# Round 2: Voi Lo Sapate Video: Tebaldi, Simionato, Cossotto



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I was not allowed to imbed the first two videos so I inserted the links instead, which should work. I wanted Cossotto's amazing video to have good competition in video form.Let me know if there is a problem.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I loved them all. I saw Cossotto sing this role at the San Francisco Opera a bit late for her, when she had a bit of trouble with the high notes, falling short on the highest ones on occasion. 

I don’t usually like mezzos singing this role, but here we have two of the best - God bless the Japanese! Simionato and Cossotto have the advantage of a staged scene; Tebaldi, alas, on a Firestone TV snippet, is badly blocked; she’s looking down throughout. Who was the stage director? 

Simionato has all the goods and her scene is subtly acted. Cossotto, however, is fully within the part, chewing the scenery as is her wont. The closeups help, though I don’t usually like them in opera as the acting is meant to be seen from a distance. But Cossotto is riveting.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I loved them all. I saw Cossotto sing this role at the San Francisco Opera a bit late for her, when she had a bit of trouble with the high notes, falling short on the highest ones on occasion.
> 
> I don't usually like mezzos singing this role, but here we have two of the best - God bless the Japanese! Simionato and Cossotto have the advantage of a staged scene; Tebaldi, alas, on a Firestone TV snippet, is badly blocked; she's looking down throughout. Who was the stage director?
> 
> Simionato has all the goods and her scene is subtly acted. Cossotto, however, is fully within the part, chewing the scenery as is her wont. The closeups help, though I don't usually like them in opera as the acting is meant to be seen from a distance. But Cossotto is riveting.


I am so glad my workaround on the videos worked!!! I knew these would be great videos. I agree, Tebaldi was really into it but it could have been staged much better. it is a shame Simeonato has to cover up her incredible figure for this role as it is like putting Jayne Mansfield in a choir robe LOL. I have a question about the marvelous performance by Cossoto. She was so emotional and was crying, but have heard that too much real as opposed to acting emotions is bad for your vocal health. What have you heard on this. I can't remember seeing real tears by a singer onstage.


----------



## khalid (11 mo ago)

All of them had some of the most glorious voices, Cossotto and Tebaldi are slightly past their prime, still giving an immaculate performance. Tebaldi is as always, giving some good dramatic insight, but more on the beautiful side. Cossotto gave a terrific performance however, I feel like it's overdone, making it more like a greek tragedy rather than verismo. Simionato gave the most natural performance.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Tebaldi was the least involved, I thought and her acting in this TV progamme, confined to a few stock operatic gestures. She didn't convince me.

Simionato was 50 so is no doubt a little too mature for Santuzza, but I liked her subtly acted version and the way she gradually built up the scene. Cossotto was overwrougt from the word go and I found her performance a bit too over the top. 

Vocally they are all fine, but Simionato was my favourite.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

As usual I listened to these before opening my eyes. All three ladies are major singers who know their business, and I don't feel much desire to pick them over for minor faults. Actually I'm not crazy about any of them - maybe I'm just getting tired of this little slice of life among the paesans - but in general I'm most comfortable with Simionato, and least happy with Cossotto, whose voice I simply dislike. Maybe she's past her prime, but her sound seems lacking in depth for a mezzo while she hasn't enough ease at the top for a soprano. In this aria I always look forward to the final cadence on "Io piango!" to see what variety of sob or wail or whatever the singer might decide is preferable to simply singing the note. Simionato rewrites the music, Tebaldi flips out comically (which is too bad because her chest voice is great), and Cossotto just introduces a little catch in the voice. In this detail I'll take Cossotto, but otherwise I'll go with Simionato.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Good Lord!! The lump in my throat and the tears in my eyes are thanks to Cossotto who easily grabbed my gut as I rode along on with her distraught heart. That was true acting and she felt every single word for sure. Simionato, who is my favorite mezzo was also wonderful -- but who could compete with that performance by Cossotto?
Tebaldi's was a studied performance for me despite her beautiful voice.


----------



## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

This is quite late for all three of them. There are better performances of this by Simionato from the early to mid 1950s, where her middle voice sounds clear and powerful, without the slight muddiness it displays here. Nevertheless, hers is the best performance here, particularly the chest voice sections which Simionato delves into with riveting intensity, not to mention the pathos in her phrasing. Although Tebaldi sings beautifully, as she has always done, Santuzza isn’t apt for her voice and temperament. There has always been a grandeur and nobility to Tebaldi that doesn’t suit this music, though she sings with excellent diction and phrases naturally. I have never been an admirer of Cosotto. Her voice sounds like a short lyric soprano than like a mezzo, particularly in the middle. She overacts to compensate for the lack of intrinsic drama in her voice. Great chest voice though.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

This is verismo so time for the scenery chewing which Cossotto does better than anyone here. Not subtle but neither is the music!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Tebaldi was the least involved, I thought and her acting in this TV progamme, confined to a few stock operatic gestures. She didn't convince me.
> 
> Simionato was 50 so is no doubt a little too mature for Santuzza, but I liked her subtly acted version and the way she gradually built up the scene. Cossotto was overwrougt from the word go and I found her performance a bit too over the top.
> 
> Vocally they are all fine, but Simionato was my favourite.


