# The Mozart Opera Thread



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

In my opinion Mozart was the greatest of all opera composer. His works breathe sheer musical genius with a melodic gift that is unsurpassed. However, the purpose of the thread is not to debate this but to comment on operas or parts of operas we particularly enjoy, together with notable recordings - audio and video - of his works. Please celebrate Wolfie the operatic genius!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Although not my favorite opera composer he sure grabs me with The Don! A work of pure perfection.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

Brilliant idea for a thread!

Favourite act: Nozze act III (Crudel, Hai gia vinta la causa, Riconosci, Dove sono, Sull'aria)

Favourite Nozze recording: http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Nozze-Figaro-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B0000041OU (Solti, Te Kanawa, Ramey, Allen, Popp, von Stade) Despite this, my favourite Figaro may be Raimondi

Most underrated duet: Crudel

Most underrated opera: Seraglio - the singing is so challenging and the music among the most beautiful ever composed

Wolfie addiction shows no signs of abating!


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

DavidA - fantastic avatar, by the way!


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

I totally agree that Mozart was the greatest of opera composers.
He wrote some splendid arias but the aria is not my favourite element of opera (even less so the chorus). Mozart wrote the best ensemble elements ( duets, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets ...) that have ever been heard. Probably the closest another composer has come is the third act quartet in Rigoletto. Unlike the aria these ensemble elements do move the action forward (like recitative) and the genius of Mozart was his ability to have several singers, or groups of singers, express differing emotions simultaneously and each heard and understood separately by the audience.
Mozart also wrote the best overtures to his operas. Always a perfect length and a perfect setup for the delights to come.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

DonAlfonso said:


> Mozart also wrote the best overtures to his operas. Always a perfect length and a perfect setup for the delights to come.


The overtures are my least favorite part, actually. To me, they all sound the same. Though don't get me wrong, I love Mozart and the Marriage of Figaro is a work of genius. All the music is so fitting, and it's just amazingly entertaining.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2015)

ma7730 said:


> The overtures are my least favorite part, actually. To me, they all sound the same. Though don't get me wrong, I love Mozart and the Marriage of Figaro is a work of genius. All the music is so fitting, and it's just amazingly entertaining.


A great example of how subjective taste is - the overtures are, in my view, all brilliant and distinct

On the subject of Nozze, does anyone else have experience in accompanying opera novices? I always tell first-timers not to get too bogged down in the plot as it can really distract them from the music, which is the best ever written


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

DavidA said:


> In my opinion Mozart was the greatest of all opera composer. His works breathe sheer musical genius with a melodic gift that is unsurpassed. However, the purpose of the thread is not to debate this but to comment on operas or parts of operas we particularly enjoy, together with notable recordings - audio and video - of his works. Please celebrate Wolfie the operatic genius!


I know I said I wasn't talking to you again after your insult in another thread, but I can't hold a grudge. I simply have to agree. It's not just the big four or five or six or seven (depending on whether you include Abduction from the Seraglio and Idomeneo and Clemency of Titus) - the whole damn lot, even the juvenilia, are worth a listen at least once. 
I've got the bicentennary set of DVDs, and I might listen to some with my eyes shut because the productions irritate me, but the music ranges from very good to entrancing.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

A favorite that always springs to mind is the duet _Fra gli'amplessi_ from *Cosi fan Tutte*, especially in the Bohm recording with Schwarzkopf and Kraus, who make of it quite the erotic affair it should be.

Then there is the wonderful _Soave sia il vento_ from the same opera.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> A favorite that always springs to mind is the duet _Fra gli'amplessi_ from *Cosi fan Tutte*, especially in the Bohm recording with Schwarzkopf and Kraus, who make of it quite the erotic affair it should be.
> 
> Then there is the wonderful _Soave sia il vento_ from the same opera.


Cosi is a constantly inspired work. Always amazes me that there are absolutely no dull patches. Mozart gives one startling idea and melody after another. Incredible! I love that duet where Ferrando finally seduces Florilligi. My favourite is Schwarzkopf and Simoneau on the Karajan set although della Casa and Demote on the old Bohm set (horribly cut but magic) are terrific too.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

If I need to single out only one number from his opera, I will pick this one:

_



_


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Some of my favorites (just based on the sheer beauty of the melodies)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Great! And what about this from Figaro!






Did any other composer spin such wondrous melodies? And the develop them with such skill to reflect the feelings of the character?


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

Greg Mitchell beat me to it, but I even wrote about it on my blog (see below), my absolute highlight clearly Soave sia il vento.

http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/10/may-the-wind-be-gentle-nezet-seguins-cosi-fan-tutte/

http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/09/top-10-music-that-gives-me-goose-bumps/

But all other operas are equally brilliant. I'm a big big fan.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Musicophile said:


> Greg Mitchell beat me to it, but I even wrote about it on my blog (see below), my absolute highlight clearly Soave sia il vento.
> 
> http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/10/may-the-wind-be-gentle-nezet-seguins-cosi-fan-tutte/
> 
> ...


Oh wonderful!± Was anything more beautiful ever written. I have this one on DVD






cracking performance from Glyndebourne 2006


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

Ok I have to admit, while I love Mozart's music in general, and his great piano concertos are some of my favorite works by any composer, a lot of his operas leave me somewhat cold. And that includes Don Giovanni.  Maybe that has partly to do with the recitative that kind of drags on to me. At the end of the day yes they have some lovely arias and melodies, but I just don't find myself connecting with the stories and characters or finding them very exciting. Oh well. C'est la vie!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just listening to the amazing Don Giovanni conducted by Karajan at Saltzburg in 1960. It is absolutely riveting with a cast that includes Schwartskopf , Proce, Waechter, etc.. Got it for about £4. The recording is reasonable mono. The performance absolutely whizzes along quite unlike Karajan's later studio effort. Really worth hearing.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

It seems a constant on these threads that people complain about recitatives. This suggests to me that they are just listening mostly for the tunes (including harmonies etc) but in a way that would make absolutely no sense to Mozart. He wrote them as dramas, to be understood as stories that have a context. He is a genius at moving the story along in the ensembles, but the recitatives are still the main way and, as such, are essential. If listeners can't be bothered to follow the action, including the dialogue, then that's a matter for them - but just recognise that the inadequacy is yours, not Mozart's.
It's like trying to enjoy Shakespeare by listening only to the soliloquies and complaining about dialogue in between.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Steatopygous said:


> It seems a constant on these threads that people complain about recitatives. This suggests to me that they are just listening mostly for the tunes (including harmonies etc) but in a way that would make absolutely no sense to Mozart. He wrote them as dramas, to be understood as stories that have a context. He is a genius at moving the story along in the ensembles, but the recitatives are still the main way and, as such, are essential. If listeners can't be bothered to follow the action, including the dialogue, then that's a matter for them - but just recognise that the inadequacy is yours, not Mozart's.
> It's like trying to enjoy Shakespeare by listening only to the soliloquies and complaining about dialogue in between.


Mozart was such an incredible genius at writing recitatives. You only have to compare his own with Sussmyr's in Clemens da Tito to see just what he put into the drama. Sadly he never got round to writing his own for much of Tito.


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

Steatopygous said:


> If listeners can't be bothered to follow the action, including the dialogue, then that's a matter for them - but just recognise that the inadequacy is yours, not Mozart's.


That may or may not apply to others, but it does not apply to me. Unfortunately I find recitative to be mannered and unappealing. So because this is the main way the story is moved along, maybe it makes sense that I have difficulty connecting with them in the same way I do with the stories and story telling methods of other composers.

And I never suggested there was a deficiency with Mozart. I understand that he was composing in the standard idiom of his time. Its just not my favorite idiom.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> It seems a constant on these threads that people complain about recitatives. This suggests to me that they are just listening mostly for the tunes (including harmonies etc) but in a way that would make absolutely no sense to Mozart. He wrote them as dramas, to be understood as stories that have a context. He is a genius at moving the story along in the ensembles, but the recitatives are still the main way and, as such, are essential.


