# THC and Classical Music (telling the truth)



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

We are going to hash this out if the moderators permit it. I have listened to classical music my whole life, but when I listened to it on THC it was GREATLY enhanced! One can understand the music so much more powerfully and clearly. (at least I should say, this is undeniably true in my case). Even more, the pleasure of listening takes on a whole new force.

The DEA has ONLY done negative tests on THC, and as such, they do not understand the positive benefits (which are now coming to light). This should come as no surprise to critical thinkers.

However, there are other things that can hinder the benefit of THC. If one takes too much, if one has a bad experience; if one is not in a comfortable setting; if one takes it too much; if one is too young...

The point of all this is to point out that THC _does have_ powerful and positive effects. It does not simply make a person stupid. If you take THC and listen to a piece of music, which has largely perplexed you, you may be surprised to realize that you finally understand it (and more importantly) this understanding will not simply go away once the high fades.

It is hard to speak about this because there is still much negative taboo attached to THC. It should not be this way! We are all living life my friends, and the point of living is to live as fully as we possibly can. For me THC has enhanced my life experience. If I said anything else it would be a lie.

Any by the way, one of my favorite pieces to listen to on THC is Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor (BWV 582) transcribed for orchestra by Stokowski.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Klassic said:


> We are going to hash this out if the moderators permit it. I have listened to classical music my whole life, but when I listened to it on THC it was GREATLY enhanced! One can understand the music so much more powerfully and clearly. (at least I should say, this is undeniably true in my case). Even more, the pleasure of listening takes on a whole new force.
> 
> The DEA has ONLY done negative tests on THC, and as such, they do not understand the positive benefits (which are now coming to light). This should come as no surprise to critical thinkers.
> 
> ...


I agree, although due to societal pressures, I have decided to forego the use of all mind-altering substances, THC included. The last experience I had was in Dallas with marijuana brownies; they were delicious, and about an hour later, I was high as a kite, with no smell to detect, and without smoking. My eyes did get very red, though, which seems to be a symptom unto itself, unrelated to smoke.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> I agree, although due to societal pressures, I have decided to forego the use of all mind-altering substances, THC included. The last experience I had was in Dallas with marijuana brownies; they were delicious, and about an hour later, I was high as a kite, with no smell to detect, and without smoking. My eyes did get very red, though, which seems to be a symptom unto itself, unrelated to smoke.


Yes, if one is going to use it one should do so responsibly. For me this means only from time to time as a kind of special-occasion-treat for myself. It also means not putting myself in awkward social situations. Just stay home and listen to music, eat good food, this is pleasure enough.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

But have you listened to Wagner... on WEEED?


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

jailhouse said:


> But have you listened to Wagner... on WEEED?
> View attachment 88779


Yes, I love Parsifal.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

oh THC, I just use Erinmore Flake much legal I think!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Klassic said:


> If you take THC and listen to a piece of music, which has largely perplexed you, you may be surprised to realize that you finally understand it (and more importantly) this understanding will not simply go away once the high fades.


Of course, the same thing has happened to me when I've been just about to fall asleep -- and I haven't needed to be high to experience the revelation.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

MarkW said:


> Of course, the same thing has happened to me when I've been just about to fall asleep -- and I haven't needed to be high to experience the revelation.


I certainly don't deny this can happen, but being under the influence of THC is not the same as falling asleep.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

I value my brain and internal organs too much. No thank you.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Kontrapunctus said:


> I value my brain and internal organs too much. No thank you.


There are many things that diminish the brain as well as internal organs. The assumption here is too broad and too general. Studies have proven that THC increases articulation, as well as other positive attributes. If you don't go beyond the DEA's loaded research you will not have a scientific understanding. More studies are being done all the time. There have also been studies done on psilocybin. I wonder how you think it will damage your brain?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

does Opera damage the Brain, I mean all those high and low frequency vibrations going through the performers head can't be good!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> does Opera damage the Brain, I mean all those high and low frequency vibrations going through the performers head can't be good!


Also, what if the idea of normality is itself abnormal and destructive, such as Nazi Germany and their views of degenerate art? At times it is good to be damaged (because damage does not always mean damage). I believe THC is like this. It is good to transcend our suffocating paradigms. But the point is, THC does have real significance toward the listening of classical music. It does increase the power and intensity of the music.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

When one says "I value my brain too much," one assumes things that are not true. I have NOT been diminished by the use of THC, but it has undoubtedly turned me into a deeper and more compassionate, aware human being.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Kontrapunctus said:


> I value my brain and internal organs too much. No thank you.


Very sensible and valued answer.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Very sensible and valued answer.


Is this really sensible, or is it ignorant? What research is it based on (apart from years of loaded research)? Did you not hear Nixon declare, behind closed doors, that he wanted to launch a propaganda war against marijuana? I can accept the fact that certain people do not like it, but to claim that it does damage... to claim that one is superior to those who use THC is both ignorant and arrogant.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Klassic said:


> I have listened to classical music my whole life, but when I listened to it on THC it was GREATLY enhanced!


Well. Anything and everything is enhanced on THC. It's, like, wow man.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Klassic said:


> When one says "I value my brain too much," one assumes things that are not true. I have NOT been diminished by the use of THC, but it has undoubtedly turned me into a deeper and more compassionate, aware human being.


