# Skip Thread. Youtube led me wrong and can't fix



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Cambon was NOT Cambon.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Deleted post as a result of the cancelled competition...


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Hampson as usual sounds weak and uninvolved. Yes the voice is attractive and it sounds fine in the studio but it's an unfinished instrument and hardly captivates me enough to overlook those deficiencies.

Singher is certainly better but I don't love his tone for this, nor his slightly brash way with the music.

Cambon* is excellent. He has all the voice, is a sensitive artist and easily outclasses the other two. I hadn't actually heard this singer before and am glad to be introduced!

*edit: apparently Arthur Endrèze


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The voice to which I responded immediately was  that of Cambon, even though I had read the preceding post, by Shaughnessy, which I found amusing in its assessment of Singher in particular and puzzling in that of Cambon (I am not familiar with the Occitan accent). I agreed somewhat on Singher, who is also a born teacher. 

In any case, I am not moved by Hampson, though I have seen him in diverse assignments in San Francisco (even *Macbeth*!), in all of which he is, at least, professional. In this, he is more suited vocally than in other assignments. His video is mastered too low, while Cambon’s seems too high.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Shaughnessy said:


> 1) Hampson - without hesitation - Liked this version so much that I'm actually going to get the full recording - Beautiful voice - Seemingly effortless delivery - Clearly mastered technique - Superb phrasing, appears to be well-acted, fully engaged with the text - Can't detect much in the way of any flaws concerning the accent - Like the pacing, although I'm fairly certain that "too slow" is going be written somewhere by someone...
> 
> 2) Singher - good, not great - Does everything well but doesn't quite get past "workmanlike" - All craft, not much in the way of artistry - He's a real pro - does what needs to be done without the headaches that inevitably come with really talented people - He's who you get when you can't get who you want because they're already booked or who you would want to call when you finally decide to fire your lead because he keeps locking himself in his dressing room and he's sulking and crying and refusing to come out until you spend like 45 minutes telling him how much everyone loves him and then one day, you just get tired of it all and hire Singher who shows up, sings, collects his paycheck and actually leaves without stealing anything from wardrobe...
> 
> ...


...what. 

Okay, first of all, guys: That singer is NOT Charles Cambon! It's Arthur Endrèze. An American. So "clearly that of a native speaker" is definitely wrong. Also the "French version of an American southern accent" is ridiculous, given that he was trained in the standard stage French of the time, and his native American accent is from Chicago. And "not quite as 'posh'?" The American Southern accent is not posh!

What is an "over-emphasized accent"? That makes no sense. And enunciation is SUPPOSED to be clear and dramatic in stage singers.

So this contest needs to have the names changed in the poll, because while I'd vote for Cambon, he isn't present in this thread.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Not that I know Endreze, either, but if he’s the guy on that video, he's my guy!


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

PaulFranz said:


> ...what.
> 
> Okay, first of all, guys: That singer is NOT Charles Cambon! It's Arthur Endrèze. An American. So "clearly that of a native speaker" is definitely wrong. Also the "French version of an American southern accent" is ridiculous, given that he was trained in the standard stage French of the time, and his native American accent is from Chicago. And "not quite as 'posh'?" The American Southern accent is not posh!
> 
> ...


...what.

Okay, first of all guys. No one but the worst of fools - suffering from a form of delusional behaviour so profoundly intense in its delirium that it requires legally-mandated medical intervention - actually believes that Shaughnessy - of all people - had ever even heard of Charles Cambon much less that he would be able to actually identify him or distinguish him from Arthur Endrèze or literally any other opera singer whatsoever.

I'll explain the thought process behind my review with the caveat that the word "thought" needs to have the loosest interpretation imaginable for it to make any sense...

I looked up Charles Cambon on Wikipedia - He was born in Florensac which is in the far south of France thus my reference to his accent being "clearly that of a native speaker" - I decided to take a chance - to gamble recklessly - that someone who was born in a town which is near the furthest southern edge of France just a little to the left and just above Marseilles which is just a little to left of and just slightly above the Mediterranean Sea - would probably be a "native speaker".

The reference to the "French version of an American southern accent" was clearly intended to be a joke - as a linguistic reference point directed towards the southern part of France - Seriously, don't make me have to explain this joke - It would just be so disheartening - so discouraging - to think that I'm going to have to start dumbing down some of the jokes here - in "Opera" - of all places - like I have to do in the other sections of the forum for those who aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer..

