# Hans Knappertsbush's Wagner Recordings



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Hello dear Wagnerians. Of all Knapp's Wagner recordings i have this









I also have this Brahms and Bruckner and i know it's irrelevant to the topic








Now, i've been desperately thinking about buying his other Wagner recordings. I know he did a Dutchman(Varnay and Windgassen), Ring , Meisteringer, and two Parsifals with the one i already mentioned ( or more?). 
So what would you,those of you who have listened to these, recommend? Which one of these is an essential? How's the sound quality of the performances? Have they been remastered? Is his Ring better than, for example, Keilberth's 55 or Solti's ? Basically, tell me whatever you know


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

The sound quality varies somewhat, but none are really bad. The best tend to be the Orfeo releases (Dutchman and Meistersinger on Orfeo are two that are essential IMO).

















Kna is heard best in his many Parsifal recordings (I have three and have also considered the one you have). I would say the two essential ones here are his final recording on Orfeo, with wonderful sound and an excellent cast and the one from 1952 (the year after the more famous 1951). The 1952 captures a better performance, but isn't as well known as the one from the year before as that was recorded for commercial release. It is available on a couple of labels in early fifties German radio sound.









N.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

I fully support the Conte's wise comments. A few brief comments of my own:

*Dutchman.* One Kna recording has been preserved (Bayreuth 1955). Same cast as Keilberth's Decca recording--quite possibly, on balance, the finest cast ever assembled in this work (Uhde, Varnay, Weber, Windgassen, Traxel). Kna's conducting is generally felt to be more vibrant than Keilberth's, and Varnay was certainly in better voice for Kna. Excellent mono sound, esp in the Orfeo release.

*Tannhäuser.* I don't think any Kna performance has been preserved.

*Lohengrin.* A 1963 Kna performance (Bavarian State Opera) has been issued by Orfeo. The title role isn't ideally cast (Hopf), but the other leads are strong (Bjoner, Varnay, Metternich). Mainly of interest to those who want to hear Knappertsbusch in every possible opera!

*Tristan.* A 1950 Kna performance is available on several labels (best sound that I've heard is on Orfeo). This is a real sleeper. The cast doesn't look over-enticing (Treptow & Braun, with her real-life husband Frantz as Marke!) but they are all in surprisingly good form and, as a result, the performance is commonly judged one of the very finest _Tristans_ on record (see, e.g., the discussion in _Opera on Record_, ed. Alan Blyth, which names Treptow as one of the 3 best Tristans on record, and Braun as one of the 3 best Isoldes). I wouldn't choose this as the only Tristan for my shelves; but if I wanted to keep only 4 or 5 Tristans, this would definitely be one of them (alongside Beecham, Furtwängler, Böhm...).









*Meistersinger.* I personally support 100% the Conte's praise of the 1960 Bayreuth performance, but I'm aware that not everyone shares my love of Greindl in the central role! A less controversial recommendation here would be the classic 1950-1951 Decca studio recording with Schöffler (who, as Jeeves says about Shakespeare, "has given general satisfaction") in the role. Typical fine early 50s Decca mono sound quality.









*Ring.* Three complete Kna Rings have been preserved (Bayreuth 1956-1958). Overall 1956 has the finest cast, overall perhaps as good as any ever recorded in a complete Ring (Hotter, Varnay, Windgassen, Neidlinger throughout in the 4 main roles). Excellent sound in Orfeo's transfer.









The 1957 cast is decidedly inferior in _Siegfried_ (Aldenhoff replaced Windgassen that night), and the 1958 cast is somewhat inferior in the three parts where Alberich appears (Andersson instead of Neidlinger). However, I strongly admire the 1958 Walküre (with Vickers & Rysanek as the twins) and the 1957 Götterdämmerung (with Uhde & Grümmer incomparable as brother & sister). When I play Kna's Ring, I usually choose those two, going to 1956 for the other two parts. The Music & Arts transfer of 1957 has excellent full mono sound; Walhall's 1958 is serviceable & undistracting, but probably not the best that could be achieved with this material.

















