# Newbie Poor Guy trying to study music theory



## sammyooba

I'm studying music theory by myself.

Anybody have any suggestions on books?

In what order should I study it?

Like first Music Theory basics, then study harmonics, and then counter point. I don't even know the difference between Music theory basics and harmonics. ahh 

Right now I've read about the first 50 pages of "Understanding Music Theory", 
"Practical Music Theory Complete", "Music Theory".

I'm kind of having trouble with triads, minors on circle of fifths, and stuff like that.

I also tried reading first few pages of books by Schoenberg Arnold, Salzer Felix, and Pistol Walker about counter point/harmony/structural hearing but I didn't understand anything harhar.

Can somebody be my friend so like when I got a question, I can ask someone

msn: [email protected]
skype : outaivir

No, I'm too poor to pay for real classes. (Got all my books online free)


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## PostMinimalist

I could provisionally take on the role of theory mentor for a while. I am here almost everyday for a few hours, so to answer your questions I will start a new thread in the 'Beginners' section of the 'Instruments and Technique' forum, called 'Music Theory from Square One'. I will try to post something like simple tutorial material there which you may or may not know. I imagine there will be a lot of folk adding and correcting things so it will be quite active. Don't be affraid to PM me if you find it too basic or too advanced. 
I will try to post musical examples of anything we discuss and post scores to clarify things. 

This of course cannot be a substitute for getting seriously into the books! The books you have on the subject of Theory sound pretty good but I don't know them in any detail. Try to find the respective sections to my posts in the books and double check things that you dont understand and if there are any discrepancies between what you read here and what's in those books tell me and I'll try to reconcile any differences. 

I hope this will get you on the right road.

See you then on the new thread.
FC


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## sree

I learnt music on my own with the help of books and internet. I have spend many hours in understanding the theory. One of the most important task you should do apart from learning music is listening to good music. You listen to classical music and study music books. do post your questions in music theory. If post-minimalist gives permisson i to want to help you in his new thread.


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## Patch

*Music theory help*

Quite ambitious and you're somewhat on the right track. One sight that is great for learning chords, intervals and scales is http://www.musictheory.net/.

http://neilhawes.com/sstheory/theory.htm

http://musiced.about.com/od/beginnerstheory/Beginners_Music_Theory.htm

The 2 sites above may help as well.

I haven't found a great explanation of how music theory works online so I'll try to breifly explain it, maybe it will help you to understand how it's formed.

I'll try and explain this part simply, you can look up 'overtone series' if you want to understand it better. Basically any note played, vibrates whether voice or a plucked string, which causes the sound you here. 
Let's say the note 'C' is played. The note 'C' is the main note you here but little 'overtones' are present too. Overtones are other notes 'frequencies' that you hear at the same time. 
The 'C' frequency is heard the most so the note is called 'C'. G and E are the next common notes to be heard when you play 'C' so that's why C-E-G make up the C Major chord and sound good together. F# is a very faint overtone when C is played that's why they sound dissonant (bad, to western ears).

What I just explained is the basis of western (N.America, Europe) music theory. It is something you would learn later on but it's why certain chords sound better to our ears than others. That lays the structure for melody and harmony and how songs are written. Music theory is a set of rules for music, after composers learn the basics they tend to break many rules...like some chefs create great meals from odd ingredients but they go well together.

If you have a college or community college nearby sometimes they let you 'audit' or sit in on classes for free. Of course you don't get credit.

I'd start with the basics, scales, note names...simple melody and harmony, intervals and chords. Counterpoint and the authors you're reading are a bit advanced. Learning the basics will help you appreciate and understand them more. Best of Luck


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## Lukecash12

I'll be sure to check out the new thread. I love going over music theory. Also, alternative methods (Indian, Japanese, Israeli) would be fun to go over if you're interested.


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## Argus

Lukecash12 said:


> I'll be sure to check out the new thread. I love going over music theory. Also, alternative methods (Indian, Japanese, Israeli) would be fun to go over if you're interested.


I agree here. I would love to learn about Indian, Japanese and other world folk music styles, like the modes and scales they use and how they implement them and different notation systems or temperings/tunings.

