# Callas the Greatest Operatic Actor... BUT there are other great talents. Name them.



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I will not quibble that Callas was likely the gold standard in operatic acting. Varnay, Rysenek and Jones were also riveting actresses. Who gets your vote for today... or any other time if moved?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Don't forget the men. Gobbi was phenomenal.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Stratas was a great actress even if she hadn't the greatest voice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Don't forget the men. Gobbi was phenomenal.


I don't know the men as well and that is where you guys can "edumacate" me as they say down South where I hail from.
I've been impressed with Greer Grimsley on stage. Kauffmann is supposed to be an impressive actor.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I don't know the men as well and that is where you guys can "edumacate" me as they say down South where I hail from.
> I've been impressed with Greer Grimsley on stage. Kauffmann is supposed to be an impressive actor.


Kauffmann is a fine actor as well as singer. Of course, Domingo was a great actor with tons of stage presence. And of course, Jon Vickers in the right role.


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## Adair (Feb 9, 2016)

My vote is for Sena Jurinac.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Tito Gobbi. Best Scarpia ever.

He could make your blood curdle!

Perfectly partnered with Maria Callas.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Actors in opera:
Shicoff is a stand-out.
Racette is superb.
Kaufmann is a winner.
Olivero is a consummate actress.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Here are my votes:

Salomea Kruszelnicka
Claudia Muzio
Meta Seinemeyer
Frida Leider
Lotte Lehmann
Marjorie Lawrence
Ljuba Welitsch
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
Eleanor Steber
Renata Scotto
Anna Moffo (in her prime)
Beverly Sills
Rosalind Plowright
Teresa Stratas 
Waltraud Meier
Patrizia Ciofi
Patricia Petibon (not so much of a voice)

Many of the "oldie" ladies left no video, but their *vocal* acting abilities are well-preserved by their recordings, and their stage presence is well-documented.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Here are my votes:
> 
> Salomea Kruszelnicka
> Claudia Muzio
> ...


Still photos tell us something too. I'm thinking of Lehmann's Sieglinde and Leider's Isolde: they simply _are_ those characters. Some photos of Leider can be seen on this remarkable Liebestod from 1933, for my money the greatest performance of it ever caught by a microphone:






Whatever happened to _portamento?_

Thank goodness we have huge numbers of Callas photos as partial compensation for the historical tragedy that we have only one substantial piece of her acting on film.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Still photos tell us something too. I'm thinking of Lehmann's Sieglinde and Leider's Isolde: they simply _are_ those characters. *Some photos of Leider can be seen on this remarkable Liebestod from 1933, for my money the greatest performance of it ever caught by a microphone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Woodduck, you may have had it already, but I really enjoy Frida Leider Society's cleaning and remastering for that 1933 Tristan:

http://www.frida-leider.de/en/shop.php​
Btw, speaking of an Italianate and feminine Isolde-the Irish princess (not Isolde-the matronly grandmother of Tristan, as many sopranos make her sound like), Giuseppina Cobelli, the reigning diva at La Scala in the late 1920s, may be a good candidate. Unfortunately, too little of her Isolde is left, and it is in even poorer sound than Leider's:






We may go back even further to Johanna Gadski, who was also known for her great acting:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm not sure if we're talking in this thread about vocal acting, physical acting, or both. If we're talking about vocal acting -- i.e. "interpretation" -- then a soprano who comes to mind is Cheryl Studer. A year ago I discovered her recorded Salome (Strauss), and as I listen to it while following along with the libretto I find her interpretation remarkably detailed -- even (dare I say it?) Callas-like.

Edited to add: As for physical acting, it's my experience that most opera singers are good actors provided they have proper direction. I do, however, think that Jonas Kaufmann is an _extraordinarily_ good actor.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I saw Waltraud M.'s Isolde on DVD and she blew me away... totally. She looked the part as well.In G. Jone's league.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellinilover;1021023
Edited to add: As for physical acting said:


> extraordinarily[/I] good actor.


Sutherland was not a great actress but became so in Lucia thanks to Zeffirelli.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sutherland was not a great actress but became so in Lucia thanks to Zeffirelli.


Yes, from what I've seen of the Met production from the early 1980's (I'm not sure who directed it), she did "become" Lucia. I tend to think that _most_ opera singers need a good director; if left to their own devices they'd probably tend to "stand and sing." It's understandable, of course, because opera singers are essentially musicians, not actors.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Here are my nominees.

Waltraud Meier, Brilliant Klytemnestra and anything else really! 

