# Prokofiev Symphony 7



## clavichorder

Any other fans of this oddly marvelous work? I heard it live two weeks ago, and it was my first hearing.(I've had some good luck with first hearings of great works live). Some moments "hit me right between the eyes" and stirred strange things in me. It may sound romantic and even use chords and melodies that look back to Tchaikovsky or Glazunov, but something is so weird and different about it that helps make it great(like much of Prokofiev). The shapes and contours of the work are fresh and vital somehow in the early 1950s. To me there was something deeply moving about it.


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## Pugg

Yes. like it very much, speciality this one:

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## Il_Penseroso

My favorite recordings of this marvelous symphony:

Ormandy and The Philadelphia Orchestra for the so-called happy ending (!) Prokofiev later wrote for the approval... 

Rozhdestvensky 1969 Recording for the original quiet ending (I don't know whether it's been reissued on CD or not...)


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## jim prideaux

on a number of occasions I have remarked about the apparent lack of interest in what to me is a superbly evocative work-almost valedictory,a reflection on what has somehow gone I first came across the 7th on a pre recorded cassette years ago-Previn and the LSO and gave not found a recording to match (although I do now listen to Gergiev and the LSO on CD!)


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## dieter

It's a kindly leave-taking, but after the massively tragic 6th Symphony - by far his greatest symphony - for me it's a let down.
It's like following a great wine with a pretty fruit bomb: or a great meal with a tub of supermarket ice cream.


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## techniquest

The 7th is a fascinating work, often overlooked after the two huge symphonies that preceded it. The 7th was the 'Saturday Symphony' a few weeks back, so you might find some interesting discussion and recommendations in that thread:
http://www.talkclassical.com/43148-ss-09-04-16-a.html


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## tdc

I recently listened to the entire Prokofiev Symphony cycle and found the 7th to be (comparatively speaking) underwhelming. This is not to say it is a bad work, I found it to be pretty good but after listening to the preceding symphonies in order it seems like a regression (I'm sure this is at least somewhat due to external factors beyond Prokofiev's control). 

The best ones in my mind are without a doubt 2 through 6.


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## KenOC

I have listened to #7 only a few times and found it considerably less interesting than #5 or #6. That may change in the future, of course.


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## elgar's ghost

Prokofiev is having the last laugh with me here and I'm glad he is - although I didn't object to the work I always found it somewhat anticlimactic after the 5th and 6th which, along with the 2nd, were my favourite symphonies by him. However, whenever I listen to the 7th now in isolation it's beginning to dawn on me what a clever piece it is - in a way it seems like Prokofiev is bookending his symphonic output by revisiting the 'purity' of the first symphony even though they have relatively little in common - Prokofiev was browbeaten by ill-health and whatever else by the time he wrote the 7th but I'm wondering if there is something more to it than what previously met my ear.


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## Strange Magic

I have read that, after taking a beating from The Powers That Be for his 6th symphony--the Soviet regime found much to hate in that work--Prokofiev was given a commission to write a simple symphony for either a children's orchestra or for an audience of children (I don't remember which; probably doesn't matter). A sort of self-imposed rehabilitation. The result was the 7th, and it is rather subdued compared with its predecessors, but still P's gift for melody shines forth, especially in that first movement.


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## TxllxT

Strange Magic said:


> I have read that, after taking a beating from The Powers That Be for his 6th symphony--the Soviet regime found much to hate in that work--Prokofiev was given a commission to write a simple symphony for either a children's orchestra or for an audience of children (I don't remember which; probably doesn't matter). A sort of self-imposed rehabilitation. The result was the 7th, and it is rather subdued compared with its predecessors, but still P's gift for melody shines forth, especially in that first movement.


It's amazing what attention the Soviets held for children's education. Not only in music but also in literature. Many averted the bleak prospect of the gulag, by turning themselves towards children... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuil_Marshak
I would applaud a revival of children's cultural education in our times.


