# How can I count these odd time signatures?



## C95 (Feb 6, 2017)




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## Neward Thelman (Apr 6, 2017)

Eventually, you have to get to the point where you just feel the rhythm. Then, it comes out automatically and it comes out correctly. Otherwise, you'll struggle.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Neward Thelman said:


> Eventually, you have to get to the point where you just feel the rhythm. Then, it comes out automatically and it comes out correctly. Otherwise, you'll struggle.


I agree. Eventually you are at a point where you aren't really "counting" the music per se, but getting a feel for the rhythm and harmonics.


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## BabyGiraffe (Feb 24, 2017)

Use vocalizations - most traditional music traditions use nonsense syllables to construct rhythmic sequences that can function as pulses, meters or rhythmical attacks.
You can invent your own vocalization system. 
8/8 meters like 3+2+3 (which is super popular in latino and balkan dance music) will be TaKiTa-TaKa-Takita using the indian system.
2/16, 3/16, 5/16 and similar used by Stravinsky would be - TaKa; TaKiTa; TaKa-TaKiTa(or the reverse, if it's 5 is 3+2).
4 1/2
____ should be something like TaKA-TaKa-Ta (it depends on what the actual notes are).
4

The irrational - depending on what the composer actually means, there should be some explanation in the score, because you can interpret it in many ways.
Let's say 63/25 meter is actually 4/4, but the pulse is not 4+3+3+3+3, it's something like 5/4+6/5+6/5 +6/5+ 7/6. 
In jazz you write normal 4/4 or 12/8 values with notes like moderate swing, heavy swing, light swing, you don't write - ridiculous time signatures.
Sometimes is better to not write meter at all, just notate the rhythms and the tempo.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

When you see the 1/2 in the numerator, think reduction. For example, the 5 1/2 / 4 meter can be more easily grasped if you think of it as 11/8. 

Don't rely just on feel and intuition. You don't own that meter if you can't count it and find 1 every time.

-09


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

C95 said:


>


1. not sure what a 3 in the lower number indicates -there is no such thing as a "one-third-note" - unless the composer intends that this 2/3 bar has 2/3 of the time value of those bars preceding/succeeding.

2/16; 3/32 - here, and with any mixed meters - you must feel the sub-division - in this case -at least the 32 notes

2/16 + 3/32 = 1+ 2+ 3+a or // // ///

2/32 = again, you must feel th sub-division of the large beats

4 1/2/4; 5 1/2/4 = these should probably be written out as 9/8, and 11/8 - however - the beat pattern is going to be simple [duple], not compound [triple]..IOW the 9/8 is likely not going to be 1+a 2+a 3+a - /// /// ///
it might be something like 1+ 2+ 3+ 4+a // // // /// - however, the three group could fall anywhere in the bar = // *///* // //
same with the 11/8 could be = // *///* // // //

the Bartok excerpts are pretty straight ahead = /// // ///; and /// /// //


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

The 2/3 meter is referred to as a "fractional" beat, not meter. A fractional meter would be like 3 & a half/4. And in this instance, the "2" refers to a quarter note that is two-thirds of an eighth note triplet. I think it's used as a meter more for a metric modulation or for a brief spot where the composer is dwelling on that fractional length. Never really had to deal with "meters" (aka fractional beats) like 3/5 or 1/7, but they DO exist. They really do!! LOL!


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## MissKittysMom (Mar 2, 2017)

In most cases, count a pulse based on the lower number, and go where the rhythm and phrasing take you. Some Bartok (notably the piano sonata, 2nd and 3rd movements) change time signature in nearly every measure; it becomes another notation to help with phrasing.

2/16 or 2/32 seems more like a lurch or deliberate stumble, than a count.

Prokofiev's Sonata No. 3 is marked 4/4 (12/8), so there's a deliberate polyrhythm indicator right from the start.

Satie used plainsong quite a bit - no time signature, no measure bars, just go.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

with asymmetric rhythms - you must always feel the subdivision - ie - for 2/8, 3/8, 5/8, 7/8, etc - you must feel the constant eighth note pulse - then you can always get the rhythm with in each bar.

meters like 3/16, 4/16, 5/16, 7/16 etc - the concept is exactly the same - except here you keep the 1/16 note pulse constant.

actually - with 5/8, 7/8 etc - you need to feel the 16th notes, 
with 5/16. 7/16 - you need the 32nds


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