# A new violin concerto!



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

How are you?
In Italy it is finished at the top of the charts of the best selling records, 
A CONTEMPORARY CONCERT FOR VIOLIN AND ORCHESTRA!!

It was commissioned young composer by the Paganini Competition.
What do you think?

Peter


----------



## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

It reminds me of Karl Jenkins' Palladio at the beginning, but better. I quite like it.

Do you mean it topped classical charts, or all genres?

Actually I prefer it to all that lot: Jenkins, Rutter etc. not that it's above criticism by any means.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

all genres! A really strange thing..


----------



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

That wasn't half bad, appreciate the links!


----------



## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

That was a big ball of fun! I listened to some more of the album on Spotify. Some of the other pieces are a bit insipid but "Mandela" is as interesting and entertaining as the violin concerto; overall a composer I'm going to pay attention to.


----------



## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Yeah, this is fun music! I'm up to the 2nd mvt now and am really enjoying it.

Thanks for introducing me to this new contemporary composer! I'll support him and buy his CD! (album name is 'Sunrise', can be gotten from Amazon)

I'm a real sucker for violin concerti, hehehe



hreichgott said:


> That was a big ball of fun! I listened to some more of the album on Spotify. Some of the other pieces are a bit insipid but "Mandela" is as interesting and entertaining as the violin concerto; overall a composer I'm going to pay attention to.


You're right, Mandela is a lot of fun too!


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

Llyranor said:


> Yeah, this is fun music! I'm up to the 2nd mvt now and am really enjoying it.
> 
> Thanks for introducing me to this new contemporary composer! I'll support him and buy his CD! (album name is 'Sunrise', can be gotten from Amazon)
> 
> ...


Also I follow the young composer Allevi, and I particularly like the composition "Mandela", as well as his violin concerto.
They say Allevi has some personality disorder ....
In this interview in Italian,






he continues to say: "I am nothing, I am nothing, my music is nothing!!!"
He also says he loves to put the tiles on the walls. If anyone needs, please contact him!
Who said that composing music is a good thing? :lol:


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Llyranor said:


> I'll support him and buy his CD! (album name is 'Sunrise', can be gotten from Amazon)


"Sunrise?" What? No. No. That's all wrong. You have to name a classical album something like "_4 Wirklich Anmaßend Konzerte und Orchesterwerke - Köln-Ensemblemusik Ubermeister_"


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I quite enjoyed the concerto as well. The first movement was rather engaging. I have included Allevi on my list of composers I want to hear more from.


----------



## Truckload (Feb 15, 2012)

Fabulous music. Very skillfull, the harmonies, the form, the masterful handling of the violin! Wow! 

If he keeps this up, he could become the most significant composer of our time! I'm gushing, sorry, but I just LOVE IT!


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I made it about one-third through each movement, and found nothing at all interesting, moving, or exciting. What I did find was banal and boring, a slightly 'high flight' piece as if commissioned for the slot of fiddle concerto as functioning in a movie score.... Oh, wait, we already have Corigliano's "Red Violin Concerto" as concert piece extracted from Corigliano's film score.

The Allevi Concerto in F minor sounds like it is a score waiting for the film for which it is the background. I suppose the mosh of generic styles is what makes me think "well crafted film score with no other import."

I'm sure it is the 'new old-fashioned style' music which many a retro-conservative classical fan yearns for, and there you have it: that retro-conservative, 'old fashioned' music safely -- to the maximum -- being very much 'like everything the retro-conservative has heard before,' -- which makes it about as non-challenging (and meaningful) as slipping into a hot tub and lighting a scented candle.

The extensively idiomatic 'virtuoso' violin writing may be the only thing holding this one in the ears of the public.

For me, it is eminently forgettable: I've heard better 'neo-retro' bits as background in films and television series themes.

Though original, it is retro reproductive enough that I can think of a whole community of players, conductors, musicologists, comp teachers who, upon first hearing or first glance at the score would say, essentially, the same, i.e. "Why bother to have written it at all?"


----------



## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Haha, I was waiting for you to turn up here PetrB :lol:


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

PetrB said:


> I made it about one-third through each movement, and found nothing at all interesting, moving, or exciting. What I did find was banal and boring, a slightly 'high flight' piece as if commissioned for the slot of fiddle concerto as functioning in a movie score.... Oh, wait, we already have Corigliano's "Red Violin Concerto" as concert piece extracted from Corigliano's film score.
> 
> This concerto in F minor sounds like it is waiting for its film to which to be the background. I suppose the mosh of generic styles is what makes me think "well crafted film score with no other import."
> 
> ...


ah ah ah ah!!!! We were waiting for you! Indeed, the strength of this concerto is its modernity.
Listen carefully to the rhythm: it is not "Hip Hop"? The "Cadenza" in the third movement?
You must be joking. It 'a masterpiece!


----------



## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

I can't help it, but it does sound dull and rather boring. The music doesn't sound much dynamic (maybe it's the recording), the melodies seem to have been heard before and the violin part seems to be mostly going up and down the scales.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> ah ah ah ah!!!! We were waiting for you! Indeed, the strength of this concerto is its modernity.
> Listen carefully to the rhythm: it is not "Hip Hop"? The "Cadenza" in the third movement?
> You must be joking. It 'a masterpiece!


Not joking. Pretty sure the composer wasn't joking either. Inclusion of a few fairly contemporary rhythms does not a masterpiece make, nor does good idiomatic writing for the fiddle.

Masterpiece? Side by side with the Berg and Stravinsky concerti? In comparison to the conservative modern / romantic Barber Concerto? Compared to the Ligeti, or a number of others?

New standard of 'masterpiece,' I guess.


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)




----------



## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

In fairness I didn't think it was a masterpiece either. However, the guy is pretty young and I think he has a great deal of potential, particularly if he goes down a road of imbuing his compositions with more intellectual rigour rather than pandering to popular taste. I would be very happy to have written that myself. I would also be pushing myself further.

