# Hardest instrument to master discussion



## playpiano

I want to know what you think the hardest insturment to master is


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## Ingélou

I have no idea, really. The violin seems pretty hard to me (I'm taking lessons) but then I think of brass instruments where you have to use your lips - or something like the Welsh triple harp. 'Mastering' an instrument is probably not done often by amateurs. The best I can hope for is 'not sounding too bad'. So let's hope that some skilled musicians with experience of playing different types of instruments can answer your question. I look forward to reading their expert opinions!


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## Taggart

Basically two different sorts of problem - one is note production - strings and blown instruments where you have to make the correct tone by finger position or mouth position - the other is co-ordination where you have to get your hands (and possibly feet) working together. There's also the question of what you feel comfortable with and what you enjoy.

All instruments are difficult to master but I think the organ presents most challenges in terms of co-ordination - multiple manuals, choice of stops and also the foot work.

What's your own instrument?


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## PetrB

*Your question is instantly rendered moot by the word, "Master."*

When it comes to complete technical and musical mastery, no one instrument will ever 'top the list' of "which is more difficult to master."


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## playpiano

i play piano as my main instrument and have recetly started learning violin and flute, and when i say master i mean become a grade 8 standard, or a virtuoso, basically which instrument takes the longest to know inside out


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## PetrB

playpiano said:


> i play piano as my main instrument and have recetly started learning violin and flute, and when i say master i mean become a grade 8 standard, or a virtuoso, basically which instrument takes the longest to know inside out


LOL. "Grade 8" is nowhere near audition and get hired level for any professional symphony orchestra, or when one is just ready to play the Tchaikovsky or Elizabeth of Belgium piano competitions.

For a beginner, or one youngish to the piano, I suppose "Grade Eight" is some sort of pinnacle -- take my word for it, that is still the long miles of the flatlands before the foothills before the mountains, all fist before you scale the pinnacle of Mt. Everest.

Grade Eight, if I'm not mistaken, is enough to help you gain admission to a college music department... a start, then, at another beginner's level, and not a stop at a high plateau.

Virtuoso: another lightly bandied about word, of late, it seems.
Of all the professional classical player / performers in the world, only a tiny handful are worthy to be called true virtuosi.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I would say something like the theremin, or maybe the hyperbass flute.


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## playpiano

PetrB said:


> LOL. "Grade 8" is nowhere near audition and get hired level for any professional symphony orchestra, or when one is just ready to play the Tchaikovsky or Elizabeth of Belgium piano competitions.
> 
> For a beginner, or one youngish to the piano, I suppose "Grade Eight" is some sort of pinnacle -- take my word for it, that is still the long miles of the flatlands before the foothills before the mountains, all fist before you scale the pinnacle of Mt. Everest.
> 
> Grade Eight, if I'm not mistaken, is enough to help you gain admission to a college music department... a start, then, at another beginner's level, and not a stop at a high plateau.
> 
> Virtuoso: another lightly bandied about word, of late, it seems.
> Of all the professional classical player / performers in the world, only a tiny handful are worthy to be called true virtuosi.


Erm chill out, im not an idiot and know what im talking about, i totally undertsand that people who are accepted in to prefessional orchestras are way above the grade 8 standard but at the same time you cant assume that people who are at the grade 8 standard arent good enough because you'd be wrong. And to be honest I think any proffeional should be classed as a virtuoso becasue they wouldnt have become a proffesional if they werent good at their instrument. And the hallle youth orchetsra in manchester is a proffessional orchetra and accept teens who are grade 6 or above so its technically not true that proffesional orcheras ONLY take on musicians that are way above grade 8 which is what you were saying


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## Taggart

Part of the problem is sight reading. Yes, somebody at grade 8 can make a reasonable fist of something after a fair amount of work. The trick is to be able to play the same piece at performance level at sight. That's at least three years on from grade 8. Not to disparage youth orchestras, but they do a lot of work on their pieces -it isn't just one or two rehearsals (where everybody will be note perfect anyway) and then on with the show. As you get "better", you will be able to sight read harder and harder pieces - that's where the "mastery" comes in (pace PetrB).


