# Why is opera unpopular with middle aged people?



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I have noticed that the two most apparent demographics at the opera are age 18-34 young adults and 55+ older folks.

I would generally conclude this is due to 35-55 year old middle aged people not having much of a life beyond work and raising their children, but the same trend is apparent in my opera-related Youtube video demographics.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I have two main explanations.

If other parts of life are getting in the way of middle aged people going to the opera, I can see it also getting in the way of watching opera on YouTube. I also find that opera can be a consuming passion; as opera going opportunities started to open up for me I started to listen to more and more opera, and watch more productions as well via YouTube and other sources.

The other thing is that many opera houses offer student and/or other young-person discounts. San Francisco Opera here has their BRAVO! Club, open to members 21-40, that offers significantly discounted tickets. They also offer day-of rush tickets to students and seniors (65+). Many other houses have similar deals that skew demographics somewhat.



Also I am in that demographic (35-55 year old) and know several other opera fans in that range as well. I don't say this to dispute your figures.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

This is a topic to follow.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Demographics of opera. Interesting question. And why are there so many gays but not that many women?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

This is not my experience - it´s unpopular among young people in particular, and there´s a strong segment of elderly, female fans.

Don´t know any statistics, though.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

When I've been to operas locally - I don't suppose Lowestoft is a typical venue! - I do notice a few young people but they seem mainly to be there with their parents or grandparents. Most of the audience are grey-haired.

I am glad if there are more young people at the bigger venues. Maybe there is a (small) change in the fashion - look how babies are being given Victorian or Edwardian first names now. As for the middle-aged people - the OP's surmise that they're too busy with family & career commitments seems a sound one.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

My impression is that when I visit large opera houses in bigger cities, the audience is more diverse. Whereas in smaller theaters I often feel I am the only one younger than 70.


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## bestellen (May 28, 2015)

When you see a teenager walking down the street, white earbuds firmly implanted, swaying slightly to their own inner grove, you can be pretty much certain that it’s not classical music they’re listening to. Teenagers I know can enthusiastically rattle off the name of a dozen bands on their current favorite playlist, but ask them if they know who Brahms was and a funny kind of glazed look comes over their eyes. Even my music students, who I’d hope would know better, are astonishingly unknowledgeable about classical music, and if they don’t even know the names of these composer, you’d better believe that they don’t have an recordings by them.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

bestellen said:


> When you see a teenager walking down the street, white earbuds firmly implanted, swaying slightly to their own inner grove, *you can be pretty much certain that it's not classical music they're listening to*. Teenagers I know can enthusiastically rattle off the name of a dozen bands on their current favorite playlist, but ask them if they know who Brahms was and a funny kind of glazed look comes over their eyes. Even my music students, who I'd hope would know better, are astonishingly unknowledgeable about classical music, and if they don't even know the names of these composer, you'd better believe that they don't have an recordings by them.


I wholly disagree. I'm sure it's less popular among young, but that said there are plenty of young people I know who listen to classical music with regularity. As the OP noted, you can find many such people on this forum. I do think it's a shame that your music students aren't examples of this, no doubt it frustrates.

My opinions on why Couchie notes this disparity: 1) They may be too busy to indulge or they simply don't spend as much time on the forums. so maybe they are listening at home but not writing and discussing their listening habits

2) The elderly often grew up with this style of entertainment. the 35-55 year olds may have found it "boring" music of their grandma's and grandpa's or their parents and wanted to dissociate from that music. Now a couple generations later there may be something in itself cool to approach these older art forms. it's old enough to be hip.  Or perhaps they are being exposed through other genres of music. I myself came to opera through the operatic vocal style of a symphonic metal artist. So as that type of music gets more popular they may find themselves exploring backward in time.

Well, as a 34.5 year old I guess I am easing out of Couchie's target demographic for this discussion. I promise not to give up my opera fandom in another 6 months!


