# Native tonality/atonality



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Inspired by a thread in the music theory section. Were you brought up getting tonal or atonal before the other? Rhetorical question for most, since I never heard of someone who 'got' atonal music before tonal, even from different cultures. I don't know of any native atonal music of any culture, being from an Asian background myself, but maybe just haven't been around enough. So 2 separate issues really, your musical cultural background, and tonality vs atonality as your 'first language', although these 2 could be interrelated.

Kind of wondering if atonality is a relative thing rather than absolute (ah, forget about this sentence). Definitions/histories of atonality all point to Schoenberg's time being the 'pioneering' phase


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I grew up hearing a lot of classical music from the common practice period. I actually didn't even know that atonality existed until I was 14, when I attended a concert that included some contemporary works. I remember being utterly baffled, unable to make any sense of what I was hearing. At first, I actually thought that the musicians hadn't started the piece yet, since it seemed that they were just playing random notes to check whether their instruments were tuned correctly. Gradually it dawned on me that this WAS the real piece. 

Since then, I've managed to develop some appreciation for atonal music, but it's been a difficult process. Atonal music will probably never give me the emotional thrills that I experience from tonal music, but maybe emotional expression isn't the main point of atonal music anyway. Millionrainbows's posts have been helping me explore new ways of listening to atonal styles.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes, common practice was my native musical language and this was originally my argument against atonality. I thought no one could possibly be as fluent at getting the subtleties of art in a language other than their native one. I'm still not sure whether I was correct in that assumption, but my attitude changed almost over night when I quite suddenly started "getting" the more atonal stuff, serialism, spectralism and other non-common practice methods. Do I fully get them? I don't know. I don't know if I fully get Bach or Beethoven, but I certainly enjoy them. And now Schoenberg and Boulez too. I'm glad I have the spectrum to enjoy.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Someone being brought up initially with only atonal music would be quite rare. They would have to not listen to the radio, tv, or movies. They would have to be home schooled so as not to sing in school. They would also have to be brought up by adults who love atonal music. The chances of all this happening are remote!


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Most of the actual, identifiable music I was brought up with could be classified as tonal.

Of course I was also exposed to many ambient _sounds _that were not tonal music, and I came to like many of those sounds; I was also exposed to various man-made sound effects and soundscapes on TV shows which I would have liked, and I would later come to enjoy more elaborate man-made 'soundscapes' that would not come under the heading of 'tonal music'.

So I was brought up on tonal music, and came to like it.
I was also brought up on sound that was not 'tonal music', and also came to like that.

For me, the problem with most of what's described as 'atonal music' is the built-in contradiction that it's an attempt to avoid tonality, but still uses the basic building blocks (scales, intervals) of tonal music. 
Intuitively it would seem like the potential for success of that approach would be limited, and that has also been my subjective experience.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

20centrfuge said:


> Someone being brought up initially with only atonal music would be quite rare. They would have to not listen to the radio, tv, or movies. They would have to be home schooled so as not to sing in school. They would also have to be brought up by adults who love atonal music. The chances of all this happening are remote!


Yeah, I guess at least in Weatern society to bring your infants up on Ligeti over Brahm's lullaby, Twinkle Twinkle, would be considered aural abuse. :lol:

I have heard some old Japanese flute music, and even though it may not really be atonal, it is quite dissonant to Western taste. But they may have weaned their kids up on a different kind of music.


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