# Final Round: La Fatal Pietra. Callas/Baum against Nilsson/ Cor. and Ponselle/ Martin.



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Vote NOW. I had hoped to make this multiple choice since it is 
a Callas contest, but it can't be done unless I close this. Let's try voting Just for your favorite and see if any others win out. Maybe we will stick with this if all goes well for future contests as it keeps me from you know whating up LOL


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

One has to listen through a lot of noise on the Callas/Baum excerpt and, for a Callas addict like me, it has its rewards. The Callas voice didn't lend itself to disembodied _pianissimi_ or to rock-solid _sostenuti_, but it could produce fabulous _diminuendi_ and a silky _legato_ which it does here, guided by Callas's instinct and intelligence, not to mention her musicianship. So I can't not vote for Callas, even if it has the unfortunate pairing with Baum.

I voted for the Nilsson/Corelli pair and I would repeat it here, but I cannot vote for two!

*The Callas scene starts at about 2:12:30*


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I messed up. Try voting tomorrow. Right now you can't vote multiple choice. I'll monitor and change the posting when you can.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> One has to listen through a lot of noise on the Callas/Baum excerpt and, for a Callas addict like me, it has its rewards. The Callas voice didn't lend itself to disembodied _pianissimi_ or to rock-solid _sostenuti_, but it could produce fabulous _diminuendi_ and a silky _legato_ which it does here, guided by Callas's instinct and intelligence, not to mention her musicianship. So I can't not vote for Callas, even if it has the unfortunate pairing with Baum.
> 
> I voted for the Nilsson/Corelli pair and I would repeat it here, but I cannot vote for two!
> 
> *The Callas scene starts at 2:12:59*


I mostly do a good job but my little boo boos slip in LOL The voting will be fixed soon. Birgit and Corelli are singing a C6 in heaven for your almost vote.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I mostly do a good job but my little boo boos slip in LOL The voting will be fixed soon. Birgit and Corelli are singing a C6 in heaven for your almost votee.


I await with bated breath. At least I could vote for Maria…


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I await with bated breath. At least I could vote for Maria…


Wow. I can't hold my breath until tomorrow. You and Caballe know something I don't.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

I think a better choice for Callas is the 1953 London Aida, or the studio recording that despite the shrill high notes, it's much more artistically refined and she doesn't have to compete with the boxer Baum.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

khalid said:


> I think a better choice for Callas is the 1953 London Aida, or the studio recording that despite the shrill high notes, it's much more artistically refined and she doesn't have to compete with the boxer Baum.


I asked for advice in picking out this selection from a serious Callas fan. I don't know what else I should have done. There are a lot of problems with this round and I apologize. I already had to change Callas' entry as it and all her other Tomb Scenes were incomplete scenes in different ways and I don't know if I should change it again . All of Callas' versions of this scene have sound or casting issues it seems. I thought I'd better to include her or else her fans would say where is Maria?


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I asked for advice in picking out this selection from a serious Callas fan. I don't know what else I should have done. There are a lot of problems with this round and I apologize. I already had to change Callas' entry as it and all the other Tomb Scenes were incomplete scenes in different ways and I don't know if I should change it again . All of Callas' versions of this scene have sound or casting issues it seems. I thought I'd better to include her or else her fans would say where is Maria?


it's really a hard choice but there's nothing you can do, they're all flawed in a way or another as you said. I think if you'd change it use the studio recording, at least it's more consistent with the other recordings.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

The sound on Callas and Baum in itself would probably take them out of consideration. Heard of Baum for a long time and he turned out much as I'd heard him described with a great top but little color. I liked alot of his singing except that he was next to Callas which made him sound comparatively unrefined. My response to Callas was much as it had been in the O Patria Mia contest...what she did artistically in this instance did not make up for the frequent poor sound in her upper register.

