# Musicians you don't like.



## Harvey

Any musicans you don't like?
Share your thoughts!

I'll start with...Richard Clayderman.

And now I have to back it up...Okay, I've read somewhere that he brought piano playing to the masses, and some people learned to play the piano by listening to Clayderman. Well that's all good...until you start looking for some music. I find his style too monotonous, repetitive, boring, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................Hey. Nothing wrong with playing Gounod in sixths, changing the rhythm, and adding some percussion, _but if you play the first four measures over and over and over again, it's gonna annoy people._


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## godzillaviolist

*hmm*

Atleast he's not playing Mahler in tritones 

I cannot say she is a bad player, but I think Du Pre was an overrated 'cellist. Yes, she _did_ popularise the Elgar 'cello concerto, and I'm glad she did. Now there is practically a 'cellist on every street corner playing the Elgar  . But her tone seems rather harsh to my ears. As though she trying to set the 'cello on fire through friction burns  
Also, jazz saxophonists who play classical. They never have the right tone.
godzilla


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## Daniel

Du Près is for me best cellist ever...such a natural and emotional tone, the music lives,....and I felt also in love with the Elgar because of her... 

I don't like Cziffra or Hamelin...you only hear finger, superb technique yes, but I cannot hear the "music"...


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## James

Daniel said:


> Du Près is for me best cellist ever...such a natural and emotional tone, the music lives,....and I felt also in love with the Elgar because of her...
> 
> I don't like Cziffra or Hamelin...you only hear finger, superb technique yes, but I cannot hear the "music"...


This is a musicians you don't like thread?


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## MustPractice

Harvey said:


> Any musicans you don't like?
> Share your thoughts!
> 
> I'll start with...Richard Clayderman.
> i]


That tops it all!


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## toughcritic

Haa. Clyderman, it's funny. I didn't know you can even mention him in a classical music forum. How about Yani ?


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## FoggyRoad81

Sarah Chang, BLECH, I don't get it. So not musical, so boring so passionless, even when she's beating up her violin going for that enormous sound. 

Maxim Vengerov. I only recently became so fed up with him. It was his Saint Saens no 3 recording. UGH, what the hell went wrong there? He's abused his instrument to the point it can hardly produce a nice ringing tone without cracking in the most horrid places and didn't anyone tell him this is a juicy bit of lyrical genius not the Shostakovich? HORRID player.


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## Frasier

Hah! Ok then, James Galway.


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## Lisztfreak

Frasier said:


> Hah! Ok then, James Galway.


Why? He plays his parts in the LotR soundtrack so beautifully!


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## Mark Harwood

Sting. I'll not list the reasons why; suffice it to say, everything about him.


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## oisfetz

Martha. Can't stand her. She always run.Maybe she has diarrhaoea every time she seats
at the piano,and must end the soon as posible to go to the bath.


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## Manuel

> Martha. Can't stand her. She always run.Maybe she has diarrhaoea every time she seats
> at the piano,and must end the soon as posible to go to the bath.


But what a huge ammount of music she has produced prior to running away...

I've seen her live doing Prok's 3rd, and counts as one of the most exciting experiences in my short life.

After watching Lang Lang taking a master class with Barenboim, on the Appassionata, I think I won't like Lang Lang at all. To the point that I've never bothered purchasing his recordings (not even downloading them for free).


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## Giovannimusica

Actually there is one musician that makes me want to gag and that is *Yawni*(Yanni). What he delves in is pure and smarmy unctuousness - YECH!!!!!!!


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## Morigan

Nigel Kennedy..?!?

What's with the weird edgy look? And why does he have to add stupid little eccentric ornaments to Vivaldi's music to make it sound original? If you don't like the good old stuff, just play modern stuff.


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## Manuel

> If you don't like the good old stuff, just play modern stuff.


If you don't like the _good old stuff _being played as _modern stuff_, just skip it.


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## Morigan

Well, this thread is about ranting and personal opinions, anyway.


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## Kurkikohtaus

I don't like the assistant principal viola in my orchestra. She's always complaining and complaining and complaining. However, she is a good player, which is positive but also prevents me from having ammunition against her.
____________________________________________________________________
More down the mainstream, I don't like Andre Rieu. Too much fuss about too little.


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## Luximus

FoggyRoad81 said:


> Sarah Chang, BLECH, I don't get it. So not musical, so boring so passionless, even when she's beating up her violin going for that enormous sound.
> 
> Maxim Vengerov. I only recently became so fed up with him. It was his Saint Saens no 3 recording. UGH, what the hell went wrong there? He's abused his instrument to the point it can hardly produce a nice ringing tone without cracking in the most horrid places and didn't anyone tell him this is a juicy bit of lyrical genius not the Shostakovich? HORRID player.


Maxim Vengerov! thank you! I find his overly-exaggurated facial expressions annoying. Have you seen him play le Dance des Lutins? Uggh, horrible. I don't like his style nad his face isn't helping the matter at all.


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## Morigan

Luximus said:


> Maxim Vengerov! thank you! I find his overly-exaggurated facial expressions annoying. Have you seen him play le Dance des Lutins? Uggh, horrible. I don't like his style nad his face isn't helping the matter at all.


God, I saw a few of his videos yesterday. You're absolutely right, his stupid facial expressions are incredibly obnoxious. Not to mention his style.


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## Guest

He should try a clown nose!


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## World Violist

I know almost every person who reads this is going to attempt to shoot me, but here goes...

I honestly don't like... Jascha Heifetz  .

Here are my reasons:
Yes, I do like his Mendelssohn and Tchaikovsky, and his Paganini, but his Brahms Violin Concerto is horrifying! He plays every note as though going "Oh, this is nothing. Just you wait for my cadenza!!!"
He sounds like a freakin' robot. Little to no expression in his slow music, unless it's fairly straightforward. It's why I like his Bach Double and Brahms Double, but not the Mozart Sinfonia Concertante: he lacks the proper proportion of expression to structure in several pieces.

Heifetz has his purposes, and I like quite a bit of his music, but there are several more pieces that he plays that I just can't stomach.

Seriously.

Stop giving me wierd looks!

You may now proceed to load your pistols, sharpen your sharp objects, and otherwise try to do me lethal harm for disrespecting Jascha Heifetz.


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## Luximus

World Violist said:


> I know almost every person who reads this is going to attempt to shoot me, but here goes...
> 
> I honestly don't like... Jascha Heifetz  .
> 
> Here are my reasons:
> Yes, I do like his Mendelssohn and Tchaikovsky, and his Paganini, but his Brahms Violin Concerto is horrifying! He plays every note as though going "Oh, this is nothing. Just you wait for my cadenza!!!"
> He sounds like a freakin' robot. Little to no expression in his slow music, unless it's fairly straightforward. It's why I like his Bach Double and Brahms Double, but not the Mozart Sinfonia Concertante: he lacks the proper proportion of expression to structure in several pieces.
> 
> Heifetz has his purposes, and I like quite a bit of his music, but there are several more pieces that he plays that I just can't stomach.
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> Stop giving me wierd looks!
> 
> You may now proceed to load your pistols, sharpen your sharp objects, and otherwise try to do me lethal harm for disrespecting Jascha Heifetz.


Nah, I respect your opinion, as music has no rights or wrongs, only perceptions. Jascha heifeta, to me, is the master of violin technique, not necessarily expressiveness. In musicianship, I prefer Oistrakh and Stern(back in his prime) simply because of the emotions i feel through their playing. Heifetz' style of playing suits the likes of Paganini and Wieniawski and he plays a bit too fastb in my opinion. Nonethlss, he is one of my favorites due to his impeccable technique and expression. His vibrato is quite nice and his trills! Like a birdsong.


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## World Violist

Luximus said:


> Nah, I respect your opinion, as music has no rights or wrongs, only perceptions. Jascha heifeta, to me, is the master of violin technique, not necessarily expressiveness. In musicianship, I prefer Oistrakh and Stern(back in his prime) simply because of the emotions i feel through their playing. Heifetz' style of playing suits the likes of Paganini and Wieniawski and he plays a bit too fastb in my opinion. Nonethlss, he is one of my favorites due to his impeccable technique and expression. His vibrato is quite nice and his trills! Like a birdsong.


Oh, I agree with you in that respect; I don't know a whole lot about Oistrakh or Stern's playing, but another player who I can feel emotinally is Menuhin. Another not-quite-so-popular person based on the feelings of the people I know, but I love how he just plays- it just sounds right...


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## Luximus

World Violist said:


> Oh, I agree with you in that respect; I don't know a whole lot about Oistrakh or Stern's playing, but another player who I can feel emotinally is Menuhin. Another not-quite-so-popular person based on the feelings of the people I know, but I love how he just plays- it just sounds right...


Well Menuhin is a great violinist...very expressive. his playing style reminds me of air and gracefulness...I think he's always been a gentleman. in fact, he played for many american soldiers during WWII and was an active humanitarian. He was honoured by many top universities, including Oxford and Cambridge. But his playing just doesn't compare to David oistrakh and isaac stern, for me. you should really listen to them play!


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## Leporello87

Richard Stoltzman.


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## jacobedmund

*Artists*

Hi
I agree with you. I also dislike Richard clayderman. His style too monotonous, repetitive, boring, He has no change in style. He doesn't change his rhythm. I like Eminem very much. His rhythm and style both are very good. I like the song How you remind me.


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## Luximus

jacobedmund said:


> Hi
> I agree with you. I also dislike Richard clayderman. His style too monotonous, repetitive, boring, He has no change in style. He doesn't change his rhythm. I like Eminem very much. His rhythm and style both are very good. I like the song How you remind me.


Uh.....Eminem? You know this is a classical music forum, right?


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## gigspeak

*Egos and musicians*

I don't like it when hot young violinists milk their appearance for all its worth... I get tired of the idea that sex sells Vivaldi (!!) I believe that true musicians don't let their ego get in the way of the music. 

Tom


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## Morigan

gigspeak said:


> I don't like it when hot young violinists milk their appearance for all its worth... I get tired of the idea that sex sells Vivaldi (!!) I believe that true musicians don't let their ego get in the way of the music.
> 
> Tom


I agree...

But then again, if I were to release a violin CD, I'd want to look my best on the cover. Anyway, I prefer when artists put a picture of the composer or a painting instead of using an artsy-fartsy photoshopped picture of themselves as a cover.


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## JohnM

I'd have to agree that I don't really "get" Nigel Kennedy - sure, he's a great violinist but a very false character.


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## Amy

Yehudi Menuhin. I appreciate that he is a fantastic musician and I enjoy listening to him; however, in regard to musicians I don't like he goes right to the top of my list, simply because of what he did to Beethoven's 9th and Haydn's creation whn he conducted them... Oh and Hayley Westenra. She and her voice irritate me.


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## Guest

Amy said:


> Hayley Westenra. She and her voice irritate me.


Hard luck ! I met her last week, and she spokes well of you…
She told me you were so nice…


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## Amy

Aw I feel so mean now  She's coming to my hometown in a few weeks too. Perhaps I should give her a chance to redeem herself?


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## Guest

Amy said:


> Perhaps I should give her a chance to redeem herself?


I think she can't.
In fact, I agree with you, and wrote it just to be provocative.


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## Lisztfreak

Amy said:


> Yehudi Menuhin. I appreciate that he is a fantastic musician and I enjoy listening to him; however, in regard to musicians I don't like he goes right to the top of my list, simply because of what he did to Beethoven's 9th and Haydn's creation whn he conducted them...


What did he do exactly?


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## Mark Harwood

Ludovico Einaudi's vapid little musings do nothing for me except cause vague irritation.
And as for Myleene Klass... her manager must be a genius.


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## LaciDeeLeBlanc

I do not have issue with Andrea Boccelli himself, however, the accompaniment on his albums is awful. The accompaniment music is frankly weak, repetitive, and uninteresting. It sounds as if someone just threw something together with a sick notion that it would do. No, I rarely listen to Andrea Boccelli because of his accompaniment.


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## Kurkikohtaus

LaciDeeLeBlanc said:


> I do not have issue with Andrea Boccelli himself...


I also have nothing against Boccelli himself, but I have something against the _Industry_ that makes a star out of a mediocre, out-of-tune singer.


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## Rondo

ha! No one has mentioned such pioneers of the _pseudo_classical genre such as Kenny G and Yanni. As a matter of fact, Im tired of seeing about 3 dozen of their albums every time I shop for CDs in the store. They should get their own little section!!!


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## LaciDeeLeBlanc

Eric683 said:


> ha! No one has mentioned such pioneers of the _pseudo_classical genre such as Kenny G and Yanni. As a matter of fact, Im tired of seeing about 3 dozen of their albums every time I shop for CDs in the store. They should get their own little section!!!


Blahh!! You are so right!!! I can't believe I didn't think of this. I don't really know what to think about Yanni but Kenny G has none of my respect as a musician.


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## World Violist

At least Kenny G's a really good golfer...


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## ilikepie

=/ I'll have to say Lang Lang. Kung-fu style piano playing. Just... weird


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## Manuel

ilikepie said:


> =/ I'll have to say Lang Lang. Kung-fu style piano playing. Just... weird


The first (and only) time I've watched Lang Lang was in a Youtube video taken from his masterclass with Barenboim. He was trying to play the Appassionata... the results were so awful I promised myself not to get any of his cds.


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## Manuel

Two valid reasons to hate Lang Lang


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## matt78

I'd agree with previous postings about Lang Lang. Superficially, his playing his impressive but when you listen to him playing music you know, its clear that he is often not understanding its meaning OR playing the right notes. As someone who worships the playing of Clifford Curzon and Claudio Arrau, I can't stand hearing Lang punish the piano as he does. 

I have a particular dislike for singers who are marketed as opera stars but have never even sung a complete role on stage. Step forward Bocelli, Potts, Watson, and Jenkins as prime suspects. They all lack real vocal quality and they just don't show any understanding of the characterisation of the music. I've read so many people praising Bocelli's ability to communicate, but to me he sounds completely souless and cold and his atrocious vocal technique only makes matters worse.

Another musician I can't get on with is Ivo Pogorelich because he takes far too many liberties and imposes himself on the music to the point of suffocation.


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## Manuel

matt78 said:


> I'd agree with previous postings about Lang Lang. Superficially, his playing his impressive but when you listen to him playing music you know, its clear that he is often not understanding its meaning OR playing the right notes. As someone who worships the playing of Clifford Curzon and Claudio Arrau, I can't stand hearing Lang punish the piano as he does.


What do you find so interesting in Clifford Curzon? What can you say against this?



Pianophiles said:


> I feel that Curzon's reputation has been "blown up" in the British
> press, and one reason would be because he is British, period. It has
> been argued that the Penguin Guide bestows its hallowed Rosette to a
> disproportionately large number of British artists as well.





> Another musician I can't get on with is Ivo Pogorelich (...)


Shame on you.  
Never heard his _Gaspard de la Nuit_?
I agree his interpretations are excessively personal, but he does a monumental expressive work too; and that should not be overlooked.


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## matt78

Manuel said:


> What do you find so interesting in Clifford Curzon? What can you say against this?


Curzon listened to every sound that he made and consequently his playing is finely controlled yet full of colour and interest, all within the boundaries of the composer's work. For me, Curzon is one of the greatest of all pianists and woefully under-rated. His Decca recording of the Liszt Sonata is wonderful. All the things that Curzon does so well, are the things that Lang doesn't do at all. Lang bangs outrageously and there is just no sense of the music having an over-arching shape.



Manuel said:


> Shame on you.
> Never heard his _Gaspard de la Nuit_?
> I agree his interpretations are excessively personal, but he does a monumental expressive work too; and that should not be overlooked.


I haven't heard his Gaspard and so I reserve judgement on that (although I like Perlemuter best in Ravel), but I have heard his Tchaikovsky 1st concerto and some of his Chopin and, to me, his expressiveness is so extreme that it works in opposition to the music. Why listen to Pogorelich pulling Chopin around beyond recognition when there are such wonderful recordings by Lipatti, Rubinstein, Arrau, and Zimerman to enjoy which are all the more convincingly expressive for their greater restraint and understanding of the score.


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## World Violist

Now Maxim Vengerov is one of my least favorite musicians. His performance of Ravel's Tzigane was the only thing I remotely like of his. He's just sloppy. That's all there is to it.


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## hey hi hello

Ohh, give Vengerov a break! When he manages to not play sloppy, it's wonderful. Ignore the faces and just listen. If you go on youtube look at his performance of Dvorak's violin concerto or even his teenage performance of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. pls?


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## World Violist

There are many far better performances of both concerti. Though I must admit I did kind of like his "Ronde des Lutins." Another person I can't quite get around is Nathan Milstein. He's just TOO crisp and clean, it almost sounds a bit flaky to me. I'd rather hear a performance by Menuhin or Oistrakh or Stern. They're all great, but Milstein just sounds like he's overly concerned about the notes... there are his great pieces, but they aren't terribly many from what I've heard of him.


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## jake.robson

sarah brightman. 'nuff said


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## Rondo

Someone linked to a particular conductor whom I really dislike yesterday. The attention was directed toward the piece, which Youtube lacks any really good performances of anyway.


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## David C Coleman

If one can include conductors here?...Maximianno Cobra (Nuff said)!!


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## Methodistgirl

Rock and roll musicians who tear up their instruments after a performance.
I think that's very wasteful. Maybe some fan out in the audience would like
to have that guitar or drum or amp with the guitar from their favorite band.
judy tooley


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## oisfetz

I don't like Evgeni Svetlanov conducting. He plays all fast,fast,fast. Adagios
he plays andantes. Andantes he plays allegro, and allegro he plays presto.
But he was a very fine pianist.


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## shsherm

One of the most despicable people who receives tremendous adulation and has societies devoted to him and his works was Richard Wagner. I was a member of the Wagner society of Dallas until last year and now I am a member of the Wagner Society of Southern California. His compositions are worthy of admiration but the person who wrote them is a rotten skunk of a human being. I joined these societies in order to meet other classical music enthusiasts and not to honor this blatherskite.


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## Ludovyk

Daniel Barenboim: I cannot stand him: a complete fraud as a musician, in my opinion. He could have been a good pianist, which he is not anymore.. And as a conductor he has always been a mediocre one, despite his titularship in Chicago.

Giuseppe Sinopoli: I still recall what a boredom in his concerts... which I attended just because of the glorious Staatskapelle Dresden.

The last names I have put in my black list have been: Franz Welser-Möst (I had to quit an Alpine Symphony, but probably I will give him another chance) and Daniele Gatti (what a vacuous musician... no redemption seems possible in this case).


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## trojan-rabbit

LANG LANG!!!!

I respect his skill, but I absolutely despise his showmanship!


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## R-F

If anyone has heard Lang Lang playing Liszts Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, they'll agree that he plays it ridiculously fast. There are other pianists that deserve the fame he has.


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## oisfetz

If you want to listen to a very clever and funny HR No.2, get the difficult
Horowit'z arrangement. It's as hard to play as Liszt's.


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## Mayerl

Ludovyk, I strongly suspect that you have absolutely no idea how comically patronising are your remarks on Daniel Barenboim. "He could have been a good pianist" you say; instead of what, a brilliant one. "A mediocre conductor"; I really think you should take a long hard look at others out there before passing judgement. Merely "good" pianists and "mediocre" conductors would hardly have survived a 40 year plus career as Barenboim has. I have to ask myself how you set the standard.
If, by any remote chance, your own musical credentials are at least the equivalent of those of Mr Barenboim, I shall retract the tone of the above comments!!


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## oisfetz

IMHO, Baremboin is mediocre pianist and conductor.
I've never listen to him on something I like. To me,he
is superficial,full of mannerisms and arbitrary. And his long 
career means nothing. except that many people like his
weackness. But I admit that he knows how to sell himself.


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## Kezza

I really don't like Andre Rieu
That guy is a pure showman. All he is is lights, pretty colours and beautiful women. He Doesn't seem to get into the music as much as others. Like Perlman for instance. That man is fantastic.
Andre should pass his strad to someone who will make real music.


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## SamGuss

As much as I like Cello music; as much as he has an incredible repitore from what I have seen... I am not a fan of Yo-Yo Ma. I try to compare pieces and in every case so far I have simply enjoyed the other person I was comparing him to every time. It is odd as I enjoy Cello pieces so much and logically I know he is considered one of the best, but when I compre him to other Celloist so far... Even more so on pieces he does that is also done by Rostropvich or Du Pre, I find myself enjoying the other person more. One of these days I am going to try and listen to him blind and see if it is just a visual thing for me (I am actually setting this up with my sweetheart on a variety of conductors, performers and ensembles to see if/what influence is caused by visual versus audible).


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## World Violist

I can agree with you, Sam, up to a degree, but if you've seen him perform Dvorak's concerto (and I mean _seen_ him), I think you'll find that he's almost as much as he's cracked up to be.

Admittedly, he really doesn't show nearly as much depth as the greats: du Pre, Slava, Casals...

I can_not_ stand Joshua Bell. I don't care what all you others have to say about him, I will not be so forgiving for him... and Andre Rieu as well.

Why is it that nobody from today can stand up to the phenomena of yesterday???


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## trojan-rabbit

World Violist said:


> I can agree with you, Sam, up to a degree, but if you've seen
> 
> Why is it that nobody from today can stand up to the phenomena of yesterday???


Quite!

I think the greats sort of died with Horowitz. Van Cliburn is still kicking, but he's not nearly as public as Horowitz was at his age.


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## shsherm

Sad to say but Van Cliburn's skills have declined. I heard him fill in for an ill pianist with the Fort Worth Symphony perhaps 4 years ago and his playing was not very good but he is not someone I dislike.


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## Ludovyk

Mayerl said:


> Ludovyk, I strongly suspect that you have absolutely no idea how comically patronising are your remarks on Daniel Barenboim. "He could have been a good pianist" you say; instead of what, a brilliant one. "A mediocre conductor"; I really think you should take a long hard look at others out there before passing judgement. Merely "good" pianists and "mediocre" conductors would hardly have survived a 40 year plus career as Barenboim has. I have to ask myself how you set the standard.
> If, by any remote chance, your own musical credentials are at least the equivalent of those of Mr Barenboim, I shall retract the tone of the above comments!!


No, my musical credentials are not the equivalent of Barenboim, I'm just a concert goer; but the title of this thread is Musicians YOU don't like, and I have just expressed my opinion about this musician. I don't try to convince anybody about any Universal Truth.

How I do set my standard? I have been going to concerts for more than 30 years, and believe me: I know what I like and what I don't like. _"I really think you should take a long hard look at others out there before passing judgement"_. Thanks four your advice. Let's see: Abbado, Jansons, Haitink, Temirkanov, Harnoncourt, Chailly, Boulez, Davis, Barshai, Thielemann, just to speak about people that are still active… all of them brilliant conductors and true musicians, capable of leaving their personal stamp on whatever they do...

_"Merely "good" pianists and "mediocre" conductors would hardly have survived a 40 year plus career as Barenboim has."_ Quanto mi piaci mai, semplicità... Yes, mediocre conductors can survive, as well as excellent conductors have been ignored thoughout their lives and bound to conduct second rate orchestras.

Despite my opinion about him, I have attended Barenboim's concerts many times, always with the hope of discovering the reason of his success, and which contribution such a mediocre conductor could bring to orchestras named Chicago, Vienna or Berlin…Quoting *oisfetz*, he knows how to sell himself.


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## Chi_townPhilly

I feel like I can contribute something concerning this tangent, since I've subscribed to/heard live concerts at Orchestra Hall under Barenboim's baton. I (for one) did not find him to be "mediocre." I readily understand, though, that (to borrow a turn of phrase from an Albion-Islander) he's "not everybody's cup o' Earl Grey."

I *do* have some objections to Barenboim, but (he said, stepping dangerously close to our invisible barrier between Music and Politics) they are _not_ musical ones.

Remember that the Chicago Symphony Orchestra members themselves held a vote, with the finalists being Barenboim and Abbado, and _they_ chose Barenboim. That, I think, has to count for something.

To relate this back to the original topic, I think that one way for a conductor to turn into a "musician [people] _don't_ like" is for he or she to be "force-fed" to Orchestra members without their consultation. This was Chicago's error in the Martinon tenure, Philadelphia's mistake in the (now concluding) Eschenbach era, and it may yet be Baltimore's reversal in the Alsop term.


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## confuoco

My choice is definite:

*Lang Lang*

I don't like him for his flashy showmanship and dummy sensitivity. I think he is not sincere.

I like his teacher, Daniel Barenboim much, much, much more (as pianist). I'm suprised by your criticism. From my point of view he is noble pianist. What about his Beethoven Piano Sonatas? But as conductor he isn't exceptional in nothing, I think.


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## confuoco

oisfetz said:


> Martha. Can't stand her. She always run.Maybe she has diarrhaoea every time she seats
> at the piano,and must end the soon as posible to go to the bath.


