# Baritone High C



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I read that Leonard Warren, who had one of the biggest, darkest baritone voices around, could sing High C and would sing tenor arias walking home with friends after singing earlier in the evening. I am curious if a high C by a baritone would be bright and shiny like your typical tenor C5 or would it be a darker sound like the rest of the baritone voice?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It would presumably sound like the rest of the singer's voice. Baritones are occasionally asked for high A, and a number of baritones have been able to vocalize higher. I seem to recall Sherrill Milnes as having exceptional high notes early in his career. He never sounded tenorish to me. It's very individual; Domingo started and ended (has he ended yet? ) as a baritone but never sounded like one, while Battistini sang baritone but had a brilliant timbre and limited low notes.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> It would presumably sound like the rest of the singer's voice. Baritones are occasionally asked for high A, and a number of baritones have been able to vocalize higher. I seem to recall Sherrill Milnes as having exceptional high notes early in his career. He never sounded tenorish to me. It's very individual; Domingo started and ended (has he ended yet? ) as a baritone but never sounded like one, while Battistini sang baritone but had a brilliant timbre and limited low notes.


I love Jonas Kaufmann but he has a very baritonal sound to me throughout his range. It must be that heldentenor quality. I am not aware that he ever has trouble with high notes.
'


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

I never particularly liked Sherrill Milnes' later voice ... OK, I actively disliked it. I think he tended to go flat or wobble to try to reach those acuti. Nonetheless, he could sing some good high notes early in his career. On his CD of _Rigoletto_ at the climax "Ah! Ah! La maledizione!" which is in C-sharp minor, he sings not only the 6th degree of the scale but the 7th, very tacky and not at all in keeping with the drama, just to show everybody he can sing a high B. It's enormous. So his version goes (per syllable) E-E-E-E-D#-C#-G#-B-A-G#>>>>>C# (Ah, ah, la ma le di zio o-o-o- ne). On his debut album he sings a Verdi aria, I think it's "É gettata la mia sorte" from _Attila,_ with a wonderful high B-flat at the close.

Let's all pray that Domingo (whose tenor voice with a baritone sound I loved--50 years ago) is finished. With everything.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barelytenor said:


> I never particularly liked Sherrill Milnes' later voice ... OK, I actively disliked it. I think he tended to go flat or wobble to try to reach those acuti. Nonetheless, he could sing some good high notes early in his career. On his CD of _Rigoletto_ at the climax "Ah! Ah! La maledizione!" which is in C-sharp minor, he sings not only the 6th degree of the scale but the 7th, very tacky and not at all in keeping with the drama, just to show everybody he can sing a high B. It's enormous. So his version goes (per syllable) E-E-E-E-D#-C#-G#-B-A-G#>>>>>C# (Ah, ah, la ma le di zio o-o-o- ne). On his debut album he sings a Verdi aria, I think it's "É gettata la mia sorte" from _Attila,_ with a wonderful high B-flat at the close.
> 
> Let's all pray that Domingo (whose tenor voice with a baritone sound I loved--50 years ago) is finished. With everything.






 Aria from Attila


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Rigoletto Baritone Cage Match*


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Aria from Attila


It's nice that Milnes had a high Bb, but Piero Cappuccilli had one too:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

I always thought that Tom Jones would have made a great "bari-tenor". There's a B-flat at the end of _Thunderball:_






I believe he's taken it down to an A-flat these days, but he's still impressive for his age.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I always thought that Tom Jones would have made a great "bari-tenor". There's a B-flat at the end of _Thunderball:_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He would probably say that it's not unusual.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> I always thought that Tom Jones would have made a great "bari-tenor". There's a B-flat at the end of _Thunderball:_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think he and Elvis could have had careers in opera if they had undergone training. Both had beautiful voices and big ranges. The problem is you'd never be able to see their pelvis moves in opera, so it is for the best.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I think he and Elvis could have had careers in opera if they had undergone training. Both had beautiful voices and big ranges. The problem is you'd never be able to see their pelvis moves in opera, so it is for the best.


What about Freddie? He had a crazy range and a fantastic voice overall.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I read that Leonard Warren, who had one of the biggest, darkest baritone voices around, could sing High C and would sing tenor arias walking home with friends after singing earlier in the evening. I am curious if a high C by a baritone would be bright and shiny like your typical tenor C5 or would it be a darker sound like the rest of the baritone voice?


I'm guessing that John Charles Thomas might have had the range - an unusual voice.

I'm wondering if Ruffo recorded anything that high?