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## Jobis

Taggart said:


> Part of the problem is sight reading. Yes, somebody at grade 8 can make a reasonable fist of something after a fair amount of work. The trick is to be able to play the same piece at performance level at sight. That's at least three years on from grade 8. Not to disparage youth orchestras, but they do a lot of work on their pieces -it isn't just one or two rehearsals (where everybody will be note perfect anyway) and then on with the show. As you get "better", you will be able to sight read harder and harder pieces - that's where the "mastery" comes in (pace PetrB).


So would something like the organ be hardest to master because you need to read several lines of music at once, much more difficult to sight read than say a single line.


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## Taggart

Jobis said:


> So would something like the organ be hardest to master because you need to read several lines of music at once, much more difficult to sight read than say a single line.


Not especially that. If you're playing piano accompaniment, you will have the main instrument line to look at as well as your own; if you're playing off a lead sheet you have to work out the chord progressions; if you're playing continuo, you have to follow the main line and fill in as you go along.

If you went down that route, the worst instrument to "play" is the symphony orchestra - just think of the number of lines in a full orchestral score! 

Organ and harpsichord both have their own challenges - organ through voluntaries and harpsichord through figured bass but the number of lines shouldn't be a problem - most pianists should be able to cope with an open SATB score including the tenor in the treble clef but an octave lower - it's just a matter of reading the music. The trick is then to play it!


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## mtmailey

What comes to mind the organ because one use the feet to play & hands on to rows of keys sometimes even 4 rows or manuals.


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## hreichgott

French horn.



extra characters


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## Rehydration

French horn becomes easier with practice, but currently it's the most difficult for me to play.
Oboe was in the Guinness Book of World Records alongside the horn for the most difficult instruments to play.
If you know your way around the piano you could probably progress straight to organ like I did.  Playing the pedals is the hardest part.


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## Shieldzy

I feel like the Clarinet is hardest to play. Not only do you have a reed bothering you but that reed hates being wrongly played. If you do not have your mouth correctly on it, it will squeak or make noises that are sure to burst your eardrums. Even having the wrong reed size is a problem. When you first learn it, it can take years to get rid of that flat "peliminary grader" sound. You need a LOT of air capacity, especially if you are learning notes above high C (altissimo register) and even trying to play loud in a band is a problem. It goes flat easily. It's very embarrassing as a beginner because you squeak A LOT. It takes a while to figure out where to put your mouth on the reed. It leaves bite marks on your lower lip and the reeds easily break and crack. Once broken, you're screwed, you need a new reed. Which is also hard because not all reeds are perfect. You could get 20 reeds and only one of them matches the way you play or it will feel comfortable. Brass are lucky. Their mouthpieces don't get thicker or harder to play. Clarinet (and sax) reeds get thicker. A substitute clarinet teacher I had told me she had a 5 SIZED REED!!! I literally shat myself. Back then I could barely play a 2 (shadap I was a grade 1 back then) she even proved it to me. It requires tough face muscles and a good airflow. Secondly, you need PERFECT finger co ordination otherwise the note will not come out properly or sound ****...or SQUEAK. Also the Altissimo fingerings are awkward as hell. Thirdly, it's hard enough blowing through it now imagine having to adjust air flow and lip pressure just to get your note right. It's hard. And every other wind instrument (except sax) can double tongue EASILY. But clarinet (and sax)...NOPE. With a big *** mouthpiece in your mouth, your tongue has minimal space to move around, making it hard to learn to double tongue and f**king triple tongue. We are taught to single young f**king demisemi quavers...what a NIGHTMARE. Learning altissimo notes are a nightmare. Their jumping around flat and sharp. You also have nearly 4 octaves. That's a lot of notes to remember. And one more thing, clarinets need the perfect temperature to be the perfect pitch. This means either warming or cooling the clarinet. It's hard to achieve the perfect note. Reeds are the same. It depends on what environment you have as to what reed you will play. Thicker or thinner? Really hard. So there you have it, the hardest instrument to play.


