# The Passing of Bernard Haitink



## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

I just found out that Bernard Haitink has passed away. Maybe some thoughts. As I was learning/buying Classical CD(I missed the LP era) it seemed that Haitink was not seen in the most positive light. There has been a greater reflection of his legacy. I don’t have a lot of Haitink recordings but I like what I have. Mahler 9 &DLVDE. Also his Beethoven cycle with the LSO on the LSO Live label. I find myself going back to these recordings. 

Anyone else have any thoughts?


----------



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

One of the greatest. I treasure the Concerts that I saw him conduct here in Chicago. A sad day


----------



## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

He was a great conductor. Bruckners Symphony No. 3 and Shostakovich No. 8 comes ad hoc to my mind.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

He had somewhat of a reputation as a "dull kapellmeister" in some circles, which is occasionally justified but he was certainly a great conductor, keeping alive the great Germanic tradition of Furtwängler, Klemperer, and Karajan. His Mahler 9 with the RCO is one of my favorite versions of my favorite symphony - it just sounds so "right" and the playing is sumptuous - and some of his live Bruckner is superb. Also enjoy his RVW and Debussy, neither of which sounds on paper like it would be up his alley but the phrasing and conceptions are impeccable. Rest in peace, maestro.


----------



## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

One of the most powerful performances I attended was a Bruckner 9th with Haitink and the Vienna Philharmonic. Heavy as it gets. The applause was almost as overwhelming as the performance, and the audience wasn't going to stop until he grabbed the concertmaster by the hand and dragged him and the rest of the orchestra offstage. I can't exaggerate how important his Shostakovich cycle was to me (and perhaps many others). It was a time when I had just started getting into classical music and Shostakovich, and the record/cd stores didn't have many options for his symphonies besides a few Russian orchestras and conductors I never heard of, as well as some small, regional U.S. orchestras...and then there was the Decca Haitink cycle with the Concertgebouw and London Philharmonic Orchestras. Furthermore, he seemed to be the only one recording the Shostakovich symphonies that I couldn't find, such as the 13th and 14th. Keep in mind, this was in the pre-internet, pre-Amazon days. My 1st recording of my favorite piano concerto, Beethoven's 4th, was a cassette of Haitink and Brendel (LPO?) performing the 3rd and 4th. Musicians seemed to love him, and he sure had a good run in Amsterdam.


----------



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> He had somewhat of a reputation as a "dull kapellmeister" in some circles, which is occasionally justified but he was certainly a great conductor, keeping alive the great Germanic tradition of Furtwängler, Klemperer, and Karajan. His Mahler 9 with the RCO is one of my favorite versions of my favorite symphony - it just sounds so "right" and the playing is sumptuous - and some of his live Bruckner is superb. Also enjoy his RVW and Debussy, neither of which sounds on paper like it would be up his alley but the phrasing and conceptions are impeccable. Rest in peace, maestro.


I bought into the "Dour Dutchman" slight until I saw him live. The most unforgettable concerts were Mahler 1 and Shostakovich 4.
My favorite recordings were his cycles of Shostakovich and Ralph Vaughn Williams. I believe he was the first non Russian and non British Conductor to make cycles of those two composers, and for me, confirmed their "International " Stature


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

For me personal these are one of his best, what you see is what you get.


----------



## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

He had his moments ... perhaps the finest being the RV Williams cycle on EMI (1980-90s)


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

He may not have been the most viscerally exciting conductor, but everything he did was very musical, thoughtful and beautiful. His recordings are by and large comfortable. He certainly could get the blood moving and make things exciting, but he was clearly lower key than some of his peers. Unlike some conductors he really only recorded music he loved and believed in. Even though most of his recordings have been released on CD, often multiple times, here's a complete Philips set that would be most welcome (and very, very heavy and expensive).


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

13hm13 said:


> He had his moments ... perhaps the finest being the RV Williams cycle on EMI (1980-90s)
> 
> View attachment 160395


I agree. I have two of the symphonies - the 5th and the "Sea" - and consider them as fine as any I've heard.


----------



## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

I never could understand Hurwitz bashing the RVW boxset, it's a very balanced and fine cycle. Some of his Mahler and Bruckner recordings are absolutely first-rate. He left a huge body of work well worth researching into.
RIP.


----------



## Guest (Oct 22, 2021)

When I first started listening to classical music (back in the days of the LP record) I didn't rate Haitink highly because he seemed too neutral. But as I became more experienced I valued him more and more highly, for his ability to balance the orchestra so that no voice was lost, for his ability to find the perfect tempo, to control dynamics to build crescendos that are powerful but not forced, to find just the right expressive touches. He was truly one of the greats.


