# How to start appreciating opera?



## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

Of all the types of classical music I like opera the least.

There are many difficulties that I face when I try to enjoy opera.

First, it is not only music, it has the story and dramatic elements. So, in order to understand opera fully I must know what it is about. To do this I have to either understand the text (which is usually in Italian, and even though I know a bit of Italian it is not enough to understand text which is usually full of archaic words) or read the plot in advance. But if I read the plot it is as if I watched the film for the second time - a bit boring.

Second, operas are usually very long in duration which is a bit of problem in itself. If I enjoyed the plot it wouldn't be very big problem.
One idea that I still have to try is to get libretto together with translation and read it while listening to opera. I think this might help me, but I'm not sure.

Third, I find some very high pitched voices in opera a bit irritant and abrasive. I will say the heresy - I even find them even a bit artificial, unnatural. The same thing rarely happens with other vocal works, but in opera I find it is quite common. 

Having said all that, I still want to find a way to understand, appreciate and enjoy opera knowing its huge importance in classical music. Can you give me some more suggestions?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Whistlerguy said:


> operas are usually very long in duration which is a bit of problem in itself.


Listen to one act at a time then.


> One idea that I still have to try is to get libretto together with translation and read it while listening to opera. I think this might help me, but I'm not sure.


Of course it would help. It's the only way to listen to opera unless you know the libretto inside out.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I guess it varies from person to person. I'll list my experience, might be relevent to you.

I'm 35 years old and had a general appreciation for classical music, could tell the difference between a random Beethoven vs. Mozart piece, but not much more than that. About a year ago I watched (for the nth time) Amadeus, a film I love despite how historically inaccurate it is. There was one part that always bugged me in the movie, which was the bit from The Magic Flute that had some lady in a cloud squeaking. Seemed really pretty bad, I'd thought so every time I watched the movie. So I decided to see if there was something I was missing about it, or if it was really that mediocre. So, after some googling I found out the meaning of the song (both lyrics and its role in the opera), and I also stumbled on this performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXOYcd6KZ0E#t=2m03s (as with any youtube links, choose the highest resolution available in the lower right corner of the video for best audio / video quality).
No subtitles there unfortunately, you can find those here: http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/opera/qt/derhollerache.htm

Needless to say, I was absolutely floored. From there I decided to look up other songs I had turned my nose up at, like that song where a guy sings Figaro! Figaro! over and over again (aka the Bugs Bunny opera song). What a silly song! But it's actually really really good!




 (not my most favorite rendition, but it has the benefit of subtitles)

Of course, it will be different for you -- you might not care for either of the above. In general, though, I think starting from the bottom and working up (finding songs you like, and eventually moving to an opera that features several songs you've grown to love, rather than just turning on a 3 hour performance of Nozze and expecting not to be bored) is the way to go. Listen to several "famous" arias, with subtitles if possible. Find both songs you like, and search out more from that opera and/or composer, and singers you like and find more songs by that singer, and slowly branch out.

I'll list a few songs that I think even the most ardent hater of opera would find entertaining:
























 (poor audio quality and since there are no subs, a bit of explanation may be necessary. Olympia is a wind-up doll that sings a simple song about how to a young girl everything seems to speak of love (lyrics: http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/classicalmusictips/qt/les_oiseaux_dans_la_charmille.htm ), while Hoffman, who can't see she is a doll due to special glasses, falls in love with her. I link this performance specifically because despite the poor audio quality, it is hilarious. Natalie Dessay is truly an actress par excellence.





If you don't find any of the above entertaining, it could just be that opera isn't for you. Nothing wrong with that, not every art has to be appealing to every person.

If you decide you do want to dive in and watch a full opera, I'd suggest Orphee Aux Enfers (the operetta from which the Duo De La Mouche I posted above is from) as a great first choice, specifically the Laurent Pelly / Natalie Dessay version. It's short (by opera standards), modern staging and pacing, one great song after another, riotously funny, some really great performances (both singing / acting) and just a much more modern feel than, say, Mozart -- it's very over-the-top and satiricial.


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## ozradio (Oct 23, 2008)

Whistlerguy said:


> Of all the types of classical music I like opera the least.
> But if I read the plot it is as if I watched the film for the second time - a bit boring.


I understand what you're saying but I generally read a synopsis of an opera first otherwise I often get lost. I have to listen to an opera 2 or 3 times before I have a good feel for the flow and rhythm of an opera. One exposure works with a film, but not with opera.

