# So who goes to the Ring?



## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

I took this amusing piece of writing from a blog someone has written using the characters from Wagners ring cycle to identify people who attend Wagners Ring cycle.


This is just a fun way of describing the people we see at different venues, and it's NOT scientifically in any means.

As well as you can compare the Wagner family, the Wagner clan, to the different figures in the Ring, you can also, just for fun, do the same with the audience.


1. The Wotans and Frickas

This the VERY elite of Bayreuth, headed by Fricka herself, or maybe TWO Frickas today. Angela Merkel and Katharina Wagner. Always show up on opening night (July 25) at Festspielhaus in Bayreuth. They are followed by all of Germany's important ones like politicians, fashion icons, head of big companies and so on... We guess some of them only go to opera once a year, on July 25, in Bayreuth, as they are invited.


2. The Freias, Donners and Frohs

This is the second best, the elite of any other operahouse in the world. Invited to opening nights at the Met, La Scala and Covent Garden. Here we find singers, actors, fashion and TV-people, opera singers. Some of them will never be invited to Bayreuth, but some has actually sung in Bayreuth.


3. The Siegmund and Sieglindes

This is quite a big lot, they have all been to Bayreuth at least once. They are the ones running Wagner societies around the world. Quite a few of them know each other and they LOVE each other and they LOVE to talk about Bayreuth and memories from their last visit in Wagner stadt. This is an important lot, as they also provide scholars for Wagner singers via their local Wagner Society. Some of them are actually very nice, but Classicalify now and then find them quite boring and conservative.


4. The Loges, Mimes, Fafner and Fasolts

Here you find the loners, the single ones, the gay ones, the crazy ones, the nerds, the disguised ones. A true Wagner fan, often travelling alone, sometimes with a nerd friend, has strong beliefs in the music. Her you also find all the gay couples, young and old, wolves and dinosaurs, but GAY. They see the Ring and operahouses as potential sex-places. It's not unusual to find some of these in the local gay pub or restaurant after the performance.


5. The Brünnhildes

This group consists mainly of old maids, or at least maids... Old, rich and strong ladies. Doing whatever they like, spending their money on travels, Wagner and good food and drink. If you are on crutches doesn't mather, just push your way forward in to the auditorium and all other will move away. Some of this old Brünnhildes also bring their toyboys by their side (well someone has to hold them during intervals, or...?).


6. The Gunther and Gutrunes

This is maybe the biggest part of any audience. As well as the Gibich siblings, this group is confused and often don't know what they want or how to act. Gutrune often brings along Gunther, who very much look puzzeled by all the other groups and he can't really decide if he's in the right place or not. But he tries to please his Gutrune, so he pays for the tickets and trips as long as she is happy. This group go to ANY opera, because it is supposed to be the correct thing to do. Of course they don't understand what is sung or what the fuzz is all about.


7. The Walküres

This is maybe the most interesting audience group. Here you find all the ones talking alot about the opera, the music, the singers and different performances. They are friends of the singers, some of them work at different opera houses and they all know each other. And they all are TRUE opera lovers. They travel quite often and spend much money on opera and recordings. Quite a noisy bunch, but also very fun. Some from groups 3-5 tend to belong (or WANT to belong) here as well, or at least they know someone in this group.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I am a #4. Going to the Seattle Ring by myself in 2013. I can't say I see it as a potential gay sex place. Still, quite excited!


----------



## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

me too...number 4 i mean!


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

I would think I'm a 4 as well. With a bit of 7. Although I really don't see how one can view an opera house as a potential sex-place, gay or not, I cannot fathom.


----------



## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I attended performances of the _Ring_ because my favorite tenor (Jerusalem) was singing in two or more of the operas. So Wotan only knows what that makes me! :lol:


----------



## belfastboy (Aug 3, 2012)

*Hand up* - No.4....and a bit of 5 sometimes!! LOL


----------



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm a 4, one of the crazy ones who would aspire to be a 7. I haven't yet seen a live opera, but it's early days yet. Don't get the gay sex link, but maybe that's a German thing? Or maybe there is some confusion over the expression 'goes to the Ring'?


