# Your Top 10 American Composers



## Morimur

Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing...

01. Morton Feldman
02. Harry Partch
03. John Cage
04. Elliott Carter
05. Henry Cowell
06. Charles Ives
07. Conlon Nancarrow 
08. Milton Babbitt
09. Samuel Barber
10. Michael Hersch


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## violadude

In honor of America producing so many renegade composers, I randomized the list order.

Actually, I just brainstormed all my favorite American composers and was too lazy to put them in the proper order once I figured out the ranking.

3. Barber 
1. Ives
2. Carter
6. Crumb
8. Cage
4.Copland 
5. Adams
7. Reich
10. Feldman
9. Partch


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## Epilogue

Objectively - insofar as that's possible, blah blah - Steve Reich is probably the most important (unless we're allowed to count popular music, by which I don't mean Gershwin, who obviously counts anyway, but Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix), which just makes me so miserable that I can't even think about it any more, so moving right along to personal favorites, in chronological order:

Stephen Foster
Charles Ives
Jerome Kern
Henry Cowell
George Gershwin
Duke Ellington and/or Billy Strayhorn
Aaron Copland (though dear God is the public radio station around here putting a strain on this one)
Harry Partch
Harold Arlen
Leonard Bernstein

Honorable mention: William Billings, George Crumb


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## musicrom

Going mainly off of my master list, and making some adjustments, this is what I ended up with:

1. Charles Ives
2. Philip Glass
3. Samuel Barber
4. Arthur Foote
5. Aaron Copland
6. Leonard Bernstein
7. Morton Feldman
8. Charles Tomlinson Griffes
9. Elliott Carter
10. Steve Reich


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## Morimur

No one likes Hersch around here? A bloody shame.


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## Epilogue

First I've heard of him. Recommendations re particular works?


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## GreenMamba

I'm not counting Stravinsky as American or Ellington as Classical.

Ives
Reich
Copland
Carter
Adams
Feldman
Sessions
Barber
Harris
Oliveros


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## Morimur

Epilogue said:


> First I've heard of him. Recommendations re particular works?


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## tortkis

John Luther Adams
John Cage
Morton Feldman
Lou Harrison
Charles Ives
Conlon Nancarrow
Harry Partch
Steve Reich
Terry Riley
La Monte Young

(alphabetical order)


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## Epilogue

@Morimur

Thank you!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

1. Carter
2. Crumb
3. Feldman
4. Coates
5. Cage
6. Hersch
7. Ives
8. Reich
9. Antheil
10. Partch


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## Hmmbug

Ives
Ornstein
Sessions
Cowell
Adams
Copland
Carter
Barber
Cage
Crumb

In no particular order.


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## MoonlightSonata

Barber
Copland
Crumb
Cage
Feldman
Ives
Glass
Riley
Adams
Reich

(in a sort of vague order, but nothing too specific)


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## violadude

Does anyone here consider Edgard Varese as an American composer? I know he's sometimes referred to as one because he spent so much of his career in America (similar to how Handel is sometimes considered an English composer, even though he was born in Halle).

On one hand, he perfectly embodies the Emersonian extreme individualist mentality that permeates American culture and its composer's music. On the other hand, his passion for using timbre as a key structural device in his compositions kind of fits very well with the French musical aesthetic, especially around the turn of the century.

Thoughts?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

What the hell? Since when do people call Handel English or Varese American? That's like calling Schoenberg American or Copland Mexican!


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## Epilogue

Varese may be an extreme individualist, but ain't nothing necessarily Emersonian or American about that. cf. Berlioz, Chabrier, Satie, Debussy (whose weirdness is less apparent only because he was so good that he made it the world's new norm).

The strange thing to me is why the third big individualist country, England, doesn't produce an equal share of eccentrics. (They certainly manage well enough in literature.)


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## PeterFromLA

No special order (though Reich and Feldman are my top two)

Reich
Feldman
Cage
Thomson
Corigliano
Carter
Glass
Adams
Ives
Rzewski

Honorable mention to Pauline Oliveros, James Tenney, George Crumb, Earl Brown, Lou Harrison, Aaron Copland.


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## joen_cph

Immediate favourites 8and subject to change) probably

Barber
Crumb
Rochberg
Carter
Dlugoszewski (based on _Fire Fragile Flight_)
Crawford-Seeger
Corigliano (based on his _piano concerto _only)
Copland
Hovhaness (counted as American here). 
Rudhyar, or Cowell.


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## violadude

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> What the hell? Since when do people call Handel English or Varese American? That's like calling Schoenberg American or Copland Mexican!


I've heard plenty of people refer to Handel as an English composer, as well as Varese an American composer. You or anyone else might not like it and it might even be wrong, but it is what it is at the moment.


