# How do they keep singing?



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Much is required of opera singers these days. Off the top of my head, I have seen them required to perform while:

•	rolling and unrolling themselves in a piece of cloth (Admeto)
•	suspended upside down by their ankles from a crane (Gotterdamerung)
•	under a car, wielding a spanner (different Admeto)
•	Leaping from shoulder to shoulder (Armida)
•	Ironing and folding clothes (la Fille du regiment)
•	Bollywood dancing (Giulio Cesare)
•	Having their privates fondled (Tosca)
•	Abseiling (though not actually singing at the time) (Don Giovanni, Carmen)

How do they do it and keep singing?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

-Lying face down in a bed (makropolous case)
- while appearing to hang by their neck from a noose (fanciulla Della west)


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Much is required of opera singers these days. Off the top of my head, I have seen them required to perform while:
> 
> •	rolling and unrolling themselves in a piece of cloth (Admeto)
> •	suspended upside down by their ankles from a crane (Gotterdamerung)
> ...


Indeed. Much of the nonsense we sometimes see these days, especially of the Baroque and Classical examples you listed, are the result of the ego and poor taste of the stage directors. Bollywood dancing and wielding a spanner under a motor car have nothing to do with Baroque aesthetics and worst of all, may even interfere by way of distracting the emotional flow of the music; staging is subervient to the music, not the other way around. Thank goodness we can at least listen to many of these masterpieces under HIP, while the staging is certainly not the case. Economics have a lot to do with it - the more controversial the staging, the more likely a wide ranging audience and tickets can be sold.

A _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ production I saw several years ago here in Sydney had Yvonne Kenny (Cleopatra) undressing completely behind a large bathrobe held by Graham Pushee (Cesare) and bathe in a spa bath on stage! It was amusingly conveyed, and the audience giggled. But is this the correct mood for a Baroque _opera seria_, of which _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ clearly is?

How do they do it and keep singing? I'm afraid it's often under the ill taste of the stage directors.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I've seen a male opera singer sing his heart out while (intentionally) showing off his erection. A little too much for me.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

How do they do it? These singers are real pros !


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Much is required of opera singers these days. Off the top of my head, I have seen them required to perform while:
> 
> • rolling and unrolling themselves in a piece of cloth (Admeto)
> • suspended upside down by their ankles from a crane (Gotterdamerung)
> ...


*Look at Netrebko at 2:16 point of this youtube from Puritani* 
she lays down and lets her head hang backwards over edge of the stage.......while still singing!

Try to sing with your head tilted all the way back, extremely hard


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Indeed. Much of the nonsense we sometimes see these days, especially of the Baroque and Classical examples you listed, are the result of the ego and poor taste of the stage directors. Bollywood dancing and wielding a spanner under a motor car have nothing to do with Baroque aesthetics and worst of all, may even interfere by way of distracting the emotional flow of the music; staging is subervient to the music, not the other way around. Thank goodness we can at least listen to many of these masterpieces under HIP, while the staging is certainly not the case. Economics have a lot to do with it - the more controversial the staging, the more likely a wide ranging audience and tickets can be sold.


I was not actually condemning it all wholesale. In many of the cases I mentioned - all except one of the Admetos and the Tosca, I enjoyed the stagings immensely, and such HIP luminaries as William Christie were often in the pit.

The Admeto I'm currently watching is set in 18th Japan, and the stylised movements and samurai ethos actually fit in well with the story, possibly better than some ego-led castrato bringing his own befeathered costume and insisting on interpolating his own aria di bravura just because he could.

The bass dancing on his minions' shoulders was the Armida's demon King, and his athletic prowess was entirely in character, while Keenlyside's Don Giovanni scaled up a wall on the end of a rope in order to escape from his accusers.

Of course in some cases it gets beyond a joke, as when Achim Freyer put his Ring singers in such cumbersome costumes they could hardly walk and certainly couldn't act, and then claimed "The psychological dimension is outsourced to other forms of expression".



HarpsichordConcerto said:


> A _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ production I saw several years ago here in Sydney had Yvonne Kenny (Cleopatra) undressing completely behind a large bathrobe held by Graham Pushee (Cesare) and bathe in a spa bath on stage! It was amusingly conveyed, and the audience giggled. But is this the correct mood for a Baroque _opera seria_, of which _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ clearly is?


