# Who listens to Opera in the 21st Century?



## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

Just out of interest. Would you think Opera is more often enjoyed by:

1) - The Nobility

2) - The Gentry

3) - The Upper-Classes

4) - Middle Classes and "Nouveau Riches"

5) - Other [Explain...]

And would you say that musical taste has to do with education or social class? Justify...


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Lord Roberts said:


> Just out of interest. Would you think Opera is more often enjoyed by:
> 
> 1) - The Nobility
> 
> ...


Seeing as we're talking about *enjoyment* rather than access, then I believe it transcends such social boundaries. People with more money may be more likely to _see_ opera, but it doesn't give them any greater appreciation or enjoyment. In fact, such people are more likely to attend concerts and opera for the sake of maintaining a false social status, while others go purely for the love of the music.


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

Polednice, what triggers people's love for classical music and Opera in your opinion?


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

If it's a genuine love for classical music and opera, rather than some kind of cultural inheritance, then I would imagine that the purpose for listening to it is far too personal for me to speculate on. My own trigger was when I went through some rather tough emotional times in my adolescence, and such music was the only true, pure solace that I could find. Since then, it has grown with me and helped me understand humanity - I know that, so long as I stay with it, I will continue to learn from it throughout my whole life.


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

I think my interest was recently triggered during a ball when i heard the most divine Waltzes that come to mind.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

The real question, then, is _why_ did you think the waltzes were divine (or any other adjective)? What exactly impressed you about them?


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## tenor02 (Jan 4, 2008)

im actually just now beginning to love opera, and i have to blame it on maturity. when i was younger it was hard for me to sit in the opera for hours, and listen to people sing...even when i couldnt understand them (the vibrato just killed it for me). 

i can actually remember one particular performance of Madame butterfly that i LOATHED...lol.

but now; my ear has matured and i know what to listen for, the vibrato is just a sign of freedom, and i'm able to digest the entire spectacle of an opera. 

i think a lot of the reason why opera has fallen "out" of popular media is because of pure ignorance on the publics part. they dont realize what the craft is. Anyway; right now im loving the recording of Nixon in China on Naxos


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Well in the Netherlands there are no longer official nobility or gentry (not even sure what the latter means). But in general the opera is attended by upper class though I think this is mostly due to the expensive tickets. I am not aware of any statistics concerning class division of record sales, but I am inclined to agree with Polednice that enjoyment transcends class. It may however have a correlation with education, and the wealthy tend to be better educated.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

I suppose my opinion is similar with Polednice's.
When it comes to listening, all social classes listen to it, and even education doesn't have too much influence. 
When it comes to attending concert halls, having money and "being seen" plays a role - even people can afford it, bit don't care for showing off, might decide to spend it other way, and enjoy CDs at home.


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

Polednice said:


> The real question, then, is _why_ did you think the waltzes were divine (or any other adjective)? What exactly impressed you about them?


I really don't know, i think it is this romantic idea which appears when you dance. Its not like dancing to rock and roll, there's this respectful elegance which is omnipresent even if you dance very close to the other person...



emiellucifuge said:


> Well in the Netherlands there are no longer official nobility or gentry (not even sure what the latter means). But in general the opera is attended by upper class though I think this is mostly due to the expensive tickets. I am not aware of any statistics concerning class division of record sales, but I am inclined to agree with Polednice that enjoyment transcends class. It may however have a correlation with education, and the wealthy tend to be better educated.


No nobility in the Netherlands? Hold on a minute! You have a lot of nobles, first of all you have your wonderful Queen Beatrix and then you have a multitude of Noble Aristocrats and Gentlemen.


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## Vic (Sep 2, 2009)

I think it is rather patronizing to assume that class is not important. Surely, people from a high educational background (which is associated with being of higher social status) are more likely to be exposed to classical music. They are therefore more likely to 'make it their own'.
If you can't afford going to a ball, you won't hear any 'devine' waltzes unless you actively go out and have a listen.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Why would it be 'patronising' to suggest that class is _not_ important? Who does that patronise?

