# TC Listening Club Part 13: Symphony No. 5 (Sibelius)



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

PURCHASE OPTIONS

Here are some of the many purchase options available. Any additions are welcome:

Sibelius: Symphony No. 5/Violin Concerto (Rattle, City of Birmingham SO) (EMI)
Sibelius: Symphonies 4-7 (Von Karajan, Berlin Philharmoniker) (Deutsche Grammophon)
Sibelius: Symphonies 5 & 7 (Berglund, Chamber Orch. of Europe) (Finlandia)
Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 5 -7, Oceanides, Finlandia, Tapoila (Berglund, Helsinki Phil. Orch) (EMI)
Sibelius: Symphony No. 5, En Saga, Belshezzar's Feast (Leaper, Slovak Phil. Orch.) (Naxos)
Sibelius: Complete Symphonies (Vanska, Lahti Symphony Orch.) (BIS)
Sibelius Edition (Barbirolli, Halle Orch.) (EMI)

YouTube LINKS

YouTube links for those who require them. There are quite a few available, but here are two:





 (Salonen, Swedish RSO) 




 (Vanska, London Phil. Orch.)

OTHER INFORMATION

BBC 3 have a recorded video talk on this symphony which can be viewed here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/videolibrary/sibelius.shtml

Also check out the official sibelius website:

http://www.sibelius.fi/english/musiikki/ork_sinf_05.htm

The following program notes were written by Paul Serotsky:

Mesmerised by the miracle of childbirth, humankind habitually expects "perfect" things - like this symphony - to have emerged fully-formed from their creative wombs. Whilst this may be the case for some musical masterpieces, the opposite is equally true of many others - like this symphony! 
Sibelius's rise to fame was enviably, if not entirely, smooth. His native Finland had provided him with all he needed. The land and its legends served his unique style and sonorities. During the 1890s, whilst Russia sought to consolidate its dominion over Finland, Sibelius repaid his debt - with fervently nationalistic music that struck a singularly resonant chord in Finnish hearts. By 1900 he had been adopted as a patriotic icon and rewarded with a life pension. Everything in his garden was rosy. 
Well, so it seems. However, every silver lining has a cloud. Sibelius was plagued by self-doubt - even as early as 1890 public acclaim of his Kullervo Symphony didn't dissuade him from dismissing it as technically inadequate. As time passed, he became ever more critical of his own work. This tendency came to a head in 1932, when he burnt the draft of his Eighth Symphony and lapsed into a terminal creative silence - presumably signalling the final triumph of self-criticism over creativity.

In 1909, with Symphonies 1-3 under his belt, the cloud darkened for a different reason: a severe throat problem. His understandable fear that it might be cancer blighted his outlook, as is borne out by the grim edifice of the Fourth Symphony (1911). In the event his fears were unfounded, but for seven long years a ban on his beloved wine and cigars remained a nagging reminder of that "threat from within". 
The Fifth Symphony was written and first performed in celebration of his 50th. birthday. True to form, he was not at all happy with his work. Over the next four years he dismantled and rigorously rebuilt it, the celebrated "telescoping" of the first two movements being merely the tip of a reconstructive iceberg. [1] You could say that it was a "difficult birth", but well worth the pain for such a perfectly sunny and optimistic offspring.

Well, so it seems. However, I suspect that lots of us hear the music that way because we've been "brain-washed" into it. [2] Influenced by traditional received wisdom, are we accentuating the positive and sweeping the negative under the carpet? After all, this is no product of those heady days of emergent Finnish patriotism: it was conceived in 1914, just as war was spreading through Europe. This "threat from without" must have compounded the continuing fears of that "threat from within".

Bearing that in mind - or at least ignoring the received wisdom - maybe we should harken a bit more closely to the music itself? My own attempts to peel off that perceptive patina convince me that the Fifth Symphony, arguably a taut Sibelian equivalent to the titanic turmoil of Mahler's Sixth, is a work less of sunshine and optimism than of monumental struggle.

