# Having Some Trouble Deciding On Chopin Piano Concerto Recording



## Mirror Image

I'm having trouble deciding on which Chopin Piano Concertos recording to get. It seem the the latest Krystian Zimerman/Polish Festival Orchestra recording has got the most positive feedback. What do you guys think? I know the Chopin Piano Concertos are some concert workhorses, but I don't even own one recording of them at all.

Thanks to all who can help. As you all know, I normally don't have any problem picking out a recording, but this one has left me perplexed.


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## Air

Argerich is the one I prefer, though some don't like it. Zimmerman is good too.


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## Mirror Image

airad2 said:


> Argerich is the one I prefer, though some don't like it. Zimmerman is good too.


Which ones? She's recorded two sets of Chopin's Piano Concertos. One on Deutsche Grammophon (Abbado is conducting one recording I forget who conducted the other one) and the other is on EMI with Dutoit/MSO.


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## Air

I haven't heard the EMI, but you can't go wrong with Argerich on these concerti. So if you want both, grab the EMI because it's more convenient. Ignore the lame hater reviews.

Personally, I am not very qualified because I only have the DG one of the first concerto coupled with the Liszt. It is among my favorite of recordings.

I've also been eyeing the Martha Argerich Collection on DG. It is quite expensive but includes all her signatures (though I have many of them already).


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## Mirror Image

Well I'm a fan of Argerich anyway. She excels pretty much in everything she does, so I'm sure they're good performances.


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## Kuntster

I think somehow Rubinstein really captures the imperfection of Chopin. He makes the melodies sound so human like.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

You can't get just one set of the concertos. Argerich, Askenase, Mewton-Wood, Pogorelich, Arrau, Rubinstein, Hoffman, Freire, Blechacz, Bolet, Gilels.... even that old Lev Oborin recording of the second concerto... all of them are fantastic.


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## Mirror Image

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> You can't get just one set of the concertos. Argerich, Askenase, Mewton-Wood, Pogorelich, Arrau, Rubinstein, Hoffman, Freire, Blechacz, Bolet, Gilels.... even that old Lev Oborin recording of the second concerto... all of them are fantastic.


I seriously doubt all of them are fantastic. Some of them had to be plagued with mediocre conducting. Sometimes I find the pianist and conductor to be out-of-sync and it really ruins the whole performance for me.

I'm definitely looking at the Zimerman and Argerich sets. Rubinstein I heard was really good too. Thanks for your recommendations everyone.


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## bdelykleon

I don't know if you would like Chopin's piano concertos. They are among the greatest in piano literature, but the orchestral writing is less than brilliant.


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> I don't know if you would like Chopin's piano concertos. They are among the greatest in piano literature, but the orchestral writing is less than brilliant.


Well I heard the orchestration isn't that good, but the same could be said of Liszt's orchestral writing as well, but I like Liszt a lot.

Just because I'm a "Ravelian" doesn't mean that I don't enjoy music that doesn't have as good orchestration.


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## bdelykleon

Mirror Image said:


> Well I heard the orchestration isn't that good, but the same could be said of Liszt's orchestral writing as well, but I like Liszt a lot.
> 
> Just because I'm a "Ravelian" doesn't mean that I don't enjoy music that doesn't have as good orchestration.


It is not only Chopin's lousy orchestration, but that the concerto is mainly a beautiful solo piano piece with orchestral intermezzi, like the concertos before Mozart.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Mirror Image said:


> I seriously doubt all of them are fantastic. Some of them had to be plagued with mediocre conducting.


That's nothing but prejudice. I'll take that you know nothing about the pianists I listed or the orchestras accompanying them, and that you are not an informed source.


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## laurens

You may find some purpose for weak orchestration.
Maybe the orchestration is a bit less on purpose to create contrast and have the piano exalt.
A good example of this is the violin concerts of Paganini. Extreme simple orchestration in sharp contrast with the over complex violin parts. I love listening to it. I feel that the orchestration is there to fill up the empty spaces. Same with Chopin. Love to listen to the piano parts that takes up some brain processing time. Then have the mind do some freewheeling in the orchestrated pauses when the piano is at a brief rest. 
Maybe the simple orchestration (should not call it lousy) is even the key to the success of Chopin and Paganini. While their success is the fact that they still play the pieces on a very regular basis. The doom of a composer is to be forgotten.
I like Rubinstein perform Chopin to stick on the topic.


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## Mirror Image

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> That's nothing but prejudice. I'll take that you know nothing about the pianists I listed or the orchestras accompanying them, and that you are not an informed source.


There's no way all of them are 100% great, sorry but I seriously doubt it. I'm just being realistic here and telling you that you are wrong, which you are.


