# Non-HIP Beethoven cycle in good sound



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Looking for a second Beethoven symphonies cycle, and would value some advice. Criteria, in ascending order of shallowness:

1/ Non-HIP. I'm enjoying my first cycle - Zinman - a lot, but would now like to hear the other, grander way - Wand, Karajan, Bohm, whomsoever.
2/ Good to excellent sound, very good to excellent interps.
3/ Something chunky to read - liner notes etc. I've bought a few of those Sony Masters boxes and, while cheap and excellent, I often miss a good ol' booklet.
4/ (this is the really shallow one): clam shell not jewel boxes. I am running out of space, plus I just much prefer the look and feel of the newer clam shell box sets. This one's desirable, not essential though.

Any suggestions? So far I think these three are front runners for me.
Thanks!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I like Szell with the Cleveland Orchestra. The 1963 Karajan cycle is also very good.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Karajan Collector edition (1963 set)


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks both. Oh yes, meant to add Szell to that shortlist.
How is the sound on that 1963 Karajan cycle?


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

I recently picked up this set. The re-master is fantastic and includes alternate versions of Symphonies 3,5,7 as well as the Overtures with alternatives along with some incidental music from Egmont and two pieces from the Ballet Creatures of Prometheus. Klemperer's interpretations of Beethoven is a wonder of the musical world.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

HvK's 60's or 70's with latest remasterings.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I don't know if it's still available, but Schmidt-Isserstedt's VPO cycle for Decca, ca 1970, has terrific, clear, well thought out traditional performances, and magnificent VPO playing in state of the art sound.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Nicholas Harnoncourt with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe, on modern instruments. It may have some influence of HIP but it is essentially a very good modern orchestra performance.


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## GKC (Jun 2, 2011)

Osmo Vanska and Minnesota did a fine cycle in SACD sound.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks both. Oh yes, meant to add Szell to that shortlist.
> How is the sound on that 1963 Karajan cycle?


The sound is very good, it was re-mastered for the box shown, and I think they did a very good job. Do you have the "Third Ear" guide to classical music? The reviewer, Stephen Ritter, is very good on Beethoven symphonies: "Karajan's jewel remains his 1963 set where the Berlin Philharmonic was playing like gods, and almost every move the conductor made invited the accolade of 'definitive'. Well it's not quite that, but as close as anyone has come."

I agree! The playing on (especially) the odd numbered symphonies is totally astounding, totally breathtaking. Ritter reviews 31 complete sets, and is highly critical of Zinman, Szell, Klemperer, and Wand. So be careful. What made them front runners for you?

P.S. Careful on which Karajan set you buy, his other three run throughs might be dodgy, Ritter calls the last one "deadly, poisonous"(!) I've listened to bits of early mono set and found the sound quality there just a bit below what I can happily put up with; the last set I used to own and got rid of (early digital, Karajan way past prime, many problems...) 1977 might be OK, I haven't listened to it, Ritter is half-critical and half-supportive.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MarkW said:


> I don't know if it's still available, but Schmidt-Isserstedt's VPO cycle for Decca, ca 1970, has terrific, clear, well thought out traditional performances, and magnificent VPO playing in state of the art sound.


This one is on the market, ridiculous high prices though.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Kurt Masur is a reliable man with Beethoven partnered with Leipzig Gwandhaus Orchestra
Definitely non HIP, but may be best described as solid and dependable


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I second all the previous mentions and will add two more at incredibly low prices: the Krips/LSO cycle, originally recorded on 35mm
Tape and still sounding great, and Blomstedts /Dresden. 
They are both solid dependable and occasionally exceptional. I purchased each for about $10


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Wow, thanks all. Really interesting, helpful stuff.
Mal: 


Mal said:


> Ritter reviews 31 complete sets, and is highly critical of Zinman, Szell, Klemperer, and Wand. So be careful. What made them front runners for you?


