# Beginner's Guide to Classical Music



## Charlie Mac (May 23, 2015)

On the Guardian website, they've been getting a few people to name five or six pieces that they'd recommend to a newcomer to classical music.

Which pieces would you recommend?


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## wzg (Jun 17, 2013)

Bruckner 9's scherzo...where I began Bruckner


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

These are always fun, though a bit challenging to limit the number to ONLY 6. A good "beginners" list should be diverse and try to show the spectrum of classical, especially to those why may have the preconceived idea that it all sounds the same, like relaxing or light... So, here is my list, based off of what first got me into classical

1. Bach - Passacaglia and Fugue
2. Beethoven - Symphony no. 6
3. Brahms - Piano Quartet no. 3
4. Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto no. 2
5. Shostakovich - String Quartet no. 8 
6. Reich - Octet [8 Lines]


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

It depends so much on the point of departure, temper and habits of the new listener, whether there´ll be any success with the chosen pieces ...

Overall, I´d try to at least illustrate variety of the genres. A very quickly improvised list of 6 works for an otherwise well-orientated listener, could be

- Vivaldi: L´Estro Armonico/Marriner
- Händel: Dixit Dominus /Öhrwall
- Mozart: 9th Piano Concerto
- Beethoven: Sonata 31
- Debussy: Trio Sonata
- Stravinsky: Ebony Concerto


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Assuming that the goal is to bring a musically naive person into classical music, I would keep the overall spectrum small at first, and rather focus on pieces that go down easily with a large number of listeners. So I would suggest Orff: Carmina Burana; Shostakovich: Second Piano Concerto; Prokofiev: Lieutenant Kije Suite; Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker music; Beethoven: Sixth Symphony; Vivaldi: Seasons; Puccini: La Boheme excerpts; Respighi: Pines, Fountains, Feste Romane; Rachmaninoff: selected Preludes and Etudes; Chopin: big Polonaises, well-known Waltzes, etc., etc......


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

1. Gregorian chant
2. Gesualdo madrigals book 6
3. Bach Well Tempered Claver
4. Beethoven Symphony 6
5. Schoenberg Pierrot Lunaire
6. Boulez Repons


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

For an overview of vocal music:

1. Machaut's Mass
2. Lassus's Penitential Psalms
3. Bach's St. Matthew Passion
4. Mozart's Marriage of Figaro
5. Wagner's Tristan und Isolde
6. Berg's Wozzeck


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2015)

Varese, Poeme electronique

Shields, Coyote

Merzbow, 1930


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

1. Vivaldi: Concerto per eco in lontana in A, for 4 violins, RV552 
It was the Prince of Poland's favorite for a reason!

2. Mondonville: Grands Motets 
One catchy melody after another, and nobody's heard of it.

3. Stravinsky (with Balanchine): Agon 
Those poor dancers!

4. Ligeti: Hungarian Rock
Crazy! 

5. Georg Friedrich Haas: String Quartet #3
Lights out!

6. Michel van der Aa: Up-Close
If you don't like the music, there's always the movie.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2015)

some guy said:


> Varese, Poeme electronique
> Shields, Coyote
> Merzbow, 1930


The OP, SomeGuy you naughty boy, was "Beginner's Guide to *Classical* Music". Now it might well be that I've had a little too much Beaujolais nouveau, but since when does the Varèse "Poème" fit that bill? If the OP had been "Beginner's Guide to Western Art Music from _circa_ the 11th century to the present day" I might have gone along with you. Even so, I can think of more pertinent examples than yours, so there!!


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## TradeMark (Mar 12, 2015)

Here are some pieces that helped me get into classical music
1. Bach - Brandenburg Concertos
2. Mozart - Symphony 40
3. Beethoven - Symphony 9
4. Dvorak - "New World" Symphony
5. Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
6. Schoenberg - Pierrot Lunaire


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I wouldn't recommend unless I knew 
The person I'm recommending to 
Since I don't
I won't
And neither should you!

