# Composition contest: Instrumentation poll for round 1



## DaDirkNL

Choose a group of instruments from wich the participants of the contest can choose from.
What I did, was make a list of all the instruments the internet gives me on each sort of instrument.
I filled those in on a random choosing website. I took the first 10 instruments it gave me and filled those in on the poll. I typed this down so you know that this poll was made at complete random.

*For the first poll option: Brass and wind ensemble I took the following instruments:*
Piccolo
Flute
Oboe
Clarinet
Recorder
Saxophone
Bassoon
Horn
Trumpet
Trombone
Euphonium
Tuba
Cornet

FYI: Every instrument on the list represents any kind of version made of it. So for example: Clarinet represents the Eb, Bb, A, Bass, alto, contra-alto and contra-bass clarinet.

*For the second option:*
Violin
Viola
Cello
Contrabass
Harp
Guitar
Banjo
Mandolin
Lute
Dulcimer
Ukelele
Zither
Sitar
Gamba

*For the third option:*
Timpani
Bells
Glockenspiel
Xylophone
Vybraphone
Marimba
Chimes
Bell tree
Cymbals
Cowbell
Tambourine
Snare drums
Gong

*For the last option I took all the woodwinds and the bowed instruments from the other options and together they made 10.*


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## PetrB

I for one am not much at all interested in a competition where the instrumental categories are type / family homogenous.

My taste finds mixed ensembles, either chamber groups smaller than ten players, or larger (chamber orchestra), far more interesting than a requirement that the ensemble be a dectet of homogenous instruments-- though in reality the lesser numbers are what are the more practical re: the possibility of getting one's work done until you are are more widely known. 

Just sayin'... I think if you do make a requirement such as ten players and a choice of one famlial-homogenous group of instruments, you may find far fewer potential entrants interested in writing for an ensemble of those dispositions, though that could be entirely 'just me.'

...maybe you meant choose up to ten instruments from those various groups?


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## DaDirkNL

PetrB said:


> I for one am not much at all interested in a competition where the instrumental categories are type / family homogenous.
> 
> My taste finds mixed ensembles, either chamber groups smaller than ten players, or larger (chamber orchestra), far more interesting than a requirement that the ensemble be a dectet of homogenous instruments-- though in reality the lesser numbers are what are the more practical re: the possibility of getting one's work done until you are are more widely known.
> 
> Just sayin'... I think if you do make a requirement such as ten players and a choice of one famlial-homogenous group of instruments, you may find far fewer potential entrants interested in writing for an ensemble of those dispositions, though that could be entirely 'just me.'
> 
> ...maybe you meant choose up to ten instruments from those various groups?


Well, you know, I was going to make it more general. So, 5 winds or something. Then someone made a comment making a fair point about the comfort zone we want people to get out of.

I just realized, that these poll options are flawed, because when they choose 4 instruments from the strings, they are probably going to choose violin, viola, cello and contrabass. Because, you know, comfort zone.

That's why I am going to change it, and make it a bit more varied.
What options for the poll would you recommend?


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## PetrB

DaDirkNL said:


> Well, you know, I was going to make it more general. So, 5 winds or something. Then someone made a comment making a fair point about the comfort zone we want people to get out of.
> 
> I just realized, that these poll options are flawed, because when they choose 4 instruments from the strings, they are probably going to choose violin, viola, cello and contrabass. Because, you know, comfort zone.
> 
> That's why I am going to change it, and make it a bit more varied.
> What options for the poll would you recommend?


I suppose an exactly designated instrumentation is not at all a bad thing, since it most often parallels the reality of composers writing upon request or when they accept a commission.

And not completely thinking to accommodate each and every one who is composing or trying to compose, that is not a bad way to go.

"Comfort zone" has no personal meaning to me when I write because none of it comes readily or quickly. For some, writing for an odd specification of instruments might be out of their comfort zone, for others, meh.

Who ever does make that choice of instruments _could_ happen upon a combination that is rife with problems inherent to that set of instruments, and that could keep a lot of people from thinking to compete at all.

When Stravinsky tentatively thought to accept the commission which resulted in the Concerto in Eb; Dumbarton Oaks,

~ 3 violins, 3 violas, 2 cellos, 2 double basses; flute, clarinet, bassoon, 2 French horns ~
_[in case anyone is interested, the Wikipedia entry omits the flute  Tsk, tsk.]_

he was at first loathe to accept, due to that odd combination of the winds and in what number and ratio to the strings, and that did not at all please him. He said he eventually got over his resistance by imagining that combination was one he had happily decided upon himself, and then he could begin to write for it.... that instrumentation was initially a puzzle and a hurdel for one of the finest orchestrators within classical music!

Either way, do designate an ensemble size. When it comes to how many of which instrumental family / type, you can either: 
1.) make one specific instrumentation a mandatory requirement.
2.) Designate the number of players from each instrumental family and leave the rest of the choice of which specific instruments from those families up to the composer.

I can predict if two pieces are of relatively equal merit, of the two, the piece which uses superior sound samples or a decent recording of acoustic players will have a huge edge over anything rendered in the thin and rubbery sounding Garritan sound library (via Finale's software) or the MuseScore samples (which are, maybe, the same?)


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## DaDirkNL

For some reason I cannot edit the poll, nor my post. Maybe I'll just start a new thread.


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## musicrom

DaDirkNL said:


> For some reason I cannot edit the poll, nor my post. Maybe I'll just start a new thread.


Yeah maybe start a new thread.


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## musicrom

Are we going to do this? I just want to bump this thread in case everyone forgot about it.


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## DaDirkNL

musicrom said:


> Are we going to do this? I just want to bump this thread in case everyone forgot about it.


Yeah, I am kind of busy right now. You can still do it if you want to.


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## musicrom

Okay, I came up with three random ideas, and I'm wondering if I can start a poll with these options:
- Any sort of quintet including a bassoon
- Uncommon instrumentation: uses none of the instruments found in a classic orchestra, any number of instruments 
- Solo composition (any instrument but piano)

Would this be good? If anyone has other ideas, please chime in.


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## DaDirkNL

Fine by me. Longer than 15 characters.


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## Matsps

> - Solo composition (any instrument but piano)


Does this exclude all other keyboard instruments too?



> - Uncommon instrumentation: uses none of the instruments found in a classic orchestra, any number of instruments


Would this exclude the piano?


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## musicrom

Matsps said:


> Does this exclude all other keyboard instruments too?
> 
> Would this exclude the piano?


That's kind of what I was thinking. My reasoning is that many people have a lot of experience writing for keyboard instruments (especially piano, but I guess it would be similar for other keyboard instruments), and there's a huge difference between what you can write for piano than say, cello.

For the uncommon instrumentation, I think it would exclude piano (I had a link of instruments somewhere, but I lost it). I guess I shouldn't have specifically said instruments found in a classic orchestra, but by that, I more meant it as a guideline to what is considered common or uncommon.

However, if you don't agree with something I said, and you think that piano or other keyboard instruments should be allowed, please go ahead and make an argument in favor of those instruments. Also, if anyone has any ideas for other options, or how to improve the current options, please say so!


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## Matsps

Yeah I thought it should exclude these kind of instruments, but I just thought the rules should be made clear.


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## musicrom

Haha, ok. 

Last call for suggestions before I start a poll!


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