# Best Mozart Opera



## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

What is your favorite Mozart opera and why?
Personally I like the Magic Flute.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I still have wonderful and vivid dreams of this,...dreams I've had since childhood.


Been a long time since I last enjoyed throughout,...any good dvd recommends, Alma?


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

I voted 'Other' for Idomeneo.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

No opera ever written is as perfect as _Le Nozze di Figaro_.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

If I were to vote I might be forced to vote "Other" because I would be nearly evenly torn between the 4 big Mozartian operas: _Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro, Cosi fan tutte, and Die Zauberflote._ I don't think I could choose between them.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Our Talk Classical "Most recommended operas" thread pegged 'Figaro' as the _top-ranked_ Mozart opera, and (as it *still* is my favorite of our various 'lists') I'm not going to dispute the finding.

However, if the issue is "favorite," I'll agree with the Original Poster and say "Zauberflöte."


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

TrazomGangflow said:


> What is your favorite Mozart opera and why?
> Personally I like the Magic Flute.


 Welcome to the forum.
I think you should have included a few more of Mozart's major operas, at the very least Così fan Tutte and Idomeneo.
In any case, I voted for Nozze.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

There seems to be general (comparative) lack of Don Giovanni love on this board, before this forum I thought it was pretty clear-cut that Don Giovanni is held to be Mozart's greatest work.


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## AnaMendoza (Jul 29, 2011)

If the poll had said 'greatest' opera, I'd have voted for _Don Giovanni_; since it said 'favorite', I voted for _Cosi Fan Tutte_, which, in my opinion, should have had a slot of its own in the poll. (I could listen to _Ah Guarda, Sorella_ all day long.)

The Magic Flute was my first love, though.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

The poll is flawed because the obvious two other mature operas were omitted: _Idomeneo_ and _La Clemenza di Tito_. These two works could be described as "other" but their stature get lost that way.

I enjoy all his operas including his early ones. _Don Giovanni_ might have a slight edge owing to its unusual breadth if I had to unfaithfully pick one, largely in the name of fun for the purpose of this poll.


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

I voted for Die Zauberflöte ...


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Don Giovanni


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## akhchew (Sep 14, 2011)

No Cosi?? To me that is the perfect Mozart opera. Surely the first act (and some parts of the second) rank as the finest pieces of ensemble writing. Nothing is better than to hear the finest individual voices singing together in concert to produce transcendental sound and Cosi has that in spades. But it isn't just that the music is so beautiful - it's how Mozart weaves pathos against chuckling laughter in the quintet singing of "Muoio d'affano! Di scrivermi ogni giorno" and the sextet at the end of Act 1 that underlines the genius he had. That balance and interplay surely makes it his finest opera ever!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

I can't decide between _Le Nozze di Figaro_ and _Die Zauberflöte_.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I voted for _Die Zauberflöte_, but I also love _La Clemenza di Tito_.


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

Mmm it's The Abduction from Seragilo for me, I just love Marten Aller Arten...don't think I spelled that right, and Ach Ich Liebte especially!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

CountessAdele said:


> Mmm it's The Abduction from Seragilo for me, I just love Marten Aller Arten...


I went to school with him! Great guy.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

The truth is, Mozart's operas are so darn good that it is hard to pick just one. I voted for Le Nozze above, but any given day I might vote for Don Giovanni or Così or The Magic Flute. These four are on equal grounds in terms of quality, and I'd add Idomeneo to that. Clemenza I think is a bit below, finished as it was with less care than his usually polished work (but it is still very good). I also love Mitridate and Il Re Pastore. Abduction, of course. Many of the early ones are also beautiful.

As a matter of fact, of his 22 there are just two that I don't care for: La Finta Giardiniera, and Betulia Liberata.


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

Sorry I should have included Cosi Fan Tutte in the options.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

CountessAdele said:


> Mmm it's The Abduction from Seragilo for me, I just love Marten Aller Arten...don't think I spelled that right, and Ach Ich Liebte especially!


Have you got this, Countess? I love it, watched it about 4 times in a row when I first got it,


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

I have to say that Don Giovanni is the top for me. Although of course everyone will have their own favourite.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

If _Cosi_ had had its own slot, I'd have voted for it. But to vote for 'other' seemed fundamentally unsatisfying, so I voted for _Don Giovanni_ instead - largely because I've been listening to it these last few days while sorting out cupboards etc, and revelling in it (the music, not the cupboards) The Jacobs recording is almost 100% fantabulosiferous, but weirdly I find that one of the great highlight arias - 'Or sai chi l'onore' - doesn't quite work for me in this recording. Olga Pasichnyk never quite sings a note straight - she glides (quite ostentatiously, I feel) into every one (I expect there's a clever word for what she does), and after the first few times I find it wears thin, detracting from what should be fiery expression instead of enhancing it.

