# Round Two: Elektra- Ich kann nicht sitzen. Rysanek and Welitsch



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

* Leonie Rysanek: Strauss - Elektra, 'Ich kann nicht sitzen' *






Ljuba Welitsch sings "Ich kann nicht sitzen" from Strauss' Elektra


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Not my bailiwick but just on the basis of the voices alone I shall go with Welitsch although I am not normally a fan of beautiful voices.. 
A beautiful voice to me (Tebaldi, Fleming, etc.) is secondary to what a singer with a less beautiful instrument can do with their voice. (Callas/Olivero)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Not my bailiwick but just on the basis of the voices alone I shall go with Welitsch although I am not normally a fan of beautiful voices..
> A beautiful voice to me (Tebaldi, Fleming, etc.) is secondary to what a singer with a less beautiful instrument can do with their voice. (Callas/Olivero)


Many people ascribe that description to the electrifying Rysanek who did not have a traditionally beautiful voice.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Many people ascribe that description to the electrifying Rysanek who did not have a traditionally beautiful voice.


Yes I am very aware of that but with just an aria to choose from and not a complete performance, I have no way of knowing how Rysanek would have come through, hence the prettier voice won.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Rysanek is a very erratic singer, but in the theater she can make a great impression with her fearless unhinged performances especially in the soaring Straussian phrases. On disc, without her stage presence, she is less compelling or one notices her faults to a greater degree.
I like Welitsch better in this piece.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I confess to having forgotten what Chrysothemis is going on about here, beyond the fact that she can't sit (hemmorhoids?). I can only marvel at how Welitsch makes all her angular, wordy, melodically unmemorable vocal ejaculations sound musical, a feat unachieved by Rysanek, who makes me think of the wolf in the tale of the three little pigs ("I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down!"). As MAS points out, she was best seen as well as heard.

If we had singers as good as Welitsch to perform it, I might occasionally be willing to listen to something from _Elektra_ besides the recognition scene.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't much like *Elektra *and haven't heard it in ages. Welitsch made me wonder if I should investigate the opera again. Rysanek didn't.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't much like *Elektra *and haven't heard it in ages. Welitsch made me wonder if I should investigate the opera again. Rysanek didn't.


Because the music is so overwhelming it is more of a physical than a vocal acting opera- your preferred type. Of course your voice must be big enough to hear over the orchestra. Nilsson's at 64 from the Met is somewhat past her vocal prime of course but dear god I have rarely seen more incredible acting. Of course the big confrontation scene between Jones and Rysanek was not called Godzilla meets Mothra for nothing. OMG! It is so intense. All of the great Elektras were great physical actors. Varnay, Nilsson, Jones, Marton, Behrens. I was lucky to see a great actress in the role. Personally I get more into the family drama of Elektra than the usual romantic drama of many operas. Of course Verdi did the same theme often.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MAS said:


> Rysanek is a very erratic singer, but in the theater she can make a great impression with her *fearless unhinged* performances especially in the soaring Straussian phrases. On disc, without her stage presence, she is less compelling or one notices her faults to a greater degree.
> I like Welitsch better in this piece.


Rysanek for me... There's just something about that combination of being fearless and unhinged that I find to be so irresistible... Brings back fond memories of those high-strung high-maintenance actresses that I used to date whose erratic - deranged - off-the-wall - so completely nuts that they may have actually been clinically insane - behavior so alarmed me poor mam that she literally went back to Ireland for the express purpose of finding me a "good and proper wife"... which, oddly enough, actually worked... And is still, to this very day, the best thing that ever happened to me... True story...


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> Rysanek for me... There's just something about that combination of being fearless and unhinged that I find to be so irresistible... Brings back fond memories of those high-strung high-maintenance actresses that I used to date whose erratic - deranged - off-the-wall - so completely nuts that they may have actually been clinically insane - behavior so alarmed me poor mam that she literally went back to Ireland for the express purpose of finding me a "good and proper wife"... which, oddly enough, actually worked... And is still, to this very day, the best thing that ever happened to me... True story...