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## Strange Magic

TxllxT said:


> It's amazing what attention the Soviets held for children's education. Not only in music but also in literature. Many averted the bleak prospect of the gulag, by turning themselves towards children...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuil_Marshak
> I would applaud a revival of children's cultural education in our times.


Fascinating man, Marshak--I knew nothing of him. Thanks for posting this reference!


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## chesapeake bay

I also listened to this first a few weeks ago as the Saturday Symphony and it is ,to me, all the things that make Prokofiev who he is; clever, inventive and whimsical with surprising melody's.


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## clavichorder

A drop in dissonance and overall wildness does not mean a dip in quality, and I think the 7th is a good example. There is something off and odd about it, and the ideas keep flowing, good ideas at that.


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## clavichorder

elgars ghost said:


> Prokofiev is having the last laugh with me here and I'm glad he is - although I didn't object to the work I always found it somewhat anticlimactic after the 5th and 6th which, along with the 2nd, were my favourite symphonies by him. However, whenever I listen to the 7th now in isolation it's beginning to dawn on me what a clever piece it is - in a way it seems like Prokofiev is bookending his symphonic output by revisiting the 'purity' of the first symphony even though they have relatively little in common - Prokofiev was browbeaten by ill-health and whatever else by the time he wrote the 7th but I'm wondering if there is something more to it than what previously met my ear.


I think you are onto something. The only part of the 7th that I find less gratifying is the finale, to be honest. So I just let that part be fun. The other parts can be taken wholly seriously.


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## EdwardBast

Strange Magic said:


> I have read that, after taking a beating from The Powers That Be for his 6th symphony--the Soviet regime found much to hate in that work--Prokofiev was given a commission to write a simple symphony for either a children's orchestra or for an audience of children (I don't remember which; probably doesn't matter). A sort of self-imposed rehabilitation. The result was the 7th, and it is rather subdued compared with its predecessors, but still P's gift for melody shines forth, especially in that first movement.


Not commissioned for children, but he did begin it with an audience of children in mind. It is not clear, however, whether or to what extent he fulfilled that intention.

The Seventh Symphony stands in the same relation to 5 and 6 as the Ninth Piano Sonata does to the War Sonatas (6, 7, & 8), and if one is looking for a valedictory work by Prokofiev, the Ninth Sonata is, IMO, by far the better work. It was composed during his last period of relatively good health (summer 1947). It is mellow without being lightweight.

The Seventh Symphony sounds to me like the fruits of raiding old notebooks and ballet sketches and what overall unity it has is perfunctory, rounding off the structure without really tying together vital threads, if indeed there are vital threads. Symphonies 5 & 6 and Sonatas 6 & 8, along with the First Violin Sonata, on the other hand, are late essays in comprehensive unity with thematic returns that are dramatically motivated and powerful. The Seventh Symphony is more suite-like and lightweight.


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## clavichorder

Thanks for the recommendation on sonata 9. I have yet to listen to it. Preferred recordings?


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## Il_Penseroso

clavichorder said:


> Thanks for the recommendation on sonata 9. I have yet to listen to it. Preferred recordings?


Richter for sure!


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## Delicious Manager

Il_Penseroso said:


> My favorite recordings of this marvelous symphony:
> 
> Ormandy and The Philadelphia Orchestra for the so-called happy ending (!) Prokofiev later wrote for the approval...
> 
> Rozhdestvensky 1969 Recording for the original quiet ending (I don't know whether it's been reissued on CD or not...)


Yes, the Rozhdestvensky has been remastered and reissued on CD by Melodiya in a boxed set of all his Prokofiev symphony recordings. It sounds great and remains my favourite version of this symphony.

For my money, anyone who plays the appalling 'happy ending' has to be discounted straight away for their wanton failure to understand the work and why Prokofiev bowed to pressure and composed this alternative ending. There is at least one recording with BOTH endings on separate tracks, which is useful for comparison.


