# norma the opera



## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

question. i just watched "Norma" the opera first time. PBS and i liked it. before it started a announcer stated that most	sopranos would rather sing other operas then this one. Why? thanks all!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ldiat said:


> question. i just watched "Norma" the opera first time. PBS and i liked it. before it started a announcer stated that most	sopranos would rather sing other operas then this one. Why? thanks all!


Because it is a very heavy, demanding difficult role, many sopranos did fail hopelessly with the main part.
I am not going to give you a binding advice but do try to see the Met production .

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/arts/music/norma-review-metropolitan-opera.html


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Because it is a very heavy, demanding difficult role, many sopranos did fail hopelessly with the main part.e o
> I am not going to give you a binding advice but do try to see the Met production .
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/arts/music/norma-review-metropolitan-opera.html


OMG that is the one that was aired on PBS!! i liked it first time though. thanks!!


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Because it is a very heavy, demanding difficult role, many sopranos did fail hopelessly with the main part.
> I am not going to give you a binding advice but do try to see the Met production .
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/arts/music/norma-review-metropolitan-opera.html


and why is it so difficult?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

ldiat said:


> and why is it so difficult?


it's difficult because it requires music that would normally be sung by different types of voices.

the first aria is a bright, soft, delicate coloratura soprano, followed by the more heroic, formidable coloratura in the caballetta









the duet is dark, nasty, vengeful, sung in a mezzo/contralto tessitura requiring flexibility and projection near the bottom of the range





finally, the death scene aria is a full, opulent dramatic soprano





it's such a treacherous role because there is no one singer who performs all parts of it the best, and you need to be able to do at least 3 different voices to do it justice. probably the closest to accomplishing this is Callas, followed by Caballe, but the competition gets absolutely _wrecked_ by Sutherland in the first aria and caballetta.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ldiat said:


> and why is it so difficult?


As BalalaikaBoy said and..........she's almost always on stage, the whole opera.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Many sopranos would call it the most difficult role in the soprano repertoire. The great Lilli Lehmann said she would rather sing all three Brünnhildes in one night than one Norma.

The problems are manifold, a singer needs power _and_ flexibility, and most singers, it has to be admitted, tend to have one or the other. Larger voices smudge the many intricate coloratura passages, and smaller ones simply don't have the vocal grandeur. Quite aside from its technical demands, it also requires a singer with extraordinary personal magnetism.

Lord Harewood, writing in Kobbé in 1976, has this to say in his summing up of the opera.



> In the two periods before and after the 1939-45 war, *Norma* acquired two great protagonists: Rosa Ponselle and Maria Callas, something I know from first-hand knowledge in the one case and from reliable hearsay and gramophone records in the other. With such exponents, *Norma*, above all Bellini's operas, flowers, gains in expressiveness and dramatic impact and the music grows to full stature as it cannot when the performance is in lesser hands. Partly, this gain is general and the result of technical attainments, of superior, more penetrating imagination; partly it is particular and the product of an ability to colour and weight every phrase individually and leave nothing open to the risks of the automatic or the routine. But, whatever the reason, let no one imagine he has genuinely heard *Norma* without a truly great singer in the title role. Not to have one is as dire in its consequences as a performance of *Götterdämmerung* with an inadequate Brünnhilde. The trouble as far as Bellini is concerned is that, in the twentieth century, there have been fewer great Normas than fine Brünnhildes.


Interesting to note that even in 1976 he didn't include Caballé or Sutherland, both of whom he would have seen in the role, as truly great exponents, appreciable Normas though they were. Radvanovsky today, though she makes quite an impression, is, to my mind a notch below even them; her coloratura can be a bit sketchy and she doesn't claim the range of tone colour commanded by Caballé or Sutherland, let alone Callas and Ponselle.

As for his assertion that there were fewer great Normas around than fine Brünnhildes, that may have been true in 1976, but, and I admit I know less about Wagner performance, I have a feeling that great Brünnhildes are also rather thin on the ground these days.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> but the competition gets absolutely _wrecked_ by Sutherland in the first aria and caballetta.


That's a matter of opinion. The best of Sutherland's recordings of the piece is probably the one on _The Art of the Prima Donna_, but, and, this is only my opinion of course, I find, that, though ethereally beautiful, it's just a bit too silvery _for my taste_. I think my favourite _Casta diva_ of all is probably Caballé, caught live in Orange.

