# Bach's WTC Recommendation



## TinyTim

I'd like to buy a CD set of the complete Well-Tempered Clavier. Any suggestions and reasons for your personal favorite recording?


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## KenOC

Well, there are a lot and they're all good in their own ways! But I'd say, get Glenn Gould's set. Heck, I'd shout it! :lol:


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## TinyTim

KenOC said:


> Well, there are a lot and they're all good in their own ways! But I'd say, get Glenn Gould's set. Heck, I'd shout it! :lol:


Ken,

Why do you like Gould's recording best?

Tim

P.S. Do you read Samuel Johnson? I've come to love his writing later in life and usually dip into something by him at least weekly.


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## ptr

Which instrument?

Clavichord: Jaroslav Tuma @ Suoraphon

Harpsochord: Richard Egarr @ Harmonia Mundi

Organ: Louis Thiry @ Arion

(Piano: Sviatoslav Richter @ RCA)

Each is the best recording IMHO!

/ptr


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## ahammel

An excellent rundown on the best piano and harpsichord versions

I like Angela Hewitt's second set. GG is obviously a major consideration for any of Bach's stuff as well.


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## Air

Samuil Feinberg


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## Ukko

Arthur Loesser.


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## KenOC

TinyTim said:


> Ken,
> 
> Why do you like Gould's recording best?


Two possible reasons.

Possibility 1: Gould plays each prelude and each fugue with a fresh perspective and a unique sense of being a complete composition in itself, with its own identity and story. He plays with unfathomable technical skill and sure sense of touch. He has an unparalleled ability to clarify the horizontal lines, giving each voice a unique individuality.

Possibility 2: He totally blew me away at just the right age.


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## Ravndal

Glenn Gould. Definitely! Everything else is boring.


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## DavidA

Of the three I have:

Glenn Gould is eccentric in places but the playing is fabulously virtuosic.

Richter is somewhat detached but is well worth hearing

Angela Hewitt is really good. Probably the safest 'central' version.

But I would not be without Gould!


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## StlukesguildOhio

Bach's Well Tempered Clavier is one of the towering works that you will almost certainly want to eventually explore in a number of alternative recordings. I have 7 or 8. Glenn Gould's is a work of genius... although it arguably has its eccentricities, so I would hold back on making it my first choice. Richter takes too much of a Romantic approach to Bach. I would personally go with Angela Hewitt's first recording or Andras Schiff's... followed by Rosalyn Tureck and Gould.


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## Ukko

Maybe it depends on how familiar one is with Baroque keyboard music, and fugues in general. I like Sergey Schepkin, Book II in particular - but for anyone who has difficulty hearing the voices in the fugues, Arthur Loesser's interpretations are entrancing, even delightful. The only requirement is a tolerance for a notably less-than-perfect piano; easy for me, but I know of professional pianists who have managed it.


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## joen_cph

Loesser is unknown to me, I´ll try to check it out a bit, sounds interesting.

Feinberg & Richter for me, followed by Gould.


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## Ukko

joen_cph said:


> Loesser is unknown to me, I´ll try to check it out a bit, sounds interesting.
> 
> Feinberg & Richter for me, followed by Gould.


The Loesser recorded by Teldec, to LPs. There was a CD issue, shortly before Teldec went under. Looks like Doremi picked it up, but it ain't cheap, at amazon.com anyway.

Edit: Oops, that's Telarc, another beastie fer sure.


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## Guest

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Bach's Well Tempered Clavier is one of the towering works that you will almost certainly want to eventually explore in a number of alternative recordings. I have 7 or 8. Glenn Gould's is a work of genius... although it arguably has its eccentricities, so I would hold back on making it my first choice. Richter takes too much of a Romantic approach to Bach. I would personally go with Angela Hewitt's first recording or Andras Schiff's... followed by Rosalyn Tureck and Gould.


Dear St Luke, what's your take on the latest Schiff offering?


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## millionrainbows

Glenn Gould. Because his playing is very precise and articulated, meaning you can hear the inner voices as well. He plays with a supreme intelligence, as if he were the master himself, or had some sort of connection to him. When it's fast, it's very thrilling; when it's slow, it's profound. Also, the recordings are close-miked, without too much hall echo (which spoils the otherwise good Sviatoslav Richter version).

