# Discussion Thread about Folk Music



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

I'm surprised that isn't a discussion thread about Folk Music, despite there are some interest in the subject. If it has already done in the past but was a dud, then it has escaped my attention.

My intention for this thread is to create a space that is similar to the Jazz Hole and Rap, Hip-Hop, Neo-Soul, R&B, Funk thread, where there is a space for discussing topics releating to the thread genre. This thread is dedicated to folk music, where you can post anything relating to the music, musician, influence, history, etc.

I hope this would be a cool thread for the community to try out.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Although Sufjan Steve is one of my favorite indie folk artist, his latest album didn't impact me the same emotional currents that I felt from his previous works, such as Carrie & Lowell.

What are your guys thoughts on Sufjan's The Ascension album? Did you like it or feel a bit underwhelmed by it? Interested in your thoughts.

Here is the full album from his official YouTube channel:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

There is an existing folk thread here. 
Folk Music


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

starthrower said:


> There is an existing folk thread here.
> Folk Music


Yikes, I have missed it.  Even with google search engine (folk music site:talkclassical.com). 
Well, I hope there isn't much harm in a duplicate thread as the other one didn't have much activity in recent weeks or months.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't think anyone will mind.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*The Askew Sisters*



> New video by folk duo The Askew Sisters from their upcoming album 'Enclosure', to be released 3rd May 2019. The song is based on an old rhyme about land enclosure.
> 
> "We really like the power and simplicity of these words and how they feel starkly relevant in today's society. The earliest reference to it that we can find is from The Gentleman's Mathematical Companion in 1816, where it's noted as being seen on a handbill in Plaistow protesting a Bill for the enclosure of Epping Forest, but its origins may well be much older. Hazel wrote a tune for the words and the whole song fell into place once Emily added some driving cello."
> 
> ...









> "We found this whilst searching through the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library archives, and were struck by the profound sense of disconnection that runs through the song, whether from the natural world or some deeper internal struggle. In the absence of a melody, one quickly wrote itself. There is a wonderful openness and ambiguity in the lyrics, which felt unusual for a traditional song, and some further digging revealed some other traditional versions and broadsides with more words and a clearer narrative. This eventually led back to what appears to be the poem it originated from, The Brookside by Richard Monckton Milnes, Lord Houghton (1809-1885). We also later discovered that it was made famous by Eva Cassidy on her Songbird album to a very different tune that Barbara Berry wrote."
> 
> Hazel Askew - Voice, Melodeon
> Emily Askew - Cello


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I love these guys! Bukkene Bruse. The singer now plays violin in the Oslo Philharmonic.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

I'm interested in the American Folk Music, practically the traditional ones, and just bought a copy of Alan Lomax's _The Land Where the Blues Began_ to learn more about the art.

The Smithsonian Folkways' _Anthology of American Folk Music_ was recommended to me as a comprehensive overview of the genre, but it's not on Tidal and a bit too expensive for my liking. Does anyone who is kind enough to share a recording/album that I can find on Tidal, online, or inexpensive?

Thanks!

Also how does folk music from different regions differ in the general sense, for instance, Appalachia versus the Mississippi Delta?


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Conrad2 said:


> Also how does folk music from different regions differ in the general sense, for instance, Appalachia versus the Mississippi Delta?


Appalachian music is mostly fiddle and banjo music much of it based on Scots-Irish folk music that came over with the first settlers. It formed the basis of bluegrass and country music, although it also has some blues elements. Prominent artists inclde The Carter Family, Clarence "Tom" Ashley, Buell Kazee, Charlie Poole, Bascom Lamar Lunsford (a great collector and preserver). The revival occurred in the '60s with Doc Watson, Norman Blake, and even Gillian Welch has roots in this music.

