# Kempff's Beethoven Piano Sonata Cycle



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Ok, I was all about Brendel for the last two years or so, but this is blowing my mind right now and I've heard it before, but it's clicking now in a new way, I can hear the pain in Kempff and Beethoven.

Beautiful.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think Kempff overall has a more aggressive attack on the keys than Alfred B which suits Beethoven nicely.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Which cycle? I think he made at least 3 complete ones. I was listening to Op.2 from the thirties yesterday


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I still love Brendel too though.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Triplets said:


> Which cycle? I think he made at least 3 complete ones. I was listening to Op.2 from the thirties yesterday


https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Co...ocphy=9015632&hvtargid=pla-642104410952&psc=1


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

His mono cycle is widely regarded as his best but stereo one is also great, it`s a bit restrained at places (mostly with the "glamour" sonatas) but I blame DG for this rather than Kempff. Tokyo cycle (live) is also very good but it`s understandably less focused than the rest. As Brendel said about Kempff, he performed on impulses and whims therefore every performance is unique and worth hearing.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Didn't he make a bit too many mistakes? (It's a bit understandable considering his age though.) My parents are quite fond of


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## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

I imprinted on Kempff's stereo Beethoven recordings when I was a kid, and I continue to find them very nourishing. I've recently gotten into his Schubert as well, which I'm also loving.

A particular favorite:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think I prefer the mono. More soul to me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Moved on to his violin sonatas of Beethoven. Very proud playing, in a good way. Good energy!


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## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Moved on to his violin sonatas of Beethoven. Very proud playing, in a good way. Good energy!


Nice! I've by no means heard all of Kempff's recordings, but in my mental rolodex, he's filed under "Artists You Can Trust." I just trust that any recording of his that I might pick up is going to be solid and sincere and legitimate in a way that you just can't argue with. You might like it more or less (his Beethoven concertos are not my go-to, for instance), but it won't leave you wondering "why has _this_ survived all these years?"


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

John Zito said:


> Nice! I've by no means heard all of Kempff's recordings, but in my mental rolodex, he's filed under "Artists You Can Trust." I just trust that any recording of his that I might pick up is going to be solid and sincere and legitimate in a way that you just can't argue with. You might like it more or less (his Beethoven concertos are not my go-to, for instance), but it won't leave you wondering "why has _this_ survived all these years?"


Great detailed moral shopping code for music lovers alike!  haha :tiphat:


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Have you ever tried Wilhelm Backhaus in Beethoven, no must ,just a tip. 
I do like Kempff cycle but not as much as the Backhaus


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Have you ever tried Wilhelm Backhaus in Beethoven, no must ,just a tip.
> I do like Kempff cycle but not as much as the Backhaus


Very trained, but lacking the emotional depth of Kempff I'd say.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Kempff plays a transcendent Op. 109.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Very trained, but lacking the emotional depth of Kempff I'd say.


I did start on the Zoltan Kocsis box, good playing, try them.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Very trained, but lacking the emotional depth of Kempff I'd say.


Backhaus has got a more firm touch than Kempff's poetic singing touch, but to say that Backhaus lacks emotional depth is to misjudge him. Listen eg. to his op. 109 third movement or op. 111 second movement.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

From my listening, I've found that the earlier you go with Wilhelm Kempff--such as on his APR Beethoven Piano Sonata recordings--the more technically dazzling his playing becomes, & this can count for a lot in Beethoven's most difficult sonatas: 



. Which doesn't negate his later DG mono cycle, either. Those performances have their merits, too.

But, for me, there are other pianists that find a more mercurial & deeply expressive emotional/psychological range within the 32 Piano Sonatas than either Kempff or Brendel, who similarly take a more restrained, classical approach (which can be incredibly beautiful, nonetheless)--such as Rudolf Serkin, Youra Guller, Svitoslav Richter, Emil Gilels--especially live, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Clara Haskil, Annie Fischer, Sequeira Costa, & Solomon.

R. Serkin:


























Guller:





Gilels:

















Costa: 









Richter:













Haskil:





Yet, I absolutely treasure Kempff's mono Beethoven Piano Concerto 1-5 cycle with the great Beethoven conductor, Paul van Kempen, & the Berlin Philharmonic. It's one of my top five cycles, along with Serkin/Kubelik, Arrau/Haitink, Schiff/Haitink, & Brendel/Haitink (& Lubin/Hogwood on period instruments).

Kempff/Kempen--Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor": 




& here are some selected movements from the cycle, since I can't find the complete set on You Tube anymore,


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I bought this set in 2020 when it came out, it was a presently surprising experience.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

premont said:


> Backhaus has got a more firm touch than Kempff's poetic singing touch, but to say that Backhaus lacks emotional depth is to misjudge him. Listen eg. to his op. 109 third movement or op. 111 second movement.


Certainly not to the level of Kempff I must say.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> I bought this set in 2020 when it came out, it was a presently surprising experience.


:lol: You posted about a different composer and performer in the same thread!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> :lol: You posted about a different composer and performer in the same thread!


I' am just awake, I changed the pic. :angel:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> I' am just awake, I changed the pic. :angel:


A rather lush Beethoven. I like it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I've been on a Op. 109 kick lately ever since suggested to me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Kempff's Mozart is nice too.


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

Rogerx said:


> I bought this set in 2020 when it came out, it was a presently surprising experience.