Anyway, while it is true that more educated (and therefore more wealthy) people will have greater access to _social functions_, that does not exclude others. All you need is a teenager unsure of their music taste who happens to flick through some radio stations and is astonished by Radio 3 or - somewhat more tragically! - Classic FM.


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## Vic (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it is far less likely. Similar to the fact that fewer state school kids apply to Oxford, fewer state school kids listen to Classical Music. It is just not promoted enough, you see. 
Maybe patronising isn't the right word. I just think it is not fair to assume that it is just as EASY for someone of a lower social status to access Classical Music. If one doesn't grow up with it, it's harder to get into. It is therefore much EASIER for someone of higher social status. That's what I meant with patronising- it would be patronising to say: why don't you listen to Classical Music- just switch on Radio 3! It's your fault you don't get what Classical is about, not societies.
I'm not saying this is what you said by the way. I just think one should be aware of it.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I agree with what you said about it being harder for the lower classes. We just came at the question from two different angles (the thread kind of contains two ideas - 'Who listens to it more?' and 'Who enjoys it more?'). What I meant was that, of all the people who listen to such music, class has no importance on how much you _enjoy_ it, though it will affect whether or not you start to listen to it in the first place.


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## Vic (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree!


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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Who listens to Opera in the 21st Century?

Academics and rich people.

Who enjoys Opera in the 21st Century?

Academics.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Who listens to Opera in the 21st Century?
> 
> Academics and rich people.
> 
> ...


I'm not rich and I quit school when I was 16.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

ah sorry my mistake. we do have nobility i just do not agree with the concept


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

Now the question is where do you see yourself socially? I see myself as moneyless Upper Class Gentry.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Born-and-bred Northern working class


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Lord Roberts said:


> Now the question is where do you see yourself socially? I see myself as moneyless Upper Class Gentry.


I see you are more insterested in talking about your place in society than music itself. This thread seem to consider opera, but I see "let's comfort each other that we are cool and sophisciated" between the lines. I doubt you really belong to high society and are real gentleman. I rather smell a poseur. Is there a guy like one in your avatar at other side of the cable, or maybe some geezer with low self-esteem, who want to think of himself as a "lord"? All about you is filled with pretentiousness and stinks for miles with it. Nobility? Upper class? Today only few people can honestly claim to be part of these, so it's less than unlikely that we have a honour to met one of them here, on this board.

Well, seem like I've gone quite far in my conclusions. Therefore let me justify myself, this is mainly directed *to the moderators*, which probably are about to remove the post or something: my post is completely clear of malice etc., and if I did ment to attack someone, that's just because I'm totally right. More - I belive that we don't deal with real person, rather someone who's actually acting (maybe before himself too) and playing a lord on the web. Therefore no matter how vicious my post can sound, it didin't insult anyone... real.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aramis said:


> I'm not rich and I quit school when I was 16.


Something similar here.

BTW - one of the most annoying things that usually happen when you say to someone that you like classical music (including opera) is that they always ask, "do you like other music as well?" It's as though they want to give you a chance to redeem yourself and prove that you're normal after all. When I say that I like, say, Joni Mitchell or Led Zeppelin they never ask if I like classical music as well.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Aramis said:


> I see you are more insterested in talking about your place in society than music itself. This thread seem to consider opera, but I see "let's comfort each other that we are cool and sophisciated" between the lines. I doubt you really belong to high society and are real gentleman. I rather smell a poseur.


true, even from his list in first post in this thread you can see what it's all about...

Sarcastically speaking: many classical listeners do it for that reason - oh, my, I'm listening to classical music, I must be smart and noble and... special! Mom was right - I am special! (sorry for a bit of sarcasm).

In my high school (state school, like all schools in Serbia) the only thing our teacher did in class was playing classical music. He might talk for a minute or two, usually just naming what's next on repertoire, who the composer was, and then played it. In the beginning I hated it, but then music started to appeal to me, and before you know it I was visiting music shop for classical music. But I had great teacher in primary school too, but she did not make me listen to classics - I guess I was too young back then... So we all had a chance, even an obligation in school, to listen to classical music. Some people used the chance, some didn't.

