# Aria In F minor - With Score



## Musician

This piece was composed for Harp and Oboe.
Its called Aria In F minor.
Composed this using the Sibelius software.

Cheers,

Saul


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## Yardrax

The melody seems to flow on endlessly without purpose and lacks any of the periodic and motivic elements of melodic content in the classical and romantic periods, there also appears to be strangely few accidentals for a piece in the minor mode attempting to replicate the music of the classical and romantic periods, and little to no modulatory movement (Though I can already barely remember anything about the piece due to it's overbearing indistinctiveness) which probably accounts for why it has a feel not unlike a folk song lament. Very modal, very modern sensibility, and not ultimately to my taste.

How did you phrase it again? Fine if we're composing etudes, but if we're composing real pieces, perhaps you would benefit taking some cues from the dramatic, melodic and contrapuntal structures of the great Classical masters 

Of course if the stated intent was simply to induce a state of drowsiness you have definitely excelled beyond expectations


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## Musician

Oh, there is nothing like hearing an 'objective' opinion about my pieces.

'The melody seems to flow endlessly without purpose' was my favorite line.

The way people perceive music is so different, its truly amazing.

Thanks



Yardrax said:


> The melody seems to flow on endlessly without purpose and lacks any of the periodic and motivic elements of melodic content in the classical and romantic periods, there also appears to be strangely few accidentals for a piece in the minor mode attempting to replicate the music of the classical and romantic periods, and little to no modulatory movement (Though I can already barely remember anything about the piece due to it's overbearing indistinctiveness) which probably accounts for why it has a feel not unlike a folk song lament. Very modal, very modern sensibility, and not ultimately to my taste.
> 
> How did you phrase it again? Fine if we're composing etudes, but if we're composing real pieces, perhaps you would benefit taking some cues from the dramatic, melodic and contrapuntal structures of the great Classical masters
> 
> Of course if the stated intent was simply to induce a state of drowsiness you have definitely excelled beyond expectations


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## PetrB

Yardrax said:


> The melody seems to flow on endlessly without purpose and lacks any of the periodic and motivic elements of melodic content in the classical and romantic periods, there also appears to be strangely few accidentals for a piece in the minor mode attempting to replicate the music of the classical and romantic periods, and little to no modulatory movement (Though I can already barely remember anything about the piece due to it's overbearing indistinctiveness) which probably accounts for why it has a feel not unlike a folk song lament. Very modal, very modern sensibility, and not ultimately to my taste.
> 
> How did you phrase it again? Fine if we're composing etudes, but if we're composing real pieces, perhaps you would benefit taking some cues from the dramatic, melodic and contrapuntal structures of the great Classical masters
> 
> Of course if the stated intent was simply to induce a state of drowsiness you have definitely excelled beyond expectations


Have to agree here. There is a difference from "moving around" and "direction." The tune has no direction, the bass line doesn't seem to be much of anything with a direction either, there is not much direction to what one might call the harmony.

Rhythmically, it is dead in the water, static.

Keep your day job.


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## Musician

This is the same work, just in the Major key, and so far it has perfect ratings and only good comments, with people asking me to sell them the sheet music.

How nice when there is Youtube, its like stopping people in the street and polling them in an objective manner...








PetrB said:


> Have to agree here. There is a difference from "moving around" and "direction." The tune has no direction, the bass line doesn't seem to be much of anything with a direction either, there is not much direction to what one might call the harmony.
> 
> Rhythmically, it is dead in the water, static.
> 
> Keep your day job.


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## oogabooha

i'm not going to comment about the actual music because you seem to have plastered your view on that all over this thread

but you should really learn how to clean up the score a lot more, particularly in the oboe part (don't display it like it's in two voices even if you only have enough notes for one). it looks very clunky and unappealing, and there are some things that aren't physically possible (last measure of the first page--overlapping like that is very confusing to a performer). if you need me to be more in-depth i can


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## Musician

That is a good observation, I actually thought about the same thing, but was told by a number of composers to leave it for a solo oboe and not a for two, they argued that its playable...

Thanks for your comments,



oogabooha said:


> i'm not going to comment about the actual music because you seem to have plastered your view on that all over this thread
> 
> but you should really learn how to clean up the score a lot more, particularly in the oboe part (don't display it like it's in two voices even if you only have enough notes for one). it looks very clunky and unappealing, and there are some things that aren't physically possible (last measure of the first page--overlapping like that is very confusing to a performer). if you need me to be more in-depth i can


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## Ramako

I have a great sympathy for this style, unlike some other posters here. Nevertheless, I must agree with them and suggest you work on the flow of this piece. Some sections I find extremely beautiful, while others, to me, just sound like connectors and disrupt the atmosphere.



