# Any Love for Ligeti?



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm spending some time listening to his music and I'd appreciate anyone else's experiences and ideas. My first thought is that he wrote in a lot of different types of styles! The Ligeti of _Lontano_ doesn't seem to have too much in common with the Ligeti of the _Horn Trio_, and the horn trio doesn't seem to have much in common with _Síppal, dobbal, nádihegedűvel_. And that piano music sounds very catchy!


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

Listened to his violin concerto yesterday. A great piece, especially the Passacaglia and the final movement. Some parts sounded to me almost a bit like "classical world music ". I was reminded vaguely of some central Asian music. I read up on him later and found out he was influenced by microtonal music when he wrote the concerto, maybe that explains it. His music has great colour, drama and, unlike a lot of other contemporary composers, also appeals on an emotional level. I will definitely listen to more of his music in the future.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I've just started getting into Ligeti a few months ago. Don't miss the Chamber Concerto, or Atmosphères, or Ramifications. In fact, just get this disc










I've found it to be a great starting point. I'm still looking for a recording for the piano music, which seems fascinating.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I can't imagine 2001: A Space Odyssey without Ligeti. An inspired choice by Kubrick. Just last week I put on Le Grande Macabre - an acquired taste for sure, but what a wild piece. The orchestration is bewildering - who else (other than Spike Jones) would score it for 12 car horns?


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Much love for everything that Ligeti wrote. Most important artist of the 20th c. imo. And you're right, he had distinct phases throught his career, one that extends from the late 50's/early 60's up to 77/8 with Le Grand Macabre, a period of relative silence, and then another phase from the horn trio to perhaps the end of his life, although yes, sippal, dobbal, nádihegedűvel could have marked the beginning of something new had he been able to still write throughout the last years of his life. I recommend a french documentary on YT about him, if you're interested, it shows that he wasn't only a very fine composer, but also a very interesting man. 
He was a modern composer who rejected dogma and schools and had perhaps one the most open ears (in the sense of open to all sorts of musics) ever.

EDIT: Of course, there's early Ligeti before leaving Hungary. From the 40's he had some very nice and short piano pieces, but his most outstanding works from that period are the Musica Ricercata, the Cello Sonata and the first String Quartet


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

A lot of Ligeti sounds similar to me. The sound from the Requiem, has a similar feel to me as Clocks and Clouds, Lontano and probably others. He is hit and miss for me, most of his music isn't really my taste, but I think he was a skilled composer. I like the string quartets, continuum for harpsichord, the six bagatelles, which I think are all probably among his more conservative works.


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

I love the cartoonish and whimsical late works the best. The piano concerto is the one i return the most.


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

It's not my favourite period of classical music but I appreciate it.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

tdc said:


> A lot of Ligeti sounds similar to me. The sound from the Requiem, has a similar feel to me as Clocks and Clouds, Lontano and probably others.


I agree, but that's a conscious effort by Ligeti to perfect his, imo, unique style and really get the most out of it. Then he hit a dead end and changed completely from Le Grand Macabre onwards, in a way it's really as if he were two different composers, but there's always something in his music that is very Ligeti.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I like most of what I've heard from him except the Grand Macabre. I have The Ligeti Project and Ligeti Masterworks box sets, but my problem is, I don't get to listen to them much. My wife doesn't like this kind of music, so I usually only listen to him when she's out of the house. As they say, happy wife, happy wife.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

No ....................


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I really like the piano and violin concerti and the solo piano works, and “Atmospheres” is my personal boundary between the kind of music that I can tolerate and that which I can’t in terms of dissonance. I once tried to listen to the Requiem but it made me feel so disturbed I couldn’t finish it!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

One of my favorites! I've got three box sets. I find his muture compositions unique and fascinating. And brilliantly constructed. His personal notes in the original Sony box and Teldec set are very informative.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Ligeti is one of the greatest composers of all time. His Violin Concerto, Etudes, Piano Concerto, Requiem, are among the top of human achievements.