*Parsifal.* Again I agree with the Conte about the excellence of Kna's 1952 and 1964 recordings. 1952 has surely the most detailed & nuanced all-round Kundry on record (Modl) with very strong support (esp from Windgassen); 1964 has Vickers & Hotter superb in the two main male roles. However you already have the excellent 1951 set and therefore may not want 1952 as well (the casts are virtually identical). I would also strongly recommend the 1963 recording, with Windgassen, Hotter, and a better Kundry than 1964 (Dalis), but it hasn't yet had a decent commercial release. (Afterthought: I believe Opera Depot may offer a very serviceable CD transfer of 1963.)

To summarize: Knappertsbusch & Keilberth were the 2 favored conductors at Bayreuth during the peak phase of postwar Wagner singing, so _on average_ their recorded performances tend to have more evenly high-quality casts than other conductors'. Of the two, Kna was of course much the more vibrant conductor. The original masters of nearly all live Bayreuth recordings of the period have been well preserved and are in fuller, more detailed sound than one might expect; in particular, the beautiful _acoustics_ of the house are well caught.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Ned Low said:


> I also have this Brahms and Bruckner and i know it's irrelevant to the topic


I'll add, equally irrelevantly, that Knappertsbusch performances of Beethoven 2-8 have been preserved, and they are of comparable quality to his Brahms & Bruckner! Maybe, if Profil's Brahms/Bruckner set sells well enough, they might issue a sequel...??


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Naturally, when it comes to Parsifal, you can't help but think of Knappertsbusch. I've listened to at least 2 recordings for each Wagner opera but i've only listened to Boulez for Parsifal so far, which you might argue wasn't a good decision. But i have to say the music was so perfect , even though I didn't understand what was happening, i fell in love with Parsifal and hopefully Knap can surely impress me more than Boulez did.(I have some Parsifals which i haven't listened to yet :Karajan, Levine,Solti, Goodall, Kraus. )Therefore, i thought i had to start listening to those Parsifal must-listen/must-have recordings. And just looking at the names of the singers is enough to get you overexcited. Hotter back then in his prime( unlike his Solti Ring) and Vickers( I wonder if he's better than Jess Thomas or not). 
I didn't know Knap recorded other Wagner's operas untill you guys mentioned his performances. (You know, Knap is generally associated with Parsifal)...And boy look the cast of his Dutchman. Weber, Varnay, Windgassen, Uhde.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

gvn said:


> I'll add, equally irrelevantly, that Knappertsbusch performances of Beethoven 2-8 have been preserved, and they are of comparable quality to his Brahms & Bruckner! Maybe, if Profil's Brahms/Bruckner set sells well enough, they might issue a sequel...??


 I haven't listened to his Beethoven yet, but i love his Bruckner especially his 9th.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Ned Low said:


> i fell in love with Parsifal and hopefully Knap can surely impress me more than Boulez did.(I have some Parsifals which i haven't listened to yet :Karajan, Levine,Solti, Goodall, Kraus. )


I think Boulez himself, in later life, felt that his Parsifal was too inflexible. Even so, I wouldn't ignore it altogether; despite its dryness, it _may_ possibly be our best chance to hear Parsifal at the tempos that Wagner himself preferred. (Wagner complained repeatedly about the first conductor's tendency to pace the work too slowly--and the documented timings of that conductor's performances look fairly average by 20th-century standards.)

I wish one of Böhm's performances of Parsifal had been recorded. He would have been just as fleet-footed as Boulez, but not so hard-driven, and the poetry in the music would have been able to breathe.

A work like Parsifal is so many-sided, so rich in suggestions and possibilities, that a great diversity of approaches can each shed different lights on it. In fact, I'd say that with the recordings you mention (Boulez at one tempo extreme, Goodall at the other, Solti for drama, Karajan for sheer beauty, Knappertsbusch for the wisdom of a lifetime, etc.), you have a pretty well-balanced range of approaches covered!



