# Recommendations of Monteverdi's Vespers



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Hey, I really like Baroque choral works and recently listened to the William Christie version of this piece on youtube. I'm trying to decide which version to buy and have narrowed it down to (I think) the Rene Jacobs version, the John Elliot Gardnier version, and the William Christie version. Anyone have any advice on which one to go with?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I love the first recording from John Elliot Gardnier on Decca but the very best is the Savall.

I do believe the put a new cover on it.


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## Biffo (Mar 7, 2016)

Pugg said:


> I love the first recording from John Elliot Gardnier on Decca but the very best is the Savall.
> 
> I do believe the put a new cover on it.


The Savall version seems to have appeared in various guises, I have it as part of a box set with works by Charpentier, Ceriols and Haydn; it is a fine performance.

The Vespers can take various approaches. The first ever version I bought was the 1960s release from Jurgens & Harnoncourt on LP. The first CD version I bought was the Gardiner one mentioned above. I have a soft spot for the DG Archiv release from Hanns-Martin Scneidt and the Regensburger Domspatzen - this set also has the alternative Magnificat and the Missa 'In illa tempore'. I also have recordings from Bernius and Herreweghe but, possibly, my current favourite is from Alessandrini and Concerto Italiano. This a OVPP performance but as it uses 11 soloists there is still a reasonable body of singers for the choruses.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

If you mean Gardiner's DG Archiv recording, I'd take a pass. I don't find myself reaching for it anymore, as I've come to prefer other versions. Though I know others like it. I don't know Christie's 1610 Vespers recording, but I'm not sure that Christie's style of conducting is quite right for Monteverdi. So I'd recommend Rene Jacobs of those three, as it's a good version among larger scale performances of the Vespers (& I probably prefer it over Harnoncourt's).

However, it wouldn't be my first or second choice. That would be L'Arpeggiata's recording, led by Christine Pluhar, on Sony, which to me, stands out in a crowded field. There are two listings on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-V...0&sr=1-2&keywords=christina+pluhar+monteverdi
https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-V...5&sr=1-3&keywords=christina+pluhar+monteverdi

And, I'm afraid that I also think very highly of Phillip Pickett's version with the New London Consort, which I hesitate to recommend because Pickett is currently doing time in jail, and I don't mean to imply that I admire the man (as I don't). I should also mention that the singing on his Vespers has a tendency to become somewhat aspirated. I recall that one of the British critics didn't like it, but I thought it worked exceptionally well. Indeed, the singing is what made Pickett's version one of the most interesting & listenable 1610 Vespers I've heard. You should also know that it is sung one-voice-per-part (Pickett was the first to do so in this work).

https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-V...1518856646&sr=1-1&keywords=pickett+monteverdi

I also think very highly of Andrew Parrott's EMI recording too. Parrott sets the Vespers in a liturgical context, which may not be for all tastes, but it's a very fine performance.

https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-V...1518857233&sr=1-1&keywords=parrott+monteverdi
https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-V...1518857262&sr=1-3&keywords=parrott+monteverdi
https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-S...518857262&sr=1-10&keywords=parrott+monteverdi

Normally, I would rush to recommend Gabriel Garrido & Ensemble Elyma in Monteverdi, but Garrido's Vespers is the one Monteverdi recording by him that I'm not completely enthusiastic about. (Even so, it's probably better than a good number of other versions.) But Garrido's L'Orfeo is an entirely different story--as it's wonderful:

https://www.amazon.com/Operas-Monte...8-1-fkmr0&keywords=garrido+monteverdi+L'orfeo

Finally, La Venexiana can be good in Monteverdi too, but I don't think they've recorded the 1610 Vespers, only the Madrigals & L'Orfeo. The same is true for I Fagiolini, led by Robert Hollingsworth, who are likewise superb in Monteverdi, but no 1610 Vespers yet.

My two cents.


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

I've got the Christie version. Really beautifully sung!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Biffo said:


> I have a soft spot for the DG Archiv release from Hanns-Martin Scneidt and the Regensburger Domspatzen - this set also has the alternative Magnificat and the Missa 'In illa tempore'


I'm also fond of the Regensburgers, although their recording now sounds a bit rougher than the more polished HIP recordings that followed it. Perhaps that's why I still like it!

That said, it's not my favourite. There are many recordings of the Vespers I enjoy, all of which have already been mentioned: Pluhar, Savall, Jacobs, Parrott and Pickett probably make up my Top Five, with Parrott just nudging the Number One spot, perhaps.

So many to choose from... it just goes to show how lucky this splendid work has been on disc.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Josquin13 said:


> Normally, I would rush to recommend Gabriel Garrido & Ensemble Elyma in Monteverdi, but Garrido's Vespers is the one Monteverdi recording by him that I'm not completely enthusiastic about.


