# Which Mahler Symphony(s) could you live without?



## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

Done this for Beethoven already, but (in my opinion) Mahler Symphonies are much more _consistently_ good than Beethoven Symphonies. 
Anyway, I would vote for no. 8 and 5. Never been too keen on them, despite their great moments.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Number Eight and Number Four.

I absolutely could not live without 3 or 9.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

I could live with all of them except 9 (and add to that DLvDE). I'd greatly miss the rest though, especially 6 and 8.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

I'm sorry , I'm not into Mahler ... never found a real connection with his music


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

7 for me. Couldn't spare any of the others, even though I am on a hiatus from listening to them at the moment.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

None of them, for me he could have 6 more symphonies.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Nos. 1, 4 and 9 are the only ones I listen to; the rest are too much for me. No. 8 is absurd.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

Mahler never was one of my true favorites. In the future, who knows...
My occasional listening can do just fine without *8* and *9*.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I can live without the 8th because I pretty much live without it now. I only listen to the first half. 
Change the lyrics to the second half, and I'll listen again.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Mahler is the composer I share the most connection with and I love all of his compositions so I couldn't live without any of them.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

So many dislike M8 I can't believe it.
One of my favorite (and yeah, I also like Vaughan Williams' A Sea Symphony as well) but maybe that's because I listen to lots of opera and choral works in general.
Can't be without M7 or M4, hell, if I have to pick one it's going to be Sixth. I'm damn optimistic.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I really love 1, 2, 4, 6, DLvdE, and 10; like 3, 7, and 9 a lot; so if I had to do without one, I guess 5 or 8, though I like them, too. I guess I'll join with the other philistines who aren't so keen on 8 and vote it off the island.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I love the last four minutes of Mahler 8 but the rest simply has not clicked with me through several listens. Besides that he is my favorite symphonist and I can't imagine dispensing with any of the others.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I rarely listen to his third and eighth symphonies. The third is too long, and his eighth has too much singing. Choosing which to live without between these two is a tough decision.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I could live without the No.8, but I really wish the No.6 didn't exist. It has harmed me more than healed.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Glad that you left out no.10, which, of course, one just cannot be without (seriously).


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

BenG said:


> Done this for Beethoven already, but (in my opinion) *Mahler Symphonies are much more consistently good than Beethoven Symphonies.*


My problem with most of Mahler is that I don't think he's sincere in his expression - when listening to much of his music, I always have the impression that he's trying too hard to outdo Bruckner, Beethoven and Wagner, and sometimes I think that he extends too much his symphonies without any need. Where others see passion and strong emotions in many portions of his music, I feel nothing (even if I enjoy his brilliant orchestrations). My blind spot, maybe?

This said, I still love his Ninth, and probably should keep listening to his music to see if I reconsider my position.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

^Really? I think Mahler combines the charm of Johann Strauss II and the drama of Wagner really well. There may be dull moments in his music, but every composer wrote a fair amount of dull music, every moment of his symphonies can't be good (the same applies to Wagner's operas) The one I'm indifferent to is Bruckner. He often seems like "Schubert II" to me.

This is what comes to mind when I think of his music:





In what ways do you think Bruckner was better than Mahler?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Not at all surprised that the 8th gets the highest vote count - by a huge margin. It was music of its time and place. For some time in the world, choral music was highly regarded and quite popular. The Three Choirs Festival in England holds on to that tradition. In an era before movies, TV and the internet, choral extravaganzas were the thing. The 8th was Mahler's contribution to the genre. It's a great piece, but...you just have to hear it live. No recording no matter how good can possibly replicate what this sounds like in concert. It's overwhelming, really. Every recording is just a shadowy reflection of what it sounds like in person. Of course, no recording of any Mahler work can really reproduce the live sound, but in this symphony in particular recordings fail. Having said that, it's still my least favorite of his works. I own (too) many recordings of each of the other symphonies, but no 8 only a small handful.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

The 8th won this thread, and I am not surprised - in a similar TalkClassical poll a long time ago the 8th was also voted as weakest/least favorite Mahler symphony.

