# The grey thread.



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

We want to demonstrate that not all is black or white in classical music: there are greys.
So, pick the less appealing piece, to you, from your favorite composer and the most redeeming piece, to you, from your least favorite composer.
I always hated Mozart, except for one piece, which is the first Mozart piece that I heard, the Requiem.
From Ravel, sincerely, is very hard for me to find a piece of him that I don't like. Under pressure, I think I would pick the Bolero.
From Ligeti, I'm not a fan of his Six Bagatelles for Wind Quintet.
Your turn. :devil:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

My top 3 composers and the worst I heard from them:
JS Bach - Kaffeekantate
G Mahler - Symphony 8
J Brahms - Piano sonatas

For the other side of the coin, I picked 3 composers that are not least favourite, but whom I like far less than most:
GF Handel - Water music
Verdi - Requiem
Bartok - Violin concerto 2


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Interesting thread. I think many people will be able to find enjoyable works from some composers they generally don't like. As aleazk stated it may be very hard for people to find unenjoyable works from their favorite composer.

I have struggled with Ligeti ever since I first heard his music. While aleazk doesn't like his Bagatelles for Wind Quintet, I quite like them. 

My favorite composer is Mozart, and there is nothing I have ever heard by him that I do not like. I did see Cosi fan tutti recently and found myself unhappy enough with the plot that it detracted from my experience of the opera.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Least favorite works from some of my favorite composers:
Nielsen - 5 Piano Pieces, Op 3
Barber - Knoxville Summer 1915

Favorite works from some of my least favorite composers:
Chopin - Finale to Funeral March Sonata / Piano Concerto 1
Lizst - once in a while I can listen to one of the Hungarian Rhapsodies, if I'm in the mood


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

Least favorite works from my favorite composers :

Beethoven - I can hardly find one...I will consider, for instance : Christ on the Mount of Olives.
Bach - Schweigt stille, plaudert nicht, BWV 211 ("The Coffee" Cantata)
Arvo Pärt - My Heart's in the Highlands (it is not that I don't like it, but is the one I like least)

Favorite works from least favorite composers :

Mozart - Requiem
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
Wagner - Siegfried Idyll


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Satie and Ravel never made poor music. Neither did any Russian ever in existence. I don't think I have a "least favorite" composer... I tend to enjoy them all, but to play along:

My favorite composer's work that I don't really care for that is acclaimed
Schoenberg's Erwartung. I should give it more listens, but it has never been one of my favorite Schoenberg pieces...

Least favorite composer's work that I really like?
Alejandro Azkárate's Cycle of Piano Poems, perhaps.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Satie and Ravel never made poor music. Neither did any Russian ever in existence. I don't think I have a "least favorite" composer... I tend to enjoy them all, but to play along:
> 
> My favorite composer's work that I don't really care for that is acclaimed
> Schoenberg's Erwartung. I should give it more listens, but it has never been one of my favorite Schoenberg pieces...
> ...


You are a fan of CoAG?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

No, his music is trash. I only heard this shoddy guitar work of his that he never got around to actually performing with real instruments. I was excited about it too... I wonder if it has come to fruit yet.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

Least favorite works from favorite composers:

Bach: Organ Chorales 
Beethoven: Wellington's Victory
Mozart: Canons like "Leck mich im Arsch" K. 231 (K. 382c)

Not sure how to name least favorite composers: there are so many of them that I do not know!


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Least favourite composers:

Mozart's Marriage of Figaro overture
Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto
Brahms's Cello Sonatas

Favourite composers:

Bartok's Piano Quintet (and other early stuff)
can't think of one for Stravinsky or Ravel...
Schoenberg's Drei Klavierstücke
Shostakovich's Suite for Variety Orchestra


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

aleazk said:


> We want to demonstrate that not all is black or white in classical music: there are greys.
> So, pick the less appealing piece, to you, from your favorite composer and the most redeeming piece, to you, from your least favorite composer.
> I always hated Mozart, except for one piece, which is the first Mozart piece that I heard, the Requiem.
> From Ravel, sincerely, is very hard for me to find a piece of him that I don't like. Under pressure, I think I would pick the Bolero.
> Your turn. :devil:


I agree with you totally! Only I don't "hate" Mozart, but strongly don't prefer him, and for me, it's also the Requiem that redeems him. Although, his clarinet stuff is pretty nice, and some flute. And same opinion with Ravel.