Like another poster, I'm 35 and love the genre. I'd listen to it even more if it wasn't such a time commitment (I do an act at a time as someone else suggested) and if I didn't have to follow along closely with the libretto (a must). I don't know any other strategies to enjoy it; I love opera and can't explain why, much to the bewilderment and amusement of my wife.


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

I just started my journey in opera recently. My first was Don Giovanni, which I absolutely loved. I was really surprised by the humor in it. Then I went on to Turandot, which was the first one I had to go back and listen to over again. The melodies were incredible, the way the emotion and drama intertwines with the music is just stunning. That's the opera I recommend starting with. Next was a series of Wagner (Tristan, Die Meistersinger, Bohms Ring Cycle), the only one I really loved was Das Rheinegold, I found Siegfried to be absolutely annoying, and perhaps a little mentally retarded, in short - a complete idiot. I think I'm done with Wagner, the characters seem to operate on a juvenile level, which I just cannot stand. 

I bought a Puccini "Definitive Edition" recording box which is what I'll focus on next. The recordings in it are stunning, but maybe a little too perfect and clinical. Then comes the rest of Mozarts operas. 

So my recommendation - youtube Turandot, listen to some of the arias to see if they grab you, but realize that you're only getting part of the experience. If you like it - buy a copy (that includes the libretto), set yourself in a quiet room away from everyone and follow along with the text.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Opera by its nature is music theatre and has never been designed to be just listened to. It has be be seen and even preferably experienced in the flesh for true appreciation and enjoyment, so maybe the first thing is to get a DVD and watch it an act at a time. 

It's probably best to choose music that is close in character to what you already enjoy. What non-opera classical music do you listen to most?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I was seduced from the moment of attending my first opera in person. There is nothing to compare with the real-life experience. In most instances there are subtitles that allow you to follow the story easily... especially when coupled with the dram being acted out upon the stage.

As for the problem with operatic vocals... yes, they are "artificial"... it's art, not life. What's the quote? "Opera is when a guy gets stabbed in the back and, instead of bleeding, he sings." The entire experience is theater... spectacle.

Beyond the live experience, if you are really serious about exploring opera I would suggest you read up a bit on it. I greatly enjoyed the book, _The Story of Opera_ by Richard Somerset-Ward which gives a great history of opera for the novice illustrated lavishly. It can be found rather inexpensive used. But undoubtedly there are other good books.

I would also suggest you might want to explore recitals by various singers of note which collect highlights of various operas. Look for discs by Maria Callas, Joan Sutherland, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Teresa Berganza, Fritz Wunderlich, Jussi Bjorling, Placido Domingo, Luciano Pavaroti, Janet Baker, Lucia Popp, Cecilia Bartoli, Renee Flemming, Magdalena Kozena, Carlo Berganzi, Franco Corelli,


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

Thanks guys for all responses. In OP, I forgot to mention that there are some arias that I absolutely love, but haven't yet had meaningful experience with entire opera. I'll try to follow your suggestions, and I will tell you about my experiences as I progress.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

I have the absolute same problem. I try and try, and still just can't get into opera, with a few rare exceptions.

My advice is to go to your local library and see if you can find an opera recording on DVD. Treat it like a movie. You can turn on the subtitles and have the translation to follow along. Having a visual to put with it helps understand it better.

As I said, some I like, most I don't. I can't get into most Wagner - I am slowly coming to appreciate Die Meistersinger, but only after great difficulty. Strauss has been somewhat entertaining to me (esp. Ariadne auf Naxos). Mainly German operas, because I am fairly competent with German.

My major exceptions are Mozart, esp. Figaro and Magic Flute. The Magic Flute is my absolute favorite, and one of my favorite classical works, period. After that, Beethoven's Fidelio. I found a DVD of Fidelio in my library a while back which helped immensely.

I agree about the high falsettos. I rented a DVD of Monteverdi's L'Incorronazione di Poppea (Jacobs conducting), and was very put off by the high falsetto of one of the MALE characters. In many situations they had male characters singing some of the higher parts (I suspect due to the use of castrati in earlier times). It was like fingernails on a chalkboard. I couldn't watch the rest. 