I think this is a mistake. The 8th is not some choral extravaganza, it's not weak Wagner, it's not bloated and meandering - it's a highly symphonic work. The Veni Creator is a clear sonata form (and a fun sonata form at that - it's one of his most consistently energetic sonata first movements), and many episodes/key areas in that movement are recalled in the Faust. The melodic content throughout the entire symphony is highly unified, and it makes the appearances of the Veni Creator "motto" in the Faust natural and inevitable. The initial Faust music is derived from the Veni Creator, the "scherzo" episode in the Faust is in turn derived from the Faust opening. I particularly like the lyrical E major (E major also plays an exotic role in the Veni Creator) "love theme" in the Faust, you know, the one with the rising sixth and the harp accompaniment.

The orchestration is much, much less "heavy, full orchestra/choir/symphony of over 9000/quadruple fortissimo bombast" than commonly thought - Mahler disapproved of the nickname and I think the nickname causes bias. And the part-writing is excellent - I don't think Mahler really hit his compositional stride in his first three symphonies, especially his 1st, and I would much rather nominate the 1st for weakest Mahler symphony.

Maybe the only "weakness" of the 8th is that it's the only Mahler symphony that doesn't utilize a strong sense of irony. All of the other symphonies require an ironic component to deliver their message - spectacularly in works like the 4th or Das Lied von der Erde. Other than this lack of irony, there is nothing in the 8th that would make it the weakest symphony.


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## musichal (Oct 17, 2020)

I can live without any of them, or any other composer's works, but I'd miss them terribly. I prefer the desert-island scenario, and whatever I agreed to with some tyrant for assuagement would be lying through my teeth. I'd smuggle. :devil:


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah, you can't really get the true vibe by playing a Mahler symphony on a coconut ...


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> In what ways do you think Bruckner was better than Mahler?


In terms of _feeling_, I much prefer him. I think he's sincere in what he expresses in his music (whatever it is). I feel much more connection with Bruckner than with Mahler in terms of _feeling_, regardless of the existence of dull moments or not in their music. Considering how many people love Mahler in this forum, I suppose that this is a personal problem, not the composer's - a blind spot of mine.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

SeptimalTritone said:


> The 8th won this thread, and I am not surprised - in a similar TalkClassical poll a long time ago the 8th was also voted as weakest/least favorite Mahler symphony.
> 
> I think this is a mistake. The 8th is not some choral extravaganza, it's not weak Wagner, it's not bloated and meandering - it's a highly symphonic work. The Veni Creator is a clear sonata form (and a fun sonata form at that - it's one of his most consistently energetic sonata first movements), and many episodes/key areas in that movement are recalled in the Faust. The melodic content throughout the entire symphony is highly unified, and it makes the appearances of the Veni Creator "motto" in the Faust natural and inevitable. The initial Faust music is derived from the Veni Creator, the "scherzo" episode in the Faust is in turn derived from the Faust opening. I particularly like the lyrical E major (E major also plays an exotic role in the Veni Creator) "love theme" in the Faust, you know, the one with the rising sixth and the harp accompaniment.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. As an ex-hater of the 8th myself, I have since seen the light and come to understand its beauty. It's a top 3 Mahler symphony for me.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

SeptimalTritone said:


> The 8th won this thread, and I am not surprised - in a similar TalkClassical poll a long time ago the 8th was also voted as weakest/least favorite Mahler symphony.
> 
> I think this is a mistake. The 8th is not some choral extravaganza, it's not weak Wagner, it's not bloated and meandering - it's a highly symphonic work. The Veni Creator is a clear sonata form (and a fun sonata form at that - it's one of his most consistently energetic sonata first movements), and many episodes/key areas in that movement are recalled in the Faust. The melodic content throughout the entire symphony is highly unified, and it makes the appearances of the Veni Creator "motto" in the Faust natural and inevitable. The initial Faust music is derived from the Veni Creator, the "scherzo" episode in the Faust is in turn derived from the Faust opening. I particularly like the lyrical E major (E major also plays an exotic role in the Veni Creator) "love theme" in the Faust, you know, the one with the rising sixth and the harp accompaniment.
> 
> ...


I really agree here; I think the two main "problems" with the eighth is that it is sincere in an age of insincerity and cynicism and it has suffered from a lot of mediocre performances by people who just want to put on something "big". The more I have engaged with, the more I have come to realise it stands amongst Mahler's greatest achievements; Mahler himself thought it his greatest composition upon completing it.


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