Absolutely incredible.

I've also listened to Le Grand Macabre several times; couldn't make sense of the story but it was entertaining and innovative.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for all these inspiring replies.


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## neofite (Feb 19, 2017)

chu42 said:


> Ligeti is one of the greatest composers of all time. His Violin Concerto, Etudes, Piano Concerto, Requiem, are among the top of human.
> 
> I've also listened to Le Grand Macabre several times; couldn't make sense of the story but it was entertaining and innovative.


Are you sure you don't mean "Ligeti is one of the greatest composers of _his_ time."?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> Much love for everything that Ligeti wrote. Most important artist of the 20th c. imo. And you're right, he had distinct phases throught his career, one that extends from the late 50's/early 60's up to 77/8 with Le Grand Macabre, a period of relative silence, and then another phase from the horn trio to perhaps the end of his life, although yes, sippal, dobbal, nádihegedűvel could have marked the beginning of something new had he been able to still write throughout the last years of his life. I recommend a french documentary on YT about him, if you're interested, it shows that he wasn't only a very fine composer, but also a very interesting man.
> He was a modern composer who rejected dogma and schools and had perhaps one the most open ears (in the sense of open to all sorts of musics) ever.
> 
> EDIT: Of course, there's early Ligeti before leaving Hungary. From the 40's he had some very nice and short piano pieces, but his most outstanding works from that period are the Musica Ricercata, the Cello Sonata and the first String Quartet


I want to understand these style changes better, what was motivating him. Is there anything good to read?

How did he get from Atmospheres to the viola sonata? It's as striking the development of Stockhausen, from Kontate to Klang


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I'm behind on my reading about Ligeti, but I've downloaded a couple of books. The only author whose name I remember at the moments is Paul Griffiths. I've read his book "Modern Music and After" which is really good and it has a fair amount of Ligeti in it, but I don't remember anything that would thoroughly answer your question. He also wrote one specifically about him, so perhaps he goes more into detail there. However, I've seen and read quite a few very interesting interviews around the internet, in german and in english (also the documentary I mentioned has english subtitles and it's really good and will give you some answers I think), they're easy to find.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

neofite said:


> Are you sure you don't mean "Ligeti is one of the greatest composers of _his_ time."?


No, why would I mean that?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I learned Lux Aeterna and Atmospheres the way most people did -- by watching 2001 A Space Odyssey. I have owned the collection for years that included the versions played in the film; it includes the Chamber Concerto for 13 Instruments and two versions of Raminfications. I have also listened at length to the Brahms-inspired Horn Trio, the Requiem, Lontano and some other stuff.

Try as I might only Luex Aeterna and Atmospheres continue to register with me over time. I chalk that up to mean I liked the movie at lot more than Ligeti.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Count me as another big fan of Ligeti!

Don't ignore his string quartets. 

Love his violin concerto. 

One of my favorite pieces, Chamber Concerto for 13 instrumentalists seems to go underappreciated.

Ramifications, Atmospheres are also very good.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Ligeti wrote some very neat works for Woodwind 5tet:
6 Bagatelles (1953)
10 Pieces for 5tet (1968)
the former is very "Bartokian" (one mvt is a tribute to the master)
the latter is more into his explorations of chromtacism and 12 tone techniques, not so much in the Bartok mode...
good stuff- they work well for WW5tet...
I also like "Atmospheres"


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

Mandryka, I highly recommend Richard Steinitz's book called, simply, Gyorgy Ligeti. A really excellent and detailed account of his life and music.

I adore Ligeti's sound worlds, but find some of his vocal pieces simply annoying when they stray into Alice In Wonderland, Jarry, sort of places.

I couldn't live without his orchestral and chamber works though, and the solo piano pieces are remarkable.


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

This brief movement of Musica Ricercata played by Pierre-Laurent Aimard is one of the loveliest pieces of music I know.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

There is a very good YouTube channel by contemporary Canadian composer, Samuel Andreyev.