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## Pugg

Shieldzy said:


> I feel like the Clarinet is hardest to play. Not only do you have a reed bothering you but that reed hates being wrongly played. If you do not have your mouth correctly on it, it will squeak or make noises that are sure to burst your eardrums. Even having the wrong reed size is a problem. When you first learn it, it can take years to get rid of that flat "peliminary grader" sound. You need a LOT of air capacity, especially if you are learning notes above high C (altissimo register) and even trying to play loud in a band is a problem. It goes flat easily. It's very embarrassing as a beginner because you squeak A LOT. It takes a while to figure out where to put your mouth on the reed. It leaves bite marks on your lower lip and the reeds easily break and crack. Once broken, you're screwed, you need a new reed. Which is also hard because not all reeds are perfect. You could get 20 reeds and only one of them matches the way you play or it will feel comfortable. Brass are lucky. Their mouthpieces don't get thicker or harder to play. Clarinet (and sax) reeds get thicker. A substitute clarinet teacher I had told me she had a 5 SIZED REED!!! I literally shat myself. Back then I could barely play a 2 (shadap I was a grade 1 back then) she even proved it to me. It requires tough face muscles and a good airflow. Secondly, you need PERFECT finger co ordination otherwise the note will not come out properly or sound ****...or SQUEAK. Also the Altissimo fingerings are awkward as hell. Thirdly, it's hard enough blowing through it now imagine having to adjust air flow and lip pressure just to get your note right. It's hard. And every other wind instrument (except sax) can double tongue EASILY. But clarinet (and sax)...NOPE. With a big *** mouthpiece in your mouth, your tongue has minimal space to move around, making it hard to learn to double tongue and f**king triple tongue. We are taught to single young f**king demisemi quavers...what a NIGHTMARE. Learning altissimo notes are a nightmare. Their jumping around flat and sharp. You also have nearly 4 octaves. That's a lot of notes to remember. And one more thing, clarinets need the perfect temperature to be the perfect pitch. This means either warming or cooling the clarinet. It's hard to achieve the perfect note. Reeds are the same. It depends on what environment you have as to what reed you will play. Thicker or thinner? Really hard. So there you have it, the hardest instrument to play.


I do hope O.P does read this , dates from 2013 and never been seen again.
Welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


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## hpowders

I played clarinet. Sure it's hard to get really good at it, but so is every other orchestral instrument.

I would think bassoon and oboe are a bit harder to master than clarinet.


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## Guest

A good mouthpiece is very important and not easy to find. (there are so many) and a reed sized 5 ,I would not think about it.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

How does one measure the relative difficulty of learning to play two instruments? Sure, we can all agree that learning the oboe is harder than learning the triangle but once you get past the simple "hit-something-with-a-stick" technique, it's hard to compare relative difficulty. Each instrument has its own challenges.


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## hpowders

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> How does one measure the relative difficulty of learning to play two instruments? Sure, we can all agree that learning the oboe is harder than learning the triangle but once you get past the simple "hit-something-with-a-stick" technique, it's hard to compare relative difficulty. Each instrument has its own challenges.


Well, from what I've heard, double reed instruments such as the oboe and bassoon are the hardest to master, of all the wind instruments.

There is no oboist worth his/her salt who does not make his/her own reeds. Add THAT burden of time spent to the usual practice time and one becomes a slave to the oboe, if one wants to master it.

For clarinet, I would always be able to buy reeds. I would throw away 75% of them, approximately, but at least I didn't have to make my own.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

hpowders said:


> Well, from what I've heard, double reed instruments such as the oboe and bassoon are the hardest to master, of all the wind instruments.
> 
> There is no oboist worth his/her salt who does not make his/her own reeds. Add THAT burden of time spent to the usual practice time and one becomes a slave to the oboe, if one wants to master it.
> 
> For clarinet, I would always be able to buy reeds. I would throw away 75% of them, approximately, but at least I didn't have to make my own.


Making your own reed? Aren't there good reed makers out there? I guess you need to customize your reed for your instrument or/and playing technique?

But how do you measure relative difficulty of different groups of instrument? For example, which is hardest: violin, oboe or piano?


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## Heck148

to "master" any instrument is difficult...some instruments are fairly easy to pick up, and to produce a sound...but that is a long, long way from mastering the instrument...
you will find that whatever the instrument - composers have written music that tests the absolute limits of its capabilities...to achieve virtuoso, or master level on any instrument takes years and years of practice and performing. 
some instruments come with extra "baggage" - oboe, bassoon require fine reeds, and reed-making is an absolutely essential part of the learning process...
playing any instrument is demanding, and requires us to use all manner of human skills and aptitudes to be successful - hearing, breathing, posture, dexterity, physical coordination, concentration, knowledge, etc, etc....


