# To which composer(s) belong(s) your three favorite fugues?



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Let's test J.S. Bach's supremacy in the field here at TC. 

If you select _other(s)_, please tell us who.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Bach of course: the Kyrie of the B minor Mass, the six part fugue from the Musical Offering, and Contrapunctus 3 from AoF. Not to mention the B flat major and minor fugues from WTC II, the B major and minor fugues from WTC I and on and on.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Allerius said:


> Let's test J.S. Bach's supremacy in the field here at TC.
> 
> If you select _other(s)_, please tell us who.


I also voted Bach.

If you had written "To which composer belong your fifty favorite fugues?" my answer would still be Bach.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

I know why Bernstein is there. I'm not gonna answer this poll. I also don't feel the need to "test Bach's supremacy" as that is history also confirmed by competend scholars and composers.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Well in the field of counterpoint there's simply no competition. Although this being an internet forum there will no doubt be naysayers.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Amadea said:


> I know why Bernstein is there... let me say I think this is quite childish and for that reason I'm not gonna answer this poll. I also don't feel the need to "test Bach's supremacy" as that is history also confirmed by competend scholars and composers.


This is a poll. There are polls of all kinds around here, and I see no harm in making one about fugues. You participate if you wish, of course.

Bernstein said that Beethoven never wrote a good fugue, so I assume that he must have better ones and, considering that Beethoven has a single option for him here, I think that it's fair that Bernstein also have one. He is a composer after all, and I don't know why his presence in the poll should be a problem.



consuono said:


> Well in the field of counterpoint there's simply no competition. Although this being an internet forum there will no doubt be naysayers.


If the talking is just about counterpoint and nothing else (not fugues), then I think that J.S. Bach has competition from the Renaissance masters such as Palestrina, Tallis, Josquin, Victoria and others.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I picked Bach. If I had made a 2nd selection, it would have been Shostakovich (all those great fugues in his op. 87).


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Allerius said:


> Bernstein said that Beethoven never wrote a good fugue, so I assume that he must have better ones and, considering that Beethoven has a single option for him here, I think that it's fair that Bernstein also have one. He is a composer after all, and I don't know why his presence in the poll should be a problem.


No comment. Do not expect any other replies from me. I'm not gonna push this further, as in the Haydn's vs Mozart's symphonies thread you have clearly completely misunderstood my words as an attack on Beethoven (which is one of my and Bernstein's favourite composers...) and that is the reason of this poll's existence. Goodbye.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Williams


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Allerius said:


> ...
> If the talking is just about counterpoint and nothing else (not fugues), then I think that J.S. Bach has competition from the Renaissance masters such as Palestrina, Tallis, Josquin, Victoria and others.


Umm...........
No, not really.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

consuono said:


> Umm...........
> No, not really.


Well, to each their own, but I think that there's a reason for the Renaissance to be called _The Golden Age of Polyphony_. This said, I of course acknowledge Bach's genius for counterpoint, and it's no surprise to me that he is leading this poll (I voted for him here by the way).



Amadea said:


> No comment. Do not expect any other replies from me. I'm not gonna push this further, as in the Haydn's vs Mozart's symphonies thread you have clearly completely misunderstood my words as an attack on Beethoven (which is one of my and Bernstein's favourite composers...) and that is the reason of this poll's existence. Goodbye.


I think that your response to our little disagreement is being a bit disproportional and exaggerated. But you do as you wish. I suggest you to not get too personal in discussions such as this, and apologize if my defense of Beethoven annoyed you somehow.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Beethoven. 
Bach might have my 30 favorite fugues as fugues. But Beethoven has a few pieces that happen to be fugal and I prefer them clearly to even my favorite dozen or so of Bach fugues: op.133, op.131,i, op.106,iv would be my 3 favourite instrumental, then op.110, finale and the two great vocal ones (in "vitam venturi saeculi" and in "gloria dei patris" from op.123. Of course there are lots of other good ones, two in the Diabellis, the variations op.35, op.102 etc., the C major mass, but I don't rate them as highly,


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Bach and Beethoven... I also like the Shostakovich...


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I have 3.5 recordings of the DSCH P&F but I am a bit on the edge here. After Bach and Beethoven, it would probably be Brahms (Handel variations, 1st cello sonata, vocal music), Handel or assorted single/singular movements, such as the first of Bartok's music for strings, percussion etc., Mozart's c minor for strings, Mendelssohn e minor P&F, maybe Schumann (although my favorite polylphonic Schumann is the canonical studies for pedal piano, technically not fugues, as they manage to sound as "natural" as Bach (and not like striving hard to imitate Bach or Handel or just striving).


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Fabulin said:


> Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Williams


I enjoy John Williams' music and think that he is very underrated in this forum. Which fugue by him you had in mind when voting here?


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Allerius said:


> I enjoy John Williams' music and think that he is very underrated in this forum. Which fugue by him you had in mind when voting here?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Allerius said:


> I enjoy John Williams' music and think that he is very underrated in this forum.


Given that Williams has many fans here on TC, I can't consider him underrated; if anything, just the opposite.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Is Shostakovich Op87. Simples.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> Given that Williams has many fans here on TC, I can't consider him underrated; if anything, just the opposite.


