# American Symphonies Without Excessive Dissonance



## american music (Mar 18, 2014)

Is there an American composer who writes symphonies with melodic themes? A certain amount of dissonance can provide drama. But drama and tension can also be provided by diminished 7th chords that could be left unresolved. I recently came across an interesting work that has pleasant themes on youtube. I am not sure if it is new or not. Has anyone else heard it: what do you think?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

None of them have excessive dissonance!

Ok, that's my opinion and you might differ.

But anyway, I know what you mean, and there's lots out there for you. You might start here:










Here:










Or here:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

But I should add, please be fair to Ives. I don't know if you had him in mind when you thought of "too much dissonance," but his music is _really_ interesting. Maybe some of it's not good to use as sonic wallpaper while you're doing your taxes, but for listening to and thinking "what is going on in what I'm hearing," it's phenomenal.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I apologize in advance, but the work you posted sounds like a very simple and not well-done or interesting attempt at a symphony by a very young and perhaps self-taught composer. The horrid rubbery midi samples do not help in getting whatever paper-thin musical ideas they were trying to get across, but rather detract, and after maybe five seconds it was more than disappointing, as well as near completely annoying to have this held up as anything worth taking time with, that I turned it off, unwilling to spend more good time upon time already badly spent.

There is a ton of like kind on Youtube, almost all by people with little or no training, most of who are very young, in their tweens to mid-teens, and much of it sounds near as much the same just as many children's drawings tend to look very much alike.

There are some now-deceased American composers who were all pretty terrific symphonists:
Roy Harris
Walter Piston
Vincent Persichetti
Peter Mennin
William Schumann

Have a look and listen to some of their scores, and then, I'd suggest you "send that information along to this young composer whose works you have discovered," (ahem  so they may better study how to do it, and do it well.

The work as it now stands sounds interchangeable with hundreds of other works by near raw young beginners.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Aaron Copland
Ives No.1 is very melodic.
Schuman No.4 is a another good one.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Plenty to choose from.*

Although he is primarily a band composer, David Maslanka is a living composer who has composed nine symphonies that are very tonal. Most of them have been recorded.

Also check out the following thread: http://www.talkclassical.com/8001-american-symphonies.html


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

I'd also suggest trying some of the symphonies of Alan Hovhaness. He wrote a ton of symphonies, and though he can be a tad 'samey', most of his music is really beautiful and at times mystical. Here's an example:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Philip Glass yet? His symphonies are practically New Age music.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Although not a symphony as such, but certainly a symphonic piece in separate movements (in this case 5), how about Ferde Grofe's "Grand Canyon Suite"? Purists can get a bit sniffy about this work, but I think it's great: optimistic, tuneful and very American.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

You know who we should've mentioned?

Hovhaness. Probably half of the American symphonies that have been recorded were written by him, and none of them would be accused of being "excessively dissonant."


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I suppose you're talking about Americans from the last half of the 20th Century forward. Before that, there were a ton of them, like Arthur Foote (very Brahmsiam), John Alden Carpenter, Edward MacDowell, William Grant Still, and George Gershwin. Of course, there's Scott Joplin also.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> You know who we should've mentioned?
> 
> Hovhaness. Probably half of the American symphonies that have been recorded were written by him, and none of them would be accused of being "excessively dissonant."


We did - and posted a symphony by him. See post #7


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Peter Mennin's symphonies are quite dissonant and not recommended by me for someone seeking the opposite.
William Schuman's music is moderately dissonant and more approachable. Try the 3rd and 4th symphonies.
Ive's Second Symphony is also recommended-very approachable.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

techniquest said:


> We did - and posted a symphony by him. See post #7


I'm sorry I missed that!

I don't watch youtube videos of music so I have a bad habit of skipping those posts. Still, I did look for a Hovhaness reference, but not hard enough. Good on you!


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## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

I would suggest Walter Piston's 6th Symphony. It is expressive, colorful and has a rousing "hoedown" finale that will put a tap in your step and a smile on your face.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Get the symphonies written by some of the members of the New England six. (Paine, Chadwick, Parker, McDowell, Foote and Beach.)

Example.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

science said:


> You know who we should've mentioned?
> 
> Hovhaness. Probably half of the American symphonies that have been recorded were written by him, and none of them would be accused of being "excessively dissonant."


