# Beethoven's 1st symphony



## Oliver

Am I the only one who loves Beethoven's first symphony? The first and third movements are amazing, and I'd honestly rather listen to it than the Ode to Joy, which I quite frankly can't stand. I'm just curious as to why his 1st symphony is always near the bottom of peoples top 9, I mean it's not my all time favourite, but I certainly think it's up there with his 3rd, 6th and 7th symphonies.


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## kv466

Great admirer of the 1st, here. I don't know. Most people I've had a chance to talk about this with like it very much and, if anything, place it above the second and eighth. Just my experience.


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## Ukko

The 1st symphony seems to me to be in _style_ a Beethovenized Mozart 40th, somewhat simplified. The 2nd is still Mozartean, but with added grit.

The 8th is a thing of beauty, a fine Classical symphony, composed when Beethoven was almost out of Classical range. He did a great job looking back.


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## jalex

An uncommon view to see it alongside the great later symphonies. Certainly it's a well-written, but it has none of the breadth, power, scope, adventurousness or subtlety of the later ones. It shows much influence from Mozart and Haydn, and I don't think we really start to hear Beethoven as we know him until symphony #2. The thematic material in general is not very striking and none if it is developed in the ingenious manner Beethoven will later make his hallmark. I find the final movement especially uncharacteristic, lightweight but without the sharp wit of, say, the andante from #8. The second movement stands out the most for me.


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## humanbean

Funny, I was actually planning a topic asking the same question.

I suppose I can understand why the "academic listeners" dislike it. As mentioned above, it doesn't have the "power or scope" of the later ones. While that explains why it's not AS popular as the later ones, from an enjoyability standpoint, who cares? I find the second movement more enjoyable by itself than a few of the later symphonies in their entirety. The opening fugue is magnificent and has an interesting pastoral quality to it. The first movement is quite good as well. The introduction is often commented on as being interesting and "different" in comparison to other symphonies written to around the same time. Overall, it's quite energetic. I think I may even enjoy these two movements more than some of the great works it was influenced by.

But then, I'm the type who finds more enjoyment in some lesser-known Dittersdorf symphonies than some of Mozart's later ones, so my listening skills MUST be flawed.


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## Olias

I love the First Symphony and have played it several times (as a hornist in the local symphony). It might interest you to know that during Beethoven's lifetime his First Symphony was the most popular and most performed of all his symphonies, most likely because it was the most "traditional" even though there are some very striking innovations within.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I like the first symphony. It's "Haydn gone mad!"


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## Il_Penseroso

Another admirer of the 1st. Symphony here !


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## Truckload

I love all of Beethovens Symphonies, including the 1st. He did not begin writing symphonies until he was already a completely mature musician and composer at the age of 30, in the year 1800. That is very different than Mozart and many others. Despite the 'late start" it is truly fascinating to observe LVB's continued growth as a composer through the series. 

Beethoven was a very intellectual, thoughtful compoaser, who achieved the quality of his works through had work and polishing rather than inpiration. We know this because we have the remarkable good fortune to be able to peruse his notes and sketchbooks. The appeal of the 1st for me arises from my appreciation of those qualities, as exhibited by this marevelous jewel. Beethoven carefully confines himself tightly to established forms and practices and achieves a superb beauty. Only in the Menuetto does Beethoven begin to show himself straining to break free of established convention. It is a wornderful work. 

But of course, one knows that LVB would not occupy the place he does in the constellation of musical stars if he had continued to produce only symphonies like the first. Still, I do enjoy it!


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## NightHawk

Hey Samurai, I have always loved the first symphony, it is amazing from the get go with those first mysterious dominant/tonic chords which are not in the right key, and only gradually does the real key of C major emerge. I love every movement! I think the 'wrong key' trick/joke is an obvious nod to Haydn who really liked to surprise his audiences in this way - cf Sym. No 96 in D major, the recap of the first movement starts in G major instead of D! Of course, he makes it work out and then gives us the proper recap in D. Also, Beethoven's false recap in the Eroica when it seems that the horn enters a bar too early - a written out 'goof', but it works!



GeneralOJB said:


> Am I the only one who loves Beethoven's first symphony? The first and third movements are amazing, and I'd honestly rather listen to it than the Ode to Joy, which I quite frankly can't stand. I'm just curious as to why his 1st symphony is always near the bottom of peoples top 9, I mean it's not my all time favourite, but I certainly think it's up there with his 3rd, 6th and 7th symphonies.


