# Do you ever think of composers in terms of their greatest moment as an orchestrator?



## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

Obviously you can't fully seperate the composer from the orchestrator but in a sense it is two seperate crafts right?

So I always try to think of a composers biggest moment as an orchestrator

For example IMO, Wagner's greatest moment would be Ride of the valkyries (the wonderful layers of horns), or for Holst, it's Mars the bringer of war, for Mozart, perhaps the overture for Marriage of Figaro....

That would also bring up the question of, what is Beethovens biggest moment?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I am constantly amazed by the rich tonalities made by various combinations of instruments. Recently, I have been enamoured by Boulez and Carter's use of clarinet and other instruments, instead of the more common strings, in order to create vivid timbres.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> I am constantly amazed by the rich tonalities made by various combinations of instruments. Recently, I have been enamoured by Boulez and Carter's use of clarinet and other instruments, instead of the more common strings, in order to create vivid timbres.


That's rather nicely put, Brotagonist. Are you a visual French-influenced artist-musician-music lover ('tonality'/timbre/colour...)?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> That's rather nicely put, Brotagonist. Are you a visual French-influenced artist-musician-music lover ('tonality'/timbre/colour...)?


Thanks. Actually, I am a formal structure German-influenced music lover  But I am starting to understand the lineages of the great modern composers and, as I do, I hear these lineages.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

Beethoven's greatest moment was obviously the Allegretto of No. 7 or the Ode to Joy. Duh.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

As an orchestrator, I think Beethoven's greatest moments came in the Pastoral Symphony. The Storm movement.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Haydn's greatest orchestral moments? It's subjective of course, but to me, these stick out: Symphony 102, Adagio, The Creation - 'Rollend in schäumended Wellen' - middle part where the orchestral sound opens up and all the awesome solo passages for the violins and winds can be heard. Both sunrise movements in The Creation and The Seasons are amazing, I also really like the introduction to Winter in the Seasons.


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## randomnese (Nov 30, 2013)

Definitely Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 2nd movt. The way he crosses ascending and descending scales in different instruments is awe-inspiring.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Das Lied von der Erde is probably Mahler's greatest achievement as an orchestrator, competing only with the 10th in that matter. Sibelius 7th is his greatest achievement in monochromatic orchestration, all the orchestra is one (one kind find a more coloristic approach in his symphonic poems like Pohjola's Daughter). In the case of Brahms it might be his 3rd Symphony, or the second Piano Concerto.


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## Matsps (Jan 13, 2014)

Rachmaninoff - The 2nd and 3rd piano concertos... Very very difficult to separate these two works into one better than the other. 
Holst - I have to disagree with the OP and say Neptune is his best orchestration. Emotional and moving, it reminds me of works such as Debussy - Reverie. Not all that many notes, but every one is perfect.


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

I can't help but think of Stravinsky: the overwhelming texture of the Rite of Spring, and the comparatively light text of Pucinella or the chamber textures of Soldier's Tale or the Octet or Dumbarton Oaks Concerto. All show his range as composer and orchestrator....

As for Beethoven's biggest moment, it would have to be the Ode to Joy of the Symphony #9.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ericdxx said:


> Obviously you can't fully seperate the *composer from the orchestrator but in a sense it is two separate crafts right?*


"in a sense it is two separate crafts right?"

LOL. I do not agree at all.

That might be more true in the Hollywood film score industry, where typically many a composer valued for his theme / tune smithery does no more than write a piano draft, with another musician who is a specialist in orchestration doing the registration.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> That might be more true in the Hollywood film score industry, where typically many a composer valued for his theme / tune smithery does no more than write a piano draft, with another musician who is a specialist in orchestration doing the registration.


Shostakovich accused Prokofiev of doing essentially the same thing, having his students do the orchestration of his original piano scores. I don't much credit this, since P's orchestration is pretty singular. More likely he had his students do some (with pretty specific instructions) and cleaned up the results afterward. Everybody gains.

Shostakovich claimed he "heard" his music originally as instrumented, and generally didn't have a piano intermediate step.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

For Haydn I'd say either The Seasons, The Creation or the Harmoniemesse. The orchestration there is terrific .


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I recently listened to Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe and it's amazing.
And now I also know where movie composer Danny Elfman got his sound from.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DeepR said:


> And now I also know where movie composer Danny Elfman got his sound from.


You mean Prokofiev?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The harp glissandi by Debussy in La Mer. Creates just the mood he was looking for, in my opinion.


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