# Greatest Rock Guitar player - Terry Kath



## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

Any other fans of Terry Kath? He was the lead guitar for the original Chicago. (I say original because after Peter C took over it turned into some other unrecognizable band.) If you watch any youtube videos, like for 25 or 6 to 4 you'll see he was amazing. And on a documentary by his daughter, she interviewed someone who related this story: Chicago was playing early on, and no less than Jimi Hendrix was back stage listening. And he said to someone there, to the effect, oh man this guy's better than me. That's something coming from JH.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Cetera did not take over the band. It just happened that the hit songs they were writing his voice fit the best for. Anytime a member turned in a song everyone had a chance to try out for it and the band decided whose voice worked best for the number.

As for Kath he was a fabulous guitar player. It amazes me to watch the old videos of him and how he could play lead and rhythm at the same time and move back and forth so seamlessly. Certainly one of rock's best guitarists. Too bad he died so young.


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Yes! He was fantastic, wasn't he?! Great singing voice, too. That documentary was really interesting; what a talent ... & what a tragic waste . You might want to check out this thread ~The Strange Magic of: Chicago (Transit Authority)

Kath was starting work on a solo album when he died ... who knows in what direction he would have gone, & how much more he could have accomplished?!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I've listened very few things of him (one was that surprising skronk improvisation on the first album of Chicago), but I've always heard he was a great guitarist. Suggest me some song that show his greatness, album or live.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I always liked early Chicago quite a bit, but I always found Kath to be a bit undisciplined and meandering in his solos.

His rhythm playing is really good.

I have to say, though, the solo on this live version, is much better than the solo on the studio version.


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## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

norman bates said:


> I've listened very few things of him (one was that surprising skronk improvisation on the first album of Chicago), but I've always heard he was a great guitarist. Suggest me some song that show his greatness, album or live.


25 or 6 to 4 is great. Very musical at the same time he's rocking. For sheer creativity and seeing what a guitar can do, check out Free Form Guitar on their first album.


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## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

Kevin Pearson said:


> Cetera did not take over the band. It just happened that the hit songs they were writing his voice fit the best for. Anytime a member turned in a song everyone had a chance to try out for it and the band decided whose voice worked best for the number.
> 
> As for Kath he was a fabulous guitar player. It amazes me to watch the old videos of him and how he could play lead and rhythm at the same time and move back and forth so seamlessly. Certainly one of rock's best guitarists. Too bad he died so young.


I wish I could remember the documentary I saw about Chicago that had various members basically saying what I said. Cetera threatened to leave or something like that. Actually I'm not sharing my personal opinion in other words, I'm just passing on what band members said about it.


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## Guest (May 2, 2018)

norman bates said:


> I've listened very few things of him (one was that surprising skronk improvisation on the first album of Chicago), but I've always heard he was a great guitarist. Suggest me some song that show his greatness, album or live.







Such a tragic loss.


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## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

There just aren't bands that like anymore, and certainly no guitar players.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't know what fans mean by "great guitarist"? Chicago was a band, and they are songwriters, so playing what's right for the music is what makes someone a great musician. I don't care about the flash. Kath was a great band player, and a decent soloist, but I never felt like he had a very distinctive sound. He did have a huge amount of enthusiasm which made the music exciting. You can't get more fired up than the opening of their debut album. I enjoy Chicago because I like bands with a group sound. And they were excellent songwriters and arrangers.

And there are still great players around that have made a huge contribution to great bands and songs. Adrian Belew, Mike Keneally, Richard Thompson, just to name a few.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Ludwig Von Chumpsky said:


> 25 or 6 to 4 is great. Very musical at the same time he's rocking. For sheer creativity and seeing what a guitar can do, check out Free Form Guitar on their first album.


Free form guitar is the "skronk improvisation" I've mentioned


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

A somewhat guitarist myself, I've long been a Terry Kath fan. I still remember contending he _was_ the greatest rock guitarist ... back around 1968 or 9! Not much has happened in the last 50 years to get me to alter that opinion.

