# Prefered Haydn Interpretations



## Triplets

My first exposure to Haydn recordings were the Bernstein recordings of the London and Paris Symphonies. They are wonderful and I have them on CD. My next exposure was to Neville Marriner, and the smaller forces and stylish playing seemed different from LB but also wonderful.
Then the Dorati set came, with first recordings of many of the Symphonies. The approach was 'big band' but the Orchestra was smaller than the NY Phil. I found myself listening mainly to the 'sturm und drag' works because they were unfamiliar.
The first HIPP recordings that I heard turned me off due to poorly tuned oboes and squally strings.
As playing standards improved in the HIPP movement through the years I enjoyed recordings by Kujiken and Goodman.
I bought the Fischer set with the Austro Hungarian Chamber Orchestra and have been listening to it quite a bit, sampling Symphonies from various times. It is small Orchestra non HIPP, more like Marriner only with a Continental flavor. I've enjoyed it. I can't say that any particular recording here would be my first choice, but they all enjoyable, andthe acoustic is warm with reverberation a plenty.
I also had bought a 20 CD set of Haitink recordings on Phillips that contains some Haydn and alternating the big band Concertgebouw with the smaller non HIP Chamber Orchestra makes me feel like I have come full circle back to Bernstein vs. Marriner.
So what do Haydn fanciers prefer? Big band with great Conductors like Bernstein, Szell, or Haitink? Chamber sized Orchestras playing modern instruments, a la Marriner or Fischer? HIPP?
Or how about HIPP Conductors leading Big bands?


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## ptr

Dunno if I'm a Haydn fancier, but I like his music well enough!
Generally I prefer smaller forces to traditional romantic orchestras, generally also HIP performances when it is Hayden with orchestra, opposed to his chamber music, don't really enjoy his piano works on modern grand's..

I was brought up on Dorati and he has a certain "Joie de vivre" with his band of Hungarian expat's (it's still my only complete set), today I mostly go for Brüggen, Kuijken and/or Minkowski (for no apparent reason I seem to prefer continental to UK performers  )..

/ptr


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## Ukko

I like a lot of Haydn symphony recordings, HIP and otherwise. My response is re the piano sonatas. Sokolov.


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## ptr

Ukko said:


> My response is re the piano sonatas. Sokolov.


I've always found Sokolov's mannerisms hard to digest, but I'll give him another chance!

/ptr


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## Ukko

ptr said:


> I've always found Sokolov's mannerisms hard to digest, but I'll give him another chance!
> 
> /ptr


One man's 'mannerisms' are another man's 'insight'.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Triplets said:


> My first exposure to Haydn recordings were the Bernstein recordings of the London and Paris Symphonies. They are wonderful and I have them on CD. My next exposure was to Neville Marriner, and the smaller forces and stylish playing seemed different from LB but also wonderful.
> Then the Dorati set came, with first recordings of many of the Symphonies. The approach was 'big band' but the Orchestra was smaller than the NY Phil. I found myself listening mainly to the 'sturm und drag' works because they were unfamiliar.
> The first HIPP recordings that I heard turned me off due to poorly tuned oboes and squally strings.
> As playing standards improved in the HIPP movement through the years I enjoyed recordings by Kujiken and Goodman.
> I bought the Fischer set with the Austro Hungarian Chamber Orchestra and have been listening to it quite a bit, sampling Symphonies from various times. It is small Orchestra non HIPP, more like Marriner only with a Continental flavor. I've enjoyed it. I can't say that any particular recording here would be my first choice, but they all enjoyable, andthe acoustic is warm with reverberation a plenty.
> I also had bought a 20 CD set of Haitink recordings on Phillips that contains some Haydn and alternating the big band Concertgebouw with the smaller non HIP Chamber Orchestra makes me feel like I have come full circle back to Bernstein vs. Marriner.
> So what do Haydn fanciers prefer? Big band with great Conductors like Bernstein, Szell, or Haitink? Chamber sized Orchestras playing modern instruments, a la Marriner or Fischer? HIPP?
> Or how about HIPP Conductors leading Big bands?


