# Why do so many young persons hate classical music



## eohutchinson (May 10, 2015)

Is it true young people hate classical music???
There's a discussion on this in A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Hate is a strong word. I think that most young people don't appreciate or have any use for classical music. They want their own music of today.


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## Beethoven123 (Nov 25, 2021)

Bulldog said:


> Hate is a strong word. I think that most young people don't appreciate or have any use for classical music. They want their own music of today.


This is actually exactly why I voted no; as the people in my school are totally unaware of classical music. I don’t think they hate it, they just don’t care for it or have no experience of it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

And it's not just young people. Last Thanksgiving we had a full house and I put on some favorite chamber works. Up first, the Korngold Much Ado About Nothing suite for violin and piano. It wasn't going for five minutes when a brother in law comes into the room and yells "Why are we listening to this ***t? Put something on people like!" His wife apologized. But a young nephew offered to put some rap on. So my music was rejected by a man who is 70 and a kid who was 20. Neither will be invited again.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Bit harsh to blame the kid for that. 

Anyway this seems like a duplication of an already-existing topic.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Korngold would be a tough sell, but I hope that your next Thanksgiving will be more satisfying.


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

Most classical music needs some sort of learning to appreciate it. If you propose it to people subjected to pop only, they won't like it. I don't believe it's a matter of age.

Here in Germany, where so many people play music, many young persons like classical music.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> Hate is a strong word. I think that most young people don't appreciate or have any use for classical music. They want their own music of today.


Yes. And that has always been true of every generation of young people. Each generation wants its own cultural heroes. The answer as to how to change that phenomenon is easy: It cannot be changed. If we go to the trouble of educating our children in our artistic traditions, they will survive. But they will never lead the hit parade, and never have.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

The vast majority of young people are just ignorant about and indifferent to classical music. Most don't care enough to hate it. It's just not part of their culture.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I think a lot of young people do not so much hate it, but are unware of it.

But, so much of modern popular music is so tied up with other aspects that really have nothing to do with the music. Hair style, attire, attitude, stage presence, tattoos,... hell, even which celebrity some rapper, or pop performer is dating is of major importance.

There is much 'group membership' signaling with the above, try to get someone to listen to music just for the sake of the music, without all of that superfluous (to the music) stuff, and just pay attention the musicians, seems like a tough task. Especially "uncool" looking musicians, wearing suits or semi-formal dresses, who aren't strutting around the stage, garbing their crotch* or twerking*.

*not that I care, I am far from a prude.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Simon Moon said:


> But, so much of modern popular music is so tied up with other aspects that really have nothing to do with the music. Hair style, attire, attitude, stage presence, tattoos,... hell, even which celebrity some rapper, or pop performer is dating is of major importance.
> 
> There is much 'group membership' signaling with the above, try to get someone to listen to music just for the sake of the music, without all of that superfluous (to the music) stuff, and just pay attention the musicians, seems like a tough task.


Everything you've mentioned (including the actual music) falls under the larger heading of "culture" (fashion is part of culture), and young people especially attempt to define themselves in part by what cultures they belong to. Art that embodies the cultures they're attracted to thus become more, well, attractive. Classical music has its own culture that many are attracted to, particularly its common association with class and elitism. Frankly, I think these cultural associations have been (or became) among the least attractive aspects of classical music and what keeps many away. I appreciate the work that youngsters like TwoSetViolin have done to break down these associations and introduce young people to classical music in a way that's more relatable and approachable. 

Are some people able to just listen to and appreciate music (all music) for just the music? Sure, but I question how common they are. Most people are not conscious of these, for lack of a better term, ulterior motives for being attracted to certain kinds of music and the culture(s) they represent.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I realize that this in anecdotal.
I am seventy-five and sixty years ago most of my teenage contemporaries hated classical music.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Young people don't hate classical music itself, but the people listen to them.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

eohutchinson said:


> Is it true young people hate classical music???


It is impossible for young people to hate Classical music. You can't hate something you ignore. But the great thing is, if they love any kind of music, eventually they will discover Classical music. And for some of them, it will become a fixture of their lives.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I wouldn't call it "hate" rather they probably lack any appreciation for it. I grew up in a classical music family ... my parents played for many years in the Scandinavian Symphony in Detroit, and later the Long Beach Philharmonic when we moved to California. 

We woke up to hearing classical music ... we would spend some evenings together playing music (mom on violin, sister on viola, me on piano, and dad on the double Bb concert tuba). 

I happen to like other genre's of music too ... mostly easy listening and hits from the 60's and those from the big band era, too. 

I truly believe that this website was created, in part, to introduce people to classical music, and that is something that we do quite well. One can simply be a lurker and garner lots of good information, and more often then not, that "lurker" becomes a contributing member. 

It's those who post asking about a piece they have heard at some time (asking for title, composer, etc), so we are having some success.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

I think that young people are more open to classical music than ever. With Youtube they are free to explore many genres because the music they listen to is no longer controlled by just a few record companies, radio, and TV stations that tell them what kind of music they should like. Because teens and young adults listen to music through ear bugs with their own personal playlists, listening is no longer a communal experience so there's very little peer pressure or generation gap to stop them from listening to whatever strikes them.

That being said, maybe the real problem is not so much that young people hate classical music but, rather, that young people (and older people?) aren't supporting the classical music _industry_. Young people don't buy CDs, and I suspect that those who are buying LPs are a small market, and that fad probably won't last. The lack of music being a communal experience isn't conducive to teens and young adults wanting to be financially and geographically inconvenienced by going to a concert; for what? This is a generation that was already socially distancing even _before_ COVID. Almost everything they do is online. They even communicate with one another long distance through social media. Even when they go out to eat with peers they don't talk to each other because they're all on their phones texting other people or playing games or watching videos. Even some of my adult friends have developed these annoying habits. But because young people have never had to collect records or CDs to have unlimited access to the music they like, they see no need to purchase it.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> It is impossible for young people to hate Classical music. You can't hate something you ignore. But the great thing is, if they love any kind of music, eventually they will discover Classical music. And for some of them, it will become a fixture of their lives.


I would say this hits the nail on the head. I'll add that exposure has a lot to do with it in addition to one's own desire to seek this music out.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

eohutchinson said:


> Is it true young people hate classical music???
> There's a discussion on this in A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music


Where? I can't find this.

Anyway, you might as well ask "Is it true old people are bald/grey/cantankerous/post-menopausal...???"


