# Which Opera Singer Had the Biggest Voice You've Ever Heard?



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

There are certainly other things that make a great singer besides the size of their voice, but it can really add to the excitement, especially in Verdi, Wagner and Strauss.
I missed all the Golden Age singers in their prime. The biggest I've heard were Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, Alessandra Marc and Jane Eaglen. Janice Baird was our Bruinhilde once. On the whole her voice was not outstandingly large, but her high note in the Dawn Duet was jawdroppingly huge... especially from a pipsqueak of a woman.
Tell me your experiences please. As you can see I am partial to female voices unlike some of you.
John


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> There are certainly other things that make a great singer besides the size of their voice, but it can really add to the excitement, especially in Verdi, Wagner and Strauss.
> I missed all the Golden Age singers in their prime. The biggest I've heard were Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, Alessandra Marc and Jane Eaglen. Janice Baird was our Bruinhilde once. On the whole her voice was not outstandingly large, but her high note in the Dawn Duet was jawdroppingly huge... especially from a pipsqueak of a woman.
> Tell me your experiences please. As you can see I am partial to female voices unlike some of you.
> John


The contralto Dame Clara Butt could drown out the orchestra and the chorus in the open in Hyde Park. I've certainly heard nothing like it in my life.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Honestly I often don't like big voices, particularly sopranos. Some of my least favourite singers, are ones who are widely admired, but have big voices. On the other hand I am devoted to Ewa Podleś and Stephanie Blythe - mezzos and contraltos are a whole different thing, and low notes way more interesting than high notes. Live, I'm not sure, my criteria are usually beauty of tone, phrasing, dynamic control, interpretation and acting ability, I don't really notice size of voice except if the singer is obviously being drowned by the orchestra.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Size aside, I heard Leontyne Price, who had that quality where once her mouth was open, you did not recognize a locus for the sound source, while the sound was _omnipresent in the hall, as if emanating from the very walls of the opera house,_ as if it was coming from your inner ear, whether it was pppp or ffff.

Beat that!


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## Evoken (Oct 13, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Some of my least favourite singers, are ones who are widely admired, but have big voices.


Share some names, who would those be?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, I usually don't go the theater carrying a sound meter, so I don't have hard facts, or statistics in decibels. 

However, I would say that maybe the biggest voice I have ever heard is that of Matti Salminen.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

With my limited live opera experience, the biggest voice I've heard in theatre came from this Italian tenor:






Perhaps I've heard bigger voice(s) in concert hall, but that's diffrent story.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

There are many beautiful powerful voices, but I can only think of a man: Franco Corelli. Of course, I haven't heard him live. For sopranos, mezzo I have no idea...My live experience is extremely limited.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

sabrina said:


> There are many beautiful powerful voices, but I can only think of a man: Franco Corelli. Of course, I hadn't heard him live. For sopranos, mezzo I have no idea...My live experience is extremely limited.


And before him, His Loudness himself, Mario del Monaco.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

For size of voice and quality of singing - try Alexander Sved, baritone who sang at the Met for a few years. Another would be Igor Gorin, also a baritone.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Honestly I often don't like big voices, particularly sopranos. Some of my least favourite singers, are ones who are widely admired, but have big voices. On the other hand I am devoted to Ewa Podleś and Stephanie Blythe - mezzos and contraltos are a whole different thing, and low notes way more interesting than high notes. Live, I'm not sure, my criteria are usually beauty of tone, phrasing, dynamic control, interpretation and acting ability, I don't really notice size of voice except if the singer is obviously being drowned by the orchestra.


I agree with much of what you say. 

I haven't heard many famous opera singers live in person, and my opera-going experience only extends back to 1998. Of the ones I have heard, Mark Delavan as Falstaff sounded huge in the small theater where I heard him; Dolora Zajick produced, even in soft passages, a very ample sound as Adalgisa (NORMA) in the Kennedy Center Opera House -- possibly hers is the biggest voice I've heard live.

Of the singers whose careers I missed, Joan Sutherland would seem to me to have had one of the biggest voices ever. J.B. Steane, who heard her regularly at Covent Garden, said it was a voice that seemed to be "everywhere at once," and even on recordings one can to some extent hear this, I think.

I do remember the soprano Ruth Ann Swenson on Met broadcasts. Now, it's hard to judge on the radio, but her voice sounded to me to have been so precisely "focused" that it seemed to float all over the auditorium. It obviously wasn't a big voice in the sense of "powerful and heroic," but it does sound as though it carried exceptionally well at all dynamic levels.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> I agree with much of what you say.
> 
> I haven't heard many famous opera singers live in person, and my opera-going experience only extends back to 1998. Of the ones I have heard, Mark Delavan as Falstaff sounded huge in the small theater where I heard him; Dolora Zajick produced, even in soft passages, a very ample sound as Adalgisa (NORMA) in the Kennedy Center Opera House -- possibly hers is the biggest voice I've heard live.
> 
> ...


That doesn't suprise me about Ruth Ann. I think she is often overlooked and undervalued. Every time I hear her on historic broadcasts on Sirius she impresses me. She was also very lovely. She had a warmth to her voice that was not that of your typical lyric coloratura.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Evoken said:


> Share some names, who would those be?


Leontyne Price, Birgit Nilsson and Joan Sutherland. Particularly the latter.

Now I'm going to get lynched.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Another contralto who fills your requirements here was Ernestine Schumann-Heink . She was a famous Wagnerian appearing at the Bayreuth Festival until the outbreak of World War I.
She became an American citizen and made her final appearance at the Met as Erda in "Rheingold" age 71 years.
Clara Butt and Mme Schumann-Heink made famous recordings of the Brindisi from Donizetti's "Lucretia Borgia". So what you have are coloratura contraltos and the sound is one to be reckoned with and low notes abound, real contraltos don't seem to appear anymore.
Verdi's original "Otello" was Francesco Tamagno . He made some recordings after retirement in 1903/4 and his voice is monstrous although somewhat faulty by that stage. He was that rare beast a "tenore di forza" with trumpet like clarity.
The baritone Apollo Granforte 1886/1975 was a highly successful Italian singer whose huge voice reflected his surname.
There are many recordings available.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

moody said:


> Another contralto who fills your requirements here was Ernestine Schumann-Heink . She was a famous Wagnerian appearing at the Bayreuth Festival until the outbreak of World War I.
> She became an American citizen and made her final appearance at the Met as Erda in "Rheingold" age 71 years.
> Clara Butt and Mme Schumann-Heink made famous recordings of the Brindisi from Donizetti's "Lucretia Borgia". So what you have are coloratura contraltos and the sound is one to be reckoned with and low notes abound, real contraltos don't seem to appear anymore.
> Verdi's original "Otello" was Francesco Tamagno . He made some recordings after retirement in 1903/4 and his voice is monstrous although somewhat faulty by that stage. He was that rare beast a "tenore di forza" with trumpet like clarity.
> ...


My mother frequently mentioned hearing Schumann-Heink in recital. Ewa Podles is one of the few true contraltos today.Supposedly having the orchestra tuned to a higher tone compared to the past has hurt contraltos a lot.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Leontyne Price, Birgit Nilsson and Joan Sutherland. Particularly the latter.
> 
> Now I'm going to get lynched.


 I'm curious why you mentioned Sutherland as having a larger voice than Nilsson. That is quite a statement! I had heard that above the staff her voice was equal to Nilsson's high C in volume.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Anyone with doubts about the quality of Nilsson's voice should listen to the closing on the Bohm Tristan. The voice soars through the orchestra like a steam whistle. Amazing!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My mother frequently mentioned hearing Schumann-Heink in recital. Ewa Podles is one of the few true contraltos today.Supposedly having the orchestra tuned to a higher tone compared to the past has hurt contraltos a lot.


I must be living in a bubble. Would you fill me in on this tuning question and why has it been done if it's causing problems ?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I'm curious why you mentioned Sutherland as having a larger voice than Nilsson. That is quite a statement! I had heard that above the staff her voice was equal to Nilsson's high C in volume.


Actually I just replied to the request to name singers I don't much like. I don't really care who had the bigger voice, as long as I don't have to hear any of them. Particularly late Sutherland singing baroque.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

moody said:


> I must be living in a bubble. Would you fill me in on this tuning question and why has it been done if it's causing problems ?


This New York Times article will do a better job than me.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm not a fan of the great big "hochdramatische" voices as a rule, either. Probably the largest voices I've heard in live performances were Eva Marton's Brünnhilde in the Chicago Lyric Opera's performances of _Siegfried_ and _Götterdämmerung_ back in the early '90s, Marisa Galvany's Turandot with the Cincinnati Opera back in the early '80s, and just this past summer, Antonello Palumbi's Radames, likewise in Cincinnati. Subtle the man is not, but his voice shook the rafters in that huge auditorium.


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

Of those I've heard live... if I was to pick one of each sex, then probably Maria Guleghina and Terje Stensvold. With Maria I was all the way in the back of the theatre and yet she pretty much blew my head off. With Terje I was sitting more up front and I swear I could virtually feel the skin peel off my face as he sang Wotan's Farewell. It was a little bit painful - but in a very exciting way. Then he ended the evening with "O du mein..." from Tannhäuser. Beautiful and lyrical - but f-ing huge.

I asked a former singer (now teacher) who made his debut with Mario Del Monaco in Houston in 1962 in "Otello" exactly what his voice was like live. He said, _"__I've tried to write it down but it's hard to describe a sound. Del Monaco's voice was like a big metal gong about as big as a house - but made of silver."_

Then he added his recollection of what it had sounded like at the Met: 
"_Mario Del Monaco's delivery of "Celeste Aida" received an ovation that I have not heard since those halcyon days of super-powered phrasing and crashing high notes. His high B-flat at the end of "Celeste Aida" evoked a response from the audience that could be best described as sheer hysteria. The enormous volume and blazing brilliance of that note reached down into the viscera of the receptive listener and caused every fiber of the body to quiver with wild, erotic pleasure."_


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> Of those I've heard live... if I was to pick one of each sex, then probably Maria Guleghina and Terje Stensvold. With Maria I was all the way in the back of the theatre and yet she pretty much blew my head off. "
> 
> I've often wondered about Guleghina. On the radio she sounds massive but one never knows. Like the massive voiced Marton her high C's are often flat sounding though. She is likely the reigning Turandot today.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> There are certainly other things that make a great singer besides the size of their voice, but it can really add to the excitement, especially in Verdi, Wagner and Strauss.
> I missed all the Golden Age singers in their prime. The biggest I've heard were Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, Alessandra Marc and Jane Eaglen. Janice Baird was our Bruinhilde once. On the whole her voice was not outstandingly large, but her high note in the Dawn Duet was jawdroppingly huge... especially from a pipsqueak of a woman.
> Tell me your experiences please. As you can see I am partial to female voices unlike some of you.
> John


I assume that you mean live. I saw Sutherland and Horne together when I was a lad in the 80s. They were alright for a couple of _old ducks._ 
Big voices since would probably include Eaglen and Podles. The latter was like a foghorn on legs when I saw her.


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I've often wondered about Guleghina. On the radio she sounds massive but one never knows. Like the massive voiced Marton her high C's are often flat sounding though. She is likely the reigning Turandot today.