On one of his very informative videos, he does some in depth analysis of Chamber Concerto.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

thejewk said:


> This brief movement of Musica Ricercata played by Pierre-Laurent Aimard is one of the loveliest pieces of music I know.


He used that same theme in the 2nd movement of his Violin Concerto, albeit in a much more reverential atmosphere.


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## cheregi (Jul 16, 2020)

While I haven't delved too deeply into Ligeti's music, I know that at least one of the aforementioned phases of his writing was strongly influenced by his study of Central African mbuti vocal polyphony, which is one of my favorite forms of 'traditional music'. There are plenty of recordings, and there's been plenty written about the connection, I'd recommend checking that out in order to contextualize Ligeti.


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## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

Thank you for pointing out that connection. I just listened to some mbuti singing I found on Spotify and then some of his piano etudes (great, by the way), the ones that were performed in a 2001 concert in Berlin with a group of Aka singers. All I can say is that the combination works but I would not have made the connection myself. Wish I had been in the Kammermusiksaal to hear Ligetis introduction to the concert.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

thejewk said:


> This brief movement of Musica Ricercata played by Pierre-Laurent Aimard is one of the loveliest pieces of music I know.


It is nice and its form is simple and traditional - rapid ostinato and a repeated melody. The organic informal development of Atmosphères has been utterly rejected. I wonder why.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Simon Moon said:


> There is a very good YouTube channel by contemporary Canadian composer, Samuel Andreyev.
> 
> On one of his very informative videos, he does some in depth analysis of Chamber Concerto.


It's an interesting piece of music. Of all the concertos it's the cello concerto which I like the most.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is the first performance of the cello concerto, with Siegfried Palm and Henryk Czys. Very good! Not to be confused with Palm's later recording with Leeuw.


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> It is nice and its form is simple and traditional - rapid ostinato and a repeated melody. The organic informal development of Atmosphères has been utterly rejected. I wonder why.


Musica Ricercata was written before his move to Germany away from the heavy censorship of the Communist authorities, and was a private attempt by Ligeti to develop a musical language or his own. He allows himself two pitches in the first movement, three in the second, etc, and through the process explores a lot of the rhythmical ideas that are explored throughout much of his creative life afterwards. Atmospheres, Lontano, etc came afterwards after he had explored electronic composition for a while and spent time with the other composers in the area like Stockhausen.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

thejewk said:


> Musica Ricercata was written before his move to Germany away from the heavy censorship of the Communist authorities, and was a private attempt by Ligeti to develop a musical language or his own..


Yes, I had forgotten that the Musca Ricercata is so very early.

Here's a piece which seems right at the cutting edge of the American avant garde, the three Bagatelles for David Tudor seem to me to be clearly influenced by Cage. 10 years after Musica Ricercata


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I recommend a french documentary on YT about him, if you're interested, it shows that he wasn't only a very fine composer, but also a very interesting man.


Yes, very good. Thanks.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> I would say that _Automne a Varsovie_ is both reminiscent of past music while being strangely alien to it. It's not a continuation of Ligeti's earlier avant garde style but seems to be a synthesis of earlier styles of music using his own established, idiosyncratic techniques. Ligeti's style was always evolving, and the reclaiming of the past, of harmony, melody, and finally form, is a process that began in the 1960s and continued into his later music. Ligeti was always preoccupied with maintaining his musical individuality. Or as he said, "By rejecting both the 'retro' and the former avant-garde, I declare for myself a modernism of today."


Listening to the Etudes this morning, very attractive music. This may be silly but the thought crossed my mind that they're rather like Rachmaninov's Etudes Tableaux. 

Is that the destiny of Darmstadt people? Hopefully I'm forgetting the details of the Rach.

