# Why don't I like Brahms' concertos?



## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Love his symphonies (except no. 2), worship his chamber music. But find his much loved and admired piano and violin concertos bloated and or slightly dull. What's wrong with me?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

That's odd. It's the concertos I really go for. I find the symphonies a bit dull to be honest. But Brahms's writing for concerto form works well in its own context.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Agree completely with DavidA - a bit strange, considering the relatively big variety found in the concerto works - also the "chamber music" heard there (obviously the cello/piano dialogues of the 2nd Piano Concerto, for example).

And certainly the very varying and different-sounding recordings of them as well.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

How about the double concerto.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Pugg said:


> How about the double concerto.


Not heard yet - I'll try that, thanks.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

juliante said:


> Love his symphonies (except no. 2), worship his chamber music. But find his much loved and admired piano and violin concertos bloated and or slightly dull. What's wrong with me?


Have you seen a psychiatrist?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

To some extent I agree with the OP. Although I do actually like Brahms Concertos I like them less than the Symphonies and other Orchestral works. The exception is maybe the Violin Concerto. As I explained in another thread to me the Concerto form doesn't quite suite Brahms compositional personality... its as though he is being extroverted and introverted all at once.

The worst offender is the Double Concerto - reminds me too much of Dvorak, and of the qualities of the Romantic era I am not really crazy about. If I try to be more objective about it I can see it is still a very good work.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

m


tdc said:


> .. its as though he is being extroverted and introverted all at once.


That, for me, is the great strength and attraction of all of Brahms' music, whether symphony or concerto--richness, ripeness, fullness, breadth of expression. JB bats 4 for 4 in both genres, in my view.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Like a few others above, I prefer the concertos (although not the Double Concerto) to the symphonies. 

This lends credence the notion that one could feel the opposite.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I prefer the violin concerto over all four symphonies, but all four symphonies over the three other concertos, to mix it up even more.

Taste is personal,a nd to a considerable extent unpredictable. I've stopped asking questions like this.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I also think his symphonies are the pinnacle of his orchestral achievement but, aside from the Double, I think the concertos are wonderful, too. I think he manages better than anyone had to blend the two sides - extrovert solo with deeply satisfying musical argument - and I cannot answer the OP. How can anyone not like the concertos?! The first piano concerto gives us an orchestral masterpiece from a relatively young Brahms and in the hands of a great violinist the violin concerto is hard to resist. The second piano concerto is a little more difficult but is very special.


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## Metronom (Apr 12, 2016)

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with you and I understand your view on Brahms's concertante works, especially since, in my opinion at least, other composers have managed to produce substantially better piano and violin concertos.

While the violin concerto may have its moments of glory, particularly in its 3rd movement, a good finale does not make a good work. In all its other aspects it is however extremely dull and it is hard not to turn to Mendelssohn, Sibelius or Saint-Saens for a half hour or so of exceptional music.

The 1st piano concerto, similarly, is to me a most repellant work, simply with too much vehemence and too little development. But the 2nd concerto does seem to be of a different kind altogether in fact and I cherish it greatly for being such emotionally comprehensive, as well as highly unconventional, with 4 movements and highly restrained orchestrational devices at the end. If you haven't yet listened to the Zimerman/Bernstein version of the 2nd with the VPO, I highly recommend it - it is bound to change your attitude towards it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GreenMamba said:


> Like a few others above, I prefer the concertos (although *not the Double Concerto)* to the symphonies.
> 
> This lends credence the notion that one could feel the opposite.


I didn't go for the double concerto until I got the performance with Julia Fischer and Muller-Schott. It is radiant. Then Heifetz-Fuermann is something else despite the ancient recording.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Why does everyone hate the double?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate the double?


I've never understood this either.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate the double?


I don't hate it at all. I just love it less than Brahms' other orchestral masterpieces.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate the double?


