# Best recording/s of the Beethoven String Quartets.



## damianjb1

I've just started appreciating chamber music and I want to buy recording/s of the Beethoven String Quartets. If possible, I'd like some reasonably recent recordings in fabulous sound. 
Any suggestions?


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## chill782002

I think the recordings by the Takacs Quartet should meet your requirements.


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## gardibolt

The older set by Tokyo String Quartet is quite cheaply had and has quite good sound and excellent performances to boot.


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## Guest

The last recording is not automatically a better choice.My preference is the Alban Berg quartet and I am not so much in favor for the Takacs recordings.Choosing is a personal matter,you have to search for a really bad one.Juiliard is also very fine and not to forget the quartetto Italiano.All have their own approach and I would advise you to take your time in order to find out what is the (your) best choice.
The best recording does not exist,it is a personal matter a ,matter of taste,what I like you may dislike,so find out for yourself it is something very worthwhile.


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## Botschaft

Kodály Quartet is great.


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## KenOC

The Takacs are IMO the set to have if you have only one. Now available (finally) as a reasonably priced set.

Best value: Probably the Tokyo on RCA, it's pretty darned good.

Best amazing superbargain: The Colorado Quartet for 99 cents. No kidding, these are fine performances and very well-recorded.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Co...&qid=1503350773&sr=1-1-mp3-albums-bar-strip-0


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## hpowders

You know, this topic has been talked to death already.

All one has to do is a search and you would have found a gazillion recommendations.

As has been stated already here and many other places on TC, the older Tokyo set on RCA is incredible in its consistent excellence throughout the set. A great string quartet in its prime.


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## classfolkphile

I concur with the many others that the Tokyo (RCA) set is excellently played and recorded, and an unbelievable bargain at around $15 on Amazon. I must have paid around $80 for it years ago.

I also have the Italiano, Berg, Guarneri, and Emerson sets, all of which I like to varying degrees. 

My current favorite, however, with superb playing and the best sound I've heard is the Cypress Quartet.


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## Botschaft

Improbus said:


> Kodály Quartet is great.


But seriously, you need to be listening to these: they blow the rest out of the water.


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## chill782002

It is indeed a matter of personal taste. My favourite is the live Budapest Quartet recordings at the Library of Congress made between 1940 and 1962. However, this set may not meet your requirements as regards sound quality.


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## realdealblues

Everyone has their favorites and you will probably see the same dozen or so recommendations. Much of it depends on how much you want to spend and how much comparative listening you want to do. 

I have over a dozen sets and I personally like the sets from Alban Berg Quartett and Quartteto Italiano the best.


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## Mandryka

damianjb1 said:


> in fabulous sound.


Tokyo (SACD Harmonia Mundi); Smetana (Denon); Alexander (Foghorn); Leipzig (MDT)

I only really know the late quartets and interpretively I enjoy all of these very much in 127-135, apart from Leipzig. But nothing follows about what you'll like, or the earlier quartets!

A good single disc from the point of view of sound and I'd say from the point of view of interpretation is The Hagen Quartet on Myrios, with a couple of early quartets and op 135


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## classfolkphile

Improbus said:


> But seriously, you need to be listening to these: they blow the rest out of the water.


But seriously, many people disagree. Humdrum and workmanlike are some of the descriptors used. And the screechy first violin and mediocre sound don't help.


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## Botschaft

classfolkphile said:


> But seriously, many people disagree. Humdrum and workmanlike are some of the descriptors used. And the screechy first violin and mediocre sound don't help.


People are bound to disagree, especially when things are done better than usual. To me it sounds measured, smooth and well-articulated, but others may value other things.


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## fluteman

chill782002 said:


> It is indeed a matter of personal taste. My favourite is the live Budapest Quartet recordings at the Library of Congress made between 1940 and 1962. However, this set may not meet your requirements as regards sound quality.


No argument from me, but of particular note is the complete cycle the Budapest Quartet recorded at the Library of Congress in 1951 and 52. The second violinist in these recordings is Jac Gorodetzky and not Alexander Schneider. Gorodetzky was a great violinist but was emotionally unstable and ultimately committed suicide in 1955. Alexander Schneider then returned to the quartet. A few months after this cycle was completed, first violinist Josef Roisman fell and badly broke his arm. He had difficulty recovering and probably never fully returned to peak form.
This is the best set for me. The earlier Budapest recordings are outstanding but the sound quality is not. (Sound quality of the 1951-52 set is so-so but much better than the earlier material.) Their later stereo Beethoven cycle is very good but in my opinion features the quartet slightly past its prime.


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## Triplets

hpowders said:


> You know, this topic has been talked to death already.
> 
> All one has to do is a search and you would have found a gazillion recommendations.
> 
> As has been stated already here and many other places on TC, the older Tokyo set on RCA is incredible in its consistent excellence throughout the set. A great string quartet in its prime.


Agree completely. I keep recommending aset that no one else has, namely the Hungarian Quartet. I first learned the music from their set of Seraphim lps and was able to purchase the CDs from a French import site. All of the above refers to their early 1960s Stereo set. Warner has just released their early 50s mono set for something like $8 and it's very fine as well.
The Tokyo set is very good. It is much better than the SACD set recorded by the Quartets final line up on Harmonia Munda--and much cheaper


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## classfolkphile

Improbus said:


> People are bound to disagree, especially when things are done better than usual. To me it sounds measured, smooth and well-articulated, but others may value other things.


Which is why I responded to the "they blow the rest out of the water" comment, perhaps a little too strongly.

I've heard and loved many sets but no group does every quartet perfectly. And in fact I find the Kodaly, at their best, to have the qualities you mention, notwithstanding my other criticisms.


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## chill782002

fluteman said:


> No argument from me, but of particular note is the complete cycle the Budapest Quartet recorded at the Library of Congress in 1951 and 52. The second violinist in these recordings is Jac Gorodetzky and not Alexander Schneider. Gorodetzky was a great violinist but was emotionally unstable and ultimately committed suicide in 1955. Alexander Schneider then returned to the quartet. A few months after this cycle was completed, first violinist Josef Roisman fell and badly broke his arm. He had difficulty recovering and probably never fully returned to peak form.
> This is the best set for me. The earlier Budapest recordings are outstanding but the sound quality is not. (Sound quality of the 1951-52 set is so-so but much better than the earlier material.) Their later stereo Beethoven cycle is very good but in my opinion features the quartet slightly past its prime.


Gorodetzky was indeed a wonderful violinist and it is a terrible tragedy that he met such a premature (and self-inflicted) end. In fact, I have the 1951 recording of the line up featuring him performing Schumann's Piano Quintet with Clifford Curzon on the stereo as I write. The cycle I have features either Alexander Schneider or Edgar Ortenberg on second violin, I did not know that they had recorded a separate complete cycle featuring Gorodetzky. Thank you very much for the information, I will be sure to seek it out.


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## TurnaboutVox

I second the recordings by the Quartetto Italiano, the Tokyo and the Alban Berg quartets, for their different virtues.

Pssst. But don't forget IMO the most poetic and musical version of all, if you can forgive its obvious flaws too, which is the Talich Quartet on Calliope.


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## Quartetfore

For the greatest Quartet cycle, I don`t that there ever can be a "best" recorded set. I have most of the most of the sets listed, and a number of single CD`s. While I use the Quartetto Italiano recordings as a sort of reference, I think all the groups that have recorded the music bring their own valid view points to their perfomances.
a note on the Budapest Quartet.; As very young University student ( I entered a year sooner then most)I heard their last concert in New York City. At the time I had 4 or 5 recordings of Chamber Music, but this was my first "live" Chamber Music concert. They played in a hall very close to my school, and for 2$ I took a chance. The only work that they performed that I recall and knew was the Debussy Quartet. 
If H.G. Wells Time Machine was available, I would be on it so that I could hear that concert again.


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## Barbebleu

realdealblues said:


> Everyone has their favorites and you will probably see the same dozen or so recommendations. Much of it depends on how much you want to spend and how much comparative listening you want to do.
> 
> I have over a dozen sets and I personally like the sets from Alban Berg Quartett and Quartteto Italiano the best.


Yep those are the two. Still have a soft spot for the Amadeus Quartet.


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## chill782002

Quartetfore said:


> For the greatest Quartet cycle, I don`t that there ever can be a "best" recorded set. I have most of the most of the sets listed, and a number of single CD`s. While I use the Quartetto Italiano recordings as a sort of reference, I think all the groups that have recorded the music bring their own valid view points to their perfomances.
> a note on the Budapest Quartet.; As very young University student ( I entered a year sooner then most)I heard their last concert in New York City. At the time I had 4 or 5 recordings of Chamber Music, but this was my first "live" Chamber Music concert. They played in a hall very close to my school, and for 2$ I took a chance. The only work that they performed that I recall and knew was the Debussy Quartet.
> If H.G. Wells Time Machine was available, I would be on it so that I could hear that concert again.


Wow, thanks for sharing that memory. I'm very envious.


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## wkasimer

> The Tokyo set is very good. It is much better than the SACD set recorded by the Quartets final line up on Harmonia Munda--and much cheaper.


I agree. Sonic aside, I found their remake disappointing.

The Alexander on Foghorn is my "go-to" set, although I wouldn't part with the Hungarians or the first Tokyo.


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## fluteman

Triplets said:


> Agree completely. I keep recommending aset that no one else has, namely the Hungarian Quartet. I first learned the music from their set of Seraphim lps and was able to purchase the CDs from a French import site. All of the above refers to their early 1960s Stereo set. Warner has just released their early 50s mono set for something like $8 and it's very fine as well.
> The Tokyo set is very good. It is much better than the SACD set recorded by the Quartets final line up on Harmonia Munda--and much cheaper


Who says no one else has the Hungarian quartet set? I think it came in three boxes, and I have at least one or two of them. I know I have the op. 18 box for sure, and it's very good. For the late quartets, the LaSalle on DG is very good too.
Just kidding, by the way. I know you meant no one else has recommended them.


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## Quartetfore

wkasimer said:


> I agree. Sonic aside, I found their remake disappointing.
> 
> The Alexander on Foghorn is my "go-to" set, although I wouldn't part with the Hungarians or the first Tokyo.


Their first complete recording was very good, but I think the second is even better. Since they are located in San Francisco the name of their label is fitting. Off the Beethoven Quartets for a moment, the Alexander`s Shostakovich recordings are top notich


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## damianjb1

chill782002 said:


> I think the recordings by the Takacs Quartet should meet your requirements.


Thank you - I'll definitely check that one out.


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## damianjb1

hpowders said:


> You know, this topic has been talked to death already.
> 
> All one has to do is a search and you would have found a gazillion recommendations.
> 
> As has been stated already here and many other places on TC, the older Tokyo set on RCA is incredible in its consistent excellence throughout the set. A great string quartet in its prime.