If you can't get into the whole thing, look for highlights recordings that leave out all the spoken parts (although those become almost non-existent once you hit Wagner). Klemperer's recording of Mozart's Magic Flute on EMI is excellent in this regard - he only recorded the singing portions, and left out the spoken parts. That way you can enjoy the music and singing (and the men sound like men, and the women sound like women, although the Queen of the Night sounds like a superwoman!). Some people will say this is blasphemy, but who cares. That is how I now listen to Wagner - I have a recording by Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra entitled Wagner Without Words, and I love it more than the full operas.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

If you don't like something then don't listen to it.

Don't try to force yourself to enjoy or appreciate something you clearly don't. Try listening again to opera in a few years and your opinions might have changed, or they might not. Listen to what you enjoy, whilst you still enjoy it, and then if/when you stop enjoying that, _then_ listen to something else.

Simple as that.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm not ashamed to say I got into it only because of the Three Tenors and then only because I thought José Carreras was cute. I bought a CD he'd made of opera arias & grew to love them. From there I bought a CD Box Set of an opera with the full libretto. These are great little books with a page of the words in the original language opposite a page of translation. There's often a bit about the composer & a potted history of the opera which is great for putting it in context and a synopsis of the story. 

Don't expect to fall in love with an opera straight away. Give yourself time to get to know it; read the synopsis & just play a few scenes to start with & follow the words. After a while you'll be able to listen to the music/arias & even if you don't know the language you'll know what is happening in the story at that moment. And as others have said, opera DVDs are great for learning the story. 

Good luck with your project!


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

I suggest listening to operas by composers whose non-operatic music you already like. I'm not a fan of opera as a form of music but I enjoy those by Janacek, Tippett, Berlioz and a few others.


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## Poppin' Fresh (Oct 24, 2009)

Honestly, I took right to opera, so it's hard for me to relate to some of the difficulties people experience with it. Of course I never approached it like I would "abstract" musical forms, and never tried to. I can understand the difficulties with that approach. Listening to hours of music, and often recitiative, without any sense of how or why the music is being organized would be boring to the extreme when first being introduced to a work for anyone I think. Ditto for trying to follow a dramatic performance without an understanding of what is being said.

My first experience with opera was Modest Mussorgsky's _Boris Godunov_, sitting down with the libretto while following along with the story and being swept along by great music. After becoming familiar with it, a month later I attended I live performance of the opera and from that point I've been hooked. What amazed me from the start was the ability for music to describe the emotions of the drama more directly and profoundly than pure words in an oral drama ever could. The quintet in Wagner's _Die Meistersinger_, for example, is expressed in words and music which give the audience an unforgettable impression of the kind of harmony which in real life is wordless and soundless.

So yes, an understanding of the dramatic setting is vitally important, so either reading along with the libretto or seeing it while following along with subtitles is something that you should probably be prepared to do if you want to get the full force of the experience. Now myself, personally, I took right to that. I find the plots of the best operas to be fascinating. And the best -- particularly those by Mozart and Wagner -- have a genius for understanding the deepest, innermost workings of the human psyche. I definitely take umbrage with David58117's description of Wagner's characters as juvenile, and I think his skill as a dramatist was pretty amazing. But if you're not hooked by the drama in the same way I was, it may not be a medium for you.

As sospiro said, after you become more familiar with the operas and their stories, you quickly grow to love the music and can often listen to it outside the context of the drama, although it always sound best in that context in my experience. And as far as problems with getting into the singing, again, it's mannerisms begin to make sense after you become better acquainted with the operatic experience as a whole.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I think Poppin'fresh has put it very well and it pretty much reflects my views and feelings about opera.

But I'm not 100% in agreement with this:



Poppin' Fresh said:


> I definitely take umbrage with David58117's description of Wagner's characters as juvenile, and I think his skill as a dramatist was pretty amazing. But if you're not hooked by the drama in the same way I was, it may not be a medium for you.


The problem, for me, is Siegfried (the character). He almost spoils the Ring for me because he is such a juvenile creep:

Disrespects his stepfather even before he knows that the guy is planning to kill him.
Beats Wotan up for no good reason.
Cheerfully goes off and procures an unwilling woman for his buddy.

I ask, what is so heroic about that? (OK, I get that he kills a really mean dragon).

For me the only good Siegfried is a dead Siegfried (the music always makes me cry, despite my feelings about the character)

I'm half in jest, but really, I need someone to explain to me why I am supposed to believe in Siegfried as the hero.


