# Kony 2012



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Watch the video, I wanna spread awareness about this.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kony2012/kony-4.html


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Dude and others, you need to be wary of this. I didn't bookmark the link and am about to go to bed so will have a search tomorrow (look for yourselves as well though!), but there has been a lot of discussion on the interwebs today from very reputable sources calling into question the validity of the claims made in the video, and also the shadiness of the Invisible Children group. Kony is a despicable human being, but this video is potential exploitation.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Dude and others, you need to be wary of this. I didn't bookmark the link and am about to go to bed so will have a search tomorrow (look for yourselves as well though!), but there has been a lot of discussion on the interwebs today from very reputable sources calling into question the validity of the claims made in the video, and also the shadiness of the Invisible Children group. Kony is a despicable human being, but this video is potential exploitation.


I would feel very disappointed and foolish if that is the case. I got pretty emotional watching the video.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Since at least 1997? http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/05/w...e-a-war-of-terror-in-uganda.html?pagewanted=1 Amazing how it takes a viral video to raise awareness. Hail the power of social media. Click the like button and sleep well tonight.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

OK, just before I rush off, here is your primary resource for understanding what's going on: Grant Oyson at visiblechildren.

The website is likely to be flooded with traffic, so here a few choice selections:



> I do not doubt for a second that those involved in KONY 2012 have great intentions, nor do I doubt for a second that Joseph Kony is a very evil man. But despite this, I'm strongly opposed to the KONY 2012 campaign.
> 
> KONY 2012 is the product of a group called Invisible Children, a controversial activist group and not-for-profit. They've released 11 films, most with an accompanying bracelet colour (KONY 2012 is fittingly red), all of which focus on Joseph Kony. When we buy merch from them, when we link to their video, when we put up posters linking to their website, we support the organization. I don't think that's a good thing, and I'm not alone.
> 
> ...


The moral of the story: always go in search of your own facts, or at least find an opposing viewpoint to aid your judgement, and be cautious whenever your heart-strings are pulled heavily.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> OK, just before I rush off, here is your primary resource for understanding what's going on: Grant Oyson at visiblechildren.
> 
> The website is likely to be flooded with traffic, so here a few choice selections:
> 
> The moral of the story: always go in search of your own facts, or at least find an opposing viewpoint to aid your judgement, and be cautious whenever your heart-strings are pulled heavily.


.... That really puts me in a bad mood actually.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

This video must be something. It spread so fast.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

This is a pro-Ugandan military charity, so it only tells one side of the story. I think presenting a deeply complex issue (of which this guy is only a symptom) as black and white has a lot of potential for harm. I don't see the point in throwing money at one of the major forces that has been keeping that region wartorn for decades. Furthermore I'm suspicious of the somewhat colonialist narrative that whites (scuse me, Westerners) need to "save" Africa from itself.

Edit: pole beat me to it


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I dont see why more awareness is necessary for this issue.

Governments seem to fully understand the threat that is Kony and have tried to take actions against him many times over the years.
The ICC already released an indictment in 2005 carrying some pretty heavy charges. In 2001 the US classified him as a 'Speciall designated terrorist', which involves heavy sanctions.
A Bill specifically aimed at stopping him was passed unanimously in the US in 2010, and multiple times, US troops have been deployed to assist in the hunt.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

violadude said:


> I would feel very disappointed and foolish if that is the case. I got pretty emotional watching the video.





http://imgur.com/f5kWl


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Philip said:


> http://imgur.com/f5kWl


Nice one, I wonder how many people got it right?

Im proud to say I know nearly every african country on the map, im a bit of an africa nerd.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> ...I would feel very disappointed and foolish if that is the case. I got pretty emotional watching the video.


I hate these 'newer-age' manipulative play-on-your emotions pleas. 
They are insulting to the intelligence, as if the basic facts were not enough to have you understand.

About every 'cause' I can think of now has a PR strategy using this approach. 
Turns me off, rather than convinces me to 'sign up.' 
I wonder if those making those kinds of 'appeals' are at all aware of the 'repel' factor of the style of presentation - not the subject, but the presentation as repellent....


