# Karelia Suite - Sibelius



## Josef Haydn

Boy, recently, i have been spendig a lot of time listening to the ballade from this and it just gives me so much excitement. maybe excitement isn't the right word, maybe more pleasure. I think its around 3:54 where thers a gorgeous string chords whic just makes my spine crumble, jeez, good stuff. Comment anyone?


----------



## robert newman

I just love the Karelia Suite. Sibelius is one of those great talents that it doesn't seem to matter if the music came from early or late in his life. We all love the Violin Concerto, but it was composed when he was still a student. It's wonderful too. 

What a great piece the Karelia Suite is - one of the great treasures of world music.


----------



## Kurkikohtaus

OK, we _*all*_ love *Sibelius*, right? But to say that the _*Karelia Suite*_ is "one of the great treasures of world music" is taking it a little too far.

The fast movements are about as lightweight as Sibelius gets, but they serve their purpose... true, the hymn section of the Ballade is very very good, especially when you consider that it is written in 1893. What Sibelius is depicting here is the so-called *Runo singing* of the *Kalevala*, an idea that to some extent permeates all his work.

A small correction, Mr. Newman, the Violin Concerto was written in 1903 between Symphonies No. 3 and 4, and not when Sibelius was still a student (until 1891).


----------



## tahnak

*Karelia*

The incidental music to Karelia was written in 1893 by Jean Sibelius. I have not heard the full performance of it but the overture and the suite are sweet.
The opening bars of the french horn fanfare with undulating strings in the background is truly inspired writing. It is a gem.
My favourite version is the Lorin Maazel and the Wiener Philharmoniker on London/Decca.


----------



## Guest

tahnak said:


> I have not heard the full performance of it


Do it!


----------



## Lang

Kurkikohtaus said:


> OK, we _*all*_ love *Sibelius*, right?


Um - nope. I have never really got anything from any Sibelius work, and the Karelia Suite in particular seems to have very little musical content to me.


----------



## Tapkaara

Sorry to see you are not a fan of Sibelius, Lang. Oh well.

Could you please elaborate on why you find little of interest in his work?


----------



## Lang

It's a long time since I have heard the work, but I will try. The Karelia Suite seems to me - and I emphasise that this is purely my own, subjective impression - to have little in the way of musical ideas, and what ideas there are, are not developed. The orchestration sounds a little clumsy to me, and slightly opaque. The last movement in particular has as its theme something that could have come out of the playground. And most importantly of all, it doesn't speak to me. So by the time it is over, I feel no emotion at all, other than slight boredom.


----------



## Tapkaara

Well, if your only exposure to Sibelius is the Karelia Suite, I suppose I could understand your feeling towards his music. But let us be reminded that the Karelis Suite is some of Sibelius' lightest, most pleasantly tuneful works. It is, however, by no means the purest representation of the man's music.

Mahler had a similar opinion of Sieblius by the way, but Mahler had formed this fairly negative opinion after hearing the compoer's Spring Song, another light work in the vein of Karelia.

If you have not yet heard any of the symphonies or tone poems, Lang, I think you are in for a shock. Sibelius is one of the most profound musica; voices of the 20th century, but that must seem hard to believe after hearing Karelia. 

May I suggest the 4th Symphony, the 5th Symphony, the 7th Symphony, Pohjola's Daughter and Tapiola? Give one fo these masterpieces a whirl and let me know what you think.


----------



## Lang

I have heard the symphonies, the violin concerto and some of the tone poems. I'm afraid I just don't get it. I have heard Sibelius on the radio without knowing what it is, and my first reaction has been curiosity about who it could be, followed rapidly by boredom.

It's not even a negative reaction to Scandinavian music, because I love some of Grieg's music, and all of Nielsen's. There are other composers I feel the same way about, but as a compensation, there are many composers whose music is not very popular, but which I love.


----------



## PostMinimalist

Karelia is one of the two pieces of Sibelius which got me into classical music as a child. It was used on a late night documentary show which I was allowed to stay up late to hear. I can't remember the name of the show but Karelia and those triplets in the trumpets have been etched on my brain from that time on. The other piece was the extract from Pelleas and Melisande which was (and probably still is) the theme tune for 'The Sky at Night' with Patrick Moore. So much Sibelius on the Telly!
FC


----------



## Tapkaara

Well Lang, I suppose Sibelius's music just isn't for you.

You mentioned you enjoy Nielsen and Grieg. These are two composers that I don't necessarily enjoy, so it just goes to show how different people's tastes can be.


