# Classical music in 2014 - why the industry needs to change



## Guest (Jan 7, 2015)

Another article from The Guardian - _Classical music in 2014 - still dominated by dead white men's music performed by living white men_: 
http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...cal-music-2014-still-male-dominated-bachtrack


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

TalkingHead said:


> Another article from The Guardian - _Classical music in 2014 - still dominated by dead white men's music performed by living white men_:
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...cal-music-2014-still-male-dominated-bachtrack


All well and good, until a few of the basic social realities are touched upon. Those minority racial groups will collectively have to transform over time to a group where the general stat within their communities has the largest percentile of that population as solidly middle-class, and valuing higher education other than as a mere lever to any of the more practical professions which offer jobs with decent salaries which are thought readily available in the job markets, i.e. not only those careers thought to be sure as to regular income. That large shift must take place before any of those within those socio-demographic groups will have enough of a thought to encourage one of their children to study the violin, music, music composition, conducting -- while still knowing full well the odds of finding steady and lucrative employment in those areas. Currently, these careers in any of the arts will stay at the very bottom of a list of desirables re: the hopes and wish lists of families within those cultural sectors, or better, those arts careers won't even be on the list of thought of possibility until there is a massive shift in their economy, general level of education, and less of a near single focus upon only those most pragmatic of avenues towards a career.

Until there is a shift in what is considered desirable as the goal of career and income, and that culture and its families are then inclined to urge and support their children toward pursuing these far riskier career paths, you get what you get... barely a one in the high risk volatile and uncertain arena of a career in the arts.

Women: I'll go way out on a limb here with the following generalization: Women are generally far more pragmatic about many matters than men, and that includes career choice. There is, fading while still very much in place, the factor that the aspiring female conservatory in training performer or composer will get married, ergo, what she earns, while still important, does not carry the bulk weight and responsibility which is usually assigned to or expected of the male to meet that couples' living expenses. There are many women who have done the full risk-career art / music / composer / conductor career entirely on their own, as well.

Philip Glass said, "talent can happen anywhere." And so it does, in the poorest generally least-educated ghetto of race or nationality or sub-class you can think to mention, and at times, that talent, and something so burning within the individual with the talent, is enough to propel that individual to that which consumes them, and pretty much 'no matter what.'

But to point out all these demographic imbalances without taking into account all those very real and in place social conditions and cultural dispositions, the article is a safe tip of the hat to the politically correct, without having any real force or affect, a puff piece of hollow rhetoric and hot air.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Typical whingeing Guardian agitprop if you ask me - barking that things 'need(s) to change' but typically not offering any suggestions as to what can be done about it. To quote James Brown - Talkin' Loud And Sayin' Nothing.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Its an odd thing - once a disc is in my CD player, I can't tell the gender, race, religious or political beliefs, sexual orientation, disability status, ethnicity, age or physical appearance of the conductor, composer, orchestral player etc etc etc

My ears are very discriminating - if it sounds good, it gets played.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Well, in any discussion of the concept of white male privilege, the views of white males are always most welcome. 

Obviously classical music as a whole is dominated by dead white males; for it to be otherwise you'd have to change both (a) what constitutes popular classical music and (b) history. 
So I'm surprised Service didn't focus on the more relevant statistic of contemporary composers: 19 of the top 20 are men (Sofia Gubaidulina's the exception). Also, it's worth noting that of the 5 top female composers, 4 are still alive - not so for the men, as you'd expect.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> Typical whingeing Guardian agitprop if you ask me - barking that things 'need(s) to change' but typically not offering any suggestions as to what can be done about it. To quote James Brown - Talkin' Loud And Sayin' Nothing.


Why do the Americans do it better? See this from the NY Times or this from the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra.


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## BillT (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm far more worried about whether classical music will even by played *at all* in 50 or 100 years, than whether it will be played by white men, black women, or whatever.

When I went to secondary school in the 60's, probably about a third of the students took up an instrument in our regular middle-class area. At the school at which I was a teacher up until June, maybe 1 or 2 in 35 kids per class played an instrument other than guitar. 

Is it possible that this wonderful art form will die? I shudder when I think of it. But I know it's possible. 

- Bill


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

"Classical music" will not die, I'm pretty sure of that. 
There will continue to be great music, I'm pretty sure of that.
We will, eventually, break free of the culture of self-importance
and embrace one another as equals, instead of merely pretending to,
I'm pretty sure of that, too.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> Well, in any discussion of the concept of white male privilege, the views of white males are always most welcome.
> 
> Obviously classical music as a whole is dominated by dead white males; for it to be otherwise you'd have to change both (a) what constitutes popular classical music and (b) history.
> So I'm surprised Service didn't focus on the more relevant statistic of contemporary composers: 19 of the top 20 are men (Sofia Gubaidulina's the exception). Also, it's worth noting that of the 5 top female composers, 4 are still alive - not so for the men, as you'd expect.


A few alternate stats in lieu of what was presented, if still the nearly gratuitous puff-piece it is remains unchanged in content, does -- exactly nothing


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Taggart said:


> Why do the Americans do it better? See this from the NY Times or this from the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra.


Money does not talk, it screams. Salaries for the lowest chair player and on up are substantially greater in the U.S. major ensembles than abroad, even compared to those top-level west European orchestras. Ditto for the price paid composers for works commissioned by those orchestras.

Incentive, and all that.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Classical music will thrive in fact... with iTunes and streaming music I suspect more people are listening to classical music than ever before.

Pop musicians should be jealous honestly. Classical folks are pretty hardcore in their devotion to the medium.


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