# Why don't I understand the first movement of Mahler's 9th?



## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

I love Mahler - especially his 6th and 2nd symphonies. And I like most of Mahler's 9th, but the first movement confuses me. I like the opening, but after that, there are lots of strange motifs played with weird orchestration and I don't understand what it is trying to convey. Can you maybe help me to understand what this music is about because I want to like it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Not trying to be snarky, but, what's to understand? There are lots of weird places in that movement. Strange flute and horn solos. Don't try to read too much into it - Mahler's not telling a story, there's no narrative going on. Sometimes it just takes a while for some music to click in place, and when I was much younger, I too recall being puzzled by this first movement. Maybe its the recording. There are some conductors who drag this movement to ridiculous lengths that can make it seem even more disconnected. As much as others revile him, I do like Solti's take in Mahler. Another help would be listen to Benjamin Zander's lengthy and erudite lecture on the symphony. There used to be a Telarc recording that is really excellent. The 9th finally came into focus for me in July 1976. My roommate and I just got back from the annual rodeo and were sitting in the dorm room, passing a bottle of Wild Turkey back and forth, watching a magnificent thunderstorm rise up around the mountains - and Bruno Walter conducting the 9th (Columbia) was playing. Funny how music can lock in some memories.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I can understand why it might be one of his most challenging movements to understand, but I fell in love with it from the first time I heard it in full. Formally it anticipates the Second Viennese School in many ways - the bare opening with shattered fragments of a _Klangfarbenmelodie_, the shocking plunges into dissonantly turbulent counterpoint, the short motifs and isolated solos, and the practically atonal climax at the center of the development. But my personal approach is a bit different than mbhaub - I _do_ imagine that Mahler is telling a story, and I try to listen for how that narrative might be conveyed through the structure, the significance of the recurring motifs and how they are transformed, etc. What you hear in the first 30 seconds is all the groundwork for the entire movement - it's amazing how he creates this nearly half-hour piece from such simple material. The rustling "foghorn" in the low strings, the tolling four-note theme on the harp, the resigned trumpet call, the rippling string "water" effect," then finally the gorgeous full-bodied melody that emerges. I always get the imagery of someone standing on a ship that is leaving the harbor, wistfully looking back on the land they are leaving and reluctantly embracing the exciting worlds ahead. And the coda with those chamber-like passages imitating nature sounds after all the turbulence that came before sounds like an entrance into an idyllic pastoral landscape. But you don't have to think about it that way - listen to a performance like Klemperer (who really helps you hear all the amazing details in the orchestration and counterpoint) and just revel in the scope and ingenuity of it.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I view it as similar to some of the symphonies by Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, an emotional journey either through reflection or confrontation in the present with moments of tension and relief. The opening theme sounds a bit sad, some yearning, but not despair. Some darker moments come in. Then some more moments of relief, even a few moments of triumph like here between 6:30 and 6:40. But immediately after, there seem to be long moments of uncertainty. Really you can put in whatever narrative behind the music.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Even if you didn't know Mahler you would recognise it as a very mature work. It is not sad or tragic but it certainly isn't happy. Does Mahler seem bemused or fatalistic in it? Perhaps it sounds resigned but resigned to what? It is somehow both peaceful and restless, emotional and intellectual, simultaneously. It seems restrained but also to lack nothing. It is a miracle of composing. I'm not given to having favourite movements - I prefer thinking of whole works - but if I did this would have to be my favourite Mahler movement.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

At the age I was when I first heard it (maybe 16) , I never looked for deep meaning, only "did I like it?" Got the Barbirolli/BPO recording out of my local library, put it on, not knowing what to expect (like all Mahler) and was captivated by it. Only the last
movement seemed less than more (and it remains my least favorite).


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## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

It is difficult to understand. I do actually think that music must be understood, in the sense that you have to follow the form and logic of the music with your mind for it to be comprehensible. I used to not like Mahler when it was too complex for me to understand. 
For Mahler, you have to know that he was remaking the symphonic form for Romanticism. Whereas Beethoven's symphonies are very carefully structured and have clear sections, Mahler's symphonic development style is "narrative" rather than merely "sonata." This means that motives come and go and that they will be transformed and superimposed beyond recognition. Think of the movement as a story with many climaxes that moves between poles of unity/plurality, dark/light, chamber/tutti orchestration, etc. It is all one long narrative arc. But to speak more specifically, you have to keep track of the motives and how they are changed and juxtaposed over time, which are all introduced at the beginning. There is the heartbeat motive, the fate motive, and the fanfare. Also, Alisa Weilerstein's brother, Joshua Weilerstein, has a classical music podcast called Sticky Notes, and there is an episode where he goes through Mahler's Ninth and you can hear sound clips of the motives. The boundaries between development and recapitulation are very ambiguous and are still not agreed upon, so again I think you have to use the idea of motivic narrative when listening. One interesting tidbit from Boulez's music lectures is a comment on Mahler's motives. Unlike the long melodies of Berlioz or Grieg or something, Mahler's motives are simple, short, and often have parallels to folk music—some might say they are even bad or crude, as many did during Mahler's own time. But this is actually the intention: the starting material needs to be so simple and almost kitschy so that the development can go so far and deep.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

