# I listen baroque / classical music only on period instruments and I love them!



## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

I still remember when I discovered early / classical music. I tried Baroque era, Classical era and Romanticism; then I got rid of Romanticism because I was more interested in Baroque and Classical periods, they are my cup of tea. 

At first, because I had no idea about performers and ways to perform the music of both periods, I tried listening any performer in the media. My first Matthaus Passion was the one of Karajan. Then, someone told me I was wasting my time listening baroque in the wrong way, the HIP or period instrument practice was by far more enjoyable and authentic. By that time I was buying baroque music on CD and listening period instrument recordings made me to decide getting rid of anything performed on modern instruments and I started a new collection to make it as much authentic and enjoyable as possible. Some years later I started with Renaissance music and then I was told and also discovered by myself that was more enjoyable to listen Renaissance polyphony either with male reduced choirs or in case of larger choirs, using kids avoiding women as possible according to historical practices. The fact of listening to reduced/one voice per part male choirs to perform Renaissance Polyphony: Cinquecento, Cappella Pratensis made me to think about buying some recordings of Bach Cantatas using OVPP Rifkin thesis theory but still I am not convinced about what is the best way to perform Bach Cantatas and other vocal works: multiple voices per part or one voice per part, of course, assuming always in both cases period instrument / HIP performances. For this reason I have Bach cantatas using both practices. I wish someone could have the definitive solution to this problem but I find enjoyable this Bachian civil war between fans, performers and musicologists: OVPPists vs VVPPists.

Sorry... I was omitting my transformation with the classical period. Some years ago I had some recordings using modern instruments and I thought... if I am enjoying baroque period with period instruments how amazing would be listening Mozart, Haydn and Boccherini with period instruments and this is exactly what I have done, currently all my classical era recordings are on period instruments, for example, for Mozart Requiem I own Herreweghe, Gardiner and William Christie, pretty similar with his amazing operas, in this case with Gardiner and Jacobs.

Yes, I know I am a taliban. Surely in real life I would be insufferable when talking about early/classical music but the truth is period instruments and HIP practices made me to get deeper and enjoy baroque/classical music as I never did before.

PS. Currently I even prefer countertenor, male alto voices for castrato and soprano roles.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Personally I like period instruments for baroque, mixed for classical, and don't like one voice per part ever. My favourite version of Bach's st. Matthew Passion is the 2nd version by Herwegghe by far.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

There are plenty of folks who prefer baroque and classical era music on period instruments. I'm pretty much in Phil's camp except that I have no problem with one voice per part and my favorite St. Matthew Passion is Herreweghe's 1st version.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

So do I. It sound so lively, full of spirit and a style that communicates.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Be happy you live in the free world, you can like and don't like whatever you want, plenty of us will agree and the other half has another opinion, so bee it.


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

I prefer Bach's piano concertos to be played on a harpsichord. However I dislike listening to Mozart's on a fortepiano, the piano is pretty much the same instrument but greatly improved in terms of tone and richness. A harpsichord is a completely different instrument.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Norma Skock said:


> I prefer Bach's piano concertos to be played on a harpsichord. However I dislike listening to Mozart's on a fortepiano, the piano is pretty much the same instrument but greatly improved in terms of tone and richness. A harpsichord is a completely different instrument.


Of course one could make the argument that the fortepiano is also another instrument and Mozart and others exploited its capabilities and "shortcomings" accordingly.


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

Chronochromie said:


> Of course one could make the argument that the fortepiano is also another instrument and Mozart and others exploited its capabilities and "shortcomings" accordingly.


One could indeed argue that.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Norma Skock said:


> I prefer Bach's piano concertos to be played on a harpsichord.


If Bach had written any concertos for the piano, I'd first want to hear them on the piano.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Even if I much prefer period instruments and small ensembles for Bach (and for all Early Music), I would never dream of rejecting all the great artists from the "preauthentic" age, who have made recordings on modern instruments. Many of these recordings are outstanding, and also I find it interesting to see the changes in performance practice in a historical perspective. So it is not rare for me to listen to Münchinger, Ristenpart, Redel, Walcha, Kraft, Stockmeier, Kirkpatrick, Ahlgrimm, Suske, Gendron et.c.et.c.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

HIP is what got me into classical. After being away from classical music for a long time, I heard John Eliot Gardner's recording of Handel's Messiah on the radio and immediately ran to the store and bought it. I'm not a fan of wide vibrato on instruments or in voices, and HIP recordings took that away. So for a long time I was a pretty die-hard HIP fan, even going to the extreme of trying Norrington's Bruckner symphonies on period instruments (I only got one of his cycle and stopped). I think that's what convinced me that you can take a good thing too far. 

Anyway. lately I've loosened up. There are bad HIP recordings and good old-school recordings, so now I take them as they come and appreciate the artistry however it arrives.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I have my surgeries performed only on period instruments. Only authentic medical scalpel for me, thank you very much.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

My fiddle teacher is a professional HIP violinist and violist in several baroque ensembles, so I've been listening to a lot of HIP baroque music in the last five years, and I do like it. I love harpsichords too. But that doesn't mean I'm a purist. Non-HIP baroque is fine if it's performed with spirit & beauty. Pianos can be cool too.


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I have my surgeries performed only on period instruments. Only authentic medical scalpel for me, thank you very much.


You have to wonder what the composers would have done with more modern orchestras. Then again, you also have to wonder what they wouldn't have done.