Ned Low said:


> I haven't listened to his Beethoven yet.


At the moment it's strewn across a great diversity of labels, often in poor-quality bootlegs. I'd be inclined to wait and see if Profil or some other reputable company brings together a good box set of it.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There are some excellent comments here (not least gvn's comprehensive remarks about the Kna Rings). I'd like to add a note about the sound quality in the three available sets. Orfeo has only released the 1956 performances (probably due to the classic cast), but that is the cycle with the worst sound and it is decidedly muddy, there is much more clarity in the 1957 and 58 sets which are available on Walhall. I listened to all three and compared. Varnay is best in 57, although the 56 has the best cast overall. The 58 has a few changes of cast not heard in earlier Bayreuth sets and whilst the replacements (other than Vickers and Gorr) aren't quite as good as on the 56, they aren't far behind and the 58 is still a very good set. Add the fact that the sound is so dim on the 1956 and the I went with the 58. Many prefer to mix and match between the three sets.

N.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

> I wish one of Böhm's performances of Parsifal had been recorded. He would have been just as fleet-footed as Boulez, but not so hard-driven, and the poetry in the music would have been able to breathe


.

Indeed. I'm curious as well. Well, Bohm's Trsitan und Isolde, in my opinion, is a little bit too fast, too rushed in the third act.( should i say that makes his performance unbalanced?) I don't know how his Parsifal would be had it been recorded.



> A work like Parsifal is so many-sided, so rich in suggestions and possibilities, that a great diversity of approaches can each shed different lights on it. In fact, I'd say that with the recordings you mention (Boulez at one tempo extreme, Goodall at the other, Solti for drama, Karajan for sheer beauty, Knappertsbusch for the wisdom of a lifetime, etc.), you have a pretty well-balanced range of approaches covered!


An acquaintance of mine highly recommended Karajan months ago. He loved it so much. I hope i'll like it as much as he did when i listen to it.

Speaking of Goodall, isn't his Parsifal the longest recorded Parsifal ever? It's apparently longer than Knap. I've listened to his Ring and i wasn't bothered by his tempo. I don't care for tempo so long as the performance is good. In fact, i love his Die Walkure and Sigfried alot. Not only do i find his conducting satisfactory but i admire his cast as well.Norman Bailey is an amazing Wotan in all of the ring, particularly in Die Walkure and i'm a big fan of Alberto Remedios. So wild and strong...Maybe his Parsifal is as good as his Ring. I have to give it a try( i don't know how good his singers are in Parsifal)


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

The Conte said:


> There are some excellent comments here (not least gvn's comprehensive remarks about the Kna Rings). I'd like to add a note about the sound quality in the three available sets. Orfeo has only released the 1956 performances (probably due to the classic cast), but that is the cycle with the worst sound and it is decidedly muddy, there is much more clarity in the 1957 and 58 sets which are available on Walhall. I listened to all three and compared. Varnay is best in 57, although the 56 has the best cast overall. The 58 has a few changes of cast not heard in earlier Bayreuth sets and whilst the replacements (other than Vickers and Gorr) aren't quite as good as on the 56, they aren't far behind and the 58 is still a very good set. Add the fact that the sound is so dim on the 1956 and the I went with the 58. Many prefer to mix and match between the three sets.
> 
> N.


I see. I don't think i'm able to buy all of his three Ring Cycles right now. If the sound quality of the first Ring is that bad, i might go for either the 1957 or the 1958.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Ned Low said:


> .
> 
> Speaking of Goodall, isn't his Parsifal the longest recorded Parsifal ever? It's apparently longer than Knap... Maybe his Parsifal is as good as his Ring. I have to give it a try( i don't know how good his singers are in Parsifal)


I like Goodall's (EMI) Parsifal, with the Welsh National Opera. I saw the production in the theatre, so that might make me a tad biased, but I'd still say it's one of the best. The chorus is great and the cast is strong, with the vigorous, fresh-voiced Warren Ellsworth as Parsifal; Ellsworth was only 34 when this recording was made, and died tragically young about 10 years later. I'm only glad that his Parsifal has been preserved for posterity, as I saw him sing the role many times in Wales and London.

