# Classical Connections



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Inspired by the 'Rate the piece above you' thread, I've been wanting to play a little game! 

I'm not sure how easy it will be, or how far it might go, but it's all in the name - classical connections. One person offers a piece of music (with a link to a YouTube video) and the next person has to link to a piece of music that has something in common.

For example, I say 'Tchaikovsky's Francesca da Rimini', you say 'Liszt's Dante Symphony' (both of them being based on Dante's poem). Then perhaps from there to Liszt's 'Faust Symphony', and there to Tchaikovsky's 'Manfred Symphony' (both of them being based on works written by/inspired by Goethe).

Of course, it's not limited to Tchaikovsky and Liszt  Plus, the connections you make can be as obvious or tangential as you like, so long as you can justify them! Even if it's just a great similarity in orchestration, emotion, or a 'stolen' motif, make whatever connection you can - just don't post a piece already mentioned in the thread!

_Only make a connection to a work by the same composer if you can't think of anything else!_

Too many rules, I know 

So, I'll start us off with a work that no doubt inspired many composers: Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

My answer to that is *Fatum* by Tchaikovsky. The connection between the two is that, although neither has an explicit programme, they both are concerned with the theme of Fate.

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You should state in your post what the connection is? It might be more fun to let people guess. Anyway, now somebody needs to connect _Fatum_ with something else.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> *
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> 
> ...


Yay! Good choice, I was thinking of the same piece 

You're right, it might be more fun to let people guess what the connection is. With that aim then, a simplified version of a post should be:

#1 Guess the last connection.
Post your own connection without saying what it is.

#2 Guess the last connection.
Post your own connection without saying what it is.

Once we know what we're doing, it'll be fun, I promise!  I'll let someone else have a go connecting _Fatum_ with something!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

To be fair, one must give the next player something to work with, so if the piece has a title or program it is easier. Also one should try to avoid repeating the same program several times, as we would run out of pieces. Difficult on several levels!

Grabbing at straws here:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

But, of course, if the programme is too hard to make a connection with, or it doesn't seem as though another piece has similar orchestration, motifs or inspiration, then you can just look to titles and opus numbers etc. as I believe you did!  Both _Fatum_ and the Sonata being Opus 77 of their respective composers. If that's not the link you intended, then it's a great coincidence!

Now, from Dussek to Verdi! Here are the witches from his opera _Macbeth_ (introduction then witches at 3:00):


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm guessing that the connection between the Dussek and Verdi pieces is witchcraft, since invocation was used by witches.

The next one is James MacMillan's *The Confession of Isobel Gowdie*:

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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

This calls for some Berlioz, I think: Symphonie fantastique!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

- very similiar!


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Aramis said:


> - very similiar!


Okay, then I'll continue with Beethoven's 6th:


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Brahms' pastoral symphony...


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

mueske said:


> Brahms' pastoral symphony...


 It's great that more people are posting on this thread, but let's not get carried away! It would be much better if you'd all be so kind as to point out the connection between the last two posts and then post your own video without stating the connection  Even if you think it's really obvious!

So, the connection between the last two was symphonies that are often referred to as Pastoral, now from Brahms's 2nd to Dvorak's 6th:


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Polednice said:


> It's great that more people are posting on this thread, but let's not get carried away! It would be much better if you'd all be so kind as to point out the connection between the last two posts and then post your own video without stating the connection  Even if you think it's really obvious!
> 
> So, the connection between the last two was symphonies that are often referred to as Pastoral, now from Brahms's 2nd to Dvorak's 6th:


The key of D major?

From Dvorak's 6th to (yes, what?) to Beethovens 8th piano sonata. They are connected through a third piece.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

TresPicos said:


> The key of D major?


That's one similarity, but I was focusing more on the great influence that Brahms's 2nd had on Dvorak's 6th. If you listen to the last movements of each symphony, the opening orchestration and form is almost the same 

I'll let someone else take that Beethoven somewhere!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

TresPicos said:


> The key of D major?
> 
> From Dvorak's 6th to (yes, what?) to Beethovens 8th piano sonata. They are connected through a third piece.


