# Starting a classical collection from scratch



## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Hi all,

This is a bit of an introduction post. I'm Trevor, a 45 year old guy from Toronto, Canada. I'm traditionally a jazz & blues fan, but lately I've been obsessed with classical music. I'm learning the genre(s) from scratch as my family and friends aren't really fans. I'm making use of online resources (thanks Craig Wright!), magazines and the various NPR album guides.

Here's where I'm at so far: http://i.imgur.com/vE1VNcD.jpg

I've never been to a classical event before, but there's a few coming up that I'm going to try to get to.

March - Orpheus Chamber Orchestra (Bach, Symphony in G minor, Mozart, Violin Concerto No. 3 in G Major, Beethoven Romance for Violin and Orchestra No. 1 in G Major, Ravel:	Le Tombeau de Couperin)

April - Bach: Brandenburg Concertos

May - Bizet: Carmen

June - Beethoven: Symphony #3

Anyway, good to be here and I'm looking forward to learning a lot from you all.

Cheers!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Looks like you're already a heavyweight collector, what with the Ring Cycle, Szell's Beethoven cycle, etc. If you haven't already you might enjoy the Current Listening thread (Vol. III at the moment) for an avalanche of suggestions and feeling connected. Careful though -- it's addictive.

Welcome to the forums. We look forward to your input too.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

A lot of people started into classical with scratchy old LPs. Welcome to the club!


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Hi Trevor,

Welcome to these boards and to the world of classical music. I envy you the voyage of endless discovery on which you've embarked. At this relatively early stage, follow up on music which appeals to you and make use of classical radio stations to widen your horizons as you go. I'm sure the denizens of this site will be happy to offer more specific recommendations if you need them.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Your book collection also looks as interesting as the music.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

MarkW said:


> A lot of people started into classical with scratchy old LPs. Welcome to the club!


Oh, I'm buying a lot of those, too! There's a couple of thrift and second-hand stores near my apartment so I've managed to pull some gems.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Richard8655 said:


> Your book collection also looks as interesting as the music.


Haha, you're only saying that because you can't see all my Edgar Rice Burroughs paperbacks in that shot.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Welcome to TC, like Weston noted you've already got some great pieces in your collection already. Did you listen before you purchased or how did you select what you have? For my part to answer your OP, I'd suggest some Mahler (starting with Symphonies 2 or 4 and moving on to 6 & 9 which are my favorites) & some Shostakovich for good measure maybe his 2 piano concertos, his cello concerto no. 1, any of these symphonies: 1,5,9,10, 15 (for starters) or string quartet no. 2,8, or 9 (Shostakovich is one of my favorite Russians) oh yeah and since your a jazz fan, his jazz suites. 

Anyway happy to give more recommendations as requested, when in doubt one can never have too much Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart. Happy listening...


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd use tons of Spotify for trying out music and recordings while it's still free (you may have a couple of months, maybe more). Youtube as well if there's anything left there anymore. Building a collection only by reading magazine reviews and deferring to popular wisdom is a certain path to a lot of wasted shelf space.

Another thing I've learned as a collector is you should keep pushing your boundaries and put effort into building appreciation for strange modernist music and such things. You'll probably never start liking all of Mozart's or Haydn's hack work if it doesn't appeal to you immediately, but when we're talking about an unfamiliar idiom, like early Renaissance or late Schoenberg, it's a good idea to keep an open mind.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

BourbonBlues said:


> Oh, I'm buying a lot of those, too! There's a couple of thrift and second-hand stores near my apartment so I've managed to pull some gems.


How interesting. Welcome to the forum, and to the world of classical music too.

Hopefully, you've already found that old classical LPs are in excellent shape, often mint, and at bargain prices. Unlike the rock and jazz genres classical LPs aren't back in fashion... yet! Sooner or later you'll find an LP collection going for a song, and your life, and your living space, will be changed.

