# Single Round. Ya vas liubil. Hvorostovsky, Shtokolov



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Dmitri Hvorostovsky singt "Ich habe dich geliebt". Dieser Song ist eine russische Romanze nach einem Gedicht von Alexander Puschkin, vertont von B. Sheremetev




* Shtokolov- Ya vas liubil (I Loved You) (B.Sheremetev)*


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

@Seattleoperafan 
These are two different musical pieces, one is Tchaikovsky, the other one is Sheremetev. But I liked Shtokolov better.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

This is the Sheremetev's piece sung by Hvorostovsky.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> This is the Sheremetev's piece sung by Hvorostovsky.


Bless you !!! I am out of my depth with these Russian arias. Totally. But I wanted to try to address that genre. I am so glad you were the first to try this and see my error. They both came up right next to each other in my search and it confused me. Not too many Russian singers on Youtube.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

If you want somebody on Tchaikovsky, this film version looks nice: 




Evgeny Gavrilovich.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Pass the tissues please. Don't even ask me who wins. One sounds like a bass and the other a baritone.
Give me the baritone.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Pass the tissues please. Don't even ask me who wins. One sounds like a bass and the other a baritone.
> Give me the baritone.


I thought you would like these. Yes one is a bass. They were the only two I knew were stars who sang this and it sounded lovely.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

How intriguing John, two different pieces but both, in their own way, so from the core of that musical culture. Wonderful!

I think that both voices are phenomenal!!! Shtokolov has justifiably won great praise on here and Hvorostovsky....not so much....thank God for Nina! Young, dark haired Hvorostovsky just sounds swooningly beautiful to me. I don't know Pique Dame and its probably to his advantage because I usually find, that as a singer of the music, his instincts are terrific but he often doesn't go far enough for me. I was impatient to start and quickly felt I should have gotten the words but then, just sitting back and listening, I found it musical,with a sense of rise and fall and just a thoroughly enjoyable listen.

If Shtokolov's performance were any more "Roo-Shun" he would have swallowed his own voice. But, assuming this was a song and not a formal classical piece, I'm guessing that those who are more familiar with the genre would say he was completely appropriate. For me, it was delicious hearing him chewing on that music and those words! 

I really cannot choose but Dimitri needs friends more than Boris and that sound is me all the way!


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> How intriguing John, two different pieces but both, in their own way, so from the core of that musical culture. Wonderful!
> 
> I think that both voices are phenomenal!!! Shtokolov has justifiably won great praise on here and Hvorostovsky....not so much....thank God for Nina! Young, dark haired Hvorostovsky just sounds swooningly beautiful to me. I don't know Pique Dame and its probably to his advantage because I usually find, that as a singer of the music, his instincts are terrific but he often doesn't go far enough for me. I was impatient to start and quickly felt I should have gotten the words but then, just sitting back and listening, I found it musical,with a sense of rise and fall and just a thoroughly enjoyable listen.
> 
> ...


I think BBSVK got me on the same page with the right aria or song or whatever it is. I don't know Russian classical singing. I should have asked for help but I don't know anyone knowledgeable in this genre.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Actually, if I compare them both in Sheremetev's romance,I like Hvorostovsky better. Maybe that music is just easier for the first listen. Because,shame on me, I still don't know Pikovaya dama.

@Seattleoperafan, if you want this to be about the Sheremetev's romance, you might want to change the title. But if you keep different music for each, people have fun anyway, as you see.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I don't know Russian classical singing. I should have asked for help but I don't know anyone knowledgeable in this genre.


@ColdGenius is Russian, he might know.

I should be able to recognize if the stuff is the same at least by words, because Slovak is similar to Russian. 

(Edit: I also speak Russian and can read azbuka)


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Okay....so the stroke I admired was an accident...who cares!!! It helped Dimitri get a vote. With those (I assume) balalaika's vibrating away I probably would have wanted Shtokolovs extra dollop of Russian gloom over Dimitri's adonis sound. Still a great post all around!


