# Curating my Ring Cycle box sets for best version



## Denerah Bathory (6 mo ago)

Seems that I prefer one conductor's interpretation of each opera over the other, so I've decided to curate a complete Playlist of the Ring Cycle to have a best ideal version. For instance, I enjoy Solti's version of Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, but his Die Walküre is so slow and lacking vitality. And I've noticed that Rheingold is a stumbling block for most conductors, the 1st scene is too slow when the maidens chant Rheingold Rheingold. It needs some pulse, some energy.

Does anybody else do this? I rarely listen to an entire cycle by one conductor.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

I almost always stick to one conductor for the sake of continuity. There have been a couple of times where I've not planned to sit through the whole cycle but ended up changing my mind and going for it. Once, I started with Leinsdorf's _Walküre_, Böhm's _Siegfried_, etc. and listening out of order and with four different conductors. If you are going to sit through fifteen hours of Wagner I don't judge you for wanting to make sure you enjoy it as much as you possibly can, and your method is one way of accomplishing that.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Denerah Bathory said:


> Seems that I prefer one conductor's interpretation of each opera over the other, so I've decided to curate a complete Playlist of the Ring Cycle to have a best ideal version. For instance, I enjoy Solti's version of Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, but his Die Walküre is so slow and lacking vitality. And I've noticed that Rheingold is a stumbling block for most conductors, the 1st scene is too slow when the maidens chant Rheingold Rheingold. It needs some pulse, some energy.
> 
> Does anybody else do this? I rarely listen to an entire cycle by one conductor.


A few years ago I did one of the blind listening series going through each of the Ring operas where, s is my usual procedure, I avoided the best known versions. Interestingly the Rheingold performance that I picked, Simon Rattle / Bavarian Radio SO, got a lot of positive comments, especially for the conducting and overall flow of the opera.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't care if the conductor remains constant throughout the cycle. I agree in finding Solti's _Walkure_ weaker than the rest of his _Ring,_ and when I bought the Solti _Ring_ on LP decades ago I substituted the Leinsdorf _Walkure_, which is more energetic and more consistently cast. I do enjoy having consistency across the cycle in the singers of most of the characters, but don't mind some cast changes for the sake of quality.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

So I seem to be a bit of an odd one out here in that I prefer the continuity of having the same conductor for each opera in the cycle. (That said, there are a few recordings of the operas that I have a single recording from a cycle because I like the singers in that particular opera, but not the cycle overall.)

Most of my recordings of the Ring come from a single cycle (mostly from the excellent live Bayreuth series). I also have a historical Ring made up from separate Met broadcasts where Bodansky conducts three of the operas, but Walkure is lead by Leinsdorf, so am happy to somewhat mix and match as well.

I just don't think that anyone has bettered the likes of Keilberth, Kna and Barenboim in their live recordings from Bayreuth and I prefer the musical direction of the cycle to have one overarching style and leadership.

N.


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

This wouldn’t work for me. In my view, the Ring is simply one total work of art in which all it’s single pieces only make sense in relation to each other.
Just think about this. Imagine someone would, throughout their whole life, only ever listen to one Ring opera and never hear anything of the rest. What sense would they be able to make out of it? Sure they could still enjoy the music. But would they be able to understand it? I think not.
I don’t mean to judge you for it. By all means, do what you enjoy. I totally get the desire to put together the ideal Ring recording. We have all been searching for it at some point. ;-)
I for one have simply accepted the fact that such a thing does not and cannot exist. So for me, switching recordings in between operas would be the same as switching recordings in between acts or in between single movements of a symphony. But that’s just the way I feel about it.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

As I rarely listen to the whole *Ring Cycle* at one sitting, it matters little to have the same conductor for the different operas, though I must say the Solti is my favorite having by far the best sound to my ears. But I only have the big guns cycles: Solti, the Bayreuth Böhm, Karajan, Barenboim.


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

MAS said:


> As I rarely listen to the whole *Ring Cycle* at one sitting, it matters little to have the same conductor for the different operas, though I must say the Solti is my favorite having by far the best sound to my ears. But I only have the big guns cycles: Solti, the Bayreuth Böhm, Karajan, Barenboim.


