# The Organ



## WalterJ (Dec 24, 2007)

I have to admit something here, for close to 50 years I have never been all that impressed by the Organ. I grew up with an Organ in my house and my father actually played it rather well but I never really much liked listening to it. Every time I heard it being played on a record, cassette, CD or TV I would change to the next song or another channel. 

However today I was in heavy traffic and popped a Bach CD in that I picked up at a garage sale for about 50 cents and the very first piece was Toccata & Fugue in D Minor and the traffic was to heavy and to fast for me to deal with changing it so I listened to the entire piece and I have to say I was rather impressed and I liked it a lot. It made me reconsider all those other pieces I ignored just because they were done on an Organ.

That or it is just another sign that I am getting old


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi WalterJ,

Well, for almost 50 years I have been playing the organ professionally. It is the only instrument known that offers so wide a variance in tonal capability that it has oft been referred to as the King of Instruments. While no wind driven pipe can ever replicate the sounds of an orchestra or human voice, you must admit that it is unique all of its own accord. 

Taking a liking to classical organ music is not a sign of age ... maybe in your earlier years you were not ready to accept the sounds of the organ ... that's a great first exposure though, the Bach T & F in D Minor ... Certainly one of Bach's finest organ pieces, but there are more ... lots more, and lots just as good as ol' JS Bach. 

Two of my most favorite major pieces to play is the Mendelssohn Sonata I, and Cesar Franck's Chorale No 3 in A Minor ... I have performed both of these in concerts that I do every year. 

Lots of other composers to explore too: Vierne, Buxtehude, Pachelbel, and on the 'modern side' Karg-Elert, Reger, and Hindemith. 

I wish you happy listening in organ music repertoire. I can attest that playing the music is just as fun, if not more so, than listening to it.


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

I like the organ when it's used properly. For me, organs always sound "big" and can weigh down otherwise light pieces; however, no other instrument is as forceful. I couldn't imagine the Bach organ works, Mahler's 8th, or the Saint-Saens 3rd being played with anything else.

As a rock, country, and R&B pianist/keyboardist, I'm more used to the sound (and feel) of synthesized organs- jazz organs, rock organs, etc. Of course, synthesizers don't have multiple manuals and a pedalboard, so the playing experience is completely different.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Talk to me about reverb. One odd thing about pipe organs that sets them apart from other instruments is that each one is unique, *and* each place they are located is unique. I consider myself an organ fan and hope to be able to play one someday, but places with a lot of reverb tend to throw me off. The sound all mushes together and it's hard for me to make out details, somewhat like if someone played an entire piano sonata with the pedal engaged.

This has to be something composers of organ music take into account, right? But whose to say the reverb where you're composing is the same as where someone might perform it? How do you grow to like reverb-heavy performances?


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi nefigah,

In a building with lots of natural reverberation, the organist must exercise greater articulation control, and in some cases, actually slow the piece down so that the sound is not all garbled together. In my church position, the acoustical properties of the building are absolutely zilch ... there is more echo in a shower stall than what we have in my church. That requires a very precise manner as every single note (including the wrong ones) are going to be heard individually. 

I recently played an organ concert in a church with 3.5 seconds of natural reverberation. Needless to say, it was quite the adjustment for me as I normally play in a building where the sound stops before I let my hands off the keyboard! In the concert venue, I found that, for the faster tempos, I had to articulate to the point of almost completely detached notes, even where legato was marked. For the more quieter and slower tempo pieces, I could play like I normally do. 

The sound of an organ, at least to my ears, is much "warmer" in a reverberant room. 

If you are in the US, you might check out the Pipe Organ Encounter that is sponsored every year by the A.G.O. (American Guild of Organists). Those give new students a first hand look inside and out of the pipe organ and also have some time devoted to letting people play a pipe organ for the first time. It's quite an experience to reside at the console of the King of Instruments. I love it so much that I've been doing just that for the past 48 years.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

I have a love-hate relationship with the organ, I do love the different sounds that different organs have, one of our music group is an organ fanatic and can just about tell what make is being played, I do enjoy the small chamber organs, The big brutes must be a bitch to play, what with the delay and your feet to worry about as well. Do you have to be a bit of a nut case to want to play one??


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi Andante, 

Actually, for my, the bigger the brute, the easier it is to play. The tonal selections (different kinds of sounds) are far greater than the smaller organs. In smaller organs, like mine at the church, when the composer suggests an Oboe for the solo stop, I have to improvise as I don't have that particular stop. On the larger "brutes" they have most every stop known to man.

Not all rooms where the larger organs reside have good acoustics. Riverside church in NYC has a huge monster 5 manual pipe organ - the building used to be fairly dead acoustically. They have, in recent years, sealed the inner surfaces so they no longer soak up the sound, which has greatly improved the acoustics there. 

As to being a nut case ... I can only agree with you. I'm a true pipe organ nut case.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

Just a thought, how do you tune an organ, ?? if playing with an orch or even a small ens I assume they tune to the Organ so what pitch is it 440?


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Each flue (non reed) pipe has a sleeve that slides along the outside - moving this slider upwards extends the pipe length and lowers the tone - moving in the opposite direction raises the tone. Remember the old slide whistles that kids had? Same basic idea. 

Reed pipes have an internal tuning shaft in the base of the pipe, and a sardine can type of opening at the top for regulating the tone and/or volume (loudness) of the pipe. 