But this is neither the time nor the place for such nitpickery, you say. Quite right. On with the show. Move along please. Nothing else to see here.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Elgarian said:


> If _Cosi_ had had its own slot, I'd have voted for it. But to vote for 'other' seemed fundamentally unsatisfying, so I voted for _Don Giovanni_ instead - largely because I've been listening to it these last few days while sorting out cupboards etc, and revelling in it (the music, not the cupboards) *The Jacobs recording is almost 100% fantabulosiferous*...


Isn't it just! :tiphat:


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Clemenza I think is a bit below, finished as it was with less care than his usually polished work (but it is still very good).


He wrote _Tito_ pretty much concurrently or after much of _Zauberflöte_ was written. _Tito_ was an aristocratic commission piece for the coronation of an emperor, which was unique amongst his mature operas from the point of view of motivation. It was the only late mature _opera seria_ he wrote since _Idomeneo_ ten years earlier. He almost certainly preferred the "domestic" love story and comedy types rather than _opera seria_.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Olga Pasichnyk never quite sings a note straight - she glides (quite ostentatiously, I feel) into every one (I expect there's a clever word for what she does)


Portamento


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Nix said:


> Portamento


Scooping


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

amfortas said:


> Scooping


My word sounds fancier.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> But this is neither the time nor the place for such nitpickery, you say. Quite right. On with the show. Move along please. Nothing else to see here.


Nothing else to see here? We've just seen another sample of one of our most outstanding member's prose. I'd see it, any day.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Nix said:


> Portamento


_That's_ the one! Thanks, Nix.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Nix said:


> My word sounds fancier.


Perhaps we can adopt both? I'd be happy to settle for _scoopamento_, myself.


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Have you got this, Countess? I love it, watched it about 4 times in a row when I first got it,


No I don't, but I just bought a dvd of a production with Diana Damrau! My first opera dvd!! Next is Magic Flute again with Damrau!


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Nothing else to see here? We've just seen another sample of one of our most outstanding member's prose. I'd see it, any day.


What you're _supposed_ to say, as a stern and diligent moderator, is 'Oi! You! Keep to the topic!!' I mean, be nice if you want, but it won't advance any plans you have for World Domination, you know. You have to be ruthless, to do that. _Ruthless_, I say. Make budgies tremble!


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

mamascarlatti said:


> I love it, watched it about 4 times in a row when I first got it,


I know you've spoken highly of this, but ... _4 times in a row_? OK then, the very next opera DVD I buy will be one of those. It may be a while yet, because I recently half-bankrupted myself buying too many pictures, but when I'm in funds again (about 2045), you won't even see the blur of my clicking on the Amazon checkout. It'll be like lightning.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Elgarian said:


> I know you've spoken highly of this, but ... _4 times in a row_? OK then, the very next opera DVD I buy will be one of those. It may be a while yet, because I recently half-bankrupted myself buying too many pictures, but when I'm in funds again (about 2045), you won't even see the blur of my clicking on the Amazon checkout. It'll be like lightning.


I'm afraid I can't read the fine print on this. Anyone care to give the particulars?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Vesteralen said:


> I'm afraid I can't read the fine print on this. Anyone care to give the particulars?


Here you go:

Natalie's favourite _Serail_


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> What you're _supposed_ to say, as a stern and diligent moderator, is 'Oi! You! Keep to the topic!!' I mean, be nice if you want, but it won't advance any plans you have for World Domination, you know. You have to be ruthless, to do that. _Ruthless_, I say. Make budgies tremble!


 Well, I pretend to be nice to distract the victim while I send my hit men after the victim's budgies.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> Well, I pretend to be nice to distract the victim while I send my hit men after the victim's budgies.


Whereas I send my budgies after the victim's hitmen. Tremble, scum...


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whereas I send my budgies after the victim's hitmen. Tremble, scum...


:lol:

Any new (and sane) members of the forum will be wondering what this has to do with Mozart operas


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> Any new (and sane) members of the forum will be wondering what this has to do with Mozart operas


I think most readers will be familiar with_ Cosi Fan Tweety_, Annie.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> Any new (and sane) members of the forum will be wondering what this has to do with Mozart operas


Would a person with a sane mind join this forum anyway?


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Elgarian said:


> I think most readers will be familiar with_ Cosi Fan Tweety_, Annie.


Is that the one starring the tenor Michael _Sylvester_?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

MAuer said:


> Is that the one starring the tenor Michael _Sylvester_?


Where's the 'groan' smilie?

:lol:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Here:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I can't decide between Le nozze and le nozze....I LOVE this opera ans I love Beaumarchais...

Martin


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I feel like a wretched parent having to choose! You ever see Sophie's Choice? I have now become Meryl Streep - funny accents and all! 

I picked *Don Giovanni *because it has the hellfire and the dastardly Don, as well as the ballroom scene and the glorious act 2 terzetto with Don Giovanni, Elvira and Leporello. I also suspect that there's never been finer music composed anywhere, than there is in *Don Giovanni*.

*Magic Flute *is perfect - and foundational for German opera - and *Cosi *is an opera I can listen to all day, every day, without ever tiring of it. _Alla Bella Despinetta_ is a piece of music which defies logic. *Figaro *is inexhaustably brilliant, and the notion of Mozart not being an innovator is debunked in the great music of these works.

