# Any Professional Musicians here?



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Any professional musicians here? What is your instrument? Degree? etc. Do you play in an orchestra, or do your own gigs?


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## Nicola (Nov 25, 2007)

Astonishing that after 2 days no-one has volunteered to admit they're a professional musician. Do they know something we don't, I wonder?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I used to be a freelance French hornist but had to retire from performing because of a physical disability several years ago. I performed with many,many different orchestras,opera companies,concert bands,chamber ensembles etc under many different conductors,including such well-known ones as Maurice Peress,Joann Falletta,Arthur Weisberg,David Lawton,David Alan Miller ,Jacques Brourman ,and Dalia Atlas.
I auditioned without success for orchestras such as the New York Philharmonic,Los Angeles Philharmonic,Washinton national and New Jersey symphonies among others.
In adition to performing in my native US,I've performed in countries as diverse as Italy,Australia,Swotzerland,New Zealnd ,Fiji and Samoa,and performed as a soloist in the Music Under New York program ,an organized program for musicians to perform at various locations in New York such as Grand Central and Penn Station with permits and schedules,unlike independent street musicians. I was also a substitute music teacher at a variety of public school on Long Island.


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## SonataSonataSonata (Sep 14, 2010)

Nicola said:


> Astonishing that after 2 days no-one has volunteered to admit they're a professional musician. Do they know something we don't, I wonder?


It's because professionals don't have time to chime in --I have a handful of close friends who are all professional musicians (professors, commissioned composers, etc) and the very last thing they would do is take time to debate music with hobbyists on an Internet forum. 

I used to compose/teach/perform professionally as my full-time income for quite a few years until I met my wife and moved thousands of miles with her to complete her PhD--I decided to "take a break" at that time and so far it's been a reallllly looooong break. Now, music for me is more like a hobby-job, but I plan do it again as a full-time profession when the time feels right. I am still in contact with my contacts, so I just need to do it. But with a full-time day job that I can't quit, two tiny kids, etc, my priorities are elsewhere, understandably. I actually made far more income doing music than I make now, but music just isn't in the cards at the moment--or something subconscious is keeping me away.

I have a BM in Piano Pedagogy with supplemental studies on the side. I plan to get my Master's in the future but it would only be for personal benefit since my BM in Ped will let me do what I want to do when I want to do it again. I would have double-majored in Composition but I didn't get the paperwork submitted (long story, there).


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

SonataSonataSonata said:


> It's because professionals don't have time to chime in --I have a handful of close friends who are all professional musicians (professors, commissioned composers, etc) and the very last thing they would do is take time to debate music with hobbyists on an Internet forum.


That's a very interesting thing to note. I've also heard that what happens to Music Majors often is that they develop non-musical hobbies, so that they don't drown in music. Forums like these would really be tiresome to participate in, since they already live and breathe music, and would prefer to get their mind off it with something else.


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## Nicola (Nov 25, 2007)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> That's a very interesting thing to note. I've also heard that what happens to Music Majors often is that they develop non-musical hobbies, so that they don't drown in music. Forums like these would really be tiresome to participate in, since they already live and breathe music, and would prefer to get their mind off it with something else.


I doubt it. More like that real experts will not spend their time in amateur classical music forums. I've been a member of most forums over several years and have seen many professionals leave after a very short stay.


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## SonataSonataSonata (Sep 14, 2010)

Nicola said:


> I doubt it. More like that real experts will not spend their time in amateur classical music forums. I've been a member of most forums over several years and have seen many professionals leave after a very short stay.


This is true, also. Even as a _former _full-time musician, I have come and gone from these music forums so many times that I have to use a new screenname each time because I can't remember my old ones. 

When I was at the height of my teaching career, I thought I would love to join these forums and be part of the discussion. After pointless arguments with people who have absolutely no formal education yet speaking as though they were an expert in the field and others trusting every single word they would type...well, you get the idea.

And don't get me started on composition forums....oh, man. I would find myself screaming at the computer so music I took up non-music forums instead.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I'll chime in (as I just noticed this thread )

I am a professional classical organist. I play in church and also perform concerts, as well as a being the featured soloist/accompanist for various musical presentations. I've been in this career for almost 50 years. Music, however, was not my mainstay employment in my working years - they taught us everything in college about the organ except how to make money playing it. 

I went the electronics route for 33 years, installing organs all over So California, as well as working for a military contractor, all the time honing my musical skills, playing as much as possible and enjoying the extra income. 

Kh


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## PicklePepperPiper (Aug 3, 2010)

SonataSonataSonata said:


> I have to use a new screenname each time because I can't remember my old ones.


Do you just add a "sonata" everytime?


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## toucan (Sep 27, 2010)

Musicians (orchestra musicians, that is, conductors and soloists are socially more versatile) tend not to like non-musicians. You are therefore unlikely to see many of them participate in any site that attracts amateurs, even if the amateurs are knowledgeable enough.

One thing that could be interesting is a discussion forum for musicians (like musicians in the New York Philharmonic, for example), a forum that non-musicans could follow but not participate it. 

That site could have true pedagogical usefulness, to see up close how musicians think and talk about music.

(well, so long as they don't talk too much about how to negotiate such or such tuba part... )


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## PicklePepperPiper (Aug 3, 2010)

I am a student musician who wants to go professional, and I can vouch for the fact that I'd probably have a better chance if I didn't spend so much time on forums like these 

Having said that, I really dislike any elitist attitudes classical musicians have to classical listeners. I may have been guilty of this myself, but in all honesty I've learned far more from reading the more interesting threads here than I have in my lectures - stuff that's not part of an educational syllabus, like genuine opinions on pieces, discovering the lesser popular works and all that.

