# Ernst Toch



## Moscow-Mahler

Has anyone heard his music? What do you think of him?


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## Manxfeeder

I have his Cantata of the Bitter Herbs. It's a well-done piece, to my ears, and very accessible, though I wish in the recording the choir didn't use so much vibrato. It reminds me of Mendelssohn's Elijah/Paulus works with some late Romanticism added. I haven't spent much time with the companion piece, Jephta, for no particular reason; I think I just forgot it was there. 

Also, his Geographical Fugue is unique.


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## Moscow-Mahler

Thanks. I've heard only some of his String Quartets and found them wonderful. Have not heard his symphonies yet...


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## jurianbai

I've listen to his string quartet no.10 "Bass" and no.13 only.


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## Delicious Manager

I have now heard a fair bit of Toch's music. I have the *cpo* recording of his symphonies 5-7 and have enjoyed it immensely. I was less enamoured of his _Cantata of the Bitter Herbs_, which I felt was too long for the quality of the musical material. The _Tanzsuite_ (on an excellent Naxos CD) is very slightly reminiscent of early (and contemporaneous) Shostakovitch, while Cello Concerto on the same CD is fascinating. I have yet to delve into the quartets.


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## clavichorder

I heard a work by this composer a while back but I don't remember what it was, but I do remember liking it. Can anyone recommend any pieces for me?


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## violadude

you'll here plenty of his symphonies on my laptop today lol


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## clavichorder

Excellent!


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## Head_case

clavichorder said:


> I heard a work by this composer a while back but I don't remember what it was, but I do remember liking it. Can anyone recommend any pieces for me?


I have a lot of his string quartets: Toch wrote a huge cycle (over 15 string quartets). I haven't got the complete set - most of the ones I have are done by the Verdi and the Buchburger Quartets.

I'm not sure I can recommen them: they are modern 20th century idiom. His language doesn't seem all that unique to me, and his material is not easy to remember. The composer he most reminds me of, is Mysclslaw (sp?) Weinberg (or Vainberg) in this genre.

If you do try the string quartets, no.s VIII & IX are perhaps easier.


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## Nix

violadude said:


> you'll here plenty of his symphonies on my laptop today lol


Woah... are you the other cat in his avatar?


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## clavichorder

Nix said:


> Woah... are you the other cat in his avatar?


Fascinating theory. Maybe he is?


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## Moscow-Mahler

I have bought a cd with Leon Botstein conducting NDR Orchetra (Nord-Deutsche Rundfunk) - "Toch - Piano Concertos", but I should listen to it more, at first sight they are fast, vital, funny and that is all. 

I have not heard any Mieczysław Weinberg's quartets yet.


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## clavichorder

I'm on the look out for his string quartets.


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## elgar's ghost

Have got - and like - the Cantata of the Bitter Herbs on Naxos (along with Jephta - aka symphony no. 5). Heard good things about the quartets - a pity CPO can't box them up like they did with his symphonies and bring the price down a bit. I've got my eye on the Naxos disc of his Cello Concerto - one of those I keep meaning to get but end up choosing something else.


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## clavichorder

Ernst Toch is a rarity, a composer of modern near atonal techniques that is actually very easy on the ears, and sounds like it is very tightly constructed. I'm listening to the 3rd symphony.


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## Head_case

clavichorder said:


> I'm on the look out for his string quartets.


Any luck?

I'm still after the string quartet no. XV.

I'm warming up to him now. Which is more than I can say for Weinberg


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## starthrower

The string quartets on CPO are out of print. WTF?


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## Portamento

Toch's symphonies and string quartets are masterpieces, particularily Symphony No. 3 and quartets Nos. 9 and 11. If you are new to his music, these CDs are absolutely essential:


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## tortkis

Portamento said:


> Toch's symphonies and string quartets are masterpieces, particularily Symphony No. 3 and quartets Nos. 9 and 11. If you are new to his music, these CDs are absolutely essential:
> 
> View attachment 93258


I just finished listening to the striking string quartet no. 11. Thanks for your recommendation. Buchberger Quartet's playing is very clear and intense. (I love their recordings of Haydn string quartets.)


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## Pugg

starthrower said:


> The string quartets on CPO are out of print. WTF?


It's been a while , but if you use the barcode on BookButler you can find the string quartets.


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## Animal the Drummer

Wow. Sting performing Ernst Toch. Bet that's quite an eye-opener.


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## Portamento

The Toch string quartets on CPO have finally been released as a box set! I just found out about this.


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

I had been hoping for this. Thanks for the post.


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## starthrower

It's about time I revisited his symphonies. That string quartet box was due to come out so it's nice to see it. But I've got loads of string quartet CDs I hardly ever listen to so I'm not rushing to order that one.


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## elgar's ghost

Conversely, now that the box set is out I wonder whether marketplace sellers will slash the prices of the individual discs? :devil:


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## HenryPenfold

elgars ghost said:


> Conversely, now that the box set is out I wonder whether marketplace sellers will slash the prices of the individual discs? :devil:


I hope so. I bought 2 of the 4 CDs as they came out, so buying the box would be bad value, and picking up the other 2 as bargains would be pleasant!


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## elgar's ghost

Happy hunting, Henry.


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## CnC Bartok

An interesting composer, and I am very impressed by his Symphonies, which are fine works, especially No.3 and No.5. The former was quite popular in its day, and I even have a recording of it by William Steinberg, although I prefer Alun Francis on CPO, who sounds more structured to me...

