# Recommendations for "Complete works" sets?



## macgeek2005

I assume the ~$2000 "Mozart Complete Edition" of 180 CDs is the best complete Mozart collection, but I'm unclear about which would be the best Bach or Beethoven sets. Can anyone enlighten me?

Down the road I may also be interested in other composers like Haydn or Tchaikovsky... but for now just those first three.

Thanks!


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## kv466

I'm not sure what it costs now and if you can even still get it complete but luckily I had the foresight to know the Phillips Complete Mozart set was to be bought when I first saw it hit the racks. Then again, I got it because it highlighted one of my favorite orchestras and it proved to be the best buy ever. I don't have any other complete works by anyone else so I couldn't tell you. If you can get one thing from the Mozart set, I would recommend the complete symphonies.


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## joen_cph

As for the *Brilliant Classics * *155CD* *Bach* set, its main, IMO indisputable drawback is the cantatas part which has some really below-standard singing now and then (check out the counter-tenor Sytse Buwalda, if you dare ...). But the set has many fine performances too, including the Brandenburgs/Clark and many of the larger vocal works. Given its price, it is OK, if you then later on supplement with a second cantatas set (or a selection of them at least), for instance Rilling, Richter or Gardiner/archiv (the last-mentioned often sold cheaply, including many other vocal works).

I can´t say that I know enough about the *Hanssler* *172 CD *set or the *Warner 153 CD*. Usually they are much more expensive. But if money was no problem, I _would_ start with one of those, they must be more consistent.

As regards the *Brilliant Classics Beethoven *set, again it seems OK, but then I´d choose the 100 CD version including some famous historical recordings, to get a broader palette, not the 85CD issue. Its highlights are IMO the late quartets with Yale4 and the Piano Trios, whereas most of the rest of the set are decent, middle-of-the-road recordings. Some really do like Gulda´s complete piano sonatas and piano concertos there, though.

The other budget set on *ABF 87 Beethoven CDs *has a very mixed bunch of soloists, but I´d definitely avoid it; judging from them, there are too many mediocre or worse recordings to be found there, if compared to the Brilliant Classics. I don´t think that the DDD labelling is true, not that I care extremely much about sound quality, but it indicates something ...

But I´m not so sure I´d invest the large sum of money of the *DG 20 Part Beethoven set* if compared to the Brilliant, however its design is of course more luxurious and it has better liner notes etc.

Of course read the various reviews carefully and listen to as many samples as possible.

Another way is to work your way through the composer´s works by picking selected recordings now and then, gradually developing a personal taste ...


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## macgeek2005

kv466 said:


> I'm not sure what it costs now and if you can even still get it complete but luckily I had the foresight to know the Phillips Complete Mozart set was to be bought when I first saw it hit the racks. Then again, I got it because it highlighted one of my favorite orchestras and it proved to be the best buy ever. I don't have any other complete works by anyone else so I couldn't tell you. If you can get one thing from the Mozart set, I would recommend the complete symphonies.


I can still get it for around $2000 in one place or another. Do you think it's worth it? $2000 is a significant percentage of my net worth, but I can afford it. What did you pay for it when it was "available"?



joen_cph said:


> As for the *Brilliant Classics * *155CD* *Bach* set, its main, IMO indisputable drawback is the cantatas part which has some really below-standard singing now and then (check out the counter-tenor Sytse Buwalda, if you dare ...). But the set has many fine performances too, including the Brandenburgs/Clark and many of the larger vocal works. Given its price, it is OK, if you then later on supplement with a second cantatas set (or a selection of them at least), for instance Rilling, Richter or Gardiner/archiv (the last-mentioned often sold cheaply, including many other vocal works).
> 
> I can´t say that I know enough about the *Hanssler* *172 CD *set or the *Warner 153 CD*. Usually they are much more expensive. But if money was no problem, I _would_ start with one of those, they must be more consistent.
> 
> As regards the *Brilliant Classics Beethoven *set, again it seems OK, but then I´d choose the 100 CD version including some famous historical recordings, to get a broader palette, not the 85CD issue. Its highlights are IMO the late quartets with Yale4 and the Piano Trios, whereas most of the rest of the set are decent, middle-of-the-road recordings. Some really do like Gulda´s complete piano sonatas and piano concertos there, though.
> 
> The other budget set on *ABF 87 Beethoven CDs *has a very mixed bunch of soloists, but I´d definitely avoid it; judging from them, there are too many mediocre or worse recordings to be found there, if compared to the Brilliant Classics. I don´t think that the DDD labelling is true, not that I care extremely much about sound quality, but it indicates something ...
> 
> But I´m not so sure I´d invest the large sum of money of the *DG 20 Part Beethoven set* if compared to the Brilliant, however its design is of course more luxurious and it has better liner notes etc.
> 
> Of course read the various reviews carefully and listen to as many samples as possible.
> 
> Another way is to work your way through the composer´s works by picking selected recordings now and then, gradually developing a personal taste ...


