# Best piece of Bach?



## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

Which one? Being so, would likely be also the best piece of classical music...


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Probably his Mass in B Minor. Although some might disagree I'd feel you'd get a large agreement from people on this. It's Wikipedia page is the only one for a piece of music with the line "widely hailed as one of the greatest compositions in musical history".


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

St. Matthew Passion for me. But I don't consider any of Bach as the best pieces of music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

WTC Books One and Two.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

I couldn't pick just one they all have their moments in place number one. Right now I'm completely in love with the _St. John Passion_. Amazing.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

"Officially" Mass in B minor (according to most critics)

But, here's my personal experience with Bach:

Goldberg variations - Love it, but I kind of had enough of it already, listened to it a bit too much
Brandenburg concertos - Interesting, warm, accessible orchestral music
Toccata and Fugue (if it's really his work): feels quite dark and even has a modern feel, unforgettable, haunting piece, love it
Mass in B Minor: (officially his best work) Listened to it too few times to really get it, not as accessible as Handel's Messiah, and repeated listenings aren't very easily done, due to length of work and its subject matter (gotta be in mood for it)
Art of Fugue: Excellent, profound, not easy on first listening, but the more you listen to it, the better it gets
Orchestral Suites: Similar to Brandenburg concertos... interesting, lively, accessible music
Cantatas: Overwhelmed by their sheer number... Listened just to Coffee cantata... not really impressed
Well-tempered clavier: Quite a large work, a bit technical IMO, and not as expressive as Goldberg Variations or Art of Fugue
Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor: some say it's his best work; I find it good, but not really that impressive


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## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

JosefinaHW said:


> I couldn't pick just one they all have their moments in place number one. Right now I'm completely in love with the _St. John Passion_. Amazing.


I agree. St. John's Passion is supernatural and may be my favorite also. Beyond amazing. But so is mass in B minor and essentially everything of Bach.


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## Boston Charlie (Dec 6, 2017)

I like the concerto for 2 violins; the concerto for violin & oboe; not so much the piano and violin concertos.

Also, I like the motets, a handful of cantatas, the St. Matthew and St. John Passions; and I guess I'm not the only one here who likes the St. John more than the St. Matthew.

Works for solo violin or solo cello are also quite wonderful; then there's also the Brandenburg Concertos and the Orchestral Suites. 

While I pretty much avoided HIP recordings for many years, I've come around regard to Masaaki Suzuki as the foremost conductor in Bach.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

1. WTC
2. Goldberg Variations
3. Art of Fugue
4. Mass in B minor
5. St. Matthew Passion


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

I wouldn't say I like the St. John better than the St. Matthew; I LOVE them both. It all depends on my mood, what's going on in my life, etc.. The St. John is a piece in a category all by itself; it's esoteric, like the cello suites, but in a different way. Amazing.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Tough to say what work is the best, when he composed so many 'best' works. My favorite is probably the WTC, but is it his best? Hard to say, these ones are also up there for me:

St. Matthew Passion
Violin Partita BWV 1004
Mass in B minor
Clavier Ubung III


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

After seeing the St Matthew Pasion last ( good)Friday, for now that will do.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Every one in a while I try to get people to watch the Berlin Philharmonic's ritualizations of the two Passions. There are two different versions of the St. Matthew.

I know Pugg thought they are too dark and that Simon Rattle has long been out of his mind, but they are two of the most amazing things I have ever seen in my life. Especially Konnen Tranen (Yes, I have to print out a list of the keys I need to press to get the umlauts and accents, etc. sigh). You can view these on the Berlin Philharmonic's digital concert hall. Almost all the interviews on there are free, but very few of the concerts are free. As I've said many times, they frequently give me two-day or seven-day passes, I hold on to them for such as occasions as this.

