# The Fourth (as far as I know) Installment of the 30-Day Opera Challenge



## Queen of the Nerds (Dec 22, 2014)

So some of you who have been here for a long time might remember that mamascarlatti and amfortas have done three installments of the 30-Day opera challenge. I have decided to do a fourth installment. So, without further adieu, the opera challenge info:
There are 30 questions, one for each day starting today. Please answer as many questions as you can over the course of the 30 days. If you start after the first day, do not start from the beginning of the list. Instead, please start with the question for that day. Pictures and videos can be posted as part of your responses. 

And now... The OFFICIAL question list!
TC THIRTY DAY OPERA CHALLENGE, ROUND FOUR

1. Best opening scene.
2. Aria you think is scary.
3. Best purely instrumental moment (aside from overtures/preludes).
4. Smartest opera character.
5. Classic movie that should be made into an opera.
6. Favorite opera director.
7. Opera that best illustrates Murphy's Law (whatever can go wrong, will go wrong).
8. Best seduction scene.
9. Opera composer most likely to win in a bar fight.
10. Best suicide.
11. Opera house you've visited most.
12. Best a cappella moment.
13. Superhero who would make the best subject for an opera.
14. Opera with the best music (forgetting the libretto).
15. Which opera role would you most like to play?
16. Best magical/supernatural moment.
17. Two characters from different operas who were made for each other.
18. Best unfinished opera.
19. Role you wish a favorite singer would attempt. (Please include the favorite singer.)
20. Best use of opera in pop culture.
21. Dumbest opera character.
22. Opera with the hardest stage effect to bring off successfully. (Please specify the stage effect.)
23. Which opera has been best represented in DVD productions?
24. Best moment of complete silence.
25. Italian, French, German, Eastern European (Russian, Czech, and Hungarian), or English opera?
26. Best opera curse.
27. Current event that should be made into an opera.
28. Funniest moment in an opera.
29. Career advice you would give to one particular singer.
30. Most disappointing opera ending.


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## Queen of the Nerds (Dec 22, 2014)

Each question time (the time during which a particular question will be answered) will end at 8:30 AM CST.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Best opening scene:

Nozze di Figaro. In two beautiful and involving duets the two main characters, the setting (the marriage preparations of Susanna and Figaro) and the problem at the heart of the plot (the Count's agenda) are introduced in an incredibly natural way.

N.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

When I thought about this I realised I couldn't recall the opening bars of most operas, even some of my favourites. But there is one that stands out for its tremendous orchestral blast in the opening notes. The drama of a ship trying to make harbour in a storm played out by the orchestra and chorus and then.... Esultate! I'm drained just thinking about it.

Best opening scene: Otello


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Best opening scene: I'd have to say La Forza Del Destino. Who in their right mind drops a loaded gun to the floor. Only in opera


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

1. Best opening scene

Verdi Otello

Storm plus Esultate! Wow! Viva Verdi!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> When I thought about this I realised I couldn't recall the opening bars of most operas, even some of my favourites. But there is one that stands out for its tremendous orchestral blast in the opening notes. The drama of a ship trying to make harbour in a storm played out by the orchestra and chorus and then.... Esultate! I'm drained just thinking about it.
> 
> Best opening scene: Otello


Darn, wished I'd thought of that before Figaro...

N.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Don Giovanni. 

Leporello's wonderful entrance aria followed by a rape and a murder -- all in less than six minutes! 

And all set to the most sublime music...


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Walkure Act 3...................
Nothing compares to Wagner.
The most exciting and well known opening of all.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Best opening... Maybe Rigoletto? Questa o quella, you get a vivid picture of the Duke's predatory ways, the shallow and cruel noblemen at court, then Rigoletto mocking Monterone, Monterone cursing Rigoletto, and Rigoletto's horror, all in the first 15 minutes.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Das Rheingold
Most revolutionary opening ever.
Nothing tops Wagner


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

This will be a weird response but, best opening scene: the plane landing in Nixon in China. The chorus, the anticipation of whatever bombastic and showy stage manner in which the plane will "land," and Nixon's first aria. It's such a "meta-opening," so full of itself, and in that way, so very operatic.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

I would have to go with the opening scene of Das Rheingold, in which Alberich the dwarf steals the gold from the Rhinemaidens. This scene sets in motion the greatest drama, perhaps, in all of opera. The opening four minutes contain the seed that gives birth to virtually every motif that you hear throughout the duration of the 15-hour cycle. It is impossible for me to imagine a more effective and dramatic musical beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Iuf1NOAWvug#t=28


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'd have to go with the opening scene of *Otello* too, from the opening storm to Otello's _Esultate_. Thrilling stuff.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

For musical and visual impact I agree that *Otello *is a winner. What about *Tannhauser*? A first look at the interior of the Venusberg and all the wild and wonderful interpretations that have been offered up by directors over the years.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Celloman said:


> I would have to go with the opening scene of Das Rheingold, in which Alberich the dwarf steals the gold from the Rhinemaidens. This scene sets in motion the greatest drama, perhaps, in all of opera. The opening four minutes contain the seed that gives birth to virtually every motif that you hear throughout the duration of the 15-hour cycle. It is impossible for me to imagine a more effective and dramatic musical beginning.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Iuf1NOAWvug#t=28


You beat me to the punch, Celloman. There's magic down there in the depths of the _Urwasser_. I'll never forget the thrill of hearing that low Eb in the opera house. It came from everywhere and nowhere. _Pace_ Anna Russell, it was nothing like the Hudson or the Thames.


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

There's a magnificent prelude, and then the curtain rises to a congregation in church, singing a chorale... but there are these strange interludes between the phrases of the chorale, little tunes that will become important later in the opera...

Of course, I'm referring to Die Meistersinger.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

While I can strongly agree with _Das Rheingold, Die Meistersinger & Otello_, perhaps the greatest opening of any opera is the 'sneeze' in Kodaly's _Hary Janos_!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> While I can strongly agree with _Das Rheingold, Die Meistersinger & Otello_, perhaps the greatest opening of any opera is the 'sneeze' in Kodaly's _Hary Janos_!


Perhaps that's Kodaly's way of encouraging the audience to get it's upper respiratory business over with quickly so that the evening's entertainment can proceed.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

If you count 4-act version of Don Carlo... I would vote for that.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

One of my favorites is the first scene of Poulenc's "Dialogues des carmélites".


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Pietro Mascagni´s Iris first the sung is singing then Iris is outside her house singing an aria about a scary dream.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

are we on scary arias? I'll go for Hagen calling the Vassals: Hoiho! Hoihohoho! Ihr Gibichsmannen, machet euch auf! (from Gotterdammerung.)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

howlingfantods said:


> are we on scary arias? I'll go for Hagen calling the Vassals: Hoiho! Hoihohoho! Ihr Gibichsmannen, machet euch auf! (from Gotterdammerung.)


Yeah that is scary! Bu what about Scarpia's Te Deum in Tosca?


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Iago's Credo from Verdi's _Otello_.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

"Credo in un Dio crudel"

Otello - Verdi

Iago is one bad dude. This aria chills my blood every time.

P.S. Balthazar, we must have had the same brain wave!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Lady Macbeth's _La luce langue_, especially in Callas's 1952 live performance with Victor De Sabata conjuring up all sorts of nightmarish ghouls from the orchestra pit.


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## Green pasture (Aug 11, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Lady Macbeth's _La luce langue_, especially in Callas's 1952 live performance with Victor De Sabata conjuring up all sorts of nightmarish ghouls from the orchestra pit.











YT friend turnipoverlord's upload of this particular scene from the BJR LP edition (best sound) of the 1952 La Scala performance:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Do scenas count as an aria?

"E che, io son Medea!" Most scariest sung by Callas in Florence:






N.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Not strictly an aria but every time Otrud turns she scares the hell out of me.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I was tempted to go for Iago's Credo from Otello, and certainly agree about the chilling La Luce Langue, but I think Scarpia's Te Deum (*Tosca*) just edges it for sheer menace, certainly enhanced by the contrast of the choral background.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Braddan said:


> Not strictly an aria but every time Otrud turns she scares the hell out of me.


With a great mezzo-soprano like Christa Ludwig hurling it across the footlights, Ortrud's "Entweihte Gotter" is about the most fearsome minute and a half you could live through.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> With a great mezzo-soprano like Christa Ludwig hurling it across the footlights, Ortrud's "Entweihte Gotter" is about the most fearsome minute and a half you could live through.


Thanks for that link-awesome in the true sense of the word.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

As a tenor I'd have to say the scariest aria is Di quella pira with those high Cs


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

"Hagen's Watch on the Rhine" from _Gotterdammerung_ makes me shiver and shudder. Here's some pure blackness from Ludwig Weber in 1936:


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

In _Dialogues des Carmelites_, the death of Mother Superior, when done correctly, can be pretty creepy:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Opening of Act 3 of Tristan.
Devestating


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Opening of Walkure. Amazing


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

So we'e on to best instrumental passage now? Sorry, guys above, but it says no overtures or preludes... but that still leaves me with Siegfried's Funeral Music from *Gotterdammerung*. Spine-tingling-goose-bumping-nerve-shredding moments of genius.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

oops, sorry  ..............................


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The ghostly sailor chorus in Hollander.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Nibelheim..............


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Feels like we're skipping ahead...

But ok, non-overture instrumental music. In other words, the contest for all the Wagner fans.

Transformation music from Parsifal:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Forest Murmurs
Siegfrieds Rhine Journey


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Immolation scene
Gotterdammerung


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

What the...? Last I checked, today's subject is "scary arias." Why are people naming unscary orchestral passages? Does this thread need moderator intervention, as in:

This thread has gone off-topic.

It isn't tomorrow anywhere in the world.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

3. As it's the tird day here I'll name the Immolation scene from Gotterdamerung


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

3. The finale of Act I from _Don Giovanni_ when three orchestras on stage play three different tunes simultaneously.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Siegfrieds Rhine Journey


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Siegfrieds Funeral Music


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Entrance of Gods to Valhalla


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Good Friday Music, Parsifal


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Transformation Music, Parsifal


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Woodduck said:


> What the...? Last I checked, today's subject is "scary arias." Why are people naming unscary orchestral passages? Does this thread need moderator intervention, as in:
> 
> This thread has gone off-topic.
> 
> It isn't tomorrow anywhere in the world.


More confusion to come, I expect. Better to have started this on the first of the the month?


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Lohengrin
-Wedding March

Das Rheingold
-interludes
-Bridge music

Die Walkure
-Ride of the Valkries
-Magic fire music

Siegfried
-Forest murmurs
-Act 3 transformation music

Gotterdammerung
-Siegfried's Rhine journey
-Siegfried's funeral march
-Immolation scene

Tristan und Isolde
-Tristan's entrance in Act 2

Die Meistersinger
-Dance of the Apprentices

Parsifal
-Transformation music
-Good Friday music

There. I've listed all of them. Now we can move on to the next question.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Best instrumental passage - everyone was tempted to list some Wagner of course, but this is what I have in mind: Finale of Act 1 of Francesca da Rimini by Zandonai. This is sublime!


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> What the...? Last I checked, today's subject is "scary arias." Why are people naming unscary orchestral passages? Does this thread need moderator intervention, as in:
> 
> This thread has gone off-topic.
> 
> It isn't tomorrow anywhere in the world.


