# No Haydn biopic



## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

I noticed there are no biopics about the life F.J Haydn.
Did he live too long or something?
also, who would play Haydn in a film?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

He was a great composer, one of my two or three favorites, but outside of his music, his life was not one that would make a very interesting movie or miniseries.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

From reading his biography, it sounds like he had a knack for composing and worked hard at it. The story of the Farewell Symphony might make for a decent short film, though.

This brilliant video I saw yesterday is relevant:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Haydn's life story wasn't dramatic, but I can imagine it as the subject of one of those lovely British docudramas in which an absence of plot is compensated for by meticulous period flavor and a charming assortment of witty and eccentric characters, all flavorfully portrayed by graduates of the Royal Academy or LAMDA.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Haydn seems to have a long smooth ride. 

Not the best material for a biopic.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Need Peter Schaffer to come up with a fictionalized story, like his secret gay life, or the suppressed bad boy underneath the squeaky clean image or something. Maybe Elton John could play him.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Didn't Haydn have some sort of marital problems? Anyone know a good biography of him?


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

His music seems to be increasingly ignored these days, too. His chamber music is played, but you rarely hear a major symphony orchestra programming one of his 104 symphonies. The Berlin Philharmonic played his best known cello concerto last Saturday and what a breath of fresh air it was. But otherwise Berlin doesn't do Haydn.


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

Maybe being thrown out of the St Stephens cathedral choir, struggling as a freelance street musician (at least one night homeless) , and eventually being recognised as a great composer, and appointed to the Esterhazy court?


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

HC Robbins Landon has lots of writings


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

Like Mein Name Ist Bach - very eccentric


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Gabrielli said:


> Maybe being thrown out of the St Stephens cathedral choir, struggling as a freelance street musician (at least one night homeless) , and eventually being recognised as a great composer, and appointed to the Esterhazy court?


Did all this this really happen?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Well, if they ever did one, they’d have an ready-made soundtrack for it. Him!


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

His relations/interactions with Mozart and Beethoven could (and should!) be included.

He is a major figure in the history of Western art...that is reason enough alone for a movie!


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

Open Book said:


> Did all this this really happen?
> 
> Yes it did, It's in biographies


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

Haydn70 said:


> His relations/interactions with Mozart and Beethoven could (and should!) be included.
> 
> He is a major figure in the history of Western art...that is reason enough alone for a movie![His complex relationship with his pupil, Beethoven which ultimately ended on good terms with Beethoven kissing his hand at Haydn's final public apperance]


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I like the Haydn at 22:30


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> I like the Haydn at 22:30


I have seen that. He also makes a cameo in Beethoven's Eroica film


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Gabrielli said:


> I have seen that. He also makes a cameo in Beethoven's Eroica film


A very effective cameo! I've seen people on this forum write of it as if it were a historical event. But it's not known that Haydn ever heard the Eroica at all in his lifetime.

But I do agree that it _should _have happened. :lol:


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Haydn70 said:


> His relations/interactions with Mozart and Beethoven could (and should!) be included.
> 
> He is a major figure in the history of Western art...that is reason enough alone for a movie!


Maybe - but he does not figure in the public imagination.

I had never heard of Haydn until about the age of 26 when I first started getting into classical music.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

I actually think something about his visits to London and Paris would be interesting. Juxtaposing the hermetic cloistered life at Esterhazy with the crazy 'Beatlemania' like adulation of his London concerts. Rich in music and local colour. I think that second set of London symphonies could get highlighted in the film in their entirety!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Haydn's life story wasn't dramatic, but I can imagine it as the subject of one of those lovely British docudramas in which an absence of plot is compensated for by meticulous period flavor and a charming assortment of witty and eccentric characters, all flavorfully portrayed by graduates of the Royal Academy or LAMDA.


There's a good biography of Haydn here


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I think it needed Ken Russell to do something "eccentric" with the Life of Haydn, which maybe involved him locking his younger brother in a small room at Eszterhaza and forcing him to write the music while he went fishing. And then give it all some half-baked Freudian undertones, just for fun?

Haydn's life seems to have been normal and possibly even quite dull. Contrasts with his music, which is in the Premier League.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

CnC Bartok said:


> I think it needed Ken Russell to do something "eccentric" with the Life of Haydn, which maybe involved him locking his younger brother in a small room at Eszterhaza and forcing him to write the music while he went fishing. And then give it all some half-baked Freudian undertones, just for fun?
> 
> Haydn's life seems to have been normal and possibly even quite dull. Contrasts with his music, which is in the Premier League.


Hold on, so you're saying that not all great art comes from a place of suffering!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The Big Screen is just barely big enough to capture the turbulent, storming, vital life and loves of the charismatic fatal genius that was Franz Joseph Haydn! You may talk about your Richard Strauss, your Anton Bruckner, your Alexander Borodin, each of whom were awash in seas of passion, and yet Haydn's tempestuous career dwarfs their puny stirrings of self-asserting genius. Watch as Haydn strides across musical history's pages, crushing his enemies, wooing and winning the woman of his dreams, and seizing his destiny by the throat!

