# SS 05.07.14 - Prokofiev #1 "Classical"



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

_I will post this one a little early since it's a holiday weekend here in the USA._

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Sergei Prokofiev (1891 - 1953)*

Symphony #1 in D Major, Op. 25 "Classical"

1. Allegro
2. Larghetto
3. Gavotta: Non troppo allegro
4. Finale: Molto vivace

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

It's a holiday weekend here in the USA but this is a pretty short symphony so hopefully we'll get lots of listeners.

This weekend I will listen to my favorite recording of Prokofiev's 1st Symphony:

View attachment 45781


Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I will also be listening to Bernstein/New York Philharmonic...









It's the same recording, but a different cover, so it feels different enough to be justified!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*Prokofiev*: Symphony 1 "Classique", w. BPO/HvK (rec.1981).


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2014)

Having three different versions, I'll try to listen to them all and compare!

SNO/Jarvi
HvK/BPO
Chamber Orch of Europe/Abbado

(Even I can do this, as the symphony is mercifully brief and I already know it well!)


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

No longer have my old Ormandy/Philadelphia LP (nobody did this symphony with more flash), so I will dig out my Steinberg/PSO CD for another go.


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

I have three differen: HvK BPO and Bernie NYPO (from the Symphony Edition).
Altough I respect a lot both, I will listen to this one below.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

What a lovely work for a gentle, carefree summer day (shame it's going to rain). I shall listen to both the Kitajenko and Weller versions from these box sets.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

I might really have a ball and listen to these ones too!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Gergiev, LSO, ripper of a piece! Sometimes I wish I could get to know Prokofiev's other symphonies too, I always seem to just stop at no. 1 and listen to it over and over.


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## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

Seconding the Kitajenko recording. I think I have Toscanini leading this one too... Maybe I'll add that one to the list too.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

I'd like to point out that this is the one-year anniversary weekend of Saturday Symphonies! Long may it continue!

As for Prokofiev 1, I'm going for the Walter Weller again, my usual choice for Prokofiev's symphonies.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> *Prokofiev*: Symphony 1 "Classique", w. BPO/HvK (rec.1981).


I have this one, too. It's the one I'll go with.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Slatkin and St. Louis for me.


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

I'm fascinated by following a score these days, 
so here we go again! 








^ Released in 1971, Claudio Abbado conducted the London Symphony Orchestra as noted in the first few seconds of the video: *Prokofiev Symphony #1 in D Major*, Op.25.

If you want the score in pdf format, see the IMSLP copyright intro page. 
I Allegro 
II Largetto > pdf p 30 
III Gavotta Non troppo allegro > pdf p 41
IV Finale: Molto vivace > pdf p 45 of 67​


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I am going for Abbado and the Chamber Orch of Europe but may then try some of the other suggestions via Spotify


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## CyrilWashbrook (Feb 6, 2013)

So short that even Celibidache struggled to stretch it beyond a quarter of an hour. I'll have a listen to Abbado/LSO.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2014)

So have listened to the first movement of the three versions I chose. I must say I can't tell them much apart from the playing, but the recordings make a difference. The HvK/BPO is drier, enabling me to pick out the sections of the orchestra better, but there seems to be slight loss of oomph compared to the others. The Jarvi/SNO was recorded in a hall, so there's a lot of reverberation which 'clouds' the instruments, but there is a fullness to the soloists that the HvK lacks. The Abbado/COoE sits somewhere between, though the timpani seem more prominent and the whole seems slightly muddier.

Now for the second movement...

...and third. I think the flautist has a happier time with Jarvi and Abbado's gavotte is not as non troppo as it should be! (At least, if I'm picturing the court actually dancing, it seems they might be hurried to breathlessness).

HvK does at least make it sound as though the orchestra is creeping away at the the end of the 3rd, rather than that the sound engineer has just turned down the mix!


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2014)

The fourth is a triumph for Abbado. Taken at an exhilarating pace, without the irritating precision of the BPO - here's a conductor and orchestra that love the piece and love life. Jarvi seems to have lost both molto and vivace. The closing section where each instrument comes in over the top of the preceding is just joyous...I now have to go and lie down in a darkened room.

