# creative use of the voice in classical music



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I really like how modern classical music has used the voice in very different and creative ways. Ligeti and Ohana are two composers who managed to make something truly original and expressive like the two pieces before, where the voice is used as an instrument.
I like also (to a lesser degree) the experiments of singers like Meredith Monk or Diamanda Galas (not a fan of Demetrio Stratos's albums).
Giacinto Scelsi made some beautiful pieces like Canti del capricorno.
And there's also Berio with Kathy Berberian.
What are other significative examples of original uses of the voice?


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I really hope to find suggestions. Or the idea of the voice as an instrument is still unusual in classical music?


----------



## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

norman bates said:


> I really hope to find suggestions. Or the idea of the voice as an instrument is still unusual in classical music?


Kurtág's ouevre is built upon the human voice.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I'll second Kurtag. And don't forget Stimmung!


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

And then there was Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire






and of course Le marteau sans Maître


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

_Coro_ by Luciano Berio, perhaps? Schoenberg's _Pierrot lunaire_ still amazes me - at first I found it hard to believe it was written as early as 1912 as it sounded so...well..._different_. On hearing it for the first time if I was told it was composed forty years later I wouldn't have argued.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)




----------



## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

Today I have been listening for the first time to a composition ("Stimmung") by Stockhausen (thanks to the post above by Enthusiast) and enjoyed it. But quite often I felt reminded of music by ethnic groups - people in the Alps, the Arctic, etc. and of music of earlier times, for example Schulhoff's Sonata Erotica came to mind. Searching the web for reviews of "Stimmung" I found only reviews dealing with the "technical" side of the composition, number of singers, same note etc. Would anybody know on which exact ethnic material the composition is based? Or am I totally wrong with this thought? -

When it comes to creative use of voices in contemporary music I'm very particular about that. More often than not I dislike the compositions (one of my weaknesses ...). Yet there are a few that I like - but I can't explain why.

Cristobal Halffter: Noche pasiva del sentido





John Cage: The Wonderful Widow of Meadow Springs





Vladimir Martynov: Night in Galicia
My very first exposure to this work, starting with the introduction "A-A-A O-O-O EH-EH-EH EE-EE-EE OO-OO-OO", made me almost choke with laughter (what? this is meant to be music?), but after a while I started to like it ...





continuing with no. 2: The meadow's lowing now is sinking





All compositions of „Night in Galicia" are _"based on the eponymous poem by Velimir Khlebnikov, a key figure in the Russian avantgarde of the 1920s who [...] was keenly interested in ancient Slavic folklore. In particular, this interest expressed itself in the use [...] of the thaumaturgic songs of the river-maidens, which became a constituent part of the poem [...] Their language is believed by some to be akin to the secret language of the Siberian Shamans [...] However, these songs are also close to Khlebnikov's concept of 'trans-sense' language. Combining a thaumaturgic ancient language with the 'trans-sense' language of the avantgarde creates a new linguistic space [...]"_
(text fom the booklet)

Yes, very archaic ...

And while searching other Youtube clips I came across Martynov's "Children of the Otter" which is very archaic as well:





Here are some other Youtube clips I found. To be honest: most of them I don't like, but perhaps you do?

Kaija Saariaho:
- Nuits, adieux: 




Dieter Schnebel: 
- Yes I Will (Molly Bloom's Soliloquy): 



- Für Stimmen (... missa est): 



- Lamento di guerra: 



- Mit diesen Händen: 




Chaya Czernowin
- Adiantum capillus-veneris: 




Wolfgang Rihm
- Frage: 



- Séraphin - Stimmen: 




José M. Sánchez-Verdú 
- Aura:


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

norman bates said:


> I really like how modern classical music has used the voice in very different and creative ways. Ligeti and Ohana are two composers who managed to make something truly original and expressive like the two pieces before, where the voice is used as an instrument.
> I like also (to a lesser degree) the experiments of singers like Meredith Monk or Diamanda Galas (not a fan of Demetrio Stratos's albums).
> Giacinto Scelsi made some beautiful pieces like Canti del capricorno.
> And there's also Berio with Kathy Berberian.
> What are other significative examples of original uses of the voice?