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## EdwardBast

clavichorder said:


> Thanks for the recommendation on sonata 9. I have yet to listen to it. Preferred recordings?


Richter did the premier and he does it well. Peter Jablonski does a very nice, unfussy and lyrical 9th. Bronfman does it with a dramatic, sort of relentless(?), edge, but well thought out interpretation. I don't really have a preferred recording I guess. If Boris Giltburg ever gets around to recording it, I'd give that a listen; He is amazing on my favorite, the 8th.


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## WildThing

I recently spent some time becoming better acquainted with Prokofiev's symphonic output, and I'm fully with the OP here. I was surprised how much I found myself enjoying his 7th given everything I had read about it being a kind of "capitulation" and "lightweight". Indeed, apparently it has always been enduringly popular in Russia and its not hard to hear why. Right from that wonderful opening melody that is so quintessentially Russian, it has a wonderful sense of something folksy and a kind of fairy tale quality about it. It may not be grand and heroic or deep and penetrating like the symphonies that precede it, but taken on its own terms it is completely satisfying. Lightweight? Frankly I don't care. The fact that it is so melodious and thoroughly entertaining is more than enough for me.


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## mbhaub

I love the 7th, and prefer the original ending. All of Prokofieff's symphonies are worthy of attention, but it seems that only 1 &5 get played regularly. After 50 years of going to concerts I've still never encountered 2 or 4. I've played only 1, 5 & 7. For my taste, I think Prokofieff's symphonies are "better" than those of Shostakovich - purely as music, but the latter sure gets more attention.


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## Kiki

I don't see Prokofiev 7 as light weight either. There is a kind of very refined and elegant simplicity in it. Really love it.


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## jim prideaux

Kiki said:


> I don't see Prokofiev 7 as light weight either. There is a kind of very refined and elegant simplicity in it. Really love it.


can only agree.....have already 'banged on' about this remarkably evocative work elsewhere....have never understood why some can appear so dismissive about it.


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## Enthusiast

I have always enjoyed the 7th - it was on one of the very first LPs I ever had. I love its broad singing quality. Even now I strongly prefer the Malko recording to any other than I have heard. I enjoy Rozhdestvensky in the others but find him too schmaltzy in 7.


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## Josquin13

Like others on this thread, I consider Prokofiev's 7th to be an underrated symphony (along with the 9th Piano Sonata, which is one of my favorite works by Prokofiev). The two recordings that I listen to most are Nikolai Malko's classic 1950s EMI performance with the Philharmonia, and a recent live Onyx recording from Kyril Karabits and the Bournemouth S.O. If pressed to choose between them, I'd probably take Kyril Karabits' more expansive view of the work (and preferable sound quality)--but the two performances compliment each other well. Interestingly, Karabits includes both endings, using the quieter original ending that Prokofiev said he preferred, but also offering the 2nd ending as a final bonus track:

Karabits: 




Malko: 




P.S. My favorite recordings of Prokofiev's 9th Piano Sonata are, first, the various recordings by Sviatoslav Richter--especially the following: November 16, 1956 Prague--Praga; 1958 Moscow--Monitor, Naxos, Urania, Le Chant de Monde, & Wergo labels; June 8, 1979 Moscow Great Hall of the Conservatory--Melodiya label; and, February 12, 1981 Tokyo--Memoria label. Prokofiev dedicated the 9th to Richter, so he's essential listening in this music. Nikolai Petrov's recording is worth hearing, too. Lastly, from the digital era, Matti Raekallio's recording on Ondine is exceptional. Here's what I could find on YT:

Richter, 1956 Prague (Praga): 



Richter, 1979 Moscow (Melodiya): 



Richter, 1981 Tokyo (Memoria): 




Petrov, 1972: 




Raekallio, 1999:


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## Malx

The Malko recording is a classic - an early stereo recording if I remember correctly, the disc isn't close to hand for me to check. A recording that is always with me in the car.


