# Why Mozart is Dreadful: An Homage



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Ok, it's time to bash Mozart for a while! Ready? On the count of three...

_Amadeus_ doesn't really do this guy justice. "Child prodigy" is just another name for someone who doesn't know what it's like to work really hard at something. I mean, come on! He didn't even have to try. He just sat down and wrote the stuff in like five minutes. He won the gene pool jackpot with pure dumb luck.

Mozart?

Moztrash, more like.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I am learning gradually to appreciate Mozart, especially his later works. If he had lived a bit longer, no doubt he would have been as appealing to me as Beethoven. What I have not liked about Mozart are his musical gestures for lack of a better word. I hear an awful lot of what is for me distasteful teasing in his phrases -- all those appoggiaturas. It's just personal taste. Both Beethoven and Haydn did the same thing, just not quite as often or as obviously to me.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

And those _Topics!_ Always using such topics like Alberti bass, Learned Style (counterpoint), Hunting horns, Sturm und Drang. OK OK we get it! UGH! There are names for such people who use Topics as a way to actually fill out their pieces and not really compose. They're known as being... _Typical_.

:tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

But please, let's not overlook Mozart's astonishing musical development. At six, he was writing music of a 12-year old. By his 30s, his music was that of a 15-year old. Not bad, eh?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Mozart=Freemason=CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!!!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Celloman said:


> "Child prodigy" is just another name for someone who doesn't know what it's like to work really hard at something. I mean, come on! He didn't even have to try. He just sat down and wrote the stuff in like five minutes. He won the gene pool jackpot with pure dumb luck.


Yup, this incredible laziness was a feature of his life throughout his (fortunately relatively brief) career. I mean, look at his last symphony: instead of just writing a few more symphonies, like Haydn would have done, he decides to cram six themes into the last movement, playing them all at the same time so the whole thing is just a cacophony that would have made Schoenberg proud.

No, give me good old Salieri any time.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Yup, this incredible laziness was a feature of his life throughout his (fortunately relatively brief) career. I mean, look at his last symphony: instead of just writing a few more symphonies, like Haydn would have done, he decides to cram six themes into the last movement, playing them all at the same time so the whole thing is just a cacophony that would have made Schoenberg proud.
> 
> No, give me good old Salieri any time.


I thought it was only five? And don't you think it is disgraceful that he didn't even compose his own symphonies 2 and 3? Same can be said for his first few piano concerti! He didn't come up with any of the material for himself!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Repetitive trill on the dominant chord is quite annoying.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Mozart=Freemason=CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!!!


Yes, apart from his horrid music, he actually planned to take over the U.S. government and sell out America to aliens.



ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I thought it was only five?


Oh, yes, my apologies to the maestro. Anyway, play any more than three tunes simultaneously and it all begins to sound the same anyway.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Take out from Bach the intellect, the counterpoint, the minor keys, the black keys of the keyboard, the technique, the transcendence and profundity of his music, the years of experience, and you will have Mozart (minus some trills and appoggiaturas).


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## maestro57 (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't know this Mozart bloke. I will listen to a few pieces on YouTube and chime in with my bashing another time.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Yes, apart from his horrid music, he actually planned to take over the U.S. government and sell out America to aliens.


Actually I wouldn't mind that so much.....



> Oh, yes, my apologies to the maestro. Anyway, play any more than three tunes simultaneously and it all begins to sound the same anyway.


:lol: too true


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I saw the film Amadeus, it's obvious this guy just acted like a clown, wearing pink wigs and acting like an infant.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

Not to mention his weird obsession with buttocks and faeces


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

Let's not forget that Mozart was writing for a market, i.e. what the punters, be it aristocratic commissions or the paying public, wanted to hear. That he died in poverty had less to do with his incredibly vast output than the vagaries of the market itself and his own predilection for living the highlife.

And really when you listen to his opera (he was after all first and foremost a composer of opera) or his piano concertos for example, it's just not realistic to label him "dreadful" over and above matters of personal taste - ours not his.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

It's funny how people still take the 'an homage' threads seriously.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KRoad said:


> Let's not forget that Mozart was writing for a market


I'd be too scared to step foot in any market or place that sells things that Mozart wrote "Lick Me in the ****" for!


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'd be too scared to step foot in any market or place that sells things that Mozart wrote "Lick Me in the ****" for!


Very popular in many a Red Light area I could imagine and, after all, there's a time and certainly a place for every delectation...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Plus, nothing good ever came out of 8th century Byzantium, and he's the proof!