*Idomeneo *is a beast of a whole nother colour!

*Don Giovanni*. Today. But can I change my vote tomorrow?:tiphat:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Kieran said:


> I feel like a wretched parent having to choose! You ever see Sophie's Choice? I have now become Meryl Streep - funny accents and all!
> 
> I picked *Don Giovanni* . . . But can I change my vote tomorrow?:tiphat:


Too late. The other operas are on their way to the crematorium.

You're such a bad mother.


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## Morgana (Mar 2, 2011)

I chose "Le Nozze di Figaro," which happens to be my favorite opera of all time. It's always like going back to a group of old friends. Mozart characterized all of the roles so well in the music. It's light and comic, to be sure, but it also packs quite an emotional punch. I still get teary when the Countess forgives her husband and I've listened to and/ or watched "Figaro" hundreds of times. It's my desert island opera. If I could only have one, it would be "Nozze."


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Well put, Morgana. Welcome to the forum!


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

Does the opera "I Hate Mozart" count? 

Anyway, I picked Other and Idomeneo. Maybe because it appears closest to Opera Seria which I like.


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## unpocoscherzando (Sep 24, 2011)

_Cosi fan tutte_.

This is why:


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## terpsichandre (Oct 20, 2011)

i picked 'Other' for Requiem.


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## derderderDERRR (Sep 16, 2012)

Idomeneo - Not really a barrel of laughs. The deus ex machina at the end doesn't have a patch on Don Giovanni either.

Seraglio - Bit of an underrated one, in my opinion. Great tunes, simple but strong characters. Should definitely have more than one vote!

Marriage - Cracking music throughout. Good characters too, though the plot is far too complicated - operas need to have nice simple narratives.

Cosi Fan Tutti - Perhaps the most satisfying Mozart opera in terms of dramatic consistency, but to be honest, I've never found the music that memorable.

Don Giovanni - Uneven. I think the last scene is not only the most electrifying scene in all opera, but in pretty much in all of Western theatre. You have to wait a long time to get there though, wading through a silly plot full of characters we don't really care about. (You do wonder why Donna Elvira doesn't just find herself someone nice.)

Magic Flute - really really stupid.

La Clemenza di Tito - I really like this, actually. Bit solemn, but it has an effortless elegance missing in the over-earnest, try-hard Idomeneo.

All in all, then, I do Marriage for number 1, Seraglio and Clemenza as joint second, and DG as third.


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## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

"Magic Flute-really really stupid". Amazingly impressive statement! Fortunately, it's only an opinion...(the "cheapest commodity", as some have said...).

Principe


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

principe said:


> "Magic Flute-really really stupid". Amazingly impressive statement! Fortunately, it's only an opinion...(the "cheapest commodity", as some have said...).
> 
> Principe


I would not worry about people making clowns out of themselves posting foolish comments - just ignore it.

Le Nozze used to be my favourite - beautiful as it is I find, more so than any other Mozart opera - the music wearing itself out a little. I think this is caused by me knowing the plot so well - so that dramatic bite of the music is lost if you know, for example, that Sussanah is going to emerge from that closet in act 2 looking and souding like sweet innocence itself. I do wonder how audiences at Glyndebourne manage to raise a chuckle at some of the jokes which they must have heard 100s of times and which the singers look like they are preparing for the big moments. I don't get this with the other operas.


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## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

I also adore "Le Nozze" and I tend to believe it is the best (overall) Opera served in the best possible way by the _wunder Kind_.

Principe


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Magic Flute - really really stupid.

*Absolute Blasphemy!!!!*


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

It's hard to vote because he wrote beautiful operas, but I think Le nozze di Figaro is my favorite atm. It could change though.



derderderDERRR said:


> Magic Flute - really really stupid.


Why is it stupid? You may not like it, but it's far from stupid.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whereas I send my budgies after the victim's hitmen. Tremble, scum...


:lol: ah, that's a wonderful picture ... straight out of monty p ...


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

You know, the really interesting question is, we've had more than one Mozart poll lately, and they always leave out two or three operas that lots of people are crazy about. Why is that? Is there a Mozart-blindness that affects people creating polls, that prevents them from remembering the existence of masterworks?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

guythegreg said:


> You know, the really interesting question is, we've had more than one Mozart poll lately, and they always leave out two or three operas that lots of people are crazy about. Why is that? Is there a Mozart-blindness that affects people creating polls, that prevents them from remembering the existence of masterworks?


What we need is a poll of polls of all 22.

And bring on the budgies, seems ages since we threatened malcontents with them.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

sospiro said:


> What we need is a poll of polls of all 22.
> 
> And bring on the budgies, seems ages since we threatened malcontents with them.


lol specially trained German attack budgies grr!!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Carpenoctem said:


> It's hard to vote because he wrote beautiful operas, but I think Le nozze di Figaro is my favorite atm. It could change though.
> 
> Why is it stupid? You may not like it, but it's far from stupid.


