# Why are certain labels so expensive?



## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

Is it just my perception that some labels like BIS, Harmonia Mundi, Hyperion are much more expensive than other labels?

I have couple of Harmonia Mundi recordings that I paid nearly US$20 for each disc. They are both very good recordings/performances. While I don't want to avoid certain artists only because their labels charge premium price, it's frustrating to see that I could've bought more recordings if I chose other labels.

What makes them so expensive?


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)

From what I read, in general a third of the price of the disk goes to the publisher and manufacturer, a third to the wholesaler and distributor, and a third to the retailer. That said, there may be various factors involved in the three cost centers, e.g., the amount paid to artists, manufacturing costs, licensing, taxes, etc., that might lead to higher or lower prices. Sometimes, new performances are sold at premium price, then resold at a budget price years later, or packaged with other works, or licensed to other companies. It's usually cheaper to publish older performances, although license rates might vary.

Perhaps one can wait for sale promos to take place, where various works are put together and sold as part of a box set at 30 to 50 off.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

2 years + have passed since this thread began. Not much has changed. There's an occasional distributor failure or company merger. Rumors always.

We still have labels that are more expensive than others. Some are Premiums with legitimate expenditures and reasonable expectations, and some are Dreamers. Much of the latter are sub-standard product for which there is less demand. When there's less demand, one tactic is to raise prices to falsely convey a sense of worth. There must be forty to fifty such releases each month.

Online shopping for best prices remains pretty much the same. *Used* at Amazon Marketplace. *Close-outs* at Berkshire Records Outlet. *New* month to month specials at MDT, Presto, Crotchet.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I think because the item maybe rare so often rare items sell for more online,so sellers think someone will pay any price to get that rare item.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Maybe -could be- because some labels are more specialized than others? 

For example, Phillips and Sony have a very standard repertoire with easy to find recordings while ECM -to say one I like- is specialized in contemporary music. Not everybody listen to Veljo Tormis -just to say- but everybody likes the Beethoven's Violin Concerto which is easy to purchase from Sony or Phillips.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

mtmailey said:


> I think because the item maybe rare so often rare items sell for more online,so sellers think someone will pay any price to get that rare item.


A small after-sale market that doesn't affect too many. Not what the OP was referring to.

And it's only "rare", until someone decides to reissue it. Like Sony did recently with NYPO/Bernstein's '58 "Rite of Spring". Admittedly, a small potatoes item, compared to some seldom-recorded items on obscure labels...that are less likely to be reissued.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Ondine said:


> Maybe -could be- because some labels are more specialized than others?
> 
> For example, Phillips and Sony have a very standard repertoire with easy to find recordings while ECM -to say one I like- is specialized in contemporary music. Not everybody listen to Veljo Tormis -just to say- but everybody likes the Beethoven's Violin Concerto which is easy to purchase from Sony or Phillips.


Ahem, Philips is dead. You can now find some of their material on Decca, some licensed to Pentatone, Newton Classics, Brilliant Classics, etc...but mostly in the friendly graveyard of CDs aka Amazon Marketplace.

ECM's been distributed by Universal Music Group for 14 years. Lucrative business, world music, a category they fall into more oft than not.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> Ahem, Philips is dead. You can now find some of their material on Decca, some licensed to Pentatone, Newton Classics, Brilliant Classics, etc...but mostly in the friendly graveyard of CDs aka Amazon Marketplace.


It's true! I forget it because I still can found lots of the 'Double' editions with which I have been started into many composers.



> ECM's been distributed by Universal Music Group for 14 years. Lucrative business, world music, a category they fall into more oft than not.


I have found excellent classical recordings and his catalogue looks always tempting.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

To be honest, unless someone already has all the major bases covered, I don't see much of a point buying CDs from boutique labels. The A list recordings from the 80s and 90s are selling in box sets for a dollar or two a disk. I can't keep up with all the amazing box bargains. Why buy a $18 CD with a conductor and band from Norway when you can buy a box set of Bernstein on Columbia for next to nothing? Or a huge pile of fantastic sounding Mercury Living Presence or RCA Living Stereo? It's a buyer's market for back catalog nowadays. No reason to buy recent recordings unless it's an obscure work that isn't covered from the 60s and 70s.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

bigshot said:


> To be honest, unless someone already has all the major bases covered, I don't see much of a point buying CDs from boutique labels. The A list recordings from the 80s and 90s are selling in box sets for a dollar or two a disk. I can't keep up with all the amazing box bargains. Why buy a $18 CD with a conductor and band from Norway when you can buy a box set of Bernstein on Columbia for next to nothing? Or a huge pile of fantastic sounding Mercury Living Presence or RCA Living Stereo? It's a buyer's market for back catalog nowadays. No reason to buy recent recordings unless it's an obscure work that isn't covered from the 60s and 70s.


