# Bruckner - 4, 7, 8 & 9 - recommendations?



## apbsen (Jun 14, 2013)

Can anyone recommend recordings of Bruckner's 4, 7, 8 and 9th Symphony?

I'm interested in performances which focus on the "architectural" clarity of Bruckner's music...has a sense of lyricism rather than bombast or high drama...and has a "lightness of touch" rather than a slow tempo.

I have heard the performances by Celibidache, Giulini and von Karajan, but either they are too slow to my taste (so the music becomes one big "mass") or - in the case of von Karajan - too bombastic, "Wagnerian" and "brass-heavy".

Are* Jochum...Chailly...or Wand*...in the direction I'm looking for?

(I read a review of Chailly's 8th in Classics Today which mentioned that Chailly's 8th brings the strings to the fore rather than the brass...and reminded the reviewer of Sibelius - which sounds like what I'm looking for, also in the 4th, 7th and 9th!)

Any suggestions?

(I'd like to avoid Solti, Tintner and Maazel's recordings - "sorry" for being picky!)


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I'd warn you away from Jochum if you're thinking of buying, since he plays the slow parts too slowly and the fast parts too quickly (at least by comparison)--though, oddly, he claims to be trying to avoid just this fault in his liner notes. Boulez does a great 8th and Rattle is good in the 9th (though I don't really care for the completion--a "problem," in any case, easily remedied in itunes). I haven't heard Chailly myself, and appreciate the recommendation.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I think Wand might be great for you, he's more in the "objective" end of things, but in spite of that, seems to be able to capture the Brucknerian magic. His 8th gets a lot of praise, and I seem to remember that his 5th was great as well (although you weren't asking for recordings on the fifth - but you should have been!).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Get the 5th by Welser-Most and the LPO. It's a treasure, like the symphony itself.

This site might help you if you're interested in comparing timings or versions:
http://www.abruckner.com/


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## apbsen (Jun 14, 2013)

Thank you for your recommendations. I'll most definitely look into them - and I'll better get hold of a version of the 5th too!

I (along with many others, I'm sure) have been trying to find a way into Bruckner's music.

I had thought Celibidache and Giulini would have been perfect for me - the idea (in theory...) of expansive, slow, "poetic/spiritual" performances appealed to me.

But I find that Bruckner's music in their performances becomes too "massive" and - to my ears - impenetrable. And, as mentioned, in von Karajan Bruckner's music seems too majestic and bombastic.

I haven't been able to find recordings that emphasise "the human touch" in Bruckner: a sense of warmth...humanity..."poetry"..."lyricism"...without, of course, sacrificing Bruckner's intentions.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

apbsen said:


> Thank you for your recommendations. I'll most definitely look into them - and I'll better get hold of a version of the 5th too!
> 
> I (along with many others, I'm sure) have been trying to find a way into Bruckner's music.
> 
> ...


For the 4th, I enjoy Christoph von Dohnanyi's rendition of the standard version (I heard him conduct the work earlier this year with the Boston Symphony), but I also love Simone Young's rendition of the original version with the Hamburg Philharmonic.

For the 3rd, Simone Young again. I like Tintner here as well, but since you want an alternative, Young provided an excellent version of the only worthwhile version of this symphony.


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## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

apbsen said:


> And, as mentioned, in von Karajan Bruckner's music seems too majestic and bombastic.
> 
> I haven't been able to find recordings that emphasise "the human touch" in Bruckner: a sense of warmth...humanity..."poetry"..."lyricism"...without, of course, sacrificing Bruckner's intentions.


The two last Karajan records of Bruckner 7 and 8 with the VPO are in my opinion much better than his records with the BPO. They are less massive and more sublime and "spiritual". I am not a big fan of Karajan, but I listen to these records constantly.

My favorites:

4 - Wand, Bohm, Jochum, Celibidache
7 - Karajan (VPO), Bohm, Wand
8 - Karajan (VPO), Tennstedt, Wand (SNR)
9 - Giulini (VPO) for the three movements version (my favorite), Harnoncourt for the four movements version.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

I really enjoy all the symphonies performed by Georg Tintner and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (the Naxos collection).


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## Adeodatus100 (May 27, 2013)

It's Wand all the way for me. I once heard him conduct the 5th at the Proms: it's no overstatement to say it was overwhelming. In fact the final movement was terrifying. The raw emotional content of the music was coming out of the orchestra like arrows, and going straight through you.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Avey said:


> I really enjoy all the symphonies performed by Georg Tintner and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (the Naxos collection).


What I like about Tintner is, he lets the music speak for itself. He doesn't tweak the tempo according to his personal quirks.