Joyce Didonato, Always puts her character over well, always believable

Mara Zampieri (really Liked her Tosca ROH '86 when she stood in for Natalia Troitskaya)

Catherine Malfitano just for pure effort. A real trooper!

Elena Obraztsova, probs not a popular choice but she scared the pants off me as Azucena, broke my heart as Santuzza.


Sir Thomas Allan, Yep local lad,

Gobbi oh yep...Scarpia... eek!

Ramon Vargas, such a cutie who would know!. Had me in tears in the Met's Boheme.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Badinerie said:


> Here are my nominees.
> 
> Waltraud Meier, Brilliant Klytemnestra and anything else really!
> 
> ...


Oh yes, Thomas Allen! Having seen him in the famous LA BOHEME video (Covent Garden), I honestly think he must be one of the greatest-ever operatic actors.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Woodduck, you may have had it already, but I really enjoy Frida Leider Society's cleaning and remastering for that 1933 Tristan:
> 
> http://www.frida-leider.de/en/shop.php​
> Btw, speaking of an Italianate and feminine Isolde-the Irish princess (not Isolde-the matronly grandmother of Tristan, as many sopranos make her sound like), Giuseppina Cobelli, the reigning diva at La Scala in the late 1920s, may be a good candidate. Unfortunately, too little of her Isolde is left, and it is in even poorer sound than Leider's:
> ...


Immense thanks for posting that 1930 La Scala performance with Cobelli! Absolutely shattering. De Sabata is transcendent in the pit, the emotional intensity of the whole cast is unbelievable. I've never cried at Kurwenal's death before! Singing and acting were more emotional in those days, _and_ they had the vocal technique to do it without hurting themselves. We'd never hear anything so fearless now. Maybe we're also hearing the determination of Italians to bring this "difficult" music to their countrymen in the most powerful way they can. You can hear the audience going mad at the end. I would too. I wonder if Callas sang Isolde under De Sabata?

I love Gadski. On recordings that old we're getting only an approximation of her vocal timbre, but by God she could sing, and she sang practically everything from Mozart to Wagner. Some of her recordings are my favorite versions of the excerpts in question.

I wasn't aware that more of Leider's Isolde existed. How much of it is on that Leider Society recording?


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

> Oh yes, Thomas Allen! Having seen him in the famous LA BOHEME video (Covent Garden), I honestly think he must be one of the greatest-ever operatic actors.


I saw him in 87 at Covent Garden As Marcello on Saturday afternoon and as Rodolfo for Domingo during the week. Cost me the whole months bonus and then some, but it was worth it!
A Magical week at the ROH!


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## Il Maestro (Oct 27, 2015)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Natalie Dessay yet.
Joyce DiDonato, Jonas Kauffmann, Simon Keenlyside and Peter Mattei are pretty good too.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Il Maestro said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Natalie Dessay yet.
> Joyce DiDonato, Jonas Kauffmann, Simon Keenlyside and Peter Mattei are pretty good too.


I saw Mattei in TANNHAUSER in HD last October and could not take my eyes off of him whenever he was onstage. An amazing presence.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I will add Hildegard Behrens & Maria Ewing to the list. Also from what bits I have seen, probably Danielle de Niesse.
On the male side, Herman Prey and Paolo Montarsolo


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I add; Julia Migenes , smashing Carmen , Malfitano, Fleming and Gheorghiou


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

I'd add my favorite tenors Di Stefano, Del Monaco and Corelli.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Adair said:


> My vote is for Sena Jurinac.


I think she's rather principal boy-like in the Schwarzkopf Der Rosenkavalier, though she sings divinely of course. Which reminds me Schwarzkopf was a pretty good actress.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Pugg said:


> I add; Julia Migenes , smashing Carmen , Malfitano, Fleming and Gheorghiou


I remember going to see the Migenes Carmen movie at the Ritzy cinema in Brixton when it came out she was very much at home on the big screen. I must pick up the dvd for old times sake!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Teresa Stratas has already been mentioned, and, though the voice was not the greatest you will hear, she was an amazing stage performer, her acting always entirely in tune with the music. She is still the best Susanna I've ever seen. Joyce DiDonato is a fantastic actress. So too was Dame Janet Baker. 

Thinking of some of the performances of my youth, I'd add Josephine Barstow, Valerie Masterson, Philip Langridge (superb as Grimes and De Vere), Boris Christoff (I caught one of his last King Philips) and Agnes Baltsa (one of the funniest Dorabellas I've ever seen, but also superb as Carmen, Eboli, Isabella and Adalgisa). 

