# Myaskovsky2002



## Enjoying Life

I noticed today that Myaskovsky2002 had been temporarily banned. Is it appropriate to ask why he has been banned and how long his is banned for?

My opinion of Myaskovsky2002 varies from post to post, but I have come to appreciate some of his "energy" and his comments. We all tend to have our own quirks and I think we have room here for his.

I would hate to see him gone for long.


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## Huilunsoittaja

I think he was ranting too much on the "I can't read scores" theme. But maybe that's not enough, he had to have said something that was too provocative.

Well, things are gonna be a lot quieter around here.


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## Aramis

He would be okay with me if he wouldn't write the same thing in 2898459529461264 threads at the same time, answer questions from years 2005-2006 or resurrect other ancient threads just to say "I don't like it... LOL... Martin", write ten posts one under another, write about his son everywhere (there was like 3 threads about him + numerous posts in other various threads) and accuse people of being dumb ignorants because they don't know how many hairs did Rimsky-Korsakov have in his beard.


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## elgar's ghost

At least he can't blame Naxos for this.


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## Fsharpmajor

Unless it was the "Naxos sucks" thread that got him banned.

I do share some of his enthusiasm for Rimsky-Korsakov.


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## RBrittain

Aramis said:


> He would be okay with me if he wouldn't write the same thing in 2898459529461264 threads at the same time, answer questions from years 2005-2006 or resurrect other ancient threads just to say "I don't like it... LOL... Martin", write ten posts one under another, write about his son everywhere (there was like 3 threads about him + numerous posts in other various threads) and accuse people of being dumb ignorants because they don't know how many hairs did Rimsky-Korsakov have in his beard.


This. :lol:


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## Ukko

In at least one of his posts (there aren't enough hours in the day to read all of them) Martin mentioned the Alzheimer affliction. If he is indeed a member of that group, self interest makes me hope he is cut a little slack. I probably don't have that particular problem, but senile dementia is on the horizon. And many of the exhibited symptoms are similar.


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## Ukko

In at least one of his posts (there aren't enough hours in the day to read all of them) Martin mentioned the Alzheimer affliction. If he is indeed a member of that group, self interest makes me hope he is cut a little slack. I probably don't have that particular problem, but senile dementia is on the horizon. And many of the exhibited symptoms are similar.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Hilltroll72 said:


> In at least one of his posts (there aren't enough hours in the day to read all of them) Martin mentioned the Alzheimer affliction. If he is indeed a member of that group, self interest makes me hope he is cut a little slack. I probably don't have that particular problem, but senile dementia is on the horizon. And many of the exhibited symptoms are similar.


Woah! Really? Perhaps we should have warned him what he was doing.

Otherwise, I agree with Aramis. Quietly.


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## Rangstrom

Martin seems to have a binary response to music: if he has a particular work/performance it is great, if he doesn't then it is crap. An approach that may be useful for him, but not very helpful or informative for others.


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## Machiavel

Hope I won't get put down for that but to me Martin is an elitist just like.... others are.It would be long to name them all.Many are here on this forum but they have no clue how much they are elitist and full of themselves. You know, the type who listen to a work for 30 seconds less and start to laugh at the performance.Then they go on an elaborate answer as to why the work is weak and pathetic. And some are not even adult but they bash and bash and critics . Like the Andre bocelli. When I read that at least 5 people did not even listen to 30 seconds.How can you have a serious opinion or have an opinion for that matter with such a short listening.Hard to take those people seriously.


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## emiellucifuge

Machiavel said:


> Hope I won't get put down for that but to me Martin is an elitist just like.... others are.It would be long to name them all.Many are here on this forum but they have no clue how much they are elitist and full of themselves. You know, the type who listen to a work for 30 seconds less and start to laugh at the performance.Then they go on an elaborate answer as to why the work is weak and pathetic. And some are not even adult but they bash and bash and critics . Like the Andre bocelli. When I read that at least 5 people did not even listen to 30 seconds.How can you have a serious opinion or have an opinion for that matter with such a short listening.Hard to take those people seriously.


Theres a difference between criticising music and performance. A good performance has only a small amount of mistakes or 'bad playing'. If you get to the first 30 seconds of a 2 minute aria and its been horrible, then that is an unacceptable amount.


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## Ukko

Machiavel said:


> Hope I won't get put down for that but to me Martin is an elitist just like.... others are.I


You appear to be using 'elitist' as a general purpose cussword. It doesn't fit Martin, nor in fact the '30 seconds and out' procedure you complain about. You can find more accurate adjectives in any secondary school level thesaurus, and chances are they will pass muster with the mods if applied in moderation.


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## mamascarlatti

Machiavel said:


> Hope I won't get put down for that but to me Martin is an elitist just like.... others are.It would be long to name them all.Many are here on this forum but they have no clue how much they are elitist and full of themselves. You know, the type who listen to a work for 30 seconds less and start to laugh at the performance.Then they go on an elaborate answer as to why the work is weak and pathetic. And some are not even adult but they bash and bash and critics . Like the *Andre bocelli*. When I read that at least 5 people did not even listen to 30 seconds.How can you have a serious opinion or have an opinion for that matter with such a short listening.Hard to take those people seriously.


