# Scott Joplin



## Bach

LAD. Discuss.


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## Tapkaara

I like his piano stuff. Catchy.


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## Aramis

I liked what I've heard, but it didn't push me to explore his music. So I guess I'm neutral.


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## Rachovsky

I play a fierce Maple Leaf Rag on piano, haha. It's very repetitive though so I tend to stay away from it anymore.


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## JoeGreen

darn, Bach you beat me to it.

Has anyone heard any of his Treemonisha? very interesting.


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## Chi_townPhilly

I'd had this on my mind for a few months... and this thread seems like as good a place as any to share it...

Some 3½ decades after the release of the film _The Sting_ (which popularized 'The Entertainer'), another Joplin tune played a big part in a major Hollywood film. _The Curious Case of Benjamin Button_ had a down-tempo non-Rag Joplin piece reminiscent of 'Solace.' I recognized the passage as Joplin, but didn't recall which work it was.

It turns out that it was 'Bethena Waltz.' Obviously, Joplin is best-known for his 'rags,' but he occasionally composed waltzes- another example being the 'Crush Collision Waltz.'

Among rags, in addition to the extremely famous 'Maple Leaf Rag' with its trio of prominent melodies unfolded in not much more than 2 minutes of time, my favorites (in order) include 'Pineapple Rag,' 'Elite Syncopations,' 'The Rag Time Dance' and 'Gladiolus Rag.'


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## Bach

JoeGreen said:


> darn, Bach you beat me to it.
> 
> Has anyone heard any of his Treemonisha? very interesting.


No, but I've been looking for a recording - hasn't the orchestrated version been lost?


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## JoeGreen

Yes the orchestration has been lost.

the recording I have is this one, with Orchestration by Gunther Schuller










there have also been orchestrations by Thomas J. Anderson, I'm not sure which one was performed at it's world premier in 1972

the one I'm looking for and forward to hearing, is the one with orchestrations by Rick Benjamin.


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## Bach

What's it like as a work?


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## JoeGreen

I'll get back to you on that once I give it a good re-listening to it. It's been a while.


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## Albert7

Your works on a harpsichord absolutely rocks to me!


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## sammusic93

Sad to see this amazing man not getting the recognition he deserves. 

I was introduced to the music of Joplin a few years ago through a friend. She played me the first strain of 'Maple Leaf Rag' and I immediately brought the sheet music and learned it. I wanted to explore his music further and started to acquaint myself with his famous 'Classic Rags' such as 'The Entertainer' and 'Elite Syncopations'. At this time, I thought his Piano Rags were wonderful but didn't really see them as 'serious' compositions, that was until I stumbled upon 'Bethena - A Concert Waltz'. To this date it remains one of my all time favorites and it introduced me to a whole other side of Joplin. People who are unfamiliar with his music associate him with pianists bashing out Maple Leaf Rag at ridiculous speeds with swung rhythms and virtuosic ad-libs - this is not Joplin; he was a Classically trained Musician and it is known he studied the works of the great masters in his youth. He wanted his 'Rags' (Joplin himself disliked the term) to be treated the same as the great masterworks, to be played in strict time and for pianists to follow the music exactly as written. The bombastic break-neck renditions of his compositions you hear today are not what Joplin intended.

Outside of his 'Classic'/well-known Rags is a vast collection of beautiful, melodic and at times almost Romantic music. And if you take the time to read up on his life (I recommend Edward A. Berlin's "King of Ragtime: Scott Joplin and his era") - it makes his music even more poignant. He was very much a struggling composer once the Maple Leaf's popularity began to wain and by the time he passed his music was mostly forgotten. He tried in vain to be taken seriously as a Classical composer and incorporate elements of Afro-American music/melodies into his compositions, he even composed two Operas (one lost, the other only a piano reduction remains) and allegedly was working on Orchestral works which were sadly lost after his death. 

Anybody who is unfamiliar with his work, I urge you to listen to Joshua Rifkin's recordings of some of his works including 'Gladiolus Rag', 'Fig Leaf Rag' and 'Euphonic Sounds'. His music is so melodic and much darker than people expect. He was truly a genius and deserves so much more recognition for his work.


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## R3PL4Y

That is too bad that he didn't live longer. Orchestral works by Scott Joplin definitely would have been very interesting.


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## Pugg

sammusic93 said:


