# Callas vs Sutherland.................



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Two greats................

Who's your preference?
Pluses? Minuses?

Certainly 2 of the greatest.

Keep it civil please. :tiphat:


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

No way... The Kalogeropoulos is up there with Melpomene herself  Sutherland is a non factor here


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Itullian goes where angels fear to tread :angel:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The falcon and the nightingale.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I was thinking this could be a poll with a third choice of "both." As good as Sutherland is, she has not captivated me yet, and admittedly I have not given her enough listening time for that to happen. Maria Callas is tops with me for sure. I love the uniqueness of Callas' voice.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

@OP the Earth Empress and the Angel Queen. they are difficult to compare (and a perfect example of why I think "dramatic coloratura soprano" is far too broad a fach encompassing voices with _completely_ different tonal characteristics, weight and capabilities), but in terms of personal tastes, I have to choose Sutherland. Maria Callas was a fiery, charismatic singer with low notes that would put baritones to shame, but Sutherland's sound was so much more effortless and _heroic_. listening to Callas is generally a more "earthly" experience, but Sutherland's voice was more fantastical. she had all the vocal grace and elegance of the bel canto school combined with the mythic, ethereal, youthful timbre of a Germanic soprano.



Florestan said:


> I was thinking this could be a poll with a third choice of *"both."* As good as Sutherland is, she has not captivated me yet, and admittedly I have not given her enough listening time for that to happen. Maria Callas is tops with me for sure. I love the uniqueness of Callas' voice.


it's kinda boring if you don't force people to pick sides.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> @OP the Earth Empress and the Angel Queen... Maria Callas was a fiery, charismatic singer with low notes that would put baritones to shame, but Sutherland's sound was so much more effortless and _heroic_. listening to Callas is generally a more "earthly" experience, but Sutherland's voice was more fantastical. she had all the vocal grace and elegance of the bel canto school combined with the mythic, ethereal, youthful timbre of a Germanic soprano.


My own preference is for Callas, and I agree with your choice of the word "earthy" in referring to her. However, I would use it more specifically to describe her unusual vocal timbre, with its complex overtones of huskiness and nasality, rather like a viola or cor anglais. It was a quality which, quite apart from her extraordinary musicality and dramatic instincts, imparted an emotional gravity and rounded human reality to music and roles which, when sung by purer, brighter voices, sounded less "serious" and significant. She knew how to exploit the timbral potential of her voice for the widest expressive range of any singer in modern times, but it was fortunate that her voice possessed innately that complexity of tone which she could alter at will in pursuit of dramatic verism. That the sound she produced could be disturbing or unbeautiful was, for many of her portrayals, a positive asset, regardless of one's personal reaction to it.

I always felt that, just as the complex timbre of Callas' voice was innately suited to imparting emotional complexity and depth to a wide variety of operatic characters, the timbre of Sutherland's militated against that. Her vocal capabilities, with respect to range and power, would have enabled her to take on many roles she avoided, but given the limited expressive capacity of her timbre and especially her nondescript lower register, I think she was wise to avoid them.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> @OP the Earth Empress and the Angel Queen. they are difficult to compare (and a perfect example of why I think "dramatic coloratura soprano" is far too broad a fach encompassing voices with _completely_ different tonal characteristics, weight and capabilities)


Callas was an assoluta: a voice with a dramatic soprano/mezzo core possessing auxiliary coloratura facility (the only other singer I can think of who fits this description is Marisa Galvany, though Shirley Verrett is similar). Joan Sutherland was the other way around: a bright, youthful coloratura soprano at the core capable of dramatic weight and authority when called upon. unlike Callas (who honestly would have sounded better singing Amneris or Delilah later in her career), Sutherland could more than "manage" coloratura singing, she hung out up there. Callas's coloratura, at least post-1950, was steelier, in terms of both temperament and vocal quality, but when she sunk into the lower register.....
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZZSOurCIAAm94a.jpg:large

of course, this is comparing them in their prime. imo, post 1975 Sutherland had matured into a full bodied dramatic soprano and post 1960 Callas had matured into a dramatic mezzo.

Edit:
*Woodduck*, exactly, hence it coming down to personal tastes. Callas brought so much novelty and unique perspective to the opera world (especially when you consider most recordings from early 20th century, which were, on average, markedly boring imo) but, while I can definitely appreciate Callas's contribution for what it was, I'm afraid my tastes are just more shallow than that. I listen to opera more to be blown away than for the subtle emotional/intellectual nuances it can also offer. at the end of the day, vocal brilliance, elegant legato and dramatic vocal force are what do it for me. however, on that note, I would not say that Sutherland's singing lacked intensity as many would imply, more that it wasn't _emotionally_ intense. her voice is like an vengeful angel queen, sounding as if she were singing down from the sky and threatening to strike you with a lightning bolt. the problem (and I think this is what you're getting at), is that that's pretty much all she could do. it's hard to play a convincing Rosina when one sings everything like a fantasy heroin holding a sword to someone's throat


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I love both singers but my emotional preference is for Sutherland for her elegant approach to the roles that she was given. Intellectually I tend to Callas for her dramatic reading despite uneven results.

I won't judge completely since I just downloaded Callas' complete studio recordings so I will add more comments whenever I get a chance to hear the whole shebang.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Callas was an assoluta: a voice with a dramatic soprano/mezzo core possessing auxiliary coloratura facility (the only other singer I can think of who fits this description is Marisa Galvany, though Shirley Verrett is similar). Joan Sutherland was the other way around: a bright, youthful coloratura soprano at the core capable of dramatic weight and authority when called upon. unlike Callas (who honestly would have sounded better singing Amneris or Delilah later in her career), Sutherland could more than "manage" coloratura singing, she hung out up there. Callas's coloratura, at least post-1950, was steelier, in terms of both temperament and vocal quality, but when she sunk into the lower register.....
> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZZSOurCIAAm94a.jpg:large
> 
> of course, this is comparing them in their prime. imo, post 1975 Sutherland had matured into a full bodied dramatic soprano and post 1960 Callas had matured into a dramatic mezzo.


I can go along with you only to a point. I don't think Sutherland ever qualified as a full dramatic soprano, though she certainly got closer to it in later years (her recording of Turandot is quite respectable). Her voice gained in "fatness" but never had the edge, the ping, the squillo - whatever you want to call it - or a strong enough lower range to make for a good Aida in the Italian repertoire or an Isolde in the German. Lord knows we've heard plenty of singers do these roles who shouldn't, but I'm glad Sutherland never attempted them. In Verdi, Violetta was heavy enough for her, and in Wagner, Elsa and Elisabeth would have been her sensible limit. I can't agree with those who say that the big Wagner roles would have been suitable for her in late career, and I say this in consideration not only of her vocal assets but her temperament as well. As for Callas, it isn't quite clear that loss of security above the staff and darkening of tone is enough to make one a mezzo; we know that she was not very comfortable recording the lowest notes of Dalila's arias. On the other hand, Carmen seemed to fit her like a glove, and Amneris and Didon might have been excellent roles for her. Too bad we didn't get to find out!


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I can go along with you only to a point. I don't think Sutherland ever qualified as a full dramatic soprano, though she certainly got closer to it in later years (her recording of Turandot is quite respectable). Her voice gained in "fatness" but never had the edge, the ping, the squillo - whatever you want to call it - or a strong enough lower range to make for a good Aida in the Italian repertoire or an Isolde in the German. Lord knows we've heard plenty of singers do these roles who shouldn't, but I'm glad Sutherland never attempted them. In Verdi, Violetta was heavy enough for her, and in Wagner, Elsa and Elisabeth would have been her sensible limit. I can't agree with those who say that the big Wagner roles would have been suitable for her in late career, and I say this in consideration not only of her vocal assets but her temperament as well.* As for Callas, it isn't quite clear that loss of security above the staff and darkening of tone is enough to make one a mezzo; we know that she was not very comfortable recording the lowest notes of Dalila's arias.* On the other hand, Carmen seemed to fit her like a glove, and Amneris and Didon might have been excellent roles for her. Too bad we didn't get to find out!


interesting, that comes as a surprise to me, because my main reason for asserting that late-career Callas was a mezzo was the ease and power she displayed in the lower register. you can't tell me this doesn't sound mezzo to you =P


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> interesting, that comes as a surprise to me, because my main reason for asserting that late-career Callas was a mezzo was the ease and power she displayed in the lower register. you can't tell me this doesn't sound mezzo to you =P


I agree that she could make some powerful sounds down there. But it was she who said she was a bit uncomfortable with Dalila's low notes. I suspect it may be a question of tessitura - of where she felt comfortable remaining for a substantial length of time, and also of the coordination of her vocal registers. As I listen to her rather painful comeback recitals in '72, I hear her carrying her chest tones uncomfortably high, compensating for a weakness or uncertainty in the lower midrange which would be deadly for a mezzo, who would have to sing a great deal in that part of the voice. The notion of singing mezzo roles was something she considered, or that was suggested to her, but she insisted that she was a soprano. Ego, stubbornness, fear - or a realistic sense of her own voice? Maybe a little of each.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I would not say that Sutherland's singing lacked intensity as many would imply, more that it wasn't _emotionally_ intense. her voice is like an vengeful angel queen, sounding as if she were singing down from the sky and threatening to strike you with a lightning bolt. The problem (and I think this is what you're getting at), is that that's pretty much all she could do.


