# Metal - give it a chance!



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

It has come to my attention that some of the heavier metal (i.e. Metallica, Iron Maiden) actually beholds some very fine musical qualities, such as carefully articulated harmonies, heavy syncopation, and masterfully composed and executed chord progressions as well as, to a certain extent, word painting and idiomatic writing.

Case in point - Hallowed be thy Name, Flash of The Blade - Iron Maiden; Master of Puppets, Ride the Lightning - Metallica, to name a few... 

Your thoughts, anyone?


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I never really thought of Metallica and Maiden as being particularly heavy, but whatever.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Heavy metal music is utter, utter crap. :tiphat:


----------



## Jord (Aug 13, 2012)

I love metal, and a lot of metal has too a certain extent decent musical qualities, if you don't agree check out these, especially Nightwish! 

Avenged Sevenfold - Burn it Down
Dream Theater - Finally Free
Annihilator - Alison Hell
Dream Theater - Constant Motion (Insane time signature changes, intro 1st bar 3/4 2nd bar 5/8 3rd bar 3/4 4th bar 15/16 i think)
Lost Horizon - Any songs
Nightwish - Storytime
Trivium
White Skull - Tales from the North


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, maybe it's not utter crap, but pieces like Siegfried's funeral music sound heavier than any metal. So, CM beats metal even on its own field.


----------



## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

Doubtless, metal has its merits, for those for whom it has merit. Or, as my older bro used to say, "If you like this sort of thing, then it's the sort of thing you'll like" (and he guested on a metal band recording a while back - Bitches Sin anyone?)

Whatever. It doesn't do it for me, but that doesn't mean that I expect those who like it to feel obliged to justify themselves. Go for it!


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

It is great, great music.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> It is great, great music.


Yes it is, too bad that when you say the word metal music some people start instantly to think something like this.





Also this reminds me that i need my monthly dose of heavy music.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

lol That song isn't too bad actually.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> lol That song isn't too bad actually.


Yes i agree, but i definitely understand why some people hate it.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

True. People are so quick to judge music. Heavy Metal is one of the most versatile genres. It goes from Early Metallica to Cannibal Corpse. I say why have limits? Enjoy this music full of adrenaline. But even the so called metal haters I bet can find some they like in this genre.


----------



## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Jord said:


> I love metal, and a lot of metal has too a certain extent decent musical qualities, if you don't agree check out these, especially Nightwish!
> 
> Avenged Sevenfold - Burn it Down
> *Dream Theater - Finally Free*
> ...


I LOVE the song Finally Free. That whole album actually. DT is one of my favorite bands.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Dream Theater is awesome. Images and Words is a classic cd.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

One of my all time favourite albums.


----------



## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Twice, recently, I have heard two different songs in the background that have caught my attention and both have been by The Contortionist. I don't know the names and I haven't heard more but I'll probably look out for them some more.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc. have been championed enough. Anyone willing to give them a chance has already given them a chance.

I'll make an exception and say Black Sabbath are (despite their fame) undervalued, and I doubt a lot of the people who praise or put down the group actually listened to them much. Seriously, their first handful of LPs are entire worlds unto themselves. Sometimes I get thinking traditional metal went way downhill once it started losing the blues and oldschool hard rock influences in favor of pompy arena operatic stuff.

Harpsichord, the curmudgeonly old man schtick is only charming when it's directed at things kids actually like these days.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc. have been championed enough. Anyone willing to give them a chance has already given them a chance.
> 
> I'll make an exception and say Black Sabbath are (despite their fame) undervalued, and I doubt a lot of the people who praise or put down the group actually listened to them much. Seriously, their first handful of LPs are entire worlds unto themselves. Sometimes I get thinking traditional metal went way downhill once it started losing the blues and oldschool hard rock influences in favor of pompy arena operatic stuff.
> 
> Harpsichord, the curmudgeonly old man schtick is only charming when it's directed at things kids actually like these days.


Eh I like Metal more developed. Progressive Metal and Thrash Metal are probably my 2 favorite subgenres of Metal.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Eh I like Metal more developed. Progressive Metal and Thrash Metal are probably my 2 favorite subgenres of Metal.


The problem with progressive metal bands is that even more than prog rock, they tend to see technicality as an end in itself rather than a means to an emotional end.

Lots of good thrash out there, though.


----------



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Therion , cheesy, but that's the point.





Affector, team up progressive band


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Heavy metal is awesome :3


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Heavy metal is awesome :3


Yes!


----------



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

I DID NOT POST THIS THREAD! Please see my latest thread in the "General Discussion" section right away!

:tiphat:


----------



## SpanishFly (Oct 13, 2012)

HAHAHAHA This is too funny. It was originally me who posted this thread on CarterJohnsonPiano's account. I liked the forum so much I made myself an account.


----------



## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I was sent here by CarterJohnsonPiano. He says that Heavy Metal music is da bomb.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

SpanishFly said:


> HAHAHAHA This is too funny. It was originally me who posted this thread on CarterJohnsonPiano's account. I liked the forum so much I made myself an account.


Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

I swear man, if you're going to try and prove that metal music has merit to a bunch of classicalheads you can't give them clips of Metallica and expect them to applaud it's compositional or technical prowess. You have to give examples of what metal is doing in the art world these days.






... oh wait... but is this metal? Or is it Jazz? No it must be experimental... but are they experimenting or is this all prepared? Who knows? Does it matter? Where is the line? There is none, so one genre really can't be superior or inferior since genre doesn't exist. Oh yeah...


