# The Importance of Artist Interpretation: Beethoven Op111, #32



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Inspired by another thread, this is an example of how artist interpretation can contribute to appreciation of a work to the point that a familiar work can sound new again. Beethoven's #32 Piano Sonata 2nd movement 'Arietta' is a case-in-point. While the composer can give a certain amount of information in the score as to how a work is to be played, there is a remarkable amount of leeway as to how to interpret that information. On the other hand, some information is often not there to begin with such as, in this example, how loud the left hand should be played versus the right hand or even which notes should be emphasized on one hand where there is complex detail in the notes played by that hand.

As most people here know, the Arietta is a series of variations based on a fairly simple opening theme. One of the most magnificent moments in this movement is the recapitalization or resolution. Most performers play the recapitalization with the right hand tapping out the theme while the left hand is playing at a lower level with an almost 'growling' (my description) accompaniment, a legitimate interpretation, but unfortunately detail, that I think Beethoven wanted to be heard, is lost. An example is Daniel Trifonov's performance: listen at the start of the recapitulation at 23:25.

But, in addition at a critical part (IMO) 23:54, in the right hand Trifonov emphasizes the theme, but misses detail, still in the right hand, that I'm sure Beethoven intended to be heard. (This is still a wonderful performance. The final triple trilling at 25:32 is exquisite.)






On the other hand, Daniel Barenboim emphasizes the detail in the left-hand -and plays at a slightly slower tempo to emphasize the detail- compared to Trifonov in the recapitulation at 25:50, but more particularly, you hear detail in the right hand starting at 26:15 that is not heard in most other performances:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The interesting thing about this piece is the tempo of the first three variations. As far as I know the score indicates that Beethoven wanted them at the same sort of speed as the theme. There’s a tradition of pianists’ speeding them up, I think it starts with Schnabel. 

I’d also say this piece, especially the trills, is radically altered when played on a modern piano, and the resulting sonority is probably not what the composer had in mind.

By the way, this month saw the release of a new performance on record by a piano player called Fazil Say. What he does with the first movement is interesting and original I think - he makes it sound like something by Liszt! He seemed a bit less inspired by the variations movement to me.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> The interesting thing about this piece is the tempo of the first three variations. As far as I know the score indicates that Beethoven wanted them at the same sort of speed as the theme. There's a tradition of pianists' speeding them up, I think it starts with Schnabel.
> 
> I'd also say this piece, especially the frills, is radically altered when played on a modern piano, and the resulting sonority is probably not what the composer had in mind.
> 
> By the way, this month saw the release of a new performance on record by a piano player called Fazil Say. What he does with the first movement is interesting and original I think - he makes it sound like something by Liszt! He seemed a bit less inspired by the variations movement to me.


Can you tell me of a period instrument performance of this sonata that you like? Perhaps Peter Serkin is worthy? I have a MHS reissue disc with him playing sonatas 27, 28, 29 and it's pretty good but in bizarre recorded sound.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Can you tell me of a period instrument performance of this sonata that you like? Perhaps Peter Serkin is worthy? I have a MHS reissue disc with him playing sonatas 27, 28, 29 and it's pretty good but in bizarre recorded sound.


Maybe try Paul Komen.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ You don't like Brautigam's Beethoven? 

I also wonder whether you feel it makes a difference playing the work on a Bosendorfer rather than a Steinway?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ You don't like Brautigam's Beethoven?
> 
> I also wonder whether you feel it makes a difference playing the work on a Bosendorfer rather than a Steinway?


Sorry, I just don't want to think about Beethoven at the moment, I should never have got involved in this thread really. Just thinking about Beethoven gives me the heebie geebies. I don't like his music at all!

Belated new year's resolution. No more Beethoven for me.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Just thinking about Beethoven gives me the heebie geebies. I don't like his music at all!
> ... No more Beethoven for me.


Good to know!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

DaveM;1763681
As most people here know said:


> JcFFxvG8pWg[/MEDIA]
> 
> On the other hand, Daniel Barenboim emphasizes the detail in the left-hand -and plays at a slightly slower tempo to emphasize the detail- compared to Trifonov in the recapitulation at 25:50, but more particularly, you hear detail in]Inspired by another thread, this is an example of how artist interpretation can contribute to appreciation of a work to the point that a familiar work can sound new again. Beethoven's #32 Piano Sonata 2nd movement 'Arietta' is a case-in-point. While the composer can give a certain amount of information in the score as to how a work is to be played, there is a remarkable amount of leeway as to how to interpret that information. On the other hand, some information is often not there to begin with such as, in this example, how loud the left hand should be played versus the right hand the right hand starting at 26:15 that is not heard in most other performances:


I didn't know this stuff so thanks! I only started listening to the last three sonatas recently so I have a long way to go as far as absorbing all of the music. All I know is the opening to Op.109 is the most beautiful moment in classical piano music for my ears. Kills me every time.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Sorry, I just don't want to think about Beethoven at the moment, I should never have got involved in this thread really. Just thinking about Beethoven gives me the heebie geebies. I don't like his music at all!
> 
> Belated new year's resolution. No more Beethoven for me.


Sorry to have given you the heebie geebies. But what if my questions had concerned Mozart? Probably more pianists have used fortepianos for Mozart but Brautigam was one and others have used Bosendorfers rather than Steinways.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I just discovered Trifonov on YouTube a couple nights ago. That kid plays great!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> Sorry to have given you the heebie geebies. But what if my questions had concerned Mozart? Probably more pianists have used fortepianos for Mozart but Brautigam was one and others have used Bosendorfers rather than Steinways.


Brautingham's Bosendorfer sustains more than Staier's piano in Mozart. That does effect the music.

The effect of Beethoven's trills on a period piano is really different from what they sound like on a metal framed piano I think. Different enough to make me think that, however attractive the modern pianist's work is, it's not quite what Beethoven was expecting. I've not thought enough to comment on this sort of thing for Mozart -- where there seems to be less trills, less sforzandi.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Thanks. Is Brautigam also (as well as Gulda) playing a Bosendorfer for his Mozart? I thought it was a period piano. He certainly sounds and plays differently to Staier in Mozart. Typically (for me) I like both!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Maybe not. There is one Mozart set on a Bosendofer -- Marco Albrizio.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

starthrower said:


> I didn't know this stuff so thanks! I only started listening to the last three sonatas recently so I have a long way to go as far as absorbing all of the music. All I know is the opening to Op.109 is the most beautiful moment in classical piano music for my ears. Kills me every time.


Agreed. That's probably my favorite Beethoven sonata. Check out Schnabel sometime if you can. It's an old recording but he plays it beautifully. Also look out for Maurizio Pollini playing the last 5 Beethoven sonatas, if you ever see it in a record store or something. Well worth getting. Phenomenal recordings, though I know there are some here that do not like it.


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## 444mil (May 27, 2018)

Listen to Pletnev playing this. Live at carnegie hall disc.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

A lesser known American pianist, Andrew Rangell (all right, I knew him once), has a recording whose Arietta transports one etherially.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

Trifonov plays from his heart but unfortunately his rendition muffled the entire middle voice which is essential for this section (maybe a problem with the recording rather than his intention). The rhythmic figure of the middle voice serves important function for structural continuity of the last movement (Beethoven's soul ascending to the heaven in my view). The 1/16 notes creates a sense of tension throughout the piece which is completely released in the extraordinary coda with the trills.

On a second listening: "missing details" are there he was just focusing on the top voice.

Mr. Trifonov is also not delicate with the dynamic markings. His interpretation is "Russian" and very much his own.


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