 

I think this is just her typical female temperament.


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## tutto

Kezza said:


> I really don't like Andre Rieu
> That guy is a pure showman....


WALTZING MATILDA IS NUMBER ONE AGAIN IN AUSTRALIA!???


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## trojan-rabbit

tutto said:


> WALTZING MATILDA IS NUMBER ONE AGAIN IN AUSTRALIA!???


That made me chuckle


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## Kezza

tutto said:


> WALTZING MATILDA IS NUMBER ONE AGAIN IN AUSTRALIA!???


I don't get it.... lol?

Anyways I heard Yo-yo Ma play Shostakovich Cello No.1 concerto today on the radio and it sounded pretty pathetic tbh. I think he is just too gentle and elegant which is not how you play shosta from what I gather. The recording I have which is played by Han-Na Chang with LSO is much better. That Girl is crazy. Totally thrashes her Cello and it sounds SO good. Just like shosta should sound like. From what i've heard of yo-yo so far I haven'e been like OMFG he is awesome. Yes he is good. But not Jaw Droppingly good like Perlman on the violin. Love that guy


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## Mark Harwood

Ludovyk feels that Daniel Barenboim's success is based on self-promotion.
I have no view on that, as Mr. B. isn't involved in the music that I enjoy. 
The comment does, however remind me of a certain American jazz trombonist whose name is familiar to many British jazz fans such as myself. He runs a record label, guests with many bands, and has a cool image. I went to hear him play with a band in Yorkshire, England, some time in the 1990s. He was so bad that I wondered whether I was just listening badly and missing the point. Over the years I have heard him on CD, and I have raised the issue with other jazz enthusiasts; they all agree that he is useless, but he's a good self-promoter. On the other hand, his services to jazz are immense. It's just that he shouldn't play.


----------



## Artemis

I think the suggestion that Daniel Barenboim's good reputation is undeserved and based on self-promotion is nonsense. As noted by others, one can't get to the top of any profession merely by "self-promotion", whatever that is supposed to mean. He is very highly regarded both by fellow professionals and the music buying public generally, and this has been the case for many years. I recently heard him being interviewed on a classical music radio programme, and I must say that I didn't find his personality all that endearing but this doesn't detract from my high estimation of his musical skills and achievements.


----------



## Yagan Kiely

I was going to nominate Andre Rieu, but then I realised that meant classifying him as a performer of sorts.


----------



## shsherm

Today I spoke with a retired woodwinds principal who played with the Chicago Symphony and I asked him his opinion of Daniel Barenboim. He told me he thought Barenboim was one of the greatest conductors and musicians he had ever worked with.


----------



## Havergal

*Barenboim*

Mr. Barenboim has always worshipped Furtwangler. When he conducts, he says to himself " I want to conduct this as Furtwangler would." This had gone on for years but I believe he now conducts as himself! Unfortunately, the results are not good. Case in point: his recording of Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. As he explains in the liner notes, Tchaikovsky had no idea what he was composing when he decided to have a little pause right before the coda in the last movement. So what does Barenboim do? He eliminates it. Possibly the worst recorded performance ever of a Tchaikovsky Symphony. Also Barenboim "inherited" a great orchestra when he took over the Chicago Symphony. Out of the top 5 when he left it.


----------



## kiwipolish

I was about to write that I don't like Maximianno Cobra... but can he be called a _musician_?


----------



## World Violist

I was quite shocked when I noticed his state of unmentionedness. I suppose for the same reason you question his belonging on this thread...

I think he regards music more as a thing to be played with, experimented with, seeing how far it can be taken. He has just taken it too far, to the point where it is, indeed, no longer musical. He used to be a musician, however... young, innocent, no idea of what he was to become.

But then, the state of being a "musician" is very subjective. You can't really draw a line of music vs. non-music. That would be trying to define music in words...


----------



## Guest

Artemis said:


> I think the suggestion that Daniel Barenboim's good reputation is undeserved and based on self-promotion is nonsense. As noted by others, one can't get to the top of any profession merely by "self-promotion", whatever that is supposed to mean. He is very highly regarded both by fellow professionals and the music buying public generally, and this has been the case for many years. I recently heard him being interviewed on a classical music radio programme, and I must say that I didn't find his personality all that endearing but this doesn't detract from my high estimation of his musical skills and achievements.


I couldn't agree with you more, you are so right, I have many of his recordings and I wonder if his critics are perhaps thinking of his break up with Jacqueline du Pre and casting judgment on that, I also wonder if the OP meant musically or personally dislike?


----------



## Air

oisfetz said:


> Martha. Can't stand her. She always run.Maybe she has diarrhaoea every time she seats
> at the piano,and must end the soon as posible to go to the bath.


I can't stand Martha haters. She's one of my biggest heroes.


----------



## Air

I can't stand anne-sophie mutter, sorry but it's just my opinion. her vibrato! 

For pianists, I just never understood what's the fuss about Alfred brendel.


----------



## Mayerl

The fuss about Alfred Brendel is simply because, like many other pianists of his generation, he is a time-served, dedicated musician who has taken many, many years to learn his craft, and learn it well. 
How many of the "Wunderkinder" of recent times, the competition winners, the finger technicians, will still be practicing their art in 50 years time.


----------



## Elaryad

Kezza said:


> I don't get it.... lol?
> 
> Anyways I heard Yo-yo Ma play Shostakovich Cello No.1 concerto today on the radio and it sounded pretty pathetic tbh. I think he is just too gentle and elegant which is not how you play shosta from what I gather. The recording I have which is played by Han-Na Chang with LSO is much better. That Girl is crazy. Totally thrashes her Cello and it sounds SO good. Just like shosta should sound like. From what i've heard of yo-yo so far I haven'e been like OMFG he is awesome. Yes he is good. But not Jaw Droppingly good like Perlman on the violin. Love that guy


Hello Kezza. I was wondering... "I'm going to participate in this thread just to say that I didn't like to see Han-Na Chang performing the Shostakovich's 1st cello concerto".
But first, I agree with you, and I will go further and say that probably Yo Yo Ma will never understand Shostakovich. He is very sweet, elegant, gentle, not "in tune" with the russian soul. And otherwise Han-Na chang tries to catch that "soul", that "force", by... forcing it. And forcing it makes it ridiculous.
Now, I'm not in the position to say that I hate this or that musician. I'm far from it. I just didn't like Mrs. Chang performing this cello concerto. And I really think that Rostropovich's performance was not surpassed yet. This is only my opinion.

I'm sorry for my english.


----------



## jhar26

airad2 said:


> I can't stand anne-sophie mutter, sorry but it's just my opinion. her vibrato!


I like her very much. She was the first violinist I got to know when I first got into classical music in the mid-80's. When I started to check out other violinists after that I couldn't believe how much more beautiful and 'big' Mutter's sound was compared to others. Although I have changed my opinion about those other violinists since then - on first hearing they all sounded second rate to me compared to her.


----------



## Elaryad

jhar26 said:


> I like her very much. She was the first violinist I got to know when I first got into classical music in the mid-80's. When I started to check out other violinists after that I couldn't believe how much more beautiful and 'big' Mutter's sound was compared to others. Although I have changed my opinion about those other violinists since then - on first hearing they all sounded second rate to me compared to her.


It's similar to my "problem" with Rostropovich. I started to listen to classical music not a very long time ago and when I listen to other cellists I enjoy their performance but it's never the same to me.


----------



## Guest

airad2 said:


> I can't stand anne-sophie mutter, sorry but it's just my opinion. her vibrato!


Her vibrato is one of the things that makes her individual sound and some find it a bit much, I have always admired her playing, by contrast listen to the Beethoven sonatas with Menuhin and Kempff, that is a sound of perfection, very slight vibrato, just right IMO
especially the "Kreutzer and the "Spring"


----------



## confuoco

I hate recordings of german clarinetist Karl Leister. His tone is awful, eventless, uninspiring, especially unsuitable for Romantic works. I also hate vibrato of Richard Stoltzman and don't like Gary Dranch.


----------



## Atabey

I agree on Barenboim of today.What a shame.Before trying to be Furtwangler,he was a very good pianist.His Brahms concerti with Barbirolli and Beethoven concerti with Klemperer are premiere class.His Mozart concerti with English Chamber Orchestra and his solo Mozart was also quite good.In my opinion he never became a conductor that is beyond mediocre but unfortunately his pianism also fell to that level as his later Beethoven concerti cycle with Berliner Philharmoniker shown.


----------



## Atabey

I do not like Yo-Yo Ma and Andrea Bocelli but have sympathy for the latter.
Still when i compare him with another excusable voice artist;Thomas Quasthoff,i see a huge difference artistically.
I find Anne-Sophie Mutter's attacks weak.
I dislike Herbert von Karajan because he has a fetish to make strings dominate everything.If timpani is hardly audible in Beethoven,there is a problem.


----------



## Atabey

Mayerl said:


> Ludovyk, I strongly suspect that you have absolutely no idea how comically patronising are your remarks on Daniel Barenboim. "He could have been a good pianist" you say; instead of what, a brilliant one. "A mediocre conductor"; I really think you should take a long hard look at others out there before passing judgement. Merely "good" pianists and "mediocre" conductors would hardly have survived a 40 year plus career as Barenboim has. I have to ask myself how you set the standard.
> If, by any remote chance, your own musical credentials are at least the equivalent of those of Mr Barenboim, I shall retract the tone of the above comments!!


Oh,the classical "Do it better,if you know so much" argument.My dear, do you think David Hurwitz play the piano better than Richter,play the violin better than Oistrakh,play the cello better than Slava or conduct better than Furtwangler?But he gets the right to criticise, right?Continue to shout,they might fire him because you argued that ones musical credentials should be higher than the ones he criticises.

According to your argument,i should not object when one say that my piano teacher is a world-class pianist because my musical credentials are not higher.You are so laughable.If you want to learn about mediocre musicians that survived through even higher spans than Barenboim,read this thread once again and search names of Kurt Masur,Stephen Kovacevich etc. in Wikipedia.

If,by any remote chance, you get Hurwitz and Andrew Clements fired with this argument,you sue our asses (Ludovyk's and mine;since i absolutely agree) and get us in jail for criticising Barenboim despite having lesser musical credentials,i shall retract the tone of the above comments!!!


----------



## Ludovyk

Havergal said:


> his recording of Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. As he explains in the liner notes, Tchaikovsky had no idea what he was composing when he decided to have a little pause right before the coda in the last movement. So what does Barenboim do? He eliminates it. Possibly the worst recorded performance ever of a Tchaikovsky Symphony.


This is not the only time when Mr Barenboim seems to know how things should go better than the composer himself. On occasion of a performance of Mahler's 5th symphony in Buenos Aires, he was interviewed on tv, and there he confessed that he had made an own personal version of the symphony, which integrates elements of the original version of the work (which Mahler premiered in Cologne) and others from the revised score by the composer himself. The reason: Mahler did not feel satisfied with the original performance; there were technical limitations for the instrumentalists in 1904, who did not have the same technical level as today, therefore he revised his score so as to make it more accessible to them. Mr Barenboim has decided to make a mix: he has kept the revised version, except for the changes in the orchestration, wherever he esteems that they were due to technical limitations. Amazing that despite so many Mahlerian conductors before, we have had to wait for Mr Barenboim to have the best possible version of Mahler's 5th.

You can follow the interview, if you understand Spanish, here:






Where, among other pearls, he drops the following:

_The content of music cannot be explained through words; the fact that music cannot be explained in words does not mean that music has not any content… but that this content is expressed just in sounds.

I didn't conduct Mahler in my youth because of the psychoanalysis, and all the extra musical elements around the figure of Mahler; once I decided to put aside all these extra musical connotations, only then was I able to conduct Mahler. _However, he points out, apparently with no sense of contradiction, that Mahler's encounter with Freud is still not very well known, and he has a friend in Italy who is writing a book on the subject.. So, is the context of the composer important or not?

_Mahler was the first composer who wrote dynamic indications on the score "horizontally", not "vertically". _These words remind me of Celibidache shamefully.

Anyway, it is good not to forget that we are stepping on the land of subjectivity, and sometimes it makes no sense at all to argue about tastes. For all the fans of Mr Barenboim: enjoy his conducting the New Year's Concert, and let's have everybody's opinions of this event.


----------



## Atabey

First step is well-taken.The programme he has chosen is beautiful but better programme means if he fails he fails bigger.


----------



## luuvanan

I used hear music her.but I can not think interest .i replacement good players


----------



## SWILLS

World Violist said:


> I can agree with you, Sam, up to a degree, but if you've seen him perform Dvorak's concerto (and I mean _seen_ him), I think you'll find that he's almost as much as he's cracked up to be.
> 
> Admittedly, he really doesn't show nearly as much depth as the greats: du Pre, Slava, Casals...
> 
> I can_not_ stand Joshua Bell. I don't care what all you others have to say about him, I will not be so forgiving for him... and Andre Rieu as well.
> 
> Why is it that nobody from today can stand up to the phenomena of yesterday???


But at least Andre Rieu has brought such music to those that would not otherwise bother to listen to it!
There is far too much stuffiness with some where 'classical' is concerned.

My wife would never have listened to Strauss and the likes beofre hearing Andre, now she's hooked, so that can't be a bad thing.

Having been with her to a recent sell out concert of 10,000 I have to admit he does have somehthing, plus his open air concerts in Maastricht over 3 days recently had over 40,000 getting tickets


----------



## karenpat

I don't like classical crossover artists who could be or have actually been classical/opera singers, but choose it because of the fame, money or because it's just the easy way. Andrea Bocelli even admitted he sacrificed being true to the art for the pop market because he was just plain lazy. When there are classical crossover singers out there who naturally have classical crossover voices - not strictly pop and not strictly classical, that's fine, but I HATE to see people selling themselves short because Simon Cowell wants to make money off them. That's why I don't like Il Divo.
I also don't like people who have no classical training and belt out opera chestnuts with a heavy vibrato, and call it classical because it's "in". :angry: And that's why I don't like Russell Watson... I feel sorry for him for the health problems he's had, but I can't stand his voice or music.
In closing, I don't like female so-called classical artists that are marketed as sex symbols, like Bond and Vanessa Mae.:angry:


----------



## dumbass2311

Trust me, I *hate* a lot of musicians, but they're not classical.


----------



## Rachovsky

karenpat said:


> I don't like classical crossover artists who could be or have actually been classical/opera singers, but choose it because of the fame, money or because it's just the easy way. Andrea Bocelli even admitted he sacrificed being true to the art for the pop market because he was just plain lazy. When there are classical crossover singers out there who naturally have classical crossover voices - not strictly pop and not strictly classical, that's fine, but I HATE to see people selling themselves short because Simon Cowell wants to make money off them. That's why I don't like Il Divo.
> I also don't like people who have no classical training and belt out opera chestnuts with a heavy vibrato, and call it classical because it's "in". :angry: And that's why I don't like Russell Watson... I feel sorry for him for the health problems he's had, but I can't stand his voice or music.
> In closing, I don't like female so-called classical artists that are marketed as sex symbols, like Bond and Vanessa Mae.:angry:


I disagree, I love Bond. 

And oooh, look at Vanessa Mae play that Cotton Eyed Joe.





Yee-Haw.


----------



## Guest

karenpat said:


> I don't like classical crossover artists who could be or have actually been classical/opera singers, QUOTE]
> 
> I agree, it just does not work, Dame Keri tried to sing pop etc, a different type of singing is required, stick to what you are good at


----------



## jhar26

Andante said:


> karenpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like classical crossover artists who could be or have actually been classical/opera singers, QUOTE]
> 
> I agree, it just does not work, Dame Keri tried to sing pop etc, a different type of singing is required, stick to what you are good at
> 
> 
> 
> Some of Kiri's crossover recordings are pretty good in my opinion, while others are indeed very mediocre. But her Gershwin album for example is good and so is that semi-operatic recording of _West Side Story_ and a few tracks here and there from her other crossover recordings. But it can be argued that some of those tunes from musicals can be sung with an operatic voice. Sometimes they were even sung by semi-operatic voices on Broadway or in movie musicals. I don't object to her including a few of these tunes in her concerts - it's not that much different from Pavarotti singing _O Solo Mio_ really. I think that the results are usualy the worst when the setting is all wrong like Kiri accompanied by Andre Previn's jazz trio or Renée Fleming actually trying to sound like a jazz singer as she often tries to do when singing this sort of material.
> 
> So, just speaking for myself I think that classical singers singing pop can be a disaster, but it can also be fun depending on the song in question and if it's a song that can stand the classical voice treatment. All in my modest opinion of course.
Click to expand...


----------



## jhar26

PS: I'd just like to add that I DO find people like Bocelli, Church or Jenkins annoying. These artists have never sung in an opera house in their lifes, yet the average guy in the street thinks that they are the real thing. I find them singing operatic arias annoying because they would probably never be able to do it in an opera house without amplification, and I find them singing crossover material annoying too because they haven't payed their dues in legitimate opera that would arguably give them the right to be on a "opera singer having a bit of fun with popular music" trip. In other words - they are fakes.


----------



## ecg_fa

I dislike most 'crossover' projects-- though a few like Anne Sophie Von Otter's one w.
Elvis Costello and Frederica Von Stade's with Dave & Chris Brubeck I do enjoy-- once in awhile. I too like some and dislike some of Kiri's 'crossover' ones. 

As for classical artists I don't like-- no one I dislike ALL the time I can think of.
A few less enthusiastic for generally: Raphael Kubelik and Erich Leinsdorff come to mind. 
And while I like many light sweet sopranos (& mezzos, even tenors for that matter), I also
think many who get recorded w. much publicity and end up 'flavor of the month' are not
often so super great-- especially heard live, or else push their voices too far into areas 
maybe they shouldn't, or when they're too young.

Ed


----------



## Harold Adrian

I don't know..I always laugh when i see Kitaro perform..


----------



## Guest

I have yet to hear a good result of a Classical trained Singer performing a pop, show or jazz number, the classical training removes the individual idiosyncrasies that are essential for this type of singing, and as far as jazz is concerned they just can’t swing. Give me Ella any day. Man


----------



## jhar26

Well, I agree that classical singers can't sing jazz - I haven't yet heard any of them do it convingly anyway. But there's no need for them to sing those songs as jazz singers do them. Let's not forget that people like Cole Porter, George Gershwin or Irving Berlin didn't always have jazz in their minds when they wrote their songs. They wrote for the musical theatre (or sometimes movie musicals) where their songs were sometimes sung by operatic sounding voices. Their songs quickly became standard material for jazz artists and work perfectly that way. But that doesn't necessarily mean that some of those songs can't be effective in a different context as well. Take for example _Summertime_ - that's a song that can be sung by an opera singer like Kiri, by a jazz singer like Ella and even by a rock singer like Janis Joplin. Bernstein's waltz _I Feel Pretty_ is as suitable for an operatic soprano as any tune from Johann Strauss or Franz Lehar and _Old Man River_ works much better when it's sung by an operatic bass than when it's sung by a pop singer. And _You Never Walk Alone_ or _Climb Every Mountain_ too sound better when they are sung by a classical soprano in my opinion. Oviously it doesn't work for every song. Many are clearly not suitable for classical singers.


----------



## Lang

When I was young probably the most famous conductor in the UK was Sir Malcolm Sargent. He received adulation, it seemed, from everybody. At first I thought the problem was mine, and that there was some aspect to his conducting that I had not divined. To me, he seemed to lack the most basic abilities - there was always a lack of simultaneity, the orchestral playing was always rough and somewhat inaccurate. The BBC Symphony Orchestra deteriorated so much under his direction that I heard, for example, a performance of Pictures at an Exhibition in which the tuba, who plays the solo in Bydlo, was absent, and all that remained was the accompaniment. And when Aaron Copland came over to conduct Appalachian Spring, the orchestra fell apart at one point, and was only rescued because there was a general pause. To make matters worse, whenever there was a difficult work on the program, it was always taken by a guest conductor.

When Colin Davis came along his precision, accuracy and musical communication was a revelation.


----------



## Taneyev

And what do you expect from a Sargent?


----------



## Guest

jhar26 said:


> Well, I agree that classical singers can't sing jazz - I haven't yet heard any of them do it convingly anyway. But there's no need for them to sing those songs as jazz singers do them. Let's not forget that people like Cole Porter, George Gershwin or Irving Berlin didn't always have jazz in their minds when they wrote their songs. ..................................................................


*Yes, Point taken,* but why do they perform with a jazz or pop group?
I still think '_do what you do do well Boy'_ if you get my meaning


----------



## xJuanx

I really don't like Rene Jacobs as a singer. I bought an album of him singing Bach, and I absolutely hated it. Anyways I respect him as a conductor.


----------



## Sid James

While I agree that the likes of Clayderman, Yanni, Vanessa Mae and Andre Rieu are not the greatest musicians in the world, at least they offer something more permanent than the usual 15 minutes of fame latest pop group. Like Liberace before them, they at least introduce people to some of the popular classics. Whether or not such people take the next step and get into something more serious, it's up to them. But I think it's unfair to just bag these musicians, simply because they offer something less profound than your standard classical musician. I mean, not everyone can be a Stern, a Karajan or a Perlman.


----------



## SWILLS

Andre Rieu must be doing somehting right ,if, with 3 open air concerts he can get over 60,000 to attend!


----------



## livemylife

Yo-Yo Ma - mostly everything and especially his Bach suites. UGH.
Rachel Barton Pine - vibrato is too slow/wide.
Starker - anything
Christian Ferras - vibrato is too narrow/fast.
I can't think of anyone else atm. lol


----------



## JTech82

I don't like Hilary Hahn. I've read numerous reports that state that conductors have said she is what's wrong with classical music today and I can agree with that.

If conductors are included, then pretty much everything Charles Dutoit has conducted. I laughed so hard when I heard his attempts at Ravel. His tempi for "Le Tombeau de Couperin" almost made me puke. Dutoit is just very distasteful.


----------



## Taneyev

I can't stand the tortoise (Tureck) nor the cheeta (Argerich)


----------



## World Violist

livemylife said:


> Christian Ferras - vibrato is too narrow/fast.


Christian Ferras, narrow vibrato? I agree that it's fast (in that case, where's Heifetz and Menuhin on your list???), but every time I've heard him it's been with very singing, wide, passionate vibrato.

I don't know if I'll ever get to like Nathan Milstein, though. Everything I've heard from HIM is just plain old LIFELESS... Technically he was great, and interpretively he was mediocre. Average them out and he's not a great violinist anymore, especially with his flaky, thin tone... ugh.


----------



## livemylife

World Violist: The youtube videos are pretty much all I've heard of Ferras, and those seem to be fast/narrow. Isn't narrow and fast vibrato related? I can't imagine what narrow/slow sounds like...


----------



## World Violist

livemylife said:


> World Violist: The youtube videos are pretty much all I've heard of Ferras, and those seem to be fast/narrow. Isn't narrow and fast vibrato related? I can't imagine what narrow/slow sounds like...


Narrow vibrato is related to the deviation from the written pitch, and speed is how long said deviation lasts. Therefore, you can have a fast/wide vibrato (such as Perlman) or slow/narrow vibrato (like Ysaye's), as well as everything in between. Actually, the mark of a really great violinist is the ability to use all of them when the music calls for it.


----------



## trazom

Lang Lang and Valentina Lisitsa. Well, the latter is good sometimes, I guess; but I heard her performance of Islamey by Balakirev which I thought was awful...unless maybe the piece is awful no matter how good the performer is.


----------



## handlebar

Lang Lang,Yanni and Andre Rieu. And of course 99% of the pop and rock "stars" out there that play 5 chords max.

Jim


----------



## jhar26

handlebar said:


> And of course 99% of the pop and rock "stars" out there that play 5 chords max.
> 
> Jim


Sure, but if you can make a decent song with two chords there's no reason to use more.


----------



## Taneyev

trazom said:


> Lang Lang and Valentina Lisitsa. Well, the latter is good sometimes, I guess; but I heard her performance of Islamey by Balakirev which I thought was awful...unless maybe the piece is awful no matter how good the performer is.


IMO, you should find Simon Barer's recording. It's one of the most extraordinary virtuosism on piano ever made. If you don'd like it, it's that you really hate the piece.


----------



## handlebar

The key is "decent". I hear very little that doesn't seem to include foul language,bad grammar or speaking instead of singing. More like singspiel than singing. 

Ok, I just don't like today's music too much. There are exceptions but very few.

Jim


----------



## Elgarian

handlebar said:


> And of course 99% of the pop and rock "stars" out there that play 5 chords max.


You can play a lot of Buddy Holly and Bob Dylan songs with 3 chords. (They'd see 5 as a luxury, I think.) Of course you're not obliged to like 'em, though.


