# The World Cup Thread



## Argus

I don't know if there are many football fans here but I thought seeing as there's a hockey thread a World Cup thread was in order.

Who do you think's going to win it then?

I'm really not sure this time round but I think Spain have got a great chance even if they always seem to underperform in the WC. Brazil have always got to be considered as well, even though I do think they have a pretty weak side this year. Argentina have got some excellent players in Messi, Tevez and Milito but they only just qualified and whilst Maradona might have been a good player, I wouldn't consider him a good manager. I don't think Germany have much chance, especially without Ballack, but no doubt they'll make it to the semi's again. I think Cote d'Ivoire will go the farthest out of the African teams but only if they manage to qualify in that difficult group. Other teams like Holland, Italy and Portugal can't be written off but I think it's going to be between Spain and Brazil.

As for England, I really can't see us getting past the last 16 going off our form in the friendlies against Japan and Mexico and also previous World Cup's. We've got some good players and Rooney is world class but I have little confidence in them performing against the big boys. However, Capello is a great manager and if things don't go to plan I hope the papers don't just maul him aloney for the results (unless he doesn't play Rooney).

Anybody here actually going to South Africa for the tournament?


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## jhar26

I'm far more interested in tennis than in football, but I usually follow the world cup. Probably less so this time because most matches will be played during what are working hours over here.

The three main favorites in my not very informed opinion are Spain, Brazil (but I don't understand why they didn't select Ronaldinho) and Argentina because of Messi. If there's a big upset I think it will come from Mexico or one of the African countries.


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## jurianbai

soccer/fpptball is always my favorite sports. at this stage of life I only interested in big event, world cup counted. last news in yahoo say drogda injured his right arm. 

lifetime favorite, Italy. 

something special in this world cup is three east asians join in + aussie + nz .


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## Vaneyes

I enjoy the hoopla or hysteria that surrounds the WC, that's about it. Too much of the actual playing is akin to watching a haircut or paint drying. Handing out the cards is fun.

But usually, I think back to the Monty Python foot-a-ball sketch involving famous philosophers.


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## Argus

jurianbai said:


> soccer/fpptball is always my favorite sports. at this stage of life I only interested in big event, world cup counted. last news in yahoo say drogda injured his right arm.
> 
> lifetime favorite, Italy.
> 
> something special in this world cup is three east asians join in + aussie + nz .


And apparently Rio Ferdinand's injured his knee in training.

Oh yeah, I forgot about North Korea. I wonder what their media will report on when Brazil put about 12 past them in their first game.

I'd say the best hope of an Asian team doing well is South Korea or Japan as they are in pretty evenly matched groups. NZ and Oz will probably come bottom of their groups unless the Balkan teams have a meltdown.



> I enjoy the hoopla or hysteria that surrounds the WC, that's about it. Too much of the actual playing is akin to watching a haircut or paint drying. Handing out the cards is fun.


You're in Canadialand. You're national sport is ice hockey. Therefore you're opinion on what sports are the most entertaining is invalid.

Plus Socrates was a class player in his day. I remember him joining non-league Garforth Town when he was in his 50's and smoking 20 a day. He played for about 10 minutes then was knackered.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Argus said:


> You're in Canadialand. You're national sport is ice hockey. Therefore you're opinion on what sports are the most entertaining is invalid.


Awww- be nice to your fellow Commonwealth-member!


Argus said:


> Plus Socrates was a class player in his day.


Hey, _that's_ a good one. I think I remember the prime of Socrates. During the latter days of the 'Zico' era, right?

I probably follow World Cup more closely than the vast majority of Americans. After the inevitable crash-out of the U.S., rooting interests here (where they exist) pretty much divide upon lines of ethnic origin. So, in my case, that means A) England (and how many disappointing campaigns _has_ it been?), B) Germany, and C) Sweden- (though I maintain interest in all Scandinavian advancers, and followed Denmark's run back when they had Elkjer & the Laudrup Bros.)

My wife is of predominently Italian extraction, so, like the wind that figures to blow _somebody_ some good, there was cause for measured celebration in the 'Philly' household in '06.


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## sospiro

Vaneyes said:


> I enjoy the hoopla or hysteria that surrounds the WC, that's about it. Too much of the actual playing is akin to watching a haircut or paint drying. Handing out the cards is fun.
> 
> But usually, I think back to the Monty Python foot-a-ball sketch involving famous philosophers.


I love football but hate all the media hype surrounding England and hate all the cars with sprouting flags.

Great Python sketch.


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## emiellucifuge

Holland are going to win this time, im sure of it.


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## jhar26

emiellucifuge said:


> Holland are going to win this time, im sure of it.


Well, they are sure of it every four years.  Not that I would mind though because Holland always plays a very attractive attacking game.


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## Argus

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I probably follow World Cup more closely than the vast majority of Americans. After the inevitable crash-out of the U.S., rooting interests here (where they exist) pretty much divide upon lines of ethnic origin. So, in my case, that means A) England (and how many disappointing campaigns _has_ it been?), B) Germany, and C) Sweden- (though I maintain interest in all Scandinavian advancers, and followed Denmark's run back when they had Elkjer & the Laudrup Bros.)


I think the US might have a decent chance of making the quarters this year. They should come out of the group (might even come top if England have a shocker) and if they're lucky avoid Germany in the last 16. But it looks like Argentina or France will be one of the teams they face next so that might be the end of the line.

The rest of the world are lucky because if the US actually took a serious interest in football and invested in training programs and such then they could be serious contenders. As it is, it's the 4th or 5th most popular sport over there and they still get a decent team. All the other countries that do well have football as the most popular sport by a country mile.



> Holland are going to win this time, im sure of it


You missed your opportunities in the 70's.

Seriously, Holland look good up front and in midefield but their defence looks a bit flimsy for me. Also, van Persie seems to be a bit injury prone at the minute.



> I love football but hate all the media hype surrounding England and hate all the cars with sprouting flags.


I don't understand those flags on cars. They just look naff. Then again I think most overly patriotic gestures are just tacky.


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## andruini

We are all holding our breath here in Mexico, but as always I'll bet on us getting beat in quarters..
After that, I'm with England or Holland.


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## emiellucifuge

Yes please do not remind me of the 70s... 

But now im being honest, our last two attempts were close to disastrous but weve fixed our problems this year. A new coach, fresh new players.

So far weve not lost a single match, a record since west germany - who then went on to win that tournament.


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## jurianbai

how about Spain?


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## sospiro

Argus said:


> ... I don't understand those flags on cars. They just look naff. Then again I think most overly patriotic gestures are just tacky.


*IMPORTANT INFORMATION FROM THE DVLA*

In order to assist other motorists in identifying potentially dangerous drivers, it is now compulsory for anyone with a lower than average driving ability to display a warning flag.

The flag, consisting of a red cross on a white background, will be attached to the top of the door of their vehicle.

For drivers of exceptionally low ability, additional flags are required.


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## Chris

A little World Cup story. In 1990 I was on holiday in the middle of nowhere in County Clare, Ireland. England was playing West Germany and I found a little country pub with a tiny TV showing the match. Dozens of locals were there. All was quiet until West Germany scored, and the whole pub erupted in a huge YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!


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## Argus

The soundtrack to the World Cup:






This one reminds me of Ornette Coleman:






Every South Africa game will just be a cacophony of drones from the vuvuzela. Apparently, many fans want them banned as they not only distract players and spectators but they can cause some hearing loss.


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## Sid James

I think it's great that Australia have qualified for the World Cup again. That said, I'm not hugely into watching sport of any kind. I watched the highlights back when it was on in the USA & France. I really liked the dynamism of the African teams. Most of the rest's playing styles I found rather boring and safe, especially Brazil & Italy. They only get to the end because they don't take any risks. For them, the sport is more of a business than a game & it just makes the viewing rather bland for me...


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## Argus

Andre said:


> I think it's great that Australia have qualified for the World Cup again. That said, I'm not hugely into watching sport of any kind. I watched the highlights back when it was on in the USA & France. I really liked the dynamism of the African teams. Most of the rest's playing styles I found rather boring and safe, especially Brazil & Italy. They only get to the end because they don't take any risks. For them, the sport is more of a business than a game & it just makes the viewing rather bland for me...


Italy are well known for their defensive style (catenaccio and all that) but Brazil (and Holland) play a very exciting and entertaining version of the game. Their full backs act more like wingers most of the time and the wingers are always joining the striker(s) up front.

I don't know who Australia's big players are this time. It used to be Viduka and Kewell but I haven't seen much of them recently. Maybe Cahill and Emerton? Anyway Aussies seem more bothered about winning the Ashes or the Rugby WC than football.


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## Chris

I've just read that the Brazilian refereeing England's first match is learning English swear words so he knows when certain of our players are abusing him


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## Grosse Fugue

Chris said:


> I've just read that the Brazilian refereeing England's first match is learning English swear words so he knows when certain of our players are abusing him


Very funny. Unfortunaly I will miss the first match. As an American living in England I will support the USA. After they are out I will support England.


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## emiellucifuge

Indeed i very much doubt USA will get further than Holland, but if that should happen then they are my choice!


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## jhar26

emiellucifuge said:


> Indeed i very much doubt USA will get further than Holland, but if that should happen then they are my choice!


I will support our Dutch friends. Hup Holland Hup, laat de leeuw niet in zijn hempie staan!


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## sospiro

We are running a sweep at work. I have drawn Cameroon & Uruguay.


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## emiellucifuge

jhar26 said:


> I will support our Dutch friends. Hup Holland Hup, laat de leeuw niet in zijn hempie staan!


Hooray!
Where are you from if I may ask?


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## jhar26

emiellucifuge said:


> Hooray!
> Where are you from if I may ask?


Belgium.


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## emiellucifuge

Ah makes sense now!


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## jurianbai

Tonight / day 1 prediction:

S Africa vs Mexico 2-2
Uruguay vs France 0-2


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## Argus

jurianbai said:


> Tonight / day 1 prediction:
> 
> S Africa vs Mexico 2-2
> Uruguay vs France 0-2


I'll go for Mexico to beat S Africa and France to just nick it off Uruguay by one goal.


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## Chris

This Obama versus BP thing is giving an added edge to tomorrow's England against USA match


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## emiellucifuge

Chris said:


> This Obama versus BP thing is giving an added edge to tomorrow's England against USA match


In both cases I support the USA.

Im appalled by how BP has handled the whole thing. They released a plan at the Bonn conference which mentioned scientists who have been dead for 5 years, and included recovery plans for species found nowhere near the Gulf.


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## jhar26

S Africa vs Mexico 1-2
Uruguay vs France 1-0


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## TresPicos

Only minutes away now... 

My prediction: 

South Africa vs Mexico 2-3
Uruguay vs France 2-0

And one month from now, I think we will see Spain and England in the final.


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## Argus

Decent game and a fair result. Good finish from Tshabalalalalalalalalalala and I thought S Africa had nicked it at the end when they hit the post. That was an important game for both teams to win as they've got much harder opponents in Uruguay and France coming up.



> And one month from now, I think we will see Spain and England in the final.


I hope so but can't see England getting that far.


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## andruini

Oh man... Tshabalala's goal was off the hook, and Khune, the goalie, was great.. Mexico played good football but I don't see us getting far.. We were beat in speed one too many times, and that will really hurt when we face up against the big ones.. Oh yeah, and that last attempt from SA should've been a goal..


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## sospiro

I am spoiled for choice. I can either watch Uruguay v France on TV, watch on line with a choice of two commentaries or listen on the radio. No doubt there will be lots of people who don't approve of licence payers' money being spent on this but I think it's great. The BBC are really doing us proud.


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## Edward Elgar

My humble prediction for tomorrows game:

England - 10
USA - 0

Oh yeah!


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## SatiesFaction

Although I'm from France, I'll be supporting Spain and their splendid style as soon as the French are out, which shouldn't take long


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## jurianbai

Mexico not so lucky and S Africa has great goalkeeper. I slept allnight and didn't watch Uruguay -France, and not so dissapointed with that.

England - USA >> Englaaaaand


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## Argus

My predictions for today are South Korea to beat Greece, Argentina to beat Nigeria, and the biggie, England to beat USA.

I do hope Nigeria beat Argentina as we need them out of the competition as soon as possible are they are a real threat. Or they at least give Messi a bit of a seeing over.


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## jurianbai

Argentina vs Nigeria looks real good show. 1-0 as the moment.

Korea deserved it, Greece play weak, only warm up in the last part of second half.


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## Argus

jurianbai said:


> Argentina vs Nigeria looks real good show. 1-0 as the moment.
> 
> Korea deserved it, Greece play weak, only warm up in the last part of second half.


I thought the Argentina-Nigeria game deserved more goals. Both teams had some good chances and there were some good saves from the Nigerian keeper but the best team definitely won. Messi looked excellent as always but they didn't look as dangerous as I would've thought.

I am ready for the England game now though. Hopefully Heskey doesn't spend half the match on his backside or better yet Capello decides to play Rooney on his own up front and have an attacking midfielder playing just off the front.


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## jhar26

Argus said:


> I thought the Argentina-Nigeria game deserved more goals. Both teams had some good chances and there were some good saves from the Nigerian keeper but the best team definitely won. Messi looked excellent as always but they didn't look as dangerous as I would've thought.


Well, they didn't need to because they were already ahead after a few minutes. If it had been the other way round Argentina would probably have stepped on the gas a bit more.


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## Argus

jhar26 said:


> Well, they didn't need to because they were already ahead after a few minutes. If it had been the other way round Argentina would probably have stepped on the gas a bit more.


True, but a one goal lead can be quickly eroded. I would've thought they'd have pushed for the two goals a bit more before trying to put the game to bed. But I don't think they took their foot of the gas, it's just that both teams squandered their chances.

It might just be they are a team that the whole is less than the sum of the parts. Remember they only scraped through qualifying in the last game.

Anyway, what do you think about the England-USA game. Our team doesn't look as good as a lot of the media seem to make it out to be but they should top the group if they play to their potential.


