# composers you respect, but don't love



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

The thread contrasting composers' "best" works with your favorites got me thinking about this. I think we all have some composers whose greatness we recognize, but whose music just doesn't reach us. Who are yours? Some of mine, off the top of my head.

Handel
Schumann
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Bruckner
Carter


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Hildegard von Bingen
Pergolesi
Monteverdi

...and most of those old religious composers from the Renaissance.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I understand the intention of this thread, but first I wanted to say I respect all composers even those here on TC. I once composed a simple work for piano and struggled to produce something that was quite bland. Anyone who works hard to produce interesting music deserves respect.

OK, but to the thread... I have read many papers devoted to Xenakis' music and have found his ideas and methods fascinating. I have very much wanted to find his music wonderful, but unfortunately I have not achieved that goal. Someday perhaps.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Shostakovich
Mahler

I am close to loving Mahler though.


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

My main composers in this category are Bach and Beethoven.

I have tremendous respect for Bach's counterpoint and his standardization of "the rules". There are a FEW pieces of his I like, but by and large, his music makes me nervous (too much "moto perpetuo", even though it was a part of the style he was writing in.). 

As for Beethoven, the exception is the Ode to Joy from the 9th Symphony. Otherwise, no. It just doesn't reach me.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

isorhythm said:


> Tchaikovsky


Isn't Tchaikovsky supposed to be a composer you love but don't respect?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Bach
Brahms
Schumann

I do like some pieces of each and I still have a lot to listen to but I'm not really getting warmed up.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I respect the greats from much of the Baroque era, and before, but I never listen to their music. Bach and Vivaldi are the only two I pay much attention to, and Bach is the only one I love
I've never warmed to Schumann. Personally, I don't see how he is supposed to be one of the greats of the Romantic era, but his music is the most "Romantic" Romantic music I know, so I have to applaud his efforts
I appreciate Brahms, and his chamber works are cool, but I don't love him
There's a variety of 20th century and contemporary composers who have interesting ideas and unique music that I can respect, but I don't listen to them


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Tchaikovsky, Webern, Mozart, Handel, Saint-Saens, Takemitsu,...


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Glass
Smetana
Liszt
Copland
Glazunov (apologies to Huilunsoittaja)

Ok, well I guess I'll come out of the closet and say…Morton Feldman (but this could change eventually!)


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Mozart. Sorry, but there it is. I should never have watched Amadeus but I think it just confirmed something I had already felt for a long time. A certain smarmy facility, like "this is too easy to be great, but I am going to convince you anyway." 

Having said that, I remember distinctly the first time I ever heard the double fugue in the Mozart Requiem. And I was like, whoa! True greatness.

Best Regards, 

George


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Domenico Scarlatti; Antonio Vivaldi; Claude Debussy.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

hpowders said:


> Claude Debussy.


Ouch!

I'd really like to hit you over the head with the complete orchestral score to _Pelleas et Melisande_.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Penderecki, Rautavaara... Probably some more too.

I don't know why, but it seems like I don't really like French composers very much. Their styles are somehow off-putting for me. And I've listened to quite a bit of their oeuvre too, but not much has impressed me.


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## pianississimo (Nov 24, 2014)

Brahms and Strauss. All the Strauss's


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Composers I still respect in the morning are legion and there are a lot I merely like but don't love. Mahler is an example of the latter. I love his works while they are playing, but then they are gone and I have no memory of the experience. Weird.

But there are composers I respect but generally dislike their music at present.

*Delius* - Cool name, wonderful sonorities sometimes, but the melodies just seem to meander aimlessly to me.

*Bridge* - similar to Delius. Nothing to focus on for me.

*Mendelssohn* - I love the Hebrides Overture and parts of Midsummer Night's Dream, but the symphonies and chamber music are just so-so for me, even the Octet which I have heard analyzed at length. He is often too frenetic too. Dude, lay off the coffee!

*Scriabin* - I appreciate his contribution, way ahead of his time in many ways, but he is like everything I dislike about Chopin magnified to powers of ten. I do enjoy his orchestral work though, if not his piano music yet.

*Shostakovich* - I used to love his work. I still love the first cello concerto and some parts of the first piano concerto, but now I find him either too grim or too fluffy silly comedic, often within the same piece. He is a giant among composers but not often for me these days.

I suppose the opposite of this would be composers you love but whose works you recognize as not all that great. They would be the guilty pleasures


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## pianississimo (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm the same. Debussy leaves me cold - except for his chamber music. I think the French do that type of music very well.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I love Mahler, but will I respect him in the morning?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Isn't the whole point of atonal modern music to evoke respect and fear/hatred at the same time?