----------



## Branko (3 mo ago)

If I may - one of my favorite bass arias of all time.....Prince Gremin sings about Tatyana in Eugene Onegin

Shtokolov


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Branko said:


> If I may - one of my favorite bass arias of all time.....Prince Gremin singing about Tatyana in Eugene Onegin
> 
> Shtokolov


Coming up in a contest a bit later on.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Well! Now they sing the same piece. The choice between a bass and a baritone is not as easy as between a tenor and a baritone. Schtokolov has made a gloomier, sad rendition. Though the verses are about finished love, they never seemed to me sombre or depressive. It's a fair shade of sadness. But Schtokolov sounds attractive, as if it wasn't him who had broken the connection. 
P.S. I don't know why did they need balalaika, I think it could be easily omitted.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> If you want somebody on Tchaikovsky, this film version looks nice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a snippet from a movie "Queen of spades" 1960, where all the roles were played by dramatic actors and opera singers sang offscreen. Yeletsky was sung by Eugene Kibkalo.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

My pitiful attempt of translation. 
I used to love you:
Perhaps love hasn't faded in my soul;
But let it disturb you no more, I wouldn't like to sadden you with anything. 
I used to love you silently, hopelessly, 
tormented by timidity or jealousy;
I used to love you so sincerely, so tenderly, 
I wish God would make you be loved by another man this way.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I think BBSVK got me on the same page with the right aria or song or whatever it is. I don't know Russian classical singing. I should have asked for help but I don't know anyone knowledgeable in this genre.


I could help at least with language. 
There are many Russian operas and countless romances (Lieder), which are poorly known even in Russia. I try to explore it alongside all the other opera. Another problem is that this all is underrecorded. Nevertheless some stagings of Bolshoi and since 1990-s of Mariinsky were released on DVD or broadcasted.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> There are many Russian operas and countless romances (Lieder), which are poorly known even in Russia. ... Another problem is that this all is underrecorded. ...


And now imagine the recording situation of Slovak operas


----------



## Branko (3 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I don't know Russian classical singing. I should have asked for help but I don't know anyone knowledgeable in this genre.


I don't know whether this might be of interest? Some time ago I got this book. I think it is rather good - has all the songs translated into English and interesting write-ups about them too - and perhaps it could lead to further exploration. 

















The same author published about the Tchaik songs too (I have not got this one yet)









All available on amazon, I believe.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Branko said:


> I don't know whether this might be of interest? Some time ago I got this book. I think it is rather good - has all the songs translated into English and interesting write-ups about them too - and perhaps it could lead to further exploration.
> 
> View attachment 179679
> View attachment 179680
> ...


I'll check that lead out!!! I need some bass songs. I tried to include Chaliapin singing Dark Eyes but no one else sang it.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I'll check that lead out!!! I need some bass songs. I tried to include Chaliapin singing Dark Eyes but no one else sang it.


Work off of this list - "Opera Arias for Bass" -





__





Loading…






www.opera-arias.com





You'll notice that none of them have received particularly high ratings - 

The three highest are - "Alimento alla fiamma" from Poliuto - "O patria o cara patria" from I Vespri Siciliani - and "Ihr Mächtigen seht ungerührt" from Zaide (Das Serail)

Although no expert, I'm fairly certain that Frank Sinatra never sang any of these on "Your Hit Parade"...

Once you get "basses" out of your system - Go back to "babes" -


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

I have a list of prominent basses but I kind of hesitate to provide you with this information for fear that you'll continue doing these bass contests - 

Anyway...

Boris Christoff

Nicolaï Ghiaurov

Jerome Hines

René Pape

Kurt Moll

Martti Talvela

Cesare Siepi

Matti Salminen


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

*Nicola Zaccaria* used to be a frequent Oroveso from Norma, which is also a bass role. Today, I notice mostly *Michele Pertusi* in this role and similar bel canto.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Ferruccio Furlanetto
Eugeny Nesterenko
Nikolay Vedernikov
Vladimir Matorin. 
Modern ones are Dmitry Belosselsky and Stanislav Trofimov.


