# The Undisputed Greatest



## juliante

Two chamber music heavyweight champions at the peak of their powers. Whose gonna take the title though? Schubert gets one more cos he had about 25 years less to go about it and you've go to have the quintet in there...  For sheer listening pleasure, what's your choice?


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## Sonata

Johannes Brahms for me!


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## Pugg

Mozart would be my choice.


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## Art Rock

"The Undisputed Greatest"

No such thing exists.

My favourite chamber music piece is Schuberts String quintet.
My favourite chamber music composer is Brahms.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Edgard *Varèse say no more..............*


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## Friendlyneighbourhood

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Edgard *Varèse say no more..............*


Apart from "Americas" and "Arcana", he pretty much WAS a chamber composer aye Eddie mate?


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## Friendlyneighbourhood

Bach 
Brahms 
Bartok
Webern 
Varese 
Cage 
Are all ones that instantly spring to mind!


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## Guest

juliante said:


> Two chamber music heavyweight champions at the peak of their powers. Whose gonna take the title though? Schubert gets one more cos he had about 25 years less to go about it and you've go to have the quintet in there...  For sheer listening pleasure, what's your choice?


I don't know - you haven't offered a choice. Or are we supposed to pick the two that others are to choose from?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Friendlyneighbourhood said:


> Apart from "Americas" and "Arcana", he pretty much WAS a chamber composer aye Eddie mate?


It was enough for me !


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## starthrower

Debussy wasn't too shabby. And if Ravel wrote nothing else but his string quartet, he'd still be a legend! I also really like Alexandre Tansman, Hindemith, and William Alwyn. And Prokofiev's cello sonata is a marvel.


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## Genoveva

I am not clear who we're supposed to choose between. My top favourites are Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, and Brahms. They're all fantastic but each offers something unique and special. I've had different opinions of each at various times in the past, but as I've become more and familiar with each of them I really couldn't set out a ranking now.


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## Brahmsian Colors

No greatest for me, only favorites: Brahms, Dvorak, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Borodin, Debussy, Ravel.


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## jimsumner

For chamber music?

For me, the discussion starts at second place, behind Beethoven.

And Shostakovich probably takes second place.

For me.


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## Quartetfore

Beethoven for me, he composed masterworks in every area. Second place, as we say in NYC-- you pays your money and takes your choice.
QF


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## Judith

Sonata said:


> Johannes Brahms for me!


I will join you Sonata on this one


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## hpowders

Different composers for different segments:

Piano Trios: Brahms and Mendelssohn

String Quartets: Beethoven and Bartok

String Quintets: Mozart

String Sextets: Brahms

Violin and Piano Sonatas: Brahms and Beethoven

No one composer is supreme at everything in chamber music.


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> No greatest for me, only favorites: Brahms, Dvorak, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Borodin, Debussy, Ravel.


Seems a very nice choice.


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## Bettina

hpowders said:


> Different composers for different segments:
> 
> Piano Trios: Brahms and Mendelssohn
> 
> String Quartets: Beethoven and Bartok
> 
> String Quintets: Mozart
> 
> String Sextets: Brahms
> 
> Violin and Piano Sonatas: Brahms and Beethoven
> 
> No one composer is supreme at everything in chamber music.


Good list! Also--Septet: Beethoven and Octet: Mendelssohn. Both of those works are well worth checking out, if you haven't already.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Good list! Also--Septet: Beethoven and Octet: Mendelssohn. Both of those works are well worth checking out, if you haven't already.


Thanks. Yes. I know them!


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## Ralphus

Brahms: esp. Clarinet Quintet, 1st Violin Sonata, 2nd Cello Sonata, 1st Piano Trio, both Clarinet Sonatas, Piano Quintet, 1st Piano Quartet, and 2nd String Quintet--that's probably half of what he wrote, so I ain't lying 

Beethoven too though. Debussy Cello Sonata. Ravel Quartet. Dvorak 2nd Piano Quintet. Haydn String Quartet op.20/5...so much beautiful chamber music!