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## apbsen (Jun 14, 2013)

What are your views on Chailly's recordings of Bruckner - how would you describe his approach and sound in the Bruckner symphonies?

And what (roughly) is the difference between Jochum and Wand's recordings of Bruckner - are they opposites or quite similar?

I've also heard a Bruckner recording by Otmar Suitner, but I don't remember it clearly. Would he be termed more "lyrical" than "bombastic" in his approach...or not?


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## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

I think it is a little strange to avoid "bombastic" and "grand" on Bruckner symphonies. Yes, there are conductors that over-emphasize these characteristics, but overall in my opinion these are characteristics of Bruckner music itself. Doesn't matter who conducts it, it will never be Sibelius.


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## apbsen (Jun 14, 2013)

I certainly agree - the sense of majesty and grandness is part of Bruckner's music, no matter which performance.

I'm just trying to find interpretations that also highlight other aspects of his music...and thereby find an "antidote" or a contrast to the recordings I've mostly listened to:

Primarily Celibidache and Giulini, whose tempos unfortunately are too expansive and "un-dynamic" to my ears


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Wand came to Bruckner relatively late in his career and although his NDR recordings are on the whole very good I think he excelled in these particular four with his later recordings with the BPO. It's a crowded field but these are wholeheartedly recommended.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2013)

I have Bohm/Karajan/Karajan/Giulini, respectively.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I really enjoyed the way the OP was phrased, and what I really looked forward to was seeing how Wand's recordings would be evaluated in that light.

Now arcaneholocaust (ok...) has finally mentioned Böhm's fourth, and so I have to ask: 

Böhm vs. Wand in Bruckner's Fourth? 

Keep in mind that we cannot say something like, "They both have their own merits" unless we give some indication as to what those merits actually are. Much, much better is to say "Wand is objectively better" without further explanation.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Böhm vs. Wand

I would take Böhm. Even though from what I remember he's slower than Wand...his melodic lyricism and flow to the music makes it a most enjoyable experience for me.

Overall I usually listen to Jochum's Dresden recordings when I'm in a mood for Bruckner. I just love the sound of the Brass and the late 70's sound in general.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Celibidache 

..........


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I have Sallawisch for 4, really good.
Karajan for 7&8 - two of his last recordings and superb with the VPO
Jochum for 9 - thrilling. Also rattle of the completed version which I have not really listened to. Must do so sometime in the near future.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

My first experience of Bruckner 7/8th symphonies was years ago and it was on vinyl-Bohm VPO and I still regard those particular performances as 'reference points'


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## CyrilWashbrook (Feb 6, 2013)

apbsen said:


> I certainly agree - the sense of majesty and grandness is part of Bruckner's music, no matter which performance.
> 
> I'm just trying to find interpretations that also highlight other aspects of his music...and thereby find an "antidote" or a contrast to the recordings I've mostly listened to:
> 
> Primarily Celibidache and Giulini, whose tempos unfortunately are too expansive and "un-dynamic" to my ears


I think I need a lie-down after reading that you haven't taken to Giulini, whose renditions of 8 and 9 surpass all other recordings I've heard. 

I haven't heard Chailly's full cycle, but I quite like his 7 with the RSO Berlin. Would also recommend Wand, generally. I'm a big fan of Giulini's tempo choices but Wand's 9 with the Kölner RSO manages to be more than ten minutes faster while still being perfectly paced to my ears.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

apbsen said:


> Can anyone recommend recordings of Bruckner's 4, 7, 8 and 9th Symphony?
> 
> I'm interested in performances which focus on the "architectural" clarity of Bruckner's music...has a sense of lyricism rather than bombast or high drama...and has a "lightness of touch" rather than a slow tempo.
> 
> ...


I have had Chailly's Cycle for a couple of years - one of the nice things about it is its excellent sound. I would agree that the Brass isnt as prominent as in say Jochum or Karajans cycles. With reference to timings I think Chailly is not too dissimilar to jochum but I would have to check that to be sure.
If you are looking for a nice cycle then I would recommend Chailly although I do prefer Karajan myself. Just remembered too that Chailly's cycle includes the Symphony No. 0 as well which a few other boxes dont.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I believe the Giulini 9th with Vienna is the very finest account of that work (at least of the 4 I own), and that Abbado's 4th with Vienna is better than Celibidache's and anyone's else's that I've listened to. Gunter Wand was a great interpreter, his 7th with Berlin is very, very good. The 8th, probably Van Karajan's with Vienna (not Berlin), and The 5th I love is the Thielemann with Munich.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Karajan 8 in Berlin - his first recording in 58 - is superbly long and gaunt.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I would suggest Roger Norrington's recordings of nos. 4, 7 and 9. (No. 4 is the original version from 1874 though).