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## andruini

England was looking good today, there was just that stupid blunder that no one is ever allowed to mention again .. But apart from that, I thought their low and midfield game looked really strong and it should be no problem for them to top the group..


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## emiellucifuge

BLLUUUUUNDER!

And I dont think its fair to blame the whole thing on Green, the entire team was not exactly top-notch.

USA really surprised me, they have an excellent squad. 

Today:
Algeria-Slovenia
and 2 others?


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## jhar26

I didn't have the opportunity to see the England - USA game. I've learned since that mr.Green has come up with the funniest moment so far.  I don't think it will matter much though. England should easily get through.


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## Argus

Bloody English goalkeepers. That was very similar to the one Carson let in against Croatia to prevent us qualifying for Euro 2008. They need to remember to get their bodies behind their hands. However, England were easily the better team throughout and had the lion's share of the chances but we still looked a little lacklustre up front. Anyway, a draws not too bad as we should get enough points out of the remaining games.

Todays predictions are a bit harder but I'm going to go for the European triple victory even though I think Ghana have got a good chance against Serbia.


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## andruini

Poor Aussies, that was brutal.... 
I'm not proud of the Mexican ref.. He's a bit card-happy, and he shouldn't have sent off Cahill..
Good for Ghana, though!


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## Krumcito

Brasil is the win


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## sospiro

Buy a vuvuzela.

Check out the reviews _... I'd love to see the face of our elitist golfers when they tee off and a chorus of vuvuzalas rings out!_


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## Argus

Yeah, the ref in the Ger-Aus game was a bit card happy and Cahill shouldn't have even got a yellow for that challenge, never mind a straight red. But Germany totally outplayed them even with 11-11. The Aussie offside trap was crap and Lahm and Muller looked excellent. We'll see what happens when they face a proper team however.

The other two games were refereed very well. The two handball decisions were correct and the sending offs justified.

And two goalkeeping mistakes in two consecutive games (Algeria and England keepers). What's going on. I know this new adidas ball is meant to be the roundest ever and move in the air more than others but the two goals were shocking.

Predictions for today are Holland to just edge Denmark, Japan to beat Cameroon and Italy to beat Paraguay. However, Cameroon will be more accustomed to the heat and climate so will probably have the legs over Japan if it's close near the end.


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## jhar26

Argus said:


> However, Cameroon will be more accustomed to the heat and climate so will probably have the legs over Japan if it's close near the end.


Heat is not a factor. It's cooler than in Europe at this time of the year.


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## Argus

Both games so far today have been decidedly unspectactular. Holland looked flat and fortunately for them Denmark were just that bit flatter, plus an own goal didn't help. I was impressed with Elia on the left but thought Sneijder and van der Vaart were quiet. They might look better with Robben back. Cameroon were pretty abysmal and I don't understand why their coach decided to play Eto'o on the wing.

Hopefully, the Italy game will be a bit livelier.


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## emiellucifuge

I think all the teams are a bit fragile during their first matches.

Did you enjoy v.d. Vaarts little heel flick?


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## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> I think all the teams are a bit fragile during their first matches.
> 
> Did you enjoy v.d. Vaarts little heel flick?


Yeah. Decent save from Sorensen. That was about the best thing Vaart did in the match. Holland should now go on and come top of the group but the other teams seem pretty evenly matched.

The first matches are definitely very cagey and I think teams are more concerned with not losing than performing well.


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## andruini

Weird games today.. Holland was not as strong as expected, v.Persie and v.d.Vaart were missing like their life depended on it.. They're still on of the stronger teams so far, though..
I half expected Cameroon to be the stronger African team, but they were really weak and unorganized.. My hopes are on Ivory Coast now.. Japan surprised me with a very tough defense and some very fast players in the mid-field, I'll be keeping my eye on them..
Italy was horrible.. Very dirty football in that match, and if they had spent as much time trying to score goals as they did arguing with the refs, they could've easily beat Paraguay..

We'll have to see how other favorites like Brazil and Spain do these next couple of days, but so far I think Germany has played the strongest football in the tournament.. Let's see how it goes...


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## Argus

andruini said:


> Italy was horrible.. Very dirty football in that match, and if they had spent as much time trying to score goals as they did arguing with the refs, they could've easily beat Paraguay..
> 
> We'll have to see how other favorites like Brazil and Spain do these next couple of days, but so far I think Germany has played the strongest football in the tournament.. Let's see how it goes...


I think Italy looked a lot better in the second half after the substitutions and when they switched to 4-4-2 but a draw was a fair result.

I am looking forward to seeing Brazil but beating N. Korea isn't going to give anyone a good signal of how good the team is, unless they win by at least 8 goals.

Predictions for today are Slovakia to beat New Zealand, Brazil to hammer North Korea and in the more evenly matched game I think Cote d'Ivoire will just sneak it over Portugal.


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## joen_cph

Perhaps North Korea should not be underestimated and they might not let many goals in, concentrating on defense. There´s an uncanny lot at stake for these players, and probably for their families too. The dictatorial regime hasn´t necessarily deprived them of the ability to think football-wise, though the North Korean League must be a surreal place to be indeed ...


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## jurianbai

good play by New Zealand, and this is the fourth own goal so far? many complaint about the new ball for this. now I would love to pick North Korea, they are at 1:15 . a blink by brazil is enough to get riiiccchhh.......


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## emiellucifuge

JoenCPH

I do not believe this is true, many years ago the team reached the quarter finals and returned as heroes. There is a documentary too!


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## joen_cph

> JoenCPH
> 
> I do not believe this is true


We seem to think the same - or I´m not totally sure I am getting the meaning of the remark ?!

The North Korean players are no doubt a part of the privileged elite of the country, but that doesn´t mean that they are not under the pressure of the regime and the mind-set of the society and the culture there. Three of their players are professionals abroad, though.

Apparently, according to Danish media, live-TV from the game is not sent to the North Korean People in order to be able to manipulate it afterwards, to avoid any mistakes and under the strict orders of presenting the North Korean team as positive as possible. Now there are rumours that illegal South Korean TV-channels will transmit the game anyway for them; the question of the country being too poor to be able to transmit it or a possible South Korean ban of a free transmission seems to be of lesser importance now. North Korea apparently preferred to sponsor 1000 _Chinese_ spectators in South Africa as supporters, to avoid any "mistakes" or refugees.


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## emiellucifuge

Ah sorry i misinterpreted your post as too say that they would possibly be punished or killed if returning unsuccesful.


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## Argus

I expect North Korea to be somewhat organised and hard working but I can't see any flair or talent in their team. I expect them to be entrenched in their half for much of the game with lots of last ditch defending. However, as can be seen from the other games it often takes a while for the big teams to get into a rhythm, so N. Korea have to got to hope Brazil have a serious off day and Korea may only lose by 1 or 2. Still, I hope Brazil have a good day to kick start this sluggish World Cup.

That Ivory Coast-Portugal game was awful. In fact the only game that's been half decent was the Germany game and that was men vs boys. I know the first games are never the best but these have been exceptionally poor quality.


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## joen_cph

> Ah sorry i misinterpreted your post as too say that they would possibly be punished or killed if returning unsuccesful.


As regards Women´s Handball only a few years ago, the _South Korean _team was actually granted a life´s wages if they did win international championships, and there are persistent rumours that they were beaten physically by their coach.
Back in the 60s, the North Korean Society was more optimistic than now, their standard of living approaching that of South Korea, but things have hardened a lot since.
A Danish documentary about the situation there has recently won film prizes abroad, "The Red Chapel".
The producers went to the country pretending to be a communist group of actors and thus gained access to the propaganda apparatus there, disclosing its way of thinking.


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## andruini

Argus said:


> That Ivory Coast-Portugal game was awful. In fact the only game that's been half decent was the Germany game and that was men vs boys. I know the first games are never the best but these have been exceptionally poor quality.


I agree.. Boring game after boring game.. Let's hope everyone gets into rhythm soon..


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## Argus

Brazil were underwhelming and North Korea did well to get men behind the ball and crowd out the Brazilians in the centre of defence. A decent game but it's the kind of scoreline I didn't want. Either Korea stealing it from Brazil or a goalfest the other way would have been better. And Maicon definitely meant that ball to be a cross and he mis-hit it.

I wonder how many times that goal will be shown in N Korea.



> I agree.. Boring game after boring game.. Let's hope everyone gets into rhythm soon


Hopefully when teams have got to win games or they're out of the competition the urgency of the teams will pick up and the games will be more interesting.


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## Argus

Today it's Spains turn to disappoint the spectators and play well below themselves.

I'm going to go for Chile to beat Honduras, Spain to beat the Swiss and Uruguay to beat South Africa. Although the main thing is to see some better play and some more goals.


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## andruini

Argus said:


> Today it's Spains turn to disappoint the spectators and play well below themselves.


You know, I thought this would happen, but it was still a huge shock..
Puyol and Piqué were AWFUL, and I've never seen Villa and Silva miss so much..
Good for the Swiss, they were doing a great job turning away the attacks.. Let's see what happens in this group, because going by what we saw today, Spain could very well be out of the tournament very soon..


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## Argus

andruini said:


> You know, I thought this would happen, but it was still a huge shock..
> Puyol and Piqué were AWFUL, and I've never seen Villa and Silva miss so much..
> Good for the Swiss, they were doing a great job turning away the attacks.. Let's see what happens in this group, because going by what we saw today, Spain could very well be out of the tournament very soon..


I don't think Spain were absolutely dreadful but they did seem to run out of attacking ideas near the end of the game. Torres too looked out of form. The Swiss defence did very well and managed to stay strong even after long spells of Spanish pressure. It reminded me of the Champions League final where one team has the majority of the possession and attacks whilst the other sits back and allows the opposition to come forward so they can steal it and mount a counter-attack. Xavi Alonso was unlucky with his shot against the bar though.

Well, at least it was enjoyable for the neutral spectator.

I think Spain should still qualify but I was impressed by Chile against Honduras, in particular their forward Sanchez. If Chile can somehow beat Spain then this World Cup is anyones to win.


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## jurianbai

should have predicted this! there should be 1 surprise in WC tradition. Spain are the last favorite and so far all favorites get away with a draw. blame it to Italy,France, Portugal and England. ;P


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## emiellucifuge

Just one short comment:

Not sure if youre commentators relayed the same info, but here in Holland we were told that the North Korea fans in the stadium were actually chinese actors who had been hired.


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## andruini

I heard that as well... That's crazy...
I have to say, I'm suddenly a bit scared of Uruguay, as a Mexican..
Khune should've not been sent off, but that penalty was a clear call..
Let's see how we match up against France tomorrow.. But it's starting to look grim..


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## Argus

Why didn't Forlan play like that when he was at United? He was excellent today and made everything look easy. Saurez also looked very good. Uruguay pretty much dominated the game and if they can keep playing like that they look good for the quarters at least.

Looks like it's going to be the first time ever a host nation has gone out in the group stages.


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## jurianbai

last time I heard North Korea people had close to zero percentage for being able to travel abroad. so maybe true, if those are N. Korean, they will never go back home. but after the Brazil match I think more fans will 'turn' into N. Korea fans on their match.

Uruguay can held France while S.Africa only draw Mexico, 0-3 result should be no surprise.


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## jhar26

S.Africa - Uruguay is the only match I saw today. S.Africa are very, very mediocre in my opinion. S.Africa and Greece are clearly out of their league.


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## Argus

Yesterdays games had a higher standard of football, which I hope continues to rise for the rest of the tournament.

Today I reckon Argentina will beat South Korea but it should be a close game, Nigeria will beat Greece and France will beat Mexico. Although France have been very poor recently and are only in the WC thanks to a handball. But looking at the team sheets, France have got a lot of big players; Henry, Anelka, Ribery, Malouda are all top class yet they looked bad against Uruguay. However, if Mexico learn from Switzerland's performance yesterday and not try to play France at their own game, then they might pull off the surprise of the day.


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## emiellucifuge

Im not too worried about the quality of the football so far.

Im confident that the teams are just getting more confident in the new climate and that we will still see many amazing matches as always.


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## Argus

Well two good games so far today.

Argentina looked great at times but South Korea had moments in the game where they played some very nice flowing football. And Greece were very lucky against Nigeria. That moment of madness from Kaita totally changed the game and then a lucky deflection and some more poor goalkeeping allowed Greece to win a game they looked second best in until the sending off. I think South Korea should be the other team to progress from that group unless Argentina play a really weak team against Greece and play a lackadaisical game.


----------



## Argus

Man, France were really terrible. It looked liked they just couldn't be ***** with this World Cup at all. Everything they did in that game was complacent and lazy. I think Domenech has got to be held accountable for a lot Frances defeat. He brought off Anelka and brought on Gignac and Vulbuena, who both did absolutely nothing for the rest of the game, when the likes of Henry and Cisse were on the bench. But credit to Mexico. They got their tactics spot on and really deserved the victory.

Now I wonder whether Uruguay and Mexico will 'arrange' a draw in the final game, which will see them both go through for sure.


----------



## jurianbai

I feel sorry for France, quite sad really.


----------



## jhar26

Argus said:


> Now I wonder whether Uruguay and Mexico will 'arrange' a draw in the final game, which will see them both go through for sure.


Yes, but the winner of the group will avoid Argentina in the next round and play against South Korea or Greece instead. Enough reason to try to win the match in my opinion.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

jurianbai said:


> I feel sorry for France, quite sad really.


I don't. I opened a bottle of champagne!


----------



## andruini

Viva Mexico!!!
What a match! I never thought I could see Mexico play like a top level team.. Well deserved, it looks good for us, though if we go through 2nd place it's probably Argentina in the Round of 16 and I won't hold my breath with that one... Then again, I didn't expect Mexico to beat France today.. So yeah!!!


----------



## Argus

Predictions for today are Germany to draw with Serbia, US to beat Slovenia and the one that matters, England to beat Algeria.

