# Do you enjoy minimalism or do you think its dull background music



## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

What do you think about this music that goes on and on and is designed to lull you into sleep or put you in a trance. When all music has become background music and peoples attention spans have been considerably reduced....is the production of this music in your opinion ethical? Do you think philip glass will have longevity.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I am not sure you are describing minimalism. It sounds more like ambient music. I do enjoy some of the early seminal minimalist works (Reich etc) but otherwise find little in either minimalism or ambient music. But as a non-devotee I am in no position to agree with your diagnosis or prognosis. I just know what I like and don't like.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I can hardly think of most minimalism making good background music. It tends to demand attention, and the repetitious nature of much of it just seems more demanding as it goes on. Maybe some Avo Part in his holy minimalism phase would qualify.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

JAS said:


> I can hardly think of most minimalism making good background music. It tends to demand attention, and the repetitious nature of much of it just seems more demanding as it goes on. Maybe some Avo Part in his holy minimalism phase would qualify.


Agreed. In fact, it's the non-repetitions that keep you awake: the very subtle changes in rhythm (how they count it, I cannot imagine!), that are forever throwing you slightly 'off'.

I like a lot of the minimalist music I've acquired (Glass, etc). It's not music of choice very often, because I do find its 'language' peculiarly restrictive, and I only need to listen to a relatively little before yearning for a touch of rich polyphony or clever counterpoint. It's like living on a diet of milk: there are times you need a steak!

I like Glass's score to 'The Hours', for example, quite a lot.


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

julide said:


> What do you think about this music that goes on and on and is *designed to lull you into sleep*


That is definitely not what Minimalism is about. That might be the effect it has on you, but it is not the composer's intention.



julide said:


> Do you think Philip Glass will have longevity.


IMHO? Yes. 
He does tend to "phone in" some of his film scores and stuff, but his works such as Einstein on the Beach, Satyagraha, Akh(e)naten, etc will be around for quite a while.


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Agreed. In fact, it's the non-repetitions that keep you awake: the very subtle changes in rhythm (how they count it, I cannot imagine!), that are forever throwing you slightly 'off'.


100% agree… keeps you on your toes.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

I think there's a natural limit to patience with even a great motif if the manipulation is too subtle, especially when it is being spammed over and over. Sometimes a composer like Reich will barrel passed my limit in something like Different Trains, a piece I do like overall, but land just squarely on it in something like Electronic Counterpoint. 

With a lot of that stuff, I often feel like the pace of development could be twice as fast, or broken up with a secondary motif (which sometimes it is), and yet still be slow-acting enough to create the desired hypnotic effect. Stuff like Become Ocean and Common Tones in Simple Time do elicit a unique emotional effect for me that "regular" classical doesn't, but after about ten minutes I start questioning whether I am even meant to give the music my full undivided attention. Though maybe those examples are more ambient than minimalist.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

It tends to work well in advertising as it grabs the attention and does not outstay its welcome. Of course, the very short time frame means that it cannot really develop, so what works to the benefit of the ad tends to work against the benefit of the music. (But the composer gets paid, presumably, which is a good thing.)


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Let me put it like this do you think this is music that warrants such a demand on the attention span if it's not going to be background music. If the aesthetic experience you are supposed to get is a jolt that is catalysed by a slight deviation from the repetition. Then i would call this a cheap effect.


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

julide said:


> Let me put it like this do you think this is music that warrants such a demand on the attention span if it's not going to be background music. If the aesthetic experience you are supposed to get is a jolt that is catalysed by a slight deviation from the repetition. Then i would call this a cheap effect.


If you are interested, have a listen to this… Yes I know 20 minutes of repetition… except, it isn't. 






It isn't just a "cheap effect" that only works for commercials…


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

julide said:


> Let me put it like this do you think this is music that warrants such a demand on the attention span if it's not going to be background music. If the aesthetic experience you are supposed to get is a jolt that is catalysed by a slight deviation from the repetition. Then i would call this a cheap effect.


