# The Who vs The Kinks



## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

*The Who*

Arguably the band with the biggest influence on what would become punk music, but also one of the bands most influential on what would become progressive rock thanks to Townsend's conceptual ambitions. In my estimation, they were an extremely uneven band that could easily flip-flop between greatness, mediocrity, and downright awfulness. I'll never understand the appeal of Tommy, which, despite being quite original as a concept album, has lackluster music combined with a concept that's actually downright absurd. On the other hand, Quadrophenia may just be the band's masterpiece. I'd even say it did the whole "juvenile angst" much better than Pink Floyd's much more popular The Wall. Their first two albums have some great energy, but are quite inconsistent; but they create another masterpiece with The Who Sell Out, which is also one of the finest psychedelic/power pop albums ever made. While Who's Next is also in the running for one of the 70s greatest hard rock albums, most everything they did after is utterly forgettable.

*The Kinks*

In a way, The Kinks were a mash-up of every style and genre of 60s rock. They did a bit of everything, and typically did it as well as any of their contemporaries. They could craft hooky pop that rivaled The Beatles, energetic riff-rock that rivaled The Who, they could be as bluesy as The Stones; but they also developed their own distinct voice that was often marked by a unique tonality that could be wistful and elegiac one moment, and wry and satiric the next. They were often considered "too British" for US audiences, but the truth is that their ban from American touring (thanks to the American Federation of Musicians not giving the permits) at the height of the British invasion probably did more to prevent their popularity from spreading to the States much more than their actual music. In truth, the albums they released from Kontroversy (in '65) to Muswell Hillbillies (in '72) are universally excellent, with Something Else, Village Green, and Arthur being masterpieces that rivals the best of their contemporaries. Though they also took up Who-like conceptual ambitions in the 70s and faltered, they returned to form in the late 70s and had another great (if unheralded) run of albums from Sleepwalker (in '77) to Word of Mouth (in '84).

*Conclusion*

While I admire both bands, The Kinks are an easy win for me. They're in my top 5 while The Who only makes my top 40. A big reason for that is that I feel The Kinks were far more consistent, and while I think the three best from each (Sell Out, Who's Next, Quadrophenia VS Something Else, Village Green, Arthur) are pretty close in quality, The Who has nothing else that rivals the other great Kinks albums--Kontroversy, Face to Face, and Lola; and this isn't even getting into The Kinks's "comeback" albums. I'm sure The Who will win this poll due to their popularity, but The Kinks really deserve more praise and attention than they receive.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Both bands have songs I like, but neither is top100 material for me.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Two of my all-time favourites, but I have no interest in the Who post-_Who Are You?_ or little interest in the Kinks post-_Low Budget_. _Low Budget_ was for me the last above-average Kinks album. Both groups butter my parsnips equally nicely and as both had a great run of albums from 1965 through to 1973 (The Kinks' inessential _Percy_ soundtrack from 1971 notwithstanding) I can't choose between them.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Neither band is among my favorites, but The Who would be in my 2nd tier; the Kinks much lower.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> Neither band is among my favorites, but The Who would be in my 2nd tier; the Kinks much lower.


Mostly agree, but would place The Who even into tier 3 or 4. Lotta music out there as competition.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Mostly agree, but would place The Who even into tier 3 or 4. Lotta music out there as competition.


I wouldn't really know, having kicked the pop/rock genre about 30 years ago.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The two bands are very different to my ears and eyes. It's a given that American audiences naturally went for the The Who with their extroverted style and testosterone fueled blonde lead singer. I don't listen to much mainstream classic rock but at this point I'd rather put on a Kinks record. In fact I bought almost all of their records from '66-'72, plus a singles collection last year.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I don't listen to much mainstream classic rock but at this point I'd rather put on a Kinks record. In fact I bought almost all of their records from '66-'72, plus a singles collection last year.


That makes up for the fact that I never bought any Kinks album. Their hit songs just didn't do much for me.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The only one I don't really care for is Come Dancing. But I'm an album listener. The hit radio mentality of playing the same songs over and over has always struck me as idiotic.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

starthrower said:


> *The two bands are very different to my ears and eyes.* It's a given that American audiences naturally went for the The Who with their extroverted style and testosterone fueled blonde lead singer. I don't listen to much mainstream classic rock but at this point I'd rather put on a Kinks record. In fact I bought almost all of their records from '66-'72, plus a singles collection last year.