I'm a very big Haydn fan but I do not own as many interpretations as you do, therefore I cannot refer to all the sets you've mentioned (for eg. I'm largely unfamiliar with Dorati's interpretations, unfortunately). I generally prefer 'variety', so I would probably not go for a complete symphony set. I like sampling different Interpreters - some Hip ones which stand out are Solomons, Bruno Weil (although he seems to be 'too light' at times), Kuijken, Frans Brüggen, Harnoncourt and Goodman. What I've heard from Koopman was also very good. I have the Günther Herbig set of the London Symphonies which I find to be quite good, as well as his set of symphonies 6-8, which I find is also very well done and is recommended. I have some interpretations by Helmut Müller-Brühl on Naxos (54-57, 74-76) and Ward (26, 35, 49) which are stellar as well. I have Goodman for 70-72 and find that he's got a nice rhythmatic edge and makes the symphonies 'pack a punch' using rhythmatic edge, brisk tempi and a transparent orchestral sound.

Speaking of Haydn's quartets: I recently discovered the Berliner Streichquartett recordings of Op. 64 and I warmly recommend them to all fans of Haydn's quartets and of quartets in general, I find they're very good!


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## Handel

I prefer smaller orchestras for the earlier symphonies and bigger one for the London Symphonies, as they were intended for a bigger orchestra (40 to 60 players). 

I like the Hanover Band for the earlier symphonies. As for the later one, I like the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (led by Frans Brüggen) or the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra (led by Adam Fischer).


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## Vaneyes

Szell, Harnoncourt, Kuijken, St. Luke's Chamber Ens., Goodman, Litkov.:tiphat:


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## Heliogabo

Alfred Brendel's interpretation of the sonatas is marvellous...


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## hpowders

Bernstein/NY Philharmonic for the Paris Symphonies.

C Davis/Concertgebouw for the London Symphonies.

Beaux Arts Trio for the Keyboard Trios.


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## Mandryka

Ukko said:


> I like a lot of Haydn symphony recordings, HIP and otherwise. My response is re the piano sonatas. Sokolov.


Such strange performances! Have you heard any Beghin yet?


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## neoshredder

Pinnock for the 'Sturm und Drang'.


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## ToneDeaf&Senile

Odd to find this thread, since I've been on a Haydn symphony spree of sorts since yesterday. Listened to a CD containing symphonies 86 & 88 performed by the Orchestra of the 18th Century under Franz Bruggen and enjoyed it very much. Listened to a CD containing symphonies 45 "Farewell" and 60 "Il Distratto" performed by Concentus Musicus Wien under Nikolaus Harnoncourt which did nothing for me. At YouTube I watched and heard a favorite performance of *the 88th by the Vienna Philharmonic under Leonard Bernstein*, with its marvelous "encore" at the end.

As to preferences, I like the symphonies played by period bands, small modern ensembles and full modern symphonies equally well provided the performers have something to say.


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## DebussyDoesDallas

neoshredder said:


> Pinnock for the 'Sturm und Drang'.


I agree--Pinnock is essential for these symphonies. Desert island.

I have lots and lots of box sets and individual discs of Haydn symphonies, much of which I've yet to listen to. Just got some Goodman--I like that I can sometimes hear the harpsicord continuo. My favorite London set so far might be Jochum.

If I had to choose one complete set, I'd go for Fischer, mainly because some Dotari minuets are so slow I can't enjoy them.

My least favorites are Hogwood and Davies, though they still offer plenty to enjoy.

I have the Maerzendorfer set on LP. Fun discovering obscure performances from the very first complete recording,

I'm looking forward to getting the Goberman and Bruggen sets. Not like I need them--it'll take years to listen to and fully process all that I already have.


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## Itullian

hpowders said:


> Bernstein/NY Philharmonic for the Paris Symphonies.
> 
> C Davis/Concertgebouw for the London Symphonies.
> 
> Beaux Arts Trio for the Keyboard Trios.


No HIP?............................


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## Itullian

Davis, Bernstein, Beecham, Dorati, Klemperer

Macabe Sonatas

Kodaly Quartets

Beaux Arts, Trios


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## Revel

I only own a hodge-podge of Haydn symphonies, but the ones that stand out to me as being really well done are the Colin Davis "London" symphonies on Philips.


