# The most affecting dying scenes



## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Having gone through five Don Carlo/s during the weekend, it occurred to me that there would be other dying scenes worth mentioning, apart from Rodrigo's farewell. Fron the female side, Violetta comes to mind, but where does her dying start? with "Dite alla giovine" perhaps. Then the lament of Dido (When I am laid in earth) from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas lept to mind, although I'm not sure if she is going to die rifght after that. Any other suggestions?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Death of Isolde in Wagner's T&I, death of Salome in Strauss Salome, Death of Elektra in Strauss Elektra, death of Leński in Tchaikovsky's Onegin, death of Nedda in Pagliacci by Leoncavallo, uchm, seems like I prefer deaths in ecstasy or something, well, THIS IS TRUE, OCH, ACH <RISES> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <MADMAN'S INSIGHT> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <WEIRD MOVES> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA <STRINGS TREMOLO CRESCENDO> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA <DISSONANT CHORDS REPEATING BRUTALLY> I HAVE WRITTEN THIS POST... TALK CLAAAAAASSICAL... <KILL THAT USER!> DA DA DA DAM.... DA DA DA DAM... <tries to reach the keyboard in vain> <dies> DA DA DAAAAAAAAM...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Carmen's defiance in the face of inevitable stabbing.

Tosca's vertiginous leap into the void.

Bajazet heaping curses on the despot Tamerlano's head

Don Giovanni's determined adherence to liberty and his own way of doing things.

I like my deaths to be active and incensed.

I'm not so keen on the Manon and Mimi school of rather wimpy expiring.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Herkku said:


> Then the lament of Dido (When I am laid in earth) from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas lept to mind, although I'm not sure if she is going to die rifght after that.


In the ROH DVD, Dido slashes her wrists and sings her lament with blood dripping off her hands.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Berg's _Lulu_.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

mamascarlatti said:


> In the ROH DVD, Dido slashes her wrists and sings her lament with blood dripping off her hands.


Man, in the myth didn't she throw herself into a funeral pyre? That seems like a much more dramatic way to go than emo wrist-slitting  I do love that aria, though.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Air said:


> Berg's _Lulu_.


& his _Wozzeck_ as well. Wozzeck stabs his wife, Marie, then later goes back to the nearby lake to dispose of the knife. As he does this, he enters the lake & drowns. Not much action happens, but you get Wozzeck's tormentors going past the lake, who notice Wozzeck drowning, but do nothing. Throughout the whole opera, Berg does not comment on tragic events like this, he just tells the story. But the huge climactic orchestral interlude after the drowning shows so much emotion, it just packs a huge whallop. Then the last scene of Wozzeck & Marie's child playing with a hoop by himself. Schoolmates call him telling him of the death of his parents, but he doesn't react. Inertia in the face of tragedy, that's perhaps the state which Berg conveyed most skilfully of all...


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

mamascarlatti said:


> I like my deaths to be active and incensed.
> 
> I'm not so keen on the Manon and Mimi school of rather wimpy expiring.


I must admit that Manon and Mimi (and Butterfly and Violetta) always put a lump in my throat (I'm a softie ). I always keep hoping for a happy ending. That Mimi will jump out of bed and start singing that joyful last aria from "La Sonnambula" or something.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

The most morbid dying scene for me is the end of Luigi Dallapiccola's Il Priogionero.

The whole opera feels you urging the prisoner to escape, but it is dangerous so he doesnt, then you feel such an attachment to this guy and you wish he would escape from his cell and go out into the world; after all hes been given the opportunity.

Then he finally does and you can relax in your seat again.

NOT>>> He dies, brutal, cruel, without-warning death.


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

I love the way Salome's death is saddening (suggesting a life wasted on a search for external validation) yet darkly comic at the same time.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

My favorites are Gilda's death in RIGOLETTO and Elektra's in ELEKTRA.

Edited to add: Oh, and Norma and Pollione's in NORMA, of course.

And, last but not least, this one from LUISA MILLER:


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## JohnGerald (Jul 6, 2014)

Mimi always gets the tears: DVD on Art Haus with Mula and Machado.

Manon on Erato DVD with Dessay. The acting is amazing!

The tomb scene from Aida on Opus Arte with Hui He.

One has to be more of a crusty curmudgeon than I (and I am!) not to melt at any one of these. It's why opera can be such a compelling theatrical experience.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yeah. The tomb scene from Aida and Gilda's death from Rigoletto always get to me.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Yes indeed, dying people singing arias is the cornerstone of opera.

