# Arthur Honegger



## clavichorder

Probably already a guestbook thread on this composer. I'm becoming a fan of his 5th symphony. It has very blaring and French sounding brass orchestration, his music indeed sounds very Science fiction. I love the way he uses brass and those fat chords at the beginning of his 5th. It all sounds so industrial and modern.


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## starthrower

I just received the Apex reissue of the complete symphonies by Charles Dutoit. I'm going to be listening to these over the next several weeks. I hope to report back...


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## violadude

starthrower said:


> I just received the Apex reissue of the complete symphonies by Charles Dutoit. I'm going to be listening to these over the next several weeks. I hope to report back...


I have that recording, very good stuff. 2nd and 3rd are my favorite.


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## starthrower

BTW, for anyone who is on a tight budget, the Apex 2 CD set is available for under 5 dollars.


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## Il_Penseroso

My favorite Honegger is Symphony No.3, Liturgical Symphony in 3 movements, a lamentation music after world war II. 
I love the ending part of each movement : a little bird song like melody from his earlier work Jeanne d'Arc au Bûcher as coda, a symbol of peace and Innocence specially in the last movement making a good contrast with a stromy horror music in marching tempo ... 
I have Karajan 1969 recording and can recommend it heavily to any one who's interested in Honegger music.


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## elgar's ghost

Snap with the 3rd Symphony - it's also my favourite out of the five. Also I like two of the 'Symphonic Movements' (I haven't heard 'Rugby'), the music he wrote for the 1934 film 'Les Miserables' and the oratorio 'Le roi David'. I'm interested in looking into his three string quartets as well - I can't ever recall any of his chamber output being mentioned at all.


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## starthrower

I've been listening to 3 & 4, along with Pacific 231, and Rugby. Great music! Both symphonies are terrific!

The Dutoit set is a great recording!


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## Vaneyes

Pastorale d'ete, Lopez-Cobos conducting.


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## starthrower

elgars ghost said:


> I can't ever recall any of his chamber output being mentioned at all.


From what I've read, there's some good music well worth checking out on the Timpani label.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Timpani/4C1079

The set is much cheaper from Amazon vendors.
http://www.amazon.com/Chamber-Music-Honegger/dp/B0002198XW


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## clavichorder

Symphony no. 3=A 20th century symphonic masterpiece, it would seem.


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## PetrB

That fifth is a great piece, and though through a contemporary lens sounding a bit 'dated,'(but as a non-criticism - one could reasonably say Mozart and Beethoven sound dated, as 'from their time) I think it is 'holding up' very well.
I still love those seriously tall vertical harmonies of the opening movement, and that third movement as someone suggested, sounds like it could easily be used as an alternate soundtrack in an older Flash Gordon serial, replacing perhaps Liszt's Les Preludes, Lol!

The Pastorale d'été is a sweet and ebullient gem.
For both the 5th and the pastorale, I prefer the Baudo recordings, models of clarity and balance, letting us hear every scrap of interplay and counterpoint, and quite matter of factly well-understanding the pieces, as well as that much closer to 'the source' as it were.

The Concerto da camera, for flute, English horn and strings is another very pleasant piece.









He wrote an alternately snappy, jaunty and lovely Concertino for piano and orchestra in sections - but set as one contiguous movement; really very fine imo, to a degree that surprises me it gets not much exposure on air or in performances. [Perhaps it is not thought of as having enough 'flash and display' to interest the shallower of piano soloists?]


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## Norse

I haven't heard that much by Honegger yet, but the last movement of the Symphony no. 2 for strings (trumpet ad lib) is awesome. The radiant trumpet chorale at the end sounds like a typical use of an existing religious hymn or maybe a simple patriotic song, but I haven't found any information about what it is, so maybe it's all Honegger?


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## unpocoscherzando

Honegger is a fascinating and relatively unsung composer; he was at once a master of the symphonic form, of orchestration, of various chamber ensembles (including three very diverse string quartets), of the concertante genre and of writing for the voice, among other things. I have the impression, at times, that, with him, I am listening, in a sense, to the end of a tradition; perhaps the end of a world.

Thus, I thought it worth bringing attention to the forum that there is an excellent playlist on Youtube which showcases many of Honegger's works: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD5A1672A0BB81810 It includes twenty-seven pieces, many of them rather rare in terms of recordings.


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## Head_case

elgars ghost said:


> I'm interested in looking into his three string quartets as well - I can't ever recall any of his chamber output being mentioned at all.