(That's not an admonition, 
I just needed an easy rhyme.
I'd have thought of something better 
If I had had a bit more I time.)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

To begin the journey? Clear, memorable melody. Brilliant, evocative orchestration. Rhythms that make you want to move. But subtler beauties too, dreams, poetry. Six pieces? Impossible. But here:

1. Bach: _Mass in B-minor._ Listen to a little at a time, or as much as you can take in. There's a cosmos in it. 
2. Beethoven: _Symphony #9._ As near to summing up Beethoven, and Enlightenment Humanism, as a single work can be.
3. Wagner: _Der Ring des Nibelungen._ One opera at a time, one act at a time. An epic journey into the Romantic imagination. 
4. Verdi: _Rigoletto._ Italian Opera at its dramatic and melodious best. 
5. Debussy: _The Afternoon of a Faun_. A time out for daydreams, and the dawning of Modernism.
6. Stravinsky: _The Firebird._ Sheer enchantment, exotic Nationalism, and a bridge from Rimsky-Korsakov and Debussy to the barbarism of _The Rite of Spring_ (listen to _Sheherezade_, then _Firebird_, then _Rite_).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

EdwardBast said:


> I wouldn't recommend unless I knew
> The person I'm recommending to
> Since I don't
> I won't
> ...


You had time for that second one.


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## LHB (Nov 1, 2015)

Try this album.


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## Sherkel (Jul 27, 2014)

wzg said:


> Bruckner 9's scherzo...where I began Bruckner


I second this. This was my introduction to his work as well!


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2015)

TalkingHead said:


> The OP, SomeGuy you naughty boy, was "Beginner's Guide to *Classical* Music". Now it might well be that I've had a little too much Beaujolais nouveau, but since when does the Varèse "Poème" fit that bill? If the OP had been "Beginner's Guide to Western Art Music from _circa_ the 11th century to the present day" I might have gone along with you. Even so, I can think of more pertinent examples than yours, so there!!


I simply listed three things that I know for a fact were entry level pieces for three actual people.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2015)

Was this the article...?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mu...for-beginners-playlist-barbican-sound-unbound

It's more interesting to see what has been recommended than to recommend, IMO.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

I immediately thought of an inspiring series of evening classes that were presented by a wonderful music lecturer almost 30 years ago. He played us a series of pieces and discussed each one with us. It was truly inspirational and opened our ears to what there was available and how they could be enjoyed in different ways. He played us:

Vivaldi - one of the Four Seasons (I can't remember which)

Mozart - one of the late symphonies (I can't remember which)

Debussy - possibly _Prelude d'apres midi d'une faun_

Schoenberg - probably _verklarte nacht_

Messaen - part of Catalogues d'oiseaux

Mahler - a movement from one of the symphonies (I can't remember which)

Yes - I can remember how these talks made me feel, rather than the detail of what he said or what we listened to. For me, that is the most important thing about the choice of music to share with a beginner - to pick pieces that you are very enthusiastic about and to share that enthusiasm in a two-way conversation along with the person you are trying to enthuse - to open their mind to the enormous range of possibilities that are waiting out there


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Classical music works for such a newcomer may well be eclectic in taste.

The 6 set of works could include: 
*
Josquin Des Prez - Motets *
Refreshing and completely mesmerising especially the recording sung by Orlando Consort
*
Johann Sebastian Bach - Well Tempered Clavier Book 1 & 2 *
This should be taken very slowly, 12 preludes & fugues at a time over few weeks. Richter followed by Gould and then a bit of harpsichord magic as delivered by Kenneth Gilbert. WTC should provide enough foundation for any other music era, in my opinion.