1. Tempo molto moderato. Traditional sonata-form goes out of the window in this, one of Sibelius's most truly "organic" movements. A horn sows a seed, that seed grows, and that growth spawns two parallel processes. The first works through Sibelius's unique harmony and instrumental colouring, creating a vernal atmosphere that gradually becomes diseased by disturbing spectres. The second operates through line and rhythm: fragmentary materials evolving at a steady pace, set against an accompaniment that becomes more and more agitated. Individually these processes are potent enough, but they combine like saltpetre and sulphur. The inevitable explosion brings blessed release. The "quickening spirit" vanquishes the "forces of darkness", bursting into the bracing air of the original scherzo materials, re-fashioned to propel the movement headlong to a conclusion of unalloyed triumph.

2. Andante mosso, quasi allegretto is in effect a set of variations. What? Plain, old-fashioned variations? Not likely! The first distinct impression is of a tranquil but sturdy pulse, reminiscent of the second movement of Beethoven's Seventh. The second is that the pulsing theme overlays a slowly rotating chorale, like Bruckner's combining of "sacred" chorale with "profane" polka. The third impression is startling: as the pulsing becomes more agitated, we realise that this "game" is being played to much the same rules as the first movement! However, now it's much less clear-cut. Progression is less consistent, sometimes the pulsing theme slips into aching expansiveness and the agitation infects the chorale. Moreover, the crisis is abortive, and there's no release, no triumph - the music just stops. If the first movement reflected the "threat from without", then here Sibelius confronts the more insidious "threat from within".

3. Allegro molto. Will the finale overcome fear and reaffirm victory? The thrilling bustle of the opening theme, like troops busily preparing for battle, suggests a "yes!" that becomes utterly unequivocal when the "general" - a horn theme sometimes dubbed "Thor's Hammer" - strides purposefully amongst his troops. Even the plaintive song that accompanies him expands into impassioned yearning. As an expression of optimism run riot, Sibelius here surpasses even Finlandia! But then what happens? The resumption of the bustle is subdued, the "general's" reappearance ominously tentative. Leaden-limbed, the music struggles even to stand up. It's only through sheer gut-wrenching grit, determination, and colossal force of will that it succeeds in unsheathing its sword of gleaming trumpets and wielding it aloft! And at that precise moment, the first of six hammered chords strikes, a sickening punch to the exposed solar-plexus.

These chords are usually described as "exultant" or "enigmatic" - hardly mutually compatible terms. To these ears they are "victorious" - but the victor is undoubtedly Uncertainty. In his life, Sibelius felt threatened from without and within. In this music, he wages war on two fronts, and it is a war not yet won.

[1] Hear it for yourselves! There is a highly recommended CD (BIS CD-863) of the Lahti SO/Osmo Vanska playing both the original and the final versions. 
[2] Brain-washed? Yes, by multitudes of writers - of reviews, record sleeve and programme notes. In short, people like me bent on telling you what to hear before you hear it. Don't be swayed: by all means read my words, but above all listen to the music and decide for yourselves!


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

UPCOMING

The schedule for the last two Listening Club sessions will be:

PART 14: Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings (Britten) chosen by Petwhac and starting 11/09/12
PART 15: Das Lied von der Erde (Mahler) chosen by Stlukesguildohio and starting 18/09/12

OTHER THREADS#
You can still participate in past Listening Club threads here:

http://www.talkclassical.com/19793-tc-listening-club-week.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/19883-tc-listening-club-week.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/19986-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20078-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20189-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20318-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20413-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20541-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20697-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20858-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/20971-tc-listening-club-part.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/21082-tc-listening-club-part.html


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

This is a piece I'm fairly familiar with (I've got the Rattle Birmingham SO version)
I can't comment on the technical aspects
However I can say : I like it, it's a BIG piece
moving along with great purpose and what a finale
You can almost feel the patriotic pride
9 out of 10 for me with this one


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I've listened to this symphony around 6 times (maybe 20 times to Symphony No.2) and #5 is a new liked one for me. I'll listen to its Karajan's conducts again, for better conclusion.

--
*edit*

Magnificent symphony. 9.2/10 for me


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Love this symphony. It's a giant and has one of hell of an ending.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

As it happens I listened to this piece for the first time a few weeks ago. I have a Sibelius symphonies box set with Colin Davis and the London Symphony Orchestra. Listening to it again, my impressions were similar, just much more positive.

It has a lovely beginning, and the bit I really hooked onto were those high dissonances in the flutes as part of the melodic structure, which rose with the melody. These really caught my attention. The whole thing has quite a bizarre atmosphere which is quite hard to class. After the beginning it really turns much darker, although even with the darkest passages there is some light. The effect is quite unique.

