# The String Quartet SOUND



## Waehnen

I started a thread on the strings section.

https://www.talkclassical.com/73975-string-types-string-instruments.html

There I talked about my experience on the piercing sound of some string quartets. I was answered with a very well informed post talking about the volume war between instruments.

It is somewhat embarrassing to admit that this piercing sound has been the main reason for me to some extent dislike the string quartet as a genre. I have always adored many of the compositions but the genre has been a problem to me.

In piano trios and other combinations there is other timbres to balance the piercing sound, so those ensembles have not bothered me. Even string quintets appear to have a warmer sound in addition to the naturally further depth and width.

Have some of you experienced anything similar? Could you recommend string quartet ensembles with a particularly warm and rich sound?


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## tortkis

I like Stamitz Quartet's recordings of Czech composers (Dvorák, Smetana, Janácek, Martinu) which I think have smooth and warm sound. It is a good fit for romantic works, but I also like clear, straight, and maybe rather thin sound of contemporary and HIP quartets. I don't have problems with most of recent string quartet groups for new music. I am not very fond of the sound of Borodin Quartet's Shostakovich. It sounds a bit harsh and rough to me. It may be because of the recording.


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## Mandryka

Waehnen said:


> I started a thread on the strings section.
> 
> String types on string instruments -- THE SOUND
> 
> There I talked about my experience on the piercing sound of some string quartets. I was answered with a very well informed post talking about the volume war between instruments.
> 
> It is somewhat embarrassing to admit that this piercing sound has been the main reason for me to some extent dislike the string quartet as a genre. I have always adored many of the compositions but the genre has been a problem to me.
> 
> In piano trios and other combinations there is other timbres to balance the piercing sound, so those ensembles have not bothered me. Even string quintets appear to have a warmer sound in addition to the naturally further depth and width.
> 
> Have some of you experienced anything similar? Could you recommend string quartet ensembles with a particularly warm and rich sound?


Tokyo, Chiaroscuro, Ulbrich.

I think you need ensembles with good cellists.


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## Merl

Hmmm, difficult for me to answer this as I more often than not dislike the SQ sound you are explaining (lol) however it depends on the quartet being played. That homogenous, blended, soupy tone often sounds horrific to me in some quartets (eg Janacek, Bartok, etc) and incredibly schmaltzy in some romantic quartets (I'm thinking of some of the Amadeus' mushy early Schubert recordings - not all their Schubert, btw). I noticed in your other thread you mentioned the ABQ being unpleasant to your ear but I don't find their sound especially harsh. Perhaps, as you say, you just don't like the sound of string quartets. I don't like much opera, much of it just grates on my ears, but that may change one day. Who knows? 

In the early years of my classical listening I didn't do that many quartets as the sound was a little harsh for me but gradually that changed but that was partly due to 'weeding myself in' with gentler, classical era quartets (Mozart, Haydn, etc quartets). I found that familiarity brought the greatest rewards and then I branched out in my SQ listening. I'd be interested in what specific SQ pieces you like in order to find a sound you may enjoy more. Why not break yourself in with the fuller sound of a sextet or octet (Brahms / Mendelssohn)?


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## Rogerx

Quatuor Ebène /Modigliani Quartet / Alban Berg quartet . Try those specially the Modigliani Quartet.


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## Waehnen

Thanks everyone!

To make the issue more understandable, I will give one example of a warm and pleasant strinq quartet sound, and one for the sound I dislike.

*Emerson String Quartet*
Beethoven, SQ No. 7 in F, Razumovsky

*Alban Berg Quartet*
Beethoven: SQ No 14 in C# minor

The difference of these 2 in my ears is huge. Emerson sound is adorable and I just want to jump in and float. ABQ sound immediatedly gives me unpleasant vibes and even stupid thoughts like "I dislike the string quartet genre".

It is also a possibility that something in my ears simply just resonates badly for the frequencies of the ABQ recording. If other TC forumists have not experienced anything like this, then this must be something particularly about me and my "setup".


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## Mandryka

Waehnen said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> To make the issue more understandable, I will give one example of a warm and pleasant strinq quartet sound, and one for the sound I dislike.
> 
> *Emerson String Quartet*
> Beethoven, SQ No. 7 in F, Razumovsky
> 
> *Alban Berg Quartet*
> Beethoven: SQ No 14 in C# minor
> 
> The difference of these 2 in my ears is huge. Emerson sound is adorable and I just want to jump in and float. ABQ sound immediatedly gives me unpleasant vibes and even stupid thoughts like "I dislike the string quartet genre".
> 
> It is also a possibility that something in my ears simply just resonates badly for the frequencies of the ABQ recording. If other TC forumists have not experienced anything like this, then this must be something particularly about me and my "setup".


