# Got myself a fiddle



## Argus

Picked up a cheap £15 violin the other day. It's pretty poor quality, Chinese made I'd guess, but it stays in tune and is playable, so I can't complain for the price. The only problem is I haven't tuned it up to standard violin tuning because it feels like something is going to break, so I've tuned it down a fifth to viola (which I would have got instead if I found a cheap one) tuning (C-G-D-A) for the time being. I might be being over cautious but the pegs start slipping when I get it within even a major second of standard violin tuning. Obviously, this means the resonant frequency of the soundbox doesn't match the strings, so the sound isn't as loud or as brilliant as it should be, but better than breaking all my strings. Slack strings over snapped strings

I'll add I have no aspirations of actually being any kind of violinist, I just picked up the instrument to better understand how it works. Now I've got it I may as well pick up some basic technique so I can have a muck around.

I've tried playing it the normal way and while it feels better bowing this way, I find my left hand struggles to move along the strings with precision. Instead if I play it upright (like a wee cello except the lower bout rest on my right thigh ) and bow using a German bow grip, my left hand feels more comfortable, although positioning the instrument like this is slightly more awkward it feels better on my neck and back. Is it feasible to play it like this?









(That's a viola with an elongated neck by the way)

I couldn't find my camera so here's some crappy phone pics.


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## emiellucifuge

I had violin lessons for a year so I know what you mean about the left hand. Try and keep your hand firmly against the head.


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## Chris

No offence, but sharing a house with someone learning the violin sounds like hard work


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## Meaghan

Here's somebody who holds the violin like a cello:


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## Argus

Chris said:


> No offence, but sharing a house with someone learning the violin sounds like hard work


Well I already play guitar, bass, lap steel, keys plus some other instruments, but I think nothing is as hellish as a badly played violin. And a well played one isn't much better sometimes.


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## Argus

Meaghan said:


> Here's somebody who holds the violin like a cello:


It does look strange, but it just feels better to me. My wrists are straighter, the violin is more stable, my elbows are closer to my body.

That guy's a cellist so it must just make sense to him.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

We are all waiting for Argus to perform a Bach solo violin partita.


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## Chris

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> We are all waiting for Argus to perform a Bach solo violin partita.


The D Minor please


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## Argus

Chris said:


> The D Minor please


I'll get on that soon, say in the next 3-4 years.

In the meantime, I could probably knock up a decent rendition of this, with a bit of multitracking/overdubbing:






This is the kind of thing I'd (realistically) like to be doing with a violin:






I doubt I'll ever acquire the skills necessary but Carnatic violin is lovely:


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## GraemeG

The strings won't snap.

And as long as the soundpost is still standing, the fiddle won't break either.

Perhaps you should try to find an old viola d'amore or something, rather than trying to play a violin tuned like a viola with a cello technique...
GG


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## Argus

GraemeG said:


> The strings won't snap.
> 
> And as long as the soundpost is still standing, the fiddle won't break either.
> 
> Perhaps you should try to find an old viola d'amore or something, rather than trying to play a violin tuned like a viola with a cello technique...
> GG


If I could find a dirt cheap one I'd snap up a cello or a viola d'amore, or even things like an erhu or sarangi, but there's also the problem with finding places to store all these instruments, especially big things like cellos. I've already got a couple of guitars and a keyboard stored away at my mum's house because I'm running out of room here.

I think you might be right about tuning up. The low G which I have at C sounds quite muddy although the other strings aren't too bad. Also, the pegs slip by themselves when it gets up to pitch. I don't know what guage the strings are so unless they're really heavy ones it shouldn't snap (hopefully) I'll wait until I pick up a spare set before attempting, mind.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Argus said:


> Picked up a cheap £15 violin the other day. It's pretty poor quality, Chinese made I'd guess, but it stays in tune and is playable, so I can't complain for the price. The only problem is I haven't tuned it up to standard violin tuning because it feels like something is going to break, so I've tuned it down a fifth to viola (which I would have got instead if I found a cheap one) tuning (C-G-D-A) for the time being. I might be being over cautious but the pegs start slipping when I get it within even a major second of standard violin tuning. Obviously, this means the resonant frequency of the soundbox doesn't match the strings, so the sound isn't as loud or as brilliant as it should be, but better than breaking all my strings. Slack strings over snapped strings
> 
> I'll add I have no aspirations of actually being any kind of violinist, I just picked up the instrument to better understand how it works. Now I've got it I may as well pick up some basic technique so I can have a muck around.
> 
> I've tried playing it the normal way and while it feels better bowing this way, I find my left hand struggles to move along the strings with precision. Instead if I play it upright (like a wee cello except the lower bout rest on my right thigh ) and bow using a German bow grip, my left hand feels more comfortable, although positioning the instrument like this is slightly more awkward it feels better on my neck and back. Is it feasible to play it like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (That's a viola with an elongated neck by the way)
> 
> I couldn't find my camera so here's some crappy phone pics.


LOL, Why didnt you get a Cello?


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## Argus

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> LOL, Why didnt you get a Cello?


Find me a mini cello for £15 and I'll get it.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Argus said:


> Find me a mini cello for £15 and I'll get it.


That would be a daunting task...


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## Meaghan

Argus said:


> If I could find a dirt cheap one I'd snap up a cello or a viola d'amore, or even things like an erhu or sarangi


If you went to my college, you could get a free viol (temporarily), as well as lessons, due to the school having a bunch of them lying around and one of the music professors (cellist/early music specialist) wanting to start a viol consort. It's a pretty sweet deal, actually.


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## GraemeG

Argus said:


> Also, the pegs slip by themselves when it gets up to pitch. I don't know what guage the strings are so unless they're really heavy ones it shouldn't snap (hopefully) I'll wait until I pick up a spare set before attempting, mind.


If the pegs have been over-lubricated,, a clean up, and forcing them in until they are mich tighter should fix things.
I presumed the instrument was strung with violin strings, of course, not something else...
GG


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## Argus

GraemeG said:


> If the pegs have been over-lubricated,, a clean up, and forcing them in until they are mich tighter should fix things.
> I presumed the instrument was strung with violin strings, of course, not something else...
> GG


Well, the A string gave me a bit of jip but now it seems to be holding it's pitch better. I played for about an hour in standard tuning and the pitch only dropped about 20-30 cents, and the other strings only flattened slightly.

At this pitch the strings are louder and more powerful but I'm also getting more unwanted bow noise especially on the E string around or past the octave/mid-point. I also need to remember I don't have to change bow direction for every different tone, and when I do remember to play legato my left hand wants to hammer-on/pull-off like on a guitar.

Also, is it possible to bow a continuous tone for a long period (30+ secs) without the changes in bow direction becoming audible?


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## GraemeG

As it's under your chin, you hear more bow noise in the upper half of every string. Doesn't necessarily translate to your 'audience'.

A little less tension from your wrist at the time of the bow change will help. Although, that tends to work only if the long held note is _piano_.
You don't often come across writing that wants a violin to hold the same pitch for a long period of time at loud volume; and if you do, changes in bow stroke aren't going to ruin the mood.
GG


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## Argus

My E string finally snapped. I could just tell it wasn't up to the task of holding that tension.

Now what strings should I opt for? I'm not going to go crazy and buy some Dominant or Helicore strings that cost over twice the price of the fiddle. There are some Rotosound strings that are pretty cheap. I've used Rotosound on my bass before and they were pretty good quality but I have no idea what they'll be like for violin.

So why do violin strings cost so much anyway? I use D'Addario and DR strings on my guitars and Framus on my lap steel and they all cost no more than a fiver, plus they serve me well (I can't remember breaking a D'Addario compared to a handful of broken Ernie Ball's). Is there that much difference in timbre and reliability between the best and worst violin strings?


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## Potiphera

oops. double entry


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## Potiphera

Chris said:


> No offence, but sharing a house with someone learning the violin sounds like hard work


Actually, if you know your parish priest well, he will let you use the Church hall. All that wonderful space to yourself!


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