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

KRoad said:


> And really when you listen to his opera (he was after all first and foremost a composer of opera) or his piano concertos for example, it's just not realistic to label him "dreadful" over and above matters of personal taste - ours not his.


his operas are even worse! his first "important" opera had a sea monster attempt to eat one of the main characters, the next one saw two inept Westerners fail to abduct their own girlfriends, the next one is about a wedding (he certainly adds the _soap_ to the term soap opera - makes baby Wagner cry), then there's the highly acclaimed (?!) one about the date rapist who gets dragged to hell (no doubt to appease foaming feminists) - but he doesn't stop there! the next one is about two sisters so dumb they couldn't even tell their boyfriends apart  He finishes in style with a stuffy one about a needy Roman emperor and a bizarre one about a guy in a bird suit. And let's not talk about the music.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

KenOC said:


> But please, let's not overlook Mozart's astonishing musical development. At six, he was writing music of a 12-year old. By his 30s, his music was that of a 15-year old. Not bad, eh?


I love that logic.

:lol:


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

It would be interesting to hear from Bellbottom.


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## Pysmythe (May 11, 2014)

starry said:


> I saw the film Amadeus, it's obvious this guy just acted like a clown, wearing pink wigs and acting like an infant.


And, ah, but he did have three heads, didn't he? One on his shoulders, one in his breeches, and one up his rear, perhaps in an infantile search for more "cohesive" dookey material.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

KenOC said:


> But please, let's not overlook Mozart's astonishing musical development. At six, he was writing music of a 12-year old. By his 30s, his music was that of a 15-year old. Not bad, eh?


Too bad he just started to decompose after that.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Ah Mozart...Just another Muzio Clementi wannabe.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Personally I will defend Mozart, an astounding composer who was way ahead of his time. He was writing his music before we even had the elevators in which to not really listen to it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

starry said:


> I saw the film Amadeus, it's obvious this guy just acted like a clown, wearing pink wigs and acting like an infant.


Of course we all know the film gives us a true and deadly accurate historical picture of Mozart!

Just like Braveheart gives us a true and accurate picture of William Wallace!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If you are looking for an accurate picture of Mozart, I'm afraid this is it.

The one on the right.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

And the bloke was so hopeless with names - I mean to say, *Papageno* & *Papagena*, *Tamino* &* Pamina*; obviously *no imagination whatsoever!**

(*Hmmm - wonder whether his family came from Norfolk originally, where we have village streets called 'The Street' & houses named 'The Cottage' & 'The Bungalow'?)


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes, he's the one on the left...


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't know which is worse: starting an opera involving a large mechanical goose, or failing to finish one.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

He was an arrogant little pr--k, from what I gather. I'd like to give him a good thump.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes, I believe he did like to prink a lot - quite a natty little creature...


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Did I really start this thread? :lol:

No, seriously...Mozart was all right. He wasn't as bad as Bach or Beethoven.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Celloman said:


> Did I really start this thread? :lol:
> 
> No, seriously...Mozart was all right. He wasn't as bad as Bach or Beethoven.


then, you'd better go to the confessional and ask for mercy

although I do not think it will be easily provided

Mozart was a genious, and he really pushed the boundaries with many of his concertos

Other times his pieces are fine, delicate, pure jewels

He brings life to music and a listener can find great depths of insight.

I read this "exploding the myth of Mozart" article and I do not think it's fair

maybe you read it as well

Abbado was not accidentally attracted to Mozart's music


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> then, you'd better go to the confessional and ask for mercy
> 
> although I do not think it will be easily provided
> 
> ...


A perfect description. Thanks! :tiphat:


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

And here I am thinking other than writing some of the most wonderful works imaginable, what did Mozart ever do for Classical music.
He didn't even seem to have to try either!


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## Pysmythe (May 11, 2014)

Mozart, pffft... A privileged member of the 1% of the 1%... Round up the bongos and the tamborines and let's all go burn his house down!


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## Gangwolf (Apr 26, 2014)

There is too much singing in his operas, and he hasn't done anything really good for a very long time.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Pysmythe said:


> Mozart, pffft... A privileged member of the 1% of the 1%... Round up the bongos and the tamborines and let's all go burn his house down!


do not forget to put your mask on, when lighting the fire


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## Pysmythe (May 11, 2014)

clara s said:


> do not forget to put your mask on, when lighting the fire


The one made in Venice!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Pysmythe said:


> The one made in Venice!


aha

a cultural anti-Mozartean

yes, with the Venetian mask, you might avoid being arrested
and be forced to listen to "the magic flute"


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## EDaddy (Nov 16, 2013)

And how dare God break the mold when he made Mozart! And how dare Mozart make benign music like his Piano Concertos #21 or 24...? or his puny Jupiter symphony? or his shallow Requiem Mass? Nigh a memorable melody... nigh even a trace of genius to be found...

