# Electronic Composers



## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

I'm not sure whether this could be classified as 'Classical Music' but with the passing today of Maestro Vangelis, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the man and his compositions.

While I'm at it I'd appreciate any further thoughts on fellow electronic composers Jean Michel Jarre, and especially Giorgio Moroder's film works. Can't help falling in love with the Themes for Midnight Express or Scarface. A unique voice, as are they all. Thanks.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I used to love this stuff in the 80s before I discovered classical music. Now it bores me for the most part. It's interesting for a time and then it gets tiring pretty quickly. Nothing interesting happens musically. I haven't listened to it in years.

EDIT: just listened to Moroder's Chase again. My opinion expressed above still holds.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

When I was in college, electronic music was fairly new and seemed to be the future. Walter (now Wendy) Carlos led the way in popularity with Switched on Bach. But for those of us who wanted more, Morton Subotnik seemed to lead the way. I attended many seminars on the Moog and Buchla synths, read what material was available, and ultimately found it to be empty of music. It was all about the sounds and effects and devoid of human emotion. The fabulous electronics became mainstream, but more as a replacement for traditional instruments and the weird sci-fi effects are gone. I keep the theremin I built and it makes an interesting toy for Halloween, but that's about it. Vangelis and others of his ilk I never liked at all.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

I'm a huge EM fan, I was the reviewer for EM magazine for a decade, I have a couple thousand releases on hand. Vangelis was a pioneer, particularly with Blade Runner, which created a whole new sound universe (there have been several other composers who have sought to compose within this universe), but outside of BR his output was spotty at best, and sometimes downright cringe-inducing. Giorgio Moroder and Harold Faltermeyer and Mike Post and those guys made a lot of money using synthesizers in soundtracks, but they wouldn't win my vote for best EM.

Jarre had a lot of interesting music. My opinion of him has gone up and down over the years, depending on my mood and his latest release, but overall I'd say he straddled the gap between "serious" electronic music and pop music. I can listen to most of his stuff without throwing up.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Subutai said:


> I'm not sure whether this could be classified as 'Classical Music' but with the passing today of Maestro Vangelis, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the man and his compositions.
> 
> While I'm at it I'd appreciate any further thoughts on fellow electronic composers Jean Michel Jarre, and especially Giorgio Moroder's film works. Can't help falling in love with the Themes for Midnight Express or Scarface. A unique voice, as are they all. Thanks.


A hairy, unkempt mess, totally unworthy of serious consideration.

Comparing Vangelis to say titans of the Berlin School, such as Klaus Schulze, Harold Groskopf or Edgar Froese is like comparing Milli Vanilli to Mozart or Bach.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Comparing Vangelis to say titans of the Berlin School, such as Klaus Schulze, Harold Groskopf or Edgar Froese is like comparing Milli Vanilli to Mozart or Bach.


Which one is Milli in this comparison???


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## prlj (10 mo ago)

Ludwig Schon said:


> A hairy, unkempt mess


I thought you were referring to Beethoven...


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I have no thoughts on Vangelis, but recently got addicted to electronic music. You have to pay attention to the ladies! They have been pioneers  Pauline Oliveros, Eliane Radigue, Suzanne Ciani...








The Secret History of Women in Electronic Music Is Just Beginning to Be Told


Sisters with Transistors, a new documentary highlighting women pioneers in early electronic music, offers one portal into the past—hopefully with more to follow.




pitchfork.com


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> I have no thoughts on Vangelis, but recently got addicted to electronic music. You have to pay attention to the ladies! They have been pioneers  Pauline Oliveros, Eliane Radigue, Suzanne Ciani...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...and Constance Demby. She combined electronic music with her own unique acoustic instruments. Like the Space Bass and Whale Sail.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

progmatist said:


> ...and Constance Demby. She combined electronic music with her own unique acoustic instruments. Like the Space Bass and Whale Sail.


Constance Demby’s Novus Magnificat would make even John Tavener blanche in shame. She peddles the sort of new age, whale music trite that gives actual serious female composers within the ambient/electronic genre, such as Daphne Oram, Pauline Anna Strom and Beverley Glenn-Copeland, a bad name…


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

progmatist said:


> ...and Constance Demby.


And Delia Derbyshire, Bebe Barron, Laurie Spiegel, Hannah Shapiro, Kat Epple, Lauri Paisley, Deborah Martin....


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Ludwig Schon said:


> A hairy, unkempt mess, totally unworthy of serious consideration.
> 
> Comparing Vangelis to say titans of the Berlin School, such as Klaus Schulze, Harold Groskopf or Edgar Froese is like comparing Milli Vanilli to Mozart or Bach.