Domingo got better and better as an actor as his career progressed. Seen as well as heard, his Otello was as riveting as any straight actor's Othello. 

I'd also nominate Simon Keenlyside, an amazing actor in a variety of different roles.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I am not as familiar with many singers, but Beverly Sills and Waltraud Meier come to mind as being right up there among the greatest operatic singers who could definitely also act.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Angela Gheroghiu was pretty good at first. I saw her as Nina in Massenet's Cherubin, then in the Traviata that propelled her to stardom. She was a very natural actress then and also when I saw her a few years later as Adina. Nowadays she seems prone to quite a bit of semaphore-like arm waving. All a bit mannered.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Angela Gheroghiu was pretty good at first. I saw her as Nina in Massenet's Cherubin, then in the Traviata that propelled her to stardom. She was a very natural actress then and also when I saw her a few years later as Adina. Nowadays she seems prone to quite a bit of semaphore-like arm waving. All a bit mannered.


She graduated from diva to Diva


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Valerie Masterson! gawd yes! I just seen her on a re-run of BBC show "The Good old Days." Beautiful singer and a beautiful woman!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Il Maestro said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Natalie Dessay yet.
> Joyce DiDonato, Jonas Kauffmann, Simon Keenlyside and Peter Mattei are pretty good too.


 Yes Dessay and DiDonato for sure. Kauffmann and Florez. Teresa Berganza too!

Never heard of Simon Keenlyside and Peter Mattei, so can't comment.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Let us not forget Diana Soviero.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Did someone mentioned Baltsa already?
Her Eboli portrayal in Salzburg is second to none, the Carmen is pretty well too :tiphat:


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## OldFashionedGirl (Jul 21, 2013)

Gobbi and Corelli!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Did someone mentioned Baltsa already?
> Her Eboli portrayal in Salzburg is second to none, the Carmen is pretty well too :tiphat:


Yes I did, but you probably didn't notice.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

Ferruccio Furlanetto - underrated, probably because he is a bass, and basses rarely get much love. Siepi and Pinza were about as big as basses could get, but they weren't "huge stars"


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

If I could only name 2 top actor-singers (one soprano and one tenor) my easy choices would be:
1. Soprano: Magda Olivero 



2. Tenor: Neil Shicoff


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I guess it begs the question, how many singers have acted outside of the opera house?

Callas was formidible in her sadly brief movie career.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> Ferruccio Furlanetto - underrated, probably because he is a bass, and basses rarely get much love. Siepi and Pinza were about as big as basses could get, but they weren't "huge stars"


Then there is Nicola Rossi-Lemeni. You really can see and hear what the king is feeling.






And then there is Boris Christoff who certainly does a pretty good death scene.

Part 1






Part 2


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> I guess it begs the question, how many singers have acted outside of the opera house?
> 
> Callas was formidible in her sadly brief movie career.


If only she had picked a better film. I don't really like Pasolini, but I have to admit that I have only seen Medea. The only good thing about the film is Callas. For me at least.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Diminuendo said:


> If only she had picked a better film. I don't really like Pasolini, but I have to admit that I have only seen Medea. The only good thing about the film is Callas. For me at least.


I LOVE Pasolini, but you need to see Il vangelo secondo Matteo before you write him off completely.

N.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I LOVE Pasolini, but you need to see Il vangelo secondo Matteo before you write him off completely.
> 
> N.


I second this, and saying" I don't like Pasolini" is beyond words.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Varnay and Rysenek were both formidable in the film version of Elektra. The close ups of Varnay when she reacts to her daughter Elektra are electrifying.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

For me it's

Tito Gobbi (you know he is)
Renata Scotto (easily best Elisabetta di Valois captured on video - may be problematic vocally but best acting ever. Damn, have you seen her Francesca da Rimini? Manon Lescaut? Adina? Angelica?)

then all the rest.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Badinerie said:


> I saw him in 87 at Covent Garden As Marcello on Saturday afternoon and as Rodolfo for Domingo during the week. Cost me the whole months bonus and then some, but it was worth it!
> A Magical week at the ROH!


