# Round 2: Wenn dein Mutterlein. Baker, Ferrier



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon helped me find a competitor for Ferrier. I love the photo of Ferrier. It was said her mouth cavity was so cavernous you could push an apple to the back of her throat easily.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Sir John Barbirolli made the interesting decision to conduct the orchestral introduction, interlude and postlude of this song at a tempo markedly slower than the one accorded Baker in the sung portions, where her tempo is approximately that of the Ferrier performance. I don't think Mahler asks for this, and given the abundance of expression marks in his scores we may assume that it's contrary to his wishes, or at least to his intial conception. Nevertheless, I find it quite effective and am not tempted to make a Beckmesser scratch with my chalk. Baker sings and interprets impeccably too, and I find the performance altogether lovely and satisfying.

I haven't always been a fan of Ferrier's unique timbre and style, and I'm not particularly a lover of Mahler, but there's something about this composer performed by this singer that I find peculiarly moving. Here her deep, androgynous tones are as mournful as a cor anglais, and there's a paradoxical mix of strength and vulnerability, perhaps enhanced by a touch of effortfulness at the top of the voice, which grips me and touches me deeply. Baker's vocal mastery and superb artistry are beyond criticism, but feel a touch more considered, more controlled, refined and genteel, perhaps even too perfect to project fully the bleak grief of bereavement that flows, disarmed and innocent, from Ferrier like a gift of nature.

It's hard to have to choose between two such performances. My mind admires them both. But my heart belongs to Ferrier.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Sir John Barbirolli made the interesting decision to conduct the orchestral introduction, interlude and postlude of this song at a tempo markedly slower than the one accorded Baker in the sung portions, where her tempo is approximately that of the Ferrier performance. I don't think Mahler asks for this, and given the abundance of expression marks in his scores we may assume that it's contrary to his wishes, or at least to his intial conception. Nevertheless, I find it quite effective and am not tempted to make a Beckmesser scratch with my chalk. Baker sings and interprets impeccably too, and I find the performance altogether lovely and satisfying.
> 
> I haven't always been a fan of Ferrier's unique timbre and style, and I'm not particularly a lover of Mahler, but there's something about this composer performed by this singer that I find peculiarly moving. Here her deep, androgynous tones are as mournful as a cor anglais, and there's a paradoxical mix of strength and vulnerability, perhaps enhanced by a touch of effortfulness at the top of the voice, which grips me and touches me deeply. Baker's vocal mastery and superb artistry are beyond criticism, but feel a touch more consciously artful, perhaps too perfect to project fully the bleak grief of bereavement that flows from Ferrier like a gift of nature.
> 
> It's hard to have to choose between two such performances. My mind admires them both. But my heart belongs to Ferrier.


As they say down South, you write so purdy!!! A joy to read.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Now this really is hard. Two great Mahler singers with two great Mahler conductors, Bruno Walter and John Barbirolli. Both singers amongst my favourites, Baker in my top three. 

_Kindertotenlieder _are, it seems to me, more often sung by a woman than a man these days, though the lyrics are from the father's point of view, in this case describing the pain of seeing the mother come through the door without their now dead child, and I think both singers movingly capture that pain and sorrow.

I know what Woodduck means about the specificity of Baker's art, which some might feel a little too "artful" in the Schwarzkopf manner, but it is that very specificity that draws me to Baker in almost everything she sings; superb technique put at the service of the music, and I don't find her in any way less moving in her epression of grief than Ferrier. Incidentally, I only discovered this recently (in the excellent BBC documentary _Janet Baker in Her Own Words, _now available on Marquee TV), but Baker was no stranger to the pain of losing a child. She apparently had an older brother, who died when he was only ten, and she talks most movingly about how this experience not only coloured her life and the lives of her parents, but how it also coloured her voice and artistry. I don't think it's fanciful to suggest that something of that pain comes through in this performance.

Of course Ferrier is also tremendously moving in a slightly more direct way and I find it almost impossible to choose between two such wonderful renditions. However, I am going to vote for Baker. The Mahler she recorded with Barbirollii has long been one of my desert island discs (especially the _Rückert Lieder_), so I really couldn't be without it.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've only heard the Baker once before and I'm not keen on her in Mahler. However, first Ferrier.