My eight year old made me listen again to the end. The performance just got worse. There was no way it could have got better as Bocelli clearly does not have the technique for this type of music. You can tell straight away if you spend a lot of time listening to good singing (two-three hours a day for me). A couple of years ago, after I had had a long break from listening to opera, I wouldn't have been so sensitive to his deficiencies.

BTW the aria itself is great. What makes me sad is that some people have only heard Bocelli singing it.


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## Chris

Hilltroll72 said:


> You appear to be using 'elitist' as a general purpose cussword.


I'd vote for a five-year moratorium on 'elitist'. It can mean anything from possessing good taste to imperiously snobbish. A useless word.


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## Almaviva

1. @ Machiavel: You can take the folks who reacted to the Bocelli clip seriously. I know them, they are not elitists, they are just folks who are used to good operatic singing and can tell the difference. Bocelli's rendition was truly atrocious, and you could tell from the first few seconds. It only got worse and worse. It's enough to compare his version to some others that exist on YouTube by bona fide opera singers, and anybody will be able to tell the difference. That's not elitism, it's just a question of technique. It's totally fine for Mr. Bocelli to make money out of his crossover singing. But please, Mr. Bocelli, the least you can do is to know your limitations and stop biting more than you can chew.

2. The immediate trigger to ban myaskovsky has to do with his calling another user an *******. Period. As simple as this, no need for any big conspiracy theory.

3. Alzheimer at 59 is rare. That's probably not his case.

4. The ban was short, five days.

5. It's up to Martin to react appropriately to this, or not. If he's a grown mature man, he should come back and tone down, and refrain from calling people ********. If he can't manage to be civil, then in my opinion the ban should be repeated, for a longer time. Alzheimer or not, in my personal opinion calling someone an ******* is not really something we here as a community should put up with. We can disagree, but let's remain polite, shall we?

6. I have had my share of lack of control, and one of the moderators had to edit a post of mine. I used it as a lesson and didn't restart the bad behavior. Martin can do it too, if he wants. Just recently I had a clash with a junior user who seems to think he's got the monopoly of the truth and everybody who disagrees with him, in his words, is "ignorant." Then I went back and deleted my post, and declared myself not interested in the discussion any longer. If you run into nasty users, folks, walk away, don't go calling anybody ********. This is my advice. Live long and prosper.

7. Moderated sites are ten times more pleasant and enjoyable than non-moderated sites. The latter soon enough fill up with spammers, trolls, condescending snobs, and generally nasty people, and become unpleasant places. When any of us misbehaves, it's totally OK to get a slap on the wrist. The moderators do a fine job (for free, mind you) keeping this place pleasant for us, and I value their effort and the hours they put on this, for our benefit. Many (usually younger) users have the knee-jerk reflex of questioning anything that is perceived as established authority. In the case of the moderators, they are folks just like us who love classical music, and have volunteered their time to keep this place as enjoyable as it is.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Almaviva said:


> 2. The immediate trigger to ban myaskovsky has to do with his calling another user an *******. Period. As simple as this, no need for any big conspiracy theory.


I see. But how did you know this? Just curious.


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## Almaviva

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I see. But how did you know this? Just curious.


I have my sources.


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## rgz

Machiavel said:


> Hope I won't get put down for that but to me Martin is an elitist just like.... others are.It would be long to name them all.Many are here on this forum but they have no clue how much they are elitist and full of themselves. You know, the type who listen to a work for 30 seconds less and start to laugh at the performance.Then they go on an elaborate answer as to why the work is weak and pathetic. And some are not even adult but they bash and bash and critics . Like the Andre bocelli. When I read that at least 5 people did not even listen to 30 seconds.How can you have a serious opinion or have an opinion for that matter with such a short listening.Hard to take those people seriously.


As I said in a follow up post in the Bocelli thread, my hunch is that it was a particularly bad day for him. The thread was meant to be a silly, fun little thing and not all "serious internet business". And it'd be completely different if it were an 18 year old singer who was looking for feedback or something -- the thread never would have been posted and I'd have forgotten I saw the clip 10 minutes after watching it. But if someone is making a career out of singing (or any artform), they best be prepared to accept criticism. Particularly if they're singing things they shouldn't be. He can't have it both ways (i.e., Both singing opera and having defenders say "It's not fair to compare him to operatic standards".) OK, fine, then sing romantic songs ala crooners of the 1950s and he'll be compared to a much different standard, one in which he'll have far better standing.

I also don't think Britney Spears is a good singer. Probably cause I'm an elitist.


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## Ukko

I'll say that it's reasonable to get banned for labeling someone an *******. I'd just like to pass along a philosophical point made by an old and wise acquaintance of mine. To wit:

Everyone is an ******* now and then; to varying degrees and with varying frequencies, but ******* nonetheless. Living an Honest Life is a matter of acceptance and moving on.

Bob Lombard (moving on)

:devil:


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## jhar26

Myaskovsky2002 hasn't been banned exclusively for the post Almaviva is referring too. There have been several posts of his before that one for which he has been warned, and several others to which we turned a blind eye even though they weren't in line with the rules of the forum. We have to draw the line somewhere though.