Yeah, Guleghina has a voice that carries  It's also utterly stunning. Her Vissi d'Arte live... Christ. I also saw a recording of her in Turandot with Licitra and she was stone-faced pretty much all the way through, until he finally got to her at the end and her whole face changed as she was warming to him. Great voice _and _can act. Pretty much win-win for me. I didn't notice anything flat in either of those two - but I've heard others mention similar.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Honestly I often don't like big voices


That's because you're all _Kiri Crazy_ in New Zealand. :lol:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Leontyne Price, Birgit Nilsson and Joan Sutherland. Particularly the latter.
> 
> Now I'm going to get lynched.


Not by me.  Sutherland and Price are among my favorites (I haven't heard much Nilsson), but I want people to like someone because they genuinely like him/her and not because they feel they have to.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I've often wondered about Guleghina. On the radio she sounds massive but one never knows. Like the massive voiced Marton her high C's are often flat sounding though. She is likely the reigning Turandot today.


Rest assured, Ms. Guleghina's voice is simply huge.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> That doesn't suprise me about Ruth Ann. I think she is often overlooked and undervalued. Every time I hear her on historic broadcasts on Sirius she impresses me. She was also very lovely. She had a warmth to her voice that was not that of your typical lyric coloratura.


Oh, I think she was a superb singer, and it always hurt me when people made unkind comments about her. I remember reading a review of one of her CDs in some opera magazine that wasn't merely critical but downright nasty. The usual complaints were that her singing was beautiful but boring and that she was "too fat," or something. I remember so well when her 1999 or 2000 aria CD came out (I can't recall its title at the moment), sitting down and listening to the whole thing and being moved to tears several times -- and then reading a review in "Opera News" in which the critic called it "white noise." Maybe she wasn't the most viscerally exciting singer, but her voice was so lovely and warm, and she could create drama through tone color alone. This is what she does in, for instance, her recording of Lucia di Lammermoor's Act I aria and cabaletta, which is, all things considered, my favorite recording of that piece; same with her sleepwalking scene in _La Sonnambula_, and her "Caro nome" is one of my favorite recordings of that aria. Whatever its dramatic merits, her singing _as singing_ was always pure joy to listen to. Surely that's a valid contribution to the art form.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Operafocus said:


> Then he added his recollection of what it had sounded like at the Met:
> Mario Del Monaco's delivery of "Celeste Aida" received an ovation that I have not heard since those halcyon days of super-powered phrasing and crashing high notes. His high B-flat at the end of "Celeste Aida" evoked a response from the audience that could be best described as sheer hysteria. The enormous volume and blazing brilliance of that note reached down into the viscera of the receptive listener and caused every fiber of the body to quiver with wild, erotic pleasure."


My point about beauty, dynamic control and phrasing is exactly here. This B flat is supposed to be sung diminuendo, so in this case I'd be anything but a receptive listener - I'd just be wondering why he's yelling. Presumably just because he has a big voice and he can.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Couac Addict said:


> That's because you're all _Kiri Crazy_ in New Zealand. :lol:


I'm a Pom, so I don't feel I have to love all the Kiwis. But Kiri is lovely in the right repertoire.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> This New York Times article will do a better job than me.


Thanks for the info.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> [....] Then he added his recollection of what it had sounded like at the Met:
> "[/COLOR]_Mario Del Monaco's delivery of "Celeste Aida" received an ovation that I have not heard since those halcyon days of super-powered phrasing and crashing high notes. His high B-flat at the end of "Celeste Aida" evoked a response from the audience that could be best described as sheer hysteria. The enormous volume and blazing brilliance of that note reached down into the viscera of the receptive listener and *caused every fiber of the body to quiver with wild, erotic pleasure*."_


Back then they could've been arrested for that in a theatre. Now too (probably).


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> My point about beauty, dynamic control and phrasing is exactly here. This B flat is supposed to be sung diminuendo, so in this case I'd be anything but a receptive listener - I'd just be wondering why he's yelling. Presumably just because he has a big voice and he can.


No argument against MdM here - so many tenors skip the diminuendo that it's almost customary. The funny thing is that your favourite tenor is Domingo, a fellow that couldn't do any great dynamic nuance even when he sung the ending of _Celeste Aida_ with falsetto (Budapest performance from 80's). If you can stand that kind of thing, there is no reason to dislike loud ending by del Monaco - at least it's musical, well projected note (much more than most of contemporary tenors may give you here).

Also, I don't know if it's TC where I recall this quote from, but here is what the great singer himself had to say on the subject:

_However many people may disagree with me, let me tell you that the abuse of pianos and pianissimos end by becoming the cancer of a voice. Twice in my beginnings I almost lost my instrument by using this system of reducing and reducing the voice. It works for light voices, but not for large ones. A solid instrument must open the larynx a lot, or it loses the support. Listen to Caruso's recordings--he always sang full voice. To make the sound pliable, smooth and mellow is another matter and this is what I worked toward during my entire professional life. It is very much like a person who becomes hooked on remaining thin and eats very little. Eventually the stomach becomes smaller and to enlarge it again is impossible._

Regards,
the offical stand-for-MdM geezer


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> Then he added his recollection of what it had sounded like at the Met:
> "Mario Del Monaco's delivery of "Celeste Aida" received an ovation that I have not heard since those halcyon days of super-powered phrasing and crashing high notes. His high B-flat at the end of "Celeste Aida" evoked a response from the audience that could be best described as sheer hysteria. The enormous volume and blazing brilliance of that note reached down into the viscera of the receptive listener and caused every fiber of the body to quiver with wild, erotic pleasure."


I understand the need for that kind of thrill, but if sheer decibel is what _I_ was looking for I'd go to a rock concert. I've been to plenty where your whole body reverberates with (amplified) sound. As far as opera singers go I'd rather they not yell at me.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

deggial said:


> As far as opera singers go I'd rather they not yell at me.


Yell at you!
'Zounds, I will yell at deggial; and let my soul
Want mercy, if I do not join with del Monaco on this:
He said he would not listen to Mario;
Forbad singer's tongue to yell;
But I will find him when he lies asleep,
And in his ear I'll holla 'Vicino al sol!'
Nay, I'll have a starling shall be taught to yell
Nothing but 'Vicino al sol' in ff and give it to deggial
To keep his anger still in motion.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

The end of "Celeste Aida" is marked in the score as pp and morendo. For sure, a very different sound than the one produced by Mr. Del Monaco... and by many others, as well. This is a very good approach to how it should be sung, even though is in German (Holde Aida):






However, the tenor Giuseppe Capponi was unable to follow Verdi's score (he was hardly alone in that) and the composer wrote an oppure for him, avoiding the dificcult ending, with the voice ascending to the high b-flat as Ramses, madly in love, is supposed to raise a throne for Aida just there, next to the Sun. This oppure should be the choice when the original markings can't be sung, instead of going for a shouting competition, in my view.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Anyone wanting to hear Celeste Aida superbly should listen to Bergonzi on the a Decca Karajan. You don't. Need to Beasley the place down!

Also anyone doubting the size if Birgit's voice to listen to the end of 'I could have danced all night!' The end note would scatter prospectives partners for miles around.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Aramis said:


> Yell at you!
> 'Zounds, I will yell at deggial; and let my soul
> Want mercy, if I do not join with del Monaco on this:
> He said he would not listen to Mario;
> ...


Remember, Hotspur: "....food for...."[dies]... "for worms, noble Percy." (I tried to take it easy on the dot dots.)


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I assumed this thread would be about Gwyneth Jones but it looks like it falls to me to add her to the list. I'm interested to read the other names as they are among my favourites on record.

Gwyneth Jones singing Turandot at Royal Opera House was certainly memorable. (Alas my only encounter with her.) I was at the back of the amphitheatre and some tourists nearby expressed the opinion that 'they should turn her volume down'. She was awesome!

I'm guessing that only the big voices need apply for the major roles at Verona Arena. What a task that must be.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Alexander said:


> I assumed this thread would be about Gwyneth Jones but it looks like it falls to me to add her to the list. I'm interested to read the other names as the constitute some of my favourites on record.
> 
> Gwyneth Jones singing Turandot at Royal Opera House was certainly memorable. (Alas my only encounter with her.) I was at the back of the amphitheatre and some tourists nearby expressed the opinion that 'they should turn her volume down'. She was awesome!
> 
> I'm guessing that only the big voices need apply for the major roles at Verona Arena. What a task that must be.


 I heard Miss Jones at her peak in Bayreuth from backstage seats. I was too young to know what I was listening to and I have a feeling the voice expanded out in the house. If only I could go back and hear her again in 1975 with my ears today! I've been told she was like a wall of sound sitting in the back of a house.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Aramis said:


> The funny thing is that your favourite tenor is Domingo, a fellow that couldn't do any great dynamic nuance even when he sung the ending of _Celeste Aida_ with falsetto (Budapest performance from 80's).


Was. Now it's Kaufmann and he does the diminuendo.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

deggial said:


> I understand the need for that kind of thrill, but if sheer decibel is what _I_ was looking for I'd go to a rock concert. I've been to plenty where your whole body reverberates with (amplified) sound. As far as opera singers go I'd rather they not yell at me.


Bit difficult to sing Otello without "yelling."


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Alexander said:


> I assumed this thread would be about Gwyneth Jones but it looks like it falls to me to add her to the list. I'm interested to read the other names as the constitute some of my favourites on record.
> 
> Gwyneth Jones singing Turandot at Royal Opera House was certainly memorable. (Alas my only encounter with her.) I was at the back of the amphitheatre and some tourists nearby expressed the opinion that 'they should turn her volume down'. She was awesome!
> 
> I'm guessing that only the big voices need apply for the major roles at Verona Arena. What a task that must be.


Eva Turner was the greatest Turandot and apparently her voice could be heard outside Covent Garden in the street.


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

moody said:


> Eva Turner was the greatest Turandot and apparently her voice could be heard outside Covent Garden in the street.


Zinka Milanov is said to have had a voice like that. You know, the kind where you´d sit in on the 2nd balcony if you had a toupée.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I wish someone would report on Nilsson. She was heard through the six foot brick walls of the Old Met and people a block away from Verona during Turandot thought they were hearing a siren;-)


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Operafocus said:


> Zinka Milanov is said to have had a voice like that. You know, the kind where you´d sit in on the 2nd balcony if you had a toupée.


She's my great favourite and I think I have most of what is available of hers.
But I don't think she was a Turandot.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Aramis said:


> Yell at you!
> 'Zounds, I will yell at deggial; and let my soul
> Want mercy, if I do not join with del Monaco on this:
> He said he would not listen to Mario;
> ...


ohime! stelle sciagurate... :lol:


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish someone would report on Nilsson. She was heard through the six foot brick walls of the Old Met and people a block away from Verona during Turandot thought they were hearing a siren;-)


It reminds me of when Eric Halfvarson told the story of how he went to a recital with her and then worked up the courage to talk to her afterwards. It was a semi-disaster, as he said something in Swedish he'd just been told to say (causing a minuscule outrage from her), and once he'd explained this she - and I quote - _"laughed - into my ear - so strongly that I wasn't sure if I was ever going to hear again." _Now, if her laugh alone had that effect...


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

moody said:


> She's my great favourite and I think I have most of what is available of hers.
> But I don't think she was a Turandot.