There are people who think Papageno is a bit of a clown - which he is - and they think any opera with such an absurd character - and magic thrown in - plus a queen of the night - must be a vaudeville - pantomime. There are people who don't understand the dramatic and musical bite - of contrast - between Papegeno - and his earthly needs - and Tamino, a searcher of high spiritual truths - a man destined to be king. I could write much about this - but it's probably futile.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

stomanek said:


> There are people who think Papageno is a bit of a clown - which he is - and they think any opera with such an absurd character - and magic thrown in - plus a queen of the night - must be a vaudeville - pantomime. There are people who don't understand the dramatic and musical bite - of contrast - between Papegeno - and his earthly needs - and Tamino, a searcher of high spiritual truths - a man destined to be king.


That's a good little précis.



stomanek said:


> I could write much about this - but it's probably futile.


Please do, not futile at all. I'll be seeing it live for the first time next year & am garnering all thoughts & opinions to enhance my experience.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

kv466 said:


> I still have wonderful and vivid dreams of this,...dreams I've had since childhood.
> 
> Been a long time since I last enjoyed throughout,...any good dvd recommends, Alma?


Alma has left the room, and nobody else has responded to your urgent question... of a year ago, so:

Never mind DVD; you'd be tempted to watch it. Just listen to the recording made by Beecham and minions, and watch with your mind's eye.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Alma has left the room, and nobody else has responded to your urgent question... of a year ago, so:
> 
> Never mind DVD; you'd be tempted to watch it. Just listen to the recording made by Beecham and minions, and watch with your mind's eye.


Beecham was indeed wonderful and most of the cast but Roswaenge was badly miscast in the role of Tamino ,too stiff and beefy.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

stomanek said:


> I would not worry about people making clowns out of themselves posting foolish comments - just ignore it.
> 
> Le Nozze used to be my favourite - beautiful as it is I find, more so than any other Mozart opera - the music wearing itself out a little. I think this is caused by me knowing the plot so well - so that dramatic bite of the music is lost if you know, for example, that Sussanah is going to emerge from that closet in act 2 looking and souding like sweet innocence itself. I do wonder how audiences at Glyndebourne manage to raise a chuckle at some of the jokes which they must have heard 100s of times and which the singers look like they are preparing for the big moments. I don't get this with the other operas.


It's exactly that--because they have heard/seen it 100 times.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

sospiro said:


> That's a good little précis.
> 
> Please do, not futile at all. I'll be seeing it live for the first time next year & am garnering all thoughts & opinions to enhance my experience.


Don't encourage me. I do hope that your first live perf will be a great one. I hope the music chimes with you as I do know people who are deaf to the wonders of this opera. It's worth knowing the plot before you go in and don't be afraid to feel the free, playful innocence of a child.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

stomanek said:


> Don't encourage me. I do hope that your first live perf will be a great one. I hope the music chimes with you as I do know people who are deaf to the wonders of this opera. It's worth knowing the plot before you go in and don't be afraid to feel the free, playful innocence of a child.


If I know Annie (sospiro), she will have read the libretto until she knows it by heart; listened to the opera over and over, seen every DVD in existence and read anything she can lay her hands on before venturing there. You don't know about opera homework until you meet Annie - she could probably conduct the damn thing from memory.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

derderderDERRR said:


> Don Giovanni - Uneven. I think the last scene is not only the most electrifying scene in all opera, but in pretty much in all of Western theatre.


Now that is a bold statement. I may agree with you on that. But I don't understand how you can say



derderderDERRR said:


> Magic Flute - really really stupid.


If you want to participate in the discussion you should avoid statements like these. At least give us some reasons.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

I can't decide. But, it narrows down to these three: Figaro, Don Giovanni, Magic Flute.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> If I know Annie (sospiro), she will have read the libretto until she knows it by heart; listened to the opera over and over, seen every DVD in existence and read anything she can lay her hands on before venturing there. You don't know about opera homework until you meet Annie - she could probably conduct the damn thing from memory.


 :lol:

I never thought I'd be lucky enough to see this production & with SK










& can't wait to see Simon climb on to the stage


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> If I know Annie (sospiro), she will have read the libretto until she knows it by heart; listened to the opera over and over, seen every DVD in existence and read anything she can lay her hands on before venturing there. You don't know about opera homework until you meet Annie - she could probably conduct the damn thing from memory.


Oh well - I suppose she won't need any of my comments then.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Dongiovanni said:


> Now that is a bold statement. I may agree with you on that. But I don't understand how you can say
> 
> If you want to participate in the discussion you should avoid statements like these. At least give us some reasons.


Such an ill considered opinion can have no reasons worth hearing.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

stomanek said:


> Oh well - I suppose she won't need any of my comments then.


Nooooo!!! Just the opposite!!!! Please I would really love to hear your thoughts on it, I need to know how different people interpret the story.

Please!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I was unable to find that outstanding Mallard toque. Hoping my wife will be happy with the shoes.