Some of us think they are dull to listen to and you will not convince us otherwise and what Mozart thought does make the experience of them less dull because we are not Mozart and we don´t have to agree with Mozart on everything. The thread is the Mozart opera thread not the Da Ponte opera thread therefore it is natural that the focus is on the music. I prefer to like an opera despite of what they are singing and not because of what they are singing an opera is good when a a boring and uninteresting drama is made to not being boring and uninteresting but exciting and interesting.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I can't stand the recitatives. I know the story. 
I skip them or program them out.

Even Mozart realized they are a drag.
That's why he was so proud of the last 20 mins. of Act 2 of Figaro.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Some of us think they are dull to listen to and you will not convince us otherwise and what Mozart thought does make the experience of them less dull because we are not Mozart and we don´t have to agree with Mozart on everything. The thread is the Mozart opera thread not the Da Ponte opera thread therefore it is natural that the focus is on the music. I prefer to like an opera despite of what they are singing and not because of what they are singing an opera is good when a a boring and uninteresting drama is made to not being boring and uninteresting but exciting and interesting.


I have no interest in convincing you; you are fully entitled to find them dull. And I am fully entitled to think that therefore your understanding and appreciation of Mozart is inadequate. I'm not quite sure I follow the next part: you like an opera despite what they are singing, not because of what they are singing. Apart from being a little strange to not care what they are singing, you should (it seems to me) by that logic appreciate the genius of the recitatives. But I suspect I have not understood you fully.

PS. The recitatives are, strictly speaking, music, which was written by Mozart. It is perfectly fine to discuss them on a Mozart thread and, in fact, I was not the one who raised the subject. I entirely agree with DavidA above that they, too, show Mozart's genius.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Itullian said:


> I can't stand the recitatives. I know the story.
> I skip them or program them out.
> 
> Even Mozart realized they are a drag.
> That's why he was so proud of the last 20 mins. of Act 2 of Figaro.


This is a non-sequitur. Anyone would be proud to have written Act 2 of Figaro. But that doesn't mean he thought other parts of his own operas were "a drag". Can you provide any evidence for this, anything from his letters for example?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> I have no interest in convincing you; you are fully entitled to find them dull. And I am fully entitled to think that therefore your understanding and appreciation of Mozart is inadequate. .


Just because I don´t like to hear them and you like to hear them it does not make my appreciation inadequate only different.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Steatopygous said:


> This is a non-sequitur. Anyone would be proud to have written Act 2 of Figaro. But that doesn't mean he thought other parts of his own operas were "a drag". Can you provide any evidence for this, anything from his letters for example?


Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:

In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, *to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives,* and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Steatopygous said:


> This is a non-sequitur. Anyone would be proud to have written Act 2 of Figaro. But that doesn't mean he thought other parts of his own operas were "a drag". Can you provide any evidence for this, anything from his letters for example?


Seems like Itullian's 'evidence' comes from Amadeus, where Mozart talks about there being no recitatives in the finale; but that hardly bears resemblance to what the real Mozart thought. According to Michael Kelly, the F major sextet, 'Riconoci in quest' amplesso', where it is discovered that Marcellina and Bartolo are Figaro's parents, is the number Mozart was most proud of from Figaro. It's one of the best operatic ensembles anywhere and the way Mozart uses the tempo and rhythm of the music to portray the thoughts and feelings of all six characters is ingenious.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Itullian said:


> Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


The synthesis of accelerating complexity and symmetrical resolution which was at the heart of Mozart's style enabled him to find a musical equivalent for the great stage works which were his dramatic models. The Marriage of Figaro in Mozart's version is the dramatic equal, and in many respects the superior, of Beaumarchais's work.[29]

This is demonstrated in the closing numbers of all four acts: *as the drama escalates, Mozart eschews recitativi altogether and opts for increasingly sophisticated writing,* bringing his characters on stage, revelling in a complex weave of solo and ensemble singing in multiple combinations, and climaxing in seven- and eight-voice tutti for acts 2 and 4.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Itullian said:


> Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, *to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives,* and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


its common sense


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Steatopygous said:


> It seems a constant on these threads that people complain about recitatives. This suggests to me that they are just listening mostly for the tunes (including harmonies etc) but in a way that would make absolutely no sense to Mozart. He wrote them as dramas, to be understood as stories that have a context. He is a genius at moving the story along in the ensembles, but the recitatives are still the main way and, as such, are essential. If listeners can't be bothered to follow the action, including the dialogue, then that's a matter for them - but just recognise that the inadequacy is yours, not Mozart's.
> It's like trying to enjoy Shakespeare by listening only to the soliloquies and complaining about dialogue in between.


It seems to me when someone expresses a preference against a piece of a composers' work, there is need to discuss that it's the listener's "fault" or "inadequacy" not the composers. Why does there have to be any fault or blame at all.

i *gasp* delete out most of recitative from my iPod altogether. I listen to music to enjoy myself, my brain is running in overdrive all day long at work. You say that it would be be difficult to enjoy Mozart opera without recitative.....yet I seemed to enjoy his opera enough to buy all of them and his concert arias besides


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Itullian said:


> The synthesis of accelerating complexity and symmetrical resolution which was at the heart of Mozart's style enabled him to find a musical equivalent for the great stage works which were his dramatic models. The Marriage of Figaro in Mozart's version is the dramatic equal, and in many respects the superior, of Beaumarchais's work.[29]
> 
> This is demonstrated in the closing numbers of all four acts: as the drama escalates, Mozart eschews recitativi altogether and opts for increasingly sophisticated writing, bringing his characters on stage, revelling in a complex weave of solo and ensemble singing in multiple combinations, and climaxing in seven- and eight-voice tutti for acts 2 and 4.


The copied and pasted text talks about the superiority of Mozart's operas over his dramatic models and in da Ponte's words, his avoidance of _long recitative_. It doesn't say Mozart thought recitatives were a 'drag' or that he was proud of the second act finale _because_ of the lack of recitative. To Mozart they were an important device in connecting action to sentiment, advancing the story, and character exposition which is why his use of them is so much more varied and imaginative than the operas he was influenced by : the obbligato recitative for long sections of dialog in Cosi, as in his earlier opera seria Idomeneo(also even here the secco recitative in this opera contains imaginative writing: the bass outlining a descending chromatic fourth in one part), and use of measured recitative, with a set tempo and full accompaniment that blurs the line between recitative and formal number. He also connects musical ideas from a recitative to the aria or ensemble it introduces, as in Don Giovanni, where Zerlina's sings a melodic line similar to the one in the later duet "La ci darem la mano." I'm not even confident that most who complain about his recitatives actually realize when they're listening to the recitative accompagnato versus an actual aria or ensemble. Many, for instance, don't realize the dramatic opening music to the Queen of the Night's first appearance(o zittre nicht) is all recitative.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

it common sense


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Itullian said:


> it common sense


Well.....alright, then.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I feel that Mozart did as good a job with recitative secco (continuo only, no orchestra) as anyone. No one expected those passages to be great music, most of the harmonic progressions were highly conventional (though Mozart could be predictably inventive in that respect), and the composer was doing his job if he kept things moving and enabled the singers to get the words out while they acted realistically onstage. Listening at home, I get impatient with it; in the theater, less so, but I prefer either through-composed dialogue or spoken dialogue - both of which can also be found in Mozart's operas, by the way. Just not often enough. 

Once, when I was probably twelve or thirteen, I was watching a performance of _Figaro_ on TV, and my father, who liked opera only when it consisted of tuneful arias sung by Caruso or Roberta Peters, irascibly yelled out "Where the hell are the arias in this opera? All I hear is jabbering!" I replied, meekly, "There will be some. You have to be patient." "Well I don't have that much patience!"

