# Dvorak - Complete Slavonic Dances - a listening project



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

As a follow up to my Brahms Hungarian Dances set I'd like to throw this out to you. It's another little listening project to take up some more of this rather dull self-isolation. Like last time, here is a *complete set of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances for you to listen to and comment on as you wish. You don't have to discuss the performances if you don't wish. This is not a standard 'blind comparison' and you may just wish to comment on particular dances that you particularly enjoy.* Each conductor / orchestra has 3 dances each (except the last combo gets 4 dances) and the 3 dances run concurrently (so 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12, 13-16).

So have a listen, make any comments about the recordings or the dances, in general, but don't mention the artists involved if you do recognise them. It's not a quiz, it's not intended to catch anyone out and you get to listen to a compilation of 5 very good performances rolled into one. By all means say which triplets of dances particularly caught your ear, etc. I'll reveal, to those who want to know, who the performers are when interest slacks off. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

All files are 320k mp3.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xsq97zv982bvje7/AAC0gY5mz1QnUEjJWg2JNMrNa?dl=0


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Downloaded. Will listen tonight!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

A couple listening already. Any other takers?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The whole set was wonderful when Szell first recorded them in the late '60s, but as a former radio announcer I laugh to myself whenever I hear an isolated one on the radio -- because they have always made great "fillers' to fill out an hour, and are still used that way.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

What fun, and mostly a pleasure. I don’t own a complete set of the Op. 46 and Op. 72 dances, so some of these are much more familiar to me than others due to my CD collection, but some are just more familiar to the general public than others through radio air time and their frequent appearance on concert programs, especially as encore pieces.

I am pro-Dvořák for sure. To me, he has an earthy genuineness that sets him apart from more ethereal and intellectual late Romantics. That these pieces are dances makes them particularly down-to-earth compared to symphonic works, IMO. These thoughts are the bases for my evaluations of the recordings at hand.

1) Op. 46, No. 1: Familiar piece, this performance moves along with grace and some swing, appropriate for the dance genre. Very fine playing by all orchestra sections. Like it a lot.
2) Op. 46, No. 2: Another familiar one, like the restraint, not OTT, but still swinging and interesting. Beautiful flute, lush strings make it a special pleasure.
3) Op. 46, No. 3: Less well-known, especially excellent playing that I totally enjoy, featuring the winds and brass combining to achieve a memorable result. The lush strings then come back. Really happy about this one.
- Summary of A group: This conductor/orchestra really work great for me. The interpretation is solid and the playing is top-notch.

4) Op. 46, No. 4: One of the most well-known of these dances. Heavier on the brass than I’m accustomed to, with an overall less full sound than I would want. Dragging tempo. Wondering if unfamiliarity makes this not work well for me. No, it’s just that I don’t like this recording, though I love the piece.
5) Op. 46, No. 5: Not familiar to me, and not as catchy and animated as the dances I like. Perhaps some conductor/orchestra could do something favorable with this piece, but this is not it.
6) Op. 46, No. 6: I like this dance a lot. This recording is better than the previous two in the group, but thin and brooding rather than lush and happy as I would have liked.
- Summary of B group: Definitely not what I would like to listen to in any respect.

7) Op. 46, No. 7: Familiar. Love the winds at the beginning! Then it really heats up. Well, this works perfectly for me. Tempi flirting with too slow and too fast but never crossing the line, always tasteful. Exciting music!
8) Op. 46, No. 8: Very familiar. Quite fast, more excitement. Beautiful interplay of winds and brass and marvelous orchestral textures throughout. Low brass especially impressive.
9) Op. 72, No. 1: Less familiar. Strings relatively prominent, very lush and moving. Perfect performance.
- Summary of C group: Here’s the one for me. I’ve never heard these dances done better.

10) Op. 72, No. 2: Familiar. Slow and thoughtful, and I’m thinking, “C’mon, this is Dvořák, not Tchaikowsky! And it’s a dance, not a symphony!” The composer’s happy writing is made to sound deliberate. Not flowing freely. Seemed to last forever. This was a genuinely unpleasant listening experience.
11) Op. 72, No. 3: Less familiar. Everything about it sounds pulled back, not propelling itself forward. Frustrating and boring listening.
12) Op. 72, No. 4: Familiar, but so slow and peculiar as to be almost unrecognizable. This dance is performed like the largo movement of a symphony. Searching for pathos that just isn’t there in the writing.
- Summary of D group: No, absolutely wrong. Never want to hear these recordings again.

