# Any thoughts on Bernstein's two Brahms Cycles?



## realdealblues

I am not a Brahms "specialist" and I don't know how others feel about Bernstein's Brahms but I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts/opinions about his 2 cycles.

Which one you might like better, why, etc?

I own Bernstein's earlier Brahm's Symphonies with the New York Philharmonic but haven't listened to his later recordings on DG. I know the DG recordings are supposed to have better sound, but I usually like Bernstein's earlier recordings with the NYPO. His earlier recordings just always seem to have a feeling of energy with a sense of wonder and discovery, where his later recordings seem more refined and polished.

Anyway, just looking for thoughts and opinions. I know there are other recommendations that always come up for Brahms, like Jochum, Furtwangler, etc and I do have other recordings from Karajan, Bohm & Haitink that I enjoy as well. But I'm really more interested in thoughts on Bernstein's Brahms.


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## Vaneyes

I'm a big Lenny fan...have been for ages. However, he never got the measure of Brahms Symphonies. Tempi, attacks, phrasings, transitions, are all out of whack. There are other composers he butchered, too...but this thread is about his Brahms.

Sony TTs - 44:06, 46:05, 36:07, 40:55

DG TTs - 52:04, 58:46, 62:16, 57:58


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## Webernite

Bernstein's Brahms is a bit turgid. I like what he does with certain movements, but that's about all.


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## realdealblues

Wow, I didn't know his times were so different between versions. I am a big Lenny fan so I always like to hear how he interprets things. 

I've been going back and starting with Brahms Symphony #1 which I know is not very popular. I think Hilltroll72 once put it...too much Beethoven, not enough Brahms...lol.

I listened to the first Brahms recordings I heard, Sawallisch with the LSO. His version of the 1st Symphony seems tragic to me the whole way through. I listened to Karajan's 60's recording which just sounds like Karajan to me which isn't a bad thing. It's just what I expect from him. I listened to Bohm's recording which seems more "large" and "grand" like Bohm always is. I just finished re-listening to Bernstein's NY recording and I really do like the way his 1st comes across. It may not be "proper" Brahms but it almost sounds like a Bernstein Mahler symphony to me which gives a quality that I do enjoy. I'm going to listen to a few more 1st Symphonies before moving onto the 2nd.

But I appreciate the comments. Like I said, I'm not a Brahm's authority. I've listened to Brahm's Symphonies, but I haven't really "listened" to Brahms, listening to same work by several different conductors right in a row before moving on so it's almost like a new experience for me.


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## bigshot

I got the big Bernstein symphonies box and I've been listening to it as it comes up in rotation. The bulk of the box is the early NYPO recordings. I'm loving the energy and exuberance, and most surprisingly, the precision. Hs Haydn symphonies are amazing on every level. A Brahms symphony came up the other day and I took note of the fact that while I normally find Brahms to be kind of without focus and meandering, Bernstein's interpretation kept it moving along and gave the music more variety and color than usual. Perhaps I like Brahms best when it isn't interpreted like Brahms. I like Munch's BSO Living Stereo Brahms too. But I've never connected with my Karajan or Jochum recordings.i should probably revisit those and see if I was missing something.


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## moody

bigshot said:


> I got the big Bernstein symphonies box and I've been listening to it as it comes up in rotation. The bulk of the box is the early NYPO recordings. I'm loving the energy and exuberance, and most surprisingly, the precision. Hs Haydn symphonies are amazing on every level. A Brahms symphony came up the other day and I took note of the fact that while I normally find Brahms to be kind of without focus and meandering, Bernstein's interpretation kept it moving along and gave the music more variety and color than usual. Perhaps I like Brahms best when it isn't interpreted like Brahms. I like Munch's BSO Living Stereo Brahms too. But I've never connected with my Karajan or Jochum recordings.i should probably revisit those and see if I was missing something.


Webernite and you obviously were listening to something else completely.
If I wanted to listen to Brahms (which I often do) I certainly wouldn't choose Bernstein,he's got no idea!


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## Andreas

As far as the duration of the symphonies is concerned: Did Bernstein observe the repeats in his earler cycle? I know he did in his DG one, so perhaps the difference in running time might also have to do with that.


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## bigshot

That might be it. The earlier recordings had record side lengths to contend with. All those earler times would neatly fit on a single LP. Over 25 minutes a side would be pushing it.


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## tahnak

realdealblues said:


> I am not a Brahms "specialist" and I don't know how others feel about Bernstein's Brahms but I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts/opinions about his 2 cycles.
> 
> Which one you might like better, why, etc?
> 
> I am a big follower of Leonard Bernstein and these are my comments:
> Bernstein has got many definitive readings but Brahms does not feature in those. His best readings of Brahms involve the violin concerto with Isaac Stern and New York and the Double Concerto with the Vienna Philharmonic. The best reading of an orchestra score of Brahms by Bernstein is the Tragic Overture with the old New York Philharmonic reading.
> These are my picks for Brahms' symphonies;
> Symphony No. 1- Zubin Mehta and Vienna Philharmonic (with the first movement repeat)
> Symphony No. 2 - Zubin Mehta/ Vienna and Karajan/ Berlin
> Symphony No. 3- Jascha Horenstein/ Baden Baden
> Symphony No. 4- Zubin Mehta/ New York and Bruno Walter/Columbia.


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