# Great historical recordings



## Xytech (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi all,

Interested on your thoughts on this one, spurred on by a recent discussion with a fellow forum member. I suppose I should begin by defining historical. I would take historical to primarily mean recordings made upwards of 30 years ago. Recordings made in an era where we didn't have days of recording and re-recording, where music with all its technical flaws but artistic merit was released, often recorded live. A time of passion and emotion, that I feel (with numerous notable exceptions) is perhaps lacking in a day and age where technical brilliance and finding ever diverse ways to interpret existing classics is all the rage. Many historical recordings are also important not just for the recording itself - but the context it was recorded in. 

I would however like to clarify this definition by noting that I think a historical recording can be one that was made last week - if the impact of the recording and what it achieves is such that we will still be talking about it in 50 years. By all means, please mention these. 

I'll start off with a few: 

Dvorák Cello Concerto - Karajan/Rostropovich (1969). This is a personal favourite - I am a huge fan of Rostropovich, and I feel the orchestra under Karajan, who I don't always agree with, really got this one right. 

Dvorák Cello Concerto -Svetlanov/Rostropovich (1968). This is a very different recording of the Dvorák. Made on the very same day Soviet tanks rolled into Prague, it can be read as a personal music protest by Rostropovich, and testament to the strength of emotion music is able to convey. 

Beethoven Symphony 3 - Toscanini (1939). This is my favourite Beethoven 3 recording. The sound quality is very average, but the emotion and excitement conveyed is unparalleled in my view! 

Shostakovich Symphony 8 - Mravinsky (1982). For the extremes of emotion, this recording cannot be overlooked! A live recording by Mravinsky who premièred Shostakovich 8 when it was first written. 

This is a very basic list, and I have only mentioned a few pieces that I feel I know well enough to write on! I have recently begun listening to the Furtwangler 1942 Beethoven Symphony 9 which I am sure qualifies here - but I don't know it quite well enough yet! 

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts. 

Cheers


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Xytech said:


> I have recently begun listening to the Furtwangler 1942 Beethoven Symphony 9 which I am sure qualifies here - but I don't know it quite well enough yet!


In my opinion, that one definitely qualifies.

I think Shostakovich's first violin concerto with David Oistrakh and his first cello concerto with Rostropovich would qualify, on Sony Classical's Masterworks Heritage label. Presented at the height of the Cold War/Space Race, the liner notes from 1960 reflect the mood of the time: "The USSR scored the artistic equivalent of a manned rocket to Mars."

Personally, I think Furtwangler's Bruckner box set, in an excellent remastering from Music & Arts, also qualifies, recorded mostly in the 1940s during a time when the orchestra's fortunes were being affected by personal losses, yet they produced gripping performances made not for the Nazi regime but for the people of Germany.


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## Xytech (Apr 7, 2011)

Thanks for your thoughts! Those collections sound right up my alley!!


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## altiste (Jun 11, 2008)

*Beethoven Quartet recorded 1981*

Here's the link to listen to a recording that's just over 30 years old, a live performance of Beethoven op 59/2 the Quatuor Français and Daniel Rémy as first violinist. Never released as a commercial recording... I transferred it from old cassette tapes, so the sound quality is not amazing, but I love the interpretation.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Fritz Reiner's 1955 stereo recording of Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra/Music For Strings, Percussion & Celesta

A little less than 30 years old is George Solti's London recording of Dvorak's New World Symphony with the CSO.

The Vaughn Williams symphonic cycle on Decca by Sir Adrian Boult

Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky series on CBS.


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

1938 Mahler 9 / Bruno Walter / VPO. This was recorded less than 2 weeks before the _anschluss_ - the takeover of Austria by Nazi Germany. The sense of foreboding and sheer emotion in the music is unparalleled by any recording of the Mahler 9 since. Within weeks, many of the Jewish members of the orchestra would flee Austria, like Walter himself. They would never play together again.

I have the 1942 Furtwangler Beethoven 9 in my collection. It is white hot in intensity, definitely a white knuckle listening experience. It is terrifying and fearsome - you will never hear a Beethoven 9 like it.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

For me, Grieg playing Grieg always gives me chills...thanks to me Peruvian granpa, I've got a poor sounding but there nonetheless Victor record of his playing something I barely even like but to know that it is him does a lot more for me than Drac play Drac; regardless of how much better the playing and recordings are.