The only correlation between classics and eduction might be that classical music requires attention, and people who lack attention at listening will likely lack attention in studying. I don't see any other relationship.

I think that debate about social classes depends a lot from the country we are from. If I understood correctly, Germany doesn't have private higher education (at least not any worth mentioning), while in UK private ones are usually most valued ones. That alone probably makes a lot of differences, while here in Eastern Europe it is like whole other planet compared to Western Europe. Talking about social classes in Northern Europe must also be whole other thing... Simply said, we would have to think of a lot of other things other than music, if we were to answer to the question about social classes and music.

But still, for wealthy people, concerts of classical music are too often occasions to "see and be seen". For me, it might be a chance to "treat" myself from time to time.


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

I am not claiming nobility, my username is inspired from Lord Roberts, a famous victorian Field Marshal. This "see and be seen" concept does not exist in my country where Opera is only attended by very Philistine people dressed in shorts and t-shirt. And those who do wear a suit or a sports coat (blazer) don't even wear a tie... Performances and dragged into the dirt by artists who believe in making a more "orginal" version of Don Giovani, but To hell with them! I don't go to the Opera to watch a gang of turtles wearing Mickey Mouse masks!


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Do you think there's something wrong with not wearing a tie at a concert - or, God forbid - wearing shorts and a t-shirt? I think it's a good sign of the music's accessibility...


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

@Lord Roberts
about "seeing and being seen" - I was just describing what it's like in my country, and even said that it varies a lot from one country to another.
but from the very first post in this topic, while asking about people listening to opera, you've divided them by class, and then you have wonderful queen of the Netherlands on one side and Philistine people on the other (not saying that queen is not great and all). It does not take a Sherlock to figure out what is going on...
Regarding this post - I wasn't sure whether I should press "post" button or not, since there is too much futile discussions on the net, but my experience says that from time to time, when post is written in good faith, it may serve a purpose. I hope this might serve it's purpose too.
Best regards


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## willgardner1 (Jan 22, 2010)

i'm doing a dissertation on classical music's playing in society today. if you have a bit of free time to take some interesting questions then visit this link

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/music-youth


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## Bluebonnet (Jan 11, 2010)

I have never thought of classical music and opera in terms of social classes. I believe appreciation of classical music and voice often depends on whether you were exposed to it as a child. When I was growing up here in the U.S., my school had field trips to the local symphony hall, and we had mandatory music classes. We all had to sing, and we all had to participate in stage performances in our tiny school auditorium. (It didn't do me much good in terms of voice development; I still can't sing, lol, and the only song I remember from those long-ago classes is the cowboy song "The Streets of Laredo.")

Schools today tend to concentrate on math and sciences, in order to help young people become "competitive in the global marketplace," as the mantra goes. I saw that coming during the Cold War years, starting when the Russians sent up the Sputnik satellite. In addition to our school's music classes, we also had the atomic bomb drills: crouch down and cover your head (like that would help). Anyway my point is that in today's world, fewer young people are growing up with an appreciation of classical music because the schools are cutting music out of the curriculum.

For me, opera was an acquired taste. It took me a long time to get past the artificiality of it and learn to truly love the beauty of the trained human voice. Today, I enjoy art song recitals as much as operas, just because of the wonderful voices. I feel that this appreciation developed independently of my social class. It was just a personal thing.

It's true that opera tickets are expensive; it's also expensive to travel to see operas if there are not many performances available where you live. Those financial barriers may limit the audience in the opera house to people in the higher economic brackets. Fortunately I have been able to see a few performances, but most of my exposure to opera and lieder comes from recordings and TV/radio broadcasts. The Internet is making opera and recitals more available to me too; for example, YouTube is turning out to be a great resource.


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## Lord Roberts (Jan 20, 2010)

Well, YouTube isn't an ideal tool in my opinion. You won't find a single decent recording of "La Donna e Mobile", that's an example amongst many.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

When I was checking for the last time there was performance by Pavarotti and it is more than decent.