----------



## handlebar

Elgarian said:


> You can play a lot of Buddy Holly and Bob Dylan songs with 3 chords. (They'd see 5 as a luxury, I think.) Of course you're not obliged to like 'em, though.


But they produced good music with inspiring lyrics. What i seem to hear in today's music reflects drugs,violence,sex(LOTS of that) is so negative and depressing that a major,bright key cannot save it. But yes, you are correct: I can choose not to like it. And so I choose not to. 
Hence why my time is spent with classical.

Jim


----------



## jhar26

handlebar said:


> The key is "decent". I hear very little that doesn't seem to include foul language,bad grammar or speaking instead of singing. More like singspiel than singing.
> 
> Ok, I just don't like today's music too much. There are exceptions but very few.
> 
> Jim


Pop/rock peaked in the 60's and 70's in my opinion, and it's been going downhill ever since MTV came on the scene. But I must admit that I don't follow what's going on in the pop/rock scene anymore as I used to and there's probably some interesting stuff going on that I don't know about. I still like popular music though and if I hear something new that I like I will buy it, but I no longer go looking for it. As for rap - well, I just don't 'get it.' If rap lovers would play me one rap album that is considered a classic by those people, and one that is supposed to be terrible I wouldn't be able to tell which one is supposed to be the good one and which one is supposed to be the bad one.


----------



## jhar26

handlebar said:


> But they produced good music with inspiring lyrics. What i seem to hear in today's music reflects drugs,violence,sex(LOTS of that) is so negative and depressing that a major,bright key cannot save it.
> 
> Jim


I agree with that. Too much negativity, too much glamourizing of violence and way too much sexism. Sex has always been a part of rock'n'roll, but it used to be more playful. As it is now, much of popular music has become an insult to women.


----------



## handlebar

jhar26 said:


> I agree with that. Too much negativity, too much glamourizing of violence and way too much sexism. Sex has always been a part of rock'n'roll, but it used to be more playful. As it is now, much of popular music has become an insult to women.


Agreed!!!! Very much so. We have enough negativity in this world and don't need more in our music.

Jim


----------



## Elgarian

handlebar said:


> But yes, you are correct: I can choose not to like it. And so I choose not to.


Dash it all, Jim. I didn't _mean_ it!


----------



## andruini

i really hate Vanessa Mae..
and i REALLY hate all those stupid DJs who keep making remixes of classical songs.. especially every single ******* who ever remixed Barber's Adagio.. especially that Tiesto character..


----------



## handlebar

Elgarian said:


> Dash it all, Jim. I didn't _mean_ it!


LOL 

Jim


----------



## Elgarian

handlebar said:


> LOL


You can laugh now. Just wait till you get that complete set of Bob Dylan albums I've ordered for your birthday ....


----------



## handlebar

Elgarian said:


> You can laugh now. Just wait till you get that complete set of Bob Dylan albums I've ordered for your birthday ....


Ouch. Don't know if i can handle someone telling me to get stoned and singing(not really,more speaking) in a weak and high pitched voice like his. But ,i will give them a try.

Jim


----------



## Aramis

Edvin Marton.





 - just check this out.

Also his "modern" image (I mean clothing and photos style) makes me vomit.


----------



## JoeGreen

jhar26 said:


> I agree with that. Too much negativity, too much glamourizing of violence and way too much sexism. Sex has always been a part of rock'n'roll, but it used to be more playful. As it is now, much of popular music has become an insult to women.


Just take Marvin Gaye's _Let's Get It on_

_I've been really tryin', baby
Tryin' to hold back this feelin' for so long
And if you feel like I feel, baby
Then come on, oh, come on
Whoo, let's get it on
Ah, babe, let's get it on
Let's love, baby
Let's get it on, sugar
Let's get it on
Whoo-ooh-ooh_

see now that's poetry , when compared to say...

(insert any new rap/hip hop song that has come out in the last 2 years here)

*back on topic*

Kenny G. I know he's not classical. But still if there is only one musician that irks me so much it's him.


----------



## Elgarian

handlebar said:


> singing(not really,more speaking) in a weak and high pitched voice like his.


You may be mistaken about the singing. As Bob said himself, he can sing as well as Caruso. And he can hold his breath twice as long.


----------



## Misakichi_mx

JTech82 said:


> I don't like Hilary Hahn. I've read numerous reports that state that conductors have said she is what's wrong with classical music today and I can agree with that.


 Can you elaborate as to why you don't like Hahn? other than because some conductors don't like her? I mean, I don't like her version of Bach's Chaconne, it's way too slow for me, but I really like her Sibelius for example and she made me appreciate the Schoenberg. Have you heard her play those? I think she's among the best violinists today, technically speaking, and she's expressive enough for me


----------



## nickgray

Stockhausen, Cage and other "avantgardists". I'm also not so fond of Mozart, beside the fact that he started to write and perform music at an extremely young age I don't really find anything great in his music. Yeah, in his time it was awesome, etc. but two hundred+ years later? Nah... He also usually wrote very... um... cheesy melodies which sort of sucks...


----------



## handlebar

Elgarian said:


> You may be mistaken about the singing. As Bob said himself, he can sing as well as Caruso. And he can hold his breath twice as long.


That I don't doubt as Caruso is dead and Dylan is not. Well, at least I don't THINK he is.
But who knows. Keith Richards is purported to be alive but looking at him one wouldn't know it 

Jim


----------



## Herzeleide

nickgray said:


> Nah... He also usually wrote very... um... cheesy melodies which sort of sucks...


Try listening more closely. I can recommend his Haydn Quartets.


----------



## Herzeleide

I despise any classical-pop 'cross-over' artists.

Karl Jenkins, Michael Nyman and Philip Glass are all an anathema to me.


----------



## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> You may be mistaken about the singing. As Bob said himself, he can sing as well as Caruso. And he can hold his breath twice as long.


Much as I like many a Dylan cover, I still think that Dylan is the best interpreter of Dylan. The fact that technically speking he has a terrible voice doesn't matter at all. In fact, I don't think it would be nearly as effective if it was prettier.


----------



## R-F

jhar26 said:


> Much as I like many a Dylan cover, I still think that Dylan is the best interpreter of Dylan. The fact that technically speking he has a terrible voice doesn't matter at all. In fact, I don't think it would be nearly as effective if it was prettier.


I agree with that. The songs wouldn't work with anyone else because their HIS songs. They were never meant to be sung by some soulless pop label. That, Dylan is not.


----------



## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> Much as I like many a Dylan cover, I still think that Dylan is the best interpreter of Dylan.


I completely agree. And through his interpretations of them over time, the songs become living things; they grow, like trees.



> The fact that technically speking he has a terrible voice doesn't matter at all. In fact, I don't think it would be nearly as effective if it was prettier.


Exactly. The interesting point about his famous Caruso quip is that it's funny because it's true (in its unexpected way, that is). His voice is perfect for the particular kinds of expression that he seeks for, when he sings his own material.


----------



## Herzeleide

Elgarian said:


> I completely agree.


I disagree. It's nice hearing Jimi Hendrix play 'All Along The Watchtower' - someone who can actually play their instrument and sing well!


----------



## tahnak

*Balakirev and Lisitsa*



trazom said:


> Lang Lang and Valentina Lisitsa. Well, the latter is good sometimes, I guess; but I heard her performance of Islamey by Balakirev which I thought was awful...unless maybe the piece is awful no matter how good the performer is.


Don't blame Balakirev. Islamey is Balkirev's greatest work. The orchestral version brings out superb colours.


----------



## tahnak

*Classical Pop cross over*



Herzeleide said:


> I despise any classical-pop 'cross-over' artists.
> 
> Karl Jenkins, Michael Nyman and Philip Glass are all an anathema to me.


Good music does not carry ribbon tags. All three composers have decent creations and don't run them down. Music speaks universally and if it is through the medium of an ensemble, it is accepted even by the Creator be it Glass or even John Williams or Maurice Jarre or Johann Sebastian Bach himself.


----------



## tahnak

*Musicians I don't like*

Basically I am not prejudiced or biased against any particular musician but I don't like creation that does not have spirit . Music should speak in sentences and communicate. Those musicians that experiment with electronic sounds and speak of silences and traffic sounds also as part of the composition are akin to the modern art degenerates who draw a fried egg and call it a sunset.


----------



## World Violist

jhar26 said:


> Much as I like many a Dylan cover, I still think that Dylan is the best interpreter of Dylan. The fact that technically speking he has a terrible voice doesn't matter at all. In fact, I don't think it would be nearly as effective if it was prettier.


I could never really like his "Blowin' in the Wind" though... Peter Paul & Mary are always my favorites for that one; they too have heart and soul and all that stuff, and they understand the music... And they have good voices.

The rest of Bob Dylan's recordings are definitive, indeed.


----------



## Rachovsky

How did we get on the subject of non-classical musicians? 
I love Peter, Paul, and Mary's recordings of Dylan and Denver songs. One of Dylan's songs that I could never enjoy with him singing is "To make you feel my love." I'd rather listen to Billy Joel or Adele for that one.


----------



## handlebar

Does PBS ever broadcast any other classical events OTHER than Andre Rieu?? I have had enough of this guy and his circus. Call me bitter but he used to be a first chair violinist with one of the world's major orchestras. Now he sells out and performs these crossover concerts. Granted, he is making money hand over fist. But what happened to the art of music? 

Ok. My rant is over. It was started with a bumper sticker I saw today that said "I'd rather be listening to Andre Rieu". Yuk.

Jim


----------



## JoeGreen

handlebar said:


> Does PBS ever broadcast any other classical events OTHER than Andre Rieu?? I have had enough of this guy and his circus. Call me bitter but he used to be a first chair violinist with one of the world's major orchestras. Now he sells out and performs these crossover concerts. Granted, he is making money hand over fist. But what happened to the art of music?
> 
> Ok. My rant is over. It was started with a bumper sticker I saw today that said "I'd rather be listening to Andre Rieu". Yuk.
> 
> Jim


They do actually, sometimes they show live performances from the MET, but since Andre Rieu is one of their big ticket items of course he gets more coverage.


----------



## handlebar

JoeGreen said:


> They do actually, sometimes they show live performances from the MET, but since Andre Rieu is one of their big ticket items of course he gets more coverage.


And what a shame with a worldwide treasury of concerts and operas out there.

Jim


----------



## jhar26

World Violist said:


> I could never really like his "Blowin' in the Wind" though... Peter Paul & Mary are always my favorites for that one; they too have heart and soul and all that stuff, and they understand the music... And they have good voices.
> 
> The rest of Bob Dylan's recordings are definitive, indeed.


If I have to pick just one act, I'd say that the Byrds were best at doing Dylan covers. Joan Baez did some good ones also. There are many good Dylan covers actually, and considering his unconventional voice and that he usually goes for an unpolished live in the studio type of sound those covers usually sound very different from Dylan's own recordings. But for me those covers can never replace Dylan's own. They just show his work in a different and often interesting light.


----------



## handlebar

Even though he is not classical, I dislike the whole Yanni culture. I notice that his popularity has waned a little as I rarely see him advertised. His refusal to ever play music from the great composers and only play his own seems a bit selfish. But then again I guess i don't fault him for it as he has made many millions on it. Still, Liszt,Chopin and the greats of their day played other peoples music as well as their own.

Jim


----------



## Mark Harwood

jhar26 said:


> If I have to pick just one act, I'd say that the Byrds were best at doing Dylan covers. Joan Baez did some good ones also. There are many good Dylan covers actually, and considering his unconventional voice and that he usually goes for an unpolished live in the studio type of sound those covers usually sound very different from Dylan's own recordings. But for me those covers can never replace Dylan's own. They just show his work in a different and often interesting light.


There's one Dylan cover that does it for me. It's "The Ballad of Hollis Brown", by the Scottish rock band Nazareth. Man, that's heavy.


----------



## jimmy0456

Harvey said:


> Any musicans you don't like?
> Share your thoughts!
> 
> I'll start with...Richard Clayderman.
> 
> And now I have to back it up...Okay, I've read somewhere that he brought piano playing to the masses, and some people learned to play the piano by listening to Clayderman. Well that's all good...until you start looking for some music. I find his style too monotonous, repetitive, boring, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................Hey. Nothing wrong with playing Gounod in sixths, changing the rhythm, and adding some percussion, _but if you play the first four measures over and over and over again, it's gonna annoy people._


Hey Friend ,

I listen many songs of many musicians , I have also bored with Richard Clayderman same as You. His songs have no rhythm,He worked with ur repeated theme, no change in his rhythm. U r right , if any one listen his song again and again,he will be gonna annoy people.

jimmy white songwriter


----------



## livemylife

andruini said:


> i really hate Vanessa Mae..
> and i REALLY hate all those stupid DJs who keep making remixes of classical songs.. especially every single ******* who ever remixed Barber's Adagio.. especially that Tiesto character..


YES I hate Vanessa Mae! Seriously, she is NOT THAT GREAT. Except rest of the world seems to think so... 
Also, the girl violinist on the current season of Britain's Got Talent? Exactly like Vanessa Mae.


----------



## World Violist

livemylife said:


> YES I hate Vanessa Mae! Seriously, she is NOT THAT GREAT. Except rest of the world seems to think so...
> Also, the girl violinist on the current season of Britain's Got Talent? Exactly like Vanessa Mae.


Vanessa Mae... ugh... that woman is so ridiculous...

One musician I could never quite "get" was Lorin Maazel. All of his recordings I've ever heard either bore me stiff or disgust me to the point where I turn it off after about a minute. And I literally almost fell asleep during the only NYPO concert I've ever been to recently; they played Berlioz's Roman Carnival Overture, Schumann's fourth, and Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures. The Pictures were alright, and some of the Berlioz was okay, but the Schumann I felt to be one of the most boring things I'd ever heard. Sure, the orchestra played spot-on, but once you get to that level I feel as though you need to have something more than note-perfection and perfect blend with the rest of the orchestra (which they also had). The conductor needs to have a good, fresh interpretation, which apparently he just did not have here.


----------



## jhar26

livemylife said:


> YES I hate Vanessa Mae! Seriously, she is NOT THAT GREAT. Except rest of the world seems to think so...


Well, Vanessa-Mae is probably the only 'classical musician' they know because she once had a hit single playing a Bach tune with a disco beat.


----------



## Aramis

> Well, Vanessa-Mae is probably the only 'classical musician' they know because she once had a hit single playing a Bach tune with a disco beat.


I remember when my school music teacher was trying to interest class by showing us this record instead of the real thing few years ago. This is what I call musical education in public schools. Rotfl.


----------



## World Violist

Aramis said:


> I remember when my school music teacher was trying to interest class by showing us this record instead of the real thing few years ago. This is what I call musical education in public schools. Rotfl.


Oh, of course... only the very best for their kids...

Honestly, if teachers want kids to shut up and pay attention to classical music, they should play some good Mahler or something. I mean, my God! what can they be thinking?


----------



## Aramis

World Violist said:


> Oh, of course... only the very best for their kids...
> 
> Honestly, if teachers want kids to shut up and pay attention to classical music, they should play some good Mahler or something. I mean, my God! what can they be thinking?


At the first place, what Mahler has to do with Bach? XXth century isn't even considered in school's program. And yes, maybe teachers should show kids something diffrent than 20 seconds of famous piece which they have heard milion times before. Listening to complete work would be less boring than listening to teacher who is trying to talk about classical music in cool and youthful way, probably beliving that nobody is interested. Including himself; my teacher, for example, had no idea about classical music and listened to Metallica. I don't dig your irony anyway.


----------



## Drew93

As a classical saxophonist who plays Jazz (trad. not modern), I agree!


----------



## Drew93

godzillaviolist said:


> Atleast he's not playing Mahler in tritones
> 
> I cannot say she is a bad player, but I think Du Pre was an overrated 'cellist. Yes, she _did_ popularise the Elgar 'cello concerto, and I'm glad she did. Now there is practically a 'cellist on every street corner playing the Elgar  . But her tone seems rather harsh to my ears. As though she trying to set the 'cello on fire through friction burns
> Also, jazz saxophonists who play classical. They never have the right tone.
> godzilla


I realise I should probably have included this, otherwise my previous post doesn't really make sense


----------



## Library Bob

I'm yet another one here who's not a member of the Lang Lang fan club. Most redundant name since Sirhan Sirhan and boring besides.

Nor am I a major fan of Riccardo Muti, especially his years in Philadelphia. So what if he did record the first digital Beethoven Symphony Cycle with the Philadelphians? The set is note-perfect but ice cold. At around the time he left Philadelphia, one of the local newspapers issued a report, which has never been denied, in which the reporter said that he had heard Muti's wife remarking, "Riccardo hate America. Riccardo hate Philadelphia." Judging by the Beethoven cycle alone, that's easy to believe.


----------



## Drew93

A particular dislike of mine is Vanessa Mae, whoever thought a fusion of Classical and Hip-Hop played on an electric violin was a good idea needs their ears testing


----------



## Guest

Drew93 said:


> A particular dislike of mine is Vanessa Mae, whoever thought a fusion of Classical and Hip-Hop played on an electric violin was a good idea needs their ears testing


I will add, An electric violin is a sin against music! all performers on this contraption should have it forced right up their left nostril, slowly.


----------



## Mirror Image

Drew93 said:


> As a classical saxophonist who plays Jazz (trad. not modern), I agree!


You play jazz too?!? Well that's great, Drew93. I'd be interested in hearing some of your improvisations sometime.


----------



## ThePennyDrops

Like Godzilla, I think Du Pre was somewhat over-rated.
Tortelier's recording of the Elgar concerto is far, far superior to hers.
I'm not a great fan of Katherine Jenkins either, or Russell Watson. Ian Bostridge could beat him into a pulp.

And to go off-track a little, what's with all the Dylan love? Great poet maybe, but musician? No way.


----------



## bassClef

Another vote for that Jenkins woman ... just awful. I haven't seen/heard much Vanessa Mae but what I did was quite enough.


----------



## jhar26

ThePennyDrops said:


> And to go off-track a little, what's with all the Dylan love? Great poet maybe, but musician? No way.


Doesn't matter. Awful voice, (at best) basic musicianship, but who cares? His work is a lot more powerful than that of a zillion other far better musicians.

Vanessa-Mae and the Jenkins girl don't really qualify as 'real' classical musicians in my opinion.


----------



## ThePennyDrops

jhar26 said:


> Doesn't matter. Awful voice, (at best) basic musicianship, but who cares? His work is a lot more powerful than that of a zillion other far better musicians.


It matters if you can't bear to listen to his music because his voice is comparable to hearing nails on a blackboard.


----------



## jhar26

ThePennyDrops said:


> It matters if you can't bear to listen to his music because his voice is comparable to hearing nails on a blackboard.


It doesn't matter if you don't mind that his voice is comparable to hearing nails on a blackboard, and I don't.


----------



## kg4fxg

*Liberace*

How about Liberace?

Isn't he a wonderful piano player and interpreter of classical music? Just kidding but I could not resist.


----------



## kg4fxg

*Electric Ladies*

Some one mentioned not liking electric violin. Yeah, sort of grates on me. But they look sooo good!


----------



## Aramis

kg4fxg said:


> But they look sooo good!


Who? The ladies? They look like ****ty pop singers.


----------



## kg4fxg

*Yes.*

The Electric Ladies have a video on their website that show the old way where they really play wonderful violin, nice fingering and all. Then they show how they moved to electric violins.

http://www.electricladies.lt/en/?pageid=4

OK, gimme a break. Some guys like to look at Fine Art on the web, I sometimes digress at 2AM to less traditional repertoire. Similar groups are called La Scala and their are others.


----------



## Sid James

Andante said:


> I will add, An electric violin is a sin against music! all performers on this contraption should have it forced right up their left nostril, slowly.


I don't know about electric, but there is a place for amplified instruments in the contemporary classical repertoire. Australian composer Barry Conyngham has used amplified instruments alot. I've heard his _Water...Footsteps...Time_ which is pretty good, especially if you like Takemitsu's music. & he also composed a concerto for amplified violin. So I suppose it's the context & way in which an instrument is used that matters. Not everything has to be commercial like what Vanessa Mae does...


----------



## BuddhaBandit

ThePennyDrops said:


> It matters if you can't bear to listen to his music because his voice is comparable to hearing nails on a blackboard.


But that's not the point- his voice fits the pointed, abrasive nature of the songs. And he wrote some killer melodies.

And, Aramis, what's wrong with ****ty pop singers?


----------



## Drew93

Mirror Image said:


> You play jazz too?!? Well that's great, Drew93. I'd be interested in hearing some of your improvisations sometime.


In truth, Mirror Image, I'm not overly confident when it comes to improvisation (I've only been playing for about two and a half years) but I'm sure I have a few recordings of myself somewhere. What instrument do you play?

Quote: Andante
I will add, An electric violin is a sin against music! all performers on this contraption should have it forced right up their left nostril, slowly.

Any preference for the left nostril or will the right do as well? Either way I agree! I like the way you used 'performers' and not 'musicians'


----------



## Guest

Drew93 said:


> Quote: Andante
> I will add, An electric violin is a sin against music! all performers on this contraption should have it forced right up their left nostril, slowly.
> 
> Any preference for the left nostril or will the right do as well? Either way I agree! I like the way you used 'performers' and not 'musicians'


The right one is reserved for the Bow, just in case.


----------



## Mirror Image

Drew93 said:


> In truth, Mirror Image, I'm not overly confident when it comes to improvisation (I've only been playing for about two and a half years) but I'm sure I have a few recordings of myself somewhere. What instrument do you play?
> 
> Quote: Andante
> I will add, An electric violin is a sin against music! all performers on this contraption should have it forced right up their left nostril, slowly.
> 
> Any preference for the left nostril or will the right do as well? Either way I agree! I like the way you used 'performers' and not 'musicians'


I play guitar, but the only recordings you will get of me are bootlegs.  I don't record myself too that much.


----------



## Drew93

Andante said:


> The right one is reserved for the Bow, just in case.


Ah, I see. Forcing a bow up a nostril would be quite some feat...let alone forcing up an entire violin! I'm quite interested in how it's done. Any tips?

Quote: Mirror Image
I play guitar, but the only recordings you will get of me are bootlegs. I don't record myself too that much.

Same here, though I've started recently to see how I sound. Are you more of an Eddie Lang fan or a Django fan? Or perhaps Charlie Christian?


----------



## Guest

Drew93 said:


> Ah, I see. Forcing a bow up a nostril would be quite some feat...let alone forcing up an entire violin! I'm quite interested in how it's done. Any tips?
> 
> ?


Only at the end of the Bow


----------



## Drew93

Andante said:


> Only at the end of the Bow


Ha, good call!


----------



## World Violist

Oh, this thread is so bad... puts a bad scent in my nose, or whatever you people say.


----------



## PicaQ

I don't like Bob Dylan's music. It's not the lyrics that bother me, his lyrics are genius, but I feel that he should have written them as poetry. I just don't like the melodies he writes.

The musician I dislike the most is myself. it doesn't matter that I'm almost always in tune, my tone is horrid whether I sing, play the violin, and even when I play the piano.


----------



## Mirror Image

Drew93 said:


> I've started recently to see how I sound. Are you more of an Eddie Lang fan or a Django fan? Or perhaps Charlie Christian?


No, oh no, I prefer more modern jazz guitarists like Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, and Ben Monder. Those are the main jazz guitarists I'm into. I actually have had quite a few conversations with Ben Monder through email. He's a very nice guy. He signed some CDs for me and sent them to me.

My absolute dream, however, would be to meet Bill Frisell. I've idolized this man's playing for 10 years now.


----------



## Bach

I'm surprised you like Pat Metheny..


----------



## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> I'm surprised you like Pat Metheny..


I'm not a big fan of the Pat Metheny Group, but Pat Metheny has been involved with some great straight-ahead/post-bop jazz recordings. My favorite is vibraphonist Gary Burton's "Like Minds" album on Concord Records with an all-star lineup of Chick Corea on piano, Dave Holland on bass, Pat on guitar, Gary on vibes, and the great Roy Haynes on drums:










You would dig this album I think, Bach.


----------



## Bach

Sounds like good stuff, and certainly an impressive lineup. I'll seek it out!


----------



## Guest

I am surprised that* M I *does not care for Django Reinhardt he had a fantastic rhythm and could do more things with 3 fingers than most can do with the whole set and his playing with Grappelli in the Quintette de hot club de Parie in the 30s must have been something. Do any of you have CDs in the "Jazz in Paris" series? They are well worth getting. On the subject of Guitarists how about Gabriel Bianco he won the "Guitar Foundation of America 2008" he made a recital CD of Bach, Koshkin and Mertz, very nice playing


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> I am surprised that* M I *does not care for Django Reinhardt he had a fantastic rhythm and could do more things with 3 fingers than most can do with the whole set and his playing with Grappelli in the Quintette de hot club de Parie in the 30s must have been something. Do any of you have CDs in the "Jazz in Paris" series? They are well worth getting. On the subject of Guitarists how about Gabriel Bianco he won the "Guitar Foundation of America 2008" he made a recital CD of Bach, Koshkin and Mertz, very nice playing


There's no question that Django was a great player, but I prefer the mellow tone of Wes Montgomery and Jim Hall. I also enjoy the edgy atmospherics of Bill Frisell and John Abercrombie quite immensely.