Agreed. Ditto John Butt and the Dunedin Consort, a group for whom I'm normally hugely enthusiastic, but - fine though it is - their recording of the Vespers doesn't _quite_ do it for me.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

All these recommendations are making things very difficult (but in a good way). I tried the Christine Pluhar recording (as it was on youtube) but found it, on a whole, to be inferior to the William Christie version which I thought had a bit better tempo and was a bit better sung. I also listened to some parts from the Saval (which was also on youtube) recording which was fairly similar to the christie one stylisticaly but also found it to be not quite as good. However, I live in Canada and can't seem to find the William Christie version for a reasonable price but the Rene Jacobs version is on amazon prime.

I'm also quite intrigued by the Andrew Parrot version but am worried the sound quality might not be fantastic and the more liturgical performance might make it a bit dry. Are these concerns unfounded? (for what it's worth its the gramaphone choice).

Thankfully though I've eliminated the JEG one on this advice. It's funny, JEG is so highly regarded and yet the only recording I can think of where he really knocked it out of the park (in my opinion) was missa solemnis and I still find the klempler recording to be superior.

Thanks for all the advice!


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

"I tried the Christine Pluhar recording (as it was on youtube) but found it, on a whole, to be inferior to the William Christie version which I thought had a bit better tempo and was a bit better sung."

Did you listen to a live performance on You Tube, or the actual Sony recording? The following clip sounds like the Sony recording to me:






It's certainly possible that the Christie recording, which I've not heard, is better sung, as he tends to hire very good singers. But the Pluhar version is still a well sung version, IMO (relative to other recordings). As for "a bit better tempo", I'm not sure what you mean? Did you find her tempi too fast, in relation to Christie's? Personally, I think she's spot on with her choice of tempi, and I love how Pluhar and her musicians add lots of ornament. It's extremely well done, and I find consistently delightful (for me, it adds interest). I don't imagine Christie is nearly as successful in that regard. Parrott isn't, nor others that I can think of. I've also found that the more I've listened to Pluhar's tempi, the more I've liked what she does. (I don't feel the same way about Alessindrini's performance, for instance.) But I would imagine it could take some getting used to, depending on which versions people are accustomed to beforehand. But yes, she's certainly faster than Parrott.

I don't recall any sound problems with Parrott's recording, as it was digitally recorded in the 1980s, if memory serves. & the sound is clear and well balanced, with a slightly reverberant church acoustic, which is appropriate. That's ideal to my mind, and preferable to Savall's, which was recorded in an overly reverberant acoustic, with too large a choir, IMO.

However, EMI has been ultra stingy about remastering their 1980s recordings over the years, so my guess is that the Parrott recording has not been remastered since the 1980s. But for its time it was an excellent recording. If I remember right, Parrott's version also represented a number of significant scholarly advances & corrections to Monteverdi's score, but by now I would imagine those changes are more or less common place (& there may have been further scholarly developments since then, too). As for setting the Vespers in a historical liturgical context, that's entirely a matter of personal taste. I'm not always in the mood for it myself, but that's just me.

By the way, there's an interesting review by "Gio" of the Parrott recording, with a worthwhile further discussion of various 1610 Vesper recordings in the comments section afterwards, including Christie & Savall's, etc., which may help you to make up your mind (or possibly confuse you even more, I'm not sure):

https://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-Vespro-della-Beata-Vergine/dp/B000031WJB

I agree with you on Gardiner's Missa Solemnis. One of his advantages, as a conductor, has been his extraordinarily virtuosic Monteverdi choir. But I don't think even Gardiner's fans love everything he has ever done. I don't. Some of the recordings haven't worn well with me over time, such as his Mozart Requiem. I liked it at first, but over the decades have come to much prefer Christie, Schreier, & others, by a mile. But Gardiner is very good in Haydn choral works too, and sometimes Handel (especially during his earlier Erato years).


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I also found an interesting 1991 Gramophone review of Phillip Pickett's New London Consort recording that I mostly agree with, which discusses Andrew Parrott's EMI recording as well (& others):

"You may be wondering if this is quite the right moment for yet another version of the Monteverdi Vespers. At least one projected recording has been postponed because the market appears to have been overloaded in the past few years. But Philip Pickett's performance answers that question. It is individual; it is carefully considered; it is often breathtakingly exciting; and in some ways it may be the work's best recording so far.

Going to one extreme, Pickett uses solo voices for all the polyphony, thus producing a version even more slimline than Andrew Parrott's on EMI. There is plenty of room for argument about the sort of forces that Monteverdi could have had in mind: several passages-for example in Laudate Dominum and Audi coelum-seem to cry out for a massive chorus, though I have the sense that historical probability sides with Pickett. What is clear, though-in this recording just as much as in Parrott's-is that keeping the forces down gives you several distinct advantages: textures immediately become clearer, giving more value to the details of Monteverdi's music; all that messing with quirky orchestration becomes unnecessary; and flexibility is much easier to achieve, as is Monteverdi's muscular vitality.