However, as I intimated in my previous post, I think this works very well in comparison with the clunky structure of Jenkins' Palladio, for example, and I think the cliches are better incorporated. It lacks thematic continuity among other things, as well as being a bit over violin-centric, but I think it coheres well and manages to be obviously modern, and actually probably precisely in step with the times as far as classical music is concerned.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

some guy said:


>


.......nice!


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ramako said:


> In fairness I didn't think it was a masterpiece either. However, the guy is pretty young and I think he has a great deal of potential, particularly if he goes down a road of imbuing his compositions with more intellectual rigour rather than pandering to popular taste. I would be very happy to have written that myself. I would also be pushing myself further.
> 
> However, as I intimated in my previous post, I think this works very well in comparison with the clunky structure of Jenkins' Palladio, for example, and I think the cliches are better incorporated. It lacks thematic continuity among other things, as well as being a bit over violin-centric, but I think it coheres well and manages to be obviously modern, and actually probably precisely in step with the times as far as classical music is concerned.


Other than I can tell 'it was written recently' there is nothing at all 'modern' to me about its sound.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Stiff Competition*

A guy came up and asked me, "What's you mother-in-law like?"
And I responded, "Compared to what."

This is not a bad work but my reaction is similar to 'PetrB's'. There are many other recent concertos which appear to be much more interesting. For example:

Edgar Meyer
Jennifer Higdon
Andre Previn
John Corigliano
Mark O'Conner composed a nifty concerto for two violins. I attended a live performance with O'Connor and Saelerno-Sonnenberg with the National Symphony.
Richard Danialpour composed a nice double concerto for violin, cello & orchestra _In the Arms of the Beloved_

Anyway this is just our opinion. If this music is pleasing to your ears, go for it. 

Just remembered that Michael Daugherty composed an awesome concerto entitled _Fire and Blood_


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

I can't think of many positive things to say about the piece. There really isn't anything there. A lot of hackneyed worn out progressions, lot's of busy figuration, a sense of running out of steam with an idea then lurching to something new. Very sectionalised - the whole is less than the sum of the bits which is not a good thing.
I think it is pop music played on a violin with orchestra playing at being classical music.
One positive thing for the composer is this- he'll probably have a long successful career and earn bucket-loads of dosh so good luck to him.


----------



## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Masterpiece? Side by side with the Berg and Stravinsky concerti? In comparison to the conservative modern / romantic Barber Concerto? Compared to the Ligeti, or a number of others?
> 
> New standard of 'masterpiece,' I guess.


I agree that this concerto is not a masterpiece, nor is it as original or as interesting as the concerti you mention.

I do find it good music of the fun and entertaining variety, and I intend to listen to it again. Probably not as often as I will listen to Berg though.

I think it's possible for music to be good and entertaining without being A MASTERPIECE FOR THE AGES.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

arpeggio said:


> Edgar Meyer
> Jennifer Higdon
> Andre Previn
> John Corigliano
> ...


I hate to say it, but I would far rather listen to any of the above. I may not particularly like Higdon's (or most other Neoromantics') music, but it's far more accomplished and even more interesting than this.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Is it true that this has topped the charts in Italy?

Even if it hasn't done that, but especially if it has - here we have another thread complaining about how unpopular classical music is, so I guess we might want to take what we can get with a bit of gratitude. It's not all bad.

But then - http://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/science/1004-turning-people-off-music.html


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> Just remembered that Michael Daugherty composed an awesome concerto entitled _Fire and Blood_


A very enjoyable piece, though probably too conservative for some! Of the other concertos you mentioned, I've never been able to like the Corigiano, also quite conservative, because it seems...well...boring.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hreichgott said:


> I agree that this concerto is not a masterpiece, nor is it as original or as interesting as the concerti you mention.
> 
> I do find it good music of the fun and entertaining variety, and I intend to listen to it again. Probably not as often as I will listen to Berg though.
> 
> I think it's possible for music to be good and entertaining without being A MASTERPIECE FOR THE AGES.


Different tastes, simply: the Allevi fiddle concerto did not have enough to hold my interest through the length of any of its movements... I did not care for what I was hearing, which sounded 'generic' or 'derivative' to me, the same ole same ole without any 'pull' of its own. [To my ears, not yours.]


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Other than I can tell 'it was written recently' there is nothing at all 'modern' to me about its sound.


When you say that you can tell "it was written recently", do you mean you can tell from listening to it or from reading posts that inform you when it was written? If you meant from listening, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "modern". If you can tell something was written recently, presumably no one wrote like that before. That seems to imply modern, but maybe you have a specific definition of "modern" that is different from mine.

Are you distinguishing between the modern era and contemporary music?


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

mmsbls said:


> When you say that you can tell "it was written recently", do you mean you can tell from listening to it or from reading posts that inform you when it was written? If you meant from listening, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "modern". If you can tell something was written recently, presumably no one wrote like that before. That seems to imply modern, but maybe you have a specific definition of "modern" that is different from mine.
> 
> Are you distinguishing between the modern era and contemporary music?


Obviously we are talking about definitions that have no objective meaning.
I mean "contemporary" in a temporal sense, not to identify a genre.
If we listen to the first theme of the first movement and we compare with the same Tchaikovsky, we understand very well that the Allevi's Violin concerto is composed today.
This is also the reason why it has been for a long time in the top of the charts, and his tour has been a sold-out everywhere.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I don't have much to say about the music that hasn't already been said. But I will say that the composer looks like Howard Stern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Stern

I enjoyed the piece posted by some guy quite a bit more.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Truckload said:


> Fabulous music. Very skillfull, the harmonies, the form, the masterful handling of the violin! Wow!
> 
> If he keeps this up, he could become the most significant composer of our time! I'm gushing, sorry, but I just LOVE IT!


Are you being sarcastic?

If you aren't, then I don't think you fully grasp the meaning of the word "significant" especially when it is sandwiched between the words "most" and "of our time."


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

*Yury Revich plays Allevi's violin concerto - interview*

Interview with Yury Revich, solo violinist at Cremona concert!
5 questions to young talent Yury Revich who on 14th December performed the solo violinist part during Giovanni Allevi's Concerto for Violin and Orchestra at Ponchielli Theatre in Cremona.