That‘s of course a valid argument. I assume that hardly anybody listens to the whole cycle in one sitting, given it’s length. But if, for example one evening you start with Rheingold and let’s say the next evening or a couple days later you resume with Walküre there is still a sort of continuity to it that I don’t want to break up by switching recordings. It’s not that I haven’t tried it. I just didn’t like it that much.

As for recordings, I don’t think you need to actually own more than the big guns. I wouldn’t want to miss having listened to a bunch of different recordings. But in the end I always return to my favorites, which are the exact ones that you mentioned.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Ulrich said:


> That’s of course a valid argument. I assume that hardly anybody listens to the whole cycle in one sitting, given its length. But if, for example one evening you start with _Rheingold_ and let’s say the next evening or a couple days later you resume with _Walküre_ there is still a sort of continuity to it that I don’t want to break up by switching recordings. It’s not that I haven’t tried it. I just didn’t like it that much.


It takes a considerable amount of planning and time, but I try to do it in four consecutive days, which is one of the reasons I prefer not to switch conductors halfway through. So I agree with your post.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Ulrich said:


> This wouldn’t work for me. In my view, the Ring is simply one total work of art in which all it’s single pieces only make sense in relation to each other...
> 
> So for me, switching recordings in between operas would be the same as switching recordings in between acts or in between single movements of a symphony. But that’s just the way I feel about it.


I think we'd all prefer to hear a complete _Ring_ under a single conductor, superbly cast with the same singers carrying their roles over from opera to opera. Obviously that's hard to achieve, even in the opera house, given the demands of the work and the availability of performers. The studio cycles don't achieve it, and so we have to compromise. In the early 1960s, my first complete _Ring _(and the first one ever recorded in the studio) was Solti's, and I loved it except for the _Walkure._ Luckily, I found the RCA recording, featuring the superior Siegmund of Jon Vickers, the firm-voiced Wotan of George London, and the energetic conducting of Leinsdorf, and thus I had a complete cycle of good performances. Nowadays we can have complete cycles in live recordings under one conductor, but there are always artistic compromises. So yes, the _Ring_ is a single work, and ideally we want consistency in the performing forces, but if compromises are necessary I want to hear the best available performance of each opera.

It's also worth noting that Wagner's style underwent considerable development over the 25 years of the _Ring_'s composition, and this gives each of the operas a distinct musical character despite the unifying force of the Leitmotiv. Some performers are apt to be more effective in some of the operas than in others. My main concern is that each opera be performed as well as possible, particularly if, as is usual nowadays, I'm not listening to all four end to end.


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> I think we'd all prefer to hear a complete _Ring_ under a single conductor, superbly cast with the same singers carrying their roles over from opera to opera. Obviously that's hard to achieve, even in the opera house, given the demands of the work and the availability of performers. The studio cycles don't achieve it, and so we have to compromise. In the early 1960s, my first complete _Ring _(and the first one ever recorded in the studio) was Solti's, and I loved it except for the _Walkure._ Luckily, I found the RCA recording, featuring the superior Siegmund of Jon Vickers, the firm-voiced Wotan of George London, and the energetic conducting of Leinsdorf, and thus I had a complete cycle of good performances. Nowadays we can have complete cycles in live recordings under one conductor, but there are always artistic compromises. So yes, the _Ring_ is a single work, and ideally we want consistency in the performing forces, but if compromises are necessary I want to hear the best available performance of each opera.
> 
> It's also worth noting that Wagner's style underwent considerable development over the 25 years of the _Ring_'s composition, and this gives each of the operas a distinct musical character despite the unifying force of the Leitmotiv. Some performers are apt to be more effective in some of the operas than in others. My main concern is that each opera be performed as well as possible, particularly if, as is usual nowadays, I'm not listening to all four end to end.


The Leinsdorf Walküre is indeed a great recording. The main problem in my mind with Solti‘s is Hans Hotter as Wotan. Something seems to be terribly wrong with his voice in that one. 
But still, both the Solti and Karajan Rings are good enough for me, as are Böhm and Barenboim in Bayreuth.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Ulrich said:


> The Leinsdorf Walküre is indeed a great recording. The main problem in my mind with Solti‘s is Hans Hotter as Wotan. Something seems to be terribly wrong with his voice in that one.
> But still, both the Solti and Karajan Rings are good enough for me, as are Böhm and Barenboim in Bayreuth.


