# Please help me for my first Lohengrin



## ‘Choral’ (2 mo ago)

Abbado or Karajan or Solti


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Kempe. 😎


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

‘Choral’ said:


> Abbado or Karajan or Solti


I could never be a true Wagnerite as I pick based on singers I like. You MUST be seriously into conductors to be fully welcome in the Wagner community 😜


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

‘Choral’ said:


> Abbado or Karajan or Solti


I agree about Kempe, both conductor and the singers.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Another vote for Kempe. One of the best recordings of any Wagner opera.


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## feierlich (3 mo ago)

Keilberth 1953


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

None of the above. Opera needs to be seen as well as heard. Get a DVD - I really like the Thieleman on DG. You can get a DVD (or Blu Ray) for less than the cost of a CD set, and the visuals and the subtitles can really aid in appreciation.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

feierlich said:


> Keilberth 1953


This is very good, as is Cluytens with Rysanek, Varnay and Konya. I have a personal preference for a Met performance with Rethberg, Thorborg and Melchior but its far from a first choice due to issues of sound quality. The Kempe is not bad at all if you're wanting a recording with good stereo sound.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Kempe EMI


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I only know the Kempe but it’s a definite yes!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

If you’re like SFO and, for the most part, me... and come to Wagner the wrong way😉😆, through the singers, I’d recommend hearing Melchior in the big arias. It’s early Wagner so there are lots of bonafide set pieces I thinK the video of Windgassen performing the last act pieces is very effective as well!


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

A live performance would be preferable. If it's inaccessible, then take a DVD. If you don't mind regietheater, it may be even modern production. You're unlikely to see anything medieval (Mariinsky, as I know, didn't shoot its beautiful production), it would be probably you know which period, but avoid the miserable München production with Harteros and Kaufmann. Wagner's operas are not designed to be heard only, until you don't know them a little and in addition don't know German. When this step is passed you can taste different recordings.


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## feierlich (3 mo ago)

For DVD, Woldemar Nelsson's one at Bayreuth 1982 is also really good. I think he's a lesser-known Wagnerian in general but this one along with the 1985 _Der fliegende Holländer_ is excellent and deserves more praise. They both have CD recordings as well.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

‘Choral’ said:


> Abbado or Karajan or Solti


 Choral, any of these three will fit the bill very well . The Kempe version is also recommendable . Also, Kubelik on DG , Colin Davis on RCA . I have yet to hear a bad complete Lohengrin recording .


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> I have a personal preference for a Met performance with Rethberg, Thorborg and Melchior but its far from a first choice due to issues of sound quality.


I assume you mean the 1940 one. Has it ever turned up without excruciating wow in the Act III Bridal Chamber Scene?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> I assume you mean the 1940 one. Has it ever turned up without excruciating wow in the Act III Bridal Chamber Scene?


I can't remember anything awful in the Pristine Classical release


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> I can't remember anything awful in the Pristine Classical release


For the longest time the version going around went back to a set of NBC linechecks in the Library of Congress. There was bad and constant slippage for like 10 or 12 minutes in the Bridal Chamber scene, and momentary problems throughout. Back in David Hamilton's day, when the Met Opera Guild was starting to put out one LP set of one of the old broadcasts per year, as a fund-raiser, Hamilton really wanted to put this one out. They looked and looked for a new source and couldn't find one.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> For the longest time the version going around went back to a set of NBC linechecks in the Library of Congress. There was bad and constant slippage for like 10 or 12 minutes in the Bridal Chamber scene, and momentary problems throughout. Back in David Hamilton's day, when the Met Opera Guild was starting to put out one LP set of one of the old broadcasts per year, as a fund-raiser, Hamilton really wanted to put this one out. They looked and looked for a new source and couldn't find one.


From Pristine's website:

'A set of newly-discovered unused acetate discs served as the basis for this release giving us the opportunity to hear the voices of some of the greatest Wagnerian singers of any generation as never before and is sonically quite possibly the best of Melchior’s numerous live recordings of the opera.'


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> Wagner's operas are not designed to be heard only, until you don't know them a little and in addition don't know German. When this step is passed you can taste different recordings.


No operas are "designed" to be heard only, but Wagner's scores can conjure up visual impressions of setting and atmosphere, and even describe stage action, better than almost any others. I would even go so far as to say that any staging of certain scenes will be in some respects a limitation on the evocative power of the music. I knew and loved Wagner's operas for decades before I ever saw one, and no production in a theater can match the richness of Wagner's musical imagination in creating a theater of the mind. The medium of film could do it, but only in the hands of great artists. These have yet to appear or, if they do exist, to take on the challenge. It's a great pity.