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## Almaviva

Hilltroll72 said:


> I'll say that it's reasonable to get banned for labeling someone an *******. I'd just like to pass along a philosophical point made by an old and wise acquaintance of mine. To wit:
> 
> Everyone is an ******* now and then; to varying degrees and with varying frequencies, but ******* nonetheless. Living an Honest Life is a matter of acceptance and moving on.
> 
> Bob Lombard (moving on)
> 
> :devil:


Sure. But since we're civilized folks, we don't *call* people ******** even when they behave like ********; at least, not if we want to keep this place a *pleasant* forum in which we *friendly* discuss classical music. In the case of Martin's exchange (which can't be seen any longer since it was deleted by the mods), the other guy wasn't even acting like an *******.


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## Almaviva

jhar26 said:


> Myaskovsky2002 hasn't been banned exclusively for the post Almaviva is referring too. There have been several posts of his before that one for which he has been warned, and several others to which we turned a blind eye even though they weren't in line with the rules of the forum. We have to draw the line somewhere though.


Well, that's why I said "immediate trigger." Like, the straw that broke the camel's back.


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## jhar26

Almaviva said:


> Well, that's why I said "immediate trigger." Like, the straw that broke the camel's back.


Sure. I just want to make sure that people understand that we didn't ban him only because of that one post, even though it was - as you say, "the straw that broke the camel's back."


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## Almaviva

jhar26 said:


> Sure. I just want to make sure that people understand that we didn't ban him only because of that one post, even though it was - as you say, "the straw that broke the camel's back."


Yep, the warning in the thread "do you ever like to analyze music" was pretty explicit and stern, but instead of toning down, he escalated, went in the opposite direction...:lol:
So I'm curious to know how he'll react once he comes back from the ban.


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## the_emptier

i've been here two days and he was kind of annoying :lol:


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## Almaviva

the_emptier said:


> i've been here two days and he was kind of annoying :lol:


I can't deny that the last couple of days have been very peaceful.


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## Ravellian

Generally, I found his posts to be annoying because I couldn't for the life of me understand what he was talking about. :X


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## Very Senior Member

Almaviva said:


> 1. @ Machiavel: You can take the folks who reacted to the Bocelli clip seriously. I know them, they are not elitists, they are just folks who are used to good operatic singing and can tell the difference. Bocelli's rendition was truly atrocious, and you could tell from the first few seconds. It only got worse and worse. It's enough to compare his version to some others that exist on YouTube by bona fide opera singers, and anybody will be able to tell the difference. That's not elitism, it's just a question of technique. It's totally fine for Mr. Bocelli to make money out of his crossover singing. But please, Mr. Bocelli, the least you can do is to know your limitations and stop biting more than you can chew.
> 
> 2. The immediate trigger to ban myaskovsky has to do with his calling another user an *******. Period. As simple as this, no need for any big conspiracy theory.
> 
> 3. Alzheimer at 59 is rare. That's probably not his case.
> 
> 4. The ban was short, five days.
> 
> 5. It's up to Martin to react appropriately to this, or not. If he's a grown mature man, he should come back and tone down, and refrain from calling people ********. If he can't manage to be civil, then in my opinion the ban should be repeated, for a longer time. Alzheimer or not, in my personal opinion calling someone an ******* is not really something we here as a community should put up with. We can disagree, but let's remain polite, shall we?
> 
> 6. I have had my share of lack of control, and one of the moderators had to edit a post of mine. I used it as a lesson and didn't restart the bad behavior. Martin can do it too, if he wants. Just recently I had a clash with a junior user who seems to think he's got the monopoly of the truth and everybody who disagrees with him, in his words, is "ignorant." Then I went back and deleted my post, and declared myself not interested in the discussion any longer. If you run into nasty users, folks, walk away, don't go calling anybody ********. This is my advice. Live long and prosper.
> 
> 7. Moderated sites are ten times more pleasant and enjoyable than non-moderated sites. The latter soon enough fill up with spammers, trolls, condescending snobs, and generally nasty people, and become unpleasant places. When any of us misbehaves, it's totally OK to get a slap on the wrist. The moderators do a fine job (for free, mind you) keeping this place pleasant for us, and I value their effort and the hours they put on this, for our benefit. Many (usually younger) users have the knee-jerk reflex of questioning anything that is perceived as established authority. In the case of the moderators, they are folks just like us who love classical music, and have volunteered their time to keep this place as enjoyable as it is.


In the light of your observations, I must say that you appear to be incredibly well-informed about the the various Moderator decisions behind the banning of this individual: why it was given, how long for, etc. This is not normally information that is available to ordinary members, as far as I know. May I ask whether this means that they discuss with you the detailed reasons behind their thinking and actions in regard to taking disciplinary action against some individuals? If that is the case, I wonder whether you might be able to tell us any more about how it is that they have come to keep you in the loop regarding such dealings with certain individuals. Indeed, is there any wider gossip you can share with us about other individuals you may have been discussing with the moderators? I must say too that your speculations about myaskovsky's mental state, in terms of whether or not he may have Alzeihmer's, are fascinating. As a medical doctor, do you normally discuss patients' medical conditions in public? If not, may I ask what prompted you to speculate on this matter in the present case?