I think it's from Dvorak's 6th via Tchaikovsky's 6th "Pathetique" to Beethoven's 8th Piano Sonata, also called "Pathetique."

So what's the connection between *Beethoven's 8th Piano Sonata* and *Mozart's 14th Piano Sonata K457*:

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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> I think it's from Dvorak's 6th via Tchaikovsky's 6th "Pathetique" to Beethoven's 8th Piano Sonata, also called "Pathetique."


Correct.

Maybe I should explain my previous posts:

- James MacMillan's The Confession of Isobel Gowdie -> Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique: 
_A continuation of the witch theme (Berlioz, mvmt 5)_

- Berlioz=Liszt: Symphonie Fantastique -> Beethoven: Pastoral symphony
_Another symphony that Liszt transcribed for piano._


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

TresPicos said:


> - James MacMillan's The Confession of Isobel Gowdie -> Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique:
> _A continuation of the witch theme (Berlioz, mvmt 5)_


There's a second connection between Macbeth and Isobel Gowdie--they both take place in Scotland.


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> I think it's from Dvorak's 6th via Tchaikovsky's 6th "Pathetique" to Beethoven's 8th Piano Sonata, also called "Pathetique."
> 
> So what's the connection between *Beethoven's 8th Piano Sonata* and *Mozart's 14th Piano Sonata K457*:
> 
> ...


Another 18th century piano sonata in C minor?

Let's continue with a sinfonia by Johann Joseph Fux. It could have been any piece by him, really.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

TresPicos said:


> Another 18th century piano sonata in C minor?


I think that, more specifically, the two sonatas are supposed to have very similar sounding second movements, and Mozart's sonata is often described as a forerunner of Beethoven's in overall form


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Really, both answers are correct, and are what I had in mind. Now it's somebody's turn to build on Johann Fux.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Really, both answers are correct, and are what I had in mind. Now it's somebody's turn to build on Johann Fux.


I think this is slightly too easy.. anyway:





Mozart Symphony 41, specifically the last movement contains a clue.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

You have to state the connection between the Mozart and Fux first


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Ah yes sorry..

The Mozart movement contains a fugue, and Mozart learned counterpoint from Fux's book.


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> Ah yes sorry..
> 
> The Mozart movement contains a fugue, and Mozart learned counterpoint from Fux's book.


A good one, but not the one I though of. It has to do with the K.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

That the works of both composers are catalogued with a K?


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> I think this is slightly too easy.. anyway:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it your connection that links Mozart to Fux through counterpoint (i.e. the fugal coda at the end of the fourth movement)?

I can think of some slightly more obscure connections, but I'm going to give a _really, really_ obvious connection here to see if we can throw ourselves into a completely different type of music and make some more interesting connections!


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> That the works of both composers are catalogued with a K?


Ludwig Köchel catalogued the works of two composers: Mozart and Fux. So both pieces have Köchel numbers.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Polednice said:


> I'm going to give a _really, really_ obvious connection here to see if we can throw ourselves into a completely different type of music and make some more interesting connections!


The connection between Mozart and Holst is the planet Jupiter, of course.

So what connects *The Planets* with Mahler's *Symphony No. 10*?

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LATER EDIT: Maybe I'd better supply a hint. The connection is through a third composer.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Nobody wants to take a stab at it? Here's another hint. It has to do with the planet Pluto.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Nobody wants to take a stab at it? Here's another hint. It has to do with the planet Pluto.


Colin Matthews did the "Completion of both works"? (Pluto movent for Planets & Completion of M10?) .


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

That's right, although he was one one of several people involved in the completion of Mahler's 10th.
Now it's your turn to connect Mahler's 10th with something.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> That's right, although he was one one of several people involved in the completion of Mahler's 10th.
> Now it's your turn to connect Mahler's 10th with something.


Cool, sorry for the late reply! :
Maybe a bit easy but what connects Mahler's 10th Symphony with Prokofiev's 5th Symphony?


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