Yardrax said:


> The melody seems to flow on endlessly without purpose and lacks any of the periodic and motivic elements of melodic content in the classical and romantic periods, there also appears to be strangely few accidentals for a piece in the minor mode attempting to replicate the music of the classical and romantic periods, and little to no modulatory movement (Though I can already barely remember anything about the piece due to it's overbearing indistinctiveness) which probably accounts for why it has a feel not unlike a folk song lament. Very modal, very modern sensibility, and not ultimately to my taste.


Unless he has commented on this piece elsewhere, he doesn't say here that he is trying to replicate any kind of music, which means that judging it on any but it's own terms is unwarranted.

Nevertheless, Musician, I suggest you learn from your critics rather than dismiss and insult them. Even I find this style tiresome when it goes on without contrast. More textural and dynamic contrast would help this piece enormously I think.


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## pluhagr

No matter how good a piece of music is I like to look at the score and make sure all is written well. A technically sound piece of music is what is very important. A good composer will write nice melodies and they will also know how to write these nice melodies down.
What I find in your score are just a bunch of things which are wrong. First off, what are you doing in bar 9? The oboe cannot play this as you have a quarter note overlapping 16th notes. This needs to be fixed. It just needs to be simplified... Secondly, you have many cases where you have an 8th note tied to a 16th note with a 16th note following. Just make it simple for the performer and write a dotted 8th with a 16th. There are also cases where a grace note instead of a 16th note would suffice and would be nicer to read I'm thinking of bar 7 in this case. Also, please tell me what is going on in bar 12, no one writes rhythms like that. Cut the ties and make everyone's life easier. It also makes you look like you don't understand the basics of rhythm. Again in bar 21 and on there are more than one note at once and that is impossible. You don't need 2 voices there. It looks messy and is entirely unnecessary. I don't know what you were thinking there... Bar 33 in the harp, simplify your ties! Bar 38, the oboe up that high will not sound nice or like you think it will. Know the instrument that you are writing for. Bar 41 and on, I got the feeling that here you just stopped caring about how your score looks. Why are there so many rests all over the place? Clean this up because this looks horrible and no musician would look at this and take it seriously.

Now for my feelings about the piece. I felt that it was pretty. But there are many things that are pretty. It was nice, but it dragged and was repetitive. I don't like your attitude about composition either. You come across as someone who doesn't take criticism about their music well. I purposefully gave you a lot of technical critique because there is nothing to disagree about. Criticism is about being open minded. If you posted your music on here to get a ego boost, then you are sorely mistaken. Ego boosts only serve you and not your music. Critique serves your music.


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## hreichgott

First of all, to the people who do not hear direction in the piece, it's a passacaglia with a couple sets of variations. The bass moves three times in the same way with the exception of the brief sections after each set of variations. Obviously the bass doesn't depart from its ground, nor is there any modulation, as you wouldn't do that in this form. 

The piece is pretty, well-executed, predictable and not that memorable. It's not something I'd go to hear in concert but it is a good early composition. I can understand how it would appeal to people who want pretty background music. A lot of people do, and a lot of them go to YouTube looking for it, so although I do not share PetrB's rancor about that I am not surprised that so far you have received more positive feedback there than here. Different audiences want different things and that's a good thing to be aware of as a composer. 

One criticism, as a person interested in musical structure (whether a set form, or more loosely the way a piece sets about its journey from beginning to end): The short sections that follow the variations - m. 27-31 and similar - are a bit confusing. They introduce some new harmonies and I was expecting them to lead into another section, which would have broken the mold of passacaglia form but would have been interesting... and then they sort of ran out of notes after a few measures and we were back at the top of another set of variations. I think it would be more effective structurally (or storytelling-wise if you prefer) if you either developed those measures into a more full contrasting section, or if you compressed them into something like a 1-measure cadenza that just adds a bit of suspense between sets of variations. Either way consider ending the in-between section in a way that will make the re-entry of the opening material sound like a satisfying answer to it, or else maybe like a bit of a surprise--the traditional way for something in this style would be by ending on the dominant.


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## Musician

All good points, I know how to take pointers and criticism , but Ptreb, comments were out of line, only meant as a 'get back', with zero objectivity. As to your comments about the technical aspects of this piece, I was aware of almost everything you said, and there are different ways to actually write this down, remember that the piece was originally written for piano, and later translated to two instruments, I specifically wanted the oboe part to be solo and not for 2 oboes, so the oboist would need to adjust a little, I think that its playable, I have also heard opinions from other composers telling me that one oboe can play it. There are many rests then usual because the melody at some points overlaps, so again an adjustment has to be made by the oboist when playing it. Or the other possibility is to break the piece into two oboes.