I would never discourage anyone from entering the world of opera, and especially Wagner's universe of sound, through audio recordings.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> No operas are "designed" to be heard only, but Wagner's scores can conjure up visual impressions of setting and atmosphere, and even describe stage action, better than almost any others. I would even go so far as to say that any staging of certain scenes will be in some respects a limitation on the evocative power of the music. I knew and loved Wagner's operas for decades before I ever saw one, and no production in a theater can match the richness of Wagner's musical imagination in creating a theater of the mind. The medium of film could do it, but only in the hands of great artists. These have yet to appear or, if they do exist, to take on the challenge. It's a great pity.
> 
> I would never discourage anyone from entering the world of opera, and especially Wagner's universe of sound, through audio recordings.


Everyone has his or her own experience and perception features. I'm agree with you about Wagner's music, but for me it worked this way mainly in _Der Ring_. More abstract _Lohengrin _and _Tristan und Isolde_ demanded to be seen. 
Barenboim said that one should be prepared for opera, that to come in the theater and wait for revelation is a wrong way. In case of Wagner, I believe, it's the wrongest. 
The problem of singers is great too, since Melchior and his bushbuck are in a better world.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

At the risk of sounding predictable, I'd echo the praise for Kempe here, although of the three listed by the OP, Ihave the Solti, and it's very good indeed, decent cast too....!



Woodduck said:


> No operas are "designed" to be heard only......


Being an appalling pedant for the moment, what about "Radio Opera"? I don't know of many, but a couple of shorter operas by Martinu, Comedy on the Bridge, as an example, were written just to be heard....!

I'm in two minds as to whether it is better to see an opera, especially if "seeing" means DVD or whatever. Maybe because my TV is small by today's gargantuan standards, and has poor sound built in, but I do also like to look at the libretto while listening, and I find that easier to do listening to a CD.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

CnC Bartok said:


> I'm in two minds as to whether it is better to see an opera, especially if "seeing" means DVD or whatever. Maybe because my TV is small by today's gargantuan standards, and has poor sound built in, but I do also like to look at the libretto while listening, and I find that easier to do listening to a CD.


I'd agree that opera should be experienced in the theatre but I'm not sure watching a taped production on a small TV, with some TV director deciding on close-ups and which bit they think you shoud be looking at, reproduces that experience. I'd also say that quite often these days I'd rather not sit through some unmusical director's take on a genre they don't understand. I'd rather stay at home and just listen allowing my imagination to fill in the gaps.

I'm so pleased that I first fell in love with opera back in the day when most productions respected the composer's and librettist's instructions. I was a teenager back then but I didn't need someone trying to make it more "relevant" to me or my generation by, for example, having Mimi and Rodolfo shoot up heroin during their love duet.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I voted for the Abbado recording which is my joint top favourite along with the Kempe. They are two superb recordings. The cast on the Kempe may have a slight edge (but that's really picking hairs) and the Abbado has crystal clear DG digital sound.

Which you choose for your _first _recording is an interesting question. Do you like more modern recorded sound or are you particularly into singers of the 50s/60s/70s? That will influence your pick. Personally I think both are essential.

For a DVD choice go with the one from Bayreuth directed by Werner Herzog. Good cast and the production is stunning.

N.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I have the Kempe studio recording which I've enjoyed very much but my first Lohengrin recording was the live Sawallisch CD which remains a favorite.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

I voted for Kempe. It's a glorious recording. For a DVD I'd recommend this one. It's not perfect but the production is quite beautiful. Waltraud Meier is an electrifying Ortrud (to watch). On the whole it's pretty good.


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## Georgieva (7 mo ago)

Kempe for me.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

Oh, wow ... good recommendations. The Kempe should be fine, esp. with Grummer, Christa Ludwig and Gottlob Frick ... and I'd like to put in a "good word" for the Leinsdorf/RCA. The latter, though, probably falls a bit short of the Kempe, overall.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

... as for Melchior/1935 ... maybe not the best way to absorb the opera, except for the great SINGING (and Bodanzky is quite fine, conducting). Without SOME knowledge of the "great Dane", though, you'll truly be missing one of the greatest Wagnerian singers of all time ... no question. LPs of Melchior (excerpts), in this and other Wagner operas, can be found on EBay (not expensive, usually) and they can give a BETTER idea of the "cream of the crop" of Mr. LM, at his peak. ... Just as an introduction, of sorts, try YouTube and what it has, in these excerpts, if you need to be convinced. Good luck!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

For a wild card suggestion for those who appreciate the value of a live performance and superb orchestral playing, there is this...


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## ‘Choral’ (2 mo ago)

Barbebleu said:


> Kempe. 😎


Is the VPO one or the Bayreuther one?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

‘Choral’ said:


> Is the VPO one or the Bayreuther one?


VPO, Thomas, Grümmer, Ludwig, Fischer- Dieskau, Frick. 😎


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