# Is the Met in trouble?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Don't know if this has been posted yet.

Peter Gelb says that New York's Metropolitan Opera will "face a bankruptcy situation in two or three years" if it does not cut its wages bill.

He also says, "We are getting a newer audience, a younger audience, but there aren't enough new audience members to replace the old audience members who are dying off."

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27738482


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Don't know if this has been posted yet.
> 
> Peter Gelb says that New York's Metropolitan Opera will "face a bankruptcy situation in two or three years" if it does not cut its wages bill.
> 
> ...


Of course they're in trouble.

"The company's annual operating budget for the 2011-2012 season was $325 million, of which $182 million (43%) comes from private donations"

At $325 Million running costs, even with the 46% of that from corporate and private donations, this is not going to go on forever without drastic budget cuts. Ditto for the symphonies, which are better off, perhaps, in keeping quality music going and paying less exhorbitant salaries for a conductor who works, for example, less than half the season -- and there are no sets, costumes, and all the techies and stage hands at union rates.

Between insisting on programming mainly the old masterworks and warhorses, evidently putting little or nothing into outreach programs to youth in schools, what were they thinking is a better question to ask.

Oh, and _It is the price, dummies_, including soaring rates for conductors and soloists.

This is also why symphonies are in trouble, though the cost numbers are in a less stratosheric league, the principle and madness is the same. A $2 million salary for the resident music director / conductor who has in his contract only half the season conducting, the other of that season globe trotting to other orchestras where is also director / conductor and guest conductor, leaving a slot on the home front where another conductor has to be hired, maybe at less than a Million, LOL. Where to cut some immediate costs seems clear, and it does not start with the staple of the union and free-lance chorus regulars, the salaried secondary repertoire singers, or the orchestral players, but the conductors, the mega stars with their mega fees. Add that some union stage rules in the states are classically padded in order to squeeze unnecessary hours at union wages out of the institution.

Then again, how long you can be a museum to Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Bellini, and but a few others, is really an out of this world proposition to begin with.

An upper balcony, furthest back and highest tier seat, Chicago Civic Opera, for a 'not special, not major gala, not benefit gala production of La Boheme? $144.oo -- really. Oh yeah, I'm gonna sign up for the whole season of antique chestnuts right away, a pop at just $144 per show.


----------



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

So many people in the US can't currently find jobs, let alone afford expensive opera tickets.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> So many people in the US can't currently find jobs, let alone afford expensive opera tickets.


It is very American, but most of those people who can not find jobs are not in the same demographic of those who attend the opera. That might be a very different story abroad, where more of the general population do go, the ticket prices heavily (_*HEAVILY*_) subsidized by state funding.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

PetrB said:


> Then again, how long you can be a museum to Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Bellini and but a few others, is really an out of this world proposition to begin with.


?

If anything, this could only improve their financial situation. Wagner sells lots of tickets and you don't need to pay him. Modern opera composer sells much less tickets and you do have to pay him for his work.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

PetrB said:


> It is very American, but most of those people who can not find jobs are not in the same demographic of those who attend the opera. That might be a very different story abroad, where more of the general population do go, the ticket prices heavily (_*HEAVILY*_) subsidized by state funding.


I know that tickets in London's Covent Garden are very expensive too so assume it's a capital city auditorium thing as other cities manage to put on operas ticketed at a quarter of the price but a majority of the population are not opera goers and the unemployed probably doubly uninterested even if offered a free ticket.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aramis said:


> ?
> 
> If anything, this could only improve their financial situation. Wagner sells lots of tickets and you don't need to pay him. Modern opera composer sells much less tickets and you do have to pay him for his work.


Oh, I'm sure that is just the ticket to draw in young audiences :lol:

Besides, there is a core audience base for Wagner who have little or no interest in any other opera


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Just as a note: The annual labor costs at the Met ($200 million) are over four times the labor expenses at the major US orchestras -- LA, Boston, New York. And an even higher multiple of the others. Does this seem reasonable?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Just as a note: The annual labor costs at the Met ($200 million) are over four times the labor expenses at the major US orchestras -- LA, Boston, New York. And an even higher multiple of the others. Does this seem reasonable?


It verges on the obscene, really, for the frippery of what is, truly by exclusivity of price, a wholly elitist entertainment. But that _is_ America, the arts are elitist, and to attend a good quality performance costs a lot -- both orchestras and operas are heavily subsidized throughout most of Europe, and 'regular folk' can afford to attend, and do, filling up those seats. Americans would geshrai to the high heavens to know larger portions of their tax monies were going to fund such affairs -- so that is "the state of the arts" we get, i.e. _exactly what we, collectively, pay for._


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Is the Met in trouble?


in big trouble indeed, but in a different sense, the Met gone down in productions quality.

the recent staging of Prince Igor has demonstrated what bad taste the Met directors are in today that they had to hire some amateur producer from Europe to stage the opera... one glance is enough to see the guy has no knowledge of history at all; here's for example the production's main character, prince Igor himself -

View attachment 44026


an unshaven person in front of the ranks, huh?


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

They should spare any cent they can and put every cent they have spared into a massive propaganda/advertising/PR campaign, comparable to those that pop music recording labels put out. In the age of media-generated fads and fashions the task of making classical music as popular as pop music and bringing in as good money to the performers and venues can be done, but it requires a very powerful, concerted advertising effort and big investments.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Someone in the US will know more about this than me...but wasn't Opera Memphis on the verge of bankruptcy a couple of years ago? They cut costs, did loads of free performances around the city, doubled productions and gave free tickets to first-timers. Apparently, a lot of those new people bought subscriptions and the company is doing rather well for itself.

I'm guessing that Memphis isn't exactly the opera capital in the US so if they can do it...

Classical music isn't snake oil. It's a good product but you do need to constantly introduce it to new audiences. It's no good preaching to the converted.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

sharik said:


> in big trouble indeed, but in a different sense, the Met gone down in productions quality.
> 
> the recent staging of Prince Igor has demonstrated what bad taste the Met directors are in today that they had to hire some amateur producer from Europe to stage the opera... one glance is enough to see the guy has no knowledge of history at all; here's for example the production's main character, prince Igor himself -- an unshaven person in front of the ranks, huh?


Well, many an opera goer is just not as severely literal in their expectations of period costume, sets from a production. Some swear all opera should be done as it was in its own period without realizing that in its own era it was done in modern dress


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couac Addict said:


> Someone in the US will know more about this than me...but wasn't Opera Memphis on the verge of bankruptcy a couple of years ago? They cut costs, did loads of free performances around the city, doubled productions and gave free tickets to first-timers. Apparently, a lot of those new people bought subscriptions and the company is doing rather well for itself.
> 
> I'm guessing that Memphis isn't exactly the opera capital in the US so if they can do it...
> 
> Classical music isn't snake oil. It's a good product but you do need to constantly introduce it to new audiences. It's no good preaching to the converted.


