# "Contemporary Music I" Can subtlety succeed?



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Can seemingly innocuous music succeed? In classical music that is. It probably has in the past, depending on how fine one wants to slice the meaning of the term, but that was then and this is now. Some 'post-modern' compositions are not _overtly_ challenging, but does that make them innocuous, or perhaps only requiring a willingness to 'enter the place they are at'?

I am posing this question as a possible entry to consideration of both the _degrees_ of challenge the modern listener faces, and the _natures_ of the challenge. By 'succeed' I mean make a wordless connection with at least some listeners. Starting at the 'calm' end of the spectrum seems like as good a place as any.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes, I think it's succeeded royally. There are thousands upon thousands of listeners who connect and enjoy. Maybe you're looking for some advertisements or banners for verification? 

This is one enjoyer right here, me. How many more heads are needed to be considered worthy? 

My point is - if it can connect with one person, then I think it has gained its worth. Popularity is a social play.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ukko said:


> Can seemingly innocuous music succeed? In classical music that is. It probably has in the past, depending on how fine one wants to slice the meaning of the term, but that was then and this is now. Some 'post-modern' compositions are not _overtly_ challenging, but does that make them innocuous, or perhaps only requiring a willingness to 'enter the place they are at'?
> 
> I am posing this question as a possible entry to consideration of both the _degrees_ of challenge the modern listener faces, and the _natures_ of the challenge. By 'succeed' I mean make a wordless connection with at least some listeners. Starting at the 'calm' end of the spectrum seems like as good a place as any.


in·noc·u·ous
iˈnäkyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: innocuous
1.
not harmful or offensive.

So subjective as to be meaningless.
I'd have to ask for few examples of what you find 1.) innocuous

Subtle is a quality not at all exclusively mutually inclusive with 'innocuous.'

So I'd would like you to commit to some examples of contemporary pieces that you think are of each quality and / or both.

David Lang has written some very tonal music which I find both intelligent, and subtle (The Pulitzer music prize committee thought so, at any rate, and that might be 'mostly harmless.' but his music, I don't think, has entered into a widespread popularity. 
_Child_ 1st movement




_Wed_ for solo piano





I think most of Arvo Part's music in his later very tonal "neomedieval" / (sorta) minimalist style _is_ innocuous, but I also find it extremely bland and / or downright boring. Some is 'very pretty,' but that quality has never on its own held me for very long, like about five minutes, maybe

But from your non-specific _innocuous,_ I think mainly of music which does nothing for me at all, like the bulk of pop newage or 'spiritual relaxation music,' ditto a lot of the electronic ambient music -- which some hold in high esteem.

So, watcha talkin' 'bout, Ukko?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I figured the "what I'm talking about" was obvious: a cooperative effort by both the I-get-its and the I-don't-get-its for the benefit of contemporary music. Not specifically for the benefit of the composers, mostly for the people who would like to connect with it.

I think now it ain't obvious because both the _gets_ and the _don'ts _are satisfied, maybe even happy, with the status quo. I'm still glad I made the effort, because it advances my understanding... but I ain't a crusader, so never mind.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

An apology for wasting time and space:

Sorry for the confusion. What seemed clear to me was apparently incomprehensible to everyone else.

BTW my use of 'innocuous' was as non-confrontational/non-threatening. Some contemporary music has a definite in-your-face quality for the uninitiated; that's the music at the other end of my spectrum from 'innocuous'.

Anyway, the whole notion turns out to be about as attractive as the sausage-in-a-bun that Terry Pratchet immortalized.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ukko said:


> An apology for wasting time and space:


TOSH, you did neither.



Ukko said:


> Sorry for the confusion. What seemed clear to me was apparently incomprehensible to everyone else.


I'm known to be pretty obtuse / dense in more than a couple of areas, 'struth.



Ukko said:


> BTW my use of 'innocuous' was as non-confrontational/non-threatening. Some contemporary music has a definite in-your-face quality for the uninitiated; that's the music at the other end of my spectrum from 'innocuous'.


Okeedoh, I _am_ initiated, ergo, would really like to know the other side of the coin's perspective. That is why any of a couple of links would very much clue me in, (maybe one you felt at least marginally in your face confrontational, too.)



Ukko said:


> Anyway, the whole notion turns out to be about as attractive as the sausage-in-a-bun that Terry Pratchet immortalized.


Yet another reference for which I have no knowledge. I know who Terry Pratchet is, have read one brief extract from one of his Discworld novels.

You know, I've often enough thought of a list of modern contemporary rep which is somewhat 'graded' as ranked by 'accessiblity,' would not be a bad thing (determining the ranking criteria might be a tangle and if there were a good one that could be the go-to for anyone with the questions like "tonal' symphonies post 1960," or, "I like this this and this, but this other is too much, can you steer me to more music I might like?"

So come on back and play, please.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DratAnotherDupe. 
~ One should never wake up, go directly to the computer, and then immediately post at least until after some wake-up time and that coffee, tea or juice kick-starter. ~


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

"Yet another reference for which I have no knowledge. I know who Terry Pratchet is, have read one brief extract from one of his Discworld novels."

I am dropping the original subject like a frozen sausage. Re Terry Pratchet's Discworld novels:

There may be no way to describe the goings-on of the inhabitants of Discworld that doesn't distort them. I am sure that "Social satire that rubs high humor into the pricks made by its points" distorts things pretty badly. I started reading about them with the Pyramids book, and it took me a couple chapters to get hooked. I was sitting in a recliner chair at the time; in an ordinary chair I may have tipped over backwards laughing. Some of those inhabitants are "repeating characters", so it is best to read the stories in order of publication; it makes some of the byplay even more effective. Including the incidents surrounding sausage-in-a-bun.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Ukko said:


> I am posing this question as a possible entry to consideration of both the _degrees_ of challenge the modern listener faces, and the _natures_ of the challenge.


I don't fully understand what being challenged has to do with modernity?

Reading Milton's 'Paradise Lost' may be considered challenging for many people. I suppose it requires concentration and a willingness to engage with some unfamiliar language and biblical references.

Many people who love Stravinsky and Bartok and Reich and Adams and John Coltrane and Ornette Coleman find listening to Mozart or Palestrina very challenging in as much as they don't 'get it'.

Speaking for myself, I don't really hear music as challenging or not. It either engages or bores, regardless of style or period.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I like to be challenged in my listening. Music that appears complex, difficult, unconventional, etc. tends to stay with my for decades and decades without ever wearing out. Music that is simple, pre-digested, predictable, etc., rarely snags my interest.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't always like to be challenged with music, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

… wait a minute.


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