# Appreciating Ferneyhough/suggestions?



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Now this may be a challenging thread to make myself, as I've been wanting to like Ferneyhoughs music but despite his interesting theories on instrument relations and performance complexity, I struggle to enjoy his music. 
I know some of you here will like his music, what pieces do you recommend? And which are an accurate representation of his ideas?

:tiphat:


----------



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Xenakiboy said:


> Now this may be a challenging thread to make myself, as I've been wanting to like Ferneyhoughs music but despite his interesting theories on instrument relations and performance complexity, I struggle to enjoy his music.
> I know some of you here will like his music, what pieces do you recomtmend? And which are an accurate representation of his ideas?
> 
> :tiphat:


Ferneyhough doesn't really have any 'gateway' pieces. His work can be quite thorny if you don't habitually follow high modernist music.


----------



## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

I often use a composer's string quartets as a 'gateway', Xenakiboy. For Ferneyhough the Arditti Quartet's complete works for string quartet and trio have been helpful.

This comprises the Sonatas for string quartet (1967); String Quartets Nos. 2-6 (1980-2010), with soprano Claron McFadden in No. 4; the Streichtrio (1994) and the String Trio (1995); Adagissimo (1983); Dum transisset I-IV (2006); and Exordium (2008). The Arditti excel in this repertoire.










However, I must admit that I haven't yet seriously looked beyond these Ferneyhough chamber works.


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

TurnaboutVox said:


> I often use a composer's string quartets as a 'gateway', Xenakiboy. For Ferneyhough the Arditti Quartet's complete works for string quartet and trio have been helpful.
> 
> This comprises the Sonatas for string quartet (1967); String Quartets Nos. 2-6 (1980-2010), with soprano Claron McFadden in No. 4; the Streichtrio (1994) and the String Trio (1995); Adagissimo (1983); Dum transisset I-IV (2006); and Exordium (2008). The Arditti excel in this repertoire.
> 
> ...


I've only listened to (out of the string music) String Quartet 6 and to be honest found it really dull and stagnant. Hopefully one of the other quartets will peak my interest. 
I'm listening to this at the moment:




Which is the piece I've listened to the most. 
It's interesting, full of very large clusters but feels like it really lacks dynamics (a little frustrating because it has potential to be a powerful piece!, like the artwork too)


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Xenakiboy said:


> Now this may be a challenging thread to make myself, as I've been wanting to like Ferneyhoughs music but despite his interesting theories on instrument relations and performance complexity, I struggle to enjoy his music.
> I know some of you here will like his music, what pieces do you recommend? And which are an accurate representation of his ideas?
> 
> :tiphat:


I am a great fan. I recommend the sixth quartet, O Lux, Transit, Etudes Transcendentales, Carceri, Plotzlichkeit, Funerailles. Also parts of the opera. Some of these things you need to have in good sound, Transit for example, YouTube is not good enough.

I don't really know what you're looking for when you ask for representations of the ideas, I certainly have looked about what he has to say about alchemy, about breakthrough, about shadows. But I don't anything about his musical ideas.


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

I do hear elements of Varese (orchestral music) , Stockhausen (piano music) and Webern (string music) in his music quite a bit, though something seems missing...


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm listening to this at the moment:




Which is the piece I've listened to the most. 
It's interesting, full of very large clusters but feels like it really lacks dynamics (a little frustrating because it has potential to be a powerful piece!, like the artwork too)[/QUOTE]

The artwork appears to be Roberto Matta, one of my favorite artists!










Sadly I have no Ferneyhough recommendations, but the piece above does seem to have dynamics to me.


----------



## Sina (Aug 3, 2012)

This! This! Just let yourself exposed to This!


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> I am a great fan. I recommend the sixth quartet, O Lux, Transit, Etudes Transcendentales, Carceri, Plotzlichkeit, Funerailles. Also parts of the opera. Some of these things you need to have in good sound, Transit for example, YouTube is not good enough.
> 
> I don't really know what you're looking for when you ask for representations of the ideas, I certainly have looked about what he has to say about alchemy, about breakthrough, about shadows. But I don't anything about his musical ideas.


I've heard a few time the 6th quartet, see above. 
I own the "Critical guides to contemporary composers" book on Ferneyhough and saw a sample of the score for O Lux, so I'll check that out next, alongside your other suggestions. Thanks! :tiphat:

From Scriabin and Zorn, I find the whole mysticism and alchemy interesting though I take it at face-value.


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Weston said:


> I'm listening to this at the moment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The artwork appears to be Roberto Matta, one of my favorite artists!










Sadly I have no Ferneyhough recommendations, but the piece above does seem to have dynamics to me.[/QUOTE]

It is beautiful art! I'm going to check out more of Roberto Matta's work!


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

This now: (before going into O Lux)




It is certainly more enjoyable than any previous pieces I've heard. Sounds more reminiscent of Varese and Zorn!


----------



## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I love this piece for flute:






About his opera "Shadowtime", it's a very interesting piece. Ferneyhough claimed this was a 'thought opera'. Indeed it's totally uninterested in anything narrative, in any Romantic schemas. Musically is very Ferneyhough, but a little bit uneven, in my view.


