# Best non-4-movement symphonies



## Rhombic

There are many symphonies. Many great symphonies too.
Most symphonies have been composed in four movements, though there have always been symphonies with a different number of movements. Great examples are the early 3-movement symphonies by Haydn or Barber's Symphony in one movement, but there are many other. As a different proposal to TC, I thought that you may think of fabulous symphonies which consist of 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7... any number of movements except four. As an idea, it looks rather arbitrary and random, but I still think that the outer structure of a symphony may, in fact, reflect its inner development of themes. So there goes the question.

*Which are the best symphonies that do not consist of four movements?*


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## Manxfeeder

Personally, I think Mahler's 3rd is great. Each movement is a progression from the one before.

Another personal observation, Roy Harris' 3rd symphony is one movement but five parts. Wiki has a quote about it from Haskins: "his work is considered an influential work that uses a number of techniques that have become common in subsequent American classical music, including 'massive but spacious textures; a new emphasis on vital, syncopated rhythms... and a rich harmonic palette.'" It's also easy to play, which is a plus.


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## joen_cph

On top of my head, 5 of some of the best would be:

- Mahler 10
- Nielsen 5
- Martinu 6
- Pettersson 8
- Lutoslawski 4

I´d rather not be without any of these ;-).


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## elgar's ghost

Shostakovich 8
Prokofiev 2
Sibelius 7
Mahler 2, 3

But there are many more I could opt for.


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## ptr

*Messiaen *Turangalila
*Shostakovich *4
*Pettersson *2, 6, 8, 10, 15
*Andriessen *2
*Berio *Sinfonia
*Gubaidulina *Symphony 'Stimmen... Verstummen'
*Lutoslawski *2, 3, 4
*Mathias *2
*Nørgård *3, 6, 7
*Sibelius *3, 5, 7
*Stravinsky* Symphony in 3 Movements 
*Suk *Asrael 
*Tippett* 4

of the top of my head...

/ptr


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## Skilmarilion

Of those not mentioned so far, some favourites:

Mendelssohn 2
Tchaikovsky 3
Mahler 5, 7
Rachmaninov 3


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## Cosmos

I'm going to exclude Schubert's 8th and Bruckner's 9th, because they were both probably intended to be four movement works. We'll just never know.

Of the symphonies I know [excluding the ones that have been mentioned so far]:

Scriabin's 3rd
Beethoven's 6th
Adams' Harmonielehre
Mozart's 38th "Prague"
Liszt's Faust
Mahler's 8
Mendelssohn's 2nd
Shostakovich 9th
Schoenberg's 2 Chamber Symphonies


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## omega

*Mahler* 2, 3, 8 and 10 (and 5, 7)
*Sibelius *5 and 7
*Nielsen *5
*Mozart *34
*Bernstein* 2


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## csacks

Just to add another, Berlioz´ Fantastic and Lalo´s Symphony Espagnole that both have 5 movements


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## DiesIraeCX

Beethoven's 6th "Pastorale"
Mahler's 5th and 7th
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
Mozart's 38th "Prague"

I'll include unfinished symphonies.

Bruckner's 9th
Schubert's 8th "Unfinished"


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## csacks

Just remembered!! Scriabin´s 1,2 and 3. None of them have 4 movements


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## mtmailey

DVORAK symphony 3,Tchaikovsky symphony 3,JANACEK sinfonietta & Mozart symphony 38 .


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## hpowders

Charles Ives Symphony No. 3. Three wonderful movements!


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## Bruce

Henze 3
Sibelius 3, 6, 7
Mahler 3, 8, 10
Pettersson 6, 7, 8, 10
Piston 2
Schuman 8
Copland 2
Chavez 1
Bernstein 1, 2
Saint-Saëns 3

There are really quite a few; this is just a sampling I can think of at the moment.


