# A serieous discussion on Solage and his ars subtilior composer conterpart from italy?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

From what i heard he was probably born in avignon his music , has some deepness noticable,
incredible find thank to of course a TC menber, love you guys.

Than what about Solage or J Solage (jean solage) or this mysterieous foggy pseudo , yeah i know fumeur fume par fuméé, but there more than this.

The parallel between him and Gesualdo is strong when his work is played in slow motion.
Fumeur fume par fumé comme to mind and hélas! je voy mon cuer.

Le basile is another outstanding work , i dont have mutch Solage 7 songs and two version of fumeur fume par fumé(which is great beside this i dont have mutch more) but he was not prolific or anything he wrothe like 12 song rondeau ballade, you get the picture.

But i was wondering if ars subtilior has is Solage since this movement cross the border into italia.
*Were there odd classical composer in italy.Pretty mutch like Solage oddball but smart bold avant-garde.*?

I would like to point out i feel mutch better i'm back to self-control and bitterless, i salute my friends on talk classical.

P.S if you whant to had something to ars subtilior did this movement cross into spain or Portugal beside italy? just asking?

:tiphat: have a nice day


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

_Were there odd classical composer in italy.Pretty mutch like Solage oddball but smart bold avant-garde.?
_
Italians: Giovanni da Cascia, maybe?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Johannes Ciconia wrote French Ars subtilior chanson as well as Italian songs with similar traits. He worked in Avignon for part of his career.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> But i was wondering if ars subtilior has is Solage since this movement cross the border into italia.
> *Were there odd classical composer in italy.Pretty mutch like Solage oddball but smart bold avant-garde.*?
> 
> :tiphat: have a nice day


This isn't directly answering your question, but how avant garde as opposed to how sensual Ars Subtilior seems depends greatly on performances. The most avant garde I've heard come from the codex Chantilly CDs by Ensemble Organum and Graidelavoix.

Also not a real answer to your question, but there's a recording of songs by Dufay which are particularly Italianate called "Voyage en Italie" by La Reverdie. It's inclined to be more sensual than avant garde, but you may well find it hits the spot.

I'll be interested to see what you make of Edward's suggestion of Ciconia.


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## sloth (Jul 12, 2013)

Italian composers in a similar vein of Solage's were Matteo da Perugia and Antonello da Caserta. Malapunica has recorded two albums of their compositions


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

sloth said:


> Italian composers in a similar vein of Solage's were Matteo da Perugia and Antonello da Caserta. Malapunica has recorded two albums of their compositions


Oh yes, Caserta definitely! I Heard one particularly convoluted rondeau by him sung by Gothic Voices.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Speaking of considerable* Solage *work i find this new cd called Codex Chantilly '' de caelis'' conduct by Laurence brisset, this is an all female cd rendition of Solage and it does sound and look very great, sensual melody of this era exotic perfume come to mine.
The cd is on outhere records one of the best Solage i heard, since i heard a glimpse now whit this wonderfull marveleous may i dare says sexy cd, very very good purchase i order , mandatory lisening.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Speaking of considerable* Solage *work i find this new cd called Codex Chantilly '' de caelis'' conduct by Laurence brisset, this is an all female cd rendition of Solage and it does sound and look very great, sensual melody of this era exotic perfume come to mine.
> The cd is on outhere records one of the best Solage i heard, since i heard a glimpse now whit this wonderfull marveleous may i dare says sexy cd, very very good purchase i order , mandatory lisening.


I agree with this, and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed a girl band in this music.

I too have been listening to a little music from this period, though whether it's Ars Subtilior or not I cannot tell, not Solages, but Ciconia, the recording Thomas Binkley made with Studio der Frühen Musik. Very good stuff!


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I agree with this, and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed a girl band in this music.


I was not quite as convinced by the persistent chirping, but OK I shall listen to it again.



Mandryka said:


> I too have been listening to a little music from this period, though whether it's Ars Subtilior or not I cannot tell, not Solages, but Ciconia, the recording Thomas Binkley made with Studio der Frühen Musik. Very good stuff!


Whatever the musicologists say, I do not consider Ciconia's music to be Ars Subtilior. It is much more "Italian" flowing and not quite as complex.

And I agree about the SdFM/Binkley - very expressive, like all this group made.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

premont said:


> Whatever the musicologists say, I do not consider Ciconia's music to be Ars Subtilior. It is much more "Italian" flowing and not quite as complex.


Yes this is my view, but I've been intimidated by the confidence of people who shout at me to say that Ciconia is a paradigm of Art Subtilior!



premont said:


> I was not quite as convinced by the persistent chirping, but OK I shall listen to it again.


I have heard this response before, I suspect it's quite common.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I think you will enjoy this new CD, not least for the Trebor


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