# Historical Concerts



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Came across this in Orenstein's book _Ravel Man and Musician_:

"On March 5, 1913, Debussy played selections from his _Preludes_ book II, and Ravel conducted the _Introduction et allegro_. Many people had to be turned away from these concerts, which were a brilliant success."

I would have loved to have been there! Any historical concerts members of TC would like to see?


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## JohnP (May 27, 2014)

Oh, ay! The night Beethoven premiered the Piano Concerto No. 4, the Choral Fantasy, and the 5th and 6th Symphonies.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)




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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There are many concerts I wish I could have been at but alas, was born too late. It would have been amazing to have lived in Paris from say 1890 to 1935. So much new music, the rise of Impressionism, major composers from the world over lived and worked there. The arts were flourishing at an astounding level. Could have heard new works by Stravinsky, Prokofieff, Debussy, Ravel, Schmitt, Pierne, Poulenc Tournemire. 

But if there was one specific concert: 20 November 1911. Bruno Walter unleashed Das Lied von der Erde into the world.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I'd of course like to have been at the Théatre des Champs-Elysées in Paris on May 29, 1913, for the premiere of _Le Sacre Du Printemps_. But of course I don't think I ever had the right attire for the evening. I mean -- what would I wear?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Dresden, September the ninth, 1905. Premiere of Salome at the Königliches Opernhaus. I imagine the audience might have been ever so slightly taken aback!:lol:


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## Musicaterina (Apr 5, 2020)

Not a certain concert, but I would like to have heard Mstislav Rostropovich live. As well the Quartetto Italiano and Luigi Boccherini.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bronislaw Huberman performing the Brahms Violin Concerto with Furtwängler and the BPO in the early 1930s.

My favorite instrumental soloist and conductor performing my favorite work. I can’t imagine how beautiful it must have been.


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## VoiceFromTheEther (Aug 6, 2021)

Whichever would let me better imagine how Mendelssohn, Wagner, and Mahler conducted.

Hearing Beethoven as a piano soloist would have been great as well. The duel with Steibelt for example.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

1) Tchaikovsky conducting the grand opening of Carnegie Hall.

2) Sibelius conducting his own 5th Symphony on his 50th birthday.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Mahler conducting any of his own symphonies anywhere at anytime.

Mahler conducting Tristan in London in 1892 would have been interesting.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

We have the recording, but it still would have been nice to attend the live concert.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Monteverdi's Vespers of 1610 in Venice.

Handel directing Messiah, especially one of the performances later in his life as the forces involved got bigger.

Liszt, either in young rock star guise playing a piano concert, or during middle age conducting his Faust Symphony at Weimar.

Bruckner conducting his third symphony, Vienna 1877.

Satie, doing his job as cabaret pianist at the Chat Noir in Montmartre, Paris in the 1880's.

Dvorak's Symphony #9, Carnegie Hall, New York, 1893.

Rachmaninov playing his third concerto in 1910 (in its second performance), Mahler conducting the New York Philharmonic.

Prokofiev's Violin Concerto #1, 1923 at the Paris Opera. Stravinsky's Octet was premiered at the same concert.

Gershwin premiering Rhapsody in Blue, Aeolian Hall, New York, 1924.

Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Superstar, initial season in London, early 1970's.

Most of these, I'd like to be there for the atmosphere just as much as the music. I'd probably bump into other famous personalities, perhaps Toulouse-Lautrec at the Chat Noir, and Picasso was in the audience of the Prokofiev premiere. I think Rachmaninov was at the Gershwin premiere too, plus a who's who of New York society at the time.

If you'd ask me to choose just one, it would probably be Rachmaninov with Mahler. That would be purely for the music making.

Bruckner is an exception because its not so much for the music. I can't remember his third symphony. I'd attend the premiere to support the composer, since it was a fiasco. Most of the audience was hostile and had walked out by the end. I'd be one of the few to stay and clap.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Shostakovich performing as soloist in his own Piano Concerto No. 2. The existing audio recording of this performance is of poor sound quality.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Monteverdi's Vespers of 1610 in Venice.


Excellent choices, but the Vespers in Venice, I'd like to hear that. Of course, I'd probably leave there and catch the pox or the plague. Kind of like 2021, I guess.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

True, and its along those lines that I didn't include any wartime premieres (e.g. _Quartet for the End of Time, Leningrad Symphony_). That might be going too far. This clip from the movie _Taking Sides_ might serve as an explanation. I think the musicians are more worried about getting bombed than any subtleties involving interpretation of Beethoven's 5th!


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

The first performance of Mahler's 6th Symphony at Essen on 27 May 1906, mainly so I could go backstage and ask 'So Gustav definitely Andante - Scherzo?'


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Malx said:


> The first performance of Mahler's 6th Symphony at Essen on 27 May 1906, mainly so I could go backstage and ask 'So Gustav definitely Andante - Scherzo?'


