# Barenboim the pianist........your opinions........



## Itullian

I really like his romantic approach and technique.

Your thoughts?

thank you


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## Polednice

I've heard him talk a great deal about Beethoven and find him very convincing, but I've met with a lot of antipathy about him that makes me unsure. I don't know why some people dislike him. I've been enjoying his Burckner symphonies recently.


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## itywltmt

I, personally, think more highly if Barenboim as a _pianist _than I do as a _conductor_. I own some 1970-80-ish recordings of him in both Brahms piano concerti (Mehta, NYP) and they are vey good. I heard his Chopin set and it is also very good. I heard his in concert with Dutoit/MSO in Beethoven's third PC and I was favourably impressed.


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## Ukko

I think he's more useful as a conductor/director than as a pianist. The difference is between OK and better-than-OK. In his OKness he is a better than average accompanist.


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## Itullian

just bought his Beethoven sonatas on dg. heard samples on Amazon and really liked them.

his songs without words is a classic. his Meistersinger is imho one of the best.


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## Vaneyes

More good than bad in both departments. Excelled in piano early on--Mozart, LvB, Schumann, and chamber with du Pre. More recently, conducting successes with Bruckner (BPO), Schumann and LvB (Staats. Berlin).


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## Guest

I saw Barenboim many times last year in Vienna at the Musikverein - both as Klavierspieler and Dirigent. I preferred his role as Dirigent and rank him amongst the worlds grosse Dirigenten!! It's his huge ego which gets people offside, as he's such a superstar. I love his theatricality as a Dirigent and he's actually a very short man. But charisma? Sure. So many Dirigenten seem to have had a 'charisma by-pass' (eg. Welser-Most) that it's refreshing to be in the company of a genuine personality. That's my take anyway...

Another Dirigent to light up the platform is Ton Koopman! Oh yes!!


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## joen_cph

As with many other musicians, there´s a huge difference between early Barenboim and later, and there is of course no Single Barenboim, the approach and mood of his performances varying a lot through the years. Overall, I personally find his later style as a pianist freer and more interesting than the often rather literal or even dry manner of many of his early recordings, heard in the EMI Beethoven sonatas as a contrast to the later DG issues. Some of his earlier DG recordings for instance can also be downright boring (Liszt, Mendelssohn), others seem to have more to say (Berg).

Curiously enough Celibidache actually once stated back in the 1970s (?) that he was by far the most talented pianist around, but on this I wouldn´t agree. 

I like the very Romantic approach of his later conducting, found in the Bruckner and Wagner recordings for instance, Furtwängler being his proclaimed idol, though it has occasionally also been too sloppy from time to time.


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## Moscow-Mahler

I already posted my short review of his concert in Berlin (Mahler and Mozart), which I had attended. I've heard his Beethoven symphonies 4th and 5th on a CD - and have mixed feelings. Esp. in Fifth - it has no aggressivenes, nor vitality for me. It is grand and ceremonial and serious, but not energetic enough. I think that I even do not like *the sound* of Staatskapelle Berlin - I need more transperency in sound.

I think e.g. Gewandhaus has an ideal sound now, but Staatskapelle sound is too dark, thick and dense.

I found Mozart with that sound quite unlistenable. And I am not a HIP-fanatic, I still like old Mozart with Krisp and Concertgebouw and piano concerti with Marriner and Brendel. I still like Haydn with Dorati...


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## Rasa

I saw him in Brussels last year, playing Schubert sonatas.

He has an extremely reasoned, intellectual approach to music. Not a single sonority escapes him, he is truly in control of what's going on. And it's exactly because of this restraint that those few moments in a work where he let's it be carried away (to the extend he wants it) are absolutely smashing.

Some people I spoke to about the concert felt that mr. Barenboim feared expression, I find expression in his reasoning and restraint.



Also, what do you people not understand about this thread's title?


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## Itullian

well, i ordered his Goldbergs, WTC 1 and 2, Diabellis. we'll see

i heard and really liked his Goldbergs and DG Beethoven sonatas.


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## Vaneyes

Kindly taking direction from stern disciplinarian Rasa, I'll recommend these "Barenboim the pianist" recs.


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## Rasa

"Disciplinarian"

I know people who would laught their *** off.


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## Itullian

Vaneyes said:


> Kindly taking direction from stern disciplinarian Rasa, I'll recommend these "Barenboim the pianist" recs.


thanks, the Liszt is available in a box with his Faust and Dante symphonies---rated highly.


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## Guest

I agree with Rasa's comments about Barenboim's pianism. He is not one bit flamboyant and the ultimate exegete am Klavier, in my not-so-humble opinion!! But I adore his conducting style, particularly with theatre works.