He could be rough on Wagner too ("What's that woman screaming about?" "It all sounds like funeral music!"). T'was a hard upbringing for a young operaphile.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

trazom said:


> The copied and pasted text talks about the superiority of Mozart's operas over his dramatic models and in da Ponte's words, his avoidance of _long recitative_. It doesn't say Mozart thought recitatives were a 'drag' or that he was proud of the second act finale _because_ of the lack of recitative. To Mozart they were an important device in connecting action to sentiment, advancing the story, and character exposition which is why his use of them is so much more varied and imaginative than the operas he was influenced by : the obbligato recitative for long sections of dialog in Cosi, as in his earlier opera seria Idomeneo, and use of measured recitative, with a set tempo and full accompaniment that blurs the line between recitative and formal number. He also connects musical ideas from a recitative to the aria or ensemble it introduces, as in Don Giovanni, where Zerlina's sings a melodic line similar to the one in the later duet "La ci darem la mano." *I'm not even confident that most who complain about his recitatives actually realize when they're listening to the recitative accompagnato versus an actual aria or ensemble.*


Very good analysis.

Why don't you ask them? They may surprise you.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Itullian said:


> Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, *to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives,* and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


DaPonte..........


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

How many people know that Da Ponte ran a grocery store in Pennsylvania?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

KenOC said:


> How many people know that Da Ponte ran a grocery store in Pennsylvania?


Pastrami on rye, please.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Sonata said:


> It seems to me when someone expresses a preference against a piece of a composers' work, there is need to discuss that it's the listener's "fault" or "inadequacy" not the composers. Why does there have to be any fault or blame at all.
> 
> i *gasp* delete out most of recitative from my iPod altogether. I listen to music to enjoy myself, my brain is running in overdrive all day long at work. You say that it would be be difficult to enjoy Mozart opera without recitative.....yet I seemed to enjoy his opera enough to buy all of them and his concert arias besides


The answer to that is one most here will disagree with, and that is fine. When it comes to opera, I am unashamedly elitist. I do not think that any opinion is as good as any other. I think some opinions are lazy and ignorant and not worth bothering with. I do not put you in this category, by the way, but when someone comes on and says "I don't like Mozart, I've never bothered listening to him", I have no interest in conversation with such a person.

There are people who know far more about opera than me, and people who know far less. I have spent 40 years of pretty strong commitment. That doesn't matter - any interlocutors will still accept or reject what I say for a variety of reasons, including my lucidity and their ability to hear. What does matter is that one can educate oneself, one can improve one's taste and discrimination and understanding. It is not purely subjective, as the lazy and ignorant always claim - we have canons of better and worse by which we judge music. Whether you _like something is different; that is subjective and no one can tell you, "no you are wrong, you don't like that."

Why do we have to have blame? We don't always, or even mostly, but sometimes ignorance is wilful and culpable. Again, I am not saying that is the case here, but I am arguing for taking the composer seriously enough to listen properly. Playing it as background music is not taking the composer seriously, and nor is ripping off bleeding chunks of music if that is all one does and never concentrates entirely on the whole work. Of course that requires effort, and not everyone is able or willing to put in the work.

You listening to Mozart operas as background music while you conduct your daily life - if that is what you are doing - means you will never have the same grasp as someone who consciously sits down and concentrates (which I gather you actually do when you listen to Wagner). Mozart operas are worthy of a music-lover's full attention. Other people are perfectly entitled, as they have already claimed, to think and do as they like in relation to Mozart operas and utterly reject what I say. And I, as I have already claimed, am perfectly entitled to hold their views in contempt. Do not take from that, however, that I hold my interlocutors in this thread in contempt; I have not said that._


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Itullian said:


> Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, *to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives,* and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


Two obvious ripostes: First, these are Da Ponte's words rather than Mozart's. Second, there is no reason to assume he meant their own operas as examples requiring rescuing, as opposed to many contemporaries.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

*Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:*

In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Itullian said:


> *Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:*
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


How long did he mean by "long" here? Recitative is a necessary part of opera and, in the right hands, such as Mozart's, as fine an expressive tool as aria.

At any rate, he isn't clearly criticizing the recitatives in Mozart's operas at all.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> How long did he mean by "long" here? Recitative is a necessary part of opera and, in the right hands, such as Mozart's, as fine an expressive tool as aria.
> 
> At any rate, he isn't clearly criticizing the recitatives in Mozart's operas at all.


It's from his thoughts on Nozze di Figaro, Wiki


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Itullian said:


> It's from his thoughts on Nozze di Figaro, Wiki


Yes, where he talks of writing the libretto such that long passages of recitative do not occur.

It doesn't contain any obvious critical remarks about Mozart's recitative, either in Figaro or elsewhere.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

anyway back to the original discussion of Mozart opera appreciation: I love his operas. Hard to say which is my favorite. There is so much melody packed into Cosi, it is beautiful beyond belief. and while Don Carlos is currently my favorite opera, Mozart's Don held that distinction for a long time. Magic Flute I was lukewarm to at first but wove it's magic around me with successive listens. With regards to his other operas Il Re Pastore is beautiful.

Even before I became a true opera fan, I'd find myself turning to his opera music as most of my favorite music in his ouvre


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Magic Flute is mine.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Magic Flute is mine.


Presumably Klemperer's version with no dialogue?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Presumably Klemperer's version with no dialogue?


I like the Klemperer _Zauberflote_ for a number of reasons, and the absence of dialogue is one of them. I've known the opera for decades, and have absolutely no interest in ever hearing the dialogue again - all those cute characters saying silly things. Whenever the Met broadcasts it I always struggle with myself, hoping the singing will make up for the annoying talk and make it worth my while to listen. Seeing an opera in the theater or on video is completely different - there I want the whole thing for the story - but when I want music, and I know the opera already, I have little tolerance for talk except for a few words here and there at key dramatic moments.

For me, operas with spoken dialogue, and Baroque and Classical operas with lots of recitative, are best heard as "highlights." Not knowing how many years I have left on this earth, I don't want to spend them listening to chatter. There's too much real music wanting my attention.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> *Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:*
> 
> In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]


It must realised here that da Ponte was talking in the context of opera seria, which was the fashionable opera of the day, and in which the recitative (written by composers with a fraction of Mozart's genius) were often long and tedious. The point da Ponte is making is that Mozart was breaking away from that tradition. We sometimes fail to realise what a revolutionary work Figaro was (a point Jacobs makes in the booklet to his recording) in that it broke away from the opera seria model. Here da Ponte is not denigrating Mozart's recitatives but saying what a revolutionary work of genius Figaro was. And to have 20 minutes of unbroken as the end of the first act was compketely revolutionary. Nothing like it had been heard before. The work is completely extraordinary and shows Mozart emerging as the greatest (imo) opera composer.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I like the Klemperer _Zauberflote_ for a number of reasons, and the absence of dialogue is one of them. I've known the opera for decades, and have absolutely no interest in ever hearing the dialogue again - all those cute characters saying silly things. Whenever the Met broadcasts it I always struggle with myself, hoping the singing will make up for the annoying talk and make it worth my while to listen. *Seeing an opera in the theater or on video is completely different - there I want the whole thing for the story - but when I want music, and I know the opera already,* I have little tolerance for talk except for a few words here and there at key dramatic moments.
> 
> For me, operas with spoken dialogue, and Baroque and Classical operas with lots of recitative, are best heard as "highlights." Not knowing how many years I have left on this earth, I don't want to spend them listening to chatter. There's too much real music wanting my attention.


I think this is a valid point in that we remember Mozart wrote for the stage where there was a drama going on. There was no such thing as recording! Hence the dialogue is necessary in a staged performance as it is not on a recording. As much of the dialogue to the Flute is nonsensical anyway it is better left out in an audio presentation. Jacobs included the lot on his recording albeit dramatised with musical effects. After a couple of times listening I found my fingers going to the skip button on the CD player!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> How many people know that Da Ponte ran a grocery store in Pennsylvania?


