# Schubert's last Quartet



## petter

When i started listening to Schubert's string quartets fifteen years ago, it always was the No.12-14 and of course the quintet. For some reason, i did not know the No.15 in G existed. 6 months ago i stumble upon it and listened a couple of times. I was overwhelmed by the powerful force it had. I am no expert in string quartets, but i feel it is something very different about it, except the choice of key, being between the No.14 d-minor and the quintet.
Can someone shed some historic light on this work, or have some other opinion of it. Personally i think i'ts a remarkable work. :tiphat:


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## ScipioAfricanus

don't worry, after repeated listenings it will become boring and you will resort to listening to Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn's quartets. The problem with the number 15 is that it is not perfect, it was moving into a direction that Schubert hadn't properly mastered. If Schubert had written 2 more quartets he would have mastered this new direction and the last quartet would have been the supreme in the genre.


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## Quartetfore

No question that it is a "different" work than the 13th and 14th quartets. It seems to me that the work that express`Schuberts deepest fellings. Its lack of live performance might be traced to it length, but there are several very good recordings


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## Novelette

The final movement always struck me as second-rate Beethoven; this is not a reaction I typically have to anything Schubert composed. Perhaps I just don't "get it", but my experience was exactly that just laid out by Scipio: I quickly became bored with the whole of it and turned back to Beethoven, Mendelssohn, etc.

I may yet learn to enjoy it.


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## Quartetfore

I can`t say that I listen to it more then once or twice a year, but I do think that it will repay an effort to come to grips with it.


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## grocklin

Personally I think some responses here are ridiculous. I find the 15th Quartet to be a complete masterwork which I can listen to again and again. I find it holds up much more to repeated listening than Death and the Maiden, even though that is a great quartet as well. For Schubert the pattern of quality is very clear to me: Quintet>#15>#14>>#13. The live performances that I have heard of #15 have been stunning and clearly blew the audience away.

And I love Beethoven, Mozart, Mendelssohn, and Haydn (!) quartets as well, no disrespect to any of those...


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## KenOC

grocklin said:


> I find the 15th Quartet to be a complete masterwork which I can listen to again and again. I find it holds up much more to repeated listening than Death and the Maiden, even though that is a great quartet as well.


Agree totally. DATM gets tedious with Schubert wringing every last drop of revenue out of the theme. The 15th, to my ears, is far the greater work.


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## DavidA

I listen to the 15th quartet again last night as a result of this thread What a sublime masterwork it is!


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## petter

Alfred Einstein writes in his book of Schubert: (Conveniently called "Schubert") "The first movement, in particular, is entirely dependent upon the interplay of harmonic light and shade, upon the interchange of major and minor within the narrowest compass." Is not these kind of interchange almost a kind signature of Schuberts works?


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## Head_case

grocklin said:


> Personally I think some responses here are ridiculous. I find the 15th Quartet to be a complete masterwork which I can listen to again and again. I find it holds up much more to repeated listening than Death and the Maiden, even though that is a great quartet as well. For Schubert the pattern of quality is very clear to me: Quintet>#15>#14>>#13. The live performances that I have heard of #15 have been stunning and clearly blew the audience away.
> 
> And I love Beethoven, Mozart, Mendelssohn, and Haydn (!) quartets as well, no disrespect to any of those...


The D887 G major string quartet is the very string quartet which sits perched high above all of the other run of the mill classical era string quartets by famous names (whom I care little for, except Beethoven, who certainly merits a few Lp and Cd cycles...). This no.XV string quartet is the one I fast forward to listen to, bypassing the Rosamunde, or the Trout Quintet, and of course, death and the Maiden.