*Wolfgang Mozart - Piano Concerti 19 to 24*
Something should click when listening to any of these and hopefully the MOzart bug would take hold of its host!
*
Richard Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen *
Another slow but fabulous undertaking. Video is a must in order to immerse oneself in this magestic opera. First listen should be to a set according to Wagner's interpretation such as Levine's Met interpretation. This should be followed by the oh so grand Barenboim version. Solti set is the final listen - I am listening to it now as I write. 
*
Alban Berg - Violin Concerto*
Yep - need a modern non-tonal twist. Repeated listening is a must until something clicks (hopefully!)
*
Ligeti - Requiem*
Listen at midnight, closed headphones, candlelight - freaky! 
Great for someone who thinks classical music is for the light hearted!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I looked at the Guardian piece. I've looked at all of the contributions to this thread. It is clear that we have not had postulated for us the age or previous musical experience of this hypothetical beginner. In a number of posts it is clear to me anyway, that some contributors' first priority is to ride their hobbyhorses, and not to consider the readiness of a musically naive newbie to absorb such new sounds as "classical music", with any assurance that the fish will be hooked. I was eased into classical music while quite young, hearing things like the Polovtsian Dances, Nutcracker and the like on 78s, and expanding from there in all directions. But I find strange the notion that someone of a somewhat older age, teen, 20s, whatever, nourished only on a diet of Pop, C&W, "easy listening", is going to want to hear three sets of The Ring, the Berg violin concerto, the entire WTC, and so many other what I consider bizarre offerings proposed For The Beginner. I visualize instead a thundering retreat back to the certainties of their previous musics--"I tried classical, but it was crazy, boring, weird....."

But maybe it was all meant to be a joke, and I've misunderstood. It's happened before. No offense intended.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Strange Magic said:


> But I find strange the notion that someone of a somewhat older age, teen, 20s, whatever, nourished only on a diet of Pop, C&W, "easy listening", is going to want to hear three sets of The Ring, the Berg violin concerto, the entire WTC, and so many other what I consider bizarre offerings proposed For The Beginner. I visualize instead a thundering retreat back to the certainties of their previous musics--"I tried classical, but it was crazy, boring, weird.....".


Why not? I've always found strange the notion that someone weaned on Rock or Hip-hop would want to listen to the Nutcracker. Much of today's pop isn't "melodic" in that way.

Length of the works is certainly a big issue, but I think the assumption is you'd listen to it in bits first, work your way up. I know lot of Rock fans who take a shine to The Ring's excerpts (especially Ride of the Valkyries).


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The answer is a controlled experiment. Double-blind; all the usual precautions. Maybe TC could sponsor it.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Yeah, but that's not going to happen. 

But I do like the premise that you don't know anything about the listener, so you choose a variety of works, hoping for at least one hit.

I'd put Bolero on my list. very popular work that seems to connect, despite its lack of snappy tunes.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Bolero. Henry Miller wrote that Ravel could have driven us all mad. Yes to Bolero.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Any list of 5 or 6 pieces will tell the beginner not-very-much about classical music, so I suppose the only real requirement is that the selected works not be too similar to each other (for a given value of "similar", of course!). A wide-ranging random selection might well be as effective for any particular listener as a thoughtfully devised one, or a set of "hobbyhorses" for that matter.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> .... it is clear to me anyway, that some contributors' first priority is to ride their hobbyhorses, and not to consider the readiness of a musically naive newbie to absorb such new sounds as "classical music", with any assurance that the fish will be hooked. ..... I find strange the notion that someone (a beginner) ..... is going to want to hear ..... what I consider bizarre offerings proposed For The Beginner. .....
> 
> But maybe it was all meant to be a joke, and I've misunderstood. It's happened before. No offense intended.


Yeh, but I don't have The Three Tenors Concert or anything by Katherine Jenkins nor the Harry Potter film music ... so I'd rather share what I find wonderful instead of dumbing it down by going for what Beecham called 'lollipops'


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> Any list of 5 or 6 pieces will tell the beginner not-very-much about classical music, so I suppose the only real requirement is that the selected works not be too similar to each other (for a given value of "similar", of course!). A wide-ranging random selection might well be as effective for any particular listener as a thoughtfully devised one, or a set of "hobbyhorses" for that matter.


