# EMI 'remastered' Karajan set



## MrCynical

I was thinking of getting a set of Beethoven's symphonies, and from my reading it seems that the 'default position' (ie for those who aren't experts and just want a Good Recording) is to buy a Karajan set. Amazon have what I am 99% sure is the early 60s recording (in a DG white box similar in design to my Barenboim set of the piano sonatas), however they also have an EMI 2008 'remastered' set, the cover of which can be seen here.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what performance this is? How would it compare in 'goodness' (however you choose to define that!) to the DG set?


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## Polednice

I don't know how they would compare because I would personally avoid all Karajan recordings! I hate his conducting style. I would go with Barenboim's cycle recorded with the Staatskapelle Berlin.


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## Aramis

> I don't know how they would compare because I would personally avoid all Karajan recordings! I hate his conducting style. I would go with Barenboim's cycle recorded with the Staatskapelle Berlin.


Do not listen to him, praise the monolith. I mean, worship <fanfares> ....::von Karajan::.... <fanfares>

60's recording doesn't lack sound quality, it's not as clear as contemporary stuff but it also doesn't spoil your enjoyment with noises and flattered symphonic sound.

Every recording of Ludwig Van symphonies by <fanfares> ...::great master Karajan och so great::... <fanfares> is magnificent, so you can't go wrong whatever this remastered set includes. But if you are not extremely extreme quality freak, do not bother and get the set that contains what you know that it is what it is. Personally I couldn't find any info about this remastered set and chance that someone here owns this one is rather weak.


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## MrCynical

Polednice said:


> I don't know how they would compare because I would personally avoid all Karajan recordings! I hate his conducting style. I would go with Barenboim's cycle recorded with the Staatskapelle Berlin.


That would be the Warner Classic one with Barenboim's picture as the cover? Darn, I knew this classical business couldn't be as simple as I thought !


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## Polednice

MrCynical said:


> That would be the Warner Classic one with Barenboim's picture as the cover? Darn, I knew this classical business couldn't be as simple as I thought !


Aye, that's the one! Whether or not some people like Barenboim's music generally, he is acknowledged as one of the foremost Beethoven interpreters of today. Plus, the modern recording means you don't have to worry about sound quality. Don't listen to the venomous likes of Aramis! Karajan would have been a genius among machines, but he had no humanity in his music


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## Aramis

I won't elaborate, even if he is going to listen to earthworm called Barenboim for now, in time he shall hear <fanfares> ....::Karajan::.... <fanfares> or Kleiber and reach salvation.


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## Artemis

THIS THREAD should make it all clear. If not, it's worth reading for a laugh.


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## Polednice

Aramis said:


> I won't elaborate, even if he is going to listen to earthworm called Barenboim for now, in time he shall hear <fanfares> ....::Karajan::.... <fanfares> or Kleiber and reach salvation.


If Kleiber counts as an alternative, then count me saved! Of course everyone must love the genius of <fanfares> ... !!!KLEIBER!!! ... <fanfares>


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## Guest

I don't have Karajan recordings of any of the symphonies other than the 9th (the '62 recording on DG), but can tell you that is a wonderful recording. I am not so much into getting cycles all by one conductor. I know that some like it, though. I really enjoy Szell's Beethoven symphonies with the Cleveland Orchestra. His conducting of the 3rd symphony gets great praise.

Not to detract from Karajan in the least, because I enjoy many of his recordings, but his recordings serve very well for people just starting with classical music. He tends to be very consistent. As you come to know the pieces better, you will likely branch out - I have multiple recordings of the 9th, and Karajan's is not my favorite, but that does not diminish the fact that it is still an excellent recording. Don't let age fool you, either. New does not always equal better. Stereo sounds light years better than mono, but a lot of the difference between stereo of the 60's and what gets produced today is more for the realm of the hardcore audiophiles to quibble over. Unless you have a high end system, and very good ears, I don't think you will be disappointed with many of the recordings made 30-50 years ago, especially now that many of those have been very skillfully remastered.


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## Tapkaara

Polednice said:


> I don't know how they would compare because I would personally avoid all Karajan recordings! I hate his conducting style. I would go with Barenboim's cycle recorded with the Staatskapelle Berlin.


What don't you like about Karajan?


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## Tapkaara

artemis said:


> this thread should make it all clear. If not, it's worth reading for a laugh.


Hehehehehehehe...HAHAHAHA...now THAT was a funny thread!


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## Polednice

Tapkaara said:


> What don't you like about Karajan?


I just find his style incredibly dry. I've never felt the urge to explore his recordings when I've been so consistently disappointed, especially as there are so many other giants to explore.


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## Aramis

Polednice said:


> I just find his style incredibly dry. I've never felt the urge to explore his recordings when I've been so consistently disappointed, especially as there are so many other giants to explore.


Too bad.

He is one for few performers that I really admire (others are just performers, better or worse). But this guy called <fanfares> ...:: Karajan ::... <fanfares> brings music to me in the greatest way possible. It's not that I simply like how he conducts, it's that some of works that I really, really, och, very, very loff wouldn't be so great, och, very, very if HE would perform them. Like Wagner's T&I. There is one fundamental divide: recording by <fanfares> ...:: Karajan ::... <fanfares> and all others.

