# Composition Contest #1: Solo Composition



## musicrom

For our first composition contest, we will be doing solo compositions. Here's a re-post of the rules and information written by DaDirkNL:



DaDirkNL said:


> This thread is merely to make everything clear to participants and listeners.
> 
> *Ground rules*
> -Scores are NOT required
> -Some sort of contemporary style is recommended.
> _[...]
> _-Form is up to the participant
> _[...]
> _-Participants have ONE MONTH to post their entries. The month starts the day AFTER the poll for instrumentation closes.
> -The audio file the participant uploads should preferably be mp3, wav, etc. So that means it has to be accessible to everyone judging
> -Judging will be done by polls. I will create the polls the day after the deadline.
> 
> This should cover most of the questions asked. Should anyone have questions, wich I bet they will, post them on this thread.


And a couple additions:
- You may choose any one *NON-KEYBOARD* instrument for your compositions (meaning no piano, organ, etc.)
- There is no duration limit, but 3-5 minutes seems like a reasonable number
- Discussion about progress, ideas, questions, challenges, etc. can go in this thread, but please do not post your composition until there is less than a week left until the deadline (this is when I will add a thread for us to post all of them in - this way, everyone will be able to listen to each composition at the same time and it will be easier to keep track of the compositions)
- If you didn't vote in the poll, you can still participate! Those who did vote will be expected to post a composition, but if you end up realizing you don't have enough time, that's fine.
- The deadline is May 3rd, at 8:00 pm Eastern time. Please do your best to get your composition in by that time!

Thanks, and good luck!


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## musicrom

Does anyone know yet what instrument they're writing for? I'm thinking I'll probably write something for viola, but I haven't started yet, so I might change my mind.


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## Mahlerian

I've started writing mine already. It's for alto flute (which is a transposing instrument).


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## Crudblud

I'm thinking trombone.


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## DaDirkNL

I'm going for clarinet.


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## ricardo_jvc6

I'm thinking about Trumpet in Bb, Bass Trombone or Bass Clarinet. What should I go for?


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## Matsps

I'm very tempted for a triangle solo, which means my composition will likely be closer to three minutes than five...


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## PetrB

musicrom said:


> You may choose any one *NON-KEYBOARD* instrument for your compositions (meaning no piano, organ, etc.)


If you are looking to restrict this to single-line instruments, you should probably clearly announce that also excluded are:
Harp
The other keyboard-layout instruments such as Vibraphone; Marimba, etc.


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## Mahlerian

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> I'm thinking about Trumpet in Bb, Bass Trombone or Bass Clarinet. What should I go for?


Trumpet, because it's a family no one's mentioned yet. Of course, it's still your decision, but that would be my suggestion.


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## musicrom

PetrB said:


> If you are looking to restrict this to single-line instruments, you should probably clearly announce that also excluded are:
> Harp
> The other keyboard-layout instruments such as Vibraphone; Marimba, etc.


I'm not very familiar with the vibraphone or the marimba, but yeah, that's pretty much what I was going for.


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## Crudblud

Now that I have fully embraced the computer's capabilities as a musician, the temptation to have the trombone play a five note chord, each note articulated independently, is wearing on me.


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> Now that I have fully embraced the computer's capabilities as a musician, the temptation to have the trombone play a five note chord, each note articulated independently, is wearing on me.


:lol: So much is possible when not writing to the real technical capacities of the instrument :lol:

I used an alto flute sample (which was not range restricted to is lowest open note) way down in Tuba territory -- it sounded like a very sweet and delicate tuba which does not otherwise exist.

But, who knows, maybe one or more of the contestants are completely up on whatever multiphonics the wind instruments and their players are capable of (an acquaintance wrote a clarinet concerto, the solo clarinet opens the piece _with a series of vertical chords _ and their submission will blow all the competition out of the water!