In *Ring Resounding*, John Culshaw recounts his (and Solti’s) decision to cast Hotter as Wotan in *Die Walküre*. I’m not so sure Hotter‘s vocal state vindicates that decision, but it is the most cited reason for objections to the Solti *Ring *besides his conducting. It is my favorite recording nonetheless and I never found reason to investigate the Leinsdorf one. Solti’s orchestra might be a good reason. It is peerless.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

MAS said:


> In *Ring Resounding*, John Culshaw recounts his (and Solti’s) decision to cast Hotter as Wotan in *Die Walküre*. I’m not so sure Hotter‘s vocal state vindicates that decision, but it is the most cited reason for objections to the Solti *Ring *besides his conducting. It is my favorite recording nonetheless and I never found reason to investigate the Leinsdorf one. The orchestra might be a good reason. It is peerless.


The advantage to me of the Solti over the Karajan is that the Solti/VPO makes you feel like you're right there in the orchestra somewhere. I've been a little critical of the casting of Hotter too, but maybe his Wotan can be read as being a little more world-weary or something. Anyway it's similar with Solti's 1975 Meistersinger: you can hear so much orchestral detail in that one. I love the recordings of both Solti and Karajan though.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> In *Ring Resounding*, John Culshaw recounts his (and Solti’s) decision to cast Hotter as Wotan in *Die Walküre*. I’m not so sure Hotter‘s vocal state vindicates that decision, but it is the most cited reason for objections to the Solti *Ring *besides his conducting. It is my favorite recording nonetheless and I never found reason to investigate the Leinsdorf one. Solti’s orchestra might be a good reason. It is peerless.


In the LP days the physical presentation was another reason to have the Leinsdorf recording. It was part of RCA's beautiful Soria Series, with a fat, extremely legible libretto book full of literate essays, general information, photos of the original Bayreuth production, and a lovely slipcase in scarlet faux leather stamped in gold. Young folks haven't had the privilege of enjoying such luxurious packaging, which we felt as an intrinsic part of the musical experience. I asked for the _Walkure_ for Christmas when I was about 14 or 15, and seeing and hearing what splendor lay under the wrapping paper was thrilling beyond description. Being a fanatical young Wagnerite greatly simplifies Santa's job; he brought me the rest of the _Ring_ (Solti's) and Kna's 1962 _Parsifal_ as well. Of course I had to tell him where to buy them.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Being a fanatical young Wagnerite greatly simplifies Santa's job


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Ulrich said:


> So for me, switching recordings in between operas would be the same as switching recordings in between acts or in between single movements of a symphony.


It's weird, isn't it? lol. There are so many freaking recordings and we can't find one that satisfies everything. For example, I always think "If only Ferencsik did the Levin completion for his Hungaroton recording of Mozart's requiem!", (bearing in mind the perfectly slow tempo he takes in the Domine Jesu).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> It's weird, isn't it? lol. There are so many freaking recordings and we can't find one that satisfies everything. For example, I always think "If only Ferencsik did the Levin completion for his Hungaroton recording of Mozart's requiem!", (bearing in mind of the perfectly slow tempo he takes in the Domine Jesu).


It may be weird that there's no completely satisfying recording of the Mozart requiem (satisfying to whom?), but _Tristan_ or the _Ring? _How could it be otherwise? Wagner claimed to be delighted with the way Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld sang Tristan, but we have to wonder how much of his delight was over the fact that the man could sing it at all, especially after 70 rehearsals for the aborted near-premiere in Vienna had made starkly clear to the composer what a monster he had created.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> In the LP days the physical presentation was another reason to have the Leinsdorf recording. It was part of RCA's beautiful Soria Series, with a fat, extremely legible libretto book full of literate essays, general information, photos of the original Bayreuth production, and a lovely slipcase in scarlet faux leather stamped in gold. Young folks haven't had the privilege of enjoying such luxurious packaging, which we felt as an intrinsic part of the musical experience. I asked for the _Walkure_ for Christmas when I was about 14 or 15, and seeing and hearing what splendor lay under the wrapping paper was thrilling beyond description. Being a fanatical young Wagnerite greatly simplifies Santa's job; he brought me the rest of the _Ring_ (Solti's) and Kna's 1962 _Parsifal_ as well. Of course I had to tell him where to buy them.


