# American chamber string pieces



## clavichorder

It just occurred to me to search for the existence of chamber music by William Schuman, who I am for reasons I can't really explain or even understand very well, very obsessed with at the moment. And I found a string quartet. Its a crackly old recording and I don't have much time to evaluate it, but here it is




What are other good American chamber string pieces? What do you know of W. Schuman's chamber music?


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## jurianbai

well, that clip maybe not sounds to my preferred style ;p, but thanks for bringing out W. Schumann here, I haven't know him well.

I like piece with folk tune implemented, so for American chamber piece, or string quartet, I recommend you Charles Ives two string quartets. Also George Antheil's string quartet. And string quartets of Ernest Bloch, a swiss-born American citizen.


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## Guest

I will second Ives' 2 string quartets. Another one that I highly recommend is Barber's String Quartet, which includes the incredible Adagio in its first incarnation, before it was orchestrated and came to be known as "Adagio for Strings." IMHO, the string quartet version is much better.


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## Head_case

clavichorder said:


> It just occurred to me to search for the existence of chamber music by William Schuman, who I am for reasons I can't really explain or even understand very well, very obsessed with at the moment. And I found a string quartet. Its a crackly old recording and I don't have much time to evaluate it, but here it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are other good American chamber string pieces? What do you know of W. Schuman's chamber music?


I only know him from his Orpheus with Lyre works by the Concord String Quartet (a fabulous American string quartet group from the 70's) and the older Juilliard historical recordings. Yours has a period charm - I really like the expansive mood, swelling and agitating in development in the movement you've listed.

As far as I know, Schuman was well respected - I got his works at the time of his birthday bash a year ago. Not sure when this piece was written, but it has the threatening modernity of the 21st century written all over it. I really enjoyed it, and his style is very striking for me.

Other string quartets from the same continent - Katherine Hoover's works; and yes - Ernest Bloch's works earn my votes. Gloria Coates; Wolpe, Crumb and other late mid-21st century works can be a bit wacky strange, rather than ethereal and emotional like Schuman's works. I'm still struggling to get into their string quartets (whereas their solo instrument repertoire, like Crumb's Cello Sonata is very approachable for me). Henri Lazarof, Christos Hatzis (Greek born, maybe Canadian - is that close enough?!) and the new wave Murray Schafer - I like these contemporary composers a lot, but they don't have share the elegiac beauty of Schuman's work which you've pointed to here. That would probably bring me round to thinking Bloch's string quartet oeuvre would please you, if you aren't able to find the rest of Schuman's string quartets works (not released as a set as far as I know), and Rochberg, if you are more daring and looking for a more creative edge.

Here are some of my favourite American releases:


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## Sid James

*Elliott Carter's *_String Quartet #1_ (1951) is a favourite of mine, "atonal" but not hard to follow, he takes the jagged theme played by the cello at the start right through the work. The slow movement speaks to me of a vast epic landscape (he composed this SQ in the Arizona desert) & the finale has a kind of lyricism almost reminiscent of Schubert. Carter studied many string quartets stretching back to the Classical Era, and it shows in the strength of craftsmanship and expressive power of this work. His other 4 string quartets are harder by comparison, I'm only beginning to get into them now after having spent time getting to know the first one for over a year. Basically, I think he's a very fine composer of string quartets, and also composed many solo instrumental works for string instruments...


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## Sid James

*@ clavichorder* - I just finished listening to the W. Schuman SQ #3 you posted above. I liked the strong sense of counterpoint - I think that like I mentioned Carter doing above, it is undoubtedly the case that Schuman also went back to study SQ's of the past. However, I found this work quite dark, which doesn't match the headspace I'm in at the moment, but that's another matter, not related to it's quality which I though was good. In terms of style, it reminded me quite a bit of Walton's SQ in A minor (1947) which is a huge fav of mine...


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## jurianbai

well, I am not really understand and enjoy Elliot Carter (my disc is the one by the Composer String Quartet) 

Sid, maybe you should try Roger Session string quartet which I also find complex atonal. Never really get into that style also. I preferred Antheil simple melodious quartet.


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## Sid James

jurianbai said:


> well, I am not really understand and enjoy Elliot Carter (my disc is the one by the Composer String Quartet)


That's okay. Even though I'm into the "atonal" things, it's taken me a while to get into Carter's SQ's after the first one, even though that one kind of "grabbed" me pretty quickly. These things take time for me, but I think that the first quartet is not as "way out" as the others sound to me (although his 2nd & 5th are beginning to be more clear to me now, but it's early days yet!).