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## Delicious Manager

Some of mine:

*Single movement (complete works)*
Barber
Lutosławski 3 & 4
Sibelius 7
Simpson 9
Weill 1

*Symphonies in two movements*
Mahler 8
Nielsen 5
Prokofiev 2
Saint-Saëns 3

*Symphonies in three movements*
Chausson
Haydn 26
Honegger 1-5
Mozart 31 & 32
Prokofiev 6
Shostakovich 4 & 6
Stravinsky
Weill 2

*Symphonies in five movements*
Beethoven 6
Berlioz Symphonie fantastique
Mahler - 2, 5 & 7
Shostakovich 8, 9 & 13
Tchaikovsky 3

*Symphonies in six movements*
Havergal Brian Gothic
Haydn 60
Mahler 3


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## hpowders

Peter Mennin Symphony No. 7


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

I like Peter Mennin's 5th, David Diamond's 4th, Howard Hanson's 1st and 2nd - all 3 movements, all very beautiful.

I think Sibelius' 5th is 3 movements as well? And that one's a keeper. 

I'm a HUGE fan of Carlos Chavez' symphonia india (his 2nd), being a proponent of latin-american composers.

EDIT: Let me add Walton's 2nd....a fascinating work that's worth hearing.


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## DiesIraeCX

This thread has reminded me that I need to designate some time to listen to Sibelius' symphonies, it's been on my "to do list" for too long. I heard No. 7 quite a while ago. I enjoyed it, but as I said, it's been a while. I'm gonna search for Sibelius and Karajan on Spotify soon!


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## Woodduck

Everyone - except Skilmarilion back there - forgets about Rachmaninoff's 3rd (3 movements). It's a beautiful, dramatic, touching work, stunningly orchestrated like all his late works, and it deserves more air time than it gets. The second movement is a slow movement with a scherzo in the middle of it, and the return of the opening material after the scherzo is echt-Rach glorious.


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## MoonlightSonata

If incomplete works are allowed, then I would like to mention Schubert's Unfinished.


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## D Smith

Franck Symphony in D minor. Still my favorite.


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## Orfeo

I agree with all of the above. _My take:_

*Symphonies in one movement*
Myaskovsky's Symphonies nos. XIII & XXI
Edgar Bainton's Symphony no. II
Allan Pettersson's Seventh and Twelfth (in 9 poems/sections w/o breaks after Pablo Neruda)
Leonard Bernstein's Second "The Age of Anxiety" (in six parts)
Aram Khachaturian's Third
Rodion Shchedrin Second (Twenty-five Preludes for Orchestra)
Peteris Vasks' Second
Valentin Vasil'yevich Silvestrov's Fifth
Giya Kancheli's Fourth "In memoria di Michelangelo"
Mieczyslaw Weinberg's Symphony no. XIV

*Symphonies in two movements*
Paul Creston's Second
Darius Milhaud's Seventh

*Symphonies in three movements*
Alexander Glazunov's Fourth
Sir Arnold Bax's Symphonies nos. II, III, VI
Artur Kapp's First Symphony (w/ a wonderful theme et variations last movement)
Eduard Tubin's Second
Cesar Franck's Symphony in D
Ernest Chausson's Symphony in B
Bruckner's Ninth
Benjamin Frankel's Second
Howard Hanson's First
Kurt Atterberg's Second & Sixth
Myaskovsky's Symphonies nos. II, XX, XXV, & XXVII
Adolfs Skulte's Second "Ave Sol"
Darius Milhaud's Second
Albert Roussel's Second
Leonard Bernstein's First "Jeremiah"
Janis Ivanovs' Symphonies nos. II, XVII
David Diamond's First
Martinu's Sixth
Kabalevsky's Second
Boris Tchaikovsky's Second
Edison Denisov's Symphony (1987)

*Symphonies in five movements*
Gordan Jacob's First Symphony
Sibelius' "Kullervo" Symphony
Robert Schumann's Third "Rhenish"
Karl Goldmark's First "Rustic Wedding"
Ernst von (Erno) Dohnanyi's First
Hugo Alfven's Symphony no. II
Mieczyslaw Weinberg's Sixth
Charles Ives' Symphony no. II


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## Kibbles Croquettes

Well, I think it's up to me to hype Webern's symphony, op. 21. It's in two short movements, lasting about ten minutes. The atmosphere in the work is very strong and unique.

