# Pieces most groanworthy?



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Which pieces make you groan as soon as you hear the opening notes? And are they pieces that you originally gorged on until they sickened you?
For me, it's a toss-up between the Londonderry Air & Paganini's Dance from The Witches (Suzuki Violin II). 
I might have quite liked the former for about five and a half minutes...
But it's too emotional - & the Paganini too horribly arch.


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

For me it's Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #1.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

No such piece for me. I like all classical music pieces.

Best regards, Dr


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Not always as soon as the opening notes, but almost any work that utilizes national anthems, hymns, marches, waltzes, old ditties (either popular or forgotten) typically elicits exasperation from this listener.

(which is why I love what Charles Ives had done with any or all of the above.  )


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hausmusik said:


> For me it's Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #1.


Yeah, it's a trial, but I'll usually listen for a few minutes, just in case. Ravel's Bolero is an Instant Off.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Leroy Anderson "Sleigh Ride"


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Felix Mendelssohn's Wedding March. The one and only reason it makes me groan is exactly it's overuse as a wedding march. Don't musunderstand me, I am all for marrying and starting a family, but the empty pomposity of these white gown/limousine/show-off contests called "weddings", which are driven by a desire to please the crowd of people who have really come only for the sake of drinking and partying, is a major put-off, and that is what Mendelssohn's March is associated with in my mind. This is really a case where extramusical factors prevail.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I can't stand the Londonderry Air especially since that God-awful sappy "You Raise Me Up" became so popular...I just roll my eyes every time I hear that tune, in whatever form it is. 

But most of my groan-worthy examples are from non-classical examples, though I guess maybe I'm tired of "Largo al factotum" and Grieg's Piano Concerto.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

For me it is Beethoven's Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio in G major, Op. 129, which I call "Rage over Lost Divinity." This annoying piece of fluff gets the instant skip treatment.

I'm not real fond of overly nationalistic pieces either, so the Hungarian Dances and the slavonoic blah-blahs, and the Ma Vlasts, and the Hoedowns get turned off almost as quickly.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Weston, I actually cotton to Hungarian Dances, but I did enjoy your rant. Rage on!


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

Pachelbel's Canon: even worse than having to play it is having to hear anyone else play it.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I was sick of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik by the time I was 15.
I knew and liked Also Sprach Zarathustra before "2001 . . ." liked its use in the movie, but rapidly grew tired of everyone else over-using or over-playing it.
For some reason, in movies and television, playing the piano is synonymous with "Fur Elise" -- which I can no longer stand.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Bone said:


> Pachelbel's Canon: even worse than having to play it is having to hear anyone else play it.


When it 'debuted' on WQXR many years ago (played from a Musical Heritage Society recording), there followed many call-in requests for "Paco Bell's Canon/Canyon".


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## eighthundredfortynine (Apr 5, 2012)

Everything between 1750 and 1910.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

For me, my ears leap when Lyric FM announce they'll play some Mozart, then I switch channels at the following words, "the opening movement of Eine Kleine..."


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

eighthundredfortynine said:


> Everything between 1750 and 1910.


eighthundredfortynine, I believe you may have posted to the wrong thread. Here's a link to the thread you may have been looking for.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

I definitely have to add my voice to the suggestion of "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik".

It isn't a poor work, by any means. But I find very little in it that is extraordinary: C, G7, C, G7, and so on. The melodies are catchy, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than Haydn's many divertimenti for winds. I think it's very overused.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Pachelbel's Canon and Beethoven's "Fur elise"

Although I can listen to the version below of Beethoven:


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## eighthundredfortynine (Apr 5, 2012)

Hausmusik said:


> eighthundredfortynine, I believe you may have posted to the wrong thread. Here's a link to the thread you may have been looking for.


I´m actually 99% serious with that statement. I started with the music between 1750 and 1910 (I actually started with Wagner and Bruckner). Back then I couldn´t stand much of the stuff before 1750 and after 1910. During my years of listening to music that completely changed. I´m now mostly into polyphony and minimalism. Therefore most of the music of the classical and romantic periods isn`t of much interest to me. I find especially most of the music of the romantic period to be rather bland to my ears nowadays. I´m not saying it´s bad music it just makes me go: yeah whatever.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

eighthundredfortynine said:


> I´m actually 99% serious with that statement. I started with the music between 1750 and 1910 (I actually started with Wagner and Bruckner). Back then I couldn´t stand much of the stuff before 1750 and after 1910. During my years of listening to music that completely changed. I´m now mostly into polyphony and minimalism. Therefore most of the music of the classical and romantic periods isn`t of much interest to me. I find especially most of the music of the romantic period to be rather bland to my ears nowadays. I´m not saying it´s bad music it just makes me go: yeah whatever.


