# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Round 1, Match #1): Flagstad vs Grob-Prandl



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

As the baritone tournament concludes let's begin with the ladies! Special thanks to resident dramatic soprano expert SeattleOperaFan for helping me put these singers and recordings together 

Kirsten Flagstad, Norway, 1895-1962






Gertrude Grob-Prandl, Austria, 1917-1995






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

Since Mild und Liese was the song chosen to illustrate their voices then it is no contest.

Flagstad, hands down.

If it is Wagnerian it has to be Flagstad for me. With other composers and styles there are obviously other stars that shine. However, if it has anything to do with Wagner then Flagstad is hard to beat.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Grob-Prandl's version is strong, exciting singing that I would gladly go to the theater to hear today. Flagstad rendition is one of the greatest pieces of singing ever recorded.

You can hear the difference in their opening line. Grob-Prandl does fine with it, but Flagstad is pure poetry. Her phrase sounds both spontaneous and perfectly formed, which, to me anyway, is ideal. She keeps it up throughout the whole piece. This recording of _Tristan_ is the recording that first really allowed me to grasp Wagner.

Grob-Prandl, for all the excitement she can generate, also has an obtrusive vibrato that mars several of her recordings. It's not so bad here most of the time, but it shows up in a few places and distracts from her interpretation.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I haven't heard much of Grob-Prandl's work, so this was welcome. It's obviously a significant voice, with an exciting top that must have been impressive in the house, making her more akin to Nilsson and Rysanek than to Flagstad or Traubel, whose voices were centered lower. Her performance, after a vocally unsettled beginning, sounds committed, gathering confidence and intensity as it goes. That said, Flagstad's instrument is unique, and her tender, lyrical approach to this piece is lovely, if not the only way to sing it. She never seems to break a sweat, which has its pluses and minuses. My standard, though, remains Frida Leider's live Met performance from 1933, which conveys an intoxicated ecstasy that wasn't really in Flagstad's makeup. I do appreciate Flagstad's creamy legato and use of portamento (which Leider used to even stronger effect in her performance), a grace which was more or less gone by Grob-Prandl's time.

I can perhaps begin to understand, based on this performance (when was it recorded?) the adulation Grob-Prandl receives from some quarters. Her voice was reportedly huge. But it's Flagstad for me.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This is going to be a fascinating one for me as I'm not a fan of this type of singer. I'm not that keen on Nordic sopranos and I think it is the way the vowels tend to be clipped in Swedish and Norwegian. One component of good technique is to sing with one's natural voice. Cornelius Reid called this singing with 'pure vowels', which I don't find particularly helpful. I would describe it as singing with _your_ vowels, even when singing in a foreign language, where a singer may be more tempted to falsify or put on inauthentic vowels. Flagstad and Nilsson were quite obviously singing correctly from a technical point of view when in their prime, but their accents sound pinched to my ear (not a technical defect, but a characteristic of their natural voices that comes from their native Nordic tongues).

I am more familiar with Flagstad's 50s recordings than I am with those from the 30s. I found this recording a revelation. Her voice is much warmer, her tone sweeter and her phrasing more musical than in a lot of her singing when she was past her prime. There is something magical about her effortless tone in this version of the Liebestod. Furthermore, her expression (including the wonderful hushed tones) and phrasing show her artistry to be supreme. I now understand what all the fuss is about.

I personally prefer Grob-Prandl's general sound and this is some very good singing. However, whoever you put up against Flagstad's best Liebestod wasn't in with a chance. (Perhaps the 1933 Leider version could be introduced into the competition?)

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

No contest: Flagstad, though it seems a bit unfair to compare a demi-goddess with a mere mortal, talented though she may be.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Both renditions seemed rushed to me but I definitely preferred the sound of Flagstad so that is my choice.

I cannot warm to any of these. Seems that the orchestra is forcing them to hurry up. (But then what do I know? I am in foreign territory and probably have no right to vote at all.)


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

The Conte said:


> I am more familiar with Flagstad's 50s recordings than I am with those from the 30s. I found this recording a revelation. Her voice is much warmer, her tone sweeter and her phrasing more musical than in a lot of her singing when she was past her prime. There is something magical about her effortless tone in this version of the Liebestod. Furthermore, her expression (including the wonderful hushed tones) and phrasing show her artistry to be supreme. I now understand what all the fuss is about.


Flagstad's later singing is highly variable. For example, I don't really care for the much praised Furtwangler _Tristan_ because her tone just isn't free or pure enough anymore for that demanding a role. I adore her studio _Dido and Aeneas_, however, because for whatever reason when that recording was made she sounds much more like her younger self. Nilsson has always sounded to me sort of like Flagstad without the warmth or line or ease, and I agree there that it's not my favorite sound. I've never warmed to her as Brunhilde or Isolde (or even Turandot).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Flastad is an easy winner here, though Grob-Prandl evidently had a very fine voice. We'd certainly be pleased to hear such a fne Wagnerian voice today. In this performances Flagstad has it all; a beautiful, firm voice, superb expression, radiance and, at the climax, a wonderfully cathartic release. A bit hard on Grob-Prandl to be up against such brilliance.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> I haven't heard much of Grob-Prandl's work, so this was welcome. It's obviously a significant voice, with an exciting top that must have been impressive in the house, making her more akin to Nilsson and Rysanek than to Flagstad or Traubel, whose voices were centered lower. Her performance, after a vocally unsettled beginning, sounds committed, gathering confidence and intensity as it goes. That said, Flagstad's instrument is unique, and her tender, lyrical approach to this piece is lovely, if not the only way to sing it. *She never seems to break a sweat, which has its pluses and minuses*. My standard, though, remains Frida Leider's live Met performance from 1933, which conveys an intoxicated ecstasy that wasn't really in Flagstad's makeup. I do appreciate Flagstad's creamy legato and use of portamento (which Leider used to even stronger effect in her performance), a grace which was more or less gone by Grob-Prandl's time.