The one i'm still waiting for is contemporary. The Jodi "Arias" murder of Travis Alexander.:tiphat:


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Lulu - but which death? The painter's, Schon's or Lulu's? Each has it's wondrous qualities, but the scream and the countess's song for Lulu (not to mention the audience's uneasy relationship with our protagoniste) probably make that THE "killer" death scene

While I'm on Lulu, let's just all take a moment to luxuriate in one of the great lines of opera: "Isn't this the sofa on which your father bled to death?"


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

dgee said:


> Lulu - but which death? The painter's, Schon's or Lulu's? Each has it's wondrous qualities, but the scream and the countess's song for Lulu (not to mention the audience's uneasy relationship with our protagoniste) probably make that THE "killer" death scene
> 
> While I'm on Lulu, let's just all take a moment to luxuriate in one of the great lines of opera: "Isn't this the sofa on which your father bled to death?"


LOL, and true. A blood curdling scream, brief, is very believable if one's throat is being slit by Jack the Ripper, and that mourning love of the unwanted attentions of Countess Geschwitz being so purely heartfelt in her brief but beautiful _Lulu! Mein Engel_ is I'm sure 'conflicting' to audiences.

*"Isn't this the sofa on which your father bled to death?"* -- well, plainly, Lulu is innocent in her amorality, central to her character. Nearly as good is the moment after her husband, who bled to death on that sofa, is clearly dead and Lulu's instant very next out-loud thought is *"Now I am rich."*

I have to go with another of the more believable deaths, Verdi's Violetta singing in halting and short gasping phrases because she is dying of TB _(in Zeferelli's film version, it is even ambiguous if Alfredo's visit is real, or a hallucination caused by the fever and oxygen deprivation of TB_) -- Violetta's death scene is far more believable than a longish farewell to her father aria after the soprano has been delivered a deep and mortal knife wound to the stomach and then stuffed in a sack! (_Rigoletto_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Surprised to see 5 prominent hold-on-to-your-seats death scenes not mentioned here.
1. Dialogues of the Carmelites (it doesn't get any rougher than that one)
2. Adriana Lecouvreur (especially as done by Magda Olivero)
3. Otello
4. Madama Butterfly
5. Manon Lescaut


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I'll give my nod to The Cunning Little Vixen. My reason is the way the opera is promoted - usually you'll see a poster like this...










Cute, right? All the little animals singing in the forest. Let's take the kids to the opera.

Act I: We watch the antics of our our heroine performed by a child. She IS cunning....awww.
Act II: She's all grown up. Meets boy fox...wedding...baby foxes....awww.
Act III: A poacher with a shotgun unloads both barrels into the cunning little vixen's face. Welcome to opera, kids.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Another worthy mention of course is The Golden Cockerel. How often do you get to see a king being assassinated by a chicken?

(1:50 - roll tape!)


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## Rackon (Apr 9, 2013)

Werther. For a change the tenor goes mad and has a prolonged death scene.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm not actually sure what an *e*ffecting ending is. Is it one with flashing lights and smoke machines? :lol:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Couac Addict said:


> I'll give my nod to The Cunning Little Vixen. My reason is the way the opera is promoted - usually you'll see a poster like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> I'm not actually sure what an *e*ffecting ending is. Is it one with flashing lights and smoke machines? :lol:


The OP is Finnish. He writes English probably better than any of us writes Finnish.


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## Danforth (May 12, 2013)

The deaths of Achilles and Penthesilea in Othmar Schoeck's _Penthesilea_, which somehow manage to be more disturbing than the deaths in _Salome_ and _Elektra_.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

My apologies. He does indeed. That being so, someone could have gently pointed out his mistake, or did nobody else actually notice? 



mamascarlatti said:


> The OP is Finnish. He writes English probably better than any of us writes Finnish.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

GregMitchell said:


> My apologies. He does indeed. That being so, someone could have gently pointed out his mistake, or did nobody else actually notice?


I don't think we thought it mattered very much.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I noticed but I am in constant awe of his colloquial command of the English language. Even native speakers make this mistake.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

It didn't effect me


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Itullian said:


> I don't think we thought it mattered very much.


And that is what is wrong with the world. Grammar and spelling do matter.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Even native speakers make this mistake.


