieg, Schumann: Concertos - Kovacevich 
Handel: Giulio Cesare - Glyndebourne (DVD) 
Handel: Messiah - Hogwood 
Handel: Water Music, Fireworks - Marriner 
Haydn: London Symphonies - Davis 
Haydn: String Quartets, op. 76 - Quatuor Mosaiques 
Hildegard: "A Feather on the Breath of God" - Gothic Voices 
Holst: The Planets - Dutoit 
Janacek: Glagolitic Mass; Kodaly: Psalmus Hungaricus - Mackerras 
Kodaly: "Starker Plays Kodaly" 
Ligeti: Works for piano - Aimard 
Liszt: Piano Concertos - Richter 
Liszt: Piano Sonata, etc. - Zimerman 
Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde - Klemperer 
Mahler: Symphonies - Bernstein on Sony (2009 remastering) 
Mendelssohn: Octet - Marriner 
Mendelssohn: Songs Without Words - Barenboim 
Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du Temps - Tashi 
Monteverdi: Madrigals, Book 8 - Venexiana 
Monteverdi: L'Orfeo - Savall (DVD) 
Monteverdi: Vespers - Parrott 
Mozart: Don Giovanni - Giulini 
Mozart: Don Giovanni - Levine (DVD) 
Mozart: Piano Concertos #20 & 21 - Gulda 
Mozart: Requiem - Marriner (1990) 
Mozart: Symphonies 35-41 - Bohm 
Murail: Gondwana - Rickenbacker, etc. 
Mussorgsky: Pictures, etc. - Reiner 
Nono: Como una ola de fuerza y lux, etc. - Pollini 
Orff: Carmina Burana - Jochum 
Part: Tabula Rasa, etc. - Kremer 
Penderecki: Threnody, etc. - Wit (Naxos) 
Perotin - The Hilliard Ensemble 
Pettersson: Symphonies 7 & 11 - Segerstam 
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky Suite, etc. - Abbado 
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #5; Sonata #8 - Richter 
Puccini: Turandot - Mehta 
Purcell: Odes - Pinnock 
Rachmaninoff: PC #2; Tchaikovsky: PC #1 - Van Cliburn 
Rachmaninoff: PC #3; Tchaikovsky: PC #1 - Argerich 
Ravel: Daphne et Chloe - Monteaux 
Ravel, Debussy, Faure: String Quartets - Quatuor Ebene 
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians (EMI) 
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Gergiev 
Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez, etc. - Romero, Marriner 
Rzewski: The People United Will Never Be Defeated - Drury 
Satie: Gymnopedies, etc. - Roge 
Scarlatti: Sonatas - Pinnock 
Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire - Boulez 
Schubert: Trout Quintet; SQ 14 "Death & the Maiden" - Gilels, Amadeus SQ 
Schubert: Winterreisse - DFD, Demus 
Schumann: Dichterliebe, etc. - Wunderlich, Geisen 
Schumann: Frauenliebe und leben - Von Otter 
Shostakovich: Concertos - Oistrakh, Rostropovich 
Shostakovich: Symphony 10 - Karajan (1982) 
Smetana: Ma Vlast - Kubelik 1991 
Stockhausen: Gruppen - Eotvos 
Stockhausen: Stimmung - Singcircle 
Strauss: "New Year's Concert 1989" - Kleiber (DVD) 
Strauss: Zarathustra, Don Juan, 4 Last Songs, Metamorphosen etc. - Karajan 
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring, Petrouchka - Ozawa 
Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Webern, Boulez - Pollini 
Takemitsu: From Me Flows What You Call Time, etc. - St. Clair (Sony) 
Tallis: Spem in Alium, etc. - Tallis Scholars 
Tchaikovsky: 1812, etc. - Dorati 
Tchaikovsky: Ballet Suites - Rostropovich 
Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker - Baryshnikov (DVD) 
Vaughan Williams: Greensleeves, Lark Ascending, etc. - Marriner 
Verdi: Otello - Levine (DVD) 
Verdi: Traviata - Callas, Giulini 
Vivaldi: The Four Seasons, etc. - Marriner 
Wagner: Ring - Levine (DVD) 
Wagner: Ring - Solti 
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde - Bohm 
Webern: Passacaglia; Schoenberg: Variations, etc. - Karajan 
Zelenka: Trio Sonatas - Holliger 

I'm sure there are a few dozen omissions but that's a good rough draft.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> I'm sure there are a few dozen omissions but that's a good rough draft.


It is a good list with a couple of exceptions - all the Bach entries are modern instruments, and there's no Shostakovich.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> It is a good list with a couple of exceptions - all the Bach entries are modern instruments, and there's no Shostakovich.


I don't think I will fix the Bach omission - I kind of believe in hearing the old classics in the old way, since the Boomers' experience is supposed to be definitive - but I've put in some other HIPPI recordings.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

science said:


> Mozart: Piano Concertos #20 & 21 - Gulda


Good choice - it's a fantastic recording.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Upon reading Science's very complete list, I reflect upon the absence of works by Borodin, Hovhaness, Khachaturian, Poulenc, Martinů, Respighi, Sibelius, and Walton, and think I'd pine without hearing their works. I also think they too might be very effective in drawing people into classical music--they surely worked for me.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

radiodurans said:


> My local classical station doesn't have much variety, quite honestly. . . and it relies too heavily on harpsichord music. I can take small doses of harpsichord music , but it can drive me batty with my low tolerance for the instrument. Admittedly it is probably something genetic, as is my unusually high tolerance for bagpipes. Ill try the online one, thanks.


I am the same way about harpsichord. 
Try the Performance Today program on your classical.Org, I have discovered many wonderful works through that program. It covers all era's of classical and is fun and informative.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I think this exercise is fun, even though streaming services have rendered it obsolete. I've chosen a list of 15 CDs, with an eye toward breadth:

Paul Hillier & Theatre of Voices - Fragments
Tallis & Byrd - Cantiones Sacrae, Alamire
Bach - Cantatas BWV 147 and 21, Suzuki
Mozart - Piano concertos 23 & 24, Uchida w/ Jeffrey Tate
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9, Karajan 1962
Chopin - Nocturnes, Tamas Vasary
Brahms - Symphony No. 4, Kleiber
Mahler - Symphony No. 4, Szell
Prokofiev/Ravel - Piano Concerto No. 3/Piano Concerto in G, Argerich
Berg - Lulu Suite/3 Pieces, Abbado
Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (either recording with his ensemble)
Takemitsu - From me flows what you call Time.../Twill by Twilight/Requiem, St. Clair
Gubaidulina - Canticle of the Sun, Rostropovich
Dutilleux - Correspondances/Tout un monde lointain, Salonen
Chin - Violin Concerto/Rocana, Nagano


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Does anyone here seriously stream classical music with a subscription service? I don't ask to be dismissive, the idea just seems shocking to me.
> 
> Or did you mean watching exclusively via YouTube? Ugh.


Well, the idea of actually purchasing physical CDs would be a shocking idea to pretty much everyone of my generation. Recommending to someone that they spend hundreds of dollars on a single box-set of a single conductor as an introduction to the entire genre of classical music when you can spend 10 dollars and gain access to >1000x the volume and diversity of recordings via Spotify (or just type in a few names and listen to the pieces you want on youtube) sounds hopelessly luddite to be honest.

When people ask me how to get into classical I give them a few youtube links to some of the most popular pieces: Kleiber's Beethoven 5/7, Chopin's nocturnes, Bartok's string quartets, the Goldberg Variations, Mozart's piano concertos 20&21.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> Upon reading Science's very complete list, I reflect upon the absence of works by Borodin, Hovhaness, Khachaturian, Poulenc, Martinů, Respighi, Sibelius, and Walton, and think I'd pine without hearing their works. I also think they too might be very effective in drawing people into classical music--they surely worked for me.


Those are all good composers of course; Martinu is my favorite from that list. I considered putting several works by Sibelius and Respighi in.... It's long already for an "essential beginner's library."

If I were adding more, I'd probably put in a bit more opera, especially classical and romantic opera, followed by Machaut and some more Renaissance composers (Byrd and Josquin most of all, also Dufay, Ockeghem). I don't know what part of my body I need to sacrifice to get people to stop ignoring the Renaissance. Anyway, then it'd be Bartok, more Debussy and Ravel; Babbitt, Cage, Nancarrow, Xenakis; Haydn's Creation, late masses, and more of his symphonies and string quartets; more Schubert and Mendelssohn and Schumann. About then I'd get to Sibelius as well as Bruckner and more Shostakovich. About then probably Respighi and Borodin, also Szymanowski, Hindemith, more Fauré, Wolf....

How deep do we go before it stops being a beginner's list?