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## rgz

Furthermore, Almaviva, can you prove you weren't the 9/11 mastermind? I think not :scold:


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## Almaviva

Very Senior Member said:


> In the light of your observations, I must say that you appear to be incredibly well-informed about the the various Moderator decisions behind the banning of this individual: why it was given, how long for, etc. This is not normally information that is available to ordinary members, as far as I know. May I ask whether this means that they discuss with you the detailed reasons behind their thinking and actions in regard to taking disciplinary action against some individuals? If that is the case, I wonder whether you might be able to tell us any more about how it is that they have come to keep you in the loop regarding such dealings with certain individuals. Indeed, is there any wider gossip you can share with us about other individuals you may have been discussing with the moderators? I must say too that your speculations about myaskovsky's mental state, in terms of whether or not he may have Alzeihmer's, are fascinating. As a medical doctor, do you normally discuss patients' medical conditions in public? If not, may I ask what prompted you to speculate on this matter in the present case?


Oh well, have you heard of the proverbial grapevine? When you follow the boards closely and something like this happens, people talk, and one can also see them happening when one bumps into posts and reads them before they get deleted. What the mods do is public (at least for a while), they post warnings, take action, post reasons for the actions, and then often wipe out the whole thing. So, again, no need for conspiracy theories of private access to the mods; if you want to get informed, pay attention and you will. I think the only thing you can legitimately accuse me of, is of logging in too often. It's beginning to impact on my time. I like this place too much.

No, I don't discuss patients' medical conditions in public. Martin is not my patient, a distinction you seem to have overlooked. I merely said that Alzheimer at age 59 is unlikely. I could also tell you that heart attacks and strokes at age 5 are unlikely, that degenerative disk disease at age 20 is unlikely, and that hypertension and diabetes at age 60 among the obese are likely. You don't need me to tell you this, though, it's widely available public information that you can get from places as simple as Wikipedia, so I don't see what kind of breach of patients' confidentiality you're accusing me of, here. What prompted me? Easy. Someone in this very thread had speculated that Martin has Alzheimer. Since Martin makes of his age public information, I merely said that at his age it is unlikely (although not impossible).

Oh, and about "what prompted me to speculate," etc, maybe you should read attentively the original post. There were two questions asked there - why was he banned, and for how long? Since I happened to know the truthful answer to these questions (which at one point for those who follow things attentively, was public information), I replied. I fail to see how exactly this is "gossip." If anything, my answer was meant to stop the gossiping. If you follow the thread, you'll see that speculation was going on right and left, and I merely stated the simple truth - which is often a powerful tool in terms of stopping speculation and gossiping. The sense of my reply was = there was a trigger which seems to me to be a good reason, it was a short punishment, the mods are no monsters, let's move on, and hopefully Martin will learn his lesson and come back with a different attitude, it can happen to all of us, let's all be civil and polite to each other, let's not speculate that it is Alzheimer which by the way is unlikely in his age group, etc. Simple, no?

If my tongue-in-cheek answer about how I know about it - "I have my sources" followed by a smiley - is what triggered your concern about some sort of private access I might have, please refer to the smiley. It was meant as a joke.

Look, my take on this has been positive. I have just indicated that there were reasons for his ban that I find valid, and that he should just take the warning and tone down, and resume participation, which is what *I* did when I misbehaved and was slapped on the wrist for it. My post was more in the sense of decreasing the turmoil and settling things down. I have, by the way, said the same things directly to Martin (in more than one occasion, and also following his ban - he briefly came back under another name, and I told him the very things that I said here in this thread - I consider what I said to be good, friendly, and constructive advice). 
But sure, if you found my post offensive in any way, I apologize.:tiphat:


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## Almaviva

rgz said:


> Furthermore, Almaviva, can you prove you weren't the 9/11 mastermind? I think not :scold:


I wasn't, but I *am* a close adviser to Obama, Putin, Sarkozy, and Chavez. This Chavez kid, man, I tell him to tone down very often, to no avail. My private messages with Obama, Putin, and Sarkozy are crazy. They keep asking me to rein in the Iranians but it is not as easy as they think. Wheew, I wish they'd leave me alone. I'm tired of solving the world's problems.


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## Argus

Chris said:


> I'd vote for a five-year moratorium on 'elitist'. It can mean anything from possessing good taste to imperiously snobbish. A useless word.


The notion of a person possessing good taste is incredibly elitist.:tiphat:


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## StlukesguildOhio

The notion of a person possessing good taste is incredibly elitist.

And elitism scares you?


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## myaskovsky2002

*Thank you guys!*

Well..The guy was very cool and accepted my apology...Back here...How can I be elitist if myself I am a very simple (and poor) guy. LOL.

I am not elitist. I have said what I think: I don't like Kiri-Tekanawa and Naxos....But do you like everything? I don't think so.

I was maybe too sincere. I will try to control myself a bit as I said to a guy 10 minutes ago.

Sometimes I feel as the ugly duckling...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Duckling

Best regards to everyone.

Martin, the black sheep.


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## emiellucifuge

Welcome Martin


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## Argus

StlukesguildOhio said:


> The notion of a person possessing good taste is incredibly elitist.
> 
> And elitism scares you?