I love those old Artur Rubinstein videos where he plays for a small group...this is my favorite of these:




*anything beyond time marking 6:20 may not be suitable for the faint of heart!*


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Richter in Sofia 1958 - Pictures at an Exhibition. Equals but doesn't surpass his recording of the same work in Prague, 1956. Amazing buildup of tension, exquisite releases - at climaxes not in the same place. As powerful as can be achieved without orgasm - and some of those may have occurred in the audiences.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Hmmm, I cannot agree with the minimum 30 year definition. I have quite a few originally released CDs of works that were first recorded in the early to mid 1980s under studio conditions (approaching this 30 year minimum "definition", which is not to say I bought them 30 years ago), that do not sound "historical" at all. These are CD quality original recordings released by leading record companies, for example Arkiv/Deutsch Grammophon's Bach orchestral works played by The English Concert/Trevor Pinnock.

By historical, and certainly as far as the record companies often take to assume, are works recorded decades ago, I would say pre-1960s/stretching it to pre-1970, or certainly before "digital recording".

I'm not into buying historical recordings (using my definition of "historical"). I don't have any but I certainly enjoy listening to them on the radio when they happen to be on, say when I'm driving or whatever.


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.3 / Horowitz / Coates (1930) - the first recording of this piece ever made. This recording positively crackles with Horowitz's trademark energy. It is a much more intense reading than the well-known later recordings with Koussevitsky and Reiner. The last movement is taken with amazing speed. Nobody plays like that any more.

(edit) Found it on Youtube! Listen to the approach to the finale, from 4:45 onwards:


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## Johnmusic (Oct 4, 2017)

The recordings of Wilhelm Backhaus (26 March 1884 – 5 July 1969) go from historical to rather modern. IMO he transcends the classical modern distinction as he is so great.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Beethoven's Fourth Piano Cto. with Schnabel/Stock/CSO.

Beethoven's Violin Cto. with Menuhin/Furtwangler/Philharmonia.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I would have thought that historical should be at least fifty years ago. Thirty seems too recent to my mind.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Hmmm, I cannot agree with the minimum 30 year definition.


Same here. If it wasn't recorded before I was born, it's not "historical".



> I would have thought that historical should be at least fifty years ago. Thirty seems too recent to my mind.


I was thinking sixty, but that's because I'm 59...


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

You'll find much of what you're looking for in this video I put on YouTube a few years ago:


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Some interesting choices in that Youtube clip. There are other conductors outside of Furtwangler who featured quite prominently. There were recordings that I'd never heard before and of those that In did it was nice to see that I actually agreed with some of them. 

A few from me.

Solomon playing Chopin on Testament

Gilels - two here. The LvB 4th PC with Ludwig and his stunning recording of the Appassionata in Moscow in 1960.

Bjorling/Merrill "O fond du temple saint" from Bizet's Pearl Fishers

Stokowski's LSO recording of The Rimsky Scheherezade

HvK Verdi Requiem with Pryce, Cossotto, Pavarotti and Ghiaurov (only available on DVD). While I thought the de Sabata was amazing this one kicks it into touch.

Rubinstein's second and third set of the Chopin Nocturnes

Richter playing Rachmaninov - the earlier the better.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> Same here. If it wasn't recorded before I was born, it's not "historical".
> 
> I was thinking sixty, but that's because I'm 59...


I'm 69 hence the fifty. :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Beethoven Symphony No. 9
Schwarzkopf, Cavelti, Haefliger, Edelmann
Philharmonia Orchestra
Wilhelm Furtwängler

Legendary Lucerne Festival performance from 1954.

Cataclysmic!!!


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Elgar conducting his two symphonies with the LSO (No.1, 1930 and No. 2, 1927)

Elgar conducting Yehudi Menuhin and the LSO in his Violin Concerto (1932)


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I avoid mono recordings of orchestral works due to sonic limitations but the recording below was my introduction to _Das Lied von der Erde_ and I still retain an affection for it - Kathleen Ferrier's _Der Abschied_ still tears at me like no other, and not just because she was nearing the end of her life.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

This a must - positively a great Schubert "Great" and being recorded in 1951 it will meet most peoples definition of "historic".

View attachment 98733


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

In the 1950s Karajan recorded (with Legge) a series of operas that defined excellence in both recording and performance:

Humperdinck - Hansel and Gretel
Puccini - Madame Butterfly
Verdi - Il trovatore and Falstaff
Strauss - Rosenkavalier and Ariadne auf Naxos.

Of course, to that you can add the famous Callas / Gobbi / De Sabata Tosca


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Of course, any of Rachmaninoff's performances of his own works must be counted 'historical'.

In addition Stravinsky's conducting of his works.


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## Nocture In Blue (Jun 3, 2015)

There's a lot of great old Maria Yudina recordings available.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Puccini: Tosca / Karjan



Donizetti / Lucia di Lammaroor



Verdi- Aida : Karajan



Verdi: Otello/ Karajan



Mahler: Das Lied / Klemperer.