----------



## SpanishFly (Oct 13, 2012)

Really, the age or current relevancy of a specific piece of art has nothing to do with it's ability to prove it's point. If you don't believe me, then answer me why, 450 years later, musical analysts still pore themselves over Bach's work, and sit back in awe of Bach's highly advanced mind.

Metallica is a fine example of finely tuned elements of the classical world thanks to Kirk Hammett's formal training. For those of you who believe "Metallica and Iron Maiden have been championed enough," why do you think they are being "championed," exactly? It is because they are some of the most clear examples of musical structure and complexity in the history of music, especially metal.


----------



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

From what I understand Kirk Hammet didn't actually have a formal classical training. His style was very much influenced by blues. The structure of the songs actually come from James Hetfield. Of course if you know better than I do then please correct me... I'm just regurgitating what I've been told. 

I don't see Metallica as being a good example of how metal compares to classical music. I think that attempting to compare and contrast the two "genres"(lol) is pretty useless simply because they are either two completely different styles OR they are both intertwined within the fabric which makes up all music and therefore will of course have similarities since they are in essence the same thing.


----------



## Jord (Aug 13, 2012)

All Kirk Hammett does is play the same pentatonic licks over and over again for 30 years, occasionally incorporating natural minor and Dorian, and has somehow gotten credit for it, i don't know how and i doubt i ever will


----------



## Guest (Oct 14, 2012)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> ... oh wait... but is this metal? Or is it Jazz? No it must be experimental... but are they experimenting or is this all prepared? Who knows? Does it matter? Where is the line? There is none, so one genre really can't be superior or inferior since genre doesn't exist. Oh yeah...


I can't answer any of your questions...I just know that this is a racket to my ears...if it's euphonious to yours (or anyone else's) that's fine by me...

(and what's with the wig and shades...that's enough to put me off, before he even gets to work on his axe.)


----------



## SpanishFly (Oct 13, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> True. People are so quick to judge music. Heavy Metal is one of the most versatile genres. It goes from Early Metallica to Cannibal Corpse. I say why have limits? Enjoy this music full of adrenaline. But even the so called metal haters I bet can find some they like in this genre.


And this is why I originally posted in the context that I did  Metal is as versatile and widely varied as classical music. I'm not saying we have to love it but rather, we should give it more of an opportunity than we do. The reason 'haters' can find an element that they appreciate is because a great deal of metal music is based on classical thematic elements. Look at some of the greatest players out there - Randy Rhoads, Yngwie Malmsteen, Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai - all of them have some sort of background in classical music, which is a very good reason why they have composed some of the most inventive and enduring metal music out there, and why, to this day, it remains very much alive.



Iforgotmypassword said:


> I don't see Metallica as being a good example of how metal compares to classical music. I think that attempting to compare and contrast the two "genres"(lol) is pretty useless simply because they are either two completely different styles OR they are both intertwined within the fabric which makes up all music and therefore will of course have similarities since they are in essence the same thing.


Hmmm....look at the intros to Fight Fire with Fire, Battery, Fade To Black, One, Nothing Else Matters, To Live is To Die...tell me how Metallica is not, in some way or another, influenced by the ideas of classical music. No, they are not taken right out of the book, but rather, they are used within context to purposefully demonstrate the band's appreciation and influence of classical works in general.

Attempting to compare two different genres (yes, there is such a thing) is something that is important for we classical musicians to do. It is how we can better educate ourselves, analyze, and widen our view of what music is all about. This is no different than the aims of a music history course - which compares and contrasts different genres of music for the above-stated purposes - except that I was using a much more modern-day example of a music form with a more general form (classical).

You are correct, however: Hetfield is rhythm guitar for purposes of structure; Hammett usually adds the bands' variety with solos and snippets of scale runs, passages, and arpeggios. Also you are correct: he was not formally trained on guitar, but he does have some degree of music...I can't remember what or where from, but he knows his stuff, needless to say.


----------



## SpanishFly (Oct 13, 2012)

Also, if we need evidence of how a form of classical music has integrated itself into a metal artist, then why must we look further than my namesake?


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> [youtube video]


If you have any stuck-up classical friends that ask what's playing when they hear Merzbow/something from Boredoms' noise period/Throbbing Gristle/something like that, tell them it's some obscure modern classical composer watch them believe you. The line between "high" and "low" art is grey hair.


----------



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Galneyrus Angel of Salvation


----------



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> If you have any stuck-up classical friends that ask what's playing when they hear Merzbow/something from Boredoms' noise period/Throbbing Gristle/something like that, tell them it's some obscure modern classical composer watch them believe you. The line between "high" and "low" art is grey hair.


The difference these days is a diploma.


----------



## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Yeah,it's surprising when many dis metal and such. 

Metal has some of the most talented guitarists,like the late Dimebag Darrell, Synyster Gates of AX7,and guitarists like Akira Takasaki.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Metalkitsune said:


> Yeah,it's surprising when many dis metal and such.
> 
> Metal has some of the most talented guitarists,like the late Dimebag Darrell, Synyster Gates of AX7,and guitarists like Akira Takasaki.


Sorry i can't agree with your best guitarist list at all.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Here's a better list of best guitarists. Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, Eric Johnson, Vinnie Moore, Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, and Tony MacAlpine.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Here's a better list of best guitarists. Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, Eric Johnson, Vinnite Moore, Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, and Tony MacAlpine.


