# Shostakovich Symphony #5



## science

If I'm only going to have one recording of it, what would you recommend? 

And, if I'm going to have a second and a third, which would you recommend? 

(Sorry. I don't think I'll have more than 3. But you can suggest away regardless.)


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## emiellucifuge

Gergiev, the disc with the 9th as well.

There is none better at capturing the sarcasm of this symphony.


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## science

Thank you. It looks like a good choice.

I'm tempted by Bernstein and Rostropovich as well. Any opinion on those?


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## myaskovsky2002

*Rozhdesvensky's a wise choice*

He was a close friend to the composer....Bernstein is good too.

Martin


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## david johnson

Mitropoulos / nypo


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## science

Well, I picked up Gergiev today, and we'll see how that goes!


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## Delicious Manager

I would not recommend Bernstein or Rostropvich. Bernstein is (as he was so often inclined to be) too idionsyncratic. His first movement is WAY too slow (it's marked _Moderato_, not _Adagio_!). Rostropovich was a great musician - a superb cellist, accomplished pianist and great friend of Shostakovitch. But he was a LOUSY conductor and his 5th does NOTHING for me (as none of his other studio Shostakovich symphonies do anything for me).

Gergiev is pretty good, but he is a Prokofiev man rather than a Shostakovich one (oddly, few conductors do both composers equally well). The new ultra-cheap recording on Naxos by the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic conducted by Vasily Petrenko deserves all its plaudits and I would recommend this recording very highly (and it includes a very good 9th too).

Also excellent is the classic 1960s recording by the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra under Karel Ančerl. The sound is a little ropey now by modern digital standards, but the performance is very fine.

If only Maxim Shostakovich's 1972 recording with the USSR Symphony Orchestra had been released on CD (it never has been, astoundingly), as this wold be the obvious first choice.

And if you can get hold of it, look-out for Yevgeny Mravinsky's Leningrad Phil performance live from the 1978 Vienna Festwochen. Simply staggering in its intensity and faithfulness to the score.


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## World Violist

I suppose the only reason Bernstein's recording is famous is because they play the hell out of the finale, but he even gets the finale wrong and plays it _way_ too fast. I mean... Shostakovich wrote metronome markings into his score, and Bernstein occasionally goes about twice as fast. I usually don't care much for metronome markings, but in the case of this symphony they're very useful to follow.

I've heard a recording by Kurt Sanderling and the Berlin Symphony that was very good... the only problem was that the brass weren't strong enough for it, so I don't know if I can recommend it in good conscience. Great interpretation, though; maybe a good 2nd or 3rd recording.


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## Delicious Manager

World Violist said:


> Bernstein occasionally goes about twice as fast. I usually don't care much for metronome markings, but in the case of this symphony they're very useful to follow.


Bernstein doesn't understand the finale at all and completely ruins it. Possibly the worst recording I've heard of this movement.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Delicious Manager said:


> Bernstein... [p]ossibly the worst recording I've heard of this movement.


Hmmm.

D'ya ever hear _Bychkov_?

I have Haitink as part of the cycle- and it's nice enough- but I still miss the Naxos- Rahbari.

I could stand an upgrade here- and would happily tune into more discussion on this front.:tiphat:


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## myaskovsky2002

*a wonderful version on vynil*

The very first I bought....on vynil...ORQ. SYMPH. WARSAWA - DIR. WITOLD ROWICKI

in 1968.....LOL

Mravinsky, Provatorov, Rozhdestvensky are great possibilities.

Martin


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## Vaneyes




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## christmashtn

Maxim's Melodiya 5th was indeed briefly available as a Melodiya/RCA Gold seal CD re-issue in the late 90's. Copies might be on amazon, but perhaps a bit pricey due to its now scarcity.


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## Delicious Manager

christmashtn said:


> Maxim's Melodiya 5th was indeed briefly available as a Melodiya/RCA Gold seal CD re-issue in the late 90's. Copies might be on amazon, but perhaps a bit pricey due to its now scarcity.


Well, well, well! You're right! I have found a reasonably-priced copy on Amazon USA and have ordered it. Thank you for bringing my attention to it.


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## hespdelk

Bernstein's reading is indeed idioscynratic.. but I still love it! 

