# Which flavour of opera do you like the best?



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Which flavour of opera do you like the best?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Consider not just language but the nominal "aesthetic" of the operas in that language/region.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

German of course, especially if it includes Austria.
I strongly dislike most French and Italian romantic operas I've heard, though I'm sure there are plenty of great pre- and post-romantic ones.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Why do you ask about flavours in your post and make a poll about national schools? 

Anyway, some of my favourite flavours in opera are creamy - especially when cream is being whipped by experts like Anna Moffo (who likes to enrich her cream with cherry aroma, which I love as well), Kiri Te Kanawa or Magdalena Kozena, for tenor cakes I delight in the honey flavour served by beekeepers such as Carreras or di Stefano (among others). Not being that original I must also admit my fondness for bitter alcohol flavours served by Callas & Co. There are many others I enjoy. Regarding those that I don't, there is that russian spaghetti (made from hvorostovsky wheat) flavour - just for example.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Aceto Balsamico
L'olio di oliva
Risotto
Saltimbocca
Gelato
Chianti
S. Pellegrino
Verdi
Donizetti
Rossini

and

Ferrari


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

For me, it's a toss-up between Italian and German operas. I love 'em both.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I thought I could vote for more than one and wanted to say Italian and German.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I too would have liked a multiple choice poll. They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I must choose it's Italian.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I would have liked a multiple choice marriage. But sometimes you gotta pick just one.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

way to make me feel dirty about listening to German opera, then! Italian opera, I swear you're the one for me (German opera, cover your ears, dear).


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cosi fan Tutti-Frutti


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

May I remind you that English and American are different languages!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

No can do. I love German, Italian, French, English, Russian, and Eastern European (as well as zarzuela) from 1607 to 2012 (haven't heard anything more recent).


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

sospiro said:


> Aceto Balsamico
> L'olio di oliva
> Risotto
> Saltimbocca
> ...


Goodness, you left out _tiramisu_! If I did, my daughters would never forgive me. And worse, you left out Monica Belucci.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

German, of course. What would I do without _Licht?_


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> German, of course. What would I do without _Licht?_


Live a long and prosperous life?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

German, of course. What would I do without Licht?

Listen to the entire Ring a few times... and _Tristan und Isolde_ for good measure.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Italy: Opera was born there. I love Monteverdi, Cavalli, the rich tradition of Italian Baroque opera, then the 'Belcanto' triad of Rossini, Bellini and Donizetti. The Romantic period lorded by the giant figure of Verdi. Puccini and verismo. Avant-garde opera by Dallapiccola, Nono or Berio... Up to the 21st century with Romitelli or Sciarrino, so close to Monteverdi, and so far from Verdi.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I picked Italian, but German is very good and I like the French on my La Fille du Regiment.


:lol: old thread dragged up for some fun.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Italy, Germany and Austria are probably the best-represented nations in my opera collection but I like them wherever they're from. When compiling the poll options I probably would have included Czech instead of Chinese, though!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Personally...

[x] Chocolate


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Becca said:


> Personally...
> 
> [x] Chocolate


:lol:..................


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

How about operas written by an Austrian but performed in Italian?

I'm a big big big fan of Mozart's operas, but somehow his German ones (Zauberflöte, Serail) sound a bit inferior to me to the Italian ones (just love Cosi, Figaro and Don).


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Italian, specifically early/middle Verdi and dramatic bel canto (ie, Norma and Semiramide as opposed to Barbiere or Fille de Regiment). German opera is too cold and mechanical for my tastes. it lacks the warmth, romanticism and *legato* of Italian opera.

_however_, if we are talking traditional music with classical vocals in general, definitely Russian (/Ukrainian/Belarusian/Polish) music. it's romantic like Italian opera, has it's own brand of legato and has a melancholic chord structure with a somewhat "mysterious" feel to it. Ruthenian and Slavic accents also lend themselves well to a rich, dark timbre.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I think Russian opera is hugely underrated (except in Russia and associated countries), but Italian just beats it in my opinion. German would make a very close third, but I couldn't do without any of the three. Despite there being some fine works (especially by Italian composers) in French, I could live without French opera. (Assuming that by picking Italian I still get to have Vespri Siciliani, La Favorita and Guglielmo Tell).