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> The problem, for me, is Siegfried (the character). He almost spoils the Ring for me because he is such a juvenile creep:
> 
> Disrespects his stepfather even before he knows that the guy is planning to kill him.
> Beats Wotan up for no good reason.
> ...


I thought I was the only one!!

He's too immature, all brawn with no brains, rude, arrogant, easily manipulated, and has fortune handed to him rather than earned - that doesn't make for a very likable character.

It might sound harsh, but...I physically became sick reading other characters talk highly of him. I couldn't even enjoy the Death scene because of all the mourning that occurred over him.

I'm also curious why we're suppose to believe in Siegfried The Hero.

Can't wait to get back to Puccini and Mozart.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Argus said:


> If you don't like something then don't listen to it.


Agreed. No need to force yourself to like opera. But I also agree with Jeremy:



Jeremy Marchant said:


> I suggest listening to operas by composers whose non-operatic music you already like. I'm not a fan of opera as a form of music but I enjoy those by Janacek, Tippett, Berlioz and a few others.


I like C20th music, so generally I'm interested in listening to C20th operas in full. If it's C19th, I generally listen to the highlights.

Another good idea if you don't like opera is to listen to the choruses (eg. by Verdi) or suites from operas (eg. Peter Breiner has arranged & conducted all of the Janacek operas as suites for Naxos). Things like this may be stepping stones to listening to operas in full.

& I agree with some of those above who say that the best appreciation of opera is to be garnered by seeing it live. I haven't seen opera live, but I generally think that any music is best seen live, "canned" music is only 10% of the actual "real" experience (& even that percentage might be generous)...


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree it's best to see it live but in my opinion, knowing the music & the story increases your enjoyment a million times.


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## Poppin' Fresh (Oct 24, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> But I'm not 100% in agreement with this:
> 
> The problem, for me, is Siegfried (the character). He almost spoils the Ring for me because he is such a juvenile creep:
> 
> ...


Ah, well my comment was addressing the idea that Wagner's characters are juvenile _in general_, which is what I took umbrage with.

As for Siegfried, I think his actions and motivations make more sense if you understand his role in Wagner's great artistic diagnosis of the loveless, power-ridden, political world in which we live. I view him as a "hero" more in the classical mythological sense. Heh, now, there have been entire books dedicated to explaining the allegory and symbolism of _The Ring_, so I'm not going to be able to explain it very comprehensively here. But basically _Siegfried_ the opera is an idealistic prophecy of a possible future in which man's aggressive power-lust will gradually give way. Siegfried the character is Wagner's projection of 'natural man', inspired entirely by his instinctive need for mutual love and fellowship. Siegfried's first action, after leaving Brunnhilde and meeting Gunther, is to give friendship and service, which eventually leads to his downfall for loving humanity too indiscriminately.

To your points:

*Siegfried's stepfather is a whining, scheming, greedy little dwarf who has stunted his growth and refused to reveal the identity of his mother and father. The fact that he has to turn to the creatures of the forest to find any sort of fulfilling companionship should tell you something about Mime's character.

*He smashes Wotan's spear because Wotan is blocking his path to Brunnhilde, and Wotan comes out and states "this spear is the one that smashed your daddy's sword, causing him to be killed."

*Well yeah, after Siegfried drinks the potion causing him to forget Brunnhilde, he is manipulated into procuring her for Gunther out of his "love" for Gutrune. I see him as more sinned against than sinning here, and in the end definitely view his death as a wrongful one.

However, while Wagner first created his story with Siegfried the revolutionary hero or man of the future in mind, he eventually came to interpret it differently himself. In the end product, Brunnhilde and Wotan are the true heroes of the saga.

Siegfried is infused with a touch of juvenilia in his first opera, but I think this is largely because of the fairy tale essence of _Siegfried_. The opera traces his progress from boyhood to manhood, so of course he is going to be portrayed as immature. Emotionally he is still a child, and the dwarf is a fairy tale symbol of arrested development. It is only when Siegfried learns something of his true mother and father that he is able to forge the sword and begin his journey out of childhood.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Disrespects his stepfather even before he knows that the guy is planning to kill him.


He knows with his intuition that this creature is vile and he loathes him because he is noble and noble creatures despise all that is endowed with low and sordid nature.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Aramis said:


> He knows with his intuition that this creature is vile and he loathes him because he is noble and noble creatures despise all that is endowed with low and sordid nature.