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

In Germany, there was a time, when shopping managers regarded young people hanging around in the entrance area as a problem. The solution was to install speakers and play classical music. The young people disappeared.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

This is the reason why the first 10 minutes of every music lesson in my primary school classes is 'musical appreciation'. My experience is not that children 'hate' classical music. Far from it. They just haven't heard it. The younger children (under 8s), especially, are quite receptive to it. I always stress that you don't need to like the music we listen to weekly as a starter but can talk about what aspects of it we like / dislike and have the musical vocabulary to explain what it is that turns us off or on about it. I opened last week's P3 lesson by playing a few minutes of Led Zeppelin's Kashmir. Sparked a lot of conversation. Holst's Mars caused a similar stir (lots of Star Wars comparisons) and many liked it.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

arpeggio said:


> I realize that this in anecdotal.
> I am seventy-five and sixty years ago most of my teenage contemporaries hated classical music.


Ditto


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

One difference in the 1950s and 60s was that "Roll over Beethoven" could humourously express a "social revolution". Rejecting or strongly disliking Classical Music was a statement against the bourgeois establishment of one's parents. Nowadays classical music doesn't matter enough that any profile could be established by "hating" it.


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## Rowy (Jun 13, 2017)

It depends. In my country, the Netherlands, most well-educated people appreciate classical music and respect the musicians who play it. Some like classical music as well as popular music. I think it is the same in many European countries.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

arpeggio said:


> I realize that this in anecdotal.
> I am seventy-five and sixty years ago most of my teenage contemporaries hated classical music.


I realise that this is also anecdotal.
I am 63 and 48 years ago, I had no idea what most of my teenage contemporaries thought about classical music. I guess I assumed they thought, like me, that while Rock was king, CM had its place...at least in TV themes, film music, Bugs Bunny cartoons...not the rubbish bin. "Hate" didn't figure.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

There is a big elephant in the room that explains why young people are conditioned to hate CM. However, I cannot talk about it under the standing threat that it would be a political speech and Art Rock would banish me forever. Lacking the treatment of this unmentionable component, the discussion is moot.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I don't think it's a political issue or that young people today hate classical music. Those I know (quite a number in their 20s) tend to respect CM - they know there is something there - but also to fear it. Becoming knowledgeable in the field is a huge mountain, one that they are not ready for. One aspect of CM that the young people I know do tend to dislike is when it sounds similar to something they consider cliched.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

Simon Moon said:


> I think a lot of young people do not so much hate it, but are unware of it.
> 
> But, so much of modern popular music is so tied up with other aspects that really have nothing to do with the music. Hair style, attire, attitude, stage presence, tattoos,... hell, even which celebrity some rapper, or pop performer is dating is of major importance.
> 
> ...


What you write is not exactly true.

First of all, you have to understand what is the goal of a genre of music and then you can understand what are the artistic and technical qualities required for that genre.

For example, rap music is about writing complex lyrics and having a good flow.
Eminem, who is considered one of the best rappers of the world, has a very strong skills in both.
The engineering that there is in his lyrics is impressive: only few people in the world have a such talent.






Pop music is about writing nice tunes and about having a good voice.
Elton John is an example of a pop artist who has both skills.






If you judge artists of other genres of music using the criteria used in classical music you will come to the conclusion that everything outside classical music is ****.

However it's true that in every genre of music there are some artists who are famous although they have weak technical skills in what they are expected to be good.
So, it's true that in commercial music the marketing sometimes plays a great role. I wonder why in pop music, for example, there are singers who are not really able to sing and why in rap music there are rappers without strong skills in what is required in rap music. I would expect that every famous rapper has the same skills of Eminem, but this is not true.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

eohutchinson said:


> Is it true young people hate classical music???
> There's a discussion on this in A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music


The mainstream radios don't play classical music, so people have a culture about popular music but not about classical music. You can't like or hate something you don't really know.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

I don't even think young people listen to the radio anymore.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

Enthalpy said:


> Most classical music needs some sort of learning to appreciate it.


Why? You don't need to know how the engine of the car works in order to understand if a car is good or not. You have to be able to drive.

In music what is required to evaluate what you hear is to have a musical ear. If you have a musical ear, you understand when a performer plays the wrong key even if you don't understand the engineering inside music.
What I want to say is that the user of music must be able to listen like the user of a car must be able to drive. If you have to understand the engineering inside music to appreciate it then the sense of music is lost, because music is intended to be listened and not to be read.

If I listen to the piece A and to the piece B and I say that I prefer the piece A, you can not tell me that the piece B is better but that I don't understand it because I'm not able to read the score. If you say that in order to appreciate your music I have to understand the score than it means that as a composer you are a failure.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

As child I was used to music that was sung. Almost all the music a child hears is vocal music. Even the piano pieces had a melody and an accompaniment.

I remember how I perceived classical music in my childhood: _The strings just go on and on but nobody sings! Why? I cannot follow the strings! Slow down you strings!_


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Philidor said:


> In Germany, there was a time, when shopping managers regarded young people hanging around in the entrance area as a problem. The solution was to install speakers and play classical music. The young people disappeared.


Yes, you have to be keenly aware of what's cool and what's uncool at that crucial, formative age. It's an imperative, as important as what you wear and your varying level of popularity in peer groups. We know why this goes on universally.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> And it's not just young people. Last Thanksgiving we had a full house and I put on some favorite chamber works. Up first, the Korngold Much Ado About Nothing suite for violin and piano. It wasn't going for five minutes when a brother in law comes into the room and yells "Why are we listening to this ***t? Put something on people like!" His wife apologized. But a young nephew offered to put some rap on. So my music was rejected by a man who is 70 and a kid who was 20. Neither will be invited again.


They were in your house and rejected your music like that?


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

That's why nobody likes in-laws.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Most young people don't even like guitar solos in their rock music.



mbhaub said:


> And it's not just young people. Last Thanksgiving we had a full house and I put on some favorite chamber works. Up first, the Korngold Much Ado About Nothing suite for violin and piano. It wasn't going for five minutes when a brother in law comes into the room and yells "Why are we listening to this ***t? Put something on people like!" His wife apologized. But a young nephew offered to put some rap on. So my music was rejected by a man who is 70 and a kid who was 20. Neither will be invited again.


Once at work I played Don Gillis' Symphony No. 5 1/2. It's a fun, whimsical piece, but everyone found it too intense



fbjim said:


> I don't even think young people listen to the radio anymore.


Most people don't. Many music stations have been replaced by FM talk radio. Just what we need, stereo talk.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

The last time I played classical as mood/background music for a social gathering it was Music for 18 Musicians, which which a hit.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

As someone who has performed more concerts for young people than I can count: whenever they're fairly exposed to classical music, whether old or modern, familiar or unfamiliar, conventional or avant garde, they go bonkers for it. This is as true for chamber music as for orchestra. 