After seeing how poor Algeria played against Slovenia, if England fail to get the three points out of the game they really don't deserve to progress in this tournament. I'm hoping Capello decides to play James in net like he should have in the first game, bench Heskey and start either Crouch or Defoe and give Carrick or Barry (if he's fit) a run out. I know it's a cliche but Lampard and Gerrard really don't play well together.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Why Germany drawing with Serbia? Out of all the favorites theyve played the best so far, I think theyll win all out.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Why Germany drawing with Serbia? Out of all the favorites theyve played the best so far, I think theyll win all out.


Well they didn't even end up with a draw, mainly thanks to some dodgy refereeing. I don't think Klose should have been sent off for those challenges and the ref was handing out yellows like old men hand out Werther's Originals. But Serbia looked awful in the second half considering they had an extra man. Podolski had plenty of chances, including a unnecessary penalty gifted by Vidic, to salvage a point out of the game. Before the sending off it was looking like a 0-0 to me. But as an Englishman, seeing Germany get beat is always a nice treat.

I think that first game of theirs was a matter of Australia being **** poor rather than Germany being that great.

If England manage to get out of the group, Serbia look like the easiest opposition, unless Australia can somehow scrape through. Now with Serbia only having to play the Aussies, it looks like Germany and Serbia will go through but Ghana might have got a chance of knocking the Germans out early. All in all, Group B is setting itself up nice for the last matches, especially if Ghana lose tomorrow.


----------



## TresPicos

andruini said:


> Viva Mexico!!!
> What a match! I never thought I could see Mexico play like a top level team.. Well deserved, it looks good for us, though if we go through 2nd place it's probably Argentina in the Round of 16 and I won't hold my breath with that one... Then again, I didn't expect Mexico to beat France today.. So yeah!!!


"Yeah" is a good summary of the game. 

I hope Mexico will be rewarded for their passionate way of playing.



Argus said:


> Now I wonder whether Uruguay and Mexico will 'arrange' a draw in the final game, which will see them both go through for sure.


I don't think Mexico will be satisfied with ending up 2nd in the group and having to face Argentina.


----------



## Argus

America wuz robbed. There was nothing wrong with Edu's goal. Another case of a wrong refereeing decision deciding the game. It must only be a matter of time before video technology comes into the game.

What a good match though. Slovenia looked solid in the first half but America did great to come back in the second half and really deserved to win in the end.

Roll on England.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Yes I ought to take back my comment about Germany 

Quite dissapointing USAs result and not too fair either.


----------



## andruini

Wow! England was dreadful!!! Absolutely no midfield.. Gerrard and Lennon were hopeless, and Rooney and Heskey were awful.. Wright-Phillips in the second half? Absolutely useless...
If all the players had played the way Ashley Cole did, a much different result it would be...


----------



## emiellucifuge

England are absolutely awful.
Im not sure if they will make it to the next round


----------



## Jules141

Shocking display from England. That buzzing sound wasn't Vuvuselas it was the grass snoring.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Haha good one!


----------



## jurianbai

It's Friday nite and I went for a beer-themed party + World Cup screening in a city's major site. Incidentally I weared a red polo shirt. They had enough ang moh ('red hair'=western) in Germany uniform to be a significant majority crowd, they speak Germany so maybe an original fans. 

Like many others, I jump in high when Serbia goaled. Problem is the other fellows who jump quickly out of vision because they are also in Germany suite and a second after, I am the only red dot there with a happy face. After the penalty failed I really pray that Germany can equalize.....


----------



## Argus

England seem to be in competition with France for playing the most boring, uninspired football from any big team. Lampard, Rooney and Gerrard are the star players for their clubs yet for the national team they look useless, inept and plain bone idle. I think the substitutions were particularly uninspired and didn't have any impact whatsoever, but I don't think Capello is to blame for that performance. Those 11 players that started were good enough to beat 90% of the teams in the world, yet they couldn't even make one clear cut goalscoring chance against Algeria. They may as well get knocked out against Slovenia as they have no chance against a proper team like Germany.

Not only that but after watching two great games earlier in the day, having to watch 90 minutes of that swill just got my blood boiling.

Anyway, lets look forward to the games today. I'll go for Holland to beat Japan, Ghana to beat Australia and Cameroon to beat Denmark. I think the possible upset for today is Japan getting something out of their game against the Dutch.


----------



## TresPicos

TresPicos said:


> And one month from now, I think we will see Spain and England in the final.


Man, do I feel stupid now?!


----------



## Argus

TresPicos said:


> Man, do I feel stupid now?!


You gave those teams the kiss of death. If England and Spain get knocked out in the group stage, I lay the blame squarely at your feet.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Let's see how my 'rooting interests' are doing so far:

1) USA- need to beat Algeria to be assured of advancing... 
but if unable to beat Algeria, do not deserve to advance--

2) England- see above- just substitute 'Slovenia' for 'Algeria.'

3) Germany- what can I make of _them_? Hopefully, last match was a blip. 
World Cup is no format to be inconsistent.

4) Denmark- no shame in falling short to the Dutch in the 'Frisian Darby.' )) 
And since I picked Orange pre-tournament to be a semi-finalist, not too upset.

I kind of hope that Uruguay can turn into the little country that could...


----------



## andruini

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I kind of hope that Uruguay can turn into the little country that could...


I would actually like that, but I'm hoping Mexico can deliver on that one.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Holland and Argentina only favourites to win 2 matches


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Holland and Argentina only favourites to win 2 matches


Difference being that Holland looked poor and scraped their two wins, whilst Argentina never looked like anything other than victors in their games.

Ghana were also poor today. Unable to score from open play against a 10 man Oz is far from good. But Harry Kewell, what a fewell. To be fair, Australia looked a lot better than the Germany game and could have easily won today if luck had been on their side.

The African teams as a whole have not lived up to expectations but I still think Cote d'Ivoire should get out of their group as Portugal seem to be heavily reliant on Ronaldo playing well.



> I kind of hope that Uruguay can turn into the little country that could...


A little country that's won the World Cup once more than us.

The little country that could might be Slovenia. They've got a population equivalent to a medium sized city over here and yet they've found 23 players that could hold a nation over 1000% times more populous to a draw.


----------



## Argus

Cameroon were very unlucky to become the first team knocked out as I think they have played better than teams like Greece and Serbia who somehow have got a chance to progress. Two moments of ingenuity involving Rommedahl won the game for Denmark.
That was actually one of the better games in this tournament despite some of the defensive blunders.

The African teams are doing suprisingly badly. They have the skilled players with pace and technique up front but seem to lack the organisation and discipline in defence like the European teams.

My predictions were a bit off yesterday and todays games look like close calls. I'll go for Paraguay to beat Slovakia, Italy to beat New Zealand and this next one is difficult to call, I'll play it safe and go for Brazil even though I think Cote d'Ivoire will up their game and cause Brazil real problems.


----------



## sospiro

Was listening to Radio Five Live commentary on Italy v New Zealand. The summariser (think it was Robbie Savage) was so funny. He said he hated being a summariser as he had to be neutral then kept yelling 'come on New Zealand!!!' After the game the radio team desperately wanted to interview someone, anyone from NZ & interviewed the NZ radio team who were in tears & had lost their voices.


----------



## altiste

*Nz*

Well after NZ's rather remarkable result against Italy I plucked the following text from the NZ Herald website:

_"New Zealand reportedly has just 25 professional footballers - against Italy's 3541. Amateur players have been included in New Zealand's World Cup squad"_

What's going on here? Today I've got to record two Italian musicians - not sure if they are following the World Cup though....


----------



## Argus

altiste said:


> Well after NZ's rather remarkable result against Italy I plucked the following text from the NZ Herald website:
> 
> _"New Zealand reportedly has just 25 professional footballers - against Italy's 3541. Amateur players have been included in New Zealand's World Cup squad"_
> 
> What's going on here? Today I've got to record two Italian musicians - not sure if they are following the World Cup though....


I think one of the subs they brought on against Italy was a part-timer and made his living as a banker. Not surprising that they have so few professional footballers when they don't even have a professional league and their sole professional club play in Australia. It's interesting looking at some of the players former clubs. Most of them play at a level akin to the second or third tier in the English league system.

Looks like North Korea couldn't keep it up after their wonderful performance against Brazil. A 7-0 thrashing from Portugal better represents their actual level but at least they have shown more spirit than England and France.

Speaking of France, what a shambles they are in. Players refusing to train, Anelka getting sent home, team director resigning, bust ups between players and coaching staff. Total implosion in this World Cup for them.

And the refereeing is getting worse. Fabiano double hand ball on his second goal, Kaka sent off for nothing, New Zealand's goal was offside, De Rossi dived.


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> Speaking of France, what a shambles they are in. Players refusing to train, Anelka getting sent home, team director resigning, bust ups between players and coaching staff. Total implosion in this World Cup for them.


Yes, good fun there. 


> And the refereeing is getting worse. *Fabiano double hand ball on his second goal*, Kaka sent off for nothing, New Zealand's goal was offside, De Rossi dived.


Watch out, Maradona, there's a new guy in town - Luis "Hands of God" Fabiano. 

I know FIFA was experimenting with two additional assistant referees behind each goal in... Champions League, was it? That's a start, I guess. Or maybe they should have a whole third team of 11 referees running around on the pitch.


----------



## Argus

Laurent Blanc looks like he's got a difficult job on his hands getting that France team in a state to qualify for Euro 2012. The best thing about France is that they make Englands situation seem positively brilliant by comparison.

It looks like Mexico will get Argentina in the last 16 which should make for an interesting match and I expect South Korea to come runners up in their group and have a tough game against Uruguay.


----------



## Argus

After England's performances so far, all I can say is come on Ghana. If Germany come top of their group they will hammer us in the next round. We look like we might have a slight chance against Serbia or Ghana but even if we somehow get into the quarter's we'll most likely face Argentina, who look the best team in the tournament by some way.


----------



## TresPicos

The way that some major European teams have played so far, the first play-off round might become quite uneven. If Italy and Spain end up 2nd in their groups, we might have two difficult "paths" to the semifinals...


Netherlands-Italy / Brazil-Spain
Argentina-Mexico / Germany-England
... and two easier ones:


Uruguay-South Korea / USA-Ghana
Paraguay-Denmark / Portugal-Chile
We might just end up with Brazil vs Uruguay and Argentina vs Paraguay in the semi-finals.


----------



## Argus

TresPicos said:


> The way that some major European teams have played so far, the first play-off round might become quite uneven. If Italy and Spain end up 2nd in their groups, we might have two difficult "paths" to the semifinals...
> 
> 
> Netherlands-Italy / Brazil-Spain
> Argentina-Mexico / Germany-England
> ... and two easier ones:
> 
> 
> Uruguay-South Korea / USA-Ghana
> Paraguay-Denmark / Portugal-Chile
> We might just end up with Brazil vs Uruguay and Argentina vs Paraguay in the semi-finals.


Yeah, it looks like Ghana have got the better end of the stick by losing to Germany. England really should have pushed for that second goal against Slovakia so they didn't end up in the difficult situation they are in now.

I expect Italy to come second in their group but I've got a feeling that Spain will finish top of theirs on goal difference by beating Chile by more goals than Switzerland beat Honduras. WHich would set up both an Iberian derby and a South American derby in the last 16. That's also assuming Brazil beat Portugal. ALso Japan might do Denmark. It all get's very confusing in the last group game. At points even teams like Australia and Nigeria who looked well out of it before the match have real possibilities of getting through.

It's looking good for the South Americans, however, the Europeans should buck up in the knockout stages. I'm already bracing myself for penalties in our game against Germany.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

USA finish atop their group!

(In spite of being the universal socket for the officiating crews.)

The morning brought the "nightmare-scenario" that in the event of (to use the most plausible possibility) an England-Slovenia 2-2 tie, and a USA-Algeria 0-0 tie, the US & England would have _drawn lots_ to determine who advanced!

Perhaps now that FIFA has averted going over that precipice (for now), they can do a
better job of determining who advances in case something like this actually ever happens!


----------



## TresPicos

Chi_townPhilly said:


> USA finish atop their group!
> 
> (In spite of being the universal socket for the officiating crews.)
> 
> The morning brought the "nightmare-scenario" that in the event of (to use the most plausible possibility) an England-Slovenia 2-2 tie, and a USA-Algeria 0-0 tie, the US & England would have _drawn lots_ to determine who advanced!
> 
> Perhaps now that FIFA has averted going over that precipice (for now), they can do a
> better job of determining who advances in case something like this actually ever happens!


Yes, even counting the number of warnings/expulsions or the result in the qualifying games would be better than drawing lots. And perhaps an "improvised" penalty shootout in some empty stadium the next day would be even better.

Congratulations to the USA team, by the way. They really deserved to advance. They played well and they showed more fighting spirit than most other teams, especially after all those goals denied by the refs.


----------



## nwilliams

There is a great craze of the Fifa football 2010 World cup and it is going great. Italy have been dangerously entered in the final group against the Slovakia. All the players are very well playing, they are just awesome.


----------



## Argus

Well another European giant has been felled. Italy's performance at this WC must join that of France's 2002 team as one of the worst ever for a defending champion.

The game itself was excellent. Incidents galore in the last half an hour and I think the ref/linesman got them all pretty much spot on apart from the offside decision which was too close to call. But Slovakaia upped their game immensely from that lacklustre performance against Paraguay to the lively and pushing team I watched today. It was a matter of too little too late for Lippi. Bringing on Pirlo and Quagliarella, who scored the best goal of the tournament so far, did make a difference but playing mediocre football for two and a half games was always leading to an early exit.

Japan-Denmark should make for an interesting game later with the winner looking at a reasonable tie against Paraguay, unless Holland slip up badly.

Spain-Chile and Portugal-Brazil also look like exceedingly tasty final matches tomorrow.


