# The First Chamber Piece I have ever really enjoyed.



## Varick

Maybe it's age, and we all know that tastes change throughout our years. Maybe it's because I never explored chamber music enough (even though I have probably listened to approx 40-50 or so pieces). So much music, so little time, but Chamber Music has mostly bored me throughout my life, but I just finished listening to a piece with upon first hearing, I must say, I kind of fell in love:

Dvorak's Piano Quintet in A, Op. 81 - Sviatoslov Richter & The Borodin Quartet. The 2nd movement just spell-binded me and the rest of it was just fantastic. 

Who knows of this is an anomaly or if this is the start of enjoying more Chamber music. I've listened to a few of Brahms chamber pieces that I thought were quite listenable, but still never found anything to write home about. Before this piece I listened to Dvorak's Piano Quintet in A, Op. 5 by the same players and it did absolutely nothing for me. Just wanted to share a new love of a piece. Cheers!

V


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## Allegro Con Brio

I think this is one of the all-time masterpieces of chamber music. The opening theme of the first movement is simply spellbinding and it doesn't get any less interesting from there. So many of Dvorak's works are sadly underappreciated.


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## Open Book

This is one of the first pieces that got me into chamber music, too. It's a gateway piece. Direct and easy to listen to, but with a lot going on.

You'll find others.


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## juliante

Yes one of the most engaging of all chamber pieces I agree. But surely the first of many favourites for you going forward. Try Franck's Violin Sonata, stay with it all through.


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## Skakner

I think that it was either an early Beethoven Trio or a Brahms Quartet, both with Beaux Arts Trio, that made me further explorer the genre.


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## eljr

I have no clue what it was but when I was in college.... I had never been exposed to classical music at all, of any kind. 

As I said, I don't know what was played but I sat in the school theater, I still don't recall how or why I stumbled in, and a chamber orchestra came out and played. I was completely mesmerized... blown away at the sounds. 

I loved it beyond words.


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## SearsPoncho

There is a very good recording of the Dvorak Piano Quintet you mentioned by the Guarneri Quartet with Arthur Rubenstein, and it's paired with Brahms' Piano Quintet. Both are great pieces. If you like the Dvorak, you should like the Brahms. I hope you slowly explore more chamber music repertoire; there's little to no difference between chamber music and symphonic music, other than the amount of musicians involved. A Classical era piece sounds like a Classical era piece and is composed using the exact same forms as symphonies, concertos and piano sonatas, such as sonata-allegro, binary, scherzo/menuet +trios, rondo, etc. Same for Romantic, Atonal, Dodecaphonic, etc. This is why some chamber pieces have been orchestrated, such as Bernstein's recording of late Beethoven's string quartets using the Vienna Philharmonic. An additional benefit to chamber music is that you hear every single musician clearly.


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## jegreenwood

Brahms Piano Trio No. 1 by Istomin/Stern/Rose. Part of a vinyl box set, which also included the Archduke and the Schubert Trio in E Flat. These became the second and third pieces I enjoyed. It took some time before I began to enjoy the Mendelssohn D Minor Trio which was also included.


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## Open Book

jegreenwood said:


> Brahms Piano Trio No. 1 by Istomin/Stern/Rose. Part of a vinyl box set, which also included the Archduke and the Schubert Trio in E Flat. These became the second and third pieces I enjoyed. It took some time before I began to enjoy the Mendelssohn D Minor Trio which was also included.


The Brahms trio grabs you right from the beginning just like the Dvorak quintet. At least for me.


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## SearsPoncho

In addition to the excellent suggestions already mentioned, my #1 and #2 recommendations to start your journey into the world of chamber music would be: 1) Beethoven's "Spring" and "Kreutzer" Violin Sonatas (actually sonatas for violin and piano) and 2) Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" String Quartet. These are works most people love on first listen. Perlman and Askenazy are as good as it gets for the Beethoven, and just about every recording of the Schubert seems to do the job. 