I think Ferrier's German could be cleaner (see Ludwig). I love her voice and she does quite a good job of embuing the line with sadness, but I would want more intensity of emotion at the louder, slower sections. The conducting is sympathetic and this is way above and beyond the previous two examples. The final minute or so of this version is masterly, the hushed sadness and musical expression of intense pain are heartbreaking and she excells when compared with Ludwig at this bit. (I don't know if we are going to get Ludwig in this contest, but hers is one of the main recordings of this song.) I still prefer Fischer-Dieskau over Ferrier, but her getting to the emotional depth of the poetry and music at the end makes this my prefered version compared with other low voiced female singers.

Baker's is going to be interesting as I expect to prefer Ferrier. However, I'm going to listen to it with as open a mind as possible. I don't like the conducting much here, I feel this music should be kept flowing without dragging and that only happens sporadically. Her German is cleaner than Ferrier's which is a bonus. There is much refinement and style in the faster sections, but this is style over substance. Ludwig and DFD are masters here. Christa uses dynamics and phrasing to express emotion, whilst Dietrich embues the line with a sad tone, almost crying through song. I can't pick a winner between Baker and Ferrier in those moments as neither quite does it for me. Where Baker wins is in the intensity of the first slower section that is almost as heartbreaking as DFD. The second half isn't as good as the first and the conducting really lets this version down.

I'm really torn here. One thing that is really clear is that if it were a case of "who conducted it better" I would have no hesitation in voting for Walter, but these contests are about "who sang it better". I will need to listen again.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Sir John Barbirolli made the interesting decision to conduct the orchestral introduction, interlude and postlude of this song at a tempo markedly slower than the one accorded Baker in the sung portions, where her tempo is approximately that of the Ferrier performance. I don't think Mahler asks for this, and given the abundance of expression marks in his scores we may assume that it's contrary to his wishes, or at least to his intial conception. Nevertheless, I find it quite effective and am not tempted to make a Beckmesser scratch with my chalk. Baker sings and interprets impeccably too, and I find the performance altogether lovely and satisfying.
> 
> I haven't always been a fan of Ferrier's unique timbre and style, and I'm not particularly a lover of Mahler, but there's something about this composer performed by this singer that I find peculiarly moving. Here her deep, androgynous tones are as mournful as a cor anglais, and there's a paradoxical mix of strength and vulnerability, perhaps enhanced by a touch of effortfulness at the top of the voice, which grips me and touches me deeply. Baker's vocal mastery and superb artistry are beyond criticism, but feel a touch more considered, more controlled, refined and genteel, perhaps even too perfect to project fully the bleak grief of bereavement that flows, disarmed and innocent, from Ferrier like a gift of nature.
> 
> It's hard to have to choose between two such performances. My mind admires them both. But my heart belongs to Ferrier.


Purdy or not, I listened again and was going to write something similar to this, but now I don't have to as you have perfectly surmised my own thoughts.

I like the Baker more than I expected to, but I admire its artistry, whereas Ferrier's soul speaks to my own.

Ferrier wins (by a hair).

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've only heard the Baker once before and I'm not keen on her in Mahler. However, first Ferrier.
> 
> I think Ferrier's German could be cleaner (see Ludwig). I love her voice and she does quite a good job of embuing the line with sadness, but I would want more intensity of emotion at the louder, slower sections. The conducting is sympathetic and this is way above and beyond the previous two examples. The final minute or so of this version is masterly, the hushed sadness and musical expression of intense pain are heartbreaking and she excells when compared with Ludwig at this bit. (I don't know if we are going to get Ludwig in this contest, but hers is one of the main recordings of this song.) I still prefer Fischer-Dieskau over Ferrier, but her getting to the emotional depth of the poetry and music at the end makes this my prefered version compared with other low voiced female singers.
> 
> ...


I'm completely mystified by some of your comments. To me, saying you don't like Baker in Mahler is like someone saying they don't like Callas in Bellini. For me they are a match made in heaven and Baker's Mahler recordings that she made with Barbirolli would be on my list of Desert Island Discs. Indeed one of the most moving sections of the recent _Janet Baker In Her Own Words _documentary was the section when she, her husband and his carer, sat and listened to her recording of _Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen_, all visibly moved by the recording. To say, as you do at one point, that her version of this particular song has more style than substace is not only quite damning, but an insult to a great artist, who always strove to reach the truth behind the written notes. Funnily enough, I have the opposite reaction to you. I have the Ludwig recording with Karajan, and I agree it is, like all her work, very fine, but I find her response to the music much more generalised than Baker's, the emotions much less specific.

