# Separating Movements



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Is there any context where you see this as being ok to be done? I'm slowly opening up to it.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I like to hear whole pieces. There are a few movements that I am happy to listen to on their own but I think you miss a lot doing that. As a child I always missed out the first two movements of the Sinfonie Fantastique and I would often jump a Mozart slow movement. But you miss so much doing that.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Do you mean like doing it in concert? There was a time when separate movements of symphonies and concertos would appear. The 2nd of the Beethoven 7th for example. Or the last movement of Symphonie Fantastique on a Halloween themed program. But other than that, no, it's not a good idea. One orchestra I used to play with would do 3 of the 4 movements of a symphony because the manager, founder, and boss didn't like "boring" slow movements. So a performance of the Brahms 2nd omitted the second movement. That was about the time I quit.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Do you mean like doing it in concert? There was a time when separate movements of symphonies and concertos would appear. The 2nd of the Beethoven 7th for example. Or the last movement of Symphonie Fantastique on a Halloween themed program. But other than that, no, it's not a good idea. One orchestra I used to play with would do 3 of the 4 movements of a symphony because the manager, founder, and boss didn't like "boring" slow movements. So a performance of the Brahms 2nd omitted the second movement. That was about the time I quit.


Any context really...where you find it appropriate.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm one of the dinosaurs who will never get used to this. Except for Mahler's Adagietto from the 5th.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^^^ That is one of the few "pieces" where IMO it can work - the adagio can be programmed to play a cooling or soothing role in a different programme. But, even then, why not a piece that is intended as standalone.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

At a music camp, I've performed with a group that played only a movement or two from a symphony. We rehearsed for a week, and performed for ourselves at the end of the week. The first movement of Mahler's first symphony and a couple of movements from Shostakovich fifth, and Schumann third. Each of these in a different year. That was simply due to time constraints and that we're just a bunch of amateurs. And this also goes for our string quartet, we rehearsed one movement from a quartet to perform at the end of the week. 

I have never of a professional orchestra performing only a single movement of a symphony. I hope they don't, and I'd never attend if they did. 

I won't listen to a single movement of a symphony, or quartet. I'll listen to the whole thing.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

This is purely a matter of personal preference. Some prefer to hear the entire work. Others may find that they prefer certain movements and may even wish to put a number of individual movements on a playlist. I don’t follow the premise that unless you listen to the entire work, you’re missing something. I have carefully put together Adagios from the lesser known concertos and symphonies of the 19th century in long music files (some 12 hours worth in total).


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## Schoenberg (Oct 15, 2018)

I generally do not believe this is good.
If the work can be considered "standalone," or is of (arguable) better quality than the rest of the piece, I could make an exception to this rule. Also when they are separated with the composers intent, after the publishment of the work. (example: grosse fugue.) Also, for transcriptions it is acceptable for a transcription to be of only one movement. (example, Busoni's arrangement of the bwv 1004 chaconne.)


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I will sometimes listen to separate movements for long works that I am unfamiliar with e.g. Mahler so that I can try to get some familiarity before listening to it all
The other time I might do this is with contemporary works which I find hard to follow, again as a prelude to trying the whole thing.
I struggle to get much satisfaction listening to single movements in isolation other than in the above circumstances, hence I find Classic FM here in the UK frustrating. Compilation albums of ‘Classical music greatest hits’ I have no interest in


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## fliege (Nov 7, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is there any context where you see this as being ok to be done? I'm slowly opening up to it.


I think it's OK to do it whenever you feel like it. Likely nothing terrible will happen, even if you overindulge from time to time.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

fliege said:


> I think it's OK to do it whenever you feel like it. Likely nothing terrible will happen, even if you overindulge from time to time.


Yeah. I don't have a lot of free time, especially with Mahler and Brucker, and I find myself only able to squeeze in one or two movements. I haven't noticed a decrease in my listening experience, because I know what's coming next even if I don't physically hear it.