Very tempted by those CPO Quartets. I am assuming that the first five quartets, not included in these recordings, are the "Mozartean pastiches" described on Wikipedia as such? Just wonder why he didn't start numbering again from scratch if they're not up to scratch?!


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## starthrower

The only listing I see is at Presto so I assume the box hasn't been released in the states? CPO doesn't have a website as far as I know. I could never find anything in my searches.


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## CnC Bartok

^^^ Starth - every time I have looked for CPO's website, I am directed to jpc.de. You might have luck there? My dealings with them have been happy.

I've bought the Toch Quartets now, best value I could find was at UK Bezos-R-us.


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## elgar's ghost

CnC Bartok said:


> An interesting composer, and I am very impressed by his Symphonies, which are fine works, especially No.3 and No.5. The former was quite popular in its day, and I even have a recording of it by William Steinberg, although I prefer Alun Francis on CPO, who sounds more structured to me...
> 
> Very tempted by those CPO Quartets. I am assuming that the first five quartets, not included in these recordings, are the "Mozartean pastiches" described on Wikipedia as such? Just wonder why he didn't start numbering again from scratch if they're not up to scratch?!


Going by the cover to the published score below it's possible that Toch himself didn't allocate a particular number to the mature quartets anyway, at least earlier in his career:



Also, a number of quartets were allegedly lost during the holocaust, which at least explains why there is a long gap between the '11th' and '12th'.


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## CnC Bartok

My String Quartets box has arrived, miraculously quickly, less than 24 hours!

Looking forward to listening to them....


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## starthrower

I'll wait until a US release. In the meantime, maybe CnC can give us his impressions of the various quartets after some listening.


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## CnC Bartok

Will do, but after the weekend! Dozens of online exams to mark over the next few days, having been put in the enviable position of having to decide my students' exam grades.......fun, eh?


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## Portamento

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ Starth - every time I have looked for CPO's website, I am directed to jpc.de. You might have luck there? My dealings with them have been happy.


*cpo* is actually the house label for jpc.

Toch's first five quartets, heavily influenced by Brahms, are lost. Perhaps none of them are major masterpieces, but Nos. 8-12 are all incredibly solid works that deserve repeated listening.

Here's a short list I put together as a "listening guide" to Toch's music. Especially notable works are asterisked.

- String Quartet No. 6 in A minor, Op. 12 (1905)
- String Quartet No. 8 in D-flat major, Op. 18 (1911) ★★
- String Quartet No. 9 in C major, Op. 26 (1919) ★★
- String Quartet No. 10, Op. 28 "auf den Namen 'Bass'" (1920) ★★
- Die chinesische Flöte [The Chinese Flute], Op. 29 [chamber symphony for soprano & 14 soloists] (1922)
- Tanzsuite [Dance Suite], Op. 30 [5 soloists & percussion] (1923)
- Burlesken [Burlesques], Op. 31 [piano] (1923) ★★
- String Quartet No. 11, Op. 34 (1924) ★★
- Concerto for Cello and Chamber Orchestra, Op. 35 (1924) ★★
- Piano Concerto No. 1, Op. 38 (1926)
- Die Prinzessin auf der Ebse [The Princess and the Pea], Op. 43 [opera in 1 act with prologue] (1927)
- Cello Sonata, Op. 50 (1929)
- Gesprochene Musik [Spoken Music; mixed speaking chorus] (1930) ★★★
- Big Ben: Variationen über das Westminster-Geläut [Variation-Fantasy on the Westminster Chimes], Op. 62 [orch.] (1935)
- Piano Quintet, Op. 64 (1938) ★★
- Cantata of the Bitter Herbs, Op. 65 [narrator, mixed voices, & orch.] (1938) ★★
- String Quartet No. 12, Op. 70 (1946) ★★
- Symphony No. 1, Op. 72 (1949-50)
- Symphony No. 2, Op. 73 (1953) ★★
- String Quartet No. 13, Op. 74 (1953)
- Symphony No. 3, Op. 75 (1954-55) ★★★
- Peter Pan: Fairy Tale for Orchestra in Three Parts, Op. 76 (1956)
- Jephta: Rhapsodic Poem (Symphony No. 5), Op. 89 (1961-62) ★★
- Symphony No. 6, Op. 93 (1963)
- Symphony No. 7, Op. 95 (1964)


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## starthrower

CnC Bartok said:


> Will do, but after the weekend! Dozens of online exams to mark over the next few days, having been put in the enviable position of having to decide my students' exam grades.......fun, eh?


Have you had a chance to do some listening?


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## CnC Bartok

Hi, Starth. I have, and I suspect I need to do so again. I found the Toch Quartets a bit on the bland side at first listening, inhabiting a world somewhere in between Bartok, Hindemith, Schoenberg and yet without their character and individuality. The earlier works are easier, of course, but nothing special.

At First Listening, I hasten to add. I found his Symphonies more impressive on first go, not easy, but obviously of real substance. These have so far sounded a bit anonymous.

I am sure this is my bad, and maybe my mind isn't as receptive to new pieces at present. But there have been several sets of Quartets I have managed to get into relatively easily - Hindemith, Holmboe, Bacewicz as recent examples. These haven't grabbed me. Maybe hence my silence?


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## starthrower

I was going back and forth from Toch to Martinu quartets and preferring Martinu. I'm sorry I let the Brilliant Classics set get away. The Stamitz Quartet play these with a lot of gusto. The other ensembles on Supraphon, and Naxos sound a tad too polite.


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