# European championship Football (soccer) 2020 (2021)



## Art Rock

A year later than intended, but tonight is the kick-off for the second biggest event for national football teams after the Fifa world cup. Which teams are you 'supporting'? Which ones do you think have the best chance of winning? Also, once the games are under way you can leave your comments in this thread.

I'll be hoping the Dutch do well in their first major tournament since Fifa 2014. But without van Dijk and the preferred keeper Cillesen (not selected because of Covid-19), reaching the quarter finals would already be a surprising result (I have higher hopes for the team in next year's world cup). I also intend to watch the Belgians and the English (I always watch the Premier League Match of the Day programs), and of course any major clashes in the group phase (especially the games between Germany, France and Portugal, which have been drawn in one group).

France seems to be the generally favoured site, and it's difficult to argue against that. But past Euro championship have seen underdogs like Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Denmark, Greece, and Portugal go all the way - and I have a feeling this year might be Belgium's.

Other countries I expect to do well are England and Italy - and maybe Portugal. I do not expect Germany or Spain to shine.

What do you think?


----------



## annaw

It's great being a double citizen - considering that Estonia didn't even make it, I shall devotedly support Finland, who is making their European Championship debut! Although our chances seem to be generally significantly better in hockey than in football.

I like that EURO is rarely entirely predictable, but I still suppose that one of the greats is going to win it, although I have been too lazy to give a lot of thought to the changes that have happened in their national teams. I think France probably has a great chance, but I'm generally fond of the German team's style as well. However, it's difficult to say who will be successful in the Group of Death aka Group F. Belgium's games are probably also going to be interesting to follow, especially as they have Kevin de Bruyne on their team, not to mention England with 17 years old Jude Bellingham. But then there's also Spain, Portugal, Italy.... In the end, I have really no idea.


----------



## Vronsky

I like the Portuguese team, very consistent, although they're not considered among the Top 5 favourites to win the tournament. Their midfield and attack are lethal, plus they have Dias and Cancelo who had excellent seasons.

The English team looks like a dream team on paper, but their lack of any success past 50 years makes people sceptics.


----------



## elgar's ghost

For a team which always manages to be given a high seeding England are perennial chokers - and as much as I want them to win I don't expect things to be any different this time either.


----------



## Highwayman

I usually support underdogs. I supported Iceland on the previous event and I think they did a pretty good job. Unfortunately they couldn`t make it this time but I intend to continue my tradition of supporting Nordic countries even though I`m not very familiar with any of them this year. Other than that I`ll support England as I believe this might be it. But if I had to choose one team with a gun pointed at my head, I`d choose the Belgians. :devil:

I watched a few games of the Hungarians and I predict that they might tackle one of the greats in the group of death. My home country Turkey might also make a surprise this year as they have the best squad of their history but I won`t be supporting them as I have a grudge against the manager and several of the players. I also dislike the country itself. :lol:


----------



## Knorf

I can't foresee a clear favorite for the Euros this year, excepting possibly France.

Probably I'll cheer for England as I usually do, and otherwise for whomever I think is playing the best, most interesting and exciting football. So probably not Italy. :lol: 

Group F is an insane Group of Death this year. Germany, France, Portugal, Hungary? Gah!


----------



## Art Rock

I only saw a fragment of the opening show, but Andrea Bocelli singing Nessun Dorma was a very obvious choice.

Anyway, it gives me the chance to post this meme again:

View attachment 113388


----------



## Kiki

Only turned on the TV 5 mins before kickoff so I missed Bocelli's seagull act completely *sigh*... I was however dumbstruck when I saw the VW toy car gimmick!


----------



## Art Rock

And we're off. Italy convert their advantage to a 1-0 lead - an own goal.

Not watching the game continuously, but I have it open on the laptop in a separate tab so I can switch if something happens.

ETA: and 2-0 by Immobile - no way Turkey is coming back into this game.


----------



## Kiki

Think Turkey started with a game plan to crowd the midfield with a 4141 but they defended too deep for that to be effective. Then they pushed up in the 2nd half but left space behind and all of a sudden 2 down.

P.S. 

Convincing 3:0 victory to Italy at the end...

What's more interesting to me is what I saw at the end of the game... FIFA president Gianni Infantino and UEFA president Aleksander Čeferin were, technically speaking, sitting next to each other, separated by 4 empty seats. Social distancing measures aside, I wonder if they chit-chatted about Mr. Infantino's role in the Super League saga... :lol:


----------



## Highwayman

Turkish players played like headless turkeys. :lol:

But seriously, Turkey could not conduct their game-plan because Italy did not let them. Mancini knows Turkey very well and I believe he predicted Gunes`s tactics successfully and prevented it. They were very disciplined throughout the game. Berardi and Spinazzola were particularly effective, the latter practically played as a left-forward tonight. I was expecting Italy to win but they thoroughly dominated the game. I guess we should see the Swiss and Welsh teams as well but I have no doubt Italy will advance to the next round with this head start.


----------



## Art Rock

The first two matches of today did not interest me, just happened to switch on Denmark-Finland, only to see Christian Eriksen being carried off to the hospital with the suspicion of a heart attack. Hoping he's OK.


----------



## Kiki

Very disturbing. There were a few stressful images shown on TV that implied his condition before the privacy wall was put up. I was fearing for the worst. The latest UEFA EURO 2020 tweet stated “The player has been transferred to the hospital and has been stabilised”. Hope he will be OK!


----------



## joen_cph

Eriksen's life was probably saved by those medics and the quick response.
The reasonable thing to do, based on reports about his improved condition, would be to postpone the match until tomorrow. The decision-making seems awkwardly slow.

EDIT: the rest of the match is however played this evening, apparently also after consulting the players themselves, starting in about 30 minutes from now. Eriksen is now said to be talking with his family AND has talked with members of the team.


----------



## Highwayman

joen_cph said:


> Eriksen is now said to be talking with his family AND has talked with members of the team.


That`s a relief! I wish him a speedy recovery and I hope we`ll be able to see him on the pitch again.

I don`t have any background information on it but I think continuing the game tonight was a bad call for Denmark. I`d be very surprised if they could manage to advance under these unfortunate circumstances.


----------



## joen_cph

Story now is that UEFA only gave two options for the Danish team - continue the game now, or play tomorrow at 12 AM, which would make only a rather short break. So the Danish team accepted an immediate continuation.

Apparently UEFA is also in charge of the general broadcast signal; Danish television quickly changed to aerial views of the city/stadium, rather than showing the medical treatment.


----------



## perempe

Hope Hungary can advance despite being in the same group with Portugal, Germany and France.

Today I want to watch the Nets' playoff game (9PM), the final of the French Open (3PM) & two matches from the EURO (3PM, 9PM, might skip Austria's).


----------



## Art Rock

My tournament favourites Belgium demolished Russia 3-0. Impressive.

I plan to watch the English and Dutch games today.


----------



## Kiki

In less than five hours' time, a marathon will start with 3 Eiuro games followed by 2 Copa America games! Aren't we spoiled? I'd like to watch at least 3 of them, England v Croatia, Netherlands v Ukraine, and Brazil v Venezuela. Even that might still be too ambitious. And that's football only, not counting other sports! Luckily there's no F1 this weekend! I better go get some sleep now before the first game starts :lol:


----------



## Kiki

Art Rock said:


> My tournament favourites Belgium demolished Russia 3-0. Impressive.
> 
> I plan to watch the English and Dutch games today.


I kind of feel that they were running in second gear only!


----------



## Malx

Being retired I will be able to watch Scotland's first match against Czech Republic on Monday afternoon live! If this is a good thing or not is a debatable point.
We haven't qualified for the finals since 1996 and as perennial under achievers at major tournaments my expectations are limited - but you never know. We will be hard to beat but I'm not sure if we have the fire power to cause opponents much concern. I'd like to see Kevin Nisbet given a starting place up front, he for me is the most natural finisher we have in the squad, and he recently played for my team Dunfermline Athletic so I'll admit I am a little biased.


----------



## perempe

Art Rock said:


> My tournament favourites Belgium demolished Russia 3-0. Impressive.
> 
> I plan to watch the English and Dutch games today.


So We both plan to skip Austria-North Macedonia.


----------



## Art Rock

Yes, even though it is in the same group as the Netherlands - I'm not watching three games on the same day.


----------



## Art Rock

Hm. Southgate is opting for a rather defensive formation without Grealish - and with Chilwell and Shaw in the selection, he's picked Trippier as left back....

The BBC pundits called it "Mourinhoesque", and it does not look promising for the game.


----------



## Art Rock

I had planned to watch the England game in the gallery, which we sometimes open on a Sunday afternoon. Turned out that there were many people coming in to look around, and I had some very interesting discussions. Did not see a minute of the first half, but based on the BBC website comments, I did not miss much. Closing now, and watching the second half at home (30 meters away).


----------



## Malx

perempe said:


> So We both plan to skip Austria-North Macedonia.


I am now tempted to watch this game - when many people think something isn't worth watching it can turn out to be an exciting game.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Malx said:


> Being retired I will be able to watch Scotland's first match against Czech Republic on Monday afternoon live! If this is a good thing or not is a debatable point.
> We haven't qualified for the finals since 1996 and as perennial under achievers at major tournaments my expectations are limited - but you never know. We will be hard to beat but I'm not sure if we have the fire power to cause opponents much concern. I'd like to see Kevin Nisbet given a starting place up front, he for me is the most natural finisher we have in the squad, and he recently played for my team Dunfermline Athletic so I'll admit I am a little biased.


This is probably the worst Czech team since 1993. Would desperately like to see them do well in a tournament that often brings out the best in them, but I am not holding my breath...

Italy or Belgium will win.....


----------



## Knorf

FWIW, the Czechs actually do want their country to be called Czechia, as their official "short name." I don't know why the English-speaking world is so slow to catch on. Of course one can keep using the long name, "the Czech Republic," but I personally think "Czechia" is lovely. 

In other news, good on England for holding it together this morning against Croatia!


----------



## Malx

Knorf said:


> FWIW, the Czechs actually do want their country to be called Czechia, as their official "short name." I don't know why the English-speaking world is so slow to catch on. Of course one can keep using the long name, "the Czech Republic," but I personally think "Czechia" is lovely.
> 
> In other news, good on England for holding it together this morning against Croatia!


Thanks for putting me right Knorf - truth be told I still think of Czechoslovakia as it was when I went to school, and have to readjust to Czech Republic - now 'Czechia' may be easier for me. I'm not so sure about the BBC though!


----------



## joen_cph

Here's one of the more peculiar, local preferences as regards the spelling


----------



## Highwayman

So far Austria - N. Macedonia game is very entertaining. Certainly one of the better matches.


----------



## Knorf

Malx said:


> Thanks for putting me right Knorf - truth be told I still think of Czechoslovakia as it was when I went to school, and have to readjust to Czech Republic - now 'Czechia' may be easier for me. I'm not so sure about the BBC though!


Well, since the split in 1993, "Czechoslovakia" is definitely wrong; Slovakia is an independent nation now. "The Czech Republic" isn't wrong, just cumbersome. "Czechia" is elegant.


----------



## Knorf

joen_cph said:


> Here's one of the more peculiar, local preferences as regards the spelling
> 
> View attachment 156270


Č is a Czech letter that corresponds more or less to the hard "Ch" (as in "church") in English.


----------



## joen_cph

Yes, this however is combined with English words ... their Czech name seems to be 

Čechův Flétnový Soubor


----------



## Kiki

Highwayman said:


> So far Austria - N. Macedonia game is very entertaining. Certainly one of the better matches.


A fiery contest. Very entertaining indeed.

Unlike the England/Croatia game which I found more professional than entertaining, apart from a moment of absolute brilliance from Kalvin Phillips feeding Raheem Sterling who showed up for 3 seconds in the game to score.


----------



## perempe

Highwayman said:


> So far Austria - N. Macedonia game is very entertaining. Certainly one of the better matches.


Just as expected, the match I miss is the best. I couldn't watch it anyway as the Djokovic - Tsitsipas final ended about in the 70th minute of Austria's match, started simultaneously with England's match, it lasted about 4 hours and 10 minutes. Might watch the highlights.


----------



## Art Rock

Netherlands - Ukraine halftime. To quote the BBC web site: "How is this still 0-0?"

The best game of 'Oranje" I've seen in years, but nothing to show for it yet.


----------



## Merl

Dumfries' miss was terrible. My cat could have scored that. Great win for England today, btw. Nice to see Sterling playing so well, too.


----------



## Malx

Dumfries Stirling whats with all these Scottish towns??


----------



## Malx

Merl said:


> Dumfries' miss was terrible. My cat could have scored that. Great win for England today, btw. Nice to see Sterling playing so well, too.


Merl - to answer your query on another thread - no I wasn't supporting Croatia today. My mother was from the N East of England and she and my father (Scottish) crossed the border to live in Fife just days before I was born - so my hertitage decrees I have no dislike for the English football team until they face the auld enemy that is :devil:.

Also the pragmatist in me believes if England beat both Croatia and Czechia we will have a better chance of progressing from the group.


----------



## joen_cph

Art Rock said:


> Netherlands - Ukraine halftime. To quote the BBC web site: "How is this still 0-0?"
> 
> The best game of 'Oranje" I've seen in years, but nothing to show for it yet.


With 10 mins left of this excellent, well-played match, it's 2-2. I have sympathies for both teams & hope it will be a draw


----------



## Art Rock

Well, that was highly entertaining - and satisfactory.


----------



## joen_cph

In the end, the Dutch victory was deserved, since it was the better team.


----------



## Highwayman

Easily the most entertaining match yet and Yarmolenko`s stunner is my candidate for the best goal thus far.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Great game for the neutral (and Ukraine's first goal was a stonker, even with today's ping-pong ball) but some of the defending was so lame it was like watching West Brom.


----------



## Vronsky

Even though the Dutch team has quality, I think they have one of the worst coaches on the tournament. As a Inter Milan fan, I remember him very well. 

And I can't understand him why he insist playing 5-3-2, he has perfect players to play 4-3-3.


----------



## Kiki

That was a glorious goal from Yarmolenko!

To be fair I think the Ukraine goalkeeper Bushchan also made a fantastic save and in general had a very good game; except for the third Dutch goal which he should have saved.

By the way, after the rollercoaster of this game, Copa America's opening game, Brazil v Venezuela, is looking rather underwhelming… and I am disappointed there hasn't been a single quadruple Axel from Nymer so far (horizontally, on the grass of course)!


----------



## Merl

Vronsky said:


> Even though the Dutch team has quality, I think they have one of the worst coaches on the tournament. As a Inter Milan fan, I remember him very well.
> 
> And I can't understand him why he insist playing 5-3-2, he has perfect players to play 4-3-3.


If they play anyone with a good defence and forward line they'll get mashed. Some of the positioning of the Dutch defenders was woeful. Not much they could do about Yarmelenko's barnstormer though.


----------



## Art Rock

Merl said:


> Some of the positioning of the Dutch defenders was woeful.


Unlike say France or Germany, us Dutch will always lack top quality in depth (a simple matter of numbers). France 3 would probably have qualified for the Euros in their own right.

We were missing two of the top defenders in the world, van Dijk and de Ligt. Fortunately de Ligt will be back the next game.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Knorf said:


> FWIW, the Czechs actually do want their country to be called Czechia, as their official "short name." I don't know why the English-speaking world is so slow to catch on. Of course one can keep using the long name, "the Czech Republic," but I personally think "Czechia" is lovely.
> 
> In other news, good on England for holding it together this morning against Croatia!


Well, the Czech Government have recommended the name "Czechia", as the best translation of "česko", with a capital C (which I can't find on my work laptop!). Personally I think the name is ungainly and ugly and will continue to use "Czech Republic"....

Good win against Scotland, mind. Didn't think much of Patrik Schick before today......


----------



## Malx

Headless Chickens 0 - 2 Czech Republic


----------



## Highwayman

Malx said:


> Headless Chickens 0 - 2 Czech Republic


I was neutral beforehand but I rooted for the Scotsmen for the majority of the game. Heartbreaking stuff because their chance of advance has waned significantly now and this passionate team deserved better methinks. I think things might have turned out differently if they started with Adams and Nisbet instead of Christie and *****. Particularly ***** played very poorly imo.


----------



## Merl

I had to watch the first half of the Scotland game with a class of rabid Scotland fans (well I do teach in Scotland) but apart from a few chances Scotland were clueless. Poor choice to play ***** ahead of Adams. One is a proven EPL striker and the other is a second-rate journeyman. The 2nd goal was an absolute farce. Shocking goalkeeping. You can't fault the finish but you shouldn't be getting beat by a shot from the other half of the field. Very poor.im sure they'll play much better against us on Friday. McGinn had a really poor game too but Scotland's biggest problem is the centre of defence. Hanley is a terrible defender.


----------



## Knorf

CnC Bartok said:


> Well, the Czech Government have recommended the name "Czechia", as the best translation of "česko", with a capital C (which I can't find on my work laptop!). Personally I think the name is ungainly and ugly and will continue to use "Czech Republic"....


More than a "recommendation," it's the actual official short name.

Out of curiosity, do you have issues with "Slovakia"? Or do you insist on "Slovak Republic"? What about "Bulgaria"? Do you insist on "Bulgar Republic"? (Ok, for that one I'm being silly.) Are you someone who insists on saying "THE Ukraine" instead of the proper, simply "Ukraine"?


----------



## Merl

This Poland game is a strange one. Slovakia seem an odd side.


----------



## Kiki

Thought Andy Robertson had a good game... but I'm biased.

The thing that I found most impressive about Schick's stunner is that he was being closed down when he pulled the trigger, so it's not like he had all the time in the world.