----------



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I am impressed by Haitink's large repertoire, versatility, great part balance and tempo choices. I like his recordings of symphonies and concertos, especially from his Philips era with RCO. Here are some of my recommendations:
1. 1978-1980s recordings of Bruckner symphonies 3,4,5,7,8,9 with RCO/VPO on Philips
Especially #7-9 which are among my favorite recordings.
2. Mahler symphonies with RCO and BPO on Philips
Among them #3,9 with RCO and #1,6 with BPO are exceptionally good.
3. Debussy Orchestral Works Philips Duo
A well-known recording.
4. Wagner Preludes/Overtures with RCO late 1970s Philips
Powerful and sonorous recording.
5. His concertos recordings with Arrau, Szeryng, Grumiaux, Brendel, Ashkenazy etc. are legendary. He did the orchestral part perfectly with great details without losing the overall balance.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

A conductor who got better as he got older, for me. He left us with some superb recordings such as his last Beethoven 4th and 8th with the LSO.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

I have both the Shostakovich and RVW cycles, along with the Beethoven 3, 4 and 8 from the LSO Live cycle. I also recorded his televised Haydn 104 from the Proms in 2012. I particularly like the RVW which I've been enjoying this week and over the past few months.

I'm sorry to see him go.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

One of my favourite conductors. He was the one who introduced me to Mahler, both on LP (the 4th, CGO, Alexander, a gift from a friend) and a few months later on CD (the 4th, CGO, Ameling). RIP Maestro.


----------



## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

A very versatile conductor, imho.
I will cherish his legacy.

Rest in Peace, Bernard Haitink.


----------



## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

Very sad. His 5th Beethoven Concerto with Brendel is the first recording I've heard, and it's still one of my favorites. Very fruitful cooperation with Arrau, Szeryng, Grumiaux and other soloists of Philips. Quite an interesting Mahler and Bruckner. I consider him, of course, one of the three main Dutch conductors (together with Mengelberg and Van Beinum).
P.S. The era of the greats is almost gone...


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

As a Dutchman, I grew up with Haitink, he was the towering giant of the Dutch musical scene.
Those Christmas Matinee Mahler performances that Rogerx mentioned - those were truly magical events that introduced so many people to Mahler and the world of classical music in general. Now the presence of classical music on TV has whithered, disappeared altogether in the maelstrom of commercialism, it's hard to believe that those concerts were national happenings that gathered millions of people in front of their TV sets.
I've got the Philips CD box, and I think most of these performances beat his "official" studio recordings, of both the CGO and Berlin/Vienna. He was one of those conductors whose live recordings were often livelier than his studio offerings.

That said, when I started to discover other conductors and their work, Haitink slowly kind of vanished from my collection. The problem is that I can't name any genre or any composer that he took in his care - and that others didn't do better. More passionate, more flexible, more spontaneous. His Bruckner, that I once loved, sounds completely wrong to me now. Boring, slow, stiff, fragmentary, devoid of any tension or excitement.
I compared his Vaughan Williams to Boult's with the same results. His Shostakovich was trendsetting, but faded when more idiomatic recordings hit the market. His Beethoven was never anything special, then he became one of the pioneer of the fast and light "quasi-HIP" style with a traditional orchestra - but in his hands it sounded like an old man desperately trying to be young and - literally - hip.

Even his famous Mahler wasn't the best Mahler that the Concertgebouw ever did. That was Chailly's.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Simon23 said:


> The era of the greats is almost gone...


Is it? Aren't new "greats" just continuing to mature?


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

So sad. Saw him many times in concert and of course, bought a large number of his recordings. Thanks for everything, Uncle Bernie!


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

He had an extraordinarily wide range of repertoire far exceeding his great interest in Bruckner. While well known for Debussy, Mahler, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich and Bruckner Haitink's expertise in Beethoven and Mendelssohn, whose symphonic canon he recorded, was rarely discussed. Unlike many jet set conductors he seemed to have generalized abilities all over the place regardless of which orchestra he was with. I often thought of Haitink as a conductor the way I thought of Richard Crenna an actor: a person that never gave a bad performance. More on his life here https://www.askonasholt.com/bernard-haitink-1929-2021-announcement/


----------



## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

Forster said:


> Is it? Aren't new "greats" just continuing to mature?


Perhaps I misunderstand you - for example, please?