Yury made his debut at La Scala Theatre in Milan just a few months ago with Tchaikovsky concerto.

WATCH an excerpt from the concert: http://www.laprovinciacr.it/video/72559/Cremona---Il-concerto-di.html

Dear Yury, you had a great success at Teatro Ponchielli in Cremona, the birthplace city of the Violin. What kind of emotions did you feel?

It was a fabulous experience - playing a beautiful music in that beautiful theatre in the city which is so much associated with violin ! The great Stradivari worked there!
I think that my violin, despite being made in another Italian town in the year 1783 by Tommaso Balestrieri from the Goh collection, felt pretty much at home though 

How was working with Giovanni?

It was fantastic. Maestro is an incredibly inspiring person, I appreciated every minute working with him, he is such a sensitive musician, feeling each note and letting the music go through his heart. He is incredibly friendly and a sunny person, and it is truly an amazing feeling working with him.

Giovanni's audience welcomed you with great warmth and enthusiasm, there were many young people in the theater, did you expect that?

When I walked on stage I felt a very friendly and warm atmosphere in the theater, it was different from a typical classical concert, and it is also much more fun and a joy to play music in this kind of context.
Of course, it's great that so many young people come to Giovanni Allevi's concerts. And I think his art is loved by people of all ages as the language of his music is universal.

Let's talk about the Giovanni's Concerto in F minor for Violin and Orchestra. Your execution was very exciting and fascinating. What are the points that you like most?

The concerto is very virtuosic, it's a very emotional music, it's about strong rhythmical context and extremely melodic lines. In fact, during the concert I saw some people in the first raw crying, touched by the music and the beautiful melodies. It is full of contrasts, the music changes its mood all the time. It has also a very interesting technical material to work on as a violinist and it has a fantastic atmosphere.

You performed at La Scala the Čajkovskij Concerto, now the one composed by Giovanni Allevi. If we want to make a comparison, are there elements in common between the two concertos? What are the differences instead?

The music of both composers is about passion, it's about feelings, about emotions, it's about showing the different possibilities of the instrument, to make it sing and to show the technical abilities of a performer. Of course, they are very different, different epochs, different styles. But the language of a beautiful melodic music is universal, and that makes us love these concertos.


----------



## PaulmtAZ (Jan 17, 2014)

Can't wait to listen to this


----------



## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

I can think of only one word to describe this violin concerto. It starts with "r" and ends with "ubbish".

Come to think of it, I can think of quite some more. Unimaginative, dull, run-of-the-mill, incoherent, boring... anybody who has acquaintances in the music world knows at least a dozen people who would be capable of writing a piece like this, if only they'd stoop so low. And it's not because the world is full of geniuses: it's because it doesn't take a genius to compose this worn-out nonsense.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

GiulioCesare said:


> I can think of only one word to describe this violin concerto. It starts with "r" and ends with "ubbish".
> 
> Come to think of it, I can think of quite some more. Unimaginative, dull, run-of-the-mill, incoherent, boring... anybody who has acquaintances in the music world knows at least a dozen people who would be capable of writing a piece like this, if only they'd stoop so low. And it's not because the world is full of geniuses: it's because it doesn't take a genius to compose this worn-out nonsense.


While I wouldn't place this work high on my list of violin concertos and probably wouldn't think of ever buying a recording, I did enjoy the piece. Several TC members whose musical knowledge I respect have suggested that this work is not good, and I accept that judgment as having merit.

The work may in fact be run-of-the-mill and possibly incoherent in a music theory sense, and obviously anyone could find it dull and boring. Clearly it's music not for you. But I'm curious as to why you call it nonsense. I assume you think that Allevi either is purposely writing "popular" music below his ability or that he has little real talent. Why would either lead to nonsense music?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ramako said:


> In fairness I didn't think it was a masterpiece either. However, the guy is pretty young and I think he has a great deal of potential, particularly if he goes down a road of imbuing his compositions with more intellectual rigour rather than pandering to popular taste. I would be very happy to have written that myself. I would also be pushing myself further.
> 
> However, as I intimated in my previous post, I think this works very well in comparison with the clunky structure of Jenkins' Palladio, for example, and I think the cliches are better incorporated. It lacks thematic continuity among other things, as well as being a bit over violin-centric, but I think it coheres well and manages to be obviously modern, and actually probably precisely in step with the times as far as classical music is concerned.


Even with the youngest of composers, or relatively new composers, "intellectual vigor." if they had any at all, would be clearly evident -- to some noticeable degree -- in their earliest of post-student works. There is none here, that is not part of this composer's native equipment nor I believe anything close to being a part of his innate personal make-up. I expect no radical change in regard to intellectual vigor from this one.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

GiulioCesare said:


> I can think of only one word to describe this violin concerto. It starts with "r" and ends with "ubbish".
> 
> Come to think of it, I can think of quite some more. Unimaginative, dull, run-of-the-mill, incoherent, boring... anybody who has acquaintances in the music world knows at least a dozen people who would be capable of writing a piece like this, if only they'd stoop so low. And it's not because the world is full of geniuses: it's because it doesn't take a genius to compose this worn-out nonsense.


I must conclude that you have written a violin concerto more beautiful than that of Allevi.
In this case I would be very curious to hear your concerto!!!


----------



## MrTortoise (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks for posting this, listened to the first movement and it made me smile. It reminded me of some of Moriconne's work.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> I must conclude that you have written a violin concerto more beautiful than that of Allevi.
> In this case I would be very curious to hear your concerto!!!


This is always a sort of last-ditch cheapest of cheap shots in these arguments of tastes. I'm sure you've said positive and negative things about music while very possibly having no ability to write it yourself, and without any qualms about that lack while opening your mouth.

Calling a piece beautiful or a masterpiece? Wait for the comeback the next time you do, "How would you know since you don't compose at all?!"

Yeah, right, as a comment or counter foil "Let's hear your masterpiece," is a nyah-nyah call, kid stuff.


----------



## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

Just gave this concerto a listen. While it was no masterpiece, I thought it was quite nice. I will probably seek out a recording and give it a listen once in a while to change things up.