----------



## Malx

Merl said:


> I had to watch the first half of the Scotland game with a class of rabid Scotland fans (well I do teach in Scotland) but apart from a few chances Scotland were clueless. Poor choice to play ***** ahead of Adams. One is a proven EPL striker and the other is a second-rate journeyman. The 2nd goal was an absolute farce. Shocking goalkeeping. You can't fault the finish but you shouldn't be getting beat by a shot from the other half of the field. Very poor.im sure they'll play much better against us on Friday. McGinn had a really poor game too but Scotland's biggest problem is the centre of defence. Hanley is a terrible defender.


As I suggested in an earlier post Scotland have a natural finisher but because he doesn't run around like an idiot he is unlikely to get the backing of the majority of the fans a lot of whom just don't understand the finer points of the game.
The Czechs stifled our midfield effectively - McGinn was man marked out of the game - as we couldn't pass through the middle and with a 5-3-1-1 set up (I think) we resorted to lumping the ball up field to an ineffective targetman who was supposedly supported by a number 10 whose positioning was awful. Any opportunities created came from Robertson but it seemed to me that the Czechs managed to cut that source in the second half.
Hopefully Clarke will have a master plan which he will reveal on Friday


----------



## annaw

The Sweden-Spain game was almost frustratingly amusing. I was supporting Sweden (go Nordics!), and I think there's reason to be at least proud that Spain didn't manage to get a single goal. It started looking particularly weird when Swedish players began falling down one after another during the second half, and managed to get their 6 minutes of additional time to spend away kicking the ball as far as possible almost every time they got it.

I think Isak was very impressive and clever, but it’s still a pity that Zlatan is injured and not on the team .


----------



## Highwayman

I really do not understand why Marcus Berg still gets the chance. I literally cannot recall any good performances by him. I think they should have started with Quaison instead. But anyway, they should be happy with the result and hopefully Kulusevski will be on the pitch for the next game.


----------



## Art Rock

I decided not to watch any of the games yesterday. I did see the long distance goal of the Czechs, as it is everywhere on the net. Today France-Germany is a must of course.


----------



## perempe

Art Rock said:


> I decided not to watch any of the games yesterday. I did see the long distance goal of the Czechs, as it is everywhere on the net. Today France-Germany is a must of course.


I found that goal here under VIDEÓK, MÉRKŐZÉSEK means full matches. (Don't know if it's available outside Hungary.)
You won't find highlights in good quality on YouTube.

That goal was after a big mistake, an intercepted shot, and the keeper was far away from the goal line.
Isak hit the post twice with one shot which is pretty rare.


----------



## perempe

Art Rock said:


> Today France-Germany is a must of course.


Could be Arab League-Turkey...


----------



## perempe

one of the biggest own goals ever...


----------



## perempe

Deschamps is a James Woods look-alike.


----------



## annaw

Agghh, this match was so frustrating to watch. I was really rooting for Germany .

Edited to add: The mentality of the German team was admirable though (especially after having seen the terrible psychological destruction of Hungarians right before), and it was wonderful to see Neuer in action. A truly amazing goalkeeper!


----------



## Highwayman

Sorry to say this, but I hope French team will not win this tournament. They have become real snobby with their game. Yes, they play a decent game and often get the results they want but they do not outplay their opponents in a fashion similar to what Germany did to Brazil back in 2014. Correct me if I`m wrong but I don`t remember any German players taunting their opponents they utterly destroyed that day.


----------



## Art Rock

It was a bit disappointing all in all - Germany will have huge problems even qualifying for the next round based on their performance, and I'm still not convinced France will win it. Amazing though how Pogba in the French team plays so much better than in Man United.


----------



## Kiki

Despite the result, I think Germany contained Benzema and Mbappé rather well. And I didn't know Griezmann the _defensive midfielder_ (how stranger!) was such a hardworker!

BTW, anyone saw the Ronaldo drink-water act at the press conference? I like that.


----------



## Art Rock

Kiki said:


> BTW, anyone saw the Ronaldo drink-water act at the press conference? I like that.


Yes, but very hypocritical, given that he personally appeared in advertisements for KFC, McDonalds, and.... Coca Cola.


----------



## Art Rock

Today's games... meh. Maybe I'll watch Italy-Switzerland.


----------



## Kiki

Art Rock said:


> Yes, but very hypocritical, given that he personally appeared in advertisements for KFC, McDonalds, and.... Coca Cola.


True! Did he do those when he was young? He doesn't _have to_ do those ads anymore, whether he sill _wants_ that money I don't know. Or maybe there is some spat behind the scene that we don't know about. Or maybe he wasn't happy he was being filmed with two bottles of Coke without getting paid!! But the message itself, if we take it as what it is, I like it. I drink only water these days, OK maybe a glass of red wine at a party, no more than that. I couldn't express more how good my body feels.


----------



## Highwayman

I`m genuinely saddened by Finland`s loss. I think they played very good and deserved at least a tie. If Pohjanpalo`s early goal was not disallowed they might have easily won this because of their defense and counter-attack skills. I hope they can get a point from the Belgians but that`s not going to be easy.


----------



## Art Rock

Italy is on fire. Turkey and Switzerland may not be title contenders but they tend to be tough nuts to crack, and they were both completely outplayed. Clearly one of the favourites.


----------



## Merl

I'm just hoping Germany don't qualify from their group. Don't worry, I'm not turning xenophobic but I got a great price on a bet pre-tourmament and it will be worth a few quid if they and the other teams I picked not to qualify dont make it to the next round.


----------



## Art Rock

Just finished watching Denmark-Belgium. A tense game, kudos to the Danes for their play, and Belgium may not have been impressive, but they got the job done - one of the marks of the potential champions.

If Denmark play like this in the final game of the group they should beat Russia, and as long as Belgium does what they should do (beat Finland), the Danes would still go through.


----------



## joen_cph

A much better performing Danish team this time, compared to the exceptional circumstances affecting the first game. If one or two of the many goal chances had succeeded, it would have been a draw or even a Danish victory. It was like watching the entertaining team of the 80s with Elkjær, Michael Laudrup, Arnesen, Simonsen and the other personalities back then. The very young Damsgaard did impressively well, seems very Laudrup-inspired.

Interesting how the Danish coach let those who got a warning off the field quite immediately.


----------



## Merl

Belgium looked great going forward in the second half (KDB was magnificent) but they still looked creaky in defence. Some intereresting games coming up in the knockout stages. I'll be watching my boys take on the Scots tomorrow night. Should be a good game. Scotland always raise their game against us. It's weird cos I work in a Scottish school and I genuinely want Scotland to qualify from the group (they've suffered so much over the years) but don't want them to beat us. If only they'd beaten the Czechs rather than imploding.


----------



## Highwayman

An admirable performance by the Danish team. They dominated the game against one of the favourites of the tournament. If it wasn`t for De Bruyne they might have got their 3-points today. I have no doubt that they can win against Russia if they play like this. I know it won`t be that easy but I hope both of the Nordic teams in this group can advance alongside the Belgians.


----------



## Kiki

I like Yaremchuk's goal in the Ukraine/N.Macedonia game. When you're facing the goalkeeper and he has his near post covered, as good goalkeepers do, what do you do? Go for the far post? No, swerve the shot into the near post corner! That's an attitude to have. :lol:


----------



## Art Rock

A rather straightforward victory put the Netherlands in the next round (from admittedly a rather weak group). Wijnaldum and de Jong were strong in midfield and Dumfries is increasing his market value with every game.


----------



## Art Rock

Kiki said:


> BTW, anyone saw the Ronaldo drink-water act at the press conference? I like that.


I came across this one today.


----------



## Highwayman

An important win for Sweden. I think they deserved it with their game in the 2nd half. They might not be the most creative team but their defensive skills are impressive. Danielsson and Augustinsson in particular played really well today. Isak has proved his talent but I think he still has quite a way to go to become a top player. They won so I guess Andersson`s tactic for today`s game has worked but I still do not think Berg deserves to be on the starting squad, or on any squad really. :lol:


----------



## Art Rock

England - Scotland, halftime. Stones should have scored (but kudos for his Ronaldoesque jump), but overall the Scots were certainly not less than the English. Kane looks tired.


----------



## Art Rock

Well, that was an entertaining 0-0. That should be enough to qualify for the next round for the Czechs and England (both on 4 points) - even if one of the others catch up with the loser of that game, 4 points should be enough to make it as one of the better #3's.

Scotland-Croatia is a game to watch - both teams must win, as a draw would most likely mean they're both out as bad #3's.


----------



## Malx

What a difference one player can make to a team.
Kieran Tierney is fit again so comes in at left centre back of a three which allows Scotland to play with two wingbacks, three midfielders and two forwards - what a difference from Monday night against the Czech Republic.

Oh and we were playing England which has a wee bit of influence on the Scots mentality. 0-0 is hardly a great result but it is better than most people had us down for.

As Art says the Croatia game should be a cracker win or bust for both teams.


----------



## Merl

England pathetic tonight due to Southgate's negative tactics. 2 defensive midfielders against a Scotland team playing 5 across midfield to stifle us. The best English left back still can't get a game (Chilwell) and he plays Fatty Shaw, instead. Declan Rice was abysmal, Sterling is really out of form and played awful and yet Southgate waits for an hour to bring Grealish on and then takes off our most creative player, Foden, (who he's been playing out of position all tournament) instead of taking off Rice or Sterling. What a boring man Southgate is. Slow build-ups and clueless tactics. Congrats to Scotland for playing out of their skins but I think our school team could have got a result against England tonight.

PS if Marcus Rashford can play for England then so can I


----------



## Roger Knox

Art Rock said:


> I came across this one today.


I don't follow football but it does seem that Ronaldo always gets the attention. A friend and I watched the 2016 European Championship in a bar. What I remember after Portugal won is Ronaldo going around with his shirt off and the women in the bar swooning.


----------



## elgar's ghost

England again looking like they are all pitchfork and precious little hay. Maybe Southgate thinks that they will progress as long as they can bore the opposition to death. No disrespect to Scotland who doggedly stuck to their task, but if England want to be taken seriously as contenders they will need to dramatically raise (and vary) their game against stronger sides than that.


----------



## Merl

A day later and I'm still fuming at that ridiculous managerial performance. Two defensive midfielders playing from a squad full of fine attacking midfielders. A display of tactical ineptitude not seen in English football since the days of Fat Sam and his lump-it-up-to-the-big-guy mentality or Mark Hughes' play-every-player-out-of-position style of play. Safegate is a tool.


----------



## Malx

elgars ghost said:


> England again looking like they are all pitchfork and precious little hay. Maybe Southgate thinks that they will progress as long as they can bore the opposition to death. No disrespect to Scotland who doggedly stuck to their task, but if England want to be taken seriously as contenders they will need to dramatically raise (and vary) their game against stronger sides than that.


Sadly for England's sake I believe that there is still a little arrogance around the squad - do they believe the tabloids who persist in hyping them up everytime a tournament comes round. Rio Ferdinand more or less suggested before the game all that England had to do was turn up last night as the gulf between to sides was so great.
Attitude has to be right as well as ability - but maybe Scotland have done them a favour with an early reminder that their name isn't already on the trophy.


----------



## perempe

Hungary - France 1:0 (halftime)


----------



## elgar's ghost

Malx said:


> _Rio Ferdinand more or less suggested before the game all that England had to do was turn up last night_


There were plenty enough underwhelming performances from England when Ferdinand himself was in the team, and I don't recall there being anything special about him either. I take your point about the tabloids - they come out with the same hopeful guff each time while sharpening their knives in readiness for the inevitable exit. As for Southgate, well, England got him on the cheap anyway as he was promoted from within but I can't think of another so-called top-rank country who have elevated so many managers who hardly set the world alight at club level.


----------



## Highwayman

I heartily congratulate the Hungarian team for their courage. They did not "park the bus" when they had the score they wanted. They played very positively and got a respectable 1-point at the end against the reigning world champions. I also thank them for fulfilling my prediction from #5.


----------



## Malx

elgars ghost said:


> There were plenty enough underwhelming performances from England when Ferdinand himself was in the team, and I don't recall there being anything special about him either. I take your point about the tabloids - they come out with the same hopeful guff each time while sharpening their knives in readiness for the inevitable exit. As for Southgate, well, England got him on the cheap anyway as he was promoted from within but I can't think of another so-called top-rank country who have elevated so many managers who hardly set the world alight at club level.


With regard to Englands choice of managers - I've always had this belief that what you need to be a good international manager is the respect of the high quality players in the squad, the ability to organise a team from the players available to you - remember you cannot go out and buy the players you wish. Most of Englands recent choices have not really ticked either of those boxes - Southgate is a nice guy (by most reports) doesn't rock the FA's boat and is probably relatively cheap to run, has a squad that is as good as any I can remember _but_ doesn't seem to have the nouse to get put out a balanced team that uses their qualities to maximum advantage.
But good club manager doesn't always equate to good international manager.


----------



## Kiki

Highwayman said:


> I heartily congratulate the Hungarian team for their courage. They did not "park the bus" when they had the score they wanted. They played very positively and got a respectable 1-point at the end against the reigning world champions. I also thank them for fulfilling my prediction from #5.


If it wasn't for a moment of horror from the two centre backs, Hungary could have won the game. A well deserved point!


----------



## Art Rock

Well done Hungary. 

And now for something completely different: Germany leads 4-1 against Portugal. Did not see that coming at all.

One of the best players in the German team is Robin Gosens - who could also have chosen to play for the Netherlands.


----------



## Art Rock

Spain choking again, now against Poland, setting up an exciting last day in that group!

Today the final decisions in group A. If Italy and Wales settle for a draw they're both through - but even if Italy wins, Wales will likely qualify (as #2 or one of the best #3's). Switzerland-Turkey should be interesting, as a draw would eliminate both from the tournament, while a Swiss win would probably see them through, and a Turkey win gives them a small chance to go through.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Malx said:


> _But good club manager doesn't always equate to good international manager._


I take your point - Don Revie certainly proved that.


----------



## Dimace

At the end the Germans win! :lol: Fantastic performance against Portugal. Nuclear football. I like also Italy, which came with less known players and is doing very well. France, on the papers, has the best team, but until now is unimpressive. England, after David and Wayne has no more big players. Is doing team work but this isn't enough.


----------



## Knorf

It's a bad idea to read too much into the group stages, but I take back my swipe against Italia. Oops, I'm sorry: I mean The Ital Republic. :devil:

But seriously, I swiped at them as not likely to play the "best, most interesting and exciting football" this tournament, and well, they have.


----------



## Kiki

I started the evening with the Italy/Wales game on the big monitor and the Switzerland/Turkey game on my tiny phone. Mistake. All the stunners have been in the Switzerland/Turkey game so far. :lol:


----------



## Art Rock

Turkey had a shocker of a tournament. Can't believe the Dutch lost 4-2 against them a few weeks ago for the FIFA world cup qualifications. Wales and probably Switzerland go through, but I can't see them win in the next round. Italy could go all the way.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Knorf said:


> It's a bad idea to read too much into the group stages, but I take back my swipe against Italia. Oops, I'm sorry: I mean The Ital Republic. :devil:
> 
> But seriously, I swiped at them as not likely to play the "best, most interesting and exciting football" this tournament, and well, they have.


I wonder if Italy would have been so bold without home advantage for the group stage and quarter final? Nevertheless, it's certainly a pleasure to see them play attractive football - for many years now they have had all the talent they could hope for but have so rarely been associated with playing in such a fluid way.


----------



## Highwayman

This is an epic failure for the Turkish team! National media has been boosting the expectations of the public for many weeks and the Turkish State has provided unprecedented amounts of bonuses for each player before the tournament. Almost all of the players acted in several national TV advertisements. Oh, and let me remind you all that half of the players are playing in the clubs from "Big Five" and the current estimated value of the team is 325 mil. € (according to Transfermarkt.com). It is 35 millions more than the value of the Swiss team and nearly twice as big as the Welsh team. So this is not a usual failure of the Turkish team but it has almost become a nationwide scandal for Turkey. That being said, I`m utterly delighted by these results as I do not believe this country deserves any better not in football nor in any other subjects. And I`m definitely sure that the results would have been used as propaganda devices for the next elections if they were anything good. I hope this is not too much political for this thread, I`ll stop now. :lol:


----------



## Art Rock

Oranje is cruising having already qualified as group winner. More important for us which #3 we'll be facing in the round of 16. Most likely....


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock, yep, that's just what a Group of Death does to a tournament... A #3 slips through that probably would have been a #1 in most other groups!


----------



## Art Rock

Unfortunate timing to get quoted at BBC Sports, Gerry....


----------



## Art Rock

What a dramatic minute that was - Denmark leading 2-0, the referee mistakenly does not show a second yellow card to a Russian defender, the crowd roars for Belgium taking the lead against Finland, Russia get a very soft penalty which they convert and the VAR rules out the Belgian goal.... A complete nightmare.

Enormous respect for the Danes that they overcame these blows and went on to win 4-1, kudos to Belgium for still doing their fair play duty and eliminating Finland. Denmark goes through, and Russia will almost certainly join Finland in exiting the tournament.


----------



## Highwayman

What a story it has been for Denmark so far! They might not be the best team in the tournament but they are showing great "bottle" and I hope they can go the distance. I`m not so happy for the Finns as I`m with the Danes but I think they also fought well considering their humble squad.


----------



## Dimace

I really like the Oranje! Memphis Depay is a heck of a player. Belgium is also strong. Lukaku is a real PANZER: Great striker.