He's a firm favourite in the string quartet section - none if the French soppy sentimentality of the post romantics which we all love. Here's the old thread which destined our string quartet tastes to expansion:

http://www.talkclassical.com/8073-what-about-french-string.html

My cycle is by the Quatuor Genève on vinyl LP. It has a glorious full and rich sound with a ferocity of attack. Like for instance in the second movement of the first string quartet - it just sounds out ..far out ferocious compared the other sedate group of five. The Aura recordings on Erato have been pleasing over the Ludwig Quartet. I like the Aura but prefer the vinyl Quatuor Genève overall. No idea if this will ever see a CD release,..


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## Neo Romanza

clavichorder said:


> Probably already a guestbook thread on this composer. I'm becoming a fan of his 5th symphony. It has very blaring and French sounding brass orchestration, his music indeed sounds very Science fiction. I love the way he uses brass and those fat chords at the beginning of his 5th. It all sounds so industrial and modern.


I love Honegger's _Symphony No. 5_ as well. _Symphony No. 3 'Liturgique'_ is my favorite of the cycle though. I also love _Pacific 231_, _Rugby_, _Symphonic Movement No. 3_, the _Cello Concerto_, _Monopartita_, _Une cantate de Noël_, and _Pastoral d'ete_. His music has this grim modernity that is very appealing to me. His music may lack the colorful panache of other Les Six members like Poulenc and Milhaud, but I find Honegger's music much more compelling.


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## PetrB

Une cantate de Noël


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## PetrB

Concertino for piano and orchestra:





Serge Baudo conducting....
Pastorale d'été 





Symphony No. 5


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## Neo Romanza

My favorite Honegger cycles are Baudo and Luisi. I never cared for Dutoit or Plasson. There's a newer cycle with Roman Brogu-Sacher and the Lubeck Philharmonic Orchestra on the Musicaphon label but I haven't listened to any of it yet.


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## hello

Honegger, what a fine composer. Pacifica 231 is a classic in the futurism genre.


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## deprofundis

Wierd composer, not wierd unusual, is time signature in music is odd, if you understand what i mean.Haven't being able to get in the music as i whanted to, Is range is from loud powerfull triomphant Beethoven-esque to Schoenberg quiet moment.

But i only have symphony No.3 'lithurgique' so i dont kown if it's representative of is sound.
My point is ,is composition like nothing else is it a good thing yes, would i lisen to Honegger 
all days for 6-7 hours nope.

Someone has something to share about this composer, my dad hate him and he find him boring
are too bizzaro.Has for me i can't says i absolutly love is work nor hated i'm neutral on him.

have a nice day folks:tiphat:


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## PetrB

Arthur Honegger:

Pastorale d'été 





Une cantate de Noël





Concertino for piano and chamber orchestra





Symphony No. 5 _di tre re_













I think Honegger was a fine composer. Finding him weird, dissonant, "not like Beethoven," LOL, is the sort of average commentary from those fairly new to listening to classical music, or those who do listen to classical who have remained pretty oblivious to much of music past late 19th century romantic high chromaticism. They may know some of the Beethoven symphonies, some Mozart, some romantic music while not being really experienced with much of anything written later. These sorts of blanket criticisms by very typically non-professional classical fans about the following _full century -- the 20th -- of classical music now already behind us, i.e. in history_ are so typical that so I pay almost no attention to them.

"Weird?" I find it _just as weird_ that anyone claiming to have any interest in classical music has not at least surveyed the works of the early 20th century repertoire as much as they seem to feel they have, and know, of the eras of Beethoven, Mozart or, say, Tchaikovsky.

To my ears, there is nothing at all weird about Honegger. I think it very solid composing, and the music, like Beethoven's or Mozart's or Bach's music, sounds very much of its time and quite right according to its time.

Listen to the above links -- only a few of Honeggers fine works which I also happen to like -- several times each (past initial impression of being weird, so that it is just 'another piece of music,' and then see then what you think of it.


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## deprofundis

Your right PetrB I'm fairly new to classical music, i did not heard Beethoven enought or is entire works,so my comment was lacking in amateurism and ignorance, i dont wont to insult the greatness of these two composer or the intelligence of devoted and the knowledge of the classical fans out there.So i'm sorry my excuses i was wrong.


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## deprofundis

if i would said i dont like Honegger for x reason i can't get, that i can't appreciate is music right now this would have been more accurate and fair.


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## elgar's ghost

I think to some prospective Honegger listeners the 'Les Six' connection can be a curveball - perhaps at the outset some expect his work to be a little frivolous in the style of Milhaud and Poulenc, but the association was in fact rather more fleeting and I gather Honegger had no truck with the influence and irreverence of Satie at all, much of his output was composed along more traditional lines. 

