# So I actually got into opera I"M FLOORED. LONG *** POST



## shiftyoliver (Dec 8, 2009)

This is my first post here, but i just felt this was something that I had to share after having one of "those" experiences. I wasn't a huge fan of opera whatsoever before until about several months ago I thought eh, I'm pretty bored of listening to the same things so I figured I'd expand my horizon and give opera another chance. So I listened on youtube to random Puccini clips and thought to myself this **** is pretty awesome. I ended up getting Turandot as my very first opera. 

I kind of put of listening for awhile until just for ***** and giggles I listened to the finale and thought WOW, this is epic! So I listened to the whole thing from beginning to end in one sitting. First time hearing it, I remember being impressed, the 2nd time, I just was absolutely floored at how amazing it was and further subsequent listenings only added to my respect for Puccini. I used to think opera was annoyingly loud singing (and some parts I still think that, particularly when theres no orchestral back up, just them) but Turandot had gorgeous melodies, supported by rad, tour de force choir singing.

So I was hooked and realized I gravely misjudged opera. So I also ended up listening to Tosca and La Boheme though Turandot still remains my favorite from Puccini.

But I yet was about to experience music on a whole new dimension for me until I got into Wagner. I got the "orchestral highlights of The Ring" with Solti and listened through that. Crap I thought, listening to it on my 5.1 speaker system, this IS OFF DA HOOK. I got Solti's complete Ring Cycle and listened to the entire thing within the span of about a week and a half. I enjoyed it, though after the ending of Twilight of the Gods I was freakin spent. Long winded thats for sure.

One thing I like about Puccini is his sense of pacing, I never get bored or my attention wanders, to me he knows how to keep my interest, musically anyways since I never bothered to look up the plot outlines for his operas. Particularly with The Ring, I did find my attention wandering, even after having looked at the plot outlines, though one thing that was cool was I could sort of get an idea of what was going on specifically based on his musical motives playing at the time. To me that was one of the coolest things is I could just imagine what was going on, and so vividly to. And although my attention did wander, when his music gets good, his sort of "set pieces", **** does it get really good.

Though when I finally got Parsifal, GODDAMN I did not expect when I was about to hear. After hearing that, I had like an otherworldy experience. I don't think anything has ever moved me, emotionally or spiritually as much as the last 40 or so minutes of Act 1 and the end of Act 3. After it finished playing, I must of sat in my chair for a good 30-40 min (not even kidding) just staring at the wall, unable to grasp what I just heard. I think Parsifal must be one of the greatest works next to Bach's Mass in B Minor. To me it was like watching Stanley Kubricks 2001, it just draws you into something of a trance. I briefly looked Wagner's biography and apparently he only had 6 official months of composition lessons? How the hell did he come up with this genius? After further scrutinizing through his scores, damn was this guy innovative. And aside from my painful ignorance of opera, I must say that it just pains me more that generations now don't have and most likely will not have any idea about this monumental masterpiece. Even from a classical fan such as myself I had no idea about the great world of opera and Wagner until recently.

So aside from this rant of how great I think Wagner and opera I ask is there anything else like Parsifal? Or is that the epitome of beauty? With these gorgeous choirs and beautiful and ingenious use of harmony, the way he hides and shifts tonality so subtly...god... And is anyone so ecstatic about Wagner like I am after making this discoery? Share your thoughts.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

shiftyoliver said:


> After further scrutinizing through his scores, damn was this guy innovative.


You had a chance to peruse the score of _Parsifal_? Cool. It seems that, like most, you find the first & third acts of _Parsifal_ the most immediately engaging. That's pretty much the way I see things, too. However, I can find interest in the innovative construction of Act II. If taken out of its context and presented as an excerpt to people who might not otherwise know better, it has more of a feel of something written in the 20th century, not the 19th...

I'd say that _Tristan und Isolde_ is very much the equal of _Parsifal_ on the 'sublime beauty' front. As an opera, it has the better reputation. [Though in my case, I don't have a clear favorite among my five best-loved Wagner operas (_Tristan und Isolde_, _Die Meistersinger_, _Die Walküre_, _Götterdämmerung_ and, of course _Parsifal_).]


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I know how exactly how you feel about opera - its fantastic and possibly the greatest form of art on earth!!

You have to watch the opera on DVD or in the theater to experience it is my firm belief. The music is only a small part and it doesnt "count" unless you live in the story and all the visual aspects as well as the libretto!

Get a Ring DVD set..