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## tahnak

*Chopin Piano Concertos*



Kuntster said:


> I think somehow Rubinstein really captures the imperfection of Chopin. He makes the melodies sound so human like.


I would not say 'imperfection' but the spirit of Chopin is indeed captured definitively by Artur Rubinstein and a close second by Alexis Weissenberg.


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## Ispin

For sure you have made up your mind. Thereof I am not going to give you any piece of advice, although additionally I could mention pseudo-Lippati's performance (as a matter of fact it is Halina Czerny-Stefanska's old recording). What I'd like to do instead is to comment on your post concerning Chopin's concertos orchestration. Once I've bought a LP with Tausig's improved versions of the concertos (of course what is improved is the orchestration) and set to listen to it. Honestly, it was a horrible experience; the whole flavor of poetry so characteristic of Chopin's works vaporised. However it let me catch Marek Drewnowski's point of view. Drewnowski, whose interpretation of Scarlatti's sonatas appreciated Bernstein, insists that all those awful, long-lasting scores in Chopin's orchestra are to provide piano section with an air of light to float in.


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## Mirror Image

Ispin said:


> For sure you have made up your mind. Thereof I am not going to give you any piece of advice, although additionally I could mention pseudo-Lippati's performance (as a matter of fact it is Halina Czerny-Stefanska's old recording). What I'd like to do instead is to comment on your post concerning Chopin's concertos orchestration. Once I've bought a LP with Tausig's improved versions of the concertos (of course what is improved is the orchestration) and set to listen to it. Honestly, it was a horrible experience; the whole flavor of poetry so characteristic of Chopin's works vaporised. However it let me catch Marek Drewnowski's point of view. Drewnowski, whose interpretation of Scarlatti's sonatas appreciated Bernstein, insists that all those awful, long-lasting scores in Chopin's orchestra are to provide piano section with an air of light to float in.


Actually, I haven't even bought any Chopin concerto recording yet, so I'm still deciding. I'm not that interested anymore, there too many composers that I'm listening to right now that warrant my attention. Thanks for your help anyway.


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## Op.123

I like the Zimmerman and Lipatti


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## kv466




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## ternegf

*Argerich*



Air said:


> Argerich is the one I prefer, though some don't like it. Zimmerman is good too.


Which Argerich recording? I personally prefer the second one she did with Charles Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony Orchestra.


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## ternegf

*Martha Argerich DG Recordings*



Mirror Image said:


> Which ones? She's recorded two sets of Chopin's Piano Concertos. One on Deutsche Grammophon (Abbado is conducting one recording I forget who conducted the other one) and the other is on EMI with Dutoit/MSO.


Martha's recordings of the concertos with DG were: -

Piano Concerto No. 1 in E minor, Op. 11
London Symphony Orchestra,*Claudio Abbado
Piano Concerto No. 2 in F minor, Op. 21
National Symphony Orchestra Washington,*Mstislav Rostropovich

Both are available on the excellent Martha Argerich The Collection Volume 2.


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## Animal the Drummer

I prefer Zimerman's first recording of the concertos, with Giulini conducting the LA Philharmonic, to his second with the Polish Festival Orch. Criticism of Chopin's orchestral parts tends to be overdone in my view, but they still benefit from the deluxe treatment which Giulini and his players give them, and Zimerman of course is top notch. The overall interpretation of Zimerman's second set I find somewhat self-indulgent, with too many stops to "admire the view" along the way - they're performances I'd be happy to hear in concert but rather less happy to live with.


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## Fan66

I too am trying to decide. I already purchased the Zimmerman. Not a fan. Low volume recording, and, seems over the top...forcing too much..sentiment, etc.


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## 13hm13

Gotta say ... this one may be my favorite ... esp. for PC #2:






*Lang Lang (piano)

Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Zubin Mehta

Recorded 21 June 2008 in the Musikverien, Vienna*


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## Heliogabo

I didn't care about this concertos until I heard this recording. A good one.


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## Josquin13

These two concertos have been well served on records, & I agree that it's a tough choice picking among all the excellent performances. Here are the recordings that I've most enjoyed over the decades (listed in order of personal preference):

A. Piano Concerto No. 1:

1. Halina Czerny-Stefanska--Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Vaclav Smetacek conductor. As others have noted, this was for a time mistaken to be a recording by Dinu Lipatti. I actually prefer it to Lipatti's own recording. It is truly great piano playing, IMO:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ショパン-ピアノ協奏...halina+czerny+stefanska+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Conce...halina+czerny+stefanska+chopin+piano+concerto

2. Emil Gilels, with Philadelphia Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy conductor. While I'm more of a Gilels fan than an Ormandy fan, the playing here shows the great Russian pianist at his best, the orchestra plays well, & Ormandy doesn't get in the way:

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Piano...&sr=1-2&keywords=gilels+chopin+piano+concerto

3. Maurizo Pollini, Philharmonia Orchestra, Paul Kletzki conductor--This EMI recording was made by the young Pollini shortly after he won the 1st prize at the International Chopin Competition in Warsaw. It has been cited by some critics as Pollini's finest Chopin recording. & I would agree that the playing is more poetic than on some of Pollini's later Chopin recordings for DG:

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Conce...sr=1-4&keywords=pollini+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Concer...sr=1-3&keywords=pollini+chopin+piano+concerto

B. Piano Concerto No. 2:

1. Clara Haskil, Orchestre des Concerts Lamoureux, Igor Markevitch:

https://www.amazon.com/Clara-Haskil...1&keywords=clara+haskil+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Rondo...r&keywords=clara+haskil+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.co.jp/ショパン-ピアノ協奏...1&keywords=clara+haskil+chopin+piano+concerto

2. Ivo Pogorelich, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Claudio Abbado:

https://www.amazon.com/Virtuoso-Cho...keywords=ivo+pogorelich+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/Concerto-Kla...keywords=ivo+pogorelich+chopin+piano+concerto

C. Piano Concertos 1 & 2:

1. Tamas Vasary--Berlin Philharmonic, Janos Kulka, Jerzy Semkov conductors. In my view, this recording gets underrated. While Vasary isn't always a first choice for me in Chopin, when he's at his best, such as here in the 2 piano concertos, and his benchmark 4 Impromptus, Vasary is a remarkable Chopin player. Highly enjoyable music making.

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Pno-C...TF8&qid=1538151042&sr=1-1&keywords=B00004VEQ9




https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Piano...1&keywords=tamas+vasary+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/Vasary-Plays...538150004&sr=1-5&keywords=tamas+vasary+chopin

2. Samson François--Orchestre National de L'Opera de Monte-Carlo, Louis Fremaux conductor (another favorite Chopin player of mine):

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Piano...eywords=samson+francois+chopin+piano+concerto

3. Bella Davidovich--London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Neville Marriner conductor. Davidovich tends to get forgotten as a Chopin player, but she won the 1st prize in the 4th International Chopin Competition in Warsaw in 1949 (shared with Halina Czerny-Stefanska), and is a fine Chopin pianist. While Marriner probably isn't the most idiomatic conductor for this music, Davidovich's playing is well worth the bargain price. In addition, the Ambient Surround Sound (AMSI) remaster offers excellent sound quality:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Piano-Concertos-Nos-1-2/dp/B003SLKVIE

I don't know the recordings by Martha Argerich & Krystian Zimerman.

Historical: While it was unfortunately recorded late in Moriz Rosenthal's career, his playing of Chopin's 1st Piano Concerto is nevertheless essential listening. Rosenthal studied with Karol Mikuli--one of Chopin's favorite pupils and teaching assistant, and Franz Liszt. His piano touch is incredibly beautiful and his interpretation of the concerto quite different from what you hear today--truly a portal back in time.

Moriz Rosenthal: 
https://www.amazon.com/Moriz-Rosent...eywords=moriz+rosenthal+chopin+piano+concerto
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EEBIZA/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp (This recording can be heard for free, if you have Amazon Prime.)


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## Larkenfield

The Zimerman/Polish Festival Orchestra is one of the finest recordings of the Concertos I've heard. Why? Because they do justice to the orchestrations that are behind the soloist and there's an almost equal measure of balance between them, which is refreshing to hear, showing that they can be far more effective than the supportive backgrounds are usually played. Zimerman plays beautifully in this delightful all-Polish collaboration that authentically _sounds_ like it. Currently at the top of my Chopin list and highly recommended.


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## Ras

*I like Argerich with Dutoit on EMI/now Warner -

Barenboim as soloist with Andris Nelsons conducting is my other favorite. *

Haven't heard Claudio Arrau for a long time - but it is probably good.

*I have the Barenboim recording on DVD but I think this CD contains the exact same live recordings:*


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## DavidA

ternegf said:


> Martha's recordings of the concertos with DG were: -
> 
> Piano Concerto No. 1 in E minor, Op. 11
> London Symphony Orchestra,*Claudio Abbado
> Piano Concerto No. 2 in F minor, Op. 21
> National Symphony Orchestra Washington,*Mstislav Rostropovich
> 
> Both are available on the excellent Martha Argerich The Collection Volume 2.


The best one of all is the No 1 at Lugano live. The others are good but this one is exceptional.

There are stacks of very fine recordings of these: Zimermann (his first with Giulini) Gilels (no1), Argerich, Weissenberg (an off-centre no 1 but gripping), Graffmann (no 1 with cut intro but superb). These are just a few I've got


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