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

A few years ago I was meeting a stranger at a concert and I told them i'd be easy find: I'm the one with hair on the top of his head.

Glad to say that over the last 5 years of so opera has become kind of an "in" thing to attend in the nearest big city so the audience is getting more diverse.

In the college town in which I live it's all students and older folks, pretty hollow through the 30-60 demographic.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Sonata said:


> The elderly often grew up with this style of entertainment.


My _personal_ experience is:

Very, very few young people listen to classical music, let alone opera.

Very few old people listen to classical music, let alone opera.

What I mean is that inside the opera there is a majority of old people - outside there is a majority of non-opera people. When I was a child I believed all old people prefer classical music. Then a relative moved into in a retirement home. He loved classical music and always complained to me that there was absolutely no one around he could talk to about the music...


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

My experience is that almost nobody in my personal life is an opera fan so I agree with you to some extent.

-my primary care doctor is (I thought that was so awesome! But she is anyway). She's 60 I think, but I can hardly see her in an "older" demographic; she's liked opera for years and she's so healthy and fit.

-my friend who graduated with a degree in theater likes it but I don't think she listens to opera music as often as I do. She's 38.

-my husband's boss from when he was in his 20s, he ran a home business and my husband recalls him being a great Rossini fan. I don't know how old he was but he had four young kids.

Honestly I think that's it. I will say my kids recognize opera music because I play it enough and I think my 4 year old daughter even enjoys it (my 6 year old boy is more of a rock kid!) I hope to say one day they'll be fans, but if not that's ok too.


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Depends on where you sit and the opera. At the Royal Opera House and the English National Opera in the inexpensive seats the demographics are surprisingly varied. More varied than at a classical music concert. However the patrons do tend to be reassuringly middle class.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Loge said:


> Depends on where you sit and the opera. At the Royal Opera House and the English National Opera in the inexpensive seats the demographics are surprisingly varied. More varied than at a classical music concert. However the patrons do tend to be reassuringly *middle class*.


Good point. Money & class always make a difference. In London I suppose there'll be more young people who will have received a good musical education at a fee-paying school or whose parents are cultured - just because there are more people of every sort in London.

But it's still good news to hear that there are young people interested in opera.

I went to a grammar school in the 1960s, which was pretty middle class - but nobody,as I recall - staff or pupils - knew anything about opera.

If it ever came up in our house, it was just to laugh at warbly voices on the wireless.

Wish I'd had a better induction in youth.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> I went to a grammar school in the 1960s, which was pretty middle class - but nobody,as I recall - staff or pupils - knew anything about opera.


I was born later, (no offence Ingélou) but in my time the 1990 it was the same it's only now that I see a bit movement towards it.
The attenders to the MET Live transmission in my city changed that drastic in the years I am attending. So, there is still hope.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I have a good number of friends and acquaintances that are fans of more pop/rock-oriented music, generally liking a wide variety of such music. A small minority expressed some interest/showed some knowledge of classical music. Scattered few are opera fans.

Some that liked experimental music had some cross-over with modern classical and opera; I know a good number saw _Einstein on the Beach_ as it toured a few years ago (though I have a hard time calling that modern anymore). There were a few other points of entry such as this, but in my opinion the general contempt from most general opera goers for modern opera and the general opinion (in the culture as a whole) of opera as old-fashioned and dead has combined such that few were inspired to explore other opera.

For a long time I was in a similar position; I was listening to a wide range of music, including a lot of classical works. I tended to focus on 20th century composers, many of whom were ignored by the local symphony and other organizations. I didn't see attending the symphony as much of a thing, because they didn't play what I was most excited to hear. Of course I liked Beethoven and so on, but I didn't feel the need to attend performances of his symphonies yearly. [Similarly, I listened to a lot of popular styles, but I didn't attend shows for everyone]. So I'd occasionally go to the symphony, when I found out they were playing Martinů or some such.

