# More Haydn or Mozart in your collection?



## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

In reorganizing my CDs recently, I was surprised to learn that I own far more recordings of Haydn's music than Mozart's. And my Mozart collection had far more duplicated works (numerous clarinet quintets, Masses in C Minor and Symphonies in G Minor) than the Haydn; if you controlled for that, Haydn's oeuvre is far better represented. Maybe this is not that surprising given that Haydn lived a longer life & had a longer composing career. But still, I was surprised.

Am I anomalous? What's your Haydn:Mozart ratio?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Overwhelmingly Haydn. I couldn't give you an exact tally, but most of my Mozart is only in there as part of compilations or live recordings (generally from back when I had the dedication to archive the BBC Proms) whereas I have quite a few dedicated Haydn discs and sets, symphonies, string quartets, Masses etc., some HIP some "modern."


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I have just about everything that Mozart wrote -- multiple sets of the PCs and Symphonies, the quartets, the serenades and religious music, etc. To a point well beyond where even the most rabid Mozart-lover might slow down.

Still, I have far more Haydn. Just three complete sets of symphonies starts to submerge Mozart. Add in the complete piano trios and the quartets (only the number of sets necessary, of course), and Mozart is gasping for air even without going further. ;-)


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Maybe Mozart. Hard to tell.

Edit: come to think of it with operas, definitely Mozart


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Lots of both. Nowadays I get more enjoyment from Haydn, but that wasn't always the case.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Quite a bit of Haydn - c. 25 symphonies plus most of the later choral works, string quartets, piano sonatas, piano trios and a few concertos. Far more Mozart - all of the symphonies, virtually all of the chamber music apart from the early violin sonatas, most of the concertos and serenades, all of the piano sonatas and piano variations, quite a few choral works, five operas and various other bits and pieces like dances and Masonic music. I like to listen to both but Mozart often has more appeal because of the overall variety, especially as regards the chamber output.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

My catalog says I have 65 works of Haydn, 99 works of Mozart. 

I think I collected Mozart out of a weird sense of duty or something. Some of the Mozart is duplicated pieces, different performances, but not so with Haydn. 

There is a mid 1970s cycle of Haydn piano works performed by Gilbert Kalish I was trying to complete, but I lost track of where I am in that. I'd better get busy getting caught up. That would push Haydn over the top. And I don't have many of his earlier symphonies.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

I have 6.2 days of Haydn music -- 19.66 GB

I have 3.1 days of Mozart music [controlling for duplicates] -- 10.01 GB

The difference in storage space is accounted by this: when I rip from CD, I rip at 320 KBPS, but my Amazon downloads are at 192 KBPS. I have Haydn's complete divertimenti which I downloaded from Amazon, which make for an approximate space-shortfall of 370-400 MB, as the album is very extensive. Thus almost perfectly 2:1, in Haydn's favor.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Novelette said:


> . . . when I rip from CD, I rip at 320 KBPS, but my Amazon downloads are at 192 KBPS.


Not to hijack the thread, but can you tell a big difference between 320 and 256? 256 seems adequate for my aging ears and it's what I use. 192 seems a little stingy. I'll have to rethink Amazon downloads.


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## OldListener (Jan 26, 2013)

18.2 days of Haydn, 16.2 days worth of Mozart, 12.2 days of Beethoven, 4.9 days of Brahms, 4.8 days of Dvorak and 3.2 days of Schubert. Under 2 days for other composers. So, Haydn is ahead of Mozart by 48 hours.

I've found some holy grails and some are still outstanding. Of course, once I've found a holy grail recording of a work, I still want to hear what other recordings have to offer.

Bill


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Weston said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but can you tell a big difference between 320 and 256? 256 seems adequate for my aging ears and it's what I use. 192 seems a little stingy. I'll have to rethink Amazon downloads.


I believe Amazon downloads are 256K variable bit rate (VBR) which means the actual bit rate varies below 256K when a higher rate would be wasteful. Amazon downloads may measure from 190K to maybe 230K on a short-interval averaging basis if your player shows the bit rate. In general, 256K VBR should not be distinguishable from 320K CBR (constant bit rate) and saves almost half the space.

If this isn't correct, I'm sure somebody will help out!


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I have 5.7 days of Haydn and 2.7 days of Mozart in my collection - but I have quite a few cds of Mozart I haven't ripped onto my computer yet (and some Haydn ones too actually) so that isn't entirely representative.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have more Mozart than Haydn (about 2 to 1), but my list of CDs or works to buy is much longer for Haydn than Mozart. Overall I can't imagine ever having more Haydn, but I suppose he could eventually get a lot closer.


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## jtbell (Oct 4, 2012)

About 280 hours of Haydn and 210 hours of Mozart. I was actually surprised that Mozart was so close. I like him too, but I'm something of a completist and Haydn wrote so much more. Maybe I have more performances of a bunch of Mozart symphonies and concertos.

My current project on the road to "completion" with Haydn's works is the 21-CD box of baryton trios from Brilliant Classics. After the first few CDs I was thinking this is going to be a long slog, but now, since about trio #50 or #60, things are perking up a bit. Maybe Prince Nikolaus was finally starting to get something out of his baryton lessons!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Weston said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but can you tell a big difference between 320 and 256? 256 seems adequate for my aging ears and it's what I use. 192 seems a little stingy. I'll have to rethink Amazon downloads.