I did in fact do several searches search but kept getting errors - but thank you anyway.


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## MusicSybarite

Vegh Quartet
Takács Quartet
Alban Berg Quartet

I'd add the Kodály Quartet (Naxos) as well


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## Robeck

The Aris Quartet, IMHO the best newcomer in the last years, is putting out beethoven 59/3 and 131 on the market on September 8, 2017. I got the CD already and it is superb.


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## Mal

I have the Takács Quartet for the middle and late quartets and recommend them without reservation.

For the early quartets, op.18 (1-6), i have the Tokyo Quartet. The Tokyo sound quality is superb; in a direct comparison of #1 on Spotify I thought the sound quality was slightly better the Takács, fuller and more realistic. I also felt the performance was a bit livelier. BUT throughout op.18 there seemed something slightly superficial about the Tokyo quartet performances. A Guardian reviewer expressed this well:

"The Tokyo Quartet continues to prize beauty of sound and smoothness of articulation above all other musical qualities, … but ... the phrasing here is far too manufactured and uniform, the expressiveness applied like toothpaste from a tube… the Tokyo seem to skate over profundity." https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/nov/25/beethoven-late-quartets-tokyo-string-review

I agree with this, in relation to Op.18. In the later quartets, I never feel the Takács Quartet are manufactured or uniform They are always spontaneous, varied, and interesting. They also maintain beauty of sound and great articulation. Also, I see they now have a box set of the complete quartets at a reasonable price. If I was starting out I'd buy that box set.

But you are never going to get "everything" from one box set. Maybe the Tokyo box set would be a good second purchase, if sound quality and beauty of sound are your priorities. If you want greater inspiration and depth, with slightly compromised sound quality, then the Busch quartet may be the way to go.


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## Polyphemus

So many superb sets available. Hungarians, Italians , Alban Bergs, Takacs etc.
However I would hate to look at my shelves and not see the Lindsays there. 
For me way up there with the best.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

The cycle to which I most return is that by the Talich Quartet; they have an "airiness" of tone which I find particularly appealing, and running them a close second are the sets by the Takács Quartet and Quartetto Italiano. More recently, the Endellion, Belcea and Alexander String Quartet (their second cycle on Foghorn Classics) have been very impressive.


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## Merl

Love lots. Alexander, Italiano, Alban Berg and Tokyo are all excellent.


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## Merl

As as Vegh and Fitwilliam.


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## hpowders

Triplets said:


> Agree completely. I keep recommending aset that no one else has, namely the Hungarian Quartet. I first learned the music from their set of Seraphim lps and was able to purchase the CDs from a French import site. All of the above refers to their early 1960s Stereo set. Warner has just released their early 50s mono set for something like $8 and it's very fine as well.
> The Tokyo set is very good. It is much better than the SACD set recorded by the Quartets final line up on Harmonia Munda--and much cheaper


Yes. I believe I too had the Hungarian Quartet's Beethoven cycle way back when. The older Tokyo Quartet's recording is extremely satisfying to my ears. But I practically need a crane to lift it off my shelf-a more bulky packaging, I have never seen.


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## Triplets

hpowders said:


> Yes. I believe I too had the Hungarian Quartet's Beethoven cycle way back when. The older Tokyo Quartet's recording is extremely satisfying to my ears. But I practically need a crane to lift it off my shelf-a more bulky packaging, I have never seen.


I vaugely remember being dismayed with the packaging, but I burned it to hard drive and disposed of it.


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## Gordontrek

The Alexander String Quartet has an excellent set. In particular I'm extremely impressed by their recordings of the late Beethoven string quartets. Nos. 14 and 15 in this set are remarkable.


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## Merl

Gordontrek said:


> The Alexander String Quartet has an excellent set. In particular I'm extremely impressed by their recordings of the late Beethoven string quartets. Nos. 14 and 15 in this set are remarkable.


Superb set. Great shout.


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## David Phillips

For the spiritual dimension in these works, I'd go for the Busch Quartet.


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## wkasimer

Re the Alexander Quartet:



> Their first complete recording was very good, but I think the second is even better.


Not only is the sound much better on the second set, but the change in first violinist made a huge difference.


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## haydnfan

I'm seeing alot of recommendations that I don't think are great, just good. My favorites are

Budapest Quartet
Vegh Quartet
Hungarian Quartet

and for modern sound the Prazak Quartet.


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## wkasimer

haydnfan said:


> I'm seeing alot of recommendations that I don't think are great, just good. My favorites are
> 
> Budapest Quartet
> Vegh Quartet
> Hungarian Quartet


All three of these groups have multiple recordings of the Beethoven Quartets - which ones are you talking about?


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> All three of these groups have multiple recordings of the Beethoven Quartets - which ones are you talking about?


I'm guessing the Vegh set is the 70s one. Superbly played. The 50s one has scrawny sound and is not as well played, IMO.


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## Quartetfore

So far eighteen different String Quartets have been mentioned in this thread. Which I think proves the point that there never can be the "best" complete recording of the Beethoven Quartets. And, there will never be complete agreement on which one is best.


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## KenOC

Quartetfore said:


> So far eighteen different String Quartets have been mentioned in this thread. Which I think proves the point that there never can be the "best" complete recording of the Beethoven Quartets.


Actually it proves only that most people have difficulty formulating a totally objective and accurate view of such things. But it _is _possible. See my earlier recommendation, for example. :lol:


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## damianjb1

Thank you to everyone for your advice. You've certainly given me a lot to think about. When the time comes to buy this thread will certainly be my guide.


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## Quartetfore

KenOC said:


> Actually it proves only that most people have difficulty formulating a totally objective and accurate view of such things. But it _is _possible. See my earlier recommendation, for example. :lol:


I like a modest man! If I had to keep just one set, I would go with the Quartetto Italiano. Outstanding play, the sound has held up well and it was a birthday gift from a Daughter


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## Merl

Quartetfore said:


> I like a modest man! If I had to keep just one set, I would go with the Quartetto Italiano. Outstanding play, the sound has held up well and it was a birthday gift from a Daughter


I flit between Italiano and Vegh as my go-to set but really enjoy lots more. The Alexander set was my latest squeeze, a few months back but I'm back to Vegh again.


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## Pugg

damianjb1 said:


> Thank you to everyone for your advice. You've certainly given me a lot to think about. When the time comes to buy this thread will certainly be my guide.


Let us know how you've got on when you bought something.


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## damianjb1

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm extremely grateful for the time you all took to give me your advice.
I decided on the Takacs Quartet.







I paid $38.99 on Amazon for 7 CD's, a Blu-Ray and a DVD. Seems like a pretty good bargain to me.
Thanks again.


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## KenOC

Now there's a set you'll never regret buying. But sets 2-20, let's talk about that... :lol:


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## ToneDeaf&Senile

As to physical discs, I too am partial to the Vegh, Italiano, and Takacs, though I don't claim to have auditioned a broad spectrum of the many Beethoven Quartet recordings available for purchase.

I'm going to mention a couple of filmed concert performances found at YouTube that will likely never find their way to commercial release. First up, the Jasper Quartet playing Op.59 No.3 as part of WQXR's Beethoven String Quartet Marathon. A few forgivable minor blemishes aside, I'm quite taken with this performance, the second movement in particular. Second, the Ariel Quartet has a number of B's quartets available for view, again filmed concert performance. All are worth watching / listening to. I'll link the final movement of Op.95.


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## Heliogabo

So many fine sets around there, since the OP matters for great sound I will recommend: Tokyo (RCA), Tákacs, or Alban Berg. You can't go wrong with any of this.


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## Heliogabo

Heliogabo said:


> So many fine sets around there, since the OP matters for great sound I will recommend: Tokyo (RCA), Tákacs, or Alban Berg. You can't go wrong with any of this.


I've just seen you made your choice. You won't regret it.


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## wkasimer

damianjb1 said:


> Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm extremely grateful for the time you all took to give me your advice.
> I decided on the Takacs Quartet.
> View attachment 98447
> 
> I paid $38.99 on Amazon for 7 CD's, a Blu-Ray and a DVD. Seems like a pretty good bargain to me.
> Thanks again.


Excellent choice!


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## damianjb1

KenOC said:


> Now there's a set you'll never regret buying. But sets 2-20, let's talk about that... :lol:


Well yes. I have no doubt I'll be coming back for more advice soon. I'm glad to hear to hear you think I've made a good choice.


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## damianjb1

Heliogabo said:


> I've just seen you made your choice. You won't regret it.


Thank you. I can't wait until they arrive.


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## damianjb1

wkasimer said:


> Excellent choice!


Thank you. Very much appreciated.


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## Quartetfore

My favorite Takacs recording is their complete recording of Benjamin Brittens Quartets. Very interesting music, and great performance and sound. I had a chance to see them several weeks ago(second time) and they were outstanding.


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## mrravioli

what's the flaw of Talich version?


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## Merl

Big shout out to the Elias Quartet for their superb live recordings of the quartets. These are fresh, invigorating accounts. Me likey a lot.


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## Judith

Recently bought a lovely box set of Beethoven Quartets by Endellion String Quartet. Very nice performances.


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## Quartetfore

Merl said:


> Big shout out to the Elias Quartet for their superb live recordings of the quartets. These are fresh, invigorating accounts. Me likey a lot.
> 
> View attachment 101998


I have them in several of the Op.18 quartets, as well as the Op.130, and yes they are very fine group.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> Big shout out to the Elias Quartet for their superb live recordings of the quartets. These are fresh, invigorating accounts. Me likey a lot.
> 
> View attachment 101998


Way too much portamento for my taste, and I'm not wild about the wiry tone of the first violin.


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## newyorkconversation

Merl said:


> Big shout out to the Elias Quartet for their superb live recordings of the quartets. These are fresh, invigorating accounts. Me likey a lot.
> 
> View attachment 101998


Seeing them perform Op.127 on Friday this week in NYC, on a program that also includes Schubert's _Quartettsatz_ and Janáček's _Letres Intimes_. Have been enjoying their live recordings in preparation.


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## newyorkconversation

Came across this blog post -- in which the author lists every single recording of the full Beethoven cycle he knows about.

Many of these have already been referenced in this thread, but as it turns out, there are even more recordings of the full cycle out there.

Quite an impressive feat of research!

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2017/10/a-survey-of-beethoven-string-quartet.html


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## Merl

Ionart's blogs are always very informative (if not always up to date).


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## Over the Rainbow

1/quatuor Vegh II, an introspective and magic version
2/quatuor Vlach, particular version (a kind of bohemian version) but that I find really great


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## APL

My favourites are 
Vegh Q.
Q. Italiano 
Takacs Q.


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## Rogerx

Alban Berg ( first recording)and Takács Quartet.


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## KenOC

So many good cycles! I still prefer the Takacs, but listen also to the Colorado SQ, whose complete cycle has really great sound and the virtue of costing -- 99 cents!