Cossotto's performance is from a movie, conducted by Karajan. That's why she could cry, as she was lip syncing. So it's possible she was directed to over-act, not that she was ever a wallflower! :lol:


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> Cossotto's performance is from a movie, conducted by Karajan. That's why she could cry, as she was lip syncing. So it's possible she was directed to over-act, not that she was ever a wallflower! :lol:


What an interesting story. So the mascara dripping down her face was manufactured? Wow! Well she sure got me in the gut.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> What an interesting story. So the mascara dripping down her face was manufactured? Wow! Well she sure got me in the gut.


It's amazing what they can do with glycerin!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> What an interesting story. So the mascara dripping down her face was manufactured? Wow! Well she sure got me in the gut.


She is my favorite mezzo, and my favorite Amneris and Azucena with memorable plunges into her chest register. She gave her all and her performances included staggering and lurching and curtain call shenanigans. I particularly liked her throwing herself to her knees, in gratitude for the applause.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> This is quite late for all three of them. There are better performances of this by Simionato from the early to mid 1950s, where her middle voice sounds clear and powerful, without the slight muddiness it displays here. Nevertheless, hers is the best performance here, particularly the chest voice sections which Simionato delves into with riveting intensity, not to mention the pathos in her phrasing. Although Tebaldi sings beautifully, as she has always done, Santuzza isn't apt for her voice and temperament. There has always been a grandeur and nobility to Tebaldi that doesn't suit this music, though she sings with excellent diction and phrases naturally. I have never been an admirer of Cosotto. Her voice sounds like a short lyric soprano than like a mezzo, particularly in the middle. She overacts to compensate for the lack of intrinsic drama in her voice. Great chest voice though.


I wanted three videos by singers with great reputations and these filled the bill. I think I could have found sound videos better for all three but I like to mix things up with videos if available.. I love the insights you make.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> She is my favorite mezzo, and my favorite Amneris and Azucena with memorable plunges into her chest register. She gave her all and her performances included staggering and lurching and curtain call shenanigans. I particularly liked her throwing herself to her knees, in gratitude for the applause.


Coming from an acting background, I must admit I appreciate a little chewing of the scenery every now and then to a stand and deliver approach, if it is done in "delicious" taste.:lol:
Funniest part is that Simionato is my very favorite mezzo. Go figure!


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Coming from an acting background, I must admit I appreciate a little chewing of the scenery every now and then to a stand and deliver approach, if it is done in "delicious" taste.:lol:
> Funniest part is that Simionato is my very favorite mezzo. Go figure!


It's precisely because I am an actor that I don't like what people call chewing the scenery, and I don't think the only alternative to that is a stand and deliver approach, though stillness can be very effective, sometimes even more so. Admttedly in opera, where the emotions are writ so large, you can probably be a bit more emotive, but I don't like it when performers "ACT" in capital letters. Real acting comes from within and in opera should be dictated by the music.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's precisely because I am an actor that I don't like what people call chewing the scenery, and I don't think the only alternative to that is a stand and deliver approach, though stillness can be very effective, sometimes even more so. Admttedly in opera, where the emotions are writ so large, you can probably be a bit more emotive, but I don't like it when performers "ACT" in capital letters. Real acting comes from within and in opera should be dictated by the music.


Well I admit that Cossotto sure fooled me. What I witnessed drew me right in and certainly did not seem fake to me at all.
Hard to believe that it was, in fact. 
And please don't think for one minute that I really believe in a "chewing the scenery" approach. If you notice my quotes around the word "delicious" were clearly indicating it was a joke. Perhaps you missed it.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Cossotto's performance is from a movie, conducted by Karajan. That's why she could cry, as she was lip syncing. So it's possible she was directed to over-act, not that she was ever a wallflower! :lol:


O...M...G! Who knew? You did! Wow! Thanks. I had a hard time imagining singing while actually crying.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

The three of them could bat 3,4 and 5 in my line-up and I'd win the world series every year!!!

Listening to Tebaldi made me think of something I've said about Bergonzi forever...if he hadn't shared his time with Corelli and come right after DelMonaco he wouldn't have heard that his voice was small nearly as much as he did. And every time I listen to Tebaldi I think if she hadn't shared the time with Callas she never would have been accused of being just a beautiful voice. I personally was more theatrically compelled by the way she held in emotion than the way Cossotto let it out, and when its over...its MY emotional journey that matters to me most! I thought she was phenomenal.