That's a list! \m/ (o.o) \m/


----------



## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

SpanishFly said:


> Hmmm....look at the intros to Fight Fire with Fire, Battery, Fade To Black, One, Nothing Else Matters, To Live is To Die...tell me how Metallica is not, in some way or another, influenced by the ideas of classical music. No, they are not taken right out of the book, but rather, they are used within context to purposefully demonstrate the band's appreciation and influence of classical works in general.
> 
> Attempting to compare two different genres (yes, there is such a thing) is something that is important for we classical musicians to do. It is how we can better educate ourselves, analyze, and widen our view of what music is all about. This is no different than the aims of a music history course - which compares and contrasts different genres of music for the above-stated purposes - except that I was using a much more modern-day example of a music form with a more general form (classical).
> 
> You are correct, however: Hetfield is rhythm guitar for purposes of structure; Hammett usually adds the bands' variety with solos and snippets of scale runs, passages, and arpeggios. Also you are correct: he was not formally trained on guitar, but he does have some degree of music...I can't remember what or where from, but he knows his stuff, needless to say.


Trust me, I have listened to my fair share of metal and still do. However while many metal bands from the 80s did mimic "classical" passages and even sometimes steal themes directly from classical pieces it does not in any way make it comparable to the music which they sometimes pay tribute to. The metal bands that get closest to "high art" are the ones which sound the very least like classical music because they are no longer attempting to be "as good as" or "like" what people consider to be classical music and have simply adopted the ideology of high art instead, allowing it to influence their music.

I think that posting symphonic metal or bands that use arpeggios in their music to sound like it's super technical or anything like that is actually counterproductive if you are attempting to prove the genre's comparability to what one could call more accurately "art music".

P.S. Genre is an illusion.


----------



## lukecubed (Nov 27, 2011)

Jord said:


> All Kirk Hammett does is play the same pentatonic licks over and over again for 30 years, occasionally incorporating natural minor and Dorian, and has somehow gotten credit for it, i don't know how and i doubt i ever will


Agreed 100%. So overrated. He has nothing on Mustaine at all. And I enjoy Metallica well enough.

That Behemoth song posted earlier is my favorite Behemoth track! What an atmosphere. Epitomizes everything good about them.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> Trust me, I have listened to my fair share of metal and still do. However while many metal bands from the 80s did mimic "classical" passages and even sometimes steal themes directly from classical pieces it does not in any way make it comparable to the music which they sometimes pay tribute to. The metal bands that get closest to "high art" are the ones which sound the very least like classical music because they are no longer attempting to be "as good as" or "like" what people consider to be classical music and have simply adopted the ideology of high art instead, allowing it to influence their music.
> 
> I think that posting symphonic metal or bands that use arpeggios in their music to sound like it's super technical or anything like that is actually counterproductive if you are attempting to prove the genre's comparability to what one could call more accurately "art music".
> 
> P.S. Genre is an illusion.


I say it all the time but I'll say it again, classical lovers need to hear some early death & black metal. The Metallicas and Megadeths and Judas Priests have their value (really!) but they are 100% descendents of rock music. The first thing bands like Demilich threw out the window was verse/chorus structure and "cool" guitar heroics.


----------



## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

And still no one has posted the most significant metal/classical crossover of recent years. All the popular appeal of Alban Berg, all the inventiveness of Metallica!






Well only tangentially classical I guess.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

How can anyone hate this?


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

used to like all sorts of metal. now i just find it boring... unless its very experimental. some of the work from Xasthur can be interesting


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

jani said:


> How can anyone hate this?


You really wanna know? It sounds plastic.  That modern metal sound makes me feel like I'm drinking coffee with way too much cream and sugar, so much that it loses the coffee flavor and starts to taste vaguely vomitous.

Proto-metal needs more love.


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

^well said


----------



## mud (May 17, 2012)

Methinks metal would play better as chamber music than vocal. Prong's latest album for example is smashing on the instrumentals but the lyrics are taking as much away. Metal bands should really put out double albums, including one without words. They might get more listeners who appreciate music (not that they even pretend to care about it).


----------



## Faville (Sep 15, 2012)

Metallica and Iron Maiden are nowhere near the "heavier" metal, but I thought they were pretty darn heavy when I was first tasting Metal after growing up with a life of Classical music. Iron Maiden was a huge step in the Wrong Direction according to my parents, and once I absorbed their sound and style I moved on to Ozzy and Metallica. Early Metallica is pretty wicked and was the next Heaviest Fastest Darkest Thing Evar for me in high school.

I listen to as much Metal as any other genre. Classical will always be my first love but I'm so glad I was able to open up to other sounds. Classical music geeks who sneer at metal are just as bad as Metal nerds who don't have the attention span for Classical. I don't get Mozart though. He kinda sux. I mean all he does is write scales up and down, sometimes in thirds, and people just go nuts over it.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Are you into neo-classical metal by chance?


----------



## mud (May 17, 2012)

I was just listening to some metal karaoke, where people had removed the vocal track. Most of the instrumentals sounded pretty simplistic or goofy, and more like jazz than classical (so maybe I was wrong about it being better chamber music). I think this sets classical apart, where its instrumentals both stand alone or enhance vocals. While the vocals in metal are intentionally bad (abrasive, obnoxious, vulgar, or menacing). Who needs that much melodrama? Not me. I don't think metal can get away from that paradigm without becoming something else.


