# Varese Vs Varese Vs Varese Vs Varese



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Early, middle, late or very late Edgard? , 1883- 1965.

Which do you prefer?

And do you think the dissection of his musical life into four (that's move than Beethoven!), distinct periods holds water? 

I mean, is it just a simplistic formulation or was his career actually so cleanly divisible into three? 

i.e. 

1.pre 1915 and moving to the US
2. 1915 to 1928
3. 1928 to when he began exploring electronic music
4. and post 1950 when he began has last creative period


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

1915-1928. 

Music like "Poeme Electronique" just doesn't really do anything for me...but "Ameriques" and stuff like that is spectacular.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I mean, is it just a simplistic formulation or was his career actually so cleanly divisible into three?
> 
> i.e.
> 
> ...


Nice maths, A+ for your midyear exam.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Nice maths, A+ for your midyear exam.


Thanks, Maths was always my best subject.

I'm exploring the little known quantum theory of demonstration that "cleanly divisible into three", using probability quantum mechanics is actually four spaces in time....................:devil:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I find Varese's work in each period of roughly equal quality.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Thanks, Maths was always my best subject.
> 
> I'm exploring the little known quantum theory of demonstration that "cleanly divisible into three", using probability quantum mechanics is actually four spaces in time....................:devil:


Is it anything like the famous equation 2+2=5?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^Yes, I do believe that is part of the solution. Sounds like your skilled in the area too.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I find Varese's work in each period of roughly equal quality.


Thanks for your comment, so that would include the earlier period when most of his compostions were destroyed in a Berlin Warehouse fire during WW1, I guess.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^Yes, I do believe that is part of the solution. Sounds like your skilled in the area too.


Oh I'm a bit of a novice really, but you sound like you have a PhD in that area of science....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Thanks for your comment, so that would include the earlier period when most of his compostions were destroyed in a Berlin Warehouse fire during WW1, I guess.


Are any audio recordings of the sounds of the fire available to purchase?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Oh I'm a bit of a novice really, but you sound like you have a PhD in that area of science....


Preeminent, equalled by none and good at blackjack too.........


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Are any audio recordings of the sounds of the fire available to purchase?


You would have heard the fire sirens in Varese work - I think he may have been recreating nightmarish memories.....


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Infact listen at about 3:40 and you will heard the fire sirens...........
Ameriques


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

So what about Antheil?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I like it - Ah so he was the one with Hedy Lamarr inventing spread spectrum....

I can hear influences towards Zappa's work here. Antheil had quite some life!


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

Wot, no poll?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Good Idea, see what I can do lol

which would you vote for ?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

Er, well, I have to confess I've never knowingly heard any from any period, so I'll have to check it out!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Ok - here is some more for you then to check out- with more sirens too! love those Sirens.......

Edgard Varese - Ionisation


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

You have to admit, when Frank Zappa was worshiping him from afar, the love sent from a kid from Cucamonga must have been what sent his mind spiraling into unknown heights.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

My favorite Varese works are Hyperprism and Ionisation. Do those fit in the same period?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

To answer the OP, I have to say that Edgar Varèse just shows how gravely lacking Edgard Varese was!
My votes go to Octandre, Ionisation and Density 21.5.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> To answer the OP, I have to say that Edgar Varèse just shows how gravely lacking Edgard Varese was!
> My votes go to Octandre, Ionisation and Density 21.5.


But you still vote for his music ?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> You have to admit, when Frank Zappa was worshiping him from afar, the love sent from a kid from Cucamonga must have been what sent his mind spiraling into unknown heights.


You think so - I'm not so sure. However, I have seen copies (reproductions) of the the letter Zappa sent to Varese in which Zappa outlines some of his compositional thoughts as a young learning composer. From memory I don't think he got a reply.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> My favorite Varese works are Hyperprism and Ionisation. Do those fit in the same period?


Ionisation was from around 1930 (period 3) and Hyperprism in the early 1920's (period 2).


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> But you still vote for his music ?


