# Anyone Like Baroque But Not Bach?



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Just out of curiosity. I've heard it mentioned before that some judged the Baroque period based on Bach and found out that Baroque sounded quite differently. Also which Baroque composers specifically did you prefer? I'm not one of those though. I like Bach.


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

If there is, we should get their address and go beat them up.

Yes, there is much in the baroque period that is vastly different than Bach. And I like quite a few of them - Biber, Vivaldi, Handel, Rameau, Rebel, Couperin, just to name a few.


----------



## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I like Bach, but not baroque.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Odnoposoff said:


> I like Bach, but not baroque.


I figured I'd get those answers as well. Bach wasn't so popular during his time. So yeah he was ahead of his time as it seemed like he started getting more appreciation during the Romantic Era by the likes of Schubert, Mendelssohn, and etc.


----------



## Oliver (Feb 14, 2012)

Vivaldi and Bach


----------



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm not generally a fan of Baroque music, but I enjoy some Handel while detesting almost all Bach.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Odnoposoff said:


> I like Bach, but not baroque.


This indeed.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I like a lot of other baroque better than Bach. Bach has never been one of my favorites.


----------



## eighthundredfortynine (Apr 5, 2012)

Bach is a favourite of mine. I love allmost all of his cembalo/clavichord/organ works but also the cantatas and passions. That said there are lots of great composers from the baroque era. I like the early ones who developed the style coming from Italy, like Gabrieli, Monteverdi. And then the guys who build on that but mixed in dutch or german influences like Schütz or Sweelinck.

Other composers from later baroque periods that I like are Graun, Buxtehude, Telemann, Hasse, Frescobaldi, Pachelbel, Handel, Scarlatti D. I´m not too fond of most of the french dudes, even though there influence in the period was obviously huge.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

The only thing I'd change in that post is that I'm quite fond of the French.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Eh, this is pretty much my personal view on Baroque music.

Bach

Handel







Scarlatti 

Vivaldi, Telemann



















































All those other guys


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

@Violadude - you need to become acquainted with a little composer by the name of Monteverdi.... Monteverdi > Handel imo.

Baroque along with Modern are my favorite musical periods...Bach is my favorite composer across all time periods.


----------



## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

Handel is my favorite baroque composer. 

Bach is my favorite composer period.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Ha, blasphemy violadude. The list obviously goes

Vivaldi











time-travelling Schoenberg
















everybody else


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I think I like baroque BECAUSE of Bach. At the very least he was for me the key which unlocked the door to that era.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I LOVE Bach. I adore Handel. And I like Baroque music.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Bach is okay, but I'd rather listen to Scarlatti.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Not very keen on Bach here, that without 'dissing' him as to his technical prowess.

My 'hero' of the Baroque era has got to be Jean-Phillipe Rameau. I think he is the equal of Bach as far as 'greatness' goes.

... another whom I find truly remarkable, and again 'equal to' would be the profoundly great and most expressive G.F. Haendel, of course.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I used to be floored by certain special pieces by Bach, and greatly enjoyed his simpler pieces that didn't exactly floor me, but the complex stuff that didn't move me, didn't interest me so much for a long time. Now I'm much more into Bach. But that being said, I was a big appreciator of the baroque, without thinking so highly of Bach. Handel at his best was better than Bach at his best to me, more emotionally appealing, but Handel at his worst seemed routine(still does). Bach's routine is always at least interesting. I was always more a fan of Corelli, Vivaldi, Scarlatti and Telemann per their standard quality of pieces though.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

@Violadude

You must get to know Rameau, Corelli, Purcell, Buxthude, and Boyce. All very good.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I like just about every composer already mentioned. The Baroque period had so many different temperaments represented.

As far as preferences, I've had a Bach phase, a Handel phase, a Vivaldi phase, as well as a French Baroque and Colossal Baroque (composers like Biber) phase. Then there was a sacred music phase where I collected cantatas and oratorios from anyone in this period I could come across.

I don't know of another era where I've found myself for a time stuck to one composer or region or genre like this era has.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

tdc said:


> @Violadude - you need to become acquainted with a little composer by the name of Monteverdi.... Monteverdi > Handel imo.
> 
> Baroque along with Modern are my favorite musical periods...Bach is my favorite composer across all time periods.


Oh yes, I should have put Monteverdi up there with Bach, I forget that he was a Baroque composer sometimes.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> @Violadude
> 
> You must get to know Rameau, Corelli, Purcell, Buxthude, and Boyce. All very good.


I have all of Purcell's chamber music. In my opinion I've heard a few really good pieces out of those, but most of it sounds like standard baroque stuff to me. Alas, I will keep listening.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> Oh yes, I should have put Monteverdi up there with Bach, I forget that he was a Baroque composer sometimes.