Between 320 and 256, I cannot hear a difference, honestly. Perhaps some people can, but I cannot. As a numbers person, I have sometimes strange affinities for certain numbers. 320 looks more "open" than 256... 256 is adequate, you're absolutely right.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

OldListener said:


> 18.2 days of Haydn, 16.2 days worth of Mozart, 12.2 days of Beethoven, 4.9 days of Brahms, 4.8 days of Dvorak and 3.2 days of Schubert. Under 2 days for other composers. So, Haydn is ahead of Mozart by 48 hours.
> 
> I've found some holy grails and some are still outstanding. Of course, once I've found a holy grail recording of a work, I still want to hear what other recordings have to offer.
> 
> Bill


Goodness, how many recordings of the symphonies, etc. have you?

My library contains Haydn's complete:

Masses, Oratorios, Piano Trios, Baryton Trios, Violin Sonatas, Piano Sonatas, Violin Duets, Symphonies, String Quartets, Divertimenti [Parthia, Feldparthie, etc.], and 8 operas. In short, I have almost 90% of Haydn's entire output, yet you have nearly three times as much.

Which recordings of the Symphonies and of the Quartets do you have?


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Mozart wins in my case, but I have many of his operas, all the piano concerti, all the symphonies, etc. With Haydn I only have a selection of the symphonies, though I have all the masses


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

3 days Mozart: 30 Mins Haydn


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## OldListener (Jan 26, 2013)

Novelette said:


> Goodness, how many recordings of the symphonies, etc. have you?


Haydn #93-102: at least 12 performances each. Mostly 15+ with 22 for #104. For the Paris symphonies 11-13 performances. For most of the rest, 4-9 performances with a minimum of 3 performances.

Too many permances to list but here are some favorites:

Sturm und Drang: Solomons/L'Estro Armonico, Blum, sometimes Brueggen
Various less recorded symphonies: Fischer, Orpheus, Hogwood, Weil, sometimes Dorati
92: Szell!
93: Szell, Jochum/LPO
94: Szell
95: Reiner/ CSO, Szell, Klemperer, Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden
96: Szell, Abbado/COE
97: Szell both stereo performances
98: Szell, Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden
99: Szell, Woldike, Leslie Jones
100: Klemperer!, Mackerras
101 Mackerras, Monteux, Goodman
102: Klemperer!, Goodman
103 Markevitch/Lamoureux Concerts Orchestra
104: Kuijken/La Petite Bande
Sinfonia Concertante: Abbado/COE!
Windsor Castle Overture: Goodman

---
Mozart #38-41: 18, 17, 29, 23 performances.

Too many to list. Some favorites:

25,28,29: Mackerras/Prague CO
34: Szell/Concertgebouw (I haven't heard another recording that comes close), Mackerras/Scottish CO (modern sound)
35: Szell
36: Leinsdorf/BSO, Casals, Hogwood
38: Mackerras/Prague CO!, Abbado, Orchestra Mozart, Vegh/Camerata Salzburg
39: Szell !, Leinsdorf/BSO
40: Szell, Britten, Wand/Guzenrich Orchestra Cologne (This was one of my first classical recordings and I still love it.)
41: Szell, several others

I don't have many duds so I listen to and enjoy almost all the Haydn and Mozart symphony performances I own. I mentioned searching for grails in my previous post.

Haydn Quartets: no sets. Festetics, Nomos, Buchbinder, Apponyi, Tokyo, Caspar da salo, Griller, Fine Arts and a few others. I have some recordings by the Kodaly and the Mosaiques Quartet and don't like either group.

I don't have all the Haydn operas or the less works such as Divertimenti or Baryton Trios. Maybe I'll get there and maybe I won't.

Bill


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I don't have a huugggee amount of any composer in my music collection, but I have much more Mozart than Haydn in my collection at the moment. I only have Haydn's cello concertos. I have Mozart's piano concertos, violin concertos, piano sonatas, Overture to the Marriage of Figaro and Clarinet quintet.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I have the Brilliant Mozart box and nothing comparable for Haydn, so that tips the scales decisively. But if we disqualify that, Mozart still wins by (I'll guess) a 3:2 ratio. But if we also disqualify opera, it's about a tie.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

My Brilliant M. Box is slightly bigger than the Brilliant H. Box, so the winner is... M!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

A lot of both, but probably a bit more Haydn.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hypothesis for discussion: 

If you have a lot more Haydn than Mozart, then you're not very interested in opera.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Well, true in my case (although I am trying again to get into opera).


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

More Mozart (complete & a lot more duplicates than Haydn, though not to the level of OldListener). 

Almost all the major Haydn works, however only 30 string quartets or so, and not the lesser known genres by him (one opera, one oratorio, no baryton trios ... but all the great masses, all symphonies, piano trios, piano sonatas, concertos).

EDIT: Forgot to mention "The Creation" & "The Seasons" as well.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Haydn and Mozart and both BIG names, but Mozart has a far higher number of popular classic hits. So he gets thought of as more popular, famous, and taken for granted that way.

Member violadude and I have discussed this: violadude says that he prefers to buy music of composers who have less recordings as there is no telling how long these will be both new and available. The more famous ones can wait. Despite the fact that Mozart has so many works that are less recorded or attended to, we probably subconsciously put him on the back burner?