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I was missing this thread. 

I wouldn't have ever expected to find Giovanni Allevi here.

He is a very "cunning" Italian composer of "contemporary classical music" (so he uses to call his music) and he has a huge fans' base, at least in Italy.

His music is nice and listenable, but imo this thread and everything else regarding Allevi should be moved to the non-classical music forum, easy-listening section.


----------



## Silkenblack (Apr 12, 2013)

Keep Allevi here; he's asking to get exposed. I think I understand why this guy is pushing the buttons. Allevi is just that good that he can't be judged irresponsible for his actions.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

mmsbls said:


> When you say that you can tell "it was written recently", do you mean you can tell from listening to it or from reading posts that inform you when it was written? If you meant from listening, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "modern". If you can tell something was written recently, presumably no one wrote like that before. That seems to imply modern, but maybe you have a specific definition of "modern" that is different from mine.
> 
> Are you distinguishing between the modern era and contemporary music?


.
I mean written recently as just that, now, contemporary without any connection to either "Modern or Contemporary" as musical eras. That determination upon one incomplete hearing. The fact it is quite referential to the past in a generic way, its overall vocabulary, pretty much screamed "mixed styles film score" to me within moments after the first movement started.

Fast forwarding through the rest of the three movements was due to a similarity of that just above, and I knew the work was at least of a quality consistent within itself by the first few measures in to each movement -- there would be no surprises for me worth listening through.

It is rather like recognizing a local / neighborhood accent when someone speaks, or hearing a bit of very temporally current slang or popular parlance, and then, that you've heard the general commentary because the topic is also on the streets, repeated in similar ways on streetcorners... already familiar and predictable.

The OP did explain they used the word _modern / modernity_ to mean current and popular, nothing in reference to terms ot Music's name historic eras, including our own _contemporary_.


----------



## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

PeterW said:


> I must conclude that you have written a violin concerto more beautiful than that of Allevi.
> In this case I would be very curious to hear your concerto!!!


Devastating "argument". You swayed me.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Silkenblack said:


> Keep Allevi here; he's asking to get exposed. I think I understand why this guy is pushing the buttons. Allevi is just that good that he can't be judged irresponsible for his actions.


If the composer himself had posted the work here, that would be an interesting debate as to whether his work belongs in this or that category. I would, however, give it no more weight than I do a perhaps very keen fan posting the same piece.

I think this concerto is categorically, in toto, belonging in the film music or pops or easy listening category, and that the fan who posted it thinks differently, who clearly cannot hear the difference between the Allevi and dozens of other contemporary classical pieces, wants to bump it up because he likes it. Perhaps that fan really believes 'this is the way contemporary classical should go.'

The work is a bit larger, a bit more grandiose, but on a par with the well-crafted popular works of Lodovico Einaudi -- no less, no more.

To put it on the scale of "classical" is like offering listeners three kernels of popcorn (one per movement) / or _pop corn_ vs. a three-course full meal of much greater nutritional value.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm just a fan of Allevi, as I believe there are many. For me, this violin concerto is very nice, but do not pretend that my opinion is shared.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

GiulioCesare said:


> Devastating "argument". You swayed me.


devastating but necessary and inevitable...


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> devastating but necessary and inevitable...


I am really thinking you think this concerto quite fine, deeply important, and 'all that,'

I think it is well done enough and is of a 'contemporary' sort of pops classical category. I would hope that and its popularity within the spectrum of audience for it should be enough to have you happy with it -- without your having to throw the toys out of the pram any time you read opinions on the piece which differ from yours -- differing opinions which I think you would expect in posting the piece on a discussion forum.

And, by the way, _where is your beautiful and popular violin concerto as certifiable proof that your opinion of this piece is at all valid???_


----------



## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

PeterW said:


> devastating but necessary and inevitable...


All around the world, millions of football fans are reading this post right now, their lives turned upside down, their dreams shattered, their daily leisure activities rendered void and pointless. "Who am I", they quietly ask themselves, "to question the rumour that Arsenal intends to sign that young Korean prospect? I do think he's not cut out to be a Premier League player, and am convinced he'll fail like others before him have. But after all, I couldn't play at Arsenal either... ask the chaps at the pub. They know all too well I'm bloody hopeless on the pitch."


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

GiulioCesare said:


> All around the world, millions of football fans are reading this post right now, their lives turned upside down, their dreams shattered, their daily leisure activities rendered void and pointless. "Who am I", they quietly ask themselves, "to question the rumour that Arsenal intends to sign that young Korean prospect? I do think he's not cut out to be a Premier League player, and am convinced he'll fail like others before him have. But after all, I couldn't play at Arsenal either... ask the chaps at the pub. They know all too well I'm bloody hopeless on the pitch."


Your story is very cute, and I agree with what you say. 
But I'm just a fan, and I do not think it's a fault. 
If this violin concerto does not like you, or bother you for any reason, you can ignore it, do not you think?


----------



## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

PeterW said:


> Your story is very cute, and I agree with what you say.
> But I'm just a fan, and I do not think it's a fault.
> If this violin concerto does not like you, or bother you for any reason, you can ignore it, do not you think?


I was very content ignoring it until you opened a thread on a discussion board asking for our opinion about it:



> How are you?
> In Italy it is finished at the top of the charts of the best selling records,
> A CONTEMPORARY CONCERT FOR VIOLIN AND ORCHESTRA!!
> 
> ...


Apparently, you forgot to add: "by the way, when you say what you think about it, don't say you don't like it".


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

GiulioCesare said:


> I was very content ignoring it until you opened a thread on a discussion board asking for our opinion about it:
> 
> Apparently, you forgot to add: "by the way, when you say what you think about it, don't say you don't like it".


It's just a bad road to go down. I can tell _Twilight_ fans what's wrong with _Twilight_, but I don't do it because no one likes that. Later, when I take over the world, their wealth and social status will depend on their ability to identify the flaws in _Twilight_, but we'll both have to wait. (To be fair, it looks to me like this concerto is more closely analogous to something like Coelho's _The Alchemist_. I mean, it can't bear much analysis, but at least it's not targeting adolescents, and it's minimally competent.)


