# Ripping A CD Collection



## brotagonist

I can't believe I would ever have thought about this  but, since I do have a pretty good sized collection now (it could approach 1000 discs this year or next, if I continue at the rate I have been buying), I was thinking that the value of my investment might make it worthwhile to back it up (as lossless FLAC files? WAV files?).

I'm not at the committed stage, just getting some ideas. Such a project would be monumental 

Is there such a thing as a bulk ripper? Or, is there a service that allows one to legally obtain ripped copies of albums one already owns on CD?

How would one store the files? How much space would a collection of roughly 1000 CDs (approximately 1000 hours of music) require in a lossless format?


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## gHeadphone

Id love to find a bulk way but ive been using EAC to rip them 1 at a time


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## Guest

When you buy a CD on Amazon, you automatically get the mp3, which I think lives in a cloud. I tried to say that like I knew what I'm talking about.

A bulk ripper is a premium rate personal trainer. A thing like a Brennan has enough space for 5000 CDs. Sold by Richer Sounds.


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## D Smith

I use ALAC when importing into iTunes which I think is similar to FLAC. A full CD averages 350-360mb after it's imported. So you can do the math from there with your own collection for a rough estimate.


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## bigshot

There are a few considerations to ripping CDs... how you are going to use the rips matters. Obviously you want optimal sound quality, but if you plan to use the rips on portable devices like phones or digital audio players, file size is a consideration too. If you are just putting it on a hard drive to play on your home stereo, FLAC or ALAC are all you need. (WAV or AIFF are overkill.) If you plan to play them on portable devices, use a lossy format. MP3 LAME 320 VBR and AAC 256 VBR are audibly transparent. They sound exactly like the original CD but have much smaller file sizes than FLAC or ALAC. I use AAC 256 VBR on both my home stereo and portable, and the sound is flawless.

Another consideration is tagging. To be able to sort your music and pull it up in searches, you need to make sure the tags are organized. I would recommend not straying too far from the established format that comes up from the Gracenote database. It's easier to just clean up the occasional mis-tag in Gracenote than it is to start from scratch with your own system. Tagging is the most time consuming part of the process.

The other consideration for classical music is joining tracks... As you rip, you can merge multiple tracks into a single file. This is very handy for merging all four movements in a symphony into a single unit. That way, if you hit random shuffle, it won't come up with the third movement of a piano concerto and follow it up with the second movement of an unrelated symphony. Each work will play through uninterrupted from beginning to end before switching to the next work.

I've found that a file based music library has totally changed the way I listen to music. I listen to more music. I can find music easier. And I get more out of the music I listen to.


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## TurnaboutVox

brotagonist said:


> I can't believe I would ever have thought about this  but, since I do have a pretty good sized collection now (it could approach 1000 discs this year or next, if I continue at the rate I have been buying), I was thinking that the value of my investment might make it worthwhile to back it up (as lossless FLAC files? WAV files?).
> 
> I'm not at the committed stage, just getting some ideas. Such a project would be monumental
> 
> Is there such a thing as a bulk ripper? Or, is there a service that allows one to legally obtain ripped copies of albums one already owns on CD?
> 
> How would one store the files? How much space would a collection of roughly 1000 CDs (approximately 1000 hours of music) require in a lossless format?


This seems like a good idea: it certainly makes the music very accessible and the files are quickly transferable between PCs across my home wi-fi network. I can also pull up information about my CDs very rapidly for use in the 'current listening' thread, an unanticipated bonus when I started this a couple of years ago. Some people also make the point that 10% of CDs are expected to fail after 25 years of life (apparently).

I'd guess I had about 600 CDs now. I spent 6 months ripping the 300 or so I had to start with and I've been ripping new acquisitions as I get them. I use EAC and my newest PC has a fast CD drive which accurately rips a CD in 10-15 minutes. 1000 700 MB CD discs will require about 400 GB storage space as lossless FLAC files. I find that one CD produces between 350 and 450 MB of FLAC files. I'm hoping I have sufficient space for expansion to meet my foreseeable future needs.

They're stored on a 2TB hard drive in one PC and a 1TB hard drive in my office PC, and backed up on a 1 TB external hard drive. The 1 TB machines are nowhere near capacity after storing my collection.

I've been using Foobar2000 very happily for playback these last 2 years.

One problem that I can anticipate you having with bulk ripping would be the meta-data. Although the free metadata service you get with EAC is good, it is not always completely accurate, and in any case I have a 'house style' which I prefer to use with all my discs to ensure consistency in the way things appear on the foobar interface (and I may spend the rest of my life perfecting it!)


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## brotagonist

+bigshot, +TurnaboutVox I was contemplating just keeping the rips as an insurance backup. Tagging, meta-data, merging tracks... oh, my Lord!  I had mp3s for a while back at the start of the century and I recall the nightmare. Maybe I'll just forget it :lol: There is the advantage of my portable player, though: it plays mp3, wma and wav. It would be kind of nice to have a master pool with which to stock the player.

+dogen Yes, that is one advantage with paying Amazon's premium price. Unfortunately, the CD+mp3 deal doesn't apply to the Marketplace. My collection would be half the size it is, had I purchased from Amazon directly


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## Albert7

I hate ripping CD's... In fact, I've switched to iTunes and Amazon mp3.

I would pay someone to do it for me if I could afford it.


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## brotagonist

^ That is the obvious other option. Just sign up for a streaming service that has all of your favourite albums and everything else you could ever dream of wanting. Voilà! Your collection is secured. This might be the most practical?


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> ^ That is the obvious other option. Just sign up for a streaming service that has all of your favourite albums and everything else you could ever dream of wanting. Voilà! Your collection is secured. This might be the most practical?


Yep, I use Google Music which is the best streaming service. No fees to play your own tunes .


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## brotagonist

Albert7 said:


> No fees to play your own tunes .


Do tell! But you still have to rip them all 

I know you have iTune files, but I have CDs... and I don't want to give them up! I was merely thinking of finding a way to secure my investment. An added bonus, using rips as insurance, is that I could use them portably, but I barely ever do that. When I'm out, I'm busy and don't have time to listen... except a little bit in the car, but I don't really, _really_ *hear* anything, like I do when I'm home listening to the stereo. Oh, and then there's the annual vacation. Let me see, I last took one about 4 years ago


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> Do tell! But you still have to rip them all
> 
> I know you have iTune files, but I have CDs... and I don't want to give them up! I was merely thinking of finding a way to secure my investment. An added bonus, using rips as insurance, is that I could use them portably, but I barely ever do that. When I'm out, I'm busy and don't have time to listen... except a little bit in the car, but I don't really, _really_ *hear* anything, like I do when I'm home listening to the stereo. Oh, and then there's the annual vacation. Let me see, I last took one about 4 years ago


Well here is a breakdown of how I use Google Music

1) first account-- Google Music takes up all of my iTunes purchases and it reads all of my AAC files

2) second account-- my dad's music that I backed up for him using CD rips into 256kbps AAC in iTunes

3) third account-- my CD rips... Google Music actually transcodes from ALAC and FLAC into mp3 format in Google music for streaming.

My recommended path:

1) rip all of your CD's. It took me about 6 months to rip 1050 CD's and I have around 200 discs left to rip.

2) Upload all of your ripped CD's (easiest if you rip into 320kbps mp3 or AAC in iTunes) into Google Music

3) Stream your own music from Google Music into car or smartphone (best way) or desktop/laptop for enjoyable listening.

Sorry about the ripping process. Easier is to buy your music from iTunes and then upload accordingly. I now only collect vinyl (for album art) and iTunes. CD's are going to be basement bargain if I can pay at most 50-1 dollar per disc from our library sales. 

I hope that this helps.