Ponselle and Martinelli, Nilsson and Corelli, Callas and Baum


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> The sound on Callas and Baum in itself would probably take them out of consideration. Heard of Baum for a long time and he turned out much as I'd heard him described with a great top but little color. I liked alot of his singing except that he was next to Callas which made him sound comparatively unrefined. My response to Callas was much as it had been in the O Patria Mia contest...what she did artistically in this instance did not make up for the frequent poor sound in her upper register.
> 
> Ponselle and Martinelli, Nilsson and Corelli, Callas and Baum


GO AHEAD AND VOTE. Pick your favorite. Management can't make it multiple choice. I don't want to redo it.RE: CALLAS and BAUM: my first choice would have been to leave off Callas altogether as there was no perfect recording for her, so this was the best I could do. I could change it but I don't think it fair at this late of a date. I thought since this was a major role for her the Callas fans would want her represented. I did clear my choice with a Callas fan. I personally don't think her sound is much different from the Ponselle/ Martinelli one, which also was mono and is no worse than some of the recordings from her fat period I love so much, such as Armida, the high Eb of the Triumphal Scene, or her early O Patria Mia, .


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The reliably fine artistic instincts of Maria Callas can't rescue this, and to be honest I don't think the role suits her vocal timbre and technical strengths all that well. I'd much rather she were singing Lucia or something. Baum's big, beefy voice is employed solidly but with a minimum of imagination and sensitivity; there's little indication that he knows what he's singing about. The beyond-this-world transport that Verdi wanted to express with his ethereal sonorities is wholly absent, as everything is sung at a mezzo-forte or louder. The rough recording doesn't help, but I think my musical objections would pertain regardless.

Both Corelli and Martinelli clearly do know what they're singing about; coming from Baum, we're grateful to find ourselves back where we belong, underground in ancient Egypt expecting to die with our faithful soprano. Responsibilty for the emotional trajectory of this scene really belongs more to Radames than to Aida, who needs mainly to sing sympathetically, with beautiful phrasing and some lovely floated pianissimi where they're called for. Of the two tenors, Corelli puts more into telling the story moment by moment, immediately evoking the emptiness and darkness of the tomb and projecting the desolation, hopelessness, awe and incredulity Radames must feel at finding himself where he is. Corelli may fall into excessive lachrymosity at times, but then he _is_ facing death by asphyxiation. How would _you_ feel? I give Corelli the edge here, though Martinelli has the character well enough in hand. Between the sopranos the choice is pretty clear: Nilsson makes a noble effort with her peculiar instrument, projects the character's feelings, phrases sensitively and shows she can float a high note. It's all better than one might expect, and I find I can adjust to her unconventional timbre on repeated listening. Still, Ponselle is completely at home in this music, vocally and temperamentally, while Nilsson is on vacation from Valhalla.

There's no doubt that Martinelli and Ponselle give the most thoroughly idiomatic performance here. But I'm going to surprise myself and choose Corelli and Nilsson, mainly on the strength of Corelli's compelling Radames, which imbues the performance as a whole with a strong sense of drama and makes Nilsson's shortcomings less important than they would be with a less powerful tenor. I must say that this excerpt piques my curiosity about their complete recording. Grace Bumbry's Amneris looks promising as the third side of the triangle, and Mario Sereni, the Amonasro, was no slouch. For those not allergic to Nilsson in Italian opera, this recording might prove one of the better ones.