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

What I meant is that in Italy, the presentation of this violin concerto has been a major cultural problem, a riddle, which is generating a myriad of discussions. I did not come here to advertise, nor to know whether you like it or not. Allevi was attacked by an elderly Italian violinist and authoritative, he responded by composing his Violin Concerto, and this story has impressed the audience. At this time there is an ongoing war between the supporters of contemporary music as a genre, and contemporary music in the sense current / time. I would like to know what you think.


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

PeterW said:


> I would like to know what you think.


Hmmm. I wonder. I guess the question I would have after reading through this thread is why would you like to know? And the answer that comes to me, after reading through this thread, is so that you can reject all the thoughts from others.

But what if no one will play?


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

No one can know. Some young violinists of international level have already executed it, and said wonderful things. But the official criticism is against. I respect the opinion of others, but I also trust my emotions, and when the music fails to move me, she went to sign. Or not?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> What I meant is that in Italy, the presentation of this violin concerto has been a major cultural problem, a riddle, which is generating a myriad of discussions. I did not come here to advertise, nor to know whether you like it or not. Allevi was attacked by an elderly Italian violinist and authoritative, he responded by composing his Violin Concerto, and this story has impressed the audience. At this time there is an ongoing war between the supporters of contemporary music as a genre, and contemporary music in the sense current / time. I would like to know what you think.


I think there will always be a division, not so much between audiences who both understand these things and do not wish for one more populist sort of style to 'win' over classical, or vice verso. There is room for both, but there seems to be a mass inverse snobbery from many who are fans of the more popular sort of symphonic musics -- they want it recognized on the same level of 'weight' and 'importance' as, say, Beethoven, Berg or Stravinsky, each who wrote one violin concerto, each considered by many classical fans as well as 'authorities' as masterpieces of the literature.

Why even _hope or try_ to push the Allevi, or Karl Jenkins, into the same position of status as those 'heavyweight' great composers, when they both fill a very 'contemporary' need for the sort of music those fans of the Allevi seem to care for or prefer?

Andrew Lloyd Weber made a comment (very irritated about a situation regarding his reputation and the classical critics) and 'complained" in this interview -- or maybe it was a letter to the editor), saying the classical music critics did not take his music seriously.

One critic commented retorted, in print, "When Mr. Weber writes a serious classical piece, we will seriously consider it."


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

Allevi went over this argument. In his interviews repeated hundreds of times that he does not want any recognition of status. The composer must think only about the music. He also repeated that accepts freedom of criticism. Is the academic world that fails to accept his presence. In Italy things have happened that it's hard to believe, during a concert of Allevi, a group of people to a local conservatory prevented the public from entering the theater!


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

Here's some Italian music.

Contemporary.






Well, a little on the oldish side by now. But still. 1989 isn't all _that_ long ago.


----------



## Silkenblack (Apr 12, 2013)

What puzzles me is Allevi's musical "soft spots" where he quickly clings. After a couple of inane notes, he steers the melody line to the most mundane, dustiest cavity. No mistake here; he means it. Is there some kind of Oedipus complex going on, like he is trying to impress his grandmother?


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

As a classical composer Allevi surely isn't top notch, but when I hear that he has such a large base of listeners in his country, isn't it positive? After all, this is music of some considerable quality (in comparison with most of other popular stuff) and if people who are not into classical music are listening to this instead of the usual pop/rock kind of thing, I think it's simply great. Of course, there is a degree of snobbery in all classical geezers (in some it's dominating, as this thread proves) that makes them rant about how Allevi isn't entirely serious classical composer. I think it's more or less obvious for every person with basic insight into the subject and when I see people carrying out heavy cannons against reverse notion, I find it pretty pathetic. It's almost like seeing conservatory professor writting treatise of fifty pages in lenght to convince some 15-years old metalhead that Dream Theater isn't classical music. Makes you look ridiculous. 

The only problem lies in the fact that, as the provided links claim, the man has been assigned as composer to serious musical institution. It may be wrong, but these days opera houses and philharmonics make so many outrageous decisions that Allevi's post can pass as minor outrage.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

Do not turn around. The real issue is: who decides what music is a work of art? The opinion of the critic? Or the success of the public? I would be inclined also to the first, but ... I also have to recognize that the whole repertoire of music that has become eternal, have one common characteristic: it speaks to people's hearts.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

PeterW said:


> Do not turn around. The real issue is: who decides what music is a work of art? The opinion of the critic? Or the success of the public? I would be inclined also to the first, but ... I also have to recognize that the whole repertoire of music that has become eternal, have one common characteristic: it speaks to people's hearts.


I wouldn't ask who decides what music is a work of art (nor would I say anything about "eternal"), but my way of asking nearly the same question would be, who decides which works are great? Or, a nearly synonymous question (referencing another hot discussion here), who determines the content of the canon?

This question has a definite answer: primarily the artists and scholars of the present time, and to some degree everyone in our time.

That means, that our canons (in music, literature, film, art, whatever) are being constructed right now, somewhat by all of us but mostly by the artists and scholars of our time. They/we are reviewing all of the works of the past and praising some and drawing our attention to them, perhaps identifying them as influences or inspirations, and in so doing they/we make the canon.

The canons of the future will depend not on us or the people of our time, but of the people (especially the artists and scholars) of that time, just as the canons of the past were constructed by the people of the past. So of course these judgements are not eternal.

Discussions like this one about Allevi are happening all over the world all the time, sometimes about Allevi but of course most of the time they are about Shakespeare and Beethoven and Salinger and Bernstein, and Sigur Ros, and Godspeed You Black Emperor, and Zappa, and Zelenka, and Justin Bieber, and Hans Ignaz Franz von Biber, and Pink Floyd, and Merzbow, and Massenet, and Gounod.... Whether the works in question garner more or less respect depends on whether the advocates for those works manage to persuade their audience. (Recently this forum had a few particularly successful advocates for Zappa. I'd say, they didn't persuade everyone - and of course that never happens - but they made converts. That's the process at work.)