Honegger's symphonies seem in places to share some common ground with Alberic Magnard's ultra-serious output from the generation before while still managing to avoid sounding dated.


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## PetrB

deprofundis said:


> Your right PetrB I'm fairly new to classical music, i did not heard Beethoven enought or is entire works,so my comment was lacking in amateurism and ignorance, i dont wont to insult the greatness of these two composer or the intelligence of devoted and the knowledge of the classical fans out there.So i'm sorry my excuses i was wrong.


_No opinion is 'wrong' -- it is just an opinion._ If you are really new or new-ish to classical, there is an ocean of repertoire, tons of good music, _from each era, including the 20th century and contemporary classical._

I would wait to form an opinion, though, until you've listened to pieces at least a number of times. Even some of the older classical and romantic music can seem 'strange' upon first hearing, and there is an idea if a piece is really worth listening to, it is worth listening a number of times. You don't have to, and I would not always recommend, listening to the same piece immediately after your first time with it.

Classical music has really changed as 'radically' from one era to the next as the change to the 20th century music and later.

Just give anything you listen to some real time. I know, if you are at the beginning, there are hundreds of hours listening to any of the older music, but since you are at the 'beginning,' I strongly recommend skipping around from one era to the next, keeping in mind the dates when the music was written. This will give you a quick general idea of the differences, and similarities, between earlier music and later music, from one era to another.

Best regards.


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## PetrB

elgars ghost said:


> I think to some prospective Honegger listeners the 'Les Six' connection can be a curveball - perhaps at the outset some expect his work to be a little frivolous in the style of Milhaud and Poulenc, but the association was in fact rather more fleeting and I gather Honegger had no truck with the influence and irreverence of Satie at all, much of his output was composed along more traditional lines.
> 
> Honegger's symphonies seem in places to share some common ground with Alberic Magnard's ultra-serious output from the generation before while still managing to avoid sounding dated.


I'm so sure that perspective is _just the thing_ a beginner new to classical music can readily grasp....


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## elgar's ghost

PetrB said:


> I'm so sure that perspective is _just the thing_ a beginner new to classical music can readily grasp....


Well, I was working on the assumption that the originator of the thread had perhaps read up a little about Honegger's career in the first place...


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## Xaltotun

After having developed a taste for 20th century oratorios, I decided to try and listen to his _Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher_, but I didn't like it at all - I found it the shade of strange that does not tempt for more exploration.


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## dgee

It's a very disjointed and uneven work with some great moments especially the martenot bits in the big climaxes.


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## PetrB

Xaltotun said:


> After having developed a taste for 20th century oratorios, I decided to try and listen to his _Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher_, but I didn't like it at all - I found it the shade of strange that does not tempt for more exploration.


Try his _Une Cantate de Noël_ -- for one thing, it is free of talking (I have a near complete aversion to works of music where speech is used while the music is playing) -- and it is far more a cohesive work.


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## PetrB

elgars ghost said:


> Well, I was working on the assumption that the originator of the thread had perhaps read up a little about Honegger's career in the first place...


I think it would follow that such a raw comment about his music being weird would not have come from one with such a background


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## SONNET CLV

The Honegger work I turn to most often remains his Symphony No. 4 titled "Deliciæ Basiliensis". Joseph Stevenson over at the allmusic.com website has this to say about the work:

The subtitle of this work means "The Delights of Basel, " reflecting its use of venerable popular tunes from that Swiss city. The work was commissioned for the anniversay of the founding of the Basle Chamber Orchestra, which is famous in the history of twentieth-century music for having commissioned and premiered an astonishing number of our era's greatest works for smaller ensemble. The first movement contrasts some dour thoughts with happier passages which, the Swiss-born composer said, "...raise the hope of an escape ... as, for instance, to spend a summer in Switzerland." The second and third movements are more consistently joyful, both based on popular songs. (In the second movement the original version of the song is not heard until the end, on horn.) This is one of the happier and finer symphonies of the twentieth century. 

I concur with the assessment in the final line of Stevenson's comment. There is nothing "weird" about this symphony, and it should be on the "must hear" list of any serious classical music aficionado. And since it's less than a half hour long, one needn't expend too much time to give it a listen. Yet I'm sure that once you've heard this fine work you'll return to it again and again. It has long been my "go to" piece by Honegger.


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## dgee

Symphony 4 is probably the pick, but I also enjoy Symphony 3 - the Litirgique. The power of the first movement can't be denied - then the mystery and desolation as the work closes is fantastic. A very post-war symphony it reminds me a little in shape and content of Vaughan-Williams 6


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## joen_cph

Symphonies 1-5 (especially 2 & 3) + some orchestral pieces conducted by Serge Baudo would be my primary recommendation for any Honegger collection of recordings.