I saw it performed splendidly by the Hagen Quartet months ago - the concentration required for the listener will exceed the standard Haydn quartet listener by a 10x factor and at its best interpretations, it is opulently spiritual. The Italian Quartet and the Prazak Quartet versions are the readings I enjoy the most. The Vintage Busch recording is incomplete sadly although the Taneyev Quartet and Gabrieli Quartet versions are fascinating...along with the more nuanced interpretation by the Aoelian Quartet .It remains powerfully compelling after all these years. Seeing it in concert revives that unique pleasure which Schubert had intended....and I'm not inclined to think he was flawed enough to seek perfection in this composition. He was a young man, tortured, and his originality was never to develop beyond this piece. This is perhaps why it has the hallmarks of a youthful masterpiece...rather than the immature interest pieces of Arriaga or Juon, which are of course interesting, but not in the same league. Its gems do not unravel easily....maybe that is why it seems neglected for Schuberts more popular ditties.


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## grocklin

Heh, but tell us what you really think, Head_case?

Out of curiosity, how would you rate it vs the D956 Quintet? That's what I meant (never had much love for the Trout, though it is enjoyable). D956 seems unquestionably superior to me, which I think is a common opinion..


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## peeyaj

I will be posting my response here tomorrow.. it will be epic!

http://www.talkclassical.com/24931-schubert-string-quartet-15-a.html



> D.887 is one of my favorite masterpieces of Schubert. In my opinion, i*t is his greatest accomplishment on the genre, even superior to the already excellent, Death and the Maiden quartet*. It is one of his most innovative pieces, anticipating the style of Bruckner. The use of tremolos on this work is highly distinctive and the unique interplay of major/minor on the four movements is exhilarating to behold. Even though this is the least popular of his late quartets, D.887 should rank among the "must-hear" to those exploring Schubert's music.
> 
> In a unique approach to sonata form, Schubert seems to co-evolve both theme areas in successive waves as each interrupts the other while internally growing more elaborate. Far more "development" happens in the traditional areas of exposition and recapitulation than the literal development section itself, which is relatively brief by comparison. Instead, there is contrast, expansion and variation in an endless matrix of sudden contrasts in modality, texture, dynamics, rhythm and mood. It is not until the last few bars that the battle finally yields to a briefly stable victory for G Major.


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## peeyaj

grocklin said:


> Heh, but tell us what you really think, Head_case?
> 
> Out of curiosity, how would you rate it vs the D956 Quintet? That's what I meant (never had much love for the Trout, though it is enjoyable). D956 seems unquestionably superior to me, which I think is a common opinion..


D.956 is Schubert's greatest chamber music and the greatest ever written.. ) Oh my God, I love Schubert soo mucchhhhh.. )


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## Otter

This is my favorite string quartet! The first three movements are perfection, and as much as I love the crazed last movement I must admit it doesn't hold up as well as the preceding three.

The 4th movement reminds me a little of one of those outraged parodies Beethoven was fond of (Hammerklavier's scherzo, Op.110 II), but after the intensity of the first three movements it feels a bit anticlimactic. Schubert should have written his own Grosse Fugue** as a finale.  (However, the moment when the second theme comes back as a song toward the middle is just sublime.)

**Can you imagine? A 6/8 tarantella-fugue based on the Wanderer theme, which gets almost atonal, and in the middle section, a calm, a sudden shift into C-major cello solo and then... doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo dooo dooo.

Ok, perhaps not the best of ideas.


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## Head_case

peeyaj said:


> D.956 is Schubert's greatest chamber music and the greatest ever written.. ) Oh my God, I love Schubert soo mucchhhhh.. )


What's that little ditty then lol

The problem with "the greatest!" ..."the bestest!" is that I really don't know what these superlatives mean at all. I know what I like, and what I find meaningful. The Schubert D887 No. XV string quartet surpasses the D956 string quintet form .. that's what I think  ; maybe something to do with the balance of form, being weighted towards the two cellos which loses the mid-range soaring lines of the D887 string quartet. Dark and tempestuous, the D956 certainly is, but soaring ethereal music which rockets me off this planet....perhaps the D956 isn't doing that...and that is how specific music is between music and listener.