13) Op. 72, No. 5: Oops, here’s a tinny-sounding apparently early recording. Not one of the most familiar dances. No problems with the performance, but the sound quality was distracting.
14) Op. 72, No. 6: Back to modern recordings with good sound quality. The playing is great, but it sounds maestoso, which doesn’t suit the material IMO. They’re going for “soaring” when the dances are down on the earth.
15) Op. 72, No. 7: Not familiar to me. A fun dance, I like the playfulness. Better, more straightforward performance than the last one.
16) Op. 72, No. 8: Also less familiar. This is played slowly and tenderly, which works for this particular dance. Nice double bass part, good soundstage that lets the winds and brass come through nicely.
- Summary E group: I would not choose these recordings for my collection because I don’t agree with the maestoso interpretations. The playing and sound are great, though the first one is an outlier.

Overall order of preference with respect to the groups: C, A (really liked), E (could live with), B, D (seriously do not like).

Thank you, Merl, for putting this together!

Franz


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

seitzpf said:


> What fun, and mostly a pleasure. I don't own a complete set of the Op. 46 and Op. 72 dances, so some of these are much more familiar to me than others due to my CD collection, but some are just more familiar to the general public than others through radio air time and their frequent appearance on concert programs, especially as encore pieces.
> 
> I am pro-Dvořák for sure. To me, he has an earthy genuineness that sets him apart from more ethereal and intellectual late Romantics. That these pieces are dances makes them particularly down-to-earth compared to symphonic works, IMO. These thoughts are the bases for my evaluations of the recordings at hand.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's a great summary (although I don't agree with you on all of them).:lol: Thanks Franz.


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

Again, I have two sets of these (well, 1 and 13/16 sets) and I'm not sure either are in these groups. I don't have a lot to say on these, but I did enjoy the experience and thanks again for putting these together. 

Most of my comments are negative though all the performances struck me as being at least good enough to quite good - it was just easier to notice those parts in this case.

1st group (1-3): The sound of the first track in the first set is not sharp (semi-older recording?) and seems okay but a bit slow and ponderous in the faster/heavier parts - a bit of an elephant in a tutu. (Also, after making the above observation, I noticed that it apparently gave away who it was in the video display of vlc so I switched to playing them in mplayer.*) The slower, softer parts work better in this but seem to miss some "tunefulness" even so. Regarding all three tracks, it does seem like it's going after the right attitude or mood, though. And you would have to really botch it to seriously impair these great pieces.

2nd group (4-6): Mostly nice performance but the strings sound thin in parts and, though it's probably more of a production issue, it sounds a little flat/lacking in dynamic range. Something nice is that it doesn't let vigor tip over into bombast - Dvorak excels at walking that tightrope. I like it, but No. 6 isn't very successful, to me. Need more of a lilt in the light parts and a little more gravitas in the fuller parts.

3rd group (7-9): No. 7 needs a certain amble and swing that this doesn't have. And, for instance, the tempo and loudness changes should have more contrast where this, generally, relatively, sort of blurs them together. As did the three pieces.

4th group (10-12): Nice lyricism and this is the opposite in terms of tempo and loudness that I was talking about - it's the best, so far. The audio quality seemed to drop in the last two tracks of this group for some reason. The performance of the second track in this set is fine (maybe a little breathless). The third is also very nice.

5th group (13-16): Another older-sounding recording to me. Fine performances, though I can't think of anything to say about them.

Group rankings: 4 5 1 2 3 

As far as my favorite compositions, I like all of these sets and probably like them even more than Brahms' set of Hungarian Dances (though I might not say that tomorrow and maybe it's pointless to try to pick). For individual dances, maybe Op. 46, Nos. 1-4, 7-8 and Op. 72 Nos. 1-2, 4, and 6 are probably my very favorites, though it's hard to say when you don't really dislike any.

* On further examination after writing this up, it does seem to give something away, but not that.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I only have one partial set of these pieces, so many of them were new to me. As such, I cannot compare them to other renditions.

But as far as recording quality goes, the 13-16 set was the one that created the most bass resonance in my MDR-Z7 cans. Therefore they were the ones that caught my ear the most. Great detail. I would not have thought they were older recordings as some here seem to.

Overall, a fun project, and I am looking forward to the "answers" so that I might plan a future purchase.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I’ve been slow in going through them.

Group 1. 1-3
Big romantic civilised reading? Folk dancing in tux? I don't know how to describe it. It's not really bad. (Although I kept looking for some satirical way in my mind to describe it.) Beautiful and lyrical, good rhythm as well, but little passion. I was left in a perplexed state after listening to this group.

