# Extreme Newbie Needs YOUR HELP!



## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Hi, I am very new to the classical music quadrant!

I need some suggestion to some very melodious music filled through most of the music pieces playing length...

Please help!

Thank you so much!

(I have been through with Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Chopin, and Bach and love many of their music pieces.)


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

UniverseInfinite said:


> Hi, I am very new to the classical music quadrant!
> 
> I need some suggestion to some very melodious music filled through most of the music pieces playing length...
> 
> ...


Try Schubert then - chamber music, piano pieces, symphonies, songs.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

UniverseInfinite said:


> Hi, I am very new to the classical music quadrant!
> 
> I need some suggestion to some very melodious music filled through most of the music pieces playing length...
> 
> ...


Two words for you: Pierre Boulez.


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Thank you, starry and Tapkaara sincerely!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Ignore the suggestion of Pierre Boulez ---- he's not a great composer by any stretch of the word.

Anyway allow me to give you some suggestions:

Ravel, Berlioz, Debussy, Delius, Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Bax, Stravinsky, Hindemith, Shostakovich, Nielsen, Sibelius, Mendelssohn, Smetana, Dvorak, Suk, Brahms, Poulenc, Bartok, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Scriabin, Bliss, Grieg, Gershwin, Copland, Barber, Holst, Britten, Mahler, Bruckner, Saint-Saens, Chausson, Roussel, and this list could go on forever, but there are a few to check out.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

> Ignore the suggestion of Pierre Boulez ---- he's not a great composer by any stretch of the word.


Erm. Excuse me? Boulez is the greatest living musician and composer. His genius is unquantifiable.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> Erm. Excuse me? Boulez is the greatest living musician and composer. His genius is unquantifiable.


Negative. I find him unlistenable and not melodic. I do feel, however, that he's a great conductor. That's about all he is.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

No, he's not melodic, thankfully, his music has far surpassed the mere banalities of melody..


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> No, he's not melodic, thankfully, his music has far surpassed the mere banalities of melody..


I still don't like his music, so there's really not much convincing you can do. It's unlistenable, pure mathematical, serialist garbage.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Whether Boulez is a great composer or not is beside the point since our 'extreme newbie' asked for 'very melodious music.'


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> Whether Boulez is a great composer or not is beside the point since our 'extreme newbie' asked for 'very melodious music.'


jhar26, I gave my recommendations.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Mirror Image said:


> I still don't like his music, so there's really not much convincing you can do. It's unlistenable, pure mathematical, serialist garbage.


Far from it - Le Marteau san Maitre draws inspiration from a rich number of cultures. The Xylorimba recalls the African Balafon, the Vibraphone Balinese Gamelan, and the Guitar the Japanese Koto etc.

Only when one is familiar with the treatment of emotion in these various cultures can you dismiss him as a composer (needless to say, no musicologist would dare dismiss such a towering genius). To assert that his music is purely mathematical is just misinformed - it bares very little relation to maths - and as for unlistenable, well, that's purely subjective. I find Plato's Republic unreadable in its original form because I am unable to read greek - some may find Shakespeare's Hamlet unreadable because they are unable to comprehend the complexity of his ideas or subtlety of language.. do you see?


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I think "influence by the Javanese gamelan" is so cliche in classical music. EVERYONE is ifluenced by the Javanese gamelan.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> Far from it - Le Marteau san Maitre draws inspiration from a rich number of cultures. The Xylorimba recalls the African Balafon, the Vibraphone Balinese Gamelan, and the Guitar the Japanese Koto etc.
> 
> Only when one is familiar with the treatment of emotion in these various cultures can you dismiss him as a composer (needless to say, no musicologist would dare dismiss such a towering genius). To assert that his music is purely mathematical is just misinformed - it bares very little relation to maths - and as for unlistenable, well, that's purely subjective. I find Plato's Republic unreadable in its original form because I am unable to read greek - some may find Shakespeare's Hamlet unreadable because they are unable to comprehend the complexity of his ideas or subtlety of language.. do you see?


