# Recommend me a version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony



## OlivierM

Forgive the cliché of talking about one of the best known symphonies.

I was listening to the Berliner Philharmoniker & Karajan's version, from the Symphonies boxset, and was wondering if there was an apocalyptic version of that symphony. A bringer of aural destruction - in a positive meaning, of course.

Thanks


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## DiesIraeCX

There is an absolute wealth of great Beethoven 5th recording. There is no definitive recording, but a very highly regarded (and rightly so!) recording is Carlos Kleiber's. It's a great place to start! Good luck.

For "apocalyptic aural destruction", Furtwangler might be your best bet.


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## hpowders

So many! Gunter Wand. Abbado, if you want all the repeats. Chailly. Carlos Kleiber.
Toscanini from his 1939 Beethoven cycle.

I myself am quite bored with the Kleiber and find it to be overrated as a performance.


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## Pugg

​Carlos Kleiber for me any day :tiphat:


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## Guest

The Carlos Kleiber is as close to a definitive as you will get for this work. That isn't to say there aren't other great ones out there - I really like Vanska/Minnesota on BIS - but the Kleiber is epic, and is paired with a great 7th.


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## hpowders

Vänskä is good too. I have so many, I forgot about it.


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## Pugg

DrMike said:


> The Carlos Kleiber is as close to a definitive as you will get for this work. That isn't to say there aren't other great ones out there - I really like Vanska/Minnesota on BIS - but the Kleiber is epic, and is paired with a great 7th.


That's why I said for me


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## DiesIraeCX

Pugg said:


> That's why I said for me


Perhaps he was, but I don't think DrMike was responding to you, he seemed to be just stating his preferences.

I'm seeing a couple recommendations for Vanska, I haven't heard his 5th yet, I'll definitely have to give it a listen.  although, not till after November 15th, I'm going to my first live classical concert! Beethoven's Fifth, Houston Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Andres Orozco-Estrada. I'm abstaining from listening to the 5th until then so I can go in with relatively fresh ears.


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## GioCar

DiesIraeVIX said:


> I'm seeing a couple recommendations for Vanska....


+1

Although my favourite is still the Kleiber's one.


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## clavichorder

If you want to hear a brisk and period instrument performance, with excellent overall musicianship and extremely clear lines like you've never heard them before, try *John Elliot Gardiner's with the Orchestra Revolutionnaire et Romantique.*


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## Guest

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Perhaps he was, but I don't think DrMike was responding to you, he seemed to be just stating his preferences.
> 
> I'm seeing a couple recommendations for Vanska, I haven't heard his 5th yet, I'll definitely have to give it a listen.  although, not till after November 15th, I'm going to my first live classical concert! Beethoven's Fifth, Houston Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Andres Orozco-Estrada. I'm abstaining from listening to the 5th until then so I can go in with relatively fresh ears.


Yeah, I must have been typing my response while Pugg was typing. I was responding to the OP, not Pugg.

The whole Vanska cycle on BIS is excellent. I have favorites for individual recordings, but for the whole cycle, Vanska is my favorite. Great performance, and great sound.


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## DiesIraeCX

GioCar said:


> +1
> 
> Although my favourite is still the Kleiber's one.


Definitely! My favorite is Kleiber's too, I'm spoiled by his recording, it has forced me to think that that's how the 5th is "supposed" to sound even though I know that's a blatantly flawed way of looking at it. I know it's not a good thing, a piece of music isn't "supposed" to sound like a single interpretation. It just kinda happened without me knowing it. Blame it on my subconscious, not me! 

This is why I'm picky about which conductor/recording I hear when I listen to a piece for the first time. It, for better or for worse, influences how I judge subsequent recordings of the same piece that I listen to.


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## GioCar

DiesIraeVIX said:


> ... November 15th, I'm going to my first live classical concert! ....


Davvero?

:cheers:

A great event, enjoy it as much as possible!

:cheers:


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## JACE

I've always enjoyed Karajan's recording of LvB's Fifth from his _second_ cycle in the 1970s:










Perhaps because it was the first LvB5 that I ever owned...


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## ptr

The name Kleiber is the correct one, but it's the elder Kleiber, Erich, who is the epic interpreter of Beethoven in the family!