I guess I never cared for what others deemed to be the most important; or the bestest ever .... that's something which is as much an existential decision, as it is, a mode of rebellion against conformity, although when this rebellion reaches maturity, then it's healthier to rethink what others think are the bestest chamber pieces, with a degree of suspension and fascination. Most importantly: making one's own mind up.

I've made my mind 20 years ago when I first heard the D887 and D956: it hasn't changed for me. Amazing what you can hear in the womb huh?

Maybe it won't change: maybe that's about the string quartet form, and its strict bias which I hold.


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## Quartetfore

Agree with your comments concerning the "best" and the "greatest". Add to that best or greatest performance,and you will some it up. 
QF.


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## Novelette

Head_case said:


> The D887 G major string quartet is the very string quartet which sits perched high above all of the other run of the mill classical era string quartets by famous names (whom I care little for, except Beethoven, who certainly merits a few Lp and Cd cycles...). This no.XV string quartet is the one I fast forward to listen to, bypassing the Rosamunde, or the Trout Quintet, and of course, death and the Maiden.
> 
> I saw it performed splendidly by the Hagen Quartet months ago - the concentration required for the listener will exceed the standard Haydn quartet listener by a 10x factor and at its best interpretations, it is opulently spiritual. *The Italian Quartet and the Prazak Quartet versions are the readings I enjoy the most. The Vintage Busch recording is incomplete sadly although the Taneyev Quartet and Gabrieli Quartet versions are fascinating...along with the more nuanced interpretation by the Aoelian Quartet* .It remains powerfully compelling after all these years. Seeing it in concert revives that unique pleasure which Schubert had intended....and I'm not inclined to think he was flawed enough to seek perfection in this composition. He was a young man, tortured, and his originality was never to develop beyond this piece. This is perhaps why it has the hallmarks of a youthful masterpiece...rather than the immature interest pieces of Arriaga or Juon, which are of course interesting, but not in the same league. Its gems do not unravel easily....maybe that is why it seems neglected for Schuberts more popular ditties.


I think I need to listen to this by one of these recordings you've recommended. I have the Melos Quartet version, and I heard two performances of this work live--both quite undistinguished, as I recall. Which of this list would you most recommend? Going through the Melos recording and poring over the score suggests an uninteresting work, but Schubert had a marvelous capacity for subtlety--the kind that is conventionally unappealing yet, properly presented, betrays worlds of mysterious beauty.

I will give this quartet a few more listens with which ever recording you recommend.


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## Head_case

I definitely prefer the more subtle and nuanced playing style than say, the mango store shop wares being all exposed like the Emerson Quartet or other supergroups which give us everything and leave us feeling nothing. The Quartetto Italiano double CD of the Schubert last four string quartets is perhaps the first recommendation: this is one of my favourite recordings and the bargain price does not detract from the sonorously sweet and balanced playing of this legendary quartet. The other gem I.ve heard raved, but still not heard, is the Takacs Quartet version...maybe someone who has referenced this against the Quartetto Italiano classic know.

The Prazak Quartet is quite expensive however paired with the not oft recorded string trio for Schubert afficienados. Better digital recording. The pace is not as fast as the Taneyev Quartet version which is rather breathlessly mesmerising, rather than effortlessly gliding.

Alternatively the Prazak is free on:








so the Quartetto Italiano it is: not a single disparaging review of this disc has survived or stood the test of time as well as these first class recordings and performances.


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## peeyaj

Here's an excellent discussion of the merits of the quartet!

*http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...sic-OPUS-81-Schubert-s-String-Quartet-15-in-G*

and:

*http://www.earsense.org/blog/?p=259*


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## Kieran

Thanks Peeyaj, very interesting articles...


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## jurianbai

thanks for that article, I read dailykos.com and spend my 15 minutes (with Alban Berg version though) in a blink and enjoy it. It bring new knowledge for the pieces. Unlucky for me that is the only string quartet piece from the website, when I try to click the "string Quartet" tag.