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## TradeMark (Mar 12, 2015)

Schubert
Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninoff


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Sullivan, Bax, Goldmark, Nyman, D. Scarlatti. Even then, it's only Sullivan's theatre music in conjunction with Gilbert's lyrics which can bring me out in a rash - the others I can listen to but unfortunately I don't find them particularly interesting.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Debussy and Ravel - sigh! 

I like Peleas et Melisande, but the rest of their work doesn't interest me much, I'm afraid - even though I recognise they are great composers


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Handel, bartok, Schoenberg.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Stravinsky!
Sorry, it's not that I'm anti modern. (Messiaen and Ligeti are two of my favourites) But I have a stumbling block when I come to much of his work. I recognise it as genius but it just doesn't move me.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I used to reply to questions like this with "Hindemith." Not an ounce of sentimentality in his music. He was a theorist and textbook writer and often sounds like it. Never seemed like a loveable sort to me. 

And yet he's worn me down somehow--at this point, even the Ludus Tonalis has become like a family friend!


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2015)

Mozart. I'd say why but would be disparaged.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

At the moment: Bach, Wagner, Bruckner, Smetana, with Mozart and Beethoven in a somewhat ambivalent position - there are moments when I love their music, and I certainly respect their immense talents, however, I still think they're a bit overrated in comparison to Haydn. Mendelssohn is a composer where I love some aspects of the music, but cannot say I 'love' all of his music, at least at the moment. Brahms is a composer I sympathize with for 'sticking to his guns' and standing up for classical-style structure - I cannot say I come back to his symphonies too often, though. I do really like A German Requiem, that piece is becoming one of my favourites by him. I respect Berlioz, but cannot say I love his music (yet), though I do really like the Symphonie Fantastique. 

Jan Dismas Zelenka and Michael Haydn are two others I respect, but am not familiar with enough of their work to judge fully. What I've heard from Corelli and Albinoni, I've really enjoyed, but as in the former cases, I would need to hear more of their work to judge comprehensively.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

hpowders said:


> I love Mahler, but will I respect him in the morning?


I love the sound of Mahler in the morning.

I would add Alan Hovhanness to my list. He wrote 50 symphonies and they all sound _exactly_ alike…boring! His 2nd symphony is ok, but that's about it for me.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

There are so many composers that I know very little - or even nothing - about.
So I can't 'love' them, but don't dare not to respect them, because I wouldn't have the right.

However, I have to say that when others have raved about Schubert's Lieder, e.g. the Garrulous Cranium, I have listened and tried to like, but just hear some rather fruity German singing. My bad! 

And I respect Rameau tremendously, because PetrB (somewhat surprisingly) rated him higher than Bach - but maybe because I came to Lully first and am passionately attached, whenever I listen to Rameau, I feel a bit underwhelmed. 

The Big Yins - Beethoven, Mozart & Bach - I both respect and love.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

That pretty much sums up my opinion of Bach about half a year ago. I respected him massively, but didn't really enjoy his music.
Thankfully, I have since seen the light.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> That pretty much sums up my opinion of Bach about half a year ago. I respected him massively, but didn't really enjoy his music.
> Thankfully, I have since seen the light.


The one Bach piece that does get me going is the Christmas Oratorio and his Mass in B minor is excellent as well. I just rarely come back to them somehow. I generally get my Baroque kicks from Telemann, maybe that's why .


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Only composer I really am meh about is Havergal Brian but man, I do respect his ability to compose a very long symphony.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Dim7 said:


> Isn't the whole point of atonal modern music to evoke respect and fear/hatred at the same time?


No, the point of it is exactly the same as any other music.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Handel and Haydn. Talented as they were, Bach and Mozart render them expendable.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

*Vivaldi* (while respecting all 500...well, maybe only 439)
*Mozart* (my respect knows no bounds)
*Bizet* (like Ned Rorem, "I like everything about _Carmen_ but it")
*Offenbach* (the fewer tales Hoffmann tells, the better)
*Rimsky-Korsakov* (except for that catchy thing from _Mlada_) 
*Debussy* (actually I do love some of his chamber music and will never stop thinking I ought to love _Pelleas_)
*R. Strauss* (the _4 Last Songs_ are more than counterbalanced by Baron Ochs, changing baby's diaper, and assorted shrieking Greeks)
*Mahler* (I'm sneaking this one in unnoticed while 1000 people are invoking the creator spirit, the eternal feminine, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,...)
*Shostakovich* (just unlovable in so many ways, even though occasionally moving)
*Schoenberg* (how can you not respect a guy who looks at you as if he's figured out that you're too stupid a _Schwein_ even to respect him?)


