# Classical music in movies



## Roman Koval (Aug 3, 2021)

What do you think about using classical music in movies? For me one of the good example is Restaurant Scene from Revolver by Guy Ritchie (Moonlight Sonata- 



). I'm waiting for your opinions.:tiphat:


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Hardly anyone knew Ligeti's music before it appeared in _2001 A Space Odyssey_. That also made a hit of the two Strausses Also Sprach Zarathustra and Blue Danube Waltz. We could use more films like that today.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

How about : Platoon - Adagio for Strings (Samuel Barber).:angel:


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Roman Koval said:


> What do you think about using classical music in movies?


I think it's a great idea. My feeling is, everyone likes classical music; they just don't know it. It seems like popular culture is the easiest gateway. By connecting this music to a plotline or even a scene, it gives a sense of familiarity to something previously unknown.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I watch a lot of older movies. '30s thru '50s. It is astonishing how many of them have classical concerts, conductors, pianists, violinists, cellists, singers as a main character. Composers, too. Some of the movies are cheesy but it demonstrates one thing: classical music used to be a much more important part of life, at least in America. Nowadays it seems that when there's a movie character who loves classical music he turns out to be a psychopathic killer: like Hannibal Lecter. Or classical music is used as the butt of jokes and ridiculed because it's not hip enough. So I'm kind of leery of classical being used. There are very, very few movie directors today with the musical sense of Kubrick, Hitchcock, and others.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Ridley Scott is a good example of a modern day director who often uses classical music. He mainly uses it to 'temp' the edit during production which can be either helpful or a pain in the a*** for the composer commissioned to do the score.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Death in Venice extensively used Mahler's music.

The Dutch movie De IJssalon (The Ice-Cream Parlour, aka Private Resistance) likewise uses Mahler, specifically from the 4th symphony.


----------



## Cristian Lee (Aug 13, 2017)

Terrence Mallick is a big fan of classical music. He used classical music in every movie he made.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> Death in Venice extensively used Mahler's music.


As did Ken Russell's _Mahler_. Go figure.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm always delighted to hear a bit of classical music in a movie, though it's a little annoying when, as mhaub points out, the guy listening to Mozart turns out to be a serial rapist or other social misfit. The association of classical music with outsiders may have begun with Captain Nemo or the phantom of the opera, but however it started it isn't surprising to find it perpetuated in popular culture.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I am not a movie nut but among the most unusual and impressive uses of classical music in a movie I encountered was the historical opera stuff (mostly Otello, I think) in Allen's "Match Point".

A movie where, if I remember correctly a recording of classical music (Beethoven, the 9th and/or Leonore III, the latter very ironic considering the plot) plays a rôle, is "Woman of Straw" with Lollobrigida and Connery.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> I watch a lot of older movies. '30s thru '50s. It is astonishing how many of them have classical concerts, conductors, pianists, violinists, cellists, singers as a main character. Composers, too. Some of the movies are cheesy but it demonstrates one thing: classical music used to be a much more important part of life, at least in America. Nowadays it seems that when there's a movie character who loves classical music he turns out to be a psychopathic killer: like Hannibal Lecter. Or classical music is used as the butt of jokes and ridiculed because it's not hip enough. So I'm kind of leery of classical being used. There are very, very few movie directors today with the musical sense of Kubrick, Hitchcock, and others.


Try Yorgos Lanthimos. He's quite keen on using classical, and mixing it up with other genres.

Soundtrack from _The Favourite_, for example

Or how about _The Lobster_?


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> I watch a lot of older movies. '30s thru '50s. It is astonishing how many of them have classical concerts, conductors, pianists, violinists, cellists, singers as a main character. Composers, too. Some of the movies are cheesy but it demonstrates one thing: classical music used to be a much more important part of life, at least in America. Nowadays it seems that when there's a movie character who loves classical music he turns out to be a psychopathic killer: like Hannibal Lecter. Or classical music is used as the butt of jokes and ridiculed because it's not hip enough. So I'm kind of leery of classical being used. There are very, very few movie directors today with the musical sense of Kubrick, Hitchcock, and others.


You should rejoice that the people have thrown off the yoke of the elitism and fake superiority of classical music and so-called high culture in general and have now come into their own authentic, guaranteed wholesome, grassroots, noncommercial folk culture.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Roman Koval said:


> What do you think about using classical music in movies?


Excellent idea - if it's used well. Being a somewhat sentimental soul, I found the use of Beethoven's Symphony No. 6 in _Soylent Green _and his 7th in _The King's Speech _rather moving.


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Lars von Trier. In his film _Dogville_ there are pieces mostly by Baroque composers. And also Tristan and Isolde's prelude at the beginning of _Melancholia_.


----------



## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

Was going to mention that part of Melancholia, as well. It's really striking.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

A lot of people who don't know opera know Mozart because of this.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> Death in Venice extensively used Mahler's music.


