# Das Lied von Der Erde



## DavidA

This great symphonic song cycle us a great favourite. What are your chosen recordings?


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## wkasimer

DavidA said:


> This great symphonic song cycle us a great favourite. What are your chosen recordings?


Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich
Bertini/Lipovsek/Heppner
Haitink/Baker/King
Krips/Fischer-Dieskau/Wunderlich
Kubelik/Baker/Kmentt
Giulini/Fassbaender/Araiza (one of the live ones, which I prefer to the commercial DG)


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## amfortas

wkasimer said:


> Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich


I second that emotion.


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## 89Koechel

The oldest of favorites - Patzak, the late Kathleen Ferrier, with Walter. … Also, Alfreda Hodgson and John Mitchinson, with Horenstein.


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## Rangstrom

All of my favorites have already been mentioned. On top would most likely be Walter, but which one? Besides Ferrier, Patzak, I also enjoy Thorberg, Kullmann and Miller, Haeflinger.

Not as a first (or even 5th) choice but try to hear Norman, Vickers, Davis at least once. Vickers will either leave you exhalted or annoyed, but not bored.


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## DavidA

Rangstrom said:


> All of my favorites have already been mentioned. On top would most likely be Walter, but which one? Besides Ferrier, Patzak, I also enjoy Thorberg, Kullmann and Miller, Haeflinger.
> 
> Not as a first (or even 5th) choice but try to hear *Norman, Vickers, Davis at least onc*e. Vickers will either leave you exhalted or annoyed, but not bored.


I heated this year's ago in a televised version. vickers appeared fathoms out of his depth. The songs did not suite his voice at all.


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## Granate

This was one of the most useless chapters in my Mahler Challenges.

Nothing could ever reach the indescribable quality of the Klemperer NPO recording. It's the only I own and almost the only one I would ever listen to. I have positive comments for other recordings, especially Giulini BPO DG (Orfeo Live recording benefits Fassbaender less than DG lifts up Araiza).

For a Tenor/Baritone option:
Bernstein WPO
Mehta MPO/Rattle CBSO


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## Guest

I love this work. I have numerous recordings which I treasure.

My favorite would have to be the live Kubelik/BRSO recording on Audite with Baker and Kmentt.
Klemperer, as so often is the case, is also a favorite, with Ludwig and Wunderlich.
I actually listen to the Reiner/CSO recording quite a bit.
And finally, I really like the all male voices recording of Bernstein, Fischer-Dieskau and King.


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## Kiki

I have an obsession with Der Abschied, especially the orchestral interlude at the middle of it. Have to confess I often skip directly to the last movement. And it is Tennstedt/Baltsa/König 82/84 that absolutely got me smitten in this interlude.

I need to mention Karajan/Ludwig/Kollo 75. Not the greatest Das Lied for sure; but IMO the coolness and impassiveness suit the music very well. And there's one thing that Karajan did better than everybody else - get rid of the pseudo-Chinese-ness, which I find annoying. (Try Von der Jugend.)

There are lots of recordings that I like, Walter 36 Live, Klemperer 64/66, Kleiber 67 Live, Kubelik 70 Live, Nott 16 (Tudor, not the DG one please!), Rattle 18 Live, and all of those that have got Christa Ludwig.

I also like to mention two unusual ones.

Katsaris/Fassbaender/Moser 89 - Piano version with a glorious Fassbaender. (Ah I need to go get the chamber version as well...)

Lan Shui/Ning Liang/Warren Mok 05 - Sung in Cantonese with painstaking research into re-identifying the original text from the "freely-patched" text that Mahler used. TBH I don't particularly warm to the performance, but it's really interesting to listen to this "academic" research, even though how disjoint the text and music have become has to be heard to believe.


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## wkasimer

Kiki said:


> Nott 16 (Tudor, not the DG one please!),


I think that you meant Sony, not DG. The Sony is the dreadful one with Kaufmann singing both tenor and baritone, neither very well.



> (Ah I need to go get the chamber version as well...)


Try this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Schoenberg-Das-Lied-Erde/dp/B000N2H84G


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## Kiki

wkasimer said:


> I think that you meant Sony, not DG. The Sony is the dreadful one with Kaufmann singing both tenor and baritone, neither very well.
> 
> Try this one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Schoenberg-Das-Lied-Erde/dp/B000N2H84G
> 
> View attachment 111927


Yes, you're right. Silly me. Thanks for pointing that out!

Thanks for the recommendation! I should seriously start researching the chamber version, which I keep putting it aside. :lol:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

DavidA said:


> I heated this year's ago in a televised version. vickers appeared fathoms out of his depth. The songs did not suite his voice at all.


Was that a Proms performance? If it was the same one I saw (and winced at), then it wasn't helped by the fact that Vickers' voice was knackered and well past its glorious prime. I remember discussing it with my singing teacher the next day, and he was as saddened by this performance as I was.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Anyhow, my top five:

1. Klemperer, Ludwig, Wunderlich
2. Walter, Ferrier, Patzak
3. Reiner, Forrester, Lewis
4. Haitink, Baker, King
5. Kletzki, Fischer-Dieskau, Dickie

Honourable mention to the revelatory piano version by Cyprien Katsaris, Brigitte Fassbaender and Thomas Moser.


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## CnC Bartok

My favourite two, a toss up between

Kubelík on Audite
Haitink. Both have Dame Janet. 'Nuff said....

Klemperer is also wonderful (but I prefer Baker to Ludwig by a tiny minuscule amount, which is a clincher)

I reckon the alternative with a baritone is equally valid, here I'd go for
Bernstein on Decca (DFD!)
Rattle
Kletzki

I quietly like the chamber version on Naxos (Schoenberg's arrangement, conducted by the so-far on record unfaultable JoAnn Falletta)


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Robert Pickett said:


> I quietly like the chamber version on Naxos (Schoenberg's arrangement, conducted by the so-far on record unfaultable JoAnn Falletta)


I don't have that one. Must explore!

PS: I think that DFD is in much better voice on the Kletzki recording, and Murray Dickie trumps James King (Bernstein) and Peter Seiffert (Rattle).


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## DavidA

Granate said:


> This was one of the most useless chapters in my Mahler Challenges.
> 
> Nothing could ever reach the indescribable quality of the Klemperer NPO recording. It's the only I own and almost the only one I would ever listen to. I have positive comments for other recordings, especially Giulini BPO DG (Orfeo Live recording benefits Fassbaender less than DG lifts up Araiza).
> 
> ]


I don't think it is quite as cut and dried as you seem to beleve. No question that K has the best singers but it's interesting that when Klemperer and Bernstein came out Deryck Cooke said how much he enjoyed Bernstein to the 'frowningly ponderous' K. One tremendous advantage that K has us two superb singers - probably the best who've ever sung this music. Some of his tempi are distracting slow in the tenor songs. Having said that, it would be my favoured version. But a bit more if a close run thing than yours!


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## wkasimer

DavidA said:


> One tremendous advantage that K [Klemperer] has is two superb singers - probably the best who've ever sung this music.


I don't think that I'd go quite that far. It's certainly true that Klemperer's soloists are among the best on record, and it is probably the recording with the best *pair*. But there are individual mezzos I prefer to Ludwig in this music (Fassbaender and Baker) and one tenor (Heppner, in the recording with Bertini).


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## realdealblues

One of my few Desert Island Discs









Leonard Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic with James King and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.