Those who hate the Double are being cared for in a special facility.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A friend of mine said he didn't like the Brahms first piano concerto because he found it terrifying, not because he found it boring. I loved that. The young Brahms struggled to harness his Romantic temperament, and the first concerto was intended as a symphony before he found the right form for it. I hear the unique fruit of that struggle and I love it. 

Brahms is deeply paradoxical, as much or more in tackling the concerto form as anywhere. His way of handling the solo piano, especially, is quite opposite to the virtuoso concept of piano-against-orchestra; soloist and orchestra are together engaged in deep philosophical conversation. This applies to the other concerti as well; virtuosity is needed, but is always self-effacing. I think that in his effort to discipline the concerto idea to his aesthetic ideals, Brahms produced works more striking and original than his symphonies.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

As a kid the first concert I went to was of the second piano concerto. I was completely captivated. Despite being four movements and almost an hour long it felt short to me! I wanted it to go on longer and my love of music was born that day.


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## Scarr (Jun 3, 2014)

Because they start off magnificently but then they gradually peter out and leave you with a feeling of very slight disappointment?


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Dr. Robert Greenberg's lecture series "Concert Masterworks" is currently on sale here:

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/concert-masterworks.html

This is an amazing series he did of several masterpieces including the Violin Concerto by Brahms (lectures 21-24). The course also includes a very detailed "word score" that really takes apart the structure of the piece. This series was the single most thing that helped me really fall in love with not only this work but all the rest of the selections covered. The video is great but you really just need the audio version.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

violadude said:


> Why does everyone hate the double?


Not me, I love all 4 concerti


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

arnerich said:


> As a kid the first concert I went to was of the second piano concerto. I was completely captivated. Despite being four movements and almost an hour long it felt short to me! I wanted it to go on longer and my love of music was born that day.


That clarinet playing along the way in this concerto is stunning.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Some things just take a while. Until I turned 73, I could not stand Mozart or Shostakovich. One day, out of the clear blue, it was as if I was suddenly struck by a thunderbolt. It was the Hoffmeister Quartet that transformed my feelings about Mozart, and I went on to appreciate a good deal more of his chamber music. With Shostakovich, his Seventh Symphony led me to some of his other symphonies AND his chamber music. In both instances, I had to tell my brain it was okay to appreciate now what my emotions did not for many years.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Haydn67 said:


> Some things just take a while. Until I turned 73, I could not stand Mozart or Shostakovich. One day, out of the clear blue, it was as if I was suddenly struck by a thunderbolt. It was the Hoffmeister Quartet that transformed my feelings about Mozart, and I went on to appreciate a good deal more of his chamber music. With Shostakovich, his Seventh Symphony led me to some of his other symphonies AND his chamber music. In both instances, I had to tell my brain it was okay to appreciate now what my emotions did not for many years.


Hope you've got many years left to enjoy this music.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Well, I'm still 73 and take good care of myself. Both of my parents had long lives. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball.:tiphat:


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Olias said:


> Dr. Robert Greenberg's lecture series "Concert Masterworks" is currently on sale here:
> 
> http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/concert-masterworks.html
> 
> This is an amazing series he did of several masterpieces including the Violin Concerto by Brahms (lectures 21-24). The course also includes a very detailed "word score" that really takes apart the structure of the piece. This series was the single most thing that helped me really fall in love with not only this work but all the rest of the selections covered. The video is great but you really just need the audio version.


My wife and I love the Greenberg's lecture series. We've made a habit of listening to one when we have to take a long auto trip. We currently are on Bach and the High Baroque. He has a humorous manner of storytelling, such as the way he describes the Leipzig's city council's decision to hire JS Bach after they couldn't get George Philipp Telemann, who turned down the job. They had to settle for the backup plan!


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

juliante said:


> Love his symphonies (except no. 2), worship his chamber music. But find his much loved and admired piano and violin concertos bloated and or slightly dull. What's wrong with me?


What versions have you listned to? I've certainly heard bloated & dull versions! Try Heifetz/Reiner, Serkin/Szell (#1), Richter/Leinsdorf (#2).


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