Wasn't that after spending hundreds of millions on a new hall they could not really afford? If that is the case, I'm happy to hear if the panic after the fact of debit aggressive tactics worked to get them back on their feet.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

It really did stick in my throat when I attended some Met broadcasts earlier this year that he was an elitist organisation asking for donations as if it were a charity. You have to live within your means. We ordinary folk do. So if the wage bill is stratospheric then it needs to be cut to bring it in line with reality. Why should highly paid people be subsidised by the donations and taxes that people pay who are far less well off? I get tired of people trying to rescue the arts when those arts are just an excuse for people being on a gravy train. One thing I do think that the Met are doing right is their live broadcasts. That brings opera to a far wider audience and makes it in the reach of people who can't normally afford it.
One thing I notice however is that Gelb does not seem to think that the singers or to take a cut in salary - that is going to fall on the orchestra, chorus, etc.. This is wrong. Rather engage bright young stars who are keen to sing and can be paid less that some of the ageing prima donnas, etc.. One of the best opera productions I ever saw was by a young company.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> It really did stick in my throat when I attended some Met broadcasts earlier this year that he was an elitist organisation asking for donations as if it were a charity...


Most operas and orchestras are, in fact, charitable organizations by legal definition. Since they're classified 501(c)(3) by the IRS, your gifts are deductible from taxable income as "charitable contributions".

As for "elitist," wouldn't a lot of people say that symphony orchestras are "elitist" as well? Perhaps this is a matter of degree?


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Most operas and orchestras are, in fact, charitable organizations by legal definition. Since they're classified 501(c)(3) by the IRS, your gifts are deductible from taxable income as "charitable donations".
> 
> As for "elitist," wouldn't a lot of people say that symphony orchestras are "elitist" as well? Perhaps this is a matter of degree?


Yes, I do,realise that technically they are charities in USA. Not sure about the UK though. What I meant is that they are not a charity which will (eg) feed the poor or house the homeless. Rather they seem like a charity for the benefit of the rich people. 
Yes I would say that symphony orchestras are elitist but not to the same extent.
However some of our pop bands in the UK take some beating. I recently heard of people paying £625 for four tickets for a 'one direction' pop concert! That's on line with the Met prices!


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> One thing I notice however is that Gelb does not seem to think that the singers or to take a cut in salary - that is going to fall on the orchestra, chorus, etc.. This is wrong. Rather engage bright young stars who are keen to sing and can be paid less that some of the ageing prima donnas, etc.. One of the best opera productions I ever saw was by a young company.


I see your point, but how far would you really want them to go in that direction? The Met isn't some provincial outfit, but the crown jewel of American opera companies. Wouldn't you expect them to sign the best singers the world has to offer?


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Some swear all opera should be done as it was in its own period without realizing that in its own era it was done in modern dress


however, when i said 'history knowledge' i actually meant not dress, but the *ethics* of human society that may not be interpreted and portrayed any other way than they already are, dress or not.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

sharik said:


> however, when i said 'history knowledge' i actually meant not dress, but the *ethics* of human society that may not be interpreted and portrayed any other way than they already are, dress or not.


The *ethics* of any one time or people may have been written as defined, while no one people of any society at any time were all consistent in accord with those ethics -- an entire population holding to an ethic is a matter of idealized fiction, and I think it a poor argument (and simplistic) to put that up as a point.

There is always something to be strived toward in somehow 'getting the ethos of an era,' in any performing of older works, the costumes having little if anything to do with that.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Did a little research on the Met. Their 2013 budget was $311 million (two-thirds of this labor), of which over half was covered by donations. Box office revenues were under $100 million, less than a third of costs. Met's finances seem far more skewed toward donations than most orchestras, whose costs are typically only about one-third covered by donations. Little or no tax revenues are available, so the Met would appear to be funded solely by its customers and its angels.

However, the tax-deductibility of donations means a loss of federal tax receipts that has to be made up by the public at large. Assuming a 36% average marginal tax rate, the $158 million in donations to the Met in 2013 cost the US treasury about $57 million, which had to be picked up by US taxpayers generally. To this extent, the Met is subsidized by nationwide taxes -- as is your local orchestra.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> The *ethics* of any one time or people may have been written as defined, while no one people of any society at any time were all consistent in accord with those ethics


no they were not, but in most cases they were and this is only that should be portrayed, otherwise you end up in total idiocy portraying a one off as a tendency.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> an entire population holding to an ethic is a matter of idealized fiction


- rubbish... a population cannot exist without ethics mutually agreed on, idealised or not.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, I used to subscribe to the Met for years. The only seats you can really see from, cost a fortune.
After a while, those filthy rich patrons who inhabit those seats for the elite, will expire; then what?
Here's what: "The Met's in trouble."


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

sharik said:


> no they were not, but in most cases they were and this is only that should be portrayed, otherwise you end up in total idiocy portraying a one off as a tendency.


Grown up with absolutist propaganda screaming at us full tilt from all directions, have we?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Well, I used to subscribe to the Met for years. The only seats you can really see from cost a fortune.
> After a while, those filthy rich patrons who inhabit those seats for the elite, will expire; then what?
> Here's what: "The Met's in trouble."


Reminds me of John Lennon's quip when the Beatles were performing in a Royal Command Performance:

"For those of you in the cheap seats I'd like ya to clap your hands to this one; 
the rest of you can just rattle your jewelry!"


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Grown up with absolutist propaganda screaming at us full tilt from all directions, have we?


i wouldn't say the propaganda you West folk are subjected to is 'absolutist' but, on the other hand, it works just the same.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Reminds me of John Lennon's quip when the Beatles were performing in a Royal Command Performance:
> 
> "For those of you in the cheap seats I'd like ya to clap your hands to this one;
> the rest of you can just rattle your jewelry!"


Of course, Lennon was in his own words 'an instinctive socialist' who said he thought money should be abolished. He died worth only £75 million.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

amfortas said:


> I see your point, but how far would you really want them to go in that direction? The Met isn't some provincial outfit, but the crown jewel of American opera companies. Wouldn't you expect them to sign the best singers the world has to offer?


I gave the 2006 Gylndebourne production of Cosi fan Tutte which was miles better than the rather staid if enjoyable one I saw from the Met. Of course the Met should try to engage the best singers but not at the price of bankrupting the company.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Wasn't that after spending hundreds of millions on a new hall they could not really afford? If that is the case, I'm happy to hear if the panic after the fact of debit aggressive tactics worked to get them back on their feet.


I didn't know about the hall. What a genius idea...build a new hall when you're struggling to fill seats.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Well, I used to subscribe to the Met for years. The only seats you can really see from, cost a fortune.
> After a while, those filthy rich patrons who inhabit those seats for the elite, will expire; then what?
> Here's what: "The Met's in trouble."


I agree. It's not that great...way way too big. If you can't see faces from the back row - what's the point?


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

This is what assigning everything its societal value by profit potential (capitalism) got you. Cheap Chinese-made crap and dying opera houses. Now enjoy it!


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Couchie said:


> This is what assigning everything its societal value by profit potential (capitalism) got you. Cheap Chinese-made crap and dying opera houses. Now enjoy it!


