# Who do you consider the best classical era composer apart from the 3 big names?



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

This is going to be a poll. Pretty self explanatory. This includes a range of composers from the Rococco to the Romantic transition.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

from what I know... Gluck... followed by Bellini, Donizetti, and Rossini.


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

I'm not sure if I'm familiar enough with composers outside the big 3 to answer, except Schubert if we're counting the romantic transition. But other then him, I've been particularly impressed with CPE Bach, D. Scarlatti, and C.W. Gluck.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> from what I know... Gluck... followed by Bellini, Donizetti, and Rossini.


Ah, see I know little about opera composers, and also the last three you mentioned are too deep into the romantic transition, oops, I failed.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I can't believe I forgot Gluck!!! I'm ashamed


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

As for my answer, I've been particularly impressed with all of these composers on my stupid poll.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

I have been generally imprseed by Weber, Paganini, Spohr, Hummel, Krommer, Boccherini, and Danzi. Are Weber and Paganini also excluded because they are too deep in the romantic transition (even though they were composing at the same time as Hummel, who is included)?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Trout said:


> I have been generally imprseed by Weber, Paganini, Spohr, Hummel, Krommer, Boccherini, and Danzi. Are Weber and Paganini also excluded because they are too deep in the romantic transition (even though they were composing at the same time as Hummel, who is included)?


I suppose they can be. This poll failed in my opinion.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> This is going to be a poll. Pretty self explanatory. This includes a range of composers from the Rococco to the Romantic transition.


Hah. When I voted, I was the only one who had - so my selections both rated 100% (I wonder how that works). Anyway 'best' is not my thing. Boccherini was not only prolific, much of his music is both interesting, melodic and entertaining. Cherubini's music tends to be skillfully orchestrated, his melodies are attractive, carefully constructed and efficiently utilized. The Symphony in D is not only an excellent listen but seems to me to be well 'ahead of it's time'.

If you had listed Cruselli(sp), I would have checked his box too; those clarinet concertos are wonderful things.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

What are the cut-off dates? I ask this because Rossini composed the vast majority of his work during Beethoven's life span and Bellini is dead around 7 years after Beethoven. Donizetti, I will grant you, lived too far into the Romantic era.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

A very interesting poll, clavichorder. Made me think a few more minutes than most other musical polls here at TC. And I guess it also shows your broad experience with many of the Classical folks as not many of the listed folks get much of a mention.

I have music by all of them but in very different quantities. For example with Kozeluch, I have only some of his symphonies, which were enjoyable examples but I have all the symphonies of JC Bach. I'm a bit of a JC Bach fan, who was a friend of the Mozarts (father & son), and influenced the boy Mozart in many ways until Mozart reached early maturity in Vienna. Likewise with Michael Haydn, who wrote a lot of quality music as demanded by his employers in Salzburg (the same mob who hired the Mozarts). Perhaps I'm just used to the Mozartian flavour of Classical music, and so I voted JC Bach and Michael Haydn.

The other composer whom I voted for was CPE Bach. His music was qute original for his times, especially his _Empfindsamer Stil_ and his reputation towards the second half of the 18th century was very solid. You can easily hear his influence amongst many composers such as Joseph Haydn.

Limiting to just three for the porpuse of your poll, I certianly don't think much less of many other names I am familiar with; namely, Boccherini, Hummel (recommended by Joseph Haydn himself to succeed him at Esterhazy), Clementi, and ... end up listing everyone!


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Like HC, I quite enjoy what I have heard of J.C. Bach. The collection of his arias sung by Philippe Jaroussky suggests that his operatic oeuvre is something of real merit. C.P.E. Bach and Boccherini are probably the next composers off the list that I would include. I wonder about Pergolesi. Although he dies before J.S. Bach he was already pushing music toward the "classical" realm. Gluck, however, remains the most glaring omission in the sense that I would place him as the greatest composer of the era after the big three on the basis of his marvelous operas and the degree to which they completely revamped the operatic conventions of the era.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Agree with the gist of what Hilltroll said about *Boccherini* &* Cherubini.*

Heard the latter's_ Requiem in C_ live & it was just an amazingly visceral work. The ending _Lux Aeterna (Eternal Light)_ was not done in the expected conventional way, indeed, it came across as eternal darkness more likely, only the very last few seconds did he give a big bright key of C major. I haven't heard anything much else by him, but judging from that, this guy was a BEAST of a composer. Even Beethoven admired this requiem over Mozart's, the program notes said.

Others on your list who I like are *CPE Bach*, and esp.* Hummel,* who was to be a big influence on Chopin, and the young boy Liszt played a Hummel concerto (one of the two, don't remember which) on his debut concerto performance. Liszt's parents also approached Hummel to teach him but apparently he had little time for child prodigies. But Hummel's cantabile operatic style went to kind of make an impact, probably on Liszt and John Field as well, but esp. Chopin as I said.

I'm not hugely familiar with the others on your list, but I am interested in hearing and maybe getting something of Clementi...


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

The Classical era is'nt discussed much here at TC so good on you for this poll! - I voted for Boccherini and Cherubini


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

BTW, how many can we vote for?...


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

Viewing this thread made me realize how little I know of classical era music. Any suggestions on what pieces I should listen to from these composers?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

TrazomGangflow said:


> Viewing this thread made me realize how little I know of classical era music. Any suggestions on what pieces I should listen to from these composers?


I mostly only know about symphonies, sonatas and some concertos at this point, sorry to say, which is why this thread is not as good as it could be.