Goodall has a young Waltraud Meier as Kundry, Donald McIntyre is an intelligent Gurnemanz, and the relatively unheralded Nicholas Folwell - a splendid Alberich in his day - makes a fine Klingsor. The only slight problem is Philip Joll as Amfortas, who sometimes struggles with Goodall's broad tempos; I like his sensitive and sympathetic portrayal nonetheless (ditto his Kurwenal on Goodall's superb recording of Tristan).

Goodall does indeed take longer than Knappertsbusch usually did, but IMHO this is an excellent account of Parsifal, nicely captured in good digital sound by the EMI engineers.

There is a live 1971 recording of Goodall's Parsifal with the Royal Opera available, but although it has some fine singers (Vickers, Bailey, McIntyre, and Kiri Te Kanawa as a Flowermaiden!), it's not as good a rendition as you'll hear on the EMI/WNO set, and the sound isn't exactly brilliant.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

> Goodall does indeed take longer than Knappertsbusch usually did, but IMHO this is an excellent account of Parsifal, nicely captured in good digital sound by the EMI engineers.


I see. It seems Goodall revered old Knap.



> There is a live 1971 recording of Goodall's Parsifal with the Royal Opera available, but although it has some fine singers (Vickers, Bailey, McIntyre, and Kiri Te Kanawa as a Flowermaiden!), it's not as good a rendition as you'll hear on the EMI/WNO set, and the sound isn't exactly brilliant


.

I just checked it and it seems that i have the one with Vickers and Norman Bailey. Never knew Goodall had two Parsifals otherwise i would've gone for the one you mentioned.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

gvn said:


> *Ring.* Three complete Kna Rings have been preserved (Bayreuth 1956-1958). Overall 1956 has the finest cast, overall perhaps as good as any ever recorded in a complete Ring (Hotter, Varnay, Windgassen, Neidlinger throughout in the 4 main roles). Excellent sound in Orfeo's transfer.
> 
> View attachment 145422


Has anyone compared the sonics of the 1956 cycle with the release on M&A?:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Ned Low said:


> I see. I don't think i'm able to buy all of his three Ring Cycles right now. If the sound quality of the first Ring is that bad, i might go for either the 1957 or the 1958.


I think all three are on YouTube in some form, so you can always sample them there. The '56 sound isn't as bad as some live fifties recordings, but I found the general dullness of the sound difficult to listen to. Also, if you have any of the Keilberth or Krauss Rings then you will already have most of the cast on those.

N.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

The following Japanese import Wagner CD is one of my 'desert island' Knappertsbusch recordings:

https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Hans-...65Q3VSWZ3H2&psc=1&refRID=XJY4BEG5Z65Q3VSWZ3H2

Otherwise, I would caution you about sound quality. The 1962 Parsifal from Bayreuth (released in 1964 by Philips--it's the one that you own) has excellent sound, but many of Kna's other Wagner recordings don't. So, make sure that you sample them first, in order to know exactly what you're purchasing, & whether you're okay with the recorded sound or not. With that said, you should know that some listeners prefer Kna's earlier 1951 Parsifal to his later 1962 recording. As for myself, I prefer the better sound quality of the Philips recording essentially because I like to hear as much of Wagner's score as possible.