Here's a review by Ralph Moore for the curious:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Jul/Verdi_Aida_7777632295.htm


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Such a tough competition. Callas despite being relatively crude as she was clearly being competitive and not as refined as later performances, she did a great job, managed the piano and high notes with ease, while Baum really ruins it for me, he sings as if in a boxing ring, it sounds like Radamès' triumph not Aida. Ponselle is as great as usual when it comes to italianate soft singing, her legato and pianissimi are out of this world, Martinelli is a great Radamès, great crescendi although tight on the top. But singing close to a gramophone doesn't really give a sense how the voice would sound in an opera house. Nilsson is giving her best Verdian line with minimal Wagnerian mannerism, great management of the dynamics. Corelli is simply the best, a role was made for his heroic yet beautiful tone, and he gives the best interpretation. Doing the math, I think Nilsson & Corelli are the winners.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Baum did have a splendid instrument, but he hadn't a shred of artistry. His relentlessly loud singing leaves Callas with two choices, sing so quietly she can't be heard or match him decibel for decibel. The older Callas might have opted for the former, but the young one, no doubt completely exasperated by this point, evidently went for volume. This performance was the first occasion she sang the top Eb in the Triumphal Scene. When the Intendant of the Teatro Colon originally asked her to sing the note she had refused, saying that she thought it artistically "not very nice", but apparently Baum's relentlessly loud singing was not only getting on her nerves but that of the rest of the cast too. She sent a note round to them asking if they would object to her singing the note and, as they all agreed, unbeknownst to Baum, she hurled out a magnificent top Eb which sent the Mexican audience into a frenzy. Baum was furious, vowing he would never sing with her again (a promise unfortunately not kept) but by the time they came to sing the Tomb Scene, their singing had become extremely competitive. Callas can't hide her innate musicality, but it is severely compromised. 

Incidentally, though Callas sang Aida quite a lot in the earlier part of her career, I never think of it as a Callas role, and though I treasure her second Mexcico performance with Del Monaco and the studio recording under Serafin, it doesn't rank that high amongst my favourite Callas roles, coming a log way down after Norma, Violetta, Lucia, the Trovatore Leonora, Amina, Anna Bolena and many others she sang less frequently. 

I've already discussed my feelings about the two other performanes here. I don't really like Nilsson in this music (well I don't really like Nilsson). Corelli, despite an inclination to be a little lacrymose, is spendid though, and I'm tempted to give them the palm. I certainly prefer Corelli to Martinelli, but Martinelli knows what he's doing and has the measure of the scene, even if his actual tone is less ingratiating. However, for me Ponselle is a clear winner over Nilsson and I'm voting for her and Martinelli, mainly because my preference tends to be for sopranos.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Baum did have a splendid instrument, but he hadn't a shred of artistry. His relentlessly loud singing leaves Callas with two choices, sing so quietly she can't be heard or match him decibel for decibel. The older Callas might have opted for the former, but the young one, no doubt completely exasperated by this point, evidently went for volume. This performance was the first occasion she sang the top Eb in the Triumphal Scene. When the Intendant of the Teatro Colon originally asked her to sing the note she had refused, saying that she thought it artistically "not very nice", but apparently Baum's relentlessly loud singing was not only getting on her nerves but that of the rest of the cast too. She sent a note round to them asking if they would object to her singing the note and, as they all agreed, unbeknownst to Baum, she hurled out a magnificent top Eb which sent the Mexican audience into a frenzy. Baum was furious, vowing he would never sing with her again (a promise unfortunately not kept) but by the time they came to sing the Tomb Scene, their singing had become extremely competitive. Callas can't hide her innate musicality, but it is severely compromised.
> 
> Incidentally, though Callas sang Aida quite a lot in the earlier part of her career, I never think of it as a Callas role, and though I treasure her second Mexcico performance with Del Monaco and the studio recording under Serafin, it doesn't rank that high amongst my favourite Callas roles, coming a log way down after Norma, Violetta, Lucia, the Trovatore Leonora, Amina, Anna Bolena and many others she sang less frequently.
> 
> I've already discussed my feelings about the two other performanes here. I don't really like Nilsson in this music (well I don't really like Nilsson). Corelli, despite an inclination to be a little lacrymose, is spendid though, and I'm tempted to give them the palm. I certainly prefer Corelli to Martinelli, but Martinelli knows what he's doing and has the measure of the scene, even if his actual tone is less ingratiating. However, for me Ponselle is a clear winner over Nilsson and I'm voting for her and Martinelli, mainly because my preference tends to be for sopranos.