So the message appears to be don't believe the scientific research that has been done because it is all biased or propaganda. However your own personal observations on this are true and accurate and can be applied to us all
You will have to excuse me if I choose not to follow you


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

I'm on THC right now and let me tell you, I'm pretty impaired.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I think there are times when the overall shape and thrust of a work can be muddied for you under THC but the detail is greatly enhanced. I have found that THC is excellent in opening up the work of composers using a language that is new to me - usually because it it quite contemporary and "difficult". But, on the other hand, with lots of music I know and love I find myself "transported" - and my mind altered - without the use of added chemicals.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Though I don´t believe in the suggested strategy, thanks anyway for supplementing my English/American vocabulary with two new concepts. 

But for studying less convenient health effects, I can always go on a tour to our local Christiania Freetown, however, and see some of the possible results.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Haydn man said:


> So the message appears to be don't believe the scientific research that has been done because it is all biased or propaganda. However your own personal observations on this are true and accurate and can be applied to us all
> You will have to excuse me if I choose not to follow you


What I am really suggesting is that the research of the past was in fact biased and negative. But more importantly, I am giving testimony (with many others) that there is more to THC than this. We are just now starting to understand the positive properties of this substance. What's really disturbing is that we have an industry of truly destructive and addictive drugs which are controlled and distributed by large corporations. This is both a form of control, as well as tyranny. Low and behold, we come across a useful plant in the forest, and these companies launch a propaganda war against it. Have you ever read the warning label that comes with most medications?

THC does not deserve to be treated as a moral defect. With all due respect Mr. Haydn man, I affirm your right to abstain, but your reply is full of unjustified moral assumptions. I encourage you to do the research. We are no longer living in the 60's or 70's, the administration cannot so easily censor information thanks to the internet. There is lots of new scientific research which *proves* the positive effects of THC.

When it comes to classical music THC, does in fact, produce something quite profound. It is not inconceivable that THC will even lead to a revival in classical music. THC IS NOT A BAD THING IF IT IS USED RESPONSIBLY.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Klassic said:


> What I am really suggesting is that the research of the past was in fact biased and negative. But more importantly, I am giving testimony (with many others) that there is more to THC than this. We are just now starting to understand the positive properties of this substance. What's really disturbing is that we have an industry of truly destructive and addictive drugs which are controlled and distributed by large corporations. This is both a form of control, as well as tyranny. Low and behold, we come across a useful plant in the forest, and these companies launch a propaganda war against it. Have you ever read the warning label that comes with most medications?
> 
> THC does not deserve to be treated as a moral defect. With all due respect Mr. Haydn man, I affirm your right to abstain, but your reply is full of unjustified moral assumptions. I encourage you to do the research. We are no longer living in the 60's or 70's, the administration cannot so easily censor information thanks to the internet. There is lots of new scientific research which *proves* the positive effects of THC.
> 
> When it comes to classical music THC, does in fact, produce something quite profound. It is not inconceivable that THC will even lead to a revival in classical music. THC IS NOT A BAD THING IF IT IS USED RESPONSIBLY.


If you don't mind answering, may I ask how old you are out of purest curiosity?


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

nathanb said:


> If you don't mind answering, may I ask how old you are out of purest curiosity?


Old enough to take THC responsibly.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Klassic said:


> Old enough to take THC responsibly.


And, in the form of a number, this means, to you...?


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

nathanb said:


> And, in the form of a number, this means, to you...?


My dear sir, my age is insignificant. I am not a child. Your approach seems to be the preface to an ad hominem. I find it exceedingly sad, and super scary, that people simply do what their told and believe what they are conditioned to believe without question. This happened in Germany once upon a time. People who use THC are not "degenerate" and neither are we stupid. I encourage you to challenge your assumptions regarding this substance. Do some research.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Klassic said:


> My dear sir, my age is insignificant. I am not a child. Your approach seems to be the preface to an ad hominem. I find it exceedingly sad, and super scary, that people simply do what their told and believe what they are conditioned to believe without question. This happened in Germany once upon a time. People who use THC are not "degenerate" and neither are we stupid. I encourage you to challenge your assumptions regarding this substance. Do some research.


I already mentioned above that I was under the effects of an ample amount of THC only last night. You have given me a ballpark figure for your age simply by being uncomfortable giving it though, so thanks, you've answered my questions I guess.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> There are many things that diminish the brain as well as internal organs. The assumption here is too broad and too general. Studies have proven that THC increases articulation, as well as other positive attributes. If you don't go beyond the DEA's loaded research you will not have a scientific understanding. More studies are being done all the time. There have also been studies done on psilocybin. I wonder how you think it will damage your brain?


I'd be interested in reading the studies if you have references available


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Well. Anything and everything is enhanced on THC. It's, like, wow man.


Yep. Even sex is better on THC. Now if you combine sex, THC and Beethoven's 9th, you're in heaven (the Earthly one) 

I haven't taken THC in years but I do agree with Klassic. I remember listening to Beethoven's 7th while under the influence and to this day I remember the heightened sensual experience. It's quite something.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

nathanb said:


> I already mentioned above that I was under the effects of an ample amount of THC only last night. You have given me a ballpark figure for your age simply by being uncomfortable giving it though, so thanks, you've answered my questions I guess.


The last person who asked me for my age was *Woodduck*, and he did it precisely because he thought it would undermine my position, it was an ad hominem attempt. So I guess I am sensitive to this question, also, I really don't understand the questions relevance?