Think of the following two examples. The first signals aggressiveness. The second is completely different because of the diminuendo. Both however are very emotional, just the second veers from Bach's intentions (although perhaps he would have liked it, we have no way of knowing).

Starting at 5:50:





Same moment at 12:20:


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Norma Skock said:


> You have to wonder what the composers would have done with more modern orchestras. Then again, you also have to wonder what they wouldn't have done.
> 
> Think of the following two examples. The first signals aggressiveness. The second is completely different because of the diminuendo. Both however are very emotional, just the second veers from Bach's intentions (although perhaps he would have liked it, we have no way of knowing).
> 
> ...


Love the Gould version. The harpsichord version leaves me cold.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I have my surgeries performed only on period instruments. Only authentic medical scalpel for me, thank you very much.


Wow, sounds like the Canadian health care system really DOES cover everything!! :lol:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Love the Gould version. The harpsichord version leaves me cold.


Just the opposite for me. I really get into the pulsating rhythm and foreboding nature of the Pinnock.


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## ido66667 (Aug 29, 2016)

I agree, HIP is best for baroque music, especially with lute music, as performance on the guitar usually butchers the pieces, depriving them of the basses and the mellow sound the lute and the resonance of the double strings.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Bulldog said:


> Just the opposite for me. I really get into the pulsating rhythm and foreboding nature of the Pinnock.


Great we have choices, eh?


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Great we have choices, eh?


Frankly I think both a beautiful.

Here's another great example. Not really related to period instruments, but certainly to how performances evolve over time and veer from the original intention of the composer. This is how Mahler conceived his Adagietto from the 5th, a fast love piece of swaying ups and downs:






Here is the Bernstein version, which is the modern version that is now used as a reference by most conductors. It is no longer so much a love piece, as it loses much of the cheerfulness of the original version. It now becomes a kind of bittersweet sad love, something that could theoretically be played at a funeral, whereas the first was truly loving and optimistic:






Both versions are brilliant, one can probably say that Bernstein didn't really "hurt" the piece, he just transformed its mood somewhat, much like Gould did to Bach.


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## Deadea (Aug 11, 2017)

Me too! Really love baroque music because its so much relaxing for me. I don't know why i am in love that kind of music.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

*HIP Bach?*

So do I! But HIP has not made me throw the Romantic era away at all. I still prefer it. Since I listened last year to the John Eliot Gardiner recordings of late Mozart symphonies for Philips (I need to visit the Pinnock ones) I was fully in love with the presence of the deep strings and timpani. Nothing can compare.
That isn't the case in Bach. I think modern instruments still do it justice. My favourite Matthäus Passion is the Harnoncourt Lamb CD, closely followed by the Karajan operatic recording. However, I must argue that the Harnoncourt instruments here do not sound to Baroque at all, probably the conducting style.


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Norma Skock said:


> You have to wonder what the composers would have done with more modern orchestras. Then again, you also have to wonder what they wouldn't have done.
> 
> Think of the following two examples. The first signals aggressiveness. The second is completely different because of the diminuendo. Both however are very emotional, just the second veers from *Bach's intentions *(although perhaps he would have liked it, we have no way of knowing).


I believe we know very little about Bach's intensions anyway. Gould's version was the first I heard and I love it (also because of Bernstein) but I'm curious about versions on contemporary instruments too.

I have no definite opinion regarding this. If I like a version I like it regardless of instrumentarium. I discovered the gretness of Kunst der Fuge by listening to Laibach's electronic version. I had failed to understand it for years and Laibach opened my ears, althought it's very peculiar and probably even incorrect. But now I love it on organ too (Alain), don't know if it's contemporary.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Deadea said:


> Me too! Really love baroque music because its so much relaxing for me. I don't know why i am in love that kind of music.


Hello Deadea, first off all, welcome to Talk Classical, any special composers from that period?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For Bach and Handel, period instruments only; for classical period, both. For Chopin, Schumann and Brahms, absolutely not.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

hpowders said:


> For Bach and Handel, period instruments only; for classical period, both. For Chopin, Schumann and Brahms, absolutely not.


Think again:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks anyway. I prefer Brahms orchestral works with modern orchestra.

However, I'm glad the HIP movement has entered the Romantic Period. It's fascinating stuff! Good for an occasional listen as far as I'm concerned.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

hpowders said:


> Thanks anyway. I prefer Brahms orchestral works with modern orchestra.
> 
> However, I'm glad the HIP movement has entered the Romantic Period. It's fascinating stuff! Good for an occasional listen as far as I'm concerned.


To each his own, but at least give it a fair chance and you may in the end find yourself preferring it, though performances that aren't historically informed will often be superior.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Improbus said:


> To each his own, but at least give it a fair chance and you may in the end find yourself preferring it, though performances that aren't historically informed will often be superior.


Thanks for your input. I will listen to your examples, posted above.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Wow, sounds like the Canadian health care system really DOES cover everything!! :lol:


Yeah, if you don't mind being on a two year waiting list for an operation. That's why many Canadians come to the US when they need immediate medical help.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Wow, sounds like the Canadian health care system really DOES cover everything!! :lol:


Yeah, if you don't mind being on a two year waiting list for an operation. That's why many Canadians come to the US when they need immediate medical help.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Just the opposite for me. I really get into the pulsating rhythm and foreboding nature of the Pinnock.


Of course you do! Trevor Pinnock is way ahead with harpsichord Bach than anything Glenn Gould has done on anachronistic piano.


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