In more modern sound (espcially if your a fan of SACD) I second the Gergiev reading.


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## kmisho

I recently listened to these versions: Haitink, Barshai, Kondraishin. The Barhsai is a surprisingly great cycle and there's nothing wrong his 5th. But I still think Haitink's 5th is the best.


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## Delicious Manager

Kondrashin's 5th was one of the weaker of his Shostakovich set and I don't usually recommend it. I have now aquired a CD copy of the Maxim Shostakovich/USSR Symphony Orchestra recording and remain convinced of its fine pedigree.


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## christmashtn

Due to the famousness of the late 1950's Bernstein recording, Bernstein's second recording of the 5th, also with the New York Phil., and also on Sony/BMG is frequently overlooked. This was taped live in Tokyo, Japan in 1979 (I believe it is indeed the same performance available on DVD.) The 1st Mvt. is slow still, but a little bit less. Lenny knew he recorded the finale way too fast the first time, and though still fast in '79, it is less so and more right sounding. He does not rush the final chords here, and even gives them a resounding proper sound of irony. My favorite 5th was/is the late 60's Ormandy/Philadelphia which was on Columbia Masterworks LP originally, and re-issued briefly on Sony Essential Classics during the 90's. It was paired with orchestral highlights from Prokofiev's "The Love for Three Oranges" and the Polka from Shostakovich's "Age of Gold." All are very fine performances indeed. The entire CD will give you much listening pleasure. You should be able to find some surplus or second hand copies on amazon I would think. I also agree with the Ancerl/Czech Phil. performance mentioned above, but I do prefer the 60's Ormandy.


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## Llyranor

I'll be attending some concerts this month where I'll be able to listen to the 5th and 9th (for the first time). Checking out potential CDs, it seems they're often bundled together. The contenders for me right now are: Gergiev, Haitink, Petrenko. Any further recommendations?

(Is Gergiev's 'War symphonies' set any good? - includes 4-to-9, though relatively a bit pricey at about 60$)
(alternately, I could get a 5-cd set of Petrenko, incl. 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 for 30$, from a Naxos sale)
(or would getting the full cycle by Maxim Shostakovich be worth it?)

I'm just getting acquainted with Shostakovich. Just heard his 1st violin concerto (Oistrakh playing) yesterday. The 3rd movement/passacaglia... Words fail me - just fantastic!


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## Conor71

Vaneyes said:


>


I have the Haitink Cycle and think its very strong, idiomatic and in excellent sound - mostly very good performances too apart from the 1st and 2nd which are a bit shabby - excellent 5th! .

The other 5th's Ive heard are from Jansons and Rostropovich with the NSO - The Latter was my first exposure to this Symphony and I rate it very highly too!.


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## Guest

I like Yakov Kreizberg's (R.I.P.) on Pentatone. The coda is played rather slowly and has massive power. 

Lately, Gergiev has not worked for me (He used to be one of my favorites). I haven't heard his 5th, but his 11th is shockingly low-powered, as is his Mahler cycle. He all but phoned in Mahler's 5th! The audio on the LSO Live label is mastered at an extremely low level, as are the Mariinsky recordings, which further blunts their impact.


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## Manxfeeder

Is anyone familiar with Yuri Ahronovitch with the Stockholm Philharmonic? It sounds good to me, but I'm not an expert on these things yet.


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## hammeredklavier

A recently-uploaded documentary about the symphony:


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## Ulfilas

Jansons with VPO was recommended on Building a Library a few years ago, and I wholeheartedly concur.


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## Heck148

I love Bernstein's famous '59 recording....very exciting, dramatic, thrilling...must have been something live in Boston Symphony Hall. NYPO sounds fabulous, some super playing from all sections. Yes, he takes the finale at a lightning clip, but it's thoroughly convincing, I find it much more effective than the slower tempo...(from experience, composers don't always get it right with tempo)...Lenny moves the closing pages right along as well, and this works very well. At the slow, drawn out tempo, the brass begins to run out of gas, sustaining the rising line at a slow tempo is very taxing...the faster tempo produces a tremendous climax...Previn/CSO is very good also, often coupled with their superb DS #4.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I think Bernstein's tempo in the finale actually conveys the "stupid, sarcastic" nature of Shostakovich's intentions better than the deadly-slow ones - it truly sounds empty, vapid, and bombastic like a sardonic mockery of Soviet propaganda. The slow versions actually give me more of a "hard-earned victory" sensation, which is not how I see it.


