# "Modern" ballet



## niv

Interpret whatever you want by modern. I'm thinking something like this, I saw in Teatro Colon this year and was blown away:


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## aleazk

Seems nice. I would attend to that.


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## sharik

niv said:


>


- a rather mediocre dance production, its neither ballet nor modern, but outdated like hundred years ago.



niv said:


> I saw in Teatro Colon this year and was blown away


it is more likely to get blown away by some hip-hop dance than by this.


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## Huilunsoittaja

This is more modernly modern dance:


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## katdad

niv, that performance is not something I'd call very challenging, although I didn't watch the entire video.

The corps was not synchronized very well -- they needed more practice. When you have a metronomic style of dance where the rhythms are highly coordinated, then it needs to be either almost "robotic" to provide that sort of hypnotic view, or it falls flat.

I'm a modest fan of dance but I cannot remember the style of dance this is called -- it's a specific phrase that describes the coreography. The coreo is based on the general positions (2nd, 4th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, repeat) and then some classic lifts and such. The dance starts with the elemental positions and then slowly creates more and more complicated versions. It's a bit like a fugue. Like I say, there's a specific term for this and I can't remember it.

Okay, but it's not "ballet" but actually modern dance based on classic ballet exercises. And not very entertaining. And not very well danced.

If you're doing classic ballet (old school Russian or French, etc) then the corps is always perfectly synchronized. That's the way it creates the "harmony" visually.

Modern dance is different. You take perhaps classic positions but then alter them so that the corps is not dancing in perfect rhythm and form, but that each member of the corps is slightly out of sync and is, for example, "reaching" or "bending" or whatever almost the same as the other corps members but not exactly.

They therefore form a complex interrelational movement structure that's deliberately imperfect but nearly so. What makes this difficult is that the dancers must be almost synched but aren't exact like in classic ballet. And this creates the tension we see (and hear) in modern music or dance.


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## katdad

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. This is from the beginning portion of Le Sacre du Printemps (Rite of Spring) by Stravinsky, and the dance troupe is, I'm pretty certain, the French "Ballet Preljocaj" whom I've seen perform on tour.

Watch how the dancers of the female corps are seemingly disjointed, not synchronized, but in fact are in "theme" joined together. And watch specifically how the choreography "changes" at 3:45! The corps are apparently disjointed but they slowly join and slowly group themselves, becoming a synchronized group. And then, exactly at 3:45, they join in a perfect harmonious movement.

The change is electric.


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## mstar

Modern ballet? I immediately connect that with Stravinsky. And then I think of colorful, elaborate costumes and sets. Then I think of the appalled concert-goers at the time who did not like the "modern style." Yet, I don't think I connect Stravinsky's ballets directly with "bad" at all! In fact, some are great. I have the last ten minutes of his Firebird in my music folder, for my own listening, and I think it's great! Actually, some of the greatest things in modern have to do with abstract and different "variations" on the more "traditional," if you will, works of the past eras.


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## hreichgott

Food for thought:

The Romantic era in ballet was roughly 1840s through 1880s (130-170 years ago)
The Classical era in ballet was roughly 1890s through 1910s (100-120 years ago)
The Modern era in ballet is often counted from the first performance of Rite of Spring in 1913 (100 years ago)

They are all much closer to each other than they are to the present day.


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## techniquest

I prefer 'grand ballet' with full orchestra and a large cast. Prokofiev and Khachaturian immediately spring to mind as examples of 20th century ballet in this style, but one of my favourites is 'Anna Karenina' by Shchedrin, composed in 1971. Here are some clips from the ballet:


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## sharik

hreichgott said:


> The Modern era in ballet is often counted from the first performance of Rite of Spring


mistakenly so, because in fact _The Rite Of Spring_ has put an end to modern music and dance just the same way as Malevitch's _Black Square_ did to modern painting.

the very idea of 'modern art' has ceased to exist since then, only its hoax is still there.


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## Vaneyes

sharik said:


> mistakenly so, because in fact _The Rite Of Spring_ has put an end to modern music and dance just the same way as Malevitch's _Black Square_ did to modern painting.
> 
> the very idea of 'modern art' has ceased to exist since then, only its hoax is still there.


I'm all ears. Please do elaborate.