Within those discussions, "speaking to people's hearts" might matter a great deal - but whose hearts? "Only God can make a tree," seems to touch more hearts than "April is the cruelest month." The public of the present might not recognize either line, but for the most part they don't decide what is taught in literature classes, and the people who do make most of those decisions strongly prefer "April is the cruelest month."

Granted, some of those artists and scholars - maybe even most of them - are just following the tradition of praising what the experts/snobs of the past have praised, and rejecting what was rejected in the past, without any greater reason. (If you're feeling uncharitable, perhaps you would detect something like that in some of the comments in the Lang Lang thread. You would absolutely detect it in a typical discussion of Shakespeare. "The women come and go, talking of Michelangelo.") But at least a few of the artists and scholars and even a few members of the general public really do think deeply about these things, striving to be independent and to make their own judgements and to have very good reasons for doing so, and these few are often even the most influential within their own circles. It's not _entirely_ a game of "be cool by liking what the cool people like."


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I am sorry PeterW, but Allevi's music doesn't speak to my heart, and to the heart of many others as well.

As I have already wrote in a former post, he is just a good promoter of himself (this thread is quite an evidence of this...). His very early works for piano were not bad at all (something in between Keith Jarret and Ludovico Einaudi) but then he realized how to make much more money with music, and now the mediocrity of his works is directly proportional to all efforts he makes to reach the top of the charts. He is now a sort of contemporary Salieri.
IMO He won't be remembered.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

GioCar said:


> He is now a sort of contemporary Salieri.


That's very unkind to Antonio...


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> Is the academic world that fails to accept his presence.


Like Andrew Lloyd Weber not being recognized by the classical critics in the English press -- why should they speak of him or his music at all unless he is writing earnest classical music?



PeterW said:


> In Italy... during a concert of Allevi, a group of people from a local conservatory prevented the public from entering the theater!


Why did the concert goers not call the police? Anyone blocking your right of way on a public way (the street) or from entering a venue for which you are holding a ticket is a matter for the police.

I find it hard to believe that a good number of people attending that concert did not each get on their cell phones and call the police.

At the least, the protesters should have let anyone pass; if they had formed a lock-arms physical blockade, time for the police... simple.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aramis said:


> As a classical composer Allevi surely isn't top notch, but when I hear that he has such a large base of listeners in his country, isn't it positive? After all, this is music of some considerable quality (in comparison with most of other popular stuff) and if people who are not into classical music are listening to this instead of the usual pop/rock kind of thing, I think it's simply great. Of course, there is a degree of snobbery in all classical geezers (in some it's dominating, as this thread proves) that makes them rant about how Allevi isn't entirely serious classical composer. I think it's more or less obvious for every person with basic insight into the subject and when I see people carrying out heavy cannons against reverse notion, I find it pretty pathetic. It's almost like seeing conservatory professor writting treatise of fifty pages in lenght to convince some 15-years old metalhead that Dream Theater isn't classical music. Makes you look ridiculous.
> 
> The only problem lies in the fact that, as the provided links claim, the man has been assigned as composer to serious musical institution. It may be wrong, but these days opera houses and philharmonics make so many outrageous decisions that Allevi's post can pass as minor outrage.


MacDonald's hamburgers are 100% pure beef, isn't their popularity a good thing, meaning many in the population will now be better set for that next step to gourmet dining? :lol:....:lol:....:lol:....


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> What I meant is that in Italy, the presentation of this violin concerto has been a major cultural problem, a riddle, which is generating a myriad of discussions. I did not come here to advertise, nor to know whether you like it or not. Allevi was attacked by an elderly Italian violinist and authoritative, he responded by composing his Violin Concerto, and this story has impressed the audience. At this time there is an ongoing war between the supporters of contemporary music as a genre, and contemporary music in the sense current / time. I would like to know what you think.


A Ha! An internecine cultural war! 
*Music students block entry to popular music concert: Film at Eleven!*

Ask yourself if you would want Italian culture to be more represented by Allevi and Lodovico Einaudi than by the likes of Luigi Dallapiccola or Luciano Berio, which is rather like asking if you would like Italy to be better known for making loose and baggy athletic clothing out of synthetic materials or exquisitely crafted Haute couture made of finer fabrics.

I believe you are a political victim in that _you believe you have to take sides_, an "either / or" black and white decision of loyalties between either popular contemporary music or contemporary classical art music. I think it both sad and silly that you seem to think you have to sign up for this sort of 'war' at all!


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

PetrB said:


> MacDonald's hamburgers are 100% pure beef, .


I wouldn't bet on this...


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GioCar said:


> I wouldn't bet on this...


I'm not a betting kinda guy. The only "gambles" I take are jaywalking busy urban avenues, and I would say about all the decisions I make involving the music I write, since each note is groping about in a dark room I've never been in before when I begin any piece


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

science said:


> I wouldn't ask who decides what music is a work of art (nor would I say anything about "eternal"), but my way of asking nearly the same question would be, who decides which works are great? Or, a nearly synonymous question (referencing another hot discussion here), who determines the content of the canon?
> 
> This question has a definite answer: primarily the artists and scholars of the present time, and to some degree everyone in our time.
> 
> ...


Very very interesting. So, for you, would be artists and scholars to establish the value of a work of art. But often, scholars are missed artists, and artists have a great difficulty to accept the public success of a colleague....


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sometimes You got to do what you got to do.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> Very very interesting. So, for you, would be artists and scholars to establish the value of a work of art. But often, scholars are missed artists, and artists have a great difficulty to accept the public success of a colleague....


How about the next tier? the performers -- really THE GATEWAY TO A WORK BEING ACCEPTED FOR PERFORMANCE -- who find a work of some interest, value, and would not perform it if they thought it was
1.) not innately worthwhile
2.) going to repel their audiences away to the point where the musicians ended up out of a job.

Scholars are scholars ~ artists are artists; once in far less than a blue moon, both qualities are found in one person.