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## adriesba

I have two recordings: the Bernstein recording and this obscure recording I got at a local FYE (who knows how they got it; I can barely find it on the internet)

View attachment 132385


It's decent I guess, but I think perhaps I should try another.

I tend to agree that the Bernstein finale is too fast, especially if he's going way faster than what Shostakovich himself wanted (I don't know much Theory, so I can't say).


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## Heck148

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I think Bernstein's tempo in the finale actually conveys the "stupid, sarcastic" nature of Shostakovich's intentions better than the deadly-slow ones - it truly sounds empty, vapid, and bombastic like a sardonic mockery of Soviet propaganda. The slow versions actually give me more of a "hard-earned victory" sensation, which is not how I see it.


I like how Bernstein's finale just explodes, erupts, in this furious tidal wave of sound energy that continues uninterrupted for minutes on end...remarkable...I agree, I don't hear a great triumphant "victory" here...


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## Heck148

adriesba said:


> I tend to agree that the Bernstein finale is too fast, especially if he's going way faster than what Shostakovich himself wanted (I don't know much Theory, so I can't say).


But Shostakovich liked it when Bernstein conducted it in Russia, with DS in the audience...in my experience, composers often respond positively to performance tempo that differ from the one they indicated...it may shed whole new light on a work.


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## adriesba

Heck148 said:


> But Shostakovich liked it when Bernstein conducted it in Russia, with DS in the audience...in my experience, composers often respond positively to performance tempo that differ from the one they indicated...it may shed whole new light on a work.


Interesting, maybe I'll have to look into it more. I just wish I understood Theory more.


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## apricissimus

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I think Bernstein's tempo in the finale actually conveys the "stupid, sarcastic" nature of Shostakovich's intentions better than the deadly-slow ones - it truly sounds empty, vapid, and bombastic like a sardonic mockery of Soviet propaganda. The slow versions actually give me more of a "hard-earned victory" sensation, which is not how I see it.


I must be a rube because I never picked up on the sarcastic nature of the last movement until I had read it was intended to be by the composer.


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## KenOC

apricissimus said:


> I must be a rube because I never picked up on the sarcastic nature of the last movement until I had read it was intended to be by the composer.


Certainly the original audience didn't hear any of that "your business is rejoicing" stuff. The applause went on and on, while the conductor held the score over his head to the cheers of the audience.

Critic Alexei Tolstoy wrote that in the first movement, the composer-hero suffers a psychological crisis giving rise to a burst of energy. The second movement provides respite. In the third movement, the personality begins to form: "Here the personality submerges itself in the great epoch that surrounds it, and begins to resonate with the epoch." With the finale, Tolstoy wrote, came victory, "an enormous optimistic lift." As for the ecstatic reaction of the audience to the work, Tolstoy claimed it showed Shostakovich's perestroyka to be sincere. (from Wiki)

The more cynical view of the finale came much later, from a single source of disputed authenticity - Volkov's book _Testimony_. For myself, I suspect Dmitri simply heard it as music, and its shape and emotional charge came to him like most of his music, that is, naturally.


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## DaddyGeorge

I'm not sure it should be the number one choice but I really like Nelsons with Boston...


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## flamencosketches

I just listened to the Petrenko/RLPO recording of the 5th today. I liked the slow ending. First time I've heard it like that. I'll have to return to the Bernstein/NYP. I remember the finale of that one reminding me of the Mahler 7th finale, big and kind of bombastic.


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## Kiki

^

The thing about Vasily Petrenko's Shostakovich for me is that he seems to understand the emotions in the music very well so everything I hear seems to make sense. Some critics believe that the ending of No. 5 is a “forced rejoicing”. Honestly I could never see it as a plain “good defeating evil”. It’s more like a sarcastic but very much refrained mockery of his pathetic situation in which he has to conform to survive. IMO V. Petrenko has brought that out rather successfully.


