# Franz Liszt: Piano Sonata in B minor



## flamencosketches

Just wanted to create a thread dedicated to this phenomenal work.

Here is a link in case anyone here has not heard it:






Another great recording:






I blame this amazing sonata for putting me off of the rest of Liszt's music, because nothing else could possibly live up to it... or am I wrong...? What are some other Liszt works that are in the same general ballpark of greatness as this one? To extend that question, what are some other works by any other composers that are in the same universe as this one...? The only ones that come to mind are Schumann's Fantasy in C major, and MAYBE Schubert's "Wanderer" Fantasy. I think with this piece Liszt has given Beethoven a run for his money. Such beautiful, intense music....

Do you like this work? What are some of your favorite recordings? Have you ever seen anyone perform it live?


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## Josquin13

Flamencosketches asks, "What are some other Liszt works that are in the same general ballpark of greatness as this one?"

It's his greatest work (and I agree that Schumann's Fantasia in C major, Op. 17, is comparable). But I think Liszt's "Bénédiction de Dieu dans la solitude" is a great work, too:





Among Liszt's shorter pieces, I particularly like "Harmonies du soir", from his Transcendental Etudes:










You should also try to hear Liszt's Années de Pélerinage (translated, "Years of Pilgrimage"), which is comprised of three books of solo piano works: the first book is called the "Swiss Years", while the 2nd & 3rd books are set in Italy. There are some real gems in these books, such as "Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este" from Book 3:

Zoltan Kocsis, third book: 



Alfred Brendel, first & second books: 



Lazar Berman, complete: 




(Among other pianists, Jorge Bolet: 



, and Jerome Lowenthal: 



 are worth hearing in this music, too. I've also liked Louis Lortie's early recording of Book 2 on Chandos, and I'd say a bit more than his recent complete set for the same label: https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Annees...is+lortie+liszt&qid=1563403528&s=music&sr=1-4.)

I would additionally recommend the book, "Conversations with Arrau", which is a series of interviews with pianist Claudio Arrau by Joseph Horowitz. A composer friend once recommended to me when I first began to explore classical music:

https://www.amazon.com/Conversation...u+conversations&qid=1563402396&s=books&sr=1-1
A later reissue of the same book: https://www.amazon.com/Arrau-Music-...u+conversations&qid=1563402396&s=books&sr=1-2

Among much else in the book, there is an important chapter on Liszt, where Arrau discusses his boyhood training in Berlin with Liszt's favorite last pupil, Martin Krause. He explains why he thought Liszt's music was misunderstood by the piano virtuosos of the 20th century. In contrast, Arrau plays the Liszt Sonata in B minor in a less showy manner and with more technical reserve, and that came from Krause, according to Arrau, & therefore was presumably an integral part of Liszt's teaching. There's no late Romantic schmaltz or heavy banging on the piano keys, or showing off one's virtuosity, which was known to make Liszt furious as a teacher. Instead, I find the music deeply moving, which rarely happens for me in other recordings of the Sonata.

Here is a Liszt student, Frederic Lamond, speaking about his studies with Liszt:





Another Liszt pupil, Emil von Sauer, told one of his students that Liszt wouldn't have recognized his music the way it was being played by the big virtuosos in the 1930s, as they were playing it "too loud and too fast". Which is definitely something to think about, when listening to the scores of pianists that pound their way through Liszt's music.

Alfred Brendel also had a special connection to Krause, through his studies with Edwin Fischer, who was a Krause student, like Arrau. Indeed, Brendel has spoken about and plays the B minor Sonata as a 'Faustian drama'--which needs to be understood to fully comprehend the music. (It is something that Ivo Pogorelich should have read and thought about before he decided to toss off the final note of the Sonata in such a blunt, nihilist manner.)

Not surprisingly, Arrau and Brendel's recordings are my two favorites, as they turn the B minor Sonata into thoughtful, poetic, literary & metaphorical music:










(I also like Louis Lortie's exciting early recording for Chandos, and consider it underrated.)

Here are two excellent buys (although the B minor Sonata in the Arrau box set is his later digital recording for Philips, and not Arrau's earlier analog Philips recording, which I prefer--see below*):

https://www.amazon.de/Brendel-spiel...szt+eloquence&qid=1563406616&s=gateway&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.de/Arrau-spielt-...szt+eloquence&qid=1563406663&s=gateway&sr=8-1

*But most of all, I'd recommend the following expensive but 'desert island' Japanese shm-hybrid SACD in my collection--which was a splurge I've never regretted, as the audiophile sound quality is exceptional and better than on the various CD issues, even when played on a conventional player: https://www.amazon.com/Sonata-minor...rrau+liszt+sacd&qid=1563406713&s=music&sr=1-2

My 7 cents.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> What are some other Liszt works that are in the same general ballpark of greatness as this one?