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## brotagonist

Thanks, Albert7. You know, it might be worth it. Like you said, it could take many, many months to do. I'm going to have a look at my Google Music account and upload a ripped CD and see how it goes. I will keep your guide handy.

I'm old school and I still like my CDs at home. While many vociferously disagree, I still think there is a big plus in audio fidelity with a CD and the stereo over digital files, so I'm sticking with CDs. But, the ability to access anything I own anywhere is a benefit that has lots of pluses. Free streaming of your own uploads, too. Hmmm.

So, you have numerous accounts. Is that because there is a limit on how much you can upload? Does it cost extra to have numerous accounts? When you're streaming, does the playback system switch to files from all accounts, or can you play from only one account at a time?

And how do you deal with naming the files and filling in the tags? Does Google do that automatically, by, perhaps, reading a fingerprint of the file and automatically determining what it is, or do you have to put all of the metadata in manually? And what about movements? Do you have to make a concatenated file, or does Google recognize movements?


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## Becca

A 2TB disk is great ... until it fails or gets a bad spot. There is also an unanswered question of the practical lifetime of a disk, one cloud provider states that 22% of the disks they buy die within 4 years. You can use some form of redundancy but that has its own issues, not least being cost and power consumption. You can move everything onto a cloud service and many offer some free amount but I imagine that most classical collectors will rapidly exceed that, so you are paying not only for storage but also for data download every time that you listen to something.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is not doable - I do have quite a bit on disk - just that it is no panacea. So we keep our CDs, but what happens as technology changes and industry moves onto The Next Big Thing? I am depressed to think about how many 7" open reel tapes and cartridge tapes I have which are essentially unplayable any longer


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> Thanks, Albert7. You know, it might be worth it. Like you said, it could take many, many months to do. I'm going to have a look at my Google Music account and upload a ripped CD and see how it goes. I will keep your guide handy.
> 
> I'm old school and I still like my CDs at home. While many vociferously disagree, I still think there is a big plus in audio fidelity with a CD and the stereo over digital files, so I'm sticking with CDs. But, the ability to access anything I own anywhere is a benefit that has lots of pluses. Free streaming of your own uploads, too. Hmmm.
> 
> So, you have numerous accounts. Is that because there is a limit on how much you can upload? Does it cost extra to have numerous accounts? When you're streaming, does the playback system switch to files from all accounts, or can you play from only one account at a time?
> 
> Aand how do you deal with naming the files and filling in the tags? Does Google do that automatically, by, perhaps, reading a fingerprint of the file and automatically determining what it is, or do you have to put all of the metadata in manually? And what about movements? Do you have to make a concatenated file, or does Google recognize movements?


I am both old school and new school and very very lazy.

iTunes is a blessing for me because I can pack lots of music on my iPod classic.

and

VINYL is the best because it has huge album art.  I do like CD's sometimes but again I stopped buying those when iTunes rolled into my life last year.


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## brotagonist

Absolutely, Becca! I am acutely aware of all of these concerns. Hard drives fail. Discs are said to have a limited lifetime. Paying for storage (the cloud company) and paying again for streaming (the telephone company). A company going out of business. And The Next Big Thing. All of it.

That's a big reason why I am committed to hard copies, to my CDs.


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## Triplets

I have had music dissap ear in I tunes that I know I ripped. Where it went, God knows, and he ain't revealing it to me.
It has turned me off burning CDs to a hard drive.
One issue that no one addressed is using a PC vs a dedicated music server that bypasses having to have a computer in the system. Someone mentioned the Brennan. Sony, NAD Naim and other companies have also launched dedicated gear for this. It is unclear to me if such equipment would solve some of these issues. They may just be PC in sheeps clothing


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## Art Rock

Ripping is a very time consuming option. Therefore do make a back-up of the ripped files on a separate hard drive. I know you still have the original CD's, but this is not an exercise you want to go through again (as I discovered when I had to re-rip a few hundred selected CD's from my collection after my computer crashed).


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> Absolutely, Becca! I am acutely aware of all of these concerns. Hard drives fail. Discs are said to have a limited lifetime. Paying for storage (the cloud company) and paying again for streaming (the telephone company). A company going out of business. And The Next Big Thing. All of it.
> 
> That's a big reason why I am committed to hard copies, to my CDs.


Also I back up my iTunes library and CD rips onto 2 external hard drives, 2 laptops, and 2 desktops ... Very reduced chance of failures.

And CD's to fail over time too. Degradation of CD's can happen in fact.


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## bigshot

brotagonist said:


> +bigshot, +TurnaboutVox I was contemplating just keeping the rips as an insurance backup. Tagging, meta-data, merging tracks... oh, my Lord!  I had mp3s for a while back at the start of the century and I recall the nightmare. Maybe I'll just forget it


There really isn't much of a reason to back up CDs unless you are planning to keep the library of rips off site. The real advantage of ripping CDs is the flexibility in accessing your library. It's like the difference between having a hundred volume encyclopedia on your shelf and just going to Google and typing in "main export of Brazil".

When your music is organized in a digital library, you can immediately compare different performances of the same work, listen to a composer's work chronologically, or even set up smart playlists to automatically select tracks based on any criteria you want. Before I went to a media server, I would bend my neck sideways and squint down shelves of CDs and DVDs searching for what I was looking for. At the end of an afternoon of listening, I would end up with a stack of CDs I would have to refile. Now, I just sit down and listen controlling everything from my iPhone. The end result is that I listen to music more often. I am much more aware of differences in interpretation between performances. And I end up listening to a much wider swath of my collection than before.

I am pretty much caught up with ripping music. And I have done the same for movies. Now I am working on my collection of TV shows on DVD. I can turn on any TV in the house and find a Netflix style menu of posters for films and TV shows organized by genre, complete with synopsis and cross linked director and actor credits. The disks are in boxes in the garage as back up.

Now I have room on the bookshelf for books!


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## bigshot

brotagonist said:


> I still think there is a big plus in audio fidelity with a CD and the stereo over digital files


A CD contains digital files. It's just an optical disk instead of a hard drive. The sound is still on digital files.


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## bigshot

Albert7 said:


> Also I back up my iTunes library and CD rips onto 2 external hard drives, 2 laptops, and 2 desktops ... Very reduced chance of failures.


My media server consists of four Drobo disk arrays containing four 4 TB drives in each. Since it is a disk array, if any single drive fails, I just replace it with a new blank one and it recreates the data from backups stored on the rest of the array. I don't have to bother organizing the backups myself. It's all automatic. The only problem is if the house burns down, but I am working on backing up to bare SATA drives for an off site backup. With 64 TB of data, that takes a little while to organize. But I got a handy little dock that I can just plug a bare SATA drive into. Makes it very inexpensive because I can get bare 4 TB SATA drives for around $140.


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## brotagonist

bigshot said:


> Now I have room on the bookshelf for books!


Books! Books? You still have books?  :lol:

In any case, it is going to be a very, very slow process, if I do digitize my collection, but I'm with Becca: I want my hard copy. I certainly do see the advantage of portability and playlists and streaming and all the rest of it with digital files, however.

My main thought was simply to protect my investment from loss, damage, wear, whatever.


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## Albert7

Actually, I have done the reverse. I have bought iTunes albums and then re-created CD's using my iTunes purchases.  Very easy to do.

Plus I can make multiple backups on CD-R's for my iTunes albums as well.


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## brotagonist

^ I had just had that very thought! My CDs could be considered to be the backup and I could rip lossless copies that I will use.

It's still a heck of a lot of work and will be a long, long time to put into practice, if I should do so. I admit, it appeals... but tagging  I think it would take me very little to put it off.


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> ^ I had just had that very thought! My CDs could be considered to be the backup and I could rip lossless copies that I will use.
> 
> It's still a heck of a lot of work and will be a long, long time to put into practice, if I should do so. I admit, it appeals... but tagging  I think it would take me very little to put it off.