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

schigolch said:


> I love this piece for flute:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cassandra's Dream reminds me quite a bit of Takemitsu which is not bad! :tiphat:


----------



## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

TurnaboutVox said:


> I often use a composer's string quartets as a 'gateway', Xenakiboy. For Ferneyhough the Arditti Quartet's complete works for string quartet and trio have been helpful.


Greetings TurnaboutVox! What is it about the string quartet that makes you use it as a "gateway" to a composer's music? I've started to give this question a bit of thought because of all the composers who are new to me. I save any symphonies for last because they are just too unwieldy for me at the moment. I seem to start with any concerti first.


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> Greetings TurnaboutVox! What is it about the string quartet that makes you use it as a "gateway" to a composer's music? I've started to give this question a bit of thought because of all the composers who are new to me. I save any symphonies for last because they are just too unwieldy for me at the moment. I seem to start with any concerti first.


Interesting point actually. With Schnittke for instance (as we're Schittke lovers), I heard Symphony no 1 first and was amazed but not ready to experience the whole thing, so I listened to Concerto Grosso no 1 and fell in love with it. Then When I heard Symphony no 1, I enjoyed the whole thing and understood it and now I've heard a lot of Schnittke's work, including some of the String Quartet's, which really show his voice on an intimate level (obviously).

It might make a good thread discussion actually: what type of work is the best (generally) to understand a composer?


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

JosefinaHW said:


> Greetings TurnaboutVox! What is it about the string quartet that makes you use it as a "gateway" to a composer's music? I've started to give this question a bit of thought because of all the composers who are new to me. I save any symphonies for last because they are just too unwieldy for me at the moment. I seem to start with any concerti first.


Using string quartets as a gateway to a composer is a point many have been making for years.

One of my earliest posts addressed this: http://www.talkclassical.com/20480-elliott-carter-great-composer-2.html#post370333


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I think this guy does a good job. This might be the hardest piece ever for guitar, at least to understand from the score.


----------



## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Xenakiboy said:


> It might make a good thread discussion actually: what type of work is the best (generally) to understand a composer?


It would be an interesting thread for me, however, I don't think it should be phrased as "what type of work is best to understand.." --even generally-- because that really does vary with composer. For me, something like--you are going to begin to listen to a composer for the first time, maybe not yet knowing every/any work they composed, so how do you begin? Find a list of all works composed, then of those categories/types what type do you start with and why?.... Also, I'm starting to reconsider whether I want to read anything in detail about the composer or compositional approach--I'm starting just to want to listen and hear what I hear with my current ears. What are your thoughts on that as an approach to a new thread?


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

The Score is scary!!!  (and I own several Xenakis orchestra scores remember!, as the loyal fanboy I am)
http://5against4.com/2013/01/14/ferneyhough-week-la-terre-est-un-homme/


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

They have to pay me very heavy to sit trough this "music ":devil:


----------



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Pugg said:


> They have to pay me very heavy to sit trough this "music ":devil:


At least I'm in the middle ground here...
Though I don't deny it to be called "music"


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Pugg said:


> They have to pay me very heavy to sit trough this "music ":devil:


Why would they pay you if others, like me, do it for free


----------



## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Morimur said:


> Ferneyhough doesn't really have any 'gateway' pieces. His work can be quite thorny if you don't habitually follow high modernist music.


Some of his earlier works can be a more straightforward listen. They have less of... a large quantity of active channels in a heterogeneous mixture. Ferneyhough can get a bit exhausting in the pieces with a lot of busy, distinct channels. Or as Morimur puts it: thorny.

This thick piano/orchestra soundscape: 



 I find it an easier listen because it blends into a warm, glowing sun. I also recommend the piece Xenakiboy suggested.

Or this early "Sonatas for String Quartet": 



 This is quite sparse compared to his later quartets written in the past 10 years. It's easier to follow the distinct elements.

Time and motion study 2 for cello and electronics: 



 An exploration of timbre and texture.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

aleazk said:


> Why would they pay you if others, like me, do it for free


To fill in the auditorium, when my home town Rotterdam Philharmonic plays this you can almost get in for free .


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Pugg said:


> To fill in the auditorium, when my home town Rotterdam Philharmonic plays this you can almost get in for free .


Last time I went to a live modern music concert here the house was full... more or less


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I recently attended the Ojai Festival in California and every concert was a sellout.

About fifteen years ago I attended the Tanglewood festival that featured the music of Elliott Carter. I got to meet Carter. Every concert was a sellout. I have mentioned this before in other posts.

Note: I went and found some of my earlier posts:

http://www.talkclassical.com/44022-does-classical-music-still.html?highlight=carter#post1078234

http://www.talkclassical.com/39663-copland-defends-modernist-music-4.html?highlight=tanglewood#post933813

http://www.talkclassical.com/30237-has-serialism-had-its-2.html?highlight=tanglewood#post594898

If what I have said in the past is faulty, I really do not know what else I can say.


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

To respond to the Original Question As Stated In The Subject Line:

Start at the beginning.


----------