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## Crudblud

PetrB said:


> :lol: So much is possible when not writing to the real technical capacities of the instrument :lol:


Well, that's my dilemma. Do I pretend that I'm writing for a physical trombone, or do I admit this is not the case and write for the instrument I'm actually using? The former will probably result in something very staid and uninteresting, as I contort myself to the limitations of an instrument I can't realistically write for, and the latter will probably result in disqualification or something like that, since I would really be writing music for a polyphonic instrument which can be played with a keyboard.


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> Well, that's my dilemma. Do I pretend that I'm writing for a physical trombone, or do I admit this is not the case and write for the instrument I'm actually using? The former will probably result in something very staid and uninteresting, as I contort myself to the limitations of an instrument I can't realistically write for, and the latter will probably result in disqualification or something like that, since I would really be writing music for a polyphonic instrument which can be played with a keyboard.


You don't pretend: _YOU ARE WRITING FOR A PHYSICAL TROMBONE_. Lol. I think you've been living in electronic Oz far too long to think these competition parameters could mean something else 

I'm a guessin' that the mode of thinkin had no one including the idea of a multi-track recording of one instrument (done often enough now, I suppose, to be an apart genre, i.e. homogeounous timbre source, then composite multi-tracks recorded), and that would be a big disqualification.

The challenge is to write for a SOLO single-line instrument and keep it interesting for say, three to five minutes.

I think it is about the most difficult type of piece to write: I think there are barely a handful of successful ones in the whole literature I would care to listen to -- and I wouldn't want to take on such a task. Even if it were a paid commission I would more than balk and hesitate, maybe turn it down... (I suppose that would depend on the amount of money you were dangling in front of me.)

Best regards.


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## Mahlerian

PetrB said:


> The challenge is to write for a SOLO single-line instrument and keep it interesting for say, three to five minutes.
> 
> I think it is about the most difficult type of piece to write: I think there are barely a handful of successful ones in the whole literature I would care to listen to -- and I wouldn't want to take on such a task. Even if it were a paid commission I would more than balk and hesitate, maybe turn it down... (I suppose that would depend on the amount of money you were dangling in front of me.)


The challenge that I see and have found already is that the problems of MIDI expression are made far worse when one has to concentrate on a single line. Other than that, yes, the problems of maintaining interest, of making sure the implied harmony makes sense, and keeping structural events separate without as much differentiation of timbre or register are what I'm finding.


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## Crudblud

PetrB said:


> You don't pretend: _YOU ARE WRITING FOR A PHYSICAL TROMBONE_. Lol. I think you've been living in electronic Oz far too long to think these competition parameters could mean something else .


My point is that the particulars of the instrument I am actually writing for make it possible to do so much beyond the limitations of the physical instrument upon which it is based, but all the while it remains a solo instrument. I'm not interested in weaselling around the rules, I am just curious as to what other people, participant or otherwise, think about it.


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## Mahlerian

Crudblud said:


> My point is that the particulars of the instrument I am actually writing for make it possible to do so much beyond the limitations of the physical instrument upon which it is based, but all the while it remains a solo instrument. I'm not interested in weaselling around the rules, I am just curious as to what other people, participant or otherwise, think about it.


Crudblud, I'm more interested in hearing what you want to create than hearing something by you that's been constrained in some manner to fit into a rigid set of rules. Of course, I really don't care much about the competition aspect beyond the fact that it's a good motivation to get something written, so others may feel differently.


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## Aramis

I'm looking forward to competing with all the fine TC composers! Can't deny having some jitters, though, upon thinking about the insightful judges that will scan through my little piece, I hope they will be indulgent!


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> My point is that the particulars of the instrument I am actually writing for make it possible to do so much beyond the limitations of the physical instrument upon which it is based, but all the while it remains a solo instrument. I'm not interested in weaselling around the rules, I am just curious as to what other people, participant or otherwise, think about it.


My think on it:

If you've got the tools, and make something 'of interest' with those, I'm all for it.

Where we differ at times and in general. I'm liking and loving a lot of what can be done with digital tools, samples, pure electronic manipulations, the lot of it. _Something 'unplayable' in reality can be just as worthwhile as a studio construct which is playable._ (Once it is pure electronics and in studio assemblage, there can be no criticizing it for not being something else.)

