# Try to imagine this.



## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Try to imagine your life without the passion of classical music.

Try to imagine your life without the whole hours passed on listening at music, at composing or at practising on your instrument.

Try to imagine this and then answer these questions:

What did classical music give to you?

Which achivements did you reach in terms of virtue/morality?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

CM has given me music that I enjoy listening to and never tire of.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

kikko said:


> Which achivements did you reach in terms of virtue?


Can you clarify that question a little bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe if you stated it in different words I'd understand.

Virtue is often defined as "moral excellence". Is this what you meant? Or did you mean something else?


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

it passes the time


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Vesteralen said:


> Can you clarify that question a little bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe if you stated it in different words I'd understand.
> 
> Virtue is often defined as "moral excellence". Is this what you meant? Or did you mean something else?


Yes sorry but I'm italian and sometimes it's difficult for me to express some concepts.

I was talking about moral achivements. That includes your behavior, if you are a meditative person etc...


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Jobis said:


> it passes the time


To me that sounds like you're just waiting for death to come and you listen at music just to not bore yourself during the wait.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

He was joking.


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> He was joking.


Oh...I feel stupid right now.

I though the questions had some worth.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Achievements in terms of virtue/morality come first: these lead a person to the appreciation of classical music, of our history and where we come from, to an understanding of where we are going, etc. Perhaps it takes a meditative and inquiring personality to get here.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Don't beat yourself up so fast, he was just giving an understated answer  I'm sure for 90%+ people here on this forum, classical music has a whole lot of spiritual value and artistic interest, and is entertaining too! And often, the spirituality, artistry, and entertainment are a unison, not separate elements.

As far as whether music advances a person's spirituality, often yes. Certain works have spoke profoundly to many people and helped them through tough times. I'm sure this is the case with you?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

kikko said:


> Yes sorry but I'm italian and sometimes it's difficult for me to express some concepts.
> 
> I was talking about moral achivements. That includes your behavior, if you are a meditative person etc...


It's a difficult question, in a way. Over forty years ago, when I was in my late teenage years, I started listening to classical music. I can remember that much of what I heard inspired me. Sometimes it filled me with what I suppose could be called "noble sentiments". It certainly added to the quality of life for me.

Though it still does add to the quality of my life, I guess I've gotten a bit more skeptical about the power of music to affect one's behavior. Whatever good influences may have shaped my behavior, music would not seem to be critical to that process.

That does not mean that the quality of my life would not be poorer without it, it's just that, at most, it can be a reflection, not a shaper, of the kind of person I am.

And, though I hate to say it, if music couldn't positively affect the behavior of most of the people who created it (as can be surmised by reading their biographies in frequent cases), how could it do so for those of us who are mere performers or listeners?


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Vesteralen said:


> And, though I hate to say it, if music couldn't positively affect the behavior of most of the people who created it (as can be surmised by reading their biographies in frequent cases), how could it do so for those of us who are mere performers or listeners?


I feel like music often makes you feel understood. Maybe it will not change the reality, but it's like it can replace a person for some moments...


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Music is art and I think Tolstoy gets to core of the issue...

_Art is not, as the metaphysicians say, the manifestation of some mysterious idea of beauty or God; it is not, as the aesthetical physiologists say, a game in which man lets off his excess of stored-up energy; it is not the expression of man's emotions by external signs; it is not the production of pleasing objects; and, above all, it is not pleasure; but it is a means of union among men, joining them together in the same feelings, and indispensable for the life and progress toward well-being of individuals and of humanity._

We enter a concert hall and for a few hours, thousands of people are as one - when we leave we are never truly separated again.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

kikko said:


> I feel like music often makes you feel understood. Maybe it will not change the reality, but it's like it can replace a person for some moments...


I can remember pacing back in my dormitory room 38 years ago listening to Schumann's Piano Sonata No 2 and having this overwhelming feeling of, for lack of a better word, yes-ness with what I was hearing. I couldn't explain it or define it, but I did have that feeling of being understood, so I think I know what you mean.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have the uncomfortable feeling that we are being interviewed by a reporter for a magazine article or some research project.