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## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

If I had to pick 15 pieces to introduce somebody to orchestral classical music, I would concentrate on mostly revered old warhorses. There is a reason they are so beloved. The big tunes and exciting rhythms will suck the listener in and perhaps inspire them to branch out to more pieces by these composers and to less famous composers/pieces. So, in no particular order:

Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
Beethoven: Symphony 6
Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
Bartok: Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Brahms: Symphony 4
Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto
Sibelius: Swan of Tuonela
Mendelssohn: A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ravel: Bolero
Wagner: Ring Orchestral Excerpts 
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 3
Rachmaninov: Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue
Holst: The Planets

Cheating with one more: Debussy: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Bill Cooke said:


> If I had to pick 15 pieces to introduce somebody to orchestral classical music, I would concentrate on mostly revered old warhorses. There is a reason they are so beloved. The big tunes and exciting rhythms will suck the listener in and perhaps inspire them to branch out to more pieces by these composers and to less famous composers/pieces. So, in no particular order:
> 
> Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
> ...


A fine, practical list. I--like anyone else--would make some substitutions but will not pursue that urge. But I would suggest increasing the count to 20 so as to include pre-Beethoven classics such as Vivaldi Four Seasons, Mozart, Bach, Handel, even a bit of Schubert (clearly post-Beethoven).


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Gramophone's suggested basic library:

Gramophone -- Suggested Basic Library
ORCHESTRAL

Bach - Brandenburg Concertos
Bach - Concerto for two violins
Bach - Orchestral Suites
Barber - Adagio for strings

Bartók - Concerto for Orchestra
Bartók - Miraculous Mandarin
Bartók - Violin Concerto No 2
Beethoven - Complete symphonies
Beethoven - Piano Concertos Nos 4 and 5
Beethoven - Violin Concerto
Berg - Violin Concerto
Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique
Brahms - Complete symphonies
Brahms - Piano Concerto No 1
Brahms - Violin Concerto
Britten - Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra
Bruch - Violin Concerto No 1
Bruckner - Symphonies Nos 4, 5, 8 and 9
Chopin - Piano Concertos
Copland - Appalachian Spring
Copland - Fanfare for the Common Man
Corelli - 12 Concerti grossi, Op 6
Delibes - Coppélia
Debussy - Jeux
Debussy - La mer
Debussy - Prélude à après-midi d'un faune
Dvôrák - Cello Concerto
Dvôrák - Symphony No 9
Elgar - Cello Concerto
Elgar - Enigma Variations
Elgar - String music
Elgar - Symphonies Nos 1 and 2
Elgar - Violin Concerto
Falla - Noches en los jardines de España
Górecki - Symphony No 3
Grieg - Peer Gynt Suite
Grieg - Piano Concerto
Handel - Fireworks Music
Handel - Water Music
Haydn - Cello Concerto in C
Haydn - London Symphonies
Haydn - Trumpet Concerto
Holst - The Planets
Ives - Three Places in New England
Mahler - Symphonies Nos 5 and 9
Mendelssohn - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Mendelssohn - Hebrides Overture
Mendelssohn - Symphony No 4, "Italian"
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
Messiaen - Turangalîla Symphony
Mozart - Clarinet Concerto
Mozart - Horn Concerto No 4
Mozart - Piano Concertos Nos 20-27
Mozart - Serenade for 13 Winds
Mozart - Symphonies Nos 40 and 41
Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition
Pärt - Tabula rasa
Prokofiev - Lieutenant Kijé
Prokofiev - Peter and the Wolf
Prokofiev - Piano Concerto No 3
Prokofiev - Romeo and Juliet
Prokofiev - Symphonies Nos 1 and 5
Rachmaninov - Paganini Rhapsody
Rachmaninov - Piano Concertos Nos 2 and 3
Rachmaninov - Symphony No 2
Ravel - Boléro
Ravel - Daphnis et Chloé
Ravel - Piano Concerto in G
Respighi - Roman Triology
Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade
Rodrigo - Concierto de Aranjuez
Rossini - Overtures
Saint-Saëns - Le carnaval des animaux
Saint-Saëns - Piano Concerto No 2
Saint-Saëns - Symphony No 3
Schoenberg - Five Orchestral Pieces, Op 16
Schoenberg - Variations for Orchestra, Op 31
Schubert - Symphony No 8, "Unfinished"
Schumann - Piano Concerto
Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No 1
Shostakovich - Piano Concerto No 2
Shostakovich - Symphonies Nos 5 and 10
Sibelius - Finlandia
Sibelius - Symphonies Nos 2 and 5
Sibelius - Tapiola
Sibelius - Violin Concerto
Smetana - Má vlast
Strauss J II - Waltzes
Strauss R - Eine Alpine Symphony
Strauss R - Also sprach Zarathustra
Strauss R - Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche
Stravinsky - Agon
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
Stravinsky - The Firebird
Tchaikovsky - Romeo and Juliet
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture
Tchaikovsky - Ballets: The Nutcracker, Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake
Tchaikovsky - Piano concerto No 1
Tchaikovsky - Symphonies Nos 4-6
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
Vaughan Williams - Symphony No 2, "London"
Vaughan Williams - Symphony No 5
Vaughan Williams - Tallis Fantasia
Vaughan Williams - The Lark Ascending
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Walton - Violin and Viola Concertos

CHAMBER 


Bartók - String Quartets
Beethoven - Piano Trio in B flat op 97, "Archduke"
Beethoven - Late String Quartets
Beethoven - Violin Sonatas
Borodin - String Quartet No 2
Brahms - Clarinet Quintet
Debussy - Sonata for Flute, Viola & Harp
Debussy - String Quartet
Dvôrák - String Quartet No 12
Franck - Violin Sonata
Haydn - String Quartets, Opp 20 & 76
Mendelssohn - Octet
Mozart - Clarinet Quintet
Mozart - String Quartet in C K465, "Dissonance"
Mozart - String Quintet in G minor, K516
Ravel - String Quartet
Reich - Different Trains
Schubert - Piano Quintet, "Trout"
Schubert - Piano Trios
Schubert - Arpeggione Sonata in A minor, D821
Schubert - String Quartet No 14
Schubert - String Quintet
Shostakovich - String Quartet No 8

INSTRUMENTAL
Bach - Cello Suites
Bach - Das Wohltemperierte Klavier
Bach - Goldberg Variations
Bach - Solo Violin Sonatas and Partitas
Beethoven - Complete piano sonatas
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations
Biber - Mystery Sonatas
Brahms - Variations on a Theme of Paganini
Chopin - Nocturnes
Chopin - Piano Sonata No 2
Chopin - Preludes
Debussy - Childern's Corner
Debussy - Préludes
Grieg - Lyric Pieces
Haydn - Piano Sonata E flat major, HobXVI/52
Liszt - Piano Sonata
Mozart - Piano Sonata No 11 in A, K311
Paganini - 24 Caprices
Prokofiev - Piano Sonata no 7
Ravel - Gaspard de la nuit
Satie - Piano works
Schubert - Impromptus
Schubert - Piano Sonata in B flat, D960
Schubert - Wandererfantasie
Schumann - Carnaval
Schumann - Kinderszenen
Schumann - Kreiserleriana

VOCAL
Allegri - Miserere
Bach - Cantatas 82 & 140
Bach - Magnificat
Bach - Mass in B minor
Bach - St Matthew Passion
Beethoven - Missa solemnis
Berlioz - Grande messe des morts
Berlioz - L'enfance du Christ
Berlioz - Les nuits d'été
Bernstein - West Side Story
Brahms - Ein deutsches Requiem
Britten - Serenade
Britten - War Requiem
Bruckner - Motets
Byrd - Masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices
Canteloube - Chants d'Auvergne
Duruflé - Requiem
Elgar - The Dream of Gerontius
Fauré - Requiem
Handel - Coronation Anthems
Handel - Dixit Dominus
Handel - Messiah
Haydn - Nelson Mass
Haydn - The Creation
Howells - Hymnus Paradisi
Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde
Mahler - Kindertotenlieder
Mendelssohn - Elijah
Monteverdi - 1610 Vespers
Monteverdi - Madrigals, Book 8
Mozart - Mass in C minor
Mozart - Requiem
Orff - Carmina burana
Palestrina - Missa Papae Marcelli
R. Strauss - Four Last Songs
Rachmaninov - Vespers
Ravel - Schéhérazade
Schubert - Winterreise
Schumann - Dichterliebe
Tallis - Spem in alium
Vaughan Williams - Serenade to Music
Verdi - Requiem
Vivaldi - Gloria in D, RV589
Walton - Belshazzar's Feast

OPERA, OPERETTA & STAGE WORKS

Bartók - Duke Bluebeard's Castle
Beethoven - Fidelio
Bellini - Norma
Berg - Wozzeck
Bizet - Carmen
Bizet - Les pêcheurs de perles
Britten - Peter Grimes
Britten - Turn of the Screw
Debussy - Pelléas et Mélisande
Gershwin - Porgy and Bess
Gluck - Orfeo ed Euridice
Handel - Alcina
Handel - Giulio Cesare
Handel - Rinaldo
Jenácek - The Cunning Little Vixen
Lehár - Die lustige Witwe
Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
Mascagni - Cavalleria rusticana
Monteverdi - L'Orfeo
Mozart - Die Zauberflöte
Mozart - Don Giovanni
Mozart - Le nozze di Figaro
Mussorgsky - Boris Godunov
Puccini - La Bohème
Puccini - Madama Butterfly
Puccini - Tosca
Puccini - Turandot
R Strauss - Rosenkavalier
Rossini - Il barbiere di Siviglia
Strauss J II - Die Fledermaus
Sullivan - The Pirates of Penzance
Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin
Verdi - Aida
Verdi - Il trovatore
Verdi - La traviata
Verdi - Otello
Verdi - Rigoletto
Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen
Wagner - Tristan und Isolde
Weber - Der Freischütz


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## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> A fine, practical list. I--like anyone else--would make some substitutions but will not pursue that urge. But I would suggest increasing the count to 20 so as to include pre-Beethoven classics such as Vivaldi Four Seasons, Mozart, Bach, Handel, even a bit of Schubert (clearly post-Beethoven).