/ptr


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## SONNET CLV

One of the great joys is to hear/experience this work (and other musical works) interpreted by different performers.

I, too, cherish the Kleiber recording, but that doesn't stop me from possessing some 100 or so other recordings of Beethoven's Fifth (so I certainly don't listen to the Kleiber recording exclusively!), or from attending concerts (at which Kleiber, unfortunately, will not be conducting) to hear the Fifth once more. (In fact, I already have my tickets for the Pittsburgh Symphony's BeethovenFest concert -- a performance of both the Fifth and the Seventh Symphonies -- in early December. I look forward to hearing/experiencing _that_ Fifth under the baton of Maestro Manfred Honeck.)


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## tgtr0660

Sometimes the most popular IS indeed one of the best: Kleiber's recording on DG (coupled with the 7th).


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## Pip

You can do no better than getting onto YouTube and listen to the variety offered there.
You will surely find an interpretation that you like, whether traditional or modern, it makes no difference.
You are the one who wants to have a recommended version - then recommend yourself.
What we all like is neither here nor there.
In the old days we would take ourselves off to a Record shop and sample the one or two on offer!!
Now you can sample hundreds.
Take the names of all the proposed versions and try yourself.


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## Guest

Here are ones I really like, to give you a variety - although my original statement still stands. I would make the Kleiber recording your first, then branch out from there.

Szell/Cleveland Orchestra - Sony - these albums are actually dirt cheap - you can pick each one up for ~$5 at Barnes & Noble in the discount CD section. Szell's Beethoven symphony cycle is top notch.
Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra - BIS - Great sound, excellent performance. My favorite modern recording.
Gardiner/ORR - Archiv - IMHO, the best HIP Beethoven symphony cycle.
van Immerseel/Anima Eterna - Zig Zag - high speed adrenaline Beethoven, HIP style. I like it, but it is a real outlier, some of the fastest tempos and leanest orchestration you will find for the symphonies.
Jarvi/Deutsche Karmmerphilharmonie Bremen - RCA - another great recent cycle, up there with Vanska, but I prefer Vanska
Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra - Angel/EMI - this is Klemperer! Slower, maybe, than some, but not terribly so. The recording is mono, so not as great of sound quality as the others, but with remastering, there isn't a lot to complain about. It was recorded, I believe, in '54, so it was great quality mono.

Those are all the ones I have and would recommend. Each has something different to offer.


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## nightscape

If you're going to go with one recording you might as well go with Kleiber.


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## Vaneyes

*LvB*: Symphony 5, w. BPO/HvK (rec.1977, 96/24 remastered from original mastertapes).


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## Clairvoyance Enough

Rene Leibowitz is my go to for all of the Beethoven symphonies.


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## hpowders

By this time OP should have listened to one or more recommendations.

Thoughts??????

Which of those recommended have you played? 

Your favorite(s)?


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## Itullian

Vastly underrated imho. maybe my favorite.


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## Guest

Itullian said:


> Vastly underrated imho. maybe my favorite.


Ooh, and it is paired with the Egmont Overture. Egmont and Coriolan are excellent overtures - I like them as much as Beethoven's symphonies. Favorite Egmont recording, though would have to be Fricsay, on the DG recording of the 9th.


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## KenOC

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> Rene Leibowitz is my go to for all of the Beethoven symphonies.


Leibowitz is very good indeed, though not well-known in this repertoire. His entire set of Beethoven symphonies in fine recordings, plus a lot of other stuff, can be had for (are you sitting down?) $1.09.

http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Beetho...413414264&sr=1-1&keywords=genius+of+beethoven


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## DiesIraeCX

KenOC said:


> Leibowitz is very good indeed, though not well-known in this repertoire. His entire set of Beethoven symphonies in fine recordings, plus a lot of other stuff, can be had for (are you sitting down?) $1.09.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Beetho...413414264&sr=1-1&keywords=genius+of+beethoven


Wow, I'm at a loss for words, the Leibowitz Beethoven symphonies alone are worth the 1.09$, I just purchased it right now for the hell of it.


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## KenOC

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Wow, I'm at a loss for words, the Leibowitz Beethoven symphonies alone are worth the 1.09$, I just purchased it right now for the hell of it.


See the second review (mine) for a listing of the contents and performers, put together with help from some friends on another forum.