I wouldn't call it cheap. But personally, I feel it's not enough to justify its length. The only piece of minimalism I listen to more often is Reich's Music for 18 musicians, and that one in particular because I feel it's atmospheric. In general, the repetition doesn't do anything except make me feel claustrophobic.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

julide said:


> Let me put it like this do you think this is music that warrants such a demand on the attention span if it's not going to be background music. If the aesthetic experience you are supposed to get is a jolt that is catalysed by a slight deviation from the repetition. Then i would call this a cheap effect.


I think it might help if you were to give examples of what you mean by "this music". Are we talking Reich and (early) Riley or is it about Glass or Part or even Gavin Bryars and Brian Eno?


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

julide said:


> Let me put it like this do you think this is music that warrants such a demand on the attention span if it's not going to be background music. If the aesthetic experience you are supposed to get is a jolt that is catalysed by a slight deviation from the repetition. Then i would call this a cheap effect.


Well, I see you're getting some good suggestions for non-lift-music minimalism.

Here's mine:






I'll freely admit that it's about the only aria in the entire opera that I love, but there's absolutely nothing of the 'background' about it.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

^ that was entertaining. That woman looks like Kim Jong Un.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

julide said:


> What do you think about this music that goes on and on and is designed to lull you into sleep or put you in a trance. When all music has become background music and peoples attention spans have been considerably reduced....is the production of this music in your opinion ethical? Do you think philip glass will have longevity.


I prefer cosmic electronic ambient music like ash ra, tangerine dream, klaus schultz etc. they achieve much more via exploring texture and atmosphere than glass etc imo.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I abhor constant repetition, whether it changes over time into a repetition of similar figures or not. Minimalism is in this sense the most intrusive music to me.

I am also bored by small ensembles.

So... no.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

julide said:


> What do you think about *this music that goes on and on and is designed to lull you into sleep* or put you in a trance. When all music has become *background music* and peoples *attention spans have been considerably reduced*....is the production of this music in your opinion ethical? Do you think philip glass will have longevity.


The "function" of music is something that _you_ as a listener have a hand in creating.

If you listen to Beethoven while practicing your tennis serve, then you have created the "function" for that music.

Music can be created with different functions to begin with, before you get a hold of it. Dance music is designed for dancing, and that is its function.

High art is intended for "sublime contemplation." This means, to truly experience "high art" music like Beethoven, or any art, in a valid way, we are expected to concentrate on it, as in "sublime contemplation," and not use it as a background for practicing our tennis serve.

In the case of Philip Glass, especially his early works, this is "high art" music designed for sublime contemplation. You are expected to listen to it intently, and focus on it with your full awareness.

*Therefore, your question is flawed.* If by focussing your full attention on Philip Glass' music it "puts you in a trance" and changes your brain waves, this is intentional, and is not the same as "mindless listening" or background music.


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Personally, I'm crazy about the stuff. My first exposure to it was coming across "The Light", a 45-minute or so orchestral work by Glass, at 1 in the morning—before opening the video I expected to only listen to a few minutes or so, but I sat with my jaw on the floor through the entire thing. At first Glass was my minimalist of choice, but now I think I love Reich even more...and I still do love a good dose of John Adams, or Terry Riley if I want something trippy. This music, far from being background music, is intended to cast a spell on the listener—and in that respect, I think that most people either "get it", or they don't.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

minimalism looked to non-European traditions, particularly African and Indian, for its aesthetic - do your same criticisms apply to those traditions? African music is all about interlocking poly rhythmic patterns and a good Hindustani musician can play for 40 minutes using only 5 notes in some cases

BTW I dont much care for Phillip Glass, Riley and Reich are great musicians though


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Bwv 1080 said:


> minimalism looked to non-European traditions, particularly African and Indian, for its aesthetic - do your same criticisms apply to those traditions? African music is all about interlocking poly rhythmic patterns and a good Hindustani musician can play for 40 minutes using only 5 notes in some cases
> 
> BTW I dont much care for Phillip Glass, Riley and Reich are great musicians though


I'm a disco fan.... i have no problem with repetition. I don't care for repetition in music that i sit down to listen.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

julide said:


> I'm a disco fan.... i have no problem with repetition. I don't care for repetition in music that i sit down to listen.


