# Is there a forum strictly devoted to classical music analysis?



## keystrike (Mar 5, 2012)

I am currently studying music seriously (harmony, voice leading, counterpoint, composition, but NOT performance or appreciation). I am mostly studying by myself, I spend a lot of time on it, I do not have much access to classical music professionals, and it would really be useful to have a forum of people of similar interests where analysis questions can be addressed.

Is there a forum somewhere which focuses on strictly musical technical issues. For example, a simple question might be: What's the harmony in measures 9 - 12 of the 3rd movement of Beethoven's op 95 string quartet? Or, say, where does the modulation to C# minor begin in so-and-so's opus whatever? It's not that I'm not interested in what music is whose favorite, and what performers are wonderful and so forth, it's just that, in addition to forums which do focus on such questions, I would like one strictly focused on musicological analysis.

Any references would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

It would be convenient to have a section like this, but it wouldnt be very well frequented.

Still, there are enough users who have knowledge of these things and you are likely to get some useful replies if you post your questions in the general forums.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Don't know of any forums but there are some folks even on this forum that can certainly interact with you in such a way. Perhaps you can start a thread in the right spot or even a group. Good luck.


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## keystrike (Mar 5, 2012)

How would I start a "thread in the right spot", or a group, and what would be the advantages of one over the other?

Thanks.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

After you get to 10 posts among the plebeians, it's simple enough to start a group; one of the moderators will assist you (probably). The main advantage of the group is that plebeians are less likely to infiltrate, so the discussions will be (probably) more focused.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I would recommend you place your questions in the most fitting sub forum, as your more esoteric questions will be even less likely answered in one of the groups.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I would recommend you place your questions in the most fitting sub forum, as your more esoteric questions will be even less likely answered in one of the groups.


Jeez, what makes you think the guy is going to have esoteric questions? Maybe he is relatively normal, and has normal-type questions.

[]


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

I don't know of any theory forums, though they probably do exist. But people do sometimes ask analysis questions here on TC (usually in the "Classical Musica Discussion" area, where you posted) and get answers. I'm a music theory major and really into analysis, and I like talking to people about it. If you've got a topic, just start a thread right here!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I would love a forum on baroque and classical era composers. That would make it easier to those who like these styles to enjoy this forum. Though it might not be visited that often either.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

My degree is in musicology so I would welcome a forum group dedicated to analysis.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Come to think of it, that there isn't already such a group here makes me scratch my head.


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

Is there any way we could get the subforum up for musical analysis? This sounds like an amazing addition to the forum


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

How about a thread for it? "Musical Analysis Thread"


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I'll just leave this here... http://bw.musique.umontreal.ca/nm/index.html






Prerequisite: French


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> How about a thread for it? "Musical Analysis Thread"


Would we just focus on one piece to analyze?. I think a subforum might be more suited, as people could set up a thread in the subforum about a specific topic/thing they want to analyze, but a thread would be fun too if a subforum isn't possible.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I just added one. Yeah a thread is not perfect but a forum probably won't be active enough either.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> I just added one. Yeah a thread is not perfect but a forum probably won't be active enough either.


Well, it would still be good to have it there, though. We do have analytical conversations occasionally, so I think it would add to the site much in the way that the articles forum does. It's always there if someone wants to step into something more formal like that.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I have seen -- on another open-membership answers forum, in response to theory questions, many terrible guesses framed as answers, those coming from the lesser trained or amateur theorists; in addition there are often enough flat out incorrect answers from self-proclaimed autodidact theorist / composer 'experts.'

Generally, on the best of open-membership forums the fact it is a virtual medium, pseudonyms and all the rest included, means the format can also be virtual greenhouse hotbeds where people with sometimes sad self-conceits can thrive. An answer from those particular individuals has little of value other than supporting that self-conceit at the expense of a number of lesser-trained and / or more naive initiates, enthusiasts and actual music students. In the real world of legitimate knowledgeable music theoreticians those same individuals would quickly be weeded out. 