As for the _cabaletta_, Callas, especially in her first recording of the piece for Cetra, in the 1952 Covent Garden performance, and in the 1955 La Scala performance, absolutely slays the competition.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

No question but that the Caballe Orange Casta diva was outstanding and of course Callas' superb La Scala, but I do not ignore or take lightly the simply superb and right-up-there performance of La Radvanovsky whose rendition was spectacular. Her voice and expression draws you right in and we've got her to enjoy in our lifetime. Don't throw that gift aside.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Many sopranos would call it the most difficult role in the soprano repertoire. The great Lilli Lehmann said she would rather sing all three Brünnhildes in one night than one Norma.
> 
> The problems are manifold, a singer needs power _and_ flexibility, and most singers, it has to be admitted, tend to have one or the other. Larger voices smudge the many intricate coloratura passages, and smaller ones simply don't have the vocal grandeur. Quite aside from its technical demands, it also requires a singer with extraordinary personal magnetism.
> 
> ...


reminds me of something I missed: Norma not only requires vocal characteristics that span multiple fachs, it requires the dramatic weight of a Verdi soprano _and_ all the technical perfection of a bel canto soprano. Radvanovsky is a soprano with a fine Verdi voice, but I'm not a huge fan of the bel canto direction she's been taking her voice. I can't complain too much because she's among only a handful of singers I can think of who even have the potential to do the role moderate justice, but I wish she would go back to singing more late Verdi where the voice excels. alas, such is the modern world of opera. even the big stars often must buckle to demand of what's currently playing.

long story short: the more you learn about opera, the more you learn about how much of a vocal behemoth Norma is.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

"Norma" was written by Bellini for the great diva Giuditta Pasta. She was a 'soprano sfogato', a kind of singer that can manage at the same time rotund low notes, very high notes, coloratura di grazia, coloratura di forza, can switch between a dramatic register and amazing agility at the top her tessitura...

As can be imagined, there are very few voices that can really manage all these things. In recent times, only Maria Callas, and during a rather brief career, was able to. Of course, as if you are waiting for a 'soprano sfogato' to appear to stage "Norma", there will be precious few performances, other singers can approach the role using her own weapons, and minimizing her shortcomings, in order to sing Norma.

And with great success, too, like Sutherland, Caballé, Cerquetti, Gencer... Recently, we have had also very nice Normas, like Dimitra Theoddosiou or Sondra Radvanovsky.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

schigolch said:


> "Norma" was written by Bellini for the great diva Giuditta Pasta. She was a 'soprano sfogato', a kind of singer that can manage at the same time rotund low notes, very high notes, coloratura di grazia, coloratura di forza, can switch between a dramatic register and amazing agility at the top her tessitura...
> 
> As can be imagined, there are very few voices that can really manage all these things. In recent times, only Maria Callas, and during a rather brief career, was able to. Of course, as if you are waiting for a 'soprano sfogato' to appear to stage "Norma", there will be precious few performances, other singers can approach the role using her own weapons, and minimizing her shortcomings, in order to sing Norma.
> 
> And with great success, too, like Sutherland, Caballé, Cerquetti,* Gencer.*.. Recently, we have had also very nice Normas, like Dimitra Theoddosiou or Sondra Radvanovsky.


yes! a wonderful, versatile singer who doesn't receive enough credit.

other singers who have done respectable performances include:
- Ghena Dimitrova
- Marisa Galvany 
- Shirley Verrett

and, more recently
- Christine Goerke

I'm also looking forward to listening to Elena Souliotis's performance with Del Monaco from 1967, but I can't say yet


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> it's difficult because it requires music that would normally be sung by different types of voices.
> 
> the first aria is a bright, soft, delicate coloratura soprano, followed by the more heroic, formidable coloratura in the caballetta
> 
> ...


thank you and now i understand. very nice


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> As BalalaikaBoy said and..........she's almost always on stage, the whole opera.


yes "always on stage" re-watching in my head (no coment ) i get it


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

schigolch said:


> "Norma" was written by Bellini for the great diva Giuditta Pasta. She was a 'soprano sfogato', a kind of singer that can manage at the same time rotund low notes, very high notes, coloratura di grazia, coloratura di forza, can switch between a dramatic register and amazing agility at the top her tessitura...
> 
> As can be imagined, there are very few voices that can really manage all these things. In recent times, only Maria Callas, and during a rather brief career, was able to. Of course, as if you are waiting for a 'soprano sfogato' to appear to stage "Norma", there will be precious few performances, other singers can approach the role using her own weapons, and minimizing her shortcomings, in order to sing Norma.
> 
> And with great success, too, like Sutherland, Caballé, Cerquetti, Gencer... Recently, we have had also very nice Normas, like Dimitra Theoddosiou or Sondra Radvanovsky.


thank you great info!