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## Bulldog

Colin Davis - Symphonies
Alfred Brendel - Piano Sonatas
Salomon Quartet - String Quartets
Rene Jacobs - Creation/Seasons


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## Haydn man

I feel for a complete set then Dorati is a great place to start. Consistent performances and recordings, it was rightly acclaimed as a landmark when first released.
Recently I have had the pleasure to enjoy some of the HIP recordings by Pinnock, Minkowski and Bruggen all of which I have enjoyed. I think the London Symphonies by Minkowski are a particularly fine set and would not hesitate to recommend them.
Good thing about Haydn, you get a lifetimes pleasure


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## Haydn man

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I'm a very big Haydn fan but I do not own as many interpretations as you do, therefore I cannot refer to all the sets you've mentioned (for eg. I'm largely unfamiliar with Dorati's interpretations, unfortunately). I generally prefer 'variety', so I would probably not go for a complete symphony set. I like sampling different Interpreters - some Hip ones which stand out are Solomons, Bruno Weil (although he seems to be 'too light' at times), Kuijken, Frans Brüggen, Harnoncourt and Goodman. What I've heard from Koopman was also very good. I have the Günther Herbig set of the London Symphonies which I find to be quite good, as well as his set of symphonies 6-8, which I find is also very well done and is recommended. I have some interpretations by Helmut Müller-Brühl on Naxos (54-57, 74-76) and Ward (26, 35, 49) which are stellar as well. I have Goodman for 70-72 and find that he's got a nice rhythmatic edge and makes the symphonies 'pack a punch' using rhythmatic edge, brisk tempi and a transparent orchestral sound.
> 
> Speaking of Haydn's quartets: I recently discovered the Berliner Streichquartett recordings of Op. 64 and I warmly recommend them to all fans of Haydn's quartets and of quartets in general, I find they're very good!


I shall make enquiries of those SQ's


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## HaydnBearstheClock

DebussyDoesDallas said:


> I agree--Pinnock is essential for these symphonies. Desert island.
> 
> I have lots and lots of box sets and individual discs of Haydn symphonies, much of which I've yet to listen to. Just got some Goodman--I like that I can sometimes hear the harpsicord continuo. My favorite London set so far might be Jochum.
> 
> If I had to choose one complete set, I'd go for Fischer, mainly because some Dotari minuets are so slow I can't enjoy them.
> 
> My least favorites are Hogwood and Davies, though they still offer plenty to enjoy.
> 
> I have the Maerzendorfer set on LP. Fun discovering obscure performances from the very first complete recording,
> 
> I'm looking forward to getting the Goberman and Bruggen sets. Not like I need them--it'll take years to listen to and fully process all that I already have.


Nice, nice . I've recently ordered Koopman's 44, 45 and 49 - should be an excellent listen. Here's Koopman's 44:






I have to admit though, Bruno Weil is excellent for this symphony as well. His final movement is just explosive.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Haydn man said:


> I shall make enquiries of those SQ's


Yes, really a great ensemble that's not too well known. They make wonderful versions of these quartets, imo . Very warm, fluid and graceful.


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## Albert7

Dorati for the complete symphony cycle. String quartets I am not sure yet. I do like Emerson String Quartet.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Haydn's oeuvre is so huge that one hardly knows where to begin.

*Symphonies*- Bernstein, Colin Davis, Beecham, Szell, Ernest Ansermet (Paris), Mackerras

*Die Schöpfung*- Herbert von Karajan, John Eliot Gardiner, Helmuth Rilling

*The Seasons*- Herbert von Karajan, Karl Böhm, René Jacobs, Beecham

*Masses*- Christopher Hogwood, John Eliot Gardiner, Richard Hickox

*Cello Concertos*- Mstislav Rostropovich

*String Quartets*- I like the Kodaly Quartet and the Lindsays

*Piano Trios*- Beaux Arts Trio

*Flute Trios*- Jean-Pierre Rampal, Isaac Stern, Mstislav Rostropovich

*Lieder*- Elly Ameling

*Opera:*

*Orlando Paladino*- Harnoncourt

*Armida*- Harnoncourt

*Orfeo ed Euridice*- Christopher Hogwood


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## Albert7

I haven't gotten a chance to hear the Kodaly Quartet cycle for the string quartets but I heard some people don't like them. I wonder why.


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## Weston

Recently I've settled on the Thomas Fey cycle of Haydn symphonies for no other reason than they just sound right to me. He's supposedly HIP but not in your face HIP. In lieu of Fey, I like Harnoncourt for any classic period work. Fey was a student of Harnoncourt, so that makes sense.


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## Triplets

Albert7 said:


> Dorati for the complete symphony cycle. String quartets I am not sure yet. I do like Emerson String Quartet.