I tend to Agree with 1849- the thread asks for "Pieces most groanworthy?" and if 1849 considers the works written b/n 1750 and 1910 groanworthy(which I tend to agree with also), then this statement is valid.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Ingenue said:


> Paganini's Dance from The Witches (Suzuki Violin II).


aaargh I hear this at least once a week played by my 10 year old. I am heartily sick of the whole Suzuki violin repertoire.


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I tend to Agree with 1849- the thread asks for "Pieces most groanworthy?" and if 1849 considers the works written b/n 1750 and 1910 groanworthy(which I tend to agree with also), then this statement is valid.


So is there one particular piece that you find especially offensive? Just curious - I certainly think CPE Bach, Haydn, Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, Mozart, et al wrote their share of clunkers, but I find it challenging to resign every work of a given time period to the rubbish bin. But that's just me; to each his own, eh?


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

For me it's Fur Elise, probably mostly because my neighbour keeps playing it in mornings on weekends.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Yep"CPE Bach, Haydn, Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, Mozart, et al" all groanworthy, in my opinion- but you had not heard what I like. Opinions are just that – does not matter that you disagree


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Beethoven's 5th. I can take the other symphonies relatively better than that one's opening notes...


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Re the Suzuki repertoire - I first of all liked the Thomas Gavotte that follows the Paganini Witchdance, but its jauntiness quickly irritated me. I coped brilliantly with having to play it repeatedly, though, after I'd made up a set of extremely rude lyrics.
May I recommend this method when you're trapped with a groanworthy piece?


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> *Pachelbel's Canon* and Beethoven's "Fur elise"


Yep, I still hate that piece, no matter how hard I try to like it...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

MaestroViolinist said:


> Yep, I still hate that piece, no matter how hard I try to like it...


I think it is quite a good piece of music.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Novelette said:


> I definitely have to add my voice to the suggestion of "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik".
> 
> It isn't a poor work, by any means. But I find very little in it that is extraordinary: C, G7, C, G7, and so on. The melodies are catchy, but I wouldn't rate it any higher than Haydn's many divertimenti for winds. I think it's very overused.


The thing about Eine Kleine is, it was written for a specific purpose as light entertainment for the aristocracy. It serves its purpose well, its crystal clear and catchy, has a lovely second movement. But over-familiarity kills it for me, plus the fact that our classical radio station plays it more than all other Mozart combined, most likely...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

The national anthem of Australia. 
That thingy from Swan Lake
Blue Danube Waltz
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Tchaikovsky piano concerto no. 1
Für Elise
Pachelbel's Canon without the gigue and played at half speed or less and overly romanticised (the original version is still the best.)
But above all.....POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE MARCH NUMBER ONE _GROOOOOAAAAANNNNNN_


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Pachelbel's Canon and Beethoven's "Fur elise"
> 
> Although I can listen to the version below of Beethoven:


That's excellent! There's no-one else like Ludwig for wringing that rag dry...


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The national anthem of Australia.


Heh, I must agree with you on that one.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Bone said:


> Pachelbel's Canon: even worse than having to play it is having to hear anyone else play it.





Huilunsoittaja said:


> Beethoven's 5th. I can take the other symphonies relatively better than that one's opening notes...


I too am in no hurry to listen to those two (but do have them in my collection), esp. Canon in D. & as regards to this:



ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> ...
> Pachelbel's Canon without the gigue and played at half speed or less and overly romanticised (the original version is still the best.)
> ...


I agree, sometimes the speed just doesn't sound right, even to my untrained ears. What are they doing?

& agree re the Australian national anthem, _Waltzing Matilda_ would be better.

& not necessarily groanworthy but again things I'm in no hurry to listen to for the umpteenth time are J.S. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos (is this heresy?). But I actually don't mind Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik nor many of the other things mentioned already, but once in a while.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sid James said:


> _Waltzing Matilda_ would be better.


Yeah, a song about a guy who stole a sheep and jumped in a lake really says something about this country...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Yeah, a song about a guy who stole a sheep and jumped in a lake really says something about this country...