----------



## Faville (Sep 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Are you into neo-classical metal by chance?


When I was in college my music buddies and I were huge into the neo-classical metal stuff. It's a good gateway "drug."


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah Neo-Classical Metal got me into Classical Music. Yngwie's obsession with Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, and Paganini got me interested.


----------



## BaroqueOnly (Feb 25, 2013)

I think I will have to pass on giving it a chance, simply because I have a strong dislike for the backbeat (especially the backbeat) and syncopation.

So I will just stick to the Baroque period.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Metal with Vegemite anyone?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I've given it a chance, repeatedly, and it still comes off in my ears as more 'clever,' i.e. musicians grabbing a synthetic scale, other technical devices, and 'making pieces with them.' IF one can use technical devices as a secondary matter of fact means to an end, then I don't first hear "Piece made up using technical premises."

Unfortunately, of a fair variety of what I have heard so far, it has all sounded just that, i.e. technical premises at the fore, not technical premises fluidly learned and absorbed and then more matter-of-fact used 'intuitively' as may be needed or appropriate. [The perception / criterion holds for any and all music, classical as well.] So it is 'student plays with technical device for the sake of the technical device' that I hear... so far.

Even more prime with me is any more than a moment or two of electric guitar with distortion, regardless of the volume level, just turns me off completely. It is nearly the same turn-off as the screech of fingernails scraping a blackboard: I have had that reaction to this particular timbre, and the genre since my earliest of youth and in my teens, when supposedly I might have gone more with the collective ethos and taste of my peers -- ergo a very major barrier to my caring to listen to even the best of anything in any genre using that instrument in that way.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Are you into neo-classical metal by chance?


Dude, THIS is 'neoclassical.'


----------



## Nervensis (Feb 2, 2013)

I've always been more into metal with keyboards and such though lately I've started to get into the more Prog. and 'avant-garde' side.





A thing I enjoy about Sverd's keyboard work is he doesn't do that whole over-the-top technical stuff for the sake of it like most bands where the keyboardist is the main songwriter.


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)




----------



## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

I usually only enjoy symphonic metal. Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation, Avantasia, Pythia, Xandria, Amberian Dawn, Tarja Turunen, Leaves' Eyes etc.

I LOVE this genre.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

OboeKnight said:


> I usually only enjoy symphonic metal. Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation, Avantasia, Pythia, Xandria, Amberian Dawn, Tarja Turunen, Leaves' Eyes etc.
> 
> I LOVE this genre.
> 
> *BUT I AM ALSO A PASSIONATE FAN OF BLACKENED DEATH METAL!!!*


Yeah, i also love that song!


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Great bow upon DOOM


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Psychedelic doom metal!


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Flamme said:


> Great bow upon DOOM


reminds me of olde St. Vitus (sans bow):


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

"Metal" music has its roots in hard rock. Hard rock has its roots in blues. Therefore, metal shares certain characteristics of all "hard" rock.

1. The use of the "blues box" lead guitar patterns. This is the pentatonic scale of blues.
2. Root movement which outlines pentatonic scale patterns.
3. Rock is not 'harmonic' music as much as it is 'melodic' and modal, eschewing the use of full major/minor chords in favor of "root/fifth" root movements, which sound better under distortion-producing amplifiers.
4. "Metal" can be distinguished from "hard" rock in its use of heavier, higher-gain distortion guitar sounds, use of noise gates, more complex rhythms, and different vocal stylings.


----------



## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

One of my favorite bands. Amazing musicianship.


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Yes POS were really god on first couple of albums but today they are so soft its unbelievable...
As far as i think of DOOM i wasnt a great fan of ''My dying bride'' i love few songs but not all these new bands ive discovered recently and im like a kid in a candy shop i dont know which flavor to take first...Yes Deggial Saint Vitus is one of the bands that made a great impact on this scene but there are also few bands with female vocals like


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

I love how this flows mellow yet strong...This song goes under your skin...


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

That was pretty cool. Psychedelic and doomy like my post above but at the same time it couldn't sound any more different.


----------



## drosales (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't think bands like Metallica, Avenged Sevenfold, Trivium or even Iron Maiden can impress or surprise Classical musicians in any way. Let me try something a little more... 'unconventional', something that actually survives repeated listens in which several layers are revealed. One thing that I do think classical musicians fail to appreciate in many metal bands is the "literature" side to it, the dephth in lyrical content in some of the popular music out there. I think that a lot of the lyrical text in classical music is actually from boring to naive or silly. The Night of the Figaro's text is not particularly exemplary, for example.

Gorguts - Obscura 




Zealotry - The Charnel Expanse 




Summoning - Khazad Dum, from the Dol Goldur album


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

The lyrical content!?? If I could actually hear what they were singing then maybe I'd pay attention to it... LOL  No really, why always the screaming and grunting? WHY? It's ugly and nobody can hear a word of it.

If you ask me this genre is a caricature of itself, for the most part.... and the little stuff I've heard that tries to be somewhat different and original is still uninteresting.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

DeepR said:


> The lyrical content!?? If I could actually hear what they were singing then maybe I'd pay attention to it... LOL  No really, why always the screaming and grunting? WHY? It's ugly and nobody can hear a word of it.
> 
> If you ask me this genre is a caricature of itself, for the most part.... and the little stuff I've heard that tries to be somewhat different and original is still uninteresting.