N.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Becca said:


> Personally...
> 
> [x] Chocolate


You are on fire today :lol:


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

I must confess to just not enjoying French as a sung language, which makes French language opera difficult for me to enjoy. This seems counterintuitive because French is not particularly unattractive when spoken... but it seems too "mushy" and vowelly, the syllables not strong enough to make an impact when set to music. I don't know why anyone would choose a French version (even if "the original" eg Don Carlos or Les Vepres Siciliennes) when you could have an Italian version, a much more satisfying vehicle for singing.

For the record, I love the elegance of spoken Russian but am neutral/OK on it as an opera language.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> I must confess to just not enjoying French as a sung language, which makes French language opera difficult for me to enjoy. This seems counterintuitive because French is not particularly unattractive when spoken... but it seems too "mushy" and vowelly, the syllables not strong enough to make an impact when set to music. I don't know why anyone would choose a French version (even if "the original" eg Don Carlos or Les Vepres Siciliennes) when you could have an Italian version, a much more satisfying vehicle for singing.


agreed (unless it's Callas singing in French. she makes it sound amazing)



> For the record, I love the elegance of spoken Russian but am neutral/OK on it as an opera language.


similar to my previous comment, I think Russian sounds better in traditional Russian music than in opera.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

graziesignore said:


> I must confess to just not enjoying French as a sung language, which makes French language opera difficult for me to enjoy. This seems counterintuitive because French is not particularly unattractive when spoken... but it seems too "mushy" and vowelly, the syllables not strong enough to make an impact when set to music. I don't know why anyone would choose a French version (even if "the original" eg Don Carlos or Les Vepres Siciliennes) when you could have an Italian version, a much more satisfying vehicle for singing.
> 
> For the record, I love the elegance of spoken Russian but am neutral/OK on it as an opera language.


Irrespective of how it sounds in the different languages, the original French libretto for Don Carlos fits the music better AND their are some really corny lines in the Italian translation. E.g. "Le fer devant le Roi! L'Infant est en délire!" becomes "L'acciar! Innanzi al Re! L'infante è fuor di se". Making this line rhyme in the Italian makes it sound like a jingle.

N.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Speaking of Italian translations, why are Italians such babies when it comes to character names... why do they have to translate every foreign character name into an Italian equivalent? (Enrichetta for Henrietta, Riccardo for Richard etc etc)


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I prefer Klingon opera .


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## Cesare Impalatore (Apr 16, 2015)

It kind of saddens me to see so little love for French opera in this poll. German opera as in german speaking opera, excluding italian/french operas by great German/Austrian composers, doesn't have a tradition as rich as France's, except for the incredibly salient exceptions like Wagner, Strauss etc.. I almost gave my vote to France in protest but couldn't resist voting for Italy in the end.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Italian, always
French, sometimes
German, maybe (Ring, Lohengrin, Fidelio, Oberon)
Mozart!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Cesare Impalatore said:


> It kind of saddens me to see so little love for French opera in this poll. German opera as in german speaking opera, excluding italian/french operas by great German/Austrian composers, doesn't have a tradition as rich as France's, except for the incredibly salient exceptions like Wagner, Strauss etc.. I almost gave my vote to France in protest but couldn't resist voting for Italy in the end.


I was told that for Daughter of the Regiment, the French version is better than the Italian version. I do love the Mariella Devia French La Fille du Regiment:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

French opera!