I don't think it's a matter understanding his musical language. I can assure you that I understand it quite clearly. Do I like it? No, I don't. I'm a Romantic and you should know this by now Bach. Boulez composes dissonant music that goes nowhere and means nothing to me, so spare me the lecture as I understand him quite clearly. I feel the same way about Berg, Messiaen, Lygeti, Webern, 12-tone Schoenberg, etc. These composers don't do anything for me emotionally or intellectually. I will NEVER come around to any of them, because I don't like what they represent: non-melodic, non-harmonic, mathematical, serialism that doesn't have any musical content and goes against what I believe what makes music good to me.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Oh I see you didn't mention Haydn either, he's a great melodist too. Good place to start the London symphonies 93 - 104. For Schubert the B Flat Piano Trio, the moments musicals and impromptus for piano and most cd compilations of his songs are a place to start.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

The music of Hindemith and Max Reger is more mathematical than Boulez and Berg - I'm just trying to get you to assess your taste (or your openness to change) I know what you like, I know what your comfort zone is, I'm not that forgetful..  

Modernists and serialists stand for much the same as romantics - the creation of expressive music. 

I don't know how you can like Stravinsky, for example, and completely dismiss Messiaen. Both are modernists and not serialists. (with the exception of Stravinsky's late work) 

You like music which is not romantic. You've expressed a love for Stravinsky and Hindemith and I'm wondering where that will take you.. perhaps to Birtwistle.. have you ever tried any Birtwistle?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> The music of Hindemith and Max Reger is more mathematical than Boulez and Berg - I'm just trying to get you to assess your taste (or your openness to change) I know what you like, I know what your comfort zone is, I'm not that forgetful..
> 
> Modernists and serialists stand for much the same as romantics - the creation of expressive music.
> 
> ...


I like some 20th Century music that is no lie, but I do not enjoy music that sounds like nonsense to me, which I'm afraid the music of Boulez, Berg, Webern, 12-tone Schoenberg, Lygeti, etc. are all in this category.

The music of Hindemith and Stravinsky are tonal. We're talking about works that are atonal.

I have not heard Birtwistle, but if he's anything like Boulez, then I'm afraid I'll pass.


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Wow, what a discussion!
Thank you all!
Dear starry, thank you for your suggestion! Thank you!
Dear fellow members, if you would provide specific titles/names of some very melodious music, I would appreciate even more...and more!

Thank you all, thank you!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Bach said:


> Modernists and serialists stand for much the same as romantics - the creation of expressive music.


This is a great quote, sums up why I like music beyond the Romantics to today's. It's good to be flexible, but maybe Boulez is a little too daunting for a beginner? I mean I love Varese, Berg, Messiaen, but I wouldn't really recommend them to someone just starting out in classical...

*But getting more on-topic*: UniversalInfinite says s/he'd like some specific works that are melodious. Well, here are some composers which Mirror Image suggested & I would second to a beginner:

Ravel: Rhapsodie Espagnole
Debussy: La Mer; Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 2 'A London Symphony'
Elgar - Serenade for Strings
Hindemith - Mathis der maler symphony
Sibelius - Lemminkainen Suite
Mendelssohn - Symphony Nos. 3 'Scottish' & 4 'Italian;' A Midsummer Night's Dream
Berlioz - Harold in Italy; Le Nuits d'Ete; overtures
Dvorak - Violin, Piano, Cello concertos, Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9; Piano Quintet 'Dumka'
Prokofiev - Symphonies Nos. 1 'Classical' & 5
Brahms - Symphonies; overtures (Tragic, Academic Festival), Hungarian Dances
Grieg - Peer Gynt Suites, Piano Concerto
Barber - Adagio for Strings; Violin Concerto
Holst - The Planets
Britten - Simple Symphony; Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge

& I would second Schubert, who was probably the most melodious of them all. Works by him like Symphonies Nos. 5 & 8 'Unfinished;' Rosamunde ballet music, String Quartets Nos. 13 & 14, String Quintet & Piano Quintet 'Trout.'