I really liked DBP Mozart sonatas. For me,it's my reference of the Mozart sonatas. However,I have the complete Beethoven sonatas,Bach Goldberg Variotions and somewhat not listening to those recordings. First of all,it's either the sound engineering or the actual piano but it just seems too fast,too hard etc. I can't put my finger on it. There is no information about the piano that was used or the recording conditions. I reached out to DBP about the the piano used. No response. So I love the Mozart piano sonatas. But other recordings leave me perplexed.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

FrankinUsa said:


> I really liked DBP Mozart sonatas. For me,it's my reference of the Mozart sonatas. However,I have the complete Beethoven sonatas,Bach Goldberg Variotions and somewhat not listening to those recordings. First of all,it's either the sound engineering or the actual piano but it just seems too fast,too hard etc. I can't put my finger on it. There is no information about the piano that was used or the recording conditions. I reached out to DBP about the the piano used. No response. So I love the Mozart piano sonatas. But other recordings leave me perplexed.


I see half what you mean, going to spin one disc today and the too hard I agree fully. Not the playing but the sound.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

This is Kempff at his finest


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> This is Kempff at his finest
> 
> View attachment 162986


Just fantastic, never heard it like that before. Stunning!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Just fantastic, never heard it like that before. Stunning!


Looks very interesting indeed , that Bach disc. :angel:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Rogerx said:


> Have you ever tried Wilhelm Backhaus in Beethoven, no must ,just a tip.
> I do like Kempff cycle but not as much as the Backhaus


I am exploring Backhaus currently. He is more "interventional" than Kempe with his rubato (try the first movement of the Moonlight) but I tend to be persuaded by most of his choices


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Looks very interesting indeed , that Bach disc. :angel:


And sounds spiritual and proud, like the cover displays.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> And sounds spiritual and proud, like the cover displays.


Kempff was keen enough on Bach to make his own piano transcriptions of some of the organ pieces. He recorded them twice.

The first set, from 1953, is IMO a great treasure. The second much less so. This is what you need

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8476842--kempff-plays-bach


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> And sounds spiritual and proud, like the cover displays.


It's on my wish list, you are convincing .


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Josquin13 said:


> From my listening, I've found that the earlier you go with Wilhelm Kempff--such as on his APR Beethoven Piano Sonata recordings--the more technically dazzling his playing becomes, & this can count for a lot in Beethoven's most difficult sonatas:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 MR, you remember Edgar Self (Piso Mojado) from Amazon forum, I don't know where else to post these his recommendations. They've helped me. 
He's replying to Henry James, another interesting poster back then.

"Rubinstein's recordings of Brahms's great five-movement Sonata in F minor Op. 5 is as good or better than Edwin Fischer's or Ervin Nyiregyhazi's, although Fischer does some favorite parts very beautifully, and E. N. had crushing strength and power.
I agree with Henry about Rubinstein and Franck's "Prelude, Chorale and Fugue", in the class of, and perhaps even a little better than, Svyatoslav Richter and Alfred Cortot
I also agree about Andras Schiff's excellent in Beethoven and Schubert, and he is one of the few to play the primo repeat in the "Pathetique" right by my, and his, lights, like the French overture style that it assuredly is.
I could never know how beautiful Schumann can be were it not for Richter, Rubinstein, Sofronitzki, and, especially, Cortot and Moiseiwitsch.
Without them, history of Schumann performance is not complete.
Another of Rubinstein's countless superior readings is of Grieg's concerto, along with Slåttebrekk, Richter, and Moiseiwitsch. 
Any Schumann list without Moiseiwitsch and Cortot is Hamlet without the Prince and Horatio, although Richter, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Demus, Gianoli, Michelangeli, and Nikolayeva and Sofronitzki are not far behind.
I remember also some fine Schumann from grandfather Erno von Dohnanyi. Edwin Fischer's op.17 Fantasy is a noble effort, but Moiseiwitsch's is on another planet entirely. There are a few precious measures of Cortot playing the opening of the Fantasy in his master-class recordings. Backhaus was tender and affecting in "Waldszenen". Elly Ney disappointing in "Kinderszenen", which Horowitz almost couldn't play at all. Richter and Haskil play "Papillons" well, but Cortot is perfection itself, even note-perfect for him."


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

I have the Kempff mono cycle and find it very enjoyable. The mono 8/14/23 was my very first LP of the LvB PS and the Pathetique inspired me to learn it. 

I would describe Kempff's approach to Beethoven as cultured and more akin to playing Mozart, Haydn (and possibly Schubert). While this works exceptionally well with the lesser known sonatas in the bigger sonatas he comes across as underpowered to my thinking. Maybe it's because I like a little bit of bombast with my Beethoven (enter Richter, early Serkin and Gilels live). The best way to describe it is that Kempff is always totally in control but he doesn't 'live on the edge' which I think you have to do with LvB at times. I haven't heard the 1930s set but it might be interesting to see what Kempff was up to 30+ years earlier.

Good to see the Serkin performances from the late 40s early 50s included. One caveat is that his magnificent Waldstein wasn't there. I have this set from Music&Arts and it's glorious Beethoven playing.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I still love Brendel too though.


I think in the end I still prefer Brendel. But it was nice to get excited about Kempff for a while, and I still think he's good. I just like Brendel's smooth touch.


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