*A quote from someone who heard Zinka a lot: *
_Zinka's voice had colossal power, endless projection, the best soft notes in history, and beauty of tone like nobody ever in modern times. To have heard her live many times was an almost religious experience. Every time she sang, the great singers of all types who happened to be in New York attended every performance she sang. Jerome Hines said that after over 50 years of hearing and singing with the greatest sopranos in the world, no one ever came close to Zinka._


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> Was. Now it's Kaufmann and he does the diminuendo.


Sure he does. Though I must say that after listening to Kaufmann more than a little bit, I got somewhat tired of his pianos - he has a certain way of his own to do this kind of thing, one could invent new operatic term "Kaufmann piano". In larger portions it can be tiresome.

Anyway, if it will help you to appreciate MdM at least a little bit more, here he is in Otello duet, performing splendid diminuendo on "immenso" (phrase beings at 1:22), all done live:


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> Zinka's voice had colossal power, endless projection, the best soft notes in history, and beauty of tone like nobody ever in modern times. To have heard her live many times was an almost religious experience.


blimey, sounds like Jesus done resurrected as an opera singer!


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> Zinka Milanov is said to have had a voice like that. You know, the kind where you´d sit in on the 2nd balcony if you had a toupée.


Somewhere there's a seismograph jumping like crazy


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

The Welsh soprano Rita Hunter had a huge voice and a body size to match. She sang Aida here in Adelaide in the '90's, but couldn't quite make the role of a nubile Nubian slave girl seem believable. Every time she had an aria to sing, there was an appropriately placed stool for her to sit on. But it was a wonderful voice nevertheless.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

alan davis said:


> The Welsh soprano Rita Hunter had a huge voice and a body size to match. She sang Aida here in Adelaide in the '90's, but couldn't quite make the role of a nubile Nubian slave girl seem believable. Every time she had an aria to sing, there was an appropriately placed stool for her to sit on. But it was a wonderful voice nevertheless.


She was on an Euryanthe recording with J. Norman early in both of their careers and her voice was beautiful. She was supposed to be a great Norma as well. i heard from people that heard her that her voice was not so much enormous as it was so beautifully placed and carried well in the house. She was featured as Bruinhilde in a Ring in English that I heard and it was one of the finest Bruinhildes I ever heard with some of the most beautiful high notes. Singing a lot of Wagner caused her voice to develop more of a wobble which was lacking in the two recordings I mentioned. I also saw a Suicidio which has since been removed from Youtube by her that showed off one of the most impressive blending of a powerful chest register to dramatic soprano I've ever heard. It was amazing!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

alan davis said:


> The Welsh soprano Rita Hunter had a huge voice and a body size to match. She sang Aida here in Adelaide in the '90's, but couldn't quite make the role of a nubile Nubian slave girl seem believable. Every time she had an aria to sing, there was an appropriately placed stool for her to sit on. But it was a wonderful voice nevertheless.


She was on television here doing Aida with Pavarotti,they had to stand side by side and not opposite each other and could not get their arms around the other's waist. It was faintly ludicrous and better if you closed the eyes.
One point she was from Liverpool,not Wales.


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## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

Jussi Björlin. He was able to go from his relaxed voice to the strong big voice....he was just able to convey emotions with his voice like no other IMO....Pavarotti agreed with this sentiment btw...


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

ericdxx said:


> Jussi Björlin. He was able to go from his relaxed voice to the strong big voice....he was just able to convey emotions with his voice like no other IMO....Pavarotti agreed with this sentiment btw...


Hmm, I've heard people say Björling's voice was "more beautiful than it was big". Opinions vary I guess


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## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> Hmm, I've heard people say Björling's voice was "more beautiful than it was big". Opinions vary I guess


So you're he wasn't "big" at the end of Puccini arias?

I'm saying it was emotional and "big" in a way that I have not heard in any other opera tenor


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

ericdxx said:


> So you're he wasn't "big" at the end of Puccini arias?
> 
> I'm saying it was emotional and "big" in a way that I have not heard in any other opera tenor


I think this thread has been about "loudness" of voice up till now.

I can't argue with the point you're making on the emotional part.


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## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

Operafocus said:


> I think this thread has been about "loudness" of voice up till now.
> 
> I can't argue with the point you're making on the emotional part.


Is Björling "big" at the end of Recondita Armonia, yes or no?


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

My parents attended a Bjorling concert in 1950. They told me years ago that his voice projected very well and he would "turret" to make sure everyone in the audience got the stream of a long high note. He was no tenore di forza by any means, but a very audible lirico spinto. My parents were seated close to the stage, however, from a balcony. My mother unforgettably described his shape in that perspective as resembling "an absolute egg." I read later that was not fat, or all fat, but rather a tough, sturdy blocky constitution, as he was an exceptionally strong physically. The late Will Graham, a friend of mine who lived into his 90s and was an assiduous vinyl collector and Met habitue, told me that JB was not Gigli-strong, but he could be heard very well indeed, to unforgettable effect. 

Then again, I once read an interview with Robert Merrill about his famous duet recordings with JB in which he said that his (Merrill's) voice was stronger than JB's so he had to be recessed behind JB for the audio to balance. I've no reason to disbelieve this.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bjorling had a very intensely resonant voice which can make up for umph with ping. He was of a similar build to early Nilsson with a lean but stock frame, no neck and an overly large head... perfect for singing


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Bjorling had a very intensely resonant voice which can make up for umph with ping. He was of a similar build to early Nilsson with a lean but stock frame, no neck and an overly large head... perfect for singing


But too northern for Italian opera as far as I'm concerned. But I like him.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

ericdxx said:


> Is Björling "big" at the end of Recondita Armonia, yes or no?


Recordings are no indication of how big a singer's voice is. Microphones can lie; with popera stars for example.

Bjorling had a beautiful lyric voice, but unless you have heard him live you can't really comment on its size.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

moody said:


> Verdi's original "Otello" was Francesco Tamagno . He made some recordings after retirement in 1903/4 and his voice is monstrous although somewhat faulty by that stage


Tamagno has no faults. Tamagno is God. Although on his recordings he does take some high notes a little gingerly: he is thought to have had a heart attack a few years previously and so was presumably keen not to give himself another one. But I think it was his general health rather than the health of his voice which forced his early semi retirement: he made concert appearances right up to the end. Ugo Piovano lists them in his biography, Otello Fu. It's a great book, apart from the inconvenient fact that it's written in Italian!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The biggest voice I ever heard live was Gwyneth Jones, though it could be an unwieldy instrument. Agnes Baltsa's voice was a lot bigger than you might imagine too.

To be honest, though, I haven't heard that many huge voices, possibly because the operas I like most don't really require massive voices; well projected voices, voices that can be heard perfectly when singing _pianissimo_ (Baker was certainly one of those), but not necessarily massive. And big is not always beautiful.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> The biggest voice I ever heard live was Gwyneth Jones, though it could be an unwieldy instrument. Agnes Baltsa's voice was a lot bigger than you might imagine too.
> 
> To be honest, though, I haven't heard that many huge voices, possibly because the operas I like most don't really require massive voices; well projected voices, voices that can be heard perfectly when singing _pianissimo_ (Baker was certainly one of those), but not necessarily massive. And big is not always beautiful.


Dame Janet has a voice that can be gorgeous _or_ ferocious: the floated pianissimos are piercingly-sublime and her chest notes can put you through the wall--- all in the same dramatic legato line. Absolutely thrilling stuff.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> The biggest voice I ever heard live was Gwyneth Jones, though it could be an unwieldy instrument. Agnes Baltsa's voice was a lot bigger than you might imagine too.
> 
> To be honest, though, I haven't heard that many huge voices, possibly because the operas I like most don't really require massive voices; well projected voices, voices that can be heard perfectly when singing _pianissimo_ (Baker was certainly one of those), but not necessarily massive. And big is not always beautiful.


Some sopranos and tenors famous for their big voices are:
Nilsson
Corelli
Tebaldi
Vickers
Caruso
Camarena
Radvanovsky
McCracken


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The problem is Jussi Björling has been dead for over 50 years and there are few that can have heard him live those that were 30 and heard him in the fifties are now over 80 years old so there are few that can have heard him live. An other thing is that memories can be false especially of events over 50 years ago. The best way to find out how big Björlings voice was is to read reviews and descriptions from when he was performing and also recordings if you know the circumstances behind the recordings.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Some sopranos and tenors famous for their big voices are:
> Nilsson
> Corelli
> Tebaldi
> ...


I thought we were talking about voices we had actually heard in the flesh. Have you heard all of the above?

And actually Tebaldi was a lirico spinto. She didn't have that large a voice, or so I'm told. In fact Callas's was a lot bigger. Tebaldi herself talks about how unusual it was that such a large voice had such fliexbilty.

There are certainly voices from the past whom I didn't hear, that contemporary reports would suggest had large voices.
Nilsson, Flagstad, Ponselle, Vickers, Del Monaco et al, but I can't attest to the actual size because I have only heard them on record.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I heard Nilsson as Isolde and the _Gotterdammerung_ Brunnhilde at the Met in the early '70s and can attest to the truth of her reputation. But what got me more than the sheer size was the sense of power in reserve and the way the voice seemed to warm up and become freer and more beautiful as the evening wore on. The Liebestod and the Immolation Scene gave us her best singing of the night! I'm not always her biggest fan, but the woman was a magnificent freak of nature.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> The biggest voice I ever heard live was Gwyneth Jones, though it could be an unwieldy instrument. Agnes Baltsa's voice was a lot bigger than you might imagine too.
> 
> To be honest, though, I haven't heard that many huge voices, possibly because the operas I like most don't really require massive voices; well projected voices, voices that can be heard perfectly when singing _pianissimo_ (Baker was certainly one of those), but not necessarily massive. And big is not always beautiful.


Yesyesyes....................................


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I heard Nilsson as Isolde and the _Gotterdammerung_ Brunnhilde at the Met in the early '70s and can attest to the truth of her reputation. But what got me more than the sheer size was the sense of power in reserve and the way the voice seemed to warm up and become freer and more beautiful as the evening wore on. The Liebestod and the Immolation Scene gave us her best singing of the night! I'm not always her biggest fan, but the woman was a magnificent freak of nature.


The end of the Bohm Tristan is incredible. Assuming this was a live performance the way the voice soars over the orchestra is amazing. For sheer vocal heft there were few to match her.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The singer I most _wish_ I had heard live (aside from Callas, where of course it was as much a matter of seeing something remarkable as of hearing it) was Kirsten Flagstad. Reports of the size of her voice were probably not exaggerated, and many of her recordings give a sense of it. But the remarkable thing to me is that there was with the sheer volume an unfailing ease and beauty of tone; she never forced her voice, even with the full force of the orchestra pitted against it. I'm sure this accounts for her vocal longevity, and even in her sixties, with a few top notes gone or difficult, the voice remained through most of its range warm, rounded, and beautiful, without a trace of a wobble. Apparently her voice was not nearly so large at first, but grew naturally over time as she sang roles appropriate to it at every stage. Her advice to young singers? "Leave Wagner alone." We hear so many singers whose artistic or financial ambitions (or is it the ambitions of their promoters?) exceed their natural abilities, taking on roles they should never touch. Flagstad is a beautiful rebuke to them.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

schigolch said:


> Well, I usually don't go the theater carrying a sound meter, so I don't have hard facts, or statistics in decibels.
> 
> However, I would say that maybe the biggest voice I have ever heard is that of Matti Salminen.


