# Brendel vs. Barenboim



## Sonata

I apologize for a touch of redundancy....but just want to do a head to head battle in the Brendel Beethoven sonata cycle versus Barenboim. I know Barenboim had more than one recording (maybe Brendel too, I'm not sure). But pick the best of the best between just these two. (And there's WAY too many B's in this post)


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## StlukesguildOhio

Barenboim as a pianist... and often as a conductor... has the ability to bore the living hell out of me. I picked up a Barenboim cycle of the complete Beethoven piano concertos... and ended up giving it away to a friend not quite as picky as I am with regard to classical music.


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## Guest

So, SLGO, would you pick the Brendel?


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## joen_cph

The earlier Barenboim was mostly incredibly slow in the Beethoven concerti with Klemperer (EMI); the later concerto set is most likely different, since he seems to have boosted a romantically committed approach in the later decades and his playing style is generally faster. 

Similarly, the early EMI sonata set is very different from the most recent sonata recordings.

Brendel has 3 sets; the early Vox sonatas are often slender and lack contrasts. The middle set of the sonatas and the concertos with Haitink (philips) are often considered the best.

Overall, I´d personally go for the late Barenboim set.


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## Turangalîla

Late Barenboim set is the best!


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## moody

I would not waste my money on either,it is possible to do much,much better.
In any case why do you want to do head to head battle--and why drag us into it?
Which have you bought and why?


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## Sonata

"Drag you into it" 

Wow, that's kind of hostile wording, especially given that other people have done head-to-head polls. Perhaps you're sick of them...I understand that, but then just ignore it. 

I had a VERY specific reasoning for doing a head-to-head battle. Because I had decided on purchasing two sets of the sonatas and I had already decided on Gilels. Barenboim and Brendel were the other two finalists for ME. Hence the head to head. And yes, I know I should sample them for myself, and I have and will. But I have received good recommendations from my friends here at TalkClassical before, so I thought I'd get some input. 

I have not bought either of them yet. I am currently saving up some money to buy a piano and pay some medical bills, but hope to buy a set or two in the springtime.


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## Guest

moody said:


> I would not waste my money on either,it is possible to do much,much better.


Waste? That's rather dismissive, isn't it? So, what would you waste _your _money on then?


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## Ukko

MacLeod said:


> Waste? That's rather dismissive, isn't it? So, what would you waste _your _money on then?


Considering the quality of the performances available by the masters, Both subject pianists make merely competent contributions. I can think of no reason to settle for either of them. Well, wait... there is, I suppose, some value in experiencing mediocrity - it improves one's judgement of quality.

[So you see, it is possible to raise _moody_'s 'dismissive'. It just requires a few more words.]


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## moody

MacLeod said:


> Waste? That's rather dismissive, isn't it? So, what would you waste _your _money on then?


-I have many versions of all the main Beethoven sonatas and that is the right thing to do,but I realise that some people do not have the inclination or the money to do this. It has taken me years and years to build my collection and I think i must know every note of every sonata.but of one thing I am convinced and that is buying boxed sets of one performer is the wrong way to go.
For instance Horowitz made a version of the "Appassionata" in the early 60's which is quite the most extraordinary version I have heard,but normally i would not turn to him for Beethoven sonatas.
The great and I do mean great performers that I enjoy include Annie fischer,Denis Matthews,Artur Schnabel,Yes Nat,Robert Casadesus,Hans Richter-Haaser,Wilhelm Backhaus,Rudolf Serkin,Charles Rosen,Elly Ney and Wilhelm Kempf.
All of these are superior to Brendel and Barenboim.


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## moody

Sonata said:


> "Drag you into it"
> 
> Wow, that's kind of hostile wording, especially given that other people have done head-to-head polls. Perhaps you're sick of them...I understand that, but then just ignore it.
> 
> I had a VERY specific reasoning for doing a head-to-head battle. Because I had decided on purchasing two sets of the sonatas and I had already decided on Gilels. Barenboim and Brendel were the other two finalists for ME. Hence the head to head. And yes, I know I should sample them for myself, and I have and will. But I have received good recommendations from my friends here at TalkClassical before, so I thought I'd get some input.
> 
> I have not bought either of them yet. I am currently saving up some money to buy a piano and pay some medical bills, but hope to buy a set or two in the springtime.


I agree it was the wrong choice of words.


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## Vaneyes

Sonata said:


> I apologize for a touch of redundancy....but just want to do a head to head battle in the Brendel Beethoven sonata cycle versus Barenboim. I know Barenboim had more than one recording (maybe Brendel too, I'm not sure). But pick the best of the best between just these two. (And there's WAY too many B's in this post)


Brendel's digital set (1990's). A fitting testimony from this legend. Entertaining, educational, in so good piano sound.

View attachment 9161


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## starthrower

Listening to Rudolph Serkin's 1952 recording of the Waldstein. Sound is rather bright and tinny, but the playing is phenomenal!


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> View attachment 9161


Can't take him seriously - he reminds me of Roy Hudd


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## PetrB

The poll results so far show me I am not alone in opinion -- I don't even think there is anything near 'a contest' between the two, Brendel being one for the category of 'top tier of all time' 

Barenboim - to me, always a rather shapeless and characterless pianist - nothing I've heard has ever held me, let alone commanded my attention and held me rapt. Feel rather the same about his conducting and very similar results there.