As usual, my advice would be to slow down. Way down. If you've heard 40-50 chamber music pieces, but are still ambivalent, then you may be listening to too much. I don't think I heard 40-50 chamber music compositions until I was at least 20 years into my classical music journey, and I always liked chamber music. My first chamber music recording was Beethoven's Op.132 quartet. It remains one of my top 2 or 3 pieces of music in any genre. Cheers, and enjoy the journey.


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## jegreenwood

I don't think anyone's mentioned Schubert's Trout Quintet yet. That was one of the first pieces for me, and frequently the starting place I suggest to others, especially the video version with Perlman, Du Pre, Barenboim, Zuckerman and Zubin Mehta.


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## Varick

SearsPoncho said:


> In addition to the excellent suggestions already mentioned, my #1 and #2 recommendations to start your journey into the world of chamber music would be: 1) Beethoven's "Spring" and "Kreutzer" Violin Sonatas (actually sonatas for violin and piano) and 2) Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" String Quartet. These are works most people love on first listen. Perlman and Askenazy are as good as it gets for the Beethoven, and just about every recording of the Schubert seems to do the job.
> 
> As usual, my advice would be to slow down. Way down. If you've heard 40-50 chamber music pieces, but are still ambivalent, then you may be listening to too much. I don't think I heard 40-50 chamber music compositions until I was at least 20 years into my classical music journey, and I always liked chamber music. My first chamber music recording was Beethoven's Op.132 quartet. It remains one of my top 2 or 3 pieces of music in any genre. Cheers, and enjoy the journey.


I do enjoy the Spring & Kreutzer Sonata a great deal. To clarify, I am 50 years old. The 40-50 (estimated) chamber pieces I have heard have been through the decades since college. It's not like I just listened to that many in the past month or so. 3 or 4 here, 2 or 3 there. I have a bunch in my collection still from when I was in classical music management. Every now and then I revisit them. I just happened to be listening to Dvorak's Piano Concerto (Richter) and the next two pieces that came after that were the two Piano Quintets in A.

As I type this I am now listening to Dvorak's Piano Trio in E Minor, Op. 90 "Dumky" by Trio Fontenay (I used to manage them). And it is rather enjoyable.

V


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## Olias

Mozart's Quintet for Piano and Winds K452. Desert island music for me.


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## Animal the Drummer

jegreenwood said:


> I don't think anyone's mentioned Schubert's Trout Quintet yet. That was one of the first pieces for me, and frequently the starting place I suggest to others, especially the video version with Perlman, Du Pre, Barenboim, Zuckerman and Zubin Mehta.


Wonderful stuff. I also particularly like Beethoven's "Archduke" Trio from Barenboim, Du Pré and Zuckerman:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccNDjlwv45g


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## whispering

Hello

Have you considered Schumann’s Piano Quintet? Some CDs have this paired with the Dvorak piano quintet you like.


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## Varick

whispering said:


> Hello
> 
> Have you considered Schumann's Piano Quintet? Some CDs have this paired with the Dvorak piano quintet you like.


I have that Quintet in E Flat, Op. 44. But I have it with Martha Argerich on the piano. The Dvorak Quintet I have is off a 51 Disc Box Set I have of Richter. Thank you, I will check it out though.

V


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## Brahmsian Colors

Brahms Clarinet Quintet


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## Open Book

More Dvorak you might like.
Cleveland Quartet plays Dvorak 'American' Quartet, Op. 96.


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## Varick

Open Book said:


> More Dvorak you might like.
> Cleveland Quartet plays Dvorak 'American' Quartet, Op. 96.


Yes, that is a wonderful piece. The second mvmt is just gorgeous. I am finding that being a pianist, I am really enjoying Piano Trios and Piano Quintets and such more than straight up string quartets and ensembles. But this is very nice. Time to look into more Dvorak Quartets. Thank you.

V


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## MarkW

Go to concerts. Nothing exposes you to chamber music in a way that maximizes your interest, broadens your horizons, and makes you want to hear pieces again than hearing them live. A recording registers so much more if you have already experienced it in person.