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## TurnaboutVox

I'd have to choose between the 30 or so composers whose work forms the core of my chamber music collection - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelsson, Dvorak, Faure, Zemlinsky, Ives, Bax, Bridge, Debussy, Schoenberg, Webern, Nielsen, Hindemith, Bartok, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Britten, Poulenc, Bacewitz, Schnittke, Ligeti, Kurtag, Ferneyhough, Gubaidulina, Henze and Rihm. The two best amongst those? An impossible choice.


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## Pugg

TurnaboutVox said:


> I'd have to choose between the 30 or so composers whose work forms the core of my chamber music collection - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelsson, Dvorak, Faure, Zemlinsky, Ives, Bax, Bridge, Debussy, Schoenberg, Webern, Nielsen, Hindemith, Bartok, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Britten, Poulenc, Bacewitz, Schnittke, Ligeti, Kurtag, Ferneyhough, Gubaidulina, Henze and Rihm. The two best amongst those? An impossible choice.


Not even when we put a gun to your head. ( so the speak of-course) .


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## juliante

This was a failed attempt to do a poll re beethoven and schuberts late chamber works, just to say. Glad it has resulted in a few nice chats though anyway!


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## DavidA

Why must we do this Muhammed Ali thing and insist on the greatest? I've got stacks of chamber music on my shelves and it is all to be enjoyed.


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## silentio

hpowders said:


> Different composers for different segments:
> 
> Piano Trios: Brahms and Mendelssohn
> 
> String Quartets: Beethoven and Bartok
> 
> String Quintets: Mozart
> 
> String Sextets: Brahms
> 
> Violin and Piano Sonatas: Brahms and Beethoven
> 
> No one composer is supreme at everything in chamber music.


I have similar taste! Also, I would like to add to hpowders' choices:

Baroque's Trio sonata: Bach and Telemann

Piano Quartet: Mozart and Brahms

Chamber music with Woodwinds: This will be again the territory of Mozart and Brahms

Sonata for Lower String and piano: Brahms! (2 wonderful cello sonatas + the two clarinet sonatas op.120 often played by viola)

"Lighthearted" chamber music (e.g. Divertimento): I thought it was "shallow" music, until I was charmed by the subtleties in Mozart's K.334 and K.563.

Overall, Mozart for me!


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## Border Collie

Mozart surely takes it on quantity issues alone, ignoring the superb nature of his works. I would have to give a mention to Haydn for his string quartets and the trios, and of course the sonatas. Love Bach's solo piano work too much to not mention him. Hard not to mention Beethoven in such a thread, and I do enjoy the Schumann piano music. Hard to leave out Chopin, also.

I think we need a definition of "greatest", to make any sense at all. Substitute "favourite" and you are in a better place.


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## hpowders

silentio said:


> I have similar taste! Also, I would like to add to hpowders' choices:
> 
> Baroque's Trio sonata: Bach and Telemann
> 
> Piano Quartet: Mozart and Brahms
> 
> Chamber music with Woodwinds: This will be again the territory of Mozart and Brahms
> 
> Sonata for Lower String and piano: Brahms! (2 wonderful cello sonatas + the two clarinet sonatas op.120 often played by viola)
> 
> "Lighthearted" chamber music (e.g. Divertimento): I thought it was "shallow" music, until I was charmed by the subtleties in Mozart's K.334 and K.563.
> 
> Overall, Mozart for me!


Glad you are in harmony with my choices! I also love the 2 clarinet sonatas by Brahms that you've chosen!