In addition to the Orfeo recordings, you might also look into the Knappertsbusch series issued by the Australian Eloquence label. As others have mentioned, they've released Kna's former Decca recordings of Wagner's "Die Meistersinger Von Nurnburg" from the Vienna State Opera (with the Vienna Philharmonic): https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8188726--wagner-die-meistersinger-von-nurnberg, parts of the Ring Cycle, and a recording that brings together most, if not all, of his Wagner orchestral recordings for Decca (including the music on the Japanese disc that I recommended above, & much more, such as his "Siegfried Idyll"): https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8031188--hans-knappertsbusch-conducts-wagner.

https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Die-M...busch+eloquence&qid=1604542563&s=music&sr=1-3

(By the way, Australian Eloquence has also reissued a Decca recording of Tristan und Isolde by Knappertsbusch's former assistant, Sir Reginald Goodall, with the Welsh National Opera. If you can get past Goodall's very ugly political views... he was an exceptional Wagner conductor. It was the first "digital" Tristan to be recorded in the early 1980s: https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Trist...n+und+isolde+goodall+eloquence&s=music&sr=1-1, and interpretatively, it makes an excellent compliment to Carlos Kleiber's very different '2nd digital' Tristan from the 80s with the Staatskapelle Dresden, who were a phenomenal Wagner orchestra in those days and essential listening, IMO (after all, historically, the Staatskapelle was once Wagner's orchestra, & even in the 1980s, they had maintained a great tradition of playing his music. They're also more consistently in tune than most other Wagner orchestras you'll hear, which counts for a lot in this music, in my view: 



 and 



)

I agree with others that as a Wagner conductor Knappertsbusch is best heard in Parsifal. However, I wouldn't want to be without his conducting of Tristan und Isolde, either--despite the lesser sound quality, but it certainly shouldn't be your only recording of this great opera:

https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Trist...+wagner+tristan&qid=1604543788&s=music&sr=1-3
https://www.amazon.com/Tristan-Isol...+knappertsbusch&qid=1604543221&s=music&sr=1-1 
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7957334--wagner-tristan-und-isolde)

In addition to Knappertsbusch, my other favorite Wagner conductors from that period are Eugen Jochum and Rudolf Kempe. Rafael Kubelik was another excellent Wagner conductor, as was Wolfgang Sawallisch ...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

The ‘64 Bayreuth Kna Parsifal with Vickers is also worth a punt.

Oh, I see I was beaten to the punch by gvn in an earlier post.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Barbebleu said:


> The '64 Bayreuth Kna Parsifal with Vickers is also worth a punt.
> 
> Oh, I see I was beaten to the punch by gvn in an earlier post.


Hope it's not too off-topic but how is Hotter's voice in the 1964 recording? About the same as in the 1962 Kna Parsifal?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

annaw said:


> Hope it's not too off-topic but how is Hotter's voice in the 1964 recording? About the same as in the 1962 Kna Parsifal?


I can't remember. I'd need to listen to the two of them again.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Josquin13 said:


> The following Japanese import Wagner CD is one of my 'desert island' Knappertsbusch recordings:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Hans-...65Q3VSWZ3H2&psc=1&refRID=XJY4BEG5Z65Q3VSWZ3H2
> 
> ...


Yes i have his Tristan, his English Ring and Meistersinger, and one of his Parsifals.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

annaw said:


> Hope it's not too off-topic but how is Hotter's voice in the 1964 recording? About the same as in the 1962 Kna Parsifal?


Pretty similar vocal condition. The role suits him well, as it rarely taxes the extremes of his range.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

annaw said:


> Hope it's not too off-topic but how is Hotter's voice in the 1964 recording? About the same as in the 1962 Kna Parsifal?


I came too late and desisted of making a comment of this thread, but as an answer to your question, much more unpleasant for me. 1961 and 1962 are his best efforts.

Out of the Kna Wagner recordings, I'd recommend any but his only _Lohengrin_ and _Tristan_ in Bavarian State Opera. Sadly because of uneven or unpleasant casting choices.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Ned Low said:


> Speaking of Goodall, isn't his Parsifal the longest recorded Parsifal ever? It's apparently longer than Knap. I've listened to his Ring and i wasn't bothered by his tempo. I don't care for tempo so long as the performance is good.


