# PC cadenzas



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Which PC cadenza is your favorite? Some are written by composers, some are improvised by performers, which one do you prefer and why? My favorite is Mozart PC no. 25 first movement. What is yours?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> Which PC cadenza is your favorite? Some are written by composers, some are improvised by performers, which one do you prefer and why? My favorite is Mozart PC no. 25 first movement. What is yours?


I love the long Beethoven First Movement PC No. 1 cadenza and also the long Rachmaninov First Movement PC No. 3 cadenza.

Yes the Mozart 25th First Movement cadenza is dazzlingly grand!!

A nice thread idea!! :tiphat:


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

My favorites are the cadenzas that Beethoven wrote for Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 20.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

My jaw drops every time I hear Prokofiev's monster cadenza in his PC #2. Perhaps my mind is more susceptible to boggling than others', but it is boggled and really, really pleased whenever....


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> My jaw drops every time I hear Prokofiev's monster cadenza in his PC #2. Perhaps my mind is more susceptible to boggling than others', but it is boggled and really, really pleased whenever....


I quite agree on that one; it is truly the Chuck Norris of cadenzas. 

I also like the one from the first movement of Beethoven's PC 4; not sure if he himself wrote it?


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

The Cadenza from Bach's Bradenburg Concerto No.5. It's not a piano concerto, but it's close enough for me


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Agree on Prokofiev's 2nd. When I first read the score, I wondered if it was composed for four hands.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

JamieHoldham said:


> The Cadenza from Bach's Bradenburg Concerto No.5. It's not a piano concerto, but it's close enough for me


Great stuff. This show how innovative Bach is. I think this piece inspired others to write cadenzas.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

How about 1st movement cadenza from Rachmaninov's 4th PC? Especially on his recording of the piece.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

brianvds said:


> I quite agree on that one; it is truly the Chuck Norris of cadenzas.
> 
> I also like the one from the first movement of Beethoven's PC 4; not sure if he himself wrote it?


Not sure which one you mean for Beethoven's PC 4, but he did indeed write one for it himself; it's pretty commonly performed. Lots of other notables have tried their hands at it too, including Brahms, Saint-Säens, Rubinstein, Medtner and Busoni.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

gardibolt said:


> Not sure which one you mean for Beethoven's PC 4, but he did indeed write one for it himself; it's pretty commonly performed. Lots of other notables have tried their hands at it too, including Brahms, Saint-Säens, Rubinstein, Medtner and Busoni.


Beethoven wrote 2 cadenzas for the first movement of Piano Concerto 4.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

When I saw the thread title I thought "surely not politically correct cadenzas? Is this what we have come to?". Thank goodness I read further.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> When I saw the thread title I thought "surely not politically correct cadenzas? Is this what we have come to?". Thank goodness I read further.


Why should we be politically correct on cadenzas? Let's be frank about what you think. Some cadenzas are great, some are not as great.....


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

gardibolt said:


> Not sure which one you mean for Beethoven's PC 4, but he did indeed write one for it himself; it's pretty commonly performed. Lots of other notables have tried their hands at it too, including Brahms, Saint-Säens, Rubinstein, Medtner and Busoni.





hpowders said:


> Beethoven wrote 2 cadenzas for the first movement of Piano Concerto 4.


I have only ever heard one cadenza, which I presume is the most popular one. Namely this one:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I like the ossia Cadenza from Rach 3 and I hate it when they play it as written in the main score and I refuse to be politically correct about that.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I had thought Beethoven wrote the cadenzas into the score of his 4th Piano Concerto, but Wiki says otherwise.

“Cadenzas for the Fourth Piano Concerto have been written by a number of pianists and composers throughout its history; these include Beethoven himself (2 separate sets of cadenzas), Johannes Brahms, Clara Schumann, Ferruccio Busoni, Hans von Bülow, Ignaz Moscheles, Camille Saint-Saëns, Anton Rubinstein, Wilhelm Kempff, Nikolai Medtner, Eugen d'Albert, Leopold Godowsky, Samuil Feinberg, and Marc-André Hamelin.”