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## Bettina

As usual, I'll take "greatest" to mean "favorite." That said, here are my five favorite chamber music composers and my favorite works by each of them:

1. Beethoven (String Quartet No. 14, Archduke Trio, Ghost Trio, String Quartet No. 15, Kreutzer Sonata)

2. Brahms (Piano Trio No. 3, Sonata for Cello and Piano No. 1, String Sextet No. 1)

3.Debussy (String Quartet, Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Piano Trio)

4. Mozart (Violin Sonata K. 304, String Quartet K. 465, String Quintet K. 516)

5. Ravel (Violin Sonata No. 2, Piano Trio, String Quartet in F, Sonata for Violin and Cello)


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> As usual, I'll take "greatest" to mean "favorite." That said, here are my five favorite chamber music composers and my favorite works by each of them:
> 
> 1. Beethoven (String Quartet No. 14, Archduke Trio, Ghost Trio, String Quartet No. 15, Kreutzer Sonata)
> 
> 2. Brahms (Piano Trio No. 3, Sonata for Cello and Piano No. 1, String Sextet No. 1)
> 
> 3.Debussy (String Quartet, Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Piano Trio)
> 
> 4. Mozart (Violin Sonata K. 304, String Quartet K. 465, String Quintet K. 516)
> 
> 5. Ravel (Violin Sonata No. 2, Piano Trio, String Quartet in F, Sonata for Violin and Cello)


I enjoy many of these pieces too with special mention going to the Brahms String Sextet No. 1, Mozart's String Quintet, K. 516, Debussy's Violin Sonata and Ravel's String Quartet.

Gentlemen! Stand up and take a bow! Hey watch it!! I didn't say bow and arrow! That's what you get from four composers with ESL difficulties.


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## Pugg

Border Collie said:


> Mozart surely takes it on quantity issues alone, ignoring the superb nature of his works. I would have to give a mention to Haydn for his string quartets and the trios, and of course the sonatas. Love Bach's solo piano work too much to not mention him. Hard not to mention Beethoven in such a thread, and I do enjoy the Schumann piano music. Hard to leave out Chopin, also.
> 
> I think we need a definition of "greatest", to make any sense at all. Substitute "favourite" and you are in a better place.


Very wise words spoken.


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## DavidA

Obviously there is no such thing as the undisputed greatest as we all have our favourites. I must confess the great Schubert Quintet is right up there for me.


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## hpowders

I would choose Brahms as the greatest chamber music composer.

So much excellence among the two string sextets, two string quintets, three piano trios, three piano quartets, clarinet quintet, clarinet trio and two clarinet sonatas and piano quintet.


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## Vaneyes

Sheer listening pleasure, *Haydn.* And after all, he did show the way.


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## hpowders

^^^ Unfortunately his chamber music is Haydn behind all those first class Brahms chamber music CDs.


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## Anselm

Can't choose between the following:

- William Lawes (d. 1645), Setts for 5 and 6 viols. A masterclass in how to get a huge range of expression from one of the most homogeneous of ensembles. Each piece has its own unique character, if you can work your way into a pre-Mozart mindset. Some are funny, some wacky, some really, really deep. Complete on YouTube.

- Jean-Fery Rebel's _Book of 12 sonatas in 2 or 3 parts_ (1712) - especially the profoundly moving "Tombeau de M. de Lully" (who was Rebel's teacher). There's an excellent recording by Musica Antiqua Köln.

- Jean-Philippe Rameau's _Pièces de clavecin en concerts_ (1741). Five three-movement sonatas (fast-slow-fast). Delicious balance of vivacity, shifts of colour and lyricism. Harpsichord is the heart of the ensemble, which includes bass viol, violin and flute. The favourite seems to be No.5 ("Le Forqueray"). Lots of good recordings available.