The preview videos do none of the performances any justice whatsoever, but check them out and let me know if any of you are interested in watching:


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

My motivations for offering the free passes are not entirely altruistic: I really would love to talk with someone else who has watched and loved these performances.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

The Mass in B Minor gets the vote of the critics it seems. Benjamin Britten said that the B minor Mass was, with its spiritual antithesis, Schubert's Winterreise, one of the twin peaks of Western civilization.

Because nobody has mentioned this cantata specifically, I'll vote for BWV 82 Ich habe genug as the Bach piece that I *love* most.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I would never try to choose a "best" work by any of the greatest composers, and certainly not a best work across all the centuries of music. But if Bach is one of the greatest of composers - which I think he is - I don't think any single work represents him better than the _B-minor Mass_ in exhibiting all his craft and power of expression. The range of feeling, from the somber "Kyrie eleison" to the mysterious "Et incarnatus" to the ecstatic "Gloria in excelsis," is immense, and the choral writing is simply mind-blowing in its complexity and splendor.

When I was living in New England during and after my college years, I would attend every performance of this work I could, and such is the challenge and sense of occasion the piece carries with it that I can't remember any performance being less than excellent or failing to send my mind and heart soaring. There are other works of Bach as masterful, but this is music to set the stars to dancing.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

St. Matthew Passion, clearly for me (I don't particularly like the Mass in B minor). But, although Bach is my #1 composer, there are other works I rate even higher (Mahler's DLVDE, Bruckner's 9th).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

One piece, not a bunch fastened together: Probably the Chaconne for solo violin. Or maybe the Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. Of course some might claim that even they are smaller pieces fastened together!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> One piece, not a bunch fastened together: Probably the Chaconne for solo violin. Or maybe the Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. Of course some might claim that even they are smaller pieces fastened together!


But note: the OP is asking for the best piece of Bach, not the best piece written by Bach. I'll nominate the piece that resulted in 20 children, though his wives may have felt otherwise.


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

The St Matthew Passion. Has a claim to be that the greatest work of music ever written by a man.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

b minor Mass for me.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I don't have a problem with it being the b Minor Mass or one of the two great passions. Or the 48 or - is this allowed? - the 6 Brandenburgs. These are all big long works. So much gets left behind because many wonderful smaller pieces (say, a single cantata or the Magnificat or a single concerto) would be hard to choose as "the best" in competition with these towering works.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Brandenburg concertos ... which are as close to being "one piece of music" as WTC, the B minor mass or St. Matthew Passion.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

larold said:


> Brandenburg concertos ...


Love the B'burgs....great music....I also love the orchestral suites - esp 1,3 and 4...


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm surprised at the number of people who are somewhat ambivalent to the Mass in B Minor. To me, it is so clearly the best composition of Bach and the best musical composition in history. 

Although I guess if we all agreed on these things there wouldn't be much point to TC .


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## leonsm (Jan 15, 2011)

Difficult question, but I would say Mass in B minor or Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor (honorary mentions to Brandenburg Concerto no. 5 and Harpsichord Concerto no. 1).


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

BachIsBest said:


> I'm surprised at the number of people who are somewhat ambivalent to the Mass in B Minor. To me, it is so clearly the best composition of Bach and the best musical composition in history.
> 
> Although I guess if we all agreed on these things there wouldn't be much point to TC .


No ambivalence on my part: I adore the B Minor Mass. I mentioned the two Passions because they have had my attention recently. Other works that I love and have listened to frequently in the past several months: The Cantatas (taken as a whole), Cello Suites, Other Sacred Works (taken as a whole), Numerous Cti/; Numerous Sonatas.

I'm not qualified to pick the greatest piece of CM. I don't have one favorite, over all.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Some questions are unanswerable:

Bach's best piece? is one of them, in all honesty. So many great works. Diffiering opinions among the TC population.