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

*Tchaikovsky*:

Piano Concerto no. II (first movement)
Concert Fantasy (first movement)
*Rachmaninoff*:

Piano Concerto no. III (first movement)
*Samuel Barber*:

Piano Concerto (first movement)


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Beethoven wrote 2 cadenzas for the first movement of Piano Concerto 4.


Actually there are three for the first movement of Beethoven's Piano Concerto 4: two catalogued as Biamonti 509, and one catalogued as Hess 81. OCD as I am, I've analyzed the recordings I have to determine which cadenzas are played by whom.

The first and most popular (and longer) cadenza Biamonti 509 begins in 6/8 time and is played on the following recordings:
Arthur Rubinstein; Daniel Barenboim, London Philharmonic (Rubinstein plays Saint-Säens' cadenza in his mono 1947 recording with Beecham)
Arthur Rubinstein; Erich Leinsdorf, Boston Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Josef Krips, Symphony of the Air
Artur Schnabel; Malcolm Sargent, London Philharmonic
Claudio Arrau; Colin Davis, Staatskapelle Dresden
Claudio Arrau; Leonard Bernstein, Bavarian RSO
Friedrich Gulda; Horst Stein, Vienna Philharmonic
Gina Bachauer; Antal Doráti, London Symphony
Glenn Gould; Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic
Ilana Vered; Kazmierz Kord, Warsaw Philharmonic
Jasminka Starcul; Alexander Rahban, Slovak Radio New Philharmonic
Kristian Zimerman; Leonard Bernstein, Vienna Philharmonic
Maurizio Piaciariello; Roberto Diem Tigani, Sassari Symphony
Melvyn Tan; Roger Norrington, London Classical Players
Murray Perahia; Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw
Rudolf Serkin; Arturo Toscanini, NBC Symphony
Van Cliburn; Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony

The second and shorter Biamonti 509 is in common (4/4) time, and shows up on these recordings:
Alfred Brendel; Simon Rattle, Vienna Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Karl Böhm, Vienna Philharmonic
Walter Gieseking; Herbert von Karajan, Philharmonia (1951)

The third, a rather brief cadenza of only 11 measures, also in 4/4 time, has never to my knowledge been recorded. Unlike the other two, it starts with a series of upward scales in G for a bar before arriving at the theme; the other two start off with the main theme right away. If anyone knows of any recordings of this one, please let me know. Otherwise the only way to hear it is  at The Unheard Beethoven.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> Why should we be politically correct on cadenzas? Let's be frank about what you think. Some cadenzas are great, some are not as great.....


And I was trying to figure out Personal Computer cadenzas :lol:

:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

gardibolt said:


> Actually there are three for the first movement of Beethoven's Piano Concerto 4: two catalogued as Biamonti 509, and one catalogued as Hess 81. OCD as I am, I've analyzed the recordings I have to determine which cadenzas are played by whom.
> 
> The first and most popular (and longer) cadenza Biamonti 509 begins in 6/8 time and is played on the following recordings:
> Arthur Rubinstein; Daniel Barenboim, London Philharmonic (Rubinstein plays Saint-Säens' cadenza in his mono 1947 recording with Beecham)
> ...


gardibolt, I admire you knowledge and details to track down all the recordings. Do you have a list of these for the other 4 concertos of Beethoven?


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Barelytenor said:


> And I was trying to figure out Personal Computer cadenzas :lol:
> 
> :tiphat:
> 
> ...


Do you have Personal Computer cadenzas? If so, let's hear them.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> gardibolt, I admire you knowledge and details to track down all the recordings. Do you have a list of these for the other 4 concertos of Beethoven?


Well, the first three. The Emperor doesn't have a cadenza per se, but it is written out in full.

Concerto 1:
Three cadenzas for the first movement, all catalogued under Biamonti 506; plus there's an additional (uncatologued) one for the third movement Rondo that was on a sketch leaf owned by Toscanini and Horowitz.