Perhaps you're right, but I was a bit surprised that even Cage (who most here don't even consider a great composer) almost beat Williams in a poll here some time ago.


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## ido66667 (Aug 29, 2016)

I love a great deal of Renaissance composers who composed highly contrapuntal music that in many regards anticipated the fugue (especially the Fantasia and Ricercare genres that were the fugue's direct ancestors). But if we include only the fugue proper, then I think it would be Bach and Shostakovich. But I also have to mention Beethoven and his Große Fuge!

Which fugues by them exactly? That's a much harder question. Sometimes it comes down to my mood.


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## jkl (May 4, 2021)

Bach wrote many great fugues. I think he really enjoyed writing fugues and became so good at it.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

jkl said:


> Bach wrote many great fugues. I think he really enjoyed writing fugues and became so good at it.


I think Bach was a mathematician at heart.


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## jkl (May 4, 2021)

Possibly, in a musical sense. Bach was pursing musical science towards the end of his life like he was trying to figure out the secrets of composing complex fugues as the highest form of musical expression.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Shostakovich #7 and 24. Brahms Handel Var. Beethoven late sonata fugues


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I also like the Classical sense of drama Mozart displays in;





^notice how the section at 0:50 is different in feel from the one at 3:00

Missa longa K.262 - Et vitam venturi
youtube.com/watch?v=Zm3tZfyFjwE&t=17m2s
^I think the dissonant strettos (18:11, 18:42) are wonderful

Litaniae de venerabili altaris sacramento K.243 - VIII. Pignus futurae gloriae (starts at 24:04):




^this is thought to be inspired by a Pignus double fugue by M. Haydn, just as K.339/iv was inspired by the Cum sanctis tuis from M. Haydn's C minor requiem. I also want M. Haydn's litanies recorded as I'm eager to know how good his are too.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> I also like the Classical sense of drama Mozart displays in;
> 
> 
> 
> ...





hammeredklavier said:


> "The sort of holy music that evokes nostalgia for the ancient past."
> "The sort of outdated music that should belong to a museum."
> 
> both views are equally valid.


I'll go with option B for all the above.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> I'll go with option B for all the above.


Sure, but I like how this has "gradations" in terms of mood changes and dynamics, btw:
youtube.com/watch?v=SfbwNRKuVRo&t=12m18s (13:18, 13:24 and 14:34)
youtube.com/watch?v=SfbwNRKuVRo&t=4m57s (5:32 and 7:15)
youtube.com/watch?v=SfbwNRKuVRo&t=10m17s
youtube.com/watch?v=SfbwNRKuVRo&t=19m44s


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> Sure, but I like how this has "gradations" in terms of mood changes and dynamics, btw:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll still go with option B. The point is, hammered, these little oblique attacks on Bach can be used to absolutely nuke the composers and works you're continually advocating here. If Bach belongs in a museum, these would be in the basement.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Bach, Handel, Haydn and Mozart. I am sure there are other good fugues but I haven't come across them yet from other composers nearly as good.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

It has been almost an year since this poll was started and I'm deliberately bumping it so that the new members may see it and participate.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

Listening to fugues... oh boy (or girl), yes!!

I love the perpetuum mobile feel I can get from them... even though, of course, there are plenty of fugues with, say, 'intersections' or 'intermissions'.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to really rate the quality of fugues, to me it's mostly the experience that can drive me... [_still searching for the best word_].
I remember, when I first listened to Mozart's Requiem, I was almost drowning in the 'quam olim Abrahae' fugue. But it did not last long enough, so I managed to survive.

I guess that Bach remains my ultimate fugue composer. My favourite fugue of all time is probably Contrapuntus 11 (or XI) of Bach's BWV 1080 (the printed edition of 1751).
But to me, that particular one works best after listening to contrapunti 1-10 first. Which means: 10 other great fugues. 

My best 'live' experiences of fugues were also Bach fugues, played on organ. The Ricercar a 6 from BWV 1079 and the fugue of BWV 544 did send me to... [_still searching for the best word_]. 
IIRC, they were respectively played by Leo van Doeselaar and Pieter-Jelle de Boer on the glorious Schnitger et al organ of the Martinikerk in Groningen, NL.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Aside from Bach: Beethoven, Hindemith, Shostakovich...oh and Bruckner too. It's hard to narrow down to three


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Beethoven's from the "Hallelujah" chorus of _Christ On the Mount of Olives_.

Bruckner's double fugue in the finale of the _Fifth Symphony_.

Bach from the Prelude and Fugue No. 7 in book 1 of _Well-Tempered Clavier._


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## Agamenon (Apr 22, 2019)

Bach is the EMPEROR in this field.

Regards.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Agamenon said:


> Bach is the EMPEROR in this field.
> 
> Regards.


The first thing that crossed my mind also .


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Seems a bit unfair to include Bach in this list eh?


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

probably the climax of Suk's "Zrani" (Ripening) symphony. 
Baroque fugues can be thrilling to sing but I'd never actually listen to any of them......


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