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## Open Book

Varick said:


> Yes, that is a wonderful piece. The second mvmt is just gorgeous. I am finding that being a pianist, I am really enjoying Piano Trios and Piano Quintets and such more than straight up string quartets and ensembles. But this is very nice. Time to look into more Dvorak Quartets. Thank you.
> 
> V


I like this performance, it brings out an American quality in some of the themes in a way that many other performers can't match. Especially in the second movement.

I have had a hard time with chamber music myself. Strings alone were the most challenging, thorny. Piano and strings is easier, a more inviting format. It was a struggle, but now some all-string chamber works are some of my favorite music.


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## Varick

Open Book said:


> I like this performance, it brings out an American quality in some of the themes in a way that many other performers can't match. Especially in the second movement.
> 
> I have had a hard time with chamber music myself. Strings alone were the most challenging, thorny. Piano and strings is easier, a more inviting format. It was a struggle, but now some all-string chamber works are some of my favorite music.


Yes, I ordered that piece the other day. I am looking forward to having it permanently in my collection. It is by far one of the, if not THE most enjoyable string quartet I have ever heard. Again, Thank you.

V


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## Phineas

MarkW said:


> Go to concerts. Nothing exposes you to chamber music in a way that maximizes your interest, broadens your horizons, and makes you want to hear pieces again than hearing them live. A recording registers so much more if you have already experienced it in person.


What concerts? All the ones at the local U and basically all concerts of all types have been cancelled if not banned for most of a year here. I don't expect any to start back up until about a year from now at the earliest. Even then, they might involve intolerable behavior restrictions. I guess at least chamber music venues are mostly schools and churches so they are less likely to all go permanently out of business...


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## Flamme

I think it was this...


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## Phineas

Open Book said:


> I have had a hard time with chamber music myself. Strings alone were the most challenging, thorny. Piano and strings is easier, a more inviting format. It was a struggle, but now some all-string chamber works are some of my favorite music.


Is this common on the forum or maybe in the classical fan world in general? I just joined here because I basically know no one IRL who is into classical, and I am noticing it seems like most people are all about the symphonies.

I am completely the opposite, almost to the point of the fewer instruments the better. In fact, the spark that renewed my interest in classical a few years ago was wanting to hear more stripped-down music with cellos and violins.

Is it unusual to be so chamber-centric?


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## Open Book

Phineas said:


> Is this common on the forum or maybe in the classical fan world in general? I just joined here because I basically know no one IRL who is into classical, and I am noticing it seems like most people are all about the symphonies.
> 
> I am completely the opposite, almost to the point of the fewer instruments the better. In fact, the spark that renewed my interest in classical a few years ago was wanting to hear more stripped-down music with cellos and violins.
> 
> Is it unusual to be so chamber-centric?


There's quite a variety of people on this forum, some very sophisticated and musical (not me). All kinds of classical music is appreciated here. There are even a few here who like nothing but contemporary music or only medieval/Renaissance music.

Whether they become regular listeners or not, I would guess that many people are drawn to classical music for the first time after hearing something for full symphony orchestra. A full orchestra with all the variety of sounds and color makes a bigger splash than a chamber grouping.

For me, compared to orchestral pieces, chamber pieces have been harder to "get". I think it's that all the parts can carry equal weight and that my focus has to keep shifting as each instrument comes into the foreground or recedes with others taking their place. Also that there's usually less variety of instrumentation than in an orchestra.

But some chamber pieces are incredibly rewarding once I do get them. There's nothing like watching and hearing the synergy of really great chamber music-making.


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## SearsPoncho

Phineas said:


> Is this common on the forum or maybe in the classical fan world in general? I just joined here because I basically know no one IRL who is into classical, and I am noticing it seems like most people are all about the symphonies.
> 
> I am completely the opposite, almost to the point of the fewer instruments the better. In fact, the spark that renewed my interest in classical a few years ago was wanting to hear more stripped-down music with cellos and violins.
> 
> Is it unusual to be so chamber-centric?


