# Beethoven's Other Opera



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Many lament that Beethoven only wrote one opera. *However*,


> Even though Beethoven technically wrote only one opera (Fidelio, which he considered his masterwork), Christ on the Mount of Olives amounts to a miniature sacred opera.


When I listen to this "oratorio" if find it has an operatic feel. If we consider that early oratorio was done as a work-around for when the church banned opera (so I read somewhere), then oratorio is a close sibling of opera. I also read somewhere that this is Beethoven's only oratorio.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Sometimes I forget that this piece exists, and I've never actually heard ore than like thirty seconds of it. There is a recording with Wunderlich and another with Sotin and Gedda and yet another with King and Crass. Hmm...


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I found the text here with a translation: https://theoryofmusic.wordpress.com...lish-texts-of-beethovens-christus-am-olberge/

My knowledge of German is limited, but the translation is not very good in some places. I can't make heads or tails of some parts. There are even questions that are translated into non-questions.

Anyone know where to find a different translation, hopefully online?


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

adriesba said:


> Anyone know where to find a different translation, hopefully online?


Text & translation of the new Naxos recording are available online here. The translation is different, and looks reasonably reliable at a quick glance. But attention! in many places distinctly both syntax and word order still rather Teutonic are.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Beethoven, Christus am Ölberge (Christ on the Mount of Olives), Gedda, Deutekom, Sotin

I love the work , specially the one with Deutekom/Gedda


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

gvn said:


> Text & translation of the new Naxos recording are available online here. The translation is different, and looks reasonably reliable at a quick glance. But attention! in many places distinctly both syntax and word order still rather Teutonic are.


Oh thank you!  This looks so much better! The syntax doesn't bother me, but translations that are inaccurate or try to be too glamorous certainly do.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

These are formally cantatas rather than oratorios, but surprisingly good given that they are considered juvenile works: WoO 87, Cantata on the Death of Emperor Joseph II (1790) and WoO 88, Cantata on the Accession of Emperor Leopold II (1790).


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

... And then there's _Engedi, or David in the Wilderness_.

_Engedi_ is completely new English text on a different subject, which was fitted to Beethoven's _Christus_ music in the 1840s because of dissatisfaction with the original German libretto. The job was done with remarkable skill; where I've tested them, the new words fit the music beautifully. And on the literary level, I feel there's simply no contest. The original German seems to me a very pedestrian piece of doggerel. _Engedi_ looks much more stylish because it's basically adapted from the classic prose of the King James Version (like Handel's _Messiah_).

Pages 23-28 of this PDF print the German text of _Christus_ in parallel with an English translation... AND ALSO in parallel with the English text of _Engedi_.

In this age when so many pasticcios have been recorded, I suspect there might be a market for this one. What a present it would make, for music aficionados who think they have All Of Beethoven!


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

I've just finished listening to the James King recording of _Christus am Ölberge_. For the first time I deliberately tried to hear it _as_ an opera. Had no trouble at all doing so, and in fact enjoyed the work more than ever before.

I chose the James King recording because two of its soloists (King and Crass) had recorded _Fidelio_ the year before (under Böhm). This made the kinship between the two works particularly striking.

Interestingly my wife also heard parallels with Mozart's operas. For instance, Christ's first aria reminded her strongly of Constanze's "Martern aller Arten" in _Abduction from the Seraglio_--just the general style & cut of the music, the impression of a protagonist in the most desperate straits but remaining indomitable and indeed noble under the utmost pressure.

Certainly we felt it was much more akin to the operas of the period than to the oratorios of the period.



gvn said:


> The original German seems to me a very pedestrian piece of doggerel.


I take much of this back. I don't think the German is as bad as I remembered, and I think it works well enough, though I still think _Engedi_ works even better (as far as one can judge on paper).


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Check this out. Pretty impressive for a university production. Give it some likes (unless you really don't like it).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I was looking for a discussion on Beethoven's previous version of _Fidelio_, i.e. _Leonore_ from 1805. So I was thrilled when I saw this thread, Beethoven's other opera. Hmmm ... 

And this 1805 opera has been recorded several times, by *Herbert Blomstedt* (1977), *John Eliot Gardiner* (1997) and most recently by *René Jacobs* (2019).
















It is interesting to compare the two, but it will take me some time to come to some idea as to what I think of _Leonore_. 

*Does anyone have any experience with the work? What are your thoughts?*


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

The soprano part of the Angel in Christus sings elaborate operatic music not dissimilar to the music Mozart wrote for Aloysia Weber and others. It also resembles though some of Mozart's pyrotechnical concert arias.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

SanAntone said:


> I was looking for a discussion on Beethoven's previous version of _Fidelio_, i.e. _Leonore_ from 1805. So I was thrilled when I saw this thread, Beethoven's other opera. Hmmm ...
> 
> And this 1805 opera has been recorded several times, by *Herbert Blomstedt* (1977), *John Eliot Gardiner* (1997) and most recently by *René Jacobs* (2019).
> 
> ...


I have them all and my favorite is the Jacobs recording. 

1805 versions:
de Billy 
Altmann
Blomstedt
Jacobs
Leitner

1806 version:
Soustrot

Mixed version:
Gardiner


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


>


That reminds me of Handel. Not the "Hallelujah Chorus", but Handel's choral style in general. The opening sounds a little like _Zadok the Priest_. But then of course Beethoven probably considered Handel the greatest composer ever.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Yabetz said:


> Handel's choral style in general. The opening sounds a little like _Zadok the Priest_.


Personally, I don't value it more highly than, say,-
5:50




11:00


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