Also I agree with you on 2001, Kubrick is my favorite director.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Get thee to an opera house.
A recording at home is no substitute.
Graeme


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## scytheavatar (Aug 27, 2009)

You need to check out Tristan und Isolde, it's really the best thing Wagner has done IMHO and in the opinion of many. Then you can check out all his other stuff, Lohengrin, Meistersinger etc. Then you need to listen to another ring cycle, I recommend Barenboim or Bohm because once you do you'll realize how awful and overrated Solti's ring is. Then once you are done with Wagner I recommend that you check out Richard Strauss's operas, which are Wagner on steroids. 

If you are looking for something like Puccini with a tight pacing and good plot I highly recommend that you check out Donizetti; Lucia di Lammermoor and L'elisir d'amore will be what you are looking for.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Here are some other great operas you should try :

Der Freischutz(The Freeshoter) by Catl Maria Von Weber, a major influence on Wagner. 
A spooky story of a marksman who gets seven magic bullets from the devil to win a shooting contest and win his beloved's hand in marriage. Everything works out happily, thank goodness !
Carlos Kleiber, DG.

Beethoven: Fidelio : His only opera, and the story of a woman who rescues her political prisoner husband from an evil tyrant who is keeping him a secret hostage and is planning to kill him.
Has some of his greatest music. EMI Klemperer, DG Bernstein. 

Modest Mussorgsky: Boris Godunov: A sweeping Russian epic based on actual history, about a Tsar who usurps power in Russia and struggles to keep his country from falling into chaos.

Dvorak: Rusalka: A Czech fairy tale about a water sprite who falls in love with a handsome prince with tragic results. The music is indescribably gorgeous and haunting.
Decca; Mackerras with Renee Fleming as the water sprite.

Tchaikovsky: Eugene Onegin: The poignant story of a bored Russian playboy and the naive young girl who falls in love with him. He rejects her, only to meet her years later when she's married and realizes what he's lost . Gorgeous music. Semyon Bychkov: Philips.

Giuseppe Verdi : Otello. The operatic version of Shakespeare's Othello. More powerful than the play. Levine: RCA. 

Leos Janacek: Jenufa. (pronounced YEN-oo-fa) Love, jealousy , conflict and the murder of an illegitimate baby in a small Czech village, with a hopeful ending after the tragedy. 
Grim story, but inspiring music. Charles Mackerras: Decca. 

Verdi: Don Carlo: Conflict between King Philip of Spain and his rebellious son Carlos, and the son's love for his stepmother ,Queen Elisabetta , who had been his beloved into she was forced into a political marriage with his father,mixed with political intrigue and religious oppression during the Inquisition. Powerful. Abbado: DG in the original French, or in Italian with Giulini, EMI.

Bedrich Smetana : The Bartred Bride. A delightful comedy set in a Czech village about a young man who wins his beloveds hand through clever manouvering of a marriage contract. 
Scintillating and melodious score . Zdenek Kosler: Supraphon in the original Czech or Rudolf Kempe on EMI in a German translation.

Georges Bizet: Carmen. A Spanish gypsy seductress and femme fatale seduces a young soldier who deserts the army to be with her only to be dumped in favor of a handsome bullfighter. He can't take no for an answer and kills her.
Colorful and exotic, with lots of Spanish local color and great melodies you'll recognize.

Tchaikovsky: Queen of Spades. A tense and gripping thriller about a young soldier and gambler who falls in love with a young noblewoman with tragic results. Unforgettable Tchaikovsky melodies. Valery Gergiev: Philips.


Hector Berlioz: Les Troyens (The Trojans) Based on Vergil's Aenead, a sweeping epic of the Trojan war and its aftermath ,and the doomed love of Dido and Aenaeas. Unforgettable.
This is just a beginning. Other great operas to try are Alban Berg's Wozzeck, Benjamin Britten's Peter Grimes, Verdi's Falstaff, Aida, Salome,Elektra, and Der Rosenkavalier by Richard Strauss, Pelleas& Melisande by Debussy, IL Barbiere Di Siviglia by Rossini, Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro(The marriage of Figaro), Don Giovanni and The Magic Flute, Wagner's The Flying Dutchman, Tannhauser and Lohengrin and Die Meisetersinger von Nurnberg , to name only a handful. 
You'll never regret becoming an opera fan !


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## TWhite (Feb 23, 2010)

shiftyoliver: 

Wow, did YOU get hit in the head!! Congratulations! 

Frankly, I had the same reaction that you had the first time I heard "Turandot"--and it was one of the last Puccini operas I heard. My reaction was: "Holy crap, the guy finally wrote an OPERA!!". And by and large, I like Puccini. But "Turandot", even if Puccini didn't live to finish it (it was finished from sketches by a compatriot of his), just floored me the first time I heard it. 