I need to get Ritter's guide, not least because I seem to love obsessively comparing reviews. As to my front runners/first acquisition:
*Zinman: *generally (though not universally) well-reviewed, and by some distance the cheapest of the HIP cycles I decided I wanted to start out with. And I do really like it, albeit as a relative newcomer. Here's a positive review, for example: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=5372
*Szell, Klemperer: *lots of very warm reviews for both, and both very affordable
*Wand: *ditto, plus I seem to be developing an affinity with this conductor. Partly because he excels in three of my favourite composers - Bruckner, Schubert, Brahms - but also, I just seem to really like his conducting.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

GKC said:


> Osmo Vanska and Minnesota did a fine cycle in SACD sound.


Love Vanska's Sibelius, so this appeals.


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## Vinski (Dec 16, 2012)

Steve Wright said:


> 2/ Good to excellent sound, very good to excellent interps.


Riccardo Chailly and the Gewandhaus Orchestra.


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

As some other members mentionned, Vänskä has recorder a Beethoven cycle with the BIS label, which does have great sound (it's SACD, btw).

Chailly is close to what I would call "HIP".

Abbado recorded a cycle with the Berliner Philharmoniker ; the recordinegs are live, not studio, but the sound is overall very satisfying.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> I need to get Ritter's guide...


Ritter is just one of many reviewers in "Third Ear Guide to Classical Music" edited by Alexander Morin. This is my favourite guide to classical music recordings. You can see his review of Zinman on p.89 (in Amazon Look Inside, if you don't want to spend pennies...) Ritter's review of Zinman seemed right on the money, to me, and that helped persuade me to take him seriously as a reviewer. He hasn't disappointed me since.


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

Vinski said:


> Riccardo Chailly and the Gewandhaus Orchestra.


Yes, yes, nine times yes.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Another vote of confidence for the Osmo Vänskä cycle with Minnesota.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks all! Well, after reading many encomiums (and, um, suddenly seeing it very cheap from an Amazon seller), I plumped for this set.







But I'll probably select another set from your various suggestions come next pay day - probably either Chailly (whose Brahms and Bruckner I much enjoy), Vanska (ditto, Sibelius) or Harnoncourt (ditto, Dvorak).
Thank you!


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> I'll probably select another set from your various suggestions come next pay day - probably either Chailly (whose Brahms and Bruckner I much enjoy), Vanska (ditto, Sibelius) or Harnoncourt (ditto, Dvorak).
> Thank you!


Do you listen to BAL (building a library) on Radio 3 on Saturday morning? You can catch up on the BBC Radio 3 website. Last Saturday was Beethoven 5.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06w2121

Kleiber won (as usual!) - but note he doesn't have a set. I have the disk and it's my favourite 5th (Karajan runs him very close!) Harnoncourt and Chailly came out well. Harnoncourt got the pick for #3 recently on BAL and is the set I'd be most tempted to explore after Karajan '63. Chailly also came out well for #3. Have you considered getting a premium spotify account? They have most of the sets mentioned in this thread - through a decent streamer (e.g., logitech squeezebox touch) you can get a decent sound (better than BBC 3 HD, close to CD). Heck even the free version sounds OK with a cheap DAC (e.g., Maplin), to get a first impression.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Update: I am just listening to a couple of Jarvi / Bremen performances on YouTube and am mightily impressed...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Mal said:


> Do you listen to BAL (building a library) on Radio 3 on Saturday morning? You can catch up on the BBC Radio 3 website. Last Saturday was Beethoven 5.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06w2121


I don't often catch BAL as I have a young family, but I have downloaded a PDF document with some 10 years' worth of past BAL choices. Fascinating reading...



Mal said:


> Kleiber won (as usual!) - but note he doesn't have a set. I have the disk and it's my favourite 5th (Karajan runs him very close!) Harnoncourt and Chailly came out well. Harnoncourt got the pick for #3 recently on BAL and is the set I'd be most tempted to explore after Karajan '63.


