# Dvorák's Op.81



## Crassus (Nov 4, 2013)

"A second hearing only serves to confirm the original impression that it is one of the finest, and at the same time of the most beautiful and attractive, of its composer's chamber works. Its principal characteristic is the strong national colouring which pervades it throughout, though only in one movement does Dvorak permit this pronounced tendency to override in the smallest degree his musicianly feeling. It is difficult to regard the form of the "Dumka," or elegy, as satisfactory. Two themes are presented several times, each with various modifications, but without any regular development. The movement, therefore, gives the impression of patchiness, despite the beauty of the melodies. The first and last sections are models of form as well as of originality, and the scherzo, or "furiant" as the composer calls it, is simply irresistible in its surging energy and freshness."






What are your thoughts on the piece? Favourite recordings (Richter and Borodin's aside)? Feel free to discuss Dvorák's chamber works and whatnot in this thread


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

In my opinion it is Dvorak's greatest composition ( a tie with the Cello Concerto).

Like so many of the great composers, it is chamber music that finds them at their most inspired, whether it's Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Brahms or Dvorak.

I love the recording by Artur Rubinstein with the Guarneri Quartet.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

My favorite recording was Peter Serkin with a lot of the same players in the Rubinstein recording, with Mischa Schneider on hand as well. I haven't had that lp for ages, so I 'make do' with Firkusny/ Julliard


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## Rhinotop (Jul 8, 2016)

It's the best chamber composition of him, along with the String quintet #3, last string quartets and the Piano trio #4.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

With as much as I love Dvorak's symphonic works - especially the Cello Concerto - I love his chamber works more. I have this work recorded by the Takacs Quartet with Andreas Haefliger on Decca. Great work.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Wonderful music, my favourite are Borodin Quartet, Sviatoslav /Richter (piano) and from later onanocha Quartet


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

It is certainly a masterpiece and one of the most popular chamber music. 
IMO, the famous Richter/Borodin has some bold (or even coarse) rendition in the string parts. For example, the cellist plays the opening theme of movement one with a harsh bowing (I can not remember in which measure, but it does exist), which sounds like a mistake made by an amateur. Of course, Richter is the star here, but for me the strings are not good enough to balance him.
Alban Berg Quartet/Buchbinder EMI is my favorite version, a fantastic live performance issued along with Schumann's piano quintet by another pianist. Kovacevich/BPO octect is also top-notch in terms of overall performance, but it does not repeat the exposition of movement one which may be a drawback. Both these two versions have excellent rich and polished strings that are essential to the texture and development of the work.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> It is certainly a masterpiece and one of the most popular chamber music.
> IMO, the famous Richter/Borodin has some bold (or even coarse) rendition in the string parts. For example, the cellist plays the opening theme of movement one with a harsh bowing (I can not remember in which measure, but it does exist), which sounds like a mistake made by an amateur. Of course, Richter is the star here, but for me the strings are not good enough to balance him.


Oh yes, that Valentin Berlinsky, a rank amateur.  The Borodin was one of the best quartets on the planet for decades. Why do you think Richter kept recording with them?


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## Crassus (Nov 4, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> Both these two versions have excellent rich and polished strings that are essential to the texture and development of the work.


Would you place the importance of polished strings above phrasing in that case? I feel that Buchbinger and the Berg quartet struggle for control at times, whereas Richter and the Borodin quartet are in agreement. The Berg quartet is too soft on the unisons and certain passages (which is uncharacteristic of them), if you ask me.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I favor the Psophos Quartet with Dana Ciocarlie on piano; the label is Ar Re-se. To be honest, I've never heard a recording of Op. 81 that I didn't like.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I know about their fame. But what I care more is the things they've done in the recording. They might be the best, but it does not mean that they did all the task in the best way and made no mistake.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

EdwardBast said:


> Oh yes, that Valentin Berlinsky, a rank amateur.  The Borodin was one of the best quartets on the planet for decades. Why do you think Richter kept recording with them?


I know about their fame. But what I care more is the things they've done in the recording. They might be the best, but it does not mean that they did all the task in the best way and made no mistake.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Crassus said:


> Would you place the importance of polished strings above phasing in that case? I feel that Buchbinger and the Berg quartet struggle for control at times, whereas Richter and the Borodin quartet are in agreement. The Berg quartet is too soft on the unisons and certain passages (which is uncharacteristic of them), if you ask me.