Zero exceptions.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

OK, I don't want to be _that guy_, but couldn't this have been asked in the almost 100% identical thread started by the same user?

FWIW, my kids don't hate classical music. They love it, because they have been exposed to it both at home and in the world (we're going to the symphony this Saturday, in fact). 

I have also never met a kid who "hated" classical music. Complete indifference is a far more accurate descriptor.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

It really is exposure, marketing, and peer pressure as to what kind of music you like. You, me, and all of us.

I chose to actively love CM as a 7 year old when I saw a presentation of Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2. on television. That was to the disapproval of my siblings, but from an admonishment to them by our parents. I chose to pursue CM on my own at an early age. It was harder then. All we had was AM radio,antenna TV, and the monaural Hi-Fi my dad was proud of. The pickings were slim.

Today's children have a cell phone plugged into their heads, and a video game controller in their hands. I am of the view that Americans are not as focused on CM as Europeans are. I think that is called "heritage."


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> And it's not just young people. Last Thanksgiving we had a full house and I put on some favorite chamber works. Up first, the Korngold Much Ado About Nothing suite for violin and piano. It wasn't going for five minutes when a brother in law comes into the room and yells "Why are we listening to this ***t? Put something on people like!" His wife apologized. But a young nephew offered to put some rap on. So my music was rejected by a man who is 70 and a kid who was 20. Neither will be invited again.


Reminds me of a time I was once cleaning up a lab at Penn State. It was after the end of the semester, so most of the kids were gone. I was listening to Rawsthorne's first piano concerto while working. Our network admin came in (young guy), and said "What the hell is this? Do you want me to turn it off?" I said no, I was listening to it, and he just seemed confused.


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm afraid that, at least in the US, popular music is a greater money-maker. So pop is pushed, while classical music is relegated to a few (very few) public radio stations, and even they have gone mostly talk. So many young people never have the opportunity to hear it until too late when their musical tastes have already reified.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

progmatist said:


> Once at work I played Don Gillis' Symphony No. 5 1/2. It's a fun, whimsical piece, but everyone found it too intense
> 
> Most people don't. Many music stations have been replaced by FM talk radio. Just what we need, stereo talk.


Gillis? Not intense, I feel Gershwin in it's roots.  Thanks for sharing!

*FM talk radio*? You can include *Podcasts* under the same category


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

Bruce said:


> I'm afraid that, at least in the US, popular music is a greater money-maker. So pop is pushed, while classical music is relegated to a few (very few) public radio stations, and even they have gone mostly talk. So many young people never have the opportunity to hear it until too late when their musical tastes have already reified.


The machine is not going to get rich promoting public domain CM music and classic art,


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

fbjim said:


> That's why nobody likes in-laws.


It's likely that he was praised by his peer group in the past for this curt attitude about something like this. Or he took that type of acceptance as praise. People act differently in groups (an understatement!). Of course, people go to parties for social excitement and release.

"...to forget about life for a while." Billy Joel (I hope that's an accurate quote)


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

Waehnen said:


> As child I was used to music that was sung. Almost all the music a child hears is vocal music. Even the piano pieces had a melody and an accompaniment.
> 
> I remember how I perceived classical music in my childhood: _The strings just go on and on but nobody sings! Why? I cannot follow the strings! Slow down you strings!_


I choose to be the opposite most of the time. But I do know all of The Beatles lyrics...


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> *OK, I don't want to be that guy, but couldn't this have been asked in the almost 100% identical thread started by the same user?*


I'll be _that guy..._

I'll have to play around with the chronology somewhat but I'll try to put these threads in perspective...

The thread starter is EOHutchinson - Earl Ofari Hutchinson - He's been a member since May 10, 2015 - He's created 7 posts in 7 years - 6 of those posts are threads that he started to publicize his latest book.

On April 30th of this year he created a thread entitled - "How to Make Classical Music Appealing to Young People" to promote his book - "A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music".
That thread is 11 pages long and has 202 (and counting) posts.

A word on the book itself - It's published by "Middle Passage Press" which is a vanity press imprint established by the author himself - Earl Ofari Hutchinson - It's not a release issued by an established publishing company.
"Middle Passage Books" has only one author on its roster - Earl Ofari Hutchinson.

On May 10th of this year he created a thread entitled - "Why do so many young persons hate classical music" to once again promote his book "A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music"
This thread is three pages long and has 56 (and counting) posts.

On May 10, 2015 - Seven years ago, EOHutchinson created a thread entitled - "Beethoven and Me: A Beginner's Guide" to promote his book "Beethoven and Me: A Beginner's Guide"

On October 9, 2016 - almost six years ago, EOHutchinson created a thread entitled ' Name your favorite African-American Composers" to promote his book "Our Music Too The Black Experience in Classical Music"

On October 11, 2016, two days later, EOHutchinson created a thread entitled "World's First Black Composers and Artists Classical Music Station Launched" - It's not as cut and dried as the other threads but I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that one of the subjects discussed on this long-deceased classical music station was Earl's book "Our Music Too The Black Experience in Classical Music"

Again, that's 7 threads in 7 years and 6 (and possibly the 7th) were created to publicize books that he's written which have been published by the vanity press imprint that he owns.

In about two weeks, Earl is probably going to show up again and create a third thread entitled - "Why do so few young people love classical music" - and it will most likely be as vigorously debated here by the same people who took part in the first two and most likely with the exact same replies written by the exact same people.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Shaughnessy said:


> I'll be _that guy..._
> 
> I'll have to play around with the chronology somewhat but I'll try to put these threads in perspective...
> 
> ...


As I said in the other thread, this book is a scam. Boring title-- "A Young Person's Guide to X." Marketing to people hoping this book would magically save the CM industry, not to children. And finally, why would he write a book ostensibly about getting kids into CM and then ask if children *hate *classical music? Imagine what message that sends to the people he's marketing to (TC posters and lurkers). To me, it signifies "I have no clue about what children think of classical music. I wrote the book hoping to make money."


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Not to narc, but fairly certain personal advertising is prohibited.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I'll be _that guy..._
> 
> I'll have to play around with the chronology somewhat but I'll try to put these threads in perspective...
> 
> ...


That is all pretty unfortunate. 

I have heard Earl Ofari Hutchinson speak on the radio a couple of years back, and he seemed like a pretty smart guy, with some interesting ideas.

He has just slipped quite a few steps lower in my estimation.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Simon Moon said:


> That is all pretty unfortunate.
> 
> I have heard Earl Ofari Hutchinson speak on the radio a couple of years back, and he seemed like a pretty smart guy, with some interesting ideas.
> 
> He has just slipped quite a few steps lower in my estimation.