----------



## Guest

Have you heard Gabriel Bianco yet?? I am sure you will like him


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Have you heard Gabriel Bianco yet?? I am sure you will like him


No, I've heard him. I'm pretty much done exploring jazz for a long time. I own way too many recordings right now. Not only that, but I actually haven't listened to any jazz since January.


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> No, I've heard him. I'm pretty much done exploring jazz for a long time. I own way too many recordings right now. Not only that, but I actually haven't listened to any jazz since January.


As far as I know, and I could be wrong, he is pure classical, no Jazz here is his biog

http://www.naxos.com/artistinfo/gabriel_bianco/90261.htm


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> As far as I know, and I could be wrong, he is pure classical, no Jazz here is his biog
> 
> http://www.naxos.com/artistinfo/gabriel_bianco/90261.htm


Oh sorry about that I thought we were still talking about jazz musicians. No, I'm not familiar with this classical guitar, then again, I'm not that interested in classical guitar anyway.


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> Oh sorry about that I thought we were still talking about jazz musicians. No, I'm not familiar with this classical guitar, then again, I'm not that interested in classical guitar anyway.


My mistake, I thought you played Classical Guitar


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> My mistake, I thought you played Classical Guitar


Oh no, I play jazz, but I hardly don't play much music anymore. In fact, I don't even compose much anymore. I'm more interested in listening to the music now.


----------



## Guest

If I had my time over again I would learn the Guitar (classical) it is such a convenient instrument and one that you can enjoy even on your own. I better stop as I have gone right off topic


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> If I had my time over again I would learn the Guitar (classical) it is such a convenient instrument and one that you can enjoy even on your own. I better stop as I have gone right off topic


I really don't enjoy the guitar as much as I used to. When I first started to play, I was interested in getting the guitar to sound like another instrument by learning saxophone licks a la Coltrane or getting the guitar to sound more trumpet-like.

I'm still a young man. I would really like to learn either saxophone, oboe, or clarinet. I don't do well with brass instruments. I don't have the lips for brass.


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> I'm still a young man. I would really like to learn either saxophone, oboe, or clarinet. I don't do well with brass instruments. I don't have the lips for brass.


Out of those three personally I would go for the Clarinet as it can be used in classical,jazz or any genre. I did a bit with one but only jazz, I was not competent enough to try Classical.
The Guitar is still more versatile than any wind or brass instrument, I know you *can *get fed up with any instrument but it is better to play one instrument to a pro standard compared to mucking about with say six or more to a not very proficient standard


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Out of those three personally I would go for the Clarinet as it can be used in classical,jazz or any genre. I did a bit with one but only jazz, I was not competent enough to try Classical.
> The Guitar is still more versatile than any wind or brass instrument, I know you *can *get fed up with any instrument but it is better to play one instrument to a pro standard compared to mucking about with say six or more to a not very proficient standard


I wouldn't dream of giving up guitar. I just don't play it as much as I used to. No, wind instruments and brass instruments are not as versatile as chordal instruments like piano and guitar, but they really do bring a lot to the table in terms of melody and giving a tune a different shape.


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> I wouldn't dream of giving up guitar. I just don't play it as much as I used to. No, wind instruments and brass instruments are not as versatile as chordal instruments like piano and guitar, but they really do bring a lot to the table in terms of melody and giving a tune a different shape.


To be quite honest it is not the ability to play chords that attracts me but the means of playing two lines of music, I find this absolutely fascinating, eg a keyboard instrument, playing a Bach fugue the left and right hand so independent, and this is available to the Guitar as well, where as the instruments that I played were really limited to one line [it is a bit tricky trying to double stop a double bass] I did hear a flute make a pretty good attempt at this but then again Galway was a fine player.


----------



## opus

i dont like john williams the classical guitarist.


----------



## danae

Andante said:


> I did hear a flute make a pretty good attempt at this but then again Galway was a fine player.


What do you mean exactly? A flute simultaneously playing 2 different notes? I'm almost certain this can't be done on the flute, except, of course, if one of the notes is sung and the other played (See for instance "Vox Balaenae" by George Crumb).


----------



## Guest

danae said:


> What do you mean exactly? A flute simultaneously playing 2 different notes? I'm almost certain this can't be done on the flute, except, of course, if one of the notes is sung and the other played (See for instance "Vox Balaenae" by George Crumb).


Of course it can't, but it can be played so that the lower register notes *seem *to be independent but it is very,very difficult as the embouchure has to change repeatedly and very quickly you need to be a virtuoso to pull it off


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## danae

Andante said:


> Of course it can't, but it can be played so that the lower register notes *seem *to be independent but it is very,very difficult as the embouchure has to change repeatedly and very quickly you need to be a virtuoso to pull it off


I'm very curious to hear what you mean. Do you have an example, or is there anything on you tube?


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> To be quite honest it is not the ability to play chords that attracts me but the means of playing two lines of music, I find this absolutely fascinating, eg a keyboard instrument, playing a Bach fugue the left and right hand so independent, and this is available to the Guitar as well, where as the instruments that I played were really limited to one line [it is a bit tricky trying to double stop a double bass] I did hear a flute make a pretty good attempt at this but then again Galway was a fine player.


You see that's not what attracts me to the guitar or the piano. It's their chordal capability that is really what got me interested in guitar in the first place. The guitar and piano can fill up so much space and make something sound larger than it actually is. One of my favorite things to do is being an accompanist for a soloist or vocalist.


----------



## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> One of my favorite things to do is being an accompanist for a soloist or vocalist.


Good accompanist's are few on the ground,a friend of mine (a pianist) is great solo but when he accompanies me "not so good" as Gerald Moore said and I quote from his Book "Am I too loud?" IMO he was the greatest accompanist.


----------



## Guest

danae said:


> I'm very curious to hear what you mean. Do you have an example, or is there anything on you tube?


I am sorry but I can't give a link I heard James Galway play a Bach Fugue on TV about 15yrs ago where he used this technique he is also a master of Cyclic or Circular breathing both of these techniques are things to aim for if you play the Flute or maybe other wind instruments to a high standard.


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Good accompanist's are few on the ground,a friend of mine (a pianist) is great solo but when he accompanies me "not so good" as Gerald Moore said and I quote from his Book "Am I too loud?" IMO he was the greatest accompanist.


I'm pretty laid-back when I accompany. I don't play a lot of notes and I leave a lot space for soloist to build their ideas. I might play a few chord voicings and leave a lot of space in them. This gives the soloist a lot of room and every soloist or vocalist I've accompanied said they really liked my style and the fact that I didn't try and play a lot of extra stuff. It's like the phrase "less is more." In the world of comping it certainly is.


----------



## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> I am sorry but I can't give a link I heard James Galway play a Bach Fugue on TV about 15yrs ago where he used this technique he is also a master of Cyclic or Circular breathing both of these techniques are things to aim for if you play the Flute or maybe other wind instruments to a high standard.


One of the best trumpeters I've heard who use circular breathing is Wynton Marsalis. People seem to have a strong dislike for him, but the guy can blow forever! I always thought he was a great trumpeter, if not, one of the greatest of his generation.


----------



## danae

Andante said:


> I am sorry but I can't give a link I heard James Galway play a Bach Fugue on TV about 15yrs ago where he used this technique he is also a master of Cyclic or Circular breathing both of these techniques are things to aim for if you play the Flute or maybe other wind instruments to a high standard.


I'm quite familiar with circular breathing, I know at least two flutists here in Athens who have mastered this technique. 
As for the other thing, I'll simply look for J. Galway on YouTube, or on CD. Do you know any other musicians that have done this, or of composers that have used this technique in published works?


----------



## Guest

danae said:


> Do you know any other musicians that have done this, or of composers that have used this technique in published works?


I would think any top player eg Emmanuel Pahud could do it


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## LuvRavel

Pianists: without doubt the one i dislike the most is Lang Lang! He never bothers to understand the music he's playing but just plays everything by instinct. Complete disregard to the composer's intention. It's hard for the audience to focus on the music itself when everyone have their eyes on his body and face which are always behaving like a lunatic. I think if one indulge oneself too much in playing the music, it is the music itself that will suffer in the end.

Strings: yoyo Ma, he has excellent tone and technique but i detest his interpretation of pieces, everything sounds too sentimental under his bow. Also I think he places his cello too low for my taste.

Composer: Brahms, his music never appears to be streakingly beautiful or just "crap",for me it's neither pleasure or displeasure but it's this neutrality in his music that really put me off.


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## Taneyev

danae said:


> I'm quite familiar with circular breathing, I know at least two flutists here in Athens who have mastered this technique.
> As for the other thing, I'll simply look for J. Galway on YouTube, or on CD. Do you know any other musicians that have done this, or of composers that have used this technique in published works?


Hay una grabación de Bonita Boyd de los 24 de Paganini en flauta sola, en una transcripción del francés Jules Herman. Es absolutamente imposible tocar estos extremadamente difíciles caprichos sin un dominio total de la respiración circular.


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## danae

Taneyev said:


> Hay una grabación de Bonita Boyd de los 24 de Paganini en flauta sola, en una transcripción del francés Jules Herman. Es absolutamente imposible tocar estos extremadamente difíciles caprichos sin un dominio total de la respiración circular.


Sorry, I don't speak spanish but I'll attepmt to translate. Tell me if I got something completely wrong.

"There is a recording [?] with Bonita Boyd of the Paganini 24 for solo flute, and a transcription by the french [?] Jules Herman. It's absolutely impossible to play these extremely difficult capriccios without mastering the technique of circular breathing".

I think most of it is correct, but please post in english next time.


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## Taneyev

OK, Is almost perfect. Only "on" a transcription, no "and". And Herman was a french flutist of the 19th.century.
Now, I wrote in spanish because on a previous post somebody mocked at me for my english. So, if that happen again, I'll return to my lenguage, or I'll leave the forum.


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## Somnifer

I hate Lang Lang, and everything to do with him. His nauseating playing, his idiotic facial expressions, his egocentric interviews, everything.


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## Mirror Image

Somnifer said:


> I hate Lang Lang, and everything to do with him. His nauseating playing, his idiotic facial expressions, his egocentric interviews, everything.


Yeah I'll agree with everything you said and just add that I HATE his name: Lang Lang. I mean that's just stupid.


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## Krummhorn

Not to him, it's not ...  (lol)
He's probably got more money in the bank than I'll ever see in my lifetime ... he must be doing something right. 

True about the reviews though ... one news article referred to hims as "bang bang".


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## LuvRavel

^^ He is a reasonably good pianist i admit BUT there are hundreds of other young pianist who are just as good or better.

The fact that he became famous but not those other hundreds of young people is caused by nothing but chance, before Barenboim took him as a pupil he was Mr nobody, and it just happens that he was the person who played as a substitute for someone else and it also just happens that Barenboim was there to listen to him.

His playing creates illusions, most audience are not very musically iliterate, they tend to "listen with their eyes", judge from what they see. That's why he is immensely popular with audience, because everyone are just dazzled by his wild playing manner, in contrast with the other pianist with their conservative playing manner which tends to bore the musically ilterate audiences. Only the minority who are capable appreciating the music itself will recognise that his playing is bland, mediocre at best.

Yes, he is certainly doing something right, and that is capitalising on the lack of understanding for classical music in the general public. He's playing classical music as if it's a pop or roch concert where showmanship easily overwhelm the music itself. Classical music should not be played that way.


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## Yoshi

I think Lang Lang is good at what he does but sometimes when I listen to him playing I feel like there's some lack of passion. I don't know what it is, but I don't doubt that he has a good tecnique and I know the man worked alot to get where he is now.
I felt like sharing my thoughts about him because of the previews posts. 

To be honest I can't think of a musician I hate. I don't dislike any person who does music unless that person refuses to take it seriously. Those who play music because they truely love it and understand it have my respect.


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## Mrs Amys Music

Jim Brickman.......snore.


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## Anna K.

*Barenboim: mediocre musician, outstanding self-publicist*

I cannot stand Barenboim. He plays piano without finesse, elegance and musicality; he does not seem to love music, and certainly he does not love the composers, as he tries to 'improve' on them. In the end he is neither a great pianist, nor a great conductor, and not a great politician either. He is a great self-publicist, though.


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## Aramis

I also don't like Barenboim's piano playing. His Chopin Cello Sonata with du Pre, uhm...


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## Webernite

I could do without Philip Glass, Vivaldi, certain mediocre harpsichordists, David Fray, Evgeny Kissin, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Vanessa Mae and Nigel Kennedy (not because he's bad, but because he's embarrassing).


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## Taneyev

Anna K. said:


> I cannot stand Barenboim. He plays piano without finesse, elegance and musicality; he does not seem to love music, and certainly he does not love the composers, as he tries to 'improve' on them. In the end he is neither a great pianist, nor a great conductor, and not a great politician either. He is a great self-publicist, though.


Anna, I absolutely agree with you. The most overrated conductor and pianist of the last 30 years.


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## trazom

Another musician I recently noticed who's been popping up on youtube: Fazil Say. Awful! He's supposedly very popular in his home country Turkey. has all the stage antics of Lang Lang, and eccentricities of Glenn Gould, but has no musicality or technical skill to play the pieces he performs to a high standard--at least, not in the performances I've seen.


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## Nix

Don't like Joshua Bell. I'm also not a big fan of Karajan... when he's good he's very good, but he rarely treats slow movement, well... slow. Every time he conducts it all has to have a big sound and be really fast- which is why I can't stand his recording of Beethoven's 6th in particular... or the 5th or the 2nd movement of 7th for that matter. His 9th on the other hand is wonderful. 

Not really understanding all the hate for Barenboim though. His piano work I don't have any complaints, though I suppose it doesn't really stand out, but I love his Beethoven cycle. 

People I love on the other hand:

Kissin for more romantic stuff, Brendel for Classical, Argerich for anything. Hilary Hahn for Bach and more contemporary stuff. Ma and Du Pre is all fine by me, but Isserlis for Bach.


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## Guest

Nix said:


> People I love on the other hand:
> 
> Kissin for more romantic stuff, Brendel for Classical, Argerich for anything. Hilary Hahn for Bach and more contemporary stuff. Ma and Du Pre is all fine by me, but Isserlis for Bach.


No Rostropovich then?


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## Nix

Andante said:


> No Rostropovich then?


For some reason he just doesn't do it for me. I think he's technically brilliant and plays with great emotion, and so many pieces were written because of him, which is why I didn't include him on the 'not like' list, it's just his sound. It's so heavy and thick all the time, and it's like even after he's released the bow the sound is still thick in the air. A cool effect, but I don't want to hear it all the time.


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## Nix

Oh also, I can't stand Pinchas Zuckerman! I saw him at the BSO this year playing Beethoven Violin Concerto... it was awful. Ruined my week.


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## Guest

Nix said:


> Oh also, I can't stand Pinchas Zuckerman! I saw him at the BSO this year playing Beethoven Violin Concerto... it was awful. Ruined my week.


That's terrible, and just not on mate, Iv,e a good mind to drop Pinky an email


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## drth15

Minkowski. Intereventionist conducting at its relentless worst.


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## Yoshi

siboii said:


> britney spears or justin beiber hahahaha


The name of the thread is *Musicians* you don't like


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## Guest

Lang Lang, definitely. Barenboim too, as well as Chailly and Celibidache. I do love, however, Ashkenazy and Karajan. Rostropovich is good too...


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## Yoshi

Sarah Brightman.

Edit: Also, I'm starting to dislike Lang Lang the more I watch him. Same with Valentina Lisitsa...


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## KJohnson

Yani.

))) Don't even know he's worth mentioning here.

I'm ready to puke every time a conversation about classical music starts, someone has to say "Oh! I love classical music. Yani, for example!".... Yikes!!!


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## Delicious Manager

Apologies for any duplications. My first list comprises the great crossover frauds - those who (or their marketers) pretend are at least partly 'classical' artists, but who are second-rate (at best) wannabes:

Andrea Bocelli (I call him 'The Bocellism')
Sarah Brightman
Andrea Giordano (simply excruciatingly bad)
Katherine Jenkins (we all know it's not her voice that sells her CDs...)
Vanessa Mae
Paul Potts
André Rieu (sorry, simply can't abide the awful tosh he produces)
Russell Watson

Then there are the appalling girl electric quartets:

Bond
FUSE
Escala
Miracle
String Fever

Take away the over-produced backing tracks and what have you got? Very little!

Thirdly are those 'composers' of music hardly even suitable for a lift (elevator), mostly of the 'new age' category:

Carter Burwell
Philip Glass ( a few decent filmscores aside)
Ludovico Einaudi
Yiannis Hrysomallis ('Yanni')
I ru-ma ('Yiruma')
Richard Nanes
Michael Nyman

Finally, there are some musicians for whom, for numerous reasons, I have simply lost all respect:

Joshua Bell
James Galway
James Judd


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## bassClef

Andre Rieu - I get Sky Arts 1 and 2 and his awful kitsch concerts are on almost ALL THE TIME! Give me some real concerts!

And that Jenkins woman - I can't believe a big pair has got her this far - damned annoying.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Delicious Manager said:


> Finally, there are some musicians for whom, for numerous reasons, I have simply lost all respect:
> 
> Joshua Bell
> *James Galway*
> James Judd




Well, I see what you mean, he's just too famous/good, he beats everyone. Personally, as a flutist, I don't want to _sound_ exactly like him, but he has good qualities I wish to emulate, like his ability to have a huge projection in all octaves.

Pahud's tone is more delicate, so I personally prefer him more.


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## Delicious Manager

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Well, I see what you mean, he's just too famous/good, he beats everyone. Personally, as a flutist, I don't want to _sound_ exactly like him, but he has good qualities I wish to emulate, like his ability to have a huge projection in all octaves.


Have you heard him recently? He has always cultivated this saccharine-sweet tone, with a tremulous vibrato that makes me feel queasy. He has just one style of playing and a very narrow dynamic range. Nowadays this is all worse than ever. I avoid at all costs.

There are many better flautists today (nearly everyone!).


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## emiellucifuge

bassClef said:


> Andre Rieu - I get Sky Arts 1 and 2 and his awful kitsch concerts are on almost ALL THE TIME! Give me some real concerts!


On behalf of The Netherlands I sincerely apologise.


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## Delicious Manager

emiellucifuge said:


> On behalf of The Netherlands I sincerely apologise.


It's OK - we don't hold you personally responsible


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## Huilunsoittaja

Delicious Manager said:


> Have you heard him recently? He has always cultivated this saccharine-sweet tone, with a tremulous vibrato that makes me feel queasy. He has just one style of playing and a very narrow dynamic range. Nowadays this is all worse than ever. I avoid at all costs.
> 
> There are many better flautists today (nearly everyone!).


I bought the 3 Mozart flute concertos (including the flute and harp concerto) recently, Galway was performing. They were very good, but what perhaps I didn't like was he didn't fit the era. Classical Era flute music has certain tone (light) and use of decoration which he didn't use for some reason. Musicians often tell each other to put a little of oneself into the music (something unique to them), but I would do it with care to style.

Hey, if I were to show a little of my playing, would you think me different?


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## opus55

Manuel said:


> Two valid reasons to hate Lang Lang


Thanks for making sure I hate him forever. Those videos transformed my dislike to HATE


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## Huilunsoittaja

opus55 said:


> Thanks for making sure I hate him forever. Those videos transformed my dislike to HATE


I agree!! What's he doing to Prokofiev?! Abusing him. Grrrr.


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## opus55

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I agree!! What's he doing to Prokofiev?! Abusing him. Grrrr.


Lang Lang takes it to another level - disrespect to the fine instrument and the creator of music. Neither the piano builder or the composer would've appreciated his treatment shown on the video.


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## Barking Spiderz

Blimey, some harsh comments here e.g. about Barenboim's conducting ability. I have his LvB symphony cycle and there's nothing wrong there at all. My own musical schooling is in jazz so I dont feel I can pass judgement on any classical musician or conductor. That said I dont like all this glossy, glitzty crossover stuff that smacks of cheap celebrity. Somehow it demans CM as an art form. But I blame the broadcasting organisations and music companies that are giving CM a pop style makeover. Thing is a lot of people not really into CM will buy an Andre Rieu, Katherine Jenkins or Alfie Boe CD as their token bit of CM and not bother to take it any further.

But, what really irks me is all the fan worship and critical adulation heaped on third rate rock musicians including luminaries like Jimi Hendrix, Eddie van Halen, Slash etc. Listen to John Williams and Paco de Lucia if you want to hear real guitar playing.


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## Il Seraglio

I've come across bad recordings, but rarely musicians that were consistently bad.

I'd mention Andre Rieu, Sarah Brightman, Andrea Bocelli, Nigel Kennedy, Vanessa Mae and Katherine Jenkins -all whom I _hate_- but they're too much like easy targets. This is what I could come up with though.

James Levine - I used to think people were being too harsh on him, but on reflection I think he is probably the worst Wagner conductor I have ever heard. His Tristan is so leaden and dull.

Anna Netrebko - A beautiful woman, but a mediocre soprano. She was a very boring Violetta.

Danielle de Niese - Sad to think production companies feel the need to cast her in order to sell tickets. It's unfair the better singers and actresses out there.

Friedrich Gulda - I just don't like him as a Mozart player. I don't have any specific criticisms other than I would happily have settled for any other pianist in his place (well okay, except Lang Lang).

Leslie Howard - A Liszt connoisseur who has recorded more of his works than any other pianist so it's disappointing to find he plays Liszt completely by the numbers.


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## Guest

Just out of curiosity what have you got against Nigel Kennedy ?


----------



## Il Seraglio

Andante said:


> Just out of curiosity what have you got against Nigel Kennedy ?


It's more his persona than his music. He is a cynical self-publicist and crossover artist at heart who plays violin dressed like Joe Strummer. He also speaks with a broad mockney accent even though his parents are as upper class as they come.

Admittedly, this hilarious video kind of poisoned my mind against him.


----------



## Guest

Well he is a character and a bit eccentric but a great player, I saw him perform the Brahms concerto when he was in NZ must be about 18 years ago, a wonderful experience.


----------



## Huge

Yup. A complete imbecile, and impossible to watch. But boy can he actually play when he wants to.


----------



## KJohnson

Richard Clayderman... Just the idea makes you giggle. Watch a YouTube video of him playing, the audience (mostly middle-aged women) smiling with heavenly satisfaction. There's a bass guitar at the beginning of every bar, a steady drum beat, piano arpeggios flowing across the keyboard... The world is so beautiful!


----------



## Potiphera

Sockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet. Not for me!


----------



## jhar26

Andante said:


> Well he is a character and a bit eccentric but a great player, I saw him perform the Brahms concerto when he was in NZ must be about 18 years ago, a wonderful experience.


I'm not especially a fan, but he does what he wants to do as opposed to what he according to others is supposed to do. If he wants to play Berg with his face painted white he'll do so. If he wants to play arrangements of Jimi Hendrix tunes he'll so so. If he wants to look like Sid Vicious while playing Vivaldi just to get on the nerves of the suits in front of him, he'll do so. Although I have none of his recordings, I can respect his attitude.


----------



## KJohnson

Potiphera said:


> Sockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet. Not for me!


What a fraud this composer was!


----------



## BarenboimFan

Glenn Gould...I don't know why, I just don't like his recordings for some reason, seems like there is no feeling to me. I don't like watching him play either.


----------



## Guest

BarenboimFan said:


> Glenn Gould...I don't know why, I just don't like his recordings for some reason, seems like there is no feeling to me. I don't like watching him play either.


I agree, I have him playing various JSB works + the incessant humming tends to get wearisome


----------



## Stasou

I sure love the sound Fritz Reiner got out of the Chicago Symphony, but watching him conduct is hard to do.


----------



## pocketmahler

Morigan said:


> Nigel Kennedy..?!?


One of the very few musicians I have had the privilege to hear who totally becomes one with his instrument when playing.


