# Are orchestras today playing louder than in the past?



## Bogdan (Sep 12, 2014)

I was at a concert last night in Toronto where Mahler's first was played. It seemed to me as if the volume was turned up: pianissimos were not particularly quiet, fortissimos were through the roof. Some of the musicians were strategically deploying earplugs when loud sections would come up, and of course there are the plexi screens in front of the brass section (which, incidentally, will blow the sound back into their face), and this is not the only concert instance where I noticed this. From my recollections attending concerts in the late 70's and 80s, it was not quite as loud as today. Pianissimos were really quiet and the audience were trying not to shift around during those passages. And no plexi screens or earplugs in sight.

So what do you think, has the volume really been turned up compared to 40-50 years ago?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't think so - the loudness we perceive at a live concert is complex. How close were you? How centered in the row was the seat? How close to the focal point of the sound image were you sitting? What materials are in the orchestra shell? What materials are in the audience section? And so on. An orchestra can play full blast in London's Royal Albert Hall and barely make a dent, while that same orchestra at the same volume in LA's Disney Hall would be unbearable. Acoustics is a tricky and mysterious subject.

You didn't see ear plugs or protection on stage decades ago; that came about when people got smarter about the permanent damage their ears had suffered. OSHA rules applied to music, too. I remember wearing my ear muffs that I used for shooting my shotgun at a concert where I played the anvil for a Verdi excerpt. People nearby - mostly violinists - were complaining about how loud it was. They also came in handy when playing the cannon part in 1812 or firing the pistol on Slaughter on Tenth Avenue. That was loud.

But nowadays you see earplugs all over the stage and it's not necessarily a good thing. The head tones you hear are not remotely related to what the real sound is. Balancing with others is nearly impossible and even tuning become suspect. A lot of the problems could be lessened if conductors would position players differently - no one wants to sit right in front of a trumpet or snare drum.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Offhand I'd say yes.

The instruments you'd find in an orchestra today (as well as the size of orchestras today) have changed.

Some instruments from the Baroque and even the Classical eras have been replaced by louder instruments, and even instruments that remain have been re-engineered to be louder.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

If the orchestras today play louder than they used to and if Beethoven is born today, he could have heared his ninth.


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## VoiceFromTheEther (Aug 6, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> A lot of the problems could be lessened if conductors would position players differently - no one wants to sit right in front of a trumpet or snare drum.


What positioning would you suggest?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

pianozach said:


> Offhand I'd say yes.
> 
> The instruments you'd find in an orchestra today (as well as the size of orchestras today) have changed.
> 
> Some instruments from the Baroque and even the Classical eras have been replaced by louder instruments, and even instruments that remain have been re-engineered to be louder.


The big increase in volume occurred, imo, in the early 40s, and certainly post-war....American orchestras definitely increased the sound level - NBC, NYPO, Chicago.....newly developed brass instruments - Conn trombones horns, Bach trympets, etc...players using bigger, deeper mouthpieces....i believe this is true for woodwinds as well...it certainly applied to bassoons, as the Heckel firm began producing larger bore, larger tone hole instruments, to support a bigger sound...of course, the Russian orchestras had their own approach...
I've been listening to a lot of recordings from the 50s-80s....the sound levels produced by such orchestras as Chicago, NYPO LeningradPO, MoscowPO are pretty astounding....LondonSO could be quite impressive in the volume dept as well...


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