# Paul McCartney's New Ballet Score



## lou

Just came across this while browsing Amazon... http://tinyurl.com/3jbp7rf

Hadn't heard anything about it, but it looks to be very interesting.

I've never listened to Mr. McCartney's earlier classical music, but may need to remedy that soon. I think I'll be picking this one up on release.


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## lou

Here's a brief video preview. Interesting, the use of a digital readout of the music to create what looks like a cityscape.


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## Il_Penseroso

I don't like Paul McCartney and anyone like him who wants to prove him/her self as an all around man !


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## Curiosity

Macca can't do classical.


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## Sid James

Thanks for sharing this, I'll have to listen later, I'm on the go now.

Interesting, because I thought all of _The Beatles _were not able to read music, but I suppose that's not necessarily a drawback to writing music (eg. Irving Berlin or Lionel Bart). Maybe reading & writing are different things in this regard? Dunno. Maybe Mr McCartney has learnt to read & write music since the band broke up decades ago & he went solo...


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## Il_Penseroso

@ Sid James and Curiosity

This is not the first time for McCartney , see my posts here


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## Sid James

So, *Il_Penseroso*, it looks like (from that old thread you directed us to), you have listened to a lot of McCartney's purely classical works done with the help of other composers (eg. the _Liverpool Oratorio_), but you're saying you don't like them? Did you get into them earlier but found that you didn't like them? These things are little known, at least to me. Can you explain why you were interested in listening to them in the first place? Do you like this kind of "crossover" or whatever type of music. Forgive me if it's too obvious, but I don't know your tastes, etc., I don't remember you writing here about these things...


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## Il_Penseroso

Sid James said:


> So, *Il_Penseroso*, it looks like (from that old thread you directed us to), you have listened to a lot of McCartney's purely classical works done with the help of other composers (eg. the _Liverpool Oratorio_), but you're saying you don't like them? Did you get into them earlier but found that you didn't like them? These things are little known, at least to me. Can you explain why you were interested in listening to them in the first place? Do you like this kind of "crossover" or whatever type of music. Forgive me if it's too obvious, but I don't know your tastes, etc., I don't remember you writing here about these things...


Yes, I have, as a matter of fact , long time ago I was a Beatles fan, It happened to me for awhile having no time listening to classical music as carefully as I wanted, also I was in bad mood for that (the reason maybe is not so important but I'm sure everybody has experienced it at least one time in his/her life) so I got to listen to popular music but goodies like the Beatles. I got all of their albums, listening hours and hours to them, but my overview on Beatles was classical, not anything more, you know. I simply enjoyed modal tunes in their music, sometimes obviously as written in the first page of _Love me Do_ "Mixolydian Mode, not the key of C" , What I noticed with pleasure most of all, was a combination between modalism and a kind of progressive harmonic style specially in their later works (possibly under the influence of George Martin, their producer), and also other things which I described in the posts you were referred to ... I even tried to arrange some of their songs for piano solo in the manner of Liszt piano transcriptions with so difficult technical elements and it was successful !  then my girlfriend gave me McCartney's touches of classical music, "if you like the Beatles, then you may enjoy these too" but I didn't ! I listened to them all but the only one I rather enjoyed was _The Standing Stone_, reminds me of Vaughan Williams in some cases, with that short phrases always repeating and then fading in depth in an Impressionistic atmosphere and of course a strong orchestration which is so colorful , I described them in that old thread for McCartney's lovers but personally don't like most of them ... I don't call it a "crossover" you know, of course he's a fabulous songwriter. What seems pity to me, typically in recent years, is that Mr. McCartney gonna prove himself as a painter, poet, classical composer, children music writer and so and so ... all together, all in one ! well , I think he wanna make us accept him as a genius, number one in every fach of art ! an all around man ! but most of these works, as you can see too, have been done not so good, not so perfect as he does as a pop star, sometimes even quite poor, but after all he's praised so much in newspapers, TV and other medias, why ? let's be honest, cause he's an Ex-Beatle, that's all ! If anyone else composed a work such as _Liverpool Oratorio_, there was a huge mess of criticism over him ... ! That's why I don't admire McCartney anymore. Hope of clarifying the stuff


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## Sid James

^^Ok, thanks for that, I get where you're coming from now. I agree that one can be a "Renaissance man" if one kind of has the goods, the talent or whatever, but I'd say it's fair to opine that Mr. McCartney is no Leonardo da Vinci? This isn't a reflection on McCartney's "serious" music, which I have not heard as yet, but your description of him attempting to juggle too many balls at once...


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## elgar's ghost

Hasn't Elvis Costello done some classical work as well? And so has Karl Jenkins of course but I prefer to remember him for when he was noodling about in Soft Machine. I heard some written by Frank Zappa years ago but I wasn't into classical then so I can't comment on whether I'd like it now as I don't play vinyl any more.


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## Sid James

^^Yes, a friend told me he knew of a record put down by Frank Zappa with the Ensemble Intercontemporain in Paris. As you know, that group was founded by Pierre Boulez. I think this recording was completed (definitely published), unlike some of Zappa's other "classical" projects that I've read about which were works in progress when he died (eg. he was working on the music of Edgard Varese, I believe)...


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## clavichorder

Joe Jackson is another pop artist gone classical for the record, with his symphony number 1.


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## Il_Penseroso

And don't forget Roger Waters with his opera "Ça Ira", though it's hardly categorized in the genre , not so good for staging ...