My advice: Go to concerts! Particularly for the major symphonies. You can learn so much about a piece from seeing it live.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Fugue Meister said:


> Welcome to TC, like Weston noted you've already got some great pieces in your collection already. Did you listen before you purchased or how did you select what you have? For my part to answer your OP, I'd suggest some Mahler (starting with Symphonies 2 or 4 and moving on to 6 & 9 which are my favorites) & some Shostakovich for good measure maybe his 2 piano concertos, his cello concerto no. 1, any of these symphonies: 1,5,9,10, 15 (for starters) or string quartet no. 2,8, or 9 (Shostakovich is one of my favorite Russians) oh yeah and since your a jazz fan, his jazz suites.
> 
> Anyway happy to give more recommendations as requested, when in doubt one can never have too much Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart. Happy listening...


I kinda started as a lark. I came across this article http://www.forbes.com/sites/laursonpieler/2013/03/05/sound_adivce_how-to-build-a-top-quality-classical-music-library-for-100/#72b7ba2070f9 and decided to buy all the CDs listed just to have classical represented in my library. I liked them so much that I purchased the NPR Curious Listener guides to classical and opera and I've been buying all their recommended CDs (more or less in the order they are listed - jumped ahead when I saw a good deal).

Thanks for the recommendations! I'll keep a log of them and add them to the buy pile.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

BourbonBlues said:


> I kinda started as a lark. I came across this article http://www.forbes.com/sites/laursonpieler/2013/03/05/sound_adivce_how-to-build-a-top-quality-classical-music-library-for-100/#72b7ba2070f9 and decided to buy all the CDs listed just to have classical represented in my library. I liked them so much that I purchased the NPR Curious Listener guides to classical and opera and I've been buying all their recommended CDs (more or less in the order they are listed - jumped ahead when I saw a good deal).
> 
> Thanks for the recommendations! I'll keep a log of them and add them to the buy pile.


Fair enough but do you listen to the music before you purchase or just pull that trigger without hearing a note? I'd hope you'd at least go to youtube and sample the suggestions first... You can look for a specific recording (or performer/ conductor).

As an afterthought I should mention Glenn Gould, he's my favorite interpreter of Bach keyboard stuff and his other recordings are always interesting and fresh.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

I usually check it out before buying, but I want to have the basic canon represented as a starting point. The CD recommendation portion of the guides are quick small (just over 50 in the classical book, just over 30 in the opera). I'm about half way through so it will only be a few months before I'm finished the "starter kit". After that, I'll start exploring deeper into the composers I love the most (right now, that's Dvorak, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky).

In the meantime, I'm going to go to as many concerts as possible, using internet resources to prep for the events.

I'm also doing Craig Wright's online Listening to Music course. I'm learning a lot from that.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

BB, I welcome you also. Let me recommend piano concertos and, to a lesser extent, violin concertos, as a good entry portal to classical music. They offer several distinct advantages: A) relative brevity--many are 20 minutes or less, yet offer a rich, fulfilling experience; B) they are usually chock full of wonderful melodies and also strong contrasts within and between movements; C) the concerto format offers rich interplay between orchestra and soloist--they play in parallel; they play in series; they play together, separately; they each comment upon the other's contribution; D) they offer often a full display of the soloist's skills as virtuoso of his/her instrument. Many of the great composers were proficient, even virtuoso, keyboardists--Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Bartok, Prokofiev, Shostakovich--and lavished great care upon their efforts in the genre. The Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 would be a hyperexample of just about everything good that one can expect in an exciting, enriching, glad-to-be-alive piano concerto. If you look for the old RCA Victor CD with Van Cliburn playing and Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago Symphony, you will get both a superb reading of the Prokofiev and a super version of the Schumann concerto, which is itself a magical, joyful piece of music. The sound quality is excellent throughout.

Best wishes on your musical journey!


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Chordalrock said:


> I'd use tons of Spotify for trying out music and recordings while it's still free (you may have a couple of months, maybe more). Youtube as well if there's anything left there anymore. Building a collection only by reading magazine reviews and deferring to popular wisdom is a certain path to a lot of wasted shelf space.
> 
> Another thing I've learned as a collector is you should keep pushing your boundaries and put effort into building appreciation for strange modernist music and such things. You'll probably never start liking all of Mozart's or Haydn's hack work if it doesn't appeal to you immediately, but when we're talking about an unfamiliar idiom, like early Renaissance or late Schoenberg, it's a good idea to keep an open mind.


