# Verdi's Requiem



## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

I'm going to listen to it in a concert next month; this would be the first time I'm listening to this, what to expect?


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## Rogerx

Use the search option - Verdi Requiem.
Also in full versions on You Tube.


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## david johnson

Expect some beauty and drama  Who will you hear doing this?


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

david johnson said:


> Expect some beauty and drama  Who will you hear doing this?


https://www.ipo.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/סדין-83-אנגלית.pdf
(July 10th)


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## flamencosketches

I haven't heard the whole thing, but it's famous for being somewhat operatic for a Requiem (believe it or not). Dramatic, less than 100% solemn and religious. Verdi was not a religious man himself. I think you'll have a great time at the concert. Write back how you like it afterwards.


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## larold

Quite operatic for sacred choral, indeed, and also quite long -- more than 80 minutes in most performances. It's likely your mind may wonder a bit in the middle portions that come after the powerful Dies irae section near the beginning. The ending has always been anticlimactic for me, too.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

flamencosketches said:


> I haven't heard the whole thing, but it's famous for being somewhat operatic for a Requiem (believe it or not). Dramatic, less than 100% solemn and religious. Verdi was not a religious man himself. I think you'll have a great time at the concert. Write back how you like it afterwards.


My mother will take me to the concert as a birthday gift, it's three days after (July 10th, my birthday is on July 7th), but it isn't a reason to be rush and it isn't the only present I'm getting this year; I do hope my grandfather would join us...


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## Barelytenor

Verdi Requiem is my favorite Requiem setting. But then, I'm a former opera singer. This is over-the-top operatic. I guess my favorite sections are the "Tuba mirum," set for four trumpets (often two in the wings or back of the hall) plus lots of other brass; the famous "Ingemisco" tenor solo and the opening "Kyrie eleison" entrance, also for tenor then joined by the other three soloists; the part in B-flat minor for lyric soprano singing in the high register with muted choral accompaniment singing "Requiem aeternam dona eis Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis" (Eternal rest give them Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them); and the concluding C-minor fugue "Libera me, Domine, de morte aeterna, in die illa tremenda" which contains one of the most unlikely fugue subjects IMHO ever, yet nonetheless rather successfully set with solo soprano soaring atop.

Favorite performance: Leontyne Price (young), soprano; Rosalind Elias, mezzo; Jussi Björling, tenor; and Giorgio Tozzi, bass, with Fritz Reiner conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker. Close second is the version with Price, Fiorenza Cossotto, Pavarotti (young, and making a little metrical error in the "Ingemisco" at "parce deus" but mostly brilliant, of course), and Nicolai Ghiaurov, conducted by Karajan with the La Scala Orchestra and Chorus (and the chorus master is Roberto Benaglio, under whom I sang for a while at Dallas Opera, so I know he whipped those Italians into good choral fit!). There is a wonderful DVD of this performance from 1967. 

Verdi may not have been a religious man in the strict sense (I really don't know), but he set this for the Requiem Mass of his friend, the great Italian patriot Alessandro Manzoni, and it is quite convincing as a plea for salvation and eternal rest in that way.

My least favorite bit in the whole piece is the "Sanctus" setting, a double fugue (two subjects) for double chorus. It's pretty, it's clever, it's admirably constructed, but it feels a bit like an academic exercise Verdi could have turned in to the music conservatory.

In general I love the Offertory, set just for the soloists and orchestra. Oh, I just pretty much like the whole thing! There are no longueurs in it to me ... but then, I think I have performed it six or seven times, including singing the tenor solos (when I was very young) and the bass solos when I was older ... and I know every note of it like the back of my hand.

Let us know your impressions of it! I see you have long since attended the concert and not yet replied.


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## DavidA

Some pretty fiery music.


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## Enthusiast

larold said:


> Quite operatic for sacred choral, indeed, and also quite long -- more than 80 minutes in most performances. It's likely your mind may wonder a bit in the middle portions that come after the powerful Dies irae section near the beginning. The ending has always been anticlimactic for me, too.


Everyone focuses on the famous Dies Irae - a very dramatic and exciting part - but the work's heart is in the very beautiful music that you feel uninvolving and then anticlimactic. It was the Dies Irae that drew me to the piece, too, but then I found it got in the way of my really appreciating what a masterpiece the work is.