I agree with you! Four Seasons, especially, would be a wonderful introductory piece.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The Gramophone Suggested Basic Library both stretches the definition of basic to near rupture, and contains some strange eccentricities of taste (but wouldn't we all think that?).


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

isorhythm said:


> I think this exercise is fun, even though streaming services have rendered it obsolete. I've chosen a list of 15 CDs, with an eye toward breadth:
> 
> Paul Hillier & Theatre of Voices - Fragments
> Tallis & Byrd - Cantiones Sacrae, Alamire
> ...


As a classical musician and college instructor, I taught numerous music appreciation classes and created beginner's list for at least twenty friends through the years. Beginners (with *extremely few* exceptions) had/have no interest in vocal music and any type of 20th/21st century music except the most accessible, e.g., Vaughan Williams. A person new to classical music will have trouble with most, if not all, of your list from Prokofiev (if not Mahler) to Chin, along with your pre-Mozart vocal music selections. Bach cantatas for a beginner and not the Brandenburgs? No way.

Check the lists made by Bill Cooke and CnCBarktok's Gramophone's suggested basic library list. They both have problems but they are LOGICAL.

Strange Magic's suggestions to improve Cooke's list are spot on: "…I would suggest increasing the count to 20 so as to include pre-Beethoven classics such as Vivaldi Four Seasons, Mozart, Bach, Handel, even a bit of Schubert (clearly post-Beethoven)." Beginners almost invariably respond positively to the melodic and rhythmic vibrancy of Baroque music. Add the Four Seasons, Bach's Brandenburgs, Handel's Water Music. And some Mozart (Eine Kleine Nachtmusik) and Schubert (Fifth Symphony).

As for the Gramaphone list, as Strange Magic stated, it "stretches the definition of basic to near rupture" but virtually all the choices are excellent. And it has an excellent sampling of pre-18th century music. Some of the 20th century music might be a problem for beginners.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Bill Cooke said:


> If I had to pick 15 pieces to introduce somebody to orchestral classical music, I would concentrate on mostly revered old warhorses. There is a reason they are so beloved. The big tunes and exciting rhythms will suck the listener in and perhaps inspire them to branch out to more pieces by these composers and to less famous composers/pieces. So, in no particular order:
> 
> Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
> ...


I like that your choices are 19th - 20th century, including a good deal of ambitious works.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

joen_cph said:


> I like that your choices are 19th - 20th century, including a good deal of *ambitious works.*


Ambitious works seldom work for beginners. But I grant you that Cooke's choices of Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring and Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta make complete sense from a "basic library" perspective. They are absolutely necessary. Whether beginners will like them is another story.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Bill Cooke said:


> If I had to pick 15 pieces to introduce somebody to orchestral classical music, I would concentrate on mostly revered old warhorses. There is a reason they are so beloved. The big tunes and exciting rhythms will suck the listener in and perhaps inspire them to branch out to more pieces by these composers and to less famous composers/pieces. So, in no particular order:
> 
> Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
> ...


Time-period wise, this is a highly restrictive list that will give the beginner the notion that earlier music is not worth bothering with. Also, there's nothing that is relatively recent either.

I have not seen a list on this thread that doesn't have a significant dose of personal preference.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

ArsMusica said:


> Ambitious works seldom work for beginners.


There are several layers in that list, including the simple Bolero, the Pastorale, and the catchy Mussorgsky (piano version) and Prokofiev 3rd etc.. Depends on the listener, but people with a broad, developed musical taste will hardly fall for the most naive, sugary lollipops. Classical music suffers too much from that widely popular image of it.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

joen_cph said:


> There are several layers in that list, including the simple Bolero and the catchy Mussorgsky (piano version). Depends on the listener, but people with a broad, developed musical taste will hardly fall for the most naive, sugary lollipops.


Please explain how a beginner to classical music can have "a broad, developed musical taste"?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

When I was green as grass to classical music I read Martin Bookspan's "101 Masterpieces Of Music and Their Composers," a book intended for beginners where he discussed the music and recordings he liked. It included:

Bach Brandenburg Concertos, Chaconne S. 1004 and Magnificat
Bartok Concerto for Orchestra
Beethoven Symphonies 1-9, Piano Concertos 3-5, Piano Sonata 14 "Moonlight", Violin Concerto, "Archduke" Trio No. 6
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique and Harold in Italy
Bizet Symphony 1
Brahms Violin, Violin-Cello and Piano concertos Nos. 1 and 2, Symphonies 1-4
Bruckner Symphonies 4 and 7
Chopin Piano Concerto 2 and Waltzes
Copland Billy the Kid and Rodeo
Debussy Iberia and La Mer
Dvorak Cello Concerto, Symphonies 7-9
Elgar Enigma variations
Franck Sonata in A for violin and piano, Symphony in D minor
Gershwin An American In Paris, Concerto in F for piano, Rhapsody in Blue
Grieg Piano Concerto
Handel Messiah and Water Music
Haydn Symphonies 94, 101 and 104
Liszt Piano Concerto No. 1
Mahler Symphonies 1, 4 and 9
Mendelssohn Violin Concerto, Symphonies 3 and 4
Mussorgsky Pictures At An Exhibition
Mozart Piano Concerto 20, Quintet K. 581, Sinfonia Concertante K. 364, Symphonies 35, 39-41
Prokofiev Peter and the Wolf, Symphony 5
Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos 2 and 3
Ravel Daphnis and Chloe
Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade
St. Saens Carnival of the Animals, Symphony 3
Schubert "Trout" quintet, Quintet in C D. 959, Symphonies 8 and 9
Schumann Cello and Piano concertos, Symphony 1
Shostakovich Symphonies 1 and 5
Sibelius Symphonies 1, 2 and 5
Smetana The Moldau
Richard Strauss Don Juan and Til Eulenspiegel
Stravinsky Petrushka and Le Sacre du Printemps
Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1, Violin concerto, The Nutcracker, Serenade for Strings, Symphonies 4-6
Vivaldi The Four Seasons

I realize reading a book is now considered old fashioned but I wonder where I would have gotten without this one...or the hundreds of others I read along the way since 1970. If you are new to music and want more but don't know where to go I say read a book about it.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

ArsMusica said:


> Please explain how a beginner to classical music can have "a broad, developed musical taste"?


Some won't, but most consumers, including the younger ones, are confronted with a lot of very different music these days - pop, rock, folk, various ethnic traditions, movie music, jazz. At least this applies to my surroundings. The impetus to want to now a little more about classical music would in itself suggests some open-mindedness.

A lot of the younger audience rejects classical music because of its reputation for sugary self-complacency.

Bartok's piano concertos were among those works I quickly began to like, along with Beethoven's symphonies and Bolero, btw.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

larold said:


> When I was green as grass to classical music I read Martin Bookspan's "101 Masterpieces Of Music and Their Composers" where he discussed the music and recordings he liked. It included:
> 
> Bach Brandenburg Concertos, Chaconne S. 1004 and Magnificat
> Bartok Concerto for Orchestra'
> ...


An excellent and logical list.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Btw, a sad and unjust state of things for Carl Nielsen, so far.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> Time-period wise, this is a highly restrictive list that will give the beginner the notion that earlier music is not worth bothering with. Also, there's nothing that is relatively recent either.
> 
> *I have not seen a list on this thread that doesn't have a significant dose of personal preference.*


And virtually all of the personal preferences are either inaccessible 20th/21st century music or relatively obscure pre-20th century music.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> Btw, a sad and unjust state of things for Carl Nielsen, so far.