----------



## Kiki

The Czech Republic and England are in fact through. The worst case for either of them is to finish third, but with 4 points, the loser will get through as one of the four best 3rd-placed teams. Therefore I'm going to put the Croatia/Scotland game on the big monitor instead. Whoever wins this game will go through either as 2nd-placed or one of the best 3rd-placed. A draw will see both out. This is a must-win game!


----------



## elgar's ghost

Kiki said:


> _The Czech Republic and England are in fact through. The worst case for either of them is to finish third, but with 4 points, the loser will get through as one of the four best 3rd-placed teams._


Just because there is less at stake I hope this won't be a cue for England to be as dull as they were in the previous two games.


----------



## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> ...and Russia will almost certainly join Finland in exiting the tournament.


I thought that with both on 3 points, the result of Russia-Finland would be the tiebreaker - apparently not, as I see Finland listed as #3 in this group (because it was a three way tie with Denmark, the ranking 2-4 is based on the total goals scored and conceded). Still most likely on their way out.


----------



## Kiki

What is Finland's chance?

Among the finished groups, 
Group A: Switzerland has already taken one of the four 3rd-placed spots; 
Group C: The Ukraine is on 3 point, GD -1;
Group B: Finland is on 3 points, GD -2; behind the Ukraine.

There are three best 3rd-placed spots left; and there are 3 groups to play.

Group F: It's highly unlikely that BOTH Germany and Portugal will lose by 4 goals respectively. If not, then one of the four teams in this group will take a best 3rd-placed spot.

Therefore assume there are only two spots left.

Group D: A draw between Scotland and Croatia will have both ending up with 2 points. This is the only scenario where no team in this group will take up a best 3rd-placed spot.

In which case the Ukraine will take a best 3rd-placed spot, ahead of Finland.

Group E: If Spain lose to Slovakia or Slovakia lose to Spain by 3 goals, AND, Poland draw or lose to Sweden, then the 3rd-place team will be behind Finland either on points or on goal difference.

In which case Finland can take the last best 3rd-placed spot.

Is it possible? They need a lot bad fortune from others.

Unless I'm very much mistaken. :lol:


----------



## Kiki

elgars ghost said:


> Just because there is less at stake I hope this won't be a cue for England to be as dull as they were in the previous two games.


I'd hate a dull game. But the winner of this group will play the runner-up of the group of death, so it could be France, Germany, Portugal, or Hungary. I wouldn't blame Gareth Southgate if he weren't keen on winning the group, but he seems like a man of integrity, so I hope he will try to win. Whether his team could deliver is a different matter.


----------



## perempe

Czech Republic-England? A draw would be good for both sides.


----------



## Art Rock

Watching Croatia - Scotland. A draw would be bad for the Netherlands, as that would increase the chance of facing the #3 from the Group of Death as next opponent. A draw would also be the end of the tournament for both of these teams, so that is fortunately the least likely outcome.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Exclusive: Harry Kane in two shots on goal shock!


----------



## Art Rock

Croatia just went 3-1 ahead and unless there's a Scottish miracle, Croatia is in the next round. If things stay the way they are, even as #2 of this group.


----------



## Kiki

Croatia did finish second in Group D! Luka Modrić did it again. Heartbreaking for Scotland. They put up a good fight.


----------



## Merl

Another non-convincing display from 'Safegate' and Co. but Saka was a big plus. Walker and rest of defence had an excellent game. I'm desperately hoping he plays one holding midfielder (not Rice) for the knockouts and let's all our attacking midfielders loose cos let's face it, unless we get Hungary from 'Group Death' we' ll be out anyway, otherwise. I'm desperate for him to play Mount, Grealish and Foden at the same time but Southgate will try and kill the game and not concede instead (exit on penalties). He's obviously looked at how Greece and Portugal have won the competition in the past. Commiserations to Scotland. I've gotta go into a very deflated Scottiah workplace today. I feel for them.


----------



## Forster

England praised for first half attacking display and second half "shutting up shop and closing the game out."

If only they could close the game out like Denmark did against Russia.


----------



## Art Rock

Slovakia and Poland out. Apparently this means that the Netherlands will play Czechia in the next round and not as feared Portugal or another country from the Group of Death.

And Spain finally gets rolling - they mat still play a major role in this tournament.


----------



## Highwayman

What a huge success for Sweden as they complete the group stage at the first place ahead of the Spaniards. And what a match this was! IMO Lewandowski did everything that he could (maybe except when he hit the post twice in a single position at the first half) but even that couldn`t made the cut for Poland. I congratulate Andersson for finally coming up with the right starting squad. With Kuluševski added to the squad they will be a formidable opponent against any team they match.


----------



## Art Rock

What an apotheosis of the first round. Drama on both pitches - with wildly fluctuating virtual standings and consequences, and Germany desperately chasing Hungary who lead sensationally 1-0 (65th minute as I type). Cristiano Ronaldo becoming the joint top scorer in the history of men's international football is almost a footnote.


----------



## Art Rock

And 10 seconds later Germany scores.....

ETA and within a minute Hungary scores 2-1. This is madness.


----------



## mikeh375

ooooh crap, Germany again, byeeee England...

EDIT...this post would've had the same sentiment were it to be France or Portugal too....


----------



## Art Rock

What a night. Too bad for Hungary who still conceded a fatal second goal. France winner, Germany second, Portugal qualified as third.

The first knock-out round:

England - Germany
France - Switzerland
Netherlands - Czechia
Italy - Austria
Belgium - Portugal
Wales- Denmark

and I guess
Sweden - Ukraine
Spain - Croatia

Lots of interesting games!


----------



## Highwayman

Heartbroken for Hungary but they did an impressive job anyway. They almost ousted Germany out! 

Looks like England picked the most horrifying opponent they could possibly pick for the next round but they must earn it at some point if they want to win this tournament anyway, so why not now?


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> And Spain finally gets rolling...


And thus does Art Rock redefine the word "understatement."


----------



## Art Rock

The scheme for the rest of the tournament is a bit lopsided (not that I'm complaining - things could not have gone better for us).

One finalist comes from a group including world champion France, European champion Portugal, Belgium, Spain, and Croatia.
The other comes from a group including England, Germany and the Netherlands.


----------



## Kreisler jr

Does anyone remember how the group seeds could be so badly done to create a group of death with the reigning world champion, European champion and 2014 world champion in one group? (Especially as there was no other group with more than ONE decent team) Even Hungary was clearly better than several others that advanced with luck. Should not at least the reigning world and European champions been set so they couldn't end up in the same group?


----------



## Art Rock

From here:

Seeding for the draw is based purely on performance in qualifying for this tournament.

The six top seeds were England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium and ... Ukraine (who finished ahead of Portugal in their qualifying group).

Pot 1: Belgium, Italy, England, Germany, Spain, Ukraine
Pot 2: France, Switzerland, Croatia, Poland, Netherlands, Russia
Pot 3: Portugal, Turkey, Denmark, Austria, Sweden, Czech Republic
Pot 4: Wales, Finland, Playoff A, Playoff B, Playoff C, Playoff D


----------



## elgar's ghost

Oh, man...England v Germany again... It's like we're joined at the hip.


----------



## Merl

Bloody Germany cost us £100 on our work bet last night. We needed them to not qualify. Damn.  If Portugal hadn't qualified, too, it would have been £600 in winnings.


----------



## Kreisler jr

Art Rock said:


> From here:
> 
> Seeding for the draw is based purely on performance in qualifying for this tournament.
> 
> The six top seeds were England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium and ... Ukraine (who finished ahead of Portugal in their qualifying group).
> 
> Pot 1: Belgium, Italy, England, Germany, Spain, Ukraine
> Pot 2: France, Switzerland, Croatia, Poland, Netherlands, Russia
> Pot 3: Portugal, Turkey, Denmark, Austria, Sweden, Czech Republic
> Pot 4: Wales, Finland, Playoff A, Playoff B, Playoff C, Playoff D


Thanks, I was to lazy to research this.
Man, this is an utterly stupid mode to do it. Who cares for the bloody qualifying.. everyone is bound to goof a bit there. 
I thought they paid people millions to figure out how to do this best. I thought it had been based on some comprehensive ranking that could have explained Germany not being one of the top seeds because they did poorly in 2018 but I could not figure out how Portugal and France as reigning champions could not be top seeds.

Anyway, Germany didn't play great so far, but it should be sufficient for England...


----------



## Kiki

Should England be happy with getting an inconsistent German team that is also the weakest in recent times?

Or should Germany be happy with getting a group of young talents who carry an old curse of underachieving?

As a neutral, however, I'm looking forward to it. Hey, it's England vs Germany at Wembley, despite their poor form! Does it get bigger than this in the round of 16? I just hope it would not be a dull match.

I'm bored. No Euro match this evening. Today's Copa America match hasn't started yet. F1 weekend starts only tomorrow... then I stumbled on the Knockout Predictor at uefa.com. This is fun. How I wish Belgium and Italy were not in the same half.


----------



## Highwayman

Kiki said:


> I'm bored. No Euro match this evening.


I hear ya! So far Copa América has not been as rewarding as its European equivalent. The teams I`m supporting (Chile and Perú) are getting decent results but they are not playing very good IMO.

I presume the next couple of days will be boring but both _Tour de France_ and _MasterChef_ (the Turkish one) will begin this Saturday in addition to the round of 16. So, I feel the next few weeks will be like a roller-coaster ride for me thus I don`t mind a little boredom beforehand.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Merl said:


> Bloody Germany cost us £100 on our work bet last night. We needed them to not qualify. Damn.  If Portugal hadn't qualified, too, it would have been £600 in winnings.


And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle - come on Merl, you weren't even close on that one!!!


----------



## Merl

HenryPenfold said:


> And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle - come on Merl, you weren't even close on that one!!!


At one point we were up. Germany were lucky


----------



## Kiki

Highwayman said:


> I hear ya! So far Copa América has not been as rewarding as its European equivalent. The teams I`m supporting (Chile and Perú) are getting decent results but they are not playing very good IMO.
> 
> I presume the next couple of days will be boring but both _Tour de France_ and _MasterChef_ (the Turkish one) will begin this Saturday in addition to the round of 16. So, I feel the next few weeks will be like a roller-coaster ride for me thus I don`t mind a little boredom beforehand.


I share your sentiment.

Although Brazil and Argentina have been playing well, I think Copa America's group stage is underwhelming because 4 out of 5 teams in a group will progress, so apparently for most teams it is a pecking order fight to avoid Brazil/Argentina in the knockout stage. I hope it will get better in the knockout stage.

And since I feel bored, can I gossip about the substitution board used at the Euro and Copa America? Why is the LED board used at the Euro so big in size? The board used in Copa America is much smaller with a thin bezel, while the size of the LED digits looks similar. My non-European perception is that in general Europeans are not into "big", at least not as much as North Americans. On the other hand, I don't know if there is any difference in weight. From what I've seen, those 4th officials at the Euro didn't seem to struggle with the weight as in some of the top European leagues.


----------



## Pyotr

As long as Harry Maguire and Kyle Walker are healthy and on the field, England has a good a chance as any. 
At the other end of the field , I've never been a big Rashford fan, Harry Kane stinks(I know he won all those awards this year, but even a blind squirrel), Mount is ok.
I'm predicting a clean sheet for England against the Germans on Tuesday


----------



## juliante

Merl said:


> Belgium looked great going forward in the second half (KDB was magnificent) but they still looked creaky in defence. Some intereresting games coming up in the knockout stages. I'll be watching my boys take on the Scots tomorrow night. Should be a good game. Scotland always raise their game against us. It's weird cos I work in a Scottish school and I genuinely want Scotland to qualify from the group (they've suffered so much over the years) but don't want them to beat us. If only they'd beaten the Czechs rather than imploding.


There's me assuming you were scottish all along


----------



## Art Rock

Scary statistics ahead of Sunday's Netherlands - Czechia game: the Czechs have converted every single penalty they have taken in European and World Championships shoot-outs. 20 out of 20. The Dutch perform even worse than the English.


----------



## Art Rock

Today's games: 

Wales - Denmark (I expect this to be close, possibly overtime - Denmark slightly favourites for me)
Italy - Austria (Auf Wiedersehen. Easy win for Italy)

I plan to watch every game from now on, although likely on the laptop so I can do other stuff in parallel.


----------



## annaw

Denmark absolutely destroyed Wales . They really seem to be on a roll.


----------



## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> Today's games:
> 
> Wales - Denmark (I expect this to be close)


Nailed it. 

Seriously, assuming that 'we' will eliminate the Czechs, a quarterfinal against these Danes will be worrying.


----------



## Kiki

What a game. Didn't expect Denmark would win 4:0, but they were clinical and definitely deserved a big win. Wales started well, but lost their footing after the first goal and it went downhill from then on. What a pity.


----------



## perempe

Davies was afraid of the shot before the 1st goal, fell before the third goal, couldn't contest Maehle's shot. Williams failed to clear before the 2nd, got an assist.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Anyone think Austria might win this?


----------



## joen_cph

CnC Bartok said:


> Anyone think Austria might win this?


I wouldn't rule it out. But if Italy gets tail wind, Austria can loose big time.


----------



## CnC Bartok

joen_cph said:


> I wouldn't rule it out. But if Italy gets tail wind, Austria can loose big time.


I had Italy down as my tip for winners of the whole tournament, and I am still thinking I wasn't thinking stupid. But there's always a boring, well-organised team that takes out a favourite or two. Austria are no slouches.....


----------



## Art Rock

I missed the first half (gave priority to an after dinner walk with my wife), but I'm not impressed so far. Italy is not looking at all like a title contender.


----------



## joen_cph

Austria leading now, 1-0 ... with 25 minutes left.

Ouch, off-side says referee. Would like to see that again. But change to 0-0.


----------



## Art Rock

VAR rescues Italy though.........


----------



## perempe

Art Rock said:


> VAR rescues Italy though.........


VAR is a joke as the refs who leave all to VAR. We have different rules for lower leagues (no VAR)?


----------



## Art Rock

Extra time it is. Good news for the next opponent of the eventual winner of this match.


----------



## perempe

I probaby saw Hungary twice, one of them was against Italy in 1996. Our school made a trip to Budapest, I was allowed to go the match with a classmate. That Italy squad won 0:2 with the lineup of Peruzzi, Torricelli, Costacurta, Maldini, Carboni, Di Livio, Di Matteo, Albertini, Del Piero, Casiraghi & Ravanelli.

Aranyos was a substitute who started his career in local club Eger.


----------



## Art Rock

Italy are now up 2-0 - there's no way back for Austria in the remaining 15 minutes.


----------



## annaw

Austria put up a really good fight! I at least wasn't expecting such an endgame at all. Hinteregger was totally on fire and Bachmann made impressive saves. But I like the Italian team a lot as well, so I'm not particularly saddened by the fact that they'll continue.

This tournament in overall has been totally unpredictable, to me, at least. I'm immensely looking forward to the Enigland-Germany game next Tuesday. Having no national obligation, I'll be supporting Germany - I admire their character (and I really like Neuer and Müller).


----------



## perempe

Alaba might be one of the best players, but it's strange to see him in the Austria national football team for me.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Forza azzurri!!!!!!


----------



## elgar's ghost

HenryPenfold said:


> Forza azzurri!!!!!!


Harrumph........


----------



## HenryPenfold

elgars ghost said:


> Harrumph........


Now you've cleared your throat, you can shout Forza Azzurri !!!! :tiphat:


----------



## Pyotr

*Team	Odds to win*
France 4.2/1
Italy	6/1
England 6.5/1
Germany 7/1
Spain 7/1
Netherlands 9/1
Belgium 10/1
Portugal 14/1
Denmark 20/1
Sweden 50/1
Croatia 60/1
Czech Republic 100/1
Switzerland 100/1
*Wales 100/1*
Ukraine 125/1
*Austria 150/1*


----------



## Highwayman

Has anyone else noticed how good the players from Atalanta B.C. are doing in this tournament? Players like Gosens, Mæhle and Pessina are among the best players of the tournament so far imo. I also think Freuler, de Roon, Miranchuk and Tolói played very decently when they had the chance to play. The only Atalantan I can think of who has not played his best is perhaps Malinovskyi but he still has the chance to compensate for his past performances. Kudos to Gasperini for building up this impressive team from scratch!


----------



## Art Rock

And so it ends (most likely): the Dutch with 10 against 11 Czechs, and 0-1.


----------



## Art Rock

Quarter final Denmark - Czechia, so we'll have at least one surprise team in the semi's. Congrats to the Czechs.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Art Rock said:


> Quarter final Denmark - Czechia, so we'll have at least one surprise team in the semi's. Congrats to the Czechs.


You Dutch really don't like playing the Czechs......

The Czech Republic have surpassed all my hopes and expectations. They were superb today.

Medelijden


----------



## Art Rock

CnC Bartok said:


> You Dutch really don't like playing the Czechs......


True that - we have a horrible record against them.


----------



## Kiki

In a way it was a frustrating game of football, because both teams were not precise enough, almost casual, in the final third. The red card did change the complexion of the game; but at the end it was the first quality cross of the day that produced the first goal, followed by the only quality strike for the second. I hope the Belgium/Portugal game will fare better.


----------



## perempe

I support neighbouring countries Croatia, Ukraine plus the Czech Republic.
I saw many Milan matches from the Shevchenko era, hope he'll be at least half as successful as a manager as he was as a player.


----------



## Art Rock

Belgium 1-0 up against Portugal, but now they lost Kevin de Bruyne due to an ankle injury.


----------



## Eclectic Al

If Portugal don't come back I expect that Ronaldo will spontaneously combust. He always looks like he's about to.


----------



## Kiki

Um.. the game is getting a bit nasty now.


----------



## Art Rock

Well, that was not a good game, but highly entertaining. Belgium wins their first of four final-worthy encounters on their way to their first major prize. Go Belgium!


