# Music & Cliques



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What does the crowd a certain music attracts say about the nature of the music itself? Anything? This thread is going on the assumption that no music is more intelligent than another, and it's all about the fan of a work and what they do with the information it gives them that makes all the difference.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

we then first have to make everyone realise that art is an ideology in the service of politics they use to create this or that new reality with its masterpieces to serve not only the shaping of a world being created but also that of the worlds to come.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> we then first have to make everyone realise that art is an ideology in the service of politics they use to create this or that new reality with its masterpieces to serve not only the shaping of a world being created but also that of the worlds to come.


Where do you get this from Zhdanov? Not following you.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

janxharris said:


> Where do you get this from Zhdanov? Not following you.


from the music. Haydn, Mozart, Beeethoven. Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Wagner. Strauss, Stravinsky, Shostakovich. Prokofiev, Myaskovsky, Khachaturian.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

janxharris said:


> Where do you get this from Zhdanov? Not following you.


From his own head.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> From his own head.


no, i already said, its from the music.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What does the crowd a certain music attracts say about the nature of the music itself? Anything? This thread is going on the assumption that no music is more intelligent than another, and it's all about the fan of a work and what they do with the information it gives them that makes all the difference.


I try not to worry about which kind of person or people likes the same things that I like. On a sociological level though it surely says things about class status/aspiration and education received


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

i for one do worry about those who don't like Wagner and operas in general.

they live there lives in vain.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I once was in the same location as Christian Wolff, but was way too shy to ask the question I often wondered about: Can abstract (i.e. non-vocal) music ever really be political?


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

MarkW said:


> Can abstract (i.e. non-vocal) music ever really be political?


yes, it can, for music came from opera, and symphony comes from operatic overtures.

on to an example. Mozart 41 symph 'Jupiter' that begins with orchestra portrays a fist raised to the skies, as if in challenge to Heavenly powers, supported by the timpani, representing a shot from a cannon... the music develops then as themes alternating between describing violent attacks on gods, fears of the consequences, prayers to stop it, and diplomatic attempts to solve the conflict:


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> no, i already said, its from the music.


I still have no understanding of what you were trying to say. None at all. It's probably my bad.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_What does the crowd a certain music attracts say about the nature of the music itself? _

If by cliques you mean groups there was le six in Frances and the mighty five in Russia. Their music in both cases sounded very much alike.

If you are talking about individuals and their attraction to music it is more difficult to say. I like woodwind music but never played one or knew anyone that did same.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

janxharris said:


> I still have no understanding of what you were trying to say.


can you put your finger on what exactly you don't get? what's the problem?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> can you put your finger on what exactly you don't get? what's the problem?


All of this:

we then first have to make everyone realise that art is an ideology in the service of politics they use to create this or that new reality with its masterpieces to serve not only the shaping of a world being created but also that of the worlds to come.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think taste in music says more about lifestyle than anything else.

And also, some music has more to offer to a fan that listens with a more focused mind.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

There could be people that use their mind in other fields than Art, and don't look for mind focused Art. And thus, they associate with a style of Art (music) that tends to appeal to people with less depth.

On the other hand, there could also be people that listen to higher end Art (more sophisticated) but don't listen with a close ear and it just fades into the background.

But more sophisticated music (Jazz/Classical) definitely has more to offer to the fan that listens with a closer ear than any other genre. I think that's a fact.


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