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Co...&qid=1543641896&sr=1-1-mp3-albums-bar-strip-0


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## WildThing

realdealblues said:


> I have over a dozen sets and I personally like the sets from Alban Berg Quartett and Quartteto Italiano the best.


I'm with realdealblues on this one. And for the late quartets give me Busch.


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## starthrower

It's too bad the Takacs sets go out of print after a couple years. I found a used copy of the Bartok's, but the Beethoven set seems rather rare.


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## Itullian

Italiano, Tokyo (RCA), Vegh


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## Guest

The Emerson's recording of the late quartets was one of my early classical purchases. But later I bought the Takacs recording of the Rasumovskys and loved it, so I bought the complete cycle. Still my favorite. I am quite a fan of the Takacs Quartet, and additionally highly recommend their recordings of Schubert's Death and the Maiden, and Dvorak's Piano Quintet.


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## KenOC

Let’s not forget the second Tokyo String Quartet cycle, on Harmonia Mundi. It’s available as four items: the Op. 18, the Rasumovskies, the Harp and Serioso, and the late quartets. Not discounted much.

I have only the early quartets from this cycle and also heard them play one of the Razumovskies in concert ln their final tour. The play as well as on their earlier RCA cycle, but (at least on the quartets I have) the sound is improved – not that it was bad in the first place!


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## wkasimer

starthrower said:


> It's too bad the Takacs sets go out of print after a couple years. I found a used copy of the Bartok's, but the Beethoven set seems rather rare.


The last edition - the one with both CD's and a BluRay disc, seems to be OOP already, but the three RBCD sets aren't hard to find, e.g.:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TAKACS-QUARTET-2-CD-Beethoven-String-Quartets-Decca/162997612374


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## wkasimer

KenOC said:


> Let's not forget the second Tokyo String Quartet cycle, on Harmonia Mundi. It's available as four items: the Op. 18, the Rasumovskies, the Harp and Serioso, and the late quartets. Not discounted much.


This was issued (briefly) as a complete set, steeply discounted. I didn't think it good enough to keep. I don't recall why, but I found it inferior to their earlier RCA set, not to mention any number of others on a crowded shelf.


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## Mandryka

wkasimer said:


> I didn't think it good enough to keep. I don't recall why.


My guess -- the cello!


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## wkasimer

Mandryka said:


> My guess -- the cello!


Could be. It's on Spotify, so maybe I should remind myself.


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## Barbebleu

APL said:


> My favourites are
> Vegh Q.
> Q. Italiano
> Takacs Q.


Nice and I would add the Berg and Amadeus to these.


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## Rangstrom

I don't have any complete sets. I'd rather dip into a number of recordings so that I don't miss out on the Vermeer doing op. 59 or the Yale, Hollywood, Busch and Smetana (on Denon lp for better sound) playing the late quartets.


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## fliege

I bought the Takács set about a year ago but now, at least on Amazon, it's currently only available as MP3. Perhaps it's already out of print. Seems pretty quick for that to happen. Is it normal?


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## wkasimer

fliege said:


> I bought the Takács set about a year ago but now, at least on Amazon, it's currently only available as MP3. Perhaps it's already out of print. Seems pretty quick for that to happen. Is it normal?


Unfortunately, yes.


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## dismrwonderful

My personal choice is the Guarneri Quartet set, but there are many fine sets out there as shown above. There are several fine sets available for free on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=beethoven+complete+string+quartets+

Dan


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## Ras

My favorite complete set is *Quartetto Italiano* on Phillips/Decca.


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## Quartetfore

the sound on this set is still good compared to more modern recordings. I think a number of the performances on the set are a bit slower then say the Takacs recordings, but the playing is quite beautiful.


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## Ras

Quartetfore said:


> the sound on this set is still good compared to more modern recordings. I think a number of the performances on the set are a bit slower then say the Takacs recordings, but the playing is quite beautiful.


Yes, I think the Quartetto Italiano is probably slower, heavier - but also somehow "warmer" - It's something I find in recordings of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven from the early golden days of stereo - like probably 1960's and 1970' - "Warmth" - I don't know what else to call it... But it is probably old-fashioned.


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## Quartetfore

It might be that when LP`s are converted to CD (add) they still retain a bit of the "warmth" of the original recording. There are some that say or used to say that the sound of the CD is cold. I for one don`t hear that, but I will trade Cold sound for the pops and snaps that you could hear on LP`s.
I to have thought that the performance might be old fashioned, but they do make a beautiful sound.


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## 89Koechel

Interesting thread, and I'm sure that "damianjb" found some excellent recommendations; I'd like to know WHICH cycle (or cycles) he finally chose. I've seen reviews of the Beethoven 16, even going back to the pages of High Fidelity magazine, and it's 1970 (or 1971) comprehensive view of ALL of Beethoven, incl. the Quartets … the latter handled by Robert P. Morgan (a fine reviewer). Well, it's a FUNNY (I guess) thing, but I've seen NO mention of one of the great chamber ensembles of all …. the Juilliard Quartet. I'd bought the LP box version of the MIDDLE Quartets, partially because of this -> "The Juilliard set omits Op. 95, but it has outstanding performances of the other four pieces. The Juilliard plays with a sense of precision and rhythmic thrust unmatched by any other quartet currently active." …. and " … I find their playing highly expressive, but this expressivity is the result of clear articulation of formal structure rather than mere surface nuance." …. Well, after listening to that "old", boxed LP set once or twice more, I'm sure that Morgan's comments are completely justified, and, to go further, it might be difficult for many or less of the other recommendations to MATCH what the Juilliard achieved, decades ago. In any case, thanks to you, who've posted the very-fine OTHER recommendations, and this is the sort of music that can COMPEL a chamber group to reach their best level, one would think.


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## 89Koechel

Well, it might seem "normal" (or abnormal, in reality) to us, but let's always realize that the audience for classical recordings is a somewhat THIN one, and that can mean that a great Toscanini or Furtwangler (or, name your favorite) recording/reissue can go OUT of print, just as fast as the recordings of a 10th-rate pop singer can go UP, in print, into the millions. …. BTW, sometimes MP3 recordings "ain't" THAT bad, esp. if they keep excellent recordings AVAILABLE, for those who appreciate them - wouldn't you think?


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## Quartetfore

Agreed, and I don` think mp3 recordings are so bad either. I download mp3, and then burn them to a disc. this way I don`t make a big investment and can hear almost any thing I want to hear. As for sound---good enough.


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## 89Koechel

(good enough) - Surely! .. and we know that there were MANY recordings, esp. vocal, that were made in the days of ACOUSTIC recordings, before the electrical (ones). Acoustical, vocal recordings were the FOUNDATIONS that the various volumes of the great reissue - The Record of Singing/EMI - used. …. Pristine Classical still offers MP3 recordings, in it's exemplary reissue program, and these … to my ears …. are entirely appropriate.


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## juliante

Has anyone heard or bought the recent complete quartet set by the Miro Quartet? Some positive reviews out there, I might spend some xmas money on it. I like the cover too


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## Merl

juliante said:


> Has anyone heard or bought the recent complete quartet set by the Miro Quartet? Some positive reviews out there, I might spend some xmas money on it. I like the cover too


Ive been speaking to Itullian about this set. Whilst I like it, I find it a little too gentle at times. It's extremely well-played and I particularly enjoyed the middle quartets but I like a little bit more vigour and swagger in my LVB SQ cycles. However, it's a fine set, undoubtedly... I'd just choose others over it (Vegh, Takacs Italianos, Alexander 2, for example). As a footnote, I find the sound balances odd on this set. Can't quite put my finger on why, I just find the sound stage a little unrealistic. Listen to this and then listen to the Kodaly Quartet set and you'll hear what I mean (that's an excellent set too). Naxos really nailed the sound for that cycle.


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## CnC Bartok

mrravioli said:


> what's the flaw of Talich version?


Nothing whatsoever!!!

Some may think the Talich set (now on La Dolce Volta, formerly on Calliope) lack a bit of drama. But they more than make up for that with more "Innigkeit" than any other set I have heard. They are probably my favourite set.

Alongside them my other three favourite full sets are the Gewandhaus, the Italianos, and the later Vegh. I would not be without the Busch late quartets for anything, and I have several other sets I am extremely fond of.


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## Allegro Con Brio

When I just want to hear Beethoven pure and simple, I turn to the Italiano. They have the sort of clean, balanced, warm, classical sound that just meets the ear in a pleasant way. My favorite overall is probably Takacs- wonderfully expressive and full-bodied. I also love the stereo Vegh (a wholly unique, earthy sound that you don't get elsewhere, though sometimes too lightweight), Juilliard (some highly creative playing especially in the late quartets), and Lindsays (big, thick, opulent tone). And of course, the Busch is absolutely essential in the late quartets. I have the Talich, Alexander, and Tokyo on deck to check out when I get into a Beethoven mode.


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## Itullian

I have just finished listening to the 6 opus 18 quartets by the Miro.
I agree with Merl. A bit to soft. The interpretations are good but the sound
is claustrophobic. 
It is also on the dry side and very closely recorded, which has some benefits but lacks some passion. It sounds more analog than digital to me.
The sound of the recording most resembles the Talich set. Close and dry.
An interesting listen so far, but would not be in my top sets
If you like the Talich set ( i don't), you might like the Miro.
I'll listen to the middle and late tomorrow.
just mho


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## philoctetes

Being a SQ fanatic I got the complete QI box a couple years ago even though they weren't my favorite ensemble... but once my ears adjusted to that glossy sound I have come to like them as much as the Vegh and Talich - they have a little more dynamic punch at times where it doesn't hurt... but I like the others when I want a more classical sound...


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## Helgi

I've been dipping into different recordings on Spotify and one that came as a pleasant surprise, as nobody seems to talk about it, is the Cypress String Quartet.

They recorded an entire cycle in 2009-12 and what I've heard of it is very good; excellent sound, characterful but not over-the-top playing. Op. 132 III is the one that seems to make or break it for me in terms of interpretation, and theirs is very good.

I'll concede that my opinion is not that well informed, so I'm interested to know what you guys think about it.


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## Enthusiast

CnC Bartok said:


> Nothing whatsoever!!!
> 
> Some may think the Talich set (now on La Dolce Volta, formerly on Calliope) lack a bit of drama. But they more than make up for that with more "Innigkeit" than any other set I have heard. They are probably my favourite set.
> 
> Alongside them my other three favourite full sets are the Gewandhaus, the Italianos, and the later Vegh. I would not be without the Busch late quartets for anything, and I have several other sets I am extremely fond of.


That nearly sums it up for me, too, But I do also think highly of the Borodin Quartet's set and also the Budapest Quartet's.