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

PetrB said:


> I hate these 'newer-age' manipulative play-on-your emotions pleas.
> They are insulting to the intelligence, as if the basic facts were not enough to have you understand.
> 
> About every 'cause' I can think of now has a PR strategy using this approach.
> ...


Unfortunately, although these videos repel some, and at least thankfully cause others to be cautious, as evidenced by the millions of views and the quick spread of the video, this style of presentation is _extremely_ effective. My main concern here is that even if this was an intrinsically virtuous cause, the _exact same_ tactics could be used to feed gullible people propaganda. Hardly any of those who devoured this video questioned the facts or even bothered to look into them a little deeper. The production value (as well as the emotional story) had them hooked from the outset. The lack of skepticism is worrying.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't like this kind of thing. That's not to say it is not done with the best intentions and it will undoubtedly raise awareness. However I just find them so! Ah I don't even know. Like all those *Hollywood* movies children down wells and such that try to pull on your heart strings. It was the same with that video "*The Girl Who Silenced the World for 5 Minutes*" I know people that worked in diplomatic service and these stunts do nothing to change the view of Governments who are the only people who can do something.

I heard a an interview with a prominent campaigner and she said this would do nothing, that it was over simplistic and even if he was captured it would not solve anything. She said and I agree that the money would have been better spent on aid, supplies and education for the people involved.

I really hate coming off negative like this but remember the end poverty wrist bands? How many people still wear them? There now warning of a famine in *West Africa* the only thing that *Live 8* thing did was boost the sales of *Pink Floyd* albums.

This isn't aimed at anyone on the forum, I have no problem with it being posted here or the fact that you may think it's a good thing or that you don't. It's just my opinion I wish these videos etc worked but sadly they just don't.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Lenfer said:


> I don't like this kind of thing. That's not to say it is not done with the best intentions and it will undoubtedly raise awareness. However I just find them so! Ah I don't even know. Like all those *Hollywood* movies children down wells and such that try to pull on your heart strings. It was the same with that video "*The Girl Who Silenced the World for 5 Minutes*" I know people that worked in diplomatic service and these stunts do nothing to change the view of Governments who are the only people who can do something.
> 
> I heard a an interview with a prominent campaigner and she said this would do nothing, that it was over simplistic and even if he was captured it would not solve anything. She said and I agree that the money would have been better spent on aid, supplies and education for the people involved.
> 
> ...


I think a much more fundamental problem of things like this - as evidenced also by your wristband example - is that people absolve themselves of responsibility for the suffering of others after committing to a trivial act like buying a wristband or watching a video that really does nothing to help those who suffer. The theory behind the video is that, somehow, millions of people simply being aware of Kony will lead to intervention because of pressure on the government. When has that ever worked? The government will intervene where it's tactically beneficial, and save on its resources where it isn't.

The same is true of that facebook campaign, "Change your profile picture to help stop ..." I can't remember what it was, might have been child abuse, could have been anything. It's just one giant circle-jerk - people think that by displaying heart-on-sleeve moral support that they are somehow helping people. What the sufferers need is substantial financial support, first-hand aid, resources and education. They will probably never be aware and never feel the effects of millions of people watching a video or posting a picture.

I have nothing against the actual act of raising awareness and sharing information and ideas on YouTube and facebook, I just think we have a more pernicious problem that people think they have done their bit by paying attention and passing stuff on when that's not nearly enough.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

An interesting article, translated from dutch with google:

http://translate.google.com/transla...RSS&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Argues that there is hardly an issue in Uganda, and that the hype is perpetuated for the continued survival and cash-influx of NGOs such as Invisible children


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Polednice quoted nice piece of article. Also:


http://imgur.com/K3mgn


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Speaking generally, in terms of this Kony guy using child soldiers, it's the issue that hits me most. In the 19th century various people, incl. the novelist Charles Dickens, campaigned against children working in factories in the UK (just read _Oliver Twist_, or watch a movie of it to see what he meant). It's been dealt with in the rich countries like UK - eg. the Western countries - but not so in the poorer "third world." Eg. not only this of child soldiers in Africa, but also children making carpets in Pakistan, etc. There are still children working in mines in AFrica today, as well as Asia and South America.