View attachment 24972


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## sharik

Vaneyes said:


> Please do elaborate


that is, they cheat you when saying they make 'modern art' because in fact what they do cannot even stand comparison to the artists' of the beginning of 20th century, in terms of being modern and revolutionary.


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## Guest




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## starthrower

La La La Human Steps


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## tdc

some guy said:


>


That was entertaining.


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## Rapide

some guy said:


>


Interesting rubbish. The clip was uploaded nearly three years ago in December 2010 with less than 400 views.


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## Guest

I don't hear much about Tourette's syndrome these days, but it does seem to be still alive and well. Well, the coprolalia part, anyway.


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## bellbottom

techniquest said:


> I prefer 'grand ballet' with full orchestra and a large cast. Prokofiev and Khachaturian immediately spring to mind as examples of 20th century ballet in this style, but one of my favourites is 'Anna Karenina' by Shchedrin, composed in 1971. Here are some clips from the ballet:


Here the ballet dancing is interesting as i see that emotions come into play, whereas ballet performers i knew never show expressions!


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## Mickey

niv said:


> Interpret whatever you want by modern. I'm thinking something like this, I saw in Teatro Colon this year and was blown away:


Part of that looked like a Jazzercise class.


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## millionrainbows

I loved the tatro colon clip. Also note that the clip someguy posted was interactive; she was actually producing the sounds by her movement.

I've never seen such coarse, undignified criticism as I've seen on these kinds of internet forums. I'd be much better off watching re-runs of Gilligan's Island. Will I get an infraction for saying to everyone, "please be civilized?"


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## proclo

what about this :


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## sharik

proclo said:


> what about this :


anyone can walk on stage like that. where's the dance?


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## proclo

this is just a trailer...the actual performance is far more complex . The idea is that also the musicians take part in the coreography. The trailer is actually portraying only the musicians but 7 dancers were also involved. I did not see the full performance but I v read few review and all were enthusiastic ...probably there are better clips online if you are interested.
Do you know the work of Rosas ? This is their web page : http://www.rosas.be/en/rosas


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## proclo

probably this is a better example of their work : 



They have done lot of work on Steve Reich music. Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker has a great respect for the music and I feel that this can be perceived in her work either in the music which she select but also for the strict link between music and dance.
This is probably the best known work by them :


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## sharik

proclo said:


>


still looks plain and totally meaningless, devoid of any sense... where's the dance? where's art?


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## sharik

a dance should tell a story. where's the story?


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## proclo

this is up to you to find...
probably the music it'self is a story if it is good enough..... and Anne Therese does a real good service to the music.
Not all dance forms require a story. Any way if you can't find anything good I am afraid we have totally different taste.
Those dancers are top dancers and and they do an amazing job on synchronisation ...not easy for instance be in sinc with drumming by Steve Reich and with his complex phasing thechniques...this is big art to me...if you can't see it I m afraid you are kind of blind on this side. Try to listen to some of Stve Reich music and try to understand his musical universe...probably after that Rosas work will mean something to you...
cheers


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## sharik

proclo said:


> Not all dance forms require a story.


ballet dance certainly does.

every piece of art should either tell a story or convey a message strong enough to be worth telling or conveying.


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## SilverSurfer

I've seen Fases by Rosas and will see soon Ultima vez reissuing What the body does not remember, but, as we say in Spainsh, "About tastes: colours"...


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## proclo

sharik said:


> ballet dance certainly does.
> 
> every piece of art should either tell a story or convey a message strong enough to be worth telling or conveying.[/QUOTE
> 
> I see what you mean...try a bit more harder...Anne Therese is in the history of Coreography how can you judge her work only after viewing few video clip ?! If you want to speak about a specific work wellcome...your monolitic statement sound really dull to me and do not have any kind of interest.


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## proclo

Sharik maybe you ll see something good in this one...





Music\costumes\coreo at such a high level.


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## sharik

proclo said:


> Anne Therese is in the history of Coreography


ah come on... they introduce just any amateur pretending to be a choreographer into the history of dance these days, but its only about politics and ideology pushing all the way, not ballet as such.


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## sharik

proclo said:


> Sharik maybe you ll see something good in this one...


well 'something good' might be seen there in the costumes and filming.


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