As for the conducting, Barbirolli may take a few liberties, but he was a very fine Mahlerian, his recording of the 5th being a classic and one which was for many years considered the library choice. If it has since been superseded, that has more to do with the standard of orchestral playing and recording than the interpretaion itself.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'm completely mystified by some of your comments. To me, saying you don't like Baker in Mahler is like someone saying they don't like Callas in Bellini. For me they are a match made in heaven and Baker's Mahler recordings that she made with Barbirolli would be on my list of Desert Island Discs. Indeed one of the most moving sections of the recent _Janet Baker In Her Own Words _documentary was the section when she, her husband and his carer, sat and listened to her recording of _Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen_. To say, as you do at one point, that her version has more style than substace is not only quite damning, but an insult to a great performer, who always strove to reach the truth behind the written notes. Funnily enough, I have the opposite reaction to you. I have the Ludwig recording with Karajan, and I agree it is, like all her work, very fine, but I find her response to the music much more generalised than Baker's, the emotions much less specific.
> 
> As for the conducting, Barbirolli may take a few liberties, but he was a very fine Mahlerian, his recording of the 5th being a classic and one which was for many years considered the library choice.


Perhaps it would have been better to say "I haven't liked Baker in Mahler in the past". I liked her much more than I expected. We are going to have to disagree about Baker and Mahler though. Perhaps the best comparison with Callas and Bellini is her singing of Berlioz and I think she suited Handel and baroque and early opera in general then she did 19th century stage works (other than the already mentioned Berlioz). Anything that can in any way be considered classical in style and earlier she suited perfectly. That's not to say that she didn't sing Mahler well or that she sang it in the style of Mozart. When it comes to Desert Island Discs, Baker's Berlioz on EMI which was released as part of their "Great Artists of the Century" and her Philips and Decca Recordings box set would be further towards the top of the list than her Mahler disc (in which I find much to admire none the less). If I were to choose a Desert Island Disc of Mahler Lieder, it would be the selection of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau conducted by Furtwangler and Kempe with some of the songs accompanied by Barenboim on the piano which was also released by EMI in their "Great Recordings of the Century" series.

Incidentally, the only Ludwig version of this song I know is the one with Andre Vandernoot and it's in that version where she makes much more out of the text expressively than Baker. (Whether I would prefer Ludwig overall is another thing altogether.)

Getting back to Baker and Ferrier, it's much like the recent thread on Callas and Sutherland. The fact that the artistry of one says more to me emotively than the other doesn't mean that I would write the other off completely, even in the same repertoire. The influence of HIP ideals on performance practice of baroque and early music means that Baker's Bach and Handel is appealing in a very different way from Ferrier's and I couldn't be without either.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Perhaps it would have been better to say "I haven't liked Baker in Mahler in the past". I liked her much more than I expected. We are going to have to disagree about Baker and Mahler though. Perhaps the best comparison with Callas and Bellini is her singing of Berlioz and I think she suited Handel and baroque and early opera in general then she did 19th century stage works (other than the already mentioned Berlioz). Anything that can in any way be considered classical in style and earlier she suited perfectly. That's not to say that she didn't sing Mahler well or that she sang it in the style of Mozart. When it comes to Desert Island Discs, Baker's Berlioz on EMI which was released as part of their "Great Artists of the Century" and her Philips and Decca Recordings box set would be further towards the top of the list than her Mahler disc (in which I find much to admire none the less). If I were to choose a Desert Island Disc of Mahler Lieder, it would be the selection of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau conducted by Furtwangler and Kempe with some of the songs accompanied by Barenboim on the piano which was also released by EMI in their "Great Recordings of the Century" series.
> 
> Incidentally, the only Ludwig version of this song I know is the one with Andre Vandernoot and it's in that version where she makes much more out of the text expressively than Baker. (Whether I would prefer Ludwig overall is another thing altogether.)
> 
> ...


But Baker was also renowned for her singing of Romantic music, particularly Elgar (_The Dream of Gerontius _and _Sea Pictures_) and Brahms (_Alto Rhapsody)_. One of her first discs for the Saga label, made before she recorded her famous Purcell Dido, was Schumann's _Frauenliebe und Leben_. She also sang (and recorded) the Wooddove in _Gurrelieder _an made a superb recording of Wagner's _Wesendonck Lieder _with Boult. The Philips box set is nowhere near comprehensive, as most of her recordings of Romantic repertoire were for EMI, for whom she recorded the majority of her Romantic repertoire. She was an EMI exclusive for quite a long time, having left Decca/Argo after making only a few recordings. She recorded for Philips ( and then Virgin, Hyperion and Collins Classics) later in her career. There are three live recordings of her singing _Das Lied von der Erde _(with Leppard, Kempe and Kubelik) and one studio recording (Haitink). The Haitink and Kubelik recordings are, I know, a first choice for many.