----------



## SWILLS

Delicious Manager said:


> Apologies for any duplications. My first list comprises the great crossover frauds - those who (or their marketers) pretend are at least partly 'classical' artists, but who are second-rate (at best) wannabes:
> 
> Andrea Bocelli (I call him 'The Bocellism')
> Sarah Brightman
> Andrea Giordano (simply excruciatingly bad)
> Katherine Jenkins (we all know it's not her voice that sells her CDs...)
> Vanessa Mae
> Paul Potts
> André Rieu (sorry, simply can't abide the awful tosh he produces)
> Russell Watson
> 
> Then there are the appalling girl electric quartets:
> 
> Bond
> FUSE
> Escala
> Miracle
> String Fever
> 
> Take away the over-produced backing tracks and what have you got? Very little!
> 
> Thirdly are those 'composers' of music hardly even suitable for a lift (elevator), mostly of the 'new age' category:
> 
> Carter Burwell
> Philip Glass ( a few decent filmscores aside)
> Ludovico Einaudi
> Yiannis Hrysomallis ('Yanni')
> I ru-ma ('Yiruma')
> Richard Nanes
> Michael Nyman
> 
> Finally, there are some musicians for whom, for numerous reasons, I have simply lost all respect:
> 
> Joshua Bell
> James Galway
> James Judd


Andre Rieu has done more for classical music in the past 20 years than many have managed in a lifetime! and proves that classical does not have to be pompus and stuffy and worse... boring !


----------



## Delicious Manager

SWILLS said:


> Andre Rieu has done more for classical music in the past 20 years than many have managed in a lifetime! and proves that classical does not have to be pompus and stuffy and worse... boring !


I don't know what concerts you go to that are so 'pompous and stuffy and worse... boring!'. Perhaps your choice of concerts is not good. I would argue against any suggestions that 'Andre Rieu has done more for classical music in the past 20 years than many have managed in a lifetime!'. All he has done is popularise and cheapen a very narrow field of classical music, while ignoring the vast majority of it (because it wouldn't fit into his superficial, frothy, lowest-common-denominator concert format). You cannot credit a musician with doing a great service to classical music if all they do is reinforce many people's narrow view of what classical music is, while ignoring 95% of the repertoire.


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Daniel Barenboim, an absolutely good pianist and conductor but the man who wants to make himself as an all around man ! And the same is with Placido Domingo ! Sorry for that !


----------



## kv466

Any 'musician' who composes 'difficult' pieces simply for the sake of being complex...while we know Ludwig van can be sometimes accused of this, the results were not only difficult to play but magnificent and deeply profound pieces of music...the most difficult music of all to compose is a music that will capture the hearts and imaginations of its listeners and this could be only a few notes played by a novice.


----------



## Guest

Well said mcamacho you have hit the nail right on the head


----------



## Ravellian

There are several famous pianists I really don't like. 

Brendel: His readings of Beethoven's sonatas (and everything else) are about as bland, pedantic and unemotional as you can get. He plays the notes on the page and little else.

Argerich: Why does she play everything so damn fast? Faster does not = better. We want to hear the music, not a performer's ego.

Rubinstein: Everyone seems to go ape-**** over his Chopin. To me, his Chopin readings are overly intellectual; every minute detail of the piece sounds like it's been worked out beforehand. I can't stand this kind of playing. Rubato must be felt in the moment, not planned out to that much of an extent.


----------



## kv466

Andante said:


> Well said mcamacho you have hit the nail right on the head


why, thank you...hah...although you don't like Gould (!!)...ah, what can I say...youtube is flooded with me fighting people who are simply not able to appreciate this beyond genius of a musician...still, you seem very nice and i'm past all that...have a great day!


----------



## Guest

Ravellian said:


> Rubinstein


I am angry with Rubinstein, because Brahms was reportedly his favorite composer yet he hardly recorded any of Brahms' music. I still enjoy his performing, however.

Musicians I don't care for: Lang Lang, Barenboim, Celibidache, Alsop, and (yes) Bernstein.


----------



## Aramis

I came to sad conclusion that I am the musician I dislike the most. If I wouldn't be so busy with playing that I hardly hear myself I'm sure I would hate my performance. I do when I record myself sometimes or play with extra consciousness. Even Lang Lang plays better. HOW DARE YOU <hits himself> ARGH


----------



## Guest

Ravellian said:


> Brendel: His readings of Beethoven's sonatas (and everything else) are about as bland, pedantic and unemotional as you can get. He plays the notes on the page and little else.


Have you listened to his 2nd cycle??


----------



## Vaneyes




----------



## tchaik

Actually, I can think of several more valid reasons NOT to LIKE him (Lang Lang)!!!!


----------



## misterjones

Emanuel Ax and Yo Yo Ma. They exude arrogance, commercialism, excessively agressive playing (perhaps to appeal to the rock and roll crowd), and use a variety of annoying histrionics to make it appear as though they're really putting effort into their playing. "Hey, Yo Yo! Use your cheap cello today. We're shootin' the sweat-all-over-the-cello scene today. We'll dub the sound in later."


----------



## Guest

I love Emanuel Ax. I heard him play Brahms' B-flat piano concerto and it was the best live performance I've ever heard. And I haven't seen the "arrogant" vibe from him either.


----------



## misterjones

I heard him at Lincoln Center. He may very well be (or have been) a great pianist, but his playing style seemed VERY exaggerated (I guess he was trying to make it look like he was REALLY giving it his all) and he took it upon himself (along with the conductor, I'm sure) to add additional music to the end of a Mozart piano concerto. And when Ma and Ax play together, it's a sickening lovefest.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I just listened to them and didn't have to watch their schtick.


----------



## Moscow-Mahler

It's interesting that lots of people don't like or don't care about Barenboim. I have recently attended his concert in Berlin Philharmonie - and it seems to me that he MUST end his carrier as a pianist. His Mozart was dull. The orchestra (Staatskapelle Berlin) playing was also boring and academical in Mozart. 

In Mahler the orchestra was much better. Maybe, they are better in late romanticism.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

misterjones said:


> Emanuel Ax and Yo Yo Ma. They exude arrogance, commercialism, excessively agressive playing (perhaps to appeal to the rock and roll crowd), and use a variety of annoying histrionics to make it appear as though they're really putting effort into their playing. "Hey, Yo Yo! Use your cheap cello today. We're shootin' the sweat-all-over-the-cello scene today. We'll dub the sound in later."


That reminds me of what happened at Obama's inauguration ceremony.  Yo-Yo Ma was there, with some others, and they were all playing fake instruments with a recording playing on top of them (It was too cold to actually play outside).


----------



## TxllxT

Osawa, Uchida, most of Karl Böhm, Barenboim (both conducting & on piano), Salonen, Concentus Musicus Wien, most of Pavarotti, René Kollo, Inbal, Mehta...


----------



## Aramis

Anna Netrebko


----------



## daspianist

This guy.


----------



## Philip




----------



## Il_Penseroso

Rostropovich : Such a famous virtuoso acting like a showman , a mimer rather than a patient and dignified musician, not a deep character like his friends Oistrakh and Richter. 

Yo-Yo Ma : Also the same ! There's no need for a virtuoso to make such a sentimental facial expression ! Don't show yourself, just play and let us enjoy your playing !


----------



## Keychick

Giovannimusica said:


> Actually there is one musician that makes me want to gag and that is *Yawni*(Yanni). What he delves in is pure and smarmy unctuousness - YECH!!!!!!!


Without a question gotta be Yanni. The said performer just doesn't cut it at all.
I gave him a good chance, two hours. Im surprised i did that?


----------



## Vaneyes

Il_Penseroso said:


> Rostropovich : Such a famous virtuoso acting like a showman , a mimer rather than a patient and dignified musician, not a deep character like his friends Oistrakh and Richter.
> 
> Yo-Yo Ma : Also the same ! There's no need for a virtuoso to make such a sentimental facial expression ! Don't show yourself, just play and let us enjoy your playing !


Well, atleast Slava and Yo-Yo had each other.


----------



## Vaneyes

daspianist said:


> This guy.


Funny, thinking of, McCain's announcement for Obama.


----------



## Vaneyes

Moscow-Mahler said:


> It's interesting that lots of people don't like or don't care about Barenboim. I have recently attended his concert in Berlin Philharmonie - and it seems to me that he MUST end his carrier as a pianist. His Mozart was dull. The orchestra (Staatskapelle Berlin) playing was also boring and academical in Mozart.
> 
> In Mahler the orchestra was much better. Maybe, they are better in late romanticism.


Yes, Barenboim seems to polarize. He's a busy man, so maybe he's under-prepared in the bad outings, as Gergiev seems to be. I think their best is behind them.


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Vaneyes said:


> Well, atleast Slava and Yo-Yo had each other.


Exactly !  -------> :lol:



> Yes, Barenboim seems to polarize. He's a busy man, so maybe he's under-prepared in the bad outings, as Gergiev seems to be. *I think their best is behind them.*


Confirmed !


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Boris Berezovsky, always seems to fight with the instrument when playing !


----------



## Moscow-Mahler

> Yes, Barenboim seems to polarize. He's a busy man, so maybe he's under-prepared in the bad outings, as Gergiev seems to be. I think their best is behind them.


Maybe. But in fact he was quite good as a conductor in the perfomance of Mahler's Ninth. So, it wasn't unrehearesed.

*But I think he should (or even MUST) have invited some other pianist.* He is an old man. It is a right time to step down as a pianist. He can be a conductor of die Staatskapelle Berlin (for them he was a good choice). And he can write books, I suppose. He has verbal and oratorical talents.


----------



## violadude

opus55 said:


> Thanks for making sure I hate him forever. Those videos transformed my dislike to HATE


hmm I actually kind of like those videos...:/ I think he's just having a little fun.


----------



## Sofronitsky

Il_Penseroso said:


> Boris Berezovsky, always seems to fight with the instrument when playing !


By the amount of sweat he sprays on the audience, it seems the piano always wins.

Seriously, they should have a tarp for the front row at his recitals.


----------



## World Violist

I feel like I must make it official by posting it here (I have no idea if I've posted it before and I'm not gonna look through 19 pages to find out): I don't like William Primrose. Technical brilliance doesn't do it for me and bright, harsh tone on a viola doesn't do it for me. He didn't have much else to offer.

As for others...hmm...I think I've already put down all of those I've talked about previously on here. Joshua Bell, Maxim Vengerov, Midori, Yo-Yo Ma...most of them for more or less similar reasons.


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Martha Argerich: a pianist with a superb technique, no doubt, but never a sign of artistic manner in her playing, rather a machine than a human being on the piano.


----------



## Sid James

What about a thread titled "Threads you don't like?" & you can guess which one I'd name first given that scenario - THIS ONE!!!...


----------



## violadude

Why does everyone hate lang lang so much?


----------



## Delicious Manager

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate lang lang so much?


Because his priority is his image, not the music. He makes exaggerated hand and arm gestures like a latter-day Liberace, pulls the most appalling and stomach-turning faces and distorts a lot of the music he plays through unmusical ritardandos, accellerandos, pauses, etc. Yes, he has a great technical ability, but he's no true MUSICIAN.


----------



## Guest

Sid James said:


> What about a thread titled "Threads you don't like?" & you can guess which one I'd name first given that scenario - THIS ONE!!!...


I am with you on that one Sid, talk about the Tall Poppy Syndrome just wait until some of our posters become well known, the thing is, in to days PC world eccentrics and people with strong and/or unusual characters are ridiculed, just plain jealousy if you ask me and I bet the artists concerned don't give a ***** :devil:


----------



## Sid James

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate lang lang so much?


I think what member Delicious Manager says does carry some weight, but Lang Lang is doing some good things for classical music, particularly in China. I recently read an interview with him in which he said he's in the process of setting up music schools of excellence across the country. Don't forget that in the era of Chairman Mao, Western classical music was literally banned in China, so what Lang Lang is doing is a step in the right direction there, imo. When we think of musicians, often we only think of them as performers on the world stage, but many of them are much more than that. Lang Lang is obviously going the way of the late Sir Yehudi Menuhin, who set up his music schools across the UK.

As for Lang Lang's personal mannerisms/idiosyncracies, I was once p*ssed off at this too, but now I remember that some of the local musicians here in Australia that I see live once in a while, have these same kinds of mannerisms. Eg. Richard Tognetti, the excellent violinist who is director of our Australian Chamber Orchestra has mannerisms galore, eg. throwing his head back expressively, doing a "squat" when the music goes low/deep, these kinds of things. My sister saw him of the Classical Destinations dvd, and she thought he was hilarious! An acquaintance of mine in the music industry thinks Mr Tognetti is a "******" and "try-hard." But basically, when it boils down to it, whatever these things, the audience is there to listen to the music, and musicians mainly communicate through music (but obviously not in dramatic works like opera).

BTW, that newspaper article stated that Lang Lang is pronounced in the Chinese as LONG LONG.

*@ Andante* - agree with you 110 per cent there. I used to be sucked in to this kind of negative thinking (though I don't think I did any of it on this thread when it was fresh ages ago). Now I just go by the attitude if a composer or musician gives me say 5 or 10 percent (although these things are impossible to quantify) of pleasure and engagement, I am greatful for that. Who knows, the next time I listen to their music, what I get out of it might be notched up to say 20 percent, then 30, and so on. It's better to come to these things with a positive frame of mind, rather than this **** and pedantic focussing on tiny details.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

If a performer bothers you by how they look when playing, well then simply shut your eyes and keep your ears wide open. And if what you hear still bothers you, then you might have more of a case to complain ...


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Seems odd ! Everybody's free to share her/his thoughts about the famous musicians around the world, whether we (and you) like them or not ! just innocent criticizing ! So, what's the matter friends ?


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Il_Penseroso said:


> Seems odd ! Everybody's free to share her/his thoughts about the famous musicians around the world, whether we (and you) like them or not ! just innocent criticizing ! So, what's the matter friends ?


All cool my friend. hehe... yes, about rather exaggerated gestures when performing, I find pianist Mitsuko Uchida perhaps so. But I'm not bothered by it, she is a standout in both performance and performing gestures. Perhaps idiosyncratic might be a better term in this case.


----------



## Sid James

Yes, Uchida does come to mind, as does Glenn Gould with his grunting. & yet we tend not to focus on these negatives (or "idiosyncracies" as you put it) with these excellent musicians, so why do this with other people?...


----------



## Delicious Manager

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> If a performer bothers you by how they look when playing, well then simply shut your eyes and keep your ears wide open. And if what you hear still bothers you, then you might have more of a case to complain ...


Even if I keep my eyes closed, my ears abhor Lang Lang's wanton, unmusical and self-obsessed distortion of the music.


----------



## Guest

Delicious Manager said:


> Even if I keep my eyes closed, my ears abhor Lang Lang's wanton, unmusical and self-obsessed distortion of the music.


The fix is in your hands DM why not put him on your ignore list seriously just stay away from him


----------



## Sofronitsky

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate lang lang so much?


 




For me, it's because of this.


----------



## Delicious Manager

Andante said:


> The fix is in your hands DM why not put him on your ignore list seriously just stay away from him


I _DO_ avoid him, but am occasionally reminded of the little showman; through questions like this in forums, for example!:tiphat:


----------



## TRendfrey

I started to dislike Lang Lang after watching multiple interpretations of Chopin that he did. God he butchered it so bad! I like his personality when he's NOT playing but its annoying when all that energy becomes friggin cannonballs at the keys.


----------



## eorrific

Sofronitsky said:


> For me, it's because of this.


Lang Lang, the faux autistic epileptic.


----------



## samurai

One thing is for certain about Lang Lang; he will never be accused of not enjoying himself at the bench. I guess the question becomes, do his antics and mugging take anything away from the quality of the music he's playing? I suspect the majority of people who belong to this forum would answer in the affirmative!


----------



## Il_Penseroso

samurai said:


> One thing is for certain about Lang Lang; he will never be accused of not enjoying himself at the bench.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## cowboylogger

I only hate rap music is all


----------



## Sid James

Regarding what I said about* Lang Lang *in an earlier post here (quote below), here is a link to the article I read about him a month or two ago in one of our most-read broadsheets. It certainly sheds more light on the man than just his (I quite agree) over the top mannerisms. He's even recently played Berg's _Chamber Concerto_ live in Berlin, which I didn't know; I'm not sure how the Berliners reacted to his performance of that? (& as I said in my quote below, he's also doing some good things raising the profile of classical music in China, access to education, etc. - these things are discussed in the article) -

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/interview-lang-lang-20110512-1ej8s.html



Sid James said:


> I think what member Delicious Manager says does carry some weight, but Lang Lang is doing some good things for classical music, particularly in China. I recently read an interview with him in which he said he's in the process of setting up music schools of excellence across the country. Don't forget that in the era of Chairman Mao, Western classical music was literally banned in China, so what Lang Lang is doing is a step in the right direction there, imo. When we think of musicians, often we only think of them as performers on the world stage, but many of them are much more than that. Lang Lang is obviously going the way of the late Sir Yehudi Menuhin, who set up his music schools across the UK.


----------



## Klavierspieler

Lang Lang may be doing good things for China, but that doesn't prevent me from disliking his gesticulations and interpretations.


----------



## Cyber

I don't like Clayderman...


----------



## Lukecash12

The young ones, hehe. And then, those older ones who play like the young ones. I'm amazed at how many pianists overdo every change in dynamics, don't make a distinction between mf, f, or even ff. Then mp is played just the same as mf, and p is played just the same as pp. That, and they don't appear to know half of the ways you could strike a key.

For example: I was having a discussion with a pianist (grade 8) who had just given a recital at UOP, and chattered a little bit with him about pulled towards yourself for legato, and pushing forward for staccatto. He had never heard of that before, and I then continued to ask him if he ever played flat fingered for ff or pp, what the cartwheel position was, if he ever played thumb over, the different ways he used the sostenuto pedal, etc. All I could tell was that he could play with consistent tempo, minimal motion, and with fluid wrists that didn't often rest more than four inches above the board. And he was considered a really good player, had won a couple tournaments.

Just shook the guy's hand and left flabbergasted. I guess there's a reason that people nowadays think Horowitz was a genius in his experimental era, that young Berezovsky was exciting, and that there is nothing better than a transition from pp to ff, or better yet ppp to fff, hehe.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja




----------



## Ravellian

I hate Lang Lang as well. Watching him play is like watching a guy ************* for the world to see. Even worse, some fellow pianists at my college tried to emulate him. God.


----------



## Lenfer

I strongly dislike *Nigel Kennedy*.


----------



## Artemis

I have to admit that Pavarotti has never appealed much to me. I don't doubt that his voice and technical skill was of the very highest quality, but I'm afraid that he has one of those voices which so immediately identifies him, in whatever role he took. I guess I find it is too "coloured" for my liking, and I prefer a more neutral sounding opera singer like, for instance, Domingo or Björling.


----------



## Il_Penseroso

For those who dislike Lang Lang :






Have fun !

And here he's playing Prokofiev's Piano Concerto No.3 (Poor Prokofiev !)


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Kostelanetz...just bad. von Karajan, excellent but we should write...KarajanSS

Martin


----------



## Moscow-Mahler

An interesting article about Barenboim's mediocre piano-playing in Milano:
http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_...nboim-gets-imperially-booed-at-la-scala-.html

Well, it seems to me that my impressions (in Berlin on May) was correct. I'm still *angry!* 
Fortunately, Mahler Ninth was very good (and Staatskapelle Berlin sounds better in late-romantic music, I suppose).


----------



## myaskovsky2002

Pierre Boulez. He thinks he's God! (Like De Gaule) Unless he thinks something...

Martin


----------



## MarkJackson

I hate Nigel Kennedy and his joint smoking self (cite my bitter tone), and Joan Sutherland's timbre sometimes gets on my nerves. Beverly Sills's vibrato sometimes gives me headaches in delicate light coloratura roles. Sarah Chang beats the shipoopi out of her beautiful del Gésu but the sound she produces is kind of worth it in my eyes.


----------



## TrazomGangflow

I don't like anyone who plays classical music but uses it to advertise their own skills. I hate it when people put a picture of themselves on the front of music in a flashy or attention catching way. I am much more likely to purchase a CD with a picture of the composer on the front than a picture of the performer unless the performer is someone I HIGHLY revere.


----------



## TrazomGangflow

Il_Penseroso said:


> For those who dislike Lang Lang :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun !
> 
> And here he's playing Prokofiev's Piano Concerto No.3 (Poor Prokofiev !)


I would consider that piano abuse.


----------



## Lenfer

Ravellian said:


> I hate Lang Lang as well. Watching him play is like watching a guy ************* for the world to see. Even worse, some fellow pianists at my college tried to emulate him. God.


I hadn't heard him play till recently albeit only a CD recording, then having seen a clip from his DVD I think I know what you mean when you say "*************".

He's still not bad enough to knock old Nigel off the top spot though.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I'm amazed that a thread dedicated to "musicians you don't like" can go on for 23 pages. One would think the time might be better spent discussing musicians you do like.


----------



## Jobe

Ooh actually, I met Nigel Kennedy when at an Aston Villa game (he was outside having a sneaky ***, I think), he being a supporter of the football team, and Aston Villa being my local team.

Upon greeting him, I offered my hand and said that I played the violin. He offered a fist bump/knuckle bump.

I had to be sick in a bucket (and give my Daily Mail Nigel Kennedy's Four Seasons to a charity shop).


----------



## mleghorn

matt78 said:


> I'd agree with previous postings about Lang Lang. Superficially, his playing his impressive but when you listen to him playing music you know, its clear that he is often not understanding its meaning OR playing the right notes.


That's what I've observed too. I have the Lang Lang / Eschenbach Beethoven 4th piano concerto. It sounds like a robot is playing the piano. To make matters worse, the piano is mic'ed too closely.


----------



## Barelytenor

I'm too lazy to see how many times Lang Lang has been mentioned in this thread. But I'll say it twice for good measure (or perhaps _senza misura_ would be more appropriate.) Lang Lang.


----------



## TrazomGangflow

Sorry I didn't realize that I already posted basically the same thing on this thread already.


----------



## Stroopwafel

Nigel Kennedy. I think I have made my point.


----------



## Crudblud

The virtuoso electric guitarists. All of them.


----------



## Lukecash12

Artemis said:


> I have to admit that Pavarotti has never appealed much to me. I don't doubt that his voice and technical skill was of the very highest quality, but I'm afraid that he has one of those voices which so immediately identifies him, in whatever role he took. I guess I find it is too "coloured" for my liking, and I prefer a more neutral sounding opera singer like, for instance, Domingo or Björling.


Going back to this, reminds me of my love for Bjorling.


----------



## moody

Artemis said:


> I have to admit that Pavarotti has never appealed much to me. I don't doubt that his voice and technical skill was of the very highest quality, but I'm afraid that he has one of those voices which so immediately identifies him, in whatever role he took. I guess I find it is too "coloured" for my liking, and I prefer a more neutral sounding opera singer like, for instance, Domingo or Björling.


I can't believe that you could think that Bjorling is more neutral voice wise than Pavarotti, it's completel;y the other way round. But on the other hand you could instantly recognise Gigli, Caruso, Martinelli, Tauber, Callas, Sutherland, usw,usw.


----------



## Sofronitsky

I would like to nominate every tiny asian girl that played at the winners recital for the state piano competition I performed in tonight. Some fascination with the Copland's Cat and Mouse...


----------



## Lukecash12

Sofronitsky said:


> I would like to nominate every tiny asian girl that played at the winners recital for the state piano competition I performed in tonight. Some fascination with the Copland's Cat and Mouse...


No offense to the Asian ethnic groups, but I don't like the oriental pedagogues very much. Their music is either dull, glossy, played at the wrong tempo, or even Horowitz style showy.


----------



## Guest

I wonder if we had a thread "musicians that you really like" would it have any posters?


----------



## Itullian

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") amazing, i did it!


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Andante said:


> I wonder if we had a thread "musicians that you really like" would it have any posters?


But we have one, here.

Personally, I don't like a few musicians which I pointed in this thread before, but quite in oppsite there are many musicians I adore wholeheartedly, too many to name them all in a thread ...


----------



## Itullian

Joshua Bell, Langy Lang, Mariss Janson and Harnoncourt.


----------



## appoggiatura

*Lang Lang*, Berezovsky in general, Zimerman in general, Argerich in general...


----------



## Juan

Have you realized that almost all famous interpreters/conductors have been mentionned, at least by someone, as a musician they dont like? :lol:


----------



## Moscow-Mahler

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Kostelanetz...just bad. von Karajan, excellent but we should write...KarajanSS
> 
> Martin


Unfortunately, a reptile attitude towards the goverment is not unusual today. E.g. Gergiev is sometimes very reptile to Putin. And today I found that Denis Matsuev is also. He, Gergiev and some other well-paid artists support our government, while the independent middle-class people hate it more and more.

I do not hate Gergiev or Matsuev, but I decided not to support them with MY MONEY anymore. BTW, Matsuev concerts are much more expenseve (even in Moscow) then other famous Russian pianists. Seems to me that some artists can't get enough money. OK. But they will not get MY money anymore, if the want to support that corruptionist regime.


----------



## humanbean

I think the only thing I dislike more than Lang Lang's ridiculous showmanship are his mainstream classical fans that like him for his antics. These people have probably never heard the names Rubinstein, Horowitz or Schnabel, and probably don't even care to.