My stepdad didn't want to rip his CD's so basically he paid me to do it actually.  $100/month to do it.


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## SixFootScowl

Ripping works best if you don't have to do a big backlog. My worst ripping nightmare was Microsoft Windows Media Player, but now i am pretty happy ripping with Asunder. When I got my 87 CD Complete Beethoven Set my son also got the same set. He ripped them all and I just copied the electronic files--now that is my kind of bulk ripping.

But if you have thousands of CDs, I would not try to rip them all. Rip your favorites then only rip the others if they become higher on your list or perhaps if you spin them to play them then rip them at that time.


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## Albert7

Florestan said:


> Ripping works best if you don't have to do a big backlog. My worst ripping nightmare was Microsoft Windows Media Player, but now i am pretty happy ripping with Asunder. When I got my 87 CD Complete Beethoven Set my son also got the same set. He ripped them all and I just copied the electronic files--now that is my kind of bulk ripping.
> 
> But if you have thousands of CDs, I would not try to rip them all. Rip your favorites then only rip the others if they become higher on your list or perhaps if you spin them to play them then rip them at that time.


Indeed... i now made it a policy that anytime I buy a new CD, it gets instantly ripped.  So no waiting.


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## bigshot

brotagonist said:


> Books! Books? You still have books?











Oh yeah. This is my art and cartooning collection on the kitchen wall. There are books in here that date back to the mid-19th century. There's many more in the theater. Just covered another wall this weekend! I use bookcases as room treatment for my sound system. They are really good at killing reflected sound!

Over the past few years, I've ripped close to 10,000 CDs. It isn't that difficult. I got a blu-ray burner that rips faster than DVD ones do and I connected it to my work computer. I work online most of the time, so I just rip in the background and pop a new disk in every once in a while. On a weekend, I can rip over 50 CDs in an afternoon. When I'm done, I just push the rips across the network to my media server in the theater and leave it transferring as I sleep. I wake up in the morning and do it all again. It really isn't that difficult.

Lately, I've been digging into my DVD collection and doing the same. I found software that will rip DVDs to lossless MKV files, so the original DVDs can go to the garage too.


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## Albert7

I have tons of books too. Mostly art books and yes, those can't be in e-book format. So old school for those.


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## brotagonist

Florestan said:


> ...if you spin them to play them then rip them at that time.


That is EXACTLY what I have been looking for for years! Is there a player that will create a rip while you are playing the disc?

But mine will NEVER go into the garbage pail. They are my insurance.


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## Genoveva

brotagonist said:


> That is EXACTLY what I have been looking for for years! Is there a player that will create a rip while you are playing the disc?
> 
> But mine will NEVER go into the garbage pail. They are my insurance.


Here's the way do it:

1. Download "Audacity" and set it up on our computer. Go to Edit/Preferences/Libraries. Download Lame MP3 and FFMpeg.

2. Set up Audacity for stereo recording, WAV 16 bit PCM, 44.1 khz. This is Red Book generate, the same as as the CD original.

3. Place CD in DVD drawer. I'm assuming you have a decent quality DVD player on your PC. You might blow out the cobwebs before trying this, if it hasn't been used much.

4. Start Audacity recording and then start the CD. You may need to adjust the recording input level, by not allowing the maximum record level to get too close to the limit shown on the register.

5. When the CD is finished stop Audacity from recording. Next step is to trim up the recording by adjusting the run-in time and gaps between movements. Do this by using cut, generate silence etc.

6. Once you're happy with way the recording looks, adjust the output level by going to Effect/Amplify. Select a value of about 1 or 2 for "new peak amplitude", and then OK it. This operation will only change the volume uniformly across the whole work, and nothing else. Some experimenation may be required to select a suitable value for different types of material. I use a lower value for solo instrument works than orchestral.

7. Go to File/export audio. Select whatever format you fancy for storing the recorded file. I use MP3 320 kbps CBR. Enter the file destination folder and OK.

8. Assuming you have selected to export as MP3, then an excellent file tagger is Mp3Tag. This will allow you to complete fields for whatever items you may wish to use, eg Composer, Filemame, Artist, Conductor, Track Number, Date of recording, Album. It needs a bit of practice to set this up properly, but if you get this far and need further help just say so.

...

If the above sounds complex, it isn't once you get the hang of it.


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## Genoveva

brotagonist said:


> That is EXACTLY what I have been looking for for years! Is there a player that will create a rip while you are playing the disc?
> 
> But mine will NEVER go into the garbage pail. They are my insurance.


Here's the way I sometimes do it, especially for discs that contain material by different composers, or for discs that contain several different works by the same composer. I find it far more convenient to have works filed by composer and genre rather than in whatever manner the record companies choose to place them on CDs.

1. Download "Audacity" and set it up on our computer. Go to Edit/Preferences/Libraries. Download Lame MP3 and FFMpeg.

2. Set up Audacity for stereo recording, WAV 16 bit PCM, 44.1 kHz. This is Red Book equivalent and will generate a recording, which in principle should be the same quality as the CD original.

3. Place CD in the PC's DVD drawer. I am assuming you have a decent quality DVD player on your PC. If it hasn't been used much lately you might blow out the cobwebs out before using it, by buying a CD lens cleaner and an air duster.

4. Start Audacity recording and then start the CD. You may need to adjust the recording input level, by not allowing the maximum record level to get too close to the limit shown on the recording level meter.

5. When the CD is finished stop Audacity recording. The next step is to trim up the recording by adjusting the run-in time and any gaps between movements, etc. Do this by using cut, generate silence etc.

6. Once you are happy with way the recording looks in terms of time gaps, adjust the output level by going to Effect/Amplify. Select a value of about 1 or 2 for "new peak amplitude", and then OK it. This operation will only change the volume uniformly across the whole work, and nothing else. Some experimentation may be required to select a suitable value for different types of material. I use a lower value for solo instrument works than orchestral.

7. Go to File/export audio. Select whatever format you fancy for storing the recorded file. There will a very wide choice available, including Flac if you want it. I use MP3 320 kbps CBR because it has widely used ad compatible with many different players and hardware, and sounds fine to me. Enter the file destination folder and OK. You can select individual parts of the recording if you wish to do, and file each separately.

8. You then need to tag the files. There is a facility within Audacity to do this but I don't use it. Assuming you have selected to export files in the MP3 format, then an excellent file tagger is Mp3Tag. It's free and is easily downloaded. This software will allow you to complete fields for whatever items you may wish to use, e.g. Composer, Filename, Artist, Conductor, Track Number, Date of recording, Album. This procedure needs a bit of practice to do it quickly.

9. If the above sounds complex, it isn't once you get the hang of it.


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## bigshot

brotagonist said:


> That is EXACTLY what I have been looking for for years! Is there a player that will create a rip while you are playing the disc?


There are auto rippers, but the problem is the tags. Gracenote isn't foolproof.

http://www.amazon.com/Acronova-Nimb...qid=1429737322&sr=8-1&keywords=auto+cd+ripper


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## bigshot

Genoveva said:


> Here's the way I sometimes do it, especially for discs that contain material by different composers, or for discs that contain several different works by the same composer.


What is the benefit of recapturing the CD when you can just rip the files right off the disk as is and not have to re-encode them?


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## Albert7

bigshot said:


> What is the benefit of recapturing the CD when you can just rip the files right off the disk as is and not have to re-encode them?


Indeed... you can encode into ALAC and then just convert to FLAC or mp3 without ripping the disc twice or thrice. Easy peasy .