Ah, Monteverdi, another of my big-time heros, Claudio is. Technically "Renaissance," (late), an overlap or 'borderline' baroque.

We have him, generally, to thank or blame for deciding to 'go homophonic' and really changing the direction of music in a big way. Fantastic composer, whether in the older modal contrapuntal mode or his more 'monophonic-tonal' style.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm constantly trying to fall in love with Bach, and always failing miserably.

But I do love Couperin, Sainte-Colombe, Marais.


----------



## Operadowney (Apr 4, 2012)

I detest Bach chorales but I like his masses, his passions and most of his vocal music otherwise.


----------



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

nobody seriously listen to Giuseppe Tartini? also veracini, Quantz, Abel, Galuppi?


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> Just out of curiosity. I've heard it mentioned before that some judged the Baroque period based on Bach and found out that Baroque sounded quite differently. Also which Baroque composers specifically did you prefer? I'm not one of those though. I like Bach.


I was a bit like that before, preferring other Baroque composers to him (eg. the Italians, & Handel, Buxtehude, etc.) but I am now beginning to like J.S. Bach, esp. his instrumental music._ The Musical Offering _is my favourite work so far.


----------



## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

baroque is really vast actually. Even though it's not my fav period, I think there are huge many other composers worth investigating.


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> I think I like baroque BECAUSE of Bach. At the very least he was for me the key which unlocked the door to that era.


Same here, when quite young I got to know and love the Brandenburg Concertos well before I even knew what Baroque Music was, no preconceptions.


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Rapide said:


> baroque is really vast actually. Even though it's not my fav period, I think there are huge many other composers worth investigating.


It is vast and huge areas still await rediscovery, there was a programme on BBC radio 3 about Portuguese baroque music. 
I have a fair amount of knowledge on baroque composers but I had never heard of any of the composers represented and their music was beautiful! 
We now need to look beyond the French, Italian and German masters.


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

presto said:


> It is vast and huge areas still await rediscovery, there was a programme on BBC radio 3 about Portuguese baroque music.
> I have a fair amount of knowledge on baroque composers but I had never heard of any of the composers represented and their music was beautiful!
> We now need to look beyond the French, Italian and German masters.


That sounds interesting. Can you remember the names of these composers?


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Sorry they were very obscure names, but possibly some of these- 

Manuel Correia (1600–1653), composer and kapellmeister at the La Seo Cathedral
Filipe da Madre de Deus (1633–1688), composer and kapellmeister of the royal music chamber
King Peter II (1648–1706), King of Portugal and composer (only ten organ pieces)
João Rodrigues Esteves, (1700–1751) composer of religious music
Carlos Seixas (1704–1742), composer and organist
António Teixeira (1707–after 1769), composer and chief of the choir of Lisbon Cathedral
Francisco António de Almeida (before 1722–1752), composer and organist
Abbot António da Costa (1714–1780), composer, violinist, clerig and epistlegraph
Luciano Xavier dos Santos (1734–1808), composer and head of the Setúbal Choir.
João de Sousa Carvalho (1745–1798), composer (15 Italian operas) and harpsichord player


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I don't much like baroque but find Scarlatti and Soler very exciting as I am a lover of the harpsichord.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

moody said:


> I don't much like baroque but find Scarlatti and Soler very exciting as I am a lover of the harpsichord.


I can think of many many baroque composers who composed a wealth of great material for the harpsichord (including Bach). Perhaps you are more drawn to _Spanish_ style baroque harpsichord?


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

tdc said:


> I can think of many many baroque composers who composed a wealth of great material for the harpsichord (including Bach). Perhaps you are more drawn to _Spanish_ style baroque harpsichord?


I mentioned these two composers but I have others. I think what you've said is probably right as I find Soler most extraordinary in every way ,but I have not made a conscious effort to collect a lot of harpsichord works.


----------



## mitchflorida (Apr 24, 2012)

Kind of like asking, do you like Rock music, but not the Beatles or Elvis?


----------



## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

mitchflorida said:


> Kind of like asking, do you like Rock music, but not the Beatles or Elvis?


It's interesting you would site those particular two because while I more than like rock and all aspects of it, the Beatles and Elvis are way far back for me on my list of faves. I suppose the same can go for Bach with some folks. I've seen much stranger stuff.

Presto, when _you_ bust out obscure names it is completely believable. Good to see you around!


----------



## mitchflorida (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome! Not sure what your response means, but have a nice day.


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

mitchflorida said:


> Thanks for the welcome! Not sure what your response means, but have a nice day.


Why not just accept it at face value? There is no 'knock' there. I'm not strong on rock, but both Elvis and the Beatles are much more distinctive for lyrics than for instrumentals; that could influence the esthetics of a musician, eh?