----------



## Lang

Yes indeed, which is why I rarely make musical judgements based on my taste.


----------



## Tapkaara

Well, I think ALL musical judgements are based on taste, at least to some extent. It's very hard, dare I say, impossible (for most) to seperate the two.

I makes judgements on what I like, and what I like is governed by my sense of taste. Anyhow...


----------



## Lang

Oh yes, I make _personal_ judgments based on taste, as we all do. What I meant was I rarely say, "This music is utter crap", even though I might secretly think it.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

tahnak said:


> The incidental music to Karelia was written in 1893 by Jean Sibelius. I have not heard the full performance of it but the overture and the suite are sweet...My favourite version is the Lorin Maazel and the Wiener Philharmoniker on London/Decca.


Yes, Maazel gives a very fine performance with the Vienna Philharmonic. He is in turn given excellent sound by the Decca recording crew.

Both the complete Karelia and Kuolema are available on the Bis label with Vanska conducting the Lahti Symphony. Aside from the music itself being refreshing and colorful, conductor and orchestra give idiomatic performances. Included on the disc is also the composer's original version of Valse Triste. Highly recommended.


----------



## Rhinotop

I listened to this nice work on last Saturday. Simply beautiful and charming (all its movements).


----------



## Heck148

For Karelia Suite - Barbirolli/Halle, all the way...rousing opening, lovely Intermezzo, and A la Marcia receives the most swaggering, uplifting, buoyant rendition I've ever heard...really magnificent...even the brassy, aggressive performance of Fennell/Eastman-Rochester does not match Sir John's high-spirited, superbly conducted and played version...It's on an EMI disc that includes a rousing version of Leminkainen's Return....Halle is just jumping all over it, right at the front of the beat, very exciting....it's as good as Toscanini's superb 1940 version, but in better sound.

for Karelia - I tried Vanska/Lahti complete music - no comparison, not even in the same ball park as Barbirolli...sounds tepid, flaccid in contrast to Sir John's high voltage rendition.


----------



## Pugg

Karelia Suite = Ashkenazy or Sir Neville Marriner springing to mind.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

Heck148 said:


> for Karelia - I tried Vanska/Lahti complete music - no comparison, not even in the same ball park as Barbirolli...sounds tepid, flaccid in contrast to Sir John's high voltage rendition.


The recorded perspective with Barbirolli/Halle is more up front with a clearer outline, imparting a greater sense of orchestral presence. He also likely has the better orchestra. Vanska also uses singers in Sibelius' original version. While Barbirolli certainly does a fine job, I still prefer the nuances/details brought out by Vanska in his interpretation.


----------



## Judith

Love Karelia Suite. I heard the first movement when a teenager and it was a theme tune to a documentary called "This week" then we studied it in music lessons at school. One of my favourite works composed by Sibelius.


----------



## Heck148

Haydn67 said:


> I still prefer the nuances/details brought out by Vanska in his interpretation.


I suppose at some point I'll have to give Vanska another chance - he laid such an egg with me with his deadly dull Karelia, [music which I love] that I've been put off trying more from him....


----------



## Heck148

Judith said:


> Love Karelia Suite. .... One of my favourite works composed by Sibelius.


same here...I love Sibelius, esp the early stuff...Karelia is wonderful...


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

Heck148 said:


> I suppose at some point I'll have to give Vanska another chance - he laid such an egg with me with his deadly dull Karelia, [music which I love] that I've been put off trying more from him....


:lol:I can certainly identify with the gist of what you're saying here. Virtually all of us have found ourselves in situations where it's difficult for us to imagine how someone can feel so positive about a particular performance we feel the opposite or differently about. And there will be many more similar situations that follow. Newbies, as we once were, often put their faith in the choices of record reviewers as to what they should buy. As we get older and more experienced in listening, we become more discriminating about what we like and don't like. Nonetheless, we remain open to new possibilities and changes in our tastes. We're still capable of making 180 degree shifts sometimes, possibly finding attractive those things we previously did not, and vice versa. Oh well...really no reason to sweat it.


----------



## Heck148

It just seemed to me that Vanska was getting lots of "hype" - that he was some new superstar...when I saw that he had recorded the complete Karelia music, I was so psyched, because I love the suite, and I like the overture.....unfortunately, the recording was deadly dull, very undistinguished playing and conducting, nowhere near my recordings of Barbirolli, Gibson, Fennell...I just can't imagine Vanska comparing favorably with Bernstein, Toscanini, Stokowski, etc...


----------



## Border Collie

:tiphat: Love the original as well!!!!


----------