> ...Sid, maybe you should try Roger Session string quartet which I also find complex atonal. Never really get into that style also. I preferred Antheil simple melodious quartet.


You're spot-on there, I am planning to get some of Sessions' chamber music, there's a good Naxos disc of some of those. I have in recent weeks connected with his piano sonata #2 (atonal but not yet serial, composed in 1946), so it won't be long before I get that disc. As for Antheil, I like his stuff too, kind of neo-classical, I've come across his SQ somewhere, but I don't own it on disc. Speaking of which, clavichorder, or anyone here, this one looks to be a good collection (full info HERE) -


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## Ukko

Benjamin Lees. Somewhat harder to 'track' than Johan Strauss, but I was able to catch on - which strongly suggests that anyone can.


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## Sid James

Hilltroll72 said:


> Benjamin Lees. Somewhat harder to 'track' than Johan Strauss, but I was able to catch on - which strongly suggests that anyone can.


Yes, an interesting composer, have the Naxos disc with 3 of his SQ's, the 5th one is my favourite. In a part, a bird-song like duet between the two violins, reminiscent of Messiaen's interests, very high register, but melodic. This SQ also won an award in the USA...


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## itywltmt

Two of my favourites:

1 - *Ives' piano trio *dated 1904. Here's a link to a decent "amateur" performance: http://web.mit.edu/ckcheung/www/PerformanceRecordings.htm

2 - *Gershwin's Lullaby,* which was originally written as a string quartet, and is often heard in a "string orchestra" setting. The main theme of the Lullaby is used by Gershwin in a one-act "Opera Afro-Americain" called _Blue Monday _(librfetto by Buddy Da Silva), which was part of (I believe) the *George White Scandals *of 1924 (?) It certainly was ahead of its time, and was pulled from the Scandals after one (or two) performances.

What is of note here is that the man in the orchestra pit for the performance was *Paul Whiteman*, who then asked Gershwin to contribute a piece for an upcoming "concert event" at the Aeolian Hall. And, as Paul Harvey used to say, "You Know the Rest of the Story".


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## Quartetfore

It was interesting to see Ernest Bloch show up on this thread. If ever there was a case of "Fame is Fleeting" he is one. Back in 1957 Penguin books published a paper back titled "Chamber Music" edited by Alec Robertson. Chapters were devoted to all the brand names, as well as the "moderns". Bartok had a chapter (the best I ever read about the quartets), Hidermith and 




















It was interesting to see the name Ernest Bloch show up in this thread. If ever the cliche "Fame is Fleeting" were true this is the case with Bloch and his chamber music. Back in 1957 Penguin Books published a Paper Back titled "Chamber Music". Experts in the field wrote short articles about the genre. All the "Brand Names" were there, as well the Modern composers of the time. Bartok had a seperate section, Hindermith and Schoenberg shared a section under Modern German Music, and Bloch had a section to himself. Today, who plays the the Bloch quartets? As far as I know there has not been a new recording of these works in twenty years. I don`t know the reason for this, since they are interesting and if given time rewarding. Oh yes, Shostakovich has paragraph or two under Russian quartets, but at the time he had only composed two quartets. The book was wrong in this case--he had written at least four.


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## Quartetfore

I see that my post had trouble, scroll down for the complete post.


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## Head_case

> It was interesting to see the name Ernest Bloch show up in this thread. If ever the cliche "Fame is Fleeting" were true this is the case with Bloch and his chamber music. Back in 1957 Penguin Books published a Paper Back titled "Chamber Music". Experts in the field wrote short articles about the genre. All the "Brand Names" were there, as well the Modern composers of the time. Bartok had a seperate section, Hindermith and Schoenberg shared a section under Modern German Music, and Bloch had a section to himself. Today, who plays the the Bloch quartets? As far as I know there has not been a new recording of these works in twenty years. I don`t know the reason for this, since they are interesting and if given time rewarding. Oh yes, Shostakovich has paragraph or two under Russian quartets, but at the time he had only composed two quartets. The book was wrong in this case--he had written at least four.


The mood for appreciating public music certainly turned very quickly - I wonder whether many peri-war or post war composers, were eclipsed into obscurity, partly because their romantic and tendencies towards sweet music making, was too detached and remote (surely people would turn to romantic music for escapism, in the post war era? ).

The converse is probably true: the post-war sentiment... probably exhausted classical audiences, and they wanted to listen to Mozart and Beethoven, and safer classical quartets, no?

