# The Viola



## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Why all the jokes about Violas? I think it is a beautiful instrument. Listening to a lovely Viola Sonata.

Brahms Viola & Piano Sonata in D Major Opus 78

Roberto Diaz Viola 
Jeremy Denk Piano


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Yes, it is a lovely instrument. I would also recommend Schnittke's fabulous Viola Concerto.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Viola jokes exist because no one can actually hear the viola unless the part is very prominent or the listener has a good/well trained ear.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well if one can't get a job in an orchestra playing the violin, learning the viola increases the odds.

A note to Harold: Must you go to Italy to audition for an orchestral viola job?


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Judith said:


> Why all the jokes about Violas?


they get made up by violinists with nothing better to do on a Friday night


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Yeah, why all the viola jokes. It's not as if viola playing doesn't have a good pedigree. Mozart played the viola in chamber music (often with Joseph Haydn on first violin!) I'm one of the many without a music degree but I certainly didn't miss the viola part when listening to the Grumiaux trio play Mozart this morning. I mean there are only three instruments, how are you going to miss it?! (Unless the viola player is still in the bar...)


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

I think the Walton Viola Concerto is the most profound of his three concertos


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Amazingly enough  hpowders might be onto something here! There is a perception among players that the ranks of violists are swelled by "demoted" violinists, just as cellists not making the front ranks of cellists often seek a second career in the bass section. I've seen the latter happen in a conservatory setting — a decent cellist being redirected and, eventually, becoming a professional bassist. Then there is also the fact that in Classical Era music, violists often end up sawing away on uninteresting harmonic parts and inner lines while the violinists get all the interesting figuration and melodies. The violinists ask: Why do they put up with this?, and then, as Nate notes, they sit around in bars on Friday night making jokes about violists. I've actually seen this too.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2016)

It is undoubtedly true,The orchestra is a mirror of society


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

EdwardBast said:


> Amazingly enough  ..There is a perception among players that the ranks of violists are swelled by "demoted" violinists


"perception"???

in my life spent among musicians, I always accepted that as a statistically proven fact

besides, why start a small child off on viola? its too big. you start them on a small scale violin, and then they move to the viola later

but for all the jokes, all the good violists I've even known chose the viola, even though they started on violin when they were very young. In fact, most of them also played violin to pick up extra work at weddings and stuff like that


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I like Morton Feldman's The Viola in My Life. Very cool title and music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Nowhere is the writing for viola more beautiful than in the second movement of Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola.

Hear it with Abraham Skernick on viola and Rafael Druian on violin with George Szell conducting the Cleveland Orchestra if you can.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Nowhere is the writing for viola more beautiful than in the second movement of Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola.
> 
> Hear it with Abraham Skernick on viola and Rafael Druian on violin with George Szell conducting the Cleveland Orchestra if you can.


Yes, Mozart treats the violin and viola with equal respect in the Sinfonia Concertante. He doesn't make the viola play "second fiddle" to the violin!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Yes, Mozart treats the violin and viola with equal respect in the Sinfonia Concertante. He doesn't make the viola play "second fiddle" to the violin!


It is one of Mozart's greatest compositions and certainly is no joke!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Nate Miller said:


> "perception"???
> 
> in my life spent among musicians, I always accepted that as a statistically proven fact
> 
> ...


I started on the viola straight away. The violin never really appealed to me.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

a question for the viola players....

do you ever play solo violin works transcribed for your instrument?

I honestly don't know of any editions of violin works transcribed for viola. I haven't made a formal study, but in 40 years among musicians I never heard of such a thing. I know the Bach cello Suites have been transcribed for viola, but that's sort of trivial since a viola is an octave above the cello. 

so that's my question for those who play: do you play violin works on your viola


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I started on the viola straight away. The violin never really appealed to me.


were you older than a young child when you started?

I was talking about professional players that I've personally known, but fair enough. I think I worded that such that one counter example is all that was required, so well spotted


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Nate Miller said:


> a question for the viola players....
> 
> do you ever play solo violin works transcribed for your instrument?
> 
> ...