Yeah, I was looking at the 172 CD Bach set.. that's this, right? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

But I was unable to find a 100 CD Brilliant Classics version of the Beethoven.. can you show me a link to that?

Thanks!


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## bigshot

I love it when people judge the quality of performances by the price tag of the CD. It costs more so it must be better!

I have the Hanssler Bach and the Brilliant Classics Mozart and they're both very good. The Brilliant Classics is a bit more HIP than the Phillips box if that matters to you.


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## joen_cph

Here´s a link to the 100 CD Beethoven:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Works-Beethoven-Ludwig-van/dp/B000VHTS3C

*EDIT*: I´ll have to correct myself, Brilliant has other soloists in a couple of cases: the late quartets with Yale4 were in another Beethoven (complete?) box set, and it is not Gulda here in this edition, but the early Brendel-vox recording.



> I love it when people judge the quality of performances by the price tag of the CD. It costs more so it must be better!


In the Mozart case there´s no doubt that the Philips is much better than the Brilliant Classics, IMO.


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## kv466

*@ mcGeek*

Well, it would definitely say that it is worth it but it has gone up significantly...what I meant by available was the time you could just walk into a Best Buy and pick up the individual sections and they actually had most of them...because of that, I don't remember exactly but I know it was less than $1000...anyway,...it seems like it'll be around for a while and I'm sure a lot of folks are hoping for a reissue...I know Amazon has a bunch of them; maybe all, I'm not sure.


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## bigshot

"Investing" in expensive CD sets seems to be a risky venture at this point. It's fine if the music is worth $2000 to you, but it seems to me that ever hoping to resell the set at anywhere near that price would require finding someone with a lot more money and dedication than the vast majority of human beings.


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## macgeek2005

Well, I Really want that 45 volume set, and it is worth $2000 to me. If there no hope of reselling it for that much ever, then what are the current amazon and eBay sellers hoping for? They have fixed sales going in the $2000 range.

I would love to get it for less than $2000, but it is also worth $2000 to me.


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## bigshot

Fixed price sales like that are fishing for someone like you. If they put it up for auction and let the market decide, they would be lucky to get $4 a disk. If they have the patience, they can wait the year or more it might take for someone willing to pay a lot to come along. Also, a lot of sellers are intent on getting the price things were worth 10 or 15 years ago before CDs took a dive in popularity. The longer they hold out, the less likely a sale becomes.


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## macgeek2005

bigshot said:


> Fixed price sales like that are fishing for someone like you. If they put it up for auction and let the market decide, they would be lucky to get $4 a disk. If they have the patience, they can wait the year or more it might take for someone willing to pay a lot to come along. Also, a lot of sellers are intent on getting the price things were worth 10 or 15 years ago before CDs took a dive in popularity. The longer they hold out, the less likely a sale becomes.


Yeah, I kind of got that feeling. I'll just hold out and look for a better deal than $2000... hm.....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

For Bach I would highly recommend Masaaki Suzuki's recordings of the complete sacred _cantatas_ on BIS. I don't know about his complete works though.

There is an excellent recording of *Ligeti's* works on Sony Classical that isn't too expensive on amazon.com.


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## macgeek2005

Thanks.

If I can get that Philips Complete Mozart (45 volumes) for around $800 or $850 that would be something to jump on, right?


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## Jeremy Marchant

macgeek2005 said:


> I assume the ~$2000 "Mozart Complete Edition" of 180 CDs is the best complete Mozart collection, but I'm unclear about which would be the best Bach or Beethoven sets. Can anyone enlighten me?


Well, it's probably the _only _complete Mozart collection, but whether it is worth $2000 is arguable. I'd spend your money on a more considered selection of recordings from different artists and labels which, together, would comprise an artistically greater collection.


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## macgeek2005

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Well, it's probably the _only _complete Mozart collection, but whether it is worth $2000 is arguable. I'd spend your money on a more considered selection of recordings from different artists and labels which, together, would comprise an artistically greater collection.