Then again ... I am often reminded.... my taste in contemporary chamber music ...is definitely a fringe activity. I get people in my car screaming at me: "Turn that zhhit OFF!!!" And it's just George Crumb being benign 
Bloch...intrigued me as Antheil and Sessions' teacher. I don't appreciate Antheil as much as his reputation should entail....but I do like a lot of the contemporary composers' teachers. Sometimes the teachers are better than their students. Nadia Boulanger and her prodigy spring to mind 

Yes you're right - my Bloch recordings are by the Griller Quartet. The playing is exquisite and unparalleled. When a group like this produces such magnificent music ... no lesser group would dare try a take on it without enduring scorn! True that Bloch's post-war music was more tense, or agitated; in fact, only his first string quartet hails before the second world war: it was written during the first world war.


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## Head_case

What are the Hermann and Evens quartets like?

I have too much Glass works from my Habitat era when minimalism was all the rage...even when there was minimal content in it.

Does no one speak of Crawford-Seeger's epic string quartet anymore...? I like her string quartet work a lot.


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## jurianbai

Quartetfore said:


> It was interesting to see the name Ernest Bloch show up in this thread. If ever the cliche "Fame is Fleeting" were true this is the case with Bloch and his chamber music. Back in 1957 Penguin Books published a Paper Back titled "Chamber Music". Experts in the field wrote short articles about the genre. All the "Brand Names" were there, as well the Modern composers of the time. Bartok had a seperate section, Hindermith and Schoenberg shared a section under Modern German Music, and Bloch had a section to himself. Today, who plays the the Bloch quartets? As far as I know there has not been a new recording of these works in twenty years. I don`t know the reason for this, since they are interesting and if given time rewarding. Oh yes, Shostakovich has paragraph or two under Russian quartets, but at the time he had only composed two quartets. The book was wrong in this case--he had written at least four.


well, according to the book Cambridge guide to string quartet, for America entries there were enough composers to bring on. Names like Milton Babbit, Roy Harris, Quincy Porter, Walter Piston, and Crawford-Seeger etc, are the one I familiar but yet to give it a try.

Both Hermann and Ralph Evans are enjoyable to me and give me a clue how 21st composer can do without going "fringe". But the Glass SQ sample on that disc I did not satisfied, it is.... too minimalist.

and well, that Crawford-Seeger's is ... too fringe at the moment.


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## Quartetfore

From what I know of the composers you listed, Milton Babbit would be the most "modern" of the group. The others such as Walter Piston and Roy Harris wrote in a more popular style.


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## Head_case

> and well, that Crawford-Seeger's is ... too fringe at the moment.


Haha. No way - that's 1931 - that's *well* within my comfort zone for 21st century repertoire 

The Milton Babbitt and Perle string quartets are on the other side of my Crawford Seeger LP (The Composers Quartet). I prefer the Crawford-Seeger to them. I see it as a 'Crawford Seeger' album, rather than the other two.

Yeah - a lot of us seem to agree that Glass .... is transparently hollow.

I've got so much music to look out for now - the Hermann and Evans had better live up to their reputation!


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## Ukko

Head_case said:


> What are the Hermann and Evens quartets like?
> 
> I have too much Glass works from my Habitat era when minimalism was all the rage...even when there was minimal content in it.
> 
> Does no one speak of Crawford-Seeger's epic string quartet anymore...? I like her string quartet work a lot.


For me the Crawford-Seeger quartet is well on the gotta-pay-attention side, but well worth the effort. Whenever I see 'Glass' mentioned as a surname I think _Hugh Glass_. Not the same bloke at all.


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## Sid James

Head_case said:


> ...
> 
> Yeah - a lot of us seem to agree that Glass .... is transparently hollow...


Not me, I like the string quartet named "Company," my only problem with it is that it's too short!...


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## GoneBaroque

*Paul Creston*

This almost applies to the spirit, if not to the letter of the thread. The italian-American Composer Paul Creston made an arrangement of the third movement of his string quartet as "Gregorian Chant for String Orchestra. The music is based on the plainchant 'Pange Lingua Gloriosi' even though the chant is never quoted. It is played by the New York Chamber Orchestra under Arthur Lief.


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## Head_case

Sid James said:


> Not me, I like the string quartet named "Company," my only problem with it is that it's too short!...


It's very listenable actually! But yes ... it is too short.

I think Glass would be too challenged, and the music would be dire, if he tried to extend it any longer - perhaps best kept short and enjoyable, rather than long and protracted minimalism, like some of his other works which are indecipherable from one another....!


