# The Music of Bela Bartok (1881-1945)



## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I would like to begin exploring the music of Bela Bartok. I have purchased a subscription for the Digital Concert Hall and also own some CD's of his music, as follows.

1) Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta and Hungarian Sketches (Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Fritz Reiner).

2) Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Rafael Kubelik).

3) Hungarian Sketches and Roumanian Dances (Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra/Antal Dorati)

4) Violin Concerto No.2 and Second Suite (Yehudi Menuhin, Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra/Antal Dorati)

5) Hungarian Peasant Songs, Hungarian Sketches, Romanian Folk Dances, Transylvanian Dances and The Miraculous Mandarin (Hungarian Radio Chorus, Budapest Festival Orchestra, Ivan Fischer).

6) Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, Out of Doors and Sonatina (Martha Argerich, Stephen Kovacevich, Willy Goudswaard, Michael de Roo).

Can anyone suggest a good order in which to listen to these CD'S as a newcomer to Bartok? I'm also fascinated by his Piano Concertos (having read about them) and would like recommendations for them as well.

The Digital Concert Hall also presents concerts with music by Bartok, so I'll use that medium too.

Keep the replies coming!

Louis Solomons


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

For the three amazing piano concertos, I recommend the Sony CD with György Sándor and Adam Fischer conducting. As the photo shows, Sándor and Bartók were close friends, having studied together in Hungary.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> For the three amazing piano concertos, I recommend the Sony CD with György Sándor and Adam Fischer conducting. As the photo shows, Sándor and Bartók were close friends, having studied together in Hungary.
> 
> View attachment 100780


Thanks...will look into this at some point, but see what others come up with as well.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Does anyone know of an ideal introduction CD to Bartok's musiic? I realised that I prefer to do this now as I haven't really listened to much Bartok recently actually.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Rumanian Dances Sz 68, Music for strings, percussion and celesta, Concerto for orchestra, and Violin concerto nº 2 would be a good introduction to this composer, the piano concertos as well. Then you should try the 6 string quatets, Sonata for two pianos and percussion, Cantata Profana, The Miraculous Mandarin and The Wood Prince. These works are a little more aggresive in language but highly enjoyable.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Your number 1 CD will do just fine as an intro to BB. The Concerto for Orchestra is a very accessable masterpiece, acclaimed by just about everybody; very emotional. The Music for Percussion, Strings and Celesta is also a masterpiece, and shows BB wandering a little farther off the reservation than the Concerto. The Hungarian Sketches very fine also. Can't go wrong. If you don't like these, you don't like Bartók.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Don't skip his opera, which is my favorite Bartok. Very creepy, powerful and gripping.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> Don't skip his opera, which is my favorite Bartok. Very creepy, powerful and gripping.
> 
> View attachment 100786


I, of course, have a particular fondness for this opera.:lol:


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

This is an excellent disc of some of his choral works:


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

There's so much in Bartók to explore. For me, the most important score he wrote is the opera _A kékszakállú herceg vára/Bluebeard's Castle_ that just needs to be heard by anyone interested in his music. The three piano concertos are some of the most important entries ever written in that genre, and the same goes for the violin concertos. Isabelle Faust, with the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra under Daniel Harding, is one of the current violinists who truly 'gets' those pieces - her recording is definitely worth checking out!

The six string quartets are obviously an outstanding achievement, but I probably wouldn't start with them - at least for me they seemed a bit austere during my early explorations. The sonata for two pianos and percussion is a guaranteed thrill, make sure to check it out. If you're feeling really thorny, take a plunge into the brutal sound world of the first sonata for piano and violin - it's a massive and difficult score that yields great rewards once studied closely.

I feel like Bartók's piano music is a bit underrated, it needs more attention. Zoltán Kocsis recorded all of it, and very well indeed!


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

I've found the violin (and viola) concertos quite accessible and friendly in my Bartok process. Also the string quartets, but that depends on of course if the genre is familiar in general.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> Does anyone know of an ideal introduction CD to Bartok's musiic? I realised that I prefer to do this now as I haven't really listened to much Bartok recently actually.