Okay: A couple of suggestions, since you've discovered PuccinI and Wagner (and I'm with you 100% on "Parsifal"--that's not an opera, it's an EXPERIENCE!): 
Try some Richard Strauss. I reccommend first of all--seeing where you seem to be coming from--"Salome." Eighty minutes of incredibly twisted eroticism with some of the most sensuous music you'll ever hear. It builds and builds and builds from the first orchestral prelude to an absolutely shattering climax. And if Salome's erotic final scene directed at the severed head of John the Baptist doesn't drop your jaw, it's probably because it's locked in shock at everything that's gone on before. It's an over-the-top stunner. If it were a movie, it would be rated NC-17. 
"Elektra": Strauss' version of the great Greek tragedy is as close to Atonality as he ever got. It's another short one-act (about the same length as Salome), but it's about as violent and vicious as anything you're likely to hear. It's almost an eighty-minute solo, and incredibly demanding on the soprano lead role, but you'll be shaking in your shoes by the time it's over. 
"Der Rosenkavalier": You won't believe that this incredibly beautiful opera was written by the same composer, OR that it came on the heels of "Salome" and "Elektra". It's the height of German post-romanticism, there's hardly a measure in the music that isn't absolutely gorgeous. It has two of my most stunningly favorite moments in all of opera, the Presentation of the Rose at the begining of Act II, and the jaw-dropping beautiful Trio in Act III. Of all of the operas I've ever heard, it's simply my all-time favorite. Just remarkable. 

So there are my suggestions. Whether you like them or not is totally up to you, understand, but oboy, are you heading into opera in a Big Way, at least IMO. 

Tom


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yep, Wagner will do this to you.
Try Tristan und Isolde next, it's quite extraordinary too. And of course, the Ring is such an experience! The first time I listened to it (in a few seatings since it is too long, 16 hours), at the end I couldn't stand up from my armchair for about one hour, just stunned, thinking of what I had just witnessed.


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## Johnmusic (Oct 4, 2017)

IMO a great opera can be seen and/or heard only. Some great performances not filmed eg Wagner with Flagstad, Melchior. No staging can out do what they sing. At times the visual stuff is silly per se or by director's whim and demeans the opera.

In the theater one can get the true vocal size but that does not always male live better than recordings.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I didn't realize this thread was 8 years old till after I'd read the OP. I wanted to write back to shiftyoliver and tell him, "No, there's nothing else like _Parsifal_." I had the same response to it when I first heard it, which was exactly the response of Mahler, Reger, Wolf, Sibelius, Nietzsche, and how many others. It was great to relive that moment through another. I wonder where shiftyoliver is now?


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## rhodanine (Oct 28, 2017)

I am quite partial to Stravinsky's _Oedipus Rex_ myself, particularly the version conducted by Seiji Ozawa. I believe it is available online. In any case, there was something to it that I found immediately quite captivating, and helped lead me into the wider world of opera as a whole.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> I wonder where shiftyoliver is now?


Apparently he is too busy immersing himself into opera over the past 8 years to come back and post further. Or his opera thrill was just a flash in the pan and he has moved on to other things.

His profile says he dropped by on Jul-14-2014. His post info next to the OP of this thread indicates three total posts but they don't show up.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Apparently he is too busy immersing himself into opera over the past 8 years to come back and post further. Or his opera thrill was just a flash in the pan and he has moved on to other things.


Or addicted and regretting he/ she ever wroth this.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I didn't realize this thread was 8 years old till after I'd read the OP. I wanted to write back to shiftyoliver and tell him, "No, there's nothing else like _Parsifal_." I had the same response to it when I first heard it, which was exactly the response of Mahler, Reger, Wolf, Sibelius, Nietzsche, and how many others. It was great to relive that moment through another. I wonder where shiftyoliver is now?


I feel like a soulless brute after reading this because I did not have the same reaction to it after the _first_ time I heard it. But now I do of course, every time I get to hear it. It really is the epitome of beauty, to use the OP's words. I think the OP either considers it a waste of time writing about music rather than listening to it or he is just awed speechless - and has remained awed for the last eight years.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I feel like a soulless brute after reading this because I did not have the same reaction to it after the _first_ time I heard it. But now I do of course, every time I get to hear it. It really is the epitome of beauty, to use the OP's words.


FWIW, I am still not there yet!!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> FWIW, I am still not there yet!!


Get moving. Life is short. But we'll forgive you if you don't get there in time. When you get to heaven you'll hear the final scene every day forever, whether you like it or not.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

As this thread is 8 years old maybe the OP has heard his operas and moved on to something else?


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