> Sad to see this amazing man not getting the recognition he deserves.
> 
> I was introduced to the music of Joplin a few years ago through a friend. She played me the first strain of 'Maple Leaf Rag' and I immediately brought the sheet music and learned it. I wanted to explore his music further and started to acquaint myself with his famous 'Classic Rags' such as 'The Entertainer' and 'Elite Syncopations'. At this time, I thought his Piano Rags were wonderful but didn't really see them as 'serious' compositions, that was until I stumbled upon 'Bethena - A Concert Waltz'. To this date it remains one of my all time favorites and it introduced me to a whole other side of Joplin. People who are unfamiliar with his music associate him with pianists bashing out Maple Leaf Rag at ridiculous speeds with swung rhythms and virtuosic ad-libs - this is not Joplin; he was a Classically trained Musician and it is known he studied the works of the great masters in his youth. He wanted his 'Rags' (Joplin himself disliked the term) to be treated the same as the great masterworks, to be played in strict time and for pianists to follow the music exactly as written. The bombastic break-neck renditions of his compositions you hear today are not what Joplin intended.
> 
> Outside of his 'Classic'/well-known Rags is a vast collection of beautiful, melodic and at times almost Romantic music. And if you take the time to read up on his life (I recommend Edward A. Berlin's "King of Ragtime: Scott Joplin and his era") - it makes his music even more poignant. He was very much a struggling composer once the Maple Leaf's popularity began to wain and by the time he passed his music was mostly forgotten. He tried in vain to be taken seriously as a Classical composer and incorporate elements of Afro-American music/melodies into his compositions, he even composed two Operas (one lost, the other only a piano reduction remains) and allegedly was working on Orchestral works which were sadly lost after his death.
> 
> Anybody who is unfamiliar with his work, I urge you to listen to Joshua Rifkin's recordings of some of his works including 'Gladiolus Rag', 'Fig Leaf Rag' and 'Euphonic Sounds'. His music is so melodic and much darker than people expect. He was truly a genius and deserves so much more recognition for his work.


That how "fame " is working, so you are in then you are out, just like real life.


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## sammusic93

R3PL4Y said:


> That is too bad that he didn't live longer. Orchestral works by Scott Joplin definitely would have been very interesting.


Indeed. 

He was apparently working on an orchestration of 'Stoptime Rag', as well as allegedly a Piano Concerto and a Symphony. All his manuscripts were lost/destroyed after his death.


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## Gordontrek

Playing through his rags on the piano is a sheer delight. Without question the king of ragtime, and the cornerstone of jazz piano. 
I particularly enjoy Maple Leaf, Pineapple Rag, The Entertainer, and The Easy Winners. I have known serious classical pianists who bang on his music, and ragtime in general, for being "uncultured ear-pleasers" and "for the masses." They're doing themselves a disservice, in my opinion.


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## 433

JoeGreen said:


> Yes the orchestration has been lost.
> 
> the recording I have is this one, with Orchestration by Gunther Schuller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there have also been orchestrations by Thomas J. Anderson, I'm not sure which one was performed at it's world premier in 1972
> 
> the one I'm looking for and forward to hearing, is the one with orchestrations by Rick Benjamin.


Sounds good .


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## sammusic93

Gordontrek said:


> Playing through his rags on the piano is a sheer delight. Without question the king of ragtime, and the cornerstone of jazz piano.
> I particularly enjoy Maple Leaf, Pineapple Rag, The Entertainer, and The Easy Winners. I have known serious classical pianists who bang on his music, and ragtime in general, for being "uncultured ear-pleasers" and "for the masses." They're doing themselves a disservice, in my opinion.


Couldn't agree more. 

Of course, some of Joplin's earlier works were written with commercial value in mind (Maple Leaf etc) but his musical language broadened so much as he matured. Treemonisha for example was not commercially valuable, a Ragtime opera at the time it was composed was virtually unsaleable - however he wrote it because of artistic merit. Same goes for some of his later Rags such as "Magnetic Rag", which was self-published which must represent his artistic wishes fully.


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## Bettina

sammusic93 said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> Of course, some of Joplin's earlier works were written with commercial value in mind (Maple Leaf etc) but his musical language broadened so much as he matured. Treemonisha for example was not commercially valuable, a Ragtime opera at the time it was composed was virtually unsaleable - however he wrote it because of artistic merit. Same goes for some of his later Rags such as "Magnetic Rag", which was self-published which must represent his artistic wishes fully.


Yes, I totally agree with your main point regarding Joplin's interest in artistic expression and innovation. Just one small quibble, though--I wouldn't consider Treemonisha to be a ragtime opera. Much of it is based on non-ragtime operatic styles, such as arias and recitatives. The only ragtime sections (as far as I remember) are in the dance scenes.

It is such a good opera with a satisfying blend of different styles! It's a shame that it's not performed more often.


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## sammusic93

Bettina said:


> Yes, I totally agree with your main point regarding Joplin's interest in artistic expression and innovation. Just one small quibble, though--I wouldn't consider Treemonisha to be a ragtime opera. Much of it is based on non-ragtime operatic styles, such as arias and recitatives. The only ragtime sections (as far as I remember) are in the dance scenes.
> 
> It is such a good opera with a satisfying blend of different styles! It's a shame that it's not performed more often.


You are absolutely right, Joplin explicitly said Treemonisha was not a "Ragtime Opera" rather an Opera which incorporated the native sounds and music of it's characters, so it was naturally syncopated - thus "ragtime" sounding. I should have been more specific, an Opera based around themes of black equality and education (which included lots of rag and syncopation), sadly, would have been virtually unmarketable at the time. Joplin had to actually pay to have the score published as no publisher at the time would have brought it. Hope that clears things up.


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## christomacin

These are a few of my favorite rags by Joplin:


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