I have the Kleiber and, like most others I imagine, I think it's very fine. Yes, I am tempted by Harnoncourt as well - not least because the bigger box contains his much-praised Piano Concertos as well.[/QUOTE]



Mal said:


> Have you considered getting a premium spotify account? They have most of the sets mentioned in this thread - through a decent streamer (e.g., logitech squeezebox touch) you can get a decent sound (better than BBC 3 HD, close to CD). Heck even the free version sounds OK with a cheap DAC (e.g., Maplin), to get a first impression.


I ought to do this, I guess, but I seem to be a sucker for the physical CD (and, even more so, the lovely slimline box set). 
Same with books - I fear I won't be getting a Kindle anytime soon. But I am 40 (so not really entitled, yet, to be Luddite about this) and live in a small house, so may have to change my views soon.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks all! Well, after reading many encomiums (and, um, suddenly seeing it very cheap from an Amazon seller), I plumped for this set.
> View attachment 79797
> 
> But I'll probably select another set from your various suggestions come next pay day - probably either Chailly (whose Brahms and Bruckner I much enjoy), Vanska (ditto, Sibelius) or Harnoncourt (ditto, Dvorak).
> Thank you!


Good choice anyway:tiphat:


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> I don't often catch BAL as I have a young family, but I have downloaded a PDF document with some 10 years' worth of past BAL choices. Fascinating reading...


If you have a specific interest, like Beethoven's symphonies, I think it's worth listening to the programmes themselves on that specific topic. (Amazingly, previous episodes are all available on the web!)



> Same with books - I fear I won't be getting a Kindle anytime soon...


With Guide books I think the print version is essential, mine are covered in margin notes, stars and crosses


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Can't believe no one has mentioned Bernstein. His earlier set with the NY Philharmonic is the better one and the sound is excellent. He takes almost all of the repeats (the one glaring omission is the Scherzo of the Ninth, which almost no one non-HIP takes). It's been released many times so there probably is one that has a hefty booklet and perhaps a clamshell. I kind of discounted him as a Beethoven conductor for a number of reasons (including his stated opinions that Beethoven was a hack), but as it turns out whenever I hear the music in my head it almost exactly matches his conducting. He wasn't my imprint set either--that was a blend of Karajan '63 and Toscanini 1950s.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

gardibolt said:


> Can't believe no one has mentioned Bernstein. His earlier set with the NY Philharmonic is the better one and the sound is excellent. He takes almost all of the repeats (the one glaring omission is the Scherzo of the Ninth, which almost no one non-HIP takes). It's been released many times so there probably is one that has a hefty booklet and perhaps a clamshell. I* kind of discounted him as a Beethoven conductor for a number of reasons (including his stated opinions that Beethoven was a hack)*, but as it turns out whenever I hear the music in my head it almost exactly matches his conducting. He wasn't my imprint set either--that was a blend of Karajan '63 and Toscanini 1950s.


When did he say this? Because he's been on record (more than once, if I'm not mistaken) that he considers Beethoven the greatest composer, period. Are you referring to the video where he claims Beethoven wasn't a good melodist?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bernstein was being a bit fancy: "He couldn't write good tunes, was bad at rhythm, was a lousy orchestrator, etc. etc., but in spite of all that, he was the greatest composer who ever lived." Or something like that.

Lots of people took issue. He later published his remarks, much toned down. Certainly not his best moment!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Vinski said:


> Riccardo Chailly and the Gewandhaus Orchestra.


If you like Beethoven in the fast lane!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

One problem of getting a set is that most conductors have one week point. Maybe an amalgam is better. If you go for Karajan 63 think of getting his 77 Pastoral as that is a much superior performance to 63.
Of course Kleiber 5&7 is stupendous and there are many other fine performances. I was disappointed in Chailly though who just seems rushed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> One problem of getting a set is that most conductors have one week point.


You solve that problem by getting multiple sets. Of course.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

KenOC said:


> You solve that problem by getting multiple sets. Of course.