I have to disagree with Reichstag aus LICHT, as I think James King is in absolute perfect form and exactly what Mahler had in mind. Murray Dickie does a very respectable job but King beats him hands down. This is an album I wish I could be buried with playing in the background for all time. Bernstein and Vienna are perfect together with gorgeous sound. I will concede DFD is in better voice with Kletzki but the combination of Bernstein, the Vienna Philharmonic and King gives this one 3 legs up over any others for the Tenor/Baritone recordings in my book.

Kletzki is very well done and certainly recommendable. Of course the classic recordings from Klemperer, Haitink & Reiner are all worthy of the praise they receive. Kubelik's live recording on Audite is fantastic. Eugen Jochum's recording is a real sleeper. Gielen has a good one, as does Kurt Sanderling and Bertini. There's lots of good ones out there and I like quite a lot of them, but my favorite is obvious and the one I return to most often.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

realdealblues said:


> I have to disagree with Reichstag aus LICHT, as I think James King is in absolute perfect form and exactly what Mahler had in mind. Murray Dickie does a very respectable job but King beats him hands down.


I like James King (indeed, I have his recording with Haitink in 4th place) but, if I'm going to listen to a recording of DLVDE with two male soloists, I like to have more of a contrast between baritone and tenor. Dickie wasn't as spectacular a singer as James King, of course, but his lighter, sweeter timbre works well against Fischer-Dieskau's baritone... as does Julius Patzak's as a counterweight to Kathleen Ferrier's dark contralto voice, come to think of it. (For the record, I like Lenny's recording with King and DFD, too.)


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## DavidA

It us, of course, worth pointing out that Mahler had in mind a contrast between the voices, so if a baritone is used he must have a very different timbre to the tenor. Which bakes Kauffmann's recent recording of him singing both parts a somewhat ridiculous stunt.


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## 89Koechel

Yes, indeed, Rangstrom … 'bout B Walter and his diff. recordings of "Das Lied …". Thorborg & Miller were fine, in their way … as were Charles Kullmann and Ernst Haflinger (separately). Some of us still have FOND memories of the Canadian - Vickers - at his best, but maybe his way with the tenor part wasn't, exactly, his "vein".


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## 89Koechel

Well, there's one recording from the past .. probably forgotten/unknown … that might deserve mention. It involves a (forgotten) conductor of the Boston SO - Richard Burgin, with Hans J. Heinz … and Jennie Tourel, in a 1943 performance. One might be-SURPRISED that an American orchestra (BSO, of the time) doesn't give-IN to certain excesses … and even sounds, in many ways … "idiomatic". I won't say that Mr. Heinz is the BEST tenor, of all "Das Lied" types, but he DOES have a certain fervency … and Ms. Tourel fulfills the female role, truly WELL. Moreover, there's a certain discipline, that pervades this "unhysterical" type of rendition/performance .. that still rings-TRUE … many years after it's composition, and many ways of interpretations, alongside.


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## DavidA

Just remembering the versions in my collection :

Ferrier / Patzak / Walter - sound dated of course but gas an authenticity - and Ferrier

Ludwig / Wunderlich / Klemperer - two best vocalists though some of K's tempi for tenor songs questionable. 

King / D F-D / Bernstein - glorious conducting but I wish Bernstein had adopted the mezzo alternative. But D F-D is superb

Ludwig / Kollo / Karajan - he emphasises the magical nature of the songs

Baker / King / Haitinck - superb recording and Baker

Baker / Michinson / Lepoard - worth having for Baker

Fassbender / Araiza / Giulini - I find Araiza a bit underpowered but certainly worth hearing.

Whenever I summarise the number of recordings I have I always feel a bit of guilt as to the sheer number . But with CDs being so cheap these days, I can buy all of these for what it would've taken to buy in real terms Klemperer's recording when it came out when I was a kid.


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## Thomyum2

There's a fairly new (2013) recording of this out by Yannick Nézet-Séguin and the London Philharmonic with Sarah Connolly and Toby Spence that I have recently heard a few times and really enjoyed. I'm not very familiar with a lot of the older recordings recommended in this thread, but did find this one to be a very vibrant and engaging performance. Has anyone heard that and/or had any thoughts about it?


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## Barbebleu

DavidA said:


> Just remembering the versions in my collection :
> 
> Ferrier / Patzak / Walter - sound dated of course but gas an authenticity - and Ferrier
> 
> Ludwig / Wunderlich / Klemperer - two best vocalists though some of K's tempi for tenor songs questionable.
> 
> King / D F-D / Bernstein - glorious conducting but I wish Bernstein had adopted the mezzo alternative. But D F-D is superb
> 
> Ludwig / Kollo / Karajan - he emphasises the magical nature of the songs
> 
> Baker / King / Haitinck - superb recording and Baker
> 
> Baker / Michinson / Lepoard - worth having for Baker
> 
> Fassbender / Araiza / Giulini - I find Araiza a bit underpowered but certainly worth hearing.
> 
> Whenever I summarise the number of recordings I have I always feel a bit of guilt as to the sheer number . But with CDs being so cheap these days, I can buy all of these for what it would've taken to buy in real terms Klemperer's recording when it came out when I was a kid.


I never feel guilty about the number of recordings of this wonderful piece. I must hunt down some of the ones I don't have like the Giulini you mention.

I have Albrecht, Barenboim, 3 Bernsteins, Bertini, Haitink, Herreweghe, Karajan, Kempe, Klemperer, Kletzki, Krips, Kubelik, Leppard, Nott, Rattle, Salonen, Solti, Verdier and Walter.

Overkill? Yes, probably.

Would I be without any of them? Not really. They all shed some fascinating illumination on this eternally glorious music.


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## Tristan

And yet no one's mentioned Michael Tilson Thomas and the SF Symphony 

I only have a couple recordings of Das Lied von der Erde, but the MTT recording is excellent.


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## Barbebleu

Tristan said:


> And yet no one's mentioned Michael Tilson Thomas and the SF Symphony
> 
> I only have a couple recordings of Das Lied von der Erde, but the MTT recording is excellent.


Yeah, there's a lot of versions out there. This looks interesting and if memory serves Stuart Skelton has a Das Lied with Rattle and Rattle's wife out there. I'd need to give it a listen first as I was never a fan of Skelton's voice but I hear he has much improved so maybe!!


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## 89Koechel

Oh, hope that the MTT version doesn't disappoint you! … MTT has been a STALWART conductor, since his earliest days, in recordings of Tchaikovsky's "Winter Dreams"/Symphony #1 … and his comprehensive recordings of the music of Carl Ruggles, etc. He's still a man (with a baton) of sane and balance, but with the SENSE to encompass the emotional parts of certain musics …. from Mahler to Ruggles, from Ives to Tchaikosky, Beethoven, Debussy ("Martyr of St. Sebastian") etc.


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## DavidA

Barbebleu said:


> I never feel guilty about the number of recordings of this wonderful piece. I must hunt down some of the ones I don't have like the Giulini you mention.
> 
> I have Albrecht, Barenboim, 3 Bernsteins, Bertini, Haitink, Herreweghe, Karajan, Kempe, Klemperer, Kletzki, Krips, Kubelik, Leppard, Nott, Rattle, Salonen, Solti, Verdier and Walter.
> 
> Overkill? Yes, probably.
> 
> Would I be without any of them? Not really. They all shed some fascinating illumination on this eternally glorious music.


