# Bonus Round as I left Tebaldi off the final: La Mamma Morta. Muzio vs Tebaldi



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

*Renata Tebaldi "La Mamma morta" 1950 Studio recording*


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Thank you !
I loved Tebaldi in this. Muzio is uncanny. I might ger used to her later.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *Renata Tebaldi "La Mamma morta" 1950 Studio recording*


Re: the voting header -- What are "stolen votes"?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Why are there so many _subito pianos _in Muzio’s version? She also snatches breaths here and there, eschews words when the vocal line is difficult and is generally overwrought. Her _acuto _is almost shouted. This must be how they sang _Verismo _then. She takes a higher note than written. 
In contrast, Tebaldi is ladylike and fairly straight and the tempo unhurried; there are no hysterics and everything sounds lovely, the tempo is urgent toward the end and the high notes is shorn from the rest of the phrase. There is no sense at all that Tebaldi can’t handle the aria.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

This is shocking and I am looking at myself askance because Muzio is my favorite soprano but in this recording (is this the same one as before??) it doesn't sound like it. I am disappointd in her rendition -- particularly the strange ending where she doesn't end with a good chest tone.
I am not a fan of Tebaldi normally but this time she's got my vote despite the fact that the emotion of Muzio which is always heartrending is missing in her delivery.

Um, what are stolen votes??


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> This is shocking and I am looking at myself askance because Muzio is my favorite soprano but in this recording (is this the same one as before??) it doesn't sound like it. I am disappointd in her rendition -- particularly the strange ending where she doesn't end with a good chest tone.
> I am not a fan of Tebaldi normally but this time she's got my vote despite the fact that the emotion of Muzio which is always heartrending is missing in her delivery.


This is her earlier version.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MAS said:


> *This is her earlier version.*


No, it's not... It's literally the exact same version which you voted for in the previous competition and which finished second behind Callas and five votes ahead of Bruna Rasa - The videos are identical - I didn't do the initial selection of the aria but I've researched both on John's behalf - Here are the links used in each competition -



Spoiler: Andrea Chénier: La mamma morta - Original version used in the Final Contest













Spoiler: Andrea Chénier: La mamma morta - Video used in this competition


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> *This is shocking and I am looking at myself askance because Muzio is my favorite soprano but in this recording (is this the same one as before??) it doesn't sound like it. *I am disappointd in her rendition -- particularly the strange ending where she doesn't end with a good chest tone.
> I am not a fan of Tebaldi normally but this time she's got my vote despite the fact that the emotion of Muzio which is always heartrending is missing in her delivery.
> 
> Um, what are stolen votes??


Again, literally the exact same performance that you voted for originally - See above post - I took the video links directly from the thread and posted them above.

Here's the link to the Final that I used for the embedded video used above - 









Final Round: La Mamma Morta. Callas, Hernandez...


You MUST vote for two . You cannot vote just for Callas. We are picking the winner and the runner up. Soprano Vocals: Maria Callas Orchestra: Philharmonia Orchestra Conductor: Tullio Serafin Composer: Umberto Giordano Saioa Hernandez, Maddalena Claudio Sgura, Carlo Gerard Cond. Aldo Sisillo...




www.talkclassical.com


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ewilkros said:


> Re: the voting header -- What are "stolen votes"?


There's a senatorial race in Georgia tomorrow - I'm assuming that this is a reference to one of the candidate's claims that if he loses (which he will, God willing) it's because the election was stolen.

It's exhibit A on why SOF should let the Irish guy write the jokes -


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> No, it's not... It's literally the exact same version which you voted for in the previous competition and which finished second behind Callas and five votes ahead of Bruna Rasa - The videos are identical - I didn't do the initial selection of the aria but I've researched both on John's behalf - Here are the links used in each competition -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, Shaughnessy! That is amazing that I could mistake that same recording - it sounded so scratchy when I first heard it. The mind at work. Apologies to Nina for the miscommunication.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

This thread was originally intended to be a bonus round which would have allowed SOF to enter Tebaldi as she was inadvertently left off of the original Final Round. I suggested a "Challenge of the Divas" contest in which Tebaldi would square off against Muzio (the second place finisher behind Callas) and, as is evidenced by the existence of this thread, he followed through on that suggestion.

Earlier this afternoon, he posted this thread and substituted the 1934 Muzio selection which finished second with a version recorded in 1920. The selection he chose was a fan-boy copy taken from a vertical cut Edison Diamond disc in which said fan-boy intentionally dubbed the recording at a slower speed in order to "warm it up" - I thought that this decision to alter the speed of the recording was something of a mistake as the surface noise was absolutely dreadful and the quality of the recording in comparison to the original '34 (and to the Tebaldi version) wasn't even good enough to merit being labeled "second-rate" - I advised him to pull the 1920 recording and replace it with the original 1934 version which everyone loved in the original competition.