Added. After typing that I found this programme note from a series I unfortunately missed, p 12 is the relevant part. Maybe the Rach sound is limited to Bk 1.

https://www.barbican.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/2019-11/Tamara Stefanovich for web .pdf


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank you Mandryka for starting this thread. I never get around to listening to enough Ligeti - I really don't know why I don't stick with him a bit longer each time, I'm just in and out!

I've been to a fair few concerts with Ligeti works down the years and have all the usual recordings and box sets.

I bought the Finnish Radio Symphony/Hannu Lintu/Benjamin Scmid Ondine release a few years ago and I've been listening to it regularly, but little else by the great man. The Lontano on this disc is broad, but you don't realise it while listening. Love it!


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Currently listening to '*Volumina*' 1961/2 (revised 1966)

Will move on to the Etudes next ........


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> Thank you Mandryka for starting this thread. I never get around to listening to enough Ligeti - I really don't know why I don't stick with him a bit longer each time, I'm just in and out!
> 
> I've been to a fair few concerts with Ligeti works down the years and have all the usual recordings and box sets.
> 
> I bought the Finnish Radio Symphony/Hannu Lintu/Benjamin Scmid Ondine release a few years ago and I've been listening to it regularly, but little else by the great man. The Lontano on this disc is broad, but you don't realise it while listening. Love it!


Yes those pieces from around 1968 - Lontano, Atmosphères etc, are fabulous I think. I feel about Ligeti the same as I feel about Boulez, I'm strongly attracted to the earlier stuff, less so to the later.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Yes those pieces from around 1968 - Lontano, Atmosphères etc, are fabulous I think. I feel about Ligeti the same as I feel about Boulez, I'm strongly attracted to the earlier stuff, less so to the later.


That was probably his golden era, but I really like the later stuff too, like the violin, piano and Hamburg concertos.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

This thread has inspired me to explore some Ligeti. I was trying to decide between the Teldec "Ligeti Project Vol 1-5" collection, and the DG Ligeti Clear or Cloudy collection.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8077487--the-ligeti-project-volumes-1-5
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7950140--ligeti-clear-or-cloudy

Any thoughts?


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

MatthewWeflen said:


> This thread has inspired me to explore some Ligeti. I was trying to decide between the Teldec "Ligeti Project Vol 1-5" collection, and the DG Ligeti Clear or Cloudy collection.
> 
> https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8077487--the-ligeti-project-volumes-1-5
> https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7950140--ligeti-clear-or-cloudy
> ...


I have them both. They both have a first class selection of around 5 hours music performed exceptionally well. There's very little to choose between them. If push came to shove, I'd ever so marginally favour the Ligeti Project over Clear Or Cloudy. Slightly better performances on some works, but CoC has a better emphasis on chamber works.

You may have to look carefully at both sets to see if the slightly different contents makes a difference for you. For example, there's no 'Clocks and Clouds' on Clear Or Cloudy, and no 'Volumina' on Ligeti Project.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

HenryPenfold said:


> I have them both. They both have a first class selection of around 5 hours music performed exceptionally well. There's very little to choose between them. If push came to shove, I'd ever so marginally favour the Ligeti Project over Clear Or Cloudy. Slightly better performances on some works, but CoC has a better emphasis on chamber works.
> 
> You may have to look carefully at both sets to see if the slightly different contents makes a difference for you. For example, there's no 'Clocks and Clouds' on Clear Or Cloudy, and no 'Volumina' on Ligeti Project.


Thanks for the advice, Henry. Is the Requiem worth making a decision over? It's only on the Ligeti Project


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Thanks for the advice, Henry. Is the Requiem worth making a decision over? It's only on the Ligeti Project


I like Ligeti's Requiem very much and wouldn't like to be without it, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for many people because there's so many other works to be getting on with. Try having a listen on your streaming service or YouTube before you choose.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> I like Ligeti's Requiem very much and wouldn't like to be without it, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for many people because there's so many other works to be getting on with. Try having a listen on your streaming service or YouTube before you choose.