Also, there's a Friedrich Gulda 2-fer on Philips that's good. Good recording, and I agree with many of his tempo choices.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Dear St Luke, what's your take on the latest Schiff offering?

I haven't heard the 2011/12 recording. I have his earlier recording from the 90s... but from the reviews I've read it looks like I'll need to add it to my list.


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## KenOC

TinyTim said:


> P.S. Do you read Samuel Johnson? I've come to love his writing later in life and usually dip into something by him at least weekly.


I have never read Samuel Johnson but am sorely tempted. See my new signature below!


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## Vaneyes

TT, if you're buying GG WTC I & II as new CDs (which is a wise decision), I think you'll find the latest reissue (4 CDs) is the least expensive. :tiphat:

View attachment 18100


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## worov

My favorite is Rosalyn Tureck (the 1953 recording reissued by Deutsche Grammophon).

I used to like Gould (it was my first hearing of the set). But over the years, it has gone too weird, too idiosyncratic for me. And the humming doesn't help.

I also like very much Angela Hewitt (I have only her first recording of the late 1990's, don't know about the 2008 recording) and Andras Schiff.

On harpsichord, I like Gustav Leonhardt, Koopman. And I love Ralph Kirkpatrick's version on clavichord.


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## Turangalîla

If you are only buying one recording, it must be one of Hewitt, Tureck, or Schiff.

Gould, Richter, or anything else will give you a tainted picture of the WTC if you do not have an "orthodox" recording to balance it out.


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## quack

I'd certainly agree with Feinberg as being the greatest of the ones i've heard, but it might prove expensive to obtain. Other than that Ashkenazy's recent recording on Decca is perfectly competent and beautiful despite it not being his usual repertoire.


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## kv466

My obvious choice is the Canadian Master but if I had to pick a mere mortal, I've always liked Vladimir Feltsman's approach and delivery of Bach in general. The WTC is a great example of this.


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## ahammel

kv466 said:


> My obvious choice is the Canadian Master[...]


Yeah, Angela Hewitt is great


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## tdc

quack said:


> I'd certainly agree with Feinberg as being the greatest of the ones i've heard, but it might prove expensive to obtain.* Other than that Ashkenazy's recent recording on Decca is perfectly competent and beautiful despite it not being his usual repertoire*.


I was initially underwhelmed with the Ashkenazy, but on subsequent listens I've come to really appreciate it. I prefer it to Richter or Gould. I have only heard Hewitt's WTC on harpsichord and haven't heard Feinberg yet. I'm looking forward to exploring more of the recommendations in this thread.


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## aleazk

millionrainbows said:


> Glenn Gould. Because his playing is very precise and articulated, meaning you can hear the inner voices as well. He plays with a supreme intelligence, as if he were the master himself, or had some sort of connection to him. When it's fast, it's very thrilling; when it's slow, it's profound. Also, the recordings are close-miked, without too much hall echo (which spoils the otherwise good Sviatoslav Richter version).
> 
> Also, there's a Friedrich Gulda 2-fer on Philips that's good. Good recording, and I agree with many of his tempo choices.


This is quite true. Here's a great example, the fugue in E major from the WTC II:

fast: 




slow: 




It's absolutely amazing how the same piece can be so widely expressive. The two different versions are really great in the own right!. Both have their individual personalities and details.


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## maestro57

Have you decided which ones to go with yet, TinyTim?

If not, here are my suggestions:

If you're one of those people who like their stuff on period instruments and want authenticity, then I'd say Bob van Asperen's WTC I/II on the harpsichord (or Gustav Leonhardt, his mentor).

If you want something with a bit more feel to it and don't mind it being played on a modern piano, then I'm with everyone else on Glenn Gould. (Gould's Goldberg Variations 1955 and 1981 are also must-haves.)

Good luck!

PS: Hello to a fellow pacific northwester :tiphat:


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## moody

kv466 said:


> My obvious choice is the Canadian Master but if I had to pick a mere mortal, I've always liked Vladimir Feltsman's approach and delivery of Bach in general. The WTC is a great example of this.