An opera house certainly is not capitalism! Most cannot make a profit and are propped up by donations or state grants. The ultimate socialist ideal, I think!


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> An opera house certainly is not capitalism! Most cannot make a profit and are propped up by donations or state grants. The ultimate socialist ideal, I think!


I think the point was, *because* opera is a "socialist ideal," it struggles to survive under capitalism.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

DavidA said:


> An opera house certainly is not capitalism! Most cannot make a profit and are propped up by donations or state grants. The ultimate socialist ideal, I think!


Aristocratic/monarchist ideal, if anything: wealthy patrons with a taste for high culture.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

i'd say opera is a national treasure like museums and architecture and therefore should get support without economic consideration involved.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

From the NYT: "With union contract talks heating up, a tax filing for 2012 indicates that general manager Peter Gelb earned pay and benefits of $1.8 million, chorus and orchestra members average around $200,000 in pay and $85-100K in benefits, and that three of the five highest-paid employees are stage technicians."


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> i
> an unshaven person in front of the ranks, huh?


Yes because soldiers in the twelfth century had such easy access to hot water and razors in order to maintain excellent personal hygiene.










BTW your "amateur producer from Europe" is Russian director Дмитрий Черняков who probably does have an inkling about Russian history.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yes because soldiers in the twelfth century had such easy access to hot water and razors in order to maintain excellent personal hygiene


i did not talk beards, i meant *unshaven look*, which is completely different thing.



mamascarlatti said:


> your "amateur producer from Europe" is Russian director Дмитрий Черняков who probably does have an inkling about Russian history


no, obviously he does not; and he lives in Germany.


----------



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

They certainly have a problem but mostly young people are into crap music like hip hop/rap heavy metal & so on.It seem they lack interest in OPERA .


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mtmailey said:


> mostly young people are into crap music


kids tend to grow up and when reach 40 they will need opera to be there.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

sharik said:


> kids tend to grow up and when reach 40 they will need opera to be there.


Some of them will come to opera, some of them will be even more into what is perceived as music for young people, so as to come off as "young at heart".

In the past, we at least had the elites, all those princes and dukes who were brought up with a notion of classical music and other high culture as something valuable and befitting their position. Even if not all of them by far really came to love it, still their support was of great value to the history of classical music. Now we have pop stars and football players as the new elite - and what notion do they have of high culture?


----------



## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

sharik said:


> kids tend to grow up and when reach 40 they will need opera to be there.


This used to be the norm - to "graduate" to classical once you were of a certain age and "seriousness" - but it certainly isn't any more and hasn't been for a long time. Classical competes with various indie and alt genres, jazz or all sorts of stripes, "world" music for those who take an interest in music looking for a grown-up musical experience. Listen to public radio - they play some classics (popular, fairly light) in far less quantity than the other styles listed!


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

sharik said:


> in big trouble indeed, but in a different sense, the Met gone down in productions quality.
> 
> the recent staging of Prince Igor has demonstrated what bad taste the Met directors are in today that they had to hire some amateur producer from Europe to stage the opera... one glance is enough to see the guy has no knowledge of history at all; here's for example the production's main character, prince Igor himself -
> 
> ...


What in the hell is that? It's more fitting for Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth" than for "Prince Igor." Don't get me wrong, I'm for innovation and going outside the box. But the mis-match between presentation and history is more than enough for one person to bear. Goodness.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

dholling said:


> What in the hell is that? It's more fitting for Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth" than for "Prince Igor." Don't get me wrong, I'm for innovation and going outside the box. But the mis-match between presentation and history is more than enough for one person to bear. Goodness.


If this is enough to upset you, I wonder what sort of "innovation" or "outside the box" approach you'd find acceptable.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

amfortas said:


> If this is enough to upset you, I wonder what sort of "innovation" or "outside the box" approach you'd find acceptable.


Producing XVIIIth century custome for Countess Almaviva with sewing machine rather than with more historically correct hand sewing.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

amfortas said:


> If this is enough to upset you, I wonder what sort of "innovation" or "outside the box" approach you'd find acceptable


innovation means 'better than before' - that is, you excel those, who were before you, in their own skill.


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

sharik said:


> innovation means 'better than before' - that is, you excel those, who were before you, in their own skill.


I agree with that.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

sharik said:


> innovation means 'better than before' - that is, you excel those, who were before you, in their own skill.


That's one definition. It can also mean "a new idea, device, or method," or the act or process of introducing such novelty.

People present novel artistic interpretations all the time; they don't necessarily have to represent an improvement over all those that went before.


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> i did not talk beards, i meant *unshaven look*, which is completely different thing.


First Abdrazakov is wearing a nice beard, not being wantonly unshaven; if you have seen the production you will know that. Jonas Kaufmann is the one with the stubble habit.

Secondly my point still stands; soldiers in the twelfth century will not have access to hot water and razors in order to maintain excellent personal hygiene.



> no, obviously he does not; and he lives in Germany.


And spent his formative years in Moscow attending Moscow schools and learning Russian history. I live in New Zealand, but my schooling was French and English and I still know my French and English history; moving to another country doesn't wash things out of your mind; in fact it expands it.

The interview with Tcherniakov was extremely interesting; he is obviously a well-informed and thoughtful individual, even I don't always agree with his directorial decisions (the worst actually being that he often has characters laughing when others are singing, now THAT drives me bananas). But I will say this, his productions are never boring and often thought-provoking.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

amfortas said:


> People present novel artistic interpretations all the time; they don't necessarily have to represent an improvement over all those that went before.


and this is why everything went downhill these days, because you allow for cheats to substitute quality with novelty.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Abdrazakov is wearing a nice beard, not being wantonly unshaven


that is the point, he has a *fake* unshaven look, a glamorous one, suitable only for a disco, not for appearing in front of soldiers ranks.



mamascarlatti said:


> And spent his formative years in Moscow attending Moscow schools and learning Russian history


how do you know which years where formative for him? Multiculturalism, he seems to have sold his soul and body to, in his case may have been more formative than anything else.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

sharik said:


> and this is why everything went downhill these days, because you allow for cheats to substitute quality with novelty.


Or you allow for differing interpretations, none of which have absolute, exclusive authority. We're used to that in recordings of the classical music repertoire; operatic productions demonstrate a similar variety.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

amfortas said:


> Or you allow for differing interpretations, none of which have absolute, exclusive authority. We're used to that in recordings of the classical music repertoire; operatic productions demonstrate a similar variety.


no they don't, in fact they indulge in overdoing things to the most absurd level of idiocy... imagine if interpretations of music were taken to that level: say, the conductors would force orchestra musicians exchange instruments just for luls etc.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

sharik said:


> no they don't, in fact they indulge in overdoing things to the most absurd level of idiocy... imagine if interpretations of music were taken to that level: say, the conductors would force orchestra musicians exchange instruments just for luls etc.


