# What is a standard symphony length in movements?



## Manok

I've been listening to the Haydn symphonies, his standard in the early ones seems to be 3, but overall I was wondering how many movements is the average symphony?


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## Klavierspieler

There isn't really a "standard," but I guess you could put down four.


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## Stargazer

Yeah, 4 is often considered the standard. That said I've heard everything from single-movement symphonies to some with around 11 (don't think I've heard any with more than that yet)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Well, early classical symphonies evolved from the three movement Italian overture (or sinfonia) which had a basic fast-slow-fast layout. The last movement was often in 3/8 time. In the 1760s and 70s and extra movement was added in between the second and last movements which was usually a minuet. By this time the last movement of the symphony didn't have to be in 3/8 time. The overall length of a typical symphony in the 1760s was usually between 10 and 20 minutes. It gradually got longer as the years went by and by Beethoven's time, the minuet had turned into a scherzo. By the late romantic era, symphonies were usually in four movement and the overall length of a typical symphony was between 35 and 50 minutes in length (excluding symphonies by Mahler and Bruckner whose symphonies usually went for an hour or more).

It is usually regarded that the symphony has three or four movements, although a lot of programmatic symphonies are in five.


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## Andy Loochazee

Manok said:


> I've been listening to the Haydn symphonies, his standard in the early ones seems to be 3, but overall I was wondering how many movements is the average symphony?


 All this basic stuff is clearly set out in Wikipedia, chapter and verse. Simply type in "symphony" and you'll find all you need to know. If you want more info, there's a ton of it available simply by pursuing the various links. I would have thought in any case that it's pretty well known, simply by common observation, that most symphonies have 3 or 4 movements, with 4 becoming the norm as the classical era progressed.


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## Hausmusik

Andy Loochazee said:


> All this *basic *stuff is clearly set out in Wikipedia, chapter and verse. *Simply *type in "symphony" and you'll find all you need to know. If you want more info, there's a ton of it available *simply *by pursuing the various links. I would have thought in any case that it's *pretty well known*, *simply *by *common *observation, that most symphonies have 3 or 4 movements, with 4 becoming the norm as the classical era progressed.


Andy, why do you have to jump down everybody's throat? I would think this is the kind of question a classical music message board is for. And since AvantGarde already answered the question very helpfully, your condescending post seems especially unnecessary.


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## Manok

What would be the fun in just looking it on wikipedia when I could ask here? and annoy andy.


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## Gorm Less

Manok said:


> I've been listening to the Haydn symphonies, his standard in the early ones seems to be 3, but overall I was wondering how many movements is the average symphony?


Depends on your definition of "movement". I can think of at least three varieties. Also I'm not familiar with "Average Symphony". Who wrote it? If it's Mozart, you could be talking about up to 45. But if it's Shostakovich, you're lucky to find 2. Please be more precise.


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## Arsakes

So the Vivaldi many violin concertos were the primitive form of symphonies?

And like Haydn he has many orchestral works.

Looking at Haydn's late Symphonies the movements have evolved to the average of 6 minutes.

Smetena's Festive symphony has four movements, each one between 11-12 minutes. It should be The standard!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^Actually, the overtures to many of his operas were the primitive form of symphony.


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