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## Itullian

Listening to his DG Beethoven set. BEAUTIFUL folks and sumptously DDD recorded. You really should get these.

It now joins my favorite sets of Arrau, Kempf and Gilels.
Samples on Amazon.

A real hidden gem.


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## Webernite

I find Barenboim uninteresting, to be honest. He's like a bad parody of Arrau.


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## Itullian

Webernite said:


> I find Barenboim uninteresting, to be honest. He's like a bad parody of Arrau.


thanks for your honesty. i like his warmth in these sonatas. very beautiful, touching.


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## Vaneyes

Itullian said:


> thanks for your honesty. i like his warmth in these sonatas. very beautiful, touching.


I can appreciate preference for different interps, though mine is for quicker tempi with smash-mouth emphasis.


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## TrazomGangflow

I have heard a few of his Mozart works and thoroughly enjoy them. He puts much emotion into his playing, therefore I enjoy it more than other's versions, whether the pieces are played totally correctly or not.


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## Guest

The thing which interests me is how many different responses are possible with the same pianist playing virtually the same work!! Amazing. I wonder how all that works and wouldn't it be great if studies were done on subjective responses!!


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## Sid James

Vaneyes said:


> Kindly taking direction from stern disciplinarian Rasa, I'll recommend these "Barenboim the pianist" recs.
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Heard that one and I think it's good, even though I'm not much into Chopin, only ocassionally...


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## Il_Penseroso

I don't like some of his interpretations, of course he's a good pianist, but he gonna prove himself as an all around man ! trying to play everything ! I think there are works that he can't play so charactristic like a real virtuoso.


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## Vaneyes

TrazomGangflow said:


> I have heard a few of his Mozart works and thoroughly enjoy them. He puts much emotion into his playing, therefore I enjoy it more than other's versions, whether the pieces are played totally correctly or not.


His Mozart Piano Trios (rec 2005) with Zlotnikov and Znaider was a pleasant surprise.


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## Itullian

yes, i like his romantic approach too

his Brahms piano concertos with Barbirolli is my favorite
his LvB concertos with Klemperer are great
his Mozart concertos with Berlin Phil on Teldec are awesome
and a classic Songs Without Words
and his DG LvB piano sonatas are wonderful.


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## Blancrocher

One Barenboim disk I've been very happy with that I don't often see mentioned is his recording of Liszt's Wagner transcriptions.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=146643


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## Bulldog

I find that Barenboim is an excellent pianist in Mozart and Beethoven. Unfortunately, his Bach is pretty bad - poor balance among voices and some ridiculous ornamentation - the man's clueless in Bach. Overall, I much prefer him as a conductor.


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## WJM

I really love Barenboim's Mozart and Beethoven. As for Bach I've heard his recording of Goldberg Varations and I think it's enjoyable enough to listen, but there are much better alternatives.


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## SteveSherman

He played the complete Beethoven sonatas here in Munich a few years ago. His approach is rather apollonian for my taste, but it was a well thought out and perfectly executed interpretation. I think there is no greater test of a performer than to present these 32 masterpieces, in all their variety, in a short period of time, and Barenboim passed the test with honors.


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## Skilmarilion

When it comes to Beethoven, I think he is a master interpreter. I have complete sets of his of both the sonatas and concerti. The pianism is all there coupled with a profound expressive poignancy. 

As a package of pianist/conductor, he is surely one of the most remarkable artists to have graced classical music.


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## Blancrocher

I recently discovered Daniel Barenboim's website, which has an interesting journal. I've read a few of the essays--on Carter, Boulez, and Don Giovanni--and have enjoyed the combinations of introductory musical notes and personal anecdotes.

For those interested: http://www.danielbarenboim.com/journal.html


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## Op.123

I can't stand any of it


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## aajj

As fine as Barenboim is as a pianist, I _always _find others who do it better.


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## Albert7

I really enjoy Barenboim both as pianist and conductor honestly. Perhaps not the master but he has some awesome recordings particularly the ones with Du Pre.


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## Pip

I have never known a musician to attract so much positive and negative feelings as DB.
He is without doubt one of the greatest Wagner conductors of the last 50 years. How many of his recordings would have been much better appreciated if only he had had better casts. His Bayreuth Ring is still the best video recommendation, and one of the best of all the Rings performed there since 1951.

As for the symphonic repertoire, he really is just as great.
Barenboim the pianist - one of the greats - no more to be said.

How many of his detractors confuse his personality with his musicianship?
I have been enjoying his performances as a pianist since I first saw him in London in the Sixties, and as a conductor for almost as long.
Long may he continue.