Agreed. My first foray into Classical was a bit like the OP's. I tried to "collect" all the Great Works, etc. It didn't take. Then I just worried about my own tastes, and it became much more rewarding.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2016)

Hi.
I only started this classical malarky coupla years or so ago, after 40 years of rock, blues, jazz, indigenous.
Definetely recommend FREE Spotify and Youtube.
Enjoy! Remember it's about you enjoying what you hear, not building a collection.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Orpheus Chamber Orchestra is one of the world's top ensembles. Hope you can make it! The Ravel piece is fantastic!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

BourbonBlues said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is a bit of an introduction post. I'm Trevor, a 45 year old guy from Toronto, Canada. I'm traditionally a jazz & blues fan, but lately I've been obsessed with classical music. I'm learning the genre(s) from scratch as my family and friends aren't really fans. I'm making use of online resources (thanks Craig Wright!), magazines and the various NPR album guides.
> 
> ...


Pretty good start. I haven't gone through the entire thread so I am not sure if you have a taste for late 19th-20th/21st century music, but I'd recommend acquiring the relatively small, affordable box sets by Debussy, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Ligeti, Boulez, Lutosławski, Stravinsky, Bartók, Xenakis and Messiaen.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

BourbonBlues said:


> Haha, you're only saying that because you can't see all my Edgar Rice Burroughs paperbacks in that shot.


Ha ha, I have not heard that author mentioned in ages. Funny because I read every single Tarzan book and every single book in the Carson of Venus series.

My thought is to pick up one of those massive 60-87 disk Beethoven sets and dig in. There is a 60 disk set available for about $40 used on Amazon that I saw the other day.

I got back into classical in 2011 and quickly went from instrumental to religious vocal works to opera and am heavily embedded in opera now.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Ha ha, I have not heard that author mentioned in ages. Funny because I read every single Tarzan book and every single book in the Carson of Venus series.
> 
> My thought is to pick up one of those massive 60-87 disk Beethoven sets and dig in. There is a 60 disk set available for about $40 used on Amazon that I saw the other day.
> 
> I got back into classical in 2011 and quickly went from instrumental to religious vocal works to opera and am heavily embedded in opera now.


Something that size would be far too intimidating for me. I'd never finish it. The 16 disc Wagner set is about as heavy as I'd be willing to go, I think.

My first live opera experience is in a couple of months. Looking forward to that, even though I'll be back in the cheap seats.


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## Holmes168 (Mar 8, 2016)

Very good question- I am also brand new to this forum and classical music. I was literally going to ask WHERE DO I START! There is so much music and I have zero knowledge. I really started listening to classical music 2 weekends ago. I've listened to talk radio for 25 years and never appappreciated music in any form. However- in growing/expanding my horizons I gave Beethoven a try and loved it. I just need to know- do you organize your development around an era, type of music or composer. I'm very organized in my approach to life and want to have a plan to learn not just jumping around.

How do I start my path of appreciation?


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Welcome to TC, BB. As others have said, I wouldn't take a huge amount of stock in prepackaged recommendations. My interest in classical started by listening to the radio and when I heard something I liked I obtained a record of it. I still think that's valid today as radio (whether broadcast or an online channel) will expose you to a wide variety of styles and if you take note of the composer and piece, you'll soon know what appeals to you the most.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Holmes168 said:


> Very good question- I am also brand new to this forum and classical music. I was literally going to ask WHERE DO I START! There is so much music and I have zero knowledge. I really started listening to classical music 2 weekends ago. I've listened to talk radio for 25 years and never appappreciated music in any form. However- in growing/expanding my horizons I gave Beethoven a try and loved it. I just need to know- do you organize your development around an era, type of music or composer. I'm very organized in my approach to life and want to have a plan to learn not just jumping around.
> 
> How do I start my path of appreciation?


One thing I'd suggest, is be careful about taking on too much at first to the point where your not really listening to it carefully. It's so easy to find more music to listen to online, that it might cause you to give up on some works too quickly. When I started, I went slowly and listened to my CDs to death.