I did find this vintage 1920 recording if SOF wants to make a substitution. This is a really fine recording - a night and day difference from the other vintage '20 - Whether it's better than the '34 version is for others to decide.

Try this one - Compare it to the 34 and to the Tebaldi - Tell him what you think - And remember, he's the one who deserves all the credit - Me? - I remain, as always, nothing more than eye-candy and wisecracks -


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> Re: the voting header -- What are "stolen votes"?


Trump humor.. or attempted humor.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry for the mixup. I DON"T know Muzio but i foolishly thought earlier would be better. I swear I need a Muzio club to refer to when I post her like I do with Callas experts. Most of the time I do ok.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sorry for the mixup. I DON"T know Muzio but i foolishly thought earlier would be better. I swear I need a Muzio club to refer to when I post her like I do with Callas experts. Most of the time I do ok.


There's nothing to apologize for - The mix-up was pulled long before anyone even noticed and now you have the contest that you wanted to have - Your gal, Tebaldi, is doing better than even you expected - First-rate selection, my compliments!


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> The selection he chose was a fan-boy copy taken from a vertical cut Edison Diamond disc in which said fan-boy intentionally dubbed the recording at a slower speed in order to "warm it up" - I thought that this decision to unilaterally alter the speed of the recording was just too ridiculous to even consider, the surface noise was absolutely dreadful,


I think what fanboy did was record the Edison, electrically, at half speed (40 rpm if done by protocol, but this Edison may not have been at the usual 80 rpm), then doubled speed in playback to get it up to 80 rpm again. You do the half-speed gambit if you're having trouble tracking with a modern pickup and stylus. He should have merged left and right track to get rid of residual lateral noise (all this can be done by recording software) and didn't - sounded like stereo rumble. End results were awful (and if anything pitched _up). _Anyhow, thanks for replacing the right URLs for both 1935 and 1920.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I voted early, but it was from memory, I didn't listen to the recordings again. I will check on the other Muzio, but that will bot change my vote, judging by the responses of the others.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I heard another recording before I wrote the post (#10) above - not sure what happened to this contest, but I don’t like it.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Two exquisite performances. Tebaldi, whom I love, shows everything required in this piece, that's how such a music should be performed. But Muzio has just swept me off! It's a woman not on the brink of nervous breakdown, but in its full swing.
Edit: Second Muzio's video is just a nice old recording.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I heard another recording before I wrote the post (#10) above - not sure what happened to this contest, but I don’t like it.


When I created the new contest for some stupid *** reason I posted a different and I had hoped was better Muzio because it was a decade earlier but Shaugnessy said people would complain so I switched since only one person had voted to the original Muzio used in the former contest. Live and learn.... especially with Muzio, who I don't know and have no one to guide me like I do with Callas.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> When I created the new contest for some stupid *** reason I posted a different and I had hoped was better Muzio because it was a decade earlier *but Shaugnessy said people would complain *so I switched since only one person had voted to the original Muzio used in the former contest. Live and learn.... especially with Muzio, who I don't know and have no one to guide me like I do with Callas.


If it wasn't for Callas, Muzio would have won that contest as she had 9 votes to Bruna Rasa's 5 - The nine who chose her raved about the performance and she was one vote short of beating Bruna Rasa like a drum by a two to one margin. Substituting the version that was a clear favorite for one that was virtually unlistenable would have lead to this - and no offense John, but at your age, I'm fairly certain that you're not nearly fast enough to outrun an angry mob armed with torches which is what you would have been faced with had you made the change -


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> No, it's not... It's literally the exact same version which you voted for in the previous competition and which finished second behind Callas and five votes ahead of Bruna Rasa - The videos are identical - I didn't do the initial selection of the aria but I've researched both on John's behalf - Here are the links used in each competition -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well there ya go!! My ears just needed a bath.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> If it wasn't for Callas, Muzio would have won that contest as she had 9 votes to Bruna Rasa's 5 - The nine who chose her raved about the performance and she was one vote short of beating Bruna Rasa like a drum by a two to one margin. Substituting the version that was a clear favorite for one that was virtually unlistenable would have lead to this - and no offense John, but at your age, I'm fairly certain that you're not nearly fast enough to outrun an angry mob armed with torches which is what you would have been faced with had you made the change -


I recognized the wisdom of what you said immediately. Thanks for preventing chaos I would have brought on.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I went for Muzio despite her altering the ending. I just found it more affecting. As I often feel with Tebaldi, we get a magnificent voice singing an operatic aria. Muzio lived every moment and moved me more.


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