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## dgee

The symphonic movements (Pacific 231, Rugby and the evocatively titled "number 3") are all fantastic fun


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## Richannes Wrahms

Perhaps his Symphony No. 5 'di tre re', a great work indeed, would be more popular if it had a more attractive introduction that built up into its original beginning.


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## deprofundis

Well to be honnest i kinda hated Honegger at first but sometime classic grow on you, so now i like Honegger's lithurgique, but i still find some of his work annoying like king david .But he not the worst composer either, it take fews lisen before gettting use to him.i guess.


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## Chronochromie

His Viola Sonata just blew me away, specially the third movement.


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## deprofundis

my favorite Honegger track is symphony no 3 lithurgique movement 2, de profondis clamavis., very very good piece, deep and emotional. It bring memory of joy of my youth when i beat up a bully i had a hudge smile that day, the sun was shining everything was ok, this is what Honegger music bring to mind a cheerful victory.


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## clavichorder

I'm trying to branch out from Symphonies 3 and 5, and am wondering what Honegger works you would recommend apart from that? I am enjoying symphony no. 2.


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## dgee

clavichorder said:


> I'm trying to branch out from Symphonies 3 and 5, and am wondering what Honegger works you would recommend apart from that? I am enjoying symphony no. 2.


Symphony 4 Deliciae Basilienses (sp?) is very pretty and autumnal (a favourite of mine) - a nice antidote to No.3, all three of the Symphonic Movements are good although I'd recommend Pacific 231 and the evocatively titled No.3 over Rugby, the Concerto da Camera is very nice also. King David and Joan of Arc (oratorios) are worth a listen - Joan of Arc has great moments with a wailing Ondes Martenot but is not very strong overall

I don't know his chamber/solo music at all


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## JACE

dgee said:


> The symphonic movements (Pacific 231, Rugby and the evocatively titled "number 3") are all fantastic fun


Yes!!!

I'd recommend Hermann Scherchen's Honegger recordings with the Royal PO:










The CD includes:
- Pacific 231
- Rugby
- Mouvement symphonique No. 3
- La Tempete
- Pastorale d'été
- Chant de joie

Plus Stravinsky's _Petrushka_

These are 1954 mono recordings. But don't let that deter you. They were audiophile recordings back in the day. And, more importantly, it's GREAT music.


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## starthrower

clavichorder said:


> I'm trying to branch out from Symphonies 3 and 5, and am wondering what Honegger works you would recommend apart from that? I am enjoying symphony no. 2.


I'll second symphony no. 4.


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## Five and Dime

I've just jumped on the Honegger train with both feet.

Let's see. I already had:
- one disc of cello music with Christian Poltera on BIS
- a few odds and ends on various recital discs including 
- - Pacific 231
- - Six Poèmes d'Apollinaire sung by Dawn Upshaw

On the basis of comments above (and discophage reviews on amazon), yesterday I bought:
- Symphonies 3 & 5 on Chandos (Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra; Jarvi)
- Symphony 4, Pastorale d'ete, and Cantate de Noël on LPO (Jurowski)
- some more odds and ends, including 
- - a violin sonata
- - Rugby, and Sym Mvmt #3 (Naxos, NZSO, Yuasa)

So far I like everything and I really like all three works on that LPO disk:









Now I have almost 4 hours of Honegger music to listen to and enjoy. What could be better?

Update: dug up also:
- - piano concertino (Decca, Thibaudet)
- - concerto da camera (Denon, Fournet)


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Five and Dime said:


> Now I have almost 4 hours of Honegger music to listen to and enjoy. What could be better?


1 hour of Honegger music 

Just kidding! I'm a fan of his, honestly.


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## Johnnie Burgess

SONNET CLV said:


> The Honegger work I turn to most often remains his Symphony No. 4 titled "Deliciæ Basiliensis". Joseph Stevenson over at the allmusic.com website has this to say about the work:
> 
> The subtitle of this work means "The Delights of Basel, " reflecting its use of venerable popular tunes from that Swiss city. The work was commissioned for the anniversay of the founding of the Basle Chamber Orchestra, which is famous in the history of twentieth-century music for having commissioned and premiered an astonishing number of our era's greatest works for smaller ensemble. The first movement contrasts some dour thoughts with happier passages which, the Swiss-born composer said, "...raise the hope of an escape ... as, for instance, to spend a summer in Switzerland." The second and third movements are more consistently joyful, both based on popular songs. (In the second movement the original version of the song is not heard until the end, on horn.) This is one of the happier and finer symphonies of the twentieth century.
> 
> I concur with the assessment in the final line of Stevenson's comment. There is nothing "weird" about this symphony, and it should be on the "must hear" list of any serious classical music aficionado. And since it's less than a half hour long, one needn't expend too much time to give it a listen. Yet I'm sure that once you've heard this fine work you'll return to it again and again. It has long been my "go to" piece by Honegger.