He's likely on beginner lists from Danish sources.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

There's an increased tendency among Nielsen researchers to apply his art to the international scene and thus make him a more international figure, less a purely Danish one. So far, he's mainly been really popular in Scandinavia and the UK through the years, however. Obviously, there are exceptions, such as Furtwängler conducting his 5th, Bernstein and other conductors' interest, and NYPO recently recording a cycle, gradually increased attention in music magazines, etc..


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Martin Bookspan's list is far more realistic and usable than the Gramophone enormity, IMO.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2019)

As suggestions emerge, I'm beginning to think that "beginners" and "essential" imply different things. I wouldn't dream of suggesting that a beginner consider the Gramophone list - even though no two beginners are the same. But I can see how it might satisfy someone compiling a list of essential works - even though we might not agree on all that is on the list.

I like Bill Cooke's list as ideal for a beginner.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

MacLeod said:


> As suggestions emerge, I'm beginning to think that "beginners" and "essential" imply different things. I wouldn't dream of suggesting that a beginner consider the Gramophone list - even though no two beginners are the same. But I can see how it might satisfy someone compiling a list of essential works - even though we might not agree on all that is on the list.
> 
> I like Bill Cooke's list as ideal for a beginner.


Funny you wrote this as this was just what I was thinking, i.e., the difference between 'beginner' and 'essential'. Your post is spot on.

Bill Cooke's is very good for a beginner...it just needs the SM/AM additions (Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Mozart and Schubert). 

The Gramophone list is an excellent essential list.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Not to be picky but Gramophone says it is a "suggested basic library," not an essential list of recordings.

I have a hard time thinking of Stravinsky's Agon as essential. I also have a hard time understanding how anyone can think that ballet better than Khachaturian's Spartacus or Gayane, neither of which are listed.

There's a lot of good stuff there but this is just the first of scores of holes I'd poke in it.

I'd also suggest you take a look at the name of this forum question, to paraphrase what is essential...for a beginner.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

larold said:


> Not to be picky but Gramophone says it is a "suggested basic library," not an essential list of recordings.
> 
> I have a hard time thinking of Stravinsky's Agon as essential. I also have a hard time understanding how anyone can think that ballet better than Khachaturian's Spartacus or Gayane, neither of which are listed.
> 
> ...


This directed toward me?

If so, here is my response:

First, from my perspective a "suggested basic library" and an "essential list of recordings" are virtually the same thing. If you disagree, well, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Second, I believe I made it clear in previous posts I fully understand the difference between a beginner list and an essential list. *Between dealing with hundreds of beginners in the music appreciation courses I taught and numerous personal friends I have helped with selecting classical music, I have an excellent idea of which pieces to recommend.* I would never give the Gramophone list to a beginner.

That said, I said it is an excellent 'essential' list. Perfect, no…excellent, yes. I grant there are problems with it…the main problem being with some of the less well-known and frankly less important works such as the Walton concertos, Howells' Hymnus Paradisi and possibly Elgar's The Dream of Gerontius. These I think are a manifestation of a not surprising English bias. I would also toss West Side Story…that is Broadway not classical music.

And there are, of course, omissions. I would add Schumann's Third Symphony and a few other works.

If your post was not directed towards me, my apologies.


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## Rach Man (Aug 2, 2016)

Bill Cooke said:


> If I had to pick 15 pieces to introduce somebody to orchestral classical music, I would concentrate on mostly revered old warhorses. There is a reason they are so beloved. The big tunes and exciting rhythms will suck the listener in and perhaps inspire them to branch out to more pieces by these composers and to less famous composers/pieces. So, in no particular order:
> 
> Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
> Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
> ...


This is a great list for the beginner. This is filled with wonderful, enjoyable classical music. There are pieces that will not alienate, but also, pieces that will instill curiosity, should the listener want to continue his/her journey through classical music.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_I'm beginning to think that "beginners" and "essential" imply different things._

That's because they are different. Beginning is starting or fundamental, essential casts a value of importance. Look in any dictionary and the difference will be obvious.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

OK, the most recent discussion has me rethinking this as a list of pieces for absolute beginners. Here goes, alphabetically:

Bach Concerto No. 3 in G major BWM 1048
Beethoven Symphony No. 5
Brahms Symphony No. 1
Copland Appalachian Spring
Dvorak Symphony No. 9
Grieg Peer Gynt Suites
Haydn Symphony No. 96
Holst The Planets
Mahler Symphony No. 9
Mendelssohn Symphony No. 3
Mozart Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Rossini William Tell Overture
Sibelius Symphony No. 7
Schumann Symphony No. 4
Schubert Symphony No. 8 Unfinished
J. Strauss An Der Schonen Blauen Donau
R. Strauss Metamorphosen
Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6
Vivaldi Le Quattro Stagioni
Wagner Tannhauser Overture

I've tried to include different eras, popular greats that people will recognize from having heard other places, and one piece per composer. The attempt here would be to expose a beginner to a wide variety to be built upon once they got into it, but not turn them off with something inaccessible.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2019)

larold said:


> _I'm beginning to think that "beginners" and "essential" imply different things._
> 
> That's because they are different. Beginning is starting or fundamental, essential casts a value of importance. Look in any dictionary and the difference will be obvious.


Thanks larold. It's not my sense of English that is deficient: I'm well able to distinguish between the meanings of the words, as well as look them up in a dictionary.

My point was to observe that the OP's request for "an essential beginner's library" was receiving responses which illustrate that whilst we all get the gist of what was meant (without needing to be fussy about semantics), we might need to clarify the difference in the suggestions we make.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> OK, the most recent discussion has me rethinking this as a list of pieces for absolute beginners. Here goes, alphabetically:
> 
> Bach Concerto No. 1
> Beethoven Symphony No. 5
> ...


A very good list Matthew but a few problems…if I may! 

Which Bach Concerto #1. Harpischord? Violin? Brandenburg? I say go with the entire Brandenburgs. In my experience they are sure-fire with beginners.

On the other hand, Mahler and Sibelius are NOT sure-fire…far from it…at least those works you selected. If you must go with Mahler, go with the First Symphony, easily his most direct and accessible…and the 'Star Trek' opening is added plus.  Sibelius: Second Symphony if you must have a symphony by him.

And I would *never *propose the Strauss _Metamorphosen _for a beginner…not accessible enough as great a piece as it is. If you want to include a Strauss work, possibly _Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche_. But I have found that for the most part beginners do not respond to Strauss.

Schumann: go with his best symphony, the Third.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

ArsMusica said:


> A very good list Matthew but a few problems…if I may!
> 
> Which Bach Concerto #1. Harpischord? Violin? Brandenburg? I say go with the entire Brandenburgs. In my experience they are sure-fire with beginners.
> 
> ...


I agree that the Strauss, Mahler and Sibelius are the least accessible. I wanted to throw in at least a _little_ bit of challenge. ;-)


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I agree that the Strauss, Mahler and Sibelius are the least accessible. I wanted to throw in at least a _little_ bit of challenge. ;-)


Ah ha, I see! :devil:

And Matthew, which Bach concerto?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

It is clear what each and every one of us must do: submit a proper list of 20 pieces _sensu lato_ that will engage the interest of a musically inclined person (presumably young) to further pursue investigation of "classical music". By this I mean the Brandenburgs are OK to suggest, and the entire Ring cycle is not.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

ArsMusica said:


> As a classical musician and college instructor, I taught numerous music appreciation classes and created beginner's list for at least twenty friends through the years. Beginners (with *extremely few* exceptions) had/have no interest in vocal music and any type of 20th/21st century music except the most accessible, e.g., Vaughan Williams. A person new to classical music will have trouble with most, if not all, of your list from Prokofiev (if not Mahler) to Chin, along with your pre-Mozart vocal music selections. Bach cantatas for a beginner and not the Brandenburgs? No way.


This hasn't been my experience introducing friends to classical music, but on further reflection I think you're right about some of this, particularly the prominence of vocal music. The Brandenburgs would probably be a better choice, though for something that fits on a single CD, I'd go for the violin concertos. I'll say the recording with Rachel Podger and Andrew Manze.

The Paul Hillier recording stays as the sole representative of early music. Tallis/Byrd can be replaced by a Vivaldi concerto album by Alessandrini and the Concerto Italiano.

I can lose Berg, Gubaidulina and Dutilleux. I don't have time to narrow down specific albums, but good replacements could be some Haydn string quartets, Dvorak's 8th and/or New World symphony and the Rite of Spring.

Prokofiev, Reich, Takemitsu, and Chin are staying. Prokofiev in particular poses no challenge for any but the most unadventurous listeners, whatever their experience level. Reich and Takemitsu are both composers I've seen get immediate positive reactions from multiple people, and represent important tendencies in classical music. Chin is a reach, but I wanted to do something relatively contemporary. The point is to give people a chance to decide what they like.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> It is clear what each and every one of us must do: submit a proper list of 20 pieces _sensu lato_ that will engage the interest of a musically inclined person (presumably young) to further pursue investigation of "classical music". *By this I mean the Brandenburgs are OK to suggest, and the entire Ring cycle is not*.