I'll accept that! :lol: (But she could portray wistful pathos nicely too.)


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Technically, I venture to say Callas was able to do almost anything Sutherland could. Compare two performances of Ombre leggere, for example. While I am a fan of both, if I had been hard put to it, I would share the proverbial desert island with Callas


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Azol said:


> Technically, I venture to say Callas was able to do almost anything Sutherland could. Compare two performances of Ombre leggere, for example. While I am a fan of both, if I had been hard put to it, I would share the proverbial desert island with Callas


there is a difference between being able to do something and being able to do it naturally and effortlessly.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> there is a difference between being able to do something and being able to do it naturally and effortlessly.


Callas's two recordings of the piece are both natural and effortless. She even manages to make the music sound rather better than it is, so don't know what you're driving at here.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

These sort of discussions are usually pretty pointless. People tend to fall into two camps, probably because we have different priorities when listening to music. And for that reason, one side is unlikely to be able to convince the other.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't dislike Sutherland. I acknowledge the beauty of the voice, the sparkling coloratura, the ease on high. She was a considerable singer. There is no doubt about it. But it is not a voice that _speaks_ to me, and her diction, or rather the lack of it, drives me potty. It's a mannerism I just can't deal with. I also find that as one _bel canto_ heroine follows another, they all sound much the same, her Norma sounds like her Lucrezia Borgia, like her Amina, like her Maria Stuarda. Obviously this bothers her admirers less than it does me, and I don't have a problem with that, but she is just not a singer I choose to listen to much.

In any and each of the roles Sutherland and Callas both recorded complete, I would prefer Callas for her greater musical insights and dramatic sensibility, though I might prefer Sutherland in an isolated aria. (I doubt anyone, including Sutherland herself, has sung a more thrilling _Bel raggio_ than the one she sings on _The Art of the Prima Donna_).

Incidentally, there are a few ****** in Sutherland's technical mastery too. Woodduck has mentioned the weak lower register, and her _legato_ in sustained phrases in the middle register is not always particularly good. Take the beginning of the aria _Senza mamma_, in which the first phrase is usually sung in one breath (_Senza mamma o bimba tu sei morta_). Now listen to versions by Callas, De Los Angeles, Scotto and Tebaldi. All these singers trace the line from the beginning to the end in a single sustained line, the tone fully supported, the words clear and the consonants naturally placed.With Sutherland there is a slight bulge on each note, and the effect is somewhat choppy, but, paradoxically the words are less clear. Mind you, this aria also shows up a ***** in Callas's armour when the final, floated high A wobbles uncomfortably. All the other singers, including Sutherland, manage this better. I'm more inclined to forgive the wobbly high A, after a performance of ineffable beauty and sadness, others will no doubt forgive the choppy legato at the beginning for the lovely floated high A at the end. Horses for courses.

I've been working backwards through the new Callas Warner box, starting at the end, when the voice was at its weakest and moving backwards in time to the voice of the early 1950s. In fact I have just listened to the 1953 *Cavalleria Rusticana*, in which Callas's voice is as solid as a rock, multi-coloured and her interpretation musically stylish (yes, even in this _verismo_ work, with none of those vulgar accretions it often takes on. People often talk about what a great actress she was, but it's acting through the expression of the music, never simply tacked on.

What has struck me most as I listened to the set, and I listened to each disc in turn, complete operas from beginning to end, not just isolated moments, is the way she completely inhabits a role, so that singing becomes as natural a form of expression as speaking. She does not see roles as being a selection of arias, duets and ensembles loosely held together with bits of recitative, but as one piece, as likely to give as much attention to a simple aside as to a whole aria.

A few examples.
The single word _Dorme?_ in Act III of *La Boheme*, with its gentle upward portamento reduces me to shreds every time I hear it. In that one word we are aware of Mimi's love for Rodolfo, her tenderness, her selflessness.
_Giudici ad Anna_ in *Anna Bolena* which is sung with corruscating force, but somehow also with dignity. Callas's Anna never lets us forget that she is a queen.
Gilda's _Uscitene_ in *Rigoletto* when she asks the Duke to leave her. The word takes on a peculiar colour, because Gilda might say _go_, but she wants him to stay.
The single note _Ah_ at the beginning of Violetta's _Dite alla giovana_, which is the turning point in Violetta's drama, and which Callas fills with all the conflicting emotions running through her mind.
Medea's _Ricordi il giorno tu, la prima volta quando m'hai veduta?_ before she sings her first aria to Giasone, which reminds us that it is love, not revenge that brings her to Corinth.
As for *Norma* there is hardly a phrase in the whole opera that I can't hear without Callas's peculiar inflections in my mind's ear.

Singers have to be both vocalists and musicians. Callas, I think, was a musician first and vocalist second, Sutherland more likely the reverse. This is why Sutherland tends to be revered more by singers and voice specialists, Callas by musicians; Sutherland usually regarded a vocal phenomenon, Callas a musical one, which is what I respond to most.

Now that I think about it, that tends to apply to all the singers I love. This does not mean that they are not also fine technicians, but that they put their voices at the service of the music, not the other way round. Indeed it is their technique that allows them to render the score with such accuracy. In its prime, Callas's voice was an amazingly responsive instrument, and it was this responsiveness which enabled her to sing such a wide range of different roles and styles. Furthermore she was an excellent pianist and musician. She once sight sang the whole of the role of Isolde for Serafin, almost convincing him that she already knew it.

Victor De Sabata once said to Walter Legge, "If the public knew, as we do, how deeply musical she is, it would be stunned."

But I'll leave the last word with her mentor Tullio Serafin. Passing over the words Callas detractors love to quote about her not being one of his miracles (given his choices, I think he was talking voices here), I will go with this one. When someone asked him if Callas had a beautiful voice, he replied, "Do you know, I can't really tell you that. I will tell you, though, that it was always the right voice."


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> These sort of discussions are usually pretty pointless. People tend to fall into two camps, probably because we have different priorities when listening to music. And for that reason, one side is unlikely to be able to convince the other.


this implies that any discussion which is not a debate is "pointless". I disagree, people can still share their thoughts/feelings without it being pointless and without there being a right/wrong answer.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> this implies that any discussion which is not a debate is "pointless". I disagree, people can still share their thoughts/feelings without it being pointless and without there being a right/wrong answer.


I meant pointless in that one side is not going to convince the other and vice versa. And in fact that seems to be the only _point_ you have picked on in my whole post.

Experience tells me that these discussions as to the relative merits of different artists usually descend into one side baiting the other. I look forward to being proved wrong.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Not sure whether this thread is about so much persuading one side over another but set up a forum for discussion about both singers . Just keeping the peace here.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Is there any point in setting them up against each other? They always seemed to me complementary. Two great performances of Sutherland I have are the Turandot with Mehta and the Donna Anna with Guilini.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Is there any point in setting them up against each other? They always seemed to me complementary. Two great performances of Sutherland I have are the Turandot with Mehta and the Donna Anna with Guilini.


Well no there isn't really, but the OP obviously wants us to by using the term vs. They did share a lot of repertoire. Callas is reported to have spoken disparagingly about Bonynge, ("That man has set my work back 50 years") though never about Sutherland. That said, I believe she considered Caballe her rightful heir.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I meant pointless in that one side is not going to convince the other and vice versa. And in fact that seems to be the only _point_ you have picked on in my whole post.


actually, I agreed with most of what you said. in fact, you kind of elaborated on a previous post I made in this thread, so I felt no need to say anything more



> Experience tells me that these discussions as to the relative merits of different artists usually descend into one side baiting the other. I look forward to being proved wrong.


well, I've been around here less than you have, perhaps I've just missed most of the diva-ish quibbling


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The falcon and the nightingale.