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I think there are ways of using THC responsibly. I've never used it personally, but know it can be used in a generally safe way. That said unfortunately, I've grown jaded by the town in which I practice medicine. I've seen a LOT of people fritter away their lives away with THC. These people are not using responsibly, in fact most of my patients who use it seem to be daily or near daily use and most of them have lost the drive to really care for their families, their health, and indeed their drive to create. Perhaps they can appreciate Mahler in greater detail than I ever could, yet don't seem to do much else. It's worse ironically now that medical use is legalized. I see certainly a few people helped with legitimate conditions: multiple sclerosis, chronic nerve pain to name two. But more have picked up their "card" for nothing more than a sprained knee and use it as justification to shut down any legitimate medical concerns I may regarding any adverse effects it may play on their overall health.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> I'd be interested in reading the studies if you have references available


Just google "medical marijuana scientific studies." This plant is not the demon it has been portrayed to be.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Klassic said:


> The last person who asked me for my age was *Woodduck*, and he did it precisely because he thought it would undermine my position, it was an ad hominem attempt. So I guess I am sensitive to this question, also, I really don't understand the questions relevance?


I don't have any desire to undermine you. Context is _always_ relevant to communication. I have my context, and now I'm going to carry on with my day. As you were.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> The last person who asked me for my age was *Woodduck*, and he did it precisely because he thought it would undermine my position, it was an ad hominem attempt. So I guess I am sensitive to this question, also, I really don't understand the questions relevance?


Perhaps because as you yourself insinuated, using THC at too young an age can be detrimental to the developing brain. I don't think it's a shocking question.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> Just google "medical marijuana scientific studies." This plant is not the demon it has been portrayed to be.


But you mention SPECIFICALLY THC. Most of the medical benefits from studies I've read are related to the cannabinoids, and I feel there is definite valid science there. I am asking since you specifically are talking about the THC. And I never implied the plant is a demon.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I've been using THC for decades, and it has definitely enhanced my musical experiences. Some other folks I know have not had any favorable experiences; they get nervous and paranoid. It's an individual thing - tread carefully.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Klassic said:


> When it comes to classical music THC, does in fact, produce something quite profound. It is not inconceivable that THC will even lead to a revival in classical music. THC IS NOT A BAD THING IF IT IS USED RESPONSIBLY.


Why just classical music? Maybe if we all got high, _all_ music would be quite profound. Maybe _everything_ would be quite profound. Maybe if we were all high, life itself would be quite profound. But then classical music would occupy the same position it does now relative to everything else, so there would probably be no revival of classical music.

When did classical music die, by the way? I'm listening to some right now. I'm finding it sufficiently profound. But maybe what you mean by profound isn't what I mean when I use the word.

(EDIT: I see that while I've been composing this my name has come up. Your need to mention it does kinda make me wonder how old you are. )


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> I think there are ways of using THC responsibly. I've never used it personally, but know it can be used in a generally safe way. That said unfortunately, I've grown jaded by the town in which I practice medicine. I've seen a LOT of people fritter away their lives away with THC. These people are not using responsibly, in fact most of my patients who use it seem to be daily or near daily use and most of them have lost the drive to really care for their families, their health, and indeed their drive to create. Perhaps they can appreciate Mahler in greater detail than I ever could, yet don't seem to do much else. It's worse ironically now that medical use is legalized. I see certainly a few people helped with legitimate conditions: multiple sclerosis, chronic nerve pain to name two. But more have picked up their "card" for nothing more than a sprained knee and use it as justification to shut down any legitimate medical concerns I may regarding any adverse effects it may play on their overall health.


I totally admit this can happen, but there is another side to this. Who are we to say they need to be doing more? Some people's lives are FULL of suffering, if THC gives them relief, then we should be happy for them (most especially if you are a doctor). It is your last sentence that I have a problem with. Should one only eat food for health, is there not such a thing as eating for pleasure? What is wrong with enjoying yourself on alcohol or marijuana? It is precisely your moral line of reasoning here that creates SO MANY problems in the world. We are not here to torture ourselves, the whole point of living is to enjoy it, and the world sucks, it is intelligence for us if we can find some relief! Is this not the very nature of classical music? Do we listen for pleasure or education?


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

I'll stick to alcohol and caffeine thanks, for the extent of my drug-altered states.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Why just classical music? Maybe if we all got high, _all_ music would be quite profound. Maybe _everything_ would be quite profound. Maybe if we were all high, life itself would be quite profound. But then classical music would occupy the same position it does now relative to everything else, so there would probably be no revival of classical music.
> 
> When did classical music die, by the way? I'm listening to some right now. I'm finding it sufficiently profound. But maybe what you mean by profound isn't what I mean when I use the word.


Woodduck my friend, it does not only need to be classical music. Basically THC equals the increase of ALL aesthetics experiences (and is this not what we are trying to achieve by listening to classical music in the first place)? Are we not trying to have the best aesthetic experience we can? This is really what life is all about! Think about it my friends... think about it!!!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> I've been using THC for decades, and it has definitely enhanced my musical experiences. Some other folks I know have not had any favorable experiences; they get nervous and paranoid. It's an individual thing - tread carefully.


THC is not for everyone, but some of this paranoia comes from a misunderstanding, it comes from an underlying affirmation of the cultural taboo. The user somehow thinks he has done something terrible. Also, if one takes too much this can happen. It is like anything intense, it takes time to acclimate. Climbing mountains can induce fear.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Klassic said:


> Climbing mountains can induce fear.


Do you climb mountains while high too?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> I'll stick to alcohol and caffeine thanks, for the extent of my drug-altered states.