Couldn’t agree more. I still have my original vinyl boxes for the Karajan, Böhm, Boulez and Furtwangler. I used to have the big wooden case set of the Solti but I sold it a few years ago for mucho dinero! I had replaced it on CD and it seemed a good idea at the time. I miss the fantastic packaging but that’s all really. The music is the thing. 🙂


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> In the LP days the physical presentation was another reason to have the Leinsdorf recording. It was part of RCA's beautiful Soria Series, with a fat, extremely legible libretto book full of literate essays, general information, photos of the original Bayreuth production, and a lovely slipcase in scarlet faux leather stamped in gold. Young folks haven't had the privilege of enjoying such luxurious packaging, which we felt as an intrinsic part of the musical experience. I asked for the _Walkure_ for Christmas when I was about 14 or 15, and seeing and hearing what splendor lay under the wrapping paper was thrilling beyond description. Being a fanatical young Wagnerite greatly simplifies Santa's job; he brought me the rest of the _Ring_ (Solti's) and Kna's 1962 _Parsifal_ as well. Of course I had to tell him where to buy them.


I am of the younger generation, but I totally get what you’re talking about. Most of the reissues of great recordings have nothing but the CD in it. It’s really disappointing. That’s why I hardly own anything on hard copy. There’s simply no point for having it over the digital one.


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> It's weird, isn't it? lol. There are so many freaking recordings and we can't find one that satisfies everything.


Part of the reason for this might be because we’re so freaking spoiled with having such fine performances on record, like Birgit Nilssons Brünnhilde or Dennis Brains Mozart Horn Concertos. Now we expect everything to be like this. 
But seriously, _Der Ring_ is of course much more difficult to do adequately than the Mozart Requiem, or anything else really. Even having such recordings like Solti or Karajan is a wonder in itself. When you think about it, the standards for a live performance are much lower. At least for me they are. I would be thrilled already if they simply did the actual piece.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> In the LP days the physical presentation was another reason to have the Leinsdorf recording. It was part of RCA's beautiful Soria Series, with a fat, extremely legible libretto book full of literate essays, general information, photos of the original Bayreuth production, and a lovely slipcase in scarlet faux leather stamped in gold. Young folks haven't had the privilege of enjoying such luxurious packaging, which we felt as an intrinsic part of the musical experience. I asked for the _Walkure_ for Christmas when I was about 14 or 15, and seeing and hearing what splendor lay under the wrapping paper was thrilling beyond description. Being a fanatical young Wagnerite greatly simplifies Santa's job; he brought me the rest of the _Ring_ (Solti's) and Kna's 1962 _Parsifal_ as well. Of course I had to tell him where to buy them.


I really miss LP packaging. The Soria Series is legendary, and that was one of the reasons Walter Legge stole Dario Soria away from Cetra, engaging him to help introduce Angel. Records to the U.S. Dario was introducing Cetra-Soria to the U.S. then as well as a whole series of post-war Italian opera recordings, which had no distribution here.


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## Denerah Bathory (6 mo ago)

Really seems like a lot of conductors don't get how to interpret Walküre right, especially the famous Act 3. Like I always perceive it as a galloping battle hymn, horses marching across a thundering sky, and the woodwinds being gusts of swirling wind, the bass line being the galloping itself, I don't understand why they slow it down ridiculously slow to the point of adagio or andante at most. Come on, it's basically iron maiden in 1876!


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

My choices for now:

Das Rheingold: Keilberth 
Die Walkure: Leinsdorf 
Siegfried: Böhm
Götterdämmerung: Solti and Furtwangler


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> we have to wonder how much of his delight was over the fact that the man could sing it at all, especially after 70 rehearsals for the aborted near-premiere in Vienna had made starkly clear to the composer what a monster he had created.


Not to mention the singer died after a few performances.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I usually go with 

Rheingold - Solti
Die Walkure - Leinsdorf, 1940
Seigfried - Bodanzky, 1937 
Gotterdammerung - Furtwangler, 1950


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

FWIW - In 2008 BBCs Building a Library feature recommended the following conductors for the best Ring cycle

Das Rheingold - Joseph Kleiberth (Testament)
Die Walkure - Herbert von Karajan (DG)
Siegfried - Joseph Kleiberth (Testament)
Gotterdammerung - Solti (Decca)

I can't speak for the merits of each, but they're generally very thorough in their evaluations. As for me I like Daniel Barenboim all the way through!