Ha! And with ref. to that, KenOC - I used to so much enjoy poring over that Recommended Beethoven Symphonies list that was posted on Amazon.com's So You'd Like To... guides, and which I think you and other TC members put together (ditto the Beethoven piano sonatas and string quartets lists). Amazon has taken down all those lovely lists - i don't suppose you still have the content lying around anywhere?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

DavidA said:


> One problem of getting a set is that most conductors have one week point. Maybe an amalgam is better. If you go for Karajan 63 think of getting his 77 Pastoral as that is a much superior performance to 63.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cristofori (Jan 4, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> Looking for a second Beethoven symphonies cycle, and would value some advice. Criteria, in ascending order of shallowness:
> 
> 1/ Non-HIP. I'm enjoying my first cycle - Zinman - a lot, but would now like to hear the other, grander way - Wand, Karajan, Bohm, whomsoever.
> 2/ Good to excellent sound, very good to excellent interps.
> ...


Just so you're aware, it appears that some of the Beethoven Syms. by Klemperer on that Membran set are in mono and are also live recordings. I'm only saying this as you mentioned one of your criteria for a new set as "having good sound". Not sure how you define that but some are allergic to historical/live recordings.

I would also be looking at that Gunter Wand set as a choice, although that one does not come in a clam-shell case. I prefer the clam shell cases also but that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Cristofori said:


> clam-shell case.


? this is what Google images gives me for clam-shell case, but I don't think this is what you mean:


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Florestan said:


> ? this is what Google images gives me for clam-shell case, but I don't think this is what you mean:


I/we mean this sort of thing - individual card slip cases in a slimline box, instead of the old big fat box of jewel cases. Easier on the eye and on the full-to-bursting shelving unit: though as Cristofori says, not a deal-breaker.


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## Vinski (Dec 16, 2012)

DavidA said:


> If you like Beethoven in the fast lane!


Chailly's cycle is my dozenth or so. Keep hurry.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Steve Wright said:


> I/we mean this sort of thing - individual card slip cases in a slimline box, instead of the old big fat box of jewel cases. Easier on the eye and on the full-to-bursting shelving unit: though as Cristofori says, not a deal-breaker.
> 
> I agree the hinged box with individual CD slip cases is one of the nicest packagings. Similar to multi-record vinyl sets which I have fond recollections of.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

DavidA said:


> One problem of getting a set is that most conductors have one week point. Maybe an amalgam is better. If you go for Karajan 63 think of getting his 77 Pastoral as that is a much superior performance to 63.


Ritter reckons even the very best sets have at least three weak points  In Karajan 63 I would agree 6 is the weakest; I like Bohm's warm version. Thanks for the head's up on the 77 pastoral, I'll add that to the list... For 2 I prefer Zinman. I prefer Haroncourt in 4.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Mal said:


> Ritter reckons even the very best sets have at least three weak points  In Karajan 63 I would agree 6 is the weakest; I like Bohm's warm version. Thanks for the head's up on the 77 pastoral, I'll add that to the list... For 2 I prefer Zinman. I prefer Haroncourt in 4.


I have Bohm's Pastoral - and Walter's, and Norrington's, and Zinman's. Maybe I have enough Pastorals... 
I really like Zinman's 2 (and 6, and 1, and 3, and 4...): in fact I really like most of his set. Full of life, verve and energy.
Harnoncourt - all 14 CDs of him - is probably next on my list, just edging out Immerseel, Chailly, Vanska, Jarvi, Gardiner, Mackerras...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Steve Wright said:


> DavidA said:
> 
> 
> > One problem of getting a set is that most conductors have one week point. Maybe an amalgam is better. If you go for Karajan 63 think of getting his 77 Pastoral as that is a much superior performance to 63.
> ...


