# Getting into Bach



## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

It seems like everyone is always praising Bach. I have never liked his music, and just cannot seem to get into it (aside from the Brandenburg Concertos). I am not sure if it is his style, the whole everybody praising him thing, or what. Can anyone give me some tips on getting into Bach's music? Thanks in advance!


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

chrisco97 said:


> It seems like everyone is always praising Bach. I have never liked his music, and just cannot seem to get into it (aside from the Brandenburg Concertos). I am not sure if it is his style, the whole everybody praising him thing, or what. Can anyone give me some tips on getting into Bach's music? Thanks in advance!


Goldberg variations with Glenn Gould.

If you want something very accessible, try the Keyboard concertos, especially nos. 1 and 5


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

What do you like about the Brandenburgs? What have you listened to that you don't like?


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

*@schuberkovich:* Thanks for the suggestions! I will check them out. 

*@ahammel:* I am not sure exactly what is I like about the Brandenburgs...I just do (I know that does not help at all). Regarding what I have listened to that I did not like, just his stuff in general...I am thinking it has something to do with the era (Baroque)...I am not a fan of the harpsichord (I am a pianist and a harpsichord reminds me of an out of tune piano), or the organ (sounds depressing to me), which both are found in most Bach I have heard. But then again, I really enjoy Vivaldi. I confuse my own self in this situation. xD


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

chrisco97 said:


> *@schuberkovich:* Thanks for the suggestions! I will check them out.
> 
> *@ahammel:* I am not sure exactly what is I like about the Brandenburgs...I just do (I know that does not help at all). Regarding what I have listened to that I did not like, just his stuff in general...I am thinking it has something to do with the era (Baroque)...I am not a fan of the harpsichord (I am a pianist and a harpsichord reminds me of an out of tune piano), or the organ, which both are found in most Bach I have heard. But then again, I really enjoy Vivaldi. I confuse my own self in this situation. xD


Try it played on a piano, maybe?


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

Still not my favourite thing (did not listen to it all), but it is better in my opinion. I do think it has to do with the instruments of the Baroque era, because I do find a lot of Bach's works enjoyable, I just do not like the harpsichord or the organ. Maybe that is what ruins it for me...I am also learning how to play one of Bach's pieces on the piano at the moment, and I am really enjoying it.

--
*Edit:* Currently listening to Bach's first keyboard concerto and am loving it so far.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I was the same way in the beginning. For me, it just took repeated listening and it eventually just clicked. I used to listen to the Well-Tempered Clavier over and over again trying to grow fond of his style and it eventually worked. I knew I was listening to greatness but maybe it just took me time to learn to appreciate his complex contrapuntal style.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Well, you might try my favourite works - Capriccio BWV 992 and Lautenwerk Suite BWV 996.

Best regards, Dr


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I very much appreciate your help guys! I will be sure to try everything you all have mentioned.

*@Dustin:* I will try that out. It was like that with *Beethoven's Grosse Fuge* for me. I initially did not like it (it in fact gave me a headache lol), but after listening to it over and over, it became one of my favourite pieces.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Before writing off J.S. Bach, spend a little time perusing his organ works, too. I think he was at his best for composing for the organ, after all he was a prolific organist, too.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

Personally I dislike the organ, but that is something I want to get into...I think that would help a lot with getting into Bach.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

chrisco97 said:


> Personally I dislike the organ, but that is something I want to get into...I think that would help a lot with getting into Bach.


I don't go for the organ. But Bach is still on my list of the three greatest composers. The St Matthew Passion is one of the greatest ever compositions written. Staggering in its genius!


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I have actually have not ever heard the St Matthew Passion in it's entirety. I have only heard parts of it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

chrisco97 said:


> Personally I dislike the organ, but that is something I want to get into...I think that would help a lot with getting into Bach.


Don't like the organ? It may be curable. Try this:


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

What about the _Violin Concertos_. The style is similar to that of the Brandenburg Concertos. These two are the most famous:





, Double Concerto





, A minor concerto BWV 1041


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

chrisco97 said:


> I have actually have not ever heard the St Matthew Passion in it's entirety. I have only heard parts of it.


It is certainly a lot to take in at one go. I remember the first time I ever heard it. I knew my wife loved the work and bought the records for her for a birthday - Karl Richter's 1958 recording. When the first chorus started I knew I was in the presence of a supreme masterpiece. The greatest work ever written? Certainly right up there with them.

Try the first chorus and see the way it builds on your senses.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

Thanks, I will try it!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Mass in B Minor.

How to get into Bach is a big question. My own advice: pick any piece from any genre and listen, the magic will touch you. Okay, maybe that's a little dramatic.