From what I recall from lectures at university by Leslie Mitchell, a historian of the 18th century, the audience might have been indulging in a fair amount of licentiousness amongst themselves. And during the opera seria there would have been plenty of eating, drinking, gambling, gossiping and flirting.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> From what I recall from lectures at university by Leslie Mitchell, a historian of the 18th century, the audience might have been indulging in a fair amount of licentiousness amongst themselves. And during the opera seria there would have been plenty of eating, drinking, gambling, gossiping and flirting.


Yes, that's true. These were social evenings for high society back then. But that's got nothing to do with stage director these days to come up with half silly stuff on stage. Also, HIP luminaries in the orchestral pit have little to no say about what happens on the stage.

Many modern productions (with HIP in the orcestral pits) are beautifully done, but you do get the wild cowboy productions every now and then.

An excellent _Xerxes_


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Many modern productions (with HIP in the orcestral pits) are beautifully done, but you do get the wild cowboy productions every now and then.


Yes, I don't know why some stage directors these days are so obsessed with setting operas in any period you can think of, except for the one the composer intended. If it works I don't have a problem with it, but often it doesn't make any sense and it's like watching the movie Spartacus with everyone wearing a tophat and tails. Alan once posted something about a production of Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung" where believe it or not Superman and Wonderwoman made an appearance.....I mean, really. How silly can you get?

I love the Glyndebourne "Giulio Cesare" and Andrei Serban's production of Rameau's "Les Indes Galantes" with Christie conducting though.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Yes, I don't know why some stage directors these days are so obsessed with setting operas in any period you can think of, except for the one the composer intended. If it works I don't have a problem with it, but often it doesn't make any sense and it's like watching the movie Spartacus with everyone wearing a tophat and tails. Alan once posted something about a production of Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung" where believe it or not Superman and Wonderwoman made an appearance.....I mean, really. How silly can you get?
> 
> I love the Glyndebourne "Giulio Cesare" and Andrei Serban's production of Rameau's "Les Indes Galantes" with Christie conducting though.


Agree. I have a copy of the Glyndebourne on DVD. It works very well there. It's all a matter of artistic taste on the part of the stage director. I don't want to sound overtly harsh but the Superman/Wonderwoman example was clearly rubbish; it served no useful purpose other than be a complete distraction.

Historic Baroque opera also relied on spectacular staging. We read of real animals on stage, singers flying and lifted by heavenly forces on chariots etc., with fountains/water features, fire, snow effects etc. But these were all part of the mythical story line for example, when needed. Baroque staging back then almost certainly did not have a pharoah of Egypt dressed up as an 18th century stylised warrior; the actors looked the part and the staging complemented it.

The distinction between a modern staging that conveys the emotions of the characters must indeed be a fine one, otherwise what we end up experiencing is an _adaptation_ of the original opera, at least on stage.

Here's one that I think is rubbish. What does a woman's high heel shoe have to do with it and all the entrance & exits of other characters have to do with it? Absolutely nothing. (Luckily though, sang and played very well by HIP with David Daniels).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Here's one that I think is rubbish. What does a woman's high heel shoe have to do with it and all the entrance & exits of other characters have to do with it? Absolutely nothing. (Luckily though, sang and played very well by HIP with David Daniels).


That Rinaldo is definitely the pits. It's set in the lounge of a seedy Tel Aviv hotel and there is all that mysterious religious imagery. Everyone is dressed like a second hand car salesman or crackpot preacher and the production is all about the director thumbing his nose at the audience. I also seem to remember someone having to sing while "crucified" to the wall.



HarpsichordConcerto said:


> An excellent _Xerxes_


I've got that in my "to watch" queue. Looks great.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

They didn't know how lucky they were in the old p&b days. They did sometimes wear heavy costumes though which must have been uncomfortable.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> They didn't know how lucky they were in the old p&b days.


I've just watched an interview with the singer required to roll around in a piece of cloth while singing her aria and she said it was "great fun, an opportunity to go a bit mad".

Unfortunately plenty of p&b still goes on, you just have to watch Johan Botha in practically anything.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

DarkAngel said:


> *Look at Netrebko at 2:16 point of this youtube from Puritani*
> she lays down and lets her head hang backwards over edge of the stage.......while still singing!
> 
> Try to sing with your head tilted all the way back, extremely hard


Just seen that - she must have some serious abs under that pretty dress!