To the OP, I too have never had a music teacher or studied music at school beyond secondary school, where I basically learnt Every Good Boy Deserves Favour and a few simple tunes on the piano, but with the internet and books I now have a solid understanding of harmony, counterpoint and can sight read guitar and bass scores adequately.

I would recommend Walter Piston's _Harmony_ and Kent Kennan's _Counterpoint_. These may seem quite heavy reading if you have zero previous knowledge but they do build up slowly into the more complex ideas and with enough patience you'll get alot out of them. The Piston book is especially accessible to novices. However, Schoenberg's books should be left until you have a firm understanding of basic theory or you'll just confuse yourself. Another book I have heard good things about but haven't read yet is _Gradus ad Parnassum_ by J.J. Fux, which is supposedly the seminal text on counterpoint used by composers like Mozart and Beethoven.

My main weakness is my ears. If anyone knows a good method for ear training it would be a real help.


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## Lukecash12

Argus said:


> I agree here. I would love to learn about Indian, Japanese and other world folk music styles, like the modes and scales they use and how they implement them and different notation systems or temperings/tunings.
> 
> To the OP, I too have never had a music teacher or studied music at school beyond secondary school, where I basically learnt Every Good Boy Deserves Favour and a few simple tunes on the piano, but with the internet and books I now have a solid understanding of harmony, counterpoint and can sight read guitar and bass scores adequately.
> 
> I would recommend Walter Piston's _Harmony_ and Kent Kennan's _Counterpoint_. These may seem quite heavy reading if you have zero previous knowledge but they do build up slowly into the more complex ideas and with enough patience you'll get alot out of them. The Piston book is especially accessible to novices. However, Schoenberg's books should be left until you have a firm understanding of basic theory or you'll just confuse yourself. Another book I have heard good things about but haven't read yet is _Gradus ad Parnassum_ by J.J. Fux, which is supposedly the seminal text on counterpoint used by composers like Mozart and Beethoven.
> 
> My main weakness is my ears. If anyone knows a good method for ear training it would be a real help.


Hmmmmm..... I was taught that Good Boys Do Fine Always. Also, come to think of it, we had a down south way of remembering the order of flats: Boys Eat All Da Good Chicken Food


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## emiellucifuge

I would be interested in your idea post minimalist. 

Try the book Harmony in Practise by Anna Butterworth - excellent course in harmony.


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## Ignis Fatuus

Hey! I'm in the same situation. I just finished my grade 8 theory and working on my diploma now, so it's possible, don't give up!

I loved this book: http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Music-T...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257294984&sr=8-1
and the equally garishly coloured part 2.

Part 1 gives you everything you need to do Grade 5. Part 2 lays the ground work for grade 8.

Sree is right, never read more than you listen!


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## sammyooba

Actually, now I actually have a class at my public college.

Get college credits and learn what I want to learn, great

But my teacher is insanely hard

He's so in depth that the work we do, friends I know in their 3rd year of music don't even understand it...

So far theory is pretty easy, I have an A because I overstudy for this class, I'm sure everybody is dying lol.

The thing is you have to take this class with a thing called "Musicianship" which I think I have a D or C.. 

You have to do like sight singing (singing on pitch with solfege when given a random music sheet) also dictation (opposite of sight singing).

It seems like my friends are doing fine because they started music when they were very young and have good music ears. But musicianship is like the hardest class I ever took in my life. -_-

--

I actually wrote some songs but I have no idea what I'm doing lol. I just know consonance and dissonance. I make some melody and add bass that sounds overly consonant.

I wish there was some class that was made specially for music composition at my school.


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## sammyooba

Actually I'm going to go ahead and post 1 of the song I'm working on here so I hope i can get some critique.

It's very short because it's intended to set on a music box which just plays short music in loops.

please don't be too harsh because I only started music this year when I got bored in my JAVA class -_-.

ignore the weird picture, but it has to do with a half accordion/half string instrument I'm trying to invent.


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## sree

Dear sammyooba,

I listened to your music, it is an excellent attempt. The slow tempo of the song gives a kind of mystic feel. 
Music can be learned at any age. study lots of music, listen to different musical style. Have a target and you will reach...

All the best.

Cheers!!!


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