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

'The great Lilli Lehmann said she would rather sing all three Brünnhildes in one night than one Norma.'

and this is the line used by the hostess last night before the opera!


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## Jermaine (Apr 23, 2016)

It's difficult because it's very demanding on the voice in the way of dynamics and duration. That alone is reason to be leery.

However, in my estimation, a lot of the difficulty is mere projection, probably even fear. This projected difficulty stems from the fact that this is one of the many classic operas that's been robbed of it's platonic forms. Norma the opera boils down to Norma the character with three variation: Norma as Callas, Norma as Sutherland, and Norma as Caballe. No other interpretation is allowed (You can verify this by going to any staging of the opera by other singers bar the aforementioned). This view is propelled by the fans of these singers who will berate and belittle any singer who dear venture to take on this mythical right of passage that they [the fans] have nurtured in their zealous devotion to these "mythic" divas. As a result, many Sopranos, in fear of how it might reflect on their career, are leery of entering into such uncharted territory. ​


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, I don't think that singers like Lilli Lehmann, Rosa Ponselle or Giannina Arangi-Lombardi (that debuted as Adalgisa, before singing Norma), were intimidated by Callas, Sutherland, Caballé or her fans, but all of them were really aware of the many difficulties and demands of the role. 

Nevertheless, I agree that we are now more daring in the staging of "Norma", than in the singing, that can be rather flat and unimaginative sometimes. Delivered more as a duty, than as a pleasure... I found refreshing the approach of the Biondi brothers, with singers like June Anderson, that were not in CSC league, but trying to find new ways to perform the opera.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

schigolch said:


> *Well, I don't think that singers like Lilli Lehmann, Rosa Ponselle or Giannina Arangi-Lombardi* (that debuted as Adalgisa, before singing Norma), were intimidated by Callas, Sutherland, Caballé or her fans, but all of them were really aware of the many difficulties and demands of the role.
> 
> Nevertheless, I agree that we are now more daring in the staging of "Norma", than in the singing, that can be rather flat and unimaginative sometimes. Delivered more as a duty, than as a pleasure... I found refreshing the approach of the Biondi brothers, with singers like June Anderson, that were not in CSC league, but trying to find new ways to perform the opera.


After Ponselle a couple MET Norma performances by Gina Cigna, then a long run from 1943-54 of 14 MET performances by Zinka Milanov but very hard to find any record of them, they are so obscure I had never considered that Zinka performed the role......


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DarkAngel said:


> After Ponselle a couple MET Norma performances by Gina Cigna, then a long run from 1943-54 of 14 MET performances by Zinka Milanov but very hard to find any record of them, they are so obscure I had never considered that Zinka performed the role......


I keep reading reviews on the net, which state that Cigna had a better technique than Callas, though less dramatic involvement. Well she didn't. She had solid vocal production, it is true, but where agility and accuracy is concerned, her technique is sadly lacking, and she is often four-square in her phrasing and monochrome generally. Nowhere do you get the kind of light and shade the role requires, nor the subtle gradations of tone you will hear with a Ponselle, a Callas or even a Caballe. Good vocal technique requires firm vocal production of course, but, particularly in _bel canto_ opera, good technique also requires cleanly articulated trills, scales, staccati and ease of movement round the stave. It never ceases to amaze me that we are prepared to accept in singers lapses in technical expertise, that we would never accept from virtuoso instrumentalists.

As for Milanov, I've never heard any recordings of her as Norma, but I can't imagine she would ever have had the technique or the temperament for the role.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^^ GM the Cigna MET Norma recording is interesting historically but as you say not nearly as dramatic or exciting as post Callas influence versions......look at the supporting cast for Cigna, wow!!!!!