I stay away from alcohol, a toxic product for sure.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Kivimees said:


> Do you climb mountains while high too?


I do not take THC very often. I have never climbed a mountain on THC, though I have climbed many mountains.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

I wonder if those people who think so negatively against THC support the legalization and recreational use of alcohol? Because if they do, there is no contest, alcohol is proven to be deadly. This proves that such people are not thinking critically or fairly.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Klassic said:


> I wonder if those people who think so negatively against THC support the legalization and recreational use of alcohol? Because if they do, there is no contest, alcohol is proven to be deadly. This proves that such people are not thinking critically or fairly.


Which people ?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I once listened to Kegel's Beethoven cycle whilst smoking banana skins. It was still *****.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

................................ deleted.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

One of my friends is a brilliant doctor (he even gave a Tedtalk) and he smokes marijuana nearly every day. The point is, there are many sane, competent, intelligent people using this substance and they are not being diminished by it. 

Do you know where the anti-war movement originated in America? With the hippies. Do you know why? Because through the expansion of their consciousness they could see how foolish and vicious it was. The truth is we are all in the same boat. We are stuck on this planet, and the best way for us to get along is to help each other. THC has many positive benefits, and not all of these are physical, I would argue that the most important and powerful ones, the longest lasting effects, are how it shapes our perspective of ourselves and the world. One day we will all die, we only have one chance to comprehend things and treat people well. THC has helped many people to obtain a broader comprehension of existence, and from this it has made them better human beings. We need more compassion in the world, we need more kindness, if THC can help with this then it has my vote. I don't want to live in a violent world. Children suffer when this happens. What does it mean to be healthy? I say it means we understand our material context, I say it means we understand our limitations and great need for each other. I say it means we treat each other, not with violence or moral contempt, but with kindness and enlightened understanding.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> I totally admit this can happen, but there is another side to this. Who are we to say they need to be doing more? Some people's lives are FULL of suffering, if THC gives them relief, then we should be happy for them (most especially if you are a doctor). It is your last sentence that I have a problem with. Should one only eat food for health, is there not such a thing as eating for pleasure? What is wrong with enjoying yourself on alcohol or marijuana? It is precisely your moral line of reasoning here that creates SO MANY problems in the world. We are not here to torture ourselves, the whole point of living is to enjoy it, and the world sucks, it is intelligence for us if we can find some relief! Is this not the very nature of classical music? Do we listen for pleasure or education?


"Whose to say they need to be doing more"

If a patient can afford marijuana but they won't pay their medical bill, their telephone bill, their rent...maybe they should be doing more.

If a young woman has a new baby needing care, she should be "doing more". I have a lovely young lady with a beautiful new baby wasting time trying to chase a medical marijuna card just so she can be legal. she does not have any medical conditions proven to be treated successfully with marijuana and in fact has conditions that can be worsened by it.I'm sorry she needs to be considering that maybe now is not the best time in her life to be focusing on marijuana but on that new baby.

I have no problem whatsoever with someone enjoying themselves. Even enjoying themselves with some alcohol or marijuana from time to time. I treat all of my patients with respect and compassion. But I'm also not sure what they really expect of me IF said use of those or other things leads to DIMINISHMENT of their health and pleasure, there's only so much I can do about that.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> One of my friends is a brilliant doctor (he even gave a Tedtalk) and he smokes marijuana nearly every day. The point is, there are many sane, competent, intelligent people using this substance and they are not being diminished by it.
> THC has many positive benefits, and not all of these are physical, I would argue that the most important and powerful ones, the longest lasting effects, are how it shapes our perspective of ourselves and the world. One day we will all die, we only have one chance to comprehend things and treat people well. THC has helped many people to obtain a broader comprehension of existence, and from this it has made them better human beings. We need more compassion in the world, we need more kindness, if THC can help with this then it has my vote. I don't want to live in a violent world. Children suffer when this happens. What does it mean to be healthy? I say it means we understand our material context, I say it means we understand our limitations and great need for each other. I say it means we treat each other, not with violence or moral contempt, but with kindness and enlightened understanding.


Again, if you can give me specific links to the studies you have read that won you over about the value of THC specifically, I would be interested to read


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> "Whose to say they need to be doing more"
> 
> If a patient can afford marijuana but they won't pay their medical bill, their telephone bill, their rent...maybe they should be doing more.
> 
> ...


My dear doctor, you ought to try actually thinking about this woman's plight, struggle, existence, suffering, insecurities, instead of simply objectifying her. Try to see the world from her perspective. I doubt her social upbringing endowed her with your intellectual abilities or confidence.

My friend, I am not for the use of any substance at the neglect of other human beings. I believe you mean well, but I think there is more to the picture. I think your view is too narrow. The world is actually not a simple place. People really do suffer here, and many of them suffer beyond comprehension. Why is it that this fact does not move us? I argue that great music affects us precisely in such a way; it expands our awareness and compassion, it deepens our sense of humanity. Beethoven knew this, Mahler knew this.