In some respects yes, but the fact that both started as relatively straight forward rock/pop acts with songs that were massively influential to the next generation but then evolved into ambitious, conceptual album-oriented bands is a notable similarity.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> That makes up for the fact that I never bought any Kinks album. Their hit songs just didn't do much for me.


Having not grown up in the 60s/70s I'm not sure what "hits" The Kinks had beyond You Really Got Me and All Day and All of the Night, but I know my favorite songs from them were songs I'd never heard before listening to their albums. At the very least I'd recommend hearing Village Green, Something Else, or Arthur.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

That's one of the reasons I bought a bunch of Kinks albums. They were never on my radar screen growing up so I wanted to buy them and listen. I don't really need to listen to Who or Zeppelin albums anymore. The only English rock stuff I listen to is the Kinks, and the Canterbury bands. I didn't hear them much as a kid. Kevin Ayers is one of my favorites. I just love his records!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> In some respects yes, but the fact that both started as relatively straight forward rock/pop acts with songs that were massively influential to the next generation but then evolved into ambitious, conceptual album-oriented bands is a notable similarity.


Alas! As may have become clear in some of my previous posts, I am too limited in imagination to recognize the inherent concepts of the vast majority of "concept" albums. If most such albums were played to/for me without title but with a gun to my head and orders to identify and articulate the concept therein, I would be dead many times over. So the attempt of a group to persuade me of the reality of an album's concept is seed scattered upon barren ground. _Tommy_ would be an obvious exception.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Having not grown up in the 60s/70s I'm not sure what "hits" The Kinks had beyond You Really Got Me and All Day and All of the Night,


Their biggest hit might have been "Lola".


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> In some respects yes, but the fact that both started as relatively straight forward rock/pop acts with songs that were massively influential to the next generation but then evolved into ambitious, conceptual album-oriented bands is a notable similarity.


They both started early enough when emphasis was more on singles than albums. I guess Sgt Pepper changed all that.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Alas! As may have become clear in some of my previous posts, I am too limited in imagination to recognize the inherent concepts of the vast majority of "concept" albums. If most such albums were played to/for me without title but with a gun to my head and orders to identify and articulate the concept therein, I would be dead many times over. So the attempt of a group to persuade me of the reality of an album's concept is seed scattered upon barren ground. _Tommy_ would be an obvious exception.


I think it would be difficult to miss the concept of The Kinks' Preservation albums, not that I'd recommend bothering with them to start with. The title track (which, bizarrely, was cut from the album but released as a single) even starts with "once upon a time" and proceeds to tell an overview of the albums' story, characters and themes. There's also a fine analysis of those elements here: https://altrockchick.com/2013/06/05/classic-music-review-preservation-by-the-kinks-acts-1-and-2/ Those albums are arguably closer to musical theater than rock/pop.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

The Kinks sounds like a Beatles clone, and since I am not the biggest Beatles fan, I am not a fan of its clones either. So I prefer The Who.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Always something a bit precious about the Kinks, and nothing with the musicality of Tommy or Who’s Next, which has some of the most lyrical writing of any band of the period.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Jacck said:


> The Kinks sounds like a Beatles clone...


 I think you've got them confused with ELO or Badfinger.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Bwv 1080 said:


> *Always something a bit precious about the Kinks*, and nothing with the musicality of Tommy or Who's Next, which has some of the most lyrical writing of any band of the period.


I've heard this before and I'm never quite sure what it means. Perhaps in their more wistful, nostalgic music I can hear it (but no more so than The Beatles at their most whimsical), but The Kinks were just as prone to being hard-edged, satirical, even pessimistic (perhaps that's the flip-side of the coin to lamenting some lost, idealized past). Perhaps they didn't do this with the musical fury of The Who at their most rowdy, but who at that time did?


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2019)

I'm declining to vote - I have two albums by The Who (Who's Next and Tommy) and nothing by the Kinks. I know their most popular songs that may still get radio play, and that is about it.

The Who just hasn't connected for me. I like some of their stuff, don't really hate anything - they don't elicit strong reactions either way. Lately I have delved deeply into 60s and 70s rock - these two bands have yet to generate any real interest from me, the way that CCR, the Beatles, the Stones, VU, and the Beach Boys have.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> Their biggest hit might have been "Lola".