Her stage repertoire was, admittedly, quite small, but her roles included Octavian, the Composer, Charlotte and, of course, Maria Stuarda. Though she sings the role in English, I prefer her Maria on the two live recordings to all others including Caballé and Sutherland. Again she is much more specific in her reponse to music and text, in fact much closer to school of Callas than to either of the aforementioned artists. It was no surprise that she chose the role for her farewell to the ENO in her final year on the operatic stage.

You may not like her in Mahler. That is your personal opinion, which is fine, but the fact is that he was one of the cornerstones of her concert repertoire, and she was renowned the world over for her singing of his music. I'd say she was as much in demand for her Mahler, as she was for her Berlioz.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> But Baker was also renowned for her singing of Romantic music, particularly Elgar (_The Dream of Gerontius _and _Sea Pictures_) and Brahms (_Alto Rhapsody)_. One of her first discs for the Saga label, made before she recorded her famous Purcell Dido, was Schumann's _Frauenliebe und Leben_. She also sang (and recorded) the Wooddove in _Gurrelieder _an made a superb recording of Wagner's _Wesendonck Lieder _with Boult. The Philips box set is nowhere near comprehensive, as most of her recordings of Romantic repertoire were for EMI, for whom she recorded the majority of her Romantic repertoire. She was an EMI exclusive for quite a long time, having left Decca/Argo after making only a few recordings. She recorded for Philips ( and then Virgin, Hyperion and Collins Classics) later in her career. There are three live recordings of her singing _Das Lied von der Erde _(with Leppard, Kempe and Kubelik) and one studio recording (Haitink). The Haitink and Kubelik recordings are, I know, a first choice for many.
> 
> Her stage repertoire was, admittedly, quite small, but her roles included Octavian, the Composer, Charlotte and, of course, Maria Stuarda. Though she sings the role in English, I prefer her Maria on the two live recordings to all others including Caballé and Sutherland. Again she is much more specific in her reponse to music and text, in fact much closer to school of Callas than to either of the aforementioned artists. It was no surprise that she chose the role for her farewell to the ENO in her final year on the operatic stage.
> 
> You may not like her in Mahler. That is your personal opinion, which is fine, but the fact is that he was one of the cornerstones of her concert repertoire, and she was renowned the world over for her singing of his music. I'd say she was as much in demand for her Mahler, as she was for her Berlioz.


Now, Elgar is the exception, that's another composer she very much suited. However, we will have to disagree about her Donizetti. It's not so much that I don't like her, but that I find other artists are more suitable in her bel canto roles. The fact that she could sing Bellini and Donizetti in perfect fitting with their style and Gluck in a totally different and authentic way is testament to her great versatility (and I think she does better making that transition than Callas does in reverse). I just don't find her peerless in bel canto and most romantic music. (That shouldn't be a controversal opinion, nor should it be taken as a slight.) Baker was far too humble to look in the mirror and say, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest Mahler singer of them all" and then feel slighted if the reply were to be, "You, of course, are the greatest, my dear, but that's only because Ferrier is no longer here." It's not that I don't like her in Mahler, it's just that I prefer others in his music.

As you say yourself, "Ferrier is also tremendously moving in a slightly more direct way" and one of the most important things when it comes to singing (and possibly the most important thing) for me is that level of direct expression. Ferrier had it, as did Callas. Music in a romantic style (and I don't just mean 'from the Romantic period' here) really demands a high level of direct emotional import that wasn't part of Baker's approach as an artist. She gets close enough for it to work, but I prefer other artists who excelled at expressing emotions more overtly in some of her rep.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Now, Elgar is the exception, that's another composer she very much suited. However, we will have to disagree about her Donizetti. It's not so much that I don't like her, but that I find other artists are more suitable in her bel canto roles. The fact that she could sing Bellini and Donizetti in perfect fitting with their style and Gluck in a totally different and authentic way is testament to her great versatility (and I think she does better making that transition than Callas does in reverse). I just don't find her peerless in bel canto and most romantic music. (That shouldn't be a controversal opinion, nor should it be taken as a slight.) Baker was far too humble to look in the mirror and say, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest Mahler singer of them all" and then feel slighted if the reply were to be, "You, of course, are the greatest, my dear, but that's only because Ferrier is no longer here." It's not that I don't like her in Mahler, it's just that I prefer others in his music.
> 
> As you say yourself, "Ferrier is also tremendously moving in a slightly more direct way" and one of the most important things when it comes to singing (and possibly the most important thing) for me is that level of direct expression. Ferrier had it, as did Callas. Music in a romantic style (and I don't just mean 'from the Romantic period' here) really demands a high level of direct emotional import that wasn't part of Baker's approach as an artist. She gets close enough for it to work, but I prefer other artists who excelled at expressing emotions more overtly in some of her rep.
> 
> N.