The French documentary linked early on in this thread is interesting on the requiem because he says his inspiration was Ockeghem.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Thanks for the advice, Henry. Is the Requiem worth making a decision over? It's only on the Ligeti Project


You must have access to the requiem, it is a masterpiece.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> The French documentary linked early on in this thread is interesting on the requiem because he says his inspiration was Ockeghem.


I was very surprised when I heard him say that he was very inspired by Ockgehem. In a way, I can hear it, in many others no. But it also reminded me of something that Stravinsky said in one of his conversations with Craft, that was along the lines of modern composers being really akin and similar to composers from the renaissance and medieval music.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> You must have access to the requiem, it is a masterpiece.


You have a point. But the reason why I'm not fixed in my advice is because I've had my fingers burnt when I was resolute on Stravinsky's Requiem Canticles and DSCH symphony 4. Two masterpieces that did not go down well with the recipient of my advice and I was not thanked!! 

Streaming helps, nowadays ...........


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I was very surprised when I heard him say that he was very inspired by Ockgehem. In a way, I can hear it, in many others no. But it also reminded me of something that Stravinsky said in one of his conversations with Craft, that was along the lines of modern composers being really akin and similar to composers from the renaissance and medieval music.


Another thing which attracted my attention was that he says that when he got to Cologne he was in the place where Stockhausen and Konig were working (41,22) Is he talking about Gottfried Michael Koenig, a new name for me.

http://koenigproject.nl/

And I was struck by how he related the multi-layered polyphony of Atmospheres to his research with electronic music. It made me think that history will see the advent of electronic music as something as important as the invention of the stave.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> You must have access to the requiem, it is a masterpiece.


I went with the Teldec "Ligeti Project" set for this reason, and because it contains more modern recordings.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I went with the Teldec "Ligeti Project" set for this reason, and because it contains more modern recordings.


It's a great set! Probably the best single box to go for if you're only going to buy one Ligeti set. Comes with a nice booklet too.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

starthrower said:


> It's a great set! Probably the best single box to go for if you're only going to buy one Ligeti set. Comes with a nice booklet too.


The booklet being available on Presto definitely weighed in my decision.  It has Ligeti discussing his own works.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

starthrower said:


> It's a great set! Probably the best single box to go for if you're only going to buy one Ligeti set. Comes with a nice booklet too.


Yes, I have a slight preference for it. But I don't think it's straight forward. Clear Or Cloudy has the two string quartets by the Hagen Quartet, an awesome 17 minute Volumina, Harmonies (1967) and Lux Aeterna as used in 2001 a A Space Odyssey. They can be got separately, but I think Matthew should now also buy the DG set, then the Sony set! :lol:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterworks-Box-Set-G-Ligeti/dp/B07MCW81MK/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2EMBY93AMFRQ8&dchild=1&keywords=ligeti&qid=1611600203&s=music&sprefix=ligeti%2Cdigital-music%2C145&sr=1-2


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

MatthewWeflen said:


> The booklet being available on Presto definitely weighed in my decision.  It has Ligeti discussing his own works.


Yes! He doesn't go in to great detail but he does give the listener a basic description of how each work was constructed. The obvious companion to the Teldec set would be the Sony box which includes the chamber music and piano works. The original red box also comes with a similar booklet but I'm not sure if any affordable copies are available? That set has been superseded by a more recent bargain box.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

starthrower said:


> Yes! He doesn't go in to great detail but he does give the listener a basic description of how each work was constructed. The obvious companion to the Teldec set would be the Sony box which includes the chamber music and piano works. The original red box also comes with a similar booklet but I'm not sure if any affordable copies are available? That set has been superseded by a more recent bargain box.


An excellent supplement in terms of genre. I have the red box, but I think the latest Sony incarnation of it is available from Amazon quite readily ......https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterwork...music&sprefix=ligeti,digital-music,145&sr=1-2


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The newer box most likely doesn't include the booklet as none of those cheap boxes do.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Listening again just now to the requiem made me wonder, does anyone else use glissando like Ligeti in some of those 1960s works? I mean, a some of the music seems to have the effect of pitches blending totally smoothly one into the other, rather than being organised into a discrete scale.