The first movement, with its transparent lightly shimmering figures in the high register remind me of a cool summer night when the sky is clear, the moon is shining but still it's very dark. The atmosphere is very static: there isn't a strong sense of _going anywhere_, but at the same time the calmly flowing texture seems to move in _just the right way_ and always be in a constant change: absolutely fantastic melodies and sonorities follow each other very naturally. Like clouds passing over the moon in the sky.

The second movement is quite different. It is a set of variations, it seems to be more actively in motion and does feature some very dynamic and forward-moving (that's a word, at least it's now!) moments, of which probably the most memorable is the horn solo (which is not quoted only by Schnittke in his 2nd sonata for violin and piano but is also featured in the hilarius "12-tone commercial" spoof).


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## Rhombic

Apart from the Myaskovsky symphonies (the majority of which I adore), an especially interesting symphony (and intersecting, as my autocorrect helpfully pointed out) is two-movement Borodin's 3rd Symphony, even though it is an unfinished one.

I am particularly fond of the 3-movement Lyatoshynsky's First Symphony, despite it being rather inferior to his third symphony which does not meet these criteria. Lyatoshynsky's Fourth and Fifth symphonies, which also consist of three movements, are another marvellous masterpieces of the 20th Century symphonic creations. Definitely a must for anyone interested in Soviet symphonies.


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## QuietGuy

Howard Hanson's Symphony #2 ("Romantic")


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## Kibbles Croquettes

dholling said:


> Myaskovsky's Symphonies nos. II, XX, XXV, & XXVII


I love the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 2nd symphony. I had forgotten about it, but I think I'll listen to it right now!


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## Chronochromie

I'll second Messian's Turangalila, Schumann's 3rd and Schubert's Unfinished.


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## Orfeo

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> I love the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 2nd symphony. I had forgotten about it, but I think I'll listen to it right now!


Me too. It is a profoundly written movement (and quite beautiful), with all the blueprints to his later scores.


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## aajj

Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
Mozart No. 38 'Prague'
Ives No. 2 
Beethoven No. 6
Sibelius No. 7
Nielsen No. 5
Schubert No. 8 'Unfinished' (i cannot exclude it!)


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## Rhombic

I almost forgot of Myaskovsky's magnificent tenth symphony! Here is a great article about it, just to give you reasons to listen to it: http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/feb/18/symphony-guide-myaskovskys-tenth-tom-service


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## Queen of the Nerds

Delicious Manager said:


> Some of mine:
> 
> *Single movement (complete works)*
> Barber
> Lutosławski 3 & 4
> Sibelius 7
> Simpson 9
> Weill 1
> 
> *Symphonies in two movements*
> Mahler 8
> Nielsen 5
> Prokofiev 2
> Saint-Saëns 3
> *Schubert 8*
> 
> *Symphonies in three movements*
> Chausson
> Haydn 26
> Honegger 1-5
> Mozart 31 & 32
> Prokofiev 6
> Shostakovich 4 & 6
> Stravinsky
> Weill 2
> 
> *Symphonies in five movements*
> Beethoven 6
> Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
> Mahler - 2, 5 & 7
> Shostakovich 8, 9 & 13
> Tchaikovsky 3
> *Lalo- Symphonie Espagnole*
> 
> *Symphonies in six movements*
> Havergal Brian Gothic
> Haydn 60
> Mahler 3


Added two, if you don't mind.


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## Funny

Well, Delicious Manager beat me to this but Haydn #60 is a fantastic piece with one of the best musical jokes of all time in the 6th movement, the one where the strings have to stop the whole movement dead so they can tune their instruments before taking it from the top and starting the whole thing over again.


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## KenOC

Delicious Manager has a great list but oddly missed Mozart's #38, "Prague" in the three-movement section. Hard to beat that one!


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## aajj

I already submitted a list but a fresh listen to Stravinsky's Symphony for Wind Instruments reminded me how fine it is. 
The recording was Dutoit with members of the Montreal Symphony.


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## Azol

A couple more:

1-movement:
*Silvestrov: Symphony No.5*

5-movement:
*Raff: Symphony No.1*


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## Autocrat

I'll add Gorecki 3.