Heh, sorry about that.

Now that it's today, my vote is still for the Parsifal Transformation music. It's actually a tough call whether I prefer the Transformation from Act 1 over Act 3, but I found the clips more easily on Youtube for Act 1 

Honorable mention for Siegfried's Trauermusik.

eta - oops I meant act 3 not act 2 of course.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 3. As it's the tird day here I'll name the Immolation scene from Gotterdamerung


Last time I heard that it had a soprano singing with the orchestra (so not really an instrumental moment).

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There are many fine instrumental moments in Wagner, however, I too would choose a Verismo moment.

The intermezzo from Mascagni's l'amico Fritz.

N.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

The Conte said:


> Last time I heard that it had a soprano singing with the orchestra (so not really an instrumental moment).
> 
> N.


I think they are referring to the instrumental segment that ends the work after she jumps into the funeral pyre.

Anyways, I side with howlingfantods if I have to choose. The transformation music in Parsifal is absolutely otherwordly.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Itullian said:


> Siegfrieds Rhine Journey


I think that one too.

So many great suggestions so it is hard to decide.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I guessed there'd be quite a few Wagner suggestions, so let me give a few Verdi ones.

The intro to Act I of *Simon Boccangera* leading to Amelia's _Come in quest'ora bruna_, which is a wonderful evocation of sunlight on the sea.

The mysterious intro to Lady Macbeth's Sleepwalking Scene

The wonderfully melancholic opening to Act IV scene i of *Don Carlos* which leads in to King Philip's _Ella giammai m'amo_


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Royal Hunt and Storm from Berlioz's *Les Troyens*.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

The storm and Gilda's murder in Rigoletto. Please don't do it -he's not worth it you silly girl.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Siegfried passing thru the Magic Fire.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Descent and ascent from Nibelheim.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Baaaaaaaaam - bum bum, 
bah-bump

Baaaaaam -bum bum, 
bah-bump


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

So, smartest today, right? I considered the Merry Widows in Falstaff or Figaro, especially since he's clever in two great operas. But I guess I'll go with who I figure will probably be the top candidate in Iago, who really does put together a pretty complex plan (much more detailed than, "hey Count, dress up like a soldier to get in this house!"), and is quick to find ways to build on his plan when opportunity arises.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

4. I also vote for Verdi's Iago -- howlingfantods beat me to it.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Perhaps the Marschallin from Der Rosenkavalier? At least one of the _wisest_ with her special awareness of time and ability to adapt to change, enabling her to come to terms with herself and direct the comedy and the romance to their right conclusions.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Why aren't we able to delete duplicate posts?


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

You have until morning to figure out who I have chosen. This riddle solving guy managed to keep his head when all others were losing theirs.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> You have until morning to figure out who I have chosen. This riddle solving guy managed to keep his head when all others were losing theirs.


The Unknown Prince - Calaf.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Three of Rossini's comic ladies, Rosina, Fiorilla and Isabella. They are all pretty clever.

Maybe Gianni Schicchi?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Prelude of _Mefistofele_.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Maybe Gianni Schicchi?


Good one! [thumbs-up emoticon which we conspicuously lack...]


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

[deleted cuz I didn't read the instructions]


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

For smartest opera character, I'm going to go with Rodrigo from Don Carlo. He knows how to keep royals from going hysterical, knows how to flirt, knows how to deliver secret messages, and knows how to talk smack to a king.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

graziesignore said:


> For smartest opera character, I'm going to go with Rodrigo from Don Carlo. He knows how to keep royals from going hysterical, knows how to flirt, knows how to deliver secret messages, and knows how to talk smack to a king.


Still gets himself killed though!


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Gianni Schicchi without a doubt!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> You have until morning to figure out who I have chosen. This riddle solving guy managed to keep his head when all others were losing theirs.


I thought exactly the same Calaf.
Not only that he knows how to risk his head again to make Turandot to love him.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There are far too many men being chosen here.

I pick Susanna from nozze di Figaro.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> There are far too many men being chosen here.
> 
> I pick Susanna from nozze di Figaro.
> 
> N.


I chose three women - and Gianni Schicchi!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I chose three women - and Gianni Schicchi!


I know, but you were the only poster who choose women (did someone else choose Merry Wives as well up thread?)

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I know, but you were the only poster who choose women (did someone else choose Merry Wives as well up thread?)
> 
> N.


I'm not sure, but they should have done.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Hans Sachs..........


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Itullian said:


> Hans Sachs..........


I'm not impressed... There's a many a smarter Wagner character than that...

N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Hans Sachs..........


He didn't get the girl though............


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> He didn't get the girl though............


But he didn´t try to get the girl.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Alice Ford in Falstaff - she makes fools of the men


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

DavidA said:


> He didn't get the girl though............


He was bigger and wiser than that.
And he got the love of the whole town.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Sloe said:


> But he didn´t try to get the girl.


He wasn't smart enough! :lol:


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

The Conte said:


> I know, but you were the only poster who choose women (did someone else choose Merry Wives as well up thread?)
> 
> N.


Apparently I'm invisible. 


The Conte said:


> I'm not impressed... There's a many a smarter Wagner character than that...
> 
> N.


He seems to be a true artist and savant to me. I'm curious who you would deem smarter. Of course a character like Hagen could be classified as smart in a totally different, manipulative sort of way. Although now that I think about it, Sachs is smart enough to manipulate events so that they come out the way he wants them to as well...


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

DavidA said:


> He wasn't smart enough! :lol:


He was too smart! :lol:


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Still gets himself killed though!


But ah, he _wanted_ to get killed! Who's smarter now???


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

graziesignore said:


> But ah, he _wanted_ to get killed! Who's smarter now???


Well it's arguable whether that makes him smart or noble? Smart to me is someone who cunningly keeps himself out of trouble, and exploits a situation to his own ends. Gianni Schicchi wins hands down! :lol:


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

The shepherd boy from Tosca. He doesn't get involved in anything that could get him killed. Just tends to his sheep and sings a bit.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

graziesignore said:


> For smartest opera character, I'm going to go with Rodrigo from Don Carlo. He knows how to keep royals from going hysterical, knows how to flirt, knows how to deliver secret messages, and knows how to talk smack to a king.


Yeah, I have the feel that he's a fairly intelligent fellow myself. But I'm a bit biased.....any opportunity to vote for Don Carlo!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

GregMitchell said:


> Well it's arguable whether that makes him smart or noble? Smart to me is someone who cunningly keeps himself out of trouble, and exploits a situation to his own ends. Gianni Schicchi wins hands down! :lol:


Yeah, Gianni Schicci is pretty darn cunning!


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

So, classic movies?

Film noir seems like a pretty easy fit--murder, lust, fascinating femmes fatale, satisfying grim endings. They're practically verismo plots in different settings. 

I can think of a bunch of movies but Double Indemnity springs to mind as one with a great set of central characters, and you could do interesting things with the framing device of Neff confessing into his dictaphone thing. Or if you wanted to be a little more contemporary, you could do fun things with The Last Seduction.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

5. _Casablanca_. Great characters, exotic locale, a nice flashback, good villains, a fair bit of comic relief.

Let's do it!


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Psycho could be fun; imagine the shower scene death aria!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

5. Classic movie that should be made into an opera.

Gone with the Wind if it hasn't already gone!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Faustian said:


> Psycho could be fun; imagine the shower scene death aria!


I wonder Bernard Hermann didn't write an opera from the music he had written for the score.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Citizen Kane. Some of its plot already revolves around opera.

Always strikes me as a shame that Puccini didn't actually write *Phantom of the Opera*.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

The good, the bad and the ugly. What a trio at the end. Endless possibilities with Sergio Leone.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Diminuendo said:


> The good, the bad and the ugly. What a trio at the end. Endless possibilities with Sergio Leone.


Once Upon a Time in the West is already sort of quasi-operatic, isn't it? Especially in the way all the characters have their own themes...


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

The problem with westerns is that for the most part, the protagonists are strong but silent archetypes. You can't really imagine Clint Eastwood breaking out into extended song to express how he's feeling about something. It seems like a polar opposite of the role, something that the Simpsons beautifully captured when the family gathered to watch that musical with Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood, Paint Your Wagon.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Ben-Hur. With the chariot race staged as a ballet.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I think we could do with more operatic comedies and more Spanish operas so I think Almodovar's Todo sobre mi madre would make a great opera.

From Wikipedia:
"The film grew out of a brief scene in The Flower of My Secret, telling the story of a mourning mother who, after reading the last entry in her dead son's journal about how he wishes to meet his father for the first time, decides to travel to Barcelona in search of the boy's father. She must tell the father that she had their son after she left him many years ago, and that he has now died. Once there, she encounters a number of odd characters - a transsexual prostitute, a pregnant nun, and a lesbian actress - all of whom help her cope with her grief.

The film revisited Almodóvar's familiar themes of the power of sisterhood and of family. Dedicated to Bette Davis, Romy Schneider and Gena Rowlands, All About My Mother is steeped in theatricality, from its backstage setting to its plot, modeled on the works of Federico García Lorca and Tennessee Williams, to the characters' preoccupation with modes of performance.

The comic relief on the film centers on Agrado, a pre-operative transsexual. In one scene, she tells the story of her body and its relationship to plastic surgery and silicone, culminating with a statement of her own philosophy: "you get to be more authentic the more you become like what you have dreamed of yourself".[37]

All About My Mother received more awards and honors than any other film in the Spanish motion picture industry.[38] Its recognition includes an Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film, a Golden Globe in the same category, Best Director Award and the Prize of the Ecumenical Jury Award at Cannes;[39] the French Cesar for Best Foreign Film, the Goya Award as best film of the year, best Actress in a Leading Role for Argentine actress Cecilia Roth and a twelfth Annual European Film Award."

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I think we could do with more operatic comedies and more Spanish operas so I think Almodovar's Todo sobre mi madre would make a great opera.
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> "The film grew out of a brief scene in The Flower of My Secret, telling the story of a mourning mother who, after reading the last entry in her dead son's journal about how he wishes to meet his father for the first time, decides to travel to Barcelona in search of the boy's father. She must tell the father that she had their son after she left him many years ago, and that he has now died. Once there, she encounters a number of odd characters - a transsexual prostitute, a pregnant nun, and a lesbian actress - all of whom help her cope with her grief.
> ...


I love this movie. I also remember a stage production of it at the Old Vic in London with Diana Rigg as the diva.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

6. Favorite opera director.

Jean-Pierre Ponnelle. His early death was a tragedy


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Iago's Credo aria in _Otello_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Poker Scene in _La fanciulla del west_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> The Prelude of _Mefistofele_.


Oops. I really am unable to follow this sequence. Very strict rules. I see that I came late to the party and my choices are all over the place. Faustian: H-E-L-P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

_On the Waterfront_ with Alagna/Damrau/Lucic


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> 6. Favorite opera director.
> 
> Jean-Pierre Ponnelle. His early death was a tragedy


Are we there yet? I'm getting a mite confused.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Queen of the Nerds said:


> Each question time (the time during which a particular question will be answered) will end at 8:30 AM CST.


