# Question to fans of Arnold Schöenberg



## ericdxx (Jul 7, 2013)

In your opnion...

What is the best melody that he ever wrote?

What is the most bombastic moment in all of his music?

What is the most heartfelt moment?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

1. Perhaps one of the Leider but I'm not too familiar with these works.
2. Violin concerto, 3rd movement (holy smokes!)
3. Many may say "Verchlact nacht" but I've never warmed to that. For me it would be one of the complex moments near the end of Op. 29 wind suite.

I'm on a shaky bus trying use a phone with autocorrect so these spellings are a real bear!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ericdxx said:


> In your opnion...
> 
> What is the best melody that he ever wrote?


Somewhere in the fourth quartet, the slow movement



ericdxx said:


> In your opnion...
> 
> What is the most bombastic moment in all of his music?


The orgy in Moses and Aaron, or maybe in the variations on a recitative.



ericdxx said:


> What is the most heartfelt moment?


Somewhere in the op 45 trio


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Schönberg or Schoenberg...not Schöenberg.

What is the best melody that he ever wrote?

The opening vocal melody of the last movement of the second string quartet.

What is the most bombastic moment in all of his music?

The end of Gurrelieder.

What is the most heartfelt moment?

Slow movement in the string trio opus 45, maybe.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Schoenberg's best melody is the Wood Dove song from Gurrelieder, which is also his most impassioned tonal work with quite a loud ending. I hear great "heartfelt" qualities in both his wind quintet and his Suite for Woodwinds Op. 29 that occupies similar territory for me.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

My opinion: I think all three of your questions can be answered somewhere in the 3rd and 4th string quartets, and the Op. 11 solo piano piece. Again, just my thoughts.

-09


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

ericdxx said:


> In your opnion...
> 
> What is the best melody that he ever wrote?
> 
> ...


The most heartfelt moment: the opening of the Schoenberg Piano Concerto. Hauntingly beautiful.

I like his Piano Concerto and Violin Concerto very much, but I do not consider myself a fan, since over 90% of my musical encounters are with Bach and Schumann.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The most heartfelt moment: the opening of the Schoenberg Piano Concerto. Hauntingly beautiful.
> 
> I like his Piano Concerto and Violin Concerto very much, but I do not consider myself a fan, since over 90% of my musical encounters are with Bach and Schumann.


There are countless moments of beauty in Schoenberg's work. Sad that so many hear the word "atonal" attached to it and shut off.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Omicron9 said:


> There are countless moments of beauty in Schoenberg's work. Sad that so many hear the word "atonal" attached to it and shut off.


It's the same attitude that prevents pop listeners from engaging classical music.

A pre-judged, programmed revulsion based on ignorance: mainstream classical listeners not engaging Schoenberg's music.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

hpowders said:


> It's the same attitude that prevents pop listeners from engaging classical music.
> 
> A pre-judged, programmed revulsion based on ignorance: mainstream classical listeners not engaging Schoenberg's music.


Agreed, hpowders. And this sad state isn't just limited to Schoenberg and the Second Viennese School. I've seen/heard people react negatively to 20/21st-century composers only because they're of the 20/21st-century. Without having heard their music.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

For me the answer to all three questions is _Verchlact nacht_.

I recently heard the strings from the United States Marine Orchestra perform the work without a conductor. It was one of the most powerful extraordinary performances I have ever heard. The live performance was much more intense than listening to a recording. They received an enthusiastic standing ovation.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I presume we are talking about Verklärte Nacht? Not another work by Schönberg with which I am unacquainted.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Barbebleu said:


> I presume we are talking about Verklärte Nacht? Not another work by Schönberg with which I am unacquainted.


Really. Because I did not go to "Character Map" and put an umlaut over the 'a' you had no idea what work I was talking about?

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my spelling of "Verclock Nåcht".

Check post number two. He did it wrong as well.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I was not offended but surely the work deserves to be spelled correctly?

I apologise if I came across as unnecessarily tetchy. And I did notice post #2 but he was on a shaky bus trying to use auto-correct.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

The first movements of the piano concerto and the violin concerto are Schoenberg's finest moments. I would include these two works to answer both question 1 and 2. (Though these two pieces are not ranked highly in my favorites for the genre but are Schoenberg specific to answer the thread's questions).