Among my favorite recent LP purchases is this, from Rhino:









"Free Form Guitar" on the _Chicago Transit Authority_ (_Chicago I_) album and the "25 or 6 to 4" lead on the _Chicago II_ album remain classics unsurpassed for sheer chops and creativity.

And ... the guy could sing! That's Kath doing the vocal on "Colour My World"! (_Chicago II_)

I must admit that the _Chicago Transit Authority_ and _Chicago II_ albums have proven among the most played records in my collection. And maybe "South California Purples" ranks as the Chicago song I've spun more times than any other.

So, yeah ... I'm a Terry Kath fan. From way back.


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

Simon Moon said:


> I always found Kath to be a bit undisciplined and meandering in his solos.


Agreed. His solos lack structure and coherence.



Ludwig Von Chumpsky said:


> There just aren't bands that like anymore, and certainly no guitar players.


So true.


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## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I don't know what fans mean by "great guitarist"? Chicago was a band, and they are songwriters, so playing what's right for the music is what makes someone a great musician. I don't care about the flash. Kath was a great band player, and a decent soloist, but I never felt like he had a very distinctive sound. He did have a huge amount of enthusiasm which made the music exciting. You can't get more fired up than the opening of their debut album. I enjoy Chicago because I like bands with a group sound. And they were excellent songwriters and arrangers.
> 
> And there are still great players around that have made a huge contribution to great bands and songs. Adrian Belew, Mike Keneally, Richard Thompson, just to name a few.


Remove Chicago, the band, and Kath would still be great. No different from say removing John Coltrane from Mile's band and he's still great. Sure players contribute to a sound, but that doesn't mean they lose anything away from the band. Technique is technique.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Ludwig Von Chumpsky said:


> Remove Chicago, the band, and Kath would still be great. No different from say removing John Coltrane from Mile's band and he's still great. Sure players contribute to a sound, but that doesn't mean they lose anything away from the band. Technique is technique.


He removed himself from the band with his Free Form Guitar piece on the first album, which imo is a bunch of noise. He could've played something worth listening to more than once. He wasn't in the same league of musicians as Coltrane. That's for sure. But he was fine as a good rock guitarist.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)




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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

The only way you can appreciate Free Form Guitar is if you are higher then a kite. Since I haven't been that way in 40 years I just can't listen to it.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Kevin Pearson said:


> The only way you can appreciate Free Form Guitar is if you are higher then a kite. Since I haven't been that way in 40 years I just can't listen to it.


So some music can not be enjoyed by people who are straight/sober? I don't know Free Form Guitar so maybe you are right. But it seemed to me that being high sometimes opened up music for me but then, once it was open, I enjoyed it without chemical enhancement.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Kevin Pearson said:


> The only way you can appreciate Free Form Guitar is if you are higher then a kite. Since I haven't been that way in 40 years I just can't listen to it.


have a few glasses of merlot


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Had Chicago's debut been a single album I might argue that there shouldn't have been room for a 7-minute unaccompanied guitar solo, but as it was a double album lasting nearly 80 minutes I don't have a problem with it - when albums are that long there is more scope for including different things, however self-indulgent they may seem.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Kevin Pearson said:


> The only way you can appreciate Free Form Guitar is if you are higher then a kite. Since I haven't been that way in 40 years I just can't listen to it.


Simply untrue. Masami Akita, better known by his stage name Merzbow, was only 13 years old when Kath recorded "Free Form Guitar". Merzbow had not yet released an album, but the genre of "noise music" (which can be a legitimate enough genre if one drops the "noise"!) had long been established as a viable form of musical expression. Even before there was a John Cage there were Dadist musicians. Luigi Russolo, an Italian Futurist artist of the very early 20th century, in his 1913 manifesto, _L'Arte dei Rumori_, translated as _The Art of Noises_, stated that the industrial revolution had given modern men a greater capacity to appreciate more complex sounds. I suppose if one is not "a modern man" maybe one cannot appreciate organized noise (or sound sculpting) as music. Even if noise is randomly selected, as in Cage works, it is organized by randomness. Why must music be restricted on one person's definition of organized tones in harmony, or whatever? The whole modern art movement has been a reaction against narrow definitions. And so is the entire history of art itself. There was a time when the bison was taken out of the field and chalked onto the wall of a cave. And I suspect that some Neanderthal of the time looked upon the image as so much tripe. Perhaps he thought if he chewed on some Henbane it might make sense. After all, bison were created to be killed and eaten, not painted onto walls. Right, modern man?

