# Not sure where to ask this ....



## DriverSeven (Dec 6, 2018)

I would like to start a discussion about editing the MP3 tags on CDs and I'm not sure where to post it.

I am imagine many members have dealt with this problem. When you acquire a new album, classical music tags are often terrible. For opera, sometimes the title for each scene includes the entire opera's name before the scene, which means you are not able to see the scene title on any playing device. But if you edit the tags to remove the repetitive text, you'll be able to see the correct scene name while listening on your iPad, iPhone or car.

And if the opera or symphone stretches over 2 or 3 CD's, iTunes will organize it into 2 or 3 separate albums, preventing you from playing it as a single uninterrupted work.

To correct this, I have been editing the MP3 tags in the software program Stamp ID3 and while it is adequate, it is very time-consuming. I would hope to start a discussion with others who may have other tips on the best software to use or other techniques. 

I have read reviews of MP3tags that claim its the best MP3 editor but of course, the review provides examples only of editing popular music and not the particular challenges of opera and symphonies.

I have searched a bit and I didn't find any existing discussion on the topic - maybe it was discussed months ago and I couldn't find it?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

https://www.talkclassical.com/42866-tagging.html?highlight=tagging

It's not really about product comparison, but about the subject overall. Most people I know find tagging classical to be an unavoidable PITA. My thoughts are included in the thread.

For the record, I tag with JRiver. which is multi-function media center. It's not free. I find it better than iTunes for tagging , but more important, I found far fewer ripping errors.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

I used Ex Falso for all my tagging.

https://quodlibet.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

I also use Quod Libet as my desktop computer music player, and Ex Falso is a companion to Quod Libet, but you can use Ex Falso independently too. My desktop is running Arch Linux, but apparently they have versions for Windows and Mac OSX too.

My process is this: I rip a CD to wav, with no tags, convert to FLAC, then tag everything manually using Ex Falso so I can get my tags exactly the way I want them. I have a system I use to make sure that everything is consistent across all of my files. It's a tremendous pain in the *** though. I started this whole process 13 years ago, and I'm still at it. I've never gotten to a point where everything is ripped and tagged, but I've also been acquiring a lot of new music in that time too.

Even when I download MP3s and stuff with tags in them already, I'll redo the tags to fit my system.

For classical works, I use a custom tag that I call "work" to organize whole pieces with several tracks or movements or what have you. So for example, for Beethoven's 3rd symphony, the "work" tag would be:

_Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 in E-flat Major, Op. 55, "Eroica"_

In Quod Libet, I can filter by "work", and choose which piece I want to listen to (although practically speaking, I'd usually filter by composer first, then work, otherwise there are too many "works" to scroll through). If I choose Beethoven's 3rd Symphony, for example, Quod Libet will serve up to me several different recordings to choose from. Quod Libet is extremely flexible in letting you choose how to search, filter, and display your music.

None of this works on my phone though, which is mostly how I listen to music these days (with Bluetooth Bose headphones). When I put music on my phone, I'll convert my FLAC files to ogg (to save space), and use a sensible folder structure to navigate to different recordings. I use Poweramp as a player for my phone. It's pretty good, but lacking a lot of the features I like in Quod Libet.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution for the issue of it all being so time consuming.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

If you insist on not following the established format for tagging classical music, you had better have a small library, because ripping will take a long time otherwise. My advice is to go with the flow and just correct blatant mistakes.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

See if this helps. 

https://help.apple.com/itc/musicstyleguide/en.lproj/static.html#itc8b23aed0e


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

^^^^ That's a good starting point. 

I think the OP is mostly concerned with track titles, which is relatively easy to stay consistent, but when it comes to the performer field(s), especially the orchestra names, it's a bigger problem, esp. if one wants to be able to *search* through a library. E.g.

Wiener Philharmoniker or Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra? (Different languages but both well known to the English-speaking community)

Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra or St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra? (Used at different times)

And this is my favourite - National Symphony Orchestra vs Taiwan Philharmonic (both *currently* in use! "National Symphony Orchestra" is used inside Taiwan and they don't add "of Taiwan". "Taiwan Philharmonic" is used outside Taiwan and there's no "Orchestra" stuck at the back.)