There will always be people in the world who need more help than others. I say we should help them and not demonize them. The truth is we all need help. Some of us were fortunate to have this help from our parents, from the communities we grew up in, others are not so lucky, from the time of birth their life is full of adversity. THC is not the enemy, cruelty, selfishness and ignorance are the enemy.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Klassic said:


> One of my friends is a brilliant doctor (he even gave a Tedtalk) and he smokes marijuana nearly every day. The point is, there are many sane, competent, intelligent people using this substance and they are not being diminished by it.
> 
> Do you know where the anti-war movement originated in America? With the hippies. Do you know why? Because through the expansion of their consciousness they could see how foolish and vicious it was. The truth is we are all in the same boat. We are stuck on this planet, and the best way for us to get along is to help each other. THC has many positive benefits, and not all of these are physical, I would argue that the most important and powerful ones, the longest lasting effects, are how it shapes our perspective of ourselves and the world. One day we will all die, we only have one chance to comprehend things and treat people well. THC has helped many people to obtain a broader comprehension of existence, and from this it has made them better human beings. We need more compassion in the world, we need more kindness, if THC can help with this then it has my vote. I don't want to live in a violent world. Children suffer when this happens. What does it mean to be healthy? I say it means we understand our material context, I say it means we understand our limitations and great need for each other. I say it means we treat each other, not with violence or moral contempt, but with kindness and enlightened understanding.


I too would welcome evidence rather than anecdote in support of your opinion


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Haydn man said:


> I too would welcome evidence rather than anecdote in support of your opinion


Oh come on, are you saying I have to provide documentation every time I use the clause: "They've done studies, man."


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I don't demonize this young lady. Can you honestly read what I've written and say that I am objectifying her? "I doubt her social upbringing endowed her with your intellectual abilities or confidence"

My educational opportunities are a gift to be sure and one I am thankful for. I chuckle a little if you see confidence. Or maybe I act well, I don't know, because my life has been fraught with self doubt and insecurity. I think I've come a ways in the past couple of years, but it's there in the background. But I've used it as a tool, to constantly reexamine and adjust my life when I can. 

You think my view is too narrow but you know almost nothing of my worldview dear Klassic. I'm sure you mean well, but you don't see that I work there in the trenches every day. I do not doubt their poverty, doubt their pain. I've sat and held hands and cried with them as they've shared their lives with me. I have paid for medication, called on the weekend, lost sleep wondering if someone was going to make it through the day. I've wondered, worried, second guessed. Could I do more? Did I do enough? To the point that I struggled with my own mental health problems. And I'd go through every damned bit of it again because I love my patients. They are another family to me.


"my friend I am not for the use of any substance at the neglect of other human beings"

Yet....my friend I showed you one such example and you justify those actions....


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Sonata said:


> "Whose to say they need to be doing more"
> 
> If a patient can afford marijuana but they won't pay their medical bill, their telephone bill, their rent...maybe they should be doing more.
> 
> ...


Lots of drug addicts spend their money on drugs and steals the rest they need.
What does deprofoundis have to say?


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

The strongest social "drug" I've ever taken is a double espresso from my local coffee bar. If I was going to push the boat out on a mad evening I might be tempted to have another. Apart from that, nothing except prescription drugs for usual medical ailments. I've never smoked and can't stand the sight of anyone doing so.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Yep. Even sex is better on THC. Now if you combine sex, THC and Beethoven's 9th, you're in heaven (the Earthly one)


Or in _A Clockwork Orange_.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> Again, if you can give me specific links to the studies you have read that won you over about the value of THC specifically, I would be interested to read


Doctor I will provide you with some links, but surely it should be clear to all, that you being a doctor, and not being familiar with the latest research on THC, to so presumptuously set out against it, is not only premature but irresponsible.

It is hard for me to take you serious when you, as a doctor, should know full well that alcohol is far more destructive. Do you equally complain about this? If you were serious about making the world better, I would expect your moral crusade to start here long before THC.

I would recommend to begin your education by watching "The Culture High." You can find it on Amazon Prime.

Another documentary to watch is called the "420: The Documentary," it is also on Amazon Prime. Maybe some other people on here can recommend some quality links?


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Oh come on, are you saying I have to provide documentation every time I use the clause: "They've done studies, man."


That depends on what we are debating. If you want me to believe something as oppose to simply agreeing or disagreeing with you then yes I would like a little more than has been so far offered beyond personal anecdote or conspiracy theory to justify the claims for THC


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> You think my view is too narrow but you know almost nothing of my worldview dear Klassic. I'm sure you mean well, but you don't see that I work there in the trenches every day. I do not doubt their poverty, doubt their pain. I've sat and held hands and cried with them as they've shared their lives with me. I have paid for medication, called on the weekend, lost sleep wondering if someone was going to make it through the day. I've wondered, worried, second guessed. Could I do more? Did I do enough? To the point that I struggled with my own mental health problems. And I'd go through every damned bit of it again because I love my patients. They are another family to me.


Friend I apologize for my own presumption. As your fellow human being I care that you suffer, and I thank you for taking on such a difficult profession. What we all need is more education and more compassion. We should all try harder to listen to each other (and be humble!). I very much like the work of Gabor Mate (who is also a fanatic of classical music). He has worked with addicts for many years. He wrote a wonderful book titled "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts." I do not want to alienate myself from you, nor do I want to alienate you.

The world is changing. We are learning so much more, and as we continue to grow I have no doubt we will come to see that THC (as well as many other substances) are not the demons they have been made out to be.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Mmmmm...yummy. Taste that ad hominem soup. It's delicious!

I am quite aware of alcohol's dangers young man. My father is an alcoholic. But this is not a thread on alcoholism is it? I could also talk about the dangers of huffing paint thinner or the nuisance trouble that occurs when one's parachute doesn't open when skydiving. I can even go one further and acknowledge the dangers of prescription medications and that the medical community needs to emphasize non pharmacological treatments whenever possible. I wasn't under the impression though that this forum topic was about alcohol or huffing or skydiving or prescription medications. Whip one of those up and I'll be happy to debate. I'll also be happy to note that I in no way condemned marijuana or those who use it.