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## brotagonist

bigshot said:


> There are auto rippers, but the problem is the tags. Gracenote isn't foolproof.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Acronova-Nimb...qid=1429737322&sr=8-1&keywords=auto+cd+ripper


Wow! Those look fabulous... but for the prices!  For a small company, it would be okay.


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> Wow! Those look fabulous... but for the prices!  For a small company, it would be okay.


 Wow, I agree.

Still I prefer to buy from iTunes and save lots of time listening to music rather than ripping CD's. 

Very practical for me.


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## brotagonist

I gave up books. I'm not giving up CDs


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> I gave up books. I'm not giving up CDs


I gave up both.  Haven't given up sushi ever


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## brotagonist

^ I had some from a sushi stand in the supermarket that gave me the runs, bad, so I have lost my appetite for it somewhat. I'm very fond of cooked Japanese food, though.


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## Albert7

brotagonist said:


> ^ I had some from a sushi stand in the supermarket that gave me the runs, bad, so I have lost my appetite for it somewhat. I'm very fond of cooked Japanese food, though.


Yeah... I only get sushi from authorized places.... Street food works well for Mexican food however.

And hibachi steak is A1 sauce for me. Next date with a lady I go then I treat her to that unless she is vegetarian.


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## Genoveva

bigshot said:


> What is the benefit of recapturing the CD when you can just rip the files right off the disk as is and not have to re-encode them?


I was responding to a request for advice on how to reproduce a CD whilst listening to it, if that is what the person wishes to do for whatever reason they may have.

I wasn't suggesting that it is an alternative to ripping a CD. The latter is so easy and commonplace that I can't imagine why there is any need for a thread discussing this is such detail. All it seems to be achieving is making that procedure appear far more complicated than it really is. In any event, all the advice that may be required for a novice to rip a CD is amply provided in the "help" notes attaching to the relevant software, of which there are several varieties that are easily available.

There are two main advantages of the procedure I suggested. One is that it applies not just to copying CDs but also to extracting sound material from many other sources, e.g. a radio broadcast, a vinyl LP, or the sound from a video DVD. There are many situations when it may be required to record sound from existing media, and to be able to do so by producing a good copy.

Another advantage is that it facilitates the identification and correction of any problems there might be in the original recording. I mentioned one example, namely that of being able to check and adjust if required the recording level. A standard ripping procedure won't affect the recording level, and if it needs to be adjusted it has to be done subsequently by other means.

It is also possible to apply filters that may be needed to correct any defects, especially those in old recordings. Here, I agree, that things can become very complicated, and you need to know what you are doing before attempting this as it's very easy to mess up a recording in unskilled hands. But that's where the really interesting issues arise, instead of all the mainly elementary stuff being discussed in this thread.

I use the "Audacity" procedure primarily for producing copies of classical music radio broadcasts streamed at high bit rates, e.g. the BBC's Radio 3, both for live concerts ("Proms" and other special events) and sometimes for recording music put our on their playlist programmes. I have also used it to extract audio from some vinyl LPs and old VHS tapes.


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## brotagonist

Thanks, Genoveva. I am aware of Audacity, I know how to duplicate a CD (I would then have 2000 discs and the copies would have to be redone roughly very 10 years) and I know how to rip (probably the best option for my desire to back up, but I am still undecided about format, how to store, whether locally or in the cloud, etc., and there is the monumental task of tagging) 

So, just to clarify: I started the thread to get some ideas about how to secure my investment to protect against loss, damage, etc.

All of the ideas have been helpful. Thanks.


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## bigshot

The best way to provide against loss or damage is a rider on your homeowner's insurance. For a CD collection of around 1000 titles, I would bet that would be quite cheap. Easier than going to all the work of backing it all up.


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## bigshot

Genoveva said:


> Another advantage is that it facilitates the identification and correction of any problems there might be in the original recording. I mentioned one example, namely that of being able to check and adjust if required the recording level. A standard ripping procedure won't affect the recording level, and if it needs to be adjusted it has to be done subsequently by other means. It is also possible to apply filters that may be needed to correct any defects, especially those in old recordings.


I can totally see why you would capture radio broadcasts that don't exist as rippable digital files, but for a CD it makes absolutely no sense. Once you've ripped a disk, you can easily apply level changes or noise reduction filters in Audacity. And it would be a lot more accurate and quicker to modify a rip than capturing in real time first.


----------



## Genoveva

bigshot said:


> I can totally see why you would capture radio broadcasts that don't exist as rippable digital files, but for a CD it makes absolutely no sense. Once you've ripped a disk, you can easily apply level changes or noise reduction filters in Audacity. And it would be a lot more accurate and quicker to modify a rip than capturing in real time first.


I don't disagree. The procedure I described is second-best if a rippable file exists. But as I stressed previously it is a procedure if someone may prefer to produce an audio file whilst listening to it from the CD playing in real time, rather than by ripping it, which is what I believe the OP proposed at the point in the thread when I made the suggestion of using Audacity.


----------



## Genoveva

brotagonist said:


> Thanks, Genoveva. I am aware of Audacity, I know how to duplicate a CD (I would then have 2000 discs and the copies would have to be redone roughly very 10 years) and I know how to rip (probably the best option for my desire to back up, but I am still undecided about format, how to store, whether locally or in the cloud, etc., and there is the monumental task of tagging)
> 
> So, just to clarify: I started the thread to get some ideas about how to secure my investment to protect against loss, damage, etc.
> 
> All of the ideas have been helpful. Thanks.


What I was referring to had nothing to do with duplicating CDs but the creation of audio files for storage on a computer drive. This is because I had assumed (as it turns wrongly) that your main aim was to generate an alternative storage facility for your collection that could be used to play back easily from a computer based system.

However, if your aim is solely to protect your 1000 CD collection against loss/damage, then perhaps the creation of a duplicate set of CDs might not be a bad idea after all. All you need is a copy of something like "Exact Audio Copy", then tinker around with its various settings for optimal copying. The process would be expedited if you have a twin DVD capability on your PC.


----------



## brotagonist

No doubt, most here have encountered this conundrum  I think, Genoveva, that I have pretty much decided to back up using digital files, as they are more compact and give me the added bonuses of allowing me to access them from anywhere (if I upload to the cloud) and portability (by copying them to a portable device).

All methods have their pros and cons and none are without a HUGE amount of work. The storage drive is not infallible, either, so I would end up needing to back up the digital files, too, or else risk having to re-rip the whole collection  The entire project is snowballing into an ever bigger nightmare. I think I will likely just rip a few and upload them to Google and see how I take to it. It seems to be the easiest method that would meet my need for security and have some extra bonuses for me (see above).


----------



## Albert7

bigshot said:


> The best way to provide against loss or damage is a rider on your homeowner's insurance. For a CD collection of around 1000 titles, I would bet that would be quite cheap. Easier than going to all the work of backing it all up.


I think that you have to list every single CD owned to claim insurance... title... and don't you have to photograph each album too?


----------



## bigshot

All you need is a photograph. Get a good digital camera, shoot photos of everything and put the photos in the cloud or a safe deposit box.


----------



## Albert7

bigshot said:


> All you need is a photograph. Get a good digital camera, shoot photos of everything and put the photos in the cloud or a safe deposit box.


Thanks for the advice. I will do that for my vinyl and CD's then.


----------



## SixFootScowl

bigshot said:


> All you need is a photograph. Get a good digital camera, shoot photos of everything and put the photos in the cloud or a safe deposit box.


Problem is, if you buy a new CD every week or so, you have to continue documenting them. But if you buy off Amazon and/or Ebay, you will have a record of your purchases on those sites that presumably you could make prints of in event of a disaster.

But I think it may be a whole lot of work buying 1000 replacement CDs rather than backing them up. Of course the backups don't have the nice packaging, booklets, etc.