----------



## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't think any of these describe me. I was most like Siegfried when I attended the Ring... An enthusiastic kid ready for adventure and to be taught the meaning of fear.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Yashin said:


> 7. The Walküres
> 
> This is maybe the most interesting audience group. Here you find all the ones talking alot about the opera, the music, the singers and different performances. They are friends of the singers, some of them work at different opera houses and they all know each other. And they all are TRUE opera lovers. They travel quite often and spend much money on opera and recordings. Quite a noisy bunch, but also very fun. Some from groups 3-5 tend to belong (or WANT to belong) here as well, or at least they know someone in this group.


I suppose that makes me Waltraute, then.

I'm comfortable in the presence of and enjoy the company of the Valkyries... but feel as though I know the circumstances when it makes sense for me to break away from the pack and strike out on my own!:lol:


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm a 4 too, but a married middle-aged straight female. But yes, I go to operas by myself, and always have. I REALLY want a nerd friend to go with.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

What kind of people just watch the DVDs? Because I'm one of those.


----------



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'm a 4 too, but a married middle-aged straight female. But yes, I go to operas by myself, and always have. I REALLY want a nerd friend to go with.


You could take me along and switch to a Brunnhilde!


----------



## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> What kind of people just watch the DVDs? Because I'm one of those.


These days...me too. No distractions, no coughing, no late-comers and no queue for the red wine between acts! Actually, i quite like watching it on DVD!


----------



## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

As expected, most people gathering here belong to group 4! 

This board is like the pub for the loners, the single ones, the gay ones, the crazy ones, the nerds, the disguised ones, haha!


----------



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

powerbooks said:


> As expected, most people gathering here belong to group 4!
> 
> This board is like the pub for the loners, the single ones, the gay ones, the crazy ones, the nerds, the disguised ones, haha!


None taken!


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I think this board is full of people who love opera but find it difficult to meet others who do as well. So I'm a crazy nerd loner in that sense, although not in the rest of my life.


----------



## peeknocker (Feb 14, 2012)

I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile and as unappealing as the man himself. Of course, having read several biographies that detail what a perfectly vile human being he was, I am necessarily biased. That said, I find no enjoyment in his music.


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

peeknocker said:


> I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile and as unappealing as the man himself. Of course, having read several biographies that detail what a perfectly vile human being he was, I am necessarily biased. That said, I find no enjoyment in his music.


Really? This, emotionally sterile?


----------



## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

peeknocker said:


> I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile and as unappealing as the man himself. Of course, having read several biographies that detail what a perfectly vile human being he was, I am necessarily biased. That said, I find no enjoyment in his music.


What an interesting post. I'm a recent convert to Wagner, and not all the way there yet, but I love Parsifal and Lohengrin, still working on Tristan und Isolde. I think he was a genius, whatever one may think of the man personally. It might be possible to make a case he was a better dramatist than a musician, if that makes any sense, and taking into account the fact that most "great" opera composers had others do their librettos for them.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

peeknocker said:


> I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile




*dies*


----------



## peeknocker (Feb 14, 2012)

Couchie said:


> *dies*


Ha ha.

Ok. Perhaps this wasn't the best place for me to confess my antipathy toward Wagner's music. However, I think it would be instructive to start a separate thread devoted to discussing to what extent one can separate an artist's work from the artist himself (or herself), confining the discussion (for the purposes of this board) to the life and works of individual composers. I am of the opinion that one cannot (that is, separate the artist's life from the artist's work) and for this reason I think it imperative to temper one's enthusiasm for such a problematic and notorious individual such as Wagner. Obviously most will disagree with this assertion and argue that an artist's work need not be tarnished if there be anything objectionable or controversial about that individual. A comparative example that comes to mind (and which I suppose will contradict my assertion) is the productions of the artist Benvenuto Cellini, whom as I have discovered in recently completing his lengthy autobiography, was a perfectly vile and bloodthirsty individual albeit capable of producing masterpieces of heavenly beauty. But as my appreciation of music is somewhat greater than it is for any other art, affecting me on an emotional level to an extent that other forms of creative expression do not, I am perhaps more sensible of such considerations as it pertains to musical composition. Such reflections on the life and legacy of this most ideological of composers interfere with my appreciation of his works.