I cannot disagree with people's preferences, because they are entirely personal, but I can disagree with your comment highlighted above. It is precisely _because_ of her emotional commitment that Baker is so high on my list of favourite singers. I'd argue the reverse. Baker's response to music was _always_ to bring out the emotional truth, as well as beauty and I find her more moving than practically anyone in all of her recorded repertoire. She is not a cool artist, not by any stretch and it not only amazes me, and saddens me, that you cannot hear it. Thankfully plenty of others can. Have you seen or read any of Joyce DiDonato's pieces in praise of Janet Baker, the singer who inspired her to become a singer herself? The two singers have become friends and DiDonato has interviewed Baker on occasions. Her contributions to that BBC documentary are also very revealing and right on point.

Did you ever see Baker perform, by the way? I did, and they were some of the most moving and most memorable performances I've ever seen. I remember her once taking a critic to task for suggesting that she seemed less than committed in a performance, her response being something along the lines of "Criticise my voice, criticise my interpretation, criticise my technique, but never suggest that I am ever less than 100% emotionally committed to the music I am singing." 

I know that, like me, you are a Callas fan. She and Baker could not be more different, but, for me, Baker is the only other singer to approach Callas's emotional connection with the music she is singing.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I learn so much from you passionate very learned souls. Something interesting to remember about Ferrier is she was a piano major and didn't take up singing till 24. This was post war Germany and I don't think learning German was high on people's priorities. I find it amazing that she became such an accomplished singer in such a short amount of time!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

What's interesting to me about my own response to these two singers, in light of the controversy they're creating here, is that in most music I much prefer Baker to Ferrier. Both singers are highly individual in sound and manner - something hard to find these days - and I've always been a fan of Baker but never of Ferrier. I hardly ever listen to Mahler either, which I could expatiate on, but I'm too lazy (I've talked about Mahler here on the forum in past years. Suffice to say that if we weren't engaged in a contest here, I wouldn't be listening to _Kindertotenlieder_ at all, and the thought of having to sit through the whole glum cycle leaves me cold.). Baker seems to me beyond criticism in Mahler, here as elsewhere; she's done great recordings of his _Das Lied_ _von der Erde_ and other vocal works, which I discovered many years ago. Ferrier's _Das Lied, _on the other hand, I came to only recently after avoiding it for decades, but when I did hear it I was taken by surprise - surprise that I loved her in a way I never had before (and, to be honest, still don't). Can you love a singer for the sound of her voice in only one composer? As one says in computerese, LOL, or at least CQ (chuckle quietly).


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I cannot disagree with people's preferences, because they are entirely personal, but I can disagree with your comment highlighted above. It is precisely _because_ of her emotional commitment that Baker is so high on my list of favourite singers. I'd argue the reverse. Baker's response to music was _always_ to bring out the emotional truth, as well as beauty and I find her more moving than practically anyone in all of her recorded repertoire. She is not a cool artist, not by any stretch and it not only amazes me, and saddens me, that you cannot hear it. Thankfully plenty of others can. Have you seen or read any of Joyce DiDonato's pieces in praise of Janet Baker, the singer who inspired her to become a singer herself? The two singers have become friends and DiDonato has interviewed Baker on occasions. Her contributions to that BBC documentary are also very revealing and right on point.
> 
> Did you ever see Baker perform, by the way? I did, and they were some of the most moving and most memorable performances I've ever seen. I remember her once taking a critic to task for suggesting that she seemed less than committed in a performance, her response being something along the lines of "Criticise my voice, criticise my interpretation, criticise my technique, but never suggest that I am ever less than 100% emotionally committed to the music I am singing."
> 
> I know that, like me, you are a Callas fan. She and Baker could not be more different, but, for me, Baker is the only other singer to approach Callas's emotional connection with the music she is singing.