*Metropolitan Opera House
December 11, 1937*

*NORMA {39}

Norma...................Gina Cigna
Pollione................Giovanni Martinelli
Adalgisa................Bruna Castagna
Oroveso.................Ezio Pinza
Flavio..................Giordano Paltrinieri
Clotilde................Thelma Votipka

Conductor...............Ettore Panizza

*


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Cigna recorded Norma twice. Dark Angel has linked above the first. There is another recording, rather more solid, with Ebe Stignani, Giovanni Breviario and Tancredi Pasero, under the baton of Vittorio Gui. Nevertheless, Cigna (a great singer) was approaching the role from a verismo standpoint, out of style, she had a very powerful voice, but she couldn't really manage the coloratura.

1937 with Panizza: 



1939 with Gui: 




Milanov recorded Norma in the 1940s and the 1950s. Of course she was no Maria Callas, but her second act in the 1944 recording is quite nice:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DarkAngel said:


> ^^^^ GM the Cigna MET Norma recording is interesting historically but as you say not nearly as dramatic or exciting as post Callas influence versions......look at the supporting cast for Cigna, wow!!!!!
> 
> *Metropolitan Opera House
> December 11, 1937*
> ...


Indeed a fabulous cast. Too bad we don't have a recording of the same singers with Ponselle.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

GregMitchell said:


> Indeed a fabulous cast. Too bad we don't have a recording of the *same singers with Ponselle*.


Indeed that would be very worthy......

A piece of MET opera trivia, *Clotilde................Thelma Votipka, *Thelma holds the record for most opera stage performances by female singer at the MET with 1,422 from 1935-66


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Callas, Caballé, and Sutherland were the great Normas of the second half of the Twentieth Century. I have listed them in the order of their greatness in my estimation. Of those who sang it previously we only really have Cigna and Milanov documented in complete performances of the role. They were pretenders to the throne, but in fairness approached the piece through the prism of their time, which is to say that it was not in the Bel Canto tradition. Of those who sang the role earlier in the century, Ponselle gets the best press, but contemporary reviews still indicate that she was not always ideally perfect in the part. Actually, years ago Richard Bonynge stated that the perfect Norma probably never existed and probably never will exist. That was surely the case regarding his wife (Joan Sutherland) even though she could be quite formidable vocally when on top of her game. In fact most of the drawbacks of many of the singers who have attempted the part in the past have been already touched upon in this thread. 

Three sopranos sang it at the MET this season. In my estimation only one totally conquered the part. Surprisingly that was Marina Rebeka. I saw her first performance in the house and she was the closest thing to Callas, Caballé, and Sutherland. The other two (Radvanowsky and Meade) were only heard via broadcast and their performances were plagued by sketchy and at times downright inaccurate coloratura and less than pleasant tonal qualities. I also have a recording of the performance that I attended and have listened to it twice. It confirmed my impression that Rebeka is probably the best exponent of the role at the present time. Indeed I was mildly impressed by a recording of her first assumption of the part and she has improved immeasurably since then.

Given the complexities of the part even Callas was not always perfect, even though on the night of December 7, 1955 at La Scala she approached perfection. Indeed the first exponent of the part Giuditta Pasta had problems as well based on contemporary reports. It was generally thought that in the 19th Century Giulia Grisi, the first Adalgisa, took the honors as the greatest Norma of the time when she transitioned to the lead role. It also proves my belief that Adalgisa should be sung by a singer capable of singing the lead role. That is both Norma and Adalgisa should have the wide range of a soprano as opposed to the mezzos with a short top who traditionally sing Adalgisa and have to alter or transpose the vocal lines to avoid the highest notes. 

So Callas, as with so many other roles, rules. Still Norma is such a complex part that there is room for other approaches. Both Caballé with her sublime pianissimi and Sutherland with her silvery tone brought a beauty to the part that at times eluded Callas. Plus, in different ways other singers such as Souliotis and Scotto have brought other qualities to the table as well.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

> Three sopranos sang it at the MET this season. In my estimation only one totally conquered the part.* Surprisingly that was Marina Rebeka*. I saw her first performance in the house and she was the closest thing to Callas, Caballé, and Sutherland.