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mitchflorida said:


> Thanks for the welcome! Not sure what your response means, but have a nice day.


Most of the time you don't know what he means---he is a man of mystery!


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mitchflorida said:


> Kind of like asking, do you like Rock music, but not the Beatles or Elvis?


I you are asking me--no way Jose!


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

moody said:


> Most of the time you don't know what he means---he is a man of mystery!


I think _mitch_ is talking to _kv_, who tends to express himself clearly - I think, anyway


----------



## mitchflorida (Apr 24, 2012)

I have never met anyone who liked Rock music and didn't like Elvis Presley's music.

I have never met anyone who liked Baroque music but doesn't like Bach.

But you have all sorts of people out there. Enjoy whatever you enjoy. It's all good.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't care for Elvis Presley. The 50's is kinda meh for me.


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I don't care for Elvis Presley. The 50's is kinda meh for me.


That cancels out the 50's then!


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

On Rob Cowan morning programme (BBC Radio 3) he has a spot called “Innocent ear” where he plays a piece but doesn’t tell you who composed it until it’s finished.
It’s a great eye opener, or should I say ear opener, as it does away with those preconceptions that often spoil the enjoyment of a work if you’ve decided beforehand you don’t like the composer.
I’ve been caught out!


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

That's a good idea, the problem is that I cannot stand the creepy Rob Cowan.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I really do prefer Bach's 4 significant composer sons to his actual music overall. I still like J.S. though, and he was a great genius. The aesthetic of CPE and WF appeal more to me and are also of high quality. JC doesn't appeal to me as much, but his melodies are certainly better, and JCF is very solid, would have made his dad the most proud.


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

moody said:


> the problem is that I cannot stand the creepy Rob Cowan.


How strange, I think he comes across as a really nice guy with a real love of music.


----------



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> JC doesn't appeal to me as much, but his melodies are certainly better,


I have a soft spot for JC Bach, I've got a number of his Symphonies Concertantes, these muli-soloist concertos are nowhere as well known as his purely orchestral Sinfonias. 
Yet they are more extended works, I feel they represent the best of his orchestral writing, he wrote 32 of them! 
There are some very beautiful things to discover here.


----------



## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

A few of my desert island Bach selections:

The Musical Offering (Academy of St. Martin's/Marriner)
The Goldberg Variations (Gould/Gould)
The Mass in B minor (JEGardiner)
The Passions according to St. Matt and St. John (Gardiner and Suzuki respectively)
The English and French Suites (Dubravka Tomsic)
The Unaccompanied Violin Sonatas and Partitas (Nathan Milstein)
The Unaccompanied Cello Suites (Starker)

I like CPE Bach, but already the music is not exactly Baroque.
I like Johann Christian Bach ('the London Bach') (same)

Other Baroque composers in my desert island collection:

Handel
D. Scarlatti
Vivaldi
Rameau
Couperin
Corelli
Charpentier
Lully
Monteverdi

and I'm looking for some others - thinking of exploring the South American Baroque, and from this thread, the Portuguese, as well.


----------



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

Taneyev said:


> I like Bach, but not baroque.


Are you telling me you don't like this music?


----------



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

neoshredder said:


> Just out of curiosity. I've heard it mentioned before that some judged the Baroque period based on Bach and found out that Baroque sounded quite differently. Also which Baroque composers specifically did you prefer? I'm not one of those though. I like Bach.


I don't especially like Bach, though it might be because you have it burned into your brain if you have anything to do with WCM and that sort of thing tends to turn me off. I was surprised to find that the baroque can sound different than Bach, there are many things that other composers do that Bach would never have done and came across to me as being quite novel and creative. I especially like the Couperins and Rameau, but I've also had surprising listens with Corelli and the Scarlattis.

The ornamentation in those French composers (which I guess they got from the Italians) is really incredible; listening to Bach you don't really think of ornaments as something that makes or breaks a piece, but it's quite another story with other composers.


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

atsizat said:


> Are you telling me you don't like this music?


I hope you weren't anxious for a reply. That comment was written 4 years ago and the poster who wrote it has been away from TC for nearly the same amount of time.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Liking Baroque but not Bach would be like preferring the trunk of a tree over its roots.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

DaveM said:


> Liking Baroque but not Bach would be like preferring the trunk of a tree over its roots.


Quite the opposite, actually.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

DaveM said:


> Liking Baroque but not Bach would be like preferring the trunk of a tree over its roots.


Liking Baroque but not liking Bach is like liking 50s' 60s' rock but not Elvis, or jazz but not Miles Davis, or classical in general but not Mozart or Beethoven. There is nothing wrong with it per se, it's just different.


----------