Are you kidding me, EddieRUKiddingVarese? I was making a joke about the lack of accent ('e' grave or è grave) on some spellings of Varèse (or Varese; or indeed Edgar or Edgard). Ergo, when I said 'how gravely lacking' Edgard Varese was I was referring to the lack of è-grave. 
So, my vote for Varèse (with accent è grave) I hereby solemnly and gravely do bestow on his works Octandre, Ionisation and Density 21.5. Er, I mean, Densité 21,5.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> You think so - I'm not so sure. However, I have seen copies (reproductions) of the the letter Zappa sent to Varese in which Zappa outlines some of his compositional thoughts as a young learning composer. From memory I don't think he got a reply.


I was being facetious. 

Seriously, I like what he does with an orchestra, so if I had to pick, I'd say 1915 to 1928. But I like pretty much all that I've heard. I have Chailly's "complete works," and several other recordings, but there's probably something I haven't encountered yet.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Are you kidding me, EddieRUKiddingVarese? I was making a joke about the lack of accent ('e' grave or è grave) on some spellings of Varèse (or Varese; or indeed Edgar or Edgard). Ergo, when I said 'how gravely lacking' Edgard Varese was I was referring to the lack of è-grave.
> So, my vote for Varèse (with accent è grave) I hereby solemnly and gravely do bestow on his works Octandre, Ionisation and Density 21.5. Er, I mean, Densité 21,5.


Forgive me for my lack of attention (or kidding), is very early in the morning here .... You are quite correct re: the various spelling's of Varèse name and for pointing out the "gravely lacking" è in my post.

I like your votes - all nice pieces Octandre, Ionisation and Densité 21,5

I particular like Amériques.

Varèse insisted that music is both a science and an art, so i will be more careful in future


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> I was being facetious.
> 
> Seriously, I like what he does with an orchestra, so if I had to pick, I'd say 1915 to 1928. But I like pretty much all that I've heard. I have Chailly's "complete works," and several other recordings, but there's probably something I haven't encountered yet.


Understood and point taken :lol:. The letter is an interesting thing thou too.

Good choice 1915 to 1928, some great works in this period including: Amériques, Hyperprism, Offrandes, Octandre, and Intégrales.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Forgive me for my lack of attention


Nothing to forgive, no worries. This forum gets quite intense I've noticed, and the least 'word out of place' seems to create ripples of anxiety and recrimination. Let's stay cool and focused, I'm sure we all have insightful things to say. I'll tell you what, I'm learning a great bunch of stuff on this forum. Love it.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

*Varèse, Varèse, Varèse & Varèse (deceased) - trailblazer in sound blocks*



EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Early, middle, late or very late Edgard?


Trick question, eh?

When EV was _middle_-aged (age 50 in 1933) he was in the midst of writing what would become my favorite work of his - ECUATORIAL.

ECUATORIAL was the first composition to integrate electronic sounds within an acoustic instrumental ensemble. Therefore this piece is _early_ with respect to electronic instruments' evolution in the 20th century and onwards.

It can also be _late_ Varese because Edgard revised (by 1961) the initial ensemble to replace 2 theremins with ondes Martenot and amplify the role of the male bass voice via 8 solo male singers.

So there we have it in a singular Varese opus - the early, the middle & the late! 

And now ... on with the ondes!










Take that monsieur Olivier - Edgard beat the livin' Turangalila outta ya with his Popol Vuh.

ECUATORIAL uses the Popol Vuh to describe a tribe of Maya Quiché Indians lost in the mountains. The incantatory musical fervor of ECUATORIAL is why it's my favorite Varese utterance.

I "vote" for the period #3 in the OP's division.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Excellent observations - A vote for period three with an impressive knowledge of EV works!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Prodromides said:


> Trick question, eh?
> 
> When EV was _middle_-aged (age 50 in 1933) he was in the midst of writing what would become my favorite work of his - ECUATORIAL.
> 
> ...


Ps also liked the vs *Varèse (deceased)* touch...


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Ok - here is some more for you then to check out- with more sirens too! love those Sirens.......


Link didn't work, but I found it nevertheless...and I can see now where Zappa got his inspiration for "We Can Shoot You" (and other tracks on _Uncle Meat_) from






I think, on the basis of this one piece, that it makes good interlude 'music' but I'm not convinced of its prolonged appeal....

....but I've not stopped listening


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Uncle Meat one of my favorite Zappa works - good choice and your correct, Varese music is definitely where Zappa got his chops!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Varese Varese Varese, you can't go wrong


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