# Which composing software do you use?



## Oneiros

Hey, just wondering what software you all use for composing. I recently bought Finale 2007, and quite like it. I have tried some others, such as Sibelius and Vivaldi, but so far Finale seems the easiest to use. Also I must say the instruments sound surprisingly realistic... The strings in particular show a great improvement over the other programs.

I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on these programs, which they prefer, why, etc.


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## IAmKing

I use Sibelius 4 at home. The school has Finale 2007 and I just can't use it. So inconvenient and confusing.


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## Edward Elgar

Sibelius 4 is definetly he best to use. The worst composing software ever, however, is Cubase SX. It's really designed for chavy dance music! Nasty!


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## Celloman

I bought Sibelius 2 right before Sibelius 3 came out...and I'm still using it!


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## IAmKing

I've only ever used Sibelius 3 and 4, both were utterly amazing. Filled with awesomely innovative tools and abilities.


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## Oneiros

Wow, all Sibelius users! I must say, having spent the whole day entering a Sonatina into Finale, it has been somewhat frustrating. >.< Makes me want to practise piano, so I can just play the piece... that would be so much easier!


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## Kurkikohtaus

I'm still on Finale 2002.

I acknowledge that Sibelius is definitely the most powerful software, I tried it for one arrangement, but I have so many Finale things ingrained in my brain that Sibelius would simply take me way too long to learn.


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## hlolli

Sibelius user please help me!

I've got problem setting up my compositions on Sibelius 4, I cannot set (I don't know the enhlish word for it, on Icelandic it is called Þríóla) the rythm thing thad is set 3 or 5 or 7 etc. thad 3 notes played on speed of two, you know what I'm talking about, what is it called and how can I use it. And another thing how do I insert the forte and fortissimo and piano and crescendo and tr. And of course generally all common words.


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## IAmKing

The "rhythm thing" you are talking about is called a tuplet in English. In Sibelius, if you want to play 3 quavers (3 8th notes) in the space of 2 create 1 of the quavers (8th notes) and click on it. Then press Ctrl and 3 and it will create the tuplet.

Generally, that is the same for all scenarios. Selecting the note value you want and the pressing Ctrl and a number (be it 3, 5, 7 etc.) will create the tuplet.

To insert dynamics choose the note or rest at which point you want to insert the dynamic and press Ctrl E.. then press Ctrl and hit F or F F or P or PP or M F etc to insert the dynamic marking. 

This should all be in the manual that should have come with your copy of Sibelius 4 though.


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## hlolli

Thanks IAmKing it helped me a lot. There are so many things thad makes writing in computers so annoying, the playback is useless(mechanical MIDI sound) it makes you think thad you put in real life playing it perhaps comes out just right and the time to input the notes makes you forget what you were going to compose.


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## IAmKing

The playback sound isn't great, no (the lack of sustain on the piano sound drives me crazy) but you can buy extension sets for it.

As for the time it takes to enter notes, I actually find Sibelius does it rather well. I can copy out a whole page of Mahler's 3rd symphony into sibelius in about 3 minutes.


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## hlolli

Yes teach me, I scanned the Mahler 5th from the musiclibrary, the 4th movement I read on regluar basis. I'll scan it and maybe you can use the Neuratron PhotoScore to save it on .opt file.

http://212.30.203.209/hlolli/sida1.jpg
http://212.30.203.209/hlolli/sida2.jpg
http://212.30.203.209/hlolli/sida3.jpg

Well, my problem is thad I have to convert it to bitmap and it only takes 256 colour, so when after frustrating long time I got it but the score had lost all it's qualaty and it was unrecognizable! If you are master at this then plz help me.


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## IAmKing

I've never used Neuratron Photoscore before. If I have time later today I'll have a go, though.


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## hlolli

when you did the Mahler 3rd you didn't scan it, you typed it!?


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## 4/4player

Unfortuantely, Im not able to afford Sibelius or Finale 2007..So I just downloaded the free version of Finale Notepad ..I find it somehwhat useful..only negative thing about it is that it only allows 8 instruments/staves per piece!Grrr!:angry: 

4/4player


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## IAmKing

hlolli said:


> when you did the Mahler 3rd you didn't scan it, you typed it!?


Not the whole thing. Only a few select passages.


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## IAmKing

4/4player said:


> Unfortuantely, Im not able to afford Sibelius or Finale 2007..So I just downloaded the free version of Finale Notepad ..I find it somehwhat useful..only negative thing about it is that it only allows 8 instruments/staves per piece!Grrr!:angry:
> 
> 4/4player


If you've only just started composing music, that may be a benefit more than a hinderence. I started composing music about 1.5 years ago (I would have been 15, same age as you now, right?) and my compositions from back then are ridiculously complicated in terms of instrumentation. These days I still have a tendency to over complicate things with ridiculously complex rhythms and tempo/time signature changes (my latest composition starts with a bar in 23/16) but I've found it much easier to compose better quality music when I limit myself to piano, or string quartet... or something simpler than a large ensemble.