Well at least it hasn't got the ridiculous word "girt" in it :lol:

But seriously WM has got a better tune. Some national anthems are without lyrics. Why not ours if people don't like the convict connotations? I got no problems with it. Australia did start as a penal colony, Britain's overseas prison, but things have changed now 200 years later, so whats the big deal?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Well at least it hasn't got the ridiculous word "girt" in it :lol:


I think less than 1% of the Australian population actually knows what it means.



Sid James said:


> But seriously WM has got a better tune.


Well it depends on which version of WM you mean...the QLD verison is awfully cheesy...



Sid James said:


> Some national anthems are without lyrics. Why not ours if people don't like the convict connotations? I got no problems with it. Australia did start as a penal colony, Britain's overseas prison, but things have changed now 200 years later, so whats the big deal?


I propose *THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF AUSTRALIA* with an anthem without lyrics composed by me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I shall start a thread in the Aussies group.....


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The national anthem of Australia.


And what do you think about the national anthem of Germany?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

> Well it depends on which version of WM you mean...the QLD verison is awfully cheesy...
> ...


Haven't heard it.



> ...
> I propose *[HR]THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF AUSTRALIA[/HR]* with an anthem without lyrics composed by me.


Maybe we can just merge with the People's Republic of China, since our trade with them is keeping our economy afloat, adopt their anthem. Easier, no? Isn't it 'the march of the volunteers?' Anyway I'm joking of course. Even they aren't Commo in practice any more. They've become decadent capitalists, comrade!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm against capitalism.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Sid James said:


> Maybe we can just merge with the People's Republic of China, since our trade with them is keeping our economy afloat, adopt their anthem. Easier, no? Isn't it 'the march of the volunteers?' Anyway I'm joking of course. Even they aren't Commo in practice any more. They've become decadent capitalists, comrade!


Even if this was just a joke and has nothing to do with music, I still find this reply groanworthy. The lefties...


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm against capitalism.


lower case letters are far more elegant!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> And what do you think about the national anthem of Germany?


One of the nicer ones.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I think less than 1% of the Australian population actually knows what it means.
> 
> Well it depends on which version of WM you mean...the QLD verison is awfully cheesy...
> 
> I propose *THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF AUSTRALIA* with an anthem without lyrics composed by me.


It seems that any nation which features the word People's in its name usually end up being a totalitarian dictatorship - be careful what you wish for, Aussies!

:lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> It seems that any nation which features the word People's in its name usually end up being a totalitarian dictatorship - be careful what you wish for, Aussies!
> 
> :lol:


Well that's true....but hopefully it will not happen this time!!!

For my presidential campaign I will make education, hospitals and public transport free and provided by the government (payed for by taxes), equal pay, more opportunities for asylum seekers entering the country and establishing themselves as citizens here, more public housing, more arts funding...stuff like that, haven't really thought about it too much yet.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

What makes me groan are those too-well-known pieces that crop up in films and TV, showing how little imagination whoever is responsible for choosing the music has. Like "O fortuna" or the Ode to Joy at dramatic moments. Or when the psycho character puts on a record or CD and it's something lovely by Bach or Schubert and you just _know_ he's about to mutilate someone...


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm against capitalism.


I'm sure the Chinese will take you in,they would really appreciate you.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Well that's true....but hopefully it will not happen this time!!!
> 
> For my presidential campaign I will make education, hospitals and public transport free and provided by the government (payed for by taxes), equal pay, more opportunities for asylum seekers entering the country and establishing themselves as citizens here, more public housing, more arts funding...stuff like that, haven't really thought about it too much yet.


One couldn't tell at all you know.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Waltzing Matilda was my dad's favorite song. He used go around humming it off key all the time. It's quite a pleasant melody. 

I will never ever need to hear Dvorak's 9th again, ever.


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## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

moody said:


> I'm sure the Chinese will take you in,they would really appreciate you.


One does not have to be communist to oppose capitalism.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Zauberberg said:


> One does not have to be communist to oppose capitalism.


What you appear to be unaware of is that the coagulated one said that he was a communist and was using the communist flag at one point.not to mention the Peoples' Republic of Australia stuff.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Ingenue said:


> Re the Suzuki repertoire - I first of all liked the Thomas Gavotte that follows the Paganini Witchdance, but its jauntiness quickly irritated me. I coped brilliantly with having to play it repeatedly, though, after I'd made up a set of extremely rude lyrics.
> May I recommend this method when you're trapped with a groanworthy piece?