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## Triplets

There have been lots of great recordings, obviously, through the years.
Kleiber is very good. It has been so frequently praised that there is an inevitable backlash if when I hear it on the radio without knowing the recording until announced at the end I always respond well to it. In no particular order, other 5ths that I have owned and loved are Szell/Cleveland, Toscanini/NBC, Weingartner, Hogwood/AAM, Reiner/CSO, and the aforementioned Vanska.
Dissapointments--Solti, Barenboim, Bernstein, Herreweghe, Blomstedt.


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## Declined

This is the best 5th I've ever heard. The actual CD sounds a lot better than the YouTube video.


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## Mister Man




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## PeterPowerPop

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Wow, I'm at a loss for words, the Leibowitz Beethoven symphonies alone are worth the 1.09$, I just purchased it right now for the hell of it.


I'm trying to buy it now ($1.09??? - what _were_ Amazon thinking?), but Amazon won't let me pay. What gives, Amazon? Isn't my Australian money worth anything at the moment?

Anyway, my top three versions of Beethoven's 5th Symphony are:

1. Carlos Kleiber
2. René Leibowitz
3. André Cluytens

*Kleiber*





*Leibowitz*





*Cluytens*


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## KenOC

PeterPowerPop said:


> I'm trying to buy it now ($1.09 - what _were_ Amazon thinking?), but Amazon won't let me pay. What gives, Amazon? Isn't my Australian money worth anything at the moment?


Well, of course you can get the Leibowitz Beethoven cycle on CD for...only...$72.95!

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...spell&keywords=beethoven+symphonies+liebowitz

Sorry, couldn't resist that!


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## PeterPowerPop

KenOC said:


> Well, of course you can get the Leibowitz Beethoven cycle on CD for...only...$72.95!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...spell&keywords=beethoven+symphonies+liebowitz
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist that!


Eep! Compared to almost every other available Beethoven symphony cycle, that Leibowitz set sure is pricy.

That's one reason I'm extremely keen on buying his set at Amazon - even in not-great MP3 format.

I'll try again one more time...

Nope. I've checked all my Amazon settings, and double-checked them, and everything's fine, but each time I try to buy those MP3 I get this very unhelpful message: "We were unable to process your order with the current payment information."

Grrr.


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## Headphone Hermit

Another vote for Carlos Kleiber .... we can't all be mistaken 

As an alternative, then I would second the recommendations for Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music - a completely different interpretation that is well-worth having so that you can see just how different the music sounds with HIP


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## PeterPowerPop

Headphone Hermit said:


> Another vote for Carlos Kleiber .... we can't all be mistaken
> 
> As an alternative, then I would second the recommendations for Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music - a completely different interpretation that is well-worth having so that you can see just how different the music sounds with HIP


In the period-instrument camp, I thoroughly recommend Immerseel as an alternative to the traditional modern-instrument versions already mentioned. It's both weighty and zippy at the same time:






Incidentally, user Declined (Hi, Declined!) also recommended the Immerseel in an earlier post.


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## hpowders

Even though I consider myself a HIP kind of guy, the Beethoven 5th and also the 9th, for that matter, I prefer a modern orchestra at full blast. Give me the Vienna Philharmonic over Anima Eterna please.


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## nightscape

If you want some serious speed you can try on Chailly/Gewandhausorchester.

Also, Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra is a personal favorite.


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## Pugg

Itullian said:


> Vastly underrated imho. maybe my favorite.


I am with you on the underrating :tiphat:

But the DG recordings are also very good.


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## echmain

After your concert, check out this recording of Beethoven's 5th with running sports commentary by Peter Schickele (P.D.Q. Bach).


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## Manxfeeder

echmain said:


> After your concert, check out this recording of Beethoven's 5th with running sports commentary by Peter Schickele (P.D.Q. Bach).


A classic, and a pretty accurate rendering of what people thought when they first heard it.


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## Skilmarilion

echmain said:


> After your concert, check out this recording of Beethoven's 5th with running sports commentary by Peter Schickele (P.D.Q. Bach).


Somewhat blasphemous, but LMAO anyway.


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## scratchgolf

The only three Beethoven symphony recordings I swear by are...

5 - Kleiber
6 - Bohm
9 - Fricsay

The rest are too jumbled at the top, for me.