View attachment 8288


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

sospiro said:


> Nooooo!!! Just the opposite!!!! Please I would really love to hear your thoughts on it, I need to know how different people interpret the story.
> 
> Please!


I would not want to interpret the opera - I can tell you which bits I like and why. All of it actually of course - but certain moments make life truly worth living. I talked before about contrast - juxtaposition. The music which heralds the triumph of the royal couple through the water and fire is sublime in the highest sense - so profound - leaves your senses reeling - and when that scene ends, before you can recover - "da da daah da" I could watch and listen to the papageno suicide scene thousands of times and never get fed up with it - the three boys - and the sparkling duet - i want it to go and go and last forever.


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## WAWilson (Nov 8, 2011)

You put Seraglio in the poll over Cosi???!!! Blasphemy!!!


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

Serail is far better than cosi.


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## IBMchicago (May 16, 2012)

I picked the Don, but Serail has such gems. Flute is a marvel because it shows how brilliantly Mozart can compose music to such a weak libretto. I don't think any other composer is capable of elevating a schikaneder libretto to a "best ever" category.


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## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

To seek for the "best Mozart Opera" is like you are already on Mount Everest and you're looking for the highest peak. Are you sure you can locate it (not if there is)? And does this matter?
Most of us will still ascending the Mt. Everest of Mozart's Operas. So, we have to enjoy, appreciate, research and study further these masterpieces. Even such a youthful work as "La Finta Giardiniera" is a true gem to cherish.

Principe


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

principe said:


> To seek for the "best Mozart Opera" is like you are already on Mount Everest and you're looking for the highest peak. Are you sure you can locate it (not if there is)? And does this matter?
> Most of us will still ascending the Mt. Everest of Mozart's Operas. So, we have to enjoy, appreciate, research and study further these masterpieces. *Even such a youthful work as "La Finta Giardiniera" is a true gem to cherish.*
> 
> Principe


Once you get past the icky Stockholm syndrome stuff and the general abandonment issues of the title character, that is. But there are some nice arias.


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## WAWilson (Nov 8, 2011)

I will echo everybody who is saying that this is an impossible question, which is why I love Mozart so much. For me the answer is whichever of these three I am listening to at the time: Don Giovanni, Figaro, and Cosi (yes it is insane that Seraglio is in the poll and not Cosi). The DaPonte operas are just too beautiful for the world I see around me everyday. While somewhat trying to avoid the ire of the Magic Flute fans, though I love it, it still puzzles me. I love it, but not in the way as the the DaPonte operas which have people in it that I can love flesh and blood. In Magic Flute, while the music is transcendental, the characters are not. They remain distant to me, in their archetype molds and extreme diversity. Idomeneo is a masterwork as well, but the conventions of the libretto do not allow for the musical brilliance of the others. MOZART/DAPONTE'12


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Why are humble, simplistic plots like the Magic Flute the target of so much snobbery among younger listeners? It's like they critisise it because they think they're expected to: "Surrrely profound feelings can ooooonly be expressed through weighty subject mattahhhhh."


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

obwan said:


> Serail is far better than cosi.


Cosi is divine. I saw it live and it's full of some of Mozart's most gorgeous music; in my opinion, of course. I love both Seraglio and Cosi fan tutte.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

trazom said:


> Why are humble, simplistic plots like the Magic Flute the target of so much snobbery among younger listeners? It's like they critisise it because they think they're expected to: "Surrrely profound feelings can ooooonly be expressed through weighty subject mattahhhhh."


You might expect Magic Flute would appeal more to younger listeners because of the "fairytale style" plot ?


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

principe said:


> To seek for the "best Mozart Opera" is like you are already on Mount Everest and you're looking for the highest peak. Are you sure you can locate it (not if there is)? And does this matter?
> Most of us will still ascending the Mt. Everest of Mozart's Operas. So, we have to enjoy, appreciate, research and study further these masterpieces. Even such a youthful work as "La Finta Giardiniera" is a true gem to cherish.
> 
> Principe


Yes, all this "ranking" seems pointless to me. But, we need threads to discuss our favourite works, so I'm ok with it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I vote for The Rake's Progress.


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

If I had to vote for the music alone, _Cosi_ would get my vote. If I had to vote for 'music + the dramatic aspects,' either _Nozze_ or _Don Giovanni_ would take the crown. I'll go ahead and vote for _Nozze_, although with such an embarrassment of riches sprinkled throughout the four masterworks, it is very tough to single out a clear winner.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Glissando said:


> ... although with such an embarrassment of riches sprinkled throughout the four masterworks, it is very tough to single out a clear winner.


Very well put !