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## joen_cph

Epilogue said:


> Varese may be an extreme individualist, but ain't nothing necessarily Emersonian or American about that. cf. Berlioz, Chabrier, Satie, Debussy (whose weirdness is less apparent only because he was so good that he made it the world's new norm).
> 
> The strange thing to me is why the third big individualist country, England, doesn't produce an equal share of eccentrics. (They certainly manage well enough in literature.)


On top of my head, the biggest, earlier English eccentrics were probably Lord Berners (but his style imitated the French, it seems), Foulds, and Sorabji. Some others had controversial views or life philosophies at times, but were musically somewhat conservative - like George Lloyd, Alan Bush, or (maybe) Tippett.


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## tdc

Ives
Crumb
Carter
Copland
Reich
Cage
Rzewski
Partch 
Glass
Barber


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## Guest

Coates.

Irrespective of her country of residence!


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## Nereffid

Handel spent 21 years of his life in Germany, 4 in Italy, and 49 in Britain, the last 32 of those as a naturalised British citizen. Not unreasonable grounds for calling him British.

Anyway, here's some Americans, in the order in which I thought of them:
Reich Glass Adams Copland Barber Ives Lang Wolfe Crumb Bernstein


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## GioCar

My top 5, more or less in that order

Carter
Ives
Feldman
Reich
Crumb

then, in alphabetical order

Adams J.C. (pre-year 2000)
Cage (I do like very much some of his works only)
Copland
Gershwin
Glass (before he started repeating himself)

honorable mention to 
Barber: beside the overplayed Adagio, I'm familiar with the amazing _Knoxville: Summer of 1915_ and the _cello concerto_ only.
Rzewski: I only know his set of variations on _The People United Will Never Be Defeated. _If the rest of his output is of the same level, he surely enters my top 10.

I'm not familiar with Partch and some others mentioned so far, so maybe my list will change shortly....


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## Guest

violadude said:


> I've heard plenty of people refer to Handel as an English composer, as well as Varese an American composer. You or anyone else might not like it and it might even be wrong, but it is what it is at the moment.


I've always thought that Handel was a German who lived in England, Varese was a Frenchman who lived in the U.S. Or perhaps it could be put this way, Handel was an English composer born in Germany. Varese was an American composer born in France.

Two points. People move around. A lot. Always have.

The idea of "nation" dates from about Handel's time. So for him it would have been a new idea.

Bonus point, I don't think it's a very good idea. Let's scrap it!!

Now I'm going to go start my own thread....


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## Delicious Manager

In alphabetical order:

John Adams
John Corigliano
Michael Daugherty (sorry!)
Charles Tomlinson Griffes
John Harbison
Charles Ives
George Rochberg
Carl Ruggles
William Schuman
Joseph Schwantner

*NB* I don't count emigré composers such as Bloch, Husa, Korngold, Rózsa, Varèse as 'American'.


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## Guest

Delicious Manager said:


> *NB* I don't count emigré composers such as Bloch, Husa, Korngold, Rózsa, Varèse as 'American'.


A good reason to scrap the idea, I think!


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## Nereffid

Delicious Manager said:


> Michael Daugherty (sorry!)


Apology accepted!
:cheers:

... wait, what are you apologising for, exactly? Is Michael Daugherty on a blacklist?


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## haydnfan

I rarely listen to American classical, but Carter is by far my favorite.


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## Morimur

Epilogue said:


> Varese may be an extreme individualist, but ain't nothing necessarily Emersonian or American about that. cf. Berlioz, Chabrier, Satie, Debussy (whose weirdness is less apparent only because he was so good that he made it the world's new norm).
> 
> The strange thing to me is why the third big individualist country, England, doesn't produce an equal share of eccentrics. (They certainly manage well enough in literature.)


Well, presently there are several: Ferneyhough, Finnissy, Barrett, and James Dillon-among others.


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## Morimur

I had totally forgotten about *Jason Eckardt*...










As far as new American composers are concerned, I think *Michael Hersch* and *Jason Eckardt* are at the top of the heap.


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## elgar's ghost

Hardcore favourites (i.e. I have a fair amount of their work and like most of it):

Ives, Bernstein, Copland, Rorem, Barber, Antheil, Reich.

I have various works by quite a number of other American composers but not sufficiently representative or numerous to justify making the list up to ten.

I too have avoiding including composers who acquired US citizenship otherwise Stravinsky, Weill and Hindemith would have been in like a shot.

I've recently been acquainted with three discs of Michael Daugherty's work - I like it and plan on getting more, but whether it endures only time will tell.