 - this one

There is also my performance with alternative lyrics - 



 - but it is another story.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Lord Roberts said:


> Well, YouTube isn't an ideal tool in my opinion. You won't find a single decent recording of "La Donna e Mobile", that's an example amongst many.


YouTube doesn't aim to provide 'decent recordings'. The point of it is that people can access things like opera for free and then, if they're moved by it, they can get a good recording elsewhere. It's the access that's important, not the sound quality.


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## Bluebonnet (Jan 11, 2010)

YouTube can also introduce you to new young singers who are using YT for publicity.


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## OperaSaz (Feb 12, 2010)

I do think that anyone can love opera or at least enjoy it a little, if they give it a chance. I resisted it when I was younger as it was not "cool", but as I hit my 20's I was willing to give it more of a chance and saw it as less "snobby". I saw my first performance when I was away travelling and was then hooked. i think exposure is key.

-----------
Opera rules my world


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

I do.

Anyone can enjoy it if they try.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Polednice said:


> If it's a genuine love for classical music and opera, rather than some kind of cultural inheritance, then I would imagine that the purpose for listening to it is far too personal for me to speculate on. My own trigger was when I went through some rather tough emotional times in my adolescence, and such music was the only true, pure solace that I could find. Since then, it has grown with me and helped me understand humanity - I know that, so long as I stay with it, I will continue to learn from it throughout my whole life.


I've been a big pop/rock (and the rest of it) fan since the mid seventees when I was 13 or 14 years old. In the mid-80's (post MTV) I became very disappointed with most of the music that was around at the time. It just didn't do for me what the stuff from the 60's or 70's did. So my intitial exploration of classical music grew more or less out of frustration with the popular music that was around at the time.

I guess I was lucky that the first cd's I bought (late 80's? - something like that) were 'the right ones' in that they contained music that was accessible enough for a newcomer, because I bought them more or less blindly - not knowing what the music I had just bought would sound like. They included things like the Mutter/Karajan recording of the Mozart violin concertos No.3 & 5, Levine's recording of Saent-Saens organ symphony, a Naxos "best of baroque" compilation, and one or two others. I immediately loved what I was hearing. It wasn't the struggle I had expected it would be to learn to appreciate this music. I was sold on it instantly.

My love for opera followed very quickly - within a few months. Again I was lucky that the first ones I bought were very accessible. The first one was only 'semi-operatic' actually. I bought the recording of Bernstein's "West Side Story" with Kiri Te Kanawa and José Carreras after seeing a "the making of' documentary on television. The next two were Rattle's recording of Gershwin's "Porgy & Bess" and Karajan's recording of Bizet's "Carmen." It opened up a whole new world for me and I've been addicted ever since.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Can't really say who listens these days but I'm definitely in the 'other' category! It's so difficult to explain something which touches you on an emotional level but I do find listening to opera therapeutic.

Also the internet has made opera more accessible for me. A few years ago if, for example, I'd wanted to go to Munich I wouldn't have known where to start. But with a few clicks it's tickets, flights, hotel - sorted.


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## OperaSaz (Feb 12, 2010)

Yeah, I'm with polednice on this one, it's very different to ask "Who listens to it more" and "who enjoys it more". Any person can enjoy any art form on any level in a highly personal way. But yes, there are some who may not be exposed to all art forms.

Sarah

"Opera is where a guy gets stabbed in the back, and instead of dying, he sings."


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## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm looking forward to hearing the MET matinee live broadcast of *Tosca* tomorrow:

http://www.operainfo.org/

Glad to see Bryn Terfel back in action; Levine, however, won't be conducting.

Neither will Levine conduct *Lulu* (which I've been waiting for all season) with Anne Sofie von Otter.

Will tune in nevertheless...


