# Mozart's Piano Concerto 20 or 24?



## silentio

Battle of the the minor siblings!

The 24th *seems* to receive more praises from big names.

But I prefer the 20th. Mind you, Talk Classical loved the 20th too 
http://www.talkclassical.com/13220-tc-top-100-most.html

Which one do you guys like more?

P/S: Please elaborate why.


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## Pugg

No 20 without one minute hesitation.


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## pcnog11

No 20 is masterpiece, no 24 is not even close.


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## Animal the Drummer

I completely disagree with the second part of that. To me 24 is every bit as deserving of that title as its D minor companion and, while I dearly love both pieces, 24 has my vote. The OP asks that we give reasons for our preferences and that isn't easy for me, as IMHO they're both fabulous. I think I'd simply say that for me 24 has a touch of extra stature and _gravitas_ which I don't quite get from its still wonderful predecessor.


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## Art Rock

I voted for the 20th, but it's close. The later concertos (20-27) are among the best of Mozart's compositions.


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## Strange Magic

Animal the Drummer said:


> I completely disagree with the second part of that. To me 24 is every bit as deserving of that title as its D minor companion and, while I dearly love both pieces, 24 has my vote. The OP asks that we give reasons for our preferences and that isn't easy for me, as IMHO they're both fabulous. I think I'd simply say that for me 24 has a touch of extra stature and _gravitas_ which I don't quite get from its still wonderful predecessor.


I am in perfect agreement.


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## Schumanniac

Voted 20 but its no 23 for me, in truth  The adagio is probably mozart at my favourite despite that he wrote greater music.


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## silentio

pcnog11 said:


> No 20 is masterpiece, no 24 is not even close.


IMO all Mozart PCs after the 8th are masterpieces. Even the lesser-known ones like the early Vienna (11,12,13,14).


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## hpowders

Even though the 24th is held in higher regard than the 20th, I myself prefer to listen to No. 20 in D minor.

I love the operatic Mozart and for me, the 20th concerto is Mozartean operatic high drama.


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## Tchaikov6

No. 20 just leaves me more satisfied. It completely changed my view on Mozart when I first heard it- for the better. I realized Mozart was really a Romantic composer- I know literally everyone will disagree with this, but sometimes I think that Mozart is more revolutionary than Beethoven was.


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## Bulldog

I just listened to both concertos; have to go with no. 20.


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## ProudSquire

Where is the "I like them both equally option" when you really need it? But since I can't really choose one over the other, I'm gonna vote for the 24th so it doesn't fall off too far behind. :}

:cheers:


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## Bettina

ProudSquire said:


> Where is the "I like them both equally option" when you really need it? But since I can't really choose one over the other, I'm gonna vote for the 24th so it doesn't fall off too far behind. :}
> 
> :cheers:


I think "can't decide" is the option if you like them both equally. I almost chose that, because I do love them both. But at the end of the day (with apologies to hpowders who hates this phrase ), I like #20 a bit better and so I voted for that.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Strange Magic said:


> I am in perfect agreement.


..And I am in agreement with your "perfect agreement". :tiphat:


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> I think "can't decide" is the option if you like them both equally. I almost chose that, because I do love them both. But at the end of the day (with apologies to hpowders who hates this phrase ), I like #20 a bit better and so I voted for that.


I don't mind, because at the end of the day, we will all be moving forward.

I love the dramatic, operatic Mozart as in Don Giovanni and for me, No. 20 is Mozartean operatic high drama.


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## silentio

Tchaikov6 said:


> No. 20 just leaves me more satisfied. It completely changed my view on Mozart when I first heard it- for the better. I realized Mozart was really a Romantic composer- *I know literally everyone will disagree with this, but sometimes I think that Mozart is more revolutionary than Beethoven was*.


I'm in the minority who agree with you


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## silentio

hpowders said:


> I don't mind, because at the end of the day, we will all be moving forward.
> 
> I love the dramatic, operatic Mozart as in Don Giovanni and for me, No. 20 is Mozartean operatic high drama.


Yes, I really like the reference to Don Giovanni. The continuous swinging between buffa and tragedy elements in the 20th is staggering. A _dramma giocoso _ in disguise.


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## Strange Magic

I find that there is a restless, unsettled quality to the first movement of the 24th that is quite un-Mozartian. His other piano concertos (though the 20th does share with the 24th being in a minor key) are full of Mozart's sense of health, play, and well-being that the 24th's opening movement to me so clearly does not mirror. That is some of why I slightly prefer it.


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## mmsbls

I love both - they are probably my favorite 2 Mozart piano concertos. I've long viewed the 20th as my favorite piano concerto so it gets the nod.


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## poconoron

For my listening enjoyment 20 has the slightest edge over 24. The counterbalance of pathos vs. playfulness gives it the edge for me.


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## Francis Poulenc

No. 20 is obviously better. Anyone voting for 24 is really just a contrarian.


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## DavidA

Francis Poulenc said:


> *No. 20 is obviously better*. Anyone voting for 24 is really just a contrarian.


Why? Reasons?................


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## Francis Poulenc

DavidA said:


> Why? Reasons?................


Because it is. Why is Bach's Mass in B minor better than Earl Sweatshirt's classic single: "Dat delicious booty".


