# Michael Gordon and something called Totalism?



## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

So I was at work and was listening to a public access station that plays everything from Jazz to Prog, to Classical, to odd talkshows about conspiracies or whatever else wants airtime on it. I heard a piece that sounded pretty odd when I put it on the station, and wasn't sure what to expect. It was a piece called Van Gogh Video Opera. It had violins it it, and sounded quite odd, and then some vocals that I wouldn't say were really vocals exactly like what you find in Classical music. I didn't want to make the mistake of "there's violins in it so it's classical".. But something of it did remind me of classical music and to me it seemed like it at least borrowed something from the classical idiom.

So anyway, later I wikied Michael Gordon and he's known for something called Totalism? I've never seen that talked about around here, and I'm not sure how close one would consider it to classical. I've never heard any other "Totalist" piece but this one, so I don't know, but I did like it and I would probably listen to it again someday.

Anyway, I was wondering what people thought about Michael Gordon and Totalism in general.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Never ever heard of the good man, sorry.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

"Essay on Postminimalism and Totalism" - http://www.kylegann.com/postminimalism.html


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Though I really like Michael Gordon's music, I can't say I've ever heard the word "totalism" before. So I guess I have a new word to describe the contemporary music I like - thanks HB for that article.

Also, I can't say I ever considered the possibility that Gordon's music - which I first heard back in the early 1990s - isn't classical music. At the time (and even more so now) it struck me as a perfectly reasonable direction for classical to go in.

Whenever I included something from that stream of contemporary music in one of my polls, it invariably got few if any likes; I suspect this was due to a total obliviousness to this sort of music rather than a dislike as such, though I'm now curious as to how "acceptable" a work like _Van Gogh_ is.

The recording of that work is on Bandcamp: http://michaelgordonmusic.bandcamp.com/album/van-gogh-4


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalism

From what I can deduce from the article, it is a kind of further development of Minimalism. The first generation of Minimalists emphasized their minimal nature, while the next generation took those techniques and made something a little different. Minimalism is typically called "post-modern," but perhaps Totalism is a bit more cosmopolitan or polystylistic version of minimalism. Polyrhythms seems to be the emphasis in Totalism. I know a single piece by Michael Gordon, which perhaps may be called Totalist because it involves extended sections of hemiola (2:3 ratio), but I could hear more to study.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Also, I can't say I ever considered the possibility that Gordon's music - which I first heard back in the early 1990s - isn't classical music. At the time (and even more so now) it struck me as a perfectly reasonable direction for classical to go in.
> http://michaelgordonmusic.bandcamp.com/album/van-gogh-4


This is kind of what I was wondering. When I heard it I thought it sounded enough like classical as any other modern classical stuff I've heard. But at the same time it included some other elements too, polystylism I guess, as Huilun said. Some of the stuff I heard reminded me of prog. Then again, this comes from somebody who sees similarities between prog and Mahler. But yeah, I was wondering just how much in the classical tradition people consider this kind of stuff. One of the reasons that make me wonder is the fact that I've never heard the term Totalist on TC before. If it was a big thing in Classical music I assume I'd have seen a thread on it at some point.

So are they classical? If so, is the reason it never gets talk about on TC because it's a very small and niche sub-genre of Classical?


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## Sina (Aug 3, 2012)

Dedalus said:


> One of the reasons that make me wonder is the fact that I've never heard the term Totalist on TC before. If it was a big thing in Classical music I assume I'd have seen a thread on it at some point.
> 
> So are they classical? If so, is the reason it never gets talk about on TC because it's a very small and niche sub-genre of Classical?


Contemporary music is hardly discussed here. I don't mean to make a fool of myself and say never, but come on let's face it, for the majority "classical music" is limited to up to 19th century, and the reasons are different.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Sina said:


> Contemporary music is hardly discussed here. I don't mean to make a fool of myself and say never, but come on let's face it, for the majority "classical music" is limited to up to 19th century, and the reasons are different.


Not sure how you got this idea. There is a lot of discussion of 20thc music. My impression is that most TC members have 20thc composers among there favorites.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

This stuff is sort of Kyle Gann's pet thing...he's written a lot about it, for example http://www.kylegann.com/postminimalism.html


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## NicoleJS (Aug 13, 2016)

I went to Youtube and sampled a bit of Michael Gordon's music. Some of it is pretty good, like the song "Timber", which is played entirely on wood blocks, or "Weather" which is pretty upbeat. I don't know if either of those fall into the Totalism genre, but Wikipedia lists his song "Acid Rain" as Totalist, and I found that I don't care for that one as much. It seems too chaotic, which may actually be one of Totalism's defining features.

When I listen to instrumental music, I prefer it to be mellow enough to be used as background music (which Timber does well) or have a catchy melody or rhythm that a vocal track would only ruin. The chaos in Acid Rain only ticked me off because it wasn't relaxing enough for background music and while some people might appreciate its musicality, to me it's as infuriating as someone who uses the wrong steps in a math problem but somehow comes up with the right answer.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Hildadam Bingor said:


> "Essay on Postminimalism and Totalism" - http://www.kylegann.com/postminimalism.html


This ex planes a lot for me.


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