After that point if you want to expand the instrumentation of a piece you can arrange the piano piece for orchestra... or whatever medium you want it in. This avoids a trap many young (around 15 years old) composers, including myself, fall into, which is attempting to give each instrument its own distinct part... which ends up creating a mass of ... well... ****.

As for acquiring Sibelius etc. Start saving. I got my copy for about $400... significantly cheaper than what the Sibelius website and many other music shops list it as... and I think you can probably even get it cheaper than that through your school, perhaps?


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## hlolli

I think Sibelius has a student edition, and you are right about composing for too many instuments, you need alot af training in orchestration and counterpoint. I am thease days composing flute duet rather easy but not as easy as many think, not used to compose on the high notes.

But IAmKing plz link me a playback plug-in for Sibelius 4 thad plays smooth like Finale does it


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## IAmKing

I use the playback whatever-it-is that came with Sibelius, and it works fine... If yours doesn't, the Sibelius forum may offer some good advise:

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/search.pl?com=main


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## Oneiros

Finale Notepad is the way to go for free composing software. Sibelius has a free demo version, but this doesn't allow you to save your work, which is a major drawback.

Another program I've tried is Vivaldi PlayAlong - this is free too, and has more features than Notepad, though it's harder to use. 4/4 Player, you might like to have a look at this one - just google 'Vivaldi Playalong', and you should be able to find it.


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## linz

4/player said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not able to afford Sibelius or Finale 2007..So I just downloaded the free version of Finale Notepad ..I find it somewhat useful..only negative thing about it is that it only allows 8 instruments/staves per piece!Grrr!:angry:
> 
> 4/4player


I use something called Noteworthy composer. You can compose a symphony on it, it is midi compatible. I can literally download a whole midi file and see the whole score. Composing I don't do much, but it is easy with this software. It cost around $25. The 'general midi' sound is less fancy then Finale or Sibelius, but it fits the budget.


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## Lisztfreak

Ever heard of 'Harmony Assistant'? I've recently installed it, and it's a bit complicated (in my opinion and with my limited experience). And what isn't complicated when you're a musical-theory-dummy?

I finished my first composition with this programme just the day before yesterday. It's a Waltz in G major for solo piano, sounds a bit mechanical, but hey - I will improve. I hope .


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## R.Zhao

Sibelius 4. Discount educational copy.


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## Edward Elgar

I have Sibelius 4 and an awsome editing program called "audacity" that I would recomend to anyone. I record from Sibelius onto audacity to get a .wav file, but I don't know how to get the .wav file to be accesable on the internet. Can anyone help?


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## IAmKing

www.putfile.com

Register for an account there... then you can upload a large range of media files.


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## Krummhorn

linz said:


> I use something called Noteworthy composer. You can compose a symphony on it, it is midi compatible. I can literally download a whole midi file and see the whole score.


I've been a user of Noteworthy Composer for the past 4 years - absolutely love it. Ok, granted it lacks all the bells and whistles of Finale or Sibelius, but for its initial cost (about $39 USD), and ease of use, it's a great application for those just starting out, imho.

Noteworthy is working on a new version (it's in beta currently) - so I'm waiting with great anticipation to see what they have improved on.


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## Frasier

phatic said:


> Finale Notepad is the way to go for free composing software. Sibelius has a free demo version, but this doesn't allow you to save your work, which is a major drawback.


Excuse me not going along with that. I downloaded it then set about transcribing a shortscore for string quartet - and hit two obstacles at the outset. Time sigs like 5/8 aren't allowable, nor is using a tenor clef for cello. You can't even change time sig once it's set, nor clef. As for using 2/4 and 6/8 on different staves of the same bars...no way.

Not all was lost - it does open most .MUS files so I keep it on for that. My friend uses Sibelius and it's nice for producing "publisher quality" music but too slow for drafting and not much good as a sequencer. You have to be painfully precise with notation to get durations exactly the length you want and when it comes to rubato, a sequencer wins hands down.


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## Edward Elgar

IAmKing said:


> www.putfile.com
> 
> Register for an account there... then you can upload a large range of media files.


Cheers!

Just something extra, has anyone heard of a program called reason? It's supposed to be the best music program out there!


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## MarkElRayes

*I really like FLStudio 7*

Hello, I have used FLStudio 7 since it was Fruity Loops 3. I really like it, with a combination of Edirol Orchestra, I can get some pretty realistic sounds.