And "Waterloo Station" is as beautiful as any pop song I know.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Bulldog said:


> Their biggest hit might have been "Lola".


that has been posted on the thread "song of the day" TYVM


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

The Kinks music by far. But i feel they are let down by their musicianship which is far lower than the Who's.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The Who for me, not even close. 
Who's Next, Tommy, Quadrophenia. By the Numbers
Who Are You
Classic albums and songs


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

The Who by a country mile.


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## Hiawatha (Mar 13, 2013)

The Kinks for me although I have seen both live and each have their merits. In fact, both are very strong. But I never liked the speculation around Townshend or him especially as a character. RD is not exactly easy either but he is more in line with the English eccentric. And "You Really Got Me" is an early punk record many years ahead of punk actual. Favourite songs by each - probably Lola, Waterloo Sunset and Days and then I Can See For Miles, Baba O'Riley and You Better You Bet but there are a lot, lot, more.

Incidentally, while I do get the either/or, is there just a hint in this poll of how "sensitive" or "hard" are you? It's quite interesting to see how many folk have gone hugely in one direction or the other. I have come down on the side of sensitive/creative but not by light years, as is my way. My mates were huge Who fans. There was commonality - and a fair part of me also comes from that early "laddish" angle.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2019)

If I admit my favorite Kinks song is "Come Dancing" I'll probably be run off the site.


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## Hiawatha (Mar 13, 2013)

Baron Scarpia said:


> If I admit my favorite Kinks song is "Come Dancing" I'll probably be run off the site.


This is funny in a nice way.

I love Come Dancing. I love dancing songs because they remind me of my parents when my mother was most happy. Not so sure about my Dad. He was forced into it. Come Dancing came late. '78? I bought it. The ultimate "my parents being happy dancing" song is Nanci Griffith's "Love at the Five and Dime" not that they would have got that I saw them in it. For a long time in my head they were also the couple in "When The Wind Blows" but now I feel that I am and many of us are. If this isn't nuclear winter, what is?

I hardly dare mention "musicals" in this context. Generally I avoided them for having in their day, erm, connotations but I had a singular mate - unusual in his rigid normality : a "Foggy" from "Last of the Summer Wine" for our UK viewers but at only 23. Extremely right wing when I wasn't and similarly one rung above the South London poverty class. Straight as a die. I use that word without any sexual reference for I only always did great friendships. Michael Foot and Enoch also had an unholy alliance.

He was for amateur football, obsessively, the person who told me not to worry about getting my head kicked in when we went to Millwall, and quirkily for musicals. If we met up for a few beers I almost felt obliged to say yes. But the other part of the bargain was that mainly I chose which or else I would winge. So we got to "Tommy" and actually I really liked it. The stage version. But it wasn't the music. It was the fact that they had screens which artistically threw the lyrics across them. I watched those words all night. It was a great precursor to watching words on a screen every night in the absence of anything else.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2019)

^^^ I also like "Better Days," from the prior album. 

I heard the Kinks live once, in New York, after "State of Confusion came out. I probably have permanent hearing loss from that concert. Cindy Lauper opened. She was almost booed off the stage.

My book almost appeared in a Cindy Lauper video. I was walking down fifth avenue and strange music was playing and they were filming people dancing on the steps of the Metropolitan museum. Some production assistant saw me and asked to borrow the book I was carrying, they had the idea of the singer and her crew dancing past someone reading a book, who would join in. The song was "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun," of course. It was her first record and no one had heard of her then. The scene didn't take it into the video.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

*The Kinks*. I've only recently gotten ahold of their stuff and find it much more exciting than anything by The Who.


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## Hiawatha (Mar 13, 2013)

Baron Scarpia said:


> ^^^ I also like "Better Days," from the prior album.
> 
> I heard the Kinks live once, in New York, after "State of Confusion came out. I probably have permanent hearing loss from that concert. Cindy Lauper opened. She was almost booed off the stage.
> 
> My book almost appeared in a Cindy Lauper video. I was walking down fifth avenue and strange music was playing and they were filming people dancing on the steps of the Metropolitan museum. Some production assistant saw me and asked to borrow the book I was carrying, they had the idea of the singer and her crew dancing past someone reading a book, who would join in. The song was "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun," of course. It was her first record and no one had heard of her then. The scene didn't take it into the video.


Nice one.

I have three television appearances in my cv.