Try Cornelius Cardew's The Great Learning, Ferneyhough's Shadowlands, Birtwistle's Punch and Judy, Holliger's Scardanelli Zyklus, Kurtag Kafka Fragments, Nono's Prometheo, Berio's Sequenza 3, Cage Song Books and Stockhausen's Stimmung. Maybe Maxwell Davies's Mad King things. Just today I've been listening to a really interesting thing by Finnissy


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Alfred Schnittke - Minnesang for 52 voices


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

a lot of interesting recommendations so far!


----------



## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

From two illustrious students of Luigi Nono:


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

John Cage came to mind upon my first seeing this post. He's done quite a bit with experimental vocals. I'm glad he has already been mentioned. And we can thank Joan La Barbara for her contributions to realizing Cage's imagination, too.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...91FC1E8BD1776546893D91FC1E8BD177&&FORM=VRDGAR

And there's this, without Ms. La Barbara.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...BABB23158285A306AD1CBABB23158285&&FORM=VRDGAR

One of my favorite modern vocal works remains Peter Maxwell Davies's _Eight Songs for a Mad King_, of which there are currently several versions available for viewing with online videos:






another:






Enjoy.


----------



## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm not sure whether it would be classed as 'creative', but Vaughan Williams' use of a keening soprano voice at either end of the closing movement of his 3rd Symphony is heart-breakingly effective.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

SONNET CLV said:


> One of my favorite modern vocal works remains Peter Maxwell Davies's _Eight Songs for a Mad King_, of which there are currently several versions available for viewing with online videos:


Excellent suggestion - this recording by the Fires of London contains another fine vocal work of PMD, _Miss Donnithorne's Maggot_. The 'maggot' is this instance is an archaic English term for a strange fantasy or notion - Miss Donnithorne was an Australian woman from the 19th century whose being jilted at the alter hit her so hard that she allegedly spent the remainder of her life in seclusion. It is thought that her sad tale provided the basis for the Charles Dickens character Miss Haversham.


----------



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Here's one:






I don't really like it... but you can't deny it uses the voice very creatively. I'll admit, it's impressive how she makes it seamlessly complement and at times blend with the flute.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Cherubini's _Credo a 8 voci_ amazes me with its never-ending stream of vocal harmony. I can't get enough of it.


----------



## pianoville (Jul 19, 2018)

I don't know if it counts, but the big "ghost" sigh in Bluebeard's Castle is very creepy but also very creative!


----------



## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

Norman Bates - Once in a while I just love to search for Youtube clips referring to a certain theme. I'll post a mixture of more experimental and more traditional compositions and hope that you'll find something to enjoy.

Cristobal Halffter: Yes, Speak Out, Yes (UNO-Cantata, 1968)





Luis de Pablo: Al son que tocan (1974/1975)





Carmelo Bernaola: Ayer ... soñe que soñaba (1975)





Tomás Marco: Ecos de Antonio Machado (1975)





Tomás Marco's composition "Transfiguración" (1973) is said to resemble Ligeti's "Lux Aeterna" (see English Wikipedia entry for Marco; the correct title is "Transfiguracion", not "Transformacion"). The only audible source I could find is a recording by the Spanish Radio (the work starts after approx. 29 minutes):
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/audios/el-mundo-de-la-fonografia/mundo-fonografia-15-06-13/1874909/

Unsuk Chin: Cantatrix Sopranico (2004/05)


----------



## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

continued:

Klaus Lang: Berge. Träume. (2003)





Pascal Dusapin: Anacoluthe (1987)





Philippe Hersant: Stabat Mater (2002)





Georg Friedrich Haas: ... wie Stille brannte das Licht (2009)





Peteris Vasks: Dona nobis pacem (1996)


----------



## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

continued:

Per Norgard: 
- Wie ein Kind (1979/80, rev. 1996)





- Nuit des hommes. Opera(torio) (1996)





Vagn Holmboe: Liber Canticorum [playlist]





Tonu Korvits: Kreegi vihik [Kreek's notebook] (2007)





Sofia Gubaidulina: Jetzt immer Schnee (1993)


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Mysteries of the Macabre (Ligeti arr. Howarth)


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

thanks for all the suggestions, Sonance in particular.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

contemporary composers are good at invoking 'feelings of mysteriousness', but for more direct 'feelings of terror', I think this one does it better. Even better than Verdi's Dies Irae in my view.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I know you are interested mostly in modern classical, but have you heard Machaut? This music is purely vocal and what he does with human voice in it is astounding. None of those modern compositions comes even close. Try his Guillaume de Machaut - Messe de Nostre Dame, if you don't know it.