Post #2 specifies that the Question Day resets at 8:30 a.m. CST = 9:30 a.m. EST = 2:30 p.m. GMT.

Or about one hour ago.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

6. Dmitri Tcherniakov.

His re-imagining of _Don Giovanni_ as a familial drama in the Aix production with Bo Skovhus was brilliant. I also appreciated his Met _Prince Igor_ which spared us from another Polovtsian Dances straight out of National Geographic.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Director? Zeffirelli


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 6. Favorite opera director.
> 
> Jean-Pierre Ponnelle. His early death was a tragedy


Ponnelle for me as well


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Richard Jones

N.


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## Green pasture (Aug 11, 2015)

7. Opera that best illustrates Murphy's Law (whatever can go wrong, will go wrong)

Il Trovatore: Leonora tried desperately to save her love Manrico by giving herself to the Conte and then sacrifice her own life by taking poison, but this ends up with the acceleration of Manrico's end (ordered by an enraged Conte).


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The Ring

Contes d'Hoffman


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## Jorge Hereth (Aug 16, 2015)

Every opera will always be the one to best illustrate Murphy's Law, you just decide to put it on stage.

Spend the last two hours before a presentation in an opera theater and give a look at the setup preparations: you'll firmly believe the presentation will have to be cancelled because:
- music sheets of right that opera for the orchestra and conductor are unfindable
- music sheet holders in insufficient numbers and nobody has a clue where the remaining ones have gone
- equipment breaking right while heavy stage decoration is brought up to be assembled behind the stage
- audience seats needing a last minute nailing because the fixing job ordered a week before has never been done and stage workers just hope that will keep the respective seats together
- a stage plank will not make it until the end of the presentation and no joiner or carpenter will still be working at that time
- etc. etc. etc...

Orchestra, choir and singers having arrived it's realized:
- the tailor had received wrong measurements and his stage clothes will not fit the tenor
- in compensation the stage dress for the soprano is too long she will certainly stumble and urgent last-minute measures must be taken by the cashier girl who should be doing her own job but she's the only one who knows how to sew it a way it will hold
- the conductor has forgotten his concert trousers
- a cello bow has broken on the way to the theater
- the curtain mechanism is stuck
- etc. etc. etc...

And once the show has started nevertheless, the entire working crew gives signs of relief, but everybody knows it's not necessarily the end; risks of something going wrong continue:
- a stage worker on the catwalk spills his refreshment drink right over the mezzo-soprano
- some choir singers and musicians start showing serious signs they're pretty intimate with Mary Joan but the grass was spoiled
- a violinist starts suffering from diarrhea in the middle of the second act
- a choir girl starts menstruating at the start of the third act, right the one wearing a white dress, and she has believed it would take another day
- a trumpeter gets ill
- etc. etc. etc...

And during all stages from the beginning to the end:
- the delivery van bringing the needed things has been pulled over by police

There's so many things unpredictable, specially from the last two hours before an opera starts until the presentation being over, and which all must be solved within minutes, and most of them occur after stores and workshops which could serve for a logical solution have already closed...

And solutions have to be given quickly and discreetly, the audience may not even dream of what's going on...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

We all know the story of the stroppy soprano singing Tosca who the stage hands sabotaged by putting a trampoline under her when she leapt from the balcony so she reappeared several times. In another production some inexperienced stage hands were drafted in for the last act as soldiers coming to arrest Tosca. All they were told was 'run after her'. So they ran after Tosca as she sang "Scarpia, before God" and jumped. The audience were then surprised to see four soldiers jumping after her! :lol:


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

plumblossom said:


> 7. Opera that best illustrates Murphy's Law (whatever can go wrong, will go wrong)
> 
> Il Trovatore: Leonora tried desperately to save her love Manrico by giving herself to the Conte and then sacrifice her own life by taking poison, but this ends up with the acceleration of Manrico's end (ordered by an enraged Conte).


And throwing the wrong baby to the fire. Azucena getting caught and Manrico's failed rescue attempt. Count killing his own brother. What more is there to go wrong?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There was a production of Gotterdamerung where the two stagehands who had to carry Siegfried off after his murder had not time for a rehearsal. Anyway after the murder they come in and hoist the hero on their shoulders and carry him off. Sadly they were facing in different directions as they walked off, much to the amusement of the audience! :lol:


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## Jorge Hereth (Aug 16, 2015)

I didn't know that story, but deducing from what you're telling for the trampoline, I'm pretty sure there was no sabotage but the original device to keep the soprano unharmed had gone missing and the trampoline was the only replacement that could be found; one of those last-minute solutions, and I bet someone responsible -if present while the decision was mad - or the stage workers themselves had underestimated the effect a trampoline could make.

Now for the stage hands at Tosca's jump, the experienced ones usually know the operas they are or have been working at. But the unexperienced ones, too often it's the case that if they are not explained every on-stage step of theirs before, such things are pretty likely to happen, and too often scene directors forget about that one or just don't have the time to tell them what to do exactly...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Jorge Hereth said:


> I didn't know that story, but deducing from what you're telling for the trampoline, I'm pretty sure there was no sabotage but the original device to keep the soprano unharmed had gone missing and the trampoline was the only replacement that could be found; one of those last-minute solutions, and I bet someone responsible -if present while the decision was mad - or the stage workers themselves had underestimated the effect a trampoline could make.
> 
> Now for the stage hands at Tosca's jump, the experienced ones usually know the operas they are or have been working at. But the unexperienced ones, too often it's the case that if they are not explained every on-stage step of theirs before, such things are pretty likely to happen, and too often scene directors forget about that one or just don't have the time to tell them what to do exactly...


The story goes that the soprano had been so obnoxious the stage hands sabotaged her with the trampoline so she reappeared several times after her jump.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Don Giovanni (from the Don's perspective AND assuming that the opening scene contains an attempted rape).

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Worst of all, Gelb's dream of that costly "Machine Contraption" in _Das Rheingold _


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Forza. Just a ridiculous sequence of coincidences and rotten luck that leads to everyone's death, starting with Alvaro killing Leonora's dad by accident.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

7. _Il Trovatore_ is my pick. _Macbeth_ would be second with some help from Shakespeare. There aren't too many operas where things go smoothly.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

8. Alagna/Garanca (_Carmen_)
also ran: Netrebko/Villazon (_Romeo et Juliette_)


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## Jorge Hereth (Aug 16, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> ...
> 
> There aren't too many operas where things go smoothly.


You bet on that one...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

8. Best seduction scene is probably when Carmen gets Jose to free her then later ensnares him.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tristan and Isolde's exchanges in act one of Tristan. Potion Schmotion, methinks those two doth protest to much.

Why is this a seduction scene? Psychologists will tell you that playing hard to get can be the best way to attract someone.

N.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Carmen would probably get my vote too.
Does said seduction need to be successful?
Don Giovanni is one long seduction scene and there are the almost equally questionable attempts by the disguised protagonists of _Cosi_. Mmm...Mozart...do I see a pattern?


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

8. The Saint-Sulpice scene where Massenet's Manon seduces the Chevalier-turned-priest.

_"N'est-ce plus ma main, que cette main presse? N'est-ce plus ma voix?"_

I know it wasn't there during the time of Louis XIV when the opera is set, but Massenet (along with his audience) was presumably familiar with Delacroix's mural of _Jacob Wrestling with the Angel_ installed in one of the chapels at Saint-Sulpice. No doubt the temporal purists will scoff, but I find it a serendipitously fitting metaphor for Des Grieux's embattled conscience and like to imagine him gazing at it while singing _"Ah, fuyez, douce image!"_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> 8. Alagna/Garanca (_Carmen_)
> also ran: Netrebko/Villazon (_Romeo et Juliette_)


Wow! Big ERROR!
I meant Netrebko/Villazon _Manon_! (St. Sulpice scene. Hotsy totsy)


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

And now I'm suddenly reminded of Thais. Talk about a delayed reaction. Is there such a thing as post-seduction syndrome? If so, then Athanael must surely be suffering.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Braddan said:


> Carmen would probably get my vote too.
> Does said seduction need to be successful?
> Don Giovanni is one long seduction scene and there are the almost equally questionable attempts by the disguised protagonists of _Cosi_. Mmm...Mozart...do I see a pattern?


the problem is that, for all the numbers in his book, the Don is unsuccessful throughout the opera!

The final seduction scene between tenor / soprano in Cosi ranks with the greatest. With singing like that how could she refuse.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

We must be onto the next question by now. Opera Composer most likely to win in a bar brawl?

Wagner seemed to be getting into scrapes a lot, but then Puccini had quite a macho image with his 'Cars, Women and Song' persona.

However, my choice goes with Mozart. He'd knock you to the floor, fart in your face and then run away giggling!

N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bar brawl? Beethoven as he had plenty of practice throwing chairs at his servants


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

9. I'll go old school and put my money on Handel. Having dangled a sassy soprano out a window, we know he can walk the walk.

Wagner would probably talk a big game, but when the commotion started, he would probably take the opportunity to run out on his tab. :lol:


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Silly question but I'll stick with Boito who had lots of barroom practice cussing and discussing the relative merits of the new vs. the old school of opera. 
His famous barb at Verdi almost destroyed the duo's magnificent partnership and friendship.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

I'd have to go with Verdi. He could just wait for others to die for old age.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

10. 3 in no special order: Magda Sorel/Tosca/Iago


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

10. Suicide -- Aida. Secretly entombing yourself with your lover rather than living without... And then singing a gorgeous duet.


^ nina foresti, what Iago are you referring to?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> 10. Suicide -- Aida. Secretly entombing yourself with your lover rather than living without... And then singing a gorgeous duet.
> 
> ^ nina foresti, what Iago are you referring to?


The _Otello_ Iago. The Credo alone is worth the role.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> The _Otello_ Iago. The Credo alone is worth the role.


But he doesn't commit suicide does he? Or am I hopelessly lost...


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

10. La Gioconda. _Tu volesti mio corpo, demon maledetto, e il corpo ti do_ (you wanted my body, accursed devil, and my body I give you), as she stabs herself in front of Barnaba.

Mind you, you need a Callas to give it real conviction.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Balthazar said:


> But he doesn't commit suicide does he? Or am I hopelessly lost...


No he doesn't in Verdi's version anyway


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The best suicide has to be Tosca's - I mean jumping from the battlements with the cry, "Scarpia, before God!" Wow!


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

I don't know, you have to love Werther, who shoots himself in the head and continues to sing. Or Gilda, who sacrifices herself for someone who didn't care about her whatsoever.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

ma7730 said:


> I don't know, you have to love Werther, who shoots himself in the head and continues to sing. Or *Gilda*, who sacrifices herself for someone who didn't care about her whatsoever.


A murder not a suicide.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> But he doesn't commit suicide does he? Or am I hopelessly lost...


Oops! Forgive me. I am the one who is hopelessly lost, not you. My eye skipped forward to #15, the role I would most want to play so please nix the Iago (although maybe what we are not aware of is that he actually did do himself in when he heard that Otello was dead -- before they could get to him. LOL)


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Hmm not sure what "best suicide" means... Brunnhilde's immolation maybe? It's my favorite scene of those scenes that involve the suicide of a character. Or Liu's in Turandot might be the most sympathetic, with her offering herself up to protect Timur from torture.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Oops! Forgive me. I am the one who is hopelessly lost, not you. My eye skipped forward to #15, the role I would most want to play so please nix the Iago (although maybe what we are not aware of is that he actually did do himself in when he heard that Otello was dead -- before they could get to him. LOL)


Haha. That explains it. I was a bit confused because your other two picks are indeed suicides!