I imagine his reply would be "Ich habe keine ahnung!" :lol:


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Debatably "classical", but



> Prior to its release, Subotnick played Silver Apples of the Moon at the opening night of the famous New York nightclub Electric Circus in June 1967, where the composition was enhanced by the usage of strobe lights. Those who attended included conductor Seiji Ozawa, writer Tom Wolfe and several of the Kennedy family.[4] The attendants danced to the music, which dumbfounded Subotnick, but he was pleased they enjoyed the "pulse" of the music.[4] He later recalled: "I mean, I knew it had a beat, but I'd never heard of people dancing to that."[5] Robert Barry of The Quietus believes that, with this, "Subotnick might just have been the first person to get a club full of people [...] dancing to purely electronic music."[5]


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Some good replies here and yes, myself I would definitely take the Debussy and Ravel concert over the (way too long) Beethoven concert!


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Then there are those 'fly on the wall' kind of moments, like Handel and Scarlatti keyboard competition, or when Buxtehude and Bach met, they surely played some pieces. How cool would that be?

Some here consider the Baroque era dull and stodgy, but to me the Baroque era was cooler. They were more zen, they wore kimonos. There is a feeling of 'magic' in the music. The classical era is where things got pompous, I tell you. Mozart is practically its only saving grace!
(Ducks)

I am pleased that in the modern era so many composers became more tasteful again.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

tdc said:


> Some here consider the Baroque era dull and stodgy, but to me the Baroque era was cooler. They were more zen, they wore kimonos. There is a feeling of 'magic' in the music. The classical era is where things got pompous, I tell you. Mozart is practically its only saving grace! (Ducks)


Was anyone else besides Bach and Mozart capable of creating a sound this dark in the 18th century?




 (20:24)
(I thought you agreed with me on this.)


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

hammeredklavier said:


> Was anyone else besides Bach and Mozart capable of creating a sound this dark in the 18th century?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that excerpt is pretty good. I also like some things by Cherubini, Weber, Schubert and Gluck. I said 'practically' meaning, yes there is some other good music in the classical era.

To clarify what I agree with you on - I prefer M Haydn's sound to J. Haydn. The reason I suspect that his music sounds more to my tastes, is because M Haydn sounds closer to Baroque than J Haydn.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

There are also some things in Beethoven's oeuvre I like. But according to my tastes Beethoven is so over rated compared to Bach or Mozart. When I see his popularity surpassing them, it feels so wrong to me. When I see him winning polls and racking up the most likes it is as though a little vomit rises up in my throat.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

tdc said:


> Then there are those 'fly on the wall' kind of moments, like Handel and Scarlatti keyboard competition, or when Buxtehude and Bach met, they surely played some pieces. How cool would that be?


I think you might like


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Sid James said:


> Rachmaninov playing his third concerto in 1910 (in its second performance), Mahler conducting the New York Philharmonic.


That would have been something to see.

Perhaps also the ad-hoc string quartet consisting of Vanhal, Haydn, Mozart, Dittersdorf.
And Schubert in a Viennese cafe.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

GraemeG said:


> That would have been something to see.


True, and not just because of the performers or the piece itself. Rachmaninov played hundreds of concerts, but he looked back on that one with particular fondness.



> Perhaps also the ad-hoc string quartet consisting of Vanhal, Haydn, Mozart, Dittersdorf.
> And Schubert in a Viennese cafe.


In terms of intimate musical gatherings like those, Gershwin's after hours parties where he'd improvise at the piano would be a treat. Maybe even the early performances in New York lofts of music by Philip Glass and Steve Reich, back in the 1960's when their day job was being removalists.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The premiere of Le Sacre du Printemps. There is a film from recent years with an idea of what it may have been


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Malx said:


> The first performance of Mahler's 6th Symphony at Essen on 27 May 1906, mainly so I could go backstage and ask 'So Gustav definitely Andante - Scherzo?'


I would also like to go to the third and last concert (and rehearsals) in 1907 in which he conducted his sixth, to see if he really did experiment with S-A, as some have claimed, despite A-S being printed in the programme.

I do not think that would change anything in the debate, as he never instructed his publisher to change the order back to S-A; but I am really interested in what had been going through his mind, how sure he was about the order, whether he really had no doubt etc. I should book an interview with him beforehand.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Kiki said:


> I would also like to go to the third and last concert (and rehearsals) in 1907 in which he conducted his sixth, to see if he really did experiment with S-A, as some have claimed, despite A-S being printed in the programme.
> 
> I do not think that would change anything in the debate, as he never instructed his publisher to change the order back to S-A; but I am really interested in what had been going through his mind, how sure he was about the order, whether he really had no doubt etc. I should book an interview with him beforehand.


Just make sure you don't book through Alma that would just further confuse the issue.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

One that was projected to have happened but unfortunately never did: Mahler conducting Ives.

Other than that, the Walter/VPO 1938 performance of the Mahler 9th. Considering what was happening in Austria at the time it's particularly poignant.


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