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## Heck148

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Making your own reed? Aren't there good reed makers out there? I guess you need to customize your reed for your instrument or/and playing technique?


Absolutely - making your own reeds is an essential, mandatory part of the process,at least for 2ble reeds. Your reeds produce and represent virtually every aspect of performance - tone, articulation, expression, range, flexibility, etc, etc..
In past years, some bassoonists had their reeds made by others, but that practice, TMK, is long gone among professionals. Everyone makes his/her own reeds.
there are commercial reeds available, but by and large, they are terrible, and no professional would consider using them. some specialty shops make them, and try to make them to certain standards complicit with professional level performance, but I've never found them to be satisfactory for me..
Reeds are extremely personal...to each his own...


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## hpowders

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Making your own reed? Aren't there good reed makers out there? I guess you need to customize your reed for your instrument or/and playing technique?
> 
> But how do you measure relative difficulty of different groups of instrument? For example, which is hardest: violin, oboe or piano?


The best players such as orchestra principals make their own. There is nobody more fanatical about getting a reed "just right" than a first chair oboe player.


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## hpowders

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Making your own reed? Aren't there good reed makers out there? I guess you need to customize your reed for your instrument or/and playing technique?
> 
> But how do you measure relative difficulty of different groups of instrument? For example, which is hardest: violin, oboe or piano?


Well, one can hire someone to get a piano in tune. The oboist and violinist must do it themselves as they play.

A pianist and violinist don't have to worry about breath control.

The violinist must be able to play double and triple stops completely in tune.

The pianist has to be able to control two hands playing different things at different times and cannot be early or late with either hand.

So each instrument has its difficulties.

When the Gomberg brothers, Ralph and Harold, were principal oboists of the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic respectively, they had the status of superstars of their orchestras.

I have no doubt that they are all equally difficult to master, but if I had to choose only one, it would be oboe. Breath-control, intonation, so many exposed orchestral solos to master, reed-making. It's a 24/7 instrument.

Message to my spell-checker: If I meant "Romberg", I would have typed "ROMBERG!!!


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## Heck148

hpowders said:


> When the Gomberg brothers, Ralph and Harold, were principal oboists of the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic respectively, they had the status of superstars of their orchestras.


Harold Gomberg [NYPO] the older brother is one of the greatest of all musical artists. He had a huge sound, wonderful control technique, and legato, singing style...
I remember an interesting tale about reeds - Harold was a big, burly, strong guy, and he played heavy reeds. Nobody else could play on them!! his students would try, but they couldn't control it. 
One of them asked Ralph - he's your brother, how does Harold do it, what's the secret??
Ralph responded that he had no idea, he'd lived with his brother, been with him forever, but he didn't know, he couldn't play his reeds either!!


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## Krummhorn

I'll second that the classical traditional organ is rather difficult. You're reading three lines, one in treble and the other two in bass clefs, two hands and two feet playing quite different notes all at the same time. And that doesn't take into account registration of the proper stops, adding stops, removing stops, hitting pistons, reversible couplers, and other standard features found on most church consoles.

I'm starting my 56 year as a professional church organist and still learning the craft. I still have much more to learn and the day that I stop learning is the day I keel over in my soup bowl on the dining table. I have the fortune of playing for one of the largest Lutheran parishes in my region - and a wonderfully equipped 2 manual/pedal organ console to command over:


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## Pugg

Traverso said:


> A good mouthpiece is very important and not easy to find. (there are so many) and a reed sized 5 ,I would not think about it.


And good strong teat is also a priority.


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## pcnog11

playpiano said:


> I want to know what you think the hardest insturment to master is


Any instrument played at the professional level is hard to master.


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## Dan Ante

They are all impossible to master, but the easiest ..... well years ago when I turned up for my first flute lesson the teacher asked why I had chosen the flute, I said I thought it would be the easiest she replied well its the easiest to play badly. Red Face.