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

Subutai said:


> FWIW - In 2008 BBCs Building a Library feature recommended the following conductors for the best Ring cycle
> 
> Das Rheingold - Joseph Kleiberth (Testament)
> Die Walkure - Herbert von Karajan (DG)
> ...


As a general matter, one can hardly go wrong with their recommendations or those of any other serious reviewers, when it comes to finding good recordings and use that as a starting point. It his however a very different matter finding recordings that _you_ like. It’s pretty common sense that both the Solti and Karajan _Ring_ cycles are fine recordings. Still there are people who absolutely adore one and hate the other (I like both btw). To find your ideal recording you just have to do a lot of listening yourself.
As for the Barenboim cycle that you mentioned. I like it. It‘s generally perceived as one of the better (if not best) modern recording. 
Regarding the 1955 Keilberth out of which two recordings were recommended by the BBC, it’s decent, but a bit overhyped in my humble opinion.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Ulrich said:


> So for me, switching recordings in between operas would be the same as switching recordings in between acts or in between single movements of a symphony. But that’s just the way I feel about it.


One act at a time is the way I usually listen to the Ring. When I buy a new recording, I usually play it through once from beginning to end, but it's a lot more typical for me to listen to one act at a time, usually because a particular recording contains favorite casts, or to avoid singers whose work I find unacceptable.

So when it comes to the Karajan and Solti Walkure recordings, I listen to Solti Act 1, and Karajan for Acts 2 and 3.


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## sasdwf (Feb 6, 2021)

Solti introduced me to the Ring cycle back in the 1970s. I was hooked! Solti’s set was the first I acquired on CD, and recent remasterings possess great sound. I still enjoy those performances to this day.

But I’m so glad I didn’t stop there. Karajan unveiled hidden orchestral treasures. Krauss and Kna captivated with nuanced storytelling and exquisite singing. Furtwangler forced concentrated listening through murky soundscapes (twice!). As an aside, the recent remastering of the 1953 performances by Alexandre Bak seemed a big improvement over previous remasterings to my ears. And Barenboim proved the magic continued in the digital era.

I’m not averse to mix and match recordings. I had a cheap boxed set that contained mainly performances by Keilberth, but when Walkure started, I went “who is this!?” Turned out it was the studio recording by Furtwangler. Good stuff!

I’m very glad to have heard all of these.
Dan


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## Dan forgelbow (5 mo ago)

I envy you. As a bigginer, I want to enjoy thr ring cycle but its too difficult to understand for me.


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## sasdwf (Feb 6, 2021)

I suggest seeking out some of the orchestral excerpts (“bleeding chunks”) recorded by Karajan, Furtwangler, Toscanini and others to get a feel for the music. Wikipedia has a good summary of the story. And the DVD of the Barenboim performance ( or others, that’s the one I’ve seen) may be helpful.

Happy listening! 



Dan forgelbow said:


> I envy you. As a bigginer, I want to enjoy thr ring cycle but its too difficult to understand for me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Dan forgelbow said:


> I envy you. As a bigginer, I want to enjoy thr ring cycle but its too difficult to understand for me.


Don't worry about understanding it. Nobody does at first. In the beginning you can just enjoy it as a marvelous musical fairy tale.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

Dan forgelbow said:


> I envy you. As a bigginer, I want to enjoy thr ring cycle but its too difficult to understand for me.


Hang in there. If you stick with it, the switch is going to be flipped. And then you're an addict.


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## Ulrich (5 mo ago)

Dan forgelbow said:


> I envy you. As a bigginer, I want to enjoy thr ring cycle but its too difficult to understand for me.


Don’t despair. This is a monumental work, so it’s only natural that it takes patience and commitment to get into. But it is well worth the time. As far as I‘m concerned, it is the most complete piece of art that you can find.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

sasdwf said:


> I suggest seeking out some of the orchestral excerpts (“bleeding chunks”) recorded by Karajan, Furtwangler, Toscanini and others to get a feel for the music. Wikipedia has a good summary of the story. And the DVD of the Barenboim performance ( or others, that’s the one I’ve seen) may be helpful.
> 
> Happy listening!


