# How did the masters compose



## Ludwig Von Chumpsky (Apr 19, 2018)

We hear the finished product. But did the great composers have orchestras at their disposal to write, listen, revise, listen, rewrite, etc.?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The situation has been different from composer to composer, and circumstances to circumstances ... but often they didn´t have much access to orchestral rehearsals. The piano has often been a substitute for an orchestra when composing. 

Obviously Haydn for example had plenty such possibilities, due to having his "own" orchestra at Eszterhazy etc. Generally, pre-Romantic music was often more connected with concrete performance options.

Harry Partch (20th century) to some extent simply created his own instruments/orchestra ...

I´m afraid however that your question is much too general.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Some did. Brahms had trial runs of his symphonies and then would go back and revise orchestration and other details to get what he wanted. Mahler the same. Others were more secure - or careless - in their writing. They wrote it as they heard it and left it to the conductor and orchestra to make it work. Dvorak and Tchaikovsky rarely revised, and didn't need to that much. In earlier music this wasn't an issue: writing for an orchestra like Haydn and Mozart was pretty simple compared to the monstrous scores of R. Strauss, Mahler, Stravinsky and such. Today, for many composers getting a hearing is really, really difficult. Orchestra time is valuable. There are some groups that set aside time to read - not rehearse - music so composers can get an idea of what they've put down. I play with one that does this, usually in June. We just select from submitted scores and give it a run. Hopefully, the composer can learn something from it. Woe to any composer who thinks a computer generated sound file is anywhere close to what a real orchestra will sound like!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Most of the real work is done in the composer's head -- or at the piano. Hearing it with an orchestra, either at a run-through, rehearsal, or performance, most often just exposes weaknesses in orchestration, which get addressed for better (Mahler) or worse (Schumann).

Occasionally a contemporary work will be found to be just plain unplayable.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

There are a couple of great CDs of Sibelius which give us his first thoughts and final thoughts on the violin concerto and 5th symphony. He made very radical changes, losing some very good music in the process (which must have been tough for him), but the end result was much stronger.


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