It makes me want to don a sombrero and play psychedelic fuzztones.



myaskovsky2002 said:


> Well..The guy was very cool and accepted my apology...Back here...How can I be elitist if myself I am a very simple (and poor) guy. LOL.
> 
> I am not elitist. I have said what I think: I don't like Kiri-Tekanawa and Naxos....But do you like everything? I don't think so.
> 
> I was maybe too sincere. I will try to control myself a bit as I said to a guy 10 minutes ago.
> 
> Sometimes I feel as the ugly duckling...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Duckling
> 
> Best regards to everyone.
> 
> Martin, the black sheep.


Relax, guy. I never said you were elitist, but now that you mention it, you are suspect. :devil:


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## Huilunsoittaja

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Sometimes I feel as the ugly duckling...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Duckling
> 
> Best regards to everyone.
> 
> Martin, the black sheep.


Speaking of the ugly duckling... welcome back, Mr. Prokofiev!


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## myaskovsky2002

*Lol!*



> Relax, guy. I never said you were elitist, but now that you mention it, you are suspect.


Sometimes I think I am. Not in terms of money (I can't be one) but maybe in terms of culture...E.g. yesterday as a joke trying to explain the differences between _ser y estar _in Spanish (*) I said to my students: Hamlet said "*to be or not to be*", I say now "*ser o estar*" (the two verbs to be we have in Spanish). Nobody had a clue about Hamlet's phrase, I felt depressed...I couldn't believe it! I felt so misunderstood!
==========================================
The title of this is "can she be so stupid?" I don't agree, they should change the title to:
Can she be so IGNORANT?

Take a look: Europe a country?






I don't like ignorance, do you? I can tolerate it...The Shakespeare's guys were my clients, I have no choice....I hid my feelings...

But does "to tolerate" means "to like"? would you be her friend?

Then... in that sense, I am probably elitist...are you not?
Each word has a meaning depending on the context.

BTW, I don't have Alzheimer, it was a joke....as I said I was Naenderthal (maybe a bit). LOL

(*) I teach Spanish

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*Thank you very much!*

Kitoss
Merci
Grazie tante
Danke schön
Gracias
Arigato
Cпасибо
Tak

to everybody. Glad to be back. Mr. Krummhorn was cool.

I'll try to be more Homo Sapiens and less Neandarthal.....LOL

Martin


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## sospiro

Welcome back Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*Thank you, Sospiro*

I love your little notes! How could you make them?

Martin


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## sospiro

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I love your little notes! How could you make them?
> 
> Martin


Cute aren't they? 

They are smilies from this site. (icons)

But any good smilies which I find, I save them as a gif in a folder in case the site disappears.


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## jurianbai

happy new year to all Neandarthal...oops, I mean member (who celebrated)

jurianbai,
LOL


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## myaskovsky2002

*I am maybe a rabbit*



> happy new year to all Neandarthal...oops, I mean member (who celebrated)
> 
> jurianbai,
> LOL


But a cat for vietnamese...I am so a cat! It is incredible! I feel like having a lot of friends. Thank you guys. My heart is warm.

Sincerely

Thanks again.

Martin


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## Enjoying Life

Welcome back!!!

For what it is worth you can call me anything you like (or whatever your crime was) and I forgive you in advance. That should remove any need for banning if you get carried away in my direction.

As for the comments that it has been quiet while you were gone - it has been and I don't know why that is a good thing. A forum is for talking and posting. So keep it coming.

Any yes, you have friends.


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## Enjoying Life

As for the word "elite". I don't think it is a bad word. Elite is all about being the best and I think we listen to the best music and have the best interests. So I think that makes us elite - plain and simple. Why settle for second best and why act like we do?


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## Almaviva

Welcome back, Martin.
Like I said by PM, do tone down a little, buddy, and move on. The moderators are here to keep us "honest" and they have slapped me on the past as well (deservedly so), and the right thing to do is to learn your lesson, control your impulses a little better, and continue to enjoy this nice and friendly place.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Katerina Ismailova*

I was just reading for the 3rd or 4th time that The Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk was banned by Stalin and with a review, it became Katerina Ismailova...Personally I prefer the second version (the homo sapiens version)...the "tamed" version...

But after 1991 people asked for the original, the Neanderthal Lady Macbeth....Saying that it was more colorful and original....(as they do with Mussorgsky's Boris).

Matière a réflexion.

Martin


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I was just reading for the 3rd or 4th time that The Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk was banned by Stalin and with a review, it became Katerina Ismailova...Personally I prefer the second version (the homo sapiens version)...the "tamed" version...
> 
> But after 1991 people asked for the original, the Neanderthal Lady Macbeth....Saying that it was more colorful and original....(as they do with Mussorgsky's Boris).
> 
> Matière a réflexion.
> 
> Martin


Oh well, Martin, we appreciate the metaphor, but sorry, buddy, you're no Mussorgsky.:lol:


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## myaskovsky2002

*well...*



> Oh well, Martin, we appreciate the metaphor, but sorry, buddy, you're no Mussorgsky


You haven't understood. That's ok. I am out of danger then...LOL

Martin


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> You haven't understood. That's ok. I am out of danger then...LOL
> 
> Martin


Yes, I did understand, perfectly. I was just joking back at you. You meant that the Neanderthal Martin (the confrontational one) was banned by the mods (you equal them to Stalin's censorship - although you know that I disagree with this view) and may try to present a revised version that will be actually more pleasant to the ear. I hope so.:tiphat:


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## Argus

Enjoying Life said:


> As for the word "elite". I don't think it is a bad word. Elite is all about being the best and I think we listen to the best music and have the best interests. So I think that makes us elite - plain and simple. Why settle for second best and why act like we do?