Not cool DeepR, just watch this video, after watching tell me, can you repeat the same?
This is some deep serious *****.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DeepR said:


> ...why always the screaming and grunting? WHY?


For the same reason Russian Opera tradition has singers using a crazy wild amount of applied vibrato (by west European standards, often thought of as downright ugly) -- it is considered "Expressive."

Expressive of what is a completely different matter


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

DeepR said:


> The lyrical content!?? If I could actually hear what they were singing then maybe I'd pay attention to it... LOL  No really, why always the screaming and grunting? WHY? It's ugly and nobody can hear a word of it.


It must be said that maybe at first it was an original idea, today it sounds just like a total clichè. Even someone above suspicion as Jeff Hanneman thought that that kind of growl is ridiculous.


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2013)

drosales said:


> I don't think bands like Metallica, Avenged Sevenfold, Trivium or even Iron Maiden can impress or surprise Classical musicians in any way. Let me try something a little more... 'unconventional', something that actually survives repeated listens in which several layers are revealed. One thing that I do think classical musicians fail to appreciate in many metal bands is the "literature" side to it, the dephth in lyrical content in some of the popular music out there. I think that a lot of the lyrical text in classical music is actually from boring to naive or silly. The Night of the Figaro's text is not particularly exemplary, for example.
> 
> Gorguts - Obscura


Are you aware of their new recording? It comes out in August:






Sounds very promising!


----------



## Guest (Jun 30, 2013)

Best metal records so far from 2013: 
Birth A.D. - I Blame You
Fanisk - Insularum
Imprecation - Satanae Tenebris Infinita
Sacriphyx - The Western Front
Summoning - Old Mornings Dawn

You're welcome


----------



## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)




----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't know how any one can hate this, it has everything, melody,speed and great rhythym parts, okay maybe the lyrics can be cheesy for some but still.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Angela Gossow must be one of the most charismatic female frontmen of all time, or should i say a frontwoman.


----------



## korenbloem (Nov 5, 2012)

mabey classical lovers will enjoy this work:






http://thrilljockey.com/thrill/Wreckmeister-Harmonies/You-ve-Always-Meant-So-Much-to-Me#.UdBBBSPlNDA


----------



## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

jani said:


> Angela Gossow must be one of the most charismatic female frontmen of all time, or should i say a frontwoman.


All Arch Enemy CDs are great even before Angela, but also these are two of the very best ever live concert DVDs!


----------



## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

I was a big fan of metal for almost 15 years, but after starting to listen classical my interest almost ceased. Anyway, the only band that I still listen sometimes is Ne Obliviscaris. I really like their music.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Metal - give it a chance!

I have! I have!

View attachment 20723


----------



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Can't believe this thread is still up and running...meaning that people are still reading the OP *facepalm*


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

jani said:


> I don't know how any one can hate this, it has everything, melody,speed and great rhythym parts, okay maybe the lyrics can be cheesy for some but still.
> 
> [Dragoforce, Through the fire and flames.]


zOMG some seem to be so easily impressed.

"has everything, melody,speed and great rhythm parts..."
Well, okay, so musically it is as fundamental as a toddler, maybe just able to walk. The performance of course very slick, polished and theatrical.

This is supposed to be some depth of profundity which is supposed to engage people who are into classical, or compete with classical for its musical sophistication?

Anyway, the 'complexity' of this music, under the cloth of its sound distortion and speed of delivery, is not at all complex, any much more than _Mary had a Liitle Lamb_.

I found it vapid, And I never pay much attention to lyrics when listening to a vocal piece for the first time - whether one has to read them or whether they are clearly sung and enunciated. So maybe if you think the lyric cheesy, I at least overlooked another 'meh' or negative element present, though the "Meh" list on this one is replete enough.


----------



## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

Personally, it always makes my stomach churn slightly when people argue that metal deserves respect as a musical style because of it's complexity. I think the opposite is true, Metal is interesting to me because of the harsh, primitive almost barbaric quality of the music. The more it tries to be grown up and to fit in with all the other children the more it loses it's identity, but the more it realises that the other children think it's kind of ugly and smells a bit funny, and whisper behind it's back about how it's a creepy devil worshiper, and the more it embraces that adolescent alienation, the more it really comes into it's own.






This is what it's all about.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Can't believe this thread is still up and running...meaning that people are still reading the OP *facepalm*
















.............................


----------



## Guest (Jul 7, 2013)

Yardrax said:


> Personally, it always makes my stomach churn slightly when people argue that metal deserves respect as a musical style because of it's complexity. I think the opposite is true, Metal is interesting to me because of the harsh, primitive almost barbaric quality of the music. The more it tries to be grown up and to fit in with all the other children the more it loses it's identity, but the more it realises that the other children think it's kind of ugly and smells a bit funny, and whisper behind it's back about how it's a creepy devil worshiper, and the more it embraces that adolescent alienation, the more it really comes into it's own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Finally someone gets it


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I like melodic metal. If it gets too barbaric, not a fan of that. Early Metallica raised the standard on great metal imo. Master of Puppets ftw.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> I like melodic metal. If it gets too barbaric, not a fan of that. Early Metallica raised the standard on great metal imo. Master of Puppets ftw.


Yeah, Master of puppets the album&the song are one of the most important pieces of art in Metal music and my favorite ones!
But John you should also not forget the great Black album, that album has loads of master pieces like Sad but true, Where ever i may roam, Enter sandman and also a song which is very hardcore "The god that failed", also you shouldn't forget one of the greatest ballads on metal history.


