# Dream Theater



## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Hi! I'm pretty new to this forum. I've lately been exploring classical music, and it's been quite fun. That aside, Dream Theater is probably my favorite band if I had to choose one, and I was wondering if there are any fans on this forum. Dream Theater has long songs and complex music, so it makes sense to me that there might be some overlap between classical music listeners and Dream Theater (and prog in general) listeners. But maybe I'm off base. Anyway, if you're a DT fan, let me know!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I like Dream Theater alright. So far my favorite albums would probably be "Images and Words" "Awake" (which seems to be a little underrated sometimes) and "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence". I also like Metropolis but I think that one was a little overhyped for me before I heard it. I also have a fondness for "Train of Thought" for it's dark sound.

As for classical listeners in general, I've found that most of them are more into older prog bands (King Crimson, Yes, Genesis) or really crazy stuff like Avant-rock bands or Jazz-rock fusion stuff (Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, Univers Zero).


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2014)

I generally find Dream Theater's showy display of self-indulgence to be an annoyance, but I am also fond of various tunes throughout their discography, namely ones from "Images And Words", "Awake", and also "Train Of Thought". Mostly, I just find them to be one of the first of the newer wave of "progressive" bands that could've used a bit more study in the songwriting department, but they were bound to get lucky now and then. 

Not to mention I would also be more capable of appreciating them were it not for their fanbase. But then again, I still love Tool to death, and have a hint of Opeth nostalgia left, so I suppose a fanbase argument would just be hypocritical.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I used to be a big fan. Less of one lately.

I like everything up through '6 Degrees...', but 'Scenes From a Memory' is probably my favorite. They just seem to be repeating themselves.

I am, however, still a big fan of progressive metal. There are plenty of bands in the genre (and sub-genres) that are doing some great stuff. It's still an evolving, creative genre.



violadude said:


> I like Dream Theater alright. So far my favorite albums would probably be "Images and Words" "Awake" (which seems to be a little underrated sometimes) and "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence". I also like Metropolis but I think that one was a little overhyped for me before I heard it. I also have a fondness for "Train of Thought" for it's dark sound.
> 
> As for classical listeners in general, I've found that most of them are more into older prog bands (King Crimson, Yes, Genesis) or really crazy stuff like Avant-rock bands or Jazz-rock fusion stuff (Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, Univers Zero).


I'm one of those that like the 'crazy stuff'!

I started listening to prog with the older bands, but I also love many of the new prog bands and prog-metal bands.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Nice to hear from some who like DT to one degree or another (or six). As far as the criticism of their "self-indulgence" and whatnot, that is, of course, pretty much what everybody says about them (that and that Labrie sucks). I guess all I can say is the extreme technicality is just part of why I love them so much. I can see why their songwriting wouldn't be to somebody's liking, but I disagree that it's necessarily bad. I think they know what their fanbase likes, and I think they have some of the catchiest and most inventive melodies I've ever heard. I love their whole discography, not just "I like them up to..." so I guess I'm a real fanboy, heh! Ah well, what can I say.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Extreme Technicality + No Songwriting Talent + Tacky Aesthetic = *


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2014)

I will also say that, as someone who plays a bit of guitar AND piano, once you get into classical music, you'll realize that these great guitar wizards aren't as legendary as we'd like to think. John Petrucci couldn't hold a candle to a real virtuoso violinist/pianist/etc, simply because the guitar is a pretty simple instrument to play, and his solos, while lightning-fast, are extremely intuitive, tonally and for the left hand and what not.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> *Extreme Technicality + No Songwriting Talent + Tacky Aesthetic = *


Ah, that hurts... I think.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> I will also say that, as someone who plays a bit of guitar AND piano, once you get into classical music, you'll realize that these great guitar wizards aren't as legendary as we'd like to think. John Petrucci couldn't hold a candle to a real virtuoso violinist/pianist/etc, simply because the guitar is a pretty simple instrument to play, and his solos, while lightning-fast, are extremely intuitive, tonally and for the left hand and what not.


Hmm, if you say so. I actually think that, if anything, musicians nowadays are probably better than they have ever been because they are standing on the shoulders of giants. Nobody has to come up with everything from scratch, and everybody is equal as far as if you put the time in, you'll get results. John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess especially have clearly spent a great deal of their life practicing their craft. I don't see why a person 300 years ago spending their whole life practicing would be better than a person in this day spending their whole life practicing. I'm not saying they are better either, really, I'm just saying it is a lot easier in this day and age to get as good as people were back then, and it's not as though JP or JR took any shortcuts. Practice is practice, like it's always been.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2014)

Of course, but if you look at the styles and instruments involved, you'd have to admit that a lot of these shredders get overrated, for more than just soulless songwriting. In high school, I was playing entire metal songs with a moderate amount of practice in a year or two, albeit not quite Petrucci level (I did have a good portion of Glasgow Kiss down though). In classical music, many teachers aren't even taking adult students for violin lessons because it just takes such an immense amount of time to reach a high level.

Edit: I am not intending to bash here - I just find it irritating how much attention your average youtube guitar wizard gets over a trained classical musician who's been working at it for most of his life.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Of course, but if you look at the styles and instruments involved, you'd have to admit that a lot of these shredders get overrated, for more than just soulless songwriting. In high school, I was playing entire metal songs with a moderate amount of practice in a year or two, albeit not quite Petrucci level (I did have a good portion of Glasgow Kiss down though). In classical music, many teachers aren't even taking adult students for violin lessons because it just takes such an immense amount of time to reach a high level.
> 
> Edit: I am not intending to bash here - I just find it irritating how much attention your average youtube guitar wizard gets over a trained classical musician who's been working at it for most of his life.