----------



## jurianbai

Italy going home. suck.
Japan go in, mean three teams from Asia + Oceania, SE Korea and Australia.

then Ghana,Uruguay,SE Korea and US are in same tree, mean one of these four underdogs team will be in semifinal. Germany, England, Argentina and mexico in the same tree, what a waste with 3 favorite eliminating each other.


----------



## jhar26

There can't be any doubt that the best team won, but todays Germany vs England game was the perfect illustration of one aspect of why I've never been much of a soccer fan, even though I always try to see as many of the world cup games as I can. 22 players out there, but the most influential person on the pitch is some guy with a whistle. In other sports like basketball or tennis the umpire can also mess up but since these are high scoring games the occasional mistake is less likely to be the deciding factor for the end result of the game. Maybe the most annoying thing about it is that the technology to avoid this sort of thing is available but that they refuse to use it. Why? Explanation of Blatter: "Fans like to discuss the referee's desicions." Is he for real?  Yeah, I guess that if the opportunity for some drunks in a bar to blabber about the refree's desicions is more important to you than a correct outcome of the matches it's best to ignore modern technology. The other excuse they come up with is that it would slow down the game too much. Nonsense! Does hawkeye slow down tennis? I don't think so. Besides, if they are really worried about that they would better do something about teams taking an eternity to put the ball back into play once the're in front. Adding one or three minutes to a 90 minute game doesn't cut it. Instead of playing 2 x 45 minutes they would do better to play 2 x 30 minutes and stop the clock each time the ball isn't into play like they do in basketball or American Football. It's the only way to get it right. Adding one, two or three minutes is just random.


----------



## Argus

Argus said:


> After England's performances so far, all I can say is come on Ghana. If Germany come top of their group they will hammer us in the next round.


Well, at least I called it right.

That was the worst defensive performance I can remember from an England side. Terry and Upson had the positioning skills and spatial awareness of kittens. Oezil and Klose absolutely ripped our back four to shreds on every attack. Our midfield was so slack and Rooney may as well have got his pipe and slippers on for all he did. Gerrard wasn't dreadful but he shouldn't be playing on the left in the first place.

Every time the Germans came forward they looked likely to score. Oezil, Schweinstiger, Podolski, Muller all waltzed through our defence with ease. The only player who performed to anywhere near his ability was James and even he was at slight fault on the first Muller goal.

There is the matter of Lampard's unbelievably obvious goal that was inexplicably missed by the Uruguayan Mr Magoo and Stevie Wonder. I hope Blatter comes under some serious pressure to bring video technology/video referees into the game, especially at the top of the game. Cricket, Tennis, Rugby all use replays to help on big decisions. Why doesn't the most popular sport in the world do the same.

I hope the FA don't have a knee jerk reaction and sack Capello as he really is a quality manager, it's the players that need to be looked at. Today was an example of quality players who can't play together as a team versus mediocre players who click together well.

But all that aside, Germany really were the better side on the day and I hope they get their arses handed to them by Maradona's lot.


----------



## Argus

jhar26 said:


> Besides, if they are really worried about that they would better do something about teams taking an eternity to put the ball back into play once the're in front. Adding one or three minutes to a 90 minute game doesn't cut it. Instead of playing 2 x 45 minutes they would do better to play 2 x 30 minutes and stop the clock each time the ball isn't into play like they do in basketball or American Football. It's the only way to get it right. Adding one, two or three minutes is just random.


But that would rule out the possibility of Fergie time.










And trying to make the game more like basketball or American football would surely be a bad thing.

Another one of the main reasons FIFA gives for not using video replays is that it would be unfair on the lower league matches that can't afford to have cameras installed. Which is just plain stupid as the outcome of matches that couldn't feasibly utilise video technology is not going to affect as many fans as the outcome of a game in the World Cup/Champions League etc where millions of fans are watching and bothered about a fair result. Maybe a few hundred people care if a team like Canvey Island was disallowed a clear goal against Dartford in the Isthmian League, whereas millions care when a wrong decision in the World Cup is made.


----------



## jhar26

Argus said:


> Another one of the main reasons FIFA gives for not using video replays is that it would be unfair on the lower league matches that can't afford to have cameras installed.


What a joke. Maybe it would be a good idea to ban players like Messi, Ronaldinho or Rooney as well since teams from the lower divisions can't afford to have them either.


----------



## jameswhite428

its so sady that US lost yesterday now i shifted towards ENg now they also lost..Depressed


----------



## sospiro

I'm now supporting Uruguay as it's my team in the office sweep. I've already won *£1* for my team coming top of the Group.


----------



## emiellucifuge

USA are out though they fought to the end.
Germany - England was a great drama.
Mexicos current undeserved situation is also a direct consequence of Blatter's retardation.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> USA are out though they fought to the end.
> Germany - England was a great drama.
> Mexicos current undeserved situation is also a direct consequence of Blatter's retardation.


Mexico should feel highly aggrieved. That is an unbelievably blatant offside. The goalkeeper was even further up the field than Tevez never mind the defenders. The players and fans even saw the replays on the big screen and everyone knew it was a terrible decision. It would take no more time to review the goal than it would to get the hard done players to stop nagging the ref and linesman.

I think Argentina were slightly the better team but that decision changed the whole dynamic of the game. Before that Mexico had hit the bar and had a few good chances but afterwards they looked shocked and just not with it, as evidenced by the second goal.

I think FIFA should adopt a similar rule to tennis where managers are allowed 3 calls or flags during the game where they can question a referees decision and if they are proven right, they are awarded that call/flag back and if they are wrong they lose a call/flag and decision remains. It's just common sense that if the technology is readily available, use it.

No two football games have ever annoyed me more than the two today.

On the bright side, Argentina-Germany should be a cracking game.


----------



## jhar26

Argus said:


> On the bright side, Argentina-Germany should be a cracking game.


I wonder what the referee will decide in terms of who is going to win.


----------



## andruini

Agreed with everything that's been said.. It's just outrageous...
I hope Ghana can make something of it, I'd really like to see them get to a good spot, after the way they played yesterday.


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> I think FIFA should adopt a similar rule to tennis where managers are allowed 3 calls or flags during the game where they can question a referees decision and if they are proven right, they are awarded that call/flag back and if they are wrong they lose a call/flag and decision remains. It's just common sense that if the technology is readily available, use it.
> 
> No two football games have ever annoyed me more than the two today.


Amen to that.


----------



## Vaneyes

Fortunately, the refs live to make more bad calls.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Holland sacrificed their traditional flair for a greater control on the game!


----------



## Art Rock

Fine with me if this continues another 3 games.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Holland sacrificed their traditional flair for a greater control on the game!


Holland have exchanged their traditional entertaining style of play for a very efficient if boring one that seems to get the job done. It's better for Dutch fans but not great for the neutral. Brazil or Chile will test your mettle in the next round. Oh and defenders need to learn to not allow Robben a sight of goal on his left foot or they will be punished. The key to beating Holland looks to pressure their midfield and not allow the front men to get a hold of the ball.


----------



## sospiro

The one I'm really looking forward to is Germany v Argentina.


----------



## Argus

sospiro said:


> The one I'm really looking forward to is Germany v Argentina.


Spain-Portugal later tonight should be good too.

Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and now Paraguay all through to the quarters. If they all win their next games then there could be an all South American semis. I just hope Ghana can beat Uruguay because it would be good for the tournament to have an African team in the later rounds and Uruguay play very negative football when they are in the lead.


----------



## andruini

Ghana were incredible today, I really felt for them.. I have not seen such quality drama since JR was shot! Easily the best game of the tournament.
Brazil out was a real surprise, but I'm glad Holland did it.. They're my favorites now to go on and win the thing..


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

Chi_townPhilly said:


> ...since I picked Orange pre-tournament to be a semi-finalist, not too upset.


Yes! (wocka-wocka-wocka) Yes! Yes!!


Chi_townPhilly said:


> I kind of hope that Uruguay can turn into the little country that could...


So far, so good!...

And on a not entirely unrelated note, I recently re-read a portion of Ándres Cantor's book _Gooooaaaal_ re: Uruguay v. Brazil 1950 & the "Maracaná Shocker"--- inspiring stuff!


----------



## jurianbai

i predict uruguay vs paraguay in final


----------



## jurianbai

jurianbai said:


> i predict uruguay vs paraguay in final


eeeh... failed.

Btw, Argentine play very bad tonight. Their ball was predictable and their striker shoot the ball like they haven't eat for weeks.


----------



## TresPicos

Uruguay vs Paraguay would have been a cool final. 

This world cup seemed, a while ago, to be a South American triumph at the expense of Europe, but here we are with three European teams in the semi finals. 

I would like to see Uruguay vs Spain in the final, but Holland vs Germany seems more likely.


----------



## jhar26

TresPicos said:


> Uruguay vs Paraguay would have been a cool final.
> 
> This world cup seemed, a while ago, to be a South American triumph at the expense of Europe, but here we are with three European teams in the semi finals.
> 
> I would like to see Uruguay vs Spain in the final, but Holland vs Germany seems more likely.


Probably, yes. But there are no certainties in a game where luck plays such a huge part in the possible outcome or where the referee is the most important person on the pitch. I'd also say that whoever scores the first goal in any of these matches has an 80% chance of winning.


----------



## jhar26

jurianbai said:


> Btw, Argentine play very bad tonight. Their ball was predictable and their striker shoot the ball like they haven't eat for weeks.


Their biggest problem was their poor defence though. Most surprising thing about the tournament so far is the total panic of Brazil after Holland had scored their equalizer.


----------



## Argus

All the teams I wanted to win in the quarters got knocked out, so now I don't really care who wins as long as it's not the Germans.

I think it'd be nice for Holland to win their first World Cup but I really think their current style of football is not nice to watch at all. I wouldn't mind Spain winning it as well because on paper their team is probably the best in the world at the moment but if they don't pull their finger out, I can't see them getting past the Germans. I don't really want Uruguay to win it as they have always been a bit dirty and cynical in their style and Forlan really is carrying the rest of the team a bit.

I reckon a Holland-Germany final with the Germans just nicking it late in the second half. That is also exactly what I don't want to happen.

Also, some more terrible refereeing in that Paraguay-Spain game. Firstly, that Paraguayan defender who fouled Villa for the penalty should have been sent off. Secondly, that penalty shouldn't have been retaken as all penalties have some encroachment from players. And the worst mistake of all was missing the blatant foul on Fabregas by Villar after the retaken penalty was saved. Not to mention the linesman giving that Paraguay goal as offside.



> This world cup seemed, a while ago, to be a South American triumph at the expense of Europe, but here we are with three European teams in the semi finals.


I wonder how many people before the tournament would have thought Uruguay would be the last non-European team in the running.

And out of the Europeans we have two long time under performers and a team that seems to constantly make the semi finals at least, no matter how good or bad their team is.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Argus said:


> I think it'd be nice for Holland to win their first World Cup but I really think their current style of football is not nice to watch at all.
> 
> Firstly, that Paraguayan defender who fouled Villa for the penalty should have been sent off. Secondly, that penalty shouldn't have been retaken as all penalties have some encroachment from players. And the worst mistake of all was missing the blatant foul on Fabregas by Villar after the retaken penalty was saved.


Im sorry that you are dissapointed that Holland is playing 'ugly', but our entire country is ecstatic about this change. We have too long focused on playing with style and we have nothing to show for it. Besides, the way they are playing now is still far more attractive than the play of Italy, Germany, Argentina, England, France and many other top teams.

Secondly, that Paraguayan defender should not have been sent off; Piqué should have been sent off. 
I disagree again, the penalty should have been retaken, where the referee failed was in consistency as the penalty against Spain should have been retaken also.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Im sorry that you are dissapointed that Holland is playing 'ugly', but our entire country is ecstatic about this change. We have too long focused on playing with style and we have nothing to show for it. Besides, the way they are playing now is still far more attractive than the play of Italy, Germany, Argentina, England, France and many other top teams.
> 
> Secondly, that Paraguayan defender should not have been sent off; Piqué should have been sent off.
> I disagree again, the penalty should have been retaken, where the referee failed was in consistency as the penalty against Spain should have been retaken also.


As much as I don't want Germany to win, I have to admit they are playing the best football in the tournament. Argentina were playing more attractive football than Holland but had nowhere near the quality in defence as they did up front. If Spain get it together with Xavi and Iniesta pulling the strings in midfield, they should stroll to title but they are a team that needs to score the first goal to get on top in a match.

Pique was foulling Cardozo but that was not a clear cut goal scoring opportunity unlike the challenge on Villa which was committed by the last defender. I wanted Paraguay to win, so was happy the penalty was retaken, but really it was the referee looking for an excuse to help Paraguay out. He made a mistake in the Paraguay-Germany game in the 2006 World Cup which went in favour of Germany and I think that played on his mind. He didn't want to be Paraguayan public enemy No.1.

Oh and here's another reason the Germans shouldn't win:



 &


----------



## emiellucifuge

To me "If Spain get it together with Xavi and Iniesta pulling the strings in midfield, they should stroll to title" sounds like a huge assumption.

Lets look at how the teams have been playing so far:

Holland has defeated Brazil.
Germany has defeated England and Argentina.
Spain has had it relatively easy, barely squeezing past Paraguay. The only top team theyve really faced is Portugal, and theyve played pretty awful. 
To me Spain is looking less like favorites and im feeling confident that Germany will defeat for a spot in the final.


P.S. those videos are hilarious.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> To me "If Spain get it together with Xavi and Iniesta pulling the strings in midfield, they should stroll to title" sounds like a huge assumption.
> 
> Lets look at how the teams have been playing so far:
> 
> Holland has defeated Brazil.
> Germany has defeated England and Argentina.
> Spain has had it relatively easy, barely squeezing past Paraguay. The only top team theyve really faced is Portugal, and theyve played pretty awful.
> To me Spain is looking less like favorites and im feeling confident that Germany will defeat for a spot in the final.
> 
> P.S. those videos are hilarious.