I didn't know that Carter Johnson had recorded it !!


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Arthur Loesser.


Arthur Loesser, 1894-1969, was a wonderful pianist and a very funny man.
He studied with Sigismund Stojowski at the Institute of Musical Art (now Juillard).
He toured the world giving concerts beginning 1913 in Berlin.
He joined the faculty of the Cleveland Institute of Music in 1926 and became head of the department in 1953
His book "Men,Women and Pianos.a social history." proved to be a best-seller.
Arthur was half-brother to Frank Loesser the Broadway composer.
Loesser was particularly well known for his Bach recitals and had been practicing for a concert that would include the Goldberg Variations when he was struck down by the heart attack that proved fatal.
His very amusing and popular evenings of illustrated recitals included music by composers from "inside the piano stool".
These covered such luminaries as Kocwara and his "The Battle of Prague" and Tekia Badarzewski Babanowska and her "A Maiden's Prayer".
Loesser was President and one of the founders of the international Piano Library.
I picked up a recording of one of these evening entitled "Sic Transit Gloria Mundi" done in New York and couldn't stop laughing


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## Praeludium

Richter was the first set I got and I like it a lot. I have many very good memories with this recording, I must have listened to it many dozen of hours and I absolutely do not get bored with it.

Nowadays you can buy a good, famous set and still explore beyond that using internet, archives, library, etc. 

So maybe you should just get one "safe" choice (safe, not boring) and continue to explore. It's particularly interesting in the music fof Bach, since there's so little written, it's so dense... it gives a lot of interpretative freedom.
I'm sure it's a long journey - I'm only at the beginning of it myself.

The hardest choice is actually whether or not you'll buy an HIP recording. The music can be very different, almost like it's from an other composer, depending on how it's played and the instrument used.


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## Ukko

If you do the research, you may locate a set recorded on harpsichord and arranged in the 'circle of fifths' order. The interpretations will probably be _very_ safe.


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## ticoune

Schiiff's last attempt is very good and different from most offerings. I also would recommend Hewitt's last offering as well mostly because she is better with a Fazioli than a Steinway.


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## Marisol

I think Richard Egarr's recording is interesting because he takes tunings seriously which is an important part of Bach's music.

Unlike what many people seem to think "Wohltemperierte" does not mean equal tempered but well-tempered, something different.

Here are some samples:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-das-wohltemperierte-clavier-vol-1-mw0001865148


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## moody

Marisol said:


> I think Richard Egarr's recording is interesting because he takes tunings seriously which is an important part of Bach's music.
> 
> Unlike what many people seem to think "Wohltemperierte" does not mean equal tempered but well-tempered, something
> Here are some samples:
> http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-das-wohltemperierte-clavier-vol-1-mw0001865148


All my life,which is long,I've seen it referred to as Welltempered---where did you dig this other stuff up from ?
If people look at Wikipedia they can see what this means.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> All my life,which is long,I've seen it referred to as Welltempered---where did you dig this other stuff up from ?
> If people look at Wikipedia they can see what this means.


There are a _lot_ of recordings out there made using equal temperament, but the perpetrators almost certainly knew what they were doing. What they mostly didn't know was what _exactly_ Bach meant by well tempered. I gather that it's been narrowed down only recently.


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## joen_cph

Hilltroll72 said:


> There are a _lot_ of recordings out there made using equal temperament, but the perpetrators almost certainly knew what they were doing. What they mostly didn't know was what _exactly_ Bach meant by well tempered. I gather that it's been narrowed down only recently.


... and of course it already exists: _"The Ill-Tempered Piano"_ (copyright Nicola Cipani; nice amazon review too) 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Ill-Tempered-Piano/dp/B001HVEMA0


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## Ukko

joen_cph said:


> ... and of course it already exists: _"The Ill-Tempered Piano"_ (copyright Nicola Cipani; nice amazon review too)
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Ill-Tempered-Piano/dp/B001HVEMA0




This time, amazon's sample clips are long enough!


