# Bach Christmas Oratorio



## DavidA

As it's nearing Christmas, what recordings of Bach's wonderful Christmas Oratorio would you recommend for your Christmas stocking?


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## Bulldog

Gardiner - English Baroque Soloists (Archiv Produktion) for its blend of exuberance and drama.


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## Nocture In Blue

Karl Richter








Helmuth Rilling


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## JSBach85

At the time I only own Veldhoven / The Netherlands Bach Society with an excellent vocal cast:









But I am also interested in Dunedin Consort recording, hopefully someone can give me an opinion. For this oratorio I rather prefer OVPP choirs.


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## Pugg

​
Bach, J S: Christmas Oratorio, BWV248.

Helen Donath (soprano), Marjana Lipovsek (contralto), Eberhard Büchner (tenor), Peter Schreier (tenor), Robert Holl (bass), Andrea Ihle (soprano)

Rundfunkchor Leipzig, Trumpet Ensemble Ludwig Guttler, Staatskapelle Dresden.
Not HIP but wonderful singing.


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## Animal the Drummer

Years ago I bought the Gardiner version but I'm afraid I ended up giving it away. It has all the technical grip and polish in the world, but in it I hear none of the joy that's so central to this piece and to the time of year for which it was written. I replaced it with the venerable old Decca recording from Karl Münchinger and his Stuttgart forces and still listen to that with great pleasure today.


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## wkasimer

I've always liked this one, conducted by Ralf Otto. Lots of energy, excellent soloists:


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## Josquin13

I was disappointed with Harnoncourt's final recording of the Christmas Oratorio, for Deutsche Harmonia Mundi, which oddly enough, received a monthly plaudit from Gramophone. I didn't like Harnoncourt's rhythmic quirkiness and (usual) exaggerations, and occasional willfulness, and regretted buying it. However, I do like Harnoncourt's earlier 1st recording for Teldec, which is one of my favorite period recordings of this music.

I also dislike the recent HIPster tendency to adopt extremely brisk tempi, particularly at the opening of the first cantata--which is one of my favorite movements in all of Bach. The Dunedin Consort are ridiculously fast here, for example--which was disappointing after such a fine Mass in B minor from them.

However, among these brisk recordings, surprisingly, I do like Jos Van Veldhoven's performance on Channel Classics. I especially appreciated how Veldhoven so sensibly chose to go OVPP for greater choral clarity in certain parts, except where he felt the music needed extra ripieno singers for added heft. It all worked for me, and the recorded sound is first class (from Channel Classics).

Among modern instrument recordings, I find Peter Schreier's Dresden Staatskapelle version to be stylistically more alert than others I've heard. He has the wonderful Ludwig Güttler & co. on trumpet, which is a major plus in this music. Some listeners may not respond favorably to Schreier taking the part of the Evangelist himself (that is, somewhat late in his career), but his voice and singing didn't bother me. Although I will say that I prefer tenor Fritz Wunderlich in Karl Richter's 2nd recording of the Oratorio.

Speaking of singers, it's also worth hearing sopranos Elly Ameling on Münchinger's recording, Arleen Auger on Rilling's, and Gundula Janowitz for Richter--though, as I said, I prefer Schreier's conducting overall.

The following is a good overview of Christmas Oratorio recordings by one of Gramophone's critics (written before the Dunedin's came out). The reviewer, Jonathan-Freeman Atwood, covers most of the better known recordings, astutely, in my view, although I don't ultimately agree with his final choices. He does, however, pin down why certain conductors should be avoided in this work I think, such as Herreweghe:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/bachs-christmas-oratorio-–-which-recording-is-best

On You Tube, here's a film of Harnoncourt's live 1980s performance (his second go at the work, of three), which I also like:






Though personally, I'd most recommend Peter Schreier's recording on Phillips.


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## Ariasexta

It is true that the latest Harnoncourts version is trying to mozartify Bach, which is very horrible for the choir, but still the cantatas are OK to me. I remember that I was a bit angry when I first time listened to Harnoncourts opening Choral "Jauchzet, frohlocket" ,, this performance is really annoying, as if being sung by occasional crowd in a supermarket, the voices are uneven and uncouth, the choir is vulgar for Bach. I am considering Philip Pickett`s version from Decca, I do not have yet, but I am sure, it is good.