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## Dan Ante

Just an after thought, which has a very tenuous link to the OPs question.
I have two friends that used to play Oboe and they said whereas with the Flute and Clarinet you are fighting to get air into your lungs with the Oboe you are fighting to expel air, which is much harder also it is much worse for your neighbors to have a learner Oboist next door compared to a young laddie learning Flute.


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## Heck148

expulsion of air thru the oboe is a difficulty of that instrument - the aperture/opening of the bocal is very small....very little air can be pushed thru it, very high resistance. oboists have to "exhaust" the stale air, and get a fresh breath frequently...flute, bassoon, contrabassoon have the opposite problem - relatively little resistance, air just rushes thru the instrument -


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## Dan Ante

I deleted my post as I misunderstood you, Sorry


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## Larkenfield

playpiano said:


> i play piano as my main instrument and have recetly started learning violin and flute, and when i say master i mean become a grade 8 standard, or a virtuoso, basically which instrument takes the longest to know inside out


 If you're thinking about time and dividing your talents for too long, you'll probably have difficulty mastering any of them, unless you're willing to settle for being competent. Perhaps a better question is, which instrument do you enjoy the most and have the best chance of mastering? Which instrument do you have the most natural feel for? Being a virtuoso on any instrument generally requires a Master Teacher. It's not enough to imagine yourself a genius, if you do; that gift has to be developed through rigorous and systematic formal training, but not necessarily in a music conservatory. For reference, look into the backgrounds of the greatest virtuosos in the world, who they studied with and for how long, because most likely that's the effort it takes to become a world-class virtuoso musician. The competition is fierce on just about any instrument, but the rewards can be incredible and justify the effort.

:angel:


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## Dan Ante

Yes you are 100% right Larkenfield “competency” is perhaps the minimum starting point, not wishing to offend anyone but you need to be more than competent to even be a rank and file musician, let alone a soloist or section leader. 
A Virtuoso is in a different world altogether.


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## philoctetes

Harmonica. 

Think having to use all your fingers and toes is hard? How about not being able to use them at all? Just use your lips, tongue and diaphragm.

The art of bending is unique and sometimes difficult. Try getting a middle Eb on an (unaltered) C diatonic, it's nearly impossible but don't say it can't be done. 

Like to trim your reeds? You'll have to use a metal file for that. 

What other instrument plays by inhaling?


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## Marc

The human voice.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Judging by this video, it seems to be the triangle.


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## Nate Miller

there are 2 instruments that make no sense at all and if you had to figure out music only by sorting out how the instrument worked, you'd be completely lost

1) the chromatic harmonica: you get a different note whether you blow or draw, and you use the push lever to raise or lower the note you are blowing. The scale patterns make no sense and so its just hard to manage

2) anglo concertina: this 30 button nightmare also gives a different note on the draw and the push like the chromatic harmonica, but there is usually more than one way to get any particular note. the button rows are Key of C, Key of G and the accidentals. People usually play in D and even A major. Other more distant keys are either ridiculous or impossible. Dealing with the bellows while essentially playing a chromatic harmonica is just nuts. You need to either push or draw to get the note you want, but you also have to keep the bellows filled with air while not letting it run away from you

all instruments have their peculiarities, but I think these two would be the hardest to learn as a first instrument because they just don't make any sense


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## Pugg

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Judging by this video, it seems to be the triangle.


This is so hilarious but great nevertheless.


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## Guest

playpiano said:


> I want to know what you think the hardest insturment to master is


I think the OP was treated a little harshly by some members' interpretation of 'master' which I took to mean "get to know sufficiently well to manage it competently" and not "become a master".

It's a reasonable question to ask, especially if one is thinking of taking up an instrument but without any expectation of being a public performer.

Piano seems to me to be the easiest to get to the point where you can knock out a few tunes for your family (assuming you're not fussed about the pedals). It's not physically taxing.

So which would the opposite to piano be?


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## Nate Miller

MacLeod said:


> So which would the opposite to piano be?


a lot of people say violin is one of the hardest to learn. You have to learn what a pitch is just to get started, and then there is the bow to learn how to operate. Just getting out of first position is a challenge because you have to learn how to hold the instrument without using your left hand for support

and I never figured out how they can play with all that screetchy racket right there by their ear :lol:


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## E Cristobal Poveda

Marimba is certainly physically difficult to master. I used to get open blisters when I first started with four mallet technique, now I'm practicing six mallet!