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## ccar

clavichorder said:


> Any other fans of this oddly marvelous work?


If you want to explore some different versions of the Prokofiev 7th symphony there are a few (not yet mentioned) I believe may also be interesting to listen - Samuil Samosud with the All Russian RO (1953), Nicolai Anosov with the Czech PO (1954) and Vaclav Smetacek also with the Czech PO (1970).

Samosud conducted the premiere and had a close connection with the composer. Anosov may have left one the more idiomatic readings (and despite the vintage mono the sound is still good). And although Smetacek may be a relatively unknown conductor I think his 1970 performance (in very good sound) is also well worth to look for (Le Chant du Monde /Praga).


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## tdc

It is a very nice work, I find it less harmonically spicy, and less unique, intense and colorful than 2-6. But for one looking for a less spiky, calmer side of Prokofiev, this work has those qualities. It does have some very beautiful melodic and harmonic content. I like it less than the others with the exception of 1.


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## Mandryka

WildThing said:


> I recently spent some time becoming better acquainted with Prokofiev's symphonic output, and I'm fully with the OP here. I was surprised how much I found myself enjoying his 7th given everything I had read about it being a kind of "capitulation" and "lightweight". Indeed, apparently it has always been enduringly popular in Russia and its not hard to hear why. Right from that wonderful opening melody that is so quintessentially Russian, it has a wonderful sense of something folksy and a kind of fairy tale quality about it. It may not be grand and heroic or deep and penetrating like the symphonies that precede it, but taken on its own terms it is completely satisfying. Lightweight? Frankly I don't care. The fact that it is so melodious and thoroughly entertaining is more than enough for me.


If you like the 7th symphony then maybe try Cinderella. There's a problem with the 7th to do with the final movement, I can't remember the details offhand but there are two versions of the last movement, and it makes quite a difference.


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## Mandryka

ccar said:


> If you want to explore some different versions of the Prokofiev 7th symphony there are a few (not yet mentioned) I believe may also be interesting to listen - Samuil Samosud with the All Russian RO (1953), Nicolai Anosov with the Czech PO (1954) and Vaclav Smetacek also with the Czech PO (1970).
> 
> Samosud conducted the premiere and had a close connection with the composer. Anosov may have left one the more idiomatic readings (and despite the vintage mono the sound is still good). And although Smetacek may be a relatively unknown conductor I think his 1970 performance (in very good sound) is also well worth to look for (Le Chant du Monde /Praga).


I've been looking for Smetacek'a for years without success; I believe there are two recordings by Anosov.


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## ccar

Mandryka said:


> I've been looking for Smetacek'a for years without success.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honorem-Václav-Smetácek-Sergey-Prokofiev/dp/B000027OBT


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## WildThing

Mandryka said:


> If you like the 7th symphony then maybe try Cinderella. There's a problem with the 7th to do with the final movement, I can't remember the details offhand but there are two versions of the last movement, and it makes quite a difference.


Oh trust me, I absolutely adore Cinderella as well! I agree that both have that same sort of autumnal, magical aura.


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## Kiki

Mandryka said:


> ...... There's a problem with the 7th to do with the final movement, I can't remember the details offhand but there are two versions of the last movement, and it makes quite a difference.


The quiet ending vs the festive ending? I lean more towards the quiet ending, but the festive ending seems no harm. They do make the mood sound very different though. Given that Prokofiev wrote the festive ending only to earn his living, and he in fact preferred the quiet ending, maybe it's not so much a can of worms for us... :lol:


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## MarkW

When I first got the Rozhdestvensky recording eons ago, I found it initially engaging, but overplayed it and began to find it dippy. Ditto for "Cinderella." But to each his own.


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## cherylhorne

I listen to this frequently and never fails to impress. Truly magnificent...


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## Enthusiast

_Deleted post - I had already written something very similar in this thread a while ago._


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