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

One of the very greats. His Bruckner deserves special mention but there were many composers who he was really excellent with (has there been mention yet of his Ravel and Debussy). He gave us so much by seeming to say nothing except "here is the music". His personality was similar - a really gentle man and a real gentleman. Like many conductors he got better and better. But I also find that as _I _mature as a listener his recordings _seem _to get better and better to me!


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Simon23 said:


> Perhaps I misunderstand you - for example, please?


The idea of "greats" tends to apply to those who've been around long enough to gain the title. There's a constant stream of conductors, all busy with their various orchestras live and recording, who, by the time they reach the same age as Haitink, could be regarded as "greats".

Unless I've misunderstood you, and the meaning of the word "greats"?


----------



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

This interpretation of Mahler's First (and from this symphony the first notes) converted me to classical music.






Mahler's Symphonies 1-5 Haitink Concertgebouw (in various recorded versions) I still deem to be among the best together with Mahler's 8th. But with Haitink's interpretation of Mahler's 6th, 7th & 9th I never felt close. For Bruckner I do prefer Jochum.


----------



## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

Forster said:


> The idea of "greats" tends to apply to those who've been around long enough to gain the title. There's a constant stream of conductors, all busy with their various orchestras live and recording, who, by the time they reach the same age as Haitink, could be regarded as "greats".
> 
> Unless I've misunderstood you, and the meaning of the word "greats"?


It's fine, I clarified only because of the quotes (new "greats").
As for the term "great" itself, we seem to understand it in different ways. For me, greatness has little to do with the length of a career. I.Kertesz was 44, G.Cantelli - 36, but they are both great. At the same time, other modern conductors can work for a very long time and not do anything outstanding. I do not name specific names, so as not to create holywar and off.


----------



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

From the Amsterdam newspaper Parool:
>>“He was one of the finest musicians of our time,” young Finnish conductor Klaus Mäkelä wrote on Twitter. Significantly, he uses the word musician; Haitink was indeed not someone who imposed his will on the orchestra members from a position of authority, but who actually made music with them.

Fellow conductor Ed Spanjaard can explain very precisely what made Haitink so good. “What I found impressive about Haitink is his presence, his humility, which at the same time commanded enormous respect, because he was steeped in those pieces that formed the core of his repertoire,” says Spanjaard. “And you know what was so good about that man? He was so damn good too. That may seem like an afterthought, but many of us are drifters. Just watch it. Inexperienced conductors in particular stand on that rostrum in the strangest positions.”

Taste
Werner Herbers, who played under Haitink for a long time as solo oboist of the Concertgebouw Orchestra, speaks from experience when he says that 'there is much to admire about Haitink'. “He had taste and he was a mood maker for an orchestra. It was always a pleasure to play under him. He had a very pleasant and clear stroke and natural timing. The time he took between rise and start was always just right, as were the lengths of the pauses between the parts. That is very important for musicians.”

“In Mahler's Third Symphony, for example, there is a part that starts with a difficult oboe solo and Haitink always gave the inset when you were still completely 'in' it. I have also experienced conductors who waited too long. Your reed will dry up and you will die of nerves!” said Herbers. “It is also very nice that he gives the musicians the feeling that they themselves have a contribution. He really made use of the individual potential of the musicians and showed his gratitude for that.”

Your purest sorcery
Conductor Jan Willem de Vriend considers Haitink above all to be a kind of miracle. “What made him so good is a great miracle. As a young boy I played under him, as a violinist, and then I was too overwhelmed to take it all in. During that time I also attended a rehearsal of his with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe – Brahms. He did so little and so much happened. It was pure magic. When you saw him conducting, you thought you could do it yourself. But of course nothing could be further from the truth.”

“When I think of Haitink, I think of my experiences in the European Youth Orchestra,” says Wilmar de Visser, double bassist of the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra. He points to the inexplicable miracle of Haitink, who could achieve great things with minimal gestures. “We were all still very young and were soaped, as it is called, by a very good rehearsal teacher, a real professional. But then Haitink came to stand in front of the orchestra and suddenly everything was completely different. From the first second the music started flowing and everything fell into place. Pure magic, I have no other word for it.”

Completely unique
Simon Reinink, general director of Het Concertgebouw, was also particularly impressed by the economy with which Haitink conducted. “In essence, that was inimitable. This is what experience does, I guess. As a conductor, at the age of thirty you think that you can do everything and at the age of forty you realize that you can't do anything at all. You don't start learning it until you're 50. Haitink's envious calm and concentration were his secret, I think. His musicianship and sound were completely unique. We have never had a greater conductor. Well, maybe Mengelberg.”