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

For me most of the French composers, Mahler, Brahms (even though he's really started to grow on me here recently), and I'm sorry but with the exception of one or two, the 20th century composers. 20th Century music just sounds... all over the place to me. I don't know, maybe I just like more melodic and traditional harmony styled pieces. That's also part of why Brahms is a little difficult to enjoy for me, because his music is very asymmetrical. In areas where you would expect a repeat of a phrase, or an answer to a question, he does something you wouldn't expect. Don't get me wrong, as this thread states, I have great respect for these composers, they're just not my forte (no pun intended). But I think different composers are just acquired tastes for some though and take time to really appreciate.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Don't have any...that I can think of at the moment. All the composers that I don't like I also don't respect that much. Maybe I'm just a butthole like that lol.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Haydn maybe? Beethoven almost... but I really do love a lot of the lighter Beethoven (the worthy, very serious stuff grinds on me a bit)


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

MAHLER!

(ducking for cover!)


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> *Vivaldi* (while respecting all 500...well, maybe only 439)
> *Mozart* (my respect knows no bounds)
> *Bizet* (like Ned Rorem, "I like everything about _Carmen_ but it")
> *Offenbach* (the fewer tales Hoffmann tells, the better)
> ...


Every one of these are among my absolute favorites. I love them all. The end of your list, I tend to agree with.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Dim7 said:


> Isn't the whole point of atonal modern music to evoke respect and fear/hatred at the same time?





Mahlerian said:


> No, the point of it is exactly the same as any other music.


Kidding, kidding!


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> No, the point of it is exactly the same as any other music.


Which is what, in your esteemed opinion?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> Handel, bartok, Schoenberg.


Good god man, if you respect him where's the upper case B???! :lol:


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Haydn... haven't finished listening to all his symphonies as yet and the string quartets are too numerous to appreciate - probably need more time but love is out of the question. Lots of respect though

Handel - love his orchestral work but cannot say I 'love him' metaphorically speaking of course. Need to delve into his operas maybe some day it will click

Vivaldi - charismatic, energetic but completely lacks that spark that ignites love

Brahms - infatuation rather than love. I greatly admire his style and probably will love him at some point

Xenakis - still trying.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Morimur said:


> Handel and Haydn. Talented as they were, Bach and Mozart render them expendable.


maybe to you, dude. Thinking of Haydn as a 'worse version of Mozart' is quite wrong, imo. They are different composers and have different strengths. I may not be into Mozart as much as I am into Haydn, still though, I really like some of Mozart's music and admit that it is extremely well crafted. And Handel expendable? How can one think that the Messiah is expendable? Can't agree with this post at all.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Muse Wanderer said:


> Haydn... haven't finished listening to all his symphonies as yet and the string quartets are too numerous to appreciate - probably need more time but love is out of the question. Lots of respect though
> 
> Handel - love his orchestral work but cannot say I 'love him' metaphorically speaking of course. Need to delve into his operas maybe some day it will click
> 
> ...


With Haydn quartets, it's not about how numerous they are - that's not really why people love his style. It's the wit and the humour, as well as the variety (for eg. contrast Op. 20 with, say, Op. 71), craftsmanship and their structural balance and cohesion - you can take any Op. 20, 33, 50, 54, 55, 64, 71, 74, 76 quartet - all of them possess the above described features, imo.

Haydn also has masses, sonatas, Piano Trios, etc. which also contain some of his best music, imo. You may like his masses if you like a more dramatic sound - for eg. the Nelson Mass or the 'Paukenmesse' (or any one of the 6 late masses).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

shangoyal said:


> Which is what, in your esteemed opinion?


To delight the senses. To move one emotionally and/or intellectually. To become our sustenance.

In short, music's purpose is to be music.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Muse Wanderer said:


> Brahms - infatuation rather than love. I greatly admire his style and probably will love him at some point
> 
> Xenakis - still trying.


I can help you!!!

Let me know what you think of these.


