# suggestions for Bruckner Complete Symphony set?



## chalkpie

OK, I am ready to dive in. I am a huge Mahler fanatic, for what that is worth.

I am looking for a set that is =/contains:

1) great/stellar sound (I have been pointed in the direction of Barenboim/Berliner/Teldec) for a set with great sound. I have heard the Von Karajan Berliner set is great, but the sonics are so-so.....not sure if that is gonna work for me.

2) Not too expensive (like $30 or so from Amazon vendors)

3) Consistent. I own enough box sets to realize that box sets to realize that not one of them nails all symphonies perfect, but a solid consistent and convincing realization should be present.

4) I don't need a "classic" performance from 1943 if the sound is mediocre.....like I said, I prefer audiophile level sonics with a convincing reading.

What say you? THANKS!


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## powerbooks

Jochum / EMI or Jochum / Brilliant classics nowadays......

You can find it cheaper somewhere else than Amazon.


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## powerbooks

Oh, if you really like better sound, then try Wand.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=565590


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## Sonata

I have the Gunter Wand set that powerbooks mentions above. (Like yourself, I am a Mahler fanatic, by the way)
This set in particular, and Bruckner in general, was recommended to me by Jared, another member of this board. It can be had from some amazon dealers for as low as 22 dollars new. The sound is very good, and it is a highly regarded cycle. I enjoyed the fourth symphony very much, but I've only listened to that one and the first so far, as it's a pretty recent purchase. Another option is the Karajan cycle, Jared said that one was quite good as well. That can be had for about 30 dollars through Amazon, though I cannot comment on sound quality, nor do I have any experience with those performances.


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## pollux

Celibidache is an absolute must, although his cycles (DG, EMI) are not complete. Be warned, though, that it's probable that after listening to his Bruckner, you won't find any other's satisfying any more.


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## bigshot

Karajan's Bruckner sounds very good to me. It's my favorite among Wand, Jochum and Bohm.


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## Manxfeeder

pollux said:


> Celibidache is an absolute must, although his cycles (DG, EMI) are not complete. Be warned, though, that it's probable that after listening to his Bruckner, you won't find any other's satisfying any more.


Do you have a preference for either EMI or DG?


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## pollux

I only have the EMI set. But, as far as I know, the DG is very similar in quality. You can also get the DVDs with his recordings of, I guess, symphonies 6-8. Some say these are his very best performances.


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## Manxfeeder

pollux said:


> I only have the EMI set.


Thanks. I've been thinking about getting the EMI set.


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## StlukesguildOhio

For me the quality of the performance is far, far more important than audiophile sound quality. The best three recordings of the entire symphonies IMO are Karajan, Wand, and Jochum. All three are more than adequate in terms of sound quality. Karajan's efforts were recorded between 1971 and 1981. Jochum's EMI set were recorded between 1975 and 1981 while his DG recordings date mostly from the 1960s. I personally love the DG recordings, but most reviews suggest there isn't much difference between the two. Wand made several recordings of Bruckner's symphonies and while several of these later recordings with the Berlin Philharmonic are quite good I feel the set with the Cologne Radio Symphony Orchestra recorded between 1974 and 1981 is the better choice.




























There may be more recent audiophile quality recordings of Bruckner... but I cannot imagine wanting to spend money on an audiophile quality recording of a less than stellar performance of anything.


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## bigshot

I think recordings from the 60s usually sound better than modern audiophile ones. They generally have a better orchestral balance, more comfortable dynamics and a more natural hall acoustic.


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## quack

I'd second Celibidache on EMI, he makes it one of my favourite of any symphony cycles even if it isn't quite complete, it just sounds amazingly meditative. Speaking of modern audiophile recordings i'd like to hear Simone Young's recordings, they seem well regarded.


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## Vaneyes

ACO/Haitink, fine performances with terrific-sounding analogue (rec. 1965 - 1973). Keeping in mind *consistent*, this is it.