Buchberg Quartet


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## Triplets

Weston said:


> Recently I've settled on the Thomas Fey cycle of Haydn symphonies for no other reason than they just sound right to me. He's supposedly HIP but not in your face HIP. In lieu of Fey, I like Harnoncourt for any classic period work. Fey was a student of Harnoncourt, so that makes sense.


I've heard a handful of the Fey set, and I'm not a fan. Some tempos and rhythms seem pretty arbitrary--fast then dolefully turgid-- but I haven't heard more than a couple of works, so i should reserve judgement.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I'd add Andreas Spering for The Creation (on Naxos) - excellent interpretation, imo. Wolfang Sawallisch and John Eliot Gardiner are also excellent for The Seasons, imo.


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## Albert7

Add in Abbado's rendition of the London Symphonies as a wonderful walk in the park for me.


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## ArtMusic

This special set of the Strum und Drang symphonies


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## HaydnBearstheClock

ArtMusic said:


> This special set of the Strum und Drang symphonies


What would you say makes this set one of the best, if not the best? Just curious .


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Albert7 said:


> I haven't gotten a chance to hear the Kodaly Quartet cycle for the string quartets but I heard some people don't like them. I wonder why.


The Kodaly's are very good, at least for Op. 71, 74 and 76. They have a thick, modern-instrument tone and a vibrato-friendly sound - also, very good playing. The recording quality may not be as 'clean' as with some more recent recordings, but still, the playing is high quality.


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## jflatter

I love Haydn's symphonies and I am a great fan of Colin Davis in this area. 

It's become very noticeable since Davis's death that there is very little live performances of Haydn's work in London. He seems to fallen out of fashion whilst we have wall to wall Mahler and the like (that's not a criticism of Mahler I hasten to add). I wonder if the traditional orchestras feel that they need a HIP band to play Haydn. If so, then that's a terrible shame. You also very rarely hear a Mozart symphony in London as well.


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## DebussyDoesDallas

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> What would you say makes this set one of the best, if not the best? Just curious .


Pinnock, hands down. Absolutely. Based my reading, there seems to be a relative consensus forming (of course with some dissenters) that this is the overall best set of Sturm and Drang. Sound quality, balance, tempo choices, energy, passion, torque--it's all there.

That being said, I do come across individual performances of some symphonies I like better (for instance, nothing will ever match the bristling brio and slamming momentous of Jerzy Maksymiuk's version of #48 Maria Teresa) but as a reference set, I consider it about as definitive as one can subjectively claim.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

This disc of Haydn sonatas by Hélène Couvert sounds very promising from the samples:

http://www.amazon.de/Joseph-Haydn-K...&qid=1426678435&sr=8-1&keywords=haydn+couvert


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## realdealblues

Bernstein's Sony recordings with the New York Philharmonic are top shelf. Both Paris and London are excellent. Lenny was one of the best when it came to Haydn and with you (the original poster) coming back to Bernstein's recordings I would take that as a sign you probably have realized that as well. Haydn was a lot like Bernstein and I think that's why all the love and fun and and musical jokes that you find in Haydn symphonies comes out so well.

Karajan was surprisingly good in the Paris Symphonies as was Harnoncourt.

Jochum and Davis are both great in the London Symphonies. 

Lots of others like Beecham, Szell and Klemperer recorded some excellent Haydn as well. While, I'm not a HIP guy for the most part I will say Bruggen was excellent in his Haydn recordings. Pinnock was also good in the Sturm und Drang symphonies as well.

For all the rest of the symphonies Antal Dorati is my go too.


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## DebussyDoesDallas

Bernstein conducting the finale of #88--with his eyebrows.


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## Bevo

I'm a HUGE fan of Haydn as well (he's who got me HARD CORE into Classical music). Even though I have not heard loads of different orchestras performing Haydn, I have heard my fair share, and I undoubtable prefer Fischer! Not only are they the intended sized orchestra for most of the symphonies, but I simply just prefer his interpretations best. In my personal opinion the Austro Hungarian Chamber Orchestra stresses the correct parts at the correct time. That doesn't necessarily mean that the part with the melody is or isn't prominent, but there are certain parts that are easily... overlooked by different instruments, or jumbled in the mass of players, and all of those parts are more clearly defined in most of Fischer and the Austro Hungarian Chamber Orchestra's performances.


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## hpowders

Weston said:


> Recently I've settled on the Thomas Fey cycle of Haydn symphonies for no other reason than they just sound right to me. He's supposedly HIP but not in your face HIP. In lieu of Fey, I like Harnoncourt for any classic period work. Fey was a student of Harnoncourt, so that makes sense.