If you like the Brandenburg Concertos, then listen also to the Orchestral Suites, and all of the harpsichord, violin, etc. concertos. The partitas are excellent, Goldberg Variations [as mentioned before] are exquisite, etc., etc.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

Looks like I have a good bit of Bach to check out! Thanks guys.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

The Magnificat is fast and fun, if you want to start with a choral work that isn't nearly so overwhelming as the Passions.

Jeremy Summerly with the Oxford Camerata is my prefered recording.


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## Marisol (May 25, 2013)

chrisco97 said:


> It seems like everyone is always praising Bach. I have never liked his music, and just cannot seem to get into it (aside from the Brandenburg Concertos). I am not sure if it is his style, the whole everybody praising him thing, or what. Can anyone give me some tips on getting into Bach's music? Thanks in advance!


One can think of Bach's music as some main melody with harmony behind it but Bach's music is basically contrapuntal music, I think it is best to approach appreciation for Bach from this perspective.

You could start with the 2 and 3 part inventions or the Goldberg variations for keyboard, the violin and viola da gamba sonatas and some trio sonatas.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

If you don't like organ, then try this instead:






What I like about Bach is that his music can be played on any instrument: the beauty lies in the structure of the music itself rather than the orchestration. I find his works for solo violin to be a bit shrill and one-dimensional to my liking after a movement or two. But no problem: I simply got hold of recordings where they are played on guitar instead. And indeed, you could play his work on ukulele and penny whistle and it would still sound good.

Further recommendations: I have always liked his flute concertos; they seem quite accessible to me. Much of his choral work also goes down fairly easily, though I find that at least with this, it is a good idea to get hold of somewhat "authentic" performances, using instruments used at the time, and boys' voices where so specified instead of screeching female sopranos.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm a misogynist, I give you this:






Now if that doesn't convert you to Bach, nothing will.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Bach took me 20 years to prepare myself to like. It has a surface appeal sometimes, but that isn't its real value.


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

I second the Mass in B Minor. I have loved that work for years, long before I listened to any other Bach. Now, I listen to everything. Try the two great Passions, also, and if you discover that they speak to you, there is a miraculous body of Cantatas that seal the deal.


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

brianvds said:


> If you don't like organ, then try this instead:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marvelous! Is this from a movie or documentary about Bach? This is a GREAT example of the sublime cantatas.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Muddy said:


> Marvelous! Is this from a movie or documentary about Bach? This is a GREAT example of the sublime cantatas.


I think it is just that rarest of rare things: a classical music video. Classical musicians really should make more of those.

And yes, that cantata is indeed sublime, as are most of the others (some are not sublime; merely very, very good.)


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## Aquos (May 26, 2013)

The Cantatas!!! And the B minor Mass....


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## RussianIvan (Jun 30, 2013)

For me Bach begun with famous organ pieces (toccatas, preludes and fugues).

Then followed piano pieces (English suites and piano concetos) performed by Richter.

About a year ago I have become (and still am) really a huge fan of Bach after listening to the Art of Fugue. I've started with an orchestrated version conducted by Marriner, which, in my opinion is rather a popularized Bach. A wonderful "serious" performance of Art of Fugue is, in my opionion, a performance of the first, the 4th and the 14th contrapuncti by Glenn Gould (on piano, not on organ). I do not like his versions of the other contrapuncti, perhaps, he simply did not like the other ones)))


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

I would recommend you veer towards whatever genres you tend to enjoy. 

If you like - then try...

sacred music - B minor mass
Concerti - the 3 violin concerti
Lieder - cantatas
solo piano - partitas; Golderberg Variations
epic works that require an entire evening - St. Matthew Passion

And, in general, you kind of have to listen to the cello suites at least once.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

One of my favorite pieces by Bach is his Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. I don't know how you feel about organ music, so here is an orchestral transcription. I highly recommend it


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

chrisco97 said:


> *@Dustin:* I will try that out. It was like that with *Beethoven's Grosse Fuge* for me. I initially did not like it (it in fact gave me a headache lol), but after listening to it over and over, it became one of my favourite pieces.


Well looks like all you have to do is just listen to the music more then, no surprise there really. Listening closely is better than than asking on forums for a special key to something, the key is inside your head. Most of these threads aren't really asking for information more just wanting a short cut specific to themselves. But music isn't about catering to one individual even though these threads always say that, it's more the other way round, the individual letting the music cater for them, in other words they have to make an effort with the music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

My advice is not to push it. For me, I had to come to Bach, it wasn't a matter of Bach coming to me. It took me 20 years to get to the point where the blinds flew up and the sun shone in.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Yeh, it's about the music not about the listener. You have to go to the music, not the music to you.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

You've been given some excellent suggestions here, and I recommend the cantatas in particular if the larger choral works are too much to take in one listen.