Seriously, I was at the CD store today and eyeing some Mozart, and had a second thought, "I can get Mozart any old time, he can wait." The same is equally true of Haydn, but perhaps there is this subconscious thing going on...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Haydn and Mozart and both BIG names, but Mozart has a far higher number of popular classic hits. So he gets thought of as more popular, famous, and taken for granted that way.
> 
> Member violadude and I have discussed this: violadude says that he prefers to buy music of composers who have less recordings as there is no telling how long these will be both new and available. The more famous ones can wait. Despite the fact that Mozart has so many works that are less recorded or attended to, we probably subconsciously put him on the back burner?
> 
> Seriously, I was at the CD store today and eyeing some Mozart, and had a second thought, "I can get Mozart any old time, he can wait." The same is equally true of Haydn, but perhaps there is this subconscious thing going on...


That's true! I still live by that principle when it comes to Cd purchasing. The only reason I have so much Mozart is the result of coming upon some sweet deals lol.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> violadude says that he prefers to buy music of composers who have less recordings as there is no telling how long these will be both new and available. The more famous ones can wait.


That is a really, really good point.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

If one doesn´t have a particular interest in Haydn or his style, there´s no reason in having a lot by him. A selection of symphonies, the cello concertos, some of the masses and string quartets can do, IMO.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Slightly more Haydn, who for some reason I like more. & yeah, I'm not an opera fan, I don't entirely dislike that genre, but its lowest on my totem pole in terms of genres. Btw I have culled Mozart from my collection in recent years (mainly his vocal/operatic things, I dislike wig opera), but I've tended to keep what I've got of Haydn. Again, its hard to tell why, maybe similar in how some people strongly connect with one composer and not so much the other if they are one of those commonly 'paired' composers (eg. Ravel & Debussy, Bruckner and Mahler come to mind strongly in this way).


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I have access to my parents' collection of recordings. They have about the same amount of both. How could one be a Classical period lover and not have about the same of both? Mozart, Haydn are such gigantic names in our world of Classical music.

I think I have access to virtually all the pieces Mozart and Haydn wrote.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

85 hours of Haydn, 115 of Mozart.
If I take away the Mozart opera recordings the figures are much closer. I probably have far more duplications with Mozart too.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

At a glance the Mozart and Haydn collections are about the same size. There tends to be more duplicates of certain works such as Mozart's piano concertos or Haydn's London symphonies, where it would be also impossible just to have one set.

One of the issues with collecting these works and many others is the choice of period performances, so I tend to have a set for example of Haydn's piano trios on period instruments and then return to the trusted Beaux Arts set. Also, the historical sets tend to creep in, so at a minimum you are up to three different versions of the standard repertoire before your collections begins to take shape - but that's all down to choice.

Mozart's operas do tend to have a bigger space than Haydn's, but then again Haydn's sacred and choral works equal this gap, so if you are a fan of both your collection will work out about 50/50.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Wolfie....


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

If my maths is right (I'm a bit calculexic), there's 1.47 Hayden to every Mozart in my record Collection! (Having an up to date database makes it easier to tally..)

/ptr


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2013)

I haven't done an official tally, but I think Mozart holds a slight edge, although Haydn is not far behind. Honestly, I don't think I have enough of either. Classical period music - primarily Haydn and Mozart - is the fastest growing section in my personal collection. One thing I find with Haydn is that I enjoy more of his symphonies than Mozart's. Mozart's late ones, especially Hafner, Linz, 40, and 41, are my favorites from the two composers, but I don't really listen to much outside of those 4 for Mozart, whereas there is a broader range of Haydn symphonies that I enjoy, even some of the early ones.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

science said:


> Hypothesis for discussion:
> 
> If you have a lot more Haydn than Mozart, then you're not very interested in opera.


I'm not interested in Mozartian opera at least, the sound of it all just gives me a headache every time I try to listen to it. That doesn't happen to me with Verdi or Wagner or many modern or baroque operas, so I'm guessing it's just a Mozart thing.


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

I have about 130 hours of Mozart as compared to 20 hours Haydn.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Lots more Mozart. The operas - several of each. Plus the piano concertos, choral works, symphonies, serenades, etc.

I have some Haydn - the heavenly Creation (in German and English), The Seasons, trumpet concerto and some symphonies.


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

Tons more Haydn. I find something to enjoy in most everything Haydn wrote; Mozart just doesn't hit as many for me.


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## LittleSoubrette (Feb 6, 2013)

I have mainly Mozart pieces in my music library, primarily because I'm a singer and personally am more apt to listen to vocal music than instrumental works. However, the Haydn works that I do have (Trumpet Concerto in E-flat, Surprise Symphony, etc.) I absolutely adore. I should definitely look into more of his stuff.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

CDs: Haydn 31; Mozart 33. Some in each count are doubles. Were it not for my fascination with Haydn Piano Sonatas, Mozart would have "won" comfortably. No matter, I equally like both, as the CD count may suggest. :lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Happy New Year, poconoron.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I have more quartets, symphonies, and masses by Haydn than I do by Mozart. I have far more concertos, chamber works, and operas by Mozart than I do by Haydn. The only works that I have in multiple recordings by Haydn are _The Creation, The Seasons, The Seven Last Words_, a couple masses, and the _"London" Symphonies_. I have at least 5 recordings (and as many as 10) of each of Mozart's great 4 operas (_Cosi..., Le Nozze..., Don Giovanni_, and the _Magic Flute_) as well as 2 or 3 of other major operas _Idomeneo, Die Entführung aus dem Serail_, and _La clemenza di Tito_. I have a slew of recordings of the _Requiem_, the concert arias, the _Great Mass in C-minor_, the late symphonies, the clarinet quintet and concerto, and various piano concertos. Altogether I have more discs by Mozart than by any other composer... save only J.S. Bach... who dwarfs Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven combined.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Wagner has the biggest disk count in my collection.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I hardy duplicate works by composers. 
Life is far too short for that, there is so much to discover and so little time to hear it all.