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## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

So very looking forward to today's MET matinée live broadcast of
*Berg*'s _Lulu_.

http://www.google.com/search?q=met+...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Unfortunately.a lot of people who know little or nothing about it still have this stereotypical image of opera in there heads-you know, a bunch of rich,bored people sitting in their opera boxes, dressed to the nines, yawning etc,while fat people in ridiculous pseudo-viking costumes scream at each other in some incomprehensible language. 
And the rich people aren't there because they love opera, but because it's a social occaision where they go to see and be seen. 
But I'm sure there are some wealthy people who go to the opera because they genuinely do enjoy it. Probably,most people who go are middle class,or upper middle. And yes, tickets can be very expensive, although they vary depending on where you are sitting.You don't have to be wealthy to go to the opera.
But the fact is that the vast majority of operagoers really do love opera. 
And there have been many times where people who thought they would not like it have been finally persuded by their opera-loving friends to try it , found out that opera is a fantastic experience, and were hooked. It happens all the time. 
Now,it's easier than ever before to enjoy opera,live or recorded. There are HD broadcasts in movie theaters of Met performances and now from other leading opera companies. 
More and more live performances of a wide variety of DVD opera performances are available; 
countless complete opera recordings on CD, and the internet is a great way to experience opera,too.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

That should read "in their heads". Slip of the finger. I'm not illiterate!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

superhorn said:


> And yes, tickets can be very expensive, although they vary depending on where you are sitting.


Which is no different from the situation in other genres really. You'd be surprised how much you'd have to pay for a good seat at a Fleetwood Mac or Eagles concert these days.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> Which is no different from the situation in other genres really. You'd be surprised how much you'd have to pay for a good seat at a Fleetwood Mac or Eagles concert these days.


Yeah, recently I've heard how much they want for ticket for standing place at Metallica concert.

I could attend classical concerts each week for couple of months with this cash.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aramis said:


> Yeah, recently I've heard how much they want for ticket for standing place at Metallica concert.
> 
> I could attend classical concerts each week for couple of months with this cash.


Right. And a lot of the time those rock acts are playing in venues that weren't build for music and have bad acoustics so that you can still hear the guitar solo they played five minutes ago bouncing of the walls.


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## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

Personne (sans moi) didn't audit the MET's matinée live broadcast of *Berg*'s _Lulu_?

Quelle dommage...

Time to hear *Humperdinck*'s _Hänsel und Gretel_--after Berg's _Wozzeck_...


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm from the lower middle class, or at least from a time when that kind of designation was still being used.

Very little money, though. Zero exposure to fine art until two things happened: inherited an old Book of Knowledge encyclopedia and some 78s with jazz and classical music.

I loved art and music and literature instantly (around nine years old when all this happened) and have continued to love them ever since.

So I'd be very hesitant to identify a love for classical music et cetera as being tied to class or education either one. I didn't get it from my working class family or from any early schooling. In seventh grade, we got a music teacher who presented a music appreciation class. Too late! I was already well and truly hooked.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I was at the opera Friday. There were predominantly 2 types of people:

1. Older than hell itself (85%)
2. 20 to 30-something yuppies (15%)

Very rare to see a middle-aged person.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Couchie said:


> I was at the opera Friday. There were predominantly 2 types of people:
> 
> 1. Older than hell itself (85%)
> 2. 20 to 30-something yuppies (15%)
> ...


Third type was Couchie. The elite minority.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

the working classes make up the majority so probably them.

my next door neighbor like opera but he also has worked as a steam train driver (we still have them here).


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> Well in the Netherlands there are no longer official nobility or gentry (not even sure what the latter means). But in general the opera is attended by upper class though I think this is mostly due to the expensive tickets. I am not aware of any statistics concerning class division of record sales, but I am inclined to agree with Polednice that enjoyment transcends class. It may however have a correlation with education, and the wealthy tend to be better educated.