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## joen_cph

I guess so; prepared piano works can do, at least for a start ...


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## moody

joen_cph said:


> ... and of course it already exists: _"The Ill-Tempered Piano"_ (copyright Nicola Cipani; nice amazon review too)
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Ill-Tempered-Piano/dp/B001HVEMA0


Talking about Glen Gould again!


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## joen_cph

Glenn Gould was never out of tune in that way!


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## Guest

Abdel Rahman El Bacha's set of Book I on the Triton label is a fine modern recording with stunning SACD audio. I assume he will get around to Book II eventually.


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## badRomance

* Piano: Glenn Gould. But I have to say Gould really taints your ears when you listen to subsequent pianists play WTC. I also like Angela Hewitt but I find it hard to tolerate Hyperion's acoustics which is too wet.

* Harpsichord: (books I & II) Bob van Asperen on a muscular sounding Zell harpsichord; but for book II, Ottavio Dantone wins me over time and time again.


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## Picander

No mentions to Kenneth Gilbert? I treasure his 4 CD set because it's great, and because when I bought it in the 80's it cost a little fortune :lol:


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## Il_Penseroso

I have Fischer, Gieseking and Richter... enough for me!


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## Ukko

Il_Penseroso said:


> I have Fischer, Gieseking and Richter... enough for me!


I'm guessing that's Edwin Fischer. "Enough for you" is whatever you want it to be. That there is a lot of 'ground uncovered' is the reason for the other 40 or so posts. Considering your likes to indicate that up-to-the-moment sound reproduction is not a requirement, have you sampled Feinberg? He has a way with the fugues... .


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## Il_Penseroso

Hilltroll72 said:


> I'm guessing that's Edwin Fischer. "Enough for you" is whatever you want it to be. That there is a lot of 'ground uncovered' is the reason for the other 40 or so posts.


Yes Edwin Fischer...

The reason is clear and respectable, of course. I just pointed my personal opinion by saying 'enough for me'. And... it's a recommendation for not only the famous but fine interpretations of the WTC, as I noticed nobody mentioned Fischer or Gieseking recording, which I think both are of the highest peaks of Bach playing, at least among the old historical piano recordings. Just added, might be useful for someone... 



> Considering your likes to indicate that up-to-the-moment sound reproduction is not a requirement, have you sampled Feinberg? He has a way with the fugues... .


And I'm guessing that's Samuel Feinberg 

Feinberg is good, also Maria Yudina which I enjoy her Bach renditions (I'm not sure if she ever recorded the complete cycle of the WTC) as well as a couple of other pianists and harpsichordists, but just had a chance to listen to some individual numbers on the internet.

P.S. Like your avatar (Zoroaster figure from The School of Athens).


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## Ukko

"Fischer" gets Edwin confused with Annie (though probably not in Bach). Don't know if there are other big-name Feinbergs among pianists. And I agree that Fischer & Gieseking should be mentioned, especially if I'm mentioning Loesser and Schepkin.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> There are a _lot_ of recordings out there made using equal temperament, but the perpetrators almost certainly knew what they were doing. What they mostly didn't know was what _exactly_ Bach meant by well tempered. I gather that it's been narrowed down only recently.


I've only just come across this. I know perfectly well what referring to something e.g.steel as tempered means, there is no mystery


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## Ondine

Keith Jarrett performance is, in my opinion, brilliant.


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## Marisol

moody said:


> I've only just come across this. I know perfectly well what referring to something e.g.steel as tempered means, there is no mystery


So what do you mean there is no mystery?


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## Ukko

moody said:


> I've only just come across this. I know perfectly well what referring to something e.g.steel as tempered means, there is no mystery


Hah. If someone referred to steel as 'tuned', there'd be no mystery?


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## KenOC

A report: I finally bought Schiff's new set of the WTC. I have long had his older set but never found it compelling, at least compared with some others (and I have quite a few). But the new set is fantastic! Without going into details, it's at the top of my piano pile along with Gould's set, its polar opposite.


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## ptr

^^Interesting Ken, haven't heard the ECM WTC (but will put it on order!), but judged on what I have heard of his later recordings, Schiff seems to get better and better with age!