I think this is what hits me with this issue, although what we need is someone with the talent and determination of Charles Dickens to help stamp it out, eg. an African modern day version of him. Not necessarily someone coming from theory with a PHD or anything - Dickens had worked in a factory as a child himself, he was coming from experience, not framed pieces of paper hanging on walls, but anyway. & also, organizations like _Amnesty International _are doing things about exploitation of children as soldiers, I understand.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Washington Post on a screening of the video in Uganda:



> Towards the end of the film, the mood turned more to anger at what many people saw as a foreign, inaccurate account that belittled and commercialized their suffering, as the film promotes Kony bracelets and other fundraising merchandise, with the aim of making Kony infamous... The event ended with the angrier members of the audience throwing rocks and shouting abusive criticism, as the rest fled for safety, leaving an abandoned projector, with organizers and the press running for cover until the dust settled.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> I would feel very disappointed and foolish if that is the case. I got pretty emotional watching the video.


You were supposed to!

Be very wary of ANY such appeals, more to your emotional strings - then to your wallet.

This group -- I saw some articles -- is a PROFIT, i.e. not a non-profit, therefore not a charity. Whether the thrust is to make money and spend it on a particular agenda, or it is even slimier, with a handful getting wealthy while using other emotional, prone-to-causes contributors and volunteers, it is suspicious - raking in alleged multi-millions, with very little of that, evidently, accounted for as to where it goes, where it went.

Frankly, every time I see a plea, for any cause / charity soliciting my funds for wronged animals or people in hardship, and the announcer is a near-tears with a suppressed sob in their voice male or female, I want to put them out of their misery.

If your cause is legit, you don't need to attempt to manipulate my emotions. My head will get what you're talking about.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> .... That really puts me in a bad mood actually.


Its not *nice* to know you've been manipulated, or ripped-off by contributing to a charity which isn't a charity.

This kind of approach to selling / soliciting is endemic now. It is, uh, egregious, but commonplace. These are the times we live in, and it is wise to wait and see... other than that visible tidal wave you want to run away from, I would look into even the best-'appearing' seemingly best intended 'campaign' of any sort - and carefully.

This could be, and it has happened before, a group of marginal people who get the adrenaline thrill of being a kind of mercenary - all those infamously social maladjusts - or some other less than ideal pathology, who are organized, get to get their thrills, make a job and a good living out of their tic.

Attach yourself to a really bad guy as your rallying point (clever) and there ya go....

No, it is not at all nice.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Its not *nice* to know you've been manipulated, or ripped-off by contributing to a charity which isn't a charity.
> 
> This kind of approach to selling / soliciting is endemic now. It is, uh, egregious, but commonplace. These are the times we live in, and it is wise to wait and see... other than that visible tidal wave you want to run away from, I would look into even the best-'appearing' seemingly best intended 'campaign' of any sort - and carefully.
> 
> ...


I will definitely be more careful from now on...I suppose since I'm only 20 this is the process I have to go through to learn about the world.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

*Violadude* I thought you were much older than me I'm 22. Perhaps it's your avatar it reminds me of teacher from years ago. The thread about your sisters boyfriend makes more sense now if only I had known then my advice would have been different.

Now knowing your age I here by invite you to join the *Bright Young Things* of the *Talk Classical* forum. We are a group of young rabble-rousers known for our good looks and sharp wit. So far I'm the only member so your welcome to join.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Lenfer said:


> *Violadude* I thought you were much older than me I'm 22. Perhaps it's your avatar it reminds me of teacher from years ago. The thread about your sisters boyfriend makes more sense now if only I had known then my advice would have been different.
> 
> Now knowing your age I here by invite you to join the *Bright Young Things* of the *Talk Classical* forum. We are a group of young rabble-rousers known for our good looks and sharp wit. So far I'm the only member so your welcome to join.