Sounds like a plan, but perhaps one I won't share with the ten-year-old in case she gets expelled from summer camp for teaching to the others.

Funnily enough I don't mind that Gavotte because I like the opera that it comes from and when it drives me bananas I think of Frederica von Stade singing it like a queen. Same with hunter's chorus from Der Freischütz, all those lovely boys in lederhosen.

And now that she's is in book four I can ditch some of the awful heavy Suzuki recordings for something a bit more authentic, for the Vivaldi and Bach at least.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

The ghastly Lark Ascending and the oily Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia.
I thought i'd done this once--wonder were it went ?


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a groaning fixation on Gordon Getty's music, buhaaaaaaa! (a friend of mine made me sit still for the duration of a hole Getty album (Pentatone) a few weeks ago and I still have mental scars from that time...  )

/ptr


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

moody said:


> The ghastly Lark Ascending and the oily Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia.
> I thought i'd done this once--wonder were it went ?


That's odd. I'd never even heard of the Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia. It must be overused on a TV show in the UK or something. I had to look it up, but, yes. Hearing it once was more than enough.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

elgars ghost said:


> It seems that any nation which features the word People's in its name usually end up being a totalitarian dictatorship - be careful what you wish for, Aussies!
> 
> :lol:


Communism has never been big here, even a Republic of Australia is shaky. Australians rejected a change to a republic in a referendum in the 1990's. As for People's Republic or Democratic Republic of Australia, its as likely as...dunno...Commonwealth of China...or United Australian Emirates?! We'll probably only become a republic if/once the UK becomes one. I don't really care personally, I'm happy with the current system, we are independent anyway, we're just not called a republic but a commonwealth. So what?



ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Well that's true....but hopefully it will not happen this time!!!
> 
> For my presidential campaign I will make education, hospitals and public transport free and provided by the government (payed for by taxes), equal pay, more opportunities for asylum seekers entering the country and establishing themselves as citizens here, more public housing, more arts funding...stuff like that, haven't really thought about it too much yet.


Well pollies always promise many of those things, and more often than not don't deliver. Or give us a half baked raw deal. I'm pretty cynical and apathetic about it all. I've seen it all before, many times. Rhetoric rarely equals reality.



SiegendesLicht said:


> And what do you think about the national anthem of Germany?


I read its a rehash of God Save the Queen. That's what Haydn based those variations on in his 'Emperor' Quartet. Its not by St. Antoni or whoever. I think this is really ironic.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Well, quite a few people don't seem to like Pachelbel's Canon, but this is actually a good version of it: 




:lol:


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Communism has never been big here, even a Republic of Australia is shaky. Australians rejected a change to a republic in a referendum in the 1990's. As for People's Republic or Democratic Republic of Australia, its as likely as...dunno...Commonwealth of China...or United Australian Emirates?! We'll probably only become a republic if/once the UK becomes one. I don't really care personally, I'm happy with the current system, we are independent anyway, we're just not called a republic but a commonwealth. So what?
> 
> Well pollies always promise many of those things, and more often than not don't deliver. Or give us a half baked raw deal. I'm pretty cynical and apathetic about it all. I've seen it all before, many times. Rhetoric rarely equals reality.
> 
> I read its a rehash of God Save the Queen. That's what Haydn based those variations on in his 'Emperor' Quartet. Its not by St. Antoni or whoever. I think this is really ironic.


Let's get things right.
Deutschland Ueber Alles (Germany Above All) was written by Haydn for thr birthday of the Emperor Francis 11 of the Holy Roman Emperor.
It was meant to rival Britain's God Save the King/Queen .
The same tune is used in his Kaiser quartet.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I add that "Deutschland Ueber Alles" (words not by Haydn) is not a song with offensive lyrics, unless you dislike German wine or German women. Then all bets are off.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Weston said:


> That's odd. I'd never even heard of the Adagio of Spartacus and Phrygia. It must be overused on a TV show in the UK or something. I had to look it up, but, yes. Hearing it once was more than enough.


You're right, Weston. It was the theme tune for a long-running drama based on 19th century sailing clippers, 'The Onedin Line', with a rough-diamond handsome star who just died recently. I had a crush on him (though I can't remember his name) so when I hear this tune, I see a gorgeous gallant three-master sail into view and oh.....!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

KenOC said:


> I add that "Deutschland Ueber Alles" (words not by Haydn) is not a song with offensive lyrics, unless you dislike German wine or German women. Then all bets are off.