We are very alike! 

Ok, for me:

I really really really don't prefer Beethoven, but his Violin Concerto redeems him for me. 

And for Prokofiev, possibly the Seven, There Are Seven Canata. It's just doesn't really work for me. I don't like his choral/vocal style.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

From composers that I'm not as often fond of:
Ligeti-Atmospheres is very cool, just the right length and very unique.
Elliot Carter-1st string quartet, despite the fact that it is crazy, complicated and ugly as all get out, its just refined enough for it to be cool, as opposed to his other insane stuff that I don't bother with
Messaien-A few shorts from the "glances of the baby jesus" collection for piano are pretty neat
William Schuman-His 3rd symphony I've very fond of, but most of his other work is not my bag so much these days

From composers I'm usually very fond of
Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony goes on too long with the same blandish thematic material for me.
Some of CPE Bach's Rondos don't seem very interesting to me, though they are often performed not to my satisfaction and with those improvisatory pieces, a performance makes a bigger difference
Medtner's Night Wind sonata is often just too long for me with too little variety.

I don't really know though...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I think there are many grey areas in music appreciation, and how my perception changes over time is the beauty of it.

Least favourite works from my favourite composers:

*Beethoven* - _Wellington's Victory _(ironically, audiences & I think critics of his day liked this more than the 7th symphony, composed at the same time - things have changed, have they not?)
*Tchaikovsky* - _Eugene Onegin _(one of the most boring operas in the whole repertoire...except for the famous waltz...you were great, Pyotr Ilyich, a legend, but not in this one, methinks)
*Mendelssohn* - _Violin Concerto in E minor_ (innovative in some ways but this warhorse seems to overshadow many lesser known works of his, eg. his 2 piano concertos which are equally amazing and on par with Liszt's of the same period, but hardly played here live).

Fav works from some of my least favourite composers:

*R. Strauss *-_ Metamorphosen _(finally he let the protective mask drop and expressed his own emotions, rather than do music to some 'program')
*Rued Langgaard *- _Music of the Spheres_, an innovative work amongst a pile of stuff that was out of date before it hit the page (his symphonies)
*Arvo Part *- I like most things I've heard he did before the early 1990's, after which he went into deep rehash mode - favs incl._ Berliner Messe, Tabula Rasa, Cantus in Memoriam B. Britten_


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

aleazk said:


> We want to demonstrate that not all is black or white in classical music: there are greys.
> So, pick the less appealing piece, to you, from your favorite composer and the most redeeming piece, to you, from your least favorite composer.
> I always hated Mozart, except for one piece, which is the first Mozart piece that I heard, the Requiem.
> From Ravel, sincerely, is very hard for me to find a piece of him that I don't like. Under pressure, I think I would pick the Bolero.
> ...


Te dejé comentarios sobre cada una de las piezas, tienes mucho talento. Felicitaciones.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Sid James said:


> I think there are many grey areas in music appreciation, and how my perception changes over time is the beauty of it.
> 
> Least favourite works from my favourite composers:
> 
> ...


I totally disagree.

But of course, Martin is awkward...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Answers to threads like these reveal how well you actually know the composer(s)' oeuvre, or that you think you know. _"I have always hated X, but loved one piece ... "_ :lol:

Least favourite pieces from favourite composers

(1) JS Bach organ chorales realised by him. Almost 200 of these pieces have survived, many were based on existing German themes, and had functional church uses. Today they are often recorded at the (solo) organ. Vast majority of these are not terribly exciting despite me having listened to nearly all that has survived by him today in the BWV. But if "performed" live with church goers in a church singing the chorales, that will most likely be a different and positive experience (assuming if any texts survived).

Least favourite composers writing enjoyable pieces

(1) ? difficult to single out because it simply gives the wrong impression. There are many pieces that were listenable by Stockhausen for example, during that one-off experience. Quite listenable indeed but I seldom wanted to revisit numerous times. I try to understand the composer's idiom and find that often helps to appreciate what (s)he was on about.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> Interesting thread. I think many people will be able to find enjoyable works from some composers they generally don't like. As aleazk stated it may be very hard for people to find unenjoyable works from their favorite composer.
> 
> I have struggled with Ligeti ever since I first heard his music. While aleazk doesn't like his Bagatelles for Wind Quintet, I quite like them.
> 
> My favorite composer is Mozart, and there is nothing I have ever heard by him that I do not like. I did see Cosi fan tutti recently and found myself unhappy enough with the plot that it detracted from my experience of the opera.