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

I voted for Other because I like the best Così fan tutte. Is the best story and the best music for me. The story makes me think a lot, and the melodies makes me feel so calm...The music themes are united each other and the story goes on almost without pause. 
Some of the highlights for me: "Ah guarda sorella", "soave sia il vento", "come scoglio", "dove sono, che loco è questo?","Il core vi dono(this duet is brilliant)"


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## Amagliani (Jul 28, 2013)

*Don Giovanni:*








*Le nozze di Figaro:*


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

I have more versions of Don Giovanni (both in audio and dvd) than of any other opera, although The Ring comes close. The beauty has an unearthly beauty and perfection that segues surprisingly, but without a jarring note, into the earthy and even buffoonish. Many still consider it the greatest opera ever created, and I can see why. Those whose introduction to opera involved 19th Century (Rossini, followed by bel canto, Romantic and verismo operas), let alone 20th Century operas, may find Mozart a bit of an acquired taste. Allow the paradigm to shift, and he clicks immediately, at least he did for me when I was sixteen. (But let's not bring the Civil War into this.)


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

derderderDERRR said:


> La Clemenza di Tito - I really like this, actually. Bit solemn, but it has an effortless elegance missing in the over-earnest, try-hard Idomeneo.


dude might not be posting anymore but I agree with this sentiment. That's exactly what I like about Clemenza, how off the cuff it is and it still manages to sound great.

I really like Mozart, all of his operatic output that I've heard so far. I like his combo of playfulness and slight (and occasionally not so slight) underground darkness. Picking sounds like a chore.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I have to say The Magic Flute; it was my favourite opera for a time, but I can't really properly sit through the other operas, only highlights perhaps. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking this?


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## mchriste (Aug 16, 2013)

Don Giovanni.
Don Giovanni.
Don Giovanni.
Don Giovanni.
Don Giovanni.

but I love Die Zauberflöte as well! Both Cosi fan Tutte and Le Nozze di Figaro score _much_ lower on my list.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

amfortas said:


> I went to school with him! Great guy.


LOL! Name-dropping are we?


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Air said:


> No opera ever written is as perfect as _Le Nozze di Figaro_.


I couldn't have said it better.


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## aimee (Nov 7, 2013)

I was drawn to operas by Le Nozze di Figaro. Good stuffs to listen to


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I love them all, but is my favorite and I think it is the greatest opera ever written. Cosi and Clemenza should be on this poll. Both are greater works than Seraglio.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Where on earth is Cosi on this poll?


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

I think the Magic Flute is one of the greatest creations of Western civilization. Full Stop!!!


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

gellio said:


> Cosi and Clemenza should be on this poll. Both are greater works than The Flute.


how about that?


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## Freddie von Rost (Dec 3, 2013)

Figaro
Don G
Flute
Seraglio

I think. 

Tito/


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I'll go with the Mozart opera with the best music - Magic Flute.


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

I voted Marriage of Figaro as it is my favourite Mozart opera as a theatrical experience. However as pure music I'd go for The Magic Flute. And if I was going for 'greatest' I'd probably say Don G.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I still have lots of Mozart operas to listen to for the first time. I'm hoping some knowledgeable people who view this thread can help me identify other arias or operas to pursue (Mozart or not) based on the following arias that I have enjoyed so far.

_Il re pastore_
"Alla selva, al prato"
"Si spande al sole in faccia"
"Se vincendo vi rendo felici"

_Cosi fan Tutte_
"Per pieta, ben mio, perdona"

_Die Zauberflote_
"O zittre nicht, mein lieber Sohn"

_La Clemenza di Tito_
"Serbate, oh Dei custodi"
"Ah, se fosse intorno al trono"

Also, are there any common threads between any of these arias (similarities in style, vocal type, etc)? My opera vocabulary is on the novice side.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

bharbeke said:


> _La Clemenza di Tito_
> "Serbate, oh Dei custodi"
> "Ah, se fosse intorno al trono"


*Lucio Silla* is for you. There are a few badass choruses in it kinda like Serbate and Lucio himself has some Tito-like arias.

but how about Idomeneo? Title-man sings along the same noble lines -> *Fuor del mar*.

if you like Se vincendo vi rendo felici, I think *Leporello's whingeing* is irresistible. And the rest of the clip, too


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

Don Giovanni. The first time comedy and melodrama were melded so perfectly.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I can't make up my mind between Figaro and Don Giovanni!!


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

Mitridate, re di Ponto will be performed here. does it worth a look?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

It is, indeed. Only please remember this is Opera Seria, written in a quite different style from the Da Ponte's operas, or the Singspiele. Mozart was also very young, but the music can easily be enjoyed. The vocal writing is very difficult, it was planned for the castrati in the main roles.

You can take a look in youtube:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Cos Fan Tutte for me.
Price, Troyanos , Raskin the ladies and Milnes, Shirley ans Flagello as the man) conducting Maestro Leinsdorf.
Funny , entertainment and a moral


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Pugg said:


> and a moral


I like what you did there


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

How is it that _Cosi fan tutte_ and _Idomeneo_ are missing from this poll?


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

all of them i can not choose


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

_Don Giovanni_ for me


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

As you have missed Cosi fan Tutte which is possibly the greatest ensemble opera ever written. It contains some of Mozart's most inspired numbers including this incredible trio:






That on its own would qualify it for greatness!