Well, I can get it for less than $1500 for sure. How much less, I don't know yet. But I really want this collection primarily for the symphonies, all the unknown operas, early masses, sporadic Kyrie's, etc. I'm in a course on Mozart right now in University, and it would be amazing to be able to listen to ALL his music, including all the little things that are mentioned from his youth, and random operas he wrote that no one ever hears. It would just be incredible to have a collection like that. Incredible.


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## macgeek2005

Is the 45 volume set better than the 17 volume reissue? They're both 180 CDs. I'm confused on this.


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## Jeremy Marchant

macgeek2005 said:


> Well, I can get it for less than $1500 for sure. How much less, I don't know yet. But I really want this collection primarily for the symphonies, all the unknown operas, early masses, sporadic Kyrie's, etc. I'm in a course on Mozart right now in University, and it would be amazing to be able to listen to ALL his music, including all the little things that are mentioned from his youth, and random operas he wrote that no one ever hears. It would just be incredible to have a collection like that. Incredible.


Well, if you need it for study that's different - and you are hardly going to be let down by the artists: Marriner in the symphonies, Uchida in the sonatas, Davis in the operas, Q Italiano in the quartets, Brendel in the concertos. I have these recordings myself (all on vinyl) - even some of the operas!



macgeek2005 said:


> Is the 45 volume set better than the 17 volume reissue? They're both 180 CDs. I'm confused on this.


Mr Wikipedia lists the contents of both sets, box by box here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Mozart_Edition
He says:

To commemorate the bicentenary of the death of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (December 5, 1791) Philips Classics Records assembled The Complete Mozart Edition comprising 180 compact discs arranged into 45 themed volumes. Each volume in the series is accompanied by a deluxe booklet with detailed information about the works, with many illustrations...

A modified version of The Complete Mozart Edition, the Complete Compact Mozart Edition, was released in 2000. It consists of 17 individual boxed sets. This version also contains stripped down versions of the booklets that accompanied the original series.

The Complete Mozart Edition and The Complete Compact Mozart Edition are both accompanied by a 200-page booklet which presents a condensed biography of Mozart with many photographs, describes in detail all boxes content and contains a complete index of all the musical works following the Köchel catalogue.


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## Jeremy Marchant

macgeek2005 said:


> Down the road I may also be interested in other composers like Haydn or Tchaikovsky... but for now just those first three.


Don't know about Haydn or Tchaikovsky, but the complete Sibelius edtion on Bis has been very well received. I have the theatre music box (vol 5) and it's certainly thorough


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## macgeek2005

Okay, moment of truth.

There was a seller offering the 45 volume set in mint condition for $2000. I said $1000. He said $1500. I said $1000 with me paying for shipping (originally it was free shipping). He agreed. $1100 total for me.

Do I go for it? If I Really want this, is that a reasonable price?

Edit: I sent an offer of $1000 flat. We'll see what happens.

To everyone who has responded about this or other composers sets, thank you! I haven't been ignoring you. 

Edit 2: Offer accepted! I can't quite explain how I feel.

Anyways, I'll let my bank account recuperate and then I'll find this thread again when I'm ready to purchase Bach or Beethoven.


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## bigshot

The Brilliant Classics collection is very good. I'd suggest getting that and seeing whether spending all that money on the Phillips set is really necessary.


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## tgtr0660

I'm waiting and saving all I can for when one day they release the set of the complete works by Anton Webern...


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## bigshot

Berkeshire has the Brilliant Classics complete Mozart operas for under $100. That's a big chunk of the complete set. You could fill in the symphonies, etc around that.


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## macgeek2005

Well, it's too late now.. haha. I got the 45 volume set in mint condition (with many volumes still in shrink wrap) for $1000. I'm pretty happy.  I'm glad I was notified here as to the true market value of the CDs so that I wouldn't end up paying $1500 or $2000. I know even $1000 is higher than what an auction would go for, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me, considering individual volumes sell for $30/$35.


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## macgeek2005

Does anyone know if there are any differences between the two versions of the 172 CD Rilling Bach set, other than the packaging?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WJLX/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Work...4QPE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335054548&sr=8-2

The new one is much more affordable...

Also, are these period recordings?