He was a lot of things, from priest to womaniser. A very colourful character. Anthony Holden has written a very interesting biography called 'The man who wrote Mozart' which is well worth a read. Above all da Ponte was a genius as libretto writer and we can be thankful to him for providing the libretti which gave us Mozart's three greatest operas, which many would view as the greatest ever written. Boito did the same for Verdi and he produced his two greatest operas, second only to Mozart imo.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Steatopygous said:


> You listening to Mozart operas as background music while you conduct your daily life - if that is what you are doing - means you will never have the same grasp as someone who consciously sits down and concentrates (which I gather you actually do when you listen to Wagner). Mozart operas are worthy of a music-lover's full attention. Other people are perfectly entitled, as they have already claimed, to think and do as they like in relation to Mozart operas and utterly reject what I say. And I, as I have already claimed, am perfectly entitled to hold their views in contempt. Do not take from that, however, that I hold my interlocutors in this thread in contempt; I have not said that.


No, I don't listen to opera as background music generally. Whether it's Verdi, Mozart, Wagner, Puccini, or otherwise. I have one good so,I'd hour generally where I can have focused listening, on my work commute. And that hour is fairly often devoted to an opera (or perhaps Mahler, Brahms, or Bruckner). Focused listening to be sure, simply eliminating any parts of the music I may not care for


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Sonata said:


> No, I don't listen to opera as background music generally. Whether it's Verdi, Mozart, Wagner, Puccini, or otherwise. I have one good so,I'd hour generally where I can have focused listening, on my work commute. And that hour is fairly often devoted to an opera (or perhaps Mahler, Brahms, or Bruckner). Focused listening to be sure, simply eliminating any parts of the music I may not care for


What if it's a work you don't know well? How do you know what to eliminate? And how can you hope to come to a more mature understanding of a work if you only listen to the "good bits"? Or does that not matter- do you simply listen for the pleasure of the moment? Most people do, after all. 
I hope your morning commute is not a train, as mine is - impossible for me to listen to classical music because of the dynamic range.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Well my first listens through I listen to everything. I obviously can't know what I will or won't like until I've heard it. And sometimes after I've let a work "rest" I may revisit it down the line to determine if my opinion has changed

And I will say I do enjoy recitative more with the fortepiano than continuo or harpsichord.

My work commute is quite pleasant, I drive my own vehicle, lots of wooded area, pretty scenery. Winter drive isn't so pleasant with snow and ice, but I've about two months before I have that to contend with


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Well, please don't think I'm being critical because you clearly love music and take it seriously, and it's not for me to tell you how to listen. But don't you think you might find the recitative more relevant if you knew what it was saying and how it was advancing the story? And if that is true of the recitative, might it not also be true of the entire work - that you would get more out of it if you knew what was being said/sung? I think I've said all I can say on this subject now.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I know enough of the plot for it to serve my particular needs.As I know very little Italian listening to the complete piece will not achieve your recommended goal unless I'm reading libretto or watching video or live. Opera videos appeal to me only occasionally, though I will read libretto if the it interests me enough. I've not had opportunity to see opera live though I hope to do so down the line. 

I feel my listening habits suit me well for the time being. They have evolved in the past and they may well do do in the future. I let this happen organically rather than trying to force appreciation which tends to have the opposite effect


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

DavidA said:


> Presumably Klemperer's version with no dialogue?


Of course. .....................


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Of course. .....................


I've got a highlights disc. The women are superb


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Judging by the plot for _L'oca del Cairo _I'm glad Mozart abandoned it - this could seriously have damaged his credibility:

_'The title is usually translated as The Goose of Cairo but sometimes as The Cairo Goose. Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.'_

I know it's supposed to be a comedy but I can't think of a plot more unworthy of Mozart's talent. I'm guessing that he was desperate for a libretto at short notice hence the fact that he actually started writing the music - God knows how bad the ones he passed over must have been. :lol:


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## Fat Bob (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm constantly amazed by the music that Mozart wrote for operas which were abandoned and not performed in his lifetime, like this one:





This glorious melody was never heard because Mozart abandoned this work to write Idomeneo instead. And in spite of all the operas he wrote after this, he never felt the need to reuse this melody, one many composers would have given their eye teeth for. Genius, pure genius.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> Judging by the plot for _L'oca del Cairo _I'm glad Mozart abandoned it - this could seriously have damaged his credibility:
> 
> _'The title is usually translated as The Goose of Cairo but sometimes as The Cairo Goose. Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.'_
> 
> I know it's supposed to be a comedy but I can't think of a plot more unworthy of Mozart's talent. I'm guessing that he was desperate for a libretto at short notice hence the fact that he actually started writing the music - God knows how bad the ones he passed over must have been. :lol:


That sounds hilarious. That could have been the funniest opera ever. Give it to some bad composer and it could become The Room of opera!:lol:


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

This one, from _Le Nozze di Figaro_ is so beautiful, but suprisingly not as famous as most of his other arias:


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Someone already brought up Zaide which is the greatest of his earlier operas, even though it's incomplete; just missing an overture and one more act, but full of so much great music. Rosen said it was really "too great to be called a fragment." "Tiger!" is another great aria from the same opera: 




My favorite selections from his first truly great opera Idomeneo--one he never surpassed, and apparently still isn't adequately appreciated as reflected in our recommended operas list--in this most richly scored opera:

Ilia's Second Act aria "Se Il Padre Perdei," an extremely intricate and beautiful aria known for its woodwind solos that practically doubles as a sinfonia concertante for bassoon, oboe, flute, and horn:






also her third act aria:






There's much more from the same opera, but I think they're more effective when heard in context, especially that quartet from the third act.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

trazom said:


> Someone already brought up Zaide which is the greatest of his earlier operas, even though it's incomplete; just missing an overture and one more act, but full of so much great music. Rosen said it was really "too great to be called a fragment." "Tiger!" is another great aria from the same opera:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the statement that he never surpassed Idomeneo is one open to question!


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

DavidA said:


> I think the statement that he never surpassed Idomeneo is one open to question!


I think much of what is written on TC in general is open to question; but I don't care, anyone's free to question what I wrote. This thread did invite us to comment on our favorite operas of his, but I know my enthusiasm for this work isn't exactly unique. Brahms called Idomeneo "in general, a miracle" and Alfred Einstein said it was such a work that even a genius of Mozart's caliber could've written only once in his life and the more I learn about, listen to, and play the music from the opera, the more I see what an extraordinary and deep work it really is.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Let's face it, when it comes to Mozart operas by the big companies there are the big 3 (Figaro, Giovanni, Magic Flute), with Cosi fan tutte one level back, and then probably Abduction from the Seraglio (I am talking performances, not merit, though they are not unrelated). 
This side of bel canto, Verdi, Wagner, verismo etc, we do not find opera seria so approachable. So Idomeneo and Clemenza di Tito, both wonderful works, have slidden into relative obscurity.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> Let's face it, when it comes to Mozart operas by the big companies there are the big 3 (Figaro, Giovanni, Magic Flute), with Cosi fan tutte one level back, and then probably Abduction from the Seraglio (I am talking performances, not merit, though they are not unrelated).
> This side of bel canto, Verdi, Wagner, verismo etc, we do not find opera seria so approachable. So Idomeneo and Clemenza di Tito, both wonderful works, have slidden into relative obscurity.


Why did you not mention Don Giovanni?


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Why did you not mention Don Giovanni?


Look again, and I think you'll find I did. The big 3 (Figaro, *Giovanni*, Magic Flute).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Steatopygous said:


> Let's face it, when it comes to Mozart operas by the big companies there are the big 3 (Figaro, Giovanni, Magic Flute), with Cosi fan tutte one level back, and then probably Abduction from the Seraglio (I am talking performances, not merit, though they are not unrelated).
> This side of bel canto, Verdi, Wagner, verismo etc, we do not find opera seria so approachable. So Idomeneo and Clemenza di Tito, both wonderful works, have slid into relative obscurity.