Well there's a surprise, I wonder what your royal family think about that comment?
As for Lord Roberts, are you real or a put on or have you been watching too much "Upstairs Downstairs"? The toffs you know and all that huntin' fishin' and shootin' --talk about ROFL guvnor, lord luv a duck! I have been enjoying opera for 150 years and apart from the constriction regarding having the money (as with anything in life) I have seen and met people from every walk of life, I don't suppose all the folk who appear here are from the upper strata.
What with the various radio stations available and classical music appearing in all sorts of situations, the chances are there--and I left school at fifteen to join the army.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Edward Elgar said:


> Who listens to Opera in the 21st Century?
> 
> Academics and rich people.
> 
> ...


You fairly obviously don't go to the opera--and I ain't no academic!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Lord Roberts said:


> Now the question is where do you see yourself socially? I see myself as moneyless Upper Class Gentry.


If you are moneyless upper class gentry you won't be seen socially--I still cannot believe this thread, I know it is a joke by Polednice.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Aramis said:


> I see you are more insterested in talking about your place in society than music itself. This thread seem to consider opera, but I see "let's comfort each other that we are cool and sophisciated" between the lines. I doubt you really belong to high society and are real gentleman. I rather smell a poseur. Is there a guy like one in your avatar at other side of the cable, or maybe some geezer with low self-esteem, who want to think of himself as a "lord"? All about you is filled with pretentiousness and stinks for miles with it. Nobility? Upper class? Today only few people can honestly claim to be part of these, so it's less than unlikely that we have a honour to met one of them here, on this board.
> 
> Well, seem like I've gone quite far in my conclusions. Therefore let me justify myself, this is mainly directed *to the moderators*, which probably are about to remove the post or something: my post is completely clear of malice etc., and if I did ment to attack someone, that's just because I'm totally right. More - I belive that we don't deal with real person, rather someone who's actually acting (maybe before himself too) and playing a lord on the web. Therefore no matter how vicious my post can sound, it didin't insult anyone... real.


I hope that you-know -who do no such thing because I have come to exactly the same conclusion. Also this sort of thing gives the British a bad name.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> ah sorry my mistake. we do have nobility i just do not agree with the concept


Ho! Ho! now you remember! You can't forget you have a royal family, this goes to prove it is a big joke ! But on the other hand they will be pretty down-hearted to read your revalation, I think you should be more careful in regard of peoples' feelings. I suppose they go to the opera wouldn't you say?


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Poconoron does.


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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

Why are we talking about class in this day and age? The social devision nowadays is by wealth not who are your ancestors. The more important point is whether the age of opera lover will decrease in the 21 century. At the moment I believe the average age of people who listen to opera on a regular basis is 60 (I belong to the upper half of the average). If the average age goes up that is bad sign. It shows that this art form is running out of adherents and may some day die out. I hope it would not happen during my life time.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I've heard Simon Keenlyside complain about the 'sea of grey hair' which he sees when he looks out over an audience but if the average age stays the same there's not going to be a problem.

The whipper-snappers of today will be the grey-haired opera lovers of tomorrow.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> I've heard Simon Keenlyside complain about the 'sea of grey hair' which he sees when he looks out over an audience.....


My solution


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

LordBlackudder said:


> my next door neighbor like opera but he also has worked as a steam train driver (we still have them here).


I rather wish we still had them here, too . . .

As far as who attends/enjoys opera, I can only speak to what I've observed at the houses where I've attended performances. For our local company last season, the audiences tended to be predominantly white, middle/upper-middle class, and middle aged. However, I did notice a number of young adults, African-Americans, and even some parents with young children. Why anyone attends an opera -- for love of the music or as some sort of status symbol -- is only something the individual knows. The fact that someone is dressed to the nines doesn't automatically mean that he/she is primarily interested in opera as a social occasion. Could be -- but could equally be that he/she truly loves the music.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

moody said:


> Ho! Ho! now you remember! You can't forget you have a royal family, this goes to prove it is a big joke ! But on the other hand they will be pretty down-hearted to read your revalation, I think you should be more careful in regard of peoples' feelings. I suppose they go to the opera wouldn't you say?


There is a distinction. We have a limited royal family, but no peerage like in England (Barons, Lords etc...) , and our upper chamber is fully elected!

As for the rest of your post, im not quite sure I fully understand your humour. The Queen has a reserved box, but is rarely in attendance.