A couple of years ago I noted the timings of all the Wagner sets on my shelves. Here are the Parsifals:

218 min.: Pierre Boulez, Bayreuth, staged, 1970
219 min.: Eugen Jochum, Bayreuth, staged, 1973
220 min.: Pierre Boulez, Bayreuth, staged, 1967
221 min.: Herbert Kegel, Leipzig, concert, 1975
226 min.: Marek Janowski, Berlin, concert, 2011
229 min.: Pierre Boulez, Bayreuth, staged, 1966
235 min.: Clemens Krauss, Bayreuth, staged, 1953
245 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1960
247 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1959
249 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1958
250 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1962
250 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1964
252 min.: Rafael Kubelik, Berlin, concert, 1980
256 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1957
256 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1961
256 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1963
256 min.: Daniel Barenboim, Teldec, studio, 1989-1990
257 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1956
257 min.: Herbert von Karajan, DG, studio, 1980
261 min.: Georg Solti, Decca, studio, 1971-1972
263 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1952
268 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1954
270 min: Reginald Goodall, EMI, studio, 1984
273 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Bayreuth, staged, 1951
283 min.: Reginald Goodall, staged, 1971

I didn't count abridged sets (e.g., Stiedry, 1954). Many of the sets include a few bits of applause, but in none of the above cases would that affect the timing by more than a minute at most.

Quite a lot of _excerpts_ conducted by Knappertsbusch were recorded between 1928 and about 1944, and all of them have fairly moderate tempos, comparable to his 1962 and 1964 recordings. So the 1951 performance wasn't typical of his work at any stage of his career. That was a very special event (the first Bayreuth festival after the war), and I imagine he wanted to give it a specially monumental weight to mark the occasion.

Of course, overall timing isn't everything. Krauss (because he speeds up & slows down conspicuously) _seems_ faster than Janowski, who maintains a fairly steady brisk tempo but with little touches of rubato everywhere (giving the impression that he has plenty of time to look around and admire the view).

And I absolutely agree with you: if the cast is strong and the conducting has heart, I personally don't care if it's fast, slow, or right in the middle!


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

wkasimer said:


> > Originally posted by *annaw*
> > Hope it's not too off-topic but how is Hotter's voice in the 1964 recording? About the same as in the 1962 Kna Parsifal?
> 
> 
> Pretty similar vocal condition. The role suits him well, as it rarely taxes the extremes of his range.





Granate said:


> much more unpleasant for me. 1961 and 1962 are his best efforts.


Who shall decide when doctors disagree? In view of this discrepancy, I got down all my Hotter Parsifals (1954 Met; 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 Bayreuth) from the shelves and did detailed A/B comparisons in various stages of both Act I and Act III. And I agree with both of you!

As regards Hotter's _wobble_ (which, as we all know, fluctuated from night to night) I agree with wkasimer. There's very little difference between 1962 and 1964. If anything, in fact, it's a shade looser in 1962. In 1962 it's more noticeable on sustained notes even when he isn't putting pressure on the voice (e.g. "so jammervoll" in the second line of Act III). In 1964 that degree of vibrato only tends to appear when the voice is under pressure. But it's a very tiny difference.

On the nights when he was recorded in 1961 and 1963, his voice was in decidedly better shape. And he knew it, too. Listen to the start of "O wunden-wundervoller heiliger Speer." In 1962 he knew from the moment he opened his mouth that he was going to have difficulties with it, and he did. In 1963 he approached it much more confidently, and with distinctly better results.

(Afterthought: I think the 1961, 1963, and 1964 performances were all first nights, whereas 1962 was spliced together from various performances during the run. That might partly account for the slightly greater wobble in 1962.)

But the differences are very slight. I doubt whether most listeners would even notice them except on direct comparison.

As regards the basic _timbre_ of the voice, I agree with Granate. His voice is distinctly fresher in 1961-1963 (not much difference from year to year) than in 1964, when you start to hear the surface wear familiar from Solti's Walküre. His tone color has lost some of its great beauty, and he's starting to sound like an _old_ man. (Of course, there's no reason why Gurnemanz needs to have beautiful tone, or why he couldn't sound like an old man!)