There is also the mention of German singing, and I don't know how anyone can dislike that. From Schubert to Rammstein there is something for everybody  :cheers:

The words were written by Hoffmann von Fallersleben (who was also, just like my favorite man, devoted to the studies of Teutonic antiquity), and no, there is nothing offensive in them.

And I may be mistaken, but it sounds absolutely nothing like "God Save the Queen".


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is also the mention of German singing, and I don't know how anyone can dislike that. From Schubert to Rammstein there is something for everybody  :cheers:
> 
> The words were written by Hoffmann von Fallersleben (who was also devoted to the studies of Teutonic antiquity), and no, there is nothing offensive in them.
> 
> And I may be mistaken, but it sounds absolutely nothing like "God Save the Queen".


I've already covered that!


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Sid James said:


> ...
> I read its a rehash of God Save the Queen. That's what Haydn based those variations on in his 'Emperor' Quartet. Its not by St. Antoni or whoever. I think this is really ironic.


Incorrect. _God Save the Queen_ had nothing originally to do with Joseph Haydn at all. It was almost certainly an English tune that was already well used / known by the time the Baroque English composer Thomas Arne was around.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Rapide said:


> Incorrect. _God Save the Queen_ had nothing originally to do with Joseph Haydn at all. It was almost certainly an English tune that was already well used / known by the time the Baroque English composer Thomas Arne was around.


Close, I heard "God Save the King/Queen/Old Fart" was his inspiration...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

moody said:


> Let's get things right.
> Deutschland Ueber Alles (Germany Above All) was written by Haydn for thr birthday of the Emperor Francis 11 of the Holy Roman Emperor.
> It was meant to rival Britain's God Save the King/Queen .
> The same tune is used in his Kaiser quartet.


Well I read that Haydn composed that tune basing it on God Save the King. Its like variations on that theme. Of course as many composers did, the result sounds different, but apparently that was the source. I remember reading this in another source, again I might come back and quote it here.

But the wikipedia entry basically says what you're saying, it was Haydn's response to the British anthem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_erhalte_Franz_den_Kaiser


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> You're right, Weston. It was the theme tune for a long-running drama based on 19th century sailing clippers, 'The Onedin Line', with a rough-diamond handsome star who just died recently. I had a crush on him (though I can't remember his name) so when I hear this tune, I see a gorgeous gallant three-master sail into view and oh.....!


Yes, this is one of those pieces of music that can "date" a person, at least in the UK/Ireland. If you were born before the mid-70s or so, you probably associate the Spartacus Adagio with sailing ships...

Intriguing snippet from Wikipedia:


> The programme was extremely popular in Romania. After a visit to North Korea the dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu opted to replace the programme (and other popular shows) with broadcasts designed to show off the success of his policies. Consequently the population tuned in to foreign stations to follow the series. In 1989 these channels carried news broadcasts of events such as the fall of the Berlin Wall which were absent from Romanian television news. This in turn contributed to the uprising which brought down the Ceaușescu regime.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Communism has never been big here, even a Republic of Australia is shaky. Australians rejected a change to a republic in a referendum in the 1990's. As for People's Republic or Democratic Republic of Australia, its as likely as...dunno...Commonwealth of China...or United Australian Emirates?! We'll probably only become a republic if/once the UK becomes one. I don't really care personally, I'm happy with the current system, we are independent anyway, we're just not called a republic but a commonwealth. So what?
> 
> Well pollies always promise many of those things, and more often than not don't deliver. Or give us a half baked raw deal. I'm pretty cynical and apathetic about it all. I've seen it all before, many times. Rhetoric rarely equals reality.
> 
> I read its a rehash of God Save the Queen. That's what Haydn based those variations on in his 'Emperor' Quartet. Its not by St. Antoni or whoever. I think this is really ironic.


Sid,have you listened to these various compositions at all?
The main tune in the St.Antoni Chorale was based on a hymn sung by pilgrims on St.anthony's day. It is thought that Haydn's pupil Pleyel put it together.


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## cmudave (Feb 19, 2013)

Re - Beethoven's Fifth: Even if you are sick of this particular work you will doubtless enjoy "New Horizons in Music Appreciation," from Peter Schickele. Brings new life to the enjoyment of this piece (the 1st movement).


