# Best Organ Symphonies



## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

Two symphonies #3

Saint Saens (of course)






but also






Khachaturian (stunning)

Anything else?


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Charles-Marie Widor has four of them: op. 42/69/81/83


----------



## Boston Charlie (Dec 6, 2017)

I only know two: St. Seans and Copland. Both are favorites of mine.


----------



## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

My favourite organ symphony is probably Symphony No.1 by Louis Vierne (1870-1937). My first encounter with it was at my church, as part of a concert series that I attended as a child. This was a long time ago. The only complete recording of it in my collection is the one with Michael Murray playing the Cavaillé-Coll Organ at Saint Ouen de Rouen (Telarc CD-80329) I like it very much, particularly because the Telarc recording process captures the strength of the bass. Very often the finale of this symphony is used as a showpiece, to exhibit the facility of the organist and the instrument.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The symphony concertante for organ and orchestra by Joseph Jongen is a must hear.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Antiquarian said:


> My favourite organ symphony is probably Symphony No.1 by Louis Vierne (1870-1937).


AFAIK this is for organ solo (Widor also had a lot of those, and probably a few more, typically French, composers did). I think the OP is asking for symphonies for organ and orchestra.


----------



## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> AFAIK this is for organ solo (Widor also had a lot of those, and probably a few more, typically French, composers did). I think the OP is asking for symphonies for organ and orchestra.


Yes, I meant to say organ and orchestra


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Poul Ruders Symphony No.4 "An Organ Symphony"

Mr Ruders is a Danish composer who is also an organist. It is a newer composition, from the 21st century. I find it to be quite an accessible work, considering that it is new music. I highly recommend it.


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

http://www.musicsalesclassical.com/composer/work/1342/36928

_Programme Note

Poul Ruders Symfoni nr. 4 (2008)

An organ Symphony

2008-2009

When introducing a large-scale symphonic work not only as a symphony, but as an organ symphony, it would be impossible not to think of and perhaps compare it with Camille Saint-Saëns's famous Symphony no. 3, popularly known as the organ symphony. Well, that is a risk I am prepared to take - and live with the consequences.

Saint-Saëns, however, listed his work as a symphony avec/with organ. The organ only appears in two out of the four sections of the piece. In my symphony, the instrument plays a far more significant part and is features in all four movements. But it is not a concerto for organ and orchestra, rather a symphony with organo obligato - a symphony with an organ part of a soloistic nature. So, an Organ Symphony it is.

The first movement, Prelude, is exactly that: a foreplay to what is in store for the rest of the symphony. It is slow (very slow!) and predominantly hushed: the organ and the orchestra wake up, side-by-side, getting to know one another.

The second movement, Cortége, is a slowly moving processional and it evokes extreme solemnity and austerity. Later on, the music takes flight and the atmosphere lightens considerably, a far more playful music emerging.

This leads to the third movement, Etude, an exercise in instrumental virtuosity and technical challenge.

The fourth and last movement is called Chaconne, but I could just a well have named it passacaglia (the definition of those two terms seems to blur, even among the learned). Bearing in mind the last movement of Johannes Brahms's Symphony no. 4, which is universally agreed on as being a passacaglia, I chose to avoid the Wrath of the Gods and opted for "chaconne" (also a nicer and less heavy word, I think).

In any case, both tiles indicate a composition progressing on the back of a doggedly repeated bass line, which eventually wedges its way up and into the middle and upper layers of the composition. In classical times, a passacaglia/chaconne was always in three quarter meter. Mine is in four quarter meter, and the tune, the so-called ostinato, opens the movement, not in the bass, as tradition dictates, but in the middle register, played by winds and strings. When the organ enters the picture a bit later, the build-up starts in earnest, reaching its peak at the conclusion, the coda of the movement.

There is, however, a little surprise, an almost inaudible turn of events at the very end.

The work was commissioned by The Dallas Symphony Orchestra for the Lay Family Concert Organ, situated in The Meyerson Symphony Center, Dallas, Texas.

- Poul Ruders _


----------



## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Nevum said:


> Yes, I meant to say organ and orchestra


Ah! My apologies. My favourite Organ and Orchestra Symphony is probably Saint-Saëns No.3 . I really tried to enjoy Aaron Copland's _Symphony for Organ_ (1924) but I would be lying if I found it attractive. His later _Symphony No.1_ is really the same animal, just without the organ.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Hard to believe the Poulenc Organ concerto wasn't mentioned here. Only the Saint Saens surpasses it.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

larold said:


> Hard to believe the Poulenc Organ concerto wasn't mentioned here. Only the Saint Saens surpasses it.


Well, the question is about symphonies.....


----------



## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

A word for the two Rheinberger Organ Symhonies


----------



## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Poulenc (yes it's an organ _concerto_, but don't be a pedant: just listen to it)


----------



## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

The two symphonies by Alexandre Guilmant. Interesting stuff.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm a bit confused now by the genre. Symphony with organ appearing as one of the instruments? Symphony with organ as a major solo instrument (concerto)? "Symphony" with organ as a sole instrument?