Fair enough. I actually don't really know how to respond when people say songwriting has no "soul". I don't believe we have souls either, so that doesn't bother me much XD! Personally I find DT's songwriting riveting, intelligent, emotional (sometimes overly so), and downright fun. As far as other shredders, odds are, I like them too. From Yngwie, to Michael Angelo Batio, to Paul Gilbert, to Buckethead, I like the whole crowd of these guys. As I said, people always say they have no soul, or whatever, and I don't really even know what people are talking about because this is music not some kind of magical woo stuff. It's just notes, rhythm, timbre and all that, and these guys do things that I find exciting to listen to. Others don't, and that's just how it is.

Maybe I'm being too defensive, heh! I'm a fanboy, I will readily admit.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Was never able to get into DT. I always looked upon them as the unicorn amongst a rainbow as depicted in Lope's picture above. Petrucci has skill, for sure. I might check them out again to see if anything has changed. I do remember being quite the Symphony X fan, though.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> *Extreme Technicality + No Songwriting Talent + Tacky Aesthetic = *


Ok, PetrB, we know it's you!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Dedalus said:


> Hi! I'm pretty new to this forum. I've lately been exploring classical music, and it's been quite fun. That aside, Dream Theater is probably my favorite band if I had to choose one, and I was wondering if there are any fans on this forum. Dream Theater has long songs and complex music, so it makes sense to me that there might be some overlap between classical music listeners and Dream Theater (and prog in general) listeners. But maybe I'm off base. Anyway, if you're a DT fan, let me know!


If you're really interested good progressive/avant rock, look into Cuneiform Records' catalogue.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

avid fans of Dream Theater. Like them all until Train of Thought, or Octavarium, then their later albums seems just repeating themself. Until Mike Mangini join them then thing got exciting again.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

arcaneholocaust said:


> I will also say that, as someone who plays a bit of guitar AND piano, once you get into classical music, you'll realize that these great guitar wizards aren't as legendary as we'd like to think. John Petrucci couldn't hold a candle to a real virtuoso violinist/pianist/etc, simply because the guitar is a pretty simple instrument to play, and his solos, while lightning-fast, are extremely intuitive, tonally and for the left hand and what not.


No, this isn't true at all. I could agree with Lope above, but technically there's no doubt they are true virtuosos. It's just a different set of techniques (and guitar at those level isn't a simple instrument to play at all).


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

I can't stand Dream Theater. And, generally, absolutely hate the prog metal vibe. But hey, that's just me.


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## Anderjohn (Jul 6, 2014)

I remember at first being unable to get through a DT album. Then I saw them live and had a much better appreciation for them and they really grew on me. "Scenes From a Memory" is an all time classic.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

This does not have too much to do with this thread, but it made me laugh.

John Petrucci and Count Rugen (Chritopher Guest) separated at birth.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I used to like them a lot when I was a teenager. I sort of got out of them around 2007, when I began exploring "avant garde" bands like Mr Bungle, Residents, Naked City, Ruins etc. I doubt I could listen to them today, but I used to think _Awake_ was the most amazing thing ever when I was 16. I think they lost their edge when Kevin Moore left, they became more technically accomplished musicians but their compositions and songwriting suffered massively.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> *Extreme Technicality + No Songwriting Talent + Tacky Aesthetic = *


This is an absolute no matter what the musical genre... we see enough 'pieces' produced, it seems, using theory alone! 

Theory never wrote a thing on its own, ever. Why some would think that just knowing and using theory would do the job without a little bit 'o' invested talent, blood, sweat an' a few tears thrown in is anyone's guess.

As to the OP, I'm only here out of a highly perverse curiosity, to me, prog metal is still metal, a genre (and timbre and amplitude) to which I have been extremely averse since prior ever reaching my teen years.

To get me at all up for listening further than a few seconds at the lowest volume, it would take the unanimous recommendation of a good ten to twenty of my more esteemed classical colleagues -- none in their late teens, none at all prone to wax sentimental about pop or alternative pop music which they may associate with their teens to early twenties -- all saying, "No, seriously, Pete, this group is really something else musically and I think you would find them interesting. Just wear earplugs."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> I used to like them a lot when I was a teenager.


and then you gradually became unteenaged. Very usual pattern, oft repeated story


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> I used to like them a lot when I was a teenager. I sort of got out of them around 2007, when I began exploring "avant garde" bands like Mr Bungle, Residents, Naked City, Ruins etc. I doubt I could listen to them today, but I used to think _Awake_ was the most amazing thing ever when I was 16. I think they lost their edge when Kevin Moore left, they became more technically accomplished musicians but their compositions and songwriting suffered massively.


I can understand where your coming from, and I too, appreciate many of the same avant bands that you do. But I am still able to listen to DT and enjoy them at a different level.

In fact, I've been listening to avant bands for a lot longer that DT and prog metal in general, but when I listen to DT I am listening to get different things out of the music.

Classical, jazz, fusion, prog, prog metal can all occupy my listening experiences and mind at different times, for different reasons.

But I do think that quite a few bands have surpassed DT in terms of emotion, creativity, song writing and uniqueness.


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## captain charles ryder (Jul 20, 2014)

I never understand why Dream Theater is progressive band. It's technical, but not progressive. Sad music. Imo.


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