----------



## Blancrocher

brotagonist said:


> I think I will likely just rip a few and upload them to Google and see how I take to it. It seems to be the easiest method that would meet my need for security and have some extra bonuses for me (see above).


I recommend starting with those maddening 2-disk sets in which a single work is broken apart.


----------



## Albert7

Blancrocher said:


> I recommend starting with those maddening 2-disk sets in which a single work is broken apart.


I assume that you are referring to opera then?


----------



## jtbell

Florestan said:


> But if you have thousands of CDs, I would not try to rip them all. Rip your favorites then only rip the others if they become higher on your list or perhaps if you spin them to play them then rip them at that time.


When I switched from a CD player to streaming iTunes --> Apple TV as my main music source, I had over 5000 CDs. I simply rip CDs as I get the hankering to listen to them, along with ripping the CDs that I do still sometimes buy if I can't find lossless downloads for them. Sometimes I rip a whole set (e.g. Haydn symphonies) even though I'm not going to listen to them all right then.

A single CD usually takes 250-350 MB of disk space in ALAC format (about the same in FLAC). Figuring 3 CDs per MB, I figure I can get my entire collection on 2 TB of storage space. That costs less than $100 now. By the time I finish ripping everything, years from now, it will be even cheaper.

I keep an ongoing backup of my iTunes library as part of my general computer backup (Time Machine on a Mac). I also keep two archives of the ripped files (and my downloads!) on separate external hard disks. I also burn all the files to DVD-R, and will probably switch to BD-R when my optical drive dies and I replace it with a Blu-ray compatible drive.


----------



## Albert7

jtbell said:


> When I switched from a CD player to streaming iTunes --> Apple TV as my main music source, I had over 5000 CDs. I simply rip CDs as I get the hankering to listen to them, along with ripping the CDs that I do still sometimes buy if I can't find lossless downloads for them. Sometimes I rip a whole set (e.g. Haydn symphonies) even though I'm not going to listen to them all right then.
> 
> A single CD usually takes 250-350 MB of disk space in ALAC format (about the same in FLAC). Figuring 3 CDs per MB, I figure I can get my entire collection on 2 TB of storage space. That costs less than $100 now. By the time I finish ripping everything, years from now, it will be even cheaper.
> 
> I keep an ongoing backup of my iTunes library as part of my general computer backup (Time Machine on a Mac). I also keep two archives of the ripped files (and my downloads!) on separate external hard disks. I also burn all the files to DVD-R, and will probably switch to BD-R when my optical drive dies and I replace it with a Blu-ray compatible drive.


I kept things even simpler. I sold most of my CD's and re-bought those in iTunes... Quicker and much easier to load up my iPod.


----------



## bigshot

jtbell said:


> A single CD usually takes 250-350 MB of disk space in ALAC format (about the same in FLAC). Figuring 3 CDs per MB, I figure I can get my entire collection on 2 TB of storage space. That costs less than $100 now. By the time I finish ripping everything, years from now, it will be even cheaper.


2TB is an optimal size for a music library. It's a volume size that loads quickly in modern computers, and avoiding splitting across multiple disks makes backup MUCH easier. My whole library fits on 2TB, but it is quite large, so I use AAC 256 VBR which sounds just as good as lossless to my human ears.


----------



## apricissimus

bigshot said:


> Another consideration is tagging. To be able to sort your music and pull it up in searches, you need to make sure the tags are organized. I would recommend not straying too far from the established format that comes up from the Gracenote database. It's easier to just clean up the occasional mis-tag in Gracenote than it is to start from scratch with your own system. Tagging is the most time consuming part of the process.


I had a particular vision in mind for my tagging scheme when I started ripping all of my CD's to FLAC. I've been entering everything by hand, and it certainly is time consuming. I started the whole process about six years ago, and I'm still not close to finishing. (One problem being I keep acquiring more CD's! They're much easier to acquire than to rip and tag by hand.)


----------



## bigshot

That's why it's better to not swim upstream when it comes to tagging. There is a convention for it and it works. No need to reinvent the wheel. It you can get 90% of your tagging out of Gracenote, you are doing good, and there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do that.


----------



## Jorge Hereth

I use the KISS technology for it: for this case KISS means Keep It Simple Stupid, one of the reasons of existence for Slackware Linux users.

Ok, got your Slackware - my case - or any other Linux or BSD system of your choice installed, first step done.

Second step: make sure you have a KDE, a GNOME and an XFce platform installed.

Third step: have a look if k3b, kaudiocreator and soundkonverter and easytag are installed. These four softwares are the soucre of truth for your CDs preservation of species.

By the way, if you need a Windows or MacOs in your computer or notebook, you can have a Linux or BSD system nevertheless in it: just back up your files before you start and than format your HD for a dual boot and install your Linux/BSD x Windows/MacOS crossing. There exist Linux systems for Apple computers. You just need the install discs of your chosen systems to proceed. But in order to avoid serious mistakes, have someone who knows teaching you, or a good book on Linux or BSD systems open beside you when doing it, for install chronology and places of respective partitions on an HD are elementary. And take the instructions seriously!

Once done, and operating systems working, what I use to do:

1. Put a CD into k3b and copy it; so after it the original CD will stay at home, protected and unharmed, and in my truck I can listen to the copy - when my truck's CD player decides to work of course, a pretty trouble during the dry, dusty and cold Southeastern Brazilian countryside Winters - or show it to a friend, etc.... And should anything happen, I just can copy the CD again.

2. Rip the CD with kaudiocreator; for that one, I use to rip it three times, once to flac format as a backup, once to mp3 for listening on pendrives, and once to ogg which is the standard audio format on Linux and BSD systems to listen on my computer; the advantages of ogg format: it has a sound quality getting near to flac, and uses some 30% less space than a mp3. If ogg format is not much more popular it's because it has been licensed and patented in a very strict way that no whichever commercial advantage may be taken. For example, anybody selling mp3 files, they would break all laws if they did so with ogg. Audio ripped to ogg may be given away as a gift but can never ever be sold. And you can install an ogg device also into your Windos or MacOS for free.

3. Things done, music's tagged with easytag. 

4. Any exotic formats like wma, wav, alac, etc., with soundkonverter you can transform them into the desired formats of flac, ogg and mp3.


----------



## haydnfan

You say KISS, but that's overly complicated. I use dbpoweramp and check the tags before I rip it. Fast, easy and secure. I rip to flac, I play flac.


----------



## Jorge Hereth

Gave a look at dbpoweramp's website, looks fine to me. Guess it could be the one for my Windows partition.


----------



## GreatFugue

I'm beginning the task of re-ripping my relatively modest CD collection since I seem to have misplaced the drive that I had already ripped to (ouch), but I'm torn between standard track-per-movement style files or just combining tracks into logical units. I'm leaning towards combining, but when it comes to things like operas, I'd end up with a 3 hour track. Plus, depending on mood, I like to skip around movements.

Anyone have any compelling arguments for either method, or am I just over-analyzing?

Side note: How do you feel about abandoning the CD-as-album with multiple works and just using the name of a single work as the album name?


----------



## brotagonist

Progress Update: While I still think it would be a great idea, I have not yet attempted it :lol: Maybe when I retire?


----------



## bigshot

The best way to do it is to multitask. If you're sitting at the computer anyway, just rip a CD. I do this, and I'm always surprised to see great big box sets get progressively sucked into my server a disk at a time.


----------



## haydnfan

bigshot said:


> The best way to do it is to multitask. If you're sitting at the computer anyway, just rip a CD. I do this, and I'm always surprised to see great big box sets get progressively sucked into my server a disk at a time.


That was how I ripped my collection. Surfing the web, catching up on news etc. in the morning with my coffee ripping cds. My collection is only a few hundred cds so it didn't take long.