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

_Figaro_ was the first opera I ever loved, and it remains my favorite almost 25 years later. I would rank (for me) Mozart's three best as _Figaro_, _Don Giovanni_ and _Idomeneo_.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Rachmanijohn said:


> The first time comedy and melodrama were melded so perfectly.


That was _Figaro_. 

But, it is certainly perfect in _Don Giovanni_ as well.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

trazom said:


> Cosi is divine. I saw it live and it's full of some of Mozart's most gorgeous music; in my opinion, of course. I love both Seraglio and Cosi fan tutte.


I love both too, but there is no doubt that _Cosi_ is far superior to _Seraglio_, even though I like _Seraglio_ better than _Cosi_, I think the other six mature operas are all better works than _Seraglio_.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I also voted for _*Die Zauberflöte*_, and join others to cite the lapse of leaving out _Cosi fan tutte_, _Idomeneo_ and _La Clemenza di Tito_. Those last two are ones I don't know, and should rectify that asap. I keep hoping *Teodor Currentzis* will release his _Die Zauberflöte_.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Where is the None of the Above option?


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I can't make up my mind between Figaro , Cosi and Don Giovanni


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

I would rather listen to zauberflöte than suffer through the inane theatrics.... meanwhile cosi is incredible theatre and music


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

SixFootScowl said:


> Where is the None of the Above option?


It's at the bottom marked "other," you probably missed it.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

trazom said:


> It's at the bottom marked "other," you probably missed it.


Well, actually, that was another of my "none of the aboves."


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm rocking with Don G, though I have not heard or seen Cosí fan tutte. I need to rectify that... does someone want to recommend a good recording to me?

Edit: Any love for the Gardiner?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> I'm rocking with Don G, though I have not heard or seen Cosí fan tutte. I need to rectify that... does someone want to recommend a good recording to me?
> 
> Edit: Any love for the Gardiner?


For my money, the best are the Böhm on EMI with Schwarzkopf and Ludwig, and the Lombard on Erato with Te Kanawa and Von Stade.















The Gadner is OK


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

SixFootScowl said:


> Well, actually, that was another of my "none of the aboves."


Then why not post on threads that concerns music you _do_ like where you have something of substance to add to the conversation? Just a suggestion.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> I'm rocking with Don G, though I have not heard or seen Cosí fan tutte. I need to rectify that... does someone want to recommend a good recording to me?
> 
> Edit: Any love for the Gardiner?


*Gardiner*'s recordings were the first ones I had, and they are still my go-to recordings. I generally lean toward PI performance, but I have since expanded to include most of the previous Mozart opera interpreters: *Bohm*, *Krips*, *Abbado*, *Karajan*, *Klemperer*, *Christie*, *Currentzis*, *Jacobs*, *Harnoncourt*, *Norrington*, *Giulini*, *Solti*, *Keilberth*, and most recently *Yannick Nézet-Séguin*, who has recorded several of Mozart operas, and done a pretty good job with them.

_Cosi fan tutte _was my first love, but I've not heard a Mozart opera I did not enjoy. This week I began with _Die Zauberflote_, then went on to _Idomeneo_, and will continue until I've listened to the seven major works. Spotify is great for this kind of thing,. since most of the recordings can be found.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

trazom said:


> Then why not post on threads that concerns music you _do_ like where you have something of substance to add to the conversation? Just a suggestion.


Good point. And there is *another Mozart Opera poll with more selections* that works for me. I should have done a little searching first.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

flamencosketches,

Yes, Gardiner is good in Mozart operas. I partly agree with critic David Hurwitz, who recently claimed that Gardiner is at his best as an "accompanist", either in choral music, opera, or in a concerto. For me, Gardiner's Marriage of Figaro is probably the best outing in his Mozart opera survey on Archiv (along with Idomeneo). But the Cosi is good, too:






However, it wouldn't be my first choice ...

On video, I'd most recommend the 2006 Glyndebourne production with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (a period band), conducted by Ivan Fischer, which is first rate:






https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7980858--mozart-cosi-fan-tutte-k588

Among alternative period recordings (to Gardiner), there's also Rene Jacobs and Concerto Koln--who admirably dust the cobwebs off the work & are probably my first choice on CD (without having sat down & compared all of them carefully); as well as Arnold Östman and the Drottingholm Court Theatre Orchestra (in two separate performances & casts--on video, at the historic Drottingholm Theater, with actual 18th century stage sets and a Swedish cast, and with the orchestra & conductor authentically costumed & wearing wigs--it's a lot of fun, and on CD, with a more star-studded international cast of singers--Yakar, Nafé, Krause, etc.).










More controversial, but with some good reviews, nevertheless, there's also a period recording by conductor Teodor Currentzis & MusicAeterna to consider, however, I've not heard it myself: 



.

Unfortunately, a period recording from William Christie doesn't exist, as far as I know. Which is too bad because Christie was a great Mozart conductor.