By the way, thanks for bringing Menotti's _The Consul_ to my attention - I am not at all familiar with it, but it sounds interesting.

:tiphat:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Brunhilde immolation

Senta

Isolde


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> 10. La Gioconda. _Tu volesti mio corpo, demon maledetto, e il corpo ti do_ (you wanted my body, accursed devil, and my body I give you), as she stabs herself in front of Barnaba.
> 
> Mind you, you need a Callas to give it real conviction.


Same for me. Pretty much the ultimate operatic middle finger.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> Haha. That explains it. I was a bit confused because your other two picks are indeed suicides!
> 
> By the way, thanks for bringing Menotti's _The Consul_ to my attention - I am not at all familiar with it, but it sounds interesting.
> 
> :tiphat:


I urge you to find _The Consul_ in the original cast with Patricia Neway & Cornell Macneil. You won't regret it. I would have included it in my top 10 except for the fact that it is all too often considered musical theater rather than opera.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

howlingfantods said:


> Hmm not sure what "best suicide" means... *Brunnhilde's immolation* maybe? It's my favorite scene of those scenes that involve the suicide of a character. Or Liu's in Turandot might be the most sympathetic, with her offering herself up to protect Timur from torture.


Darn, somebody got there before me. It has to be Brunnhilde's immolation, she kills herself and saves the whole world.

N.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Itullian said:


> Brunhilde immolation
> 
> Senta
> 
> Isolde


Is Isolde a suicide? I never really know how to think of these deaths like Isolde's or Elsa's, who just kind of die because it's the end of the opera.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Purcell's Dido yet.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Brunhilde immolation


I always feel sorry for poor old Grane!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> A murder not a suicide.


Well it may have been a murder, but Gilda full well knew what she was doing, so in that sense it was a suicide.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Purcell's Dido yet.


Does Dido commit suicide? I always assumed she just died of a broken heart.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Does Dido commit suicide? I always assumed she just died of a broken heart.


Granted that it isn't clear in Purcell's opera, but in a number of versions, including Virgil, it is evident (often explicit) that Dido kills herself


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Granted that it isn't clear in Purcell's opera, but in a number of versions, including Virgil, it is evident (often explicit) that Dido kills herself


Thanks for clearing that up. I've often wondered.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I always feel sorry for poor old Grane!


Don't worry. Valkyrie horses don't feel pain. How could they, carrying around all those armed amazons and fallen warriors, and having to listen to "Ho-jo-to-ho" day after day?


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Don't worry. Valkyrie horses don't feel pain. How could they, carrying around all those armed amazons and fallen warriors, and having to listen to "Ho-jo-to-ho" day after day?


Wagner's steeds are purebred Valhallan.

Its only the race horse critics who go lame early. They're always the first out of their gait.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> 10. La Gioconda. _Tu volesti mio corpo, demon maledetto, e il corpo ti do_ (you wanted my body, accursed devil, and my body I give you), as she stabs herself in front of Barnaba.
> 
> Mind you, you need a Callas to give it real conviction.


Conviction is a more dangerous an enemy of truth than lies- Callas is LIV-ING 'ART.' _;D_


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

11. Metropolitan Opera (my home away from home)


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

It is not 8:30 am cst yet as I write this.

Best suicide Madama Butterfly dramatic and gruesome like an opera death should be.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

11. Most visited opera house: The Met in New York by a wide margin.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

11. Not near too many opera houses so tend to pick them up from cinema broadcasts or local performances


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The opera house in my own city.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Sloe said:


> The opera house in my own city.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Morimur said:


>


hehehehehehehe:lol:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Royal Opera House, Covent Garden


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Royal Opera House, Covent Garden


Same here, though only a handful of productions.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Royal Opera House, Covent Garden


Must confess that with those now in charge of ROH I'd hesitate to pay out a lot of money for ROH seats. The last production I saw from there was dire.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Must confess that with those now in charge of ROH I'd hesitate to pay out a lot of money for ROH seats. The last production I saw from there was dire.


The last production I saw was *Rigoletto* with Simon Keenlyside. Save for the good looking, but wooden Duke it was superb.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> The last production I saw was *Rigoletto* with Simon Keenlyside. Save for the good looking, but wooden Duke it was superb.


Was this recent?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Was this recent?


Earlier this year.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Good! Was it a reasonably straight production?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Good! Was it a reasonably straight production?


Depends what you mean by "straight" I suppose. Some people objected to David McVicar making the Duke's court as debauched and cruel as he did, but I thought it worked superbly.

Other than that, it was set in the right time period, so I guess it was reasonably traditional.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Depends what you mean by "straight" I suppose. Some people objected to David McVicar making the Duke's court as debauched and cruel as he did, but I thought it worked superbly.
> 
> Other than that, it was set in the right time period, so I guess it was reasonably traditional.


The McVicker productions I've seen have been generally good.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

The San Diego Opera house, purely for the fact that was where I was born and raised and had the opportunity to see the most. Nothing prestigious by any means.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Faustian said:


> The San Diego Opera house, purely for the fact that was where I was born and raised and had the opportunity to see the most. Nothing prestigious by any means.


Alexia Voulgaridou and Frederica von Stade will sing this season they are at least names I recognise.

http://www.sdopera.com/Home

But two Puccini operas in the same season is too much.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sloe said:


> Alexia Voulgaridou and Frederica von Stade will sing this season they are at least names I recognise.
> 
> http://www.sdopera.com/Home
> 
> But two Puccini operas in the same season is too much.


Von Stade is still singing? She turned 70 this year.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Von Stade is still singing? She turned 70 this year.


Apparently she will appear in the Great Scott by Jack Heggie in San Diego this season.
Some singers have long careers.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Alexia Voulgaridou and Frederica von Stade will sing this season they are at least names I recognise.
> 
> http://www.sdopera.com/Home
> 
> But two Puccini operas in the same season is too much.


Yeah, that is one of the biggest gripes I had with them -- for the most part they stick to a very safe and same-y repertoire every season, and only put on 4 productions a year. And to my knowledge they've never staged any of the major music dramas by Wagner past Lohengrin. So I was always disappointed about that.

Although on a positive note I was able to attend very fine productions of Boris Godunov (in 2007) and Der Rosenkavalier (in 2011) there, the only chance I've had to see those works live.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Covent Garden is the house I've been to the most in recent years. I agree that it's very expensive and as I have to make a special trip to get there I always treat myself to a good seat. I've enjoyed almost every production I've seen, including the above mentioned _Rigoletto_. The only one I didn't care for was _Maria Stuarda _last year although the singing (Joyce, of course) was great.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Faustian said:


> Yeah, that is one of the biggest gripes I had with them -- for the most part they stick to a very safe and same-y repertoire every season, and only put on 4 productions a year. And to my knowledge they've never staged any of the major music dramas by Wagner past Lohengrin. So I was always disappointed about that.
> .


They staged the ring in the seventies:

http://www.sdopera.com/Company/PerformanceHistory#2015

I would not say it is more safey and samey than most other opera houses except this season.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Royal Opera House, Covent Garden

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#12: Mefistofele


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

12. Best a cappella moment: climax of _"Son geloso del zefiro errante"_ from _La Sonnambula_. Call-and-response arpeggios which then join up. This is where the tenor earns his keep.

From approximately 4:45 to 5:30 in this clip with Dessay and the amazing Florez. Even the poor sound can't mask the remarkable, easy roundness of Florez's high notes:


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Best a capella moment- Carmen, Don José's 'Halte-là! Qui va là? Dragons d'Alcala!'

(Starts at 1.09 on the video)


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Sloe said:


> They staged the ring in the seventies:
> 
> http://www.sdopera.com/Company/PerformanceHistory#2015
> 
> I would not say it is more safey and samey than most other opera houses except this season.


You're right really. But considering the one and only time The Ring was staged there happened to be before I was born, it really didn't do me too much good! I think with it being 40 years now since they last staged any of Wagner's post-Lohengrin works, its just a tad overdue.


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

I can't really thing of a capella moments in many operas that aren't choruses. The a cappella fluttering in Olympia's doll song from Hoffmann?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

13. Superhero? Maria Callas


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

Batman has always been the most interesting superhero for me, and I think his story would probably work best for an opera. He is an enigmatic figure with a dark past, who battles as much with his inner demons as the villains of Gotham.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

13. The Incredible Hulk. Looking at the size of some opera singers there would be no shortage of candidates to play him (or her)! :lol:


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

You always seem to be cracking jokes at singers weights, I do not really find it funny. Happy you are so amused however.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The Phantom excotic location fantastic adventures.
Since The Phantom is inherited from father to son it could end with the death of The Phantom and the new Phantom appearing.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

OperaChic said:


> You always seem to be cracking jokes at singers weights, I do not really find it funny. Happy you are so amused however.


What did Mr Bennet say: "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?"


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

13. If I can pick a Super Villain, perhaps The Joker, telling the tale of his rivalry with Batman from his perspective _à la_ _Wicked_ or _Maleficent_. Villains are often the more interesting characters.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

14. Best music. Any of the Mozart / da Ponte operas. They also have the best libretti.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#15: Magda Sorel/Tosca


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

14. A toss-up between Tristan und Isolde, Die Meistersinger, Parsifal and Gotterdammerung. And not only are they my favorite operatic scores, I believe that by and large they achieve the greatest synthesis of music and drama ever realized; hence why they are my favorite operas.

But if we're talking best music irregardless of the libretto, The Magic Flute is also up there for me.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Best music without regarding libretto is the same as best music to me--I'm one of those who thinks of libretti mostly as pegs to hang the music on.

So my answer is the same as for my favorite opera - Parsifal.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

14. I'm inclined to think *Otello* and *Falstaff*, then I think of *Norma* (much admired by Wagner as well as Verdi). But then of course there's Mozart, and I find it hard to choose between any of the Da Ponte operas. In another mood I might go for Debussy's *Pelleas et Melisande* or Britten's *Billy Budd*. In yet another, I might go for Monteverdi's *L'Incoronazione di Poppea*. How can one choose between so many disparate glories?

Instead I'll go out on a limb and choose Berlioz's magnificent *Les Troyens*, endlessly fascinating, sublimely beautiful; an opera I find something new in every time I hear it.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> Best music without regarding libretto is the same as best music to me--I'm one of those who thinks of libretti mostly as pegs to hang the music on.
> 
> So my answer is the same as for my favorite opera - Parsifal.


I would say they are interlingued to each other and affect the experience from both and there are also other things this makes it very difficult to decide.
I would say the opera with the best music is the current opera that I listening to or watching at the moment and have heard before because I feel for it and that varies from day to day.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> 14. I'm inclined to think *Otello* and *Falstaff*, then I think of *Norma* (much admired by Wagner as well as Verdi). But then of course there's Mozart, and I find it hard to choose between any of the Da Ponte operas. In another mood I might go for Debussy's *Pelleas et Melisande* or Britten's *Billy Budd*. In yet another, I might go for Monteverdi's *L'Incoronazione di Poppea*. How can one choose between so many disparate glories?
> 
> Instead I'll go out on a limb and choose Berlioz's magnificent *Les Troyens*, endlessly fascinating, sublimely beautiful; an opera I find something new in every time I hear it.





