Will stand the time like..... always.


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

2 colossal examples of this genre:
Fritz Kreisler & Efrem Zimbalist, together with an anonymous string quartet, playing the Bach double violin concerto (1915). Hifi it aint - one critic said it was recorded in a cigar box - but the artistry is sublime.

Act 1 of Die Walkure by Lauritz Melchior. Lotte Lehmann, Emanuel List, Bruno Walter and the Wiener Philharmonic (1935). As someone once commented on the old rec.music.classical newsgroup: when Melchior belts out "Waaaalse!" you can make out underneath it the rumble of the rear wall of the studio collapsing into rubble.


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

The problem with a subject like this is that as soon as you post one reply another one appears begging for inclusion. 

For me the performance of the Sibelius violin concerto by Ginette Neveu, with Walter Suesskind conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra is spine chilling. Apart from the passion of the performance (one commenter sais that after the recording she had blood running down her neck) the knowledge of her untimely death adds a further frisson. The recording I have is coupled with the Brahms, also wonderful.

The Sibelius was recorded in 1945 and the Brahms in 1946.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

From the New York Philharmonic Mahler Broadcasts, 1948-1982:

Das Lied von der Erde
January 18, 1948, Carnegie Hall
Kathleen Ferrier
Set Svanholm
New York Philharmonic
Bruno Walter


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

kangxi said:


> The problem with a subject like this is that as soon as you post one reply another one appears begging for inclusion.
> 
> For me the performance of the Sibelius violin concerto by Ginette Neveu, with Walter Suesskind conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra is spine chilling. Apart from the passion of the performance (one commenter sais that after the recording she had blood running down her neck) the knowledge of her untimely death adds a further frisson. The recording I have is coupled with the Brahms, also wonderful.
> 
> The Sibelius was recorded in 1945 and the Brahms in 1946.


I need to hunt these down. Thanks for heads-up.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> I need to hunt these down. Thanks for heads-up.


They're both on an EMI CD:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> They're both on an EMI CD:
> 
> View attachment 99249


Thanks Wkasimer. bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> I need to hunt these down. Thanks for heads-up.


Let us know what you think, if you manage to acquire a copy.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Why can't we move this out to the Orchestral section (or Recordings) and leave the Historical Opera Recordings (not Wagner) for a new thread? I always thought it would be useful. We all can, especially we the young people who are DDD natives, learn more about mono live recordings that leave marks on our minds or hearts.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Not much chamber music in this thread so far:


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Fritz Reiner's 1955 stereo recording of Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra/Music For Strings, Percussion & Celesta


Yep!

I recently bought the Analog Productions reissue of this recording, and it is incredible. One listen to this, and you will start to question how far recording has really come in the last 60 plus years.

Not to mention the quality of the performance.


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

I like classic recordings too. Sometimes with all the re-recordings going on these days, it is honestly safer to stick with the tried and true.

Maybe not call them historical recordings but legendary (since historical can mean many things apparently)

I love hearing other people's favorites so that I can check them out!

Here are some of mine

-Walter Gieseking playing Debussy. Two sets of of recordings; one in the late 20's and the other in the 50's --- both excellent

-Carlos Kleiber w/ Vienna PO; Beethoven symphony 5 & 7 --- hard to topple

-Rudolph Serkin / Eugene Ormandy; Schumann Piano Concerto (late 1950's) --- Blew my mind when I was a teenager

-Brahms Piano Trios (Katchen, Suk, Starker) also (Arthur Rubinstein, Szeryng, Fournier)

-...and Fritz Reiner's 1955 stereo recording of Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra/Music For Strings, Percussion & Celesta


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> Not much chamber music in this thread so far:
> 
> View attachment 99735


..and there is also the Hollywood String Quartet with Kurt Reher - my favourite version.


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## pkoi (Jun 10, 2017)

Willem Mengelberg's Mahler-recordings from the 1920's are very interesting. Mengelberg knew Mahler personally and Mahler liked his conducting and offered his symphonies to the Concertgebouw often to be performed.

here's a quotation from wikipedia:



> Mengelberg founded the long-standing Mahler tradition of the Concertgebouw. He met and befriended Gustav Mahler in 1902, and invited Mahler to conduct his Third Symphony in Amsterdam in 1903, and on 23 October 1904 Mahler led the orchestra in his Fourth Symphony twice in one concert, with no other work on the program. Mahler wrote to his wife Alma Mahler that this programming idea (presumably Mengelberg's) was a "stroke of genius." Mahler regularly visited The Netherlands to introduce his work to Dutch audiences, including also his First, Fifth, and Seventh Symphonies, as well as Das Klagende Lied and Kindertotenlieder. Mahler edited some of his symphonies while rehearsing them with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, making them sound better for the acoustics of the Concertgebouw. This is perhaps one reason that this concert hall and its orchestra are renowned for their Mahler tradition. In 1920, Mengelberg instituted a Mahler Festival in which all the composer's music was performed in nine concerts.


