# Any symphonies like Prague by Mozart or the 9 of Beethoven?



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

I just feel an energy and happiness with these two works, i cant get enough, so looking for orchestral pieces like them, any ideas? Mighty and high works! Thanks


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The late Mozart symphonies, 29 on.
Mendelssohn 3 and 4.
Schumann symphonies
Brahms symphonies


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

If you like the 9th but don't require a chorus at the end, you'll like Bruckner's symphonies. His 3rd is modeled on the 9th.

If you like uplifting choral symphonies, Mendelssohn's 2d symphony might interest you.


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

GREATTTT!! But Brahms is on the deep end and more violent right?i like those too, and also how would you qualify Beethoven's take on other of his symphonies, He was a very versatile man indeed!


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

the odd numbered ones are the more revolutionary except 6.
the evens are more whimsical and lighter.
generally


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Nope, they're unique.:tiphat:


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Vorisek wrote an awesome symphony that I highly recommend.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Vorisek wrote an awesome symphony that I highly recommend.


The Vorisek symphony is often paired with Arriaga's. I'd like to see a comparison!


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> The Vorisek symphony is often paired with Arriaga's. I'd like to see a comparison!


Easy. Vorisek>Arriaga

Sibelius>Segerstam


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Easy. Vorisek>Arriaga


Some detail would be welcome... :lol:


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Are you familiar with Joseph Haydn's symphonies? Try his symphony No. 94 in G Major, 'Surprise', or, for eg. No. 99 in E-Flat Major, or No. 100 in G Major, 'Military'.

Schubert's symphonies are also very good if you like Beethoven's and Mozart's symphonies - try symphonies 3-9, but they should all be excellent.


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Very appreciated!


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Schumann's 3rd, the "Rhenische". Lots of energy and happiness there.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I would also second the recommendations for the Mendelssohn symphonies - I've heard 1,2,4 and 5 and liked all of them. From these, no. 2 stood out as the symphony is orchestrated like an oratorio, with choir and soloists. It has some excellent melodies in it.


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Seconding earlier recommendations. These will fill out the other key Mozart symphonies -- and a dazzling performance (with dazzling sound quality): Charles Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Orchestra, _Mozart: Symphonies 29, 31, 32, 35 & 36_ (Linn, 2010).










And Charles Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Orchestra, _Mozart: Symphonies 38-41_ (Linn, 2009). This includes your _Prague_, and the others that others have recommended. Also the performance won a batch of best-of-year awards:










For Schubert, let me recommend an original instruments / HIP performance (and nicely priced)

Jos van Immerseel / Anima Eterna Brugge, _Schubert: The Complete Symphonies_ (reissue: ZigZag, 2012):


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Great! Wow, Schumann's third was a mighty joyful blast! Thank you Siegendeslicht! Schumann has a sort of repetition scheme to his music right? I'll keep on sampling, thank you all!


----------



## thetrout (Jan 28, 2012)

'Prague' is surrounded by masterpieces on either side. It is just one of five-six late symphonic masterpieces by Mozart. You have the Haffner, Linz, then the 39-41 - the 41st is Jupiter and often considered the greatest of the bunch but try them all. They are all incredible.

I second the Schubert recomendations. Schubert's 5th is very, Mozartian, whereas Schubert's 9th is Beethovenian in structure and scope (except with lovely Schubertian melodies).


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Fanatstique! I have found schumann blooming and riveting, very intense and loved it, instead of other sad, melancholy piano pieces I had heard, and by the way, does Dvorak figure like Brahms? I have really heard little of eastern European composers, just Sibelius and Tchaikovsky, as well as Rachmaninov, which I found first too much longing in Sibelius, the steppes and all, mostly in the symphonies, though there is some intense joy, and in tchaikovsky very much savage intensity, which reminded me of Dostoevsky, as well as Rachmaninov, it is heavy indeed, and in another sense beautiful, but not that elegant, my thoughts...


----------



## thetrout (Jan 28, 2012)

Just to clarify - Mozart's final symphonies:

No 35 (kv 385) _Haffner_
No 36 (kv 425) _Linzer_
No 38 (504) _Prague_
No 39 (543)
No 40 (550)
No 41 (551) _Jupiter_

No 37 is missing because it was discovered it was written by Haydn. Many CDs by conductors bundle these together (I believe someone has already recomended a version). No 40 and _Jupiter_ tend to be regarded as the greatest as they have an, almost Beethovenian scope and an element of pre-Romanticism, but you can really start just about anywhere. They are all masterpieces really and virtually equally as good as one and another. I got a feeling you will enjoy exploring them. If you want individual movements try,

- No 40th's 1st movement (molto allegroe), perhaps Mozart's most famous symphonic movement.
- Jupiter's 2nd (Andante), simply beautiful.
- No 39th's 3rd (Menuetto); I simply love this. It has a wonderfully, slightly foppish galante 18th century feel.

