# I can't listen to masses.................



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

They depress and scare me. They give me a glimps of the beyond and I don't like what I see. NOTHING
I guess I'm like Mahler. Scared and paranoid.

Any thoughts. Kind of delicate, I know, but wanted to express this.

thanks


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

If in your 'glimpse of the beyond' you see nothing, it ain't much of a glimpse. Other than that observation, I just plain don't understand your reaction to masses; it's just music; no doors to other 'places' ought to be opening. The Church would frown on openings I think.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Listen to Haydn's Masses (except the Lord Nelson). They were sometimes criticised by his contemporaries for being too cheerful and light-hearted; his reply was that when his thoughts turned to God he could not help but to feel joy.


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

I used to think listening to requiem was creepy - why would I want to listen to a mass for the dead? For me, the music was too beautiful not to listen to it so I got over the creepy part. I'm a "non-believer" so I guess that helps.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

^Yes, I like Harnoncourt's recordings especially, although my old-reliable Bernstein has made some great recordings too.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Itullian said:


> They depress and scare me. They give me a glimps of the beyond and I don't like what I see. NOTHING
> I guess I'm like Mahler. Scared and paranoid.
> 
> Any thoughts. Kind of delicate, I know, but wanted to express this.
> ...


You may be a candidate for Southern gospel, arriving at The Pearly Gates with tummy full and a smile on face.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Itullian said:


> They depress and scare me. They give me a glimps of the beyond and I don't like what I see. NOTHING


I don't know why you would be scared of nothing. It sounds like you're afraid that there might really be something, and masses bring up that possibility. But if you're like Mahler, you'll confront these questions instead of hide from them.

I'm a Christian, but I'm constantly scrutinizing what I consider to be the truth to see if it is genuine or if there is some self-delusion involved. That's just part of our existential dilemma.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

A favorite of mine is the Mozart Coronation Mass. 

It's bright and contains some splendid music - a bit of a chore to play for the accompanist, which I have done many times.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I could listen to nothing but masses for quite some time without ever becoming bored... let alone "creeped out". Currently listening to Pergolesi's _Stabat Mater_.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I guess I have to drag it out again...


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't know why they would depress or scare you...many of them are incredibly uplifting and certainly don't have a fearful sound to them, at least from my perspective.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Itullian said:


> They depress and scare me. They give me a glimps of the beyond and I don't like what I see. NOTHING
> I guess I'm like Mahler. Scared and paranoid.
> ..


I do like masses, but I also prefer the ones that give me a boost at the end. Or maybe just ambiguity, not going one way or the other, to either darkness or to light.

Of course, there are conventions involved. As Jalex said above, Haydn didn't care much for them, in some ways at least. Generally, brighter and kind of happy part of quite a few masses I know is the _Gloria_ movement/section. But it depends, composers take liberties and artistic license with these conventions. They have surprised me many times in how they treat the sacred texts.

In this regard, some of my favourites are these, they are no too dark on the whole, and spiritual rather than scary or creepy, not too heavy -

*Puccini *- _Messa di Gloria_ (the Agnus Dei is pure joy, the tenor joined by the baritone, they sing together as if united and happy in praise of God)
*Vivaldi* - _Gloria RV 589_
*Gounod* - _Messe solennelle de Sainte-Cecile_ (Nothing much solemn about this, it's pure schmaltz, but based on the now discarded solemn mass format. If you want something similar to the over the top emotion of Tchaikovsky, then this is similar. & with lashings of sugar rather than anything too depressing or morose. Only one part, the _crucifixus_ comes out at me as profound, the rest is just some great tunes and lighter vibe, as was Gounod's forte in some ways. Give it a go, it's not very profound but so what, 9 times out of 10 I'd rather listen to this than be bored to death with "real" solemnity!)

& in more modern styles -

*Janacek *- _Glagolitic Mass_ (this is really about the glories of nature and the newly independent Czech nation, it is overall very joyful and optimistic, but may be quirky at first listen for those new to church music)
*Frank Martin* - _Mass for Double Choir_ (the part of the text singing of the resurrection is just brimming with joy, the innocent joy of a child. It starts at about 3:40 in THIS video, before they were singing of the death of Christ, this part is the resurrection, they go suddenly from darkness to light, for me this is pure joy.) 
*Arvo Part *- _Berliner Messe_

If you want more info, get back to me. This is a favourite genre of mine, but recently I don't listen to many masses. But this is a very varied genre, not all dark and gloomy, or kind of churchy and boring, as some people think.

An idea is also to read along with the translation of the original Latin text. With some minor differences, all composers use very similar text, which has remained in use for some churches today...


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Some of my favourites:

Mozart: "Great" Mass in C minor. Simple and humane. "Living is hard, but we gotta do it."
Berlioz: "Requiem". Dramatic and solemn. "Death comes to every individual."
Bruckner: Mass #3 in F minor. Overwhelming and all-encompassing. "The universe devouring man."
Beethoven: Missa Solemnis. Just ingenious, a whirlwind of light and counterpoint. "Reason prevails."


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

You might like some of the late 15th and 16th century Franco-Flemish _a cappella_ masses - if you don't like countertenors and boy sopranos, you can find excellent recordings with the modern SATB performing forces.

Josquin Masses - Missa Pange Lingua, Missa L'Homme Arme super voces, Missa Fortuna Desperata, Missa Malheur Me Bat, Missa Hercules, Dux Ferrariae.

Cipriano de Rore - Missa Praeter rerum seriem (paraphrase mass of Josquin's motet by same name),

Obrecht - Missa Caput

Ockeghem - Missa Prolationem


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I second the Janacek piece. Glagolitic Mass may change your opinion of them. Then there's Beethoven's Mass in C which is more traditional-but still good.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Two other more contemporary ones which I forgot. Both have aspects that are life affirming and basically very earthy and of life itself, not kind of too churchy or holy -

*Ariel Ramirez *- _Misa Criolla_
*David Fanshawe *- _African Sanctus_


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Janacek's Glagolitic mass is certainly an extraordinary and singular work, written by a composer who was not religious at all , and who found churches creepy himself . A confirmed agnostic. 
It's meant to evoke the primitive,earthy world of the medieval Slavs who had just been converted to Christianity by the monks Cryil and Methodius, from whence we get the Cyrillic alphabet . Glagolitic was an ancient alphabet used for South Slavic languages which predates the Cyrillic ,hence the name. Janacek wrote a mass for pagans !


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