Mississippi Delta is exclusively blues, sometimes called Country Blues. The main exponents are Charlie Patton, Robert Johnson, Son House, and Muddy Waters who after moving to Chicago created the modern electric blues.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

SanAntone said:


> Appalachian music is mostly fiddle and banjo music much of it based on Scots-Irish folk music that came over with the first settlers. It formed the basis of bluegrass and country music, although it also has some blues elements. Prominent artists inclde The Carter Family, Clarence "Tom" Ashley, Buell Kazee, Charlie Poole, Bascom Lamar Lunsford (a great collector and preserver). The revival occurred in the '60s with Doc Watson, Norman Blake, and even Gillian Welch has roots in this music.
> 
> Mississippi Delta is exclusively blues, sometimes called Country Blues. The main exponents are Charlie Patton, Robert Johnson, Son House, and Muddy Waters who after moving to Chicago created the modern electric blues.


Thanks for the explanation, really appreciate it. I was a bit confused as bluemusic which orginate from the Appalachia region, I read it was influenced by African-American blues and jazz which I associated with the Delta region (source).

Folk is really a melting pot of culture.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Conrad2 said:


> Thanks for the explanation, really appreciate it. I was a bit confused as bluemusic which orginate from the Appalachia region, I read it was influenced by African-American blues and jazz which I associated with the Delta region (source).
> 
> Folk is really a melting pot of culture.


Yeah, I mentioned that Appalachian does have some blues elements. Originally the banjo was played exclusively by Blacks, dating from the slave era, and probably a version of a single string instrument from Africa. Dock Boggs is a white banjoist who plays blues.

There are two main styles: clawhammer and Scruggs style. The clawhammer style is older, and more African, and the prevalent Applachian style. Scruggs style is the most popular style for bluegrass.

The influence went both ways with Black string bands playing many of the same songs as their White counterparts. What really changed was when record companies wanted to focus their recordings to specific audiences: "Race" records, mainly blues and jazz; and "Hillbilly" music for white rural folk.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I am not a fan of the vast majority of American folk music at all.

While I can appreciate the Appalachian stuff, I actually like the Irish and Scottish music it evolved from much more.

I am not a fan of Blues or country at all, or the folk of Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Phil Ochs, etc.

The only type of folk music that I am somewhat of a fan of, is Celtic music. Like Malicorne, Steeleye Span, Pentangle. Alan Stivell.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

SanAntone said:


> There are two main styles: clawhammer and Scruggs style. The clawhammer style is older, and more African, and the prevalent Applachian style. Scruggs style is the most popular style for bluegrass.
> 
> The influence went both ways with Black string bands playing many of the same songs as their White counterparts. What really changed was when record companies wanted to focus their recordings to specific audiences: "Race" records, mainly blues and jazz; and "Hillbilly" music for white rural folk.


Hmm, wasn't aware of that banjo style distinction. Thanks.

I search for videos that add on to what you stated in your post.






From the comparison video, what I can made from it was that the Clawhammer style tend to make each note distinct while the other style each note support each other (idk if that make sense or is right).

I went deeper and found this article that explored African American influence.



> The most distinctive features of African-American musical traditions can be traced back in some form or other to Africa. Many of the expressive performance practices seen as synonymous with African American music, including blue notes and call-and-response, have their roots in techniques originally developed in western and central Africa before arriving to the United States via the Middle Passage. Over the centuries, African American musicians have drawn on the ancestral connection to Africa as a source of pride and inspiration.
> The banjo was one of the most important instruments in early African American music, and though seldom associated with African Americans in contemporary popular culture, it is a classic example of the way that African Americans blended African and European musical traditions together in the United States. The earliest banjos were likely based on West African lutes. Over the course of centuries, banjo makers gradually adapted their instruments to conform to European tuning systems, resulting in a truly American instrument that incorporated Western music theory even as its design recalled its African models.
> 
> Jazz is another iconic example of African American musical hybridity that occupies a central position in the Musical Crossroads gallery. In the late 19th century, African American musicians combined popular songs and marches with African American folk forms like ragtime, sacred music, and the blues to create a new form of heavily syncopated and improvisatory music. Jazz, as the music came to be called, today occupies such a central place in America's cultural heritage that many fans and scholars call it "America's classical music."