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## Merl

Helgi said:


> I've been dipping into different recordings on Spotify and one that came as a pleasant surprise, as nobody seems to talk about it, is the Cypress String Quartet.
> 
> They recorded an entire cycle in 2009-12 and what I've heard of it is very good; excellent sound, characterful but not over-the-top playing. Op. 132 III is the one that seems to make or break it for me in terms of interpretation, and theirs is very good.
> 
> I'll concede that my opinion is not that well informed, so I'm interested to know what you guys think about it.


Nowt wrong with Cypress. Nice set. I'm currently on the Goldner cycle in the car. Initially I couldn't make my mind up about it. The playing is splendid and I like how the Goldners traverse the set in different ways but there are just better cycles out there, for me, at the moment. Highly enjoyable though.


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## CnC Bartok

Currently listening to the Fine Arts quartet cycle. Very good, not necessarily a favourite of the future, though.

Anyone here know the recording dates? Got them as a download, with no documentation, and I like to know these things....! Are they ALL 1969???

TIA


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## Oldhoosierdude

CnC Bartok said:


> Currently listening to the Fine Arts quartet cycle. Very good, not necessarily a favourite of the future, though.
> 
> Anyone here know the recording dates? Got them as a download, with no documentation, and I like to know these things....! Are they ALL 1969???
> 
> TIA


Yes, very good. FAQ also has some excellent Bartok.


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> Currently listening to the Fine Arts quartet cycle. Very good, not necessarily a favourite of the future, though.
> 
> Anyone here know the recording dates? Got them as a download, with no documentation, and I like to know these things....! Are they ALL 1969???
> 
> TIA


Ignore the reviews that state that the recordings were all 1969. That's rubbish, especially considering the full set was released in 1968. The whole cycle was probably recorded between 1962 and 1966 but documentation is sketchy and Everest (original label) and Discogs give the recording year of some of the quartets as 1959 (and later, confusingly, as 1963). If anyone can pass on any more details then fire away. I only have the remastered download and recording dates aren't given. What I can work out is that the late quartets were released first and some could be from 1959, the early quartets were released next (around 1964) and the middle quartets came last in 1967. In 1968 the full set was released for the first time and re-boxed and re-released in 1969.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> Ignore the reviews that state that the recordings were all 1969. That's rubbish, especially considering the full set was released in 1968. The whole cycle was probably recorded between 1962 and 1966 but documentation is sketchy and Everest (original label) and Discogs give the recording year of some of the quartets as 1959 (and later, confusingly, as 1963). If anyone can pass on any more details then fire away. I only have the remastered download and recording dates aren't given. What I can work out is that the late quartets were released first and some could be from 1959, the early quartets were released next (around 1964) and the middle quartets came last in 1967. In 1968 the full set was released for the first time and re-boxed and re-released in 1969.


The FAQ Wikipedia page has some dates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Arts_Quartet

I have the middle and late sets on CD - if I can remember, I'll have a look at the booklets and see if they provide specifics.


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## CnC Bartok

Thanks for your help gents, appreciated. Sorry but the anorak in me insists on having these details to hand.....

That said, lots of details to absorb, perhaps I shouldn't have asked???


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## SchubertDidKetamine

I generally prefer the Alban Berg Quartett, however for Beethoven I think the Kodály Quartet is essential listening (especially the final F major quartet, their performance of the second movement is untouchable. I never really realized how incredible of a composition this was until I heard this recording; it's really something else). That said, people have also touched on my other favorites (Tokyo and Takacs).


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## flamencosketches

SchubertDidKetamine said:


> I generally prefer the Alban Berg Quartett, however for Beethoven I think the Kodály Quartet is essential listening (especially the final F major quartet, their performance of the second movement is untouchable. I never really realized how incredible of a composition this was until I heard this recording; it's really something else). That said, people have also touched on my other favorites (Tokyo and Takacs).


Welcome to the boards SchubertDidKetamine-what a name! :lol: Anyway, I love that Kodály Quartet recording of the final F major quartet. Tákacs Quartet who you also mention are performing the op.135 near me next month. So excited! I'm not familiar with their Beethoven but I will have to make it out surely.


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## Merl

SchubertDidKetamine said:


> I generally prefer the Alban Berg Quartett, however for Beethoven I think the Kodály Quartet is essential listening ........


That cycle is hugely underrated. I think its one of the better ones out there but im no Naxos-snob so it gets the same consideration as all the others.


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## HenryPenfold

For some reason I always come back to the Emersons. It also helps that I've seen them live. a few times in London. 

But I also have the DG recordings of the Hagen Quartet which I recommend highly. And of course the Quartetto Italiano are indispensable. 

I've been enjoying the Belcea Quartets cycle via streaming and I'm tempted to buy the set.


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## CnC Bartok

Merl said:


> That cycle is hugely underrated. I think its one of the better ones out there but im no Naxos-snob so it gets the same consideration as all the others.


Glad someone mentioned "Naxos-snobbery", and commenting upon its absence here. If people think they're cheap and shoddy, their loss. Naxos have introduced me to not only some wonderful music, but also some excellent performers, the Kodaly Quartet being just one of many of the latter.


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> Glad someone mentioned "Naxos-snobbery", and commenting upon its absence here. If people think they're cheap and shoddy, their loss. Naxos have introduced me to not only some wonderful music, but also some excellent performers, the Kodaly Quartet being just one of many of the latter.


That same budget-label snobbery was also in evidence towards some of the Brilliant Classics releases. Fortunately, the more savvy buyers saw past that and ended up with some phenomenal performances for pennies (Blomstedt's Beethoven cycle, Barshai's Shostakovich, Suske LVB quartets, etc). I have a lot of Naxos releases and some are amongst my faves (Bognar's Hungarian Dances, Alsop's Brahms symphonies, etc).


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## CnC Bartok

Merl said:


> That same budget-label snobbery was also in evidence towards some of the Brilliant Classics releases. Fortunately, the more savvy buyers saw past that and ended up with some phenomenal performances for pennies (Blomstedt's Beethoven cycle, Barshai's Shostakovich, Suske LVB quartets, etc). I have a lot of Naxos releases and some are amongst my faves (Bognar's Hungarian Dances, Alsop's Brahms symphonies, etc).


True, but as far as I am aware, Brilliant are mainly re-releases, so "cheap" may mean old or obscure, or back catalogue clean-out. Naxos are mainly new recordings (ignoring their huge Historical catalogue of course!), so cheap could easily be associated with second rate? I suppose Antoni Wit doesn't have the same financial demands as Gustavo Dudamel.:lol:

I cannot list my favourite Brilliant CDs, there are too many, but that Suske set is a no-brainer, as are the Barshai Shostakovich. Their opera series has some absolute gems too.

With Naxos, it'd be even harder!! However, they aren't as super-bargain as once they were......


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## Oldhoosierdude

CnC Bartok said:


> Glad someone mentioned "Naxos-snobbery", and commenting upon its absence here. If people think they're cheap and shoddy, their loss. Naxos have introduced me to not only some wonderful music, but also some excellent performers, the Kodaly Quartet being just one of many of the latter.


Kodaly is an excellent quartet. Naxos has what some people call a house pianist in Jeno Jando. He is quite wonderful with Bartok and Haydn and his Beethoven Piano Sonatas are my favorite. He has some strinkers, his Goldberg Variations I simply do not understand. Naxos also has an above average Beethoven Symphony Cycle under Bela Drahos.

I've also seen snobbery over the Bach Guild box downloads. Snobbery exists. Their loss


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## Merl

CnC Bartok said:


> True, but as far as I am aware, Brilliant are mainly re-releases, so "cheap" may mean old or obscure, or back catalogue clean-out.....


I was just trying to point out that cheap doesn't always equate to inferior.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> I was just trying to point out that cheap doesn't always equate to inferior.


I feel obliged to point out that in 2020, Naxos is no longer "cheap". Their price has drifted up, at the same time as major labels issue historic sets for $2 or less per CD. The Kodaly Quartet is perfectly fine, but why would I want to shell out $9 per CD for their cycle when on Friday, I'll be able to purchase this?:









Naxos has issued some excellent recordings, but I'd describe the vast majority of their offerings - and I've heard hundreds of them - as serviceable to good. Naxos is valuable when they issue obscure music that other labels won't touch.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> I feel obliged to point out that in 2020, Naxos is no longer "cheap". Their price has drifted up, at the same time as major labels issue historic sets for $2 or less per CD. The Kodaly Quartet is perfectly fine, but why would I want to shell out $9 per CD for their cycle when on Friday, I'll be able to purchase this?:
> 
> View attachment 130042
> 
> 
> Naxos has issued some excellent recordings, but I'd describe the vast majority of their offerings - and I've heard hundreds of them - as serviceable to good. Naxos is valuable when they issue obscure music that other labels won't touch.


I agree that Naxos have missed a trick by not putting their recordings out in boxes now they are quite a few years old. The Kodaly recordings and The Drahos set would sell much better if they were in cheap boxes but they lumped then together in that big Beethoven 250 box and that was a bad decision. They could have knocked out budget boxes of both and they'd have sold far better. Missed opportunities.

BTW, wkasimer, how much is that Juilliard set retailing at? I'm tempted to pull the trigger if it's remastered.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> BTW, wkasimer, how much is that Juilliard set retailing at? I'm tempted to pull the trigger if it's remastered.


I think that it's under US$50. I assume that it's remastered - that cycle was last issued about twenty years ago by French Sony:









That set sounded fine, BTW.


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## Itullian

Anyone familiar with this set?


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## Merl

Itullian said:


> Anyone familiar with this set?


One of the few I haven't heard or got, Itullian. Any good?


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## wkasimer

Itullian said:


> Anyone familiar with this set?


I have this as part of an Ars Nova set of their complete recordings. I've only heard a couple of the early quartets, which are fine, but I'm not sure that this is essential unless you're a Beethoven quartet glutton.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> ........but I'm not sure that this is essential unless you're a Beethoven quartet glutton.


Youre talking to the wrong people then with me and Itullian. Hahaha.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> Youre talking to the wrong people then with me and Itullian. Hahaha.


I'm no better - you'll note that whenever anyone asks about a set, I've usually heard it....


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## CnC Bartok

Found a review of this set online, not enthusiastic though...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Jan13/Beethoven_quartets_FR245.htm

I'm nowhere near your levels of dedication/obsession, with my 21 complete sets plus odds and sods...:tiphat:


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## SchubertDidKetamine

Thanks for the welcome, friend  I would definitely make the effort to go! The Danish Quartet are doing a chronological performance of the quartets and Lincoln center this season; sadly, one cannot afford to go to every performance (obviously a huge cash cow for them so they really pushed the prices up), so I had to choose 1 (like picking a favorite child). But, I would trade my ticket in a heartbeat to see Tákacs perform op. 135! No shade to the Danish Quartet.


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## SchubertDidKetamine

"Naxos-snob" :lol: Agreed. There are countless recordings on Naxos I cherish. Sad that people will try to gatekeep anything. I quite admire Naxos, if you disregard a recording simply because of the status of the label you're playing yourself, and missing out on some phenomenal music.