Yeah, thats what I'm saying. Spain have not yet performed to the best of their abilities whereas Germany have overperformed, especially against Argentina. If Spain can buck up and get not only David Villa but the like of Iniesta, Xavi and Alonso to control the ball then Germany will have a tough game. They look to me to be playing in first gear, the question is whether they can raise their game against the better teams. I think that del Bosque should not start Torres as he is obviously out of form and he should play Llorente who looked lively against Portugal.

Ideally, I'd like a Spain-Holland final but I can easily see upsets from Germany and Uruguay.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Good! Its on!


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> Yeah, thats what I'm saying. Spain have not yet performed to the best of their abilities whereas Germany have overperformed, especially against Argentina. If Spain can buck up and get not only David Villa but the like of Iniesta, Xavi and Alonso to control the ball then Germany will have a tough game. They look to me to be playing in first gear, the question is whether they can raise their game against the better teams. I think that del Bosque should not start Torres as he is obviously out of form and he should play Llorente who looked lively against Portugal.


Yes, letting Torres start over and over again in order to get him back into form has not been such a great idea, leaving Spain with David Villa as the only threat (but what a threat, though!) to the opponents. Llorente is a better alternative, or even Pedro.

Also, the Spanish team needs to be more flexible. Germany wants to win. Period. Spain wants to win by playing their "superior" style of football. And the fact that their superior style of football hasn't lead them to any world cup victories so far doesn't make it less superior... If they get stuck in a game, they just try more of the same and, if that doesn't work either, _even _more of the same. And then Villa does something out of the ordinary to win the game for them, which somehow seems to prove that their ordinary way of playing really _was _superior. And should they lose, then it's not because they have become easy for the opponents to read. No, then it's because of some curse... 

Sometimes, Spain is like the bull in a bullfight. "It should work if I attack the red blanket. Okay, it doesn't. But I try again. No, no luck. Okay, again. Nope. But if I try again..."


----------



## Argus

This must be Hollands year. Everything just seems to be falling into place for them. Plus Sneijder is one lucky player. He was probably the weakest link in that match last night, yet he got a flukey goal and was voted ITV's Man of the Match. Great goals from Robben and van Bronckhurst though. Robben is easily the main man in the Dutch squad and if he plays well the team plays well. It was a pity Uruguay scored too late to make the ending really interesting. Still a very enjoyable game to watch. I'll say Forlan gets my vote for player of the tournament so far, just ahead of Villa and Muller.



TresPicos said:


> Yes, letting Torres start over and over again in order to get him back into form has not been such a great idea, leaving Spain with David Villa as the only threat (but what a threat, though!) to the opponents. Llorente is a better alternative, or even Pedro.
> 
> Also, the Spanish team needs to be more flexible. Germany wants to win. Period. Spain wants to win by playing their "superior" style of football. And the fact that their superior style of football hasn't lead them to any world cup victories so far doesn't make it less superior... If they get stuck in a game, they just try more of the same and, if that doesn't work either, _even _more of the same. And then Villa does something out of the ordinary to win the game for them, which somehow seems to prove that their ordinary way of playing really _was _superior. And should they lose, then it's not because they have become easy for the opponents to read. No, then it's because of some curse...
> 
> Sometimes, Spain is like the bull in a bullfight. "It should work if I attack the red blanket. Okay, it doesn't. But I try again. No, no luck. Okay, again. Nope. But if I try again..."


I agree that Spain seem to run out of attacking ideas if they are stuggling to score a goal. They just stick with their plan of passing the opposition to death. But even when they're not playing well, with the likes of Villa and Torres just on the pitch, they are always a goal threat.

To give credit to the Germans, they really do play well in pressure matches and putting four past both England and Argentina is far more impressive than 1-0 wins over Paraguay and Portugal.


----------



## jhar26

I don't care who they play in the final, as long as Holland ends up winning.


----------



## Argus

Spain were easily the better team in that match. Del Bosque got it right by not starting Torres, as Pedro was one of their better players (apart from that chance where he should have squared it to Torres). They just dominated possesion and when they did lose it they hounded it back down again. But I have to say, Puyol was well down on my list of players who I thought would get the winner. Germany did defend well though and it was only one slack bit of marking from a corner that cost them. And then there was the bonus that a dodgy decision didn't decide the result.

I've decided I'm backing Spain in the final now. When they get their passing game on, they are just a joy to watch. It'd be nice to see Holland get a touch of the ball every ten minutes or so, to make the game interesting.


----------



## jurianbai

mean new Champion!!! 

Btw, do you read about a squid that escape being barbequed?


----------



## Herkku

Yeah. As it turned out, the octopus was right again! And, now the German football extremists are said to want to eat it!


----------



## Herkku

I wonder what anyone's love poems have to do with The World Cup Thread...


----------



## sospiro

Herkku said:


> I wonder what anyone's love poems have to do with The World Cup Thread...


I think it might be spam


----------



## Krummhorn

sospiro said:


> I think it might be spam


It was ... and has been removed


----------



## jurianbai

but don't remove this please: 'Beautiful Game'


----------



## jurianbai

sorry can't help myself, but this is official now : Octopus vs Parakeet in World Cup 2010 final


----------



## Argus

jurianbai said:


> sorry can't help myself, but this is official now : Octopus vs Parakeet in World Cup 2010 final


The tentacled one knows all. There's no need to even play the game now, as the outcome is certain. I can't wait to see the tears stream down Arjen Robben's unnaturally aged face on Sunday.

When the Premier League starts in August, I hope at least a few clowns turn up blowing their vuvuzelas at the first game. I might be one of the few people who really like them, especially when they get a bit of rhythmic accents to the drone. Actually, I think a constant drone is better than that English brass band who seem to only play the main riffs from the Great Escape, Ring of Fire and Self-Preservation Society eternally.

Overall though, it's not been a great World Cup. Too many dull matches in the early rounds and very few of the players had learnt how to strike that Jabulani ball properly.


----------



## Argus

Finally, the English are in the final.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8802425.stm


----------



## Head_case

Just about....they made it into the finals by staying on the fence 

His wife made a funny comment about him. She said she didn't know how he was going to control two sides of a football team if he couldn't even control his 3 kids at home. 

Ahhh. The classic Englishman and his female sidekick - kicking him in the teeth


----------



## Herkku

Well, at least Paul the octopus predicted correctly the outcome of the Germany-Uruguay match. The national anthem of Uruguay brought Rossini immediately to my mind - no offence meant!


----------



## andruini

Herkku said:


> Well, at least Paul the octopus predicted correctly the outcome of the Germany-Uruguay match. The national anthem of Uruguay brought Rossini immediately to my mind - no offence meant!


I don't know about Rossini, but I LOVE their national anthem..
EDIT: I just heard it without all the TV noise and all, and you're totally right.. But it's great for a national anthem though! Very fun!


----------



## Argus

I pity the fools that doubted the octopus.

Not a classic final by any stretch but at least the better team won. Holland were content to kick lumps out of the Spaniards and occasionally attack on the break. And then they have the gall to argue with Howard Webb at the final whistle. They could have been down to 9 men in normal time alone. The only Dutch player who did anything really positive throughout the match was Robben.

I'm glad Spain won because they really did have the best team. Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Torres, Alonso, Fabregas, Puyol, Pique, Ramos, hell practically the entire team are top quality. The only criticism of the Spanish style of play is that they don't have a plan B, but when it clicks, they are amongst the best footballing teams ever.

I think Webb did alright considering the amount of fouls committed. He kept 11 Dutch players on the pitch for a very long time but was leniant to van Bommel and when Robben kicked the ball away. He certainly didn't deserve the boos and whistles when he received his medal.

I did think it was a bit pretentious of the Spanish team to change into shirts with the WC star over the badge before they'd even been awarded the trophy, though. I wonder if the Dutch did the same.

Look out for the Germans at the next World Cup. They looked good with such a young team and they can only get better with experience.

I'll miss the vuvuzelas.


----------



## andruini

Not a good match by any means, almost as bad as Italy - France in 2006... But I'm glad Spain won, considering they're basically Barcelona + Casillas.
I think Webb was fine as well, definitely not deserving of the boo's... It was such a dirty match, he was just trying his best to keep everyone in order..
I thought it looked horrible that the Dutch manager took off his medal as soon as he stepped off the platform.. 
I'm glad it's over anyway, I must say.. I've had enough football for the rest of the year!


----------



## Aramis

I supported nation that had more kewl composers and me glad they won.


----------



## Head_case

Yessss yesss yesss!!!

Viva Espana! 

I'll have to send congratulations to my spanish friend who hates football as much as me. 

Just utterly appalling seeing the Dutch manager take off his silver medal in contempt of the crowd once he walked off the platform. What a bad sport. The whole pack of Dutch thugs. Those Dutch hooligans don't deserve second spot. That silver should've gone to Germany.


----------



## andruini

That silver should've gone to Uruguay, they played with the most heart and conviction out of all the teams..


----------



## emiellucifuge

I feel these last two comments are ridiculous. 
Pack of dutch thugs? They formed that tunnel of honour out of respect, not because they had to.
Secondly, Uruguay barely deserved to make it past the quarter final. Pure cheating!


----------



## Herkku

Well, The World Cup is over. So, let's move on!


----------



## TresPicos

The Spanish way of playing football...










... deservedly won over the Dutch way....










Thank god!


----------



## Edward Elgar

The third place match Germany v. Uruguay was so exiting. It was as if they had nothing to loose and the number of goals scored reflected the excitement.

The final for me was slightly boring. Not much action. A couple of chances throughout but because everything was at stake I suppose they couldn't be too reckless.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Alternatively:


----------



## TresPicos

emiellucifuge said:


> Alternatively:


I think I prefer an arm around my waist over a hard kick in the chest... 

Over the years, the Dutch teams have gained a lot of goodwill all over the world, because of their way of playing and because of spectacular stars like Cruyff, Gullit, van Basten, Kluivert, Bergkamp etc. But after last night's game, some of that goodwill has clearly been lost. I used to like the Dutch teams, but that was before the "thug era".


----------



## emiellucifuge

I dont understand this whole "thug" era/thing.

I do agree, that they played very very brutally in the final. Then I am of the opinion that it is up to the ref to maintain order and draw a line: which he clearly hesitated to do as a red card was given only in extra time. Then if we look back at the other games Holland has played in this tournament, I dont see the same brutality anywhere. It is a one-off and people are over-reacting. 

P.S yes the world cup final is there to be won and not danced around so i completely condone teams doing all that is possible to win it. I hope you outside of Holland can also understand the incredible dissapointments we have faced when it comes to the world cup; finalists twice in a row playing the best football but still losing, the whole country is happy that the team has finally decided to just do what it takes to win for once.


----------



## jhar26

andruini said:


> That silver should've gone to Uruguay, they played with the most heart and conviction out of all the teams..


They should have gone out in the quarters against Ghana when Suarez had his 'hand of god' moment. Not that I hold it against him though. Cheating has and always will be a part of football.


----------



## jhar26

emiellucifuge said:


> P.S yes the world cup final is there to be won and not danced around so i completely condone teams doing all that is possible to win it.


Within limits, yes. But karate kicks and tackles from behind with no intention of touching the ball are over that limit. It serves no purpose anyway - there's nothing to be gained by it except for a yellow or red card and maybe a bad concience if you seriously injure someone.

I wanted Holland to win though. Both because being Belgian it's our closest neighbour and because they have (with Brazil) the best fans in the world.


----------



## emiellucifuge

So the ref should have pulled a red on de Jong, not only would it have been the correct punishment, but it could have completely wiped out any future dutch offences during the match.


----------



## jhar26

emiellucifuge said:


> So the ref should have pulled a red on de Jong, not only would it have been the correct punishment, but it could have completely wiped out any future dutch offences during the match.


I agree. On the other hand, I understand the referee's hesitation. It happened so early in the match that a red card would have almost totally ruined the chances of Holland. It would have been an anti climax if the match had been decided so soon by a refree's descision - even if it would have been the right one.


----------



## Head_case

So many strange decisions.

Not red-carding the idiot karate chopper was an act of generosity, maybe to make the sides more competitive.



> P.S yes the world cup final is there to be won and not danced around so i completely condone teams doing all that is possible to win it.


Well! Well....! Well....I support Millwall FC so neh!

Just kidding.

The Dutch fouls amounted to 28 fouls compared to Spain's 18 fouls: only the patriotic can honestly convince themselves that the Dutch sincerely deserved to win for sportsmanship. They were hardly honourable in their game play. The Spanish were not saints, however they were nowhere near as offensive as the Dutch on that pitch.

What does a tunnel of honour mean, when the Dutch manager rips off his silver medal as he descends the platform, in contempt of the public world and the football authority? His lack of sportsmanship and the style of Dutch football play is a step backward for football. Not forward. That's Spain's legacy: their style and panache


----------



## mamascarlatti

This was the first soccer match I've ever watched (NZ is a rugby nation where the physicality is an intrinsic part of the game). I've always heard it called the beautiful game, well it wasn't, and the people I noticed being distinctly unbeautiful were the Dutch. If the only way you can win is by effectively playing dirty you don't deserve to win, World Cup or not, really wanting to win or not. I'd rather watch a clean game played with skill and agility.


----------



## Argus

mamascarlatti said:


> This was the first soccer match I've ever watched (NZ is a rugby nation where the physicality is an intrinsic part of the game). I've always heard it called the beautiful game, well it wasn't, and the people I noticed being distinctly unbeautiful were the Dutch. If the only way you can win is by effectively playing dirty you don't deserve to win, World Cup or not, really wanting to win or not. I'd rather watch a clean game played with skill and agility.


Did you not see the New Zealand matches then. They were the only team in the tournament that didn't lose a game. Very impressive considering they looked like that groups whipping boys beforehand.

To be fair, the Dutch knew if they tried to play in a similar style to Spain, they would more than likely get beat as the Spaniards are a technically better team. I think they were right to try and break up play and keep tight on the key Spanish midfielders, it's just that constant tackles from behind and kicks to the chest are a bit too far. It did ruin the game as a spectacle but then again all they cared about was going home with the trophy.