----------



## Branko (3 mo ago)

Miroslav Changalovich (Cangalovic)  
Paata Burchuladze


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)




----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I have a list of prominent basses but I kind of hesitate to provide you with this information for fear that you'll continue doing these bass contests -
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> ...


I am choosing a lot of these but not so much Martti and Matti. I'l have to look for them.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Work off of this list - "Opera Arias for Bass" -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The problem is the majority of these have just a few people who sing them on Youtube and none are famous. I am sticking with what I have but thanks. I did find a Rachmaninov song with two bases and Netrebko ( 36/24/36) when she was young.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I'll check that lead out!!! I need some bass songs. I tried to include Chaliapin singing Dark Eyes but no one else sang it.


I found a Rachmaninoff song with 2 basses and 2 sopranos. It should work. Thanks.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't know this song and I really enjoyed both versions, one a baritone and one a bass. If I ended up voting for Hvorostovsky, it was mostly to even up the voting because both were really beautiful.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Hvorostovsky without hesitation - I actually listened to this one - The raven-haired babe on the cover was probably what kept my attention the most and by "most" I mean "entirely".

Shtokolov - not quite to my taste - If I listened to it any less than I actually did then technically it went practically unheard...


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I found a Rachmaninoff song with 2 basses and 2 sopranos. It should work. Thanks.


Please do not dismiss this winner.
(maybe make it a contest)


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Please do not dismiss this winner.
> (maybe make it a contest)


And at 90 years old!!!!!!!!!Bring hankie.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

nina foresti said:


> And at 90 years old!!!!!!!!!Bring hankie.


If you need another aria of Gremin to pair this guy or somebody else up, this is the Gremin that lives in my head, because I had him on a vinyl once:


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Please do not dismiss this winner.
> (maybe make it a contest)


I have him in other contests and initially had him in this contest but I couldn't find a fourth to compete with him other than student singers.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Oh, wait, it's not the aria from Queen of Spades?

Mmmmm. Pop music is like Trovatore, all you need is the greatest voice in the world! (Caruso was wrong, by the way, it turned out that what you needed for Trovatore was Franco Corelli and Giulietta Simionato.)

Back to Russian "Trash" (as opposed to all the wonderful Russian art song and folk song). In this rep you need to flaunt it and only Shtokolov has "it"*.

*"It" being very hard to define here (but there's no doubt an untranslatable Russian word for it, that means a mix of high cheese and art cringe that is literally and unironically so bad it's good!)

N.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> If you want somebody on Tchaikovsky, this film version looks nice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This does indeed look good!

N.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> Oh, wait, it's not the aria from Queen of Spades?
> 
> Mmmmm. Pop music is like Trovatore, all you need is the greatest voice in the world! (Caruso was wrong, by the way, it turned out that what you needed for Trovatore was Franco Corelli and Giulietta Simionato.)
> 
> ...


You are precise as ever.
Russian romance is a peculiar genre. It easily turns to something shabby, gypsy-like without any romantic colouring, when it's sung by just anyone. I can't stand it myself when non-classical singers with rarest exception try it.

About "it" 😁 Russian is overwhelmingly rich, many words, many synonyms and euphemisms, even more shades of meaning. But I couldn't remember any, except universal IT - это (eto).


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> You are precise as ever.
> Russian romance is a peculiar genre. It easily turns to something shabby, gypsy-like without any romantic colouring, when it's sung by just anyone. I can't stand it myself when non-classical singers with rarest exception try it.
> 
> About "it" 😁 Russian is overwhelmingly rich, many words, many synonyms and euphemisms, even more shades of meaning. But I couldn't remember any, except universal IT - это (eto).






In continuation of the topic.


----------