'Best', 'worst', 'success', 'failure' are either tools or illusions. Self imposing these upon yourself is fine and healthy, but to what extent are these externally manufactured by your culture or even 'the elite'.

Is Mozart (any the usual suspects could go here) a great composer or is it because he appealed to the then 'elite' that his myth has been perpetuated by their inheritors ever since to keep the status quo? And on the flip side music that is labelled as 'terrible' so because it represents the anti-elite sentiment? Isn't that a bit like the Entertate Kunst of the past.

Listening without preconceptions or expectations is, for me, the true way.


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## starry

Enjoying Life said:


> As for the word "elite". I don't think it is a bad word. Elite is all about being the best and I think we listen to the best music and have the best interests. So I think that makes us elite - plain and simple. Why settle for second best and why act like we do?


Many words can mean different things to different people.


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## starry

Argus said:


> Listening without preconceptions or expectations is, for me, the true way.


As you put it there I think that is laudable. Certainly in popular music I've found some of the most acclaimed artists (particularly in more recent decades) have been overrated to my ears compared to more unknown ones. Don't follow the crowd just find what you like. Music isn't an exam where you have to be right in some way, it's meant for entertainment and to be enjoyed.


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## Fsharpmajor

Almaviva said:


> Yes, I did understand, perfectly. I was just joking back at you. You meant that the Neanderthal Martin (the confrontational one) was banned by the mods (you equal them to Stalin's censorship - although you know that I disagree with this view) and may try to present a revised version that will be actually more pleasant to the ear. I hope so.:tiphat:


Shostakovich was banned by Stalin a second time, in 1948...so I hope the historical parallel doesn't go too far....


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## myaskovsky2002

*Lol*

Stalin DIED!!!!!! LOL triple LOL



> Yes, I did understand, perfectly. I was just joking back at you. You meant that the Neanderthal Martin (the confrontational one) was banned by the mods (you equal them to Stalin's censorship - although you know that I disagree with this view) and may try to present a revised version that will be actually more pleasant to the ear. I hope so.


You got 85% of the story, my friend...in 1991 when the URSS was disolved...People asked for Lady Macbeth of Mnstnsk again (Neanderthal?) instead of the revised Katerina (Homo sapiens?)....

Some people prefer it tough? LOL

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*a word....*



> Many words can mean different things to different people.


.

101% agreement!

I hate words, they are so poor...I have never could express mi ideas into words completely, I don't think in words but in concepts...I have to translate into words my ideas each time I speak...But I can easily translate them into three different languages depending on the people I am speaking with.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*When you like....*

When you like composers nobody knows or many dislike...are you an elitist....if yes, I am an elitist...I call myself a "poor-defender"...I love Russian opera and guys from Vienna (Schreker, Zemlinsky, Schönberg, Berg, Webern, Wellesz, Mahler less) more than anyone else...

I like to be different, I am used to being different. When I was a kid I was worried, now I accept it and sometimes I am proud of it. Aren't you?

Martin, weird


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Stalin DIED!!!!!! LOL triple LOL
> 
> You got 85% of the story, my friend...in 1991 when the URSS was disolved...People asked for Lady Macbeth of Mnstnsk again (Neanderthal?) instead of the revised Katerina (Homo sapiens?)....
> 
> Some people prefer it tough? LOL
> 
> Martin


True; on the other hand, Katerina never got banned...


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## Almaviva

How did this thing about elitism get into this thread anyway? Because some users listened to a truly atrocious clip with Andrea Bocelli and called it for what it is - namely, atrocious? Why is this being elitist?


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## myaskovsky2002

> True; on the other hand, Katerina never got banned...


Not banned....Alas! Forgotten! (this is worse).

Martin...trying to think...LOL


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Not banned....Alas! Forgotten! (this is worse).
> 
> Martin...trying to think...LOL


Not forgotten, I actually own a version of it. Guess what, *you* recommended it to me!


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## myaskovsky2002

*Drinken! Drinken!*



> How did this thing about elitism get into this thread anyway? Because some users listened to a truly atrocious clip with Andrea Bocelli and called it for what it is - namely, atrocious? Why is this being elitist?


I think I understand...I really think so...

Usually people do like Bocelli when they like very light classics...and THESE people call the others elitists...Because populace speak often about elitism...tryng to say "people different from us are elitist". Nobody speaks more often of elitism with anger than populace do. But usually when you are populace you don't know you are....

LOL

Like the daughter of the King René (Yolantha, Tchaikovsky) who was blind but didn't know she was, then she was happy...

I think this is enough...We are all elitists here! We are a minority, the majority, at least in Montreal don't like classical music. I assume, I am! Let's change the subject...

Drinken! Drinken!

Martin


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## Huilunsoittaja

Haha who changed the thread name just to "Myaskovsky2002"? Yeah! A whole thread dedicated to him!