Writer Guus Kuijer perhaps summed it up best of all on Twitter: “When I hear the name Bernard Haitink, I hear beautiful music.”<<


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

A sad loss to all music lovers. He definitely got more refined and kept bettering himself in his later years. Always non-sensational, never idiosyncratic, definitely no quick thrill; but I love the subtlety and the refinement. Turn up the volume and you will hear the vision and the efforts put into every note. Everything makes sense!


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

TxllxT said:


> We have never had a greater conductor. Well, maybe Mengelberg."<<


I think Van Beinum was better.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Even though most of his recordings have been released on CD, often multiple times, here's a complete Philips set that would be most welcome (and very, very heavy and expensive).


Philips (er, Decca) already issued a lot of this material in this set (Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Schumann); I'm glad that I snapped it up when it was still available and affordable:


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> For me personal these are one of his best, what you see is what you get.


I have the CD version of this set, and it's some of Haitink's best Mahler.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_The idea of "greats" tends to apply to those who've been around long enough to gain the title._

Toscanini was considered one of the greatest ever in his 20s. Yet there are plenty of conductors that recorded and were known for many years and/or decades that did not earn such title. Edouard van Remoortel is one.

Some people say same about many of today's leading lights such as John Gardiner and Roger Norrington. Kurt Masur also went a lifetime at high profile orchestras without such accolades.

Haitink's gifts and abilities became known at a young age when he was projected with the likes of Colin Davis, Zubin Mehta, Lorin Maazel and others in the 1960s to lead the next generation of conductors. Whatever you choose to say about them you cannot deny they all reached a very high level of regard and all had top flight orchestral posts, among benchmarks often thought of as keys to greatness.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

My Discogs catalog currently gives me 35 hits for Haitink, including his Rachmaninoff concerti with Ashkenazy, all favorites of mine, and a Beethoven "Emperor" with the Concertgebouw-Orchester and pianist Claudio Arrau. As well there are readings of symphonies by Shostakovich, Mahler, Brahms, Vaughan Williams, the complete box set of Bruckner and all four by Schumann, all recordings which regularly spin on my stereo. Too, I see Debussy, a _Rite of Spring_, and several other 20th century works, the most unusual of which may be the vinyl disc featuring Symphony No. 2 by Peter Schat with Haitink leading the Concertgebouw Orchestra on the label Composers' Voice - CVS 1986/1. Or maybe it's the Musica Sinfonica, Op. 93 For Orchestra [1967] by Lex van Delden (Haitink leading the Royal Concertgebouw) in a 10-CD box set of Dutch composers titled _Forbidden Music In World War II_ on the label Etcetera - KTC 1530.

Among this listing of 35 are a number of box sets including the 7 CD compilation titled _The Art Of Bernard Haitink_ on Decca - 478 1429.

















It is to this collection that I today will turn to honor the late conductor and his music. There are plenty of great recordings (and music) in the set to choose from.

I think I'll start with the Richard Strauss piece: _Tod Und Verklärung_. Something tells me that is fitting for the occasion.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Too often we label a conductor "great" from the perspective of listeners and record collectors. What's more important is the conductor as seen by the orchestras he conducts. In that sense, Haitink was a great, really great, conductor. His knowledge of the music and his vast experience gave him an authority that eludes so many younger conductors who don't seem to care about the depth of their understanding. There are some guys (and gals) out there today who are quite fine, but given the state of classical these days most people will never know much about them. Tugan Sokhiev, Edward Gardner, Fabio Luisi, Robin Ticciati...superb conductors.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Simon23 said:


> It's fine, I clarified only because of the quotes (new "greats").
> [etc]





larold said:


> _The idea of "greats" tends to apply to those who've been around long enough to gain the title._
> 
> [etc]





mbhaub said:


> Too often we label a conductor "great" [etc]


In order not to risk disfiguring this tribute to Haitink thread, I started a separate discussion about 'great' conductors.

"Great" conductors?


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

He was a master of clarity and orchestral detail though I sometimes wished for a bit more emotional involvement from him. I particularly liked his Vaughan Williams Symphonies 3 and 5 with the London Philharmonic and his Mahler Third, Bruckner Ninth and Orchestral Debussy wiith the Amsterdam (Royal) Concertgebouw.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

If you want emotional engagement try this; one of the greatest 8ths I know. One of the great works in cover art too.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

RIP Maestro Haitink



> Too often we label a conductor "great" from the perspective of listeners and record collectors. What's more important is the conductor as seen by the orchestras he conducts. In that sense, Haitink was a great, really great, conductor. His knowledge of the music and his vast experience gave him an authority that eludes so many younger conductors who don't seem to care about the depth of their understanding.