Is there more repetition in In C than, say Bach? if you listen the music is always changing, but in different ways. A Bach prelude is extremely repetitive rhythmically but other elements change. In other Bach pieces there is complete literal repetition of whole sections, which never occurs in the Riley piece


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

julide said:


> I'm a disco fan.... *i have no problem with repetition.* I don't care for repetition in music that i sit down to listen.


You *do* have a problem with repetition; you declared that in your opening post.

That means you accept repetition only as a functional aspect of functional dance music, not as an aspect worthy of your full attention.

I think the point of the above posts is that repetition is seen as a valid "high art" aspect of African and Moroccan music.

My advice to you is to try being less ethnocentric, and be more like a musicologist. After all, it's the twenty-first century, and the entire world is opening up.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> You *do* have a problem with repetition; you declared that in your opening post.
> 
> That means you accept repetition only as a functional aspect of functional dance music, not as an aspect worthy of your full attention.
> 
> I think the point of the above posts is that repetition is seen as a valid "high art" aspect of African and Moroccan music.


And what about it?


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Is there more repetition in In C than, say Bach? if you listen the music is always changing, but in different ways. A Bach prelude is extremely repetitive rhythmically but other elements change. In other Bach pieces there is complete literal repetition of whole sections, which never occurs in the Riley piece


I'm not a bach devotee... i like the cantatas and the passions....i was never a fan of the keyboard works


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

julide said:


> I'm not a bach devotee... i like the cantatas and the passions....i was never a fan of the keyboard works


No one says you have to like minimalism, but its sort of insulting to call it 'unethical' and 'background music'


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

julide said:


> And what about it?


That means your opinions are *entirely* due to your refusal to engage with repetitive music (minimalism, African, Moroccan), and do not reflect any "objective" qualities of the music. I just wanted to make that very clear.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

julide said:


> I'm not a bach devotee... i like the cantatas and the passions....i was never a fan of the keyboard works


So you don't like minimalism or Bach's keyboard works. What music do you like?


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

it is mostly dull background music, including Satie and Feldman


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Jacck said:


> it is mostly dull background music, including Satie and Feldman


Last week I attended a concert of a few Pärt (& Britten) string orchestra compositions. Pärt's _ Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten_ is far from "dull background" music. In fact, the music reveals its intensity only if you give it your full attention. I think I have never seen an audience as hypnotised as during the last slow passage of _Tabula Rasa_.

Composers working in a minimalist style are all so different, though, that I find it difficult to make any kind of generalisation.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Bwv 1080 said:


> No one says you have to like minimalism, but its sort of insulting to call it 'unethical' and 'background music'


Did i call it that though? I put it out there as a question that was in my head. I asked your opinions. The question i had in my mind was more like if music that is designed to put you in a trance with its repetition and that pervades the background ethical in a world where all music has become sort of minimal with endless loops and repetition. Now i know that some of you actually pay attention listening to this music... so i'm satisfied.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

julide said:


> What do you think about this music that goes on and on and is designed to lull you into sleep or put you in a trance. When all music has become background music and peoples attention spans have been considerably reduced....is the production of this music in your opinion ethical? Do you think philip glass will have longevity.


Surely listening to minimalist music requires a long attention span, not a reduced one? It needs a completely different sort of focusing of the attention than, say, a Mahler symphony, but it certainly requires attention.

And yes, minimalism (and its descendants) is a particular favourite of mine.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Jacck said:


> it is mostly dull background music, including Satie and Feldman


Oh imagine paying attention listening to feldmans 5 hour string quartet.... that's exactly what i meant by music that is designed to put you in a trance


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Nereffid said:


> Surely listening to minimalist music requires a long attention span, not a reduced one? It needs a completely different sort of focusing of the attention than, say, a Mahler symphony, but it certainly requires attention.