Symphony # 4 "Deliciae Basilienses" is very good. It is underrated in my opinion.


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## Pugg

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> 1 hour of Honegger music
> 
> Just kidding! I'm a fan of his, honestly.


you taking the mick, aren't you.


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## Johnnie Burgess

SONNET CLV said:


> The Honegger work I turn to most often remains his Symphony No. 4 titled "Deliciæ Basiliensis". Joseph Stevenson over at the allmusic.com website has this to say about the work:
> 
> The subtitle of this work means "The Delights of Basel, " reflecting its use of venerable popular tunes from that Swiss city. The work was commissioned for the anniversay of the founding of the Basle Chamber Orchestra, which is famous in the history of twentieth-century music for having commissioned and premiered an astonishing number of our era's greatest works for smaller ensemble. The first movement contrasts some dour thoughts with happier passages which, the Swiss-born composer said, "...raise the hope of an escape ... as, for instance, to spend a summer in Switzerland." The second and third movements are more consistently joyful, both based on popular songs. (In the second movement the original version of the song is not heard until the end, on horn.) This is one of the happier and finer symphonies of the twentieth century.
> 
> I concur with the assessment in the final line of Stevenson's comment. There is nothing "weird" about this symphony, and it should be on the "must hear" list of any serious classical music aficionado. And since it's less than a half hour long, one needn't expend too much time to give it a listen. Yet I'm sure that once you've heard this fine work you'll return to it again and again. It has long been my "go to" piece by Honegger.


It is a very good symphony.


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## Pugg

Five and Dime said:


> I've just jumped on the Honegger train with both feet.
> 
> Let's see. I already had:
> - one disc of cello music with Christian Poltera on BIS
> - a few odds and ends on various recital discs including
> - - Pacific 231
> - - Six Poèmes d'Apollinaire sung by Dawn Upshaw
> 
> On the basis of comments above (and discophage reviews on amazon), yesterday I bought:
> - Symphonies 3 & 5 on Chandos (Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra; Jarvi)
> - Symphony 4, Pastorale d'ete, and Cantate de Noël on LPO (Jurowski)
> - some more odds and ends, including
> - - a violin sonata
> - - Rugby, and Sym Mvmt #3 (Naxos, NZSO, Yuasa)
> 
> So far I like everything and I really like all three works on that LPO disk:
> 
> View attachment 86414
> 
> 
> Now I have almost 4 hours of Honegger music to listen to and enjoy. What could be better?
> 
> Update: dug up also:
> - - piano concertino (Decca, Thibaudet)
> - - concerto da camera (Denon, Fournet)


Beautiful cover also.


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## Johnnie Burgess

dgee said:


> The symphonic movements (Pacific 231, Rugby and the evocatively titled "number 3") are all fantastic fun


Yes, they are great and should be heard more often.


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## Honegger

Honegger is my favorite composer as you see form my username. His Symphony 5 is my favorite symphony. Pacific 2.3.1. is good but overshadows other work tbh... like the sqs are very good also (especialy #3). Symphony 5 the "Liturgie" is good also but is it too popular and 5 is better for me. I like Horace victoreaux, my favorite Honegger's stage work, and also JUdith. Very great composer imo.


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## SixFootScowl

Honeger said:


> Honegger is my favorite composer as you see form my username. His Symphony 5 is my favorite symphony. Pacific 2.3.1. is good but overshadows other work tbh... like the sqs are very good also (especialy #3). Symphony 5 the "Liturgie" is good also but is it too popular and 5 is better for me. I like Horace victoreaux, my favorite Honegger's stage work, and also JUdith. Very great composer imo.


Here is also a Honegger symphony thread: http://www.talkclassical.com/17792-honegger-symphonies.html


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## MusicSybarite

Some years ago I had the opportunity of hearing the symphonies. At first, I wasn't enough impressed, I guess it was so because of the qualities of the music itself: a great deal of dissonances, strong rhythm, lack of memorable melodies, etc. Recently, I played the symphonies 3-5 and my opinion changed dramatically: they are excellent stuff, above all the _Symphonie Liturgique_ and the _Di tre re_ symphony. Works significantly powerful and with a deep sentiment. It's incredible how your capacity of appreciating music gets better over the years!


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