(Incidentally, if it had to be Callas with Baum, I'd have probably gone for the 1953 Covent Garden performance, which is in better sound and in which Barbirolli is able to tame some of Baum's excesses, though he still tends to bawl.)


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> while Nilsson is on vacation from Valhalla.


 The best description of Nilsson's Italian roles. She wasn't the biggest fan of Verdi, Puccini or even Mozart but she said she sings them to keep her voice light and agile.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This might be the only Callas entry into the ring for us where she doesn't come out on top, but that is the beauty and peril of duets: it takes two to tango. In Ritorno Vincitor , the Triumphal Scene and the early O Patria Mias, she is Callas at her best, but I agree with Tsaraslondon, I don't think Aida is one of her better roles, but of course it might have been a different experience live. Frankly I would have LOVED to have heard her in Amneris, a part that fits her temperament better. The other two are a toss up.They are both wonderful, but I don't know who I think is greater: Corelli or Ponselle. 20 years from now they could pair them up electronically. By the way, re: Baum- if it weren't for him we wouldn't have the Eb in the Triumphal Scene!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

That final gawd-awful note from Martinelli sealed the doom of them becoming #1. 
How could I take it away from a job superbly done by a couple mastering the art of chemistry together?
I thnk Nilsson and Corelli did the most satisfying job even though, if I had the right to choose only 1 singer and not the couple, Ponselle would have won hands down.
Nilsson-Corelli for me.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> (Incidentally, if it had to be Callas with Baum, I'd have probably gone for the 1953 Covent Garden performance, which is in better sound and in which Barbirolli is able to tame some of Baum's excesses, though he still tends to bawl.)


At least he doesn't hold the last note beyond its value, in almost all unison notes with Callas, as he does in Mexico City (1950).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Frankly I would have LOVED to have heard [Callas] in Amneris, a part that fits her temperament better.


Temperament and vocal qualities as well, I think. One of the interesting things she deprived us of by refusing to sing certain mezzo roles in late career. She had nothing to lose by then.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Temperament and vocal qualities as well, I think. One of the interesting things she deprived us of by refusing to sing certain mezzo roles in late career. She had nothing to lose by then.


Except her pride!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Except her pride!


Actually that was one of the reasons she turned down singing Carmen on the Beecham recording. That recording would have first been mooted in the late 1950s and Beecham asked Legge if Callas would be a good choice. He assured him that she would, but she refused saying that a) her French was not yet good enough to sing a role in French, and b) she wasn't going to have some too bit critic go on about her losing her top and becoming a mezzo. That would have been extremely pertinent in 1958 or 1959.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Actually that was one of the reasons she turned down singing Carmen on the Beecham recording. That recording would have first been mooted in the late 1950s and Beecham asked Legge if Callas would be a good choice. He assured him that she would, but she refused saying that a) her French was not yet good enough to sing a role in French, and b) she wasn't going to have some too bit critic go on about her losing her top and becoming a mezzo. That would have been extremely pertinent in 1958 or 1959.


Ponselle said that had she not retired from the stage she would have continued as a mezzo. I wonder what she would have said to Callas. Certainly not all mezzo roles would have been suitable, but some of the arias she recorded might be indicative. I'd vote, at least, for Amneris, Eboli, Carmen, Dalila, Didon, Ortrud and Kundry (the latter two in German).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Ponselle said that had she not retired from the stage she would have continued as a mezzo. I wonder what she would have said to Callas. Certainly not all mezzo roles would have been suitable, but some of the arias she recorded might be indicative. I'd vote, at least, for Amneris, Eboli, Carmen, Dalila, Didon, Ortrud and Kundry (the latter two in German).