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## DavidA

Ariasexta said:


> *It is true that the latest Harnoncourts version is trying to mozartify Bach,* which is also very horrible for the choir, but still the cantatas are fine to me. Andrew King version could be better than both Gardiner and Harnoncourt but I do not have this copy for now.


Pardon? I have it and can't see what people are driving at. Seems a fine version to me. I also have Suzuki and Jacobs to compare but Harnoncourt would be my first choice


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## Ariasexta

DavidA said:


> Pardon? I have it and can't see what people are driving at. Seems a fine version to me. I also have Suzuki and Jacobs to compare but Harnoncourt would be my first choice


The cantatas are OK,but the choir is very horrible, which made me cringe. I am used to Leonhardt`s and Herreweghe`s choirs, and Harnoncourts early choirs in collaboration with Leonhardt are also very good too, but the one from 2007 is not so pleasant to me.


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## Star

Jacobs is pretty good. Radical but never dull


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Personal favourites: Dunedin Consort/Butt, Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment/Layton (a real gem) and Netherlands Bach Society/Veldhoven. Jacobs and Herreweghe's recordings are excellent, too. If you want a "big band" sound, Chailly is great, albeit some of his tempi are a bit on the fast side.


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## Azol

This is the one I will be watching this Christmas. Easier for my wife and kid to get into - with some visual aid.


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## Scott in PA

I have the Jacobs, because Andreas Scholl is the alto soloist, and any Bach that Scholl does is a must have. The entire performance is really good, too!


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## Marc

I can't really mention one or two favourites.
The recordings that I've listened the most to (probably), are Fritz Werner, Michel Corboz, Ralf Otto and Ton Koopman.
Funny, 3 of them were issued by Erato!


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## bravenewworld

*Just an unrelated question about the Christmas Oratorio*

On a slightly unrelated note... I must confess I haven't heard the oratorio. However, I have heard _Jauchzet, frohlocket _ from the work and find it really good. I unfortunately don't really have time to hear and _appreciate_ the whole thing... my time is divided between the Met Opera Streaming Service and study (and in that order, at this time of the year). What are some special pieces are within the work, so I can get a sneak peak before Christmas?


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## Pugg

bravenewworld said:


> On a slightly unrelated note... I must confess I haven't heard the oratorio. However, I have heard _Jauchzet, frohlocket _ from the work and find it really good. I unfortunately don't really have time to hear and _appreciate_ the whole thing... my time is divided between the Met Opera Streaming Service and study (and in that order, at this time of the year). What are some special pieces are within the work, so I can get a sneak peak before Christmas?


On this site you can get samples , hope it helps.
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7976510--bach-j-s-christmas-oratorio-bwv248


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## SenaJurinac

Here's something interesting - Christmas Oratorio in ballet version, by Hamburg State Opera:

http://klassikundopern.web.tv/video/bach-weihnachtsoratoriumchristmas-oratorio-ballett-oratorio-de-nol-i-iii-hamburg-2015__nqnadualxtc

http://klassikundopern.web.tv/video/bach-weihnachtsoratoriumchristmas-oratorio-ballett-oratorio-de-nol-iv-vi-hamburg-2015__u2tetybajym

And some moret "orthodox" recordings...

Bach Ensemble Helmuth Rilling,performing in the Tchaikovsky Concert Hall, Moscow (2016):

http://klassikundopern.web.tv/video/helmuth-rilling-dirigiert-bach-weihnachtsoratorium-bwv-248-kantate-iiv-moscow-2016__wi0eli8t7xi

And Peter Dijkstra with the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin and Bavarian Radio Choir, recorded in Munich in 2010:

http://klassikundopern.web.tv/video/peter-dijkstra-dirigiert-bach-weihnachtsoratoriumchristmas-oratorio-bwv-248-kantaten-iiii__vf6mf7gvnkc

http://klassikundopern.web.tv/video/peter-dijkstra-dirigiert-bach-weihnachtsoratoriumchristmas-oratorio-bwv-248-kantaten-ivvi__ywx4jemhqx2


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## Marc

bravenewworld said:


> On a slightly unrelated note... I must confess I haven't heard the oratorio. However, I have heard _Jauchzet, frohlocket _ from the work and find it really good. I unfortunately don't really have time to hear and _appreciate_ the whole thing... my time is divided between the Met Opera Streaming Service and study (and in that order, at this time of the year). What are some special pieces are within the work, so I can get a sneak peak before Christmas?