Yes...and another thing is to learn what leitmotifs are and how Wagner uses them. Getting the Solti set with the Deryck Cooke introductory CDs could be a big help. Or you can listen to it on YT.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

This is a good place to start. Consider: we’re the converted, but we can’t make you like the Ring! 😂


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I coveted these for years, but never got them. I had to make do with the U.S. edition on London LPs.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

MAS said:


> This is a good place to start. Consider: we’re the converted, but we can’t make you like the Ring! 😂


Heh...back in the day I bought a similar album with Szell/Cleveland. Now when I listen to highlights like that I keep expecting to hear singing and it ain't there.  I'm tempted to fill it in myself. Good choice though and good idea.

This was the album I referred to, only it was an LP. And long gone. Looking it up brought back memories.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

MAS said:


> This is a good place to start. Consider: we’re the converted, but we can’t make you like the Ring! 😂


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> This is a good place to start. Consider: we’re the converted, but we can’t make you like the Ring! 😂


We can hear much of the variety of the _Ring_'s orchestral writing in this compilation, but it's structurally chaotic, as Wagner never is. All these bits and pieces are so much more effective and meaningful in context. A few bits can stand alone, though, including the "magic fire music" that ends _Walkure,_ but Maazel oddly omits that. He also overlooks the exciting prelude to Act 3 of _Siegfried_, as well as Siegfried's passage through the fire to Brunnhilde's rock. He gives us only part of the "forest murmurs," but thankfully leaves Siegfried's Rhine journey and his funeral march intact. Of the four operas, _Gotterdammerung_ is represented by the longest uninterrupted stretches of music and comes off best.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> We can hear much of the variety of the _Ring_'s orchestral writing in this compilation, but it's structurally chaotic, as Wagner never is. All these bits and pieces are so much more effective and meaningful in context. ...


That's very true. I remember when I first listened to that highlights album I had no idea what "entrance of the gods into Valhalla" even meant. Or the sardonic backstory to that rousing music. Valkyries were those women on flying horses in the encyclopedia etc.

I would probably suggest just getting a good box set of the Ring, even a good used one, and jump in. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Yabetz said:


> I would probably suggest just getting a good box set of the Ring, even a good used one, and jump in. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon.


Afer hearing nothing more than dawn and the Rhine journey from _Gotterdammerung,_ I couldn't wait to jump in. I've never jumped out.

What do rocket surgeons do?


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

MAS said:


> View attachment 173129
> 
> I coveted these for years, but never got them. I had to make do with the U.S. edition on London LPs.


What is it? Asking for a Ring novice.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Afer hearing nothing more than dawn and the Rhine journey from _Gotterdammerung,_ I couldn't wait to jump in. I've never jumped out.
> 
> What do rocket surgeons do?


Operate on rockets.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> What is it? Asking for a Ring novice.


It’s a deluxe special edition of the Solti *Der Ring des Nibelungen *with the Derrick Cooke analysis of leitmotifs.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

MAS said:


> View attachment 173129
> 
> I coveted these for years, but never got them. I had to make do with the U.S. edition on London LPs.


That’s the first Ring cycle I bought in the seventies for about £35 ( $50. ) Sold it on eBay a few years back for £160 (around $200). It was a nice artifact but it never got played more than twice in the forty odd years I had it.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

MAS said:


> This is a good place to start. Consider: we’re the converted, but we can’t make you like the Ring! 😂


Off topic, but listen to that from about the 22:10 mark (from Act III of _Die Walküre). _Whatever would Mahler and Strauss have done without Wagner...


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Yabetz said:


> Off topic, but listen to that from about the 22:10 mark (from Act III of _Die Walküre). _Whatever would Mahler and Strauss have done without Wagner...


In the thread <I cannot understand why some who loves Wagner would...>, I also pointed to that as a section that especially reminded me of Mahler


hammeredklavier said:


> reminds me of Mahler


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> In the thread <I cannot understand why some who loves Wagner would...>, I also pointed to that as a section that especially reminded me of Mahler


It's a shame Helen Traubel's prime didn't coincide with the stereo era. She had quite a voice.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Yabetz said:


> Off topic, but listen to that from about the 22:10 mark (from Act III of _Die Walküre). _Whatever would Mahler and Strauss have done without Wagner...


You also realize that it’s done so much better by other conductors…


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

MAS said:


> You also realize that it’s done so much better by other conductors…


Oh yeah. I've never really been a Maazel fan, although I like the tempo in the Valkyrie section in that video.


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