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

presto, If I never duplicated works by composers and always stuck with the first I heard, I'd never have discovered Quatuor Mosaiques' Haydn quartets. I'd still be listening to the dull Kodaly versions--or more likely, not listening to them.

Nor would I have ever heard Bavouzet's Bartok or Haydn, Goode's or Fleisher's Schubert, Antoni Wit's Lutoslawski, Klemperer's Brahms, Jeremy Denk's Ligeti, Karajan's Bruckner, etc. etc.

I don't think there's an intrinsic advantage to just continually plowing through new music in a linear fashion. Also I think it's dubious to state that you have "discovered" a piece of music that you've only heard interpreted by a single musician.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Well, there is only so much time in your life. Either you spend it on hearing more different versions of the same works, or you spend it on hearing more different works. I also choose for the latter.


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

Art Rock said:


> Well, there is only so much time in your life. Either you spend it on hearing more different versions of the same works, or you spend it on hearing more different works. I also choose for the latter.


Or, you can reject that false dichotomy and choose both. You can seek out new music while also making time to listen to new interpretations of the music you care about most. You're never going to hear everything anyway.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

presto said:


> I hardy duplicate works by composers.
> Life is far too short for that, there is so much to discover and so little time to hear it all.


I think so too.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Operas not counted, they're about even. I don't have any Haydn operas, and surprisingly little vocal work, which greatly imbalances the two.



OldListener said:


> 41: Szell, several others


Wow, thank you for the Szell recommendation, I had never heard of that before; I just listened to the complete first movement and sampled the rest and it sounds great!


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

violadude said:


> I think so too.


You mean you think in false dichotomies also?


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Hausmusik said:


> Or, you can reject that false dichotomy and choose both. You can seek out new music while also making time to listen to new interpretations of the music you care about most. You're never going to hear everything anyway.


It's funny, I only buy music after I've researched it first. I don't buy on speck and I don't buy in a hurry - but I rarely duplicate. I have two versions of a few Mozart operas, but that was because I couldn't find the the most highly recommended and purchased in a hurry. And funny enough, I tend to think there's a consensus on certain recordings (for example, the Giulini Don Giovanni), and if there isn't a large consensus, I see how often works are recommended, so it makes me feel I can't really go wrong, or much better, if at all.

Other than this, I don't duplicate. Like Art Rock and Presto, I just find I don't have the time to sift through seven different versions of the PC's, the symphs, the sonatas and so on.

As for Wolfie and Papa Jo, I have more Mozart than everyone else put together, but I'm slowly and carefully expanding! I have some Haydn string quartets, but I haven't given them the attention they deserve. I'd also love to hear a good version of The Creation...:tiphat:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Weston said:


> I think I collected Mozart out of a weird sense of duty or something.


Wow, I've done the same thing; I have obtained much of my Mozart collection out of duty. But all of my Haydn is collected for pleasure. And all told, there is more Haydn there than Mozart.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

It's funny, I only buy music after I've researched it first. I don't buy on speck and I don't buy in a hurry - but I rarely duplicate. I have two versions of a few Mozart operas, but that was because I couldn't find the the most highly recommended and purchased in a hurry. And funny enough, I tend to think there's a consensus on certain recordings (for example, the Giulini Don Giovanni), and if there isn't a large consensus, I see how often works are recommended, so it makes me feel I can't really go wrong, or much better, if at all.

With a little research you can easily discern which recordings are well respected. But there are few, if any, instances in which there is anything approaching a consensus along the lines of which single recording of a major work is far and away the "best". Giulini's _Don Giovanni_ is undoubtedly one of the finest recordings... but I prefer Joseph Krips' and I would not be without Ferenc Fricsay, Karl Böhm, Rene Jacobs, and the recent Yannick Nezet-Seguin with Diana Damrau, Joyce DiDonato and Rolando Villazon. The fact is that various interpretations bring different insights, different approaches, different experiences to a what may be a well-known work. I find this especially true in opera where we have not only the vision of the conductors, but the talents of the various singers.


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## OldListener (Jan 26, 2013)

Kieran, I'm a careful buyer too. That doesn't mean that I have perfect information about available alternatives. My taste may turn out to be different from that of reviewers. In addition, some recordings might not have been available when I got my first recording of a work. New recordings may appear later and get rave reviews.

My interest in Haydn's symphonies took off in the last 80s and early 90s. At the time, there were not many alternatives for many symphonies. As more recordings appeared in CD format, I read their reviews and made more purchases. As Amazon Marketplace gave me access to out-of-production recordings at low prices, My resistance to buying more than one recordings of a work declined further. Now, I'm buying everything I want before the supply of used CDs dries up. (That supply is already drying up for some CDs such as the Vegh set of Beethoven string quartets.)

Few people would refuse to attend a concert because they had heard the works in concert once before. Why not acquire and listen to more than one recording of works you really like?

