# Buying a Violin? Need Some Help!



## Moss

Hi all,

I'm a new member of your community; and would appreciate some advise on buying a Violin for my Daughter.

She is a classically trained muscician, although not on a stringed instrument. I have looked at the Intermediate range of Violins on offer at £150.00 to £300.00 - of which there many, mostly imports from China or Eastern Europe. I would like to get a Violin that would be suitable to reach Grade 8 or beyond; but do no want to spend a lot of money! What should I look for? New? Used? I need help. 

My Daughter is a Musician and a Director of Music at a very large Public School, she plays a variety of insruments; and is a classically trained singer.

The Violin would be used for her own pleasure; and maybe used (at a later date with some accomplishment) with a school or church orchestra. Age 34,

Can you Help? Advise and guidance appreciated.


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## senza sordino

Try a few different violins, but from my limited experience, the cheaper the violin the worse it sounds. But not always the reverse is true! Some cheap violins sound so bad that you could put strings on an old wooden box and make a better sound. And if the instrument sounds bad you won't want to play it. A couple hundred pounds sounds cheap to me, but you might find something good for that price, but I think you might need to spend over £500.


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## Moss

senza sordino said:


> Try a few different violins, but from my limited experience, the cheaper the violin the worse it sounds. But not always the reverse is true! Some cheap violins sound so bad that you could put strings on an old wooden box and make a better sound. And if the instrument sounds bad you won't want to play it. A couple hundred pounds sounds cheap to me, but you might find something good for that price, but I think you might need to spend over £500.


Thanks for the reply,

I understand the logic of getting a quality instrument; and must admit, I agree in principle. I'm buying the instrument as a christmas gift; and not really wanting to spend more than £300.00 on a Violin. Could you give me your opinion on this >

http://www.cardiffviolins.co.uk/beginners-to-intermediates/p/20/i/273/desc/andantino/

http://www.cardiffviolins.co.uk/setting-up-for-success/

Many thanks

Moss


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## mamascarlatti

I think a violin is something that you should buy WITH the recipient. It's a personal thing.

And to be honest, £300 for an adult violin is not going to sound good, particularly to a trained musician. I paid more for my 11 year old's 1/2 size, and that's before we talk about the bow.


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## Moss

mamascarlatti said:


> I think a violin is something that you should buy WITH the recipient. It's a personal thing.
> 
> And to be honest, £300 for an adult violin is not going to sound good, particularly to a trained musician. I paid more for my 11 year old's 1/2 size, and that's before we talk about the bow.


I understand your logic of buying a quality instrument, could I ask you to look at the LINKs I posted for Cardiff Violin's.?? They give a breakdown of the work done to these Violin's before they sell them. Would appreciate your thoughts on value for money item. Thanks.


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## GraemeG

Can't be done. Beyond the age of ten, the player _has_ to try the instrument themselves.
GG


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## mamascarlatti

GraemeG said:


> Can't be done. Beyond the age of ten, the player _has_ to try the instrument themselves.
> GG


Absolutely. Even before that if they have been playing for a while.


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## mamascarlatti

Moss said:


> I understand your logic of buying a quality instrument, could I ask you to look at the LINKs I posted for Cardiff Violin's.?? They give a breakdown of the work done to these Violin's before they sell them. Would appreciate your thoughts on value for money item. Thanks.


I did have a look but honestly I can't tell by looking, I'd have to hear it played, preferably alongside others, by your daughter. I presume these are mass-produced in China. Apart from the basic quality of the shape and the wood and the varnish, there are all sorts of other things - how good are the strings, is the soundpost well placed and good quality, how carefully is the bridge adjusted, how good is the bow, how well crafted are the pegs and are they easy to adjust - all of this takes effort and money.

Please note this violin is aimed at beginners or intermediate. When you are a beginner you don't have the technique to make the difference, or the ear to hear it. But once you are at intermediate level, either through your ears or your technique, quality of instrument/bow makes a difference, and it's very frustrating to be limited by a poor instrument (I know even from learning the piano as an adult, not being able to make the sounds I heard in my head because my first intrument didn't have the sensitivity to respond to my touch).

And as Graeme says, what suits is personal. All violins differ, and their feel and sound differ, and what suits one player might be anathema to another.


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## Moss

Thanks everyone,

I'm already re,thinking the purchase of a Violin, this needs more research to aquire the correct instrument.