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## Merl

Naxos-snobbery used to be quite overt ("Oh Naxos, Id never buy ANYTHING from that label" - a comment I once heard whilst browsing CDs at a shop) however over the years its become much more covert (" Naxos are satisfactory recordings but if you want the first tier stuff it will always be on the big labels, like DG or Decca" - a comment made to me by someone selling CDs privately). I find label snobbery hilarious. A small minority of my most cherished recordings are from obscure labels and came from charity shops for pennies (eg. Handley's Planets on Tring).


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## Quartetfore

Merl said:


> One of the few I haven't heard or got, Itullian. Any good?


the set was released in 1957 as a part of the "book of the Month club program. My reference set is the Italian Quartet.


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## Merl

Quartetfore said:


> the set was released in 1957 as a part of the "book of the Month club program. My reference set is the Italian Quartet.


I knew plenty about the Pascal set, just never heard it. One of the few sets I dont have. Last week I picked up the Philharmonia Quartet Berlin cycle but I haven't listened to it yet (I have a listening backlog).


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## Aragorn

I’ve heard many recordings of the Middle and Late Quartets including the Emerson, Takacs, and Berg ensembles. I prefer the Guarneri and Italiano sets -- I have both as well as the Emerson on CD. 

(Heck, I still have the LP Box of the Guarneri from 1970.)


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## PeterF

I have two complete sets of Beethoven String Quartets. One by the Suske String Quartet and one by by the Gewandhaus Quartet and I like them both very much.
However I have many individual recordings of the Beethoven String Quartets by many different groups such as The Tokyo String Quartet, Italiano, Smetana, Mosaiques, Prazak, Cremona,


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## ZeR0

I highly recommend the Alban Berg Quartett for the late string quartets.


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## Jokke

There is a new release of the complete Beethoven quartets by Quattuor Ebène.
Highly recommended.


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## perdido34

I've listened to several of the Ebene discs via downloads. I found them quite variable. The best performance of the bunch I've heard is the Grosse Fuge, which is incredibly clear and played with strong accents. In contrast, Razumovsky #3 seemed soft-edged. I'm also not wild about the cello, which sounds more tenor/baritone and not very strong in the bass--but the cellist is a fine musician.

All of the performances are live and recorded in different cities. The discs I heard seemed to have close microphoning with some added reverb.


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## hoodjem

1. Vegh Quartet (1972-74; Valois/Naive)
2. Lindsay String Quartet (1975-84; ASV/Resonance)
3. Tokyo Quartet (1989-92; RCA)
4. Quartetto Italiano (1967-75; Phi/Decca)


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## Guest

perdido34 said:


> I've listened to several of the Ebene discs via downloads. I found them quite variable. The best performance of the bunch I've heard is the Grosse Fuge, which is incredibly clear and played with strong accents. In contrast, Razumovsky #3 seemed soft-edged. I'm also not wild about the cello, which sounds more tenor/baritone and not very strong in the bass--but the cellist is a fine musician.
> 
> All of the performances are live and recorded in different cities. The discs I heard seemed to have close microphoning with some added reverb.


I liked the set very much at first, and I still admire many aspects, but that close perspective gets a little wearing after a while. I think my _favorite_ (I really wish EVERYONE would quit saying "the best" or asking about it--it's much too subjective) for day-to-day listening is the Quartetto Italiano on vinyl.


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## wkasimer

Fugal said:


> I liked the set very much at first, and I still admire many aspects, but that close perspective gets a little wearing after a while.


I agree - it's more tolerable at home in a bigger room, but tough going in my office or via headphones. I have the same issue with the Juilliard Quartet's 1960's set. Much as I love the performances, the sonics make it hard to listen to on a regular basis.



> I think my favorite (I really wish EVERYONE would quit saying "the best" or asking about it--it's much too subjective) for day-to-day listening is the Quartetto Italiano on vinyl.


For me, it's probably the Alexander Quartet's second version on Foghorn, or the Musikverein Quartet on Platz (the latter is a great set if you can find it).


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## Allegro Con Brio

Vegh stereo, Italiano, and Takacs are my three essential cycles. I also love Busch, Lindsay, and Juilliard for the late quartets. I think many ensembles (like the famous Alban Berg set IMO) can fall into the trap of “overprettifying” the music and hence missing out on the essential depth and potential for interpretive exploration inherent in these sublime works.


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## Merl

Recently I've been playing the Tokyo Quartet's first set a lot and it's still a brilliant cycle.


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## Guest

Among more recent releases, the Quartor Ebene is very good, but I still prefer the Quartetto Italiano.


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## Simplicissimus

I’m buying the Leipziger Streichquartett’s 10-CD set (includes the quintets). Haven’t heard it yet but the playing and sound are said to be brilliant. Wish me luck!


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## ORigel

I have Emersons, but they focus more on virtuosity than emotional impact.


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## flamencosketches

I have two sets: Colorado SQ & Belcea Quartet, which I haven't even heard yet outside of a couple selections (13, 14 & 15, before I even bought the set). I also have the late quartets from the Kodály Quartet on Naxos, which is very good but I don't want to spend the $30+ that would be needed to complete it. (Maybe someday I'll buy the Naxos Beethoven box.) Not sure if I need any more though it would be nice to get one of the "classic" sets at some point, Italiano or Berg or Juilliard or some such. Truth be told, the Beethoven quartets are not stimulating my imagination at this moment. My focus lies entirely elsewhere, even within Beethoven. I go through long phases where his quartets do nothing for me, and other phases where they're all I want to hear.


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## Enthusiast

At first I found the Belcea a little lightweight but I soon found myself loving it. And so far it remains the only recent set that I have heard and found worthwhile (as good as the best of the slightly older ones - I'm sure I will have posted my best choices somewhere in this thread - but with something new to add). I will try to sample the Ebene. Any other recent ones I should be searching out?


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Fugal said:


> Among more recent releases, the Quartor Ebene is very good, but I still prefer the Quartetto Italiano.


Second that. This is the best recent recording to my ear. Sound engineer is excellent and very exciting live performance but I have yet done a detailed evaluation of it.

For the classics, I should mention Tokyo Quartet as it normally fly under the radar but it's one of my favorite, witty and lovely, not your usual "heavy" or "deep" Beethoven.


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## CnC Bartok

Simplicissimus said:


> I'm buying the Leipziger Streichquartett's 10-CD set (includes the quintets). Haven't heard it yet but the playing and sound are said to be brilliant. Wish me luck!


An excellent set, hope you enjoy it!


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## Knorf

ORigel said:


> I have Emersons, but they focus more on virtuosity than emotional impact.


This cliché gets tossed out there a lot about the Emersons. But what does it mean? If they missed more notes like Vegh, were as out of tune as the Lindsays, or failed more often at ensemble togetherness like Budapest, would that make their set better? In other words, they'd be better if they sucked?

I used to avoid the Emerson's Beethoven cycle because of comments like this. I wish I hadn't; it's rubbish.

It _is_ true that the Emerson Quartet is just about the most virtuosic and polished string quartet around. That this is used as a focal point of criticism is absolutely baffling.

I've recently done a complete re-listen, and the Emerson set is superb, clearly one of the best. Their performances are _not_ less emotional or any of that nonsense. I mean, how would you even know? Telepathy does not exist. But no musician, not even one, works as hard as the Emersons clearly did in order to achieve the polish they did without really, really, really loving their work. _No one does that._

Beethoven Quartets will frustrate the Hades out of you if you try to play them at a top level and aren't deeply emotionally engaged with the music. Actually, they still will, but you'll feel like it is worth it. Achieving the polish the Emersons did is a hugely remarkable achievement, a labor of love over countless thousands of hours or practice and rehearsal.

The Emerson performances are not particularly idiosyncratic or esoteric, so if you're looking for that, this might not be the set for you. Interpretively, they're basically mainstream. They don't pull back on any Beethovenian punches, but they also don't do anything particularly unexpected, other than play with astonishing conviction and clarity. Their tempi are forthright but largely conventional. They play in tune and absolutely together, with really excellent albeit mainstream Beethovenian style.

But given that, it is as terrific, polished, and committed mainstream set of Beethoven Quartets as you will find, and in high-quality recorded sound. Recommended.


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## millionrainbows

Let's focus on a specific "virtuosic" section to test this. In the "Harp" quartet, at 5:50-6:14. Is Emerson better than this?


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## Knorf

millionrainbows said:


> Let's focus on a specific "virtuosic" section to test this. In the "Harp" quartet, at 5:50-6:14. Is Emerson better than this?


Better, no. Different, yes.

For the record, I think the Guarneri cycle is also terrific.


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## Oldhoosierdude

I listened to the Fine Arts Quartet recordings of Beethoven and Bartok quartets for a time through my Amazon account until they were no longer available. Liked them so much that I purchased them. These are old recordings remastered and sound wonderful. Their Haydn is quite good also. FAQ doesn't have the name recognition of other groups and get sometimes overlooked in the volume of other fine recordings out there.

There is another version of the Fine Arts Quartet currently recording for the Naxos label. They are pretty good also.


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## Knorf

The Fine Arts Quartet were a fabulous ensemble. I guess they still are, although I've not heard any of the more recent recordings from them. I'm glad you like that cycle!


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## Merl

Knorf said:


> The Fine Arts Quartet were a fabulous ensemble. I guess they still are, although I've not heard any of the more recent recordings from them. I'm glad you like that cycle!


The Fine Arts Quartet have been recording for Naxos for the past 15 years but I can't say I've heard too many of their recordings apart from their Schumann and A pair of Mendelssohn quartets which I thought were solid but a bit characterless. Btw, here's some additional info gleaned from the Internet....

_"... Back in 1962 the members then were Leonard Sorkin, violin, Abram Loft, violin, Irving Ilmer, viola and George Sopkin, cello, of which Sorkin and Sopkin were founding members back in 1946. Changes of personnel have of course taken place, but of the present members cellist Wolfgang Laufer replaced Sopkin in 1979, first violinist Ralph Evans succeeded Sorkin in 1982 and second violinist Efim Boico joined in 1983, which means that the three of them have been playing together for almost 25 years. Violist Yuri Gandelsman arrived in 2001. With such longevity, especially in the outer voices, the tradition no doubt lives on and together with the Borodin Quartet, founded the same year although initially under a different name, the Fine Arts Quartet can claim to be possibly the most long-lived quartet. "
_


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## SearsPoncho

It depends on the audio quality one can tolerate. The original post (I'm sure he/she already made the purchase) requested "fabulous" sound or audio quality. Therefore, the Busch Qt. would obviously be out. I think the Takacs Quartet is an obvious choice. I'm also very partial to the Quartetto Italiano. Unfortunately, as with all complete sets of sonatas, symphonies, or string quartets, there will be an occasional clunker or disappointment. While the Takacs is excellent, I found their recording of my favorite quartet, Op.132, to be disappointing. Luckily, the Quartetto Italiano has my favorite Op.132 in good sound. I think the Tokyo Quartet is excellent and in superior sound. The Guarneri Qt. is also very good, although there are one or two disappointments. This is a minority opinion, but I'm not too fond of the much loved Alban Berg Quartet recordings.


