# looking for pieces with "skilful use of silence" but not pauses.



## arthro (Mar 12, 2013)

Hi all,

Occasionally I have heard commentaries saying that such and such a piece skilfully uses silences, and if I have managed to identify where that happens I've often thought that the silences were pauses, which is fine, but right now I was more interested in pieces that might weave silence in and out rather more as a sound (better said non-sound) in and of itself. I.e. silence as an overt musical tool among others. John Cage's famous piece might qualify except that it only use silence and I was looking for more of a mixture of sound and silence.

My own belief is that the silence before a piece starts and after it ends can be seen as part of the piece, in the way a frame is part of a picture, but, as I say, I was wondering if anybody might have a favourite piece piece which they feel might fit this description, I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Cheers and thanks for reading!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Andrew Rangell's program note for his own recording of Beethoven's last piano sonata, comments engagingly how the last movement ends with "a silence unlike any heard before."


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Not a specific musical work, but silence is beautiful to contemplate.
http://www.quotegarden.com/silence.html


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

arthro said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Occasionally I have heard commentaries saying that such and such a piece skilfully uses silences, and if I have managed to identify where that happens I've often thought that the silences were pauses, which is fine, but right now I was more interested in pieces that might weave silence in and out rather more as a sound (better said non-sound) in and of itself. I.e. silence as an overt musical tool among others. John Cage's famous piece might qualify except that it only use silence and I was looking for more of a mixture of sound and silence.
> 
> ...


The Barraque sonata. Lots of things by Nono in his final period as it were -- if you're interested I'll find some references.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

The end of the Sibelius 5th Symphony, where the pregnant pauses are an inherent part of the dramatic argument


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I am not sure where a pause ends and silence begins (or is it the other way around?) however Mahler calls for a 5 minute pause between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 2nd symphony (Resurrection).


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

You may find great joy in John Cage and Morten Feldman .... But as silence goes, in music, silence is an absolute necessity -- always! Every piece of music ever performed or heard has utilized silence, for silence is that where there is an absence of sound. And if one has only sound, one has essentially white noise -- that stuff you hear between radio stations, the full frequency of sound from the lowest levels of hearing to the highest.

Every piece of music is crafted by adding sounds into silence. But there always remains silence. Beethoven's Fifth opens with a wonderful wash of silence as all the orchestra but the strings and clarinets sit quiet. One sees (hears) a half page of silence on the score at the opening of the Fifth. And it continues.

As well, when the French horns play, each horn plays but one note at a time. The other notes of the horn's range remain unheard. That, too, is utilization of silence.

When one thinks about it, one realizes that silence is much more prevalent in music than is sound. And it also makes the Cage piece 4'33" seem much more profound as an embrace of just the silences inherent in all music.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think a masterful example of "skillful use of silence" can be found in the first movement of Mahler's 3rd particularly from about 1:30-10:00 in this video.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Silence is the canvas on which Mahler paints the "Grosse Apppell" in the final movement of the 2nd Symphony.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

I think Eva-Maria Houben is one of the most masterful composers of silence and sound. Her music is very sparse but it never makes me uncomfortable, unlike some of avant-garde composers who use silence in extreme ways.

abgemalt
http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/track/abgemalt


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

tortkis said:


> avant-garde composers who use silence in extreme ways.
> 
> ]


Who are you thinking of?

The Eva - Maria Houben made me think of parts of Stockhausen's Naturliche Dauern.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Who are you thinking of?
> 
> The Eva - Maria Houben made me think of parts of Stockhausen's Naturliche Dauern.


I don't remember the names but some Donaueschinger composers who use too much ppppppppp (maybe not exactly silence.)

I recently listened Feldman's early piano pieces by Sabine Liebner. I like his late piano works but I had difficulty with the early ones, which sounded more arbitrary.

Some of Jürg Frey's works are elusive but I like some of them very much.

I have not heard Naturliche Dauern. Samples sounded good.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

If you don't mind some ambient music, silence is a theme that runs through much of the music of Steve Roach. You could check out his classic Structures from Silence. 
Another interesting album is Darkest Before Dawn, meant to be played at low (barely audible) volume in the background. Is it music? Is it a loop? As featureless and shapeless as it is, somehow there is something alluring going on near the threshold of silence. 
https://steveroach.bandcamp.com/track/darkest-before-dawn


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## arthro (Mar 12, 2013)

Thank you to all posters who replied, some great points ... I shall go through all your suggestions and maybe find my favourite.

Cheers to all!


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

The part 'with air (world's first airquartet!)' from 'With or without' by Mayke Nas. I am not sure if a performance of this composition can be found on the internet, but the last photo of this website (by Mayke herself) shows how it looks:
http://www.maykenas.nl/withorwithout.html


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Beethoven's middle and late string quartets maybe?


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)




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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I think Beethoven (starting from his middle period) like no others leaves room for silence, sometimes literally but also in the way he economically arranges his motives. Even when there's a lot of things happening at the same time you can feel the silence behind all that. 

Compared to Beethoven other composers often present there themes and motives in an awfully "pushy" way.


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