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## Beet131 (Mar 24, 2018)

1a B minor Mass (Impossible for me to ignore)
1b St. Matthew Passion (Tied for first)
2a Well Tempered Klavier (Some of the greatest piano music ever)
2b Goldberg Variations (Tied for second)
3 Brandenburg Concertos
4 Orchestral Suites
5 Piano Concertos
6 Violin Partitas
7 Cello Suites
8 Violin Concertos
9 Oboe Concertos


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

I have no opinion on the best piece, however............. I rarely react to music so strongly that I am brought to tears but I once heard the D major fugue from book 1 (I think BWV 850) played with such exquisite ornaments, it was like part of my soul I didn't yet know was there. 

VERY rare experience for a jaded listener like me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bach, J S: English Suite No. 2 in A minor, BWV807/ Bach, J S: English Suite No. 3 in G minor, BWV808.
Performed by: Ivo Pogorelich


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> Every one in a while I try to get people to watch the Berlin Philharmonic's ritualizations of the two Passions...


The full performance of the St Matthew's is freely available online:


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## Lionheart (Apr 5, 2018)

Musical offering - it perfectly represents Bach, in it's complexity it is a piece no other composer in history could have written.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Lionheart said:


> Musical offering - it perfectly represents Bach, in it's complexity it is a piece no other composer in history could have written.


You see, we can all have a different taste , welcome to Talk Classical Lionheart


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Mal said:


> The full performance of the St Matthew's is freely available online:


Wonderful news, Mal. The video and audio quality is very poor in comparison to the recording on the DCC, but I am thrilled to know that people can watch it for free. Later I'll copy and paste your post into the Sacred Music section of the Forum.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't contend that the Coffee Cantata is "better" than other Bach works (like say the B Minor Mass), BUT the Coffee Cantata is the single work that I find myself listening to the most whenever I'm in the mood for Bach.

The irony is I prefer a nice cuppa tea.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Besides the obvious *Mass in B Minor*, I wonder why no one has mentioned *Christmas Oratorio* yet - an undisputable highlight for me.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2018)

This might add another ingredient to this discussion:



> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/arts/music/bach-religion-music.html


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Azol said:


> Besides the obvious *Mass in B Minor*, I wonder why no one has mentioned *Christmas Oratorio* yet - an undisputable highlight for me.


I included both Oratorios in my "Other Sacred Music" post.  Some people MIGHT criticize the Christmas Oratorio because Bach used a great deal of music he had previously composed, but it's been argued at length by musicologist Eric Chafe that Bach re-used (parodied) musical material because he thought it greatly conveyed the meaning/intended-emotional response of the audience. If you think you did a fabulous job conveying the message of "Gloria" well then use it again to say "Gloria." I don't think Chafe would dismiss the extreme time-pressure Bach was under, but this use of parody was the exception, not the rule.

And, yes, a very warm welcome!


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Christabel said:


> This might add another ingredient to this discussion:


Interesting. You might want to post this somewhere in the Sacred Music section of the forum where people would be able to discuss it at length.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)

JosefinaHW said:


> Interesting. You might want to post this somewhere in the Sacred Music section of the forum where people would be able to discuss it at length.


Cheers; I'll do that.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

I haven't listened to some important pieces yet, like St Matthew Passion, but of those works that I have listened to so far, right now, my absolute favorite is this:


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## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

^Amazing to follow the score!


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I wonder what did Bach consider his best work...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm currently obsessed with his keyboard music, especially Die Kunst der Fuge, as well as his motets. As for the best... I don't know. The obvious choices are the Mass, the Matthew Passion, and the WTC... but somehow I doubt that it's one of those.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Fabulin said:


> I wonder what did Bach consider his best work...


Any answer to this question is, of course, speculation but I doubt his answers would differ too much from ours. We know that amongst the Bach Household the St. Mathews Passion was referred to more favourably than the St. John's and Bach himself appeared to hold this view. As the Mass in B minor was composed for no obvious commercial or personal reason the most likely theory behind its creation remains that it is a sort of showcase piece for Bach's best coral writing, selected, by Bach. The obvious implication is that Bach would rank it highly among his work and adding to this theory is that his son, C.P.E. Bach, originally catalogued it as 'The Great Catholic Mass'. It is also well-known that Bach viewed the Art of Fugue, especially the last fugue, as a sort of cumulation of his composing (or at least his keyboard contrapuntal writing).