... or they would decide to play a bit of Tchaikovsky in the middle of Beethoven's 9th, or insert an act from Don Giovanni in the middle of Die Walkuere, etc.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

SiegendesLicht said:


> or insert an act from Don Giovanni in the middle of Die Walkuere, etc.


I'd like that. Brunhidle is sitting in the wilderness, singing about hard life of Valkyrie and her fancy to be a god too and don't serve anymore. Then Hunding burst out on stage with Sieglinde who is fighting to get away from him. Siegmund enters, they fight, Brunhilde gives victory to the latter, and then

*Brunhilde*
Wotan, ove sei?

*Wotan*
Son qui per mia disgrazia; e voi?

*Brunhilde*
Son qui.

*Wotan*
Chi è morto, Siegmund, o Hunding?

*Brunhilde*
Che domanda da bestia! Hunding!
<leaves the stage>

*Wotan*
Doch Brünnhilde! -
Weh' der Verbrecherin!
Furchtbar sei
die Freche gestraft,
erreicht mein Ross ihre Flucht! Doch Brünnhilde! -
Weh' der Verbrecherin!
Furchtbar sei
die Freche gestraft,
erreicht mein Ross ihre Flucht!


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

sharik said:


> no they don't, in fact they indulge in overdoing things to the most absurd level of idiocy... imagine if interpretations of music were taken to that level: say, the conductors would force orchestra musicians exchange instruments just for luls etc.


Directors take a variety of approaches, some more extreme than others. There is no opera for which the staging is as meticulously notated as the music, so a director necessarily exercises more freedom than a conductor, particularly amidst today's more open-ended theatrical conventions. As for "absurd levels of idiocy," that's very much in the eye of the beholder; it would be a shame if your dislike for a production prevented me from seeing something I might enjoy.


----------



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

(Oops, wrong thread.)


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

sharik said:


> that is the point, he has a *fake* unshaven look, a glamorous one, suitable only for a disco, not for appearing in front of soldiers ranks.


I agree, we all know the real Julius Cesar was either a castrato, a countertenor or a mezzo (depending on which historical account you're reading). I've always taken my history cues from opera productions.


----------



## Philmwri (Apr 8, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Well, I used to subscribe to the Met for years. The only seats you can really see from, cost a fortune.
> After a while, those filthy rich patrons who inhabit those seats for the elite, will expire; then what?
> Here's what: "The Met's in trouble."


I agree with that comment . I personally prefer smaller opera houses.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

amfortas said:


> Directors take a variety of approaches, some more extreme than others. There is no opera for which the staging is as meticulously notated as the music, so a director necessarily exercises more freedom than a conductor, particularly amidst today's more open-ended theatrical conventions. As for "absurd levels of idiocy," that's very much in the eye of the beholder; it would be a shame if your dislike for a production prevented me from seeing something I might enjoy.


I don't disagree on your fundamentals but we should probably aim for utilitarianism in this particular case especially when opera companies are having a hard time balancing the books. The majority tastes of elegant folks should not be sacrificed to accommodate the idiotic tastes of a handful of idiots. "The weird stuff" may be better in the smaller contemporary "culture" houses where the 20 or so people into that kind of thing can get their fix. They probably would be unable to afford a live performance to such an end but they could blast a recording of Die Walkure while they lather themselves in oatmeal and other profound dramatic interpretations. In this framework at least the visual interpretive representation would be free of the confines entailed in the rather ho-hum business of having to sing and play instruments.


----------



## Xavier (Jun 7, 2012)

A highlighted comment on Michael Cooper's piece in the NYTimes this morning:

This is a fascinating problem. We have an institution that can not sell
enough in ticket revenue to fund its productions. It get a massive subsidy
from private donors to keep it afloat. And it has a talented and rare labor
force that has negotiated over time compensation levels that seem absurd to most working New Yorkers.

All of this against an extraordinary art form that is struggling to find
new audiences in an age of instant gratification and much shortened
attention spans.

The Met may be just too big for today's world and how it will find a way
to right size itself for changing audiences is anyone 's guess. Hard to see how things can resolve.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/a...times-due-met-labor-strife-bares-secrets.html


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

An update today:

"The labor strife at the Metropolitan Opera took on a new urgency Wednesday when its general manager, Peter Gelb, sent the company's orchestra, chorus, stagehands and other workers letters warning them to prepare for a lockout if no contract deal is reached by next week. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/arts/music/met-opera-prepares-to-lock-out-workers.html?_r=0


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I don't disagree on your fundamentals but we should probably aim for utilitarianism in this particular case especially when opera companies are having a hard time balancing the books. The majority tastes of elegant folks should not be sacrificed to accommodate the idiotic tastes of a handful of idiots. "The weird stuff" may be better in the smaller contemporary "culture" houses where the 20 or so people into that kind of thing can get their fix. They probably would be unable to afford a live performance to such an end but they could blast a recording of Die Walkure while they lather themselves in oatmeal and other profound dramatic interpretations. In this framework at least the visual interpretive representation would be free of the confines entailed in the rather ho-hum business of having to sing and play instruments.


Not sure how I missed this until now. Anyway. . .

Balancing the books is always important, but I'm not sure it's helpful to posit an opposition between "elegant folks" (wealthy donors?) and "a handful of idiots." Plenty of audience members fall outside either category, just as their reactions to different types of staging can vary. Similarly, you seem to assume a sharp distinction between traditional fare and "weird stuff" involving oatmeal, but imaginative directors aren't limited to those two alternatives.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Put numbers on the performers backs, and market it as a sporting event.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Vaneyes said:


> Put numbers on the performers backs, and market it as a sporting event.


It's been done!


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

An interesting article... http://necmusic.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/the-coolest-band-in-the-world/

The Berlin Philharmonika can operate with a budget of €25 million (of which half is subsidised). Musicians are paid €90,000 with principals getting an additional 15%.

My query is this. How much does the Met need to operate its orchestra? Salaries seem on par with Berlin.
That leaves $300m in the war chest to run an opera season. Is that not enough?


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ you forget everything has to be grander, bigger and more lavish at the Met. It's the culture, it seems.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

deggial said:


> ^ you forget everything has to be grander, bigger and more lavish at the Met. It's the culture, it seems.


Perhaps it needs a French production to help fill the theatre ...jump to the 16th minute. Or just go to the second Act (51:40).
You can thank me later guys


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Let Them Eat Cake*

Along with being an amateur musicians I spent twenty-nine years working as a pension auditor with the United States Government. During my career I audited over one thousand pension plans and their companies.

I know I audited a few hundred companies that went bankrupt that had union pension plans. The management would argue our payroll and benefit packages are too expensive. We have to make cuts in order to survive. In order to save the jobs the union agrees to the cuts and the company goes bankrupt anyways. Based on my experiences this is no different than when the management of a symphony orchestra or opera house bemoans the fact that they have to cut salaries and benefits in order to survive. This is a common theme in American economics. If a company is having problems, there is too much government interference (We can not have the government subsidize the arts) and the employees get too much money.