Small minded artists may have difficulty accepting the success of a colleague; most don't because they are so driven and concerned with their own path and style that they recognize that work which has the public success is completely unlike their own work. They may wish for a similar success, but they would not want that success if it was not for work the nature of which they believe in. Ergo, all those quips that hard-core classical art music fans are envious of, say Allevi's success, etc. are completely mistaken. Those artists would rather work in obscurity and with less financial gain than be known for the kind of works Allevi has been successful with, simply because it is not the sort of work they are personally interested in.

Whether the same is true of the Allevis of the world perhaps wishing they were better known for 'higher caliber works of art' (recall the Andrew Lloyd Weber story where he wished to be regarded more highly by the classical community while writing west end show music is more questionable and likely, because like it or not, most everyone, academicians to the great public, rank 'high art,' as giving its maker the highest prestige.

Please do not mistake for one moment "great success with the public" as anywhere near a constant indicator of what is finest. I'm sure the various works of Lodovico Einaudi and film composer John Williams are each far more widely popular than the operas of Verdi or Puccini.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Aramis said:


> As a classical composer Allevi surely isn't top notch, but when I hear that he has such a large base of listeners in his country, isn't it positive? *After all, this is music of some considerable quality (in comparison with most of other popular stuff) and if people who are not into classical music are listening to this instead of the usual pop/rock kind of thing, I think it's simply great. Of course, there is a degree of snobbery in all classical geezers (in some it's dominating, as this thread proves) that makes them rant about how Allevi isn't entirely serious classical composer.* I think it's more or less obvious for every person with basic insight into the subject and when I see people carrying out heavy cannons against reverse notion, I find it pretty pathetic. It's almost like seeing conservatory professor writting treatise of fifty pages in lenght to convince some 15-years old metalhead that Dream Theater isn't classical music. Makes you look ridiculous.
> 
> The only problem lies in the fact that, as the provided links claim, the man has been assigned as composer to serious musical institution. It may be wrong, but these days opera houses and philharmonics make so many outrageous decisions that Allevi's post can pass as minor outrage.


I agree with a lot of your post but doesn't the statement I made bold display the very snobbery it seeks to criticise?
Why is it 'great' that people would listen to Allevi over pop/rock? Apart from the obvious fact that it is great for Allevi of course.


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Petwhac said:


> Why is it 'great' that people would listen to Allevi over pop/rock? Apart from the obvious fact that it is great for Allevi of course.


Simply because people choosing 30 minutes of violin music over pop album most likely have some higher aims as listeners than those who would stick to Nightwish or Lady Gaga album. I do see it as highly positive, a sign of people being drawn to something better - even if for classical music listener it doesn't seem "better". Of course, I can't be sure about how exactly it looks like - what author of this thread wrote about Allevi's popularity is imprecise. But if Italian teenagers indeed tend to listen to Allevi's concerto where American teenager would listen to album by some contemporary pop performer, such as those mentioned, I think there is nothing to do but rejoyce (unless you're American). If thinking this way is snobbery, I'm undeniably a snob.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Simply because people choosing 30 minutes of violin music over pop album most likely have some higher aims as listeners than those who would stick to Nightwish or Lady Gaga album. I do see it as highly positive, a sign of people being drawn to something better - even if for classical music listener it doesn't seem "better". Of course, I can't be sure about how exactly it looks like - what author of this thread wrote about Allevi's popularity is imprecise. But if Italian teenagers indeed tend to listen to Allevi's concerto where American teenager would listen to album by some contemporary pop performer, such as those mentioned, I think there is nothing to do but rejoyce (unless you're American). If thinking this way is snobbery, I'm undeniably a snob.


Higher aims? Better?......... Really?

As someone who has spent much time in Italy and knows several Italian teenagers I can tell you their taste in music is no better or worse than their American counterparts.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Of course! Kids are kids. No matter where they come from they seem to love American pop music.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> Higher aims? Better?......... Really?
> 
> As someone who has spent much time in Italy and knows several Italian teenagers I can tell you their taste in music is no better or worse than their American counterparts.


Gli Italiani like Allevi, the Americans think John Williams is awesome


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

PeterW said:


> How are you?
> In Italy it is finished at the top of the charts of the best selling records,
> A CONTEMPORARY CONCERT FOR VIOLIN AND ORCHESTRA!!
> 
> ...


I enjoyed it. There should be more newly composed music like this, one that listeners accept and not be alienated by, and still be a thoroughly well composed pcontemporary art music.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Yes, it doesn't alienate in the way that those poems on the inside of greeting cards don't alienate.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

A bit of history: the Paganini Competition has commissioned this Violin Concerto. As soon as the news spread, even before a single note was played, the Italian music conservatories have made a media pressure on newspapers to prevent the insertion of the Concerto in the Competition (that's instead normal for other unknown contemporary composers).
Result n.1: the Concerto has been removed from the Paganini Competition. 
Result n.2: the first execution at the Teatro Carlo Felice in Genova, and all the other concerts in other major and great theaters, have achieved an outstanding success, with a standing ovation and the soloist who signed autographs for an hour.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> Yes, it doesn't alienate in the way that those poems on the inside of greeting cards don't alienate.


Ooh, that smarts


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Don't knock it. There's money in creating those mundane poems for greeting cards.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Don't knock it. There's money in creating those mundane poems for greeting cards.


I'm not knocking it.

Those poems express a sentiment well. But the writers of them do not worry that their poems are not held up along side Keats, ee cummings, Milton, Parker or Owen etc.

The Allevi also expresses a sentiment well. He has undoubted ability. It's just that his music does not stand comparison with the great works of 20th or any other century's 'classical' music.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Petwhac said:


> I'm not knocking it.
> 
> Those poems express a sentiment well. But the writers of them do not worry that their poems are not held up along side Keats, ee cummings, Milton, Parker or Owen etc.
> 
> The Allevi also expresses a sentiment well. He has undoubted ability. It's just that his music does not stand comparison with the great works of 20th or any other century's 'classical' music.


I don't know if the writers' opinions of their poems matters as much as their audience's / costumer's opinion, and their opinion seems to be that it's much better than all that book poetry.

Just as lawn art is popular.

Just as Thomas Kinkaid's art is popular.

Just as Warner Sallman's art is popular.

Just as American Idol is popular.