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## Vaneyes

macgeek2005 said:


> Does anyone know if there are any differences between the two versions of the 172 CD Rilling Bach set, other than the packaging?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WJLX/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Work...4QPE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335054548&sr=8-2
> 
> The new one is much more affordable...
> 
> Also, are these period recordings?


This link may help you.

http://www.haenssler-classic.de/en/...e-complete-works/the-complete-cd-edition.html


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## macgeek2005

joen_cph said:


> Here´s a link to the 100 CD Beethoven:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Works-Beethoven-Ludwig-van/dp/B000VHTS3C


That looks like 85 CDs to me. Is this the 100 CD box you're talking about? http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-CD-Box-...=Music_CDs&hash=item27c630e81a#ht_1014wt_1413


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## joen_cph

Yes, you are right.

The Beethoven-editions from Brilliant Classics form a confusing series.

At first, a spacious *40 CD Beethoven Masterworks *with CD hard covers was issued:
1) http://images1.americanlisted.com/n...ven_40_cd_box_set_65_west_campus_10440159.jpg

I had that one, but gradually I sold most of its content, which included: symphonies/Blomstedt (OK), sonatas/Lill (boring), piano concertos/Sugitani (incredibly boring), cello sonatas/Krustev (forgettably boring), string quartets/Sharon quartet, Medici Quartet (both OK) and Yale Quartet (excellent); violin sonatas/Verhey (forgettable); piano trios/Trio Zingara (at times very good) etc. I only listened to the Yale Quartet and the Trio Zingara CDs.

This set was reissued with paper-sleeves at least twice. There was a change at least as regards the late string quartets though, where Yale was substituted by Medici.
2) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Masterworks-Various/dp/B00062FLHE
3) http://www.amazon.fr/Beethoven-Masterworks-coffret-40-CD/dp/B000RJK4IM

Here´s a track list, though without timings and in the Medici Quartet-only set:
http://plade-klassikeren.dk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=22&products_id=904483

Then came an *85 CD complete Beethoven set*:
4) http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Edition-Complete-Works-85CD/dp/B000VBNRE4
There were major changes as regards the artists:
symphonies/Masur (I suppose they are OK); sonatas/early Gulda (often rather classically slender and somewhat dry, not very much to my liking); piano concertos/early Gulda (probably OK); cello sonatas/Schiff,Fellner (probably good), string quartets/Guarneri (probably good); piano trios/Borodin (good); violin sonatas/Grumiaux,Haskil (good), etc. Overall, I´d call this a major improvement in relation to the 40 CD set.
There´s a detailed track listing here:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Page?pageName=pages/beethovenedition.html

There´s also a *slim paper sleeve 85 CD edition*, which seems to be slightly different:
5) http://www.brilliantclassics.com/release.aspx?id=FM00391023
The Brilliant Classics site mentions Blomstedt in the symphonies and early Brendel in the sonatas here ... I´d however prefer Masur and Gulda.

Then the *100 CD issue*, apparently not much available now; it has always been a bit more expensive. The historical supplement is listed in an amazon review here:
6) http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B000VHTS3C/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
it should be mentioned though, that most of the historical recordings are available cheaply separately, the recommendable COMPLETE Schnabel Beethoven sonatas can go down to as little as 8 Euros / 10 $ sometimes in the "Membran" label set, for instance.


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## macgeek2005

I just received the 45 volume Complete Mozart edition today... oh man... it was worth EVERY penny. This is beyond belief. I could get lost in this for years.

Joen_cph, thank you for all the information about the Beethoven sets! I'll definitely be referring to your post when it comes time to buy one!


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## UberB

Do not buy complete works sets. Complete works sets are even worse than complete sets of say Beethoven's Symphonies or whatever, because not only do you often get second-rate performances of masterpieces, but you also get second-rate performances of second-rate pieces. Buying complete works sets is probably the worst way to get into classical music IMO.

If you need them for studying then I suppose that's a different matter, but for listening enjoyment it's definitely better to get individual recordings for 2 reasons:

1. Better performances
2. Gives you time to get acquainted with and truly understand (read: truly appreciate) a work instead of just breezing through it a few times and then moving on to another piece in the box set.