Haha well I suppose if I sound older than 20 over the internet it's a compliment right? Sure, I'll join that group.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

violadude said:


> Haha well I suppose if I sound older than 20 over the internet it's a compliment right? Sure, I'll join that group.


It was a compliment. 

If you don't mind me asking who is that in your avatar?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Lenfer said:


> It was a compliment.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking who is that in your avatar?


It's Istvan Marta. He's a composer of some pretty interesting pieces for recorded sounds, electronics and acoustic instruments. That's the cover of his only commercially available CD at the moment.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

violadude said:


> I will definitely be more careful from now on...I suppose since I'm only 20 this is the process I have to go through to learn about the world.


No I see no problem with raising awareness of what's been going on in Uganda for decades. Eg. the Lord's resistance army, which is one of the many "roots" of this problem. Also, Africa as a whole (eg. the Democratic Republic of Congo, formerly Zaire, former Belgian colony, heaps of atrocities happening there that no-one cares about). What about Mugabe,how he lost the last election in Zimbabwe, but he's still in power? Who knows about the warlords in Mozambique, or all the stuff going on in Sudan (which is now split into 2 countries, just now George Clooney got arrested for protesting about this in USA). Maybe we should pull him down too?

People on this thread again seem to be going down the pedantic route (& maybe a bit of shoot the messenger as well?). I don't know. I don't care about the people who made this video, I'm more interested in what's going on in Africa (but powerless to do much about it, I'm not a George Clooney or anything like that).

Anyway, I'm sick of automatic cynicism and pedantry on this forum. Look at the big picture. All this stuff is becoming a bit passe and cliche now, just like the only thing I hate in classical music, rehash. But anyway.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Sid, have you watched the video? This isn't pedantry, this is a call to realise that videos like this are just short of being propaganda. Yes, it's good to raise awareness, but while you may think that people are becoming informed about Africa, it's been discussed extensively and convincingly that this video contains gross _mis_information, and possibly for quite dubious purposes. Look at how the Ugandans reacted in the article I linked to above. I try not to be cynical, and I don't like cynicism where I see it, but you've also not got to get sucked into a morally righteous frame of mind, and make sure you still question everything you see.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Sid, theres two of us now who have posted articles from Ugandans or journalists who have worked extensively in the affected area expressing their disagreement with the video.

Kony is hardly an issue, instead we should be focusing on the bigger problems, some of which you have mentioned:
Violence in Sudan
Drought and famine in Somalia
Poverty, theft of land in Zimbabwe
The Rhino crisis


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Well I was reflecting generally on not only this thread. Issue is that Mr. Kony is same as Osama Bin Laden was, even if he is taken out of the picture, there are (as said above by emiel, etc.), deeper things about Uganda, and Africa in general.

My take is any publicity is good publicity. Average person doesn't know about Uganda. The film of about 5 years ago, _The Last King of Scotland_, about Idi Amin's dictatorial rule did raise awareness, but it was a work of fiction loosely based on historical facts.

I think what George CLooney did just now is good also. Anything is good to get Africa in the news. We had the horrible situation in former Yugoslavia in 1990's, eg. genocide, everyone knew about and was talking about it. SImilar things have been going on in Africa for decades, but not many people seem to care. There have been moderate success stories like South Africa, or Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria - I'm talking better governance and running of economy, dealing with various ethnic/tribal problems - but now even many of these places are in trouble (eg. in Ivory Coast as similar things as in Sudan, a partitioning of the country between Muslim north and Christian south, that kind of thing, allied with tribal conflicts, etc.).

So what I'm saying is yes question the specifics but in my book, anything getting people talking about the much stereotyped "dark continent" has an element of positive aspect to it, eg. that we know about these things at least.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Sid James said:


> My take is any publicity is good publicity.