/ptr


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## moody

Marisol said:


> So what do you mean there is no mystery?


As to what Well Tempered means,are you with it or not ?


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## KenOC

moody said:


> As to what Well Tempered means,are you with it or not ?


Obviously Bach meant for this music to be played on a clavier that had first been quenched in cold water and then reheated to its lower transformation temperature. A lot of art went into those old clavichords! :lol:


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## moody

Marisol said:


> So what do you mean there is no mystery?


well
tempered is fairly obvious as to meaning , but in this case it apparently means that the twelve notes per octave of the standard keyboard are tuned in such a way that it is possible to play music in most major or minor keys and it will not sound perceptibly out of tune in most tuning systems used before 1700.
Now I have admired how clever you seem to be in various threads and I would have thought you must know this---if so I must ask myself why you didn't volunteer the information which would undoubtedly have been of help to us all.


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## Guest

I will do you the good favor to link performances of Gould, Feinberg, Richter _and_ Ottavo

Glenn Gould: 
WTC Book I: 



WTC Book II: 




Sviaslatov Richter: 



 [WTC Book I and II]

Samuil Feinberg:
Book I: 



Book II: 




Ottavo Dantone:
[HARPSICHORD ]Book I: 



[PERFORMANCE]Book II:


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## Pianoxtreme

I'm hesitant to answer, considering I've only bought one recording, but I absolutely love Maurizio Pollini's recording of WTC.


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## Ukko

Pianoxtreme said:


> I'm hesitant to answer, considering I've only bought one recording, but I absolutely love Maurizio Pollini's recording of WTC.


Thanks for this. For some reason (yes _il seraglio_, stupidity is a possibility) I hadn't thought to ask what it is that makes a performance of the WTC stand out for you. That's the general 'you' not just _you_, _Pianoxtreme_.

For me, the WTC can be pretty much impenetrable, because the fugues don't... shake out? I mean, I can't discern the lines of them. The reason Sergei Schepkin's Book 2 stands out for me is that a lot of those voices become clear; makes for considerably more enjoyment. For Book 1, Arthur Loesser did me the favor.

If I put on a previously 'difficult' recording a day or so after listening to Loesser or Schepkin, voila, it's less difficult.

So... what's the story here, folks?


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## Marisol

Hilltroll72 said:


> For me, the WTC can be pretty much impenetrable, because the fugues don't... shake out? I mean, I can't discern the lines of them. The reason Sergei Schepkin's Book 2 stands out for me is that a lot of those voices become clear; makes for considerably more enjoyment. For Book 1, Arthur Loesser did me the favor.
> 
> If I put on a previously 'difficult' recording a day or so after listening to Loesser or Schepkin, voila, it's less difficult.
> 
> So... what's the story here, folks?


I think it depends. Obviously we expect a keyboard player to play the individual voices of the fugue, however at what point does it become less than subtle? Compare it to a frequent thing in baroque music when a short phrase repeats it is played softer the second time, nice, makes sense, but when it goes from very loud to very soft is that really what we want?

So I think subtlety is important, if it is blatantly obvious it may start to become irritating after listening to it several times.


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## Turangalîla

Hilltroll72 said:


> For me, the WTC can be pretty much impenetrable, because the fugues don't... shake out? I mean, I can't discern the lines of them. The reason Sergei Schepkin's Book 2 stands out for me is that a lot of those voices become clear; makes for considerably more enjoyment. For Book 1, Arthur Loesser did me the favor.


This is why I am against pedalling Bach (except for small touches to join notes)-you lose the polyphony in the texture of it.


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## Turangalîla

moody said:


> I didn't know that Carter Johnson had recorded it !!


Awwe, I just saw this...moody, you're the best!


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## Ukko

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> This is why I am against pedalling Bach (except for small touches to join notes)-you lose the polyphony in the texture of it.


OK. My admition-of-incompetence above was intended to evoke explanations of techniques for (bringing out, revealing, whatever the non-pejorative term is) revealing those lines/voices in the fugues of the WTC. On a related tack, can someone describe what Schepkin does in that regard that is different from what your favored pianist does?


