# Doing the Impossible



## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

"Talking about music is like dancing about 
architecture", the old (and endlessly re-attributed) adage goes.

But this forum has danced, and danced wonderfully, to architecture. 

Is talking about music is impossible how did we do it for so long? 

How is it possible that we talking about music so well when it refers to nothing in the world? 

For example, Wittgenstein, in a remark about aesthetics, said that when we talk about a symphony, say say "that symphony is tremendous" but if we get closer and look at the specific phrases we go "that phrase is wrong" or "that phrase is right", etc, but we don't say "that symphony is right". 

Perhaps we've failed; often times we spend more time talking about the impossibility of talking about music than talking about music itself.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I get a lot more out of discussions about recordings than I do discussions about the music.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

_There is nothing more difficult than talking about music_ - Camille Saint-Saens.

It is true, but there is no harm in trying. Also you got to remember that online is more difficult than face to face (or say, even on the phone, talking in 'real time').

But we all have a common reference point, or a series of them - primarily the music itself, and also aspects about how/why it was written, the composer's life at the time, the history, and then narrowing down to different interpretations of the work, recordings, etc.

But I'm basically a big picture person, I am more interested in a work per se (& the things I mentioned first off) than listening to half a dozen or a dozen different interpretations of it.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Music can be such a subjective form. Whats good and right is governed by Common consensus rather than divine rule. Hence some people may despise a work or performer while others virtually deify them. Many musicians accept the manuscript as gospel others describe it as "For the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" Hell! I've talked to people who refuse to accept that A = 440 hz!


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

I guess people have been 'dancing about architecture' for quite some time now, especially the last few hundred years. Isn't that quote just a tongue-in-cheeky way of stating the obvious fact that we can't capture or reproduce music (or other arts) in a different medium? Maybe the person meant something else, I don't know.. Sounds like a bit of artsy anti-intellectualism. While it's true that we can't do that, aren't there plenty of intelligeble things we can say and discuss about music and our experience of music?


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Absolutely, Norse. There are plenty of things in music which are best done by talking. The pre-concert talks are a vibrant and very helpful part of a concert experience for many. That's one example. This forum is another.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dancing never led to conclusions, but many agree it is fun to dance, and dance with others.

Meanwhile, for a millenium or more, composers have 'danced the dance' and made some definitively conclusive pieces of music, about which some of us, sportingly, continue to dance.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Music Theory is one of the most amazing fields out there to me. People have tried for so long to objectify aspects of aesthetics, and certain ground rules have been put in place. But there are so many exceptions to theory that theorists have trouble naming all of them, let alone explaining why they work outside theory. As a high school teacher told me, theory isn't a matter of right and wrong, but what works and doesn't work. 

Thus, I find Theory really interesting to study, thus discuss. As I've learned more and more theory, the more I've realized just how complex music is. Yes, some of it is almost beyond describing, but if you can manage to analyze a piece of music down to its very elements, that's an honorable feat.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

brianwalker said:


> "Talking about music is like dancing about
> architecture", the old (and endlessly re-attributed) adage goes.
> 
> But this forum has danced, and danced wonderfully, to architecture.
> ...


It strikes me that a lot of people are very good, expert even, at talking rubbish about music and if you switch to the communal forum other things as well .


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Words about music can be quite interesting but for some reason I've never cared for words in music, any kind of music. I have never made the slightest effort to actually listen to what lyrics are about (ok sometimes you just can't ignore it). It's not that I don't like singing, not at all. I like the voice as an instrument, but the words mean nothing to me. It's like I value every other aspect of music so much more that there is no room left for me to care for the words. Also I prefer to give my own meaning to music instead of it being forced upon me with words. Yes I am strange.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> ... People have tried for so long to objectify aspects of aesthetics, and certain ground rules have been put in place. But there are so many exceptions to theory that theorists have trouble naming all of them, let alone explaining why they work outside theory. As a high school teacher told me, theory isn't a matter of right and wrong, but what works and doesn't work.
> 
> ...


It's similar in other fields (eg. history, or other creative arts, and even more experimental branches of the sciences). Probably all aspects of human endeavour have things like trying things out, throwing ideas around, trial and error. That's why I think it's okay to do that here, to discuss things (but I'm not on a theoretical level with music as a musician is, just an enthusiast!).


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I honestly don't ever care to talk about music or even think about it too much. I have enough to concern myself in respect to the sheer amount of notes and all the different interpretations that I don't care to worry about why it was written or for what reason. Those aren't the things I think about when I'm enjoying music (when I truly am, I don't think at all!) and I don't feel I enjoy it any less without them. More important than listening to music, for me, is creating it; with others.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Sometimes I feel that I actually prefer talking about music (or any art) to experiencing it. The experience itself is always a bit lonely, while talking is social and thus satisfying on a different level.


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