The Greek Goddess and the Vestal Virgin.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

These are two wonderful singers, indeed. Both are favourites of mine.

I heard Sutherland live in the later years of her career. Clearly not at her top form, but still mighty impressive. One my treasured recordings is this "Beatrice di Tenda". I absolutely love this:






However, forced to confess which one I prefer, I'd have no option but to say Maria Callas. She never recorded the Beatrice, for instance. But I'm convinced if she would have done it, I would just close my eyes, as I almost always do when listening to Callas, and picture myself at La Fenice, in 1833, listening to Giuditta Pasta, under the approving eyes of Bellini himself.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

schigolch said:


> These are two wonderful singers, indeed. Both are favourites of mine.
> 
> I heard Sutherland live in the later years of her career. Clearly not at her top form, but still mighty impressive. One my treasured recordings is this "Beatrice di Tenda". I absolutely love this:
> 
> ...


Indeed there's a whole tranche of roles I wish Callas had sung rather than some of the ones she did. Beatrice, as you mention, Lucrezia Borgia and Maria Stuarda. More early Verdi - Odabella, Luisa Miller, Griselda and Lina in *Stifelio*, for instance.
And then in the French repertoire, Didon and Cassandre, Charlotte, Chimene. So many


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Sutherland said of Callas in a BBC interview:
[Hearing Callas in Norma in 1952] was a shock, a wonderful shock. You just got shivers up and down the spine. It was a bigger sound in those earlier performances, before she lost weight. I think she tried very hard to recreate the sort of "fatness" of the sound which she had when she was as fat as she was. But when she lost the weight, she couldn't seem to sustain the great sound that she had made, and the body seemed to be too frail to support that sound that she was making. Oh, but it was oh so exciting. It was thrilling. I don't think that anyone who heard Callas after 1955 really heard the Callas voice.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Callas's two recordings of the piece are both natural and effortless. She even manages to make the music sound rather better than it is, so don't know what you're driving at here.


Callas by and large _defines_ 'effortless'- her technique is so perfectly fused with her dramatic ability that her personae on stage (and on _cd_!) seem like vivid flesh and blood characters.

Most other singers, accomplished though they may be, just seem like 'singers' on the stage.

Callas has a verisimilitude and a realness that's unrivaled.

Her art is the art that conceals art.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> The Greek Goddess and the Vestal Virgin.


The price of being a so-called 'goddess' is so high. During a 1978 interview, upon being asked "Was it worth it to Maria Callas? She was a lonely, unhappy, often difficult woman," music critic and Callas's friend John Ardoin replied,
'That is such a difficult question. There are times when certain people are blessed-and cursed-with an extraordinary gift, in which the gift is almost greater than the human being. Callas was one of these people. It was as if her own wishes, her life, her own happiness were all subservient to this incredible, incredible gift that she was given, this gift that reached out and taught us things about music that we knew very well, but showed us new things, things we never thought about, new possibilities. I think that is why singers admire her so. I think that's why conductors admire her so. I know it's why I admire her so. And she paid a tremendously difficult and expensive price for this career. I don't think she always understood what she did or why she did it. She usually had a tremendous effect on audiences and on people. But it was not something she could always live with gracefully or happily. I once said to her "It must be a very enviable thing to be Maria Callas." And she said, "No, it's a very terrible thing to be Maria Callas, because it's a question of trying to understand something you can never really understand." She couldn't really explain what she did. It was all done by instinct. It was something embedded deep within her.'


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Like comparing the perfect chocolate cake with the best bread loaf fresh from the oven with butter. I'd be torn. I LOVE early Callas before and just after the weight loss when the gargantuan/ stratospheric top notes were still in top form. At this point she had a slight edge on Sutherland to me, but most of her recorded and video legacy are not from this era. Joan's voice was more beautiful but at that point Callas's was more thrilling. Callas continued to sing up to G5 with skill and beauty for many more years, but the top became wobbly and the astounding notes above the staff were gone or should have been. Callas' peak years were short and not well documented whereas Sutherland had a very long career and sang with great quality and with stupendous high notes till she was in her early sixties. less so afterwards. I wouldn't want to be without either.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I meant pointless in that one side is not going to convince the other and vice versa. And in fact that seems to be the only _point_ you have picked on in my whole post.
> 
> Experience tells me that these discussions as to the relative merits of different artists usually descend into one side baiting the other. I look forward to being proved wrong.


You took the words from my mouth and expressed them more eloquently than I could. However I would point out that I think these threads are started as a bit of fun. I don't think Itullian was hoping for a definitive answer to the question nor do I think (s)he was expecting one.

At best one expects some light hearted debate, perhaps some would share their experiences of the first time they heard X or saw Y perform and at worst Itullian may have been hoping to get some people a little hot under the collar but I can't say as I don't know Itullian as I am new to the forum.

@Itullian I in no way mean to suggest that you started this thread to annoy or provoke people I was just generalizing that someone might do such a thing.

Regards,

Fox


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Fox said:


> You took the words from my mouth and expressed them more eloquently than I could. However I would point out that I think these threads are started as a bit of fun. I don't think Itullian was hoping for a definitive answer to the question nor do I think (s)he was expecting one.
> 
> At best one expects some light hearted debate, perhaps some would share their experiences of the first time they heard X or saw Y perform and at worst Itullian may have been hoping to get some people a little hot under the collar but I can't say as I don't know Itullian as I am new to the forum.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on Itullian's OP. After all, he did ask people to play nice 

I hope they do, but experience tells me that when it comes to singers, people can get quite heated. I don't think we've ever been as bad here as over on the OperaList serve (or whatever it was called), where you would see such posts as, "How dare you suggest that singer A was a good (insert role of choice), when singer B absolutely owned that role?" I lasted but a few days!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> These sort of discussions are usually pretty pointless. People tend to fall into two camps, probably because we have different priorities when listening to music. And for that reason, one side is unlikely to be able to convince the other.
> 
> Contrary to popular opinion, I don't dislike Sutherland. I acknowledge the beauty of the voice, the sparkling coloratura, the ease on high. She was a considerable singer. There is no doubt about it. But it is not a voice that _speaks_ to me, and her diction, or rather the lack of it, drives me potty. It's a mannerism I just can't deal with. I also find that as one _bel canto_ heroine follows another, they all sound much the same, her Norma sounds like her Lucrezia Borgia, like her Amina, like her Maria Stuarda. Obviously this bothers her admirers less than it does me, and I don't have a problem with that, but she is just not a singer I choose to listen to much.
> 
> ...


Superb analysis. I just love your insights. You have no idea how much joy I get out of discovering and re-discovering the Art of Maria Callas.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> this implies that any discussion which is not a debate is "pointless". I disagree, people can still share their thoughts/feelings without it being pointless and without there being a right/wrong answer.


I think GM was politely saying that ultimately beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Some people are easily impressed by a beautiful timbre.

Other people want a more colorful and variegated, resplendent diamond.

It's true that its "just taste."

But 'whose taste'- and 'by what standards'?

Those are questions I constantly ask myself.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> The price of being a so-called 'goddess' is so high. During a 1978 interview, upon being asked "Was it worth it to Maria Callas? She was a lonely, unhappy, often difficult woman," music critic and Callas's friend John Ardoin replied,
> 'That is such a difficult question. There are times when certain people are blessed-and cursed-with an extraordinary gift, in which the gift is almost greater than the human being. Callas was one of these people. It was as if her own wishes, her life, her own happiness were all subservient to this incredible, incredible gift that she was given, this gift that reached out and taught us things about music that we knew very well, but showed us new things, things we never thought about, new possibilities. I think that is why singers admire her so. I think that's why conductors admire her so. I know it's why I admire her so. And she paid a tremendously difficult and expensive price for this career. I don't think she always understood what she did or why she did it. She usually had a tremendous effect on audiences and on people. But it was not something she could always live with gracefully or happily. I once said to her "It must be a very enviable thing to be Maria Callas." And she said, "No, it's a very terrible thing to be Maria Callas, because it's a question of trying to understand something you can never really understand." She couldn't really explain what she did. It was all done by instinct. It was something embedded deep within her.'


When have the gods, let alone the goddesses, been happy about _anything_?

How many people can truly _understand_ you when you're at that level?


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I agree with you on Itullian's OP. After all, he did ask people to play nice
> 
> I hope they do, but experience tells me that when it comes to singers, people can get quite heated. I don't think we've ever been as bad here as over on the OperaList serve (or whatever it was called), where you would see such posts as, "How dare you suggest that singer A was a good (insert role of choice), when singer B absolutely owned that role?" I lasted but a few days!