Perhaps Celibidache's earlier recordings (released in a box set by Deutsche Grammophon) might be interesting too.

Also, the HIP recordings by Herreweghe for Harmonia Mundi (nos. 4 and 7).

I've heard great things about Paavo Järvi's 9th. Check out his 8th on Youtube.


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## FLighT (Mar 7, 2013)

4. Celibadache
7. Karajan, Harnoncourt
8. Karajan (EMI, DGG, DGG), Szell, Tennstedt, Harnoncourt
9. Walter


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Karajan's 7th with the VPO. It really is wonderful.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Why are you skipping over the 5th and 6th symphonies? These are major orchestral masterpieces. Once you answer this question, I'll be happy to offer you some recommendations.


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## Adeodatus100 (May 27, 2013)

The 6th was the first Bruckner symphony (recording) I ever heard, and it hooked me. I forget who the conductor was - might it have been Klemperer?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Neo Romanza said:


> Why are you skipping over the 5th and 6th symphonies? These are major orchestral masterpieces. Once you answer this question, I'll be happy to offer you some recommendations.


I have 5th with Dohnanyi - really lean and exciting. Tremendous.
6th with Tintner - fine performance. He was a good Brucknarian.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Adeodatus100 said:


> The 6th was the first Bruckner symphony (recording) I ever heard, and it hooked me. I forget who the conductor was - might it have been Klemperer?


If it hooked you, it was probably Klemperer. I heard his interpretation once and have had a hook in my jaw ever since.


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## davinci (Oct 11, 2012)

Furtwängler's Bruckner is unlike any other conductor's. It flows more freely than Jochum and his tempi are faster than modern interpretations. 
The recordings are from 1943 to 1951 and are nicely restored, but the boxed set is expensive. IMO, every Brucknerian should hear them. (There are some reasonably priced used sets.)









A joy to listen to although I also love Giulini and Wand's Bruckner.


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## davinci (Oct 11, 2012)

Adeodatus100 said:


> The 6th was the first Bruckner symphony (recording) I ever heard, and it hooked me. I forget who the conductor was - might it have been Klemperer?


Klemperer's 4th and 6th are among his best.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Walter, Karajan, Jochum. There you go.


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## mctous (Jul 19, 2013)

I recommend Berlin PO/Wand for the 1880 version of the 4th, with the Vienna PO/Bohm a close 2nd. (The 1874 version is an interesting curiousity.) Once again Berlin PO/Wand for the 7th, with the Chicago SO/Haitink a close 2nd. Toscanini made a wonderful but incomplete (they only ran one disc cutter!) 7th with the NYPO in 1935, available through Pristine Classical. I recommend Vienna PO/Karajan for the Haas 8th, Vienna PO/Giulini for the Nowak 8th, with the Suisse Romande O/Janowski a close Nowak 2nd. The 1944 Berlin PO/Furtwangler 9th remains my 1st choice, especially in Pristine Classical's excellent restoration, but if you need modern sound, I'd go with Columbia SO/Walter or Minnesota O/Skrowaczewski.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

A little off topic, but should be written.
8 > 7 > 5 > 6 > 9 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 1


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

apbsen said:


> Can anyone recommend recordings of Bruckner's 4, 7, 8 and 9th Symphony?....


4 - BPO/Jochum (DG)
7 - VPO/HvK (DG)
8 - BPO/Jochum (DG)
9 - Dresden/Jochum (EMI)

Enjoy! :tiphat:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> 4 - BPO/Jochum (DG)
> 7 - VPO/HvK (DG)
> 8 - BPO/Jochum (DG)
> 9 - Dresden/Jochum (EMI)
> ...


Jochum's Bruckner stands up well but the eighth was his Achilles heel I think. Try HvK with the VPO.


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## adrem (Jun 19, 2013)

What about wonderful conductor Lovro von Matacic? I heard a recording with Czech Philharmonic Orchestra of Bruckner 7 and it was absolutely stunning, one of the best version imo.


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

apbsen said:


> Can anyone recommend recordings of Bruckner's 4, 7, 8 and 9th Symphony?
> 
> I'm interested in performances which focus on the "architectural" clarity of Bruckner's music


Furtwängler! Most of the others just can not read it right.


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## Adeodatus100 (May 27, 2013)

What do we think of Herbert Blomstedt's conducting of Bruckner? I've heard a few extracts and was impressed.


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