If you are looking for good Beethoven and Bach performances, I can make a few recommendations:

Beethoven:
1. Kleiber's 5th and 7th symphony on DG
2. Gilels/Ludwig for the 4th and 5th piano concerto on EMI, the 4th particularly stands out as IMO the greatest performance of this work, and the 5th is extremely solid
3. The Waldstein, Appassionata, Les Adieux, Moonlight and Pathetique sonatas by Gilels on 2 DG discs. The incomplete set is pretty good but the late sonatas (29, 30, 31, 32) are a bit of a letdown because they were recorded when Gilels was past his prime. The Waldstein and the Op. 101 particularly stand out.
4. Richter in Leipzig for the last 3 Beethoven sonatas. It is a live recording and is in mono, but the performances are unbelievable. IMO, easily the greatest performances of Op. 109 and Op. 111.
5. Fricsay on DG for the 9th symphony
6. Pollini for the last 5 beethoven sonatas on DG. These performances are probably the best in stereo sound but if you are a big fan of these works you owe it to yourself to hear Richter.
7. String Quartets. I'm not too familiar with chamber music but I quite enjoyed the complete set by Quartetto Italiano. On the other hand I found the much regarded Takacs set and Alban Berg sets to be extremely boring.

Bach:
1. Both of Gould's Goldbergs
2. Richter's WTC
3. Rostropovich's Cello Suites
4. Szeryng's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin
5. I can't help you for the B minor mass, the Italian Concerto, or the Brandenburgs as I have not heard them myself. I would however recommend staying away from the Art of Fugue at first because it is probably Bach's least accessible masterpiece.

If you need help finding any of these recordings on Amazon, I would be glad to help.


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## bigshot

I've discovered great things in my Brilliant Classics Mozart set that I never would have heard if I just stuck to individual releases. The fun of the box sets is the exploration of the unknown. And I haven't found any poor recordings yet. They may not be the best of the best, but everyone is going to have different ideas on that. It's interesting for me to hear a variety of HIP performances since most of my collection of individual pieces is big band Mozart.


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## UberB

bigshot said:


> I've discovered great things in my Brilliant Classics Mozart set that I never would have heard if I just stuck to individual releases. *The fun of the box sets is the exploration of the unknown.* And I haven't found any poor recordings yet. They may not be the best of the best, but everyone is going to have different ideas on that. It's interesting for me to hear a variety of HIP performances since most of my collection of individual pieces is big band Mozart.


I completely agree. In fact I would say that the whole fun of listening to classical music is the exploration of the unknown. But since the standard repertoire is so large, is there really a need to listen the complete works of one composer, when you can listen to a large variety of many? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a person who only listens to the "best hits" of every composer and then discards the rest. But rather than digging into every work that Mozart ever wrote, would it not be better to be able to understand and appreciate a variety of styles from different composers? I am not saying that you should sacrifice breadth for depth. But I think that there comes a point, when you are listening to that obscure piece that is obscure for a reason, perhaps that time could be better spent elsewhere. You are missing a lot if you only listen to Mozart, Beethoven and Bach, this I know from experience.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

tgtr0660 said:


> I'm waiting and saving all I can for when one day they release the set of the complete works by Anton Webern...


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## bigshot

I have a theory on listening to everything an artist or composer creates vs picking and choosing... For the vast majority of artists, picking and choosing is the best bet. But there's a handful of musicians- Bach, Ellington, Mozart, Armstrong, etc.- where even the lesser works are interesting. There aren't a lot of artists worth this kind of depth, but the ones that are are important enough to merit the time and trouble should be viewed in their totality.


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## alexc

Great deal on new complete Beethoven piano sonatas recording... Highly recommend it!
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/beethoven-complete-piano-sonatas/id525810495
Only $9.99 for all of the Beethoven piano sonatas! It's a new recording played by HJ Lim, released by EMI Classics

Here's a video of her as well (there's a bunch more on YouTube):


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## mensch

I had the habit of acquiring the Complete Works of a given composer just out of convenience. Sadly, most "Complete" cycles are very uneven in quality. I've replaced a lot of recordings with better versions, often from performers I appreciate more.

Take the Complete Works of Frédéric Chopin released by Deutsche Gramophone for example, which features a range of artists and the subsequent quality is rather uneven for my tastes. Maurizio Pollini's rendition of the Études is favored by a lot of people (myself not included), but he also plays two of the Sonatas and he's not the right man for the job, I must say.

I now own the Garrick Ohlsson cycle of Chopin's works and it's a much better experience.

In most cases one would be better of selecting the best recordings by multiple artists, but the monstrous Liszt project (in scope, not quality) by Leslie Howard is in a league of its own.