The "Best" music ever written in opera?- this is kind of a trick question to me.

The Act II love music of _Tristan_ is perfection in my view- and even a low-voltage performance of a masterpiece like _Troyens_ gets me excited and happy (I'm thinking of the code-blue Dutoit performance). . . but then again, a piece of music I don't find particularly great 'per se' like Cherubini's _Medea_- is one of my all time favorite things to listen to for the absolute power-plant performances Callas that brings to the '58 Rescigno/Dallas, the '53 Bernstein/La Scala, or the '53 Gui/Florence incarnations of the opera.

Sometimes the performing artist is EV-ER-Y-THING.

I can live without Cherubini's (Italian or French versions) of_ Medea_.

I absolutely cannot do without Callas' 'interpretations' of _Medea_.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

14. Best music -- _Don Giovanni_, followed close behind by _Le Nozze di Figaro_ and _Così fan tutte_. With or without words, the pinnacle of opera.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The Ring of the Nibelungen, Meistersinger, Tristan, Parsiful
Beyond magnificent


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Best music? Wouldn't know where to start. There's nothing like hearing the first few chords of a _Tristan_ or _Lohengrin_, especially live in the opera house or concert hall, to send shivers down the spine in the expectation of what's to come. Equally Mozart is always pure joy from start to finish. I'm going to say Puccini, purely because no one else has mentioned him yet and I couldn't have left him out. He was my first experience of opera. Act 3 of _La Boheme _on a rainy afternoon in 1988 - my_ road to Damascus _moment.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Marschallin Blair said:


> The "Best" music ever written in opera?- this is kind of a trick question to me.
> 
> The Act II love music of _Tristan_ is perfection in my view- and even a low-voltage performance of a masterpiece like _Troyens_ gets me excited and happy (I'm thinking of the code-blue Dutoit performance). . . but then again, a piece of music I don't find particularly great 'per se' like Cherubini's _Medea_- is one of my all time favorite things to listen to for the absolute power-plant performances Callas that brings to the '58 Rescigno/Dallas, the '53 Bernstein/La Scala, or the '53 Gui/Florence incarnations of the opera.
> 
> ...




*sigh* this is the kind of thing that makes Callas fans so hard to take. It's like that Chris Rock bit about failing a black history class because he always answered every question with "Martin Luther King". Who freed the slaves? "Martin Luther King". What's the capital of Zaire? "Martin Luther King". What woman refused to get up from her bus seat. "Hm, you sure you mean a woman? I know, Martina Luther King".

With Callas fans, every answer is "Maria Callas". Superhero subject for opera? "Maria Callas". Best opera music? "Anything Maria Callas sang in". Best at any role that Maria Callas ever sang? "Maria Callas". Best singer in any role that Maria Callas DIDN'T sing? "Maria Callas would have been, had she done it."


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Actually, I do not consider myself a Maria Callas groupie or fan like just about everyone else I know who is really into opera. But I do recognize some things about her that fit the name "charismatic" and I do not refer to her singing. I mean her lifestyle and her personality and that appealing girlish way she had about her which showed some insecurity that she normally covered well by acting superior and untouchable in some ways.
She was a consummate musician even more than she was a great singer. Her life, glamorous as it was (and always one that makes a good story) was also lonely, sad, heartbreaking and tragic.
I am convinced that her affair with Onassis shortened her life. His cruelty in dropping her like a hot potato played a big part in draining her of any kind of toughness and strength that kept her going in the past.
So, yes, I think this bigger than life character would make a fine character for an opera within an opera.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

For the record I absolutely adore Cherubini's Medea. Its music is at least forty years ahead of its time and Beethoven himself was an admirer of the piece. It may not be as musically refined as Mozart, but the drama is perfectly communicated by its visceral music (of course, it was soon superseded by the romantic movement). However, it may well be the nirvana of drama in classical opera.

I am a Callas fan, but I hope not _obsessively_ so, but yes, there are some Callas fanatics on TC. You know who you are! :devil:

Best music? I have to distinguish between best music and _favourite_ music. I think for best music from a purely academic point of view would have to be the Ring Cycle, no other work gets anywhere close to how different and creative this work is musically (not even Tristan).

N.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The Conte said:


> Best music? I have to distinguish between best music and _favourite_ music. I think for best music from a purely academic point of view would have to be the Ring Cycle, no other work gets anywhere close to how different and creative this work is musically (not even Tristan).
> 
> N.


Fortunately The Ring Cycle also have music that is worthy of being called favourite music at least according to my taste.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Fortunately The Ring Cycle also have music that is worthy of being called favourite music.


7

Favourite depends on taste, therefore all music is _worthy_ of being called favourite music.

For me The Ring is one of my favourites.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

The Conte said:


> 7
> 
> Favourite depends on taste, therefore all music is _worthy_ of being called favourite music.
> 
> ...


Where'd that 7 spring from?

N.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> *sigh* this is the kind of thing that makes Callas fans so hard to take. It's like that Chris Rock bit about failing a black history class because he always answered every question with "Martin Luther King". Who freed the slaves? "Martin Luther King". What's the capital of Zaire? "Martin Luther King". What woman refused to get up from her bus seat. "Hm, you sure you mean a woman? I know, Martina Luther King".
> 
> With Callas fans, every answer is "Maria Callas". Superhero subject for opera? "Maria Callas". Best opera music? "Anything Maria Callas sang in". Best at any role that Maria Callas ever sang? "Maria Callas". Best singer in any role that Maria Callas DIDN'T sing? "Maria Callas would have been, had she done it."


:lol: 
Somebody actually wrote on the most recommended opera CDs and DVD voting thread that he'd never actually heard the opera being voted on, but that if Callas had recorded it (which she didn't) her version would have been the best! I was chuckling about that for days.

I have no problem with obsessive fans of singers (and am in no position to preach)- provided they live and let live. Self-censoring some of their more redundant or repetitive comments might also help. I am trying to take my own advice on these points.

And should the present situation continue, well- this is not the only music forum on the web, thank goodness!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

15. Which opera role would you most like to play?

Tristan as if you can master that role you can command the highest fees in opera. 

Sadly with the voice I have I'm a more likely candidate for Mime! :lol:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

15. Rigoletto.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

howlingfantods said:


> *sigh* this is the kind of thing that makes Callas fans so hard to take. It's like that Chris Rock bit about failing a black history class because he always answered every question with "Martin Luther King". Who freed the slaves? "Martin Luther King". What's the capital of Zaire? "Martin Luther King". What woman refused to get up from her bus seat. "Hm, you sure you mean a woman? I know, Martina Luther King".
> 
> With Callas fans, every answer is "Maria Callas". Superhero subject for opera? "Maria Callas". Best opera music? "Anything Maria Callas sang in". Best at any role that Maria Callas ever sang? "Maria Callas". Best singer in any role that Maria Callas DIDN'T sing? "Maria Callas would have been, had she done it."


I am probably one of the biggest Callas fans on this site, but you may note that only one of the operas she sang vied for best music in my choices above.

There is no doubt that many of the operas Callas sang were not of the greatest musically. Her genius lay in the way she could bring to life less than great music. In lesser hands Cherubini's "Medea" can come across as rather dull. Callas's performance of the role lifts the music onto an altogether different level, where composer and performer are almost inseparable. It is no doubt that genius that MB was trying to highlight.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

15. Hans Sachs I think. Such a great role with such glorious music to sing.

Or Don Giovanni would be fun


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> **sigh* this is the kind of thing that makes Callas fans so hard to take.* It's like that Chris Rock bit about failing a black history class because he always answered every question with "Martin Luther King". Who freed the slaves? "Martin Luther King". What's the capital of Zaire? "Martin Luther King". What woman refused to get up from her bus seat. "Hm, you sure you mean a woman? I know, Martina Luther King".
> 
> With Callas fans, every answer is "Maria Callas". Superhero subject for opera? "Maria Callas". Best opera music? "Anything Maria Callas sang in". Best at any role that Maria Callas ever sang? "Maria Callas". Best singer in any role that Maria Callas DIDN'T sing? "Maria Callas would have been, had she done it."


Well, frankly, _Schadenfreude _is hard for 'me' to take.

If one person does something exceptionally great, it should be recognized in my book- but never denied or disparaged for the sake of "Hipster" leveling. . .

'Chris Rock'- wasn't he the outstanding anti-luminary who said that "Obama's your daddy?"

Queens, as sovereigns, won't be ruled by anybody.

Perhaps that's where the sting is for some people. _;D_


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Well, frankly, _Schadenfreude _is hard for 'me' to take.
> 
> If one person does something exceptionally great, it should be recognized in my book- but never denied or disparaged for the sake of "Hipster" leveling. . .
> 
> ...


I sometimes feel that comments about Callas on TC can be OTT. It's not when people praise her, but when other singers are denigrated for not being her. It's the idea that Callas' performances of everything she sang were _definitive_. I think this does her a great disservice, as when we are talking about an artist of Callas' caliber the idea that there is only _one way_ to interpret a particular part is a little stupid. Isn't Callas' gift that she made people understand the possibilities that they hadn't before seen in a role? After all, Callas herself was constantly adding depth and nuance to her interpretations. Very few artists reach this level of interpretative, emotional genius, but Callas is not the only one to have done so.

Some posts on here read as though Callas was the greatest person at all and everything (and as somebody has pointed out above, even of operas that she never sang!) It may seem a somewhat odd comparison, but an artist I feel is of Callas' caliber in the ballet world is Uliana Lopatkina, not only does she have a total command of technique, but she inhabits the roles that she plays. Whereas other ballerinas might dance through the steps with ease, she never loses sight of the fact that she is also playing a role and some of the virtuoso movements are danced together with the music in such a way that they become part of the characterisation rather than just a tricky hurdle to make the audience think "WOW, how did she do that?" A spin or a rapid fluttering of her legs in Swan Lake aren't just choreography to be executed with grace and precision, but are made to represent the suffering or the longing of Odette.

It's when posters here suggest things along the lines of: Lopatkina is wonderful, but she's nowhere near as good as Callas would have been had she been a ballerina! that fandom becomes ridiculous fanatacism.

N.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I am probably one of the biggest Callas fans on this site, but you may note that only one of the operas she sang vied for best music in my choices above.
> 
> There is no doubt that many of the operas Callas sang were not of the greatest musically. Her genius lay in the way she could bring to life less than great music. In lesser hands Cherubini's "Medea" can come across as rather dull. Callas's performance of the role lifts the music onto an altogether different level, where composer and performer are almost inseparable. It is no doubt that genius that MB was trying to highlight.