Marina is on my watch list also, there is a fire in her spirit that shows in her style and delivery, she has my attention when she sings!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Rossiniano said:


> Callas, Caballé, and Sutherland were the great Normas of the second half of the Twentieth Century. I have listed them in the order of their greatness in my estimation. Of those who sang it previously we only really have Cigna and Milanov documented in complete performances of the role. They were pretenders to the throne, but in fairness approached the piece through the prism of their time, which is to say that it was not in the Bel Canto tradition. Of those who sang the role earlier in the century, Ponselle gets the best press, but contemporary reviews still indicate that she was not always ideally perfect in the part. Actually, years ago Richard Bonynge stated that the perfect Norma probably never existed and probably never will exist. That was surely the case regarding his wife (Joan Sutherland) even though she could be quite formidable vocally when on top of her game. In fact most of the drawbacks of many of the singers who have attempted the part in the past have been already touched upon in this thread.
> 
> Three sopranos sang it at the MET this season. In my estimation only one totally conquered the part. Surprisingly that was Marina Rebeka. I saw her first performance in the house and she was the closest thing to Callas, Caballé, and Sutherland. The other two (Radvanowsky and Meade) were only heard via broadcast and their performances were plagued by sketchy and at times downright inaccurate coloratura and less than pleasant tonal qualities. I also have a recording of the performance that I attended and have listened to it twice. It confirmed my impression that Rebeka is probably the best exponent of the role at the present time. Indeed I was mildly impressed by a recording of her first assumption of the part and she has improved immeasurably since then.
> 
> ...


It is worth mentioning that Callas and Simionato sang the duets in the original, higher keys when repeated her Norma at Covent Garden in the 1953 season. Apparently she was quite piqued, on behalf of Simionato, that none of the critics appeared to have noticed. She also sang _Casta diva_ in the higher key of G, which Andrew Porter thought suited her voice better. Unfortunately the only opera broadcast from that 1953 season was *Aida*. I would love to have heard this *Norma* with Simionato and the *Il Trovatore* that followed it, which actually garnered her the best reviews of the season.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

GregMitchell said:


> It is worth mentioning that Callas and Simionato sang the duets in the original, higher keys when repeated her Norma at Covent Garden in the 1953 season. Apparently she was quite piqued, on behalf of Simionato, that none of the critics appeared to have noticed. She also sang _Casta diva_ in the higher key of G, which Andrew Porter thought suited her voice better. Unfortunately the only opera broadcast from that 1953 season was *Aida*. I would love to have heard this *Norma* with Simionato and the *Il Trovatore* that followed it, which actually garnered her the best reviews of the season.


Yes, it is unfortunate that Callas singing Casta Diva in G was never preserved in sound. Of course I could list many other situations where broadcast microphones should have captured La Divina on top of her game.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

DarkAngel said:


> Marina is on my watch list also, there is a fire in her spirit that shows in her style and delivery, she has my attention when she sings!


I first heard Marina Rebeka live as Matilde in _Guillaume Tell _at the MET in 2016. She was fine, but her coloratura in her Act Three aria had a touch (actually just a tad) of the aspirated "Deutekom approach". Of course that aria is really not as florid as earlier Rossini arias from his Italian operas and more in line with Bellini's vocal writing. She obviously worked on smoothing out her delivery of florid passages in the interim because she delivered the florid passages in _Norma_ as well as anyone and far better than the current MET competition. Plus, she certainly has "fire in her spirit". So definitely a singer to watch! Indeed, I have been impressed with the strides she has made in the past couple of years.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Rossiniano said:


> It also proves my belief that Adalgisa should be sung by a singer capable of singing the lead role. That is both Norma and Adalgisa should have the wide range of a soprano as opposed to the mezzos with a short top who traditionally sing Adalgisa and have to alter or transpose the vocal lines to avoid the highest notes.


I sort of agree. In my mind, the most noteworthy difference between the right kind of singer for Norma vs Adelgisa is that Norma is heavier, darker and, in certain parts, nastier. The trend of all these rich, dark, dramatic mezzo voices singing what is supposed to be a virginal druidic shrine girl is just....not very convincing. If it is to be sung by a mezzo, it should be done by a lighter one with some "soprano-y" shimmer and not so much darkness or weight. Joyce Didonato is a good example. Otherwise, a lyric soprano with a creamier middle range would do nicely. Say, Anna Moffo or Mary Costa.