Is it operatic? It sounds like Verdi. It _is _dramatic (as is the St John Passion) but there is an implied criticism in calling it operatic and it is not clear what that criticism is. The Requiem is Verdi applying his art to the services of ... God? Maybe but more likely the Catholic Church. But we don't criticise the Brahms Requiem as symphonic. And the Berlioz requiem? What is that? What is the opposite to operatic in this context?


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## DavidA

An opera set to liturgical text!


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## Allegro Con Brio

I like the work, regardless of whether it's "reverent," "operatic," or "spiritual!" Actually, my favorite part of it is the sequence directly following the Diēs Īrae - the Tuba Mīrum and the next few portions...hearing the bass singer sing _"mors"_ gradually ever so quieter until it fades away into nothing give me shivers. I'm not a fan of how the opening material cycles back at the end, though. Seems unnecessary. My favorite version I've heard is one of Giulini's, but it seems to have disappeared off Spotify. Otherwise I've heard the Reiner (really a heightened sense of fervor in that one), Toscanini, and Solti with Sutherland and Pavarotti. What's another good version if I want to hear the more "spiritual" side of the work?


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## Enthusiast

DavidA said:


> An opera set to liturgical text!


The dramatic oratorios of Handel are operatic.


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## Dimace

Barelytenor said:


> Verdi Requiem is my favorite Requiem setting. But then, I'm a former opera singer. This is over-the-top operatic. I guess my favorite sections are the "Tuba mirum," set for four trumpets (often two in the wings or back of the hall) plus lots of other brass; the famous "Ingemisco" tenor solo and the opening "Kyrie eleison" entrance, also for tenor then joined by the other three soloists; the part in B-flat minor for lyric soprano singing in the high register with muted choral accompaniment singing "Requiem aeternam dona eis Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis" (Eternal rest give them Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them); and the concluding C-minor fugue "Libera me, Domine, de morte aeterna, in die illa tremenda" which contains one of the most unlikely fugue subjects IMHO ever, yet nonetheless rather successfully set with solo soprano soaring atop.
> 
> Favorite performance: *Leontyne Price *(young), soprano; Rosalind Elias, mezzo; *Jussi Björling,* tenor; and Giorgio Tozzi, bass, with Fritz Reiner conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker. Close second is the version with Price, Fiorenza Cossotto, Pavarotti (young, and making a little metrical error in the "Ingemisco" at "parce deus" but mostly brilliant, of course), and *Nicolai Ghiaurov,* conducted by* Karajan* with the La Scala Orchestra and Chorus (and the chorus master is Roberto Benaglio, under whom I sang for a while at Dallas Opera, so I know he whipped those Italians into good choral fit!). There is a wonderful DVD of this performance from 1967.
> 
> Verdi may not have been a religious man in the strict sense (I really don't know), but he set this for the Requiem Mass of his friend, the great Italian patriot Alessandro Manzoni, and it is quite convincing as a plea for salvation and eternal rest in that way.
> 
> My least favorite bit in the whole piece is the "Sanctus" setting, a double fugue (two subjects) for double chorus. It's pretty, it's clever, it's admirably constructed, but it feels a bit like an academic exercise Verdi could have turned in to the music conservatory.
> 
> In general I love the Offertory, set just for the soloists and orchestra. Oh, I just pretty much like the whole thing! There are no longueurs in it to me ... but then, I think I have performed it six or seven times, including singing the tenor solos (when I was very young) and the bass solos when I was older ... and I know every note of it like the back of my hand.
> 
> Let us know your impressions of it! I see you have long since attended the concert and not yet replied.


You know very well this work. Bravo!

(you have only forgotten die Frauen Freni & Ludwig with BPO & Karajan. Glorious all around performance)


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## Heck148

You are in for a real treat!! Great work, very dramatic...imo...one of music's greatest treasures.


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## Rogerx

Favorite performance: Leontyne Price (young), soprano; Rosalind Elias, mezzo; Jussi Björling, tenor; and Giorgio Tozzi, bass, with Fritz Reiner conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker


Mirella Freni, Christa Ludwig, Carlo Cossutta, Nicolai Ghiaurov, Anna Tomowa-Sintow, Agnes Baltsa, Peter Schreier, José van Dam

Wiener Singverein, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan




Dame Joan Sutherland (soprano), Martti Talvela (bass), Marilyn Horne (mezzo-soprano), Luciano Pavarotti (tenor)
Wiener Staatsoper, Wiener Philharmoniker
Sir Georg Solti


Renata Scotto, Agnes Baltsa, Veriano Luchetti and Evgeny Nesterenko

Philharmonia Orchestra & Ambrosian Chorus, Riccardo Muti
With this four I can live.