It's arguably the richest and most varied of all operatic traditions. Major composers in the 19th century, both French and foreign-born, included Berlioz, Massenet, Meyerbeer, Gounod, Halevy, Auber, Thomas, Offenbach and Saint-Saens. Reyer, Bizet, Adam, Herold, Mehul, Spontini, Cherubini, Paladilhe, Salvayre, Lalo, Chausson, Charpentier, Chabrier, Bruneau, Joncieres, Hahn, Maillart, Faure, Debussy, Ravel, Roussel, Gretry, Boieldieu and David all wrote at least one major work. **
(The problem is that most of those names are names, rather than part of the mainstream repertoire. )

The attention paid to drama and text. In French opera, content dictates form, from early on, and culminating in Massenet, Saint-Saens and Debussy, in their different ways. It's concerned with intellectual, philosophical, political, artistic, literary, historical and social themes. It ranges from heroic epics to nuanced naturalism, from farce or absurdism or light comedy to experimental works (eg Hoffmann, Thomas's Francoise de Rimini).

The music is sophisticated and imaginative; French composers had a genius for instrumental colour that depicts a time or place. (The Russians learnt from this.) Many French composers wrote symphonies, oratorios, piano music, chamber music &c, and brought this orchestral experience to the opera. Italian opera focuses more on the voice until late in the 19th century (as someone - Berlioz? - said, the Italian opera orchestra is the strumming of a monstrous guitar), while Wagner gives primacy to the orchestra; French opera strikes a balance.

Its influence on other musical traditions - Verdi and Wagner, for instance, were both influenced by French opera. Composers from other countries - Meyerbeer, Spontini, Donizetti, Rossini, &c - came to Paris because it was the cultural capital of the world. Wagner had his eye set on becoming an established opera composer there.

** A list... to give some idea of the range of French opera
Les Huguenots, Le Prophete, Vasco da Gama (L'Africaine), Robert le Diable, Le pardon de Ploermel (Dinorah), L'etoile du nord
La Juive 
Les Troyens, Benvenuto Cellini, Beatrice et Benedict 
Faust, Romeo et Juliette, Sapho, Mireille, Philemon et Baucis, Le medecin malgre lui
Patrie! 
Padmavati
Manon, Werther, Thais, Griselidis, Cendrillon, Amadis, Roma, Herodiade, Esclarmonde, Don Quichotte 
La Muette de Portici, Fra Diavolo, Haydee, Guatave III, Le domino noir, Le cheval de bronze 
Hamlet, Mignon, Le songe d'une nuit d'ete, Francoise de Rimini 
Sigurd, Salammbo 
Samson et Dalila, Henry VIII, Etienne Marcel
Les contes d'Hoffmann, La belle Helene, Orphee aux enfers, Les brigands 
Pelleas et Melisande
Penelope
L'enfant et les sortileges
Carmen, Les pecheurs de perles
Louise
Le roi d'Ys
Le roi malgre lui, Gwendoline, L'etoile
Herculanum 
Le roi Arthus
Zampa, Le pre aux clercs
La vestale
La dame blanche 
Le postillon de Lonjumeau


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

​
Otherwise, Russian Opera is underrated, and French Opera is very rich and diverse and also much more mature than all others. What ruins Russian for me is that I don't speak it, and I like to understand what it's being sung or said, even vaguely, without having to look at a translation of the libretto. As for French, it's usually the dreadful diction that ruins it for me, so I try to listen to only Maria Callas and French Singers, the former often sounds more French than the latter.
That said, I can't stand Opera sung in English.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

German opera includes the Mozart operas and "Fidelio". Contest over AFAIC.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

As for myself, I prefer Tutti Frutti opera .


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I like Chinese food, as for the rest, as long as it's "feeling " okay, I like all other flavours of opera.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I can't pick because I like opera in several languages. Pretty much I'll take it in the language it was written in, but sometimes will grab an English set. Italian, German, French, Russian--I would not want to give up any of them. As for beauty, Italian probably takes the top tier. But there is equally as beautiful singing in all these languages. Consider Marina Mniszech's aria in Boris Godunov.


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