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## petter

peeyaj said:


> Here's an excellent discussion of the merits of the quartet!
> 
> *http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...sic-OPUS-81-Schubert-s-String-Quartet-15-in-G*
> 
> and:
> 
> *http://www.earsense.org/blog/?p=259*


Hey! Thank you!


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## petter

Dumbo Daily Kos:


> Rage and despair! (Beginning at 7:12). Listen to the cello especially here, and if you can't hear it well, crank up your bass, as it just saws its heart out in the background.


Very affecting.


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## Head_case

petter said:


> Dumbo Daily Kos:
> Very affecting.


Well, cardiothoracic metaphors from the Dumbo Daily Kos aren't always well phrased.

But Schubert's music is!

Which interpretation of the string quintet is the most popular? I'm out on a (rare) limb with my version by the Aeolian Quartet. Anyone acquired the brilliant Petersen Quartet version yet? This quartet from Germany have started an excellent traversal of the Ernest Krenek cycle which I'm really enjoying. I see their Schubert D956 version is out on release now....something which I think I should update my vinyl LP to. I'm not interested in the Takacs rather beastly approach to such poignant music although apart from the Melos & Emerson Quartets, who else is there?


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## KenOC

Head_case said:


> ...apart from the Melos & Emerson Quartets, who else is there?


The Lindsays...


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## peeyaj

I have the Busch recording, I think its the current best available. The second one is Alban Berg Quartet for its observing of all the repeats..


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## Head_case

peeyaj said:


> I have the Busch recording, I think its the current best available. The second one is Alban Berg Quartet for its observing of all the repeats..


Frustratingly, my Busch Quartet recordings of the Schubert string quartets omit the string quintet! I must have bought a bum re-issue without realising (and it was full price too).

The Alban Berg Schubert Quintet reading is one of their stronger less antiseptic efforts. It certainly deserves a mention. Like some overly long masterpieces (Franck's string quartet; Taneyev's no 42 minute ditty), it may not have made it into the classical pop recorded repertoire as quickly as its merits deserve. Now there is one quartet which I *think* recorded this: the Taneyev Quartet. I have their later collection of Schubert String Quartets which are fascinating readings - very left of the centre from the Busch Quartet, although sadly only up to string quartet D887 no.XV. The quintet, may or may not have been recorded for Melodiya on the back of the standard Taneyev Quintet (string and piano quintets) but I've never found this in print.

Guess I should try and whip up the market and go fish for a Petersen Quartet version.

Here's the premier of the Taneyev Quartet in the USA ... back in ... 1987! Their striking character as a string quartet really left a lasting legacy. If only some clever guy would reissue all of their recordings now ...

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/02/arts/music-the-taneyev-string-quartet.html


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## Skilmarilion

Having given this quartet much attention for the string quartets list, it really is one of the absolute finest, for me. The succession of masterworks Schubert wrote for chamber strings (including the Quintet) is remarkable.

The first movement is particularly great, imo. I mentioned this in the Composer of the month thread -- the way that he never fully commits to either the major or minor, how he weaves those rich themes in and out of one another, the way he uses tremolo to ornament tender moments yet using it also to create those passages of persistent violence ... extraordinary.


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## aajj

Head_case said:


> The Quartetto Italiano double CD of the Schubert last four string quartets is perhaps the first recommendation: this is one of my favourite recordings and the bargain price does not detract from the sonorously sweet and balanced playing of this legendary quartet.....


I own this set and completely agree with the recommendation.

Schumann referred to the "heavenly length" of Schubert's 9th symphony and the same description applies to Schubert's final extraordinary string quartet.


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## GKC

Head_case said:


> The Italian Quartet and the Prazak Quartet versions are the readings I enjoy the most.


I would heartily second that, and add the Tokyo quartet's recording on RCA.


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