I wouldn't say they're obscure. Both works are performed with regularity, just not as much as the other mature Mozart operas. Anyway, two points with regard to the genre of opera seria: first, the genre has experienced quite a revival as a result of the renewed interest in Baroque opera, particularly Handel, so that its conventions are now more familiar. Finally, Idomeneo in particular is distinguished by how much it destroys or does not follow the conventional patterns, from its abundance of accompanied recitative to the way aria, recitative, and ensemble are dovetailed onto each other to create the kind of coherent dramatic flow that operagoers seek in the later Mozart buffa works.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> Look again, and I think you'll find I did. The big 3 (Figaro, *Giovanni*, Magic Flute).


Sorry I was really tired


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

trazom said:


> I think much of what is written on TC in general is open to question; but I don't care, anyone's free to question what I wrote. This thread did invite us to comment on our favorite operas of his, but I know my enthusiasm for this work isn't exactly unique. Brahms called Idomeneo "in general, a miracle" and Alfred Einstein said it was such a work that even a genius of Mozart's caliber could've written only once in his life and the more I learn about, listen to, and play the music from the opera, the more I see what an extraordinary and deep work it really is.


My friend you are free to express your opinion. And many thanks for it. It's some while since Idomeneo was in the CD player and I think I'll now listen with renewed interest.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Sorry I was really tired


Think nothing of it. Which of us hasn't leapt in a trifle prematurely?


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Mahlerian said:


> I wouldn't say they're obscure. Both works are performed with regularity, just not as much as the other mature Mozart operas. Anyway, two points with regard to the genre of opera seria: first, the genre has experienced quite a revival as a result of the renewed interest in Baroque opera, particularly Handel, so that its conventions are now more familiar. Finally, Idomeneo in particular is distinguished by how much it destroys or does not follow the conventional patterns, from its abundance of accompanied recitative to the way aria, recitative, and ensemble are dovetailed onto each other to create the kind of coherent dramatic flow that operagoers seek in the later Mozart buffa works.


Fair enough. I did say _relative_ obscurity. By which I meant in relation to the five previous named operas. In my 35 years of dedicated opera going, the number of times I have seen the big three would be in double figures for Figaro and Giovanni and near that for the Magic Flute, but I have never had the opportunity to see Idomeneo. I suspect that is because Opera Australia has to go for more sure-fire attractions to reach its budget (it gets very little state support) whereas it is quite a tricky opera for smaller companies looking for less-performed works. If I lived in Germany I am sure I would have the chance because of the large number of mid-sized houses enjoying a measure of state-support. You are also right about baroque opera, and I have many opportunities to see them live - mostly but not only Handel. 
Your avatar info doesn't say where you live (not that this matters at all) - have you ever been to a performance of Idomeneo?


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> Fair enough. I did say _relative_ obscurity. By which I meant in relation to the five previous named operas. In my 35 years of dedicated opera going, the number of times I have seen the big three would be in double figures for Figaro and Giovanni and near that for the Magic Flute, but I have never had the opportunity to see Idomeneo. I suspect that is because Opera Australia has to go for more sure-fire attractions to reach its budget (it gets very little state support) whereas it is quite a tricky opera for smaller companies looking for less-performed works. If I lived in Germany I am sure I would have the chance because of the large number of mid-sized houses enjoying a measure of state-support. You are also right about baroque opera, and I have many opportunities to see them live - mostly but not only Handel.
> Your avatar info doesn't say where you live (not that this matters at all) - have you ever been to a performance of Idomeneo?


I think the last time Idomeneo was presented here in Sydney was 2006 at the City Recital Hall, you need to go back to 2000 for an Opera Australia performance at the Opera House.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

DonAlfonso said:


> I think the last time Idomeneo was presented here in Sydney was 2006 at the City Recital Hall, you need to go back to 2000 for an Opera Australia performance at the Opera House.


Ah, Don Alfonso, you have struck a sore point. For various reasons, not least of which are the smaller opera house and larger tourist market in Sydney, that fair city has a wider set of operas each year from OA than Melbourne. I can't say for certain that they did not bring Idomeneo to Melbourne, though I would certainly have gone had I been aware of it, but I am pretty sure they didn't. 
I begged Adrian Collette for years to bring Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk to Melbourne after the wonderful Sydney production. My pleas fell on deaf ears. Eventually it came, but I cannot flatter myself that my importunings played any role in that.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Steatopygous said:


> Your avatar info doesn't say where you live (not that this matters at all) - have you ever been to a performance of Idomeneo?


Massachusetts.

I had the opportunity a few years ago, but foolishly didn't take the chance.


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

Steatopygous said:


> Ah, Don Alfonso, you have struck a sore point. For various reasons, not least of which are the smaller opera house and larger tourist market in Sydney, that fair city has a wider set of operas each year from OA than Melbourne. I can't say for certain that they did not bring Idomeneo to Melbourne, though I would certainly have gone had I been aware of it, but I am pretty sure they didn't.
> I begged Adrian Collette for years to bring Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk to Melbourne after the wonderful Sydney production. My pleas fell on deaf ears. Eventually it came, but I cannot flatter myself that my importunings played any role in that.


You'd have to go back to 1994 to find a production of Idomeneo in Melbourne. To my shame I didn't see the Sydney OA production in 2000, can't remember why as I was a subscriber and patron at the time, but I had seen it a few years earlier at Covent Garden.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

DonAlfonso said:


> You'd have to go back to 1994 to find a production of Idomeneo in Melbourne. To my shame I didn't see the Sydney OA production in 2000, can't remember why as I was a subscriber and patron at the time, but I had seen it a few years earlier at Covent Garden.


You know, I've a vague feeling I might have seen that 1994 Idomeneo. Was it the Victorian State Opera? I didn't keep very good records of my opera attendance at that time. But if I did, all memory of it has vanished, which is a depressing fact of my life.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

Steatopygous said:


> You know, I've a vague feeling I might have seen that 1994 Idomeneo. Was it the Victorian State Opera? I didn't keep very good records of my opera attendance at that time. But if I did, all memory of it has vanished, which is a depressing fact of my life.


That is very depressing...


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

trazom said:


> the obbligato recitative for long sections of dialog in Cosi, as in his earlier opera seria Idomeneo(also even here the secco recitative in this opera contains imaginative writing: the bass outlining a descending chromatic fourth in one part), and use of measured recitative, with a set tempo and full accompaniment that blurs the line between recitative and formal number. He also connects musical ideas from a recitative to the aria or ensemble it introduces, as in Don Giovanni, where Zerlina's sings a melodic line similar to the one in the later duet "La ci darem la mano." I'm not even confident that most who complain about his recitatives actually realize when they're listening to the recitative accompagnato versus an actual aria or ensemble. Many, for instance, don't realize the dramatic opening music to the Queen of the Night's first appearance(o zittre nicht) is all recitative.


Why mention the accompagnato recititatives. When people say they don´t like the recititatives in Mozart operas they mean the secco recitatives no one cares about o zittre nicht or Die Zauberflöte when it comes to boring recitatives. This is not only Mozart´s operas but all other operas with secco recitatives it is just a kind of opera that some of us just don´t like just like there are other kinds of operas that others don´t like.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

OperaChic said:


> That may or may not apply to others, but it does not apply to me. Unfortunately I find recitative to be mannered and unappealing. So because this is the main way the story is moved along, maybe it makes sense that I have difficulty connecting with them in the same way I do with the stories and story telling methods of other composers.
> 
> And I never suggested there was a deficiency with Mozart. I understand that he was composing in the standard idiom of his time. Its just not my favorite idiom.