Another pianist who I cannot stand to watch perform is Mitsuko Uchida (though she is a good performer - I do enjoy her Mozart piano sonata cycle). Just watch the following video - the facial expressions are unnecessary and disgusting!






One may argue that bottling up your emotions during a performance is a bad idea because a performer can't "express" themselves. Well, I have no problem if this is done in restraint. For instance, take Bohm's conducting in this following video. You can definitely tell he's enjoying himself, but he remains completely professional throughout the movement.


----------



## tgtr0660

Sir Roger Norrington.


----------



## Sid James

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I'm amazed that a thread dedicated to "musicians you don't like" can go on for 23 pages. One would think the time might be better spent discussing musicians you do like.


Yep, humans love to be negative, and I wouldn't be surprised if this thread is still going after 50, 75 maybe even 100 pages (in which case it can get a "hundredth birthday" letter from the Queen of England*).

* Very bad joke there, not even a joke .



Jobe said:


> Ooh actually, I met Nigel Kennedy when at an Aston Villa game (he was outside having a sneaky ***, I think), he being a supporter of the football team, and Aston Villa being my local team.
> 
> Upon greeting him, I offered my hand and said that I played the violin. He offered a fist bump/knuckle bump.
> 
> I had to be sick in a bucket (and give my Daily Mail Nigel Kennedy's Four Seasons to a charity shop).


Musicians tend not to like to give you their hands to shake, for obvious reasons (eg. some person may either intentionally or not crush or damage their hand if they squeeze it too hard, etc.). I've been in situtations after concerts when I have offered them my hand and they refused to shake it, for these kinds of reasons. So maybe Mr. Kennedy was being nice in giving you a fist bump.

I also think his punk image is a bit cliche now, but he's a violinist I admire, esp. with modern repertoire (eg. his early account with Previn of the Walton concertos was among the best) and also for commissioning much new music. It's the substance I'm interested in, not the superficial image...


----------



## Guest

I agree with you Sid our Nige is a great musician not only classical but he has dabbled in jazz as well I really don't know what Jobe expected but Nigel needs a bit of space at times at least he did not ignore him, but you can't please everyone. I have only seen him live once when he performed the Brahms.


----------



## bigshot

Ozawa. Don't like the sound. Don't like the hair.


----------



## jhar26

Sid James said:


> *I also think his punk image is a bit cliche now*, but he's a violinist I admire, esp. with modern repertoire (eg. his early account with Previn of the Walton concertos was among the best) and also for commissioning much new music. It's the substance I'm interested in, not the superficial image...


I think the man in a suit with no hair out of place (if he has any) is much more of a cliche when it comes to classical musicians.


----------



## Cnote11

I honestly can't think of any classical musicians I flat out do not like. There are some that don't completely do it for me or some that I like better than others, but none that I actually dislike in any way. I guess I don't dwell too much upon it. There are musicians outside the realm of classical I listen to that I don't like whatsoever. Mainly a lot of New Age artists... Yiruma for one. I don't like that kind of playing.


----------



## PetrB

Marc-Andre Hamelin. Music typist, mistakes articulation and dynamics for music. Have yet to hear anything of recordings where I can detect any music coming out. Has not one jot of color on any key he depresses, and that is depressing.

Valentina Lisitsa - all the chops AND the sloppiest Chopin I've heard outside of a music conservatory.

Nigel Kennedy ~ that punk bad boy anti-social edge is really tired on a fifty-year old man, and it gives an unnecessary 'edge' to all he plays.

Joshua Bell ~ plays like a God, but music from different eras and different genres to me sounds as played all the same.

Lang-Lang ~ all ham, all about you, and a seemingly infantile persona do not encourage or support good adult music-making.

Composers - or - "why anyone wants or needs more of That is beyond my comprehension..."
Karl Jenkins (Mr. 'Diamond Music) / John Rutter / Eric Whitacre (Mr. Whitachords) / Philip Glass 

One should NOT venture anywhere near the pop world for this answer, because it is so 'loaded.', but if one does:
This is just the tip of an iceberg the size of a small continent, but....
Vanessa Mae
Apocalyptica
Richard Clayderman
John Schmidt (The piano guy)
Secret Garden
The Cello Guy
Yanni

Having answered, I should here let Herr Brahms' words speak for me, 
“If there is anyone here whom I have not insulted, I beg his pardon."


----------



## bigshot

PetrB said:


> Has not one jot of color on any key he depresses, and that is depressing.


i can think of a few conductors who do the same for orchestral music.


----------



## PetrB

matt78 said:


> ... I have a particular dislike for singers who are marketed as opera stars but have never even sung a complete role on stage. Step forward Bocelli, Potts, Watson, and Jenkins as prime suspects. They all lack real vocal quality and they just don't show any understanding of the characterisation of the music. I've read so many people praising Bocelli's ability to communicate, but to me he sounds completely souless and cold and his atrocious vocal technique only makes matters worse.


You will enjoy this confirmation of your - my opinion on these Popera singers...
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/news/these-people-have-never-sung-an-opera-in-their-lives-6296320.html?fb_action_ids=10151228600965646&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_source=other_multiline


----------



## PetrB

Mayerl said:


> The fuss about Alfred Brendel is simply because, like many other pianists of his generation, he is a time-served, dedicated musician who has taken many, many years to learn his craft, and learn it well.
> How many of the "Wunderkinder" of recent times, the competition winners, the finger technicians, will still be practicing their art in 50 years time.


I'd like to add to your already well-presented points.

Brendel, and others like him, are anti 'cult of personality.' The cult of personality is our present rage, classical concert promoters have jumped on the bandwagon as well -- and it is a vogue that I believe is lethal to good music making.

I think there is a younger generation of both performer and audience who now believe the personality game is what real music is about. Brendel, well, when you hear nobody at the instrument but the composer, that dedicated lifetime of working at the craft, subsuming any ego to the full service of the music, THAT is supreme musicianship, a Servant Of The Craft And The Repertoire, as it should be. That quality used to be innately understood as being part of the meaning of 'Virtuoso.'

You cannot hear Vivaldi because the Nigel Kennedy's et alia are so much in the way... nor whatever is played by Lang-Lang, because it is all about Lang-Lang and nothing about the music.

Brendel reflexively breathes Schubert so organically one would think you are hearing the composer play - it is 'just' Schubert. The less than inflated repute of Roger Muraro, playing both Liszt and Messaien with a personal passion, but staying out of the composer's way, is much less glitterly than the unbelievably sloppy Chopin playing of a blonde and bosomy slavic pianist, and she gets the world-wide attention over the attention given a superb Muraro.

It seems impossible for a younger generation to grasp that the performer is not 'erased' and there still remains plenty of room for a personal 'interpretation' -- but within that, the music is never a vehicle for the performer as spotlight thereon. I think to many that is as ungraspable as a Zen Koan, and more is the pity for music.


----------



## PetrB

Andante said:


> I am sorry but I can't give a link I heard James Galway play a Bach Fugue on TV about 15yrs ago where he used this technique he is also a master of Cyclic or Circular breathing both of these techniques are things to aim for if you play the Flute or maybe other wind instruments to a high standard.


Hosts of classical musicians and both living and dead composers would be grateful if you would avoid his Hollywood Schmaltz 
'n' Cheese vibrato, though.


----------



## Cnote11

I applaud the list you made of the "pop" musicians, PetrB. I've met numerous people who claim they love classical and list off such performers. They like to think it makes them sophisticated and I've even had some look down on me because I didn't listen to, or sometimes didn't know, who they were, only to find out they are rubbish like that. It is even funnier when they mention that they love them and that they have "a song", as in a single song, on their mp3 players. I find this happens a lot, even with better composers. I often hear them mention they "love" Debussy, or Mozart, Beethoven, or Tchaikovsky, and then state their most famous "song" that they take isolated from a work, and it is the only one that they have.


----------



## Lenfer

Sid James said:


> Musicians tend not to like to give you their hands to shake, for obvious reasons (eg. some person may either intentionally or not crush or damage their hand if they squeeze it too hard, etc.). I've been in situtations after concerts when I have offered them my hand and they refused to shake it, for these kinds of reasons. So maybe Mr. Kennedy was being nice in giving you a fist bump.
> 
> I also think his punk image is a bit cliche now, but he's a violinist I admire, esp. with modern repertoire (eg. his early account with Previn of the Walton concertos was among the best) and also for commissioning much new music. It's the substance I'm interested in, not the superficial image...


My other half never shakes hands with anyone. He will hold my hand and great a women a appropriately but I've never seen him shake hands. I've always just thought it was a quirk of his, he always wears gloves outside (even in summer) etc. But what you said may explain it, why this never occurred to me I don't know.

*Sid* you often use "humans" in your posts. I had thought you were an intergalactic spy sent her to spy on us possibly gather intel for a forthcoming invasion. This only confirms my suspicion.


----------



## moody

Lenfer said:


> My other half never shakes hands with anyone. He will hold my hand and great a women a appropriately but I've never seen him shake hands. I've always just thought it was a quirk of his, he always wears gloves outside (even in summer) etc. But what you said may explain it, why this never occurred to me I don't know.
> 
> *Sid* you often use "humans" in your posts. I had thought you were an intergalactic spy sent her to spy on us possibly gather intel for a forthcoming invasion. This only confirms my suspicion.


I'm only surprised you had not realised this before, the fact that he is purple was the first clue I noticed.


----------



## moody

TrazomGangflow said:


> I don't like anyone who plays classical music but uses it to advertise their own skills. I hate it when people put a picture of themselves on the front of music in a flashy or attention catching way. I am much more likely to purchase a CD with a picture of the composer on the front than a picture of the performer unless the performer is someone I HIGHLY revere.


The artists don't put pictures on the front of sleeves for goodness sake, it is the marketing depatment of the record company.


----------



## Lenfer

TrazomGangflow said:


> I don't like anyone who plays classical music but uses it to advertise their own skills. I hate it when people put a picture of themselves on the front of music in a flashy or attention catching way. I am much more likely to purchase a CD with a picture of the composer on the front than a picture of the performer unless the performer is someone I HIGHLY revere.


I sometimes see a cover like this and wonder if they would sell so many albums if they were not pretty/handsome. Then I think there are some really pretty/handsome musicians out there and it's not their fault they happening to be appealing to both my eyes and ears. There are also just as many not so appealing musicians out there who appear on their covers.

It's also pretty hard to project musical talent with just a picture unless your *Rostropovich*... :tiphat:


----------



## Badinerie

Cant say I really "Hate" any musician, but Jessye Norman comes close. Its possibly a personal taste thing but...eeuuch!


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I don't like Andres Segovia


----------



## Turangalîla

Daniel said:


> I don't like Cziffra or Hamelin...you only hear finger, superb technique yes, but I cannot hear the "music"...


I couldn't agree more. Virtuosy has never impressed me if the interpretation is not meaningful. Cziffra and Hamelin do not play expressively or profoundly (for my taste, anyways).


----------



## Mahan

Yanni... and... Mozart !!! yes! his music always has a happy feeling... it doesn't make u go in a deep emotional feeling.. i hope u get what i mean!...


----------



## Delicious Manager

Mahan said:


> Yanni... and... Mozart !!! yes! his music always has a happy feeling... it doesn't make u go in a deep emotional feeling.. i hope u get what i mean!...


Yanni is not a composer - he is a mere manufacturer of cynical instrumental pop.


----------



## Jaws

I am not sure what this thread is about. I don't actually know many really famous musicians, so I can't say whether I like them or not. I like listening to them play though.


----------



## Klavierspieler

Not a huge fan of Gould, personally.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Klavierspieler said:


> Not a huge fan of Gould, personally.


  filler


----------



## Il_Penseroso

Klavierspieler said:


> Not a huge fan of Gould, personally.


Mee too, but he was such a great pianist, whether I (we) personally like him or not !


----------



## Guest

Any musician who makes a "cross-over" recording.


----------



## Rinaldino

I know this may sound a bit strange, but I really don't like Bernstein as a conductor. I got even bored of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis because of him the first time I listened to it. Then I bought Klemperer: whole different story. I adore it and it is among my top ten CDs. I still have just one recording of Bernstein: Mahler 9th symphony with Berliner. 
I also detest Placido Domingo: his abit to sing the whole tenor repertoire even when he's obviously not suited to is annoying. His Tannhauser and Don Carlo are really good though.


----------



## Klavierspieler

On second thought, I like Gould for contemporary repertoire (just listen to that Berg Sonata) but not for anything else (his Bach disgusts me).


----------



## Anna K.

*Barenboim*



Aramis said:


> I also don't like Barenboim's piano playing. His Chopin Cello Sonata with du Pre, uhm...


This was du Pré who was a genius! Don't confuse the two. Barenboim is fantasticallty good at snatching others' greatness to enhance his self-image e.g. Beethoven's music, Goethe's verse (with his West-East Divan). He is a real genius of self-propaganda, and it works with the masses.


----------



## Ravndal

Leif Ove Andsnes
Alfred Brendel
Evgeny Kissin
Lang lang
Valentina Lisita
Daniel Barenboim

As i can think of


----------



## AndorFoldes

Lang Lang
Roger Norrington


----------



## BurningDesire

I'm not a fan of Glenn Gould either. If I wanted to hear music played like a robot, I'd listen to MIDI versions of those pieces. Also I don't think Bach intended for the keyboardist to make jazz noises while they played his music.


----------



## Ravndal

BurningDesire said:


> I'm not a fan of Glenn Gould either. If I wanted to hear music played like a robot, I'd listen to MIDI versions of those pieces. Also I don't think Bach intended for the keyboardist to make jazz noises while they played his music.


Glenn Gould plays like a robot? How much have you heard of him?

This is a piece of bach, and almost every musician plays it like this 




Glenn Gould plays it like this 





I respect if you don't like his interpretations, but 'robot' is wrong.


----------



## Guest

You could never accuse Gould of being "robot" in fact he is only next to Lang Lang in terms of animated performances plus he gives vocal accompaniment free of charge.


----------



## ethanjamesescano

Debussy, He started Impressionism


----------



## Ravndal

booooooo


----------



## BurningDesire

ethanjamesescano said:


> Debussy, He started Impressionism


Nope :3 that would be painters like Claude Monet and Pierre-Auguste Renoir


----------



## Guest

BurningDesire said:


> Nope :3 that would be painters like Claude Monet and Pierre-Auguste Renoir


Well that is not entirly right ! Debusy and Ravel were likened to the impressionists 
http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/music/kamien/student/olc/29.htm


----------



## ErinD

Glenn Gould


----------



## ErinD

I hate, HATE his Bach and the rest of his stuff is impressive but leaves me cold.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I hate Karl Richter's Bach. I hate Karl Böhm's Mozart and Beethoven.


----------



## Guest

I hate em all............


----------



## drzarkov

I would have to say Kenny G. His Antarctica Symphony left me cold.


----------



## Ravndal

adding 

kempff
barenboim
ashkenazy
gavrilov
richter


----------



## DavidA

This thread is idiotic in a forum such as this. There are musicians, composers, etc, I do not like. What do I do? Simply not listen to them! What makes people furious is when other people actually like them and buy their discs in huge numbers.


----------



## Ravndal

That may be, but it would only be offensive if you cared more about others opinions than your own?


----------



## DavidA

Ravndal said:


> That may be, but it would only be offensive if you cared more about others opinions than your own?


Good point. What it does mean is that we have many people who get angry when people like what they don't. What really makes them angry is when the performers they don't like (eg Ms Jenkins) are popular and their discs sell by the truck load. Now if Ms Jenkins was to fall and break her neck, that would make them happy.


----------



## Ravndal

As a matter of fact, it does annoy me that the most known pianists/musicians are rarely the great ones. Like lang, kissin, andsnes. They are nothing but a living metronome. But they make a lot of money of it.


----------



## DavidA

Ravndal said:


> As a matter of fact, it does annoy me that the most known pianists/musicians are rarely the great ones. Like lang, kissin, andsnes. They are nothing but a living metronome. But they make a lot of money of it.


But isn't that the same in many areas of life, especially the entertainment industry. But don't forget a man's talent for creating his own hype - that's talent as well.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Glenn Gould 
and anyone making any Soppy sickly sounds, that sort of crap
anysort of Kenny G Background music with an exceptionally narrow range of dynamics (no loud bits). You know it's there but you can't get into it, but you're not allowed to turn it up either
Celine Dion of course
And anything with f&*&*&*ng panpipes!
"Music, which should pulsate with life, needs new means of expression, and science alone can infuse it with youthful vigor."


----------



## Guest

I can safely place this woman near or at the top of the list:






Be sure to check the other pieces besides the one written for her.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Kontrapunctus said:


> I can safely place this woman near or at the top of the list:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to check the other pieces besides the one written for her.


That is disgusting.


----------



## GSchiappe

Ravndal said:


> As a matter of fact, it does annoy me that the most known pianists/musicians are rarely the great ones. Like lang, kissin, andsnes. They are nothing but a living metronome. But they make a lot of money of it.


I must agree on "Bang Bang" and a quite a bit on Andsnes which is too "civilized" most of the time (I don't remember hearing anything louder then a mezzo in his Mozart), but he can show some great musicality, like in his Grieg lyric pieces (no Gilels, of course) and in his encores collection album "Horizon".

I won't comment on Kissin because I'm almost a fan but I will suggest for a (re-)listen of his Tchaikovsky with Karajan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm gonna drop a bomb here: I hate all period instrument performers and period-informed interpretations


----------



## DavidA

After watching 'The sound and the fury' on TV last night, I have decided I cannot stand the avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things. These brutal thugs also killed millions in their purges and there is someone who purports to be a musician saying such things. The sheer tuneless output of these musical freaks is unbelievable. Wagner may have been a so-and-so but at least he did write music that is listenable to!


----------



## Ravndal

GSchiappe said:


> I must agree on "Bang Bang" and a quite a bit on Andsnes which is too "civilized" most of the time (I don't remember hearing anything louder then a mezzo in his Mozart), but he can show some great musicality, like in his Grieg lyric pieces (no Gilels, of course) and in his encores collection album "Horizon".
> 
> I won't comment on Kissin because I'm almost a fan but I will suggest for a (re-)listen of his Tchaikovsky with Karajan.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I'm gonna drop a bomb here: I hate all period instrument performers and period-informed interpretations


Andsnes cant play romantic music. If you want a great pianist interpret music from Grieg, check out Einar Steen-Nøkleberg. He is Norwegian.

And i agree with your statement on period instruments.


----------



## moody

DavidA said:


> After watching 'The sound and the fury' on TV last night, I have decided I cannot stand the avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things. These brutal thugs also killed millions in their purges and there is someone who purports to be a musician saying such things. The sheer tuneless output of these musical freaks is unbelievable. Wagner may have been a so-and-so but at least he did write music that is listenable to!


I hope you realise you're probably in big trouble now !


----------



## moody

drzarkov said:


> I would have to say Kenny G. His Antarctica Symphony left me cold.


Who on earth might Kenny G. be???


----------



## GSchiappe

I'll try to find Einar Steen-Nøkleberg around here, thanks for the recommendation.

----------------------------------------------

I must agree with DavidA on all this liberal ** from progressive musicians of the likes of Boulez and Quasthoff. First when did musicians become experts on politics and social matters? And second, since they're musicians, haven't they learnt anything from Shostakovich?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

moody said:


> I hope you realise you're probably in big trouble now !


"avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things."

Very interesting - what a combo of words, have you ever thought of a career in talk back radio....

Now The sound and the fury- that sounds like my type of TV show, haven't heard of it in OZ. But going by the description above is probably banned by the CIA/ MI6 or someone!


----------



## Mahlerian

DavidA said:


> After watching 'The sound and the fury' on TV last night, I have decided I cannot stand the avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things. These brutal thugs also killed millions in their purges and there is someone who purports to be a musician saying such things. The sheer tuneless output of these musical freaks is unbelievable. Wagner may have been a so-and-so but at least he did write music that is listenable to!


You mean _this_ Wagner???









Tuneless noise, all of it!


----------



## Guest

DavidA said:


> After watching 'The sound and the fury' on TV last night, I have decided I cannot stand the avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things. These brutal thugs also killed millions in their purges and there is someone who purports to be a musician saying such things. The sheer tuneless output of these musical freaks is unbelievable. Wagner may have been a so-and-so but at least he did write music that is listenable to!


Ear Ear...............


----------



## worov

Alfred Brendel said once in an interview (can't remember which one) : _"The piano reperitoire is vast and there is no time to waste on Rachmaninoff"_

I'm not a great fan on Rachmaninoff, but I think this is really insulting to Rachmaninoff's work.

And let us not forget that Brendel found time to record Fur Elise…


----------



## Ravndal

Yes, it is something wrong with Brendel, but it's not anything wrong with Fur Elise.


----------



## Tapkaara

I do not enjoy histrionic conductors, such as Gustavo Dudamel. I think subtle conducting is classier and it allows the music to convey its message and emotion on its own terms without the distraction of having to watch a spastic penguin with a stick.

I suppose conductors do this to suggest that the are semi-deities who have the amazing powers to conjure and control the music like some sort of possessed medium. I can understand their desire to give this dramatic effect, but to me, it looks infinitely silly and self-indulgent. And it does not necessarily do anything for the quality of their interpretation.

One of the best conductors I have ever seen was David Robinson of the (excellent) St. Louis Symphony. He had a very restrained but authoritative style and the music he made was sublime. What is more, because he didn't try to upstage the music, it was much easier to focus on the sounds instead of the sights.

So that is my answer to this question.


----------



## sharik

DavidA said:


> They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things


admiration of Mao's does not make one a leftwinger by default. Boulez is only aware of how much Mao had done for today's China success.


----------



## MichaelSolo

The topic name should have probably been corrected to "Well-known musicians you don't like" - otherwise, the world is full of mediocrity.

To add a little bit of heat to the topic, I would go not about the performers, but the bigger fish. I do not like Elgar. Presuptious and boring. I do not like the "classical" North American composers I heard (that is a handful; probably, not all). I do not like Orf and find many Handel's works uninspired at best.

With a very few and apart exceptions, modern composers did not bring anything new after Shoenberg and Schimanovski.

What else is there to ramble about?..

I feel funny about full-breasted and sneakered performers to the degree I cannot say much of their interpretation; some of the Perelman's performances left me wonder why did he chose classical repertoire but not a Kletzmer band's; period instruments make me want to clear my ears and I often want to put Snt. Martin to the Fields..

Bring it on, now


----------



## moody

MichaelSolo said:


> The topic name should have probably been corrected to "Well-known musicians you don't like" - otherwise, the world is full of mediocrity.
> 
> To add a little bit of heat to the topic, I would go not about the performers, but the bigger fish. I do not like Elgar. Presuptious and boring. I do not like the "classical" North American composers I heard (that is a handful; probably, not all). I do not like Orf and find many Handel's works uninspired at best.
> 
> With a very few and apart exceptions, modern composers did not bring anything new after Shoenberg and Schimanovski.
> 
> What else is there to ramble about?..
> 
> I feel funny about full-breasted and sneakered performers to the degree I cannot say much of their interpretation; some of the Perelman's performances left me wonder why did he chose classical repertoire but not a Kletzmer band's; period instruments make me want to clear my ears and I often want to put Snt. Martin to the Fields..
> 
> Bring it on, now


You certainly are good at rambling and what's so presuptious about Elgar ?


----------



## MichaelSolo

moody said:


> You certainly are good at rambling and what's so presuptious about Elgar ?


Presumptious. His melodies sound to me somewhat boring or rather simple - when he happens to luckily wander onto a better tune. At the same time, he likes large forms and more often than not tries to express elated, grand feelings. Reminds me of porridge. Bland, but liked by many.


----------



## Guest

worov said:


> Alfred Brendel said once in an interview (can't remember which one) : _"The piano reperitoire is vast and there is no time to waste on Rachmaninoff"_
> 
> I'm not a great fan on Rachmaninoff, but I think this is really insulting to Rachmaninoff's work.


Well now, he has a point just on a personal basis I am not over keen on Rachmaninov, I have tried.


----------



## Ravndal

Andante said:


> Well now, he has a point just on a personal basis I am not over keen on Rachmaninov, I have tried.


I find it hard to believe that anyone could dislike Rachmaninoff, but it is possible. So i respect it. I for example can't stand Mozart, clementi or haydn.

But, I'm very curious - what do you think of this piece? Try as hard as you can to not think of Rachmaninoff when you hear it


----------



## worov

Ravndal said:


> I find it hard to believe that anyone could dislike Rachmaninoff, but it is possible. So i respect it. I for example can't stand Mozart, clementi or haydn.
> 
> But, I'm very curious - what do you think of this piece? Try as hard as you can to not think of Rachmaninoff when you hear it


I'm with Andante here, I'm not too keen on Rachmaninoff too. I have a great respect for his work though. He's in the great tradition of late romanticism and in this tradition he's one of the best.