I would, therefore, speculate that one of these three pieces would be Bach's choice for his 'personal best' (if he had one at all). I would also say that the Mass in B minor and the Art of Fugue, particularly the Art of Fugue, have the strongest claim. If anyone more informed has something to add to this I would appreciate the insight as well.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm not an expert on "best", but the D Minor keyboard concerto always holds me tightly in its spell:


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> I'm not an expert on "best", but the D Minor keyboard concerto always holds me tightly in its spell:


 What a performance too!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

b minor Mass...one of himanity's greatest creations....


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I've performed the B minor mass and St. Matthew Passion; both are magnificent works. However, I've never found they wear very well for home listening. I have always thought of the Brandenburg concertos as Bach's best all-around works.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> b minor Mass...one of himanity's greatest creations....


That's the way that we always feel drawn to describe Bach's great Mass - we don't just praise the work's greatness but we always (it seems) need to refer to its standing as something that is at the very pinnacle of what humanity has done. I'm sure I have used the same words ... even though there may be Bach works that I enjoy even more and consider even greater. The Mass is big. The 48 are as great or greater but they are Bach's achievement rather than an achievement of our species!


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

My favorite work by Bach is the *3rd Partita for solo violin, BWV 1006. *


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ras said:


> My favorite work by Bach is the *3rd Partita for solo violin, BWV 1006. *


Well that got my attention!

What do you hear in that one which makes it so special for you? Do you know any recorded performance which you think are particularly interesting?


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Well that got my attention!
> 
> What do you hear in that one which makes it so special for you? Do you know any recorded performance which you think are particularly interesting?


*Bach 6 works for solo violin BWV 1001-1006 takes the top six spots in my Bach top ten and 1006 tops the list because I don't know why! *Because it is so *light and so "superficial" (sorry, I can't think of a better word) almost naive* compared to the other works for solo violin. It's light and superficial and naive the same way that an early piano sonata by Haydn or Mozart is light etc. or like some pianists like Perahia or A. Schiff plays Bach's English Suites. I do love the heavy stuff like the fuges in the three sonatas for solo violin and I do love the great ciachonne from the 2nd partita that everybody is raving about, but by a slight margin I prefer the 3rd partita above the others. I tend to listen to all six of Bach's works for unaccompanied violin in one go - almost like one long work.

There is a sort of music of this kind which is like a "utopia of cleanness" where it is sometimes nice to rest and savor its beauty.

*Yes, there is a particular performance of BWV 1006 that has always amazed me: Hilary Hahn's debut cd from Sony from 1997 *when she was still a teenager - it was that recording that really got me hooked on these sonatas and partitas for solo violin. (Although I think her performance of the ciachonne of the 2nd partita is a noisy mess).

Another one I remember loving, but haven't listened to for a while is *Nathan Milstein's DG recording.*

Otherwise I just reach for *my usual period favorites for the whole cycle: John Holloway (ECM), Christine Busch (Phi), Richard Tognetti (ABC) etc. etc.*


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Yes Hahn isn't quite what I'm looking for, and in truth I find this suite pretty challenging. The one I like the most is a transcription for viol played by Susanne Heinrich -- it is the complete polar opposite of Hahn, and is really opposed to that "light and superficial" conception!