The reality is this. It is very expensive to operate a first rate opera house or symphony orchestra. In America in order to have a first rate symphony orchestra one has to pay their musicians $100,000 a year. I know of orchestra that have modest salaries. They are OK but they stage only a few concerts a year and their performance level is nothing like that of Berlin.

The Met has one of the premier orchestras in the world. If we cut their salaries, then they will turn into a mediocre pit group.

Then the same people who complain about the decline of classical music in this country will complain on how the Met used to be one of the premier opera companies in the world and they will wonder what happened.


----------



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

arpeggio said:


> The Met has one of the premier orchestras in the world. If we cut their salaries, then they will turn into a mediocre pit group.
> Then the same people who complain about the decline of classical music in this country will complain on how the Met used to be one of the premier opera companies in the world and they will wonder what happened.


Surely there are diminishing returns when it comes to salaries, in virtually all sectors. Are they twice as good as the BPO, as their salaries indicate?

In the future they might also say The Met used to house a great opera company whereas now it's the premier (and very profitably) concert venue for Jay Z or Kanye West, and occasionally the Mariinsky Opera on tour. Who's to say it could never happen?


----------



## JohnGerald (Jul 6, 2014)

It is very difficult for the opera lover in me to equate the Met's quality with money, but the pragmatist that cohabits in my head (no psychobabble, please; that is the job of my purveyor of adult beverages!) wonders if the whole staff of the Met would be happier with some kind of salary adjustment rather than being out of work?


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Of course there are diminishing return on salaries. I know that everyone who is reading this knows that. Is it really necessary for me to state that a large payroll will not necessarily lead to a first rate opera house?

In order to have a great opera house or orchestra one has to have great musicians, great management and great music directors. I feel silly mentioning this because I feel like I am stating the obvious.

Here in America we have some unique problems. There is a large portion of our society that is against any kind of subsidies for the arts. It is appallingly low when compared with the rest of the world. (Note: Maybe I should say modern industrialize nation. I realize that it would be easy for someone to find a third world country where it is worse.)

One can find many posts here where a member cites that one of America's great musical institutions is struggling and that the only solution is to cut the salaries of the musicians and program only music that real people like to listen too and how these actions will magically save them.

If the Met is in trouble, based on my experiences as an auditor as well as a musician, I seriously doubt that cutting the payroll and staging nothing but traditional productions of _La Traviata_ will save them.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

JohnGerald said:


> It is very difficult for the opera lover in me to equate the Met's quality with money, but the pragmatist that cohabits in my head (no psychobabble, please; that is the job of my purveyor of adult beverages!) wonders if the whole staff of the Met would be happier with some kind of salary adjustment rather than being out of work?


I have audited many companies that went bankrupt. Prior or closing their doors they negotiate major cuts in salaries and benefits with the workers and most of the time these concessions do not work.


----------



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

As an opera fan, I sometimes harbor proxy masochistic thoughts that many of the world's beloved opera houses need to suffer, in order for the art form to survive, develop and be fit for the modern age. 

I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling slightly uncomfortable when thinking of how much (in the UK) the non-opera-goers' taxes are funding my cultural life. A subsidy of £50-£100 per ticket for the UK major opera companies I believe, although I stand to be corrected on the amount.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Funding Website*

I used to know of a website that tracked how much governments subsidized the arts. If I can find it one can see how dismal the USA is when it comes to supporting the arts. If I recall Iceland committed more of its GNP to the arts.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Alexander said:


> Surely there are diminishing returns when it comes to salaries, in virtually all sectors. Are they twice as good as the BPO, as their salaries indicate?


Do they play twice as often? Most opera orchestras do.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> I used to know of a website that tracked how much governments subsidized the arts. If I can find it one can see how dismal the USA is when it comes to supporting the arts. If I recall Iceland committed more of its GNP to the arts.


It's hard to believe that a city (New York) 4 times the size of Paris has 1/10 the number of opera companies.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

why do they need £100,000/year? I'm not trying to be an ****, but really. The mentality is that the better you are, the more money you should get. I think there are a lot of other things beside money one would want from the workplace (job safety, feeling like your grievances are being taken into account, good communication with colleagues, time off flexibility etc.).


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

deggial said:


> why do they need £100,000/year?


Maybe they want to live in Manhattan.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

It's expensive to live in or near a big city. I read that one bedroom apartments in New York rent for $2666 on average.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

then it won't be enough


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

They could live in Brooklyn or Queens, yanno. Still don't need $100,000.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

deggial said:


> why do they need £100,000/year?


Of course there is a point of diminishing return. We have already stated this. That is not the point. One can not field a world class symphony orchestra by paying the musicians £20,000 a year. Job safety is nice but it does not pay the rent.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

It takes money to attract the most talented musicians. But some orchestras have taken large pay cuts in recent years. The Detroit Symphony labor dispute resulted in a pretty big pay cut. Minimum pay went from about $100 k to $80 k. The Met orchestra’s contract expires at the end of July, and the company’s management is trying to reduce labor costs. I hope they can settle without it getting ugly.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Radames said:


> It takes money to attract the most talented musicians. But some orchestras have taken large pay cuts in recent years. The Detroit Symphony labor dispute resulted in a pretty big pay cut. Minimum pay went from about $100 k to $80 k. The Met orchestra's contract expires at the end of July, and the company's management is trying to reduce labor costs. I hope they can settle without it getting ugly.


I was tracking this over the past two or three years -- several major orchestras took cuts of 15-25%. Health care allowances were sometimes affected, and in some cases the orchestras stopped paying for instrument insurance (a big ticket item in the scheme of things). The number of permanent players was reduced in some cases, and pay-per-play was proposed and bargained, though I don't know if this was ever finally agreed to. Strikes or lockouts occurred in several cases, the longest being the Minnesota Orchestra.

None of these orchestras have folded that I know of, contrary to an earlier statement. But there's certainly lingering bitterness and ill will, I'm quite sure.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

deggial said:


> why do they need £100,000/year? I'm not trying to be an ****, but really. The mentality is that the better you are, the more money you should get. I think there are a lot of other things beside money one would want from the workplace (job safety, feeling like your grievances are being taken into account, good communication with colleagues, time off flexibility etc.).


More to the point, why do some principal singers need £15,000 per performance?


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Yes, but is the new Minnesota Orchestra as good as the old? Is there anyone from Minnesota who actually knows the answer to this?

Classical musicians are very intelligent. If they are unable to make a decent wage as a musician they will move on to other professions. For example, I actually knew a gentleman who used to be the principle clarinetist with the United States Army Band. The military was not right for him so he left after a three year tour. He had trouble making ends meet so he went back to law school and eventually became an administrative judge for Environmental Protection Agency. I also know of an awesome bassoon player who has a masters in bassoon performance from the Cincinnati Conservatory who works Housing and Urban Development. One of the chief general counsels for the agency I worked for was an ex-musician. I can not remember what she played. I just remembered that a lawyer I used to work with was also a professional bassoonist. I run into many computer people who used to be professional musicians. The cognitive skills that are needed to be a successful programmer are the same skills one needs to be a musician.