Whether or not you take me serious if of no consequence to me, but thank you for the heads up. I again have read quite a bit about marijuana and eagerly await the latest find from you regarding THC. I wasn't aware that I was running a crusade of any kind but since you mention it, I suppose my chief medical "crusade" is trying to incorporate cognitive behavioral therapy techniques into primary care so my patients without access or willingness to see a mental health specialist may learn some strategies to combat anxiety and depression.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Weed has never been proven to cause physical harm leading to the death of any individual. 
The only real negatives with weed come from interactions with the brains of people with underlying mental illness (anxiety, depression, schizophrenia etc) and is the reason I personally don't use it.

If you consider it more dangerous than Alcohol, dangerous enough to be put in the same category of illegality as Heroin and above that of Methamphetamine, you're simply ignorant of how the system works. Alcohol and nicotine already have billion dollar corporations controlling them, they don't want competition in the form of legalized marijuana and thus keep the politicians bribed enough to keep up the facade that weed is worse than both of them. It's simply not true in any way.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

It is not innocent,( what is ) It is a fact that it is more dangerous than alcohol.Our brain is a very sensitive thing,its better not to pollute it.
Now the fun,we pay later.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Interesting opening sentence
THC is a psychoactive chemical that must have caused harm to someone who used it, given it alters your perception of reality just like alcohol. Would you let someone give your son/daughter a lift in their car if they were 'stoned'
I do not wish to demonise THC users to each his own, just lets be clear that it is not risk free

This post is in reply to post 62 I was a bit slow typing


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

Actually, if you don't have any underlying psychological issues, weed is indeed risk free. 

Alcohol literally does nothing besides immediately kill you if you drink 13 shots instead of 8. You literally cannot overdose on marijuana. 

Please check the statistics for "deaths immediately attributable to the consumption of alcohol or tobacco" vs "deaths immediately attributable to the consumption of marijuana" and you'll find something like..millions for the first question, and zero for the second question.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

Off course it is not without risk,you must be stupid not seeing it.The damage is evident,there is much more harmful substance in hasj wich can cause cancer than in a cigarette to keep it very simple.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana:

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000884

http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/news-and-research/


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

It may be fun to talk about marijuana, but this thread is supposedly about THC and classical music. I don't see much discussion of classical music lately. This thread has the potential to devolve into personal comments. If it does, we will close it.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

In the interest of acknowledging all sides of the issue I do have a terminaif it enhances her ly ill patient, a lovely young woman for whom our conventional comfort meds have failed. She pursued medical marijuanauana which I supported. She only uses topical when caring for her kids and will use edibles if she has another caregiver in the home. It has been very beneficial in providing her some rest and confort in her remaining time. So... I do see the different sides to the issue

Editing to stay on topic: she loves music. I shall ask next time I see her If it enhances her enjoyment or understanding of the music and what the THC concentration of her medical marijuana is  she is certainly a better piano player than I am! :lol:


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Dear moderator, I understand, but you must give some of us credit. Sadly the logic of the conversation runs thus: 'THC increases the power of classical music.' 

But then the objector seeks to attack the medical integrity of the premise, this necessarily leads into a conversation regarding the empirical integrity of the substance. Sadly, much work must be done, to educate the mind of the objector, which is no doubt operating according to outdated taboos and moral platitudes. 

THC is not evil. 
Those who use THC are not evil, and neither are they lacking intelligence or comprehension. 

Classical music and THC is one of the most humanitarian experiences that a human being can ever have.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

The reason I believe music is so powerful on THC (especially classical music) is because THC allows the mind to linger in the moment, it slows things down so the mind can savor, it is not in such a hurry. And my friends, we all ought to learn to savor classical beauty. 

There are of course, other positive gains from this slower pace. One can pause and reflect on their character and actions, how they are treating their friends and family; what kind of person we are becoming day by day. We all need to slow down! Thank you happy little green plant!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Meditation can be an additional avenue for slowing things down. I can be a very valuable practice with potential health benefits


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

It enhance ones understanding of music.I remember that I was as a young man struggling with Brahms,I did not like it.I smoked some marihuana and "voila",I was friends with Brahms and that remains also without the drug.
This was not the first time.I remember that I smoked my first joint and a room mate put a record on from Pink Floyd.I did not like it and asked to put it of.After a while the drug had effect on me and I wondered how it was possible to value it completely different.

Twenty years ago I stopped radically and never had once the urge to smoke it again.I am completely indifferent to it.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Also, keep in mind we are already ingesting chemicals. Food is chemicals. And the things we ingest, we do so, presumably, to increase and sustain our health. Do you ever drink coffee to help you go, to help you wake up, to be more alert? Then you are using chemicals to regulate your mental state. One says, "this is not the same," but that is false. Like I said, we all need to slow down, take a step back and gain perspective. If you would take coffee to help you speed up, why not take THC to help you slow down? Indeed, we even take chemicals to help us slow down, the drug market (as the good doctor can tell you) is loaded with them. THC is not an illegitimate substance. At present it just has left-over taboos from the propaganda war on drugs. In time these will be uprooted and transcended. Read me from the future, not the past, and you will see that I speak sanity, enlightenment, compassion, common sense and truth.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

In the years I smoked I had to restrain myself in order to keep studying the clarinet.It is impossible to do the excercises,so that was the reason to do it only in the late evening to avoid that it controlled my life.
On a evening ( 20 years ago) it was suddenly so chrystal clear to me that I stopped without effort.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

We need more people to share their positive experiences. This is really what shatters the cultural taboo. Millions of people are benefited by this plant. At one time being gay was considered a mental illness, but now we know better, we have overcome our primitive fear. It is the same with THC. 