> So Callas, as with so many other roles, rules. Still Norma is such a complex part that there is room for other approaches. Both Caballé with her sublime pianissimi and Sutherland with her silvery tone brought a beauty to the part that at times eluded Callas. Plus, in different ways other singers such as Souliotis and Scotto have brought other qualities to the table as well.


My only qualm with this assertion is Scotto: a spunky lyric voice that likes to sing aggressively is still a lyric voice, and one which was far too light to justify approaching Norma. I like her much more during the times she decided to sing rep like Musetta and Gilda rather than Norma or Lady Macbeth.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Adalgisa, soprano or mezzo?. In this case, my preferred approach is philological.


Between the dissapearance of the 'castrato' from the Italian operatic stage towards the end of the 18th century, and the undisputed emergence of the tenor as the main male role around the 1830s, in many operas the male protagonist was a trouser role, usually trusted to a female contralto.




The composer differentiated in the score the trouser rol and the female protagonist, by playing with the range and the tessitura, as we can easily understand listening for instance to Tancredi and Amenaide.


However, when we are talking about the 'seconda donna' in an opera with soprano and tenor, like in Norma, the differences in range are minimal (usually the 'prima donna' descends to a semitone or a full tone lower, while the top notes are the same pitch, or just a semitone higher). The true characterization was in the singing style; more coloratura and 'fioriture' for the 'prima donna', that got the higher notes in the ensembles while her tessitura lies somewhat higher, too.


With the decision to use mezzos (and even dramatic mezzos!) to portrait this 'seconda donna', we are very far indeed from the original intention, and while in the 19th century Giuditta Pasta sang Tancredi and Norma, in the 20th, it was Marilyn Horne singing Tancredi and Adalgisa.


I prefer a lyric soprano singing Adalgisa (though Horne, and other mezzos, were great Adalgisas, of course).


In fact, the ideal Adalgisa in record would be, in my view, Montserrat Caballé. Unfortunately, she recorded the role already late in her career, and she was not in her best vocal form, but even so her voice and singing style were just about perfect.


My favorite Adalgisa watched live on stage, is Carmela Remigio.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

schigolch said:


> Adalgisa, soprano or mezzo?. In this case, my preferred approach is philological.
> 
> Between the dissapearance of the 'castrato' from the Italian operatic stage towards the end of the 18th century, and the undisputed emergence of the tenor as the main male role around the 1830s, in many operas the male protagonist was a trouser role, usually trusted to a female contralto.
> 
> ...


This might be a controversial opinion, but I sometimes think Sutherland as Adalgisa would have made a great foil to Callas's Norma.

Apparently, when the Callas/Tebaldi feud was raging at its height, Walter Legge mooted the proposal that they should both appear in *Norma*, alternating in the two roles. Callas was quite excited at the prospect, but Tebaldi demurred. She presumably knew that, in this of all operas, Callas would have the advantage, whichever role she sang.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Apparently, when the Callas/Tebaldi feud was raging at its height, Walter Legge mooted the proposal that they should both appear in *Norma*, alternating in the two roles. Callas was quite excited at the prospect, but Tebaldi demurred. She presumably knew that, in this of all operas, Callas would have the advantage, whichever role she sang.


Did Tebaldi sing _any_ complete Bel Canto role? It may be she didn't feel it was right for her in general. I think Tebaldi might have been quite happy to undertake a recording with Callas (Turandot might have been possible had they not been on different labels), after all Tebaldi sold far more records than Callas did at the time they were both making recordings. Tebaldi may have thought (mistakenly) that not being able to see Callas would play to Tebaldi's strength of having a voice of extreme vocal purity.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Did Tebaldi sing _any_ complete Bel Canto role? It may be she didn't feel it was right for her in general. I think Tebaldi might have been quite happy to undertake a recording with Callas (Turandot might have been possible had they not been on different labels), after all Tebaldi sold far more records than Callas did at the time they were both making recordings. Tebaldi may have thought (mistakenly) that not being able to see Callas would play to Tebaldi's strength of having a voice of extreme vocal purity.
> 
> N.


I think the closest she got to _bel canto_ was probably Verdi's *Giovanna d'Arco*, which she sang early in her career. She's pretty impressive actually, though she does smudge some of the coloratura.