I don't think the goal should be to show the beginner the vastness of the universe that classical encompasses, but rather to get them to start listening to and enjoying music that is called classical music, as a habit. After the habit is ingrained, the beginner then, usually over years or decades, will branch out into the various realms. But the best lure for these fish remain our old friends Melody, Harmony, Rhythm--all clearly evidenced and delineated in relatively short and widely popular pieces. These pieces should be similar enough to reinforce and replicate the initial pleasure that the beginner might derive from them, thus habituating the beginner to expect pleasure from new but similar musics. Say they like Borodin; the likelihood that they will like Rimsky and Mussorgsky is high-- they then might like Firebird, then Petrouchka, and who knows where that will take them next? Random-number approaches to this challenge of introducing beginners to classical will only get you random-number results.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

There are plenty of classical music samplers or "Greatest Hits" packages that have attempted to answer this question. Between those and a decent classical radio station, I think new listeners are covered.

Exploration of any genre of music has to be motivated by something. Usually, it is a piece of music that somebody has heard by chance and likes enough to want more. Personally, I would not look for a six-hour tour of a genre that I have had little or bad experiences with. I would need something to hook me into it.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Yeh, but I don't have The Three Tenors Concert or anything by Katherine Jenkins nor the Harry Potter film music ... so I'd rather share what I find wonderful instead of dumbing it down by going for what Beecham called 'lollipops'


Is the goal for you to share what you find wonderful, or is it to get beginners into classical music? Better the _Grand Canyon Suite_ than even my Prokofiev Third Symphony.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Is the goal for you to share what you find wonderful, or is it to get beginners into classical music? Better the _Grand Canyon Suite_ than even my Prokofiev Third Symphony.


I think the enthusiasm and passion of someone who loves music is very powerful , so in answer to your suggestion ... absolutely not - I don't like Grofe's CG Suite at all so I'd rather share something that I am very enthusiastic for, even if it is challenging

but there's plenty of roads to Rome, so you and I can approach the issue according to our own paths :tiphat:


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> 1. Gregorian chant
> 2. Gesualdo madrigals book 6
> 3. Bach Well Tempered Claver
> 4. Beethoven Symphony 6
> ...


I like what you did there...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> For an overview of vocal music:
> 
> 1. Machaut's Mass
> 2. Lassus's Penitential Psalms
> ...


Even if we're trying to introduce beginners to a spectral history of just vocal music, it's still difficult. Stopping at Wozzeck would leave off the vocal innovations of Berio and Monk.


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> I looked at the Guardian piece. I've looked at all of the contributions to this thread. It is clear that we have not had postulated for us the age or previous musical experience of this hypothetical beginner. In a number of posts it is clear to me anyway, that some contributors' first priority is to ride their hobbyhorses, and not to consider the readiness of a musically naive newbie to absorb such new sounds as "classical music", with any assurance that the fish will be hooked. I was eased into classical music while quite young, hearing things like the Polovtsian Dances, Nutcracker and the like on 78s, and expanding from there in all directions. But I find strange the notion that someone of a somewhat older age, teen, 20s, whatever, nourished only on a diet of Pop, C&W, "easy listening", is going to want to hear three sets of The Ring, the Berg violin concerto, the entire WTC, and so many other what I consider bizarre offerings proposed For The Beginner. I visualize instead a thundering retreat back to the certainties of their previous musics--"I tried classical, but it was crazy, boring, weird....."
> 
> But maybe it was all meant to be a joke, and I've misunderstood. It's happened before. No offense intended.


Well at least it is not as boring as the "Best Classical Music Hits Compilation"

If the beginner's palate needs a less radical list I could advise something different:

Allegri - Miserere

Bach - Double Violin Concerto

Mozart - Requiem. 
The Lacrimosa was my first hook years ago

Sibelius - 5th symphony

Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time

Adams - Gran Pianola Music

Then try the Well Tempered Clavier, really!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Muse Wanderer said:


> Well at least it is not as boring as the "Best Classical Music Hits Compilation"
> 
> If the beginner's palate needs a less radical list I could advise something different


Again we must ask: What Is The Goal? Is it to introduce the beginner to classical music, with some hope that our efforts will succeed? Or is it that we, the tutors, minimize our own sense of boredom? Let's bring on the Babbitt and Berg then, and hope for the best. And I scratch my head over the implication that some beginners require more radical lists, and others, less radical lists. What sort of beginners to classical are we dealing with here?