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## Rangstrom

The ones I listen to quite a bit (in no special order):

Rzewski
Rochberg
Harris
Schuman
Mennin
Sessions
Copland
Harrison
Ives
Barber


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## Kivimees

In some sort of order:

Copland
Barber
Griffes
Piston
Schuman
Gallagher
Bernstein
Carter 
Foote
MacDowell


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## Orfeo

I agree with all of the above. For me:

David Diamond
Charles Ives
Duke Ellington
William Grant Still
Paul Creston
Samuel Barber
Howard Hanson
Walter Piston
Louis Moreau Gottschalk
Scott Joplin
-->And not in this order.

Honorable mentions: Leonard Bernstein, Copland, Gershwin, Glass, Amy March Cheney Beach, Ruth Seeger, Pete Seeger, Stephen Foster, Deems Taylor.


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## Art Rock

1. 
Samuel Barber

2-10. 
John Cage
Steve Reich
Howard Hanson
Aaron Copland
Christopher Rouse
Amy Beach
George Gershwin
John Adams
Philip Glass


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## Skilmarilion

Composers who have works among my "top tier favourite works" (however long such a list might be):

Glass
Reich
J. Luther Adams
Riley
Barber
Ives

N.B. I really, really, really need to listen to more John Adams. Been meaning to do exactly that for a long while. What I have heard of his, I've really liked. Nothing more to be said.


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## Simon Moon

Carter my favorite, but the rest are in no particular order.

Elliott Carter
Joseph Schwantner
Samuel Barber
Joan Tower
George Rochberg
John Corigliano 
Steve Reich
Charles Ives
Charles Wuorinen
Philip Glass


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Oh man, I can't believe I forgot Wuorinen and Ornstein. 

And how are people not considering Babbit?


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## Faustian

1. Charles Ives
2. George Gershwin
3. Aron Copland
4. Samuel Barber
5. John Adams
6. John Corigliano
7. Steve Reich
8. Roger Sessions
9. Leonard Bernstein
10. William Schuman


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## mmsbls

Orfeo said:


> I agree with all of the above. For me:
> 
> David Diamond
> Charles Ives
> Duke Ellington
> William Grant Still
> Paul Creston
> Samuel Barber
> Howard Hanson
> Walter Piston
> Louis Moreau Gottschalk
> Scott Joplin


I love the mention of Gottschalk whose works I adore. Unfortunately he was too busy performing, supporting his family, and dying early to write more.


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## mmsbls

I'm generally happy to join in the list threads, but I haven't thought hard enough about these composers to make a sensible list yet. I would simply list all those whose works I really like (much more than 10).


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## Blancrocher

For anyone interested, a recent piece from Tom Service about the American composer George Walker:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...lker-african-american-composer-pulitzer-prize

I've heard various short pieces by him in concerts here and there, but I'm enjoying finding out more about his work. I particularly like his setting of Whitman, called "Lilacs."


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## haydnfan

This thread motivated me to buy a Reich cd, never tried him before.


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## Epilogue

Which CD? (Please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_...)


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## Epilogue

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> And how are people not considering Babbit?


Now that you mention it, yes, I should at least add him to my honorable mentions. He's got the good parts of Carter - an appreciation for Schoenberg; irritates the Downtown suede and denim secret police - without the embarrassing smugness.


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## Art Rock

haydnfan said:


> This thread motivated me to buy a Reich cd, never tried him before.


I'd recommend Different trains by the Kronos Quartet.


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## Epilogue

Oh, wait, we're assuming haydnfan is still deciding which CD to buy? Then come on, people, the correct choice is the 1978 _Music for 18 Musicians_ and you all know it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Epilogue said:


> Oh, wait, we're assuming haydnfan is still deciding which CD to buy? Then come on, people, the correct choice is the 1978 _Music for 18 Musicians_ and you all know it.


I second that. But don't forget _Drumming_ which is his ultimate phase composition from his phase phase.


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## Orfeo

mmsbls said:


> I love the mention of Gottschalk whose works I adore. Unfortunately he was too busy performing, supporting his family, and dying early to write more.


I only began to know his music after reading much about him, and like essentially everything I've heard so far (the Offenbach of the Americas I find myself calling him, though with a slightly more seriousness here and there). And yes, I agree; he performed too much and passed on too early.


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## Guest

1. Cage
2. Carter
3. Feldman
4. Partch
5. Ives
6. Babbitt
7. Lucier
8. Wuorinen
9. Eckardt
10. Hersch


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## ptr

I honestly don't know enough "American" composers to have a judged opinion!

/ptr


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## haydnfan

Epilogue said:


> Which CD? (Please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_...)


I bought WTC 9/11, Mallet Quartet, Dance Patterns.


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## haydnfan

Epilogue said:


> Oh, wait, we're assuming haydnfan is still deciding which CD to buy? Then come on, people, the correct choice is the 1978 _Music for 18 Musicians_ and you all know it.