#1 is somewhat incomplete and the end of the cadenza is left to the performer, thus it's not used too often (starts with chords in the right hand in a scale going downward):
Claudio Arrau; Colin Davis, Staatskapelle Dresden
Glenn Gould; Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic

#2 (starts with 16th notes going up then down in the right hand):
Ilana Vered; Kazmierz Kord, Warsaw Philharmonic
Jasminka Starcul; Alexander Rahban, Slovak Radio New Philharmonic
Martha Argerich; Giuseppe Sinopoli, Philharmonia
Solomon; Herbert Menges, Philharmonia
Walter Gieseking; Hans Rosbaud, Berlin State Opera

#3 is the longest and most flamboyantly virtuosic, with lots of runs up and down (starts with a downward scale first in the left hand, then another downward scale in the right hand):
Ania Dorfmann; Arturo Toscanini, NBC Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Daniel Barenboim, London Philharmonic (Rubinstein plays #3 as edited by Busoni; the differences are modest)
Arthur Rubinstein; Erich Leinsdorf, Boston Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Josef Krips, Symphony of the Air
Artur Schnabel; Malcolm Sargent, London Philharmonic
Christoph Eschenbach; Herbert von Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic
Friedrich Gulda; Horst Stein, Vienna Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Eugen Jochum, Vienna Philharmonic
Melvyn Tan; Roger Norrington, London Classical Players
Murray Perahia; Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw
Sviatoslav Richter; Charles Munch, Boston Symphony
Sviatoslav Richter; Chistoph Eschenbach, Schleswig-Holstein Music Festival

The only recording of the third movement Toscanini/Horowitz leaf cadenza that I'm aware of is included with Murray Perahia; Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw

=============================

Concerto No. 2 in Bb

There's only one complete cadenza, Biamonti 507.
The following performers use it on their recordings:
Arthur Rubinstein; Daniel Barenboim, London Philharmonic
Arthur Rubinstein; Erich Leinsdorf, Boston Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Josef Krips, Symphony of the Air
Artur Schnabel; Malcolm Sargent, London Philharmonic
Claudio Arrau; Colin Davis, Staatskapelle Dresden
Friedrich Gulda; Horst Stein, Vienna Philharmonic
Glenn Gould; Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic
Ilana Vered; Kazmierz Kord, Warsaw Philharmonic
Jasminka Starcul; Alexander Rahban, Slovak Radio New Philharmonic
Leon Fleischer; George Szell, Swiss Festival Lucerne 1962
Martha Argerich; Claudio Abbado, Mahler Chamber Orchestra
Martha Argerich; Giuseppe Sinopoli, Philharmonia
Maurizio Pollini; Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Eugen Jochum, Vienna Philharmonic
Melvyn Tan; Roger Norrington, London Classical Players
Murray Perahia; Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw
Ronald Brautigam; Andrew Parrott, Norrköping Symphony
Solomon; André Cluytens, Philharmonia

There is also a fragmentary cadenza/sketch of a cadenza catalogued as Hess 79. The only recording I'm aware of that uses it is Maurizio Piaciariello; Roberto Diem Tigani, Sassari Symphony (on the Inedita label).

====================

Concerto No. 3

There's only one cadenza by Beethoven, Biamonti 508. It's performed on recordings by:
Annie Fischer; Ferenc Fricsay, Bavarian State Orchestra
Arthur Rubinstein; Arturo Toscanini, NBC Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Daniel Barenboim, London Philharmonic
Arthur Rubinstein; Erich Leinsdorf, Boston Symphony
Arthur Rubinstein; Josef Krips, Symphony of the Air
Artur Schnabel; Malcolm Sargent, London Philharmonic
Claudio Arrau; Colin Davis, Staatskapelle Dresden
Claudio Arrau; Eugene Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra
Friedrich Gulda; Horst Stein, Vienna Philharmonic
Glenn Gould; Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic
Ilana Vered; Kazmierz Kord, Warsaw Philharmonic
Jasminka Starcul; Alexander Rahban, Slovak Radio New Philharmonic
Krystian Zimerman; Leonard Bernstein, Vienna Philharmonic
Martha Argerich; Claudio Abbado, Mahler Chamber Orchestra
Maurizio Pollini; Claudio Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic
Maurizio Pollini; Karl Böhm, Vienna Philharmonic
Melvyn Tan; Roger Norrington, London Classical Players
Murray Perahia; Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw
Rudolf Serkin; Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic
Sviatoslav Richter; Kurt Sanderling, Vienna Symphony
Sviatoslav Richter; Riccardo Muti, Philharmonia
Vlado Perlmutter; Jean Martinon, RDF National Orchestra


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