She also recorded _Casta diva_ late in her career, but it really isn't very good. If she'd liked the idea of them recording *Turandot* together, that was no doubt because Puccini was far more her natural metier than Callas's. Conversely Callas no doubt loved the idea of them doing *Norma* together, because she knew she'd walk away with the honours in Bellini.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

As schigolch rightfully states above Adalgisa is a SOPRANO role. The original Adalgisa soon graduated to the lead role as I noted in an earlier post. Not even Marilyn Horne realized that, or if she did it was an excuse to transpose things down to avoid the highest notes, plus the rewritten passage to avoid the high C in the first act duet with Norma as she did on stage if not on the recording. In an interview she noted that in _Semiramide_ Rossini, due to his great knowledge of the human voice, had Arsace singing "his" portions of the duets in a lower key, while Bellini (the implication was that he didn't quite know what he was doing!?!?) kept Adalgisa in the same key as Norma thus making things more "difficult". Sure, as the protagonist Norma usually has the upper line when the two sing together, but NOT always and basically the range and tessitura is the same for both roles. Plus, Arsace is a contralto role and the furthest thing from what Adalgisa embodies!

For the record I like Horne's Adalgisa and she is one of the better mezzo exponents of the part.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

The Conte said:


> Did Tebaldi sing _any_ complete Bel Canto role? It may be she didn't feel it was right for her in general. I think Tebaldi might have been quite happy to undertake a recording with Callas (Turandot might have been possible had they not been on different labels), after all Tebaldi sold far more records than Callas did at the time they were both making recordings. Tebaldi may have thought (mistakenly) that not being able to see Callas would play to Tebaldi's strength of having a voice of extreme vocal purity.
> 
> N.


Tebaldi sang Pamira in the Italian version of _Le Siège de Corinthe (L'Assedio di Corinto_) at the Teatro San Carlo in Naples in 1952. Of course being written for Paris the role is a bit less florid than the role of Anna in _Maometto Secondo_ which was the basis for _Le Siège_. Add in substantial cuts plus slow tempi and the result was not quite typical of your average Bel Canto opera as performed nowadays.

Samples from YouTube:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Conversely Callas no doubt loved the idea of them doing *Norma* together, because she knew she'd walk away with the honours in Bellini.


Do we know that Callas was keen on the idea? I can't imagine her wanting to sing Adalgisa. Whilst I can see the attraction of it, I think it's a dangerous idea, just think of the medics they would have needed on hand to deal with the fans' injuries!

N.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rossiniano said:


> I first heard Marina Rebeka live as Matilde in _Guillaume Tell _at the MET in 2016. She was fine, but her coloratura in her Act Three aria had a touch (actually just a tad) of the aspirated "Deutekom approach". Of course that aria is really not as florid as earlier Rossini arias from his Italian operas and more in line with Bellini's vocal writing. She obviously worked on smoothing out her delivery of florid passages in the interim because she delivered the florid passages in _Norma_ as well as anyone and far better than the current MET competition. Plus, she certainly has "fire in her spirit". So definitely a singer to watch! Indeed, I have been impressed with the strides she has made in the past couple of years.


*I am also watching closely bulgarian Sonya Yoncheva*, a great Norma performance from ROH that was just released on video (many question the production and supporting cast), Sonya easily surpasses popular recent Radvanovsky Norma video singing effort for me, listen to that explosive opening "fin al rito" I have not heard this dramatic power from any modern singers, she really has the scale of voice and emotional passion to do this justice in modern sound......brava


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

The Conte said:


> Do we know that Callas was keen on the idea? I can't imagine her wanting to sing Adalgisa. Whilst I can see the attraction of it, I think it's a dangerous idea, just think of the medics they would have needed on hand to deal with the fans' injuries!
> 
> N.


it was before my time, but I have always wondered about how real the Callas-Tebaldi fuel actually was. Did not Giovanni Battista Meneghini suggest the it was all hype that the divas went along with in order to boost record sales? Of course to the fans it might have been construed as reality! in any event, here's the famous photo from 1968! I do remember when that was taken and supposedly it was proof of the armistice signaling the end of hostilities! I also recall reading at the time that during the height of the rivalry that Tebaldi feared Callas' "evil eye"! Sounds like tabloid hype to me!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> *I am also watching closely bulgarian Sonya Yoncheva*, a great Norma performance from ROH that was just released on video (many question the production and supporting cast), this easily surpasses recent Radvanosky Norma effort for me, listen to that explosive "fin al rito" (after casta diva) I have not heard this dramatic passion from any modern singers, she really has the scale of voice and emotional passion to do this justice in modern sound......brava


I went to the general rehearsal of those performances and was left rather underwhelmed by everyone except Sonia Ganassi as she was the only singer who was heart and soul into her role. I then caught one of the performances and it was Yoncheva and Calleja who rose to the occassion, leaving Ganassi in the shade. It was a fascinating experience to compare the two.