I don't know. Fey can occasionally be "in your face" aggressive, but I like that.

HIP Haydn is wonderful because it really plays up the brusque, peasant-like, rough and ready aspects of Haydn's music.


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## hpowders

Once again, if you want to hear the Paris symphonies at their best, please try the Bernstein/NY Philharmonic set.
Among Bernstein's greatest performances.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

hpowders said:


> I don't know. Fey can occasionally be "in your face" aggressive, but I like that.
> 
> HIP Haydn is wonderful because it really plays up the brusque, peasant-like, rough and ready aspects of Haydn's music.


I also really enjoy Haydn's music Hip, especially for the Sturm und Drang symphonies, the Paris Symphonies and also The Creation and The Seasons - mostly because of the transparency, which brings out the depth of detail in Haydn's orchestration, as well as giving us a better idea of how Haydn might have wanted his music to sound.


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## Cheyenne

For the Paris symphonies, Bernstein; for the London Symphonies, Beecham, Jochum, Bernstein, Davis, Dorati, Scherchen and Szell are my favorite sets with modern instruments, and Walter, Rosbaud, Fricsay, Mackerras and Klemperer have a few good ones too (but no complete set). Harnoncourt and Kiujken are great for (partial) HIP performances. For the earlier symphonies, I pick with I like from Scherchen, Pinnock and Dorati, mostly.


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## hpowders

I have Kuijken in both the Paris and London Symphonies and he is very fine.

Bernstein, unfortunately did not repeat his success with the Paris symphonies with the London Symphonies-tempos become eccentric-minuets become lethargic, especially the trios. The great C minor symphony becomes unlistenable to me-sounds like a dirge. A great disappointment.

I prefer C. Davis in the London Symphonies for a modern performance-very well played by the Concertgebouw; mainstream tempos I can live with.

Szell/Cleveland is also fine for Symphonies 93-98. Too bad he didn't record them all. There's a mono 99 out there.


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## Brahmsian Colors

"I prefer C. Davis in the London Symphonies for a modern performance-very well played by the Concertgebouw; mainstream tempos I can live with.

Szell/Cleveland is also fine for Symphonies 93-98. Too bad he didn't record them all. There's a mono 99 out there." [QUOTE from hpowders above]

Agree exactly with your choices, and I also enjoy very much Scherchen's Original Masters Haydn set on DG.
And while I'm at it, I feel The Beaux Arts Trio is sui generis in Haydn's Piano Trios. The music it makes here is the crown jewel in my appreciation of Haydn.
In the String Quartets, the earliest stereo Vox label recordings(lps)by the Dekany Quartet, and The Prussian and Erdody Quartets performed by The Tokyo Quartet are all very fine.


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## Enthusiast

My particular favourite in the London symphonies has always been Jochum's with the LPO. Of course Beecham, Davis, Bernstein and Minkowski are all excellent so we are really spoiled for choice here. But Jochum's have always been "especially special" for me.

I love Pinnock's Sturm and Drang set and have had a lot of enjoyment out of the Fischer set.


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## Pugg

realdealblues said:


> Bernstein's Sony recordings with the New York Philharmonic are top shelf. Both Paris and London are excellent. Lenny was one of the best when it came to Haydn and with you (the original poster) coming back to Bernstein's recordings I would take that as a sign you probably have realized that as well. Haydn was a lot like Bernstein and I think that's why all the love and fun and and musical jokes that you find in Haydn symphonies comes out so well.
> 
> Karajan was surprisingly good in the Paris Symphonies as was Harnoncourt.
> 
> Jochum and Davis are both great in the London Symphonies.
> 
> Lots of others like Beecham, Szell and Klemperer recorded some excellent Haydn as well. While, I'm not a HIP guy for the most part I will say Bruggen was excellent in his Haydn recordings. Pinnock was also good in the Sturm und Drang symphonies as well.
> 
> For all the rest of the symphonies Antal Dorati is my go too.


I am with realdealbues as far as Bernstein and Dorati going.


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## Mal

Triplets said:


> My first exposure to Haydn recordings were the Bernstein recordings of the London and Paris Symphonies. They are wonderful and I have them on CD. My next exposure was to Neville Marriner, and the smaller forces and stylish playing seemed different from LB but also wonderful.