In any case, for me the ultimate symphonic work with organ is Saint-Saëns’s symphony.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

manyene said:


> A word for the two Rheinberger Organ Symhonies


Pedant or not, AFAIK these are organ concertos, not symphonies.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Lenny said:


> I'm a bit confused now by the genre. Symphony with organ appearing as one of the instruments? Symphony with organ as a major solo instrument (concerto)? "Symphony" with organ as a sole instrument?
> 
> In any case, for me the ultimate symphonic work with organ is Saint-Saëns's symphony.


The OP asked for symphonies for orchestra with organ. So symphonies for organ solo do not qualify. Neither do concertos imo, but there is no consensus on that.

If concertos are to be included, I'd like to mention Hanson, Keuris (which I prefer over the already mentioned Poulenc), Eben and Hakim.


----------



## ToneDeaf&Senile (May 20, 2010)

As with others here, I list Saint-Saens' third as my prime pick of Symphonies with Organ. A work no one has mentioned (that I notice) ought to at least deserve a passing nod...Mahler's Second Symphony. Its organ contribution is rather limited (in relation to the work as a whole) but it is certainly a great composition.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

ToneDeaf&Senile said:


> As with others here, I list Saint-Saens' third as my prime pick of Symphonies with Organ. A work no one has mentioned (that I notice) ought to at least deserve a passing nod...Mahler's Second Symphony. Its organ contribution is rather limited (in relation to the work as a whole) but it is certainly a great composition.


If we go that route... Mahler #8. Veni, Creator Spiritus!


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Marcel Dupre's symphony for organ and orchestra is worth a spin as well.


----------



## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

MusicSybarite said:


> The two symphonies by Alexandre Guilmant. Interesting stuff.


Yes Guilmant is amazing.


----------



## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

1-9: Saint-Saëns Nr.3 Not only the greatest Organ Symphony by a massive margin but also One of the greatest symphonies ever. 
10: Guilmant Nr.2 greaaat Second movement 
Other interesting ones: Copland and Saint-Saëns Cypres et Lauriers


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Aaron Copland wrote a very nice Organ Symphony. Sadly neglected.

Give it a spin!


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

No one has mentioned (I think) the Khachaturian 3rd symphony - for orchestra, organ and 16 trumpets. Astonishingly bombastic and tasteless - yet the big string tune is quite memorable, as is the Phantom of the Opera organ cadenza. Been recorded a few times, but the only one worth hearing is Stokowski with Chicago on RCA. The LP is easier to get than the cd.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

my absolutely favorite organ work is Hindemith's organ concerto. It is not a symphony, but it is organ + orchestra. Second would be Saint-Saens. Francis Poulenc - Concerto for Organ, Timpani and Strings in G minor is also very good


----------



## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

"Organ Symphony" seems a rather narrow category, especially if this then precludes Vierne and much of Widor too. Incidentally, Kalevi Aho's Eighth symphony is with organ, so should count. I don't know it, sorry. Glad Ruders got a mention, but we're still a bit limited. 

So bring on the concertos!!!!! 

Jacck, there are two Hindemith organ concertos, the late (and for me rather bland) one, and the last Kammermusik, which is echt-Hindemith. If you're Czech-based, you ought to be pushing the works of the grotesquely underrated Petr Eben, a very very fine composer indeed. For me he rivals Messiaen as an organ composer.

Poulenc, of course. And all those Handels!


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Robert, yes I mean the late 1962 Hindemith organ concerto. For me, it is not bland at all ! But it required like 4 listenings to start really liking it. I also enjoy his 3 organ sonatas. 
Petr Eben sounds really good. I haven't known him. It is a shame


----------



## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

Well, let's see:

Saint-Saens' 3rd Symphony is the obvious recommendation.

Same with Copland's Symphony for Organ and Orchestra; tho admittedly I haven't really found myself all that fond of the piece yet. Not sure if Bernstein's conducting is suiting me yet.

Widor was the one that really got me into the whole Organ/Orchestra obsession; starting with the aptly names Symphony for Organ and Orchestra. Likewise his Sinfonia Sacra and Symphony #3 are both great as well. While his Symphonie Antique doesn't feature an organ through the whole piece, tho moment it does appear is just...amazing. <3

I'll also recommend:

Guilmant: Symphony for Organ and Orchestra #1 and #2
Dupre: Symphony for Organ and Orchestra
Straus: An Alpine Symphony
Vaughn Williams: Sinfonia antarctica
Jongen: Symphonie concertante
Fetis: Symphonic Fantasy for Organ and Orchestra
Dubois: Fantaisie triomphale
Tournemire: Symphony #6

I would also like to mention Mahler's 8th Symphony and the Gothic Symphony by Havergal Brian. While not necessarily an organ symphony; both pieces do feature prominent organs that make their presence knows.

Of course there's also countless concerti and various movie score, so yeah.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

R. Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie has some amazing low organ notes.


