# Fidelio Freaks, Come In and Express Your Love of This Opera



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I love this opera!

Beethoven's opera, Fidelio, is so wonderful to me that I just cannot get enough of it. There are many great operas, but there is something about Fidelio that for me transcends all other operas. It has so many wonderful scenes. I love the way it begins in a light-hearded way with the argument between Marzelline and her jilted lover, the whole story line of Lenonore's disguise making complications for her in the infatuation that Marzellene has for Fidelio not knowing Fidelio really is a girl. Love how the simple family life and little problems they have contrast with the dramatic and life threatening imprisonment of Florestan. I also like the happy ending and how nobody gets killed, though in some productions I understand Pizarro gets shot in the end. Love the high drama in the dungeon when Leonore jumps between the knife-weilding Pizarro and Florestan.

This is such a wonderful opera to me that I bought a bunch of DVDs of it and am systematically watching them. I have watched productions conducted by,

Bernstein (Gundula Janowitz as Leonore)
Mehta (Waltraud Meier)
Harnoncourt (Camilla Nylund)
Bohm (Gwyneth Jones)
Levine (Karita Mattila)
Rother (Christa Ludwig)
Ludwig (Anja Silja)

And will soon watch these,

Haitink (Elisabeth Soderstrom)
Lehmann (acted by Claude Nollier, sung by Magda László, spoken by Grete Zimmer)
Mehta (Gundula Janowitz)

So far I have only found one that I really didn't like (Levine, because it is a modernized production and had many things in it that I found goofy).

I also have 10 CD sets including some of the 1805 and 1806 versions, and probably will get more.

Whole Chapter On Fidelio Here (titled Leonora). About 66 pages.

1851 Libretto for Her Majesty's Theater ("The only correct and authorized edition"). This one has Florestan as a last name and his full name is Fernando Florestan (Leonora Florestan is in most librettos as I recall during Florestan's aira), and the minister is merely called The Minister.


" When I look back across my entire life, I find no event to place beside this in the impression it produced on me."
- Wagner on seeing a performance of Fidelio
Quote from this article on Fidelio.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

FIDELIO would be somewhere on my top-ten list of favorite operas. True, the characters are symbols, but what else would you expect from an opera by Beethoven? Actually, I think it's the very "basicness" of the characters and dramatic situations (and Beethoven's music, of course) that gets such a powerful reaction from audiences.

I remember when the Levine/Met production was first shown on TV, in 2000-2001. I stayed up late to watch it, and now I own the DVD. I seem to be one of the only opera fans who likes it.

Edited to add: But I do admit that I would like see a performance of FIDELIO that's actually set in Beethoven's time. Now, _that_ would be a true novelty today. (Both of the productions I've seen, Levine's and a live performance, were modernized.)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> FIDELIO would be somewhere on my top-ten list of favorite operas. True, the characters are symbols, but what else would you expect from an opera by Beethoven? Actually, I think it's the very "basicness" of the characters and dramatic situations (and Beethoven's music, of course) that gets such a powerful reaction from audiences.


Very warmly agree. The characters and their situations - and Beethoven's music - have a purity that cleanses the soul. Beethoven wasn't a subtle psychologist like Mozart, looking at the ambivalence of human nature. He was an idealist who wanted to give form to eternal values: love, faithfulness, cruelty, oppression, courage. And yet he does it without being pompous or preachy. There's no other opera like it, because there's only one Beethoven.


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

Florestan said:


> Mehta (Gundula Janowitz)


How did you find this one? I've heard great things about it, but it doesn't show up in the usual places. It's with Vickers, right? Who else?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

bobleflaneur said:


> How did you find this one? I've heard great things about it, but it doesn't show up in the usual places. It's with Vickers, right? Who else?


