# What is your opinion of Giovanni Martinelli????



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am more knowledgeable about female voices but end up listening a good bit to Martinelli as he sings a good bit with Ponselle. I have grown to really love the sound of his voice and his interpretation. I believe he is often unfavorably compared to Caruso. I think he would be a big star today. What do you think about him so I can learn from you.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I'm a fan, although I recognise his technical shortcomings. He often sang flat and his forcefully, stentorian delivery sometimes sacrifices beauty and technique for dramatic truth. That's why some don't like him, but I love his voice and individuality. I have a lot of his recordings, both in the studio and live. The reason he compares unfavourably with Caruso is because Caruso had it all in equal measure, technique, musicality, could sing anything and his interpretations were superb. I prefer other voices, but I don't think anyone can say that Caruso couldn't sing.

N.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

I think Martinelli was a very exciting and interesting singer. His phrasing was very expansive and diction was superb.

A well-recorded example is Gioconda from the Met in 1939 with Milanov, Castagna, Morelli.




Cielo e mar (58:23)

His career started much earlier, back in acoustic days when his voice was more beautiful.





The tomb scene from Aida with Ponselle is a dream performance as far as I'm concerned





That being said, the longevity of his singing was remarkable: I enjoy this private recording from 1960 where he is 75 years old  I think that is in stereo? Not many careers encompassed so much.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The sound of his voice wasn't one of my top favorites but being a lover of drama and singers who commit to the depths of a character, I really am a fan of his portrayals. He puts his entire being into a role.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The tomb scene is the one that won me over for him. Ponselle doesn't upstage him which is saying a lot. Thanks Revitalized Classics.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I'm a fan, although I recognise his technical shortcomings. He often sang flat and his forcefully, stentorian delivery sometimes sacrifices beauty and technique for dramatic truth. That's why some don't like him, but I love his voice and individuality. I have a lot of his recordings, both in the studio and live. The reason he compares unfavourably with Caruso is because Caruso had it all in equal measure, technique, musicality, could sing anything and his interpretations were superb. I prefer other voices, but I don't think anyone can say that Caruso couldn't sing.
> 
> N.


I am ignorant here, but would Martinelli's audio recordings be slightly better than Caruso's, who I think was before him??? Side note, do you like the Caruso recordings that use a modern orchestra? Thanks, John.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am ignorant here, but would Martinelli's audio recordings be slightly better than Caruso's, who I think was before him??? Side note, do you like the Caruso recordings that use a modern orchestra? Thanks, John.


The sound quality is better, of course, in Martinelli's studio recordings (especially the electric ones), however my understanding is that most people who heard them both preferred Caruso and his singing is better technically than Martinelli.

If you can find it, there is a three disc set of Martinelli's early recordings on Romophone and the Lebendige Vergangenheit CD is good too. Are you familiar with the live Otello with Tibbett? That's an absolute classic and is very cheap on Naxos CD. I'm sure most of this stuff is on YouTube as well.

N.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

These videos speak for themselves.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> The sound quality is better, of course, in Martinelli's studio recordings (especially the electric ones), however my understanding is that most people who heard them both preferred Caruso and his singing is better technically than Martinelli.
> 
> If you can find it, there is a three disc set of Martinelli's early recordings on Romophone and the Lebendige Vergangenheit CD is good too. Are you familiar with the live Otello with Tibbett? That's an absolute classic and is very cheap on Naxos CD. I'm sure most of this stuff is on YouTube as well.
> 
> N.


Thanks. I haven't listened to Caruso in ages and need to find a place to recommend the best recordings.. or else post on here for it. I feel justified in enjoying Martinelli thanks to you and other responders here. Caruso is like the Ponselle of tenors.... although I prefer Corelli.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Actually the whole world looks good to me and sounds real good to me at last.




:tiphat:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks. I haven't listened to Caruso in ages and need to find a place to recommend the best recordings.. or else post on here for it. I feel justified in enjoying Martinelli thanks to you and other responders here. Caruso is like the Ponselle of tenors.... although I prefer Corelli.


My experience with Martinelli is confined to a *Trovatore* with Callas, Naples 1951. He was in decline and was booed for a bad note or two. It was a heroic voice. I prefer Corelli to Martinelli and to Caruso (never a favorite).


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> My experience with Martinelli is confined to a *Trovatore* with Callas, Naples 1951. He was in decline and was booed for a bad note or two. It was a heroic voice. I prefer Corelli to Martinelli and to Caruso (never a favorite).