Here's his recording of the adagietto from Mahler's 5th. Notice the quite fast tempo (might be because the limitations of records back then) and how they play almost everything with portamento. I'm so used to Karajan's and Bernstein's versions of this piece, that Mengelberg's version sounds a bit odd but it propably mirrors the orchestral sound-ideal of the early 20th century.


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## pkoi (Jun 10, 2017)

Early recordings of Sibelius's lieds might also reveal something about the performance traditions of that era. I will include here two examples "Svarta rosor" performed by Maikki Järnefelt, the wife of Sibelius's brother-in-law and "var det ett dröm?" by Ida Ekman, the personal favourite singer of Sibelius. Both of these performances take the rhytmic notation of the music very freely, especially "Svarta rosor". That's something one doesn't hear so often in modern recordings, which tend to be very loyal to the score. As in my earlier post, my ears are so used to the later conventions that I have a hard time really enjoying these. Nevertheless, interesting documents, both of them.


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## Johnmusic (Oct 4, 2017)

*I find these 2 Threads cover lots of ground I like and can cover much other Classical music.* :wave:

1- Thread: Opera Youtube thread 
2- Thread: Current Listening Vol IV 

Regards- John


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Many great ones in this thread already, but a nearly endless list of more that haven't been mentioned yet. Here are some of my favorites, circa 1950 to the early 60s, so still decent sound quality, but not all in stereo:
Berlioz, Les nuits d'ete, Crespin, Ansermet OSR;
Rachmaninov, Symphony no. 2, Sanderling, Leningrad SO;
Mozart, sting quintets, Griller SQ;
Bach, St. Matthew Passion, Munchinger, Ameling, Wunderlich, Pears, Prey, Hoffgen, Krause;
Stravinsky, L'histoire du soldat, Octet, Schneider et al.
Mozart, last 6 symphonies, Beecham RPO;
Beethoven, string quartets, Budapest SQ (Library of Congress cycle);
Debussy, L'apres-midi d'u faun, Stokowski and his orchestra (really the NY Philharmonic);
Beethoven and Brahms violin sonatas, Szeryng and Rubinstein;
Bach cello suites, Starker;
Bartok, string quartets, Juilliard SQ.
Mahler, Das lied von der erde, Walter, Miller, Hafliger, NYP;
Sibelius, violin concerto, Oistrakh, Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra
Strauss, tone poems, Reiner, CSO.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

How's 1923 for historial?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> How's 1923 for historial?


This was actually 1906, not 1926. Adelina Patti was 63 years old. In her prime Verdi called her "the greatest singer in the world." As a girl she sang for Rossini, and she later performed for President and Mrs. Lincoln at the White House. She sang "Home Seet Home and moved the Lincolns, who had just lost a child, to tears. This is my favorite performance of "Ah, non credea," and her recording of "Home Sweet Home" is surely the most expressive and touching ever recorded.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Way too many to list, but some favorites:

Opera arias - Caruso on Prima Voce - These restorations are amazing. There was no one like Caruso 

Beethoven 9th - Furtwängler wartime 

Bach St Matthew Passion - Mengelberg 

Beethoven Piano sonatas - Schnabel

Bach Cello suites - Casals

Mahler Das Lied von der Erfe - Ferrier/Walter live 1952 concert after the Decca taping

Puccini Tosca - Callas/De Sabata

Brahms Violin concerto - Huberman

Rachmaninoff Piano concerto No 3 - Horowitz/Barbirolli 

Wagner Die Walkure Act 1 - Lehmann/Melchior/Walter

Chopin Mazurkas, Op 55/2 nocturne - Ignaz Friedman

Beethoven String quartets - Busch Quartet


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Vegh Quartet's 1954 Bartok String Quartet recordings
Vaclav Talich's Dvorak symphony recordings
Bela Bartok/Benny Goodman/ Szigeti - Contrasts 1940


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Stravinsky Symphony in Three Movements/Symphony of Psalms 1947

Schnabel's Beethoven piano sonatas

Debussy Nocturnes & Children's Corner Suite from Stokowski circa 1950








Ibert Escale from Stokowski about the same period








Beethoven Piano Trios Op. 70 Istomin, Schneider, Casals


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

larold said:


> Stravinsky Symphony in Three Movements/Symphony of Psalms 1947
> 
> Schnabel's Beethoven piano sonatas
> 
> ...


Which conductor on the Stravinsky? Ansermet?


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