Bill


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I've got 4' 33" of Mozart in my collection.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I've got 4' 33" of Mozart in my collection.


That´s not very much ...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^Not much at all, especially when you consider the John Cage connection there......


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

On Mozart´s use of (silent) pauses: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/shaping-the-invisible/pause-for-thought


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ ah very interesting - will read up on this. 

So maybe Cage was merely following Mozarts lead to the extreme....


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

I don't have a lot of either, but Haydn wins. Mozart to me is mostly about the operas.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

I decided to see if my estimation was correct. These are all the works of Haydn and Mozart in my CD collection.

*Mozart*
Symphonies No. 25, 31, 35, 38, 39, 40 (x3), 41 (x3)

La Nozze di Figaro 2x
The Magic Flute
Don Giovanni
The Escape From The Seraglio: Overture

Requiem

Symphony Concertante for Winds (x2)
Symphony Concertante for Violin and Viola
Piano Concertos No. 2, 10, 20, 21 (x2) & 22
Violin Concertos No. 4 & 5
Clarinet Concerto 
Bassoon Concerto
Oboe Concerto (x2)

Piano Sonata with Violin Accompaniment
Piano Trio k.496
Four Piano Sonatas (K.282, 330, 332 & 457)
Oboe Quartet
Adagio k.580a
Divertimento k.251
String quartets 'Milanese' and 'The Hunt' 
Serenade No. 10 for 13 Winds "Gran Partita" (x2)
Serenade No. 11 for Winds
Serenade No. 13 "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" (x2)

*Haydn*
Symphonies No. 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, 38, 39, 41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 58, 59, 65, 88, 92, 94 (x2), 96
Oboe Concerto (x2) (probably not his)
Trumpet Concerto
Harpsichord Concerto
String Quartet Op. 33/3
Piano trio no. 43
Four piano sonatas
Violin concerto 1


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

3 to 1 in favour of Mozzy, 2 to 1 if operas are discounted. But Haydn is closing the field as I fill more gaps in his symphony list and listen to his keyboard sonatas more.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

More Mozart than Haydn by quite a bit. I don't know the numbers. That's largely owing to the Mozart operas. I love his opera music. Instrumentally, I enjoy them both about equally. I listen to Haydn more frequently though I think.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Haydn -- 2 or 3 sets of symphonies, 2 sets of trios, 2 sets of sonatas, quartets galore -- you rapidly get to the point that Mozart didn't even write that much! Weak on baryton pieces, though. Anyway, Haydn gets a lot more listening time around here.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I have more Mozart, but I am starting to really love Haydn...so that could change in the future.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

I have not counted the CDs' but for Mozart his complete oeuvre plus some repeated oeuvres in CD and DVD. I don't know how many hours, days or CDs' are there.

As for Haydn, most of his entire output: String Quartets, Piano Trios, Masses & Oratorios, Piano Sonatas, his few Concerts and the Philips edition of his named symphonies plus repeated oeuvres for String Quartets with different ensembles (Hagen, Amadeus, L'Archibudelli) and the same case for Symphonies.

I think there is more Mozart than Haydn but both of them are of the very best of the whole history of music.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Sonata said:


> I love his opera music.


Same here Sonata. I do not like Opera by any means but those of Mozart are brilliant and delightful. Idomeneo is my favourite one.


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## Plum (Mar 11, 2013)

Much more Haydn than Mozart in my collection, but then Haydn composed over 100 symphonies and wrote so many more string quartets than Mozart. With just those ouevres, there's more Haydn in my collection. But the other reason is that I simply prefer Haydn. Although I like Mozart very much, in my opinion Haydn's music is more refined and mature, and I don't listen much to opera these days.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Mozart and Haydn are rather even now - I like them both a lot!


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Plum said:


> Although I like Mozart very much, in my opinion Haydn's music is more refined and mature, and I don't listen much to opera these days.


That's a unique view. Whenever I see posters trying to describe the difference in style between Haydn and Mozart, it's usually Haydn being rough/earthy and boisterous while Mozart is mellow and refined. My piano teacher thinks Mozart's piano sonatas are generally more mellow than Haydn's.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

...you rapidly get to the point that Mozart didn't even write that much!

I used to think the same... or rather think that Haydn wrote far more music the Mozart. The reality is that Haydn's catalog lists some 750 works while Mozart's numbers just over 625. If we look at the "essential" works you get Haydn absolutely dominating when it comes to symphonies and string quartets... and even holding a solid lead in the field of choral music and piano sonatas. To me, this is the core of Haydn's oeuvre. There are a number of other works of real merit: the late piano trios, the cello concerto, and one may want a number of the baryton trios... and perhaps the last two operas: Orlando Paladino and Armida.

Mozart's "essential" works cover a broader spectrum or variety of genre. One might suggest that the operas (as well as the concert arias) and the piano concertos are the core of Mozart's repertoire... but there is much more: the late symphonies, the violin concertos, the horn concertos, the concertos for flute and harp, the clarinet concerto, the late violin sonatas, the late string quartets, the string quintets, the piano trios, the flute quartets, the quintet for winds, the "Kegelstatt" trio, the clarinet quintet, Divertimento 563, the choral works including the youthful _Exsultate, jubilate_, the "Great Mass" in C minor, the Coronation Mass, and the Requiem; the Serenades, etc...