- And my favourite, the five books (1689-1725) of music for one, two and three viols by Marin Marais, "the emperor of the viol", especially Book 4, which consists of 109 pieces. It's worth listening to the lot, although if you haven't got the requisite couple of hours, try the 6th suite in E minor and then the 33-piece Suite d'un Goût Etranger that immediately follows it. For most of the first four books up to this point, Marais has been writing for enthusiasts and amateurs of the viol. With the Suite d'un Goût Etranger he suddenly cuts loose: even the hitherto conventional dance movements like allemands and gavottes are chock full of jaw-dropping virtuosity, always at the service of musical expression. But it's the character pieces that are the real departure. Le Labyrinthe is breathtakingly bizarre, but for sheer pathos I can't get past the last piece, Le Badinage. Not virtuostic (well, not mainly), it's a French passacaglia - i.e. a ritornello piece, with the refrain repeated between different couplets. Each return to the refrain is somehow more intense, more quietly moving than the last. Jordi Savall's your man for a recording.

And how do I compare all of these to Schubert's wonderful C major quintet, or Brahms' Clarinet Quintet, my favourite post-1750 pieces of chamber music? God only knows. They're no less great - but no more, either! Each age has its giants.


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## Guest

Let me list my current favorites this way:
Solo chamber work (excluding piano): Bach Suites for Cello
Duo: Beethoven “Kreutzer” Sonata for Violin and Piano
Trio: Mozart K498 “Kegelstaat” Trio for Clarinet, Viola and Piano
Quartet: Mozart K493 for Piano, Violin, Viola and Cello
Quintet: Schubert “Trout” for Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass
Sextet: Tchaikovsky “Souvenir de Florence” for Two Violins, Two Violas, and Two Cellos
Septet: Hummel Piano Septet No. 1, Op. 74, for Piano, Flute, Oboe, Horn, Viola, Cello and Bass
Octet: Schubert Octet for Clarinet, Bassoon, Horn, Two Violins, Viola, Cello and Bass


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## Pat Fairlea

Ravel for musical quality and depth; Arnold for sheer pleasure. Tippett' s string quartets deserve a better press, too.


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## LP collector

TurnaboutVox said:


> I'd have to choose between the 30 or so composers whose work forms the core of my chamber music collection - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelsson, Dvorak, Faure, Zemlinsky, Ives, Bax, Bridge, Debussy, Schoenberg, Webern, Nielsen, Hindemith, Bartok, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Britten, Poulenc, Bacewitz, Schnittke, Ligeti, Kurtag, Ferneyhough, Gubaidulina, Henze and Rihm. The two best amongst those? An impossible choice.


A most impressive list although I must confess on not knowing the chamber works of Zemlinsky, Ives and the last four composers. Beside the more well known, a special mention for the Faure piano trio, Britten's first quartet and all seven of Bacewicz. Think I would exchange Nielsen for Janacek though.


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## ahinton

LP collector said:


> A most impressive list although I must confess on not knowing the chamber works of Zemlinsky, Ives and the last four composers. Beside the more well known, a special mention for the Faure piano trio, Britten's first quartet and all seven of Bacewicz. Think I would exchange Nielsen for Janacek though.


Bacewicz deserves all the "special mentions" that she can get; it's a matter of astonishment to me that her work is so under-represented (at least until relatively recently).


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## ahinton

Pat Fairlea said:


> Tippett' s string quartets deserve a better press, too.


They do indeed!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Vaneyes said:


> Sheer listening pleasure, *Haydn.*


How right you are; most of all with those marvelous Piano Trios as played by the Beaux Arts Trio.


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> How right you are; most of all with those marvelous Piano Trios as played by the Beaux Arts Trio.


Should be in every one's collection.


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## hpowders

The greatest chamber music composer for me was Brahms. Beethoven, second. Mozart, third, Haydn, 4th.

Schubert whom I find rhythmically tedious, wouldn't make any list I would compose of favorite chamber music composers.


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## Pugg

ahinton said:


> Bacewicz deserves all the "special mentions" that she can get; it's a matter of astonishment to me that her work is so under-represented (at least until relatively recently).


I bought the Chandos CD recently, performed by Silesian Quartet, very good.


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## MarkW

If the greatest were truy undisputed, no discussion would be possible


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## PlaySalieri

Mozart Schubert Brahms

that's right - no Beethoven!