The first which was not dissimilar from yours although it lacks a star was when we as mates walked across the Ouse Bridge in York on a Saturday among many others and I suddenly found a hand in my chest. The guy, a cameraman, asked us to walk back to the start of the bridge and cross it again so that he could film us. I have no idea why we were chosen or what was the purpose but we did it anyhow.

Earlier, I was as a child on TV in Ohio when a veteran car pulled into our local petrol garage where my father and I were standing, followed by a limousine and a trailer truck with TV cameras. I was told to get in the old car which I did and they took me to Gatwick, assuring me I would be on TV in the next week.

And the third was as a professional. An exhibition on ideas for expanding Heathrow. This is one of the UK favourites. We do it every decade. In the meantime, China builds 96 new runways while declaring it is against global warming. A very long day, that, explaining the merits of a new runway to an angry public although they were fairly reasonable with me once they knew I was the environmentalist who would reduce its impacts. But at one point, a woman in a wheelchair was placed by me under the full glare of BBC TV to remonstrate and my minders let it go for a minute or two and then pushed me away from contention. Roll it on a few hours. We are all sitting in a bar trying to wind down and the news is on there.

And oh my god, I'm there with the woman in the wheelchair across national television. Managers furious. Colleagues delighted. Laughing, a full round of applause. We went out to celebrate and on the way back across the fields I fell into a 30 foot hole. My popularity as a clown increased but promotion never came.

Sorry - now to stride across my local hills as if I'm all conquering : yep, bathroom : I am going for a p--s:





 

(Btw, this is an amazing video with loads of artistic references to Britain's current dilemma, uncontrived - I'd not seen it before - and I'm Arsenal 1st, Millwall and York 2nd while also having a very soft spot for Newcastle, Ipswich, Exeter and Villa so most regions covered (!) - so to see Frank Mc etc is special too)


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

starthrower said:


> The only one I don't really care for is Come Dancing. But I'm an album listener. The hit radio mentality of playing the same songs over and over has always struck me as idiotic.


You would not want to be a regular passenger in my car, because I tend to play the same few classical cd's for months at a time. Paint me a happy idiot. :clap:


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

This is a good BOTB as the two bands have a lot of "parallel" qualities. Neither went raiding American blues or jazz for ideas and they've both made some of the best rock songs ever... to compare Lola with Behind Blue Eyes, or Tommy with Preservation, is a luxury that few bands can offer... 

I know a number of Brits in my local music scene who claim The Who as their favorite band but I would choose The Kinks mainly because of Ray Davies' personality and range of lyrical material from theater to proto-punk.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Hiawatha said:


> Incidentally, while I do get the either/or, is there just a hint in this poll of how "sensitive" or "hard" are you? It's quite interesting to see how many folk have gone hugely in one direction or the other. I have come down on the side of sensitive/creative but not by light years, as is my way. My mates were huge Who fans. There was commonality - and a fair part of me also comes from that early "laddish" angle.


It wasn't (at least consciously) intended by me. I actually think both bands had their share of "sensitive" and "hard" songs. For me, the issue comes down more to the consistency of each's discography more than anything else, as I feel both had a near-equal share of highlights. Perhaps I could also admit that I've come to appreciate pop craftsmanship much more in recent years, which has meant that some bands for whom a large amount of their appeal was based on energy, aggression, attitude, etc. have fallen some in my estimation; which is to say there would've been a time 5-10 years ago when The Who would've easily won this poll for me, while I wouldn't have given The Kinks the time of day. Now I tend to find the melodicism, pop song craft, and more diverse range of tones of The Kinks a bit more appealing.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

I can't vote in this poll. I have loved both bands and have a great respect for their creative outputs. To vote for one implies that the other is somehow lesser! I can't see it that way.

_Quadrophenia_ is rock's greatest opera. After _Tommy_, Townsend spent time studying the unifying techniques of great opera composers and then showed off: four themes, each representing a different member of The Who, each one representing a different aspect of the protagonist - who has split into four personalities.......because he's a bleeding quadrophenic! Even if you can't relate to the story, it's really brilliant work.

And speaking of brilliant work...._The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society_ is a flawed work of genius. Flawed only in its timing - it didn't resound with events in America in 1968 - who could have predicted 1968? But in its own wright, it's a masterpiece that paints with the subtle hues of a Daumier. It's a well aged burgundy, not for everyone, but for those that can enjoy it......quite nice!