Also, harpsichord is definitely an acquired taste, but I'm curious if you know which harpsichord recordings you've heard? It doesn't sound like an out of tune piano to me.  (That said, if piano works better for you, stick with piano for a while.)


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I play piano, I love it. It is my favourite instrument. Probably always will be. Recently I have grown to love the harpsichord (especially when it is solo harpsichord). However, in some pieces, it still feels like an afterthought if that makes sense. It does not seem to fit some pieces I have heard it in (The Four Seasons for example).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

chrisco97 said:


> I play piano, I love it. It is my favourite instrument. Probably always will be. Recently I have grown to love the harpsichord (especially when it is solo harpsichord). However, in some pieces, it still feels like an afterthought if that makes sense. It does not seem to fit some pieces I have heard it in (The Four Seasons for example).


However, in Bach (he didn't have a piano y'know) the ORGAN is where it's at! I just got the cheapie download of his organ works played by Anthony Newman (yes, $9.49 believe it or not). Listening to the "Wedge" now. What could be better than this?


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> One of my favorite pieces by Bach is his Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. I don't know how you feel about organ music, so here is an orchestral transcription. I highly recommend it


Oh dear Lord, I love this, and I am only 3 minutes in! Thanks so much!


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## Muddy (Feb 5, 2012)

Cosmos, that is one of the most incredible performances that I have ever heard! Again, thank you!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> One of my favorite pieces by Bach is his Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. I don't know how you feel about organ music, so here is an orchestral transcription. I highly recommend it
> 
> ::Video removed to save loading time for other members::


A lot of people seem to like these orchestral transcriptions of Bach's great organ works. While they usually don't suit me, I have to admit, this is one of the best I've heard.

There's a _ghastly_ orchestral transcription of the BWV 578 Fugue floating out there. This one is very good, though!


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Start with the concerti. (This goes also for other composers as a start). Start with the modern instrument versions. They will be the easiest on the ears when you start with Bach. Then I recommend these cd's:





















The concert for 2 violins is my favourite. I guarnantee the slow movement is love at first sight.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

chrisco97 said:


> I play piano, I love it. It is my favourite instrument. Probably always will be. Recently I have grown to love the harpsichord (especially when it is solo harpsichord). However, in some pieces, it still feels like an afterthought if that makes sense. It does not seem to fit some pieces I have heard it in (The Four Seasons for example).


Harpsichord as a continuo instrument definitely sounds different from harpsichord as a solo instrument since they serve a different function, but I think you'll get used to that. Maybe in the future you will get some enjoyment out of listening to fortepiano (historical piano) recordings of the classical era, or even pianoforte recordings of romantic recordings. They're not as 'strong' as a modern grand piano, but they're light touch works quite well for some composers (Mozart in particular) and they are often very colorful instruments. Just something to consider looking into in the future.  By the way, contrary to what some will suggest you don't have to choose between harpsichord and piano recordings, plenty of people enjoy hearing recordings of the same works with both instruments. I'm a historical instrument nut myself, but not everyone feels that way and that's just fine.

In any case, I suggest this recording of the harpsichord concertos as an excellent start for you. Here's one of the concertos since there are no samples on the site. I think that as a keyboardist you'll find the contrasting styles between the four keyboards (and the chaos) fun.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Novelette said:


> A lot of people seem to like these orchestral transcriptions of Bach's great organ works. While they usually don't suit me, I have to admit, this is one of the best I've heard.
> 
> There's a _ghastly_ orchestral transcription of the BWV 578 Fugue floating out there. This one is very good, though!


I have to admit, I really like Webern's transcription of the Ricercar a 6 from _A Musical Offering_, and the Stokowski version of BWV565 has nostalgia value for me.


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

The tone on the harpsichord is adjustable, and miking may make a difference. Try different recordings. I hardly listen to the solo works anymore, but I do listen to the harpsichord concertos and at least I like Handel's organ concertos.

Another way to get into it is to listen to sonatas. There are cellos solo works but also cello with harpsichord.

Bach actually never beat Telemann and Vivaldi for me. Those two composed a vast catalog of works for wind instruments. Bach has some reconstructed oboe concertos.

