# Understanding me.



## JamieHoldham

I think alot of people on this forum think of me as a nobody, someone who trys to "compose" yet comes up with so little - on top of the fact alot of people don't seem to understand patience or the magnitude and scale of the works I try to compose.

So I just want to briefly outline why I compose so much, yet I post so little - and why I rarely use notation software, preferring pen / paper / mind.

Firstly, I do compose alot of music.. sketches. I keep about 100-200 or so pages that have material worth keeping, but most of it gets binned - or some sketches I leave in my head because certain material and ideas can be so good that I remember it to use in compositions later on.

Second, and obviously, I post so little because it's slightly more difficult to post good quality, clear images of my manuscripts, rather than just a very quick upload wmv. file: done with notation programmes.

Thirdly, my preference of composing traditionally was born from the studying the manuscripts of the great composers, namely Johann Sebastian Bach; where I would watch videos such as these:





Seeing such complex music, and seeing the advantages of being forced to learn to develop aural skills such as perfect pitch (debatable as to whether or not you can after a certain age, but I am trying regardless.) and just the joy of putting onto paper what you can't in a notation programme, yourself, your handwritting, your mannerisms and a reflection of your own personality, in a way.

And lastly the scale of what I compose - I have tried smaller works and successfully composed 2 works so far, Ave Verum Corpus (Op.1), Ave Maria (Op.2)... links below... (although be warned, I will eventually remove them from my opus, since they are very early works, and I barely knew much at all about music theory).

Ave Verum Corpus: http://www.talkclassical.com/44750-ave-verum-corpus-opus.html?highlight=
Ave Maria: http://www.talkclassical.com/45199-ave-maria-strings-satb.html?highlight=

Besides those (and others in sketches) I have done some composing on smallers works, but it doesn't do it for me.. I don't feel like I can express myself or my music through anything less than a standard orchestra or more. That's why I now only work on Symphonys (now and again), Opera (planned) and other large scale works such as Symphonic Poems.

Needless to say, composing for such a large amount of instruments, as well as being a perfectonist, AND composing on paper, having to rely on my aural skills to hear the different pitches and timbres of the instruments - while accounting for dynamics, volume, accidentals, vibrato and numerous of other things -- this is very difficult, but I enjoy it thoroughly.. and if that isn't good enough for some people around here then they can go to hell.

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Now to stop myself before I go off tangient - but I hope this helps people understand that I am not lazy, I do composer and am a composer - I am just extremely ambitious, maybe too much for my own good.. as well as my perfectionism being a massive wall in the way when trying to achieve anything in life, not just composing.

_fine_


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## Captainnumber36

JamieHoldham said:


> I think alot of people on this forum think of me as a nobody, someone who trys to "compose" yet comes up with so little - on top of the fact alot of people don't seem to understand patience or the magnitude and scale of the works I try to compose.
> 
> So I just want to briefly outline why I compose so much, yet I post so little - and why I rarely use notation software, preferring pen / paper / mind.
> 
> Firstly, I do compose alot of music.. sketches. I keep about 100-200 or so pages that have material worth keeping, but most of it gets binned - or some sketches I leave in my head because certain material and ideas can be so good that I remember it to use in compositions later on.
> 
> Second, and obviously, I post so little because it's slightly more difficult to post good quality, clear images of my manuscripts, rather than just a very quick upload wmv. file: done with notation programmes.
> 
> Thirdly, my preference of composing traditionally was born from the studying the manuscripts of the great composers, namely Johann Sebastian Bach; where I would watch videos such as these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing such complex music, and seeing the advantages of being forced to learn to develop aural skills such as perfect pitch (debatable as to whether or not you can after a certain age, but I am trying regardless.) and just the joy of putting onto paper what you can't in a notation programme, yourself, your handwritting, your mannerisms and a reflection of your own personality, in a way.
> 
> And lastly the scale of what I compose - I have tried smaller works and successfully composed 2 works so far, Ave Verum Corpus (Op.1), Ave Maria (Op.2)... links below... (although be warned, I will eventually remove them from my opus, since they are very early works, and I barely knew much at all about music theory).
> 
> Ave Verum Corpus: http://www.talkclassical.com/44750-ave-verum-corpus-opus.html?highlight=
> Ave Maria: http://www.talkclassical.com/45199-ave-maria-strings-satb.html?highlight=
> 
> Besides those (and others in sketches) I have done some composing on smallers works, but it doesn't do it for me.. I don't feel like I can express myself or my music through anything less than a standard orchestra or more. That's why I now only work on Symphonys (now and again), Opera (planned) and other large scale works such as Symphonic Poems.
> 
> Needless to say, composing for such a large amount of instruments, as well as being a perfectonist, AND composing on paper, having to rely on my aural skills to hear the different pitches and timbres of the instruments - while accounting for dynamics, volume, accidentals, vibrato and numerous of other things -- this is very difficult, but I enjoy it thoroughly.. and if that isn't good enough for some people around here then they can go to hell.
> 
> ---------
> 
> Now to stop myself before I go off tangient - but I hope this helps people understand that I am not lazy, I do composer and am a composer - I am just extremely ambitious, maybe too much for my own good.. as well as my perfectionism being a massive wall in the way when trying to achieve anything in life, not just composing.
> 
> _fine_


Good for you! I love composing too and understand the passion. I know your method is to fight those who you feel are needlessly putting your work down, but mine is to just talk the facts about what I have created and stand by it.

People really must learn tact when dealing with such personal issues such as art.