One of the things I have learned about being a musician is that it takes much work to maintain your skills. If a musician secures a position with a symphony orchestra and goes into cruise mode because he now has a job will soon be out of a job, even with a Union.

I realize that my observations are anecdotal and based on my experiences. It there are any practicing professional musicians who think my observations are bogus, I stand corrected.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I was tracking this over the past two or three years -- several major orchestras took cuts of 15-25%. Health care allowances were sometimes affected, and in some cases the orchestras stopped paying for instrument insurance (a big ticket item in the scheme of things). The number of permanent players was reduced in some cases, and pay-per-play was proposed and bargained, though I don't know if this was ever finally agreed to. Strikes or lockouts occurred in several cases, the longest being the Minnesota Orchestra.
> 
> None of these orchestras have folded that I know of, contrary to an earlier statement. But there's certainly lingering bitterness and ill will, I'm quite sure.


No major orchestras have gone under, but some good smaller ones have in Honolulu, Syracuse, and Albuquerque. Some pretty good operas have. Baltimore Opera Company, Connecticut Opera, Florida's Orlando Opera and Southern California's Opera Pacific, San Diego, Opera Boston have all gone under.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Radames said:


> No major orchestras have gone under, but some good smaller ones have in Honolulu, Syracuse, and Albuquerque. Some pretty good operas have. Baltimore Opera Company, Connecticut Opera, Florida's Orlando Opera and Southern California's Opera Pacific, San Diego, Opera Boston have all gone under.


New Orleans and Miami had good orchestras that went under. Some the majors have come close like Philadelphia. The ones that survive has lots of money like Los Angeles.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Radames said:


> No major orchestras have gone under, but some good smaller ones have in Honolulu, Syracuse, and Albuquerque. Some pretty good operas have. Baltimore Opera Company, Connecticut Opera, Florida's Orlando Opera and Southern California's Opera Pacific, *San Diego*, Opera Boston have all gone under.


The last I heard, San Diego had rescinded the vote to close the company, enacted some cost cutting measures, and announced their 2015 season.

San Diego Opera Will Not Close, Announces 2015 Season

Still, it's disheartening when the situation becomes that dire.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Radames said:


> No major orchestras have gone under, but some good smaller ones have in Honolulu, Syracuse, and Albuquerque. Some pretty good operas have. Baltimore Opera Company, Connecticut Opera, Florida's Orlando Opera and Southern California's Opera Pacific, San Diego, Opera Boston have all gone under.


Quite true, plus maybe a few others. Honolulu is back, don't know just how they did that.

BTW, the Spokane (WA) orchestra took cuts. As I remember, base pay, if the sole income, would qualify a small family for food stamps.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> The ones that survive has lots of money like Los Angeles.


Los Angeles has lots of money because they do a lot of concerts and sell lots of tickets for very good prices. LA covers more of its costs from ticket revenues, by far, than any other major US orchestra. Only a quarter of costs need to be covered by donations.

The Met, in contrast, needs to raise over half its costs from donations, much more than most major orchestras. Perhaps the donors are getting a bit tired of that. After all, Mr. Gelb serves at the pleasure of the board, and if the usual pattern follows, most board members are major donors. I am reasonably sure that he has his marching orders.


----------



## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Los Angeles has lots of money because they do a lot of concerts and sell lots of tickets for very good prices. LA covers more of its costs from ticket revenues, by far, than any other major US orchestra. Only a quarter of costs need to be covered by donations.
> 
> The Met, in contrast, needs to raise over half its costs from donations, much more than most major orchestras. Perhaps the donors are getting a bit tired of that. After all, Mr. Gelb serves at the pleasure of the board, and if the usual pattern follows, most board members are major donors. I am reasonably sure that he has his marching orders.


Operating costs will inevitably be much higher in downtown NYC than downtown LA, of course.

Must be the weekend, because I'm getting curious despite myself: do we have detailed knowledge of where these orchestras are spending their money?


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Blancrocher said:


> Operating costs will inevitably be much higher in downtown NYC than downtown LA, of course.
> 
> Must be the weekend, because I'm getting curious despite myself: do we have detailed knowledge of where these orchestras are spending their money?


Both personnel and "other" costs are far higher for the LA Phil than for the NY Phil. The latest years I have show annual costs at $90.4 million in LA and $66.7 million in NY.

Many orchestras publish their audited financials on their web sites, and many do not (for whatever reason). All of the orchestras are required to submit forms annually to the IRS to justify their charitable tax-exempt status. These forms have a lot of financial information and are essentially all available on the Internet.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> Of course there is a point of diminishing return. We have already stated this. That is not the point.


of course it is (one of) the point(s). You obviously can hire excellent musicians for LSO for 1/2 that price.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

PetrB said:


> More to the point, why do some principal singers need £15,000 per performance?


that too.........


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> More to the point, why do some principal singers need £15,000 per performance?


Well I suppose you don't hire the "best" singers, you hire the ones that will fill the house. And they cost more...


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Well I suppose you don't hire the "best" singers, you hire the ones that will fill the house. And they cost more...


And even if you hire the "best" singers, sooner or later they too will fill houses and be in demand . . . and there you go.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The orchestra returns fire: "The musicians said they believed that the Met could save millions of dollars by staging fewer new productions each year, performing fewer long operas that run into overtime, rehearsing less and lowering ticket prices."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/nyregion/26opera.html?_r=0

Management's response: the union's proposals did "everything except address the fundamental economic problem that the Met faces."


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

deggial said:


> of course it is (one of) the point(s). You obviously can hire excellent musicians for LSO for 1/2 that price.


mmm...I'm not so sure that American orchestras should be using the LSO as a model. I believe that things are not to too sweet there. The rest of Europe has been fleecing Britain's best musicians for a while now. A combination of low pay and safe programming has made British orchestras unattractive to musicians. Too many musicians are underpaid/overworked/poor/burnt out/disgruntled/bored. If there's any truth to the grapevine, there have been more than a few conductors complaining about struggling to fire up the musicians for a performance.
London orchestras are highly rated in the English speaking world but is that buoyed by bias from magazines like Gramophone and BBC Music? I don't know. I do know as a musician that it's rated as highly as the Gulag.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

KenOC said:


> The orchestra returns fire: "The musicians said they believed that the Met could save millions of dollars by staging fewer new productions each year, performing fewer long operas that run into overtime, rehearsing less and lowering ticket prices."
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/nyregion/26opera.html?_r=0
> 
> Management's response: the union's proposals did "everything except address the fundamental economic problem that the Met faces."


This article is stating a position that many of us have been saying for years. It appears to me that the musicians assessment is very accurate. Simply cutting the salaries of the musicians will not save the Met if it is trouble. One of the problems that many refuse to acknowledge is that classical music is expensive.