Wasn’t there a movie about this, slightly factionalized, starring Uma Thurman? 😂


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> * Leonie Rysanek: Strauss - Elektra, 'Ich kann nicht sitzen' *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I labeled the aria - for myself - as desperately high pitched, desperation meaning both to Chrysothemis and to my ears. However, Ljuba Welitsch was a pleasant surprise. The words suddenly became understandable and that pitch less high. Maybe I would infuse her singing with a little bit more of that passion by Rysanek, to create an optimal hybrid, but I am still very content that the aria makes at least some sense to me now. So Ljuba Welitch gets my vote.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I like both, but vote for Welitsch. Leonie Rysanek portrays a crazy witch, maybe a little more stable than her sister. Ljuba Welitsch's Chrysothemis is another kind of girl, more contemplative and dreamy. She escapes from her family affairs mostly in mind (but keeps a possibility of something like Isabelle Huppert's character did in _Les valseuses_).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ColdGenius said:


> I like both, but vote for Welitsch. Leonie Rysanek portrays a crazy witch, maybe a little more stable than her sister. Ljuba Welitsch's Chrysothemis is another kind of girl, more contemplative and dreamy. She escapes from her family affairs mostly in mind (but keeps a possibility of something like Isabelle Huppert's character did in _Les valseuses_).


The opera desperately needs a little sanity for contrast. It can come across as a parodistic freak show (which I presume is what some people like about it), and the voices we usually have to tolerate in it are a virtual guarantee that it will do just that. Forced to listen - which, fortunately, I'm not - I'd say Rysanek is precisely the singer I _don't_ want to hear as Chrysothemis.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Now we're pulling out the big guns.

I like Rysanek (probably more than most here). She sings this well, but her voice sounds too big and dark for my idea of the role. It will depend though on how she handles the more over the top part of the narration. Actually I'm not enjoying her sound here. When was this? She sounds too much of an 'Elektra in the making', is this later on? Her ingolata vowels just don't sound right for a Chrysosthemis.

Firstly I'm having to adjust my ears to the recording quality for the Wellitsch, but this is straightaway more preferable for the aria. She makes it sound easy! How does she do it? She easily takes the crown here.

N.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> I confess to having forgotten what Chrysothemis is going on about here, beyond the fact that she can't sit (hemmorhoids?). I can only marvel at how Welitsch makes all her angular, wordy, melodically unmemorable vocal ejaculations sound musical, a feat unachieved by Rysanek, who makes me think of the wolf in the tale of the three little pigs ("I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down!"). As MAS points out, she was best seen as well as heard.
> 
> If we had singers as good as Welitsch to perform it, I might occasionally be willing to listen to something from _Elektra_ besides the recognition scene.


Either hemmorhoids or possibly a colonic injury.

I really don't like Rysanek's singing. I imagine her top notes would have been very exciting in the theatre (along with her electric stage presence). As audio only - I don't find it pleasant at all.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Now we're pulling out the big guns.
> 
> I like Rysanek (probably more than most here). She sings this well, but her voice sounds too big and dark for my idea of the role. It will depend though on how she handles the more over the top part of the narration. Actually I'm not enjoying her sound here. When was this? She sounds too much of an 'Elektra in the making', is this later on? Her ingolata vowels just don't sound right for a Chrysosthemis.
> 
> ...


She recorded the role on the fabulous early 50's version with Varnay. I think 52. It is probably from then. I used to like her more than I do now unless it is video.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> She recorded the role on the fabulous early 50's version with Varnay. I think 52. It is probably from then. I used to like her more than I do now unless it is video.


I've said this before, but I love her in the Elektra film. I also like a lot of her recordings (Leonora in a Fidelio under Fricsay that is surprisingly classical for its time - almost sounds HIP). I even like her Desdemona (not that it's one of my favourites). I guess Chrysosthemis just wasn't her part.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've said this before, but I love her in the Elektra film. I also like a lot of her recordings (Leonora in a Fidelio under Fricsay that is surprisingly classical for its time - almost sounds HIP). I even like her Desdemona (not that it's one of my favourites). I guess Chrysosthemis just wasn't her part.
> 
> N.


In the theater would have been different. She was also a GREAT Klytemnestra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All three parts. Very rare.


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