Martinelli never sang with Callas, that was Lauri-Volpi in Naples. I prefer Corelli to Martinelli too and I admire Caruso rather than like the voice (and of course that's in part due to the lack of sound quality).

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> Martinelli never sang with Callas, that was Lauri-Volpi in Naples. I prefer Corelli to Martinelli too and I admire Caruso rather than like the voice (and of course that's in part due to the lack of sound quality).
> 
> N.


Oh, right! Thanks for the correction. I have even less experience with Martinelli! :lol: :lol:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Martinelli never sang with Callas, that was Lauri-Volpi in Naples. I prefer Corelli to Martinelli too and I admire Caruso rather than like the voice (and of course that's in part due to the lack of sound quality).
> 
> N.


I am with you on these tenors. Caruso's sound is more primitive than Ponselle, who I love to listen to. Corelli OMG!


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Martinelli is one of my top ten tenors. His early acoustic and electric recordings are sensational. There is no more exciting tenor than Martinelli when he's on fire. One of my favorite all time recordings is the trio Troncar suoi di from _Tell_ with Martinelli, De Luca, and Mardones (!!!!!!). As far as I know, there is no good transfer on YouTube, but in Preiser's excellent transfer Martinelli shines. He is often known mainly from his Met broadcasts, which are more variable, though which contain a lot of great singing.

I agree with those who say Caruso is better, but who stands up to Caruso? Caruso had perfect technique. Martinelli did not, but he did have outstanding technique.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

oo! very dramatic! a true dramatic tenor rather than a lighter voice pushed into heavier rep


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

don't get me wrong, we have plenty of singers with the cords to sing this rep....but we've already pushed all of them down to sing as "baritones"


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Martinelli is one of my top ten tenors. His early acoustic and electric recordings are sensational. There is no more exciting tenor than Martinelli when he's on fire. One of my favorite all time recordings is the trio Troncar suoi di from _Tell_ with Martinelli, De Luca, and Mardones (!!!!!!).


That trio was on my first Martinelli LP, and I wore out that band.



> As far as I know, there is no good transfer on YouTube, but in Preiser's excellent transfer Martinelli shines.


The best transfers of the Martinelli acoustics are Marston's, on the Romophone label. OOP, but often seen on eBay. There's also a decent collection of the early electricals on Pearl. Martinelli's records aren't easy to reproduce, and he's one of the few singers who actually benefits from the Nimbus "Ambisonic" process.

This recording of the trio has a lot of nonmusical noise, but the voices sound OK:








> He is often known mainly from his Met broadcasts, which are more variable, though which contain a lot of great singing.


The problem with the Met broadcasts is that they're recordings of a tenor in his mid-50's, who'd been singing for more than two decades, and the dried-out tonal quality of his later vocalism is tough to ignore. The acoustics and early electricals are fabulous, though.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I second the point about his early recordings being a must and that he is heard in best sound on the three disc Romophone set. There is also a Lebandige Vergangenheit disc of his electrics (also essential IMO). Then there are the excerpts from Otello and Simon Boccanegra (on a long out of print Pearl), but by that point a lot of the dryness and flat singing is there.

N.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I have a two disc set of Martinelli's acoustics from Preiser (LV 89213), which is separate from their first release of his which just contained his early electrics (LV 89062) which I also have. They both sound very good. Haven't heard Marston's but I'm sure they are excellent as well. Will keep an eye out.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I have a two disc set of Martinelli's acoustics from Preiser (LV 89213), which is separate from their first release of his which just contained his early electrics (LV 89062) which I also have. They both sound very good. Haven't heard Marston's but I'm sure they are excellent as well. Will keep an eye out.


There are three labels that generally have the best sound when it comes to these recordings (with little in it between them) Romophone, Preiser (normally as part of their Lebandige Vergangenheit series) and Marston Records. Both Romophone and the latter use Ward Marston's excellent work.

N.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

The Conte said:


> There are three labels that generally have the best sound when it comes to these recordings (with little in it between them) Romophone, Preiser (normally as part of their Lebandige Vergangenheit series) and Marston Records. Both Romophone and the latter use Ward Marston's excellent work.


Some of the Romophones were transferred by Mark Obert-Thorn. His transfers sound somewhat different from Marston's, but are still very good. I don't know how does Preiser transfers, but they're mostly very well done.