If one is adamant about tag consistency across albums, one might need to make additional rules of your own.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

At some point it becomes OCD though, and it's best to spend your time listening to the music rather than tagging it.


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## Guest (May 11, 2019)

I tend to just use the tagging capabilities in iTunes. At this point, I'll make some corrections when I rip. Otherwise, I only make changes if it annoys me. And you can merge multiple discs into one album in iTunes, for seamless listening.


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## DriverSeven (Dec 6, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I will follow up on all of these tips but it looks like others have been dealing with in the same way I have: hand-editing. I was hoping for ID tag tools that provided search-and-replace, I guess.

And yes, my main concern is track titles for opera. When the track is playing, there's no reason to have the composer and opera title displayed in the track field; it's redundant on playback devices and because the track title comes last, on most devices, it never appears at all.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DriverSeven said:


> Thanks for the replies. I will follow up on all of these tips but it looks like others have been dealing with in the same way I have: hand-editing. I was hoping for ID tag tools that provided search-and-replace, I guess.
> 
> And yes, my main concern is track titles for opera. When the track is playing, there's no reason to have the composer and opera title displayed in the track field; it's redundant on playback devices and because the track title comes last, on most devices, it never appears at all.


JRiver has a find and replace feature. I've never used it. It also has an expression language. So if all of the track titles for your recording of Carmen begin with Bizet Carmen, you could direct it to strip off the first 13 characters (including the spaces). This can be done for a group of tracks together. I have used that feature.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Expression_Language

You can also use the disc field to treat all of Carmen as a single album with three discs. I use that feature all the time.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't even know what tagging is but all my classical stays in their folders and plays fine.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A related and very useful program is a piece of freeware named Lupas Rename. This is a mass editor for filenames and folder names. It is very flexible and capable. It also has a nice track numbering facility.

You can find it here.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

bigshot said:


> At some point it becomes OCD though, and it's best to spend your time listening to the music rather than tagging it.


What if I'm listening to music _while_ I'm tagging it?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

For tagging, I mostly use Foobar2000. Relating back to the OP, you can load it up with however many files you like, select them all, and make mass changes easily. You can select subsets and change titles to (for instance) Act 2. Fast, easy, and lightweight. It also works very well for ripping and converting formats. Free, of course. But download only from the source site; some sites add unwanted stuff.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

So, what is the point of tagging the music?


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> So, what is the point of tagging the music?


Mainly so you can search and sort music on a computer or other digital device, and so that information about the music displays correctly.


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## DriverSeven (Dec 6, 2018)

KenOC said:


> For tagging, I mostly use Foobar2000. Relating back to the OP, you can load it up with however many files you like, select them all, and make mass changes easily. You can select subsets and change titles to (for instance) Act 2. Fast, easy, and lightweight. It also works very well for ripping and converting formats. Free, of course. But download only from the source site; some sites add unwanted stuff.


Foobar2000 is very interesting but the audio player doesn't support iOS or Android. Do you use it has your media player or just for editing?


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## DriverSeven (Dec 6, 2018)

And to illustrate the reason for editing, here are photos of the display on my car and iPad.

The first 2 photos show how Lucia de Lammermoor appears without editing; this is the Gracenote format as it was downloaded from iTunes.
















The next 3 photos show how Le Nozze de Figaro appears, after editing, so I have the ability to identify each track as I'm listening or if I want to select the track to play next.


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

I stopped tagging my music long ago. I don't fetch tags from databases as they're usually a mess and hand typing them is really tedious. 
I organize my music with just filenames and folders. So far i think it's adequate for my sorting habit.
And the structure is consistent on every device


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

rice said:


> I stopped tagging my music long ago. I don't fetch tags from databases as they're usually a mess and hand typing them is really tedious.
> *I organize my music with just filenames and folders. So far i think it's adequate for my sorting habit.
> And the structure is consistent on every device*


My method, and nice and simple. Tagging has its uses but it is beyond my needs.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DriverSeven said:


> And to illustrate the reason for editing, here are photos of the display on my car and iPad.
> 
> The first 2 photos show how Lucia de Lammermoor appears without editing; this is the Gracenote format as it was downloaded from iTunes.
> 
> ...