We are a particle-antiparticle pair, mmsbls!. For some reason, I think you will enjoy modern music quite soon. We will insist :devil:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> We are a particle-antiparticle pair, mmsbls!. For some reason, I think you will enjoy modern music quite soon. We will insist :devil:


Bah! "Modern music" is overrated...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> No, his music is trash. I only heard this shoddy guitar work of his that he never got around to actually performing with real instruments. I was excited about it too... I wonder if it has come to fruit yet.


The guitarists at my school are ****. No. They are worse than ****. Just be glad you can hear it played by an atrocious computer program.

Must say that I am not that much of a fan of this really short 30 second Big Turtle Fanfare that *Ligeti* wrote for solo trumpet. I'm only not that much of a fan of it because it's TOO BLOODY SHORT AND THERE IS NO PERCUSSION.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Works I don't like by composers I like:

Schumann - Genoveva is an opera. I like everything else by Schumann, but under pressure I'd say the _Album for the Young_ is my least favorite of his output.
Beethoven - Again, Fidelio is an opera. _Für Elise_ suffers from overplaying, otherwise it's quite an enjoyable piece. I'd have to say that the Moonlight is my least favorite piece of his.
Bach - Honestly, not a huge fan of his concertos.

Works I like by composers I don't generally like:

R. Strauss - As with Sid, I love his _Metamorphosen_, and not much else.
Brahms - Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 1 in B minor. 
Mozart - It's not so much that I don't like him, but I don't really care much for him either. However, I do love one of his piano sonatas, I don't remember which one off the top of my head. F major, I think?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The guitarists at my school are ****. No. They are worse than ****. Just be glad you can hear it played by an atrocious computer program.
> 
> Must say that I am not that much of a fan of this really short 30 second Big Turtle Fanfare that *Ligeti* wrote for solo trumpet. I'm only not that much of a fan of it because it's TOO BLOODY SHORT AND THERE IS NO PERCUSSION.


It was just a large disappointment on my behalf. I was expecting to be blasted away with genius! Instead I was blasted with genius ciphered through an atrocious computer program! Even if you have to play all the guitar lines yourself, make it happen!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The guitarists at my school are ****. No. They are worse than ****. Just be glad you can hear it played by an atrocious computer program.
> 
> Must say that I am not that much of a fan of this really short 30 second Big Turtle Fanfare that *Ligeti* wrote for solo trumpet. I'm only not that much of a fan of it because it's TOO BLOODY SHORT AND THERE IS NO PERCUSSION.


Also, are you meaning to tell me that the guitarists at your school are Elgar?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Also, are you meaning to tell me that the guitarists at your school are Elgar?


Close enough.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The guitarists at my school are ****. No. They are worse than ****. Just be glad you can hear it played by an atrocious computer program.
> 
> Must say that I am not that much of a fan of this really short 30 second Big Turtle Fanfare that *Ligeti* wrote for solo trumpet. I'm only not that much of a fan of it because it's TOO BLOODY SHORT AND THERE IS NO PERCUSSION.


haha, do you have that cd where the Fanfare is in the beginning?, you have those 30 seconds and then piano pieces, is very funny.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> haha, do you have that cd where the Fanfare is in the beginning?, you have those 30 seconds and then piano pieces, is very funny.


Yes I do.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

It's so hard for me to pick favorite composers. I really can't. But among the works that I cannot easily enjoy by composers that are among my favorites: 

Bach: The Well-Tempered Clavier
Bernstein: Chichester Psalms
Brahms: the Clarinet Sonatas
Dvorak: Stabat Mater (though this has been growing on me)
Enescu: Piano Trios
Fauré: solo piano works 
Golijov: Oceana
Ives: The Unanswered Question
Satié: Socrate
Verdi: Requiem

Favorite works of composers whose music I don't enjoy easily: 

Bruckner: Symphony #8 
R. Strauss: Horn and Oboe Concertos 
Szymanowski: Stabat Mater - which I absolutely love


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I like all composers equally.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I like all composers equally.


Except some more equally than others. Amirite?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Sid James- Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin (one of the most boring operas in the whole repertoire...except for the famous waltz...you were great, Pyotr Ilyich, a legend, but not in this one, methinks)

Blasphemer!! A marvelous opera!! oh... and by the way... we all know that you are cheating, Sid. You avoided your least favorite composer.