No, I didn't see Baker perform live and I would never suggest that she wasn't totally committed as a performer as you don't rise to the level of her artistry without committment in spades. I totally understand that you and DiDonato are huge fans of hers as was her husband. She's a singer I greatly enjoy and admire, just not as much as you do.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> What's interesting to me about my own response to these two singers, in light of the controversy they're creating here, is that in most music I much prefer Baker to Ferrier. Both singers are highly individual in sound and manner - something hard to find these days - and I've always been a fan of Baker but never of Ferrier. I hardly ever listen to Mahler either, which I could expatiate on, but I'm too lazy (I've talked about Mahler here on the forum in past years. Suffice to say that if we weren't engaged in a contest here, I wouldn't be listening to _Kindertotenlieder_ at all, and the thought of having to sit through the whole glum cycle leaves me cold.). Baker seems to me beyond criticism in Mahler, here as elsewhere; she's done great recordings of his _Das Lied_ _von der Erde_ and other vocal works, which I discovered many years ago. Ferrier's _Das Lied, _on the other hand, I came to only recently after avoiding it for decades, but when I did hear it I was taken by surprise - surprise that I loved her in a way I never had before (and, to be honest, still don't). *Can you love a singer for the sound of her voice in only one composer?* As one says in computerese, LOL, or at least CQ (chuckle quietly).


Most certainly, most of Fleming's performances leave me cold. Her Thais is almost the only role I like her in, so if you can love the sound of a singer's voice in one role, you can certainly love them in one composer. Unlike you I am both a fan of Ferrier and Mahler, I was pleasantly surprised with this contest as I enjoyed Baker's performance more than I expected. I wouldn't want to be without my box sets of either singer though.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I learn so much from you passionate very learned souls. Something interesting to remember about Ferrier is she was a piano major and didn't take up singing till 24. This was post war Germany and I don't think learning German was high on people's priorities. I find it amazing that she became such an accomplished singer in such a short amount of time!


She died young and there is no doubt that exposure to the likes of Benjamin Britten and Bruno Walter opened up new vistas and possibilities to her. Who knows what she would have accomplished had she lived longer. The voice gives every indication of being one that would have lasted. There was a time when she seemed to go out of fashion and I am pleased that she seems to be enjoying something of a resurgence.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I had the great pleasure of hearing Dame Janet twice in Glasgow. Rosenkavalier in 1971 and Ariadne in 1977. Although I can’t recall every note of her performances I do remember her as being so good. Mind you Helga Dernesch sang the Marschalin and Ariadne at these performances. An embarrassment of riches. Scottish Opera used to have some great singers back in the day. 😊


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Side note: a thousand years ago my fiance ( another lifetime ago) had a nice alto voice and went to the same voice teacher who taught my sister. He played Ferrier for her and said she will sound like her after he trains her and my ex wife never went back LOL.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I cannot disagree with people's preferences, because they are entirely personal, but I can disagree with your comment highlighted above. It is precisely _because_ of her emotional commitment that Baker is so high on my list of favourite singers. I'd argue the reverse. Baker's response to music was _always_ to bring out the emotional truth, as well as beauty and I find her more moving than practically anyone in all of her recorded repertoire. She is not a cool artist, not by any stretch and it not only amazes me, and saddens me, that you cannot hear it. Thankfully plenty of others can. Have you seen or read any of Joyce DiDonato's pieces in praise of Janet Baker, the singer who inspired her to become a singer herself? The two singers have become friends and DiDonato has interviewed Baker on occasions. Her contributions to that BBC documentary are also very revealing and right on point.
> 
> Did you ever see Baker perform, by the way? I did, and they were some of the most moving and most memorable performances I've ever seen. I remember her once taking a critic to task for suggesting that she seemed less than committed in a performance, her response being something along the lines of "Criticise my voice, criticise my interpretation, criticise my technique, but never suggest that I am ever less than 100% emotionally committed to the music I am singing."
> 
> I know that, like me, you are a Callas fan. She and Baker could not be more different, but, for me, Baker is the only other singer to approach Callas's emotional connection with the music she is singing.


I feel that Baker expresses the music very well and is a sincere musician. Maybe this is what you're receptive to. But I don't find her to bring a personal or dramatic expression to what she sings. She realises the expression that a composer writes into the music without adding her own. For some this is exactly what they love, for others it's not. I can enjoy her singing, I like her rendition of Ravel's Mallarme songs which suit her very well, but a lot of the time I prefer a more extroverted approach.


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