----------



## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

peeknocker said:


> Ha ha.
> 
> Such reflections on the life and legacy of this most ideological of composers interfere with my appreciation of his works.


I can agree with you to a certain extent, but only in so far as his ideology is clearly present in his works. In Wagner's case, I have gained great pleasure from analysing and reading discussions of his operas' philosophical content, and luckily his antisemitism is hardly present here.



guythegreg said:


> It might be possible to make a case he was a better dramatist than a musician, if that makes any sense, and taking into account the fact that most "great" opera composers had others do their librettos for them.


That is a fascinating idea as well. Perhaps you are right, but I think to say so would be to miss the point a bit. Wagner managed somehow to reach a stage at which the drama and the music really are inseparable and he might have been a greater dramatist insofar as his music gives birth to the drama.

If we take 'drama' to be a synonym for his 'poems' or libretti; it is interesting to note that they are not very much discussed in literary circles. Whereas his music is still considered supreme by many now, and certainly towards the end of his life when many _composers_ (bruckner, mahler, schoenberg, debussy etc...) took great influence from his _music_. In this way his music managed to have groundbreaking influence on music in a way that his poems never had on poetry. (Think of his harmonic revolution particularly, but also some startlingly revolutionary use of instruments including the voice, and of course the famous structural innovation of the leitmotif)


----------



## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I would never go to the Ring. At my age and in my present physical condition, I would fall in 20 seconds.


----------



## Sator (Jan 23, 2011)

I believe that amongst the Nr 4s, if you are not gay, then it is compulsory to at least be Jewish. Of course, you can be both.


----------



## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

peeknocker said:


> ... I think it would be instructive to start a separate thread devoted to discussing to what extent one can separate an artist's work from the artist himself (or herself), confining the discussion (for the purposes of this board) to the life and works of individual composers. I am of the opinion that one cannot (that is, separate the artist's life from the artist's work) and for this reason I think it imperative to temper one's enthusiasm for such a problematic and notorious individual such as Wagner.


Well, but one might ask (as Wagner himself memorably did), who is good? (pause, for reflection ...) we are all vile. Some of us realize it, and some do not. When one lives, as I do, in a wealthy, free and content nation that has condoned torture, that has made war (and it says in all our history books that we teach to the little kiddies, that war is hell) on a nation that did nothing to us, when we allow our fellow citizens to make it illegal for homeless people to shelter themselves (as we have) ... who is good? There's not much point in condemning this or that composer for this or that moral failure, in a context like this.


----------



## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

guythegreg said:


> ... we are all vile ...


Ah ... present company excepted, of course.


----------



## Pamina (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm easily a number 7 (being a lyric soprano, probably Gerhilde). I think the Ring was one of the first operas I ever saw. the previous Met production when it was new and on PBS back in 1989 or 1990, something like that (I was a senior in high school). I remember staying up late four nights in a row to watch it on TV. I recall my dad coming down to living room around midnight at the end of Die Walkure and I was crying from watching James Morris put Hildegard Behrens to sleep on the rock. My dad was surprised that I was that into it. he quietly reminded me to go to bed soon because it was a school night. I don't think, even twenty years later, that my parents have ever understood my profound love of opera.... LOL

At least being here, I don't feel weird.