Some of the most attractive symphonies by minor classical era composers:




and this one usually blows people away




this one is very concise and perfect




JCF Bach, a fine son of Bach who gets little attention, combination of CPE and Viennese influences




Rigel, very fun composer


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

I voted for the following (D. Scarlatti and Gluck would rank above these three, though):

C.P.E. Bach - "He is the father" is the way Mozart spoke of him. He nurtured so many new styles, from keyboard works to symphonies to concerti. He even perfected "Sturm und drang" in its incipient days with violent, dissonant works such as the D minor harpischord and flute concerti.

Kraus - My favorite composer of symphonies from the era besides Mozart and Haydn. He mastered the art of contrast, and used the classical idiom to explore the very depths of emotion. His use of dissonance and polyphony stands out as being particularly unique.

Hummel - Not really a classical composer, in my opinion, and I would more likely classify him with the "transition period" that includes Beethoven, Weber, Schubert, Rossini, Donizetti, Spohr, and others. Favorites: op. 81 piano sonata, piano concerti, trumpet concerto, piano trios, and the piano quintet.

Another omission for me is C.F. Abel, a composer whose symphonies display a lot of the same balance, elegance, and cheer of Mozart.

For those who love Scarlatti (as I do), you may also enjoy the sonatas of Antonio "Papa" Soler. A native of Catalan, his music exhibits many of the same exotic dance qualities that Scarlatti's does. Check this out:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Its just... I omitted Scarlatti because I consider him Baroque. Isn't he a Baroque composer? Since when is he classical era?


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

clavichorder said:


> Its just... I omitted Scarlatti because I consider him Baroque. Isn't he a Baroque composer? Since when is he classical era?


He, like C.P.E, Sammartini, and others, worked in that "gray" period which is often called the "rococo". Scarlatti wrote most of his sonatas around 1750ish, and by that time Bach was already seated with the angels in heaven.

Anyways, don't worry about the classification; this poll is nevertheless an awesome one, especially since it's an invitation to share and discuss music from an oft-forgotten era.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Also, Carlos Seixas is another like Soler who is from the Iberian region.


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## hespdelk (Mar 19, 2011)

CPE and JC Bach are both wonderful and influential composers who are not as well known today as they were in the 18th century - I still have much to explore in both, but all that I've heard from them is first rank.

Boccherini is a giant of the period too often snubbed for the 'crime' that his classicism wasn't of the viennese variety.

Cherubini is a colossal composer - apart from the great masses I would recommend his cycle of six string quartets, in my view one of the most important cycles in the form in the first part of the 19th century. Cherubini is one of the few traceable influences we can detect in Beethoven which says much in my view as Beethoven's style has so many fundamental differences from his late classical contemporaries/predecessors.

No discussion of the classical era should forget Sammartini - before there was Haydn, he was laying the groundwork of the symphony.

It is such a rich period - there are literally hundreds of composers whose work is worthy of being heard... and many of whom we only have a portion of their output left to us.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

I selected Michael Haydn, Boccherini and Hummel. 

I happen to have a lot more material by C P E Bach than any of those listed above, but I'm not sure that I regard him as a full-bodied classical composer as he slots in that awkward time-slot in between the end of Baroque and the early classical era. A lot of CPE sounds more baroque-like than classical to my ears. 

Apart from C P E Bach, the next largest collections I have (although I admit none is all that large) are by the composers listed above. Of these, I would say that Michael Haydn is the best. I have several of his symphonies, a few masses, a trumper concerto, and some other types of religious choral choral music. Boccherini is a close second, and I have a collection of works like his oboe quintet, various cello concertos, and a few symphonies. Among Hummel's works there is a delightful trumpet concerto, clarinet concerto, various piano chamber works. 

I didn't bother ticking more than 3 boxes but if I had done so then Clementi would have appeared as well, in view of several excellent piano sonatas he produced. Others would have included Vanhal, Dittersdorf, Cimarosa, Cherubini, and Carl Stamitz. 

At various times I had an interest in all of these latter composers, and collected some of their work. Mostly they are tapings from various BBC Radio 3 "Composer of the Week" programmes when these composers and their main works were examined by Donald Macleod (the main presenter of that programme). That's the kind of musical commentary and expertise that I really do value very highly, together with analysis of the best/latest CDs on the weekly "CD Review" programme.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

No contest - it can only be Andrea Luchesi. :devil:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Listening to JCF Bach's symphonies, I am more an more impressed with his style, which is an interesting fusion of CPE Bach's semi baroque ideas, with Viennese Classicism. I think that he would be much higher regarded today, were so many of his works not destroyed in WWII. He wrote many symphonies, I think 20 or so of which survive today. He keyboard sonatas are very playable and consistent pieces, sometimes very interesting and never routine. He was the most consistent Bach, I think he best took after his father out of all the other Bach's. He was also most at home as an organ player of all the Bach sons, cited by CPE that he was the greatest at playing his father's works. Most stable career as well.

So, I'm pleased someone voted for him, unless that was me, I don't remember...


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm sad that you didn't include Salieri.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Lukecash12 said:


> I'm sad that you didn't include Salieri.


I'm not a perfect listener by any means, but I have to say that I haven't been overly impressed with a lot of Salieri. I'm still not a great opera listener though, so perhaps that has something to do with it. Notice that I didn't include Gluck or some other opera guys.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

For me you can forget them all! I'll pass! I have voted none of them.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sid James said:


> BTW, how many can we vote for?...


All it appears. I voted for two. JC and CPE Bach to be precise. Their music has really intrigued me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukecash12 said:


> I'm sad that you didn't include Salieri.


I would have voted for Salieri if he was there.


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