I remember the day when Klemperer and Walter and Bernstein were all we had to choose from


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## Barbebleu

DavidA said:


> I remember the day when Klemperer and Walter and Bernstein were all we had to choose from


I sometimes wonder if we now have too great a choice and aren't giving stuff we have a proper chance. When I first started buying albums, because I only had a few, they were played incessantly. The music really got a chance to embed. In fact when I pick up an album now that I first heard fifty-odd years ago I only need to lift it out of it's sleeve and every note comes flooding back.

Sad really.


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## DavidA

Barbebleu said:


> I sometimes wonder if we now have too great a choice and aren't giving stuff we have a proper chance. When I first started buying albums, because I only had a few, they were played incessantly. The music really got a chance to embed. In fact when I pick up an album now that I first heard fifty-odd years ago I only need to lift it out of it's sleeve and every note comes flooding back.
> 
> Sad really.


When you think we can gere a oerformance far more times than the composer did!


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## wkasimer

Barbebleu said:


> I sometimes wonder if we now have too great a choice and aren't giving stuff we have a proper chance.


I know exactly what you mean. I see things on my shelf that I've bought in the past ten or so years, and realize that I listened to it once, and remember nothing about it.


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## DavidA

wkasimer said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I see things on my shelf that I've bought in the past ten or so years, and realize that I listened to it once, and remember nothing about it.


Yes same here. Of course, there is the satisfaction of knowing we have the _possibility _of playing it! :lol:


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## wkasimer

DavidA said:


> Yes same here. Of course, there is the satisfaction of knowing we have the _possibility _of playing it! :lol:


And that I bought it before it went out of print!


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## Thomyum2

NY Philharmonic just announced their 2019-2020 season this week and it will include performances of _Das Lied von Der Erde_ conducted by Gustavo Dudamel, with Michelle DeYoung and Simon O'Neill:

https://nyphil.org/concerts-tickets/1920/dudamel-conducts-mahler-and-schubert


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## Barbebleu

wkasimer said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I see things on my shelf that I've bought in the past ten or so years, and realize that I listened to it once, and remember nothing about it.


At least you've listened to it once!!


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## wkasimer

Barbebleu said:


> At least you've listened to it once!!


At least to some of it. There are a number of big boxes that I bought before they went OOP that I've barely touched.


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## Barbebleu

wkasimer said:


> At least to some of it. There are a number of big boxes that I bought before they went OOP that I've barely touched.


Yep. I concur. I always say that I'm buying nothing else until I've listened to a big chunk of stuff I've already got but something will pop up on the radar and that's that!

A friend gave me a digital download of that complete Mozart that Philips did a few years back and I've barely scratched that.

I'm 70 now and times passing and I'm resigned to the fact that it's increasingly unlikely I'll hear everything I've got again but one can only try!:lol:


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## DavidA

Barbebleu said:


> Yep. I concur. I always say that I'm buying nothing else until I've listened to a big chunk of stuff I've already got but something will pop up on the radar and that's that!
> 
> A friend gave me a digital download of that complete Mozart that Philips did a few years back and I've barely scratched that.
> 
> I'm 70 now and times passing and I'm resigned to the fact that it's increasingly unlikely I'll hear everything I've got again but one can only try!:lol:


Yes quite so. I bought a complete Mozart edition from a charity shop for £20 but haven't exactly worn them out! But at least the money went to charity. Noting the das Lied I have I don't know when I'll play them all.


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## 89Koechel

Yes, one can ALWAYS try, and eventually listen-to the many recordings that some of us have accumulated .. whether jazz, classical, blues, whatever .. and the great issues/reissues that've occurred over the last, few decades. We owe it ourselves … and the great musicians of a bygone era, to remember and NOTE the best of the past, while there're still some or more (younger generation, let's say) who might appreciate the same, in the future.


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## Artran

Haitink / RCO / King & Baker is a winner for me.


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## NLAdriaan

Thanks for all these recommendations, which give me interest of spotifying Das Lied.

As a true Mahler-adept, I must confess that Das Lied has only captured my limited interest. My favourite song however is Of Youth.

I do have quite some versions here at home. The Ferrier Walter classic is too much for me in the Farewell. To me it is just too sentimental. Grief and sadness maybe don't have to be over-emphasized or exaggerated. Partir c'est mourir un peu, in the Farewell the leaving doesn't even seem to take place, as everybody seems to collapse in grief before actually leaving.

Until now, it may probably not surprise, I favor the most clinical of Mahler conductors in this piece, Pierre Boulez. Interesting enough, in the quick overview of all versions so far in this thread, I didn't see this one.

It could well be that das Lied and me never quite get it. Mahler has given me so much already and is my dearest composer (next to Bach), so this can just happen.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

NLAdriaan said:


> Until now, it may probably not surprise, I favor the most clinical of Mahler conductors in this piece, Pierre Boulez.


Personally, I like a bit more "emotion" in _Das Lied von der Erde_, but you can't go far wrong with Boulez in Mahler.


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## NLAdriaan

Just found this one








Very interesting, the smaller scale Schoenberg/Riehn version, as conducted by Herreweghe. A chamber version, where singer, lyrics and instruments are more balanced?

Further to this thread, I have however just discovered Klemperer's 60's recording, as hailed here before. This might become my favourite version. it is on my Amazon shopping list


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## NLAdriaan

realdealblues said:


> One of my few Desert Island Discs
> 
> View attachment 111966
> 
> 
> Leonard Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic with James King and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.
> 
> ...I think James King is in absolute perfect form and exactly what Mahler had in mind....This is an album I wish I could be buried with playing in the background for all time.


Am just listening to this recording, Farewell with Dieskau can join his Winterreise recordings. I certainly understand why this is one of your desert island discs. Thanks for sharing!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Essentials:

Kathleen Ferrier/Julius Patzak/Bruno Walter (live) (Tahra, Andromeda)
Kathleen Ferrier/Julius Patzak/Bruno Walter (Decca)
Kersten Thorborg/Carl Martin Ohman/Carl Schuricht (Minerva)
Alfreda Hodgson/John Mitchinson/Jascha Horenstein (BBC)
Janet Baker/Waldemar Kmentt/Rafael Kubelik (Audite)
Christa Ludwig/Fritz Wunderlich/Otto Klemperer (EMI)

The live 1952 Ferrier/Walter is a better performance AND has better sound than the studio IMO. To my ear the sound is more natural.

Additional listening:

Kathleen Ferrier/Richard Lewis/Sir John Barbirolli (APR, Dutton)
Kersten Thorborg/Charles Kullmann/Bruno Walter (Dutton, Naxos)
Janet Baker/John Mitchinson/Raymond Leppard (BBC)
Maureen Forester/Richard Lewis/Bruno Walter (Music & Arts)
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Murray Dickie/Paul Kletzki (EMI)
Brigitte Fassbaender/Francisco Arraiza/Carlo Maria Giulini (Testament)
Nan Merriman/Ernt Haefliger/Eduard van Beinum (Philips)
Janet Baker/James King/Bernhard Haitink (Philips)


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## Barbebleu

Is it Patzak who sings on the live Ferrier/Walter recording? Is it not Svanholm or am I confusing it with another live version?

I think the Andromeda recording is another version of the Decca one from 1952. The 1952 recording was recorded in the Sofiensaal on the 15/16 May and is not live per se.