Soon to be a major motion picture, coming to a theater near you. Title role yet to be cast. Suggestions welcome.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> The Big Screen is just barely big enough to capture the turbulent, storming, vital life and loves of the charismatic fatal genius that was Franz Joseph Haydn! You may talk about your Richard Strauss, your Anton Bruckner, your Alexander Borodin, each of whom were awash in seas of passion, and yet Haydn's tempestuous career dwarfs their puny stirrings of self-asserting genius. Watch as Haydn strides across musical history's pages, crushing his enemies, wooing and winning the woman of his dreams, and seizing his destiny by the throat!
> 
> Soon to be a major motion picture, coming to a theater near you. Title role yet to be cast. Suggestions welcome.


Tom Hardy is Franz Joseph Haydn! In a world of patronage and pomp only one rule breaker can break society's rules.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> There's a good biography of Haydn here
> 
> View attachment 119736


I used that book to do a biography presentation of Haydn in Grade 7 music class. I felt the whole class audience fell asleep.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> I used that book to do a biography presentation of Haydn in Grade 7 music class. I felt the whole class audience fell asleep.


Because of your teaching style I guess.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Open Book said:


> Didn't Haydn have some sort of marital problems?


Yup:

https://robertgreenbergmusic.com/music-history-monday-that-infernal-beast/


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

The biography portions of Haydn: A Creative Life in Music by Karl Geiringer were interesting.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

I remember a thread about the great composers going to heaven where everyone started speculating as to how their personalities would blend and clash, and I honestly wouldn't mind a movie that just threw historical accuracy out the window and did something like that. Not the heaven thing specifically, but if someone out there can write a poignant scene between Handel and Bach even though they never met, Haydn and Mozart, or whatever pairing it is, I'd like to see it. 

Maybe to get the script greenlit it has to be about a guy traveling through time to solve some music-related mystery. Whatever dumb thing it takes to see great actors depicting the superheroes of music!


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Haydn has too much going against him to have a movie made about him. First there's that nickname "Papa Haydn". 

Compare him to other composers who have had movie biographies: Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Chopin. He doesn't have a colorful enough personality and backstory. There's no great romance in his life. I don't think any of his music is well known to the vast majority who never listen to classical music except in tiny bites -- nothing like the Ode to Joy or the Turkish March. You probably can't make a movie marketed to just a few knowledgeable classical listeners.

There's never been a movie about Bach either, has there? Another dull domestic life that wouldn't capture the interest of the average moviegoer, despite the familiarity and appeal of some of his music.

Maybe Mozart would never have made it either without the apocryphal Salieri poisoning plot element.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

There was also a Hollywood biopic from 1947 about Robert and Clara Schumann, called “Song of Love.”

I wouldn’t mind seeing a buddy film with Haydn and Mozart set in the billiard parlor. (!) Lots of last-minute concert preparations and lots of music. Actually, Haydn was quite popular with the ladies though he didn’t consider himself a very attractive man. But there could be some good fights between Haydn and his Albatros of a wife that he never got along with, and Mozart could be up to his usual pranks, as the classical era is peaking and of course the tragic death of Mozart that Haydn had to live through. Just two buddies writing some great stuff and having to deal with court situations and sometimes treated with little regard, though I think Haydn was luckier than Mozart because he wasn’t as temperamental. There was still a lot going on around Haydn though his own life doesn’t appear very exciting on the surface despite being quite successful and triumphant at the end with such acceptance and approval.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Open Book said:


> Maybe Mozart would never have made it either without the apocryphal Salieri poisoning plot element.


the BBC Mozart documentary doesn't contain any of the apocryphal Salieri poisoning plot element. Have you watched it?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Biopics need to be good drama and often jettison accuracy and truth to deliver this. If a drama about Haydn were to be powerful as a drama it would surely fill our minds with misconceptions of who Haydn was. Take Amadeus - a great drama by a very talented playwright - and look at how it has influenced so much of what we think we know about Mozart (and poor Salieri). I'm all for great drama but I am also for a real understanding of who the greats really were.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

"Celebrating Haydn With Peter Ustinov," a TV movie from 1994, is as close to a biopic as anyone has come on Josef Haydn. It is well worth watching though the video version isn't available anywhere to my knowledge. It is quite good, the musical portions wonderful, and some sections viewable on YouTube.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Larkenfield said:


> There was also a Hollywood biopic from 1947 about Robert and Clara Schumann, called "Song of Love."
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing a buddy film with Haydn and Mozart set in the billiard parlor. (!) Lots of last-minute concert preparations and lots of music. Actually, Haydn was quite popular with the ladies though he didn't consider himself a very attractive man. But there could be some good fights between Haydn and his Albatros of a wife that he never got along with, and Mozart could be up to his usual pranks, as the classical era is peaking and of course the tragic death of Mozart that Haydn had to live through. Just two buddies writing some great stuff and having to deal with court situations and sometimes treated with little regard, though I think Haydn was luckier than Mozart because he wasn't as temperamental. There was still a lot going on around Haydn though his own life doesn't appear very exciting on the surface despite being quite successful and triumphant at the end with such acceptance and approval.


Funny scenario. Were they really close buddies, Mozart and Haydn?