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## Doctor Fuse (Feb 3, 2021)

My orchestra played a Ligeti Festival several years ago. Very demanding music, but his Piano Concerto was amazingly mesmerizing stuff. Needed quite a few beers after the concert (and rehearsals), though!


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I've got mad love for the music of Ligeti. Early, middle, late: there are gems in all of it. One of the greatest thrills of my life was getting to meet him. People go bonkers over someone like Lady Gaga, which for me, if ever met her, would be unexciting. "Oh, hey. How's it going?" Meeting Ligeti though... >Dopey inarticulate fanboy alert< ... But he was incredibly nice to me and always gracious to everyone as far as I could tell.

When I was in graduate school, in composition, of course all of us composers argued about music all the time, really, _all_ the time. Which music was good, which was rubbish, what the future direction of music should be, etc. It was all highly contentious. But there was one composer whose greatness we all absolutely agreed on: György Ligeti.


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## LAS (Dec 12, 2014)

*A CD recommendation.*

"Love" may be a little strong, but I've certainly grown to appreciate Ligeti via a concert by Jeremy Denk, where he combined Ligeti and Bach and from the CD Ligety/Beethoven where he plays Ligeti etudes and Beethoven's last piano sonata. Electrifying.


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Ha ha ha ha ha...... no....


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

LAS said:


> "Love" may be a little strong, but I've certainly grown to appreciate Ligeti via a concert by Jeremy Denk, where he combined Ligeti and Bach and from the CD Ligety/Beethoven where he plays Ligeti etudes and Beethoven's last piano sonata. Electrifying.


Those etudes get more interesting as you go through the books -- Bk 3 is very different from Bk 1. Worth exploring.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Knorf said:


> I've got mad love for the music of Ligeti. Early, middle, late: there are gems in all of it. One of the greatest thrills of my life was getting to meet him. People go bonkers over someone like Lady Gaga, which for me, if ever met her, would be unexciting. "Oh, hey. How's it going?" Meeting Ligeti though... >Dopey inarticulate fanboy alert< ... But he was incredibly nice to me and always gracious to everyone as far as I could tell.
> 
> When I was in graduate school, in composition, of course all of us composers argued about music all the time, really, _all_ the time. Which music was good, which was rubbish, what the future direction of music should be, etc. It was all highly contentious. But there was one composer whose greatness we all absolutely agreed on: György Ligeti.


The requiem is a summit of 20th century music IMO.


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

I like early Ligeti:


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## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

I LOVE Ligeti, and I love late Ligeti most. The Requiem, Melodien, Clocks and Clouds are quite elegant, but his 4 postmodern behemoths stand out to mean: the piano concerto, violin concerto, Le Grand Macabre, and the crown jewel, the piano études. I might compare him to be the musical equivalent of Thomas Pynchon in sheer maximalist eclecticism. Where Pynchon has narratives inside of narratives, Ligeti has ultra-dense textures of melodies and rhythms on top of each other, and both revel in humor and scandal. The études range from hyper-intricate fractal complexity, like Désordre and À bout de souffle, to sublime tenderness like in Cordes à vide. One of the best piano sets ever.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Those etudes get more interesting as you go through the books -- Bk 3 is very different from Bk 1. Worth exploring.


Etudes are the easiest to half-áss since one can always make the excuse that they weren't meant to be musical, merely pedagogical. Thus there are thousands of etudes that have the musicality of a brick. Czerny perhaps wrote half of them.

But Ligeti's etudes are simply incredible. They really have no pedagogical use since the technique required for most of them is actually higher than the technique required for most concert repertoire. But the musicality, the creativity, and sometimes just the sheer beauty-I have no doubt that Ligeti's set belong in the rare club of etude-writing that subverts and transcends the original pedagogical purpose of the piano study.

Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Debussy, need to move over and make some room for Ligeti.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Knorf said:


> I've got mad love for the music of Ligeti. Early, middle, late: there are gems in all of it. One of the greatest thrills of my life was getting to meet him. People go bonkers over someone like Lady Gaga, which for me, if ever met her, would be unexciting. "Oh, hey. How's it going?" Meeting Ligeti though... >Dopey inarticulate fanboy alert< ... But he was incredibly nice to me and always gracious to everyone as far as I could tell.
> 
> When I was in graduate school, in composition, of course all of us composers argued about music all the time, really, _all_ the time. Which music was good, which was rubbish, what the future direction of music should be, etc. It was all highly contentious. But there was one composer whose greatness we all absolutely agreed on: György Ligeti.


Unsuk Chin said he would throw some of the students' music in the garbage (in front of them?). His genius was evident. I particularly like his piano concerto and 2nd string quartet.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Deleted because it wasn't right.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Sure, I love Ligeti! For me, one of the most fascinating post-WWII avant-garde composers to emerge. His musical eccentricity is what I find refreshing. He seemed to be not be tied down by one particular style, but a multitude of them.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Count me as another fan. He was one of my early discoveries when I discovered modern, avant-garde, classical. 

Not quite as big a fan as I used to be. Other composers have since surpassed him in my mind.

I no longer like the piano concerto, but the violin concerto holds up for me quite well. 

Ramifications, Lontano, Atmoshperes, Fragment, also hold up well for me.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

In general I have little time for composers of the "avant-garde". Ligeti is a clear exception though I particularly like some of his late works which are stylistically rather different from the "filmic" ones from his heyday. Examples like the piano concerto, violin concerto, Le Grand Macabre and, particularly perhaps, the Hamburg concerto. Unquestionably a genius.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Thank God for auteur visionaries like Stanley Kubrick. Rather than pay talentless, money-grubbing, rip-off artists like Hans Zimmer; he actually sought out works by contemporary 20th Century composers, like Ligeti, Penderecki, Bartok and made them seamlessly fit within his films. 

It’s because of this that these three composers work are so welcome in concert halls around the globe, unlike the work of equally fine contemporary composers of theirs, such as Szymanowski, Hartmann and Lutoslawski.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Thank God for auteur visionaries like Stanley Kubrick. Rather than pay talentless, money-grubbing, rip-off artists like Hans Zimmer; he actually sought out works by contemporary 20th Century composers, like Ligeti, Penderecki, Bartok and made them seamlessly fit within his films.
> 
> It's because of this that these three composers work are so welcome in concert halls around the globe, unlike the work of equally fine contemporary composers of theirs, such as Szymanowski, Hartmann and Lutoslawski.


I agree with both paragraphs.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Thank God for auteur visionaries like Stanley Kubrick. Rather than pay talentless, money-grubbing, rip-off artists like Hans Zimmer; he actually sought out works by contemporary 20th Century composers, like Ligeti, Penderecki, Bartok and made them seamlessly fit within his films.
> 
> It's because of this that these three composers work are so welcome in concert halls around the globe, unlike the work of equally fine contemporary composers of theirs, such as Szymanowski, Hartmann and Lutoslawski.


I truly don't know how you can accuse Hans Zimmer of these thinks just because you don't like his music, or do you have any other reason besides personal preference?


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

EvaBaron said:


> I truly don't know how you can accuse Hans Zimmer of these thinks just because you don't like his music, or do you have any other reason besides personal preference?


Film music is not classical music; it is trash, that has no interest to me beyond supplementing the visual image.

Great directors, like Kubrick, are able to build whole scenes around a piece of music for dramatic effect. For example, Johann Strauss' Blue Danube and Richard Strauss' Zarathustra in 2001, and Ligeti, Penderecki and Bartok in The Shining. Obviously, these masterpieces can work within a film context.