I don't remember there is any phrasing problem or struggle in Berg quartet, could you show me the measure numbers? I'll have another try. I agree that Berg is soft comparing with Borodin, but I don't think it is necessarily a problem. It is a personal taste thing.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Boris Giltburg and the Pavel Haas quartet won the most recent BBC Radio 3 Building a Library for Dvorak's Piano Quintet No. 2 in A Major, Op. 8. I was impressed enough to immediately buy the CD and play it on arrival. There is a good balance between pianist and the other members of the quintet, with good phrasing throughout. It's powerful, fast and dynamic, as with other Pavel Haas performances. 







P.S. Note the generous coupling, I enjoyed the Op. 97 performance almost as much as the Op. 81.
P.P.S. Panocha Quartet, with Schiff, came a very close second, with the BAL reviewer suggesting that Schiff, although brilliant, was a shade too prominent at times.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Yes, and it was discussed in another Forum that I think we both participate in. My favorite was the Peter Serkin/echo-Guarneri Qt but I think it is long oop. I recently bought the Emerson Qt/Pressler recording and have enjoyed it very much


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

A few years ago at the Sarasota Music Festival(excerpt chamber music by the best conservatory students) I heard a wonderfully moving performance of the first movement. So refreshing to hear a wonderful performance, not simply played by rote by folks who may have performed it several hundred times.


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## SCSL (Apr 7, 2018)

Big Dvorak fan here. I enjoy the 2nd piano quintet. However, I always thought he was at his best with strings rather than piano. As such, as it regards his chamber music, I prefer and recommend the string quartets, specifically nos. 9 & 10.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

I listened to the Emerson Qt/Pressler recording of the Piano Quartet No. 2 (Op.87) on Spotify and put it on my "possible purchase" list. It comes with the quintet, but Third ear described it as "not subtle", so I didn't listen to it.

The third ear reviewer has a "tetchy schoolteacher" air that others have complained about in the BAL review. Maybe it brings out the worst in reviewers, or the best :devil:. 

Third ear, like BAL, produces a list of star-studded quintets with one sentence dismissals, like a grumpy teacher ticking off his pupils, for their C grade essays, one by one: "not Czech sounding", "too sweet", "leisurely", "wiry strings", "not colourful in the piano", "not subtle", "not ideal", poorly balanced", "mannered". 

Anyway, take the opposite of all these negatives and I'd say you have the Pavel Haas performance. 

Then again, maybe Pavel Hass lacks a certain "loveliness" and "warmth", so I'd be looking at Curzon/Vienna, which is "warm and lyrical " according to Third Ear, which I agree with from my Spotify test some time ago.

Others that Third Ear rates "an A", and I'll be looking for, are Rubinstein/Guarneri and Melos Ensemble; the latter is described as "lovely and old fashioned", which Pavel Hass isn't, the former as "infectious playing", which Pavel Hass is.

Third ear does rate Serkin, "a very personal reading of strength"; 3E says it's on Vanguard 8003 or in a four disk set, if people want to dig for it. I'm tempted as Serkin/Szell is my first choice for Brahms' first piano concerto, and "a very personal reading of strength" certainly describes that.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

SCSL said:


> Big Dvorak fan here. I enjoy the 2nd piano quintet. However, I always thought he was at his best with strings rather than piano. As such, as it regards his chamber music, I prefer and recommend the string quartets, specifically nos. 9 & 10.


Do you know the op 77 quintet?


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't know the Op. 77 quintet, so I started a new thread, please move to it, if discussing Op. 77 alone, so that we don't derail this thread:

Dvorák: String Quintet Op. 77

There is already a discussion thread on Dvorak's string quartets in general, if you want to range in that direction:

Dvorak - the best string quartets and the best recordings of them

It's useful to suggest works that people might like if they like Op. 81, but lets try and keep this thread mainly focused on Op. 81.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

hpowders said:


> ... So refreshing to hear a wonderful performance, not simply played by rote by folks who may have performed it several hundred times.


Are you suggesting that some of the big name quartets are playing by rote in Op. 81? Do name names!

Rote learning is a cheap & quick memorisation technique that I'd expect a quartet to use if they have to play something "tomorrow". Wouldn't they learn a piece properly if they had to play it hundreds of times? Do you really mean that some of the big name quartets are getting a bit jaded? Or are they so lazy that they have never done anything but learn by rote?


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