I think if one knows the opera well and one is listening to a recording - leaving out the recit makes sense. Both Bohm and Klemper made recordings of M operas minus the recit.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I like the Klemperer _Zauberflote_ for a number of reasons, and the absence of dialogue is one of them. I've known the opera for decades, and have absolutely no interest in ever hearing the dialogue again - all those cute characters saying silly things. Whenever the Met broadcasts it I always struggle with myself, hoping the singing will make up for the annoying talk and make it worth my while to listen. Seeing an opera in the theater or on video is completely different - there I want the whole thing for the story - but when I want music, and I know the opera already, I have little tolerance for talk except for a few words here and there at key dramatic moments.
> 
> For me, operas with spoken dialogue, and Baroque and Classical operas with lots of recitative, are best heard as "highlights." Not knowing how many years I have left on this earth, I don't want to spend them listening to chatter. There's too much real music wanting my attention.


you have summed up better than I ever could have done - my justification for skipping the recit when listening at home or on the move.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

OperaChic said:


> Ok I have to admit, while I love Mozart's music in general, and his great piano concertos are some of my favorite works by any composer, a lot of his operas leave me somewhat cold. And that includes Don Giovanni.  Maybe that has partly to do with the recitative that kind of drags on to me. At the end of the day yes they have some lovely arias and melodies, but I just don't find myself connecting with the stories and characters or finding them very exciting. Oh well. C'est la vie!


A young singer (counter tenor) once said to me - I adore Handel - but find Mozart's operas boring and predictable.

what does one say to such a thing?


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

stomanek said:


> A young singer (counter tenor) once said to me - I adore Handel - but find Mozart's operas boring and predictable.
> 
> what does one say to such a thing?


I don't think one does. One says, "that's sad" and turns swiftly to the weather or football. 
Or, on the opposite tack, one says "You must be an absolute genius at prediction. What's going to win the 3.30 at Newmarket?"


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

stomanek said:


> A young singer (counter tenor) once said to me - I adore Handel - but find Mozart's operas boring and predictable.
> 
> what does one say to such a thing?


Counter tenors are_ pretty boring _ springs to mind :lol:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> A young singer (counter tenor) once said to me - I adore Handel - but find Mozart's operas boring and predictable.
> 
> what does one say to such a thing?


No accounting for taste!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

On seeing Le Nozze again recently and thinking about the Don and Cosi, there’s no getting away from the fact that he’s obsessed with sex!

Many Operas are about love but his include everything from abduction to instant gratification. There’s little about eternal Love?

I’ve read some pretty convoluted pages in Programmes trying to explain Cosi or the Don in feminist terms, but he gets way with stuff the PC brigade would never allow in a modern e.g. TV plot.

Just a thought. 

(PS I have plans for two of his Operas next year!)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Belowpar said:


> On seeing Le Nozze again recently and thinking about the Don and Cosi, there's no getting away from the fact that he's obsessed with sex!
> 
> Many Operas are about love but his include everything from abduction to instant gratification. There's little about eternal Love?
> 
> ...


I think you need to read "The Man who wrote Mozart" by Anthony Holden to get a picture of the sort of man da Ponte was. When you read the book it's quite obvious why he wrote the libretti as he did. Of course, Cosi was his original story.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> On seeing Le Nozze again recently and thinking about the Don and Cosi, there's no getting away from the fact that he's obsessed with sex!
> 
> Many Operas are about love but his include everything from abduction to instant gratification. There's little about eternal Love?


Somewhere between boinking your chambermaid and galloping onto your hero's funeral pyre there's a happy medium.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Somewhere between boinking your chambermaid and galloping onto your hero's funeral pyre there's a happy medium.


We need a poll to find out which is more noble, or which is more stupid.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> We need a poll to find out which is more noble, or which is more stupid.


Depends on your priorities. In the former case you're forgiven by your hapless spouse and free to knock up the scullery maid. In the latter case you have the satisfaction of knowing you'll bring this whole corrupt world to a fiery end.

Temptation, temptation.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Depends on your priorities. In the former case you're forgiven by your hapless spouse and free to knock up the scullery maid. In the latter case you have the satisfaction of knowing *you'll bring this whole corrupt world to a fiery end. *
> 
> Temptation, temptation.


well now that you've put it THAT way....who could resist?


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Presumably Klemperer's version with no dialogue?


I loathe the Klemperer Zauberflote despite the amazing cast. To me it is lifeless, slow and boring. Same with Klemperer's Fidelio. I just don't get the admiration he receives when he's so dull. But, that's my opinion. I love Solti's first Zauberflote and Jacobs' is pretty interesting.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

gellio said:


> I loathe the Klemperer Zauberflote despite the amazing cast. To me it is lifeless, slow and boring. Same with Klemperer's Fidelio. I just don't get the admiration he receives when he's so dull. But, that's my opinion. I love Solti's first Zauberflote and Jacobs' is pretty interesting.


I love Klemperer. To me he plumbs deepest into the works. mho


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Itullian said:


> I love Klemperer. To me he plumbs deepest into the works. mho


Too me it sounds like he thinks he's conducting Butterfly. His heralded Fidelio also has no life. Of course, these are my opinions and we all like what we like.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

gellio said:


> I loathe the Klemperer Zauberflote despite the amazing cast. To me it is lifeless, slow and boring. Same with Klemperer's Fidelio. I just don't get the admiration he receives when he's so dull. But, that's my opinion.
> I love Solti's first Zauberflote and Jacobs' is pretty interesting.


Me to, in fact the only recording keeps me on my bottom while listing :tiphat:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

gellio said:


> I loathe the Klemperer Zauberflote despite the amazing cast. To me it is lifeless, slow and boring. Same with Klemperer's Fidelio. I just don't get the admiration he receives when he's so dull. But, that's my opinion. I love Solti's first Zauberflote and Jacobs' is pretty interesting.


Klemperer is slow especially by today's standards. But he always has a spring in the rhythms and the female cast just have to be heard. For an older recording which has stood the test of time well, try Karajan's Vienna from 1950s. Demoted an amazing Tamino.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

La finta giardiniera (all recitatives omitted):


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Can someone please help?

I need a good recording of Don Giovanni. 

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I like Gardiner, Solti, and Jacobs.










Rene Jacobs (Conductor), Freibruger Barockorchester (Orchestra), Johannes Weisser (Performer), Lorenzo Regazzo (Performer), Alexandrina Pendatchanska (Performer), Olga Pasichnyk (Performer), Kenneth Tarver (Performer), Sunhae Im , RIAS Kammerchor (Performer), Nikolay Borchev , Alessandro Guerzoni










Gilfry, Orgonasova, Margiono, James, Prégardien, D'Arcangelo, Gardiner










Georg Solti (Conductor), The London Philharmonic (Orchestra), Bryn Terfel (Performer), Renee Fleming (Performer), Ann Murray (Performer), Michele Pertusi (Performer), Herbert Lippert (Performer), Monica Groop (Performer), Roberto Scaltriti/Mario Luperi


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks. I'm quite a fan of both Gardiner and Jacobs, but I fancy something a bit 'big band' so the Solti looks interesting :tiphat:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

The classic Don Giovanni is the Giulini, which was wonderfully remastered by Warner a couple of years ago:









This is as definitive as it gets and Giulini goes for a fairly full bodied approach. I also like the Jacobs among the period performances, but a good midway point between the two is Fricsay's modern orchestra version, but with a lighter, more Mozartean style to it.

In any case, as you are after a 'big band' approach, the Giulini is probably the best choice for you.

N.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

The Conte said:


> The classic Don Giovanni is the Giulini, which was wonderfully remastered by Warner a couple of years ago:
> 
> View attachment 160203
> 
> ...


Thanks, Giulini looks interesting


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> Thanks, Giulini looks interesting


The Giulini is a classic. It has a faultless cast and superb playing from the Philharmonia. Honestly you can't go wrong.


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## FrankE (Jan 13, 2021)

HenryPenfold said:


> Can someone please help?
> 
> I need a good recording of Don Giovanni.
> 
> Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


BBCR3 BaL suggested Mahler Chamber Orchestra, Yannick Nézet-Séguin on 2018-07-07* 
CFM suggested Soloists/Philharmonia Chorus and Orchestra/Carlo Maria Giulini There wasn't a recommendation from Gramophone but the list I incorporated into my database was from their top 250.

