# SS 13.06.20 - Haydn #45 "Farewell"



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:*

Franz Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809)*

Symphony #45 in F sharp minor, Hob. I/45 "Farewell"

1. Allegro assai
2. Adagio
3. Menuet e trio
4. Finale: Presto
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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Another weekend is upon us and another Symphony is up for your listening enjoyment. This week it's the return of Papa Haydn and his 45th Symphony. I always enjoy a weekend with Haydn so I'm looking forward to hearing this one again. I hope everyone can join in and give this one a listen. There's tons of recordings of this one so it should be easy for everyone to find one without a YouTube link.

I'll be listening to:







Antal Dorati/Philharmonia Hungarica


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Another Haydn Saturday
I shall start with Dorati and Fischer and then go for a HIP performance with Pinnock
Might even explore a few more


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I love this piece. Beyond the joke/gesture/gimmick at the end, this is one of his finest Sturm und Drang works.

Pinnock as starters for me. Barry Wordsworth on Naxos is very good here too!


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

One of my most favorite Haydn's Symphonies. I will go with Koopman, Pinnock & Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, maybe then I will continue, there are a lot of possibilities ...


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## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm going to go the period instrument route for this with Derek Solomons and L'Estro Armonico. Judging from this recording and others I really should get more Haydn on period instruments as this is definitely a passionate performance from Solomons' crew.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Pinnock for me here.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Dorati for me


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

From my collection


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I'll go with Pinnock









but will also listed to Fischer ... and to Harnoncourt


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm not going with the usual Fischer. I'm playing this one instead and it's a nice recording from a decent, if patchy, set.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I'll give this one from Tafelmusik a spin later today - for me a change from Pinnock and Hogwood.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I'm going with three recordings. The one I listen to regularly is by Kammerorchester Berlin, a small, non-HIP ensemble that I like very much. The others are the Dorati/Philharmonia Hungarica (dare I say, the reference recording), and the HIP by Brueggen/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

In fact I listened to four (I found I had the Dorati as well as Pinnock, Harnoncourt and Fischer). All were good and even the Dorati was less boring than I often find with his set. The Pinnock Sturm und Drang recordings have always been special to me - for the sound they make as much as the constantly engaging and lively interpretation - and in this one I definitely prefer his to the Fischer, which lacks the loving attention of the others. Harnoncourt is good but, for me, not as good as the Pinnock.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Merl said:


> I'm not going with the usual Fischer. I'm playing this one instead and it's a nice recording from a decent, if patchy, set.
> 
> View attachment 137820


This one for me as well.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Haydn: Symphonies Nos. 44-49
English Chamber Orchestra; Daniel Barenboim

Not everyone's cup of tea. These recordings are probably some of worst i have heard. The sound is appalling, but the performances are not that bad. Very understated and you get Haydn pure and simple.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> I love this piece. Beyond the joke/gesture/gimmick at the end, this is one of his finest Sturm und Drang works


Actually, Haydn's intent was not meant as a joke or a gimmick...it was a protest demonstration on behalf of the musicians....after an extremely long season performing for Prince Ezterhazy, Haydn and his musicians were eager to return home, to their families....but the Prince extended the season even longer....Haydn, to illustrate the point of his musicians' desire to be released, composed/ choreographed the steady departure of the orchestra in the last mvt of the symphony. Haydn's statement has to he an early example of music to promote the cause of organized labor!!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> Actually, Haydn's intent was not meant as a joke or a gimmick...it was a protest demonstration on behalf of the musicians....after an extremely long season performing for Prince Ezterhazy, Haydn and his musicians were eager to return home, to their families....but the Prince extended the season even longer....Haydn, to illustrate the point of his musicians' desire to be released, composed/ choreographed the steady departure of the orchestra in the last mvt of the symphony. Haydn's statement has to he an early example of music to promote the cause of organized labor!!


Indeed, hence my use of the word "gesture". We discussed this very Symphony over on the old Amazon forum, and somebody described it as a mere gimmick, I seem to remember.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Listened to several versions today 
I think of those I listened to I would give first place to Fischer, the ensemble seemed just right and the recording very good. Second place I would give to Dorati with another solid performance perhaps just a little less urgency to the playing and hence a bit less angst in this minor key work
I really like Pinnock with the HIP versions, but oddly when I listened to this one straight after Fischer it just didn’t seem to have the same impact so it gets third place today
Lastly I tried Bruggen with the OAE and although this is a popular version the recording sounded rather dull and the performance I would describe as satisfactory rather than good, so this one gets 4th place 
Much as Dorati is my long term favourite with Haydn, I must say the Fischer set keeps impressing me


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Haydn man said:


> Listened to several versions today
> I think of those I listened to I would give first place to Fischer, the ensemble seemed just right and the recording very good. Second place I would give to Dorati with another solid performance perhaps just a little less urgency to the playing and hence a bit less angst in this minor key work
> I really like Pinnock with the HIP versions, but oddly when I listened to this one straight after Fischer it just didn't seem to have the same impact so it gets third place today
> Lastly I tried Bruggen with the OAE and although this is a popular version the recording sounded rather dull and the performance I would describe as satisfactory rather than good, so this one gets 4th place
> Much as Dorati is my long term favourite with Haydn, I must say the Fischer set keeps impressing me


You're probably saying what I am thinking as well. I reckon Dorati is significantly better than Adam Fischer in the later Symphonies, but Fischer better in the earlier ones. Marzendorfer is possibly more consistent, but I cannot escape that unfortunate sense of a hint of blandness throughout. I expect I am in a minority there. I hope so.

I listened to Marzendorfer and to Pinnock. I found the latter stupendous. Then it was Wordsworth, a toss up between him and Pinnock. Sadly, this work isn't in the abandoned Goberman set, but you should here those, they are a wonderful testament to him and to Haydn throughout.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Going with Bruno Weil and Tafelmusik


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

CnC Bartok said:


> Indeed, hence my use of the word "gesture". We discussed this very Symphony over on the old Amazon forum, and somebody described it as a mere gimmick, I seem to remember.


Joke, gesture, or gimmick, the ending is like a joke because (for me) it palls in the retelling.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Listen to few versions since Saturday and Dorati hits the mark with me. A warm natural sound, very consistent performance. Amazing as these were recorded some years ago and still sound great now.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Joke, gesture, or gimmick, the ending is like a joke because (for me) it palls in the retelling.


Ah! I remember now, it was you who was somewhat dismissive of this work all those moons ago.....:tiphat:


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I have Hogwood's with the Academy of Ancient Music.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Joachim Raff said:


> View attachment 137959
> 
> 
> Listen to few versions since Saturday and Dorati hits the mark with me. A warm natural sound, very consistent performance. Amazing as these were recorded some years ago and still sound great now.


Did you compare this with the Fischer version?
I am a long term Dorati devotee but would give Fischer the edge on this one as per my comments above.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Joke or protest? A joke as a good natured protest was perhaps one of the few options open to Haydn at that time. Gimmick? Well, yes, but so what? And having audiences listening lots of times to each of his works was hardly likely to be uppermost in Haydn's mind. Not only was rudely protesting not a good idea back then but also they didn't have recordings. I suspect one of the reasons that new music these days can seem to lack tunes and earwigs is that today's composers know we can listen many times to a work before really getting it.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Haydn man said:


> Did you compare this with the Fischer version?
> I am a long term Dorati devotee but would give Fischer the edge on this one as per my comments above.


Yes, i compared, and a lot comes down to taste. The performances are both very good but i prefer the pace of Dorati. He never seems rushed and gives the work plenty of air. Fisher is brisker and racy. Like he has the foot on the accelerator a bit more i find comfortable with. Also the sound is slightly thinner and sometimes distant in tone. Dorati and Decca have a warmer, more fuller bodied sound.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> You're probably saying what I am thinking as well. I reckon Dorati is significantly better than Adam Fischer in the later Symphonies, but Fischer better in the earlier ones. Marzendorfer is possibly more consistent, but I cannot escape that unfortunate sense of a hint of blandness throughout. I expect I am in a minority there. I hope so.
> 
> I listened to Marzendorfer and to Pinnock. I found the latter stupendous. Then it was Wordsworth, a toss up between him and Pinnock. Sadly, this work isn't in the abandoned Goberman set, but you should here those, they are a wonderful testament to him and to Haydn throughout.


I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Naxos set. It's inconsistent but when it's good it's very good.some of the Ward / Northern CO discs are very average and some are very good. The Toronto and Cologne discs are the best in the set, though.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Merl said:


> I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Naxos set. It's inconsistent but when it's good it's very good.some of the Ward / Northern CO discs are very average and some are very good. The Toronto and Cologne discs are the best in the set, though.


That's the trouble with the Naxos set, inconsistency. However, I like the Nicholas Ward recordings, and don't find any of them average. I am not sure this counts as a cycle, six different conductors?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> That's the trouble with the Naxos set, inconsistency. However, I like the Nicholas Ward recordings, and don't find any of them average. I am not sure this counts as a cycle, six different conductors?


You can get it boxed so whilst not strictly a 'cycle' it's available as one.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Merl said:


> You can get it boxed so whilst not strictly a 'cycle' it's available as one.


I collected them one by one. Much more fun!!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Listened to the Dorati because I always listen to the Dorati (except for an occasional Kuijken). It was all good except that last bit.


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