You had the right assumption I used past tense in my post. But I can try something else mentioned here in the future.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

If you're gonna go recent works of Steve Reich, this is awesome


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## violadude

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> If you're gonna go recent works of Steve Reich, this is awesome


Woah, I saw this disc at my library today.


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## Avey

Epilogue said:


> Which CD? (Please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_, please not _Different Trains_...)


...? Why would you _not_ have that composition?


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## Avey

ptr said:


> I honestly don't know enough "American" composers to have a judged opinion!
> 
> /ptr


Oh, stop. What, is that like the first time you don't "know enough"? I don't buy it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

violadude said:


> Woah, I saw this disc at my library today.


Go back, borrow it!


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## ptr

Avey said:


> Oh, stop. What, is that like the first time you don't "know enough"? I don't buy it.


Self pitying irony I guess... I've ment to dive deeper in to the "non popular music" of the Americas, but I always seem to get distracted by more important issues like "what's for dinner" or "what is that grey matter growing on my tummy"... And then, the fact that I am a snob that refuse to acknowledge that the US has anything culturally important to bring to the table outside its degenerate commercial Hollywood smut! 

Awaiting abuse!

/ptr


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## haydnfan

ptr said:


> Awaiting abuse!


Are correction treatments are not abusive, they're quite humane.:devil:


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## ptr

^^ Last I visited Beijing I had some acupuncture on my face (and head), I looked something like the picture above, t'was a swell feeling afterwords! Gave moi some craving for that ol' Ludwig van...

/ptr


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## Fugue Meister

So I'm reading this thread and I'm reading... Page after page, post upon post and William Schuman's name comes up a mere four times?! Really? To me he's my main guy (of the American variety) Frankly, I'm surprised he's not on more of the lists. 

So mine is ..

1- W. Schuman
2- S. Barber
3- C. Ives
4- H. Partch
5- W. Riegger
6- C. Ruggles
7- J. Cage
8- S. Reich
9- G. Crumb
10 G Gershwin

I will admit I'm still exploring and I've made a list from some of the names I've seen here on this thread that I'm unfamiliar with. What do people think of this Peter Mennin fellow?


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## hpowders

In real time and in no particular order:

1. Schuman

2. Copland

3. Persichetti

4. Ives

5. Harris

6. Creston

7. Piston

8. Bernstein

9. Barber

10. Mennin


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## Tallisman

Barber and Ives


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## Bettina

1. Copland
2. Gershwin
3. Bernstein
4. Bloch (does he count? He was born in Switzerland but later became an American citizen)
5. Barber
6. Joplin
7. Griffes
8. Piston
9. Beach
10. MacDowell


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## Klassik

Bettina said:


> 4. Bloch (does he count? He was born in Switzerland but later became an American citizen)


I don't know, it's hard to say. Stravinsky became a US citizen, but I don't think many consider him to be an American composer. I'm surprised you didn't go with Ferde Grofé. A native born American who has a name with a diacritical mark! He would be in my top 10, but I guess I'm the only member of the Grofé fan club.


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## millionrainbows

Charles Ives
Frank Zappa
John Cage
Aaron Copland
Milton Babbitt
Morton Feldman
Elliott Carter
Edgar Varese
Steve Reich
Terry Riley


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## Bettina

Klassik said:


> I don't know, it's hard to say. Stravinsky became a US citizen, but I don't think many consider him to be an American composer. I'm surprised you didn't go with Ferde Grofé. A native born American who has a name with a diacritical mark! He would be in my top 10, but I guess I'm the only member of the Grofé fan club.


I must admit that I have never heard of Grofé.  Quite a shameful confession for an umlaut-lover (and US citizen) such as myself! Thanks for letting me know about him. I'll have a listen to some of his works on youtube, and if I like what I hear, I'll buy some CDs (and then I'll probably paste the CD covers into my diacritical scrapbook:lol.


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## malvinrisan

My favorite is Ives. Also he is the only one i have listened a lot to.


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## 20centrfuge

1. Samuel Barber - Violin Concerto, Symphony No.1, School for Scandal, Adagio for Strings, etc.
2. John Adams - Nixon in China, Harmonielehre, Short Ride in a Fast Machine, etc.
3. Aaron Copland - Piano Concerto, Piano Sonata, Appalachian Spring, Fanfare for the Common Man
4. Leonard Bernstein - Chichester Psalms, West Side Story
5. George Crumb - Ancient Voices of Children
6. William Schuman - Symphony No.3
7. John Corigliano - Symphony No.1
8. Roy Harris - Symphony No.3
9. Charles Ives - Unanswered Question, Symphony No.4
10. Howard Hanson - Symphony No.2
11. Elliott Carter - I still need to explore

Carter is probably a more skilled composer than most on that list, but I went mostly with whose music I enjoy the most.