I heard him in Parsifal.

our strongest voice is Attila Fekete, last time he sang the role of the italian singer in Der Rosenkavalier.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Her advice to young singers? "Leave Wagner alone."


I believe the full quote was: "Leave Wagner alone . . . he's mine!"


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Hi Greg:
Where did it say "heard live"? I only noticed the word "heard." Maybe I missed something but of course I am talking about hearing on CD's and DVD's. Along with certain opera friends on another forum who have heard many of the above and concur.
Their reputations seem legend by this time to me and yes, thanks for adding del Monaco (how could I forget?), Flagstad and Ponselle -- all deserving to be on the list.
As for ones I have seen live only Corelli, Nilsson, Camarena and Radvanovsky fit the bill.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

amfortas said:


> I believe the full quote was: "Leave Wagner alone . . . he's mine!"


I'm sure Wagner would have been flattered (as well as ecstatic to have such a voice at his disposal)!

Actually I was quoting a little talk she gave to young singers. You can find it somewhere on YouTube.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> I'm sure Wagner would have been flattered (as well as ecstatic to have such a voice at his disposal)!
> 
> Actually I was quoting a little talk she gave to young singers. You can find it somewhere on YouTube.


And I'm sure, given all that's been written about Flagstad's kind, generous nature, I've done her a great injustice.

But I just can't help myself.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Kirsten Flagstad and Lauriz Melchior. A tie.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

amfortas said:


> And I'm sure, given all that's been written about Flagstad's kind, generous nature, I've done her a great injustice.
> 
> But I just can't help myself.


She forgives you. 

But wouldn't it be wonderful to have a _hochdramatische sopran_ of such calibre around now to claim Wagner as her own? I wonder if I'll still be around when one appears...

Nothing happening last I checked.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> She forgives you.
> 
> But wouldn't it be wonderful to have a _hochdramatische sopran_ of such calibre around now to claim Wagner as her own? I wonder if I'll still be around when one appears...
> 
> Nothing happening last I checked.











_Immense_ stentorian declamation.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> View attachment 44726
> 
> 
> _Immense_ stentorian declamation.


Is that your vocal range? Have you been holding out on us?


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Is that your vocal range? Have you been holding out on us?


My stentorian declamation became lip-sync affectation long ago when singing along to Donna Summer albums as a kid.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> My stentorian declamation became lip-sync affectation long ago when singing along to Donna Summer albums as a kid.


Well, my heavens! Brunnhilde karyokojotoho in drag might well be next!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Kirsten Flagstad and Lauriz Melchior. A tie.


They're 'A'-team Wagner. I got a Grammofono 2000 cd of them together doing Wagner duets about a month ago. Lovely voices. Quicksilver lightning of the gods.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Hi Greg:
> Where did it say "heard live"? I only noticed the word "heard." Maybe I missed something but of course I am talking about hearing on CD's and DVD's. Along with certain opera friends on another forum who have heard many of the above and concur.
> Their reputations seem legend by this time to me and yes, thanks for adding del Monaco (how could I forget?), Flagstad and Ponselle -- all deserving to be on the list.
> As for ones I have seen live only Corelli, Nilsson, Camarena and Radvanovsky fit the bill.


I assumed live because really it's impossible to tell the true size of a voice from recordings.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> They're 'A'-team Wagner. I got a Grammofono 2000 cd of them together doing Wagner duets about a month ago. Lovely voices. Quicksilver lightning of the gods.
> 
> View attachment 44746


Get a chance to listen to Melchior in the Bruno Walter/VPO Walküre Act One Wälse......Wälse!!! Staggering exhibition!!!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Originally Posted by Marschallin Blair
> 
> My stentorian declamation became lip-sync affectation long ago when singing along to Donna Summer albums as a kid.
> 
> Woodduck: Well, my heavens! Brunnhilde karyokojotoho in drag might well be next!

















A day without drag is like a day without Valhallan sunshine. Ru's got me on the disco, but I've got her on the _Walkürenritt_.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Get a chance to listen to Melchior in the Bruno Walter/VPO Walküre Act One Wälse......Wälse!!! Staggering exhibition!!!


No-- I haven't. But 'yes,' I've seen that Grammofono 2000 incarnation of it out there. Now I'll have to get it.

'Staggering exhibition' is the kind of Madison Avenue shibboleth I'm looking for.

Green light go!

-- Thanks.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> No-- I haven't. But 'yes,' I've seen that Grammofono 2000 incarnation of it out there. Now I'll have to get it.
> 
> 'Staggering exhibition' is the kind of Madison Avenue shibboleth I'm looking for.
> 
> ...





hpowders said:


> Get a chance to listen to Melchior in the Bruno Walter/VPO Walküre Act One Wälse......Wälse!!! Staggering exhibition!!!


And don't forget to mention that his Sieglinde is Lotte Lehmann. You can't do better than that.

There were nights at the Met in the '30s when the cast of Wakure consisted of Lehmann, Melchior, Flagstad, Friedrich Schorr, and Emmanuel List, all in their primes. Hard to imagine that much sheer vocal splendor in Wagner now.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> No-- I haven't. But 'yes,' I've seen that Grammofono 2000 incarnation of it out there. Now I'll have to get it.
> 
> 'Staggering exhibition' is the kind of Madison Avenue shibboleth I'm looking for.
> 
> ...


My advertising hyperbole worked?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> And don't forget to mention that his Sieglinde is Lotte Lehmann. You can't do better than that.


Yes. Even the Hunding, Emanuel List, is unusually malevolent. Reminds me of my homeroom teacher back in reform school.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> hpowers: My advertising hyperbole worked?


In spades: like the Pavlovian response a beta-programmed CIA sex kitten would have to the appropriate trigger.

It was quite simply beyond my control.

. . . and the fact that it has a Valhallan cast.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

That perfect storm of List, Lehmann, Melchior, Walter and the VPO! Hard to believe the tension surrounding the performance, just a few years before the Nazis marched into Vienna. I get goosebumps just listening to it, imagining the nightmare that was engulfing Europe.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> That perfect storm of List, Lehmann, Melchior, Walter and the VPO! Hard to believe the tension surrounding the performance as the Nazis were about to march into Vienna and the immediate peril Bruno Walter was in. I get goosebumps just listening to it, imagining the nightmare that was engulfing Europe.


I'm thrilled. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this performance.

I have a war-time Furtwangler/BPO Beethoven's Ninth that is unbelievably intense; a Furtwangler war-time _Liebestod _that is incandescent as well; and of course that war-time Furtwangler Schubert's Ninth that just blitzkriegs anything before or since.

-- so yeah, I know that argot you're speaking, Mister.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I'm thrilled. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this performance.
> 
> I have a war-time Furtwangler/BPO Beethoven's Ninth that is unbelievably intense; a Furtwangler war-time _Liebestod _that is incandescent as well; and of course that war-time Furtwangler Schubert's Ninth that just blitzkriegs anything before or since.
> 
> -- so yeah, I know that argot you're speaking, Mister.


I have it as a "Great Performance of the Century" CD. For once, this was no hype.

Can you imagine the pressure Furtwängler was under at those live performances during the war with the Nazi top brass sitting in the front rows?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Get a chance to listen to Melchior in the Bruno Walter/VPO Walküre Act One Wälse......Wälse!!! Staggering exhibition!!!


It is incredible. But also listen to Vickers! And he's better recorded!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I have it as a "Great Performance of the Century" CD. For once, this was no hype.
> 
> Can you imagine the pressure Furtwängler was under at those live performances during the war with the Nazi top brass sitting in the front rows?


But remember people like Bonhoeffer and the German resistance were under much more pressure!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I have it as a "Great Performance of the Century" CD. For once, this was no hype.
> 
> Can you imagine the pressure Furtwängler was under at those live performances during the war with the Nazi top brass sitting in the front rows?


No, I can't.

But then sometimes fighting-for-your-very-life stress brings on tremendous art. Witness the last movement of Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> But remember people like Bonhoeffer and the German resistance were under much more pressure!


Absolutely.

And libertarians like Austrian economists Friedrich von Hayek and Ludwig von Mises even more so.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If you want to hear the Melchior, Lehmann, Walter, VPO Act One Die Walkure in all its glory, I recommend the miraculous transfer from 78's to CD on Arkadia. The sound is incredible, considering it's from 1935.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> It is incredible. But also listen to Vickers! And he's better recorded!


Listen to Melchior on the Arkadia transfer. You won't believe it's from 1935! I'm listening to it right now!


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## Lt.Belle (Jan 19, 2014)

Favorite opera of mine is Armida. You need a big voice to sing that part. Cristina Deutekom had a big voice and sung it beautifully among many others. The final in act 2 just gives me the chills. On openingnight in Venezia 1970, Deutekom hits the high note on the end too early and is forced too hold it for 9 seconds! I discoverd this on youtube: 




you all should check it out. A fine example on how big voices can be...


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

KIRSTEN FLAGSTAD


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

TxllxT said:


> KIRSTEN FLAGSTAD


See I simply can't stand this. It's like using a sledge hammer to cut a chocolate gateau - to my ears.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> See I simply can't stand this. It's like using a sledge hammer to cut a chocolate gateau - to my ears.


Well, the question is about the biggest voice and one ought to hear this not with computer speakers but with 'big' high quality speakers turned on high volume. In my mind the voice of Kirsten Flagstad just becomes one with all those deep droning brass tones. But I agree, there exist better interpretations of Gluck's Alceste. :tiphat:
Big is not synonymous with good.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

mamascarlatti said:


> See I simply can't stand this. It's like using a sledge hammer to cut a chocolate gateau - to my ears.











That's a crushing metaphor, and I absolutely love it;_ and _Flagstad-- but you're right. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. . .

"What the hell happened to my brown sugar and pecan cake layers surrounded by coffee mousse, dark chocolate Bailey's Irish Cream mousse, and chocolate ganache?!! Some heads are gonna roll on this one."


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

mamascarlatti said:


> See I simply can't stand this. It's like using a sledge hammer to cut a chocolate gateau - to my ears.


This rather weightily conducted and sung performance was recorded in the late 1950s, when Flagstad was over 60. I think you'll have to concede the magnificence of the voice, still absolutely firm and clear, if now more of a mezzo than a soprano. I completely agree with you about the heaviness of the style, which is very much the way that era thought of Gluck: more like monumental statuary than fiery drama. We no longer recruit our classical heroines from Valhalla. But re the OP: what a glorious noise the lady makes!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> This rather weightily conducted and sung performance was recorded in the late 1950s, when Flagstad was over 60. I think you'll have to concede the magnificence of the voice, still absolutely firm and clear, if now more of a mezzo than a soprano. I completely agree with you about the heaviness of the style, which is very much the way that era thought of Gluck: more like monumental statuary than fiery drama. We no longer recruit our classical heroines from Valhalla. But re the OP: what a glorious noise the lady makes!


Well I agree with both of you. Is that possible? Yes, even in her 60s, there is no question of the magnificence of the voice itself, but like Mamascarlatti I find this Gluck almost unlistenable, particularly with memories of Callas and Janet Baker in my mind's ear.


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## BevSills (Jul 23, 2014)

I saw Birgit Nilsson in recital in Pasadena in the late 70's. As an encore she sang "I Could Have Danced All Night". Her final high note tore the roof off the building.