I look up in the night sky and I cannot say whether I prefer the blue white color of Castor or the yellow orange giant Pollux! Think I'll open a bottle of rosé and enjoy them both!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

starthrower said:


> The two bands are very different to my ears and eyes. It's a given that American audiences naturally went for the The Who with their extroverted style and testosterone fueled blonde lead singer. I don't listen to much mainstream classic rock but at this point I'd rather put on a Kinks record. In fact I bought almost all of their records from '66-'72, plus a singles collection last year.


This may have been pointed out by others....

The Kink's were as successful as the Who in the states, but at the height of their powers they couldn't get the right paperwork to tour in the US of A. Ray Davis has said it killed their career there. Plus their music became more 'English'. Meanwhile the Who did Woodstock etc.

from Wiki

Following a mid-year tour of the United States, the American Federation of Musicians refused permits for the group to appear in concerts there for the next four years, effectively cutting off the Kinks from the main market for rock music at the height of the British Invasion.[1][43] Although neither the Kinks nor the union gave a specific reason for the ban, at the time it was widely attributed to their rowdy on-stage behaviour.[43] It has been reported that an incident when the band were taping Dick Clark's TV show Where The Action Is in 1965 led to the ban. Ray Davies recalls in his autobiography, "Some guy who said he worked for the TV company walked up and accused us of being late. Then he started making anti-British comments. Things like "Just because the Beatles did it, every mop-topped, spotty-faced limey juvenile thinks he can come over here and make a career for himself." following which a punch was thrown and the AFM banned them.[44]


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

^ I briefly alluded to that history in my OP. I've wondered if history would remember The Kinks differently if they had gotten the permits to tour the US at the height of their powers and of the British Invasion's popularity.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

What also didn't help the Kinks was being lumbered with a record company (Pye) who virtually gave up on promoting new Kinks albums from 1966 as they were more concerned in putting their weight behind compilation albums of previously-released material.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

You will never hear this song the same way again.......


The sun shines
People forget
The heat will rise as the chocolate dies
People forget

The new sweets
People forget
The sweat they can't stand as they melt in your hand
People forget

Forget their hiding 
Behind an 
M&M front, 
It's an M&M front (plain or peanut?)


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

The Kinks recorded 'Better things' in the mid/late 70's and remains both lyrically and musically embedded in my mind....what a lovely song!


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

In case some of you missed this from a few months ago. So predictable, Pete even breaks his instrument at the end:






:guitar:


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised this poll has turned out so split. My perception has always been that The Who has long been considered one of the premiere classic rock bands, up there with Zeppelin and Sabbath, while The Kinks are the forgotten black sheep of the British Invasion.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

jim prideaux said:


> The Kinks recorded 'Better things' in the mid/late 70's and remains both lyrically and musically embedded in my mind....what a lovely song!


I also thought that it was around '79 or so and was surprised to discover that it was actually released in 1981. Agree with you wholeheartedly about the genuinely good-natured and kind-hearted sentiment of the tune -

_"Here is wishing you the bluest skies
Hoping something better comes tomorrow
Hoping all the verses rhyme
The very best of choruses too

Follow all the doubt and sadness
I know that better things are on their way

Here is hoping all the days ahead
Won't be as bitter as the ones behind you
Be an optimist instead
And somehow happiness will find you"_









*"Better Things" -*






Although the 1983 release of "State of Confusion" is best known for the hit single "Come Dancing" (inspired by Davies' memories of his older sister, Rene, who died of a heart attack while dancing at a dance hall) charting at # 6 on the Billboard Hot 100 list the stand-out tune for me was "State of Confusion" -









*"State of Confusion" -*






And one last somewhat long lost tune from 1984's "Word of Mouth"

"Summer's Gone" which for me captures that ephemeral sense of "wistfulness" for times long past that no one was able to craft and capture better than Ray Davies -

*"Summer's Gone" -*






_"Looking in a window on a rainy day. 
Thinking about good things that I just threw away. 
Looking in the gutter, watching the trash go flowing by. 
Thinking it's Summer, but there are only clouds in the sky.

When I think about what we wasted, makes me sad, 
We never appreciated what we had. 
Now I'm standing in a doorway with my overcoat on, 
It really feels like Summer's gone. 
So alone. 
Summer's gone." _


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