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## MadMusicist

Impossible to say only one! I do have a permanent soft spot for Mendelssohn and Schumann. However, Beethoven's late quartets are on a whole new dimension.


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## PeterF

Genoveva said:


> I am not clear who we're supposed to choose between. My top favourites are Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, and Brahms. They're all fantastic but each offers something unique and special. I've had different opinions of each at various times in the past, but as I've become more and familiar with each of them I really couldn't set out a ranking now.


This above comment mirrors my opinion. Each of those mentioned have contributed many truly outstanding pieces of chamber music. I am unable to select just one as my clear favorite. Thankfully I have a large selection of recordings by each of them.


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## PeterF

hpowders said:


> Different composers for different segments:
> 
> Piano Trios: Brahms and Mendelssohn
> 
> String Quartets: Beethoven and Bartok
> 
> String Quintets: Mozart
> 
> String Sextets: Brahms
> 
> Violin and Piano Sonatas: Brahms and Beethoven
> 
> No one composer is supreme at everything in chamber music.


I like the idea of beaking the question up into different types of chamber music groups. My list would be similar , but not identical.
More to follow.


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## Bettina

Here's a list of my favorite chamber works. I've limited myself to one work per genre, in an attempt to keep things somewhat concise:

Beethoven, Kreutzer Sonata for Violin and Piano, Op. 47

Debussy, Sonata for Cello and Piano

Beethoven, String Quartet Op. 131

Beethoven, Archduke Trio, Op. 97

Dvorak, Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 87

Schubert, Trout Quintet

Mozart, String Quintet No. 3 in C Major, K. 515

Poulenc, Sonata for Clarinet and Piano

Ravel, Sonata for Violin and Cello


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Beethoven, if I had to choose just one. His string quartets alone do it for me and then you add a couple of fantastic violin sonatas, cellos sonatas and a charming early septet.


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## Bettina

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Beethoven, if I had to choose just one. His string quartets alone do it for me and then you add a couple of fantastic violin sonatas, cellos sonatas and a charming early septet.


Yes! And his piano trios too.


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## Pat Fairlea

And, further to my previous contribution to this thread, the chamber music of Arnold Bax is greatly under-estimated.


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## PeterF

PeterF said:


> I like the idea of beaking the question up into different types of chamber music groups. My list would be similar , but not identical.
> More to follow.


My listing would look like this:
Violin Sonatas - Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart
Piano Trios - Brahms, Schubert, and Beethoven
String Quartets - Haydn, Beethoven, and Mozart
Piano Quartets - Mozart, Schumann, Brahms and Dvorak
String Quintets - Schubert, Mozart and Brahms
Piano Quintets - Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak, Schubert and Mozart
Clarinet Quintets - Mozart and Brahms
String Quintets - Schubert, Mozart, Brahms and Mendelssohn
String Sextets - Brahms 
Solo Piano - Beethoven, Chopin, Schubert, Mozart, Haydn


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## Haydn man

Haydn is not too shoddy in the chamber music department but for me Beethoven Brahms and Schubert are right at the pinnacle


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## hpowders

Haydn man said:


> Haydn is not too shoddy in the chamber music department but for me Beethoven Brahms and Schubert are right at the pinnacle


Beethoven and Brahms, yes!


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## Pugg

Haydn man said:


> Haydn is not too shoddy in the chamber music department but for me Beethoven Brahms and Schubert are right at the pinnacle


The Dvorak quartets are in the same league.


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## Quartetfore

Three great String Quartets, and three more that are top flight-Op.34,51 and 61. Two great Piano Trios. A great Piano Quintet and Piano Quartet put Dvorak at the pinnacle of the genre.


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## hpowders

Sonata said:


> Johannes Brahms for me!


I agree with that!!!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Braaaaaaaahmz! :clap:   :cheers:


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## pjang23

As far as piano chamber music goes, it's no contest.