In real life I have a great suspicion of this kind of attitude. We all know where it leads to.

And I still think Siegfried is not noble. Where is his nobility? What noble act does he perform? Going out of his way to slaughter a sleeping dragon? You can explain the Mime-hatred and Wotan bashing away, but Siegfried the procurer, capturing a defenseless woman to deliver her into sexual slavery to his mate, (incidentally after mugging her for her jewellery), is as base, in my view, as any Mime. The potion caused him to forget Brunnhilde, but was it designed to rob him of moral sense?

But thank you Poppin' Fresh for explaining his role in Wagner's grand design. These aspects you discussed have been highlighted in some of the Ring DVDs I have: eg the Copenhagen Ring presents Siegfried as a moody adolescent stomping round his bedroom, obviously at odds with his stepfather's tiny suburban cottage; and the Valencia Siegfried is Natural Man dressed in furs and sporting dreadlocks, in stark contrast to the gods on their mechanical cranes.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> And I still think Siegfried is not noble. Where is his nobility? What noble act does he perform? Going out of his way to slaughter a sleeping dragon? You can explain the Mime-hatred and Wotan bashing away, but Siegfried the procurer, capturing a defenseless woman to deliver her into sexual slavery to his mate, (incidentally after mugging her for her jewellery), is as base, in my view, as any Mime. The potion caused him to forget Brunnhilde, but was it designed to rob him of moral sense?


His nobility is manifested in his lack of fear and stuff. As for the deed that you can't forgive him - Siegfried didn't live in times of so called "human rights" and women fighting for equal right for both genders. In ancient times women were "won" and "captured" by men and it was not considered unmoral deed.


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## Poppin' Fresh (Oct 24, 2009)

Well, I agree with mamascarlatti in a couple of respects. I myself don't find Siegfried to be the most likable or sympathetic character, and his seizure of Brunnhilde _is_ an incredibly heinous act. This was something that Wagner was obviously conscious of; the music, the screams from Brunnhilde are painful stuff. This is the point when Siegfried's heroic potential, his ability to be the agent of change, is really called into question.

But I don't see this as a detriment to the saga, and it doesn't hinder my appreciation of it like it does for others. None of the characters, even the more sympathetic ones, are completely guiltless. Certainly not Wotan, and Brunnhilde herself turns around and plots the death of Siegfried. What we have here is simply great drama. Siegfried the naive, impulsive human uncorrupted by society who could care less about the power of the ring defeats representatives of the old, depraved order (and in this sense a hero, or a person possessing great strength and ability performing brave deeds). Love triumphs as he and Brunnhilde are now free from the rule of the old order. And yet that optimism soon falls into tragedy as they are caught up and manipulated by people living under the influence of that old order, and Siegfried falls victim to the same mistakes Wotan, Alberich, Fafner, and the others made: he betrays love and subdues Brunnhilde by force, trusts in his strength completely and does not fear the ring's curse. In the end he and Brunnhilde have to perish along with the gods before humanity can truly be set free.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Poppin' Fresh said:


> But I don't see this as a detriment to the saga, and it doesn't hinder my appreciation of it like it does for others.


I still love the Ring and find I can enjoy it as long as I don't let my modern sensibilities get in the way of it too much. And for me the hero is Brunnhilde, probably another reason why I like the Copenhagen version so much.


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## 151 (Jun 14, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Opera by its nature is music theatre and has never been designed to be just listened to.


I agree and disagree.

I think recorded music on the whole is strange in that it can be played anywhere outside of its nature. Think about club music of today, it isn't released solely for the purpose of being played by establishments, it can find itself anywhere.

I'm trying to listen to Michael Torke's opera Strawberry Fields and I wish they did instrumental versions.

The male voices are especially annoying, despite being in English and lyrically engaging, the vibrato is just obtuse and the voices seem to be too focused on the trachea. I appreciate the mechanism and vocal range but they rarely seem to have any real character in their voice and separate voices tend to sound alike.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

151 said:


> I think recorded music on the whole is strange in that it can be played anywhere outside of its nature. Think about club music of today, it isn't released solely for the purpose of being played by establishments, it can find itself anywhere.


Funnily enough I've just watched an interesting TED talk by David Byrne on the connection between venue and music and the way the venue inspires creativity.