Here are Allen and Neil Shicoff in LA BOHEME at Covent Garden in 1982. Go to the 10:00 mark and watch the acting from that point to the end of the opera. The physical interaction between Shicoff and Allen is honestly one of the loveliest (if saddest) things I've ever seen:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Here are Allen and Neil Shicoff in LA BOHEME at Covent Garden in 1982. Go to the 10:00 mark and watch the acting from that point to the end of the opera. The physical interaction between Shicoff and Allen is honestly one of the loveliest (if saddest) things I've ever seen:


I can agree with you but: the one that's touch me even more is the Stratas / Carreas production from the Met:tiphat:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Seeing L'ELISIR D'AMORE at the Met last weekend reminded me what an exceptional actor Alessandro Corbelli is. And not just as Dulcamara -- or instance, if you watch him in the "wine tasting aria" from LA CENERENTOLA he does the "drunk" aspect of it _very _ convincingly.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Olivero in a heartbeat
Soviero
Shicoff
Kaufmann
Rysanek
Racette
Gobbi
Martinelli
McCracken
Goerke
Stratas
Villazon
I wouldn't live with myself if I forgot to add Dessay.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Here are Allen and Neil Shicoff in LA BOHEME at Covent Garden in 1982. Go to the 10:00 mark and watch the acting from that point to the end of the opera. The physical interaction between Shicoff and Allen is honestly one of the loveliest (if saddest) things I've ever seen:


This is THE ONE!! Absolutely heartbreaking. I couldn't stop sobbing. Shicoff is a supreme actor with an absolutely gorgeous voice to match.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I will not quibble that Callas was likely the gold standard in operatic acting. Varnay, Rysenek and Jones were also riveting actresses. Who gets your vote for today... or any other time if moved?


For any other time... Adolphe Nourrit. Supposed to be a great actor as well as a singer; Rossini, Auber, Halevy and Meyerbeer created some of the most complex dramatic roles (Eleazar, Raoul, Masaniello, Arnold) expressly for him; and he wrote parts of the libretti (eg the Huguenots love duet, Rachel, quand du seigneur).

Isabella Colbran is also supposed to have been incredible. Stendhal raved about her portrayal of Elisabetta; he thought she played the part as if she'd ruled for twenty years. (I forget the exact quote.)


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Bellinilover said:


> Seeing L'ELISIR D'AMORE at the Met last weekend reminded me what an exceptional actor Alessandro Corbelli is. And not just as Dulcamara -- or instance, if you watch him in the "wine tasting aria" from LA CENERENTOLA he does the "drunk" aspect of it _very _ convincingly.


Corbelli's fantastic - a really gifted comedian. His physical comedy is hilarious, but he judges the performances so nicely that he makes the parts quite human.

I recently saw his Don Magnifico in the broadcast of the misguided Rome Cenerentola; he managed to make the old man quite sympathetic, in spite of all the directorial distractions. His Dandini in the US production with Bartoli is also brilliant. There's also a terrific performance of the Mississippi aria from Pietra del paragone, done when he was a mere lad, thirty odd years ago; you can find it on YouTube.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> This is THE ONE!! Absolutely heartbreaking. I couldn't stop sobbing. Shicoff is a supreme actor with an absolutely gorgeous voice to match.


Have you heard his Eleazar?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> Here are Allen and Neil Shicoff in LA BOHEME at Covent Garden in 1982. Go to the 10:00 mark and watch the acting from that point to the end of the opera. The physical interaction between Shicoff and Allen is honestly one of the loveliest (if saddest) things I've ever seen:


I only have heard him on XM Radio, but even just vocally Schicoff is very emotive. One of the best.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Azol said:


> For me it's
> 
> Tito Gobbi (you know he is)
> Renata Scotto (easily best Elisabetta di Valois captured on video - may be problematic vocally but best acting ever. Damn, have you seen her Francesca da Rimini? Manon Lescaut? Adina? Angelica?)
> ...


Except for early Scotto I have always felt she was sleeping with management because of her vocal inferiority, but if she was a good actress this could explain her attraction better.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> Have you heard his Eleazar?


Not only heard it, I have seen this superb interpretation at the Met several years ago.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Except for early Scotto I have always felt she was sleeping with management because of her vocal inferiority, but if she was a good actress this could explain her attraction better.


For me it's sort of the opposite. Renata Scotto was pretty much before my time, so I've only _seen_ her on video; I own several of her complete opera recordings. I feel that, if anything, she tended to _over_act (now there's a controversial opinion!), whereas I like her voice very much (except for her high register later on when it "shrieked").


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Except for early Scotto I have always felt she was sleeping with management because of her vocal inferiority, but if she was a good actress this could explain her attraction better.


Being a good actress is apparently a requirement when sleeping with management.

Or so I'm told. :devil:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

*


Bellinilover said:



For me it's sort of the opposite. Renata Scotto was pretty much before my time, so I've only seen her on video; I own several of her complete opera recordings. I feel that, if anything, she tended to overact (now there's a controversial opinion!), whereas I like her voice very much (except for her high register later on when it "shrieked").