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## Klassik

Bettina said:


> I must admit that I have never heard of Grofé.  Quite a shameful confession for an umlaut-lover (and US citizen) such as myself! Thanks for letting me know about him. I'll have a listen to some of his works on youtube, and if I like what I hear, I'll buy some CDs (and then I'll probably paste the CD covers into my diacritical scrapbook:lol.


Grofé, especially his Grand Canyon Suite, was quite popular at one time. I'm not sure why his popularity has fallen in the last couple of decades, but his works are worth checking out. Grofé is also famous for orchestrating Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue.

The funny thing is that my last name should use an "é" at the end to be pronounced correctly, but my family has never used it. We've just come to accept that people will not pronounce it correctly most of the time! It's a good thing that I'm not a famous composer or else you'd probably post a complaint that I don't use diacritical marks! :lol:


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## pokeefe0001

I just noticed this thread and had to read to the end to find Hanson. Not very popular any more, I guess.


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## Selby

joen_cph said:


> Immediate favourites 8and subject to change) probably
> 
> Barber
> Crumb
> Rochberg
> Carter
> Dlugoszewski (based on _Fire Fragile Flight_)
> Crawford-Seeger
> Corigliano (based on his _piano concerto _only)
> Copland
> Hovhaness (counted as American here).
> Rudhyar, or Cowell.


FYI Hovhaness was born in the US (Massachusetts). He is definitely American.


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## Tchaikov6

1. Barber
2. Gershwin
3. Copland
4. Ives
5. Bernstein
6. Schuman
7. Adams
8. Hovhaness
9. Crumb.... iffy
10. Corigliano I guess, though I don't really like him that much.


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## Phil loves classical

1. Varese
2. Diamond
3. Hovhaness
4. Hanson
5. Barber
6. Virgil Thomson
7. Korngold
8. Gershwin
9. Copland
10. Ives


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## hpowders

malvinrisan said:


> My favorite is Ives. Also he is the only one i have listened a lot to.


Are you familiar with the Concord Piano Sonata? It is my favorite Ives composition.


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## hpowders

Of course, some of these composers were simply toddlers when this thread commenced.


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## Melvin

Does any one like Benjamin Lees?
I swear I love this CD


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## Tchaikov6

hpowders said:


> Are you familiar with the Concord Piano Sonata? It is my favorite Ives composition.


Also lovely are the string quartets, the scherzo "Holding your Own," and the delightful "Country Band March," which IMO is much better than any of the Sousa marches- Ives had such a great sense of humor!


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## hpowders

Tchaikov6 said:


> Also lovely are the string quartets, the scherzo "Holding your Own," and the delightful "Country Band March," which IMO is much better than any of the Sousa marches- Ives had such a great sense of humor!


I also love the Third Symphony; a warm New England Sunday involving church going and relaxation afterward among family and friends....a long time ago.

Such beautiful, nostalgic music.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Grofé, especially his Grand Canyon Suite, was quite popular at one time. I'm not sure why his popularity has fallen in the last couple of decades, but his works are worth checking out. Grofé is also famous for orchestrating Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue.
> 
> The funny thing is that my last name should use an "é" at the end to be pronounced correctly, but my family has never used it. We've just come to accept that people will not pronounce it correctly most of the time! It's a good thing that I'm not a famous composer or else you'd probably post a complaint that I don't use diacritical marks! :lol:


Yes, it sure was!! I remember as a kid watching some western series every week on TV and the theme music was from Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite. Also, the Boston Pops under Arthur Fiedler used to perform it live once in a while.

Those days are over.....a more innocent time.


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## jdec

A lot of good mentions already. 

I would also add composers like Heitor Villa-Lobos, Alberto Ginastera, Silvestre Revueltas. (Yes they are Americans too)


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## Tchaikov6

jdec said:


> A lot of good mentions already.
> 
> I would also add composers like Heitor Villa-Lobos, Alberto Ginastera, Silvestre Revueltas. (Yes they are Americans too)


As fiercely nationalistic composers, I don't think Villa-Lobos, Ginastera, or Revueltas would like to be called American.


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## Chronochromie

Tchaikov6 said:


> As fiercely nationalistic composers, I don't think Villa-Lobos, Ginastera, or Revueltas would like to be called American.


There is another definition of that word, and in that sense they are indeed American.


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## Tchaikov6

Chronochromie said:


> There is another definition of that word, and in that sense they are indeed American.


What definition is this?


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## Chronochromie

Tchaikov6 said:


> What definition is this?


"A native or inhabitant of North America or South America".

Also you'll find that some people (I couldn't care less) in Latin America don't really like that US citizens call their country "America" and themselves "American". "America" is most often used to refer to the continent (North, South and Central America together) and Americans are usually called "estadounidenses", something like "unitedstatians".