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## Il_Penseroso

@ Sid James : Shocked !  What's this Avatar !?


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## Sid James

^^ It's a horned *chameleon* (a type of lizard, these are mainly found on the island of Madagascar, they're known for being able to change their colour). I thought of changing to this after making THIS thread recently (but I think your one, Rodin's great sculpture, is probably more easy to look at!)...


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## Il_Penseroso

Sid James said:


> ^^ It's a horned *chameleon* (a type of lizard, these are mainly found on the island of Madagascar, they're known for being able to change their colour). I thought of changing to this after making THIS thread recently


Aha ... :lol:



> (but I think your one, Rodin's great sculpture, is probably more easy to look at!)...


No, yours is nice ! I like it !


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## elgar's ghost

Sid James said:


> ^^Yes, a friend told me he knew of a record put down by Frank Zappa with the Ensemble Intercontemporain in Paris. As you know, that group was founded by Pierre Boulez. I think this recording was completed (definitely published), unlike some of Zappa's other "classical" projects that I've read about which were works in progress when he died (eg. he was working on the music of Edgard Varese, I believe)...


Hi, Sid. I remember the album of Zappa's that I had was called 'Orchestral Favorites' - the reasons behind its release were a little convoluted but in a nutshell it was possibly culled from a longer work which Zappa allegedly planned to release in order to extricate himself from one of his Warner Bros-based distribution contracts in one fell swoop but the label disagreed with this and directed him to release what he had to offer in the form of four separate albums of which this was the last. First of all he cleverly released a live LP of rock material to get one of the albums out of the way - for the rest of the story wikipedia's article under 'Frank Zappa Discography' is as good a place as any to look.

There were rock musicians playing on 'Orchestral Favourites' but it was pretty much orchestral-based and really didn't float my boat at the time. In essence it was a sister release to another of the contractual obligation albums released the previous year called 'Studio Tan'. One of the titles on that album was 'Revised Music for Guitar & Low-Budget Orchestra' - I think Ives might have smirked at that! I had read back then that he was influence by the likes of Varese but the classical world seemed elusive - not to mention exclusive - to me back then and I didn't investigate any further.


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## lou

Il_Penseroso said:


> Yes, I have, as a matter of fact , long time ago I was a Beatles fan, It happened to me for awhile having no time listening to classical music as carefully as I wanted, also I was in bad mood for that (the reason maybe is not so important but I'm sure everybody has experienced it at least one time in his/her life) so I got to listen to popular music but goodies like the Beatles.


Your comments seem to suggest there is something wrong, or lowly in appreciating popular music. Perhaps this was not your intent?

I get what you are saying about Mr. McCartney trying to be a jack of all trades in the arts. Perhaps he doesn't have the skills necessary to compose classical/symphonic on his own, but the man has certainly written many great melodies over the years. I'm certainly much less knowledgeable in the area of music than yourself and many (probably most) here, but melody appeals greatly to me in almost any work.


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## Il_Penseroso

lou said:


> Your comments seem to suggest there is something wrong, or lowly in appreciating popular music. Perhaps this was not your intent?
> 
> I get what you are saying about Mr. McCartney trying to be a jack of all trades in the arts. Perhaps he doesn't have the skills necessary to compose classical/symphonic on his own, but the man has certainly written many great melodies over the years.


Please see what I commented in my post :



> I don't call it a "crossover" you know, of course he's a fabulous songwriter.


Personally I know Paul McCartney not only as one of the most talented musicians, not only one of the best Melodists, but an innovator in the history of popular music as well: just take a look to the sudden modulations in _Penny Lane_ and in that humorous song _Martha, My dear !_ or dissonances in beautiful _The fool on the hill _which don't harm your ear at all but quite in opposite sound light and tender ... But with his classical touches, in compare to his career as a pop musicain, what is so special with those works ? what's so new ? he just gave it a try to prove that he can do it, that's all of what I want to say.



> I'm certainly much less knowledgeable in the area of music than yourself and many (probably most) here, but melody appeals greatly to me in almost any work.


So, have you ever listened to _Liverpool Oratorio_ or _A Garland for Linda_ ? If you appriciate melody most of all, then you may have problem with these ...


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## lou

Il_Penseroso said:


> So, have you ever listened to _Liverpool Oratorio_ or _A Garland for Linda_ ? If you appriciate melody most of all, then you may have problem with these ...


No, I confess that I have not. Only recently have I started seriously listening to classical music, so those works were previously ignored by me. If you say they lack in melody and uniqueness, I don't doubt you. This new ballet work appeals to me, simply for the subject matter and being new to classical, I was excited to hear of it. Perhaps I will wait to find a copy at the library, or sample the music somewhere else before purchasing. Thank you for your insight.


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## Jobe

Something else to add to my online wishlist


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## starthrower

The Zappa album with Boulez is The Perfect Stranger released back in 1984. He also recorded several of his orchestral works with the Kent Nagano and London Symphony, available on a 2 CD set. Maybe his finest project is The Yellow Shark, recorded with the Ensemble Modern in 1992 and released just prior to his death. This one has the most varied set, from the melodious to the highly abstract. It was also filmed, and there are bootleg DVDs floating around.


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## itywltmt

Il_Penseroso said:


> And don't forget Roger Waters with his opera "Ça Ira", though it's hardly categorized in the genre , not so good for staging ...


And Billy Joel's _Fantasies & Delusions_


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