The only live version with Ferrier that I can think of is the 1948 Carnegie Hall one with Svanholm and Walter.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Barbebleu said:


> Is it Patzak who sings on the live Ferrier/Walter recording? Is it not Svanholm or am I confusing it with another live version?
> 
> I think the Andromeda recording is another version of the Decca one from 1952. The 1952 recording was recorded in the Sofiensaal on the 15/16 May and is not live per se.
> 
> The only live version with Ferrier that I can think of is the 1948 Carnegie Hall one with Svanholm and Walter.


Svanholm is a different recording.

Ferrier/Patzak was recorded in studio AND performed live. I think the live recording had more frisson and ironically a more natural sound.

The Andromeda issue is coupled with Walter's outstanding 1955 VPO 4th.


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## Barbebleu

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Svanholm is a different recording.
> 
> Ferrier/Patzak was recorded in studio AND performed live. I think the live recording had more frisson and ironically a more natural sound.
> 
> The Andromeda issue is coupled with Walter's outstanding 1955 VPO 4th.


Where and when was the live Ferrier/Patzak recorded? I have seen reports that say it was performed on the 17/18 May, which would make it the day after or two days after the Sofiensaal recording. Or were there two performances?


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## Brahmsianhorn

Barbebleu said:


> Where and when was the live Ferrier/Patzak recorded? I have seen reports that say it was performed on the 17/18 May, which would make it the day after or two days after the Sofiensaal recording. Or were there two performances?


Not sure of the specifics. I can tell you I am very happy with the Tahra transfer. It is my desert island DLVDE.


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## Barbebleu

Having delved a bit, it would seem that the live version was recorded on the 18 May. So that's cool. I'll give it a listen on YT before deciding whether or not to spring for the download.


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## 1996D

Karajan gives order and structure to a work that can overwhelm audiences. Listening to it while reading the translated lyrics is a must to capture the true character of the piece, which Karajan does effectively all while preserving artistic symmetry. 

Big fan of the poems, they genuinely convey life.


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## Hiawatha

Mostly, I would choose the Ferriers.


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## flamencosketches

Does anyone like Reiner's interpretation of Das Lied? I love his Mahler 4th symphony, and it seems Das Lied is the only other work he recorded.


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> Does anyone like Reiner's interpretation of Das Lied? I love his Mahler 4th symphony, and it seems Das Lied is the only other work he recorded.


He also recorded Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen with the Pittsburgh SO and Carol Brice.


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## Granate

Thomyum2 said:


> There's a fairly new (2013) recording of this out by Yannick Nézet-Séguin and the London Philharmonic with Sarah Connolly and Toby Spence that I have recently heard a few times and really enjoyed. I'm not very familiar with a lot of the older recordings recommended in this thread, but did find this one to be a very vibrant and engaging performance. Has anyone heard that and/or had any thoughts about it?














flamencosketches said:


> Does anyone like Reiner's interpretation of Das Lied? I love his Mahler 4th symphony, and it seems Das Lied is the only other work he recorded.












These two recordings made a great impact on me when I was challenging various Das Lied I had not listened to, both separated in mono and stereo. I don't think flamencosketches means this recording, but the Reiner is worth a listen to be amazed with the singing. It's like a fake-stereo recording, with Lewis in my opinion in better form than in studio and Ludwig really close to her achievement with Klemperer.

On the other hand, I was really moved by the playing of the *LPO* in the *YNS* recording. It's just as enrapturing as in the Tennstedt era, though the conductor is not here anymore. Spence is really heroic but I've heard better. Connoly is like a soprano but really confortable in her low tones, who fulfills the role with notable results. I purchased it too and it will arrive very soon, just as part of my London Philharmonic plays Mahler collection.


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## Kiki

I like Nézet-Séguin's Das Lied von der Erde. Smooth and sensual. And Sarah Connolly is in radiant form.

Another DLVDE that I've been listening to is Jurowski's. Also featuring Sarah Connolly, although there are more edges in her singing in this outing. However, the orchestral transparency and Jurowski's musicality has got me smitten. Really like it.










Also managed to listen to (watch) Abbado's DLVDE from the Digital Concert Hall. Is this the only recording that he has left us? Jonas Kaufmann's free-spirit drunken poet is better than prejudice would let me believe. Anne Sofie von Otter is heartbreaking and there's a kind of vulnerability in her interpretation that I particularly like. Perhaps rarity makes it more precious, I wish EuroArts/Accentus/BP Recording would issue it on blu-ray. There are some wobbling moments from singers and orchestra, but I hope that would not be a reason not to release it.


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## Ulfilas

My two favourites are both modern recordings, you can spot the similarities:

















Alternatively, for the tenor-baritone combination, I can't go past Bernstein in Vienna:


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## Enthusiast

I have had the good luck to come across three of the more recent recordings of Das Lied recently. All are excellent and worthy to stand beside the greats of the past. In particular the Albrecht (with the stunning Belinda Coote) and the Nezet-Seguin are stunning:




























If you've not encountered any of them do check it out.


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## Barbebleu

I presume you meant Alice Coote who is superb as opposed to the less well-known and less well-appreciated Belinda Coote.


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## Rogerx

With the Berstein Decca not far behind.


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## Granate

I wouldn't say the Kubelík Salzburg 1959 concert with Waldemar Kmentt and Hilde Rössel-Majdan is a stunner and a formidable challenger to the best recordings, yet out of the mono recordings it has grown on me significantly. HRM was the reason I bought it, heavier and more filling than Maureen Forrester, but Kubelík and the WPO make the piece soar as well. Kmentt's heroicism is worth the listen but certainly a burden in the ugliest sense. Opposite to lads like Richard Lewis, Heppner or Wunderlich.


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## Kreisler jr

The tenor is usually the problematic point. 
But in my recollection Kmentt ca. 1970 with Baker/Kubelik (Audite) is quite good, so that this was overall a favorite after Wunderlich/Ludwig/Klemperer.


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## RobertJTh

Horenstein would be my first choice for those special moments when you don't care about vocal or orchestral perfection but want a recording that conveys the most intense emotions.









When I want a great orchestra and conductor doing Das Lied, I take a safe choice like Jochum, Bernstein, Kubelik - or of course Klemperer. But compared to Horenstein, I find Klemperer a tad too restrained. His orchestra and soloists are superior of course, but what Hogson does for Horenstein is a perfect example of a vocalist transcending her own limitations.
Another issue with Klemperer is that his recording was patched together from two very far apart recording sessions, if I remember correctly the Ludwig parts were done when Wunderlich was already dead... And somehow that contributes to the slight artificial feel of the recording, it never becomes a fully convincing unity to me.

In the 2 males versions there's one that stands out for me, Kletzki. I find F-D much more convincing singing for Kletzki than for Bernstein. That passage in the last song, where he sings "O Schönheit! O ewigen Liebens - Lebenstrunkne Welt!" - it's so breathtakingly beautiful, not even Ludwig or Ferrier can match the intensity of that moment.
In the Bernstein version F-D sounds not as communicative, at least to my ears. Maybe he felt restrained, I don't know the circumstances of the recording but I can imagine Bernstein imposing his ideas about of the work more than Kletzki, who was perhaps a bit more sympathetic to his singers.

Then there's Sanderling, who has perhaps the ideal concept of Das Lied, but is held back by his soloists, specially Finnilä. I don't like her voice at all in this repertoire.

There's the Herreweghe recording too, which uses a chamber orchestra arrangement. Well intended, but it's like the singers are uncomfortable with the more intimate setting, are afraid to let their voices dominate the accompaniment, with the result that everything feels dull and muted.