Probably my favorite Bach works are those arranged for guitar, lute suites etc.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

Tero reminded me, you might very much like hearing Bach's work for lautenwerk (lute-harpsichord), an instrument that Bach designed, in fact! It's a harpsichord with lute strings, giving it the soft, beautiful quality of a lute: At least Three recordings are available, though you may want to note that Farr's has mixed reviews and ask for some opinions here. In any case, all but the Hill recording have samples available, and you can hear Hill's entire album here. (Thank you YouTube!) Given the choice I would pick the Robert Hill recording, but listen to all three and see what you like.

Since you like the sound of harpsichords now you may find the pedal harpsichord recordings of Bach's organ works a suitable introduction to his organ works (alongside orchestrations, of course) because of the lighter sound of a harpsichord. This is a great example, and people also seem to like this one. Speaking of the trio sonatas, that might be a good start if you want to give his organ works a try on organ. They tend to be lighter, for lack of a better term, than some of his other organ material so they may not sound depressing to you. If you want an individual recording of the trio sonatas (as opposed to getting them as part of a box set) this recording is solid and would make a good start. I can't personally speak to the quality of this recording, but it has samples available on Amazon, which should let you see if these might work for you.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I love the fortepiano as well, especially when it is being played for Mozart's works. It fits it very well.

Last night, I had nothing to do and decided I was going to listen to some Bach. I bought this set a while back that has a Bach CD. It has around ten or so tracks on it, so it is kind of a "greatest hits" collection. I decided I would listen to this. I got chills from most of the tracks I listened to. It was amazing. I have never liked Bach's music like I did last night. I am now very intrigued to listen to some of his other music.

BTW, this was the set I was speaking of: http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Class...79&sr=8-1&keywords=Masters+of+Classical+Music

The set is awesome. It is probably one of the best introductions to classical music available.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2013)

Bach is a composer that pays off quite handsomely if you put the time in. That said, there is much that is readily enjoyable. You don't like the solo harpsichord sound. I can sympathize - I don't like it as much either. I actually prefer the solo keyboard works on a modern piano. Murray Perahia has some excellent recordings - his recording of the Goldberg Variations alone is one of my top CDs.

If you like the Brandenburg Concertos, try the Orchestral Suites. Also, try the violin concertos - so many great recordings out there, but my personal favorite is by Andrew Manze. But if you don't like period instruments, then Julia Fischer has a very nice recent recording.

I didn't initially like organ works, but now I love them. I think part of my fascination is what can be done by a single individual with a single instrument. 

There are so many other works I would recommend, but for someone starting out, I will go easy. The cantatas are very nice, but a lot to take in. If you want to dip your feet in the water there, then you could either start with BWV 80, Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott, based on Martin Luther's chorale of the same name. Or you could go with a secular cantata, such as BWV 208, commonly known as the Hunt Cantata. Particularly, the movement entitled "Schafe koennen sicher weiden."

I hope you do come to enjoy Bach.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

You must have misunderstood me, I love solo harpsichord. It is when it is mixed together with other instruments I am still trying to take a liking to. Either way, thanks for the recommendations! I have been planning to listen to the Orchestral Suites and the Violin Concertos. Still having trouble with the organ though. I am starting to like it though. I love how I have heard Vivaldi and Saint Saens use it, and I loved the performance of Toccata and Fugue I heard last night.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

As I said earlier (my second post), try the trio sonatas on organ. They're more easily approachable than some of the other organ works. And the lute-harpsichord; even if you don't 'need' that to help you like Bach it is an awesome instrument and rewarding in itself. Given that you're having trouble with harpsichord mixed with other instruments I do recommend trying the recording I suggested earlier of harpsichord concertos. For that matter--and I can't _believe_ I missed this recommendation earlier!--the violin sonatas with harpsichord accompaniment are also easy to get into.


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

This piece, the attribution of which is disputed, nonetheless seems to me very much "Bachian" - and Marilyn Horne is gorgeous in it:


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I wasn't a fan of the harpsichord until I started to listen to HIP. The Brandenburg Concerti (the 5th) were what converted me, actually.

For his concerti, Cafe Zimmermann is one of my favorite HIP groups:
Here's an example for oboe d'amore (I love the sound!) BWV 1055 





And here they play is as a harpsichord concerto, see how you find it now! 





--------

I'll also highly second his cantatas, they are really great! They can be daunting sometimes (they are so many of them!), but they are not that long individually, so you get get acquainted with them one at a time.

Here, let me introduce you to a really short one, barely 3 min long! BWV 50


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## RussianIvan (Jun 30, 2013)

Try Furtwangler's version of Brandenburg 5, by the way! He plays piano himself there.

It is incredible! Completely non-HIP, extremely romanticised but, I like this perfomance the most. In fact, after listening to it, I can't stand anything else!