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## Almaviva

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Haha who changed the thread name just to "Myaskovsky2002"? Yeah! A whole thread dedicated to him!


A moderator must have done it. I don't think regular users have this editing capacity for thread titles. But yes, it's quite the honor...:lol: Usually to have one's name on the title of a thread in TC, one needs to have composed some major symphonies...


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## myaskovsky2002

> Not forgotten, I actually own a version of it. Guess what, *you* recommended it to me!


The only I can recommend is the one I have on LP and transferred to CD, it is awesome...Provatorov.

http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-...=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296790119&sr=1-8

I bought this in 1969, one year before going to Russia. For me is the very best version ever...I have another Katerina...Opera d'oro, quite bad. I have 3 DVDs...two with Galina Vizhneskaya but she doesn't get it! I don't think I recommended you a Katerina...and I think (and I respect that) you are not "diying" for Russian opera, are you? If you insist, I could send you my CDs from my converted LP. No charge.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

A


> moderator must have done it. I don't think regular users have this editing capacity for thread titles. But yes, it's quite the honor... Usually to have one's name on the title of a thread in TC, one needs to have composed some major symphonies...


I have not a clue.

Maybe a mistake? Personally, I like it. LOL

Martin


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## Jacob Singer

You've certainly made a name for yourself.

:tiphat:


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## HarpsichordConcerto

myaskovsky2002 said:


> A
> 
> I have not a clue.
> 
> Maybe a mistake? Personally, I like it. LOL
> 
> Martin


Is that Myaskovsky the composer pictured in you avatar?


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## emiellucifuge

Yes it is.

Looks kind of militant doesnt he...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

emiellucifuge said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> Looks kind of militant doesnt he...


Rather militant and stern looking, not dignified, unlike the composer pictured in my avatar.


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## mamascarlatti

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Rather militant and stern looking, not dignified, .


I think he looks glum, gloomy, hangdog.



HarpsichordConcerto said:


> unlike the composer pictured in my avatar.


Handel on the other hand looks piercingly bright and very well fed.


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## myaskovsky2002

> Is that Myaskovsky the composer pictured in you avatar?


Yes, it is. I am very consistent.

My nickname and my avatar are the same...

Best regards,

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

Haendel was always well fed by the king himself!

I am not a fan of Haendel...I find his music a bit superficial...Some operas are awesome though...


Martin


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> The only I can recommend is the one I have on LP and transferred to CD, it is awesome...Provatorov.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-...=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296790119&sr=1-8
> 
> I bought this in 1969, one year before going to Russia. For me is the very best version ever...I have another Katerina...Opera d'oro, quite bad. I have 3 DVDs...two with Galina Vizhneskaya but she doesn't get it! I don't think I recommended you a Katerina...and I think (and I respect that) you are not "diying" for Russian opera, are you? If you insist, I could send you my CDs from my converted LP. No charge.
> 
> Martin


No, I'm not dying for Russian opera but I do have a few and like them. And yes, you were definitely the one who recommended this DVD to me. It was based on your recommendation that I ordered it.










Who else would have recommended it anyway, Martin?:lol:
I haven't seen it yet. It's sitting on my unwatched pile.
I have seen the Lady Macbeth version, though, and loved it.


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## myaskovsky2002

*I didn't know you were speaking about DVD*



> Who else would have recommended it anyway, Martin?
> I haven't seen it yet. It's sitting on my unwatched pile.
> I have seen the Lady Macbeth version, though, and loved it.
> __________________


Did I recommend you this one?

Yo also have this version:

http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1296932015&sr=1-2

I have both...I was speaking about CDs....There is not a satisfying version, then I made 3 CDs from my 3 LP.

I hope you will enjoy it.

Martin


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## StlukesguildOhio

Handel, superficial!!??:scold:

*Blasphemy!!!*


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## myaskovsky2002

*you seem angry*



> Handel, superficial!!??
> 
> Blasphemy!!!


That is an opinion...and I can give my opinion because I listened to all his Water and Fire stuff...Can you really say this is serious? His concerti grossi...are kind of all the same for my ears. Probably you think the same about composers I love and I cannot kill you...You are too far...LOL

Martin, far


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## mamascarlatti

myaskovsky2002 said:


> That is an opinion...and I can give my opinion because I listened to all his Water and Fire stuff...Can you really say this is serious? His concerti grossi...are kind of all the same for my ears. Probably you think the same about composers I love and I cannot kill you...You are too far...LOL
> 
> Martin, far


So there are 42 operas you have not listened to. Are these actually all the same?


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## Almaviva

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Did I recommend you this one?
> 
> Yo also have this version:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1296932015&sr=1-2
> 
> I have both...I was speaking about CDs....There is not a satisfying version, then I made 3 CDs from my 3 LP.
> 
> I hope you will enjoy it.
> 
> Martin


Thanks.

This is the one I saw, and I thought it was truly spectacular! What do you think of it?


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## myaskovsky2002

*Haendel's operas*



> So there are 42 operas you have not listened to. Are these actually all the same?