----------



## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

The easy misconception about Wagner: a man with so much to blame cannot actually produce great music. 
My question is: Who was the good one, the chaste? 
The more we can get into the inner life of any composer, performer, great soloist, etc., we'll find more to feel at least perplexed, sometimes digusted. However, the obnoxious and ill-tempered Beethoven composed some of the most sublime music ever written. The reckless and quite irresponsible in his personal life Mozart did the same. The sick, abusive (to others as well to himself) and, at the end of his life, almost insane Schumann produced as well incomparably beautiful music. 
Jaqueline Du Pre was one of the greatest cellist and, arguably, one of the very few female brilliant artist for her instrument. If we check her personality, personal life and the more recent information revealed...well, what do we have to think? Is she going to be a different class artist and a less significant soloist in the history of her instrument?
Wagner maybe is the only composer in the whole History of Classical Music that every _Gesamtwerk_ he composed lies from memorable to monumental, from great to the pinnacle, with the exception of the very youthful Operas, which still are quite good to indulge in. Of course, their huge proportions all the new inventions (musical and theatrical) make them almost impenetrable to the average, unprepared, indifferent listener. However, the more you learn, listen, study, get into this labyrinth of immense beauty, the more and the greatest rewards are in store for you.
Good luck, if you dare...to explore it.

Principe


----------



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Sator said:


> I believe that amongst the Nr 4s, if you are not gay, then it is compulsory to at least be Jewish. Of course, you can be both.


Lol, I am neither but, then again, I have not actually been to an opera yet, just stared at it from a distance.  I am more than a little eccentric, however.


----------



## macgeek2005 (Apr 1, 2006)

I'm technically a #4.. also going to the Seattle Ring in 2013 by myself.. but I'm only looking forward to seeing and hearing the operas live... none of the other stuff in that paragraph applies to me.... .



Sator said:


> I believe that amongst the Nr 4s, if you are not gay, then it is compulsory to at least be Jewish. Of course, you can be both.


Huh... I am Jewish if Jewish is an ethnicity.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

peeknocker said:


> I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile and as unappealing as the man himself. Of course, having read several biographies that detail what a perfectly vile human being he was, I am necessarily biased. That said, I find no enjoyment in his music.


I enjoy Wagner's works as music, but aside from Die Meistersinger and parts of Der Ring I do not find much value in actually watching and consuming them as drama. In at least one case, seeing the opera has ruined my enjoyment of the music, and I'm hoping that at some point I will be able to listen to Tannhäuser without thinking of the atrocious story.


----------



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm a #4 wishing I was #7. (Except I am straight ). But I am a single nerd, so I qualify.


----------



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

BTW I forgot to mention how amusing this thread was! (Remindingly, fondly, of Anna Russell's Ring sketch...sooo funny! :lol


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

macgeek2005 said:


> I'm technically a #4.. also going to the Seattle Ring in 2013 by myself.. but I'm only looking forward to seeing and hearing the operas live... none of the other stuff in that paragraph applies to me.... .
> 
> Huh... I am Jewish if Jewish is an ethnicity.


Which cycle are you going to?


----------



## macgeek2005 (Apr 1, 2006)

Couchie said:


> Which cycle are you going to?


I haven't decided yet. I'm not a donor so I haven't been able to buy tickets yet. Which cycle do you think will be best?

Edit: It looks like I only have to donate $100 now in order to be able to buy tickets... so I should actually buy my tickets now. I'll wait for your answer before doing so though. Typically which performance is best in a three cycle run like this?


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

macgeek2005 said:


> I haven't decided yet. I'm not a donor so I haven't been able to buy tickets yet. Which cycle do you think will be best?
> 
> Edit: It looks like I only have to donate $100 now in order to be able to buy tickets... so I should actually buy my tickets now. I'll wait for your answer before doing so though. Typically which performance is best in a three cycle run like this?


I don't know because this will be my first Ring as well. I'm going to the 1st one because I like the Sunday start and Friday finish. The opening night is exciting, but you may get a better performance in a later cycle when the singers are more comfortable. Or maybe a worse one, if the singers grow tired. I'm also going to the symposium on one of the days off.