He's not a bad guy - Based on the subjects that he's written about in his books, his heart and mind are in the right place - And to put everything in perspective - He's creating threads on the forum as a way to sell his books - He's a free-lance writer trying to make a living - He would have been better off by being upfront about the intent of the threads. All he needed to do was write - "I just wrote a book, I would be interested in sharing some ideas with you" and he could have lead a guided discussion on these topics.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Simon Moon said:


> That is all pretty unfortunate.
> 
> I have heard Earl Ofari Hutchinson speak on the radio a couple of years back, and he seemed like a pretty smart guy, with some interesting ideas.
> 
> He has just slipped quite a few steps lower in my estimation.


He can be a smart guy with some interesting ideas, _and_ a disingenious marketer. The options are not mutually exclusive. He might have even written decent guides on CM. I'll never know, because I am not even getting his books on Kindle Unlimited, much less purchasing them.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Shaughnessy said:


> He's not a bad guy, I really don't want you to think of him that way - Based on the subjects that he's written about in his books, his heart and mind are in the right place - I tried my best to be as fair to him as I could be - The lure of the honors - the respect - to be found in academia can overwhelm even the most noble and heroic of souls - He may honestly feel that he's done the work to merit the honor - that he's had to overcome adversities that others haven't and that he found a path which would lead him to his desired destination and instead found himself lost and without a way to find his way back.
> 
> Some people embellish their academic credentials - Some their military combat experiences - Some the number of times that it took to solve today's Wordle.
> The desire for self-esteem and to be esteemed by others - to be respected - can lead one to make regrettable decisions. I would not have done what he did but I also did not lead the life that he did.
> ...


In the other thread, I first tried to politely explain that the marketing for Hutchinson's book is ridiculous. I didn't want to trash the author, and hesitated at even posting the constructive criticism*. When Hutchinson didn't participate in the thread discussion, I lost my generosity. Then I looked him up on Amazon, and found I would probably like his ideas...but I wasn't going to reward what Hutchinson did here by buying one of his other books.

*The book might well have content kids already interested in CM would like, if the cover and description are redone. But now part of me wonders if it's largely a copy-paste of _Beethoven & Me_ (his general guide to CM) because of his behavior here (and apparent lack of knowledge on what kids like/think).


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

If we had György Kurtág b!t¢h slapping Lang Lang at a major awards show, I bet CM would be more popular.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

People around me obviously do not like people who love classical music. However, I am also glad to see that people at least respect others music choices. In my current high school nobody really express their disrespect towards me though they know I love classical music. They surely won’t welcome me if I try to straightforwardly introduce them classical music, but as long as I don’t bother them, they are fine with me. It’s no longer the 1960s and 70s when people deliberately went against and denied traditions. People today are getting more moderate and inclusive than ever, especially in my high school, so I do not worry about being disliked at all. However, I do know that many people outside of my school hate people who listen to classical music. But many classical music lovers dislike those who listen to modern music, then why isn’t the other way around problematic? 

Also, since most of you grew up in the 60s and 70s in the west, you tend to believe that people around you age generally hate CM. However, you should also learn about the ideas of people today, as I mentioned above, and also people around your age from other places. I grew up in an Asian family and my grandparents (peers with most of you) didn’t even know what western classical music was, but they still respect it a lot because there wasn’t that rebellion culture. My parents (40-50 yo) and grandparents (70-80 yo) don’t hate classical music at all, neither do their peers. So, as the world gets more inclusive, CM hatred shouldn’t be a problem.


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

MatthewWeflen said:


> OK, I don't want to be _that guy_, but couldn't this have been asked in the almost 100% identical thread started by the same user?
> 
> FWIW, my kids don't hate classical music. They love it, because they have been exposed to it both at home and in the world (we're going to the symphony this Saturday, in fact).
> 
> I have also never met a kid who "hated" classical music. Complete indifference is a far more accurate descriptor.


Oh really!! Are you going to the Mozart Beethoven Tchaikovsky concert? I am also going to that concert, so I hope to see you there! I love it so much that the programs of the concert are my favorite classical pieces—I feel like that concert is made for me and Ive been watching it since last October. The only sad thing is I that I have my first high school prom on the same night, so I will have to figure out which one should I go (that actually depends on whether I can get a prom date ).


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

KevinW said:


> Oh really!! Are you going to the Mozart Beethoven Tchaikovsky concert? I am also going to that concert, so I hope to see you there! I love it so much that the programs of the concert are my favorite classical pieces—I feel like that concert is made for me and Ive been watching it since last October. The only sad thing is I that I have my first high school prom on the same night, so I will have to figure out which one should I go (that actually depends on whether I can get a prom date ).


Which pieces are they playing?


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## julide (Jul 24, 2020)

If everyone could have a system with good instrumental seperation,good dynamics and tonality everyone would listen to stravinsky instead of whatever they listen to


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

julide said:


> If everyone could have a system with good instrumental seperation,good dynamics and tonality everyone would listen to stravinsky instead of whatever they listen to


Absolutely not. Technology is definitely not the problem here. I speak from personal experience, having listened only to pop and rap for a few years before turning to classical and having friends that still listen to pop and rap right now


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

KevinW said:


> Oh really!! Are you going to the Mozart Beethoven Tchaikovsky concert? I am also going to that concert, so I hope to see you there! I love it so much that the programs of the concert are my favorite classical pieces—I feel like that concert is made for me and Ive been watching it since last October. The only sad thing is I that I have my first high school prom on the same night, so I will have to figure out which one should I go (that actually depends on whether I can get a prom date ).


We're doing the family concert at 12:45, "Philharmonia Fantastique." My last full concert was Bruckner 2, which was phenomenal.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

MatthewWeflen said:


> We're doing the family concert at 12:45, "Philharmonia Fantastique." My last full concert was Bruckner 2, which was phenomenal.


That looks like fun... wish I could be there!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Its not possible to know the real answer to the question, but I think overall they don't hate it. I think that digital technology in particular has led to music being something like you pick off the shelf in a supermarket. I wouldn't say that the younger generation today is totally apathetic, but if an issue stirs them up, it's unlikely to be related to music. Think of the attention Greta Thunberg got, especially from young people. Its not related to what she listens to or wears, its about ideas.

When I was younger, there was still an element of antipathy towards classical out there. It wasn't exactly hated, but it was wise to keep a low profile about it, especially because of its association (some of it justified) with snobs. There was still a fair deal of tribalism related to what music you followed. As I've gotten older, my impression is that its more or less vanished. Apart from technology, part of the reason is probably the breaking down of class identity over time. There's also less of a generation gap between people and their children now than in the past.