Having said _that_, I really should be practicing rather than typing, so therein lies why professionals don't often go on internet forums 

-PPP


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PicklePepperPiper said:


> Having said _that_, I really should be practicing rather than typing, so therein lies why professionals don't often go on internet forums


Yeah, that's why I'm here for now.  when I get to college, I may have no free-time, I'll have to see.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't agree with the generalization oabout musicians(except conductors and soloists)not liking non-musicians. This has never been the case with me, a musician since I was a kid.I've always had non-musician friends.
There's a very interesting website geared toward orchestral musicians but not exclusively called polyphonic.org,which discusses all the various issues facing them and discussions of orchestral life etc. Many well known musicians contribute to it,and do try it. You can easily register on it and don't have to be an orchestra musician yourself.


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## serentan (May 15, 2009)

Boy, lots of anti snob snobbery in these replies. Why? I'm a pro, have been from a very early age. Came on the forum because I also love teaching and because soooooo many young voices are ruined by bad or non exsistant techniques, Also I love ot see hte people who think they can't or shouldn't see themselves succeeding..
O, for the instrumentalists "vs." singers out there, I was a pro violinist and early music player as well as singer, so sit on it.
Pros come to these forums to help, to get a new idea, to puch their own buttons to see what could become more interesting, to wake up. If there's heart in the answers there's usually interest. 
If there's wanabe snobbishness, it's a waste of evryone's time, on stage or on forums, Plus ça change...

I'd like to see less judging a this or that and more just doing seriously. The titles are less important, the serious of the love at work is what counts. In anything one does, in any case.
Pro means either simply that you're paid for the work or, at best, that you don't accept ever I can't for an answer and show up at all times and do it, and do it well, period. As I sadi, the seriousness of the love at work..


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## serentan (May 15, 2009)

*K.i.s.s.*

Boy, lots of anti snob snobbery in these replies. Why? I'm a pro, have been from a very early age. Came on the forum because I also love teaching and because soooooo many young voices are ruined by bad or non exsistant techniques, Also I love ot see hte people who think they can't or shouldn't see themselves succeeding..
O, for the instrumentalists "vs." singers out there, I was a pro violinist and early music player as well as singer, so sit on it.
Pros come to these forums to help, to get a new idea, to puch their own buttons to see what could become more interesting, to wake up. If there's heart in the answers there's usually interest. 
If there's wanabe snobbishness, it's a waste of evryone's time, on stage or on forums, Plus ça change...

I'd like to see less judging a this or that and more just doing seriously. The titles are less important, the serious of the love at work is what counts. In anything one does, in any case.
Pro means either simply that you're paid for the work or, at best, that you don't accept ever I can't for an answer and show up at all times and do it, and do it well, period. As I sadi, the seriousness of the love at work..


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Yes, yes, we’ve heard you the first time. And French K.i.s.s. to you as well.

Also, back to the subject, I’ve heard that professional musicians don’t really love the music. Like they've heard too much of it already. Do you think there’s a chance that this is true?


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Serge said:


> Also, back to the subject, I've heard that professional musicians don't really love the music. Like they've heard too much of it already. Do you think there's a chance that this is true?


I don't think they dislike it (otherwise they wouldn't be in an orchestra) but they dislike having to play the same things over and over- especially if it's a piece they're already tired of. I talked to one professional (a cellist), and asked her what her favorites and least favorites were to play- she said she rarely tired of playing Beethoven, and she enjoyed playing Mahler, but Tchaikovsky and Bruckner get boring.

Also another major factor is the part their given. I've never met a non singer whose enjoyed playing Carmina Burana. Brass players prefer brassier music, strings prefer stringier(?) stuff, woodwinds are always worried about which solos they have (ones that require lots of practice, they tend to hate).

And this I think really only applies to orchestral musicians, where they don't get input in what they're playing (which I'm sure is the what they resent the most). Chamber musicians generally get a say, and I think are happier for it, but they don't have the financial security of an orchestral player.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Here's an interesting thought: what do you think is more important: that a Professional Musician love _Music_, or love to _play their Instrument_? (chose only one)


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## PicklePepperPiper (Aug 3, 2010)

I know my local orchestra, while sounding fantastic, has absolutely none of the vibe and energy you would expect from people who love music. They're all fantastic players, but music lovers? Some of them perhaps not.

This is why organisations like the Australian Youth Orchestra get such rave reviews at their concerts. As a past member of some of its programs, I can tell you the energy is fantastic. I suppose it's because we haven't played the repertiore over and over.

It'd be interesting to see how other people's experiences line up. I'm pretty sure there's a distinction between amatuer and professional groups in the love they have for music.

-PPP


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## PicklePepperPiper (Aug 3, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Here's an interesting thought: what do you think is more important: that a Professional Musician love _Music_, or love to _play their Instrument_? (chose only one)


I've always believed that, for myself, I should aim to be a good musician, not a good cellist. While I love playing cello, I don't want to restrict myself to being a cellist in the sense that I won't go to wind band concerts or the like. I think anyone who is a professional should at least have a preliminary understanding of most facets of music, play another instrument from a different family (albiet doesn't have to be quite as well), have a basic grasp of piano and perhaps guitar, be able to sing from music, augument a percussion section and read all clefs.

This shouldn't subtract from the player's ability at his/her chosen instrument - I would argue that such a good understanding and love of music in general opens the musician's eyes and ears to achieve even more on their own instrument.

But I could be wrong.

Yeah, for me, definitely professionals should be music lovers, not instrument lovers. Though I will fiercely argue why cello is the best damn instrument in the cosmos for anyone willing to suggest otherwise 

-PPP


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