View attachment 8447


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## Wandering

Vaneyes said:


> ACO/Haitink, fine performances with terrific-sounding analogue (rec. 1960 - 1972). Keeping in mind *consistent*, this is it.
> 
> View attachment 8447


I really love this set too. I think he is a touch too slow with the scherzo of the 9th, I like it quick personally. I wish the cycle had better bass also; I need my bass.

I like the Barenboim/Teldec/Warner set personally.

There is a dirt cheap set on the Membran label (a budget label reissuing older recordings in bulk sets for cheap). Unusual for Membran though, this Bruckner cycle is a recent digital set with an almost completely unknown conductor; it is very very good though. The cycle includes the no. 0 and 'Te Deum' also, what's not to like?


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## bigshot

Haitink is what Ormandy is accused of being... Bland.


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## Vaneyes

Clovis said:


> I really love this set too. I think he is a touch too slow with the scherzo of the 9th, I like it quick personally. I wish the cycle had better bass also; I need my bass.
> 
> I like the Barenboim/Teldec/Warner set personally.
> 
> There is a dirt cheap set on the Membran label (a budget label reissuing older recordings in bulk sets for cheap). Unusual for Membran though, this Bruckner cycle is a recent digital set with an almost completely unknown conductor; it is very very good though. The cycle includes the no. 0 and 'Te Deum' also, what's not to like?


The Haitink 9 Scherzo's only 29 seconds longer than the Barenboim Teldec, and a little over a minute longer than my favorite 9 Scherzo. Not a deal-breaker, certainly.

And I'm surprised you had trouble finding a bass line. One thing (among others) Philips is known for is warmth. I can't imagine 5's opening with bass being caught any better.

Barenboim's Teldec Bruckner is a good set...an improvement over his earlier DG set. I think 3, 6, 9 stand out. Sound quality is variable amongst these live recordings.

Paternostro's Bruckner, I don't find competitive at any price. If one's going to listen to six hours of something....


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## bigshot

The thing about Bruckner (and Mahler and Wagner) is that when it's bad, there's no hope in sight. If minutes sound like hours, imagine what hours sound like!


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## Xaltotun

I love my Barenboim/Teldec cycle, but don't have much experience on other cycles yet.


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## realdealblues

For complete cycles I have currently own:

Barenboim/Teldec Cycle
Chailly/Decca Cycle
Haitink/Philips Cycle
Jochum/EMI Cycle
Jochum/DG Cycle
Karajan/DG Cycle
Solti/London Cycle
Wand/RCA Cycle
As well as a Naxos White Box Set and a Centurian Classics release of the complete Symphonies.

Now, I am not a Bruckner aficionado. I do not know how he is "supposed" to sound because honestly, I don't understand him as well as I do Mahler (whom I have over 100 different recordings).

I can tell you of all the recordings I own, trying various view points, tempos, etc. from all these different conductors and orchestras, that I most frequently re-listen to Karajan, with both Jochum sets close behind. Probably next are the Wand & Haitink sets at an even tie for me. Now, like I said I don't "get" Bruckner at this point in my life, but I find the Karajan & Jochum recordings the most enjoyable.


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## joen_cph

The *Paternostro *set contains a lot of really bad, massively fawlty playing, to a degree I have never heard in any other commercial issue, and it is a times just embarrassing. The sound of the recordings is often impressive though, and the 5th Symphony is ok, sometimes very good; the 3rd, 4th and 8th contains some interesting phrasings as well as well as some poor ones. But overall the set is a curiosity & one should never rely on it as the only set to have.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Let me put in a word for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Bruckner set.

Read here for the explanation why.


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## moody

bigshot said:


> Haitink is what Ormandy is accused of being... Bland.


You're right--I got stuck in a lift (elevator) with him once and he's a very nice guy.


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## moody

bigshot said:


> The thing about Bruckner (and Mahler and Wagner) is that when it's bad, there's no hope in sight. If minutes sound like hours, imagine what hours sound like!