There are some Pearl issues, if you can find them, that sound great - some of them are done by Marston, Obert-Thorn, or Seth Winner, whose work is also superb. And the Met's historic transfers have usually been done by Dan Hladik, and his transfers are also excellent.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> Some of the Romophones were transferred by Mark Obert-Thorn. His transfers sound somewhat different from Marston's, but are still very good. I don't know how does Preiser transfers, but they're mostly very well done.
> 
> There are some Pearl issues, if you can find them, that sound great - some of them are done by Marston, Obert-Thorn, or Seth Winner, whose work is also superb. And the Met's historic transfers have usually been done by Dan Hladik, and his transfers are also excellent.


Thanks for the correction and I agree about the Met transfers. I've found Pearl to be less reliable and their issues seem to be all out of the catalogue (you can get them used, of course, if you are patient). However, Pearl issued a lot that other labels didn't touch.

N.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

The Conte said:


> I've found Pearl to be less reliable and their issues seem to be all out of the catalogue (you can get them used, of course, if you are patient). However, Pearl issued a lot that other labels didn't touch.


A lot of the early Pearl issues were done by the "Haynes/Atwell" team, and those should be avoided if possible. Many of Pearl's bigger projects (Covent Garden on Record, Singers of Imperial Russia, the complete Zenatello) were done by Keith Hardwick; his work is decent, but I think that he's been surpassed by more recent engineers like Winner, Marston, and MO-T.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

Oh wow I just saw this thread. No one adores Martinelli more than I do.

Without a doubt the best source for Martinelli recordings is Immortal Performances. The complaint earlier in the thread that many of these recordings are late, is true, but many of them are gorgeous anyway, really all of them, old Martinelli is still great to me.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Love Martinelli!!!! A strange sound, at least in how it was recorded, but beautiful in the early days and almost always a music maker. He had just about the most compelling musical line I can think of. Except for the best early recordings in terms of beauty, he is THEE example in my ear of a voice whose sound won you by having " a call"..... A something, hard to pinpoint or describe, but which made you want to listen.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

So many great things about Martinelli I could go on and on but what he slays me with is his mastery of the breath and perfect phrasing, critical in Verdi.

Steane (I think, maybe Scott) made a disparaging remark about Martinelli’s being held up as a model by American critics. Well, not really, depends on whom you are comparing him to and in what music. He was definitely a post bel canto artist in the sense that Caruso was a transition from bel canto to “can belto” to paraphrase Henderson.

Martinelli is like Melchior, easy to forget or disparage because he is so understated in so many of his virtues. Breath control is easy to lose track of as a virtue, for example, no gulps sobs or accuti involved. But if you listen to the tenors of that period, Gigli, Pertile, Merli, Massini, Lauri-Volpi, all of whom were great singers, Martinelli stands alone in his mastery of Verdian precision coupled with a an unbelievable breath reserve.

But before one gets to his immortality, let’s just be frank he had a gorgeous voice from the start And was a fabulous singer from the earliest, admired for example by Caruso himself, who was an extremely fussy critic of tenors, in the bel canto mold. Martinelli‘s mastery of the breath was definitely a hold over from bel canto. That wasn’t his only quality, I’m just pointing to it as a super human quality I have heard in no one but the great Caruso himself.

Martinelli also shrewdly husbanded his resources, saving Otello for when his voice was mature. that didn’t stop him from being a great Radames. Listening to Immortal Performances’ string of Martinelli Aida’s of which there are 4, is highly instructIve. Does his voice become less supple with time? You betcha. But his consistency is amazing, he is the greatest Radames on record (whose performance we have in its entirety), to my mind. And the greatest Otello, I find only Tamagno to be comparable, and then of course his recordings are mere snippets.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

brescd01 said:


> Steane (I think, maybe Scott) made a disparaging remark about Martinelli’s being held up as a model by American critics.


I'm away from my copy but I believe that in The Grand Tradition, in which Steane often creates groups of singers chronologically and eventually pulls one out as a stand-out, Martinelli is heralded as one of his shining examples. 

A surprising discovery to me was how small - almost non-existent - Martinelli's Italian career was. Bergonzi always sights his influences and never mentions Martinelli who, one would think, would have been a great inspiration and role model. Martinelli's recordings must not have been available, or if they were, not affordable, in Italy back then.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

I am not sure what "an influence" is in singer terms. There are singers who claimed they actually imitated a particular singer's recordings (Lisitsian and Battistini for example). Also when a singer aspires to a particular sound, which moment in the singer's career are they aiming for? Gigli and Lauri-Volpi and Pertile were much more celebrated in Italy than Martinelli. I get what you mean in the sense that Bergonzi was also such a rhythmically precise singer as Martinelli, but I think that tenors of Bergonzi's generation were overwhelmingly influenced by early Gigli, in the sense that they aspired to his sound and repertoire.