No, it's not. For the first 15-17 years of my classical music journey I was almost exclusively "symphonic-centric." The last 15 years I have been almost exclusively "chamber-centric," with a big dose of solo piano music. I've actually had to make an effort this year to get back into orchestral music, but my inclination is almost always to reach for a chamber music recording first. I do believe that what you described is somewhat common, at least to those new to classical music. Symphonic music is frequently the medium in which many discover classical music, such as the symphonies and concertos of Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart and Tchaikovsky. These are the works which are used in popular culture, commercials and movies. I believe the classic Disney movie Fantasia only used orchestral pieces. You get the point. What I don't understand, and maybe someone can enlighten me, is why a much smaller group of people are attracted to chamber music. It's usually played in churches and small halls, with the exception of the superstar ensembles (Stern, Ma, Laredo, Ax, Argerich, etc.) that can still book large venues. The music is composed by the same people who wrote those large symphonies, it uses the same forms (sonata-allegro, scherzo-trio, rondo, etc.) as the orchestral works, and the thematic material is usually not radically different in character.

To cut to the chase, I think it's just the volume of sound; the dynamic range is obviously larger with an orchestra and more likely to excite novices who need a big bang every now and then to keep them interested. I don't mean to disparage orchestral music because I love it and, as I said, most of the cds I purchased and concerts I attended during the first 15-17 years of my classical journey were orchestral.

Well, I guess it's not unusual to be chamber-centric (just check out the other threads here), it's just more common to be symphonic-centric.


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## ORigel

Schubert Trout Quintet (for obvious reasons)

Beethoven String Quartet no. 12 (the first movement begins with a hook)

Beethoven Grosse Fuge (It instantly became my favorite piece ever)


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## Phineas

I kind of thought the same thing about the symphonic music, because I was the same way the first time I was into classical, a couple of decades ago. I started with Beethoven symphonies, then started checking out lots of symphonic music. However, I also did some reading and quickly learned that string quartets were widely considered the real essence of a composer's ideas from Beethoven on, so then started collecting those. 

I still like the Beethoven symphonies and a few others, but I tend to prefer the period versions, especially Hogwood - partly because it seems more consistent with the character of all the Beethoven chamber music I've listened to. To me, Beethoven is more lively and nimble, no the slow majestic, huge sound contemporary orchestras seem to prefer. 

I spent over a decade listening to folk/country/americana music mostly, and I likewise preferred the "unplugged", stripped-down live versions. Unlike most people, I guess, I like to hear the details of the sound of individual acoustic instruments. To me, that all gets lost in the big symphonic sound, and the structure of the music itself is harder for me to hear and understand.


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## Phineas

As far as a recommendation for someone trying to get into string chamber music, I pick Schubert's Death and the Maiden quartet. It is probably my favorite quartet, or at least tied with all the middle and late Beethoven quartets. I think it has both accessibility, with catchy melodies, and polyphonic complexity similar to late Beethoven quartets.

Watching people play a quartet may help too. I find it adds something. This performance seems fine to me and is a good quality video. If you have access to everything, my go-to performance is the recording by Quartetto Italiano, but I haven't heard that many.






If you want an even more accessible intro to quartets and cellos, you might try something like Strung Out On OK Computer - Radiohead trascribed for quartet, or anything by 2Cellos, pop/rock transcribed for cellos, or a band called Apocalyptica, that plays Metallica transcribed for cellos.


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## Phineas

I replied to your post SearsPoncho, but I think it disappeared. Too long to rewrite, but basically, I was thinking along the same lines.


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## juliante

MarkW said:


> Go to concerts. Nothing exposes you to chamber music in a way that maximizes your interest, broadens your horizons, and makes you want to hear pieces again than hearing them live. A recording registers so much more if you have already experienced it in person.


This is very true for me. Whilst tricky right now, this piece of advice is good. Chamber music is ultimately a conversation between the players, and _seeing_ this dynamic whilst hearing it live certainly increased my appreciation greatly, as Mark said. (Get as close as you can to the stage as well!)