But I stand by my original statement - opera is music theatre and is meant to be listened to and watched. The music has a purpose beyond simply being heard, it has a dramatic function as well, and ideally singers should convey plot/emotions/intentions with their faces and bodies as well as their voices.


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## Keikobad (Jul 9, 2010)

_I'm also curious why we're suppose to believe in Siegfried The Hero. 
_

Well, the answer to that is that we, each of us individually, takes our operas as we find 'em. As it happens, Siegfried is a very flawed hero, and I think Wagner was fully aware of that when he penned the libretti.

Siegfried is more of a vehicle, if you will. As is Brünnhilde. But, through the course of three operas, she grows immeasurably. Siegfried remains, in my humble opinion, rather stunted and simple (the Act I love potion, notwithstanding) throughout.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

mamascarlatti said:


> I still love the Ring and find I can enjoy it as long as I don't let my modern sensibilities get in the way of it too much. And for me the hero is Brünnhilde...


I'm sure it was Jane Eaglen who told somebody or other (think it was Thomas May) that if Wotan had made the 'clean-break' with Brünnhilde [rather than remain involved- presumably by imposing punishments, etc.], then Brünnhilde could have performed the role of the needed 'free-agent,' but Wotan was too blind to consider the possibility.

Don't know if I buy 100% of that sale- but it's really interesting, isn't it?!

As for the various comments about Siegfried (with all his flaws and ingloriousness)- the issue HAS come up previously. Rather than repeating myself, or pasting text, I thought I'd simply link to my musings.

Have a look HERE.

Also take a gander HERE.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

That's an interesting take Chi_townPhilly. I can kind of buy the Mime defense, and it can't help Siegfried that he was bought up by someone with no moral sense himself.

But the abduction of Brunnhilde, no it's really rape by proxy. OK Hunding did it, but he is not exactly a moral beacon. Siegfried's dad knew that kind of behaviour was wrong (and he didn't have a secure childhood), which means you can't use the "It was acceptable in those days" defense. (I'd be interested in what contemporary Victorian commentators thought of Siegfried's behaviour in this respect).

None of this would matter so much if Siegfried wasn't being continuously posited as the noble hero.


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## Gneiss (Feb 3, 2009)

Whistlerguy said:


> Third, I find some very high pitched voices in opera a bit irritant and abrasive. I will say the heresy - I even find them even a bit artificial, unnatural. The same thing rarely happens with other vocal works, but in opera I find it is quite common.


For me those are the highlights... To me musically there is nothing more beautiful than the soprano voice. My mind tends to wander whilst the bass is droning his way though some long laborious tale.

I believe traditionally people used to go and get a drink during the "boring bits" and come out humming the "best tunes". I quite like that idea


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

First, it is not only music, it has the story and dramatic elements. So, in order to understand opera fully I must know what it is about. To do this I have to either understand the text (which is usually in Italian, and even though I know a bit of Italian it is not enough to understand text which is usually full of archaic words) or read the plot in advance. But if I read the plot it is as if I watched the film for the second time - a bit boring.

*Try opera on DVD, you can usually pick the language you want for the subtitles, then you can follow the plot without reading a synopsis*

Second, operas are usually very long in duration which is a bit of problem in itself. If I enjoyed the plot it wouldn't be very big problem.
One idea that I still have to try is to get libretto together with translation and read it while listening to opera. I think this might help me, but I'm not sure.

*Not necessarily true. There are plenty of excellent operas that are very short, some even just 45 minutes. A few examples: L'Enfant et les Sortilèges, L'Heure Espagnole, Le Rossignol, Gianni Schicchi, Cavalleria Rusticana, Pagliacci. Most operas while not as short, have a running time between 2 and 2 and a half hours, not too longer than most movies. Of course, there are some that are monstruously long, like The Ring of the Nibelung, Les Troyens, Parsifal, Don Carlo, and most that embrace the subgenre of Grand Opéra, but they are actually more the exception than the rule. *

Third, I find some very high pitched voices in opera a bit irritant and abrasive. I will say the heresy - I even find them even a bit artificial, unnatural. The same thing rarely happens with other vocal works, but in opera I find it is quite common.

*This is often an acquired taste, but you may want to start by some lighter works that don't have a lot of high notes, like, for example, Die Fledermaus (actually an operetta)*


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## Keikobad (Jul 9, 2010)

*Suspension of Disbelief*

In all my years of listening to a wide variety of operas, I never once based my decisions to do so on the number of high (or low) notes found therein. As for finding high pitched voices irritating and abrasive....perhaps that has more to do with the specific high pitched voice in question. Every artist has their own unique vocal qualities, and not all will necessarily be to one's particular taste.