That's how I heard the 5th's Adagietto. Because I loved that music I mistakenly thought I'd enjoy Mahler. Unfortunately, I was wrong. That movement is the only thing by him I like.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Waterloo (1970) did a very good adaptation of the slow movement of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto, for its "emperor theme"


----------



## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Brief Encounter by David Lean famously used the Rach 2nd Concerto, which, if it had been released 30 years later, would have been a needle-drop to "All By Myself".






(as a film critic joked, Lean was a genius to anticipate the use of pop song needle-drops in romantic scenes)


----------



## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Ned Low said:


> Lars von Trier. In his film _Dogville_ there are pieces mostly by Baroque composers. And also Tristan and Isolde's prelude at the beginning of _Melancholia_.


The Wagner was used throughout the movie, overused I thought.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

John Boorman used Wagner in several films (notably Excaliber and Hope and Glory). Babe of course used Saint Saens, with a trickle of Tristan. Walton's scores to Olivier's Shakespeare films have become classics, as have Prokofiev's (Lt. Kije, Alexander Nevsky), Woody Allen also used Prokofiev in Love and Death. Any film that uses Fur Elise as if it were the only classical piano piece ever played, should be destroyed. The Competition used Prokofiev's Third Piano Cto. as the vehicle for Amy Irving to show up Richard Dreyfus.


----------



## PuerAzaelis (Jul 28, 2021)

larold said:


> Hardly anyone knew Ligeti's music before it appeared in _2001 A Space Odyssey_. That also made a hit of the two Strausses Also Sprach Zarathustra and Blue Danube Waltz. We could use more films like that today.


I always thought Kubrick's use of classical music was kind of taking the p*** a little bit. I don't know why.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Classical music in film can be very effective.

The hobbling scene in *Misery*.


----------



## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> I always thought Kubrick's use of classical music was kind of taking the p*** a little bit. I don't know why.


It's pretty good in Barry Lyndon (although the Handel is anachronistic).


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Classical music in film can be very effective.
> 
> The hobbling scene in *Misery*.


The hobbling scene in *Misery*, to the music of the _*Moonlight Sonata*_.

The listening to *"La Mamma Morta"* scene in *Philadelphia*.

And, of course, *Apocalypse Now* and it's use of *The Ride of the Valkyries*.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bach -Goldberg variations in The Silence of the Lambs


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Ravel's Piano Trio is used in _Birdman_.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

mossyembankment said:


> It's pretty good in Barry Lyndon (although the Handel is anachronistic).


The Handel is appropriate. The one that's really anachronistic is the Schubert.


----------



## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

Oh, you're right... I was thinking Napoleonic War...


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Anyone seen 'The Lobster'? Probably the quirkiest film I've ever seen. We were watching it last night and the unsettling mood came not only from the dead pan absurdity, but the use of Shostakovich's 8th 4tet in particular. A look at the IMDb page reveals the extent of classical score. What's interesting is that the music is used as proper non-digetic score and works very well, adapting to emotional and mood setting commentary for the film rather than the stand alone art work it is meant to be.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

mikeh375 said:


> Anyone seen 'The Lobster'? Probably the quirkiest film I've ever seen. We were watching it last night and the unsettling mood came not only from the dead pan absurdity, but the use of Shostakovich's 8th 4tet in particular. A look at the IMDb page reveals the extent of classical score. What's interesting is that the music is used as proper non-digetic score and works very well, adapting to commentary for the film rather than a stand alone art work.


Yes, see my post on p.1.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Forster said:


> Yes, see my post on p.1.


aaahh, sorry Forster, I missed that I was too skimpy on the skimming. What an odd film eh?


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Shutter Island does it very well, including works by Penderecki, Marshall, Ligeti, Cage, Scelsi and Mahler.


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

I forgot to mention the use of Bruckner's 9th ( the begining of the scherzo) in Bergman's Saraband.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

mikeh375 said:


> aaahh, sorry Forster, I missed that I was too skimpy on the skimming. What an odd film eh?


Yes, it was, as was _The Favourite_. Next on my list is his _The Killing of a Sacred Deer_ with Schubert, Ligeti and Gubaidulina on the soundtrack!


----------



## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

mossyembankment said:


> It's pretty good in Barry Lyndon (although the Handel is anachronistic).


How is the Handel anachronistic? Much of the novel/movie takes place in the 1750s. The Battle of Kunersdorf, in which Lyndon is a combatant, took place on 12 August 1759, the year in which Handel died. If any of the music is anachronistic it is the Schubert.

Edit: Oops I just saw hammeredklavier's post about this and your response. Sorry! :tiphat:


----------



## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

Early Universal horror films like DRACULA and THE MUMMY utilized Tchaikovsky's _Swan Lake_ as main title music - in the case of DRACULA, it was the only bit of music in the entire film. The main title of Tod Browning's FREAKS (1932) is a bit from Rimsky-Korsakov's _Symphony No. 2, Antar_.