----------



## Knorf

Yeah, I was fairly impressed with Belgium's resiliency, and well entertained by an emotional and tense match. This means Belgium play Ital Republic next round. Good on Czechia to get by Netherlands. 

I admit I'm slightly saddened by departure of Austr Republic, although Ital Republic are still likely to last long in the tournament, and were the better side. 

Tomorrow I'd be impressed to see Croat Republic do well against the Spain. I don't see La France struggling with Die Schweiz, but you never know...


----------



## CnC Bartok

Knorf said:


> Yeah, I was fairly impressed with Belgium's resiliency, and well entertained by an emotional and tense match. This means Belgium play Ital Republic next round. Good on Czechia to get by Netherlands.
> 
> I admit I'm slightly saddened by departure of Austr Republic, although Ital Republic are still likely to last long in the tournament, and were the better side.
> 
> Tomorrow I'd be impressed to see Croat Republic do well against the Spain. I don't see La France struggling with Die Schweiz, but you never know...


Interesting. Incidentally, I understand most Czechs prefer "Czech Republic" over "Czechia", and Vaclav Havel disliked "Česko", but you've clearly got the bit between your teeth, so knock yerself out old chap....! :tiphat:


----------



## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> CnC Bartok said:
> 
> 
> 
> You Dutch really don't like playing the Czechs......
> 
> 
> 
> True that - we have a horrible record against them.
Click to expand...

Read this in the paper this morning: the Dutch received in total four red cards during the European championships over the years. Two against Czechoslovakia, two against Czechia.


----------



## TxllxT

CnC Bartok said:


> Interesting. Incidentally, I understand most Czechs prefer "Czech Republic" over "Czechia", and Vaclav Havel disliked "Česko", but you've clearly got the bit between your teeth, so knock yerself out old chap....! :tiphat:


Czech Republic refers to the Czech, Moravian & Silesian lands, while Česko or Czechia only refers to the area surrounding Prague. One may compare this to the difference between 'Holland' and 'The Netherlands'.


----------



## Art Rock

Wiki (my bolding): Czechia (/ˈtʃɛkiə/), the *official English short name specified by the Czech government*, is used by many international organisations.


----------



## Roger Knox

Art Rock said:


> Wiki (my bolding): Czechia (/ˈtʃɛkiə/), the *official English short name specified by the Czech government*, is used by many international organisations.


With no offence intended, to my English-hearing ears the sound of "Czechia" has a bit of a bite to it. Football teams everywhere beware!

Despite the disappointing EuroCup result I expect the Netherlands will be back -- soon.


----------



## Art Rock

I expect the Dutch team will be stronger at the world cup next year (if we qualify). A different coach, van Dijk back in defense, hopefully the highly talented (but frequently injured) Bijlow as goal keeper, and some of the (very) young potential stars like Frenkie de Jong, de Ligt, Gravenbergh, Timber and Rensch a year older and hopefully wiser.

Croatia - Spain should be interesting. So far, the 'names' have not fared too well in the knock-out phase, and Croatia could pull off a stunt.
France - Switzerland... no, I can't see anything but a simple win for France here.


----------



## Knorf

CnC Bartok said:


> Interesting. Incidentally, I understand most Czechs prefer "Czech Republic" over "Czechia", and Vaclav Havel disliked "Česko", but you've clearly got the bit between your teeth, so knock yerself out old chap....! :tiphat:


>whack< >thud<

No, I just found it funny, after you said "Personally I think [Czechia] is ungainly and ugly and will continue to use 'Czech Republic'," to think of the many country names that end in "ia" in their English translation and turn them into "...Republic." I.e., Bulgar Republic, Alban Republic, Bosn Republic, Serb Republic, Macedon Republic, etc. It makes me giggle a bit like a school boy. Immature, yes. Guilty.

Anyway, obviously "Czech Republic" is not wrong at all, if ungainly in truth to state often in a sentence, but it remains a fact that the nation has officially adopted "Czechia" as the short version of their country's name. This has been broadly adopted by organizations such as the UN, etc., but hilariously not by sports media, even though the use of "Czechia" is actually quite old and even predates the now-defunct Czechoslovakia.

But this is neither the time nor the place to discuss the history of national names, translations of names in other languages, or why there are some holdouts (yes, even in Czechia) who insist on only using the longer, ungainly name when speaking in English.

ETA: BACK TO FOOTBALL!!!!!! Go Croat Republic!


----------



## Kiki

I am no fan of Morata, and he has not been playing well, but I would really like to see him do well to silence the critics, and if the media is to be believed, the disgusting non-football abuse that he and his family has been getting.


----------



## joen_cph

For those interested, Denmark's first 3 games in Copenhagen's Parken stadium, with up to 25,000 spectators, saw the following number of registered virus-infected (testing is very comprehensive here and there have been 7x tests compared to Denmarks total population number):

Finland game: 8, incl. 1 delta
Belgium: 33, incl. 18 delta
Russia: 47, incl. 27 delta

Of course, there are unidentified cases too, and some might be the result of things happening in town or previously, but overall, these are considered quite modest rates. Experts will probably map the exact chains of infection later.


----------



## annaw

Simón .... what craziness was that?! Football is such a tragic game.


----------



## joen_cph

Spain - Croatia 0-1, due to a ginormous error by the Spanish keeper. Swedish television commentators say 'probably the worst keeper error in the whole history of that tournament'. 

Fun fact: in that situation, even I, and most TC'ers, would be a better keeper than the Spanish national one ...

Hoping the best for Spain though.


----------



## Art Rock

Fun fact: in all previous Euro's together, there were nine own goals. Spain's was the ninth own goal in this tournament alone.

Spain looks like they completely recovered from that disaster: they just went 2-1 ahead.


----------



## CnC Bartok

joen_cph said:


> Spain - Croatia 0-1, due to a ginormous error by the Spanish keeper. Swedish television commentators say 'probably the worst keeper error in the whole history of that tournament'.
> 
> Fun fact: in that situation, even I, and most TC'ers, would be a better keeper than the Spanish national one ...
> 
> Hoping the best for Spain though.


The Kingdom of Spain now 2-1 up against the Republic of Croatia angel: for knorf!) Sleepy defence both sides so far. That goal just now was not good from Croatia's point of view. True, there aren't as many spectators as usual, but the players don't need to augment their numbers, surely?


----------



## Knorf

Another stupid, immature thing I do (but only when it involves football), is to take countries whose names include usage such as "La France," or "La España," or "Die Schweiz" and restore the "the" in English. Hence, "The Spain," "The France," "The Switzerland." Please don't misunderstand: I absolutely _adore_ these countries. It's just me taking the ****, because football.

Go Croat Republic! Embarrass The Spain!


----------



## joen_cph

3-1 ... ... ... muy bien.


----------



## Art Rock

Knorf said:


> Another stupid, immature thing I do (but only when it involves football), is to take countries whose names include usage such as "La France," or "La España," or "Die Schweiz" and restore the "the" in English. Hence, "The Spain," "The France," "The Switzerland."


Fun fact: the correct English term for my country is The Netherlands - whereas we simply call it Nederland.


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> Fun fact: the correct English term for my country is The Netherlands - whereas we simply call it Nederland.


I _adore_ the Netherlands, too. Amazing country! Not necessarily their football team... (I really disliked Arjen Robben, regardless of how great he was, and Robin van Persie betrayed Arsenal, so screw him. But things are different now...)

ETA: one of the greatest experiences of my life was the one time I got to hear the Concertgebouworkest in the Concertgebouw, in 1996. The program was Schoenberg's Variations, Op. 31 and Bruckner's Fifth Symphony, conducted by Chailly. It was sensational!


----------



## Art Rock

After Croatia's 2-3, Spain had 6 more nervous minutes to endure.....


----------



## Art Rock

And 3-3.... what a game!

If only they had selected Sergio Ramos.... no way that he would have allowed such a header.


----------



## Knorf

Croatia have impressed me before... And I rate Oršić, especially after he scored that hat-trick against Spurs in the Europa League...


----------



## Art Rock

Morata of all people scores 4-3 with a beauty.

ETA: and now 5-3. Surely Croatia cannot come back again?


----------



## joen_cph

Good stamina by Spain and 5-3.


----------



## Knorf

Bummer. Can't see the Croat Republic coming back now. The Spain will park the bus.


----------



## Art Rock

That was one heck of a game. Kudos to Croatia for a great fight, kudos to Spain for overcoming the enormous setbacks.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Knorf said:


> Another stupid, immature thing I do (but only when it involves football), is to take countries whose names include usage such as "La France," or "La España," or "Die Schweiz" and restore the "the" in English. Hence, "The Spain," "The France," "The Switzerland." Please don't misunderstand: I absolutely _adore_ these countries. It's just me taking the ****, because football.
> 
> Go Croat Republic! Embarrass The Spain!


....and I must confess I still call it THE Ukraine. Sorry!


----------



## Knorf

Alright. Vive la France!


----------



## perempe

perempe said:


> I support neighbouring countries Croatia, Ukraine plus the Czech Republic.


I still have two teams.


----------



## joen_cph

France - Switzerland getting interesting. The effective Swiss in a lead, 1-0.


----------



## annaw

To be honest, it would be so madly cool if Switzerland beat France!!


----------



## joen_cph

Swedish commentators discussing whether the French are 'tired' or 'lack attitude'. 

Then: penalty for the Swiss, without goal.


----------



## Art Rock

And a few minutes later 1-1. How the turntables.

ETA: the more you see it the more you realize what a perfect display of skill that was by Benzema.


----------



## Art Rock

And a minute later 2-1 for France. Madhouse.


----------



## Knorf

France are mad with skill and talent. It's hardly a surprise...


----------



## Art Rock

Pogba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a goal. Why does he never play like this for Man U?


----------



## Knorf

Pogba's was pure class. Utterly gorgeous.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Art Rock said:


> Pogba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What a goal. Why does he never play like this for Man U?


Good question!

.........................


----------



## Art Rock

Late drama here as well after the Swiss pull one back?


----------



## Knorf

Seferofić! WOW. Game on!


----------



## Art Rock

And 3-3 in the last minute.....


----------



## Knorf

Incredible! Two stunning matches today. Wow, such entertainment!


----------



## Art Rock

What's happening here - Switzerland close to scoring in the dying seconds, and in the last second France hits the crossbar.

Would you like 30 minutes more? Yes please!


----------



## joen_cph

Yes, quite interesting ... ... ...


----------



## mikeh375

I'm too knackered to watch the rest of the France/Switzerland game so off to bed. I've been on our sofa since 5pm!!!!!!!


----------



## Knorf

I'm still for France, but credit as due: that Swiss comeback was impressive, as impressive as Croatia's against Spain!


----------



## Kiki

Game on! I'm rooting for the underdog now!


----------



## CnC Bartok

This game's really dull compared to the one earlier this evening.....:lol::lol:


----------



## Art Rock

Yes, this game is in desperate need of a goal.


----------



## Art Rock

Three minutes left, and a penalty shootout threatens to come our way. I get the feeling several players will be too tired to walk from the middle of the pitch to the penalty spot.


----------



## Art Rock

Fun fact: Switzerland has lost every penalty shootout they were in.


----------



## Knorf

Yay. Penalty shootout. Everyone's favorite way to resolve a football match. So it is.


----------



## Art Rock

Mbappe misses the deciding 5th. France out.

WOW!


----------



## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> France - Switzerland... no, I can't see anything but a simple win for France here.


Nailed it. :tiphat:


----------



## annaw

This whole tournament is utterly insane! Switzerland beating France is almost surreal!


----------



## HenryPenfold

Omfg!

Switzerland!! 

Wtf!


----------



## CnC Bartok

HenryPenfold said:


> Omfg!
> 
> Switzerland!!
> 
> Wtf!


Not that surprising to be honest. Some of the "little teams" - the Czechs, the Danes, the Austrians - have given the big boys a run for their money, so why not the Swiss....solid tactics seem to be the key to some successes, but there's an insane belief that it's not over till the fat lady sings, as in both games this evening.

Fascinating tournament. Still fancy boring old Italy, mind.......


----------



## HenryPenfold

CnC Bartok said:


> Not that surprising to be honest. Some of the "little teams" - the Czechs, the Danes, the Austrians - have given the big boys a run for their money, so why not the Swiss....solid tactics seem to be the key to some successes, but there's an insane belief that it's not over till the fat lady sings, as in both games this evening.
> 
> Fascinating tournament. Still fancy boring old Italy, mind.......


true

but I gotta be honest, I never saw that one coming

very happy, though :lol:


----------



## Highwayman

Highwayman said:


> Sorry to say this, but I hope French team will not win this tournament...


Thanks to the Swiss team my hope came true. :tiphat:

Today`s games were truly insane, and they have effectively reminded me of why I still watch football.


----------



## Kreisler jr

Highwayman said:


> Sorry to say this, but I hope French team will not win this tournament.


I fear now the Italians could win, the only team I want even more not to win it than the French...


----------



## mikeh375

Fear not Kreisler jr it's England all the way....."It's comin home, It's comi....oh hang on...WAKE UUUUPPPPP


----------



## elgar's ghost

Good for Switzerland - I don't feel for France at all as they've had enough success over the years, which is exactly how I would feel if Italy, Spain and/or Germany were knocked out. England's overall record in this tournament over the years is lamentable - never even reached a final - so history is against them anyway. At least England's head-to-head record against Germany since 2000 is far better than it was in the 30 years prior to that.


----------



## mikeh375

This England fan is getting a little nervy.


----------



## Art Rock

England - Germany will be an interesting game - even though it cannot reach the level of yesterday's magnificent matches. 

Sweden - Ukraine... the only game I will skip from this round. Not staying awake until after midnight for two nights in a row.

In other news, Dutch national coach Frank de Boer has resigned/was fired (probably a combination) after the disastrous loss against the Czechs. Unavoidable given the truckload of (justified) criticism on his decisions (squad selection, playing system, choices of substitutions), but the next world cup qualifying games will be soon upon us, so a decent experienced coach needs to step in soon (Louis van Gaal? Dick Advocaat?).


----------



## Knorf

I always cheer for England against anyone besides the USA, and am doing so today.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Knorf said:


> I always cheer for England against anyone besides the USA, and am doing so today.


Thank you kindly. 

Mind you, it's often an unrewarding choice.


----------



## Knorf

Eclectic Al said:


> Thank you kindly.
> 
> Mind you, it's often an unrewarding choice.


Oh, how well I know...


----------



## mikeh375

That first 45' against Germany was as stressful as staring at a blank manuscript after 45' of effort.


----------



## Art Rock




----------



## joen_cph

The former coach Sven Göran Eriksson said on Swedish television: 

'well, if you wanted to say something nice, both teams tended to have a well-developed focus on defense'.

They'd agree also that Germany seemed more direct when attacking.


----------



## Knorf

Right now, it's like watching slightly sped-up chess. 

But one might expect something to break through, soon. I still think it will be England.

ETA: soonish? Gah!


----------



## Art Rock

It's like they think that a 0-0 will see them both through....


----------



## Art Rock

AT LAST! Sterling scores.


----------



## Knorf

STERLING! Excellent goal!


----------



## Eclectic Al

Blow the whistle, ref.


----------



## Art Rock

How did Thomas Müller miss that?


----------



## Art Rock

... and now finally KANE does what he normally does. 2-0!


----------



## Knorf

KANE! Germany looking deflated.

ETA: superb cross from Grealish!


----------



## joen_cph

One can really see on the English crowds, how this means a real lot to them ...

Today, the Germans didn't have the efficiency to set up a real pressure after 0-1.


----------



## Eclectic Al

I'd still like the ref to blow the whistle.


----------



## Art Rock

Deserved in the end. Congrats England!


----------



## Knorf

Sure to go down as a famous victory for England. Congrats to all my English friends and fans of England!


----------



## annaw

Aghhhh, Die Mannschaft    !!! No, no, no.... Cannot believe that this was Löw’s last match and potentially Müller’s last national team game.

Germany was my favourite team (in addition to Finland). Considering that, this game was immensely depressing! Despite that, congrats to England!


----------



## mikeh375

*yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss*


----------



## Kiki

Nerve-racking game. Entertaining in a very different way. Congrats to England.


----------



## Knorf

annaw said:


> Aghhhh, Die Mannschaft    !!! No, no, no....


_Die Mannschaft_ will be back. Count on it. But maybe it's England's year this year.

I hope so!


----------



## HenryPenfold

annaw said:


> Cannot believe that this was Löw's last match and potentially Müller's last national team game.


Can't believe he's still playing. If it turns out to be his last game, all I can say is thanks for all those wonderful performances down the years, Gerd :cheers:


----------



## Kreisler jr

All three from the "group of death" out in the next round, incl. the incumbent European and World champions! 
England and Italy must be the favorites now. They should rather easily beat Sweden or Ukraine, and the next one will be Denmark or Czechia. I am puzzled that the tournament plan again managed to pitch several of the strongest contenders vs. each other either in the group of death or the first k.o. round, making one half WAY stronger than the other one.


----------



## Art Rock

The tournament set-up was going to be lopsided by the Group of death - the half that ended up with the #3 of that group (in this case Portugal) would be stronger. In addition, Spain failed to become the group winner, catapulting them to the left side of the scheme as well, and winner Sweden to the right side. If not, the left would have had Belgium, Italy, France, and Portugal, the right Spain, Germany, England, and the Netherlands - arguably an even division of pre-tournament favourites and main outsiders.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Art Rock said:


> The tournament set-up was going to be lopsided by the Group of death - the half that ended up with the #3 of that group (in this case Portugal) would be stronger. In addition, Spain failed to become the group winner, catapulting them to the left side of the scheme as well, and winner Sweden to the right side. If not, the left would have had Belgium, Italy, France, and Portugal, the right Spain, Germany, England, and the Netherlands - arguably an even division of pre-tournament favourites and main outsiders.