Finally, there's also the 'classic' older recordings, from the likes of Bohm, (Sir Colin) Davis, Karajan, etc., that I'm sure others will chime in on... EDIT: I see they already have.

As for my voting above, The Magic Flute is my 'favorite' Mozart opera (which I first encountered in Ingmar Bergman's remarkable film), yet I'd consider Don Giovanni to be his greatest opera.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

SixFootScowl said:


> Where is the None of the Above option?


Some might say that Mozart's Requiem was his best opera!

N.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I agree re: Gardiner as an accompanist. All of my favorite recordings of his are choral or vocal works. Thanks, MAS, Josquin, and SanAntone for the suggestions. I will start looking for the one for me. 

As someone who generally finds opera plots to be stupid, am I incorrect in assuming that I will find this one exceptionally stupid?


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> I agree re: Gardiner as an accompanist. All of my favorite recordings of his are choral or vocal works. Thanks, MAS, Josquin, and SanAntone for the suggestions. I will start looking for the one for me.
> 
> As someone who generally finds opera plots to be stupid, am I incorrect in assuming that I will find this one exceptionally stupid?


Did you ever found a good Le Nozze di Figaro?????


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Rogerx said:


> Did you ever found a good Le Nozze di Figaro?????


I bought the Solti/London Philharmonic, but when I got it I realized there was no booklet, and I haven't listened to it yet.


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## Geoff48 (Aug 15, 2020)

I think my favourite Mozart opera is the one I heard most recently. If pushed I would probably opt for Figaro. And if I had to choose a single version I’d probably go for the 1956 bi centenary celebration Kleiber originally issued on Decca. Yes I know it is plain with no ornamentation and the Vienna Philharmonic is no chamber Orchestra but it flows beautifully and Lisa Della Casa is a glorious Rosina and Siepi unrivalled as Figaro. And the Viennese singers seem to sing as a team rather than just individuals. The contemporaneous Don with Krips and Cosi with Bohm are something special too.


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## Hele (Aug 26, 2020)

Idomeneo. Although difficult to stage, the music, in my opinion is extraordinary, even for Mozart


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## ManuelMozart95 (Sep 29, 2018)

I'm between Le Nozze di Figaro and Don Giovanni. These two are no doubt the most perfect Mozart Operas in my book.
Die Zauberflöte is also great but the libretto is not so strong. Da Ponte was really a genius and often underrated. His prose is very poetic and all his libretti are very dynamic.

His trilogy with Mozart is simply perfect (yes including Cosí).
These three Operas really work as just one. All of them could take place at the same time and all of them are centered around the idea of faithfulness, cheating, etc.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

flamencosketches said:


> I agree re: Gardiner as an accompanist. All of my favorite recordings of his are choral or vocal works. Thanks, MAS, Josquin, and SanAntone for the suggestions. I will start looking for the one for me.
> 
> As someone who generally finds opera plots to be stupid, am I incorrect in assuming *that I will find this one exceptionally stupid? *


Figaro is a farce. Beware if you have no sense of humour!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

ManuelMozart95 said:


> I'm between Le Nozze di Figaro and Don Giovanni. These two are no doubt the most perfect Mozart Operas in my book.
> Die Zauberflöte is also great but the libretto is not so strong. Da Ponte was really a genius and often underrated. His prose is very poetic and all his libretti are very dynamic.
> 
> His trilogy with Mozart is simply perfect (yes including Cosí).
> These three Operas really work as just one. All of them could take place at the same time and all of them are centered around the idea of faithfulness, cheating, etc.


The Da Ponte trilogy are sometimes grouped together (there are a couple of box sets at least with all three with the same conductor). I think Da Ponte can sometimes be underrated (especially by English speaking audiences where most people don't understand the quality of the original Italian texts). In Italy they are still studied at age 16 or 17 as part of Italian literature due to how good the writing is. You can say what you like about the plots of those operas (but at least two were based on existing models which dictated what had to happen in them storywise. The actual words used by Da Ponte are vibrant and 'modern' or rather his writing has a timelessness to it that means his phrases still resonate today.

N.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> I bought the Solti/London Philharmonic, but when I got it I realized there was no booklet, and I haven't listened to it yet.


Look in some brickbrack shop, must be a booklet somewhere for very cheap.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

flamencosketches said:


> I bought the Solti/London Philharmonic, but when I got it I realized there was no booklet, and I haven't listened to it yet.


There is an english translation of the libretto here

http://www.murashev.com/opera/Le_nozze_di_Figaro_libretto_English_Act_0


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Cosi Fan Tutte. 

Cosi, Figaro and Don Giovanni are essentially tied for me, but I give the slight nod to Cosi. The Magic Flute is 4th.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> I bought the Solti/London Philharmonic, but when I got it I realized there was no booklet, and I haven't listened to it yet.


That's strange, the Decca sets usually come with libretto/notes. Unless you bought it used?


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> I bought the Solti/London Philharmonic, but when I got it I realized there was no booklet, and I haven't listened to it yet.


The hands down best recording of _Figaro_ is that by René Jacobs.


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