I know very well the Prelude you posted (no surprise, it's one of his most famous pieces). I must say this is exactly the kind of piece that I don't like in Rachmaninoff's work. In his preludes, I prefer opus 23 no 5, opus 32 no 5, opus 32 no 12.


----------



## moody

Ravndal said:


> I find it hard to believe that anyone could dislike Rachmaninoff, but it is possible. So i respect it. I for example can't stand Mozart, clementi or haydn.
> 
> But, I'm very curious - what do you think of this piece? Try as hard as you can to not think of Rachmaninoff when you hear it


I anted to give you a like,but after your Mozart comment I can't really.


----------



## moody

MichaelSolo said:


> Presumptious. His melodies sound to me somewhat boring or rather simple - when he happens to luckily wander onto a better tune. At the same time, he likes large forms and more often than not tries to express elated, grand feelings. Reminds me of porridge. Bland, but liked by many.


Yes,I'm one of them--but at lest you have COAG on your side.


----------



## MichaelSolo

moody said:


> ... you have COAG on your side.


Might I ask who /what COAG is?..


----------



## Novelette

Yep, I'll add my voice to those who don't care for Gould.

Also, Andre Rieu and Sir Simon Rattle.


----------



## MichaelSolo

I also have difficulty to find in general good interpreters of J.S. Bach's clavier works. Gould feels cold and rushed, Richter feels too rational, though not rushed. Most feel just plain gaudy.

Same story about Mozart's Requiem - is it only me who finds in most interpretations it is terribly rushed?.. Like someone's impatient with bringing someone under.


----------



## MaestroViolinist

moody said:


> Yes,I'm one of them--but at lest you have COAG on your side.


Hang on, I thought he liked Elgar's cello concerto now...?


----------



## MaestroViolinist

MichaelSolo said:


> Might I ask who /what COAG is?..


Stay around a bit longer, you'll find out. :lol: CoAG is short for ComposerOfAvantGarde, just to give you a clue...


----------



## MichaelSolo

MaestroViolinist said:


> Stay around a bit longer, you'll find out. :lol: CoAG is short for ComposerOfAvantGarde, just to give you a clue...


Oh my, I feel intimidated already..


----------



## worov

> I also have difficulty to find in general good interpreters of J.S. Bach's clavier works. Gould feels cold and rushed, Richter feels too rational, though not rushed. Most feel just plain gaudy.


Have you listened to Rosalyn Tureck ? Here's some excerpts of Tureck playing Bach's Partita no 1 (BWV 825) :


----------



## worov

And the end of the Partita :


----------



## moody

MichaelSolo said:


> Might I ask who /what COAG is?..


He won't like that .he is under the impression that his fame covers the globe.
It stands for Composer of Avant Garde and he is our captive mini composer.


----------



## moody

MichaelSolo said:


> Might I ask who /what COAG is?..


He won't like that .he is under the impression that his fame covers the globe.
It stands for Composer of Avant Garde and he is our captive mini composer.
Now you know three times.


----------



## moody

MaestroViolinist said:


> Hang on, I thought he liked Elgar's cello concerto now...?


No .just the other day he said he hated hearihg the name.


----------



## Guest

worov said:


> Have you listened to Rosalyn Tureck ? Here's some excerpts of Tureck playing Bach's Partita no 1 (BWV 825) :


Indeed, She is a Fantastic interpreter of JSB I have many of her CD's


Ravndal said:


> I find it hard to believe that anyone could dislike Rachmaninoff, but it is possible. So i respect it. I for example can't stand Mozart, clementi or haydn.
> 
> But, I'm very curious - what do you think of this piece?


Quite honestly I find it ponderous and I am not a lover of WAMY either but I am not saying WAMY and RACHY wrote crap music I just think it is over rated IMO


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> No .just the other day he said he hated hearihg the name.


Pomp and Circumstance March no. 1 is what ruins Elgar for me. The Cello Concerto is rather nice and I do like it, but it doesn't compare to something like the Dvorak concerto.


----------



## DavidA

Ravndal said:


> I find it hard to believe that anyone could dislike Rachmaninoff, but it is possible. So i respect it. I for example can't stand Mozart, clementi or haydn.
> 
> But, I'm very curious - what do you think of this piece? Try as hard as you can to not think of Rachmaninoff when you hear it


I must be a lucky man! I like them all.


----------



## DavidA

I heard the BBC's program series 'The Sound and the Fury' and it certainly reinforced my dislike of Avant garde music. To me it is just a complete racket - the aural equivalent to having your teeth drilled - without local anaesthetic!


----------



## deggial

GSchiappe said:


> I hate all period instrument performers and period-informed interpretations


HIPsters, the lot of them!

(I could never resist a terrible joke :tiphat


----------



## MichaelSolo

Elgar cello concerto: I am sort of OK with it, up until the moment of this r-r-r-rumph -- pum -- pum-pa-pa-pam - thing. Chaikovsky has a similar beginning in his violin concerto, but in his case a drunk russian at least attempts to dance his gopak, while in Elgar's piece it is just an inabriated english peasant morosely stumping his feet against the ground, ever and ever again...

Sorry, this turns me off.


----------



## ahammel

GSchiappe said:


> I'm gonna drop a bomb here: I hate all period instrument performers and period-informed interpretations


So you'd prefer that musicians break out the fortepianos and natural horns for 20th century stuff?


----------



## moody

MichaelSolo said:


> Elgar cello concerto: I am sort of OK with it, up until the moment of this r-r-r-rumph -- pum -- pum-pa-pa-pam - thing. Chaikovsky has a similar beginning in his violin concerto, but in his case a drunk russian at least attempts to dance his gopak, while in Elgar's piece it is just an inabriated english peasant morosely stumping his feet against the ground, ever and ever again...
> 
> Sorry, this turns me off.


Morose is the only thing that should be applied to this work,leave aside your knowledge of English peasants---not many peasants here in 1919.
Ths concerto is one of the cornerstones of the cello repertoire, every cellist of renown has taken it up including Du Pre. Tortellier,Casals,Rostropovich,Maisky, Fournier and Piatigorsky and many of the present young generation.
The thread asked for musicians you disliked,but it's always worth finding out something about your subject before advertising your decision.
Elgar wrote it to represent the angst,despair and disenchantment he felt after WW 1.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

moody said:


> Morose is the only thing that should be applied to this work,leave aside your knowledge of English peasants---not many peasants here in 1919.
> Ths concerto is one of the cornerstones of the cello repertoire, every cellist of renown has taken it up including Du Pre. Tortellier,Casals,Rostropovich,Maisky, Fournier and Piatigorsky and many of the present young generation.
> The thread asked for musicians you disliked,but it's always worth finding out something about your subject before advertising your decision.
> Elgar wrote it to represent the angst,despair and disenchantment he felt after WW 1.


That doesn't necessarily mean it's good... 
I think it's an okay piece if music and I quite like it. I haven't taken the time to sit down with a score and analyse it so I can't say it's a bad piece of music.


----------



## moody

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> That doesn't necessarily mean it's good...
> I think it's an okay piece if music and I quite like it. I haven't taken the time to sit down with a score and analyse it so I can't say it's a bad piece of music.


With respect ,as you are a composer of renown, I think the list of eminent soloists above and the number at this point in time does mean that it is good and in fact,along with the Dvorak, the top 'cello concerto in existance.


----------



## moody

ahammel said:


> So you'd prefer that musicians break out the fortepianos and natural horns for 20th century stuff?


Why not,might make some of it more palatable.


----------



## ptr

Many years ago I heard Robert Levin (of Mozart fame) do a concert on a Walther Fortepiano (replica), first half Mozart sonatas and variations, second half He improvised on Themes given by the audience in the Mozart Style, most gave simple melodies like the Nokia tune and twinkle twinkle, but my friend who has much better aural skills than I have sang him the tone row from Webern's Op 30 Variations, to which Levin smiled and said, "AHA, Webern, this will be fun", and it surely was! At the hands of the right performer HIP is as fun as modern!

So my take is; it is not the instruments or the HIP mind set that is "wrong", but rather the lacking imagination of some of the performers of the HIP movement that sets the limits! 

/ptr


----------



## Mahlerian

ptr said:


> Many years ago I heard Robert Levin (of Mozart fame) do a concert on a Walther Fortepiano (replica), first half Mozart sonatas and variations, second half He improvised on Themes given by the audience in the Mozart Style, most gave simple melodies like the Nokia tune and twinkle twinkle, but my friend who has much better aural skills than I have sang him the tone row from Webern's Op 30 Variations, to which Levin smiled and said, "AHA, Webern, this will be fun", and it surely was! At the hands of the right performer HIP is as fun as modern!
> 
> So my take is; it is not the instruments or the HIP mind set that is "wrong", but rather the lacking imagination of some of the performers of the HIP movement that sets the limits!
> 
> /ptr


I don't know how accurately I could sing a tone row from aural memory! Your friend must have an excellent ear. Granted, the Webern row is...3 transpositions of the same 4-pitch segment, right?


----------



## ptr

Mahlerian said:


> I don't know how accurately I could sing a tone row from aural memory! Your friend must have an excellent ear. Granted, the Webern row is...3 transpositions of the same 4-pitch segment, right?


He's got perfect pitch and an awesome memory (he can hold me to exact things I said or did 30 years ago when we first met)

Here is the sequence from *Wikipedia*:












> The symmetry of Webern's tone row from Variations, Op. 30 About this sound Play (help·info), is apparent from the equivalent, P1=IR1 and R12=I12, and thus reduced number of row forms, two, P and R, plus transpositions. Consisting of three related tetrachords: a and c consisting of two minor seconds and one minor third and b consisting of two minor thirds and one minor second. Notes 4-7 and 6-9 also consist of two minor seconds and one minor third. "The entire series thus consists of two intervals and has the greatest possible unity of series form, interval, motif, and chords."[10]


(I could never describe it correctly in English...)

/ptr


----------



## ahammel

moody said:


> Why not,might make some of it more palatable.


Q: How do you annoy a natural hornist?
A: Tone row.


----------



## RJay

I'm with you all the way on that topic.


DavidA said:


> After watching 'The sound and the fury' on TV last night, I have decided I cannot stand the avant-garde lot with their pseudo-intellectual noise masquerading as music. They had Boulez on last night. What a racket! And his stupid left-wing jabberings saying how he admired Mao's Red Guards for destroying things. These brutal thugs also killed millions in their purges and there is someone who purports to be a musician saying such things. The sheer tuneless output of these musical freaks is unbelievable. Wagner may have been a so-and-so but at least he did write music that is listenable to!


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

moody said:


> Who on earth might Kenny G. be???


Lucky you.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^But if it was not for this - want would you have to complain about?


----------



## OboeKnight

moody said:


> Who on earth might Kenny G. be???











Kenny G. Is definitely the greatest jazz musician of all time.


----------



## moody

OboeKnight said:


> View attachment 15575
> 
> 
> Kenny G. Is definitely the greatest jazz musician of all time.


I'm glad you told me that,I'll make a note for future reference !


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

OboeKnight said:


> View attachment 15575
> 
> 
> Kenny G. Is definitely the greatest jazz musician of all time.


Your a very sick person............. or twisted!


----------



## Delicious Manager

ahammel said:


> Q: How do you annoy a natural hornist?
> A: Tone row.


You may joke, but I know a natural horn player who is so good he could easily play a tone row. The way he can bend notes both with his lips and with the hand in the bell is stunning.


----------



## Delicious Manager

OboeKnight said:


> View attachment 15575
> 
> 
> Kenny G. Is definitely the greatest jazz musician of all time.


I so much hope that this statement was meant as a joke. What Kenny G plays isn't even proper jazz.


----------



## OboeKnight

Delicious Manager said:


> I so much hope that this statement was meant as a joke. What Kenny G plays isn't even proper jazz.


In the words of my band director: "The man couldn't swing if he was hanging from a rope." :lol:


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ptr said:


> (I could never describe it correctly in English...)
> 
> /ptr


Can you describe it in svenska then?


----------



## ptr

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Can you describe it in svenska then?


Don't think that would help, not in any way better than the snippet I borrowed from Wikipe anyway.. 

/ptr


----------



## EricABQ

To be honest, I'm not sure I've come across any professional class musician that I would say I don't like.

Maybe I'm just easily impressed, but if I like a composition, I tend to enjoy any competent performance.

I've definitely heard renditions of certain things that I prefer to other renditions, but I don't think that extends to me not liking the players of the renditions I enjoyed slightly less.


----------



## OboeKnight

There's an oboist, Sarah Francis I believe, that I can't stand. I bought a complete set of Handel's oboe concertos and sonatas and the tone was awful, and terrible articulation. I can't listen to it without getting really angry.


----------



## millionrainbows




----------



## sharik

Harvey said:


> Musicians you don't like


i began to hate Bryn Terfel after i saw him starring in that silly documentary where he wilfully shares in an idiotic attempt to put a sheen of 'brutality' on certain arias.


----------



## cwarchc

Hate is a very strong word, and emotion. It's very negative.
I don't hate any musician, or their music
I might not "get" it. BUT that's me not them


----------



## Kazaman

Barenboim's piano playing is full of excess and makes me want to puke most of the time. I haven't listened to any of his conducting.


----------



## samurai

Kazaman said:


> Barenboim's piano playing is full of excess and makes me want to puke most of the time. I haven't listened to any of his conducting.


How about Lang-Lang then?


----------



## Kazaman

samurai said:


> How about Lang-Lang then?


I don't pay him much mind to be honest.


----------



## MichaelSolo

samurai said:


> How about Lang-Lang then?


Is it, like, long chinese noodles? I like noodles!


----------



## Guest

Kazaman said:


> Barenboim's piano playing is full of excess and makes me want to puke most of the time. I haven't listened to any of his conducting.


Have you heard him accompanying du Pre ??


----------



## Kazaman

Andante said:


> Have you heard him accompanying du Pre ??


No, but I'll have a look; thanks.


----------



## PouBelle

Kazaman said:


> Barenboim's piano playing is full of excess and makes me want to puke most of the time. I haven't listened to any of his conducting.


Not only his piano playing, but also his conducting shows way too big ego ....disgusting indeed.
Lots of musicians and conductors suffer from that ego thing, like ..... "look at ME, ME, ME .... how good I am". Instead of showing some humility. After all they're just a means to an end IMO. 
Too many to name tho, but Lang-Lang is also one of them


----------



## Celesta

I can't stand Barenboim's conducting -- extremely bland regardless of who the composer is. Why he gets so many prestigious orchestra gigs is unfathomable to me.


----------



## Guest

I can't stand (almost) anybody's conducting, but then again you know that most of the work is done in rehearsal. 
Ergo, I agree that Barenboim can be extremely irritating. Ditto Rattle, Karajan ...


----------



## Guest

An example to illustrate my point above (#476) : if you were a soloist in whatever concerto, you might allow yourself a few deviations from what you agreed with the conductor in rehearsal, as the passion takes you. You will not, however, ever risk throwing the orchestra out of synch with your _caprices_.
Ditto the performance of the 'Grand Symphony' : the conductor will have worked out in rehearsals what he/she wants, the rest is 'show'. There is no other way the conductor can suddenly introduce an 'on-the-spot' interpretative change of mind in front of 80+ musicians. It is called 'inertia'. Ergo, all the waving around of the arms is for giving cues (topping and tailing) and satisfying the conceit among music lovers that the conductor has at his fingertips an 'instrument' (of 80+ people) as responsive as a single instrument.


----------



## moody

Reading some of the stuff above it's a wonder that some people bother with music at all .


----------



## Guest

moody said:


> Reading some of the stuff above it's a wonder that some people bother with music at all .


Well said sir! Just a collection of wannabes :clap:


----------



## Trumpetcat

Musicians that believe they're superior just because they happened to play/study music earlier and had protection/advantages. Sorry I'm so "dumb" just because I only started playing music at 10 and seriously wanting to play at 15, didn't grow up in a musical family, and barely got private lessons. When I was little I didn't even know you could do that, although I was fascinated by music, I thought only certain kinds of people could be musicians, but not I. I asked for music lessons for years and never got them. I relied on band and choir, which taught me nothing. I got the practical part down but had to learn the theory later on by myself. But look where I am now even though I started later! I think passion beats talent. Sorry about the long rant sort of thing, I'm done.  Also, those musicians that like to criticize other musicians, when they themselves aren't as capable as them or as deeply interested in the music... that's all I got.


----------



## moody

Trumpetcat said:


> Musicians that believe they're superior just because they happened to play/study music earlier and had protection/advantages. Sorry I'm so "dumb" just because I only started playing music at 10 and seriously wanting to play at 15, didn't grow up in a musical family, and barely got private lessons. When I was little I didn't even know you could do that, although I was fascinated by music, I thought only certain kinds of people could be musicians, but not I. I asked for music lessons for years and never got them. I relied on band and choir, which taught me nothing. I got the practical part down but had to learn the theory later on by myself. But look where I am now even though I started later! I think passion beats talent. Sorry about the long rant sort of thing, I'm done.  Also, those musicians that like to criticize other musicians, when they themselves aren't as capable as them or as deeply interested in the music... that's all I got.


Well,where are you know ?


----------



## Trumpetcat

What are you talking about. Sorry for posting my opinion?


----------



## Trumpetcat

Wait... I meant I'm a relatively good player, that's all. Is that what you were asking?? :/


----------



## moody

Trumpetcat said:


> Wait... I meant I'm a relatively good player, that's all. Is that what you were asking?? :/


You said "Look where I am now" so I wondered what exactly you meant.


----------



## Trumpetcat

Yeah  I meant I was good! Although I'd be better had I not had braces right now.


----------



## maestro57

Andre Rieu - just because.


----------



## Guest

Trumpetcat said:


> Yeah  I meant I was good! Although I'd be better had I not had braces right now.


How do you know you are good???


----------



## musicphotogAnimal

I know people are going to crucify me for this. It's like telling someone that their faith is full of bunk. But I'm sorry, but I just cannot stand Glenn Gould. I bought a couple of his recordings and his bloody humming drove me freakin' nuts! I can understand if humming added to the music, but the damned humming cuts INTO the music and doesn't add anything to the emotion of the piece. 

GLENN...JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND PLAY THE FREAKIN' MUSIC!!! (yeah, I know, he's dead...and he can't re-record the music sans the incessant humming)...which is why I usually tend to gravitate away from his recordings and buy someone else's if I'm looking for a particular piano piece.


----------



## kevink

I dislike lots of atonal music, philosophical ideas music (music more about the idea behind it than the sound), eg. Schoenberg, John Cage. I don't like the music equivalent of 'modern art', like Jackson Pollock, the random toilet with words on it by Duchamp.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I dislike lots of tonal music, the lack of philosophical ideas music is a real turn off....... Mozart- Beethoven- Chopin Yuck!


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

kevink said:


> I dislike lots of atonal music, philosophical ideas music (music more about the idea behind it than the sound), eg. Schoenberg, John Cage. I don't like the music equivalent of 'modern art', like Jackson Pollock, the random toilet with words on it by Duchamp.


Why? 

...........


----------



## moody

kevink said:


> I dislike lots of atonal music, philosophical ideas music (music more about the idea behind it than the sound), eg. Schoenberg, John Cage. I don't like the music equivalent of 'modern art', like Jackson Pollock, the random toilet with words on it by Duchamp.


Just to jog your memory,the question was regarding musicians you dislike.


----------



## moody

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I dislike lots of tonal music, the lack of philosophical ideas music is a real turn off....... Mozart- Beethoven- Chopin Yuck!


Please see above.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Please see below:

Mozart- Beethoven- Chopin Yuck!


----------



## moody

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Please see below:
> 
> Mozart- Beethoven- Chopin Yuck!


They are composers.


----------



## Mahlerian

kevink said:


> I dislike lots of atonal music, philosophical ideas music (music more about the idea behind it than the sound), eg. Schoenberg, John Cage. I don't like the music equivalent of 'modern art', like Jackson Pollock, the random toilet with words on it by Duchamp.


In what ways is Schoenberg comparable to Pollock (or Duchamp)? Please be extremely specific, given that you know enough about this subject to be able to form a blanket opinion on it.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

moody said:


> They are composers.


However Musians also - so Yuck still stands!


----------



## apricissimus

kevink said:


> I dislike lots of atonal music, philosophical ideas music *(music more about the idea behind it than the sound)*, eg. Schoenberg, John Cage. I don't like the music equivalent of 'modern art', like Jackson Pollock, the random toilet with words on it by Duchamp.


I would suggest that even "traditional" music is like this too, though maybe just in contexts you're more familiar with.


----------



## Garlic

John Cage's music is _entirely_ about the sound.


----------



## bigshot

No ideas behind it to be sure.


----------



## moody

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> However Musians also - so Yuck still stands!


There is a similar thread for composers you don't like.


----------



## Bas

Cecilia Bartolli.

Because of the hype surrounding her. A good friend of mine bought the latest cd "mission" and it was badly recorded, only her much too 'in your face' sound with the instuments pushed too the background. Not at all had it anything to do with the era of the music. And everybody writes about it as if it is some kind of wonder. Yech


----------



## KateSmith

The first place takes Richard Clayderman!


----------



## moody

KateSmith said:


> The first place takes Richard Clayderman!


He already has,see post No. 1.


----------



## rarevinyllibrary

So easy to rant about PUCCINI or whatever mainstream sub classical keyboard top seller....


----------



## DavidA

Garlic said:


> John Cage's music is _entirely_ about the sound.


Or lack of it! .


----------



## Vaneyes

Bas said:


> Cecilia Bartolli.
> 
> Because of the hype surrounding her. A good friend of mine bought the latest cd "mission" and it was badly recorded, only her much too 'in your face' sound with the instuments pushed too the background. Not at all had it anything to do with the era of the music. And everybody writes about it as if it is some kind of wonder. Yech


I have problems with most of her later career theme albums, too. I suggest trying early ones, such as Rossini and Mozart.

I've seen CB in concert three times (pre theme albums), and she was delightful in performance and stage presence. :tiphat:


----------



## JCarmel

I enjoyed her earlier recordings & performances, too...but now the hype & nonsense around her semi-Divine-ness is a pain in the baroque Bits. 
I *really* dislike all over-the-top-Fan-style worship....nothing is ever-so warranted or deserved. We are as we are & nobody deserves Idol-worship. Such artists should just be thankful of a wonderful talent & the chance to be able to entertain others on a profoundly-meaningful level. 
Wouldn't you just _love_ to be able to sit down at the piano or stand in a Recital hall & play or sing the masterpieces of music, utilising all your gifts to a satisfying degree of competence....I know I would & I wouldn't want the adulation that some artists routinely seem to devour for doing-so?!


----------



## Schumann

Schoenberg and Satie are my least favorites at this time.


----------



## ShropshireMoose

Lang Lang, for his posturings and posings at the piano, and for nearly causing me to crash the car with the most astonishingly inept performance of Chopin's B Minor Sonata I've ever heard. Someone once said to me, "I bet you wish you could play the piano like him!!" My reply was, "No, I wish I had his manual dexterity, but if I did I most certainly would NOT play the piano like him."
Martyn Brabbins for managing to make Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances sound dull and boring at a concert I attended (now that really does take some doing).
Olli Mustonen- never, never, NEVER have I heard such an awful performance of the Brahms D Minor Concerto. At some points he raised his hands so high from the keyboard that he couldn't get them back onto it quickly enough. I've never heard such appalling phrasing.
Mario Venzago for ruining Schumann's 4th Symphony, particularly the last movement, in which he inserted pauses, rits, and all manner of odd things, breaking up the line and killing the flow of the music. And the programme said he was regarded as a Schumann expert, oh ye gods but I could weep.
Philip Dyson for continually ruining the music of Billy Mayerl, and the BBC for seeming to think that because he bills himself as some kind of authority on it, that he really is.


----------



## deggial

JCarmel said:


> We are as we are & nobody deserves Idol-worship. Such artists should just be thankful of a wonderful talent & the chance to be able to entertain others on a profoundly-meaningful level.


very true that there is a large degree of chance that certain people make it to the top of their profession. There are lots of people who are also talented and put much hard work into it but for any number of reasons, sometimes quite outside of their hands, don't reach the top. On the other hand, when somebody does something you really like you're inclined to lavish a lot of praise on them. Just don't pay too much attention to rabid fans


----------



## Cocolinmichela

Do you think Bocelli is mediocre and out of tune? Just wondered, I mean, I can think of better tenors than him but he is not THAT bad, is he?


----------



## Cocolinmichela

I thought Sinopoli conducted some of the best Mahler symphonies I heard...


----------



## Cocolinmichela

I hear such comment quite often!1 I wonder how much of his is passion and how much is showmanship...