Conductor Zubin Mehta - 1977
Orchestra - Israel Philharmonic Orchestra
Chorus - New Philharmonia Chorus

Leonore - Gundula Janowitz
Florestan - Jon Vickers
Pizarro - Theo Adam
Rocco - William Wilderman
Marzelline - Stella Richmond
Jaquino - Misha Raitzin
Fernando - Juan Soumagnas

All I can find is this You Tube video:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is an update on my Fidelio DVD watching:

Watched so far:

Bernstein (Gundula Janowitz as Leonore)
Mehta (Waltraud Meier)
Harnoncourt (Camilla Nylund)
Bohm (Gwyneth Jones)
Levine (Karita Mattila)
Rother (Christa Ludwig)
Ludwig (Anja Silja)
Haitink (Elisabeth Soderstrom)--37 minutes into this one.

Will be watching soon:

Lehmann (acted by Claude Nollier, sung by Magda László, spoken by Grete Zimmer)
Mehta (Gundula Janowitz)--You Tube

So far I have found two that I really don't like:

Levine, because it is a modernized production and had many things in it that I found goofy.

Haitink, because all the singers appear to be amateur actors and not all that good at singing either.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Fantastic opera, even if it sometimes seems more symphonic. Music is just superb. Perhaps nothing in opera excels the act 1 quartet or the prisoners' chorus.


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

A nice piece that gets at the opera's appeal, at least as far as I'm concerned:

http://likelyimpossibilities.blogspot.com/2012/06/fidelio-in-dresden-or-why-do-women-like.html

Excerpt: "Unlike the majority of women in opera who spend their time onstage pining or dying, Leonore does stuff."


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay, I'll admit that I'm not (yet) a fan. I saw it at the Met about 6 years ago and didn't care for it. I don't know if that performance was well-received or not (but the soprano was bad, that I do know).

So, which version would you recommend for me to reinvestigate this? I am a Janowitz fan but alas not a Mehta fan or that would be an easy choice. Thoughts?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Admiral said:


> So, which version would you recommend for me to reinvestigate this? I am a Janowitz fan but alas not a Mehta fan or that would be an easy choice. Thoughts?


You can have Janowitz with Bernstein. These are my favorites. The DVD is a better soundtrack because it is live, where as the CD was done in studio. All the singers on this are GREAT.



















I recommend removing the Leonore III overture from the CD tracks so that when you play it the flow goes as Beethoven wished it to--directly to the finale. I always skip the Leonore III overture in the DVD also and really appreciate other performances on DVD that don't have the overture to disrupt the flow.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Googled for Fidelio T shirts for kicks and this came up:


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

Admiral said:


> Okay, I'll admit that I'm not (yet) a fan. I saw it at the Met about 6 years ago and didn't care for it. I don't know if that performance was well-received or not (but the soprano was bad, that I do know).
> 
> So, which version would you recommend for me to reinvestigate this? I am a Janowitz fan but alas not a Mehta fan or that would be an easy choice. Thoughts?


I can't speak to the Janowitz/Mehta, but someone I trust tells me that this is Mehta at his early best, and that Janowitz is far better than in either the CD or DVD with Bernstein (where she sounds underpowered, and where you have to put up with Kollo besides).

Most of my favorites have some defect, some imperfection in the divine image, most often, alas, in the Leonore. It's tough to find people who can bring the requisite power without sounding ugly. (One longs for a Callas recording...) One of the few who does is the young Vishnevskaya, under Melik-Pashayev, and the rest of the participants are pretty good too. The sound's about what you'd expect, and it's sung in Russian, which probably rules it out as a first choice.

For that, I'd probably turn to Karajan/EMI (not the live DGG, which shows most involved in poor form). He's unusually fiery here (I'm not ordinarily a fan), and the whole cast is strong. It's probably Vickers's best Florestan.

Harnoncourt's is exciting and colorful and has perhaps the best supporting cast on records, but only an adequate Leonore and Florestan. Mackerras has most of the same strengths and weaknesses -- especially frustrating here because the leading pair (Benackova and Rolfe Johnson) would have been just about ideal a decade earlier. Barenboim offers some of the most impressively shaped conducting around and a great cast apart from Meier's Leonore -- and even she has all the right dramatic ideas, but a rather unpleasant vehicle in which to express them. It's marred, however, by the omission of almost all dialogue, which, at least for me, makes it seem like a concert of excerpts, rather than an opera.