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## Polyphemus

I generally advise people to avoid these repackaging's like the plague. Far better to do the research and buy the best available. A little more expensive perhaps but more rewarding eventually. Never be afraid to experiment though. Does anyone remember The Gramophone Recommended Recordings, a treasure house for the beginner and experienced collector alike.


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## bigshot

There is nothing wrong with the Brilliant Classics and old Philips Mozart boxes. And the old DGG and new Brilliant Classics Beethoven sets are good. Same goes for the Hannsler and Brilliant Classics Bach. The Barenboim complete Wagner opera box is a spectacular deal with good performances too.

Penguin Guide is outdated. These mega boxes would be getting rosettes and lots of stars if it was kept up to date.


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## mensch

bigshot said:


> There is nothing wrong with the Brilliant Classics and old Philips Mozart boxes. And the old DGG and new Brilliant Classics Beethoven sets are good. Same goes for the Hannsler and Brilliant Classics Bach. The Barenboim complete Wagner opera box is a spectacular deal with good performances too.


The Brilliant Classics' Chopin collection introduced me fully to classical music, it also included some good quality performances along with some uneven ones. Also, the recording quality differs wildly from disc to disc. A lot of material was recorded for that particular collection, but some of it was licensed. So a disc of freshly recorded Impromptus would feature some Mazurkas recorded on a Pleyel in the eighties, with very different sonority and sound engineering.

The problem is that you have to know what you're buying. I would advise against buying the complete Schubert collection from Brilliant Classics. Yes, you get everything Maestro Franz has ever written, but judged on an individual basis you will find better performances of most pieces.


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## Sonata

Mahler's EMI complete set is fantastic so far.... I've not listened to all the CDs yet, probably 6-7 (out of 16). Good quality sound, great performance, wonderful composer.


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## Renaissance

Brilliant Classics Editions are priceless for a serious classical music collector. Maybe not all the recordings are top-notch, but many of them are good, same very good, and few are mediocre. Off course you can find individual recordings for everything you are interested in, but it all comes in time and money. Not to mention that you won't find any work on single CDs. With the same amount of money you can have a 100 CD box set (from which 30 are very good, 50 good and the rest of an average quality - it's only an estimation) or you can have 10 or less top-quality recordings. I prefer the first option since it is the easiest way to fill the gaps in a classical music collection, and if in that set I find recordings I don't like, I can replace them with individual CDs. It still costs you less, and you still have all that works that you can't find in the usual stores. 

This is how I "attack" this problem when the box-set is of a good value. It is not less true that there are box-sets of poor quality , old recordings which is not worth buying, even if they are cheap. But with the Brilliant Classics Complete Editions such as Bach's and Beethoven's (I own them both and I am very satisfied) you can't go wrong. Instead, there are some Complete Editions that need some replacements, such as Vivaldi's and Brahms's. (especially concertos)


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## joen_cph

Renaissance said:


> Brilliant Classics Editions are priceless for a serious classical music collector. Maybe not all the recordings are top-notch, but many of them are good, same very good, and few are mediocre. Off course you can find individual recordings for everything you are interested in, but it all comes in time and money. Not to mention that you won't find any work on single CDs. With the same amount of money you can have a 100 CD box set (from which 30 are very good, 50 good and the rest of an average quality - it's only an estimation) or you can have 10 or less top-quality recordings. I prefer the first option since it is the easiest way to fill the gaps in a classical music collection, and if in that set I find recordings I don't like, I can replace them with individual CDs. It still costs you less, and you still have all that works that you can't find in the usual stores.
> 
> This is how I "attack" this problem when de box-set is of a good value. It is not less true that there are box-sets of poor quality , old recordings which is not worth buying, even if they are cheap. But with the Brilliant Classics Complete Editions such as Bach's and Beethoven's (I own them both and I am very satisfied) you can't go wrong.


Sorry, out of curiosity: Brilliant Classics go for very different prices throughout Europe, I´ve noticed - from around 3€ to 6€ per CD, how is it like in Romania, if you are based there ?


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## Renaissance

joen_cph said:


> Sorry, out of curiosity: Brilliant Classics go for very different prices throughout Europe, I´ve noticed - from around 3€ to 6€ per CD, how is it like in Romania, if you are based there ?


I know... I bought the Complete Beethoven's (85CD) for 75€, and Bach's (160CD) for 150 €. So, less then 1€/CD. But I haven't bought them from amazon.uk, which has a pretty big price, about 3€/CD for Beethoven's box, like you said. Instead, on amazon.com you can find them cheaper, somewhere around 1€/CD, which is a really bargain.