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## cmudave (Feb 19, 2013)

Beethoven's Opus 91 "Wellingtons Sieg" is not played that frequently, but is an example of a piece that I simply cannot stand. 

Excerpt from the wikipedia entry on this piece: 
"The music simulates approaching opposing military regiments and contains extended passages depicting scenes of battle.

It uses older themes, such as "God Save the King," "Rule Britannia" for the British, and "Marlbrough s'en va-t-en guerre" ("Marlborough Has Left for the War") for the French – the tune now known as "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" or "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow." "

I remember having to listen to this piece in my 1st term Music History class 20 years ago. The absurdity of the piece stands out in my memory, as well as the sarcastic commentary from my professor following the performance. Beethoven acknowledged that the piece was crap, but it was a huge moneymaker for him at the time. He famously responded to his critics by saying ""What I s##t is better than anything you could ever think up!"


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

moody said:


> Sid,have you listened to these various compositions at all?
> The main tune in the St.Antoni Chorale was based on a hymn sung by pilgrims on St.anthony's day. It is thought that Haydn's pupil Pleyel put it together.


I checked that source I was talking about. My memory of it was incorrect. What you said is correct. The British and German anthems are not linked, other than Haydn hearing God Save the King and seeking to write a thing of similar quality (but not rehashing it as I said).


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

cmudave said:


> Beethoven's Opus 91 "Wellingtons Sieg" is not played that frequently, but is an example of a piece that I simply cannot stand.
> 
> etc.


I agree wholeheartedly with this entire statement, and I idolize Beethoven. I can't believe he had anything to do with this orchestral equivalent of "Chopsticks" or "Heart and Soul" for the piano.


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

Definitely Beethoven 5. It's like the one classical piece everyone can recognize to feel better about themselves culturally. Ugh. And I hate to say it, but the Nutcracker Suite is run into the ground around Christmas time, as well as Pachelbel's Canon. All of these are great, but...just no.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

OboeKnight said:


> the Nutcracker Suite is run into the ground around Christmas time


That's interesting. I played it for my 8th grade students around last Christmas and none of them could remember hearing it before.


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

science said:


> That's interesting. I played it for my 8th grade students around last Christmas and none of them could remember hearing it before.


Its mainly the Overture that is the problem. No one knows the rest except perhaps the Sugar Plum Fairy and Russian Dance. The Arabian Dance is my favorite  The Overture is in far too many commercials and Christmas movies lol


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

OboeKnight said:


> Its mainly the Overture that is the problem. No one knows the rest except perhaps the Sugar Plum Fairy and Russian Dance. The Arabian Dance is my favorite  The Overture is in far too many commercials and Christmas movies lol


Ah, I didn't think of that. I don't watch much television, and I guess most of my students don't either. That might be one of the reasons I don't experience as much over-exposure to these famous pieces of music.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

cmudave said:


> Beethoven's Opus 91 "Wellingtons Sieg" is not played that frequently, but is an example of a piece that I simply cannot stand.
> 
> Excerpt from the wikipedia entry on this piece:
> "The music simulates approaching opposing military regiments and contains extended passages depicting scenes of battle.
> ...


I like it and prefer it to the empty "1812". I have the legendary Antal Dorati/Mercury version .
It is done live often in a stately home's grounds near me with soldiers and cavalry plus cannon the full works---great stuff !!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

moody said:


> I like it and prefer it to the empty "1812". I have the legendary Antal Dorati/Mercury version .
> It is done live often in a stately home's grounds near me with soldiers and cavalry plus cannon the full works---great stuff !!


Indeed. And I don't recall that Beethoven thought it was "crap." But it's too bad that he didn't use La Marseillaise for the French side instead of "The Bear Went Over the Mountain." Political considerations at the time, it seems...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Your forgetting Leo Tolstoy's criticism - "Is such music needed by anyone? I must tell you how I dislike it all. *Beethoven* is nonsense, Pushkin and Lermontov also"


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes, but why should we listen to a man who couldn't appreciate Shakespeare & thought it was holier not to wash?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Your forgetting Leo Tolstoy's criticism - "Is such music needed by anyone? I must tell you how I dislike it all. *Beethoven* is nonsense, Pushkin and Lermontov also"


How many times do you intsnd to regale us with this jewel of information?
I'm just making a note and pinning it up on my cork noard in the kitchen.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Now that I've sawed my way on to Suzuki III's 'Humoresque' by Dvorak, I have a new groanworthy piece. Oh how I hate people laughing at their own jokes. More than ever, I see The Importance of Being Earnest...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

moody said:


> How many times do you intsnd to regale us with this jewel of information?
> I'm just making a note and pinning it up on my cork noard in the kitchen.