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Just seen that - she must have some serious abs under that pretty dress!


On the DVD between acts Renee Fleming goes into Anna Netrebko's dressing room and they talk shop, she speaks pretty good English but a bit broken, seems she pretty much does things almost intuitively on stage during Puritani mad scence......so that hanging over the edge might not have been planned ahead (although camera seemed to be ready, he he)

She does admit to listening to great past performances for inspiration (almost certainly Callas) and borrowing bits here and there......which is the smart thing to do. I laugh at some artists who claim they do not watch past performances since they want a fresh take on things, okkkkkk


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

DarkAngel said:


> I laugh at some artists who claim they do not watch past performances since they want a fresh take on things, okkkkkk


It's possible that they don't watch past performances once they know the're going to sing a role, but it's inevitable that they have heard and/or seen it in the past, and if it's a popular opera probably countless times at that.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

*Anna Netrebko is a specialist*

She sang in all possible positions in her 2005 Salzburg La Traviata.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Great post from Andrew Richards about the difficulties of multitasking. He's currently singing the title role in a controversia production of Parsifal at la Monnaie.

_"Some deep breathing and occasional swearing in front of a mirror later…went out for Act 2 and had fun. Sure there were some boneheaded musical moments. But seriously, who can blame me for messing up lines when I'm untying a half naked, white painted woman. Most of what I'm thinking is "Don't brush up against the boobs with your hand. Aw nuts. I just did. Oh crap, I just missed the cue. Where am I? Oh yeah. 'Erlösung.' Wait, how do I untie THIS knot? Dang it Dasniya. How much rope IS there? Shoot, I just touched the knockers again. Sorry! 'Mit diesen Zeichen bann ich deinen Zauber…'""_

Lucky it's not Alma, he'd have to stop warbling and _really _concentrate.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Great post from Andre Richards about the difficulties of multitasking. He's currently singing the title role in a controversial production of Parsifal at la Monnaie.
> 
> _"Some deep breathing and occasional swearing in front of a mirror later…went out for Act 2 and had fun. Sure there were some boneheaded musical moments. But seriously, who can blame me for messing up lines when I'm untying a half naked, white painted woman. Most of what I'm thinking is "Don't brush up against the boobs with your hand. Aw nuts. I just did. Oh crap, I just missed the cue. Where am I? Oh yeah. 'Erlösung.' Wait, how do I untie THIS knot? Dang it Dasniya. How much rope IS there? Shoot, I just touched the knockers again. Sorry! 'Mit diesen Zeichen bann ich deinen Zauber…'""_
> 
> Lucky it's not Alma, he'd have to stop warbling and _really _concentrate.


I felt sure you'd be following this with great interest. I have, in turn, laughed and cried at some of Andrew Richards' comments. What an amazing insight in the life & trials of an opera singer.

Are these real or mannequins?


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Natalie Dessay, who also sings in any manner of positions (just to use Orphee aux Enfers as an example, while laying upside down on a couch and while bouncing up and down on that same couch (try singing while bouncing in your chair -- how much breath control must she have to be able to maintain a consistent tone!?)) from an interview:

_Operanet: When I saw you in the role of Ophélie in Hamlet (by Ambroise Thomas) in Geneva, I wrote that you sang in just about any position other than one comfortable for singing.

ND: Definitely, because if you want to sing without moving around, all you have to do is give concerts.

Operanet: Yes, but if you are all twisted?

ND: It's harder, but it's more fun. It's more amusing, and I think that physical expression is also part of the theater. You shouldn't hesitate to act as in real life. You don't always stand with your feet firmly planted to say what you want or do what you want. You use your body in all sorts of positions depending on whether you are suffering, you're happy, and in fact you don't even think about it. You don't say, "I'm going to put my feet up against the wall because it will be fun". No, it's because you think it is important for the character to let himself go physically at that moment. _


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Lucky it's not Alma, he'd have to stop warbling and _really _concentrate.


It depends. Who was she?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> I felt sure you'd be following this with great interest. I have, in turn, laughed and cried at some of Andrew Richards' comments. What an amazing insight in the life & trials of an opera singer.