You can listen to the second half here





 -

There's also a 1971 recording that I've not listened to yet.

Given that Prokofiev acknowledges that this is his Haydn, could anyone explain how this small but perfectly formed piece actually differs from his work? I mean, would Papa Haydn recognise what Prokofiev was doing? Or would he be turning in his grave...

"A gavotte!? Where's my minuet?"


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Okay - I've listened to the 4 recordings I mentioned back on page 1. A brief summary of them is as follows:

1. Kuchar / National SO of Ukraine / Naxos - a rather lethargic performance which, though pleasant enough, has nothing to make you sit up and take any particular notice. It's coupled with a _much_ better 2nd symphony and 2 earlier works (Dreams Op.6 and Autumnal Sketch Op.8)

2. Temirkanov / USSR State Symphony Orchestra / Brilliant Classics (Historical Russian Archives) - a very rough live recording from 1981, but there's no doubting the enthusiasm of this brash and racy performance. There is some doubt over the tuning, or the orchestra's ability to stay together however.

3. Kitajenko / Gurzenich Orchester Koln / Phoenix Edition (complete symphonies box set) - a fabulous clear and clean recording from 2008 and a solid opener to this excellenbt set. The 3rd movement seems much faster than I'm used to.

4. Weller / LSO / Brilliant Classics (complete symphonies box set) - this is my favourite of the 4 recordings I've listened to. Recorded back in 1974, it's pacy, bright and delicate and has a breathtaking last movement which is really fast but never heavy.

This is my last Saturday Symphony until Prokofievs 3rd which I work out to be on 20th September (happy to be corrected). Have fun guys!


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2014)

techniquest said:


> 3. Kitajenko / Gurzenich Orchester Koln / Phoenix Edition (complete symphonies box set) - a fabulous clear and clean recording from 2008 and a solid opener to this excellenbt set. The 3rd movement seems much faster than I'm used to.
> 
> 4. Weller / LSO / Brilliant Classics (complete symphonies box set) - this is my favourite of the 4 recordings I've listened to. Recorded back in 1974, it's pacy, bright and delicate and has a breathtaking last movement which is really fast but never heavy


Thanks for the two recommendations!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

My favourites are 

- Svetlanov/USSRAcSO (including a dazzling finale) 
- and an old mono Martinon/Lamoureux. 

Given the work´s shortness, I´ll be listening to both .


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

As it is my only recording, I'll listen to Neeme Jarvi and RSNO at some point today.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

MacLeod said:


> Given that Prokofiev acknowledges that this is his Haydn, could anyone explain how this small but perfectly formed piece actually differs from his work? I mean, would Papa Haydn recognise what Prokofiev was doing? Or would he be turning in his grave...
> 
> "A gavotte!? Where's my minuet?"


It's far from an exact replica of Haydn's music and there are certainly many passages that would have made the older composer raise an eyebrow or two.

For example, the opening of the Gavotte teeters between many different key areas whereas the Classical Era version would have been much more harmonically stable even by "Scherzo standards", which had a tendency to be less stable than Minuets.

Just to give the harmonic progression of the first 2 measures of the Gavotte:

I-(I6)-bVII6-(bVII6/4)
B Major: bII6-(bII6/4)-I6/4-(I)____

Certainly, there was nothing like that progression ever written in the Classical Era, unless I'm missing something. Usually the beginning of minuets or gavottes merely went I-V-I or I-V, with a half-cadence on the V (or some similar variation thereof). But in the Prokofiev he modulates after the very first I chord and is effectively in a different key by the 2nd measure!

Also, in terms of instrumental technique, the individual parts (specifically the woodwind parts) are far more demanding than they would have been had this piece been written in the Classical Era. For example, double and triple tonguing is a technique frequently employed by the flute player(s) in this symphony, however, it was a very rare (if not non-existent, I'm a little fuzzy on that) technique in the Classical Era.

In fact, while Haydn would have been able to recognize the basic form of the piece, he probably would have found the entire thing quite strange. Despite the surface similarities to Classical Era music, this is a 20th century piece through and through.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Listened to it earlier. Not my favourite of his works, mainly due to the shortness of it and the lack of colour in the orchestral forces. Although I respect that this is what he meant for this piece. I'm just not a fan of Classical-period music.

