# Pastoral - Good recording?



## jimread

Hello,

I am looking for a good CD of the Pastoral symphony, one that is not only a good performance but also a good recording.

One where they didn't have a huge blanket in front of the orchestra, one where the dynamic range has not been tampered with, well not too much.

I recently bought a jazz ensemble recording by Largo in 2003 called 'Fables of lost time' the music is challenging but the recording is utterly superb. Instead of having the volume up by about 1/3 for instance, for this recording it's about 1/8th. The clarity is amazing and the stereo separation breathtaking and it's a large ensemble.

Some of the classical recordings I've got and paid a lot of money for are utter crap in comparison.

Jim


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## Guest

I am assuming you mean Beethoven's 6th?

There are a few recommendations I would make.

First, there is George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra. Szell was brilliant with Beethoven's symphonies, and I don't think you will be disappointed.

However, if you really want stellar, clear sound, as well as a superb performance, then you really need to go for Osmo Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra on the BIS label. The BIS recordings are generally top notch. As I recall, this is also a SACD release, so if you have a SACD player, you can get that extra level of incredible sonics. However, it can be played, and sounds incredible, on a normal CD player. Highly recommended. 

In addition, although I have not heard his recording of the 6th, Paavo Jarvi's Beethoven symphony cycle is also excellent with the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen. I only have his recording of the 5th and 1st, but can tell you that the sound and recording are also wonderful.

Vanska is my top pick, but the Szell is a nice budget priced release, but don't let the price put you off (less than $10), because this is no slouch.


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## Earthling

I've fallen in love with my John Eliot Gardiner recordings of the Beethoven symphonies. These are HIP, so I don't know how you'd feel about that, but there's some amazing clarity and nuance that shines in these recordings because of it to the instruments (performed wonderfully!). The engineering is excellent, with absolutely minimal compression.


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## jimread

Ahhhhhh Thanks Mike and Thanks Earthling thats really nice of you both.

I think instead of spending my dosh foolishly on feebay I will ask here first!

I am grateful to you both.

Jim


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## jimread

Dear Mike and Earthling,

I tried all your recommendations into eBay and the Paavo Jarvi one was listed.

I listened to it tonight and well, blimey, I see what you mean, 'what a record' as Geoffrey Smith says occasionally.

Very good performance, as though, well no I _was_ listening to it for the first time and the quality is superb, better than vinyl, never thought I would say that!!

One thing that surprised me was, when it gets a bit loud it doesn't blur, I thought it was my little Needle speakers at fault, but no it's the crap recordings I've got.

I would like to ask for more advice when I come to buy something else but don't want to take up too much space on here or time from you, is that OK?

Many many thanks - Jim


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## Earthling

jimread said:


> I would like to ask for more advice when I come to buy something else but don't want to take up too much space on here or time from you, is that OK?
> 
> Many many thanks - Jim


One of the dangerous things about this forum  is that it encourages me to look for more (good for my ears, not so good for my wallet LOL). By all means, asking for recommendations *here* is good because others might pick up something new too.  I can't tell you how many things I've gotten (or added to my wish list) since I've come to this forum!


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## drth15

*Pastoral*

Bohm,Vienna Phil
Walter, Columbia symphony


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## SalieriIsInnocent

Well, I have Barenboim's recording of it. I absolutely love it. It has the good sound, and it has the good emotion to it.


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## muxamed

Bruno Walter's and Nicolaus Harnoncourt's are my favorites. Even Gardiner is fine.


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## elgar's ghost

Mackerras with RLPO. Twinned with a good performance of the 4th, it's an absolute steal on a certain marketplace right now. Although not a 'period' orchestra or performance there is nevertheless an organic lightness to it which makes an agreeable contrast with one or two of the more cruiserweight recordings that I have.


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## tahnak

The performance of Pastoral that has not been eclipsed is by Sir Charles Groves conducting the Royal Liverpool Orchestra in 1960. I do not know whether it is issued on CD but it is there on vinyl.


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## Holden4th

tahnak said:


> The performance of Pastoral that has not been eclipsed is by Sir Charles Groves conducting the Royal Liverpool Orchestra in 1960. I do not know whether it is issued on CD but it is there on vinyl.


It's on Youtube in vinyl form.






Also they credit the RPO as the orchestra.


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## KenOC

You might want to check out the newly "reinvented" Bernard Haitink, now leaning in the HIP direction, playing with the London Symphony Orchestra, live. IMO this is a superb cycle with a really excellent Pastoral. Great sonics. You can stream it for free if you're an Amazon Prime member, or the MP3s are just fourteen bucks.