----------



## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Metal does nothing for me. I liked Metallica when I was a teenager (mostly Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, and And Justice for All), but I just can't listen to it anymore. I had a co-worker with whom I would talk about music who was seriously into metal music, and he would give me lots of burned CD's to listen to, but I just couldn't get interested.

I put metal in the same category as country and hip-hop: I must be at right angles to these kinds of music; they pass right through me.


----------



## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I like melodic metal. If it gets too barbaric, not a fan of that. Early Metallica raised the standard on great metal imo. Master of Puppets ftw.


I like both brands, but there's some real garbage in both fields. From the extreme end, I love Sacramentum or Necrophobic but wouldn't be caught dead listening to Arch Enemy or Amon Amarth. As far as barbaric music goes, Sarcofago and Blasphemy have their value, but it gets a little too messy with Von or Black Witchery.


----------



## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

My favorite metal albums of all time would be something like: 

Slayer - Hell Awaits
Skepticism - Stormcrowfleet
Judas Priest - Sad Wings Of Destiny
Incantation - Onward To Golgotha
Morbid Angel - Altars Of Madness
Immortal - Pure Holocaust
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Therion - Beyond Sanctorum
Mercyful Fate - Don't Break The Oath
Fates Warning - Awaken The Guardian

One of the first two Metallica albums has to find their way in there somewhere too...


----------



## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

arcaneholocaust, you have exceptional taste, at least compared to some others on this thread. Though to be honest I tend to think that Mayhem album gets too much attention but the mentioned Mercyful Fate and Fates Warning albums are certified classics in my book (Along with Don't Break the Oath and the Mercyful Fate EP (Liiiiiiiissssssssteeeeeennnnnnnn! I'm a corpse! I'm a corpse! I'm a corpse without a soul!) and Fates' The Spectre Within). Some personal favourites of my own:

Jag Panzer - Ample Destruction
Brocas Helm - Brocas Helm
Cauldron Born - Born of the Cauldron
Crimson Glory - Crimson Glory
Venom - Welcome to Hell
Griffin - Flight of the Griffin
Omen - Battle Cry
Slauter Xstroyes - Free the Beast


----------



## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

Love all of those that I have - don't have the Griffin or Slauter Xstroyes album. Well, ok, I don't "love" the Cauldron Born album...it's a bit long-winded for me, though "Crusader" is a classic track. The rest are gold - I just don't listen to heavy/power metal much any more.

And I've heard it said that "if you don't like Venom, you just don't like fun..." - I'm inclined to agree 

Edit: I see I glossed over your subconscious creation of a Brocas Helm self-titled. I hope you're referring to Black Death?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Is the near entire fan-base for metal almost exclusively male, tween to late teens?

I'm getting a feeling this could be the male _"pop music I liked as a tween-teen"_ thread.


----------



## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Love all of those that I have - don't have the Griffin or Slauter Xstroyes album. Well, ok, I don't "love" the Cauldron Born album...it's a bit long-winded for me, though "Crusader" is a classic track. The rest are gold - I just don't listen to heavy/power metal much any more.


Hmm, 'Crusader' is a good track, my favourite off that album was 'The Final Incantation...' though. If you listen to their second album it's a bit more stripped down, although the vocals are IMO not as good and neither is the guitar tone.



> I see I glossed over your subconscious creation of a Brocas Helm self-titled. I hope you're referring to Black Death?


I was actually thinking of 'Into Battle' when I made that slip. All three Brocas Helm efforts are worthy of a mention though.



PetrB said:


> Is the near entire fan-base for metal almost exclusively male, tween to late teens?


Yeah, by and large it seems to be something people need to get into in adolescence, and mostly male too.


----------



## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

I definitely got into it as an adolescent but most metal fans don't just stop appreciating it post-20...


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I'm on and off about metal. I like some of it, but the high speed thrasher stuff gets old really fast. I prefer bands that mix it up more between harsher and softer sections and have more rhythmic phrasing in there besides just babbabababababababababababababababababababababababbabababababa.

This is a pretty good example of more the metal stuff I lean towards. It has more variety.





Also, I've never found much metal to be particularly melodic. A lot of people who say that metal is really melodic, well, even when they point to examples I can't really hear it, sorry


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Is the near entire fan-base for metal almost exclusively male, tween to late teens?
> 
> I'm getting a feeling this could be the male _"pop music I liked as a tween-teen"_ thread.


http://www.deathmetal.org/forum/index.php/topic,17246.0.html

I was curious so I started this thread to investigate.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I am hopelessly hooked on Rammstein. I like their hard, industrial/electronic/symphonic metal sound and their phenomenally catchy sing-along lyrics. There is a copycat band, Eisbrecher, that are quite good, too, but they don't approach the greatness of Rammstein by a long shot.

I still have a nostalgic fondness for the first four Black Sabbath albums that I loved when I was 13.


----------



## jdk (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm mostly into Scandinavian folk/black metal, just love the melodies, vocals, the energy... Particularly Windir.











The majority of the bands that I listen to are Scandinavian, Summoning, Emperor, Einherjer, Moonsorrow, Tyr, Bathory. You either love or hate metal.


----------



## Guest (Jul 20, 2013)

Summoning...Emperor...Bathory...