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Speaking of odd Pastorals, the Mengelberg 1940 Pastoral is pretty far out there. The first four bars of the first movement are taken quite slowly, then the rest at a fairly breakneck pace. It's hearable as the free sample on this page from Pristine:

https://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc280.html

Bruno Walter did a hell of a Sixth Symphony. Probably my favorite.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

gardibolt said:


> Speaking of odd Pastorals, the Mengelberg 1940 Pastoral is pretty far out there. The first four bars of the first movement are taken quite slowly, then the rest at a fairly breakneck pace. It's hearable as the free sample on this page from Pristine:
> 
> https://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc280.html
> 
> Bruno Walter did a hell of a Sixth Symphony. Probably my favorite.


The Mengelberg sounds intriguing, I'll have a listen.
I can't remember, in my head, any substantive differences between Bohm and Walter. Or, for that matter, between Zinman and Norrington. Will have to have another listen.


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## Le Peel (May 15, 2015)

In terms of sound I enjoy the Bohm cycle. I especially appreciate the representation of the woodwinds in these recordings. However, his slow tempo can sometimes drag or leave me wanting more. It's a worthy cycle, if you like the interpretation.

Other non-hip cycles with good sound include Barenboim and Wand. However, no cycle is perfect. I prefer singles to complete cycles nowadays.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> Nicholas Harnoncourt with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe, on modern instruments. It may have some influence of HIP but it is essentially a very good modern orchestra performance.


Well, rats; I just saw that at my used CD store. Now I have to get _yet another_ Beethoven cycle.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> Looking for a second Beethoven symphonies cycle, and would value some advice. Criteria, in ascending order of shallowness:
> 
> 1/ Non-HIP. I'm enjoying my first cycle - Zinman - a lot, but would now like to hear the other, grander way - Wand, Karajan, Bohm, whomsoever.
> 2/ Good to excellent sound, very good to excellent interps.
> ...


The Wand is a very fine set and gives me more pleasure than any of the Karajan and Abbado sets.
Wand takes time to smell the roses. His 2nd, 4th and 8th are the best I've ever heard.

A very fine set demonstrating a lot of feeling for the composer.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Just beware, I have a Wand set (this one) where the 6th is in 5 tracks with an annoying track change mid note.

Not sure if this one is any different.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

gardibolt said:


> Speaking of odd Pastorals, the Mengelberg 1940 Pastoral is pretty far out there. The first four bars of the first movement are taken quite slowly, then the rest at a fairly breakneck pace.


I'm listening on Spotify. Personally, I think that's a pretty convincing beginning. It's as if Beethoven gets to the country, stops to breathe in the air, then goes out for a brisk walk.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bruno Walter's stereo recording of the Pastoral, in much the same vein as Bohm's and Wand's, is considered by many the best there is. It can be had cheaply as part of a download of the whole cycle in Sony remasters.

http://tinyurl.com/zsgkdbr


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Bruno Walter's stereo recording of the Pastoral, in much the same vein as Bohm's and Wand's, is considered by many the best there is. It can be had cheaply as part of a download of the whole cycle in Sony remasters.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/zsgkdbr


In fact, if you are looking for a classic mid 20th century style of Beethoven, Walter is a very good choice. Alternates I would suggest:
Bohm VPO
Bernstein/NYPO on Sony or Bernstein/VPO on DG
Karajan 1980s.
My personal preference is for Herbie the K and His Band of Renown


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Zinman/Zurich Tonhalle...best thing you'll find in the bargain bin. He uses the original markings, so you may find other cycles to be a little slower than what you're used to.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Couac Addict said:


> Zinman/Zurich Tonhalle...best thing you'll find in the bargain bin. He uses the original markings, so you may find other cycles to be a little slower than what you're used to.


Plus he takes almost all of the repeats; of the sets I've checked, Hogwood is the only one more complete in that respect.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

gardibolt said:


> Plus he takes almost all of the repeats; of the sets I've checked, Hogwood is the only one more complete in that respect.


I have a few symphonies with Zinman. Maybe I need the whole cycle. But I read that one who most closely follows the score is Haitink. What does anyone think of the Haitink cycle? There are two different Haitink cycles and they are expensive.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Jeffrey Smith said:


> In fact, if you are looking for a classic mid 20th century style of Beethoven, Walter is a very good choice...