Its nice that you found the piece pretty, I believe this is a positive thing, not every piece of music has to be about the end of the world and the galaxies thundering at each other...



pluhagr said:


> No matter how good a piece of music is I like to look at the score and make sure all is written well. A technically sound piece of music is what is very important. A good composer will write nice melodies and they will also know how to write these nice melodies down.
> What I find in your score are just a bunch of things which are wrong. First off, what are you doing in bar 9? The oboe cannot play this as you have a quarter note overlapping 16th notes. This needs to be fixed. It just needs to be simplified... Secondly, you have many cases where you have an 8th note tied to a 16th note with a 16th note following. Just make it simple for the performer and write a dotted 8th with a 16th. There are also cases where a grace note instead of a 16th note would suffice and would be nicer to read I'm thinking of bar 7 in this case. Also, please tell me what is going on in bar 12, no one writes rhythms like that. Cut the ties and make everyone's life easier. It also makes you look like you don't understand the basics of rhythm. Again in bar 21 and on there are more than one note at once and that is impossible. You don't need 2 voices there. It looks messy and is entirely unnecessary. I don't know what you were thinking there... Bar 33 in the harp, simplify your ties! Bar 38, the oboe up that high will not sound nice or like you think it will. Know the instrument that you are writing for. Bar 41 and on, I got the feeling that here you just stopped caring about how your score looks. Why are there so many rests all over the place? Clean this up because this looks horrible and no musician would look at this and take it seriously.
> 
> Now for my feelings about the piece. I felt that it was pretty. But there are many things that are pretty. It was nice, but it dragged and was repetitive. I don't like your attitude about composition either. You come across as someone who doesn't take criticism about their music well. I purposefully gave you a lot of technical critique because there is nothing to disagree about. Criticism is about being open minded. If you posted your music on here to get a ego boost, then you are sorely mistaken. Ego boosts only serve you and not your music. Critique serves your music.


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## mamascarlatti

Please keep comments directed at the piece and not each other. Some personal remarks have been deleted from this thread.


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## pluhagr

I'm not sure you understand how music is written down. There shouldn't be overlapping lines in the oboe. Period. It is playable, save those horribly high notes (I strongly suggest you look up some orchestration books which will tell you this, the oboe is almost never written for in that register). But I just don't think you have a good grasp on the technical aspect of notating music. I could care less about it being transcribed from piano, if anything this score is evidence of a shoddy arrangement. If you are aware of everything I said then why didn't you change it when you were writing it. Also, there shouldn't have to be an adjustment for the oboist when reading it. Write it down like it should be written and stop making excuses!


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## Musician

pluhagr said:


> the oboe is almost never written for in that register)


So there is a precedent?

good

The piece is playable?

Great

Everything else can be refined, thanks


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## DrKilroy

OK, but bear in mind that such high notes are much more difficult to produce than notes in more comfortable registers. This will result in inferior tone quality, even if played by a professional oboist.

Best regards, Dr


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## Musician

DrKilroy said:


> OK, but bear in mind that such high notes are much more difficult to produce than notes in more comfortable registers. This will result in inferior tone quality, even if played by a professional oboist.
> 
> Best regards, Dr


thanks you too...................


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## kelseythepterodactyl

I know absolutely nothing about composition, but it sounded pretty. The two oboe lines did sound a bit strange (then again, it is a midi recording). As for the tessitura, you could probably just transpose it down - no big deal. You should make an oboist friend who is willing to play it for you. I'm sure they could give you lots of helpful hints as to what will sound best.

Good luck with it!


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## Musician

Thanks Kelsey.......................


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## Mahlerian

Musician said:


> Its nice that you found the piece pretty, I believe this is a positive thing, not every piece of music has to be about the end of the world and the galaxies thundering at each other...


I think you missed the point of the criticism here.

The problem with the piece is not that it's gentle, or pretty, or soft. The problem is that it's all of those things without being _beautiful_ or _meaningful_ in some way that would leave a more lasting impression.

My impression from having heard it a while ago is that there's no real interplay between the parts. The oboe meanders around against a relatively simple accompaniment, overloaded with ornaments that are repeated constantly (repeating ornaments is something you should avoid).

The music is very "blank", both in terms of emotion and in terms of content. Blank music can be used to great effect, but you have to work at letting something come through from underneath the surface. Here, all I noticed is surface.


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## Musician

Sounds a little too philosophical for such a simple piece...


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## pluhagr

You just can't take any criticism. Pity.


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## Musician

pluhagr said:


> You just can't take any criticism. Pity.


Where did I reject any criticism here. I believe that I took all the criticism, unless you mean by 'taking criticism' to burn the score?

I heard everyone's opinions, don't mean I have to accept every single detail, but generally I'm open for all remarks and comments.

Maybe you can't take this criticism...of your criticism ?


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