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> With Haydn quartets, it's not about how numerous they are - that's not really why people love his style. It's the wit and the humour, as well as the variety (for eg. contrast Op. 20 with, say, Op. 71), craftsmanship and their structural balance and cohesion - you can take any Op. 20, 33, 50, 54, 55, 64, 71, 74, 76 quartet - all of them possess the above described features, imo.
> 
> Haydn also has masses, sonatas, Piano Trios, etc. which also contain some of his best music, imo. You may like his masses if you like a more dramatic sound - for eg. the Nelson Mass or the 'Paukenmesse' (or any one of the 6 late masses).


I may have made a cardinal mistake of listening in numerical order to most of his works. I tried that with Mozart and soon changed ways!
His wit and humour is a plus and gives him a unique character but I may miss the magic of Mozart or tremendous impact of Beethoven. 
I have got to delve further into his works as soon as possible by finishing off all the symphonies and then focusing again on the quartets.

Same problem with Handel. Listened to all his concerti expecting Bachian grandeur. Classical mistake! He is great in his own way and I am happy to have discovered him.

So much to listen for, so little time !


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> I can help you!!!
> 
> Let me know what you think of these.


Thanks Septimal Tritone :tiphat:

I had difficulty to get into Xenakis and knew I was missing something.

I absolutely love Ligeti so could not understand why Xenakis was so weird, so untouchable, so unsolvable.

After Septimal Tritone kind advice...

I am now listening to Xenakis Bohor for the third time round on closed over-ear headphones completely immersing myself in the music's soundstage.

(Bohor part 1 and part 2)

This is truly mind altering music, where the subconscious is torn by the incessant high dynamics, the metallic banging, drops and scratches, the shifts in tone made by the Laotian mouth-organ and by so many other other-worldy sounds that includes Byzanthine chants! The pauses in the music are less than a second in duration but they're perceived as rests urgently needed during the constant flow of a torrent of sound.

The mind eventually starts to take it all in and the broad structure of sound becomes clearer with every listening session.

The ending feels like being left in a tent almost blown away by hurricane winds whilst the incessant rain grates at the seams of your only shelter. The sound then suddenly stops leaving you gasping for air, literally!

Maybe this is a metaphor for being shown another world made of physical sounds that can physically interact directly with your own brain, induce differing primordial affects and when the sound suddenly disappears leaving you in a post-dreamlike state where you have no clue what just happened.

I adore Ligeti and his music has grown on me these past few months.

Now I am looking forward to experiencing Xenakis' own world.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Jul 21, 2013)

Scrabin and Ravel.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

Only Vivaldi, for now.


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## DebussyDoesDallas (Jan 11, 2014)

Another way to look at it is not which composer, but which genre. For instance, I've yet to develop a taste for vocal music--opera, leider, mass, cantata, you name it, I don't love it (yet). Yet, of course I respect, and sometimes enjoy, the tremendous skill, craft, and creativity of this genre. Composers whose greatest work tends to lie in these realms, such as Wagner, I therefore tend to "respect but not love."

Also, I've yet to get into large-scale Romantic or later symphonic works, which is a stumbling block for Bruckner and Mahler. My entry point for a composer tends to be the chamber works. Thus, I could ease into the Shostakovich, Schumann, and Brahms through my preferred genres such as string quartet or piano trio. Good strategy for getting into a new composer.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

DebussyDoesDallas said:


> Another way to look at it is not which composer, but which genre. For instance, I've yet to develop a taste for vocal music--opera, leider, mass, cantata, you name it, I don't love it (yet). Yet, of course I respect, and sometimes enjoy, the tremendous skill, craft, and creativity of this genre. Composers whose greatest work tends to lie in these realms, such as Wagner, I therefore tend to "respect but not love."
> 
> Also, I've yet to get into large-scale Romantic or later symphonic works, which is a stumbling block for Bruckner and Mahler. My entry point for a composer tends to be the chamber works. Thus, I could ease into the Shostakovich, Schumann, and Brahms through my preferred genres such as string quartet or piano trio. Good strategy for getting into a new composer.


Haydn's Creation is what got me into vocal music - try that piece out, or his The Seasons . If you're into Haydnesque wit, masterful craftsmanship and excellent contrapuntal writing, you can't go wrong with these pieces. After discovering Haydn's vocal music, I moved on to Mozart (the Requiem in particular), Michael Haydn, Handel (the Messiah, for example), Telemann (his Passion settings), Bach (Mass in B minor, Christmas Oratorio), Rimsky-Korsakov (The Tsar's Bride, also highly recommended), Schubert's Lieder, etc. and can say that I'm a fan of the vocal genre (moreso in sacred works or Lieder than in opera, though). I still need some time for opera to really 'sink in', even though The Creation does contain many operatic elements.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Bruckner
Mahler
Richard Strauss
Haydn
Verdi
Schoenberg