Also, print off the seating chart and phone them to donate and get your tickets. I made the mistake of using the online form but it is manually processed, not automatic. It took several weeks and 3 phone calls to finally get everything in order. Phoning them they can process your order immediately. These are the prices:

Dress Circle - $1,300.00
Orchestra Center- $1,300.00
Orchestra - $1,100.00
Gallery Upper Prime - $1,100.00
First Tier Front - $1,100.00
Gallery Upper - $960.00
First Tier Box - $960.00
First Tier Back - $840.00
Orchestra Back - $700.00
Gallery Lower - $700.00
Second Tier Front - $600.00
Second Tier Box - $600.00
Second Tier Middle - $440.00
Second Tier Back - $300.00
Wheelchair Dress Circle (ctr) - $1,300.00
Wheelchair Dress Circle(sides) - $1,100.00
Wheelchair First Tier Back - $700.00
Wheelchair Orchestra (sides) - $440.00
Wheelchair Second Tier Back - $300.00


----------



## macgeek2005 (Apr 1, 2006)

Couchie said:


> I don't know because this will be my first Ring as well. I'm going to the 1st one because I like the Sunday start and Friday finish. The opening night is exciting, but you may get a better performance in a later cycle when the singers are more comfortable. Or maybe a worse one, if the singers grow tired. I'm also going to the symposium on one of the days off.
> 
> Also, print off the seating chart and phone them to donate and get your tickets. I made the mistake of using the online form but it is manually processed, not automatic. It took several weeks and 3 phone calls to finally get everything in order. Phoning them they can process your order immediately. These are the prices:
> 
> ...


I finally bought my tickets today! For a while there I was thinking I'd end up not going, because I had bought DCP tickets for La Bohème, and many hundreds of dollars of Seattle Symphony tickets, but then I discovered those $440 "Wheelchair Companion" front row seats, and just went for it and purchased two tickets for the first cycle.

I spoke with a lady on the phone today who said that those seats are meant to be for people accompanying someone in a wheelchair, but that there's nothing to stop me from buying them. I've noticed in several places throughout the hall for the various cycles, there are places where there is only one wheelchair seat available, and none of the companion seats around it are available anymore, which means other people have done this. Also, the only nearby wheelchair seat to the seats that I bought still has one available companion seat next to it for $440 as well.

I'm excited!!!


----------



## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm not sure if people that choose #4 is because whether they are gay or the other reason.

I'm not sure which i could fit in. I don't go to opera as much as i would love to. I love opera but my friends don't (except one, he's tenor). I don't know anyone personally from the opera world (except one friend, the tenor). I do not belong to a Wagnerian Society. I choose CD over DVD's, between DVD's or music scores, i prefer music scores. Also i prefer to read music analysis/opinions over having 2,000,000 albums and than making a good choice (i can't afford to spend that amount of money yet). I do not see myself as conservative. I just don't like when nowadays some masterpieces are completely disrespected. And i'm not rich or have any political influence.


----------



## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

peeknocker said:


> I actually can't stand Wagner. I find his music to be emotionally sterile and as unappealing as the man himself. Of course, having read several biographies that detail what a perfectly vile human being he was, I am necessarily biased. That said, I find no enjoyment in his music.


So...why are you even posting in this thread?


----------



## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Yashin said:


> 4. The Loges, Mimes, Fafner and Fasolts
> 
> Here you find the loners, the single ones, the gay ones, the crazy ones, the nerds, the disguised ones. A true Wagner fan, often travelling alone, sometimes with a nerd friend, has strong beliefs in the music. Her you also find all the gay couples, young and old, wolves and dinosaurs, *but GAY*. They see the Ring and operahouses as potential sex-places. It's not unusual to find some of these in the local gay pub or restaurant after the performance.





dionisio said:


> I'm not sure if people that choose #4 is because whether they are gay *or the other reason*.


Well, even if it is _the other reason_, according to the original blog, they are actually GAY! :lol:


----------