16 masterpieces of piano chamber music, with every single work in the performing repertoire. Cannot think of anyone else who approached that quantity of quality and quality of quantity in piano chamber music.

That said, Fauré is not too shabby in that arena too, with Piano Quintet No.1 the most outstanding work, and fantastic piano quartets, quintets, a great piano trio, and some cello and violin sonatas.


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## tdc

I wouldn't want to be without any of Brahms chamber music, I recently listened to the String Quintets and was completely blown away.

So yes, I pick Brahms. I prefer Brahms to any composer in this area.


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## Hurbi

Good picks all around. Unfortunately 'chamber music' is too broad, and it's the greatest provider of music to date which makes it very hard to choose because every chamber piece is enjoyable by SOMEONE. And almost every composer wrote some of each kind of piece.

For me it would go: 

Piano Trios- Joachim Raff, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Faure, Fuchs

String Quartets- Beethoven, Karl Weigl, Joachim Raff, Borodin, Schubert (honorable mentions: Fuchs, cherubini, verdi)

Piano Quartets and quintets- Brahms, Dvorak, Noskowski, Fuchs (honorable mentions: dohnanyi, schubert, cyril scott, Raff )

Piano sonatas- Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert

Octet, sextet: Joachim Raff, Schubert, Brahms

Solo romantic works- Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Schumann

Cello sonata- Fuchs, Saint saens, Beethoven, Brahms

String Quintet- Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Boccherini, Mendelssohn, Glazunov

Violin sonata- Beethoven, Faure, Schumann, Profokiev

That's what I came up with so far. I'm sure I'll return to this often to remind myself of great pieces haha.


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## AfterHours

Probably Beethoven overall (certainly for String Quartets)

My top 10 Chamber Works (no distinction between "greatest" and "favorite" for me, one and the same), and I'm not including "solo instrument" works like some posters:

String Quartet No. 15 in A Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1825) 
String Quartet No. 14 in C-sharp Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1826) 
String Quintet in C Major - Franz Schubert (1828) 
Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta - Bela Bartok (1936) 
Piano Quintet in G Minor - Dmitri Shostakovich (1940) 
String Quartet No. 14 in D minor "Death and the Maiden" - Franz Schubert (1824) 
Piano Trio No. 7 in B-flat Major "Archduke" - Ludwig van Beethoven (1811) 
String Quartet No. 13 in B-flat Major (Original Composition with Grosse Fugue) - Ludwig van Beethoven (1825) 
Quartet for the End of Time - Olivier Messiaen (1941) 
Piano Quintet in A Major "Trout" - Franz Schubert (1819) 

Barely missing that "impossible" cut could be:

Piano Quintet in F minor - Johannes Brahms (1864) 
Piano Quintet No. 2 in A major - Antonin Dvorak (1887) 
String Quartet No. 8 in C Minor - Dmitri Shostakovich (1960) 
Trio for Violin, Horn and Piano - Gyorgy Ligeti (1982) 
Piano Trio No. 2 in E minor - Dmitri Shostakovich (1944) 
String Quartet No. 4 - Bela Bartok (1928) 
Octet for Strings in E flat major - Felix Mendelssohn 
String Quartet No. 12 in E flat major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1825) 
String Trio - Alfred Schnittke (1985) 
Violin Sonata No. 2 in A Major - Johannes Brahms (1886)


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## Bettina

I think I've already responded to this thread several times, with several different types of lists. But I'm in the mood to post here again, so now I'm going to list my 10 favorite chamber works.

1. Beethoven: String Quartet No. 14
2. Beethoven: String Quartet No. 15
3. Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio in A Minor
4. Beethoven: Archduke Trio
5. Brahms: Piano Trio No. 3
6. Beethoven: Ghost Trio
7. Debussy: String Quartet
8. Ravel: Piano Trio
9. Beethoven: String Quartet No. 13
10.Mozart: String Quintet No. 3


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