The Reiner CD that you own with MSPC and the Hungarian Sketches was my introduction to Bartok. I also highly recommend a pairing of Daniel Barenboim and Pierre Boulez in PC 1&3. The Emerson Quartet version of the String Quartets is outstanding.
Antal Dorati and the Detroit SO recording of the Miraculous Mandarin is mind blowing, and all the Mercury Bartok Recordings are really good.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

And in very accessible vein, the Divertimento for string orchestra:


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Your number 1 CD will do just fine as an intro to BB. The Concerto for Orchestra is a very accessable masterpiece, acclaimed by just about everybody; very emotional. The Music for Percussion, Strings and Celesta is also a masterpiece, and shows BB wandering a little farther off the reservation than the Concerto. The Hungarian Sketches very fine also. Can't go wrong. If you don't like these, you don't like Bartók.


As someone who has also looked to explore Bartok and used the Boulez Bartok box set I feel these comments would reflect my experiences


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Your number 1 CD will do just fine as an intro to BB. The Concerto for Orchestra is a very accessable masterpiece, acclaimed by just about everybody; very emotional. The Music for Percussion, Strings and Celesta is also a masterpiece, and shows BB wandering a little farther off the reservation than the Concerto. The Hungarian Sketches very fine also. Can't go wrong. If you don't like these, you don't like Bartók.


Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'm going to go with Strange Music's advice for the moment. Where does Duke Bluebeard's Castle come into all this? I've seen posts about but unsure at which point to check it out. Continuing on from my number 1 CD, if there's anyone who can list a suitable order for what to come next, I'd be grateful. I can only purchase so much at a time.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2018)

The six string quartets.

I know they've been mentioned already but I feel the need to mention them again! They are definitely some of his best pieces and are some the best SQs of the 20th century.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Bartok's string quartets are too often played with an offputting _astringency_ and _austerity_ that can be a complete turnoff and mask their uplifting qualities of warmth, with the exception of the performances by the _Ramor String Quartet_-my favorite recordings by a country mile. Highly recommended even for those new to Bartok. One can virtually hear his complete harmonic development over a lifetime and just how uncompromising his musicality was. Others may not agree, but I consider his string quartets essential Bartok and entirely accessible when performed well. It's just that they are too often performed _harshly_ with an unnecessary _overly strident_ approach to highlight their highly concentrated harmonies and dissonances, though the quartets are hardly written with dissonances throughout. They are capable of being performed quite lyrically too. Quartet No. 5 is perhaps the highlight, but I consider all six as gems of amazing 20th-century music that capture the soul of this great Hungarian composer.

https://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Ramor-Quartet-Béla-Bartók/dp/B004ZPGTJW


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I think it does not matter where you start exploring. Inspired by this thread, I started exploring Bartok too. I listened to the Concerto for orchestra first and liked it. It reminded me of Prokofiev, also a mixture of chaos and melody, and a piece of this complexity will need multiple listenings.
I do not enjoy string quartets or piano pieces that much, so I leave that for later. I tend to explore the symphonic and orchestra pieces with virtually any composer first .


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

Larkenfield said:


> Bartok's String Quartets are too often played with an offputting _astringency_ and _austerity_ that can be a complete turnoff and mask their uplifting qualities, except the performances by the _Ramor String Quartet_-my favorite recordings by a country mile. Highly recommended even for those new to Bartok. One can virtually hear his complete harmonic development over a lifetime and just how uncompromising his musicality is. Others may not agree, but I consider his string quartets essential Bartok and entirely accessible when performed well. It's just that they are too often performed _harshly_ with the misunderstanding of an _overly strident_ approach to highlighting their highly concentrated harmonies and dissonances, though the quartets are hardly written with dissonance throughout. Quartet No. 5 is perhaps the highlight, but I consider all six as gems of amazing 20th-century music that capture the soul of this great Hungarian composer.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Ramor-Quartet-Béla-Bartók/dp/B004ZPGTJW


Thanks for the recommendation! I've always found Bartók's quartets to be challenging listening, and that's probably because the recordings I've listened to emphasize their harsh, strident qualities. I'll be sure to give these Ramor Quartet recordings a listen!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

kyjo said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! I've always found Bartók's quartets to be challenging listening, and that's probably because the recordings I've listened to emphasize their harsh, strident qualities. I'll be sure to give these Ramor Quartet recordings a listen!