I'd add Charlotte and Cassandre. In fact my fantasy *Les Troyens* cast has Callas and Baker alternating as Cassandre and Didon.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Callas' voice for some reason (probably a combination) declined like no other, it's not about the top only, even her middle range became disastrous although her chest remained pretty much intact all the way. By 1963 I don't think her voice had the body of a lyric soprano let alone a mezzo, it was paper thin and nasal in many times. Unlike Ponselle who always had the color and tessitura of a real mezzo. That being said, I really wish Callas recorded the veil song from Don Carlo, it would've been the only time the coloratura part done right on record.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

khalid said:


> Callas' voice for some reason (probably a combination) declined like no other, it's not about the top only, even her middle range became disastrous although her chest remained pretty much intact all the way. *By 1963 I don't think her voice had the body of a lyric soprano let alone a mezzo, it was paper thin* and nasal in many times.


That isn't what I hear as she pits herself quite effectively against the power of Gobbi in the 1964 _Tosca_ from Covent Garden. Her middle range does not sound "disastrous." That the voice thinned out isn't disputed, but surely "paper thin" is hyperbole.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> That isn't what I hear as she pits herself quite effectively against the power of Gobbi in the 1964 _Tosca_ from Covent Garden. Her middle range does not sound "disastrous." That the voice thinned out isn't disputed, but surely "paper thin" is hyperbole.


If you notice in her London Tosca, when she sings clear her voice sound quite thin and frail, however when she darkens her voice, she does have a bigger sound but less clear dictions. Ask anyone who attended her last Toscas, she was inaudible at moments which is pretty shocking for a singer who started her career singing Wagner and Turandot like a walk at the park.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

khalid said:


> If you notice in her London Tosca, when she sings clear her voice sound quite thin and frail, however when she darkens her voice, she does have a bigger sound but less clear dictions. Ask anyone who attended her last Toscas, she was inaudible at moments which is pretty shocking for a singer who started her career singing Wagner and Turandot like a walk at the park.


I've only read that about her final performance at the Royal Gala in 1965, which she was in any case singing against doctor's orders, having cancelled all other performances. Volume has quite a lot to do with physical stamina and she was feeling quite weak. On the other hand I have heard first hand accounts from people who saw the first run of performances in 1964, who said, that though the voice was not the size it had been in 1952 when she made her debut, she never had any difficulty penetrating into the house. The conductor Iris LeMare said the performance was so utterly brilliant, that she never wanted to see *Tosca* again, as she didn't want that memory sullied.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've only read that about her final performance at the Royal Gala in 1965, which she was in any case singing against doctor's orders, having cancelled all other performances. Volume has quite a lot to do with physical stamina and she was feeling quite weak. On the other hand I have heard first hand accounts from people who saw the first run of performances in 1964, who said, that though the voice was not the size it had been in 1952 when she made her debut, she never had any difficulty penetrating into the house. The conductor Iris LeMare said the performance was so utterly brilliant, that she never wanted to see *Tosca* again, as she didn't want that memory sullied.


From a dramatic standpoint it's unequalled but vocally, it leaves a lot to be desired. We're talking about the voice that sang Wagner and Turandot! it still baffles me, I can't remember any other singer who had that much decline.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

khalid said:


> From a dramatic standpoint it's unequalled but vocally, it leaves a lot to be desired. We're talking about the voice that sang Wagner and Turandot! it still baffles me, I can't remember any other singer who had that much decline.


Khalid: If you read pages 220 and 221 of Michael Scott's book _Maria Callas_ you will see how close he comes to your description of the deterioration of her voice (1959). Some dislike his book as being too critical of her voice but there is much effusive praise of her voice as well from him so for that reason I appreciate the honesty of his negativity as well.
One paragraph in particular reads; "I remember how diminished her voice was (speaking of a June 17 Covent Garden _Medea_). Her one high "c" which she interpolated at the end of the second act, was a shred of a note. And it was impossible to ignore how her voice was reducing in size, how its range was contracting, not only at the top but at the bottom too -- on phrase endings low notes would frequently be occluded....her career was in rapid decline."