Simionato, in full production, brought the drama - with a wonderful blend of keeping it in and letting it out - home the most for me and sang it magnificently. More drama for her, drama with increased beauty for Tebaldi...tough call but probably Simionato.

Then comes Cossotto. The extra assist from more modern sound certainly helped but I'm not handing the credit over to the techies, Cossotto absolutely ruled!!! The voice was gorgeous, powerful and the drama that I thought was over-emoted in her acting was not so in her singing. For me, she hit the home run!


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I'm finding I like Tebaldi more in music like this, that doesn't scream "beautiful voice", like Desdemona's last act or Signore Ascolta. The beauty is clearly an enormous asset but I get caught up in how she sings the music here more than how she sounds.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I'm finding I like Tebaldi more in music like this, that doesn't scream "beautiful voice", like Desdemona's last act or Signore Ascolta. The beauty is clearly an enormous asset but I get caught up in how she sings the music here more than how she sounds.


She is not consistently moving like La Divina, but she can at times be very moving in addition to her miraculous legato.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> I'm finding I like Tebaldi more in music like this, that doesn't scream "beautiful voice", like Desdemona's last act or Signore Ascolta. The beauty is clearly an enormous asset but I get caught up in how she sings the music here more than how she sounds.


Tebaldi inspires quite a wide range of reactions and opinions here. That doesn't surprise me since I react quite variably to her myself - which in turn doesn't surprise me because I think she was very variable as a singer, musician and actor. For years I wasn't really interested in her at all - I was too busy having my socks knocked off by Callas when I wasn't wrapped up in Wagneriana - but it was only a matter of time till I heard the beauties that others hear. I still think she was a rather middling musician; I feel that she often failed to conceive an aria in a way that unified its details into a clear, purposeful structure, and tended to fall into obvious and trite emotive effects that stick out (the vulgar ending of this "Voi lo sapete" is a case in point). Of course she's far from alone in this, especially among Italians, who probably define vulgarity rather differently than some of us do.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Cossotto's performance is from a movie, conducted by Karajan. That's why she could cry, as she was lip syncing. So it's possible she was directed to over-act, not that she was ever a wallflower! :lol:


Are you sure this is a movie? If it is then why has Karajan dubbed in applause at the end? There are quite a number of his filmed live opera performances knocking around. The problem is I can't find any details on the YouTube


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Toscanini said of Tebaldi her voice was "la voce d'angelo" ("the voice of an angel"), and Riccardo Muti called her "one of the greatest performers with one of the most extraordinary voices in the field of opera." He was of course one of the greatest voices ever in the history of opera for sheer sound. She was also wise enough to know the limits of her voice and not sing stuff that her voice wasn’t suited to. Simionato was a tremendous singer but caught too late on this clip. One of the problems here is the embarrassment of riches with great singers.


----------



## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Tebaldi inspires quite a wide range of reactions and opinions here. That doesn't surprise me since I react quite variably to her myself - which in turn doesn't surprise me because I think she was very variable as a singer, musician and actor. For years I wasn't really interested in her at all - I was too busy having my socks knocked off by Callas when I wasn't wrapped up in Wagneriana - but it was only a matter of time till I heard the beauties that others hear. I still think she was a rather middling musician; I feel that she often failed to conceive an aria in a way that unified its details into a clear, purposeful structure, and tended to fall into obvious and trite emotive effects that stick out (the vulgar ending of this "Voi lo sapete" is a case in point). Of course she's far from alone in this, especially among Italians, who probably define vulgarity rather differently than some of us do.


Tebaldi, like Most singers of the Verismo age, lacked complete mastery of the instrumental aspects of singing such as rhythmic accuracy, use of accents and rubato, but was great with words.


----------



## khalid (11 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> The three of them could bat 3,4 and 5 in my line-up and I'd win the world series every year!!!
> 
> Listening to Tebaldi made me think of something I've said about Bergonzi forever...if he hadn't shared his time with Corelli and come right after DelMonaco he wouldn't have heard that his voice was small nearly as much as he did. And every time I listen to Tebaldi I think if she hadn't shared the time with Callas she never would have been accused of being just a beautiful voice. I personally was more theatrically compelled by the way she held in emotion than the way Cossotto let it out, and when its over...its MY emotional journey that matters to me most! I thought she was phenomenal.
> 
> ...


You're right, Tebaldi can be very moving, especially in roles that wasn't recorded by Callas like Desdemona, Elisabetta, Adriana, and Wally. She can be very stationary in roles that require a lot of movement like Tosca but vocally, she can sing with a lot of pathos if she chose to, almost like Muzio. For example her la mamma morta in 1949 with De Sabata.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> Tebaldi, like Most singers of the Verismo age, lacked complete mastery of the instrumental aspects of singing such as *rhythmic accuracy, use of accents and rubato*, but was great with words.