....which is unforgivable. In the immortal words of Henry Higgins (or, more correctly Alan Jay Lerner), "Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?"


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Well it's to do with the pronunciation, rather than grammar. When spoken, both effecting and affecting start with a schwa sound, the most common sound in the English language and one which is often found in unstressed syllables. You can't tell them apart by listening to them. I'm not surprised people get them mixed up. And when you think that standardised spelling is relatively recent - Shakespeare was a stranger to it, I don't honestly think getting these two mixed up is too bad.

PS but I edited it anyway


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

The finale of Jake Heggie's "Dead Man Walking."


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Well it's to do with the pronunciation, rather than grammar. When spoken, both effecting and affecting start with a schwa sound, the most common sound in the English language and one which is often found in unstressed syllables. You can't tell them apart by listening to them. I'm not surprised people get them mixed up. And when you think that standardised spelling is relatively recent - Shakespeare was a stranger to it, I don't honestly think getting these two mixed up is too bad.
> 
> PS but I edited it anyway


And thank you for that.

Sorry to be such a pedant, but the two words (in English English anyway) do not sound the same.

Affect is pronounced /əˈfɛkt 
Effect is pronounced /ɪˈfɛkt/

And with that we're back to Henry Higgins :lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> And thank you for that.
> 
> Sorry to be such a pedant, but the two words (in English English anyway) do not sound the same.
> 
> ...


And how nice to be back! Henry is a friend of mine. Here in the land of vague vowels and nonexistent consonants one needs such friends. Years ago I had a conversation in which I was told that someone had been "baried." It occurred to me to ask the person to pronounce the words "bury," "berry," and "barely." The vowel sounded identical in all three. I groaned, went home and called Henry long distance (it's very long distance to where he is now), and took great comfort in the beautifully articulated sounds which floated down to me from, as it were, another world. I slept well that night.

All praise to pedantry!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Originally Posted by GregMitchell
> And thank you for that.
> 
> Sorry to be such a pedant, but the two words (in English English anyway) do not sound the same.
> ...





Woodduck said:


> And how nice to be back! Henry is a friend of mine. Here in the land of vague vowels and nonexistent consonants one needs such friends. Years ago I had a conversation in which I was told that someone had been "baried." It occurred to me to ask the person to pronounce the words "bury," "berry," and "barely." The vowel sounded identical in all three. I groaned, went home and called Henry long distance (it's very long distance to where he is now), and took great comfort in the beautifully articulated sounds which floated down to me from, as it were, another world. I slept well that night.
> 
> All praise to pedantry!


You our are resident expert, Professor. Thank you for tending too our elocutionary gardens. The plane in Spane never had much rayne to begin with.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> You our are resident expert, Professor. Thank you for tending too our elocutionary gardens. The plane in Spane never had much rayne to begin with.


I shall assume that "too" is a mere typographical slip and not call for your execution. But do fire your proofreader.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I shall assume that "too" is a mere typographical slip and not call for your execution. But do fire your proofreader.


The homonym "too"--- certianly; but also the homonyms "our" and "are" being transposed; "plane" for "plain"; "Spane" for "Spain"; "rayne" for "rain."

-- You're slipping. Have you been hanging out with Eliza or something? Or are you just blonde?. . . like _moi_.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

*Tchaikovsky's "Mazeppa."*
-The executions of Kochubey and Iskra (end of act II).
-The dying of Andrei, over whom Mariya sings the lovely lullaby (end of act III).

*Tchaikovsky's "The Queen of Spades."*
-Lisa's suicide (end of scene II of act III).

*Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov."*
-The death of Boris (act IV).

*Mussorgsky's "Khovanshchina."*
-The assassination of Prince Ivan Khovansky (end of scene II of act IV).
-The immolations of Dosifey, Marfa, Prince Andrey Khovansky, and the Old Believers (end of act V).

*Anton Rubinstein's "The Demon."*
-The death of Tamara after the Demon kissed her. Her soul later goes to heaven as the Demon is condemned to hell (scenes V & VI of act III).

*Dmitry Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth."*
-Katerina and Sergei strangle Zinovy (scene V, act II).
-Katerina who pushes Sonyetka into an icy river, with herself falling in as well (scene IX, act IV).