With Bruckner it is best to choose the set that gets through the whole thing the quickest.


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## Wandering

Vaneyes said:


> The Haitink 9 Scherzo's only 29 seconds longer than the Barenboim Teldec, and a little over a minute longer than my favorite 9 Scherzo. Not a deal-breaker, certainly.
> 
> And I'm surprised you had trouble finding a bass line. One thing (among others) Philips is known for is warmth. I can't imagine 5's opening with bass being caught any better.
> 
> Barenboim's Teldec Bruckner is a good set...an improvement over his earlier DG set. I think 3, 6, 9 stand out. Sound quality is variable amongst these live recordings.
> 
> Paternostro's Bruckner, I don't find competitive at any price. If one's going to listen to six hours of something....


But you should notice a very different tempi atleast in the very rythmic openings of the two differing scherzo, I sure as heck do; It isn't unusual to drag it a bit, but I prefer brisk.

I've never heard the opening to B3 so mysterious and full as in the Haitink cycle, his B3 is still the best I know of.

I haven't found anything at all grosteque in the Paternostro cycle? It seems fine to me, what is it you dislike so much? True that it is'nt the greatest orchestra and that you'd think the effect not so linear given a.-that it is Bruckner and b.-it was recording in a huge dome. I still can't find any mistakes or oddities with any of the recordings. I especially like the fact that there not any real psuedo-interpretative none-sense to be found in any of them, this makes the set a safe bet. You are quite right in the sense that there are a huge variety of top cycles for near the same price, though lacking the no.0 and 'Te Deum'.

I can definitely express a type of general love for many recordings, many many recordings! When I don't like something, it is either because the album should never have been released for being so absolutely horrible, or the conductor is trying to pull some out right oddity in the recordings that doesn't fly with me, sometimes it does, but most often I get mad as hell, I supposed I'd laugh if I hadn't paid cash money for it!


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## Manxfeeder

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Let me put in a word for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Bruckner set.
> 
> Read here for the explanation why.


Thanks for the explanation. My first introduction to Bruckner was Solti's recording of the 5th, and I thought Bruckner was awful. I've been chary of his Bruckner ever since. Fortunately, I found Tintner's set, and Bruckner became one of my favorite composers.

I'm going to have to listen to Solti's 5th again to see of my outlook changes. But I did notice you advocated Sinopoli's recording of the 5th, which I really like.


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## Wandering

joen_cph said:


> The *Paternostro *set contains a lot of really bad, massively fawlty playing, to a degree I have never heard in any other commercial issue, and it is a times just embarrassing. The sound of the recordings is often impressive though, and the 5th Symphony is ok, sometimes very good; the 3rd, 4th and 8th contains some interesting phrasings as well as well as some poor ones. But overall the set is a curiosity & one should never rely on it as the only set to have.


I haven't as of yet found any egregious mistakes in these recordings? And I've heard some real monstrosities, such as a collection of Sibelius symphonies for cheap on Amazon mp3, I doubt they're even still selling it, they shouldn't be!


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## joen_cph

I am a bit sorry about my overtly critical post, but really, there are many such faults. I own the set & listened to a lot of its content, since I am a Bruckner enthusiast, but I don´t want to go through it again. There are lots of examples of inaccurate orchestral playing - the 2nd Symphony for instance, in the finale, where Paternostro slows down so that it becomes a caricature, combined with very poor ensemble work and instrumental solos.

I liked the 5th when I heard it and was pleasantly surprised, but on the other hand the work doesn´t get really of the ground in that recording either. Pedestrianism is also present in the Te Deum for instance. As said the 4th and the 8th has some good moments, there are fewer of them in the 3rd. He is sometimes able to make the strings sing, and the sound is often great, like in the 5th.


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## Wandering

I should relisten to the 5th.

What did you think of the Thielemann/Munich recording of the 5th? Have ya heard it? I owned it a good while back. It was actually my intro to Bruckner, a late intro unfortunately.