I never made any such assertion. But hey, la-di-da-di-da.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Subutai said:


> I'm not sure whether this could be classified as 'Classical Music' but with the passing today of Maestro Vangelis, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the man and his compositions.
> 
> While I'm at it I'd appreciate any further thoughts on fellow electronic composers Jean Michel Jarre, and especially Giorgio Moroder's film works. Can't help falling in love with the Themes for Midnight Express or Scarface. A unique voice, as are they all. Thanks.


The only Vangelis recording that still holds up for me, is Heaven and Hell. He got way too new age after that.

But Heaven and Hell falls more into the prog-rock genre, and its intensity and contrasts in mood, make it more interesting to me. 

Vangelis was originally recruited by Yes to replace Rick Wakeman when he left, but decided against it. 

Jarre had some moments, but not too exciting for me. His father, *Maurice Jarre *was more talented. He was one of the greatest film composers of all time. 

Moroder was pretty poor in my opinion.

The only electronic music that still has any appeal to me, is the "Berlin School" of the 70's. Klaus Schulze, Tangerine Dream, Manuel Gottsching, Ash Ra Tempel, Cluster, Neu!, Peter Bauman, Conrad Schnitzler, and more. 

But no, Vangelis, despite much of his music being influenced by classical music, is not classical music. There are forms of music much closer to classical music; avant-prog for example (Thinking Plague, Henry Cow, Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, etc) than Vangelis, that are still not classical music.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> When I was in college, electronic music was fairly new and seemed to be the future. Walter (now Wendy) Carlos led the way in popularity with Switched on Bach. But for those of us who wanted more, *Morton Subotnik* seemed to lead the way. I attended many seminars on the Moog and Buchla synths, read what material was available, and ultimately found it to be empty of music. It was all about the sounds and effects and devoid of human emotion. The fabulous electronics became mainstream, but more as a replacement for traditional instruments and the weird sci-fi effects are gone. I keep the theremin I built and it makes an interesting toy for Halloween, but that's about it. Vangelis and others of his ilk I never liked at all.


Back when, I found some of Subotnik's work quite expressive, especially _The Wild Bull_ — and my girlfriend's dog used to hate and bark at Tomita.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

EdwardBast said:


> Back when, I found some of Subotnik's work quite expressive, especially _The Wild Bull_ — and my girlfriend's dog used to hate and bark at Tomita.


The Wild Bull is wild, but check out The Key To Songs- probably my favorite of his.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Ludwig Schon said:


> A hairy, unkempt mess, totally unworthy of serious consideration.
> 
> Comparing Vangelis to say titans of the Berlin School, such as Klaus Schulze, Harold Groskopf or Edgar Froese is like comparing Milli Vanilli to Mozart or Bach.


I like both (specific albums/pieces by) Vangelis and by Klaus Schulze, Tangerine Dream etc. and I think your opinion is totally unworthy of serious consideration.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Anyway, I agree Vangelis did not write classical music.
For a largely self taught musician he was able to write some nice, moody and atmospheric electronic music. Good examples being Blade Runner, Antarctica, The Bounty, Soil Festivities. Sometimes his music was largely improvised which gave it an organic, spontaneous quality. He could also write simple, effective melodies that had mass appeal, which led to some big commercial success.
Most of all he used synthesizers and related electronics in an effective and expressive way.
Later he went for a more "orchestral sound" which I don't like quite as much as his earlier music.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Simon Moon said:


> Vangelis was originally recruited by Yes to replace Rick Wakeman when he left, but decided against it.


From what I've heard and read, the band opted for Patrick Moraz over Vangelis because he had more of a "rock star" look.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

There are so many great prog electronic composers, who have produced far greater works than the trash regurgitated by Steve Reich and Philip Glass: 

Franco Battiato, Roberto Cacciapaglia, Manuel Göttsching, Edgar Froese, Klaus Schulze, Michael Hoening, Robert Schroeder, etc…


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Reich is only barely an electronic composer (though influential on it with his work with the San Francisco Tape Music Center) and Glass generally wasn't.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

fbjim said:


> Reich is only barely an electronic composer (though influential on it with his work with the San Francisco Tape Music Center) and Glass generally wasn't.


Agreed. I just wanted to post my contempt for detritus they’ve produced since 1974…

I generally like the stuff (much of it electronic, funnily enough) before they jumped the minimalist shark


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

I like Reich before he went orchestral. I think his stuff works best in the percussion medium though 18 Musicians is one of my favorite works.