Kyjo, Good luck with the Ramor Bartok performances. Every listener is different of course, but I took.to them immediately after suffering through a number of harsh performances by other string quartets. I found the Ramor recordings to be a great portal into a better understanding and appreciation of his uniquely original and 20th-century modern sounds. Perhaps you'll enjoy them too.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Maybe it's me but I fail to see what is so challenging in Bartók. I first heard his music when I was 15 (a few decades ago) and I was immediately grabbed by it and bought his complete works within 5 years (from money earned by delivering newspapers to people's doorsteps). I'm not a believer in this 'learning curve'. You like it or you don't and as far as I'm concerned you know that immediately. But if you believe in this approach and you want to 'grow into Bartók' and follow his development I'd suggest you listen chronologically (although I personally would skip his youth works). Anything after that is gold and it merely depends on your preferences for music (orchestral, chamber, vocal, piano, etc) what you could like.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Sir George Solti, a fellow Hungarian, knew and studied with Bartók. His version of Concerto for Orchestra with Chicago is full of nuance and music making in small ways that get completely overlooked by Reiner. I find it bewildering why that Reiner recording gets so much attention.


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

20centrfuge said:


> Sir George Solti, a fellow Hungarian, knew and studied with Bartók. His version of Concerto for Orchestra with Chicago is full of nuance and music making in small ways that get completely overlooked by Reiner. I find it bewildering why that Reiner recording gets so much attention.


I also find the Reiner recording of the Concerto for Orchestra overrated - to my ears, it's rather cold and grey and doesn't bring out all the different colors and moods of the work. It was the first performance of the work I listened to and, unfortunately, it turned me off to the work for a while. Other performances have definitely improved my opinion of the work, but it's still not one of my favorite Bartok works. My favorite Bartok works include the piano concerti (especially nos. 2 and 3), the Divertimento for strings, Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, and the delightful early Piano Quintet.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

kyjo said:


> I also find the Reiner recording of the Concerto for Orchestra overrated - to my ears, it's rather cold and grey and doesn't bring out all the different colors and moods of the work.


I admit that I find the Concerto for Orchestra kind of "cold" regardless of the performance. Yes, it's a great work, but Bartok was seldom noted for being warm and cuddly -- even in his most accessible dance suites. His virtues lay in other directions.


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

KenOC said:


> I admit that I find the Concerto for Orchestra kind of "cold" regardless of the performance. Yes, it's a great work, but Bartok was seldom noted for being warm and cuddly -- even in his most accessible dance suites. His virtues lay in other directions.


Yeah, same here actually. I often see it described as Bartok's most accessible work - I don't agree.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Casebearer said:


> Maybe it's me but I fail to see what is so challenging in Bartók. I first heard his music when I was 15 (a few decades ago) and I was immediately grabbed by it and bought his complete works within 5 years (from money earned by delivering newspapers to people's doorsteps). I'm not a believer in this 'learning curve'. You like it or you don't and as far as I'm concerned you know that immediately. But if you believe in this approach and you want to 'grow into Bartók' and follow his development I'd suggest you listen chronologically (although I personally would skip his youth works). Anything after that is gold and it merely depends on your preferences for music (orchestral, chamber, vocal, piano, etc) what you could like.


I was about the same age when I discovered Bartok and I agree with most of your comments. Some of his mature works can sound off putting on first hearing-some of the Quartets, primarily-but after some initial listens they begin to 'settle in' for me.
There are a few of his scores that just have never done much for me-the Cantata Profane or either of the VCs-but most of the rest of his Mature output makes him an essential Composer.
I was listening to the Detroit/ Dorati Mandarin last night-what a terrific piece of music and recording!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Bartók was definitely "cute and cuddly", Ken!! Warm?? Yeah, not so sure...