Conversely, I'm not sure that Ramon Vinay had a C5 and he had a go at tenor, baritone and bass


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Revitalized Classics said:


> I'm guessing that John Charles Thomas might have had the range - an unusual voice.
> 
> I'm wondering if Ruffo recorded anything that high?
> 
> Conversely, I'm not sure that Ramon Vinay had a C5 and he had a go at tenor, baritone and bass


Vinay always sounded great when I used to have Met Opera Radio. I know he sang Wagner. I don't believe there is a C5 in Wagner for tenor. I am not the one to answer this but I'd be willing to bet that many tenor roles only go up to B.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Vinay always sounded great when I used to have Met Opera Radio. I know he sang Wagner. I don't believe there is a C5 in Wagner for tenor. I am not the one to answer this but I'd be willing to bet that many tenor roles only go up to B.


Siegfried has two high Cs in _Gotterdammerung._ Both are very brief and can be more or less faked, but the second one - on Siegfried's cry of "Hoiho, hoihe! in Act 3, Scene 2, can make an effect if the tenor is up to it. Here's a competition among heldentenors:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Siegfried has two high Cs in _Gotterdammerung._ Both are very brief and can be more or less faked, but the second one - on Siegfried's cry of "Hoiho, hoihe! in Act 3, Scene 2, can make an effect if the tenor is up to it. Here's a competition among heldentenors:


I figured you'd know;-)


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Revitalized Classics said:


> I'm guessing that John Charles Thomas might have had the range - an unusual voice.
> 
> I'm wondering if Ruffo recorded anything that high?
> 
> Conversely, I'm not sure that Ramon Vinay had a C5 and he had a go at tenor, baritone and bass


Sorta like Placimingo. :lol:


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Siegfried has two high Cs in _Gotterdammerung._ Both are very brief and can be more or less faked, but the second one - on Siegfried's cry of "Hoiho, hoihe! in Act 3, Scene 2, can make an effect if the tenor is up to it. Here's a competition among heldentenors:


First and last renditions have that glorious ringing high note, Melchior in his prime years 1936 and the 1973 Jean Cox is very nice, he has many 1970s Bayreuth Rings available at operadepot.......

Svanholm 1956 very late in his career, still a brilliant tone up top......

Suthaus 1952 running on empty, sounds tired late in the opera, this is hopefully an off night


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

DarkAngel said:


> First and last renditions have that ringing high note, Melchior in his prime years 1936 and the 1973 Jean Cox is very nice, he has many 1970s Bayreuth Rings available at operadepot


Cox is also Siegfried on the 1968 RING conducted by Sawllisch, issued by Myto. He may not be the second coming of Melchior, but he's a vastly underrated and under-recorded Wagnerian tenor.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I read that Leonard Warren, who had one of the biggest, darkest baritone voices around, could sing High C and would sing tenor arias walking home with friends after singing earlier in the evening. I am curious if a high C by a baritone would be bright and shiny like your typical tenor C5 or would it be a darker sound like the rest of the baritone voice?


I take Warren's high C with a grain of salt because I believe he was a natural tenor artificially darkening his voice. Like Kaufmann except Kaufmann remained a tenor lol

Which makes me wonder...if Jonas Kaufmann came along right now as an unknown baritone, would anyone question his voice type?


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> I take Warren's high C with a grain of salt because I believe he was a natural tenor artificially darkening his voice. Like Kaufmann except Kaufmann remained a tenor lol
> 
> Which makes me wonder...if Jonas Kaufmann came along right now as an unknown baritone, would anyone question his voice type?


Great question! I'm not sure.

Are there any Warren recordings you can point to where the tenor in disguise quality is particularly evident? He's not a singer I am that familiar with and I would love to explore this.

N.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

The Conte said:


> Great question! I'm not sure.
> 
> Are there any Warren recordings you can point to where the tenor in disguise quality is particularly evident? He's not a singer I am that familiar with and I would love to explore this.
> 
> N.


The recording that reveals the most to me is not of his singing, but rather his speaking. You might remember it from another thread:






This interview tells me that either his speaking voice or his singing voice is manufactured, and I think it's clear that he speaks in a very natural way. Also, for the darkest baritone on record to lack low notes and have an extended top tells me again that what we hear on records is not his natural singing voice.

I also read the book Leonard Warren: American Baritone, and some of the reviews of the time and description of his technique convinced me further. I believe that it was his unique physiology (unusually enormous chest) that allowed him to sing in a way that's totally unique to him.


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