Click to expand...

*Yeah, Scotto was 'way' before my time too (I just had to throw that _non sequitur _in), but I don't think that she tended to overact but rather that other singers are comparatively 'un'-dramatic, or even boring- to me at any rate.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Except for early Scotto I have always felt she was sleeping with management because of her vocal inferiority, but if she was a good actress this could explain her attraction better.


It may have been an inferior instrument (though I actually liked its basic timbre) but she was a superior musician, and I cherish many of her performances. I love her Desdemona, both on the Levine recording and in the DVD with Vickers from the Met, and her Suor Angelica is a highly intelligent creation; no sweet, innocent, young thing, but a highly strung woman, slightly crazed by the cloistered existence she finds herself in, having had her baby taken from her. The Maazel recording owes more than a little to Powell and Pressburger's _Black Narcissus_, and I, for one, find it more psychologically compelling than the sugary, sentimental piece of cod religiosity it usually is.

Paradoxically, there are occasions where I find her stage acting somewhat mannered. It is her _singing_ that most impresses me.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> It may have been an inferior instrument (though I actually liked its basic timbre) but she was a superior musician, and I cherish many of her performances. I love her Desdemona, both on the Levine recording and in the DVD with Vickers from the Met, and her Suor Angelica is a highly intelligent creation; no sweet, innocent, young thing, but a highly strung woman, slightly crazed by the cloistered existence she finds herself in, having had her baby taken from her. *The Maazel recording owes more than a little to Powell and Pressburger's Black Narcissus, and I, for one, find it more psychologically compelling than the sugary, sentimental piece of cod religiosity it usually is.*
> 
> Paradoxically, there are occasions where I find her stage acting somewhat mannered. It is her _singing_ that most impresses me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Belowpar said:


> Being a good actress is apparently a requirement when sleeping with management.
> 
> Or so I'm told. :devil:


Who says an opera forum can't be hilarious.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Who says an opera forum can't be hilarious.


It is, believe me, found that out my first time around


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

Callas is wonderful, but I almost feel like her definitive status is a bit ridiculous. For one, we put her on some unattainable marble pedestal. It almost suggests, "sing your heart out all you want, but you'll never touch Callas". There's something quite off-putting about holding someone in that regard. I think it does little for the legacy of that great performer. Maybe I'm just naturally one to go against the grain, but this is a different case. I do think Callas is great, and certainly is deserving of praise, but she's not the "greatest". That's subjective and I hate that in music. It's like as a guitarist, when someone brings up Hendrix, it almost kills my enjoyment of his work.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> Callas is wonderful, but I almost feel like her definitive status is a bit ridiculous. For one, we put her on some unattainable marble pedestal. It almost suggests, "sing your heart out all you want, but you'll never touch Callas". There's something quite off-putting about holding someone in that regard. I think it does little for the legacy of that great performer. Maybe I'm just naturally one to go against the grain, but this is a different case. I do think Callas is great, and certainly is deserving of praise, but she's not the "greatest". That's subjective and I hate that in music. It's like as a guitarist, when someone brings up Hendrix, it almost kills my enjoyment of his work.


There are cases where a judgment of "greatest" is a fallacious attribution based on taste, cases where it's a possible reality but impossible to determine, cases where it's applied too globally and finer distinctions among different attributes are needed, and cases where it's unavoidable to a perceptive and honest observer.

The case of Callas warrants the last two of those. Her reputation for greatness is based on many factors; acting is but one, and that one is the least accessible to judgment now. However, no musically intelligent person can mistake the extraordinary refinement of her musical instincts - her understanding of the language of music and her ability to illuminate the notes on the page and make them meaningful. Similarly, it's impossible for deny the unfailing thoughtfulness and dramatic power of her vocal interpretations of the roles she sang; hers are not the only interpretations possible, nor need they be everyone's preferred interpretations, but none reveal a greater depth of insight or a greater ability to translate thought and feeling into limitlessly varied shades of vocal expression. In a number of roles she is widely regarded as unsurpassed or unequaled as a purely vocal actress, and the audible justification for this reputation is there for those who can grasp it.

If we add to Callas's musical intelligence the power of her personal charisma and her power as a stage actress (the latter of which we can now view in only a few samples), we have a phenomenon rarely equaled in opera. Whether Callas was "the greatest" operatic actor is something we really can't say definitively, and there isn't much point in debating it. What we _can_ do is watch her in _Tosca_ at Covent Garden in 1964 and compare anyone else filmed in the role. I can't speak for others, but after watching that I'm in no mood for iconoclasm, and I actually come away feeling that Puccini's "shabby little shocker," which I would ordinarily not cross the street to hear, is great art.