It's a really good blog, devastatingly honest.



sospiro said:


> Are these real or mannequins?


I think they are real. One of these ladies was probably untied at some point by multi-tasking Andrew.

Looking at the other production photos it seems a very intriguing and often beautiful production. We should send Gaston to investigate it, he is probably closest to La Monnaie.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> It's a really good blog, devastatingly honest.
> 
> I think they are real. One of these ladies was probably untied at some point by multi-tasking Andrew.
> 
> Looking at the other production photos it seems a very intriguing and often beautiful production. We should send Gaston to investigate it, he is probably closest to La Monnaie.


They look real to me. See, the lady on the left has some sort of stasis in her leg due to a tight knot. Not erotic, though. Rather disturbing. I'm not sure I'd like this production, even though there are boobs. You know, I treat ladies very nicely. They are precious beings. I don't like all this violence against them.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Newest one: try singing the role of Kundry with an alligator head on:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Newest one: try singing the role of Kundry with an alligator head on:


I think we should start a worldwide boycott of out-of-control Regietheater-minded stage directors. We should contact all our counterparts throughout the world (I know of a French and an Italian site), start a manifest, collect signatures, ask people to refrain from buying tickets and DVDs for these productions. No, seriously, I know it won't ever happen, but I need to vent, I get so mad!

Singers don't like them (I've read many interviews in this sense). Most fans don't like them. Why, oh why do they continue to thrive? Who are the fools who patronize these idiots???


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

The problem is defining _out of control_. I think anything that robs the singer's or actor's dignity or ability is one criterion, like the above production.

But reading Andrew Richards' blog, it seems that despite the difficulties he quite enjoyed being part of the two regie Parsifals he sang in.

As a viewer there are definitely some Regie productions I have enjoyed, the most recent being Claus Guth's Don Giovanni (will write about it soon). (Same for you Alma, Satzburg La Traviata for example). Particularly for a piece which is frequently staged or I know very well, I enjoy being challenged, within boundaries of respect for the music and the singers. And there are some traditional productions I dislike because they are so boring.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> The problem is defining _out of control_. I think anything that robs the singer's or actor's dignity or ability is one criterion, like the above production.
> 
> But reading Andrew Richards' blog, it seems that despite the difficulties he quite enjoyed being part of the two regie Parsifals he sang in.
> 
> As a viewer there are definitely some Regie productions I have enjoyed, the most recent being Claus Guth's Don Giovanni (will write about it soon). (Same for you Alma, Satzburg La Traviata for example). Particularly for a piece which is frequently staged or I know very well, I enjoy being challenged, within boundaries of respect for the music and the singers. And there are some traditional productions I dislike because they are so boring.


True. But there were no crocodile heads in the Salzburg La Traviata. Tasteful updates are fine, out-of-control big ego stage director's BS is another matter. And besides, the main reason I love the Salzburg La Traviata has more to do with a certain soprano than with the production.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Diana Damrau does the splits in "1984". She's only pretending to sing at this point, but still, I was impressed!


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I usually sort by:
- does it still make sense with the music?
- are the sets and costumes good-looking? - if not, instant boo
- did they leave the story as it is?
- is it just for pissing off bourgeois or is it a coherent, logical arc?
- is it real theatre or just the same old standing-and-singing in modern costumes?
- does it have Star Wars/Star Trek references? - instant love
- does the STORY make sense in modern time?


I think mythos (Wagner or ancient) can be easily adapted but romantic medieval/19th century stuff is hard. Unless you make fun of it and hang lampshades.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> - does it have Star Wars/Star Trek references? - instant love


Seriously? Then you'll love the Gergiev Les Troyens with spaceships, Star troopers, and Rome being another planet awaiting colonization.

I'm pretty sure I'll hate it.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Sieglinde said:


> I usually sort by:
> - does it still make sense with the music?
> - are the sets and costumes good-looking? - if not, instant boo
> - did they leave the story as it is?
> ...


I'm not a Star Wars/Star Trek fan, but otherwise, these seem like very sensible guidelines for separating the thoughful non-conventional stagings from the Regie-Rubbish.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I saw a non-traditional _L'elisir d'amore_ & at first I thought I'd hate it but by the end I loved it



He carried on climbing & sang _Una furtiva_ absolutely beautifully from up there


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