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Nate Miller said:


> a lot of people say violin is one of the hardest to learn. You have to learn what a pitch is just to get started, and then there is the bow to learn how to operate. Just getting out of first position is a challenge because you have to learn how to hold the instrument without using your left hand for support
> 
> and I never figured out how they can play with all that screetchy racket right there by their ear :lol:


Playing beginner's pieces on the violin is quite easy. After all, the violin is mostly a single-line instrument. It's getting a good sound out of it that is the real challenge...
I've practised playing it in a small music institution for a few months, got my grade 1 ABRSM certificate, and threw the violin away. :lol:
The sound was unbearable!


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## Guest

Hand a person with minimal musical skill or experience a guitar and ask this person to pick out "Mary Had a Little Lamb" or "London Bridge is Falling Down." This person could probably start imperfectly plucking it out after a few minutes of practice. Sit this person down at a piano and request the same thing. I would say, again, after a few minutes this person would be able to tap it out with one finger fairly well. Same with a glockenspiel. Now hand them a trombone and make the same request. Do you think they could do it? I don't. Hand them a flute. Nope. How about a violin? I don't think so. Sax? Nope.

I would say the hardest are those where it takes a good amount of practice just to figure how to make a sound and, from there, play a scale.


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## Nate Miller

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Playing beginner's pieces on the violin is quite easy. After all, the violin is mostly a single-line instrument. It's getting a good sound out of it that is the real challenge...
> I've practised playing it in a small music institution for a few months, got my grade 1 ABRSM certificate, and threw the violin away. :lol:
> The sound was unbearable!


yes, and I play bluegrass fiddle and Irish trad, so I know first hand. They say a fiddle player has to have a very active fantasy life of they never make it through the first 15 years.

but lets be fair, playing beginner tunes for any instrument is easy. that is why they are beginner pieces.

but I already knew music when I picked up a fiddle. Imagine if you had no concept of what a "D" note even was? I think that is why people say violin is a hard instrument to learn. And if the sound is bad, that's all in the bow, so there's that to figure out, too. Got to be one of the more difficult ways to articulate your notes.

but violin is what people say

I already said chromatic harmonica was the hardest thing I ever tried, and a 30 button angle concertina comes in a close 2nd


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## Nate Miller

Victor Redseal said:


> Hand a person with minimal musical skill or experience a guitar and ask this person to pick out "Mary Had a Little Lamb" or "London Bridge is Falling Down." This person could probably start imperfectly plucking it out after a few minutes of practice. Sit this person down at a piano and request the same thing. I would say, again, after a few minutes this person would be able to tap it out with one finger fairly well. Same with a glockenspiel. Now hand them a trombone and make the same request. Do you think they could do it? I don't. Hand them a flute. Nope. How about a violin? I don't think so. Sax? Nope.
> 
> I would say the hardest are those where it takes a good amount of practice just to figure how to make a sound and, from there, play a scale.


yes, the whole brass family is like alchemy to me. I just don't get it. I have even played a bicycle pump in a recording session in NYC, but brass? forget it

trombone and French horn have got to be very hard to learn

but the musicians with the best ears always seem to be low brass players


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Nate Miller said:


> And if the sound is bad, that's all in the bow, so there's that to figure out, too.


Oh, it's not just the bow. The place of certain notes changes sometimes. I remember I had to play some notes slightly higher for major scales, and then play the same notes slightly lower for minor scales, even though they were the same notes (not flat or sharp.)

You don't have that problem with a piano. E will always be where it's always been.


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## malc

The Guitar is very hard , i also play cornet , which is difficult enough , but only one note at a time , the guitar to get polytonality to flow is a bit tough.


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## Nate Miller

one of the things about guitar, and what makes reading on the instrument so tricky, is that I can play middle C in 5 distinct places on the neck

it also is tuned in 4ths, but has the one place where its a major 3rd. Believe it or not, that actually makes voicing chords easier, but its another layer of trickiness

still, guitar has nothing on the 30 button anglo concertina


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## Guest

I had a few lessons on the trombone. It didn't seem too difficult to get started, easier than say a clarinet or violin that most of my friends were doing. I could play the theme of Dvorak 9's slow movement pretty quick.