I got nothing against your posts GregMitchell. Nothing wrong with fans fanning--I know I do the same with Wagner. It's more the non-sequitur hijacking of totally unrelated topics with Callas gushing that I complain about. Also, unlike many others, your commentary is admirably focused on musicianship and performance.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

15. Role I would like to play -- Eugene Onegin.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I sometimes feel that comments about Callas on TC can be OTT. It's not when people praise her, but when other singers are denigrated for not being her. It's the idea that Callas' performances of everything she sang were _definitive_. I think this does her a great disservice, as when we are talking about an artist of Callas' caliber the idea that there is only _one way_ to interpret a particular part is a little stupid. Isn't Callas' gift that she made people understand the possibilities that they hadn't before seen in a role? After all, Callas herself was constantly adding depth and nuance to her interpretations. Very few artists reach this level of interpretative, emotional genius, but Callas is not the only one to have done so.
> 
> Some posts on here read as though Callas was the greatest person at all and everything (and as somebody has pointed out above, even of operas that she never sang!) It may seem a somewhat odd comparison, but an artist I feel is of Callas' caliber in the ballet world is Uliana Lopatkina, not only does she have a total command of technique, but she inhabits the roles that she plays. Whereas other ballerinas might dance through the steps with ease, she never loses sight of the fact that she is also playing a role and some of the virtuoso movements are danced together with the music in such a way that they become part of the characterisation rather than just a tricky hurdle to make the audience think "WOW, how did she do that?" A spin or a rapid fluttering of her legs in Swan Lake aren't just choreography to be executed with grace and precision, but are made to represent the suffering or the longing of Odette.
> 
> ...


What singers are 'denigrated' by Callas fans?

Who says that every performance of Callas is 'definitive'?

- Because before I start 'answering' questions, there needs to be no 'begging' of questions.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Duplicate post deleted: TC script-running problem.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

16. Best magical/supernatural moment.

The Queen of the Night's appearance and two arias in Zauberflote.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Callas = opera's Jesus. You're never going to get certain Jesus freaks to think critically about their religion so it's best for non-Jesusy people to not even try. 

Like when you visit the Bible Belt, when all they do is talk about Jesus at the dinner table, you just smile and nod politely... and when they hijack every conversation referring it back to Jesus, it's up to you to decide whether or not to continue to attempt conversation with them (or start conversation threads on a forum, etc)


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Callas = opera's Jesus. You're never going to get certain Jesus freaks to think critically about their religion so it's best for non-Jesusy people to not even try.
> 
> Like when you visit the Bible Belt, when all they do is talk about Jesus at the dinner table, you just smile and nod politely...


What critical arguments do you think that the doctrinaire anti-Callas clique 'has'?- speaking of fundamentalist mindsets?

Last time I checked, assertions weren't arguments and emotions weren't tools of cognition.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Callas is just alright with me... Callas is just alright!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Callas is just alright with me... Callas is just alright!


. . . and by what standard?- solipsismal whim or informed musical criticism?


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Callas is just alright with me... Callas is just alright!


Any expressions of enthusiasm for a favourite singer are alright with me. Constant flaming by fans of a particular singer of everyone who doesn't share their exact sentiments about that singer, is not alright with me.

It's getting to the point now that if they don't leave, everybody else will.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Any expressions of enthusiasm for a favourite singer are alright with me. Constant flaming by fans of a particular singer of everyone who doesn't share their exact sentiments about that singer, is not alright with me.
> 
> It's getting to the point now that if they don't leave, everybody else will.


Didn't you say something like this before- when Woodduck wouldn't rubber-stamp your views?

Since when is asking for someone's basis for judgement or belief ""flaming""?

Have you ever undergone an oral defense of a doctoral dissertation?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

This post is deleted


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

graziesignore said:


> Callas = opera's Jesus. You're never going to get certain Jesus freaks to think critically about their religion so it's best for non-Jesusy people to not even try.
> 
> Like when you visit the Bible Belt, when all they do is talk about Jesus at the dinner table, you just smile and nod politely... and when they hijack every conversation referring it back to Jesus, it's up to you to decide whether or not to continue to attempt conversation with them (or start conversation threads on a forum, etc)


I must confess I find your above remarks somewhat tasteless but can I remind you that this is the thread to the 30-day opera challenge not a discussion of the merits or otherwise of Callas and her followers. Perhaps it would be better discussed under one of the Callas threads.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Didn't you say something like this before- when Woodduck wouldn't rubber-stamp your views?
> 
> Since when is asking for someone's basis for judgement or belief ""flaming""?
> 
> Have you ever undergone an oral defense of a doctoral dissertation?


Why do you need a doctorate to have an opinion on a music website? And why are you trying to drag other people into this?


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Let's get back on topic, please.

*16. Best magical/supernatural moment.*

The second half of Antonia act from Les Contes d'Hoffmann with Miracle appearing/disappering and finally invoking the vision of Antonia's mother. When staged right, this is just a hair-rising scene!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seems like I might have started a hornet's nest with question # 13 by suggesting Maria Callas as a superhero subject for an opera. Funny because she isn't even my idea of a superhero but she certainly has led an interesting and colorful enough life that would make for a good opera. 
Instead, it seems to be bringing out some rather unpleasant and prejudiced thinking and attacks.
By now we should be on #16 instead of languishing on #13.
Is this "30 day Opera Challenge" now stopped dead in its tracks by a bunch of grown-up children?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks Azol for trying to get us back on track.

My choice for #16: _Suor Angelica_.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

Azol said:


> Let's get back on topic, please.
> 
> *16. Best magical/supernatural moment.*
> 
> The second half of Antonia act from Les Contes d'Hoffmann with Miracle appearing/disappering and finally invoking the vision of Antonia's mother. When staged right, this is just a hair-rising scene!


Great one!

For me, I almost went with the obvious choice -- the statue of the Commendatore dragging Don Giovanni down to hell. A superbly dramatic moment to be sure. However I'm going to say the Wolf's Glen scene from Der Freischutz for its wonderful evocation of the supernatural.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

The things that pop into my head first are when Wotan summons Loge to create a magical fire ring around Brunnhilde at the end of Walkure, the entrance of the Gods into Walhall across the rainbow bridge at the end of Rheingold, and the Transformation scenes in the outer acts of Parsifal, when the forest transforms to the temple, as time becomes space. 

That last one might not count as supernatural depending on whether your interpretation of the transformation is primarily a literal one or a metaphorical psychological one though. I guess I'll go with the magic fire music, the most ostentatiously magical of these scenes, although the grandeur of the entrance of the Gods and the beauty of the Transformation scenes are hard to pass up.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> The things that pop into my head first are when Wotan summons Loge to create a magical fire ring around Brunnhilde at the end of Walkure, the entrance of the Gods into Walhall across the rainbow bridge at the end of Rheingold, and the Transformation scenes in the outer acts of Parsifal, when the forest transforms to the temple, as time becomes space.
> 
> That last one might not count as supernatural depending on whether your interpretation of the transformation is primarily a literal one or a metaphorical psychological one though. I guess I'll go with the magic fire music, the most ostentatiously magical of these scenes, although the grandeur of the entrance of the Gods and the beauty of the Transformation scenes are hard to pass up.


To some of us the whole of _Parsifal_ would qualify as the greatest magical moment in opera. But then there's the _Ring_... 

I mean, after all, to the gods fourteen hours is only a moment.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Siegfried and the woodbird.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Faustian said:


> Yeah, that is one of the biggest gripes I had with them -- for the most part they stick to a very safe and same-y repertoire every season, and only put on 4 productions a year. And to my knowledge they've never staged any of the major music dramas by Wagner past Lohengrin. So I was always disappointed about that.


Actually they have ... many years ago they did a Ring cycle over 4 years ... I know because I went to two of them ... Rheingold & Gotterdammerung. My guess is that must have been late 70s?

As to the SD Opera, they almost folded last year, their board intended to shut down the company due to financial projections. There was a major stink about it, many board members quit and some other took it upon themselves to reorganize things. The direct, Ian Campbell left under a cloud and a new director has been brought in. As part of the reorganization, they have also cut back some and are currently focusing on the more popular, i.e. money-spinning works.

Here is a synopsis over 50 years...


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

16. Don Giovanni dines with the Commendatore. 

One of the greatest scenes and some of the greatest music in all of opera.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Balthazar said:


> 16. Don Giovanni dines with the Commendatore.
> 
> One of the greatest scenes and some of the greatest music in all of opera.


Yeah I didn't think of that one myself. It's certainly up there with the greatest of all operatic scenes. And three low voices too! Amazing!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#17. 2 come to mind for different reasons:
1. Carmen/Calaf (she won't knuckle under to that power hungry jerk like the Ice Princess did)
2. (depending upon one's sexual orientation): Posa/Siegfried - the smart, mature and compassionate vs. the handsome, strong and child-like.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

17. Lady Macbeth and Iago. 

Though I shudder to think what the two might get up to if they joined forces...


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> 17. Lady Macbeth and Iago.
> 
> Though I shudder to think what the two might get up to if they joined forces...


That would really be something.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> 17. Lady Macbeth and Iago.
> 
> Though I shudder to think what the two might get up to if they joined forces...


But then again Lady Macbeth couldn't live with what she did. Iago surely could. So when you think about it more perhaps not that great match after all. I think Lady Macbeth is too soft for Iago. I think we would need someone even more ruthless.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Diminuendo said:


> But then again Lady Macbeth couldn't live with what she did. Iago surely could. So when you think about it more perhaps not that great match after all. I think Lady Macbeth is too soft for Iago. I think we would need someone even more ruthless.


Lady Macbeth was drien by ambition, Iago by thwarted ambition.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

18. Best unfinished opera? Turandot.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 18. Best unfinished opera? Turandot.


No doubt about that.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Best unfinished opera? Or at least my favourite...

Boito's Nerone

I regard Turandot as finished, though not by Puccini.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> Best unfinished opera? Or at least my favourite...
> 
> Boito's Nerone
> 
> I regard Turandot as finished, though not by Puccini.


Out of curiosity, do you also regard Mahler's 10th as finished, or Schubert's 8th, or *Lulu*?


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> Out of curiosity, do you also regard Mahler's 10th as finished, or Schubert's 8th, or *Lulu*?


You're really curious? Yes, no, yes.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> You're really curious? Yes, no, yes.


I don't follow your logic then.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#19: Otello-Jonas Kaufmann


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> I don't follow your logic then.


Finished by others. Not finished by others.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

18. Another vote for _Turandot_.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

18. Les contes d'Hoffmann


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> Finished by others. Not finished by others.


They've all been finished by others.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> They've all been finished by others.


Sorry for my ignorance. Where can I find a recording of all 4 movements of Schubert's 8th? I'd love to get the 5th act of Nerone. Can you recommend a recording?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> Oh? I'd love to get the 5th act of Nerone. Where can I find it?


I never mentioned *Nerone*. The works I was asking you about were Mahler's 10th Symphony, Schubert's 8th and Berg's *Lulu*. (Post #266)


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Apologies, you didn't mention Nerone, but Schubert's 8th?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> Apologies, you didn't mention Nerone, but Schubert's 8th?


Completed by Brian Newbould, and recorded by Sir Charles Mackerras and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe by others too.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Completed by Brian Newbould, and recorded by Sir Charles Mackerras and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe by others too.


I've heard the completion. Better as Schubert left it!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> Completed by Brian Newbould, and recorded by Sir Charles Mackerras and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe by others too.


How interesting. Thanks for the info. I may just have to track it down.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with the position that any unfinished opus "completed" by others is therefore no longer unfinished, and voting for Turandot as well.