Ride 'em Cowboys 'n' Cowgirls! Whoopee!


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

If the beginner is a female start her off with Clair de lune and if she doesn't like it move on to the next person.

Do the same thing with males by introducing them to Beethoven's 5th if they're the captain Jack kind of guys or to the Goldbergs if they're the softer kind of men, an if they don't like, move on.


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Again we must ask: What Is The Goal? Is it to introduce the beginner to classical music, with some hope that our efforts will succeed? Or is it that we, the tutors, minimize our own sense of boredom? Let's bring on the Babbitt and Berg then, and hope for the best. And I scratch my head over the implication that some beginners require more radical lists, and others, less radical lists. What sort of beginners to classical are we dealing with here?
> 
> Ride 'em Cowboys 'n' Cowgirls! Whoopee!


Yep I was a beginner too, as all of us at some point were.

In my experience if I was not ready to make the effort from the start I would have retreated to non-classical genres again.

Thus my start with Mozart Requiem, and it was an epiphany!

Then came Beethoven 9th followed by Bach Double violin concerto.

Bach was a real revelation... so I listened to his Well Tempered Clavier even before venturing onto his Branderburg's. And I am so glad I did it. It probably took me a year to stop frequent listens to the two books but oh what an experience it was and still is!

Easy romantic music ala Tchaikovsky, whilst I now love it, would certainly have repelled me at the time. Too much sugar but no substance.

It is all subjective but easy listens are simply not worth it even for starters. There will be ample time later for The Nutcracker, Holst's the Planets, Prokofiev 1st symphony, Grieg's Hall of the Mountain King, Orff's Carmina Burana and Mozart's Eine Kleine Nacht Musik.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Muse Wanderer said:


> It is all subjective but easy listens are simply not worth it even for starters. There will be ample time for Nutcracker, the Planets, Prokovief 1st, Hall of the Mountain King or Eine Kleine Nacht Musik.


 If it's all subjective, then we can't say that classical easy listens are simply not worth it even for starters. One asks: Is it plausible that there are large percentages of those who have come to love classical from a zero base, but who would be/have been/are repelled by the excerpts from popular symphonies, ballet suites, Chopin waltzes, etc. that form the backbone of classical easy listening disks? I think not. I'm not a big fan of such disks, but I doubt whether they hinder anyone from getting involved in classical music, and have likely launched many into a lifelong interest. That is plausible.


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> If it's all subjective, then we can't say that classical easy listens are simply not worth it even for starters. One asks: Is it plausible that there are large percentages of those who have come to love classical from a zero base, but who would be/have been/are repelled by the excerpts from popular symphonies, ballet suites, Chopin waltzes, etc. that form the backbone of classical easy listening disks? I think not. I'm not a big fan of such disks, but I doubt whether they hinder anyone from getting involved in classical music, and have likely launched many into a lifelong interest. That is plausible.


I am not disagreeing with you as both approaches would probably yield results depending on the musical background of the beginner. There are different ways to get hooked into this world as we have noted.

In my case I was too much into alternative rock, 40s, 50s, 60s music, and anything non-pop related. I was listening to Woody Guthrie for goodness sake! So if you gave me an 'easy' Chopin nocturne I would probably have disregarded it.

A Bach fugue would certainly have intrigued me!

Whenever I watched 2001 Space Odyssey as a kid, the music was astonishing especially the Ligeti pieces.

Kubrik's The Shining music was tremendous - same composer, Mr Ligeti with Penderecki and Bartok.

I loved these composers 20 years before I knew their names!

Mozart was my key as he has both blends somewhat - the superficiality and easy hooking sugary melodies and the deep structure underneath that grabs you like no other.

From Mozart I found my way to Penderecki, Ligeti, Bartok and so many others. The circle was closed...


