# Beethoven's String Quartets vs Piano Sonatas



## Livly_Station

On your left, 32 piano sonatas. On your right, 16 string quartets. 

The dispute looks almost unfair considering one is twice the size of the other, but it's arguable that Beethoven really made each quartet vital, whereas not all sonatas are masterpieces -- but, still, there are many gems and wonders among them. Really tough!

At the end of the day, which one of the two is your favorite collection?


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## Bulldog

I'll take the piano sonatas. If the "hammerklavier" sonata was not in the mix, I'd switch to the string quartets.


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## Malx

Thats like choosing between your left leg and right leg - both are essential.


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## Livly_Station

Malx said:


> Thats like choosing between your left leg and right leg - both are essential.


Well, that's not quite the question here. It's not for you to decide which leg to amputate, but rather to tell me if you kick the ball with the left or with the right leg.


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## Livly_Station

Bulldog said:


> I'll take the piano sonatas. If the "hammerklavier" sonata was not in the mix, I'd switch to the string quartets.


His greatest work, in your opinion?

I'm torn here because I think my favorite pieces by Beethoven are actually some of the late quartets (13 and 15 mostly, but also 12 and 14), and some of the middle ones are not far behind (especially 7 and 10). But then again, it's hard because the quantity of sonatas do matter, since many of them have an unique personality even if individually they don't reach the same heights as the best ones, not to mention the masterpieces like the last 5 and some of the middle ones that are almost as good as the best quartets.


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## CnC Bartok

String Quartets by quite a long way. There are some Piano Sonatas which are (of course, very nice, but...) hardly earth-shattering masterpieces, whilst "even" the Op.18 Quartets are wonders for their time.

And while I am never ever going to be dismissive of the late Sonatas, however superb the last few Sonatas are (especially Op.111 in my humble opinion), they are not quite on the same exalted level as the late Quartets (especially Opp.130-133). 

Obviously this is comparing the incompare-able, and merely a personal opinion.....


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## Kreisler jr

Quartets by a small but clear margin. The quantity of the sonatas does matter and a really enjoyed listening to all sonatas in a bunch of different recordings a few weeks ago. 
I probably listen less to the quartets in "everyday listening". But of 16 (or 18, if one counts op.133 and the op.14/1 arrangement) the only one I consider rather weak is the c minor (and even this has one or two pretty good movements). Whereas there are some slight works and others I could do without among the piano sonatas, not that I would want to, of course. It seems pretty clear that the piano sonata was the field where Beethoven was daring and experimental and this included some rough spots and relative failures as well as at least the early sonatinas op.49 mainly published for commercial reasons. So we get more variety but also more works not among Beethoven's best. The sonatas are also skewed towards early(ish) pieces, 20 of them were written until 1802 (that is up to the 2nd symphony).

String quartet were the "smallest of large scale works" and Beethoven would take pains to publish only very accomplished pieces.


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## Art Rock

String quartets by a large margin. Mainly because I like the genre much more than solo piano works ( and for the piano I prefer shorter romantic pieces rather than sonatas).


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## Dan Ante

St Quartets because that is my favorite genre but the sonatas are super and I do like a change now and then.


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## jegreenwood

Dan Ante said:


> St Quartets because that is my favorite genre but the sonatas are super and I do like a change now and then.


Second that. Also Art Rock's post.


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## Malx

Livly_Station said:


> Well, that's not quite the question here. It's not for you to decide which leg to amputate, but rather to tell me if you kick the ball with the left or with the right leg.


To use your analogy - I'm two footed. 
Right now I am in a quartet listening zone in general, but in previous times I have listened more to piano sonatas - I really can't chose one above the other.


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## Bulldog

Livly_Station said:


> His greatest work, in your opinion?


The "hammerklavier" sonata is my favorite Beethoven along with symphony 9 and the op. 5 cello sonatas (only from Coin/Cohen).


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## SanAntone

I won't vote since both cycles are among my favorite sets, and there is absolutely no reason to choose between them.


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## Manxfeeder

Given a choice, I would choose the string quartets, mainly weighted by the late quartets. But I would put the piano sonatas at the top of any list of composers' piano sonatas.


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## Kreisler jr

The tougher/closer one for me would be Violin sonatas vs. Cello sonatas vs. Piano trios.


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## Livly_Station

Kreisler jr said:


> The tougher/closer one for me would be Violin sonatas vs. Cello sonatas vs. Piano trios.


For my tastes, it would easily be the Piano Trios since one of my quirks is that I'm not a fan of the duo "piano + [homophonic instrument]". And, I mean, the trios are truly awesome.


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## Highwayman

I can easily say I like all 48 works very much so at the end of the day quantity decides the winner for me. I probably listen to the late SQs more than the late Sonatas whereas I definitely listen to the early Sonatas (even the _Leichte Sonaten_) much more frequently than the Op. 18 Quartets thus I voted for the Sonatas.

