# Beethoven - Op. 60 - Symphony No. 4



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece?

Here below:
Director: Leonard Bernstein
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Live Recording, Vienna, November 1978


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Good, smack in the middle of the nine in terms of preference for me.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I like this symphony a lot and I voted excellent. I like every movement. Has anyone noticed that the 3rd movement of this symphony is very similar to the 3rd movement of the 7th? In terms of recordings my favourite is a live one, Kleiber/Bavarian state orchestra. Others that I like are Bernstein/NYPO and for a historical one, Toscanini/NBC symphony orchestra


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted excellent, Bernstein is a good one, his Sony also good.
I do not listen to conductors I don't like.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Excellent, and as Beethoven symphonies go (relatively) under-rated. The even numbered symphonies don't get the same attention as their "odd" bretheren. They are all superb masterpieces.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

The violin concerto, Op. 61, dates from the same period, but the fourth symphony has a tendency to slip under the radar. It's certainly a symphony I love, and I'm glad that others here feel the same way. 



haziz said:


> Excellent, and as Beethoven symphonies go (relatively) under-rated. The even numbered symphonies don't get the same attention as their "odd" bretheren. They are all superb masterpieces.


I fully agree with this statement.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

It's Beethoven so it's a great symphony -- almost impossible to do poorly or to destroy. The most memorable version I know is Bohm; he makes the first subject in the opening movement bigger than I ever heard it before, then slaughters the music with passion and urgency. I don't know if he was trying to make it into one of Beethoven's odd-numbered symphonies...


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I like the 4th but it's never quite won my heart, so I voted "Good".


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## Scherzi Cat (8 mo ago)

Of the nine symphonies, I would rate 6 of them excellent. This one is in the bottom three. It's only very good.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It has a really great slow movement, otherwise it is comparably "light" and humorous. It belongs with the violin, Triple, 4th piano concerto. We all know that there are numerically more humorous and lyrical than dark or heroic pieces by Beethoven. It's also the first symphony and one of the first works where Beethoven extended the scherzo to a 5 part form (also in the 7th symphony, the quartet 59/2, the cello sonata op.69, and a few more chamber works).


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I have a love/hate relationship with the 4th. It is a great symphony; if it had been written by anyone else this symphony alone would make that composer among the greats. I won't go out of my way to listen to a live performance, but it doesn't put me off either. It really needs brisk, light, and transparent playing: chamber orchestras do well with it. Paavo Jarvi, Harnoncourt, Mackerras, Zinman and even Bruno Walter are all excellent. As a player, this symphony scares the bejeezus out of me. The first three movements are no problem. It's that wickedly difficult bassoon part in the finale that gets me riled up. It's hard enough at a moderate tempo; playing at Beethoven's marking - forget it. I have to cheat. The last time I played the symphony we had a young, inexperienced conductor who was so out of control that the movement just kept getting faster and faster thanks to the strings rushing and his total inability to pull things back. As the fateful passages approached I just lost all awareness of what was going on and played the wicked passage, slurring merrily along.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is one that Furtwangler really had the measure of -- 1943 Berlin.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Mannheim Rocket (Aug 1, 2020)

I really enjoy this one. It is the most fun Beethoven symphony to listen to for me along with the 8th, and there are so many moments in the outer movements and scherzo that are thrilling. The slow movement is beautiful too. I agree with the recordings already mentioned as well. Both Bernsteins and Bohm are great.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

While the orchestral version of this symphony is of course better, the four hand piano transcription by Liszt of this work is also worth a listen.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

This is my favorite pre-Romantic symphony.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with the 4th. It is a great symphony; if it had been written by anyone else this symphony alone would make that composer among the greats. I won't go out of my way to listen to a live performance, but it doesn't put me off either. It really needs brisk, light, and transparent playing: chamber orchestras do well with it. Paavo Jarvi, Harnoncourt, Mackerras, Zinman and even Bruno Walter are all excellent. As a player, this symphony scares the bejeezus out of me. The first three movements are no problem. It's that wickedly difficult bassoon part in the finale that gets me riled up. It's hard enough at a moderate tempo; playing at Beethoven's marking - forget it. I have to cheat. The last time I played the symphony we had a young, inexperienced conductor who was so out of control that the movement just kept getting faster and faster thanks to the strings rushing and his total inability to pull things back. As the fateful passages approached I just lost all awareness of what was going on and played the wicked passage, slurring merrily along.
> View attachment 175036


I don't play an instrument, but I like the finale to be played at a Klempererian tempo.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

I think that I have done a miracle: there are not the usual "horrible" votes. Not a single vote below "good", for now.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

If you analyze this symphony, you'll notice its tight construction, the inimitable thematic unity - in that respect it's more "Beethovenian" than the Eroica, which is much more loosely constructed.
It's a wonderful work, underrated like all the "even" symphonies (except the Pastoral). Here's a favorite recording:








Rogerx said:


> I do not listen to conductors I don't like.


That's why I don't listen to Bernstein...


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> . As the fateful passages approached I just lost all awareness of what was going on and played the wicked passage, slurring merrily along.


I've wondered how bassoon players articulate that. Gardiner's bassoon tongued the whole thing at breakneck speed. Is there some trick to doing that?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> I've wondered how bassoon players articulate that. Gardiner's bassoon tongued the whole thing at breakneck speed. Is there some trick to doing that?


2ble tonguing....i once played it with a conductor who kept pushing the tempo above 160/minute...i 2ble-tongued the whole thing...Ridiculously fast. Strings couldn't keep it together.

Monteux, Mravinsky and Reiner really move it along....their string sections could cut it!!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

If there were an option better than Excellent, I would have voted it. Better than his much more popular 6th. 

Best recording by far I know is Wand with the NDR. If you haven't heard it, give it a go - it will increase your appreciation of this masterpiece.


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