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## Sebbo (8 mo ago)

I think most people just don't care about any music that much.


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## KennrthP (Jan 9, 2022)

eohutchinson said:


> Is it true young people hate classical music???
> There's a discussion on this in A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music


Most young people don’t HATE classical music - I think it’s more that it just doesn’t exist for them, it’s not on their radar! It annoys me greatly when music teachers take the attitude that ‘pupils don’t like classical’ without even trying to present it to them. Maybe the young are more open minded than many suppose?


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

KennrthP said:


> It annoys me greatly when music teachers take the attitude that ‘pupils don’t like classical’ without even trying to present it to them.


The current teachers probably lack the knowledge and the experience regarding the teaching of CM. I wonder if they are American? Probably... I did have a few grade school teachers who made an attempt, but were met with general student resistance. Ain't cable TV & the Internet a great place?


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

Sebbo said:


> I think most people just don't care about any music that much.


Can you say i-Tunes? Spotify? YouTube? My son tells me that his consorts don't even listen to a full album of anything, regardless of genre.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

Sid James said:


> Think of the attention Greta Thunberg got, especially from young people. Its not related to what she listens to or wears, its about ideas.


I think that this is as much generational and following their peers as much as it is about ideas, good or bad.


> There's also less of a generation gap between people and their children now than in the past.


That could be so in your experience, but it isn't in mine. There are always gaps, and there always will be.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

I was at Andris Nelson & the Gewandhaus’ recent two night performance of Strauss‘ tone poems at the Barbican, whereupon I saw a young girl!

In over twenty years of attending classical music concerts in London, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a child under the age of 12. In Europe this is much more common. The English are completely uncivilised…


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Chibi Ubu said:


> I think that this is as much generational and following their peers as much as it is about ideas, good or bad.


That's a good point, because much of childhood is spent working out where we fit into things (socialisation) and developing our own personality.



> That could be so in your experience, but it isn't in mine. There are always gaps, and there always will be.


I understand. I was thinking of how recent the concept of teenager or even youth is. If we go back about one hundred years, most children didn't make it to high school. Many entered the workforce in their early teens to support their family.

Its really post-1945 that the generation gap associated with teenage rebellion emerges. Many men had returned from the war and most women had to prioritise raising a family over career opportunities. Their children (the boomers) had more opportunities, and they where eager to challenge social norms. Today, with high unemployment and rising house prices, many young people are living at home longer, even until their thirties. Of course, this change hasn't happened in an instant, but its a different world (even compared to more recent generations than postwar).


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

I found this one on YouTube, which is a 2010 visual presentation of Beethoven's *Große Fuge, opus 133. *This may be a better way of presenting classical music to a video game generation, at least I think it is!




And a tip of the hat to the current 1800s composition poll here at TC that I just joined.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Chibi Ubu said:


> I found this one on YouTube, which is a 2010 visual presentation of Beethoven's *Große Fuge, opus 133. *This may be a better way of presenting classical music to a video game generation, at least I think it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I loved the Grosse Fuge immediately because I heard it as an emotional journey from violent conflict to peaceful cooperation. Not as a contrapuntal exercise.

That approach would make the Grosse Fuge in particular more popular, regardless of the format it's presented in.

I wonder if I would have loved it immediately when I was younger and hadn't listened to a lot of CM yet. I think I would have been hooked, but I don't know.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

As a twentysomething, most young people don't hate classical music. For most, I think it's perhaps alien and not very approachable, but something they will treat with respect. And there's a significant minority who take a casual interest: I've had good success popularising pieces by Dvorak, Schubert, Mahler etc. with plenty of not very musical people my age. Hell, a friend of mine liked a Telemann cantata I put on once!

I did a listening circle with friends a couple years back, and when it came to my turn the most common reaction to the Death and the Maiden quartet and Mendelssohn's Scottish Symphony was something like "I enjoyed it but it's so different to what I usually listen to that I don't really know how to process it". Like I said, I think the predominant attitude is a psychologically uncomfortable combination of alienation and reverence rather than any dislike.

This is just my anecdotal experience.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Beethoven123 said:


> This is actually exactly why I voted no; as the people in my school are totally unaware of classical music. I don’t think they hate it, they just don’t care for it or have no experience of it.


How can they have no experience of it when it appears in ads, movies, and TV every so often? Even that little bit of exposure was enough to reel me in when I was their age.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Open Book said:


> How can they have no experience of it when it appears in ads, movies, and TV every so often? Even that little bit of exposure was enough to reel me in when I was their age.


Most people who are ignorant of Classical music would not recognize it in an ad, or movie trailer, since what they would perceive was just an orchestra playing. It would just be some background music accompanying a more interesting sensory experience.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

ORigel said:


> Not as a contrapuntal exercise.


Contrapuntal exercise? I had'da google it. I learn something new every time I log onto TC. 
*edit:* I ought'a change my name to *Grasshopper* in this forum, but that can only happen once a year. Yep, I already checked! Do-overs are hard to come by...
🌞


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Looking around at the army of brilliant young musicians (maybe a too-crowded field) it would appear more young people love classical music than ever before.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Open Book said:


> How can they have no experience of it when it appears in ads, movies, and TV every so often? Even that little bit of exposure was enough to reel me in when I was their age.


Well, by that logic production/library music would be the most popular genre on earth, and not the type of thing that's mainly enthused about by true eccentrics.


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## Bryangth (8 mo ago)

Unfortunately, young people may not be properly aware of the power and the beauty of classical, theatre, and music other than pop. Of course, pop pays a lot, whereas classical cannot. Even some orchestras struggle to perform except for patrons. Whereas pop advertises food, bevvies, clothing, etc.

One group that goes against this force is TwoSet Violin. I am only a fan of Brett and Eddy (the two violinists), but their idea, to make classical music accessible to younger people like them. It CAN be done. But we have to mourn the tendency for uneducated leaders to bash classical music and thereby influence the kids.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

fbjim said:


> Well, by that logic production/library music would be the most popular genre on earth, and not the type of thing that's mainly enthused about by true eccentrics.


Well, "true eccentrics" are probably the only ones still listening to the Beatles, Stones and Motown too.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

dissident said:


> Well, "true eccentrics" are probably the only ones still listening to the Beatles, Stones and Motown too.


Production music, in my experience, is the type of thing a certain type of electronic music listener gets into when they've exhausted the history of electronic music. 

It's actually an interesting scene and I've known a few people who get into that sort of thing, but pouring through records of library music intended for use by commercials is not everyone's idea of a good time.