My thoughts exactly.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

ArsMusica said:


> Ah ha, I see! :devil:
> 
> And Matthew, which Bach concerto?


Bach Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G major BWM 1048 (Changed it to 3, seems more iconic)

The Schumann I chose was Sym. 4 because the Scherzo is just so catchy.

I chose Metamorphosen because it is intense and moving, and speaks very much to today - a nation tearing itself apart. I would want a newbie to see that "classical" can be more than just pretty music about people with powdered wigs.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> *Bach Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G major BWM 1048* (Changed it to 3, seems more iconic)
> 
> The Schumann I chose was Sym. 4 because the Scherzo is just so catchy.
> 
> I chose Metamorphosen because it is intense and moving, and speaks very much to today - a nation tearing itself apart. I would want a newbie to see that "classical" can be more than just pretty music about people with powdered wigs.


Excellent choice indeed! That is the one (of the Brandenburgs) I play for a beginner...so ebullient and joyous right out of the gate!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

ArsMusica said:


> Excellent choice indeed! That is the one (of the Brandenburgs) I play for a beginner...so ebullient and joyous right out of the gate!


I also love No.3. But for joy almost to the point of mania, there is no substitute for the last movement of No.4! Walter/Wendy Carlos' synthesizer performance of No.4 is itself a revelation that Bach was often a Very Happy Man.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

When you're a beginner you don't have a library. That's the fun part. You make discoveries on your own without others telling you what to listen to and what recordings to buy.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

starthrower said:


> When you're a beginner you don't have a library. That's the fun part. You make discoveries on your own without others telling you what to listen to and what recordings to buy.


Totally agree. When I was a beginner, making discoveries on my own was a most rewarding experience. Looking back, I'm glad I wasn't paying attention to lists made by others.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2019)

starthrower said:


> When you're a beginner you don't have a library. That's the fun part. You make discoveries on your own without others telling you what to listen to and what recordings to buy.


Well, assuming that a beginner has actually begun, s/he will have a library - just a very small one!


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

"When you're a beginner you don't have a library. That's the fun part. You make discoveries on your own without others telling you what to listen to and what recordings to buy."

"When I was a beginner, making discoveries on my own was a most rewarding experience. Looking back, I'm glad I wasn't paying attention to lists made by others."

All well and good for some but not for others. One size does not fit all.

Most beginners benefit greatly from some guidance and suggestions. I never told beginners what they *had *to listen to. In talking with them and/or playing music for them, I would get an idea of what type of music they might like. There is nothing autocratic about guiding people...it can save them a lot of time and trouble.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_It is clear what each and every one of us must do: submit a proper list of 20 pieces sensu lato that will engage the interest of a musically inclined person (presumably young) to further pursue investigation of "classical music". By this I mean the Brandenburgs are OK to suggest, and the entire Ring cycle is not. _

I think such an exercise might be fraught with bias. I'd suggest a better idea being submitting a list of the first 20 items you either bought or heard that turned you on to classical music. I can remember some of them:

1. Handel's Messiah which I sang in high school and church choir before I ever sniffed another piece of classical music.
2. Bach's Orchestral Suites which in those days were often called overtures.
3. Beethoven's 5th symphony.
4. Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker suite which I wouldn't refer to anyone as their first Tchaikovsky. It helped me to believe he wrote happy low pressure music.
5. Dag Wiren's Serenade an odd choice I know but there it is.
6. Tchaikovsky 4th symphony I bought after explaining to someone how I thought he wrote happy low pressure music. They told me to get the 4th symphony.
7. Bruckner's 3rd symphony which I wouldn't recommend to any newbie.
8, Mozart's 41st symphony.
9. Bach Brandenburg concertos.
10. Chopin piano concertos.

I can't remember anything else.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

The first works that turned me on to classical music:

Shostakovich - Symphony no. 5/Op. 87 Preludes and Fugues
Vaughan Williams - Symphony no. 9
Bach - Brandenburgs/Orchestral Suites/WTC
Handel - Messiah
Mahler - Symphony no. 4
Mozart - Great Mass in C minor
Prokofiev - Symphony no. 1
Ravel - Bolero


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

I have listened to classical music for years occasionally, just not 'seriously', as I am now. I've also attended the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra and many times had no, or very little idea, of the composers I was going to listen to, nor knew the symphonies as I may now. 

What composer/conductor got me to take a serious look? Boulez. Not Beethoven, or Mozart, Bach, or even Wagner. I kinda knew those composers, and have heard them live in Cleveland, but it was picking up a Boulez CD with both his compositions and conducting that really made me want to investigate further. To this day, I think I still enjoy the lesser known composers more than the 'biggies', but I enjoy them as well. Interesting that I wasn't even aware of Boulez's relationship with The Cleveland Orchestra 45+/- years ago. I now have most everything he did with The Cleveland Orchestra.

Now, it is doubtful many would have recommended Boulez if I asked for suggestions.

So yes, for me, I tend to agree with Bulldog that it may be best for each to find their way. If they have a true interest, they will.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

How did you find the Boulez in the first place, Bkeske?


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## Bkeske (Feb 27, 2019)

Good question. I was looking into getting into 'classical' a little more, looking through some CD's to purchase and found his 'Artists Album' CD. Perhaps it was his look on the cover, the fact I did not know who he was, I really have no idea. I just took a chance, listened, really enjoyed it, and that started the ball rolling.

I am a 'homer' though, and have since picked up a lot of recordings by The Cleveland Orchestra after getting more serious, especially Szell, but also have the Maazel/Cleveland Orchestra box set....and of course, a Boulez/Cleveland Orchestra box set.

In fact, today? I would say I am more drawn to particular conductors vs composers, as some conductors simply make various composers music 'shine'. Karajen and Beethoven, as one example. Although Szell's Beethoven is nothing to sneeze at.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Per Strange Magic's suggestion here is my list of 20 works for a beginner.

My approach here is that a beginner has asked me for a list of 20 pieces that they can access on YouTube. I include the YouTube links.

My first list will consist of single pieces, not sets of pieces. The idea with this list is that the beginner will be directed to pieces with the purpose of "grabbing" them, so to speak. In fact, I selected many of these pieces based on how they open.

*Grab them.* *Not challenge them, not be concerned with the relative importance of the work within the particular composers' oeuvre or in the overall history of Western Art Music.* We are just out to open the door and draw the beginner into a tremendous world of beauty.

Beside the "grab" factor I have compiled the list with the intent of providing something of an historical spread. But that is secondary.

And, yep, *lotsa warhorses*…*because that is what works*. (Tip of the hat to Bill Cooke! :tiphat

Respighi? Yes. I have found that most beginners and experienced listeners alike really like this music. Do I like it? I love it…but it is not here for that reason…it is here because it meets the list criteria…IT WORKS!

No vocal music? Correct.
No string quartets, piano trios, etc.? Correct.
No Schumann? Correct.
No Wagner? Correct.
No Bruckner? Correct.
No Mahler? Correct.
"Easy" 20th century music? Correct.

Monteverdi: Toccata from "L'Orfeo"





Michael Praetorius: Dances from Terpsichore





Bach: Brandenburg Concerto #3 in G major





Vivaldi: Violin concerto, "Spring" from the Four Seasons





Handel: Water Music, Suite in F Major





Haydn: Trumpet Concerto in Eb













Mozart: Eine Kleine Nachtmusik





Beethoven: Symphony #6





Schubert: Symphony #5 (yes #5 not #8…more catchy opening)





Bizet: L'Arlesienne Suite No. 1




I debated between the various Carmen and L'Arlesienne suites. I went with this one because of the striking opening of the first movement and the ebullient final movement.

Mendelssohn: The Hebrides Overture





Chopin: Polanaise in Ab "Heroic"





Brahms: Hungarian Dance No.5





Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite #1





Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio Espagnol





Respighi: Ancient Airs and Dances, Suite No. 2





Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on Greensleeves





Holst: The Planets





Stravinsky: Pulcinella Suite





Copland: Fanfare for the Common Man





Edit: Yikes I forgot the Barber Adagio for Strings! So 21 pieces...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^Of course I would make some choices different from yours, but you overall have chosen the correct path IMO. People (we trust) have decades before them to expand their musical horizons; the key is to trap them at the beginning into forming a habit of listening to this music and then seeking, first, similar music, and then somewhat different but perhaps related music, etc.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> ^^^^Of course I would make some choices different from yours, but you overall have chosen the correct path IMO. People (we trust) have decades before them to expand their musical horizons;* the key is to trap them at the beginning into forming a habit of listening to this music and then seeking, first, similar music, and then somewhat different but perhaps related music,* etc.