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Yes Hahn isn't quite what I'm looking for, and in truth I find this suite pretty challenging. The one I like the most is a transcription for viol played by Susanne Heinrich -- it is the complete polar opposite of Hahn, and is really opposed to that "light and superficial" conception!
> 
> View attachment 122269


Hmm, ah, okay... have you tried *Pavlo Beznosiuk* on Linn? - it has a rougher and "earthier" sound than most:


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Ras said:


> Hmm, ah, okay... have you tried *Pavlo Beznosiuk* on Linn? - it has a rougher and "earthier" sound than most:


I do not think it is a question of rough and earthy, but rather a question of refined and deep. And Beznosiuk is anything but refined. Thinking about it I have never met a recording of the E-major partita, which made me want to hear it more than once. (I have not heard Heinrich's recording BTW).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I shall listen to Beznosiuk later.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's Heinrich, one thing I think about this is that it's very much inspired by the instrument, a 7-string bass viol by Bob Eyland after M Colichon. The whole thing's on youtube.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The music has the potential to be really expressive on violin, just going through some recordings my attention was drawn to Sirkka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch's interpretation. Beznosiuk is certainly not refined.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Certain parts Mass in B minor and Art of the Fugue sound dry or academic, I find it's better to listen to them bits by bits over different days and not listen to them straight in one listening.
but there's not a single section I feel this way in Well Tempered Clavier. In this regard, I consider WTC Bach's greatest work. 
Also Mass in G minor BWV235: one of greatest hidden gems in Bach.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Certain parts Mass in B minor and Art of the Fugue sound dry or academic, I find it's better to listen to them bits by bits over different days and not listen to them straight in one listening.
> but there's not a single section I feel this way in Well Tempered Clavier. In this regard, I consider WTC Bach's greatest work.
> Also Mass in G minor BWV235: one of greatest hidden gems in Bach.


Although I very much agree about the mass in G minor one can hardly agree with a characterisation of the mass in B minor as 'academic' and although I might use that word for The Art of Fugue it still warrants a listen through uninterrupted.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Finding the Art of Fugue dry/academic will only happen with those who are listening superficially.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> Finding the Art of Fugue dry/academic will only happen with those who are listening superficially.


Maybe dry but I don't think 'academic' is necessarily a negative word to associate with music. The Art of Fugue is quite probably my own favourite piece of classical music and I would describe it as being 'academic'.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

BachIsBest said:


> Maybe dry but I don't think 'academic' is necessarily a negative word to associate with music. The Art of Fugue is quite probably my own favourite piece of classical music and I would describe it as being 'academic'.


I think of the work as being wonderfully expansive within a tight structure.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

No question in my mind that there St Matthew Passion is not just Bach's greatest work but one of the greatest musical works ever written by a human being.

For a distillation of the man's incredible genius one might look no further than the Chaconne of which Brahms said: "On one stave, for a small instrument, the man [Bach] writes a whole world of the deepest thoughts and most powerful feelings. If I imagined that I could have created, even conceived the piece, I am quite certain that the excess of excitement and earth-shattering experience would have driven me out of my mind."


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

^I never thought of it that way. That Bach could have written something so immense as the Chaconne for a single instrument on a single staff really is a testament to his genius and power as a composer. Is there any other solo violin piece in the history of music that comes close?


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

there is Bach, then there is a long blank space, and then come maybe Wolfie and Luigi. As to his greatest work. Mass in B minor? Art of Fugue? WTC? (one of these 3, I cannot decide which)


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## Euler (Dec 3, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> ^I never thought of it that way. That Bach could have written something so immense as the Chaconne for a single instrument on a single staff really is a testament to his genius and power as a composer. Is there any other solo violin piece in the history of music that comes close?


Maybe not, but the epic fugue from BWV 1005 is a stunner in its own right!


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

I'll always have a soft spot for the Magnificat, given that I was in a choir that did it years back. If pressed for just one, no wait, two works, I'd go for the Art of Fugue and WTC and the cello suites and the Violin Partitas and the Brandenb...oh did I say two works.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> ^Is there any other solo violin piece in the history of music that comes close?


The Bartok solo sonata.

Anyone explored Westhoff?