----------



## Guest (Jul 21, 2013)

I'm going to try to compile something along the lines of the TC Recommended Lists based on a metal forum or two, and probably end up posting/linking it here, if anyone is interested in getting a metal education


----------



## kfking (Mar 31, 2013)

I find myself only listening to folk metal these days. Ensiferum, Korpiklaani, Turisas, Finntroll and the like. Although other than that its just hardstyle and classical.


----------



## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

I highly, highly, recommend Blut Aus Nord.

He recently released a three disc concept album (released individually) titled 777

here are some samples:


----------



## Guest (Aug 17, 2013)

I think Blut Aus Nord's best albums are TWWTG and the Memoria Vetusta series, but yeah, they're cool.


----------



## HeartofGold (Aug 23, 2013)

I listen to metal a bit, and I think that some songs from the metal genre (and others) have been influenced by classical music in ways.


----------



## Mujician (Sep 14, 2008)

I think the problem with metal is that it has so many sub categories. As has been mentioned Metallica is metal, but that band is a completely different genre to slipknot, which is also metal. I play in a ska band and quite recently we have done loads of gigs with screaming/thrash metal bands which is what gives 'metal' bands a bad press in my opinion. Obviously some people do like that kind of music. I think there are some really great metal bands around. Go check out skindred!!!


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Mujician said:


> I think the problem with metal is that it has so many sub categories. As has been mentioned Metallica is metal, but that band is a completely different genre to slipknot, which is also metal. I play in a ska band and quite recently we have done loads of gigs with screaming/thrash metal bands which is what gives 'metal' bands a bad press in my opinion. Obviously some people do like that kind of music. I think there are some really great metal bands around. Go check out skindred!!!


Yea there is this one great Mmetal band around, its called Metallica.
Have you heard of it?


----------



## HoraeObscura (Dec 4, 2012)

big fan of ufomammut my self


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

They're a very cool band, this is my favourite by them





Anything that mixes doom metal & psychedelia is OK by me.


----------



## HoraeObscura (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm seeing them tomorrow in Belgium 

https://www.facebook.com/events/149292848572481/?fref=ts


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm jealous! Colour Haze are cool too, though I only know them through a few songs on youtube.


----------



## HoraeObscura (Dec 4, 2012)

Not really a fan of them... which is good cause I have to catch the train when they start 

Zolle is a project with band members of ufomammut and morkobot, haven't heard them yet though:
http://supernaturalcat.com/zolle.html


----------



## HoraeObscura (Dec 4, 2012)

Schubussy said:


> I'm jealous! Colour Haze are cool too, though I only know them through a few songs on youtube.


thought you like to know the gig was great! Ufomammut ripped the place apart 

I was also pleasantly surprised by Monomyth (what a superb sound)! If you don't know them yet, check it out

Still doubting to go check out Amenra next month


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Question! 

Why does black metal seem to attract so many racist neo-nazis? I know this doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the music, but it's a curious pattern I noticed.


----------



## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

violadude said:


> Question!
> 
> Why does black metal seem to attract so many racist neo-nazis? I know this doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the music, but it's a curious pattern I noticed.


I'm sure the reasons are complex, but black metal has always embraced nationalistic themes along with the back to pagan roots ones. So couple that with a sense of "extreme" anything and it's fairly easy to arrive at extreme nationalism. I've a feeling there is also something having to do with changing social sensibilities in Scandinavian countries but since I've never lived there I won't push this hunch.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

deggial said:


> I'm sure the reasons are complex, but black metal has always embraced nationalistic themes along with the back to pagan roots ones. So couple that with a sense of "extreme" anything and it's fairly easy to arrive at extreme nationalism. I've a feeling there is also something having to do with changing social sensibilities in Scandinavian countries but since I've never lived there I won't push this hunch.


I hope your hunch is wrong! The world doesn't need any more racist nationalist countries 

Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## Inceptionist (Oct 10, 2013)

violadude said:


> Question!
> 
> Why does black metal seem to attract so many racist neo-nazis? I know this doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the music, but it's a curious pattern I noticed.


They just do it because it's what the people they look up to do. Have you ever wondered why newer black metal bands still record in awful quality? The old black metal bands only did that because it's all they could afford, the newer ones do it because it's what their "idols" did


----------



## pwdemars (Oct 10, 2013)

My problem with metal is that it seems so limited in what it expresses. It always seems to be an expression of anger, passion etc. in the crudest form, i.e. very loud and aggressive. I'm not saying that's such a bad thing, but it just limits what it can do for me. 

Will someone now take my head off?


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Inceptionist said:


> They just do it because it's what the people they look up to do. Have you ever wondered why newer black metal bands still record in awful quality? The old black metal bands only did that because it's all they could afford, the newer ones do it because it's what their "idols" did


That's not fair. The recording quality is to create a certain atmosphere.

And talking of that:



> My problem with metal is that it seems so limited in what it expresses. It always seems to be an expression of anger, passion etc. in the crudest form, i.e. very loud and aggressive. I'm not saying that's such a bad thing, but it just limits what it can do for me.


A lot of black metal avoids this.


----------



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A lot of these bands listed I've never heard of...

I've loved Hard Rock/Heavy Metal for as long as I can remember (which is about 30 years...lol) but admit I don't listen to a lot of newer bands. I don't really get into Black Metal or Thrash.

Thrash growing up for me was Anthrax. Spreading The Disease was one of my favorite albums back in the day.

Black Metal was King Diamond/Merciful Fate and I loved both of those bands, but the new stuff coming out of from places like Finland just doesn't do much for me.