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## superhorn

The magnificent symphony in C major by Paul Duks is his only one, and in three movements . . ( Apparently he destroyed another as well as much of his output ), I've never been able to understand the neglect of this great work . It's very much in the Franckian tradition, but I actually prefer it to the Franck symphony , although I still like it .
It's a bold, heroic symphony , and it should knock your socks off ! The last live performance in America I know of was about 15 years ago with Leonard Slatkin and the NY Phil. He also recorded it for RCA with the French National orchestra . 
Other conductors who have recorded it include Jean Martinon , Jean Fournet , Yan-Pascal Tortelier and Walter Weller . I first got to know the symphony with the Weller recording, which as far as I know has not been reuissued onCD . It should, as it's a stunning performance !


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## hpowders

Peter Mennin Symphony No. 7.


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## Bridgetower

Beethoven's 6th, Mozart's 38th, Schubert's Unfinished, the Symphonie Fantastique, and Haydn's 60th. If I knew more I would list them.


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## Polyphemus

Mahler 2
Mahler 3
Simpson 9
Sibelius 7
Shostakovich 4
Saint Saens 3
Havergal Brian 1
Nielsen 5
I would also make a special case for Penderecki Symphony 1 which is arguably a one movement symphony though it is 4 movements played continuously. The choice is yours.


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## hapiper

I'll say I don't usually count how many movements what I am listening to has but off the top of my head I'll have to say Beethoven's 6th. I may listen to others with more or less than 4 but I couldn't say which.


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## Handel

Good question.

5 movements: From those I know, I think Beethoven's 6th is the best
3 movements: tons to chose from. I think already of two: Joseph Martin Kraus (1756-1792), symphony in C minor (VB 142) and Felix Mendelssohn, strings symphony number XII in G minor.
2 movements: Schubert's 8th.


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## DeepR

csacks said:


> Just remembered!! Scriabin´s 1,2 and 3. None of them have 4 movements


Yep, Scriabin 1 has six movements even. You can look at the first movement as a prelude and the sixth as sort of an epilogue and then movements 2,3,4,5 are in the more traditional symphonic structure.


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## Il_Penseroso

Berlioz Symphonie fantastique 

Saint-Saëns Symphony No.3 

Sibelius Symphony No.3 (and if the first movement not counted as two individual separated ones, Symphony No.5) 

Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole looks like a composition mainly written for violin with an orchestral accompaniment rather than a symphony and symphonic concepts...


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## Classicalophile

The Planets by Gustav Holst


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## hpowders

Allan Pettersson's Seventh Symphony.

One long stream of consciousness movement. Devastating!


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## pierrot

Sibelius Seventh, although is hard for me to see an one movement symphony as a proper symphony.


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## Sina

One that I'm sure nobody here has heard, but is amazingly great:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

A few favourites...

Sibelius 7
Mahler 7
Turangalîla-Symphony
Saint-Saëns 3
Mozart 38
Shostakovich 2


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> A few favourites...
> 
> Sibelius 7
> Mahler 7
> Turangalîla-Symphony
> *Saint-Saëns 3*
> Mozart 38
> Shostakovich 2


It's so often recorded in 4 tracks - I learned something today!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

nathanb said:


> It's so often recorded in 4 tracks - I learned something today!


Yes, my only recording is split into 4 tracks at Ia Ib IIa and IIb. I suppose since there are several distinct sections within the movements they are going to end up split into different tracks like many recordings of Sibelius's 7th.


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## Machiavel

Cesar Franck symphony in D minor

Berlioz Roméo et Juliette


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## Johnnie Burgess

Manxfeeder said:


> Personally, I think Mahler's 3rd is great. Each movement is a progression from the one before.
> 
> Another personal observation, Roy Harris' 3rd symphony is one movement but five parts. Wiki has a quote about it from Haskins: "his work is considered an influential work that uses a number of techniques that have become common in subsequent American classical music, including 'massive but spacious textures; a new emphasis on vital, syncopated rhythms... and a rich harmonic palette.'" It's also easy to play, which is a plus.


Yes, both Mahler and Harris Symphonies number 3 are very good.:tiphat:


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## Merl

Beethoven 6, Mahler 5 and Berwald 3 for me off the top of my head.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Merl said:


> Beethoven 6, Mahler 5 and Berwald 3 for me off the top of my head.


Mahler liked breaking the mold of 4 movement symphonies.


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