----------



## ArtMusic

*Help needed*

I downloaded music in the format ".mp4" but my Windows Media Player does not play it.


----------



## Tedski

Download and install Any Audio Converter; convert to mp3.


----------



## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> *Help needed*
> 
> I downloaded music in the format ".mp4" but my Windows Media Player does not play it.


Why not download an mp4 player? http://download.cnet.com/Free-MP4-Player/3000-13632_4-75965047.html


----------



## KenOC

Deleted this post, sorry.


----------



## ArtMusic

Why thank you all very kindly.  I can now play the file and convert it to "wav" format, burn it onto CD. I am quite pleased with myself right now.


----------



## gHeadphone

ArtMusic said:


> Why thank you all very kindly.  I can now play the file and convert it to "wav" format, burn it onto CD. I am quite pleased with myself right now.


Hey Art Music, try using foobar as a player. its really efficient and if used as it comes should play all formats you can think of so no conversions needed.


----------



## Jorge Hereth

ArtMusic said:


> *Help needed*
> 
> I downloaded music in the format ".mp4" but my Windows Media Player does not play it.


Just install VLC (hope you know if your computer's a 32 or a 64 one...


----------



## Adamus

You rip with iTunes 12.2 .2.25 settings itunes plus and error correction? ITunes/gracenote doing the tagging?


----------



## haydnfan

Adamus said:


> You rip with iTunes 12.2 .2.25 settings itunes plus and error correction? ITunes/gracenote doing the tagging?


I find that iTunes is not that good for error correction. I prefer secure ripping instead. EAC, dbpoweramp and several other programs support secure rip and also have a database to check against. If you have to use iTunes, burst ripping will yield the same results but faster (since iTunes error correction is poor).

My major problem with iTunes is that gracenote can be terrible at times. I once had a Emerson Quartet recording (so read not an esoteric cd) fill in with kanji. What!? The tags are sometimes just terrible, and the cover art a joke.

I prefer AMG and SonataDB for tagging. And I like Amazon for cover art.


----------



## gHeadphone

EAC is fantastic for ripping Cds, the best ive used by far.


----------



## Azol

gHeadphone said:


> EAC is fantastic for ripping Cds, the best ive used by far.


Exactly. Use it with conjunction with FLAC format encoding and be happy!


----------



## padraic

Azol said:


> Exactly. Use it with conjunction with FLAC format encoding and be happy!


This is exactly what I do (EAC/FLAC). I can get the tags the way I want and then rip. Sometimes I need to use Mp3Tag to alter them after the fact (like when symphonies span over multiple discs).


----------



## bigshot

I keep the "check rip" button checked in iTunes and after thousands and thousands of CDs, I have yet to find an error. But I'm not dealing with beat up, scratched disks all that much.


----------



## Guest

I've not yet found any problems with iTunes ripping my CDs, but I've also not yet found a flawless database - the worst was whatever WMPlayer used. Using MP3Tag and Amazon usually helps if Gracenote fails, as it sometimes does.


----------



## Adamus

You are afraid not all errors corrected without hearing it?


----------



## Adamus

bigshot said:


> I keep the "check rip" button checked in iTunes and after thousands and thousands of CDs, I have yet to find an error. But I'm not dealing with beat up, scratched disks all that much.


XLD is for scratched disks imho.


----------



## ArtMusic

*CD question*, appreciate if you know the correct answer.

What is the minimum and maximum temperature range that CDs can be stored without damage? I ask because I have CDs in their original jewel cases that are collectively stored inside a large clear plastic storage tub. And the tub is placed next to a glass door exposed to a few hours of morning sun each day. I am more concerned about the warmer summer months inside the tub.


----------



## KenOC

See this:

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec5.html


----------



## ArtMusic

KenOC said:


> See this:
> 
> http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec5.html


Is that right?

 Some suggest a maximum of 68F/20C to 122F/50C which is a big range. The 68F/20C temperature is not what a normal summer room temperature can be.


----------



## KenOC

Librarians are fanatics.


----------



## ArtMusic

KenOC said:


> Librarians are fanatics.


So we don't really know the answer. I was thinking a CD in a CD player such as a computer can get very warm and it seems fine.


----------



## ArtMusic

ArtMusic said:


> So we don't really know the answer. I was thinking a CD in a CD player such as a computer can get very warm and it seems fine.


I found this and it seems like a real life experience. I thought I would share this with members here given we must have a lot of CDs:

_"This is by no means scientific or a recommendation that anyone else do this, however it may put some minds at ease a bit.

I live in Tucson, Arizona - one of the sunniest and hottest places on the planet. I leave my pickup truck parked outside my office all day in direct sunlight with the windows rolled up. The temperature outside reaches 110+ degrees in the summer. Inside, it must be 130-150 or so for hours on end, day after day, all summer. At any given time, I have between 10 and 50 CDs in my truck - some pressed and some burned. I sometimes have DVDs in there too. I make no special efforts to keep the disks out of direct sunlight. (I don't leave them out on the dashboard either - just on the seat where they usually get a couple hours of direct sunlight a day. Some of them in jewel cases and some just naked.) I have never had any heat related problems whatsoever with any of the CDs or DVDs I leave in the truck. I have had some jewel cases melt on me, but I've never had any disks damaged.

My conclusion: No natuarally occuring condition on the planet Earth (with the possible exception of a volcanic eruption) is hot enough to adversly affect CDs or DVDs. This is nothing to worry about. This is just my opinion and is based on absolutely nothing by my personal experience. I take no responsiblity if your CD melts in your car."_


----------



## Morimur

If you digitize your CDs, store the originals in bankers boxes and place them in a dry, cool place. That's all you gotta do, jigga!


----------



## Morimur

Or you can just go completely digital and not have to worry about any of it—that's what a practical, sane person would do . . . unfortunately most of us on here are bat-***** crazy and narrow minded.


----------



## ArtMusic

I have all digital formats of those CDs as well.


----------



## Guest

Morimur said:


> Or you can just go completely digital and not have to worry about any of it-that's what a practical, sane person would do . . . unfortunately most of us on here are bat-***** crazy and narrow minded.


Possible if one has the money to spend so that you can listen digitally everywhere you go.
Not possible if one doesn't.


----------



## KenOC

MacLeod said:


> Possible if one has the money to spend so that you can listen digitally everywhere you go.
> Not possible if one doesn't.


iPod Classic 160 GB, used ~$200. iTunes software, free. Headphones of your choice, or use the included earbuds. Room for more music than you're ever likely to really need. 256K VBR MP3s will give you about 70 days' worth. No monthly fees or connection charges!


----------



## Guest

KenOC said:


> iPod Classic 160 GB, used ~$200. iTunes software, free. Headphones of your choice, or use the included earbuds. Room for more music than you're ever likely to really need. 256K VBR MP3s will give you about 70 days' worth. No monthly fees or connection charges!


I'm not fond of using headphones in the car. Whilst I now have an mp3 capable stereo unit, it wasn't fitted as standard and I find it easier to slip in a CD than to scroll and search using my iPod Touch which only holds 30GB.

I also don't like routing my iPod through my main hi-fi - prefer CDs

However, my observation was less about me and about the general point that if you want high quality music at home _and _on the go, it costs, whatever your source, whatever your hardware.


----------



## Azol

When you move the whole of your music collection to the cloud, it feels like you are not the owner anymore. Will you be able to leave this collection to your children? Most likely the answer is no.


----------



## Morimur

Azol said:


> When you move the whole of your music collection to the cloud, it feels like you are not the owner anymore. Will you be able to leave this collection to your children? Most likely the answer is no.


That's a nice thought, but with the kind of children our society is churning out (narcissistic; entitled; irresponsible; sociopathic) I doubt they'll care much about the old *******'s CD collection. Of course, you yourself may have done a good job with your children in which case I salute you.