Interestingly enough, Riccardo Muti mentioned the same thing in a 1999 interview I found on YouTube yesterday.


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

larold said:


> If you want emotional engagement try this; one of the greatest 8ths I know. One of the great works in cover art too.


I agree about the performance, but I fail to be impressed by communist agitprop.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

larold said:


> If you want emotional engagement try this; one of the greatest 8ths I know. One of the great works in cover art too.
> 
> View attachment 160413


I had indeed forgotten about Haitink's superb account of the composer's Eighth---certainly a riveting one. I do still own it, as well as the conductor's Fourth and Seventh, which had been my favorite works of the composer. At present though, it's difficult to say whether or not my taste for Shostakovich will ever be renewed.


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

My first Bruckner symphony cycle. Still one of my favourites. Dramatic, lively and energetic.








Also a great fifth with an amazing adagio.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

RobertJTh said:


> I agree about the performance, but I fail to be impressed by communist agitprop.


It's become a cliché but I find those soviet poster covers quite fitting. Whereas I can be mildly irritated by Bach cantatas with 15th century paintings as covers. For some reason, Bach rarely gets roughly contemporary paintings, it's usually 200 years earlier art.
FWIW it means "(Go) ahead! Victory is near!


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> It's become a cliché but I find those soviet poster covers quite fitting.


Well, there's my problem: I don't think this particular cover is fitting at all. Its mood, its purpose, it's the polar opposite of what Shostakovich' 8th really is. Just because the symphony was written during WWII doesn't mean that it's all about the banal, ugly reality of war. Shostakovich covered that already with the 7th, a very banal, ugly symphony (don't hit me). The 8th is an inwards journey, at most it reflects on the prevalent mood of the times. It doesn't even end in anything remotely resembling "victory", it's got the same kind of eerie, doubtful, exhausted "death clock" ending as the 4th and 15th.
Shostakovich' 7th, 8th and 9th got programmed recently as a "war symphony" trilogy. That's a really contemptible way of narrowing down the message of these works and make them digestible for the Star Wars generation. They did the same with Prokofiev's late piano sonatas. Utterly stupid.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Azol said:


> I never could understand Hurwitz bashing the RVW boxset, it's a very balanced and fine cycle.


Hurwitz bashes everything


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

wkasimer said:


> I have the CD version of this set, and it's some of Haitink's best Mahler.


We did watch the 5th last night. As dessert we had his goodbye concert form Amsterdam with the Radio Philharmonic .
At the and the public waited, the maestro laid jus baton down, closed the score and almost cried.
The audience going gave him almost 10 minutes of applause.


----------



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

From the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
>>On Friday morning, music centers around the world commemorated the death of Bernard Haitink with words of great respect. The Dutch top conductor died late Thursday evening in London, surrounded by his family. He was 92 years old. In a career spanning more than sixty years, with permanent positions in Hilversum, Amsterdam, London, Glyndebourne, Boston, Chicago and Dresden, Haitink grew into a world-class maestro.

The channels of BBC Radio 3 and NPO Radio 4 focused on Haitink's career throughout the day, and memories flooded in on social media. There were warm reports from the many orchestras and concert halls where he worked, and King Willem-Alexander also made himself heard. “We remember Bernard Haitink with admiration and gratitude. His drive and musical finesse are unforgettable.”

Mezzo-soprano Christianne Stotijn was chosen by Haitink in 2005 to perform Mahler with him in Paris.
“The fact that I was allowed to fill in for that concert really put me on the map as a singer. He didn't know me, had only heard a recording of a live recital, and decided to put his trust in me. That is such a great gift. I later learned that he was impressed by my confident, non-arrogant demeanor. He didn't like to doubt. His greatest gift was that he did not need words, he could show everything with his hands. With breathing he was always with you. He never said much, but he let me come to him every now and then. Then he would say: 'You move a lot, but you know that yourself'. That shows so much respect. He would never forcefully say, "Can't you sing a little softer here?" It always came naturally. That concert in Paris, that excitement in music-making, that was a moment bigger than myself. Together with the Matthäus-Passion in Boston, my fondest memory.”