I'm afraid I am not familiar with other classical sites. This was the top search result on Google thus my first destination the choice was that simple. However I have greatly enjoyed my time here however brief and by the sounds of things I will not be venturing too far from Talk Classical; Thank you for the warning. 

Kind Regards,

Fox


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

DavidA said:


> Sutherland said of Callas in a BBC interview:
> *[Hearing Callas in Norma in 1952] *was a shock, a wonderful shock. You just got shivers up and down the spine. It was a bigger sound in those earlier performances, before she lost weight. I think she tried very hard to recreate the sort of "fatness" of the sound which she had when she was as fat as she was. But when she lost the weight, she couldn't seem to sustain the great sound that she had made, and the body seemed to be too frail to support that sound that she was making. Oh, but it was oh so exciting. It was thrilling. I don't think that anyone who heard Callas after 1955 really heard the Callas voice.


Sutherland has a good seat to hear Callas as Norma........


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

In the interest of keeping this subject fresh and giving everyone a few idle moments in which to think of something to say that they've never said before, I just want to interject the thought that Callas was better looking than Sutherland, but that Richard Bonynge was better looking than Giovanni Meneghini. Therefore I would much rather listen to Callas while looking at Bonynge than listen to Sutherland while looking at Meneghini. It's unfortunate that Callas went from the company of Meneghini to that of Aristotle Onassis, who was unsightly no matter who he was with, but rich enough that no one cared.

On balance, I must prefer Callas despite the deficit of masculine pulchritude which surrounded her. This is a great sacrifice to make for art. But Maria would understand.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> In the interest of keeping this subject fresh and giving everyone a few idle moments in which to think of something to say that they've never said before, I just want to interject the thought that Callas was better looking than Sutherland, but that Richard Bonynge was better looking than Giovanni Meneghini. Therefore I would much rather listen to Callas while looking at Bonynge than listen to Sutherland while looking at Meneghini. It's unfortunate that Callas went from the company of Meneghini to that of Aristotle Onassis, who was unsightly no matter who he was with, but rich enough that no one cared.
> 
> On balance, I must prefer Callas despite the deficit of masculine pulchritude which surrounded her. This is a great sacrifice to make for art. But Maria would understand.


Ari gives bestiality a bad name.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> Sutherland has a good seat to hear Callas as Norma........


Oh _behave_, DA.

Joannie's wonderful.

- and she's a goddess. . . just not 'every goddess in the Pantheon simultaneously.'

_;D_


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Technique-wise, can Sutherland do these? Everytime a friend of mine made this simplification: Callas-drama, Sutherland-technique, I showed this clip to him to shut him up:

\


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> When have the gods, let alone the goddesses, been happy about _anything_?
> 
> How many people can truly _understand_ you when you're at that level?




The problem lies not the level of your gift but in your character. The old saying, "Don't let your gift take you where your character can't keep you." We sadly have often seen highly successful artists who are less than successful as people. Sutherland did seem to manage real life a lot better than Callas.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> The problem lies not the level of your gift but in your character. The old saying, "Don't let your gift take you where your character can't keep you." We sadly have often seen highly successful artists who are less than successful as people. Sutherland did seem to manage real life a lot better than Callas.


The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.

Better ten years Callas than thirty years anyone else.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.
> 
> Better ten years Callas than thirty years anyone else.




I don't think Callas would have agreed with you from what I've read. Like a certain Archibald Alexander Leach better known as Carey Grant. When once told by an interviewer, "Everybody would like to be Cary Grant", Mr Leach is said to have replied, "So would I." we can all dream the dreams of great artists as long as we don't have to live the life they do!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

silentio said:


> Technique-wise, can Sutherland do these? Everytime a friend of mine made this simplification: Callas-drama, Sutherland-technique, I showed this clip to him to shut him up:
> 
> \


Awesome! Utterly Awesome!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I don't think Callas would have agreed with you from what I've read. Like a certain Archibald Alexander Leach better known as Carey Grant. When once told by an interviewer, "Everybody would like to be Cary Grant", Mr Leach is said to have replied, "So would I." we can all dream the dreams of great artists as long as we don't have to live the life they do!


Callas wouldn't agree with my assessment of her _talent_?

- because that's what _I_ was talking about.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Awesome! Utterly Awesome!


It really is a beautiful presentation, isn't it?

- I love how you feel about it.

That was precisely my reaction when Dark Angel first posted it at TC a while back.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Callas wouldn't agree with my assessment of her _talent_?
> 
> - because that's what _I_ was talking about.




If you look at the context we were talking about living not talent. Anyway, what's the point of having talent if you end up dying alone and unhappy? Sadly Maria appears to have done just that.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I wish Joannie had had a different conductor.
I feel Bonynge just scratched the surface of the operas depth.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Itullian said:


> I wish Joannie had had a different conductor.
> I feel Bonynge just scratched the surface of the operas depth.


Here is your wish.

Sutherland's Alcina with another awesome guy not under Bonynge.

http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Alcina-Joan-Sutherland/dp/B001G8DTEO/ref=sr_1_30?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1424652750&sr=1-30&keywords=joan+sutherland


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DarkAngel said:


> Sutherland has a good seat to hear Callas as Norma........


Looks like they sang together on several occasions. This appears to be perhaps duets between the two of them? Horrible album art by the way.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> If you look at the context we were talking about living not talent. Anyway, what's the point of having talent if you end up dying alone and unhappy? Sadly Maria appears to have done just that.


You might as well ask that question of Wagner, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler, Berlioz, Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky, Tasso, Keats, Byron, Yeats, Van Gogh, Socrates, Jesus Christ or any other creative genius or visionary who suffered for their art.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> Here is your wish.
> 
> Sutherland's Alcina with another awesome guy not under Bonynge.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Alcina-Joan-Sutherland/dp/B001G8DTEO/ref=sr_1_30?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1424652750&sr=1-30&keywords=joan+sutherland


This old _Alcina_ from 1959 sounds like a fine documentation of the pre-Bonynge Sutherland. She recorded it again in '62 under hubby, but she is said to be better here. I've only heard bits of this (Amazon sound samples), but she sounds very lively and dramatically involved, and she spits out delightful vowels and consonants that you can actually tell apart! The conductor's Baroque styling is ponderous and stiff (pre-HIP), but there's an extra treat in Fritz Wunderlich, who evidently stepped in just days before the performance.

The more I hear of young Joan the more convinced I am that she should've kept Dapper Dick at arm's length.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Here you go guys:

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Coloratura-Digitally-Remastered/dp/B0040EXWTI/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-2&qid=1424664716


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

albertfallickwang said:


> Here you go guys:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Art-Coloratura-Digitally-Remastered/dp/B0040EXWTI/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-2&qid=1424664716


So three Sutherland tracks and four Callas tracks. Unless this set has a track available nowhere else, this is a poor buy. Not even half a disc (35 minutes) of music!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Decca needs to give Stupenda a classy box set.


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## BaronScarpia (Apr 2, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The falcon and the nightingale.


Just perfect 

I love Joan Sutherland. I love her bright, technically-perfect voice, her even trill and exquisite legato, the homogeneity of her vocal registers, the warmth of her characterisations and the simple humanity she brought to opera.

I also love Maria Callas. I love her multicoloured, flawed-but-brilliant voice, her astounding musicality, the dramatic contrasts within her voice and her psychologically-complex interpretations.

I think that if one is to use alcohol to compare sopranos (you know what I mean - I'm tired), then Sutherland is Champagne, Tebaldi is Cognac and Callas is absinthe.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> You might as well ask that question of Wagner, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler, Berlioz, Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky, Tasso, Keats, Byron, Yeats, Van Gogh, Socrates, Jesus Christ or any other creative genius or visionary who suffered for their art.




Absolutely. You want to live Callas' life? I'll enjoy my grandchildren and be happy, thanks!


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

For me, listening to Sutherland is a sensual experience, while listening to Callas is more akin to an intellectual pursuit. Both kinds of experiences are valid, but in general I just would rather listen to Sutherland.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Absolutely. You want to live Callas' life? I'll enjoy my grandchildren and be happy, thanks!