Looking at critics' opinions of the period, rather than critics who were looking back, shows that at least amongst the English speaking critics, there was a rounded appreciation for all these tenors' virtues.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

brescd01 said:


> Oh wow I just saw this thread. No one adores Martinelli more than I do.
> 
> Without a doubt the best source for Martinelli recordings is Immortal Performances. The complaint earlier in the thread that many of these recordings are late, is true, but many of them are gorgeous anyway, really all of them, old Martinelli is still great to me.


This is true for the live complete opera recordings, but I think his studio recordings are best on Romophone and Preiser and the issues on those labels have issued more of them than Immortal Performances.

N.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

brescd01 said:


> I am not sure what "an influence" is in singer terms. There are singers who claimed they actually imitated a particular singer's recordings (Lisitsian and Battistini for example). Also when a singer aspires to a particular sound, which moment in the singer's career are they aiming for? Gigli and Lauri-Volpi and Pertile were much more celebrated in Italy than Martinelli. I get what you mean in the sense that Bergonzi was also such a rhythmically precise singer as Martinelli, but I think that tenors of Bergonzi's generation were overwhelmingly influenced by early Gigli, in the sense that they aspired to his sound and repertoire.
> 
> Looking at critics' opinions of the period, rather than critics who were looking back, shows that at least amongst the English speaking critics, there was a rounded appreciation for all these tenors' virtues.


Can’t find it right now but Caruso, Gigli, Schipa and Pertile are the ones Bergonzi said he studied. Caruso’s ability to support such hefty tones, Pertile’s interpretation, Gigli’s way of connecting soft to loud and Schipa’s inimitable way of creating such an impression without the god given voice of the others. Haven’t read it in awhile but I think that’s close to correct


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

No if you are just counting Immortal Performances has more Martinelli issues than Romophone and Preiser combined. With more planned. Sorry.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Romophone issued a marvelous 3-CD set of all of Martinelli's acoustic 78s, but I don't think there was a follow-up for the electricals; nor did Marston carry the Martinelli survey forward onto the Naxos label as he did for his Gigli survey. I don't believe there was any live Martinelli material on any of the labels Marston was associated with, and if any of the 78's were issued on Immortal Performances I presume they were limited to last-side filler: so, in the battle, if any, between the labels: apples and oranges. For obsessive non-Victor Martinelli issues one has to go to the pirate LPs of Eddie Smith, who fairly worshipped Martinelli and put out every scrap he could lay his hands on; usually a notorious bad-sound guy, he did not all that badly, sonically speaking, by Martinelli, and even lured him into recording studios in the 1950's and 1960's to record more in Martinelli's high old age. Still, terrible pressings, though.

Steane was indeed a big admirer of Martinelli, with the proviso that the actual _sound_ of the voice, which he came to love, would be a no-sale point for many listeners; in this respect he compares Martinelli to Callas, not meaning anything but a compliment to either. Somewhere he writes that it was so for him when as a youngster he scraped money together to buy a Martinelli 78 of a couple of songs, but that he came around to it eventually. In _Singers of the Century_, vol. 3, he adds:
"In my youth, to me personally his voice was the most exciting sound on earth: no _better _than Caruso's, of course, but more fascinating, the possessor of more secrets, a danger and a thrill in it, with a way of imprinting the memory, haunting the dreams, being even clearly audible in music one never heard him sing. But in youth, everybody I knew who had any interest in such things preferred Gigli, or, for that matter, Webster Booth. The fine long phrases, the fiery declamation: yes, in theory they could see all that in Martinelli's favour. The actual _sound_ was something at which they looked concerned, shook their heads, and after a while plugged their ears."

It must have been irascible old Scott who wrote that Martinelli was over-valued by American critics as opposed to British ones; in _Grand Tradition_ Steane suggests the opposite, positing that Martinelli was undervalued in the US because he was so ubiquitous at the Met, while in the UK there was a gap between 1919 and 1937 in his appearances at Covent Garden, giving him scarcity value.