I was looking for Don Giovanni recording and reviews earlier before I got taken down the rabbit hole of creating a new 'operas' table in my access database of magazine and wireless station recommendations.
*I need to fill in the reviewer fields

The reviewer was Nicholas Kenyon. 
Sir Nicholas Roger Kenyon CBE is an English music administrator, editor and writer on music. He was responsible for the BBC Proms in 1996-2007, after which he was appointed Managing Director of the Barbican Centre.
The programme audio is still online. I don't know if I am allowed to post a link.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Another vote for this classic.


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

The Conte said:


> The classic Don Giovanni is the Giulini, which was wonderfully remastered by Warner a couple of years ago:
> 
> View attachment 160203
> 
> ...


This Don has certainly stood the test of time. One of those rare occasions in the studios where everything goes right. Total classic.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

JTS said:


> This Don has certainly stood the test of time. One of those rare occasions in the studios where everything goes right. Total classic.


And to think that the first couple of times I listened to it I found it lifeless! Perhaps I had a rather limited idea of how the title roll should be portrayed, but I've since changed my mind as the exchanges between Waechter and Taddei work very well. I personally prefer Fricsay's conducting, but his set isn't as well cast as this one.

N.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

HenryPenfold said:


> Can someone please help?
> 
> I need a good recording of Don Giovanni.
> 
> Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


For me, Don Giovanni is the greatest opera ever written, alongside Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Although I've never heard a recording that I thought did the opera full justice, so it's not an easy recommendation. Considering that it's such an incredible masterpiece, you'll probably want several recordings, eventually.

I. Older recordings on modern Instruments--analogue stereo & mono:

1. The classic recommendation often given by music critics is the EMI recording from Carlo Maria Giulini, with the Philharmonia Orchestra; however, the performance is far from HIP or 18th century in style. Though admittedly, as others have pointed out, he does have a good cast: 




2. If pressed to choose, I prefer Karl Böhm's more energized 1967 DG recording in Prague: 



. Fortunately, Böhm doesn't sound as Brahmsian in his approach to Mozart here; at least, not as much as he did in his Berlin recordings of Mozart's Symphonies, where it is a negative. There's also a later live 1978 DG recording from Böhm that was made in Salzburg, with Sherrill Milnes playing the title role: Curiously, on the live recording, Bohm can slow down more & occasionally drags the music, if memory serves. However, I like Milnes' Don, & otherwise, I like this recording: 



. The finale is particularly well done, for instance, IMO: 



. Nevertheless, Böhm's 1967 recording is my 1st choice between the two.

3. Others have liked Ferenc Fricsay's 1958 DG recording, which is good, too (but I believe it is mono...EDIT: I was mistaken, it is in stereo, see The Conte's post below.): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015R8BXU/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

There are also older recordings from Josef Krips: 



, Erich Leinsdorf (1959 in Vienna: 



) & Wilhelm Furtwangler (at Salzburg in 1954: 



), which all have good reputations. However, I've not heard any of them.

II. Digital era recordings, on modern instruments:

1. Claudio Abbado's 1998 DG recording with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe is good, too. Abbado was a fine opera conductor, and I think an underrated Mozartian. & he has a good cast, overall. But I wouldn't say this recording is a clear first choice, either, since I can occasionally find Abbado overly fussy: 




2. I've also liked Rafael Kubelik's lesser known 1985 recording on Sony, with the Bavarian RSO, which presently is 'dirt cheap' on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Don-G...rt+don+giovanni&qid=1634417093&s=music&sr=1-2. For me, Kubelik's conducting rarely disappoints, & here is no exception. Although I'd urge you sample the singers first, to see if they're to your liking.

3. Yannick Nezet-Segin's DG recording has received favorable reviews, but I wasn't enthusiastic enough about what I heard on You Tube to purchase it: 



. It all sounds a bit too micromanaged, for my tastes. But admittedly, I don't own it, & others may feel differently.

There's also a 1991 recording from Sir Neville Marriner & the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields on Philips, which I've likewise not heard. Like Abbado, Marriner tends to get underrated in Mozart, IMO, so it may be a good recording. Plus, the ASMF are musicians of the first rank, and they play Mozart exceptionally well: 



.

Sir Colin Davis also recorded the opera for Philips at Covent Garden back in 1973 (it's analogue). I had the Davis recording on LP many years go, & I remember it being very good, but I've not heard it in a long time: 



.

Bernard Haitink's 1984 Glyndebourne/London Philharmonic recording with Thomas Allen singing the role of the Don received excellent reviews from the British rags when it was released. I'd hesitate to give it my strongest recommendation, but it's certainly solid, and Haitink was a fine Mozart (& Haydn) conductor:

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Giova...rt+don+giovanni&qid=1634433335&s=music&sr=1-1

By the way, there's a also 1977 Glyndebourne video production from Haitink, with Benjamin Luxon singing the title role. Presumably, it's the same Glyndebourne production, but I'm not certain about this:














To my knowledge, there are no digital recordings of Don Giovanni from my favorite Mozart orchestra in the world (playing on modern instruments), the Staatskapelle Dresden. Nor is there a digital recording from my other favorite Mozart orchestra, the Camerata Academica des Mozarteums Salzburg. (EDIT: Actually, I've just discovered that there is one, a 2014 production that I found on You Tube: 



. I'm listening to it right now, & as always, it's a joy to hear the Camerata Salzburg play Mozart. Although, so far, I'm undecided about whether I like the singers ...) Nor the English Chamber Orchestra, either, who are likewise exceptional in Mozart. Although I do know that Peter Mattai was singing the Don at the Semperoper in Dresden several years ago (& elsewhere), but I'm not sure if a recording ever came out. He's an exceptionally fine singer, & I'd like to hear him perform this role.

Nevertheless, both Hans Vonk and Sir Colin Davis made excellent digital recordings of the Don Giovanni Overture with the Staatskapelle that are well worth hearing (if you want to hear a great Mozart orchestra play this music):

--Vonk: 



--Davis: 




Lastly, Sir Charles Mackerras has also recorded the opera, but again, I don't know it.

III. On period instruments:

1. There is reportedly an exhilarating period recording of Don Giovanni from Teodor Currentzius & MusicAeterna, which I haven't heard either, but plan to at some point: despite that some critics have found it relentless and exhausting, and the cast a mixed bag. At least Currentzius is never boring: 




2. & 3. Both Rene Jacobs & John Eliot Gardiner's recordings are very good, too, as has already been mentioned. Of the two, I may slightly lean towards Jacobs' recording; although I'd consider Gardiner to be at his best in Mozart operas (his Marriage of Figaro & Idomeneo are exceptionable, for instance).

--Jacobs: 



--Gardiner: 




4. In the early days of the period revival, I also enjoyed the Drottingholm Palace Theater production of Don Giovanni on both DVD & CD, with Arnold Ostman conducting. In the video taped stage production, they use authentic 18th century stage machinery & scenery, which was discovered intact and in surprisingly good condition at the Palace in the early part of the 20th century (which, btw, Ingmar Bergman had painstakingly recreated in a Stockholm film studio for his movie of The Magic Flute, which I'd strongly recommend, if you haven't seen it. It's too bad that Bergman never got round to making a film of Don Giovanni, with recreated 18th century sets): https://visitworldheritage.com/en/e...tsteater/12319404-0145-4854-b7e6-a99a7de4de93. However, for the Drottingholm stage production, Ostman didn't use an international cast of 'star' singers, as he did on his studio recording.

--Here's a link to Ostman's CD recording, where the 'star' line up included Hakan Hagegard as the Don, Arleen Auger as Donna Anna, and Della Jones, as Donna Elvira. It's a terrific cast, & this is one of my favorite recordings of the opera; however, I am admittedly a period enthusiast, & realize that this version may not be for everyone: 



.