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## bharbeke

I agree that Kleiber's version is outstanding. I also really enjoyed Barenboim with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra. This may be from the BBC Proms of recent years. It's available on YouTube to check out.


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## Couac Addict

Kleiber for me as well....even it does lose a bit of oomph in the final movement.


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## hpowders

nightscape said:


> If you want some serious speed you can try on Chailly/Gewandhausorchester.
> 
> Also, Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra is a personal favorite.


I have Chailly. Don't care for much of his set, though, his fifth is fine. The playing of the Gewandhaus is astonishing.

I also have Mackerras and wish he did them with the Vienna Philharmonic instead.


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## Mahlerian

PeterPowerPop said:


> Nope. I've checked all my Amazon settings, and double-checked them, and everything's fine, but each time I try to buy those MP3 I get this very unhelpful message: "We were unable to process your order with the current payment information."


It means that "you can't buy this unless your credit card is registered with a US address".


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## OlivierM

Thanks for the recommendations so far.
I have listened to Furtwangler's and Kleiber's versions.

The Kleiber one is indeed most interesting (a satisfying tempo to my ears, an interesting power in interpretation), but the record's quality is unfortunately quite mediocre. This one would definitely deserve a serious remastering. 
I didn't like Furtwangler's much.
I'll try to lend an ear to the other versions you guys have written about, when given time.


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## PeterPowerPop

PeterPowerPop said:


> Nope. I've checked all my Amazon settings, and double-checked them, and everything's fine, but each time I try to buy those MP3 I get this very unhelpful message: "We were unable to process your order with the current payment information."





Mahlerian said:


> It means that "you can't buy this unless your credit card is registered with a US address".


Waaah! What a bother. I was so keen to get those tracks. (They're still there for $1.09, and they're still looking at me, taunting me with their seeming availability...)

[_As Peter adopts philosophical stance and sighs with acceptance_] Ah well.

Thanks for letting me know anyway, Mahlerian.


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## PeterPowerPop

nightscape said:


> If you want some serious speed you can try on Chailly/Gewandhausorchester.
> 
> Also, Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra is a personal favorite.





hpowders said:


> I have Chailly. Don't care for much of his set, though, his fifth is fine. The playing of the Gewandhaus is astonishing.
> 
> I also have Mackerras and wish he did them with the Vienna Philharmonic instead.


The Mackerras / Scottish Chamber Orchestra is one of my top five sets. It's so lively that I could picture Sir Charles hopping about the podium as he conducted.


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## Wolfie

DrMike said:


> The Carlos Kleiber is as close to a definitive as you will get for this work. That isn't to say there aren't other great ones out there - I really like Vanska/Minnesota on BIS - but the Kleiber is epic, and is paired with a great 7th.


/thread

This is pretty much what I wanted to say.


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## Varick

Who the hell is Beethoven?

V


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## echmain

This is Beethoven:


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## Guest

echmain said:


> This is Beethoven:
> View attachment 53782


He's hairier than I pictured.


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## bharbeke

Thank you for the recommendation of Rene Leibowitz with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. I enjoyed it tremendously.


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## TxllxT




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## TxllxT




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## bharbeke

I'm at the point now where I have heard several renditions of Beethoven's 5th that are all extremely good: Kleiber, Barenboim, and Leibowitz. What makes those better to me than the other versions I've heard? In other words, how do people differentiate the different versions? The most obvious is tempo. The 33 minute version felt too drawn out, while the 28 minute Leibowitz was just right. What are other factors people pick up on when deciding which version to listen to?


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## scratchgolf

bharbeke said:


> I'm at the point now where I have heard several renditions of Beethoven's 5th that are all extremely good: Kleiber, Barenboim, and Leibowitz. What makes those better to me than the other versions I've heard? In other words, how do people differentiate the different versions? The most obvious is tempo. The 33 minute version felt too drawn out, while the 28 minute Leibowitz was just right. What are other factors people pick up on when deciding which version to listen to?


For me, Beethoven is defined by 3 instruments. The Horn, Oboe, and Bassoon.