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## 44523

Forty years ago I was conned by the publicity and agreed with the classical establishment that he was a great interpreter of Beethoven. Now I think that he has great virtuosity, an incredible memory, and that he plays very badly, with little understanding of the music in which he is supposed to be a great expert.


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## joen_cph

I prefer his later decades as a conductor, rather than his pianism. Such as his late Bruckner and Wagner recordings, at times uneven, at times sublime.


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## Pugg

He's a great pianist, his Beethoven concertos on EMI are sublime, as well as his piano sonatas on EMI .
His Mozart concerto's are one of my very favourite. ( first recording):tiphat:


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## DavidA

Whatever you think of DB one must acknowledge his astounding musicianship and hard work. How he has managed to combine so many conducting appointments AND keep his piano technique in such good shape is quite something. I heard more of the young DB and enjoyed his Beethoven sonatas which are anything but boring. His Beethoven concertos with Klemperer are very interesting and his early set of Mozart piano concertos are really fresh. 
His later work for DG I don't know well apart from a set of Chopin Nocturnes which didn't do it for me.
I have his Ring cycle (DVD) and it is superbly conducted as is his Parsifal, which I also possess. I can never quite see how a Jewish conductor can be so enthusiastic about a composer who was such an avowed anti-semite but each to his own. 
I heard his recent Brahms 1 with Dudamel and felt his technique was perhaps not what it was.
But one of the greatest all-round musicians today.
About his political statements no comment!


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## WaterRat

I like listening to him talk about music rather than actually play it.

A later rescreening of the original 'Barenboim On Beethoven' series helped me to discover classical music. However, I was disappointed when I subsequently purchased a CD of the Beethoven sonatas. His conducting, also, has failed to impress me, and I now largely bypass him entirely.


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## Pugg

So many people so many opinions :devil:


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## Animal the Drummer

WaterRat said:


> I like listening to him talk about music rather than actually play it.
> 
> A later rescreening of the original 'Barenboim On Beethoven' series helped me to discover classical music. However, I was disappointed when I subsequently purchased a CD of the Beethoven sonatas. His conducting, also, has failed to impress me, and I now largely bypass him entirely.


He's OK talking about music. His pronouncements on other subjects, while made for the best of motives, tend to be wordy and rather precious, IMHO at any rate.

His musicmaking I find rather hit-and-miss. Some of his performances are great - I love his youthful interpretations of Beethoven's "Pastoral" sonata and Brahms' D minor concerto for example, and as a conductor he makes Bruckner's 8th symphony (a piece which can sometimes outstay its welcome as far as I'm concerned) come alive in a way I haven't heard elsewhere. Others, though, seem to me to be frankly ordinary and would probably slip by unnoticed if they hadn't been the work of someone with a big name.


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## majlis

I think he's mediocre, as a pianist and as conductor. Second class easy.


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## Pugg

majlis said:


> I think he's mediocre, as a pianist and as conductor. Second class easy.


And this is based upon........


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## dieter

DavidA said:


> Whatever you think of DB one must acknowledge his astounding musicianship and hard work. How he has managed to combine so many conducting appointments AND keep his piano technique in such good shape is quite something. I heard more of the young DB and enjoyed his Beethoven sonatas which are anything but boring. His Beethoven concertos with Klemperer are very interesting and his early set of Mozart piano concertos are really fresh.
> His later work for DG I don't know well apart from a set of Chopin Nocturnes which didn't do it for me.
> I have his Ring cycle (DVD) and it is superbly conducted as is his Parsifal, which I also possess. I can never quite see how a Jewish conductor can be so enthusiastic about a composer who was such an avowed anti-semite but each to his own.
> I heard his recent Brahms 1 with Dudamel and felt his technique was perhaps not what it was.
> But one of the greatest all-round musicians today.
> About his political statements no comment!


His political statements are one of the things I really like about him. I think he's a very good conductor, a very good pianist - though I couldn't stand his DG Beethoven set, way too may bung notes, way too fast and carefree - and if more Jewish musicians had the guts to make the type of political statements he makes - Anton Kuerti is another one - more people might actually listen and take the time and the trouble to understand where he's coming from.


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## CDs

I'm looking to add some of Barenboim's cycles of Beethoven Symphony's and Mozart's Piano Concertos. But I see that there are many box sets to choose from. Does anyone know if they are the same performances just released by different labels and times?

For Mozart's PC sets I see some released in 1998, 2005, 2014 & 2016. Is one better than others?

I was leaning toward this one for the Beethoven Symphonies:








Thanks!