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I quite like Ligeti's "Madrigals".


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The other day, I did a bit of research among some obvious composer candidates as regards experimental use of the voice. I don't have time to go into detail these days, though.

*John Cage* - Aria (1958) http://non-fiction.nl/?project=opening-performance-of-temporary-stedelijk-2 https://danielsabzghabaei.com/performance-practice-in-john-cages-aria/ 




*Peter Ablinger*: Quadraturen II: 
A Letter from Schönberg 




- Voices and Piano (1998- ) http://counter-melody.com/encounters/voices-and-piano-peter-ablinger/ https://www.paladino.at/cds/0013082kai

- Points and Views (2014; interesting, IMO) 




- The Truth 




*Simon Steen Andersen*:
- Mono, autotune study 




*Georgy Dorokhov -* Concertino (2010) 



- Slaughterman Woke Up Late (2008) (3:40 -> ) 




*Ute Wassermann:*
VoiceXtensions


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)




----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

The singer slowly has a breakdown while giving the recital ...


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Erin Gee: Mouthpieces, series

http://www.erin-gee.com/
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Erin-Gee-Mouthpieces/hnum/4024950


----------



## CR Santa (Mar 31, 2019)

Another aspect of the creative use of the voice involves an incident that happened to me. I sang in choirs for forty years and sometimes we would warm up with do-re-me-etc. Other times we would substitute 1-2-3-etc. which made is an exercise to sing thirds, or fourths as 1-3, 1-4, etc. I had occasion to use this in an unusual setting on day. 

I was listening to classical music on radio when the host introduced the Enigma Variations with comments about the enigma. He said that it had never been solved even though Edward Elgar thought it would be easy, and expected it to be solved on first hearing. He said it was simple. I thought, if it is simple maybe I can do it. Me, a retired engineer who cannot play any instrument. The host said it was about Elgar's circle of friends. I have always believed that music is mathematics made audible and since the music was about a circle maybe it had something to do with mathematics of a circle. Pi is the constant equal to the circumference divided by the diameter of any circle. Pi is often approximated by 3.142 so I decided to try vocalizing 3-1-4-2 (scale degree). Well it sounded exactly like the first four notes of the predominant melody of the enigma variations. Needless to say I was surprised to find it that way.


----------



## leonsm (Jan 15, 2011)

Veljo Tormis - Raua needmine (Curse upon iron)


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

the Eight Songs for a Mad King suggested by Sonnet are great!


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Luciano Berio - "Visage" - written for his then-wife Cathy Berberian....used to be available on a Turnabout [??] LP....NA at present...


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> The other day, I did a bit of research among some obvious composer candidates as regards experimental use of the voice. I don't have time to go into detail these days, though.
> 
> *John Cage* - Aria (1958) http://non-fiction.nl/?project=opening-performance-of-temporary-stedelijk-2 https://danielsabzghabaei.com/performance-practice-in-john-cages-aria/
> 
> ...


Next month I will be attending a ballet set to portions of this work. I should try to listen before I go.


----------



## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I heard this for the first time recently and it really struck me. It uses a unique combination of speaking and singing along with other extended techniques (including what sounds like throat singing at times).
Caroline Shaw's Partita for 8 voices:





I'm not sure if Crumb has been mentioned yet in this thread, but he's done a lot of creative stuff for voices too. 
Here's his Ancient Voices of Children as an example:


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

John Zorn's _Jumalattaret_. It was performed at last summer's Ojai Festival and I remember seeing a video of it but can't find it now.


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

This can be shockingly beautiful:





The recording by Stephen Layton and Polyphony is better than the youtube video but unfortunately isn't available for free anywhere.


----------

