# Kyrie and Gloria in excelsis Deo Musical Structures



## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Hello all. I'm self-taught in music theory and have recently decided to compose a Kyrie and Gloria in Excelsis Deo movement from a mass (just for fun). However, I'm having a hard time finding anything online in regards to the actual musical structure of the movements. I've found from a Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(music)#II._Gloria) that the Kyrie is in ternary form. Now I know what ternary form is, but what I can't seem to grasp is why they don't just describe it as being in ABA form (with A being the Kyrie eleison, and B being the Christine eleison). Why do they describe it as being in a form such as "aaa bbb aaa'," or even "aaa bbb ccc'?" Why are the letters repeated, and furthermore, how does that last structure even fit into ternary form? And as far the Gloria in excelsis deo goes, I can't find anything on that movement's structure. It sounds as if Vivaldi's RV 589 is also in Ternary form, with the middle section being in the relative minor, but I could be wrong. 
Anyways, if anyone could assist me here, ESPECIALLY with videos of movements and how they can be broken down structure-wise, I would greatly appreciate it. Am I over-analyzing thimgs? ...not analyzing them enough? ...what? 
Any help is good help. Thanks! :tiphat:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

How you set the mass musically depends on how you want to divide up the text. There are natural divisions that suggest musical structure. "Kyrie eleison - Christe eleison - Kyrie eleison" falls naturally into a ternary form. The Gloria is much longer:

Gloria in excelsis Deo.
Et in terra pax
hominibus bonæ voluntatis.

Laudamus te; benedicimus te;
adoramus te; glorificamus te.
Gratias agimus tibi
propter magnam gloriam tuam.

Domine Deus, Rex coelestis,
Deus Pater omnipotens.
Domine Fili unigenite Jesu Christe.
Domine Deus, Agnus Dei,
Filius Patris.

Qui tollis peccata mundi,
miserere nobis.
Qui tollis peccata mundi,
suscipe deprecationem nostram.
Qui sedes ad dextram Patris,
O miserere nobis.

Quoniam tu solus Sanctus,
tu solus Dominus,
tu solus Altissimus, Jesu Christe.
Cum Sancto Spiritu
in gloria Dei Patris.

Amen.


Do you want to set all of that? There are many possible ways of doing it. Don't worry about terminology. Just listen to how different composers structure it and use them as models.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

The Kyrie is described as "aaa bbb aaa'," or "aaa bbb ccc' because each phrase is repeated three times.


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Do you want to set all of that? There are many possible ways of doing it. Don't worry about terminology. Just listen to how different composers structure it and use them as models.


First off, thank you greatly for the response!! It is much appreciated and helpful! And no I'm not writing a whole mass!! Haha For the Gloria, I'm not looking to write a whole Gloria movement, just the Gloria in excelsis Deo section. Like the Vivaldi example I gave. Is Ternary form a common structure for it? Those seem to be relatively short, so I would think that would make sense to use that form, but musical structure is really important to me so I want to be as accurate as I can. Either way, thanks again for the jelp so far. Look forward to hearing any more advice.


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