----------



## Azol

This poll makes me a bit more optimistic about our children 
http://www.talkclassical.com/39244-how-old-you.html

P.S. My 7yo daughter frequently asks me to play her the "3 puzzles" from the DVD, which of course is a reference to the famous scene from Turandot.


----------



## bigshot

Digital assets are still assets. You just need to maintain them on a hard drive and you can leave your hard drive to anyone you want.


----------



## ArtMusic

Hard drives like any mechanical device, do fail. That is the biggest risk therefore we need to backup. I prefer to pass on CDs to anyone I choose as the original recorded album.


----------



## Adamus

It doesn't stop with rippng and ditchng the player: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/c...-software-walkthrough/comments4.html#comments and then find out what it's all about (just started readng the audioexpert)


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent

Sansa Fuze takes Micro SD cards, and has support for a lot of codecs. That's something to consider. Though the wise thing to do these days is to get a cheap android phone and by a huge Micro SD card. 

I use mediamonkey to do 90% of all my music listening. Rips CDs in Flac, easy to organize and tag multiple files. Doesn't treat you like a fiend if you didn't buy your music from iTunes. You can pretty much arrange the player to look and act how you want it to. Only downside is; it's pretty heavy on the resource usage, but my computer is old....so yeah.


----------



## Adamus

Ethan,

which drobo do you prefer?


----------



## Adamus

or the google photoscan app for iphone (and android).


----------



## Adamus

bigshot said:


> All you need is a photograph. Get a good digital camera, shoot photos of everything and put the photos in the cloud or a safe deposit box.


google photoscan


----------



## Headphone Hermit

Bumping the thread

for what its worth, I have had an Agptek MP£ player for six months or so and am very happy with it. It takes micro SD cards (so it is easy to put in loads of CDs on each card), it is easy to transfer CDs onto it, it is easy to store CDs - either single CDs or sets (eg for operas), it has good battery life (and you can carry on listening as you charge it up), it carries on playing from where you stop it, easy to navigate to a different CD and it is easy to use as a player with headphones. £20 - a bargain!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Player-M07...F8&qid=1509118792&sr=8-16&keywords=mp3+agptek


----------



## Merl

I've got a 2TB HD (1.3 on it) that is backed up with another old Seagate 1.5TB drive. If I'm ripping to Flac I use Lame but it takes ages but I do it and then rip stuff to mp3 for the car using Foobar or convert using Freeman.


----------



## jegreenwood

I have about 1.6 TB on a 3 TB drive. 99.99% CD quality or better. Some 96/24 downloads, some SACD and DVD-A rips. Everything backed up twice. And I keep my discs; I find too many errors from the days when I used to rip with iTunes.


----------



## Triplets

Merl said:


> I've got a 2TB HD (1.3 on it) that is backed up with another old Seagate 1.5TB drive. If I'm ripping to Flac I use Lame but it takes ages but I do it and then rip stuff to mp3 for the car using Foobar or convert using Freeman.


Sounds like you hired a New York Law Firm there


----------



## Pugg

Nothing ripped in this house.


----------



## bigshot

jegreenwood said:


> I find too many errors from the days when I used to rip with iTunes.


There's a preference to rip with error correction that fixes that. It really should be checked on by default, but I don't think it is.


----------



## jegreenwood

bigshot said:


> There's a preference to rip with error correction that fixes that. It really should be checked on by default, but I don't think it is.


Didn't make any difference. A lot of bad rips with it checked. And no error reports. Problems with both my internal drive and an external Plextor CD/DVD drive (from when Plextor was the gold standard).

FYI - one error (reported) since I switched to JRiver for ripping - using the same drives. And that includes re-rips of discs where iTunes had errors.


----------



## Taplow

I am facing a similar situation at the moment. Thinking of migrating my collection to a new location, but re-ripping in lossless quality, and in the process fixing a lot of mistakes I made first time around. I just calculated that I have 2,227 physical discs to rip — complete with metadata and artwork. This does not inspire me to get started.

All up, it amounts to just under 1000 recordings (including a lot of operas, double-CDs and some box sets). If I were to rip 10 recordings per day, it would take me more than three months. 

Before I begin, I have to figure out where I'm going to store it all. Do I want to invest in a 2TB portable external SSD?


----------



## jegreenwood

Taplow said:


> I am facing a similar situation at the moment. Thinking of migrating my collection to a new location, but re-ripping in lossless quality, and in the process fixing a lot of mistakes I made first time around. I just calculated that I have 2,227 physical discs to rip - complete with metadata and artwork. This does not inspire me to get started.
> 
> All up, it amounts to just under 1000 recordings (including a lot of operas, double-CDs and some box sets). If I were to rip 10 recordings per day, it would take me more than three months.
> 
> Before I begin, I have to figure out where I'm going to store it all. Do I want to invest in a 2TB portable external SSD?


I think I have nearly twice as many - more if you consider that I ripped both the DSD and redbook layers of my SACDs. If you were in the U.S. I would say wait for baseball season. Sit yourself down in front of the TV for the afternoon with your computer by your side. You can get through a lot of discs.

My music is stored on and backed up on AC powered disc-based hard drives. The're dirt cheap these days. But over the years I have had two fail. They were purchased together, but fortunately one died several months before the other, so I was able to create another back-up in between.

I would argue that more important than the storage media is the CD drive. My 11 year old external Plextor can rip at higher speeds than the newer, but much cheaper, internal hard drive on my computer.

As you have already ripped once, I assume you are aware of the challenges of metadata and artwork. JRiver has a feature that lets you copy and paste metadata on an album by album basis. You could make a copy of your lossy library, rip your discs into that library and copy the album metadata before deleting the lossy version. Maybe other programs have a similar feature. JRiver also has an Expression language with a basic set of Functions and the ability to reference field content by field name.

I was reminded this morning about why I avoid iTunes. I wanted to add two tracks to my iPad. Even though I had ripped the disc in the past, for reasons not worth getting into, I wanted to re-rip it for this purpose. As I needed iTunes for the transfer, I decided to do the rip in iTunes as well. The rip seemed to go fine, but when I tried to transfer the tracks to my iPad, iTunes choked and canceled the process. My guess - and it is only a guess - is that it had to do with the fact I have iTunes set to compress the lossless tracks on my computer to 256 kbps for my iDevices. Whatever the case, the transfer did not go through and iTunes wouldn't even make a second attempt. From a number of prior experiences with the same issue (about which Apple phone tech support was of no help) I had discovered that the only way to get iTunes to make another attempt was to relocate and re-import the folder and delete the placeholder files, iTunes had created on the iDevice. In this case, even that failed the first time. What should have been a five minute process took me almost a half hour.


----------



## apricissimus

I've been working on ripping my collection (not just classical) to FLAC for over ten years now. It's a never ending process. I've never gotten to the point where I'm caught up with my current collection, and have at least several hundred CD's still unripped. It could go faster if I weren't so particular about the way I tag my files, which I do entirely by hand.

I'm typically only ever able to devote at most a couple hours per week to it. I suspect I'll never be done (especially if I keep buying new CD's).


----------



## Merl

Triplets said:


> Sounds like you hired a New York Law Firm there


Freeman = Freemake. Lol. Damn phone.


----------



## bigshot

jegreenwood said:


> I was reminded this morning about why I avoid iTunes.


I'm guessing you're using a PC. On a Mac, iTunes is fast and flawless. I think Windows has stuff built into it to deliberately mess with Apple apps.


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## Azol

I was using EAC exclusively, but when I switched to Ubuntu, EAC (under Wine) started to behave funny so now it's fre:ac for me (www.freac.org)


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## jegreenwood

bigshot said:


> I'm guessing you're using a PC. On a Mac, iTunes is fast and flawless. I think Windows has stuff built into it to deliberately mess with Apple apps.