I'm a fan of Klemperer and most of his cast, but not of their passionless recording of this opera -- this is the spirit of the French Revolution? Fricsay is better, though you have to put up with that appalling 50s DG habit of using actors who sound nothing like their counterparts for the dialogue. Bohm would be a contender if he had a Leonore who could sing in tune.

Maazel may be the most excitingly conducted, but I don't like his cast. If you're keener on Nilsson than I, you may disagree. Bernstein's conducting is strong, but you have to put up with a mixed cast, including the worst Florestan on records. One recording with a superb Florestan (and Rocco) is Halasz's cheap recording on Naxos. The conducting's pretty tame, which matters a lot here, but most of the cast (save for the dreadful Don Fernando, but who cares?) is pretty good. Knappertsbusch's embalming of the opera is best forgotten, save perhaps for Peerce.

I may be in the minority in finding most of the historical recordings underwhelming, though there are good things in some of them, such as Walter's unusually fiery conducting (and Kipnis's Rocco) and some characteristic insights from Furtwangler.

So I'd say start with Karajan, with Harnoncourt and Mackerras as worthy alternatives and Barenboim as a good second recording once you have one with dialogue.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay, I'm thinking I'll end up with more than one on my next Amazon order.

Thanks


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## Bill H. (Dec 23, 2010)

Definitely agree with the idea that Fidelio, to the extent that was possible at the time, was something of a "feminist" opera, in that Leonore takes charge and does not back down. None of this Wagnerian stuff with the women dropping dead at the end of the drama (Eva excepted). To me, it is something of a twist to the usual sort of female "pants" role in operas--she has to pass as a man as an integral part of the plot, rather than singing as a man because of the voice part writing.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Bill H. said:


> Definitely agree with the idea that Fidelio, to the extent that was possible at the time, was something of a "feminist" opera, in that Leonore takes charge and does not back down. None of this Wagnerian stuff with the women dropping dead at the end of the drama (Eva excepted). .


To die is the greatest honour for an opera character.


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

Yeah, but wouldn't be fun if sometimes -- just sometimes -- you're allowed to do something beyond get honored?


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

In digging around, I notice a DVD with Benackova from 1991, which ought to put her in better voice than for Mackerras. Anyone seen it? The other participants, alas, make me skeptical.

I haven't seen many DVDs, but I rather like the Met's, in which Heppner and Pape are predictably superb. I have the Glyndebourne DVD and really ought to give it a spin...

I haven't heard the recent Abbado CD. Does it have anything strongly in its favor beyond Kaufmann? There are enough good Florestans around that I suspect I don't really need this.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Let me put my two-pennyworth in:

Friscay is a very dramatic recording with a superb Leonora in Rysanek and D F-D a really villainous Pizarro. The cast is good all round if you can put up with the lightweight Florestan of Haeflinger. Of course, Florestan is an emaciated prisoner so a more lightweight sound is certainly permissible and Haeflinger has plenty of character. The sound is too much in favour of the voices and as has been mentioned the actors sound nothing like the singers. Why this was done with a German cast beats me.

The Klemperer studio is a classic though some would say marmoreal with slow tempi. The cast is first rate but Berry is not really menacing as Pizarro. Ludwig and Vickers are superb. Vickers is the greatest ever Florestan on records. He has everything.

Karajan's live effort is cut but is highly dramatic and whether the tenor is Vickers on an off day is disputed. The sound is not that good but a live Karajan recording is not to be missed.

Klemperer's live recording is an improvement on his studio apart from the sound. The cast is generally better with Hotter the greatest Pizarro on disc. Vickers is paired with Jurinac, lighter of voice than Ludwig but just as intense. The sound, however, is that of a radio recording and is not that good. Klemperer is more dramatic live. Why on earth Legge just didn't bring the live cast into the studio is a question we have to ponder.