I've just discovered Marriner's excellent "Named Symphonies" box on Spotify, and the handful I've listened to are wonderful, I've never heard better interpretations.



> As playing standards improved in the HIPP movement through the years I enjoyed recordings by Kujiken...


Sp: "Kuijken". I have his "Paris" and "late transitional" symphonies, and they are a treasured part of my collection, as are Davis' set of London symphonies with the Concertgebouw.



> So what do Haydn fanciers prefer? Big band with great Conductors like Bernstein, Szell, or Haitink? Chamber sized Orchestras playing modern instruments, a la Marriner or Fischer? HIPP?


All of the above, sometimes  I've been doing a lot of comparative listening of Haydn symphonies on Spotify in the last week, and my favourites are:

Mariner 6-8, 22, 26, 31

Orpheus Chamber Orchestra 22 (a tie with Marriner!)

Bruggen: Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment [HIPP] 43

Szell: 94, 96 - just amazing!

Some disappointments:

Ward Northern Chamber Orchestra [modern instruments] 6-8, 22 - not up to Marriner's standard.

Pinnock [HIPP]: "Sturm und Drang" I own the box set, not sure it was a good purchase! The performances are lively, but I have become tired of the HIPP harshness, squally strings, & early digital sheen. Also, in HIPP context, Brüggen's 43 is much more inspiring - the OAE are a remarkable band, probably my favourites so far, given that Kuijken also used them in his Paris set.

Weil/Tafelmusik 43 - not up to Brüggen's standard.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Enthusiast said:


> My particular favourite in the London symphonies has always been Jochum's with the LPO. Of course Beecham, Davis, Bernstein and Minkowski are all excellent so we are really spoiled for choice here. But Jochum's have always been "especially special" for me.
> 
> I love Pinnock's Sturm and Drang set and have had a lot of enjoyment out of the Fischer set.


Don't forget Solti, he's excellent too for the London Symphonies . I second the praise given to Davis - I now own half of the set and am very impressed by its warmth, playfulness, transparency and, at the same time, energy.


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## Mal

Harnoncourt/Concentus Musica Wien is exciting in Sturm and Drang, 45 & 60
Marriner is a bit smoother, but very good, in 49
Weil/Tafelmusik recover with an excellent 51
Haenchen/CPE Bach Orchestra puts in a very beautiful and spirited, if restrained, performance of 60, and gives serious competition to Marriner ASMF & Orpheus in the excellent 22 ("the philsopher")

All these available on Spotify, and recommended by "Third Ear" reviewer, and multi-instrumentalist, Stephen Chakwin, and me (!)


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## Mal

DebussyDoesDallas said:


> Pinnock, hands down. Absolutely. Based my reading, there seems to be a relative consensus forming (of course with some dissenters) that this is the overall best set of Sturm and Drang...


I see no consensus. For instance the Penguin guide 2010 doesn't even give it three stars (and those overly generous guys give almost everyone three stars...) They criticise the smallness of the band (6.5.2.2.1), the sound ("dry and close"), and suggest the performances lack charm, and are often rushed. For what it's worth, I agree with them. "Third Ear" picks out recommended performances of individual symphonies, and Pinnock doesn't get recommended for any of them, while the Marriner/Leppard survey gets a blanket recommendation.


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## Mal

realdealblues said:


> For all the rest of the symphonies Antal Dorati is my go too.


Why? Even if you don't like HIP, are you saying Dorati is better than (say Marriner) in 6-8? And would you (really) go to many of the minor symphonies at all, by anyone?


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## hpowders

For the Paris symphonies, none better than Leonard Bernstein directing the New York Philharmonic.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Mal said:


> I've just discovered Marriner's excellent "Named Symphonies" box on Spotify, and the handful I've listened to are wonderful, I've never heard better interpretations.
> 
> Sp: "Kuijken". I have his "Paris" and "late transitional" symphonies, and they are a treasured part of my collection, as are Davis' set of London symphonies with the Concertgebouw.
> 
> All of the above, sometimes  I've been doing a lot of comparative listening of Haydn symphonies on Spotify in the last week, and my favourites are:
> 
> Mariner 6-8, 22, 26, 31
> 
> Orpheus Chamber Orchestra 22 (a tie with Marriner!)
> 
> Bruggen: Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment [HIPP] 43
> 
> Szell: 94, 96 - just amazing!
> 
> Some disappointments:
> 
> Ward Northern Chamber Orchestra [modern instruments] 6-8, 22 - not up to Marriner's standard.
> 
> Pinnock [HIPP]: "Sturm und Drang" I own the box set, not sure it was a good purchase! The performances are lively, but I have become tired of the HIPP harshness, squally strings, & early digital sheen. Also, in HIPP context, Brüggen's 43 is much more inspiring - the OAE are a remarkable band, probably my favourites so far, given that Kuijken also used them in his Paris set.
> 
> Weil/Tafelmusik 43 - not up to Brüggen's standard.