Never ask Bach lovers to make a choice.
If you'd ask for instance: please name some special Bach works, they would probably answer: BWV 1-1128. 

Anyway: the Sinfonia intro to the 2nd cantata is a 'common' favourite piece.






To many, the most popular aria is "Schlafe, mein Liebster, genieße der Ruh'".






And personally, I love this Terzetto:






But of course, being a Bach lover, my actual answer to your question is: BWV 248/1 up to and including BWV 248/6.

Merry Christmas!


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## premont

Marc said:


> Never ask Bach lovers to make a choice.
> If you'd ask for instance: please name some special Bach works, they would probably answer: BWV 1-1128.


Yes, you are right,


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## andreas chenier

I would recommend the recording of Richter, Janowitz, Wunderlich and Crass + more. Funny, i just heard the piece in a small church in the small norwegian town called "Lillehammer". It just proves that J.S. Bach's music is still as alive today as it once was.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Thread bump, because...well, it’s that time of year.

I’ve been seriously listening to the Oratorio lately for really the first time, and though it’s not among my favorite Bach choral works it is undoubtedly impressive and full of little gems with a complex but brilliant dramatic structure. I listened to the second Harnoncourt first because the Gramophone folks spoke so highly of it, but like the vast majority of Harny’s recordings I find it to be artificial, grotesquely mannered, and dull, borderline unlistenable with awful, anemic-sounding instruments. His second St. Matthew Passion is the only recording of his that I’ve heard that I can honestly describe with a more positive adjective than “unremarkable." Jacobs is undoubtedly an exciting and dramatic recording with great singing but a little “overmilked” for me, like he’s trying to make it sound “fresh” rather than respecting the music. Gardiner is Gardiner - precise, controlled, and theatrical with little sympathy for the poetry and nuance of the music. 

With every single Richter/Bach recording I’ve heard, my reaction is the same - I can’t stand the huge, shouty choruses and inflexible tempi, but I love his soloists. Surely any recording with Christa Ludwig, Fritz Wunderlich, Franz Crass, and Gundula Janowitz together is not going to be bad. But overall I am still confounded by the enthusiastic recommendations for his recordings. Among modern-instrument recordings I’ve sampled so far I much prefer the Schreier. Warm and natural with good pacing. 

Any others I should hear?


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## Handelian

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Thread bump, because...well, it's that time of year.
> 
> I've been seriously listening to the Oratorio lately for really the first time, and though it's not among my favorite Bach choral works it is undoubtedly impressive and full of little gems with a complex but brilliant dramatic structure. I listened to the second Harnoncourt first because the Gramophone folks spoke so highly of it, but like the vast majority of Harny's recordings I find it to be artificial, grotesquely mannered, and dull, borderline unlistenable with awful, anemic-sounding instruments. His second St. Matthew Passion is the only recording of his that I've heard that I can honestly describe with a more positive adjective than "unremarkable." Jacobs is undoubtedly an exciting and dramatic recording with great singing but a little "overmilked" for me, like he's trying to make it sound "fresh" rather than respecting the music. Gardiner is Gardiner - precise, controlled, and theatrical with little sympathy for the poetry and nuance of the music.
> 
> With every single Richter/Bach recording I've heard, my reaction is the same - I can't stand the huge, shouty choruses and inflexible tempi, but I love his soloists. Surely any recording with Christa Ludwig, Fritz Wunderlich, Franz Crass, and Gundula Janowitz together is not going to be bad. But overall I am still confounded by the enthusiastic recommendations for his recordings. Among modern-instrument recordings I've sampled so far I much prefer the Schreier. Warm and natural with good pacing.
> 
> Any others I should hear?