I'm not a cognitive scientist... But certainly even listening to a miniature webern piece requires much more attention listening to the tepid minimalist composers, in my opinion.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ BTW I'm afraid Feldman was not a minimalist. I don't know how you can pigeon hole him but the minimalism slot is the wrong place for him. Nor is his music designed to put you in a trance.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Bulldog said:


> So you don't like minimalism or Bach's keyboard works. What music do you like?


I love the core reportory and modernist music like everyone else. I do have a problem with baroque and minimalism though admittedly.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ BTW I'm afraid Feldman was not a minimalist. I don't know how you can pigeon hole him but the minimalism slot is the wrong place for him. Nor is his music designed to put you in a trance.


Oh i'm not familiar with Feldman. I was just assuming based on what i thought were the effects he sought for composing a 5 hour string quartet. Can you elaborate and explain Feldman's position.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

julide said:


> I'm not a cognitive scientist... But certainly even listening to a miniature webern piece requires much more attention listening to the tepid minimalist composers, in my opinion.


There may certainly be more varied information content in a short Webern piece, but surely anyone who is listening properly to, say, the hour-long _Music for 18 Musicians_ is by definition paying attention for an hour? Your criticism was that minimalism requires a short attention span. If someone is bored with the Reich piece after a few minutes, that suggests their attention span isn't long enough to process what's going on.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

> Oh i'm not familiar with Feldman. I was just assuming based on what i thought were the effects he sought for composing a 5 hour string quartet. Can you elaborate and explain Feldman's position.


^ There are certainly others here who can do a better job than me of describing what Feldman was after during his late period (when he wrote the extremely long pieces). I can say a little about my own experience of listening to some of these pieces - an experience that is necessarily limited by the time they take up! But give up an afternoon to one of his 4 or 5 hour pieces and I don't think you will regret it. There is repetition but it is not predictable as minimalist music might be. It is jagged but not angular!

These pieces do show musical development - albeit very slow - and there are sometimes surprising relationships between one brief part and something that comes much later. It is strange in itself that one notices these - listening to Feldman does something with your experience of time (but not in a trance-like way). This is gentle, slow, intimate music rather than music that shouts or aims at the epic. It is demanding - you do need to give yourself to it, to concentrate - but you find yourself wanting to give in to it.

Maybe others will have more to say on the subject.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I remember that back in the 1980s I was reading an article in _Ovation_ (or _Opus_?) magazine on the composer/conductor/horn player, Gunther Schuller, who famously composed "Third Stream" music as an authentic blending of classical music and jazz. In the article, Schuller slammed Philip Glass, who was then the new kid in town, turning the classical music world on it's head with music and especially operas that were welcomed by the public as, at least, listenable (remember, that the international serial "revolution" had been taking place since the end of World War II, though through the 1950s, 1960s, 70s, and 80s, the vast majority of classical music listeners were mystified by it.)

Anyway, as I remember (and I'm paraphrasing from memory) Schuller indicated that Glass was a rock-fringed gimmick and that George Antheil had done it all before, "and much better." Talk about "shade".

History seems to have come down on the side of Glass who has gained enough respect in the classical music world to have been covered by the likes of Gidon Kremer, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustavo Dudamel; while Schuller remains on the outer fringes of the repertoire, _Deep Space Nine_.

I'll say this: Glass' _Akhnaten_ is at least as interesting and entertaining as Verdi's _Aida_. _Nixon in China_ by Adams is as enjoyable to me as Puccini's _Turandot_, and it is even more profound. And Gorecki's _"Symphony of Sorrowful Songs"_ is a more authentic and powerful portrait of the horrors of war than Britten's _War Requiem_ which is Romantic and sentimental in comparison.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Coach G said:


> I remember that back in the 1980s I was reading an article in _Ovation_ (or _Opus_?) magazine on the composer/conductor/horn player, Gunther Schuller, who famously composed "Third Stream" music as an authentic blending of classical music and jazz. In the article, Schuller slammed Philip Glass, who was then the new kid in town, turning the classical music world on it's head with music and especially operas that were welcomed by the public as, at least, listenable (remember, the the international serial "revolution" had been taking place since the end of World War II, though through the 1950s, 1960s, 70s, and 80s, the vast majority of classical music listeners were mystified by it.)
> 
> Anyway, as I remember (and I'm paraphrasing from memory) Schuller indicated that Glass was a rock-fringed gimmick and that George Antheil had done it all before, "and much better." Talk about "shade".
> 
> ...