Many thanks SM!

Your statement above in bold is spot on! *THAT *is the spirit of the list.

Yes, I would expect each person to have different choices and that is fine. It is the spirit of the list which is important and as long as anyone's selection(s) adhered to that I know I would be good with it.

I could be easily convinced to replace a number of my selections with very similar ones...there are a number of Brahms' pieces that would fit the criteria, for example. I was hesitant to go with the Hungarian Dance #5 and was considering his Haydn Variations.

Indeed, I could come up with a completely different list of 20 that would conform to the spirit...heck, come up with more than a few!


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2019)

Whilst I have already acknowledged the value in a novice listener being given some pointers, I've been reflecting on my own musical journey and firmly reject the notion there could be such a thing as an "essential" library. Yes, there are many pieces we could identify as either being "essential" to the notion of what CM has been in the past, and has been evolving into. Yes, we could identify works and composers who have made a distinct contribution, and say that no self-respecting CM enthusiast could have a library that didn't contain at least one work by one or more of the Big Three.

My reason for rejection is because of the concept of a library itself. My experience of music has not been one of wandering around an enclosed (and therefore limited, finite space) picking this or that off the shelf, occasionally asking the librarian where I might find something specific or something new.

I started in the library to the extent that I was born into a house that had a collection of vinyl, which, as I grew up, I got to hear (without necessarily consciously listening to it). It was not, to begin with, a deliberate act. In any case, it was a shared act, with my parents and siblings (5) and the presence of the radio, TV and cinema as extra random sources of music meant that whether I wanted to or not, I was a consumer of music of all types, and when I could start to make my own choices, I rejected this and embraced that without any reference to the idea that I was, at the same time, rejecting or embracing some sacrosanct, prescribed list. I was also embracing and rejecting things not on the list. I embraced Ligeti and rejected Schoenberg, for example, neither of whom appear on any of the shorter lists offered so far.

In other words, it was simultaneously a linear, but also chaotic experience. I could say that I started with Holst and Dvorak, but so much else besides, willing and unwilling, that it would simply be a misrepresentation.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

> MacLeod: "In other words, it was simultaneously a linear, but also chaotic experience. I could say that I started with Holst and Dvorak, but so much else besides, willing and unwilling, that it would simply be a misrepresentation."


I think to a degree our experiences overlap, in that I heard all sorts of music growing up and in the house. But almost all of the CM I heard thus was the Russians and a potpourri of 20th-century French/Czech/Spanish/American composers. No Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms at all; I gathered up those composers and others later, expanding from that initial base. So I concur that the experiment can begin anywhere, and can be chaotic or not, depending on the catholicity of tastes within the ancestral home. The idea of a basic starter list would be to offer a larger selection of materials on the buffet table than the spread I inherited, so as to speed and broaden a person's taste and appetite, though, depending on how young one is, there may be many decades to make up lost time and opportunities.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

20 works for beginners: 

- Allegri's Miserere 
- Bach's Goldbergs on harpsichord 
- Beethoven's Waldstein sonata 
- Bizet's Carmen 
- Brahms' Symphony #1 
- Bruch's VC #1 
- Chopin's nocturnes 
- Crumb's Black Angels 
- Debussy's Prelude to the afternoon 
- Feldman's 3 Voices 
- Ligeti's Lux Aeterna 
- Mozart's Don Giovanni 
- Mozart's Requiem 
- Rebel's Elements 
- Reich's Music for 18 Musicians 
- Rzewski's The People United 
- Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire 
- Stravinsky's Sacre 
- Takemitsu's From Me Flows 
- Tchaikovsky's PC #1


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## skim1124 (Mar 6, 2019)

I can't speak on the topic of an essential library, but probably the most influential experience in deepening my appreciation of classical music was attending a performance of Mozart's Requiem (Ann Arbor, 1990 or 1991), after which I soon bought Bernstein's version and led me to buy/listen to a whole lot of other choral works and after that operas. I'm still very grateful to the friend (who sang in the choir at the performance) who invited/encouraged me to go. 

So perhaps two lessons from my experience on how to engage a beginner: 1) a concert experience might be the best catalyst for engaging a beginner, 2) awakening passion for even one narrow slice of classical music (e.g. choral) or even one piece of music (e.g. Mozart's Requiem) might be better than giving them a long list of great works.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^A fine brace of ideas. But therefore that one work must be the "right" one, lest the experiment fail utterly. How to choose?


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

The nicest way of getting into classical music is to get hooked on whatever piece of music and then starting to dig deeper and discover an entire world for yourself, a lifelong investment

This one piece to start with, will be different for everyone. To me, in my teens, it was Mahler 3:angel:, not the most likely, I admit, but it did it for me.

DG however does a relative fine job in offering a 50cd set from their Originals sublabel. All top class recordings. Going through it, there will certainly be something for anyone to connect to as novice (HIP however sadly is excluded):


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## skim1124 (Mar 6, 2019)

Strange Magic said:


> ^^^^A fine brace of ideas. But therefore that one work must be the "right" one, lest the experiment fail utterly. How to choose?


It's certainly not a foolproof method, so we have to be willing to fail. Also, I'm not saying that we can only make one recommendation, and I'd hope that we'd be given more than one chance.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I think I'd vote for the Tchaikovsky No.1 PC as the one selection least likely to fail to engage a random newcomer to CM. That gigantic opening melody is hard to ignore and hard to dislike by almost anybody. In fact, is dislike of it a sign of a pathology?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I think I'd vote for the Tchaikovsky No.1 PC as the one selection least likely to fail to engage a random newcomer to CM. That gigantic opening melody is hard to ignore and hard to dislike by almost anybody. In fact, is dislike of it a sign of a pathology?


I strongly dislike that piano concerto, especially the opening with its histrionic displays. Dislike of this work is a sign of good taste.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I may have already responded, but I'm going to do so again because my list frequently changes:

Allegri, Miserere/Palestina, Missa Papae Marcelli - Tallis Scholars
Bach, Brandenburg concertos - Britten
Bach, Cello suites - Fournier
Bach, Goldberg variations - Gould (1981)
Bach, Well-tempered Clavier - Gilbert
Bach, St Matthew Passion - Herreweghe
Bartok, Concerto for orchestra - Reiner
Beethoven, Symphony No. 3 - Klemperer (1959)
Beethoven, Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 - Kleiber
Beethoven, Symphony No. 9 - Fricsay
Beethoven, Piano concerto No. 5 - Fleisher/Szell
Beethoven, Violin concerto - Perlman/Giulini
Beethoven, Late string quartets - Busch Qt.
Beethoven, Piano sonatas Nos. 8, 14, 21, 23 - Rubinstein
Berlioz, Symphonie fantastique - Beecham
Bizet, Carmen - De Los Angeles/Beecham
Brahms, Symphony No. 4 - Kleiber
Brahms, Piano concertos - Gilels/Jochum
Brahms, Violin concerto - Perlman/Giulini
Brahms, Requiem - Gardiner
Bruckner, Symphony No. 8 - Karajan
Chopin, Best of the Rubinstein collection
Debussy, La mer, Prelude a l'apres midi/Ravel, Bolero, Daphnis - Karajan
Debussy/Ravel, String quartets - Melos Qt
Dvorak, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Kubelik
Dvorak, Cello concerto - Rostropovich/Karajan
Gershwin, Rhapsody in blue, An American in Paris - Bernstein (Sony)
Grieg/Schumann, Piano concertos - Kovacevich
Grieg, Peer gynt suites/Sibelius, Finlandia - Karajan 
Handel, Music for royal fireworks, Water music - Kubelik
Handel, Messiah - Pinnock
Haydn, London symphonies - Jochum
Haydn, Op. 76 String quartets - Lindsay Qt
Holst, The Planets - Dutoit
Liszt, Piano concertos, Piano sonata - Richter
Mahler, Symphony No. 5 - Barbirolli
Mahler, Symphony No. 9 - Karajan
Mahler, Das Lied von der Erde - Ferrier/Walter
Mendelssohn, Violin concerto, Symphony No. 4 - Zukerman/Bernstein
Monteverdi, Vespers of 1610 - Gardiner
Mozart, Symphonies Nos. 35-41 - Bernstein
Mozart, Piano concertos Nos. 20, 23, 24, 27 - Curzon
Mozart, Eine kleine Nachtsmusik - I Musici
Mozart, Requiem - Marriner
Mozart, Don Giovanni - Krips
Mozart, Le Nozze di Figaro - Kleiber
Mozart, Die Zauberflote - Karajan (1951)
Mussorgsky, Pictures at an exhibition, Night on bare mountain - Reiner
Orff, Carmina burana - Jochum
Pachelbel, Canon/Albinoni, Adagio, Baroque miniatures - Munchinger
Prokofiev, Romeo and Juliet - Maazel
Puccini, La boheme - Beecham
Puccini, Tosca - Callas/De Sabata
Rachmaninoff, Piano concertos Nos. 2 & 3 - Janis/Dorati
Rimsky-Korsakov, Scheherazade - Kondrashin
Rossini, Overtures - Reiner
Schubert, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Krips
Schubert, String quartet No. 14 - Italian Quartet
Schubert, Piano sonata No. 21 - Kovacevich
Schubert, Winterreise - Hotter/Moore
Schumann, Kreisleriana - Horowitz
Schumann, Dichterliebe - Wunderlich
Shostakovich, Symphony No. 5 - Bernstein '59
Shostakovich, String quartet No. 8 - Borodin Qt
Sibelius, Violin concerto - Heifetz/Hendl
R. Strauss, Also sprach Zarathustra, Ein Heldenleben - Reiner
R. Strauss, Four last songs - Schwarzkopf/Szell
Stravinsky, Rite of spring, Petrushka - Dorati (Decca)
Tchaikovsky, Symphonies Nos. 4-6 - Mravinsky
Tchaikovsky, Piano concerto No 1/Prokofiev, Piano concerto No 3 - Argerich/Dutoit
Tchaikovsky, 1812 overtures - Dorati
Tchaikovsky, Ballet suites - Rostropovich
Vaughan Williams, Fantasias/Elgar, String music - Barbirolli
Verdi, Requiem - Giulini
Verdi, Otello - Vickers/Serafin
Verdi, La Traviata - Callas/Giulini
Vivaldi, Four seasons - Marriner '70
Wagner, Overtures and preludes - Karajan (EMI)
Wagner, Der Ring des Nibelungen - Bohm
Wagner, Tristan und Isolde - Flagstad/Furtwangler
Opera arias - Pavarotti