*Pietro Mascagni's "Cavalleria rusticana."*
-Turiddu's murder.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> The homonym "too"--- certianly; but also the homonyms "our" and "are" being transposed; "plane" for "plain"; "Spane" for "Spain"; "rayne" for "rain."
> 
> -- You're slipping. Have you been hanging out with Eliza or something? Or are you just blonde?. . . like _moi_.


"Certianly"?

Most of the others I assumed to be intentional. Only the transposition of "are" and "our" escaped me; it came too early, therefore was rushed past.

Perhaps I am slipping a bit. I am not blonde. Does moderately balding count?

In any event, extensive proofreading is beneath me. ut:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> "Certianly"?
> 
> Most of the others I assumed to be intentional. Only the transposition of "are" and "our" escaped me; it came too early, therefore was rushed past.
> 
> ...


Competition is my world. But too much confidence. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . gets you sent 'home.'

I walked right_ off _the runway on that one.

*<CRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSHHHHH!>*

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

_;D_


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## JohnGerald (Jul 6, 2014)

While few enjoy discussions of grammar more than I, permit me to address the subject of this thread, death scenes.

Anyone who has spent serious time dealing with death and dying must recognize the irony inherent it trying to make such a scene pleasing. Most times, the experience is full of anguish, and frequently, incredible suffering. To successfully transpose such an event into a dramatic and musical experience seems miraculous. Successful death scenes, I think, focus the attention on the tragedy of the death, rather than on the process. If one has bonded with the character on stage, the sense of profound loss attributed to actual death seems to carry over into the theatrical version.

I suspect that my reactions to the deaths of Mimi and Manon are such, but I am not often in a philosophical mind set while enjoying opera. But my reactions to the aforesaid death scenes remain constant, nomatter how many Bohemes or Manons I see.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Look at the end of Ponnelle's film of Butterfly with Freni. No wonder Domingo runs through the wall!


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## Sonneteer (Aug 3, 2014)

mamascarlatti said:


> Don Giovanni's determined adherence to liberty and his own way of doing things.


I've always been of mixed feelings here. While the whole story, or stories (if you take into account the other versions of Don Juan), is about his sexuality, in Mozart's version you have the last 24 hours of the life of the legendary libertine. In that 24 hours, he strikes out with all the women he tries to seduce, making the famous "catalog" aria seem more like wishful thinking. At the end, he is damned by the Commendatore; but what has he done to the Commendatore? He never got to first base with Donna Anna, but he *did* kill the Commendatore, making it seem like he was damned for murder and not for his failed seductions.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Sonneteer said:


> He never got to first base with Donna Anna,


we don't actually know to what base they got...


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## JohnGerald (Jul 6, 2014)

Of course he was damned for the death of the Commendatore! Moral standards of the time (for Mozart's audience) viewed sexual exploits as relatively minor things. "It's what folks do"! But killing an authority figure?? No punishment is too severe for that!!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

JohnGerald said:


> Of course he was damned for the death of the Commendatore! Moral standards of the time (for Mozart's audience) viewed sexual exploits as relatively minor things. "It's what folks do"! But killing an authority figure?? No punishment is too severe for that!!


To me it's obvious from da Ponte's libretto that the Don is damned for his lifestyle, not just for killing the Commendatore. It's the rd ently murdered man who comes and pronounces justice.


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## Kilgore Trout (Feb 26, 2014)

Tadeusz's death after playing Bach as an act of resistance against nazis in Weinberg's _The Passenger_.

The invisible and anti-Wagnerian death of Mélisande in Debussy's _Pelléas et Mélisande_. "C'était un pauvre petit être mystérieux comme tout le monde".


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## Autumn Leaves (Jan 3, 2014)

Rodrigo's death in Verdi's _Don Carlo_.

Tsar Boris's gradual decline and death in _Boris Godunov_. Basically he's shown certainly doomed from almost the beginning.

And, of course, the most touching ones for me are from Wagner:

Senta throwing herself into the sea in _Der fliegende Holländer_, although it's clearly only the body's death and the soul triumphs.

Elsa's death in the end of _Lohengrin_.

Fasolt's murder in _Das Rheingold_ - especially horrible in its quickness and in the fact that it goes practically unnoticed.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm sure this is thoroughly off-topic, but what's the difference between 'bury' and 'berry', pronunciation-wise?
Just curious because Berry was my maiden name!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

And...