Also, interesting to note that two weeks of full-length Saturday Symphonies come to only just the length of Beethoven 9's finale.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Picked from local library today : Valery Gergiev & LSO. I guess Putin would love this choice , but not Karita Mattila .


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

My listening today is
View attachment 45909


I think it's a terrific piece of music. Classical in style, but with many "modern inventions". Chromatic phrases, and very high first violins are what I notice. The firsts double the seconds, but the first violins are way up there in the stratosphere. Technically quite challenging at tempo. For violin exams, orchestra excerpts are required. The orchestra excerpts for this piece are a part of the highest level of exams, whereas orchestra excerpts of Haydn and Mozart are a part of exams at a lower level.


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

Once I've started listening to Prokofiev, it hasn't been easy to find a stopping place. Eventually, one has to move one .

The pdf score is here, and hear the video of the 1971 release conducted by Abbado.

I Allegro

The Allegro repeats were heard yet I didn't hear accent or dynamic alternatives performed.

II Largetto pdf p 30

In the end measures of Largetto, you can hear Abbado hadn't returned to the original tempo he set at the top; he ended the section just slightly faster than he began.

As a piggy-back onto violadude's post, I'm guessing another reason for distinguishing this Symphony from the Classical Era would be the first two measures beginning square-7 in the score, at ~mark 6:25 in the video.

In non-technical terms, this describes what I heard. The piece is in 3/4 time. It begins a theme in A major, shifts to C major for about 10mm, and in the two mm just prior to returning to A major, a C7 is introduced. Once arriving in A major's original theme, marked by square-7 in the score, the lower strings are playing an F natural, and that perks up my ears for resolution. Some have said moments like that are haunting yet it's neither too much nor too long, and I love those few moments!​
III Gavotta Non troppo allegro pdf p 41

An elegant piece without surprises.

IV Finale: Molto vivace pdf p 45 of 67

The movement flourishes quickness so much so I had to conduct the piece to keep up with no loss suffered when turning pages. And, that was a good thing!

It was a great morning for listening!

R.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2014)

violadude said:


> It's far from an exact replica of Haydn's music and there are certainly many passages that would have made the older composer raise an eyebrow or two.
> 
> For example, the opening of the Gavotte teeters between many different key areas whereas the Classical Era version would have been much more harmonically stable even by "Scherzo standards", which had a tendency to be less stable than Minuets.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for your post. I guess here's a perfect example of what 'understanding' music means

(see http://www.talkclassical.com/32977-have-you-ever-misunderstood-post685435.html#post685435)

To _fully _appreciate what you're telling me, I'd need more than a musical dictionary, but I suspect that even if I could decode the progression you've written, I'd still hear it the same. I'm so familiar with the piece (and other 20thC pieces) that I can no longer hear what it is that might alarm Haydn.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Up till today I and my ears mulled on three recorded versions:







..






..








_USSR Radio and TV Large Symphony Orchestra u. Gennady Rozhdestvensky.._ (Consonance)
Quite rough Soviet sound (1966), very fiery, not a dull moment!

_London Symphony Orchestra u. Valery Gergiev.._ (Philips)
Natural sound, very slick and perfect to the brink of uninvolving..

_Philharmonia Orchestra u. Igor Markevitch.._ (Testament)
Warmish analogue sound, careful, involving, makes me think that at 13'30 Prokofiev is underachieving... 

/ptr


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Hey, this Saturday symphony fell on my birthday this year!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Hey, this Saturday symphony fell on my birthday this year!


Happy Birthday, Cosmos!!! :cheers:


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

As usual I'm a bit late with my Saturday Symphony listening (yesterday we went to Hawes in the Yorkshire dales as Mrs. Vox wanted to see the Tour de France first stage, and we were out pretty well all day).

I went with this version, conductor and orchestra previously unknown to me:

*Prokofiev
Symphony No. 1 in D major, Op. 25 "Classical" (1916-7)*
( and Symphony No. 5 in B flat major, Op. 100, 1944)
Theodore Kuchar, Ukrainian National Symphony Orchestra [Naxos,2000]










Which was highly enjoyable. I can't claim to have heard this symphony in a decade or two, but the themes were very familiar.


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