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## flamencosketches

Kiki said:


> ^
> 
> The thing about Vasily Petrenko's Shostakovich for me is that he seems to understand the emotions in the music very well so everything I hear seems to make sense. Some critics believe that the ending of No. 5 is a "forced rejoicing". Honestly I could never see it as a plain "good defeating evil". It's more like a sarcastic but very much refrained mockery of his pathetic situation in which he has to conform to survive. IMO V. Petrenko has brought that out rather successfully.


Interesting perspective! Thanks for sharing. Do you think your knowledge of the history behind the piece is coloring your perspective of that recording? Or better yet, to what extent? Ie. Do you think someone naïve about the circumstances in which the 5th symphony was brought into the world might hear it the same way you do?

FWIW, I thought Petrenko brought out something similar to what you describe, quite nicely.


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## Heck148

The ending of Shost #5, to me, does not indicate a glorious triumph..."mockery, forced rejoicing"..perhaps, or incomplete victory, "so near, yet so far", whatever...why do I say this?? Shostakovich, in the closing section, with it's great climax, building in the upward climb of the brass, does not culminate on the tonic -"D"....but rather on "C" - the flat 7th of the tonic...iow - "almost, but not quite", despite incredible struggle...


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## KenOC

The ending of DSCH's 5th suggests, to me, "Turn the volume up!" Yes, Petrenko's approach is impressive. His final crescendo is five minutes long!


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## Josquin13

I'd recommend starting with conductor Evgeny Mravinsky in Shostakovich's 5th. He recorded several mono versions, such as on Russian Disc; however, from what I've heard, these early recordings can be challenging sound-wise. Therefore, I'd recommend Mravinsky's 1981 Melodiya recording as my first choice for this conductor, and his 1984 live recording on Erato as a second choice, since they're both in stereo and with his famed Leningrad Philharmonic (which was a great orchestra). There's also a 1973 Mravinsky/Leningrad P.O. recording on You Tube, and you could start there, too, but the sound is slightly worn & distorted at times on the video tape. If you do begin with Mravinsky, then every other Shostakovich 5th that you hear after that will be measured against what Mravinsky does with this symphony: which should help you to better judge whether the other recordings have interpretative depth or not. For example, very few conductors I've heard sound as chilling and frightening at the opening of the 1st movement, as Mravinsky does.

1981 (from the Mravinsky Edition on Melodiya, if I'm not mistaken?):





1984 (it sounds a lot better on the Erato disc):





https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-5-D...rato+symphony+5&qid=1585679407&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/%E3%82%B7%E3...c&sr=1-1-dd5817a1-1ba7-46c2-8996-f96e7b0f409c
https://www.amazon.com/Mravinsky-Co...shostakovich+5&qid=1585774508&s=music&sr=1-16

1973: 




I've not heard Mravinsky's 1965 live recording on Praga (& Le chant du monde), which is likewise with the Leningrad Philharmonic, but it is apparently badly recorded:
https://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich...shostakovich+5&qid=1585774508&s=music&sr=1-10
https://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich...+shostakovich+5&qid=1585774508&s=music&sr=1-4

My second pick is Gennadi Rozhdestvensky, who was also a friend of Shostakovich's. In my opinion, Rozhdestvensky was as deeply attuned to the world of this music as Mravinsky was: 




I'm undecided about my third pick, but the choice would be between either Kurt Sanderling, Kirill Kondrashin, or Paavo Berglund--who were all superb Shostakovich conductors:

--Kurt Sanderling, Berlin Sinfonie-Orchester (on Berlin Classics): 



--Kirill Kondrashin, Moscow Philharmonic S.O.: 



--Paavo Berglund, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra:
https://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich...+shostakovich+5&qid=1585767111&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Icon-Paavo-B...o+Berglund+icon&qid=1585767201&s=music&sr=1-1

In addition, if you wish to have one recording in modern digital sound, I'm not sure who my first choice would be, but I'd recommend that you consider the 5ths by conductors Bernard Haitink, Oleg Caetani Gunther Herbig, Maris Jansons, Rudolf Barshai, Maxim Shostakovich, Yakov Kreizberg, and Kurt Masur. While others have liked Mstislav Rostropovich on DG:

--Bernard Haitink, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra: 




--Oleg Caetani, Orchestra Sinfonica di Milano Giuseppe Verdi--Caetani has the right pedigree for this music, being the son of Igor Markevitch, and a conducting pupil of Kirill Kondrashin, but what he doesn't have is a 1st tier orchestra (although his Italian orchestra is good): 




--Gunther Herbig is an excellent Shostakovich (& Mahler) conductor that gets unfairly overlooked: https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-5-D...lin+classic s&qid=1585767470&s=music&sr=1-10

--Rudolf Barshai, WDR Symphony Orchestra Cologne: 




--Maris Jansons, I'm not sure which Jansons recording is 'the best', so I'll provide links to several. Personally, I've most liked Jansons' Bavarian Radio S.O. 5th, but I can only find it on You Tube:

1. Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks (or Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra): 



2. Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra, an early live recording (a rarity): 



3. EMI, Vienna Philharmonic, live recording (this is the performance in the Janson EMI Shostakovich cycle. I don't think the Vienna Philharmonic is the right orchestra for this music, personally): 




I've not heard Jansons' earlier Oslo Philharmonic 5th in the studio, but EMI chose his live Vienna Philharmonic recording over it for the Jansons box set cycle (if that means anything): https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-5-S...vich+5+jansons&qid=1585766022&s=music&sr=1-12

--Maxim Shostakovich, London Symphony Orchestra, Collins label (I've not heard his earlier 1970s USSR recording on RCA): 




--Yakov Kreizberg, Russian National Orchestra, Pentatone hybrid SACD--this recording makes a very good top audiophile pick, IMO, as it offers an unusually vivid sound experience: https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-5...h+5+penta tone&qid=1585769142&s=music&sr=1-1

--IMO, Rostropovich was a better cellist than he was a conductor, and he didn't have a great orchestra in Washington, either. I don't think his 5th is especially well conducted, but others consider it to be one of the great Shostakovich 5ths on record, and I have to admit that Rostropovich deeply understands the emotional & psychological content of this music: 




--For an alternative view of the 5th to the above, Kurt Masur was a better Shostakovich conductor than people might think--though some may find his 5th too tame (it comes coupled with an excellent 1st): https://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich...+5+rostropovich&qid=1585679645&s=music&sr=1-1

I've not heard the Bernstein, Bychkov, or Petrenko 5ths.


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## flamencosketches

^Thanks for the write-up. You've convinced me I need to hear a Mravinsky recording of this symphony. I have, as part of the "Bach Guild Big Shostakovich Box" download, a Mravinsky/LPO recording of the Shostakovich 5th, and it's quite old—no clue from when, but it's in rough mono. I'll give it a listen, but I'd like to check out the 1984 Erato recording which sounds quite good and is relatiely cheap. (I don't want to fall in love with the other recording and have to shell out $150 for it :lol:...)

If you do get to checking out the Petrenko/RLPO recording, do let us know what you think. It's pretty good, I think. Not that you need any more DSCH 5's, you've got a lot on your plate already!


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## Kiki

flamencosketches said:


> Interesting perspective! Thanks for sharing. Do you think your knowledge of the history behind the piece is coloring your perspective of that recording? Or better yet, to what extent? Ie. Do you think someone naïve about the circumstances in which the 5th symphony was brought into the world might hear it the same way you do?
> 
> FWIW, I thought Petrenko brought out something similar to what you describe, quite nicely.


Reading about the background does affect how I perceive the music. However, it is only meaningful if one hears in the music what the scholars/critics/performers/composers have said, not to mention expert opinions don't always align. There is a judgement call for the listener to make.

In this symphony, for me, something subtly does not sound quite right as a "good defeating evil" symphony, and that may be explained by some scholars' "forced rejoicing" theory.

If one does not hear that (with or without background knowledge), that's fine, as we all perceive different things from the same piece of music. In that case I'd probably leave the debate to the scholars.

Just my two cents.


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## Kiki

Mravinsky's Shostakovich is a nightmare for record collectors. Misprinted recording dates, added applause, even allegedly incorrect tape playback speed during mastering...

Among the ones I know, the 84 Live (Erato) and the 54 Studio (Melodiya) are relatively speaking mellower. 