This is a great symphonic movement, one of the greatest ever....I don't try to describe exactly what Mahler was thinking, exactly, but the structure is clear and most logical....there are a series of introductions, quiet, almost meditative passages, that buildup, rising to a sequence of climaxes....4 in all..each one of increasing drama and intensity.....perhaps it is Mahler's rising dread/denial of his own illness and mortality?? At the 4th climax, the most intense, the low brass powerfully intones the arrhythmia motif. It is there, undeniable!!.....there is another climax that follows, of less intensity....and then we hear the long, quieter music..almost chamber music in its exquisite expressiveness....is this acceptance of his condition, and destiny?? Maybe....
We cannot know exactly what was in Mahler's mind, but the clear structure of the movement certainly takes us on a plausible, quite logical journey, with great rising-falling action...the best I've ever heard this movement is Giulini/CSO. They make total sense of it. Walter/ColSO is good also...


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't doubt it is difficult to understand any movement of any Mahler symphony. 

The opening movement of Symphony 9 is a long threnody interrupted by abatements, philosophizing, even anger and terror, all common elements in his music, I think in total it is intended to set the mood for the symphony which was his swansong. He knew he had a bad heart and his days were probably numbered. He wasn't happy about that; you can hear that in the opening. The finale is more likely the actual swansong with the intervening movements, a dance and a burlesque, providing contrast between the lengthy opening and closing laments.

For me more troublesome is the even more enigmatic finale. I don't doubt its greatness and agree a slow version like Karajan brings out everything that is there. However, It is almost impossible for me not to become impatient with it, to hope it ends soon, and even to give up on it. My compromise was Boulez's 9th with Chicago that is "fast" in the finale but says everything. I can get through it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Who does? .


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Yes, yes, and yes … a lot of great comments here.

I imagine the first movement of the Mahler 9th as depicting a fellow sitting in his listening chair with a pair of headphones on, pondering the strange sounds of a late Mahler symphony. And when the music ends, the fellow is a bit sad that the music has ended, that the movement wasn't longer, and that there won't be much more new Mahler music to come …. But he also feels elated that he has had the wondrous experience of knowing this music, of suffering its prompted experiences, and, ultimately, of knowing life itself, the richness and fullness, the heartbreaks and joys, the idea of being alive and conscious in the vast universe and of having the capability of being aware of that very notion.

Sometimes, though, I just listen to the music.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I think we can all agree that it is music unlike anything that had ever been composed up to that point. It’s very psychological, almost like a journey into the mind of Freudian man at the turn of the century (perhaps not surprising considering Mahler consulted Freud for counseling in the midst of his various afflictions). Certainly it cannot be described as being any single emotion or mixture of emotions, but if I had to use one word to describe it it would be “valedictory.” There is a sense of bidding farewell to something, but this is mixed with a bittersweet beauty, regret, and embracing of the world. The movement could easily stand on its own as a masterpiece of a symphonic poem, but happily for us Mahler gave us three more stupendous movements. Simply my favorite symphony.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

larold said:


> My compromise was Boulez's 9th with Chicago that is "fast" in the finale but says everything. I can get through it.


Boulez/CSO is a great effort, esp the inside movements....very convincing in the cosmic first movement as well...it is vital that the "calms", the downs, between the stormy climaxes are sufficiently soft and mellow to provide the necessary contrast....


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## perdido34 (Mar 11, 2015)

BenG said:


> I love Mahler - especially his 6th and 2nd symphonies. And I like most of Mahler's 9th, but the first movement confuses me. I like the opening, but after that, there are lots of strange motifs played with weird orchestration and I don't understand what it is trying to convey. Can you maybe help me to understand what this music is about because I want to like it.


Check out prior episodes of the Sticky Notes podcast (done by Joshua Weilerstein). He spends several episodes on the Ninth. I have been listening to this symphony for decades, often score in hand, and still I learned some new things.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Forget any autobiographical ideas in this movement, don't worry about the liberal and debatable use of traditional sonata form, just let it wash over you. Mahler wrote many near-perfect movements, this one is about as good as it gets.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Oops, duplication, somehow.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> Forget any autobiographical ideas in this movement,...... just let it wash over you.....


Exactly, one can speculate what might have been Mahler's mindset, but we don't and can't really know...just follow the musical journey which Mahler creates so wonderfully, and effectively.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

So what? I do not get the Second Movement of Mahler's _Eighth_.

In Fairfax county not getting the First of Mahler's _Ninth_ is a misdemeanor with a fine of a dollar one thirty-eight.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

With Mahler, it may be that you're trying to hard to "get it".

Don't try so hard. Let it speak in its own way . . . stop analyzing it. 

It's not a destination, it's a journey.


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