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> I don't know, it's hard to say. Stravinsky became a US citizen, but I don't think many consider him to be an American composer. I'm surprised you didn't go with Ferde Grofé. A native born American who has a name with a diacritical mark! He would be in my top 10, but I guess I'm the only member of the Grofé fan club.


Oh come on now. We ain't talkin' naturalized American citizens.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> Yes, it sure was!! I remember as a kid watching some western series every week on TV and the theme music was from Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite. Also, the Boston Pops under Arthur Fiedler used to perform it live once in a while.
> 
> Those days are over.....a more innocent time.


Was it on in the evenings? According to Wikipedia, Grofé was also once a milkman and paperboy. Perhaps when the intro song for the TV show Full House went:



> Whatever happened to predictability. The milkman, the paperboy, evening tv?


They were really talking about Ferde Grofé?

_Why am I talking about Full House? I might be losing my marbles!_


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Was it on in the evenings? According to Wikipedia, Grofé was also once a milkman and paperboy. Perhaps when the intro song for the TV show Full House went:
> 
> They were really talking about Ferde Grofé?
> 
> _Why am I talking about Full House? I might be losing my marbles!_


No. I used to watch the Westerns when I got home from school-around 4 PM. One of them had Dvorak's New World Symphony as background music also.

It was either the Westerns or Officer Joe Bolton and the Three Stooges!


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> No. I used to watch the Westerns when I got home from school-around 4 PM. One of them had Dvorak's New World Symphony as background music also.
> 
> It was either the Westerns or Officer Joe Bolton and the Three Stooges!


I probably would have picked the Three Stooges, but Grofé and Dvorak would have been tempting!

Since Grofé was a milkman, I wonder if he hummed his own tunes? :lol:


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> I probably would have picked the Three Stooges, but Grofé and Dvorak would have been tempting!
> 
> Since Grofé was a milkman, I wonder if he hummed his own tunes? :lol:


You know, Larry Fine, the one with the bushy hair, was a pretty fair violinist.


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## Tchaikov6

Chronochromie said:


> "A native or inhabitant of North America or South America".
> 
> Also you'll find that some people (I couldn't care less) in Latin America don't really like that US citizens call their country "America" and themselves "American". "America" is most often used to refer to the continent (North, South and Central America together) and Americans are usually called "estadounidenses", something like "unitedstatians".


Yes but obviously that's not what the OP was asking for- you're overthinking it. In English (which is TC's language) American is the United States of America.


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## jdec

Tchaikov6 said:


> In English (which is TC's language) American is the United States of America.


Well, in English, words like Asians, Africans, Europeans are used too to denote people from those continents. So people from any part of the American Continent, are Americans too in my view.


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## Chronochromie

Tchaikov6 said:


> Yes but obviously that's not what the OP was asking for- you're overthinking it. In English (which is TC's language) American is the United States of America.


I'm not overthinking anything, I was responding to your assertion, which was technically incorrect. and as the Merriam-Webster says, that may be the usual meaning of American but it's not the only one.


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## Tchaikov6

Chronochromie said:


> I'm not overthinking anything, I was responding to your assertion, which was technically incorrect. and as the Merriam-Webster says, that may be the usual meaning of American but it's not the only one.


Exactly, and if someone asked you if Villa-Lobos was an American composer, they would be asking if he lived in the United States of America, or was from there, or lived there for most of his life- which he didn't- if you responded yes to the question, the person would assume that you mean that Villa-Lobos is from the United States of America, when he's really not.


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## Chronochromie

Tchaikov6 said:


> Exactly, and if someone asked you if Villa-Lobos was an American composer, they would be asking if he lived in the United States of America, or was from there, or lived there for most of his life- which he didn't- if you responded yes to the question, the person would assume that you mean that Villa-Lobos is from the United States of America, when he's really not.


When I first saw the thread I thought it was referring to composers from the US, but member jdec made a point of including composers that are "American" in another definition of the word, maybe not as common but valid and I could see why one could interpret the thread title like that.


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## Vaneyes

Schoenberg, Krenek, Wolpe, Barber, Wuorinen, Carter, Hovhaness, Ives, Adams, Varese.


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## Vaneyes

Chronochromie said:


> When I first saw the thread I thought it was referring to composers from the US, but member jdec made a point of including composers that are "American" in another definition of the word, maybe not as common but valid and I could see why one could interpret the thread title like that.


Reading almost two thousand pages of STI will make either side a winner, and allow all to sleep better.


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## Chronochromie

Vaneyes said:


> Reading almost two thousand pages of STI will make either side a winner, and allow all to sleep better.


Outside of this forum that acronym in this context would get you funny looks! (Stupid Thread Ideas for those wondering).


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## KenOC

Chronochromie said:


> Outside of this forum that acronym in this context would get you funny looks! (Stupid Thread Ideas for those wondering).


