# Major and minor thirds



## Razumovskymas

I'm learning myself to play the piano and I was practicing the c-major scale with my left and right hand simultaneously, playing a c-major scale and the same scale one octave higher at the same time. To make things a bit more interesting I started shifting my right hand one step up each time and noticed that it gave some interesting sounds/harmonies. So in fact I was playing the C-major scale (ionian) against all the other church modes.

I was thinking that the octave (C-major scale + C-major scale one octave higher) and the fifth (C-major scale + the mixolydian scale) would sound the most harmonic but to my surprise it was the C-major + the third (in any octave) that sounded incredibly rich and harmonic. In other words the C-major scale played simultaneously with the Phrygian scale, actually playing major and minor thirds alternated sounded most harmonic. And not just a bit more harmonic than the rest but really a dramatic difference. When I play simple melodies like that it sounds incredibly melodic and harmonic to me.

Any thoughts about this? History? pieces of music using this type of harmony?

thanks!


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## Dim7

There is indeed a tendency to prefer harmonizing in thirds over harmonizing in fifths even though (perfect) fifths should be more consonant. One reason is that in the diatonic scale one of the fifths is diminished which sounds dissonant but I doubt that's all there is to it. 

When it comes to playing a major scale simultaneously with the relative Phrygian scale (same key signature), that is btw not typically not thought that way, that is to say it is not analyzed as playing to modes simultaneously.


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## Razumovskymas

Dim7 said:


> one of the fifths is diminished


is that the fifth of the B?


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## Dim7

Yes. .


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## EdwardBast

What you did was not playing the Ionian against the Phrygian mode. It was playing parallel thirds (actually 10ths, but those are just compounds of thirds) in C major. 

Thirds and their inversions, that is, 6ths (along with 4ths on some occasions when they are accompanied by parallel motion in 3rds) are the only parallel intervals sanctioned in traditional counterpoint from 1450 to the end of the common practice era. When you hear the melody of a pop, rock, or folk song harmonized, nearly always it is going to be predominantly in 3rds and 6ths.


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## Razumovskymas

EdwardBast said:


> When you hear the melody of a pop, rock, or folk song harmonized, nearly always it is going to be predominantly in 3rds and 6ths.


It sounded very popular-music-like indeed. Also a bit Schubert-like. Some moments in some Schubert piano sonatas make me think of some nowadays singer-songwriter playing piano. It's like Schubert invented the way most pop/rock musicians accompany their songs.


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## Bettina

Razumovskymas said:


> It sounded very popular-music-like indeed. Also a bit Schubert-like. Some moments in some Schubert piano sonatas make me think of some nowadays singer-songwriter playing piano. It's like Schubert invented the way most pop/rock musicians accompany their songs.


Yes, Schubert's piano sonatas sometimes use parallel thirds. But this sonority actually dates much further back.

Parallel thirds were frequently employed in 18th-century Italian opera, particularly in love duets to lend the music a sweet, harmonious character. This texture can also be heard in the Christe from Bach's Mass in B Minor.


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## Razumovskymas

something like this? (my favourite duetto)


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## Bettina

Razumovskymas said:


> something like this? (my favourite duetto)


That's a beautiful duet and it is a very good example of parallel thirds. It uses some parallel sixths, too. There's a lovely series of them beginning at around 1:56 (with a few passing dissonances).


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## Razumovskymas

Thanks for all the explanation, very useful for me 

And even more beautiful then a love duetto is a love quartetto


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## TwoPhotons

Here's a beautiful excerpt from Liszt's "Reminiscences de Norma" (originally by Bellini) which uses parallel 3rds/6ths in the accompaniment, as well as the melody later on. Listen from 7:53:


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## Razumovskymas

And even my friend Liszt teaches me parallel thirds!


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## Pugg

Razumovskymas said:


> And even my friend Liszt teaches me parallel thirds!


You see, one learns everyday something new on this wonderful forum!


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