Still, in practice, I suspect _most_ listeners who like Hotter would like all of these performances, whereas those who can't stand the sound of it wouldn't tolerate any!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Kna is often thought of as a "slow" conductor, a reputation based largely on his first _Parsifal,_ the 1951, that one having been the only complete recording before Philips' release of the much quicker 1962 performance. Kna did sometimes prefer speeds on the slow side, and IMO no one has ever been more effective at making music live and breathe regardless of tempo, and of building climaxes of crushing weight and power at gradual tempi (the orchestral interlude in Wotan's farewell comes immediately to mind - magnificent and incomparable). But it's interesting to note that in his _Parsifal_ performances from the 1960s his overall timings are more or less identical to those of Hermann Levi, Wagner's chosen interpreter for the opera's premiere.

https://www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm

A Levi performance clocked in at 4:04, while Kna in 1962 took 4:10. Boulez in 1970 took a full half-hour less, so it's hardly accurate to say that he (or Herbert Kegel, another speed demon) gets us closer to Wagner's own preferences. As for what Wagner himself would have done, we have timings for two of the composer's renditions of the _Parsifal_ prelude, and they are not only different from each other but are both on the slower side of average. More evidence is provided in the story that when Wagner took the baton from Levi to conduct the final scene at Bayreuth, his tempi were slow enough to tax the breath of the singers.

My own feeling is that Wagner's supposed preference for fast tempi amounted essentially to a simple aversion to dragging, which was probably a common tendency among musicians when first confronted with the harmonically rich and weighty textures of his music. If a conductor maintains flow, momentum and shape, almost any music permits a range of tempi, and composers don't usually have rigid requirements. It's interesting to note that Wagner experimented with metronome markings early on, but found them straightjacketing and removed them.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

> Kna is often thought of as a "slow" conductor, a reputation based largely on his first _Parsifal,_ the 1951, that one having been the only complete recording before Philips' release of the much quicker 1962 performance. Kna did sometimes prefer speeds on the slow side, and IMO no one has ever been more effective at making music live and breathe regardless of tempo, and of building climaxes of crushing weight and power at gradual tempi (the orchestral interlude in Wotan's farewell comes immediately to mind - magnificent and incomparable). But it's interesting to note that in his _Parsifal_ performances from the 1960s his overall timings are more or less identical to those of Hermann Levi, Wagner's chosen interpreter for the opera's premiere.


 As our friend here on TC highly recommended his Dutchman, i thought about listening to it before ordering it. And when i listened to it on YouTube, i was blown away ; it was like watching a film clearly projected in front of my eyes. It enabled me to imagine this dramatic opera in a way i've never done before.( well that's Wagner does ; he gives you a wolrd to explore!). I don't know what will happen when i listen to his Parsifal(s)!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Ned Low said:


> As our friend here on TC highly recommended his Dutchman, i thought about listening to it before ordering it. And when i listened to it on YouTube, i was blown away ; it was like watching a film clearly projected in front of my eyes. It enabled me to imagine this dramatic opera in a way i've never done before.( well that's Wagner does ; he gives you a wolrd to explore!).* I don't know what will happen when i listen to his Parsifal(s)!*


What will happen is that your spirit's breath will synchronize with the rhythm of music-making so natural, uncalculated and organismic that you will become, for four and a quarter hours, a higher life form.

Many conductors perform _Parsifal_ respectably. Knappertsbusch releases it and lets it perform itself. Not for one moment in his 1962 recording (the best of his recordings sonically) does one detail of interpretation draw attention to itself, and thus to the conductor's presence. Kna understands the music so well, and respects it so totally, that he can humbly disappear behind it and let it be what it knows how to be. I take this to be the (elusive) goal of every truly great musician.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Ned Low said:


> I see. It seems Goodall revered old Knap.
> 
> .
> Didn't Goodall work in Bayreuth as an assistant to old Kna?


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

gvn said:


> A couple of years ago I noted the timings of all the Wagner sets on my shelves. Here are the Parsifals:
> 
> 218 min.: Pierre Boulez, Bayreuth, staged, 1970
> 219 min.: Eugen Jochum, Bayreuth, staged, 1973
> ...