Following Parrott's effectively watertight arguments, this performance moves to a pitch-standard a fourth lower for the Lauda Jerusalem and the Magnificat. This works rather less well (just as it does for Parrott, and Herreweghe on Harmonia Mundi), largely because it brings some passages into a register where it is very difficult for the singers to work expressively. The reason for that, as most people now seem to agree, is that Monteverdi was probably starting from a pitch-standard about a minor third higher than the A =440 used in all recordings of the work so far. Unfortunately the cost and difficulty of getting 'original' instruments at that pitch level are still insuperable, which is a pity. (I would think that an appropriate pitch is worth more than appropriate instruments, but most people seem to disagree at the moment.)

These movements are by no means unconvincing: they are simply less clear and compelling than on the Gardiner-1986 Decca and 1991 Archiv Produktion-versions (and, going further back, those of Harnoncourt on Teldec/Warner Classics and the 1983 Corboz, which is scheduled for reissue in the near future). Moreover, Pickett compensates with one simple change to the printed sequence of movements, by ending with the Sonata sopra Sancta Maria. In several other ways that seems an excellent and intelligent solution.

But the main reason I shall keep returning to this recording is the singers, who may represent the strongest lineup yet for the Vespers. There's not a weak link anywhere. Particular excitement here lies on two fronts. First the tenors. Andrew King does a marvellous ***** sum, getting the excitement, the wonder and even the ecstasy of the piece; John Mark Ainsley is equally well suited to the more majestic Audi caching; and the two join with Rufus Willer in what must be the most satisfying recorded version of Duo Seraphim. (I'll swear thay have even managed to synchronize their goat-trills.)

Then the sopranos. At first blush, Catherine Bott and Tessa Bonner would seem an improbable pair, with strikingly different voices and musicianship. But that contrast immediately works to tremendous effect in the Dixit Dominus. Later they achieve magic in Pulchra es: initially it seems far too fast and likely to be the least seductive of all the available versions; but then they make splendidly flexible use of the resulting clearer design, and in the last paragraph they just hit you between the eyes. If you are sampling the disc, don't miss their glorious, and again unusual, duets in the Esurientes. It is their success, incidentally, that contributes most to making the Sonata sopra Sancta Maria such a satisfying close."

-- Gramophone [3/1991]

By the way, the Pickett Monteverdi Vespers was released in a Double Decca bargain set in 2012:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/4783949

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monteverdi-Vespro-della-Beata-Vergine/dp/B007YS4N7M

But I still prefer Christina Pluhar's recording, overall, and maybe Parrott's too.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

That's the exact version I watched. Is the live one better?

I did indeed mean that I found the tempos a little swift, but nothing that I really disliked.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

"That's the exact version I watched. Is the live one better?"

No, I don't think so. I only vaguely recall having seen a live version that wasn't as good--so I wondered if that might not have been what you heard. (Not that L'Arpeggiati isn't a terrific group live, they are. Pluhar gets excellent musicians around her.)

"I did indeed mean that I found the tempos a little swift"

As mentioned, the more I've listened to Pluhar's version, the slower (& less exciting) other versions have begun to sound. At least that was my experience.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

After doing some more listening I have decided to go with the Christie version. Thanks for all the recommendations, listening to so many versions (sometimes just samples) helped with the decision. I just need to find a place to buy it now.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> After doing some more listening I have decided to go with the Christie version. Thanks for all the recommendations, listening to so many versions (sometimes just samples) helped with the decision. I just need to find a place to buy it now.


Even with that we can help you. 

http://www.bookbutler.com/music/compare?ean=0825646195282


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Pugg said:


> Even with that we can help you.
> 
> http://www.bookbutler.com/music/compare?ean=0825646195282


Thanks! I should have checked on amazon typing the name in in Italian as well as English.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

This is my favorite version, an inspiring video to watch as well.






John Eliot Gardiner - Conducter

The Monteverdi Choir
The English Baroque Soloists
The London Oratory Juniors Choir

Ann Monoyios - Soprano
Marinella Pennicchi
Michael Chance - Counter Tenor
Nigel Robson - Tenor 
Mark Tucker - Tenor 
Sandro Naglia - Tenor
Bryn Terfel - Bass
Alastair Miles - Bass

Basilica di San Marco, Venice 
1990


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

I have a question about Pickett recording: is complete? because timing is considerably fewer than other recordings.


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## Biffo (Mar 7, 2016)

JSBach85 said:


> I have a question about Pickett recording: is complete? because timing is considerably fewer than other recordings.


I haven't heard the Pickett recording but I looked at the track listing. He includes all the psalms and sacred concerti, hymns etc plus antiphons. Not everyone includes a set of antiphons and it is hotly debated whether they are needed.

He does not include the alternative Magnificat II or the Missa 'In illa tempore'; these were published in the same volume as the Vespers. Magnificat II is simpler than Magnificat I (the one Pickett includes) and was probably intended for establishments with small resources or possibly for less important feasts.

Some recordings include Magnificat II and some even include the Mass.

There is also the possibility that Pickett has some swift tempi.


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Thank you for the information. I also have ordered Robert King recording. There are great recordings of this masterpiece, another one I am interested in is John Butt/Dunedin Consort and William Christie.


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