The second movement opens fairly conventionally, and again we have those flutes, although this time they are not so dissonant. I have to say this movement didn't make much of an impression on me.

The last movement is what sold this symphony to me. And that isn't the bizarre Mendelssohnian opening. No, it's the horns. It would be worth a terrible symphony just to have those horns. I love that where the horns keep going up and down again, and the harmony slowly rocks backwards and forwards (about a minute and a half through). It's just so full of longing. It's brilliant. Some of the dissonances here are reminiscent of the flutes at the beginning, which is why I mentioned them. The ending is also pretty powerful. I still can't make up my mind whether it's supposed to be humourous or serious. Actually, I can, I think it's supposed to be *both*.


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

After listening to it for a third time (all three from different recordings, or anyway youtube videos) I can say that it also has became one of my favorites....

At the beginning I could not understanding but then it slowly starting getting to me. 
I just love the parts that the brass and the woodwinds have in this work.

Thanks for introducing me to this one

(and on a totally subjective basis as a rating 8/10)



Arsakes said:


> Magnificent symphony. 9.2/10 for me


Out of curiosity what influenced you for the 0.2?


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm on my second listen-through. I have not been able to devote full attention to the first listen. I know I'll go through it at least once more this week, possibly twice.

My first impression was fairly positive. I enjoyed it, can't say anything specific stood out. I was unfortunately, engaged in other household activities as I listened so I could not give it my full attention. The second time through, the middle movement started out beautiful for me. After the third minute or so, it felt somewhat bland or tepid, but improved again towards the end. I really enjoyed the third movement, a good mix of melody and energy. I would currently rank the symphony overall at 6.5, but the third movement maybe an 8. This ranking could well increase after a few more listens, as a relative novice with only a year of serious listening under my belt and no musical education, it takes me quite awhile to absorb a full sympony.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Them horns are still in my head. I'm sitting here thinking (dee-dah-dee, dee-dah-dee, dee-dah-dee, dee-dah-dee) on permanent repeat. Still, it's worth it 

Overall probably a 7.5/10, (9.5/10 horns ) though I think I need to re-examine my rating system since everything seems to get the same.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Ramako: You're not kidding, that horn section is my favorite part of the symphony.

And I must say, what a difference two days makes!!! One more listen, and I am REALLY digging this symphony. I just finished watching a performance on YouTube. It was the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Jukka-Pekka Saraste. My improved opinion compared to previous listens may be due to 1) Increased familiarity with more listening 2) the live performance itself impacting me, or 3) The fact that I was more focused in my listening as a result of watching the performance (versus background listening while doing other things). It's probably all of the above though I don't know which is the most important element. What I can say is that I am going to try to start watching more of these YouTube performances, both for listening club and otherwise. I have no musical education, and I think for a big orchestral work, it was nice visualize the piece come together with the different instruments.

Right now, I'd be inclined to give it a 9....but I may be overstating my enthusiasm for that single listening experience, so I'll temper it and give it an 8.5. It will be interesting when I return to it down the line where it falls.

So sunny optimism or something darker? I'll grant to you, crmoorhead, that there does seem to be a struggle of sorts going on in the symphony. Hard for me to analyze the whole work, but I think the lovely horns that impacted Ramako and myself so much seem to suggest a sort of warm sounding of hopefulness through that struggle.

One last note; I found myself thinking of Dvorak a little bit with this symphony. Does anyone else? It may be just because I love his use of horns, and because I liked them so much here, I drew that connection. I'm not sure. It's been awhile since I've listened to a Dvorak symphony, maybe I'll give one a spin today and see!

Here was the video I watched:


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

My final impressions before I put this one to bed for awhile. I listened to for the fourth time. I notice how Sibelius seems to let the notes breathe in the early portions of each movement. He takes his time building things up. Occasionally I felt a little impatient waiting for a "fuller" sound, but for the most part I liked it because he stays away from bombast, which I only care for in limited quantities. It's nice to hear each style of instrument have a turn so to speak.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Avengeil said:


> After listening to it for a third time (all three from different recordings, or anyway youtube videos) I can say that it also has became one of my favorites....
> 
> At the beginning I could not understanding but then it slowly starting getting to me.
> I just love the parts that the brass and the woodwinds have in this work.
> ...


I was supposed to give 9.5 but the second movement wasn't great enough.


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