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## pianoville (Jul 19, 2018)

Donald McIntyre for his amazing Wotan in the iconic Chéreau production. His acting feels so real that I wouldn't be surprised if Jones was his daughter!

Meier is also a great one. The most seductive Kundry I've ever seen by far.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Among singers I've seen on film, Teresa Stratas and Gwyneth Jones have impressed me greatly with their acting.


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

Raina Kabaivanska.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> and the audible justification for this reputation is there for those who can grasp it.


Mmm. Just the tiniest bit patronising Woodduck. Not like you.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

If we judge acting skill by success starring in hollywood mainstream films (in addition to opera roles) then we must admire

*Rise Stevens

*
















And in early silent films the amazing *Geraldine Farrar*........










"Mr DeMille, I am ready for my close-up" ha ha.....


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> Mmm. Just the tiniest bit patronising Woodduck. Not like you.


Which part of my statement is incorrect?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Which part of my statement is incorrect?


Not incorrect, merely patronising. Basically I resent the inference that if I can't grasp Callas's "genius" by listening to her then I lack something. I don't doubt her abilities but the fact that I don't see her as being more than an accomplished singing actress in no wise means that I can't "grasp it."

Perhaps I'm overreacting but your turn of phrase just wrankled with me. With old age comes serenity and in my case a short fuse!:lol:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> I don't doubt her abilities but the fact that I don't see her as being more than an accomplished singing actress in no wise means that I can't "grasp it."


I'm reluctant to add my tuppence worth, as it will no doubt open me up to further attacks from some people on this site.

However I would just like to quote what the "great" conductor, Victor De Sabata once said to Walter Legge,



> If the public could understand, as we do, how deeply and utterly musical Callas is, they would be stunned


He also said, to Callas herself, about her timing and precision, when she couldn't even see him,



> Maria, you are a monster; you are not an artist nor a woman nor a human being, but a monster.


What makes her stand out was that she was a total musician, not merely "an accomplished singing actress".

Once in a lifetime, or maybe even less, an artist will appear who has something special, something that sets them apart from others in their field, whatever that field might be. Personally I think it's rather sad, when people try to normalise their gifts, and seek to make them less special than they were or are.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> Not incorrect, merely patronising. Basically I resent the inference that if I can't grasp Callas's "genius" by listening to her then I lack something. I don't doubt her abilities but the fact that I don't see her as being more than an accomplished singing actress in no wise means that I can't "grasp it."
> 
> Perhaps I'm overreacting but your turn of phrase just wrankled with me. With old age comes serenity and in my case a short fuse!:lol:


Callas was extraordinary in ways described many times by many people. it's clear that not everyone can understand the nature of what she did. Those who can, can. Those who can't, can't.

The only thing lacking in one who can't perceive something is the ability to perceive it. I don't consider it patronizing to state a tautology.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Most, if not all artists, are prone to hyperbole and Sabata, I imagine would be no exception to this generalisation. I'm not saying he was wrong but.......

I have siblings who are in the arts. One is a successful painter and sculptor and the other is a successful actor. Both would admit that they too are fond of giving it large when referring to the abilities and artistic talent of someone they admire.

I am not going to argue the toss about Callas's not inconsiderable talents and achievements. Her place in the pantheon is secure and my comment, which was not about what was said but rather the manner in which it was said, was not intended as a slur on Ms Callas, and its impact on her legions of fans should be of no consequence. Mea culpa, I forgot how sensitive they can be. 

Sadly, while I have great admiration for her, the voice does not sit well with me and all the passion and interpretative qualities in the world will not alter that fact.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Has Chaliapin been mentioned? I obviously never saw him on stage, but his reputation as an actor is legendary.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> *Most, if not all artists, are prone to hyperbole and Sabata, I imagine would be no exception to this generalisation.* I'm not saying he was wrong but.......
> 
> I have siblings who are in the arts. One is a successful painter and sculptor and the other is a successful actor. Both would admit that they too are fond of giving it large when referring to the abilities and artistic talent of someone they admire.
> 
> ...


Now THAT is truly patronizing.