On a similar note, what tends to put me off about Callas is not the actual tone (which I think was quite beautiful) but her technical shortcomings, like the register breaks (however well-disguised they were during her prime) and the wiry high notes. She was a musical genius, but I often find her...unsettling to listen to, partly because it's so hard to separate the struggles of her "real life" from her career. I just can't deny that I get more sheer pleasure from Sutherland. I do have and love several of Callas' recordings ("Mad Scenes" is my favorite), but given a choice I'd go for Sutherland over Callas in _Lucia di Lammermoor_, _I Puritani_, _Rigoletto_ and even (gasp) _Norma_ (actually, Caballe first and then Sutherland). I'm not denying that Callas was truly great in all of these roles, and it may well be that I'm not as "deep" a person as several people on this forum (not trying to be snarky here; I mean this seriously), but...that's just the way it is.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I like the story when someone asked Sutherland about the way prima donnas supposedly act. Her reply went something like: "In the family I was brought up in if you acted like a prima donna you were sent to bed without any supper!"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> and it may well be that I'm not as "deep" a person as several people on this forum (not trying to be snarky here; I mean this seriously), but...that's just the way it is.


I think it just means that we (you and I in this instance) listen to opera in different ways and have different priorities.


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## AndyS (Dec 2, 2011)

To me, they both bring something different to the table, and my preference just depends on what mood I'm in. Both very unique singers, and both deserve to be held in the regard that they are.

I suppose it comes to that I'm more an admirer of the bel canto repertoire than a fan, and so the 'overlap' roles of these two aren't anything I listen to that often (other than their Verdi roles, where my preferences would be with Callas). I actually think that Sutherland's Turandot is one of the very best things she's done, and Esclarmonde... just wow. Similarly, I could never be without Callas' Tosca or Leonora


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am so pleased to see no flame wars over this and so many responders are like me and love both of them for different reasons. Can we imagine a world without either of them? The opera world would be so much poorer. I think it would have been great to have heard both of them at their peak in opposing roles in Maria Stuarda, with optional high notes all over the place. Callas as Maria.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am so pleased to see no flame wars over this and so many responders are like me and love both of them for different reasons. Can we imagine a world without either of them? The opera world would be so much poorer. I think it would have been great to have heard both of them at their peak in opposing roles in Anna Bollena, with optional high notes all over the place.


Except that the role of Jane Seymour calls for a mezzo and while that was closer to Callas' range towards the end of her career, I just can't see her playing second fiddle to Sutherland.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Becca said:


> Except that the role of Jane Seymour calls for a mezzo and while that was closer to Callas' range towards the end of her career, I just can't see her playing second fiddle to Sutherland.


You are going to think less of me, but I meant Maria Stuarda. I get them confused. Sutherland as the Queen and Callas as Maria.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I like the story when someone asked Sutherland about the way prima donnas supposedly act. Her reply went something like: "In the family I was brought up in if you acted like a prima donna you were sent to bed without any supper!"


I like that quote, too. The Sutherlands were Scottish Presbyterians, so that story sounds pretty characteristic.

If anyone wants to go over to the blog, I've just posted an "appreciation" essay I've written about Sutherland's early recording of _La Traviata_, the one with Bergonzi and Merrill.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are going to think less of me, but I meant Maria Stuarda. I get them confused. Sutherland as the Queen and Callas as Maria.


I wouldn't have minded hearing Sutherland sing Adalgisa to Callas's Norma.

That reminds me however that Legge relates that he once broached the idea of casting Callas and Tebaldi in *Norma* and getting them to alternate the roles of Norma and Adalgisa. Callas was quite excited by the idea (presumably because she knew that, in this repertoire at least, she would easily outclass Tebaldi). Tebaldi, understandably, flatly refused.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> I like that quote, too. The Sutherlands were Scottish Presbyterians, so that story sounds pretty characteristic.
> 
> If anyone wants to go over to the blog, I've just posted an "appreciation" essay I've written about Sutherland's early recording of _La Traviata_, the one with Bergonzi and Merrill.


Sutherland came across as a jolly lady with her feet on the ground. Of course, that's just my impression!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> I like that quote, too. The Sutherlands were Scottish Presbyterians, so that story sounds pretty characteristic.
> 
> If anyone wants to go over to the blog, I've just posted an "appreciation" essay I've written about Sutherland's early recording of _La Traviata_, the one with Bergonzi and Merrill.


Sutherland came across as a jolly lady with her feet on the ground. Of course, that's just my impression!


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Sutherland may be sublime for many people, but not for me. Instead I love Maria Callas so much, I almost don't know why. Actually I find Maria the best Rosina, Violetta, Norma, Gilda. She sang Wagner and Bellini within a few days notice...Probably that killed her voice later in life. Still she is La DIVINA.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

sabrina said:


> Sutherland may be sublime for many people, but not for me. Instead I love Maria Callas so much, I almost don't know why. Actually I find Maria the best Rosina, Violetta, Norma, Gilda. She sang Wagner and Bellini within a few days notice...Probably that killed her voice later in life. Still she is La DIVINA.


I am really taken in by Callas and after Callas I really like Mariella Devia, who definitely is underrated.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Sutherland came across as a jolly lady with her feet on the ground. Of course, that's just my impression!


I think she was, but she could have a bit of prima donna steel on occasion. There is a story (maybe apocryphal, who knows?) of a rehearsal going on rather later than expected. Sutherland decided she'd had enough and stated she was off.

"Maria would stay until we got it right," ventured the director (I don't know who it was).

"I'm not Maria, and anyway she's not singing so well these days!" And she was off.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Absolutely. You want to live Callas' life? I'll enjoy my grandchildren and be happy, thanks!


Don't be silly.

I want to _shop_ and _spend_ and travel and_ fete_- with family and friends- infinitely and endlessly.

Shop-o-holic takes the_ World_. _;D_



















Callas is my soundtrack to life.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Don't be silly.
> 
> I want to _shop_ and _spend_ and travel and_ fete_- with family and friends- infinitely and endlessly.
> 
> ...




What all those tragic heroines of whom she was one? I'll take my family any day!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DavidA said:


> What all those tragic heroines of whom she was one? I'll take my family any day!


Yeah, Her life story could be a tragic opera, just that it is passively tragic, no murders, just a slow and sad demise after a brilliant career as the greatest, perhaps ever (we don't have recordings far enough back in time to judge it), female operatic singer/performer. But you have to admit she hung in there strong still singing absolutely wonderfully even after weight loss affected her voice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The top of Callas' voice was severely compromised after the mid 50's. Losing weight and not being able to learn how to breath as effectively again after the loss of her belly fat was surely part of it, but so was singing Tosca and big Verdi roles from her late teens on plus the scores and scores of Turandots she sang while still in her 20's before the voice was fully mature. She also supposedly was suffering from a degenerative disease which effected her breathing. All were valid contributing factors to the ruination of the once magnificent top of Callas' voice. Sutherland's long career can be attributed to her being much more sensible. Her poor diction and covered tone were believed to have been techniques Bonynge encouraged to prolong her singing career... and they worked.Singing coloratura roles even though she was capable of singing big Verdi roles, kept her voice supremely healthy over the long haul. Even though Joan's voice aged, she had spectacular high D's until her early 60's, an astonishing feat.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The top of Callas' voice was severely compromised after the mid 50's. Losing weight and not being able to learn how to breath as effectively again after the loss of her belly fat was surely part of it, but so was singing Tosca and big Verdi roles from her late teens on plus the scores and scores of Turandots she sang while still in her 20's before the voice was fully mature. She also supposedly was suffering from a degenerative disease which effected her breathing. All were valid contributing factors to the ruination of the once magnificent top of Callas' voice. Sutherland's long career can be attributed to her being much more sensible. Her poor diction and covered tone were believed to have been techniques Bonynge encouraged to prolong her singing career... and they worked.Singing coloratura roles even though she was capable of singing big Verdi roles, kept her voice supremely healthy over the long haul. Even though Joan's voice aged, she had spectacular high D's until her early 60's, an astonishing feat.


It's debatable whether bad diction is a pre-requisite for a long career. Maggie Teyte sang into her 60s, with a voice hardly affected by the passage of time, the top as pure and clear as a bell at 60 as it was in her 20s. She also had superb diction. A very different singer of course, with a light voice, well suited to the music she sang (Debussy, Mozart, Messager, Offenbach etc), but she did sing Butterfly, Manon and Eva, so the voice must have been reasonably substantial.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> It's debatable whether bad diction is a pre-requisite for a long career. Maggie Teyte sang into her 60s, with a voice hardly affected by the passage of time, the top as pure and clear as a bell at 60 as it was in her 20s. She also had superb diction. A very different singer of course, with a light voice, well suited to the music she sang (Debussy, Mozart, Messager, Offenbach etc), but she did sing Butterfly, Manon and Eva, so the voice must have been reasonably substantial.