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## JohnGerald (Jul 6, 2014)

Nilsson; goldfish bowls exploded five blocks away.

Corelli; when he did the diminuendo at the end of Celesta Aida, mia sposa was looking for a way to vault from the balcony onto the stage. Franco was very lucky that night.

More recently, Jamie Barton doing O mon Fernand, a link to which I posted in the cabaletta thread. Goldfish bowls at four blocks away ...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

JohnGerald said:


> Nilsson; goldfish bowls exploded five blocks away.
> 
> Corelli; when he did the diminuendo at the end of Celesta Aida, mia sposa was looking for a way to vault from the balcony onto the stage. Franco was very lucky that night.
> 
> More recently, Jamie Barton doing O mon Fernand, a link to which I posted in the cabaletta thread. Goldfish bowls at four blocks away ...


 It is nice to hear that Jamie Barton's voice is as big as it sounds. She is most marvelous!!!!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I love this thread...I'm surprised there aren't more large low voiced men being mentioned. One would think that huge men would produce HUGE sound


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marilyn Horne.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richards said:


> I love this thread...I'm surprised there aren't more large low voiced men being mentioned. One would think that huge men would produce HUGE sound


Try Mario Del Monaco


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Hard to compare but Tamara Wilson is the biggest of recent hearings.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sondra Radvanovsky is certainly a contender.
People who are onstage with her claim that if they are standing anywhere near her their eardrums hurt.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

live? I don't have a lot of experience therein, but I do remember attending a performance of The Mikado in Kansas City and the singers were kinda wimpy....but then Denyce Graves showed up and kicked everyone's arses


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> live? I don't have a lot of experience therein, but I do remember attending a performance of The Mikado in Kansas City and the singers were kinda wimpy....but then Denyce Graves showed up and kicked everyone's arses


That must have been fun!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

No question - Nilsson


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

GregMitchell said:


> The biggest voice I ever heard live was Gwyneth Jones, though it could be an unwieldy instrument. Agnes Baltsa's voice was a lot bigger than you might imagine too.
> 
> To be honest, though, I haven't heard that many huge voices, possibly because the operas I like most don't really require massive voices; well projected voices, voices that can be heard perfectly when singing _pianissimo_ (Baker was certainly one of those), but not necessarily massive. And big is not always beautiful.


I'm very fascinated with this topic & found this excerpt digging on Google a while back concerning the size of Jones' voice:

My very first opera at the MET was ELEKTRA with Birgit Nilsson and Leonie Rysanek in the 1979-1980 season. Enough to shake ANYONE in their boots!  I also heard Nilsson's alternate in that run of ELEKTRA named Brenda Roberts (who also had a huge voice but kind of disappeared into obscurity, albeit that I hear she still occasionally sings). I then heard Nilsson and Rysanek in all of their subsequent operas at the MET and in New York until their retirement (Nilsson) and passing (Rysanek: my G-d, I will never forget the enormity of her sound in the close of Act II of JENUFA or in Act II of PARSIFAL). Then there was Dame Gwyneth Jones, who truly broke the mold when it came to gargantuan sound. Where this elegant, slim woman found that colossal organ of a voice I will never know. Her ELEKTRA almost surpassed Nilsson for me... almost... I'd call them neck-and-neck. I felt as though she blew away the entire back wall of the MET when she cried "Orest!" Deborah Voigt, who sounded quite large---not to mention beautiful!---as Chrysothemis to Hildegard Behrens' earnest, admirable, yet of course, small-voiced Elektra, dominating both her and Levine's huge, surging orchestra, sounded like a light lyric soprano when pitted against Jones's all-powerful sound. It was kind of like: "Okay, here's a big voice (Voigt)... here's that big voice with some really interesting vocal problems, yet with complete command of that crazy sound as Elektra, who swallowed an erupting volcano and is pouring lava all over anything that other singers or orchestra can throw at her (Jones)!" Lol!


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Large Voices: Birgit Nilsson and Giangiacomo Guelfi*

Birgit Nilsson who I heard live in Woolsey Hall, New Haven, CT, 1968. She deafened me and my friend for half an hour with her high C at the end of "Ozean, du Ungeheuer" from Weber's Oberon. Here she is in that, courtesy of YouTube:






The largest male voice I ever heard was the Verdi baritone Giangiacomo Guelfi, whom I heard at the Dallas Opera in maybe 1974 or so. He just had an incredible focus and "point" to his voice. Here he is singing an aria and cabaletta from Luisa Miller:






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## Bargee (Aug 30, 2014)

Dame Clara's voice was past it's best in the recordings that are around. The Enchantress is a great piece, written for her, and shows off her big voice. Find me a contralto that can sing the top notes as well as the lowest. Modern, quality, contralto voices are very rare but to listen to are the best by far. i'm very fortunate, my wife is a coloratura contralto and sings The Enchantress too.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Dame Clara Butt Sings The Enchantress*



Bargee said:


> Dame Clara's voice was past it's best in the recordings that are around. The Enchantress is a great piece, written for her, and shows off her big voice. Find me a contralto that can sing the top notes as well as the lowest. Modern, quality, contralto voices are very rare but to listen to are the best by far. i'm very fortunate, my wife is a coloratura contralto and sings The Enchantress too.


Sorry Bargee but after hearing this I couldn't help but post it anyway! I assume the fact that Dame Clara has her, ahem, _rather prominent derriere backed up to the audience in the photo_ is not intended as a wonderful visual pun. If it is, I like her even more than merely for her incredible voice -- because she has a great sense of humor too!






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The biggest sound I ever heard a human make was Jamie Barton performing in a 300 seat theater. I have no idea what she sounds like at the Met, but in this context it was absolutely overwhelming. And gorgeous to boot. She is perfectly built to produce a huge sound. She is not gobby fat, but built like a tank with no neck and a barrell chest. She has a very pretty face. A real baby face.


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## Morton (Nov 13, 2016)

Nilsson, who I saw near the end of her career sing a commanding performance of Elektra at ROH Covent Garden, & John Vickers as Tristan who I also saw at the ROH, back in May 1980.
I would also mention Kurt Moll who I saw a couple of times as Gurnemanz at Covent Garden, a big man with a voice to match.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Those of you that have heard Goerke live, where does her voice rank in size when compared to Hochdramatisch sopranos who came before?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Those of you that have heard Goerke live, where does her voice rank in size when compared to Hochdramatisch sopranos who came before?


That could be hard to judge, since Nilsson retired nearly forty years ago and arguably there hasn't been a real _hochdramatische sopran_ since. Varnay had a huge voice, but who here would have heard her live? Flagstad and Traubel we know only from recordings.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> That could be hard to judge, since Nilsson retired nearly forty years ago and arguably there hasn't been a real _hochdramatische sopran_ since. Varnay had a huge voice, but who here would have heard her live? Flagstad and Traubel we know only from recordings.


Good point Woodduck. Maybe as compared to the more recent contenders like Jones, Marton, Eaglen, Stemme etc then? Jones & Marton certainly had power to rival Nilsson.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Good point Woodduck. Maybe as compared to the more recent contenders like Jones, Marton, Eaglen, Stemme etc then? Jones & Marton certainly had power to rival Nilsson.


Yes, some say that Jones had as big a voice as any of them. Eaglen sounds plenty loud on recordings. It's obvious even on recordings that Flagstad at full intensity could be awesome; listen to her "Isolde's narrative and curse" from 1948 (start at around 9:19):






It's worth noting that Flagstad here was 50 years old, and there's no trace of a Jones/Marton/Varnay wobble. Power was never achieved by forcing her voice, and so the voice served her well to the end.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Yes, some say that Jones had as big a voice as any of them. Eaglen sounds plenty loud on recordings. It's obvious even on recordings that Flagstad at full intensity could be awesome; listen to her "Isolde's narrative and curse" from 1948 (start at around 9:19):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a voice! Flagstad is in a league of her own...Jones certainly had a lot of variables in her singing. The scooping, the wobble etc. I was told that part of what lead to those issues was a refusal to take criticism once she was established...she sure was gifted though.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Those of you who have heard Radvanovsky live, is her's regarded as the biggest voice in opera today? Could her voice be suited for Wagner?


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> Those of you who have heard Radvanovsky live, is her's regarded as the biggest voice in opera today? Could her voice be suited for Wagner?


It's not the biggest voice I've heard. (Although I'm not sure who would be.)

N.


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Opera s do expensive that one tends to hear it on recordings or live broadcasts. It is therefore extremely difficult to tell just how big a voice is through the medium of recorded sound. Must confess Nilsson sounds huge! So does Vickers.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Luciano Pavarotti singing Cavaradosi in the Met, back in the 90ties


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Star said:


> Opera s do expensive that one tends to hear it on recordings or live broadcasts. It is therefore extremely difficult to tell just how big a voice is through the medium of recorded sound. Must confess Nilsson sounds huge! So does Vickers.


I'd say it's pretty darn impossible. We have to go off word of mouth from the lucky folks that hear the sangers live! & if they're so freakishly old that they heard prime Melchior in the house & are at the same time skilled enough with technology to post here, even better!!


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> There are certainly other things that make a great singer besides the size of their voice, but it can really add to the excitement, especially in Verdi, Wagner and Strauss.
> I missed all the Golden Age singers in their prime. The biggest I've heard were Stephanie Blythe, Ewa Podles, Alessandra Marc and Jane Eaglen. Janice Baird was our Bruinhilde once. On the whole her voice was not outstandingly large, but her high note in the Dawn Duet was jawdroppingly huge... especially from a pipsqueak of a woman.
> Tell me your experiences please. As you can see I am partial to female voices unlike some of you.
> John


Please, could you describe how is the experience to hear these singers live. Especially between the voices of the same type like Blythe x Podles and Marc x Eaglen? In my personal experiences with operas live, the biggest voices that I heard were Sondra Radvanovsky - soprano, Anna Smirnova - mezzo soprano and Gregory Reinhart - Bass. The three had very big voices and Gregory was the best experience to me. I am from Rio de janeiro and know a lot people that is seeing opera there for the last 50 years. For those singers that sang there in that time, they are unanimous in saying that the biggest female voice heard there was Ghena Dimitrova (Nilson, Gwyneth Jones, Eaglen and Marc never sang there but Marton did). The male voices were two. Jon Vickers (it is said that was bigger than Del Monaco) and Giangiacomo Guelfi (the biggest baritone voice including Cornell Macneil) and the second was Gianpiero Mastromei


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

I don`t think so. The voice is huge enough but it is Italianate sound. Not well suited for German repertoire.


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> Those of you who have heard Radvanovsky live, is her's regarded as the biggest voice in opera today? Could her voice be suited for Wagner?


I don`t think so. The voice is huge enough but it is Italianate sound. Not well suited for German repertoire.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Fernando Baritone said:


> I don`t think so. The voice is huge enough but it is Italianate sound. Not well suited for German repertoire.