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## joen_cph

Should I grab two, it would probably be Bernstein-Kollo-Ludwig,IsraelPO/cbs-sony, and Klemperer-Ludwig-Wunderlich/emi, a bit less temperamental.

If I see Kubelik/audite, I'll buy it - haven't heard it.

And Jiracek/obscure historical LP/provincial orchestra, have heard some of it (it's on youtube, and often they play like it's their last concert forever, like in _Der Abschied_) - intense.
It does seem to be a genuine Jiracek recording (?):


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## Kreisler jr

I cannot get into the two male voices version. 
I keep the Kletzki around for the time being (don't like Dickie much, and despite Fi-Di in his prime, it somehow sounds "wrong" to me), but got rid of Rattle/Seifert/Hampson (this one had no redeeming features for me). I have heard at some stage (that does not mean I have precise recollections of all of them), Walter with Ferrier, Walter/Miller/Haefliger, Van Beinum, Jochum, Klemperer/Wunderlich, the older Klemperer (Dermota?), Kleiber (got rid of in the early 2000s because the sound was too bad but supposedly there has been a more recent issue in better sound), Kubelik, Bertini, Herreweghe (Schoenberg, I was positively surprised by this but it's a long time I heard it).

AFAIR of the ones I heard no tenor came close to Wunderlich by a huge margin (mostly in the first song, the other tenor songs don't matter much for me anyway). I'd have to relisten to Heppner with Bertini but I seem to remember that I was rather disappointed by this because when I bought it it was rare and I ordered a comparably used copy from France or so and overall it hardly seemed worth that extra effort. This makes Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig my favorite because it is very good overall and extraordinary in Wunderlich. The main weakness is a bit of lumbering in the middle section of Von der Schönheit and maybe (but I like her) a bit of coolness overall from Ludwig. Cannot be precise about the live Kubelik but I remember it as deserving its reputation with Kmentt at least not offensive, and the overall impression very moving.


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## Heck148

*Walter/Miller/Haefliger/NYPO
Reiner/Forrester/Lewis/Chicago
*
Forrester sounds great, esp in "Der Abschied"....I like Haefliger a bit better than Lewis, but both are good...
The orchestra work is fantastic - not to be missed - great solo work.
The big oboe solos are special [Autumn, Farewell] - both recordings - H. Gomberg [NYPO] and R, Still[CSO]

both conductors really excel - Der Abschied is remarkable in both cases - Walter produces the most powerful, bleak interlude; Reiner gets Forrester to sing with an almost ethereal quality for some passages....the Final "Ewigs" are just wrenching....

[PS - I lost my wife to CA c10 years ago - I've only listened to "Abschied" once since then....beautiful beyond words, but really tough going for me...]


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## Enthusiast

Barbebleu said:


> I presume you meant Alice Coote who is superb as opposed to the less well-known and less well-appreciated Belinda Coote.


I knew I had it wrong! But someone came to the door and so I posted it quickly. Thanks for the correction.


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## Enthusiast

Kreisler jr said:


> The tenor is usually the problematic point.
> But in my recollection Kmentt ca. 1970 with Baker/Kubelik (Audite) is quite good, so that this was overall a favorite after Wunderlich/Ludwig/Klemperer.


Among the more recent accounts (and even in comparison with the older ones) I found Toby Spence (for Nezet-Seguin) a very apt tenor for this piece.


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## Tsaraslondon

Granate said:


> I wouldn't say the Kubelík Salzburg 1959 concert with Waldemar Kmentt and Hilde Rössel-Majdan is a stunner and a formidable challenger to the best recordings, yet out of the mono recordings it has grown on me significantly. HRM was the reason I bought it, heavier and more filling than Maureen Forrester, but Kubelík and the WPO make the piece soar as well. Kmentt's heroicism is worth the listen but certainly a burden in the ugliest sense. Opposite to lads like Richard Lewis, Heppner or Wunderlich.


There is of course a much better Kubelik performances available, one that is without doubt amongst the best performances ever recorded, and my personal favourite. Its' a live recording from Munich in 1970 and the sound is very good indeed. Waldemar Kmentt is again the tenor soloist and Dame Janet Baker outdoes all her other recorded performances. I find the ending totaly and utterly emotionally shattering.


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## fluteman

I've never heard a version of Das Lied that I'm entirely happy with. Miller/Haefliger/Walter/NY Phil probably is still my overall favorite, though Urmana/Schade/Boulez/Vienna Phil ranks high. I suppose Walter and Boulez are my two favorite Mahler conductors. I grew up with Merriman/Haefliger/Van Beinum/ACO, and I wish Van Beinum had made more than four Mahler recordings, as he'd be a favorite too.

I need to check out some more recent versions, so thanks OP et al.


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## Rogerx

View attachment 161270


Jonas Kaufmann (tenor)

Wiener Philharmoniker, Jonathan Nott

Not to missed.


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## Art Rock

Rogerx said:


> View attachment 161270
> 
> 
> Jonas Kaufmann (tenor)
> 
> Wiener Philharmoniker, Jonathan Nott
> 
> Not to missed.


I could not disagree more. One of the worst DLVDE's in my 50+ collection. Bought it for the curiosity value (one singer tackling all six songs), but it does not work at all for me.


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## JTS

Rogerx said:


> View attachment 161270
> 
> 
> Jonas Kaufmann (tenor)
> 
> Wiener Philharmoniker, Jonathan Nott
> 
> Not to missed.


The fact is that Mahler wrote this song cycle for two contrasting voices. Kaufman's vanity project rather torpedoes his intentions.


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## Kreisler jr

fluteman said:


> I've never heard a version of Das Lied that I'm entirely happy with. Miller/Haefliger/Walter/NY Phil probably is still my overall favorite, though Urmana/Schade/Boulez/Vienna Phil ranks high. I suppose Walter and Boulez are my two favorite Mahler conductors. I grew up with Merriman/Haefliger/Van Beinum/ACO, and I wish Van Beinum had made more than four Mahler recordings, as he'd be a favorite too.


Van Beinum suffers from dry mono in my recollection and the singers are good but not great IMO (in overall much better sound with Jochum, I think).

What don't you like about Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig and have you heard the live Kubelik/Kmentt/Baker just mentioned in #70.


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## wkasimer

Art Rock said:


> I could not disagree more. One of the worst DLVDE's in my 50+ collection. Bought it for the curiosity value (one singer tackling all six songs), but it does not work at all for me.


Same here. I don't think that Kaufmann sings either the tenor or baritone contributions particularly well.


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## fluteman

Kreisler jr said:


> Van Beinum suffers from dry mono in my recollection and the singers are good but not great IMO (in overall much better sound with Jochum, I think).
> 
> What don't you like about Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig and have you heard the live Kubelik/Kmentt/Baker just mentioned in #70.


I'm a big fan of Wunderlich and Kubelik but not Klemperer after his brain surgery and not Ludwig or Baker, especially for this music. And very much not Ferrier, especially after her cancer-related health issues became a factor. You are right that the later (circa 1963) stereo Jochum version has better overall sound than the circa 1957 mono Van Beinum version. But for the latter, you really need the original vinyl LP and not the CD reissue. I find many of the 50s mono recordings were poorly served by the CD reissues.

As for the soloists, I'm a big fan of Ernst Haefliger, a little less so Nan Merriman, but she is good, and still in her youthful and healthy prime. I think she retired early to raise a family, which was very common for women in those pre-gender equality days.

