# A. Scriabin, E. Wellesz: Piano Music



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Alexander Scriabin (1872-1915), Egon Wellesz (1885-1974) both late Romantic but Wellesz died much closer to our times than Scriabin. Quite different sounding works for the piano based on some that I listened.

Scriabin
I've been listening to some of Scriabin's beautiful piano music over time and want to buy this version of the complete piano works. Wanting to delve a little deper / more into his piano oeuvre, not just the relatively popular pieces like _Etude_ op.8 etc. So, good or dud - Maria Lettberg?










Wellesz
Don't know his music that well but have listened to some of his symphonies. Good or dud - Margarete Babinsky?










All opinions welcome. The more honest, the better.

Horowitz just kills the _Etude_.


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't know anything about Wellesz, but Scriabin is one of my favorite composers of the piano. His earlier pieces are beautifully lyrical (especially the Sonata No. 2!), and the later pieces are very exotic in a post-Wagnerian way and usually build towards a huge, ecstatic spiritual climax. Listen to the Sonata No. 5, or Vers la flamme, for the best examples.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Sofronitsky recorded basically all of his pieces, and he is really considered the authority on Scriabin. Considering that he was Scriabin's son in law, so he had the low down on Scriabin from his daughter, and that their recordings are so similar (especially in their ecstatic bravura!), Sofronitsky's recordings are a window into the imaginative rhythms and voice play of Scriabin. Here is his discography: http://www.sofronitsky.ru/en/discography.html


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm looking to get more of Scriabin's piano music recordings as well, so am appreciating the suggestions here...

So far I only own this Scriabin recording but I find it good.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks! Ms Wang looks sensational on that cover!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Thanks! Ms Wang looks sensational on that cover!


I think I do know very well both composers. Calling Scriabin a romantic is just speaking about his early works when he had the influence of Chopin, The last Scriabin was not romantic. Any proves? Yes.






About Wellesz he wasn't a romantic composer at all!!!! He even composed some dodecaphonic pieces. e.g. Symphony no. 5






He was a Schönberg student!

I have all Scriabin and do have the Maria Letberg CDs..that by the way are uncomplete it does not contain the early works without opus.

I also have all the Egon Wellesz recorded works also some rare operas.

My music...

http://www3.bell.net/svp1/

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Alexander Scriabin (1872-1915), Egon Wellesz (1885-1974) both late Romantic but Wellesz died much closer to our times than Scriabin. Quite different sounding works for the piano based on some that I listened.
> 
> Scriabin
> I've been listening to some of Scriabin's beautiful piano music over time and want to buy this version of the complete piano works. Wanting to delve a little deper / more into his piano oeuvre, not just the relatively popular pieces like _Etude_ op.8 etc. So, good or dud - Maria Lettberg?
> ...


This is romantic indeed...go to Op. 74!!!!!!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I love this.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

You can call Scriabin a transition composer. Very modern for his time (he died in 1915)

Martin


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you, myaskovsky2002. Most useful.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Thank you, myaskovsky2002. Most useful.




You are extremely welcome!

Martin


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## chrislowski (Aug 20, 2011)

I have yet to hear any of his piano works, but I do own the set pictured and a single cd containing 3 of his string quartets and I think Wellesz is and extremely overlooked composer. His early Symphonies are very tonal with an almost Brucknerian or even Mahlerian scope and feel. The later Symphonies are a more atonal and composed with the 12 tone system/serial technique, but still very accessible in my opinion.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

chrislowski said:


> I have yet to hear any of his piano works, but I do own the set pictured and a single cd containing 3 of his string quartets and I think Wellesz is and extremely overlooked composer. His early Symphonies are very tonal with an almost Brucknerian or even Mahlerian scope and feel. The later Symphonies are a more atonal and composed with the 12 tone system/serial technique, but still very accessible in my opinion.