Sample Talich Quartet recordings.


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## Merl

It's really not just as simple as recommending ensembles as there's (usually) no 'one size fits all' approach contrary to the beliefs of some critics / forum members. Please don't get sucked into that "all (insert ensemble here) recordings sound like this" baloney. There's just too many variants - recording venue, style of the piece being played, ensemble's connection with the music. personnel changes, engineering and soundstage, etc. I could play you 3 or 4 recordings of the Takacs Quartet and you'd be hard-pushed to realise it's the same ensemble. Whilst some ensembles do have their quirks and characteristics its not always the case that they'll sound as you expect (the Emersons are a case in point). The Talichs were mentioned too. I have heaps of their recordings and whilst there's a certain sweetness of tone to many it's not always there, they can be acerbic and, by equal measure, dull - all depends piece to piece. A certain critic (ahem) raves about the Talich Beethoven cycle whilst ignoring the fact that certain recordings from that set sound unpleasant (not the Talich's fault) so I'd never recommend it as a cycle of LVB quartets to anyone. Even across a cycle I find big differences (especially Beethoven) as recordings are often made over a long period and there can be stylistic and interpretive changes made in the amount of time needed to record.

My advice is to ignore any fanboyism and pigeonholing and go and listen to as many recordings as you can via streaming, especially if you're buying a cycle and don't expect that cis the Bergs play in a way in Beethoven they're gonna sound the same in other repertoire. They may occasionally sound similar but often probably won't.


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## Dan Ante

Having attended many concerts over the years of St Qts etc I have never come across a battle within the quartet of any member trying to drown out any other player it just would not be tolerated. Maybe a particular recording has been badly balanced in the studio but that is a different thing altogether.


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## Waehnen

Dan Ante said:


> Having attended many concerts over the years of St Qts etc I have never come across a battle within the quartet of any member trying to drown out any other player it just would not be tolerated. Maybe a particular recording has been badly balanced in the studio but that is a different thing altogether.


The concept of volume war was mentioned as a reason for changing the structure of the strings in order to let string instruments compete with the winds. It has resulted in usage of metals as material etc. I have been wondering is the string material an explaining reason for the sometimes unpleasant sound of a quartet. It would appear this is not a factor at least in common discussion.


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## mr bob

I believe with right combination of string, type of playing, and recording, string quartet will sound relatively good. If a sound is too piercing, I think a multiband compressor of an engineer would make it sound better, if each string has it's own microphone. Maybe you should look at new recordings from 1990 and up.


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## wormcycle

I believe that The Alban Berg Quartet is the worst in terms of piercing sound. I have seen the comment here describing the ABQ sound as warm. Whatever, the violin sound in some of the recordings, Brahms for example, is simply ridiculous, and the example from Beethoven 14 by @Waehnen shows that clearly. 
Quartetto Italiano is my preferred sound the genre, Cuarteto Casals sound is very lively but not hurting my ears, Tokyo. 
And Emerson is a great example of great articulation, clarity, and full frequency range without any treble excess.


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## Merl

wormcycle said:


> I believe that The Alban Berg Quartet is the worst in terms of piercing sound.


The Alban Bergs recorded many, many classical, romantic and modern era string quartets over a course of 30+ years with 4 different line-ups, in different venues (both live and studio), with different engineers, for different record labels in analogue stereo and digital sound. Are you seriously saying that EVERY recording sounded the same with the same 'piercing sound'? Sorry but that's simply untrue and seeing as I've reviewed at least 50 of their recordings I can tell you that is really not the case. This is exactly the reason I sigh when I see comments like "the Emerson quartet recordings are always cool and detached". Really? No, it's rubbish. Please do not pigeonhole quartet ensembles. Every quartet of note I can think of has made a very good or excellent recording at some stage. Just because you don't like the sound of the ABQ in Beethoven does not mean that you won't rate their Dvorak, Smetana, Mozart, Janacek, Schumann, Stravinsky, Mendelssohn, Haydn, Rihm, Berg, Schubert, Schnittke, Urbanner, Bartok, etc.


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## Kreisler jr

The ABQ was probably tuning rather high (I couldn't tell but the Vienna Phil in the 1970s where they hailed from supposedly used 444 Hz or even higher) and they have a few rather harsh sounding recordings in the early/mid 1980s in their first EMI digital recordings. But their Teldec/Telefunken recordings from the 1970s (Berg, Haydn, Mozart, Brahms...) mostly sound quite "warm" to my ears. I don't know enough of their many EMI recordings over a long period but the strident sounding ones seem clearly exceptions that have more to do with some 1980s digital technology or poor engineering than with the ensemble's actual sound.