The Grosses Konzertsolo S176


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## Mandryka

One thing I feel is that to play this sort of music in an interesting way you have to be a bit mad, this isn't poised music, it's about the expression of something which reason makes inaccessible. The best Liszt performers were often junkies and drunks.

My own favourite Liszt performer is Ervin Nyiregyhazi, who made a recording in the 1970s dedicated to Liszt, you can sample the style easily enough on youtube, if you want a transfer of the LP let me know. He recorded the three threnodies at the end of the Années.


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## NLAdriaan

Ahh, the Liszt sonata is my absolute favourite Liszt piece. Typically a piece for more than one ideal interpretation. I love the relatively extreme Argerich, the more distant Brendel and the ideal Richter, be it that I only have a vague 1965 Russian radio recording, issued on Brilliant Classics.

From the modern recordings, I read good things about Yuja Wang and Marc Andre Hamelin, but have not yet listened to them. Am curious about opinions from others. Dimace is a connaisseur of Liszt, maybe he would be willing to share his thoughts with us.

As my other favourite Liszt piece, I would like to throw in Reinbert de Leeuw, with his solo reading of Via Crucis. He also made 2 beautiful recordings of the version with choir. A non-typical abstract and minimalist Liszt piece, I am not a fan of the virtuoso Liszt:


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## flamencosketches

^Thanks for that NLAdriaan. I am not familiar with that work Via Crucis at all, but I am a fan of de Leeuw. 

@Josquin, thanks for the book recommendation, I shall have to check that out. I'm a relatively new fan of Arrau's. The Eloquence box sets look great too, I'll have to flip a coin and see if I want the Brendel or the Arrau, as I love both :lol:

@Mandryka, I have never heard of him, was he a drunk, a junky, or both? I'll check out his recording of the sonata.


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## NLAdriaan

flamencosketches said:


> ^Thanks for that NLAdriaan. I am not familiar with that work Via Crucis at all, but I am a fan of de Leeuw.







Interesting video (with English subtitles) explaining the Via Crucis by Reinbert de Leeuw himself.


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## Mandryka

Nyiregihazi was addicted to alcohol and to sex, he may also have liked a bit of heroin. His Liszt recording was made in a dry patch. Kevin Bazzana - who wrote some interesting books on Glenn Gould - wrote a good book about him.

Cortot, another opium user, made a fine recording of the sonata.









In addition to Via Crucis, there are other worthwhile choral pieces, a requiem, this, a performance by Janos Ferencsik, when you're in the mood, is just the job









By the way, Liszt wrote two sonatas. The smaller one, the Dante, has been given a very good by Cziffra in Turin in 1959


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## Littlephrase

And in addition to Via Crucis and the Requiem, how about Liszt's massive masterpiece oratorio, Christus?


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## NLAdriaan

Littlephrase1913 said:


> And in addition to Via Crucis and the Requiem, how about Liszt's massive masterpiece oratorio, Christus?


A bit too massive for my taste.

Interesting that one man could honour his religion with such extreme different compositions as this massive Oratorio and minimal music in the Via Crucis. There is some 10-15 years between both compositions.

Do you know Liszt last symphonic poem 'Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe' s.107?:





Interesting that Liszt in his last creative period cut the romantic crap and developed a sort of minimal avant garde music, like Via Crucis and the 'Wiege Grabe' symphonic poem.

Just compare this to his son-in-law Wagner who wrote Parsifal as a farewell piece in the same time.

Fascinating fact is that Wagner reacted frantic to the new musical directions of his neighbour in Bayreuth and father-in-law. Liszt in his old day actually found new ways and Wagner just couldn't reject his old ideas and make the step ahead towards the avant garde of the later second Viennese school.


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## Josquin13

I need to correct a link in my earlier post, but am now unable to do so. At the bottom of the post, I mistakenly linked to the single layer Japanese SACD of Claudio Arrau's Philips recording of the Liszt B minor Sonata (which only plays on a SACD player), when I meant to link to the more rare Hybrid SACD issue (which is compatible on both conventional CD & SACD players). So, here's a link to the hybrid SACD version, as intended, and sorry for my mistake:

On Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/リスト-ピアノ作品集/d...ords=B0006GAYGI&qid=1563548283&s=music&sr=8-1

On Amazon Japan: https://www.amazon.co.jp/リスト-ピアノ作品集...t+hybrid+sacd&qid=1563548174&s=gateway&sr=8-2


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## MarkW

About the only Liszt work I listen to regularly. For my taste (depending on what I had for breakfast), the Arrau and Argerich recordings pretty much cover the range from A to A.