I give the edge to Kirsten even though GP is not far behind and has a great Wagner voice overall, Kirsten has wonderful build up and excellent technique, she brings the science to life in a delightful way and takes us away to another world with her

The slight nick for Kirsten (as Duck mentions) is that her effortless delivery makes me sometimes wish for more fire and drama in her performance, to that end her 49 Recital on Naxos has her most impassioned and best Liebestod and my favorite version of any I have heard

FYI operadepot has handy Liebestod compilation to compare your favorite Isoldes.....


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Here is 49 recital performance, usually we hear Kirstens aria from live performance after singing the full opera for 3+ hours, but here in fresh voice with short program and rests between songs we hear Flagstad unleashed with her most impassioned version, its all here and sweeps you away with its power and ecstasy........the opera gods smile








1949 SF wagner recital


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I suggested the inclusion of Grob Prandl because I am not that familiar with her Wagner. Being house soprano in Vienna mid century is quite a recommendation. I have a feeling her vibrato, that bothers some of you, would be less noticeable in a house, especially in so resonant a voice. If she were around in the last 30 years she might well be the preeminent Wagner singer in the world if it weren't for the fact she didn't like to travel. Yes she has a Nilsson like top, but in Elektra her lower voice was very powerful.
That said, Flagstad is unequaled in this aria. Golden tone and spot on interpretation.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> Here is 49 recital performance, usually we hear Kirstens aria from live performance after singing the full opera for 3+ hours, but here in fresh voice with short program and rests between songs we hear Flagstad unleashed with her most impassioned version, its all here and sweeps you away with its power and ecstasy........the opera gods smile
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that, DA. We have many recordings of Flagstad in the "Liebestod" at different stages of her career. Her interpretation didn't change essentially between 1935 and 1952 (the year she recorded the role complete under Furtwangler), enabling us to judge very precisely the changes in her voice. We should remember that Flagstad was born in 1895 and didn't reach the Met stage until she was forty, in 1935, when she debuted as Sieglinde and soon followed that with Isolde (Birgit Nilsson, similarly, was 41 at her Met debut as Isolde). The present recording, from 1949, would have had the singer at age 54. Her top notes were no longer as free and easy as formerly, and the quick vibrato of her prime had slowed slightly (but never approaches a wobble). I've always felt that her lower range took on an even greater beauty with age; this recording would date from around the time when Joan Sutherland would have heard her and described her voice as the greatest soprano she had ever heard. My feeling is that the voice would have filled a hall with a rich resonance that no recording could ever capture. I imagine Wagner would have been ecstatic to hear her sail through his music without getting a vocal hair out of place, and I also imagine that working with that crazy guy would have supercharged her rather placid temperament just in the way that working with his gifted grandson Wieland brought out the dramatic potential of Nilsson.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

To be honest Grob-Prandl's version sounds more exciting due to more lively and passionate orchestral delivery, Flagstad one is so slow it would almost make Bernstein/Behrens take pale by comparison 
Other than that, Flagstad is the power of nature here and she gets additional 100 points for the looks of Nordic goddess.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

> Here is 49 recital performance, usually we hear Kirstens aria from live performance after singing the full opera for 3+ hours, but here in fresh voice with short program and rests between songs we hear Flagstad unleashed with her most impassioned version, its all here and sweeps you away with its power and ecstasy........the opera gods smile


My only suggestion to Kirsten to improve this performance would be to more softly in a hushed tone release the last phrase, as in a gently setting sun's final rays, wagners music is very suggestive here giving a spiritual almost floating in air feel, but it is not sad or suggests defeat......it is peaceful calm blissful ending, a great concept by RW to conclude this opera IMO

BTW that picture has the golden stage curtain referenced in announcer comments as Kirsten came out in front of stage curtain to personally reach out directly and perform to live audience and close out the recital



> I've always felt that her lower range took on an even greater beauty with age; this recording would date from around the time when *Joan Sutherland* would have heard her and described her voice as the greatest soprano she had ever heard.


Duck who are we to doubt that comment from one soon to be known as "La Stupenda"


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> My only suggestion to Kirsten to improve this performance would be to more softly in a hushed tone release the last phrase, as in a gently setting sun's final rays, wagners music is very suggestive here giving a spiritual almost floating in air feel, but it is not sad or suggests defeat......it is peaceful calm blissful ending, a great concept by RW to conclude this opera IMO
> 
> BTW that picture has the golden stage curtain referenced in announcer comments as Kirsten came out in front of stage curtain to personally reach out directly and perform to live audience and close out the recital
> 
> Duck who are we to doubt that comment from one soon to be known as "La Stupenda"


That final note on "Lust" is a real challenge after a fortissimo climax at the end of a marathon evening. It's rather like the soft ending that Verdi requests at the end of "Celeste Aida," although getting that out of a tenor is an even greater challenge. I'm always sympathetic if it's less ethereal than it should be.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> That final note on "Lust" is a real challenge after a fortissimo climax at the end of a marathon evening. It's rather like the soft ending that Verdi requests at the end of "Celeste Aida," although getting that out of a tenor is an even greater challenge. I'm always sympathetic if it's less ethereal than it should be.


Indeed. It's one of the many reasons I find the 1936 recording so extraordinary.


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