Definitely, and Teyte did _Thais_ too! I have a recital of her at 60s doing excerpts from Salome (in French), and singing excerpts for _all_ the roles in _Pelléas_ (including Arkel)! As Greg pointed out, her diction is crystalline, and all of the registers are well-supported. Just a side note: She was supposed to sing _Salomé_ some time in the 1930s, and many connoisseurs had predicted that she would make a fabulous Salomé. After all, Strauss himself was very fond of the idea of casting Elizabeth Schumann, a relatively thin voice with silvery tone and clear diction in the title role. And then he also prepared a decent version of Salome in French, which certainly has some Pelléas flavors in it. Anyways, it would be a dream to have Dame Teyte singing the entire opera.

http://www.amazon.com/Maggie-Teyte-.../tracks/B000003LJW/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1

Another example I can think of is Ingeborg Hallstein, whose coloratura is as accurate as if it is manipulated by the current digital technology! However, her diction is exemplary, and - very similar to Fritz Wunderlich and De Los Angeles- the legato lines are always perfect, the interpretations are unaffected but never bland. I heard that, she too had a long career.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> Definitely, and Teyte did _Thais_ too! I have a recital of her at 60s doing excerpts from Salome (in French), and singing excerpts for _all_ the roles in _Pelléas_ (including Arkel)! As Greg pointed out, her diction is crystalline, and all of the registers are well-supported. Just a side note: She was supposed to singing _Salomé_ some time in the 1930s, and many connoisseurs had predicted that she would make a fabulous Salomé. After all, Strauss himself was very fond of the idea to cast Elizabeth Schumann, a relatively thin voice with silvery tone and clear diction in the title role. And then he also prepared a decent version of Salome in French, which certainly has some Pelléas flavors in it. Anyways, it would be a dream to have Dame Teyte singing the entire opera.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Maggie-Teyte-.../tracks/B000003LJW/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1
> 
> Another example I can thing of is Ingeborg Hallstein, whose coloratura is as accurate as if it is manipulated by the current digital technology! However, her diction is exemplary, and - very similar to Fritz Wunderlich and De Los Angeles- the legato lines are always perfect, the interpretations are unaffected but never bland. I heard that, she too had a long career.


I don't have that Teyte disc. How have I avoided it? Damn! More money!


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I don't have that Teyte disc. How have I avoided it? Damn! More money!


Just get it, Greg! The _Les Illuminations_ will put many tenors to shame


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> It's debatable whether bad diction is a pre-requisite for a long career. Maggie Teyte sang into her 60s, with a voice hardly affected by the passage of time, the top as pure and clear as a bell at 60 as it was in her 20s. She also had superb diction. A very different singer of course, with a light voice, well suited to the music she sang (Debussy, Mozart, Messager, Offenbach etc), but she did sing Butterfly, Manon and Eva, so the voice must have been reasonably substantial.


Okay, I am going to retract and say that my old mind now recalls that Bonynge was more interested in the beauty of the vocal line than in diction. Sutherland began with fine diction but it slurred later on. I don't understand the languages so I don't care. Of course, Maria had great diction and great legato, but she was, well, Callas. Whether this added to Joan's longevity I can't say. I'm getting old Gave you an opening for a good post on someone I don't know.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> Just get it, Greg! The _Les Illuminations_ will put many tenors to shame


I actually prefer a woman in the songs. They were, after all, written with a woman's voice in mind. I have a gorgeous version with Felicity Lott and another with Christina Hogmann, which is also lovely, but I'd love to hear Dame Maggie in them too.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Okay, I am going to retract and say that my old mind now recalls that Bonynge was more interested in the beauty of the vocal line than in diction. Sutherland began with fine diction but it slurred later on. I don't understand the languages so I don't care. Of course, Maria had great diction and great legato, but she was, well, Callas. Whether this added to Joan's longevity I can't say. I'm getting old Gave you an opening for a good post on someone I don't know.


Maybe a singer with whom you should become acquainted then. 

Not a big voice, though, so she may not appeal to you. (I get the impression that your preference is for big voices.)

She studied the role of Melisande with Debussy and made famous recordings of his songs with Alfred Cortot. She is one of my favourite singers.

Back on topic and I find Sutherland's appalling diction in the Bonygne period hard to deal with. Even when she is singing a language I don't understand, I like to be able to hear what language that is. With La Stupenda, you'd sometime be hard pressed to know whether she was singing in Urdu or Italian. This seems to me to be a technical fault. People often go on about her faultless technique, but it was far from faultless. The inability to sound consonants and her reduction of every vowel to a sort of "aw" sound seems to be me to be a technical problem. Nor was her legato singing faultless. Yes her fluidity in coloratura means that she can sing seamless runs without the hint of an aspirate (something I extravagantly admire) and her security and ease on high is a joy to the ear, but in the middle voice, her legato is not always so secure. Take a passage like the first line of Angelica's _Senza mamma_. Listen to Sutherland and then to, say, Callas, Scotto, Freni, Caballe, Tebaldi or Gheorghiu, and you will find that all these singers hold the line more firmly, whereas Sutherland has to put a little stress on each syllable to get the words out, and yet, with each of the other singers I listed, the words are much easier to make out.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

GregMitchell said:


> I don't have that Teyte disc. How have I avoided it? Damn! More money!


How's this for spending money? This poster is on ebay at $1600 USD right now.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Florestan said:


> How's this for spending money? This poster is on ebay at $1600 USD right now.


Money _well_ spent. _;D_ - thanks for posting this.

I love that dignified, aristocratic, fierce look on her face.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Money _well_ spent. _;D_ - thanks for posting this.
> 
> I love that dignified, aristocratic, fierce look on her face.


I say it ranks among the most beautiful photos of Callas.

Now here is a fine poster at a much more reasonable price. Select a size and the price varies down to $3.99:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

silentio said:


> Definitely, and Teyte did _Thais_ too! I have a recital of her at 60s doing excerpts from Salome (in French), and singing excerpts for _all_ the roles in _Pelléas_ (including Arkel)! As Greg pointed out, her diction is crystalline, and all of the registers are well-supported. Just a side note: She was supposed to sing _Salomé_ some time in the 1930s, and many connoisseurs had predicted that she would make a fabulous Salomé. After all, Strauss himself was very fond of the idea of casting Elizabeth Schumann, a relatively thin voice with silvery tone and clear diction in the title role. And then he also prepared a decent version of Salome in French, which certainly has some Pelléas flavors in it. Anyways, it would be a dream to have Dame Teyte singing the entire opera.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Maggie-Teyte-.../tracks/B000003LJW/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1
> 
> Another example I can think of is Ingeborg Hallstein, whose coloratura is as accurate as if it is manipulated by the current digital technology! However, her diction is exemplary, and - very similar to Fritz Wunderlich and De Los Angeles- the legato lines are always perfect, the interpretations are unaffected but never bland. I heard that, she too had a long career.


I just ordered the Teyte. Thanks for the honorable mention, silentio. _;D_

I just love this woman's singing.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Okay, I am going to retract and say that my old mind now recalls that Bonynge was more interested in the beauty of the vocal line than in diction.


Cumshaw said in his memoirs that Bonynge was a great vocal coach but he didn't pay as much attention to the words as the line. Hence he said, "It was sometimes difficult to make out what Joan was singing."


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The way I see it neither Callas or Sutherland would win an articulation contest.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> The way I see it neither Callas or Sutherland would win an articulation contest.


Of course not.

Divina's subsumed into a class of her own.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I find Sutherland's appalling diction in the Bonygne period hard to deal with. Even when she is singing a language I don't understand, I like to be able to hear what language that is. With La Stupenda, you'd sometime be hard pressed to know whether she was singing in Urdu or Italian. *This seems to me to be a technical fault.* People often go on about her faultless technique, but it was far from faultless. The inability to sound consonants and her reduction of every vowel to a sort of "aw" sound seems to be me to be a technical problem. Nor was her legato singing faultless. Yes her fluidity in coloratura means that she can sing seamless runs without the hint of an aspirate (something I extravagantly admire) and her security and ease on high is a joy to the ear, but in the middle voice, her legato is not always so secure. Take a passage like the first line of Angelica's _Senza mamma_. Listen to Sutherland and then to, say, Callas, Scotto, Freni, Caballe, Tebaldi or Gheorghiu, and you will find that all these singers hold the line more firmly, whereas Sutherland has to put a little stress on each syllable to get the words out, and yet, with each of the other singers I listed, the words are much easier to make out.