And although I wanted Spain to win, they have their vices too. Asking for opposition players to be shown a card and diving are more their specialities. Well, this can be said of many teams nowadays but the Spanish league has been full of it for a while now.



> I do agree, that they played very very brutally in the final. Then I am of the opinion that it is up to the ref to maintain order and draw a line: which he clearly hesitated to do as a red card was given only in extra time. Then if we look back at the other games Holland has played in this tournament, I dont see the same brutality anywhere. It is a one-off and people are over-reacting.


Van Bommel was lucky to elude a booking against Brazil and almost got away scot free against Uruguay if he didn't show dissent in added time. It was like he was untouchable.

As for Webbs decisions, I'd say overall they favoured Holland, so I can't understand their complaints. Yes, it should have been a corner of Sneijder's free kick and yes, Elia may have been fouled, but Holland could have been down to 8 or 9 players by then, if it even went into extra time. Webb did a decent job all things considered. Hopefully, video referees will come into place soon to cut down on the responsibility of one man.

I wouldn't say the Dutch were dirty or brutal this tournament but they were definitely cynical and played very negative football at times. If the team that played the prettiest football had won it would have been Germany by a mile but they come up against a Spain team that didn't give them much of a sniff of the ball.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Head_case said:


> The Dutch fouls amounted to 28 fouls compared to Spain's 18 fouls: only the patriotic can honestly convince themselves that the Dutch sincerely deserved to win for sportsmanship. They were hardly honourable in their game play. The Spanish were not saints, however they were nowhere near as offensive as the Dutch on that pitch.


Im not convinced they deserved to win at all. Despite how close the match was; Spain was the better team and it was inevitable that they would score. That being said it such a shame that Robben missed that chance.



Head_case said:


> What does a tunnel of honour mean, when the Dutch manager rips off his silver medal as he descends the platform, in contempt of the public world and the football authority? His lack of sportsmanship and the style of Dutch football play is a step backward for football. Not forward. That's Spain's legacy: their style and panache


The tunnel of honour, when the entire dutch team lined up to congratulate Spain as they descended with their medals. Van Marwijks action here, only shows his drive and tunnel-vision for gold. Talking about legacy, its unfortunate but you could say that Holland's legacy is Spanish football 



argus said:


> Van Bommel was lucky to elude a booking against Brazil and almost got away scot free against Uruguay if he didn't show dissent in added time. It was like he was untouchable.


Yeah, on the other hand it was Melo who blatantly stamped on Robbens thigh while he was on the ground.


----------



## jhar26

mamascarlatti said:


> This was the first soccer match I've ever watched (NZ is a rugby nation where the physicality is an intrinsic part of the game). I've always heard it called the beautiful game, well it wasn't, and the people I noticed being distinctly unbeautiful were the Dutch. If the only way you can win is by effectively playing dirty you don't deserve to win, World Cup or not, really wanting to win or not. I'd rather watch a clean game played with skill and agility.


Well, as the saying goes - rugby is a game for barbarians played by gentlemen and soccer is a game for gentlemen played by barbarians.  Having said that, there's no reason to give up on soccer based on just this one game, Natalie. Most of the time it's not this brutal and this final was actually one of the least attractive games of the tournament.


----------



## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Yeah, on the other hand it was Melo who blatantly stamped on Robbens thigh while he was on the ground.


Err, you're overlooking a key difference. Melo was rightly sent off for his stamp, whereas van Bommel was allowed to remain on the pitch all tournament.

I read today that all the nations that have won the World Cup, also were triumphant in their first appearance in the final. Seeing as Holland has had three bites at the apple, it looks like their destined to be forever bridesmaids. Take notes from England and France - one WC final, one WC trophy. (One and only looking at the state of the English and French recent performances.)



jhar26 said:


> I wanted Holland to win though. Both because being Belgian it's our closest neighbour and because they have (with Brazil) the best fans in the world.


So the Belgians get behind their neighbours. That's a weird concept for the British, as I'm quite sure the majority of the Scottish, Welsh and Irish inhabitants of our isles want England to get trounced every match they play in.

A positive that England can take from this tournament is that no hooliganry was caused by travelling fans. It's long been a tradition of the English to go abroad, get drunk and smash things up, but this time they did good. I think it helped that South African police/prisons are quite a bit different from European ones.


----------



## Granate

*2018 World Cup*

*2014 World Cup Thread*










Well, don't you think it's time to re-open the Soccer/Football World Cup Thread?! I'm ready!

















that is my own shirt from 2011 anyway​


----------



## Merl

I'm backing Scotland to win it, beating Italy in the final.


----------



## Vronsky

I'm Italian fan, but you know the story. I think this is the time when Belgium finally should step up, they certainly have the best attacking line in the whole tournament, even better than powerhouses like Spain, Brazil or Argentina, IMO. Other than that, I'm interested how Asensio would perform and I am little sad that Icardi isn't part of the Argentinian squad...


----------



## Merl

I'm backing Senegal to make it to the semi finals. Seriously!


----------



## TxllxT

The secret weapon of Putin: Babushky


----------



## elgar's ghost

Belgium have a strong team, and it could well be better than the team which reached the final of Euro 1980. But they remind me of Portugal - capable of beating anyone but not quite the finished article.


----------



## TxllxT

For those who love St Petersburg (& football)


----------



## Granate

TxllxT said:


> The secret weapon of Putin: Babushky


Don't even 

Good thing that 2012 was Loreen's year at Eurovision. One year later... *self-censorship*


----------



## Vronsky

I don't want to ruin the party, but from general perspective, if one of Italy, Brazil, Argentina or Germany isn't qualified, the World Cup is damaged goods.


----------



## Granate

This Situation in the Spanish team both yesterday and today is ashaming. But this time I side with our new head Luis Rubiales. The thing is still ongoing, but him firing Lopetegi, if it was true that negotiations with Real Madrid were hidden, is a necessary warning. 

Negotiations shouldn't even have happened before the World Cup.

Oh, and congratulations you Americans, Mexicans and Canadians, you'll be hosting the Soccer World Cup in 2016.


----------



## Granate

I don't know if Spain could win because of Diego Costa and Nacho or lost because of De Gea. To be fair, 3-3 is a fair result. I bow to Cristiano with politeness and bitterness. The match looked like one of the teams could squash the other, like in a Badminton match where the spell of one player beats the other.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Ladies and gentlemen - the Adidas Telstar from 1970 - the first world cup in colour and a reminder how great the football used to be when they actually used a spherical object heavy enough to be called a football. Remember the good old days when diving would be restricted to the summer Olympics and when pink footwear was worn by no-one else but ballerinas? 90% of footballers who ponce about these days are total benders.


----------



## Art Rock

As a neutral spectator, I must say Spain-Portugal was a delight to watch.


----------



## Prat

I got my money on Fiji


----------



## elgar's ghost

Art Rock said:


> As a neutral spectator, I must say Spain-Portugal was a delight to watch.


Same here - I was expecting a much cagier game. Credit to both sides.

I thought the atmosphere at the Morocco/Iran game was brilliant.

Hope the Aussies can knock the French off their stride today.


----------



## CnC Bartok

elgars ghost said:


> Same here - I was expecting a much cagier game. Credit to both sides.
> 
> I thought the atmosphere at the Morocco/Iran game was brilliant.
> 
> Hope the Aussies can knock the French off their stride today.


Don't be too shocked if our Antipodean friends do get one over on our chums from the other side of the Channel. They thrashed the Czechs in a warm-up friendly 4-0, the Czechs' heaviest ever defeat. I know they're not exactly world beaters at the moment, and haven't been since the likes of Nedvěd, Poborský And co disappeared off the scene, but even so.....


----------



## RogerExcellent

1-1 France -Aust


----------



## Art Rock

2-1 for France in the end. A dubious video referee decision (penalty for France) and an excellent goal line technology decision (goal for France).


----------



## CnC Bartok

Ah! So I see. Got that one wrong!


----------



## Art Rock

Halfway Argentina-Iceland. Interesting game, not a good game. Comedy capers in the Argentine defense.


----------



## Granate

Argentina couldn't score a second goal against Iceland. It was a lame second part even with the failed penalty.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Iceland are a fairly tough team these days but I still expected Argentina and their much-feted _galáctico_ element to blow them away. They'll certainly have to find their 'A' game next time around, but even if they muddle through qualification I expect them to get stronger after that.

Peru vs Denmark next - seems like an attractive proposition on paper.


----------



## joen_cph

Big congrats to the 335.000 Icelanders and their team, who is getting more and more routine in this game, against all the odds.


----------



## Granate

Cueva has missed the penalty for Perú too. Today I wouldn't like to be a football player and speak Spanish LOL.


----------



## Guest

Art Rock said:


> 2-1 for France in the end. A dubious video referee decision (penalty for France) and an excellent goal line technology decision (goal for France).


I think it was the second nibble at the trailing ankle that was the foul, not the first 'trip'...looked like a pen to me. Unlike the Argentina pen, which wasn't.

For those watching on BBC, the ignorance about how VAR is supposed to work is annoying. The pundits are supposed to help us understand...not obfuscate.


----------



## joen_cph

The Danes were not convincing in their first game, and lucky to win 1:0 against the dynamic Peruvian team.

Statistically Denmark has done well recently though, with a series of well-deserved victories (4:0 against Poland, 5:1 against Ireland, 2:0 against Mexico, 4:1 against Armenia ...)


----------



## Granate

Fantastic forecast for Tonight's TV. Me and my parents have to choose between watching Croatia-Nigeria or a Liceu Broadcast of _Manon Lescaut_ from Barcelona with subtitles in Spanish and traditional staging. I didn't expect that.

Of course we remained with the Football match. I've got no plans for Puccini challenges yet and I'm too deep into French Opera.

Also, my parents complain about the struggle of Watching opera on TV in a language they don't speak. :lol:


----------



## elgar's ghost

MacLeod said:


> I think it was the second nibble at the trailing ankle that was the foul, not the first 'trip'...looked like a pen to me. Unlike the Argentina pen, which wasn't.
> 
> For those watching on BBC, the ignorance about how VAR is supposed to work is annoying. The pundits are supposed to help us understand...not obfuscate.


That's one reason why I usually have it on mute.


----------



## Granate

Well, let's remember the good old days...

If Peru had used Mexico strategies they could have beaten Denmark easily. What a beautiful match.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Hard luck, Angie babes...


----------



## Vronsky

The Albanians were here to save Switzerland. It would be hard without them to compete against the great Brazil...


----------



## Guest

Granate, what do you make of the drug taking in the great Spanish team (and tennis players) of recent years, evidenced in the Fuentes scandal but covered up by the Spanish government. Has this been given much coverage in the Spanish media, or does patriotism win out?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Ossie Ossie Ossie


----------



## Vronsky

England vs. Tunisia today. I think the English team struggles for a very long time with the goalkeeper position. IMO, the last decent goalkeeper (when I say decent, I mean for an elite team, candidate for the trophy) was David James (I watched him in Portsmouth when they formed excellent team led by Harry Redknapp), but when he was the first choice for England, he was in the twilight of his career. Joe Hart was okayish, nothing special, Paul Robinson was bad... The attacking line is very promising, Kane, Alli, Rashford and Sterling are great, plus the bench has good depth.


----------



## elgar's ghost

^
^

Valid point about the goalkeeper problem, Vronsky, and therein lies an irony. When England failed to qualify for both the 74 and 78 World Cups they had at their disposal three of the best goalkeepers in the game - Peter Shilton, Ray Clemence and Joe Corrigan.


----------



## Guest

Yes, England had the best goalies in the world. Banks, Clemence & Shilts. Northern Ireland had Jennings. Such a shame that they can't produce one of that class any more.


----------



## Granate

I admit the Iran-Spain from yesterday was annoying to watch. Good thing we resisted.

Anyone watched Poland-Senegal? I felt pity for the Polish. They were losing all the balls and could never run too fast.


----------



## Art Rock

I found the Iran strategy baffling. For the largest part of the game, they parked, not a bus, but a mammoth tanker in front of their own goal. The few times they actually started to play football instead, they were extremely dangerous. Why not a better mix of the two? Anyway, as they need a win against Portugal, we should get to see more playing from them.

Today's games should be interesting.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Tulse said:


> Yes, England had the best goalies in the world. Banks, Clemence & Shilts. Northern Ireland had Jennings. Such a shame that they can't produce one of that class any more.


Just think how many caps Peter Shilton would have earned had Ray Clemence not been on the scene! And vice versa for that matter.

Anyone here remember the (in)famous Jan Tomaszewski? The man who stopped England? Brian Clough's Clown? That truly awful bunch of Polish non-entities (that finished Third in the 1974 World Cup...)


----------



## Kollwitz

The most amusing thing about the Spain v Iran game was seeing Ramos, Costa and Busquets against even more cynical opponents for a change. 

Isco has been a real joy to watch. It'll be interesting to see Spain against a team who don't park the bus. Although they look vulnerable, they've still got a huge amount of quality.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Robert Pickett said:


> Just think how many caps Peter Shilton would have earned had Ray Clemence not been on the scene! And vice versa for that matter.
> 
> Anyone here remember the (in)famous Jan Tomaszewski? The man who stopped England? Brian Clough's Clown? That truly awful bunch of Polish non-entities (that finished Third in the 1974 World Cup...)


Poland were certainly an unknown quantity at that time - none of their clubs were great shakes in European club football, plus they hadn't qualified for the world cup finals since 1938. No-one took any notice of the fact the core of the 1974 team had won the 1972 Olympic Gold medal - perhaps their 'amateur' status made them seem like a pushover.

England's failure to beat Wales at home in the same three-team group undid them just as much as the Poland games. Also, I think Alf Ramsey's tactics were so stale by then - unlike many European teams England's playing style hadn't evolved since 1966, not least because during the early 70s the dour Ramsey was often suspicious of talented 'flair' players like Alan Hudson and Tony Currie because he thought they were undisciplined and lazy.


