# Adagio for violin and piano



## Chordalrock

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https://soundcloud.com/chordalrock%2Fadagio-for-violin-and-piano

This is probably the most modern of my pieces.

I'm mainly looking for reactions to this piece, as it sounds rather unique to me.

This is an "old" piece so the techical advice I received in the other thread doesn't have to be repeated -- if it even applies here.


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## Matsps

Would you be willing to share the score of this?


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## Chordalrock

Sure. Here it is:

View attachment 33982


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## pluhagr

I rather like some things in this. You have some great material here. But I think that there are a few cases where I'm not fully convinced some of the more atonal writing doesn't fit in with the rest of the work. To me it sounds a bit more like a draft than a finished piece. It's interestingly modal and dissonant at the same time.


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## Chordalrock

Good comment! Finally someone who agrees I have at least interesting material in this piece even if my skills as a composer are inadequate to do full justice to it.

I don't think of it as a draft, but here's what I think I could do to improve it: add some development to the last section, add a coda, and ... that's pretty much it. Do you have some other ideas?


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## Matsps

Chordalrock said:


> Good comment! Finally someone who agrees I have at least interesting material in this piece even if my skills as a composer are inadequate to do full justice to it.
> 
> I don't think of it as a draft, but here's what I think I could do to improve it: add some development to the last section, add a coda, and ... that's pretty much it. Do you have some other ideas?


I agree with the above comment by pluhagr. When I have time to get on my piano (it's room seems to be perpetually occupied this weekend  ) I'm going to have a play through the score and be able to better comment about the piece.


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## SergeOfArniVillage

I agree, at this point, it's more of a draft than a finished composition at this point. Even live performers of the piano and violin would find it difficult to make this musical.

The first thing that stuck out to me was the first F# the violin plays as melody -- in this case, it feels like a forced dissonance. (Which is funny, because Amin6 is a perfectly normal chord.) The harmonic A Minor to B Minor works in the piano, but as melody, it comes across as obligatory, "I will add this note to be different." I think it would feel more natural if you didn't choose to outline Amin6/E as melody in bar 2, dropping back down to the C, but perhaps even allowed the F# in the violin to ascend to G, to create Amin7/E. That may take away some of the "forced" feeling, taking into account your melodic voice leading. 

(Something to consider, is try not to have too many unison accompaniment between the instruments; i.e., the piano treble is C, so the violin plays C, in the second measure. The 4th beat of measure 1 does the same thing as well, D and D.) 

The A minor/B minor is repeated as harmonic accompaniment again for several measures. I think being more adventurous with your harmonies would cause the piece to gain greater weight as a complete piece.

There are some worthwhile ideas in the piece; if you develop it further, good things could come from it.


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## Chordalrock

Thanks for listening and commenting!

Your comment about the static harmony in the beginning made me listen to it from a new perspective and perhaps you are right that I could improve it. It's meant to be austere, but listening to it more carefully it doesn't perhaps sound ideal.

Re unisons, I don't have a problem with them, but am aware that avoiding unison started to become increasingly desired during mid-Renaissance.

Re the leap from F# to C -- it is, I would say, the whole point of the first several bars. It's what gives the beginning its character. Someone else, an advanced composer, told me it and its juxtaposition with the minor third were the only interesting thing about my improvisation, which was the seed and most of the tree for this composition. You and I have to agree to disagree here. It's a mood I like and I can't get it without using the F# --> C progression.

I'd have loved to hear some reasons for your dislike of the rest of the piece, instead of just the very beginning. I mean something more than "not musical". I think your musical background is so different from mine (i.e. richer and better) that hearing your thoughts would be particularly interesting to me.


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## SergeOfArniVillage

Chordalrock said:


> Thanks for listening and commenting!
> 
> I'd have loved to hear some reasons for your dislike of the rest of the piece, instead of just the very beginning. I mean something more than "not musical". I think your musical background is so different from mine (i.e. richer and better) that hearing your thoughts would be particularly interesting to me.


Ok! I'll try to elaborate.

I think the biggest qualm I have, is that the melody lacks contour. It is rarely desirable for a duet of instruments to have long sections that are mainly harmonic in nature, instead of being a combination of melody and harmony.

If you wish to keep the F# to lower C motif from the beginning, ok, I can understand that, disagreements aside. But the section from 13-21, notice the violin's language. It is non-stop up and down motions that only kind of noodle around the implied chords, rather than "speaking its mind". If you take some of your favorite melodies, from any work ranging from hundreds of years ago to recent pop songs, you'll find they don't typically resemble non-stop lines that outline chords, and they don't constantly jump octaves or sixths at odd intervals.

In other words, when it comes to melody, don't think "complicated continuous motion without pausing for breath", but rather, "simple, direct speech, with appropriate pauses/cadences to carve out the line of my train of thought".

Here's an excellent example to consider:






Take a look at just the opening measures of Rachmaninoff's Vocalise, of which the melody can be either sung or played with an accompanying instrument. (This is a piano transcription of piano and violin. The melody is the 'violin's' part.) Notice how "tight" the melody is.

(And again, notice that the melody of the violin is typically not followed by a unison in the highest note of the accompaniment. It's the same in the violin-piano duet. There's a reason for this; it has a richer sound when this is avoided. Here it is so you can see:

http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/d/d3/IMSLP25240-PMLP56675-Rachmaninov_-_Vocalise.pdf )

The melody has meaning, it has something to say. It has "contour"!

This is the best I can explain it, I hope it helps you to understand where I'm coming from.


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## Chordalrock

Thanks! It does help, although it also makes me a bit confused. Stepping and skipping up and down continously without breathing happens a lot in Baroque music, and I'd say my bars 13-21 are not so much melody as like a slower and more modern version of this kind of stuff:






I'm left unsure whether the problem is my music or possibly somewhat misplaced expectations. Maybe a faster tempo would have made that passage more agreeable?


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## SergeOfArniVillage

Your confusion is understandable! Baroque writing is very different from Classical/Romantic writing, as I'm sure you're aware.

With Baroque, notice the continuous line of thought: this is not "cantabile", as most Romantic pieces are. Baroque features trains of thought that are more existential, not trying to portray a sort of song, but the actual tapestry of the music itself. Notice his careful attention here to harmonic detail, so that even his lone voice clearly has an implied chord to give it strength. ( These leaps are clearly justified, and notice that the sudden "leaps" are often followed by a sleek legato scale ^_^ ) He certainly didn't do that by staying in the triads of chords. D minor's triad is D-F-A in root position; his melodic train of thought doesn't stick with only these notes, and the diatonic D Minor scale.

Your piece reads more like a Romantic piece, with a "cantabile" melody and harmonic accompaniment. A Baroque style of melody doesn't fit; it's like if Chopin added a Baroque melody to his famous Eb Major Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2. It wouldn't make sense. Especially so, since your piano part often has open 5ths in it or questionable chord inversions that don't strengthen the piece harmonically, which is a big no-no in Baroque music.

I think it's great you're willing to experiment and try new things in order to improve in these ways, it will pay off.


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## Chordalrock

Thanks for elaborating! I very much appreciate your comments. I need some tough love to motivate me to get over my goofy juvenilia and put some serious effort into improving, which I obviously need.


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## ScipioAfricanus

this would probably sound richer on the clarinet.


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## Chordalrock

The clarinet is probably the only woodwind type instrument I don't like, lol.


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