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## Merl

SearsPoncho said:


> .... This is a minority opinion, but I'm not too fond of the much loved Alban Berg Quartet recordings.


Like the symphony cycles there's something out there for us all and we can't all just like the same stuff and you're right about the big sets not always being the best in certain quartets. There are plenty of individual releases out there that are occasionally mightier, but it can be difficult to find them all. It's just nice to have the sets for convenience and consistent quality though (and they do sometimes contain the best versions).


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## SearsPoncho

Deleted post .


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## SearsPoncho

Merl said:


> Like the symphony cycles there's something out there for us all and we can't all just like the same stuff and you're right about the big sets not always being the best in certain quartets. There are plenty of individual releases out there that are occasionally mightier, but it can be difficult to find them all. It's just nice to have the sets for convenience and consistent quality though (and they do sometimes contain the best versions).


Good points. There's also a tremendous economic advantage to buying such boxed sets these days. One can purchase complete sets of the quartets for about the price of what record stores used to charge for a single, full-priced cd.


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## Knorf

Thoughts on the Miró Quartet Beethoven cycle? It's currently deeply discounted at jpc.de: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/saemtliche-streichquartette/hnum/9497688


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## Eclectic Al

Just listened to the Guarneri in No 15, having acquired their set for virtually nothing on Supraphon. Thought it was great.


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> Thoughts on the Miró Quartet Beethoven cycle? It's currently deeply discounted at jpc.de: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/saemtliche-streichquartette/hnum/9497688


I thought that their Opus 18 set was pretty tame stuff, so I'm passing on this, however cheap it may be.

FWIW, here's what Jerry Dubins concluded wrote Fanfare (it's a much longer review, of course):

"Put another way, the Miró's Beethoven cycle is subject to some unevenness and inconsistency, and ultimately, the ensemble may be committed to an interpretive approach and style of playing that won't be to everyone's taste. I, for one, find myself unmoved in many instances by playing that strikes me as over-refined and understated, playing that is perfect in execution but oblivious to the profound spirituality, revelatory power, and import of this music to Mankind. "


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## Knorf

Thanks, wkasimer. And Merl, who messaged me privately with similar thoughts about Miró being perhaps too much on the light, "Classical" side.

I must say though that a statement like this from the quoted Fanfare review: "...oblivious to the profound spirituality, revelatory power, and import of this music to Mankind" strikes me as so _inexcusably_ pompous and unbelievably stupid that I am unlikely to take what else what written in the review even slightly seriously. I might point and laugh at the reviewer, maybe roll my eyes, but pay any further notice? No.


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## SearsPoncho

Eclectic Al said:


> Just listened to the Guarneri in No 15, having acquired their set for virtually nothing on Supraphon. Thought it was great.


The Guarneri Quartet made an excellent single disc recording of Op.127 and Op.135 in superb digital sound in 1987. One of the best single disc recordings of late Beethoven's two most approachable quartets. It's on the Philips label.


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## wkasimer

SearsPoncho said:


> The Guarneri Quartet made an excellent single disc recording of Op.127 and Op.135 in superb digital sound in 1987. One of the best single disc recordings of late Beethoven's two most approachable quartets. It's on the Philips label.


This was actually part of a complete cycle, the second by the Guarneri. It's been issued complete by Brilliant:









It was also included in this enormous Brilliant Beethoven box:


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## Eclectic Al

wkasimer said:


> This was actually part of a complete cycle, the second by the Guarneri. It's been issued complete by Brilliant


I guess I got the first cycle then. It was one of the RCA reissues at 199 Czech Koruna on Supraphon (or £69.04 on Presto Music, if you want to pay 10x as much for better tags and a less trying download process).

The sound quality seems fine from what I've listened to so far, and the performance of No 15 hit the spot for me. My first experience of Beethoven's late quartets was the Lindsay and (from memory) they seemed a bit scruffy compared to the above, without necessarily any more "depth".


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## Itullian

Knorf said:


> Thoughts on the Miró Quartet Beethoven cycle? It's currently deeply discounted at jpc.de: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/saemtliche-streichquartette/hnum/9497688


I have this set and enjoy it very much. i don't find it dull at all and it's nicely recorded.
For that price it's a great deal.
It may not be he best but it's good.


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## Varick

The CD's are in storage, but in my Computer Music Library, I have the following:

- Quartets 1-6 "Early String Quartets" 3CDs, by Guarneri Quartet (1969)
- Quartets 7-10 by Budapest Quartet (1959 - 1960)
- Quartets 11-16 "Late String Quartets" 3CDs by Guarneri Quartet (1969)

I also have the Muir St Qt playing #15 Quartet. More of an obscure recording. I used to manage them as well.

Would like to know what the veterans of these pieces think of these recordings if they have heard them. I just started listening to them again and am listening to #1 in F, Op. 18 Quartet right now.

V


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## newyorkconversation

For me the Tokyo is the reference series - uniformly excellent with decent sonics. Other performances may be better for individual quartets but this is what I come back to for the cycle.


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## annaw

I'm currently working my way through Alexander Quartet's 2009 recording. I've so far spent quite a lot of time with the middle quartets and started with the early ones today. I really love the playing! It's wonderful to listen to how the Alexanders convey the heroic, courageous Romantic idiom of Beethoven's string quartets. A magnificent poetic account of these masterpieces.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Quote Originally Posted by Bill H. View Post
Itullian--those are the later CD series of Cleveland Quartet recordings, with a change or two in the Quartet's personnel. The CQ also recorded a full Beethoven cycle starting in the 70s or so, but they were ONLY released on RCA LPs. They were never reissued in any format that I've been able to determine. Same for other rep they recorded for Victor.

As it turns out, my younger son Brian did his BS in Violin Performance at the New England Conservatory as a student of Donald Weilerstein, the Quartet's founding 1st Violin (and has continued some studies with him as an Artist Diploma student at Juilliard). Some years ago, we tracked down as many of the original Cleveland Q's RCA recordings that we could find, including the entire Beethoven cycle, and transferred them. Don had never heard the recordings himself, so we burned them all to CDs for him, and then made available the transfers to NEC students first, but now to anyone who wants them.

If you go to this link on my Google Docs, you'll find folders for all the early Cleveland Quartet RCA LP transfers we made, including the Beethoven Cycle (subdivided into folders for the Early, Middle and Late Quartets).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mc?usp=sharing

These zipped files are in mp3 (320 kbps) format, essentially untouched sonically except for declicking and some LP noise reduction applied.

Anyone who might be interested, feel free. There's also Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Haydn, Dvorak, even some Ives!
Bill H.

[Post edit: After we did these transfers, a website popped up that is the Cleveland Quartet's official historical site--including links to stream their early LP releases, so they are now "available" by other means] www.clevelandquartet.com

________________

A copy and paste from another thread. Another poster made these available legal and free to download. The Cleveland Quartet from the 70's were reasonably well known and these recordings are long OOP. I have listened many times and they are well worth the effort.


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## newyorkconversation

the link doesn't seem to have survived the copy and paste (it got truncated in the middle)...


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## Malx

newyorkconversation said:


> For me the Tokyo is the reference series - uniformly excellent with decent sonics. Other performances may be better for individual quartets but this is what I come back to for the cycle.


Which Tokyo set is your preference, the Sony/RCA box or the Harmonia Mundi digital set?


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## Oldhoosierdude

newyorkconversation said:


> the link doesn't seem to have survived the copy and paste (it got truncated in the middle)...


This should work. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByTWd_3f2RpST0h5SkxiQ3p2Ymc?usp=sharing


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## Oldhoosierdude

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Quote Originally Posted by Bill H. View Post
> Itullian--those are the later CD series of Cleveland Quartet recordings, with a change or two in the Quartet's personnel. The CQ also recorded a full Beethoven cycle starting in the 70s or so, but they were ONLY released on RCA LPs. They were never reissued in any format that I've been able to determine. Same for other rep they recorded for Victor.
> 
> As it turns out, my younger son Brian did his BS in Violin Performance at the New England Conservatory as a student of Donald Weilerstein, the Quartet's founding 1st Violin (and has continued some studies with him as an Artist Diploma student at Juilliard). Some years ago, we tracked down as many of the original Cleveland Q's RCA recordings that we could find, including the entire Beethoven cycle, and transferred them. Don had never heard the recordings himself, so we burned them all to CDs for him, and then made available the transfers to NEC students first, but now to anyone who wants them.
> 
> If you go to this link on my Google Docs, you'll find folders for all the early Cleveland Quartet RCA LP transfers we made, including the Beethoven Cycle (subdivided into folders for the Early, Middle and Late Quartets).
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mc?usp=sharing
> 
> These zipped files are in mp3 (320 kbps) format, essentially untouched sonically except for declicking and some LP noise reduction applied.
> 
> Anyone who might be interested, feel free. There's also Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Haydn, Dvorak, even some Ives!
> Bill H.
> 
> [Post edit: After we did these transfers, a website popped up that is the Cleveland Quartet's official historical site--including links to stream their early LP releases, so they are now "available" by other means] www.clevelandquartet.com
> 
> ________________
> 
> A copy and paste from another thread. Another poster made these available legal and free to download. The Cleveland Quartet from the 70's were reasonably well known and these recordings are long OOP. I have listened many times and they are well worth the effort.


A better link.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByTWd_3f2RpST0h5SkxiQ3p2Ymc?usp=sharing

There are a number of other recordings besides the BSQ's. All good.


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## RogerWaters

I've the Italiano, Tokyo (first), Vegh (stereo) and Tacaks sets. At the moment I prefer the Tacaks tight and vigorous approach, particularly in the early and middle quartets. Being in impeccable sound is also a plus.


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## Quartetfore

For some reason (old hands) I hit Unlike and then like for your post. In any case the Italiano recordings are my reference set.Ido have Tokyo Op. 59 set as well as some of the Takacs recordings. Beethoven seems to bring out the best of just about any group that records them.


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## mparta

Maybe it's a lack of something on my part, but so many good performances persuade me as I listen, I have trouble picking a favorite set.

There are individual performances that stand out in my memory, but just a few. The Guarneri Op. 59#1 hooked me, even though my first complete set to which I paid any attention was the Italiano. Which is still marvelous music making.

Probably have listened to the Alban Berg more than any other group for uniform excellence a la the Italians. I tried the Takacs, a little soft for my taste.

Then the 1940s Budapest Op. 132, slow movement, no one else in contention.