But when you are in the arena of samples of actual instruments, there might be some expectation that what is written is for real instruments and players. Just sayin.' Pieces which do not fit that description are often somehow marked as such, and then _any set expectations_ do not mislead or disappoint.

So, luxury of multi-track recording, samples and editors make a very real possibility for a piece using one sample, multi-tracking, and whether actually playable or not, having a very worthwhile piece come therefrom.

On the other hand, if it is 'just a trombone,' with all its usual and advanced technical capacities, including those effects and multiphonics, glissandi, etc. it would also be nice to write 'straight' for those capacities so an actual player could perform it.

There is nothing "illegitimate" about 'what you are,' i.e. self-taught, not (yet) able to notate, and what you make. _Proof of that is you have some of the most musical and interesting pieces up in the Today's Composers section_, and yet another proof -- you get paid to "write" music used in video games and films.

If the entire set of composers were like that -- there would be no live performances of anything, and I love live 

Another comp competition could be -- and I think it a good idea -- for 'tape / digital' pieces, i.e. those electronically assembled and with intent of no other performing media other than playback. Parameters may or may not include samples replicating actual acoustic instruments, or concretely designate whether the work be electro-acoustic, etc. That is a whole discussion maybe vote-on issue in itself. But for advocating and admitting works of that nature -- in general or for a competition on TC, I say bring'em on.


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## PetrB

Mahlerian said:


> Crudblud, I'm more interested in hearing what you want to create than hearing something by you that's been constrained in some manner to fit into a rigid set of rules. Of course, I really don't care much about the competition aspect beyond the fact that it's a good motivation to get something written, so others may feel differently.


Competitions always have some parameters of what instruments the piece is for, duration, etc. etc. etc. You have to take those for what they are, and either sign on or pass 'that one' by. The very idea, though, is a sort of real-world test ground of what you can do with what is available, and on a deadline. They are not for every composer, that is for sure. Boulez has accepted numbers of commissions, for which he has gained a notoriety of delivering works years later than stipulated in the contract: He is still Boulez


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> My point is that the particulars of the instrument I am actually writing for make it possible to do so much beyond the limitations of the physical instrument upon which it is based, but all the while it remains a solo instrument. I'm not interested in weaselling around the rules, I am just curious as to what other people, participant or otherwise, think about it.


Look at what you said -- "the particulars of the instrument I am actually writing for make it possible to do so much beyond the limitations of the physical instrument upon which it is based."

Thing is, friend, then you are no longer writing for the actual instrument  this here is about what a composer, writing for the in reality physical instrument (and its [most technically advanced] player), can do.

We have to accept the challenges and parameters of comp contests as they are.


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## mtmailey

musicrom said:


> Does anyone know yet what instrument they're writing for? I'm thinking I'll probably write something for viola, but I haven't started yet, so I might change my mind.


I have a guitar solo here both on paper & pdf files


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## musicrom

mtmailey said:


> I have a guitar solo here both on paper & pdf files


Have you already finished it after 5 days!?


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## PetrB

musicrom said:


> Have you already finished it after 5 days!?


Some work very quickly.

Some have completed pieces in a drawer which readily happen to fit the parameters of a competition or commission.

Some work so slowly they will never enter in any of these with the one-month deadline.

(Often, one can not tell at all from the piece itself how long it took the composer to write it.)


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## Crudblud

musicrom said:


> Have you already finished it after 5 days!?


But isn't a guitar solo against the rules? I thought the whole point was that we were writing for monophonic instruments?


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> But isn't a guitar solo against the rules? I thought the whole point was that we were writing for monophonic instruments?


I would think so since the final decision led to single-line instruments. It said generally 'no piano' but that implied no instrument which with inherently polyphonic capability, i.e. (though the viol family can play double-stops) I thought the rules "stopped" at any of those inherently polyphonic instruments, piano, organ, accordion, guitar, harp, the mallet percussion groups (who routinely use four mallets now) etc.


