# What was the range of the bassoon in Mozart's time?



## GSHAPIROY (Oct 25, 2017)

After analyzing numerous works of Mozart (including the Bassoon Concerto in B-Flat Major, K. 191), it seems that Mozart's bassoon range was limited at the top to a G[SUB]1[/SUB] (a fifth above middle C), and that at times he even had to go out of his way to avoid writing notes higher than a G[SUB]1[/SUB] (e. g. Symphony in E-Flat Major, K. 543 (fourth movement, m. 157)). However, on one occurrence, I did find an A[SUB]1[/SUB], namely in the C Major Piano Concerto, K. 415 (third movement, m. 36).


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't think a definitive answer is possible - the bassoon in Mozart's time was far from standardized (that took 100 years more and Wilhelm Heckel to do) and the range of any bassoon depended on who built it and who played it. I can imagine how laborious making a reed was back then without the modern tools and substances we have today. The reed really limits the range, too. Lully wrote parts that go from low B flat to high f, and Rameau wrote up to b-natural. The low B and C# weren't available until Heckel did it. The vent key to access higher pitches came out a few years before Mozart died, but I don't know if he was able to use it. All of these old instruments had very few keys, and intonation was a problem as well. The high range sounds really bad compared to the later Heckel design; Mozart and company would have avoided those Rite of Spring, upper stratosphere notes.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I'd also ask bassonist Heck148, long-time forum member.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mbhaub has given a good summary of bassoon capabilities during Mozart's time...instruments varied widely, and various harmonic fingerings would have used to produce the higher register. with widely varying, and often rather weak results....the Mozart concerto does go as high as Bb in mvt I....other composers pushed the range higher - Weber writes up to high D in his concerto.....Wagner writes to high E in Tannhauser Venusberg music.
it wasn't until the development of the Heckel [German,] and Buffet[French] systems that keys and mechanical systems became more standardized...the addition of high C and D keys came well after Mozart...late 1800, 1900s.


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## GSHAPIROY (Oct 25, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> mbhaub has given a good summary of bassoon capabilities during Mozart's time...instruments varied widely, and various harmonic fingerings would have used to produce the higher register. with widely varying, and often rather weak results....the Mozart concerto does go as high as Bb in mvt I....other composers pushed the range higher - Weber writes up to high D in his concerto.....Wagner writes to high E in Tannhauser Venusberg music.
> it wasn't until the development of the Heckel [German,] and Buffet[French] systems that keys and mechanical systems became more standardized...the addition of high C and D keys came well after Mozart...late 1800, 1900s.


Maybe you can answer me this:
In that particular piano concerto movement (K. 415/III), we find the high A[SUB]1[/SUB] in m. 36, but in m. 13, 69, and 135, the bassoons stop doubling the oboes an octave lower, seeming because Mozart was lacking in this upper note. Any explanation for this?

(My dad recently played this concerto and suggested that the conductor rescore the bassoons in these measures to continue doubling the oboes, but the conductor seemed to believe that the bassoons instead double the horns here, which seems rather implausible.)

Score of the concerto: http://dme.mozarteum.at/DME/nma/nma...4LnBkZg==&cc=e03e7f147cfd585d4752bd80b344f90d


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

GSHAPIROY said:


> Maybe you can answer me this:
> In that particular piano concerto movement (K. 415/III), we find the high A[SUB]1[/SUB] in m. 36, but in m. 13, 69, and 135, the bassoons stop doubling the oboes an octave lower, seeming because Mozart was lacking in this upper note. Any explanation for this?
> (My dad recently played this concerto and suggested that the conductor rescore the bassoons in these measures to continue doubling the oboes, but the conductor seemed to believe that the bassoons instead double the horns here, which seems rather implausible.)


Hard to say - I don't think the range is so much an issue, since the solo passage goes to the high A....Mozart probably wanted the bassoon/horn combination, with the oboes having the soli line....I'm not sure I'd change the scoring....
There was a similar situation in Mozart #39/IV, where the bassoon 2bles the violin line which goes to a high A....Mozart omits these notes from the bassoon part, but the conductor asked me to add them in, and play in octaves with the violins...
IOW - it looks like a "judgement call" - not sure that any hard and fast rules apply.


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## GSHAPIROY (Oct 25, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> Hard to say - I don't think the range is so much an issue, since the solo passage goes to the high A....Mozart probably wanted the bassoon/horn combination, with the oboes having the soli line....I'm not sure I'd change the scoring....
> There was a similar situation in Mozart #39/IV, where the bassoon 2bles the violin line which goes to a high A....Mozart omits these notes from the bassoon part, but the conductor asked me to add them in, and play in octaves with the violins...
> IOW - it looks like a "judgement call" - not sure that any hard and fast rules apply.


The example you mentioned from the symphony might be the same one I mentioned in the main post; my dad said he might have avoided these higher notes on grounds of technical difficulties, because near the end of this movement we also find the higher note (A-Flat[SUB]1[/SUB]) in the first bassoon.


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