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Bryangth said:


> Unfortunately, young people may not be properly aware of the power and the beauty of classical, theatre, and music other than pop. Of course, pop pays a lot, whereas classical cannot. Even some orchestras struggle to perform except for patrons. Whereas pop advertises food, bevvies, clothing, etc.
> 
> One group that goes against this force is TwoSet Violin. I am only a fan of Brett and Eddy (the two violinists), but their idea, to make classical music accessible to younger people like them. It CAN be done. But we have to mourn the tendency for uneducated leaders to bash classical music and thereby influence the kids.


Well I think in a lot of ways pop is running out of steam too. Not a scientific observation, but a common refrain from younger YT viewers is "wow, they had such great music back then ..."


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Open Book said:


> How can they have no experience of it when it appears in ads, movies, and TV every so often? Even that little bit of exposure was enough to reel me in when I was their age.


But pop culture uses brief sound clips of pieces. It's another thing to listen to even two minutes of a CM piece.


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## Jake Purches Base2 Music (8 mo ago)

Enthalpy said:


> Most classical music needs some sort of learning to appreciate it. If you propose it to people subjected to pop only, they won't like it. I don't believe it's a matter of age.
> 
> Here in Germany, where so many people play music, many young persons like classical music.


Its the same with food. If your raised on MacDonald's as a reference, then high quality food tastes awful. We like what we are used to.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

ORigel said:


> But pop culture uses brief sound clips of pieces. It's another thing to listen to even two minutes of a CM piece.


I disagree with this. Just the sound of classical music was so different so beautiful to me that it was arresting. I didn't need to hear an entire work to know I wanted to hear more of this kind of music. I think if it's in you to like it, it won't take much to get you to pursue it.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

fbjim said:


> Well, by that logic production/library music would be the most popular genre on earth, and not the type of thing that's mainly enthused about by true eccentrics.


I don't know what production/library music so I don't know what you mean.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

SanAntone said:


> Most people who are ignorant of Classical music would not recognize it in an ad, or movie trailer, since what they would perceive was just an orchestra playing. It would just be some background music accompanying a more interesting sensory experience.


They don't have to recognize what it is initially. If they were sufficiently motivated by its beauty they would find the ad on youtube and somewhere in the comments someone would reveal the name of the music. And I think they know it's classical. We all recognize classical. Just about anything played by a symphony orchestra is classical.


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## Laraine Anne Barker (8 mo ago)

eohutchinson said:


> Is it true young people hate classical music???
> There's a discussion on this in A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music


I've been down that path, having grown up with the pops of the fifties. By the time 1960 arrived I was sick of them; they seemed to be descending into mere noise. That left me floundering (life without music was NOT acceptable) especially as I already knew I didn't like jazz. Then Mum bought a radiogram (mono) and she needed something to play on it. Among what she bought I remember an LP of Hawaiian guitar music. Very nice, but all a bit of a muchness. Then along came a 10-inch LP featuring Sir John Barbirolli conducting the Hallé Orchestra in Swan Lake Suite and one of the L'Arlésienne suites. I think the image of a ballerina dancing in a tutu made her buy this; she knew no more of Swan Lake than I did. But we couldn't stop her playing it: her radiogram, her house you know. After hearing it enough times I landed up not wanting to play anything else! Very frustrating. I tried listening to 1YC (which is what New Zealand's classical music radio station was called then) but everything was just sounds to me. I had terrible listening skills, IOW, just like the youngsters of today. I joined WRC, the only way to buy LPs relatively cheaply. At the time I joined, WRC took over The Record Society's catalogue and described its repertoire as "esoteric". I immediately dashed to the dictionary. "Able to be appreciated only by the initiated" it declared. A great deal of RS's catalogue consisted of chamber and solo music. How, I asked myself, could listening to, say, Beethoven on four instruments be harder than Beethoven using 60 or more instruments? Consequently I made some terrible blunders. Bach fugues are NOT for the beginner. Even worse, played on that monstrosity Wanda Landowska fondly called a harpsichord should have been enough to turn me off both Bach and harpsichords. Bach's Musical Offering also comes under the heading of too difficult for beginners, but I bought that too (Menuhin's recording). My middle sister joined me in my new hobby and it was quite a surprise to learn that, while she continued to prefer big orchestral 19th century music, my preference landed up being chamber music and solo instruments. I'm not all that fond of the 19th century, to be honest, and can't stand anything much after that. I've often said the Devil doesn't even have one good tune. All the good tunes were stolen by the classical composers, leaving almost nothing for the 20th and 21st centuries. At the moment I am acquainting myself with the great Weiss. Wow! Why is this man's work not considered absolutely essential in any classical collection? I love Bach's lute suites, but Weiss is even better.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Open Book said:


> I disagree with this. Just the sound of classical music was so different so beautiful to me that it was arresting. I didn't need to hear an entire work to know I wanted to hear more of this kind of music. I think if it's in you to like it, it won't take much to get you to pursue it.


Most people don't respond that way to CM, and kids have short attention spans.


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## Laraine Anne Barker (8 mo ago)

SanAntone said:


> It is impossible for young people to hate Classical music. You can't hate something you ignore. But the great thing is, if they love any kind of music, eventually they will discover Classical music. And for some of them, it will become a fixture of their lives.


I consider teaching myself appreciation of Classical music is the greatest gift I ever gave myself. Or you could say it's the greatest gift my mother gave me because it was her whim in buying Barbirolli's Swan Lake and one of the L'Arlésienne that led me to classical music. I feel sorry for anybody who hasn't discovered classical music. Remember how O'Dette came to it? At 15, he played guitar in a rock band. Someone suggested that for purposes of technique he might like to take classical guitar lessons. His teacher gave him some lute transcriptions and that was the end of his career as a pop guitarist. I find it hard to believe that anyone doing what O'Dette did could possibly want to go back to his rock band (unless he had a head full of air instead of a brain).


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

I don't think young people hate CM. I have 2 children who don't mind it because I'm playing it all the time. Young people just don't get it at their tender age as they have fuel to burn and prefer Rock or Pop. I didn't have a clue what Bob Marley was wailing about until I had my 1st joint and it all suddenly fell into place. Go Bob. No doubt as they mature and slow down a little they might even appreciate it somewhat. Don't forget Classical instrument players start very young to reach their goals. I don't get Heavy Metal or Country but I dont hate it. No sireee, not me.