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## BurningDesire

PetrB said:


> I would think so since the final decision led to single-line instruments. It said generally 'no piano' but that implied no instrument which with inherently polyphonic capability, i.e. (though the viol family can play double-stops) I thought the rules "stopped" at any of those inherently polyphonic instruments, piano, organ, accordion, guitar, harp, the mallet percussion groups (who routinely use four mallets now) etc.


But one can produce multiphonics with wind instruments. And it is totally possible to compose a piece for piano that is monophonic. I am considering a piece for violin, but if thats not allowed, I have a piece for electric clarinet that I'll probably submit.


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## PetrB

BurningDesire said:


> But one can produce multiphonics with wind instruments. And it is totally possible to compose a piece for piano that is monophonic. I am considering a piece for violin, but if that's not allowed, I have a piece for electric clarinet that I'll probably submit.


Multiphonics are still generated by those (limited) single-line instruments, ergo, all fair in that particular contest of love / war. There are but a handful generally known to be reliable enough available in lists somewhere -- one usually has to really well research the instrument and consult with players to get the real dope -- and I really wonder just which ones, if any, are actually available in the generally available midi / instrumental sample packages 

It is unfortunate that what was settled upon _was not made as clear as it should have been_: competition rules and restrictions are usually quite explicit and leave no wiggle room or doubt -- the 'solo instrument, no piano, etc.' was really not explicit enough.

Yes, one-note at a time / no double stops / no multiphonics could be a competition parameter, regardless of instrument, but that was not what was done for this particular run.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I have a cello thing going in my head. 

I'm thinkig I'll try and get down a two minute piece.


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## Matsps

I thought the rules were pretty clear - No keyboard instruments. 

In other news, my solo is finished.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Okay I just finished the composition. This will help me with writing essays in exam conditions at school.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Input that baby into the computer and the piece is called "Quite Fast"
Following stream of thoughts after hearing the playback:
Those two bars need a crescendo
The melody has quite a small range, but it works 
Hmmmm......actually I think there is somethin missing....
Okay this piece needs another movement. 
A slow one!
I already have a fast one...
Okay this new movement will be called "Quite Slow."
I will give the melodies a greater range...
Serial? Perhaps....I could use my favourite matrix. 
This will create quite a contrast!
I think I'll call the finished two movement work "Quite a Sonatina" for solo cello.


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## PetrB

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Input that baby into the computer and the piece is called "Quite Fast"
> Following stream of thoughts after hearing the playback:
> Those two bars need a crescendo
> *Hmmmm...*
> The melody has quite a small range, but it works
> *Hmmmm...*
> Hmmmm......actually I think there is somethin missing....
> *Hmmmm...*
> Okay this piece needs another movement.
> A slow one!
> I already have a fast one...
> *Hmmmm...*
> Okay this new movement will be called "Quite Slow."
> I will give the melodies a greater range...
> *Hmmmm...*
> Serial? Perhaps....I could use my favourite matrix.
> This will create quite a contrast!
> *Hmmmm...*
> I think I'll call the finished two movement work "Quite a Sonatina" for solo cello.


*Hmmmm...*

When it is actual notes, realized in actual sound, then, maybe *Hmmmm...* we can actually hear what it is and react


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## musicrom

Matsps said:


> I thought the rules were pretty clear - No keyboard instruments.
> 
> In other news, my solo is finished.


Was your solo composition for triangle?


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## Matsps

Erm... I kinda did it for tubular bells instead.


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## mtmailey

musicrom said:


> Have you already finished it after 5 days!?


It was been done for a while just had it on paper when i got the software then i made to sheet music.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

SCREW THAT CELLO PIECE

I just composed an aria for solo voice and I will practise it and record it and upload it for the competition.


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## PetrB

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> SCREW THAT CELLO PIECE
> 
> I just composed an aria for solo voice and I will practise it and record it and upload it for the competition.


_with or without text?_ Just curious....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

PetrB said:


> _with or without text?_ Just curious....


Without text

AND it's in graphic notation

AND it has these weird lip pops in one section


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## PetrB

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Without text
> 
> AND it's in graphic notation
> 
> AND it has these weird lip pops in one section


No Khoisan clicks?