Who are you talking about?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Fernando Baritone said:


> Please, could you describe how is the experience to hear these singers live. Especially between the voices of the same type like Blythe x Podles and Marc x Eaglen? In my personal experiences with operas live, the biggest voices that I heard were Sondra Radvanovsky - soprano, Anna Smirnova - mezzo soprano and Gregory Reinhart - Bass. The three had very big voices and Gregory was the best experience to me. I am from Rio de janeiro and know a lot people that is seeing opera there for the last 50 years. For those singers that sang there in that time, they are unanimous in saying that the biggest female voice heard there was Ghena Dimitrova (Nilson, Gwyneth Jones, Eaglen and Marc never sang there but Marton did). The male voices were two. Jon Vickers (it is said that was bigger than Del Monaco) and Giangiacomo Guelfi (the biggest baritone voice including Cornell Macneil) and the second was Gianpiero Mastromei


Blythe and Podles were similar in size. Eaglen's was bigger in the middle and upper middle registers while Marc's expanded most thrillingly at the top.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> That could be hard to judge, since Nilsson retired nearly forty years ago and arguably there hasn't been a real _hochdramatische sopran_ since. Varnay had a huge voice, but who here would have heard her live? Flagstad and Traubel we know only from recordings.


A great anecdote about Traubel was a person said their teacher heard her live in Chicago and the voice was so enormous it hit the teacher in the chest, bounced off the back wall and hit them on the back of the head in rebound!!!!!!!! Flagstad had the biggest soprano of all time and she and Ponselle had a contest at the empty old Met. Flagstad won, by a smidgin


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I have to admit I'm a bit at a loss with this preoccupation with large voices. Yes, it can be thrilling to hear a huge voice, belting out high notes, and I'd be second to none in thrilling to Callas's massive high Eb at the end of the Mexico *Aida*s or the size _and_ flexibility she displays in the 1952 live *Armida*, but I realise that the majority of singers I like and enjoy are not known for vocal amplitude. Indeed in the theatre I am more likely to be impressed with a singer who can make their _pianissimi_ reach to the far recesses of the hall or house they are singing in. Janet Baker did not have a large voice, but, regardless of the size of the venue, there was never any difficulty hearing her. The voice seemed to float out over the orchestra.


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> Who are you talking about?


Sondra Radvanovsky. Sorry, I am new here and replied in a wrong way.


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Blythe and Podles were similar in size. Eaglen's was bigger in the middle and upper middle registers while Marc's expanded most thrillingly at the top.


Thank you for your answer. it is good to know how these great voices were live.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Fernando Baritone said:


> Please, could you describe how is the experience to hear these singers live. Especially between the voices of the same type like Blythe x Podles and Marc x Eaglen? In my personal experiences with operas live, the biggest voices that I heard were Sondra Radvanovsky - soprano, Anna Smirnova - mezzo soprano and Gregory Reinhart - Bass. The three had very big voices and Gregory was the best experience to me. I am from Rio de janeiro and know a lot people that is seeing opera there for the last 50 years. For those singers that sang there in that time, they are unanimous in saying that the biggest female voice heard there was Ghena Dimitrova (Nilson, Gwyneth Jones, Eaglen and Marc never sang there but Marton did). The male voices were two. Jon Vickers (it is said that was bigger than Del Monaco) and Giangiacomo Guelfi (the biggest baritone voice including Cornell Macneil) and the second was Gianpiero Mastromei


Thank you for this Fernando! Great information!!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Fernando Baritone said:


> Sondra Radvanovsky. Sorry, I am new here and replied in a wrong way.


Problem solved, thank you.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

.uoy knaht ,devlos melborP


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Of those I have heard live: Matti Salminen (as Hagen). After Act I people were saying "nice but he's holding back". In Act II, when he summoned the vassals, he just blew us away. The entire (huge) room was resonating. It was superhuman.

Honourable mention to Peter Rose (as Claggart) - he really gave his all and he was in incredible form. His low notes just went on forever.

And then there is Walter Fink (seen him as Hunding, Fafner and Sarastro) - he's an absolute force of nature.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Last night at ROH, Ekaterina Siurina had a simply astonishing projection as Mimi. Perhaps miscast in this where a suggestion of youth and weakness is not amiss. I beleive as she matures she will be well suited to mature Verdi parts and then perhaps Wagner (I'm the first to admitt I'm not an expert).

We were at the very top of the slips and at times she not only role the Orchestra, she obliterated it! While always remaing musical.

Created a good impression on us a coulple of years ago (below) but the voice is still growing.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I thought I had mentioned this already, but I don't see it here. I heard Andrea Silvestrelli as The Grand Inquisitor at Washington National Opera & it sounded like he was singing through a megaphone. Eric Owens sounded like he had a tiny voice by comparison. Definitely the largest voice I have heard to date. I was thinking about that voice for days after. It was enormous.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Andrea Silvestrelli has sung The Grand Inquisitor here and it was fantastic, though not overpower (he sounded well-matched with René Pape). I have also seen him as the Commendatore, Sparafucile, and the Night Watchman in _Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg_. He is consistently impressive. He is here currently for the Ring, singing Fasolt (tonight) and Hagen (on Sunday). His Hagen was especially memorable.

The biggest voice I have heard live was Andreas Schager as Parsifal at Staatsoper Unter den Linden.

My list of most impressive performances I have seen has some overlap with my list of biggest voices - a powerful voice can be really compelling - but it isn't the same thing.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

mountmccabe said:


> Andrea Silvestrelli has sung The Grand Inquisitor here and it was fantastic, though not overpower (he sounded well-matched with René Pape). I have also seen him as the Commendatore, Sparafucile, and the Night Watchman in _Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg_. He is consistently impressive. He is here currently for the Ring, singing Fasolt (tonight) and Hagen (on Sunday). His Hagen was especially memorable.


I don't know if it was because of where I was sitting or what, but we were in the upper reaches of the house & it felt like he was singing right next to me lol


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

What if Tina Turner did Opera?


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What if Tina Turner did Opera?


Have you ever heard a 'pop' singer put down their microphone? Even in his 70's Tony Bennett used to say I'll give the band a break and sing like it was when I started out. He would then sing a song accapella. Even in the large Albert Hall with a silent audience you could hear him just about reach every corner. He would specifically make a refernce to no pop singers today can do that.

A few years later and Barenboim brought a 100 piece Orchestra to the Proms for The Ring. Nina Stemme rode over the top beautifully. Another level again to Mr Benedetto.

Some of the singers on this thread make Nina's voice seem not that large.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Belowpar said:


> Have you ever heard a 'pop' singer put down their microphone? Even in his 70's Tony Bennett used to say I'll give the band a break and sing like it was when I started out. He would then sing a song accapella. Even in the large Albert Hall with a silent audience you could hear him just about reach every corner. He would specifically make a refernce to no pop singers today can do that.
> 
> A few years later and Barenboim brought a 100 piece Orchestra to the Proms for The Ring. Nina Stemme rode over the top beautifully. Another level again to Mr Benedetto.
> 
> Some of the singers on this thread make Nina's voice seem not that large.


It doesn't surprise me at all. He has a marvelous voice with great upper extension, rarely heard in pop stars. Patti Labelle sang a concert when the mics went out and was heard very well. She has marvelous placement to her voice. The gigantic voiced Eileen Farrell sang pop, but would put the mic 5 or more feet away so she didn't blow it out. Dinone Warwick had a very large voice and always put the mic as far away as she could before hitting a high note. She was a tenor and had a HUGE mouth and very wide cheekbones for projection! Finally, I am sure Garland and Merman could be heard in a moderate sized house without a mic. I blame you for this digression;-)


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Sieglinde said:


> Of those I have heard live: Matti Salminen (as Hagen). After Act I people were saying "nice but he's holding back". In Act II, when he summoned the vassals, he just blew us away. The entire (huge) room was resonating. It was superhuman.
> 
> Honourable mention to Peter Rose (as Claggart) - he really gave his all and he was in incredible form. His low notes just went on forever.
> 
> And then there is Walter Fink (seen him as Hunding, Fafner and Sarastro) - he's an absolute force of nature.


It was one of my dreams to hear Salminem live. It is good to read from someone that had that chance. Fink seems to be really impressive as well. Each one impressed you more?


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> I thought I had mentioned this already, but I don't see it here. I heard Andrea Silvestrelli as The Grand Inquisitor at Washington National Opera & it sounded like he was singing through a megaphone. Eric Owens sounded like he had a tiny voice by comparison. Definitely the largest voice I have heard to date. I was thinking about that voice for days after. It was enormous.


I think Silvestrelli is the biggest bass voice and probably one of the biggest in any classification nowadays, even bigger then Morris Robinson, Hans Peter Konig and Stephen Milling.


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

mountmccabe said:


> Andrea Silvestrelli has sung The Grand Inquisitor here and it was fantastic, though not overpower (he sounded well-matched with René Pape). I have also seen him as the Commendatore, Sparafucile, and the Night Watchman in _Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg_. He is consistently impressive. He is here currently for the Ring, singing Fasolt (tonight) and Hagen (on Sunday). His Hagen was especially memorable.
> 
> The biggest voice I have heard live was Andreas Schager as Parsifal at Staatsoper Unter den Linden.
> 
> My list of most impressive performances I have seen has some overlap with my list of biggest voices - a powerful voice can be really compelling - but it isn't the same thing.


Never saw Silvestreli or Pape live but it seems that Silvestreli has a much bigger voice, although Pape has the most beautiful voice of any bass nowaday. About Schaeger, it seems that it is indeed a really huge sound but it is unfair to compare him to Silvestreli in this case because Staatsoper Unter den Linden is three times smaller than San Francisco Opera and this makes a huge difference in our perception. I already watched smaller voices sounding huge in smaller theaters. I think that one good chance to hear how big Schaeger`s voice really is will be in the next Ring Cycle at the Met. He will play Siegfried and will share this role with Stefen Vinke, another heldentenor really praised in Europe.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Fernando Baritone said:


> Never saw Silvestreli or Pape live but it seems that Silvestreli has a much bigger voice, although Pape has the most beautiful voice of any bass nowaday. About Schaeger, it seems that it is indeed a really huge sound but it is unfair to compare him to Silvestreli in this case because Staatsoper Unter den Linden is three times smaller than San Francisco Opera and this makes a huge difference in our perception. I already watched smaller voices sounding huge in smaller theaters. I think that one good chance to hear how big Schaeger`s voice really is will be in the next Ring Cycle at the Met. He will play Siegfried and will share this role with Stefen Vinke, another heldentenor really praised in Europe.


I agree about Silvestrelli & Pape. Pape has to be considered the best bass in the world for the last decade or so imho.

I was speaking with a colleague the other day who has sung with Silvestrelli. He agreed that the voice is enormous & says it has a ring & cut to it that is uncharacteristic of most basses. Personally, I have never heard anything quite like it.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Rereading what I wrote I feel it might have come off as too dismissive of Silvestrelli.

And after hearing him as Fasolt and Hagen from the balcony I'm more convinced that he has an impressively large voice. He seemed to be quite careful about using it; it doesn't make sense to always be going full volume, overpowering everyone on stage (when that isn't what the part calls for). But when he let that voice go it was resounding.

And I understand that Staatsoper Unter den Linden isn't the same house as War Memorial in San Francisco. But I've also heard multiple singers I saw in that _Parsifal_ in other houses - Stemme at Covent Garden and Davies Symphony Hall here in SF, Pape at the Met and here at the War Memorial, Falk Struckmann here at the War Memorial - so I have some points of reference.

But I also agree that it will be quite something to hear Schager as Siegfried at the Met.