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## JACE

bharbeke said:


> I'm at the point now where I have heard several renditions of Beethoven's 5th that are all extremely good: Kleiber, Barenboim, and Leibowitz. What makes those better to me than the other versions I've heard? In other words, how do people differentiate the different versions? The most obvious is tempo. The 33 minute version felt too drawn out, while the 28 minute Leibowitz was just right. What are other factors people pick up on when deciding which version to listen to?


If you listen over and over again, the differences between interpretations will reveal themselves. There are about a MILLION different things that affect the way a performance sounds. And you don't need to be a musician or musicologist to pick up on these differences. Just use your ears.


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## SixFootScowl

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Wow, I'm at a loss for words, the Leibowitz Beethoven symphonies alone are worth the 1.09$, I just purchased it right now for the hell of it.


Alas, it won't let me download it because Amazon requires their downloader software even though it should go to their cloud. Also they say they do not support Linux operating systems, so i guess no Leibowitz for me.


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## hpowders

Try Gunter Wand.


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## Albert7

The Carlos Kleiber version for me was quite an experience hearing it many years ago for me.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> Try Gunter Wand.


Yes, I have Gunter Wand and like it very much. I am just a sucker for a super deal. Besides, it seems as if Leibowitz has been highly recommended.



albertfallickwang said:


> The Carlos Kleiber version for me was quite an experience hearing it many years ago for me.


That is supposed to be another good one, and can be had fairly reasonably priced off Amazon used.

Right now I have Wand, Walter, the Hanover Band (more than one conductor), and the NAXOs set (Edlinger for most, Halasz on two). Also have Furtwangler WWII recordings of 3,4,5,6,7, and 9 (hpowders likes this set). So I don't guess I really need more, but you know how it is. Always fun to buy another symphony cycle. How about Cluytens? I have had my eye on that one for some time.


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## hpowders

Florestan said:


> Yes, I have Gunter Wand and like it very much. I am just a sucker for a super deal. Besides, it seems as if Leibowitz has been highly recommended.
> 
> That is supposed to be another good one, and can be had fairly reasonably priced off Amazon used.
> 
> Right now I have Wand, Walter, the Hanover Band (more than one conductor), and the NAXOs set (Edlinger for most, Halasz on two). Also have Furtwangler WWII recordings of 3,4,5,6,7, and 9 (hpowders likes this set). So I don't guess I really need more, but you know how it is. Always fun to buy another symphony cycle. How about Cluytens? I have had my eye on that one for some time.


I love the Lucerne Furtwängler Ninth but find the other performances in the set a bit slow.

The Abbado/Berlin Fifth is okay but in my opinion Abbado spoils things by taking all repeats in the third movement. In my opinion, they are unnecessary.

The safest performance of the Fifth guaranteed to thrill a novice would be the Carlos Kleiber, in my opinion.

For a wonderful complete set, the Gunter Wand is hard to beat. I will have to play it again soon. It contains my all time favorite performance of the sadly underappreciated Fourth Symphony.

I haven't heard Liebowitz nor Cluytens.


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## Itullian

Florestan said:


> Yes, I have Gunter Wand and like it very much. I am just a sucker for a super deal. Besides, it seems as if Leibowitz has been highly recommended.
> 
> That is supposed to be another good one, and can be had fairly reasonably priced off Amazon used.
> 
> Right now I have Wand, Walter, the Hanover Band (more than one conductor), and the NAXOs set (Edlinger for most, Halasz on two). Also have Furtwangler WWII recordings of 3,4,5,6,7, and 9 (hpowders likes this set). So I don't guess I really need more, but you know how it is. Always fun to buy another symphony cycle. How about Cluytens? I have had my eye on that one for some time.


the Cluytens is a great set.


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## SixFootScowl

Itullian said:


> the Cluytens is a great set.


 I just might pick that one up at Dearborn Music. I think they have it for $16 new. All I have to do is go there when they have a sale, sometimes 20-25% off. Would be comparable to the Amazon pricd shipped and I get to support my local music store. Meanwhile I am on my wife's computer which has Microsoft Windows and am going to see if I can get that digital set. For $1.09 it is a must have.



hpowders said:


> I love the Lucerne Furtwängler Ninth but find the other performances in the set a bit slow.


 Ah, I should have said you like the collection of symphonies not the set. But you can get any set and just not play 1,2, and 8.