Sjoerd van den Berg was deputy director of external relations at the Concertgebouw Orchestra.
“Haitink was a man without frills. He didn't want to be a maestro, and yet he did. He didn't want to do Mahler, and yet he did. He didn't want to do Bruckner, and he did. Fickle yes. As a deputy I was able to mediate between him and the board. He liked me, although he sometimes called me names. A man of few words, but when he spoke, he did it very well. Like when the government wanted to cut spending again. Or when he was awarded the House Order of Orange at Huis ten Bosch. Then he spoke beautifully, and by heart. His interaction with musicians was exemplary, he knew everyone and was interested in them. He said he felt most comfortable on the buck. There he could make music and nobody could hurt him. A taxi driver once said to him: 'If my mother heard who I have in the taxi and that I made that person pay, she would never forgive me'. At moments like that, he felt very appreciated again in Amsterdam. Memories are so many. Shostakovich's Eighth Symphony at the BBC Proms in London, the Christmas Matinees in Amsterdam. Unforgettable.”

Jörgen van Rijen has been solo trombonist of the Concertgebouw Orchestra since 1997.
“On a day like today, there is a lot of contact between the musicians. We are sad, but there is also resignation to such a beautiful and full life. I was just in our RCO House for a while. A register of condolence has been opened there, and quite a few musicians from the orchestra were present there. The need to share and talk is definitely there. It was always a party in the orchestra when Haitink came, everyone looked forward to it. That was because he gave us a lot of confidence. He appreciated his musicians and gave us plenty of space. We felt freedom, not fear. If there was any bumbling between him and the orchestra's conductor, we didn't notice it on stage. It may sound strange, but his personality alone created a different sound in the orchestra. I've also played in orchestras in New York and Lucerne, and when he came to conduct there, the same thing happened. His facial expression and his way of moving made the whole orchestra sound more beautiful, warmer and deeper. Magic yes, he could conjure magic. He knew what he wanted from a Mahler or Bruckner symphony, but he was also very flexible in that regard. He incorporated the input of the musicians into his vision, and so nothing of that magic was ever lost. Honesty to the music was paramount. All the time. He started from peace and serenity and then played with sound and color in an incredible way. That is why he suited this orchestra and this hall so well.”<<


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

RobertJTh said:


> Well, there's my problem: I don't think this particular cover is fitting at all. Its mood, its purpose, it's the polar opposite of what Shostakovich' 8th really is. Just because the symphony was written during WWII doesn't mean that it's all about the banal, ugly reality of war. Shostakovich covered that already with the 7th, a very banal, ugly symphony (don't hit me). The 8th is an inwards journey, at most it reflects on the prevalent mood of the times. It doesn't even end in anything remotely resembling "victory", it's got the same kind of eerie, doubtful, exhausted "death clock" ending as the 4th and 15th.
> Shostakovich' 7th, 8th and 9th got programmed recently as a "war symphony" trilogy. That's a really contemptible way of narrowing down the message of these works and make them digestible for the Star Wars generation. They did the same with Prokofiev's late piano sonatas. Utterly stupid.


I can agree with that. I was speaking more generally. Of course it's true that the 8th is more of an anti-war symphony. OTOH the Great Patriotic War against Fascism was something everyone in the SU could rally behind, so I am not sure if one should put too much distance between the crude Victory, Death to Fascism etc. posters and Shostakovich.


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

As a tribute to Haitink, I decided to listen to this. It was once an elegy for a king, today it can be an tribute for a musical sovereign.






... at least, that's what I thought. Halfway I stopped this slow, miserable, disjointed and utterly boring performance and switched to Barenboim.


----------



## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

For a tribute to Haitink, and avoiding Bruckner and/or Mahler, maybe this one is a better choice.






Schubert: _Rosamunde_, with the Concertgebouw Orkest and Aafje Heynis. Issued in 1965.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Haitink was well-measured, and reliable; very solid; always faithful to the music. Haitink was a master of the monster symphony cycles. As far as I know Haitink is the ONLY conductor who recorded complete Mahler, Bruckner, and Shostakovich symphony cycles. Karajan did all of Bruckner, incomplete Mahler, and only one of Shostakovich (#10). Bernstein did all of Mahler (X2!), incomplete Shostakovich; and only one Bruckner (#9). Solti did complete Bruckner and Mahler; but incomplete Shostakovich. Ozawa did complete Mahler but incomplete Bruckner and Shostakovich. Russian conductors such as Barshai, Rostropovich, and Maxim Shostakovich recorded all of Shostakovich but only some or none of Mahler and Bruckner. Mravinsky, Ormandy, and Stokokowski only recorded incomplete cycles of all three. Haitink gets the trifecta. 