Has anyone heard the Hao Weiya version of the ending? It's not exactly good but it might be less bad than the Berio or the Alfano.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> Has anyone heard the Hao Weiya version of the ending? It's not exactly good but it might be less bad than the Berio or the Alfano.


Yes:






Turandot is the best unfinished opera.
I prefer the Alfano ending.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> How interesting. Thanks for the info. I may just have to track it down.












The first movement of the 5th alone is worth the price of the disc.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> The first movement of the 5th alone is worth the price of the disc.


I couldn't agree more.

Its just pure joy and charm and happiness to me- I feel benevolent, carefree, and playful when I hear this performance. I just want to grab some friends out of the office, break all of the rules, and go on a road trip up the coast and go shopping when I hear it. Its not like you 'damn' the consequences- its like they don't even exist. How could they?- there's spring sunshine and light all around you.

'Mackerras' the Magician'!- nobody does it better for my money. The Karajan (and I still love it) sounds positively leaden and pedestrian compared to Mackerras' subtle, vivacious touch. Mackerras just gives it such effortless 'polish.'

I thank Mahlerian for posting the Mackerras performance a long time ago.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> How interesting. Thanks for the info. I may just have to track it down.


Its an aesthetic moral imperative, Don!- get it! _;D_


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I thank Mahlerian for posting the Mackerras performance a long time ago.


Regardless of our differences, you're welcome. :tiphat:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> Regardless of our differences, you're welcome. :tiphat:












<Curtsey.>

_;DD_


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

GregMitchell said:


> The first movement of the 5th alone is worth the price of the disc.


Thanks. On order. But Nerone is still my favourite unfinished opera. ;-)


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

19. Jonas Kaufmann singing Otello 

I'm with nina foresti on this.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

Diminuendo said:


> But then again Lady Macbeth couldn't live with what she did. Iago surely could. So when you think about it more perhaps not that great match after all. I think Lady Macbeth is too soft for Iago. I think we would need someone even more ruthless.


Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk?


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

19: Cecilia Bartoli as Sarastro.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

19. Kauffmann as Otello maybe


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> 19. Jonas Kaufmann singing Otello
> 
> I'm with nina foresti on this.


I'll pick Kaufmann too, but for the Siegfried doubleheader. I think he's already scheduled to do an Otello in a couple of years, but I'm not sure if he'll ever decide to do Siegfried.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

howlingfantods said:


> I'll pick Kaufmann too, but for the Siegfried doubleheader. I think he's already scheduled to do an Otello in a couple of years, but I'm not sure if he'll ever decide to do Siegfried.


Thnk his voice is too baritonal for Siegfried. The heavy declaratory singing might wreck his voice.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#20: Best use of opera in pop culture: I would have to say the very over-used Nessun dorma from _Turandot_ . There's not a teenager in a carload who doesn't recognize that melody thanks, I guess, to Andrea Bocelli.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

#20: Best use of opera in pop culture

It's hard to get past Ride of the Valkyries in Apocalypse Now.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

20. I will go with _Moonstruck_ which did a wonderful job of de-elitifying opera and used the score of _La Bohème_ to good effect throughout. It's a great movie too!

















Somewhat unrelated, I love that, when I was last resident in NY, at the beginning of the Met's free summer series of opera screenings in Lincoln Plaza they showed _Moonstruck_ on the first night. A light-hearted reminder that the opera world need not take itself so seriously.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

I wrote a post in the "operas in movies" thread about my favorite pop cultural use of opera: all the Wagner in John Boorman's Excalibur. He uses Siegfried's funeral music as a motif for both Arthur and Excalibur, the Prelude for Tristan & Isolde as the motif for Guinevere and Lancelot's affair, the Act 1 Prelude from Parsifal for Perceval's search for the Holy Grail. 

Boorman didn't just use the music after the fact as just incidental music, it's more like he wanted to make a movie with as much Wagnerian themes as possible and structured the narrative to fit the music.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

20. Looney Tunes. What's Opera Doc?; The Rabbit of Seville...


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## OperaChic (Aug 26, 2015)

Faustian said:


> 20. Looney Tunes. What's Opera Doc?; The Rabbit of Seville...


Continuing the animation trend, I would vote for Disney's Fantasia. The original. Not the awful sequel.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> #20: Best use of opera in pop culture: I would have to say the very over-used Nessun dorma from _Turandot_ . There's not a teenager in a carload who doesn't recognize that melody thanks, I guess, to Andrea Bocelli.


Bocelli! What happened to the three tenors and the 1990 World Cup?


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

OperaChic said:


> Continuing the animation trend, I would vote for Disney's Fantasia. The original. Not the awful sequel.


I love Fantasia as well, but to my knowledge it doesn't contain any opera....


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Faustian said:


> I love Fantasia as well, but to my knowledge it doesn't contain any opera....


Ponchielli's _Dance of the Hours _(dancing hippos and alligators, etc.) is from the opera _La Gioconda_.

"Hello muddah, hello faddah..."


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The use of the music in the beginning of La Traviata in a commercial for dishwasher powder.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Marx a Brothers - A Night at the Opera

Il Trovatore was the opera.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

The intermezzo from Cav was used for a Kleenex advert (the one where granny is cutting up the onions) which seemed to be on all the time in the 90s.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#21: Where else on earth could you ever find a newly married groom hear the sound of a horn blowing and announce to his lovely bride that, "Sorry Elvira dear, I cannot consummate our marriage this evening, because I have to blow my brains out instead due to a previous honor bound promise." (_Ernani_)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

21. Dumbest opera character.

Siegfried is an absolute bonehead but probably the honour goes to Otello for believing Iago. It was Orson Wells who described him and Lear as ''noble simpletons'!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DavidA said:


> *21. * Dumbest opera character.
> 
> Siegfried is an absolute bonehead but probably the honour goes to Otello for believing Iago. It was Orson Wells who described him and Lear as ''noble simpletons'!


Siegfried can think on his feet and is a child of the wild. He survives by his wits. If he didn't, 'nature-red-in-tooth-and-claw' would eliminate him- so I wouldn't call him an absolute bonehead by a longshot. Most moderns by way of comparison can barely tie their shoes, and consequently would be what are known as 'prey' in Siegfried ambit.

No, I'm afraid I'd reserve the laurels of 'Dumbest Opera Character' for Schoenberg's Moses- the 'ideal incarnation' and 'national spiritual ruler' who can barely think or even talk about his uncompromising monotheistic creed.

'Moses Gump' gets my vote.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

21. Dumbest opera character. I was going to say Don Pasquale but he is more gullible than stupid.

I'll go with the villagers in _La Sonnambula_ who are awestruck at the very concept of sleepwalking. But if they weren't so dumb, we would miss out on some good music.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

22. Some of Wagner's definitely. The Ride of the Valkyries or the Immolation in Gotterdamerung if you want what Wagner actually specified.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

22. Opera with the hardest stage effect to bring off successfully. (Please specify the stage effect.)

The almost complete lack of horses in Ring Cycle productions. It's as if they're scared to attempt it.

Yet when the (animatronic) horse appears in Seigfried's Rhine Journey in Lepage's production it provided the most beautiful scene.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

22. Die Frau ohne Schatten is a complete nightmare for lighting designers who have to ensure the Empress never casts a shadow until the last scene. I've had directors, designers and lighting designers tell me they dread it like no other opera!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#22. The most failed(and grossly expensive) stage effect was that abominable "Gelb Machine" in the Ring last season. Scary for singers to manipulate, breaking down on stage, noisy, and a downright stupid use of money. For shame!

(Annoying too is the 3rd act of the Zeffirelli production _La Boheme_ at the Met where that wonderful and magical effect of snow falling never seems to get legs anymore. Guess they are too lazy to fix the machine (or else they are running out of Ivory Snow flakes.)


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> #22. The most failed(and grossly expensive) stage effect was that abominable "Gelb Machine" in *the Ring last season*. Scary for singers to manipulate, breaking down on stage, noisy, and a downright stupid use of money. For shame!
> 
> (Annoying too is the 3rd act of the Zeffirelli production _La Boheme_ at the Met where that wonderful and magical effect of snow falling never seems to get legs anymore. Guess they are too lazy to fix the machine (or else they are running out of Ivory Snow flakes.)


That was last season?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ma7730 said:


> That was last season?


Whateverrrr.
(the years do fly by when you reach a certain age!)


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Whateverrrr.
> (the years do fly by when you reach a certain age!)




Yeah, that was expensive, and I watched the met's documentary on it, and apparently it could be very dangerous.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Italo Montemezzi´s opera La Nave have an effect where a ship is sailing out to sea. I would say that is one of the most difficult stage effects or at least most expensive ones.

The lighting for Die Fraue Ohne Schatte sounds horrible. I would not want to work with that.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

ma7730 said:


> Yeah, that was expensive, and I watched the met's documentary on it, and apparently it could be very dangerous.


I saw it too; unfortunately before watching the opera DVDs. Not advised! Seeing how hard the multitude of stagehands were working to support the supposed electronically controlled machine takes all the mystique from the production.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

22. The Ring -- Rainbow bridge.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> #22. The most failed(and grossly expensive) stage effect was that abominable "Gelb Machine" in the Ring last season. Scary for singers to manipulate, breaking down on stage, noisy, and a downright stupid use of money. For shame!


I didn't see it live, so I can't comment on the noise or to it breaking down. But when it worked properly, in my opinion the results were stunning. I've never seen sequences like Wotan and Loge's descent into Nibelheim, the ascent of the gods to Valhalla on the rainbow bridge, or Siegfried's Rhine journey look so good.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#23 Carmen (amen!)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

23. Pretty impossible to say as there are so many. I would say that for actual films of operas Ponnelle's are by far the best and the best of those Cenerentola.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

#23 - Giulio Cesare

I think attractive productions of Baroque Opera have contributed a lot to introduce 17th and 18th century opera to a growing number of fans, during the last 10-15 years.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 23. Pretty impossible to say as there are so many. I would say that for actual films of operas Ponnelle's are by far the best and the best of those Cenerentola.


La Cenerentola is great.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Faustian said:


> I didn't see it live, so I can't comment on the noise or to it breaking down. But when it worked properly, in my opinion the results were stunning. I've never seen sequences like Wotan and Loge's descent into Nibelheim, the ascent of the gods to Valhalla on the rainbow bridge, or Siegfried's Rhine journey look so good.


Yeah, count me on the "pro" column too, sort of. I liked a lot of the effects and staging, but thought they sometimes used it badly--for instance the see saw ride of the vakyries. The descent into nibelheim, rainbow bridge, and Gunther washing his hands and polluting the water with blood were all pretty stunning. I liked the combination of projection and the planks to create settings like the woods and the gibich's house.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

23. _La Cenerentola_ is very well represented on DVD, as mentioned above.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> 23. _La Cenerentola_ is very well represented on DVD, as mentioned above.


_Both _of them, right?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#24: I have yet to see anything more dramatic, touching, and powerful than the sound of silence directly after the last lone note in _Dialogues des Carmelites _until the audience finally succumbs to effusive applause.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

no 24

At the Proms in 2013 Barenboim and the Dresden Staatskapelle gave us the Ring in the hottest week London has seen in years. On top of that the performance was incendiary.