The integrity of the information given on any forum, due to its open admissions policy and the varied backgrounds and integrity of many of its users and respondents is extremely dodgy.... I take my theory questions, which can and do still come up after years of specialized training, to an experienced colleague.

Questions such as you may have are often asked by those who have not been through the four or more years or the equivalent of formal theory study at the college level, because most who have that training would not have those questions Often, those with that training have little interest in going over what they have already studied and learned.

Forums can be great. I would recommend first and foremost to just watch, over a period of time, for responses to any questions similar to what you will be asking, and then determine as best you can who may: 
1.) in actuality, know what they are talking about. 
2.) who, from among those in the first category, are willing to take the time to, on or off -- or fairly regularly -- act as a tutor to you.

This forum seems to have some members who are seriously trained, quite deep into theory, etc. Chances are much better here than most for finding a core of interested users from this forum's membership. 

Below are just a few instances (neither uncommon or rare) from another forum illustrating WHY it is most important to watch, wait, and then invite a handful of participants to a private group:
~~~~~ 

A 'theory expert' on another forum asked why. "Beethoven and Dvorak started some specific pieces of theirs "in the wrong key." No one who knows even a little about music theory would ever put a question in those terms! That 'expert' had been looking at pieces starting in their relative minor or the mediant of the key - a standard enough procedure since at least the mid-to-late classical era. This supposedly 'advanced' individual had not only missed the concept but also missed the very clear spelling of the key in the score and had further muffed it with that confusion.

That same 'expert' once named a French sixth by enharmonically spelling notes in his victim composers score, evidently ready to assign such a confabulation with a Roman numeral - naming verticals which had no harmonic function as functioning chords. This was in answer to a question on the Chopin E-minor prelude from a person lacking the basic tools to analyze this simple and brief piece often covered in Sophomore undergrad theory.

In that forum a senior lecturer, PhD. theorist and composer, proclaimed the fugue in Stravinsky's rigorously diatonic - tonal / modal Symphony of Psalms was "atonal." ...

....another contributor once blithely mentioned in passing that Prokofiev's music is "atonal." 

Ergo, watch, read, then assess and invite.


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## Truckload (Feb 15, 2012)

Philip said:


> I'll just leave this here... http://bw.musique.umontreal.ca/nm/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was awesomely wonderful FANTASTIC! Have any more of those?


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## Truckload (Feb 15, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I have seen -- on another open-membership answers forum, in response to theory questions, many terrible guesses framed as answers, those coming from the lesser trained or amateur theorists; in addition there are often enough flat out incorrect answers from self-proclaimed autodidact theorist / composer 'experts.'
> 
> Generally, on the best of open-membership forums the fact it is a virtual medium, pseudonyms and all the rest included, means the format can also be virtual greenhouse hotbeds where people with sometimes sad self-conceits can thrive. An answer from those particular individuals has little of value other than supporting that self-conceit at the expense of a number of lesser-trained and / or more naive initiates, enthusiasts and actual music students. In the real world of legitimate knowledgeable music theoreticians those same individuals would quickly be weeded out.
> 
> ...


I would love more discussion of analysis and theory. My degrees are in Composition and M. Ed. but that was in the 1970's and I have spent the last 35 years in the business world. Now I have time for music and I have forgotten so much and have lost many skills. Still, we only have one life and I would much rather spend my time with good music than bad TV or playing golf, etc. I hope to regain my old skills and with work, surpass them.

In your post you reference other sites. Which sites have you found to be active in discussions of theory? I have lost all of my old books, and I don't think they were particularly good anyway. I remember a theory text by Cooper.

Are you currently active in theory education? If so, what are the best texts you have found on the subject for self study?

I am currently working through Percy Goetschius' books which I heard about on this site. I am also working through the Tchaikovsky "Guide to the Practical Study of Harmony" which I have found to be most gratifying.

I dont know if I would have found Percy without this site, and I am spellbound by him. So for me forums have already been a valuable resource.


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