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> One asks: Is it plausible that there are large percentages of those who have come to love classical from a zero base, but who would be/have been/are repelled by the excerpts from popular symphonies, ballet suites, Chopin waltzes, etc. that form the backbone of classical easy listening disks?


since you ask ... yes, this *is* plausible

As I said earlier, there are many roads to Rome (or ... there are many ways to skin a cat)


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I don't think the goal should be to show the beginner the vastness of the universe that classical encompasses, but rather to get them to start listening to and enjoying music that is called classical music, as a habit. After the habit is ingrained, the beginner then, usually over years or decades, will branch out into the various realms. But the best lure for these fish remain our old friends Melody, Harmony, Rhythm--all clearly evidenced and delineated in relatively short and widely popular pieces. These pieces should be similar enough to reinforce and replicate the initial pleasure that the beginner might derive from them, thus habituating the beginner to expect pleasure from new but similar musics. Say they like Borodin; the likelihood that they will like Rimsky and Mussorgsky is high-- they then might like Firebird, then Petrouchka, and who knows where that will take them next? Random-number approaches to this challenge of introducing beginners to classical will only get you random-number results.


Well, my point about random selections is that one might as well start them off on Petrouchka so that they eventually like Borodin.

We're talking about hypothetical people here anyway, but we can assume that this beginner actually _wants_ to explore classical music and even if they're put off by the 5 or 6 pieces we suggest, they're smart and interested enough to know that this isn't all of classical music, and not give up.

I think back to my own start in classical - The Planets, Peer Gynt suites, 1812 overture, plus a few usual-suspects compilations of short pieces and excerpts. After a few years of such fare, I decided to take the plunge into Wagner's Ring and was blown away. But not long afterwards I came across Philip Glass and was blown away again - and there had been nothing in my previous classical listening to suggest that I would be. And some of the usual suspects, like Chopin, made little impression on me. So you never know.

Statistically speaking, the usual-suspects approach might make sense because these pieces are tried-and-tested, but I wonder sometimes if such music is itself off-putting to some potential listeners who may have a different notion of what classical music can be for them.

Actually some thoughts related to this struck me as I was listening to a little-known piece last night by Irish composer Seán Ó Riada, _Hercules Dux Ferrariae_. It's a serialist, or at least serialist-inspired, work from 1957, which I first heard as a teenager about 30 years ago in a recording in my father's small LP collection. It was the only 20th-century music he had (I think he bought it because he'd known the composer in college). At the time I found it an interesting but austere and somewhat forbidding work - not an opinion I hold today; it's quite light and charming to me now! I got to thinking about what impact on my young ears might have occurred if I had somehow received a nudge to listen to it more back then. I wasn't aware of other modernist music so I had no particular prejudice against it. My listening may have taken a completely different direction. Not that I regret the direction I took - my point simply is _you never know_.


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

The usual suspects may not be attractive to a beginner as they are too similar to film music or TV advert music. Maybe exposure to best of baroque, best of classical era may be better suited. 

On the other hand, exposing someone to something entirely new is like tasting completely new food. It may completely surprise the new listener. 

It can be related to going for holiday to the same old beaches etc, and then going to an exotic place with all its different experiences. 

Another allegory is someone who ventures into sports - it is very satisfying but only if dedication by the participant is omnipresent. 

Easy to listen classical may not present a challenge and sometimes a 'baptism of fire' is needed. 

In my case I did use a 'Best of Mozart' CD as a spring board but just for a week or two. The Confutatis followed by Lacrimosa hooked me and I needed to listen to the whole Requiem. 

The Requiem was my 'baptism of fire'. Since then I never looked back.

I for one would have loved it if I explored Wagner years ago, but that's me. I have been listening to the entire Gotterdamerung on a weekly basis these past few weeks. Yesterday my skin was shivering for the umpteenth time when Siegfried's Funeral March blasted though my speakers. That is an example of the experience that I think is needed. 