As a former singer, I second Greg's assertion that poor diction can represent a fault of technique. Articulation of vowels and consonants involves the use of different muscles from those used in the production of tone, and if these muscular functions affect each other inappropriately - if they are not able to function independently - diction will suffer. The fact that Sutherland's diction was better before Bonynge got hold of her suggests that this need not have been a problem for her, and we probably can't know for sure how much the bad habit became a muscular habit. In any case we know that poor diction is not necessary for career longevity. Great singers with beautiful diction, fine technique, and long careers are easy to cite; in addition to those mentioned above I might note Elisabeth Grummer, Tito Schipa, and Kirsten Flagstad, and in fact most singers from before WW II. The ability to sustain the emission of free, pure tone unaffected by the formation, with lips and tongue, of clear words seems to be an art in decline.

Singing - and the use of words to make _music_ - like this is revelatory:















 (here is a Norwegian singing English that puts many a native speaker to shame)


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> In any and each of the roles Sutherland and Callas both recorded complete, I would prefer Callas for her greater musical insights and dramatic sensibility, though I might prefer Sutherland in an isolated aria. (I doubt anyone, including Sutherland herself, has sung a more thrilling _Bel raggio_ than the one she sings on _The Art of the Prima Donna_).


you managed to pick the _one_ Sutherland recording which I actually thought was overrated  to be honest, I actually prefer bel raggio sung by a _mezzo_ (yes, it's weird, but I do XD). my favorite two bel raggio recordings are:


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

hpowders said:


> The way I see it neither Callas or Sutherland would win an articulation contest.


Which soprano would beat Callas in our hypothetical contest, then? (Clue: not Sutherland.)


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Which soprano would beat Callas in our hypothetical contest, then? (Clue: not Sutherland.)


In her own territory (Verdi, Bel Canto, and even Gluck, Puccini and Massenet)? None, at least for sopranos we have their recordings.

But, as "whatever you are, be a good one", I would nominate some of her equals: Elisabeth Schwarzkopf in Mozart and light Strauss, Astrid Varnay in Wagner and heavy Strauss, and Ingeborg Hallstein in soubrette stuffs.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

the way I see it
*Joan Sutherland:* the greatest *singer* of the 20th century.
*Maria Callas:* the greatest *diva* of the 20th century.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

hpowders said:


> The way I see it neither Callas or Sutherland would win an articulation contest.


Extraordinary you should say that. Callas's diction was extremely good in both Italian and French. And Callas always worked off the words in a way Sutherland did not. Quite frankly I find that assertion absolutely astonishing. Off the top of my head I can think of any amount of places where Callas brings the words to life.

_Giudici ad Anna! Giudici ad Anna! Ad Anna_
_O patrria, patria, quanto mi costi. O patria, quanto mi costi_
_Ecco il velen di Laura._
_Son io che cosi torturate. Si, l'anima mi torturate_
_O toglietemi la vita, o rendetemi il mio amor_
_Turiddu mi tolse, mi tolse l'onore_

That's without pausing for breath and I can hear Callas's accents and the way she bites into the words in my mind's ear without even playing the records.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> the way I see it *
> Joan Sutherland: the greatest singer of the 20th century. *
> *Maria Callas:* the greatest *diva* of the 20th century.


 Seriously? Did you click on any of Woodduck's links? IMO Sutherland isn't even the best singer mentioned on this thread (even though that may well be comparing apples with oranges). I mean, she's fine, but the best singer active between 1900 and 1999???


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Extraordinary you should say that. Callas's diction was extremely good in both Italian and French. And Callas always worked off the words in a way Sutherland did not. Quite frankly I find that assertion absolutely astonishing. Off the top of my head I can think of any amount of places where Callas brings the words to life.
> 
> _Giudici ad Anna! Giudici ad Anna! Ad Anna_
> _O patrria, patria, quanto mi costi. O patria, quanto mi costi_
> ...


Callas' diction, elocution, and _delivery_ are _sui generis_.

When I hear the way she sings those lines you just mentioned, I_ never_ forget them.

Adding to that, take Callas' _Medea_, for instance:

_Che faro? A! Vo' fuggir.
Io lascio i figli miei,
il sangue mio diletto,
in man dell'infame!
Preceder ei mi puo,
puo ferir pria di me! No!
compiero l'impresa
che il fato me die!
Oh, fosca Erinni! Implacabile dea!_

_What shall I do? I'll run away.
I'll leave my children,
my beloved flesh and blood,
in the hands of that miscreant.
He might get there first
and strike before me! No!
I shall complete the task
that fate has given me!
Oh, dark Fury! Implacable goddess!_

I still get chills to this_ day_ when I hear her '53 Florence singing of these lines.

As Carly says, "No one does it better!"

_;D_


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Callas' diction, elocution, and _delivery_ are _sui generis_.
> 
> When I hear the way she sings those lines you just mentioned, I_ never_ forget them.
> 
> ...




And it's not only the dramatic roles.

_Mi lasio reggere, mi fo guidar, MA!_
_Povero sciocco! L'avrà da far con me..._
_Siete Turchi, non vi credo_
_Ed osate minacciarmi, maltrattarmi, spaventarmi_

It's not just the words I remember, but Callas's particular inflections.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

> And it's not only the dramatic roles.
> 
> _Mi lasio reggere, mi fo guidar, MA!_
> _Povero sciocco! L'avrà da far con me..._
> ...


While it is very true that Rosina calls for a mezzo and Callas was not in that range when she made this recording, I still use her understanding of those words as the touchstone for everyone else. "Nobody does it better" indeed! And that said by someone who plays the Berganza as often as the Callas (Unlike some other  I am not blessed with a large assortment of Barbieres!)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> And it's not only the dramatic roles.
> 
> _Mi lasio reggere, mi fo guidar, MA!_
> _Povero sciocco! L'avrà da far con me..._
> ...


Once you've heard them, they seem so much a part of the music that it feels odd when other people don't use them, but plagiaristic when they do. Heads they lose, tails they lose.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> While it is very true that Rosina calls for a mezzo and Callas was not in that range when she made this recording, I still use her understanding of those words as the touchstone for everyone else. "Nobody does it better" indeed! And that said by someone who plays the Berganza as often as the Callas (Unlike some other  I am not blessed with a large assortment of Barbieres!)


Although she adds a few higher variants, Callas does at least perform the role in the original mezzo keys.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Cumshaw said in his memoirs that Bonynge was a great vocal coach but he didn't pay as much attention to the words as the line. Hence he said, "It was sometimes difficult to make out what Joan was singing."


I entered this twice saying 'Culshaw' but my wretched text keeps putting 'Cumshaw'. It is a shame Bonynge became her conductor because we never really heard much of Sutherland under really great conductors. Apparently Decca tried to persuade Bonynge to have lessons in conducting as he was so much of a novice but he wouldn't hear of it. Apparently he was oblivious to the shafts of irony from his experienced orchestral musicians!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I entered this twice saying 'Culshaw' but my wretched text keeps putting 'Cumshaw'. It is a shame Bonynge became her conductor because we never really heard much of Sutherland under really great conductors. Apparently Decca tried to persuade Bonynge to have lessons in conducting as he was so much of a novice but he wouldn't hear of it. Apparently he was oblivious to the shafts of irony from his experienced orchestral musicians!


That's interesting about trying to urge Bonynge to study conducting. I can't imagine he was pleased at the suggestion! I will say for him that he emerged as an effective conductor of lighter music; I have his recording of Delibes' _Sylvia_, among other things, and find it about as good as any I've heard. Alas, we'll never get to hear his Bruckner 8th.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> That's interesting about trying to urge Bonynge to study conducting. I can't imagine he was pleased at the suggestion! I will say for him that he emerged as an effective conductor of lighter music; I have his recording of Delibes' _Sylvia_, among other things, and find it about as good as any I've heard. Alas, we'll never get to hear his Bruckner 8th.


Culshaw suggested he studied under Monteux or Szell, who were both willing to give lessons, although he remarked, "Szell would no doubt have given Bonynge a harder time!" Knowing Szell's fearsome reputation, no doubt!


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Sutherland's height and extra reach would be the crucial difference. I'd expect Callas to be TKO'd by the third round.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Wouldn't even be a fight. Callas would just vituperate her into unconsciousness.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I guess Callas would just let loose the high Eb....fight's over, folks.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

"No operatic star has yet died soon enough for me."