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## Tsaraslondon

Barelytenor said:


> Verdi Requiem is my favorite Requiem setting. But then, I'm a former opera singer. This is over-the-top operatic. I guess my favorite sections are the "Tuba mirum," set for four trumpets (often two in the wings or back of the hall) plus lots of other brass; the famous "Ingemisco" tenor solo and the opening "Kyrie eleison" entrance, also for tenor then joined by the other three soloists; the part in B-flat minor for lyric soprano singing in the high register with muted choral accompaniment singing "Requiem aeternam dona eis Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis" (Eternal rest give them Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them); and the concluding C-minor fugue "Libera me, Domine, de morte aeterna, in die illa tremenda" which contains one of the most unlikely fugue subjects IMHO ever, yet nonetheless rather successfully set with solo soprano soaring atop.
> 
> Favorite performance: Leontyne Price (young), soprano; Rosalind Elias, mezzo; Jussi Björling, tenor; and Giorgio Tozzi, bass, with Fritz Reiner conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker. Close second is the version with Price, Fiorenza Cossotto, Pavarotti (young, and making a little metrical error in the "Ingemisco" at "parce deus" but mostly brilliant, of course), and Nicolai Ghiaurov, conducted by Karajan with the La Scala Orchestra and Chorus (and the chorus master is Roberto Benaglio, under whom I sang for a while at Dallas Opera, so I know he whipped those Italians into good choral fit!). There is a wonderful DVD of this performance from 1967.
> 
> Verdi may not have been a religious man in the strict sense (I really don't know), but he set this for the Requiem Mass of his friend, the great Italian patriot Alessandro Manzoni, and it is quite convincing as a plea for salvation and eternal rest in that way.
> 
> My least favorite bit in the whole piece is the "Sanctus" setting, a double fugue (two subjects) for double chorus. It's pretty, it's clever, it's admirably constructed, but it feels a bit like an academic exercise Verdi could have turned in to the music conservatory.
> 
> In general I love the Offertory, set just for the soloists and orchestra. Oh, I just pretty much like the whole thing! There are no longueurs in it to me ... but then, I think I have performed it six or seven times, including singing the tenor solos (when I was very young) and the bass solos when I was older ... and I know every note of it like the back of my hand.
> 
> Let us know your impressions of it! I see you have long since attended the concert and not yet replied.


Excellent breakdown. I would add that it hardly ever fails in performance, and I've heard it with starry soloists and less known ones.

My favourite performances are

Schwarzkopf, Ludwig, Gedda, Ghiaurov and the Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus conducted by Giulini.

The video of the Karajan performance with Price, Cossotto, Pavarotti and Ghiaurov.

Scotto, Baltsa, Luchetti and Nesterenko with the Amborian Chorus and Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Muti.

And finally a performance which I can only find on youtube, with Norman as soprano soloist, Baltsa, Carreras and Nesterenko. Riccardo Muti conducts the Bavarian Radio Chorus and Symphony Orchestra.


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## Enthusiast

I agree with many of the recommendations but the field is wider: both Bernstein and Solti have turned our very decent recordings of the work and Fricsay's is also very good.


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## Tsaraslondon

Enthusiast said:


> I agree with many of the recommendations but the field is wider: both Bernstein and Solti have turned our very decent recordings of the work and Fricsay's is also very good.


Solti's first recordings has already been recommended, though I actually prefer the later one with Leontyne Price, Janet Baker, Luchetti and Van Dam.

The Fricsay, as you say, is also very good.


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## 89Koechel

Barelytenor - That's a fine analysis of this wonderful work, overall! I especially like your analysis of certain sections, as they succeed (Tuba Mirum, Ingemisco, etc.) and how maybe some less-successful ones (Sanctus) occur. Well, there's NO doubt that some parts of the Verdian output could be almost like an academic exercise ... but maybe the overall construction of the Requiem overcomes any, such qualms. Thanks for mentioning Reiner, with Bjorling and the VPO ... and the von Karajan. ... Well, maybe we should go back, even further ... to Bjorling, Milanov and others with the "old man"/Toscanini, from around 1940, and THIS version might be the best representation, of all, if all things are considered.