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> I strongly dislike that piano concerto, especially the opening with its histrionic displays. Dislike of this work is a sign of good taste.


Diagnosis confirmed! :lol:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

It really doesn't matter how we personally feel about any of these works, since the question isn't what we like but what is a good introduction to classical music. Tchaik's PC1 is one of the most famous works in the entire canon, so we don't have much choice.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> It really doesn't matter how we personally feel about any of these works, since the question isn't what we like but what is a good introduction to classical music. Tchaik's PC1 is one of the most famous works in the entire canon, so we don't have much choice.


Wrong, my friend. Choice is abundant in a free society where every beginner is unique.:tiphat:


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

science said:


> *It really doesn't matter how we personally feel about any of these works, since the question isn't what we like but what is a good introduction to classical music.* Tchaik's PC1 is one of the most famous works in the entire canon, so we don't have much choice.


The sentence in bold in spot on. Objectivity is important in compiling a beginners list.

In my list, for example, there are pieces that I like (or in some cases merely tolerate)-Eine Kliene Nachtmusik, the Chopin Ab Polonaise, the Brahms Hungarian Dance and the Capriccio Espagnol-that I have not played for my listening pleasure in YEARS.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> Wrong, my friend. Choice is abundant in a free society where every beginner is unique.:tiphat:


But ARE we a free society?

I'm not talking about the political structures of the states we live in. I mean is the society of classical music fans truly free?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The idea of forming a library for those starting out without any knowledge of the composers is not talked about enough. Specific works are just mentioned without any context. Read the lives of the composers and you will know what to have in your library, what you might want to hear starting out. Then you can branch off from there. But with no knowledge of the composers, there's no background on anyone, nor the history of the music. Educate yourself. Composers are famous for certain works that are worth exploring to get a feel for what you might be attracted to, or listening becomes just a random event unless that's what you want. Their biographies generate curiosity. It's their lives that create a deeper and lasting interest in this great music, and then your instincts take over.

https://www.amazon.com/Lives-Great-Composers-Harold-Schonberg/dp/0393038572/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=56845828035&hvadid=274754642614&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9030174&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4160026241265975346&hvtargid=aud-646675773986%3Akwd-300550813565&keywords=lives+of+the+great+composers&qid=1552345820&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=hydsma-20


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

science said:


> But ARE we a free society?
> 
> I'm not talking about the political structures of the states we live in. I mean is the society of classical music fans truly free?


I think you need to specify - in what areas you'd prefer more freedom for instance. Or if you are into some sort of view that people make unconscious choices etc.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> But ARE we a free society?
> 
> I'm not talking about the political structures of the states we live in. I mean is the society of classical music fans truly free?


How are you not free?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, I didn't invent the canon, right? 

Classical music is an inherently monarchical, aristocratic world. We are meant to defer to the authorities.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> Well, I didn't invent the canon, right?
> 
> Classical music is an inherently monarchical, aristocratic world. We are meant to defer to the authorities.


The hell with the canon and the authority figures. The world of classical music is right in front of us; all we have to do is start making choices.

In my opinion, some of you are taking this "beginners list' way too seriously. Discovering music should be an enjoyable/fun experience. Yes, education is important, but it's an inherent element of the discovery process.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> The hell with the canon and the authority figures. The world of classical music is right in front of us; all we have to do is start making choices.
> 
> In my opinion, some of you are taking this "beginners list' way too seriously. Discovering music should be an enjoyable/fun experience. Yes, education is important, but it's an inherent element of the discovery process.


I doubt anyone takes it more seriously than I do! So from my POV, no one else takes it seriously enough.

But that doesn't exclude the fun. To me, the education aspect of it includes the pleasure, but pursuing pleasure as an end in itself is not pleasing. It's like trying to be happy - trying to be happy can only make you unhappy.

Anyway, I can have fun listening to almost anything. I mean, of the almost 4000 works on our list, I probably enjoy all but 25 or so. I don't really believe people who say they don't! So the question is which of the options I should listen to next. "Fun" or pleasure or anything like that doesn't exclude very much, doesn't point in any particular direction.

So to me, the fun question, the pleasing question, is, what should I learn next? What information/ideas that I don't already have am I most likely to need?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> I doubt anyone takes it more seriously than I do! So from my POV, no one else takes it seriously enough.
> 
> But that doesn't exclude the fun. To me, the education aspect of it includes the pleasure, but pursuing pleasure as an end in itself is not pleasing. It's like trying to be happy - trying to be happy can only make you unhappy.
> 
> ...


We are on very different roads.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> We are on very different roads.


Everyone is, no matter how hard we try not to be!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

science said:


> Well, I didn't invent the canon, right?
> 
> Classical music is an inherently monarchical, aristocratic world. We are meant to defer to the authorities.


There's no other type of music so weighed down by its history. Music is about knowledge handed down from generation to generation. The most positive way I can look at this is that as listeners we don't have to reinvent the wheel, those before us have prepared the soil so we can plant and reap our own harvest.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2019)

The idea that one might feel compelled to listen to some kind of authorised canon in order to be formally introduced to the world of classical is abhorrent.

BTW, have you seen my blog about _1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die_?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> The idea that one might feel compelled to listen to some kind of authorised canon in order to be formally introduced to the world of classical is abhorrent.


Really? Why?

But even if something is abhorrent, it's not untrue. In fact, given that most fantasies are pleasant, most truth must be unpleasant. Anything pleasant that appears true deserves a double measure of suspicion.



MacLeod said:


> BTW, have you seen my blog about _1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die_?


No, but I'll look for it!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Larkenfield said:


> The idea of forming a library for those starting out without any knowledge of the composers is not talked about enough. Specific works are just mentioned without any context. Read about the lives of the composers and you will know what to have in your library, what you might want to hear starting out. Then you can branch off from there. But with no knowledge of the composers, there's no background on anyone, nor the history of the music. Educate yourself. Composers are famous for certain works that are worth exploring to get a feel for what you might be attracted to, or listening becomes just a random event unless that's what you want. Their biographies generate curiosity. It's their lives that create a deeper and lasting interest in this great music, and then your instincts take over.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Lives-Great-Composers-Harold-Schonberg/dp/0393038572/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=56845828035&hvadid=274754642614&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9030174&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4160026241265975346&hvtargid=aud-646675773986%3Akwd-300550813565&keywords=lives+of+the+great+composers&qid=1552345820&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=hydsma-20


Absolutely!

But, what this really means is that it is not enough merely to listen to or even to enjoy the music. We are supposed to know something (the more the better) about its history and be able to analyze it (at least a little, but again, the more the better) in terms of music theory.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2019)

science said:


> Really? Why?


It's the idea of 'compulsion' that is abhorrent - not the idea that there might be a list for beginners to start with.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> It's the idea of 'compulsion' that is abhorrent - not the idea that there might be a list for beginners to start with.


Of course no one's threatening anyone. But if you want to be respected, you have to achieve what is respected.

I think it's just dishonest to pretend that we're going to respect someone who really only enjoys "light" music (no matter how much he knows about it) as much as someone who has a thorough knowledge of "the canon" (no matter how little she enjoys it).