STI? Sexually transmitted information? Sounds like an interesting concept!


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## millionrainbows

Chronochromie said:


> When I first saw the thread I thought it was referring to composers from the US, but member jdec made a point of including composers that are "American" in another definition of the word, maybe not as common but valid and I could see why one could interpret the thread title like that.


Well, if we're going to play it that way, then I'll have to include Mahler in my list of American composers.


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## millionrainbows

Chronochromie said:


> When I first saw the thread I thought it was referring to composers from the US, but member jdec made a point of including composers that are "American" in another definition of the word, maybe not as common but valid and I could see why one could interpret the thread title like that.


Well, if we're going to play it that way, then I'll have to include Mahler in my list of American composers.

New definition of "American:" whoever Germany kicked out in the 1930's (and before).


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## Chronochromie

millionrainbows said:


> Well, if we're going to play it that way, then I'll have to include Mahler in my list of American composers.
> 
> New definition of "American:" whoever Germany kicked out in the 1930's.


I don't remember reading about Zombie Mahler roaming around 30s New York.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Of those American classical composers I've spent some decent time listening to, there's only one I'm especially fond of---Samuel Barber.


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## millionrainbows

Chronochromie said:


> I don't remember reading about Zombie Mahler roaming around 30s New York.


See my edit. I'm so *sick* of zombies.


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## Brahmsian Colors

hpowders said:


> Yes, it sure was!! I remember as a kid watching some western series every week on TV and the theme music was from Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite. Also, the Boston Pops under Arthur Fiedler used to perform it live once in a while.
> 
> Those days are over.....a more innocent time.


Johnny, the bell hop..."Call for Philip Morris" cigarettes commercial on tv during the 1950s, with Grofe's "On the Trail" theme from his _Grand Canyon Suite_ playing in the background.


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## mtmailey

Where is george gershwin on the list?you know he had some great works like the concerto in F


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## Selby

I think my list would be something like:

Alan Hovhaness
Morty Feldman
Chuck Ives
Philip Glass
John Cage
Vincent Persichetti
George Flynn
Sam Barber

Tim Berne
Vijay Iyer
(if allowed)


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## bigboy

This is one of the few replies that I've seen that mentions Philip Glass. I'm not of a fan of his work, but if one were to ask this question on some other websites, one could be sure to see his name mentioned in almost every reply. I think the immediate accessibility of some of his music might explain this latter observation, but doesn't account for his absence here. Is there an anti-Glass sentiment simmering here, or am I guilty of confirmation bias?


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## Nereffid

bigboy said:


> This is one of the few replies that I've seen that mentions Philip Glass. I'm not of a fan of his work, but if one were to ask this question on some other websites, one could be sure to see his name mentioned in almost every reply. I think the immediate accessibility of some of his music might explain this latter observation, but doesn't account for his absence here. Is there an anti-Glass sentiment simmering here, or am I guilty of confirmation bias?


Don't know about an actively anti-Glass sentiment, but he's certainly not hugely popular here.

Hey look, someone actually added up how many votes each composer got so far!

30 Ives
27 Barber
21 Copland
17 Reich
15 Carter
14 Cage
13 Adams
12 Feldman
11 Crumb
10 Bernstein
10 Glass
8 Gershwin
8 Partch
8 Schuman
7 Corigliano
5 Hovhaness


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## Klassik

Nereffid said:


> Don't know about an actively anti-Glass sentiment, but he's certainly not hugely popular here.
> 
> Hey look, someone actually added up how many votes each composer got so far!
> 
> 30 Ives
> 27 Barber
> 21 Copland
> 17 Reich
> 15 Carter
> 14 Cage
> 13 Adams
> 12 Feldman
> 11 Crumb
> 10 Bernstein
> 10 Glass
> 8 Gershwin
> 8 Partch
> 8 Schuman
> 7 Corigliano
> 5 Hovhaness


The lack of "votes" for Gershwin and Adams is shameful IMO. Even the "other" John Adams is better than some of the names on this list IMO. But, hey, that's just my opinion.

I'm not sure what my top 10 would look like, but as mentioned earlier, I would put Grofé on it. Unlike Fantasia, even Disney knew not to ruin Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite by putting that mickey mouse cartoon rodent on there.


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## Tchaikov6

Chronochromie said:


> When I first saw the thread I thought it was referring to composers from the US, but member jdec made a point of including composers that are "American" in another definition of the word, maybe not as common but valid and I could see why one could interpret the thread title like that.


Well, if that's what they meant, I think they would have indicated it- Top 10 composers from Western Hemisphere, Top 10 composers from the Americas- Top 10 composers from North and South America, etc.


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## Nereffid

Klassik said:


> The lack of "votes" for Gershwin and Adams is shameful IMO. Even the "other" John Adams is better than some of the names on this list IMO. But, hey, that's just my opinion.