THE BLACK CAT (1934) contains an underscore adapted from classical pieces such as Liszt's _Tasso_, _Les Preludes_ and _Piano Sonata in B Minor_, Tchaikovsky's _Romeo and Juliet_, Beethoven's _Symphony No. 7_ (second movement), Schumann's _Quintet in E Flat Major_, Brahms' _Rhapsody in B Minor_ and Schubert's _Symphony No. 8_.


----------



## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

I think a lot of it is laziness and sometimes I'd call it cultural vandalism (Silence of the Lambs); but sometimes it can work brilliantly, as in (imo) the use of Bach's music in the film version of Slaughterhouse Five:







Bill Cooke said:


> ...THE BLACK CAT (1934) contains an underscore adapted from classical pieces such as Liszt's _Tasso_, _Les Preludes_ and _Piano Sonata in B Minor_, Tchaikovsky's _Romeo and Juliet_, Beethoven's _Symphony No. 7_ (second movement), Schumann's _Quintet in E Flat Major_, Brahms' _Rhapsody in B Minor_ and Schubert's _Symphony No. 8_.


Yep, watching that way back when was the first time I ever heard this:


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Some great examples already mentioned. Some I find memorable are _Being John Malkovich_ (Bartok), _The Hudsucker Proxy_ (Khatchaturian) and _The Third Man_ (Anton Karas).

Its rare when music moves into the foreground of a movie and becomes the basis of an extended sequence. Some examples of that are in _Papillon_ (_Gift from the Sea_ sequence, original movie), _An American in Paris_ (the ballet sequence) and the ballet in *The Red Shoes*:








PuerAzaelis said:


> I always thought Kubrick's use of classical music was kind of taking the p*** a little bit. I don't know why.


I think its possible to interpret his work like that. There are a few examples I can think of in *A Clockwork Orange*, including the use of Rossini in the lake scene. As far as I can remember, this is more or less presented the same way as it was written in the novel.


----------



## Christine (Sep 29, 2020)

"Alien" -- Mozart while captain is in quarters; Bartok while captain is in service ducts; Hanson for closing credits.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Some movies can change our perception of a piece of music. The use of Mantovani's _Charmaine_ in *One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest* is a good example. Just being reminded of Kubrick and* Clockwork Orange* and its use of Beethoven 9 made me think of this. Neither film exactly prejudiced my opinion of these pieces, but whenever I hear them I'm often reminded of certain scenes in these films.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Christine said:


> "Alien" -- Mozart while captain is in quarters; Bartok while captain is in service ducts; Hanson for closing credits.


Chopin and Wagner in the latest 'Alien' movies from Scott too.
Ridley Scott is well known for using the classics in his films as temp(orary) tracks before a composer is engaged. The composer then has to create similar music and emotion in their cues. The influence of Prokofiev and Holst in 'Gladiator' for example, weighed on the mind of Zimmer at some point in the post production.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

mikeh375 said:


> Chopin and Wagner in the latest 'Alien' movies from Scott too.
> Ridley Scott is well known for using the classics in his films as temp(orary) tracks before a composer is engaged. The composer then has to create similar music and emotion in their cues. The influence of Prokofiev and Holst in 'Gladiator' for example, weighed on the mind of Zimmer at some point in the post production.


In some cases, though, it's the editor who has chosen the temp track, not Scott. See the story about _Alien_ and Goldsmith and Rawlings.

Oh, thread duty: diegetic use of "Fingal's Cave" used in _The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp_


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Forster said:


> *In some cases, though, it's the editor who has chosen the temp track, *not Scott. See the story about _Alien_ and Goldsmith and Rawlings.
> 
> Oh, thread duty: diegetic use of "Fingal's Cave" used in _The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp_


yes...that is also absolutely true. I'm sure you know about library companies who commission generic tracks with briefs like, fast paced, romantic, sparse tension etc. These tracks end up on an editors digital shelf in the hope they might get used as a temp. Then there is always the possibility that the director and editor get so use to the music as the months progress in post production that they use it in the final cut....it's happened a lot.

The most famous case of plagiarism of a musical artwork that was used as a temp in recent years was Horner and his rip of Britten's Sanctus from the War Requiem for the film 'Troy'. When I heard that, my jaw dropped, as did the Britten Estate's collective jaw apparently. To be fair, Horner only had a small amount of time with which to write a full score, but the rip was such a blatant shocker it ended up in litigation.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Rachmaninoff: _Piano Concerto No. 2 in C Minor_ - *Brief Encounter*
Mozart: _Piano Concerto No. 21_ (slow movement) - *The Go-Between*
Chopin: _Prelude in E minor_, Op. 28, No. 4 - *Five Easy Pieces*


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

0:45


----------