If the Symphonies were also in the mix they would draw the shortest straw as the first couple symphonies are clearly my least favourite works in this fictional group of 57 works.

In response to #15: Piano Trios > Cello Sonatas > Violin Sonatas (I don`t care too much for the latter except the Kreutzer Sonata.)


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## AClockworkOrange

I couldn’t pick one over the other as my preference would depend entirely on my mood at a particular time.

At the moment, my mood would point me towards the String Quartets but that could change.


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## Livly_Station

I finally decided to vote for string quartets, which is curious because I generally prefer piano music. It's just that B's quartets are _that_ good.

Was just listening to Op. 74 and that quartet is amazing, and it's not even the best.


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## ORigel

I cannot live without the late quartets.


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## Chilham

Malx said:


> Thats like choosing between your left leg and right leg - both are essential.


"_I have nothing against your right leg ... The trouble is, neither have you!_" P. Cook

String quartets for me.


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## gnail

Piano sonatas for me but that is because I am learning the piano and is more familiar with the sonatas.


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## Waehnen

Beethoven piano sonatas are amongst the most important music of my life, at the very top with some Brahms and Sibelius. I´ve even managed to play a few sonatas myself, and the late sonatas played by Alfred Brendel are the most frequently played 2 CD´s in our home.

For me the piano sonatas sound as though Beethoven is thinking aloud. There is just Beethoven, the Player, and the Listener. I perceive it as though another human being is talking to another person across the centuries. There is not a crowd of 4 players or the hundred of an orchestra in the middle. There is the absolute minimum of hassle. And the knowledge that Beethoven´s own hands have touched the keyboard back then while conceiving the music.

Think of the musical abundance in the sonatas: E-Major op.14, The Pathétique, The Pastoral, Waldstein, Late e-minor, A-major and E-major, The Hammerklavier, and the final c-minor... The scope of human experience is just so vast.

On the other hand, the string quartets: I absolutely adore the late a-minor, B-major and F-major quartets by Beethoven. (Schubert´s Death and The Maiden and Shostakovich´s 8th quartet are also amongst the greatest music I know.)

But for some reason I prefer piano solos, piano trios, piano quartets, string trios and string quintets to string quartets. String quartets go together with duos as the _non-optimal ensemble_. Or maybe the string quartet is _TOO optimal._ It must have something to do with the much expected and typical textures, polyphony and 4-part writing for a string quartet.

_"Here we have the soprano, here we have the alto, here we have the tenor, here we have the bass, let´s do some dialogue!"_ 

So I dislike "typical" string quartet writing and I only love it when the music breaks the boundaries of the ensemble and genre and becomes great music _*despite *_the fact of being a string quartet. At his best, Beethoven does just that.

As the time passes, I have a feeling I will grow to love the string quartets more and more. The Razumovski´s sure did surprise me positively when I really started to listen to them the other day. So who knows!

But for now, the sonatas are my pick.


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## HerbertNorman

SanAntone said:


> I won't vote since both cycles are among my favorite sets, and there is absolutely no reason to choose between them.


Same here , both of them are essential parts of my collection


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## JTS

HerbertNorman said:


> Same here , both of them are essential parts of my collection


Agreed! Both are works which pushed the boundaries of music beyond anything that had happened before. The late string quartets were not only modern for 1823 - they were modern for 1923 too! Of course, in the piano sonatas you have to include the extraordinary Diabelli Variations which also pushed the limits of piano writing.


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## Kreisler jr

Both the instrument piano and the playing techniques were still quite in flux and the main steps to the modern grand took place in the 1830s and 1840s, so in these respects his piano sonatas + variations were not "cutting edge" for very long (they were in some other respects). This might be one reason why the (late) string quartets stuck out as something special for a longer time.


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## PeterF

I would select the string quartets though I do have a strong affection for the piano sonatas as well.

String quartets are my favorite form of classical music.

Chamber music in all it’s various groupings is also highly important to me.


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## Waehnen

PeterF said:


> String quartets are my favorite form of classical music.


Is it because there are more string quartet masterpieces than in other genres, or does something specifically about the string quartet appeal to you, especially?


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## Olias

The world is already crazy enough, and thankfully we don't have to choose between Beethoven genres. I don't need the stress.


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## premont

I have a problem with the sound of most string quartets especially when modern instruments with steel strings are used with the resulting sharp metallic violin tone. The sound is annoying to the ear. A shame, as a lot of good music has been written for string quartet, including Beethoven's quartets. For this reason, I prefer the piano sonatas.


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## Rogerx

Malx said:


> Thats like choosing between your left leg and right leg - both are essential.


I couldn't have said it better myself .:cheers:


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

Livly_Station said:


> On your left, 32 piano sonatas. On your right, 16 string quartets.
> 
> The dispute looks almost unfair considering one is twice the size of the other, but it's arguable that Beethoven really made each quartet vital, *whereas not all sonatas are masterpieces* -- but, still, there are many gems and wonders among them. Really tough!
> 
> At the end of the day, which one of the two is your favorite collection?