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I suspect that many people here are so anxious to get in a dig at a composer they don' t like that they are willing to imply that they respect him/her without actually doing so.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I guess it would be Haydn for me. Sure, he wrote some nice string quartets, but otherwise he seems kinda rendundant because of Mozart. But you can't not respect him for his influence.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I can't think of any reason not to respect all composers. But there are plenty of composers whose music I wouldn't mind never hearing again.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Dim7 said:


> I guess it would be Haydn for me. Sure, he wrote some nice string quartets, but otherwise he seems kinda rendundant because of Mozart. But you can't not respect him for his influence.


I can't seem to get the argument that Haydn is redundant because of Mozart - these are very different composers, maybe you have not heard much of Haydn's music?


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

An interesting idea, but I can't help but read this as merely, "Composers you don't love". I say that because I don't believe any of us are in a position to say we don't *respect* a great composer. Sure, we may not like or love a composer's music, but how would one go about not respecting a great composer? This may just be me, I respect anyone who can competently play an instrument, on the basis of talent and/or skill. How on earth could I not respect a composer? Maybe it's because I'm a music laymen and I'm in awe of the people who play, interpret, and compose the music I love.

Edit: I see Bulldog has beat me to this thought! :tiphat:


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Add John Cage to my "respect but don't love" list - I can see what he's doing, there's some good stuff but I don't love it. There are plenty of composers I have no respect for - I think there's little redeeming quality in what they've written - but like violadude above I'm a horrible, venal person


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't think I actually disrespect or despise any composer, but I don't really "respect" most composers I don't like. I just don't get the appeal, or what's so impressive about them.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I can't seem to get the argument that Haydn is redundant because of Mozart - these are very different composers, maybe you have not heard much of Haydn's music?


Yes. The relationship of Haydn's music to Beethoven's is clear-the humor, the peasant-like brusqueness.

Mozart, no.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I can't seem to get the argument that Haydn is redundant because of Mozart - these are very different composers, maybe you have not heard much of Haydn's music?


Plenty of SQ's, symphonies, cello & trumpet concerto... I can only say that Mozart fulfills my Classical era needs better than Haydn.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I respect what Bruckner was attempting to accomplish, but I do not love his music.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

My original post was badly worded. What I really mean was composers you recognize as _great_, but don't love. I suppose I _respect_ G.P. Telemann and Nikolai Medtner as capable craftsmen, but I neither consider them great nor like their music.

Tchaikovsky, on the other hand, I do believe was a great composer, even though I mostly don't like his music.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> My original post was badly worded. What I really mean was composers you recognize as _great_, but don't love. I suppose I _respect_ G.P. Telemann and *Nikolai Medtner as capable craftsmen*, but I neither consider them great nor like their music.
> 
> Tchaikovsky, on the other hand, I do believe was a great composer, even though I mostly don't like his music.


I can't see how the term 'respect' and 'capable craftsman' can go together - it is a real insult to a genius like Medtner. If you don't like his music, then that's ok, but to dismiss him as a 'capable craftsman' is, imho, unfounded.

For the record, I said I didn't like Debussy or Ravel much - yet I recognise that both are stellar creators of international significance who wrote heaps of excellent music. Yes, I respect their work, but I don't enjoy it much


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

double postpostpostpost


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Tchaikovsky
Bruckner
Haydn 
Beethoven
Saint-Saëns 
Chopin
Telemann
Mendelssohn
Schumann

and I have a love-hate relationship with Ralph Vaughan Williams


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> My original post was badly worded. What I really mean was composers you recognize as _great_, but don't love. I suppose I _respect_ G.P. Telemann and Nikolai Medtner as capable craftsmen, but I neither consider them great nor like their music.
> 
> Tchaikovsky, on the other hand, I do believe was a great composer, even though I mostly don't like his music.


I definitely consider G. P. Telemann as great - he had masterful command of instrumental colour and, despite the often repeated criticism of his music being 'superficial', he has many sublime and profound moments in his music, imo.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Verdi
Faure.....


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> Verdi
> Faure.....


I'm a diehard Faure fan but I can easily see why someone would not like his music. It is melodically very heavy and introspective in way that is not very accessible


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm at least glad to see Schumann getting so much "respect". Personally, I love his music so much I actually have a hard time understanding how anyone can't love it. I guess that puts me in the penalty box, eh?