That shock like experience, that stunning discovery will be the stimulus to a beginner to explore more and more.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> Well, my point about random selections is that one might as well start them off on Petrouchka so that they eventually like Borodin.
> 
> We're talking about hypothetical people here anyway, but we can assume that this beginner actually _wants_ to explore classical music and even if they're put off by the 5 or 6 pieces we suggest, they're smart and interested enough to know that this isn't all of classical music, and not give up.
> 
> ...


@Nereffid & Muse Wanderer: I fully appreciate your point(s) that there may be a wide spectrum of beginners out there, bringing highly varied backgrounds and mindsets with them into the introduction process, and that there is no "knowing" in advance what work or works will serve as a trigger for a lifelong interest in classical.

I also appreciate everyone's urge, just like my own, to offer personal testimony on our own paths to classical--everyone seems to remember those earliest stimuli. But if we are to stick to what is most likely to be effective for the largest population of would-be classical music lovers, it seems to me to be clear that sticking with the tried-and-true warhorses--the Russians, Respighi, _The Planets,_ excerpts from symphonies, ballet suites, etc.--will entice the greater number of people into classical than will scattershot random efforts drawing from some of the more remote territories under the classical banner.

There is no question that classical music is in transition. Norman Lebrecht's _Who Killed Classical Music_ offers one set of perils; the fragmentation of the arts as postulated under cultural stasis offers other explanations. Whether we will get fresh recruits in numbers to sustain large-work, large-ensemble, large concert hall classical music remains to be seen. At least we have CDs and YouTube while the electrical grid endures.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't think this is so difficult. If you're dealing with a real beginner who has no idea what he likes, choose six very different works from six different musical eras, all of high quality. If he responds to some of them, direct him to more music of that style and let him take it from there. If he doesn't like any of it, pick something as different as you can imagine and start the process over.

What a boring post this is. Whatever happened to "Why do you NOT like Wagner"?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

@Woodduck: Your avatar's expression says it all.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Tallis - Spem in alium
Bach - Concerto for two violins
Mozart - Piano concerto no. 23 in A
Mahler - Ruckert Lieder
Stravinsky - Les Noces
Ligeti - Clocks and Clouds

Kept it to only half Austro-German, pretty good for me.

Edit to change Mozart selection to a piano concerto, for greater sonic variety.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> @Woodduck: Your avatar's expression says it all.


Your avatar is my favorite poet.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Your avatar is my favorite poet.


"The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
Will remain when there is no heart to break for it."


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Bach - Brandenberg Concertos/Goebel
Bach - Well Tempered Clavier/Tureck & Wilson
Mozart - Great Mass in C minor/Leppard
Beethoven - Hammerklavier Sonata/Pollini
Scriabin - Op. 11 Preludes/Deyanova
Shostakovich - Sym. 10/Kondrashin


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> "The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
> Will remain when there is no heart to break for it."


Yes, that is a very popular point of view. And, oddly enough, is a view only possible from a time quite a bit later than the time referenced in "before eyes."

Also odd is the bold contradiction which gives the whole game away, the "heart-breaking beauty" that still exists when there aren't any hearts any more.

Indeed.

What is this strange desire for things to be utterly separate and distinct from each other, utterly independent? Hmmm, maybe I just answered my own question. But there's another question, then, which is why do we value independence so?

The world of utterly separate and distinct objects is certainly a static one. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's really a desire for stasis, or for the security that stasis seems to promise.

All I know for sure is that "beauty" relies utterly on the presence of both eyes and things; beauty is what happens when eyes and things meet and enter into a relationship. And a relationship is a dynamic thing. Heart-breaking beauty relies utterly on there being a heart to break. No heart, no beauty.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Rock and Hawk: "Fierce consciousness joined with final disinterestedness." The poetic power lies in the attempt to bridge the gap. And such power.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Rock and Hawk: "Fierce consciousness joined with final disinterestedness." The poetic power lies in the attempt to bridge the gap. And such power.