PS

Yes, Schumann's four symphonies are excellent.


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Dvorak 7,8 and 9.


----------



## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

thetrout said:


> I second the Schubert recomendations. Schubert's 5th is very, Mozartian, whereas Schubert's 9th is Beethovenian in structure and scope (except with lovely Schubertian melodies).


I share your love for Mozart's final symphonies, they are truly masterpieces. The consensus is 41 "Jupiter" as the best, I personally prefer 38 "Prague" and 40.

Ps. Perhaps Schubert's 9th isn't necessarily Beethovenian in structure, but definitely in scope. The closest composer to Schubert structurally might be Bruckner, who of course was born after Schubert died. Bruckner was very much influenced by Schubert's symphonic structure. Don't get me wrong, Schubert was obviously influenced by Beethoven, he practically worshiped him as a god, haha. It's just that I think of Bruckner when I think which composer has the most in common structurally with Schubert.


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Naccio said:


> Great! Wow, Schumann's third was a mighty joyful blast! Thank you Siegendeslicht! Schumann has a sort of repetition scheme to his music right? I'll keep on sampling, thank you all!


Naccio, If you enjoyed Schumann's 3rd, check out the performance by John Eliot Gardiner and the Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique (which performs these on period instruments). The box set includes all of Schumann's symphonies. In fact, it has just been reissued (in April 2014) with 2 added discs and yet for the same price. Here are the two covers (original on top, reissue below). The reissue is only $18 via Amazon sellers (and that's for 5 discs):


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Great Alypius! I'll search them out! Really! How important is the interpretation and direction! I've been investigating, what a chap Schumann! A very un categorical and unique genius, though I beware of his melancholy...


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Naccio said:


> Great Alypius! I'll search them out! Really! How important is the interpretation and direction! I've been investigating, what a chap Schumann! A very un categorical and unique genius, though I beware of his melancholy...


How important is interpretation? Huge, actually. Certain critics used to write off Schumann's symphonies -- that is, until Gardiner's performance of these in the late 1990s. Here's a couple of reviews:



> "Conductor John Eliot Gardiner and the Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique have recorded Schumann's orchestral music using period instruments and adhering to period performance practices. The effect is analogous to the restored ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Stripped of the meddling of others (added parts, re-written transitions, etc.) and the blurred tonal qualities that large modern ensembles can create, these fervent performances reveal sculptural definition, brightness, clarity and beauty of a previously undisclosed intensity... There are previous period recordings of Schumann's symphonies... but these performances are the most brilliant, penetrating and communicative."-Elliot Ravetz, _Time Magazine_ (August, 1998)





> "Gardiner offers the most revelatory insights of all and includes not just the four regular symphonies but a complete survey of Schumann as symphonist. He seeks specifically to explode the myth that Schumann was a poor orchestrator."-_Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music 2011_


Don't worry about Schumann's piano works for now. Follow what you are instinctively drawn to. If you would like, I would be happy to post reviews of the Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Symphony performance of the Mozart as well as the Jos van Immerseel / Anima Eterna Brugge performance of the Schubert that I had posted previously. I recommend those performances every bit as much as I recommend this one.


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Great! Send me all reviews and music writing! Best! Thanks a lot!


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Naccio said:


> Great! Send me all reviews and music writing! Best! Thanks a lot!


Ok, here goes:

Charles Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Orchestra, _Mozart: Symphonies 38-41_ (Linn, 2008). While this is a two-CD set, it is currently $13 via various Amazon sellers. The recording company Linn is a British manufacturer of high-end audio equipment, and they bring audiophile quality to this recording. I've listed all the awards this won -- and the recording quality is an important factor in that:










_Awards:_ 
•	BBC Music Magazine: "Disc of the Year" (2009)
•	BBC Music Magazine: "Orchestral Award" (2009)
•	Sunday Times: "Classical recording of 2008"
•	Le Monde de la Musique: "2009 Midem Award for Symphonic Works"
•	Le Monde de la Musique: "Choc de l année Award"

Review from _Gramophone Classical Music Guide 2010_:


> "There is no need to argue the credentials of Sir Charles Mackerras as a Mozart interpreter, so let us just say that this double CD of the composer's last four symphonies contains no surprises-it is every bit as good as you would expect. Like many modern-instrument performances these days it shows the period-orchestra influence in its lean sound, agile dynamic contrasts, sparing string vibrato, rasping brass, sharp-edged timpani and prominent woodwind, though given Mackerras's long revisionist trackrecord it seems an insult to suggest that he would not have arrived at such a sound of his own accord. And in any case his handling of it-joyously supported by the playing of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra - is supremely skilled; rarely will you hear such well judged orchestral balance, such effective marrying of textural transparency and substance. The Jupiter in particular has a wonderful bright grandeur, yet reveals details in the brilliant contrapuntal kaleidoscope of the finale that too often go unheard. Seldom, either, will you hear such expertly chosen tempi; generally these performances are on the quick side, but rather than seeming harddriven they exude forward momentum effortlessly worn. Nowhere is this better shown in the slow movements (even with all their repeats they never flag, yet their shifting expressive moods are still tenderly drawn), but also conspicuously successful are the slow introductions to Symphonies Nos 38 and 39 and the Minuet movements of Nos 40 and 39.  These are not Mozart performances for the romantics out there, but neither are they in the least lacking in humanity. No, this is thoroughly modern-day Mozart, full of wisdom and leaving the listener in no doubt of the music's ineffable greatness."


I'll post reviews on the other Mozart in a separate post.


----------



## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Naccio said:


> Great! Send me all reviews and music writing! Best! Thanks a lot!


Here's the 2nd one:

Charles Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Orchestra, _Mozart: Symphonies 29, 31 'Paris', 32, 35 'Haffner' & 36 'Linz'_ (Linn, 2010). Again a 2 CD set, selling at $14 from Amazon sellers.










Awards: 
•	Gramophone Magazine: "Finalist: Orchestral" (Awards Issue, 2010)
•	ECHO Klassik Awards: "Symphonic Recording of the Year - 2011"

Review from _Gramophone Magazine_:


> "Sir Charles Mackerras and his Scottish players are working backwards through Mozart's symphonies. This second volume follows their acclaimed (and award-winning) set of the last four symphonies with a group of works mainly from the latter part of his Salzburg period along with two he composed following his relocation to Vienna. Is another complete edition planned? It would be Sir Charles's second, following his survey with the Prague Chamber Orchestra (Telarc). There are some gaps here: Symphonies Nos 33 and 34, for example, and Nos 28 and 30 which both post-dated No 29. Perhaps they'll appear on Vol 3 with the "Little" G minor Symphony, K183. These two discs display all the qualities identified by Lindsay Kemp in his review of the later symphonies (4/08). There's a clarity to the acoustic as recorded in Glasgow's City Halls, which Mackerras uses to his advantage, instinctively bringing out telling inner lines: listen especially for the ear-tweaking viola "stabs" in the second subject of No 29's first movement or the clattering horns at climaxes throughout the symphony. This work, surely Mozart's first symphonic miracle, is given added weight and import by Mackerras's decision to take all repeats, demonstrating especially that the fourth movement is far more than a mere chase finale.... In fact there's so much to enjoy on these discs - armfuls of the humanity and wisdom referred to by [Kemp, the reviewer of Mackerras' earlier recording of _Symphonies 38-41_], and vivacity aplenty too in the Haffner and Linz, advanced wayposts on the march towards the unparalleled mastery of the last three symphonies."


----------



## thetrout (Jan 28, 2012)

Mackerras's Schubert is excellent as well. There is a two disc set which has the 5th, 8th and 9th on it as well.


----------



## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Schubert's Great Symphony in C (his 9th) I think fits the type of symphony you are requesting.


----------



## Naccio (Jul 16, 2014)

Dear Alypius, I must get hands on Mackerra, and what exquisite reviews, that both the execution and direction of the music, and the appreciation as well make it so much more magical, I want to be a music critic, learn the theory and all, I'm a journalist and poet btw, great again thanks again
N


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Beethoven #7
Shostakovich #6
Gottschalk "A Night in the Tropics"
Prokofiev #1


----------



## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

I know others have said Schubert symphony no. 9, but I thought I'd put another vote in to strengthen its case as the next logical step. Just as Brahms made an homage to the "Ode to Joy" theme in the final mvt of his first symphony, Schubert also made an homage to the "Ode to Joy" theme in the final mvt of his last symphony (no. 9)... On the subject of Brahms, I'd recommend his 1st symphony too, it's kind of Beethovian in its own way.


----------



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Chadwick: Symphonic Sketches #1 "Jubilee"
Bizet Symphony #1
Mozart Overtures "Marriage of Figaro", "Magic Flute"
Gershwin "Rhapsody in Blue"
Bernstein Overture to "Candide"
Suppe Just about any one of his Overtures
Saint-Saens Symphony #3 (Organ)
Handel "Music for the Royal Fireworks"
Bach Brandenburg Concertos #2,3
Hindemith: Symphonic Metamorphosis
Shostakovich "Festival Overture"
Widor "Toccata from Symphony #5
Ravel "Bolero"
Liszt "Les Prelude"


----------