Has anyone heard this set? I'm still of two minds about this group. Rather astringent sometimes, which would have been my criticism of the Emerson but this more so. There's clarity and form, but a lot more bite than necessary.


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## mparta

And I bought one of the Danish quartets recordings on the basis of strong reviews (Gramophone?).
Expensive and not worth it. Op. 130 I think.


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## wkasimer

mparta said:


> Maybe it's a lack of something on my part, but so many good performances persuade me as I listen, I have trouble picking a favorite set.


No, it's not you. I have the same problem. It's the difference between music that is truly great and music that is merely good.


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## Merl

mparta said:


> Maybe
> 
> Has anyone heard this set? I'm still of two minds about this group. Rather astringent sometimes, which would have been my criticism of the Emerson but this more so. There's clarity and form, but a lot more bite than necessary.
> 
> View attachment 145701


I have the Cremona set and find it a fine one. They're neither heavy-handed nor too light and they play with beautiful intonation


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## Knorf

In thinking about this, I defer to someone like Merl whose taste I trust and who has listened to more Beethoven quartet cycles than I even dream of.

I suppose the easiest summation is a list of those I definitely liked, and those I didn't. Maybe there's a spot for mixed feelings as well. But there are SO MANY highly recommended sets I've never heard or haven't heard enough of to judge. I've heard far too little of the most recent cycles.

Definitely liked, in no particular order:

Emerson String Quartet 
Guarneri Quartet
Tokyo String Quartet (both, but prefer the later)
Quartetto Italiano

Mixed feelings, in no particular order:

Végh Quartet (digital cycle)
Juilliard String Quartet (digital cycle, but I feel that I should get to know the 60s cycle better)

Definitely disliked, in no particular order:

Lindsay String Quartet

Sets I'd like to get to know better, in no particular order:

Auryn Quartet
Berg Quartet
Busch Quartet
Cleveland Quartet (70s era only)
Fine Arts Quartet
Leipziger Streichquartett
Pražák Quartet
Quatuor Ébène
Takács Quartet

Drowning in possibilities!


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## vincula

I've got the Amadeus (DG) and the Berg (EMI) at home. Generally, I prefer the later. Got some Guarnieri, Italiano and Julliard on vinyl too -and probably some others too. Oh my oh my! I wouldn't mind having the Guarnieri box, if I had to add one to my collection. Time will tell. 

Regards,

Vincula


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## mparta

Hilarious on the Lindsays. Gramophone acknowledges their intonation problems, but loves them BECAUSE THEY'RE ENGLISH.

Things you can count on.


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## Knorf

I dislike the Lindsay Quartet cycle not only for their poor intonation, for but also for general sloppiness in many areas, and perhaps most of all for an ugly sound.


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## Burbage

I started on the Beethoven Quartets with one of the Talich releases, I have no idea which one, or why, but it'll probably have been whichever one had the 15/132 on it. It wasn't very long after CDs had become a thing, and I was living in a small town where everyone, one way or another, ended up sharing the tastes of their dealers, and the dealer in music had a very small shop.

And so, not least for that reason, I've happily enjoyed the Talich recordings for something north of a quarter of a century, and very nice they are, too. They might have their faults, but I couldn't say what they are, and I'm very comfortable with that, and so can warmly recommend them to anyone else who's been listening to them for 20-something years.

I'm sure there are more exciting recordings, but I'm not sure that's not because any recording that's unfamiliar is bound to be exciting, one way or another, whether through an altered perspective or (more often) the grinding of gears. I was sat upright recently by a recording of the 4th from the Emperor Quartet (on a mostly Beamish disk) entirely because it was different, whereas the reportedly passionate Takacs rendition almost entirely passed me by.

There is a fine line between music and performance, and it's (arguably) difficult to pay the same attention to both. And so I have to conclude that the best recorded cycle of Beethoven's String Quartets is the one I've listened to most. And the best recorded cycle of performances of Beethoven's String Quartets will be the one I haven't heard yet.

Which, as conclusions go, is annoying and opaque and probably a bit up itself. But that's Beethoven for you. And, for that matter, life.


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## wormcycle

I am not sure there is the best recording of Beethoven quartets:
- the most resolving, clear and exciting for sound quality is Cuarteto Casals and Harmonia Mundi. 
- Takac String Quartet and Quartetto Italiano for emotion and musicality
- Emerson String Quartet, probably technically best, the most balanced execution
- Alban Berg Quartet for virtuosity


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## perdido34

The Alexander String Quartet recorded the cycle twice. The second cycle, on the Foghorn label, is beautifully recorded. I like many performances of this cycle, but theirs ought to get more attention!


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## Merl

perdido34 said:


> The Alexander String Quartet recorded the cycle twice. The second cycle, on the Foghorn label, is beautifully recorded. I like many performances of this cycle, but theirs ought to get more attention!


It's well thought of here. It's certainly one of my favourite cycles.


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## annaw

perdido34 said:


> The Alexander String Quartet recorded the cycle twice. The second cycle, on the Foghorn label, is beautifully recorded. I like many performances of this cycle, but theirs ought to get more attention!


I finally started listening to their late quartets. I've really liked their recordings of both the early and middle quartets so far. I was also sampling the Leipziger's cycle recently, which is one of my favourite cycles. They sound very full and rich, and they manage to produce an almost organ-like sound in the Op. 132 slow 3rd movement, which is absolutely sublime.


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## Malx

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Alexanders first set?


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## Merl

Malx said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on the Alexanders first set?


It's also very good but the Foghorn one is better and more immediate. The original Arte Nova set is still an impressive one, though. Also, that first cycle pops up on one of those enormous Beethoven boxes on Brilliant, if I recall. I'll check.

Edit: Yep, it's on this set with the Zinman symphony cycle


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## Malx

Merl said:


> It's also very good but the Foghorn one is better and more immediate. The original Arte Nova set is still an impressive one, though. Also, that first cycle pops up on one of those enormous Beethoven boxes on Brilliant, if I recall. I'll check.
> 
> Edit: Yep, it's on this set with the Zinman symphony cycle
> View attachment 146694


I have that box set with the Alexanders in it but have never listened to the quartets as I bought the box for the Zinman symphonies - I got the box for less than the symphonies on their own at the time.
I'll have to break them out and give them a listen.


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## Itullian

Malx said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on the Alexanders first set?


I like it a lot.
Great sound


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## perdido34

Malx said:


> I have that box set with the Alexanders in it but have never listened to the quartets as I bought the box for the Zinman symphonies - I got the box for less than the symphonies on their own at the time.
> I'll have to break them out and give them a listen.


There are many fine recordings in that box, including not only the symphonies, but all of the concertos, the string quartets, and the string trios. Among the piano sonatas are fine performances by some people I'd never heard of (e.g., Yukio Yokoyama).


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## wormcycle

Changed my mind, I think that Quartetto Italiano set for Decca is the best


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## staxomega

I don't think I've posted mine to TC before, so here goes

Desert island picks:
Vegh (analog, stereo)
Budapest Quartet (mono, complete cycle on Columbia)

Other favorites:
Talich
Artemis (the best I heard in a more modern style)
Hungarian (mono)

Very good:
Italiano 
Alban Berg (analog)

Looking forward to:
Mosaiques completing their cycle, even if their late quartets a bit too congenial, the period tuning and instruments are interesting

Universally loved (especially by professional critics, and I get it Takacs are supremely talented with flawless intonation) but eludes me is Takacs' cycle. For me this is just skimming the surface interpretations, I don't hear anything really probing or deep. I was not over the moon about their second cycle of Bartok either but I like it more than the Beethoven cycle. I do like their first cycle of Bartok quite a bit. 

Of the Beethoven 2020 year releases Ebene were the best complete cycle I heard but I didn't feel an urge to immediately buy it and I still don't own it. They butched this in mastering by compressing the sound so everything sounds forward and in your face, a disservice to this great group. Kuss Quartet were uneven and eccentric. Casals' cycle was average, great performance of Piano Sonata 9 for string quartet. Not a new 2020 cycle but one that Melodiya reissued as part of Beethoven 2020 is the Beethoven Quartet, this is in my to listen to pile. 

Now the late quartets are where most of my focus is and there are many exceptional discs of them, some favorites without listing each piece - Busch Quartet (Biddulph have the best sounding transfers), Brentano, Hagen, etc. Would die to hear Arditti record them if their Grosse Fuge is anything to go by.


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## Helgi

staxomega said:


> Of the Beethoven 2020 year releases Ebene were the best complete cycle I heard but I didn't feel an urge to immediately buy it and I still don't own it. They butched this in mastering by compressing the sound so everything sounds forward and in your face, a disservice to this great group.


I saw an interview with two of the members where they said they wanted the music to really beat on your eardrum, or something to that effect, and that it does! So I think this is exactly what they wanted it to sound like.

I really enjoy it and find it exciting, but certainly not easy to listen to - I wouldn't want to be stuck on a desert island with it as my only option 

Here's the interview: https://www.thestrad.com/video/eben...ckdown-and-performing-beethoven/11039.article

Might need to register to see it.


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## starthrower

gardibolt said:


> The older set by Tokyo String Quartet is quite cheaply had and has quite good sound and excellent performances to boot.


I love the Tokyo RCA set! Gorgeous sound and great playing. I recently picked up Quatuor Ebene which is more closely mic'd but the sound is very good as is the playing. Recorded live around the world with no audience sound.


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## HenryPenfold

HenryPenfold said:


> For some reason I always come back to the Emersons. It also helps that I've seen them live. a few times in London.
> 
> But I also have the DG recordings of the Hagen Quartet which I recommend highly. And of course the Quartetto Italiano are indispensable.
> 
> I've been enjoying the Belcea Quartets cycle via streaming and I'm tempted to buy the set.


I've got over the impulse to buy the Belcea set, but I fancy a new Razumovsky Op.59. I wonder if The Quartetto Italiano have a set of those on their own (I don't want to buy a complete LvB StQt set).


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## mparta

So I bought one out of curiosity, then another out of curiosity, then found the whole set at less than the price of a couple more, so I splurged.

I'd be interested to hear what others think. The technique and intonation are very good but the tone and approach are fairly acidic and sometimes aggressive. I still like it enough to keep it as the set on my work computer but I think I would prefer many others for individual performances. I've dragged out my old Emerson set to rethink, they sound positively gemuetlich compared to these Italians


----------



## Merl

mparta said:


> View attachment 149173
> 
> 
> So I bought one out of curiosity, then another out of curiosity, then found the whole set at less than the price of a couple more, so I splurged.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what others think. The technique and intonation are very good but the tone and approach are fairly acidic and sometimes aggressive. I still like it enough to keep it as the set on my work computer but I think I would prefer many others for individual performances. I've dragged out my old Emerson set to rethink, they sound positively gemuetlich compared to these Italians


I think that like any Beethoven set there are some performances that fit with what we want to hear and others that don't. Putting down a consistently excellent Beethoven SQ cycle is very difficult and some quartets are better in certain quartets than in others. Like you, I have the Di Cremona set and there are certain performances that I like. I recently reviewed their performance of Beethoven's last quartet and found it highly enjoyable, noting that it was 'quirky, not for everyone, but thoroughly engaging.' Personally I rate some performances in this set but agree that it's one that can easily polarise opinions. If I was forking out on an Lvb cycle and I wanted a less quirky approach I'd play safe with the likes of the Alexanders. High quality, straightforward but classy. Keep the Di Cremona though. Who knows, in a few years you might change your mind on it.