I was not really taken by Stefan Vinke as Tannhäuser at Deutsche Oper Berlin but I've only heard him live that once.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

mountmccabe said:


> I was not really taken by Stefan Vinke as Tannhäuser at Deutsche Oper Berlin but I've only heard him live that once.


From all I've heard about Vinke, it's an ugly voice...but he has the stamina to get through the huge heldentenor roles unscathed & that's enough these days


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## Fernando Baritone (May 1, 2018)

mountmccabe said:


> Rereading what I wrote I feel it might have come off as too dismissive of Silvestrelli.
> 
> And after hearing him as Fasolt and Hagen from the balcony I'm more convinced that he has an impressively large voice. He seemed to be quite careful about using it; it doesn't make sense to always be going full volume, overpowering everyone on stage (when that isn't what the part calls for). But when he let that voice go it was resounding.
> 
> ...


What did you think about the voices of Stemme, Pape and Struckman? I heard that Stemme's voice is impressively large. Probably the largest of any soprano of the present.

I just watched a few videos of Vinke. People say that the voice is very large but of what I saw I didn't like. It seems to be an ugly over metallic voice like Brenna that did Siegfried in San Francisco a few weeks ago. I prefer much more a voice like Schaeger.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

mountmccabe said:


> The biggest voice I have heard live was Andreas Schager as Parsifal at Staatsoper Unter den Linden.


As mentioned in another thread, I just heard Schager as Siegfried this weekend & I concur with you. When he cut that thing loose it was a humongous voice. That guy is a freak of nature


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Bonetan said:


> As mentioned in another thread, I just heard Schager as Siegfried this weekend & I concur with you. When he cut that thing loose it was a humongous voice. That guy is a freak of nature


As opposed to some singers who are a freak of nurture :lol:

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Andreas Schager as Siegfried*

On a less frivolous note: Here is Schager himself, Schmieding away as Siegfried and forging Nothung. He is new to me, but I agree with some of the YouTube comments about a Wagner tenor worthy of the name. It's interesting and appealing to me as well that he seems to have a certain amount of squillo even on the highest notes, A's I believe, rather than that _orribile _white sound someone like Windgassen conjures up. I can't judge about the size of his voice from YouTube, of course, but he is mighty impressive for all that.

Of course I must also say that I would rather any singer sing beautifully rather than simply having the most gargantuan voice in the Milky Way.






Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Barelytenor said:


> On a less frivolous note: Here is Schager himself, Schmieding away as Siegfried and forging Nothung. He is new to me, but I agree with some of the YouTube comments about a Wagner tenor worthy of the name. It's interesting and appealing to me as well that he seems to have a certain amount of squillo even on the highest notes, A's I believe, rather than that _orribile _white sound someone like Windgassen conjures up. I can't judge about the size of his voice from YouTube, of course, but he is mighty impressive for all that.
> 
> Of course I must also say that I would rather any singer sing beautifully rather than simply having the most gargantuan voice in the Milky Way.
> 
> ...


I was actually surprised by the beauty of his voice. His piano singing was quite good & there was definitely no wobble to be found at any time. No ugly sounds either, except when he did it intentionally. He was really the total package when I saw him & the audience felt the same way. Standing ovation. I can't imagine a more perfect Siegfried in these times. & you're absolutely right about the squillo!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

From the clips I've heard, Schager seems to be a loud voice and not much more. Listen to this bit from _Tristan_, recorded this year:






A couple of minutes in I was ready to shut it off. Where is the beauty of timbre? Where's the expressive color in the sound? Do you like the vibratoless effect in soft singing? I don't; I want to hear the intensity of well-supported tone maintained. And as to vibrato, his tends to be slow; at times you can count the beats - not a wobble, but give it time. Maybe he's tired, or whatever. But old Windgassen blows this guy away, never mind Vickers and Melchior.

The _Wesendonck Songs_ reveal what an uninteresting and frankly third-rate singer Schager is when he isn't yelling:






Hate to have to do this, but:






Forget "heldentenor." One of these men knows how to sing - how to sustain a firm tone and a legato line - and the other doesn't.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> From the clips I've heard, Schager seems to be a loud voice and not much more. Listen to this bit from _Tristan_, recorded this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the people here are grading on a curve, WD. Schager is better than Lance Ryan at least. I personally would opt for Vinke of the current Siegfrieds but I can listen to Schager without too much grumbling.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> I think the people here are grading on a curve, WD.


I knew there had to be some explanation.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> From the clips I've heard, Schager seems to be a loud voice and not much more. Listen to this bit from _Tristan_, recorded this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All I can say is that none of you complaints were evident in the house this past sunday. He was sensational & the audience knew they had witnessed something special. I really hope you will get a chance to experience his singing live 

I left the house thinking that Windgassen couldn't carry Schager's jockstrap as a Siegfried, but I never heard Windgassen live so I may be dead wrong.

I offer some reviews of a few Schager performances from some more well-spoken than myself:

http://seenandheard-international.c...rovoking-tristan-und-isolde-from-tcherniakov/

https://bachtrack.com/review-gotter...schager-lang-semperoper-dresden-february-2018

https://bachtrack.com/review-siegfried-schager-barenboim-staatsoper-berlin-june-2016


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> All I can say is that none of you complaints were evident in the house this past sunday. He was sensational & the audience knew they had witnessed something special. I really hope you will get a chance to experience his singing live
> 
> I left the house thinking that Windgassen couldn't carry Schager's jockstrap as a Siegfried, but I never heard Windgassen live so I may be dead wrong.
> 
> ...


When someone offers _this_ as a comparison -

_"If the seemingly infinite vocal resources Schager can call upon to make his way through the third act monologue - it was to that in particular that Wagner referred in his letter - suggest Lauritz Melchior, there was none of the laziness or, at least, somewhat cavalier attitude that could afflict the latter's work,"_ and _"fully worthy of comparison with the great, doubtless mythologised performances of the recorded past"_

- I know I've finally lost my marbles. Or at least _someone_ has. "Infinite vocal resources"? That reviewer should be put on six months leave and forced to listen to recordings of Jacques Urlus from morning to night.

Nothing else in the three reviews suggests that Schager is remarkable for much beyond volume and endurance, but I suppose that's the definition of a "Wagner singer" now, and it's likely that most Siegfrieds and Tristans of the past offered no more. If that's all we can get, and it's what people want, I'm content to stay home and listen to CDs. But I can't help recalling that Wagner, who loved Bellini, said he wanted his music sung "in the Italian manner." If Schager has any idea what that means, it isn't evident in his YouTube clips. Can you even imagine him singing Verdi? Set his mediocre "Wintersturme" alongside any of those "doubtless mythologised performances of the recorded past" - Urlus, Appels, Lorenz, Volker, Melchior, Svanholm, Treptow, Suthaus, Vinay, Vickers, King - and discover that the myths were once realities. I'd like to think that we'll have another heldentenor as fine as even the least of those, but given the state of singing I probably won't live to see it.

Sorry to distract from the subject of the thread, which, if I recall correctly, is loudness.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> When someone offers _this_ as a comparison -
> 
> _"If the seemingly infinite vocal resources Schager can call upon to make his way through the third act monologue - it was to that in particular that Wagner referred in his letter - suggest Lauritz Melchior, there was none of the laziness or, at least, somewhat cavalier attitude that could afflict the latter's work,"_ and _"fully worthy of comparison with the great, doubtless mythologised performances of the recorded past"_
> 
> ...


All of the men you mentioned have beautiful recordings, that cannot be denied. Schager's recordings do not compare. & no I cannot imagine Schager singing Verdi lol. But what I will say, & feel free to call me crazy, but I doubt any of them could make as perfect a Siegfried as Schager. His strengths are absolutely tailor made for this role in particular. I've heard & seen many a great tenor strain & struggle through that role. His power, stamina, youthful exuberance, & physical appearance make him an ideal Siegfried. I've been around enough Wagner singers to know that what I saw on Sunday was special.

Plus you're talking about recordings while I'm speaking on what I experienced in the house, which as I'm sure you would acknowledge can be 2 very different things.

I just hope that you'll have the opportunity to see & hear him in the role on stage


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I knew there had to be some explanation.


I only had Schager doing Gotterdammerung on the Barenboim Proms 2013 performance in my collection, but I've listened to some of these clips in yours and Bonetan's posts. There's been some decline from what I know of his voice since that 2013 performance--the vibrato which was already pretty loose is getting closer and closer to a wobble, and there's more hardness especially when he's pushing the volume.

Even in the 2013, I wouldn't have put him even at Siegfried Jerusalem's level, much less Windgassen or Melchior, but what I'm hearing in the clips from the last year or two is not as good as I'd have expected. If I had the money and time to go to next year's Met Ring, I'd for sure opt for the Vinke performances over the Schager.

Still loads better than Lance Ryan or Jay Hunter Morris though.


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

howlingfantods said:


> Even in the 2013, I wouldn't have put him even at Siegfried Jerusalem's level, much less Windgassen or Melchior, but what I'm hearing in the clips from the last year or two is not as good as I'd have expected.


100% agreed.
.....


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> I only had Schager doing Gotterdammerung on the Barenboim Proms 2013 performance in my collection, but I've listened to some of these clips in yours and Bonetan's posts. There's been some decline from what I know of his voice since that 2013 performance--the vibrato which was already pretty loose is getting closer and closer to a wobble, and there's more hardness especially when he's pushing the volume.
> 
> Even in the 2013, I wouldn't have put him even at Siegfried Jerusalem's level, much less Windgassen or Melchior, but what I'm hearing in the clips from the last year or two is not as good as I'd have expected. If I had the money and time to go to next year's Met Ring, I'd for sure opt for the Vinke performances over the Schager.
> 
> Still loads better than Lance Ryan or Jay Hunter Morris though.


I heard Schager in the house from the 8th row 3 days ago & I have no idea what you're talking about. There's not even a hint of a wobble. There's no hardness. I guess you guys just don't trust my ears, which is your prerogative.

Jerusalem could barely even get through Siegfried without dying. He was never a true heldentenor. & I've heard enough poorly done forging songs from Windgassen to know that he's not Schager's equal in the role.

Have any of you heard him live?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> I heard Schager in the house from the 8th row 3 days ago & I have no idea what you're talking about. There's not even a hint of a wobble. There's no hardness. I guess you guys just don't trust my ears, which is your prerogative.
> 
> Jerusalem could barely even get through Siegfried without dying. He was never a true heldentenor. & I've heard enough poorly done forging songs from Windgassen to know that he's not Schager's equal in the role.
> 
> Have any of you heard him live?


I have not heard him live, and I'm not saying I don't trust your ears, and perhaps he was in particularly good voice when you heard him.

But I also trust my own ears, and the forging song posted above is not good, the Tristan clip posted above is not good.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> I have not heard him live, and I'm not saying I don't trust your ears, and perhaps he was in particularly good voice when you heard him.
> 
> But I also trust my own ears, and the forging song posted above is not good, the Tristan clip posted above is not good.