Again, I probably have about an equal number of pieces by both Haydn and Mozart... perhaps even a few more works by Haydn. On the other hand, I certainly have quite a few more recordings of Mozart's music than Haydn's... largely based on the multiple recordings of the operas, the Requiem and Great mass, recitals of arias, the late symphonies, and favorite piano concertos.

Ultimately Bach dwarfs both of them.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Ondine said:


> Same here Sonata. I do not like Opera by any means but those of Mozart are brilliant and delightful. Idomeneo is my favourite one.


Haven't heard that one yet , but I look forward to it down the line.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...you rapidly get to the point that Mozart didn't even write that much!
> 
> I used to think the same... or rather think that Haydn wrote far more music the Mozart. The reality is that Haydn's catalog lists some 750 works while Mozart's numbers just over 625. If we look at the "essential" works you get Haydn absolutely dominating when it comes to symphonies and string quartets... and even holding a solid lead in the field of choral music and piano sonatas. To me, this is the core of Haydn's oeuvre. There are a number of other works of real merit: the late piano trios, the cello concerto, and one may want a number of the baryton trios... and perhaps the last two operas: Orlando Paladino and Armida.
> 
> ...


Haydn probably did more good music in quartets, symphony, trios, keyboard sonata, church music (?)

But in other areas Mozart may well have been more productive and that includes quite a lot from concertos, duos, wind music, light orchestral (serenades,marches, dances), quintets, opera.

Overall I wonder if Mozart was a better writer for quite a few specific instruments, certainly for wind and many would argue for voice. For keyboard some may prefer one or the other, though Mozart with his ability to use the keyboard within an orchestral context would probably give him an edge to some. And with the violin Mozart used it as a solo instrument more within concertos and sonatas than Haydn.


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## Geo Dude (May 22, 2013)

I have more Haydn in my collection, but that's because I've spent more time researching Haydn (and thus buying Haydn recordings) than Mozart. Something about an underdog...


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

trazom said:


> That's a unique view. Whenever I see posters trying to describe the difference in style between Haydn and Mozart, it's usually Haydn being rough/earthy and boisterous while Mozart is mellow and refined. _My piano teacher thinks Mozart's piano sonatas are generally more mellow than Haydn's._


This is totally true, if we think in terms of legato vs. staccato. Almost all of Haydn's major key piano sonatas begin with a staccato _eclat_, a sudden burst of energy. There are certainly a few of Mozart's that follow that pattern, but most of them begin comparatively calmly. If you are interested, I highly recommend Somfai's fantastic book on Haydn's piano sonatas!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

starry said:


> Haydn probably did more good music in quartets, symphony, trios, keyboard sonata, church music (?)
> 
> But in other areas Mozart may well have been more productive and that includes quite a lot from concertos, duos, wind music, light orchestral (serenades,marches, dances), quintets, opera.
> 
> Overall I wonder if Mozart was a better writer for quite a few specific instruments, *certainly for wind* and many would argue for voice. For keyboard some may prefer one or the other, though Mozart with his ability to use the keyboard within an orchestral context would probably give him an edge to some. And with the violin Mozart used it as a solo instrument more within concertos and sonatas than Haydn.


Definitely Mozart's works that prominently feature winds are more ambitious than Haydn's. I've listened to Haydn's many feldparties, parthias, divertimenti, wind quintet and sextet, etc. They're very simple works--and understandably so, as they were largely composed for the small, evening parties parties of his patron.

I'm not aware of the specific contexts in which Mozart composed most of his wind works, but I'm with you in thinking that Mozart was a better writer for winds. At least, his wind works strike me as more expressive and ambitious than Haydn's charming but very modest works.

But that covers only the works that are predominantly wind. The deployment of winds in symphonic contexts is a huge topic--I'd have to think on it.


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## John Kiunke (Mar 25, 2016)

I tend to buy more Haydn, but that's because I know Mozart's music much better. I enjoy much of Haydn, and since so many people say he's even better that Mozart, I feel I need to explore Haydn more. However, Mozart remains my favorite composer, probably the only one who's works I would label as "eargasmic." Gran Partita, Zauberflote, Requiem, Jupiter Symphony, etc.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Haydn leads 2 to 1 in my collection.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Though I´ve upgraded my Haydn collection in recent years, Mozart is still a favourite, with more recordings.

Beethoven and Bach lead by far, however - maybe it´s close to a tie between them.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Mozart had been way ahead in my collection when this question was first posed 3 years ago, but my continued efforts toward completism have nudged Haydn into a tiny lead.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have bought very little of either Haydn or Mozart, preferring Beethoven and others.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

My Brilliant Mozart box is slightly bigger than the Brilliant Haydn... so Mozart I guess.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I have more of Mozart's music in my collection than anyone else's, with Schubert's probably second. I have a fair bit of Haydn too but he's some way from the top of my list.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mozart leads by far at my place.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

My deficiency in Haydns was eliminated by my wife's collection when we got together. Blended, our Mozart/Haydn albums are about equal in number.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

About equal. 

Several complete Mozart keyboard concerto sets plus several complete violin concerto sets plus several Prussian and Haydn dedicated string quartet sets.

Many complete Haydn London and Paris Symphonies plus many "Creations" plus several opus 30 and opus 76 string quartets complete sets.

I'm not exactly Haydn my esteemed opinions of these two great composers.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

hpowders said:


> ...I'm not exactly Haydn my esteemed opinions of these two great composers.