*Aarre Merikanto's opera "Juha."*
->Juha jumps into the river after it was revealed that his wife, Marja, cheated on him with a younger man of dubious character Shemeikka (final scene).
-->


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I'm sure this is thoroughly off-topic, but what's the difference between 'bury' and 'berry', pronunciation-wise?
> Just curious because Berry was my maiden name!


The best I can do here is to say that the vowel in "bury" approximates that in "burr" (as in Raymond Burr), while that in "berry" (as in Perry Mason) tends toward "eh." However, vowels in English of any dialect or accent are often impure and inflected (infected? infested?) with diph- and triph- (and worse) thongs, as well as variable according to context, so there is no "correct" pronunciation. One simply chooses to make distinctions and sound educated, thoughtful, and articulate. Or not.

Nothing to do with mere snobbery, needless to say. :lol:


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

Well one fizzling out death that has an affect on me is the death of Aschenbach in Britten's Death in Venice.


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## marienbad (Aug 10, 2014)

Dialogue of the Carmelites - one of the most stunning endings in not just opera but any performance art.


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## satoru (May 29, 2014)

marienbad said:


> Dialogue of the Carmelites - one of the most stunning endings in not just opera but any performance art.


I finished listening to it few hours ago... Shocking ending...


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The best I can do here is to say that the vowel in "bury" approximates that in "burr" (as in Raymond Burr), while that in "berry" (as in Perry Mason) tends toward "eh." However, vowels in English of any dialect or accent are often impure and inflected (infected? infested?) with diph- and triph- (and worse) thongs, as well as variable according to context, so there is no "correct" pronunciation. One simply chooses to make distinctions and sound educated, thoughtful, and articulate. Or not.
> 
> Nothing to do with mere snobbery, needless to say. :lol:


Elocution and diction.

Things that are experientially imbibed and tacitly understood-- and not something that can be formulated with finality by any Strunk-and-White or editor at the Chicago Manuel of Style.

Who needs the dead hand of rules when you have the _la crème de l'expérience_ on your side?--- Or, less-politely put: 'prejudice.'

Burke trumps Descartes every time.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Elocution and diction.
> 
> Things that are experientially imbibed and tacitly understood-- and not something that can be formulated with finality by any Strunk-and-White or editor at the Chicago Manuel of Style.
> 
> ...


What he say? :lol:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Sorry, blonde-moment number one for tonight.

- What'd 'who' say?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Sorry, blonde-moment number one for tonight.
> 
> - What'd 'who' say?


My moment. I have a hard time following your super eloquent language sometimes.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

No, I'm a self-indulgent, stream-of-consciousness bubble head.

All I was saying is that we learn to speak eloquently by listening to others, and not by learning it from a rule book on style.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> No, I'm a self-indulgent, stream-of-consciousness bubble head.
> 
> All I was saying is that we learn to speak eloquently by listening to others, and not by learning it from a rule book on style.


Now I got it.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Whoever it was on this website who pointed out Verdi's "oompah rhythms" has ruined for me the dramatic effect of Violetta's death.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

marinasabina said:


> Whoever it was on this website who pointed out Verdi's "oompah rhythms" has ruined for me the dramatic effect of Violetta's death.


What "oompah rhythms"? Can't say I've noticed them and I must have heard *La Traviata* a hundred times at least.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

How about "Libiamo?"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> How about "Libiamo?"


I don't think you got my point.

If you fixate on what, after all, was a standard accompanying figure of the time, then you'll miss out on everything else that is in the score. I don't notice them, because I don't choose to. They are all part and parcel of this magnificent score.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I don't think you got my point.
> 
> If you fixate on what, after all, was a standard accompanying figure of the time, then you'll miss out on everything else that is in the score. I don't notice them, because I don't choose to. They are all part and parcel of this magnificent score.


Actually, it doesn't bother me at all. It was the Verdi style of the time and other of his operas evoke the same oom pah pah style like Ballo, Trovatore etc. It is interesting to see how his style changed as he matured.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Thank you both. I just needed a little perspective. La Traviata is still one of my favorites.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Actually, it doesn't bother me at all. It was the Verdi style of the time and other of his operas evoke the same oom pah pah style like Ballo, Trovatore etc. It is interesting to see how his style changed as he matured.


Though I might point out that in some performances (Solti's *Traviata* with Gheorgiu, for instance), it's almost impossible not to notice. As usual in Verdi he is foursquare and his conducting lacks lyricism. Gheorgiu's appreciable debut as Violetta could have done with better surroundings.


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