I pretty much listen to all the old stuff I grew up with in the 80's going back to Black Sabbath. There were a few newer bands I liked. I really loved Type O Negative.

I just discovered this band the other day. I really dig this tune. Reminds me of like Fastway mixed with Dio mixed with Quiet Riot.


----------



## dikshithdt (Oct 3, 2013)

Dream Theater is a band worthy of all the classical credit that we give to any other band or musician . Dream Theater - The new self-titled album released this year stands as high as the name suggests . Starting with the "False Awakening Suite" till the "Illumination Theory" , every second is madness . Absolute perfection of progressive music that one could never imagine , Dream Theater are back at it again . With 27 years of staying together as a band , Dream Theater are the best . The title track "The Enemy Inside" was released with Roadrunner Records with a video featuring soldiers post-war trying to fight with the killers within them . As usual , the longest song in the album "Illumination Theory" is an absolute treat to fans . This new album is worth a full 10/10 as per my views . Anyone else listened to the new stuff ?


----------



## Evoken (Oct 13, 2013)

Yardrax said:


> Personally, it always makes my stomach churn slightly when people argue that metal deserves respect as a musical style because of it's complexity. I think the opposite is true, Metal is interesting to me because of the harsh, primitive almost barbaric quality of the music. The more it tries to be grown up and to fit in with all the other children the more it loses it's identity, but the more it realises that the other children think it's kind of ugly and smells a bit funny, and whisper behind it's back about how it's a creepy devil worshiper, and the more it embraces that adolescent alienation, the more it really comes into it's own.


Could not agree more, well said!


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

jani said:


> Yes it is, too bad that when you say the word metal music some people start instantly to think something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Visually speaking...just a typical night out at the Bayreuth Festival


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Yardrax said:


> Personally, it always makes my stomach churn slightly when people argue that metal deserves respect as a musical style because of it's complexity. I think the opposite is true, Metal is interesting to me because of the harsh, primitive almost barbaric quality of the music. The more it tries to be grown up and to fit in with all the other children the more it loses it's identity, but the more it realises that the other children think it's kind of ugly and smells a bit funny, and whisper behind it's back about how it's a creepy devil worshiper, and the more it embraces that adolescent alienation, the more it really comes into it's own.


I will have to disagree.

I completely understand the appeal of metal that is harsh, primitive almost barbaric. But that style is just not my thing.

I love highly complex metal, and wonder why you have such an intense 'stomach churning' reaction to the respect that highly complex genres of metal rightfully deserve? Of course everyone has the right to their opinion, I just don't understand why this is so personal to you?

But then again, we've seen similar reactions before. When bebop, (characterized by complex melodies, fast tempos, changing time signatures and complex chord progressions), started to gain some popularity after Swing, it garnered very similar comments as yours from fans of Swing and Big Band and musicians alike, for much the same reasons as your dislike of complex metal.

Too each his or her own...


----------



## Katie (Dec 13, 2013)

Give it a chance, indeed, but get back to basics.../Katie


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't listen to heavy metal very much, but here's a good one:


----------



## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

I listened to so much metallica and the likes when I was younger that I think I over did the metal experience. I dont listen a whole lot to it anymore, but every now and then I do listen to some of the classics.

Dream Theatre - Panic Attack is an exceptional work in my opinion - the lyrics convey the idea, and the motifs and pacing work, and theres some actual dynamic motion from mp to ff, even if it doesn't happen enough times.

But, seriously, if your going to make a post about metal, you should atleast include Slayer somewhere.






0:33 that right there is a motif for a symphony (U BETTER NOT STEAL THIS IDEA FROM ME UR [email protected])


----------



## Katie (Dec 13, 2013)

Metal 101 (continued): Stay in touch with your roots./K


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Lyrics to War Pigs remind me of Bob Dylan's "Masters of War."


----------



## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Some classic metal


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Early Sabbath and Zep yes.
the rest baaa humbug..............


----------



## Guest (Dec 20, 2013)

Considering Zep isn't metal......


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Uriah Heep was a great band musically. 

There is a difference between metal and heavy metal. Ozzy maybe metal. Zepplin neither. Uriah is more art rock.


----------



## Metalhed (Nov 27, 2013)

In 1985, Ozzy was metal because that was heavy music - today it's probably more classic rock because we have far heavier music...

Note: as a metalhead, you have to love a forum thread that includes a Jag Panzer reference - it does make me feel good to know I am not the only one that listens to them...


----------



## Fried fifer (Dec 14, 2013)

Im really into modern metal. The last few years have been great for metal. So many incredible albums. Ill probably be in this thread a lot. Here is something to start with. Carach Angren makes incredible symphonic black metal. Their Where The Corpses Sink Forever album isn't my favorite but this song and video are particularly good. Check out their Death Came Through A Phantom Ship which is my favorite. Each album is themed to telling a story from a different era. World War soldiers for the former and pirates for the latter. But they do a great job of staying away from the cheese.
Also for audiophile metal reviews check out Metal-fi.com, truly a great site but they cover all of metal so you will have to sort through some to find stuff that fits your taste specifically.


----------



## Exordiom (Nov 27, 2013)

Metalhed said:


> In 1985, Ozzy was metal because that was heavy music - today it's probably more classic rock because we have far heavier music...


Definitely a good observation!


----------



## aberooski (Jan 2, 2014)

Great musicians create great music, whatever style, genre, language, etc.


----------