Group 2. 4-6
Light and agile. Lyrical and fun as well. Love the cymbal balance here, and the bo-bo-bo-bo horns in the background in #6. Really impressed by #6 in fact. At this point I stopped and went to the #6s that I have got, and I found all of them trying too hard when compared to this #6. The performance in this group does lack a bit in the excitement department, but I like its delicate way.

Will try to go through the rest this weekend.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Continuing…

Group 3. 7-9
Quite similar to group 2. Specifically about Op. 72 No. 1, it's a bit slow in the slower passage, but that makes a good contrast with the louder, more festive music. Sounds symphonic.

Group 4. 10-12
Awesome strings. Romantic sound. Slower than I'd have liked. The speed-up towards the end of Op.72 No. 3 is nice though.

Group 5. 13-16
Similar impression to the last group… Honestly I found groups 4 & 5 a bit boring. Maybe it has something to do with the music in Op. 72 as well.

Overall I like the performances of groups 2 and 3 the most. I am not too keen on the rest.

Honestly, much of the music in the Slavonic Dances doesn't go nuts. (In a way Brahms' Hungarian Dances are "nuttier".) I also think the music in Op.72 sounds less fresh than Op. 46. That might also have tilted my preference towards groups 2 and 3.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'll give the answers later if no one else is taking part.


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## Common Listener (Apr 6, 2019)

Kiki said:


> I also think the music in Op.72 sounds less fresh than Op. 46. That might also have tilted my preference towards groups 2 and 3.


While I leaned towards those performances you didn't think as much of and I like Op. 72, I agree that he may have just been going to the well again. Op. 46 is my favorite set, too.



Merl said:


> I'll give the answers later if no one else is taking part.


I hope others jump in but, either way, I look forward to the "answers"!


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Common Listener said:


> While I leaned towards those performances you didn't think as much of and I like Op. 72, I agree that he may have just been going to the well again. Op. 46 is my favorite set, too.


That shows how different our preferences are.  I believe the success of Op. 46 led him to writing Op. 72, and while Op. 72 is good, it sounds less spontaneous (or more sophisticated depending on how one sees it  ). And I agree with you about him going to the well again.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Yep, agreed that Czech Tony's first set of Slavonic Dances is better but op. 72 is hardly shoddy (a case of the tricky 2nd album but I reckon he pulled it off). Anyway, apologies if a few of these showed up in Media Player even though I removed all meta data, etc in tag & rename (perhaps it was because I've ripped all three sets to the car USB before... Who knows. So, I'm guessing you want to know the performers? As I said, I have all these sets and like them but some are special for me. Interesting that you liked different performances. Here's the performers and my thoughts on these. 

1-3 Belohlavek / Czech PO
A decent set but I rarely play it, tbh. I don't think Belohlavek fully gets to the heart of these dances but the Czechs play beautifully for him and generally it's a good introduction to the Dances but there are many that are better.
4-6 Sejna / Czech PO
One of my favourite sets. The Czech PO (again?) are on fire in this one and Sejna gets lots of spirited playing from them. For me, Sejna's spirited 1959 set still sits near the top of the tree for these work along with Szell, Kubelik, Mackerras and the next recording.
7-9 Segerstam / Rheinland Pfalz
If you haven't got this set then get it. This one came out on BIS in 1988 and its a lovely, largely unknown and superbly played disc. Most people wouldn't believe its Segerstam but he really gets to the heart of the Dances and his orchestra play these as if they were Czechs. Recommended enthusiastically.
10-12 Neumann / Czech PO
Yep, it's those pesky Czechs again but this time under the baton of Neumann. Another older set and one that few people talk about but again its another winner. On first hearing this set didn't set my world on fire but returning to it you're struck by Neumann's unmannered, cool, straight down the line approach. As always, charming playing from the Czech PO.
13-16 Dohnanyi / Cleveland
This one got rave reviews back in the days of the the Penguin Guide and whilst it's not my favourite set here it's certainly a very good one. Perhaps I should have given Dohnanyi some of the earlier dances as that's where I feel he's best but it's a strong set nethertheless.

So there you go. Thanks to all those who took part in this. I have so many sets of the Slavonic Dances it was tough to choose which ones to use but I hope I gave you a good cross-section. My personal ranking of the complete sets here is...

1st - Sejna (but only just)
2nd - Segerstam
3rd - Neumann
4th - Dohnanyi
5th - Belohlavek


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Thanks Merl! That was fun!

The Šejna is a surprise. (His Martinů as I know is rather intense stuff.) Out of curiosity I listened to his Op. 46 on youtube. There is no bombast at all. Nimble and graceful. I'm very impressed. Again, that No. 6! It's not like any No. 6 I've heard before. Very addictive as well.


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