The budget for the community orchestra that I play with, all of our musicians do not get paid, excluding the salary we pay the conductor, when we have the money (there have been some seasons when he worked for nothing) is over $50,000 a year. The only reason we can survive at all is because of the modest grants we receive from the Fairfax and Virginia Commissions of the Arts. I have mentioned this many times in other threads to apparently deaf ears who want to argue with me about it. (Note: We are not a great orchestra. The strings frequently play out of tune and I have had my share of clunkers.)

I am still waiting to hear from anyone in Minnesota concerning the performance level of the new improved orchestra. Minnesota has been one of the great orchestras in the world. It may have survived but has there been a decline in their stature?

There are those who state that there are organizations that can survive cutbacks. I still can only speak from experience. Sure. There are companies that can survive a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. There are exceptions. But majority of them convert to Chapter 7 and are liquated.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Florida Orchestra is a good ensemble, but attendance is sparse, musicians' pay is disgraceful and I'd be very surprised if they are still functioning in 5 years.

When I was living in NYC, the NYC Opera was a breath of fresh air giving promising singers a chance. Forget about them.

Now even the Met is in trouble. Their productions are too expensive, their singers get too much money and to make up for it, they charge too much for tickets. Sooner or later, their loyal, graying, obscenely wealthy society audience will die out and nobody will be taking their place. Everyone else is watching Dancing With The Stars.


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

*Some Resources*

Consider this post only a start for further research.

_________________________
Metropolitan Opera Annual Reports

The Metropolitan Opera FY 2013 Financial Statement pdf

The Met Opera wiki page includes enterprises of the Opera, which are

2 Technological innovations
2.1 Met Titles
2.2 Tessitura software​
3 Multimedia
3.1 Broadcast radio
3.2 Satellite radio
3.3 Television
3.4 High-definition video
3.5 Internet​
4 Opera houses
4.1 Metropolitan Opera House, Broadway
4.2 Metropolitan Opera House, Lincoln Center
4.3 Metropolitan Opera House, Philadelphia​
What software program has the Met Opera helped develop and currently uses?
*Tessitura* wiki | Tessiture software home page, which includes a video I couldn't find elsewhere.​
_________________________
Top three listed Directors  on the web page copyrighted 2014: Ann Ziff, Chairman; Kevin W. Kennedy, President and Chief Executive Officer; Mercedes T. Bass, Vice Chairman

Who is Kevin W. Kennedy? (1) Wallace Foundation

Who is Kevin W. Kennedy? (2) Bloomberg highlights mine

Mr. Kevin W. Kennedy serves as Head of Goldman Sachs Latin America of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Mr. Kennedy served as an Executive Vice President of Human Capital Management of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. since December 2001. From 1999 to 2001, Mr. Kennedy served as a Member of the Executive Office of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. From 1994 to 1999, Mr. Kennedy served as Head of the Americas Group, a combination of Corporate Finance, Investment Banking Services and Structured Finance for the United States, Canada and Latin America, where he served as Head of Corporate Finance from 1988 to 1994. He served as Managing Director and Vice President of the Board of the Metropolitan Opera. Mr. Kennedy serves as Chairman of The Wallace Foundation. He served as Chairman of Hamilton College and also serves as a Trustee. He serves as a Director at Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts, Inc. He serves as a Trustee of the New York Public Library and an Honorary Trustee of the Chewonki Foundation.​
Photograph 77th Annual Metropolitan Opera Guild Luncheon | (L-R) President and CEO of the Metropolitan Opera Kevin W. Kennedy, Mercedes Bass, and Doris P. Meister attend the 77th Annual Metropolitan Opera Guild luncheon's honoring of Marilyn Horne at The Waldorf-Astoria on October 31, 2011 in New York City.

_________________________
NYT Countdown to Lockout for Unions at the Met | July 28, 2014

_________________________
Reference the Koch brothers, namely David H. Koch Theater


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

PetrB said:


> More to the point, why do some principal singers need £15,000 per performance?


Just remember that the singer's fee covers airfares and other travel, and living expenses in the city during rehearsal time for which they are not paid, and living expenses for the time when they are not performing, and coaching and other expenses.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

An interesting view of the Met's problems from across the ditch.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/30/-sp-new-york-met-opera-labour-lockout


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Outstanding Article!!!!!!!!!*



KenOC said:


> An interesting view of the Met's problems from across the ditch.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/30/-sp-new-york-met-opera-labour-lockout


Outstanding article!!!!


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, today (Thursday) was the lockout deadline. But it has been extended by 72 hours, three days. No story, just a tweet.

Added: I see the two sides have agreed to a federal mediator.


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

Until I discover differently, which is not likely to happen soon, music writers and journalists will only comment on topics approved by editors, and then one must review the corporate ladder into competitive arenas of CEOs' and Directors' approvals.

When algorithmic goals, percentages and quotas are absent from the discussion, few can observe the complications of being artistically creative, or attempting to be. And Mr. Tommasini and others are not revealing financial aspects present as bankers' principles are perpetually founded on (immediate) profits quarter to quarter, year to year. Among employees and contractors, i.e., at the Met, who are not targeted within algorithmic-oriented businesses in the 21st Century?

Highlights mine in the following three snippets.

_________________________
*Let's Talk About Risk at the Metropolitan Opera*
NYT, Anthony Tommasini | August 6, 2014

< snip from the top of a long commentary >

*Now, Mr. Gelb has been criticized legitimately for mounting too many trendy, timid shows*. The director Deborah Warner's unfocused staging of Tchaikovsky's "Eugene Onegin" was not as daring, and certainly not as beautiful, as the Robert Carsen production it replaced.

*Opera is musical drama, yes, but music matters more than the quality of productions*. The tenor Jonas Kaufmann's magnificent singing in the title role of Massenet's "Werther" this past season will surely be remembered longer than the muddled new staging of the opera that Mr. Gelb gave us.

< snip >

Overall, the mix of solid hits and so-so shows under Mr. Gelb had been about in line with the record of previous general managers. Yet, *Mr. Gelb's new productions seem not to have reversed the decline in attendance. At a time of financial crisis, he must grapple with tough questions*: Will he continue with the Met's "Traviata" for the foreseeable future? Having seen it once, will Verdi fans, even those deeply affected by the production, want to see it again? And again?

*When Mr. Gelb arrived in 2006, he presented himself as a business-savvy savior come to bring innovation to a field in crisis and rescue a great company heading toward insolvency. Such talk, among other annoying things, slighted the record of his predecessor, Joseph Volpe*, who, during 16 years, expanded the Met's repertory with some 20 works new to the company, including daring 20th-century operas like Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District," a powerful 1994 production slated to return this season. You could argue that another Volpe initiative, Met Titles, the company's innovative system of seat-back English translations, introduced in 1995, did as much, if not more, to demystify opera and entice newcomers to the house than the HD broadcasts.

< snip >

When the New York City Opera kept downsizing in a desperate attempt to stay in business, it seemed unthinkable that New York, the cultural capital of the world, could not find a way to support two major opera companies. Come September, if a work shutout is imposed, and the talks are not resolved, New York could be left without any.