& I would also second listening to Haydn's London symphonies, mentioned above...


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Ralph Vaughan Williams*

Well,

Can't join in the argument as I know not Mr. Boulez. Shame on me, another one I have missed in my collection. Bach thanks for pointing him out to me. I like to try and be exposed to new things. Now I got something to chew on....

I do love Vaughan Williams...my recommendation...

Fantasia On Greensleeves
The Lark Ascending
Fantasia On a Theme By Thomas Tallis


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

A lot of responses in this thread have apparently failed to recognise the obvious jocular nature of post #3.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Toccata said:


> A lot of responses in this thread have apparently failed to recognise the obvious jocular nature of post #3.


Some indeed catch on quicker than others!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Toccata said:


> A lot of responses in this thread have apparently failed to recognise the obvious jocular nature of post #3.


The is the Internet, Toccata, where you can't tell when somebody is joking or not. It's not like I can see Tapkaara's body language and face when he made that joke, but now I know, that he was being sarcastic.

Anyway, it's a simple misunderstanding.


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Understanding and acknowledgment -- life, it is.

Thank you all, dear fellow members!

Thank you, Andre, for your suggestion! UniverseInfinite have tried 95% of those of your suggestion. 

Thank you, Mirror Image.

UniverseInfinite has a true passion in the pursuit of "true melody"!


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> The is the Internet, Toccata, where you can't tell when somebody is joking or not. It's not like I can see Tapkaara's body language and face when he made that joke, but now I know, that he was being sarcastic.
> 
> Anyway, it's a simple misunderstanding.


If somebody asks for advice on "very melodious" music and the suggestion is made of Pierre Boulez then it should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about classical music that it must be intended as a joke, as Boulez's music is the antithesis of a melodious style.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

UniverseInfinite said:


> UniverseInfinite has a true passion in the pursuit of "true melody"!


I really love melody as well, that's why I also like so much popular music. Of course there's room for other types of music (including Boulez, I see that I've enjoyed 'Pli Selon Pli' in the past), but no way is melody banal as was said here. All music (even less mainstream) needs interesting musical ideas that grab you otherwise there is the danger it could just be too primitive being just about rhythm or timbre alone.

To show someone is being lighthearted with a remark the use of smiles helps (such as  ).


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

UniverseInfinite said:


> Understanding and acknowledgment -- life, it is.
> 
> Thank you all, dear fellow members!
> 
> ...


You want pure melody? Go listen to Faure. 'Nuff said.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Toccata said:


> If somebody asks for advice on "very melodious" music and the suggestion is made of Pierre Boulez then it should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about classical music that it must be intended as a joke, as Boulez's music is the antithesis of a melodious style.


It wasn't obvious to me. Not everybody thinks alike, so lighten up, Toccata.


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Hey, fellows!

Let's try this mind-calming and soothing tune:

Gabriel Urbain Fauré - Requiem (Op. 48) - In Paradisum


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Dear starry, let's see how much intersecting interest starry and Universeinfinite have in the musical realm  ! 

One thing Universeinfinite can be sure of is that Universeinfinite also appreciates some very melodious Modern Popular Music!

Let them exchange some more idea as time goes by...


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Tapkaara is absolutely taken aback by the third person usage he has seen in this thread. Tapkaara just doesn't get it.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> Tapkaara is absolutely taken aback by the third person usage he has seen in this thread. Tapkaara just doesn't get it.


Mirror Image is going to eat some chocolate ice cream and ponder on some music by Sir Arnold Bax.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

An extreme newbie who had apriciated Pli selon pli? Well, you should hear "Le Marteau sans Maître" then...


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