I'd say the 5th is really serial...the others are less.
=================================================
The last five symphonies of Egon Wellesz demonstrate a radical change in style. Whilst the Fourth Symphony (1952) basks in its Austrian pedigree (it is nicknamed "The Austrian"), the Fifth, which was written only four years later, shows how completely Wellesz has assimilated the Expressionist style of the Second Viennese school. The points of comparison with the Orchestral Pieces of Schoenberg, Berg and Webern are so many as to make a convincing argument for Wellesz to be regarded as much as an Expressionist as a Serialist. Tone rows are certainly present in the last five Wellesz symphonies but they do not conform to the strictures of pure dodecaphony. For example, the start of the Fifth Symphony of 1956 includes tonal patterns at the outset and the melodic passages mirror the modal practices of early Eastern and Western chants.

When Wellesz was studying with Schoenberg (from 1904 to 1906), the latter was just about to enter this Expressionist period with such works as the Mahler-influenced First Chamber Symphony (1906). During the first lesson together of Wellesz and Schoenberg, the latter pointed out harmonic extremes in Strauss's "Salome". Wellesz later described this first lesson with Schoneberg as "an unforgettable experience" and it seems reasonable to regard the Expressionist leanings of his late symphonies as a mature reflection and assimilation of the teachings of his old Master. When Wellesz wrote his book on Schoenberg (the first biography to be published) in 1920, he covered only the Schoenberg compositions up to and including the Expressionist works. When the book was reprinted in 1971, Wellesz declined to add to it. His passionate writing in this book makes it very clear how important the younger composer feels these early works of Schoneberg's to be. Indeed, the Wellesz Symphonies 5-9 belong more to the Schoenberg of the Five Orchestral Pieces op16 than the Schoenberg of the 12-tone theory and it is this kinship with the archetypal Expressionist Pieces of Schoenberg, Berg and Webern which merits full attention.

A feature of the style of the Expressionist Pieces for orchestra is their use of pointillism. At the start of the Allegro giocoso of the Symphony no 7, for example, the first eight bars of the opening theme are made up of single notes first heard in the cellos, then the first violins, then flute, harp, oboe, trumpet, clarinet in C, bass clarinet and harp. Such extreme use of pointillism is akin to that of Webern in the central movement of his Five Orchestral Pieces op10.

Another fingerprint of the Expressionist works is their use of ostinati. In the final molto tranquillo movement of Wellesz's Symphony no 8, the timpani and bases in bars 52-58 and timpani in bars 66-69 provide a perfect example of this. The opening piece of Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra entitled "Premonitions" is characterised by this device in its bass lines.

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Martin


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

chrislowski said:


> ... His early Symphonies are very tonal with an almost Brucknerian or even Mahlerian scope and feel. The later Symphonies are a more atonal and composed with the 12 tone system/serial technique, but still very accessible in my opinion.


That's what I noticed when I listened to only some of the symphonic movements from a few of his symphonies, which made me want to explore more of his music. I find these types of composers quite interesting (the switch or the versatility of tonal and atonal). I'll take my own sweet time with Wellesz.


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## chrislowski (Aug 20, 2011)

There's certainly a lot to discover about him. That's what's so great when you discover one of the lesser known composers who really should be a lot more known! I'd like to look into his chamber works, I know he wrote a number of string quartets I'd love to hear, depending on availability of course.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

His string quartets are gorgeous, alas the only available are










Martin


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Wellesz also wrote a piano concerto (1933) that might be interesting. I haven't listened to it. Scriabin also wrote one piano concerto (1896).


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Wellesz also wrote a piano concerto (1933) that might be interesting. I haven't listened to it. Scriabin also wrote one piano concerto (1896).


I should say I have listened to both. Scriabin's could be better. Wellesz is ok. IMHO not the best works.
I have listened to All Scriabin and to all Wellesz, even some operas never recorded here but just in Austria (I have a friend "well connected in Vienna" LOL.

I'm going to sleep now

Martin


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