The booklet to that CD says



> And yet, while Westhoff's suites provide a tantalizing precedent to Bach's later music for unaccompanied violin, they do not reveal a template for the younger composer. Bach was less interested than Westhoff in chordal writing per se. Only the slower dances of Bach's partitas - the sarabande of the first partita, the loure of the third, and passages within the great chaconne - have anything like the concentration of multiple-stopping of Westhoff's suites. Indeed, Bach's courantes use allmost no chords and gigues none. Bach's partitas rely less on actual chords and more on melodic figures and different violin registers that suggest harmonies and counterpoint. The greater length and diversity of dances in Bach's partitas, too, suggest some distance between the two composers' approaches to their unaccompanied suites. There were, then, fundamental similarities in the work of the two composers: both explored the possibilities of dance music on the un-accompanied violin, and both rejected scordatura and extra-musical sound effects that had been intrinsic in German virtuoso playing. But where Westhoff exploited the fullest textures his instrument would allow, Bach experimented with ways in which harmony and counterpoint could be suggested by the solo instrument's melodic line.


Vilsmayr too may be worth exploring


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Ras said:


> My favorite work by Bach is the *3rd Partita for solo violin, BWV 1006. *


I like this version:


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> The Bartok solo sonata.


I haven't heard that work, do you really think it stacks up favorably to the Bach Chaconne? That's pretty amazing if so. I can't say I've heard a single work of Bartók's that matches the Chaconne in passion, raw power, and depth, even with the utility of a full orchestra at his disposal. Though he comes reasonably close with string quartets 3, 4, and 5.

Anyway, I figure you're probably not bluffing. Who do you like for this piece?


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Jacck said:


> *there is Bach, then there is a long blank space, and then come maybe Wolfie and Luigi*. As to his greatest work. Mass in B minor? Art of Fugue? WTC? (one of these 3, I cannot decide which)


Perhaps, but Beethoven and Bach seem to have a comparable popularity here in TC.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Anyway, I figure you're probably not bluffing. Who do you like for this piece?


Barnabas Kelemen


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

I most enjoy listening to his keyboard suites: the English, the French and the partitas. If I had to pick one I guess it would be the A minor suite of the English. Other than that, his cello suites: 5 and 6 are the most profound music I think Bach ever wrote. Where his vocal music is concerned...I most listen to the cantatas: BWV 1, BWV 80, BWV 140, BWV 147...I find them easier to digest. They're very intimate and full of humaneness. The greatest? Probably the B minor Mass. There's so much incredible music in there, like a "greatest hits" of Bach in one place. But the aforementioned is what I listen to the most.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> I haven't heard that work, do you really think it stacks up favorably to the Bach Chaconne? That's pretty amazing if so. I can't say I've heard a single work of Bartók's that matches the Chaconne in passion, raw power, and depth, even with the utility of a full orchestra at his disposal. Though he comes reasonably close with string quartets 3, 4, and 5.
> 
> Anyway, I figure you're probably not bluffing. Who do you like for this piece?





Mandryka said:


> Barnabas Kelemen


That's a work that each time I listen to it, I recall how good it is. First heard it in a recital that included Bach (and maybe Ysaye). As for the Bartok, I only have Tetzlaff on a disc that also includes the two violin sonatas with Andsnes. Have you heard that?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

If I have heard Tetzlaff then I've forgotten. The are four performances of the solo sonata which I remember have impressed me. Most of all and most recently Barnabas Kelemen, but also Leila Josefowicz, Robert Mann (on a CD still available I think from Bartok Records in the USA), and Gidon Kremer.

I'll just mention in passing that I'm VERY keen on Tetzlaff's Schubert -- he's the only one who can make me enjoy the G major quartet! And his second trio is excellent, thought provoking.

I must say, I think it's an amazing bit of music, the Bartok. I mean so is the Bach of course, both are very fine. 

The inequality comes in the fact that the Bach is part of a partita, quite a coherent, integrated suite of music, and it makes a lot of sense in the context, it's impressive as a stand alone piece but in the partita it's even more impressive.