That might be true for Hollywood, but I don't think it holds for issues as serious as these, especially as whenever publicity is pushed, it must be packaged with some kind of story to carry the information, and when the story is deliberately misleading, damage can be caused. This is already obvious with this video, because the idealistic thing - of people seeing the video and thinking, "Hmm, I must find out more about this" - didn't happen. What happened instead was that people were completely taken in and fawned over every last bit of information in the video, despite not having even attempted to corroborate the claims. I mean, this is why politics sucks in general - because the populous is misinformed on very serious issues and, quelle surprise, it's usually because of lies or simplicity in media.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

*Invisible Children Co-Founder Detained: SDPD*
SDPD said he was found ************ in public, vandalizing cars and possibly under the influence of something

_Source: Invisible Children Co-Founder Detained: SDPD | NBC San Diego_
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...o-invisible-children-kony-2012-142970255.html


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

@ polednice -

A former Australian Prime Minister said "never underestimate the intelligence of the Australian electorate." What he's saying is don't think the plebs are stupid and gullible, or not all of them. I feel there's an ivory tower attitude around many cliques, esp. intellectual ones, but whatever - political, or as here, musical. There's always a feeling of we're better than them.

Thing is, the even in Murdoch's press, articles in those tabloids here where questioning this Kony video. I mean tabloids are for the plebs, the great unwashed, or more balanced way, ordinary people. Blue collar workers, also some in low to middle income bracket. Even they, if they read the articles (as I did), get that kind of info, critical of the video, the specifics.

I don't know about fawning. I haven't talked about this Kony thing in real life here, I've had too much going on for more than breif chats. I'm usually not into the news. But I'm atypical, probably, of members of this forum. I don't much care about politics. The old left vs. right stuff. What I care is that people know what's going on outside their backyards, so to speak. & this video has done this. Not perfectly, but it has exposed people to things like using children as soldiers. 

Of course as I said, Amnesty International have also done this, in the press here they put some ads, showing a child with a gun, the caption saying his name and "war veteran, 13 years old." Amnesty is doing it better, not for any gain or profit, or any possible kick back, but truth is that if people are exposed to these issues, they are intelligent enough to find out more if it interests them, and spread the word.

I think I'm trying to be general and positive. We're probably on different wavelength on this one, but anyway.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Yes, we're on a different wavelength, so I won't say more other than that I admire your optimism, but think it approaches severe issues a little too simplistically.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

The co-founder of Invisible Children has been taken to hospital in San Diego, California, after he was found semi-naked and screaming at traffic ... Officers responded to a radio call to check the welfare of an individual who was said to be running in the street, interfering with traffic, screaming - one person said that he was naked and ************.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

PetrB said:


> I hate these 'newer-age' manipulative play-on-your emotions pleas.
> They are insulting to the intelligence, as if the basic facts were not enough to have you understand.
> 
> About every 'cause' I can think of now has a PR strategy using this approach.
> ...


I completely agree with this and thought the video was poorly done. I also agree heavily with what Polednice has to say. I'm tired of watching all of these people become self-righteous like they are doing something and flaunting it all about with their wristbands or their facebook profiles. Honestly, give me a break. I find it offensive and the idea of charity in my nation is a sickening idea. It caters to those who are emotionally easy and the rich who are "obligated", and its all so they can feel nice and warm about themselves, like they are fine upstanding citizens and caring individuals who then go on their way without giving any more conscious though to the issue and instead actively participate in things that bring what they are supposedly against to life.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Polednice said:


> The co-founder of Invisible Children has been taken to hospital in San Diego, California, after he was found semi-naked and screaming at traffic ... Officers responded to a radio call to check the welfare of an individual who was said to be running in the street, interfering with traffic, screaming - one person said that he was naked and ************.


There is a video out of him naked on the side of the street bending over and slapping the concrete, if you're interested.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> There is a video out of him naked on the side of the street bending over and slapping the concrete, if you're interested.


I was interested, but the news site I tried to view it on removed the article before I had chance. No doubt someone will have it on YouTube somewhere.


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