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2019)

science said:


> Of course no one's threatening anyone. But if you want to be respected, you have to achieve what is respected.
> 
> I think it's just dishonest to pretend that we're going to respect someone who really only enjoys "light" music (no matter how much he knows about it) as much as someone who has a thorough knowledge of "the canon" (no matter how little she enjoys it).


Given how far short I fall in my experience of the canon, I feel compelled to point out that I demand satisfaction, sirrah, for the lack of respect you have shown me! :devil:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> Of course no one's threatening anyone. But if you want to be respected, you have to achieve what is respected.
> 
> I think it's just dishonest to pretend that we're going to respect someone who really only enjoys "light" music (no matter how much he knows about it) as much as someone who has a thorough knowledge of "the canon" (no matter how little she enjoys it).


So your respect for another individual is at least partially determined by his/her musical preferences and knowledge?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I believe one of the greatest pleasures in life is to read about a composer while listening to the music he or she composed. For me, there was no better foundation and many others have done so too and greatly profited in the enjoyment of the music. Reading about them illuminates not only their genius but what they went through to be a composer, including the madness that someone such as Hugo Wolf went through. I would highly recommend this to anyone wanting to develop their library and to hone their listening instincts. I find most lists oppressive without the context.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> Given how far short I fall in my experience of the canon, I feel compelled to point out that I demand satisfaction, sirrah, for the lack of respect you have shown me! :devil:


As I've owned afore, I am much too arrant and cowardly a knave to grant thee any satisfaction!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> So your respect for another individual is at least partially determined by his/her musical preferences and knowledge?


_At least partly_.

Of course. Also by their height, the whiteness and straightness of their teeth, the symmetry of their faces, the clarity of their eyes, the timbre of their voices, the fit of their clothing, whether they've read Kant, whether they laugh at my jokes, how good-looking their romantic partners have been, whether they use "its" and "it's" correctly, how they pronounce "creek," if they know what Appalachian ******** are really like, and a million other stupid things.

We're all just human here.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I may have already responded, but I'm going to do so again because my list frequently changes:
> 
> Allegri, Miserere/Palestina, Missa Papae Marcelli - Tallis Scholars
> Bach, Brandenburg concertos - Britten
> ...


So I realize my list yesterday was rather long. As such, here is what I would suggest as a 10-CD starter kit:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)




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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Every time I see one of these lists I understand why Europe had so many wars...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

philoctetes said:


> Every time I see one of these lists I understand why Europe had so many wars...


Only Antarctica has been generally peaceful, but their music is hard to appreciate.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

science said:


> _At least partly_.
> 
> Of course. Also by their height, the whiteness and straightness of their teeth, the symmetry of their faces, the clarity of their eyes, the timbre of their voices, the fit of their clothing, whether they've read Kant, whether they laugh at my jokes, how good-looking their romantic partners have been, whether they use "its" and "it's" correctly, how they pronounce "creek," if they know what Appalachian ******** are really like, and a million other stupid things.
> 
> We're all just human here.


I can't respect men or women who have hairs sticking out from their nostrils - it's so gross.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> I can't respect men or women who have hairs sticking out from their nostrils - it's so gross.


Wait a minute. Do you know me or is this a random comment?


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

And so expanding on my 10-CD starter kit above, here are the next 10 in order:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)




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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Brahmsianhorn said:


>


I would like to comment on your choices. Please forgive me, as I am going to play the "experience" card. And forgive my response if it seems harsh…it isn't meant to be. It is just that I believe many of your choices are not appropriate for a beginner's list.

As a classical musician and college teacher I have dealt with quite a few beginners; about 20 or so personal friends who asked for advice through the years and literally hundreds of college students in the numerous sections of music appreciation I taught some years ago. Of course, I didn't give one-on-one guidance to each of the hundreds of students I had in class but a sizable amount of them did come to me out of class asking for a list of pieces, typically music very similar to pieces we had on the assigned listening. In addition, in every appreciation class I taught, I always polled the students after playing a piece of music in class or about pieces in the assigned listening. I would ask if they loved/liked/disliked/hated the particular piece and ask why. As such I got an excellent idea of what types of pieces did or did not appeal to beginners.

Based on that experience I would eliminate the following from your 20-CD starter kit:

Mozart Requiem
Monteverdi	
Tosca
Schumann/Schubert lieder
Verdi Requiem
Tristan and Isolde
Messiah
*The vast majority of beginners do not like vocal music of any kind. *

Debussy/Ravel/Kodaly string quartets
Haydn quartets	
*The vast majority of beginners prefer orchestral music to chamber music.*

Goldberg Variations
Mahler 9
*The vast majority of beginners do like difficult/challenging music.*

Shostakovich
Stravinsky Rite/Petrushka
*The vast majority of beginners do not like 20th century music, unless it is very accessible.*


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Yikes ya'll!....


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

ArsMusica said:


> As a classical musician and college teacher I have dealt with quite a few beginners; about 20 or so personal friends who asked for advice through the years and literally hundreds of college students in the numerous sections of music appreciation I taught some years ago. Of course, I didn't give one-on-one guidance to each of the hundreds of students I had in class but a sizable amount of them did come to me out of class asking for a list of pieces, typically music very similar to pieces we had on the assigned listening. In addition, in every appreciation class I taught, I always polled the students after playing a piece of music in class or about pieces in the assigned listening. I would ask if they loved/liked/disliked/hated the particular piece and ask why. As such I got an excellent idea of what types of pieces did or did not appeal to beginners.
> 
> Based on that experience I would eliminate the following from your 20-CD starter kit:
> 
> ...


Using the above parameters, that would only leave older orchestral works without voices or challenge. I think I'll stay away from those beginners. I'm hardly an eclectic listener, but the limitations you present are mind-numbing.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Brahmsianhorn said:


>


 For the more serious novices to the music or in a music appreciation class, if it were presented or explained as being historically important or particularly challenging to the listener, it can stimulate curiosity and interest. If presented cold turkey without being in any historical context, it probably wouldn't work for those new to the music. I have seen it over the years that the mind can inform the ears and open them in unexpected ways. But the context has to be presented in the right way that will hook a beginner's interest, and even if they don't like it, they were still exposed to it and given a choice. For instance, knowing that Beethoven was a virtually deaf composer can generate an interest in his life and consequently his music. Overall, if there's going to be a list there should be a biography of each composer that goes along with the listening and a discussion under which the music was composed. Furtwangler's recording of the Wagner overtures is a tremendous recording and I feel that it could be a great introduction to the composer without the vocals. I feel that the biographies and historical context cannot be emphasized enough. The Strauss could be presented as being used in the film 2001. It can be a great advantage to anyone to have a book of excellent biographies to refer to, especially at the same time listening to their music while reading.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

> ArsMusica: "The vast majority of beginners do not like 20th century music, unless it is very accessible."


I agree with this. For Shostakovich, should we choose to include a work, it should be the 2nd PC; for Stravinsky, _Firebird_, and the fairground music of _Petroushka_. Prokofiev could be referenced with _Kije_, Khachaturian with _Gayne_, and the group Respighi, Ravel, Debussy, Copland, Grofé, Villa-Lobos with their most accessible works. The exception is if one has heard the "harder stuff" like the _Rite_ or Bartók's major orchestral works--the _Divertimento, Concerto for Orchestra_, etc.--from an early age (young teens or earlier).


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Disney's Fantasia. The soundtrack was two full discs of Classical music, all of which are instantly recognizable.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I don’t agree about the Mozart Requiem not being accessible for beginners. That and Orff’s Carmina Burana have always been popular with beginners in my experience.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

The vast majority of beginners born after 1980 or so love challenging music and post-WWII music.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I don't agree about the Mozart Requiem not being accessible for beginners. That and Orff's Carmina Burana have always been popular with beginners in my experience.


Agreed. Mozart's Requiem was one of my first 10 classical CDs I got in my youth, and I was listening to it at least a couple times a week.


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## radiodurans (Dec 8, 2018)

AeolianStrains said:


> Disney's Fantasia. The soundtrack was two full discs of Classical music, all of which are instantly recognizable.


As a sampler disc it is pretty good . . . I don't think I'd put it on a list for starting a library, though, personally.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Barber: Adagio for Strings
Holst: The Planets
Dvorak: Symphony No.9
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
Beethoven: Moonlight Sonata
Beethoven: Sonata Pathetique
Prokofiev: Lt Kije
Haydn: Trumpet Concerto
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto
Elgar: Enigma Variations
Rachmaninoff: PC No.2
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Stravinsky: Firebird Suite


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

radiodurans said:


> As a sampler disc it is pretty good . . . I don't think I'd put it on a list for starting a library, though, personally.


Perhaps not that performances of those works, but all of those works are phenomenal and instantly recognizable.


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