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## Holden4th

tahnak said:


> The performance of Pastoral that has not been eclipsed is by Sir Charles Groves conducting the Royal Liverpool Orchestra in 1960. I do not know whether it is issued on CD but it is there on vinyl.


I've just listened to this and was pleasantly surprised with what I heard. While I don't think it will quite rival my Reiner recording the approach is different from anything I've heard ad I think it's excellent. Groves brings out aspects from the inner workings of the music that, while they are there as an undercurrent, are not really obvious in other recordings. Well worth a listen from the link I posted previously if you have the time.


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## KenOC

I like Zinman. I mean, who has time for “leisturely strolls” like Walter’s? I need to get out, put on my cross-trainers, and do my four-mile circuit in 45 minutes. I can do that without breaking much of a sweat, so there’s plenty of time to get back to the office and decide who to promote, who to fire, important stuff like that.

But I’m glad that the woods are there. Doing my power walks on concrete might hurt my feet.


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## Pugg

Let's hope OP does come round and peek from time to time, ever since 2010 .


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## AfterHours

Norrington is generally pretty hit and miss, but the following 6th is extraordinary...

Roger Norrington - Radiosinfonieorchester Stuttgart (2003)


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## Heck148

Reiner/CSO....top drawer in all respects. the woodwind playing, esp, is simply delicious...
Szell/CO excellent also, so is Walter/ColSo


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## Oldhoosierdude

https://www.highdeftapetransfers.co...io-overture-reiner-chicago-symphony-orchestra

High Definition Tape Tranfers is the website. They have multiple formats for download and CD . I purchased the budget cd version . You can download a free sample. 
Beautiful recording.


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## Josquin13

The Best:

Bernard Haitink, London Symphony Orchestra live. Haitink's LSO recording of the 6th is a dramatic improvement over his earlier RCO recording on Phillips. Haitink's timpani are particularly effective in the storm (no holding back here). The sound quality is excellent too (though be aware that it was recorded from a live concert, and is a high density DSD recording, available in a hybrid SACD format). So, Haitink would be one of my top choice among digital era recordings; although be warned that it has some HIP elements, interpretatively, which may not be to all tastes:

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7944791--beethoven-symphonies-nos-2-6

https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-N...513033477&sr=1-6&keywords=Haitink+beethoven+6

Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony Orchestra--this is a terrific performance, though I've heard better accounts of the 1st movement. For example, with Otto Klemperer you can hear the sound of chirping birds in the 1st movement more vividly than with Reiner--so that's a bit of a negative in my view. But, otherwise it's great, especially in the final movements, where the storm scene is truly terrifying in Reiner's hands! (and it needs to be if the country folks' "thanks" to the "Godhead" is to make any sense in the 5th movement). Good sound for its age.









Pablo Casals, Marlboro Festival Orchestra. Like Beethoven, Casals was a nature lover, and it really shows--his conducting of the 6th is near ideal. The older sound is good enough, though not for audiophiles.









Wilhelm Furtwangler, Stockholm Philharmonic--Furtwangler is also excellent in this symphony, but as usual he doesn't have great sound quality.

Carla Maria Giulini--with either the Los Angeles Philharmonic (1979) or New Philharmonia (1969) orchestras (I've not heard his final La Scala recording of the 6th):















Nicholas Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe. Harnoncourt is one of the best conductors in the 1st two movements, and especially in the 2nd movement: where he wisely opts not to take the movement so fast that he's unable to achieve a strong sense of tranquility and calmness, and yet he's fast enough that we can still clearly hear the sound of a babbling brook, i.e., moving water, as well. That combination is very tricky to pull off. Indeed Harnoncourt negotiates the two nature elements of this movement as well as, if not better than anyone. But frustratingly, he's not quite as strong as Reiner, Haitink & others in the final two movements:






The Very Good:

Eugen Jochum, London Symphony Orchestra
Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony Orchestra--though Walter is too sentimental in the 2nd movement, in my view.
Erich Kleiber, Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam

The Best Performance on Period Instruments:

The only one I've liked was Frans Bruggen's first studio account for Phillips (though not so much his later live account):






Gardiner is overrated in the 6th, IMO, if you compare him to my above recommendations. For the most part, this symphony hasn't been a great outing for the period boys (Harnoncourt excepted, though the COE play on modern instruments), who are more successful elsewhere in the cycle (such as in the 1st, 2nd, 7th & 8th Symphonies, where they tend to shine).