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## 89Koechel

Tsaraslondon & Enthusiast - Thanks for mentioning the short-lived conductor, Fricsay. His was one of the best talents of the post-WW2 era ... cut-short by tragedy (maybe like Cantelli, Dennis Brain, etc.). The Hungarian made some excellent recordings, incl. "Abduction from the Seraglio", and "Fidelio", and more. There's even an old black-and-white video, of he (with Heinz Holliger, etc.) in Rossini's "La Cenerentola" - exceptional!


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## adriesba

I've never listened to the whole thing. I really should though since it seems like it would be right up my alley. I've been very impressed by the parts I have heard.
What's a really good recording with good sound quality? I have the Reiner recording.


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## Tsaraslondon

adriesba said:


> I've never listened to the whole thing. I really should though since it seems like it would be right up my alley. I've been very impressed by the parts I have heard.
> What's a really good recording with good sound quality? I have the Reiner recording.


Just sift through the thread. There are plenty of recommendations above.


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## adriesba

Tsaraslondon said:


> Just sift through the thread. There are plenty of recommendations above.


True. There are just so many recommendations that I wouldn't know where to start. :lol:
I don't see many people mentioning sound quality; so I thought I'd start with that.


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> True. There are just so many recommendations that I wouldn't know where to start. :lol:
> I don't see many people mentioning sound quality; so I thought I'd start with that.


The Reiner sounds spectacular, if you want newer go for Maazel om Decca or Pappano on EMI


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## adriesba

Rogerx said:


> The Reiner sounds spectacular, if you want newer go for Maazel om Decca or Pappano on EMI


Do you mean Sony for Maazel? I don't see a Maazel on Decca.


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> Do you mean Sony for Maazel? I don't see a Maazel on Decca.


 Senior moment, your right, sorry.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8032064--verdi-requiem


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## adriesba

Rogerx said:


> Senior moment, your right, sorry.
> 
> https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8032064--verdi-requiem


OK. I don't know about Kaufmann on this Decca release though... :lol: I guess I'll have to listen through the Reiner recording, then try another one. I'm noticing that the new ones, although they may have conductors I like, have singers that I'm not familiar with or not crazy about.

These recordings look enticing, among others:

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View attachment 131232


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> OK. I don't know about Kaufmann on this Decca release though... :lol: I guess I'll have to listen through the Reiner recording, then try another one. I'm noticing that the new ones, although they may have conductors I like, have singers that I'm not familiar with or not crazy about.
> 
> These recordings look enticing:


The first three are very good, Barenboim is out for me, (another one made to be made), Guilini I hardly listening, to slow for my personal taste.


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## adriesba

Rogerx said:


> The first three are very good, Barenboim is out for me, (another one made to be made), Guilini I hardly listening, to slow for my personal taste.


Sorry, I kept editing my post because it got too big. That Barbirolli recording looks really promising based on the singers, but I'm not familiar with Barbirolli.


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> Sorry, I kept editing my post because it got too big. That Barbirolli recording looks really promising based on the singers, but I'm not familiar with Barbirolli.


No problem.
The Abbado is very "brave" but, the Barbirolli has a great cast, I like the voices blending by Caballé / Cossotto, but I am sure someone else has different opinions .


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## DavidA

adriesba said:


> Sorry, I kept editing my post because it got too big. That Barbirolli recording looks really promising based on the singers, but I'm not familiar with Barbirolli.


Unfortunately made when the conductor was slowing down to snails pace. There is some very beautiful singing but the thing is far too slow


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## Enthusiast

Tsaraslondon said:


> Solti's first recordings has already been recommended, though I actually prefer the later one with Leontyne Price, Janet Baker, Luchetti and Van Dam.
> 
> The Fricsay, as you say, is also very good.


I must have missed it (different cover to the one I was used to). But it was the one with Leontyne Price that I meant. I had forgotten the Sutherland one, which I "knew" as a kid (a library record) but haven't heard since. I must look it out!


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## Tsaraslondon

adriesba said:


> Sorry, I kept editing my post because it got too big. That Barbirolli recording looks really promising based on the singers, but I'm not familiar with Barbirolli.


I agree with DavidA about the Barbirolli. It looks great on paper, but doesn't really come off.