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## millionrainbows

Find an instrument used; that's my advice, but I'm in an area (a city) which has a thriving university, so good used violins appear in pawn shop at the end of every school year. Look for a fiddle with good resonance, which plays well. Avoid Sri Lanka and Chinese-made fiddles. Look for older German boxes, like Lewis, in the 200 dollar and under range. There is a local luthier here who makes great violins, and I got one of his for cheap. Just look.


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## senza sordino

I tried a few new bows today. I went to see a private seller and luthier today. I have thought that my own bow is a bit soft and heavy. I tried some cheaper bows, $200 and found no difference. I tried some $700 bows and I liked two of them, light and stiff. 

Then I tried three violins. I loved one of them, a 100 year old violin, a German made copy of a 17th century Italian. $3300. It was fantastic, so much more sound than mine. It resonated brilliantly in the higher positions. I played in the fifth and seventh position on the A and D string and I could feel and hear the sound box continue to sound and resonate after I stopped bowing. My instrument just doesn't sound like that. 

I wonder if I could really I improve my playing, I wonder how much further I could go with this violin. 

I'll have to consider this purchase carefully. I can afford it, but it would be a big purchase. 

I don't know if the vendor will take mine as a trade in.

What do you people think?


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## Jaws

Moss said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a new member of your community; and would appreciate some advise on buying a Violin for my Daughter.
> 
> She is a classically trained muscician, although not on a stringed instrument. I have looked at the Intermediate range of Violins on offer at £150.00 to £300.00 - of which there many, mostly imports from China or Eastern Europe. I would like to get a Violin that would be suitable to reach Grade 8 or beyond; but do no want to spend a lot of money! What should I look for? New? Used? I need help.
> 
> My Daughter is a Musician and a Director of Music at a very large Public School, she plays a variety of insruments; and is a classically trained singer.
> 
> The Violin would be used for her own pleasure; and maybe used (at a later date with some accomplishment) with a school or church orchestra. Age 34,
> 
> Can you Help? Advise and guidance appreciated.


Here is my rule of thumb for violins. ( I own a lot violins that go out on loan to adults wanting to have a go at playing the violin.)

For something suitable to play in any amateur orchestra in the UK the cheapest you can safely buy is about £800. I have just bought a new Chinese violin and that cost more than £300 before I had it improved with the work that you describe. I didn't buy it from a shop in the UK I imported it from China so it wasn't retail at £300.

One of the problems you have is that grade 8 doesn't mean anything. You could take and pass grade 8 on a violin costing £60 for the violin the case and the bow because it is such an elementary test and because it tests little more than fingerings. So forget the grade thing and think about what she might want to play it in. If she wants to play it in an amateur orchestra then you are looking at about £800 for the violin alone. The case and the bow will be extra.

So now are we talking about a violin to play in ensembles rather than a violin to take beginner exams like grade 8?

The cheap Chinese violins are made out of cheap Chinese wood. The violin shop can do all the work improving the instruments but if the basic body of the instrument is made out of cheap wood you are still going to be left with something that doesn't sound very nice. You have to remember that adults knows how a violin should sound and so are not going to be content to play something that sounds awful.

People think that violins are cheap and the basic beginner childrens' violins are but for an adult you need something a bit better.


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## Jaws

senza sordino said:


> I tried a few new bows today. I went to see a private seller and luthier today. I have thought that my own bow is a bit soft and heavy. I tried some cheaper bows, $200 and found no difference. I tried some $700 bows and I liked two of them, light and stiff.
> 
> Then I tried three violins. I loved one of them, a 100 year old violin, a German made copy of a 17th century Italian. $3300. It was fantastic, so much more sound than mine. It resonated brilliantly in the higher positions. I played in the fifth and seventh position on the A and D string and I could feel and hear the sound box continue to sound and resonate after I stopped bowing. My instrument just doesn't sound like that.
> 
> I wonder if I could really I improve my playing, I wonder how much further I could go with this violin.
> 
> I'll have to consider this purchase carefully. I can afford it, but it would be a big purchase.
> 
> I don't know if the vendor will take mine as a trade in.
> 
> What do you people think?


The policy in my house is that golf membership and clubs nearly always costs more per year than playing a musical instrument and no one thinks it is too much to pay. So if you like the violin and it would improve your playing experience there is no reason not to go ahead and buy it.