Personally, I tried to go for variety at first, trying to at least sample every era, etc. But I don't think there's any rule about this. If you want to just slowly branch out from Beethoven (e.g., going both earlier to Haydn and later to Brahms), then that's fine. I'd recommend not worrying so much as to whether you've heard the pieces your "supposed to" hear.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Holmes168 said:


> Very good question- I am also brand new to this forum and classical music. I was literally going to ask WHERE DO I START! There is so much music and I have zero knowledge. I really started listening to classical music 2 weekends ago. I've listened to talk radio for 25 years and never appappreciated music in any form. However- in growing/expanding my horizons I gave Beethoven a try and loved it. I just need to know- do you organize your development around an era, type of music or composer. I'm very organized in my approach to life and want to have a plan to learn not just jumping around.
> 
> How do I start my path of appreciation?


I recommend finding this book: http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Listeners-Guide-Classical-Music/dp/0399527958/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1457548192&sr=8-4&keywords=npr+classical and watching this documentary series on YouTube: 




Worked for me!


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

You may want to start with a composer's later works, as they will presumably have honed their skills over a lifetime. Certainly, that approach works with Mozart. For music, unlike books or other storytelling media, there is little benefit from going in chronological order.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

bharbeke said:


> You may want to start with a composer's later works, as they will presumably have honed their skills over a lifetime. Certainly, that approach works with Mozart. For music, unlike books or other storytelling media, there is little benefit from going in chronological order.


This is great advice. I've seen several newcomers who think that the way to discover a composer is by listening through a whole set of their works in short succession (all of the symphonies of Beethoven, all of the string quartets of Bartok). Not only is this a great way to have your explorations end in frustration, you're often starting off with the lesser works.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

BourbonBlues said:


> Something that size would be far too intimidating for me. I'd never finish it. The 16 disc Wagner set is about as heavy as I'd be willing to go, I think.
> 
> My first live opera experience is in a couple of months. Looking forward to that, even though I'll be back in the cheap seats.


Hmmm, well you can pick up a Beethoven symphony set (all 9) used for around <$10 pretty easily. If you want to scale down from that, just get a good single disk set of Beethoven's 5th and 6th.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

BourbonBlues said:


> Haha, you're only saying that because you can't see all my Edgar Rice Burroughs paperbacks in that shot.


Actually Edgar Rice Burroughs is respected in the literary community. His Tarzan series is seen in post literary revival terms, i.e., newly appreciated.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

There have been a lot of fine recommendations on this thread. However, I just think it's best for each person to find his/her own path to grow a collection. For better or worse, I rarely auditioned recordings before most of my acquisitions. I would go to the record store and keep buying stuff. It didn't take long for me to reach conclusions as to what was best for my tastes.

So my best advice is to not pay much attention to how others go about their acquisition regimen. Create your own and move forward.


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Hmmm, well you can pick up a Beethoven symphony set (all 9) used for around <$10 pretty easily. If you want to scale down from that, just get a good single disk set of Beethoven's 5th and 6th.


I have the Szell/Cleveland Orchestra discount box set with all nine and I plan to get the Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic set as well.

Beethoven's 3rd will be my first live symphony. The concert is in early June. Should be a blast!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

BourbonBlues said:


> Beethoven's 3rd will be my first live symphony.


Excellent place to start. I finally saw a live Beethoven symphony last fall, the 5th, and am going to the 6th next month.

Bernstein and Szell are great cycles. There are a number of Beethoven symphony cycle recommendations threads on this site you may want to visit.