I thought Yoncheva was a fine Norma and more than capable of singing the role, she didn't blow me away, though.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Rossiniano said:


> it was before my time, but I have always wondered about how real the Callas-Tebaldi fuel actually was. Did not Giovanni Battista Meneghini suggest the it was all hype that the divas went along with in order to boost record sales? Of course to the fans it might have been construed as reality! in any event, here's the famous photo from 1968! I do remember when that was taken and supposedly it was proof of the armistice signaling the end of hostilities! I also recall reading at the time that during the height of the rivalry that Tebaldi feared Callas' "evil eye"! Sounds like tabloid hype to me!


Yes, my understanding is that it wasn't a feud in the traditional sense, however some of their fans fought their respective corners very fiercely!

N.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

DarkAngel said:


> *I am also watching closely bulgarian Sonya Yoncheva*, a great Norma performance from ROH that was just released on video (many question the production and supporting cast), this easily surpasses popular recent Radvanovsky Norma video effort for me, listen to that explosive "fin al rito" (after casta diva) I have not heard this dramatic passion from any modern singers, she really has the scale of voice and emotional passion to do this justice in modern sound......brava


I listened to the audio of this shortly after it was originally broadcast and Yoncheva definitely out classes Radvanowsky, and by quite a bit! However, when I viewed the video of the production that was posted online shortly there after, I could not get past the silly concept. Still, as I recently posted elsewhere here I think that Yoncheva might ultimately be better suited for Puccini. We shall see how things develop.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rossiniano said:


> I listened to the audio of this shortly after it was originally broadcast and Yoncheva definitely out classes Radvanowsky, and by quite a bit! However, when I viewed the video of the production that was posted online shortly there after, I could not get past the silly concept. Still, as I recently posted elsewhere here I think that Yoncheva might ultimately be better suited for Puccini. We shall see how things develop.


Sonya did have heavy dose of Puccini in 2017 with Tosca and Boheme, we really need her in future to sing lesser performed amazing bel canto soprano parts: Ernani, Luisa Miller, Attilla, Nabucco, Il Pirata etc

The audacity to launch your young professional career with Norma at ROH and to pull it off in amazing fashion.....that definitely commands attention! 

http://sonyayoncheva.com/en/calendar/past


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Do we know that Callas was keen on the idea? I can't imagine her wanting to sing Adalgisa. Whilst I can see the attraction of it, I think it's a dangerous idea, just think of the medics they would have needed on hand to deal with the fans' injuries!
> 
> N.


According to Walter Legge in _On and Off the Record_, Callas was excited by the idea, only being unsure as to whether she would prefer to sing Norma or Adalgisa first.


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Norman is an opera where we have to put our brain to bed more than most before we see it. Just how she managed to have children without anyone noticing and then keeping them clandestine does pose a problem for the intellect. The role of course is notoriously fearsome for a soprano with the other two roles, for mezzo and tenor coming not far behind. Like all Bellini it needs lots of interpreting as the orchestral music is not that interesting and the interest lies in the voices.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Star said:


> Norman is an opera...


I can't wait to see the opera 'Norman', is it based on Psycho?

N.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Star said:


> Norman is an opera where we have to put our brain to bed more than most before we see it. Just how she managed to have children without anyone noticing and then keeping them clandestine does pose a problem for the intellect. The role of course is notoriously fearsome for a soprano with the other two roles, for mezzo and tenor coming not far behind. Like all Bellini it needs lots of interpreting as the orchestral music is not that interesting and the interest lies in the voices.


The druidic robes were spacious, even Pollione mentions this fact when he describes his dream to Flavio. ("l'ampio mantel druidico" or some such). That comes in handy for covering up pregnancies. Also, she was high in the hierarchy and people obeyed her. She could declare some spaces as forbidden to enter.


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