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## thesubtlebody

Sonata, you might already know about this, but have you tried the Spotify service? I have only flirted with it on its advertising-driven (bleck) "free" option, but I wonder if you could try out many sonatas by many different hands that way. I don't yet Barenboim's sonatas at all, but I remember liking Brendel's earliest Beethoven cycle on Vox (?) more than most of the much later analogue/digital recordings that he did----these earliest recordings having been recently reissued by Brilliant in a few different forms: in the most recent enormous Beethoven "complete" edition; also in that mammoth Brendel VOX/TURNABOUT/VANGUARD box; and more manageably in this box:
http://www.amazon.com/BEETHOVEN-Bri...=1350907068&sr=8-3&keywords=brendel+brilliant
There seem to be many seasoned listeners who like this early cycle (albeit in inferior sound) quite a bit more than his later traversals. FYI!

Elsewhere I offered recommendations to you for cycles by Gulda, Arrau, and Backhaus; but those are just names that have excited me recently. It's hard to imagine you'd not enjoy the hell out of Brendel's approach; I intend to return to him eventually. I just recently listened to this late recording of the DIABELLI VARIATIONS, allegedly Brendel's personal favorite recording of that mountain (iirc), and I was knocked out:


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## realdealblues

I have most every Beethoven Sonata cycle released including all 3 sets from Brendel as well as 3 (EMI, DG & Decca Live) sets from Barenboim.

If I were forced to sit down and only listen to one of those sets I would pick the 2nd Brendel cycle recorded in the 70's.

It's tough to describe and I'm not even sure I'm going to use the right words here, but I find Brendel's first recordings on Vox not "mature" enough. He gives me nothing special to separate him from the pack. His final recording on Philips he was a little too past his prime. They became "too thought out" and I don't feel he was playing near as well as he had a decade before.

Barenboim is a different beast. He picks odd rhythms and timings to me that lessen the impact of the works. There is no "fire" in them. Not that Brendel is a ball of fire himself, but at least his 2nd set is "thought out" enough to keep it interesting and his technical playing ability was at it's peak. 

It has taken me some time and many repeated listenings to really appreciate Brendel's 2nd Cycle. Gilels is still the King for me when it comes to Beethoven Sontas, with Ashkenazy's cycle right behind. But I have found a fondness for Brendel's cycle in my collection over the last few years and it does see some play which is more than I can say for the Barenboim cycles.


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## Ukko

thesubtlebody said:


> I am beginning to get the feeling that "moody" is a terminal crank. He *radiates* "wisdom" in all its self-evidence.


That _moody_'s 'conversational style' disturbs you doesn't change the wisdom of his opinions.


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## Sonata

moody said:


> I agree it was the wrong choice of words.


Fair enough. And thanks for your thoughts on your preferred performers. I may have to buy a few of Annie Fischer's recordings, I've heard a lot of good elsewhere about her interpretations. Which ones are your favorites by her?


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## Ukko

Sonata said:


> Fair enough. And thanks for your thoughts on your preferred performers. I may have to buy a few of Annie Fischer's recordings, I've heard a lot of good elsewhere about her interpretations. Which ones are your favorites by her?


(Getting my 2¢ in before _moody_'s 2 pence) For me, Annie's dominant characteristic is intense focus. That works in some sonatas... .


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## Ravndal

Oh man. None of them for me! prefer Gould or kovacevich

edit: and gilels


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> (Getting my 2¢ in before _moody_'s 2 pence) For me, Annie's dominant characteristic is intense focus. That works in some sonatas... .


You have hit the nail on the head as to why boxed sets are not such a good idea--certain works suit certain performers.
As a matter of interest when I last attended an Annie Fischer concert I was fascinated to see the number of pianists there.


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## moody

Sonata said:


> Fair enough. And thanks for your thoughts on your preferred performers. I may have to buy a few of Annie Fischer's recordings, I've heard a lot of good elsewhere about her interpretations. Which ones are your favorites by her?


Hungaraton has many recordings listed,are they available to you in the USA? I have a feeling they may be live recordings ,it is worth looking into.


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## Sonata

Ravndal said:


> Oh man. None of them for me! prefer Gould or kovacevich
> 
> edit: and gilels


Yep, I'll be getting the Gilels set for sure


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## Sonata

moody said:


> Hungaraton has many recordings listed,are they available to you in the USA? I have a feeling they may be live recordings ,it is worth looking into.


Never heard of them moody, I'll have to check into it


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## Ukko

Sonata said:


> Never heard of them moody, I'll have to check into it


Looks like most of those are breakouts from the complete set, and not cheap.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Looks like most of those are breakouts from the complete set, and not cheap.


Cheapness is not the criterion to work on really.I think they are "live" and of course Madame Fischer was Hungarian.
There is also a BBC legends disc of 7,16 and 14 "Moonlight",that's live as well.
I wonder where the EMI recordings are?
The Hungaratons are £14 and the BBC Legends £11.


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