Here is one: http://www.talkclassical.com/32927-beethoven-symphonies-set-recommendation.html


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## BourbonBlues (Mar 5, 2016)

That's great, Florestan. Thanks!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

I can seriously help you out here, cut through all the BS, just start right here:

http://www.amazon.com/Idiots-Guide-Classical-Music-Mus/dp/B000003FPT

These are only previews of the pieces, but that doesn't matter, its enough to get an idea of what you like, and what you like is all that matters. What you need is exposure to the music.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Welcome to the forum ! I was already a huge classical music fan a few years before you were born, which makes me feel like a dinosaur ! I discovered classical music pretty much on my own when I was about 13 and immediately became a classical music freak . 
In a way, I envy you,because you're still discovering a lot of great classical music which I know backwards and forwards . How many times can you hear the Beethoven fifth without becoming jaded .
Fortunately, there's still a staggering amount of classical music I haven't heard by lesser known but interesting composers . 
Nobody will ever get to hear it all ! As they say, the more you know about a subject, the more you realize how much you don't know ! I have no idea how many symphonies, operas, concertos, sonatas, oratorios, cantatas, art songs,string quartets etc I've heard over the years , but there's still so much I have yet to hear . And its all out there on CD, DVDs, and youtube etc for anyone to experience .
Just for starters , here are some essential works for anyone who loves classical music by category .
Symphonies : Haydn,Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelsohn, Schumann, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Franck, Saint-Saens, Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius, Elgar , Vaughan Williams, Nielsen,
Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich , Berlioz, Copland , etc.
Concertos for various instruments , piano, violin, cello and others : Bach, Haydn,Mozart, Beethoven, 
Brahms, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Grieg, Sibelius, Rachmaninov, Bartok, 
Saint-Saens, Elgar, Prokofiev, Shostakovich , Chopin, Dvorak, Bruch, Samuel Barber, etc .
Miscellaneous orchestral works; symphonic poems etc . Liszt, Dvorak, Richard Strauss, Holst, Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky , Saint-Saens, Smetana, Prokofiev, Ravel, Debussy , Berlioz, Hindemith, Respighi,
Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Janacek, Sibelius, Stravinsky,Prokofiev, Ives, Borodin, etc
Chamber music ; string quartets, etc and works for a variety of small ensembles : Haydn,Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak, Bartok, Shostakovich, etc.
Art songs : Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Wolf , etc.
Piano works : Sonatas , etc . Bach, Haydn,Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Rachmaninov, 
Chopin, Debussy, Ravel, Faure, Bartok, Liszt, Prokofiev etc.
Operas : Mozart, Handel, Monteverdi , Rameau, Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti, Beethoven, Weber, 
Verdi, Puccini, Wagner, Richard Strauss , Gounod, Massenet, Offenbach, Johann Strauss jr, 
Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky , Rimsky-Korsakov, Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek, Borodin , Berlioz, 
Mascagni, Leoncavallo, Boito, Gershwin, Britten , Debussy , Prokofiev, Shostakovich , Berg, 
Barber, Menotti, etc
Oratorios masses, Requiems, cantatas and other choral works : Handel, Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Orff, Cherubini, Dvorak, etc.
I hope this list isn't too intimidating !!!


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## Centropolis (Jul 8, 2013)

BourbonBlues said:


> Oh, I'm buying a lot of those, too! There's a couple of thrift and second-hand stores near my apartment so I've managed to pull some gems.


So you're the one who's been buying up all the used classical music CDs and vinyls from thrift shops eh? No wonder I haven't been able to find any recently!  I am just joking. I am from Toronto as well. Welcome to the club.

I am relatively new myself so I am no expert compare most people here. But it does look like you already have some core stuff already. Goldberg, Rite of Soring, Trout, Beethvoen symphonies.

One suggestion I have is to make sure you've listened to the different types of classical music first before you jump in and buy too many albums in a genre that you won't end up liking. For example, I haven't bought many operas because I've found out from the beginning that I don't like them. That's not to say I will never listen to them (I've got two sets of Ring as well).

BTW, I won't guaranteed it will work but I've got a promo code for 25% off TSO concerts. If you want, PM me ASAP (expires in 3 days) and I can send you and see if it'll work for you.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

My suggestion would be check through the basic repertoire for whatever you like. Nornally, beginners tend to be attracted by works with great melody lines, e.g. those by Tchaikovsky, Chopin, Strauss family, Dvorak, Mozart etc. Later, when they sense that there are something else in the music, they go a big step further. Then, my recommendation would be works by Bach, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner etc.

Have a happy time here.


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