Here's what I would do using JRiver. I would select all the Figaro tracks beginning with "Mozart: Le Nozze di Figaro ", click on Tag, and using the Tag window, replace the text in the name field (which will be [Varies]) with:

=removeleft([name], 27) - don't forget the blank space after Figaro.

[name] is a variable referencing whatever's in the field now. The function would strip the first 27 characters leaving only the name of the track.

(But before doing that I would test it on one track to make sure I got the syntax correct.)

Edit - to be clear you only need to do this once. The appropriate change will occur in all the tracks. Assume for instance that:

the first track is Mozart: Le Nozze di Figaro Overture
the second track is Mozart: Le Nozze di Figaro Cinque... dieci... venti... trenta

After entering =removeleft([name], 27):

the first track will be Overture
the second track will be Cinque... dieci... venti... trenta


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## DriverSeven (Dec 6, 2018)

JRiver sounds like a better tag editor than ID Stamp and I am no great fan of iTunes as a media player.

But I don't think JRiver has apps for iOS, does it? 

Would it make sense to use JRiver just to edit the MP3 files before importing into iTunes?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DriverSeven said:


> JRiver sounds like a better tag editor than ID Stamp and I am no great fan of iTunes as a media player.
> 
> But I don't think JRiver has apps for iOS, does it?
> 
> Would it make sense to use JRiver just to edit the MP3 files before importing into iTunes?


That's what I do, because I generally convert my FLAC/DSD/ALAC files to AAC files for my phone. But there are other options. And you need an alternative if you want to play FLAC or DSD files on your iPhone. I use the Onkyo iOS player for that, an early entry that I have not bothered to replace.*

By the way, JRiver can pretty much convert any format into any format. Of course, if for some reason you want to convert a Lossy format into a Lossless format, it can't recover the lost information.

Remember, JRiver isn't free. I just checked and a new purchase is $60. And its features can overwhelm you, especially as the documentation (in Wiki form) is lousy. But the JRiver Forum is active and you'll generally get your questions answered.

They have a 30 day trial version. so try it and see if it's for you.

*I know that to get hi-rez out of an iPhone you need an external DAC.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I use a freeware program called, conveniently and logically, Mp3tag. 

I often search for performances by a particular performer, so proper tagging is essential.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Ex Falso is great, if all you're interested in is tagging and renaming files. And it's free.

https://quodlibet.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guide/commands/exfalso.html

It will not convert between file types though. You'd need other software to do that.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

apricissimus said:


> Ex Falso is great, if all you're interested in is tagging and renaming files. And it's free.
> 
> https://quodlibet.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guide/commands/exfalso.html
> 
> *It will not convert between file types though. You'd need other software to do that*.


I got a little program off my Linux software center. It is called *SoundConverter* and works great for me. I mainly use it to downsize downloaded files as I normally listen at 128 kbps vbr, which is fine for my ears. It also cleans up filenames if there are strange characters in it (i have some that had symbols inserted in the file name and it got rid of them) by checking the box "Replace Messy Characters."


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I got a little program off my Linux software center. It is called *SoundConverter* and works great for me. I mainly use it to downsize downloaded files as I normally listen at 128 kbps vbr, which is fine for my ears. It also cleans up filenames if there are strange characters in it (i have some that had symbols inserted in the file name and it got rid of them) by checking the box "Replace Messy Characters."


Ex Falso has options to strip odd characters and diacritical marks from filenames as well.

For encoding, I use cdparanoia for ripping, good ol' "flac" from the command line for converting to FLAC, and oggenc for converting from flac to ogg when I want to save space when putting files on my phone. (Actually, I have a couple of very simple python scripts that automate some of this process, using those tools.)


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I still use Tag&Rename. Its not perfect but it works for my retaggi g purposes. I only retag mp3 stuff for the car USB . Cant be bothered with Lossless.


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