# Ars subtilior in iberic penninsula(catalan kingdom)



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Ockay someone on TC, said once, ars subtilior could have occured in northern spain, because back than there were a kingdom called Occitania that cover a part of france , italy & northern spain.

So i whant to know from catalan or spagniard, if they had sutch composer that could be pigeon hole into the affored mention genra.

Did ars subtilior reach iberic penninsula, any classical composer of actual spain fro the mid to late 14 century that could be said ars subtilior.

:tiphat:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Did ars subtilior reach iberic penninsula, any classical composer of actual spain fro the mid to late 14 century that could be said ars subtilior.
> 
> :tiphat:


Not as far as I know, there's no secular Iberian music which sounds like Trebor, Ciconia, Matteo de Perugia, Solage, Landini, Machaut . . . No complex, supple and changing rhythms or voicing.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The music on this CD is well worth hearing - a fabulous complex Gloria for example, I just found it on spotify, Ars subtilior sacred music I'd say, I don't know if the booklet is interesting. Maybe I was wrong in my post above









Maybe even more enjoyable, though I don't think very Ars subtilior, is the catalonia component of this wonderful CD, if anyone can find out more about it please let me know,









(It turns out that half of this is Thomas Binkley's Camino recording, the other half an I identified recording by Atrium Musicum - both very good!)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The Agnus Dei of the Missa Barcelona is in motet form and seems to me to be slightly _subtlior_ in style. There are two recordings - Pro Cantione Antiqua / Mark Brown and Atrium Musicae/Gregorio Paniagua. The former a more recognisable classical vocal style and with untexted parts sung with vocalise. The latter in a more folksy style, fishwife style singing, untexted parts given to instruments.

What Atrium Musicae do with the Agnus Dei is really quite remarkable, and deserves to be heard, even if elsewhere they can't compete with the expressiveness and nobility of Pro Cantione Antiqua.

The Atrium Musicae series is part of a huge collection on spotify called "Antologia Historica de la Musica Catalania." there may well be other things which are worthwhile in the series - eg I noticed a recording from Capela de musica de Santa Maria Del Mar called "Polifonia Medieval a Catalunya (siegles xiii i xiv)"


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Later than Ars Subtilior, but nevertheless showing great suppleness - I'm sure anyone who likes Trebor etc will enjoy this compilation CD. Nadine Balbeisi has a fabulously sensual voice for this sort of music, and Fernando Marin has specialised in Spanish viol music.


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