# Fugues



## Jord (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm curious on others opinions on composers fugues, i haven't heard a great amount of fugues but from what i have personally i feel J.S.Bachs later fugues are genius, Purcells are good from what i've heard, Beethovens Grosse is interesting, however as much as i love Shostakovich his set of 24 prelude and fugues are a major disappointment and i hardly feel that they're worthy to be fugues.

Curious on others thoughts on the subject


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I disagree about Shostakovich's fugues--but reasonable people can disagree. It's a hobby of mine to put Shosty's op.87 and Bach's WTC side-by-side to see what the former learned from the latter. As is often the case for me with Shosty, it's the unique response to earlier composers that seems to be a main source of strength in his work (and, perhaps, in his life!). 

A great neglected master of fugues from the 20th century is William Walton, who was addicted to a Beethoven-like pattern of a series of variations leading up to a fugue in several of his compositions.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

One of the best players of fugues could also write a pretty good one!


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## Jord (Aug 13, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> I disagree about Shostakovich's fugues--but reasonable people can disagree. It's a hobby of mine to put Shosty's op.87 and Bach's WTC side-by-side to see what the former learned from the latter. As is often the case for me with Shosty, it's the unique response to earlier composers that seems to be a main source of strength in his work (and, perhaps, in his life!).


I can't disagree with you because i've never studied Shostakovich's fugues, i'm just going on my ears, which admittedly is my weakest point, i enjoy listening to them but i just think the standard of composition as a fugue from Shostakovich is a disappointment

just now i'm looking at the score to his 7th in A major, i think maybe the reason i don't think Shostakovichs fugues are very good is after the 3rd voice enters (in this fugue anyway) the voices seem to merge and there's less clarity between the voices making it sound more of a piece written for the piano rather than a fugue

Also after the 3rd voice enters in this fugue i find Shostakovich's part writing awful compared to Bach


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Jord said:


> I can't disagree with you because i've never studied Shostakovich's fugues, i'm just going on my ears, which admittedly is my weakest point, i enjoy listening to them but i just think the standard of composition as a fugue from Shostakovich is a disappointment
> 
> just now i'm looking at the score to his 7th in A major, i think maybe the reason i don't think Shostakovichs fugues are very good is after the 3rd voice enters (in this fugue anyway) the voices seem to merge and there's less clarity between the voices making it sound more of a piece written for the piano rather than a fugue
> 
> Also after the 3rd voice enters in this fugue i find Shostakovich's part writing awful compared to Bach


Well, I certainly wouldn't want to say Shostakovich achieved Bach's level of mastery! By the way, what recording are you listening to?


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## Jord (Aug 13, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> Well, I certainly wouldn't want to say Shostakovich achieved Bach's level of mastery! By the way, what recording are you listening to?


of course that was stupid of me :lol: i was listening to a performance by Keith Jarrett, however i was curious that it could be the performer so i listened to a performance by Ashekenazy on youtube however it still failed to please me


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I'd try Nikolayeva or Melnikov before writing off op.87 completely; Jenny Lin has an interesting recent version as well. Ashkenazy is good, but he misses a lot of notes--it has the feeling to me of being somewhat tossed off. 

(My apologies for derailing the thread!)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

If we allow fugal sections of larger works, I'm very fond of the double fugue in the finale of Bruckner's Fifth. The similar double fugue in the first movement of Mahler's Eighth is fascinating in his inimitable style. Stravinsky, in his later years, was somewhat harsh on the fugue texture of the second movement of his Symphony of Psalms, saying it was too regular and predictable, but I feel it fits very well in context, although I'll admit his use of the form is a bit abnormal (usually, one doesn't have a voice enter between other voices).

The fugue in the finale of Tchaikovsky's Manfred Symphony is tedious, and the similar one in Berlioz's Fantastique is somewhat awkward, but both of them seemingly took Beethoven for a model rather than Bach.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

You have the famous _Cat Fugue_ by D.Scarlatti: 



The last movement from the _Hammerklavier_ sonata by Beethoven: 



This unusual piece by Chopin: 



The second movement from Ravel's Le tombeau de Couperin:


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## camaron (Aug 13, 2013)

The last bit of (a fugue) Britten's Young Person's Guide is very nice but not something you would want to compare with Bach. It really is kind of harsh to compare others composer's fugues with those of Bach. I think Beethoven got there in the end.

I really nice fugue by a very unlikely composer: Concerto No.11 from the L'estro Armonico by Vivaldi. The last part of the first movement, after a fast imitative introduction and a short, transitional adagio. And disgressing a bit... have you compared the largo movement that follows with Bach's siciliano from his harpsichord concerto bvw 1053?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Fugue, schmugue. I'll take a good canon any day.