Perhaps not a "beginner's guide" to poetry. It requires a bit of living to attain that. I'm working on it.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

BASIC CLASSICAL MUSIC COLLECTION (Alphabetical order)

Bach: Brandenburg Concerti 
Bach: Goldberg Variations 

Bartok - String Quartets (Complete)

Beethoven: Symphonies (Complete)
Beethoven: String Quartets (Complete) 
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas (Complete)

Brahms: Symphonies (Complete)
Brahms: Piano Quartets

Bruckner: Symphonies 4 - 9

Chopin: Piano Cti. 1 & 2 
Chopin: Solo Piano

Debussy: Orchestral Works 
Debussy: String Quartet
Debussy: Solo Piano

Dvorak: Cello Concerto
Dvorak: Symphonies 5 - 9
Dvorak String Quartet Op. 96 "American"

Elgar: Cello Concerto 
Elgar Violin Concerto
Elgar: Enigma Variations 

Fauré: Requiem
Faure: Piano Quintets

Franck: Symphonie in D minor
Franck: Piano Quintet

Grieg: Piano Concerto
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites 
Grieg: Lyric Pieces

Handel: Concerto Grossi, Op. 6 (Complete)
Handel: Suites for Keyboard

Haydn: Paris Symphonies
Haydn: String Quartets, Op. 76 (Complete)
Haydn: Late Piano Sonatas

Hindemith: Orchestral Works

Holst: The Planets 

Janacek: String Quartets 1 & 2
Janacek: Piano Music

Liszt: Piano Cti. 1 & 2
Liszt: Faust Symphony 
Liszt: Solo Piano

Mahler: Symphonies (Complete)

Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto
Mendelssohn: Symphonies 3 & 4

Mozart Violin Cti. 1 - 5
Mozart: Piano Concerti 19 - 27
Mozart: Symphonies 35 - 41 
Mozart: Figaro, Cosi, Don G, Flute (Highlights)
Mozart: Requiem

Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition

Nielsen: Symphonies (Complete)

Orff: Carmina Burana 

Poulenc: Concerto for Two Pianos 
Poulenc: Solo Piano 

Prokofiev: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Prokofiev: Piano Concertos 1 & 3
Prokofiev: Syms 1 & 5 

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerti 2 & 3
Rachmaninov: Symphony 2
Rachmaninov: Solo Piano

Ravel: Piano Concerti
Ravel: Orchestral Works
Ravel: String Quartet
Ravel: Solo Piano Music 

Resphigi: Roman Trilogy

Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade 

Saint-Saens: Violin Concerto 3
Saint-Saens: Symphony 3

Satie: Piano Works 

Scarlatti D: Keyboard Sonatas 

Schoenberg: Violin Concerto
Schoenberg: Piano Concerto
Schoenberg: Variations for Orchestra, Transfigured Night
Schoenberg: Solo Piano

Schubert: Symphonies 4, "Unfinished", 9
Schubert: Piano Quintet "Trout"
Schubert: Late String Quartets
Schubert: Arpeggione Sonata 
Schubert: Late Piano Sonatas 

Schumann: Piano Concerto 
Schumann: Symphonies (Complete)
Schumann: Solo Piano 

Scriabin: Symphonies (Complete)
Scriabin: Solo Piano

Shostakovich: Symphonies 4 - 11
Shostakovich: String Quartets 3 & 8
Shostakovich: Solo Piano

Sibelius: Symphonies (Complete)

Strauss R: Tone Poems 

Stravinsky: Violin Concerto
Stravinsky: Firebird Suite (1947)
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring

Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto 1
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies (Complete)

Vivaldi: "Four Seasons"


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

It's a beginning....... :lol:


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Yeah, I wouldn't want all eight Shostakovich symphonies before any by Vaughan Williams.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> It's a beginning....... :lol:


With box sets of everything these days, I'm surprised someone can't put a good Basic Collection together for 50 bucks or the equivalent thereof.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

GreenMamba said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't want all eight Shostakovich symphonies before any by Vaughan Williams.


Two Brits per Basic Collection.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Your avatar is my favorite poet.





Strange Magic said:


> "The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
> Will remain when there is no heart to break for it."


Enough with the flirting


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