# Marc Anthony speech



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

There's one other piece I'd like to post here because I haven't got any feedback on it yet, despite fact that it's not fresh composition nor fresh recording. It's the famous "dogs of war" speech from Shakespeare's play, Julius Caesar, set by me in form of stand-alone aria consiting of recitative-slow air-fast finale.

It was for tenor (and full-blown orchestra... yeah...) but it's recorded with mezzo-soprano, acceptable if you think of high-pitched heroes in baroque opera. Acceptable, but not positive change - moved tessitura still doesn't fit the singer very well and lyric mezzo can't really pull this kind of thing with neccessary force. I'm at the piano.

The piece:

__
https://soundcloud.com/uxopasoz%2Fantoniusz

And if you'd like to refresh memory of the original text:


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Just bumping up because thread has 75 views and 0 replies and it makes me think that 75 people came here, thought "this is so poor that it escapes any description... I can't evet attempt to write how pathetic it is, on my way then..."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

This piece, and others of yours I can recall, all impress as being in an arch-conservative harmonic vein of yore, even if it ends up some semi-fusion of Baroque to mid-late romantic, it is heavily "retro." Other than being original (not a pagiarism), it impresses me as having no fresh persepective on even the eras it reflects.

I recall too, when reading your comments, your general aesthetic seems to be for music of the past (mainly middle-late romantic?), and the cumulative impression is that you are ardent, sincere, and adamant that classical music should have remained, or should now go back to and stay in that harmonic realm.

This is your taste, your preference.

To me, not at all in love or very sympathetic to the actual music from the romantic era(s), you seem to think the state of harmony from that era the pinnacle of music, and what music is and should be. This means what you are making has nothing of interest for my ears at all. Lest you misinterpret that as a comment from one who wants only the newest, most contemporary / avant garde of music and the "sounds it makes," I can only assure you that the range of western art music I love, respond to, covers music from far earlier to the present than that of the style you are writing in.

Original music or not, without requiring it to be avant-garde, there is really nothing new, or better said, "fresh" about this writing. This, I am nearly certain, is why it does not generate much interest with a group such as that on TC, who generally not only have good musical taste, but who also have a broad range of what they find interesting, including the era you seem to be most emulating. The same would hold true, as you have experienced, when you try to get the work performed.

Some could rightly say that what you have written here is "Pastiche." New notes, but a near like-copy of older music.

P.s. The level of craft you have achieved, the kind of work and effort and thought which you have applied, are not unnoticed.

I asked a younger colleague, also composing, to listen to your piece and give me his opinion. I thank him again for his time and input: with his permission, then, this is what he says.
_"I just listened to the piece in question. I have to say, it's much better crafted than the most amateur of efforts on TC, of which there seem to be many. But it sounds like it was lifted directly from the Romantic era with absolutely nothing added. I might as well be listening to Paderewski."_


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Thank you for response.

I certainly do draw most of my models from the common practice period, more precisely classical and romantic eras. But my goal was never to ape some particular composer - rather to use these models as background for developing something of my own. I don't know if things I add from myself are of any value, but I'm surprised that you don't find anything "fresh" (which doesn't mean I expect you to find something good/interesting - I just think I have added some things diffrent from what you can hear in music of composers after which I have modeled this piece). 

So I'd like to ask one thing. I took the model of aria used by composers like Rossini and Donizetti - do you think that these composers or any of their contemporary artists could write this piece and that it wouldn't sound any diffrent from his other works? Does it sound ENTIRELY like work from these times, with all it's harmony, form and melodic material?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aramis said:


> Thank you for response.
> 
> I certainly do draw most of my models from the common practice period, more precisely classical and romantic eras. But my goal was never to ape some particular composer - rather to use these models as background for developing something of my own. I don't know if things I add from myself are of any value, but I'm surprised that you don't find anything "fresh" (which doesn't mean I expect you to find something good/interesting - I just think I have added some things different from what you can hear in music of composers after which I have modeled this piece).
> 
> So I'd like to ask one thing. I took the model of aria used by composers like Rossini and Donizetti - do you think that these composers or any of their contemporary artists could write this piece and that it wouldn't sound any different from his other works? Does it sound ENTIRELY like work from these times, with all it's harmony, form and melodic material?


No, because there were a few notes and a harmony here and there which are a little outside the vocabulary of that era: instead of having any reasoned harmonic function in relation to the whole, they were neither surprising nor did they benefit the piece in any way being more expressive -- I did notice these upon first listening, and they simply seemed to not fit, i.e. anomalies, misjudged elements as made by the composer.

Anytime you make a work which reminds the listeners so strongly of another era or composer(s) that they feel they would prefer to go straight to the originals, that is not working in your favor.

I met a composer who could and did compose à la manière de J. S. Bach: his little twist was in the use of key relationships, modulating to key areas which were simply not done in that era, even by Bach. That composer was also genuinely frustrated and angry that no one seemed interested in performing his work.

What he was doing, and thought it to be extremely clever and worthy, was a painfully academic game or joke, and pretty dull as far as vital art goes: the world at large, even other very well-trained musicians, just do not listen that way. Even academics find "the joke" of it very slight.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Alright, I see. I guess I'll have to keep searching for some other means to keep the qualities I want to keep in my music and at the same be modern and "fresh" enough.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aramis said:


> Alright, I see. I guess I'll have to keep searching for some other means to keep the qualities I want to keep in my music and at the same be modern and "fresh" enough.


Modern or other, if it is model without other originality other than a few twists and tircks (gimmicks) it is not fresh.

You first must find your "own voice" -- not working through the models of others. Without that, what this piece also lacks, and others coming from the same base will also lack, is a feeling of "no person behind the music."

After you have found something like "your own voice," then you could readily go to visit, revisit, or work within a vocabulary but have it say something. This piece at present has 0 personality, says absolutely nothing, about music, really, or the person who made it. It has craft, evident, but that is all.

All the music you love and admire clearly has a clear and strong musical personality behind it and in it. You must find yours, or all you make is damned to be lifeless and 'academic.'


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks for the thread, guys. The problem of making music 'in the language' of a historical period communicate something not already 'said' _during_ that period may be particularly difficult then the target is the Romantic period. I am among those who think Rachmaninoff managed it... . Ravel and Prokofiev were successful - but they didn't tackle that period, and they modified the language anyway.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I fear your stubbornness in believing that period the apex of music might keep you from the remaining _requisite_ model exercises and essays in the later developed musical theory, forms and harmonic vocabularies. It is through that survey where often enough you find "your own way," a far greater flexibility, the most fully developed ear. Then you are about as fully equipped as you truly need to revisit another era and write in such a manner to put something fresh in to it, and have it marked with a distinct personality -- yours.

Your self-defensive remarks, somewhat hinting at slighting those great composers who did go a little further than your taste or beliefs about music, don't bode well for your being willing to take that trip. Part of that sequence is where you find yourself not only challenged, but vulnerable and taking a risk, which is what again every composer you admire from any period did. That is part of why that music is still expressive and talks to us.

You are taking absolutely no risks, nor putting yourself in a position to be vulnerable. That makes for flat and uninteresting music, not from the heart, superficial, and usually not marketable either.

In future, if you can not find young professionals eager to perform your work, for free at least (excluding paying for some recording costs) you can take that as a message you are then funding, essentially, a vanity project.

I wish you luck, you certainly have a degree of craft, work hard, and have earnest intent -- what or who is behind that is not at all sounding in the music you presently make. Without that sounding in the music you make, whatever the style, there is very little hope of anyone hoping or caring to perform or record it.

Best of luck, and

Best regards.


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