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## Knorf

Merl has possibly listened to more string quartets than anyone else on the planet, and done so with a remarkably open set of ears. The fact is there have been a lot of awesome quartets in history, and that there are even more at work now. And it's true that pigeon-holing them as "they always sound x" is a very bad idea. 

I tried to make a "short list" of quartets whose sound I find consistently appealing, but it quickly got very long, betraying any notion of "short." Anyway, the recommendation to listen a lot and gradually figure out what you like is sound. Also to ignore established reviewer narratives; there's way too much bullshirt there. 

For example, I let a certain, persistent narrative push me away from Emerson recordings, even though I heard them live many times and loved their playing. I've since gone back to their Beethoven (for example) and now my feeling is, why did I listen to the naysayers about this?! These are awesome, just as they were live!


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## HerbertNorman

I can find myself in what Knorf is referring to. I had some sort of list of SQs that really appealed to me, some of which I had seen live... But this list soon enough wasn't representative any more as I had found others and I fell more and more in love with the genre. I didn't like SQs in the beginning and I found them hard to listen to. Yet my father really loves them and he introduced me to a few , spurred my interest and explained me what to "look out for".

The Emerson is one of my favourites along with the Hagen Quartet and the recordings by the Borodin quartet of the Shostakovich SQs have a very special place in my heart. 
The weekly SQ thread on here , Merl's blogs, etc... have introduced me to recordings I hadn't listened to and performances by SQs which I wasn't really acquainted with. I think the way you listen and experience the work is still very personal ... I've had a conversation for example with somebody who just didn't like the Hagen Quartet's interpretations... fair enough, but I like their work ... end of discussion


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## Waehnen

Thanks for everybody’s contribution!

It is a shame that based on my idea that ”ABQ is the way to go”, I sabotaged my relationship with the string quartet genre for a long time. The piercing sound of SOME of their recordings did this to me mostly with Beethoven and Schubert.

Luckily I have now found many ensembles with a very pleasing sound. Plus the extra warm viola or cello in quintets make quintets a most balanced and beautiful ensemble in my ears.

I am happy that some others have also noticed this at least occasional problem with the ABQ. So it is not ”just me”. When the problem has been recognized and addressed, we can move around it.


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## Knorf

I fell in love with string quartets hearing them live, first. The first two that totally changed my life were Shostakovich's Eighth and the Beethoven C-sharp minor. I don't remember which quartets played these specific pieces, although I think Emerson was my first Shosty 8, but anyway hearing the likes of Emerson, Guarneri, Juilliard, Tokyo, Takacs, Fine Arts, others back then made a huge impact on me as a young listener. It was then that I started collecting quartet recordings.

I wouldn't write off all ABQ recordings, but do venture out! There's a ton of amazing listening out there for you!


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## EdwardBast

An acquaintance of mine couldn't stand the sound of violins but it was likely due to the characteristics of his hearing aids, not to the sound itself. _His_ aversion I could understand.


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## Merl

Not to dwell on the ABQs but over on the weekly quartet it's Mozart's K 589 quartet this week and the ABQs recorded it in the 70s and later for Teldec. Listening to both recordings its would be hard for most to realise its the same quartet as they are different in sound, realisation, timings and execution. As Knorf said, don't ever write an ensemble off. You'd be surprised how wrong that can be (been there, bought the video...).


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## Knorf

Merl said:


> As Knorf said, don't ever write an ensemble off. You'd be surprised how wrong that can be (been there, bought the video...).


Like most of life's most important lessons, I had to learn this one the hard way.


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## SanAntone

I have always found the string quartet to be very interesting and a pleasure to listen to. Much of it is because I like the writing for that group, heightening the independence of each instrumental voice, the interplay, and counterpoint. I probably have more recordings of string quartets than any other kind of Classical music. Solo piano is my other focus, so between the two that's probably half or more of my collection.

I've got a dozen or more sets of the Beethoven quartets, almost that many of the Bartok, six or so of Shostakovich. I have all of the Carter recordings, and the Weinberg, and my most recent fascination is with the Krzysztof Meyer quartets by the Wieniawski String Quartet on Naxos. I am always looking for new quartets and when I investigate a composer new to me if he's written string quartets that's where I begin. And if a composer hasn't written any or almost none my interest in his music won't be as strong.

About the only composer who wrote just one, Debussy's is so good, among my favorites, that it is enough. Ravel, too. I wish Alban Berg had devoted more of his talent to writing string quartets, as well as Webern. Schoenberg's are such a mixed bag, they are not among my favorites of his music. It seems he never really got into a stride with the form.