As with a lot of Mahler, I like a cooler, more introspective Das Lied that isn't too overwrought and melodramatic. The music establishes the drama without being pushed and pulled excessively. I get that from Walter and Boulez.


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## Tsaraslondon

fluteman said:


> I'm a big fan of Wunderlich and Kubelik but not Klemperer after his brain surgery and not Ludwig or Baker, especially for this music. And very much not Ferrier, especially after her cancer-related health issues became a factor. You are right that the later (circa 1963) stereo Jochum version has better overall sound than the circa 1957 mono Van Beinum version. But for the latter, you really need the original vinyl LP and not the CD reissue. I find many of the 50s mono recordings were poorly served by the CD reissues.
> 
> As for the soloists, I'm a big fan of Ernst Haefliger, a little less so Nan Merriman, but she is good, and still in her youthful and healthy prime. I think she retired early to raise a family, which was very common for women in those pre-gender equality days.
> 
> As with a lot of Mahler, I like a cooler, more introspective Das Lied that isn't too overwrought and melodramatic. The music establishes the drama without being pushed and pulled excessively. I get that from Walter and Boulez.


Are you suggesting that Ferrier's cancer-related health issues had a detrimental effect on her vocal performances? If so, that's the first I've heard of it. As for Baker and Ludwig, I think they were both at their finest in Mahler, as indeed was Ferrier. All three are amongst the greatest Mahler interpreters of the twentieth century.

I know you usually tend to go against the pervading opinion though.


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## fluteman

Tsaraslondon said:


> Are you suggesting that Ferrier's cancer-related health issues had a detrimental effect on her vocal performances? If so, that's the first I've heard of it. As for Baker and Ludwig, I think they were both at their finest in Mahler, as indeed was Ferrier. All three are amongst the greatest Mahler interpreters of the twentieth century.
> 
> I know you usually tend to go against the pervading opinion though.


My opinions have nothing to do with what "pervading opinion" is or isn't here, but are as developed in up to 55 years of constant listening. Why do I have to worry about whether my opinions jibe with those of others here or elsewhere? Why does whatever the "pervading opinion" is here matter at all?

And anyway, are the Mahler recordings of Bruno Walter and Pierre Boulez considered second rate here or elsewhere? Walter was a student and disciple of Mahler himself. Boulez as a conductor is well-known for his interpretations of Mahler, as well as Debussy, Ravel, and Stravinsky. His own music may be controversial in the "pervading opinion" here, but I don't see why that is relevant. I notice both recordings I cited were cited as favorites by other posters before me. Again, if that matters.

I happen to be a fan of Van Beinum. I think If he hadn't passed away at a relatively early age he likely would have made a lot more stereo commercial recordings (I believe he only made one or two) and he would have been a much bigger name. I think there are other Van Beinum fans here.  Once again, if that matters.

Finally, I remember reading that Ferrier's illness did affect her later recordings. But my opinion is based on the recordings I have heard, many of which I own.

Edit: I never thought I would cite David Hurwitz, whom I despise, for support on any topic, but here is what he says about Ferrier's Das Lied, at least the recording I know:

Bruno Walter recorded Das Lied three times, and the most famous recording is his second one, recorded in the 1950s for London and featuring Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. That record has enormous sentimental value for the British, because they can't get enough of Ferrier, who died tragically of cancer in 1953 at the age of 41. But the fact is, she sounds terrible on the recording, and Patzak was well past his prime, too. Also, the postwar Vienna Philharmonic was no match for the New York Philharmonic in performing this music; the New York orchestra has an even more authentic Mahlerian pedigree than do the Viennese. This final stereo performance, then-- Walter's last thoughts on the piece that he premiered 50 years earlier--is the one to own.

So he prefers the Walter version I happen to like. Sigh. Fortunately, Ferrier lived (just) long enough to record a fair variety of repertoire, so all can make up their own minds.


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## Marc

fluteman said:


> [...]
> 
> I happen to be a fan of Van Beinum. I think If he hadn't passed away at a relatively early age he likely would have made a lot more stereo commercial recordings (I believe he only made one or two) and he would have been a much bigger name. I think there are other Van Beinum fans here. Once again, if that matters.
> [...]


It does not really matter indeed, but I agree with this.


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## Barbebleu

I’ve been listening to the Bernstein, Kollo, Ludwig, Israel PO live one. Brilliantly exhilarating.


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## Kreisler jr

I don't think I have ever systematically evaluated my recordings. But roughly it's like this: The most important part by far is of course the last one, the next important is the first song, then follow the 2nd and 4th and the two "scherzando" tenor songs last. 
It is very unlikely that any of the 4 middle songs will make/break a recording of LvdE for me.
However, it usually does not work by evaluating the most important parts but by exclusion beause of things I dislike or that annoy me, especially about the singers. 

No conducting and playing can redeem the piece if I am constantly annoyed with or dislike timbre, mannerisms etc. of the singers. And in the end it usually boils down to the tenor (+ fortunate miking) making most of the first song because to me this one seems the one most easy to fail because you need someone like a "lyric Heldentenor". Whereas an alto would have to have damn annoying vibrato or something to totally spoil "Der Abschied" for me, so despite this being by far the most important part, the most likely exclusion/devaluation for me comes from the tenor in the first song.


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## betterthanfine

fluteman said:


> As with a lot of Mahler, I like a cooler, more introspective Das Lied that isn't too overwrought and melodramatic. The music establishes the drama without being pushed and pulled excessively. I get that from Walter and Boulez.


Have you heard the Kent Nagano with Klaus Florian Vogt and Christian Gerhaher? Sounds like that would be up your alley.


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## fluteman

betterthanfine said:


> Have you heard the Kent Nagano with Klaus Florian Vogt and Christian Gerhaher? Sounds like that would be up your alley.


Thanks, I'm listening to it right now.


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## RobertJTh

Time for a really dark horse (which I found in my collection today, totally forgot that I owned it):









Taped in 1974, it's very curious recording in that it's practically a remake of the famous Horenstein version from two years earlier, with the same soloists (Mitchinson and Hodgson) but now with the Scottisch National Orchestra (we're still in the north of the UK) and Gibson conducting.

I should give it a spin again, but I don't think it made a big impression. Maybe better played than the Horenstein recording, but with less emotional impact and Gibson's direction seems rather uninvolved. Sound seems better though, and the soloists are superb, specially Hodgson.


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## 89Koechel

fluteman - OH, my ... Ferrier was "terrible", in the Walter/VPO recording?! I disagree ... but, to be honest, I haven't listened to Walter/NYP in the same work. ... Also, to all, maybe someone could mention a Mahler "master" - Jascha Horenstein, in his recording with Alfreda Hodgson and John Mitchinson. Sure, Mitchinson is probably not the BEST tenor, in his role ... but Horenstein & Hodgson truly make-up for certain shortcomings, IMO.