Attending the opera was similar, but even more extreme. Arizona Opera had a season of 5 operas per year. There was some variety and certainly many operas I would have enjoyed, but their repertoire is mostly classic works that appeal to long-time, dedicated opera fans (that want to see the classic works over and over) and those new to opera (and have not already seen _Carmen_ and _Le nozze di Figaro_ many times over).

So I was listening to Barber, Bartók, and Berg, but I had no chances to see any of it on stage. I tried to get family, etc. interested in seeing _Der fliegende Holländer_ but to no avail (and I didn't go on my own). It was _Nixon in China_ that finally got me to go to the Met Live in HD broadcasts. And after I moved to NYC it was _Satyagraha_ that got me to go to the Met. Those two performances were strong enough that I went back to the Met a few times (via rush and lottery tickets) just to see what else opera could do. I saw a terrible _Faust_, but an electrifying _La fille du régiment_, and the impression of the latter was stronger.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

It should be popular among middle aged people were else can middle aged people play teenagers and nobody think it is disturbing?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Sloe said:


> It should be popular among middle aged people were else can middle aged people play teenagers and nobody think it is disturbing?


But don't forget it's pretty depressing for an older person to watch someone pretending to be young & not fooling anyone.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> But don't forget it's pretty depressing for an older person to watch someone pretending to be young & not fooling anyone.


If they can act well and sing beautiful the suspension of disbelief can be released.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

interestedin said:


> My impression is that when I visit large opera houses in bigger cities, the audience is more diverse. Whereas in smaller theaters I often feel I am the only one younger than 70.


That's been my impression, too. For instance, at the Met's L'ELISIR D'AMORE last March an astonishing amount of the audience -- or at least, of the audience in the Family Circle where I sat -- was "young people."


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> But don't forget it's pretty depressing for an older person to watch someone pretending to be young & not fooling anyone.


Yes! I've been told that.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Why is *everything* unpopular with middle-aged people? Middle-aged people, being obsessed with career, marriage and childrearing, are some of the most boring people on the planet. Once the kids go to college, they start getting interesting again, and being interested in actual things. Give them some time.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

When I started going to Seattle Opera years ago there were seniors and lots of gays. Unfortunately HIV decimated the gay opera queens before the effective drugs appeared on the scene. Now when I go to the opera I may see 20 gay people and the rest are heterosexual couples of the gray hair set. Very few inbetween. Where will opera be here in 15 years!!!!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> When I started going to Seattle Opera years ago there were seniors and lots of gays. Unfortunately HIV decimated the gay opera queens before the effective drugs appeared on the scene. Now when I go to the opera I may see 20 gay people and the rest are heterosexual couples of the gray hair set. Very few inbetween. Where will opera be here in 15 years!!!!


Still alive S.O.F opera will always survive.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Still alive S.O.F opera will always survive.


SF and NYC both have lots of Europeans who call both cities home and Europeans have a much stronger operatic tradition than the Asian countries that are attracted to the high tech jobs here in Seattle. Also both citys have very large Jewish populations which are most often culturally and artistically savvy and have a tendency to have the money needed for operatic patronage.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Opera is unpopular with ALL the general population: young, middle age and elderly.

It is a highly specialized interest and in my life I can count on two fingers the number of people whose faces have lit up when I stated I like opera and have a subscription at the Met.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

graziesignore said:


> Why is *everything* unpopular with middle-aged people? Middle-aged people, being obsessed with career, marriage and childrearing, are some of the most boring people on the planet. Once the kids go to college, they start getting interesting again, and being interested in actual things. Give them some time.


If you find playing Legos, Play-doh, reading imaginitive stories, building tree forts and playing at the beach boring, then sure it's boring. My kids are my buddies! "Actual" things as you describe can very well be defined as "Consumption of external entertainment" which doesn't make someone inherently interesting. It's not necessarily more fascinating to trend towards those things than it is enjoying time home with your family, if you like your family.


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