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> I'm at least glad to see Schumann getting so much "respect". Personally, I love his music so much I actually have a hard time understanding how anyone can't love it. I guess that puts me in the penalty box, eh?


I haven't listened to much of his piano music. Could you recommend me some to change my mind? I have trouble with his orchestral music because of the orchestration; I don't like Fauré's orchestral music for the same reason.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Vesteralen said:


> I'm at least glad to see Schumann getting so much "respect". Personally, I love his music so much I actually have a hard time understanding how anyone can't love it. I guess that puts me in the penalty box, eh?


I love him, too--but even I get slightly annoyed when I think of his imprudence about his marriage. I really think he ought to have waited the extra day.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Piwikiwi said:


> I haven't listened to much of his piano music. Could you recommend me some to change my mind? I have trouble with his orchestral music because of the orchestration; I don't like Fauré's orchestral music for the same reason.


Thank you for asking. So many people stop at the symphonies. They really miss out on the real Schumann - the piano music, the piano quartet and quintet, so many of the songs.

Solo piano music usually bores me, but Schumann's hardly ever does. For me, the best of the best are the Fantasy Op. 17, the second sonata, and the Kreisleriana. The Novelleten and the Symphonic Etudes are right up there as well.

Sorry for temporarily derailing the thread. There is probably a better place for this discussion.

On topic, I have nothing to add, because my "Composer X" could be someone else's Schumann.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Piwikiwi said:


> I'm a diehard Faure fan but I can easily see why someone would not like his music. It is melodically very heavy and introspective in way that is not very accessible


I think I should try to clarify something. (Note: I realize that I do a poor job of explaining myself. I recently had a person totally misinterpreting what I said in another thread.)

I have mentioned this before in other threads over the years I have been here. One of the results of my training and experiences as a musician is that it has taught me to recognize great music even if I personally dislike it. Faure is a good example of this. He is an outstanding composer. I know it.

Why do I dislike Faure? I do not know why. I remember performing the _Requiem_. I was bored to death. But this does not meant that this is bad music or meant to insult all the fine people who enjoy and find meaning in the music of Faure.

I think that is the point of the OP. That no matter how great a composer is he will not connect with everyone. And there is nothing wrong with that.

So do not worry about me and Faure on.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I can't see how the term 'respect' and 'capable craftsman' can go together - it is a real insult to a genius like Medtner. If you don't like his music, then that's ok, but to dismiss him as a 'capable craftsman' is, imho, unfounded.
> 
> For the record, I said I didn't like Debussy or Ravel much - yet I recognise that both are stellar creators of international significance who wrote heaps of excellent music. Yes, I respect their work, but I don't enjoy it much


Opinions of composers' merit are bound to differ. I've given Medtner a fair hearing and I just don't think his music is that good. We can't all believe every composer was great.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I respect Stravinsky as a ground-breaker, but love his music? No way!


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

OK it is Schoenberg for me. Respect yes but love no. Maybe I've just not heard enough of the right Schoenberg for me. But in my collection I have similar amounts of Berg and Schoenberg and love nearly every piece by Berg, but not so the Schoenberg. I tend to think of Schoenberg as too intellectual, whereas Berg just a romantic at heart. But I am far from giving up on Schoenberg!


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

LancsMan said:


> I tend to think of Schoenberg as too intellectual, whereas Berg just a romantic at heart.


Hey, I was in the same boat at one time. For me, it was Schoenberg's melodic writing - it felt too jagged to me. With time, my views have changed and I hope yours will, too. Schoenberg is really expressive and extroverted once you get used to him.

Keep trying! You'll get there.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

LancsMan said:


> OK it is Schoenberg for me. Respect yes but love no. Maybe I've just not heard enough of the right Schoenberg for me. But in my collection I have similar amounts of Berg and Schoenberg and love nearly every piece by Berg, but not so the Schoenberg. I tend to think of Schoenberg as too intellectual, whereas Berg just a romantic at heart. But I am far from giving up on Schoenberg!


Both composers had elements of the intellectual (Berg was fond of palindromes and extra-musical codes, Schoenberg of canons, both of dense counterpoint) and the romantic (both were wonderful song composers whose lyricism affects all of their work and firm believers in self-expression).

I think some people find Berg's more frequently triadic harmonic language and thicker orchestration reminds them more of earlier music. Schoenberg's music also tends to be more rigorously contrapuntal in the sense that all of the lines are distinguished from each other as active participants.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I respect Handel, composer of Messiah, Giulio Cesare and Semele, but I do not love his music like I do that of J.S. Bach.


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