Oh poor, poor Mozart!


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## Pysmythe (May 11, 2014)

clara s said:


> aha
> 
> a cultural anti-Mozartean
> 
> ...


There are worse things in life. Not many, but some. Like 'Fidelio,' for example. Not the opera, but using the word as a password to certain obscure parties where Venetian masks are worn...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Requiem is shallow since a hack had to finish it. Imagine how great it could have been!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Gangwolf said:


> *There is too much singing in his operas,* and he hasn't done anything really good for a very long time.


Reminds me of the gal I took to the opera. When I asked how she liked it, she replied, "It would have been better without all that singing."


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

I went to a restaurant once where the food was awful.

My wife agreed and also commented "and such small portions" :tiphat:


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> I don't know which is worse: starting an opera involving a large mechanical goose, or failing to finish one.


Deffo starting as it's better not to distress an audience from the very beginning.


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

Celloman said:


> Did I really start this thread? :lol:
> 
> No, seriously...Mozart was all right. He wasn't as bad as Bach or Beethoven.


Ooh I think you're pulling our plonkers


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

Weston said:


> I am learning gradually to appreciate Mozart, especially his later works. If he had lived a bit longer, no doubt he would have been as appealing to me as Beethoven. What I have not liked about Mozart are his musical gestures for lack of a better word. I hear an awful lot of what is for me distasteful teasing in his phrases -- all those appoggiaturas. It's just personal taste. Both Beethoven and Haydn did the same thing, just not quite as often or as obviously to me.


I think he covered all the bases in a short life. What was left to do?


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

aleazk said:


> Too bad he just started to decompose after that.


Is that a metaphoric reference?


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## Metairie Road (Apr 30, 2014)

A Buddhist monk of my acquaintance, who recently returned from a dirty weekend in Las Vegas; told me that Mozart was reincarnated some years ago and is now working in a piano bar a few blocks off the strip.

He told my friend "I'm having a blast here in Las Vegas, now that I don't have to compose any more crap for the european nobility to make a living."


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

One must question what your Buddhist Monk friend was doing in Sin City. As regards Wolfie he is working for the new nobility all of whose first name is 'Don' and so play on and have fun with the showgirls.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Pysmythe said:


> There are worse things in life. Not many, but some. Like 'Fidelio,' for example. Not the opera, but using the word as a password to certain obscure parties where Venetian masks are worn...


aha again

you must have seen "eyes wide shut" too many times


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

Metairie Road said:


> A Buddhist monk of my acquaintance, who recently returned from a dirty weekend in Las Vegas; told me that Mozart was reincarnated some years ago and is now working in a piano bar a few blocks off the strip.


Dirty little buddha


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## Gondur (May 17, 2014)

I detest Mozart's music. It screams 'I am a needy spoilt child and I want attention' and you will give it to me because my music is melodramatic and easy to listen to. There is nothing beautiful or profound about it. It's utter trite and was probably the 'modern' pop music of its era.


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## Svelte Silhouette (Nov 7, 2013)

Gondur said:


> I detest Mozart's music. It screams 'I am a needy spoilt child and I want attention' and you will give it to me because my music is melodramatic and easy to listen to. There is nothing beautiful or profound about it. It's utter trite and was probably the 'modern' pop music of its era.


If you'd care to supply your home address


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

In Mozart's defense: at least he didn't grow a beard, like Brahms. He was a lot cuter than Bach or Dvorak, too.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> In Mozart's defense: at least he didn't grow a beard, like Brahms. He was a lot cuter than Bach or Dvorak, too.


My living room wall is cuter than Bach or Dvorak. If Dvorak approached you, wouldn't you scream hysterically?


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

I knew a guy at the chess club who didn't like Mozart. I called him a Neanderthal.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> I don't know which is worse: starting an opera involving a large mechanical goose, or failing to finish one.


If _only_ this opera were completed by Beethoven; maybe the mechanical goose could then have been adapted to give the audience a surprise rendition of _Wellington's Victory_. Icing on the cake, my friends...


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Gangwolf said:


> There is too much singing in his operas, and he hasn't done anything really good for a very long time.


Spot on I say
Dying is a poor excuse if your a god


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

You definitely have to be a pretty dreadful composer for me to thoroughly enjoy the hundreds upon hundreds of different compositions that poured from his nectarean soul. I mean, who in their right mind would write so much good music?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Vivaldi? Tell-Da-Mann? D Scarlatti?


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## Pysmythe (May 11, 2014)

clara s said:


> aha again
> 
> you must have seen "eyes wide shut" too many times


I was hoping that you would get that reference... and also, that it wasn't too risque. 

(I do try, I'll give myself that much.)


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