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## Varick

Well, I found another Chamber piece that really rang my bell: Tchaikovsky's String Sextet In D Minor, Op. 70, "Souvenir De Florence." It is just a spectacular piece. Although it's only six instruments it has the feel and the energy of a much larger ensemble. I just listened to it twice in a row. Absolutely fantastic piece of music. It had me riveted from start to finish.

V


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## Merl

I'm biased as I blog quartet reviews and especially adore Mendelssohn, Dvorak and Beethoven string quartets but if you want something with a fuller sound than a quartet you maybe should try Mendelssohn's op.20 Octet. It's brilliant piece and to think it was created by a 16 year old is simply mind-blowing.






Mendelssohn and Dvorak were masters of chamber work, in my book.


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## Kreisler jr

I also overall prefer string quartets but if someone wants a larger/fuller/different sound, one can hardly go wrong with anything sextet upwards or most piano quartets/quintets from Schubert onwards. Schuberts string quintet and last two quartets (d minor, G major) are also rather "orchestral". And while not orchestral the quintets for piano and winds by Beethoven and especially Mozart mentioned/linked in #13 above) are also very appealing if one likes the colors of woodwinds.

Some more larger scale or "fat" or colorful sounding chamber pieces

Beethoven septet
Schubert octet
Spohr septet, octet, nonet, "double quartets"
"wind serenades" by Mozart and Dvorak (ca. 8-13 players)
Brahms 2 sextets, piano quintet, 3 piano quartets
Dvorak string sextet
Dohnanyi sextet (horn, clarinet, violin, viola, cello, piano)
Prokofiev quintet op. 39 (oboe, clarinet, violin, viola, bass)
Martinu nonet, string sextet


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## hammeredklavier

Phineas said:


> the fewer instruments the better


You must be a Cage fan then


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## Varick

Merl said:


> I'm biased as I blog quartet reviews and especially adore Mendelssohn, Dvorak and Beethoven string quartets but if you want something with a fuller sound than a quartet you maybe should try Mendelssohn's op.20 Octet. It's brilliant piece and to think it was created by a 16 year old is simply mind-blowing.
> 
> Mendelssohn and Dvorak were masters of chamber work, in my book.


Yes, I was recently on a big Mendelssohn kick largely brought on by my interest in Elijah. I listened to both recordings I have of the Octet (Janáček Quartet & The Ensemble with Jascha Heifetz). I heard many great things about it and structurally I don't have a bad thing to say about it. It's truly a great piece of music particularly when taken into context that a 16 year old wrote it. However, it didn't quite grab me like the Dvorak Piano Quintet and Tchaikovsky's Sextet. I certainly didn't dislike the piece, but it didn't move me deeply. I will revisit it again soon. I can't count how many times a certain piece didn't click until the 5th, 8th, 10th, etc., time I heard it.

I guess that's what makes a ball game.

V


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## Varick

Kreisler jr said:


> I also overall prefer string quartets but if someone wants a larger/fuller/different sound, one can hardly go wrong with anything sextet upwards or most piano quartets/quintets from Schubert onwards. Schuberts string quintet and last two quartets (d minor, G major) are also rather "orchestral". And while not orchestral the quintets for piano and winds by Beethoven and especially Mozart mentioned/linked in #13 above) are also very appealing if one likes the colors of woodwinds.
> 
> Some more larger scale or "fat" or colorful sounding chamber pieces
> 
> Beethoven septet
> Schubert octet
> Spohr septet, octet, nonet, "double quartets"
> "wind serenades" by Mozart and Dvorak (ca. 8-13 players)
> Brahms 2 sextets, piano quintet, 3 piano quartets
> Dvorak string sextet
> Dohnanyi sextet (horn, clarinet, violin, viola, cello, piano)
> Prokofiev quintet op. 39 (oboe, clarinet, violin, viola, bass)
> Martinu nonet, string sextet


Thank you for the list, I will certainly explore. I'm sure I have most of these pieces already.:tiphat:

V


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