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## joen_cph

Aha. Interesting, and cheap ...
The most inexpensive countries for ordinary shopping I´ve found were Denmark (!) and Italy (Rome). 
Yes, I remember the real "steals" too - the Beethoven set going for down to about about 120 €, and the 100 CD with Russian Musicians for down to € 75, but not so cheap as you´ve seen them.


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## Renaissance

joen_cph said:


> Aha. Interesting, and cheap ...
> The most inexpensive countries for ordinary shopping I´ve found were Denmark (!) and Italy (Rome).
> Yes, I remember the real "steals" too - the Beethoven set going for down to about about 120 €, and the 100 CD with Russian Musicians for down to € 75, but not so cheap as you´ve seen them.


Right now on amazon.com, Beethoven Edition can be found at 100 $. Which means €1/CD.  In Europe, I've seen huge prices, especially in UK and Germany.


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## BurningDesire

There is a brilliant CD, Varese: The Complete Works, performed by Riccardo Chailly and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra ans ASKO Ensemble, which has all of Varese's surviving pieces performed gorgeously (though the electronic parts of Deserts sound a bit off, like the speakers distorted, there's a really good recording of that one on Naxos). I believe it is out of print, I had to hunt down a more affordable copy, but really, its amazing stuff. It was released on London, 2 discs.


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## powerbooks

There are two complete Brahms editions couple years ago, from DGG and Brilliant Classics. Both are decent, and complementary to each other for some odd missing pieces.

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/single?PRODUCT_NR=4778183








http://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Edition-Complete-Works-Johannes/dp/B0015XAT0M








Both used to be pretty cheap at less than $2 per disc. Not sure if you can find a good deal nowadays.


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## GiulioCesare

Allow me to bump this thread, as the lasts posts are relevant to my question. 

The Brilliant Classics Brahms Complete Works set seems to be discontinued. What gives? Does anybody know the reason/whether it'll be available new any time soon?


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## realdealblues

GiulioCesare said:


> Allow me to bump this thread, as the lasts posts are relevant to my question.
> 
> The Brilliant Classics Brahms Complete Works set seems to be discontinued. What gives? Does anybody know the reason/whether it'll be available new any time soon?


Not for sure but my guess is they are probably working on updating it with some different recordings before re-releasing it. Seems like they did the same thing with the Beethoven one.


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## KRoad

In case anyone is interested, the new Brilliant Beethoven Complete Edition is currently selling for €49.00 at Tchibo (on Kant str.) here in Berlin. Although I already have the older edition, I just had to pick this one up, too. A lot of the recordings are new/different and at this price does it really matter if a few (and I do mean just a few) of the recordings/performances are less than five star?


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## joen_cph

KRoad said:


> In case anyone is interested, the new Brilliant Beethoven Complete Edition is currently selling for €49.00 at Tchibo (on Kant str.) here in Berlin. Although I already have the older edition, I just had to pick this one up, too. A lot of the recordings are new/different and at this price does it really matter if a few (and I do mean just a few) of the recordings/performances are less than five star?


For mail order, it seems that only the Bach box 157CD €80 is available right now. 
I´ll be getting the Beethoven some time.


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## SixFootScowl

A complete Beethoven set is always a good idea for every collection. Here's one with 85 disks (Summary from back of box):










This one slightly different (contents):









There are more packagings and slight differences in content. For example, I have this one with 87 CDs but the symphonies are a mish mash, whereas the one above is all the same conductor and a good one too. But I am not complaining since I paid ~$25 shipped for new with slight damage to the box.










Perhaps the best one is the DG 87 CD set, but that could be very expensive. $1788 used on Amazon.


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## premont

Fritz Kobus said:


> For example, I have this one with 87 CDs but the symphonies are a mish mash, whereas the one above is all the same conductor and a good one too. But I am not complaining since I paid ~$25 shipped for new with slight damage to the box.


I would definitely advice against this set. The editing is often unprofessional and too many of the recordings are subpar. Well, you get some of Tomsic's Beethoven piano sonatas and some of Buchbinder's Beethoven piano variaions, but not enough goodies to "pay" the expense, unless you find a very cheap item.


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## staxomega

I had Brilliant Classics Beethoven Masterworks box (green box) and sold it after making it through most of it, many of the performances were quite subpar. I have one of Brilliant Classics JS Bach sitting in a closet at my parents, I made it through less of that but was also unimpressed. 

