# You Can Do Better- BBC Music Magazine...



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

The June 2013 issue of *BBC Music Magazine* selected "10 Great Wagnerians." Don't know whether this was a "committee" list, or the work of the cover-article-writer Barry Millington... but here goes:

Wilhelm Furtwängler
Hans Knappertsbusch
Lauritz Melchior
Kirsten Flagstad
Hans Hotter
Georg Solti
Birgit Nilsson
Christa Ludwig
Bryn Terfel

Now, I agree with a few of these choices... but there's an obvious problem with this list- one that I'm (reasonably) sure you'll recognize readily.:lol:

Anyway... to proceed to the less-obvious problems, here are my choices-

[Can't we agree that there were some great 19th Century Wagnerians?]
*Wilhelmina Schröder-Devrient*
Her impact on the young Wagner was certainly overstated in _Mein Leben_- but what is a matter of official record is her premieres of the roles of Adriano (Rienzi), Elsa (Flying Dutchman) and Venus (Tannhäuser).
*King Ludwig II of Bavaria*
If Ludwig's intervention in the life of the fiscally beleaguered Wagner were written as a work of fiction, most editors would dismiss it as a _deus ex machina_ contrivance. And yet- we know it happened in reality. We should also remember that a last-minute intervention by the King rescued the first Bayreuth Festival.

[As long as we're considering conductors, let's pick one who did more than anyone to introduce Wagner to a new hemisphere.]
*Anton Seidl*

[Nothing against Hans Hotter... but for me, the historically pre-eminent Wagnerian Bass-Baritone is:]
*Friedrich Schorr*
next...
*Lauritz Melchior* 
*Kirsten Flagstad*(obvious choices are obvious).

[I know that, given the current crop of directors, it's easy to forget about this aspect of operatic art. But still, I'd find room here for...]
*Adolphe Appia*
The main thrust of Wagner staging in its earlier times had been (for lack of a better way of putting it) verisimilitude visions. Today, the boards are mostly held by a collection of personal visions. Appia (alone in his day) brought the concept of _timeless visions_.

[Room should be spared for at least one humble commentator- a person whose study and discourse has added incredibly to the body of knowledge concerning Wagner, so I submit...]
*Deryck Cooke*

and then *Georg Solti*

[Then finally, if we should allow for one contemporary on the tabulum, I wouldn't choose Bryn Terfel-- I'd pick]
*Daniel Barenboim*.

(Biggest regrets are leaving off Birgit Nilsson, Christa Ludwig, and Astrid Varnay... but I didn't want to make a list that was 50% female singers.)


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

George Bermard Shaw - the perfect Wagnerite after all.
Thomas Mann who dealt with Wagner through many essays and lectures and adapted Wagnerian themes into his literature.
Even Nietzsche could be counted given his early fanboyism, and his later criticisms still fall under the umbrella of Wagner scholarship. Few other writers have spent so much time and energy dealing with the composer.


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## badRomance (Nov 22, 2011)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> (Biggest regrets are leaving off Birgit Nilsson, Christa Ludwig, and Astrid Varnay... but I didn't want to make a list that was 50% female singers.)


So instead you opted to have 50% conductors! Managers bark up some vague commands and get the credit while the underlings who deliver the realization get the shaft.


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

I consider Karajan an able Wagnerian. Replace Terfel with him.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

badRomance said:


> So instead you opted to have 50% conductors!


Huh?

I listed Seidl, Solti, and Barenboim. *30*% conductors.

Which is a lower percentage than the 33% conductors that the "BBC Magazine" list contained.

[See what I did there?!]


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

As with every list you leave something out. The folk listed were indeed 'Great Wagnerians' - but not the only great Wagnerians. One can add many singers and conductors.
Conductors: Kempe, Karajan, Krauss, Keilberth, etc
Singers: Varnay, Vickers, Neidlinger, Frick, Schorr, Windgassen, etc
The list was obviously not meant to be complete so no worries.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Only one I would add to all the above for consideration: Ernest Newman, biographer and critic. Perhaps outdated in light of modern scholarship but a tremendously influential and respected scholar.


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## Oreb (Aug 8, 2013)

Terfel would belong on a long list of Adequate Wagnerians - but a list of 10 'great' ones? Ridiculous! Seems to me more the BBC magazine attempting to appeal to a parochial readership.

IMO it would be a travesty to omit Wilhem Pitz - Bayreuth's chorus master for so many years and a miracle worker.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree with the list. All but Terfel.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> [Then finally, if we should allow for one contemporary on the tabulum, I wouldn't choose Bryn Terfel-- I'd pick]
> *Daniel Barenboim*.


This x 1000.

But being the BBC, I guess they had to squeeze their Welshman onto the list.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

If they wanted to squeeze a Welshman -- er, woman -- in, they could have listed Gwyneth Jones. (Though I prefer the other Welsh Brünnhilde, Anne Evans.)


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