I can assure you that your inability to get past the sound of Callas's voice to a deep appreciation of her art is perfectly normal and I'm not in the least sensitive about it. Our perception of any artist's work is inevitably affected by our subjective tastes. Sometimes, when people who do fully appreciate and enjoy the work of an artist whom we have some kind of block against, it's best to take their word for the fact that there's more to the artist than we can grasp. This is especially true when the artist has been as highly acclaimed as Callas has by many of the most distinguished people in music for over half a century. Implying that all these people are "prone to exaggeration" and overly "sensitive" is more than a little insulting, don't you think?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> Has Chaliapin been mentioned? I obviously never saw him on stage, but his reputation as an actor is legendary.


Michael Scott, author of Volumes I and II of _The Record of Singing_, _The Great Caruso_ and _Maria Meneghini Callas_ names Chaliapin as one of the three greatest singers of the twentieth century, the others being Caruso and Callas.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

some which come to mind immediately
- *Maria Ewing!*
- Samuel Ramey
- Diana Damrau
- Peter Mattei
- Elena Obraztsova
- Jennifer Larmore 
- Franco Corelli
- Shirley Verrett 
- Teresa Bergenza 
- Mary Costa

hit-and-miss
- Mario del Monaco: great when he's not throwing a tantrum on stage
- Anna Netrebko: can't stand most of her singing, but she does have stage presence. in the right role she can be quite convincing
- Natalie Dessay: great at playing insane women lol
- Joyce Didonato: great at moderately dramatic acting, but wouldn't convince me in darker repertoire


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Some who really impressed me with acting as well as singing:

- Artur Ruciński (especially as Francesco, but also Onegin)
- Ferruccio Furlanetto (someone please give his King Philip a hug)
- René Pape (same, but also Boris)
- Elina Garanca 
- Scott Hendricks
- Gerald Finley (just now, as Iago)
- Eric Halfvarson (probably the creepiest Claggart, definitely the creepiest Inquisitor)
- Christian Franz (one of the few Siegfrieds I don't want to yeet into a volcano, also excellent Loge and Parsifal)
- Anita Rachvelishvili (holy ****, her Azucena? give her an Oscar)
- Christopher Maltman as Don G
- Ludovic Tézier (especially in Forza and Rigoletto)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> - Joyce Didonato: great at moderately dramatic acting, but wouldn't convince me in darker repertoire


She was tremendous as a gradually disintigrating Dejanira in Luc Bondy's *Hercules*, the path from suspicion to crazed jealousy brilliantly conveyed both in movement and voice. I'd say she was a convincing actress.


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

Great acting!


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Sieglinde said:


> Some who really impressed me with acting as well as singing:
> 
> - Artur Ruciński (especially as Francesco, but also Onegin)
> - Ferruccio Furlanetto (someone please give his King Philip a hug)
> ...


Yes, Rachvelishvili as Amneris, boy the other singers were, well, they ranged from marginal (Her Nebs) to horrible (Antonenko) except for Quinn Kelsey in what is a cameo role compared to most Verdi baritone parts.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

^ Ah, you said Azucena, yay, see I have something to look forward to!

George


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Am I really the first to mention Ermonela Jaho? As well as an emotive voice she has very affecting body language... and seems to be the singer most likely to make the audience cry.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Yeah  Watched the 2017 ROH Trovatore (chose it over the 2016 because Bilyy>>>Lucic and I'm pretty much just here for Conte di Luna at this point, after dozens of productions) and she was amazing.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Now THAT is truly patronizing.
> 
> I can assure you that your inability to get past the sound of Callas's voice to a deep appreciation of her art is perfectly normal and I'm not in the least sensitive about it. Our perception of any artist's work is inevitably affected by our subjective tastes. Sometimes, when people who do fully appreciate and enjoy the work of an artist whom we have some kind of block against, it's best to take their word for the fact that there's more to the artist than we can grasp. This is especially true when the artist has been as highly acclaimed as Callas has by many of the most distinguished people in music for over half a century. Implying that all these people are "prone to exaggeration" and overly "sensitive" is more than a little insulting, don't you think?


What exactly do you mean by my "inability". Taste is not an ability that can can be mastered by any individual, my taste in singing doesn't make me any less appreciative of singing than those with a so-called "superior" taste when it comes to someone like Maria Callas. And the day I take anyone's word for something will be a first, I can assure you. This "we all know better than you, so just take our word for it" attitude is deeply offensive to me and I do find it both condescending and patronising and if I could find my thesaurus I'd be adding a few more words here.

Btw I did not imply that all these people are prone to exaggeration. I actually said that those in the arts tend to be prone to exaggeration. Yes, a sweeping generalisation, I admit but I have spent a lot of time in the company of those involved in all the arts and their artistic nature makes some of them, not all, a bit ott when they get enthused.