There is no longer any reason to buy the $1000+ Mozart Philips set since Universal have put out a Mozart 225 box that has considerable overlap and can be had for well under $300 when Amazon does sales. I don't have either, I have downloaded the PDF contents book for the latter and am familiar with many of the performances and at this level comes down to more personal taste.


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## vincentfernandes

Hi everyone, back after six years.

I'd love to start listening to complete works of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and Haydn, and although the different box sets are very welcome, it's taking me too much time to find out who performs what on most of these sets. Could anyone here tell me which sets I should choose if I want as much as possible performed on modern instruments?


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## Itullian

This set just dropped to under 97.00$.
Great artists in modern sound.


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## vincentfernandes

Apologies if this is a stupid question. Why has no label released a complete Handel set yet? Um, and why are some of Mozart's early symphonies missing from Brilliant's "complete" set?


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## Axiomatic

vincentfernandes said:


> Apologies if this is a stupid question. Why has no label released a complete Handel set yet? Um, and why are some of Mozart's early symphonies missing from Brilliant's "complete" set?


My guess would be: 2 & 3 no longer attributed to young Wolfgang, 7 on CD 130 as sinfonia to _La finta semplice_, and 11 disputed authorship (which might seem like slim grounds for omitting it, though I'm no expert and maybe the dispute is over).


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## joen_cph

staxomega said:


> I had *Brilliant Classics Beethoven Masterworks box (green box) *and sold it after making it through most of it, many of the performances were quite subpar (...)


Me too, but they keep changing the content of such boxes, even the selection in the 40 CD ones. From that one, I kept the late string quartets with the Yale Quartet, and the piano trios with the Trio Zingara, both interesting recordings.

I also sold almost all of the content of an old *Bach Masterworks 40 CD *box (but some of their newer editions are better). I've kept most of the content of the old *40 CD Vivaldi* and *Händel boxes*. I kept the* Mendelssohn 40 CD *box

As for 'Complete Works' Brilliant boxes, I have - and plan to keep - a *Beethoven *one, a *Mozart *one, and a *Frescobaldi *one. Plus many box anthologies, such as *Telemann*, *CPE Bach*, *Romantic Piano Concertos*, _Russian Piano Concertos_, _French Piano Concertos_, _Russian Chamber Music_, and others.

I sold the smaller Brilliant *Corelli Complete Works 11 CD *one, not really liking the hurried HIP recordings with small forces in it.


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## flamencosketches

vincentfernandes said:


> Apologies if this is a stupid question. Why has no label released a complete Handel set yet? Um, and why are some of Mozart's early symphonies missing from Brilliant's "complete" set?


Handel wrote way too much music for a complete set to ever be profitable, plus a very good chunk of it has not been performed in over 200 years. I think the closest would be the 65 disc Brilliant edition, which probably covers only about 10% of his complete works.


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## vincentfernandes

Why have pieces by Handel not been performed for such a long time? I thought he was considered one of the greats?


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## flamencosketches

vincentfernandes said:


> Why have pieces by Handel not been performed for such a long time? I thought he was considered one of the greats?


He is. I believe a lot of the scores have been lost. Also, many of these "pieces" are actually 4-hour long operas that are difficult and expensive to put on. A lot of them have been "rediscovered" over the past 20 years or so, but there is still a lot of progress to be made.


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## vincentfernandes

Wow, I am really amazed to hear that!

To go back to Bach and Mozart's complete works... I'm a bit at a loss how to proceed. It is clear by now that I'm going to have to hunt down individual recordings to get the best performances, which will be an adventure, but I really don't understand why these sets differ in content. For instance: the beautiful symphony 52 is missing from Brilliant and I'm pretty sure that the Bach Hänssler set has 30 more discs than the Brilliant one. On the other hand, I'm really liking the booklets that come with the Brilliant sets. It seems weird that they go for 90% completeness. So in short: which sets should I use as a guide for Bach and Mozart?


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## CnC Bartok

Probably both the slimmest, and yet currently most expensive Complete Works set for any composer I can find:


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## joen_cph

CnC Bartok said:


> Probably both the slimmest, and yet currently most expensive Complete Works set for any composer I can find:
> 
> View attachment 145206


However, it's not complete 
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7939096--the-uncovered-ruggles

like a lot of other boxes, including the CPO Barraque set, or the DG Boulez set.


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