LOTS of people, LOTS of musicians use THC to compose music and enjoy music. This is a fact. And what do we say when we find out they have written a masterpiece on THC? Can we still say THC is evil, can we still call it a waste of life? What about those who have come to understand music they could never understand before, I would like those who deny the power of this substance to explain how this is possible? Many of us on this thread have already told you that we have been enabled by this substance. Did I waste my life if I take THC and learn the beauty of Brahms' Requiem?

People pay money to learn how to appreciate classical music.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2016)

In spite of a few experiences wich where great I do not have the inclination to support the use of hasj.Music was wonderful.I remember the Ravel pianoconcerto with Martha Argerich,the adagio assai was realy heaven on earth,magical.The same happened with "Die kunst der Fuge"played by Leonhardt".It was bliss but in a way I feel it is not healthy to pursue it.The wonders have to come naturally otherwise it is a sort of rape.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

What if there was a great conductor who had the special ability to instill in people a love for classical music? Would we value this person? Then why not THC? Do people claim that our testimonies are false? Are we lying about our experiences? 

Further, what does a good teacher do if not instill a love for learning; if not introduce us to things we had not known before. Maybe someone in your life, once upon a time, introduced you to Shakespeare or Beethoven, maybe they opened up a new world for you, are you grateful they did this? Would your life be better or worse if they had not done this? And yet, here we are telling you, matter of fact, that THC has helped us to understand forbidden worlds of music, it has opened new doors. Do you understand this my friends? 

My point is that there is something far more profound here than simply using THC in order to get stupid. Suppose you were never able to hear the beauty in Bruckner, suppose a friend sits down with you, and almost by sheer magic, enables you to understand and experience what has been eluding you. Would you place value on this? Would you be grateful to this person? Would they not have literally enhanced your experience of life? Here we are telling you that THC has done this for us. 

This is a topic worthy of discussion because it deals with the mystery and power of opening up new worlds. I hope you understand me my friends...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Recreational drugs "profound"? "Humanitarian"? Please.

Caffeine can help us stay alert. Alcohol can relax us and aid digestion. Opiates can moderate pain. Our bodies don't require these substances, but they all can enhance our lives when used wisely. They all can be abused when we consume them in excess or feel we can't do without them.

The enjoyment of music doesn't require the ingestion of psychoactive substances. Music itself is psychoactive, but it's also an art, the experience of which can be profound in the _true_ sense of the word, i.e., capable of speaking to the depth and complexity of our humanity. I feel no need to intensify the experience of it, and I certainly wouldn't want to see the use of drugs for that purpose by young people whose experiences of living are already intense, often problematically so. It's part of normal growth to acquire emotional stability and intellectual perspective, and hedonistically maximizing pleasure at every opportunity has always been recognized as inimical to this maturing process, especially in the developing psyches of the young.

Psychological addiction to sensation is as real, and potentially as destructive, as physical addiction. The desire for pleasure is natural, but it easily gets out of hand: people vary in their susceptibility, addiction to drugs, food, gambling, or sex (or several at once) are common, and we must make our choices among potentially addictive substances and activities carefully, in a context of self-knowledge. Young people normally lack such self-knowledge and are incapable of such careful choice, and the "enhancement" of experience through drugs, whether physically damaging or not, is not in their best interest. That's why we have parents - and why parents who are indulging in and struggling with their own addictions are not good examples.

A cultural imprimatur upon musical enhancement - or the enhancement of most other normal human pursuits - through drugs is an idea neither profound nor humanitarian. It's a damn poor idea. If you're an adult, can keep it under control, and want to do it, go ahead. Just don't glorify it in such absurd terms.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> The enjoyment of music doesn't require the ingestion psychoactive substances.


I never said it did. I don't think anyone on this thread ever said it did.

*"Recreational drugs "profound"? "Humanitarian"? Please."*

I did not call recreational drugs profound. I said they can produce a profound experience. Contrary to your intuition Woodduck, many of us have already given testimony to this, and I have already made the case for this. Just because you don't believe it, because you have not experienced it, means nothing. "There are more things in heaven and Earth, my dear Woodduck, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Its Fine to acknowledge the positive experience s but why the discomfort in discussing the other side of the coin?


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> Its Fine to acknowledge the positive experience s but why the discomfort in discussing the other side of the coin?


I have no discomfort (apart from sadness) in discussing the other side of the coin. I am not interested in distorting things or denying things. Did you watch the documentaries I recommended good doctor?

Gabor Mate's book is about the other side of the coin, in fact, it is about the whole coin.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Klassic said:


> I never said it did. I don't think anyone on this thread ever said it did.
> 
> *"Recreational drugs "profound"? "Humanitarian"? Please."*
> 
> I did not call recreational drugs profound. I said they can produce a profound experience. Contrary to your intuition Woodduck, many of us have already given testimony to this, and I have already made the case for this. Just because you don't believe it, because you have not experienced it, means nothing. *"There are more things in heaven and Earth, my dear Woodduck, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."*


And there are obviously far more things in the real world than are acknowledged by all this ecstatic glorification of things most people are better off staying away from. I even correctly defined "profound" for you, but you're too wrapped up in your quasi-religious get-the-world-high crusade (or maybe you're just "on" something) to have noticed - much less to have addressed the realistic objections or concerns of anyone else, including a medical doctor.