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Francis Poulenc said:


> *Because it is*. Why is Bach's Mass in B minor better than Earl Sweatshirt's classic single: "Dat delicious booty".


You got me convinced with your well-reasoned argument.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I can't decide. Maybe 20 by a hair. These are my two favorite Mozart concertos; they stand out from the rest.


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## Francis Poulenc

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> You got me convinced with your well-reasoned argument.


In art, there is no reasoning. A work is great when it can produce positive emotions in the listener, and the degree of greatness is measured by the intensity of that emotion in the largest amount of people possible. Objectively, the Mass in B Minor is better than most works because the consensus says that it is. My argument was enclosed in the rhetorical question, it's a pity I have to spell this out as if to a child.


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## isorhythm

The 24th, though it was a close call and I might have said the 20th on a different day.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Francis Poulenc said:


> In art, there is no reasoning. *A work is great when it can produce positive emotions in the listener, and the degree of greatness is measured by the intensity of that emotion in the largest amount of people possible*. Objectively, the Mass in B Minor is better than most works because the consensus says that it is. My argument was enclosed in the rhetorical question, *it's a pity I have to spell this out as if to a child.*


Are you sure? Ask yourself this question: if what you say is true, which is greater, the B Minor mass or Justin Bieber's Baby?

Also, it's a pity you have to post as if a child.


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## Bill H.

No. 24 for me. I prefer the richer orchestration (including some great clarinet writing), and the Variations form used for the finale, which is more unique than a rondo. 

Finally, there's Beethoven, who commented on this Concerto, and in many ways modeled his Third P.C. after it (think of the re-entrance of the piano after the cadenza in the 1st movement, and continuing on to its end.)


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## EdwardBast

I like both equally, and find their finales equally anticlimactic. Those who have noted the Romantic qualities of these works can add the Romantic "finale problem" to the list.


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## DavidA

EdwardBast said:


> I like both equally, and *find their finales equally anticlimactic.* Those who have noted the Romantic qualities of these works can add the Romantic "finale problem" to the list.


Intersting Beethoven didn't


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## DavidA

In March 1795 Mozart's widow organised a benefit concert which included a performance of K466. As the soloist was one L van Beethoven I wouldn't have minded a ticket.


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## KenOC

I bought a ticket on the Internet, but when I called about it they said the concert had been canceled because they found out Beethoven was dead. No refunds.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

KenOC said:


> I bought a ticket on the Internet, but when I called about it they said the concert had been canceled because they found out Beethoven was dead. No refunds.


You might still get tickets to one Kanye West. I understand you can't tell him and Beethoven apart.


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## EdwardBast

DavidA said:


> Intersting Beethoven didn't


Beethoven didn't know about the Romantic finale problem.


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## lluissineu

# 20 Is The Mozart piano concerto I prefer. Couldn't say why, maybe It's because it is Mozartean High drama as Hpowders says.


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## Phil loves classical

No. 24 for me. I like the first movement in 20 better, but the other two more in 24, especially the last movement.


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## Phil loves classical

Tchaikov6 said:


> ... but sometimes I think that Mozart is more revolutionary than Beethoven was.


This was always what I thought.


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## Pugg

No 20 still leading comfortably.


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## tdc

Phil loves classical said:


> No. 24 for me. I like the first movement in 20 better, but the other two more in 24, especially the last movement.


+1

This is how I feel about the works as well and why I voted for No. 24.


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## Judith

Love the 20th! Beautiful!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

After having listened to both several times after this poll, I am sticking to my original answer of "can't decide". The first movement of the 20th is perhaps one of my all time favorites but I like 24 overall about the same as 20.


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## Olias

Both are marvelous but I'm more attracted to the 24th for two reasons:

1) The inclusion of clarinets in the scoring which gives the wind section a larger palate of timbres with which to work

2) The use of a minor key Theme and Variations final movement gives a macabre, almost totentanz feel which is eerily beautiful


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## Haydn man

I am afraid I can't separate these 2 enough to give one my vote


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## AfterHours

20th is somewhat better overall, but they're neck and neck by the time their 1st movements end. They're both exceptional all the way through.

Though a lot of people think his 20th (or 24th) is his finest concerto, I actually think his 21st tops them both and is his crowning achievement in the genre.


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## Janspe

Can't decide. K.466 is darker and the more immediately intense of the two, but K.491 feels more sophisticated and brilliantly written, at least for me. It's more subtle in a way, whereas the D minor just throws everything at the listener. I love both works immensely and count them as some of my favourite concertos.


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## PlaySalieri

I think the outer movts of the c minor are virtually unmatchable and i only chose no 20 because the three movements are quite evenly matched. The 2nd mvt of the c minor lets down the concerto a little.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

Note: I can only comment about 1st movements with anything Mozart because my usual tendency is to fall asleep during the second movement and miss the rest.

Anyway, I guess because I have listened to 20 so much more than 24, I find 24 to be more stimulating.....it has a better relative major theme/ section, and a more interesting development.....

but I think 20 still takes it because the theme that occurs at the end of the orchestral introduction (which is repeated at the end of the relative major section and at the very end of the movement) is so sensuous and passionate, it makes me wonder how a mortal being conceived of such a thing.






I like how she uses it in her cadenza, at the beginning, which I prefer to Beethoven's cadenza which doesn't use it.


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