And point out where - exactly - that I wrote that the "American southern accent is not post" - Go ahead... I'll wait... Okay, time's up - I'm tired of waiting because I never made that statement. You jumped to a conclusion which, much like jumping off of a cliff, rarely, if ever, ends well. But, as long as the subject has come up, I might as well weigh in... The American southern accent can be charming - it can be gentlemanly even _gallant_ - it can be pretty much anything - except "posh" - English RP is "posh" - Not even I think that a Dublin "D4" accent is post and I was actually born there. "Posh" actually means something specific - _elegant and stylishly luxurious_ - and it's a word whose meaning is such that it's not always meant to be in any way flattering as it tends to reflect affectation more than authentication. And so no, there really is no such thing as a "posh" American southern accent much in the same way that there really is no such thing as a posh Australian accent or Canadian accent or even an Irish accent - Cultivated, broad, and general? - Sure, no argument from me with those categories, they're acknowledged and accepted by all of us whose accents can be geographically identified to any one of the above locations - but "posh" - not even the most pretentious of us would ever claim that.

Arthur Endrèze is indeed an American - "He came to the attention of the conductor Walter Damrosch who advised him to go to France to improve his singing; he did so, enrolling at the American conservatoire at Fontainebleu where he studied under Jean de Reszke" starting in 1918. He didn't make his debut until 1925 - seven years later - at the Opéra de Nice as Don Giovanni. He stayed in France until 1940 when he left just before the German occupation which means he spent 22 years in France before leaving. Even I, someone who was born in Dublin and lived in Galway, Ireland - of all places - would probably.. okay, make that "maybe"... speak French fairly fluently although, if my English is anything to go by, it would never be spoken with anything other than an apparently unshakeable Irish accent. And so, apparently I'm guilty as charged of the high crime and misdemeanor of having inadvertently mistaken someone who spoke French literally every single day of every single week of every single month of every single year- twenty times over for - as "clearly that of a native speaker". I'm not a linguist - either professional or amateur - In fact, I had to look up the word "linguist" just to make sure that I was using the correct word. 

An "over-emphasized accent" is one in which excessive emphasis on placed upon the accent in use - An excellent example would be Joe Dolce's "Shaddap You Face" which was number one on the UK hit charts for four weeks in a row in 1981 - Overemphasize is a fairly common word - I'm kind of surprised that I have to actually define it as if it were somehow a newly minted word coined by me.

"_And enunciation is SUPPOSED to be clear and dramatic in stage singers_" - Thanks for stating the obvious and for providing an answer to a question that no one asked and "clear and dramatic" unfortunately seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Seriously, why would anyone - who possessed even a shred of everyday garden-variety good old fashioned common sense, think that someone who was born in Dublin and lived in Galway, Ireland - of all places - would be a reliable source on the accuracy of French accents?

Seriously, why would anyone - who possessed even a shred of everyday garden-variety good old fashioned common sense, think that someone who was responsible for inventing the "Shaughnessy Method" in which sopranos are judged with the criteria being - attractive, check - ample bosom, check - shapely bottom, check - ankles thinner than calves, check - would somehow magically write a review that was in any way intended to be analyzed with a level of over-bearing insufferably pedantic scrutiny that should rightfully be reserved for the latest issue of Opera Magazine?

This is absolutely the last of the jokes that I intend to explain - Honestly, it's just too disheartening - just too discouraging - to think that I have to do so... here... in "Opera" - of all places... What could very well be the last of the (relatively) sane sections of the forum.

I'm off to celebrate the holidays and will be gone for an extended period of time - which will range anywhere from "three months or so" to "forever" - starting on Christmas morning and so, someone else will have to step in here on my behalf should this discussion continue - Don't try to be funny - It's takes too long to explain the jokes and unless you warm up properly and do your stretching exercises beforehand, you could injure yourself...better yet, follow my example and just completely ignore anything that follows... You will be wasting moments of your life that you will someday look back upon and bitterly regret having lost.

*Nollaig Shona agus Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Daoibh*


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> ...what.
> 
> Okay, first of all guys. No one but the worst of fools - suffering from a form of delusional behaviour so profoundly intense that it requires forced medical intervention - actually believes that Shaughnessy - of all people - had ever even heard of Charles Cambon much less that he would be able to actually identify him or distinguish him from Arthur Endrèze or literally any other opera singer whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Thus spake the Encyclopaedia Shaughnessica or what?


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