Exactly.

The worse example of teams not delivering earlier in the competition was the 1982 World Cup. Italy only escaped the preliminary stage on 'goals scored'. A 'group of death' resulted with Argentina, Brazil and Italy, the three most powerful teams on the planet, at the time. Italy went on to become world champions by thrashing West Germany in the final.


----------



## annaw

HenryPenfold said:


> Can't believe he's still playing. If it turns out to be his last game, all I can say is thanks for all those wonderful performances down the years, Gerd :cheers:


Indeed, indeed. German team has had a Müller for a long time now .



Knorf said:


> _Die Mannschaft_ will be back. Count on it. But maybe it's England's year this year.
> 
> I hope so!


Yeah, it's just a pity. I hope Germany will be back much stronger next year during the World Cup. At least Neuer was his usual amazing self tonight.

I have actually supported England generally throughout the tournament except in this particular game because Germany is still my ultimate favourite. It would be great if England won the tournament but I still hoped Germany would have pulled themselves together.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Psychologically that was a massive hurdle to get over in terms of actually beating the Germans in a knock-out game - the baggage associated with England's failure to do so since 1966 was getting heavier and heavier. I'm still not a fan of the way the team have played so far but to go four games without conceding a goal has its own merits, I suppose - and maybe by virtue of that everyone else will fancy playing England just that little bit less.


----------



## joen_cph

Well, hopefully England will also increase their entertainment value, if we are to watch three more games with them; they've now scored 4 goals totally, in 4 games.


----------



## elgar's ghost

joen_cph said:


> Well, hopefully England will also increase their entertainment value, if we are to watch three more games with them; they've now scored 4 goals totally, in 4 games.


I can't see it, Joen - I think England will only really open the taps if they go behind and have to chase the game.


----------



## Knorf

joen_cph said:


> Well, hopefully England will also increase their entertainment value, if we are to watch three more games with them; they've now scored 4 goals totally, in 4 games.


If scoring goals is all you think generates excitement, perhaps football is not the sport for you.

This was a fascinating, tense, tactical match, and history will likely view it that way. I couldn't take my eyes away!


----------



## Kreisler jr

HenryPenfold said:


> The worse example of teams not delivering earlier in the competition was the 1982 World Cup. Italy only escaped the preliminary stage on 'goals scored'. A 'group of death' resulted with Argentina, Brazil and Italy, the three most powerful teams on the planet, at the time. Italy went on to become world champions by thrashing West Germany in the final.


This was the first world cup, actually the first major international sports event I somewhat followed, I was only ten but I remember the incredibly exciting semifinal France - Germany. This was the Platini etc. team that for some reason only managed to get the 1984 EM champion and underperformed at Worlds.
But the modus back then was really not the best with the intermediate group. Later on, giving 3 points for victory was also a very sensible move. I also think it is rather ridiculous to eliminate only 1/3 of the teams in the group matches and that 16 was a sensible numer for European championships but apparently more teams is more money.


----------



## perempe

I love Sheva !!!

Many stupid goals: before the swiss keeper, a german midfielder made a mistake, an english player made a tackle, and it was 2-0 after a nice teamwork.


----------



## joen_cph

Knorf said:


> If scoring goals is all you think generates excitement, perhaps football is not the sport for you.
> 
> This was a fascinating, tense, tactical match, and history will likely view it that way. I couldn't take my eyes away!


There's much subjectivity and national interests etc. involved anyway. Regarding the unimportance of very low goal statistics, Sven Göran Eriksson okayed for example only the last 15 minutes of that match as really worthwhile. But then, perhaps football isn't really a sport for him either ... 

A lively Sweden - Ukraine game now, where Ukraine leads 1-0, after 30 minutes. Sweden mostly dominated, but Ukraine came back in the game.


----------



## vincula

But then back in the game the Swedes are too. Emil Forsberg to the rescue. Just in time. 

Regards,

Vincula


----------



## HenryPenfold

Kreisler jr said:


> This was the first world cup, actually the first major international sports event I somewhat followed, I was only ten but I remember the incredibly exciting semifinal France - Germany. This was the Platini etc. team that for some reason only managed to get the 1984 EM champion and underperformed at Worlds.
> But the modus back then was really not the best with the intermediate group. Later on, giving 3 points for victory was also a very sensible move. I also think it is rather ridiculous to eliminate only 1/3 of the teams in the group matches and that 16 was a sensible numer for European championships but apparently more teams is more money.


I'd forgotten about that France W. Germany game. It was incredibly thrilling (and brutal).


----------



## Pyotr

*Harry Maguire was named UEFA's Star of the Match in England's win over Germany*

An award he most richly deserves! What a game this guy played. I enjoyed every minute, including the first half.

Check out Germany's free kick at around the 77:40 minute mark(England up 1-0). Harry was part of the wall and took Müller's kick right in the face -he got thrown back about six feet from the force of the ball. About ten minutes later the announcer (who didn't notice that Maguire took that shot) mentioned that Harry has been looking a little wobbly lately. No kidding!

In this article he accepts today's award and talks about missing the Europa League final and whether he'd be fit for the euros. Apparently he's been sufferings from some physical issues.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...arry-maguire-gives-manchester-united-20932892


----------



## elgar's ghost

Pyotr said:


> An award he most richly deserves! What a game this guy played. I enjoyed every minute, including the first half. Check out Germany's free kick at around the 77:40 minute mark(England up 1-0). Harry was part of the wall and took Müller's kick right in the face -he got thrown back about six feet from the force of the ball. About ten minutes later the announcer (who didn't notice that Maguire took that shot) mentioned that Harry has been looking a little wobbly lately. No kidding!


Standing tall in a wall at free kicks is one of those situations in which players should still be prepared to man up - too many shrink away as if they are scared that the ball is going to split them in half. Maybe Maguire took an especially hard shot in the wrong spot but today's ultra-light football is more likely to sting rather than take your head off.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Pyotr said:


> An award he most richly deserves! What a game this guy played. I enjoyed every minute, including the first half.
> 
> Check out Germany's free kick at around the 77:40 minute mark(England up 1-0). Harry was part of the wall and took Müller's kick right in the face -he got thrown back about six feet from the force of the ball. About ten minutes later the announcer (who didn't notice that Maguire took that shot) mentioned that Harry has been looking a little wobbly lately. No kidding!
> 
> In this article he accepts today's award and talks about missing the Europa League final and whether he'd be fit for the euros. Apparently he's been sufferings from some physical issues.
> 
> https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...arry-maguire-gives-manchester-united-20932892


Good call.

I'd hardly noticed him before.

What a player/performance!


----------



## Kiki

Perhaps not surprisingly the Sweden/Ukraine game is much more open. And how how many times do they have to hit the woodwork? Wait, the goalposts and cross bar are made of aluminium these days, aren't they? :lol:


----------



## Eclectic Al

Looking at this game, it's the walking wounded who will take on England - whichever side goes through.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Why is the goal scorer wearing a bra?


----------



## Eclectic Al

Ukraine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But it looks like I'm the only one still watching.


----------



## joen_cph

Sweden out, 1-2. The (correct) expulsion of the Swedish player was among the decisive events. A lively and dramatic game.
Congrats to Ukraine, which I also have sympathies for.


----------



## Highwayman

A horrible result for Sweden. Danielsson`s tackle was both brutal and unfortunate for both parties but honestly the game should not have extended to the extra-time if Andersson made the substitutions at a reasonable time. He was somewhat contented with going into extra-time which is absurd when you have the upper-hand.


----------



## Kiki

To be fair Danielsson was looking at the ball, got the ball, but he also took out the man unfortunately in a very nasty way. Red card was justified. 

For a long time being 11 vs 10, Ukraine was playing safe, did not swarm forward. Thought they weren't taking advantage of having an extra player. They certainly left it late to get the job done!

I agree England should be happy to see this.


----------



## perempe

Eclectic Al said:


> Why is the goal scorer wearing a bra?


It's a special bra.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Eclectic Al said:


> Why is the goal scorer wearing a bra?


It's important to have a hobby?


----------



## Merl

Great win for England even though Southgate is an idiot and is using Greece and Potugal tactics of defence and negativity to win games. However we won and it's p*ssing off everyone up here in Chillyjockoland so all is good. The game tonight between Ukraine and Sweden was lowwwww quality football and dreary beyond belief, played out in front of what seemed like about 12 fans. Tbh, they could have held that match at Cowdenbeath's ground rather than Hampden and it still wouldn't have been even a 10th full. If England don't beat Ukraine they don't deserve any accolades. They're a poor team.


----------



## elgar's ghost

perempe said:


> It's a special bra.


Can't see the point of some of these so-called 'sports' accessories - gloves, snoods and now these! Unless it prevents nipple-itch from the man-made material of a football shirt I can't for the life of me figure out what this glorified crop-top is actually good for.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Merl said:


> Great win for England even though Southgate is an idiot and is using Greece and Potugal tactics of defence and negativity to win games. However we won and it's p*ssing off everyone up here in Chillyjockoland so all is good. The game tonight between Ukraine and Sweden was lowwwww quality football and dreary beyond belief, played out in front of what seemed like about 12 fans. Tbh, they could have held that match at Cowdenbeath's ground rather than Hampden and it still wouldn't have been even a 10th full. If England don't beat Ukraine they don't deserve any accolades. They're a poor team.


Totally unfair to describe Southgate as an idiot - I come into contact with lots of idiots and they really aren't that bad when you get to know them.

Why are Cowdenbeath Nil so often mocked?


----------



## Art Rock

Looks like I made the right decision to skip the Sweden-Ukraine game.


----------



## Art Rock

There has been criticism here and elsewhere on the web that four of the six number 3's also stayed in the tournament for the knock-out phase. It is interesting that three of these four (Czechia, Ukraine and Switzerland) actually went on to the quarter finals at the cost of group winners, while the other (Portugal) put up a strong fight against a group winner. The tournament definitely benefited from their presence in the knock-put phase.


----------



## Eclectic Al

perempe said:


> It's a special bra.











The advertising is certainly a bit different from that for normal bras.
I wonder what cup sizes are available.


----------



## Merl

Eclectic Al said:


> View attachment 156861
> 
> 
> The advertising is certainly a bit different from that for normal bras.
> I wonder what cup sizes are available.


I wonder if the quarter finals will be played out in (special) stilettos and (special) full evening wear?


----------



## Kreisler jr

Art Rock said:


> There has been criticism here and elsewhere on the web that four of the six number 3's also stayed in the tournament for the knock-out phase. It is interesting that two of these four (Ukraine and Switzerland) actually went on to the quarter finals at the cost of group winners, while the other two (Croatia and Portugal) put up strong fights against two other group winners. The tournament definitely benefited from their presence in the knock-put phase.


My criticism was against the modus per se. Playing 36 matches to eliminate 8 of 24 teams seems ridiculous. I also do not see why we need as many competing teams for only Europe as we had for the whole world until 1994. To blow up the event to the dimensions of the world cup just seem too much.
Obviously it can in specific circumstances lead to "deserving" teams being advanced or to interesting pairings. But I also recall circumstances when people found the determination of the "best 3rd places" rather unfair, even if there are clear rules.
(To get interesting pairings we could start with a totally randomly set k.o. round of 16 or 32 teams.)


----------



## mikeh375

Merl said:


> I wonder if the quarter finals will be played out in (special) stilettos and (special) full evening wear?
> 
> ....................


----------



## elgar's ghost

Eclectic Al said:


> View attachment 156861
> 
> 
> The advertising is certainly a bit different from that for normal bras.
> I wonder what cup sizes are available.


What's really risible is the macho posturing in a lame attempt to legitimize it as an essential piece of sports kit. I suppose the players themselves are told so often how great they are that they don't realise how utterly ridiculous it looks. It's even more laughable than the singlets worn in Beckham's time.


----------



## Eclectic Al

elgars ghost said:


> What's really risible is the macho posturing in a lame attempt to legitimize it as an essential piece of sports kit. I suppose the players themselves are told so often how great they are that they don't realise how utterly ridiculous it looks. It's even more laughable than the singlets worn in Beckham's time.


Well - if you want to tell them that in person, good luck.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Eclectic Al said:


> Well - if you want to tell them that in person, good luck.


I like to think they wouldn't punch an old man. :lol:


----------



## Eclectic Al

elgars ghost said:


> I like to think they wouldn't punch an old man. :lol:


I suspect they'd send round their PR advisers to do that. Landing their own punches might affect their manicures.

(Mind you, the one on the left looks like he's at least a C cup, so perhaps he needs the garment. Too much gym work is my guess.)


----------



## TxllxT

In the Dutch news it came out that the Dutch players didn't want Louis van Gaal as coach, because his coaching too much resembles real coaching. Instead they opted for pampering.


----------



## Highwayman

Eclectic Al said:


> View attachment 156861


What should we call these? Bro? Manssiere?


----------



## elgar's ghost

TxllxT said:


> In the Dutch news it came out that the Dutch players didn't want Louis van Gaal as coach, because his coaching too much resembles real coaching. Instead they opted for pampering.


More on this as it breaks, please.


----------



## TxllxT

elgars ghost said:


> More on this as it breaks, please.


https://www.ad.nl/euro-2020/die-geweldige-spelers-van-oranje-van-dijk-voorop-wilden-veeleisende-van-gaal-niet~a9637957/
>>Those great players of Orange, Van Dijk in front, did not want demanding Van Gaal
Not only the KNVB, but also the players of the Dutch national team did not want the demanding Louis van Gaal. A gross error of judgment, according to columnist Hugo Borst. "They wanted a gentle healer. Dumbs.''
While England and Germany are playing blitz, I look for an enlightening quote from Donyell Malen. Was the PSV striker happy with the substitution after De Ligt's red card? Because it was broken? Because his oxygen tank was almost empty? Or is that a cool story? Can he just play 90 minutes? Was it just a really stupid switch? We remain deprived of information. By the KNVB, by Malen.
I also have some questions for Memphis. I surf the internet drowsy. We are two days later but journalists who can cite Memphis (and Malen), I don't see them. A message on Memphis' own channel. He offers his apologies for the elimination. Point. He does not explain how this all came to be. The journal can be fed up, so can the people.

That's how they almost all do it these days. French star player Kylian Mbappé plays an unlucky tournament, culminating in a fatal penalty and the star player only bows his head on Insta.

Nico-Jan Hoogma will be speaking to the press.
Who is that? That is the director of football, eh director of top football, of the KNVB. Many insiders warned him last summer that choosing Frank de Boer as the successor to Ronald Koeman was very linking. But Hoogma - and not only him - did not want Louis van Gaal. Afraid of his dominance. Then you would say: if Frank de Boer fails, you fail with him. But Heracles Hoogma stays put. Then you have guts, especially for a provincial. And he, Mister Middelmaat, is now going to solve the problem of the rudderless Orange, I understand. A mediocre choice is obvious. Frank Heracles Wormuth but do it right away as the new national coach?

Or does Hoogma listen to all those former top footballers who pronounce a Wilderiaanse ban on a foreigner as the new national coach? There is especially fear of Germans. In that case, the rinse becomes very thin. Hoogma should get along, because I understand from a reliable source that Louis van Gaal is letting his trainer's license expire. A bit demonstrative you might say, but a throwaway gesture to Heracles Hoogma, I get that.

Hoogma was not the only one with **** in her pants. Those great players of Orange, Virgil van Dijk in front, did not want the demanding Van Gaal. They wanted a gentle healer. stupid.

As I write this I see England cheering and whining.

After the best football player, Jack Grealish, has finally come in, an old score (1996) is settled. Nice for national coach Gareth Southgate, who spoiled things as a player at the time by missing a penalty. Hopefully Southgate will field Grealish from the start in the quarterfinals. The eye wants something too. We Dutch want to be spoiled a bit.<<

Another article: https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=390442


----------



## Roger Knox

Eclectic Al said:


> (Mind you, the one on the left looks like he's at least a C cup, so perhaps he needs the garment. Too much gym work is my guess.)


It symbolizes the top-heavy management staff of some wealthy teams.


----------



## Art Rock

I missed the fist 70 minutes or so of Spain - Switzerland. 1-1 right now - looks like another interesting game.


----------



## joen_cph

In the first of the quarter finals, Switzerland scores to 1-1 after 70 minutes. Spain needs to show a much more assertive playing to be convincing.


----------



## Art Rock

Ridiculous red card for Switzerland - VAR fails to overrule. Unbelievable.


----------



## joen_cph

Hm, many would disagree. That was very dangerous.


----------



## Art Rock

We have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Knorf

joen_cph said:


> That was very dangerous.


Agreed. Dangerous tackle. Similar tackles have ruined players' careers. I'm for the Swiss here, but I think they have next to zero room to complain.


----------



## Art Rock

According to news flashes, even the Spanish reporters agree that this is never a red card.


----------



## joen_cph

Well, Swedish commentators agreed with the decision. But maybe a yellow card was enough.


----------



## Knorf

Mark Clattenburg also said clear red.

I mean, the rules are pretty clear, if one follows them. That justly earned a red card. Far too reckless, clearly endangering another player, off the ball, late, etc. Stupid for Freuler, really.


----------



## Art Rock

Former England striker and BBC presenter Gary Lineker: a red card for virtually nothing.
Former Oranje striher and football pundit van Hooijdonk: a ridiculous red card.
Former Dutch top referee van den Ende: yellow at most.