Actually, I think this is the reason why - if forced - I'll take the sonatas. More lightheartedness (ex: op. 49, op. 2, op. 14, and the first 2 from op. 10) and little gems of pieces (op. 78 and op. 79). Certainly nothing wrong with these works, but other than maybe op. 78 I wouldn't consider them "masterpieces". That's OK though; not everything needs to be. Constantly listening to "masterpieces" gets tiring pretty fast; I prefer a mixed bag.


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## Waehnen

As a kind of reply to the thread, I just read that even Beethoven used to criticize the typical string quartet writing styles of the day. He was thankful (Thank GOD, he said, even!) that in the late c#minor quartet he had found an inspired way of writing the four part polyphony and harmony lines and textures.


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## AndorFoldes

The piano sonatas, and it's not even close.


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## Marc

In my 'case' it has less to do with the quality of Beethoven's compositions/genres, and more with my personal love for keyboard instruments. I just can't help that. A string quartet is beautiful no doubt, but the sound of harpsichords, (forte)pianos, organs, whatever... I truly adore it.
This means that I listen more to Beethoven's piano sonatas than to his string quartets. But he masters both genres in an exceptional way.


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## Enthusiast

I was surprised to find that I do actually value the piano sonatas above the quartets. But I still consider the quartets as being among the absolute finest of the genre.


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## mollig

I love Beethoven but weirdly enough with the exception of opus 131 and 132 I've never quite got why the string quartets are considered such towering masterpieces. I get just as much from e.g. the Shostakovich quartets.
So for me the sonatas. Yes, some are forgettable, but at least a third of them are masterpieces and cover every possible emotion and pyschological state, they just give me more than the quartets.


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## Kreisler jr

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Actually, I think this is the reason why - if forced - I'll take the sonatas. More lightheartedness (ex: op. 49, op. 2, op. 14, and the first 2 from op. 10) and little gems of pieces (op. 78 and op. 79).


I probably listen more frequently to the sonatas as they offer some lighter fare and also IMO more room for different interpretations. But I'd still choose the quartets if forced.


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## PeterF

Waehnen said:


> Is it because there are more string quartet masterpieces than in other genres, or does something specifically about the string quartet appeal to you, especially?


I think the reason may be that in string quartets you require an essential blending of 4 musical instrumental voices. Of course a blending is also a factor for larger groups up to a symphony. However the string quartet has both an intellectual and emotional aspect that has resulted in so much great music from Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Mendelssohn,Beethoven and many other composers.
My response. May not be satisfactory, because it boils down to my personal opinion.

One way I might explain this is to state that - if - I had to limit my classical musical collection to just one genre, I would quickly select string quartets.


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## caters

I can’t decide. I love them too much to pick one over the other. I mean I listen to the sonatas more, but that’s not because I like them more, or maybe I do by just a tad? It’s tough. My favorite of the quartets is his fourth. And my favorite of the sonatas, I have 3 actually, Pathetique, Appassionata, and Waldstein. But I haven’t listened to the quartets as much as I have the sonatas(I’ve listened to every sonata at least once whereas I have only heard a few of his string quartets in full) so that’s not really a fair comparison.


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## John Zito

Marc said:


> In my 'case' it has less to do with the quality of Beethoven's compositions/genres, and more with my personal love for keyboard instruments. I just can't help that. A string quartet is beautiful no doubt, but the sound of harpsichords, (forte)pianos, organs, whatever... I truly adore it.
> This means that I listen more to Beethoven's piano sonatas than to his string quartets. But he masters both genres in an exceptional way.


Yupp, that's where I'm at. I can only listen to the sound of a string quartet for so long before I get a little weary, however good. But I can listen to the piano forever.

So the piano sonatas, easily.


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## Guest

John Zito said:


> Yupp, that's where I'm at. I can only listen to the sound of a string quartet for so long before I get a little weary, however good. But I can listen to the piano forever.
> 
> So the piano sonatas, easily.


Completely agree. The Beethoven Piano sonatas are a compendium of the art of composition. Right from the very first one (my go-to Kovacevich) you can hear the classical keyboard sound world but ALREADY the drama and forward momentum is there with Ludwig. Challenging the status quo from WITHIN right from the jump: actually this one sounds rather more Haydn than Mozart.






But, by God, jump to Sonata Op. 10/3 and this is Beethoven anticipating his late great sonatas - and I mean *GREAT BEYOND BELIEF*.

I'll put the Largo e Mesto here. When I heard it I was shell-shocked. Coiled and centripetal, intense yet expansive. Yes, he's nailing it and telling us exactly where he's going to be by the time he gets to Sonatas 28 and following: this time Pollini.






This movement represents the kind of intensity that you find in the String Quartets; no wasted notes....or, as Leonard Bernstein said, "every next note is exactly THE RIGHT NOTE". One instrument does the job of the four in the String Quartets!!


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