Here too is a YT link to a video of the 1987 Drottingholm stage production, with its authentic 18th century sets. As mentioned, one negative may be that Ostman doesn't use an international cast of singers for this production, however, I like the lesser known singers, & they can act! Nevertheless, it's as close as you'll get to seeing how Don Giovanni was performed in Mozart's time. Ostman & his orchestra members even wear wigs! I found the whole production very watchable--though the You Tube link I've provided below unfortunately has German subtitles. Plus, the copy is a lot darker than I remember it, & the sound of the copy has aged a bit, as well (it may be made from one of the original 1980s VHS tapes):






I'd also be curious to hear Marc Minkowski's Erato recording with Les Musiciens du Louvre, though I don't know why they call it a "transcription". Minkowski also staged a production at the Drottingholm Court Theater in 2017, and if this production was recorded or filmed?, it's likely a good option... : https://en.chateauversailles.fr/mozart-don-giovanni. This is the kind of music that I expect Minkowski would do well. Here's a sampling from an earlier 2013 production with him conducting: 




However, for many, Rene Jacobs' recording will probably be the preferred period choice. Though personally, I prefer Ostman in Drottingholm, with Jacobs as my second choice, & Gardiner a close third.

With that said, my favorite period Mozart conductor, William Christie, hasn't recorded Don Giovanni, to my knowledge. Nor did Hogwood or Bruggen. Nor have Koopman or Pinnock to date, among my other favorites ...

Nikolaus Harnoncourt might be well suited to this opera, if he ever recorded it: 



. EDIT: I see that Harnoncourt did record Don Giovanni, with the Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam, and conducted it elsewhere, too (in Salzburg & Zurich). While I can find Harnoncourt to be a hit and miss conductor, his Don Giovanni might be worth looking into considering that his recordings with the Concertgebouw have generally been excellent (such as their Haydn): https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Don-Giovanni-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt/dp/B01HU40TYU.

Giovanni Antonini is another period conductor that has conducted this opera, but I don't think there's an available recording. Edit: there is a video, however: 



.

I'd also be interested to hear Ivan Fischer conduct Don Giovanni, since I liked his period Cosi fan Tutte from Glyndebourne years ago (it's on Opus Arte).

My two cents.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Josquin13,

that's an excellent review of the main picks from the many recordings available. Very balanced and fair too.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

NOTE: The Fricsay (from 1959) is in stereo and has recently been remastered for both CD and Bluray audio disc.









N.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

HenryPenfold said:


> Can someone please help?
> 
> I need a good recording of Don Giovanni.
> 
> Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.


I guess that I'm one of the few people who isn't enamored of the Giulini recording on EMI. Giulini's direction is great, but I find most of the singers unappealing compared to recorded competition.

There are quite a few I prefer, including the previously mentioned Ostman, Jacobs, Gardiner, Currentzis, and Abbado recordings. But my favorite is the live 1956 Salzburg performance conducted by Mitropoulos - the sound is monaural but good enough, and it's hard to imagine a better cast:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I’ll stick with the Giulini, which is the best for my ears. I never cared for the HIP movement - my opinion being that the composers would’ve gladly switched to modern instruments if they’d have them available. The ugliness of the “original” instruments are not for my ears (or years!).


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

There is an interesting article from the Gramophone on line

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/mozart-s-don-giovanni-a-guide-to-essential-recordings

Discussing recordings of Don G

There are a couple of live recordings by Herbert von Karajan from Salzburg which are worth a dip. If anyone says he conducted everything the same you are in for a shock


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Speaking as a lifelong Wagnerian, I must say that after such a rash of Wagner threads it's a relief to see the attention shift back to Mozart. I was starting to feel guilty.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Speaking as a lifelong Wagnerian, I must say that after such a rash of Wagner threads it's a relief to see the attention shift back to Mozart. I was starting to feel guilty.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

MAS said:


> I'll stick with the Giulini, which is the best for my ears. I never cared for the HIP movement - my opinion being that the composers would've gladly switched to modern instruments if they'd have them available. The ugliness of the "original" instruments are not for my ears (or years!).


My opinion is 180 degrees from yours.  I have no idea what composers from earlier periods thought; I have no idea what composers of today think - but I assume composers exploit the attributes of the instruments of their day. To ignore that there are differences in how a work sounds or was conceived based on the contemporary instruments available is folly, IMO.

However, I do not prefer HIP.PI because of some misconstrued idea of authenticity (another folly), but precisely because I prefer the sound of the period instruments.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Josquin13 said:


> For me, Don Giovanni is the greatest opera ever written, alongside Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Although I've never heard a recording that I thought did the opera full justice, so it's not an easy recommendation. Considering that it's such an incredible masterpiece, you'll probably want several recordings, eventually.
> 
> I. Older recordings on modern Instruments--analogue stereo & mono:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much Josquin13 for such an interesting and considered reply to my request.

There's a great deal for me to think about and I'm intrigued that you consider this the greatest opera ever written. :tiphat:


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank you to all of you have taken the trouble to respond to my request. 

I bought the Barenboim recording quite a few years ago, but it never quite caught fire for me, so I’m wondering if a different recording might help, because I think I’m missing out on rather good Mozart composition, to say nothing of it being a tip-top opera of any era …….


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Josquin13 said:


> III. On period instruments:
> 
> 1. There is reportedly an exhilarating period recording of Don Giovanni from *Teodor Currentzius* & *MusicAeterna*, which I haven't heard either, but plan to at some point: despite that some critics have found it relentless and exhausting, and the cast a mixed bag. At least Currentzius is never boring:


I have enjoyed all of the *Currentzis* Mozart opera recordings, but was in a hurry when I posted and failed to include his excellent account of _Don Giovanni_. But I am unsure if it will replace either *Jacobs* or *Gardiner* as my go-to recording.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> Thank you to all of you have taken the trouble to respond to my request.
> 
> I bought the Barenboim recording quite a few years ago, but it never quite caught fire for me, so I'm wondering if a different recording might help, because I think I'm missing out on rather good Mozart composition, to say nothing of it being a tip-top opera of any era …….


You might find Ralph Moore's survey interesting http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Jun/Mozart-Giovanni-survey.htm

It's not exhaustive ( and it doesn't incliude Currentzis) but I found it interesting.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> You might find Ralph Moore's survey interesting http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Jun/Mozart-Giovanni-survey.htm
> 
> It's not exhaustive ( and it doesn't incliude Currentzis) but I found it interesting.


Very interesting - thank you!

That will keep me occupied for a while :lol:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

If we add live recordings into the mix, these two have very strong casts and make for great listening:









Some of these singers are on the Giulini, but I prefer Valletti over Alva and Panerai over Cappuccilli. Some may prefer Price over Sutherland, but the young Sutherland was better suited vocally to Donna Anna IMO. In any case, I wouldn't want to be without either.









I'm not a huge fan of Solti (and can't stand his Wagner), but his Mozart and Strauss works for me. This recording is another one with a great all round cast that bring out the characterisation in what is a long opera.

N.


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

The Conte said:


> If we add live recordings into the mix, these two have very strong casts and make for great listening:
> 
> View attachment 160277
> 
> ...


You compare the Karajan to his 1985 studio recording and you wonder if it can be the same conductor! The problem is the less than full recorded sound.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

The Conte said:


> If we add live recordings into the mix, these two have very strong casts and make for great listening:
> 
> View attachment 160277
> 
> ...


Solti's 1982 Figaro on Decca with Te Kanawa and a star studded cast is good.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

hammeredklavier said:


>


I boycott Peter Sellers productions


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Such a joy to watch.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


>


Great choice, man of taste .


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Lucio Silla anyone?

Have been listening to the 1985 live recording with Ann Murray.

Some excellent numbers in that opera - the Giunia + Cecilio duet act 1 for example.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

PlaySalieri said:


> Lucio Silla anyone?
> 
> Have been listening to the 1985 live recording with Ann Murray.
> 
> Some excellent numbers in that opera - the Giunia + Cecilio duet act 1 for example.




Mozart: Lucio Silla, K135

Peter Schreier (Lucio Silla), Arleen Augér (Giunia), Edith Mathis (Cinna), Julia Varady (Cecilio), Helen Donath (Celia)

Mozarteumorchester Salzburg, Salzburger Rundfunk- und Mozarteumchor, Leopold Hager

I like this one very much with the all star cast.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Great production.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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