Just listened to his 4, and really liked it - very warm and genial.


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## Scififan (Jun 28, 2015)

MarkW said:


> I don't know if it's still available, but Schmidt-Isserstedt's VPO cycle for Decca, ca 1970, has terrific, clear, well thought out traditional performances, and magnificent VPO playing in state of the art sound.


I would agree; this cycle is very fine. It is available as a download from iTunes at a moderate price and the sound is excellent. I'm not sure what it costs as a CD set. I have the cycle on vinyl in its later mid-price reissue and I imagine that a CD set should be of comparable price.


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

Florestan said:


> I have a few symphonies with Zinman. Maybe I need the whole cycle. But I read that one who most closely follows the score is Haitink. What does anyone think of the Haitink cycle? There are two different Haitink cycles and they are expensive.


I have the Haitink LSO cycle. It's fine, but not fine enough to be worth the current price.
I would advise getting the rest of the ZZZ (Zinman Zurich Zyklus), which means not just the symphonies but also the concertos, overtures, and Missa Solemnis. With the possible exception of the MS, they are all worthwhile.

A name I have not noticed yet on this thread whose cycle I like is Paavo Jarvi.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Florestan said:


> I have a few symphonies with Zinman. Maybe I need the whole cycle. But I read that one who most closely follows the score is Haitink. What does anyone think of the Haitink cycle? There are two different Haitink cycles and they are expensive.


If you're an Amazon Prime member, you can stream Haitink's more recent cycle for free and check it out.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Is the most recent Haitink cycle the LSO live cycle? If so, it's available on spotify - though you need to know what to search for (!) "Haitink Beethoven" doesn't do it, you need to search for "Beethoven London Symphony Orchestra". Spotify really need to sort out their meta-data and search procedures to handle classical music in a less frustrating manner. Alternatively, try this link:

https://play.spotify.com/album/74LvpNiSRPoPxOBVutouRe

Here's the link to Karajan '63, which is my favourite set (so far!)

https://play.spotify.com/user/flipthefrog/playlist/12Gmmb8GcVOl29iHZ3y9YN


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Here's my review of the Abbado-Vienna set on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/review/R3CRTP11G4FOTK


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

dsphipps100 said:


> Here's my review of the Abbado-Vienna set on Amazon:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/review/R3CRTP11G4FOTK


Wow, I have toyed with buying an Abbado Beethoven cycle many times and always gave it up as hopeless because of all the confusion over which set to get, but it sounds like the Vienna set is the one to go with.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Florestan said:


> What does anyone think of the Haitink cycle? There are two different Haitink cycles and they are expensive.


The newer Haitink cycle on the LSO label is most excellent, with quality sonics. I am much more of a fan of this cycle than any of Haitink's or Abbado's earlier cycles. Haitink's approach has become leaner and more spry and transparent, and every inch of it is quite musical.

Highly recommended and (for some reason) quite cheap as a download on Amazon.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

KenOC said:


> The newer Haitink cycle on the LSO label is most excellent, with quality sonics. I am much more of a fan of this cycle than any of Haitink's or Abbado's earlier cycles. Haitink's approach has become leaner and more spry and transparent, and every inch of it is quite musical.
> 
> Highly recommended and (for some reason) quite cheap as a download on Amazon.


It's currently $13.99 from Amazon in mp3. (Amazon's mp3s are usually ca. 256 kbps.)

http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Nos-1-9-L-V-Beethoven/dp/B000GUJYRE

If you don't mind a slightly higher price, you can get it from "Presto Classical" (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/LSO+Live/LSO0598#download) in FLAC (16-bit @ 44 kHz, which is CD equivalent) for $28.00.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

I've been listening to the Haitink LSO live set from 2005-2006 and it really is excellent. Vibrant, exciting tempi, and great sound.