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

khalid said:


> From a dramatic standpoint it's unequalled but vocally, it leaves a lot to be desired. We're talking about the voice that sang Wagner and Turandot! it still baffles me, I can't remember any other singer who had that much decline.


I don't think the decline was linear in any way. She could sing relatively well one moment, and quite severely the next. In her 1962 London concert she sings very difficult scenes relatively well, minus some wobbly top notes.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Ponselle said that had she not retired from the stage she would have continued as a mezzo. I wonder what she would have said to Callas. Certainly not all mezzo roles would have been suitable, but some of the arias she recorded might be indicative. I'd vote, at least, for Amneris, Eboli, Carmen, Dalila, Didon, Ortrud and Kundry (the latter two in German).


Also the Rossini mezzo roles in Italiana and Cenerentola. Her recording of the Rondo of the latter has flawless coloratura though the final high note wobbles.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> I don't think the decline was linear in any way. She could sing relatively well one moment, and quite severely the next. In her 1962 London concert she sings very difficult scenes relatively well, minus some wobbly top notes.


I used to think her good singing was over after the weight loss, but she did some of her best recordings up though the mid 50's. I am featuring a much later aria that is actually one of my favorites of hers in a contest. The main thing she lost in the weight loss were those enormous notes above the staff like in Armida and Aida. That was a loss for me.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> Khalid: If you read pages 220 and 221 of Michael Scott's book _Maria Callas_ you will see how close he comes to your description of the deterioration of her voice (1959). Some dislike his book as being too critical of her voice but there is much effusive praise of her voice as well from him so for that reason I appreciate the honesty of his negativity as well.
> One paragraph in particular reads; "I remember how diminished her voice was (speaking of a June 17 Covent Garden _Medea_). Her one high "c" which she interpolated at the end of the second act, was a shred of a note. And it was impossible to ignore how her voice was reducing in size, how its range was contracting, not only at the top but at the bottom too -- on phrase endings low notes would frequently be occluded....her career was in rapid decline."


Callas is my favorite and I do think she was unquestionably the greatest opera singer. However it doesn't really help to be in denial of her decline, it would be denying her hard work and art really. She wasn't born with a naturally beautiful voice like Ponselle or Tebaldi and made a career with it, she built her voice piece by piece.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I used to think her good singing was over after the weight loss, but she did some of her best recordings up though the mid 50's. I am featuring a much later aria that is actually one of my favorites of hers in a contest. The main thing she lost in the weight loss were those enormous notes above the staff like in Armida and Aida. That was a loss for me.


I think up until 1958 she was wonderful, afterwards the problems kept exacerbating. I think she had big high notes until 1957-1958. She certainly could match Del Monaco in the Chenier duet or Norma of 1955, and he had some of the loudest high notes of any tenor. In Anna Bolena and Medea in 1957 and 1958 too, her voice soars and is almost as big as her heavier days.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I have to suggest that any of us who were not around to hear Callas's performances in the opera house need to be careful about assigning degrees of decline to the physical power of her sound. The more we listen to recordings and compare them either with our experience of voices live or with descriptions by people who have heard them live, the more we know that recordings give a more or less imperfect idea of how a voice actually sounds and comes across in a physical space. There's no doubt that the voice of Callas lost some of its power. People who heard her remark on it, and we can hear it to a degree. But when people who have never heard a singer except through a microphone talk about this aspect of her singing, I take their speculations with a grain of salt.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