If sound is your main criterion, then Pappano is a good bet, though none of his soloists can compare with some of those on older sets. Sound also rules out the Giulini, which is beginning to sound its age, though I still think it one of the best performances ever committed to disc.

Of the five you listed above, my preference would be for the Muti, which is really thrilling. Scotto is a bit raw on top, but she makes more of the text than practically anyone and this is the best of Baltsa's versions too.


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## adriesba

I just found out that there is a record of Verdi's requiem conducted by Leinsdorf with Birgit Nilsson as the soprano. Is it good?


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> I just found out that there is a record of Verdi's requiem conducted by Leinsdorf with Birgit Nilsson as the soprano. Is it good?





> Erich Leinsdorf's interpretations of Verdi are among the best of any conductor. This recording took place during his tenure with the Boston Symphony. He was a very strict conductor who got all there was to get out his performers. This recording is no exception to that.
> 
> The orchestra is outstanding. Listen to the accents in the Dies Irae movement at the beginning from the chorus and the orchestra. I have never heard them done that way. I love that approach. Also the string playing, especially the stringendi and the precision in terms of the bowing. The two key ingredients in this piece to make it work are fire and sensitivity. By that I mean that the beginning has to have the ultimate beauty to respect Verdi's tribute to Rossini. Also that Dies Irae has to have a great fire to it. Leinsdorf does both of those things the best on here. It is the conductor's job to get those things out of the players and the singers.
> 
> Speaking of the singing Carlo Bergonzi's singing is a free voice lesson. Ingemisco is one of his best pieces of singing because of the nuances and the technique. Young singers can learn a lot from this. The bass Ezio Flagello and the two women one of them being Nilsson do a fine job as well. Nilsson is not really cut out for Verdi, but she still does a good job here. Anyway, the Menotti is a wonderful piece as well. George London is great. He is one of the greatest bass-baritones of all time. His diction and sensitivity to the music is very apparent here. Leinsdorf gets him to sing with great emotion and intensity. I can't emphasize enough that it is the conductor who gets people to do these things. All and all a great set that is worth ordering because it is a good deal.


I could'n put it better myself so.....run whilst is still available ......................:angel:


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## adriesba

Rogerx said:


> I could'n put it better myself so.....run whilst is still available ......................:angel:


Wow! I listened to some parts of it I found on YouTube, and it's good! Yeah, I see it's becoming rare. I really ought to get one quickly. If I'm not mistaken, the label it's on seems to be one of those whose recordings become very hard to find.


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## larold

Expect a long evening in the concert hall and have patience after the loud second part. This is not particularly religious music; it is more operatic in nature. The second half doesn't have the drama of the first half and it ends in a whimper, also.


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## Knorf

Speaking of Muti, if you're looking for a more recent recording in superb modern sound, I can whole-heartedly recommend this one. In fact, I prefer it over Muti's Philharmonia recording, which is saying something because that one is excellent.










Verdi's Requiem has been well-served in recordings, with numerous historical and modern recordings. But this one is special.

I'm a professional bassoonist, and have performed this work many times, including three of the four bassoon parts (I've never played the 4th part.) It is a piece dear to my heart. Don't let the exciting bombast of the Dies Irae cause you to miss the many moments of great beauty and subtlety!


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## Rogerx

Knorf said:


> Speaking of Muti, if you're looking for a more recent recording in superb modern sound, I can whole-heartedly recommend this one. In fact, I prefer it over Muti's Philharmonia recording, which is saying something because that one is excellent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verdi's Requiem has been well-served in recordings, with numerous historical and modern recordings. But this one is special.
> 
> I'm a professional bassoonist, and have performed this work many times, including three of the four bassoon parts (I've never played the 4th part.) It is a piece dear to my heart. Don't let the exciting bombast of the Dies Irae cause you to miss the many moments of great beauty and subtlety!


I agree about the sound but the singers are better on his first recording with Blats etc.