I also admit to having an original 2-LP issue of Lou Reed's _Metal Machine Music_. I may prefer to listen to Bach Cantatas, Beethoven symphonies, or Boulez's piano music, but I won't deny that Lou Reed's musical offering lacks all merit or could be appreciated only while in a mentally unstable state. But then, I enjoy paintings by Jackson Pollock and Willem de Kooning. And I can honestly say I've never gotten "high" on either an illegal drug _or_ an alcoholic beverage. I _have_ gotten high on music -- of all sorts!


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

Terry Kath was the heart and soul of Chicago. He was a man of his times too. There is no telling where he would be now if he had not died. I don't think he would be in Chicago. That said, I like to think he would have played occasionally with his old mates. Maybe even done an album or two with them.
Kath was in the process of leaving Chicago at the time of his death. I can understand why. He wanted to PLAY! Do what he did best. CHICAGO was becoming way too constrictive to his spiritual muse of music. He was not happy being in the band. I don't want to knock Peter Cetera, he had become money for the group. Cetera and his wife were good friends withTerry and his wife. 
I think Kath was still feeling out the idea of going solo. It must have been scary for him to leave the cash cow Chicago had been. Bad habits and a self destructive streak caught up with Terry.
I never bought another Chicago album after Terry Kath died. And I had them all.


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

Was Terry Kath the greatest rock guitar player? I don't think so. I don't think he would have liked to carry that burden. Nor do I think he thought he was. 
He was just a guy who caught lightening in a bottle for a precious few years. He amazed Jimi Hendrix, the wizard of rock guitar back in the day. Jimi met an early death at a young age too.
Kath idolized Hendrix, like so many did.
Terry Kath had soul and an amazing ability to play the guitar, all the more impressive because he was self taught. He was a brilliant guitar player. Jazz, hard rock. A great big voice, husky yet vulnerable. A man of great passion. ONE OF A KIND.


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## rcoombs0101 (Jun 2, 2019)

hendrix called him the greatest guitarist in the universe, joe walsh said he was his favorite guitar player , not bad endorsements.


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## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Allan Holdsworth.

Ollie Halsall.


"Tweke" Lewis.


So then ......Next thread.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

rcoombs0101 said:


> hendrix called him the greatest guitarist in the universe, joe walsh said he was his favorite guitar player , not bad endorsements.


Do you have a source for that Hendrix statement? Even if he did say something similar, it's just hyperbole. What does it mean? There is no one greatest guitarist.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Kevin Pearson said:


> The only way you can appreciate Free Form Guitar is if you are higher then a kite. Since I haven't been that way in 40 years I just can't listen to it.


https://www.knoxnews.com/story/mone...-nonstop-flights-knoxville-denver/2580530002/


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

Steve Hillage.....


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Ludwig Von Chumpsky said:


> Any other fans of Terry Kath? He was the lead guitar for the original Chicago. (I say original because after Peter C took over it turned into some other unrecognizable band.) If you watch any youtube videos, like for 25 or 6 to 4 you'll see he was amazing. And on a documentary by his daughter, she interviewed someone who related this story: Chicago was playing early on, and no less than Jimi Hendrix was back stage listening. And he said to someone there, to the effect, oh man this guy's better than me. That's something coming from JH.


Whilst Kath was certainly a very good guitarist there are / were players technically better than him. Still it's nice to see an underrated guitarist get some recognition. He was certainly highly rated by fellow musicians and still remains so (Buckethead, Joe Walsh, Dweezil Zappa and Satch have all said they were influenced by him). Greatest guitarist? No! Very good one? Yes. As someone has said there is no greatest guitarist...... Just those you admire above others. BTW, that's a great solo on the live version of '25 or 624'. Loved it. Fitted in so well.


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