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## samsondale (Nov 22, 2013)

I have the Cluytens on CD and quite like it. I bought it primarily because it was about 13 dollars. I have the Bohm cycle on vinyl and like that one as well.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

samsondale said:


> I have the Bohm cycle on vinyl and like that one as well.


If you're talking about Bohm's Vienna cycle, then you have the finest Pastorale I've ever come across. Every detail is absolutely perfect.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

...and nobody mentioned Mariss Jansons With Bavarian Radio Orchestra, the one I listen to sometimes. (String Quartets and piano trios are my favorite Beethoven.) You get some nice modern works in between the symphonies too


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## samsondale (Nov 22, 2013)

dsphipps100 said:


> If you're talking about Bohm's Vienna cycle, then you have the finest Pastorale I've ever come across. Every detail is absolutely perfect.


I just saw this today. Thanks for the tip. I now know what I am doing tomorrow while the kids are in Japanese school! I have several versions (including another vinyl version that I loved as a kid) but am no expert. Can't wait to hear it with new ears.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

dsphipps100 said:


> If you're talking about Bohm's Vienna cycle, then you have the finest Pastorale I've ever come across. Every detail is absolutely perfect.


It's one of the finest I've come across on Spotify. But, for me, Walter matches Bohm in beauty & humanity, and adds a bit more sparkle. I like Walter's #2 and #4 as well, so I plumped for his CD set this month. I rate Karajan '63 highest for the odd numbered symphonies.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Gunther Wand set is in fine analog stereo and is consistently the finest set I have ever heard.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

gardibolt said:


> Plus [Zinman] takes almost all of the repeats...


... so you get to experience his undernourished string section and wild tempos for longer  That said, I quite liked his 2 and 7. The former is wind dominated, and his wild tempos become bubbly, spontaneous, and joyous in 7.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

If you want a big sound, quality accounts and something substantial to read then then the new Rattle / BPO set has the lot. Beautifully packaged and recorded but rather expansive. The sound is VERY impressive though. There are some copies of Rattle's first cycle with the VPO knocking around on Ebay in the UK for £3 at the moment. Total steal (it's not as good as his current cycle but it's still very good) and again quite a bit of reading in there, too. Doubt the ones on Ebay are clamshell though. Gardiners's set comes in a very thin box. Great sound, great performances but not much to read.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm so glad this thread was resurrected. I had purchased the Karajan 1963 set and find the brass weirdly out of tune. I listened to samples and thought the recent Chailly set might appeal to me, but I don't want fast tempos. Now I can explore some of these other suggestions, starting with hpowders' Wand


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Give *this* a try.

"This is traditional Golden Age stuff where Morris rejects HIP strictures and embraces red-blooded engagement in a way that may now make some blench. It's full flavour, full-on Beethoven - potent, romping, athletic and not in a lean way either."


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Or get Blomstedt's wonderful Dresden set. Mid-paced, traditional readings that are beautifully played by the Dresden Staatskapelle and critically acclaimed. A marvellous 7th and 9th. Great set and wonderful analogue recording. Not much to read but with recordings this good you wont need to read anything. Add to that the fact that you can always pick it up for around £5 on Ebay (and sometimes Amazon) and it's a winner. You WONT be disappointed.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I have tried the Simon Rattle version, mentioned several months back in this thread and the Blomstedt version above (or similar one on Spotify) and found in both the bass singers must take an audible breath in the long second phrase "_Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen und freudenvollere_." Of course I couldn't sing the first word of it so who am I to judge? But I have heard other versions where there are no gasps for air in that line that I can hear.

The search continues.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Merl said:


> Or get Blomstedt's wonderful Dresden set. Mid-paced, traditional readings that are beautifully played by the Dresden Staatskapelle and critically acclaimed....


Who by? "Third Ear": "You won't find a less emotionally involved set of readings. Everything is in its place, but the real spirit of Beethoven is missing." You seem a bit lukewarm yourself. Does this set tear your soul apart? Do the orchestra play like gods? If not try Karajan '63. Does it put your fractured soul back together, for at least a few hours. If not, try Walter.


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