Most organs are tuned to A-440 ... rather the standard amongst tuners. After our church organ has been tuned, I call in the piano tuners and they tune to the organ as they are often used together.


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## WalterJ (Dec 24, 2007)

Thank you all so much for the response to my post, I have learned a lot about organs from this, makes me think I should sit down and give it a try someday but I honestly do not know how one gets his/her hands and feet to work together to make the thing work but I am very impressed by those that do. And I never even thought about reverb and the room as it applies to an organ before, but it does make a lot of sense. 

I also remembered, as I read your responses, that I did once hear a rather large organ played at Hammond Castle in Gloucester, MA many years ago, although I did not appreciate it as much as I would today.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

WalterJ said:


> . . . . . but I honestly do not know how one gets his/her hands and feet to work together to make the thing work but I am very impressed by those that do.


Practice, practice, practice, and more practice, just like any instrument requires.
There are method books (Gleason, and Stainer) that are of great help to beginning organ students - I still have mine from 1960 and use it to hone up my skills from time to time.

It's best to have a tutor when beginning classical organ ... during the learning process you are totally unaware of the mistakes because you are concentrating so much on just playing the right pedal notes. Eventually, the feet intuitively "know" where each pedal note is. The secret to that is positioning the bench properly and being properly positioned on the bench every single time.

There is a simple analogy to that ... When one is preparing to drive a car ... one has to adjust the seat, the mirrors and the tilt or telescoping steering wheel.

You might try to talk with a local church organist that has access to a pipe organ, and see if they would give you a little introduction to their instrument. Most will do this gladly ... I always do when the situation presents itself.


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## WalterJ (Dec 24, 2007)

Thank You I may do that.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

So how would you say, as a composer of organ music, the "priorities" (for want of a better term) differ from piano music?

From what I have heard of both, it seems in the piano world, there is more of an emphasis on dynamics* and _speed_/energy. Organ music tends to strike me in general as more ponderous. I'm also unfortunately limited in mainly being exposed to Baroque organ music, and so I'm not sure how that may have changed since then. It does sadden me that the organ seems to only enjoy a percentage of the love shown by composers to the piano.

*Speaking of dynamics, though I know they aren't possible in the piano sense on the organ, isn't there a foot pedal that gives some control? And can't you rapidly switch stops with presets? Wouldn't that allow for more contrast in that area? (Is that more common after the Baroque?)


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

The stops (sounds) on the organ offer a wide variety of tonal changes. They range from very soft to very loud.

The pipe organ also has vertical shades that the organist can operate from the console. Opening and closing these shades alters the volume for the listeners. The analogy to the operation of these shades is a window covering (ex. venetian blinds). The sunlight outside stays the same - opening/closing the shades lets more light in or keeps the light out. Same is true in the pipe organ. Inside the box, the sound level remains the same all the time ... by opening the shades, we let more sound out and vice versa.

On some organs there are controls which allow the organist to change stops quickly. These can be changed at will by the organist at any time. They are called "pistons" and there are several types:

General piston: These control all the stops on the organ. Either turning them on or turning them off.
Divisional piston: These control only the manual to which they are assigned.
Reversible piston: These control one item only, usually a coupler. Couplers are used when the organist wants to combine all the stops (sounds) onto one keyboard instead of trying to play three manuals at the same time. Also makes for a fuller sound when desired.
If you ever have the opportunity to attend an organ concert, try to find a position where you can observe the organist playing and operating all of its various controls. For the casual observer it's artistry in motion ... for the organist it's standard operating procedure. Not all organ have these modern conveniences - mine at the church has a very limited number of pistons (4) so most of the time I have to add or subtract stops by hand most of the time.


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## ellll (Dec 15, 2009)

Hello to Krumhorn, and others as well, ...!!

See my other under the thread on Hammond, if you don't mind.....maybe...? 

I, also, have spent more than half a century on the organ, and less on the piano... but I was a choral director, so I give that as my profession before retirement, even though I played for church services and recitals all my life ...

I just wanted to bring to this thread, the thought of Vierne, Widor, and a number of others writing the great Organ Symphony's for the Cavaille-Coll instruments, in particular St. Sulpice. It is impossible for me to find, even in such as Mozart, or Vaughn-Williams, or Nathaniel Dett, in my own suggested first love, wondrous choral music, the equal of such total majesty and wonder...

For me, it is the place for my hidden heart...

My Regards, John (ellll)


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## kmisho (Oct 22, 2009)

If you can find them, check out the way Jean Guillou or Guy Bovet play Bach. Great humor and panache and about 1000 miles of virtuoso technique.


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## Sebastien Melmoth (Apr 14, 2010)

Guillou plays some fantastic Franck on the Van den Heuvel of St. Eustache, although Joris Verdin's work on the Cavaillé-Colls (Ricercar) is hard to beat.

Ditto van Oosten's work with Vierne, Lemmens, and Widor; but most impressive is Filsell's complete Vierne Symphony cycle on Cavaillé-Coll's chef d'œuvre at St Ouen, Rouen.

Too, there's a very quality performance/recording by Bruno Mathieu (Naxos) of Vierne's Third and Sixth on the Dalstein-Hærpfer of St. Sébastien, Nancy.

Stockmeier's Karg-Elert work on various German organs is excellent, but that said, much prefer Joh. Michel's realizations on the harmonium d'art--really very curious indeed.


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