There's a great deal of Glass I admire but he made way too much music. Certainly paid his bills (especially when he was an in-demand film composer) but it means I have to sort out a lot of wheat from chaff.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

18 Musicians is certainly Reich’s greatest piece and I love the earliest tape stuff: “bruise blood to come out at show dem”. He just sold out for money.

Glass, similarly, wrote some excellent keyboard works early on and his work up to the fist two parts of Music in 12 Parts is very impressive. Again though, he sold out for money.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

while the op clearly mentions electronic composers and i also enjoyed tangerine dream and their colleagues, these are not classical composers. reich and glass hardly produced any electronic music. in my book i only list ligeti, stockhausen, koenig, kagel, berio, maderna, xenakis and oliveros as classical electronic composers. I would be grateful to hear from our members if they agree and if they can add suitable composers to this list.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

justekaia said:


> I would be grateful to hear from our members if they agree and if they can add suitable composers to this list.


Old-style "electro-acoustic music"

Tho this stuff is no more "classical" than modern synthesizer composers like David Helpling, Ron Jenkins, Greg Klamt or Deborah Martin.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

There's a bit of crossover between avant-garde stuff and early minimalism with early electronic music (Reich started with tape music, after all) but yeah it's separate genres since like the 70s


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> while the op clearly mentions electronic composers and i also enjoyed tangerine dream and their colleagues, these are not classical composers. reich and glass hardly produced any electronic music. in my book i only list ligeti, stockhausen, koenig, kagel, berio, maderna, xenakis and oliveros as classical electronic composers. I would be grateful to hear from our members if they agree and if they can add suitable composers to this list.


I would agree with all of the above. I think there is a fine line between composition and improvisation, especially when it comes to electronic works, as it is often not apparent to the audience, listener or even reader (depending on how it is scored), if individual electronic sounds are being produced manually or processed electronically.

While my preference is more for the hinterland of electro-acoustic, classical forms such as spectralism (Grisey, Murial, Levinas, Dufourt, et al.), I do enjoy individual pieces by more purely electronic composers, like Paul Lansky (Night Traffic, Ride), and musique concréte pieces by Luc Ferrari (Presque Rien) and Bernard Parmegiani (Die Natura Sonorum)…


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Wow, we don't hear much about Gérard Grisey. What'ya got? I have "Vortex Tempoum," Talea," "Prologue," "Anubis," "Nout," "Jour, Contre-jour" and "Les Espaces Acoustiques"...


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

NoCoPilot said:


> Wow, we don't hear much about Gérard Grisey. What'ya got? I have "Vortex Tempoum," Talea," and "Les Espaces Acoustiques"...


Great choices. Have all of them along with…
Le Temps…
Les Chants…
and Quatre Chants


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## Floeddie (8 mo ago)

I think John Carpenter makes effective EM tracks for some of his films.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I liked that song with Jon Anderson on vocals. Can't remember the name of the band - Jon and something, I think.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

justekaia said:


> in my book i only list ligeti, stockhausen, koenig, kagel, berio, maderna, xenakis and oliveros as classical electronic composers. I would be grateful to hear from our members if they agree and if they can add suitable composers to this list.


Your book may need another chapter. 

Pierre Schaeffer (founder of Groupe de Recherche de Musique Concrète), Pierre Henry, Luc Ferrari, Varèse, Otto Luening, Vladimir Ussachevsky, Tristram Cary, Arne Nordheim, Toshiro Mayuzumi [UbuWeb Sound - Early Japanese Tape Music (1953-1956)], Takemitsu, Gino Marinuzzi jr [(PDF) Gino Marinuzzi Jr: Electronics and Early Multimedia Mentality in Italy | Maurizio Corbella - Academia.edu], Henk Badings, Olli Kortegangas, etc.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I should mention my fellow countrymen Bülent Arel and İlhan Mimaroğlu. Former worked with Varèse and latter with Ussachevsky. Mimaroğlu in particular is quite good.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Prodromides said:


> Your book may need another chapter.
> 
> Pierre Schaeffer (founder of Groupe de Recherche de Musique Concrète), Pierre Henry, Luc Ferrari, Varèse, Otto Luening, Vladimir Ussachevsky, Tristram Cary, Arne Nordheim, Toshiro Mayuzumi [UbuWeb Sound - Early Japanese Tape Music (1953-1956)], Takemitsu, Gino Marinuzzi jr [(PDF) Gino Marinuzzi Jr: Electronics and Early Multimedia Mentality in Italy | Maurizio Corbella - Academia.edu], Henk Badings, Olli Kortegangas, etc.