----------



## marlow (11 mo ago)

Vaughan Williams Symphony Antarctica


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Some other symphonies that have more or less important organ parts:

- Tchaikovsky, Manfred
- Bax, symphonies nos. 2 and 4
- Ives, symphony no. 4 and the projected Universe Symphony
- Rachmaninoff - The Bells (a choral symphony)
- Mendelssohn - symphony no. 2 "Lobgesang"
- Scriabin - Poem of Ecstasy and Prometheus (sometimes called symphonies nos. 4 and 5)


----------



## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

How prominent is the organ in Vaughn Williams' Symphony #1? Haven't really latched myself onto that one just yet so I feel like I am missing it.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Frederik Magle 




Symphony no. 1 in D Major for Organ




Symphony no. 2 for Organ "Let there be light" (1993)


----------



## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

20centrfuge said:


> http://www.musicsalesclassical.com/composer/work/1342/36928
> _Programme Note
> Poul Ruders Symfoni nr. 4 (2008)
> An organ Symphony
> ...


Not an organist, but after having listened and read about about many works for organ and orchestra, I think that composer and organist Poul Ruders (and 20centrfuge) are correct in the above distinctions that should apply generally. Saint-Saens was a great organist and knew what he was doing when he called Symphony No. 3 a "symphony _with_ organ." If that's what he wanted and it makes sense, that's enough. As well as the organ with its spectacular entrance, the Third is a symphony _with_ piano duet and _with_ unusually prominent harp parts among its sonic resources, all of which the composer handles deftly. Also, it would be clearer if we stuck with distinguishing the symphony for organ and orchestra from the concerto for organ and orchestra. Finally, I think there is a problem with Widor's term for his big solo organ compositions -- organ symphony -- because it is easily confused with symphony for organ and orchestra. I was fooled by it when I first looked into Widor's music.


----------



## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

SO, could somebody please define the difference between an organ symphony and an organ concerto, both involve an organ and an orchestra , what (if anything) is the difference??????????? (same observation applies to any other orchestra and instrument not normally part of an orchestra)
My personal preference for organ and orchestra would be the twelve Organ concerti by John stanley Opus 2 and Opus 10


----------



## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Dorsetmike said:


> SO, could somebody please define the difference between an organ symphony and an organ concerto, both involve an organ and an orchestra , what (if anything) is the difference??????????? (same observation applies to any other orchestra and instrument not normally part of an orchestra)
> My personal preference for organ and orchestra would be the twelve Organ concerti by John stanley Opus 2 and Opus 10


Ok I'll try to make some relevant points but can't provide an definitive answer:

1. In post #35 I applauded the distinctions that organist-composer Poul Ruders made (though many don't), then added the sentence, "Also, it would be clearer if we stuck with distinguishing the symphony for organ and orchestra from the concerto for organ and orchestra." That is a plea from this confused non-organist! Would people please, as Art Rock suggests, stick to the _composer's title_ -- "concerto" or "symphony" (many don't). And that would be a starting point. From there it would take an expert who had made a study of a lot of symphonies for organ and orchestra and a lot of concertos for organ and orchestra, to arrive at a definition. However, not all is lost -- here are some thoughts:

2. Many _concertos for organ and orchestra_ (e.g. by Handel) were composed in the 18th century (Baroque and Classical), far fewer in the 19th.

3. The _symphony for organ and orchestra_ did not appear till the later 19th century, especially in France where the powerful Cavaillé-Coll instrument could stand up in loudness to the orchestra in late romantic music.

4. The concerto for organ and orchestra made a recovery in the 20th century. The symphony for organ and orchestra became relatively less common but did not disappear, as Ruders' composition shows.


----------



## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

The piece that really made me fall in love with the organ & orchestra symphony.


----------



## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

Feliks Nowowiejski's Organ Symphonies Nos. 4 & 5


----------



## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

The best of all is the 1st version of Bernd Alois Zimmermann: Sinfonie in einem Satz…


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Art Rock said:


> Leo Sowerby: Organ concerto, Medieval Poem, Pageant, Festival Musick (Fairfield Orchestra, John Welsh, David Craighead, David Mulbury, Rita Lilly, Naxos)
> 
> My last Sowerby CD to play again. The Classic Concerto (for organ and strings) from 1945 is one of the better organ concertos I've heard. Medieval Poem (1926) is another very worthwhile concertante work for organ and orchestra, ending with a beautiful vocalise by soprano Rita Lilly. Pagenat (1931) is a substantial work for organ solo. Festival Musick (1953) is another concertante work. It's a good piece, but I found the others more interesting.


Just finished listening to this one. Warmly recommended for lovers of organ/orchestra combinations.


----------



## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

Welp, I decided to give Copland's Organ and Orchestra Symphony another go. This time instead of the Bernstein recording I went with Slatkin/St Lous Symphony and...lo and behold, I enjoyed it! The piece finally clicked with me and I really got into it. Well done!


----------