Weil's set of Sturm und Drang symphonies merits attention - it showcases a very light, biting hip sound which makes for a fun and exuberant listen.


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## Mal

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Weil's set of Sturm und Drang symphonies merits attention - it showcases a very light, biting hip sound which makes for a fun and exuberant listen.


I'll give you *fairly* fun/ exuberant in 43, after listening to Brüggen/OAE, which is *really* fun and exuberant. Swings and roundabouts, of course, Weil is my current favourite for 50, and I don't like Brüggen/OAE in Paris (exuberance turns to belligerence...) I listened to a bit of Bernstein in Paris and didn't like it that much, bit heavy, bit coarse; someone was raving about Wolff and Orchestra of St Pauls in 82 & 84 on Amazon, and those I really liked, superb (non-Hip) sound, but still, light, fun and exuberant, where necessary.


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## Funny

He didn't do a complete set, or anywhere near, but for the ones he did I tend to prefer Solomons. For everything else (other than a couple early ones by Hogwood) I generally prefer Fischer, with the caveat that he sometimes overemphasizes, making things slightliy gaudier than the score merits (and using a couple added-timpani versions that are likely inauthentic). Dorati is also great in general, but in addition to the slow minuets there are several that have too much ambient sound in the recording, one with a big truck going by outside. Don't recall which.


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## Mal

I don't think HIP is essential for Sturm and Drang, Marriner is now my benchmark in 43, 44, 49, 51, 59 - rich, fun and exuberant (Bruggen/OAE is my joint benchmark in 43 - HIP, MIP, why argue, have both!)

I listened to Wolff and Orchestra of St Pauls in 82 & 84 on Spotify, and liked them so much I bought 85, 86 on CD, but didn't like them at all! Buy carefully folks. One day their "on" next day their "off". Artists... and listeners... not a consistent lot.

I tried listening to Fischer's set on Naxos Music Library a few years ago and that was 2/3 a slog and 1/3 listening to glorious masterpieces. "Third ear" suggests that "only" 30 of Haydn's symphonies are great, fit to sit alongside those of Beethoven and the top 9 of Mozart. My listening experience seems to agree with this, and given that the 30 are concentrated between (roughly) 20-59 and 82-104 you are in danger of being disappointed and giving up early on, or mid-session, if you just buy a complete box set and start with #1. 

All subjective of course, those especially attuned to Haydn may say, "I love 'em all". But if, like me, you struggle with Haydn, keep on struggling, "there's gold in them there hills".


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## PeterF

Symphonies - Jochum, Szell, Dorati
String Quartets - Schneider, Kodaly, Tatrai
Piano Trios - Beaux Arts
Piano Sonatas - Brendel, Gould


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## Der Titan

I have the Fischer for the complete symhonies, Brüggen for the late symphonies, especially London and Paris, Karajan for the London and Paris, and some CDs of La Petite Bande. The La Petite Bande ist faboulus, Brüggen is also very fine, Karajans big band sound somehow misses the point, and the Fischer set is very acceptable. I have also a Naxos recording of Barry Wordsworth which is also very good.


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## Manxfeeder

Der Titan said:


> I have also a Naxos recording of Barry Wordsworth which is also very good.


It's nice to see a shoutout to Wordsworth. He tends to get overlooked in a field which is dominated by titans.


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## Heck148

Reiner, Bernstein, Szell are my favorites...


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## Guest

Dorati and Karajan.


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## Triesta

Finding my way through the Haydn symphonies, I admit, but I do very much like Abbado's selection of Londons on DG with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe. In fact In find it frustrating he didn't do all of them. He (perhaps surprisingly?) seems like a natural Haydnist to my inquiring ears: there's a real freshness and elegance to this recording and the band has incisiveness and vigour to go with it's Abbado-esque burnish. I've read that some people really don't like this recording, which I find baffling. Maybe I'll find out why when I've listened to more...