Probably half of the American symphonies that have been _written_ were written by him... 

I only know a few, and here and there he does sometimes include quite harsh dissonance, but on the whole they are very easy on the ear and really pleasant listening.


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## american music (Mar 18, 2014)

Your views seem to reflect a vast knowledge of music. Therefore I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that the assessment of the intrinsic value of music, by an individual, is eventually purely subjective.

American Music


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Try some David Diamond; the Second String Quartet would be good. Lou Harrison is nice listening, and has a 'world' influence. Try the First Edition series of CDs, with the Louisville Orchestra.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

american music said:


> Your views seem to reflect a vast knowledge of music. Therefore I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that the assessment of the intrinsic value of music, by an individual, is eventually purely subjective.
> 
> American Music


This seems out of no where. Is this in reply to anyone in particular or what?


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## american music (Mar 18, 2014)

That is a good suggestion. Piston wrote a book on orchestration. I am sure that he employed, in his symphonies, the techniques that he presented in his book.


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Howard Hanson ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

american music said:


> Your views seem to reflect a vast knowledge of music. Therefore I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that the assessment of the intrinsic value of music, by an individual, is eventually purely subjective.
> 
> American Music


Of course, one man's recommendation can be considered fodder for another's circular file.
What may be wonderful music to me, may be considered dissonant garbage to someone else.
I love Schuman's 6th Symphony. I'm most likely in the minority on TC.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

brianvds said:


> Why hasn't anyone mentioned Philip Glass yet? His symphonies are practically New Age music.


Too consonant, LOL.


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## cjvinthechair (Aug 6, 2012)

If I may throw in some suggestions : Norman Dello Joio - Triumph of St. Joan
George Antheil - Symphony no. 4
Gardner Read - Symphony no. 4
Could put a case for other composers if people think that is appropriate ?!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

cjvinthechair said:


> If I may throw in some suggestions : Norman Dello Joio - Triumph of St. Joan
> George Antheil - Symphony no. 4
> Gardner Read - Symphony no. 4
> Could put a case for other composers if people think that is appropriate ?!


Well, it would help mightily if the OP could somehow clarify their notion of what is and isn't "too dissonant," since dissonance and a taste for or against is so completely subjective.

It would be a shame to take the time and make up a list of four or more pieces which then all get rejected as being 'too dissonant,' which is completely possible without knowing more precisely the OP's limits


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One man's dissonance is another man's consonance, especially on TC.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> One man's dissonance is another man's consonance, especially on TC.


That goes for the whole world outside TC as well!


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Paul Creston's symphonies are quite interesting and very approachable. I have this cd.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Outside the direct format of "symphony," you will find some very worthwhile symphonic works.

Arthur Berger:
Ideas of Order (1952)









Serenade Concertante





Within the format, I recommend...
Roy Harris ~ Symphony No. 11. 
partial, different recording




another recording, the complete symphony.


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

techniquest said:


> I'd also suggest trying some of the symphonies of Alan Hovhaness. He wrote a ton of symphonies, and though he can be a tad 'samey', most of his music is really beautiful and at times mystical. Here's an example:


I've never listened to Hovhaness before, but I love this!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> That goes for the whole world outside TC as well!


Yeah, like sports cars and speeding tickets.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Yeah, like sports cars and speeding tickets.


Like _red_ sports cars and speeding tickets.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have found one can get a speeding ticket in a white car too.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, I have a silver sports car and never got a speeding ticket.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Excessive dissonance is good for the soul.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

A most cerebral statement! Always a-head of the game.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

One could start a TC thread, 
"What is excessive dissonance?" 
or 
"How much dissonance is excessive?" 
and I think that thread would stay live for generations, as TC members will stay, go, and new ones arrive.

But I'm not gonna be the one to make such a silly and meaningless thread.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm........


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I would mention Ives' 3rd Symphony. It's a very unhurried American work, reflective and subtle, as though one is sitting at the porch and watching the world go by. David Diamond's 4th Symphony is also worth mentioning, as so Hanson's 4th.

Another work that comes to mind is Randall Thompson's 2nd Symphony. I swear I love the First a bit more, but the Second has some very nice touches in it. 

And then there is William Grant Still's Second Symphony, which is truly a beautiful, sublime work.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Before there was Joplin or Chadwick there was Gottschalk


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