Row, row...


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Fugue, schmugue. I'll take a good canon any day.
> 
> Row, row...


Alright already,enough already I say, you have your canons--- just don't let them explode !!

My favourite,as I've said before,is from Weinberger's "Schwanda der Dudelsackpfeifer". (Polka and Fugue).


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There is Glenn Gould's "So you want to write a fugue"


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Sanctus from Verdi's requiem - a double fugue I believe?

And the final number from Falstaff.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

Richard's Strauss _Also Sprach Zarathustra_ contains a fugue on the opening theme that everyone knows. Personally I love many of Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues but this is just my opinion and I don't know enough to defend Shostakovich's technique in fugue writing.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Hovhaness was apparently very fluent in counterpoint and loved writing fugues. Not sure how good they are - I am no expert. But I like the one in the second movement of his second symphony.

And then there is the wonderfully bleak, desolate fugue in the first movement of Bartok's Music for strings, percussion and celesta...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Another popular Hovhaness fugal work is his Prelude and Quadruple Fugue, Op. 128.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The Shostakovich 24 preludes and fugues are praised to the skies by some. I think they are nothing much new, interesting, or whatever else it is that makes people rave about them.

I'm happy with the fugue from Stravinsky's _Concerto for two pianos solo_, the double inverted fugue from his _Symphony of Psalms_ is both remarkable and beautiful.

I love the first movement of Bartok's _Music for stringed instruments, percussion and celesta_, though it is endlessly argued if it is truly a fugue or a multi layered canon of eleven pitches with greater than usual length.

The final fugue movement of Barber's piano sonata is snappy and somewhat impressive.

I imagine someone will get around to listing Ravel's Fugue from _Le Tombeau de Couperin, but there is another which I don't care for at all. _Any of Those works which sound the most like ole J.S.'s fugal procedure, regardless of their harmonic language, are the least interesting to me (Ergo, my lack of caring for the Shostakovich 24.)


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I have only heard the two movements from _Le Tombeau de Couperin_ that Ravel did not orchestrate (one of them being the Fugue) once or twice. I didn't "get" them. Maybe there is a good reason Ravel did not orchestrate them.


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## Rehydration (Jun 25, 2013)

spradlig said:


> Richard's Strauss _Also Sprach Zarathustra_ contains a fugue on the opening theme that everyone knows. Personally I love many of Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues but this is just my opinion and I don't know enough to defend Shostakovich's technique in fugue writing.


The Also Sprach Zarathustra fugue is my favourite of all the fugues I've heard.
I like Liszt's Prelude and Fugue on B-A-C-H.


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## Musician (Jul 25, 2013)

Hilarious!!!
............



KenOC said:


> One of the best players of fugues could also write a pretty good one!


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

New or interesting, maybe not, but the Shostakovich prelude and fugue no. 4 in E minor is utterly beautiful. And the fugue happens to be an expertly crafted double fugue.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hreichgott said:


> New or interesting, maybe not, but the Shostakovich prelude and fugue no. 4 in E minor is utterly beautiful. And the fugue happens to be an expertly crafted double fugue.


Great call! Listening to it now.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rossini ~ Petite Messe Solennelle; Cum Sancto Spiritu


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## Picander (May 8, 2013)

The 2nd tempo of the overture of Haendel's Messiah is a very nice fugue for 3 voices.

In this video this wonderful fugue starts at 1:11


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

One thing i love about fugues, and densely contrapuntal pieces of music in general, is that they only really come into full existence during a performance. In a sense, this applies to all music, but to fugues in particular.

One could whistle entire classical symphonies from beginning to end, reducing them to a single voice and still preserving most of their musical argumentation. But with fugues, that's next to impossible.

At least to the non-professional, they're too complex to keep in one's head. All of the interplay between the voices only really reveals itself as it happens.

One can reproduce, so to speak, the piano music by Satie or Mozart or even Schumann, by thinking of it and get the impression that one has the pieces more or less entirely in one's head. One can somewhat satisfyingly play them in one's mind. But no fugues from the WTC. They need to be experienced, each and every single time, to be fully there.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

Except, J.S.Bach, the most successive works are found among the masterpieces of Wolfgang A. Mozart, I believe. The last movement of the Jupitor symphony and Requiem.