If artificiality is to be eschewed, perhaps, then opera isn't for you; for what is more artificial than spontaneously breaking into long stretches of song in a very specific and, quite possibly, foreign language? With plots generally filled with inconsistencies, abrupt dénouements, and frequent use (in Baroque opera at any rate) of deus-ex-machina interventions, it shouldn't be surprising that we're talking about a very artificial, man-made art form. Not surprising.

Those I've known (including myself) who have fallen in love with the art form do so because they embrace and overlook the inconsistencies. Sure, there are some operas whose composers and librettists paid more than casual attentions to time-lines, and details are credible...........but opera isn't about the credible, and if you believe this to be the case you will be perpetually disappointed.

My seven cents.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

Keikobad said:


> If artificiality is to be eschewed, perhaps, then opera isn't for you; for what is more artificial than spontaneously breaking into long stretches of song in a very specific and, quite possibly, foreign language? With plots generally filled with inconsistencies, abrupt dénouements, and frequent use (in Baroque opera at any rate) of deus-ex-machina interventions, it shouldn't be surprising that we're talking about a very artificial, man-made art form. Not surprising.
> 
> Those I've known (including myself) who have fallen in love with the art form do so because they embrace and overlook the inconsistencies. Sure, there are some operas whose composers and librettists paid more than casual attentions to time-lines, and details are credible...........but opera isn't about the credible, and if you believe this to be the case you will be perpetually disappointed.
> 
> My seven cents.


I completely agree.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Keikobad said:


> Sure, there are some operas whose composers and librettists paid more than casual attentions to time-lines, and details are credible...........but opera isn't about the credible, and if you believe this to be the case you will be perpetually disappointed.
> 
> My seven cents.


Absolutely. Opera is first and foremost music. And it has its own conventions. Instead of looking at some things with an outraged, righteous eye, I look at them with amused tenderness. For example, opera characters usually sing their best after they're stabbed or poisoned.:lol: And they fall deeply in love after seeing someone for the briefest of moments. This is not about realism, it's rather about dramatic intensity and sublime music.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Funnnily enough my sense of reality has been changed by the amount of opera watching I do. When I turn off a dvd and i get flicked to the TV, showing the latest forensic crime or hospital melodrama or reality show, it all seems infinitely more contrived than anything I've been watching!


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## Keikobad (Jul 9, 2010)

*Take it slow. Chacun à son goût.*

There are some works which, try as one might, may never resonate with one's sensibilities. Personally, I have tried and tried and tried to come to terms with Schoenberg's "Moses und Aron", for years.......no, DECADES; but to no avail. Arnold Schoenberg's journey into 12-tone Serialism is simply one I shall never take; but that's alright. I made it as far as Berg's "Lulu", and I think that's pretty commendable (knowing myself as I do).

This establishment of a clear cut boundary, a perimeter between Yea and Nay, many would argue is not a good idea. But, I'm old and fairly set in my tastes. I surely wouldn't recommend such defeatist behavior to someone new to the art form. Listen, explore. If you don't like something that's fine; just don't slam the door and lock it. One never knows. A different time and place, it's hard to say how one might feel.

When I remember listening to Mahler and Bruckner as a child, and walking away from BOTH I'm just very happy to have re-investigated them further on in my life. Life without Mahler, now, is unthinkable and impossible.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Keikobad said:


> This establishment of a clear cut boundary, a perimeter between Yea and Nay, many would argue is not a good idea. But, I'm old and fairly set in my tastes. I surely wouldn't recommend such defeatist behavior to someone new to the art form. Listen, explore. If you don't like something that's fine; just don't slam the door and lock it. One never knows. A different time and place, it's hard to say how one might feel.


Exactly. I'd say one word: Wagner. About a year ago I was ready to donate my CD of Tristan and Isolde to the library. Impossible to get to like.

Now I have on DVD three Rings, 3 Lohengrins, 2 Tristans, a Tannhauser, a Flying Dutchman and still counting..


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Everyone with an open mind can learn to appreciate opera in my view. Not all opera maybe, but there's so much diversity in the genre that there's bound to be something for everybody. And once you re sold on it you can't live without it anymore.