If this is true, OP, please identify yourself as such, as I find "stealth research" unethical.

And if I am wrong, I humbly apologize profusely.


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I have the uncomfortable feeling that we are being interviewed by a reporter for a magazine article or some research project.
> 
> If this is true, OP, please identify yourself as such, as I find "stealth research" unethical.


The New York Time.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I think I understand your question, but please allow what may be a misunderstanding -- which can come about because you are not writing in what for you is your native language.

From early childhood, I have an active lifetime of being deeply involved with playing an instrument, and a later study of music theory and then composing. Any ethics or 'moral compass' I have certainly comes exclusively from my family, teachers; already 'tempered' by those influences, any others who were of later influence were those I respected, in talking with them or seeing them as exemplar of a way I thought 'good to be.' I could not directly attribute any 'better aspects' of my character, ethical or moral, to the music, or art or literature in general.

The word _virtue,_ as related to the arts, has its sole meaning and emphasis on this aspect:

_virtu / vir·tu [ver-too, vur-too]

noun
1.*excellence or merit* in objects of art, curios, and the like.
2.( used with a plural verb ) such objects or articles collectively.
3.a taste for or knowledge of such objects.
Also, vertu.

Origin: 1715-25; < Italian virtù, vertù virtue_
(This usage has nothing to do with those philosophical / spiritual aspects often associated with the same word, so this context carries with it no connotations of either "ethics" or "morals.")

I think what you may believe, or hope to believe, is that the regular consuming of classical music, a constant exposure to it, and / or actively learning to play and compose as a lifetime pastime or career, will somehow 'spiritually elevate' those who do so, and that it has the power to influence, keeping them behaving well as far as ethics and their dealings with other people.

Sadly, that is but a lovely and somewhat nostalgic conceit. History is littered with accurate reports of great men and women, artists and performers, who behaved more than badly upon occasion, and other artists who were as complex and deeply flawed as any other person might be. Yet, these people bring to the world what many consider fine, deep and 'elevating' music, art, and literature.

The most positive thing I can think of is that what has come from these artists and performers, what we do get from them -- at least for a bit of time as they work -- is that we are seeing / hearing one of the better or best _parts_ of them, the better / best that people can be. Audiences too, temporarily at least while engaged with the artwork, can and do get 'taken to that higher plane.'

I do not think the 'higher plane' many do hear, feel, or recognize present in great art has, by itself, ever changed anyone, excepting temporarily, for brief moments, from being, eh, 'human,' and flawed, or worse


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

There is an enduring quality I find in classical music that seems to not be present in non-classical. For vocal music, the human voice is the greatest musical instrument and in classical we get that to its fullest refinement; whereas in non-classical I don't even like a good voice, but prefer voices like Bob Dylan, Neil Young, or Johnny Winter (though all three of these have sung in nice voices, it was not their typical manner). So it seems that classical music inspires one to the highest levels of quality and beauty. There is also much room for imagination in classical vs the fairly clear cut and often simplistic messages of non-classical.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

There is so much wonderful music (and art of other sorts) to experience, and though I have a good sized record collection, access to music via the internet and radio and the concert hall, and fine stereo equipment to render my discs in splendid fashion, what I most am appreciative of is that I have the _time_ to enjoy music, for music is an art that demands time. I am fortunate in that respect.


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## Rhythm (Nov 2, 2013)

There's pleasure for me in the following philosophy: the words spiritual and spirituality are not included.

Art is not, as the metaphysicians say, the manifestation of some mysterious idea of beauty or God; it is not, as the aesthetical physiologists say, a game in which man lets off his excess of stored-up energy; it is not the expression of man's emotions by external signs; it is not the production of pleasing objects; and, above all, it is not pleasure; but it is a means of union among men, joining them together in the same feelings, and indispensable for the life and progress toward well-being of individuals and of humanity. ...
~ Tolstoy​
Initially posted here.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

It has ingrained in me a love for history, more diverse interests. People all around the world fascinate me. Religion has fascinated me since music history got me into examining the subject with more self discipline. I look around at people and it is a source of wonderment to me the sort of things that humans can think up.


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