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## pianolearnerstride (Dec 17, 2014)

Here's a Vivaldi fugue I like:





Mozart's cminor k546 for strings:





Rocky fugue by Bill Conti (reminds me a lot of the vivaldi fugue):


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

Have you ever listened to Glenn Gould's fugue? I can't recall anything but his approach to J.S.Bach, but at the last movement of his SQ. you'll find a parody of 19 century's masterpiece of fugue. Also here you could find a collaboration of a soprano solo and SQ. He was, as you know, crazy about counterpoint.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

HIDEKI SUKENOBU said:


> Have you ever listened to Glenn Gould's fugue? I can't recall anything but his approach to J.S.Bach, but at the last movement of his SQ. you'll find a parody of 19 century's masterpiece of fugue. Also here you could find a collaboration of a soprano solo and SQ. He was, as you know, crazy about counterpoint.


Did Gould compose as well?! I really need to hear this.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Did Gould compose as well?! I really need to hear this.


He certainly wrote this one!


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Check out this Chopin (yes, Chopin) fugue:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The greatest fugues, IMO are the 48 that J.S. Bach wrote for the Well-Tempered Clavier.

To get the most out of them, I recommend harpsichord performances over the piano.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Here's another favorite by Bach, the Fantasia and Fugue in A minor BWV 904:






Sokolov in an amazing live performance.

*p.s.* And Kenneth Gilbert on harpsichord for those who won't listen to JSB on the piano!


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

hpowders said:


> The greatest fugues, IMO are the 48 that J.S. Bach wrote for the Well-Tempered Clavier.
> 
> To get the most out of them, I recommend harpsichord performances over the piano.


Do you mean because of the sonority, or because on a harpsichord one can't push the lower voices into the background? The latter is what I appreciate about the harpsichord.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Andreas said:


> Do you mean because of the sonority, or because on a harpsichord one can't push the lower voices into the background? The latter is what I appreciate about the harpsichord.


Yes. Partly The latter. Bach on piano. The lower voices always seem synthetic and mechanical.

Also, because the harpsichord can produce effects the piano can't.

Play the Sarabande from the First Keyboard Partita on piano and compare it when performed on the harpsichord.
Focus on the plaintive trill in the second section. The harpsichord produces a heartbreaking effect. Not so on piano. Just another trill.

And yes. The sonority of the harpsichord sounds so right in Bach, IMO.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

KenOC said:


> He certainly wrote this one!


It's a very long time since I last listened to this. G.G. was really fond of counterpoint; a rare genius. But a long time has passed, and now I feel his fugue is somewhat redundant. That's the reason why he didn't become a composer, in favour of which we enjoyed lots of his recordings.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Max Reger used fugue a lot, and not just on his voluminous keyboard output.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My favorite fugues are from J.S. Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, Books One and Two.

They bring me to a higher spiritual condition than any mass or requiem can do.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The opening Andante Tranquillo movement of Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta is a haunting slow fugue.

A work of uncommon genius and one of my favorite fugues.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Andreas said:


> because on a harpsichord one can't push the lower voices into the background? The latter is what I appreciate about the harpsichord.


I've always preferred the piano's sound, but I'm enjoying harpsichord performances much more now with this reasoning in mind!


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

I love the fugue "Lo Body and Soul this Land" from Hindemith's Requiem.






I also like to post something a tad different. John Williams "Shark Cage Fugue" from his score to Jaws.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The third movement fugue from Ives' Fourth Symphony is a terrific piece of music.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

hpowders said:


> The third movement fugue from Ives' Fourth Symphony is a terrific piece of music.


The Fugue of Ives' 4th symphony is really a terrific piece! I agree.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Andreas said:


> Check out this Chopin (yes, Chopin) fugue:


Clearly not his natural metier. Rhythmically square and earthbound. Its harmonic wanderings are reined in too quickly. Bach would made the subject less rhythmically uniform, developed it with more freedom in more adventurous episodes, turned it upside down, surprised us with modulations, etc. This sounds like a composition class assignment. Maybe it was.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

There's also a fine fugue written by Benjamin Britten for his Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

And for a jazzy, fun fugue ... Darius Milhaud's _La Creation du Monde_


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Becca said:


> And for a jazzy, fun fugue ... Darius Milhaud's _La Creation du Monde_


Oh, is it a fugue? I didn't realise that!


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Who says DSCH can't write a fugue...






for my money some of our loveliest fugues, have come from his pen.


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## Picander (May 8, 2013)

No mentions to Haendel? He wrote lots of fugues, and the overtures for his Oratorios usually are a first movement in the form of a French Overture (double dot) followed by a fugue. Sometimes, in Solomon for example, there is a third movement.

Some examples:

Fugue from the Overture to Messiah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhODs2Dhq8Y#t=01m05s

Fugue from the Overture to Solomon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJCXxS3GRv8#t=01m18s

Another fugue from Solomon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUU2BBjVcbo#t=17m57s

And one of my favorites, the fugue from the overture to Jephta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlD6Kl7ePwU#t=01m11s


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