Just as Harlequin romances are popular.

And so on.

People in general out there just don't often like what we think they're supposed to like, and sometimes we resent that, and sometimes we even define our tastes in semi-conscious opposition to theirs, and everyone knows exactly how and why it all lines up like this.

Yes, we're probably right in some sense and they're probably wrong in some sense, but that's subtle and hard to prove. Easy to prove is that we all just disagree.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Petwhac said:


> I'm not knocking it.
> 
> Those poems express a sentiment well. But the writers of them do not worry that their poems are not held up along side Keats, ee cummings, Milton, Parker or Owen etc.
> 
> The Allevi also expresses a sentiment well. He has undoubted ability. It's just that his music does not stand comparison with the great works of 20th or any other century's 'classical' music.


Okay. I missed my calling. Instead of posting here, I could have been writing sentimental greeting card poems.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Okay. I missed my calling. Instead of posting here, I could have been writing sentimental greeting card poems.


How hard can it be?


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Petwhac said:


> How hard can it be?


Just have a girlfriend or wife sit there for a while, write a few down, have them read each, watch for tears. Submit for gold.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Just have a girlfriend or wife sit there for a while, write a few down, have them read each, watch for tears. Submit for gold.


_*That is sexist! *_


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> _*That is sexist! *[/
> 
> Okay. Have any sensitive person to read your efforts. My mistake! Sorry! Didn't mean to offend anyone._


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

science said:


> I don't know if the writers' opinions of their poems matters as much as their audience's / costumer's opinion, and their opinion seems to be that it's much better than all that book poetry.
> 
> Just as lawn art is popular.
> 
> ...


Not sure of the point you are making with relation to the concerto in question.

Things that are popular are...... popular. Liberace was popular but it doesn't mean he's comparable with Pollini. And neither am I knocking Liberace. He did what he did and had a devoted following. If some of his followers declared that he was the greatest pianist of the 20th century they'd be wrong.
Allevi, Einaudi et al do what they do and have their devoted followers. They're very good at what they do and they bring pleasure to millions. Nothing to knock there. But just because they or their fans might want them recognised as today's equivalent of Mozart or Tchaikovsky (if indeed they really do want that), doesn't me the musical 'establishment' has to agree. 
We can't have our cake and eat it.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

You said 'commissioned' and young composer. Does the Paganini competition then commission a new work as part of the competition for the violinists? It is a typical requirement of performance competitions that the contestants are given a new and unpublished work they must learn (quickly) and perform. Was the Allevi commissioned in such a capacity, then?

I can see the uproar, though. Money for the "less popular" young composer is not so easy to come by as it happened for the already popularly successful Allevi, and he has done nothing, I think, to merit considering him as other than a talented composer of popular / populist music.

Then, too, where does the money for commissions for the Paganini competition come from? Are significant amounts of the Italian people's tax money used to subsidize a lot of art, and contemporary artists?

One way or another, there could be good argument that no financially successful composer, popular or otherwise, needs to take money generally intended to support the less known and less established young composer.

ADD P.s. One very deliberate function of having an unpublished contemporary work as requirement in a competition is so the contestants can clearly demonstrate their ability to learn and perform music which is no longer in the older techniques and vocabulary, both pitch content, harmony, rhythm as well as 'just technique.' Young performers must be able to negotiate this newer (post 1975) musical vocabulary; they will run across it constantly as performers in orchestras or as soloists. This too, is one very good reason to have rejected the Allevi. It may make high enough technical demands of the player, but the harmony and configuration are all very 'traditional' i.e. pre 1975. The piece makes no demands in negotiating the newer means of vocabulary, playing techniques, rhythms which are now commonplace in much contemporary classical music.


----------



## PeterW (Feb 8, 2010)

Very good! Anything that pleases the general public is not art. So Mozart, Tchaikovsky are not true artists because they write music that comes to all ...


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

It is music like the piece discussed that will open the door to many in the general public as far as newly composed contemporary music is concerned. Good for them for doing so, without any of the highbrow "not good enough/not bizzare enough" avant-garde mentality.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

PeterW said:


> Very good! Anything that pleases the general public is not art. So Mozart, Tchaikovsky are not true artists because they write music that comes to all ...


This statement fails to meet any and all requisites of "Logic."

I think you missed the part where there is a Popular Art, and what has for several centuries at least been called Fine Art.

Mozart and Tchaikovsky, by wide general consensus, are Fine Art. 
The Allevi, also by wide general consensus, is Popular Art: I would think it is well past time to get over that and move on.


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> It is music like the piece discussed that will open the door to many in the general public as far as newly composed contemporary music is concerned. Good for them for doing so, without any of the highbrow "not good enough/not bizzare enough" avant-garde mentality.


I don't think so.

Speaking as someone who is not a great fan of 'avant-garde' music I do not believe that the Allevi is very much more than notated and orchestrated pop music. 
The musicals of Sondheim, although they never claim to be anything other than what they are, contain music of a far superior level of invention, accomplishment and intricacy.


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

petrb said:


> ...i would think it is well past time to get over that and move on.


yes yes yes yes!!


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

GioCar said:


> yes yes yes yes!!


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Well, not really like that but.... almost


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> The musicals of Sondheim, although they never claim to be anything other than what they are, contain music of a far superior level of invention, accomplishment and intricacy.


Proud student of Milton Babbitt...


----------



## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Oklahoma it ain't.........






A brilliant production.


----------



## lupinix (Jan 9, 2014)

lol is this considered classical nowadays? it sounds a bit like mingling film score-music with some new age (and maybe latin popmusic?) and a lot of irritating baroquelike things that make me nervous and seem to have no value at all except that people "recognize" a lot in it in a very very very literal way, to me it sounds as if he haven't wrote a single note himself....


----------



## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

101 posts are enough for Allevi.

Mine is the 102nd... hopefully the last one!

(PeterW...okay?)


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GioCar said:


> 101 posts are enough for Allevi.
> 
> Mine is the 102nd... hopefully the last one!
> 
> (PeterW...okay?)


Sorry, one more, to say to that....
*YEA!*


----------