In my original post I was not having a pop at Maria Callas. I was merely surprised at the phraseology you used at the end of your post as it is not your usual way of posting. You are not usually judgemental and neither are you given to sweeping statements. In this I was clearly wrong!

Other than that, all of you have a cool Yule and a Callas-tastic new year.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> What exactly do you mean by my "inability". Taste is not an ability that can can be mastered by any individual, my taste in singing doesn't make me any less appreciative of singing than those with a so-called "superior" taste when it comes to someone like Maria Callas. And the day I take anyone's word for something will be a first, I can assure you. This "we all know better than you, so just take our word for it" attitude is deeply offensive to me and I do find it both condescending and patronising and if I could find my thesaurus I'd be adding a few more words here.
> 
> Btw I did not imply that all these people are prone to exaggeration. I actually said that those in the arts tend to be prone to exaggeration. Yes, a sweeping generalisation, I admit but I have spent a lot of time in the company of those involved in all the arts and their artistic nature makes some of them, not all, a bit ott when they get enthused.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that there is a certain amount of misunderstanding going on here, and that neither you nor Woodduck wanted to cause any offence.

However, as a professional performer, and someone who has been in the business for over forty years now, I do rather resent this attitude that all we theatrical types are prone to exaggeration and going a bit over the top, and that therefore our opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt. I should just say that, if it does seem to non performers that we are going a bit over the top, it's because we know just how difficult it all is!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I'm sure that there is a certain amount of misunderstanding going on here, and that neither you nor Woodduck wanted to cause any offence.
> 
> However, as a professional performer, and someone who has been in the business for over forty years now, I do rather resent this attitude that all we theatrical types are prone to exaggeration and going a bit over the top, and that therefore our opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt. I should just say that, if it does seem to non performers that we are going a bit over the top, it's because we know just how difficult it all is!


When people are determined to be offended it's very difficult to talk them out of it. All we can do is try to clarify our meaning.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I'm sure that there is a certain amount of misunderstanding going on here, and that neither you nor Woodduck wanted to cause any offence.
> 
> However, as a professional performer, and someone who has been in the business for over forty years now, I do rather resent this attitude that all we theatrical types are prone to exaggeration and going a bit over the top, and that therefore our opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt. I should just say that, if it does seem to non performers that we are going a bit over the top, it's because we know just how difficult it all is!


I did say some, not all. And I do realise that artists, being creative types, are quite rightly given to emphasising the difficulties they have in letting the layman understand the quixotic nature of their art. My siblings have pointed this out to me with some force over the past forty years. I once had the temerity to suggest that my sister wasn't as good as I had seen her in a particular part and her response was less than complimentary. I now keep those opinions to myself.:lol:

I had no intention of giving offence to anyone and in future if I see something that irritates me personally I shall keep it to myself.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Michael Scott, author of Volumes I and II of _The Record of Singing_, _The Great Caruso_ and _Maria Meneghini Callas_ names Chaliapin as one of the three greatest singers of the twentieth century, the others being Caruso and Callas.


We could add Melchior, Flagstad and one or two others to this illustrious triumvirate


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> We could add Melchior, Flagstad and *one* or two others to this illustrious triumvirate


A triumvirate is 3. It can only be one more


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> A triumvirate is 3. It can only be one more


If we add my two, or more if you so choose, to Callas,Caruso and Chaliapin (this was the illustrious triumvirate I was referring to ) then yes, we have more than a triumvirate. I don't know what you call five, six or even seven!! Quintumverate? Sextumverate? Septumverate? I am now Dr. Johnson increasing the English language to its probable detriment.:lol:


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> If we add my two, or more if you so choose, to Callas,Caruso and Chaliapin (this was the illustrious triumvirate I was referring to ) then yes, we have more than a triumvirate. I don't know what you call five, six or even seven!! Quintumverate? Sextumverate? Septumverate? I am now Dr. Johnson increasing the English language to its probable detriment.:lol:


5 = quintuplets, 6 = sextuplets, 7 = septuplets, 8 = octuplets, 9 =Catholics


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Frank Freaking Sinatra said:


> 5 = quintuplets, 6 = sextuplets, 7 = septuplets, 8 = octuplets, 9 =Catholics


People with catholic tastes in music use the rhythm method.


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> People with catholic tastes in music use the rhythm method.


Bravo! Well said, sir!, well said! - :lol:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> People with catholic tastes in music use the rhythm method.


I never knew Gershwin was Catholic!


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