I specifically like the piano roll system, it is simple and nice to use. I want to switch to Reason, which I will soon, mainly because I want to see my productions on sheet music.

But I do recommend FLStudio 7, if you have utorrent or bittorrent its a free program. Thats how the world works nowadays, free programs all around. Just stay away from the government.

If you are interested, I have posted another thread in this forum with a link to one of my shorter works.

.Mark


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## Harmonie

I don't really own any of the full versions.

In my AP Music Theory class a version Finale Workbook came with are workbooks for the class. It's pretty cool..

I also downloaded the Sibelius demo, but it hasn't done much good for me... seeing as it can't save.


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## Frasier

I know! That means you can't progressively 'find out' over a few session - no use to me as my music doesn't seem to fit these systems easily. I'm blowed if I'll shell out £400 or so when I don't know (and can't find out) if it'll do what I want. A friend uses Sibelius and tells me a few things I do can't be represented easily in it. 

I decline to become a slave to these pieces of software, changing my style to suit them!


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## mahlerfan

I use a program for the Mac called Gargeband. It's ok, though I really would like to switch to Finale sometime in the next few years. Its major setback is the fact that you cannot print out the music you write.


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## IAmKing

Yeah, Garageband is fairly crap for composing classical music in terms of writing out a score.


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## crimson

I'm a Sibelius 4 user. I do have Finale 2006, too, but I regret I ever spent my money on it. Not that it's bad, but I got so frustrated with using it. When I started playback, it didn't stop even if I told it to, just kept playing and playing, and I'm sure I used the correct commands. No patch hasn't fixed that yet. Sibelius is also smoother and cleaner to use in my opinion, and it just seems to be more intuitive. Sibelius has its usability problems too, but so far it beats Finale for me.

One thing I find annoying about both softwares is that they have you think that you can only play sounds that are midi or that come through their "extension packs/libraries", when in fact you can route them into any external sampler/sequencer and have them play the sounds through them. All you need is a virtual router, like Midi Yoke with which to route the two programs together, ie. you select Midi Yoke NT 1 as you output device in Sibelius, and then the same device as the input in the program you want to use for playback, like Kontakt 2 for example. In my opinion the software manufacturers should really put this information to their sites so everyone could access it, although it would undoubtedly ruin their extension pack sales.


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## zlya

First, I don't use any software for composing. I compose with pencil and paper at my piano (or at my flute or clarinet or whatever instrument I am composing for). Actually, I don't compose that much since I'm lousy at it, but I did have to do some composition coursework in college, and that's what I did.

For notating my music on the computer, I use Musixtex. Ever heard of it? Open Source! Free as in freedom! When I don't like the way it does something, I can CHANGE the CODE!

I know it sounds scary, and just a year ago I couldn't imagine using something without a GUI (graphical user interface) but I got so incredibly frustrated with all the things you can't do with Finale and Sibelius. With Musixtex I can notate Gregorian neumes, Schenkerian diagrams, transcriptions of Indian Classical music, and all the funky modern symbols anyone could ever want.

It took me days and days to notate anything in Finale or Sibelius, and I still couldn't get exactly what I wanted, but with Musixtex it's so easy and fast! Works on windows or linux. You can get Musixtex working on Mac, but it requires some fiddling. Ok, there's no midi. Not that I know of at least. 

For midi, I use another program: Lilypond. Also free! Also crazy flexible! Absolutely gorgeous sheet music, and it has midi. Slightly less flexible than Musixtex, which is why I don't use it all the time, but unless you're doing transcriptions and phrase reductions of African dances, you should be fine.

I know I sound like I'm selling something, but I promise you, it's absolutely free. And I guarantee that you can do absolutely anything you want with these programs. I am only so enthusiastic because it took me years and years of bashing my head into the wall with frustration to finally get away from Finale and Sibelius and start using a program where I actually have some control.


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## Eric

i think i'm gonna get Sibelius 4 soon. hopefully soon...


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## mahlerfan

Awesome!!!!!!


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## Eric

yes, it is awesome. I ordered it yesterday, so it will be here hopefully soon.


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## mahlerfan

Great, Eric!


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## Handel

I am an amateurish composer. 

I don't know all the theory, but I learn it bit by bit. My software is the old Cakewalk software. Just enough for what I need.


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## Eric

yes! sibelius 4 arrived today!

i will soon upload some of my compositions somewhere


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## Eric

ok, i have some short pieces up at myspace.com/ericingrammusic if anyone wants to take a listen


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## thicks

Sibelius. Once youve learnt some of the keyboard shortcuts it is easy, and quick. I can enter an entire piece now just using the keyuuboard


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