My condolences to Bernard Haitink's family and friends.


----------



## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

I love Haitink - he was one of the most consistent conductors I know in the repertoire I like (behind Jochum). He didn't descend into madness to 'make' the great music he was directing better and his readings always struck a fine balance between weight, drive, crispness, resonance - factors which pull in different directions - with his tempos never jarring or ponderous. 

I value highly his:

- Beethoven Symphonies (concertgebouw)
- Brahms Symphonies (concertgebouw)
- Beethoven Piano Concertos (with Perahia)
- Bruckner Symphonies
- Vaughan Williams Symphonies
- Shostakovich Symphonies


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I heard Haitink conduct a number of times - the first time was in the late 60s, when he led the Concertgebouw in Bruckner 7 at Eastman Theater in Rochester NY....
The last time was a Bruckner 9 in Chicago, c 2007 or so...

The B9 was very good, and he managed an effect in the final movement that I've never heard before or since....the whole concluding section of the finale was somehow set off, clearly marked off as the _closing_....a long, gradual diminuendo, a final "farewell" that was very moving and convincing...It was something with the phrasing or the timing, I don't recall exactly, but I just remember it being quite special. 
Haitink is always good, solid, consistent. Sometimes he's a bit laid back for my taste...but paired with the right orchestra, the results can be very excellent.....some of his late Chicago recordings are very fine - Mahler 1,2,3,6...Shostakovich 4, Ravel - Daphnis and Chloe...just listened to Mahler 3/VI again - really terrific, one of the best....

Haitink with Chicago was a good combination - Haitink can be a bit laid back, non-aggressive [he definitely was not a "driver", like Solti or Mravinsky]. The CSO plays with a natural aggression and hard-hitting, accented approach.....the combination of the two styles produced excellent results....the same could be said about the Giulini/CSO connection....Giulini's more lyrical, long-line, more legato approach combined perfectly with the CSO's vigorous, aggressive style.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

RogerWaters said:


> - Beethoven Piano Concertos (with Perahia)


I think that his set with Haitink and the Dresden Staatskapelle is even better.


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

wkasimer said:


> I think that his set with Haitink and the Dresden Staatskapelle is even better.


How about Brendel/Haitink?


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

With Haitink’s death, would it be fair to say that we have lost the last of the “big name” (the generation after what I consider “golden age”) conductors who dominated Decca/DG/EMI, etc. from the late 60s to mid-1990s? It would appear we are now fully in the era of “up and coming stars.”


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Not entirely. Ricardo Muti is certainly a fine, beloved conductor with a terrific recorded legacy. In fact, Muti probably has more top-choice recordings than Haitink. Ricardo Chailly is a conductor of stature, too, but I'll leave it to others to argue whether he belongs in the highest echelons. Herbert Blomstedt is still active, still brilliant, but can't be for much longer. Those three really got going in the late '70s, so may not meet your criteria.

Another I would certainly include in the list of great conductors of the Golden Age is American Leonard Slatkin. He started recording in the early '70s with those fine Rachmaninoff recordings. Since then he's gone on to record the Vaughan Williams symphonies that many people (myself included) is the definitive set. Same with the Tchaikovsky ballets: exceptional and as good as any. His Elgar is excellent, much, much better than Haitink. In the Tchaikovsky symphonies, Slatkin and Haitink are both second-rate. Slatkin's repertoire is far wider than Haitink's, and his ability to build orchestras is amazing. Slatkin sure got around on the labels: Vox, RCA, EMI, Telarc...and he's no youngster either. It will be interesting to see who of the up-and-comers rise to the heights in the next 10 to 20 years. Given the state of recording it's going to be a tough climb.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Haitink’s recording for Philips of Brahms’ 2 & 3 with the Boston Symphony is second to none. Very patrician. Less impressive are 1 & 4. I also treasure his recording of LvB’s 5th Piano Concerto (Emperor) for Sony, with Perahia and the Concertgebouw. Nothing short of sublime. Again, I am less impressed by the remaining four. There is much more to recommend, of course.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

RobertJTh said:


> How about Brendel/Haitink?


Not a big fan of Brendel here or elsewhere. Both Schiff and Haitink are more energized than usual on the Teldec set.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> With Haitink's death, would it be fair to say that we have lost the last of the "big name" (the generation after what I consider "golden age") conductors who dominated Decca/DG/EMI, etc. from the late 60s to mid-1990s? It would appear we are now fully in the era of "up and coming stars."