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## flamencosketches

MarkW said:


> About the only Liszt work I listen to regularly. For my taste (depending on what I had for breakfast), the Arrau and Argerich recordings pretty much cover the range from A to A.


The Argerich is so good, isn't it? Still have to get around to hearing the Arrau... I've been taking a break from his music.


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## gardibolt

I went through a huge binge of listening to Liszt and did a comparative blind listening test of the Sonatas in B minor I was able to track down.

To my surprise, the best of the lot was by the indefatigable Jenö Jandó on Naxos:






To me he properly captures the mood of the piece while still making the structure clear--a failing of many pianists who specialize in the pyrotechnics.

I do like the Argerich, Arrau and Horowitz as well though. Liszt's choral music in general is worth exploring in depth; there's still quite a lot of it that hasn't been recorded.


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## lextune

Every time this thread pops up again I always add my old blog post:
http://lextune.blogspot.com/2006/03/liszt-sonata.html?m=1


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## howlingfantods

Sofronitsky has some wonderful performances of the B minor, including one from 1960 in much better sound then we usually get to hear of him.






This performance is on this CD, which also has a fantastic performance of the Schubert D960.


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## flamencosketches

howlingfantods said:


> Sofronitsky has some wonderful performances of the B minor, including one from 1960 in much better sound then we usually get to hear of him.
> 
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> This performance is on this CD, which also has a fantastic performance of the Schubert D960.
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> View attachment 123460


Awesome. Thanks. That CD looks like a must. I love Sofronitsky. What is it with the Russians and Schubert? It seems his piano music is extremely popular with Russian pianists.


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## Roger Knox

If one really focuses on the music in the Transcendental Etudes, and not just the pyrotechnics, they include a lot of amazing, beautiful works.


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## Eva Yojimbo

Possibly my favorite solo piano work. I only say "possibly" because, on some days, in some moods, I might declare a handful of Beethoven's late sonatas or Schubert's 21st sonata superior; yet, even having said that, the Liszt is the only one with which I was obsessed with, albeit for a brief period of time (though that speaks more about my restless mind than anything lacking in the work). As with most works of that breadth and depth, I don't believe any one performance perfectly captures all of its nuances. I recall enjoying Hamelin's more detached musicality (perhaps the "cleanest" interpretation I've heard), Richter's flexibility in treating each part individually and distinctive, Argerich's fire and drama (Lisitsa's is a more recent interpretation in this vein; terribly exciting, if a bit wonky on the tempi and blurry in some parts), Arrau's sensitivity and poetic depth... undoubtedly others that I'm forgetting at the moment.



flamencosketches said:


> I blame this amazing sonata for putting me off of the rest of Liszt's music, because nothing else could possibly live up to it... or am I wrong...? What are some other Liszt works that are in the same general ballpark of greatness as this one? To extend that question, what are some other works by any other composers that are in the same universe as this one...? The only ones that come to mind are Schumann's Fantasy in C major, and MAYBE Schubert's "Wanderer" Fantasy. I think with this piece Liszt has given Beethoven a run for his money. Such beautiful, intense music....


While I do believe the sonata is Liszt's supreme masterpiece, he also wrote a tremendous amount of other great piano music, much of which has already been mentioned. The Années de pèlerinage is long and uneven, but contains many wonderful moments. Similar with the Transcendental Etudes. As for other solo piano works on the same level, I think you mentioned much of the competition: Schumann's Fantasy (I'd be inclined to include his Davidsbundlertanze and Symphonic Etudes as well), Schubert's Wanderer and 21st sonata, late Beethoven, and a handful of Chopin (the Preludes and Ballades especially), perhaps Debussy's Preludes... though I don't think I'd definitively rank any of these above the Liszt.


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## flamencosketches

Thank you for your excellent post, Eva. I am still obsessed with Argerich's fiery approach, but am trying to get my hands on Sofronitsky, Horowitz, and Richter as far as more historical recordings, and Arrau as something more modern. I'm holding out for the 6CD "Arrau spielt Liszt" box set which appears to include performances of some of the other great pieces you mentioned, the Années de pèlerinage and some of the Transcendental Études. 

PS. My eyes are now opened to the greatness of Schumann's Symphonic Études. I really like Jean-Philippe Collard's performance of them on EMI. So good.


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## Larkenfield

lextune said:


> Every time this thread pops up again I always add my old blog post:
> http://lextune.blogspot.com/2006/03/liszt-sonata.html?m=1


Helpful article with interesting insights. However, if you don't mind a minor correction: Krystian Zimerman has one less 'm'. Arrau's is my top choice too. I've played it more times than I can remember because it has such weight, depth and substance. Good list of recordings!


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