----------



## LezLee

Tulse said:


> Yes, England had the best goalies in the world. Banks, Clemence & Shilts. Northern Ireland had Jennings. Such a shame that they can't produce one of that class any more.


I always liked Banks's autobiography being called 'Banks of England'
Alan Ball's was 'It's all about A. Ball'


----------



## LezLee

An English bloke asked his girlfriend to send him World Cup updates and received this.:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df_qRF4XUAcxHA5?format=jpg


----------



## CnC Bartok

Well I hope the Poles have better luck than they did against Senegal. Not the best team I've ever seen, not one they should lose to. Having said that......









Not the wisest tweet ever. But I think Lord Sugar needs it explaining to him (in words of one syllable) why this isn't that appropriate.


----------



## Granate

Robert Pickett said:


> Not the wisest tweet ever. But I think Lord Sugar needs it explaining to him (in words of one syllable) why this isn't that appropriate.


----------



## Vronsky

I liked how the Japanese played against the Colombian team. Constant pressure and strong will, even though the Colombians had all the stars.


----------



## joen_cph

Only saw parts of the Denmark-Australia game (1:1), but the Danes did better than in their first game against Peru (which they won 1:0) with a really superb first goal, and the penalty for Australia resulting in 1-1 was obviously the ball hitting a Danish player´s hand accidentally. They say such penalties are particularly frequent in the Spanish league, which is where the referee came from.


----------



## Vronsky

I watched Denmark vs. Australia, I think Denmark should be happy with the result, the whole initiative in the game was from the Australian side. Sisto was the only player in the Danish jersey who played well, in my opinion.


----------



## Granate

Too bad I didn't write in Talk Classical in November that I wanted Argentina to be in Spain's group. Only my parents know.

This Croatia victory was quite predictable if I remember Arg's poor results in the qualifying matches.


----------



## CnC Bartok

An ageing, one-man team, Argentina?

A bit like Germany in Euro 2000.....


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oie Oie Oie


----------



## joen_cph

Vronsky said:


> I watched Denmark vs. Australia, I think Denmark should be happy with the result, the whole initiative in the game was from the Australian side. Sisto was the only player in the Danish jersey who played well, in my opinion.


Sisto gets a lot critique here, he is considered a talent, but hasn´t lived up to it until now. 
The 1st half is thought to be mainly dominated by the Danes, but the Australians were the best in the 2nd half ...


----------



## elgar's ghost

If Argentina go home early I wouldn't like to be in their shoes when they emerge from the plane.


----------



## CnC Bartok

On that basis I hope their goalkeeper decides to make his way back to his current club and the relative safety of London, rather than going back to Buenos Aires.....


----------



## Granate

elgars ghost said:


> If Argentina go home early I wouldn't like to be in their shoes when they emerge from the plane.


This Simpsons video has become viral after the Argentina match:


----------



## Vronsky

I think yesterday, Brozović and Perišić through Rebić's celebration tried to send message to someone on the Argentinian side. Maybe sounds like a conspiracy, but it is possible...


----------



## Guest

Robert Pickett said:


> Just think how many caps Peter Shilton would have earned had Ray Clemence not been on the scene! And vice versa for that matter.
> 
> Anyone here remember the (in)famous Jan Tomaszewski? The man who stopped England? Brian Clough's Clown? That truly awful bunch of Polish non-entities (that finished Third in the 1974 World Cup...)


Yes, I remember that game. My match report is in an old English schoolbook that for some reason has survived 45 years of culls. 

In those days there were only 16 qualifiers so it was much harder to get to the World Cup finals. Scotland's teams in 1974 and 1978 have maybe not received the respect they deserve.

It is a pity that we don't have a UK team. It is hard enough to compete at the top level but to voluntarily choose not to select from substantial pools of players is quite ludicrous.


----------



## Granate

It's delightful to watch this England-Panama. If they keep scoring this way Belgium may end 2nd qualifier if they draw next match.


----------



## Madiel

Granate said:


> It's delightful to watch this England-Panama. If they keep scoring this way Belgium may end 2nd qualifier if they draw next match.


delightful? if it was boxing the match would have been suspended, that was a great rule!


----------



## CnC Bartok

Fun game going on in Ekaterinburg between Japan and Senegal. Anybody's call......!


----------



## Granate

Has any of you watched De Gea playing in the United? Fans say he's the best goalkeeper in the world. My country's fantasy is to call him to play with the national team instead of that random robot Lopetegui chose.










Also, about the rest of our players:


----------



## elgar's ghost

I'm sorry about Iran's exit - they didn't much wrong in their three matches.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Now it time for the Aussies to destroy Peru


----------



## Guest

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Now it time for the Aussies to destroy Peru


Currently destroying them 0 - 2.

:devil:


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

dogen said:


> Currently destroying them 0 - 2.
> 
> :devil:


Next time, we was just unlucky


----------



## CnC Bartok

Wot, no Germans in the knock out rounds????


----------



## Granate

I was watching the match and at least the Germans were quite lame. The game was slow in a Celibidache-style. Ughh. The Korean goal was the end. South Korea couldn't attack correctly and Germany coulnd't score in any chance. They had terrible aim. Then the desperation to make Neuer play in the other side. I even hurt my knee in the second goal when I was celebrating.

That said. Mexicans on Twitter are really happy for South Korea and BTS plays are rising. However, a victory against Sweden would have qualified South Korea too.


----------



## elgar's ghost




----------



## Granate

Hey Englishmen and Belgians! What's your wish for the next match? The loser or 2nd in the group get's the "easy" side of the knockouts avoiding Argentina, Brazil, France, Portugal and Uruguay. Think of it, wouldn't you love to squash Spain by 7-0 if you have the chance to face our main goalkeeper? 

Also, my favourite right now to win the World Cup is France, followed by Belgium and Croatia (they are nice guys......).


----------



## CnC Bartok

Me? Brazil or Argentina. Because they are still there. Maybe Portugal, same side that scraped through their group two years ago....

Ironic that there is no word in English for Schadenfreude!


----------



## elgar's ghost

From an England view I'd rather they go for it and not worry over who they meet in the last 8 and beyond (assuming they get to the last 8, but I'm confident that they will beat whoever they meet from Group H in the last 16). If England noticeably ease up against Belgium other teams might smell blood - you can't hide forever. Obviously the same principle applies to Belgium, so I hope we don't see a travesty of a match where both teams are actually reluctant to win.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Is Iceland still in it- I'll go fro them


----------



## CnC Bartok

I think the odds on Iceland winning have significantly lengthened since Tuesday, I'm afraid.....

Both England and Belgium are in an awful situation (First-World problems, eh?). How's about the attitude "one game at a time", rather than ignoring the possibility of losing to Columbia on penalties. If you can't win games you don't win the World Cup, if you fear Brazil, you have no chance. If you underestimate Senegal or Japan, no chance.


----------



## Merl

Looks like Belgium are gonna play their 2nd XI against England. Tbh, none of the teams left (or those who have gone out) look that great. From an English perspective this is the best chance to do well for years but watch them ***** up and go out on penalties to someone crap. But who knows..........


----------



## Guest

It is a pity that the competition to find the best nations in the the most popular global sport is decided in many cases by tiebreakers (ET or pens). The strong England team that got to the semis under Robson had a 90 minutes record of 1 win, 5 draws and 0 defeats. I like the World Cup, but I believe it to be a farce.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Adnan Janujaz picked his spot well to score but England were guilty of not closing him down.


----------



## Guest

France v Argentina...not a bad match in progress!:lol:

Matt le Tissier and Messi have one important skill in common...

...walking.


----------



## Granate

And France got the match. I think Argentina said farewell to the trophy with honours. They were up to their reputation and the match was full of great goals.


----------



## Art Rock

It was a thrilling match to watch as a neutral spectator. Loved Mbappe (of course), but got to give credit to the Argentinians who did not give up. Now, if Ronaldo would be so good to join Messi on the plain back to Spain tonight.....


----------



## Art Rock

France and Uruguay deserved winners, good for the tournament.


----------



## TxllxT

Russia wins with the penalty shootout. Spain heads for home. This World Cup is full of unexpected twists...


----------



## Granate

TxllxT said:


> This World Cup is full of unexpected twists...


Unexpected XDXDXDXDXDXDXD No one deserved to win the match.


----------



## hpowders

Great goalkeeping by Russia in the determining shootout. Not enough to mask the shockingly uninspired play of Spain.


----------



## Art Rock

Russia had a clear plan and executed it well. Spain did not have a plan, and were very, very poor indeed. I can't say I'm thrilled that Russia is through, but Spain really did not deserve it.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Art Rock. Couldn't agree more!

I reckon the next game could see eventual finalists? Croatia are the best team I've seen so far.

Kiss of Death, sorry Croatia!

One-nil Denmark after one minute. I'll shut up from now on......


----------



## Vronsky

I miss Grønkjær on the Danish squad..


----------



## elgar's ghost

I'm still catching my breath after yesterday's games - great stuff.


----------



## hpowders

Watching the PK’s in my PJ’s.....curiously refreshing!


----------



## Art Rock

CRO-DEN, not the most exciting match except for the first 5 minutes and the last 2 of the extra time, but at least justice was served. Now either Croatia or Russia will be in the semi's, I'm sure one could have made a bundle of money at the betting desks on that. very much looking forward to BRA-MEX today.


----------



## Art Rock

Interlude:

An anagram I found of one of the big stars:

Neymar Junior = Injury moaner


----------



## TxllxT

Look how Russia is changing as a people. The night after Russia-Spain in Moscow. Reminds me of 1989...


----------



## Madiel

Art Rock said:


> Interlude:
> 
> An anagram I found of one of the big stars:
> 
> Neymar Junior = Injury moaner


well, being someone who stopped watching football around they year 2000 and has resumed watching it three months ago. I'd say that being a moaner seems to be the common trait of the current generation of "stars"


----------



## Guest

I'm not following this competition cos I'm not really into football but last night I was in a pub surrounded by 4, yes, 4 TVs so I kind of found myself watching a match (everyone else was) which went to penalty shoot-outs. Now when I was a lad, most penalties resulted, quite rightly, in a goal. I feel this was partly because there was a rule requiring the goalie to stay on his line until the ball is kicked. In last night's game the goalie was almost as close to the dead ball as the kicker. What gives?


----------



## elgar's ghost

^
^

As with crooked put-ins into the scrum in Rugby Union, I can only assume it's a rule which is equally as honoured in the breach as in the observance. Inconsistent refereeing doesn't help, of course...


----------



## elgar's ghost

TxllxT said:


> Look how Russia is changing as a people. The night after Russia-Spain in Moscow. Reminds me of 1989...


Don't know if it's true but I was informed that all known Russian football hooligan gangs were grounded on Putin's orders before the competition started. When the eyes of the world are upon you a move like that works wonders.


----------



## Guest

elgars ghost said:


> ^
> ^
> 
> As with crooked put-ins into the scrum in Rugby Union, I can only assume it's a rule which is equally as honoured in the breach as in the observance. Inconsistent refereeing doesn't help, of course...


Ah, now RU is a _proper_ game!


----------



## hpowders

Japan-Belgium.

One of the most magnificent matches ever played at World Cup.

You missed this one? Kick yourself!

Spectacular and electrifying!


----------



## Art Rock

A true rollercoaster ride....

Now Brazil-Belgium will be THE game of the QF's, a top referee will be assigned to it, and Neymar's theatrics will hopefully finally be punished.

After the Belgium win (and I count on them), I would love to see the whole Belgium team doing a victory celebration by rolling Neymar style over the field.


----------



## Granate

A great match played by Belgium. I'm angry because Japan deserved the victory if not the time extended period. They better beat Brazil next time. Pretty depressed right now.


----------



## hpowders

For folks who hate European football, play a tape of the second half of Japan-Belgium, 2018 World Cup. Electrifying! Some of those haters will change their minds!


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

But its just a game, give them all a ball each then see what happens


----------



## elgar's ghost

I think Brazil will get turned over in the quarter finals as long as Belgium don't bottle it. The so-called 'samba magic' is a thing of the distant past. Because all of their better players are snaffled up by European clubs at an early age the national team doesn't really play any differently to the likes of Italy these days. Too many teams still treat Brazil with too much respect, as if they permanently have a team of Peles or Zicos on the pitch. In the last world cup Germany showed how Brazil can crumble if you have the guts to take the game to them.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Art Rock said:


> A true rollercoaster ride....
> 
> Now Brazil-Belgium will be THE game of the QF's, a top referee will be assigned to it, and Neymar's theatrics will hopefully finally be punished.


Don't expect FIFA to punish him with anything more than a slap-on-the-wrist fine - players have getting away with this crAp since 2002 when Rivaldo collapsed like a sack of cement clutching his face after a Turkish player kicked the ball back to him (which hit him softly on the leg). After a review Rivaldo was fined a piddling CHF11000.


----------



## CnC Bartok

I always thought Rivaldo was covering his face in shame........


----------



## Granate

My congratulations English people!


----------



## elgar's ghost

Thank you - and we didn't choke this time!


----------



## CnC Bartok

Brexit Plans win the Nobel Prize for Economics

Bashar Al Assad wins the Nobel Peace Prize

Gyorgy Ligeti wins the Eurovision Song Contest

And England win a penalty shootout.

Well, we ALWAYS beat Sweden (!)


----------



## CnC Bartok

Sweden 4-2 England (2012 friendly)
Sweden 2-3 England (Euro 2012)
England 1-0 Sweden (2011 friendly)
Sweden 2-2 England (World Cup 2006)
Sweden 1-0 England (2004 friendly)
England 1-1 Sweden (World Cup 2002)
England 1-1 Sweden (2001 friendly)
England 0-0 Sweden (Euro 2000 qualifier)
Sweden 2-1 England (Euro 2000 qualifier)
England 3-3 Sweden (1995 friendly)

Foregone conclusion, judging from the above!