Akhnaten as theatre is interesting i'd give it that. But musically there is no way it can compare to Verdi. Drama is simply not there. Bereft of juggling and the ancient egypt gimmick it wouldn't be as popular. I don't agree with your last statement at all but you do you.


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

julide said:


> Akhnaten as theatre is interesting i'd give it that. But musically there is no way it can compare to Verdi. Drama is simply not there. *Bereft of juggling* and *the ancient egypt gimmick* it wouldn't be as popular. I don't agree with your last statement at all but you do you.


I assume you refer to the Met's production that had the bizarre jugglers?

No other production I have seen (and I have seen a few) had that. It is not part of the opera… and is a silly bit of Regietheater.

I have to ask. Do you know _anything_ about the historical Akhenaten? There is no gimmickry involved.

Aida's setting in Ancient Egypt is more of a "gimmick". It might as well be Sumeria, or Persia.
But the Khedive wanted an opera for the Suez Canal, so, Disney world Egypt.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I suppose that a talented enough composer (maybe even Glass himself) could compose an Egyptian epic along the lines of Verdi, but it wouldn't be original.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Philip Glass' Ahknaten actually contains some accurate information about this Egyptian ruler, if you watched it or read some notes about it. In this sense, it's more accurate than Verdi's concocted drama.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> Philip Glass' Ahknaten actually contains some accurate information about this Egyptian ruler, if you watched it or read some notes about it. In this sense, it's more accurate than Verdi's concocted drama.


 Ahknaten's historical accuracy regarding ancient egypt might make it less gimmicky than Verdi's but it certainly doesn't mean its a better opera than Aida. What i considered gimmicky was juggling but it was made clear to me that that was just the Met production. I thought Philip Glass was involved in all aspects of it so i tought that was his idea. Apparently not. Anyway i would take the orientalist fantasy of Verdi and his gorgeous music over historical accuracy, countertenor and the circus.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

I think like a lot of people have said in this thread it's very much the opposite of 'short attention span' music, because you need to be actively listening to each gradually altering detail for the music to make sense. I honestly got to be in the right mindset to listen to it - when I am it's a hypnotic, meditative experience, but when I'm not it's pretty grating listening to the same arpeggiated chord repeated _ad nauseum_ (I'm specifically thinking of Glass in this instance). I think the minimalist guys get unfairly attacked a lot for being one-trick ponies or pretentious charlatans, though I can understand where the criticism comes from. Regardless of one's own personal feelings about their music, there's no denying these guys (Glass, Reich, Adams, Riley etc.) were pioneers who broke a lot of sonic ground and explored some really interesting ideas and soundscapes.

Sometimes I think it can definitely fall flat though. I find _Koyaanisqaatsi _ unbearable to sit through. I like excerpts from certain scenes (the way Glass scored Pruitt Igoe collapsing is just mesmerzing) but to watch that thing from start to finish is a strenuous exercise in patience and attention span. It's apparently a pretty popular movie among psychedelic subculture:"taKe sum sHrooMZ and watCh thIz MooVie d00d! iT'lL OpEn Ur ThIrD EyE!" is something I've seen a lot on the internet.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I like some of Arvo Part and Reger's Vivaldi Recomposed.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Just glancing through this there seems to be a confusion between minimal music and process music. Here's an example of process music which uses minimal resources, but the results are quite complicated






Here's the score









Here's something minimal but not process music






And something process but hardly minimal






These are all things I love.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

And then there's minimal music like this, minimal resources and minimal score






Here's the score









and this, which is a sort of spectral minimalism, quite complicated really because it is based on an analysis of the partials of the notes.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

ORigel said:


> I like some of Arvo Part and Reger's Vivaldi Recomposed.