Steane wrote the liner notes for the Romophone set, which are highly worth reading and are posted on the Naxos site:



Martinelli, Giovanni: Complete Acoustic Recordings 1912 -1924


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

Right the Immortal Performances issues are all or mostly live broadcasts not 78’s. They include what Eddie Smith issued but done properly. And your representation of Naxos and Romophone is accurate and actually it reminds me of my disappointment. I would love a series devoted to all of Martinelli’s 78’s to compare to their Caruso or Gigli or Ponselle editions. I also think your recollections of the critics is correct. But as I said they worry about appreciating or not appreciating or under appreciating, contemporary critics seemed to be more balanced.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

Hey I have a question. I was listening to the Marston Martinelli set and there is this ugly screeching sound in a recording of Recondita armonia. Does anyone know what that is? Is that a defect in the master? In my compact disc?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I started this thread and I am amazed at how it keeps getting attention. He strikes a nerve in people. I love him with Ponselle.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Love Martinelli. Very dramatic singer with a wonderful voice despite a few flaws which became more noticeable in later years. His Otello is unmatched even if Vinay and Del Monaco have more voice. A wonderful Enzo with Milanov, Radames with Cigna and a raving Pagliacci in 1934 which is unfortunately preserved in awful sound (I have no idea how the immortal performances transfer sounds). Always completely absorbed in the drama, one of my favourite tenors with a ringing voice which occaisionally reminds me of those early records of Tamagno, the first Otello.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

brescd01 said:


> No if you are just counting Immortal Performances has more Martinelli issues than Romophone and Preiser combined. With more planned. Sorry.


Of his STUDIO recordings?

N.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

Yes to the above! The Immortal Performances Pagliacci sounds very good but the second one with Bonelli even sounds BETTER. The first comes with a filler of Trovatore excerpts with Martinelli, the ones from the famous list performance with Rethberg.

Ponselle is amazing but there are only two preserved stage performances of her, Traviata and Carmen (multiple performances). I don’t really like her Carmen but I don’t like most Carmens. The Traviata needs no comment. Neither are with Martinelli. My profound regret is that there are only two complete roles preserved of Rethberg WITH Martinelli (La Juive is only excerpts from San Francisco). There are two choral pieces, Brahms’ A German Requium and Beethoven’s Mesa Solemnis with the two of them. All of these are available in “best possible” sound on Immortal Performances.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

brescd01 said:


> Yes to the above! The Immortal Performances Pagliacci sounds very good but the second one with Bonelli even sounds BETTER. The first comes with a filler of Trovatore excerpts with Martinelli, the ones from the famous list performance with Rethberg.
> 
> Ponselle is amazing but there are only two preserved stage performances of her, Traviata and Carmen (multiple performances). I don’t really like her Carmen but I don’t like most Carmens. The Traviata needs no comment. Neither are with Martinelli. My profound regret is that there are only two complete roles preserved of Rethberg WITH Martinelli (La Juive is only excerpts from San Francisco). There are two choral pieces, Brahms’ A German Requium and Beethoven’s Mesa Solemnis with the two of them. All of these are available in “best possible” sound on Immortal Performances.


I wish Immortal performances issued digital downloads like Pristine!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Op.123 said:


> I wish Immortal performances issued digital downloads like Pristine!


It’s probably ONLY downloads now with Pristine, alas!


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

brescd01 said:


> Hey I have a question. I was listening to the Marston Martinelli set and there is this ugly screeching sound in a recording of Recondita armonia. Does anyone know what that is? Is that a defect in the master? In my compact disc?


In the 3-CD Romophone? I checked CD 1 tracks 1 (Edison) and 8 (Victor) and there's nothing there unless it's really high-pitched, like above 15 K, and I've aged out of being able to hear it.


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## brescd01 (9 mo ago)

First of all, thank you for checking. That is very kind of you.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

He has a dedicated website crafted by a devoted fan which is worth exploring -






Giovann iMartinelli


Official website in memory tenor Giovanni Martinelli



www.giovannimartinelli.eu





The navigation section on the far left is not particularly well-designed but if you hover your cursor over each section, the white coloured text changes to black.

The site doesn't allow a copy and paste for copyright reasons but this section "Martinelli talks about Martinelli" is an interesting read -



Martinelli talks about Martinelli - Giovann iMartinelli


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Shaughnessy said:


> He has a dedicated website crafted by a devoted fan which is worth exploring -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Martinelli talking about Martinelli was wonderful!!!


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