:lol: Never gets old (see you're Bach, where you been Haydn etc.)


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I have more discs with Mozart and Haydn is quite behind, but then, my interest in Haydn is fairly recent. Another thing, I am not a completist and don't buy complete symphonies, chamber music and so on, I usually go for individual cd's often with mixed programme, or small boxsets. In my wishlist there's lots of Haydn though, one beautiful day when I've finally bought everything I want he may even overtake Mozart.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

znapschatz said:


> :lol: Never gets old (see you're Bach, where you been Haydn etc.)


No longer posting here regularly. Trying to do up to 4-10 posts a year, depending on the weather.


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Mozart by a landslide..........though I love Haydn as well.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

About equal. Many Haydn Symphony sets. Many Mozart keyboard concerto sets.

However, my Beethoven collection dwarfs both Mozart and Haydn collections, combined.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Few Hayden or Mozart CDs in my collection, but lots of Beethoven and Mendelssohn.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> Few* Hayden or Mozart *CDs in my collection, but lots of Beethoven and Mendelssohn.


Well what are you waiting for????


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

I have more Mozart than Haydn for sure. However, most Mozart's work can be easier to find than Haydn. Maybe Mozart has already made a crossover to the pop culture than Haydn. I buy Mozart purely because I like his music not because of the pop culture.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I have more Mozart. I've loved his music for a long time. Over the years, I've built up quite a collection.

I'm just starting to become enthusiastic about Haydn, and now I'm gradually building up a collection of his works. 

At this point, I like Mozart and Haydn about equally and I expect that soon my Haydn collection will catch up to my Mozart collection.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I have more Mozart. I've loved his music for a long time. Over the years, I've built up quite a collection.
> 
> I'm just starting to become enthusiastic about Haydn, and now I'm gradually building up a collection of his works.
> 
> At this point, I like Mozart and Haydn about equally and I expect that soon my Haydn collection will catch up to my Mozart collection.


I have more Mozart too. My prizes are the two complete solo keyboard concertos, both played on fortepiano.

Close your eyes and there's the great Mozart performing!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

pcnog11 said:


> I have more Mozart than Haydn for sure. However, most Mozart's work can be easier to find than Haydn. Maybe Mozart has already made a crossover to the pop culture than Haydn. I buy Mozart purely because I like his music not because of the pop culture.


Do you rally think it's a pop culture, I think it has al the do with the glorious music.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Do you rally think it's a pop culture, I think it has al the do with the glorious music.


I agree with pcnog11, Mozart is much better known than Haydn in popular culture. Several pop singers, including Mariah Carey and Sting, have performed Mozart arias (very badly).

As far as I know, pop singers have never performed any Haydn songs.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I agree with pcnog11, Mozart is much better known than Haydn in popular culture. Several pop singers, including Mariah Carey and Sting, have performed Mozart arias (very badly).
> 
> As far as I know, pop singers have never performed any Haydn songs.


I think MC and Sting are in hiding. Trump vowed to set a wolf gang on them.


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

I like both composers, and I haven't consciously favored one over the other. Out of curiosity, I checked to see how much hard drive space each one occupies. Of course, bit rates may vary, so these numbers just give an approximate idea.

For audio recordings, I seem to have more by Mozart, but the two are competitive (17 gigabytes for Mozart, and 13 for Haydn). However, when I include video recordings, Mozart comes out far ahead (250 gigabytes for Mozart, and 7 for Haydn). I copy DVD images directly to my hard drive and don't compress them further, so they take up a lot of space. Although I don't have a strong preference for either one of these composers over the other, video recordings of Mozart's operas are quite plentiful, while there aren't all that many video recordings of any of Haydn's music, so it isn't surprising that Mozart would be overrepresented in this area.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bettina said:


> I agree with pcnog11, Mozart is much better known than Haydn in popular culture. Several pop singers, including Mariah Carey and Sting, have performed Mozart arias (very badly).
> 
> As far as I know, pop singers have never performed any Haydn songs.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thanks for that, missed that bit, never heard those songs , I'll keep it that way.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

So far Haydn. I have multiple versions of some of Haydn's works, such as The London Symphonies, The Creation, The Seasons, Op. 76 and some of Haydn's Sonatas. Always come back to this Great composer with a corresponding amount of pleasure .


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I am hidin' from Haydn but have plenty of Moe's art in my Three Stooges video collection.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

_As far as I know, pop singers have never performed any Haydn songs._

...never heard those songs , I'll keep it that way.

I've never heard any Pop singers perform Haydn's songs... but Elly Ameling does a marvelous job at them:


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## trupiosz (Nov 24, 2016)

In my CD collection Haydn wins, 15:14


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

trupiosz said:


> In my CD collection Haydn wins, 15:14


You have to buy another Mozart disk and even it up.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

trupiosz said:


> In my CD collection Haydn wins, 15:14


 That is a very close call.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> That is a very close call.