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> Former England striker and BBC presenter Gary Lineker: a red card for virtually nothing.
> Former Oranje striher and football pundit van Hooijdonk: a ridiculous red card.
> Former Dutch top referee van den Ende: yellow at most.


I agree with none of these. I actually wish refs did _more_ to follow the actual rules and protect players' health.

ETA: again, to be clear, I wish to see the Swiss win this...


----------



## Art Rock

Extra time. Good news for the winner of Belgium - Italy later tonight.


----------



## Kiki

The game has been like a mid-season mid-table league game. Not very impressive. When Switzerland went down to ten men, at least it became a bit more interesting.

I think it was red. Studs up. Hit the Spanish player's lower limb straight on. Dangerous. It was fortunate that the Spanish player was not seriously injured.

Extra time. Here we go.


----------



## Art Rock

Amazingly it is still 1-1 after a number of 100% chances - Spain must be getting nervous now.


----------



## Knorf

There are no 100% chances...


----------



## Art Rock

Fifteen minutes left to survive for the Swiss - they are clear favourites for a penalty shoot-out of course.


----------



## Kiki

Yann Sommer is stealing the show. That means the constant pressure from Spain. 15 more mins for the Swiss to hold out.


----------



## Knorf

Yann Sommer has been terrific! He's the reason Spain haven't closed this down, and the main performance holding my interest. Spectacular stuff.

ETA: great minds think alike, Kiki!


----------



## mikeh375

cmon Switzerland


----------



## Art Rock

About a minute left ...


----------



## Art Rock

LET'S GO! penalty shootout! Kudos, Switzerland.


----------



## Art Rock

Oh dear...................


----------



## Art Rock

Congrats Spain - but great tournament, Switzerland!


----------



## Knorf

I'm not sure I've ever seen so many missed PKs at this level of competition...


----------



## joen_cph

I hope the Spanish victory will give the team enough confidence for some more convincing playing next time ...


----------



## Highwayman

I`m devastated by this result. Sommer did absolutely everything he can, he deserved more and tbh Spain with their "snoozer" game deserved less. I don`t think they have the guns to beat neither the Belgians nor the Italians.


----------



## Kiki

I agree. Belgium and Italy are playing a much higher-quality game. Much faster tempo. Much higher intensity.


----------



## Malx

I reckon I could convert more of the chances Spain created than Morata or Moreno - provided someone else could do the running for me 
Seriously Spain have no striker worth mentioning or not playing him if they have.

At least thats my view from 'chillyjockoland'


----------



## Malx

Deserved goal for Italy 1-0

ETA - 2-0 superb goals.


----------



## Art Rock

And a beauty for 2-0.


----------



## Malx

Penalty Belgium.

2-1 great game so far.


----------



## Art Rock

A soft one, but there was a shove, so VAR will not correct.

2-1. Game on!


----------



## Knorf

I'm waiting to take a friend home from the hospital... Missing all the action...


----------



## Malx

Knorf said:


> I'm waiting to take a friend home from the hospital... Missing all the action...


Hope you are recording the game Knorf - and of course I hope your friend is well.


----------



## joen_cph

... the first half had enough action and excitement for a complete game ...


----------



## Knorf

Knorf said:


> I'm waiting to take a friend home from the hospital... Missing all the action...


I'm sure he's fine. Fairly routine. Of course I have no problem with prioritizing helping a friend! It's half-fake kvetching.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Highwayman said:


> I`m devastated by this result. Sommer did absolutely everything he can, he deserved more and tbh Spain with their "snoozer" game deserved less. I don`t think they have the guns to beat neither the Belgians nor the Italians.


Never a penalty, ball first follow-through = yellow card. Ref is an imbecile.


----------



## Art Rock

It's an amazing game, and Italy is trying their utmost to force a 3-1 rather than defending their lead.


----------



## Malx

Have the Italian players been infected by a Brazilian strain of a positive virus - they are certainly not playing to type.


----------



## Art Rock

So close and yet so far - Lukaku just fails to equalize.


----------



## Art Rock

And now Spinazolla who misses a great chance .... this could have easily been 5-4 already.


----------



## Art Rock

That's quite a setback for Italy - arguably their most consistent and strongest player (Spinazolla) off with what looks like a severe muscle injury. Probably end of tournament for him.


----------



## Art Rock

Belgium out. Congrats Italy, and probably by now the favourite for the title.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Forza Azzurri!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Malx

Just watching the Italian players celebrating with the crowd a thought crossed my mind - I hope none of them catch covid that then stops them, individually or as a team, from gracing the rest of the tournament. 
What a waste that would be.


----------



## annaw

Italy played SO beautifully! It was a joy to watch them play.


----------



## Highwayman

What a team! If they continue to play like this, I`m sure they will be the favourites for the next World Championship as well. Kudos to Mancini and all the squad for this impressive display and commiserations to Spinazzola...


----------



## Kiki

I think Italy will definitely be one of the favourites in the World Cup next year (if we really are going to have a World Cup). So will Brazil, who have been playing well in Copa America. It's definitely too early to predict an Italy/Brazil final, but honestly I don't want that. That's too predictable. I want an upset!


----------



## Kiki

Oh dear, how did Denmark score? A completely free header! Unbelievable.


----------



## Knorf

And today we have the Republic of the Czechs versus the Mark of the Danes. 

Czechia have definitely punched above their weight this tournament, whereas the Danes have been a bit lucky in their draw, their biggest result being the 4-0 thrashing of Wales, and their only other victory being 4-1 over Russia in the group stage. 

The Czechs beat Scotland, tied a very good Croatia, and then lost to England but beat the Netherlands.

So, I guess I think the Czechs will take this, but who can predict?

ETA: but WOW, just as I typed this, Denmark scores! I guess we have more surprises to enjoy!


----------



## Art Rock

Well, that did not take long.... 1-0 for Denmark.


----------



## MrNobody

Art Rock said:


> Well, that did not take long.... 1-0 for Denmark.


Why do intelligent people watch football these apocalyptical days. I remember Maradona, but I see no one like him around


----------



## CnC Bartok

Art Rock said:


> Well, that did not take long.... 1-0 for Denmark.


Yeah. It was fun while it lasted.....


----------



## Knorf

The Czech defense still a bit shambolic. They're a bit lucky not to be down 2-0 already, or worse.

ETA: and now they ARE down 2-0. I may have called this one way wrong! But Czechia have been poor. A shock after a solid performance against Netherlands.

EATA: Czechia pull one back! Looking way more dangerous this half! Game on!


----------



## Art Rock

Time is running out for the Czechs, and now their big scorer has to be replaced with an injury....


----------



## Knorf

Tired legs. Looks like the Danes will hold on, barring a surprise. Czechia seem out of ideas.


----------



## Art Rock

GO DENMARK! 2-1!
What a story...


----------



## Art Rock

Will they go all the way? They did it before in bizarre circumstances, by beating Germany in the final of Euro'92 - a tournament they had not even qualified for. They were only asked to play after Yugoslavia was disqualified due to the outbreak of the war there.


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> GO DENMARK! 2-1!
> What a story...


I guess I should have estimated the worth of their thrashings of Russia and Wales a bit higher!


----------



## joen_cph

Knorf said:


> Tired legs. Looks like the Danes will hold on, barring a surprise. Czechia seem out of ideas.


Also, the game was played in 30 degrees C.


----------



## Knorf

joen_cph said:


> Also, the game was played in 30 degrees C.


Certainly the exhaustion was understandable. Both sides ran and played hard.


----------



## mikeh375

....I'm getting jittery. Well done Denmark.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Let's hope they are extraordinarily tired for their next game. (And the same for Ukraine.)


----------



## Art Rock

Switched to the BBC for this one. I see the most creative players are still not starting for England. But as they say, you can't argue with success, and so far they are doing what it takes.


----------



## Art Rock

The Harrycane strikes early. Amazing how he has improved since his first lackluster games.


----------



## joen_cph

Things not looking good for Ukraine; it would take an immense come-back, this was after only 4 minutes.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Cry 'God for *Harry*, *England* and St George' !!!!!!!


----------



## perempe

England would be in trouble if Sheva played.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Taking off a centre half and bringing on a winger? With some Rubik Cubing, this probably means they will play a flat back four. Thank you Ukraine, we need a bit of space in front of your 18 yard box!!!


----------



## mikeh375

......kicking every ball from the sofa., ridiculous tension here.


----------



## Kiki

Interesting to see Harry Kane doing tactical formation analysis on the field! 

:
:

There were some nasty vibes in the air among Yarmolenko, Yarmolenko and Harry Maguire. Unusual to see this kind of things. Hope this will not turn into a nasty match.


----------



## Art Rock

Missed the 0-2 due to a short internet failure. 



ETA: at least I saw the 3-0. More Kane.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Keep going. The best way to defend 3-0 is to make it 4.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Harry!!!!!!


Amateur defending


----------



## mikeh375

tension dissipated......omfg


----------



## Art Rock

HenryPenfold said:


> Amateur defending


Even worse just now - Henderson 4-0.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Ukraine have given up but England have just bled the life out of them.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Oooooooooooooh!


----------



## Eclectic Al

My favourite football games are ones which are beyond doubt, where you like the outcome. Excitement is overrated.


----------



## Art Rock

Closed out professionally, job done. Both semi's (and the final) promise to be interesting!


----------



## HenryPenfold

elgars ghost said:


> Ukraine have given up but England have just bled the life out of them.


Ukraine left their knickers on the Sweden pitch.


----------



## Eclectic Al

I hope the Danes are quite tired. However, the Italians look like the best team to date???


----------



## HenryPenfold

As an Anglo-Italian, I'm looking forward to the final between Italy and England - I can't lose


----------



## Knorf

I was away drinking beer drinking with English friends to watch the match. I have one thing to say.

ENGLAND!


----------



## Merl

Great win for England. I've been critical of Southgate but he's got the job done. I still don't know how Rashford can get on the pitch and Foden and Grealish can't. Bizarre. But on we go....the silence up here in Scotland is deafening. Lol. 
:lol:


----------



## Highwayman

Kiki said:


> I think Italy will definitely be one of the favourites in the World Cup next year (if we really are going to have a World Cup). So will Brazil, who have been playing well in Copa America. It's definitely too early to predict an Italy/Brazil final, but honestly I don't want that. That's too predictable. I want an upset!


I`m afraid I don`t agree with the Brazil part. So far their game has failed to impress me. They sure have some talented players but they are all playing their own game on the pitch. They can defend well but their attacking variations are not so rich as one might think, I can easily imagine them losing point(s) against efficient teams such as Denmark or Sweden in the group stages. Even their victory against Chile yesterday was not comprehensive and I can easily say that the Chilean team was not in good form.

I missed or skipped very few games from both tournaments and I cannot possibly see any of the South American teams to be serious contenders next year, especially when the European teams are this strong.


----------



## HenryPenfold

The last time Ukraine got a proper drubbing at the hands of the English was 2015 in Dusseldorf ..........


----------



## Malx

Merl said:


> Great win for England. I've been critical of Southgate but he's got the job done. I still don't know how Rashford can get on the pitch and Foden and Grealish can't. Bizarre. But on we go....the silence up here in Scotland is deafening. Lol.
> :lol:


............................................:lol:


----------



## Kiki

Highwayman said:


> I`m afraid I don`t agree with the Brazil part. So far their game has failed to impress me. They sure have some talented players but they are all playing their own game on the pitch. They can defend well but their attacking variations are not so rich as one might think, I can easily imagine them losing point(s) against efficient teams such as Denmark or Sweden in the group stages. Even their victory against Chile yesterday was not comprehensive and I can easily say that the Chilean team was not in good form.
> 
> I missed or skipped very few games from both tournaments and I cannot possibly see any of the South American teams to be serious contenders next year, especially when the European teams are this strong.


We may agree to disagree on Brazil's performance then. 

Sometimes we see some teams performing at completely different levels at the beginning and towards the end of a tournament. Just look at England at the QF versus their early group games. So who knows, we might see England in the final.


----------



## Art Rock

Spain - Italy about to start. Spain makes an interesting line-up change by dropping their number 9 Morata for a 'false number 9' Oyarzabal to counter the impressive (but old) Italian central defensive duo.


----------



## Kiki

Apart from an early moment of scare, Spain is have a great run in the game.

Question: Azpilicueta always tucked in his shirt during the whole tournament. I wonder why. In the old days, referees often had to remind players to tuck in their shirts. But time has changed. The modern day on-field fashion dictates they don't do that, right? :lol:


----------



## HenryPenfold

After a ragged start, Spain look quite assured. I think Italy need to get their finger out .....


----------



## Kiki

Happened twice already. The Spanish goalkeeper decided to come out the get the ball, but both times he resisted leaving the penalty area, so both times he didn't get the ball. Ummm.


----------



## Art Rock

Unai Simon looks shaky, Donnarumma looks strong. Although Spain so far has the better play, I think the keepers' qualities will decide this for Italy.


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> Unai Simon looks shaky, Donnarumma looks strong. Although Spain so far has the better play, I think the keepers' qualities will decide this for Italy.


Starting to think so, too, but Italy aren't finding many touches at all in the attacking third.


----------



## Knorf

GOLLLLLLAZZZZZZZZZZZZO! 

Great goal!


----------



## Art Rock

Chiesa 1-0. Over and out.


----------



## Kiki

Awesome strike from Chiesa! And talk about luck - a perfectly weighted pass from Insigne came to a slow and immobile Immobile and set to lose the ball, then Chiesa came out of nowhere and bang! Impressive.


----------



## Knorf

Kiki said:


> Awesome strike from Chiesa! And talk about luck - a perfectly weighted pass from Insigne came to a slow and immobile Immobile and set to lose the ball, then Chiesa came out of nowhere and bang! Impressive.


It caught my attention.

ETA: Italy look to be committing to defense with those subs. Hope 1-0 is enough. Against Spain, though?


----------



## HenryPenfold

Fred Church scores!!!!!

Italy one up!!


----------



## Art Rock

It is interesting to see that Italy is not really able to shut out Spain after their goal - there have been clear chances for the equalizer. And Donnarumma also starts to look shaky.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Italy have been reluctant to move the ball to the right in the final third of the pitch, where Fred Church is often well-positioned.

It's interesting that he got the goal after moving over to the left for a piece of the action.


----------



## Art Rock

Wow - 1-1 by *Morata*. Combining straight though the centre.


----------



## Knorf

Terrific equalizer, again on a counter... Who knows where this is going!?


----------



## Kiki

Awesome! Where are Morata's critics now?


----------



## HenryPenfold

A well-worked goal and well-deserved for Spain - but I could've done without it!


----------



## Art Rock

Extra time. What a game.


----------



## HenryPenfold

What a game!

Best I've seen in years.

I fear for Italy, Spain have the momentum.


----------



## Knorf

Art Rock said:


> Extra time. What a game.


Definitely a slow burn, but not less engaging for that.


----------



## Malx

Phew - if thats football I'm not sure what you would call what Scotland play, it certainly is a different level tonight.

So extra-time plays into our southern neighbours hands a extra 30 mins in the legs will more than balance out the additional days rest - oh sorry I'm almost doing what the English pundits do and am disrespecting Denmark :devil:


----------



## Knorf

Italy too slow, too reactive the first bit of extra time. Spain so much closer to breaking it open.

ETA: you can see it in the fans. Spain's fans are excited and on their feet. Italy's look worried.

EATA: Italy looking much better in the 2nd half of extra time.

Knife edge!

And now everyone looks worried. PK shootout inc...


----------



## Art Rock

Penalties it is then. Spain clearly not the favourites here given their history with penalties in this tournament.


----------



## Art Rock

More drama. 0-0 after two penalties.


----------



## Art Rock

And as fate would have it, Morata fails. And Jorginho scores - Italy through.


----------



## HenryPenfold

I dislike penalty shoot-outs immensely. The game should be won or lost in open-play.

Although I'm very happy for Italy to go through, I must be honest, Spain were the more deserving team.


----------



## HenryPenfold

kiki said:


> awesome! Where are morata's critics now?


:lol:

.........


----------



## Kiki

HenryPenfold said:


> :lol:
> 
> .........


They are rejoicing, and have a lot to write in the paper tomorrow!


----------



## vincula

Kiki said:


> They are rejoicing, and have a lot to write in the paper tomorrow!


Even though Spain dominated clearly today and has scored more goals than any other team during this EM, as far as I know...

Regards,

Vincula


----------



## Knorf

Jorginho's been thrashed a lot by the fans and press as well. Mainly by Chelsea supporters I think. But he's excellent at PKs.

Without Morata, Spain wouldn't have had the chance to lose the shootout...

Great match, despite ending with a shootout!


----------



## Kiki

Dani Olmo was the best player in open play imo. He missed. Our Tiago surprisingly scored. I didn't expect that. Morata... oh boy, it's fate.


----------



## Highwayman

Spain played their best game today but it was still not enough to beat Italy`s worst game. :lol:


----------



## HenryPenfold

Highwayman said:


> Spain played their best game today but it was still not enough to beat Italy`s worst game. :lol:


Yes, that probably was Spain's best performance, and Italy were below par.


----------



## Art Rock

I missed the most hilarious moment (not sure if it was broadcast - I went to sleep after the final penalty). Bonucci ran to the Italian fans to celebrate with them, and when he wanted to return to the pitch, a stadium steward blocked his way: "no supporters on the playing field!".


----------



## elgar's ghost

HenryPenfold said:


> I dislike penalty shoot-outs immensely. The game should be won or lost in open-play.
> 
> Although I'm very happy for Italy to go through, I must be honest, Spain were the more deserving team.


I've always been against penalties when a team reaches the semi-final stage - getting that far surely merits a replay, THEN have the penalty shoot-out if the tie is still in deadlock. Ditto with the final.