The maestro teased out the last sounds by raising his left hand and held it there to complete silence for an appropriate age whilst we mediated on what we'd been though. Only when his hand dropped did the audience explode.

Well most meditated and relived the past 4 days and some reached immediately for their phones. 






An audio version was on iplayer for a month or so. I timed the silence at 15 seconds. In the Albert Hall that short period of my life was unbelievably intense, like nothing I've ever been a part of. Barenboim interrupted 45 minutes of applause to make a speech thanking US for the depth of our listening adding to the performance.

Can only hope that one day I'll be at another event that good.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

25: I must say Italian opera.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

25 I like all kinds of good opera.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sloe said:


> 25: I must say Italian opera.


Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! (15 characters required-duh!)


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! (15 characters required-duh!)


I agree, as there is simply more of it than any other language. All the great composers (excepting Wagner, of course) wrote operas in Italian!


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

ma7730 said:


> I agree, as there is simply more of it than any other language. All the great composers (excepting Wagner, of course) wrote operas in Italian!


Tchaikovsky? Mussorgsky? Rimsky-Korsakov? Britten? Strauss? None of them great?


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

25. Italian, followed by French.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

26 Best curse - Monterone's curse in Act 1 of Rigoletto. David Ward on the Solti version is particularly effective.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

26 - the curse motif from Dinorah comes to mind because the music is so spine-chilling


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

In Rigoletto it’s fundamental to the piece, originally Piave and Verdi had titled the opera La maledizione (The Curse). 

It’s uttered by Monterone on both The Count and Rigoletto and it kick starts the action. The former laughs it off and the latter is terrified. The Duke first see’s Gilda in Church, but in Verdi’s eyes that can’t save her from the pagan curse. If ‘Hollywood’ told the tale the licentious man would have got his comeuppance and the ‘single parent’ would find redemption. Verdi knew it isn’t always like that…


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#27: Current event made into an opera: O J Simpson


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

26. In _Cavalleria rusticana_, Santuzza curses Turiddu's Easter: "_A te la mala Pasqua, spergiuro!_"


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Alberich's curse on the ring brings the whole world crashing down. Top that.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Alberich's curse on the ring brings the whole world crashing down. Top that.


I was thinking of the curse in Rigoletto but this win.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Alberich's curse on the ring brings the whole world crashing down. Top that.


I'm a lunatic Wagner fan but my favorite opera curse is still Rigoletto. I mean, the last two words of the opera are literally Rigoletto screaming "la maledizione" over his daughter's corpse. That's some good cursin' by that Monterone fella.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

I can really only think of Rigoletto... Maybe some are escaping me now.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

Apart from Santuzza and Monterone, the only other one that comes to mind is Leonora's father cursing her at the end of the first scene of _La Forza del Destino_. As in Rigoletto it appears to have the intended effect.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

Braddan said:


> Apart from Santuzza and Monterone, the only other one that comes to mind is Leonora's father cursing her at the end of the first scene of _La Forza del Destino_. As in Rigoletto it appears to have the intended effect.


Oh right, I forgot about that one.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

ma7730 said:


> Oh right, I forgot about that one.


It took me a while. I could hear another bass uttering a curse in my head but had to scan my recordings till it came to me.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

So besides the O J Simpson suggestion for #27, are there any other suggestions or are we now on to #28?
(it's confusing)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

28. Funniest moment - very funny when Dandini tells Cenerentola's step father he is not the prince. If properly done that is.

of course there was the moment when the two bearers drop the corpse of Siegfried in Gotterdamerung, a moment which left the audience in stitches. But that unintentional humour is always funnier!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

28. Funniest moment

If a good proportion of the audience aren't laughing when *Falstaff* is complaining in the laundry basket the production has gone badly wrong.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Funniest moments:
1. When mechanics broke down and Slezak walked to the proscenium in_ Lohengrin_, looked at his watch and exclaimed to the audience, "what time is the next swan coming by?"
2. The time they replaced a mattress with a trampoline to make the fall easier when she jumps in _Tosca_ only to have the soprano jump as she yells, "Oh Scarpia, avanti a dio" and bounce right back up into view of the audience once again.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

28. Funniest moment

In Glyndebourne's production of Le Comte Ory when one of the disguised knights jumps out of the window causing the big SPLASH! makes me laugh each time I see it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There was the time during the finale of Tosca when some hastily acquired extras playing the soldiers were just told to ''riun after her'. Hence the sight of Tosca leaping from the back of the stage and three soldiers following her over!


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

DavidA said:


> There was the time during the finale of Tosca when some hastily acquired extras playing the soldiers were just told to ''riun after her'. Hence the sight of Tosca leaping from the back of the stage and three soldiers following her over!


I remember reading about this years ago. Such a funny story. Didn't they also point their guns at Tosca and fire while Mario still dropped dead on the opposite side of the stage? They had assumed it was her they had to shoot because_ the soprano always dies..._


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

DavidA said:


> There was the time during the finale of Tosca when some hastily acquired extras playing the soldiers were just told to ''riun after her'. Hence the sight of Tosca leaping from the back of the stage and three soldiers following her over!


I believe the instruction given to the 'soldiers' was to "exit with the principals". The story comes from Hugh Vickers' book Great Opera Disasters and happened in a 1961 San Francisco Opera production and yes the firing squad aimed at Tosca but Cavaradossi falls dead.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#29: Advice to Vittorio Grigolo: You have a tendency to mimic Rolando's antics onstage. Watch that throat and don't fall into the "Villazon trap".


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

#29: Advice to many opera singers, I'm not going to name names. Perhaps the same as given to Deborah Voight some time ago? Get yourself in shape! Look after your health.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

29. To Ben Heppner. You've a great voice Ben but don't,ay Florestan on stage. No-one will ever believe you've been starving!


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

29. To many modern stage producers/directors. Read that [email protected]#$in' libretto sometimes, will you? 

P.S. The more I watch new opera productions, the more I become a fan of concert performances.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Azol said:


> 29. To many contemporary stage producers/directors. Read that [email protected]#$in' libretto sometimes, will you?
> 
> P.S. The more I watch new opera productions, the more I become a fan of concert performances.


This is the advice modern opera producers most need!


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 29. To Ben Heppner. You've a great voice Ben but don't,ay Florestan on stage. No-one will ever believe you've been starving!


Cruel, but I can't say I disagree.



Azol said:


> 29. To many modern stage producers/directors. Read that [email protected]#$in' libretto sometimes, will you?
> 
> P.S. The more I watch new opera productions, the more I become a fan of concert performances.


Also very true!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

#30. Most disappointing opera ending: _Don Carlo_


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

nina foresti said:


> #30. Most disappointing opera ending: Don Carlo


Great opera. Disappointing anticlimactic ending.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

I believe you are aware there was an alternative ending: Carlo stabs himself, which makes more sense than traditional Finale. Actually, I even saw this alternative ending performed live in an opera house. And it does not disappoint (well, obviously, you want to enjoy a perfect bloody evening since you went to watch a Verdi opera!)

Coincidentally, we are voting (in the other thread) for the best recording of the second opera from Il Trittico, so I would say that Il Tabarro has disappointing ending since it does not resolve the main conflict between Michele and his wife.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Azol: For me, even the alternate ending of _Don Carlo_ leaves a lot to be desired.
_Turandot _is another. It seems too cornball.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Azol said:


> I believe you are aware there was an alternative ending: Carlo stabs himself, which makes more sense than traditional Finale. Actually, I even saw this alternative ending performed live in an opera house. And it does not disappoint (well, obviously, you want to enjoy a perfect bloody evening since you went to watch a Verdi opera!)
> 
> Coincidentally, we are voting (in the other thread) for the best recording of the second opera from Il Trittico, so I would say that Il Tabarro has disappointing ending since it does not resolve the main conflict between Michele and his wife.


I have always equated _Il Tabarro_ with _The Postman Always Rings Twice_.
(what OTHER thread??)


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

*sigh* right thread this time.

Turandot. It's really a disappointment that Puccini couldn't finish the opera--as it is, with the crappy ending that I inevitably skip when I'm listening to a recording, I still consider this his masterpiece.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

howlingfantods said:


> *sigh* right thread this time.
> 
> Turandot. It's really a disappointment that Puccini couldn't finish the opera--as it is, with the crappy ending that I inevitably skip when I'm listening to a recording, I still consider this his masterpiece.


That's of course what Toscanini did when he gave the premiere. Stopped when Puccini did.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Aida locked up in a vault boring ending.
It could have had a happy ending or at least something more violent.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

howlingfantods said:


> Turandot. It's really a disappointment that Puccini couldn't finish the opera--as it is, with the crappy ending that I inevitably skip when I'm listening to a recording, I still consider this his masterpiece.


Some productions I've seen make me feel I'm watching a Disney movie at the end. I did see it in Barcelona a few years ago with Maria Guleghina. At the end she stepped away from the crowd and in the final seconds stabbed herself. An interesting alternative..


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

The first time I saw listened to *Don Carlo *I was very disappointed with the ending. After all that high drama and great music I felt it was a little too _deus ex machina _for me.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sloe said:


> Aida locked up in a vault boring ending.
> It could have had a happy ending or at least something more violent.


"...or at least something more violent"

What could be more violent than being suffocated to death slowly? And it doesn't even require guns or knives. Just a plain ol' torture chamber. (pretty violent to me)


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> "...or at least something more violent"
> 
> What could be more violent than being suffocated to death slowly? And it doesn't even require guns or knives. Just a plain ol' torture chamber. (pretty violent to me)


Something with knives/spears/swords/arrows.
I would say it is as violent as Manon Lescaut or La Traviata.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Braddan said:


> Some productions I've seen make me feel I'm watching a Disney movie at the end. I did see it in Barcelona a few years ago with Maria Guleghina. At the end she stepped away from the crowd and in the final seconds stabbed herself. An interesting alternative..


It's not really the narrative that bothers me (although it's certainly underwritten and unconvincing), it's the bombastic and emotionally inconsistent music used for the last scene. Just awful stuff, even the reused existing musical material is made coarser and more banal in the finale, so the finale not only lacks invention but degrades the invention that had already been presented. Terrible.


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## Braddan (Aug 23, 2015)

howlingfantods said:


> It's not really the narrative that bothers me (although it's certainly underwritten and unconvincing), it's the bombastic and emotionally inconsistent music used for the last scene. Just awful stuff, even the reused existing musical material is made coarser and more banal in the finale, so the finale not only lacks invention but degrades the invention that had already been presented. Terrible.


Yes I get you. I should have clarified that that I don't like what I am hearing as well as seeing. The overblown repetition of the early Act 3 music is like the rousing "showstopper" repeat at the end of a musical.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Braddan said:


> The first time I saw listened to *Don Carlo *I was very disappointed with the ending. After all that high drama and great music I felt it was a little too _deus ex machina _for me.


It is just enough deus ex machina. It is my favourite ending of a Verdi opera.


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## ma7730 (Jun 8, 2015)

Sloe said:


> It is just enough deus ex machina. It is my favourite ending of a Verdi opera.


I wouldn't say it's my absolute favorite, but I have no complaints about it.

I agree about Turandot. And happy endings are so boring!


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