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## JamieHoldham

I agree wholeheartedly Captain ^

Art cannot be rushed.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Jamie mate, trust me, no one thinks you're a nobody. Nobody looks at the manuscripts you write and thinks you're a loser. What you do is admirable and ambitious, and you have released some very cool sounding music that shows you can put money where your mouth is. 

I think over time, you'll get better at dealing with criticism, whether justified or not, and learn how to use it to improve and develop yourself as a composer, rather than see it as an attack on your character. It's a normal part of maturing as an artist that even the greatest had to go through - someone already mentioned Rachmaninoff earlier and he was a good example.


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## Jacob Brooks

"People really must learn tact when dealing with such personal issues such as art."

I beg to differ, kind sir.


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## Daniel Atkinson

With time comes maturity and with practice, education and patience comes professionalism. 



Daniel


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## SiegendesLicht

Richard Wagner worked on his most glorious 14 hours of music for 26 long years. So don't sweat, and keep working. I really hope you will compose that Lif and Lifthrasir opera of yours.


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## Portamento

I don't think there's anything to understand, Jamie. In fact, you need to stop making these attention-seeking threads about so-called "critics". Because that's what this is about, isn't it? 'Understanding me' is another way of saying... "Don't critic me". It's getting a bit annoying, to be honest. Sure, Vasks crossed the line, but you crossed the line 15 times in return. Then people's colors are "revealed" when they support Vasks and not you? Beethoven's 9th got a review saying: "It is so execrably and ponderously dull." Oh my God! That critics true colors have been revealed! They are Satan, out to destroy the universe! Were Brahms' and Joachim's true colors revealed when they said that Schumann's Violin Concerto sucked (for lack of better words)? NO! Absolutely not! You need to respond sensibly to their criticism, keep composing and _ignore_ them, or leave the forum altogether. Can't you see that they are egging you on because you are quick to react? Obviously not. :tiphat:


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## Alexanbar

We can not see what are exist inside your head, we can not come to your cabinet and we may estimate your achievements as a composer only from your posts.

No posts, no scores, no phonograms - no achievements.

And also scores and phonograms must have apropriate quality if it possible.


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## Captainnumber36

Jacob Brooks said:


> "People really must learn tact when dealing with such personal issues such as art."
> 
> I beg to differ, kind sir.


How tactfully spoken, good sir! .

There is a difference between professionals and laymen. Amongst professionals, we must use tact when critiquing each other, the layman can say their emotionally tinged statements all they want.

That is my thinking, it's very unprofessional to not use tact with a colleague.


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## JamieHoldham

Also since I made the point of the original post made, the admins can feel free to close this thread immediately.


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## JeffD

Let your music do your explaining. There need be nothing else.


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## JamieHoldham

JeffD said:


> Let your music do your explaining. There need be nothing else.


That was the main point of this thread, that I do make music, and I do take it seriously.. however the mob has come to take it off topic, insult me and shut down my third thread in a row.


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## Captainnumber36

I do think there is a real problem with the way many posters on this site critique other's music. It's sarcastic, rude, inappropriate, and unprofessional.

I think JamieHOldham is simply taking the language used against him, and turning it on those who used it on him because he wants to show them what it's like.

That isn't my style with strangers, but I applaud him for taking a stand for all of us artists on this board.

There is no need to be rude and downright ugly to each other.


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## JamieHoldham

Captainnumber36 said:


> I do think there is a real problem with the way many posters on this site critique other's music. It's sarcastic, rude, inappropriate, and unprofessional.
> 
> I think JamieHOldham is simply taking the language used against him, and turning it on those who used it on him because he wants to show them what it's like.
> 
> That isn't my style with strangers, but I applaud him for taking a stand for all of us artists on this board.
> 
> There is no need to be rude and downright ugly to each other.


Your the saint in all this, I should applaud you :tiphat:

I wish I could ignore insults in such a way as you, but my fight or flight survival instincts come in, and I must fight 

Anyway, I do agree 100% with your comment, hits the nail on the head, and seals the coffin that is this "argument".

I just want criticism to be said in a constructive way, however around here no one has heard of that. It's just your music is bad -- and if there is a reasoning, there is no advice on how to make it better.

Imagine if Beethoven after composing his revolutionary 9th Sinfonie, had a asshat call it bland and uninteresting for some reason with no rationale. That would drive him nuts, as it would to me.


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## JeffD

JamieHoldham said:


> Imagine if Beethoven after composing his revolutionary 9th Sinfonie, had a asshat call it bland and uninteresting for some reason with no rationale. That would drive him nuts, as it would to me.


Oh they called it that, and worse:



> "The fourth movement is, in my opinion, so monstrous and tasteless and, in its grasp of Schiller's 'Ode,' so trivial that I cannot understand how a genius like Beethoven could have written it. I find in it another proof of what I had already noted in Vienna, that Beethoven was wanting in aesthetic feeling and in a sense of the beautiful." -- composer Louis Spohr, a contemporary of Beethoven





> "We find Beethoven's Ninth Symphony to be precisely one hour and five minutes long; a fearful period indeed, which puts the muscles and lungs of the band and the patience of the audience to a severe trial..." -- The Harmonicon, London, 1825


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## JeffD

Take heart in this: you are not pushing the envelope if everyone is happy with you.


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## Taggart

JamieHoldham said:


> Also since I made the point of the original post made, the admins can feel free to close this thread immediately.


The thread is now closed. Some off topic posts have been removed.


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