I wonder if Gershwin suffers from not having a large output of strictly classical compositions. But the voters do seem a little weighted towards the modernist end of things.


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## Klassik

Nereffid said:


> I wonder if Gershwin suffers from not having a large output of strictly classical compositions. But the voters do seem a little weighted towards the modernist end of things.


Maybe so, I don't know. A lot of the 2015 posters seem completely foreign to me even though it was only two years ago. There may also be a situation where posters are just repeating the names others have listed before them without really thinking about it independently.


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## violadude

Ives
Carter
Partch
Copland
Reich
Adams
Feldman
Cage
Crumb
Barber



And Gershwin..


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## Portamento

I like Griffes (he is my favorite impressionist) Sorry debussy !!


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## bigboy

i like music said:


> I like Griffes (he is my favorite impressionist) Sorry debussy !!


Do you have a particular recording of one of his pieces that you'd recommend?


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## Portamento

bigboy said:


> Do you have a particular recording of one of his pieces that you'd recommend?


Yes! His piano sonata is his magnum opus . This recording is great:

https://www.amazon.com/Griffes-Piano-Music-Garrick-Ohlsson/dp/B00BPV5F76

(hyperion)


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## bigboy

i like music said:


> Yes! His piano sonata is his magnum opus .


Oh wowow, that really is quite nice- thanks!


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## Phil loves classical

Klassik said:


> The lack of "votes" for Gershwin and Adams is shameful IMO. Even the "other" John Adams is better than some of the names on this list IMO. But, hey, that's just my opinion.
> 
> I'm not sure what my top 10 would look like, but as mentioned earlier, I would put Grofé on it. Unlike Fantasia, even Disney knew not to ruin Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite by putting that mickey mouse cartoon rodent on there.


Ah, will be going there in a couple days for a week.


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## Portamento

Phil loves classical said:


> Ah, will be going there in a couple days for a week.


Nice ! I have never been to the grand canyon. Hope you enjoy !


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## Quartetfore

Phil loves classical said:


> Ah, will be going there in a couple days for a week.


I`m with you when it comes to George Gershwin, a very talented man. About a week ago I heard American in Paris played at a concert, its a very enjoyable work.


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## Phil loves classical

i like music said:


> Nice ! I have never been to the grand canyon. Hope you enjoy !


Thanks. As much as I love music, if forced to choose between music and nature, i would give up music without a flinch.


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## Tchaikov6

Phil loves classical said:


> Thanks. As much as I love music, if forced to choose between music and nature, i would give up music without a flinch.


Well, wouldn't everyone? Without nature- well, humans have never known life _without_ nature- without it, we would all die. So much music was inspired by nature as well (Mahler symphonies, Beethoven Pastoral Symphony, several Vaughan Williams symphonies, many bird-song inspired music). And of course Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite.


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## Klassik

Phil loves classical said:


> Ah, will be going there in a couple days for a week.


I'm sure you will enjoy it!

On the topic of Grofé, while the Grand Canyon Suite might be his best known suite, I think his Niagara Falls Suite might be my favorite (though several of his suites are obscure so I've not heard them). It's powerful and bombastic, but not over the top IMO.


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## Pugg

Phil loves classical said:


> Ah, will be going there in a couple days for a week.


Like to visit that place also, must be breathtaking views.


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## Hurrian

In no implied order:

Ives
Rochberg
Barber
Adams
Crumb
Carter
Cage
Copland
Hovhaness
Schuman


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## David OByrne

Ives, Beethoven, Dvorshak and Copland


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## hpowders

In real time:

Schuman

Persichetti

Mennin

Ives

Copland

Bernstein

Barber

Piston

Harris

Rouse


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## Pugg

David OByrne said:


> Ives, Beethoven, Dvorshak and Copland


 I see what you are doing there.


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## bigboy

I can't seem to find anyone else mentioning him, so for sake of completeness I'll mention William Bolcom.

I think he really has done an interesting job of making the case for 20th century Americana being "serious" music, perhaps most convincingly in his adaptions of William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience, and maybe to a lesser extent in his Violin Sonata #2.


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## Omicron9

My favorite American composers in no order:

Ives
Carter
Cowell
Crumb
Feldman

A side note: in Ives' later years, Carter would come to pick him up and take him to BSO concerts. Imagine being in the audience and looking over to see Ives and Carter sitting next to you. 

-09


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## christomacin

A more conservative list based on contributions to the standard concert repertoire:
1. Aaron Copland
2. George Gershwin
3. Samuel Barber
4. Leonard Bernstein
5. Charles Ives
6. Alan Hovhaness
7. William Grant Still
8. George Whitefield Chadwick
9. Charles Tomlinson Griffes
10. Carlisle Floyd


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