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## Barbebleu

Clearly it's the bagpipes. Difficult to play and impossibly difficult to listen to! And I say this as a Scot and a former piper.


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## Dankid123

playpiano said:


> Erm chill out, im not an idiot and know what im talking about, i totally undertsand that people who are accepted in to prefessional orchestras are way above the grade 8 standard but at the same time you cant assume that people who are at the grade 8 standard arent good enough because you'd be wrong. And to be honest I think any proffeional should be classed as a virtuoso becasue they wouldnt have become a proffesional if they werent good at their instrument. And the hallle youth orchetsra in manchester is a proffessional orchetra and accept teens who are grade 6 or above so its technically not true that proffesional orcheras ONLY take on musicians that are way above grade 8 which is what you were saying


LOL you think that any youth orchestra would be anywhere near a professional orchestra? And then you think that any professional orchestra would accept "musicians" that haven't even gone through high school, not even get a college degree? XD If you think that you being in a "professional" youth orchestra makes you a "professional", and therefore a "virtuoso" you are wrong on so many aspects. A "professional" orchestra might rehearse 1 time before a concert, and can play the piece as well as a youth orchestra that has rehearsed the piece 10 times. You think getting a grade 8 means you're professional level? If it were that simple then there'd be thousands of "professionals" in the world. And if professional=virtuoso then there would be thousands of virtuosi in the world(which btw isn't true). And the closest any youth symphony would get to being professional would be the new jersey youth symphony...search it up and their awards.


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## Merl

Most musical instruments are hard to master. I've been playing guitar for about 6 years-ish and I'm still pretty mediocre. As long as I can knock out a few choons with my friends and my class I'm happy though as I play for fun. If I was really serious to learn the guitar properly I'd spend far more time practising and get some proper tuition.


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## Azol

If you think guitar is hard to play, wait till you see this microtonal baby:









On the serious note, I believe any instrument is hard to Master, there are few true Masters around for a reason.


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## jalexis

"Mastering" something is a comparative term, which implies that you are better than nearly all others at doing something. Hence there can be only as many "masters" as we are willing to include in this exclusive top of the iceberg of all musicians out there.


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## philoctetes

Diatonic harmonica, more difficult than the chromatic to play all 12 notes on all 3 octaves, but possible. It's a very high bar that some great players never reach. Before Howard Levy it was not considered possible. Hear his recordings with Bela Fleck or Rabih Abdou-Khalil, he's not like us mortals.

The irony is that it's considered a toy that anybody can play. Ha. Play but not master.


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## Red Terror

Violin
French Horn
Organ
Oboe
Bagpipes
Harp
Piano
Accordion
Classical Guitar
Drums


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## Bwv 1080

The piano is the easiest instrument on which to play the Hammerklavier Sonata


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## Open Book

The French horn is considered difficult to manage, unpredictable. The principal horn player of one of the world's top orchestras was interviewed and said that there are rare times when you just lose control of that instrument and it does what it wants. This is the finest horn player of one of the world's finest orchestras and every section of theirs always sound flawless to me, so I have a hard time believing that. But I guess it's always a threat that it could happen.


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## starthrower

philoctetes said:


> Diatonic harmonica, more difficult than the chromatic to play all 12 notes on all 3 octaves, but possible. It's a very high bar that some great players never reach. Before Howard Levy it was not considered possible. Hear his recordings with Bela Fleck or Rabih Abdou-Khalil, he's not like us mortals.


Not to mention Levy is a great piano player as well. I've seen him with the Flecktones.


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## Open Book

starthrower said:


> Not to mention Levy is a great piano player as well. I've seen him with the Flecktones.


I saw the Flecktones last summer. I wasn't too familiar with them and their members but from his photo I remember Howard Levy was part of the group and did play both piano and harmonica impressively. I wouldn't be able to appreciate anything unusual that he did on the harmonica, I'm no musician. All the group showed off their virtuosity on their respective instruments, often individually.


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