Reger might be rolling in his grave after this. :lol:


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

My view on potentially negative threads is to "turn poison into nectar."

I just listened to Philip Glass' Dance Nos. 1-5, an early release, and one of his most hard-core "repetitive" works. If you're a musician listening to this, you might find yourself counting measures as I do, as it changes every 4, 6, or 8 measures. The music is in contrasting "chunks" like this. 

I understand that he got this rhythmic conception from working with Ravi Shankar when he was transcribing Shankar's Concerto for Sitar and Orchestra (EMI/Angel). He said the measures were like a "string of beads" which added up to Western time signatures like 17 beats. After he understood this, his transcribing became much easier.

It's amazing that the performers were able to sustain this; Glass obviously had to leave breathing points for the flute and voice. When you realize this, and respect it, you see the craftsmanship and skill emerge. 

The criticism of "repetitive" begins to lose meaning, once one is aware of the larger units of change which are taking place.

There is overall development as well, and it even builds to a climax at the end.

Apparently, there are listeners who do not listen, and do not respect or care about these details.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Bwv 1080 said:


> minimalism looked to non-European traditions, particularly African and Indian, for its aesthetic - do your same criticisms apply to those traditions? African music is all about interlocking poly rhythmic patterns and a good Hindustani musician can play for 40 minutes using only 5 notes in some cases
> 
> BTW I dont much care for Phillip Glass, Riley and Reich are great musicians though


Love that work. Not to turn this into a political discussion, but watching that video was the first thing to put a smile on my face after the US 2016 vote.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> Just glancing through this there seems to be a confusion between minimal music and process music. Here's an example of process music which uses minimal resources, but the results are quite complicated


I think the "minimalism" of Philip Glass has a lot to do with process. Glass, Reich, and Riley never liked the term, anyway, so I think it's a distraction to act as if this matters.

Reich's early "Clapping Music and "Pendulum Music" are based on simple processes, but I would hesitate to describe him as a "process" composer. I see your point, but you're trying to make distinctions based on these terms. Wolff is Wolff, and Spectralism is Spectralism, much different, and I can distinguish these from Reich/Glass/Riley, for the purposes of this discussion. If anything, these terms might be adding to the confusion. We know what the OP was getting at.



jegreenwood said:


> Love that work. Not to turn this into a political discussion, but watching that video was the first thing to put a smile on my face after the US 2016 vote.


BTW, beautiful video on Terry Riley's In C in Africa! I've got to get this...it's better than the original!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> I think the "minimalism" of Philip Glass has a lot to do with process. Glass, Reich, and Riley never liked the term, anyway, so I think it's a distraction to act as if this matters.


But Reich invented it in his 1968 essay Music as a Gradual Process

http://www.bussigel.com/systemsforplay/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Reich_Gradual-Process.pdf


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Memory brings a chuckle. Three or four decades ago I had a business friend who called minimalism "yuppie wallpaper music" but liked it nonetheless.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Is this minimalist music? (one of my favourite things.)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Memory brings a chuckle. Three or four decades ago I had a business friend who called minimalism "yuppie wallpaper music" but liked it nonetheless.


I just don't know how anyone could think of something like Different Trains as wallpaper music!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> I just don't know how anyone could think of something like Different Trains as wallpaper music!


I doubt he knew that 1988 work...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> I just don't know how anyone could think of something like Different Trains as wallpaper music!


I agree; and what on Earth has it got to do with yuppies? I'm just a working-class guy.

Minimalism _does_ have a lot to do with world music. Steve Reich studied African drum ensembles, Terry Riley studied singing with Pandit Pran Nath, and Philip Glass studied with Ravi Shankar.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> . . . I'm just a working-class guy. . . .


Working-class? In THAT hat?