Thanks to the redrawing of the European political map UEFA have gleefully increased the amount of games significantly over the last twenty or so years both in the qualifying stages and during the tournament proper - surely it's not asking too much for replays where necessary when it's gone all the way down to the last four.


----------



## mikeh375

...score predictions for tonight anyone? I'm going for 2-1 England.


----------



## Eclectic Al

They haven't conceded a goal yet.
So 0-0, and lose on penalties, surely.


----------



## mikeh375

^^^^nooooooooo, please noooooo.


----------



## MrNobody

1-1, then England loses on penalties after a silly shot


----------



## Art Rock

I prefer either team as the winner of the tournament over Italy for some reason. I think England has a better chance in the final, but I would not mind a Danish win either.

Prediction: 2-1 for England.


----------



## mikeh375

here we go..............


----------



## Eclectic Al

I think results in football should be decided on possession, not goals.
Just saying.


----------



## Art Rock

Oy oy... 1-0 for Denmark. Good free kick, but I think Pickford's positioning was wrong.


----------



## jhm

As long as people aren't saying "its coming home", I can bare hanging around


----------



## Eclectic Al

Whoops..............


----------



## Kiki

Wow what a rocket from Damsgaard! And it came a free kick in a prime position given away by Shaw unnecessarily.


----------



## Art Rock

That's just what England needed: a quick equalizer. Never mind that it was an own goal. 1-1, game on.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Anti-whoops?.....


----------



## Kiki

Southgate must be happy he started Saka. Great quality cross to force the own goal.


----------



## Art Rock

50 minutes to go until the penalty shootouts....


----------



## Eclectic Al

Well England never lose those, so no problem.


----------



## Art Rock

Extra time it is.... Denmark has been holding on, did not create much anymore. 

Southgate should bring in new blood now imo - especially Foden and Sancho.


----------



## Eclectic Al

So the question for England and Denmark fans is: who wants to lose to Italy?


----------



## Art Rock

Drama squared... England get a soft penalty, Kane MISSES, but scores the rebound.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Well we missed the penalty, but no problem


----------



## Kiki

Wow what a save from the penality but what a rebound!

But should it be a penality in the first place? That looks very soft.


----------



## HenryPenfold

No contact, great dive by Sterling and they let an England fan do the VAR. Crap pen and England cheating their way to the final.


----------



## HenryPenfold

I'm so angry at this injustice, I'm going to give Leinsdorf 6 points tomorrow


----------



## mikeh375

what side is Pickord playing for?


----------



## Eclectic Al

HenryPenfold said:


> No contact, great dive by Sterling and they let an England fan do the VAR. Crap pen and England cheating their way to the final.


Remember: there are points for artistic impression.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Eclectic Al said:


> Remember: there are points for artistic impression.


Triple pike & tuck


----------



## annaw

Estonian commentators just called Pickford “tiny” :lol:.

But that penalty... aghhh. It’s illogical that such a decisive thing as a penalty should be given if there’s realistic doubt that it was just a dive.


----------



## Eclectic Al

VAR agreed :lol:


----------



## Eclectic Al

Never in doubt?..........


----------



## Art Rock

Congrats England. But also congrats Denmark for a brilliant tournament.


----------



## mikeh375

told you so.....


----------



## Eclectic Al

mikeh375 said:


> ...score predictions for tonight anyone? I'm going for 2-1 England.


Well done! !!!!!!


----------



## HenryPenfold

Kane to score with a clever 1-2 with their keeper - 150/1


----------



## Knorf

I have one thing to say.

ENGLAND!


----------



## Malx

I'm going to disappear under my headphones for the next few days and avoid anything news related while the 'English pundits' do their thing.
To the players and the fans I say congratulations - from the media I will hide.

*ETA* - Question One - who are the only team not to get beaten by the mighty England?
Question Two - which Southern European team will win the final?

Clue the answers to both are suggested by a 'deep fried pizza' 

Question Three - which side will Henry P support on Sunday?

All joking aside lets hope for a cracking final.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Dear God, I've aged ten years watching that. If you don't see a post from me for three days after the final then you'll know that I didn't have another ten years to spare. :lol:


----------



## Chilham

HenryPenfold said:


> I'm so angry at this injustice, I'm going to give Leinsdorf 6 points tomorrow


No you're not. He just got "cut" in Bulldog's half-time adjustment. Not your night!


----------



## HenryPenfold

Chilham said:


> No you're not. He just got "cut" in Bulldog's half-time adjustment. Not your night!


:lol:

.................


----------



## Highwayman

Southgate`s (not so positive) tactics has worked out well so far in the tournament but if he will decide to give the ball to Italy as he occasionally did in previous games he might not fare well. I think England should try to control the game as Spain did. Luis Enrique`s strategy was spot on against Italy but he didn`t have a world-class finisher like Kane on his roster so he could not seal the deal. The problem with Italy is that they have quality midfielders but they are not very tough. I think Kalvin Phillips and Rice can dominate the mid-field area. The only downside is Italy is also very good at counter-attacking. :lol:


----------



## Merl

I'm sat here with my final whisky before bed and I'm emotionally sacked. What a tense game. I know we won and deserved to but it wasn't a penalty however that doesn't matter now. All that matters is Sunday. I think it will be a tight, low-scoring and possibly quite boring final with one goal deciding who wins it. I've backed Italy from the beginning against everyone as I love Mancini (as all of us City fans do) but I want us to win so bad. I think team selection is key and Southgate will be a fool to play Saka and not to play Foden (who is brilliant and a level above Saka) in a floating role in front of the Italian back four as he will hurt them. It's gonna be tight. Cmon England!


----------



## joen_cph

Rather awful game, referee made several mistakes that favoured England, the Danes were only 10 players in the whole 2nd half of the extra time due to an injury, three not very good Danish replacements in the 67th minute, and both teams seemed quite weak compared to Italy.

Schmeichel was sabotaged during the penalty by a laser-pen.


----------



## mikeh375

....................................................................


----------



## Kiki

Read about the laser pen in the news. I feel very strongly about it because the laser pen has been featured a lot in political conflicts where I live (I won't go into that). The thing is, the laser from a laser pen can permanently damage the retina in the eye. It wasn't just stupid. It was cynical. Fortunately Kasper Schmeichel did not seem to be affected by that. I hope the laser did not shine directly into his eyes.

There were more than one incidence where there were two balls on the pitch. That did not seem to affect the players but it was a surprise that the referee did not stop the game, presumably to keep the flow of the game going. But then it is also unusual to see multiple incidences of such in a top level game. I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theory. It is just unusual.

Honestly it was rather anti-climax after seeing that soft penalty decision. But the game is over. England has gone through. They will be the underdog when facing Italy. Let's see what they can do. As a neutral, I can't say I'm very excited about the final though.

I'm not particularly excited about the Argentina/Brazil Copa America final either. Apart from a predictable pairing, what caught my eyes about Argentina this year is their kicking game (literally speaking); while Messi has been a match with Neymar in the quadruple Axel department (horizontally on the grass) which is the one bit that I particularly dislike about South American football but having said that Italy has always been the no. 1 playacting team in Europe too.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Kiki said:


> Honestly it was rather anti-climax after seeing that soft penalty decision.


It wasn't a 'soft' penalty - it just wasn't a penalty. Sterling wasn't impeded by an opposition player.

The worrying thing is that VAR concluded that awarding the penalty in the first place wasn't "a clear and obvious error".

These situations have became a farce - or more accurately a battle of wits between cheating footballers and referees who have never played the game at a high enough level to know what's actually going on.


----------



## annaw

Kiki said:


> Read about the laser pen in the news. I feel very strongly about it because the laser pen has been featured a lot in political conflicts where I live (I won't go into that). The thing is, the laser from a laser pen can permanently damage the retina in the eye. It wasn't just stupid. It was cynical. Fortunately Kasper Schmeichel did not seem to be affected by that. I hope the laser did not shine directly into his eyes.
> 
> There were more than one incidence where there were two balls on the pitch. That did not seem to affect the players but it was a surprise that the referee did not stop the game, presumably to keep the flow of the game going. But then it is also unusual to see multiple incidences of such in a top level game. I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theory. It is just unusual.


Honestly, after yesterday's game I feel that England's home advantage is becoming a bit too much. Booing during the Danish anthem is just unrespectful but attempting to blind someone with a laser pointer is almost criminal. Wembley is a massive and great stadium but as long as the UK doesn't let foreign fans to travel into the country (a perfectly reasonable precaution which I totally understand) I feel England's games shouldn't be played in the UK but in a country that has their borders more freely open.

It would be amazing if England finally won a major title, but I think both teams have the right for a fair play. It would be most unfortunate if Italy's game was negatively affected by the fans of the opposite team.


----------



## Merl

annaw said:


> Honestly, after yesterday's game I feel that England's home advantage is becoming a bit too much
> .....


Yet their biggest win and best performance was in ROME! Sorry but this argument doesn't hold any water. Have all host coutries of Euro tournaments won the competition? No, only 3 out of the 15 and the most recent was 37 years! Hardly a massive advantage.


----------



## annaw

Merl said:


> Yet their biggest win and best performance was in ROME! Sorry but this argument doesn't hold any water. Have all host coutries of Euro tournaments won the competition? No, only 3 out of the 15 and only one of those in the past 37 years.


I hope you didn't find what I wrote offensive or discrediting as that was not its purpose. I don't think that England's team's performance itself depends much on the location. They played amazingly yesterday and they would have played equally well somewhere else too. What I meant was that the Danish team was *potentially* disadvantaged. UEFA even opened disciplinary proceedings against England because of what happened during the game. I might be entirely mistaken and I'm glad to admit it if it's so, but I think that a more equal number of fans would have resulted in a bit more enjoyable game. But then that's entirely my personal speculation.


----------



## elgar's ghost

HenryPenfold said:


> These situations have became a farce - or more accurately a battle of wits between cheating footballers and referees who have never played the game at a high enough level to know what's actually going on.


Can't argue with that. In the end, though, it should be down to UEFA, FIFA or national football associations to stamp it out but they never have and they never will. When I was young the only player in England who had a reputation for diving was Francis Lee but his efforts were so exaggerated that no ref worth his salt would take his side. Now virtually every player who gets inside the penalty area has a default setting to go over at the merest contact, or even no contact at all, and do it so convincingly you do wonder if they are coached. It's a total disgrace, along with feigning injury in order to get a opponent carded, but the powers-that-be just aren't interested - they let the rot set in years ago.


----------



## Eclectic Al

elgars ghost said:


> Can't argue with that. In the end, though, it should be down to UEFA, FIFA or national football associations to stamp it out but they never have and they never will. When I was young the only player in England who had a reputation for diving was Francis Lee but his efforts were so exaggerated that no ref worth his salt would take his side. Now virtually every player who gets inside the penalty area has a default setting to go over at the merest contact, or even no contact at all, and do it so convincingly you do wonder if they are coached. It's a total disgrace, along with feigning injury in order to get a opponent carded, but the powers-that-be just aren't interested - they let the rot set in years ago.


I guess it's related to the fact the football is a contact sport, but the rules keep drifting towards trying to make it a non-contact one. If a player is off-balance and is nudged then falling down is a lack of skill, and should not be rewarded. Instead, it often gets a free kick or penalty.

What follows then is that it pays to get off balance and feign a "foul" for the slightest contact by falling down.


----------



## mikeh375

..as Merl says. 
I take your point annaw about the anthem and the laser and as an Englishman I am absolutely mortified by the idiots. However, barring disgraceful behaviour, it's part of the role of fans to intimidate the opposition. It's for the teams to show what they are made of in the face of such adversity and unfavourable circumstances, that's football. If Italy where to be negatively affected by the crowd then then one could easily conclude that they don't have the minerals. But they do and they'll be fine in the cauldron and tough to beat.


----------



## annaw

mikeh375 said:


> ..as Merl says.
> I take your point annaw about the anthem and the laser and as an Englishman I am absolutely mortified by the idiots. However, barring disgraceful behaviour, it's part of the role of fans to intimidate the opposition. It's for the teams to show what they are made of in the face of such adversity and unfavourable circumstances, that's football. If Italy where to be negatively affected by the crowd then then one could easily conclude that they don't have the minerals. But they do and they'll be fine in the cauldron and tough to beat.


I understand the point but my inner moralist was just intimidated by that :lol:. Especially as Denmark had significantly fewer fans due to covid. But then, what can one do...


----------



## mikeh375

elgars ghost said:


> Can't argue with that. In the end, though, it should be down to UEFA, FIFA or national football associations to stamp it out but they never have and they never will. When I was young the only player in England who had a reputation for diving was Francis Lee but his efforts were so exaggerated that no ref worth his salt would take his side. Now virtually every player who gets inside the penalty area has a default setting to go over at the merest contact, or even no contact at all, and do it so convincingly you do wonder if they are coached. It's a total disgrace, along with feigning injury in order to get a opponent carded, but the powers-that-be just aren't interested - they let the rot set in years ago.


What put me off football for a long time was the blatant cheating. Not just the diving, but the kicking of the ball away after a free kick has been awarded, the deliberate obstruction of a player wanting to take a quick free kick, the hands going up to claim any foul or throw-in from both teams etc. None of it reeks of sportsmanship and I agree EG, it feels like the bad sportsmanship is drilled into a player's psyche early on.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Eclectic Al said:


> I guess it's related to the fact the football is a contact sport, but the rules keep drifting towards trying to make is a non-contact one. If a player is off-balance and is nudged then falling down is a lack of skill, and should not be rewarded. Instead, it often gets a free kick or penalty.
> 
> What follows then is that it pays to get off balance and feign a "foul" for the slightest contact by falling down.


I suppose if I was 30 years or so younger I wouldn't give a toss as that is the crappy spiritless mentality with which I would have been brought up. Sadly I'm now at the age where it never fails to boil my pI$$.


----------



## Pyotr

Soft penalty? Ok, but so was the call make on Luke Shaw which led to Denmark’s goal. Christensen folded like a cheap card table. C’mon.

Go England!


----------



## Merl

You didn't offend me at all annaw. As much as I dislike disrespectful booing of national anthems it's something the Little England morons always do. As for the rest it was all part of the game and I agree that England had a more valid penalty on Kane and the free kick that led to the Danish goal was pathetic. At the end of the day it'll be down to who holds their nerve in the final but don't expect a classic. The final is generally low-scoring and often dull (the last one was tedious) so unless someone scores early the neutrals may be asleep by half-time.


----------



## Kiki

This neutral will try to stay awake in the final... or maybe I will put on some Mahler in the background to make it more interesting. :lol:


----------



## MrNobody

Kiki said:


> This neutral will try to stay awake in the final... or maybe I will put on some Mahler in the background to make it more interesting. :lol:


A good idea for a new thread. Just switch the sound off, watch the overpaid clowns dive in faked pain. Meanwhile, put on exactly what?


----------



## elgar's ghost

MrNobody said:


> A good idea for a new thread. Just switch the sound off, watch the overpaid clowns dive in faked pain. _Meanwhile, put on exactly what?_


When they tear off their shirts to reveal their ridiculous 'performance' bras it certainly WOULDN'T be _So Macho_ by Sinitta


----------



## Knorf

I've sobered up a bit.

I was astonished to see so much whinging about the penalty. Astonished.

Yes, it was a penalty. Soft, hard, who cares: a foul in the box is a penalty, and if that had been whistled as a foul anywhere on the pitch, no one would have blinked or asked questions.

A penalty is not just for yellow-card fouls in the box. A penalty is not just for red-card fouls in the box. It is for any fouls committed by a defender in their own box.

Watching the game live, I thought it was a foul. Penalty was the correct call. The replays showed clear illegal contact from two defenders trying to play Sterling the player, and not the ball. Not, the contact wasn't particularly hard, but that is _irrelevant_. There were clear fouls from two defenders in the box, and that means a penalty is a fair call. VAR was correct to uphold the ruling.

I've watched the relays again since yesterday, and looked up still photos and the contact is quite clear and obvious. Foul. In the box: penalty.

(As for "soft," I can with little effort name ten softer penalties awarded against Arsenal just last season, some with red cards. But I digress.)

And, no Sterling was not "cheating." OF COURSE a striker is going to go down when they feel illegal contact in the box! If they don't, it will almost never get called.

There are no professional players who don't of this. None. And it's not cheating if there was contact. Which, yesterday there definitely forking was. A striker who doesn't go down under illegal contact is labeled an idiot.

If the haters and whingers only want "hard" (i.e yellow card level) fouls to be awarded a penalty, then they need to lobby FIFA to change the rules. But of course the truth is that everyone is happy when "soft" penalties go their way, and the whingers are, every one, a load of clattering hypocrites.

There is not one side in the Euros where the strikers didn't go down with contact, especially in the box. Not one.

An foul in the penalty box from a defender risks a penalty being awarded to the attacking side. End of story.

England were the better side, and I'm glad they won. For me, this "controversy" is beyond idiotic.


----------



## Eclectic Al

I agree entirely that if it would be a direct free kick outside the penalty box, then it is a penalty if it is in the box.

The thing that amuses me, though, is watching the players basically fighting before and after a corner has been taken as the ball approaches their heads in front of goal. You watch the slow motion and typically for each corner there could have been 3 or 4 penalties awarded and 3 or 4 defensive free kicks. You just have to shrug your shoulders and laugh.

Where I would be ridiculously harsh is about appealing. If players approach the referee and say "that was a foul" or "that was a penalty" or "that was our throw in" (usually in somewhat more choice language, I imagine) then I would give the lot of them a yellow card, every time, whether they are correct or not. I suspect their behaviour would change quite quickly after a few games ended with 3 or 4 players per side on the pitch.