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## Mahlerian

My piece is moving slowly but surely. It's more than half completed at this point. I'm very frustrated with the inability of MuseScore to render certain things (like trills) , which will make the final Mp3 even less representative of the music I wrote than normal. That, and any wind patches on that program sound awful.

That said, I'm enjoying writing the piece, and hope that I will be able to finish on time.


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## Crudblud

My piece is close to being finished. Mostly I'm just refining and smoothing it out now, parts of it still sound clunky where no clunk is intended.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Without text
> *AND it's in graphic notation
> AND it has these weird lip pops in one section*


Hey COAG, you been studyin' _Anticredos_ by Trevor *Wishart*?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

TalkingHead said:


> Hey COAG, you been studyin' _Anticredos_ by Trevor *Wishart*?


No I haven't. Tell me about it.


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## Guest

Hi COAG. 
If you're into weird lip pops, then Wishart's _Anticredos_ will give you that and plenty more. Here's a link where you can hear a brief extract (N° 5) : 
http://www.allmusic.com/album/trevor-wishart-red-bird-anticredos-mw0000628649

The score (I have a copy, but you can get one from the University of York Music Press) is the most wondrous and precise I have ever seen. I've been scouring the web looking for an image to post here to show you, but no luck.


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## Matsps

Mahlerian said:


> inability of MuseScore to render certain things (like trills)


You can just write the notes of the trill in.


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## PetrB

Mahlerian said:


> frustrated with the inability of MuseScore to render certain things (like trills).





Matsps said:


> You can just write the notes of the trill in.


Or save yourself a lot of time and grief and purchase the most basic _Finale_ software package (ca. $50?) -- which I believe is already "there" with some of the basics MuseScore misses, possibly even in their paid version. If you do, you can upgrade the Finale at any time.

If I'm not mistaken, Finale also comes with the same Garittan sound samples which are now making squawks and bleats and toots in homes, on the internet worldwide, and thereby offending the ears of music lovers everywhere.


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## Crudblud

Okay, I'm done. Though I cannot find the post, I recall it being stated there will be another thread to post the entries in, so when's it? If now, where's it?


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## Matsps

Crudblud said:


> Okay, I'm done. Though I cannot find the post, I recall it being stated there will be another thread to post the entries in, so when's it? If now, where's it?


Someone (who?) said they would put up that post approx. one week before the end of April.


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## musicrom

Matsps said:


> Someone (who?) said they would put up that post approx. one week before the end of April.


That is correct. I wrote I would put up the thread about one week prior to the deadline. I'm just wondering though; is anonymity a concern for you guys in terms of the judging? We could simply post them in the thread, or I could have you guys send me the compositions and I could post all of them (although I worry that some of the anonymity was already lost and at this point there isn't much of a point to do that and that we will all just have to do our best in voting without bias).


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## Mahlerian

Given that we've already revealed the instruments we're writing for, I doubt there's much chance of anonymity left.

It's not a big concern for me.


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## Vasks

As I'm sitting this contest out (I'm way too busy writing a high-energy mixed quintet piece) I thought I'd chime in about anonymity. I do think you guys blew it by announcing your instrumentation. Human nature will allow at least some bias to come into play, although personally I haven't heard any of you contest folks' works so less bias from me, but then again I don't know if I'm allow to vote.


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## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> Okay, I'm done. Though I cannot find the post, I recall it being stated there will be another thread to post the entries in, so when's it? If now, where's it?


Mooooom, Daaaaad, _*Are we there yet?*_


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## ricardo_jvc6

I'm still working on my Trumpet in Bb piece. I'm using a combination of Avant-Garde with Jazz. Sounds pretty fair!


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## BurningDesire

Okay, I have an idea which I will run with. Get ready for something interesting :3

It will be a piece for bass guitar~


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## Majed Al Shamsi

I hope it's not too late to ask, but...
When exactly is (was?) the deadline?


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## Mahlerian

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> I hope it's not too late to ask, but...
> When exactly is (was?) the deadline?