----------



## Cocolinmichela

One credit to Andre Rieu is that he really gets people together and brings music to the masses (I deliberately left the "classical" word out because i know people argue his interpretation of classical works is well, not classical enough!), though I dont particularly like him either...


----------



## Cocolinmichela

I agree on that, the best Dvorak cello concerto I heard is Julian Lloyd Webber's (after Rostropovich's), there are clips of his recording of the concerto on You Tube and considering he was getting rid of a flu (not cold, flu) at the time, I think the recording is fantastic. Wonder what it would have sounded like if he was not unwell?


----------



## Cocolinmichela

Best Shostakovich cello n1 I heard is with Julian Lloyd Webber, someone put it on You Tube. Fantastic playing!!


----------



## Cocolinmichela

I like the fact that she doesn't need to sell her image to sell her music. She is just herself. Great woman.


----------



## Cocolinmichela

I agree, my first classical CD purchase in the late '80s was her recording of Mozart violin concertos with Karajian! She was 13, I think. Still my favourite interpretation of Mozart violin concertos. Also love her "Romance" by Beethoven.


----------



## Crystal

Harvey said:


> I'll start with...Richard Clayderman.
> 
> And now I have to back it up...Okay, I've read somewhere that he brought piano playing to the masses, and some people learned to play the piano by listening to Clayderman. Well that's all good...until you start looking for some music. I find his style too monotonous, repetitive, boring, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................Hey. Nothing wrong with playing Gounod in sixths, changing the rhythm, and adding some percussion, _but if you play the first four measures over and over and over again, it's gonna annoy people._


Agree. Sooooo boring....and so does Yiruma.  zzzzzzzzzzzz........


----------



## Pugg

Crystal said:


> Agree. Sooooo boring....and so does Yiruma.  zzzzzzzzzzzz........


Perhaps OP thinks different now, after all topic started in s 2005


----------



## bestellen

I just don't like today's music too much. There are exceptions but very few.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

anyone who does better music than me,........mmmmmmmmm that would be quite a few


----------



## DavidA

Cocolinmichela said:


> One credit to Andre Rieu is that he really gets people together and brings music to the masses (I deliberately left the "classical" word out because i know people argue his interpretation of classical works is well, not classical enough!), though I dont particularly like him either...


I certainly wouldn't walk across the street to hear Andre Rieu but lots of people enjoy what he does so good luck to him. He employs musicians who might otherwise be out of a job and brings pleasure to thousands. That is the chief purpose of music - to bring pleasure to people. (Unless you're one of the hair shirt brigade, btw) Of course, some people will hate him because he is successful but that is the tall poppy syndrome.


----------



## Judith

Nigel Kennedy. Don't like him as a person and when I heard two movements of the Four Seasons by him, sounded like he had a train to catch he was so fast.


----------



## Merl

Judith said:


> Nigel Kennedy. Don't like him as a person and when I heard two movements of the Four Seasons by him, sounded like he had a train to catch he was so fast.


Whilst Kennedy has recorded some utter rubbish, and he does talk a lot of pish, he has also put out some discs of merit. The 'Duos for Violin and Cello (with Lynn Harrell) is lovely. He is a pratt, though.


----------



## gustavdimitri

I utterly dislike Klemperer at later age... he had become a moloch...


----------



## gustavdimitri

One I also have become to dislike utterly is Valery Gergiev...










First of all because of the fact he openly called homosexuality a disease, and that they are inferior people... hmmm

Second...

And what's with that little stick? eh?
No a big









I cannot even listen to his recordings anymore...


----------



## Judith

gustavdimitri said:


> One I also have become to dislike utterly is Valery Gergiev...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all because of the fact he openly called homosexuality a disease, and that they are inferior people... hmmm
> 
> Second...
> 
> And what's with that little stick? eh?
> No a big
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot even listen to his recordings anymore...


He is also very scruffy and looks like he hasn't washed for weeks.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

I believe Christian Thielemann has been known to make statements which suggest that his politics may be, in Private Eye's phrase, "not unadjacent to" antiSemitism, which would certainly not endear him to me, though as it happens I'm not the world's greatest fan of his actual musicmaking either.


----------



## philoctetes

I've been underwhelmed by Aimard, either live (twice) or on recordings. He may be the best for the Ligeti etudes, but not much beyond that. I don't dislike him, just think he's very overrated.


----------



## Mazeppa

matt78 said:


> Another musician I can't get on with is Ivo Pogorelich because he takes far too many liberties and imposes himself on the music to the point of suffocation.


I agree that Pogorelich does tend to add his own personal _spin _ on certain pieces, but his interpretations of some of Haydn's piano sonatas are - in my opnion - some of the most on the mark, and objective I've heard.

I suggest listening to his 1992 Deutsche Grammophon recording of Nos. 19 & 46, as well as his performance of No. 31.

Perhaps I'm wrong, though...


----------



## gustavdimitri

I do not like her also... Anne Sophie Mutter ... way too slick and Karajanesque ...


----------



## Janspe

gustavdimitri said:


> I do not like her also... Anne Sophie Mutter ... way too slick and Karajanesque ...


There's much to admire about her besides her playing style, though! Just think of all the new pieces that she has either received or commissioned, and then championed throughout her career. Lutosławski's _Chain 2_ and (the orchestrated version of) the _Partita_, Dutilleux' _Sur le même accord_, Gubaidulina's _In tempus praesens_, Rihm's _Gesungene Zeit_... The list goes on and on. She's a fantastic force of nature in the world of contemporary violin repertoire!


----------



## Guest

Lang Lang... cannot bear to see how enraptured he becomes with his own playing...


----------



## Larkenfield

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Lang Lang... cannot bear to see how enraptured he becomes with his own playing...


Beautiful performance. But then, we can't have an artist blissed out and enjoying himself like he's on top of the world, can we? By the sound of the applause, the audience was enraptured and this work requires great control and restraint to play well and not step all over it. The MTV editing can be highly distracting and make the performance seem far more lightweight and superficial than it is, rather than if one simply closes one's eyes and realizes that this is lovely and beautiful performance-and there's a hell of a big difference between his being full of himself and enjoying himself. What sour listeners some of these renowned artists have to put up with from their demanding critics!


----------



## KenOC

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Lang Lang... cannot bear to see how enraptured he becomes with his own playing...


Does what he _looks _like matter? Check out the many clips of the aging Rudolf Serkin on YouTube -- he looks like he's having a heart attack, stroke and nervous breakdown all at the same time. But he _sounds _pretty darned good!


----------



## Becca

I know that many concert-goers want to sit on the keyboard side of the auditorium when there is a piano soloist .. so do I - not to see their hands but to avoid seeing their faces!


----------



## Polyphemus

gustavdimitri said:


> And what's with that little stick? eh?
> 
> I think thats called an 'affectation'


----------



## Guest

KenOC said:


> Does what he _looks _like matter? Check out the many clips of the aging Rudolf Serkin on YouTube -- he looks like he's having a heart attack, stroke and nervous breakdown all at the same time. But he _sounds _pretty darned good!


It does to me and doesn't to you... fair enough... to each his own, eh?

To be quite honest...If I were any more shallow and superficial you would be able to see my skeletal structure without the use of x-rays and so yes, looks do matter to me...

That's why I think that Janine Jansen is a better fiddler than David Oistrakh and why Nicola Benedetti is a better fiddler than Nathan Milstein and why Leila Josefowicz is a better fiddler than Itzhak Perlman and why Anne-Sophie Mutter is a better fiddler than Yehudi Menuhin...

I'll take "looks" over "talent" every day of the week because everyone (and by "everyone" I primarily mean "me") knows that "talent" is fleeting but "looks" remain forever...:cheers:


----------



## Guest

Janspe said:


> There's much to admire about her besides her playing style, though! Just think of all the new pieces that she has either received or commissioned, and then championed throughout her career. Lutosławski's _Chain 2_ and (the orchestrated version of) the _Partita_, Dutilleux' _Sur le même accord_, Gubaidulina's _In tempus praesens_, Rihm's _Gesungene Zeit_... The list goes on and on. She's a fantastic force of nature in the world of contemporary violin repertoire!


Well said... my compliments!


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## Josquin13

I strongly agree with Mazeppa concerning Ivo Pogorelich's brilliant Haydn. He makes Hamelin & others sound boring in Haydn. Pogorelich's recording of Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit and Prokofiev's 6th Piano Sonata shouldn't be easily dismissed either. Though of course I understand people's reservations about him (as I too have heard him in concert slow down to the point where the music almost seemed to come to a stop), I just don't always agree. (I also enjoy the verve of Pogo's Scarlatti, Bach, and brilliant Schumann Toccata, as well.)

When I first began collecting LPs, an older, seasoned collector advised me, "You can almost always do better than Karajan." I have found that advice more and more true as I've gotten older. In fact, today, even the recordings that I once liked by Karajan have begun to pale in comparison to others (such as his Debussy). I also think that the 'one size fits all' velvety thick, overly homogenous string sound Karajan cultivated in his Berlin Orchestra may seduce many listeners, but it badly obscures vital parts of scores, even in Bruckner & Wagner, which is the last bastion of my Karajan collection (& doesn't work in pre-romantic era music). 

I'm also not a big fan of violinist Isaac Stern, who in his later years didn't practice enough (musicians I knew used to complain about him).

Nor am I so keen on conductor Giuseppi Sinopoli's last years at the helm of one of my favorite orchestras in the world (at least, prior to Sinopoli's arrival), the Staatskapelle Dresden.


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## Guest

gustavdimitri said:


> One I also have become to dislike utterly is Valery Gergiev...
> 
> And what's with that little stick? eh?


When I saw that "eh?" I nearly fainted from excitement at the thought that I was no longer the forum's lone Canadian (apparently... the rest may actually be hiding their location) but then I glanced under your username I saw "The Netherlands" as your location (which is cool - Janine Jansen is Dutch and so is Pugg and I like them both!)...

Regarding the "little stick" - In English we call it a "toothpick"... in Dutch it's "tandenstoker"... The photo you're using was taken during rehearsals after a lunch break and he must have had something stuck in his teeth (probably barbeque ribs - he's well known for searching out rib joints in each city he conducts in which explains why he spends so much time in Kansas City, St. Louis, and Memphis) and using an actual properly sized baton seems somewhat impractical thus the use of the "tandenstoker"...

I would probably try to learn Dutch if it wasn't for the fact that you apparently have a different word in Dutch for every word that we have in English... If say three-quarters of Dutch words were actually "English" and only one quarter was "Dutch" I would reckon that eventually I would be somewhat fluent enough to order a cup of tea or coffee or a hooker although to be quite honest I may be flattering myself (which is actually one of my least admired qualities but that doesn't stop me)...

Nice combination of anger and humour - my compliments (seriously)... I'm quite good at anger (I like to bill myself as the forum's most easily provoked member) and I'm even better at humour but I haven't found a way to combine the two in a way that doesn't result in a rather severe scolding from everyone else on the forum... Best wishes...


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## Vtran

I detest Lang Lang. Langberace? Just to be fair, give Liberace some credit here. Liberace was a better pianist and much more musical than Lang Lang.


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## Star

Vtran said:


> I detest Lang Lang. Langberace? Just to be fair, give Liberace some credit here. Liberace was a better pianist and much more musical than Lang Lang.


I just wonder where all this is detestation for Lang Lang comes from. Seems a fairly OK dude to me. You think it wrong he's popularising classical music? or is it because we hate success and wish it was us? If course, you are welcome not to like his playing. But detest him as a person? What's he ever done to you?


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## Guest

Star said:


> I just wonder where all this is detestation for Lang Lang comes from. Seems a fairly OK dude to me. You think it wrong he's popularising classical music? or is it because we hate success and wish it was us? If course, you are welcome not to like his playing. But detest him as a person? What's he ever done to you?


I don't detest him, but his interpretations lack nuance and depth to me, and I could do without his orgiastic faces.


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## Dim7

Another thread that already has hit its teens....


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## Triplets

Mariss Jansons, anyone? I don't exactly hate him, but for a Conductor that has been as blessed as he to lead some incredible Orchestras, the number of truly memorable recordings that he has made is is paltry..I can't think of a single one. I particularly dislike his Mahler, as he seems to get lost amongst the trees. He has his fans, though, so I suppose it must be me


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## Becca

Kontrapunctus said:


> I don't detest him, but his interpretations lack nuance and depth to me, and I could do without his orgiastic faces.


Many people want to sit on the side of the concert hall that allows them to see the pianists hands but I prefer that side so that I don't have to watch their face!


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## Becca

Triplets said:


> Mariss Jansons, anyone? I don't exactly hate him, but for a Conductor that has been as blessed as he to lead some incredible Orchestras, the number of truly memorable recordings that he has made is is paltry..I can't think of a single one. I particularly dislike his Mahler, as he seems to get lost amongst the trees. He has his fans, though, so I suppose it must be me


I also find him a bit bland although his Tchaikovsky symphonies with the Oslo Philharmonic was very good.


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## hpowders

I hate Fergie for singing the American National Anthem as if it was Marilyn Monroe’s Happy Birthday Mr. President which Ms. Monroe sang quite sexily to President JFK.

Completely inappropriate, Fergie!


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## Merl

hpowders said:


> I hate Fergie for singing the American National Anthem as if it was Marilyn Monroe's Happy Birthday Mr. President which Ms. Monroe sang quite sexily to President JFK.
> 
> Completely inappropriate, Fergie!


Hilarious to watch though. Its the players faces that make it for me. Especially the close-up of that guy trying to sing along. Loved it when he gave up and just started laughing.


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## Merl

I don't hate Maisky's recordings (or dislike him as an artist) but many of his cello rubato-fests leave me cold. Its a shame as he is a terrific musician but I find it hard to digest many of his recordings. He's done a few very good discs but the majority of his back-catalogue infuriates me, sounding like one long whiny cello noise. His last recording of Bach's cello suites made me feel nauseous (yet I liked his first). Anyone else feel like this or is it just me?


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## Rogerx

Judith said:


> Nigel Kennedy. Don't like him as a person and when I heard two movements of the Four Seasons by him, sounded like he had a train to catch he was so fast.


He was on "speed":lol:


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## millionrainbows

G.G. Allin, Kenny G., Alfred Brendel's eyebrows, Daniel Barenboim's face...


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## Guest

Merl said:


> I don't hate Maisky's recordings (or dislike him as an artist) but many of his cello *rubato-fests* leave me cold. Its a shame as he is a terrific musician but I find it hard to digest many of his recordings. He's done a few very good discs but the majority of his back-catalogue infuriates me, sounding like one long whiny cello noise. *His last recording of Bach's cello suites made me feel nauseous (yet I liked his first). Anyone else feel like this or is it just me?*


Fully agree with you for both points. His technique is enviable but he really does "over-Rostropovitch" everything!


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## DavidA

Just reading through this with amusement as people vent their spleen about artists you don’t like. 

One piece of advice: if you don’t like an artist don’t listen to them. No one is making you! :lol:


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## mmsbls

Please refrain from commenting negatively about other members. We've removed several posts.


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## Red Terror

Vtran said:


> I detest Lang Lang. Langberace? Just to be fair, give Liberace some credit here. Liberace was a better pianist and much more musical than Lang Lang.


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## weissnixmehr

Leporello87 said:


> Richard Stoltzman.


Why him? He was member of the TASHI quartet and a very good friend to Peter Serkin.

I agree with everyone who doesn't like Richard Clayderman.


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## Sad Al

Merl said:


> I don't hate Maisky's recordings (or dislike him as an artist) but many of his cello rubato-fests leave me cold. Its a shame as he is a terrific musician but I find it hard to digest many of his recordings. He's done a few very good discs but the majority of his back-catalogue infuriates me, sounding like one long whiny cello noise. His last recording of Bach's cello suites made me feel nauseous (yet I liked his first). Anyone else feel like this or is it just me?


Maisky's last recording of Bach's cello suites sounds quite nice to me. His instrument sounds wonderful and that DG recording sounds like DG sounds at its best. Doesn't Maisky sound much better than Casals? What's not to like? What exactly is the right way to play Bach's cello suites?


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## Tero

very few real dislikes. Ofra Harnoy on cello. Went with obnoxious CD covers. And even that, it was not her fault. Still, as an artist, I would have banned all those covers.


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## Sad Al

Classical music is so unpopular that I like all of them. Most people hate classical music and like Roger Federer


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## Barelytenor

Valery Gergiev. Enough with the floaty fingers! They mean nothing and yet are constantly in motion, distracting from the music. Sort of a Bernie Sanders in training.

Stop It!


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## Bulldog

Sad Al said:


> Maisky's last recording of Bach's cello suites sounds quite nice to me. His instrument sounds wonderful and that DG recording sounds like DG sounds at its best. Doesn't Maisky sound much better than Casals? What's not to like? What exactly is the right way to play Bach's cello suites?


There isn't a right way to play them, but I dislike Maisky's romanticized approach.


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## Guest

those who show off


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## premont

Sad Al said:


> Maisky's last recording of Bach's cello suites sounds quite nice to me. His instrument sounds wonderful and that DG recording sounds like DG sounds at its best. Doesn't Maisky sound much better than Casals? What's not to like? What exactly is the right way to play Bach's cello suites?


I have only heard a little part of Maisky's first recording, that was enough for me.

The title of the dances should be fairly indicative of the intended tempi. We also know that vibrato wasn't used in that uninhibited way Maisky does, and overdone dynamic variation made possible by modern instruments should not be applied. But concerning rubato as well as nothing is known, so here is room for the players taste, which may be different from ours. As to Maisky it is first and foremost his continual and rather excessive rubato I do not stand.


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## Flamme

Umm andre rieu? Off top of my head


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## Dorsetmike

Flamme said:


> Umm andre rieu? Off top of my head


Seconded

Also Albrecht Mayer for the way he ruins some wel known vocal works


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## Marc

Ha, this topic begins with Richard Clayderman.
He's the one who inspired my nephew to appreciate classical music more.

And, so far, the last posts were about André Rieu.
He's the one who at least manages/managed to serve some classical music to colleagues and many other people who would otherwise never have cared for it, because they thought it was only for snobs and/or upperclass twits. And, in general, Rieu doesn't ruin most of the pieces in some Waldo de los Rios-style.

I guess I'm not that much into the non-liking game. 

On the other hand, in a certain way, I envy all those darn musicians, because they are able to do something that I don't have the talent for. So yeah, let's say that I don't like ANY of them, out of plain jealousy. Lucky [email protected]@rds and [email protected]@rdines, all of them.

:devil:


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## Rogerx

ClasiCompose said:


> those who show off


Interesting, enlighten us please.


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## DavidA

Marc said:


> Ha, this topic begins with Richard Clayderman.
> He's the one who inspired my nephew to appreciate classical music more.
> 
> And, so far, the last posts were about André Rieu.
> He's the one who at least manages/managed to serve some classical music to colleagues and many other people who would otherwise never have cared for it, because they thought it was only for snobs and/or upperclass twits. And, in general, Rieu doesn't ruin most of the pieces in some Waldo de los Rios-style.
> 
> I guess I'm not that much into the non-liking game.
> 
> On the other hand, in a certain way, I envy all those darn musicians, because they are able to do something that I don't have the talent for. So yeah, let's say that I don't like ANY of them, out of plain jealousy. Lucky [email protected]@rds and [email protected]@rdines, all of them.
> 
> :devil:


I am very happy with skilled musicians making music people enjoy whether I enjoy it or not. I don't listen to Rieu or Clayderman but if people enjoy them all well and good. They are employing musicians and giving people enjoyment


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## Sad Al

premont said:


> I have only heard a little part of Maisky's first recording, that was enough for me.
> 
> The title of the dances should be fairly indicative of the intended tempi. We also know that vibrato wasn't used in that uninhibited way Maisky does, and overdone dynamic variation made possible by modern instruments should not be applied. But concerning rubato as well as nothing is known, so here is room for the players taste, which may be different from ours. As to Maisky it is first and foremost his continual and rather excessive rubato I do not stand.


Well, I like Helmut Walcha too and he didn't have any rubato. At least that is my puny understanding. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between Clockwork Orange and Agent Orange.


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## perdido34

Lang Lang is at the top of my list of musicians I dislike, but I did hear him in a wonderful performance of Strauss Burleske with the Cleveland Orchestra. This music kept him busy enough that he had little time to make faces and gestures for the audience. This was unfortunately what happened earlier in the concert when he played Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise.

Over the years, I've come to find Glenn Gould's eccentric performances and musical point-making to be so distracting that I rarely listen to his recordings. I don't mind the humming...

Currentzis is #3 on my list.


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## Leo1277

Somebody said Clayderman - I don't like him at all, but he is not really a classical pianist in my opinion, but a showman. Along these lines, an American icon, Liberace I also don't like at all for similar reasons, although at least his technique was better than Clayderman. 

But, some here may not agree with me, I also don't like Horowitz, who is of course a serious pianist. How do the Germans say provokingly: Horowitz is at the same time "Horror" and "Witz" (German for Joke). Now that's of course an insult, but for my taste he is just too flashy and showmanlike.


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## marlow

Leo1277 said:


> Somebody said Clayderman - I don't like him at all, but he is not really a classical pianist in my opinion, but a showman. Along these lines, an American icon, Liberace I also don't like at all for similar reasons, although at least his technique was better than Clayderman.
> 
> But, some here may not agree with me, I also don't like Horowitz, who is of course a serious pianist. How do the Germans say provokingly: Horowitz is at the same time "Horror" and "Witz" (German for Joke). Now that's of course an insult, but for my taste he is just too flashy and showmanlike.


I don't know whether you ever saw Horowitz perform but the last thing you can say about him was that he was flashy and showman like in his performance. He just sat rock still at the piano and let his fingers do the talking. I just wonder if you know what you're talking about when you say these things.


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## Leo1277

Marc said:


> Ha, this topic begins with Richard Clayderman.
> He's the one who inspired my nephew to appreciate classical music more.
> 
> And, so far, the last posts were about André Rieu.
> ...


Sure, both of these expose some folks to classical music who wouldn't otherwise hear it. They can also sometimes spark some interest, and hat's probably a good thing. And for example at a New Year's Eve party, where your thoughts and attention are elsewhere and your mood is anyway lifted by champagne and conversation, they may also serve a purpose.

That "providing exposure" is a bit like parents reading to their kids... they wouldn't pick up a book on their own unless some role model shows them there's use in there. But when they are in this early phase, they are first given Dr. Seuss before attempting War and Peace


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## Leo1277

Another one that comes to mind is Rondo Veneziano. They again may serve a purpose in life, but just play Vivaldi the way he wants his stuff to be played.


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## Leo1277

marlow said:


> I don't know whether you ever saw Horowitz perform but the last thing you can say about him was that he was flashy and showman like in his performance. He just sat rock still at the piano and let his fingers do the talking. I just wonder if you know what you're talking about when you say these things.


Well, let's hope I know what I am talking about, so let me try some more. First, by the time I could have afforded it, the Maestro was gone, so unfortunately no, I never saw him live. Sometimes I wish I was born 50 years earlier just to have been able to see all the many great pianists and conductors of the last century.

Yes, you are right, he usually sits very still. However, I dare to say that that's part of the act. Look for "SCHUBERT - Impromptu n°3 (Horowitz)" on YouTube (I think I am too junior on this forum to post links here). Now watch it with the sound off. His extreme economy of movement has a certain magic to it, it creates an atmosphere like a high priest performing an important ritual. Anybody can observe and get that, whether they like or understand Schubert or not. On the other hand, when you listen to his music without seeing him, then, in my opinion, that piece loses its somewhat demonic content and rather thrives off what I think is too much rubato and almost Liszt-like crescendi, which are too much for Schubert.

Another interesting thing is to watch this YouTube video: "Vladimir Horowitz having fun with his piano at home (1985)". Other than his wife Wanda Toscanini watching all he does rather critically, sometimes rolling her eyes, like a mom who is about to scold the kid, I just think he isn't serious enough as a person. He asks "Can I play a march now?" And Wanda jumps in immediately and says "No, no", but then he goes off attempting "Stars and Stripes forever" anyway, with a very shallow face and lots of mistakes to boot. (About that part Wanda's disapproval is appropriate in my opinion). Then he says "I can do very good things" and then a bit later "I know all the music. I can play all four [Chopin] scherzi, I can play anything." Well, any serious professional classical pianist needs to have the four Chopin scherzi memorized. But most would refrain from saying "I can play anything" or "I know all the music".

So overall, in my opinion, there really isn't all that much depth, but an atmosphere of something important happening, and excellent marketing to re-cast his periods of depression and self-doubt when he didn't play at all publicly as creative breaks of the genius, who is now triumphantly returning after his monk-style spiritual retreat.

Anyway, he always has been a polarizing performer, some like him and some don't, I just belong into that second category.


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