Right. Did he count disks or just sets. Maybe he should count total time for each composer. It might come out different. Sort of like popular votes vs Electoral College votes--oops! I should not induce more political discussion on TC. Sorry.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I think there is no Haydn in my collection (or it must have surreptitiously crept in) but more Mozart than I can really account for. Some of that Mozart is great nevertheless.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2016)

It's Mozart over Haydn by at least 10 to 1. Yes I have a lot of duplicates - for instance I have 11 different recordings of the 20th Piano Concerto K466 - but I like it that way. I have almost everything Mozart wrote, although I don't listen to most of it.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

My collection is like a soccer game score. Mozart 2/ Haydn 0. I have nos. 40 & 41 by Blomstedt, and the wind concertos CD on DG.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Considerably more Haydn as I generally prefer his work to Mozart's. Particular favourites include Symphony 6 ("Le Matin"), Symphony 38 ("Echo"), Symphony 44 ("Trauer"), Symphony 59 ("Fire") and Symphony 64 ("Tempora Mutantur"). His keyboard concerto in D major (Hob. XVIII/11) is superior to any of Mozart's keyboard concertos, in my opinion. That said, I'll admit that Mozart probably had the edge over Haydn when it came to string quartets. All personal taste at the end of the day really.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I'd be interested to know the basis for your opinion that Haydn's admittedly lovely D major keyboard concerto "is superior to any of Mozart's". You end your post by referring to personal taste, but using the term "superior" doesn't really chime in with that.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I'd be interested to know the basis for your opinion that Haydn's admittedly lovely D major keyboard concerto "is superior to any of Mozart's". You end your post by referring to personal taste, but using the term "superior" doesn't really chime in with that.


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause any offence. When I call it "superior", that's purely in my opinion. Poor choice of words on my part perhaps and I'm aware that Mozart massively outsells Haydn so I must be in a minority holding that view. I just never tire of listening to it whereas Mozart's keyboard concertos don't hold quite the same appeal for me although I do have a special fondness for his 15th keyboard concerto for some reason, particularly the last movement.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I'd be interested to know the basis for your opinion that Haydn's admittedly lovely D major keyboard concerto "is superior to any of Mozart's". You end your post by referring to personal taste, but using the term "superior" doesn't really chime in with that.


It's seems an odd view - but I also know Haydn stalwarts that dont rate any Mozart at all - so not too surprising. I suppose all one can say is posterity seems not, on the whole, to agree that Haydn's D major pc is in the top league like many of Mozart's concertos.
I also like the Haydn pc - shame he didnt write more - but I would place it as maybe equal to some of Mozart's earlier genuine piano concertos - the 5th, 6th, 8th. and maybe one or two of the later concertos such as the 16th.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

32 discs for Haydn, 26 for Mozart. Not surprised; I like both a great deal but Haydn quite a bit more, at least at this point in my life (has been so for some years, though).


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I believe I'm about equal in both. Many complete Haydn London/Paris Symphonies offset by multiple sets of the complete Mozart keyboard concertos.

I wish Mozart wrote symphonies as well as Haydn and on the other hand, I wish Haydn wrote keyboard concertos as well as Mozart.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> 32 discs for Haydn, 26 for Mozart. Not surprised; I like both a great deal but Haydn quite a bit more, at least at this point in my life (has been so for some years, though).


Lets be glad we all can do what like, it's called democracy.


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## satoru (May 29, 2014)

Haydn overwhelmingly wins with 4 complete symphony sets, 6 complete string quartet sets, 2 trios, 1 opera, 1 piano sonatas and other partial sets. Amazingly, Bach still wins over Haydn. No wonder my wife says "No more CDs!"


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Slightly more Mozart than Haydn in my collection but both are great.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I just do quick Windows Media Player count, I have 36 hours of Haydn and 34.7 hours of Mozart. Guess both are equally numbered in my library.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Lets be glad we all can do what like, *it's called democracy*.


No - democracy means the minority having to submit to the will of the majority.

You are thinking of liberty.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

chill782002 said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause any offence. When I call it "superior", that's purely in my opinion. Poor choice of words on my part perhaps and I'm aware that Mozart massively outsells Haydn so I must be in a minority holding that view. I just never tire of listening to it whereas Mozart's keyboard concertos don't hold quite the same appeal for me although I do have a special fondness for his 15th keyboard concerto for some reason, particularly the last movement.


Oh, there's no offence involved, I can assure you. It would be a boring old world if we all liked the same things!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Hausmusik said:


> In reorganizing my CDs recently, I was surprised to learn that I own far more recordings of Haydn's music than Mozart's. And my Mozart collection had far more duplicated works (numerous clarinet quintets, Masses in C Minor and Symphonies in G Minor) than the Haydn; if you controlled for that, Haydn's oeuvre is far better represented. Maybe this is not that surprising given that Haydn lived a longer life & had a longer composing career. But still, I was surprised.
> 
> Am I anomalous? What's your Haydn:Mozart ratio?


About equal.

Mozart: I have two complete sets of the keyboard concertos, several sets of the piano sonatas, violin concertos, many string quartet recordings, many recordings of Don Giovanni, Marriage of Figaro and Cosí fan tutte.

Haydn: Many sets of both the Paris and London Symphonies, many recordings of The Creation, many string quartet recordings many recordings of the Late Masses.

I would estimate that I have equal amounts of recordings of both composers, give or take a few CDs.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

More Haydn for me. The complete SQ box alone outnumbers all the combined Mozart CDs that I have.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

satoru said:


> Haydn overwhelmingly wins with *4 complete symphony sets, 6 complete string quartet sets*, 2 trios, 1 opera, 1 piano sonatas and other partial sets. Amazingly, Bach still wins over Haydn. No wonder my wife says "No more CDs!"


Goodness! how do you manage to listen to it all?


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