< end commentary >​


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

*Met's Labor Woes Divide Opera Fans as Well as Participants*
NYT, Michael Cooper | August 10, 2014

< Cooper's introductory paragraph as excerpt, here >

The labor strife at the Metropolitan Opera has inflamed the passions of opera lovers, stoking debate in a world that relishes rivalries even in happier times: Wagnerites versus Verdians, Callas worshipers versus Tebaldi-ites, modernists versus those who think opera ended with Puccini.​


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm so sorry to read that the Baltimore Opera closed its doors in 2009. I attended the productions of both Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth" & Verdi's "Rigoletto" and remember them quite fondly. Signs of the times, it seems, as this is yet another example of a major institution, so much part of a place's identity and history, folded due to structural changes, changes in demographics and tastes, and, as so often the case, mis-managements & lack of innovation and foresight. Tragic news for all, one way or another.


----------



## Gizmo (Mar 28, 2013)

Update on this. The new date is Aug 17.

Negotiations between the Met and the musicians (Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians) and the chorus and other members of the American Guild of Musical Artists (AGMA) will resume this week. The Met has announced a new deadline of Sunday, August 17th for the completion of an agreement.

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/prnewswire/press_releases/New_York/2014/08/11/DC87691


----------



## xpangaeax (Oct 1, 2013)

The problem is twofold: one, there isn't enough of a new or young audience. There are probably plenty of people in their 20s who live in or near New York who would love to subscribe or even see 1-2 shows a year, but with the crippling student loan debt in a poor job market - the Opera is a luxury that isn't accessible. Second, entertainers of all sorts have a notorious history of thinking they're worth more than they actually are. If ticket sales are down, then you're not worth the exorbitant salary you're asking for.


----------



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

This seems to be a multi-faceted situation. 

Thinking about ticket prices, I know opera tickets can be expensive, but are they any more expensive than rock shows or basketball at MSG? Seems to me there's not a lot in it. People (perhaps not impecunious students) seem to find the same kind of money for other entertainments. If audiences are down then that is the management's problem (to figure out why and resolve it), not the employees.

I love the Met, but it's frightfully large. Maybe they need to think the unthinkable... they can sell or use it as a concert hall (i.e. rock, pop, jazz and ... er... rap  and then find or build a more suitably sized house? (Just an idea!)

Clearly something has to change.


----------



## marienbad (Aug 10, 2014)

Do any know if any progress has been made ?


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

marienbad said:


> Do any know if any progress has been made ?


I've seen no further news, which may be good news...maybe. Today is the deadline for agreement set by Met management.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

It's lookin' good.


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/arts/music/metropolitan-opera-and-two-unions-reach-a-tentative-deal.html


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

^ Michael Cooper of NYT wrote a supplement: In Surprise Finale at Metropolitan Opera's Labor Talks, Both Sides Agree to Cuts.


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

*Metropolitan Opera Clears Last Major Hurdle in Labor Talks*
NYT Michael Cooper | Aug 20, 2014

< excerpt begin >

Once the deal was reached [Wednesday] at 3:15 a.m. after a marathon bargaining session at the opera house, the Met dropped its threat of a lockout and announced that its season would open on schedule on Sept. 22 with a new production of Mozart's "Le Nozze di Figaro" conducted by James Levine, the Met's music director - the first of six operas he plans to conduct.

But while there was a palpable sense of relief that the Met had pulled back from the brink of a serious crisis, challenges remained. The labor talks, in which management sought and won concessions, were vitriolic, and the frayed relationship between the artists and artisans of the Met and its general manager, Peter Gelb, are in need of repair. And since the Met's management agreed to make its own significant budget cuts, it will need to find ways to trim expenses in the coming years without diminishing the luxe experience Met operagoers expect.

< excerpt end >​


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

"Can an opera company indefinitely support thousands of practitioners of arcane crafts? Must a costly large-scale art form inevitably be a luxury product, or can technology help it reach a wider public than ever? Do the new rich even have any interest? More immediately, can the company put on good-enough shows to fill its yawning house?"

http://www.vulture.com/2014/08/justin-davidson-metropolitan-opera-crisis-over.html


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*It's the Economy*

I realize that in the U. S. the performing arts are having problems.

There is a Pollyanna notion that the cause is inferior contemporary music and/or unions which result in the artists being overpaid. Some of us here have had some experience in administration of performing arts groups and these notions do not conform with our experiences. (Note: I have served on the boards of for some groups, including the position of treasurer with one organization. I have also spent twenty-nine years as a pension auditor.)

Vesuvius and Vaneyes have posted articles which appear to jive with my experiences:

http://www.talkclassical.com/33714-trouble-funding-arts.html#post707552

http://www.talkclassical.com/33714-trouble-funding-arts.html#post707959

http://www.talkclassical.com/21629-conductor-news-18.html#post708035

The situation is that the economic models that we have used in past to support the performing fine arts in the U. S. may no longer work.

What is the solution? I really do not know. Because of the political climate in America one can forget any kind of meaningful government subsidies.

What I do know is that cutting the salaries of the musicians and performing nothing but music that real people like will not magically turn things around.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Did Peter Gelb give away the store?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sightings-apocalypse-later-1409271936


----------



## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

Referring to the WSJ article KenOC posted ^ above, the following essay was published some 34 years ago, telling a similar tale as if it was today's Met unions.

_________________________
*The Metropolitan Opera Lockout* | a 4-page pdf

From _Senza Sordino_ | Official Publication of the International Conference of Symphony & Opera Musicians
Volume XVIV; December, 1980-No. 2​
*The Saga of an Orchestra
by Sandor Balint, Metropolitan Opera Orchestra*

< first two paragraphs as introductory excerpt >

The 1980 negotiations between the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and its management produced an incredible plethora of passion, color, spirit, and resolve on the part of the Met Opera Orchestra.

The chiaroscuro in this picture, with its details, could provide _Senza_ with articles that would be humorous, frightening, or tearful for years to come. Taking on the largest musical organization in the United States with its Board who represent the super-power and wealth structure of America could be made into an opera of its own. One hardly knows where to begin.​
< end excerpt >


----------



## Divasin (Aug 8, 2014)

Gelb gave away the store when he commissioned that white elephant of aRing cycle designed by Lepage.
Watching it both in performance and in rehearsal it was an afront to the singers who struggled with it's physical demands.
Aside from the enormous expense his waywardsense of priorities resulted in a dramatically inert spectacle....a burden on the Met for years to come.


----------



## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

*Realistic Prices*



PetrB said:


> Of course they're in trouble.
> 
> An upper balcony, furthest back and highest tier seat, Chicago Civic Opera, for a 'not special, not major gala, not benefit gala production of La Boheme? $144.oo -- really. Oh yeah, I'm gonna sign up for the whole season of antique chestnuts right away, a pop at just $144 per show.


Don't know when that Boheme was (it's not offered in 2014/15) but those same seats for Don Giovanni in October are $59 ($20 for children). Still not cheap but no $144 and I assume even cheaper in packaged deals.


----------