Blomstedt is still alive but he was not quite such a big name. Muti is a bit younger but was a big name since the 1970s, so was Barenboim although he was better known as a pianist until the 1990s.


----------



## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

RIP. I don't know a lot about Haitink's entire recorded legacy but I have and love his Bruckner symphonies set (RCO). Also I remember a Brendel/Haitink LP of Liszt's Totentanz and piano concertos that I almost wore out way, waaaaay back when. Alas I sold it along with my other LPs over a decade ago.


----------



## Ganz Allein (Mar 26, 2021)

I mostly know Haitink through that "Symphony Edition" box put out by Decca a few years ago with the Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Schumann, and Tchaikovsky cycles. Haitink is an impressively consistent conductor, even if his recordings don't often reach "reference recording" status for me. The exception is his recording of Tchaikovsky 5, which has ruined every other recording of the piece for me. If I want to hear Tchaikovsky 5, I will always reach for the Haitink, as every other reading sounds completely wrong to me!


----------



## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

When I was first starting to really explore classical music, Haitink was one of the few conductors that I would look for when trying out a new piece. One of his recordings was almost always a really good one. Here are some of his recordings/performances that I would recommend:

Haydn: Symphony No. 96 with the LSO
Beethoven: Piano concertos with Arrau and the RCO (also with Schiff and the Staatskapelle Dresden)
Brahms: Piano Concertos with Arrau and the RCO (Symphony Nos. 3 and 4 and Academic Festival Overture on same set are also amazing)
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No. 3 with Ashkenazy and the RCO
Mahler: Symphony No. 1 with the BPO
R. Strauss: Ein Heldenleben with the CSO

Thanks for the music, maestro!


----------



## Vahe Sahakian (Mar 9, 2018)

I have a good number of Haitink recordings, I always preferred the sound of RCO compared to other orchestras. One recording that has always impressed me is Shostakovich 11, it is an unusually intense interpretation and very well recorded (1985), the next in line if I have to have another is Shstakovich 8, again very powerful performance.


----------



## bluto32 (Apr 25, 2015)

I was very saddened to hear of Haitink's passing: I would say he was one of the most consistently excellent conductors. He kept his orchestra together perfectly, and didn't try to make his mark by messing around with tempi as many conductors often do.

I agree about his 1980s Shostakovich 8: I was first made aware of this recording in the GMG forum a few years ago, and it is truly marvellous and in great sound. The 3rd movement (sometimes referred to as "tanks") can either drag a bit with other conductors, or be played so fast that the trombones just can't keep up. Haitink hits the sweet spot perfectly. (The other movements are all superbly played, too.)

The other two recordings of his I treasure most are also with the Concertgebouw in the 1980s:

Beethoven's 3rd piano concerto with Perahia - just gorgeous, with soloist and orchestra perfectly in sync throughout. The whole cycle is super.
Rachmaninov's 1st piano concerto with Ashkenazy - electric introduction by soloist and orchestra, nailing the climaxes, and a particularly memorable dream-like sequence around 4m30s into 2nd movement.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> With Haitink's death, would it be fair to say that we have lost the last of the "big name" (the generation after what I consider "golden age") conductors who dominated Decca/DG/EMI, etc. from the late 60s to mid-1990s? It would appear we are now fully in the era of "up and coming stars."


Seiji Ozawa is still with us.


----------



## mollig (Nov 20, 2021)

Like other people, I find Haitink has some wonderful Shostakovich (5 and 13 would be stand outs for me), and his Mahler 9 is still my reference recording, the sound is gorgeous considering how it old it is and it's incredibly rich and balanced and moving without having any cheap melodrama.


----------



## Shea82821 (Nov 19, 2021)

Sad to see the old man go, honestly. Haitink was one of the first "big name" conductors to catch my interest as a kid. Alongside, of course, Bernstein, Karajan and Blomstedt. His recording of Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony - I can hear Hurwitz steaming already - is still a nostalgic favourite of mine. Introduced me to the wonderful music of that composer. Never can forget the score-video ollavogala posted all those years ago. Happy times...I better stop there before I feel old :lol: 

And recently I've come to like his Shostakovich and Bruckner, Beethoven too. But that Sea Symphony he did, still is and always will be, my ideal of his conductorship.


----------



## cyberstudio (Mar 31, 2019)

Had the RCO complete Mahler symphonies on blu ray and the 9th is Haitink's... Watching now...


----------