Karajan in the studio is generally a superb performance with Vickers paired with Denersch. Of course it was fashionable at the time of release to compare it unfavourably with Klemperer but to my mind it is more dramatic, the orchestral playing is superb and has to be heard for the canon quartet. To me this is the best all round Fidelio.

The Halasz was very favourably reviewed but I found it disappointing. It certainly isn't bad - in fact it's a good performance all round but just nothing special like certain critics with cloth ears were making out. 

The Abaddo is problematic as some genius has rewritten the dialogue which basically ruins the sense. The performance is good all round with a superb Florestan in Kaufmann. Bu5t he is the only reason it comes off my shelf.

On DVD I have great affection for the Peter Hall Glyndebourne production conducted by Haitink with Soderstrom a superb Leonore. But that's maybe because I saw it on stage. But it's really good if rather elderly in terms of DVD. One to be avoided is the Met production with Ben Heppner as Florestan. The voice is superb but to try and imagine him as a starving prisoner is somewhat ridiculous. It looks as if he has had a well stocked kitchen not bread and water!


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## bobleflaneur (Aug 31, 2015)

Excellent comments, and I'm glad, DavidA, that we agree on a first choice. I'm used to people being surprised when I vote for Karajan's.



DavidA said:


> Let me put my two-pennyworth in:
> 
> Friscay is a very dramatic recording with a superb Leonora in Rysanek and D F-D a really villainous Pizarro. The cast is good all round if you can put up with the lightweight Florestan of Haeflinger. Of course, Florestan is an emaciated prisoner so a more lightweight sound is certainly permissible and Haeflinger has plenty of character. The sound is too much in favour of the voices and as has been mentioned the actors sound nothing like the singers. Why this was done with a German cast beats me.


Cheaper, I suppose, to employ professional-but-not-famous radio actors who can do it fine on the first try than to pay famous singers to go through six takes until they manage something adequate. But I agree that's not a good enough reason. And yes to the recessed orchestra, which is a shame, given how well Fricsay conducts it.



> The Klemperer studio is a classic though some would say marmoreal with slow tempi. The cast is first rate but Berry is not really menacing as Pizarro. Ludwig and Vickers are superb. Vickers is the greatest ever Florestan on records. He has everything.


Marmoreal is right. It's not just the slowness -- at his best, Klemperer could make slow Beethoven sound like a battering ram. In this recording, though, the music just sits there. Yes, of course, to Vickers, but he can be found in equally good form and better surroundings with Karajan.

I should give the live Klemperer another listen (and perhaps the live Karajan too). I was disappointed last time I tried it, but perhaps I was just hoping too much for a complete antidote to the studio snoozefest.



> The Halasz was very favourably reviewed but I found it disappointing. It certainly isn't bad - in fact it's a good performance all round but just nothing special like certain critics with cloth ears were making out.


I blame the pretty pedestrian conducting. And while the Leonore isn't bad, I don't really get the fuss that some people have made about her.



> The Abaddo is problematic as some genius has rewritten the dialogue which basically ruins the sense. The performance is good all round with a superb Florestan in Kaufmann. Bu5t he is the only reason it comes off my shelf.


Thanks -- it's good to have an excuse not to add when I need to be subtracting. (New baby and all.)



> On DVD I have great affection for the Peter Hall Glyndebourne production conducted by Haitink with Soderstrom a superb Leonore. But that's maybe because I saw it on stage. But it's really good if rather elderly in terms of DVD. One to be avoided is the Met production with Ben Heppner as Florestan. The voice is superb but to try and imagine him as a starving prisoner is somewhat ridiculous. It looks as if he has had a well stocked kitchen not bread and water!


[Laughs.] Well, willing suspension and all that...

I really must watch that Glyndebourne DVD.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DavidA said:


> On DVD I have great affection for the Peter Hall Glyndebourne production conducted by Haitink with Soderstrom a superb Leonore. But that's maybe because I saw it on stage. But it's really good if rather elderly in terms of DVD. One to be avoided is the Met production with Ben Heppner as Florestan. The voice is superb but to try and imagine him as a starving prisoner is somewhat ridiculous. It looks as if he has had a well stocked kitchen not bread and water!