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## Simon23

My favorite works of Haydn are the London Symphonies. In my opinion, the best conductors are Jochum, Beecham and Klemperer.


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## Wigmar

Heliogabo said:


> Alfred Brendel's interpretation of the sonatas is marvellous...


Indeed, Brendel is a true master 🎼


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## Wigmar

As to symphonies, I wonder if Prague Chamber Orchestra or Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Mackerras might be an interesting choice, as I would prefer a smaller orchestra as used when Haydn wrote these works.
In my long playing record shelf, a complete set with Philharmonica Hungarica / Dorati (Decca) has remained almost unplayed for the last fourty years, as I prefer Haydn's chamber music to his symphonies. However, I have read positive thoughts about the Dorati issues, and I can enjoy listening to them, so I have decided to keep them. Another thing would be to have a cd set in order to economize the use of my gramophone
Best regards
wigmar


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## Kreisler jr

Mackerras didn't record much Haydn; I haven't heard any on them (apparently only 100-104 are available easily on CD). If you prefer modern chamber orchestra, a good option are the ones recorded by Marriner (33 of the better known ones, now put into a box that unfortunately seems still a bit expensive).


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## Wigmar

Kreisler jr said:


> Mackerras didn't record much Haydn; I haven't heard any on them (apparently only 100-104 are available easily on CD). If you prefer modern chamber orchestra, a good option are the ones recorded by Marriner (33 of the better known ones, now put into a box that unfortunately seems still a bit expensive).


Thanks, Kreisler jr, I will check it out. I know Marriner from Mozart concerti with Brendel, so I think this could be a good choice 🎼


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## Rogerx

Wigmar said:


> As to symphonies, I wonder if Prague Chamber Orchestra or Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Mackerras might be an interesting choice, as I would prefer a smaller orchestra as used when Haydn wrote these works.
> In my long playing record shelf, a complete set with Philharmonica Hungarica / Dorati (Decca) has remained almost unplayed for the last fourty years, as I prefer Haydn's chamber music to his symphonies. However, I have read positive thoughts about the Dorati issues, and I can enjoy listening to them, so I have decided to keep them. Another thing would be to have a cd set in order to economize the use of my gramophone
> Best regards
> wigmar



I adore the Dorati set , most played box from my collection , I just bought the Haydn box , they are so fine, I always hope the Heidelberg Symphony Orchestra/ Johannes Klumpp will be in on box.
St Luke's Orchestra,/ Charles Mackerras are also really fine.

.


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## Kreisler jr

Dorati, as is to be expected by such a huge project of recording 100+ pieces within 5 years or so, is rather uneven, and there has obviously been quite a bit of development in the 50 years since these recordings, especially in the last 30 years with HIP and for the symphonies befor the "Paris" set. Nevertheless it is mostly solid and if you still have a decent LP setup it should serve well as a "basis". 
For the earlier symphonies the main options on single discs (i.e. not big boxes) are Goodman/Hyperion and the Naxos series with different conductors/ensembles on modern instruments. Goodman is good except for an in my ears overly prominent harpsichord. What I have heard of the Naxos is a mixed bag, so I would recommend to try hearing them beforehand. 
A very good set of the so-called Sturm and Drang symphonies is Pinnock/Archiv. This is on historic instruments but the sound is very good, not scratchy and the interpretations rather straightforward without mannerisms.


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## Wigmar

Kreisler jr said:


> Dorati, as is to be expected by such a huge project of recording 100+ pieces within 5 years or so, is rather uneven, and there has obviously been quite a bit of development in the 50 years since these recordings, especially in the last 30 years with HIP and for the symphonies befor the "Paris" set. Nevertheless it is mostly solid and if you still have a decent LP setup it should serve well as a "basis".
> For the earlier symphonies the main options on single discs (i.e. not big boxes) are Goodman/Hyperion and the Naxos series with different conductors/ensembles on modern instruments. Goodman is good except for an in my ears overly prominent harpsichord. What I have heard of the Naxos is a mixed bag, so I would recommend to try hearing them beforehand.
> A very good set of the so-called Sturm and Drang symphonies is Pinnock/Archiv. This is on historic instruments but the sound is very good, not scratchy and the interpretations rather straightforward without mannerisms.


I have a decent Thorens record deck which has served me well for many years. I have had the Pinnock set in mind, so will listen to samples from Presto Classical 🎼


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