Someone said that he is "mechanical"? Erm, it's very nice to say HEY, DON'T BE LIKE MACHINE, IT'S ALL ABOUT EMOTIONS, PASSION SRALALALALALAL!!!

But it's a fairy tale for those who are listeners only. You have to be a machine, machine with emotions, but still a machine. <fanfares> ...:: Karajan ::... <fanfares> is perfect machine with a lot of emotions.

Listen to this famous, overplayed piece by him - 



 - all conductors ale homosexual panda bears compared to him, everyone lets great power of this piece dissolve in the air with their superficial conducting, he, only he understand the power, he, only he is my brother, my master, my king... <he dies>

<the wind quietly blows in the trees> <the forum members, deeply touched, understood> <they slowly carry his body singing Verdi's Requiem>


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## Tapkaara

Polednice said:


> I just find his style incredibly dry. I've never felt the urge to explore his recordings when I've been so consistently disappointed, especially as there are so many other giants to explore.


Well, I used to say the same thing about him. My first Karajan recording was his 1960s DG recording of Beethoven 9 which lacked, in my opinion, much passison. Nowadays I am more sympathetic to this recording but it is not, in my opinion, his best recording of the symphony.

I came to appreciate Karajan when I heard his Sibelius recodings. He really gets Sibelius's idiom, I think, and must be one of the best Sibelius conductors in history. I also think he is at home in Richard Strauss.

Karajan's is a seething passion, I think. His interpretations may lack an immediatley palpable sense of the melodramatic (like his principal rival Bernstein), but there is certainly something there.


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## scytheavatar

To answer MrCynical, the box set you are looking at is the 50's mono box set. The 60's box set which everyone recommends is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Ludwig-van-Be...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1265689803&sr=8-1

I still rate the 1963 karajan set highly, but I certainly would say that you can get significantly better sound quality and argubly better interpretation in certain symphonies too. I would recommend this for a first time Beethoven set instead, cheap, incredible consistent, very good sound quality and a strong contender for best Beethoven symphony box set ever:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sym...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1265690330&sr=1-2


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## tahnak

Polednice said:


> I just find his style incredibly dry. I've never felt the urge to explore his recordings when I've been so consistently disappointed, especially as there are so many other giants to explore.


I respect your views. You may not judge Karajan. He has contributed to music in a way that most giants have not. Yes his readings may be mechanical but with ensembles like Philharmonia of London, Berlin and Vienna , yes, he may sound mechanical but not dry. The recorded sound is mostly lush and juicy.

He does not have the spirit of a Furtwangler or a Solti or Mehta but his readings could be models of initiation and talking in particular of Beethoven sets, his set of 1966 and 1973 do not have many replacements. they have to be in the collectors' editions.

The bias that you have developed may be strong with you right now. But drink a glass of cold water and give hearing to say a smaller work like Beethoven's eighth and check how he is in command of the whole ensemble, the tutti the tempi, et al.


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## Polednice

I understand and appreciate the greatness of his contributions, but his style is not one that speaks to me. Must his style speak to everyone?


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## scytheavatar

Polednice said:


> I understand and appreciate the greatness of his contributions, but his style is not one that speaks to me. Must his style speak to everyone?


In the first place, what Karajan recordings have you heard? He has left a ton of recordings, some good, some not so good, and the so called "Karajan style" has changed a lot over the years. His best recordings were before the mid 70's; after that his polished sound often became too polished for his own good. Maybe you have only heard the Karajan recordings which weren't very good?


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## Guest

Polednice said:


> I understand and appreciate the greatness of his contributions, but his style is not one that speaks to me. Must his style speak to everyone?


YES!!!!

Honestly, no. Search among the "experts" for their picks for the "greatest" recordings, and you will get almost as many different answers as there are experts, with a few rare exceptions.

Just as different periods and composers appeal to us, so too with conductors. In my exploration of Mahler recordings, that has certainly been the case.

For the current thread, though, I think the Karajan recordings of the 60's would be an excellent starting point for someone wanting a good survey of these symphonies. You have to start somewhere, and Karajan is justifiably a great place to start. Perhaps the original poster will then try some different conductors' interpretations and decide he likes a different style - or maybe Karajan will win out. Either way, Karajan gets enough good reviews that you shouldn't fear trying his recordings to start out.

Personally, I don't go much for buying "box sets" of any conductor until I am familiar enough with their style. With Beethoven, as well, you can easily get the standout symphonies for a relatively cheap price from some great conductors.

For me:
3 - Szell, Cleveland Orchestra
6 - Szell, Cleveland Orchestra
5 - Kleiber, Vienna; Immerseel, Anima Eterna
7 - Vanska
9 - Karajan '62, Gardiner


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## Tapkaara

Polednice said:


> I understand and appreciate the greatness of his contributions, but his style is not one that speaks to me. Must his style speak to everyone?


ABSOLUTELY NOT. Nor should anyone expect his style to speak to absolutely everyone. (Though, it is expected for Mozart's genius to speak to everyone, but that's another story.)


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