How about James Levine? I've heard he's the slowest of the lot.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

This is worth a listen.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

*Tristan.* A 1950 Kna performance is available on several labels (best sound that I've heard is on Orfeo). This is a real sleeper. The cast doesn't look over-enticing (Treptow & Braun, with her real-life husband Frantz as Marke!) but they are all in surprisingly good form and, as a result, the performance is commonly judged one of the very finest _Tristans_ on record (see, e.g., the discussion in _Opera on Record_, ed. Alan Blyth, which names Treptow as one of the 3 best Tristans on record, and Braun as one of the 3 best Isoldes). I wouldn't choose this as the only Tristan for my shelves; but if I wanted to keep only 4 or 5 Tristans, this would definitely be one of them (alongside Beecham, Furtwängler, Böhm...).

View attachment 145420


I actually listened to the Tristan today. It was wonderful.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

damianjb1 said:


> How about James Levine? I've heard he's the slowest of the lot.


I happen to have Levine's 1985 Bayreuth Parsifal within arm's reach. Total time is 278:10.

I attended one of Levine's Parsifals back in the early 90's at the Met. It was indeed very, very slow. I don't have timings at hand, but I believe that his later performances of the opera were at least somewhat faster.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

damianjb1 said:


> *Tristan.* A 1950 Kna performance is available on several labels (best sound that I've heard is on Orfeo). This is a real sleeper. The cast doesn't look over-enticing (Treptow & Braun, with her real-life husband Frantz as Marke!) but they are all in surprisingly good form and, as a result, the performance is commonly judged one of the very finest _Tristans_ on record (see, e.g., the discussion in _Opera on Record_, ed. Alan Blyth, which names Treptow as one of the 3 best Tristans on record, and Braun as one of the 3 best Isoldes). I wouldn't choose this as the only Tristan for my shelves; but if I wanted to keep only 4 or 5 Tristans, this would definitely be one of them (alongside Beecham, Furtwängler, Böhm...).
> 
> View attachment 145420
> 
> ...


Now i'm tempted to buy this one!


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Ned Low said:


> Now i'm tempted to buy this one!


You might want to sample the voices first. Both Treptow & Braun had strong, clear, healthy-sounding voices but with very little sensuality in the tone-color, which will trouble some listeners more than others. On the other hand, the acting (from _all_ the principals) is absolutely first-rate. Treptow seems totally inside his role in Act 3, which I think is the most difficult piece of acting in the whole of Wagner, as Tristan drifts in & out of delirium. I don't know that I've ever heard any tenor perform the role so spontaneously; never once, in the entire scene, do you catch him Acting with a capital A. I suspect it was one of those rare nights when everything on stage just clicked, and the whole cast caught fire from each other.

It's interesting to observe that this is one of the _faster_ recorded _Tristans_.

219 min.: Karl Böhm, Bayreuth, staged, 1966
228 min.: Hans Knappertsbusch, Munich, staged, 1950
228 min.: Eugen Jochum, Bayreuth, staged, 1953
229 min.: Herbert von Karajan, Bayreuth, staged, 1952
234 min.: Carlos Kleiber, DG, studio, 1980-1982
240 min.: Georg Solti, Decca, studio, 1960 
246 min.: Herbert von Karajan, EMI, studio, 1971-1972
256 min.: Wilhelm Furtwängler, EMI, studio, 1952
266 min.: Leonard Bernstein, Munich, concerts, 1981

Was that Knappertsbusch's usual approach to this opera, or did he too get swept up in the general enthusiasm?

Sound quality also might require checking. Of course it isn't as good as a Bayreuth recording a few years later, but it's still pretty good for the period (much much better than, e.g., live recordings with Callas at La Scala even 10 years later). Everybody is always on mike, and all the crucial orchestral details can be heard clearly. I personally don't find it distracting at all, but I'm sure other ears may respond differently.


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