For more grit, there are 3 live recordings released by Altus, 73 Live in Leningrad, also 73 Live in Tokyo, and 78 Live in Vienna. 

There is also a re-mastered version of the gritty 66 Live (Russian Disc) released by Audiophile Classics. (Its booklet says it was recorded in 1983, but some have compared and concluded they are the same performance.)

There are obviously many others...


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## perdido34

Josquin13 said:


> --IMO, Rostropovich was a better cellist than he was a conductor, and he didn't have a great orchestra in Washington, either. I don't think his 5th is especially well conducted, but others consider it to be one of the great Shostakovich 5ths on record, and I have to admit that Rostropovich deeply understands the emotional & psychological content of this music:


Rostropovich recorded the 5th twice with the National Symphony--the recording on DG is much more intense than his later one on Teldec. Both are better in performance and sound than the LSO version released on LSO Live.


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## Mathias Broucek

Kiki said:


> Mravinsky's Shostakovich is a nightmare for record collectors. Misprinted recording dates, added applause, even allegedly incorrect tape playback speed during mastering...
> 
> Among the ones I know, the 84 Live (Erato) and the 54 Studio (Melodiya) are relatively speaking mellower.
> 
> For more grit, there are 3 live recordings released by Altus, 73 Live in Leningrad, also 73 Live in Tokyo, and 78 Live in Vienna.


The 1973 Tokyo is quite something. It also has better sound and less coughing than most of his live material. But needs to be imported from Japan (I was lucky enough to visit there last year - Mecca for record collectors).


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## HenryPenfold

Mathias Broucek said:


> The 1973 Tokyo is quite something. It also has better sound and less coughing than most of his live material. But needs to be imported from Japan (I was lucky enough to visit there last year - Mecca for record collectors).


Can you recommend which sellers to import from? Also, in relation to your visit last year, which shops are worth a visit (if we get through all this, I plan on visiting Japan).


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## Allegro Con Brio

I recently heard Stokowski's 1958 (?) version in New York. White-hot stuff! I wouldn't have expected Stoky to be a top-shelf Shosty interpreter due to his consistent emphasis on voluptuous sound, but he really pulls it off well. Big climaxes, heartfelt pathos, sensuous but necessarily rough-hewn playing, and a thrilling coda that's not quite as bombastic as Bernstein but still very satisfying (though perhaps it's not supposed to be satisfying and rather crushing?) No matter - it may now be my favorite version, even though you do miss to an extent the sheer rawness and unrefinement of the Russian school.


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## Heck148

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I recently heard Stokowski's 1958 (?) version in New York. White-hot stuff! I wouldn't have expected Stoky to be a top-shelf Shosty interpreter due to his consistent emphasis on voluptuous sound, but he really pulls it off well. Big climaxes, heartfelt pathos, sensuous but necessarily rough-hewn playing, and a thrilling coda that's not quite as bombastic as Bernstein but still very satisfying (though perhaps it's not supposed to be satisfying and rather crushing?) No matter - it may now be my favorite version, even though you do miss to an extent the sheer rawness and unrefinement of the Russian school.


Stoki was a great Shostakovich conductor...in addition to his excellent #5, which you enjoy, he led a fine #11 with Houston. quite a sound spectacular in its day, it still measures up well today...and of course, there is the stellar, "legendary" #10 that he conducted in Chicago, 3/66, (CSO archival set "1st 100 Years") the best performance I've ever heard of that work, remarkable for its power, energy and dramatic sweep...an "edge of your seat" thriller, a real classic.


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## Mathias Broucek

HenryPenfold said:


> Can you recommend which sellers to import from? Also, in relation to your visit last year, which shops are worth a visit (if we get through all this, I plan on visiting Japan).


Disk Union Shinjuku Second Hand Record Store. You need about 10 hours, Luckily there is a toilet... Also, go back as they get new stock daily. The branch I visited in Osaka was also terrific. Amazing stock, stuff that's VERY hard to find and quite cheap - Sanderling's Beethoven cycle for £5....

For new, Tower Records in Shibuya has some amazing live material.

Key issue with imports is whether you are at risk of being charged VAT plus handling fee.


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