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> I agree; and what on Earth has it got to do with yuppies? I'm just a working-class guy.
> 
> Minimalism _does_ have a lot to do with world music. Steve Reich studied African drum ensembles, Terry Riley studied singing with Pandit Pran Nath, and Philip Glass studied with Ravi Shankar.


I love how those yuppies saw what they termed "world music" like theirs was the default music something to incorprate in their music. It's a very american thing to do of course.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Oh you can't criticise lazy and insipid repetition in minimalism because it appropriates that from african music-hence you are a racist- as if there is one sort of african music.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Ooh - you see a conspiracy of political correctness? Suppose he just meant (as I think he did) that it draws on traditions that were quite new to western classical music and that a little knowledge of those might help to get something out of the key minimalists? I would brush your shoulders as there may be a chip or two on them.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

julide said:


> I love how those yuppies saw what they termed "world music" like theirs was the default music something to incorprate in their music. It's a very american thing to do of course.


Is that you in the avatar?

"Conspiracy of political correctness"...:lol:


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Ooh - you see a conspiracy of political correctness? Suppose he just meant (as I think he did) that it draws on traditions that were quite new to western classical music and that a little knowledge of those might help to get something out of the key minimalists? I would brush your shoulders as there may be a chip or two on them.


Not really... i'm just trying to tease and get an answer so i can satisfy my curiosity regarding this music that i simply don't get.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

julide said:


> Not really... i'm just trying to tease and get an answer so i can satisfy my curiosity regarding this music that i simply don't get.


She was conscripted by the mods to bait and help rid the forum of "undesirables"...:lol:

The music is wonderful! I hope someday you'll join us, and the World will live as one...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I doubt he knew that 1988 work...


Still less so for _Come out_ or _It's gonna rain_ (1965 I think)


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

ORigel said:


> I like some of Arvo Part and *Reger's* Vivaldi Recomposed.


Surely you meant Max Richter? 

Much as I enjoy listening to his (Richter's) music (and I really do!), I find it to be "background wallpaper" music. It will happily pass the time of day behind me as I go around my business.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> Still less so for _Come out_ or _It's gonna rain_ (1965 I think)


Those revision edits KenOC made are funny, aren't they, Mandryka? It's a pity that you & I are probably the only ones who will remember the first version.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

erudite said:


> Surely you meant Max Richter?
> 
> Much as I enjoy listening to his (Richter's) music (and I really do!), I find it to be "background wallpaper" music. It will happily pass the time of day behind me as I go around my business.


Did Richter intend for his music to perform a background "wallpaper" function, or is this function something that you have imposed on it? The same could be said for any music that anyone is not paying much attention to.

For example, if I hear "Light My Fire" by The Doors in the grocery store ceiling speakers, that does not erode my high regard for that song, or The Doors' music in general, as being "good rock music."

In other words, this "background function" that is imposed on music is often a matter of the way it is listened to, and has little to do with the particular music itself.

Of course, music can be intentionally created which is "not designed to be listened to" as Brian Eno described Muzak..


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## erudite (Jul 23, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> Did Richter intend for his music to perform a background "wallpaper" function, or is this function something that you have imposed on it?


I _really_ wasn't trying to be provocative.

As I said: 


> *I* find it to be "background wallpaper" music.


Anyway. 
I'll leave you to yourselves… I have other hills to go die on than this.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I like a lot some minimalism, I don't like some minimalism. It's not my favorite genre of music, but I think that phasing is an absolutely brilliant technique that I'd like to see explored also in non minimalist music.


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## neofite (Feb 19, 2017)

My favorite background music is John Cage's 4′33″. It is also my favorite minimalist music.


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## Plague (Apr 4, 2020)

When we talk about minimalist composers, whom are we talking about? Some of you mentioned Arvo Part and Gorecki in this thread, but some others seem to suppose minimalism is basically an American thing:



millionrainbows said:


> Minimalism _does_ have a lot to do with world music. Steve Reich studied African drum ensembles, Terry Riley studied singing with Pandit Pran Nath, and Philip Glass studied with Ravi Shankar.


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