Of course, I've noticed that lately the climate is changing. Maybe by doing that I'm setting off a cosmic maelstrom.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

If a movement can't stand on its own as a piece of music, then it's not a very good one.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^^^ I don't think the point is whether the movement _can_ stand on its own (or whether you will be dragged down to hell if you do listen to a movement alone). The point is that to really _hear_ the piece it is necessary (or nearly so) to listen to it in context. Otherwise you don't hear all that it is. This said, there is surely no harm in getting to know a long work by listening to it in pieces and perhaps hearing each piece several times before moving on. I do still do that with some operas. But ultimately you are going to need to put it all together.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

When was in CM radio, my one hard and fast rule, was: no isolated movements (except operatic arias, overtures, or things like a single Slavonic Dance).


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## Kollwitz (Jun 10, 2018)

I much prefer to listen to whole works, but individual movements or pairs are a necessary evil given work/family time constraints. There are times when 20/30/40 minutes of a Mahler or Bruckner symphony is better than none at all, particularly when one knows the work reasonably well. Wagner operas often have to be spread across a few days by Act. It's suboptimal, but I'm a pragmatist.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is there any context where you see this as being ok to be done? I'm slowly opening up to it.


do you mean in concert presentation?? or for your own personal listening??


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> do you mean in concert presentation?? or for your own personal listening??


Anything...really. I'm open to both you mentioned.


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## Euler (Dec 3, 2017)

DaveM said:


> I don't follow the premise that unless you listen to the entire work, you're missing something.


In general or always? Surely you've listened to a complete work and found it more than the sum of its parts, felt the movements interact in a heightening way, appreciated the emotional arc across a multi-movement piece?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

It was by listening to the full works -symphonies, concertos, trios, quartets- that I came to appreciate certain movements for standalone listening and the fact is that most movements are perfectly fine standalone works. For instance, good chunks of movement 2 of Beethoven’s 7th are played during The King’s Speech movie and if someone wasn’t familiar with the work, they would not know the difference —whether it was standalone or not- or care for that matter.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Euler said:


> In general or always? Surely you've listened to a complete work and found it more than the sum of its parts, felt the movements interact in a heightening way, appreciated the emotional arc across a multi-movement piece?


Of course, that's probably the experience of most of us who have been listening to classical music for decades. When we have heard a work for the first time, we binge on it and suck every precious moment out of it. But that doesn't mean that we have to listen to the entire work as opposed to single movements forever. For me, there are a few exceptions eg. Beethoven's 6th is a work that I always prefer to hear entirely.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Anything...really. I'm open to both you mentioned.


For my own personal listening, I frequently listen to individual movements, not the whole work...I go by what I want to hear at the moment...

for a full symphony concert - no - perform entire works....but for special events, kids' concerts, Pops programs, yeh, performing individual movements is ok, usually to support a particular theme of the program, etc...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> For my own personal listening, I frequently listen to individual movements, not the whole work...O go by what I want to hear at the moment...
> 
> for a full symphony concert - no - perform entire works....but for special events, kids' concerts, Pops programs, yeh, performing individual movements is ok, usually to support a particular theme of the program, etc...


I think that's the direction I'm heading in as well...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Something like Beethoven's 9th feels very much like one complete work to me, at least...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

If Beethoven had published one of his concerto adagios as simply ‘Adagio’, instead of as part of a concerto, would anyone have known the difference?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is there any context where you see this as being ok to be done? I'm slowly opening up to it.


I think it is, but its preferable that you know the whole work from which the movement you are extracting comes from. I've done this with works where the rest of the piece doesn't interest me, some examples being:

Mahler Adagietto - Symphony No. 5
Rachmaninov Adagio - Symphony No. 2
Chopin Larghetto - Piano Concerto No. 2

In the above pieces, those slow movements are the focal points so they aren't so hard to separate from their contexts. In a work like Franck's Symphony in D Minor I find it harder to do the same, since the whole work is so tightly integrated and the middle movement is a pivot where themes from earlier mix with new ones and suggestions of the finale.

Integrity matters less when we are dealing with a suite. Here, movements tend to be grouped together to form a whole based on pleasing contrasts rather than the thematic connections between them. This is especially true for pieces composed prior to the early 19th century, Boccherini's famous Minuet in G being a case in point. I no longer have that particular quintet, as charming as it was. I've got a couple of other complete quintets by him, but not that one.


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