----------



## hpowders

England FINALLY wins a PK shootout!!! Other than that, they don't look like they have enough talent to get through the next round.

Watch out for France, Belgium and Brazil.


----------



## hpowders

Well, if England did lose the PK shootout, they could always fall back with pride in their top classical music composers, such as.........


----------



## GeorgeMcW

Handel!!!! 

He lived the last 40 years of his life in London, and became a naturalised British citizen. Pretty sure if it came down to it back then, he would've "played for England".


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Which composer was best at taking a dive....................


----------



## hpowders

GeorgeMcW said:


> Handel!!!!
> 
> He lived the last 40 years of his life in London, and became a naturalised British citizen. Pretty sure if it came down to it back then, he would've "played for England".


Maybe, but Handel was German. I could become a naturalized Brit, but one could never take the Brooklyn out of me.


----------



## Art Rock

Bye bye cry-baby. And what a save by Courtois in the dying seconds.

Now, if England and Croatia would be so kind to win today, we have four semi-finalists that I'd be happy to see become world champion.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Art Rock said:


> Bye bye cry-baby. And what a save by Courtois in the dying seconds.


Yeah. I won't miss the perennially over-hyped Brazil, least of all him. Now he can go back to being a big fish in a small pond playing his bush-league football with PSG.


----------



## Merl

Neymar has been a disgrace. Always glad to see the Brazilians go out. As has been said, overhyped. Better at the last World Cup where the Germans humiliated them in their own backyard. That was wonderful. Special mention to our lad, Kevin De Bruyne. How he didn't get player of the year wa a travesty. Best midfielder I've ever seen in a City kit (he even tops Colin 'The King' Bell and I never thought I'd ever say that).


----------



## elgar's ghost

Totally agree re KDB - he's the engine room of Manchester City and doesn't 'hide' when things get a bit tough, unlike some expensive imports have done for City (and virtually every other premier league club) in the recent past. Great player.


----------



## Vronsky




----------



## Roger Knox

*Swanee Answer*



EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Which composer was best at taking a dive....................


Composers have others dive for them, as in the operas, ballets, songs and tone poems about swans . . .


----------



## elgar's ghost

Vronsky said:


>


I wonder if Becks needed a spellchecker...


----------



## Guest

Robert Pickett said:


> Sweden 4-2 England (2012 friendly)
> Sweden 2-3 England (Euro 2012)
> England 1-0 Sweden (2011 friendly)
> Sweden 2-2 England (World Cup 2006)
> Sweden 1-0 England (2004 friendly)
> England 1-1 Sweden (World Cup 2002)
> England 1-1 Sweden (2001 friendly)
> England 0-0 Sweden (Euro 2000 qualifier)
> Sweden 2-1 England (Euro 2000 qualifier)
> England 3-3 Sweden (1995 friendly)
> 
> Foregone conclusion, judging from the above!


Don't do that then :lol:


----------



## Guest

Just looking at the BBC news. It shows photos and videos from around England during the match. One made me laugh: there was a giant TV screen at the Church of England General Synod (the legislative body). The article reports that the Bishop of Willesden was heard to shout out "Close him down!"

:lol:


----------



## Granate

Oh c'mon I wanted Russia to win so England could have more chances to be in the final sorry not sorry.


----------



## jim prideaux

as I start the day with Beethoven 2nd and 4th performed by Maag etc I reflect on an e mail from one of my brothers to the effect that if 1966 was 'made' in West Ham then it would be equally appropriate to ascribe the current success to Sunderland......not the N.E. and not Tyneside but Sunderland.......but this whole thing demands an even more partisan attitude as one of the players went to the same schools as myself, my brothers and my son.......so what you might say, and really I might be inclined to agree with you but this club (of which I am a long term season ticket holder) has done nothing but let down it's fans and embarrass us in front of the wider football world (I was even laughed at when talking to a football obsessed bar owner in Sarajevo last summer)........and I have personally been disappointed by my hometown's response to EU/Brexit referendum.......

......so now perhaps it is an opportunity to restore a little pride in this town after all that has happened over the past few years!

(I am fully aware I have mentioned a personal perspective regarding politics, not interested in debating it, just adding to the 'narrative')


----------



## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> Now, if England and Croatia would be so kind to win today, we have four semi-finalists that I'd be happy to see become world champion.


Lovely. 

Now, Belgium - England for the final please.


----------



## Madiel

what a pity, Russia - England would have been a marvelous semi (for reasons not strictly related to football of course) 
Croatia has played two 120 minutes games in a row and the semi will be played in four days, huge advantage for England.
Overall a very disappointing world cup, I guess athleticism and highly organized zone defense kill talent, Belgium seems to be the most talented team (Hazard has been the only guy worth wearing a #10 in this tournament), with France a close second, I hope one of them will win it all.


----------



## Guest

Madiel said:


> Overall a very disappointing world cup,


Oh, I don't know. I've enjoyed most of the games I've watched, especially SPA v POR, BRA v BEL and FRA v ARG. RUS v CRO last night was exhausting - not as skilful as expected, but still very dramatic.

The standard of football overall has been high, the refereeing perhaps less so, with variable inclination to use VAR and too much grabbing, pulling and even piggybacking at set pieces.

What has been most noticeable is that we can all now see that there are few easy games, and five of the Big Teams (BRA, SPA, POR, GER, ARG) have been found wanting by both superior and inferior opposition.

IMO, a truly inclusive World Cup.


----------



## Madiel

MacLeod said:


> What has been most noticeable is that we can all now see that there are few easy games,


there are few easy games because talent is less relevant than in the past and zone defense kills talent way more than the (in)famous Italian catenaccio did, example: in FRA-URU Mbappé got surrounded by no less than three defenders every time he got the ball, in the past such a defensive tactic would have been suicidal, it would have opened spaces for other attackers, it not happens anymore since the teams are compressed withing 20-30 meters and their positioning is rock steady, killing space seems to be every team's motto and the athleticism of the current generation of players helps it.
My distaste for modern football is even stronger than the distaste for modern music of so many classical music aficionados


----------



## Merl

Just about recovered from last night's celebrations. I rary eulogise about my country's football team (and rarely care that much, tbh) but they've done themselves and their manager proud by reaching the semis. They've been well organised, incisive and defensively superb (Stones, MacGuire and Pickford have been immense) . Anything from here is a bonus. I'll be at a friend's house in Derbyshire on Wednesday night for the semi. Should be interesting. I've not been impressed by Croatia much in this WC so if we can get at their shaky defence we have a chance.


----------



## Guest

jim prideaux said:


> as I start the day with Beethoven 2nd and 4th performed by Maag etc I reflect on an e mail from one of my brothers to the effect that if 1966 was 'made' in West Ham then it would be equally appropriate to ascribe the current success to Sunderland......not the N.E. and not Tyneside but Sunderland.......but this whole thing demands an even more partisan attitude as one of the players went to the same schools as myself, my brothers and my son.......so what you might say, and really I might be inclined to agree with you but this club (of which I am a long term season ticket holder) has done nothing but let down it's fans and embarrass us in front of the wider football world (I was even laughed at when talking to a football obsessed bar owner in Sarajevo last summer)........and I have personally been disappointed by my hometown's response to EU/Brexit referendum.......
> 
> ......so now perhaps it is an opportunity to restore a little pride in this town after all that has happened over the past few years!
> 
> (I am fully aware I have mentioned a personal perspective regarding politics, not interested in debating it, just adding to the 'narrative')


One of my primary school teachers also taught Vic Halom. You also had Ian Porterfield and Jim Montgomery. I know that 1973 was a long time ago, but it still counts.


----------



## Guest

Alan Gilzean died a couple of days ago.


----------



## elgar's ghost

England have shown something that they have had precious little of over the last fifty years - nous. Added to that, Southgate undoubtedly has the dressing room (i.e. the team are totally united behind him). Even if they bow out at the semi-final stage I take my hat off to them because before the competition started I wouldn't have given them a cat in hell's chance of getting this far, especially with a relatively inexperienced manager at the helm who didn't exactly cover himself in glory during his one and only stint in club football. This is still quite a young team - I hope the best is yet to come.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Tulse said:


> Alan Gilzean died a couple of days ago.


Yes, I saw it in the paper this morning. Hell of a player, even during his veteran years.


----------



## Guest

elgars ghost said:


> England have shown something that they have had precious little of over the last fifty years - nous. Added to that, Southgate undoubtedly has the dressing room (i.e. the team are totally united behind him). Even if they bow out at the semi-final stage I take my hat off to them because before the competition started I wouldn't have given them a cat in hell's chance of getting this far, especially with a relatively inexperienced manager at the helm who didn't exactly cover himself in glory during his one and only stint in club football. This is still quite a young team - I hope the best is yet to come.


I don't follow football much any more and I wasn't aware of most of the players names when I started watching England matches last year. Nevertheless, my impression was that they would do well, and as a result I have been watching many games in this World Cup for the first time in a couple of decades. My confidence was based partly on the team atmosphere and lack of petulant stars, but mainly that they were scoring late goals, whereas in the past decade they have been conceding late goals. This seems to me to be a key indication of a team's resilience and also the last few minutes have decided the result of many matches in past tournaments.


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## Granate

I'm really sorry for you English people.


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## hpowders

It wouldn't be an authentic World Cup if the English Team didn't choke-this one, arguably, the hardest Brexit to take, as they really did have a superb team. I underestimated them at first, but they won me over and looked like a team that would go all the way.

Anyhow, what a superlative effort by a come from nowhere Croatian squad.

Bravo Croatia!! One more time please!!!


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## Vronsky




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## elgar's ghost

Oh, well - at least it gives the Welsh and the Scots something to be happy about.


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## DaveM

Gutsy play by Croatia when they were behind 0-1 and England played far too defensively when 1-0!


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## CnC Bartok

Disappointed for the team, and for Southgate, who comes across as a genuinely decent individual. Unfortunately, the usual self-effacing English character rapidly turned into the just as usual sense of entitlement, so I am less than gutted for the nation.

A small country with a turbulent recent history, and with no sense of right to be there, has reached the final. I bet they're delighted in Zagreb! Their sense of elation must be incredible. I witnessed similar, albeit in a Less football mad nation back in 1996, when the unfancied Czechs reached the final of Euro 96. I know who I'll be supporting on Sunday....


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## Vronsky

elgars ghost said:


> Oh, well - at least it gives the Welsh and the Scots something to be happy about.


Really? That's not nice. Yugoslavia is dead for almost 30 years, but everyone in the ex-YU countries seems to be happy for the Croatian success.

About the game, I think England really fell off after Croatia tied the result. Croatia had all the initiative even after the regular 90 minutes. IMO, it was a matter of time when Croatia will take the lead in the game. Generally, I think Alli, Rashford and Sterling had a very weak performance in the tournament, especially Alli. Kane was superb, and I think Maguire and Trippier played well.


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## Guest

Vronsky said:


>


Croatia should stick to football.


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## Guest

Vronsky said:


> Really? That's not nice. Yugoslavia is dead for almost 30 years, but everyone in the ex-YU countries seems to be happy for the Croatian success.
> 
> About the game, I think England really fell off after Croatia tied the result. Croatia had all the initiative even after the regular 90 minutes. IMO, it was a matter of time when Croatia will take the lead in the game. Generally, I think Alli, Rashford and Sterling had a very weak performance in the tournament, especially Alli. Kane was superb, and I think Maguire and Trippier played well.


For the Scots, hating England is to hate themselves, since so many nationalists bottled it and voted for the Union at the refo. It is an issue of low national self esteem from both the Scots and the Welsh, and is something for the English to pity rather than be offended about.


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## Pyotr

I thought Croatia had more energy as the game went on. Even in overtime they were pressuring the ball relentlessly. But they are not dirty players like Japan, who went after the other team’s stars. 

I know that England was not really picked to go as far as they did, but I can’t help wondering why manager Gareth Southgate used the fourth substitute in overtime when he didn’t have to. Really came back to bite him.

I don’t think Croatia has much of a chance against France, but what do I know? I’ve been wrong every game so far.


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## Guest

hpowders said:


> It wouldn't be an authentic World Cup if the English Team didn't choke-this one, arguably, the hardest Brexit to take, as they really did have a superb team. I underestimated them at first, but they won me over and looked like a team that would go all the way.
> 
> Anyhow, what a superlative effort by a come from nowhere Croatian squad.
> 
> Bravo Croatia!! One more time please!!!


They didn't choke. Croatia were better.


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## hpowders

England's fourth place World Cup finish. I fear this may result in much "nil-will" among the British people.


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## hpowders

France-Croatia.

Entertaining final match.

The better team won.


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## Granate

It seemed everyone was supporting Croatia, and they played really well this match. But the first half had the luck on the French side. Really happy!

I have been trying to write my _Les Contes d'Hoffmann_ challenge review but I was having too much fun seeing Twitter and my father choking in anger!


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## Guest

hpowders said:


> France-Croatia.
> 
> Entertaining final match.
> 
> The better team won.


Yes, indeed. And, in my opinion, with the appropriate assistance of a penalty spotted by VAR.


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## Art Rock

Well done, les Bleus.

Well done, Croatia as well.
But indeed, the better team won.


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## Guest

I've enjoyed watching this World Cup so much that for the first time in decades I thought it would be good to watch the English league for a season.

Until I saw the cost: £57 per month and a few hundred up front. Jokers. 

Plan B to watch European Champions League, but I can't because I don't have the right broadband provider.

It took me an hour and a half to find this out.

What a mess.


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## Pyotr

Tulse said:


> I've enjoyed watching this World Cup so much that for the first time in decades I thought it would be good to watch the English league for a season.
> 
> Until I saw the cost: £57 per month and a few hundred up front. Jokers.


That's a lot of money. I get about 3 to 5 euro games a week( Premier league, Champions league, German league, etc.) with the comcast sports package, which is about $12 extra a month but includes other sports such as the NFL, NBA & NHL.


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