By contrast, I saw Denis Villeneuve's portentous Dune recently; Zimmer's music, like the film was absolutely dire. I cannot imagine listening to that dirge on its own. And yet, the masses will turn up like seals to hear this convoluted mess played in concert halls from Montreal to Melbourne, in the misguided belief that Zimmer constitutes "classical music".

The only people I feel sorry for are the browbeaten conductors & orchestras who train their whole lives to reach a zenith, only to play contemptible cant to a bunch of swivel-eyed, event junkies…


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Film music is not classical music; it is trash, that has no interest to me beyond supplementing the visual image.
> 
> Great directors, like Kubrick, are able to build whole scenes around a piece of music for dramatic effect. For example, Johann Strauss' Blue Danube and Richard Strauss' Zarathustra in 2001, and Ligeti, Penderecki and Bartok in The Shining. Obviously, these masterpieces can work within a film context.
> 
> ...


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

I strongly object to the terms you use to define film music. It is a separate category for which famous classical composers like prokofiev, feldman, takemitsu, glass, tan dun etc. have written beautiful music. 
Some composers who only write film music have also written extraordinary music, that is however not suited to the concert hall. Zimmer is one of those, although his most recent productions like "Dunes" sound more like workshop compositions and IMHO are not suited for separate hearing (CD).The advantage in their case is that the soundtrack is coherent , creates an ambience, motifs and is specifically suited to the images.
Then there are the composers who rip off classical music like John Williams whom i classify as music with only commercial value.
The great directors like Kubrick and Scorsese save time and money by using existing classical music, which i feel is not only detrimental to the overall quality of their film but also demeaning to the greatness of the music to the point that a Mozart Concerto in now called the Elvira Madigan Concerto. It has one questionable advantage in the sense that it popularises classical music.
Ligeti who is an outstanding composer certainly benefited from his exposure in Kubrick's films.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

justekaia said:


> I strongly object to the terms you use to define film music. It is a separate category for which famous classical composers like prokofiev, feldman, takemitsu, glass, tan dun etc. have written beautiful music.
> Some composers who only write film music have also written extraordinary music, that is however not suited to the concert hall. Zimmer is one of those, although his most recent productions like "Dunes" sound more like workshop compositions and IMHO are not suited for separate hearing (CD).The advantage in their case is that the soundtrack is coherent , creates an ambience, motifs and is specifically suited to the images.
> Then there are the composers who rip off classical music like John Williams whom i classify as music with only commercial value.
> The great directors like Kubrick and Scorsese save time and money by using existing classical music, which i feel is not only detrimental to the overall quality of their film but also demeaning to the greatness of the music to the point that a Mozart Concerto in now called the Elvira Madigan Concerto. It has one questionable advantage in the sense that it popularises classical music.
> Ligeti who is an outstanding composer certainly benefited from his exposure in Kubrick's films.


I do not disagree with much of what you write. However, I think ol’ Wolfgang can survive the sturm und drang of having one of his concerto’s named after a 19th century trapeze artist.

Think about how many people, (like Lil Ludicrous, here) saw Bo Widerberg‘s Elvira Madigan, and were enraptured not just by the blonde bombshell on screen, but the wonderful uses of Amadeus‘ concerto…

Imagine what derivative trash Williams or Zimmer would have come up with?

Poor Elvira would probably have ended up waving a light-sabre around, in order to fend off intergalic slugs, while some pastiche from Flight of the Valkyries played out at obscenely loud levels…


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## John O (Jan 16, 2021)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I was very surprised when I heard him say that he was very inspired by Ockgehem. In a way, I can hear it, in many others no. But it also reminded me of something that Stravinsky said in one of his conversations with Craft, that was along the lines of modern composers being really akin and similar to composers from the renaissance and medieval music.


Try Birtwistle's orchestration of Ut Heremita Solus (on Spotify, seems to have disappeared from YouTube)


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