May 3rd at 8PM ET. You can submit your piece at any time between now and then.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Mahlerian said:


> May 3rd at 8PM ET. You can submit your piece at any time between now and then.


Thank you. (These are just extra characters to meet the minimum number per comment. It's like Twitter all over again.)


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## musicrom

Just a reminder: the contest's deadline is May 3rd at 8pm ET. 
Please submit your compositions here:
http://www.talkclassical.com/31790-composition-contest-1-submissions.html


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## Mahlerian

Is there a possibility that more people might be able to get it in if the deadline were extended a week? I'd like to hear more of the works that people mentioned above.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

I second what Mahlerian said.
What's the rush?


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## musicrom

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> I second what Mahlerian said.
> What's the rush?


There isn't any rush, but there has to be some deadline and one month ago we set the deadline to May 3rd. If less than half of the people that voted on the poll (less than 8) submit a composition by the deadline because they simply need more time to finish it, then I would certainly be open to extending the deadline by one week, but I want to make sure that those that voted are actually going to submit compositions.


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## DaDirkNL

musicrom said:


> There isn't any rush, but there has to be some deadline and one month ago we set the deadline to May 3rd. If less than half of the people that voted on the poll (less than 8) submit a composition by the deadline because they simply need more time to finish it, then I would certainly be open to extending the deadline by one week, but I want to make sure that those that voted are actually going to submit compositions.


I am so sorry. I have been incredibly busy and I have finals coming up in 1 week so I really can't post anything.


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## Matsps

I have mine ready. I just need to wait until I'm in the city tomorrow to upload the file (currently on rather slow mobile internet in the deep countryside).


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## musicrom

DaDirkNL said:


> I am so sorry. I have been incredibly busy and I have finals coming up in 1 week so I really can't post anything.


That's all right. I understand. 
I have finals soon as well, which is why I haven't posted my composition yet either. Do you think you would be able to post a composition if I extended the deadline by like 10 days, or do you think you won't have enough time?


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## musicrom

IF YOU VOTED ON THE INITIAL POLL OR WERE PLANNING TO COMPOSE A PIECE FOR THIS CONCERT:
Please update me on your status (if you're planning to submit, you need more time, or you're not planning to submit)! The tentative deadline is still tomorrow, and I need more input before I decide to push the deadline back a week.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Is it too late now..?


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## musicrom

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Is it too late now..?


Oh wait... I thought today was May 3rd... Umm... I don't know how that happened...
Do you have a composition ready? If so, feel free to post it in the submissions thread.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

musicrom said:


> Oh wait... I thought today was May 3rd... Umm... I don't know how that happened...
> Do you have a composition ready? If so, feel free to post it in the submissions thread.


You're one hell of a funny man...
I would, if the deadline would be pushed back a week.


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## musicrom

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> You're one hell of a funny man...
> I would, if the deadline would be pushed back a week.


I think I'm going to push the deadline back one more week. The competition won't be quite so interesting with only 3 submissions, and it looks like there could be maybe 5 more submitted if I add a week potentially. So...

THE DEADLINE IS NOW SATURDAY, MAY 10 AT 8:00 PM EST! Please submit your compositions by that time!


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## Majed Al Shamsi

musicrom said:


> I think I'm going to push the deadline back one more week. The competition won't be quite so interesting with only 3 submissions, and it looks like there could be maybe 5 more submitted if I add a week potentially. So...
> 
> THE DEADLINE IS NOW SATURDAY, MAY 10 AT 8:00 PM EST! Please submit your compositions by that time!


Much appreciated.


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## PetrB

musicrom said:


> I think I'm going to push the deadline back one more week. The competition won't be quite so interesting with only 3 submissions, and it looks like there could be maybe 5 more submitted if I add a week potentially. So...
> 
> THE DEADLINE IS NOW SATURDAY, MAY 10 AT 8:00 PM EST! Please submit your compositions by that time!


Good fellow. Between a busier time of year for some, and that only three entries, let's hope for a few more pieces to keep it a little more interesting.

And, yeah, anonymity has been blown by all the pre-submission chat, composers saying which instrument, etc.

