# Deprofundis go in the depth whit Jacob Obrecht, you guys have something to had?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Ockay one of the great polyphonist of early renaissance he was born in 1457/8-1505(died). He is a native of Ghent flanders, home of the great franco-flemish polyphonist of fame.

He is relatively persona non gratas, he good but not consiider among the greatest, he is mostly know
for his Missa Caput, salve regina,on the naxos cd i have there is only one motet called: Venit ad petrum.

Which is sad, since composer like obrecht composed also some amount of motets and chansons, im trying to order one of is cd of chansons chance are i wont be able to get it, im also looking for the Ockeghem chansons cd .

My point is secular or profane music is enjoyable even if the quantity is negligeable, i heard fews songs and motets of these two composers.There more than masses , these guys wrote excellent song motets but it's a bit hard to find Ockeghem cd of song on brilliant i crosse my finger i can have this one, but obrecht hmm chance are i wont be able to get it.

There is more to flemish composer than missa, there are songs of wonders , bright motets to discovered, i wish i could talk to you about Obrecht total output outside masses but i dont know 
him enought, only to says he has probably more to offer than Missa Caput...

Can a musicologist or someone knowledge about this classical composer had something,has i go in the depth and im not putting something new on the table , that haven't been said already.

Please unlighten me about this great genieous?

P.s i should have post this in composer guest book but if i did this , no one would care, i like to give him special attention on this post.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

post deleted :lol:


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

What the problem Pugg you seem to nag me on every post i make tease me if you will, post deleted like what the ??


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's a discussion of the motet Factor Orbis

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...epage&q=obrecht factor orbis exegesis&f=false


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

deprofundis said:


> What the problem Pugg you seem to nag me on every post i make tease me if you will, post deleted like what the ??


Oh...you do read my questions, I don't have a problem.
I am fascinated by your fascination , nothing more nothing less .
You make more then out it is mate, take a deep breath, I am not a offender just curios, that's all despite what you seems to think. So no hard feelings okay?


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

The Clerks recorded several of Obrecht's motets on their album containing "Missa Sub tuum praesidium". They are mostly very long, very substantial works.

Rob C. Wegman is probably considered the main authority on Obrecht, having written a pioneering biography and analysis of his masses. I have read parts of this book, though for some reason he doesn't write about the Missa Caput. He considers the masses "Fortuna desperata" and "Rose playsante" to be the summit of mature Obrecht, and also praises Obrecht's last mass, "Maria zart", among others.

The Sound and the Fury recorded those two masses, "Fortuna desperata" and "Rose playsante", included on the same double-CD album by the publisher Orf, but as far as I know you have to order it directly from the publisher's website (anyone interested can google Obrecht Orf).

Here's the superb kyrie from "Fortuna desperata":


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Obrecht seems to be under-represented in his total output. He used to be dismissed as a somewhat lesser composer by critics who only read his scores. When his works were actually sung, opinions began to change. His music is to be heard and not just seen. I would also recommend Rob Wegman's book.


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## sloth (Jul 12, 2013)

I tend to put Ockeghem and Obrecht on the same level (which is really high in my book).

some recordings I like:

Obrecht - Secular Works (Camerata Trajectina)
Obrecht - Missa Maria Zart (Tallis Scholars)
Obrecht - Missa Rose Playsante & Fortuna Desperata (The Sound & the Fury)
Obrecht - Missa Sub tuum praesidium (The Clerks' Group)


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Chordalrock said:


> I have read parts of this book, though for some reason he doesn't write about the Missa Caput.


Eh, not sure how I missed it, but Wegman does write about that mass in the final sub-section of "Mature Style". He says that unlike Ockeghem's mass, it is typical of the composer's mature style, though Wegman mostly has a half-page long quotation of Bukofzer to describe the mass and doesn't say much about the mass himself.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I think the groundbreaking analysis of the Missa Caput is in Manfred Bukofzer's Studies in Medieval and Renaissance Music, where he identified where the Caput came from. He compares Dufay, Ockeghem, and Obrecht's masses starting on page 244.


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