There are some other solo violin pieces I'm keen on -- Berio, for example, and Xenakis, wrote for solo violin.

And if you get to try Barnabas Kelemen and like it, be sure to check his Mozart too.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> If I have heard Tetzlaff then I've forgotten. The are four performances of the solo sonata which I remember have impressed me. Most of all and most recently Barnabas Kelemen, but also Leila Josefowicz, Robert Mann (on a CD still available I think from Bartok Records in the USA), and Gidon Kremer.
> 
> I'll just mention in passing that I'm VERY keen on Tetzlaff's Schubert -- he's the only one who can make me enjoy the G major quartet! And his second trio is excellent, thought provoking.
> 
> ...


About Tetzlaff AND Bach. I heard him give a recital maybe 10 years ago - all six Bach works in one afternoon. There was an extended intermission, so we could all catch our breath. He sees them as a cycle. I've been afraid to buy his recording as it couln't live up to the experience of hearing him live. I wouldn't say that those are my favorite Bach works, but that was my favorite performance.

(I also heard him play one at a private function at the Dakota (where Lennon, Bernstein, and Streisand lived and where Rosemary had her baby).


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

Undecided between anything for organ.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> Undecided between anything for organ.


I would suggest the Leipzig Chorales and Clavier-Ubung III.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> Undecided between anything for organ.


Do you know BWV 548? It's a late organ piece by Bach that, although somewhat unpopular, seems to have substantial appraise by organists, and the first time I listened to it's fugue I was like "WOW!". The Organ Trio Sonatas BWV 525-530, the Pastorale BWV 590 and the already mentioned German Organ Mass (Clavier-Übung III) and Leipzig Chorales are transcendental pieces for the instrument IMO and I highly recommend you to listen to them if you haven't already.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

Allerius said:


> Do you know BWV 548? It's a late organ piece by Bach that, although somewhat unpopular, seems to have substantial appraise by organists, and the first time I listened to it's fugue I was like "WOW!". The Organ Trio Sonatas BWV 525-530, the Pastorale BWV 590 and the already mentioned German Organ Mass (Clavier-Übung III) and Leipzig Chorales are transcendental pieces for the instrument IMO and I highly recommend you to listen to them if you haven't already.


Beautiful! Sometimes I think organ works like this one sound like some haunted place, maybe Pokémon tower in Lavender or Celestial tower somewhere in Unova? Gastly and Litwick can get really creepy!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The fifth Brandenburg Concerto.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kfececnsndckjndckjn


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> Beautiful! Sometimes I think organ works like this one sound like some haunted place, maybe Pokémon tower in Lavender or Celestial tower somewhere in Unova? Gastly and Litwick can get really creepy!


The music of Bach can sound very dark sometimes IMO. If you're interested in it's usage in a video game-like fashion, perhaps you may consider to check some 8-bit transcriptions of his keyboard works:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Allerius said:


> Do you know BWV 548? It's a late organ piece by Bach that, although somewhat unpopular, seems to have substantial appraise by organists, and the first time I listened to it's fugue I was like "WOW!". *The Organ Trio Sonatas BWV 525-530*, the Pastorale BWV 590 and the already mentioned German Organ Mass (Clavier-Übung III) and Leipzig Chorales are transcendental pieces for the instrument IMO and I highly recommend you to listen to them if you haven't already.


I think J.S. Bach has too many "best" pieces for me to pick just one.

I do really like those trio sonatas though and glad you mentioned them. Was recently reading Charles Rosen praising Mozart's masterpiece the Divertimento k. 563 for String Trio, and he suggests only in the Organ Trios BWV 525-530 of Bach is there an equal mastery displayed in writing for 3 voices, and that in the entire common practice period, only Bach and Mozart really understood the contrapuntal demands of writing for 3 voices.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

tdc said:


> I do really like those trio sonatas though and glad you mentioned them. Was recently reading Charles Rosen praising Mozart's masterpiece the Divertimento k. 563 for String Trio, and he suggests only in the Organ Trios BWV 525-530 of Bach is there an equal mastery displayed in writing for 3 voices, and that in the entire common practice period, only Bach and Mozart really understood the contrapuntal demands of writing for 3 voices.