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## Sid James

Well, I like what I've heard by Glass so far, but I haven't heard any of his "marathon" works (eg. _Music in 12 Parts_, but I want to get it sometime). You said earlier that minimalism is devoid of content, well, I think that's basically what it's about, no content except for the listener to perceive/make up, not imposing things but letting them happen...


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## Head_case

Have you heard any of his non-minimalistic titled works like Koyaanisquatsi or Metamorphosis I - it's seems ironic that he has to resort to foreign language devices or transformational process names to name something ... which feels less substantial than its title. 

Although not American - I wonder what you make of the Part; Tuur; Gorecki, Vasks' minimalism. 

I find something more profoundly alluring in any of these composers .... compared to Part. 

Maybe its their foreign sounding names lol. 

I do like minimalism though. Gorecki's choral works started it for me. In terms of American minimalism ... maybe Glass' output without the cultural/spiritual intensity of the use of silence, rather than throwing open a tabula rasa for the listener....is an act of a completely different order of music making, than his Baltic/European counterparts...?

Having said as much, Vasks' Fratres, must be the most tedious arrangement ever to span string quartet; chamber orchestra; orchestra and vocal choir I've ever come across.


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## Sid James

I was just listening to Philip Glass' solo piano album last night, which I reviewed HERE. In that, I did say that I liked the shorter one movement piano works on the album much better than his _Metamorphosis_ series. I agree with you on that point & I'd add that the other two works were more kind of melodic. I haven't heard _Koyaanisquatsi _or his other film scores (or operas), except the short _Facades_ for chamber orch., extracted from one of the films.

I don't remember hearing any of the European "holy" mimimalists' string quartets, though I am familiar with some of the other works of Part, Gorecki, Tavener. Gubaidulina & Rautavaara are kind of on the sidelines of that group, but they come across to me as more kind of "new age." It really depends on my mood in terms of which ones I like or listen to, the Euro or USA minimalists. I think Steve Reich is the most interesting and variable of what I've heard of his music. He hasn't just stayed in the same kind of style like some of the others, he's changed & adapted to new things, new ideas & trends, etc. I also like how he engages with history, eg. with the Holocaust in _Different Trains_ & with this new piece about 9/11, the twin towers tragedy...


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## Head_case

Piano .... ! 

Alas...that's not an instrument I enjoy in any measure, except perhaps closing the lid on pianist' fingers 

I know the works of Part, Gorecki, Taverner and Reich from the Kronos Quartet alone. Gubaidulina from the Danish Quartet discs, and Rautvaara, from a library disc which I returned very quickly. I'll have to look out for more of Steve Reich's works then. He sounds like a fascinating composer. Maybe being in Europe, I have a Euro-centric tendency - I tend to appreciate Gorecki, Gubaidulina, Sariaaho much more than the rest of the holy minimalists. I used to find their choral works very powerful although stopped listening to choral music for some time.... 

Do you have the Borreomeo Quartet recordings at all? I'm always very cautious about acquiring a composer's works without knowing the actual string quartet group.


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## Head_case

GoneBaroque said:


> This almost applies to the spirit, if not to the letter of the thread. The italian-American Composer Paul Creston made an arrangement of the third movement of his string quartet as "Gregorian Chant for String Orchestra. The music is based on the plainchant 'Pange Lingua Gloriosi' even though the chant is never quoted. It is played by the New York Chamber Orchestra under Arthur Lief.


Interesting to see his music is based on Aquinas' text. He does have a score out:

http://www.schirmer.com/default.aspx?TabId=2420&State_2874=2&workId_2874=27085

But I don't know what the original string quartet sounds like, although it seems to share some affinities with a disc release by the Kronos Quartet of 'Early Music' - that is, choral and secular early music set to string quartet. That is one of their better releases for me.


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## Llyranor

DrMike said:


> Another one that I highly recommend is Barber's String Quartet, which includes the incredible Adagio in its first incarnation, before it was orchestrated and came to be known as "Adagio for Strings." IMHO, the string quartet version is much better.


I think I still prefer the string orchestra version, but the SQ is great. Really like the outer movements, too.


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## Head_case

The string orchestra version definitely has its charms.

Although my tastes probably verge towards the more purist side of the string quartet genre, there are some very intriguing reinterpretations of string quartets in the vein of the Barber movement:










The homogeneity of the increased number of string instruments, does indeed smooth out the natural (individual) tones and resonances of the individual instruments in a string quartet. It does indeed remove something of the intensity and individuality of a string quartet medium for me, but it does add a smoother, and more gentle, if not flowing and swirling river like aural landscape.


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