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## pcnog11

Certain Barenboim is unique, he is very forward thinking and can multi-task to be a soloist and conductor at the same time. I have a set of DVD - Beethoven 5 PC with him conducting at the keyboard. Only a few in the world currently can match what he has accomplished. However, I prefer him being a conductor than a soloist because the ability to draw the best out of an orchestra surprised me most of the time.


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## Guest

I'm very eager to hear his new DG recording:



















Here's an article about the instrument:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...l-new-piano-design-ive-fallen-in-love-with-it

Some of those pieces are very difficult, so it will be interesting to see how he copes with them at his age.


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## pcnog11

Barenboim is forward thinking and innovative in his approach to music. He is always exploring new ideas and ways to perform and convey musical ideas. Some like him, some do not. I like his innovative attitude but some classical music lovers may not be following innovation as much as others would like. Imagine, if we did not have Bach, Mozart or Beethoven that keep innovating and challenging previously established ideas, what kind of music could we be listening today?


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## lextune

Barenboim, like him or not, is an unassailable pianist. He was one of the greatest child prodigies of all time. 

Furtwängler called him a phenomenon, which he was. By the age of 13 he had played across all of Europe, for, and with, all the greatest conductors of the day. By the age of 15 he had all 32 Beethoven Sonatas in his repertoire. 

This is not to say that being a prodigy makes one a great pianist automatically. I am not a huge fan of many of his interpretations, but it is impossible to say that Barenboim is anything but a serious, important, pianist.


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## lextune

An excellent interview:


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## TSWO

Ukko said:


> I think he's more useful as a conductor/director than as a pianist. The difference is between OK and better-than-OK. In his OKness he is a better than average accompanist.


Saying that about a man that recorded the 32 sonatas of Beethoven twice in his lifetime, and that has recorded Scriabin's 9 sonatas almost sight-reading through them... 

He's wonderfull as both a conductor as well as a pianist imho. And phenomenal as a sight reader, overall musicality, memory, stamina etc. One problem is that he is a Jew so everyone thinks that he is famous because of that and not because of his ability/effort/talent. And have to admit that as he gets older he seems not to care too much about his conducting, and tries to promote his trully mediocre son as a musician... But in 50 years from now who will remember any of that?


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## Animal the Drummer

Barenboim's had an amazing pianistic career, but nobody's denying that. What Ukko seems to me to be saying is that nowadays the musical quality of what he produces is greater when he conducts than when he plays the piano. I agree, and would add that Barenboim's not alone in this - the same seems to me to be true of Ashkenazy for example.

Incidentally I don't think the fact that Barenboim is Jewish has anything to do with any of this.


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## Crystal

Itullian said:


> I really like his romantic approach and technique.


So do I! He knows music in a really high level. Love his playing.


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## Holden4th

Barenboim has recorded the LvB PS 3 times, twice on LP/CD for EMI and DG and on DVD for DG. I think very highly of his EMI set. He had an approach that was a little different from the mainstream and for many of the sonatas it worked very well. 

The early and middle period works were the best but he did lose it somewhat on the late works and maybe his lack of maturity was the reason. That said, his Waldstein Rondo, where he took the risk and slowed down the music worked wonderfully. He also did the same with the Arietta from Op 111 and by doing so created a sublimely ethereal effect. Only Arrau has done it better.

His Lieder Ohne Worte are simply stupendous. His Mozart PS should be included and even though I prefer Klara Wurtz and Lili Krauss this is still an excellent set (and full marks for including the variations).

So I rate Barenboim very highly as a pianist. If he was coming to my town to play I would certainly go to hear him,


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## Pugg

Holden4th said:


> Barenboim has recorded the LvB PS 3 times, twice on LP/CD for EMI and DG and on DVD for DG. I think very highly of his EMI set. He had an approach that was a little different from the mainstream and for many of the sonatas it worked very well.
> 
> The early and middle period works were the best but he did lose it somewhat on the late works and maybe his lack of maturity was the reason. That said, his Waldstein Rondo, where he took the risk and slowed down the music worked wonderfully. He also did the same with the Arietta from Op 111 and by doing so created a sublimely ethereal effect. Only Arrau has done it better.
> 
> His Lieder Ohne Worte are simply stupendous. His Mozart PS should be included and even though I prefer Klara Wurtz and Lili Krauss this is still an excellent set (and full marks for including the variations).
> 
> So I rate Barenboim very highly as a pianist. If he was coming to my town to play I would certainly go to hear him,


The Mozart piano concertos on EMI/ now Warner are still in my top 10. Sublime playing and conducting.


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