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## KenOC

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> This is why I am against pedalling Bach (except for small touches to join notes)-you lose the polyphony in the texture of it.


In his new recording of the WTC, Schiff uses no pedal at all -- anywhere. He discusses this in the liner notes.


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## ptr

KenOC said:


> In his new recording of the WTC, Schiff uses no pedal at all -- anywhere. He discusses this in the liner notes.


Just listening to Schiff WTK version II, Awesome as a first impression!

/ptr


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## joen_cph

karajan said:


> I will do you the good favor to link performances of Gould, Feinberg, Richter _and_ Ottavo
> 
> Glenn Gould:
> WTC Book I:
> 
> 
> 
> WTC Book II:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sviaslatov Richter:
> 
> 
> 
> [WTC Book I and II]
> 
> Samuil Feinberg:
> Book I:
> 
> 
> 
> Book II:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ottavo Dantone:
> [HARPSICHORD ]Book I:
> 
> 
> 
> [PERFORMANCE]Book II:


Thank you for these links. It recently came to my attention that *Yudina*´s complete WTC Moscow 1950 is on you-t as well: (unfortunately very poor sound)


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## Bix

I really like this version http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Well-Tempered-Clavier-Books/dp/B00001O2XM

Gould, Ashkenazy and Pollini are also worth a listen.


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## Novelette

Bix said:


> I really like this version http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Well-Tempered-Clavier-Books/dp/B00001O2XM
> 
> Gould, Ashkenazy and Pollini are also worth a listen.


Ashkenazy's interpretations of Bach are always impressive, I will have to investigate his WTC performance now.


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## Ravndal

I don't feel that Pollini offered anything exciting or new with his recording of the WTC. I actually don't know why he chose to record it. 

That said, i have heard so many different version of the WTC - and the only one I am satisfied with is the Gould version.


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## Ukko

Ravndal said:


> I don't feel that Pollini offered anything exciting or new with his recording of the WTC. I actually don't know why he chose to record it.
> 
> That said, i have heard so many different version of the WTC - and the only one I am satisfied with is the Gould version.


That is probably because you are old, and set in your ways.


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## Ravndal

Perhaps. But I often try to find new interesting versions, and I am completely open for something new.


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## KenOC

Ravndal said:


> Perhaps. But I often try to find new interesting versions, and I am completely open for something new.


Do try the new Schiff. It's kind of the opposite of Gould, but kind of the same too. Please don't ask me to clarify that!


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## Air

Ravndal said:


> Perhaps. But I often try to find new interesting versions, and I am completely open for something new.


Have you tried Fischer and Feinberg? Oldies are goodies.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> That is probably because you are old, and set in your ways.


I'm afraid it's true he is.


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## moody

ptr said:


> Just listening to Schiff WTK version II, Awesome as a first impression!
> 
> /ptr


I am surprised that a man of your calibre uses the wretched "awesome" word you're not a whippersnapper.


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## ptr

moody said:


> I am surprised that a man of your calibre uses the wretched "awesome" word you're not a whippersnapper.


You know Sir, one sometimes has to adjust to the minor lingo of the audience! Not an excuse, just a bewildered explanation!  
I will try to avoid wretched words hence forth! But I apologize in advance if I miscarry such words writing in the future!

/ptr


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## moody

ptr said:


> You know Sir, one sometimes has to adjust to the minor lingo of the audience! Not an excuse, just a bewildered explanation!
> I will try to avoid wretched words hence forth! But I apologize in advance if I miscarry such words writing in the future!
> 
> /ptr


No sir,don't mix with the bottom feeders,go to the top where things are clear and the air sweeter.


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## KenOC

I think using the word "awesome" is just...just...awesome!


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## moody

KenOC said:


> I think using the word "awesome" is just...just...awesome!


Yes but you are one of the types I was referring to.


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> I think using the word "awesome" is just...just...awesome!


Y'know, the sense of the word has been polluted to a degree that fits it's current tattered state... awesome.


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## bagpipers

Ravndal said:


> Glenn Gould. Definitely! Everything else is boring.


Gould was the definative master of Bach.good post and very right


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