----------



## Ekim the Insubordinate

My first introduction to these works was the Emerson's recording of the late quartets, and it never did anything for me. Then a friend lent me their Takacs' recording of the Razumovsky quartets, and suddenly it clicked. I picked that set up, along with the Decca recordings of the early and late quartets, and those have remained my go-to recordings. I've listened to other sets recommended around here, to see if I'm missing something, but I keep going back to the Takacs recording.


----------



## wkasimer

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> My first introduction to these works was the Emerson's recording of the late quartets, and it never did anything for me.


Starting with the late quartets is usually a mistake for most people. It was for me; I started out with the Yale Quartet's set of the late quartets, when it was the only cheap way to hear the Beethoven Quartets in decent sound. It took me many years to appreciate them - I'd have been better off starting with Op. 18 or 59.


----------



## Helgi

A beginning listener will see "Op. 18" and write it off as juvenilia — I certainly did and to my detriment as a listener of course


----------



## SanAntone

There is a new recording of the Op. 18 quartets by the Dover Quartet.

Beethoven Complete String Quartets, Volume I - The Opus 18 Quartets (2020)











> Many years ago, I had a conducting teacher, with whom I was taking a chamber music literature course, talk to me about the wide variety of styles and content of the Beethoven Quartets. I commented on the extreme difficulty of the late quartets, whereas he began to tell me of a conversation he had (he was a violinist) with a member of one of the famous quartets of the time (and I cannot remember which), sometime between 1940 and 1970. He had asked this person about the problems of the quartets, and which one his ensemble found the trickiest. Without hesitation, he looked at my teacher and said, "opus 18, number 1."
> 
> Any time a quartet ensemble attempts these works-and it seems the ones worth their salt all must have a go at them-they feel there is something new or particularly significant they bring to the table. If it is solely an ego trip, say just to prove that they have the mettle to present these works, failure is guaranteed. I know of many sets of the complete quartets that absolutely do not measure up, and no, I am not going to name them! But I will include this set under review as being among the best I have heard, any time or anywhere. There is a reason why the Dover Quartet has been so often compared to the legendary Guarneri. They may not have the burnished warmth of the Alban Berg, the incisive technical precision of the Emerson or the old Juilliard, or even the interpretative finesse of the Budapest. What they do have is a large enough slice of each of these musical pies to put together, at least in these first six, an extraordinary and intensely moving account of each. The Guarneri was known for the "rightness" of its interpretations-they had an instinctive sense of what the essence of any piece was about, and the ability to convey this to the fullest. by Audiophile Audition | Nov 18, 2020


I am listening to them now.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

wkasimer said:


> Starting with the late quartets is usually a mistake for most people. It was for me; I started out with the Yale Quartet's set of the late quartets, when it was the only cheap way to hear the Beethoven Quartets in decent sound. It took me many years to appreciate them - I'd have been better off starting with Op. 18 or 59.


Oddly enough, I actually connected very quickly with the Grosse Fuge. But yes, everything else didn't click. Now, though, it is the late quartets that I return to the most. The 15th in A Minor is one of my absolute favorites. And I still love that Grosse Fuge.


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## starthrower

For anyone that owns the Ebéne set I'm sure you've noticed that the music doesn't breathe but the mics are so close you can hear the musicians draw breath. It's a little creepy and I wish they had included a bit of room ambiance in the recordings. But despite this fact I still enjoy their superb playing.


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## ourskolpa

Ebène is very good but too polite for my taste. Belcea are very beautiful but I really love Prazak and Hagen. In the past and in a very beautiful sound Italiano are marvellous. And Fine Arts quartet of course.


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## Bruckner Anton

My current favorite is by Guarneri quartet. I would also recommend Italiano and Melos, both are excellent in terms of performance and recording. Amadeus is great in performance but in dry and harsh stereo sound. Takacs is in perfect sound, but their performanc is a bit rush and superficial for me.


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## annaw

I decided to start with another Beethoven string quartet cycle I haven't heard yet and chose Ebéne. I started from the middle quartets and the playing is so far utterly beautiful. I don't think I've heard another LvB string quartet recording with such a stunning sound. It allows every detail to be heard but it creates a certain kind of subtle and delicately fragile atmosphere. Makes me as a listener aware that one wrong note or bad intonation would ruin all its otherworldly beauty. That of course doesn't mean that any of Beethoven's characteristic muscularity is absent . In any case, interesting and exciting playing!

I'm so glad to be listening to Beethoven's string quartets again. I don't want to listen to them too frequently to keep them special.


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## Enthusiast

My earliest set was by the Talich Quartet. I still enjoy it greatly. I suppose the approach is quite an old fashioned one now. I have several other sets and probably rate those by the Alban Berg, Belcea, Borodin, Budapest, Italiano and Takacs Quartets most highly. I would need to remind myself of the set by the Vegh Quartet. I also consider the old Busch Quartet recordings of the late quartets to be absolutely essential. 

I find it interesting that so many here rate the Emerson Quartet set so highly as I never really found much in those recordings.


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## Kreisler jr

When the Emerson came out in the late 1990s it was the most brilliant of the "virtuoso modern" approaches (like Alban Berg, Guarneri, Cleveland...) Quartets have become so highly proficient since then that such blistering tempi, virtuosity are not special anymore. But on the flipside the Emersons had been considered "cold" since they came out, I believe.


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## Merl

Kreisler jr said:


> When the Emerson came out in the late 1990s it was the most brilliant of the "virtuoso modern" approaches (like Alban Berg, Guarneri, Cleveland...) Quartets have become so highly proficient since then that such blistering tempi, virtuosity are not special anymore. But on the flipside the Emersons had been considered "cold" since they came out, I believe.


I've always found the 'Emerson hate' a bit bewildering. This is a quartet that most people agree are technically very proficient, yet are often stereotyped as being 'cold' (see also Rattle 'micromanaging', HVK 'smooth', etc). As a set I'd have no problems recommending the Emersons in Beethoven (but there are few complete sets i wouldnt endorse, tbh). Is it the best or one of the best complete sets out there? Hard to generalise. What I will say is that in certain quartets the Emersons are very good indeed (listen to both of their accounts of the 16th SQ). Elsewhere they arent the finest but many ensembles arent either. The late quartets are possibly where many feel they are strongest and i'd partially agree with that assessment but again thats a generalisation. I think youre right, Kreisler, that the Emersons are now considered 'old new' but does that invalidate their approach? Well not for me. I suppose it depends what youre looking for. We all have our favourites but im finding the more I revisit others' performances the more i appreciate them. Truth is my tastes keep changing and I like to revisit. There is nothing worse than a fixed mindset, for me.


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## sasdwf

The 1952 Vegh Quartet recordings pulled me into the world of Beethoven quartets many years ago. I have since enjoyed many of the fine performances mentioned in this thread. Harder to go wrong than right in picking a cycle to listen to. Most recently I’ve enjoyed the Ebene and Cuarteto Casals recordings. 

I’ve a fondness for the Takacs recordings because I listened to them while reading member Edward Dusinberre’s enjoyable Beethoven for a Later Age.


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## wkasimer

Here's David Hurwitz's take on the best complete cycles:


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## Knorf

wkasimer said:


> Here's David Hurwitz's take on the best complete cycles:


That dilettante doesn't deserve a tithe of the attention he receives. He helps propagate so much of what are the worst and most harmful anti-musical, anti-artistic tendencies, among a certain prevalent class of classical music afficionados.


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## Kreisler jr

Knorf said:


> He helps propagate so much of what are the worst and most harmful anti-musical, anti-artistic tendencies, among a certain prevalent class of classical music afficionados.


Could you be a bit more specific about which tendencies you mean?


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## Knorf

Kreisler jr said:


> Could you be a bit more specific about which tendencies you mean?


There's a whole thread abiut the massive problems with Hurwitz. I'm not going to derail this thread, but if you're truly interested, it's a pretty exhaustive discussion. Short answer: his obsession with "The BEST," with himself as arbiter or the BEST, of course.
Hurwitz's YouTube channel - your thoughts?


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> There's a whole thread abiut the massive problems with Hurwitz. I'm not going to derail this thread, but if you're truly interested, it's a pretty exhaustive discussion. Short answer: his obsession with "The BEST," with himself as arbiter or the BEST, of course.


You obviously didn't bother to watch this particular podcast. He highlights not one, not two, but sixteen favorite sets, and quite an interesting mixture of older and newer traversals.


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## Knorf

wkasimer said:


> You obviously didn't bother to watch this particular podcast.


Of course not! I've had my fill of his blather.


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> Of course not! I've had my fill of his blather.


Then you should feel free not to participate in a discussion of this video.

Personally, I have a rule that I never criticize anything that I haven't heard, watched, or read myself.


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## Knorf

wkasimer said:


> Then you should feel free not to participate in a discussion of this video.


Or, I should feel free to participate because I have heard, seen, and read plenty enough from him to justify my opinion.


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## Enthusiast

Are the Emersons' performances cold? I certainly find some of their recordings dry (which may be my word for cold). I am a little disturbed when my subjective view is pigeonholed as belonging to a misguided group who have a biased and wrong impression. The same sort of criticism gets thrown at anyone who dares to dislike a Karajan recording. Maybe there are listeners out there who are just jumping on a bandwagon but I feel most of us are just saying what we do and do not like. Mostly that is what we discuss but there seem to be a few performers who if you don't like them it can only be because your mind is closed. I think I am as adventurous as anyone and only too willing to give any well-liked recording a second and third chance.


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## Knorf

I personally like the Emerson Quartet's Beethoven quite a lot, and can't find sympathy with describing any of it as "cold." I've met the members of the Emerson Quartet in person numerous times (but not the current cellist,) and there is no denying that they deeply love and are utterly devoted to the Beethoven quartets, as well as anything they undertake. 

Not every quartet in the Emerson Beethoven set is necessarily my favorite, but I enjoy it all very much, especially both of their versions of Op. 135, as Merl mentioned above. I also really like their Op. 16s. In any case, none of it disappoints.


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## Guest

I don't know about hot vs cold, but the Emerson Quartet recordings sometimes strike me as having ensemble that is too well integrated, so that individual voices don't stand out. Both their style of performance and the engineering of their recordings may have an effect.


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