i am grateful for your answer which corresponds to my request. my book is just a figure of speech of course and my endeavour is to identify purely electronic composers (with a significant body of works). luc ferrari is one of those and i have his major works. musique concrète is often termed as electro-acoustic music, so i have my doubts as to whether this is electronic music.i am familiar with varese's poème electronique but am not aware of other significant electronic works in his oeuvre. henk badings is a prolific composer with 15 symphonies and a lot of concertante pieces as well as some electro-acoustic works, but may have composed electronic pieces. i also believe the like of takemitsu have tried the medium but have not composed many works .i suspect the same is true for nordheim. i might be entirely wrong because i do not have access to the same sources as you.the italian school is another mystery to me.would you be so kind to share some of your knowledge.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Ludwig Schon said:


> I would agree with all of the above. I think there is a fine line between composition and improvisation, especially when it comes to electronic works, as it is often not apparent to the audience, listener or even reader (depending on how it is scored), if individual electronic sounds are being produced manually or processed electronically.
> 
> While my preference is more for the hinterland of electro-acoustic, classical forms such as spectralism (Grisey, Murial, Levinas, Dufourt, et al.), I do enjoy individual pieces by more purely electronic composers, like Paul Lansky (Night Traffic, Ride), and musique concréte pieces by Luc Ferrari (Presque Rien) and Bernard Parmegiani (Die Natura Sonorum)…


Two Italian musicians who interest me immensely and existed in that gnarly hinterland between electronic composition and prog/industrial music are Franco Battiato and Maurizio Bianchi. Franco sold his sold to the Devil (Manna), while Maurizio because a Jehovah’s Witness and disappeared off the grid. Check out these absolutely stone cold classics from 1977 & 1983:


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Highwayman said:


> I should mention my fellow countrymen Bülent Arel and İlhan Mimaroğlu. Former worked with Varèse and latter with Ussachevsky. Mimaroğlu in particular is quite good.


thks for sharing this fascinating music


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

justekaia said:


> i suspect the same is true for nordheim.


I'd estimate around one-third of Arne Nordheim's output is for magnetic tapes & electronic music (a significant portion of his discography is such).


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

My understanding is that Tristram Cary was involved (in 1967) with the earliest usage of sequencers in music.
The late '60s had the 'moog' and by the early '70s there were ARP synthesizers.
Prior to '67, electronic music was typically magnetic tape splicing and mechanically altered recorded sounds.
From the earliest mag tapes by Mayuzumi ('53) and Varèse ('54) through the late '60s, electronic music was not synthesizers, per se, but permutations of electronically altered acoustic recorded sounds and/or electronic musical instruments like Ondes Martenot, Theremin, Novachord, SoloVox, ... Jack Cookerly's electric Organ or electric violin, etc.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

justekaia said:


> xenakis


Regarding IX's _Kraanerg_, this utilizes quadrophonic/4-channel tape which alters the sounds of the acoustic instruments. Xenakis subsequently wrote computer music later in his life, but pre-synthesizer works (I think) shouldn't be summarily excluded from under the umbrella of electronic music just because they contain acoustic elements or are not deemed 100% synthetic by current-day standards. When evaluating music written before we were born, an understanding of whichever technology was available during any given decade is beneficial for assessing its merits.

Varèse was involved with many projects, but few of them witnessed actual completion. Varèse may have been toiling further upon ultimately unrealized electronic music, but his death in 1965 precluded any potential opus for non-acoustic electronics.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Prodromides said:


> Regarding IX's _Kraanerg_, this utilizes quadrophonic/4-channel tape which alters the sounds of the acoustic instruments. Xenakis subsequently wrote computer music later in his life, but pre-synthesizer works (I think) shouldn't be summarily excluded from under the umbrella of electronic music just because they contain acoustic elements or are not deemed 100% synthetic by current-day standards. When evaluating music written before we were born, an understanding of whichever technology was available during any given decade is beneficial for assessing its merits.
> 
> Varèse was involved with many projects, but few of them witnessed actual completion. Varèse may have been toiling further upon ultimately unrealized electronic music, but his death in 1965 precluded any potential opus for non-acoustic electronics.


thks for these precious comments concerning xenakis. kraanerg mixes tape (altering acoustic music, like you mention and orchestral music) and is therefore a hybrid work. james harley's excellent book on xenakis describes the development of the piece. i think persepolis qualifies more as an electronic piece. regarding varese he was a genius but his projects did not come to fruition because he did not have the necessary technology available during his lifetime. i listened to the electronic works by nordheim in my collection and am not impressed by his early tape works, but on the other hand like Warszawa and Poly-Poly from the late sixties.


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