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## NightHawk

Yes! I prefer it easily to the 2nd and 8th, although both those symphonies surprise me when I happen to play them and then realize I'm thinking - 'hmmm, these are really pretty good!'. Still, I would say they (2 & 8) are the least programmed of his 9 syms. 



kv466 said:


> Great admirer of the 1st, here. I don't know. Most people I've had a chance to talk about this with like it very much and, if anything, place it above the second and eighth. Just my experience.


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## Sanfordius

having just discovered this forum/posting on the fly while listening to the final movement of this piece. W/out wanting to draw much of any preferred order or knowledge of or comparison to; no above all, when 1st hearing this some 35 years ago, it is the (faux) adagio leading to the (yes, borrowed from Papa) theme that so excites. These syncopated, off the beat bars and where they appear went from here to rock and roll, progressive rock, some jazz, certain factions of folk music, it is one of the very reasons why that I and many other friends/lovers of music were positively electrified into Beethoven. then after we discovered...the 3rd, or 5th, or 7th...well...he was then sealed into the body and mind


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## Novelette

"Haydn gone mad"... COAG, I think that's a great epithet for the C Major Symphony.


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## KenOC

Allow me to post a contemporary (1804) review: "...The third (concert), on November 15th, began with the excellent Symphony in C Major by Beethoven that was received with so much well-deserved applause in last year's concerts...This great symphony, this wonderful clear masterwork by B. which is full of harmony and still lacks all bizarre elements, was executed with taste and energy. How splendidly did the first Allegro sway back and forth in its emotional storms and effects! How pleasantly did the Quasi-Allegretto calm the excited senses! How unsurpassingly beautifully did the wind instruments play the 'singing' in the Trio of the minuet, in which the violins executed the progressing motions in entire synchrony! This was not quite the case at the beginning of the finale which is, after all, very difficult with such a number of players and where the most precise unison in bow movement and expression is asked for! The overall performance, however, was splendid."


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## TresPicos

The 1st is one of my top three Beethoven symphonies. It's also one of the best Haydn symphonies...


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## Arsakes

TresPicos said:


> The 1st is one of my top three Beethoven symphonies. It's also one of the best Haydn symphonies...


What do you mean?

Yes, I like it too but after Beethoven's 3rd,7th,5th and 6th.


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## realdealblues

Beethoven's 1st Symphony has been my favorite Beethoven symphony for quite some time now, although I will admit the 7th is gaining ground.


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## DavidA

Beethoven's first represented a development on the Haydn symphony. It is a remarkable achievement. But for me the revolution really begins with no 3. I think is was Haydn himself who said that everything had changed with the Eroica. I still love the first two symphonies, though. Full of Beethovian humour.


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> I think is was Haydn himself who said that everything had changed with the Eroica.


Only in the movie!  There's no record that Haydn ever heard the Eroica.


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## davinci

IMO, Beethoven's 1st is one of his greatest symphonies. You can hear a lot of Haydn in it, but LvB takes it in a different direction; classical in it's form, but I think revolutionary for it's time.
As for the criticism of #1, possibly people don't like the similarity to Mozart's Jupiter. I'm just speculating.


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## Bone

Definitely have #1 at top of my list. Not sure it is as "great" as 3, 5, 7, or 9, but I love it just because it's wonderful music.


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## AClockworkOrange

I think it is more a case of the First being overshadowed by its successors the any problem with the work itself. I could be wrong but I think it is the same with the Second, Fourth and Eighth too.

Competition is fierce in this cycle with no real weak links plus some are more instantly accessible than others, depending on the individual.


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> Only in the movie!  There's no record that Haydn ever heard the Eroica.


After hearing the 'Eroica', Haydn is alleged to have said, 'music now will never be the same'! 
Quote from Music Web International.
I don't k,now who is right. Ay thoughts?


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> After hearing the 'Eroica', Haydn is alleged to have said, 'music now will never be the same'!
> Quote from Music Web International.
> I don't k,now who is right. Ay thoughts?


The quote is taken from the movie "Eroica," where Haydn is shown attending the first performance of the Eroica Symphony at the Lobkowitz palace. Never happened, nor is there any evidence that Haydn ever heard the Eroica later. Certainly the quote is in none of the Beethoven references I have (and it would be!)

Worked well in the movie though. Haydn doesn't seem entirely pleased that music "will never be the same."


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