I don't know the article you mentioned, but I think I've seem a critic - Theodor Adorno, I believe - go even further and declare these six organ trios as the greatest music ever composed. I have great esteem for these sonatas, and like to listen to them in the instrument for which they were specifically composed - the organ.

My ears have a clear favoritism towards Walcha when it comes to Bach organ music, but perhaps this is a bias because I discovered most of what I know of it through him. Do you have a most-liked performance for BWV 525-530?


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I love the cello suites, violin suites and Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena very much.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Rogerx said:


> Notenbüchlein für Anna Magdalena very much.


Ah, that's interesting. Have you heard the Klavierbuchlein for WF Bach? There's a recording of it by Joseph Payne which, for reasons I can't explain, really touches me.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Ah, that's interesting. Have you heard the Klavierbuchlein for WF Bach? There's a recording of it by Joseph Payne which, for reasons I can't explain, really touches me.


I believe I have, a long time ago, as I recall it was on harpsichord and organ. Not sure anymore but it's no longer on the shelf.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Allerius said:


> My ears have a clear favoritism towards Walcha when it comes to Bach organ music, but perhaps this is a bias because I discovered most of what I know of it through him. Do you have a most-liked performance for BWV 525-530?


Yes, similarly I first discovered the Trio Sonatas on the Brilliant Classics complete Bach set, (Hans Fagius is the organist), and those have been the versions I usually turn to. I would like to explore more recordings of BWV 525-530 works so thanks for the recommendation.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

tdc said:


> Yes, similarly I first discovered the Trio Sonatas on the Brilliant Classics complete Bach set, (Hans Fagius is the organist), and those have been the versions I usually turn to. I would like to explore more recordings of BWV 525-530 works so thanks for the recommendation.


For an original view, be sure to try Rübsam (Naxos) on the Groningen Schnitger. More recently, Kare Nordstoga recorded them on the Hamburg Schnitger. These are both very big organs, and they seem to fit well with a more baroque than gallant conception of the music - i. e, imposing, challenging sometimes discordant counterpoint, with a spiritual feeling.

For a completely different point of view, much more gallant, Simon Reichert recorded them on the Trost organ at Waltershausen. It's very a colourful instrument. It would be nice to have more of Bach on this type of organ - Waltershausen, Gräfenroda or Naumburg,


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

_"I have given much effort to find another piece of this type by Bach. But it was in vain. This fantasy is unique and has never been second to none."_ -Johann Nikolaus Forkel


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## Agamenon (Apr 22, 2019)

Cello Suites, Violin Partitas and The Art of the Fugue.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Is there any other solo violin piece in the history of music that comes close?


Peter Williams (_Early Music_, 1981) has argued that BWV 565 was originally a violin toccata later transcribed (by Bach? -- I don't know about the manuscripts of this) for organ.


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## leonsm (Jan 15, 2011)

A work not very often remembered is the Toccata in D minor for Harpsichord (BWV 913), It's amazing. This whole set of Toccatas is very good, indeed.


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## numinisgos (May 10, 2017)

Regarding the Trio sonata for organ, BWV 525-30

Koopman on Archiv, 1983 Waalse Kerk Organ, Amsterdam.









Walcha, also on Archiv, recorded in 1969. Included in his recordings of the complete Organ Works. He plays on a Silbermann organ located at the church of Saint-Pierre Jeune in Strasbourg.

My vote though would go to Christopher Herrick, Hyperion 1990. Recorded at Pfarrkirche St Nikolaus, Bremgarten, Switzerland.


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