Just found another two tracks that did not transfer. Mind you I only found these when I try to play them on my iPad. ITunes did not report an error during the transfer. As mentioned, Apple phone support had no idea what the problem might be. (But they did not attribute the error to Windows.)


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## eljr

TurnaboutVox said:


> One problem that I can anticipate you having with bulk ripping would be the meta-data.


Indeed. Each disc needs to be ripped and inspected separately if you have any hopes of being able to resource what you want when.


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## eljr

bigshot said:


> I'm guessing you're using a PC. On a Mac, iTunes is fast and flawless. I think Windows has stuff built into it to deliberately mess with Apple apps.


It;s the opposite. Apple, by design, makes using none Apple products difficult.

I would never "expose" my music to Apple. I would never use an Apple anything. For this very reason.


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## jegreenwood

jegreenwood said:


> Just found another two tracks that did not transfer. Mind you I only found these when I try to play them on my iPad. ITunes did not report an error during the transfer. As mentioned, Apple phone support had no idea what the problem might be. (But they did not attribute the error to Windows.)


Just found a thread on the Apple Forum that confirms my suspicion that the problem comes from the on the fly conversion from ALAC to 256 kbps that iTunes tries to do during the transfer. According to the thread, if I uncheck this option in iTunes, I can transfer without a problem. (Of course now the music on my iDevice takes up much more space.).

https://discussions.apple.com/message/29397334#29397334

By the way the thread dates from 2015, so Apple has had two years to fix the problem but has not done so.


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## bigshot

My iTunes libraries have over a year and a half's worth of music. I've ripped thousands of CDs with iTunes without a single problem. My Mac Mini is a media server that streams music and video to my whole house and feeds an HD projection system with a ten foot screen with a 100 TB disk array of films and TV shows. It all works flawlessly. If you try to make something else into a Mac, it's doomed to failure. But if you use a Mac, it just works.


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## jegreenwood

bigshot said:


> My iTunes libraries have over a year and a half's worth of music. I've ripped thousands of CDs with iTunes without a single problem. My Mac Mini is a media server that streams music and video to my whole house and feeds an HD projection system with a ten foot screen with a 100 TB disk array of films and TV shows. It all works flawlessly. If you try to make something else into a Mac, it's doomed to failure. But if you use a Mac, it just works.


And I ripped about 2000 discs (a guess) with virtually no reported problems. But when I try to play the music I get a 1-1.5% problem rate (also a guess). I have had a small handful of reported problems with JRiver, which, except for one badly marred disc, I have been able to solve, but no unreported problems.

Edit - probably closer to 3000 discs using iTunes.


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## Triplets

I had started ripping my ads to iTunes and had done a few hundred. I discarded some of them, as the goals was to empty out some physical media. One day I switched on iTunes and...no music. It was all gone. No problem because I was diligently backing everything up, right? When I inserted the back up hard drive--all gone.
Apple didn't know bupkes when I called their support. I shared this with people on the other Classical Music Forum that I participated in--this was before I joined TC--and the general consensus was that I was crazy/computer illiterate (both of which may in fact be true).
I bought Bluesound, and started ripping my CDs there, but now not discarding. Then ,Apple created Apple Music. I didn't subscribe to it but they put it on my iOS devices anyway for a "free trial'" And...guess what? The missing files, missing for months at this point,
were showing up in my library.
I googled this--Apple Support still didn't know bupkes--and it turned out that thousands of other people had a similar thing happen to them. It seems that in creating Apple Music, Apple uploaded (I prefer the term 'stole") many people's i tunes collections
to the cloud (Keep in mind that I had never purchased any cloud services from them).
I wound up paying the monthly subscription for Apple Music, just so I could have access to my own files. I had re-backed them up, 
but who knows what Apple in it's infinite power, wisdom and corporate greed will decide what to do with them next? In the mean time I haven't burned any new discs to iTunes; it's just Bluesound at this point.


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## jegreenwood

I just spent an hour trying to get a proper set of Pinnock's Bach Partitas on my iPad. As per the above, I thought I had copied them a month or so ago when I loaded up my new iPad with music. But earlier today, when I tried to play them for the first time, I found that only four of them had been converted/transferred successfully (and no failure message from iTunes during the transfer process).

I don't want to go into all the things I tried. Just let me say that for a while, iTunes on my computer was telling me I had deleted all six of the Partitas on my iPad - but the iPad continued to play them. I finally was able to copy 6 mp3 versions of the files (converted from ALAC by my trusty JRiver) first to iTunes on my computer and then to my iPad.

I have to assume that I will find more unplayable tracks on my iPad. Maybe I'll have better luck recopying them.


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## bigshot

jegreenwood said:


> And I ripped about 2000 discs (a guess) with virtually no reported problems. But when I try to play the music I get a 1-1.5% problem rate.


My library plays constantly during waking hours and I've never come across a bad rip. I think your problem is with the way your PC works with iTunes, not iTunes itself. On a Mac it works flawlessly. And putting files on an iPad is very simple. I put files of all kinds on my iPhone all the time... music files, PDFs, image files, etc.

Using a PC with Apple software and hardware is like using a metric wrench along with a standard one. One or the other is never going to fit right.

Triplets, you probably created a new empty iTunes library. Your original iTunes library is probably still on the hard drive. Just hold down the option key while you start iTunes up, tell it to open existing library and navigate to your Users > iTunes folder and it's probably in there. I have multiple iTunes libraries organized by genre of music and I switch between them this way.


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## SixFootScowl

Headphone Hermit said:


> Bumping the thread
> 
> for what its worth, I have had an Agptek MP£ player for six months or so and am very happy with it. It takes micro SD cards (so it is easy to put in loads of CDs on each card), it is easy to transfer CDs onto it, it is easy to store CDs - either single CDs or sets (eg for operas), it has good battery life (and you can carry on listening as you charge it up), it carries on playing from where you stop it, easy to navigate to a different CD and it is easy to use as a player with headphones. £20 - a bargain!
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Player-M07...F8&qid=1509118792&sr=8-16&keywords=mp3+agptek


Thanks for posting. I have been thinking of getting a larger capacity MP3 player but was limited because I like the clip on my Sansa Clip player. Agptek makes at least one player with a clip.


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## Triplets

Triplets, you probably created a new empty iTunes library. Your original iTunes library is probably still on the hard drive. Just hold down the option key while you start iTunes up, tell it to open existing library and navigate to your Users > iTunes folder and it's probably in there. I have multiple iTunes libraries organized by genre of music and I switch between them this way. 

Tried all that with Apple support. Also, if that was the problem, why did all my files, which I had never uploaded to the cloud, suddenly reappear when Apple Music was launched? As I mentioned I was able to find a few articles detailing the experiences of others similar to mine.


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## eljr

bigshot said:


> My iTunes libraries have over a year and a half's worth of music. I've ripped thousands of CDs with iTunes without a single problem. My Mac Mini is a media server that streams music and video to my whole house and feeds an HD projection system with a ten foot screen with a 100 TB disk array of films and TV shows. It all works flawlessly. If you try to make something else into a Mac, it's doomed to failure. But if you use a Mac, it just works.


love your signature

Just read the first link, i'll vidi the others two later.


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## bigshot

Glad you peeked at them! They're very helpful, but a lot of people aren't interested in knowing how digital audio actually works. They want it to work the way they want to believe it works.


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## eljr

bigshot said:


> Glad you peeked at them! They're very helpful, but a lot of people aren't interested in knowing how digital audio actually works. They want it to work the way they want to believe it works.


second link I have seen several times over the years.

Watching the third link now but I am aware of what they speak to.


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