Do you think we'll see labels shifting away from the old warhorses and toward fresher repertoire? It's amazing how many recordings of the old staples get churned out, over and over. You'd think that territory was pretty well covered by now. It's be great if the big labels could devote their resources toward less familiar music. But is there a market for it? I imagine the classical music market is pretty small as it is.

I do wonder though: How does a new recording of Dvorak's 9th Symphony even compete against 40 other readily available versions?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

apricissimus said:


> I do wonder though: How does a new recording of Dvorak's 9th Symphony even compete against 40 other readily available versions?


By banking on a current star like Dudamel or Rattle, or a new kind of recording (different version, period ensemble, etc.).



aprissimus said:


> Do you think we'll see labels shifting away from the old warhorses and toward fresher repertoire? It's amazing how many recordings of the old staples get churned out, over and over. You'd think that territory was pretty well covered by now. It's be great if the big labels could devote their resources toward less familiar music. But is there a market for it? I imagine the classical music market is pretty small as it is.


Well, the smaller labels have practically made this into their business strategy, and the majors still have larger overhead from artist licensing and marketing.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

apricissimus said:


> It's amazing how many recordings of the old staples get churned out, over and over. You'd think that territory was pretty well covered by now. It's be great if the big labels could devote their resources toward less familiar music. But is there a market for it?


Well covered. No market. Say goodbye to physical media.


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## jtbell (Oct 4, 2012)

The old major labels (Sony, EMI, the Universal labels, or whoever owns what now, I'm starting to lose track ) make very few new recordings nowadays, and they've always been much more performer ("artist") oriented than repertoire oriented. Most of their releases now are reissues in increasingly larger box sets at lower and lower per-disc prices, as they try to milk the last few cents out of their back catalog before everyone who might want it has it already, or can get it for free from pirated downloads.

The boutique labels (Chandos, BIS, cpo, Harmonia Mundi etc.) survive by offering some combination of (a) new repertoire, (b) excellent sound quality, (c) fresh approaches in performing familiar music, (d) improved remasterings of historic recordings from 78's and LPs. Prices need to be high in order to cover expenses when selling to a small customer base. 

I remember reading an interview with (I think) Robert von Bahr of BIS who said that a small fraction of his recordings actually make a profit, a few of those make a big profit (relatively speaking), which basically subsidizes projects like the recordings of Kalevi Aho's music.

I wonder how BIS is making out financially with downloads through eclassical.com, which are significantly cheaper (even in lossless format) than their CDs.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Obviously prices can be hiked up into the 'luxury' bracket because of the costs incurred with the presentation and documentation. I have a single disc of Hugo Wolf's Goethe lieder on Hyperion yet the booklet runs to a whopping 110 pages as every one of the 24 songs is discussed at length - an extraordinary amount of pages when bearing in mind that the notes and texts are in English only. And as a result the booklet is housed in a case that is twice as wide as the usual variety yet thankfully isn't one of those clunky old-style double-disc cases. Great disc, though!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I think there's much wisdom in words that say, *ignore expensive recordings*. It's a buyers market, and I don't see things changing. To take advantage of, one need not go the boxset or download route. I'm astonished almost every day at Amazon Marketplace, when I see works-leading single CDs selling for pennies to a few dollars.

To the newbie, learn to be picky, learn to be patient. Use your ears, not reviewer's hype. It can be somewhat daunting to read all the positive reviews online. Rather than gospel, take them as opportunities to compare with earlier recs, which quite frankly are often significantly better. Not always, but most often in my experience.

It takes a lot of work to strike that *vein of gold*. But if you're serious about collecting, it's well worth it. You'll soon be building a collection that will stand the test of time. :tiphat:


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

Vaneyes said:


> ..but mostly in the friendly graveyard of CDs aka Amazon Marketplace.


Not always so friendly, I'm afraid. I've compiled a bit of a black list over the years of vendors to avoid. Nonetheless, finding that rarity in mint condition from a lovely seller at a good price can always put a smile back on my face.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Taplow said:


> Not always so friendly, I'm afraid. I've compiled a bit of a black list over the years of vendors to avoid. Nonetheless, finding that rarity in mint condition from a lovely seller at a good price can always put a smile back on my face.


 Me too, also the shipping cost are way out of line.


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