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

At risk of being accused of heresy, I think that Wendy Carlos did a wonderful job with Bach's Brandenburg Concertos (Switched On Bach) listened to by our youth through some headphones. I know it worked very well for me when that stuff was released back in 1968. The mixing technique employed on that album still blows me away.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

mbhaub said:


> And it's not just young people. Last Thanksgiving we had a full house and I put on some favorite chamber works. Up first, the Korngold Much Ado About Nothing suite for violin and piano. It wasn't going for five minutes when a brother in law comes into the room and yells "Why are we listening to this ***t? Put something on people like!" His wife apologized. But a young nephew offered to put some rap on. So my music was rejected by a man who is 70 and a kid who was 20. Neither will be invited again.


If I may, I believe you went about this the wrong way. I would never put upon a bunch of people of any age or ages, music where there is a 99.9999999% chance they've never heard before. If I play classical music in a group of people who most likely have a wide range of diverse musical tastes, I put on popular classical pieces (I've actually made a "popular classical" playlist). Pieces that most, if not all the people in the group will be familiar with. Most people don't mind and even some enjoy it to the point where they'll ask, "Who wrote this?" In some ways, I can't blame your family's reaction, and I certainly wouldn't "not invite" them if they're family. My family (brothers) is brutally honest with each other and we take great pleasure in busting each other's chops. If one of my brother's came in and yelled "Why are listening to this ***t?" 
1. I would know he's breaking my gonads and 
2. I would respond with something like, "Because I want to P*ss you off."

and that would be the end of it.



KevinW said:


> People around me obviously do not like people who love classical music. However, I am also glad to see that people at least respect others music choices. In my current high school nobody really express their disrespect towards me though they know I love classical music. They surely won’t welcome me if I try to straightforwardly introduce them classical music, but as long as I don’t bother them, they are fine with me. It’s no longer the 1960s and 70s when people deliberately went against and denied traditions. People today are getting more moderate and inclusive than ever, especially in my high school, so I do not worry about being disliked at all. However, I do know that many people outside of my school hate people who listen to classical music. But many classical music lovers dislike those who listen to modern music, then why isn’t the other way around problematic?


I must say, in the 51 years of my life, I have yet to meet a single person who does "not like those who love classical music." And I've traveled all over the world and met a great many people. I've met people who like and dislike every genre of music there is, but not the people who listen to those genres. I can't stand house/dj music nor heavy metal nor country, but I know plenty of wonderful people who love each of those genres. There are certain posts that I read that leave me utterly baffled. This is one of them.

V


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## Agamenon (Apr 22, 2019)

In my Hometown young people HATE Classical music. For them, this music was created by white men, in Europe, centuries ago, rooted in Middle class values.

They love hip hop, hip hop and hip hop. 
Indeed, they adore this genre as the peak of our civilization. Each hip hop song is a super masterpiece.


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

Don't forget the desire by governments to favour what brings them taxes (pop music) and hinders what costs moneys (classical music).

In the French school I attended, the secret police agent infiltrated among us tried to impose what we should have liked: what clothes, what vocabulary, which opinions, and also what music. You guess, it was pop. I didn't influence me as I already played the violin for years.

More recently, the government let music classes teach pop music at school. Just a way to create ideal consumers.


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## Rosalind Ellicott (May 21, 2020)

Sorry if this has already been said but young people listen to lots of classical music in movies and games.


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## rcarle67 (May 27, 2017)

Bulldog said:


> Hate is a strong word. I think that most young people don't appreciate or have any use for classical music. They want their own music of today.


The word hate is used so much these days it has lost its meaning. Have "most young children" ever loved classical music, Really? I doubt it. I think we have to admit that it is something most folks simply won't listen to when "popular" music, with a basic, danceable beat, is everywhere. To appreciate a Beethoven quartet takes an acquired taste.


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## rcarle67 (May 27, 2017)

Agamenon said:


> In my Hometown young people HATE Classical music. For them, this music was created by white men, in Europe, centuries ago, rooted in Middle class values.
> 
> They love hip hop, hip hop and hip hop.
> Indeed, they adore this genre as the peak of our civilization. Each hip hop song is a super masterpiece.
> i doubt very much that all the young people even know that classical music was written by white Europeans. Most people would never say that classical music is the first type of music they would listen to, not just today's young people. This website is almost 100% comprised of people who love classical music. Why be concerned about those who don't? The folks who love hip hope do not care if you don't like it. De gustibus non disputandem.


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## murphmeister (Feb 17, 2013)

Back in the early 70's I was like young adult listening to popular music, but my tastes were classical. Then, I outgrew that music and adverted to my classical training on the clarinet. I went on a two-year binge to immerse myself in classics in both music and literature. I can still recall when I first listened to the first measures of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony. I must have been as gape-jawed as were those who first heard it.

In America, we don't teach classical music which is so more abundantly varied in scope and quality. I have long said Americans do not have good taste. What other country would praise Rap which is neither music nor poetry nor good.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

ORigel said:


> Most people don't respond that way to CM, and kids have short attention spans.


I was 13 then. I guess most kids weren't and still aren't like me. The audience was much older at live classical concerts I attended while in college and I thought classical music would go extinct when they were gone. It didn't. The audience is still older but now I'm older too. The explanation must be that most people don't respond to classical music until they are no longer kids and they pick it up late in life. (Of course most people never respond to it.)


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

rcarle67 said:


> The word hate is used so much these days it has lost its meaning. Have "most young children" ever loved classical music, Really? I doubt it. I think we have to admit that it is something most folks simply won't listen to when "popular" music, with a basic, danceable beat, is everywhere. To appreciate a Beethoven quartet takes an acquired taste.


While the last sentence is generally true, I think any CM listener would enjoy the fifth movement of Beethoven's Op 131.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

murphmeister said:


> Back in the early 70's I was like young adult listening to popular music, but my tastes were classical. Then, I outgrew that music and adverted to my classical training on the clarinet. I went on a two-year binge to immerse myself in classics in both music and literature. I can still recall when I first listened to the first measures of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony. I must have been as gape-jawed as were those who first heard it.
> 
> In America, we don't teach classical music which is so more abundantly varied in scope and quality. I have long said Americans do not have good taste. What other country would praise Rap which is neither music nor poetry nor good.


I think rap takes more effort than some popular songs, at least.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

murphmeister said:


> What other country would praise Rap which is neither music nor poetry nor good.


You might like to check how many countries evidently enjoyed Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marshall_Mathers_LP


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I do not understand the obsession with "Why do so many young persons hate classical music."
Most old people hate classical music.
I play with three volunteer music groups. Most of my friends hate classical music (with the exception of the musicians that I play with). Trying to get my non-musician friends to attend concerts, even when they are free, is like trying to take candy from a baby.
At work there used to be employees trying to sell raffle tickets for their church or whatever. I would purchase the tickets. When one of groups I play with would try to raise money by selling raffle tickets, I would go to these same employees to try to sell my tickets. Even though they would not purchase the tickets the good part is that they stop harassing me about buying their tickets. They decided that they should stop trying to sell me tickets so I would not try to sell them my tickets for my dumb orchestra.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

That sounds like what I see. The good news from it may be that some young people are more open to CM than young people used to be.