My way into this composer - one of my top Gods - was through the Second Piano Concerto. It has such a wonderful life force and a fundamental joy, that I still find it remarkably uplifting.

His most accessible works beyond that have to include the Concerto for Orchestra, Dance Suite, the Big Violin Concerto.

Thence it'd have to be the unparalleled Quartets, the Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, Music for Strings, Bluebeard, the Mandarin, the underrated Cantata Profana......

God, there's a lot of quality here!

Anyone here like his songs and choral pieces? They are where it all stems from.......


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## staxomega (Oct 17, 2011)

Larkenfield said:


> Bartok's string quartets are too often played with an offputting _astringency_ and _austerity_ that can be a complete turnoff and mask their uplifting qualities of warmth, with the exception of the performances by the _Ramor String Quartet_-my favorite recordings by a country mile. Highly recommended even for those new to Bartok. One can virtually hear his complete harmonic development over a lifetime and just how uncompromising his musicality was. Others may not agree, but I consider his string quartets essential Bartok and entirely accessible when performed well. It's just that they are too often performed _harshly_ with an unnecessary _overly strident_ approach to highlight their highly concentrated harmonies and dissonances, though the quartets are hardly written with dissonances throughout. They are capable of being performed quite lyrically too. Quartet No. 5 is perhaps the highlight, but I consider all six as gems of amazing 20th-century music that capture the soul of this great Hungarian composer.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Ramor-Quartet-Béla-Bartók/dp/B004ZPGTJW


Have you heard Belcea or Tatrai Quartet with Bartok? Curious how these compare to Ramor. I will second the recommendation for the string quartets they are fantastic.



LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like to begin exploring the music of Bela Bartok. I have purchased a subscription for the Digital Concert Hall and also own some CD's of his music, as follows.
> 
> 1) Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta and Hungarian Sketches (Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Fritz Reiner).
> 
> ...


For the concertos there is a fine Philips 2 CD with Kovacevich and Szyerng, Bartok's piano concertos are superb. I don't think there is any wrong way to approach it with regard to listening order. I would listen to the first disc with Reiner because it's a thrilling performance and it will get you excited about Bartok. Or you will hate it :lol:


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Robert Pickett said:


> .....Anyone here like his songs and choral pieces? They are where it all stems from.......


In fact, I do (see post #9).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I admit that I find the Concerto for Orchestra kind of "cold" regardless of the performance. Yes, it's a great work, but Bartok was seldom noted for being warm and cuddly -- even in his most accessible dance suites. His virtues lay in other directions.


Personally I can't imagine anything more warm and cuddly than the third quartet. That's the place I'd advise the person who made the opening post to start. Especially if they can find the old recording by The New Music String Quartet.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Triplets said:


> I was about the same age when I discovered Bartok and I agree with most of your comments. Some of his mature works can sound off putting on first hearing-some of the Quartets, primarily-but after some initial listens they begin to 'settle in' for me.
> There are a few of his scores that just have never done much for me-the Cantata Profane or either of the VCs-but most of the rest of his Mature output makes him an essential Composer.
> I was listening to the Detroit/ Dorati Mandarin last night-what a terrific piece of music and recording!


My first encouter was his second Violin concertoe. Had no trouble being fascinated and enjoying that. 
I also rate his Cantata Profana amongst his best works.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> I would like to begin exploring the music of Bela Bartok. I have purchased a subscription for the Digital Concert Hall and also own some CD's of his music, as follows.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a good order in which to listen to these CD'S as a newcomer to Bartok?
> 
> 1) Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta and Hungarian Sketches (Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Fritz Reiner).....


This is a great place to start....doesn't get any better......