Next time, I strongly advocate total anonymity until the last voting rounds down to the the last man woman or child standing as the final winner.

It would also be hysterical, and pretty 'real world,' if only the finalists, semifinalists and winners were named


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## musicrom

Speaking of voting, how do you guys think we should vote for this round (who can vote, how many compositions can you vote for, how to vote)? I don't know what it was like in past contests.


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## Crudblud

I think in previous competitions people gave their top three choices, and each slot gave the piece chosen a certain number of points, e.g.: 1st place = 3 pts, 2nd = 2 pts, 3rd = 1, and once voting closed the scores were tallied.


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## musicrom

Crudblud said:


> I think in previous competitions people gave their top three choices, and each slot gave the piece chosen a certain number of points, e.g.: 1st place = 3 pts, 2nd = 2 pts, 3rd = 1, and once voting closed the scores were tallied.


Okay, that sounds good to me. Would it be best to do this through PM to keep votes confidential?


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## Crudblud

musicrom said:


> Okay, that sounds good to me. Would it be best to do this through PM to keep votes confidential?


They were public in the old competitions, though the identities of the composers themselves were kept secret until the votes were in. In a friendly contest like this, I don't think that kind of secrecy really matters.


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## musicrom

Okay, so long as nobody objects to that or wants to vote anonymously, that is what we will do. As for who can vote, is it normally participants or is it open to everyone?


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## Majed Al Shamsi

I think it should be open for everyone, provided that they have been members before the competition was announced.
Wouldn't want any lifeless people (like me) to create fake accounts and vote for their own compositions, now would we?


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## musicrom

Just a reminder that the deadline is tomorrow!


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## Majed Al Shamsi

I may have something, but the audio quality is horrible on MuseScore.
Is there any way to improve it? Or perhaps save it as a midi file, and then convert it to MP3 using a different software?


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## musicrom

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> I may have something, but the audio quality is horrible on MuseScore.
> Is there any way to improve it? Or perhaps save it as a midi file, and then convert it to MP3 using a different software?


I'm by no means an expert with this, but on MuseScore, when you save the file, you can save it as multiple different types of files, and some of them sound different from each other. You could maybe test the different file types and see if there are any that sound good.


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## PetrB

musicrom said:


> Okay, so long as nobody objects to that or wants to vote anonymously, that is what we will do. As for who can vote, is it normally participants or is it open to everyone?


Unless the contest or composers are a private membership group (not the case here) -- the voting is open to any and all TC members, and there is no controlling that.

I can not imagine why the voting of this or another TC competition should be closed, cannot imagine further how one would go about vetting 'qualified' voters... some of the composers in today's composers _imo_ are no where near as qualified to judge a piece as are some of the TC members who play no instrument, write no music, and are 'just' informed listeners.

I would find a bit intriguing if His Nibs, professional composer and owner of this site, had some deciding vote but I doubt if he would want to publicly take sides at all. I imagine Mr. Magle can cast his one vote like any other member, but will leave that to everyone's imagination if he does or does not vote in these comp contests. It is a fun thought, at any rate


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> I may have something, but the audio quality is horrible on MuseScore.
> Is there any way to improve it? Or perhaps save it as a midi file, and then convert it to MP3 using a different software?


A basic midi file can be imported to about any other score software (like Finale.) Finale uses the Garriton sound samples, which are if not the same only slightly better than the MuseScore samples, or to any desktop recording software (Cubase / ProTools, etc) to then drive a better quality sample.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Musicrom - Yes, I can save the file as .wav, but it has the exact terrible quality you get when you play the sheet music on MuseScore itself.

PetrB - After mentioning Finale on the thread I started a few days ago, I've been meaning to purchase the software. It's going to take me a few weeks though, and the competition's deadline is tomorrow.


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Musicrom - Yes, I can save the file as .wav, but it has the exact terrible quality you get when you play the sheet music on MuseScore itself.
> 
> PetrB - After mentioning Finale on the thread I started a few days ago, I've been meaning to purchase the software. It's going to take me a few weeks though, and the competition's deadline is tomorrow.