I wish there were a complete set of the Wellesz quartets. Zemlinsky has also written some great quartets.

For composers whose music I hardly listen to, if they've written a number of quartets I will have those. Milton Babbitt is one of these, also David Diamond, and Benjamin Britten (although there is more of Britten's music I collect).

The 20th century is especially rich in string quartet repertory, something for which I am exceedingly grateful. I think because the form is contrapuntal, harmony takes a back seat and non-tonal composers find the form a comfortable and traditional opportunity.


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## HerbertNorman

Knorf said:


> I fell in love with string quartets hearing them live, first. The first two that totally changed my life were Shostakovich's Eighth and the Beethoven C-sharp minor.


Something we have in common Knorf , Shostakovich 8th was the one that changed my life too regarding string quartets .
The other one in my case being Schubert's 14th SQ ...


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## Knorf

HerbertNorman said:


> Something we have in common Knorf , Shostakovich 8th was the one that changed my life too regarding string quartets .
> The other one in my case being Schubert's 14th SQ ...


Schubert's Fifteenth Quartet in G major was another early major impact in my life; I discovered it in the soundtrack to the movie _Crimes and Misdemeanors_.


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## Enthusiast

The sound that really can worry me in some SQ recordings is the loud sniffing of one or more of the players. It often seemed to afflict recordings of the Lindsays but was quite widespread. I hear it far less now, perhaps because recording techniques have changed (less close mic-ing) or maybe I just filter it out these days.


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## Merl

Enthusiast said:


> The sound that really can worry me in some SQ recordings is the loud sniffing of one or more of the players. It often seemed to afflict recordings of the Lindsays but was quite widespread. I hear it far less now, perhaps because recording techniques have changed (less close mic-ing) or maybe I just filter it out these days.


Oh, it's still about (the Ebene can be a bit sniffy) but I'm not that bothered by it these days. I get more turned off by uber-wirey, shrill violins, horrendously cavernous acoustics, overtly dry sound or recordings where I can't hear the cello. The combination of all these factors would make a recording from hell for me.


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## Enthusiast

^ Bad news, I'm afraid. There are no string quartets in hell.


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## Waehnen

Could some of you recommend me a recording where the composition, the performance and the STRING QUARTET SOUND are just amazing? Like a really really really excellent string quartet recording. Thanks!


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## Dan Ante

Enthusiast said:


> The sound that really can worry me in some SQ recordings is the loud sniffing of one or more of the players. It often seemed to afflict recordings of the Lindsays but was quite widespread. I hear it far less now, perhaps because recording techniques have changed (less close mic-ing) or maybe I just filter it out these days.


The Lindsay St Qt is one of the best ens IMO and Peter Cropper's breathing does not distract me at all from the quality of their music making it is a pity they have stopped playing.


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## Enthusiast

^ I certainly was not criticising their playing.


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## Merl

Waehnen said:


> Could some of you recommend me a recording where the composition, the performance and the STRING QUARTET SOUND are just amazing? Like a really really really excellent string quartet recording. Thanks!


Well that's all highly subjective but for me any of these....








All of it








Especially Sq15 (but it's all excellent)








DATM!








Especially the Janacek 2 (but it's all wonderful).

I picked these as they are all in the very best sound, are brilliantly performed and are wonderful pieces. As I said, it's subjective but seeing as that's the combination you wanted, Waehnen, then they are recordings that I feel fit the brief admirably.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Oh! Nobody mentioned the Leipzig Streichquartett! I think they have a delicious deep sound. Just hear anything by them


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## wormcycle

Of course it is very subjective, I like a lot everything Merl recommended I would like to add something that surprised me the most. 
Here is where the greatness of Haydn could be fully appreciated thanks to exceptional performance and recording:


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## Waehnen

Merl said:


> Well that's all highly subjective but for me any of these....
> 
> View attachment 166107
> 
> All of it
> 
> View attachment 166109
> 
> Especially Sq15 (but it's all excellent)
> 
> View attachment 166111
> 
> DATM!
> 
> View attachment 166113
> 
> Especially the Janacek 2 (but it's all wonderful).
> 
> I picked these as they are all in the very best sound, are brilliantly performed and are wonderful pieces. As I said, it's subjective but seeing as that's the combination you wanted, Waehnen, then they are recordings that I feel fit the brief admirably.


Thanks, Merl! I got myself the Schubert/Artemis to begin with. I have to give it to you, I cannot really think of a more
pleasant string quartet sound. Beautiful!!!!


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