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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

MAuer said:


> The fact that someone is dressed to the nines doesn't automatically mean that he/she is primarily interested in opera as a social occasion. Could be -- but could equally be that he/she truly loves the music.


My normal attire is Tee shirt, shorts and sandals, but when I go to an opera I put on a shirt, trousers and shoes out of respect to the artist.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> There is a distinction. We have a limited royal family, but no peerage like in England (Barons, Lords etc...) , and our upper chamber is fully elected!
> 
> As for the rest of your post, im not quite sure I fully understand your humour. The Queen has a reserved box, but is rarely in attendance.


My sense of humour is only for the keenest of brains. Don't you see how ridiculous this thread actually is. One of the reasons that the audience at the opera is of advanced age is the laughable price of tickets.
Our House of Lords is made up of hereditary peers and people who were put forward by the political parties so you have trade union leaders and all sorts in the mix. It has advanced slightly from Dickens' days. By the way either have a royal family or don't, who wants them riding around on bicycles or going to the supermarket.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Yes I am in full agreement and already expressed this in my first post in the thread:



emiellucifuge said:


> But in general the opera is attended by upper class though I think this is mostly due to the expensive tickets. I am not aware of any statistics concerning class division of record sales, but I am inclined to agree with Polednice that enjoyment transcends class. It may however have a correlation with education, and the wealthy tend to be better educated.


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## SirenSoprano (Jan 29, 2013)

Hello all! I wanted to respond to someone's comment about vibrato. Yes it is true that there is a shimmering vibrato in the voice, but it should be as unintrusive as the vibrato used by a masterful violinist. Any more or wider vibrato, you know when it becomes almost a joke because it is so ugly and unnatural sounding, is due to lack of strength in breath support and control. In other wards, many people do not like opera singers because they have a wobble and are not very good technicians. Listen to the old historical singers like Rosa Ponselle, she had barely a shimmer and apparently was the most admired and loved singer in history with a voice that could fill a huge hall. I have been studying this technique, I may demonstrate it to a certain degree. Check out some sound clips to hear what I mean. www.SirenSoprano.com


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## SirenSoprano (Jan 29, 2013)

Basically, I think less people attend the opera today because, simply, there aren't as many amazing superstar singers to draw the public in!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I would say primarily(going back to the original question - 3) - The Upper-Classes and 4) - Middle Classes and "Nouveau Riches"

I think a lot of people don't have time or inclination for classical music....


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## huntsman (Jan 28, 2013)

No idea what the demographics are regarding opera attendance, and I haven't been for 15 years, but this thread has inspired me to go as soon as one is appearing.

Who attends? Fat, middle-aged blokes who can still see the humorous side of life, for sure. For the rest? No idea!


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## palJacky (Nov 27, 2010)

Dster said:


> My normal attire is Tee shirt, shorts and sandals, but when I go to an opera I put on a shirt, trousers and shoes out of respect to the artist.


I used to do the cheap sport coat or bad sweater, no tie kind of thing when I was in my twenties and early thirties. Showing off that I was a young 'believer' in the stuff. I was there to hear the music.
"dockers" were ''as much as anyone there was going to get."
and purposely didn't shave two or three days before.
that kind of nonsense....

Those 'look at me days' are long gone.

Now that I'm middle aged it is a good reason to put on a decent suit and try to blend in.
I can actually pass for 'distinguished'---


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Dster said:


> My normal attire is Tee shirt, shorts and sandals, but when I go to an opera I put on a shirt, trousers and shoes out of respect to the artist.


I'd hope the artists are too busy focusing on what they're doing on stage as opposed to judging the audience's dress choices.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

When I went to see "Siegfried" back in December, I put on jeans and a sweater, but I enjoyed the opera much more than all the dressed-up middle-aged yawning couples sitting next to me who had probably come just because the event had been advertised a lot. In fact I believe, out of all the audience I enjoyed it the most


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I love to watch separate parts, i haven't been able to watch a whole opera from beginning to end without out breaks.


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