My favorite composers would include J.S. Bach... and I'd probably agree that the Coffee Cantata wasn't one of his finer moments. Mozart? Where to begin? There's a lot of mediocre stuff among his earlier work, but I'd probably go with the canons _Leck mich im Arsch_ and _Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schön sauber_. Beethoven...? I'd probably go with some early, immature works. Going with my favorite 20th century composer, Richard Strauss, I'll admit that _Die ägyptische Helena_ is comically bad with its all-seeing giant sea mollusk, convoluted plot, and inane behavior... such as the father who shrugs off the murder of his son by the deranged Menelaus.

I don't know that I have a single least favorite composer. Among those I really struggle with, I'd count Schoenberg... whose _Gurre-Lieder_ I very much like. Stockhausen? I quite like _Stimmung_. Xenakis? I quite like the percussion works, _Rebonds._


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> oh... and by the way... we all know that you are cheating, Sid. You avoided your least favorite composer....


Well if you mean Wagner, these I can 'handle' to whatever degree:
- Siegfried Idyll
- Tannhauser
- WEsendock Lieder



> ...Xenakis? I quite like the percussion works, _Rebonds._


I haven't heard that one but another percussion work 'Pleaides' was awesome. One of the best concerts I've been to. My review, which is not short but I tried to do it in depth, is here at http://www.talkclassical.com/6356-iannis-xenakis-3.html#post266159 thread.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

science said:


> It's so hard for me to pick favorite composers. I really can't. But among the works that I cannot easily enjoy by composers that are among my favorites:
> 
> ...Verdi: Requiem
> ...


Agreed, I find it kind of sprawling. But funnily enough I can handle another long requiem, that of Stanford, but it is more lyrical and less high octane.



> ...
> Favorite works of composers whose music I don't enjoy easily:
> 
> ...R. Strauss: Horn and Oboe Concertos
> ...


Similar here. I like the pared down feel of the oboe concerto, the accompaniment is actually a 'small orchestra' unusual I think for R. Strauss. But the horn concerti I've not heard for ages, and eventually want to get them, Barry Tuckwell has a recording out on Eloquence, Aussie reissue label.



Couchie said:


> I like all composers equally.


A nobe aspiration but is it possible. Like is it possible to like blondes and brunettes equally? When your gut feeling is 'I like one better than the other.'

So I just go by what my 'gut' tells me now.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

I can't really go the full superlative route and designate "leasts" and "mosts," but here's an approximation:

*Works I don't like by composers I do like:*
Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra
Beethoven: Symphony No. 3
Reich: Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices, and Organ

*Works I like by composers I don't like:*
Brahms: Symphony No. 3
Boulez: _Le marteau sans maître_
Mahler: Symphony No. 9


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

*Composers I like, works I don't like*
Messiaen - Cinq Rechants
Bartók - 44 Duos for Two Violins
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9
Strauss, R. - Sinfonia Domestica
Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde
Gubaidulina - Stimmen Verstummen
Wagner - Tannhäuser

*Composers I dislike, works I like:*
Stravinsky - Petrushka
Reich - The Desert Music
Brahms - Symphony No. 1
Debussy - Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un Faune

A bit lopsided, but there it is.


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## Rinaldino (Aug 2, 2012)

*Composers I don't like / works I like:*
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde
Mahler: 7th, 9th and Das Lied von der Erde.
CPE Bach: Cello concerto Wq 170

*Composers I like / works I don't like:*
Liszt: Piano Concerti
Bruckner: Symphony n. 6 (but maybe I'll start to like it)
Clementi: Piano concerto
Schumann: Papillons (I hated to play these)
Beethoven: Violin sonata except 5 (which is cute), 9 and 10 (which in my opinion is the only real masterwork B. left for the violin, let aside the concerto). I've always wandered why these were the only violin sonatas of his in the repertoire and now I know.

Am I the only one to really enjoy playing music from composers I don't really like (Debussy, Bartok, Prokofiev...)?


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

The greyest composer for me is probably Schumann. To me, his piano works, for which he is probably known best, are quite dispendible, being mostly melody-and-accompaniment mood pieces. Too romantic, too _fantastique_ for my taste. On the other hand, I absolutely adore his orchestral works, the symphonies as well as the concertos (of which, again, the piano concerto appeals to me the least).


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