This performance, probably, explains, why the Brandenburg concertos were not performed in Bach's lifetime: they were just too... not even ahead of their time, but not completely fitting into any time.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I do not want to seem like I am going back on what I have said earlier, but I want to be perfectly honest here. I want to tell you all how I actually feel about Bach's music. 

I personally think it is okay, I do not hate it, but I do not love it either. There are some pieces I really enjoy, such as the Brandenburgs, the first violin concerto, and most of all, his slow movements. They are beautiful and relaxing. However, I do not love his music. It is not music I would wake up and say "Hey, let's listen to that!"...you know? I may for some of the slow movements though. :lol:

Is this because I much prefer emotional music over technical music? Is this because I do not like Bach's style? I do not know. It confuses me, and it is somewhat disappointing because of how most everyone else likes him. I want to like him, but it seems as if it is impossible for me to do so. When I hear people say how the Double Violin Concerto made them cry, and then I go to listen to it and it seems boring aside from the final movement (which I thought was pretty good), I feel like I know nothing about music. It is confusing also because of how much I love Vivaldi's music. I do find him to have an emotional side to his music though.

Some of Bach's music also seems to drag on for me, where as with Vivaldi's music, I am drawn in from the first note until the last. Now, I know because they are both from the same era of music does not mean they are exactly the same or I have to like one because I like the other, but it is still confusing.

I also wonder if I am expecting too much. Maybe I am going to the Double Violin Concerto and expecting to be moved the first time I hear it. With pieces like the Grosse Fugue, it took a few listens (3 or 4 I would say) before I loved it. But it is taking me 6, 7 or 8 listens to even like some of Bach's music the least little bit.

Maybe I just genuinely do not care for Bach's music. We all have composers we do not really care for, and ones we love. I guess Bach is just one of the ones I do not really care for.

I am unsure of what it is, and I would really love to get into Bach's music and be able to call him one of my favourites. Sorry if I am getting ridiculous with this whole trying to like Bach thing.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

chrisco97 said:


> I am unsure of what it is, and I would really love to get into Bach's music and be able to call him one of my favourites. Sorry if I am getting ridiculous with this whole trying to like Bach thing.


Well, maybe you just don't like Bach's music! Not to worry, that's legal in most states.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

Well, Chrisco, there's nothing wrong with that. Come back to Bach after a while and see if you like him more. In the meantime, I suggest exploring Handel along with Vivaldi. Oh, and check out the YouTube link I gave to the pieces for lute-harpsichord. Seriously, that instrument is awesome.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

Oh, I did. I LOVED it. I even want to buy the set of the works I loved it so much.

And yeah, I have never actually never listened to much of Handel's work aside from excerpts from _The Messiah_. I need to check him out. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

chrisco97 said:


> Oh, I did. I LOVED it. I even want to buy the set of the works I loved it so much.
> 
> And yeah, I have never actually never listened to much of Handel's work aside from excerpts from _The Messiah_. I need to check him out. Thanks for the suggestion!


Check out Water Music and Concerti Grossi Op.6. Awesome stuff.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

chrisco97 said:


> Oh, I did. I LOVED it. I even want to buy the set of the works I loved it so much.
> 
> And yeah, I have never actually never listened to much of Handel's work aside from excerpts from _The Messiah_. I need to check him out. Thanks for the suggestion!


I thought you might like that instrument. It really is something else...

Handel shares Vivaldi's gift for melody--and in his operas and oratorios at least--arguably exceeds his gift for drama, which is why I made the suggestion. (If you want to explore that territory let me know and I'll see if I can start you off with a few recommendations for aria/singer recital discs.) That said, yes, the Water Music (and Music for the Royal Fireworks) would be an excellent introduction to Handel. And the Concerti Grossi Op. 6.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I bought two of the Big Boxes (will post about that later on the _Latest Purchases_ thread) tonight, one of them being the _Big Summer Box_. It came with both the complete Music for the Royal Fireworks and the complete Water Music. I will be sure to give them a listen coming up. I will get back to you on if I want to go into that territory or not...be prepared as I am always loving to check out new composers.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

Fair enough. Make sure to let us know who the performers are, though. That _does_ make a difference and if it's a poor performance I'll hunt down a good one on YouTube if I have to.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I most definitely will. Thanks in advance...I appreciate your help!


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## fairbanks (Jun 25, 2014)

Violin Concertos 1042, 1043


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

It took me forever to learn to like Bach - now I love his music. My "key" was the esteemed Herr Otto Klemperer and the B minor mass, as well as the Matthäuspassion under his baton.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

You don't get Bach, Bach gets to you!

Pieces like these are hard to find, aren't they?


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