Well, at the risk they will never sponsor me, the Garritan sound library which comes with Finale is, imo, dreadful. I would by no stretch of the imagination think them 'acceptable' virtual instrument samples  It is the score program which is superior, not the samples.

Good quality sound samples are going to cost you, the first level 'full orchestral' set are by Quantum East-West, the "Gold" complete orchestral set used to retail ca. U.S.D. $495.oo. 
http://www.soundsonline.com/Symphonic-Orchestra
while I noticed their "Gold" symphonic sets are on sale now for U.S.D. $247.50 (!) (The firm in the following link are highly reputable, and I have used them with satisfaction myself -- no, I get no credit or commission, they are just a very healthily competitive priced firm with good gear.)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Sweetwater+orchestral+sound+library&Go=Search
Many people use these, though I find the basic envelopes more than a little too 'Hollywood vibrato' styled schmaltzy sweet: I think if you know enough, you can adjust the envelopes for a more preferred 'customized' style of delivery, which is a bit labor intensive, though a one-time job once you get them set to your liking.

The next cut up, I understand, are the Vienna Orchestral samples. There are various 'bundles,' orchestral, sections and solo strings, etc. and even through an outlet like the one in the link below, they are rather (ouch!) expensive, leaving them more in the arena of higher end commercial studios, film studios, etc.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Vienna_Symphonic_Library?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=vendors&utm_term=vienna_symphonic_library&adpos=1t1&creative=9300527281&device=c&network=g&matchtype=b&gclid=CMmGj8LVoL4CFU8Q7Aod5WEA4w

There are other individual string packages, brass, percussion etc, but by the time you purchase one, then the other, you will pay less total if you go for one of the fuller orchestral package deals. There are also other individual sound files via the internet, some 'free' some not, but I would check those thoroughly for reliability, etc. before taking the plunge.


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Musicrom - Yes, I can save the file as .wav, but it has the exact terrible quality you get when you play the sheet music on MuseScore itself.
> 
> PetrB - After mentioning Finale on the thread I started a few days ago, I've been meaning to purchase the software. It's going to take me a few weeks though, and the competition's deadline is tomorrow.


A Wav. file is a recording of whatever you have. A midi file is a virtual 'piano roll,' i.e. it drives the note data via whatever desktop recorder or score software with midi to whichever sample you have.


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## Crudblud

If you can, always go for clean and versatile studio recorded libraries. A concert hall based library (as in East West's Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra) sounds nice on a sample by sample basis, but the fact that the impulse response of the hall is instanced separately in each sample means that it will not sound believable the moment more than one sample is sounding at any given time. Using clean samples it is quite easy to simulate a hall with believable results environment through considered application of reverb.

Vienna Symphonic Library (which I believe is what PetrB means by "Vienna Orchestral") is very fine indeed, both for full orchestra and solo instruments, but one should consider not only the cost of the library but the hardware necessary to use it properly. A purpose built machine will add a few grand to the already steep asking price.


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## Piwikiwi

Crudblud said:


> If you can, always go for clean and versatile studio recorded libraries. A concert hall based library (as in East West's Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra) sounds nice on a sample by sample basis, but the fact that the impulse response of the hall is instanced separately in each sample means that it will not sound believable the moment more than one sample is sounding at any given time. Using clean samples it is quite easy to simulate a hall with believable results environment through considered application of reverb.
> 
> Vienna Symphonic Library (which I believe is what PetrB means by "Vienna Orchestral") is very fine indeed, both for full orchestra and solo instruments, but one should consider not only the cost of the library but the hardware necessary to use it properly. A purpose built machine will add a few grand to the already steep asking price.


This might be a dump question but how do you use those sound libraries to play the music you write in Finale or sibelius?


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Sadly, I'm going to sit this one out. Not very pleased with what I've written, never mind the sound quality of it.
Perhaps I'll have Finale and a better composition for the next contest.
Good luck to everyone!
When do we vote?


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## ricardo_jvc6

I'm going to post my song in a few hours (3 hours around)! Need to mix it right!


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