I don't play a string instrument--I play the piano. Sorry to intrude on the thread as a non-string person! I just want to mention that I have accompanied a violist playing a transcription of the Franck Sonata in A Major.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Bettina said:


> I don't play a string instrument--I play the piano. Sorry to intrude on the thread as a non-string person! I just want to mention that I have accompanied a violist playing a transcription of the Franck Sonata in A Major.


no, please...intrude away...

talking with somebody who plays is always welcome

that's good to know., BTW. I didn't know if there were any transcriptions for the viola of any of the violin repertoire.

From the violists that I've known, my guess is that there isn't a whole lot because if they wanted to play violin music, they would just pick up a violin and play it on that....but its always fun to talk with violists about their instrument


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Many years ago, a musically uninitiated student who was working backstage at the college arts center, mentioned to Guarneri Quartet's violist Michael Tree that his viola seemed smaller than that of the Hungarian Quartet, who had played there a few weeks earlier. With a straight face, Tree assured the student that venerable stringed instruments shrank as they aged -- that in fact most violins started out as violas!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

...............deleted. Info already here.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Nate Miller said:


> a question for the viola players....
> 
> do you ever play solo violin works transcribed for your instrument?
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not a particularly good violist - I took lessons for less than half a year just to learn how to play, and then continued on my own, playing in orchestra. My answer to your question is "Yes" - unfortunately, there's just not enough good viola repertoire, but there's a lot of good violin repertoire available. So occasionally, I'll look for viola transcriptions of violin pieces I like, if they're not there, I'll just look at the score for violin and transcribe by myself.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I have a recording of Elgar's Cello Concerto rearranged for Viola, inevitably by Lionel Tertis. Interesting, but not a great use of the instrument.
The same CD has Bax's Phantasy for Viola and Orchestra, which is gorgeous. 
What about composers who played viola? I can come up with Vaughan Williams, Britten and Hindemith. Any others??


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

musicrom said:


> Well, I'm not a particularly good violist - I took lessons for less than half a year just to learn how to play, and then continued on my own, playing in orchestra. My answer to your question is "Yes" - unfortunately, there's just not enough good viola repertoire, but there's a lot of good violin repertoire available. So occasionally, I'll look for viola transcriptions of violin pieces I like, if they're not there, I'll just look at the score for violin and transcribe by myself.


awesome! thanks for posting that, its good to hear from a violist

I'm for anyone who does their own transcribing, too, so good for you! :tiphat:


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Nate Miller said:


> were you older than a young child when you started?
> 
> I was talking about professional players that I've personally known, but fair enough. I think I worded that such that one counter example is all that was required, so well spotted


I was 12, so not such a young child I suppose.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Nate Miller said:


> a question for the viola players....
> 
> do you ever play solo violin works transcribed for your instrument?
> 
> ...


I have a viola transcription of Bach's Partitas and Sonaatas for solo violin that I used to play in my spare time. The double stops required of the violin in those pieces are much harder to pull off on viola.

Much more common though is for violists to play transcriptions of Bach's Cello Suites. Those are practically standard repertoire for any violist that went through a certain number of years in private lessons. Same with Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata, which was written for the now pretty much extinct arpeggione, but is commonly transcribed and played by violists and cellists.

As for concertos and such, it might be fun to play around with transcriptions of violin concertos in ones spare time, but it's not feasible to actually perform them because the projection of the viola is not as loud as the violin and concertos written for violas must be carefully orchestrated to fit that need. Performing a violin concerto whose orchestration is fitted to the projection powers of the violin wouldn't do.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

violadude said:


> I have a viola transcription of Bach's Partitas and Sonaatas for solo violin that I used to play in my spare time. The double stops required of the violin in those pieces are much harder to pull off on viola.
> 
> Much more common though is for violists to play transcriptions of Bach's Cello Suites. Those are practically standard repertoire for any violist that went through a certain number of years in private lessons. Same with Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata, which was written for the now pretty much extinct Arpeggione, but is commonly transcribed and played by violists and cellists.
> 
> As for concertos and such, it might be fun to play around with transcriptions of violin concertos in ones spare time, but it's not feasible to actually perform them because the projection of the viola is not as loud as the violin and concertos written for violas must be carefully orchestrated to fit that need. Performing a violin concerto whose orchestration is fitted to the projection powers of the violin wouldn't do.


awesome post. That's the kind of thing you can only get from a violist.

