# Could you make a symphony out of a guitar riff?



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

What would happen if a great guitar riff was given a proper classical "treatment", that is, if it was used as a main motif, and then developed into a symphony, just like Beethoven did in his 5th symphony, starting with just ta-ta-ta-TAAAAA and developing it into a glorious symphony.

Now imagine Beethoven taking the riff from Smoke on the Water, or I Can't Get No Satisfaction, and trying to do the same thing with it. What do you think the result would be? Could a riff be developed into a symphony?
How good such a symphony would be? Would it suck or be great?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I don't know your examples so I can't say for sure, but very few "riffs" as I know the word strike me as serviceable themes for symphonic treatment. Nevertheless, if Beethoven heard a passage that he thought had promise, I'm sure he could do the Beethoven thing and make something out of it -- although the origins would probably not be recognizeable.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

The remarkable thing about Beethoven's Fifth is that so much material is developed from a tiny motive. Most symphony themes are longer and more complex built from a few motives. A guitar riff, is more like a motive, just a few notes. A guitar riff isn't enough material to make an entire theme. 

A musical motive is the smallest musical fragment, a segment of a larger theme. I think of a riff as more like a motive, not a theme.

But I wonder if a theme could be built from a few different riffs and songs, and then developed into an entire symphony. There is probably enough riff material from Led Zeppelin to create a symphony. Can you imagine it? A Led Zeppelin symphony? Or a Deep Purple symphony?


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

Sure you could, but it would likely suck. Like others have said there's too little musical material to work with in most guitar riffs. 
And that's not a knock against guitar riffs either. The reason Beethoven was able to develop such a brilliant symphony out of such small material is that he was the kind of genius that comes along maybe once every few centuries. Very few if any people could have done what he did.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

senza sordino said:


> Can you imagine it? A Led Zeppelin symphony? Or a Deep Purple symphony?


There is a Queen symphony by Tolga Kashif:


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2019)

MarkW said:


> I don't know your examples so I can't say for sure, but very few "riffs" as I know the word strike me as serviceable themes for symphonic treatment. Nevertheless, if Beethoven heard a passage that he thought had promise, I'm sure he could do the Beethoven thing and make something out of it -- although the origins would probably not be recognizeable.











*"Smoke On The Water"*














*"(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" *






Would they make for great symphonies? - Oh, hell yeah!...

Would they make for even greater operas? - double "oh, hell yeah!"... but Flagstad not Nilsson... or Callas not Tebaldi... Maybe Tebaldi but not Sutherland... Maybe Sutherland but not Fleming... Maybe Fleming but definitely not Brightman...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I don't see why the famous Voodoo Chile riff couldn't be used as a foundation of something symphonic. Whether the result would be listenable would depend on the composer. I suspect that most worthwhile living composers would not be interested, though, and I am very happy with the treatment Hendrix manages. So the question should not be "could they?" - of course they could - but "why bother?"


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't see why they couldn't, and I guess that some very nice outcome would result if some valid composer put their hands on them.

Actually some bands in the "post-rock" genre employ a similar principle in that they "develop" a piece of music starting from a basic theme. Obviously their "treatment" is much less technically aware, composition-wise, than that of classical artists, and most of the times the "development" has more to do with the "orchestration" (as in: adding new instruments) and with intensity/tone rather than with the theme itself, but I have always felt that, well, that is among the most interesting genres in the rock domain.

Example at this link: Mogwai fear Satan, by Mogwai.






Here you can immediately recognize the theme, a very simple ascending three-note theme. It's not that they develop it melodically; the theme remains the same over and over; but they do build the piece around it with a nice progression, tension build-up, then release, etc.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Could you make a symphony out of a guitar riff? *

I couldn't.

But I swear I hear the bass riff from Iron Butterfly's "In a Gadda da Vida" in the first movement (Moderately Fast) of Paul Hindemith's Symphonia serena! I mean, those Butterfly guys produced an, at least, "moderately fast" rock anthem with the "Gadda da Vida", which, if the title has something to do with the Garden of Eden is certainly a kind of "serene" place. And that famous percussion interlude! It's there in the Hindemith movement, too! You'd think Hindemith would be a bit more subtle with his borrowings. I mean, if he wants to make a symphony out of a guitar riff, couldn't he do it with a bit more understatement? Alas ....

Now, if I can only figure out how the German composer did all this in 1946. over 20 years before Iron Butterfly ever recorded anything, I'll have the riddle solved. Could Hindemith have had a time machine? I mean, how else could he have made a symphony from a guitar riff used in "In a Gadda da Vida"?


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2019)

SONNET CLV said:


> *Could you make a symphony out of a guitar riff? *
> 
> I couldn't.
> 
> ...







Beginning at the 4:40 mark...






I think that you're right... both about the similarity between the two works and time machine that Hindemith obviously must have used to fast forward twenty years into the future upon which arriving he encountered the guitar riff from "In A Gadda Da Vida" and then went back twenty years into the past to then write "Symphonia Serena" based upon said guitar riff.

The only other possible explanation is that vocalist/organist/composer Doug Ingle somehow managed to hear a copy of Hindemith's "Symphonia Serena" and nicked the melody line and turned that into the guitar riff from "In A Gadda Da Vida" but quite frankly that seems a bit far-fetched if not outright preposterous so let's go with "time machine".

"Though it was not recorded until their second album, "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" was written during Iron Butterfly's early days. According to drummer Ron Bushy, organist/vocalist Doug Ingle wrote the song one evening while drinking an entire gallon of Red Mountain wine. When the inebriated Ingle then played the song for Bushy, who wrote down the lyrics for him, he was slurring his words so badly that what was supposed to be "in the Garden of Eden" was interpreted by Bushy as "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida".*

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida

* One of popular music's greatest mysteries is why Ingle didn't just change it back to "In the garden of Eden" once he sobered up... other than you know... the fact that perhaps he never actually did...

Another little known fact - Hindemith nicked "Mathis der Maler" from The Chiffons' "He's So Fine"...


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## AlexD (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't see why not. Classical musicians in the past embraced new instruments with new sounds, and so I see no reason why riffs couldn't be used. After all, Metallica and other artists have had their work played by orchestras, so why not?


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Guitar riffs are old hat.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

SONNET CLV said:


> *Could you make a symphony out of a guitar riff? *
> 
> I couldn't.
> 
> ...


Post of the day heh heh...


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