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Joe B and casebearer: glad I am not the only one. The choral music, from the large scale Cantata Profana to the a cappella stuff, is wonderful! Trouble is the Cantata Is too short and too big forces wise to get more than the very rare public performance. I've seen Solti doing it live, and that's it, alas.

For the littler pieces Kocsis' newish Hungaroton CD is very worth getting. And small scale pieces like the Village Scenes should better known.

Heck - re Reiner's Bartok. As ever you display impeccable taste! It's a classic.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

When you're through the mature, "real" Bartok, another work of his that I really enjoy is the early symphonic poem, Kossuth. More Richard Strauss than Bartok, but it's still a powerful, thrilling piece that really needs to get out into the concert hall.

Re Reiner's Concerto: it is a legendary recording, it was also one of the first. Reiner knew Bartok and was partly responsible for getting it written. The playing of the Chicago Symphony is still a marvel and Reiner whips the orchestra into a frenzy when needed and seems to understand the music better than anyone. Not that there aren't dazzling other versions by Fischer, Ozawa, Boulez, Blomstedt...so many great ones. The only drawback to Reiner, and it is a minor one, is the nearly 60 year old sound. The best release, in SACD, is pretty good, but no match for the latest digital recording methods.


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Heck148 said:


> This is a great place to start....doesn't get any better......


Thanks. Will have a listen sometime!


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I like the Piano Concertos as done by Rattle/Donohoe and the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra on EMI. As far as Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta the best I've heard is the Fricsay mono recording on DG. 

The Belcea Quartet is great for the String Quartets.

Also be sure to check out the excellent two Violin Sonatas and the Piano Quintet.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

The early Violin Concerto and the 3rd Piano Concerto are the most approachable of his works; the 3rd and 4th Quartets, the least.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I disagree: the third and fourth quartet are the most approachable because they have real substance and what else would you look for in music?


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Silence is very approachable.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Casebearer said:


> I disagree: the third and fourth quartet are the most approachable because they have real substance and what else would you look for in music?


Only if you are used to that particular idiom - it is totally different from the idiom of the 1st quartet. 'Approachable to me means coming with an unversed , not a sophisticated, ear


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The third piano concerto might be the easiest to get into. I have the Sandor, and Kovacevich sets which are excellent. I also really like the Boulez CD of the orchestral version of the two pianos and percussion sonata. This also includes the viola concerto. I agree with Larkenfield about the astringency factor in the string quartet recordings. When you hear string players in person it doesn't sound so edgy, so a slightly silkier sound on record might be a good approach. I'll look into the Ramor quartet. The Miraculous Mandarin is another great piece. I like the Dutoit recording on Decca. And of course everyone one should listen to the Concerto for Orchestra, and Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste. I have three recordings and I like the Ozawa CD on Philips.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

The 44 violin duos could be a good introduction to his chamber works. More advanced than the early Mikrokosmos pieces, but not as abstract as the (incredible) string quartets.

-09


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I just relistened to his late quartets, they used to be too intense for me. The 5th really stood out for me, after listening to the 4th which was already one of the most brilliant works I ever heard by anyone in any genre.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Road to Damascus moment, eh Phil?

Great isn't it!


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> Your number 1 CD will do just fine as an intro to BB. The Concerto for Orchestra is a.... masterpiece, acclaimed by just about everybody; very emotional. The Music for Percussion, Strings and Celesta is also a masterpiece, and shows BB wandering a little farther off the reservation than the Concerto. The Hungarian Sketches very fine also. Can't go wrong. If you don't like these, you don't like Bartók.


No, but you are right about the others


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^I'll rephrase: I think the Concerto for Orchestra is a masterpiece .


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

manyene said:


> Only if you are used to that particular idiom - it is totally different from the idiom of the 1st quartet. 'Approachable to me means coming with an unversed , not a sophisticated, ear


I understand what you mean of course and it may be true for other people than me. Nevertheless my personal experience is different. I heard all of Bartók's string quartets around the age of 16 and immediately found the last four the most interesting and memorable. You can't accuse me of having a sophisticated ear at 16. I always was in no way 'used' to that idiom.


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