I never would have thought about the double stops, but you're right. they would be a lot harder to keep in tune.

This is the kind of stuff I love to see get talked about...players talking about the playing of the music


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

For some crazy reason, when I was in my 30s, I decided to find out if I could become even somewhat competent at playing an instrument, despite my lifelong incompetence at working with my hands. Due to allergies and associated breathing problems, woodwinds and brass instruments were out of the question. Ultimately, I chose the humble viola. I took lessons for a few years and finally got to the point that I didn't quite sound like I was strangling a cat when I was playing it, but I eventually reached a brick wall (I could not master vibrato). I will never become a virtuoso. Maybe if I had discovered it when I was a child, I would have had more success, but that is just mere speculation; there is no way to find out for certain. Incidentally, I also bought a violin and used it occasionally for practice. Since the fingering is essentially the same, and the tuning is a fifth higher, it can't hurt to practice on both instruments. However, although I like the tone of my violin, I have always preferred the deeper and richer sound of the viola.

I still have these instruments, but I haven't touched them in some time. Maybe I should dig them out of the closet and see if I can make a sound that doesn't sound like I am strangling a cat. If I have lost what little technique I acquired from my previous lessons, maybe I should try again; I have been looking for something to do in my spare time, and viola lessons might well be more productive than guzzling booze in the local bar.

Although I don't play the viola these days, I enjoy listening to chamber music performed by competent violists. The Brahms viola sonatas are favorites, and I also enjoy the Bach solo cello pieces played on viola.


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## kartikeys (Mar 16, 2013)

It's the viola da gamba but I am sharing 
because I was listening to it and it's a fine 
composition.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

The viola may be the most underrated instrument in the whole orchestra. However, if you remove the viola from an orchestra, the music will sound empty and unfulfilling. The complementary role of the viola to the whole string section, especially to the violin should not be overlooked. I think the viola glorifies the violin and magnifies the unique character of the string section. 

Unfortunately, many view 2nd fiddle is less than than the 1st fiddle and viola is even less than the 2nd fiddle. 

"The beauty of a flower is accompanied by the leaves." - Chinese Proverb.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Of course, Brahms transcribed his two great Clarinet Sonatas for viola and piano, though as an ex-clarinet player, I do prefer the clarinet with piano in this beautiful, melancholy late Brahms music.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Of course, Brahms transcribed his two great Clarinet Sonatas for viola and piano, though as an ex-clarinet player, I do prefer the clarinet with piano in this beautiful, melancholy late Brahms music.


I didn't know that you used to play the clarinet. It's a wonderful instrument. I particularly like the E-flat clarinet.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I didn't know that you used to play the clarinet. It's a wonderful instrument. I particularly like the E-flat clarinet.


I was strictly B-Flat. But the E-Flat Clarinet is a nice compact size. Very handy.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm about to listen to Martinu's Rhapsody-Concerto for Viola & Orchestra. And his double concerto for two string orchestras, piano & timpani is a wild ride!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)




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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mozart was inspired by an extra viola to write some of his greatest chamber music-his String Quintets, written for string quartet and second viola. The G minor, C minor, C Major, D Major and E Flat Major string quintets are greater than any of his string quartets, in my opinion.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

In the field of concertos, Holmboe´s belongs to one of the lesser known, yet quite spectacular ones, right from the start:





Some other, obvious choices are Schnittke´s tragic one, Walton´s, Martinu´s (already mentioned), Takemitsu´s, and Bruch´s Double Concerto with Clarinet


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