I just heard Berlin Philharmonic play Haydn's symphony 95 live. That's two weeks of Haydn in a row. Wonderful!


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2019)

Open Book said:


> Funny scenario. Were they really close buddies, Mozart and Haydn?


It's well documented that Haydn (1732-1809) and Mozart (1756-91) knew each quite well other and admired each other's works. How often they met is not certain since they lived and worked in separate areas. Haydn is recorded as stating that he considered the young Mozart to be the brightest musical prospect he had ever come across.

If ever any movie mogul decided to do a "biopic" on Haydn, they would have to have at least two actors, possibly more, in order to cover his entire musical career, as he began quite young and didn't stop composing until he was about 70.

For most of his career he was technically a "servant" in the employment of the Esterházy family as kapellmeister, some way distant from Vienna. Even though a "servant" he was still highly revered over much of Europe as the top man. That's why Beethoven went to become a student of Haydn when Beethoven left Bonn for further training.

When that part of Haydn's life reached an end in/around 1790 he decided to take up an offer to come to London to give some concerts. I believe he made two separate visits, and wrote the "London" symphonies, Nos 93-104. He was paid handsomely for these works, earning more than he had earned in his entire previous career. By all accounts, he very much enjoyed his time in London, and whilst there he kept meticulous notes on much of what he observed by way of the architecture etc, the sights.

I believe he eventually returned to the palace at Esterhazy in 1795 in order to resume his former duties, but he enjoyed a higher status than before, and was required to do far less work. Later on he retired to Vienna where he lived out the remainder of his life, but he still carried on composing until about 1800.

There is an alternative version of Haydn's abilities and accomplishments which is far less glowing, in fact just the opposite. The story is entirely without foundation, but it has been suggested by one particular person (with limited support from a small number of others) that he was a fraud, like Mozart. The following thread will help explain what I'm referring to. There were several other threads in a similar vein, that followed this one that lingered on at T-C for many months. Similar themes had been were pursued previously on other forums, and were picked up again on others once they died out here. They all eventually died out, but only after a lot of often very heated debate.

The Controversy over the true musical achievements of Haydn and Mozart


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Robert Newman's weird effort to expose Mozart as a fraud comes up again an again on the web. The broad consensus is that he is not worth anyone's time. I didn't know he'd taken his ax after Haydn too.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> Robert Newman's weird effort to expose Mozart as a fraud comes up again an again on the web. The broad consensus is that he is not worth anyone's time. I didn't know he'd taken his ax after Haydn too.


Indeed it's all rubbish, but he certainly had a very long run for his money both at T=C and several forums before he was finally shown the door. As you will see from his first and longest thread here at T-C, he thought Haydn was just as guilty as Mozart. He concentrated on Mozart because that's where he had done the most work. At one stage, he accused Beethoven of fraudulent behaviour, but he didn't pursue that very far. I know several people who spent a lot of time attacking his arguments.


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## Gabrielli (Nov 8, 2018)

Open Book said:


> Haydn has too much going against him to have a movie made about him. First there's that nickname "Papa Haydn".
> 
> Compare him to other composers who have had movie biographies: Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Chopin. He doesn't have a colorful enough personality and backstory. There's no great romance in his life. I don't think any of his music is well known to the vast majority who never listen to classical music except in tiny bites -- nothing like the Ode to Joy or the Turkish March. You probably can't make a movie marketed to just a few knowledgeable classical listeners.
> 
> ...






(Not entirely historically accurate, but realy good)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Partita said:


> Indeed it's all rubbish, but he certainly had a very long run for his money both at T=C and several forums before he was finally shown the door. As you will see from his first and longest thread here at T-C, he thought Haydn was just as guilty as Mozart. He concentrated on Mozart because that's where he had done the most work. At one stage, he accused Beethoven of fraudulent behaviour, but he didn't pursue that very far. I know several people who spent a lot of time attacking his arguments.


Artistic "fraud" is a fascinating subject, whether it involves forgery, plagiarism, or simply accusations of misattribution. Alleging it about a famous composer is a great way to get attention. Newman may actually have attained immortality.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

PBS in USA produced *Celebrating Haydn With Peter Ustinov* in 1994, the closest thing I know to a bio of the composer. It is very good, extraordinarily good in the musical presentations that were filmed in the Esterhazy palace, and full of the humor that was Josef Haydn himself. The section on the Farewell symphony is a highlight. The video never came out as DVD and I couldn't find a copy of either anywhere. There are some selections of it on YouTube including some of Italian language.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Partita said:


> Indeed it's all rubbish, but he certainly had a very long run for his money both at T=C and several forums before he was finally shown the door. As you will see from his first and longest thread here at T-C, he thought Haydn was just as guilty as Mozart. He concentrated on Mozart because that's where he had done the most work. At one stage, he accused Beethoven of fraudulent behaviour, but he didn't pursue that very far. I know several people who spent a lot of time attacking his arguments.


An amusing conspiracy theory. Plot to maintain the supremacy of Germanic composers - helped by the Jesuits - Mozart and Haydn - both talentless hacks - paid Luchesi and some others to supply finished works.


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