Those things fall under the general heading of "musicianship." Opera singers tend to hold themselves, and be held, to a lower standard than other musicians. If you can make an exciting noise, fans may expect nothing more from you.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

marlow said:


> Are you sure this is a movie? If it is then why has Karajan dubbed in applause at the end? There are quite a number of his filmed live opera performances knocking around. The problem is I can't find any details on the YouTube


My mistake, the clip is _not_ from the movie as I had first thought - that is a much more static and fake. Apologies!  here's the movie.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Those things fall under the general heading of "musicianship." Opera singers tend to hold themselves, and be held, to a lower standard than other musicians. If you can make an exciting noise, fans may expect nothing more from you.


So true. When Desmond Shawe Taylor reviewed the Callas/Visconti production of *Anna Bolena* for Opera Magazine in 1957, when the opera was virtually unknown, and, performances of bel canto operas, aside from *Il Barbiere di Siviglia*, *Don Pasquale* and *Lucia di Lammermoor*, were few and far between, he had this to say. Asking whether *Anna Bolena* could enter the international repertory, his answer was,



> With Callas, yes; without her, or some comparable soprano of whom as yet there is no sign, no. Many people think it a flaw in these old operas that they depend on the availability of great singers; but what would be the fate of the standard violin and piano concertos if there were scarcely a player who could get his fingers round the notes, let alone fill them with a lulling charm or a passionate intensity?


Well, they now have entered the international repertory, it would seem, though quite often with singers somewhat ill equipped to do them justice.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> So true. When Desmond Shawe Taylor reviewed the Callas/Visconti production of *Anna Bolena* for Opera Magazine in 1957, when the opera was virtually unknown, and, aside from *Il Barbiere di Siviglia*, *Don Pasquale* and *Lucia di Lammermoor*, were few and far between, he had this to say. Asking whether *Anna Bolena* could enter the international repertory, his answer was,
> 
> Well, they now have entered the international repertory, it would seem, though quite often with singers somewhat ill equipped to do them justice.


I saw it live. It needs big talent to bring it alive.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I saw it live. It needs big talent to bring it alive.


I’m reading old posts to make time while recuperating. I saw *Anna Bolena *live several times - performances with Sutherland at SFO and with Carol Vaness on a separate occasion. Different editions, as Vaness wasn’t a bel-cantist.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I’m reading old posts to make time while recuperating. I saw *Anna Bolena *live several times - performances with Sutherland at SFO and with Carol Vaness on a separate occasion. Different editions, as Vaness wasn’t a bel-cantist.





MAS said:


> I’m reading old posts to make time while recuperating. I saw *Anna Bolena *live several times - performances with Sutherland at SFO and with Carol Vaness on a separate occasion. Different editions, as Vaness wasn’t a bel-cantist.


Of course Callas is hard to follow but did you enjoy Joan in the part?She took these heavy Donizetti roles later when her voice had more weight which I think helped in these roles. Carol Vaness was a darling of Speight Jenkins and came here a lot. She was great in Mozart but that doesn't mean you can sing Bel Canto. She was supposed to premiere Norma but got cold feet and that is where Eaglen stepped in and Seattle's love affair with her commenced. I saw it here but didn't really enjoy it. Needs strong leads I think.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Of course Callas is hard to follow but did you enjoy Joan in the part?She took these heavy Donizetti roles later when her voice had more weight which I think helped in these roles. Carol Vaness was a darling of Speight Jenkins and came here a lot. She was great in Mozart but that doesn't mean you can sing Bel Canto. She was supposed to premiere Norma but got cold feet and that is where Eaglen stepped in and Seattle's love affair with her commenced. I saw it here but didn't really enjoy it. Needs strong leads I think.


Unfortunately, I don’t remember much of the performance. It was 1983 or 1984, I think. The _coloratura _was, as always, spectacular, but the word pointing was not; nor was the acting in this role - it’s heavy going and the declamatory passages were her weakest points. She could, and did, sing as many high notes as she could and delivered them unfailingly- that was always her strength.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Unfortunately, I don’t remember much of the performance. It was 1983 or 1984, I think. The _coloratura _was, as always, spectacular, but the word pointing was not; nor was the acting in this role - it’s heavy going and the declamatory passages were her weakest points. She could, and did, sing as many high notes as she could and delivered them unfailingly- that was always her strength.


Thanks. That would have been more than enough for me, but you are a demanding connoisseur I found it to be an opera that needed strong acting to bring it alive.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks. That would have been more than enough for me, but you are a demanding connoisseur I found it to be an opera that needed strong acting to bring it alive.


Sutherland does normally go towards the wounded side of the character while other sopranos might choose a different side; anger, or other more overt emotions.


----------