You're right to an extent, we should be careful considering the limitations of the technology. However it's not drastically different when it comes to well recorded physical matters like the amplitude of the voice in comparison to the others with staging and mic placement in mind. After all, mics work similar to our ears, especially that there was little to no manipulations back then. We can't tell how it exactly sounded, but we can tell how it relatively changed with all matters taken into consideration, and I find it very consistent with what people who actually heard her say, including the quote nina foresti mentioned which I read for the first time. Of course everyone can believe what they want.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

khalid:
I don't think Woodduck was referring to my post (he was speaking of recordings I believe), because the writer I was referring to was there in person and documenting what he heard live. He even says, "I remember how diminished her voice was..."
In some sense that would seem to indicate to me that the writer was extremely familiar with her voice -- even moreso than anyone on this or any other astute opera forum, enough to document it in book form.
And I do agree with Woodduck's supposition, " But when people who have never heard a singer except through a microphone talk about this aspect of her singing, I take their speculations with a grain of salt."


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> khalid:
> I don't think Woodduck was referring to my post (he was speaking of recordings I believe), because the writer I was referring to was there in person and documenting what he heard live. He even says, "I remember how diminished her voice was..."
> In some sense that would seem to indicate to me that the writer was extremely familiar with her voice -- even moreso than anyone on this or any other astute opera forum, enough to document it in book form.
> And I do agree with Woodduck's supposition, " But when people who have never heard a singer except through a microphone talk about this aspect of her singing, I take their speculations with a grain of salt."


I was talking about recordings also. What I'm saying is even those who heard her in person agree with what we can clearly hear on recordings if you are familiar enough with Callas's voice along the years, especially in a familiar place like La Scala or ROH.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

khalid said:


> I was talking about recordings also. What I'm saying is even those who heard her in person agree with what we can clearly hear on recordings if you are familiar enough with Callas's voice along the years, especially in a familiar place like La Scala or ROH.


Yes but is there anyone here on TC who ever heard Callas in person? Or is everyone talking secondhand? It's interesting that even conductors who considered her voice relatively unappealing absolutely riveted by her stage presence


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I didn't hear Callas live, but I have friends, most unfortunately no longer with us, who did. All would agree that the voice changed quite a bit over the years and that its decline was fairly rapid. They also said that there was quite a difference in volume from her debut at Covent Garden in 1952 to her Tosca in 1964. However, they all said that, apart from that final performance in London in 1965, there was never any trouble hearing her. Apparently even in those late concerts with Di Stefano she could still provide quite a bit of volume. Her sheer magnetism was never in doubt. When she was on stage it was hard to take your eyes off her.

Nobody is denying that the voice deteriorated, nor that its decline was quite rapid. I am a huge Callas fan, but even I sometimes find it difficult to listen to some of her late recitals, the curdled tone and the harsh, strident notes above the stave. That's usually when I'm only half listening. On other occasions the artistry still draws me in and I hear the musicality and the imagination, which make the faults less noticeable. I would never recommend these recordings to the uninitiated, but they do have their place in the Callas canon. I remember that when EMI first released some of the previously unissued material, I asked to listen to some of it in my local record shop (what halycon days were those). I think the track they played for me was _O madre dal cielo_ from *I Lombardi*. Put off by the harsh sounds coming from the speakers in the istening booth, I left the shop without buying the disc. I already had quite a few Callas discs by then, but this just didn't sound like her, I thought. However, somehow those tones kept resounding in my mind's ear and I went back and purchased the disc and I never regretted it. Once I got used to the change in the voice I was able to appreciated the beauties (yes, that word) of the interpretations, as well as some wonderful music that was new to me at the time.


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

I see the replies are beside the point so I stop here.


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## Viardots (Oct 4, 2014)

khalid said:


> I see the replies are beside the point so I stop here.


If what you're seeking after is to explore the reasons leading to Callas' vocal decline, you might wish to refer to this thread:

Investigation into the reason for Callas' vocal decline


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## khalid (11 mo ago)

Viardots said:


> If what you're seeking after is to explore the reasons leading to Callas' vocal decline, you might wish to refer to this thread:
> 
> Investigation into the reason for Callas' vocal decline


This is interesting, thanks.


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