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## clachat (11 mo ago)

arpeggio said:


> I do not understand the obsession with "Why do so many young persons hate classical music."
> Most old people hate classical music.
> I play with three volunteer music groups. Most of my friends hate classical music (with the exception of the musicians that I play with). Trying to get my non-musician friends to attend concerts, even when they are free, is like trying to take candy from a baby.
> At work there used to be employees trying to sell raffle tickets for their church or whatever. I would purchase the tickets. When one of groups I play with would try to raise money by selling raffle tickets, I would go to these same employees to try to sell my tickets. Even though they would not purchase the tickets the good part is that they stop harassing me about buying their tickets. They decided that they should stop trying to sell me tickets so I would not try to sell them my tickets for my dumb orchestra.


The title of the thread is a bit like tabloid.

*"Why do so many young persons hate classical music"*

Then proceeds to ask " Is it true young people hate classical music??? ". So the original question is not based on an actual premise.

Very poor quality.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

clachat said:


> The title of the thread is a bit like tabloid.
> 
> *"Why do so many young persons hate classical music"*
> 
> ...


Betteridge's Law is only half-joking, hah.


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## clachat (11 mo ago)

Why don't older people learn an instrument and form an orchestra if they so love CM. They have so much time on their hands to muse on random unsubstantiated thoughts.

Do older people have a lot of time on their hands?

likewise j/k


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

clachat said:


> The title of the thread is a bit like tabloid.
> 
> *"Why do so many young persons hate classical music"*
> 
> ...


The OP started this thread to promote his vanity-published book, _A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music._


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## Chibi Ubu (11 mo ago)

ORigel said:


> The OP started this thread to promote his vanity-published book, _A Young Person's Guide to Classical Music._


Click bait, eh?


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I think I’m qualified to answer this. I’m young myself and I have friends that know that I love classical music and I introduced them to some works. I can already say that young people don’t hate classical music. They often just haven’t been exposed to it so they don’t know what they’re missing. And for some they like it but it’s so different that they don’t really know what to do with it.


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## Another Howard (Nov 10, 2018)

Early exposure to all music is key. Aged 7, 70 years ago, I was given a gramophone, Mozart 40, Debussy Images and some thirties British dance bands. Dad built a big majestic sounding wireless and the family shared Henry Wood Proms, Edmundo Ross, the BBC Concert Orchestra... I loved it all, including the later arrival of Bill Haley, Presley, Buddy Holly and his wonderful backing strings. Next of course The Beatles - superb musicians. None of it hinged on image or celebrity, just great music.
But school? Oh dear. The Planets, only, played on a dreadful portable. Aversion therapy, but at least we had an actual music teacher. Now, in UK, many schools have no such a person, no instruments and unfortunately a philistine government that cannot see the huge importance of encouraging arts of any kind. I agree with others in this thread: big music has an unfortunate image of snobbery, inaccessibilty and a further barrier in poor sound reproduction.
I'm willling to bet that a full sized orchestra playing some carefully chosen classics in an informal venue would seize quite a lot of the young by the ears. And I mean young. Around ten?


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## Great Uncle Frederick (Mar 17, 2021)

Beethoven123 said:


> This is actually exactly why I voted no; as the people in my school are totally unaware of classical music. I don’t think they hate it, they just don’t care for it or have no experience of it.


'I hate classical music' is perhaps a not very subtle way of saying 'I don't know much - or anything - about classical music and don't feel qualified to discuss it'.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Poor parenting, with the middle-classes no longer being aspirational.

Men and women in their forties and fifties are too busy dressing up as teenagers and trying to out-woke their own kids, to ever think of taking them to a ballet or the opera.

People should only be allowed to have children once they can prove that they are both intellectually and financially capable of providing for and developing that child.

There are currently 6 billion more people than there should be on planet earth. We need a gardener… ✂


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Poor parenting, with the middle-classes no longer being aspirational.
> 
> Men and women in their forties and fifties are too busy dressing up as teenagers and trying to out-woke their own kids, to ever think of taking them to a ballet or the opera.
> 
> ...


Bold of you to say that, but I agree, somewhat.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

Just been reading a short book by (Scotland's best known composer) James Macmillan. It's interesting that he says that when he was growing up in a poor Ayrshire mining village, serious music was everywhere -- miners played in bands and orchestras and the idea these days that bourgeois classical music should not be inflicted on the working class would have been scoffed at then. I can still just about remember the days when an orchestral concert audience was pretty mixed in terms of age and background-- not any more. The lack of live music in public life and draconian cutbacks in music funding in general,, particularly in schools and particularly with reference to the UK, must be part of the reason. Another is the soundbyte culture where no-one ever has time for anything any more.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Virtually all the "worker's movements" in the first half of the 20th century were very much in favor of expanding bourgeois culture to the underprivileged classes. This was the case both in the West and later in the Eastern socialist countries. My hypothesis is that a combination of factors changed this in the last 50 years. Cutting back general musical education, a huge expansion of mass media powered popular culture, arrogance of a subset of highbrow culture producers who reduced or cut "middlebrow" stuff like operetta and alienated a part of the audience with provocative stagings of classics (because if you do a naive cozy/spooky Freischütz or an "affirmative" Meistersinger, you are Riefenstahl or worse...). And, probably not least a considerable part of both academia and broadly speaking leftists enthusiastically embracing counterculture (regardless of its instant commercialization) and denigrating traditional high culture.
Until the middle of the 20th century the feedback looped worked to bring more people, especially the economically upwardly mobile into contact and appreciation of high culture which in turn strengthened its status. As soon as high culture becomes mostly irrelevant and no longer accompanies socio-economic high status as it used to, the feedback works in the opposite direction. High culture becomes a niche for nerds and freaks and some staid remnants of the bourgeois culture of decades ago.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Great Uncle Frederick said:


> 'I hate classical music' is perhaps a not very subtle way of saying 'I don't know much - or anything - about classical music and don't feel qualified to discuss it'.


Or another way of putting it would be don't confuse indifference with hate. The former is passive, while the latter is an active emotion requiring familiarity.


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## John O (Jan 16, 2021)

In my school sixth form (16-18 year olds pre university) 40 ago , out of 60 pupils about 6 liked or were interested in classical music. And school music lessons from 11-14 were appalling.


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