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## Keikobad (Jul 9, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Now I have on DVD three Rings, 3 Lohengrins, 2 Tristans, a Tannhauser, a Flying Dutchman and still counting..


Which admission raises another interesting question:

Why this relentless searching for the perfect recording? I ask even though I, myself, have been a part of it for years. We all know that it's a thankless and unyielding search; yet we embark on it anyway.

Every so often, it's instructive to visit one's music library and ask yourself when was the last time you listened to that recording of Charles Villiers Stanford's _Requiem_ or, closer to home, the premiere recording of Thomas Adès' scandalous opera "Powder Her Face"? If it's been over a year, perhaps there's a message in it.

Somehow, I was able to convince a friend unfamiliar with the Adès work that it was right up his alley and, within 24 hours, I had the two disc set packaged up and on its way to its new home.

I am, it turns out, a sucker for Tristan, Elektra and Walküre. One can't ever own too many copies of those.

Regards,

K


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't look for the perfect recording. Rare is the recording that has no flaws. We need to enjoy the good parts and overlook the flaws if possible.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm going to try to stay out of the "multiple recordings" realm if possible. I purchase so much music anyway, I would spend an OBSCENE amount of money if I started up with this.

EXCEPT I like La Traviata and Suor Angelica enough to consider trying to get really nice upgraded recordings at some point.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I think opera DVDs are different because there is more to it than just the music - obviously. Each production of the Ring I have concentrates on a different facet - the Chereau the economic/industrial implications, the Copenhagen the family aspect, and the Valencia the social divisions and tensions. I will re-watch all of these as I get more familiar with the work.

On the other hand I only have one Cosi fan Tutte and not much would persuade me to get another as I think it says all it needs to.

As for recordings, it would be the chance to hear a different singer whose voice I love that would influence me to duplicate.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

as a response to the initial post - 

Internet is a great tool when it comes to opera. I mostly use Wikipedia because it usually includes synopsis, the work put into context with the composer's career & environment, and links - sometimes to libretti or other resources. Also, most CDs and DVDs include full synopsis in several languages (most of the time full libretto in several languages in the case of CDs). 

I would recommend watching a DVD of the opera before the CD actually, because seeing what is going on makes it easier to remember it later when you're just listening - it helps to have some visual clues to go by. I have to use that method or I tend to get lost in the recitatives...


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

*I am strong advocate of using DVD and blu ray to learn and appreciate opera.......*

As said previously opera was never meant to be only listened to, music exists to support visual story being told. By using DVD with subtitles you will quickly learn the scences and dialog that music and songs are meant to support, this will form mental images that you can later call up anytime when listening to CD versions.......they will actually now make sense as a story

*Why does opera use strange irritating singing style.......*

Opera singing is meant to be artistic vocal expression and not literal singing, the extreme technique creates mood and conveys strong emotion feeling as much as the words themself (you can never understand the words anyway) Think of an elaborate baroque chair that is very beautiful, it does not need all those fancy scolls and gold leaf finish to function as a chair, they are there to be a beautiful expression of art that pleases us visually as well as function as a chair......that is opera 

After you grasp the concept of opera singing as artistic expression then you can really start to enjoy the great singers and thier individual style of singing


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> *I am strong advocate of using DVD and blu ray to learn and appreciate opera.......*
> 
> As said previously opera was never meant to be only listened to, music exists to support visual story being told. By using DVD with subtitles you will quickly learn the scences and dialog that music and songs are meant to support, this will form mental images that you can later call up anytime when listening to CD versions.......they will actually now make sense as a story


I entirely agree with you, except in one case - when you happen to see a very bad production with silly staging directors ideas... In that case, it's almost better to just listen to the opera with the libretto and use your imagination to provide the scenery.

But my preferred method to approach an opera that is new to me is to watch a good production first - either live, or in movie theaters, or DVD or blu-ra; then later listen to it on CD. Not always possible, though, since there is much more offer on CD than on DVD/blu-ray.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The reason Siegfried slays the dragon(a transformed Fafner the giant) is to get the Ring and the treasure,which he has been put up to do by Mime. And the dragon isn't actually sleeping while he does this.He wakes it up with his famous horn call. And he's not being cruel and slaying an innocent dragon for fun. 
The dragon is extremely dangerous and only Siegfried has the power to slay it; any one else would be immediately eaten. And its saliva alone can corrode flesh.


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