As for which is the most bombastic, that's harder for me to say as I would not use the word "bombastic" to describe Schoenberg's music. Atonal music is not about bombastic, it's more about exploring the boundaries of sound for it's own sake at a theoretical level to exhaust all the tonal scales.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

"The best" is the one you like the most.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Barbebleu said:


> I presume we are talking about Verklärte Nacht? Not another work by Schönberg with which I am unacquainted.


I was not in a position to look up the spelling in my post from a while back.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> <snip!>
> Atonal music is not about bombastic, it's more about exploring the boundaries of sound for it's own sake at a theoretical level to exhaust all the tonal scales.


That's one take on it. Another take on it is that atonality, and/or dodecaphonic composition, is another tool in a composer's toolbox, or another set of colors on a palette, which helps a composer to more fully express themselves.


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## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)

I'd say the Op. 31 _Variations for Orchestra_ has some bombastic parts here and there. Nothing for too long of an extended period of time, but it has it's moments, including the climactic ending.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Omicron9 said:


> That's one take on it. Another take on it is that atonality, and/or dodecaphonic composition, is another tool in a composer's toolbox, or another set of colors on a palette, which helps a composer to more fully express themselves.


We could also think of serialism as a limiting framework to work within in the same way a fugue might be considered limiting. The limitations can be a springboard for creativity. I wouldn't know but I imagine it's a brutal discipline. I can't conceive of having to do a painting for instance requiring all the colors at our disposal.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

Weston said:


> We could also think of serialism as a limiting framework to work within in the same way a fugue might be considered limiting. The limitations can be a springboard for creativity. I wouldn't know but I imagine it's a brutal discipline. I can't conceive of having to do a painting for instance requiring all the colors at our disposal.


True perhaps, but not as limiting as diatonic composing where you're limited to one key (not counting modulations). THAT is limiting. Yes, I'm aware that some great work have come out of that limitation, but to my way of thinking and listening, diatonicism is the very definition of limitation.

So, all art forms and approaches have their limitations and advantages. Atonal and serial composing practices are just additional vehicles for realizing a vision.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Omicron9 said:


> True perhaps, but not as limiting as diatonic composing where you're limited to one key (not counting modulations). THAT is limiting..


Well, yeah, but that's why no one wrote that way (until early minimalism in the 20th century).


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Omicron9 said:


> So, all art forms and approaches have their limitations and advantages. Atonal and serial composing practices are just additional vehicles for realizing a vision.


Yes, and a composer such as Berg is the grand example.


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## Dumbo (Sep 3, 2017)

I like Schoenberg... but...

Here it is, 2017, and we're still trying to justify him and a lot of other composers from a hundred years ago. It seems like music got off on the wrong track somewhere, not just with Schoenberg, but with most of the 20th century. Something new, REALLY new, will have to emerge from the chaos. When great composers like Penderecki abandon atonalism and revert back to Sonata-Allegro in disgust, it seems like a sign to me that the previous century's burst of creative chaos was not nearly as fertile as everybody hoped.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Dumbo said:


> I like Schoenberg... but...
> 
> Here it is, 2017, and we're still trying to justify him and a lot of other composers from a hundred years ago. It seems like music got off on the wrong track somewhere, not just with Schoenberg, but with most of the 20th century. Something new, REALLY new, will have to emerge from the chaos. When great composers like Penderecki abandon atonalism and revert back to Sonata-Allegro in disgust, it seems like a sign to me that the previous century's burst of creative chaos was not nearly as fertile as everybody hoped.


I don't agree. Penderecki's early music is the more vital, creative, and interesting stuff. It needs no justification from critics or fans at this point. Same for Schoenberg and others.


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## Dumbo (Sep 3, 2017)

I agree with everything you said. But I still feel the 20th century ran its course. Minimalism was the last nail in the coffin. We aren't at the point anymore that we have to justify hundred year old works for being the cutting edge. We have no cutting edge anymore. Classical music is eroding into museum pieces and academic exercises.

Like Zarathustra, I await the coming of the Uber-Composer!


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

The uber-composer is dead, we killed him.


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## pokeefe0001 (Jan 15, 2017)

Omicron9 said:


> Weston said:
> 
> 
> > We could also think of serialism as a limiting framework to work within in the same way a fugue might be considered limiting. The limitations can be a springboard for creativity. I wouldn't know but I imagine it's a brutal discipline. I can't conceive of having to do a painting for instance requiring all the colors at our disposal.
> ...


On the other hand, Schoenberg himself said "There is still plenty of good music to be written in C major".


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