Sorry that you seem to have run out of options on the Christmas oratorio both old and new.
I have the Harnoncourt, Jacobs and Gardiner and find them all enjoyable. I find your description of the Harnoncourt totally unreal . Sorry you don't enjoy them anyway. 
One you might try which I have and enjoy is the Suzuki.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Thread bump, because...well, it's that time of year.
> 
> I've been seriously listening to the Oratorio lately for really the first time, and though it's not among my favorite Bach choral works it is undoubtedly impressive and full of little gems with a complex but brilliant dramatic structure. I listened to the second Harnoncourt first because the Gramophone folks spoke so highly of it, but like the vast majority of Harny's recordings I find it to be artificial, grotesquely mannered, and dull, borderline unlistenable with awful, anemic-sounding instruments. His second St. Matthew Passion is the only recording of his that I've heard that I can honestly describe with a more positive adjective than "unremarkable." Jacobs is undoubtedly an exciting and dramatic recording with great singing but a little "overmilked" for me, like he's trying to make it sound "fresh" rather than respecting the music. Gardiner is Gardiner - precise, controlled, and theatrical with little sympathy for the poetry and nuance of the music.
> 
> With every single Richter/Bach recording I've heard, my reaction is the same - I can't stand the huge, shouty choruses and inflexible tempi, but I love his soloists. Surely any recording with Christa Ludwig, Fritz Wunderlich, Franz Crass, and Gundula Janowitz together is not going to be bad. But overall I am still confounded by the enthusiastic recommendations for his recordings. Among modern-instrument recordings I've sampled so far I much prefer the Schreier. Warm and natural with good pacing.
> 
> Any others I should hear?


Two fairly recent recordings that impressed me were Jos van Veldhoven/Netherlands Bach Society (Challenge Classics) and Stephen Layton/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (Hyperion). Beautiful performances in stunning sound.


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## wkasimer

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Any others I should hear?


You might want to try this one:


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## mparta

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Thread bump, because...well, it's that time of year.
> 
> I've been seriously listening to the Oratorio lately for really the first time, and though it's not among my favorite Bach choral works it is undoubtedly impressive and full of little gems with a complex but brilliant dramatic structure. I listened to the second Harnoncourt first because the Gramophone folks spoke so highly of it, but like the vast majority of Harny's recordings I find it to be artificial, grotesquely mannered, and dull, borderline unlistenable with awful, anemic-sounding instruments. His second St. Matthew Passion is the only recording of his that I've heard that I can honestly describe with a more positive adjective than "unremarkable." Jacobs is undoubtedly an exciting and dramatic recording with great singing but a little "overmilked" for me, like he's trying to make it sound "fresh" rather than respecting the music. Gardiner is Gardiner - precise, controlled, and theatrical with little sympathy for the poetry and nuance of the music.
> 
> With every single Richter/Bach recording I've heard, my reaction is the same - I can't stand the huge, shouty choruses and inflexible tempi, but I love his soloists. Surely any recording with Christa Ludwig, Fritz Wunderlich, Franz Crass, and Gundula Janowitz together is not going to be bad. But overall I am still confounded by the enthusiastic recommendations for his recordings. Among modern-instrument recordings I've sampled so far I much prefer the Schreier. Warm and natural with good pacing.
> 
> Any others I should hear?


I have the same reaction to the piece, but I heard it last year in Leipzig at the Thomaskirche and now I have a thing for it even if I don't find it as much to my taste as other works.
Herreweghe is my Bach performer, I find almost everything he does superior to old (Harnoncourt) or new (Gardiner and Suzuki and Koopman-- kept my Suzuki cantatas on the computer, kept the Gardiner box but gave away the hard copy Suzuki and Koopman, not worth the space)
But in the Christmas oratorio, I found the Herreweghe lacking.

But your comment about the Richter, I am fairly indifferent to him, not something I seek, but.....I am completely addicted to Gundula Janowitz in Floesst, Mein Heiland... Oh, listening right now, this is over the top lovely! No one should miss it for any other consideration, it alone is worth the listen.


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## Guest

Handelian said:


> Sorry that you seem to have run out of options on the Christmas oratorio both old and new.
> I have the Harnoncourt, Jacobs and Gardiner and find them all enjoyable. I find your description of the Harnoncourt totally unreal . Sorry you don't enjoy them anyway.
> One you might try which I have and enjoy is the Suzuki.


Harnoncourt can certainly be idiosyncratic; I agree with that proposition. But I find his interpretations never less than profoundly musical and eminently listenable. I have heard a whole range of recordings from NH - from operas in Theater an der Wien - to live Bach and Beethoven. His recordings with Chamber Orchestra of Europe for Beethoven are wonderful. And, of course, Concentus Musicus is an estimable ensemble. But, as with all things pertaining to taste, it's entirely subjective. I do note Harnoncourt's ideas have evolved from some of those very early recordings with Concentus. Having read two of his books I can see where he was coming from.


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## eljr




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## Rogerx

I love this one.


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## Animal the Drummer

Yes, I'm fond of that one too, possibly the most straightforwardly joyous version I know.


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