I went looking for African American folk music and found this album done by the Library of Congress.





I found an album about traditional ballads in the Appalachian region from the Smithsonian Folkways project.




It's sound somewhat similar to the ballads that Simon Moon kindly posted and distinct from the above album.

I found that the call and response structure and the rhythm (particular the drums) in the 1st album and the ballad story telling in the 2nd album coalaseces into what I find on a typical folk music recording.

For example:




Sufjan Stevens's _Fourth Of July_, incorporated the call and response structure that came from Africa to tell a ballad story while singing in a spoken word fashion (not sure if that's the right terminology) that is similar to the Brits. The artist also incorporate his own take through use of electric instruments. (Please excuse my example if it's bit too "modern" but it was the 1st thing that came to mind).

I will explore the segregation of music under the recording companies at a later date, but so far my appreciation of the genre is deepen.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Simon Moon said:


> The only type of folk music that I am somewhat of a fan of, is Celtic music. Like Malicorne, Steeleye Span, Pentangle. Alan Stivell.


They sound very nice. Do you have any recommendations for album/recording of Celtic music, as I'm largely not exposed to it? Thanks in advance.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Just finished to listening to Rhiannon Giddens and Francesco Turrisi's _They're Calling Me Home_.

Very moving and beautiful. "Water Bound" was my favorite track.






This is the 1st album from her and him that I have listen to, and from now on I have to keep tabs on her work.

When listening to this album I feel a sense of homesick that emanates from the song's ballad like quality, where the instrument backing gives support to Gidden's radiant singing. My words is quite inadequate so perhaps the following article express some of the emotion I felt while listening to this work.

Here is a review by _Under the Rader_:


> They're Calling Me Home is an homage to traditional songs that hold a special place in the hearts of musicians Rhiannon Giddens and Francesco Turrisi. The duo's second album in two years features folk songs, lullabies, and spirituals, all of which have been influential to Giddens and Turrisi. Each track is an emotional glimpse of their musical DNA: reworked folk songs and lullabies, refreshed with the virtuosic pulse of two of the world's finest maestros.
> 
> The concept of "home" is at the center of this record, but it's in the different ideas of home that compose the album's nervous system. There are, of course, the tracks that are important to Giddens and Turrisi: tracks that represent their musical homes. And then there are the tracks that remind the musicians of their literal homes: for Giddens, that's North Carolina; for Turrisi, Italy.
> 
> ...


Here is an interview of the artists conducted by the same site:


> What is it about traditional music, old time music that speaks to you and what about it sticks with you?
> 
> Well, it's just got very deep roots. All the different aspects of American Roots music that I've been exploring, whether it's Anglo-Celtic music or if it's African-American stuff or everything in between. Because that's the thing, once things come from across the ocean, once they hit the United States, they automatically start mixing. You take somebody like Sheila Kay Adams who sings ballads from the old country but the way that she sings them, the way that folks do that has been affected by other groups. That's what I love. I love going across the ocean and learning about that. But the stuff that's really interesting to me is the early Americana before we started splitting stuff up and segregating music. I just think there's a lot to be gained by exploring that world.
> What about the new record? What was the genesis of it? It's multi-lingual, there are a lot of important themes and influences from all over the world. How did the new album come about?
> ...


After reading this I became more interested in the artist so I found a video of her giving a public talk on Ted-ed, that discuss the African American influence on the folk genre, and the historical context of the genre. 





Another video I found of her talking about folk music:





If are still reading to the end, tomorrow (4/28/21) during the evening, Carnegie Hall is doing a live premiere of her album on Youtube. Here is the link if you are interested.

I really enjoyed listening to her, and grateful that I discovered her. I need to explore her works with The Carolina Chocolate Drops. Hopefully I like her works with that band.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)




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