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## The3Bs

For a long time I had only 3 that I favored:

Georg Solti - Sutherland, Horne, Pavarotti, Talvela, Wiener Staatsopernchor, Wiener Philharmoniker (have both on LP and CD)

John Eliot Gardiner - Orgonasova, Von Otter, Canonici, Miles, Monteverdi Choir, Orchestre Révolutionnaire Et Romantique

Ferenc Fricsay - Maria Stader, Marianna Radev, Helmut Krebs, Kim Borg, RIAS-Kammerchor, RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin

But have in the last few years added (and might still have at least 2 still to be opened and so not listed)

Fritz Reiner - Leontyne Price, Rosalind Elias, Jussi Björling, Giorgio Tozzi, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

Carlo Maria Giulini - Schwarzkopf, Ludwig, Gedda, Ghiaurov, Baker, Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra

Carlo Maria Giulini - cab not find the soloists at the moment (BBC Legend), Philharmonia Orchestra

And this year discovered a new Fantastic live performance:

Fantastic, Fabulous, unique and spectacular LIVE Verdi Requiem that can be watched for the time being for FREE (at the time of writing) on the Berliner Philarmoniker Digital Concert Hall platform (HD and very good sound)

Berliner Philharmoniker
Teodor Currentzis

Zarina Abaeva soprano
Annalisa Stroppa mezzo-soprano
Sergey Romanovsky tenor
Evgeny Stavinsky bass
musicAeterna Choir

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concert/52511


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## Knorf

Rogerx said:


> I agree about the sound but the singers are better on his first recording with Blats etc.


I actually overall prefer the singing on the new one, mainly because the choir is better. The soloists are a wash between them, in my opinion. The orchestra playing is better, and the conducting has more depth and subtlety in the new one, but also the exciting bombast is even more so in the new one, with better focus on a large scale dramatic shape. And unquestionably the sound is better.


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## Barelytenor

Enthusiast said:


> Everyone focuses on the famous Dies Irae - a very dramatic and exciting part - but the work's heart is in the very beautiful music that you feel uninvolving and then anticlimactic. It was the Dies Irae that drew me to the piece, too, but then I found it got in the way of my really appreciating what a masterpiece the work is.
> 
> Is it operatic? It sounds like Verdi. It _is _dramatic (as is the St John Passion) but there is an implied criticism in calling it operatic and it is not clear what that criticism is. The Requiem is Verdi applying his art to the services of ... God? Maybe but more likely the Catholic Church. But we don't criticise the Brahms Requiem as symphonic. And the Berlioz requiem? What is that? What is the opposite to operatic in this context?


Well, I guess it just depends on whether you like opera, first off, and second, whether you think that those compositional techniques are appropriate for sacred texts. Personally, I don't think calling the Verdi Requiem "operatic" is a criticism, but I know there are many who do. (It's always accompanied with an upturned nose, as though to avoid smelling a turd.) But then, as I've stated, I'm an opera singer (retired).

Many years ago, I used to sing in a church choir where the conductor one day asked me what solo I would like to sing. I answered, "the Lord's Prayer" by Alfred Hay Malotte. His response was, "Oh, that's so operatic." I left the church choir shortly afterward, realizing that our musical tastes would never align (and that he had no respect for my talents). Yes, that song is hackneyed, it's easy (as long as you have the vocal range of an octave and a fifth in your given key, exactly the same as the "Star Spangled Banner"), but it also provides, I think, many worshipers with a genuine religious experience. (It's also a bit difficult to slot into many traditional worship services, since the people recite that text every Sunday-but that's a different discussion.)

Anyway. I bet in Bach's day many listeners felt that some of his compositions were pretty over the top as well. And Verdi, OTOH, did show he could tone it down, as for example in the Quattro Pezzi Sacri (Four Sacred Pieces).

And yes, there is no "opposite" to operatic. When I sing a much simpler setting such as the Fauré Requiem, of course I try to tone down the vibrato and the volume and interpret the music in proper character.

My 2c.


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## Rogerx

Knorf said:


> I actually overall prefer the singing on the new one, mainly because the choir is better. The soloists are a wash between them, in my opinion. The orchestra playing is better, and the conducting has more depth and subtlety in the new one, but also the exciting bombast is even more so in the new one, with better focus on a large scale dramatic shape. And unquestionably the sound is better.


I do mean the one with Scotto, Agnes Baltsa, Veriano Luchetti and Evgeny Nesterenko
Philharmonia Orchestra & Ambrosian Chorus.

Not the one with Pavarotti etc.


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## Knorf

I knew what you meant.  I have both, and enjoy them both!


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## DavidA

Barelytenor said:


> Anyway. I bet in Bach's day many listeners felt that some of his compositions were pretty over the top as well.
> 
> My 2c.


You bet they did! Huge waves of protest that the St JohnPassion was 'theatre music'


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