Thomas Beecham


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> "No operatic star has yet died soon enough for me."
> 
> Thomas Beecham


"I've never met Sir Thomas, but I may have stepped in him."

- Marschallin Blair


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> I guess Callas would just let loose the high Eb....fight's over, folks.


Sutherland's Eb owns Callas's Eb. Callas had a powerful Eb in her prime, but it didn't *ring* the way Sutherland's did, and Sutherland could turn around and sing 20 more just like it.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

DavidA said:


> "No operatic star has yet died soon enough for me."
> 
> Thomas Beecham


Miserable old git! (Beecham, that is, not David A.) :angel:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Miserable old git! (Beecham, that is, not David A.) :angel:


I _like_ Sir Thomas. Its just that when he starts acting like Pierre Boulez I have to take him down a peg or two.

Opera's sacred.

Beecham's amusement.

_;D_


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Sutherland's Eb owns Callas's Eb. Callas had a powerful Eb in her prime, but it didn't *ring* the way Sutherland's did, and Sutherland could turn around and sing 20 more just like it.


If you take "ring" to mean bell-like, then you might have a point. Callas's top notes, at least in her early career, have a lot more visceral excitement to them.

Sutherland, at no time in her career, could have delivered the thrilling pyrotechnics you get from Callas in *Armida* in 1952. Nor did her top notes have anything like the steely power of Callas's in her 1949 *Nabucco*, which also includes a top Eb in the duet with Nabucco. And then of course there is that amazing top Eb in the Nile Scene from *Aida* in 1950 and in 1951.

Her top Ds in the first act of *Norma* have a terrific ring to them, so too does that ringing top D in the Finale of Act I of *Anna Bolena*, and that's as late as 1957.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> If you take "ring" to mean bell-like, then you might have a point. Callas's top notes, at least in her early career, have a lot more visceral excitement to them.
> 
> Sutherland, at no time in her career, could have delivered the thrilling pyrotechnics you get from Callas in *Armida* in 1952. Nor did her top notes have anything like the steely power of Callas's in her 1949 *Nabucco*, which also includes a top Eb in the duet with Nabucco. And then of course there is that amazing top Eb in the Nile Scene from *Aida* in 1950 and in 1951.
> 
> Her top Ds in the first act of *Norma* have a terrific ring to them, so too does that ringing top D in the Finale of Act I of *Anna Bolena*, and that's as late as 1957.


Absolutely, 'absolutely.'

Callas' _Nabucco_ is pure 'falcon' and her _Armida_ is pure dramatic coloratura _par excellence_ such as I've never heard before or since.

Off the charts _power_.

Off the charts _suppleness_.

Off the charts legato, timbre, trilling, and scaling agility.

Sutherland in her late-fifties, early-sixties stratospheric_ prime _plays the Foxbat to Callas' SR-71 Blackbird.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> If you take "ring" to mean bell-like, then you might have a point. Callas's top notes, at least in her early career, have a lot more visceral excitement to them.
> 
> Sutherland, at no time in her career, could have delivered the thrilling pyrotechnics you get from Callas in *Armida* in 1952. Nor did her top notes have anything like the steely power of Callas's in her 1949 *Nabucco*, which also includes a top Eb in the duet with Nabucco. And then of course there is that amazing top Eb in the Nile Scene from *Aida* in 1950 and in 1951.
> 
> Her top Ds in the first act of *Norma* have a terrific ring to them, so too does that ringing top D in the Finale of Act I of *Anna Bolena*, and that's as late as 1957.


that's a good point. yes, I did mean bell-like, since those are the kinds of top notes I prefer. granted, they need to have a reasonable amount of power behind them (most lyric coloratura sopranos bore me after a few minutes lol), but Sutherland's dramatic soprano sized voice had plenty. to my ears, steely top notes sound forced, almost as if they are scraping against something. occasionally, I enjoy the grittier, more edgy quality they can bring to a performance, but I prefer top notes to be free, spinning, radiant. this is, of course, a matter of tastes.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> that's a good point. yes, I did mean bell-like, since those are the kinds of top notes I prefer. granted, they need to have a reasonable amount of power behind them (most lyric coloratura sopranos bore me after a few minutes lol), but Sutherland's dramatic soprano sized voice had plenty. to my ears, steely top notes sound forced, almost as if they are scraping against something. occasionally, I enjoy the grittier, more edgy quality they can bring to a performance, but I prefer top notes to be free, spinning, radiant. this is, of course, a matter of tastes.


I a-_dore_ vintage Sutherland- and Dame Joan was my favorite singer before I discovered vintage Divina.

So I know exactly what you're talking about with Joannie.

- and I_ LOVE _her.

I just love Divina more.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I _like_ Sir Thomas. Its just that when he starts acting like Pierre Boulez I have to take him down a peg or two.
> 
> Opera's sacred.
> 
> ...




Can never imagine Beecham acting like Boulez. I mean, Beecham had a sense of humour for a start!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> Miserable old git! (Beecham, that is, not David A.) :angel:


Asked his opinion of a university setting up a chair of musical criticism, Beecham replied: "If there is to be a chair for critics, I think it had better be an electric chair."


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I _like_ Sir Thomas. Its just that when he starts acting like Pierre Boulez I have to take him down a peg or two.
> 
> Opera's sacred.
> 
> ...




I did not care for what he did to Handel's Messiah, but that's his business and I won't listen to his re-orchestration.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Florestan said:


> I did not care for what he did to Handel's Messiah, but that's his business and I won't listen to his re-orchestration.


I do! The Hallelujah Chorus especially! And Vickers singing 'Thou Shalt Break Them!' fantastic!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> "I've never met Sir Thomas, but I may have stepped in him."
> 
> - Marschallin Blair




And anyway, mezzos have such fun: we get to play all the witches and bitches!

--Elina Garanca


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

“If I were a dictator I should make it compulsory for every member of the population between the ages of four and eighty to listen to Morzart for at least a quarter of an hour daily for the coming five years.” (Thomas Beecham)


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

DavidA said:


> "If I were a dictator I should make it compulsory for every member of the population between the ages of four and eighty to listen to Morzart for at least a quarter of an hour daily for the coming five years." (Thomas Beecham)


Can't you read? The score demands 'con amore,' and what are you doing? You are playing it like married men!

--Arturo Toscanini


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Florestan said:


> I did not care for what he did to Handel's Messiah, but that's his business and I won't listen to his re-orchestration.


Of course Beecham had a spectacular row with Sutherland in his recording of Messiah and demanded she be replaced, which she was. John Culshaw tried to make peace but Beecham raved on about the musicologists who had castrated Messiah beyond recognition with their small forces. He said that "handel would have used hundreds of people, thousands of people - but not that Australian woman!" Culshaw said he found Beecham's rant totally irresponsible but totally irresistible!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Whatever one thinks about Beecham, he was a real character, one of those English eccentrics who no longer seems to exist. One of my favourite stories involves him and a taxi. He was walking somewhere in London on a warm spring day and hailed a taxi. He took off his coat and threw it into the back of the taxi.

"Follow me round," he said. "It might get cold again."


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is a speech on Callas which I did at my Toastmaster's club this morning. Most are not knowledgeable about opera so I have to bring it down to their level...and they got it!!!! It was well received.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> This is a speech on Callas which I did at my Toastmaster's club this morning. Most are not knowledgeable about opera so I have to bring it down to their level...and they got it!!!! It was well received.


Nice, what is the Toastmaster's club? Is it a forum for only classical music?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Oh, no. Most are ignorant about opera. Toastmasters International is a worldwide organization devoted to the art of public speaking. I've done 80 speeches now, 16 of them on opera, many on Youtube. My speech on Sutherland 



 is my most popular on opera. My speeches on working dogs have the most views by far, one with over 1000 views now I believe.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Oh, no. Most are ignorant about opera. Toastmasters International is a worldwide organization devoted to the art of public speaking. I've done 80 speeches now, 16 of them on opera, many on Youtube. My speech on Sutherland
> 
> 
> 
> is my most popular on opera. My speeches on working dogs have the most views by far, one with over 1000 views now I believe.


Very nice. I enjoyed the Callas presentation.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

You look nothing like Nilsson.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> This is a speech on Callas which I did at my Toastmaster's club this morning. Most are not knowledgeable about opera so I have to bring it down to their level...and they got it!!!! It was well received.


I can't edit this post but I trimmed my video a bit and they gave me a new urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLVWObMvAYI


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

for any of you who thought Joan Sutherland's singing lacked intensity:


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