Here are some of your statements:

_One can understand the music so much more powerfully and clearly_ _[when taking THC]._

_It is precisely your moral line of reasoning here that creates SO MANY problems in the world. We are not here to torture ourselves, the whole point of living is to enjoy it, and the world sucks, it is intelligence for us if we can find some relief! Is this not the very nature of classical music?_

_Basically THC equals the increase of ALL aesthetics experiences (and is this not what we are trying to achieve by listening to classical music in the first place)? Are we not trying to have the best aesthetic experience we can? This is really what life is all about! _

_The point is, there are many sane, competent, intelligent people using this substance and they are not being diminished by it. _

_Do you know where the anti-war movement originated in America? With the hippies. Do you know why? Because through the expansion of their consciousness [in other words, getting stoned] they could see how foolish and vicious it was._

_THC has helped many people to obtain a broader comprehension of existence, and from this it has made them better human beings.

Classical music and THC is one of the most humanitarian experiences that a human being can ever have. 
_

Every one of these statements is problematic, false, and/or absurd. You have made a case for nothing except your own preference for taking drugs. Great. Take 'em. Just don't push your habit on our kids. I want them to know what "profound" and "humanitarian" actually mean.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

It's not my cup of tea. But people are free to do it if they want, as long as they do it responsibly.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Every one of these statements is problematic, false, and/or absurd. You have made a case for nothing except your own preference for taking drugs. Great. Take 'em. Just don't push your habit on our kids. I want them to know what "profound" and "humanitarian" actually mean.


If I didn't know the way you operate my dear Woodduck, I might be baffled, but I understand you quite well. At which point did I say kids should take THC? You are clearly distorting things and creating contentious staw-men (probably trying to get this thread closed down)*, and in my mind, this makes you lose credibility and integrity. You have no desire to look at any evidence; you have invalidated every testimony that has been given, your mind has been made up from the outset.

Many of us have repeatedly told you that we have been enabled by the use of THC. Your insinuation is that we are either liars or lunatics.

I have learned that you are very much a one trick pony. You are exceedingly skilled at rhetoric, by far the most gifted on all of TC, but you are lacking integrity in the use of your powers. You seek to insinuate things that are not true. You have attributed several things to me that I never said or never even implied. I called you on them, and your reply is simply to produce more insinuations and falsehoods, ignoring the fact that you shamelessly produced distortions. I have no interest in doing this. I have simply told the truth. We do not live in the world you grew up in, the world is changing my friend. A point I already made: once upon a time homosexuality was taken to be a mental illness. The same primitive thinking applies to THC. Your moral convictions are an unfounded (and destructive, unnecessarily polarizing) bias of the past.

What evidence do you have? What evidence can you provide? Have you ever taken THC?

*{which I might add, should be its own kind of infarction noted by the moderators. It is very low character to sabotage.}


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Klassic said:


> I have no discomfort (apart from sadness) in discussing the other side of the coin. I am not interested in distorting things or denying things. Did you watch the documentaries I recommended good doctor?
> 
> Gabor Mate's book is about the other side of the coin, in fact, it is about the whole coin.


I sure didn't. I have spent the day wIth my small children. All in due time Klassic.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

jailhouse said:


> Actually, if you don't have any underlying psychological issues, weed is indeed risk free.
> 
> Alcohol literally does nothing besides immediately kill you if you drink 13 shots instead of 8. You literally cannot overdose on marijuana.
> 
> Please check the statistics for "deaths immediately attributable to the consumption of alcohol or tobacco" vs "deaths immediately attributable to the consumption of marijuana" and you'll find something like..millions for the first question, and zero for the second question.


http://www.livescience.com/51650-edible-marijuana-death.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wrongful-d...istributor-edible-marijuana/story?id=39549209

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/05/fatal-road-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-state-legalizes-drug/


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonata said:


> http://www.livescience.com/51650-edible-marijuana-death.html
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wrongful-d...istributor-edible-marijuana/story?id=39549209
> 
> http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/05/fatal-road-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-state-legalizes-drug/


Dear doctor, I am exceedingly disappointed in your citations. In your first link a kid jumped to his death after eating marijuana. I'm sorry but this is a total equivocation of jailhouse's original point ["You literally cannot overdose on marijuana."]. His point stands. And (once again) you say nothing about alcohol. This is not serious and it proves that you are not serious, it also proves that you do indeed have an unbalanced moral bias against THC. This reminds me of those moral crusading republicans who want to go after a poor fella for welfare fraud, who got mere pennies, when there is some banker raping the entire stability of the economy. Your position cannot be serious, it can only be a joke, a scapegoat.

You're a doctor, show us a confirmed death from taking too much THC? You have nothing! People like you are laboring on the premise of an outdated morality from the past. Perhaps your greatest fear is that we are correct about the positive effects of THC.

Let the moderators close it down, I care not, but I am VERY GLAD you are not my doctor!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

There is so much more one could say... classical music and THC make for a wonderful, rich experience. I will never repent of it, and am only glad I had the chance to experience it in my life.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Merl said:


> I once listened to Kegel's Beethoven cycle whilst smoking banana skins. It was still *****.


This reminds me of


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

OK. There's simply too many comments that have nothing to do with music and too many comments that focus on other posters. The thread is closed.


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