That means that you're taking clips from YouTube & using them to say that others are better in the entire role. Is that fair? Sure others might sing a more beautiful forging song, or perform well in a studio recording of Tristan. This man must be heard in the house singing these roles for hours on end to truly understand how special an artist he is. I went in thinking that all he was going to offer was power & stamina. Man was I wrong. It was the most impressive live performance I have ever seen & the audience lost its mind when he took his solo bows.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> That means that you're taking clips from YouTube & using them to say that others are better in the entire role. Is that fair? Sure others might sing a more beautiful forging song, or perform well in a studio recording of Tristan. This man must be heard in the house singing these roles for hours on end to truly understand how special an artist he is. I went in thinking that all he was going to offer was power & stamina. Man was I wrong. It was the most impressive live performance I have ever seen & the audience lost its mind when he took his solo bows.


If someone says "this guy was incredible, just as an example, his forging song blew away extremely great tenors of the past 80 years of recording history" and then I hear a clip of him doing the forging song and it's not good, and those people who cited the forging song in particular are *not* saying that the youtube clip is a poor representative sample of how he sounds now, I'm inclined to think that maybe the whole performance might not be that great.

Also I'm not judging him just by these clips--what I'm doing is taking an entire (quite good) performance of Gotterdammerung I have from 5 years go, comparing it to what I'm hearing from clips from over the past year, and pointing out that there's clear and audible deterioration. You do not need a full performance to be able to tell that the wide vibrato is spreading, or that the big and loud notes are getting harder and less pleasant.

edited to add--I also have not heard Melchior, Lorenz, Windgassen, or really virtually anyone else that we often talk about live, and I suspect you have not either. I think we are still allowed to have opinions about their abilities.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> If someone says "this guy was incredible, just as an example, his forging song blew away extremely great tenors of the past 80 years of recording history" and then I hear a clip of him doing the forging song and it's not good, and those people who cited the forging song in particular are *not* saying that the youtube clip is a poor representative sample of how he sounds now, I'm inclined to think that maybe the whole performance might not be that great.
> 
> Also I'm not judging him just by these clips--what I'm doing is taking an entire (quite good) performance of Gotterdammerung I have from 5 years go, comparing it to what I'm hearing from clips from over the past year, and pointing out that there's clear and audible deterioration. You do not need a full performance to be able to tell that the wide vibrato is spreading, or that the big and loud notes are getting harder and less pleasant.
> 
> edited to add--I also have not heard Melchior, Lorenz, Windgassen, or really virtually anyone else that we often talk about live, and I suspect you have not either. I think we are still allowed to have opinions about their abilities.


No doubt. But I think what we hear live will always trump a recording, especially when it was 3 days ago. I take these clips & compare them to what I just heard (plus his career trajectory) & hear a big improvement. I can also say with certainty that there is no wide vibrato & that the big notes are sensational. It is very possible that I caught him at his absolute best...MountMcCabe, another contributor here & possibly the most frequent opera goer among us, also spoke very highly of Schager after hearing him live. I wish I could dig up his review to show you...


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Here you go...I asked MountMcCabe who the best singer he heard on his eurotrip was & here was his answer:

"Andreas Schager.

Same answer for most impressive singer I have heard in my life."

Has to count for something to get this sentiment from both of the TC contributors who have heard him in the house, right?

He also heard Vinke as Tannhauser on the trip & had this to say:

"Stefan Vinke was fine as Tannhäuser. Not quite holding the role, not quite thrilling, and not quite pleasant to listen to. There wasn't a whole lot for him to do, though the character seemed extra agitated/unleashed during the act 2 singing contest."


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Many voices come across better in a live acoustic than in recorded close up. The close miking of a live performance, such as we get on Met broadcasts, can be unforgiving, exposing imperfections that are simply lost between stage and audience. I remember listening to Franco Corelli in Met broadcasts of the '60s and '70s and wondering how the audience could go hysterical over his sliding and sobbing and bellowing and gargled French, and I had to remind myself that the man was probably thrilling to hear live despite these crudities. Schager no doubt has an exciting resonance that counts for much in the theater but is fairly meaningless in a recording. This makes recordings, especially live recordings, a superior medium for analyzing a voice's finer qualities. If we want to judge an opera singer fairly as a performer, we should hear them live. If we want to judge their vocal skills and the finer points of their musicianship, recordings are invaluable.

Given that, we can only dream of what it was like to hear Flagstad and Melchior sing _Tristan_ or _Gotterdammerung_ in the opera house. But we can know without a doubt that we can hear no one like them now. I don't doubt that Schager is an effective Siegfried onstage. I simply hear nothing that would make me care if he records the role, or anything else for that matter.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Many voices come across better in a live acoustic than in recorded close up. The close miking of a live performance, such as we get on Met broadcasts, can be unforgiving, exposing imperfections that are simply lost between stage and audience. I remember listening to Franco Corelli in Met broadcasts of the '60s and '70s and wondering how the audience could go hysterical over his sliding and sobbing and bellowing and gargled French, and I had to remind myself that the man was probably thrilling to hear live despite these crudities. Schager no doubt has an exciting resonance that counts for much in the theater but is fairly meaningless in a recording. This makes recordings, especially live recordings, a superior medium for analyzing a voice's finer qualities. If we want to judge an opera singer fairly as a performer, we should hear them live. If we want to judge their vocal skills and the finer points of their musicianship, recordings are invaluable.
> 
> Given that, we can only dream of what it was like to hear Flagstad and Melchior sing _Tristan_ or _Gotterdammerung_ in the opera house. But we can know without a doubt that we can hear no one like them now. I don't doubt that Schager is an effective Siegfried onstage. I simply hear nothing that would make me care if he records the role, or anything else for that matter.


I can definitely agree with this.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> Here you go...I asked MountMcCabe who the best singer he heard on his eurotrip was & here was his answer:
> 
> "Andreas Schager.
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, I respect your opinions and much as I also respect McCabe's opinions, it's certainly not necessary for you to draft anyone else to support your own. As is generally the case when I offer my own opinions, it's only my own, and if you disagree, more power to you. I don't think I'm "right", whatever that would mean in the case of aesthetic judgments, I'm just telling you what I think.

What I think is that of the various recordings I have of Schager and Vinke, I would give the slight edge to Vinke (I've saved his Siegfried and Gotterdammerungs from 2015 and 2016 Bayreuths, vs only Gotterdammerung for Schager from the 2013 Proms, so I have relatively much more Vinke than Schager to refer to in my collection), and that the vocal trouble areas for Schager from 2013 seems to have gotten worse since then. You prefer Schager to Vinke? A valid opinion, but one I mildly disagree with. You prefer Schager to Windgassen? Still a valid opinion, one which I vehemently and greatly disagree with, but you're free to have it.

It is undeniable that Windgassen did habitually screw up the Forging Song--I don't know if there a Siegfried that ever had worse rhythm than he--so I'd definitely pick Schager to do the hammering over Windgassen.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> JIt is undeniable that Windgassen did habitually screw up the Forging Song--I don't know if there a Siegfried that ever had worse rhythm than he--so I'd definitely pick Schager to do the hammering over Windgassen.


:lol: Windgassen never had a particularly beautiful sound either - some people really dislike it - but he was an extremely canny vocal artist with superior interpretive instincts and a vocal technique that held up well over years of singing strenuous roles. Vocal timbre aside (if you can put it aside), his _Siegfried_ and _Tristan_ are fully rounded portrayals and are really pretty extraordinary, at least on the recorded evidence. Not a true heldentenor, but a fine "anti-hero tenor" whom I greatly admire.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> :lol: Windgassen never had a particularly beautiful sound either - some people really dislike it - but he was an extremely canny vocal artist with superior interpretive instincts and a vocal technique that held up well over years of singing strenuous roles. Vocal timbre aside (if you can put it aside), his _Siegfried_ and _Tristan_ are fully rounded portrayals and are really pretty extraordinary, at least on the recorded evidence. Not a true heldentenor, but a fine "anti-hero tenor" whom I greatly admire.


Like his frequent collaborator Nilsson, I actually am not always much of a fan of the voice as voice, but consider both excellent artists, performers and vocal technicians. In Windgassen's case, I think he balances the sprech and the stimme extremely well--I find his Gotterdammerung Siegfried possibly the most moving, despite the obvious flaws. I also like that he's a tenorial Siegfried, not one of these beefy baritonal tenors--I think it emphasizes the callow youth and vulnerability of the character. For me, I take the singer with a lesser instrument who moves me over someone with a better instrument who doesn't every time.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Keep arguing, guys, makes me even more excited to hear Schager's Siegfried live next Sunday in Götterdämmerung. :angel:


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

interestedin said:


> Keep arguing, guys, makes me even more excited to hear Schager's Siegfried live next Sunday in Götterdämmerung. :angel:


I'll be very excited to hear your thoughts!!


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Andreas Schager is singing Siegfried in both _Siegfried_ and _Götterdämmerung_ at the Met in April/May. The free live streams are May 9 and 11, so we'll get a chance to hear him in that way.

Though I suppose I'll miss them, since I'll be in Germany.


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## JoeSaunders (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm willing to bet Schager's voice is up to snuff. There are definitely enough 'opera' people I know praising his voice, and I know singers often record worse than they sound in real life, as it were. My experience hearing Klaus Florian Vogt live definitely reinforced my impression that singers can sound infintely better in person than on record; his voice carried over the orchestra effortlessly and gave me a truly ethereal Lohengrin, despite his pathetic sounding youtube clips. 

I don't know if my ears are failing me here, but does Schager's vocal timbre remind anyone else of Rene Kollo? I love Kollo's quite raw interpretations of Wagnerian roles, so (in my view) it'd nice to see someone carry the torch!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

JoeSaunders said:


> I'm willing to bet Schager's voice is up to snuff. There are definitely enough 'opera' people I know praising his voice, *and I know singers often record worse than they sound in real life*, as it were. My experience hearing Klaus Florian Vogt live definitely reinforced my impression that singers can sound infintely better in person than on record; his voice carried over the orchestra effortlessly and gave me a truly ethereal Lohengrin, despite his pathetic sounding youtube clips.
> 
> I don't know if my ears are failing me here, but does Schager's vocal timbre remind anyone else of Rene Kollo? I love Kollo's quite raw interpretations of Wagnerian roles, so (in my view) it'd nice to see someone carry the torch!


Especially a big honking voice like Schager's imo...I've also heard similar things about Vogt from colleagues, although I haven't had the pleasure of hearing him live yet. Definitely on my to do list since he's so controversial. Reviews, colleagues, & those like you who have heard him live speak highly of him. Those going off his YouTube clips hate him & rightfully so lol

I wish I had heard Kollo live so that I could speak on that. But from what I've gathered Kollo was a little over-parted in the heavier rep. No such thing as over-parted with Schager & his voice was actually very pleasant to the ears. But he definitely brings some of that rawness


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Here's a review of the performance I went to with Schager as Siegfried. It's in Dutch, so the translation is a little rough, but I couldn't find one in english:

https://vlaamswagnergenootschap.blogspot.com/2018/11/claus-guth-met-siegfried-en.html

Here's the section about Schager:

"In Andreas Schager as Siegfried voice and acting come together in a way that is rare in the heroic field. It is the total picture that counts and then I have to admit that Schager outclasses everyone I have seen at work in the last 30 years as Siegfried, whether in the theater or on video. The voice is still beautiful of timbre and seems to have gained in depth. Yet it is only slightly baritoneally colored so it shines like a clarion and in the power passages sometimes appears a little blunt but never gets unpleasant. Never does the voice sound forced and Schager must have a strong trust in his technique because he does not spare at any time."


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