Unless my Alzheimer is coming back, I remember saying he had awesome operas!!!!!!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*Almaviva...(Katerina...)*

Boris: Katerina....
Kat: Chto? (what)
Boris: Pach Parà (are you sleeping)
==================================



> Thanks.
> 
> This is the one I saw, and I thought it was truly spectacular! What do you think of it?


You have the same I have and I consider it a Master piece...The photography and the nudity...LOL...She sings wonderfully...(blague à part)

About the one you were showing me:

- I have no idea but I usually don't like modern mises en scene.
- I didn't allow myself to have more than 2 DVDs for this...Anyhow you already have the best: Rostropovich and his wife, Galina Vizhnestkaya...Of course she sings but a hotter actress appears instead...Russian or rather Soviet were used to doing these tricks....

- The very best version is my LP I transferred to CD. The beggining for me it is the most important part of the opera, when Katerina is bored speaking about her "little life"...

...and Galina is good but not excellent...Eleonora Andreyeva is kind of sighting while singing...you notice she doesn't want to live anymore...Because you discover finally that Katerina is not willing to live...She wants to punish herself, she knows she is a monster.
==================================

The real story (by Nikolai Leskov) is worse. Katerina murdered more people even a boy. 
All the nice atttributes Shostakovich gave her he made them up!

The real story is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Macbeth_of_the_Mtsensk_District_(story)

Please read this.

She pushed Sergei (Seriocha kindly) to murder other people, that's why this was called Lady Macbeth...

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*(Katerina) Better link...I'm sorry*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Macbeth_of_the_Mtsensk_District_(story)

Martin


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## mamascarlatti

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Unless my Alzheimer is coming back, I remember saying he had awesome operas!!!!!!
> 
> Martin


Must be my Alzheimer. Glad you like them.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Super LOL!*



> Must be my Alzheimer. Glad you like them.


I love many of them...

We are beginning to speak the same language.....

Some friends call me Achmed!






LOL

Martin


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## StlukesguildOhio

That is an opinion...and I can give my opinion because I listened to all his Water and Fire stuff...Can you really say this is serious? 

The Royal Fireworks and Water Music...? Some lovely tunes. Among the first works that introduced me to classical music... but surely far from being anywhere near the finest work of Handel. Beside his operas and oratorios he also had a wealth of cantatas and some wonderful instrumental works. I am quite enamored of the keyboard suites which while they do not rival Bach's work for keyboard, are surely quite marvelous.

As for light or non-serious music... who can we not lay such charges against? Tchaikovsky has his _Nutcracker_, Stravinsky his _Histoire du Soldat_ (both of which I still find quite marvelous), Shostakovitch his _Jazz Suites_, and even Bach had his _Coffee Cantata_. The only composers never to make the foray into the realm of lighter music are such pretentious, dead, old farts as Schoenberg... great ogre that he was.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Alas, you are right*



> As for light or non-serious music... who can we not lay such charges against? Tchaikovsky has his Nutcracker, Stravinsky his Histoire du Soldat (both of which I still find quite marvelous), Shostakovitch his Jazz Suites, and even Bach had his Coffee Cantata. The only composers never to make the foray into the realm of lighter music are such pretentious, dead, old farts as Schoenberg... great ogre that he was.


I love these Bach cantatas much more than the (I know the name in Spanish:* clave bien temperado* well tempered something?...with organ, this is soooooooooooooo boring). Nutcracker was composed for having some food on his table, I just hate it......L'histoire du soldat it's not that bad...I love Shostakovich Jazz suites but I understand if you like nothing of these and LOVE Haendel.

You like your wife/girlfriend, I like mine. The story becomes shorter...We are not stupid people here and we know we cannot impose our tastes to others and we respect other people, don't we? I have a good friend who lives in Ohio...His name is Jim. He has the same ilness than me, h eloves Russian opera too.

I respect your choices...I like very much Haendel's operas, many of them are really great...Not the same guy than the water or fire stuff...not at all superficial.

I'm pretty sure you like very much Rimsky-Korsakov, he composed 15 operas...LOL (I'm sure not). But it is ok. I am used to it!

Good night

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*about Schönberg*



> pretentious, dead, old farts as Schoenberg... great ogre that he was.


I read this afterwards and didn't like it at all. I like Schönberg very much...How do you dare saying that? I'm not happy...Not at all. Your understanding of music is limited, blame yourself, no others.

Haendel is simple music, direct, baroque...instantaneous...and very "spectacular" for the King and the court. Schönberg didn't have any king to impress, his music has to be studied, analyzed, listened many times...Maybe you are unable to do that...that's why you denigrate his music.

Nite nite

Martin


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## rgz

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I love these Bach cantatas much more than the (I know the name in Spanish:* clave bien temperado* well tempered something?


The Well-tempered Clavier is its usual English translation.
Every time I listen to Bach, I feel like I'm not smart enough to really understand it as its meant to be understood. Maybe one day!


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## myaskovsky2002

*Neither am I!*



> The Well-tempered Clavier is its usual English translation.
> Every time I listen to Bach, I feel like I'm not smart enough to really understand it as its meant to be understood. Maybe one day!


LOL

but I think the day I will be smart enough to like this I will be boring and awful for everything else.

Martin, happy with his limits.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Btw*

Did somebody watch the hilarious Achmed I posted before?

I love it!

Martin, childish


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