I am 54 minutes into that one and can't wait to get rid of the DVD. I simply don't like it. It's like the people can't act and are not that great at singing either. My son and I are both watching it and have the same feelings about it.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

I have eight recordings. The ones not mentioned so far (unless I missed them) are:
Erich Kleiber, 1956 with Birgit Nilsson sop, Hans Hopf ten, Gottlob Frick bass, Paul Schoffler bar, Hans Braun bass, Ingeborg Wenglor sop, Gerhard Unger ten
Hans Knappertsbusch 1962 with Jan Peerce ten, Sena Jurinac sop, Dezso Ernster bass, Maria Stader sop, Murray Dickie ten, Gustav Neidlinger bass, Frederick Guthrie bass
Karl Bohm, 1969, with Martti Talvela bass, Theo Adam bass, James King ten, Gwyneth Jones sop, Franz Crass bass, Edith Mathis sop, Peter Schreier ten
Can't remember enough about them right now to comment.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

I just watched this for the first time on youtube yesterday, and I really enjoyed it, especially the ending. I didn't know the story before I watched, so I was totally surprised when fidelio ended up being Floristan's wife. I had seen women play male characters in previous operas, so that's all I thought was going on. There were hints though, but I was truly surprised by that twist. In the end, I think Leanore is absolutely badass! She hatched the whole plan, pretending to be a man, becoming that guy's son in law, and all to save her husband. For once the damsel saved the man in distress. Totally awesome! When the evil guy pulls a knife out to kill Floristan, she pulls a gun out like "HEY! Get the heck away from my man". How totally awesome is that? Basically, I really liked it.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Dedalus said:


> I just watched this for the first time on youtube yesterday, and I really enjoyed it, especially the ending. I didn't know the story before I watched, so I was totally surprised when fidelio ended up being Floristan's wife.


Wish I had done it that way. What a great surprise ending for you.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Wish I had done it that way. What a great surprise ending for you.


Yeah it was! There were clues, and I was confused a bit. I was like, why does Fidelio care so much about some random prisoner? I just assumed he took great pity on him or something. But once the twist was revealed it all made perfect sense. Leanore hatched the WHOLE plan from the beginning to save her love. I just find it so impressive.

I generally don't read wiki synopses or anything before watching operas for the first time. I like to be surprised in the moment. I'll read it afterward to make sure I understood it correctly and so I really know what's going on for sure if I watch it a second time.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Anyone heard this version? It's a radio broadcast conducted by Desiré Emile Inghelbrecht, 1953. I haven't heard it yet- it's on my list of things to listen to- so I thought I'd first ask you self-confessed Fidelio Freaks if it was any good.

http://www.ina.fr/audio/PHD89036473/ludwig-van-beethoven-fidelio-audio.html

I've only heard this opera once I think, and though I don't think the recording was a bad one (Julius Patzak was in it) it left me cold for some reason. That was easily twenty years ago, so time to give it another go!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is something I had not seen before. According to this article (p. 239):



> On the 23rd of May, 1814, the premiere of the definitive
> "Fidelio" (Beethoven himself had now accepted this appellation)
> took place with great applause, the Master conducting in person.
> As the new E-major overture was not ready in time, the Prome-
> ...


I might have to put the Prometheus overture in to a folder and play the opera that way just to get a feel for what that first 1804 performance might have been like.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I'd call _Fidelio_ one of my favorite operas. The recordings I own are the classic Klemperer one with Ludwig and Vickers, and the Met DVD with Mattila and Heppner. For me they're ideal; on the other hand, they're the only recordings of the work I know.

For what it's worth, I was delighted to read recently that one of my favorite actors, Ralph Fiennes, likes _Fidelio_ as well; he said once that while he was in Poland filming _Schindler's List_ (in which he played the Nazi, Amon Goeth) he listened to it constantly, and that hearing it was a reminder to him that Germany produced humane works and not just hateful ones.


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