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## JTS

fluteman said:


> My opinions have nothing to do with what "pervading opinion" is or isn't here, but are as developed in up to 55 years of constant listening. Why do I have to worry about whether my opinions jibe with those of others here or elsewhere? Why does whatever the "pervading opinion" is here matter at all?
> 
> And anyway, are the Mahler recordings of Bruno Walter and Pierre Boulez considered second rate here or elsewhere? Walter was a student and disciple of Mahler himself. Boulez as a conductor is well-known for his interpretations of Mahler, as well as Debussy, Ravel, and Stravinsky. His own music may be controversial in the "pervading opinion" here, but I don't see why that is relevant. I notice both recordings I cited were cited as favorites by other posters before me. Again, if that matters.
> 
> I happen to be a fan of Van Beinum. I think If he hadn't passed away at a relatively early age he likely would have made a lot more stereo commercial recordings (I believe he only made one or two) and he would have been a much bigger name. I think there are other Van Beinum fans here. Once again, if that matters.
> 
> Finally, I remember reading that Ferrier's illness did affect her later recordings. But my opinion is based on the recordings I have heard, many of which I own.
> 
> Edit: I never thought I would cite David Hurwitz, whom I despise, for support on any topic, but here is what he says about Ferrier's Das Lied, at least the recording I know:
> 
> Bruno Walter recorded Das Lied three times, and the most famous recording is his second one, recorded in the 1950s for London and featuring Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. That record has enormous sentimental value for the British, because they can't get enough of Ferrier, who died tragically of cancer in 1953 at the age of 41. *But the fact is, she sounds terrible on the recording*, and Patzak was well past his prime, too. Also, the postwar Vienna Philharmonic was no match for the New York Philharmonic in performing this music; the New York orchestra has an even more authentic Mahlerian pedigree than do the Viennese. This final stereo performance, then-- Walter's last thoughts on the piece that he premiered 50 years earlier--is the one to own.
> 
> So he prefers the Walter version I happen to like. Sigh. Fortunately, Ferrier lived (just) long enough to record a fair variety of repertoire, so all can make up their own minds.


Funny that after 55 years of listening you contradict the opinion of the man who actually knew Maher. " The greatest things in my life I've been knowing Kathleen Ferrier and Mahler in that order " (Bruno Walter) I have actually been listening for 55 years too and would disagree with that opinion! It does not only appear to go against received opinion but against common sense as well from what one can hear.


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## fluteman

JTS said:


> Funny that after 55 years of listening you contradict the opinion of the man who actually knew Maher. " The greatest things in my life I've been knowing Kathleen Ferrier and Mahler in that order " (Bruno Walter) I have actually been listening for 55 years too and would disagree with that opinion! It does not only appear to go against received opinion but against common sense as well from what one can hear.


The portion of my post you highlighted, in which it says "[Kathleen Ferrier] sounds terrible", is a direct quote from a David Hurwitz review. Those are his words, not mine. Nor is it my opinion. It is my opinion that I prefer the Walter / Miller / Haefliger / New York Philharmonic recording to the Ferrier recording, and in particular Miller's interpretation and performance to Ferrier's interpretation and performance, as David Hurwitz does.

As I don't entirely agree with Mr. Hurwitz's review, I can hardly criticize you if you don't either. But what I find almost comical about your post is that you feel the need to cite "received opinion" and "common sense" in support of your tastes in music. Why not have the confidence and security to stand by your opinion, accept the fact that we disagree, and that both of us disagree, though maybe in different ways, with Mr. Hurwitz, and move on?

I only cited the Hurwitz review to illustrate how tastes in music can, and will, differ. I don't need his review as a security blanket, as I tried to make clear.


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## JTS

fluteman said:


> The portion of my post you highlighted, in which it says "[Kathleen Ferrier] sounds terrible", is a direct quote from a David Hurwitz review. Those are his words, not mine. Nor is it my opinion. It is my opinion that I prefer the Walter / Miller / Haefliger / New York Philharmonic recording to the Ferrier recording, and in particular Miller's interpretation and performance to Ferrier's interpretation and performance, as David Hurwitz does.
> 
> As I don't entirely agree with Mr. Hurwitz's review, I can hardly criticize you if you don't either. But what I find almost comical about your post is that you feel the need to cite "received opinion" and "common sense" in support of your tastes in music. Why not have the confidence and security to stand by your opinion, accept the fact that we disagree, and that both of us disagree, though maybe in different ways, with Mr. Hurwitz, and move on?
> 
> I only cited the Hurwitz review to illustrate how tastes in music can, and will, differ. I don't need his review as a security blanket, as I tried to make clear.


If you didn't need his reviews the security blanket I don't know why you bothered to quote him as nobody on TC appears to take him seriously. When you quote someone approvingly people tend to think you agree with them.

Common sense you know.

Seems also common sense that we take a bit more notice of the man who knew Mahler than Mr Hurwitz fulminating his opinions. Walter might just have known a bit more about what the composer wanted from a singer than a tin-eared critic.


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## Neo Romanza

Art Rock said:


> I could not disagree more. One of the worst DLVDE's in my 50+ collection. Bought it for the curiosity value (one singer tackling all six songs), but it does not work at all for me.


Absolutely. There aren't many recordings that I'd say I actually _hate_, but this is certainly one of them. I never understood the reasoning behind Kaufmann handling both vocal parts aside from having an ego the size of Jupiter. Glad I never actually bought this recording, because I'd definitely be throwing it in file 13 or giving away to someone who would like something like this (I can't imagine it would be many).


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## Woodduck

Neo Romanza said:


> Absolutely. There aren't many recordings that I'd say I actually _hate_, but this is certainly one of them. I never understood the reasoning behind Kaufmann handling both vocal parts aside from having an ego the size of Jupiter. Glad I never actually bought this recording, because I'd definitely be throwing it in file 13 or giving away to someone who would like something like this (I can't imagine it would be many).


Not sure about Kaufmann's ego, but he is an adventurous sort who enjoys a challenge. I haven't heard his attempt at DLvdE, but even in theory it seems a bad gamble and a misrepresentation of the work. At best it's something a singer might do for a private audience, but nowadays it seems every screwball notion gets publicized in one way or another, and tampering with works of art has become normalized by a postmodern outlook that takes no offense at anything. The attitude seems to be "Mahler is dead and can't object."


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## Tsaraslondon

I've just come across yet another DLVDE with Baker in the mezzo part. Has anyone heard it?

That now makes five (the studio Haitink, and three other live accounts conducted by Leppard, Kempe and Kubelik).


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## Triplets

fluteman said:


> My opinions have nothing to do with what "pervading opinion" is or isn't here, but are as developed in up to 55 years of constant listening. Why do I have to worry about whether my opinions jibe with those of others here or elsewhere? Why does whatever the "pervading opinion" is here matter at all?
> 
> And anyway, are the Mahler recordings of Bruno Walter and Pierre Boulez considered second rate here or elsewhere? Walter was a student and disciple of Mahler himself. Boulez as a conductor is well-known for his interpretations of Mahler, as well as Debussy, Ravel, and Stravinsky. His own music may be controversial in the "pervading opinion" here, but I don't see why that is relevant. I notice both recordings I cited were cited as favorites by other posters before me. Again, if that matters.
> 
> I happen to be a fan of Van Beinum. I think If he hadn't passed away at a relatively early age he likely would have made a lot more stereo commercial recordings (I believe he only made one or two) and he would have been a much bigger name. I think there are other Van Beinum fans here. Once again, if that matters.
> 
> Finally, I remember reading that Ferrier's illness did affect her later recordings. But my opinion is based on the recordings I have heard, many of which I own.
> 
> Edit: I never thought I would cite David Hurwitz, whom I despise, for support on any topic, but here is what he says about Ferrier's Das Lied, at least the recording I know:
> 
> Bruno Walter recorded Das Lied three times, and the most famous recording is his second one, recorded in the 1950s for London and featuring Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. That record has enormous sentimental value for the British, because they can't get enough of Ferrier, who died tragically of cancer in 1953 at the age of 41. But the fact is, she sounds terrible on the recording, and Patzak was well past his prime, too. Also, the postwar Vienna Philharmonic was no match for the New York Philharmonic in performing this music; the New York orchestra has an even more authentic Mahlerian pedigree than do the Viennese. This final stereo performance, then-- Walter's last thoughts on the piece that he premiered 50 years earlier--is the one to own.
> 
> So he prefers the Walter version I happen to like. Sigh. Fortunately, Ferrier lived (just) long enough to record a fair variety of repertoire, so all can make up their own minds.