I am also minded to think about snooker. In snooker it is quite possible for a player to make a foul shot which they will be aware of, but no one else will notice (even the referee). It may, however, be visible to TV viewers in a slow motion replay. I have never seen the player not own up and call a foul on themselves when this happens. I actually find that quite moving.

Equally, after a foul shot balls sometimes need to be replaced in their original positions, and it can be highly advantageous if they go back positioned slightly wrongly. The referee will have a go, and then ask the player if they look right, and they will discuss. In theory the player who is not at the table has to agree too, but they just nod it through without looking, because they trust each other.

In football, if a player fell over in the penalty area and was awarded a penalty, imagine the reaction of their team mates if they said "no, I just fell over". Suppose after the hand of God goal Maradona had immediately said, "no, sorry it hit my hand" his team mates would have been incensed (I imagine), but I would have forever admired him. As it is ................................


----------



## MrNobody

Eclectic Al said:


> Suppose after the hand of God goal Maradona had immediately said, "no, sorry it hit my hand" his team mates would have been incensed (I imagine), but I would have forever admired him. As it is ................................


This is an interesting philosophical question. Perhaps Maradona did the right thing, something smart. He was the god of football, thus he
just used his powers and then spoke the truth


----------



## HenryPenfold

Knorf said:


> I've sobered up a bit.
> 
> I was astonished to see so much whinging about the penalty. Astonished.
> 
> Yes, it was a penalty. Soft, hard, who cares: a foul in the box is a penalty, and if that had been whistled as a foul anywhere on the pitch, no one would have blinked or asked questions.
> 
> A penalty is not just for yellow-card fouls in the box. A penalty is not just for red-card fouls in the box. It is for any fouls committed by a defender in their own box.
> 
> Watching the game live, I thought it was a foul. Penalty was the correct call. The replays showed clear illegal contact from two defenders trying to play Sterling the player, and not the ball. Not, the contact wasn't particularly hard, but that is _irrelevant_. There were clear fouls from two defenders in the box, and that means a penalty is a fair call. VAR was correct to uphold the ruling.
> 
> I've watched the relays again since yesterday, and looked up still photos and the contact is quite clear and obvious. Foul. In the box: penalty.
> 
> (As for "soft," I can with little effort name ten softer penalties awarded against Arsenal just last season, some with red cards. But I digress.)
> 
> And, no Sterling was not "cheating." OF COURSE a striker is going to go down when they feel illegal contact in the box! If they don't, it will almost never get called.
> 
> There are no professional players who don't of this. None. And it's not cheating if there was contact. Which, yesterday there definitely forking was. A striker who doesn't go down under illegal contact is labeled an idiot.
> 
> If the haters and whingers only want "hard" (i.e yellow card level) fouls to be awarded a penalty, then they need to lobby FIFA to change the rules. But of course the truth is that everyone is happy when "soft" penalties go their way, and the whingers are, every one, a load of clattering hypocrites.
> 
> There is not one side in the Euros where the strikers didn't go down with contact, especially in the box. Not one.
> 
> An foul in the penalty box from a defender risks a penalty being awarded to the attacking side. End of story.
> 
> England were the better side, and I'm glad they won. For me, this "controversy" is beyond idiotic.


C'mon Knorf, I wasn't whinging! You're very naughty!

Admittedly, I haven't properly read the rules of Association Football for just over 18 months now and I may not be on top of the fine detail; and I left the professional London football club I was at, at the tender age of 17 and went to university and dropped soccer as sport altogether before I was 26, meaning I probably don't quite have the 'feel' for the game that one needs. These two deficiencies on my part may have caused me to believe it was never a penalty in a million years.


----------



## Eclectic Al

MrNobody said:


> He was the god of football, thus he
> just used his powers and then spoke the truth


Yeah, my worry is that he probably did think he was a god (and quite a lot of people, particularly in Argentina, perhaps agreed).
As it is, if there is another God, I guess Maradona has now met him and been judged.
Is he looking down on us from on high, his hand now having found its true place in heaven, or is he looking up from a place where every morning the devil barbecues his hand for breakfast?


----------



## HenryPenfold

MrNobody said:


> This is an interesting philosophical question. Perhaps Maradona did the right thing, something smart. He was the god of football, thus he
> just used his powers and then spoke the truth


To greater or lesser degrees, people try to cheat. It's human nature.

A referee simply needs to know the rules, understand the game, have some savvy and be the arbiter and executer of the rules. It's not hard.


----------



## Eclectic Al

HenryPenfold said:


> To greater or lesser degrees, people try to cheat. It's human nature.


I have to disagree. I don't think they all do. I'm well aware that people self-justify behaviours which others might think are cheating and so salve their consciences, and that is human nature at least for some. However, it is deeply unattractive.

As an example, what do you do if you break something in a rental property? Do you try and hide the damage, hoping that if it is eventually noticed no one will be able to prove which tenant damaged it, or do you own up? I'll tell you the answer: you own up.

However, I continue to hold that it is *WRONG* to cheat. I gave the example of snooker, and it may be that some people manage to cheat in various ways even there, but what is important is that the ruling culture in the game is against cheating, and long may that continue.

The most dispiriting aspect of football is that it seems like cheating is accepted as a valid tactic. Shame on them. Badly done. :angel:


----------



## Eclectic Al

Cricket has also deteriorated. A while ago, a batsman would walk (even if the umpire had not given him out) if he knew that he had edged a ball and been caught. Now they wait for the umpire's finger. Shame on them.

In a friendly tennis game, line calls will be made on trust, and if someone seems to bias things in their favour that is really, really, really bad.

It is morally concerning if the idea is that if it doesn't matter (say in a private tennis match) then one should be honest, but if it matters (say in the Wimbledon final) then it's OK to cheat. NO. If anything it is the other way round.

The idea, say, of football coaches telling children that it is OK to cheat appals me.


----------



## perempe

There should be a bronze match (between Spain and Denmark this time).


----------



## Highwayman

Eclectic Al said:


> I am also minded to think about snooker. In snooker it is quite possible for a player to make a foul shot which they will be aware of, but no one else will notice (even the referee). It may, however, be visible to TV viewers in a slow motion replay. I have never seen the player not own up and call a foul on themselves when this happens. I actually find that quite moving.
> 
> Equally, after a foul shot balls sometimes need to be replaced in their original positions, and it can be highly advantageous if they go back positioned slightly wrongly. The referee will have a go, and then ask the player if they look right, and they will discuss. In theory the player who is not at the table has to agree too, but they just nod it through without looking, because they trust each other.


I don`t remember when or where was it but I think it was Graeme Dott who was clearing an open table in a deciding frame and then he called his own foul which was barely noticeable even with a close-up slow-mo (probably a push-shot) then his opponent cleared and won. This is noteworthy because since it was an easy table, Dott was probably aware of that he will lose the match if he had called his formerly undetected foul.

This amongst many other reasons is why Snooker is my favourite sport.


----------



## Kiki

Highwayman said:


> I don`t remember when or where was it but I think it was Graeme Dott who was clearing an open table in a deciding frame and then he called his own foul which was barely noticeable even with a close-up slow-mo (probably a push-shot) then his opponent cleared and won. This is noteworthy because since it was an easy table, Dott was probably aware of that he will lose the match if he had called his formerly undetected foul.
> 
> This amongst many other reasons is why Snooker is my favourite sport.


I remember seeing Jimmy White do that many years ago and the ref was confused for a moment before he realised Jimmy just turned himself in. Kudos to the World Champion who never won the World Championship.

But I also remember seeing a player, although I don't remember who, more recently (ten years ago, maybe) who obviously touched a ball but did not call a foul. These things do happen.


----------



## Eclectic Al

Ok. Here's the deal for Italy.

We will rig Wimbledon so that Berrettini wins, as long as you let England win the Euros. Fair enough?
Only Djokovic loses out, and he's got enough wins already (plus we don't want him overtaking Roger, do we?).


----------



## mikeh375

Having proven my unerring predictive abilities with the England-Denmark scoreline, I'm getting 3-1 from the aether at present, but am not sure who the winner will be.....gulp. 
I can predict homemade pizza tonight with much more certainty of success as my wife is rolling out a sourdough base as I write....yay


----------



## elgar's ghost

If Berrettini wins Wimbledon and the Italians the football I can just imagine the headline in the _Corriere dello Sport_:

*ITALY CONQUERS LONDON: TWICE!* ***

(*** in Italian, obviously...)


----------



## Art Rock

In about 12 hours we may know who came first in this exciting European championship.

Meanwhile, I watched Argentina beat Brazil in the final of the South American championship (via internet, and not live). A rather messy (har har) encounter, with a truckload of fouls, about half of which were not even given. Still, I like the outcome, if only because I can't stand Neymar.

My prediction for the final: England win 2-1 (regular time).


----------



## Chilham

I can predict that I won't be watching. Wrong-shaped balls. I hope everyone enjoys the match and that the best team wins.


----------



## HenryPenfold




----------



## Kiki

Art Rock said:


> In about 12 hours we may know who came first in this exciting European championship.
> 
> Meanwhile, I watched Argentina beat Brazil in the final of the South American championship (via internet, and not live). A rather messy (har har) encounter, with a truckload of fouls, about half of which were not even given. Still, I like the outcome, if only because I can't stand Neymar.
> 
> My prediction for the final: England win 2-1 (regular time).


Argentina kicked their way to the win the Copa in my opinion. Did you notice Neymar's torn shorts? Another Brazil player had a tear in one of his socks where it covers his sheen pad. Another got the classic studs-on-leg treatment. Not to mention numerous pulling and tackles from behind. Although South American players tend to fall and roll on the grass more than European players regardless of whether they are really fouled, some of the fouls in this match were real. Very real. Very nasty.

However, that worked. They contained Brazil.

Ironically, although Brazil's defence had been good before the final, Renan Lodi failed to deal with a long ball to Di Maria, and Di Maria lobbed Ederson who was positioned in the middle of nowhere. The goal was a beauty. The rest was not.

I hope the Euro final will not be like this.

Would Mancini tell the Italy players to get "tough" with the England players to contain, disrupt, and possibly wind up a few hot heads? I hope not. I hope he would be true to his words about playing a possession and passing game.


----------



## mikeh375

Chilham said:


> I can predict that I won't be watching. *Wrong-shaped balls.* I hope everyone enjoys the match and that the best team wins.


I hope the waiting at A&E doesn't delay your treatment by too much Chilham.......


----------



## Chilham

:lol: ....................


----------



## CnC Bartok

Got a couple of bottles of Moretti in for the game this evening....


----------



## elgar's ghost

Kiki said:


> Argentina kicked their way to the win the Copa in my opinion. Did you notice Neymar's torn shorts? Another Brazil player had a tear in one of his socks where it covers his sheen pad. Another got the classic studs-on-leg treatment. Not to mention numerous pulling and tackles from behind. Although South American players tend to fall and roll on the grass more than European players regardless of whether they are really fouled, some of the fouls in this match were real. Very real. Very nasty.


Like the Argentina of old, in other words - you only have to see footage of 1960s and 1970s club and international games to see that their whole game was centred around gamesmanship and out-and-out violence - one reason why so many European Cup-winning teams refused to play in the World Club games against the Copa de Libertadores winners. Just watch Racing Club v Celtic (1967) or Estudiantes v Manchester United/AC Milan/Feyenoord (1968-69-70) to reveal how thuggery came so naturally. The only reason Argentinian football cleaned up its act later was because they were warned by FIFA that they would lose the 1978 World Cup unless they got their house in order. Obviously most of the foul play which goes on now is nothing compared to back then, but Argentina never totally lost their sinister side - a real shame when considering that they are second to nobody when producing a conveyor belt of talent.


----------



## Highwayman

I agree, Argentina did not play a fair-game at all but I cannot feel sorry for Brazil very much as I remember various "rolls" and "roles" by them throughout the years which were not particularly "fair" either. I want to reiterate that (imo) none of the South American teams will be serious contenders next year if they play like they did in this year`s Copa América and/or if the European teams will play anything similar to their game they played in Euro 2020.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Highwayman said:


> I agree, Argentina did not play a fair-game at all but I cannot feel sorry for Brazil very much as I remember various "rolls" and "roles" by them throughout the years which were not particularly "fair" either. I want to reiterate that (imo) none of the South American teams will be serious contenders next year if they play like they did in this year`s Copa América and/or if the European teams will play anything similar to their game they played in Euro 2020.


Just as a point of interest, over the past three World Cup finals, 13 out of 24 quarter finalists, 9 out of 12 semi-finalists, 5 out of 6 finalists, and 3 out of 3 winners have been European......


----------



## joen_cph

Here we go. English hooligans without tickets trying to storm the stadium for access. Police seems to have prevented it and any resulting cancellation.

EDIT: some got in there anyway.


----------



## HenryPenfold

joen_cph said:


> Here we go. English hooligans without tickets trying to storm the stadium for access. Police seems to have prevented it and any resulting cancellation.


It's wrong, it's bad behaviour, but .... I'd do the same to get into Wembley if Kna was conducting Bruckner 8 with the Munich Phil - I think it's the same for the 'hooligans' :lol:


----------



## MrNobody

My prediction for the final: After 0-0, Italy wins on penalties. Their goalie is better and England still lacks hand of God


----------



## HenryPenfold

Getting excited. KO is near. But I feel guilty. 

I consider myself British, first and foremost. And I'm very proud of being British. But being the son of an Italian mother, I have two dogs in this fight, but I am drawn emotionally to the Italian team. Not completely sure why.

I asked my mum over lunch yesterday who she would be supporting tomorrow. Her reply was instant; England - we live here (verbatim).

May the best team win!


----------



## Malx

After avoiding all the verbiage that goes before such a game and having seen the teams selected it seems to me Mr Sensible Southgate has opted for a 'they will not pass' policy. I thought with Italys ageing centre-backs he may have put some pace on up front to wear them out, or is the master plan to bring them on on as Chellini and Bonucci get tired as the game progresses - we will see but to be fair Southgate has surprised his critics so far.

May the best team win - and good luck to the poor souls that live near Wembley and anywhere else that the rabble decide to celebrate/ drown their sorrows.

I have my carry out in - 4 pack of Perroni (0% just to bust the myth of Scots drinkers).

Time to brave the media.


----------



## Art Rock

Blink and you miss it. 1-0 within 2 minutes. Beautiful goal as well.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Harry opens the Italians up from deep. He is better than people realise. He might be the difference.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Nearly! Sterling faked a foul and dived in the box, but the ref said no.

Better luck next time Raheem - keep trying, that's the spirit!


----------



## Art Rock

Italy is getting stronger - that was a fine safe by Pickford.


----------



## Art Rock

And there is the equalizer. It was coming.

Penalty shootouts in 55 minutes from now.


----------



## Art Rock

If England don't get their act together soon, it will be Italy in regular time.


----------



## annaw

I have to mention that Björn Kuipers has been a great referee!


----------



## mikeh375

time for Grealish....


----------



## Art Rock

He heard you.... England look stronger than around the 70th minute, when their play was crumbling.


----------



## Art Rock

Really? Bringing Rashford on for the penalties?


----------



## Art Rock

Congrats Italy! Drama galore.


----------



## Ingélou

An honourable effort, anyway. :tiphat::tiphat:


----------



## mikeh375

...bugger, it's not comin 'ome, it's gone to bleedin' Rome.


----------



## Kreisler jr

England sucks at penalties. But we knew this before... and if you lead at home after 2 minutes and cannot win before penalties, I guess football feels treated badly and prefers Rome to home...


----------



## Highwayman

Congratulazioni agli azzurri! Mancini did a spectacular job as a manager and I think this made all the difference between the two teams today. I`m not talking about Southgate`s unfortunate choices for the substitutions and penalty kicks but his general tactics and strategies. You cannot expect Italy to not score if you lay back for 90 minutes! This is the best thing they do and eventually they got the goal one way or another. The early goal was a bliss for England and an absolute shocker for Italy but Southgate gave them plenty of time to regroup. English fans should not be complacent about these results, the circumstances will never be any better for England and Southgate definitely does not deserve a second chance with this negative football. With a top-class manager the same squad can win the World Cup next year.


----------



## Merl

As soon as he brought Rashford on for the penalties I knew we'd lost. Rashford is a poor, poor player who really isn't good enough for England but I can't blame him. Southgate's tactics were crap. He needed to change it early 2nd half but left it wayyyyy too late. Got what we deserved. Nothing. Was he the only one who couldn't see we were playing with 10 men all through the game (Mount was pathetic and totally ineffective)? Grealish or Sancho should have been on from half time. A good manager changes his tactics. Mancini did, Safegate didn't. As a result we lost a very winnable game. Silly man.


----------



## Chilham

mikeh375 said:


> ...bugger, it's not comin 'ome, it's gone to bleedin' Rome.


----------



## MrNobody

As a result the English lost a very winnable game. Nothing to see there! However,












I have a conspiracy theory. But I think it is not allowed here


----------



## mikeh375

Chilham said:


>


...my only consolation is that it's gone via Royal Mail.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I was hoping that England would have grown in confidence after their early lead and really rattled Italy - instead they largely sat back and allowed this very talented Italian team off the hook. A golden opportunity missed, and on home turf where they should be spurred on to show more adventure, whatever is at stake. As for the penalties, I knew it was game over even before the first was taken - you can say that the wrong selections were made for taking them but England just haven't got sufficient sand for this particular sort of endgame, simple as.


----------



## MrNobody

Nothing to see there! Pure sport. nothing was according to any plan 
The usual suspects etc.


----------



## Art Rock

Let's close this thread with a joke...


----------