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## Ingélou

senza sordino said:


> I tried a few new bows today. I went to see a private seller and luthier today. I have thought that my own bow is a bit soft and heavy. I tried some cheaper bows, $200 and found no difference. I tried some $700 bows and I liked two of them, light and stiff.
> 
> Then I tried three violins. I loved one of them, a 100 year old violin, a German made copy of a 17th century Italian. $3300. It was fantastic, so much more sound than mine. It resonated brilliantly in the higher positions. I played in the fifth and seventh position on the A and D string and I could feel and hear the sound box continue to sound and resonate after I stopped bowing. My instrument just doesn't sound like that.
> 
> I wonder if I could really I improve my playing, I wonder how much further I could go with this violin.
> 
> I'll have to consider this purchase carefully. I can afford it, but it would be a big purchase.
> 
> I don't know if the vendor will take mine as a trade in.
> 
> What do you people think?


I'd say, go for it. You can make some economies - cut your own hair - give up wine for three months - cut down on hobby-purchases - but how will you live without this beautiful fiddle?

Guilty edit: Easy for me to say; obviously, if purchasing would cause hardship or injustice, then don't; but music is about the spirit, and you have to feed the spirit if you can.


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## DavidA

I remember when my daughter had a shot at learning the violin. It was an old violin that had belonged to my father. She did her best, poor kid, but an us diagnosed hearing impediment didn't help her progress. So n the end we gave it up as a bad job. But I still have nightmares about going to concerts with about 20 or so ten year olds playing together slightly out of tune! 
We sold the violin to a dealer. Sad to see it go but hope it found a good home with someone like the OP's daughter!


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## senza sordino

Thank-you for your input.

There is something to consider with buying an expensive violin. It shouldn't depreciate in value. It's not a consumable like a car, furniture or CDs of music.

I would like a certificate of authenticity. 

I will ask my violin teacher tomorrow what he thinks.


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## senza sordino

I spoke with my violin teacher this morning. He hinted that it's probably time for me to move onto a better violin. I currently have a good student violin, I paid $1500, 15 years ago. Perhaps it's time for a violin in the $3000-5000 price range. That's not something I can just spend on a whim. I should check out some other vendors. 

After playing that 100 year old violin two days ago, I think might be an Amati copy, I can tell the difference in quality between that price range and what I currently play. I've also played violins worth a couple of hundred dollars, theses were no more than a wooden crate with taut strings. 

This will not be a rash and impetuous decision.

My instrument is fine, but not great. It doesn't sing and resonate in high positions. Artificial harmonics are rather dead on the A and E string. There isn't a lot of volume from my violin, okay for second desk of the second violins. However, okay is frequently not enough.


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## senza sordino

That 100 yr old violin wasn't an Amati copy, upon further clarification. A German copy of an older German maker.

I went to another music shop today crosstown to try expensive violins. I was underwhelmed. The new $2000 violins sounded poor, and the one older violin did sound better, but nothing special. 

So I got to thinking, since new violins need to be broken in and played a lot before they really can sound to their fullest potential, should I buy an old violin? This isn't something I had considered before I started to look around. 

I don't want to replace my violin with another like sounding instrument, what's the point? In fact, I think my instrument sounded better than all of the instruments I tried today.


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## pirastro

I know that generally the more one spends, the easier it is to get a sound one likes, but aren't you guys being a little ambitious? My first kit was horrid. If one perseveres, one starts to improve. Eventually, one feels one is being limited by the instrument. Then you get a better one and the process starts anew.
Odds are, if she continues, figure a year before the kit is inadequate and bow or case or fiddle will be replaced. I would have no fun at all playing with my earliest instruments abut had a ball at the time. What's wrong with getting the best you can with the budget you have. 'Sides, we all know a good player will sound much better on a bad instrument than a bad player on a good one (though probably enjoying it less).


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## PlaySalieri

If your daughter is involved at such a professional level in music - I doubt if a budget instrument is really suitable.

An instrument of some minimal quality will cost at least £2000 and that would be a good starting point.

However - if you really cant buy anything more than a chinese instrument - dont despair - as the most significant factor in how a violin sounds is the player and a fine player on a cheap instrument will sound better than a poor player on a strad.


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