I agree about the stereo Walter, it would be proverbial Desert Island Choice if I was limited to one. My personal favorite, because it was my only version for many years, is Haitink/Amsterdam et al..
Did Paavo Jarvi record this?


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## Heck148

fluteman said:


> Bruno Walter recorded Das Lied three times, .......Also, the postwar Vienna Philharmonic was no match for the New York Philharmonic in performing this music; the New York orchestra has an even more authentic Mahlerian pedigree than do the Viennese. This final stereo performance, then-- Walter's last thoughts on the piece that he premiered 50 years earlier--is the one to own.


Yes, the Walter/NYPO/Miller/Haefliger is my favorite along with Reiner/CSO/Forrester/Lewis....both great recordings - featuring fine soloists and superlative orchestral work....great solo work, esp notable in both recordings is the stunning oboe solo work - Autumn, Der Abschied - Harold Gomberg [NYPO] Ray Still [CSO]


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## HenryPenfold

> fluteman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bruno Walter recorded Das Lied three times, and the most famous recording is his second one, recorded in the 1950s for London and featuring Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. *That record has enormous sentimental value for the British, because they can't get enough of Ferrier*,
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear, such philistine stereotyping.
Click to expand...


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## Waehnen

I was surprised to find a most decent CD in my collections: Paul Kletzki conducting Philharmonia. Fischer-Dieskau singing, even! I find this combination of symphony and song cycle very appealing.


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## RobertJTh

Waehnen said:


> I was surprised to find a most decent CD in my collections: Paul Kletzki conducting Philharmonia. Fischer-Dieskau singing, even! I find this combination of symphony and song cycle very appealing.


Congrats, that's probably the best of the "2 dudes" versions. Don't let anyone tell you that Bernstein is better


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## Tsaraslondon

HenryPenfold said:


> Oh dear, such philistine stereotyping.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, although Fluteman shares it, that is David Hurwitz's view, though I take little notice of him as I find I disagree with him far more often than not. Maybe that's because I'm British too.
Click to expand...


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## Allegro Con Brio

^I'm not British and I think Ferrier is absolutely exquisite on that recording. Even if I didn't know of her terminal illness, her rich mystical voice and expert inflection of the text is perfectly suited for Mahler. However, I am much less enamored with Patzak, who sounds past his prime to my ears.


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## Knorf

Tsaraslondon said:


> ...that is David Hurwitz's view, though I take little notice of him as I find I disagree with him far more often than not. Maybe that's because I'm British too.


It might also be because his reviews are overwhelmingly capricious and arbitrary, without basis in even the flimsiest shred of real musical insight.


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## Kreisler jr

Hurwitz has his own biases. But it is hard to deny that the anglophone classical music world was until recently (until the 1990s or later) strongly dominated by British magazines and publications (like the Penguin guide) and their biases that were often pro-British (among other things).

But bashing such perennial Pengraphone favorites is also a bit cheap and predictable because Hurwitz (and others) have done it for years.


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## Tsaraslondon

Kreisler jr said:


> Hurwitz has his own biases. But it is hard to deny that the anglophone classical music world was until recently (until the 1990s or later) strongly dominated by British magazines and publications (like the Penguin guide) and their biases that were often pro-British (among other things).


One could also make the opposite claim for the American classical world. I have often noticed marked differences in US and English taste, particularly when it comes to singers.


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## Kreisler jr

One could but as a continental European I am as wary about Americans being competent in CM as about Brits  and, more importantly, I don't think there are/were publications from the US, France or Germany that were internationally as powerful as "Gramophone" and the Penguin guide. So it seems not unfounded that British reviewers had an undue weight because of these prominent outlets. It's certainly mostly a thing of the past now, of course.


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## HarmonicsV

I don't think it should surprise us that people tend to prefer performers whose performance styles conform to their own national tastes (and whom in the past they might have been used to hearing 'live'). But it does strike me that Mr H, among his many prejudices, seems particularly averse to anything English.


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## Waehnen

I now have the Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig/Philharmonia recording.

This music suits Klemperer excellently. There is something about his tempos, pulse and articulation that really works. A trademark even although I cannot put my finger on it.


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## MAS

I like Carlos Kleiber's way with the orchestra, especially since it's the Vienna Symphony Orchestra.


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## Rogerx

Waehnen said:


> I now have the Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig/Philharmonia recording.
> 
> This music suits Klemperer excellently. There is something about his tempos, pulse and articulation that really works. A trademark even although I cannot put my finger on it.


I still have that feeling after all the years I have that recording , for me it´s unbeatable .


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## Op.123

Schuricht with Thorborg and Ohmann is my favourite performance with fairly decent sound for its age.


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## HenryPenfold

Like a lot of works that have many excellent recordings, my favourite DLVDE is often the one I'm listening to at the time.

But I'll give a shout-out for a 'recent' recording that I honestly think is up there with the best.

Sarah Connolly quite simply has a beautiful voice and she has such an ability for phrasing and empathy for the meaning of the work. Toby Spence may not be capable of the most idiomatic performance of this piece, but his performance does nothing to detract (as some tenors can) from the quality of the overall performance.

Der Abshied is fittingly the best performed of all the movements, with Sarah Connolly finding the light as well as the deep shade of this movement. She is both gentle and appropriately powerful.

In fact, I was quite surprised just how good this performance is.

I think the LPO is actually a top-class Mahler orchestra with a long performance history of M's works, and Yannick Nézet-Séguin admirably matches his illustrious forebears.

It goes near the top of my favourite DLVDEs.


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## Neo Romanza

HenryPenfold said:


> Like a lot of works that have many excellent recordings, my favourite DLVDE is often the one I'm listening to at the time.
> 
> But I'll give a shout-out for a 'recent' recording that I honestly think is up there with the best.
> 
> Sarah Connolly quite simply has a beautiful voice and she has such an ability for phrasing and empathy for the meaning of the work. Toby Spence may not be capable of the most idiomatic performance of this piece, but his performance does nothing to detract (as some tenors can) from the quality of the overall performance.
> 
> Der Abshied is fittingly the best performed of all the movements, with Sarah Connolly finding the light as well as the deep shade of this movement. She is both gentle and appropriately powerful.
> 
> In fact, I was quite surprised just how good this performance is.
> 
> I think the LPO is actually a top-class Mahler orchestra with a long performance history of M's works, and Yannick Nézet-Séguin admirably matches his illustrious forebears.
> 
> It goes near the top of my favourite DLVDEs.


The most recent _Das Lied_ that has impressed me is this one with Jurowski:










I also rather enjoyed this one:


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## Otis B. Driftwood

I've come to the realization that I prefer Schoenberg's chamber transcription.

My recording of choice is;
Ensemble Musique Oblique / Herreweghe / Remmert / Blochwitz


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## marlow

Just listening to the Bernstein / VPO with D F-D. It is a remarkable performance orchestrally.


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