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## joen_cph

I tend to avoid Thielemann, what I heard didn´t impress, but it doesn´t comprise Bruckner. I guess he is one of the fellows where you either like him or not, there´s not much in between.

As regards the 5th, I own Barenboim/teldec (like it a lot), Abendroth, Welser-Möst, Knappertsbusch, Konwitschny (maybe sold now), Karajan, Inbal, Suitner, Jochum/DG, Paternostro. In this case I was not so keen on Celibidache/DG and Wand, but those impressions might be different now.


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## chalkpie

Question:

Does anybody know why Boulez only recorded B8, and not the rest of the cycle?


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## Andreas

chalkpie said:


> Question:
> 
> Does anybody know why Boulez only recorded B8, and not the rest of the cycle?


No idea. He has conducted Bruckner's Fifth, Seventh and Ninth in concert, so they're in his repertoire. I'd love to hear them. Perhaps they'll surface some day. Earlier this year, DG relased a record of Boulez conducting Wagner and Schoenberg, but that was actually a live performance from 2003. So maybe they've got some older material still waiting to be released at the right moment.


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## GraemeG

I've not heard Celi on DG, but the EMI recordings are in another world. They are recorded much later in life, and I'd expect them to have greater insights. They're live, too, and very special indeed.
GG


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## david.allsopp

*Excellent Bruckner Cycle*



chalkpie said:


> OK, I am ready to dive in. I am a huge Mahler fanatic, for what that is worth.
> 
> I am looking for a set that is =/contains:
> 
> 1) great/stellar sound (I have been pointed in the direction of Barenboim/Berliner/Teldec) for a set with great sound. I have heard the Von Karajan Berliner set is great, but the sonics are so-so.....not sure if that is gonna work for me.
> 
> 2) Not too expensive (like $30 or so from Amazon vendors)
> 
> 3) Consistent. I own enough box sets to realize that box sets to realize that not one of them nails all symphonies perfect, but a solid consistent and convincing realization should be present.
> 
> 4) I don't need a "classic" performance from 1943 if the sound is mediocre.....like I said, I prefer audiophile level sonics with a convincing reading.
> 
> What say you? THANKS!


Hi chalkpie, I propose for you the cycle by Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Saarbruecken conducted by Stanislaw Skrowaczewski. Crisp and powerful. Great sound. Each one distinctively good.

http://amzn.com/B00SNZX3JE


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## Clemens

Listening at this moment: this (Stanislaw) indeed turns out to be an excellent box-set: interpretation-wise, play-wise ánd in respect to the sound! Celibidache too by the way.


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## DavidA

Two very different Bruckner sets on my shelves:

Jochum / Dresden

Karajan / BPO

Either is good but you must also hear Karajan's late VPO 7th and 8th and also his 4th and 7th on EMI


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## Merl

After listening to Janowski's Pentatone set I can't fully recommend it, unfortunately. The last 2 symphonies are very good but what comes before (apart from decent accounts of 1&2) is not very impressive, especially a very odd and boring 7th and a colourless 4th. Shame cos I like Janowski.


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## Heck148

Two superb sets, both from Chicago-

Barenboim/CSO - DG - reissued in stunning sound...some incredible performances here, recorded splendidly...

#s 3,4,6,8 are esp fine...

Solti/CSO - Decca - great set, superbly recorded, this is real big sound Bruckner [so is Barenboim/CSO]...all excellent with some real standouts:
#3, 6,7, 8, 9 - top of the heap.....


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## Konsgaard

If you want a cheap set in great sound then definitely Barenboim/BPO or Skrowaczewski. Haitink's set will be released next month in remastered sound (and also on Blu-ray) if you can wait.


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## starthrower

Konsgaard said:


> If you want a cheap set in great sound then definitely Barenboim/BPO or Skrowaczewski.


I have the Skrow. Excellent set for around 25-30 dollars.


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