I have place mats if you want some


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> Now that I've sawed my way on to Suzuki III's 'Humoresque' by Dvorak, I have a new groanworthy piece. Oh how I hate people laughing at their own jokes. More than ever, I see The Importance of Being Earnest...


Oh Oscar Wilde....how hilarious you are.


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## userfume (Nov 21, 2012)

If anyone's tried to read Anna Karenina, it's very overrated and dull


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## cmudave (Feb 19, 2013)

moody said:


> I like it and prefer it to the empty "1812". I have the legendary Antal Dorati/Mercury version .
> It is done live often in a stately home's grounds near me with soldiers and cavalry plus cannon the full works---great stuff !!


Wow. Although I dislike the piece on its own, I would be interested to experience such a performance.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

userfume said:


> If anyone's tried to read Anna Karenina, it's very overrated and dull


I enjoyed the movie.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

userfume said:


> If anyone's tried to read Anna Karenina, it's very overrated and dull


Wow, not just overrated, but _very_ overrated!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

userfume said:


> If anyone's tried to read Anna Karenina, it's very overrated and dull


I've tried twice & always get stuck on the bit where Levin decides to work in the fields - never even got on to Anna's doings. I did enjoy 'War & Peace'. Just for interest, my grandfather knew a man who was wounded in WWI & lost the will to live, but the doctor in the field hospital told him that he couldn't die without reading the world's greatest novel & because 'War & Peace' is so long, he'd recovered by the time he finished - though it was a risk. It might have finished him off...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ Your forgetting Leo Tolstoy's criticism - "Is such music needed by anyone? I must tell you how I dislike it all. *Beethoven* is nonsense, Pushkin and Lermontov also"


I lost my respect of Tolstoy after I had read his similar opinions on Wagner. I can't find the exact quote anywhere in English, unfortunately.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

In all honestly I don't find any Classical works groanworthy. 

That said, 90% of the music written after 1911 (Mahler's Death), with the exception of Richard Strauss and a few others don't make me groan so much as either hit the mute button or stand up and walk out of the room.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

90% of the music written after 1911 (Mahler's Death), with the exception of Richard Strauss and a few others don't make me groan so much as either hit the mute button or stand up and walk out of the room.[/QUOTE]

Same thing, different gravy, as my husband likes to say. 'Groanworthy' is just shorthand for, 'Oh no ... not that!' or 'Not that again...!)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Anyway, it's so interesting to hear people's opinions - posters who love what I hate & vice versa.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Ingenue said:


> Same thing, different gravy, as my husband likes to say. 'Groanworthy' is just shorthand for, 'Oh no ... not that!' or 'Not that again...!)


I guess I was thinking Groanworthy in more of a "tired of hearing capacity" versus things I just don't like. I never get tired of hearing the "War Horses" that most people find Groanworthy.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

cmudave said:


> Wow. Although I dislike the piece on its own, I would be interested to experience such a performance.


It's a knockout and you take along a picnic,champagne etc. and it's all great stuff listening to the usual suspects.
The only problem is the notorious British weather.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I have place mats if you want some


Post them off then.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ OK will do - what colour would you like.....


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> ^ OK will do - what colour would you like.....
> 
> View attachment 13546


No doubt you have plenty of pink ones,I'll take those.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Indeed. And I don't recall that Beethoven thought it was "crap." But it's too bad that he didn't use La Marseillaise for the French side instead of "The Bear Went Over the Mountain." Political considerations at the time, it seems...


To Beethoven this might have seemed a good idea at the time.
This because the thing is actually "Marlborough s'en va-t-en guerre". "Marlborough has left for the war".
This was a bulesque lament on the death of the Duke of Marlborough at the Battle of Malplaquet---that turned out to be a false alarm.
The tune is that used for "For he's a jolly good fellow" and the the bear thing that I knew nothing of.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

moody said:


> No doubt you have plenty of pink ones,I'll take those.


My favorite colour- here you go Enjoy!


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