Leibowitz is downloading right now. Had to install the Amazon music downloader. Guess they want to be in control. Well it all gets burned to a disc for storage and transferred to my Linux computer and the symphony cycle to my mp3 player. Next up after the Hanover Band cycle I am working my way thorough right now.

Wow! What A DEAL! $1.09 minus a $1.00 promotion that must have been sitting on my account. I got the Leibowitz symphony cycle and the rest of this set for a whole 9 cents!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ptr said:


> The name Kleiber is the correct one, but it's the elder Kleiber, Erich, who is the epic interpreter of Beethoven in the family!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /ptr


I can't stand Erich Kleiber!

Try Immerseel!


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## hpowders

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I can't stand Erich Kleiber!
> 
> Try Immerseel!


Big jump. Traditional to HIP.


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## hpowders

I've been thinking. I know! I know! A rare activity for me.

Be so as it may, has there ever really been any recording of the Beethoven Fifth Symphony that could be considered unsatisfactory?

I maintain it is one of the most fool-proof symphonies in the entire repertoire to conduct. Mahler 7, it ain't.


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## ptr

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Try Immerseel!


That is a completely different ideology, not sure if they are compatible, differs to much, but equally enjoyable!

/ptr


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## Chronochromie

Garrrdiner!!! :tiphat:


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## millionrainbows

OlivierM said:


> I was listening to the Berliner Philharmoniker & Karajan's version, from the Symphonies boxset, and was wondering if there was an apocalyptic version of that symphony. A bringer of aural destruction - in a positive meaning, of course.
> 
> Thanks


You must transcend all recorded performances, and get the actual score. It is within these pages that the true, definitive version of the Fifth Symphony lies, in its silent Platonic potentiality.


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## realdealblues

One I haven't seen mentioned:

George Szell/Vienna Philharmonic Live 1969 on the Orfeo Label.

Exceptional performance and Szell's best recording of the work in my opinion.


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## SixFootScowl

I don't know how good this one is (never heard it) but it would be a blast watching the synchronized score travel across your computer screen as the music plays.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ptr said:


> That is a completely different ideology, not sure if they are compatible, differs to much, but equally enjoyable!
> 
> /ptr


Ah well how about Dorati? I love the Dorati recording!


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## ptr

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Ah well how about Dorati? I love the Dorati recording!


Not on my top ten list, there are so many recordings of this symphony that You can't love em all'!








/ptr


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## Überstürzter Neumann

Frans Brüggen and The Orchestra of the 18th Century is very good.


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## Headphone Hermit

hpowders said:


> I haven't heard Liebowitz nor Cluytens.


For what it is worth, I find Cluytens' version of the 5th satisfactory. I find Kleiber's and Gardiner's to be revelatory

The choice is your's, Sir! :tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl

I am listening to Ferenc Fricsay's 5th right now and it is very good. You can find it on You Tube.


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## Albert7

Kleiber's version for me is one of my all time favorite recordings.


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## hpowders

The Gunther Wand. Majestic.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> The Gunther Wand. Majestic.


I'll take it! What am I talking about, I already have it, and Szell and Fricsay, with Ferencsik coming in the mail, and Monteux. Guess I should have a play off of all my 5ths.


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## Orfeo

*Leonard Bernstein and the VPO* (nice, sweet, and quite majestic. Plus it's a fun, enjoyable album).


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## afterpostjack

This one, which seems to get removed on Youtube every time it is put there, is the best I've heard despite its slight offset in pitch: https://myspace.com/290149977/video/beethven-symphony-no.-5-herbert-von-karajan/58590803

Better than all of his other recordings of this symphony by some margin. To me, a bit better than for instance Kleiber's version - especially in the second and fourth movements. I find it difficult to imagine how anyone could better this, except for taking the repetition in the final movement.


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## SixFootScowl

Here is an excellent 5th:


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## SixFootScowl

Here is a great 5th:






Second Movement. Third and Fourth Movements.


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## hpowders

I don't get it. Has anyone ever heard a bad performance of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony?
The approximately 50 I have heard over my lifetime have all been decent. A few, yes are great.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> I don't get it. Has anyone ever heard a bad performance of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony?
> The approximately 50 I have heard over my lifetime have all been decent. A few, yes are great.


Right, but you are being too logical. Don't forget there is that insatiable desire for the absolute best, most perfect performance. Else we could all get the NAXOs symphony cycle, no?