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## Oldhoosierdude

I have a number of recordings of the 6th as it is, and has always been my favorite piece of music. Since I am attending a live performance next month, I decided to give a listen to all of my accounts, with each getting at least two listens. Important moments to me are the birds chirping as mentioned by another poster and the 3rd Allegro movement with the fanfare at the beginning and the storm. If not done the way I like it, it sounds like a cartoon in these parts to me or it is done too slow and clunky for my taste. So far the ninety-nine centers (that's what the cycle downloads cost me for the 9 symphonies) have nailed it: Meaning Wyn Morris and Joseph Krips. With Walter, Kletzki, and Reiner not quite as good to my ears and Szell pretty solid but not quite there. I'm not done. I still will be listening to Lebowitz, Blomstedt, Barenboim, Gardner, Cluytens, and Bernstein(NYPO). Plus, I will heed some advise from another poster and listen to Haitink on my Amazon Prime.


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## cougarjuno

Abbado's recording on DG with the Vienna Phil shouldn't be ignored it's also a wonderful recording.


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## Oldhoosierdude

I've now listened through all of my Pastoral Symphony recordings more than once. While all are good, only one stands at the top for me. Krips and the LSO from sometime in the early 60's was my introduction to classical music. I have to stick with it.

But I will continue listening to different recordings in preparation and anticipation of the live concert on January 27.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I need to listen to Krips.

My current top 10 Pastorals are:

1. Furtwangler '54
2. Furtwangler '47
3. Walter
4. Klemperer
5. Bohm
6. Cluytens
7. Bernstein DG
8. Steinberg
9. Casals
10. Monteux


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## Larkenfield

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I've now listened through all of my Pastoral Symphony recordings more than once. While all are good, only one stands at the top for me. Krips and the LSO from sometime in the early 60's was my introduction to classical music. I have to stick with it.
> 
> But I will continue listening to different recordings in preparation and anticipation of the live concert on January 27.


Finally heard the Krips performance today after putting it off for years and thoroughly enjoyed it... thought it wonderful. It's warm, leisurely and relaxed... One usually doesn't go into Nature to rush through it. It's more of a meditative and contemplative journey. The Krips is well-recorded too. He brings out the contentment and acceptance of the beauty of life that I feel Beethoven had at the time, and the composer is not railing against fate or injustice as he sometimes is in the turbulence of his other symphonies-he was at peace with himself. Quite beautiful the sound of the birds cuckooing in the forest, and then later comes the rumbling of the storm-a master composer painting an ideal portrait of the grand forces of nature in sound. Bravo!
:tiphat:


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## KJ von NNJ

Walter Columbia SO - Sony 
Karajan BPO - 70's DG
Bernstein VPO - 70's DG
Giulini La Scala - Sony
Monteux VPO - Decca
Bohm VPO - DG


The first one I heard was Leinsdorf with the BSO on RCA. I still like that one. I have not heard quite of few of them, so I'm going with what I know!


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## Judith

Love Muti's. Have four recordings of it and his is the best performed with Philadelphia Orchestra.


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## Oldhoosierdude

How about recordings of the 6th you really don't like?

My least favorite of all time is Adrian Boult. Wow, dreadful.


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## Brahmsianhorn

So I tried the Krips, and though the first two movements were lovely the rest was so low octane it failed to keep my interest. The storm was maybe the wimpiest I have ever heard. Good recording, but far outside my top 10 posted above.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Brahmsianhorn said:


> So I tried the Krips, and though the first two movements were lovely the rest was so low octane it failed to keep my interest. The storm was maybe the wimpiest I have ever heard. Good recording, but far outside my top 10 posted above.


It's the one I grew up with so it's kind of stuck in my head. I'm sure musically speaking there are better ones.

2 famous ones I dont rank high are Walter's and Karajan 63. They are Ok but not amongst my favorites.


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## bigshot

Bohm is my goto for this. I love Stoki's Fantasia but that needs the pictures to work.


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## DavidA

Oldhoosierdude said:


> It's the one I grew up with so it's kind of stuck in my head. I'm sure musically speaking there are better ones.
> 
> 2 famous ones I dont rank high are Walter's and *Karajan 63*. They are Ok but not amongst my favorites.


1963 is not his best. For that go to his 1950s or 1970s sets.


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## KevinW

muxamed said:


> Bruno Walter's and Nicolaus Harnoncourt's are my favorites. Even Gardiner is fine.


I also like Harnoncourt's recording. I don't know which one are you refering to, but my best is the Europe Chamber Orchestra one. The orchestra's playing does not sound as good as the big orchestras, but the details brought out by a rather slow tempo is a quite unique highlight of the recording.


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