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## KenOC

hpowders said:


> I don't get it. Has anyone ever heard a bad performance of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony?
> The approximately 50 I have heard over my lifetime have all been decent. A few, yes are great.


"Wagner, conducting a Court Concert at Dresden during the insurrection of 1848, felt his spirits sink as each number of the programme seemed to bring a deeper gloom over the audience, and gradually to extinguish all applause. Leaning down from his desk, he whispered to the leader of the violins, 'What is to be done?' 'Oh! go on,' said the leader, 'there is still the C-minor coming, and all will be right.' And so it was; for with the magic sound of the opening bars, everyone's spirit revived, applause burst from the benches, and it was as if a bright light shone into the room."

--Sir George Grove, "Beethoven and His Nine Symphonies," 1896 edition.


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## hpowders

Florestan said:


> Right, but you are being too logical. Don't forget there is that insatiable desire for the absolute best, most perfect performance. Else we could all get the NAXOs symphony cycle, no?


For the absolute best we have Carlos Kleiber. As the Geico commercial states "Everybody knows that!"


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> For the absolute best we have Carlos Kleiber. As the Geico commercial states "Everybody knows that!"


Ah, of course. Why didn't I think of that. All we need is a sticky note thread that says, "Don't ask what is the best Beethoven symphony cycle, just get Kleiber! Challengers post here--you will fail.


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## quack

Florestan said:


> Ah, of course. Why didn't I think of that. All we need is a sticky note thread that says, "Don't ask what is the best Beethoven symphony cycle, just get Kleiber! Challengers post here--you will fail.


It's not a cycle? (still feel like I have failed though)


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## SixFootScowl

quack said:


> It's not a cycle? (still feel like I have failed though)


Of course. But it is a cycle if you have it on perpetual repeat setting.


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## ptr

hpowders said:


> For the absolute best we have Carlos Kleiber. As the Geico commercial states "Everybody knows that!"


As I've stated before, that is so wrong that it has become a self fulfilling prophecy! Senior was so much better! 

/ptr


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## DavidA

ptr said:


> As I've stated before, that is so wrong that it has become a self fulfilling prophecy! Senior was so much better!
> 
> /ptr


Afraid I disagree - fils takes the laurels!


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## ptr

DavidA said:


> Afraid I disagree - fils takes the laurels!


Oh no, are You one to! And I had such high hopes for You... 

To be honest, there are to many good LvB fivers for anyone to only have one!

/ptr


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## 13hm13

*Szell - The Concertgebouw Recordings (Philips, 1966)*



Fritz Kobus said:


> Here is an excellent 5th:


I'm listening to this right now on YT, but some one up'd a CD recording:


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## Fabulin

I recommend an alternative presentation, clocking at exactly 27 minutes.







> A bunch of editing experiments I've done on the 5th symphony.
> 
> *Movement I
> *- Carlos Kleiber and the Wiener Philharmoniker show how the beginning is done.
> - De la Rosa Oliva's string quartet arrangement demonstrates that the legendary allegro con brio doesn't need a symphony orchestra to communicate most of it's power. The Yellowhammer-inspired main motif of the symphony goes well with a leaner string volume.
> 
> *Movement II
> *- Liszt's arrangement is able to bring out of the second movement an emotional side that is too often lost amidst orchestral thunder.
> - Of particular interest is what I view as an (possibly imaginary) romantic scene 13:10, where following a moment of innocently delicate playing and the building of hope, the tenor and soprano voices start to chase each other, first above running chords, then themselves turning into octave runs, before the music concludes with a sigh on a sober and lonely note. Admirable execution by Cyprien Katsaris.
> 
> *Movements III, IV
> *- The final two movements sans repetitions have been combined into a single movement of 10 minutes 44 seconds. Thielemann's modern recording was selected because it was relatively free of sound artifacts and thus easier to edit.
> - One edit was particularily tricky to execute, and the resulting 24:34 progression sounds like a work of a romantic composer much later than Beethoven. I found it funny and let it be.


Sloppy and sacrilegious? Sure thing - but it does show a few interesting things, including why are the repetitions not merely a fad of the era, but a vital part of the structure of the symphony, as well as how _optional _is this symphony's orchestration at times.


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